# New Dish Network Ad touts 2x guide speed performance compared to DirecTV receivers



## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

I just saw (but didn't hear) an ad for Dish Network that aired on FNC touting their service.

One of the things that they knocked about DirecTV was the slow guide performance, presumably of the HR-series of receivers. It touted that you could browse through the Dish VIP guide twice as fast as DirecTV's receiver, complete with a side-by-side pic comparing the speeds.

My first thought was, "Wow, that DirecTV guide is actually _faster_ than mine_!_"

And second, "Now that the competition is slamming your hardware in adverts, maybe it's time to fix the problem, guys."

The guide performance of SD and non-DVR HD receivers is great, but I still get constant complaints about the DVR's slow guide and performance. Maybe now that Dish is poking fun at this 'feature' something will get done?


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Tom Servo said:


> I just saw (but didn't hear) an ad for Dish Network that aired on FNC touting their service.
> 
> One of the things that they knocked about DirecTV was the slow guide performance, presumably of the HR-series of receivers. It touted that you could browse through the Dish VIP guide twice as fast as DirecTV's receiver, complete with a side-by-side pic comparing the speeds.
> 
> ...


dose the dish boxes have all stuff in background that direct tv boxes do?


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Yup, because one thing that will make me choose one provider over another is the guide speed. ??? Good marketing tool, I guess, and yes it would be nicer if the DirecTV guide could be faster, but that's one of the things you're hanging your hat on??? Almost sounds like scraping the bottom of the barrel to me, but I haven't seen the ad, so I could be missing something.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

Seems pretty good to me. The guide is the face of Directv like it or not to any user. Thats why the tornado logo takes up soo much room even though it would be better for the user to not have it at all and have more room for information or a bigger window for tv ect. 
We all see it everyday. It represents all the good things that are better then cable. Most cable company's are dismal on this. Turn to channel whatever and wait to see it or on a really slow digital cable box press and wait, wait, and wait. Hold on is that not what we are doing now? 

In the days prior to dtv branded boxes most rv people purchased dtv over dish for 3 reasons. 
1. no multisat dish was easy to setup. 
2. no long boot period when first turned on. You see the old boxes once plugged in could get tv in less then 20 seconds. Unlike dish at that time and now dtv is the same with the eternity please wait, just a few more seconds, checking settings, downloading guide data, please wait, ect. 
3. Fast guide and every manufacturer had different goodies to add. Dtv is just now starting to get to the goodies that were out 10 years ago. Example quick tune. Its not anywhere near as good as turbo tune but they did finally add it. Just took 5 years

I have friends with Dish that come over all the time. I go to their house too. I get made fun of for the guide is that bad. Its the fist thing you see other then the remote when you start to watch directv and the first idea of what dtv has to offer. They have all tried to get me to switch. It is much easier for a channel surfer on dish right now. It was not that way that long ago. Back a few years ago this was the reason why everyone purchased dtv over dish. 

Just read these forums and see all the people miffed about the horrible response of the units. Why not advertise what they have thats better. 

The new software that is not out yet finally addresses these issues. Still needs more work but it is a step in the right direction addressing peoples complaints. Took forever but they are starting to listen.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

JoeTheDragon said:


> dose the dish boxes have all stuff in background that direct tv boxes do?


I dunno. My last experience with a Dish receiver was eons ago and it wasn't impressive. That was back when D* receivers were still branded with third party company names like Sony and Samsung. They didn't have many features, but they just worked.



JLucPicard said:


> Yup, because one thing that will make me choose one provider over another is the guide speed. ??? Good marketing tool, I guess, and yes it would be nicer if the DirecTV guide could be faster, but that's one of the things you're hanging your hat on??? Almost sounds like scraping the bottom of the barrel to me, but I haven't seen the ad, so I could be missing something.


No doubt Dish is desperate to stem the blood loss on their end, but as has been mentioned the guide really is the face of the service these days, along with channel count, price and picture quality.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Wow, OK. I guess I stand corrected, but I can guarantee, if I was currently shopping for a provider, on my list of considerations the list would have to be extremely long for "guide response" to even be on it.

I guess this is one of those YMMV things.


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## Paul E Fox II (Jul 6, 2008)

I must be missing something...my Dad and Brother-In-Law both are Dish Network subscribers and I'm not blown away by the guide that I see on their receivers at all.

Maybe I've missed an upgrade or something but I like the DirecTV guide just fine.


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## MalibuRacing (Mar 2, 2007)

Not only is the guide being slow, but all functionality is slow. My HR21 will not properly respond to punching in the channel number over 50% of the time. Slip/Skip doesn't respond well. It's a performance issue and it's very frustrating when doing basic DVR operations. These issues have been discussed extensively, especially since the latest 034c release. Now we have to deal with the hard drive thrashing noise and getting constant audio and video signal break-up issues since this latest update. 

Overall, I'm a happy customer, I just wish D* would address some of these KNOWN issues before releasing new features.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

For me if it is to fast it is just as bad or not worse because i would be going back and forth missing what i was searching for.

The guide speed is fine there is more important issues that need to be addressed.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

There is hope!
My hr23 is in the same boat as your hr21. Running 34c or what ever the nr is right now. Its 3 days old and has 99% empty hard drive. 3 series record with 3 things on it. 8-12 seconds for the guide to launch. Long pauses when paging, Skip to end bug. Dont have the issue with punching in channels. Works fine on that. 
Work around I changed it to 30skip and the skip to end bug has not reappeared. 
Scrolling effects off, native off, 147 channel guide.

My r22-100 hd is a SPEED demon in comparison. Running some not available yet stuff. Scrolling effects off, native off, 147 channel guide. 80% available hard drive, 30 series links, vod enabled. 
It is loading the guide in 2-3 seconds reliably! Paging was at 1-2 seconds but after being on for awhile is now around 1 second for a full response and total page change. 
All current features seem to work. I dont use double play on either unit. Still buggy in some spots, but it is coming. Hopefully it will be out soon!


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

Ive seen the ad and it just seems to me that dish network is really getting desperate. I mean if all they can do is put down DirecTV to advertise themselves something is wrong. They do the same thing on other commercials comparing sports specifically football Sunday Ticket.I do agree the guide and other menus could be faster on DirecTV but they still work and get the job done. All the receivers do everything I want them to do. Most of the time it doesn't bother me at all if it takes a few seconds longer on some things. For me it only gets a little annoying if I am doing something specific and in a hurry. :lol:


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

JLucPicard said:


> Wow, OK. I guess I stand corrected, but I can guarantee, if I was currently shopping for a provider, on my list of considerations the list would have to be extremely long for "guide response" to even be on it.
> 
> I guess this is one of those YMMV things.


Believe me it wouldn't be something on my mind as a new customer either, and I consider myself a rather tech-savvy individual. But know what I know now&#8230;


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

JLucPicard said:


> Wow, OK. I guess I stand corrected, but I can guarantee, if I was currently shopping for a provider, on my list of considerations the list would have to be extremely long for "guide response" to even be on it.
> 
> I guess this is one of those YMMV things.


I agree, lots of people do use the guide all the time and they would be swayed by it. Sure, most poel ehere probably do mostly DVR watching, but if the overall interface is slow (and it is despite what many apologists want to beleive) it does affect the overall impression of the service as a whole.

Personally, I like DirecTV over Dish (used to have Dish years ago and would be very unlikely to go back) but the HR series is too slow.

And to whoever asked if the Dish boxes had as much background stuff going on, I bet the average user does not care a bit about the extra things and even the ones that do still want a faster interface.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

FWIW, in this old poll, 70% of respondents say the GUIDE is their first choice for scheduling recordings. Although that's not something folks do frequently, it is an indication of mindset.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

According to the page mentioning this on E*'s website:


> Based on EPG comparison between VIP 722k and HR22


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

So - E* has at least a twice-as-fast guide, and in HD, too (yes, their GUI is HD).

...and yet some still defend D* on this one. Wow.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

hancox said:


> So - E* has at least a twice-as-fast guide, and in HD, too (yes, their GUI is HD).
> 
> ...and yet some still defend D* on this one. Wow.


There is another side to this. After all, a fast guide is useless if you can't find the programming you want (NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB Extra Innings, NASCAR HotPass, etc, etc, etc). Maybe the guide is faster because it contains less watchable programming? :grin:


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I haven't seen the commercial but it is hard for me to see how it could be twice as fast as the guide in my HR20. That guide, for my purposes, is nearly instantaneous.

I use the guide daily to schedule recordings. Whoever posted that you don't do it often must not record movies.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

hancox said:


> So - E* has at least a twice-as-fast guide, and in HD, too (yes, their GUI is HD).
> 
> ...and yet some still defend D* on this one. Wow.


I guess it means we must _really_ like DirecTV.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I've seen the ad - they probably should have talked about general speed rather than guide speed. I used to have Dish Network and an HD DVR a 622... I know firsthand the speed difference between the 622 and my HR22s. I have to say the guide is the least of the slowness trouble of my HR22s. The 622 is more than twice as fast in EVERYTHING it does over the HR22.

While guide speed is the first place you notice it the HR22 is a suck-fest compared the 622. The 722k is even better. It is more than twice as a fast as an idle HR22 while the 722k is recording 4 HD streams... That would be 2 OTA and 2 Satellite all at the same time.... What is wrong with this picture?

DirecTV needs to fix these things - period.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

How about this for a counter Directv ad? Let's see who can find MLB Network in their guide faster, DISH or Directv?


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Kheldar said:


> According to the page mentioning this on E*'s website:
> 
> 
> > Based on EPG comparison between VIP 722k and HR22


Dish Network has surpassed DirecTV when it comes to DVR hardware.

The Dish ViP722K and upcoming ViP922 are both based on the Broadcom BCM7400. This SoC is a full generation beyond the BCM7401 in the HR21/HR22/HR23, with roughly double the CPU and graphics performance. The BCM7400 is intended to support quad-tuner DVRs with a high-definition UI, whereas the BCM7401 was intended to support dual-tuner DVRs with upconverted SD UIs.

Dish Network currently offers quad-tuner support on the ViP722K (with OTA add-on module) and is expected to add a HD UI in upcoming months. Dish Network's new HD UI for BCM7400-based DVRs:









Beta screenshot of BCM7400-based ViP922

Note this advantage is temporary. DirecTV is working on a next-generation DVR platform of its own, which should ship in 1Q 2010. This platform should be based on an even newer Broadcom SoC with even better performance.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Ken_F said:


> Note this advantage is temporary. DirecTV is working on a next-generation DVR platform of its own, which should ship in 1Q 2010. This platform should be based on an even newer Broadcom SoC with even better performance.


Looking forward to it!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> According to the page mentioning this on E*'s website:


LMAO @ DVR features you can't get with DIRECTV:

* Fly through recorded commercials with our 30-second skip button. *(HR2x do this, too)*
* Designate a recording to a second TV while watching a live program on your main TV. *(You can set up a recording while watching TV on 2 TVs on the HR2x. HDMI to one TV, component to a second TV.)*
* Share your recordings between two TVs. *(There's ways...HDMI to one TV, component to a second TV or a group of people here know another way. )*
* Scroll through your channels up to 2x times faster than DIRECTV.* *(Maybe on the HR22, but there are some fast HRs.)*


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## stephenC (Jul 18, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> I guess it means we must _really_ like DirecTV.


and we really like Sunday Ticket. Dish doesn't offer that.


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## scrybigtv (Jan 25, 2008)

So many of you criticize Dish for making Dish/DirecTV comparisons in areas where Dish is clearly better. But then you turn around and do the very thing you're criticizing Dish for.

Look, I'm a happy DirecTV customer. DirecTV provides me programming that is often unavailable from Dish. But many other TV buffs couldn't care less about the Sports Programming that's so important to me.

DirecTV has for years been doing the same type of advertising that you're critical of Dish for doing (does “Good TV, Better TV and DirecTV” ring a bell)? It's all just part of the way corporations play the one-upsmanship game with their biggest competitors.


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> * Scroll through your channels up to 2x times faster than DIRECTV.*


I am not going to switch programmers over the guide. I will say that the Dish guide looks sharp and clean, but the big flaw with their guide is that it does not contain the programming I watch - NFLST, MLBEI.

Does anyone know if the comparison was done with the scrolling effects On or Off? I know that there is always a slant to ad/marketing claims like the incorrect info on the skip feature on the HRs noted in Dish's ad.


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

Actually, I think competition is a great thing. I suspect that as a side effect of this commercial, we get faster guide performance on our HR-2X's.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

cariera said:


> Does anyone know if the comparison was done with the scrolling effects On or Off? I know that there is always a slant to ad/marketing claims like the incorrect info on the skip feature on the HRs noted in Dish's ad.


Good point. Unlike the HR20's, scrolling effects "on/off" makes a big difference on the HR21/22/23's.

Also, *Ken_F's* point about the BCM 7400 (VIP 722) vs. the BCM 7401 chip (HR21) is well taken. According to Broadcom's spec sheets, the 7400 offers more than double the raw processing power of the 7401.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

LOL at the ad. Dish is obviously getting desperate by running an ad like this. I'll bet they have another loss to announce for 3rd quarter at this rate.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> LOL at the ad. Dish is obviously getting desperate by running an ad like this. I'll bet they have another loss to announce for 3rd quarter at this rate.


Go Dish


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> LMAO @ DVR features you can't get with DIRECTV:


 * Fly through recorded commercials with our 30-second skip button. *(HR2x do this, too)* Right but on my HR22 it is hard to use because of the slow/erratic remote response.
* Designate a recording to a second TV while watching a live program on your main TV. *(You can set up a recording while watching TV on 2 TVs on the HR2x. HDMI to one TV, component to a second TV.)* In this case you can have the receiver output two DIFFERENT recordings One HD and one SD. Separate guide etc. Big difference
* Share your recordings between two TVs. *(There's ways...HDMI to one TV, component to a second TV or a group of people here know another way. )*Same as above - 2 different Outputs - not the same output split to two TVs 
* Scroll through your channels up to 2x times faster than DIRECTV.* *(Maybe on the HR22, but there are some fast HRs.)* Even an HR20-700 - the queen of the fleet comes close to the speed of the Dish receivers - not even close!

I have 3 HR22s that will hopefully be updated soon to at least 'acceptable' performance but they'll never match the speed of even the old 622 from Dish. Let's hope they are not going to make the same mistakes with any new receivers they come up with. I agree on the sports programming - that's why I switched to DirecTV but it was clearly a giant step down when it comes to hardware. If things don't change I'll be forced to sub to both - what a waste!


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

I can just see the directv response to this. 

"maybe they're a little faster, but they don't have all the channels to go through that we do"


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

If their guide is HD, and even in that photo above, it looks AWFUL compared to D*'s SD version. There is no color shading, nothing to take advantage of the HD. It's white text on blue squares--- the same it has looke since 1996. A waste.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> * Fly through recorded commercials with our 30-second skip button. *(HR2x do this, too)* Right but on my HR22 it is hard to use because of the slow/erratic remote response.


But it does do it.


> * Designate a recording to a second TV while watching a live program on your main TV. *(You can set up a recording while watching TV on 2 TVs on the HR2x. HDMI to one TV, component to a second TV.)* In this case you can have the receiver output two DIFFERENT recordings One HD and one SD. Separate guide etc. Big difference


It's a workaround, but possible.


> * Share your recordings between two TVs. *(There's ways...HDMI to one TV, component to a second TV or a group of people here know another way. )*Same as above - 2 different Outputs - not the same output split to two TVs


It didn't say simultaneously share the recordings. You can share a HR on 2 TVs, thus, shared recordings. Also, MRV is _kinda _possible. 


> * Scroll through your channels up to 2x times faster than DIRECTV.* *(Maybe on the HR22, but there are some fast HRs.)* Even an HR20-700 - the queen of the fleet comes close to the speed of the Dish receivers - not even close!


I know it varies by HR2x, but I don't think it gets much faster on mine...Press the direction, BAM you're there at the next line.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I don't think you understand what I'm saying!  The Dish receivers are designed to run two independent TVs - one HD and one SD. If you have bedrooms that you want to piggy-back off your DVR you can have independent control but the two TV's have to share the tuners.

For example - in 2 TV mode you could watch ESPN in HD on your main HDTV and watch Cartoon network on TV2 in the other room. You could also watch one recorded show on your HDTV and watch a different recorded show on TV2 in the other room.

There aren't any 'Workarounds' that would allow this to work with DirecTV.

As far as the speed goes - I think if you used a 722 from Dish Network you'd agree that it is much much much faster than your HR20 is in everything it does - not just the guide.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I don't think you understand what I'm saying!  The Dish receivers are designed to run two independent TVs - one HD and one SD. If you have bedrooms that you want to piggy-back off your DVR you can have independent control but the two TV's have to share the tuners.
> 
> For example - in 2 TV mode you could watch ESPN in HD on your main HDTV and watch Cartoon network on TV2 in the other room. You could also watch one recorded show on your HDTV and watch a different recorded show on TV2 in the other room.
> 
> ...


This "TV2" thing never made any sense to me. Just get a 2nd receiver, problem solved. It's not a choose-a-provider deal-breaker.

And neither is "guide speed" claims, either.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Dish is finally getting smart, I have been looking at there adds and they are honing in very carefully at DIRECTV’s underbelly.

Guide speed is a major issue, Sports believe it or not is a double edged sword. If your wife is with you are at Best Buy and the salesman brings up the subject of more sports comes with DIRECTV, that may cause an instant wife choice of E* and a very long argument to change her mind.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

xzi said:


> This "TV2" thing never made any sense to me. Just get a 2nd receiver, problem solved. It's not a choose-a-provider deal-breaker.
> 
> And neither is "guide speed" claims, either.


Well, maybe not to you. The two TVs is just a side benefit to me but the "guide speed" or rather the over-all speed is a deal-breaker for me. It's not easy to move from Dish to DirecTV and have to deal with all the troubles the slower receivers cause - just ask my family!

A friend of mine was going to switch to DirecTV but didn't because he had 3 receivers, 2 of which were running the kids bedrooms in addition to the TVs they were connected to. Basically he had 5 TVs he could control independently using 3 receivers. (could have been 6 using 3 receivers if he wanted) DirecTV would require the extra costs of 2 more receivers up front, extra wiring and switch costs and $10 extra a month for the extra receivers. He didn't do it just for that reason.... He didn't even know how much slower the receivers were than what he had so that didn't come into play.

What I miss the most about Dish Network is obviously the speed of the receivers but I also miss being able to record from 2 satellite channels and 1 OTA channel all at the same time. Now with the 722k you can record 2 sat and 2 OTA all at the same time.... I can't see anyone that gets used to being able to record 4 things at once dropping back to 2 and being happy about it!


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

xzi said:


> This "TV2" thing never made any sense to me. Just get a 2nd receiver, problem solved. It's not a choose-a-provider deal-breaker.
> 
> And neither is "guide speed" claims, either.


Hah

Why do people buy newer cell phones? Speed, more things they do, Muli purpose uses, The color, the external styling, ect. You bet it can be a deal breaker. Why do you think they want a 2 year contract?

The whole point of the 722 is you dont need 2 boxes. One box does everything 2 boxes will. Also my biggest issue with dish. When they install multi rooms they want to add these dual boxes.

Earlier on, it was mentioned that the processor of the 722 is twice as powerful and setup to handle 4 tuners. Well cant an hr unit with ota can record 2 sat feeds, a vod, and 2 ota at the same time and you can watch a recorded show. I know it can do 2 sat a vod and watch a recorded but not tried the ota. Had read it could do that too. Why the hell when the ota is not installed, no vod going, not using double play, watching an sd channel, and not recording on either tuner the nr software takes soooo long to respond and change guide pages? These should be immediate for its all in memory and the processor is almost idle since its only handling the current sd channel.

Why are soo many here saying its a no issue? Well lets see here how many work for dtv and want to keep this on the dl from higher ups?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

my1423 said:


> Hah
> 
> Why do people buy newer cell phones? Speed, more things they do, Muli purpose uses, The color, the external styling, ect. You bet it can be a deal breaker. Why do you think they want a 2 year contract?
> 
> ...


No it can't. No current HR unit can record more than two things at once via sat and/or ota (three if you have VOD).


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## Msguy (May 23, 2003)

Has anyone noticed when you see a Dish Network commercial lately they are very long commercials. I sat through and watched one the other day. It must have been atleast 3 minutes long. They kept telling me that I would save money and that I would be able to receive all my sports. Bzzzzzzzzz. WRONG! Dish Network will not give me all the sports I want to see and they will not save me any money over the long haul. After the 12 months or whatever they offer me of savings the regular price goes back up to the $55 a month subscription fee compared to my current package with DirecTv. DirecTv is the only place you can watch all the NFL Football games from NFL Sunday Ticket. DirecTv is the leader in High Definition and has the best value for your dollar if you love sports which my family and I live for on the weekends especially during college football and NFL Season. Dish Network needs to just give up saying that they provide "All the sports" you want because they won't for people who want a choice of which games they want to see.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

hancox said:


> So - E* has at least a twice-as-fast guide, and in HD, too (yes, their GUI is HD).
> 
> ...and yet some still defend D* on this one. Wow.


It's a common misconception that the E* guide is HD, it isn't. It is a true 16:9 guide even though it is rendered is SD.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

I have FiOS TV but still use D* for NFL ST (this is my last season though - they gave it to me free). The FiOS interactive media guide is at least _five_ times faster than D*'s (think _immediate_ response). Every time I watch NFL ST now it reminds me of how much I despise the HR2*, and before it I hated the DirecTivo even more! I do miss my D* UltimateTV though; that was a great DVR.

And yes, the E* duo VIP DVRs are heads and shoulders above the D* HR2* series DVRs (I've had E* in the recent past too).


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I don't think you understand what I'm saying!  The Dish receivers are designed to run two independent TVs - one HD and one SD. If you have bedrooms that you want to piggy-back off your DVR you can have independent control but the two TV's have to share the tuners.
> 
> For example - in 2 TV mode you could watch ESPN in HD on your main HDTV and watch Cartoon network on TV2 in the other room. You could also watch one recorded show on your HDTV and watch a different recorded show on TV2 in the other room.
> 
> ...


I know how it works on Dish, and IMO, it's a silly gimmick. TV2 is SD only...what's the point of being able to watch a HD recording in SD? Get another DVR and run new wires. Once MRV is out nationally on Directv, TV2's Dish option will be even sillier.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> I know how it works on Dish, and IMO, it's a silly gimmick. TV2 is SD only...what's the point of being able to watch a HD recording in SD? Get another DVR and run new wires. Once MRV is out nationally on Directv, TV2's Dish option will be even sillier.


It's a good inexpensive solution if you have a SD TV in another room, like a bedroom - I've used it for that. But to me the best thing about the E* "duo" receivers is PIP. When will DirecTV receivers have that? :sure:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> I know how it works on Dish, and IMO, it's a silly gimmick. TV2 is SD only...what's the point of being able to watch a HD recording in SD? Get another DVR and run new wires. Once MRV is out nationally on Directv, TV2's Dish option will be even sillier.


I wouldn't call it a silly gimmick - I'm sure there are plenty of people that use it... Saves them lease fees and recurring monthly fees for extra receivers.

I personally wouldn't use it for the TVs I watch but it worked rather well for the two kids bedrooms. It would also be great for that TV in the spare bedroom or elsewhere that you don't need HD. Why pay the money and mess with the wires if you don't have to?

I don't see MRV will helping with this aspect. MRV, if they every finish it, is really for the 'geeks'. The TV2 option is really for the non-geek users that just want a cheaper, easier way to hook up more TVs. Different group of people altogether.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

To each their own.

As for PIP...it's cool and all, but DP has been fine instead. I wouldn't mind PIP. :lol:


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

my1423 said:


> Hah
> 
> Why do people buy newer cell phones? Speed, more things they do, Muli purpose uses, The color, the external styling, ect. You bet it can be a deal breaker. Why do you think they want a 2 year contract?


Here's the thing, though. By the time a prospective customer figures it out, they've already signed the contract. And I can pretty much guarentee that almost no one is going to cancel the contract to move to a provider that is pretty much the same, but one has a "faster guide".

It's a waste of their advertising dollars.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I wouldn't call it a silly gimmick - I'm sure there are plenty of people that use it... Saves them lease fees and recurring monthly fees for extra receivers.
> 
> I personally wouldn't use it for the TVs I watch but it worked rather well for the two kids bedrooms. It would also be great for that TV in the spare bedroom or elsewhere that you don't need HD. Why pay the money and mess with the wires if you don't have to?
> 
> I don't see MRV will helping with this aspect. MRV, if they every finish it, is really for the 'geeks'. The TV2 option is really for the non-geek users that just want a cheaper, easier way to hook up more TVs. Different group of people altogether.


So you are suggesting that wiring up a "TV2" output through walls is "easier" than DIRECTV's current implementation of MRV (in CE obviously)? That's not realistic, it's super simple and works great even in pre-beta form. No way DIRECTV's MRV is going to be a "geek only" feature, it's going to be a highly-advertised selling poing for them someday.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Reaper said:


> It's a good inexpensive solution if you have a SD TV in another room, like a bedroom - I've used it for that. But to me the best thing about the E* "duo" receivers is PIP. When will DirecTV receivers have that? :sure:


OK, but if you have the Dish "duo" receiver set up for a TV1/TV2 operation don't you loose tha abiliity to do PIP? Also then don't you have a problem with TV2 taking one of the satellite tuners which means TV1 can't be recording one DBS channel while also watching a live DBS channel?

With that said, each's provides DVR's has their own different feature set. DirecTV has MediaShare and TVApps plus DirecTV2PC which Dish doesn't have. Some people might find more value in those features then saving $5/month on a box lease fee.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

RAD said:


> OK, but if you have the Dish "duo" receiver set up for a TV1/TV2 operation don't you loose tha abiliity to do PIP?


Yes.



RAD said:


> Also then don't you have a problem with TV2 taking one of the satellite tuners which means TV1 can't be recording one DBS channel while also watching a live DBS channel?


If TV2's in use I suppose. I never had this problem though.



RAD said:


> With that said, each's provides DVR's has their own different feature set. DirecTV has MediaShare and TVApps plus DirecTV2PC which Dish doesn't have. Some people might find more value in those features then saving $5/month on a box lease fee.


True enough. The VIP 922 will be slingloaded though, offering functionality similar to DIRECTV2PC.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

xzi said:


> So you are suggesting that wiring up a "TV2" output through walls is "easier" than DIRECTV's current implementation of MRV (in CE obviously)? That's not realistic, it's super simple and works great even in pre-beta form. No way DIRECTV's MRV is going to be a "geek only" feature, it's going to be a highly-advertised selling poing for them someday.


Many installs don't need new 'wires'. You can just use the coax system in place for the extra tv. It is much more likely you'll have to run cables if you add the receiver to the other tv.

I hope you're right about MRV but I don't it much hope. You need a network and that eliminates most of the non-geek crowd. Maybe their new deal adding Ethernet over-the-coax will help but we'll have to see. Even if you have a network you'll have to put up with the even slower-than-hell response you get when you're not using MRV.

I like the idea - and if implemented and marketed correctly it could be a great thing. Especialy for those living in geekdom. The promise of MRV was one reason I switched to DirecTV but it was just-around-the-corner over a year ago when I signed up and likely won't be here in any form until well into 2010.

Again I hope you're right but I just can't imagine they'll get the performance out of these already way to slow boxes.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Reaper said:


> True enough. The VIP 922 will be slingloaded though, offering functionality similar to DIRECTV2PC.


But that also means that you'd need to get a 922, which could be an additional purchase vs. being able to use any HR2X or R22 with DirecTV2PC, no hardware swaps are necessary.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

RAD said:


> But that also means that you'd need to get a 922, which could be an additional purchase vs. being able to use any HR2X or R22 with DirecTV2PC, no hardware swaps are necessary.


True. I would do it though, not for the slingloaded features but for the sweet HD interface.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Fellas if you want this thread to survive I would suggest not to repeat history. Dont discuss CE (and anything in CE) so that we can keep this alive. . As for the commercials, all I see them doing is bashing Directv but I understand their need. They need to try to take some of the 18 million customers that Directv has and that takes commercials like this. They cant say they offer more services or features so they have to put something out there.

As for Dish to Directv comparison. My brother still has his Dish and has the VIP722K. I havent been WOWed by it yet. He comes over to my house all the time and loves my guide, menu, layout, and features. He is happy enough because of the monthly price. He was paying way more than me for less and cut everything out to almost basic cable style so he pays less than me now and needs it this way for economic reasons. But he is pissed cause he is a huge NFL fan and is hoping things get better next year to get the NFST.

I think as these companies continue to compete things will get better from both and cheaper for the rest of us. As for the receivers, its all about the next released product. Its not like Directv is not going to release a new STB and then Dish will do it again and so on.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Any ad Dish would produce would clearly be manipulative in its messaging and content to attempt to sway folks in their direction - not exactly a surprise.

Anyone making choices based on those ads would certainly warrant getting questionable results if that's how they made any choices.

Dish has been sued so many times for false and deceptive ads in the past, they obviously have a bank of attorneys on staff or retainer.

In any case...those who accept and believe that stuff on *face value *are sheep - but that's their choice.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

scrybigtv said:


> DirecTV has for years been doing the same type of advertising that you're critical of Dish for doing (does "Good TV, Better TV and DirecTV" ring a bell)? It's all just part of the way corporations play the one-upsmanship game with their biggest competitors.


But DirecTV has almost always taken aim at cable, not at Dish-look at the Christopher Guest "Cable Corp. INC" commercials. The good TV was broadcast, the better TV was cable and then there was DirecTV-and that was probably why the campaign died out quickly. You NEVER give any praise to your competition.



bonscott87 said:


> LOL at the ad. Dish is obviously getting desperate by running an ad like this. I'll bet they have another loss to announce for 3rd quarter at this rate.


When haven't Dish commercials seemed a bit desperate?



dreadlk said:


> Dish is finally getting smart, I have been looking at there adds and they are honing in very carefully at DIRECTV's underbelly.


As I understand it, there was a "gentleman's agreement" between DirecTV and Dish to not directly attack each other in advertising. The understanding that they would always go against cable and not try to tear each other down. Obviously Dish has thrown out that agreement-it doesn't seem like DirecTV is replying in kind. They'd rather not sink to Dish's level.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Msguy said:


> They kept telling me that I would save money and that I would be able to receive all my sports. Bzzzzzzzzz. WRONG! Dish Network will not give me all the sports I want to see and they will not save me any money over the long haul. ... DirecTv is the only place you can watch all the NFL Football games from NFL Sunday Ticket. DirecTv is the leader in High Definition and has the best value for your dollar if you love sports which my family and I live for on the weekends especially during college football and NFL Season. Dish Network needs to just give up saying that they provide "All the sports" you want because they won't for people who want a choice of which games they want to see.


Technically, DishNet _does_ provide all the sports. They don't, however, provide _all the games_ played in all the sports, or provide all of the _sports packages_.

Not a falsehood, just not the entire truth. (But what do you expect from DishNet?) :soapbox:


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> As I understand it, there was a "gentleman's agreement" between DirecTV and Dish to not directly attack each other in advertising. The understanding that they would always go against cable and not try to tear each other down. Obviously Dish has thrown out that agreement-it doesn't seem like DirecTV is replying in kind. They'd rather not sink to Dish's level.


You may understand it that way, but both have taken shots at each other over the years. It IS legitimate advertising, especially when the shortcomings are true.

As to DirecTV not responding in kind, rather hard to do when it is talking HDDVRs. D* could and has talked about all their sports, which is a big plus for D* and should be touted.

And all advertising stretches the limits as far as they think they can get away with. Remember the 'up to 200 HD channels' once touted by your favorite sat provider?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> Technically, DishNet _does_ provide all the sports. They don't, however, provide _all the games_ played in all the sports, or provide all of the _sports packages_.
> 
> Not a falsehood, just not the entire truth. (But what do you expect from DishNet?) :soapbox:


Nice soapbox! 

This is really funny, both companies are pretty good at not providing the entire truth as often pointed out here and in many other forums. It is pretty much if you don't know which question to ask, you might not get a fully correct answer.

This thread is really funny and has brought out the fanbois in full force!! :hurah:


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Newshawk said:


> As I understand it, there was a "gentleman's agreement" between DirecTV and Dish to not directly attack each other in advertising. The understanding that they would always go against cable and not try to tear each other down. Obviously Dish has thrown out that agreement-it doesn't seem like DirecTV is replying in kind. They'd rather not sink to Dish's level.


If such an agreement ever existed, it appears to be out of force now.
DirecTV's "DirecTV Stomps DISH Network" page:


> *Clearly DIRECTV and DISH Network are not the same company.*
> There's a reason why DISH Network claims to be so cheap. They want you to believe they can deliver the same TV for less. But the truth is, their packages are padded with channels no one has heard of, and you get less sports, inferior technology and second-rate service - DISH Network is not even accredited with the Better Business Bureau. You get what you pay for. DIRECTV stomps DISH Network.
> 
> *Channels*
> ...


And it goes on from there. It appears the gloves are off on both sides.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Any ad Dish would produce would clearly be manipulative in its messaging and content to attempt to sway folks in their direction - not exactly a surprise.
> 
> Anyone making choices based on those ads would certainly warrant getting questionable results if that's how they made any choices.
> 
> ...


Any ad that any giant corporation produces is only interested in getting people to buy... The truth is secondary.

They all do it - people need to dig a little deeper if they want the truth.

In this case it only takes a few minutes using a Dish Network receiver to see that it is much faster in more than just the guide.

Its funny that you mention sheep... It's crazy how many 'followers' there are for DirecTV and Dish Network. Some ignore the truth as if they work in the marketing department and their jobs depend on selling their stuff. I can't understand why Dish Network followers ignore the programming advantages of DirecTV any more than I can understand why DirecTV followers constantly defend the HR receivers and deny their problems.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> If such an agreement ever existed, it appears to be out of force now.
> DirecTV's "DirecTV Stomps DISH Network" page:
> 
> And it goes on from there. It appears the gloves are off on both sides.


Wow - what a load! This stuff drives me nuts... You'd think they would be shamed into at least making an attempt to use the truth - on both sides.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Wow - what a load! This stuff drives me nuts... You'd think they would be shamed into at least making an attempt to use the truth - on both sides.


What part of either the DirecTV page or the DishNet ad was not "truth"? It is a fact of life that advertising claims are very, very, very carefully worded so that they are technically truthful yet easily misunderstood to mean something the company wishes they could claim.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> There is another side to this. After all, a fast guide is useless if you can't find the programming you want (NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB Extra Innings, NASCAR HotPass, etc, etc, etc). Maybe the guide is faster because it contains less watchable programming? :grin:





Curtis0620 said:


> How about this for a counter Directv ad? Let's see who can find MLB Network in their guide faster, DISH or Directv?


&#8230;and once again the non-sports fans are relegated to second-class customers. 

When I subscribed (no doubt after watching some advert that bent the truth) there was no mention of sports packages. Heck, was there even such a thing as MLB:EI or Superfan back in 1998? I honestly don't remember. But nowadays it seems that's all DirecTV is, is a sports service.

Well, it ain't. It's a lot more but the sports fanbois don't wanna recognize the rest of us.



> *Channels*
> Don't fall for their channel counts. They're filled with dozens of audio-only channels and channels you've never heard of like Starfish Network, Gems and Jewelry, Horseracing TV and over 15 shopping channels. And you might miss some of the hottest shows on TV, like Mad Men, Nip/Tuck, Top Chef and many others.


Gems, Jewelry and A horseracing channel are all on DirecTV. As are 60+ SiriusXM channels. D* has just as many channels I've never heard of. UWIN? Celebrity Shopping Network?? nrb??? Huh?

And last I checked, Mad Men IS on Dish - *IN HD!* :lol:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Tom Servo said:


> And last I checked, Mad Men IS on Dish - *IN HD!* :lol:


It wasn't in HD (but was in SD) on DISH when that ad was originally posted. DIRECTV does a very poor job at maintaining the currency of the content on their website in this respect.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JoeTheDragon said:


> dose the dish boxes have all stuff in background that direct tv boxes do?


That depends on what is important to the subscriber and their family. Much of the "bells and whistles" features of the HR2x boxes are still in their infancy and often don't work well or as hoped.

DISH's current ViP DVRs don't implement remote viewing on a single computer.

They do support recording three (or four in the case of the ViP722K) programs at once. Yes, they can also record a fourth or fifth in the background via VOD. Until the advent of the K series, all DISH HD receivers still include an OTA tuner.

Both support external drives but the DISH implementation is much less disruptive , it isn't tied to a particular DVR and you don't have to start fresh with each new external drive.

If you lay out the _practical_ advantages of each HD DVR and match them up side-by-side in terms of usefulness and execution, it is difficult to give the nod to the DIRECTV offering.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> What part of either the DirecTV page or the DishNet ad was not "truth"? It is a fact of life that advertising claims are very, very, very carefully worded so that they are technically truthful yet easily misunderstood to mean something the company wishes they could claim.


The pieces they leave off. Can't get Sunday Ticket on Dish Network. Can't get a decent DVR from DirecTV.... Can't get VS on DirecTV...

From DirecTV's own web site listed previously... Neither Dish nor Direct can count the channels. They both are loaded with worthless channels that no one has ever watched. The so-called sports leader won't be showing my football game Saturday - no VS on DirecTV - I'll be at a neighbor that has Dish Network watching. As far as technology goes - DirecTV claims to be the leader with some features few even know or care about while their DVRs are loaded with problems and have been for years. Bundles? Who cares? I'm surprised they don't claim that somehow their VOD is better than cable... Wait - I'm sure they have! Of course it is better to wait for a couple of hours for your down-rezed VOD to download! Gives you plenty of time to clean the house and pick up some junk food for the movie.

They are all full of it... Dish Network once told me that Comcast didn't even have real HD. When I posted about it there were others that said DirecTV sales people had told them the same thing. Whatever makes the sale - forget the truth!


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## MalibuRacing (Mar 2, 2007)

Wow this thread is all over the board. The OP stated that E* was running ads about their receiver being 2x faster than D*. Now people are bring up programming and everything else in D*'s defense. I'm not leaving D*, I'm happy overall. I have a HR20 that I'm very happy with. My HR21 on the other hand is a dog. I just want D* to address the issue and "fix" it, or give me another receiver (I haven't called to complain about it). The fact remains that some D* receivers are slow and buggy, I don't care if it has sports package or WHATEVER channel in HD. 

You guys are slamming E* for "grasping" for some type of negative ad on D*. But, if you read the boards here, there are a LOT of discussions of slow buggy operation on certain HR models. For those people, like me, it is a legitimate complaint. I'm sure that E* did some market research before dumping a ton of money into an advertising campaign. It's a legit issue that MANY on here complain about. 

Finally, quit defending D* by touting D* programming lineup(s). I know they have good programming already, especially if you're a sports fan. Don't tell me that they are coming out with a new whiz-bang model. I've spent good money on the receivers I already have and don't want to go out and buy another to replace a marginal product. Just fix the buggy receivers. :nono2:

OK, rant off...:grin:


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Gotta love marketing, where errors of omission are the same as the truth.

That goes for all companies, BTW.


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

Wow, I'm glad to see Dish go after D for this, our boxes are jokes speed wise... Hopefully D will step it up...

I posted this a few weeks back
click here


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## scrybigtv (Jan 25, 2008)

MalibuRacing said:


> Wow this thread is all over the board. The OP stated that E* was running ads about their receiver being 2x faster than D*. Now people are bring up programming and everything else in D*'s defense. I'm not leaving D*, I'm happy overall. I have a HR20 that I'm very happy with. My HR21 on the other hand is a dog. I just want D* to address the issue and "fix" it, or give me another receiver (I haven't called to complain about it). The fact remains that some D* receivers are slow and buggy, I don't care if it has sports package or WHATEVER channel in HD.
> 
> You guys are slamming E* for "grasping" for some type of negative ad on D*. But, if you read the boards here, there are a LOT of discussions of slow buggy operation on certain HR models. For those people, like me, it is a legitimate complaint. I'm sure that E* did some market research before dumping a ton of money into an advertising campaign. It's a legit issue that MANY on here complain about.
> 
> ...


This!


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## IDRick (Feb 16, 2007)

IMO, this ad is a wise move by Dish. Speed of receiver does make my top 5 list of priorities. YMMV of course.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

The only complaint the rest of my family has after switching from DISH to DirecTV is the slow guide response, and it (not the slow response but my family's complaint) is driving me nuts. I don't know who to blame.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Well let's face it these companies don't get moving on anything until they start to see their subscriber numbers start to drop so I sacrificed myself for all of you.

Nah! I was on my way out anyways because of the lack of standard definition programming that my family wanted,but it sounded good didn't it?.:grin:

Plus I am not a sports fan so I can be flexible so I told DirecTV that I had issues with the DVRs(R15&R22) one basic channel The Hallmark Movie Channel needs to be added and Premium Channel programming which is true.

So my local installer set me up with a 625 that has in Single Mode 2-120 minute live buffers with no time out(imagine that).I can say Dish has done their homework on this DVR alot of nice features.So in closing I wish you all well and who knows in 2 years I may be back because I am not easy but I can be had.

P.S. Just checked my bill today found out with AEP no DVR fees! How original maybe something DirecTV should consider adding to their Premier package.


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## Scott Corbett (Jan 27, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> There is another side to this. After all, a fast guide is useless if you can't find the programming you want (NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB Extra Innings, NASCAR HotPass, etc, etc, etc). Maybe the guide is faster because it contains less watchable programming? :grin:


Are you saying that anything other than sports is unwatchable?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

Scott Corbett said:


> Are you saying that anything other than sports is unwatchable?


I agree. While i like the extra HD with Center Ice I could care less about Sunday Ticket


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

I notice noone is mentioning all the HD movie channels that Dish has that DirecTV doesn't. That does matter to the non-sports fanatics.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Juppers said:


> I notice noone is mentioning all the HD movie channels that Dish has that DirecTV doesn't. That does matter to the non-sports fanatics.


I am not much of a sports person and have noticed but they both go back and forth. For awhile it was Directv. Now Dish has more. It will continue to go back and forth until everyone is 100% HD and then they will have to market something else.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Juppers said:


> I notice noone is mentioning all the HD movie channels that Dish has that DirecTV doesn't. That does matter to the non-sports fanatics.


That's because in the grand scheme of things, they aren't that many less on D*, and they all show the same crap over and over anyway.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Juppers said:


> I notice noone is mentioning all the HD movie channels that Dish has that DirecTV doesn't. That does matter to the non-sports fanatics.


Because I can rent a movie at Netflix before it shows up on either DBS or cable cheaper then paying monthly for the premium channels.


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## Truman (Mar 8, 2006)

let's see how guide speed is after the latest NR gets rolled out.

gotta be more than coincidence that it's coming out now, don'tcha think? ;]


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## Scott Corbett (Jan 27, 2006)

xzi said:


> That's because in the grand scheme of things, they aren't that many less on D*, and they all show the same crap over and over anyway.


Please define "crap".


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Scott Corbett said:


> Please define "crap".


How about the same movie that's been on 15 times all month. HBO 8 the Ocho doesn't really gain a whole lot over just 2 or 3 HBO's. Besides the fact that Netflix or Blockbuster is cheaper.

Anyway, as to the actual advertising, I don't know anybody that chooses a provider based on guide speed. This is Dish getting really desperate. Most people choose a provider based on price and the channels they carry and nothing more. The amount of people swayed by guide speed isn't even enough to count. But I guess when your sub counts have been nosediving for months that any tic up is a good thing. :lol:


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## Scott Corbett (Jan 27, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> How about the same movie that's been on 15 times all month. HBO 8 the Ocho doesn't really gain a whole lot over just 2 or 3 HBO's. Besides the fact that Netflix or Blockbuster is cheaper.


That's not "crap", that is convenience for people who do not have DVRs.

In your opinion, what is programming that is not "crap"?

BTW, I will be suspending my account very shortly. I will depend on Netflix until the fate of D12 is known, even though Netflix is a lot more expensive per movie (not cheaper).


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## clotter (Apr 12, 2008)

Reaper said:


> I have FiOS TV but still use D* for NFL ST (this is my last season though - they gave it to me free). The FiOS interactive media guide is at least _five_ times faster than D*'s (think _immediate_ response). Every time I watch NFL ST now it reminds me of how much I despise the HR2*, and before it I hated the DirecTivo even more! I do miss my D* UltimateTV though; that was a great DVR.
> 
> And yes, the E* duo VIP DVRs are heads and shoulders above the D* HR2* series DVRs (I've had E* in the recent past too).


Mirror's my thoughts. If the E box is twice as fast as the D box, that's still unacceptably slow! My HR is so slow, I've developed new and imaginative curse words as a result of trying to use it. Guide speed will be at the TOP of my list when my contract is over in April.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Scott Corbett said:


> That's not "crap", that is convenience for people who do not have DVRs.
> 
> In your opinion, what is programming that is not "crap"?
> 
> BTW, I will be suspending my account very shortly. I will depend on Netflix until the fate of D12 is known, even though Netflix is a lot more expensive per movie (not cheaper).


Who doesn't have a DVR nowadays? 

As for cost of Netflix. I guess it's how many movies you watch. For the price of just HBO you can get 3 out at a time unlimited per month. You can easily do 15+ movies a month with that. If you add even one more movie channel you are in the 5+ out at a time unlimited plan. I applaud you if you can watch more movies then that per month to actually make the movie channels worth it (besides the fact they only show the movies they want to show you, with Netflix you see the movies you want to see). 

Good luck! There is no "correct" answer, only what is right for you.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> LMAO @ DVR features you can't get with DIRECTV:
> 
> * Fly through recorded commercials with our 30-second skip button. *(HR2x do this, too)*
> * Designate a recording to a second TV while watching a live program on your main TV. *(You can set up a recording while watching TV on 2 TVs on the HR2x. HDMI to one TV, component to a second TV.)*
> ...


Keep in mind that on the VIP622/722/722K the second TV can be displaying a different program than the first TV and that setting that timer on TV2 won't obscure the screen on TV1 as it would on a Hrxx series.


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## Scott Corbett (Jan 27, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Who doesn't have a DVR nowadays?
> 
> As for cost of Netflix. I guess it's how many movies you watch. For the price of just HBO you can get 3 out at a time unlimited per month. You can easily do 15+ movies a month with that. If you add even one more movie channel you are in the 5+ out at a time unlimited plan. I applaud you if you can watch more movies then that per month to actually make the movie channels worth it (besides the fact they only show the movies they want to show you, with Netflix you see the movies you want to see).
> 
> Good luck! There is no "correct" answer, only what is right for you.


I think there are millions of D* subscribers without DVRs, although I do not have the numbers to prove it.

With my 3 out unlimited Netflix plan, I find that I can watch only about 12 per month before they start delaying shipment. That is about $2 each (with BD ), far more expensive than D* each.

Did you miss the question about was is not "crap".


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Curtis0620 said:


> How about this for a counter Directv ad? Let's see who can find MLB Network in their guide faster, DISH or Directv?


It is great that you like sports enough to spend for it. Plus lucky you to live in a time when all kinds of sports can be watched. I remember a time when if it wasn't on the three networks or maybe a independent station you didn't watch it.

For many extra cost sports is a non starter. I include mysel in that BTW.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> Wow, OK. I guess I stand corrected, but I can guarantee, if I was currently shopping for a provider, on my list of considerations the list would have to be extremely long for "guide response" to even be on it.
> 
> I guess this is one of those YMMV things.


Guide speed and capacity is important to me as well as speed. That is why I no longer have D*.

I have fast searches as well as a fast guide. I'm set for 3 hours of 7 channels on my guide, 9 channels by 3 hours without live video playing in one corner. Everytime I'm on a SD set that shows 1.5 hours and 4 or 5 channels I hate it. If it were slow it'd be even worse. I still remember the really slow searches on the Two RCA boxes.

I wonder why E* doesn't tout more SD & HD premium channels ? That's more important many than sports. I'm Currently on the free HBO & Showtime for 3 months & Cinemax for a penny deals.

I suspect that disk thrashing I've been hearing about is somehow related to the way they implemented DLB.



harsh said:


> That depends on what is important to the subscriber and their family. Much of the "bells and whistles" features of the HR2x boxes are still in their infancy and often don't work well or as hoped.
> 
> DISH's current ViP DVRs don't implement remote viewing on a single computer.
> 
> ...


I gather that many are getting free external drive support to back up their programs if they do need to swap the DVR. D* is free but tied to the DVR compared to E* tied to the account. BTW as a nice feature the learning remote from E* can back up timers and suce before a swap on one model with more models to come AFAIK. What a neat feature. Imagine how much more usable multiple drives would be on the HRxx series if you didn't have to recreate everything when you swap the external drive.

I've always wondered how long it takes for a hrxx to find all the future showings when you set a timer. On the VIP series it happens right away.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

TBoneit said:


> I wonder why E* doesn't tout more SD & HD premium channels ? That's more important many than sports.


Sports rules !! movies blow.


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## Scott Corbett (Jan 27, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> Sports rules !! movies blow.


That's why I am leaving D*.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Scott Corbett said:


> That's why I am leaving D*.


Goodbye.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

Scott Corbett said:


> That's why I am leaving D*.


Best of luck. You have to do what is best for you.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Who doesn't have a DVR nowadays?


From the available statistics, at least 40% of DIRECTV subscribers.


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## Scott Corbett (Jan 27, 2006)

ATARI said:


> Goodbye.


I am leaving D*, I am not leaving here.
I am suspending first, then I will look at what D* does with D12 to make my final decision.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Scott Corbett said:


> I am leaving D*, I am not leaving here.
> I am suspending first, then I will look at what D* does with D12 to make my final decision.


Ah, my bad.

Smart move suspending first, and not canceling right away.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Jhon69 said:


> ..
> 
> So my local installer set me up with a 625 that has in Single Mode 2-120 minute live buffers with no time out(imagine that).I can say Dish has done their homework on this DVR alot of nice features.So in closing I wish you all well and who knows in 2 years I may be back because I am not easy but I can be had.
> 
> ...


How is the user interface with your Dish DVR? My only experience with Dish has been some of their receivers, which I thought were terrible. (As far as the remote and UI were concerned) Of course, these were recievers in vacation properties, which may have been pretty old.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I've seen the commercial in question, I don't know about everyone else but I couldn't read the guide as fast as they were scrolling on the E* box. I actually like to read what's on the guide before going to the next page. What I don't know about the D* boxes is that one time the guide zips along (with the latest national release) but other time it take a couple seconds, it needs to be consistent in it's reaction.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> I've seen the ad - they probably should have talked about general speed rather than guide speed. I used to have Dish Network and an HD DVR a 622... I know firsthand the speed difference between the 622 and my HR22s. I have to say the guide is the least of the slowness trouble of my HR22s. *The 622 is more than twice as fast in EVERYTHING it does over the HR22.*
> 
> While guide speed is the first place you notice it the HR22 is a suck-fest compared the 622. The 722k is even better. It is more than twice as a fast as an idle HR22 while the 722k is recording 4 HD streams... That would be 2 OTA and 2 Satellite all at the same time.... What is wrong with this picture?
> 
> DirecTV needs to fix these things - period.


I'm a little late to the party, but saying "The 622 is more than twice as fast in *EVERYTHING* it does over the HR22" is a stretch. Can it record an hour program in a half hour? 

I'm with you on getting things to work at a decent speed consistently. Hopefully the latest release will actually help.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

Many of the early HR20 users (like me) from 2007 have completed or are near the end of their contracts. I'm not really interested in Sunday Ticket, so why do I stay with Directv? I've been loyal to them for 10 years, but the competition is getting hard to ignore. Most providers have added all of the HD channels I watch, so that is no longer an issue. I don't really care about the media center/on-demand/MRV/etc. on the current HD-DVR. As I've stated here many times, I would be very happy with a basic Directv HD-DVR (without the bells & whistles) that was stable and had quick menus and fast RF remote response. Many people seem to think Tivo is the cure-all, but we will have to wait and see. Oh well, my plan is to wait until Jan-10 to make a decision.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

RCY said:


> How is the user interface with your Dish DVR? My only experience with Dish has been some of their receivers, which I thought were terrible. (As far as the remote and UI were concerned) Of course, these were recievers in vacation properties, which may have been pretty old.


Being a standard definition subscriber I think it's OK,but if I was an HD subscriber I probably would not like it because Dish's HDDVR only have 2-60 minute live buffers and the second tuner output is SD only.This is my first Dish DVR(625) before I ran a standard receiver(DP301).


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Jhon69 said:


> Being a standard definition subscriber I think it's OK,but if I was an HD subscriber I probably would not like it because Dish's HDDVR only have 2-60 minute live buffers and the second tuner output is SD only.This is my first Dish DVR(625) before I ran a standard receiver(DP301).


Thanks for the response. I'll probably try to find a Dish HD DVR in a store somewhere to try out the interface. I could probably live with the HD input on the main TV and a SD on the "other" TV. I was primarily interested in if the UI and remote for the Dish DVRs were better than their standalone recievers.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

RCY said:


> Thanks for the response. I'll probably try to find a Dish HD DVR in a store somewhere to try out the interface. I could probably live with the HD input on the main TV and a SD on the "other" TV. I was primarily interested in if the UI and remote for the Dish DVRs were better than their standalone recievers.


 Your welcome,the answer to that question is Oh yeah as there is a big difference between the DVR interface and remote and standard receiver interface and remote at least that is what I have found out so far.That would be your best bet to be able to try it out for yourself as everyone's likes and dislikes are normally not the same.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Anyway, as to the actual advertising, I don't know anybody that chooses a provider based on guide speed. This is Dish getting really desperate.


This is Dish taking a low blow, but one that deserves to be taken.

Guide speed isn't something that people actively look for when shopping TV providers, but it's something that can make or break a great viewing experience.

It's sort of like car engines and the old saw, "people buy horsepower but drive torque." The horsepower in this case is content (channels) but the torque is the box and how well it works.

I just spent a few days at a relative's house with their cable box. They're old folks that don't even know how to bring up the guide, much less do VOD or anything advanced.

But for them it doesn't matter because the box is fast enough at changing channels that it doesn't get in their way. One of them spent a week with me this summer and she complained about the HDDVR's speed after about 5 minutes of trying to find a channel she wanted to watch. Then she gave up and went into the bedroom, where the little D11 blasted through channels like a hot knife through butter.

I tried to get her to watch on the HDTV but she said it wasn't worth the hassle of having an HDTV if it was gonna be that slow.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

Hah, 

I think most of you are missing the point of these commercials. These adds are not targeting new subscribers. They are specifically targeting directv customers who are fed up, and customers that have had both and swap back and for for every new deal out. Every forum on the net has posts about speed issues and Directv. 
Adds targeting a potential 18 million subscriber market do not sound like a waste of money. Sounds like good business. 

As far as speed directv lost that back with the first brand only boxes. If you think any Dxx brand unit is fast you probably have not used a Hughes 6 or 7th gen box. Smokes the dxx series. Old Ultimate tv kicks the r15 r16 but on nearly everything but storage space but it was upgradeable and was years prior to the d units. 

Im glad Directv has finally started to address these issues and I am so happy Dish is targeting them with these adds. This is competition at its best. Directv will loose a few and dish will grow. Directv will take notice and Fix the issues. New hd sat will come online, new tivo units will be released, Directv will launch its next generation of units, Directv will gain back most of what is looses plus new ones leaving cable. This is free market at work. We all win due to competition.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

my1423 said:


> Directv will loose a few and dish will grow.


... or Dish will shrink at a slower rate. :sure:


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## gitarzan (Dec 31, 2005)

I only have a couple of months to go now on my HR21 committment. My HR21 has been disappointing and really with unacceptable performance. As a previous VIP622 owner it is going to be hard for DirecTV to keep me happy.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I am on the new national release software right now on my HR20 HD DVR

I think it is faster than my Dish HD DVR when I had dish.

They seemed to fix all the slowness issues.


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## gitarzan (Dec 31, 2005)

Jhon69 said:


> Being a standard definition subscriber I think it's OK,but if I was an HD subscriber I probably would not like it because Dish's HDDVR only have 2-60 minute live buffers and the second tuner output is SD only.This is my first Dish DVR(625) before I ran a standard receiver(DP301).


Actually both SAT tuners and the OTA tuners are all HD. It is the second TV output that is SD only which is a feature the HR boxes do not have.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

gitarzan said:


> Actually both SAT tuners and the OTA tuners are all HD. It is the second TV output that is SD only which is a feature the HR boxes do not have.


Thank you for this explanation and correction.


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## Maleman (Apr 18, 2007)

Hmm maybe slight off topic and granted I am new to Directv. Isn't Directv marketed towards the sports fan? Dish to others?

Who is Dish/Directv marketing towards?

All I know is I would die without sports in my life. :lol:Go Directv. More sports please!


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Maleman said:


> Hmm maybe slight off topic and granted I am new to Directv. Isn't Directv marketed towards the sports fan? Dish to others?
> 
> Who is Dish/Directv marketing towards?
> 
> All I know is I would die without sports in my life. :lol:Go Directv. More sports please!


Basically you are correct yet DISH! has some sports too(Dish has NFL Red Zone now), so it all depends what your looking for.The best bet is for the subscriber to check out the channels and prices of all the channel providers in their area that they are interested in,research it and make a informed decision based on that information.


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## Truman (Mar 8, 2006)

have to say since the new NR, my guide speed is _dramatically_ improved

i wonder if this ad will be running for very long? ;]


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

I'm happy to see this ad. The lack of a 3 hour, HD quality, fast-performing guide has long been my biggest complaint about DirecTV.

I still prefer the sports selection (duh!) and think (though I don't have scientific proof) that my D* system is less prone to rain fade than Dish Network (E*). I also love the OnDemand selection on D*, which is a life-saver when you have a toddler. It's also (GET THIS!) cheaper for me than E* given my package selection.

Still, the ad is a great thing. It will help push D* to come up with new equipment and new guides, software, etc. It's how competition works, and we're all better off for it, whether on D* or E*.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Truman said:


> have to say since the new NR, my guide speed is _dramatically_ improved
> 
> i wonder if this ad will be running for very long? ;]


Likely as long as they can milk it.....


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Interesting at how fast D* rolled out this latest update, and it is the first one in awhile that has really had a noticeable good impact on my guide speed. So this new strategy of Dishnet’s of pointing out the HR2X weaknesses, keep it up!
I am happy that it's lit a fire under some people’s butts at Dierectv


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

This latest update has been in the works for a while now and is defintely not something DirecTV just slapped together to combat the E* ad.

This is, at best, just a coincidence in the timing and not a response to - or a result of - the ad.


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## am7crew (Jun 6, 2009)

its true, if you say its not your crazy or dont have a HD DVR.


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## Truman (Mar 8, 2006)

heh, i'm going to go ahead and assume you didn't read through much of the thread before posting.

no one's going to argue that it's not true. all of us d* subscribers are (is _painfully_ too strong a word to use here?) aware of just how slow the guide can be.


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## am7crew (Jun 6, 2009)

I must take back part of my previous post. Lastnight I hooked up my HR22 and it did a software update which just said it added TVmail but had different/better font on the menu and box seems allot snappier, going through the guide is allot faster however its still a short delay in actually changing the channel. Good news is, maybe if Dish keeps saying these things it will get Directv to improve the boxes under the hood.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

Yeah the software update has helped the snappiness of the guide but some of the other features are still dead slow, like changing/selecting channels, navigating through recorded programs (ff/rew/pause response) etc.

Maybe working on each problem in bits is how they're doing it now.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Tom Servo said:


> I just saw ... an ad for Dish Network that aired on FNC touting their service... complete with a side-by-side pic comparing [Dish and DirecTV] speeds.
> 
> My first thought was, "Wow, that DirecTV guide is actually _faster_ than mine_!_"


My first thought on reading this was "How can you pick an HR2x box to compare with, when they're all so different in speed."

Lucky for DirecTV that Dish didn't have available one of DirecTV's _really_ slow boxes. (Even with 0x0368, a few users are reporting unbearable sluggishness.) But then, maybe viewers of the commercial wouldn't believe Dish hadn't faked the speed; no DVR could be _that_ slow!


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