# Not happy at all



## one.person (Jul 22, 2010)

Well, here I am in the middle of my appointment time of 8-12 and I just got my first call from Directv saying that due to a national shortage of equipment they need to reschedule my installation for next week. I am waiting for a call back from a supervisor.

I have to say that I am *seriously *ticked off. I had to take off work to be home for this, and cannot very well do it again next week. I was taking advantage of a joint deal between Costco and Directv that if I buy a TV from Costco and sign up for Directv I would get a total of $250 in Costco cards. But only if I activate service within 30 days. Well, I ordered on 7/11 and *still* have not had service installed and activated.

I mean did they just figure out in the middle of my appointment window that they were not going to have equipment for me!?

I am strongly considering canceling this whole deal and returning the TV to Costco while I still can.

Sorry to rant here, but this sucks


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

one.person said:


> Well, here I am in the middle of my appointment time of 8-12 and I just got my first call from Directv saying that due to a national shortage of equipment they need to reschedule my installation for next week. I am waiting for a call back from a supervisor.
> 
> I have to say that I am *seriously *ticked off. I had to take off work to be home for this, and cannot very well do it again next week. I was taking advantage of a joint deal between Costco and Directv that if I buy a TV from Costco and sign up for Directv I would get a total of $250 in Costco cards. But only if I activate service within 30 days. Well, I ordered on 7/11 and *still* have not had service installed and activated.
> 
> ...


It's understandable that you would be upset. One thing that may help is that a missed appointment will often get you a credit up to $100. Call Directv and see what they will do for you. Also, mention the time lag and your concerns regarding it.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

He can call, but I don't think they consider what was stated above as a "missed appointment" since they called and explained why it would not happen.

one.person, can you talk to someone at Costco and see if/how DirecTV's pushing out your install date will affect your deal.

The worst part is the finding time to take off work - sorry, can't help you with that one. Is a weekend install a possibility?

Oh, and welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s


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## MadMac (Feb 18, 2008)

It's a bad show all round - it's one thing for them to cancel the day before, another thing to do so in the middle of the 'window'. I'd certainly talk to Costco - their member service is usually pretty helpful, they may be able to do something for you.


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## one.person (Jul 22, 2010)

MadMac said:


> ...it's one thing for them to cancel the day before, another thing to do so in the middle of the 'window'.


This is the main thing for me. Had they called me yesterday, I could have worked today and taken a day off next week. I would have been disappointed, but it would have been workable. Now they have caused me to lose an entire day's worth of wages, which is not a measly sum. Having taken today off, I simply cannot do it next week. My wife has tomorrow off, but that's it. Unless they can get it done this weekend, and compensate me somehow for the lost time at work, this thing is probably going to fall apart.



MadMac said:


> I'd certainly talk to Costco - their member service is usually pretty helpful, they may be able to do something for you.


Fortunately Costco will let me return the TV. After looking further at the rebate form that I picked up there, it is actually a Directv rebate, not a Costco one. So really all Costco can do is take the TV back. I am glad I at least have that option. I am also glad that I am satisfied with my cable/Tivo combination that I currently have. The rebate deal seemed like a decent excuse to go ahead and get the second TV I had been thinking about for a while, and DVR service between the two was just icing on the cake.

2 hours and counting and still no supervisor call.....


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

If you decide to keep the install try for a weekend install. When I got my dish upgrade I scheduled a Saturday install. Some places even do Sunday installs. Especially this time of year which is by far the busiest due to NFL Sunday Ticket. Some areas might already be booked up the whole month.

And try to be the first install of the day, that way you're first and you won't have to wait around while they are "behind" at someone else's place.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> He can call, but I don't think they consider what was stated above as a "missed appointment" since they called and explained why it would not happen.


Maybe, but it sure qualifies as missed in my book. I would call and see what they will do for you, one.person.


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## one.person (Jul 22, 2010)

*Still *no call from a supervisor. I just left a message at the number they called me from earlier, which apparently is their local installation center.

This is positively atrocious customer service. I cannot believe this is how potential customers are treated.


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## mystic7 (Dec 9, 2007)

Wait'll you become a "long time customer". Then the service gets REALLY good


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## Manctech (Jul 5, 2010)

I understand your frustrations but just make sure you focus your anger in the right direction.

The installers/company that are doing your install have NO control over how much equipment we get delivered. We even ration what we do get on a work order only basis. This means every tech has to come in every day to get HD's and HD-DVR's. Most days there is NONE, ZILCH, ZERO to be issued. We are losing money.

D* needs to stop scheduling more work then they have the equipment for. 

Our last shipment of HD-DVR's contained approximately 350 HD-DVR's for 100 techs and multiple subpartners.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*one.person*, you should seriously consider not going with DirecTV.

While I won't try to defend them - they should have called yesterday or before to cancel - if you are this totally bent out of shape by them calling saying they can't show up, think of how you'd feel if you got this service and had still had a two year commitment to the company to complete.

Cut your loses while you can. Or as I often say, you should be entertained by your entertainment.

I'm serious about this. After today, why would you put yourself through all of this turmoil to go with DirecTV?


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## one.person (Jul 22, 2010)

Manctech said:


> I understand your frustrations but just make sure you focus your anger in the right direction.
> 
> The installers/company that are doing your install have NO control over how much equipment we get delivered. We even ration what we do get on a work order only basis. This means every tech has to come in every day to get HD's and HD-DVR's. Most days there is NONE, ZILCH, ZERO to be issued. We are losing money.
> 
> ...


I have no way of knowing where to "focus my anger." No matter who dropped the ball, the fact is no one bothered to call until well into the installation appointment window to inform me there was no equipment to install. That is unacceptable. This shows a complete disregard and lack of respect for the value of their customer's time.

How could they not anticipate this situation even 1 day ahead of time and call me?!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

one.person said:


> ...
> How could they not anticipate this situation even 1 day ahead of time and call me?!


The tech might not of known he didn't have whatever he needed until you were next. My Dad was a pool tech & some days he would get his days schedule & go to the warehouse for a part, but they're out. Got to reschedule...you must realize you're not the only customer.


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## one.person (Jul 22, 2010)

Carl Spock said:


> I'm serious about this. After today, why would you put yourself through all of this turmoil to go with DirecTV?


Let's be clear, I am not putting myself through anything. All I did was order a service, waited several weeks for it, and then arranged my schedule to accommodate the installation time.

It is still possible for them to make this right. If a supervisor were to call me up, take responsibility, guarantee installation within the 30 day timeframe the rebate requires, and offer some concession for my trouble (such as a service credit as mentioned above), I would certainly proceed with the service I ordered. I am a reasonable person and understand that mistakes get made, but so far, no one at Directv has bothered to offer any explanation whatever.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

one.person said:


> Well, here I am in the middle of my appointment time of 8-12 and I just got my first call from Directv saying that due to a national shortage of equipment they need to reschedule my installation for next week. I am waiting for a call back from a supervisor.
> 
> I have to say that I am *seriously *ticked off. I had to take off work to be home for this, and cannot very well do it again next week. I was taking advantage of a joint deal between Costco and Directv that if I buy a TV from Costco and sign up for Directv I would get a total of $250 in Costco cards. But only if I activate service within 30 days. Well, I ordered on 7/11 and *still* have not had service installed and activated.
> 
> ...


Calm down before you act. First learn from your mistake. Never use a second party to aquire a service. As for the tv if you are sastified with it then keep it. Save yourself the hassle of returning it. As for your appointment being canceled the last minute well that's plain wrong. I think the blame for that lies with the installer and not DirecTV. Keep them informed of your situation. Request a weekend install for your next appointment. DirecTV will make this right for you. They really have the best satellite service available. Don't wait for the supervisor to call you. "He who hesitates looses"


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> *one.person*, you should seriously consider not going with DirecTV.
> 
> While I won't try to defend them - they should have called yesterday or before to cancel - if you are this totally bent out of shape by them calling saying they can't show up, think of how you'd feel if you got this service and had still had a two year commitment to the company to complete.
> 
> ...


Logical as usual Mr. Spock 
I agree, if it sucks at the start just imagine how bad it might get when the deal is sealed. I have had mostly good dealings with Directv but from the posts I see, your milage may Vary.


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## Manctech (Jul 5, 2010)

one.person said:


> I have no way of knowing where to "focus my anger." No matter who dropped the ball, the fact is no one bothered to call until well into the installation appointment window to inform me there was no equipment to install. That is unacceptable. This shows a complete disregard and lack of respect for the value of their customer's time.
> 
> How could they not anticipate this situation even 1 day ahead of time and call me?!


Because we get 500 work orders a day. Recently with the extreme shortages, some days 50% + of new installs get rescheduled. There is no way to anticipate ahead of time which jobs will go in.

A tech might have 3 HD DVR's and 5 installs. He will use what he has but someone is getting shorted.

Personally I will make that call early in the morning and call you around 7:30. But this is a double edged sword. Then customers are pissed you woke them up just to tell them the bad news.


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## one.person (Jul 22, 2010)

MysteryMan said:


> Calm down before you act. First learn from your mistake. Never use a second party to aquire a service.


I made no mistakes. I went here first, clicked the link for residential customers which took me to here which is on Directv's website. I ordered the service directly, not through Costco. Costco merely sold me a TV.



MysteryMan said:


> DirecTV will make this right for you. They really have the best satellite service available.


I am waiting to give them the opportunity to make it right.



MysteryMan said:


> Don't wait for the supervisor to call you. "He who hesitates looses"


Read the thread, I have called them back, they are not returning my calls.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

one.person said:


> Let's be clear, I am not putting myself through anything.


Of course you didn't cause this problem, but the aftermath is all you. Emotionally, you're all wound up over this. Read your own posts. Hell, just read your title:

 *Not happy at all*

I'm not saying you should be happy. But give me one good reason to subscribe with a company that makes you so unhappy even before you have given them one cent?

Do yourself a favor. Back away while you can. I would.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

one.person said:


> I made no mistakes. I went here first, clicked the link for residential customers which took me to here which is on Directv's website. I ordered the service directly, not through Costco. Costco merely sold me a TV.
> 
> I am waiting to give them the opportunity to make it right.
> 
> Read the thread, I have called them back, they are not returning my calls.


Are you at least sastified with the TV?


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

For a new customer not knowing the inner workings of install day and equipment allocation, the OP is rightfully pissed IMO. How Directv allocates equipment, how installers are given jobs etc should not be the OP's concern. Cancelling an install due to equipment shortage during the install window from taking time off work...not good.

OP, who is not returning your calls? Directv or the install company?


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

one.person said:


> I made no mistakes. I went here first, clicked the link for residential customers which took me to here which is on Directv's website. I ordered the service directly, not through Costco. Costco merely sold me a TV.
> 
> I am waiting to give them the opportunity to make it right.
> 
> Read the thread, I have called them back, they are not returning my calls.


This isn't going to be all what you want to hear, but i'll let you know some of the back story anyway.

As the manctech said... the equipment shortages are horrible, and to add to that, our warehouse was promised a delivery of equipment from *D on Monday. The truck actually showed up this morning, with half the order on it they were promised. So, on monday, there were techs with workorders that waited and waited hoping the truck would show up so they could work.... never happened, at 10, they pulled the plug on the day and started calling what was left.
on tuesday, the same thing happened as the truck was promised tuesday morning.... at 10 they pulled the plug.
today, at 10:15 the truck shows up, by 11 it's unloaded, scanned into the warehouse and some orders went out... but now, half the stock is depleted and it's going to be the promised 'monday' for another truck with our offices allotment of *D equipment.

When the warehouse runs out, the supervisors and or call center are going to start calling with the first tech that walks in from the warehouse saying, no gear, reschedule these and they make the call down the list from the top of the stack to the bottom.

you said you called back on the same number they called you from so if a field sup called you and you called said field supervisors cell phone back, it's now swamped in hundreds of calls he is getting from various places, techs, call centers, others.

Buy from what you are saying you likely got called by a off shored call center for the local office, and they say what ever they can to get you off the phone with them and never actually called or even e-mailed the local field office.

call *D and tell them your appointment is missed and you want escalated priority reschedule, and move on with what's left of your day and hope for the best.

Now comes the best part.... it is all stuck in a feedback loop.

*D is taking new orders and scheduling them out.
*D is out of equipment for said orders so only about half of them go in.
*D gives priority reschedule for jobs like this, causing them to get forced into 'full' days overbooking techs and depleting a weeks worth of equipment in 4 days causing 3 more days to get 'doubled up' meaning next weeks equipment only lasts 3.5 days... and so on and so on.


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

Whatever you do don't decide not to get DTV, take the stuff back and not be there for the next appointment they set up for you.........


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

^ That makes my head hurt.


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## 420benz (Dec 20, 2006)

ONE.PERSON 
Don't give up on D*. I am so happy with my new HR24-500 and i have had no problems with the CSR'S. Just hang in there.


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

netraa said:


> Now comes the best part.... it is all stuck in a feedback loop.
> 
> *D is taking new orders and scheduling them out.
> *D is out of equipment for said orders so only about half of them go in.
> *D gives priority reschedule for jobs like this, causing them to get forced into 'full' days overbooking techs and depleting a weeks worth of equipment in 4 days causing 3 more days to get 'doubled up' meaning next weeks equipment only lasts 3.5 days... and so on and so on.


That's messed up, sounds like a nightmare.

Maybe someone should 'accidentally' kick a plug somewhere so that no new orders pile up for a week or so.


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## one.person (Jul 22, 2010)

gnahc79 said:


> For a new customer not knowing the inner workings of install day and equipment allocation, the OP is rightfully pissed IMO. How Directv allocates equipment, how installers are given jobs etc should not be the OP's concern. Cancelling an install due to equipment shortage during the install window from taking time off work...not good.


Thank you. Rather than telling me to stop "putting myself through it" or "making mistakes" or "directing my anger in the appropriate direction," I appreciate you noticing that as a new customer ordering a service through a website I have no idea about the details of the installs. I have no way of knowing whether it is contracted out, how Directv deals with or treats installers, how Directv delivers (or not) equipment, or whether there is a shortage.



gnahc79 said:


> OP, who is not returning your calls? Directv or the install company?


I am not completely sure. The woman that called me from a local area code this morning told me a supervisor would call me back today. She told me she could do nothing else because she was just in "administration." I called that number back this afternoon and left a message since I could not get a human on the phone. Whatever that local number is, it is represented as "Directv Home Services."

I just called the national number, followed the instructions to cancel, and was connected to what was likely an overseas call center. They told me the soonest that they could install was next Tuesday, which is 1 day outside of the period in which I had to activate service in order to get the $200 rebate for buying a TV at Costco. It doesn't matter anyway because neither my wife nor I could be home that day. After hearing about all this earlier, my wife had arranged to be available next Monday or tomorrow if Directv would offer an appointment either of those days.

At this point it is over and canceled. The woman I spoke too to cancel could not (or would not) escalate it any further, or give me an appointment earlier than next Tuesday. I could not get ahold of, nor would anyone local return my calls.

The real test of a company is how they deal with customers when there is a problem, and in this case Directv failed miserably. I ordered a service, waited almost a month for it, and have been quite flexible in being available for appointments. It is over and canceled. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

420benz said:


> ONE.PERSON
> Don't give up on D*. I am so happy with my new HR24-500 and i have had no problems with the CSR'S. Just hang in there.


Let me disagree with you on this one and agree with Carl.
Why do you want someone who is so unhappy at the very start, still getting Directv? All that's going to happen is that everytime he has a problem his anger is going to get greater and more bad feeling are going to be posted.

And yes I am going to assume he will have problems, I am yet to encounter a person who didnt, even though a lot of the times it was their own lack of knowledge that created the problem, In the end most of it still gets vented at Directv.

In any business every once in awhile you completely drop the ball on a customer and IMHO it's best just to move on rather than go forward with a Black eye.


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## retromzc (Sep 7, 2007)

Wow, I feel rather lucky considering what the op has gone through. I called Directv on Sunday and ordered a hd dvr to replace a non dvr receiver and was scheduled for Tuesday install. Tech showed up at 8:00 a.m, installed a HR24-500 and left by 9:30.


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

one.person said:


> Well, here I am in the middle of my appointment time of 8-12 and I just got my first call from Directv saying that due to a national shortage of equipment they need to reschedule my installation for next week. I am waiting for a call back from a supervisor.
> 
> I have to say that I am *seriously *ticked off. I had to take off work to be home for this, and cannot very well do it again next week. I was taking advantage of a joint deal between Costco and Directv that if I buy a TV from Costco and sign up for Directv I would get a total of $250 in Costco cards. But only if I activate service within 30 days. Well, I ordered on 7/11 and *still* have not had service installed and activated.
> 
> ...


Send them a bill for your time sitting home waiting.


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> ^ That makes my head hurt.


Mine too and I typed it. :lol:


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I sure hope Filipiak's office reads this thread, and the others like it. They need to shape up their customer service, period.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

If the installers don't have the equipment how is that their fault? The fault lies with D*, as usual. But how can D* predict how much equipment they will need for any given week? Yeah it sounds as if the TS is getting a runaround, but he should be calling D* directly and not calling the installer's number. 

If the deal he's looking to get is a D* promotion, then D* will work with him, he shouldn't lose anything, he hasn't done anything wrong. Keep in mind the installers work on Saturdays and Sundays and most holidays. All he has to do is call D* and if the CSR he gets doesn't do anything to satisfy him he should ask for the CSR's supervisor. And keep calling. Just be polite and persistent. 

New subs are usually horrified by the way D* does it's business, but it works, wouldn't work if they were making cars or running an airline, but for TV provision it certainly works as well as can be expected. Patience, politeness and persistence pay off.

Rich


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## goldwing (Aug 25, 2006)

Personally i believe all companys that offer a service for a fee should have be able to do it within 24 hours of the sell with no exceptions. If it takes longer then that then the new cust should get the service free for 6 months or more. Again NO EXCEPTIONS!! The problem with todays businesses is all they care about is the next quarter when they should be thinking about 2-5 years ahead. The USA has moved from a manufacturing powerhouse to a service country and cant even get that right. Bottom line is these companys need to quit worrying about profits and stock price and put there #1 priority to their clients. An honest company that puts there clients ahead of everything else will win in the end. ok rant over 

p.s. local time warner offers next day service or free for 1 year.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

I could just see the look on one.person's face when he sees the scratched HR21 the installer brings him. Poor guy might not be lucky enough to get a shiny new HR24:grin:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

goldwing said:


> Personally i believe all companys that offer a service for a fee should have be able to do it within 24 hours of the sell with no exceptions.


I gotta admit I don't wait long for service calls.



> The problem with todays businesses is all they care about is the next quarter when they should be thinking about 2-5 years ahead. The USA has moved from a manufacturing powerhouse to a service country and cant even get that right. Bottom line is these companys need to quit worrying about profits and stock price and put there #1 priority to their clients. An honest company that puts there clients ahead of everything else will win in the end. ok rant over


Here's a *link* that will give you an idea how well D* treats their customers. And, please remember, I like D* and I understand how they do business and have no real problem with that. I also have to admit that I've been treated very well by D*. Long learning curve to reach that point, tho.

Rich


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

rich584 said:


> New subs are usually horrified by the way D* does it's business, but it works, wouldn't work if they were making cars or running an airline, but for TV provision it certainly works as well as can be expected. Patience, politeness and persistence pay off.


The crazy thing is, D* doesn't have to improve anything. Once they finally get those new customers hooked up, they're in it for 2 years of revenue no matter what.

Either way, they gots their money, so why should they care?

It's very disappointing.


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## rob316 (Jun 29, 2008)

If I were the OP, I would just cancel the install, by what some people are saying about shortages he may not get the install for weeks. Return the TV and move on, it's not worth the headache


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Tom Servo said:


> The crazy thing is, D* doesn't have to improve anything. Once they finally get those new customers hooked up, they're in it for 2 years of revenue no matter what.
> 
> Either way, they gots their money, so why should they care?
> 
> It's very disappointing.


It is disappointing when it happens. They have a wonderful product. Their churn rate is pretty low (for the industry), so they don't have much of an idea how badly some of the CSRs can be.

In the 15 years I've been with them, I've had very good luck, but when I helped a 9 year customer upgrade a few weeks ago (WHDVR+SWiM+HD-DVR and HD Receiver) it was like having a root canal. If I hadn't been there handling the phone he would not have gotten anything, as he (I) was told he wasn't eligible to upgrade his system. Then he was told he'd have to pay list price for everything. It was ....well...moronic. Then I asked to speak to someone more familiar with the process and she said, "I'm very familiar with this process, I've been here a *long time*, *six months!*"

If it hadn't been so funny, I think I might have gotten irritated.

I wonder what other job would allow one to consider oneself a "long term employee" at six months.:lol:

But, back to reality: he absolutely loves his system, the install went perfectly and in the end he got a decent deal (monetarily)

He was actually laughing listening to me on the phone making the deal, so he didn't get bent out of shape either.

From both his and D*'s position, all's well that ends well....I guess.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> But how can D* predict how much equipment they will need for any given week?


Months in advance, they can look at past history and trending to make a pretty good forecast of how much equipment they'll need per week.

But even a week before, they can be pretty accurate. If they have orders for 243 HD DVRs to be installed next week, then they know they need 243 HD DVRs. If they have 248 in inventory, then they can take orders for 5 more (or if they're really smart, they'll keep some reserve in inventory for unexpected needs).

If someone calls and places an order for more than they have in inventory, then they can either decline the order, or schedule it out to when they expect new inventory. If something happens and the new inventory doesn't come in, then DirecTV can cancel or reschedule a week in advance.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom Servo said:


> The crazy thing is, D* doesn't have to improve anything. Once they finally get those new customers hooked up, they're in it for 2 years of revenue no matter what.
> 
> Either way, they gots their money, so why should they care?
> 
> It's very disappointing.


Oh, it is if you're not prepared for it. I really don't understand how folks who have no knowledge that forums such as this one exist deal with D*. I think they are the ones who complain to various agencies. I really doubt that anyone who has spent a considerable time on this forum would even bother to lodge a complaint.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Months in advance, they can look at past history and trending to make a pretty good forecast of how much equipment they'll need per week.
> 
> But even a week before, they can be pretty accurate. If they have orders for 243 HD DVRs to be installed next week, then they know they need 243 HD DVRs. If they have 248 in inventory, then they can take orders for 5 more (or if they're really smart, they'll keep some reserve in inventory for unexpected needs).
> 
> If someone calls and places an order for more than they have in inventory, then they can either decline the order, or schedule it out to when they expect new inventory. If something happens and the new inventory doesn't come in, then DirecTV can cancel or reschedule a week in advance.


D* doesn't seem to be a company that tries to foresee what is coming. They seem to react to problems rather than trying to prevent them. Sure seems to work for them. Even when they put out a new option, such as MRV, they kinda let the chips fall where they may and fix things afterward. They could have done a bang-up job of training installers for MRV, but what they did was kinda rudimentary and they fixed what needed to be fixed after the beta period was over.

Not a bad way to do it, proper training would have cost a fortune and the installers learned as they went from job to job. Some paid attention to the training that they got, but most didn't and they got it figured out. The thing is, D*'s product is not dangerous and using the HRs presents no real danger. It is frustrating when things go wrong, but with persistence things get straightened out. Not a bad way to run a company.

I think.

Rich


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

rich584 said:


> D* doesn't seem to be a company that tries to foresee what is coming. They seem to react to problems rather than trying to prevent them. Sure seems to work for them. Even when they put out a new option, such as MRV, they kinda let the chips fall where they may and fix things afterward. They could have done a bang-up job of training installers for MRV, but what they did was kinda rudimentary and they fixed what needed to be fixed after the beta period was over.
> 
> Not a bad way to do it, proper training would have cost a fortune and the installers learned as they went from job to job. Some paid attention to the training that they got, but most didn't and they got it figured out. The thing is, D*'s product is not dangerous and using the HRs presents no real danger. It is frustrating when things go wrong, but with persistence things get straightened out. Not a bad way to run a company.
> 
> ...


Or perhaps something came up that was not expected such as their ability to offer DNS, which are mpeg 4 only, in some markets or other neighboring markets which are mpeg 4 only. As this was just ruled on by the FCC they couldn't have anticipated this. Add this with a large take rate of MRV and you run into this issue.

The upside to all of this is atleast more people will be getting the 24 models when they get them in stock.


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## rjdude (Mar 9, 2005)

rich584 said:


> D* doesn't seem to be a company that tries to foresee what is coming. They seem to react to problems rather than trying to prevent them. Sure seems to work for them. Even when they put out a new option, such as MRV, they kinda let the chips fall where they may and fix things afterward. They could have done a bang-up job of training installers for MRV, but what they did was kinda rudimentary and they fixed what needed to be fixed after the beta period was over.
> 
> Not a bad way to do it, proper training would have cost a fortune and the installers learned as they went from job to job. Some paid attention to the training that they got, but most didn't and they got it figured out. The thing is, D*'s product is not dangerous and using the HRs presents no real danger. It is frustrating when things go wrong, but with persistence things get straightened out. Not a bad way to run a company.
> 
> ...


You would think that they could manufacture the amount of receivers needed for their business, including or anticipating changes in market conditions. They're spending money refurbishing older/defective equipment and sending them back out to subscribers instead of producing larger quantities of newer receivers that people want. Producing more of the newer models will also lower manufacturing costs in the long run so why delay that effort?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rjdude said:


> You would think that they could manufacture the amount of receivers needed for their business, including or anticipating changes in market conditions. They're spending money refurbishing older/defective equipment and sending them back out to subscribers instead of producing larger quantities of newer receivers that people want. Producing more of the newer models will also lower manufacturing costs in the long run so why delay that effort?


I really doubt that the purported "refurbishing" costs them much money at all.

You're using logic skewed to your viewpoint and I agree with you. But D* doesn't use that logic and as long as customers accept the replacement HRs rather than complaining massively, they'll just keep on keepin' on.

Rich


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Manctech said:


> The installers/company that are doing your install have NO control over how much equipment we get delivered.


In what form of good business practice do you depend on equipment showing up during the appointment window to execute an install? Even if they don't order the equipment, the HSP must know how many units they will have available the afternoon before.

Is the equipment failure rate so high that multiple units fail after it is too late to wave off the installation?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> In what form of good business practice do you depend on equipment showing up during the appointment window to execute an install? Even if they don't order the equipment, the HSP must know how many units they will have available the afternoon before.
> 
> Is the equipment failure rate so high that multiple units fail after it is too late to wave off the installation?


Seems as if Apple uses the same business model with their IPhones and IPads, doesn't it? They never seem to realize just how many people want their products.

Rich


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Months in advance, they can look at past history and trending to make a pretty good forecast of how much equipment they'll need per week.
> 
> But even a week before, they can be pretty accurate. If they have orders for 243 HD DVRs to be installed next week, then they know they need 243 HD DVRs. If they have 248 in inventory, then they can take orders for 5 more (or if they're really smart, they'll keep some reserve in inventory for unexpected needs).
> 
> If someone calls and places an order for more than they have in inventory, then they can either decline the order, or schedule it out to when they expect new inventory. If something happens and the new inventory doesn't come in, then DirecTV can cancel or reschedule a week in advance.


There are people who make entire businesses out of logistics .. if it were that simple I don't think we'd be seeing the problems like this one.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> In what form of good business practice do you depend on equipment showing up during the appointment window to execute an install? Even if they don't order the equipment, the HSP must know how many units they will have available the afternoon before.
> 
> Is the equipment failure rate so high that multiple units fail after it is too late to wave off the installation?


The HR24 channel is still being built .. I'd say we are at a period of high demand and low supply. Cost isn't affected in this case (but very well could be if DIRECTV let the least cost fluctuate with demand), but time-to-install is certainly affected as is the ability to get equipment to the right locations in the country.

I don't know that anyone was caught off guard as much as it is just moving the equipment from MFG to consumer. Also with a lack of capacitors and resistors in the world right now, the components that make up the HR24s may simply be slow to arrive. I know at my company we had to scour the world for some parts to get our equipment manufactured and we're making stuff in the 10s of items, not the hundreds of thousands of items.

It definitely doesn't make for a happy situation, but that is true top to bottom. There's no way that either DIRECTV or the installer is happy with this situation.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Seems as if Apple uses the same business model with their IPhones and IPads, doesn't it? They never seem to realize just how many people want their products.
> 
> Rich


The optimal number of parts to make is one more than you actually need. Then you know that you've done as much as you can. I'm sure both Apple and DIRECTV would be happier making more than they could sell, rather than less (within reason of course).


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> The HR24 channel is still being built .. I'd say we are at a period of high demand and low supply.


Just like when the HR20 first came out.

When a company changes hardware you're always going to have a period where you are short on gear. Is it fun? No, but it is the way it is. You can tell when new tv models are coming out when you go into Best Buy and they are low on tv's. Even car dealers are low on cars between model year changes.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> I don't know that anyone was caught off guard as much as it is just moving the equipment from MFG to consumer. Also with a lack of capacitors and resistors in the world right now, the components that make up the HR24s may simply be slow to arrive. I know at my company we had to scour the world for some parts to get our equipment manufactured and we're making stuff in the 10s of items, not the hundreds of thousands of items.


These excuses may play well at the distribution level, but it's no excuse for not telling the customer in advance of an early morning appointment that the hardware isn't available. You can't schedule installation appointments based on delivery of hardware that isn't already boxed and in the domestic distribution channel.

It is important to consider that the problem may not have been satellite equipment related: it may have been a shortage of manpower as a result of someone calling in sick or a vehicular breakdown. In that instance, there should probably be a modicum of slack cut.


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## Striker (Mar 4, 2005)

I feel for the OP. I had an installer confirm my appointment, called ahead, and then showed up empty handed. He told me he never loaded any equipment since the shipment never came in.

So why would this installer go through all the work to show up and then say tough luck? I honestly wonder what goes through the minds of these installers. I mean a bit of common sense would have gone a long way.

So I ended up wasting a half day's worth of work. All the installer had to do was call me in the morning and say he has to reschedule due to an equipment shortage. I would have been perfectly fine with it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> These excuses may play well at the distribution level, but it's no excuse for not telling the customer in advance of an early morning appointment that the hardware isn't available. You can't schedule installation appointments based on delivery of hardware that isn't already boxed and in the domestic distribution channel.
> 
> It is important to consider that the problem may not have been satellite equipment related: it may have been a shortage of manpower as a result of someone calling in sick or a vehicular breakdown. In that instance, there should probably be a modicum of slack cut.


All I know is that if it were easy then this wouldn't be happening so much now. Even the scheduling of appointments is based on some sort of predetermined scheduling that is likely adjusted over time, but has trouble when supplies get low. Odds are there is a presumption (for normal day-to-day operation) that supply is infinite. Clearly that's not the case right now and it's causing these problems

As others have pointed out, an installer call in the morning can go a long way towards making a bad situation not as bad. Don't think that I'm calling this a good situation. In a perfect world, parts should be ready when needed.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> Or perhaps something came up that was not expected such as their ability to offer DNS, which are mpeg 4 only, in some markets or other neighboring markets which are mpeg 4 only. As this was just ruled on by the FCC they couldn't have anticipated this. Add this with a large take rate of MRV and you run into this issue.
> 
> The upside to all of this is atleast more people will be getting the 24 models when they get them in stock.


Just ran across *this*, thought it appropriate to the thread.

Rich


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## john18 (Nov 21, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Just ran across *this*, thought it appropriate to the thread.
> 
> Rich


IMO that site will rot your brain.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Just ran across *this*, thought it appropriate to the thread.
> 
> Rich


Makes ya wonder how much of that decline was people frustrated with the install experience, who just canceled after getting the runaround.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

rich584 said:


> I really doubt that the purported "refurbishing" costs them much money at all.
> 
> You're using logic skewed to your viewpoint and I agree with you. But D* doesn't use that logic and as long as customers accept the replacement HRs rather than complaining massively, they'll just keep on keepin' on.
> 
> Rich


But customers do specify a certain model HR and the CSR will say " I can't guarentee that"

or

if the installer shows up without the "right" HR the customer cancels the order Directv will refuse to create the account if it happens to often.

So I think people are complaining and Directv is not listening.


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## tprkevin (Aug 9, 2010)

I too have been rescheduled, but that is not what started the downhill slide. I ordered on the website. I use a mastercard that is prepaid as I dont like to extend what I dont have, yet I like the convienience of the card.

So I try to use this card for the initial $107 startup cost. It gives an error twice saying, we do not accept gift cards. So I just used another card that went through fine. Low and behold, I get text updates on card activity, DirectTV preauthorized the 2 charges that didn't go through!! So not only did I pay the $107, but another $214 was untouchable for a week due too their mistake. 

I am a civil servent so I dont make buckets of money! Needless to say this was not the best news...I escalated this all the way to the presidents office to get taken care of. The first CSR I talked to refused to transfer to a supervisor, Not good.

So this finally got corrected and then I get the dreaded "we don't have any equipment" call! Are you freakin kiddin me! I am half tempted to write the office of the prez again!


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> Just like when the HR20 first came out.
> 
> When a company changes hardware you're always going to have a period where you are short on gear. Is it fun? No, but it is the way it is. You can tell when new tv models are coming out when you go into Best Buy and they are low on tv's. Even car dealers are low on cars between model year changes.


I think the same supply issue occurred when the HR21 first came out as well. Directv should know by now how to handle this sort of supply issue. Either crank out more units, make no promises on which HDDVR will be supplied (I don't think any such promise was made with the OP's order), or push out install dates so that there is not a crazy mess that installers have to deal with.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

gnahc79 said:


> I think the same supply issue occurred when the HR21 first came out as well. Directv should know by now how to handle this sort of supply issue. Either crank out more units, make no promises on which HDDVR will be supplied (I don't think any such promise was made with the OP's order), or push out install dates so that there is not a crazy mess that installers have to deal with.


The problem is, and it's not just DirecTV, that to introduce a new model you must stop making the old model. You can't continue to make HR23's and start making HR24's at the same time. You can't make the 2010 Camaro at the same time that you make the 2011 Camaro and so on.

The only way to really effectively handle the situation is to stop doing installs when you quit making one model and don't start doing installs again until you have a sufficient supply of new models. Unfortunately this won't work in the world of business.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> The problem is, and it's not just DirecTV, that to introduce a new model you must stop making the old model. You can't continue to make HR23's and start making HR24's at the same time. You can't make the 2010 Camaro at the same time that you make the 2011 Camaro and so on.
> 
> The only way to really effectively handle the situation is to stop doing installs when you quit making one model and don't start doing installs again until you have a sufficient supply of new models. Unfortunately this won't work in the world of business.


Actually you can make two different models of HRs at the same time, as D* has different manufacturers.


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

ATARI said:


> Actually you can make two different models of HRs at the same time, as D* has different manufacturers.


+1

Directv did not release both the HR24-500 and HR24-200 at the same time. It seems like they got the HR24 out asap (for MRV revenue?) and just hoped that both window of time when the supply of HD DVRs dropped and the drop in the # of HD DVRs produced would not be noticeable by customers. Oops.
The solution would be to maintain the supply of the HR21 with one manufacturer (I think that's the one before the HR24) until the HR24 production with another manufacturer can catch up. And no promise of an HR24 to anyone during this initial rollout of HR24s. To get a call on install day and hearing the installer has no HR2x DVRs available is poor planning from Directv.


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## poppin_fresh (Oct 14, 2006)

In my case I have told them numerous times that I am not in a hurry for my install and will gladly wait for 24s to be in stock. Do you think the warehouse supervisor will call me so we can work out an arrangement...yeah right. I keep getting told he will call, but it hasn't happened yet. I don't like wasting peoples time, but when they can't take 5 minutes to call me so we can work it out, I have to shake my head. 

I have my third attempt at an install next week. The woman from the local office said she talked to the manager and he said schedule out a week. He told her they would have my equipment. Since I didn't get to talk to him I'm really hoping I wasn't fed (another) line.


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## whoray85 (Aug 9, 2009)

rich584 said:


> Keep in mind the installers work on Saturdays and Sundays and most holidays.


We work 365 days a year - - although we do try to keep Thanksgiving and Christmas Day limited to urgent Service Calls (SFSS on all receivers)


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

ATARI said:


> Actually you can make two different models of HRs at the same time, as D* has different manufacturers.


But if they stop manufacturing of one model I'm sure they stop it across the board.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

john18 said:


> IMO that site will rot your brain.


I know, but he's right more than he's wrong. I've had some arguments with him from time to time.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom Servo said:


> Makes ya wonder how much of that decline was people frustrated with the install experience, who just canceled after getting the runaround.


I think the economy probably has a lot to do with it. I still see people who are just scraping by.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Joe C said:


> But customers do specify a certain model HR and the CSR will say " I can't guarentee that"
> 
> or
> 
> ...


I think D* listens and doesn't do anything about it. That works as long as "they put fannies in the seats".

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> But if they stop manufacturing of one model I'm sure they stop it across the board.


Yup, I do believe that's what they do. Now they have to dump all the 23s. I'm just waiting for the 24-700 to come out.

Rich


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## gnahc79 (Jan 12, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Yup, I do believe that's what they do. Now they have to dump all the 23s. I'm just waiting for the 24-700 to come out.
> 
> Rich


Wait so for every iteration of the HD DVRs they stop production of the current model for all manufacturers and start production of the new model with only 1-2 manufacturers? Then ramp up production of the new model a few months later with more manufacturers, then within 6-12 months do it all over again? It seems like there's a small window of time where the supply of HD DVRs is reliable.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I have a funny feeling that the HR24 will be the product for the foreseeable future. I think the cycle of HR20-begets-HR21-begets-HR22-begets-HR23 was a learning curve in the creation of the hardware and software, and the subsequent manufacturing, of a DVR. The HR24 is a mature platform. I wouldn't be surprised to find this piece of hardware, with continuing software upgrades, in the line for years. At the worst they will discover a failing in its basic design, which will beget a HR25. That model will then be the standard bearer instead of the HR24. But my bet is on the HR24. Over the past four years, DirecTV has learned how to make a DVR and the result is the HR24.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gnahc79 said:


> Wait so for every iteration of the HD DVRs they stop production of the current model for all manufacturers and start production of the new model with only 1-2 manufacturers? Then ramp up production of the new model a few months later with more manufacturers, then within 6-12 months do it all over again? It seems like there's a small window of time where the supply of HD DVRs is reliable.


Yup. You've got it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> I have a funny feeling that the HR24 will be the product for the foreseeable future. I think the cycle of HR20-begets-HR21-begets-HR22-begets-HR23 was a learning curve in the creation of the hardware and software, and the subsequent manufacturing, of a DVR. The HR24 is a mature platform. I wouldn't be surprised to find this piece of hardware, with continuing software upgrades, in the line for years. At the worst they will discover a failing in its basic design, which will beget a HR25. That model will then be the standard bearer instead of the HR24. But my bet is on the HR24. Over the past four years, DirecTV has learned how to make a DVR and the result is the HR24.


What gets me is that I think they could have done this a whole lot quicker. The 20-700s are still reliable and fast, almost as fast as the 24-500. I really don't understand why they went backwards for such a long period of time and then, suddenly, produced the 24s. Oh, yes I do understand, it was cheaper to make the 21 series and it's all about the money.

Rich


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