# Poll for Dish PVR 721 Owners Only



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Please only vote on this question if you are a 721 owner. 

The question is overall, are you happy with your Dish PVR 721?

Feel free to explain your vote if you wish.


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

I have never really had any major problems with this receiver.


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## BobFly (Mar 10, 2003)

I have never had major problens either...i think they could be putting out software faster! even though dish is unreliable i think the 721 is worth the money!


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

I like the last option. There is always one in the crowd. I always wondered who are the bozos that pay to call a 900 # to vote and then choose undecided. 

!rolling


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## scoco (Dec 27, 2002)

I'm very happy with my 721. My biggest gripe is the timer resolution screen sucks, but I can live with while I wait for the software update. I'll be selling it though as soon as I can get my hands on a 921.


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## gwynnebaer (Jan 20, 2003)

It's a simple poll for a complicated question. Overall, I am happy with the 721. The complication lies in what I think it *could* be, which is a *fantastic* product, instead of just a good product.

I think most serious grievances that customers have with the unit could be eradicated with open communication between E* and the customers, in terms of planned enhancements, a delivery schedule for enhancements and bug fixes (rough dates are fine).

I have repeated this notion for some time now: Echostar, please open your mouth and tell us what to expect. That's all *I* want.

-matt


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

haven't had any problems with it and it has changed the way our whole family watches TV. Having 2 tuners is really important for the way we watch.


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## STXJim (Apr 22, 2002)

I'm still trying to figure out why you asked Question #3 when you asked 721 owners* (only)* this question. :shrug:
BTW...I love my 721 (even though it missed a timer last night).


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## EvanS (Mar 27, 2002)

I'm pretty much with Matt. Hoping that the next release "reliably" enhances the timer conflict screen and of course I generally dream of name-based recording.
But I really do like the 721, especially now that I got my RMA unit and there is no more pixelization or audio/video stutter.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

I think there should be another option on there that says "I am satisfied with the 721 AND I have used other PVRs extensively."

I assume this poll was put up in response to the other thread and my ongoing debate. The added option I'm speaking of is the entire point of what started the debate in the other thread. The people that are happy with the 721 right now have (I suspect) not used other PVRs extensively.

If you don't know what you are missing, then the 721 is a great product. But once you've eaten a good home cooked meal, Waffle House just doesn't seem so good anymore. But to a starving person (someone who's never had a PVR), Waffle House is ambrosia. 

So satisfaction (as I said in the other thread) is all relative in comparison to the competition. I would really like to know how many of those people who said they were satisfied have had and used other PVRs in the past.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

I LOVE mine!! :righton:


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

My 721 is great!


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## Pete38 (Oct 24, 2002)

Add my voice to the folks who have never had any problems with their 721. I replaced my 501 with a 721 about 7 months ago and it's been very reliable. I've never seen any of the widely discussed problems. I don't even need to reboot it very often.

Does it have all the features I would like? Is it perfect? Of course not -- what is? It just plain works when I want it to and I feel I've gotten my money's worth.

Pete


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## JosephF (Apr 23, 2002)

Overall I am happy with the performance of my 721. It has always recorded what I have asked it to, but I have had a recent instance where an auto-tune timer stopped firing for no apparent reason.

I experience about one reset a month, which is too high, but at the same time is lower than what I experience on my PCs.

Overall, I give it a B.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Inaba said:


> The people that are happy with the 721 right now have (I suspect) not used other PVRs extensively.


As I said in your other thread, I used Replay for two years before getting my 721 and I am still satisfied with my 721. So I think you're making a false assumption.

Dennis


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

Inaba, please take your one and only theme somewhere else. These threads are all read by the same people and we have heard you (again and again). We know how you feel about _your_ 721 and we respect that YOU are dissatisfied. That's unfortunate. It is not a good thing that a customer of any product should spend that kind of money and be so dissatified, yet feels stuck.

Between me an my buddies in the neighborhood, we have ALL the PVRs on the market (including some home made ones). Thus we are all pretty darned experienced with *everthing* you could possible buy or want. That is why none of us buy your simplistic, yet single minded assertion.

Maybe a fourth option, I am happy with my 721, it is not verything I want it to be right now and think it will get beter and better and think Inaba should sell his and end his misery so we can all move on to topics that interest us.


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## treiher (Oct 24, 2002)

I agree! A fourth option could also be, I am happy with the 721, but I will not remain so if Dish doesn't fix the bugs and add the promised features to it. 

I voted yes, because I am happy with it. I would hate to give it up. But . . . I would also hate for Dish to see those results and think everything is O.K. Everything is not O.K. I hesitate with this vote, and I find myself hesitating now everytime I want to post something positive about the 721 because it's my understanding that the people at Dish look at this board. The worst conclusion they could make from this is, "well we got some problems, but everyone is still pretty happy with it, so we're all o.k. here, and we'll get around to those upgrades when we can."


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

Yikes, that would be a problem.

The 'head in the sand" approach E* generally takes keeps 'em covered. Even after all these years, E* still will not acknowledge (to the customer) that the DP is systemically flawed. Despite a public suit against MS on the issue.

That is why there is some comfort factor having folks like Scott testing, and thus keeping a finger on the new code.

It is nice to know they have read the "Please add this . . ." threads. According to Scott, we are gonna get some of them, some day.


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## marshalk (Jun 9, 2002)

While given the three choices in the poll I picked "Yes I am", I was tempted to pick "don't own one" just for grins. Back on planet earth I would actually like to pick "sorta happy but wish some basic key features were there". Key features (I don't mean groovy additions but basic functionality) I think are needed are:

1) Name based recording
2) An EPG that is on 119 AND 110 for those who can not "see" 110, or at least make it so I do not have to reboot every three days to see the 2.5 day guide
3) A way to organize saved recordings into folders
4) A lot, a whole lot, less noisy. Use a drive with fluid dynamic bearings.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Much less hassle than my Dishplayer when it was my primary unit. Two tuners enabled me not to scream when CBS rescinded my waiver for CBS-W. Monster hard drive has meant I have never had an unwatched show deleted. Picture in Picture made watching two shows at the same time possible again (watching live sports and then jumping to another channel during commercials).

I kind of miss the web surfing that I could do on my DP, and hopefully they will turn on the interent feature soon. I can't get DSL at my house due to distance, but I have an extra wire run from my Cable/DSL router to my receiver for whenever they ARE ready to turn on this feature.

Now just turn on the weather already. My wife STILL hammers me over killing off her channel 201 when we switched. Weather Channel is becoming more like MTV lately and ignoring what got them where they are (I DON'T Want to watch StormStories just give me the forecast for the next five days already..... Since we CAN'T wait for our local on the 8's, this is all we have)


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

> My wife STILL hammers me over killing off her channel 201 when we switched


Tell your wife not to be too mad, from what I understand the News Channel on 201 (WebTV News) is going away this fall (as are the games)

Now as far as does the 721 have all the features you would like, I agree with you the 721 is missing some things that I would like to see the purpose of this poll is are you happy with your purchase.

I believe I can safely say that more 721's have been sold on my personaly recomendation then by any other means. When people if I like my 721 I answer them honestly and say I love my 721.

I am using this poll to reassure me personally that I am not nuts by recommending the 721. I am glad to see by the results that I am not steering people wrong.

Yes other PVRS may have more bells and whistles then the 721 but I feel the 721 was worth the money I paid for it.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

Randy, I am officially done with you. Your sole purpose in life is to start flame wars, and argue with me. I will not be responding to your posts any longer. You've demonstrated in the other thread that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and you have no ability to understand what a "fact" is.

Thank you for your time, and effort, but please drive through and let intelligent people come and go as they please, no one needs your fanaticism.

End of conversation.


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## guywall (Jan 8, 2003)

I've now had the 721 for about a week and a half. It's been great. Haven't had to restart or anything and love the PVR features (including the search feature & the PIP).

It has been hard adjusting to the remote, since I was very comfortable with the DP remote. 
The unit has been a little loud though. It doesn't sound like a fan, rather the unit (hard-drive?) itself. It seems to be on most of the time, even though I turn the power off....
I'll search the old threads for answers to this. Thanks.


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## kwd57 (Jul 31, 2002)

treiher said:


> I agree! A fourth option could also be, I am happy with the 721, but I will not remain so if Dish doesn't fix the bugs and add the promised features to it.
> 
> I voted yes, because I am happy with it. I would hate to give it up. But . . . I would also hate for Dish to see those results and think everything is O.K. Everything is not O.K. I hesitate with this vote, and I find myself hesitating now everytime I want to post something positive about the 721 because it's my understanding that the people at Dish look at this board. The worst conclusion they could make from this is, "well we got some problems, but everyone is still pretty happy with it, so we're all o.k. here, and we'll get around to those upgrades when we can."


I will have to agree with Treiher on this one.


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## MAllen (Dec 3, 2002)

I love my 2 721's!!!! I got the first one a year ago and liked it so much that I bought my 2nd one about 2 months ago!!!


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## LarryH (Jun 10, 2002)

marshalk said:


> ...I think are needed are:
> 
> 1) Name based recording
> 2) An EPG that is on 119 AND 110 for those who can not "see" 110, or at least make it so I do not have to reboot every three days to see the 2.5 day guide
> ...


I agree with marshalk. The 721 is very useable, but has the potential to be much more. I would like to add one more feature to his list:

5) Internet capabilities (email & web browsing)


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## bfennema (Jul 21, 2002)

The only internet capability I'm interested in is being able to bring up the guide over the net and (re)program it.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

I have a problem with the poll question itself. There is really a BIG area between being completely happy and being completely unhappy when rating a product or service. Also, "happy" is NOT a good term to use in a poll. It would have been much beter to ask "On a scale from 0 to 10 (10 being very satisfied), how satisfied are you with your DishPlayer?"

In one of my MBA statistics classes they told us NEVER to design a poll with only one question where the only answers were "yes" or "no".


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## Jordanis (Mar 18, 2003)

Well as someone with a marketing degree I have to totally agree with Bill R as to how a question should be phrased to obtain any validity.

However, since this poll is not being used as any statistical reference , and I am guessing just to get an overall feel, I'll answer, "YES" i'm happy with my 721.

Since we were asked to elaborate if we wanted... my only large complaint would be that when I purchased it, I was told that interactive TV was coming soon (within the next month or so) by the salesman. No he was not a Dish rep and well I guess I should have researched more on that note.. however It's still something I feel has been neglected even after researching all the info available on Open TV.

As for named based recordings, sorting features and other suggestions..adding most of the suggested features I've seen on the threads here at DBS , would make this an execeptional player and undoubtably the #1 receiver in the country. However the fact is that I've yet to see a receiver with ALL the bells and whistles possible... the 721 'could' be that system however I think it works just fine as it is, and is definatly a receiver someone should look into if they are buying one today.


Jordan
PS- I miss my spellchecker


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

I think mine is great, and am hoping to replace it with a 921...............................(when?)

:-jon


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I agree with Bill R and Jordanis. I did not know whether to click yes and no because I am kind of in between so clicked no. I am satisfied with everything but the hardware issues (tuner going bad) but perhaps if this one works and does not go bad or anything then I would think a bit different of the receiver.


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## Tony Trent (Nov 28, 2002)

Yes, Happy.


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## mjschuyler (Nov 2, 2002)

I voted yes. I have not had any problems in the last month or so. The unit was doing a reboot aboutevery wo weeks but I can not rememberwhen it last happened. I have never lost a recording and like the recording protect mode. My 501 and 508 are both rock steady.

I owned three Dishplayers two were very unstable and one was very stable. 

I also would like to see the new software updates. I like the channel 100 functions of the 501/508's. But the 721 is the best receiver I own.

Murray


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## Mike Russell (Feb 6, 2003)

I voted yes because I really like it. I also have a 501 hooked to the same tv and it works great but the 721 is much better. My complaint is the guide now, we had a great looking guide they gave us last December and they changed mine about a month ago.It has room for another line at the bottom,no red dot when you have a timer set,no difference in color in whats playing now and whats coming on next,small print thats hard to read even on my 55" tv.I haven't heard anyone else complain about this. Have I got the only guide like this?


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## mjschuyler (Nov 2, 2002)

Mike, my guide has not changed. This basic plain looking type of guide has been reported before. As I recall it is the original guide built in to the 721. When set up the receiver for the first time the guide is updated. I don't remember if there is a fix for it or if your 721 has to be replaced. There may be a way to reload the software. I'm sure someone will read this and give you the solution to the problem.

Murray


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Yes this poll is not scientific in any way, just an orderall do you feel happy with your purchase of the PVR 721 type of thing.


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## Mike Russell (Feb 6, 2003)

Thanks Murray, I have got to get it replaced soon anyway because tuner 2 is very bad at times.I'm just trying to get stuff watched that I have recorded. Problem is I don't have time to watch it and I just keep recording more.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Yes this poll is not scientific in any way, just an orderall do you feel happy with your purchase of the PVR 721 type of thing.


Scott,

If you are going to do a poll, why not do it right? This one is going to give you highly inaccurate results because there is no "middle ground".

Why won't you re-do the poll (using my suggestion)?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I bet there would be quite a few that would choose a middle choice giving some software and mostly second tuner problems. I do not hear much about the hard drive failure problems at least. That is even worse than the second tuner issue.


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## DmitriA (Aug 6, 2002)

I can't get a definitive answer. I would say 'somewhat happy' but certainly not completely drooling over it...


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## baloo75 (Jun 12, 2003)

I wish there was an additional line in the poll. Something like "Mostly satisfied".

The reason I say this is I am definetly NOT dissatisfied, however I also am NOT completely satisfied overall. I am not going to start why I am not completely satisfied because this has been covered in many other threads.


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

I think the question is fine and serves its point. Which is not quantify your level of satisfaction (which we could never do with a single survey question, even if it was a scale of 1-10), but rather to dispel the ridiculous notion that a few posters keep incessently harping that the 721 is useless, featureless and/or crappy. If that were the case, there wouldn't even be discussion on what "happy" means. Unhappy would be crystal clear. The numbers above support the assertion that the 721 is not as those posters want to paint it. Sure the 721 can be better, sure there are features that people would like, but the same is true for Tivo, Moxi, Digeo and Replay (maybe especially for Replay now that D&M is downgrading its capabilities). Lacking a desired feature does not _prima facia_ make a piece of technology inferior.

I also think a second survey is needed to dispel the other silly idea that 721 owners are only "happy" because they are uniformed and clueless as to how other PVRs function. I suspect that a strong majority of 721 owners are fully informed and have at one time or another owned/used/encountered a variety of PVR/DVR technologies, including the new slipstream DVD recorders.

I think 721 owners are satisfied (however you qualify the term) with the 721 BECAUSE they know what is out there. To include all the +/- and have weighted their purchase decisions accordingly.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I am happy with the 721 because, right now at least, it is the best combination of hardware, software (ie. channels available), price, and utility (a word we economics majors like to throw around).

A Tivo may be more user friendly and stable, but the picture is degraded on the standalone units to VHS "quality". DirecTV didn't appeal to me because of the superstation availability and grandfathered distants.

Therefore as a basically "captive" E* subscriber this is the best unit which fits my needs. A jumbo hard drive PVR with the two tuners and PIP.

However, when the 921 is released I will not be able to get rid of my 721 fast enough. (I was originally going to trade it in, until my Mom found out that she can record two channels at once. Now she wants it.......). That doesn't make it a bad unit or say that I am unhappy with it. Only that something better is out there that appeals to me more than the extra money in my wallet.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Also, in regards to the poll..... anyone checking to see that there aren't any D* trolls trying to drive down the "happy" vote?


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## rcwilcox (Jan 20, 2003)

I too probably would have chosen something between yes and no. The first one had a bad tuner then when I called in they told me I could swap it out in Duluth Ga at the E* warehouse. I went out of my way to go there and guess what that place has thousands of receivers but not one 721. What a mess. It also does some strange things like reboot if signal is lost. On balance I did vote yes and I know it is complicated machine but I think they could have done better and the price ... twice a 508? Seems high but I am glad I have it.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I am putting all my receivers in the basement. Jen is bothered by the hard drive noiise espically when they begin to age and get noisey. So far my 508s love living down there. Less cables upstairs too when I clean.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> A Tivo may be more user friendly and stable, but the picture is degraded on the standalone units to VHS "quality". DirecTV didn't appeal to me because of the superstation availability and grandfathered distants.
> 
> Therefore as a basically "captive" E* subscriber this is the best unit which fits my needs. A jumbo hard drive PVR with the two tuners and PIP.


This sums up my feelings in a nice consise manner as well, except that DirecTV is not an option due to the fact of thier horrible, horrible customer service and pricing plans, locals were good enough for me in that aspect, so superstations wern't a concern.

Two tuners and records from the stream directly were absolute "must haves" for me. The 721 was the only option that fit this bill.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If DirecTv does get your own local market then they may get a superstation in that market in which would make up for not having the superstations package especially it being local.


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## falsie (Jun 18, 2003)

Okay, I'm pretty satisfied. I was more satisfied before I read about all the system bugs on the Forum. My 721 works fine, and I use it all the time.
I wish E* would focus less on getting new customers and pay a little attention to existing customers.


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## jferris33 (Nov 7, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Please only vote on this question if you are a 721 owner.
> 
> The question is overall, are you happy with your Dish PVR 721?
> 
> Feel free to explain your vote if you wish.


I voted yes because I like all of the features of the 721 and find it very useful for recording the programs that I like to watch. I especially like the ability to record two programs at the same time or record one program and watch another.

Having said this I also have to say that I am now on my third 721. The first two had a tuner die and had to be replaced. The first one lasted about 6 months and the second about the same period of time.

The good news is that I didn't have to spend a penny to have them replaced - first was on warranty and second was because I signed up for the extended warranty after reading posts on this forum about other having to have their units replaced.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The only good thing I can get out of the pvr receivers going bad is that if they have a warranty you end up with a new or refurbished receiver at no cost every so often. Some may see that as a good thing just like you get a new tv or another electronic device every so often.


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## handler (Dec 12, 2002)

I'm generally really happy with the 721 (I voted YES); I stepped up to it after a year of using a DishPlayer. My thoughts:

Things I Like:


90 hour recording capacity + clear indicator of remaining space
Dual tuners
Much faster response time on searches and navigating the EPG
Not having the software and EPG downloads interfere with using the unit, even at 3 am

Things I Want, And Know Will Be Fixed In An Upcoming Software Release, And I'm Tired Of Waiting For:


Discrete power codes
Folders for sorting saved programs
The screensavers (*cough*)
Fix for the kick-to-live bug

Things I Miss From The DishPlayer:

(Those of you with constant DishPlayer problems, feel free to laugh, but I generally had a good experience. I know I was lucky, but there you go.)


Near silent operation: hard drive noise aside, it's not hard to make a passively cooled machine (no fans) that runs within specifications, especially when you're not using a top-of-the-line Intel or AMD processor. For minimal expenditure, Dish could bring in some of the technology from QuietPC or Shuttle or Soekris or the like and greatly improve the user experience.

The "PVR" channel (channel 1): I liked being able to kick the DishPlayer over to channel 1 and just get the logo and no sound; I'd leave that channel on while I was setting up timers or paging through the guide, when I didn't want the distraction of other programs playing. I've been using the Front Panel Input channel (channel 0) on the 721, but it's not quite the same... The system feels a bit less stable on that channel, and if you power the 721 off while it's on channel 0, it goes back to the last "real" channel it was viewing when you turn it back on. The DishPlayer stayed on channel 1 if you powered it off on channel 1, and it was nice to have the option of not being immediately assaulted by whatever channel you were on last.

The wireless keyboard. The lack of this accessory is completely inexplicable, unless they're holding it back until they've gotten the Internet option working on the 721. (The prospect of that kind of chafes me because I have about 0 interest in using any web-browsing features when I've already got a laptop and wireless ethernet.)

I promised myself I'd stay out of the "name-based recording" discussion, but I'm so fed up that I'll say my piece and get out:


Anyone who's been reading this board knew what they were getting into re: the 721's lack of NBR (*and* the reasons behind it), so excessive whining about it in public is childish and irritating. Complain to Dish, they're the only ones who can fix it, but none of the rest of us want to hear about it.

It's *also* specious to say that we shouldn't miss the technology. Maybe checking 20 timers every week just to make sure the networks haven't moved things around is your idea of fun, but it's not mine. (If it IS your idea of fun, lemme know and you can come over and do it for me.) The functionality is only logical: we have a list of data, and a computer, and computers are REALLY GOOD at searching lists of data, much better than we are (for most cases). Why should I do it when the computer can do it faster and more accurately, and leave me more time to do the things I want to do (like posting here)?

Like it or not, TiVo set the standard for the PVR featureset, and any PVR lacking NBR isn't quite going to measure up. How much it bothers you depends on how often the programs you record move around; mine don't, so it's only a sporadic annoyance. (My TiVo owning friends make fun of me when it happens, but my PVR continues to work fine in the absence of guide data, so, c'est la vie.)

To reframe this debate into potentially something slightly more useful: does anyone know if TiVo is even willing to license the NBR patent to their competitors? It would be one thing if Dish was refusing to buy a license on principal, but it's another if TiVo simply refuses to allow anyone else to use the technology, or because the cost is prohibitively expensive. If the former, we should all be complaining to Dish about it until they relent and give us what we want, but if it's the latter, we're pretty much up a creek _sans_ paddle until someone comes up with a workaround that gets the functionality without violating the letter of the patent. (Destroy all software patents, raaar.)

Anyway, I like my 721 a bunch. I wish it was quieter and had folders, but the only thing that I'm *really* jonesing for right now is discrete power codes (it's the ONE device I have left that I don't have a good discrete or a clean workaround for), and I'm wishing and hoping and crossing my fingers that a) the next release comes out soon and b) that it has discrete power codes.


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

handler, I am pretty sure I saw a thread with new discrete power codes in it. I don't have a device that uses them so I didn't read with any detail. Do a search. I think it was one of Mark's posting, but not sure.

_Here it is, sounds like what you may need?_
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=10099

A lot of DP owners miss the PVR channel (the quickest way yet to get back to the last PVR that was being watched). Wireless kepboard was handy. 721 can use a USB keyboard or mouse now. But a long cord could be required! I also realy miss the Recent screen (had screens of the last six channels on one screen). Also really miss the ability to unselect channels from display in all guides.

As for NBR, how often has anyone found that regularly scheduled shows bounce around, AND the guide is still correct? In all the years that we have had the 501 and 721, the static timer event for these units only missed one episode of Angel, and that was when Iraqi Freedom launched and everyone missed it because WB dropped for news. NBR is certainly "insurance", but how often is it used. The bump has to preplanned far enough in advance to get it into the guide and back sown to the subscriber. To me, it seems the greatest value of NBR is to enable the Season Pass. That sounds like a great feature.

Does anyone actually have personalized/customized folders? From a Tivo page, sounds like this will be in Tivo 4.0?

Does Tivo actually have the patent for NBR?? I have searched through at least 500 patents applications and grants on the PTO.gov website and cannot actually find a NBR patent. There a lots that dance around the capability, (value checking, storage events, etc... abound) so I am not sure on NBR itsself. Looks like Tivo and Replay had concurrent filings for similar technology so maybe no decision was made?? According to a Tivo SEC filing, looks like they were sued over a similar issue about 5 yrs ago.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Replay has NBR, so if TiVo does have a patent on it they have licensed it to Replay.

Dennis


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## chris_h (Mar 19, 2003)

I think it was mentioned at the last tech chat that the software upgrade which will allow the 721 to respond to discrete power codes should be out by the end of August 2003.


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## handler (Dec 12, 2002)

Yeah, I've been reading the discrete code forums at remotecentral.com, and unfortunately those codes don't work with the 721.  The consensus is that the 721 doesn't support the discrete operations at all yet, so we can only hope that the new code release brings this support.



Randy_B said:


> I also realy miss the Recent screen (had screens of the last six channels on one screen).


Yeah, that one too. :/



Randy_B said:


> As for NBR, how often has anyone found that regularly scheduled shows bounce around, AND the guide is still correct?


All of them, in my experience. HBO moved _The Wire_ from 9 to 9:30 during this season, TLC moved _Monster Garage_ from 8 to 9... All of these changes were accurately reflected in the guide. Certainly some low-competency channels don't update the guide source promptly, but I think overall you're underestimating the amount of work that the programmers put into making the guide data accurate. Even before PVRs started using it to do recordings, it was crucial to have it right -- how else are people supposed to find out when things are on? They'd be right annoyed if they tuned in at 10 PM on Sunday to find out the program had been moved to Friday nights, and the guide hadn't been updated.



Randy_B said:


> To me, it seems the greatest value of NBR is to enable the Season Pass. That sounds like a great feature.


No argument at all. The REAL annoyance of the lack of NBR is having to note when shows start up after summer hiatus, and set up new timers for them. I don't want to have timers firing for _The Shield_ all summer and having to delete whatever's recorded in that timeslot, to keep the drive from filling up.



Randy_B said:


> Does anyone actually have personalized/customized folders? From a Tivo page, sounds like this will be in Tivo 4.0?


A friend with TiVo has the latest software release, and it has folders, yes.



Randy_B said:


> Does Tivo actually have the patent for NBR??


That was my understanding, given the last threads I read on the subject; but I'll freely admit that it was a while ago, and it's certainly possible that the consensus is something different now.  I'll confess that I can't figure any other reason that Dish would be saying they have no plans to ever implement Name-Based Recording. At best, they'd hedge their bets and say "maybe at a later date, depending on resource availability and demand." But, "no plans" says to me that either Charlie has a religious objection to NBR, or someone else will sue/make Dish pay through the nose if they want to add that functionality.


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## baloo75 (Jun 12, 2003)

Ok so there has been a lot of talk about name based recording so I sniffed through the patent office listings a little. I found one that sounds like it:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...ing+AND+EPG&RS=((Name+AND+Recording)+AND+EPG)

The interesting thing is that Gateway owns this patent. I could be wrong but it sure sounds like name based recording.


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

Isn't that fun, reading through 1000's of pages of legaleaze? I searched for all patents to Tivo, Repaly, Moxie and their founders, so didn't find that one, or maybe my eyes had swelled shut from squinting at the fine print.

Wow, that sounds good, but did you notice that the patent is only 90+ days old? Perhaps Tivo & Replay never actually got around to submitting the paperwork?


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Randy_B said:


> Wow, that sounds good, but did you notice that the patent is only 90+ days old? Perhaps Tivo & Replay never actually got around to submitting the paperwork?


It was filed in 1999. When did TiVo and Replay start up?


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## Kevin Elm (Feb 4, 2003)

I am one of the unlucky ones who is now on the 3rd 721 and 2nd platinum remote. But I still am satisfied with my 721.


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## baloo75 (Jun 12, 2003)

baloo75 said:


> Ok so there has been a lot of talk about name based recording so I sniffed through the patent office listings a little. I found one that sounds like it:
> 
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...ing+AND+EPG&RS=((Name+AND+Recording)+AND+EPG)
> 
> The interesting thing is that Gateway owns this patent. I could be wrong but it sure sounds like name based recording.


Ok...I just noticed if you clicked on the link you might not be taken to the correct patent so this time the link actually goes to the patent number instead of the search results:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...,549,929.WKU.&OS=PN/6,549,929&RS=PN/6,549,929

Sorry about that.


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