# Should standard install include in-wall cable runs?



## Patrick G. (Sep 10, 2002)

I just bought a new house and had DirecTV installed (new customer). The previous owners already had a Phase III dish on the roof, so I just needed an additional wire run to my 2-tuner Tivo. The other 2 receivers went in rooms that already had jacks. The cable that was already in place in the main room runs thru the walls -- from the satellite, under the eve's trough, into the attic and down the wall to the back of the TV. But when my installer came out to do this new service install, he ran the 2nd wire (for the 2-tuner Tivo), down the back of the house (he stapled the wire), and then drilled a hole straight thru to the living room, and then ran the wire in along the wall to the back of the TV. Now, I want it redone, but he claims he doesn't have the tools to do it, nor is that part of the standard install. Regardless, I want it done, so who can I call to do this?


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## PSB (Oct 4, 2002)

It was not part of a basic install (www.basicinstall.com) but its the least he could have done since every thing else was in place! But if did not have the tools and has never done "wall fishing" maybe just as well he never done it! A good place to find an independant installer is...... www.dbsinstall.com

All he would have needed to do was remove the face plate, connect dual coax to the existing single run and pull everything back the way it came, but its easier said than done! Good Luck!


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

If I was you I'd do it myself, the main thing is to measure all distances, figure out where you want your wall plate and go from there. It's not that hard, and you don't have to worry about someone drilling a hole threw your ceiling. I'd just run your new cable along the other two cables (enter the house in the same place,) then run it over to the wall you want it at, drill a hole threw your wall caps big enough to feed the cable, either get a wall chain, or get a flexible rod to help feed it, or just feed the cable threw your hole(if there is no insulation, like when your working with a inside wall and not a outside wall.) and pull it out the wall!


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## Van (May 4, 2004)

Asuming that all you have to do is atach the dual coax to the existing single coax and pull is completely foolish, in most houses built in the last 10 years the coax runs go from the basement all the way up to the attic and then across to the walls they are to go down in and the coax runs are stapled into place wich means that you wont get the new coax down that way. 

Pay an electrician to fish the coax for you, I dont recommend you do it yourself if youve never done it, and you should have told him to stop before the damage was already done, mark this one up to a learning experience though. Wall fishing is not considered a part of any standard dish installation as is the same for any cable television provider. The amount of time required for a wall fish can vry wildly from 15 mins to several hours and you can never fully know what is inside a wall even with a stud finder. Your looking at about $60 an hour to have it done by a pro with a one hour minimum.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Van said:


> Asuming that all you have to do is atach the dual coax to the existing single coax and pull is completely foolish, in most houses built in the last 10 years the coax runs go from the basement all the way up to the attic and then across to the walls they are to go down in and the coax runs are stapled into place wich means that you wont get the new coax down that way.
> QUOTE]
> 
> The reason I stated what I stated is because in Patricks post he states that Quote, "The cable that was already in place in the main room runs thru the walls -- from the satellite, under the eve's trough, into the attic and down the wall to the back of the TV.", therefore what I recommended to him would be correct, I agree you can not simply expect that to be the case, but when the original post states where the cable is, it's pretty simple.


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## Van (May 4, 2004)

Right but there is a strong possibility that the direct lines were barreled directly into the existing lines in his house wich tends to be the case with most sub contractor jobs. Rule of thumb is that if you take the wall plate off down stairs and then atach a 20 ft length of string and then go up to the attic and tug on that line thats going to that room if the line stops after a few inches to a few feet or does not move at all then its most likely tacked into place. Its also possible that the original owner/builder ran the coax lines in prep for the direct set up, I'd be interested to see if the coax is even grounded.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2004)

Guys, I Install For A Living And You Don't Have To Listen To Me But, It's Called A 12ft. Flex Bit. This Is The Key To Wall Fishes. Guaranteed, If You Go Down To Home Depot And Pick One Up, You Will Be Able To Do A Wall Fish Even If You Never Even Seen A Wall, In 45 Mins. Tops. All You Have To Do Is Carefully Drill A Hole In Your Dry Wall At Wall Plate Level, And Gently Slide That Old Bit Up The Wall. !!!advised To Check The Top Plate Before You Do Anything, And Make Sure There Is No Electrical Wiring In The Way. Also A Good Tip To Go Between Two Studs Where There Is No Electrical Wiring Coming Out The Top. If There Is Some, Just Go Up Between The Next Two Studs. Now Since There Might Be Some Running Along The Top Plate, And There Probably Is, Grab Some Pliers And Pull The Staples So You Can Pull The Electric Aside. Now Go Back Down Stairs And Gently Push The Bit Up The Wall, Because There Might Be Some Electric Going Through The Studs Sideways. Once Your Bit Hits The Bottom Of The Top Plate, Just Drill And If Your Attic Space Is Real Short Between The Roof And The Top Plate, Be Real Careful You Don't Put That Bit Through The Roof Itself. I Know Someone Who Did Just That, And Although It Sucks For The Customer, It Was Actually A Pretty Damn Funny Story. Now These Bits Come With A Handy Dandy Hole In The Center Of The Bit, So You Can Take Your Coax And Peel Back Enough Of The Shielding To Stick The Center Conducter Right Through The Hole In The Bit And Twist The Conductor Around The Bit So It'll Hold. Go Back Down Stairs And Pull Your Coax Down The Wall. Sorry I Forgot Earlier, Also When You Feed That Bit Up The Wall Be Careful To Not Mistake The Drywall In The Next Room For The Top Plate. That Would Be Pretty Corny. And Once You're Done Tack The Electrical Wire Staples Back Down To The Top Plate So The County Inspectors Don't Come Over And Sniff It Out.and To Answer The Theme Question. If The Installer Is Is Pro Enough To Have A Flex Bit And Has A Good Heart For Someone, Especially A Poor Customer Who Can Barely Afford Dish Or Direct Or Cable, He Probably Wouldn't Charge For The Damn Wall Fish. But You Should Offer Him A 6-pack Of Beer Or If You Got The Money, A Twenty Dollar Tip.


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## SouthernSky (Jul 15, 2003)

I don't believe I've ever seen the "standard install" house pictured in DirecTV and DISH manuals. I don't think it even exists. 

Still, some installation companies are trying to get installers to do wall fishes and pole mounts as part of a standard install. I won't work for them.

Sure, we get to a job and some are easy. Some aren't so easy. The installation companies say "it average out in the end" which I also don't believe. I think all installers know the truth -- we always end up doing extra work just to get the job done and not take the travel and income loss. If it's too extensive, we talk with the customer about the additional work costs and even rescheduling if we know it will take more time.

I have run into many installs where wall fishes were impossible because of things like heating systems installed over the wall plate preventing access, cathedral and tray ceilings not permitting access to outside walls, horizontal blocking in walls (especially near fireplaces and light switches) and other barriers. 

Most times, a simple explanation to the customer and recommending a solution leads to understanding. He/she can make his decision from there.


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## dishnet520 (Jun 15, 2004)

Tom Tech -- I Don't believe I have ever seen a 12' Flex-Bit. We use 6' Flex-Bits all the time, but a 12', c'mon get real.


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## bolco (Jun 11, 2002)

TOM TECH. said:


> Guys, I Install For A Liv......enty Dollar Tip.


Wow Dude, Your Caps Finger Has To Be Hurting Bad!


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## amit5roy5 (Mar 4, 2004)

My installer was going to do something really ugly which I could have done. I yelled at him and got him to do the installation the way I want to.  But at the end, I have him a 45 dollar tip.


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## dishsystems (Jun 21, 2004)

Dish Network corporate includes wall fishes for its own sales or for retailer certificate sales.Even dnsc subcontractors and dish rrp installers are required to fish walls for free.Directv depends on who the customer uses.Ironwood will fish a wall for free.they are a major contractor for dtv.Retailers for dish and directv will set their own prices for wall fishing.Since the 522/322 rcvrs have come out most jobs have needed at least one wall fish.


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## uncouthdude (Jun 22, 2004)

dishsystems said:


> Dish Network corporate includes wall fishes for its own sales or for retailer certificate sales.Even dnsc subcontractors and dish rrp installers are required to fish walls for free.Directv depends on who the customer uses.Ironwood will fish a wall for free.they are a major contractor for dtv.Retailers for dish and directv will set their own prices for wall fishing.Since the 522/322 rcvrs have come out most jobs have needed at least one wall fish.


I see a lot of posts getting people's hopes up and being un-realistic. Installers (subs or not) or not required to do wall fishing for free. True, some guys I know have done it for free. I've done lots of extra stuff for free. But no one wants to come to a job site, see a 3 story house with 30+ feet roof, finished dens and attics, with customers wanting feeds to kitchens with the tv on islands and be expected to spend 4,5,6 hours there for free.
I know enough to know that jobs that look simple could get you stuck for hours. And it's easy for someone to sit back and say, "I don't see why not". "What's the big deal?"

The guys who are saying this are guys who obviously have plenty time to kill or have easy jobs.


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## waydwolf (Feb 2, 2003)

We Dish contractors are required to not up-charge for wallfishing, but we are NOT required to do it for free. Dish MUST pay us per the contract. $25 per wallfish is a slap in the face when pros get $60-$90 per hour billed on the half hour with one hour minimum charge. Most guys will only do the simplest ones from an unfinished basement or attic.

Wallfishing finished walls and ceilings is NOT a task for amateurs. There will certainly be a high chance of electrical cables in the spaces, and quite possibly gas lines. You can very easily break through a wall with a flex bit. Fishing blind is NOT something to be undertaken lightly.


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## dishsystems (Jun 21, 2004)

uncouthdude said:


> I see a lot of posts getting people's hopes up and being un-realistic. Installers (subs or not) or not required to do wall fishing for free. True, some guys I know have done it for free. I've done lots of extra stuff for free. But no one wants to come to a job site, see a 3 story house with 30+ feet roof, finished dens and attics, with customers wanting feeds to kitchens with the tv on islands and be expected to spend 4,5,6 hours there for free.
> I know enough to know that jobs that look simple could get you stuck for hours. And it's easy for someone to sit back and say, "I don't see why not". "What's the big deal?"
> 
> The guys who are saying this are guys who obviously have plenty time to kill or have easy jobs.


Trust me ,I feel your pain when it comes to the whole wall fishing issue.Our completion ratio has gone from 97% to 83 % nation wide as result of the new dual tuner rcvrs.we are in fact reimbursed from dish on our dnsc contract for a wall fish but not on RRP.We are also not allowed to charge for a wall fish.I have been in this business since 96 and I have seen alot of changes in the industry.Most of it has been at the expense of the retailer.....30ft.roofs....kitchens with islands? You cant get there from here !


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2004)

waydwolf said:


> We Dish contractors are required to not up-charge for wallfishing, but we are NOT required to do it for free. Dish MUST pay us per the contract. $25 per wallfish is a slap in the face when pros get $60-$90 per hour billed on the half hour with one hour minimum charge. Most guys will only do the simplest ones from an unfinished basement or attic.
> 
> Wallfishing finished walls and ceilings is NOT a task for amateurs. There will certainly be a high chance of electrical cables in the spaces, and quite possibly gas lines. You can very easily break through a wall with a flex bit. Fishing blind is NOT something to be undertaken lightly.


WdW,
your estimates are realistic. however a simple cordless drill, sharp snap razor knife and a 3/4"-1" speed spade bit is all that is needed for an unfinished attic fish. i have fished many electrical cables in simillar situations. Most partition walls in houses built 1960 an onwards do not have fire stop. in this case a hole with the speed bit is made in the top plate in the attic. a neat oprno=ing is cut thru the plaster board in the tv room with the razor knife. rg-6 is fed tru the opening ad finally installed in the wall using a zip box.
dont cmplicate simple fixes. and fyi ant y ah can do this. 
one point use a flash light to examine the partition via the hole in the yop plate, to see if any othe utilities electrical or others are present, also if there is fire stop and you do not want to repaint give it up, or find another route for your fish.


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