# (NEW) DECA connecting and disconnecting at random



## xmguy

I've had this SWiM and DECA system since April but it's been unused because my account was self suspended (long story). Nevertheless I brought the service back on today and noticed my receivers keep connecting and disconnecting from the DECA cloud. I'll try to access a playlist for say my R22 with my HR24 and it will say all of the sudden it's not connected. Then maybe I'll try and watch something and it will stop and say it was disconnected. I checked the DECA broadband adapter and the DECA modules. Green across the board. All receivers (HR24, 2 R22s and a HR21) show they are connected to the net. I was even downloading from DOD (DirecTV on Demand) and the connection dropped then reconnected. I'm not sure what's going on. Never had this issue prior to DECA when I had the WH running via Ethernet. Ideas?


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## veryoldschool

I'm guessing the RF signal part of the coax network is fine, as you're getting green LEDs.
This suggests there are problems with the packets being sent.
One question is where is the PI?
If it's too close to say the HR24, it's been known to give this type of problem.


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## xmguy

veryoldschool said:


> I'm guessing the RF signal part of the coax network is fine, as you're getting green LEDs.
> This suggests there are problems with the packets being sent.
> One question is where is the PI?
> If it's too close to say the HR24, it's been known to give this type of problem.


Thank you VOS for replying. You are a legend so I know Im in good hands

Are you referring to the Internet/Ethernet bridge, or the PI for the SWiM?

PI is in my basement. Far away from the receivers. At least in coax terms.

Bridge is next to the HR24. But as with the PI is far away from the splitter/SWiM multi switch.


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## veryoldschool

Well darn, it doesn't sound like the PI location will be it.
Now we need to look other places.

Might as well verify the coax networking isn't reporting any problems.

On the HR24, if you run a system test it will report a error if there is low throughput, so it's worth checking.

Another thing would be to run the detailed coax networking tests, by pressing the guide & right arrow on the front panel of the 24. This can take a few tries before you get into it and see a screen with coax on the left.
When there select coax and it will show all of the DECA nodes and the loss to each.
At the bottom will show the number of dropped sessions. 
Next is the Phy rate Mesh, which shows a matrix of the rates between all the nodes.

Posting the results will show any problems.

If there aren't any, then I'd start thinking the router may be having some affect, so disconnecting the CCK to the router and then rebooting all of the receivers so they change over to their internal IP addresses [169.xx], would be my next step. Running in this state should show if it's still on the DirecTV side, or not.


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## xmguy

"veryoldschool" said:


> Well darn, it doesn't sound like the PI location will be it.
> Now we need to look other places.
> 
> Might as well verify the coax networking isn't reporting any problems.
> 
> On the HR24, if you run a system test it will report a error if there is low throughput, so it's worth checking.
> 
> Another thing would be to run the detailed coax networking tests, by pressing the guide & right arrow on the front panel of the 24. This can take a few tries before you get into it and see a screen with coax on the left.
> When there select coax and it will show all of the DECA nodes and the loss to each.
> At the bottom will show the number of dropped sessions.
> Next is the Phy rate Mesh, which shows a matrix of the rates between all the nodes.
> 
> Posting the results will show any problems.
> 
> If there aren't any, then I'd start thinking the router may be having some affect, so disconnecting the CCK to the router and then rebooting all of the receivers so they change over to their internal IP addresses [169.xx], would be my next step. Running in this state should show if it's still on the DirecTV side, or not.


From the Diag screen for Coax


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## veryoldschool

yep, so this isn't a DECA/coax networking problem.
Those screens show everything is working fine.

Now on to if the router is having an affect and time to remove it from the coax network and test the network without it, by seeing if the problem continues.


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## xmguy

"veryoldschool" said:


> yep, so this isn't a DECA/coax networking problem.
> Those screens show everything is working fine.
> 
> Now on to if the router is having an affect and time to remove it from the coax network and test the network without it, by seeing if the problem continues.


OK do I just unplug the Ethernet adapter? Also will the DECA still work without it. Should the boxes still beable to see each other even if the router is to blame?


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## veryoldschool

xmguy said:


> OK do I just unplug the Ethernet adapter? Also will the DECA still work without it. Should the boxes still beable to see each other even if the router is to blame?


You can simply pull the ethernet connection to your router.
Then reboot each receiver for each to change to their internal IP address.
Once they all find each other, you can start testing if the playback is OK or not.


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## xmguy

"veryoldschool" said:


> You can simply pull the ethernet connection to your router.
> Then reboot each receiver for each to change to their internal IP address.
> Once they all find each other, you can start testing if the playback is OK or not.


 will they still find their own ip address if they're running on static ip addresses? We be better to have the receivers on DHCP or static?


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## veryoldschool

xmguy said:


> will they still find their own ip address if they're running on static ip addresses? We be better to have the receivers on DHCP or static?


If you've gone "static" that's another wrinkle that needs to be reset.
Before going to no router, reset each receiver's network defaults, or they can't change over to their internal IP without a router.


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## xmguy

"veryoldschool" said:


> If you've gone "static" that's another wrinkle that needs to be reset.
> Before going to no router, reset each receiver's network defaults, or they can't change over to their internal IP without a router.


I reset each networked receiver to network defaults. Seems to work OK. I'll leave them on Dynamic.


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## Rtm

Im having this same issue to with a Wired BB DECA the nomad and iPad app is having trouble seeing my receivers suddenly I've rebooted a bunch of times and tried static (DHCP reservations) and just dynamic and reset a bunch and I'm still having issues.

I have SWM16 with 2-green label 8-way splitters. Is there anything wrong with my COAX network stats?


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## veryoldschool

Rtm said:


> Im having this same issue to with a Wired BB DECA the nomad and iPad app is having trouble seeing my receivers suddenly I've rebooted a bunch of times and tried static (DHCP reservations) and just dynamic and reset a bunch and I'm still having issues.
> 
> I have SWM16 with 2-green label 8-way splitters. Is there anything wrong with my COAX network stats?


Your coax networking shots look fine.
The losses in the second photo are a bit high [still within range] and I only count eight devices, so two 8-ways might be better if they were 4-ways, but this isn't your problem.


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## Rtm

veryoldschool said:


> Your coax networking shots look fine.
> The losses in the second photo are a bit high [still within range] and I only count eight devices, so two 8-ways might be better if they were 4-ways, but this isn't your problem.


Thanks a bunch. Do you have an idea why they might be high? And why isone listed as n/a because it's the receiver I'm at?

3 receivers are on one 8way the other 4 on the other 8 way they all have the medal caps on the, though the unused


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## veryoldschool

Rtm said:


> Thanks a bunch. Do you have an idea why they might be high? And why is one listed as n/a because it's the receiver I'm at?
> 
> 3 receivers are on one 8way the other 4 on the other 8 way they all have the medal caps on the, though the unused


The N/A is because a receiver can't measure the loss to itself.

Loss is the nature of sending RF signals, so managing it is what's needed.

"All those metal caps" are terminations used for ports that don't have receivers. These have a resistor to match the impedance and end up sending the RF signals into the resistor instead of having it go to a receiver where "you" get some use out of it.
Using splitters than aren't as large, means you have less loss and don't need to terminate as many unused ports. [all unused still need to be, but there are simply less].
The SWiM-16 also has more loss in its crossover path between the two outputs.
In your tests, I saw a 40 dB loss path, which is still below the 45 dB limit than starts to cause network problems.
Your network wouldn't work any better with only 30 dB of loss, so the point is you're still within range, but aren't as flexible to making changes before you do reach the limit.
"Also" the larger splitters affect the SAT signals too and this might cause rainfade slightly earlier than with less loss.


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## Rtm

veryoldschool said:


> The N/A is because a receiver can't measure the loss to itself.
> 
> Loss is the nature of sending RF signals, so managing it is what's needed.
> 
> "All those metal caps" are terminations used for ports that don't have receivers. These have a resistor to match the impedance and end up sending the RF signals into the resistor instead of having it go to a receiver where "you" get some use out of it.
> Using splitters than aren't as large, means you have less loss and don't need to terminate as many unused ports. [all unused still need to be, but there are simply less].
> The SWiM-16 also has more loss in its crossover path between the two outputs.
> In your tests, I saw a 40 dB loss path, which is still below the 45 dB limit than starts to cause network problems.
> Your network wouldn't work any better with only 30 dB of loss, so the point is you're still within range, but aren't as flexible to making changes before you do reach the limit.
> "Also" the larger splitters affect the SAT signals too and this might cause rainfade slightly earlier than with less loss.


K thanks I decided to order 2 MSPLIT4R1-03 so hopefully it will help some minor issues I've been having. Idk why I would have such bad stats on all rg-6 besides the runs might be a little long. But all 7 receivers plus the bb deca = 8


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## xmguy

To jump back in here. Would it help for sync and internet linking if the receivers or router go out, to change to Static IP again? I've read that if the receivers start up without the router linked then the receivers will switch to internalized IP addresses even after the router is online.


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## Rtm

xmguy said:


> To jump back in here. Would it help for sync and internet linking if the receivers or router go out, to change to Static IP again? I've read that if the receivers start up without the router linked then the receivers will switch to internalized IP addresses even after the router is online.


You shouldn't have static Ip address try just dynamic, no address reservation/static then unplug your bb deca and restart your router leaving the broadband deca unplugged, then plug it back in, now go push the red button on each receiver and you shouldn't have a problem anymore. Something is really weird with mine right now

What kind of router are you using might I ask?

Tonight mine all gained an up after I plugged my broadband deca back After i had reset them all and they had 168.254 or whatever u
Ips


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## xmguy

"Rtm" said:


> You shouldn't have static Ip address try just dynamic, no address reservation/static then unplug your bb deca and restart your router leaving the broadband deca unplugged, then plug it back in, now go push the red button on each receiver and you shouldn't have a problem anymore. Something is really weird with mine right now
> 
> What kind of router are you using might I ask?
> 
> Tonight mine all gained an up after I plugged my broadband deca back After i had reset them all and they had 168.254 or whatever u
> Ips


I have a Linksys WRT150N. With DD-WRT Custom firmware.


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## Rtm

xmguy said:


> I have a Linksys WRT150N. With DD-WRT Custom firmware.


Apple Time Capsule here


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## KarenRichmond

This is going to be long so apologizes but wanted to get the whole saga out there!

We have had Whole Home for over 2 years now. Two weeks ago one of our boxes suddenly started having issues "communicating with dish." It would happen, reset and then be ok. After calling and talking to Tech support twice they set up for someone to come out since the tests showed dish out of alignment. This was only happening on one of the DVRs. 

The tech came out Monday of last week. He did several things and we wonder whether it was all needed or not. This included realignment, changed multiswitch in attic, changed connectors, and changed the splitter in the room with the DVR that was having issues (we have 2 boxes in that room hooked up to 2 TVs). Upon putting everything back up the DVR in the Master bedroom was not on the network. He fixed this, things seemed good and he left after about 2.5 hours. This would be the start of 2 weeks of problems!

Later that day we started having all sorts of WH problems with the BR DVR. We would be watching something from it in another room and the BR DVR would drop off the network. DVR in that room was fine when we went to check and would come back. I called back and they came out the next day.

Next day they replaced the Deca in the BR. Said that if it continued they wanted to replace the DVR which I didn't want because there is a lot on it. This measure later in the day/night caused different DVRs to start dropping off while watching recordings.

Next day they put a splitter in (as in above posts) at the PI. At the time things looked ok, but the living room (where the initial problem was) and my son's room on HD channels had horrible reception (pixels, etc) and my son's room couldn't use the WH at all.

Next day out again, splitter out, wanted to start replacing boxes (I didn't thin was an issue since individually all worked fine and recordings played fine) and talked about a 16 multiswitch, although we only use 8 tuners and things were fine until the original service call. Tech said he would get his supervisor on phone and then left while I walked inside to make a call. No return phone call.

Next day, I called again and they set up a new apt for Monday of this week. This tech put a new cinema (name?) on the coax going to the router taking out the old Deca in there (this Tech and his supervisor accompanying him made it clear they did not like Decas). As for my son's room, they replaced his box (just HD, no DVR) with a new one, again to dispose of the Deca in there). Things looked good again until the next day.

The kitchen DVR started having some signal issues, however, until last night (3 days later) the WH seemed good until the same things started happening (i.e. watching something recorded in a different room and messages keep popping up that boxes drop off). The Tech was suppose to come out yesterday but keep putting me off til later until I finally at 6 p.m. told him to wait til today.

Last night my husband pulled up the network coax info as in an above post and all looked fine. And IP addresses looked fine too.

So here is our setup:
HD DVR (HR 22) in Master bedroom
HD DVR (HR 24) in kitchen
HD DVR (HR 22) in Living Room and a standard box in the living room on a separate TV.
HD (H24) in son's room.

Any ideas anyone?


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> This is going to be long so apologizes but wanted to get the whole saga out there!
> 
> So here is our setup:
> HD DVR (HR 22) in Master bedroom
> HD DVR (HR 24) in kitchen
> HD DVR (HR 22) in Living Room and a standard box in the living room on a separate TV.
> HD (H24) in son's room.
> 
> Any ideas anyone?


Being a visual type, it would sure help to get "a picture" of your system.
You need five posts before you can post one here.

I see two problems:
The SAT signals.
The DECA networking.

You have a H24 & HR24, which means you can test the DECA with each.

On the front panel, pressing the guide & right arrow [both at the same time] will bring up a menu with coax on the left. This menu may take a few tries before it comes up the first time, so keep trying.

When the menu comes up, select coax and it will test and show the loss between receivers/DECAs.

Running this test from both 24s and posting what the screens show would help.


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## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Being a visual type, it would sure help to get "a picture" of your system.
> You need five posts before you can post one here.
> 
> I see two problems:
> The SAT signals.
> The DECA networking.
> 
> You have a H24 & HR24, which means you can test the DECA with each.
> 
> On the front panel, pressing the guide & right arrow [both at the same time] will bring up a menu with coax on the left. This menu may take a few tries before it comes up the first time, so keep trying.
> 
> When the menu comes up, select coax and it will test and show the loss between receivers/DECAs.
> 
> Running this test from both 24s and posting what the screens show would help.


Since you said I can't post an actual picture I can just tell you the values I guess.

On HR24 the Phy Levels are -24, N/A (assume this is this box) -25, -23, -22.

On H24 -24, -25, n/a, -26, -29


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Since you said I can't post an actual picture I can just tell you the values I guess.
> 
> On HR24 the Phy Levels are -24, N/A (assume this is this box) -25, -23, -22.
> 
> On H24 -24, -25, n/a, -26, -29


Keep it up and you'll have the five posts needed. :lol:

Those show the losses between your receivers are well within range.

In a way this doesn't help, as it doesn't show the problem.

Your techs not liking DECA suggests they don't understand it well.

Did you happen to look at the "dropped sessions" count at the bottom of the screens?


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## KarenRichmond

Yes, it said 0.

Yes, I am closing in on 5


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## KarenRichmond

One addition to visit 1 by a Tech...he also replaced the LNB saying that perhaps it was causing issues due to the 100+ degree temps for the last several weeks. And again, my husband was home that day as well and we still believe he did more work than needed to fix the initial problem.


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Yes, it said 0.
> 
> Yes, I am closing in on 5


So the zero count shows the RF signal of the DECA hasn't lost connection.

This means when the receiver says it's lost connection, it's a networking issue, but not the DECAs themselves.

Now we're needing to look at "packets" not responding.

You have a power inserter for the SWiM, which should be a black box.

Where is it located and what's connected [if anything] to it?


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## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> So the zero count shows the RF signal of the DECA hasn't lost connection.
> 
> This means when the receiver says it's lost connection, it's a networking issue, but not the DECAs themselves.
> 
> Now we're needing to look at "packets" not responding.
> 
> You have a power inserter for the SWiM, which should be a black box.
> 
> Where is it located and what's connected [if anything] to it?


It is in the Master Bedroom. From wall to PI then to the box in that room. They tried putting a splitter in there on day 3 and it caused the Living Room and my son's room to have horrible signal, pixels breaking up and like pauses. It came out.


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> It is in the Master Bedroom. From wall to PI then to the box in that room. They tried putting a splitter in there on day 3 and it caused the Living Room and my son's room to have horrible signal, pixels breaking up and like pauses. It came out.


So they were following a bulletin that came out for things like this.
It doesn't exactly fit with your problem "unless" it's the MB DVR dropping off line.

Now what is VERY STRANGE is that shouldn't have caused problems with the other receivers.
Too much loss could cause signal issues, but it would be with the MB receiver, and not the others.

You're at 5 posts now, so even a crappy sketch would help.


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## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> So they were following a bulletin that came out for things like this.
> It doesn't exactly fit with your problem "unless" it's the MB DVR dropping off line.
> 
> Now what is VERY STRANGE is that shouldn't have caused problems with the other receivers.
> Too much loss could cause signal issues, but it would be with the MB receiver, and not the others.
> 
> You're at 5 posts now, so even a crappy sketch would help.


At first it was just the MB one dropping but then after they touched it again, it started being all of them.

Not sure what you want me to sketch.


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> At first it was just the MB one dropping but then after they touched it again, it started being all of them.
> 
> Not sure what you want me to sketch.


This thread has some setups that give a good picture: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=200573


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## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> This thread has some setups that give a good picture: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=200573


How's this.

PI - Deca - MR HD DVR
\ 
\
Dish - SWiM 8 - Kitchen HD DVR (no Deca)
\ 
\ --Deca - Living Room HD DVR --Flatscreen TV 
-- SD box - separate TV in Living Room

\ son's room HD (no Deca, no DVR)

\cable to Cinema (name?) to router (This was a Deca that was replaced in this saga with the "new" box)

What may not be clear is the Living Room, there is a splitter and it goes to Deca- HD-HD TV and off splitter to SD to small TV for extra football game viewing. Also every time I save this message it left justifies everything. I can try to make a better sketch


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> How's this.
> 
> PI - Deca - MR HD DVR
> \
> \
> Dish - SWiM 8 - Kitchen HD DVR (no Deca)
> \
> \ --Deca - Living Room HD DVR --Flatscreen TV
> -- SD box - separate TV in Living Room
> 
> \ son's room HD (no Deca, no DVR)
> 
> \cable to Cinema (name?) to router (This was a Deca that was replaced in this saga with the "new" box)
> 
> What may not be clear is the Living Room, there is a splitter and it goes to Deca- HD-HD TV and off splitter to SD to small TV for extra football game viewing. Also every time I save this message it left justifies everything. I can try to make a better sketch


"Yeah" the forum software always does that.

Are you sure you have a SWM8?
Do you have four coax from the dish to it?
If only one, then it's an 8-way splitter and the SWiM is in/at the dish.
"Son's room" has a H24, so the DECA is internal.
Living room has a 2-way splitter, that should have a green label.
The "SD Box" should have a bandstop filter [red with a pigtail to the receiver].

The PI -> DECA -> MR DVR should only cause a problem [if it is] with recordings from the MR DVR to other receivers.
The kitchen from living room shouldn't be affected.

"cable to Cinema" [cinema connection kit, aka CCK, BB DECA, goes by many]


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## KarenRichmond

Here's a better picture

Items with * have just been replaced to attempt to fix the problem


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## veryoldschool

Thanks that does help.

I have asked a few question just before this.


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## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> "Yeah" the forum software always does that.
> 
> Are you sure you have a SWM8?
> Do you have four coax from the dish to it?
> If only one, then it's an 8-way splitter and the SWiM is in/at the dish.
> "Son's room" has a H24, so the DECA is internal.
> Living room has a 2-way splitter, that should have a green label.
> The "SD Box" should have a bandstop filter [red with a pigtail to the receiver].
> 
> The PI -> DECA -> MR DVR should only cause a problem [if it is] with recordings from the MR DVR to other receivers.
> The kitchen from living room shouldn't be affected.
> 
> "cable to Cinema" [cinema connection kit, aka CCK, BB DECA, goes by many]


I believe SWiM is at dish. yes to the red with pigtail to SD box
and, yes, things shouldn't be affected but they are. Each time they "fix" something it causes a new issue.

Everything worked fine for 2 years until they came out for the original problem and I still think he did more than needed and caused this mess


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## veryoldschool

So I'm seeing:


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## samrs

KarenRichmond said:


> Everything worked fine for 2 years until they came out for the original problem and I still think he did more than needed and caused this mess


If I come out because you can't program the remote to your new tv, I have to start at the dish and bring everything up to current specs. It's what Directv expects.

A DVR in single tunner mode really bugs some techs. You might want to check that.


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> I believe SWiM is at dish. yes to the red with pigtail to SD box
> and, yes, things shouldn't be affected but they are. Each time they "fix" something it causes a new issue.
> 
> Everything worked fine for 2 years until they came out for the original problem and I still think he did more than needed and caused this mess





samrs said:


> If I come out because you can't program the remote to your new tv, I have to start at the dish and bring everything up to current specs. It's what Directv expects.
> 
> A DVR in single tunner mode really bugs some techs. You might want to check that.


The SWiM is fully loaded, with the max 8 tuners. Getting the R16 in dual tuner mode will require a SWiM-16. [might not be a bad idea]

When the tech added a splitter for the PI, and signal issues started, it must have been due to the PI not powering the SWiMLNB well enough.
The common PI is a 21 volt, but the other PI is 29 volt and might be worth a try.
Without being there to sort through everything it's hard to sort out this.
Troubleshooting the playback issues to between "x & y" would help, and this might take moving/swapping receivers around.
I doubt anyone wants to go into the attic and check if the cables are tight and the three unused ports on the splitter have terminations.
"Normally" DECA isn't bothered by open ports, but SAT signals are.


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## samrs

I counted... I was just suggesting the tech might have changed it.


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## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> The SWiM is fully loaded, with the max 8 tuners. Getting the R16 in dual tuner mode will require a SWiM-16. [might not be a bad idea]
> 
> When the tech added a splitter for the PI, and signal issues started, it must have been due to the PI not powering the SWiMLNB well enough.
> The common PI is a 21 volt, but the other PI is 29 volt and might be worth a try.
> Without being there to sort through everything it's hard to sort out this.
> Troubleshooting the playback issues to between "x & y" would help, and this might take moving/swapping receivers around.
> I doubt anyone wants to go into the attic and check if the cables are tight and the three unused ports on the splitter have terminations.
> "Normally" DECA isn't bothered by open ports, but SAT signals are.


I don't want the R16 in dual. I never use it except for the second football game on Sundays.

I checked the PI and it is 21 so I can throw the 29 volt one at them as an idea.

They did go through the attic at least once (day 1 for sure when he changed out the MSPLIT8R0-01 (he left the old one so I am looking at it) and changed the LNB on the dish. He said all connections were tight.

I am not sure what else at this point either. Not to mention the frustration factor!


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> I don't want the R16 in dual. I never use it except for the second football game on Sundays.
> 
> I checked the PI and it is 21 so I can throw the 29 volt one at them as an idea.
> 
> They did go through the attic at least once (day 1 for sure when he changed out the MSPLIT8R0-01 (he left the old one so I am looking at it) and changed the LNB on the dish. He said all connections were tight.
> 
> I am not sure what else at this point either. Not to mention the *frustration factor!*


Which is what I wish I had more help for.


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## Shades228

Just out of curiosity did anything else get added to your network around that time? There are settings in some modem/routers that only allow a certain amount, range, of IP addresses for DHCP. If you exceed this then it could cause things to drop off. However it usually would be more random than one specific device.


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## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> Just out of curiosity did anything else get added to your network around that time? There are settings in some modem/routers that only allow a certain amount, range, of IP addresses for DHCP. If you exceed this then it could cause things to drop off. However it usually would be more random than one specific device.


We tried that theory--unplug, reboot, etc, etc. That is supposedly why they changed the Deca on that coax going to the router to the "new" cinema thing.


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## Shades228

KarenRichmond said:


> We tried that theory--unplug, reboot, etc, etc. That is supposedly why they changed the Deca on that coax going to the router to the "new" cinema thing.


None of that would impact your settings in your router. So did you add any new devices to your network including non DIRECTV devices?


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## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> None of that would impact your settings in your router. So did you add any new devices to your network including non DIRECTV devices?[/QUOTE
> 
> Disconnected the cinema switch coax from the wall. Going to see what this does for a few days. The Tech came over again this afternoon and basically was his only suggestion other than testing electrical outlets.


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Disconnected the cinema switch coax from the wall. Going to see what this does for a few days. The Tech came over again this afternoon and basically was his only suggestion other than testing electrical outlets.


With it disconnected from the router, each receiver will need a reboot to shift to their internal IP addresses of 169.xxx
In this state, it's a "closed loop" and all on DirecTV to sort out.


----------



## Shades228

KarenRichmond said:


> Shades228 said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of that would impact your settings in your router. So did you add any new devices to your network including non DIRECTV devices?[/QUOTE
> 
> Disconnected the cinema switch coax from the wall. Going to see what this does for a few days. The Tech came over again this afternoon and basically was his only suggestion other than testing electrical outlets.
> 
> 
> 
> He should have gotten your install up to code as well.
> 
> 
> 
> veryoldschool said:
> 
> 
> 
> With it disconnected from the router, each receiver will need a reboot to shift to their internal IP addresses of 169.xxx
> In this state, it's a "closed loop" and all on DirecTV to sort out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is true and the fact that they're not updating it correctly makes me wonder about the products and quality of work done.
Click to expand...


----------



## RobertE

Are these the first gen white decas or the new 2nd gen black ones? If they are the 2nd gen, there is a problem with some of them where the pigtail isn't fully attached. What needs to be done on the black ones is that the shrink tubing near the deca itself needs to be cut and the fitting tightened.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> With it disconnected from the router, each receiver will need a reboot to shift to their internal IP addresses of 169.xxx
> In this state, it's a "closed loop" and all on DirecTV to sort out.


Yes, did that and last night the WH seemed OK, but I want to see it work a few days without issue.

However, the new issue this week with the kitchen DVR happened again during the night so I am now assuming that is a truly new issue? or maybe still related to something from the Day 1 Tech.


----------



## KarenRichmond

RobertE said:


> Are these the first gen white decas or the new 2nd gen black ones? If they are the 2nd gen, there is a problem with some of them where the pigtail isn't fully attached. What needs to be done on the black ones is that the shrink tubing near the deca itself needs to be cut and the fitting tightened.


Originally the white ones. They replaced the BR one with a black one and the problem has occurred with both.


----------



## KarenRichmond

samrs said:


> If I come out because you can't program the remote to your new tv, I have to start at the dish and bring everything up to current specs. It's what Directv expects.
> 
> A DVR in single tunner mode really bugs some techs. You might want to check that.


Why does it "bug" them? and check what particularly?


----------



## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> KarenRichmond said:
> 
> 
> 
> He should have gotten your install up to code as well.
> 
> This is true and the fact that they're not updating it correctly makes me wonder about the products and quality of work done.
> 
> 
> 
> I suggested yesterday when he came out again (also note that we have had different technicians several times but only the same one this week) that perhaps something was "bad" that was put in to "upgrade" and that idea was shrugged off.
Click to expand...


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> I suggested yesterday when he came out again (also note that we have had different technicians several times but only the same one this week) that perhaps something was "bad" that was put in to "upgrade" and that idea was shrugged off.


This whole thing has wandered all over the map. [not your problem]

There are a few things to sort out:


Are all the receivers getting SAT signals and channels?
yes? then the techs are going to start drawing a blank.
No? then they need to sort out the problem and should be able to.

Playback problems.
From what we went through yesterday, it wasn't a DECA problem. The techs can only sort through those.
If it's a packet issue, the techs are limited as this is an area they haven't been taught. Changing the PI location/add a splitter is about all they've been given.
If it works in "closed loop", then the techs are off the hook and it points to your router.
If it doesn't work in "closed loop", then the best the tech is going to do is "shotgun" hardware swaps at it.


----------



## KarenRichmond

No, they are not all getting this SAT issue. It appears it is only the kitchen one doing this and only since Tuesday. 

As for the PI, they have tried the splitter and it caused issues in 2 other rooms of horrible picture quality. Upon taking it out, that immediately went away. What's involved in changing its location?

So far (less than 24 hours) the WH is working out taking the router out of the picture, but we did see it go a day or two this week (with the router in plya) and thought all was well and had it start again so jury is still out on that one.


----------



## KarenRichmond

Should the PI be centrally located in the house or in the room closest to the dish (right now it is in the MR and the dish is on the roof of that room)?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> So far (less than 24 hours) the WH is working out taking the router out of the picture, but we did see it go a day or two this week (with the router in play) and thought all was well and had it start again so jury is still out on that one.


Run it hard and long.
If it doesn't give you any problems, then go back to the router connection.
If it comes back, start sorting out the router problems. Reboots and factory reset [should have a recessed button, or the like] would be what I'd try. It's helped for me before and sometimes for others here.


----------



## KarenRichmond

Would you think the SAT issue on the one box is just a coincidence and not related to any of the past 2 weeks problems and be the box going out?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Would you think the SAT issue on the one box is just a coincidence and not related to any of the past 2 weeks problems and be the box going out?


Maybe I missed something here.
I though any SAT problems went away when they removed the PI splitter?


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe I missed something here.
> I though any SAT problems went away when they removed the PI splitter?


yes this has been such a crazy thing for the last 2 weeks, it is hard to keep up!

Taking out the splitter fixed the picture issues in 2 rooms that it had apparently caused last week, but Tuesday this week we started seeing intermittent SAT issues on the kitchen box, i.e. it would say searching for SAT 2 and then fix itself quickly but change the channel to VH1.


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> but Tuesday this week we started seeing intermittent SAT issues on the kitchen box, i.e. it would say searching for SAT 2 and then fix itself quickly but change the channel to VH1.


Is this still happening?
If so, look into the signal level menu, but look at the SWM page and check both tuners.
Post what it shows.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Is this still happening?
> If so, look into the signal level menu, but look at the SWM page and check both tuners.
> Post what it shows.


satellite transponders (9 total at SWM)

Tuner 2 
1-8 100 0 100 100 100 100 0 0
9-16 0 rest N/A

Tuner 1

1-8 98 0 10 98 99 99 0 0
9-16 0 rest N/A


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> satellite transponders (9 total at SWM)
> 
> Tuner 2
> 1-8 100 0 100 100 100 100 0 0
> 9-16 0 rest N/A
> 
> Tuner 1
> 
> 1-8 98 0 10*0* 98 99 99 0 0
> 9-16 0 rest N/A


Sure ^ wasn't what you meant?

1 is the guide channel common to all receivers.
2-9 are the program channels for each tuner.
The zeros come from these channels being used by other tuners currently.

It might be a pain, but can you set all the receivers on the signal screen?

If you do, then back in this receiver, you should have all the zeros disappear and get a good reading of all the channels.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Sure ^ wasn't what you meant?
> 
> 1 is the guide channel common to all receivers.
> 2-9 are the program channels for each tuner.
> The zeros come from these channels being used by other tuners currently.
> 
> It might be a pain, but can you set all the receivers on the signal screen?
> 
> If you do, then back in this receiver, you should have all the zeros disappear and get a good reading of all the channels.


Yes I left off the 0, sorry about that.

None of the other receivers were on when I ran that


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Yes I left off the 0, sorry about that.
> 
> None of the other receivers were on when I ran that


Yes I know, or could guess by the number of zeros.
Each time a receiver boots up, it acquires one or two channels for tuners. You need to either pull the power cord, or select the SAT level menu/screens to have it release the channels it's been assigned by the SWiM.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Yes I know, or could guess by the number of zeros.
> Each time a receiver boots up, it acquires one or two channels for tuners. You need to either pull the power cord, or select the SAT level menu/screens to have it release the channels it's been assigned by the SWiM.


Although I am totally confused here ya go...

MR BR
tuner 1 100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 N/A
tuner 2 100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 N/A

Kitchen
tuner 1 98 99 98 99 97 98 98 100
100 N/A
tuner 2 100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 N/A

Living Room
Tuner 1 100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 N/A
tuner 2 100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 N/A

Extra Living Room
100 100 100 99 98 100 100 100
99 N/A

Son's
100 98 98 100 98 99 100 100 
100 N/A


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Although I am totally confused here ya go...
> 
> Kitchen
> tuner 1 98 99 98 99 97 98 98 100
> 100 N/A
> tuner 2 100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
> 100 N/A


This is/was the one with problems, right?
What this is showing is the receiver and the SWiM aren't showing any problems with the feed.
So I'm back to asking if this receiver has had any problems with the SAT channels "since" the tech was out and swapped everything [after the PI "thing"]?
If so, then this receiver might have a problem, and swapping it might be the next step.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> This is/was the one with problems, right?
> What this is showing is the receiver and the SWiM aren't showing any problems with the feed.
> So I'm back to asking if this receiver has had any problems with the SAT channels "since" the tech was out and swapped everything [after the PI "thing"]?
> If so, then this receiver might have a problem, and swapping it might be the next step.


Yes, it had no problems before he tried the switch at the PI or with the switch at the PI and it did not start having issues until this week. Now it intermittently freezes showing it is having a problem with SAT 2, fixes itself and then changes to VH1 from whatever channel I had on. Also if this happens during the night and I have something set to record early a.m. even though it says it is recording the right now it is recording whatever is on VH1. Simply changing the channel back and forth fixes that.

Ok..so if I have to change this receiver out, I have a lot recorded on it so is there anyway to dump it to an external drive or something?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Yes, it had no problems before he tried the switch at the PI or with the switch at the PI and it did not start having issues until this week. Now it intermittently freezes showing it is having a problem with SAT 2, fixes itself and then changes to VH1 from whatever channel I had on. Also if this happens during the night and I have something set to record early a.m. even though it says it is recording the right now it is recording whatever is on VH1. Simply changing the channel back and forth fixes that.
> 
> Ok..so if I have to change this receiver out, I have a lot recorded on it so is there anyway to dump it to an external drive or something?


VH1 is sort of strange.
You're stuck [screwed] over the recordings, so start watching them and move new recordings to be done on other DVRs.
All recordings are locked/coded to the hardware, so other than playing them while recording through the outputs to a DVD recorder, etc., there isn't much that you can do.

This receiver does sound like it's got a squirrel in it. When it records a program, and it ends up being the wrong program/channel, that's fairly hard to do.
If the SWiM/LNB is doing this, it will happen on more than one receiver.
If the receiver is doing this, it's either telling the SWiM to tune to the wrong channel, or VH1 is very close to the channel you wanted to record, and the receiver just mis-tuned.
To do this repeatedly suggests a hard failure, which might show an error in the diagnostic test. You can run this by pressing select, when it reboots and you see "running receiver self test". Press select and there's a guided test you can follow.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> VH1 is sort of strange.
> You're stuck [screwed] over the recordings, so start watching them and move new recordings to be done on other DVRs.
> All recordings are locked/coded to the hardware, so other than playing them while recording through the outputs to a DVD recorder, etc., there isn't much that you can do.
> 
> This receiver does sound like it's got a squirrel in it. When it records a program, and it ends up being the wrong program/channel, that's fairly hard to do.
> If the SWiM/LNB is doing this, it will happen on more than one receiver.
> If the receiver is doing this, it's either telling the SWiM to tune to the wrong channel, or VH1 is very close to the channel you wanted to record, and the receiver just mis-tuned.
> To do this repeatedly suggests a hard failure, which might show an error in the diagnostic test. You can run this by pressing select, when it reboots and you see "running receiver self test". Press select and there's a guided test you can follow.


honestly they need to do whatever it takes to let you move your recordings when this happens.

VH1 wasn't even close in number, and actually strange as well because I was watching the channel prior to turning the receiver off that it would later record on.

So would this receiver messing up (i.e. suddenly needing to "find" SAT 2) have in any way this week (since this is when this new problem started) caused the WH to mess up? I'm thinking that these 2 things happening at the same time?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> honestly they need to do whatever it takes to let you move your recordings when this happens.
> 
> VH1 wasn't even close in number, and actually strange as well because I was watching the channel prior to turning the receiver off that it would later record on.
> 
> So would this receiver messing up (i.e. suddenly needing to "find" SAT 2) have in any way this week (since this is when this new problem started) caused the WH to mess up? I'm thinking that these 2 things happening at the same time?


Channel number and what's next to each other on the SAT have nothing to do with each other.
This receiver may be having hardware problems that can cause almost anything to go awry.
This was sort of why we've been going down the paths we have. Is it the system with a problem or is it this box? Is there any signs of anything else, etc.?
Nomad is about the only other thing I can think of that lets you offload recordings to another device for playback later, but it still isn't a move to and move back to function.


----------



## Shades228

I would have them install a SWM 16, run a dedicated line for the PI and setup the splitters appropriately before I swapped any receivers out. It's entirely possible that the receiver is still having an issue but this is why installs are setup in specific ways is to remove the "what ifs" that can happen in unapproved installations. If you've had a tech out this many times you should be able to deal with case management. Explain to them all of the things that have been done. 

Everything you're describing can happen due to too many tuners on a SWM network and I know you said that the R16 is in single tuner mode but it's just too big of a coincidence to keep over looking.


----------



## veryoldschool

Shades228 said:


> I would have them install a SWM 16, run a dedicated line for the PI and setup the splitters appropriately before I swapped any receivers out. It's entirely possible that the receiver is still having an issue but this is why installs are setup in specific ways is to remove the "what ifs" that can happen in unapproved installations. If you've had a tech out this many times you should be able to deal with case management. Explain to them all of the things that have been done.
> 
> Everything you're describing can happen due to too many tuners on a SWM network and I know you said that the R16 is in single tuner mode but it's just too big of a coincidence to keep over looking.


"BUT" none of this would address the no packets received problem.
If the SWiM were over loaded, there's a error code [776] that displays.


----------



## Shades228

veryoldschool said:


> "BUT" none of this would address the no packets received problem.
> If the SWiM were over loaded, there's a error code that displays.


The no packets problem I think is due to the router and ip addresses. There is an error code that pops up on the dvr but if it's intermittent they may not be using the dvr when that happens.

Again it's not as likely but given all of the smaller items getting everything to spec would remove possibilities that could exist.

I don't disagree with your line of thought on the whole issue but I also don't want to ignore other possibilities that are easily, and should have, been resolved by now.


----------



## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> I would have them install a SWM 16, run a dedicated line for the PI and setup the splitters appropriately before I swapped any receivers out. It's entirely possible that the receiver is still having an issue but this is why installs are setup in specific ways is to remove the "what ifs" that can happen in unapproved installations. If you've had a tech out this many times you should be able to deal with case management. Explain to them all of the things that have been done.
> 
> Everything you're describing can happen due to too many tuners on a SWM network and I know you said that the R16 is in single tuner mode but it's just too big of a coincidence to keep over looking.


I don't have a problem with the 16 being put in, however, it has just been very coincidental and odd that we had WH installed over 2 years ago, things just fine and then all of a sudden they come out to fix one box having an issue and change a lot of things at once and suddenly problems pop up, something done to "fix" one then causes an issue elsewhere.

I don't understand the dedicated line for the PI.

And as for the R16, a Tech a long long time ago set it as 1 tuner for fit in and as I said things fine for 2 years. Also we did verify that it is still set as 1 tuner.

The last thing I really want to do is lose the Kitchen DVR as it has a lot on it and it is the newer of all the DVRs as well.


----------



## veryoldschool

Shades228 said:


> The no packets problem I think is due to the router and ip addresses. There is an error code that pops up on the dvr but if it's intermittent they may not be using the dvr when that happens.
> 
> Again it's not as likely but given all of the smaller items getting everything to spec would remove possibilities that could exist.
> 
> I don't disagree with your line of thought on the whole issue but I also don't want to ignore other possibilities that are easily, and should have, been resolved by now.


Until it's sorted out, everyone is "winging it", but you're suggesting a top to bottom rebuilt for what can be "one bad receiver".
I hate "shotgunning" to try to fix things, but sometimes that's all you've got left.

Since the DVR has recordings that don't want to be lost, setting it aside, installed another DVR and testing it in service to see if everything is fine or not, might be another option.
If there still are problems, then it wasn't the DVR. If they've gone, well it more than likely was.

If a DVR is not recording the right channel, then it has nothing to do with the router.
If it's not having recording problems, but playback issues, but only with the CCK connected, well it's the router.

Following a logical troubleshooting path to isolate the cause(s) should be followed "IMO" before you rip out the whole system, because one tuner isn't active and the customer doesn't care.

"But hey" that's me.


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> then all of a sudden they come out to fix one box having an issue and change a lot of things at once and suddenly problems pop up, something done to "fix" one then causes an issue elsewhere.


"And what was this?"


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> I don't understand the dedicated line for the PI.


It might be a bit hard to understand, "but" the PI adds DC voltage to the coax, but also blocks it from the other side [or the receiver would go up in smoke]. This blocking component can cause the RF signals to get distorted a bit [or sometimes]. If the PI is too close to the SWiM, the SWiM can do weird things. If the PI is too close to the receiver, the DECA can do weird things, one of which is "no packets received".


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Until it's sorted out, everyone is "winging it", but you're suggesting a top to bottom rebuilt for what can be "one bad receiver".
> I hate "shotgunning" to try to fix things, but sometimes that's all you've got left.
> 
> Since the DVR has recordings that don't want to be lost, setting it aside, installed another DVR and testing it in service to see if everything is fine or not, might be another option.
> If there still are problems, then it wasn't the DVR. If they've gone, well it more than likely was.
> 
> If a DVR is not recording the right channel, then it has nothing to do with the router.
> If it's not having recording problems, but playback issues, but only with the CCK connected, well it's the router.
> 
> Following a logical troubleshooting path to isolate the cause(s) should be followed "IMO" before you rip out the whole system, because one tuner isn't active and the customer doesn't care.
> 
> "But hey" that's me.


Basically right now...

The jury is still out on whether the router was causing WH issues. so far so good...

One receiver may be having issues and need to be replaced....

One old SD DVR is set to only 1 tuner because
1. we wanted to continue to have the extra old small non HD TV sitting in the living room for watching an extra game. 
2. I had to pay a lot to have the 2nd DVR 4+ years ago when getting DirecTV so I chose to hang on to it for the area that did not need a HD box of any sort.

So...what benefits would come from Shades228's advice here?


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> "And what was this?"


I guess see my original post about this yesterday for all details, but living Box would get 771a error intermittently and the test run by pressing info button showed error saying disk alignment. Tech came out and did much more and then things started happening.


----------



## Shades228

KarenRichmond said:


> Basically right now...
> 
> The jury is still out on whether the router was causing WH issues. so far so good...
> 
> One receiver may be having issues and need to be replaced....
> 
> One old SD DVR is set to only 1 tuner because
> 1. we wanted to continue to have the extra old small non HD TV sitting in the living room for watching an extra game.
> 2. I had to pay a lot to have the 2nd DVR 4+ years ago when getting DirecTV so I chose to hang on to it for the area that did not need a HD box of any sort.
> 
> So...what benefits would come from Shades228's advice here?


The benefits would be:
Remove potential interference from the PI
Remove doubt as to whether the receivers were fighting over a SWM channel issue
Get your installation up to "code"
Allow you to have it setup so there is less overall "loss" to receivers by removing that 8 way.
Rule out everything else to isolate if it's a bad receiver before swapping it out.
Add second tuner capability to your R16 (I know it's not very important to you)
Also it would be needed in the future for any expansion.



KarenRichmond said:


> I guess see my original post about this yesterday for all details, but living Box would get 771a error intermittently and the test run by pressing info button showed error saying disk alignment. Tech came out and did much more and then things started happening.


Which is another reason I think that they should have done this already. 771a is the receiver not seeing the SWM.


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> I guess see my original post about this yesterday for all details, but living Box would get 771a error intermittently and the test run by pressing info button showed error saying disk alignment. Tech came out and did much more and then things started happening.


I did follow that "back then".
The tech replaced the LNB and most things down to the receiver. Sort of like what Shades228 was suggesting, though not the upgrade to -16.
Before this the kitchen DVR had ZERO problems????


----------



## veryoldschool

Shades228 said:


> The benefits would be:
> Remove potential interference from the PI
> Remove doubt as to whether the receivers were fighting over a SWM channel issue
> Get your installation up to "code"
> Allow you to have it setup so there is less overall "loss" to receivers by removing that 8 way.
> Rule out everything else to isolate if it's a bad receiver before swapping it out.
> Add second tuner capability to your R16 (I know it's not very important to you)
> Also it would be needed in the future for any expansion.
> 
> Which is another reason I think that they should have done this already. 771a is the receiver not seeing the SWM.


DECA loss measurements show "loss" isn't a problem.
The tech went end to end but didn't change to the -16, so the 771a was addresses along with the dish alignment error.
Now you're suggesting to repeat all of this to sort out some issues that may or may not have come from this work.
"so": We screwed it up, but if we come back and do it allover again, we won't screw it up?

I guess we're just looking at it from different points of view.

I think I know the desk you're behind [and you're a "good guy"] and I do know I'm looking at it from fixing things, which is a different viewpoint.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> I did follow that "back then".
> The tech replaced the LNB and most things down to the receiver. Sort of like what Shades228 was suggesting, though not the upgrade to -16.
> Before this the kitchen DVR had ZERO problems????


Yes, other than when WH screwed up throughout the house and actually the first WH problem was the BR falling off the network, not kitchen.


----------



## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> The benefits would be:
> Remove potential interference from the PI
> Remove doubt as to whether the receivers were fighting over a SWM channel issue
> Get your installation up to "code"
> Allow you to have it setup so there is less overall "loss" to receivers by removing that 8 way.
> Rule out everything else to isolate if it's a bad receiver before swapping it out.
> Add second tuner capability to your R16 (I know it's not very important to you)
> Also it would be needed in the future for any expansion.
> 
> Which is another reason I think that they should have done this already. 771a is the receiver not seeing the SWM.


yes, second tuner no issue whatsoever, will not every be used.

Expansion? well maybe only if I get to have that new box  but not happening at that price.

And Living Room fixed after what he did but everything else started.


----------



## Shades228

veryoldschool said:


> DECA loss measurements show "loss" isn't a problem.
> The tech went end to end but didn't change to the -16, so the 771a was addresses along with the dish alignment error.
> Now you're suggesting to repeat all of this to sort out some issues that may or may not have come from this work.
> "so": We screwed it up, but if we come back and do it allover again, we won't screw it up?
> 
> I guess we're just looking at it from different points of view.
> 
> I think I know the desk you're behind [and you're a "good guy"] and I do know I'm looking at it from fixing things, which is a different viewpoint.


I stopped looking at the network issue for now because it's working. The loss was about the regular signal strength just being optimized by removing an 8 way and using lower value splitters.

I'm saying that if it was setup properly to begin with it would be obvious if the receiver needs to be replaced. However since it's not it opens up other options. Since the other options could possibly fix it and not lose recordings then it should be done first.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> DECA loss measurements show "loss" isn't a problem.
> The tech went end to end but didn't change to the -16, so the 771a was addresses along with the dish alignment error.
> Now you're suggesting to repeat all of this to sort out some issues that may or may not have come from this work.
> "so": We screwed it up, but if we come back and do it allover again, we won't screw it up?
> 
> I guess we're just looking at it from different points of view.
> 
> I think I know the desk you're behind [and you're a "good guy"] and I do know I'm looking at it from fixing things, which is a different viewpoint.


This is what I want to know...maybe one of you can answer it

Satellite installed (other than whole home line to router) 4-5 years ago. 
Things fine. Whole Home installed just over 2 years ago. Again fine.

Error occurs with living room box (see first msg), things done, other issues start.

why? why would we suddenly need a 16? Why would the nonused tuner now be an issue?


----------



## Shades228

KarenRichmond said:


> This is what I want to know...maybe one of you can answer it
> 
> Satellite installed (other than whole home line to router) 4-5 years ago.
> Things fine. Whole Home installed just over 2 years ago. Again fine.
> 
> Error occurs with living room box (see first msg), things done, other issues start.
> 
> why? why would we suddenly need a 16? Why would the nonused tuner now be an issue?


You don't need anything unless you replace that DVR and the issue persists. Then the only option left is to do that. Do you have to do it? Nope but there is only an upside to doing it.

In theory everything could work how it's been. In reality it's not and resolving it is the goal. If I were you I'd rather just have it done right and do everything possible before replacing a DVR which makes me lose recordings.

Everything I said to do, which really isn't much, could be for nothing and the DVR is still bad needing to be replaced. The main situation is if you're going through DIRECTV there's not a reason not to have it done.


----------



## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> I stopped looking at the network issue for now because it's working. The loss was about the regular signal strength just being optimized by removing an 8 way and using lower value splitters.
> 
> I'm saying that if it was setup properly to begin with it would be obvious if the receiver needs to be replaced. However since it's not it opens up other options. Since the other options could possibly fix it and not lose recordings then it should be done first.


Well the quick way to prove this is to unplug the "1 tuner DVR" and if the kitchen screws up again obviously that is not the problem.

Of course the network is only fixed because it is no longer in the router.


----------



## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> You don't need anything unless you replace that DVR and the issue persists. Then the only option left is to do that. Do you have to do it? Nope but there is only an upside to doing it.
> 
> In theory everything could work how it's been. In reality it's not and resolving it is the goal. If I were you I'd rather just have it done right and do everything possible before replacing a DVR which makes me lose recordings.
> 
> Everything I said to do, which really isn't much, could be for nothing and the DVR is still bad needing to be replaced. The main situation is if you're going through DIRECTV there's not a reason not to have it done.


Ok so what's the chance that Day 1 he only needed to realign and that when he also did the LNB and connectors and the multiswitch that one of those new updated ones he put in is the real culprit?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> This is what I want to know...maybe one of you can answer it
> 
> Satellite installed (other than whole home line to router) 4-5 years ago.
> Things fine. Whole Home installed just over 2 years ago. Again fine.
> 
> Error occurs with living room box (see first msg), things done, other issues start.
> 
> why? why would we suddenly need a 16? Why would the nonused tuner now be an issue?


"Why" is what I'm trying to narrow down Karen.
I've been doing things like this since before many were in diapers here.
I've been fairly good at figuring out where someone screwed up and been able to follow the changes/paths that explain/cause these problems.
The LR DVR had 771a & alignment errors first right?
The LNB swap and dish alignment addressed this.
The tech [doing a good job] went further and changed the splitter and maybe some connectors there.
HERE is where the DECA/WH signals were passing through, so after this work, you seem to have problems.
Not sure if anyone has got back to the splitter and checked/verified the work there.
Now the MR DVR had a DECA swapped, but this might really go back to the splitter and a problem there. [chasing one's tail]
Now it got worse as the kitchen DVR has problems. Still SAT issues, or are they in the past?
DECA is working or not without the router connection?

I'd hoped the DECA test would have shown a problem that would point back to the splitter, but it didn't, but that still doesn't mean it's OK, just that it doesn't show up as one in the test.

The PI and extra splitter also cause problems, that it shouldn't have, so that too might point back to the splitter.

"If I was there", I would have been in the attic long ago checking things out at the splitter.


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Ok so what's the chance that Day 1 he only needed to realign and that when he also did the LNB and connectors and the *multiswitch* that one of those new updated ones he put in is the real culprit?


that's a splitter as the SWiM system with it in the LNB doesn't have any multiswitches.

I've already said what should be checked at the splitter too.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> "Why" is what I'm trying to narrow down Karen.
> I've been doing things like this since before many were in diapers here.
> I've been fairly good at figuring out where someone screwed up and been able to follow the changes/paths that explain/cause these problems.
> The LR DVR had 771a & alignment errors first right?
> The LNB swap and dish alignment addressed this.
> The tech [doing a good job] went further and changed the splitter and maybe some connectors there.
> HERE is where the DECA/WH signals were passing through, so after this work, you seem to have problems.
> Not sure if anyone has got back to the splitter and checked/verified the work there.
> Now the MR DVR had a DECA swapped, but this might really go back to the splitter and a problem there. [chasing one's tail]
> Now it got worse as the kitchen DVR has problems. Still SAT issues, or are they in the past?
> DECA is working or not without the router connection?
> 
> I'd hoped the DECA test would have shown a problem that would point back to the splitter, but it didn't, but that still doesn't mean it's OK, just that it doesn't show up as one in the test.
> 
> The PI and extra splitter also cause problems, that it shouldn't have, so that too might point back to the splitter.
> 
> "If I was there", I would have been in the attic long ago checking things out at the splitter.


Ok..lets see..

Kitchen had had no signal issues.
WH working without router in picture so far--24 hour mark now (worked before first Tech came out with router)
BR got new Deca because I refused to jump to it being the box immediately. It has no signal issues now or before.

Tech yesterday did check that connections in attic were tight but everyone refuses to believe that something put in "new" can possibly be "bad"


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Ok..lets see..
> 
> Kitchen had had no signal issues.
> WH working without router in picture so far--24 hour mark now (worked before first Tech came out with router)
> BR got new Deca because I refused to jump to it being the box immediately. It has no signal issues now or before.
> 
> Tech yesterday did check that connections in attic were tight but everyone refuses to believe that something put in "new" can possibly be "bad"


While a splitter might be defective, it's rare.
Much more likely are the connectors/cables to it.
Tight still doesn't mean a good connection.
"S.O.P." is to do a visual inspection of the mating area before connecting. A speck of dirt or other "crud" can cause all sorts of problems. "RF" is funny this way.

The BR receiver never was the problem, and the DECA may not have been either.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> that's a splitter as the SWiM system with it in the LNB doesn't have any multiswitches.
> 
> I've already said what should be checked at the splitter too.


I have the one he took out 2 weeks ago that says MSPLIT8R0-01 and I had thought he referred to it as multisplitter, but whatever as long as you know what I'm talking about!


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> I have the one he took out 2 weeks ago that says MSPLIT8R0-01 and I had thought he referred to it as multisplitter, but whatever as long as you know what I'm talking about!


I do and know them very well. They aren't anything but some traces on a board, with some resistors, caps, and a few inductors. "If they're soldiered" they work. There is nothing in there that can be "intermittent".
The signals passing though it is what's "in common" to just about everything you've had problems with since the tech worked on it.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> I do and know them very well. They aren't anything but some traces on a board, with some resistors, caps, and a few inductors. "If they're soldiered" they work. There is nothing in there that can be "intermittent".
> The signals passing though it is what's "in common" to just about everything you've had problems with since the tech worked on it.


sooooo...perhaps they should switch it ???


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> sooooo...perhaps they should switch it ???


They should at least look at it and swap it if they can't see any other issue up there.
Not sure how "handy" you are, but if you have the old one, "I might" go up and inspect the connectors, and swap in the old splitter in "just for grins".
The Whole Home/DECA signals, can be so sensitive that I can make big changes to them with a 4" change in coax length, "but" I really hope you issues aren't needing this level of tweaking.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> They should at least look at it and swap it if they can't see any other issue up there.
> Not sure how "handy" you are, but if you have the old one, "I might" go up and inspect the connectors, and swap in the old splitter in "just for grins".
> The Whole Home/DECA signals, can be so sensitive that I can make big changes to them with a 4" change in coax length, "but" I really hope you issues aren't needing this level of tweaking.


Oh I am thinking about it....


----------



## KarenRichmond

No I have not tried putting back the old splitter mostly because I am worried about screwing up anything more, but late last night the WH screwed up again (watching in BR a show on Living room DVR). Also at some point the kitchen receiver had its SAT 2 issue again and screwed up a test recording. 

Should I insist on the splitter being replaced?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> No I have not tried putting back the old splitter mostly because I am worried about screwing up anything more, but late last night the WH screwed up again (watching in BR a show on Living room DVR). Also at some point the kitchen receiver had its SAT 2 issue again and screwed up a test recording.
> 
> Should I insist on the splitter being replaced?


Right now, as a customer, the only thing you should "insist" is that it should be working correctly.

"From the tech's point of view": 
Customer says do this because some bozo on the internet says it might be the problem. 
It's not going to be received too well, and frankly it wouldn't be by me either.

A way to get around this is to do some testing and get some results that suggest/point to where the problem might be.

Current status:
The CCK is out of the loop, so the router has nothing to do with the problems.
WH is flaky and one receiver is having problems with tuner #2.

A step to try is to swap the kitchen and bedroom receivers.
See what happens.
Does the tuner #2 problem stay in the kitchen, or does it move to the bedroom with the receiver? Or does it not happen?

If it stays in the kitchen, then the cabling and splitter are where the problem is.
If it moves with the receiver, as much as you don't like it, it looks to be the receiver causing it. If this is the case, "maybe" it's causing the WH issues, and pulling the power cord on it might show the other receivers are working fine.

Hard failures, by their nature, are easier to fix than problems that take a day or two to happen.
The more you can do to isolate the problem(s), the easier it will be to fix.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Right now, as a customer, the only thing you should "insist" is that it should be working correctly.
> 
> "From the tech's point of view":
> Customer says do this because some bozo on the internet says it might be the problem.
> It's not going to be received too well, and frankly it wouldn't be by me either.
> 
> A way to get around this is to do some testing and get some results that suggest/point to where the problem might be.
> 
> Current status:
> The CCK is out of the loop, so the router has nothing to do with the problems.
> WH is flaky and one receiver is having problems with tuner #2.
> 
> A step to try is to swap the kitchen and bedroom receivers.
> See what happens.
> Does the tuner #2 problem stay in the kitchen, or does it move to the bedroom with the receiver? Or does it not happen?
> 
> If it stays in the kitchen, then the cabling and splitter are where the problem is.
> If it moves with the receiver, as much as you don't like it, it looks to be the receiver causing it. If this is the case, "maybe" it's causing the WH issues, and pulling the power cord on it might show the other receivers are working fine.
> 
> Hard failures, by their nature, are easier to fix than problems that take a day or two to happen.
> The more you can do to isolate the problem(s), the easier it will be to fix.


As far as telling him what I want him to do, basically without even mentioning this forum I had been leaning towards it being the splitter or the LNB, the 2 things they changed out the first Monday that I questioned being necessary. so me saying hey change the splitter is my idea (confirmed as a possibility on here?).

I don't know about moving the boxes... I don't think I should have to and they should go back to what they did at the beginning to start causing this mess.

BTW after thinking of just how I use the 1-tuner SD DVR, I am thinking of taking it out. I can watch my second NFL game on my laptop this year since it is part of the Max package this year.


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> As far as telling him what I want him to do, basically without even mentioning this forum I had been leaning towards it being the splitter or the LNB, the 2 things they changed out the first Monday that I questioned being necessary. so me saying hey change the splitter is my idea (confirmed as a possibility on here?).
> 
> I don't know about moving the boxes... I don't think I should have to and they should go back to what they did at the beginning to start causing this mess.
> 
> BTW after thinking of just how I use the 1-tuner SD DVR, I am thinking of taking it out. I can watch my second NFL game on my laptop this year since it is part of the Max package this year.


It's clear we're not looking at this from the same point of view.
"I see" your point, and it would make sense if there hadn't been anything wrong before the tech did his work. "It worked before" and now it doesn't, therefore what he did was the problem.
The living room receiver had an error for 771a & dish alignment, right?
These point to a problem at the dish and the LNB.
"Could this new LNB be the cause of the problem with tuner #2?" 
It's possible. The SWM test screen doesn't show anything wrong, but that still doesn't rule out a problem with the LNB.
The WH problems started showing up after he changed the LNB and the splitter. The LNB has nothing to do with WH, so you have to rule that out.
The splitter is where all the receivers connect to each other for WH, so it can't be ruled out.

Not taking steps to narrow down where the problem(s) come from, means there is little that can be done through this forum. :shrug:


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> It's clear we're not looking at this from the same point of view.
> "I see" your point, and it would make sense if there hadn't been anything wrong before the tech did his work. "It worked before" and now it doesn't, therefore what he did was the problem.
> The living room receiver had an error for 771a & dish alignment, right?
> These point to a problem at the dish and the LNB.
> "Could this new LNB be the cause of the problem with tuner #2?"
> It's possible. The SWM test screen doesn't show anything wrong, but that still doesn't rule out a problem with the LNB.
> The WH problems started showing up after he changed the LNB and the splitter. The LNB has nothing to do with WH, so you have to rule that out.
> The splitter is where all the receivers connect to each other for WH, so it can't be ruled out.
> 
> Not taking steps to narrow down where the problem(s) come from, means there is little that can be done through this forum. :shrug:


'

I disagree, we're looking at it the same. I have gone through quite a bit to test this when in reality the people I pay this service for should be doing more on their end. I have even turned to asking others (this forum) for help when, in fact, the technicians should have done so.

And I likely will end up switching the boxes to try to prove something yet again.


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> '
> I disagree, we're looking at it the same. I have gone through quite a bit to test this when in reality the people I pay this service for should be doing more on their end. I have even turned to asking others (this forum) for help when, in fact, the technicians should have done so.
> 
> And I likely will end up switching the boxes to try to prove something yet again.


We do agree that you shouldn't be needing to do this and that DirecTV should be.
I came to this forum, like others, because I had problems and was looking for help.
Along the way, I've learned/shared a lot of knowledge and try to pass it on.
When I have someone out on a service call, I ask what they did and try to find out why they did it. It's just my nature to want to know.
If the problem isn't fixed, I either fix it myself, or get them back out and start taking charge of what's being done, so it gets fixed.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> We do agree that you shouldn't be needing to do this and that DirecTV should be.
> I came to this forum, like others, because I had problems and was looking for help.
> Along the way, I've learned/shared a lot of knowledge and try to pass it on.
> When I have someone out on a service call, I ask what they did and try to find out why they did it. It's just my nature to want to know.
> If the problem isn't fixed, I either fix it myself, or get them back out and start taking charge of what's being done, so it gets fixed.


Question before typing in these numbers for you

Why when the SD box is off do we not see a 0 pop up somewhere?

Here's the numbers with the boxes switched from Kitchen and MR BR

MR BR (former kitchen)

tuner 1
97 100 98 98 96 97 99 98
100 N/A

tuner 2
100 100 100 100 98 100 100 100
100 N/A

Kitchen (former MR BR)

same on both tuners

100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 n/a

Living Room

same on both tuners

100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 n/a

Son

100 100 100 100 98 100 100 100
100 n/a

living extra (SD)

100 100 100 98 98 100 100 99
99 n/a


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Question before typing in these numbers for you
> 
> Why when the SD box is off do we not see a 0 pop up somewhere?


Because it works the other way.
Why you needed to have every receiver on the same screen was to "get rid of" the zeros.
You can see which channel(s) get used by which receiver, when you're back where these numbers came, and then you go to another receiver and have it exit the menu. When you come back to the first receiver, still on the screen, you'll see one or two zeros show. These are the channels being used by the one that exited the setup menu. Move to another receiver and have it exit the menu, and go back to the first still on the screen. You'll now see another one or two zeros and these are the channels the receiver that just exited the menu are using.

"Zero" comes from the receiver trying to read the channel, not being able to because the SWiM has assigned it to another receiver.

BTW the numbers are good, so you'll just have to wait and see if tuner #2 has a problem or not.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Because it works the other way.
> Why you needed to have every receiver on the same screen was to "get rid of" the zeros.
> You can see which channel(s) get used by which receiver, when you're back where these numbers came, and then you go to another receiver and have it exit the menu. When you come back to the first receiver, still on the screen, you'll see one or two zeros show. These are the channels being used by the one that exited the setup menu. Move to another receiver and have it exit the menu, and go back to the first still on the screen. You'll now see another one or two zeros and these are the channels the receiver that just exited the menu are using.
> 
> "Zero" comes from the receiver trying to read the channel, not being able to because the SWiM has assigned it to another receiver.
> 
> BTW the numbers are good, so you'll just have to wait and see if tuner #2 has a problem or not.


The numbers are the same as yesterday when you said there was a problem so I am lost now


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> The numbers are the same as yesterday when you said there was a problem so I am lost now





> What this is showing is the receiver and the SWiM aren't showing any problems with the feed.


Yes, they're the same and still don't show a problem.

Since you're now left with waiting and seeing what's going to happen, I'd start everything out with a full system rebooting.
The CCK isn't the problem, so it's time it can be connected again.

To do a full system reboot:
Pull the power cords on all the receivers, the CCK, and the SWiM PI.

After a couple of mins:


power up the PI
next power up the CCK
give a mins or two and go to the "problem child" receiver and power it up.
After it's come up completely, move on to the next receiver and do the same.
Power up the single tuner R16 last.
With a "fresh start" track all problems as they happen.


----------



## KarenRichmond

Again, without reading everything again, I thought doing that and posting the numbers had resulted in saying the receiver (former kitchen) was a problem. So now I feel like I have lost 2 DVRs--don't trust former kitchen, now worried about former BR in kitchen because it is in the kitchen. Why are the numbers lower on that box no matter what room it is in?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Again, without reading everything again, I thought doing that and posting the numbers had resulted in saying the receiver (former kitchen) was a problem. So now I feel like I have lost 2 DVRs--don't trust former kitchen, now worried about former BR in kitchen because it is in the kitchen. Why are the numbers lower on that box no matter what room it is in?


The 4 points fall within normal variations of the hardware. It's just the nature of what is used.
If the variation was 10, then it would be excessive.

The reference to the kitchen receiver being the problem, was because there were no indications that the signal to it showed any signs of a problem.
If it has a problem with #2 tuner and recordings, now that it's been moved, it points to the receiver as the cause and away from any of the wiring to the kitchen. 
Should the "new" kitchen receiver have the problem, "then" both DVRs can't have the same problem and it points to the wiring to the kitchen as the problem.



> So now I feel like I have lost 2 DVRs-


 You shouldn't. You're testing to see which "one" will show a problem.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> The 4 points fall within normal variations of the hardware. It's just the nature of what is used.
> If the variation was 10, then it would be excessive.
> 
> The reference to the kitchen receiver being the problem, was because there were no indications that the signal to it showed any signs of a problem.
> If it has a problem with #2 tuner and recordings, now that it's been moved, it points to the receiver as the cause and away from any of the wiring to the kitchen.
> Should the "new" kitchen receiver have the problem, "then" both DVRs can't have the same problem and it points to the wiring to the kitchen as the problem.
> 
> You shouldn't. You're testing to see which "one" will show a problem.


I meant that I have lost them because I now can't be sure either will record correctly.


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> I meant that I have lost them because I now can't be sure either will record correctly.


Yes, that's the only way to find out. Both won't fail, but one might, which is the point of the test, and you had one failing before, which is why you're doing the test.


----------



## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> Yes, that's the only way to find out. Both won't fail, but one might, which is the point of the test, and you had one failing before, which is why you're doing the test.


Well after leaving the BR DVR just on (former Kitchen) I went in to check and found it froze, looking for SAT2, but interestingly we were watching something recorded on it in another room.....so I would take from this that the receiver issue does not cause problem with WH.

Have it on still and will see what it does over the next 12 hours.


----------



## wallfishman

KarenRichmond said:


> Well after leaving the BR DVR just on (former Kitchen) I went in to check and found it froze, looking for SAT2, but interestingly we were watching something recorded on it in another room.....so I would take from this that the receiver issue does not cause problem with WH.
> 
> Have it on still and will see what it does over the next 12 hours.


reading thru all this these things i would try as a tech in this order.

replace splitter. visually inspect each fittings at splitter, look for sucked out fittings and look for braid touching the stinger fittings.

I would look at the kitchen line. If its a wallplate take that apart put in new barrel and change fittings. trace that line make sure theres no other junk connectors or barrels in line.

I would look at moving power inserter to its own line. not behind an hddvr. this isnt the problem its just what i try to do with mrv


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Well after leaving the* BR DVR just on (former Kitchen*) I went in to check and found it froze, looking for SAT2, but interestingly we were watching something recorded on it in another room.....so I would take from this that the receiver issue does not cause problem with WH.
> 
> Have it on still and will see what it does over the next 12 hours.





wallfishman said:


> reading thru all this these things i would try as a tech in this order.
> 
> replace splitter. visually inspect each fittings at splitter, look for sucked out fittings and look for braid touching the stinger fittings.
> 
> I would look at the kitchen line. If its a wallplate take that apart put in new barrel and change fittings. trace that line make sure theres no other junk connectors or barrels in line.
> 
> I would look at moving power inserter to its own line. not behind an hddvr.


Would seem the problem receiver was moved to another location and repeated having the same problem, so it doesn't look like a wiring problem to the kitchen, right now, but the receiver that was moved.


----------



## wallfishman

i misread that, i thought the problem stayed with the kitchen.....

well that changes everything !!!


----------



## veryoldschool

wallfishman said:


> i misread that, i thought the problem stayed with the kitchen.....
> 
> well that changes everything !!!


But your ideas of things to do about the wiring, were right on, should that run turn out to be a problem.


----------



## KarenRichmond

So why were we able to continue to watch the show recorded on the receiver searching for SAT 2 in another room?


----------



## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> So why were we able to continue to watch the show recorded on the receiver searching for SAT 2 in another room?


The receiver's hard drive was feeding the recording over the network, so the receiver hadn't locked up completely.


----------



## KarenRichmond

As an update.... texted Tech on Sunday and Monday about issues. Yesterday around 5 pm he texted me he would be out this afternoon...as of 3 pm no show yet. Had a WH issue again yesterday, nothing with the SAT2 since Sunday. I had told him I wanted the splitter replaced. He wants to test electrical outlets. If he ever shows we'll see what happens


----------



## Shades228

Why aren't you going through DIRECTV to get this scheduled? Is this a private tech you're paying?


----------



## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> Why aren't you going through DIRECTV to get this scheduled? Is this a private tech you're paying?


This is through DirecTV (or should I say who DirecTV contracts out to do their work). Last Monday when the Tech and his supervisor came out (since 3 different ones had already been out the week before) the supervisor gave me his cell number so I could get him back out if that didn't fix it, which it didn't. Friday he said to text him over the weekend so he could come out Monday if needed. I did and then he didn't say a word back to me until around 5 Monday when he said it would have to be Tuesday (yesterday), then at noon yesterday he said he would be here about 2. At 4 I texted and he replied he would be out. At 5:45 I had to tell him I had to leave for my granddaughter's gymnastics.


----------



## dielray

I've read through the topic, but there is a lot to go through so sorry if I missed something.

Karen:
I saw that you posted Phy Levels earlier, but did not see the Phy Rate Mesh posted. Could you post a picture of it? To get to it press Right + Guide on one of the 24s. Go to coax, and then Phy Rate Mesh. It will be an array of 3 digit numbers.

The signal problem moved with the kitchen receiver to the new room, correct?

This could point to a problem with the receiver, or to a problem between the Dish and splitter. Basically the dish breaks the cable down to 8 parts(channels) and gives each receiver a part for each tuner it has active. It has been my experience that unplugging a receiver with the SWM PI plugged in has maintained the channel assignment. 

To figure out if it is the receiver or not we need to do the following:
1) Enable double play on the problem receiver. Make sure each tuner is on an HD channel.
2) Bring every other receiver to the signal meter screen looking at SWM.
3) Note where the 2 zeros are. Those are the channels assigned to the problem receiver.
4) Unplug each receiver, as well as the SWM PI. Leave unplugged for a minute.
5) Plug the PI in.
6) Here we are going to manually assign the SWM channels. We want to make sure the problem receiver is set to a different assignment. The SWM assigns channels from lowest to highest, starting at channel 2. DVRs may not grab their 2nd tuner until needed. If 2 and 3 were not 0s plug the problem receiver in first and wait for it to completely boot up. Enable double play. If 2 or 3 were 0s and 4 & 5 were not, plug a different receiver in first, wait for it to boot up completely and enable double play. Then do the same for the problem receiver. 
7) Plug in the rest of the receivers.

If the problem stays with the receiver, it is likely the receiver. If it moves to a different receiver, it is likely anything from the ODU to the Splitter.


----------



## KarenRichmond

I haven't tried your 7 steps yet, but here is the Phy Rate Mesh

NDS 0 1 2 3
0 238 245 248 241
1 246 231 247 232
2 246 252 235 234
3 253 249 245 243

and yes when we moved the kitchen receiver to the bedroom we saw the issue again, but the bedroom had not had that issue so it seemed receiver related. We have, however, seen the whole home problem since moving the receivers around.


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## dielray

KarenRichmond said:


> I haven't tried your 7 steps yet, but here is the Phy Rate Mesh
> 
> NDS 0 1 2 3
> 0 238 245 248 241
> 1 246 231 247 232
> 2 246 252 235 234
> 3 253 249 245 243
> 
> and yes when we moved the kitchen receiver to the bedroom we saw the issue again, but the bedroom had not had that issue so it seemed receiver related. We have, however, seen the whole home problem since moving the receivers around.


Unfortunately those numbers do not point to a problem. You may reconnect your CCK if you like.

I'm sorry you have been experiencing these problems. Intermittent problems are not easy to diagnose. Many times all tests will pass and leave the tech grasping at straws.

Just to rule out a few things, does your SD DVR have a red device attached directly to its sat in?

Have you introduced any kind of electronics to the home around the time the problems started? It's extremely rare, but there have been cases of something as simple as a clock too close to the coax causing issues. Is there anything that turns on around the time the MRV stops working?


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## KarenRichmond

dielray said:


> Unfortunately those numbers do not point to a problem. You may reconnect your CCK if you like.
> 
> I'm sorry you have been experiencing these problems. Intermittent problems are not easy to diagnose. Many times all tests will pass and leave the tech grasping at straws.
> 
> Just to rule out a few things, does your SD DVR have a red device attached directly to its sat in?
> 
> Have you introduced any kind of electronics to the home around the time the problems started? It's extremely rare, but there have been cases of something as simple as a clock too close to the coax causing issues. Is there anything that turns on around the time the MRV stops working?


What changed was the Tech changing out the splitter and LBN when he came out to realign the dish.

Usually when we see it happen is at night, but I have seen it early morning.


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## dielray

KarenRichmond said:


> What changed was the Tech changing out the splitter and LBN when he came out to realign the dish.
> 
> Usually when we see it happen is at night, but I have seen it early morning.


You also had a 771A before that which is not caused by an alignment issue. It's possible the original problem was never fixed and the symptoms just got worse. Honestly, with an intermittent issue everything is suspect. Next tech out might just replace everything, which if the rest of the system looks healthy may be his only option to ensure a fix.


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## Shades228

KarenRichmond said:


> This is through DirecTV (or should I say who DirecTV contracts out to do their work). Last Monday when the Tech and his supervisor came out (since 3 different ones had already been out the week before) the supervisor gave me his cell number so I could get him back out if that didn't fix it, which it didn't. Friday he said to text him over the weekend so he could come out Monday if needed. I did and then he didn't say a word back to me until around 5 Monday when he said it would have to be Tuesday (yesterday), then at noon yesterday he said he would be here about 2. At 4 I texted and he replied he would be out. At 5:45 I had to tell him I had to leave for my granddaughter's gymnastics.


I would be contacting DIRECTV each time you need a tech to come out. The way you're doing it the situation is not being tracked and if say that a tech has been out X times there's nothing to validate it. Also at this point it should be in the hands of case management who will get it resolved but because of not going through them it's taking longer than it should.


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## KarenRichmond

dielray said:


> You also had a 771A before that which is not caused by an alignment issue. It's possible the original problem was never fixed and the symptoms just got worse. Honestly, with an intermittent issue everything is suspect. Next tech out might just replace everything, which if the rest of the system looks healthy may be his only option to ensure a fix.


the only box that got the 771a error has never had a problem since (that was the living room box)


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## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> I would be contacting DIRECTV each time you need a tech to come out. The way you're doing it the situation is not being tracked and if say that a tech has been out X times there's nothing to validate it. Also at this point it should be in the hands of case management who will get it resolved but because of not going through them it's taking longer than it should.


I got no where the first week with 3 different Techs when I contacted DirecTV each time. When a supervisor came out with Tech 4 he said I was suppose to only contact him.


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## Shades228

KarenRichmond said:


> I got no where the first week with 3 different Techs when I contacted DirecTV each time. When a supervisor came out with Tech 4 he said I was suppose to only contact him.


The supervisor told you that because he knew it would go to case management and if they didn't get it fixed and you called again it would impact their numbers. I can guarantee that if this was in case management it would have been resolved by now one way or the other.


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## KarenRichmond

Shades228 said:


> The supervisor told you that because he knew it would go to case management and if they didn't get it fixed and you called again it would impact their numbers. I can guarantee that if this was in case management it would have been resolved by now one way or the other.


That's what they did the first week basically. I would call DirecTV back, they would pass me to tech support, they would have me do a couple of things (same things again) and then tell me someone would come out. 3 different people didn't fix anything.


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## KarenRichmond

So far (fingers crossed) I think we may have the whole home issue not happening anymore with really nothing new done.

We put the kitchen and bedroom boxes back where they were last night.

This morning kitchen was "mixed up" again and on VH1 even though that was not the channel it should have been on.

When the kitchen was in bedroom it got "mixed up" once not too many hours after turning it back on from moving. The bedroom never had any issues.

So does this mean the kitchen box has an issue or ??? Hard to believe it is any wiring if it does not cause another box to have an issue in the same room.


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## KarenRichmond

At least 1+ hours on phone with DirecTV and got it elevated to case management (but of course had to go through customer service and tech support). Nice lady with case management. She asked questions and went over it all and said "their highest level of technician would come out" Saturday was earliest (got granddaughter's b'day party) so it is set for Sunday afternoon. We shall see....


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## KarenRichmond

Update...Tech just left after being here 3+ hours. He changed connectors to ones with a red band on them throughout house. He plugged his meter in all over checking whatever. Of course unless he is here when he drops he cannot see it, however, the problem receiver was on the wrong channel for him to see. He put the cable back in and back on the internet connection as well. He replaced the problem receiver since I had decided I was just tired of not being able to use it with not knowing when it would change and not record right (lost some stuff but I'll live or find it on again).

So we'll see. 

But he said he had been doing this a year, seemed like he had had asked lots of questions along the way about things as he talked so maybe was very "up to date" but I found it interesting since they were supposedly sending "a high level tech out" since we had had such problems and it was escalated to case management.

He was very pleasant, listened to all I said and commented how much I knew and didn't just brush off anything I asked about or that I mentioned from this forum so if nothing else that alone was nice.


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## dielray

KarenRichmond said:


> Update...Tech just left after being here 3+ hours. He changed connectors to ones with a red band on them throughout house. He plugged his meter in all over checking whatever. Of course unless he is here when he drops he cannot see it, however, the problem receiver was on the wrong channel for him to see. He put the cable back in and back on the internet connection as well. He replaced the problem receiver since I had decided I was just tired of not being able to use it with not knowing when it would change and not record right (lost some stuff but I'll live or find it on again).
> 
> So we'll see.


I'm glad he took a good look at your system. Did he mention anything definitively wrong? If not, don't worry, sometimes an intermittent problem cannot be tracked down with the tests we have at our disposal.



KarenRichmond said:


> But he said he had been doing this a year, seemed like he had had asked lots of questions along the way about things as he talked so maybe was very "up to date" but I found it interesting since they were supposedly sending "a high level tech out" since we had had such problems and it was escalated to case management.


There are not "High level techs" in most offices. Case management just means the tech is flagged to be able to roll to those types, has low service-on-service numbers, and has passed the necessary class. With how often I see notes requesting "High Level Techs" it would seem CSRs truly believe there are some.



KarenRichmond said:


> He was very pleasant, listened to all I said and commented how much I knew and didn't just brush off anything I asked about or that I mentioned from this forum so if nothing else that alone was nice.


Glad to hear it. Thank you for taking the time to learn the system. It is much easier for the tech to track down the problem when the symptoms can accurately and thoroughly be explained.


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## KarenRichmond

Well last night the WH started messing up again. We also noticed when watching things recorded last night that the quality was bad, pauses, some pixels, that sort of thing. No bad weather any where around so now I don't know anymore.

Going to call yet again this morning.


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## KarenRichmond

After several back and forth phone calls with case management, someone came out today. I was insisting on a splitter switchout and they decided it was best to go ahead with the 16. Also this tech told me that he had seen a 16 system have similar issues that was using 15 tuners, like it didn't like being that close to be maxed.

We're setup so now we watch and test and wait!


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> After several back and forth phone calls with case management, someone came out today. I was insisting on a splitter switchout and they decided it was best to go ahead with the 16. *Also this tech told me that he had seen a 16 system have similar issues that was using 15 tuners, like it didn't like being that close to be maxed.*
> 
> We're setup so now we watch and test and wait!


This might have something to do with a receiver tuning to a strange channel, but since the SWiM has nothing to do with the Whole Home, it doesn't make much sense for those issues, if you still have them.

At this point I think what you can count on is that everything has been replaced, but for the DECAs & receivers.
The LNB needed to be changed again for the SWiM-16, the cables have been inspected and attended to, and the splitters have been dealt with too.


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## KarenRichmond

veryoldschool said:


> This might have something to do with a receiver tuning to a strange channel, but since the SWiM has nothing to do with the Whole Home, it doesn't make much sense for those issues, if you still have them.
> 
> At this point I think what you can count on is that everything has been replaced, but for the DECAs & receivers.
> The LNB needed to be changed again for the SWiM-16, the cables have been inspected and attended to, and the splitters have been dealt with too.


Yep still had whole home last night and again this morning so now we just watch and wait to see if it happens again.

Two boxes have been replaced -- the non DVR and the HR24 which was doing the channel switch.

Yes, no LNB and now there are 4 cables coming out of the dish.


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## veryoldschool

KarenRichmond said:


> Yep still had whole home last night and again this morning so now we just watch and wait to see if it happens again.
> 
> Two boxes have been replaced -- the non DVR and the HR24 which was doing the channel switch.
> 
> Yes, "new" LNB and now there are 4 cables coming out of the dish.


They're doing everything they can for you, and about the only things left are the receivers that haven't been replaced.


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