# How many care about HD locals?



## auburn2 (Sep 8, 2005)

just soliciting opinons here. With the OTA tuner available I could care less if Dish ever decides to carry my locals in HD, and to be honest I would rather they DIDN'T. The dish HD locals will never match OTA locals in PQ (assuming you have Line of sight to the Tx antenna) , and they could use that bandwidth for improving PQ on other HD stations instead.

What do the rest of you think?


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## omeletpants (Mar 11, 2006)

auburn2 said:


> just soliciting opinons here. With the OTA tuner available I could care less if Dish ever decides to carry my locals in HD, and to be honest I would rather they DIDN'T. The dish HD locals will never match OTA locals in PQ (assuming you have Line of sight to the Tx antenna) , and they could use that bandwidth for improving PQ on other HD stations instead.
> 
> What do the rest of you think?


In some areas the locals are unreliable. I get a lot of wind here and that sometimes screws up reception. Don't be offended but the phrase is "I couldn't care less", not "I could care less".


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

auburn2 said:


> What do the rest of you think?


Bring on the HD Lil's! I definitely want them. The OTA is great but reception is very patchy...sometimes great, and other times, for no apparent reason, the channel disappears (and this is 20 miles from the towers).

I prefer the HD content on major networks as opposed to the Voom channels...there are maybe 2 that I sometimes watch, the rest are of little value to me...


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## PeggyD (Apr 6, 2006)

Locals in HD is why we just upgraded to a 622. We've had the SD locals package since it was available.

We can't get network OTA locals. ABC, CBS & NBC are about 22 miles away, but there is a 900 ft. hill about 3-4 miles from us, right in the line of site & all the tall buildings in downtown Seattle are in the way closer to the transmitters. The FOX transmitter is about 35 miles away & even an analog signal is iffy. The only OTAs we can get are a couple of shopping channels & PAX since those transmitters are up in the Cascade foothills & less than 7 miles away.


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## davidxlai (Jan 21, 2006)

Are you kidding me? The reason I got 622 is because sometime this quarter E* will carry local HD in the San Francisco market. I live among the rolling hills in coastal California and I cannot get local OTA HD.



auburn2 said:


> just soliciting opinons here. With the OTA tuner available I could care less if Dish ever decides to carry my locals in HD, and to be honest I would rather they DIDN'T. The dish HD locals will never match OTA locals in PQ (assuming you have Line of sight to the Tx antenna) , and they could use that bandwidth for improving PQ on other HD stations instead.
> 
> What do the rest of you think?


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## abricko (Mar 1, 2006)

I'd prefer more national HD programs, (HD) LILs are a waste of space (for me)... I have an antenna on my roof and I get great reception... it's also nice having 3 tuners!


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

Dish is the only way I can receive locals - HD or SD. Even with a 50 foot tower the OTA reception here is poor. Cable added two network feeds last year but still doesn't have the other two. I'm getting really tired of people saying "oh, just get them OTA". For many of us that' just not possible.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I get all my locals just fine, and most are in HD as well as some extra digital substations.

But if I ever dive into the DVR, having HD locals via satellite would give me more flexibility for recording/watching programs since I'd be able to record an HD local via OTA or via satellite and watch another on the other tuner.


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## redbird (May 9, 2005)

HDMe said it perfectly for me. But, I would trade some HD locals for more national HD channels.


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## Powie (Apr 9, 2006)

I'm not able to get locals in HD without getting a big antanae, and then getting permission from my HOA to mount it. And I don't really want an ugly antanae mounted to my townhouse, so yes I want/need locals via dish. A major part of me updating to the 622 from my 6 month old 942.


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## skassan (Jan 10, 2004)

I want HD LIL because there's only one OTA tuner. With LIL, I can record conflicting network programming.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

I am all for HD nationals, Just so I can get network HD. My socalled local do not all send out HD or are still low power


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Powie said:


> I'm not able to get locals in HD without getting a big antanae, and then getting permission from my HOA to mount it. And I don't really want an ugly antanae mounted to my townhouse, so yes I want/need locals via dish. A major part of me updating to the 622 from my 6 month old 942.


If they ever get the tower up, you'll be able to get HD with a coathanger. I live in an area where ABC is digital no HD transmitter and Fox is analog. To retrieve those stations in HD, I use an antenna to pickup Kansas City stations. Satellite for OTA, other than its OTA tuner doesn't help me.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

auburn2, I'm looking forward to HD Locals VIA satellite. Currently with the OTA, I can only record one channel at the same time. Usually at prime time there are other programs that I desire to record. With Satellite HD Locals I can record up to three networks programs at the same time.


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## zeekle (Jun 18, 2005)

i am looking forward to HD locals myself. OTA may be better but its not 100% where I live (NBC is no go for me at all) 

It will be interesting to me to see the difference in PQ over OTA on the channels I get most fo the time.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Having HD locals would allow me to record two network programs in HD, which would be great. Sure, I'd like StarzHD, Cinemax HD, or MHD, but locals would be more useful to me than say, HD networks devoted to Fashion, Extreme sports, Art, or Kung Fu.


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## wingnut1 (Nov 10, 2005)

I don't think my market will get HD locals so I will have to continue to use OTA. It would be nice to have satelitte hd locals so that I could record conflicting HD Network shows that I like to watch. I can do this to some extent by recording one set on my 942 the other on my 622. It would probably be better to have more national channels in HD. USA, FX, SciFi, TBS, etc... I would trade off most of the VOOM channels to get these in HD.


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## djmav (Apr 14, 2005)

I care. I hope they get the SF HD locals soon.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

I am looking forward to HD locals, just for the fact that I'll be able to record up to 3 network shows in HD at once. However, the Sat provided HD locals will not be the ones I primarily view. Since I get all my locals in HD via OTA I will continue to record all shows possible via OTA since the picture quality will be better.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

djmav said:


> I care. I hope they get the SF HD locals soon.


San Francisco get HD locals Dish Care?? If Dish Cared San Francisco would have been one of the first to get HD local since the bay area is the leader in HD as far a number of household ownership of DH Tv is concern. But dish care about the bay area I doubt it.


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## datwell (Jan 26, 2005)

I certainly care - my OTA is problematic at best as I am on the wrong side of a large hill, the trees are now leafing out in a hurry and on top of everything else, a little wind whips my CM-4228 around and ensures no reception at all!

---Doug


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

From the responses, it looks like the answer is basically the same as if one would've asked the same question about the sat co's adding a persons SD locals a number of years ago.

Oh sure it's hard getting the analog SD channels OTA without some issues. But in many cases it can (could've) be done if a person wants to go to that extreme. Not like the SD locals on the sats have ever been "perfect". It shouldnt be so hard with OTA HD locals, because of the "all or nothing" nature of the PQ. But as we see here, theres still no shortage of people who either dont wanna bother with OTA antennas or even if they try, they still have problems. 

Bottomline is they're coming to everyone eventually so even if a person doesnt like it, they might as well just deal with it. And even use it to their "advantage", as others have pointed out, when it comes to having extra recording options when using an HD DVR.

Even if the sat PQ isnt as good as OTA, isnt recording the softer sat version still better than recording the SD version when theres programming conflicts? Or do you never have those?


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## Skyburn (Nov 30, 2004)

Powie: No HOA in the USA can stop you from putting an antenna on your townhouse, and you don't need their permission - that's federal law. Now, whether you want an ugly antenna on your townhouse, that's a different issue 

I live north of Denver, CO, and given that Denver is one of the last, if not THE last major metro market to have all of the major networks broadcasting full power digital since there are lawsuits upon more lawsuits stopping the stations from erecting a tower near Denver, the only reliable way I can get HD Locals is going to be through Dish. This, possibly until 2009 when they have to comply with the FCC's mandates.

I'd also echo what others have said -- sometimes I might want to record 3 things at once, and that might entail recording one show from OTA (I do get a couple of channels just fine from Denver) and 2 other local HD shows via the sat.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

datwell said:


> ... my OTA is problematic at best as I am on the wrong side of a large hill, the trees are now leafing out in a hurry and on top of everything else, a little wind whips my CM-4228 around and ensures no reception at all!


Doug,

I'm north of The District in Rockville, MD. ~16 miles to the digital transmitters and I have a Rotor driven fairly directional Winegard Antenna for OTA. Of the four network channels we get CH 5 and 9 pretty well during the winter. During the summer, presumably due to the leaves we get no OTA digital Chanells reliably.

Sending E-mails and calling gets you nothing - my neighbors all suffer the same poor OTA digital, this some a5-18 miles from the Whitehouse. 

This is the reason we are giving up on our 942 for the 622. LOCALS!


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Although I can receive all of the local OTA HD signals with no problems and I have multiple HD tuners, I would really like the flexibility to record two Network signals on the 622 at the same time. One OTA and one Dish. The networks are getting more competitive in putting good shows up against each other. Heist/Lost etc. At the same time, I am having to carefully manage my free disk space on the 622. I could really use the USB external drive option. 

..Doyle


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## zeekle (Jun 18, 2005)

DP1 said:


> From the responses, it looks like the answer is basically the same as if one would've asked the same question about the sat co's adding a persons SD locals a number of years ago.
> 
> Oh sure it's hard getting the analog SD channels OTA without some issues. But in many cases it can (could've) be done if a person wants to go to that extreme. Not like the SD locals on the sats have ever been "perfect". It shouldnt be so hard with OTA HD locals, because of the "all or nothing" nature of the PQ. But as we see here, theres still no shortage of people who either dont wanna bother with OTA antennas or even if they try, they still have problems.
> 
> ...


I agree I could get them most likely if I wanted to go to the extreme but I personally rather get the ones I can get OTA with my current setup and get the rest over the Sat even if they dont look quite as good as they would if I put a powered radar dish on my roof and piss off my neighbors.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

I only get 2 OTA networks Fox and NBC, so yes I can't wait for the rest to be offered by Dish, I will still keep my OTA, because I love the fact that I have 3 tuner. 

I got my 622 in anticipation for the SF Locals to be available soon.

Dish Network if you read these forum.....PLEASE UPLOAD SAN FRANCISCO LOCALS BEFORE JUNE 9 WHEN THE SOCCER WORLDCUP STARTS. I do not get ABC on my OTA.

So my answer is YES I want HD Locals. 

The better answer would be to have nationals HD Networks and not local, so we can have more HD programming available, But we all know that is not going to happen any time soon.


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## Squiglee (Jan 20, 2004)

Hey there must be a lot of us that get NO OTA at all. I live in western Maine in the mountains. The closest city is Portland, Maine about 100 miles away. 

I got the 622 so that eventually I can HD networks besides CBS.


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## UTFAN (Nov 12, 2005)

auburn2 said:


> just soliciting opinons here. With the OTA tuner available I could care less if Dish ever decides to carry my locals in HD, and to be honest I would rather they DIDN'T. The dish HD locals will never match OTA locals in PQ (assuming you have Line of sight to the Tx antenna) , and they could use that bandwidth for improving PQ on other HD stations instead.
> 
> What do the rest of you think?


The Denver area stations have been fighting with a small group of local yahoos so they build a new tower on Lookout Mtn for full power Digital/HD signals.

This group has so far kept them from doing so. So the stations are broadcasting at low power and a couple of the stations's signals are just too weak when you live 18 miles from the source.

So on May 1, the installer fires up our new 622 and HD locals are definately in our package. We really have no choice. I agree, that an OTA signal is better than satellite. But only if you can get the OTA.

Here in our area, it's tyranny of the minority.


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## GeeWhiz1 (Dec 6, 2005)

Frankly, I'm glad to see that I am not alone in not being able to get the SF locals in HD. Maybe the E* will realize how many of us can't get them due to hills or distance.

For those who want to just wait until the stations get around to bringing them to me, sorry. I got the HDTV for what it could do. I want those locals now, not 5 years from now.

Getting a better signal is why is I switched to DBS *mumble-de mumble* years ago.


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## Powie (Apr 9, 2006)

olgeezer said:


> If they ever get the tower up, you'll be able to get HD with a coathanger. I live in an area where ABC is digital no HD transmitter and Fox is analog. To retrieve those stations in HD, I use an antenna to pickup Kansas City stations. Satellite for OTA, other than its OTA tuner doesn't help me.


Yah it would be nice if they get that thing built, but it looks like Golden is fighting tough on this one. I bought one of those Zenith indoor HDTV ant's and it could only get Fox31, and it was flakey. And since I live on the other side of a hill, I doubt OTA will ever work w/o a good/large one mounted to the exterior (No attic/vaulted ceiling).


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

IF Dish had just added two ota tuners with the two sat tuners I wouldn't need the hd lils. But since they didn't and won't add two ota tuners , I will need the hd lils. I record up to 3 and 4 shows that go up against each other in primetime so I need the extra channels and I would perfer them in hd.


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## madbrain (Dec 10, 2004)

DP1 said:


> From the responses, it looks like the answer is basically the same as if one would've asked the same question about the sat co's adding a persons SD locals a number of years ago.
> 
> Oh sure it's hard getting the analog SD channels OTA without some issues. But in many cases it can (could've) be done if a person wants to go to that extreme. Not like the SD locals on the sats have ever been "perfect". It shouldnt be so hard with OTA HD locals, because of the "all or nothing" nature of the PQ. But as we see here, theres still no shortage of people who either dont wanna bother with OTA antennas or even if they try, they still have problems.
> 
> ...


I had a professional installer put my CM 4221 . I get all the SF Bay area digital locals perfectly, even living 45 miles away from the transmitters, or more for some. But all the analog channels are snowy and unwatchable, even from the same transmitter.

It still bothers me to no end that KQED, one of the local PBS channels, broadcasts all its new programming like current news on analog SD only, and uses the digital channels only for specific HD programming, or reruns of older shows on the SD digital channels . That really makes no sense for them to do that.


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## hankmack (Feb 8, 2006)

auburn2 said:


> just soliciting opinons here. With the OTA tuner available I could care less if Dish ever decides to carry my locals in HD, and to be honest I would rather they DIDN'T. The dish HD locals will never match OTA locals in PQ (assuming you have Line of sight to the Tx antenna) , and they could use that bandwidth for improving PQ on other HD stations instead.
> 
> What do the rest of you think?


Without Dish (Or DTV) we would NO HD or any other kind of TV reception. We live the the mountains.


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## Oompah (Feb 8, 2006)

Skyburn said:


> Powie: No HOA in the USA can stop you from putting an antenna on your townhouse, and you don't need their permission - that's federal law. Now, whether you want an ugly antenna on your townhouse, that's a different issue


I don't think that's true, Skyburn, unfortunately. It's true that states, cities and municipalities can't pass laws and ordinances prohibiting or restricting antennas because the federal government has preempted the laws governing radio and TV, but HOA's work with deed restrictions and covenants that are deemed to be "agreements between individuals voluntarily [ha!] entered into" and, unless things have changed in the last few years, aren't subject to the federal preemption. Hams have been fighting these for years, without much success the last I've heard.


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## dirtydan (Dec 15, 2004)

I have no OTA reception, therefore I want HD locals, but would also like HD nationals


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

OTARD prohibits most restrictions on dishes of less than a meter and OTA antennas - but the little caveat is that the antenna has to be on property you control - not common property - and the law doesn't force HOAs to allow you to drill holes, etc.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

I want it all. I have good reception on OTA HD locals, but I also want Dish HD locals so I can record two HD locals at the same time on one box if I choose. But I would sacrifice HD Locals for national HD networks (ABC, CBS, etc...). That seems far easier than having to provide all those locals. Local networks could just go away. But all three would be good too, and then you could just choose which you wanted.


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## Buffalo Bill (Apr 5, 2006)

Powie said:


> Yah it would be nice if they get that thing built, but it looks like Golden is fighting tough on this one. I bought one of those Zenith indoor HDTV ant's and it could only get Fox31, and it was flakey. And since I live on the other side of a hill, I doubt OTA will ever work w/o a good/large one mounted to the exterior (No attic/vaulted ceiling).


Yup. I live less than 10 miles from Golden and tried an indoor HD antenna and got bupkiss. So, we have no choice by to get the local HD through the 622. But, that's exactly why I bought (leased) the 622 as I really wanted the locals in HD.

Oh, and the post regarding that no HOA can prevent you from putting up an OTA antenna is completely false. When I moved into this subdivision I had to sign a contract that said I had read and will abide by all of the covenants that apply to the subdivision. Colorado HB 250 addressed this last year and said if the covenants explicitly state a restriction, the homeowner must abide by them. Fortunately, our covenants have no restrictions on antennas, but I know for a fact that many indeed do.


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## davidxlai (Jan 21, 2006)

According to their schedule, we in SF area should get local HD this quarter.



GeeWhiz1 said:


> Frankly, I'm glad to see that I am not alone in not being able to get the SF locals in HD. Maybe the E* will realize how many of us can't get them due to hills or distance.
> 
> For those who want to just wait until the stations get around to bringing them to me, sorry. I got the HDTV for what it could do. I want those locals now, not 5 years from now.
> 
> Getting a better signal is why is I switched to DBS *mumble-de mumble* years ago.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

I definitely want them. I live in an apartment and it was enough trouble getting 2 dishes installed for all the HD stuff. I am using a little indoor antenna for the OTA stuff and it is unreliable in my present location.


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