# UPN, WB to combine to form new network



## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

UPN, WB to combine to form new network

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8FB5ILG0.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down&chan=db


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Interesting, I wonder what they'll do in markets that have both networks. Which channel gets to broadcast the new network?


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## Wayne (Jul 1, 2003)

From Yahoo! Finance:

"The combination of Tribune's 16 major market stations and the 12 CBS-owned UPN major market affiliates give The CW instant coverage in 48% of the country. The remainder of the network's distribution system will be a combination of selected current UPN and The WB stations. The full distribution of the new network is expected to exceed 95% of the country."

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060124/nytu143.html?.v=43


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I wonder if we will lose our ATSC UPN sub-channel in favor of the LP NTSC station.
That would be my guess. (South Bend IN Market)


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

tsmacro said:


> Interesting, I wonder what they'll do in markets that have both networks. Which channel gets to broadcast the new network?


here is what we know so far from the press release

The 16 Tribune affiliated stations will include New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Washington, D.C., Houston, Miami, Denver, St. Louis, Portland, Indianapolis, San Diego, Hartford, New Orleans and Albany. The 12 CBS Station Group television markets will include Philadelphia, San Francisco, Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Seattle, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, West Palm Beach, Norfolk, Oklahoma City and Providence. Together, these top two station groups cover the top 13 television markets, 20 of the top 25 television markets and have a total coverage area of more than 48% of the country.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Hmmm... In my neck of the woods, the UPN affiliate has been around for many years longer than the WB affiliate. Way back in the day, our UPN was the NBC affiliate.

However, both WB and UPN in my area are owned by Sinclair Broadcasting... and it is the WB station that carries their national news and has been upgraded to HD. My UPN is digital, but has not been HD.

So if I'm guessing, for my area, the UPN station would get somehow merged into the WB and the WB station would be the one to survive... unless Sinclair decided to sell the UPN station and it became an independent station... I would guess that it will just fade away.

Interesting news.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

In our market (Cincinnati) WB is on a full power station and UPN is on a low power station (a station that DISH Network doesn't carry and Time Warner only carries part time). There is no question in this market that the new network will be on the full power station (WSTR, ch. 64). I suspect that the LP station (WBQC, ch. 38) will become an independent. At one time they were the WB affiliate (they even changed their call letters to reflect that) but became UPN when WB moved to the other station because the other station was carried full time by the local cable companies.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The affilliate issues will iron themselves out over the next few months. In markets where one affiliate owns both it's an easy solution ... they just have to figure out what to do with the extra channel (they will find something). In other markets there may be an affiliate with a longer contract or better signal. Today is day one ... plenty of time for this to shake out.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Maybe the stations losing WB or UPN affiliation can strike a deal to carry Lifetime programming!!!!!!!!


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## Wayne (Jul 1, 2003)

I feel sorry for Tony when he has to update the Dish Channel Chart this fall to reflect stations going from UPN or The WB to The CW or to Independent status. Also some stations may also change call letters.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

Link said:


> Maybe the stations losing WB or UPN affiliation can strike a deal to carry Lifetime programming!!!!!!!!


Or they could strike deals with ABC, CBS, NBC, or FOX. Some of them could become independents, and others could go on public assistance (PBS).


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## DTC mac (Oct 23, 2005)

Sadly between the two entities they do not have even half a network's worth of shows any intelligent person would admit to watching.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Fifty Caliber said:


> Or they could strike deals with ABC, CBS, NBC, or FOX. Some of them could become independents, and others could go on public assistance (PBS).


Or a smaller network like Urban America TV or America One could use this opportunity to expand to bigger areas.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It will certainly give "the CW" the SAME STATUS as ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX when it comes to being offered as distant networks (and requiring waivers from the local CW station to get a distant CW station).

E* was warming up WB "national" channels for east and west. (IIRC D* already has them?) These could easily become the new CW network channels.

And if the 5th network is good enough we'll see it in HD via E* along with the other four they plan on carrying in each market.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

This is a classic study of two programming failures being combined to create one larger programming failure -- two sinking life rafts lashed together, as it were.


CW = Can't Work


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Right now, the classic way to see how Fox will operate their UPN stations (WWOR NY, KCOP LA, WPWR Chicago, WDCA Washington) is to look no further than the Dallas station KDFI. Fox has owned this independent station for a few years now, and it is still thriving.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I only watch one WB show... and no UPN shows... I don't think I ever watched more than 1 or 2 per network and that was when there were shows that had spinoffs also on (like Buffy/Angel and the Star Treks of recent years)... so my viewing patterns don't change with the merger.

However, it is at least possible that the two combined have a better chance at being a solid 5th network OTA, vs being fledgling 5th and 6th separately.

One thing that really propelled FOX was back when they bid for the NFC football games many years ago, and next year they are going to have the BCS college football championship game... so the new "CW" station could learn perhaps from that and get themselves in the bidding wars for some of the popular passtimes when they come up for bids.

To be fair and not slam WB/UPN too much... I really don't watch anything on NBC. FOX I watch only a couple of shows, can't think of anything besides sports that I watch on ABC... and CBS is for sports and a couple of shows... so to be fair, they don't have to come too far to get about the same percentage of my viewing time as the biggies do.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Buffy and Enterprise were the only UPN shows I watched. When they killed Star Trek, I swore them off. I haven't seen a UPN show since.

The WB has a few good shows, Smallville, Charmed, and even Beauty and the Geek 2 is watchable.... The rest of the teen angst shows I can do without......


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

CW = See Dubya?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Carrier Wave ... The most exciting thing they can put on the air.

I wonder if Leno will crack the joke ... "Now NBC can be the FIFTH place network".


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## lacruz (Feb 24, 2005)

James Long said:


> It will certainly give "the CW" the SAME STATUS as ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX when it comes to being offered as distant networks (and requiring waivers from the local CW station to get a distant CW station).
> 
> E* was warming up WB "national" channels for east and west. (IIRC D* already has them?) These could easily become the new CW network channels.
> 
> And if the 5th network is good enough we'll see it in HD via E* along with the other four they plan on carrying in each market.


Well, I guess the KTLA, WPIX, & KWGN Superstations will be gone on E* then. Perhaps WSBK & WWOR will be unaffected and will remain Superstations. Weren't those 2 Superstations years ago, before they became UPN? I know WWOR was on cable at my house back in the 80s.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Yes, they have been superstations long before WB and UPN came into existence, they weren't created just so people could get those networks. Though, the WWOR that was on cable was a different version that went by the name WOR (WWOR's old call letters before the now defunct RKO Radio moved them to New Jersey). WOR Cable had a mostly different programming schedule than the main WWOR. Similar to the differences between WGN-TV and Superstation WGN.


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## lacruz (Feb 24, 2005)

Very interesting 35 minute press conference on this topic that you can view in streaming video in its entirety on WB11 website:

http://wb11.trb.com/

See the vidoe link a third of the way down the page.

Several questions asked above are ansered by watching the press conference & hearing the answers directly from CBS, WB, & Tribune CEOs...kind of like Charlie Chat, but far more intelligent.

Some points of note: In September, WWOR in New York will become an Independant station again. (According to UPN 9 news tonight, they will keep their local news & other syndicated programming; they are owned by Fox). Per Les Moonves (CEO of CBS), the contract with the Fox owned UPN stations is up at the end of August, hence the September changeover. Moonves had no information about what would happen to non-Tribune owned WB Stations or non-CBS owned UPN stations. That would be up to the station owners.

Something from the WB11 story on their website:

"Tribune owns and operates 26 TV stations in 22 markets across the country, including 19 affiliated with The WB Network. Under the agreement, 16 of those stations will join the new network:

WPIX-TV, New York; KTLA-TV, Los Angeles; WGN-TV, Chicago; WLVI-TV, Boston; KDAF-TV, Dallas; WBDC-TV, Washington, D.C.; KHWB-TV, Houston; WBZL-TV, Miami; KWGN-TV, Denver; KPLR-TV, St. Louis; KWBP-TV, Portland; WTTV-TV, Indianapolis; KSWB-TV, San Diego; WTXX-TV, Hartford; WNOL-TV, New Orleans; and WEWB-TV, Albany.

"Tribune stations will serve as the major market distribution backbone for what will be a strong network competitor," said John Reardon, Tribune Broadcasting president. "The viewers and advertisers in the markets we serve will benefit."

Tribune and CBS own overlapping WB and UPN affiliates in seven markets: Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, Miami and New Orleans. Tribune will be the affiliate in Boston, Dallas, Miami and New Orleans, and CBS will be the affiliate in Philadelphia, Atlanta and Seattle.

"We're confident that the scale of our television group will enable us to continue to acquire quality syndicated programming, both first-run and off-network, for our three independent stations," said Reardon."


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lacruz said:


> Well, I guess the KTLA, WPIX, & KWGN Superstations will be gone on E* then. Perhaps WSBK & WWOR will be unaffected and will remain Superstations. Weren't those 2 Superstations years ago, before they became UPN? I know WWOR was on cable at my house back in the 80s.


Not necessarily. WGN was one of the original "Superstations" but they choose to put up an 'out of market' feed sans WB and have their local station air WB programming.

If the superstation goes independent (not on "the CW") it won't be an issue and if it's a network owned station they MAY write their affiliation agreement to include an automatic waiver from all affiliates (ie: if you want to carry CW in your community you must allow the network to have CW on these Superstations).

BTW: KSWB-TV SanDiego and WBZL-TV Miami are the "WB" W/E stations lying in wait.


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## Jon Ellis (Dec 28, 2003)

The main change from all of this will be branding, not programming. UPN is only on 12 hours a week, WB 13...there are 168 hours in the week. The major problem for all of the former UPN and WB affiliates is that they suddenly need to come up with a new identity and graphics by fall.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I heard a clip of the announcement on our NBC affiliate late news ...
"We're going to call it the CW ... C for CBS, W for Warner Brothers.
We couldn't call it the WC for obvious reasons."​Our local WB station is WMWB ... WB25. Lots of WB's in the callsign list!


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## joblo (Dec 11, 2003)

lacruz said:


> Well, I guess the KTLA, WPIX, & KWGN Superstations will be gone on E* then. Perhaps WSBK & WWOR will be unaffected and will remain Superstations. Weren't those 2 Superstations years ago, before they became UPN? I know WWOR was on cable at my house back in the 80s.


"Nationally distributed superstations" (NDS) are defined in the law based on the station's satellite distribution and network affiliation status at various points in the 1990s. There are six stations that meet the definition: WWOR, WPIX, KTLA, WGN, WSBK, and KWGN.

These stations are exempt from out-of-market retrans consent requirements and exempt from the two-station and unserved household limits that apply to networks; and they will remain so unless and until they become affiliated with a network that met the definition of a network on January 1, 1995, or until the applicable provision sunsets in 2009 or is changed by subsequent legislation.

In other words, it doesn't matter whether or not UPN, WB, or CW currently meet the definition of a network, because they didn't qualify as networks in 1995, and that's all that counts in the definition of an NDS.

Syndex restrictions, however, do apply to an NDS, which is why not everyone currently qualifies.

Bottom line: the merge of UPN and WB should have no effect on the distribution of superstations except insofar as affiliates of the new net are motivated to demand syndex protection where they previously did not.


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## joblo (Dec 11, 2003)

lacruz said:


> Moonves had no information about what would happen to non-Tribune owned WB Stations or non-CBS owned UPN stations.
> [...]
> Tribune and CBS own overlapping WB and UPN affiliates in seven markets: Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, Miami and New Orleans. Tribune will be the affiliate in Boston, Dallas, Miami and New Orleans, and CBS will be the affiliate in Philadelphia, Atlanta and Seattle.


Was anything said about the other stations in their overlapping markets? Do they plan to sell or trade these to acquire stations in markets where they don't have coverage?


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## lacruz (Feb 24, 2005)

joblo said:


> Was anything said about the other stations in their overlapping markets? Do they plan to sell or trade these to acquire stations in markets where they don't have coverage?


No, they did not get that specific, station-by-station, city-by-city, they mainly referred to NYC as the example, because that's where the press conference took place. I'm watching Morning Show on WSBK at 8am to see if they mention anything about it in their news. Will post here if they do.


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## lacruz (Feb 24, 2005)

joblo said:


> Was anything said about the other stations in their overlapping markets? Do they plan to sell or trade these to acquire stations in markets where they don't have coverage?


On UPN 38/Boston news this morning, all they said was that while the network programming will be changing on Channel 38, the Morning Show (their 8-9am news) will be staying on the air. The CW will be on the current Boston WB channel in the fall.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Greg Bimson said:


> Right now, the classic way to see how Fox will operate their UPN stations (WWOR NY, KCOP LA, WPWR Chicago, WDCA Washington) is to look no further than the Dallas station KDFI. Fox has owned this independent station for a few years now, and it is still thriving.


I looked at the KDFI schedule and it is already almost the same as my local Fox owned UPN KUTP. The only major difference is they have Matlock on during primetime.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

The news conference described which station will be the CW affilate in several cities not just NY. The list is elsewhere in the thread. It did not list every city and nothing has been said about what happens to the odd man out. 

According to DCRTV.com Fox was not even informed of the development. So I think that many stations have no idea what's next.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

They will probably end up making deals with specific broadcast companies or choose the one that has the higher amount of viewers in the other markets, or in some cases, take the one that has a full power station over the one that is just being broadcasted on a low power station or a digital subchannel. They might also give priority to those that are already broadcasting in HD in the markets that have UPN in HD, but not WB, or vice versa.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Fifty Caliber said:


> Or they could strike deals with ABC, CBS, NBC, or FOX. Some of them could become independents, and others could go on public assistance (PBS).


I can't help but think that markets with a UPN or WB affiliate don't already have all of the big four represented. Then again, there are some areas that subscribe to the regional superstation model that might be looking to make a break.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I am not sure that a commercial station can affiliate itself with PBS. I would agree that the WB and UPN had few if any stations that would be attractive to the Big Four. Anything is possible I suppose.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

So what happens in NYC? Does WWOR go back to being an independant channel? Does WPIX? WPIX has better ratings and has the Mets free games.

Ow, my head hurts.

I'm hoping that this doesn't kill Charmed. All of UPNs shows could go away and I could care less..... I've blackballed them from my PVR since they killed Enterprise.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

> So what happens in NYC? Does WWOR go back to being an independant channel? Does WPIX? WPIX has better ratings and has the Mets free games.


As has been stated on page 1, WPIX is getting the Network, WWOR is going independent.


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## jfraz (Sep 4, 2003)

In Jackson Mississippi we have a new UPN affiliate that is coming on the air this week. They wrested UPN from a group of stations that was carrying it on a low power station. This group of stations owns the local Fox and WB. They will probably have the last laugh leaving this new station without a network.


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## XXCCXX (Nov 18, 2004)

How Bout Hbo Having A 19 Year Old Movie On

They Say As You Get Older You Start Losing Your Memory 
That Would Be Great Amc And Tcm Would Be Like World 
Premier Channels


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