# HR54 Network Issue - Minis Disconnect when connected to internet



## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

Hello, first post here. I've done many a search on this but have come up with vague answers so this you guys are my last hope!

Two weeks ago I had the following installed:

HR54 Genie Server
3 x C41 Genie Minis (Not Wireless)
New Dish with latest SWM LNB
Splitter 4-way DirecTv provided
New cable runs

Upon installation, tech set up HR54 and minis. All were working fine until the tech asked me to put in my WiFi password to have the HR54 hooked up to my network. After the HR54 connected, all the minis disconnected and would not reconnect to the HR54. Resetting them with the red button didn't work either. So, tech replaced the HR54 with a new one from his truck and went through all the same steps. This time everything seemed fine. About 2 hours after he left, the minis all disconnected (the HR54 is still running fine) and after troubleshooting for a few hours (I'm a network admin) I gave up and called DTV. They had the tech dispatched the next AM. At this point I was able to get one of the minis working by moving a TV and Mini to the splitter location with a short coax cable, I had also changed the WiFi to a hardwired Ethernet cable. Tech found some bad cable on the roof and said that could be causing the issue, new cable run installed and all was working fine. Two hours later....minis disconnected again (HR54 is still fine). Called DTV, tech to be dispatched next day. 

Now...when I asked the tech on install day why he cannot use my hard wired ethernet he said that it would not work. (which I know is BS) but that is what seemed to fix the original issue. So the new tech arrives (this is visit number 3 now) and he is stumped. He sees the ethernet cable and says....'this is the problem". HUH? It was working. So, Ok...change back to WiFi...which connects the HR54 but the minis will still not connect to the HR54. Tech is on with DTV support and they are all stumped. Original tech is supposed to come by the next morning (4th visit). I decide to just disconnect the HR54 from ANY network (wired or wireless) and reboot the HR54.......BAM....ALL THE MINIS ARE NOW WORKING!

Original tech comes by and says its my router causing the problems, its a Netgear r6300v2 AC1750. Never had any network issues before so I assumed it's not the router. Tech says to get the "free" router my cable internet provider uses (D‑Link DIR‑868L ) as he has seen this fix some issues before. I picked it up and installed it, hooked up the HR54 to the router (ethernet) and all was well for about a week. 

Now I am having the same problem again. No matter how I connect to the router (wifi or ethernet), after an hour or so all the minis will freeze and disconnect from the HR54.

I purchased a Linksys EA7500 router and installed it yesterday...still not working. I am at my wits end and cannot figure this out so I am hoping someone here has seen this before.

At this point I have left the HR54 disconnected from the network and the Minis are all still connected without issue. I know I only need network for PPV (which I never order) or the start from beginning feature which I REALLY love and used a lot this past week. That is the real reason I want to get this to work.

Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you, Kevin.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Did any of the Tech's install a CCK ? Cinema Connection kit? Just asking - if you were able to get a mini connected using a short cable (rg6) I would suspect possible cable issue (within your home) to those mini
locations. Did the tech's run ALL new inside wire to those locations?


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

The problem is not the coax. It's when I connect the HR54 to the internet. That is when the mini's stop working. There is no CCK.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

First the coax and length of coax could actually cause this. Changing it's length by short distances can fix weird reflection issues. But the odd part is that should always be a problem if it is a problem. 

I'd lean more towards...

I'd say try a cck first and foremost. I also think it's probably your network and a mini conflicting. The weird part is that it's all the minis. And with multiple routers I then lean towards something else on your network causing a conflict of ips or something. Have you tried disconnecting everything but your router and the dtv system from your network to see how it works then? Sometimes you have to remove as many possibilities as possible and slowly add stuff back till you narrow down the issue.


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

Ok, what is the sole purpose of the CCK?

Also, this isn't a wireless issue because it also happens when hard wired. 
I've also tried putting the IP of the HR54 in the DMZ of the router...problem persists.

I've got like 20 devices on my network that I have my work cut out for me removing them all  but I will try this. The problem is, that it takes like an hour or two before the issue occurs but once it occurs you cannot reconnect the minis without disconnecting from the internet and rebooting the HR54.

I know it's network related but the only thing that hasn't been changed is the actual cable modem. Not sure why that would be an issue though. Also, why did it work fine for a week after changing the router the first time?

UGH!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

A cck is basically an adapter to connect the internet to the coax line without going through the genie.


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

Is that something that I need to request from DTV?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

One piece of info that might help. 
The miniclients and the Genie communicate with each other using their own set of IP addresses (called "link local"), these are not the same as the IP address used to communicate with the internet. I have seen a few posts where the router was trying to pass these packets to the internet instead of routing them to the other boxes.


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

Interesting...but what can even be done about that if its the case. Not like we have access to change where the box is routing its traffic. Do you have any examples of these discussions?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Do you have a gateway or an standalone modem? Are you using multiple routers?

What is your network configuration?


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

You might try Static ip address in all Boxes it might a Ip renew issue-Just a thought - The CCK would put your mini's on the rg6 network (no Matter How your Genie is connected to the internet) Wired (rj45) or Wireless or Moco (deca)rg6.

Putting the mini's on a RG6 network takes them off your "wired" or "wireless" network and put them on it own network path removing them from your current lan network.


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

Wait...I thought the Minis were on the RG6....they are NOT wireless minis...they are hard wired with coax.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

The Netgear 6300 is fine. I have used it. Keep using it with no other routers.

I would do what others suggested. Either get a CCK to connect the R6300 to the network and disable the HR54 wireless or plug an ethernet cable into the HR54 and reboot.

If your HR54 wireess internet connection is flakey, it causes other grief.


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

NR4P: It didn't matter if It was wireless or ethernet...bother had the same results - Dead minis.

What I did was disable all clients (wired and wireless) on my router (the Linksys EA7500) and left only the HR54 on ethernet. Once that was done I did notice the HR54 AND the minis were showing in my network map on the router. I thought it was strange to see the minis as they are NOT wireless minis, they are RG6 connected minis. They are not pulling an IP from the router but I can clearly see their MAC address (which I noted and verified each). I guess the HR54 has it's own internal network (using the RG6 coax) and then passes the information to my network over the ethernet cable. Not sure why my router would need to know anything about the mini clients if the HR54 is taking care of them. 

Anyway....I restarted everything and the minis all came up just fine. I left it for 3 hours or so to make sure it was stable and then started adding my network clients back one at a time. So far I have not had any issues after doing this, but then again it took about a week for the problems to arise the last time. So, for now it's just a waiting game. I am hoping that it was just something on the network that was in a messed up state causing all this.

To Be Continued....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Minis grab an internal IP from the genie it's connected to and a IP from a router. 

Think of the genie as a network switch. Not a router behind which the minis sit. 

Part of the reason they get IP is so they can be controlled by the apps on your phone and such..


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

Coax will NOT cause this you have a problem with your router settings or something.


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

Well it happened again today. Come home from work and put on my Kitchen mini and nothing...

Rebooted everything and still nothing....I rebooted the one in my office and got "This Location Is Not Authorized". So...I went into my router and I could see the minis connected and taking an IP from my routers DHCP server. Like I said before, I thought that the minis only took an internal IP from the HR54....I guess this is not the case. I held the select button on the remote down for 10 seconds and brought up the network screen....I see it has both an internal IP AND a local LAN ip from my network. Interesting.

west99999: Can be the router, I've tried a total of 4 and this has occurred with all of them. I'm not really doing anything special with the router settings (setting up wifi security is about it)

My solution:

I changed the DHCP network settings to 192.168.100.x instead of 192.168.1.x. Rebooted the main box and everything is working again. I still have no idea what is happening to cause it to go into this state.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

WilsonCat said:


> west99999: Can be the router, I've tried a total of 4 and this has occurred with all of them. I'm not really doing anything special with the router settings (setting up wifi security is about it)
> 
> My solution:
> 
> I changed the DHCP network settings to 192.168.100.x instead of 192.168.1.x. Rebooted the main box and everything is working again. I still have no idea what is happening to cause it to go into this state.


Could be a bad genie. Get it swapped if it still does it then its something with your network, if not the router then your ISP.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

I suspect you are doing something with your router settings that is causing the router to reject the "link local" addresses. What are you actually doing to setup wifi security?


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

west99999 said:


> Could be a bad genie. Get it swapped if it still does it then its something with your network, if not the router then your ISP.


Can't be, they already swapped it out when the problem first occurred. 4 different routers (Netgear V6300v2, Asus R3200, D-Link 868L (from ISP) and now Linksys MU-MIMO AC1900) all had same issue, ISP is the only High Speed internet provider in the area and I have neighbors and friends with same setup as me that have no issues.



texasbrit said:


> I suspect you are doing something with your router settings that is causing the router to reject the "link local" addresses. What are you actually doing to setup wifi security?


The Minis aren't rejecting the Link Local Addresses...they are taking both my local and Link local addresses...see pics:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Yes but what else is connected the to the internet in your house? And i wonder if the modem is also a router and causing something weird. Yeah that last idea is a stretch but hey, think we are at stretching for ideas by now. 

Truthfully though first thing I'd do has been suggested many times. Get rid or all the extra settings you created in your router. Let it donit all auto and get your self a DIRECTV Wired Broadband Internet Connection Kit and hook it up so that the internet isn't passing through the hr54 to get to the minis. I have a feeling something in your home network is making the genie unhappy being used as a gateway to the minis.


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## WilsonCat (Jul 27, 2016)

inkahauts said:


> Yes but what else is connected the to the internet in your house? And i wonder if the modem is also a router and causing something weird. Yeah that last idea is a stretch but hey, think we are at stretching for ideas by now.
> 
> Truthfully though first thing I'd do has been suggested many times. Get rid or all the extra settings you created in your router. Let it donit all auto and get your self a DIRECTV Wired Broadband Internet Connection Kit and hook it up so that the internet isn't passing through the hr54 to get to the minis. I have a feeling something in your home network is making the genie unhappy being used as a gateway to the minis.


Ok, the modem is not a router...its an Arris TM822. Plain old DOCSIS 3.0 modem.

In my post above I stated all I did to the new router was set up WIFI security. All other settings are stock as they come out of the box. I am well versed in networks (it's what I do for a living). The only thing that I usually do to a router is shut off all the BS Bloatware they put in these newer routers or install DDWRT so I have more control over what the device can do. I didn't do that with this one.

As far as the Wired Broadband Internet Connection kit, is this something I call DTV for or do I have to purchase this on my own. Will they just send it to me or do they need to dispatch a tech?

Thanks again for all the replies but if this thing sh*ts the bed again, I'm gonna tell them to come take their equipment and cut the cord altogether. I shouldn't be going though all this nonsense. The other solution is to just disconnect the unit from the network but that is not an option that I will accept (nor should I have to).


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

You have every right to disconnect your service all together but understand that this is not an issue with the Directv gear. It is obvious that when you connect to the internet it causes the problem so it is your internet thats the issue.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Yes, I posted that this happens if the router prevents messages destined for the minis getting through because their link local addresses cause the router to dump the mesdsages or route them to the wrong place.As west99999 says, there's something wrong with your network setup that is causing this.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Any chance you can disconnect everything g for your network except the DIRECTV gear. It's entirely possible it's something else conflicting. 

I've see some weird MAC address stuff to a Few times. You might want to look at the stamped and software reports and router reported MAC addresss and see if they all line up. Although I have never seen that cause a problem... And That's another big shot in the dark but...


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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

No intention here in hijacking this thread. I have a similar issue with at least one of the four mini genies connected to my system. Each morning when I get up and turn on the TV in the Master Bedroom, I am greeted with a "This location is not Authorized". After numerous trial and error attempts to resolve the issue, I found that the easiest way to fix the problem is to unplug and replug the BB Deca. The message displayed on the screen after power is reestablished with the DECA is Connecting.......Server not Found Try Again.......After waiting for about 30 seconds, the system is functioning. Given that the equipment room is far removed from the Master, I installed a TP-Link plug so I could do the on/off switching from the convenience of the bed. Any suggestions on how I might get rid of this nag? What other info should I gather to help others help me diagnose? TIA


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Disconnect the DECA altogether for a day or two and see the results. This seems an issue with your router. The mini should not loose connection to the server if you disconnect from the internet.


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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

Tried your suggestion and so far no success. I'll let things run overnight to see if I get a different result in the morning. When I disconnect from the internet, none of the four mini genies (trying three at a time) can make any connection to the main genie server. Resetting the mini genies and the main genie does not rectify the problem. 
As soon as I reconnect the DECA, I'm connected with all of the mini genies (limited to 3 at a time) to the main genie server within 30 seconds. 

My system is fairly complex with 2 SWM 16's and 13 TV's. I have spent a boat load of hours tweaking the connections to the four, 4 way splitters to the point where I can now connect with any TV Via Whole Home.

I have a genie, 4 mini genies, 4 H24 DVR's and 4 H25 receivers.

I do not believe the mini genies can connect to the main genie server without the DECA. So far the blue screen with "Try Again" is all I see. I'll leave the DECA disconnected overnight and see if the status changes.


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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

Update this morning. No reception on the mini genies. Have the same "Unable to Connect and Try Again" screen. I am able to get reception on the Main Genie (HR54/500), the HR24's and the H25 receivers. 

Connection to the genie clients is only possible by Re-powering the DECA.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

This would then leads me to believe that the genie may be on one switch and the minis on the other switch and your router is the one bridging the two, which is not a good configuration. Both the genie and minis should be on the same switch and even better if that are on the same side of the switch. 


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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

You are correct about the main genie and the mini genie split!

After numerous trial and error combinations, I found that splitting the mini genies and the main genie between one SWM and the other SWM led to the greatest stability. This may be due to combined distances that I am running on some of the 4 port switches. As I recall, I also ran into some problems with over-loaded tuners on some of my configuration attempts.

Are there any further drawbacks in splitting the genies?

Also since I have 4 mini genies, 1 main genie and a 4 port switch, can I add a two way splitter to one of the 4 port switches to keep all 5 on the same side of the same SWM?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

mauigolfer said:


> You are correct about the main genie and the mini genie split!
> 
> Also since I have 4 mini genies, 1 main genie and a 4 port switch, can I add a two way splitter to one of the 4 port switches to keep all 5 on the same side of the same SWM?


 yes, this would be your best configuration.

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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for your help. Now I am having difficulty playing back content from the HR24's that have been moved to the other SWM. I'll try to test out my issues and narrow down the problems before seeking further assistance. 
Thanks again.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

How are you bridging the two switches? Using Broadband DECAs on both?


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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

peds48 said:


> How are you bridging the two switches? Using Broadband DECAs on both?
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


Yes. BB DECA into each SWM. Ill try to put a dtagram together of my configuration and post it.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

You might want to look into getting a NAS diaplexer. For info on this, look on the more than one SWM16 white paper on solid signal.com


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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

I originally posted iformation about my planned installation here. New Home Install 12 TV's 

After consulting with Solid Signal Personnel, I was discouraged from using the NAS diplexer approach. Instead they recommended that I insert DECA's in the two separate SWMs. I originally built a board using the NAS diplexers and subsequently scrapped that in favor of the approach using two DECA's. Photos of my boards are actually shown in the thread reference above. Edit to add: Looks like photos are no longer there. I'll dig them up and repost later.

Original Board










New Board










Note.....I dumped the Sonora Amp/Filter in the final.

Yesterday and last night I finally came up with the right combination of connections where I was able to achieve full Whole Home network functionality with all receivers and including the placement of all genie and mini genie clients on the same side of the same SWM. I will append a diagram to this post of my functioning connections later in the day. Hopefully this will last!


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Not sure why they discouraged you from the NAS approach. I've used it in both dual SWiM-16 and now a 16 and a 13 LNB combination with the internet connection into a HR34.


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## mauigolfer (Aug 2, 2011)

peds48 said:


> You might want to look into getting a NAS diaplexer. For info on this, look on the more than one SWM16 white paper on solid signal.com
> 
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk





dennisj00 said:


> Not sure why they discouraged you from the NAS approach. I've used it in both dual SWiM-16 and now a 16 and a 13 LNB combination with the internet connection into a HR34.


Don't know why I was discouraged either. Probably had a rookie CS rep shooting from the hip. My new setup described above had problems yesterday. I quickly did a NAS setup (my board looks like a zoo) and ran through all TV's and tested the Whole Home functionality and On Demand service. Looks like this one will work. I'll report back if I suffer a fail in the next few days. Thanks again everyone for the help.


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## TVCommander (May 22, 2007)

Without seeing a positive solution, I am raising this thread from the near dead since I have had the identical situation over the same time frame as the original poster, including 4+ visits by different DTV techs (who all debunked the previous techs suggested solutions). So, I too, have found the only way to have a solid 'longterm' solution is to disconnect from the home network and internet, both wirelessly and wired. My configuration is an HR54-700 with six C51 minis connected via coax only, no wireless. (I know I can only use 3 at a time). We currently have the HR54 connected to a luxul router that then connects to a Time Warner (now Spectrum) Arris cable modem TG1672. It doesn't appear that the make/model of the router factors into the challenge, but that the router is taking over the control of the signal distribution to/from the minis. I've seen many other threads here and on other boards with the same situation with lots of comments about what others have done wrong, but no definitive successful solutions. If the action would happen on a regular timetable it would help looking for an answer. But, as others have mentioned, totally random interruptions ranging from a couple of hours to several days apart really makes this a head scratcher. My next test will be to do a home run wired direct connect from the HR54 to the TWC modem/router to eliminate as many sidetracking possibilities as I can. Also, this is a new home construction with professionally installed AV and low voltage wiring. (Of course, TWC suggested just going with their cable. Imagine that.) So, any networking gurus have that, "Oh, you just need to do this," answer?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

TVCommander said:


> My configuration is an HR54-700 with six C51 minis connected via coax only, no wireless. (I know I can only use 3 at a time). We currently have the HR54 connected to a luxul router that then connects to a Time Warner (now Spectrum) Arris cable modem TG1672.


The TG1612 is not a router but actually a gateway (there is a difference). While is ok to have a router connected to another router, one must make sure that the first router is set up appropriately and this is where more folks fail.

My suggestion is to remove the Luxus router and connect the DIRECTV Genie directly to the Spectrum gateway and see if there are any failures. If this set up works correctly then you need to make sure that the TW router is set to bridge mouse correctly and go from there.

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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

TVCommander said:


> Without seeing a positive solution, I am raising this thread from the near dead since I have had the identical situation over the same time frame as the original poster, including 4+ visits by different DTV techs (who all debunked the previous techs suggested solutions). So, I too, have found the only way to have a solid 'longterm' solution is to disconnect from the home network and internet, both wirelessly and wired. My configuration is an HR54-700 with six C51 minis connected via coax only, no wireless. (I know I can only use 3 at a time). We currently have the HR54 connected to a luxul router that then connects to a Time Warner (now Spectrum) Arris cable modem TG1672. It doesn't appear that the make/model of the router factors into the challenge, but that the router is taking over the control of the signal distribution to/from the minis. I've seen many other threads here and on other boards with the same situation with lots of comments about what others have done wrong, but no definitive successful solutions. If the action would happen on a regular timetable it would help looking for an answer. But, as others have mentioned, totally random interruptions ranging from a couple of hours to several days apart really makes this a head scratcher. My next test will be to do a home run wired direct connect from the HR54 to the TWC modem/router to eliminate as many sidetracking possibilities as I can. Also, this is a new home construction with professionally installed AV and low voltage wiring. (Of course, TWC suggested just going with their cable. Imagine that.) So, any networking gurus have that, "Oh, you just need to do this," answer?


Yeah bypass everything else and go direct to the modem. If it works great then you have narrowed down the issue to the router. If not then I wonder if your modem is causing weird issues or if it's because of spectrums DNS. I've had major bizarre issues with computers lately and have done all kinds of trouble shooting. Charter insisted it was NOT them in any way. And it was more than just slow internet and hangs loading pages. I still replaced the modem and still had issues. Low and behold going to open DNS fixed all my issues. Should it be possible this is your issue? No. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be as I found out.


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