# what's more important?



## bjlc

so what's more important? 720 resolution or 1040.. ? or the 120 mg of refresh or 


saying that is plasma better in a high resolution then an LCD.. 


whats' the skinny on this.. 

I want to watch FOOTBALL GREEN BAY PACKER FOOTBALL.. and watching some replays at Walmart.. the feet of the runners disappear.. or pixal out.. 

and since you watch most tv during the winter months, does it really matter that much about buying a plasma?


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## Davenlr

bjlc said:


> so what's more important? 720 resolution or 1040.. ? or the 120 mg of refresh or
> saying that is plasma better in a high resolution then an LCD..
> whats' the skinny on this..
> I want to watch FOOTBALL GREEN BAY PACKER FOOTBALL.. and watching some replays at Walmart.. the feet of the runners disappear.. or pixal out..
> and since you watch most tv during the winter months, does it really matter that much about buying a plasma?


If you are buying an HDTV, you want a minimum of 1920x1080 resolution unless the TV is smaller than 21". Refresh rate of 120hz or higher will allow you to view 1080p/24 movies. All transmitted tv (not internet) will work on any TV 60hz, 120hz, or 240hz.

Plasma has better black levels, however, it uses a LOT more electricity. Which one is up to you and your eyes. Both Plasma and LCD, or LCD with LED backlighting will display the picture much better than the current transmission methods (other than BluRay).

Dont pay any attention to the displays in the store. They are all either torched out to max brightness for effect, or the customers have screwed the controls up. Only way to tell is in your home, so make sure the store has a free return policy if you decide you dont like it.


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## Kevin F

I personally feel that plasmas are better for fast motion sports. I have 1 plasma and 3 LCDs (2 LED).

Kevin


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## bjlc

my room has all windows to the south and west.. yes I have trees.. I live out in the country.. I use a conventional tv.. which has to be as shiney as a plasma.. its a 35 inch sony.. but right now.. with the wide screen bars..on most broadcasts.. I have a 29 inch 16 by 4.. 

I have seen prices for a 50 plus inch plasma for well under $1000 at Wally place discount store.. 

will a plasma use that much more electricity then my old 35 inch? 

where my tv is located now.. and where my plasma would be going, I get little reflection.. for one during the summer, the sun is high and hardly penetrates the room.. during the winter.. its dark here now at 4:30.. or very low light.. in fact the only light that has ever affected my tv comes from a whole other room away.. which can be turned off.. but there would never be direct sunlight at the tv. the back would be toward the sun at almost all times..in the southwest corner of the room.. 

again.. the plasma refresh rate is far superior to an LED tv.. or so it seems.. 

what does Directv broadcast in ? 720 or full hd?


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## Kevin F

They broadcast in whatever the channel sends them. 720 or 1080


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## Stuart Sweet

In an ideal situation you'd want a 4k display, 3840x2160 resolution. That way it could accurately show both 720 and 1080 content with no pixel mapping or scaling. But such displays aren't really here, yet. Until then I highly recommend 1080p/120.


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## Kevin F

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> In an ideal situation you'd want a 4k display, 3840x2160 resolution. That way it could accurately show both 720 and 1080 content with no pixel mapping or scaling. But such displays aren't really here, yet. Until then I highly recommend 1080p/120.


+1


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## bjlc

for football do you perfer Lcd, led or plasma? because for me,, plasma looks a ton cheaper.. its my first 16 :4 ratio tv.. and it needs to last..


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## sigma1914

bjlc said:


> for football do you perfer Lcd, led or plasma? because for me,, plasma looks a ton cheaper.. its my first 16 :4 ratio tv.. and it needs to last..


Do you want cheapness or quality?

I prefer a good plasma. Also, it's 16:9...not 16:4.


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## CCarncross

I highly recommend looking at the current crop of Panasonic Plasmas...they have 3 or 4 model lines of plasmas, I believe the ST30 is the current budget minded set...a current plasma probably uses less power than your old 35" tube tv...a current plasma probably will have a little less glare than your current SD tv as well, but maybe not by a whole lot. You want a 1080p set, I highly recommend something in the 50"-55" range. plasmas have a different type of refresh referred to as 600Hz sub field something or other, great for fast action and sports...many prefer plasma sets to all but the best of the best LCD or LED sets, including myself. Compared to LCD and LED, plasmas tend to run a little warmer and use a little more power, and most weigh a little more when comparing like sizes.


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## Herdfan

I have them all. SXRD, LCD, LCD-LED, DLP, CRT RPTV and plasma. The plasma, even though it is a 720p set that is 5+ years old, has the best picture of all of them. And the SXRD and LCD are Sony XBR units. All are calibrated, but the depth of color from the plasma is just not present in the others. 

The downside, not sure how the newer ones are, is that I have a 400W heater in the living room. Not a problem in the winter, but horrible in the summer. You can feel the heat coming off of it as you walk by.

Now the plasma does have a glossy glass screen and it is HEAVY (140 lbs). But I have no windows behind it, so that is not an issue.

Like has been mentioned, find a retailer that has a return policy and take one home. The best judge, no matter what advice you get here, is you. If you are happy with the picture, then it's all good.


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## CCarncross

Herdfan said:


> The downside, not sure how the newer ones are, is that I have a 400W heater in the living room. Not a problem in the winter, but horrible in the summer. You can feel the heat coming off of it as you walk by.
> 
> Now the plasma does have a glossy glass screen and it is HEAVY (140 lbs). But I have no windows behind it, so that is not an issue.


The two items you mention here have changed a little bit in the last 5 years...in the last few years power consumption has been cut nearly in half for the new plasmas, and I think they weigh less as well.


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## bobukcat

Any of them are going to be light-weights compared to that 35 inch CRT! 

You've stated your primary viewing will be football so buy Plasma. Not only are they cheaper than LED back lit LCDs but they have faster refresh rates with no motion blur and you don't get that crazy video look the LCDs can have when set to 240Hz and displaying movies / TV shows. It's true the LED/LCDs use less power but it would take you a very long time, if ever, to recoup the difference in purchase price from lower electricity bills.


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## mutelight

I have owned numerous LCDs and plasmas and while LCDs, on average, are brighter, plasmas retain motion resolution far better without the need for MCFI. (Looks like the soap opera effect.)

Regarding power, the difference between a LCD and an energy efficient plasma, would be a ~$20-30 across an entire year.

I now have a LCD front projector, 50" Panasonic V10 in the bedroom, and should be receiving my 65" Panasonic VT30 today!


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## FHSPSU67

mutelight said:


> I have owned numerous LCDs and plasmas and while LCDs, on average, are brighter, plasmas retain motion resolution far better without the need for MCFI. (Looks like the soap opera effect.)
> 
> Regarding power, the difference between a LCD and an energy efficient plasma, would be a ~$20-30 across an entire year.
> 
> I now have a LCD front projector, 50" Panasonic V10 in the bedroom, and should be receiving my 65" Panasonic VT30 today!


You will love t!
I have a P65VT25.


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## bobukcat

mutelight said:


> I have owned numerous LCDs and plasmas and while LCDs, on average, are brighter, plasmas retain motion resolution far better without the need for MCFI. (Looks like the soap opera effect.)
> 
> Regarding power, the difference between a LCD and an energy efficient plasma, would be a ~$20-30 across an entire year.
> 
> I now have a LCD front projector, 50" Panasonic V10 in the bedroom, and should be receiving my 65" Panasonic VT30 today!


Just got mine delivered yesterday - haven't had time to do more than just make sure it works yet and it's killing me! Thankfully (pun intended) I'll have some time this weekend to really put it through it's paces. It is replacing a 60" last gen Kuro (which is being moved to a different room) so it has some pretty tough shoes to fill, I hope its up to the challenge!!


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## Laxguy

mutelight said:


> I have owned numerous LCDs and plasmas and while LCDs, on average, are brighter, plasmas retain motion resolution far better without the need for MCFI. (Looks like the soap opera effect.)
> 
> Regarding power, the difference between a LCD and an energy efficient plasma, would be a ~$20-30 across an entire year.
> 
> I now have a LCD front projector, 50" Panasonic V10 in the bedroom, and should be receiving my 65" Panasonic VT30 today!


So, are you having a Superbowl party? I may be a neighbor! :lol:

I love my 58" Sammy plasma, and heat output is small. The Niners are looking especially good on it this year, no motion blur even when Ginn is running in an open field.

In a more serious vein, if the screen is under 40" and has 120MHz or greater refresh rate, an LCD also works fine.


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## Rich

bjlc said:


> for football do you perfer Lcd, led or plasma? because for me,, plasma looks a ton cheaper.. its my first 16 :4 ratio tv.. and it needs to last..


I have seven Panny plasmas. The only LCD that I would consider (if Panasonic went out of the TV business) is a Sony. As far as lasting, Panasonic plasmas should last you damn near forever. They are rated at 42 years of life running 6 hours a day. Never have had a problem with burn in and I've got a 58" set that has games running on it most of the day. The heat can be an issue, but the new sets run a lot cooler than the older ones did.

Rich


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## dettxw

Football looks great on my Samsung 64" plasma.

They use a little more power than LCDs/LEDs but not that much.

Shipping weight on mine was 77 pounds, but the TV itself is much lighter. I have it mounted on a swivel stand which is nice for my shallow room. Got a wall mount kit for when that task works it's way up the to-do list.

The Samsung has a real black filter to keep down reflections, though not a problem anyway at my house.

It's a Smart TV so has integrated apps for those that want that stuff.

If you go LCD watch out for the old 120 Hz refresh rate spec, many cheaper TVs (e.g. Vizio) advertise it but are really just using a doubled 60Hz frame rate and aren't actually capable of supporting 1080p/24 without introducing the 3:2 pulldown jerkiness. 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine)


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## Rich

dettxw said:


> Football looks great on my Samsung 64" plasma.


How long have you had that Sammy? I'd kinda like to try a different brand of plasma. No problems with it at all?

I was in a store with a wall of LCD TVs during the World Cup and the jittering was still noticeable on the 120 Hertz sets. The 240 Hertz sets by Sony had no jittering at all. The worst were the 60 Hertz sets. I've never seen anything like what I saw that day on my plasmas. All the sports, no matter how fast the action is, are perfect on my plasmas.

Rich


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## Laxguy

I've had my Sammies almost exactly two years. 58" Plasma and 32" LCD. Both have been awesome. 

I changed my settings from the default to something or other I think I found on AVR AVS? forum, and haven't really touched it since, until just now, when I looked for Black Filter mentioned earlier. Didn't find it, but I did turn down the gamma, as I view in a darkened- but not dark- room. Also tried the "Blue Only" setting- not at all sure what that's about.


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## Rich

Laxguy said:


> I've had my Sammies almost exactly two years. 58" Plasma and 32" LCD. Both have been awesome.
> 
> I changed my settings from the default to something or other I think I found on AVR AVS? forum, and haven't really touched it since, until just now, when I looked for Black Filter mentioned earlier. Didn't find it, but I did turn down the gamma, as I view in a darkened- but not dark- room. Also tried the "Blue Only" setting- not at all sure what that's about.


I'd like to hear from someone who has tried both the Sammy and Panny plasmas. I'm happy with my Pannys, but I'm gonna buy a 65" set soon and I'd like to hear some opinions from folks that have had both brands.

Rich


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## satcrazy

See AVS forums.

Spent a lot of time there before settling on a panny st50.

So far so good!

No heat issues, No buzz, light in weight [ My wega crt was 165lbs]


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## harsh

Davenlr said:


> Dont pay any attention to the displays in the store. They are all either torched out to max brightness for effect, or the customers have screwed the controls up.


Or as is more commonly the case, they're using a crappy video distribution system.

No TV is going to necessarily cure the problem of some Fox sports programming looking poor. Garbage in, garbage out.


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## harsh

Laxguy said:


> Also tried the "Blue Only" setting- not at all sure what that's about.


The blue only setting is an aid in calibrating the TV for chroma (color) and hue (tint). You set the input device to output color bars and then adjust the color and tint so that the bars are of uniform shade across the boundary between the top bars and the narrow band of bars below them. When you get good at it, you can color calibrate a TV in seconds.

The below link shows how to use color bars and the blue only feature to calibrate your TV:

http://www.videouniversity.com/articles/color-bars-and-how-to-use-em


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## Laxguy

Thanks, h. Very useful. 

-- 
I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met. 
~ Stephen Wright


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## Nick

It is always a good idea to record your current values before screwing around with the settings.


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## Rich

Nick said:


> It is always a good idea to record your current values before screwing around with the settings.


Yup, the Panny plasmas have an option for returning to factory settings. Comes in handy.

Rich


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## mutelight

Laxguy said:


> So, are you having a Superbowl party? I may be a neighbor! :lol:


:lol: You are just across the bay from me.



bobukcat said:


> Just got mine delivered yesterday - haven't had time to do more than just make sure it works yet and it's killing me! Thankfully (pun intended) I'll have some time this weekend to really put it through it's paces. It is replacing a 60" last gen Kuro (which is being moved to a different room) so it has some pretty tough shoes to fill, I hope its up to the challenge!!


I have had mine for a couple weeks now and it is fantastic!



FHSPSU67 said:


> You will love t!
> I have a P65VT25.


I absolutely do, once I got it dialed in, the inky blacks, highly accurate colors, and amazing detail have blown me away!


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## FarmerBob

In some circles it is said that 720p = 1080i. But I prefer DLP all the way!!! My 3 year old Samsung DLP still has the most fantastic picture I have ever seen. But then there are the Mitsubishi LaserVue's!!! They do a magnificent job with any feed. No need for altered refresh rates either, the mirrors move 1000 times faster than LCD doors, that can add all kinds of gunk to the picture. Plus if you go the movies and see the new 4k screenings, they use DLP projectors. And that's one big ass picture.

But know that the principal of high refresh rates is that each time you double the base rate of 60Hz you are adding a fake set generated frame. 
120 = 1 real, 1 fake, 1 real
240 = 1 real, 1 fake, 1 fake, 1 real
480 = 1 real, 1 fake, 1 fake, 1 fake, 1 real . . .


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## Laxguy

Some circles are just wrong! 

And I am sure some would say, instead of "fake", "interpolated" or some other euphemism! 
Hmmm, come to think of it, are those added frames just copies, or are they in fact interpolated?


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## bjlc

okay I was given a polaroid Hd tv.. I just read that color bar adjustment.. how would I get the tv to produce the color bar? I don't have a video camera.. 

and how would I get the blue only ? 

my problem is that the tv is way too contrasty right now.. every thing looks like a fog.. and yet the picture its self is not bright.. any help would be appreciated.. thanks..

bjlc


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## ub1934

harsh said:


> The blue only setting is an aid in calibrating the TV for chroma (color) and hue (tint). You set the input device to output color bars and then adjust the color and tint so that the bars are of uniform shade across the boundary between the top bars and the narrow band of bars below them. When you get good at it, you can color calibrate a TV in seconds.
> 
> The below link shows how to use color bars and the blue only feature to calibrate your TV:
> 
> http://www.videouniversity.com/articles/color-bars-and-how-to-use-em


Nice to see someone who knows the real way to set up chroma & huu


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## MysteryMan

bjlc said:


> okay I was given a polaroid Hd tv.. I just read that color bar adjustment.. how would I get the tv to produce the color bar? I don't have a video camera..
> 
> and how would I get the blue only ?
> 
> my problem is that the tv is way too contrasty right now.. every thing looks like a fog.. and yet the picture its self is not bright.. any help would be appreciated.. thanks..
> 
> bjlc


Try reading the Owners Manual. You can also go to their website for help.


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## mechman

bjlc said:


> okay I was given a polaroid Hd tv.. I just read that color bar adjustment.. how would I get the tv to produce the color bar? I don't have a video camera..
> 
> and how would I get the blue only ?
> 
> my problem is that the tv is way too contrasty right now.. every thing looks like a fog.. and yet the picture its self is not bright.. any help would be appreciated.. thanks..
> 
> bjlc


Not every display has a blue only mode. I'd guess that your's probably doesn't. If you want to set your white (brightness) and black (contrast) levels properly, get the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark disc.


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## bobukcat

mechman said:


> Not every display has a blue only mode. I'd guess that your's probably doesn't. If you want to set your white (brightness) and black (contrast) levels properly, get the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark disc.


That or the Digital Video Essentials BluRay, they both have blue filters you look through to set the brightness, contrast, color, etc. while looking at color bars and other test patterns.


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## bjlc

how fast is the D* refresh rate.. some one told me that no one has a refresh rate over 120 so it doesn't matter.. 

I still am looking for a big screen tv since that 32 inch isn't cutting it in my 32 by 28 living room..


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## MysteryMan

bjlc said:


> how fast is the D* refresh rate.. some one told me that no one has a refresh rate over 120 so it doesn't matter..
> 
> I still am looking for a big screen tv since that 32 inch isn't cutting it in my 32 by 28 living room..


For a room that size you'll want a 55" display or bigger. Various brands come with either 120Hz or 240Hz refresh rates.


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## CCarncross

bjlc said:


> how fast is the D* refresh rate.. some one told me that no one has a refresh rate over 120 so it doesn't matter..
> 
> I still am looking for a big screen tv since that 32 inch isn't cutting it in my 32 by 28 living room..


Broadcast tv is 60Hz.....so technically noone has a refresh rate faster than 60Hz.

Most BD movie disks are 24, while most tv shows on BD are 60Hz...the higher refresh rates are strictly being done by the tv for less flicker, etc....BTW, its sounds like that Polaroid tv that someone gave you is shot


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## harsh

CCarncross said:


> Broadcast tv is 60Hz.....so technically noone has a refresh rate faster than 60Hz.


Most broadcast TV is 30 frames/second.


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## dpeters11

Hz and FPS are two completely different things. I don't think anything is higher than 60hz, even Blu-Ray.


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## harsh

dpeters11 said:


> Hz and FPS are two completely different things. I don't think anything is higher than 60hz, even Blu-Ray.


Two things:

1. There is no difference if we're talking progressive scan
2. Many, (if not most) Blu-rays are 24fps(Hz).


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