# HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer



## Earl Bonovich

Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm

Major points:
1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels. Confirmed by DirecTV.
2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)

My comments about #3:
-) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
-) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


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## litzdog911

I would think that any new HR20 would include a 5-LNB dish for free.


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## Thaedron

litzdog911 said:


> I would think that any new HR20 would include a 5-LNB dish for free.


This is essentially the deal that I got when I added the HR20 and yes, the dish was included in the $99 fee.


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## Thaedron

> "New high-def will be available only on MPEG 4-compatible boxes (H20, HR20, HR21) and the Ka/ku band dishes," DIRECTV spokesman Robert Mercer told TVPredictions.com today.


That's the first time I've seen HR21 actually quoted or otherwise mentioned by D*. Or is it possible that it's a mis-quoted H21?


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## fredandbetty

Earl Bonovich said:


> Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm
> 
> Major points:
> 1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels. Confirmed by DirecTV.
> 2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
> 3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)
> 
> My comments about #3:
> -) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
> -) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


Well, I have been reading for the past two days everything that i could before i call them so as to know what to expect.... but when we got our HR20 in Feb, we were told that we would eventually have to replace our Hughes SD Tivo so i guess the time is here, i will probably call today to see what i can get... Hmmm maybe my D-11's can get a deal also... ( NOT holding My Breath, but we'll see)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Earl Bonovich

fredandbetty said:


> Well, I have been reading for the past two days everything that i could before i call them so as to know what to expect.... but when we got our HR20 in Feb, we were told that we would eventually have to replace our Hughes SD Tivo so i guess the time is here, i will probably call today to see what i can get... Hmmm maybe my D-11's can get a deal also... ( NOT holding My Breath, but we'll see)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You only need to replace your SD TiVo... if you want HD...
There is no other reason to replace, unless you want to.


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## fredandbetty

Earl Bonovich said:


> You only need to replace your SD TiVo... if you want HD...
> There is no other reason to replace, unless you want to.


OOPS!! sorry, i forgot the part that i am looking to get an additional HD set for one of the other boxes, thanks Earl, for catching my mistake!:blush:


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## anubys

Earl Bonovich said:


> 3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)


well, this is VERY disappointing...DirecTV said that migrating us to mpeg4 would be at little or no cost...I don't consider $99 to be little or no cost...


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## bidger

anubys said:


> well, this is VERY disappointing...DirecTV said that migrating us to mpeg4 would be at little or no cost...I don't consider $99 to be little or no cost...


Call and let them know. Be polite and tell them how you feel about it and see what happens. If you're a premium-type customer, pay your bill on time and if full and sub to Sports and/or Premium packages, you might get a better offer.


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## anubys

bidger said:


> Call and let them know. Be polite and tell them how you feel about it and see what happens. If you're a premium-type customer, pay your bill on time and if full and sub to Sports and/or Premium packages, you might get a better offer.


sure...I agree...I got my first HR20 for nothing (and got the Super Fan for free to boot)...but I hate having to beg for something that I don't have to...and DirecTV said I won't have to beg...

it's crap...we paid top dollar for the HR10-250 and they promised us a swap...$99 is not a swap...


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## bidger

anubys said:


> sure...I agree...*I got my first HR20 for nothing (and got the Super Fan for free to boot)*...but I hate having to beg for something that I don't have to...and DirecTV said I won't have to beg...
> 
> it's crap...we paid top dollar for the HR10-250 and they promised us a swap...$99 is not a swap...


OK, I wasn't aware of the part I bolded. I got one free last year along with SF. I honestly don't expect another one free and if I were to add another one, I could live with the $99 charge and being able to keep the HR10.


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## Stuart Sweet

anubys said:


> sure...I agree...I got my first HR20 for nothing (and got the Super Fan for free to boot)...but I hate having to beg for something that I don't have to...and DirecTV said I won't have to beg...
> 
> it's crap...we paid top dollar for the HR10-250 and they promised us a swap...$99 is not a swap...


It sounds like they already gave you one free HR20 - I'd say they made good on their offer. Still, why not call and try to get another one?


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## anubys

lamontcranston said:


> It sounds like they already gave you one free HR20 - I'd say they made good on their offer. Still, why not call and try to get another one?


I'm not saying I won't, I'm saying I shouldn't have to...

I have 3 HDTVs with 3 HD-Tivos...I paid for all three...DirecTV said that they would replace them at little or no cost when they switch to mpeg4 since those units cannot decode mpeg4...

I expected them to live up to that promise for all my HD-Tivos, not just the first one...and I also expected them to do it upfront, not to expect me to call multiple times and beg for hours until I get lucky with the right CSR...


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## Lee L

I have 2 and I will not pay more than $99 total for a new dish and 2 HR20's. I will whine up a storm if they do not give me that stuff for $19.99 but will pay $99. Considering the monthly bill we pay (we have the TC premier or whatever they call it now and 4 active receivers, plus we get the College Football package and March madness) They hopefully will step up.

I wonder if I waited just a little too long though if they are putting some official policy in place.


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## wipeout

I think that Directv should be swapping out all HR10's that we have with HR20's at no cost period. It isn't the customer's fault they have chosen to go with MPEG4 and the boxes we have are not compatible. The first one or the third one, they should be at a minimal cost and $99 is not minimal, at least not to me.


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## anubys

wipeout said:


> I think that Directv should be swapping out all HR10's that we have with HR20's at no cost period. It isn't the customer's fault they have chosen to go with MPEG4 and the boxes we have are not compatible. The first one or the third one, they should be at a minimal cost and $99 is not minimal, at least not to me.


my point exactly...I'm glad someone agrees with me...I was starting to think I was all alone with this point of view...


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## Earl Bonovich

They probably will.. (replace receivers for no cost)....
But you will most likely have to wait until they start to shutdown the MPEG-2 HD feeds.


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## bonscott87

wipeout said:


> I think that Directv should be swapping out all HR10's that we have with HR20's at no cost period. It isn't the customer's fault they have chosen to go with MPEG4 and the boxes we have are not compatible. The first one or the third one, they should be at a minimal cost and $99 is not minimal, at least not to me.


While I agree keep this in mind: Conversion to MPEG4 has been known about as long as the HR10 has been out. It's why I never got an HR10. So an informed customer would have known 2+ years ago that the HR10 wouldn't work with the MPEG4 channels.


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## jabrwocky7

Is there any chance of DirecTV working with Tivo to put out a Series 3 HD DirecTivo that supports mpeg-4? That's something I would wait for. If there is no chance, then I'd consider the current offer in order to get the new channels.


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## Earl Bonovich

jabrwocky7 said:


> Is there any chance of DirecTV working with Tivo to put out a Series 3 HD DirecTivo that supports mpeg-4? That's something I would wait for. If there is no chance, then I'd consider the current offer in order to get the new channels.


Depending on who you talk to...
There are those in the believe that last weeke announcements that lead to that...

There are others (like me), that the chances are SLIM to NONE, and SLIM just got on a plane....


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## harsh

jabrwocky7 said:


> Is there any chance of DirecTV working with Tivo to put out a Series 3 HD DirecTivo that supports mpeg-4?


It appears unlikely.


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## onin24eagle

bonscott87 said:


> While I agree keep this in mind: Conversion to MPEG4 has been known about as long as the HR10 has been out. It's why I never got an HR10. So an informed customer would have known 2+ years ago that the HR10 wouldn't work with the MPEG4 channels.


This is an entire crock. An informed customer? You mean some geek who frequents boards like this right?

The average customer has no clue, and why should they? Did Directv put warnings on all the Tivo's they sold stating they would soon be incapable of decoding HD?

I agree with most others. If D* doesn't swap all my 3 boxes for "FREE," I will bail to Dish.


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## Lee L

I preordered my first HR10-250 months before it was available and frequented AVS, DBStalk and TiVoCommunity. I do not remember any talk of MPEG 4 until just after they came out and I would love to see something predating early 2004 saying differently. I agree there is no way the vast majority of HR10-250 owners even heard about the conversion. In fact, aside from boards like this, I have heard nothing on the MPEG4 changes, just that there will be all these new HD channels. I would say most HR10-250 owners are sitting at home waiting for all these channels to pop up real soon now.

But, I will also say that I have gotten my money's worth out of the things. At the same time, DirecTV would be stupid to piss off a customer paying over $1,500 a year for $200 one time payment. Especially considering ATT has finally gotten off their collective rears and announced a big push for U-Verse here in 2008.


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## bonscott87

Heck, the $99 offer is high. Most people talk to retention and get them for $19.95 if they have an HR10 already. May need CSR roulette or retention roulette but the deal is there.

This is in no way different then when they added the 119 sat and all the older receivers couldn't see or tune to the sat. I had to replace all my receivers to get my locals on 119.

The big deal with the HR10 isn't so much that it can't do MPEG4, it's that it can't tune to the new sats both due to location and it's KA band. MPEG4 is just a side effect that DirecTV decided that since they would have to replace all HD receivers anyway might as well go the direction the entire industry is going and that is MPEG4.

Dish is doing the very same thing right now. In fact they only announced a month ago that they were switching all the VOOM channels to MPEG4 middle of August and you need a new MPEG4 receiver to get them and here is the price to upgrade.

Technology changes and you either change with it or go to something else which of course will change eventually too.

What deal you get is up to you. Most with HR10's get HR20's for free or nearly free. Call and see what you can get. Keep calling until you get what you want.


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## msmith

bonscott87 said:


> While I agree keep this in mind: Conversion to MPEG4 has been known about as long as the HR10 has been out. It's why I never got an HR10. So an informed customer would have known 2+ years ago that the HR10 wouldn't work with the MPEG4 channels.


I got mine about 6 months after they came out (at $1000) and they hadn't announced MPEG 4 yet. I expect a free conversion.

Ditto for my Sony SAT-HD200 that I paid $800 for.


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## bonscott87

Then go for it. 

I did not expect a free conversion for my old Hughes E-86 I paid $500 for. But that's just me I guess. 
Technology changes. I don't expect a free conversion from my 4 year old $2500 laptop because it can't run the latest programs or (god forbid) Vista. Just different expectations I guess.


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## anubys

bonscott87 said:


> Then go for it.
> 
> I did not expect a free conversion for my old Hughes E-86 I paid $500 for. But that's just me I guess.
> Technology changes. I don't expect a free conversion from my 4 year old $2500 laptop because it can't run the latest programs or (god forbid) Vista. Just different expectations I guess.


DirecTV senior management told the world in press releases and to their investors that the conversion would be done at little or no cost to their customers...we all read the transcripts of their call with wall street analysts...this is not a secret...

DirecTV is now backing out of a promise they made to their customers...that's the point those who are not happy with this news are making...


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## bonscott87

anubys said:


> DirecTV senior management told the world in press releases and to their investors that the conversion would be done at little or no cost to their customers...we all read the transcripts of their call with wall street analysts...this is not a secret...
> 
> DirecTV is now backing out of a promise they made to their customers...that's the point those who are not happy with this news are making...


Oh I understand. The problem really is that the CSRs suck and to get one on the phone that actually knows what is gong on and not using 4 year old scripts is like pulling teeth. It shouldn't be that way but unfortunately CSR roulette is in full play here. But getting your upgrade for free or nearly free is certainly possible and attainable.


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## High Technology

Earl Bonovich said:


> Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm
> 
> Major points:
> 1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels. Confirmed by DirecTV.
> 2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
> 3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)
> 
> My comments about #3:
> -) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
> -) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


Interesting that nobody has raised the obvious question of lease vs. ownership and the need for a 2 year committment. My guess is that the $99 will entail a leased receiver (especially since you "keep" your TiVo), and there will be a committment required. Again, these are my assumptions...

Personally, I don't mind the $99 charge (ahthough free would be better), but the need to sign on for another 2 years really would bother me. I bought my equipment, satisfied my committment, and would rather be month-to-month. It is DirecTV's choice to go MPEG 4, not mine, so they should provide customers with replacement equipment at no charge and without additional committments.

But the very reason I want to stay month-to-month, is the very reason DirecTV would like me to be under contact. Real competition is coming, in the form of FiOS, cable, etc.


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## aktick

I've no doubt I'll be able to get a H20 for next to nothing, having been a good customer for 10 years...I'm just not willing to fork over $99 for a 2nd one. I have 2 HR10s, which I paid about $400 each for (I know, not as much as a lot of you), so I figure if they'll give me 1 H20 for nothing (to replace 1 HR10 I paid $400 for), they should be just as willing to give me a 2nd H20 for nothing (to replace the 2nd HR10 I paid $400 for).

I'm going to start calling and see what I can get.


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## employee3

After playing on the phone with 1 csr for 20 minutes, who insisted all I need was a dish upgrade :nono2: (I already have a 5lnb, self installed thank you very much). Ended that conversation, called right back and got ahold of someone who knew exactly what I was talking about (HR10-250 to HR20 deal). Got it for $19.95 handling. Didn't even have to ask. This is my second : the first I paid the full $300 for.

Just as in life, there are a wide variety of CSR knowledge. Some treat this as a job, while others are obvious enthusiasts (ok, that may be stretching it, but they do know the technology). Keep plowing ahead, and you will get someone to help you.

I know it's not _supposed_ to be like that, but it is. Same with the installers. I will never ever ever never ever let another installer "install" my equipment. No offense to the good ones out there, but there are not enough of you. So when the guy comes I'll have the 2 sat lines, phone line and component/optical ready to go.:icon_hroc


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## bigmac94

wipeout said:


> I think that Directv should be swapping out all HR10's that we have with HR20's at no cost period. It isn't the customer's fault they have chosen to go with MPEG4 and the boxes we have are not compatible. The first one or the third one, they should be at a minimal cost and $99 is not minimal, at least not to me.


 We have just upgraded to the A9 dish & HR20 & still have 2 HR10s with another HiDef reciever in Service.
Have asked that Same question (upgrading All Recievers) to the fella I was talking to at Directv,and his reply was the csrs were talking about that very thing and nothing was finalized as of yet To their Knowledge As far as Swapping out all Recievers. 
Any ideas on this Earl?


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## Milominderbinder2

Lee L said:


> I have 2 and I will not pay more than $99 total for a new dish and 2 HR20's. I will whine up a storm if they do not give me that stuff for $19.99 but will pay $99. Considering the monthly bill we pay (we have the TC premier or whatever they call it now and 4 active receivers, plus we get the College Football package and March madness) They hopefully will step up.
> 
> I wonder if I waited just a little too long though if they are putting some official policy in place.


If I am working this through right...

Six months ago you could have gotten the $99 upgrade deal and sold the HR10's for $400 each. You could have made $300 on each HR10.

Today you can upgrade your HR10 for $99. They will let you keep the HR10. You turn around and sell it on eBay for $200.

So today you can still make $100 on each HR10. You have lost $200 each since last winter.

Let's say that around the end of the year, the HR10's become worthless and DIRECTV offers to replace them.

So you lose another $100 per HR10 if you wait?

Plus we have heard from multiply people that just by calling back they are often able to get the HR10's for just shipping of $19.

Here is the link with story after story of HR10 users getting upgrades for $19 each:

What the Deals are, and what are you being told by CSR?

So instead of making $100 or $200 per HR10 now, you want to wait and make nothing?

Why?

- Craig


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## wipeout

I got my HR20 for $21.19 (shippinh). It will be installed tomorrow.


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## Lee L

Milominderbinder2 said:


> If I am working this through right...
> 
> Six months ago you could have gotten the $99 upgrade deal and sold the HR10's for $400 each. You could have made $300 on each HR10.
> 
> Today you can upgrade your HR10 for $99. They will let you keep the HR10. You turn around and sell it on eBay for $200.
> 
> So today you can still make $100 on each HR10. You have lost $200 each since last winter.
> 
> Let's say that around the end of the year, the HR10's become worthless and DIRECTV offers to replace them.
> 
> So you lose another $100 per HR10 if you wait?
> 
> Plus we have heard from multiply people that just by calling back they are often able to get the HR10's for just shipping of $19.
> 
> Here is the link with story after story of HR10 users getting upgrades for $19 each:
> 
> What the Deals are, and what are you being told by CSR?
> 
> So instead of making $100 or $200 per HR10 now, you want to wait and make nothing?
> 
> Why?
> 
> - Craig


Well, I originally planned to keep the HR10s for most stuff including OTA HD and use the HR20s just for the new channels, but since they have improved the HR20s decently in the last few months ( ithink 6 months ago, I still could not have received OTA HD on the HR20), I recently changed my mind and figure I will just go with the HR20s only, at least after we get the backlog of shows off the HR10s.

To be totally honest, I had not checked Ebay pricing on the HR10. I thought it would be worth next to nothing by now, but it does figure that the fools on ebay will still pay top dollar.

You do make good points and I will reconsider as being able to make money off the things is unexpeceted, but I still don't want to go to the trouble of selling the boxes as I bought the HR10-250 as a programming delivery device and feel that if D* wants me to keep receiving their programming and paying their bills, it will be in their best interest to let me do that as cheaply as possible.

I could just as easily strip the 3 250 gig hard drives out and toss them into a Windows Home server box along with the 2 400s I have now for some extra storage.


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## Ric

Just went through this with them. Here's the quick summary:

1) got letter confirming I need the new B-Band converters beginning in Sept to get new HD channels
2) I called a CSR to verify that the HD Tivo will not be able to pick up new channels and how do I get a new receiver. She was clueless and said new channels will also work with all the receivers.
3) Came here to see what others were doing - saw the posts about calling the D* main number and just saying cancel to get to a new dept
4) When answered, just explained that I had been transferred around and had talked to Tech support and I do need a new receiver (I had actually confirmed with support earlier that I did). Said I really hoped I was finally in the right place b/c wife was really mad that we just bought a new tv for HD and now she wouldn't be able to see all the new stuff
5) This person said ok - spent a few minutes offline and came back with 19.95 shipping and an install on Wed. To note, I did receive a new receiver last year at same shipping price so its just a matter of getting to the right person


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## Italfra1

Ric said:


> Just went through this with them. Here's the quick summary:
> 
> 1) got letter confirming I need the new B-Band converters beginning in Sept to get new HD channels
> 2) I called a CSR to verify that the HD Tivo will not be able to pick up new channels and how do I get a new receiver. She was clueless and said new channels will also work with all the receivers.
> 3) Came here to see what others were doing - saw the posts about calling the D* main number and just saying cancel to get to a new dept
> 4) When answered, just explained that I had been transferred around and had talked to Tech support and I do need a new receiver (I had actually confirmed with support earlier that I did). Said I really hoped I was finally in the right place b/c wife was really mad that we just bought a new tv for HD and now she wouldn't be able to see all the new stuff
> 5) This person said ok - spent a few minutes offline and came back with 19.95 shipping and an install on Wed. To note, I did receive a new receiver last year at same shipping price so its just a matter of getting to the right person


Ditto,

I just got off the phone with a Retention rep. and they gave me the exact same deal. After hearing from numerous other reps that they could upgrade my HR10-250 to a HR20-700 for $299.00, then $199.00, then a monthly credit, etc. I said get me to someone in the Retention dept. that can give me this upgrade for S & H.

This is my second HR20-700 upgrade for free. My first one was almost a year ago when they came out with the HR20-700 shortly after I purchased the HR10-250. They gave me a free upgrade without a hassle. Now it was as easy as getting the right person and explaining to them that I just didn't want to pay a dime for a second upgrade. I'm fine with shipping and handling. It is a leased piece of equipment and I did sign on for two more years. None of that bothers me, even with the compitition starting to heat up in the HD world.

I've never had problems with contracts because if your that interested in jumping ship to another provider, the new provider will consider buying you out of your old contract just to have you come on board.

I still think D* is the leader in HD and at times it can be real challenging dealing with the CSR's but they have given me everything I have ever asked for. You just need to work them a bit. I'm happy.


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## Yengis12

Hi all,

I've been lurking on DBSTalk for a number of years and have finally decided to sign up to report my positive experience for getting an upgrade for my HR10-250. I have been with DTV for 8 years and have an HR20-700 in addition to myr HR10. I decided to play CSR roulette based on the input here and to beat the rush when the new channels go live in September. First call I got a pleasant and knowledgable CSR who confirmed I could get an HR20-700 upgrade. Not only did he waive the $99 fee but he also waved the $19.95 S & H fee; all without my even asking! Much better than some of my past experiences. Thanks for the heads-up on this. Also, thanks to Earl for the valuable info over the years. I'm off to buy some lottery tickets since this must be my lucky day!


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## jheda

welcome...how about joining dbstalk -$15 better spent then lotto!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yengis12 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been lurking on DBSTalk for a number of years and have finally decided to sign up to report my positive experience for getting an upgrade for my HR10-250. I have been with DTV for 8 years and have an HR20-700 in addition to myr HR10. I decided to play CSR roulette based on the input here and to beat the rush when the new channels go live in September. First call I got a pleasant and knowledgable CSR who confirmed I could get an HR20-700 upgrade. Not only did he waive the $99 fee but he also waved the $19.95 S & H fee; all without my even asking! Much better than some of my past experiences. Thanks for the heads-up on this. Also, thanks to Earl for the valuable info over the years. I'm off to buy some lottery tickets since this must be my lucky day!


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## D1DAVE

I have been with DTV since 1996. I have purchased and installed all my own gear including dish, cables etc. Purchased a hr10-250 for $499.95 with a rebate about a year and a half ago. Decided to upgrade to a hr20-100. Got 2 free h20 receivers, hr20-100 and new 5-lnb dish about 4 or 5 months ago. I had DTV install the dish and I must say the job mounting that puppy was done very professionally! I got all this for $99.00 and consider this money well spent.
Oh yeah, got $270.00 on Ebay for the hr10-250. I am glad I did it and the hr20-100 is excellent!


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## HDTVFanAtic

wipeout said:


> I think that Directv should be swapping out all HR10's that we have with HR20's at no cost period. It isn't the customer's fault they have chosen to go with MPEG4 and the boxes we have are not compatible. The first one or the third one, they should be at a minimal cost and $99 is not minimal, at least not to me.


Call them up and tell them your HR10-250 went out.

They seem to be saying "we'll send a new unit out, but we don't send out TIVOs, it will be a HR20" over the past few weeks.


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## dennya

Anyone made the switch and regret it? We have an HR10-250 in our living room, and an HR20 in the bedroom, and I pretty much despise the UI on the HR20.

But my HR10 started getting flaky tonight. Plus the new channels. Plus apparently you can (unsupported) now use the ESATA port on the HR20? If true on the ESATA, that eliminates my biggest issue. (Since I do want more HD recording capacity than the HR20 offers by default, particularly if more channels will be HD.)

Those of you who've gotten the $20 deal... Do you just ask to be transferred to retention?


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## Milominderbinder2

dennya said:


> ...Plus apparently you can (unsupported) now use the eSATA port on the HR20?...
> Those of you who've gotten the $20 deal... Do you just ask to be transferred to retention?


1. This forum has hundreds of posts about installing an eSATA. The Seagate Free Agent 750 is a current favorite at around $200-$230 on sale. You also need the eSATA cable for about $20. Turn off the HR20 and unplug. Plug in the eSATA to the HR20 and turn it on. Plug the HR20 back in. Done.

2. Here are dozens of the $20 upgrade success stories.

Here are hundreds more.

3. To call for the best upgrade price at the first prompt say cancel service. That puts you to retention. Call during business hours. Be polite. Research competitive offers ahead of time. Do not threaten. Although some successfully negotiated on the first call, others took three to four calls to get the right CSR.

4. Factor in the average $200 price you can still get on eBay.

There are some other resources in my signature below:


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## Milominderbinder2

Correction. The average price for a non-hacked HR10's on eBay is no longer $200.

Six months ago they were $400. A month ago they averaged $250. Last week $200.

Now the average HR10 price is down to about $180.

- Craig


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## dennya

Thanks, Milominderbinder2. That's some great info. Off to read. 

The one thing I haven't found is a definitive list of the HD channels that the upgrade is going to add. Still deciding if it's worth dealing with the DirecTV UI to get the new channels, or if I'd rather stick to Tivo...


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## anubys

dennya said:


> Thanks, Milominderbinder2. That's some great info. Off to read.
> 
> The one thing I haven't found is a definitive list of the HD channels that the upgrade is going to add. Still deciding if it's worth dealing with the DirecTV UI to get the new channels, or if I'd rather stick to Tivo...


well, it's not definitive, but here's the list as we know it

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87235


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## bonscott87

Just my opinion but spending 15 minutes learning a new UI is worth 100 HD channels.


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## Draconis

I hate to say this, satellite receivers are subject to Moore's Law just like any other piece of technology. 

While we may complain that the unit no longer works the way we want it to, the fact remains that it is working exactly as it was designed. At $749 each, I highly doubt that DIRECTV would upgrade every HD DVR for free. 

$99 is not all that bad of a price, try upgrading your 3-year old PC for that much. 

(If you think I’m kidding about the $749 call and ask for an owned (not leased) receiver.) 

Of course that is spoken by someone who has not forked out the money for a HD DVR yet. So please take my remarks with a grain of salt.


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## newsposter

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Call them up and tell them your HR10-250 went out.
> 
> They seem to be saying "we'll send a new unit out, but we don't send out TIVOs, it will be a HR20" over the past few weeks.


but how do you get the new dish and new cables and new switch?


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## Milominderbinder2

newsposter said:


> but how do you get the new dish and new cables and new switch?


You will get all of that for free!

Here are dozens of the $20 upgrade success stories.

Here are hundreds more.

To call for the best upgrade price at the first prompt say cancel service. That puts you to retention. Call during business hours. Be polite. Research competitive offers ahead of time. Do not threaten. Although some successfully negotiated on the first call, others took three to four calls to get the right CSR.

Just call them!

Factor in the average $180 price you can still get on eBay. (Was $200 last week.)

There are some other resources in my signature below Be sure and read the installation tips for details.

Yes. It really is that good of a deal!

- Craig


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## rahchgo

dennya said:


> Thanks, Milominderbinder2. That's some great info. Off to read.
> 
> The one thing I haven't found is a definitive list of the HD channels that the upgrade is going to add. Still deciding if it's worth dealing with the DirecTV UI to get the new channels, or if I'd rather stick to Tivo...


You don't mention how long you have had the HR20, but if you have never read the "Tivo to HR20 Survival Guide", I highly recommend it. It helped me to love the HR20 UI even more than the Tivo's UI. To find the document, follow the link in Milominderbinder2's signature.


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## rahchgo

Since you get to keep the HR10-250 on an upgrade, how many times can you call back and upgrade it?  I upgraded to HR20 last January so that I could get Comcast SportsNetwork Chicago in HD this summer. Worth the $199 upgrade price to me, just for that. Moved my HR10 to a SD TV in another room and replaced the DVR40 Tivo there. That gives me access to the HD package of channels, even though I can't watch them in HD. No real need to upgrade that for now. I also have a HTL-HD (Hughes non-DVR HD receiver) attached to a 19" monitor in my home office. H20 might be nice there. Don't want to upgrade either of them till SWM is available. It will require at least a switch, and I'd rather use SWM if I have to add a switch, so I can keep the OTA.


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## Earl Bonovich

rahchgo said:


> Since you get to keep the HR10-250 on an upgrade, how many times can you call back and upgrade it?  I upgraded to HR20 last January so that I could get Comcast SportsNetwork Chicago in HD this summer. Worth the $199 upgrade price to me, just for that. Moved my HR10 to a SD TV in another room and replaced the DVR40 Tivo there. That gives me access to the HD package of channels, even though I can't watch them in HD. No real need to upgrade that for now. I also have a HTL-HD (Hughes non-DVR HD receiver) attached to a 19" monitor in my home office. H20 might be nice there. Don't want to upgrade either of them till SWM is available. It will require at least a switch, and I'd rather use SWM if I have to add a switch, so I can keep the OTA.


They do keep track of what "deals" you have gotten.... for pretty much ever now with their latest CS software....


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## bertman64

Tonite the DTV guy said 99.00 plus 19.95 but it would be a SWAP out and I would have to give up my HR10-250. I said NO DEAL since I have 3 SD dvr's I would rather get rid of and I told him I don't want to give up a 200 hour TIVO I paid several hundred dollars for! Also he said all the MPEG-2 HD channels will quit working within a month of the new rollout.


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## anubys

bertman64 said:


> Tonite the DTV guy said 99.00 plus 19.95 but it would be a SWAP out and I would have to give up my HR10-250. I said NO DEAL since I have 3 SD dvr's I would rather get rid of and I told him I don't want to give up a 200 hour TIVO I paid several hundred dollars for! Also he said all the MPEG-2 HD channels will quit working within a month of the new rollout.


they call it swap, but they do leave the old unit...if need be, just buy any old and useless series 1 for $10 and swap THAT


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## Lord Vader

This past week I got my first HR20-100 to supplement, not replace, one of my three HR10-250s. They gave it to me at no cost, except for the $19.95 "shipping" (now why even charge that if the installer brings it out anyway?). Today I called up and after much hemming and hawing got two more HR20's on order for $99 each, NO shipping this time (weird), AND an immediate $150.00 credit on my bill. So this amounts to a $198 charge on my bill and a $150 credit for a net cost of $48 for two more HR20 HD DVRs. The net cost effectively equals the cost of shipping for two units. Go figure. Regardless, I'm basically getting two more units for "free," in a sense, similar to my first.

I won't complain about that.


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## Rich

anubys said:


> my point exactly...I'm glad someone agrees with me...I was starting to think I was all alone with this point of view...


All my Ultimate TVs were swapped out with TiVos at no cost to me. Now if I send a TiVo back, I get an R15 at no cost. I agree with you, they should continue to replace the HD TiVos at no cost. Past practice counts.


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## Rich

onin24eagle said:


> This is an entire crock. An informed customer? You mean some geek who frequents boards like this right?
> 
> The average customer has no clue, and why should they? Did Directv put warnings on all the Tivo's they sold stating they would soon be incapable of decoding HD?
> 
> I agree with most others. If D* doesn't swap all my 3 boxes for "FREE," I will bail to Dish.


Bill Gates is a "geek" and seems to have done rather well for himself. Wish I was that "geeked up". That term has taken on a derogatory meaning over the years that it doesn't deserve. Don't remember anyone disagreeing with bonscott before, he is usually right on the money and easy to understand.


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## Rich

bonscott87 said:


> Then go for it.
> 
> I did not expect a free conversion for my old Hughes E-86 I paid $500 for. But that's just me I guess.
> Technology changes. I don't expect a free conversion from my 4 year old $2500 laptop because it can't run the latest programs or (god forbid) Vista. Just different expectations I guess.


Hey Scott,

I like Vista. Had problems with it?


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## Rich

bonscott87 said:


> Oh I understand. The problem really is that the CSRs suck and to get one on the phone that actually knows what is gong on and not using 4 year old scripts is like pulling teeth. It shouldn't be that way but unfortunately CSR roulette is in full play here. But getting your upgrade for free or nearly free is certainly possible and attainable.


I have four HR20s and paid $239 at CC for one, the rest were free from D*. Patience and politeness help when dealing with these people (CSRs) who have customers screaming at them.


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## Rich

anubys said:


> they call it swap, but they do leave the old unit...if need be, just buy any old and useless series 1 for $10 and swap THAT


Has to be an activated unit to swap it out.


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## wolverine1701

I just got my first HR20 for only $19.95. First it was $299, then $150 off. After talking to them some more they were going to give it to me for $99 with a $10 off my bill for a year. Then told me they couldn't do that anymore and they were going to give it to me for free just pay the $19.95 and it will be installed in two days. Yeah I figured I would have to wait a week or so. I was very nice on the phone and was shocked I got this deal being it was my first call!!


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## obxterra

Talked to 3 CSR's yesterday trying to get a decent deal to replace one of two H10-250's with an HR20. Best I could get was $199 plus shipping ($99 plus shipping on a second unit). When I balked on that the last CSR offered $10 off a month for 6 months. 

But, none of them would ship direct, I had to have the free install. I have installed the Slimline 5 LNB dish myself and I already have an H20 in use. The explanation I got was that the install tech needed to pickup and return the H10-250(s).

The usual routine I get locally is, the installer pulls up in my driveway, looks at all the trees, backsup turns around and leaves. Once I actually had to talk the tech into getting out of his truck regarding a receiver upgrade because he couldn't believe I was already a subscriber.

If I hadn't done all my own installs I wouldn't even be a subscriber (since '97).

Sorry about the length, the short of it is that I decided to order from SolidSignal for the convenience of direct shipping and self-install.


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## peters4n6

So when will HD no longer be available on my HR10-250 boxes? Someone posted within a month of the new HD rollout...others have stated it'll be a while. Which is it? Does anyone _really_ know/

Eric


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## Lord Vader

They're not going to just remove HD channels from the HR10-250. Too many people still have these. These units will continue to have the small number of HD channels they presently have, but this won't stay that way forever.


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## anubys

peters4n6 said:


> So when will HD no longer be available on my HR10-250 boxes? Someone posted within a month of the new HD rollout...others have stated it'll be a while. Which is it? Does anyone _really_ know/
> 
> Eric


no one knows...but it's safe to say "until most of the mpeg2 receivers have been replaced by mpeg4 ones"...how fast DirecTV is replacing them and what is the definition of "most" is entirely up to DirecTV...


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## wilbur_the_goose

anubys - good point.

But laggards will need to be gently pushed to the next gen. I'll bet that all HD will be MPEG-4 by next year at this time (this is a swag!)


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## Milominderbinder2

Did you see these other threads?

There are now 80 new HD channels in "Test Mode".

Here are screen shots of the channels.

In addition, the FCC approved moving the date from Sept 14 to Sept 1.

DISCLAIMERS: It is expected that it will still take at least 3 days after that but it could be weeks and there is no guaranty that all 80 will come at once. Nor can we expect the channels to broadcast 100% HD for some time to come.

Still, good news!

- Craig


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## Milominderbinder2

The $19.99 upgrade offer is not just for the HR10.

I called in yesterday to see if my old Sony SAT-T60 could qualify for the upgrade. They said YES and were asking to set up the install before I could respond. When I balked, they offered months of free HD programming.

Here are the steps to getting the $19 deal if you can qualify:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1076843&postcount=2487

Will they still be willing to do the $19 deal once a million of your closest friends call in asking to upgrade? What will HR20 delivery times be? We may know in the next couple of weeks...

- Craig

_OK, they might get less than a million calls when the new HD channels hit..._


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## Rich

wilbur_the_goose said:


> anubys - good point.
> 
> But laggards will need to be gently pushed to the next gen. I'll bet that all HD will be MPEG-4 by next year at this time (this is a swag!)


Nah, they're still supporting Ultimate TV. They'll keep supporting the HD TiVos rather than lose a sub.


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## wilbur_the_goose

But they'll be able to add dozens of SD MPEG-2 channels if they move the HDs to MPEG-4. 

DirecTV wants to provide its customers with the best service. I was a TiVo-phile, but believe me, the HR20 is better with 2 exceptions: Suggestions and dual live buffers.


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## Rich

wilbur_the_goose said:


> But they'll be able to add dozens of SD MPEG-2 channels if they move the HDs to MPEG-4.
> 
> DirecTV wants to provide its customers with the best service. I was a TiVo-phile, but believe me, the HR20 is better with 2 exceptions: Suggestions and dual live buffers.


They'll have to replace HD TiVos with HR20s as you send them for replacement under the PP. As soon as they have most of the TiVos replaced they will dump the MPEG2 High Def channels. Then the rest of the HD TiVo users will have to switch theirs out. Takes a while, they are still trying to phase out Ultimate TV and when you send a bad TiVo SD back you get an R-15 back.


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## magicboy2

Just got off the phone. I've been a subscriber for the past three years or so, with HD package and HBO. Currently have an HR10-250 (that I will cry when it gets unhooked, by the way).

Called 1800-DIRECTV, said "cancel"
A retention agent picked up immediately
Said "what can you do to get me an HR20"
She checked and said "I can give it to you for the handling cost, $19, if you agree to a two year contract extension."
I asked if there were any programming credits to go along with it.
She said she could give me $10 off per month for the next year.
I said I'd take it.

Whole thing took less than 10 minutes and involved no threats or negotiations.


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## Poochie

I have been a subscriber for almost 3 years, the last 2 years with HR10-250 and HD package. I have not switched to the HR20 because I love my TiVo and wanted to hold on to it for as long as possible, although I do want to watch some of the upcoming new HD networks.

Yesterday I received an automated phone message from DirecTV stating that soon I would "require a new receiver," and that they could "upgrade [my] receiver free of charge" if I called their "dedicated upgrade line" which begins with 866. Has anyone else received or taken advantage of this offer? Does this mean free + handling charge? Do I keep the HD TiVo? Thanks.


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## dave29

usually you pay the shipping and you can keep your tivo.


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## harsh

magicboy2 said:


> Whole thing took less than 10 minutes and involved no threats or negotiations.


On the planet I come from, telling them you want to cancel is a threat.


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## fredandbetty

wilbur_the_goose said:


> But they'll be able to add dozens of SD MPEG-2 channels if they move the HDs to MPEG-4.
> 
> DirecTV wants to provide its customers with the best service. I was a TiVo-phile, but believe me, the HR20 is better with 2 exceptions: Suggestions and dual live buffers.


i actually like NOT having suggestions ( this was before i found out you could turn them OFF ) LOL!!


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## Milominderbinder2

I miss suggestions...

The best you can do is get your suggestions from the directv.com website.

- Craig


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## Milominderbinder2

harsh said:


> On the planet I come from, telling them you want to cancel is a threat.


Saying "cancel" at the main prompt is the password to get to Retention. Once you are there, do not say anything about canceling. Do not get angry. Be courteous and kind. Do not make threats.

We have had a few stories of angry people unable to get any discounts. In variably they at one point threatened a CSR. That is a note that will stay in your record. Belittling others is never the right approach.

Bullies are cowards who are terrified they will be find out.

- Craig


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## Milominderbinder2

The new HD satellite and it's transponders started showing up in the signal strengths a few days ago. On Friday as I watched them, I would sometimes catch one jiggle up to 93 or 96 for a bit and then go back down to 0 again.



Code:


	103º(b) Tuner 1 & Tuner 2							
1-8	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
9-16	0	0	0	0	0	0	N/A	N/A
17-24	0	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	0	N/A	N/A
25-32	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A

This is yet another big step in getting the new HD.

- Craig


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## Milominderbinder2

I keep refining our notes based on everyone's best tips. I called a couple days ago about my old Sony SAT-T60 and they would do this deal even for an old SD. Here they are...

Getting a Good Deal on an HR20

Good luck!

- Craig


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## bustert

I am getting ready to try for at least one HR 20 to replace one of my two HR 10 250'S. I am wondering if I should I go for both now, and will they do two for [email protected] do you think? (including the 5 LNB and install) 

The other thought was do one now and wait on the second to see if a new TiVo will be available to swap for later?

Is the SWM(?) available now? I have an OTA attic antenna diplexed in now but I understand that won't work with the HR 20. Correct?

Thanks
bustert


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## Lord Vader

There isn't going to be a new DirecTV HD TIVO, so don't wait on that. Secondly, OTA antennas will work fine with the HR20s. I've got the Silver Sensor on my HR20-700 and it works fine.


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## dennisdh

bustert said:


> I am getting ready to try for at least one HR 20 to replace one of my two HR 10 250'S. I am wondering if I should I go for both now, and will they do two for [email protected] do you think? (including the 5 LNB and install)
> 
> The other thought was do one now and wait on the second to see if a new TiVo will be available to swap for later?
> 
> Is the SWM(?) available now? I have an OTA attic antenna diplexed in now but I understand that won't work with the HR 20. Correct?
> 
> Thanks
> bustert


I have an hr20-700 and a hr10-250 does any body know if I can get a deal on upgrding my hr10-250 to hr20? and if so details please.


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## msmith

dennisdh said:


> I have an hr20-700 and a hr10-250 does any body know if I can get a deal on upgrding my hr10-250 to hr20? and if so details please.


In other threads, folks are indicating that if you haven't gotten a deal on an HR20 in the last 6 months you should be able to get the HR20 for free. You'll most likely be able to keep the HR10 and continue to use it (though not for MPEG4) for the extra receiver fee of $5.


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## bullitt

bonscott87 said:


> Then go for it.
> 
> I did not expect a free conversion for my old Hughes E-86 I paid $500 for. But that's just me I guess.
> Technology changes. I don't expect a free conversion from my 4 year old $2500 laptop because it can't run the latest programs or (god forbid) Vista. Just different expectations I guess.


Here's my take on this.
We all understand that technology changes and usually you have a choice whether or not to keep pace. An example is Digital Sound Processing for Home Theater, DD 5.1. 6.1, 7.1, DTS, Pro Logic I, Pro Logic II etc. I have an investment in thousands of dollars in a Processor and Amp for my system that is 5.1. I have opted to stay with 5.1 and I suffer no real disadvantage. I do not have to replace it because it is still compatible with todays technology and available sources. I do not have to replace my Progressive Scan DVD player because of Blue Ray or HD DVD. If you replace the operating system for a subscription based business then you need to upgrade your customers for free or make it backward compatible.
If Verizon swithces to new system and my phone is rendered useless then I expect them to replace it or allow me to opt out of my contract.

By the way, I got my HR20-700 upgrade including 5LNB Dish and Multiswitch for free when last software update for 10-250 screwed it up.


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## Milominderbinder2

dennisdh said:


> I have an hr20-700 and a hr10-250 does any body know if I can get a deal on upgrding my hr10-250 to hr20? and if so details please.


Jump in now while they are still doing the $19 deals!

Getting a Good Deal on an HR20

I got actually better than the $19 deal on my old Sony SD TiVo.

Operators are standing by!

- Craig


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## sunking

Today I actually managed to get D* to pay me to upgrade!

I called them this morning and finagled the $19.99 deal. Initially they offered me the standard $99 deal. I said I'd have to think about it, mentioned how if you figure out the life of my tivo it comes out to over $300/year this thing cost me and that I knew people were being offered 19.99. All the while being as polite as one can possibly be when you are calling out a company . I was really trying to be as polite as possible just because it's the way I am. She did another one of those back in 5 minutes while I check (like when a car salesman goes to talk to his manager, only these guys probably play a few games of minesweeper  She came back and gave me what I expected.

Then I simply asked if they could do it so that if I were to buy one from a local store if they'd give me a credit when I activated it. I simply hate waiting for stuff in the mail when I could have it withing 30 minutes.

She agreed, however said she can't do more than a $250 credit at a time. I said that's fine, no problem. I'll pay for my impatience.

So, off I go to Costco and low and behold, $269. So I'm all happy figuring my impatience cost me nothing, I'm still getting it for ~$20.

So I get home, verify I have the note about getting the credit and activate. After activation they had to send me back to retention because apparently they were the only ones who could actually apply the credit. They said 'no problem', you have a $280 credit! I said, 'err...great!' and was on my merry way. ~$7 in my pocket after taxes! I checked online and the credit is there.

By the way, everyone I talked to was very courteous throughout the whole thing.


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## onin24eagle

rich584 said:


> Bill Gates is a "geek" and seems to have done rather well for himself. Wish I was that "geeked up". That term has taken on a derogatory meaning over the years that it doesn't deserve. Don't remember anyone disagreeing with bonscott before, he is usually right on the money and easy to understand.


Bill Gates? What does he have to do with any of this? YOU say derogatory. I was not using "geek" as a derogatory term. Actually, I am one of the "geeks" who hangs here which is why i know anything at all about upgrading.


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## Drew2k

onin24eagle said:


> Bill Gates? What does he have to do with any of this? YOU say derogatory. I was not using "geek" as a derogatory term. Actually, I am one of the "geeks" who hangs here which is why i know anything at all about upgrading.


Dude, you're replying to a post from two and a half months ago! Maybe you should visit DBSTalk more often?!


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## Rich

onin24eagle said:


> Bill Gates? What does he have to do with any of this? YOU say derogatory. I was not using "geek" as a derogatory term. Actually, I am one of the "geeks" who hangs here which is why i know anything at all about upgrading.


Did you read the previous posts? I was not looking for an argument with "geeks" but defending them.


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## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Dude, you're replying to a post from two and a half months ago! Maybe you should visit DBSTalk more often?!


WHAT WAS THAT? From August? And he hangs out here? Methinks he doth protest too much.


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## nuke

Man, I wish I was offered a similar deal.

I am having no luck whatsoever trying to get an upgrade deal.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=108505


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