# Instructed to plug VIP6222 directly into wall:



## Rick04 (Dec 27, 2007)

I’m on my third ViP622. Previous two would work for a week or two and then suddenly turn off and attempt to reboot. This continued repeatedly. Sometimes it would come back on after an hour or two; other times it may take a day. Nonetheless, after two receivers Dish tech support has now told me it has to do with the power source. They (I have had three different techs tell me this) explained that when plugged into a surge protector with other devices the receiver would sometimes not get enough power to function properly.

They have instructed me to plug this new (which is on the way) receiver directly into the wall. This concerns me because what if I get a power surge (lightning for example). While this would fry the receiver, would my TV, audio receiver, etc also be at risk. If that’s the case what’s my next move with Dish in order to protect my property.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Not sure I buy the explanation give to you, but I can help with your power surge worries.

The Dish ViP receiver has built-in DishComm + HomePlug, which allows for network connection over power lines through just the plugged-in power cord. This technologies usually requires a direct connection (rather than through a power strip) and is forced by design to include its own form of power surge protection.

Given that it is designed to be plugged straight into the wall, any lightning-induced failure *should* be something you could complain about since Dish is instructing you to plug it into the wall in order to use all the features built-in.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Rick04 said:


> I'm on my third ViP622. Previous two would work for a week or two and then suddenly turn off and attempt to reboot. This continued repeatedly. Sometimes it would come back on after an hour or two; other times it may take a day. Nonetheless, after two receivers Dish tech support has now told me it has to do with the power source. They (I have had three different techs tell me this) explained that when plugged into a surge protector with other devices the receiver would sometimes not get enough power to function properly.
> 
> They have instructed me to plug this new (which is on the way) receiver directly into the wall. This concerns me because what if I get a power surge (lightning for example). While this would fry the receiver, would my TV, audio receiver, etc also be at risk. If that's the case what's my next move with Dish in order to protect my property.


:welcome_s 
Unless you must take advantage of the built-in homeplug to connect to your network, I would not plug your receiver directly into an outlet. All my computers, receivers, TV's, etc. are plugged into a medium duty UPS. I believe that gives them a consistent power source and gives them the maximum protection against the things you mention.
My $.02 - which also gets Cinemax for two years.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Dish makes the receivers and they say it has built in power protection and recommend plugging directly into the wall. So, if you follow their recommendation and there is a failure, they are at fault not you. However, if you continue to use your UPS and it keeps burning up receivers, guess who's to blame? I would do as they recommend, at least until you are sure they are wrong and the new receiver fails like the ones using the UPS.


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

Having a DVR connected to a surge protector should not result in "not getting enough power." I have run Tripp Lite IsoBar surge protectors for years on TVs, Sat receivers, home theater gear, and ham gear. It makes no difference how many items you have plugged into a "strip." A good spike protector or UPS will have a cord that is capable of handling the amps available at the wall socket (usually 15-20 amps).

You don't want to run light-weight extension cords from a surge protector - to hang on more devices. I also have a Monster spike protector on my big amp, DVD player and CD player.

Now, with two HDTV sets side-by-side (DLP and LCD) and a 622 and a 722, I run them all into UPS computer backup supplies. We have frequent power cut-offs here in the sticks. The UPSs have voltage regulation, spike protection and battery backup.

As long as the power is on, it makes no difference how many devices you have plugged into the outlets on a UPS. They all will get their normal AC voltage. I run the 622/722/LCD into a 1500 VA APC UPS. During short power outages, I never see a blip on the screen and no problems with the 622/722. And my gear is spared the thermal shock of shutting on and off quickly, and a cooling fan not working, and so on.

Surge protectors and UPS supplies are not much help if your house or antenna, etc. gets hit by lightning. I know, as I have lost over $10,000 of home theater and ham gear - until I wised up and started pulling AC plugs, including on the computers, and pulling the coax from the OTA antenna feed - and my ham gear coaxes.

If you look at warranties, you will normally see that surge protectors and UPS supplies do NOT cover lightning damage. That is why they are so generous with their dollar coverage amounts. How do you prove that a *spike* caused $8,000 damage to your gear?

Since the usual way to run the HomePlug thing on the 622/722 is to plug the DVR directly into the wall, I have passed on that option for now. You can use an additional HomePlug and still use a UPS backup supply, as Dan Minnick noted on Tech Forum.

A neighbor recently took a hit from lightning. It came down the TV antenna and apparently entered the house via an outside AC cord for the pre-amp (really old install). It took out the computer, TVs, phones, blew out the Air Conditioner compressor and on and on.

It may be a lot of trouble and some folks might think it is overkill, but the first time you lose a 622/722, TV, and a computer from a lightning strike, you will, I am sure, get on the "pulling the plugs" bandwagon. You can still run your laptop on battery, but you better pull the modem cable. I once lost a bunch of internal computer boards when lightning entered via the phone line! And it blew out two phones.

As to the Ground Block on a Dish antenna: it may drain off static electricity buildup, but if lightning actually hits your dish, make sure your installer is on speed-dial. I have had to replace my WildBlue transmit/receive horn. I think it got tickled by a nearby lightning strike - and it is grounded to the utility ground.

I know that this post rambled on, but after 16 years of sitting out here in the open in some of the worst lightning storms you will ever see, and with power going on and off - sometimes several times a day - I am nearly an expert on these subjects. Nearly. Once, while on the ham-radio reporting on a storm, lightning hit my antenna, blew the plastic mike out of my hand and danced along the bench zapping gear here and there. That will get your attention.

After spending hundreds of dollars on sophisticated lightning arrestors and switches that grounded the coaxes, I arrived at the sure-fire solution. Put UPS supplies on everything in the Dish/TV setup and on all computers. Pull the AC plugs and antenna coaxes at the first sound of thunder. I have quick-disconnect F connectors on my OTA and Dish coaxes - and they no not seem to degrade the signals.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

ClarkBar said:


> ... I also have a Monster...


You lost me the moment I read this part.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

ClarkBar said:


> Since the usual way to run the HomePlug thing on the 622/722 is to plug the DVR directly into the wall, I have passed on that option for now. You can use an additional HomePlug and still use a UPS backup supply, as Dan Minnick noted on Tech Forum.


Keep in mind that this actually doesn't solve the problem you are intending to correct by plugging into a UPS. Think for a second here...

Plugging the ViP receiver power into a UPS protects but also inhibits the HomePlug from working. Using a HomePlug adapter and then connecting to your ethernet creates the same "danger" if there is one, since the HomePlug adapter has to be directly plugged into the wall.. so any lightning strike that hits your power has another way to the receiver.

The external HomePlug adapters have the same technology as what is built-in to the Dish receivers. If you read about HomePlug you'll find that surge protection is part of the design because their design requires you not use a UPS.

Bottom line... Surge protectors may or may not protect or provide warranty anyway, and HomePlug has the same level of surge protection as part of their design.

Some folks use a UPS to provide power smoothing or to prevent loss of functionality during a minor drop in power or some amount of battery backup during a complete power loss. IF you need those features, then you have to weigh that need against the desire not to plug into the wall for HomePlug.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

ClarkBar said:


> \Surge protectors and UPS supplies are not much help if your house or antenna, etc. gets hit by lightning. I know, as I have lost over $10,000 of home theater and ham gear - until I wised up and started pulling AC plugs, including on the computers, and pulling the coax from the OTA antenna feed - and my ham gear coaxes.


PanaMax surge protectors have $5000 warranty that covers all equipment plugged into their strips. The strips also have coax & phone line connections on them also. When I was a sat dealer used them all the time. Yes I had a customer lose a receiver 1 time and they paid for a replacement receiver. So there can be a way for it to get to the equipment even if it is protected by the best surge protectors. But at least with then they covered what they said they would. As far as lose Homeplug if you are using it then you can't use surge protection if you aren't then why care? Good surge protectors will carry as much amps as the circuit in a house. As I said good ones not the $7.95 power strip those are just outlet expanders. Have to agree about what bartendress said. W/ Monster you are just paying for the name.


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## 585960 (Feb 4, 2007)

whatchel1 said:


> PanaMax surge protectors have $5000 warranty that covers all equipment plugged into their strips. The strips also have coax & phone line connections on them also.


yeah, all the surge protecters with coax connections are low freq barrels. My advice is to NOT use the coax connection on any strip, just power, if you must.


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

ChuckA said:


> Dish makes the receivers and they say it has built in power protection and recommend plugging directly into the wall. So, if you follow their recommendation and there is a failure, they are at fault not you.


Just FYI, when I went to plug my 622 into the wall I noticed a sticker on the power cord that advised use of a surge protector. I don't know if yours has one, as mine was one of the earlier versions...


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

liferules said:


> Just FYI, when I went to plug my 622 into the wall I noticed a sticker on the power cord that advised use of a surge protector. I don't know if yours has one, as mine was one of the earlier versions...


Heed the warning.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

585960 said:


> yeah, all the surge protecters with coax connections are low freq barrels. My advice is to NOT use the coax connection on any strip, just power, if you must.


Panamax for satellite is rated for the freqs that are used by satellite. The following are all designed for sat coax protection: M8-HT, M8-HT-PRO, M10-HT-PRO, MFP-400, &PM8-HT. Please check the source before make an all encompassing statement like that. I will agree most are low freq designed for cable.


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

I had problems with my second 622. After three tries at csr roulette a very knowledgable women told me to plug it directly into the wall.
It has been flawless since.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I keep all my DVR's on a UPS. I've had 9 power outages in the last week, ranging from 2 seconds to 7 hours. Recording didn't miss a beat. Of course, I had to plug the UPS into my generator for the longer outage. Power by P.G. & E. aka Petty Graft and Extortion.

That includes two 10+ second brownouts and 1 obvious surge.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

steelhorse said:


> I had problems with my second 622. After three tries at csr roulette a very knowledgable women told me to plug it directly into the wall.
> It has been flawless since.


And what made you think she was "very knowledgable(sic)"? What did the others tell you? Were you looking for a specific answer?


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## epontius (Jul 19, 2007)

steelhorse said:


> I had problems with my second 622. After three tries at csr roulette a very knowledgable women told me to plug it directly into the wall.
> It has been flawless since.


I've seen this tactic before....had you had it plugged into the wall, she would have told you to plug it into a surge protector. In most cases, plugging directly into a wall socket is a troubleshooting step in determining where a problem may lie (with the outlet or with the surge protector or the unit), but not a final resolution. Now you have determined that the surge protector may have been causing the problem you were experiencing and you can concentrate on determining what might be the problem with the surge protector. Surge protectors can "go bad" over time or be poorly constructed. Getting another better quality surge protector might be a good step. Leaving you equipment unprotected from power surges (lightning, etc...) can be risky, often electronic equipment warranties do not cover surges...being that the Dish receiver manual and the sticker on the cord recommend using a surge protector, you can bet that they may not honor a replacement due to a surge.
Had the problem still occurred when plugged into the wall, the next step would have been to plug it into a different outlet in a different room/circuit to eliminate the outlet and wiring. The the same problem were to exist it would be a higher probability that the problem lies in the unit. 
Having done phone based technical support for a major PC manufacturer for a number of years in the past, I'm a strong believer in troubleshooting as much as possible before contacting support. The majority of technical support reps are following decision trees containing much of the same information and troubleshooting steps that are located on their support web pages.

Erik


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## steelhorse (Apr 27, 2004)

TulsaOK said:


> And what made you think she was "very knowledgable(sic)"? What did the others tell you? Were you looking for a specific answer?


I thought she was knowledgable as she actually believed me when I told her I had already checked all wire connections. The two previous csr's I spoke with were reading off a script and seemed to know nothing about the unit they were troubleshooting.
They both began with the, "is your tv on the correct input". Then went to unplug the box, then sys info screen. I had the sys info screen up when one of the csr's came on the line. She still insisted that I reboot and go back to that screen.


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

If you have a UPS, and not just a surge protector, that could be the problem. Some cheaper UPS's do not produce a very good AC sine wave. It is more chopped (switching DC instead of a smooth AC) and some devices don't like that kind of power.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

jkane said:


> If you have a UPS, and not just a surge protector, that could be the problem. Some cheaper UPS's do not produce a very good AC sine wave. It is more chopped (switching DC instead of a smooth AC) and some devices don't like that kind of power.


In addition, cheap UPS units are a waste of money because the batteries die much sooner than a quality unit. Not a good place to cut corners, says the guy with sad experiences.


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## JhelmoreII (Feb 17, 2007)

I also burned up two 622 units and am now on my third. I found my solution with the fact that my original wiring dates to 1919 and was knob and tube at that specific outlet plug. I had previously upgraded my panel, my ground system and lots of other wiring in the house. Just not that outlet which provided power to the 622. 

Now that I have run an extension cord to a properly grounded three wire outlet my third unit has continued to function without problems and has already lasted longer than the first two. It is my understanding that the 622 draws a lot of power even when idle (off/standby) and my ungrounded knob and tube circa 1919 wiring just was not stable enough.


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