# NASCAR 2013 Discussion



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Let's go racing Boys and girls (just does not sound right!)

2013 brings a lot of interesting changes to NASCAR with the introduction of the Gen6 Car in Sprint Cup and Danica Patrick racing full time and becoming the first woman ever to win a sprint cup pole..


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Danika is just there for the ad revenue. She didnt finish a race higher than 17th place all last year. I used to watch Nascar live, but now I just record it, and skip the commercials (what seems like 50% of the program), and it seems if ANYTHING happens on the track (wreck, pass for first, good save), it happens during a commercial break. 

I was seriously considering not even watching this year, except right now, the lack of any other sports that interest me compelled me to tune in yet again.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Every time I see a story about Danica Patrick racing I think of how much I like Johanna Long.

Danica has won one race. Johanna won a championship. Johanna won the late model Snowball Derby the year after Kyle Busch won it. I'm looking forward to seeing Johanna improve over the years. And if good looks are needed for a woman to succeed in NASCAR Johanna has it covered. 







Congratulations to Danica on the pole ... considering the other two Stewart/Haus cars ended up in in the top 5 I would credit the organization on getting her to the front. Let's see how she does in the race. She has a good chance of improving on her 38th place finish. 

I wish the media would just leave her alone. She deserves some press for winning the pole, but she has received far too much press for simply being female. Let her prove herself as a NASCAR driver before we roll out the atta girls.

BTW: Daytona can be a lottery but it would be cool to see Mark Martin win.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Personally, I do expect to see in Victory circle this year but I don't believe it is going to be earned win but rather one which falls in her lap (race called due to rain, late accident which wipes out half the field, race leaders are forced to pit road with 2 to go (I believe this is how she won her only IRL race), etc.).

I saw a story the other day that if she were to win on Sunday that there could be an issue due to weight. As I understand it from the story, all the cars must weigh the same and weights are such are added/subtracted from the car depending on the car/driver weight. Nascar supposedly though does not weigh the drivers themselves and has a fixed weight of 140lbs in their calculation. Long story short, assuming Danica weighs under 140, she has an advantage..


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I do believe that the officials are on top of the weight of the cars and drivers combination so that all is the same as far as weight goes.
Danica does her best on the long and fast tracks. Her worst times are when there is bumping together and forcing her car into some place that is tight. She has a tendency to save the car and not wreck it rather than push the situation and go for the win.
All of this is a learning the differences in the cars she used to race that were totaled if you touched to these much bigger, heavier, bump-able cars that she is driving now.

For me, I would like to see her finish on the lead lap and finish better than where she started the race. Of course for this race that can not happen she she is starting on the pole.
I do remember one race where her and Tony led a lot of the race when they were teamed up and pushing each other and this might happen Sunday.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

fluffybear said:


> Personally, I do expect to see in Victory circle this year but I don't believe it is going to be earned win but rather one which falls in her lap (race called due to rain, late accident which wipes out half the field, race leaders are forced to pit road with 2 to go (I believe this is how she won her only IRL race), etc.).
> 
> I saw a story the other day that if she were to win on Sunday that there could be an issue due to weight. As I understand it from the story, all the cars must weigh the same and weights are such are added/subtracted from the car depending on the car/driver weight. Nascar supposedly though does not weigh the drivers themselves and has a fixed weight of 140lbs in their calculation. Long story short, assuming Danica weighs under 140, she has an advantage..


I looked this up and she and Mark Martin have this weight advantage. Here is a link to the explanation.
http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-me...er-weight-help-danica-patrick-at-daytona.html


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

fluffybear said:


> As I understand it from the story, all the cars must weigh the same and weights are such are added/subtracted from the car depending on the car/driver weight. Nascar supposedly though does not weigh the drivers themselves and has a fixed weight of 140lbs in their calculation. Long story short, assuming Danica weighs under 140, she has an advantage..


The 140lbs is the minimum weight NASCAR compensates for. The "fixed weight" is 3300 for the car and 180 for the driver. Drivers over 180 do not get to take weight off of the car ... drivers under 180 have to add weight to compensate ... down to the 140 pound level (a driver weighing 149 pounds or less adds 40 pounds to the car).

Perhaps it is an advantage, but it is an advantage that is fully within the NASCAR rules and an advantage that has been given to any driver under 140. This is not a Danica only advantage. It is simply the NASCAR rules.



jimmie57 said:


> I do remember one race where her and Tony led a lot of the race when they were teamed up and pushing each other and this might happen Sunday.


I thought the two car tandem was gone? It could end up being a pack race where (depending on accidents) a driver could get lucky and have a friendly driver behind them to push them ahead on the last lap. eg: Kirk Busch helping Ryan Newman to his 2008 Daytona 500 win (over Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch).

That is part of what makes Daytona a lottery. Avoiding the accidents and being in the right place at the right time with the right help.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

It is definitely going to be an interesting 2 days for sure. Nationwide starts in about a half an hour. It will be quite different with the much reduced horsepower of thse cars vs the new Gen 6 cars they run tomorrow.
I definitely like the Gen 6 car so far.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Every time I see a story about Danica Patrick racing I think of how much I like Johanna Long.
> 
> Danica has won one race. Johanna won a championship. Johanna won the late model Snowball Derby the year after Kyle Busch won it. I'm looking forward to seeing Johanna improve over the years. And if good looks are needed for a woman to succeed in NASCAR Johanna has it covered.
> ​
> ...


Did you see the new Female Crew Member in the Truck series ?
I think she is the first Female Crew Member.

Daytona and Talladega are both a lottery ticket for the speeds they run at both places.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jimmie57 said:


> Did you see the new Female Crew Member in the Truck series ?
> I think she is the first Female Crew Member.


Did she go over the wall for pit stops? That would be a first (according to the chatter on SiriusXM Nascar Radio channel 90 yesterday). As far as female crew member there have been many over the years. And there are plenty of NASCAR officials who are female - including ones that go over the wall.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Did she go over the wall for pit stops? That would be a first (according to the chatter on SiriusXM Nascar Radio channel 90 yesterday). As far as female crew member there have been many over the years. And there are plenty of NASCAR officials who are female - including ones that go over the wall.


She is a tire changer. her name is Christmas Abbott.

*Edit: Correction: *She *strives *to be a tire changer but is not there yet.

http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/02/20/...-female-NASCAR-pit-crew-member/7541361395447/


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## noahproblem (Aug 20, 2009)

I just watched the finish to the Nationwide race a short time ago - :eek2:

I know there's at least 2 critically injured fans and about 30 total - I hope they all come out of it OK.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I heard some of the coverage on NASCAR Radio right after the race. People very choked up about the incident. Kenny Wallace was on later in the evening. The TV footage showed the tire clear the fence but it was only a black object and ESPN did not identify it. ESPN kept their cameras on the racetrack and infield with only a shot of the engine and other tire ... which was caught by the fence ... sitting on the wrong side of the wall. The engine was leaking and had a small fire.

After seeing the YouTube footage and other coverage I am surprised that no one was killed instantly. The two in critical condition include a person with a serious head injury and a child.

The fence will be patched ... the Daytona 500 will run ... but NASCAR needs to once again work on keeping cars out of the fence. Injuring fans is not cool.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

James Long said:


> The fence will be patched ... the Daytona 500 will run ... but NASCAR needs to once again work on keeping cars out of the fence. Injuring fans is not cool.


The question becomes how? I don't believe there is a good way to do it and still allow the fans to remain close to the action.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

James Long said:


> Perhaps it is an advantage, but it is an advantage that is fully within the NASCAR rules and an advantage that has been given to any driver under 140. This is not a Danica only advantage. It is simply the NASCAR rules.


However, those rules were written with MEN in mind not females who typically weigh considerably less than men. I have seem some stories which list Danica's weight to be around 100 pounds while the average weight of a male driver is 175 pounds. 
If Danica is going to win a race in this series then I would prefer to see her win it on a even playing scale and not with those within NASCAR, the media, and the fans saying she had some kind of advantage.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

fluffybear said:


> The question becomes how? I don't believe there is a good way to do it and still allow the fans to remain close to the action.


That is the challenge. NASCAR will figure it out. One thing for sure ... they are not the kind of sport that sits back and says "accidents will happen" and does not look at preventing or mitigating the next one.



fluffybear said:


> However, those rules were written with MEN in mind not females who typically weigh considerably less than men.


The intent of the rule was not to give women an advantage. Changing the rule to penalize a woman seems to be unfair. If weight was an issue they should have done something for Mark Martin. (BTW: Brad weighs 155, Joey weighs 140.)



> If Danica is going to win a race in this series then I would prefer to see her win it on a even playing scale and not with those within NASCAR, the media, and the fans saying she had some kind of advantage.


Is it even to ask a 125 pound man like Mark Martin to muscle a 3300 pound race car around the track that was built to be handled by a 140-180 pound driver? Perhaps the smaller drivers should get power steering to level the playing field. Perhaps Michael Waltrip should get a lighter car since he weighs in at 210? Or Ryan Newman at 207?

Rewriting the rules for one popular/infamous driver is wrong.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

James Long said:


> The fence will be patched ... the Daytona 500 will run ... but NASCAR needs to once again work on keeping cars out of the fence. Injuring fans is not cool.


Get rid of restrictor plates so all the cars arent bunched up togetherfor the duration of every race and they would eliminate this absurd "bump drafting" BS. OK, so a car going 225 might do an air flip and put the driver at risk. That is on the driver. They have the safety equipment. The fans do not. I thought racing was about who is the fastest and best, not who can knock the other cars into a wall at the end of the race.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Davenlr said:


> Get rid of restrictor plates so all the cars arent bunched up togetherfor the duration of every race and they would eliminate this absurd "bump drafting" BS. OK, so a car going 225 might do an air flip and put the driver at risk. That is on the driver. They have the safety equipment. The fans do not. I thought racing was about who is the fastest and best, not who can knock the other cars into a wall at the end of the race.


If they would take away the restrictor plates and reduce the size of the engines they could get them back down to about 180 mph where I don't think they would fly like we are seeing lately.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> If they would take away the restrictor plates and reduce the size of the engines they could get them back down to about 180 mph where I don't think they would fly like we are seeing lately.


Yes, but any method they use to create a false max speed limit is going to have the same results, all the cars are going to bunch up, and bump draft to get a few extra HP. Only allowing the cars to go as fast as the engine/body builders can, will results in some cars taking off out front while lesser cars will fall behind... hence the whole field wont be bunched up into a 1/4 mile on a 2 1/2 mile track.

For races like Daytona, Im all in favor of making them go to a local dealer of the manufacturer they represent, pick a car off the lot, install the safety equipment, and go for it. Race.

Id like to see some vets out there. V8 power, vs the Toyota's 6 banger. Hmmm.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

James Long said:


> The intent of the rule was not to give women an advantage. Changing the rule to penalize a woman seems to be unfair. If weight was an issue they should have done something for Mark Martin. (BTW: Brad weighs 155, Joey weighs 140.)
> 
> Is it even to ask a 125 pound man like Mark Martin to muscle a 3300 pound race car around the track that was built to be handled by a 140-180 pound driver? Perhaps the smaller drivers should get power steering to level the playing field. Perhaps Michael Waltrip should get a lighter car since he weighs in at 210? Or Ryan Newman at 207?
> 
> Rewriting the rules for one popular/infamous driver is wrong.


Never said the rule was written to give women an advantage but rather the rule was written with men in mind. I doubt anyone at the time ever thought a woman would some day be behind the wheel.

As I understand the rule, for every 10 pound segment the driver weighs under 180, they must add 10 pounds to the car (ie drivers weighs 170-179, they need to add 10 pounds) and this goes on to 140 pounds. Mark Martin who weighs 135 must add 40 pounds to his car but has a 5 pound advantage by weighing 135. Danica on the other hand weighs 100 pounds and only has to add the same 40 pounds.

You seem to misunderstand that I am not taking sides but rather pointing out something which has been brought up already by other race teams.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Davenlr said:


> Get rid of restrictor plates so all the cars arent bunched up togetherfor the duration of every race and they would eliminate this absurd "bump drafting" BS. OK, so a car going 225 might do an air flip and put the driver at risk.


Is there a catch fence that can 100% guarantee stopping all parts of a car going 225? The crash Saturday was at an estimated 175. If cars go 225 and go airborne the fence won't do much.

I don't see how letting the cars go 225 will stop them from being together on the track. The cars are virtually the same except for team setup ... All the Hendricks engine cars would be bunched up. All the Toyotas would be bunched up. All the Fords would be bunched up. Only the individual setups and driver fear level would lead to unbunching (the same as it is today).



> I thought racing was about who is the fastest and best, not who can knock the other cars into a wall at the end of the race.


It is ... and you can be sure that all manufacturers will do their best to be fastest and best. Unrestricted you would see cars of all manufactures pushing 225 - and still bunched up - then wadded up - and hopefully not through the fence.



fluffybear said:


> Never said the rule was written to give women an advantage but rather the rule was written with men in mind. I doubt anyone at the time ever thought a woman would some day be behind the wheel.


At what time? There were four female NASCAR drivers in 1949. Janet Guthrie raced in 1976. Patty Moise became the first to lead a Busch series race in 1986. And with the Drive for Diversity program in 2004 it was obvious that NASCAR was pushing to add female drivers (and other unrepresented groups).

NASCAR should have had the female driver in mind for a decade or more. For weight to become an issue NOW seems to be a Danica related issue.



> You seem to misunderstand that I am not taking sides but rather pointing out something which has been brought up already by other race teams.


I'm sorry if you took my counter argument personally. I intended to counter the view expressed ... whether it be yours or the view of the competing race teams. If the other race teams think it is unfair that Danica weighs so little perhaps they can give Mark Martin a full time ride ... and tell Ryan Newman to lose some weight ... he's hurting his team.

Perhaps they need to adjust the weight adjustment and go another 40 pounds in each direction ... let Ryan drive a lighter car since he weighs more. There are other drivers over 180 who would benefit from a lighter car.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

James Long said:


> perhaps they can give Mark Martin a full time ride ...


Wasn't it Mark Martin's choice to race a limited schedule?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

fluffybear said:


> Wasn't it Mark Martin's choice to race a limited schedule?


He seems to be happy where he is ... of course that is ending this year and 2014 could be back to the rocking chair or more races. Time will tell.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Congratulations to Daytona 500 winner, Jimmie Johnson


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

fluffybear said:


> Congratulations to Daytona 500 winner,
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I was routing for


Spoiler



Danica Patrick


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> I was routing for Danica Patrick


I suspect many people were!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

She did well. Her fans should be happy. And she beat her boyfriend and fellow rookie of the year candidate.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Yeah, there's been a lot of coverage of Danica. But I also remember there being constant coverage of Junior - and he's won one race in how many years driving premium equipment?

That's not to denigrate Dale Jr. - just to put in some perspective. Right or wrong, he gets coverage because he's popular. Well, Danica is in that same boat.

And there HAVE been women crew members. You might remember Shawna Robinson from some years ago (ran the #49 for BAM Racing in what was then Nextel Cup for a couple of years). When BAM went belly up, she eventually got a part-time Truck gig and they had one race (in texas if memory serves) with an all-female over-the-wall crew. Shawna later said she wasn't fond of that "publicity stunt".


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## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

I find the "Freight Train" style races to be very boring. The only time a driver gets a little out of line is to get some air to cool the engine. I guess it's kind of exciting when a driver makes the mistake of getting to far out of line and gets shuffled back a dozen or more places, but that doesn't happen to often. Yesterday, I was far more interested in the pit stop times than any action, or lack there of, happening on the track.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

When they were strung out in a single file about 25 cars in length.... Well, THAT I found boring. You *at least* have to be 2-wide to have something interesting going on.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Congratulations


Spoiler



Carl Edwards


 on winning the Subway 400..


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Anyone having a problem with Raceview besides me ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Not a bad weekend for racing ... and it looks like the honeymoon is over for Ms Racer. 

They still have to figure out that "Drivers start your engines" thing.


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## dslram (Mar 10, 2013)

whos the favorite for Bristol??


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I think Kyle Bush or Tony Stewart will win at Bristol this weekend coming up.
Danica will either be many laps behind or wrecked before it is over.
I do like Danica and want her to do well but I just don't think she is the fighter necessary for a track like this.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

I doubt Stewart will win. SHR is probably the worst performer with the Gen 6 car of all the multi car teams.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

This is true, however, this is a half mile track, almost like a dirt track and that is Tony's kind of fun. I think this race will be more driver performance and less car performance than we have had to this point.


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## dslram (Mar 10, 2013)

I like Tony as well but this isnt his type of track and I would be very surprised if he won there, Kyle Busch is always tough at this track as is Jeff gordon

Im thinkin Brad may pull it off again.

I been to the nite race twice and and Im goin again in august!!


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## Neely8 (Mar 14, 2013)

dslram said:


> I like Tony as well but this isnt his type of track and I would be very surprised if he won there, Kyle Busch is always tough at this track as is Jeff gordon
> 
> Im thinkin Brad may pull it off again.
> 
> I been to the nite race twice and and Im goin again in august!!


If you can get there by Thursday be sure to go about 50 miles south of Bristol for the show at the best dirt track I've ever been to, Volunteer Speedway in Bulls Gap. You won't be disappointed.


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## dslram (Mar 10, 2013)

we will be there tuesday-------Ill have to look it up


always a good time there


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## BLWedge09 (Jan 6, 2007)

Anybody else seeing horrible PQ on Fox's race coverage today? I don't think it's a local issue...the commercials look fine. The race coverage looks like upconverted SD at best. Really fuzzy.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Its a shame Denny Hamlin was injured in the last lap crash. Looks like he will be out for awhile. I must have jinxed him because I chose him to win in my pool and my picks usually have something happen in the last few laps.

I sense Logano's peers are losing patience with him.


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## BLWedge09 (Jan 6, 2007)

peano said:


> Its a shame Denny Hamlin was injured in the last lap crash. Looks like he will be out for awhile. I must have jinxed him because I chose him to win in my pool and my picks usually have something happen in the last few laps.
> 
> I sense Logano's peers are losing patience with him.


Funny thing, I was actually hoping Logano would pull off the win right up until the moment he hit Hamlin. That was just stupid. I get that it's the last lap and all, but he didn't have to hit him that hard. He had plenty of room to work with. I've seen countless drivers in that situation wiggle a little and fall in behind the other car. He had ample room to do that.

Now, the Tony Stewart thing...I'm a fan of Tony, but he's just wrong this time. Logano was just doing what had to be done. He was barely staying behind Kyle heading to the line.

As a Junior fan, I was just glad to see him rocket through the field in the last 10 or so laps. A few minutes before, I thought his day was done.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Anyone who expected Joey and Denny to finish those last two laps was overly optimistic. The leaders wreck and the third car wins. And there's a fight. Shades of Daytona '79.

Denny was on Race Hub tonight (voice only). It is a shame that he got hurt and it appears that he will be out a few races (similar to Dale Jr and his concussion last year). We all like a good race ... and beating and banging door to door for the victory doesn't happen as often as it did in the past. But it isn't good when someone gets hurt and ruins their year. It was good hard racing. Both cars wrecked. If there were a safer barrier Denny would have been better off.

As far as Joey ... I have to agree with Roger Penske. Joey didn't do anything wrong to Denny or Smoke.


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## kikkenit2 (Oct 26, 2006)

Didn't Greg Moore die from a roof impact first crash in a similar location at Fontana? 
Much more violent wreck, but still a broken back isn't fun. 
I can't believe they don't pad those inside walls. At least they finally
got an exciting finish at that track. 

Usually that is the most boring track in America. Maybe the world. 
And if you sit up high where you can see good, the restrooms are 10 stories down a narrow metal scaffolding. 
I went one year when the temperature was 106. I turn down free tickets every year after that.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Speaking of not going back to attend a race, did you notice the race at Bristol the stands were half empty?

I think the local hotels charging $400 per night has something to do with it.

I have never been to a race, but have looked at prices a few times and the accomodation costs killed the idea for me every time.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

On Tony Stewart: Disclaimer - Tony's my favorite driver. I think what Tony was incensed about was that he had started passing Logano and Logano kept coming down. In other words, Logano's block was later than it should have been (Tony's splitter was passing Logano's bumper). He was literally running Stewart into the grass. Tony had to do more than just "check up" because he lost NINETEEN spots and THAT was what he was REALLY mad about. He went from 3rd to 22nd.

Seeing that bleep-riddled interview was priceless.

Bristol.. Man, I though the Cup race was a Busch race from the 1990s it was so empty. They CLAIM there were over 100,000 there but given that many whole section looked to be at 5-10% occupied, I can't see how that was true. they must be including giveaway tickets that never got used in that total.


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## dslram (Mar 10, 2013)

Lets not forget Tony always wants others to do what he says not what he does
'DEGA 2012-------He is one of the best blockers their is and when he doesnt get his way he is known to get upset------read the article about him in Australia last year midget racing, he was asked to leave the country and did so with a black eye.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

djlong said:


> I think what Tony was incensed about was that he had started passing Logano and Logano kept coming down. In other words, Logano's block was later than it should have been (Tony's splitter was passing Logano's bumper). He was literally running Stewart into the grass.


Joey's left side tires did not go below the white line (on the line, not below). There was room below the white line for Tony. Tony may have taken out an orange cone had he gone below the line, but he would not have been in the grass. Tony's right tires ran the white line as he approached the cone (at pit exit).








Image from the FOX Sports replay​
Kenseth a few cars back in the 20 followed the same line as Tony. Somehow Kenseth ended up 7th and Tony ended up 22nd?

I'm just glad that Tony didn't take out Joey and wad up the field. It probably would have been better for Denny (an accident on the restart would have changed the outcome of the race and prevented the last lap battle). But Tony is wrong about the block.

When I first saw the fight I thought Tony was mad at Joey for wrecking Denny. Perhaps that would have been an honorable thing to do. But it was just about a "block" where the blocking driver did not go on to the apron?

I like Tony Stewart, but the name calling and whiny complaints do not reflect well on a champion. Perhaps nothing said within 10 minutes of a wreck or on track incident should be held against a driver ... but upon further review, it was just as the announcers said. That's just racing.

BTW: In case anyone has forgotten, congrats to Kyle for winning the race and to Dale Jr for becoming the points leader.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Kenseth didn't have to check up the way Tony did.

And, yeah, I initially thought Tony was going after Logano because of the Hamlin wreck.

BTW - it's a penalty if Tony goes lower and hits that cone. You can go under the white line. You can't hit a cone.

In addition to Kyle Busch's performance being overlooked - how about the racing those last couple dozen laps? I've *never* seen *anything* at Fontana that good or that exciting.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

If Tony would have had the speed at the end to stay on Joey's bumper he could have went around as Joey and Denny started bumping. He just did not have the speed to keep up. All 3 of their cars are having problems with keeping up ever since the Daytona race.
I was / am disappointed that he whimpered about something he does all the time. He needs to look in the mirror and say those things to himself.


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## dslram (Mar 10, 2013)

I have to agree, this California race was the best that they ever had and thats how it should be-------3 and 4 wide the whole race.

It is unfortunate Hamlin wreck as I think if he didnt and they (logano & hamlin) were sideways crossing the line it would have been great.

I think with the current circumstances for Logano he will have a tough road ahead of him------and he shouldnt but that is the current mindset of the garage 

I am going to the Michigan June race this year and with the new surface I will be curious as what the speeds will be with the new car


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

dslram said:


> I have to agree, this California race was the best that they ever had and thats how it should be-------3 and 4 wide the whole race.
> 
> It is unfortunate Hamlin wreck as I think if he didnt and they (logano & hamlin) were sideways crossing the line it would have been great.
> 
> ...


I went to both MIS races last year (the first races with the new surface) and the racing sucked due to the single groove aero push. The speed increase wasn't noticeable because they were only less than 5% faster than previous.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

To me, Fontana was the 2nd most boring track on the circuit 2nd only to Michigan.

....until this year.

Maybe the new Gen 6 cars will make Michigan a treat to watch. I know I'll be tuned in to give it a chance.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I'm not a big fan of NASCAR & didn't watch this weeks coverage, but was this story mentioned at all during the race? http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-sports/motor-sports/headlines/20130414-death-at-texas-motor-speedway-nascar-race-man-dies-of-a-self-inflicted-injury-following-a-verbal-altercation.ece

Please, no gun debate.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> I'm not a big fan of NASCAR & didn't watch this weeks coverage, but was this story mentioned at all during the race? http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/more-sports/motor-sports/headlines/20130414-death-at-texas-motor-speedway-nascar-race-man-dies-of-a-self-inflicted-injury-following-a-verbal-altercation.ece
> 
> Please, no gun debate.


There is no need to mention a fan injury or death that is not connected to the race. The race coverage is coverage of *the race* ... not the venue, If someone climed the fence and jumped off the back of the grandstands it would receive equal coverage. Unless it affected the race (climbing the race track fence - which would likely draw a caution or red flag, or running out on the racetrack from the infield with the same results) it is not race coverage.

When did the shooting take place? When was the body discovered? After the race?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> There is no need to mention a fan injury or death that is not connected to the race. The race coverage is coverage of *the race* ... not the venue, If someone climed the fence and jumped off the back of the grandstands it would receive equal coverage. Unless it affected the race (climbing the race track fence - which would likely draw a caution or red flag, or running out on the racetrack from the infield with the same results) it is not race coverage.
> 
> When did the shooting take place? When was the body discovered? After the race?


You don't think a sport should mention a fan who shot himself in the infield during an altercation? I'd assume any sport would mention it and at least offer condolences. NASCAR events are weekend activities and it happened Friday night.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> You don't think a sport should mention a fan who shot himself in the infield during an altercation?


No, I don't. Unless it affected the race it is not race coverage.

There have been previous fan incidents that have been appropriately covered ... for example the fan that was killed by lightning last year. Coverage was appropriate as it raised the question of fan safety and the responsibility of NASCAR and the venue for protecting the fans.

Alcohol was a factor in this incident. Perhaps alcohol should not be permitted at NASCAR events? Or is your intent to raise the issue you cannot discuss here?


sigma1914 said:


> I'd assume any sport would mention it and at least offer condolences. NASCAR events are weekend activities and it happened Friday night.


Rereading the article you linked "The incident happened late in the Spring Cup race." That was Saturday Night.
Perhaps your facts are wrong on how the suicide occurred as well (during an altrication)?

No lap number is given. Late in the race could be late enough that word did not reach the broadcasters until after the end of the broadcast. And even if it did, how does a fan suicide at ANY sporting venue that does not affect the game bear mentioning?

Your assumption on other sports is likely incorrect as well. Unless it affects the game you're not likely to know about any suicide or injury at any sporting event.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Another article on the incident:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308916/Kirk-Franklin-death-Race-goer-commits-suicide-infield-NRA-sponsored-NASCAR-race-argument.html

The death occurred Saturday Night at about 10:30pm (I assume ET since the article claims the race started at 7:30pm).


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I'm not saying they should devote full coverage; just a quick blurb. I just asked if it received coverage. The article was poor and has been changed. It says...


> Fort Worth police have said a man who was camping in the infield died of a "self-inflicted injury" after getting into an argument with other campers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I do not believe that the Fox broadcasters knew of the death before the end of the race. Since the web articles were not published until Sunday I would not expect Fox to have the details Saturday night. It would have been inappropriate to mention the incident while the facts were still developing on Saturday night. And unless it affected the event ... caused a caution or red flag or involved someone known from NASCAR ... it did not bear mentioning. And I'd be surprised if a mention would have been made on any other sporting event coverage unless it distrupted the event or was a person connected to the sport.

The irony of a gun suicide at an NRA sponsored race will probably be the fodder for political sites for a couple of days before they move on to the next story. We're not a political site so let's get back to racing.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Thanks James. As I said, the original article was poorly written and had changed. Knowing it happened later in the race and not Friday night, clears up a lot.

I'm glad no one else was hurt and didn't affect the race. I tried asking friends who are NASCAR fans, but they were all at the track without Fox coverage and in the stands.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

During Nascar Victory Lane there was a cluster of emergency vehicle lights in the infield near the backstretch. Probably where the incident occured. But still too early to know what was going on and what to say. Perhaps it will be mentioned on Race Hub.


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

Lots of penalties lately.

I wonder if Keseloswki enjoys the taste of his own feet.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

So ... when a driver is suspended for a week he doesn't drive. But when a crew chief is suspended he can still do his job via Skype from a remote command center?

I would like to see this addressed by NASCAR ... I see it as the same as Joey's tweeting last year. When he first did it there was a certain amount of shock that he had a phone in his car during the race. There was no immediate penalty (even though a rule about non-analog devices was broken) but he was warned and later in the year he got nailed when NASCAR could prove he had a phone during the race. I'd like to see the same for the 20 team.

When NASCAR says a person is suspended for a race it should mean he can not participate in that race.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Jimmie Spencer on the Speed Channel said they should have any or all suspended persons on the site and all in a room together with no communications with the rest of the team members.
I agree with this.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

James Long said:


> When NASCAR says a person is suspended for a race it should mean he can not participate in that race.


and that is the way it should be. Allowing communication with the team from an off-site location is making a mockery of the rules and I personally believe should lead to original penalties being reinstated.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Is it any different from the baseball manager who's been ejected by an umpire "running" the team from the clubhouse?

Let's say I'm a crew chief. You've suspended me. I'm not getting paid for that race. I'm sitting at home. Are you saying you want me to willfully imprison myself in one of YOUR facilities?

Talking on the phone isn't the same as being there. The crew chief can't review footage of pit stops, can't see things for himself (to make judgement calls on things like tire wear) and, at best, could only talk to one person at a time. He certainly can't talk to other spotters the way he can at the track. ...and keep in mind there already *is* a qualified (if you're a top team) replacement sitting on the box who was most likely trained by the suspended chief.

Unless someone comes out with some kind of virtual reality setup that can *truly* make a mockery of a suspension, I say leave things as they are.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Sitting in a "Command Center" with several TVs, I-Pads, etc they can communicate almost the exact same as being there except that they are now sitting in an air conditioned room instead of on top of the pit box.

However it is achieved, the crew and driver should not have any contact with the person that is suspended.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

djlong said:


> Let's say I'm a crew chief. You've suspended me. I'm not getting paid for that race. I'm sitting at home. Are you saying you want me to willfully imprison myself in one of YOUR facilities?


Payment is up to the team, not NASCAR. Do you really believe Radcliff did not get paid for his work last weekend helping Kenseth win? Do you really believe that the 2 and 22 chiefs participating in the race via team radio from "the strawberry stand" did not get paid?

In my opinion it comes down to honesty. NASCAR asked these people to sit out the race. They didn't. As far as I am concerned, the suspended members have not served their penalties. (NASCAR disagrees.)



djlong said:


> The crew chief can't review footage of pit stops, can't see things for himself (to make judgement calls on things like tire wear) and, at best, could only talk to one person at a time. He certainly can't talk to other spotters the way he can at the track. ...and keep in mind there already *is* a qualified (if you're a top team) replacement sitting on the box who was most likely trained by the suspended chief.


They did the best they could ... the 2 and 22 teams used live video chat to show their suspended crew live video of the splitter wear and tire wear during practice. And they were close enough to the track that they COULD speak to the "crew chief" on the box and the spotters live and in real time.

The "trained" replacement is a good idea ... but this goes beyond a refresher/crash course in making race decisions then walking away to serve the penalty. The suspended members PARTICIPATED in the race with live coaching.



djlong said:


> Unless someone comes out with some kind of virtual reality setup that can *truly* make a mockery of a suspension, I say leave things as they are.


They are pretty close. Don't forget that those crew chiefs make most of their decisions from the top of the box with input from their crew. They are not the ones looking at the suspension directly and making a decision based on what they see. The only time a crew chief gets that close to the car during a race is if it is off the track behind pit wall.

Suspensions should be served by not participating.


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