# SWM 8 and DECA Broad Band Adapter



## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

I am getting ready to install SWM 8 and use DECA instead of my home network. Does the DECA Broad Band adapter count toward the number of supported tuners?
I will be connecting 4 HD DVR's (8 total tuners) so want to be sure this will work.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

No the deca will only count toward the max number of decas in a deca cloud (ie max of 16) not towards the max number of tuners

so you're good you'll be at 5 decas and 8 tuners, which should work fine
I'd make sure the SWM8 is green label otherwise I'd put a BSF inbetween the splitter than the SWM and not use the SWM2 port.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Fair question, but DECA and SWiM have no interaction, other than the SWiM frees up the band that DECA uses.


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

Awesome... Thanks Guys that is what I figured just wanted to be sure.
And yes the SWM8 is green labeled


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

ok
as the SWM8 basicly has a built in splitter I'd use 2x 2ways to feed the 4 DHDVR's

then a CCK-W as the CCK-W can do passthrough so you wouldn't have to add another splitter, also a CCK-w can be used in wired or wireless mode

if you use the plain CCK then you'll need another 2way splitter to connect it to the coax network

also be sure that all of the splitters are green label and if the PI is on the reciver side of a splitter that the "to LNB" port goes to a red port on a splitter, if the PI is upstream of a splitter then just besure it goes to the SWM1 port

also be sure the PI is not on a switched outlet

btw one tip on the DECA's I've found so far is connect the "to SWM" side before the "to reciver" side


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

Dark thanks for all the tips!

I already have a DECABB so I will be using that. I have (2) 4-way green label splitters. My plan was to use one of them for 3 of the DVR's and the DECABB and SWM 2 for the 4th DVR.
Will that work?
Or I could put 2 DVR's and the DECABB on a 4-way from SWM 1 and 2 DVR's on the other 4-way on SWM 2.


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

I also plan to put the PI between the SWM8 and the splitter.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Your two posts look like they'll work. One question since DECA is being used is does this SWM8 have a green sticker/label? If so, you're good to go.
If not, then you'll need to add a bandstop filter and can't use both SWM outputs.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

O2BRich said:


> Dark thanks for all the tips!
> 
> I already have a DECABB so I will be using that. I have (2) 4-way green label splitters. My plan was to use one of them for 3 of the DVR's and the DECABB and SWM 2 for the 4th DVR.
> Will that work?
> Or I could put 2 DVR's and the DECABB on a 4-way from SWM 1 and 2 DVR's on the other 4-way on SWM 2.


on the SWM8 the SWM1 and SWM2 ports are essentialy 2 ports of a splitter unlike the SWM16 where the 2 ports are completely differant sets of tuners

with 4x DVR's and a CCK/CCK-w what I'd do to minimize signal loss is get 2x 2ways and a CCK-W (the CCK-W has a passthrough so you can avoid using an extra splitter) this would give the least signal loss possible

though yes using a 4way and a direct cable can give you all the connections needed but by looking at the total splitts the stuff off the 4way would technicaly have a lower signal than the other


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DarkLogix said:


> on the SWM8 the SWM1 and SWM2 ports are essentialy 2 ports of a splitter unlike the SWM16 where the 2 ports are completely differant sets of tuners
> 
> with 4x DVR's and a CCK/CCK-w what I'd do to minimize signal loss is get 2x 2ways and a CCK-W (the CCK-W has a passthrough so you can avoid using an extra splitter) this would give the least signal loss possible
> 
> though yes using a 4way and a direct cable can give you all the connections needed but by looking at the total splitts the stuff off the 4way would technicaly have a lower signal than the other


You haven't verified if the SWM8 has a bandstop filter internally, which if it doesn't means this configuration won't work with DECA.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

veryoldschool said:


> You haven't verified if the SWM8 has a bandstop filter internally, which if it doesn't means this configuration won't work with DECA.


Yes he said its green label


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DarkLogix said:


> Yes he said its green label


Missed that.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

O2BRich said:


> Awesome... Thanks Guys that is what I figured just wanted to be sure.
> And yes the SWM8 is green labeled


VOS as stated here the SWM8 is green label so it has a BSF in it


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Your two posts look like they'll work. One question since DECA is being used is does this SWM8 have a green sticker/label? If so, you're good to go.
> If not, then you'll need to add a bandstop filter and can't use both SWM outputs.


Thanks VOS

All the parts I have are green labeled.


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

DarkLogix said:


> on the SWM8 the SWM1 and SWM2 ports are essentialy 2 ports of a splitter unlike the SWM16 where the 2 ports are completely differant sets of tuners
> 
> with 4x DVR's and a CCK/CCK-w what I'd do to minimize signal loss is get 2x 2ways and a CCK-W (the CCK-W has a passthrough so you can avoid using an extra splitter) this would give the least signal loss possible
> 
> though yes using a 4way and a direct cable can give you all the connections needed but by looking at the total splitts the stuff off the 4way would technicaly have a lower signal than the other


Makes since Thanks Dark.

I think I will use the 2 splitters with 2 DVR's each.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> You haven't verified if the SWM8 has a bandstop filter internally, *which if it doesn't means this configuration won't work with DECA.*


Or should we better say a more temperate "might work, but not recommended?" 

As I've always been mindful of bobnielson's setup of an (obviously non-green label  ) old SWiM-5 module left over from his field testing days which passes the DECA signal between ports 1 & 2 without issue.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

HoTat2 said:


> Or should we better say a more temperate "might work, but not recommended?"
> 
> As I've always been mindful of bobnielson's setup of an (obviously non-green label  ) old SWiM-5 module left over from his field testing days which passes the DECA signal between ports 1 & 2 without issue.


I think the issue isn't so much about passing the signal but that Deca's signal is very powerful and could damage the SWM if the SWM doesn't have a BSF to block the DECA signal from the SWM chips

so although it could work on non-green label SWM units without a BSF it might not work for as long or as reliablily and with non-green label splitters the signal might not pass between outputs as well as it should for a quality setup


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Or should we better say a more temperate "might work, but not recommended?"
> 
> As I've always been mindful of bobnielson's setup of an (obviously non-green label  ) old SWiM-5 module left over from his field testing days which passes the DECA signal between ports 1 & 2 without issue.





DarkLogix said:


> I think the issue isn't so much about passing the signal but that Deca's signal is very powerful and could damage the SWM if the SWM doesn't have a BSF to block the DECA signal from the SWM chips
> 
> so although it could work on non-green label SWM units without a BSF it might not work for as long or as reliablily and with non-green label splitters the signal might not pass between outputs as well as it should for a quality setup


I don't think it's a damaging issue, but instead it's a distorting and/or leveling issue with the AGC.
This type of issue could be so elusive that I think it's better to simply "follow the rules", and not even suggest using a SWM8 that doesn't have the internal BSF with DECA.

If anyone wants to do it that way, it will be on their shoulders if there is any problem.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

DarkLogix said:


> I think the issue isn't so much about passing the signal but that Deca's signal is very powerful and could damage the SWM if the SWM doesn't have a BSF to block the DECA signal from the SWM chips
> 
> so although it could work on non-green label SWM units without a BSF it might not work for as long or as reliablily and with non-green label splitters the signal might not pass between outputs as well as it should for a quality setup


Yeah ...

That's what I meant to imply by "without issue" as to interference with either the DECA signal for whole home, or the satellite SWM signals.

But you and VOS are correct in that it is better to simply "follow the rules" and never even suggest to someone asking for advice here to do things like that.

Was just wondering though if its really proper to quote something as dogma that it "won't work" only to have some other poster(s) come along and contradict it by claiming they have done such and such in their installation and its working fine.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Was just wondering though if its really proper to quote something as dogma that it "won't work" only to have some other poster(s) come along and contradict it by claiming they have done such and such in their installation and its working fine.


My use of "won't work" was referring to using both ports of the SWM8 AND a BSF.

Now what also comes to mind is...
With a SWM8 that doesn't have a BSF internally, "I wonder" what the DECA loss is between ports?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> My use of "won't work" was referring to using both ports of the SWM8 AND a BSF.


OK, my apologies, but I was basing your "won't work" in post #10 off what you wrote in your prior post #8 to the OP.



> Your two posts look like they'll work. *One question since DECA is being used is does this SWM8 have a green sticker/label? If so, you're good to go.
> If not, then you'll need to add a bandstop filter and can't use both SWM outputs.*





> ... Now what also comes to mind is...
> With a SWM8 that doesn't have a BSF internally, "I wonder" what the DECA loss is between ports?


I'm sure Bob has posted his PHY Level numbers somewhere before, but I'm not about to go through the effort of searching for their burial locations in the forum at the moment.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> OK, my apologies, but I was basing your "won't work" in post #10 off what you wrote in your prior post #8 to the OP.


 Maybe it's because I know what I'm posting, but there isn't a discrepancy between these posts. 
If you have to use an external BSF, you can't use both outputs.


> I'm sure Bob has posted his PHY Level numbers somewhere before, but I'm not about to go through the effort of searching for their burial locations in the forum at the moment.


PHY levels alone would be meaningless, as one would need to section the loss to the SWM5 that he has, to read the loss of the non green labeled SWM5/8s.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe it's because I know what I'm posting, but there isn't a discrepancy between these posts.
> If you have to use an external BSF, you can't use both outputs.
> 
> PHY levels alone would be meaningless, as one would need to section the loss to the SWM5 that he has, to read the loss of the non green labeled SWM5/8s.


The numbers I posted for my SWM5 were quite a while ago and I don't recall what they were, but they appeared to be acceptable (or marginally so) for WHDVR use without a BSF. The SWM8s could be somewhat different, depending on the internal layout (I don't know if the SWM5 went beyond the field testing but don't think there any green label versions). It would be interesting if someone had the equipment to measure the return loss of both SWM5s and non-green label SWM8s at the MRV frequency range.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

bobnielsen said:


> The numbers I posted for my SWM5 were quite a while ago and I don't recall what they were, but they appeared to be acceptable (or marginally so) for WHDVR use without a BSF. The SWM8s could be somewhat different, depending on the internal layout (I don't know if the SWM5 went beyond the field testing but don't think there any green label versions). It would be interesting if someone had the equipment to measure the return loss of both SWM5s and non-green label SWM8s at the MRV frequency range.


I don't think return loss is the issue, but since a non modified splitter has about 23-25 dB isolation [loss] between the outputs, but if a BSF in on the input, the loss is "merely" the reverse insertion loss + the forward insertion loss. Now without the BSF, what does the DECA reflect off of?


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