# Coupon Fiasco



## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Nothing today can be decoupled from politics.

http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/cristicism-complexity-dtv-converter-plan-0326/?r=1

I'm not planning on being part of the debacle so someone else can have my coupons. Are you planning to apply for STB coupons?

--- CHAS


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## mssturgeon (Dec 8, 2004)

Fiasco? You're declaring it a complete failure before it begins? Do you expect politics to be decoupled from what is largely a government program?

To answer your question, No. I will not be requesting coupons because I do not need them. Although I may be requesting some on behalf of family, friends and relatives who may need one.

- Shane


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Personally, if we are talking about coupons for digital receivers... I think it is a fiasco IF it happens, and a semi-fiasco that they are even talking about doing it.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

All my sets now have an ATSC tuner of some flavor. No coupons for me.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

Mikey said:


> All my sets now have an ATSC tuner of some flavor. No coupons for me.


You don't have an old TV, a VCR, a DVR, or one of those cute little handheld TV sets? Wow!

You musta done a better job of Spring Cleanup than I did.


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## mssturgeon (Dec 8, 2004)

HDMe said:


> Personally, if we are talking about coupons for digital receivers... I think it is a fiasco IF it happens, and a semi-fiasco that they are even talking about doing it.


"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
- Inigo Montoya

In all seriousness, can you please elaborate upon why you think it is a complete failure?

- Shane


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't believe the government should be providing coupons or waivers or money of any kind towards the purchase of set-top boxes. That's why I consider any plan to offer them a "failure" because it is a failure to use common sense and decency and prioritize things properly.

Set-top boxes amount to a luxury item. The only way a person can use a set-top box is if that person has a home to live in, a TV set to connect it to, an antenna of some kind (either indoors or outdoors), and electricity to power the set-top box and the TV. Anyone who has all of these things, can most certainly afford a set-top box and does not need such a thing subsizided.

Consider that there are homeless people who don't know where their next meal will come from... who don't have electricity or TVs or a house and antenna and such... helping them would be a far better use of the money!

Or how about people in need of healthcare that they cannot afford? Or victims of some natural disaster who need help to rebuild?

Providing set-top box vouchers is WAY WAY down the list of things that seem a good thing for tax dollars to be supporting that I consider any execution of a plan to be a huge fiasco as compares to better use of the same money.


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## jimbo09 (Sep 26, 2006)

I don't imagine they'll have too much trouble getting $40 vouchers out. They'll probably have a way to apply for them on-line and by phone. I have D*, so I don't think I'll need them. It would be nice if the vouchers could just go towards the purchase of a new digital TV.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

The Government is afraid someone will miss their next meal, or skip their prescription drugs, in order to buy a converter (actually, without the coupon program, they'll probably have to buy an "HDTV" or "HDTV Box". Doesn't that sound like a "fiasco"?). And, all because "the Government is taking away my television!"

So, it's more of a CYOA thing with them. Same reason why they offer coupons to everybody....they couldn't come up with a politically-neutral way of determining eligibility. Who would qualify? Income level? Social Security recipients? Handicapped? What defines "handicapped"? Retired? Age-based, whether working or not? 

It was too much to handle.

But, is being able to receive TV really a "luxury item"? We're not talking about HDTV here. We're talking about the only form of mass communication many people have available to them. It's how they get their news. It's how they stay informed in an emergency. It's how they keep awake, in some cases, when they have no family, few friends, and no money for other things. It's how some housebound people stay sane.

Would any political party dare take that away?


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Coupons or not, IMO, the looming cut-off of analog tv will have a much greater
impact on the general public than Y2K. Confusion will reign among the technically
unsophisticated and phone lines will be jammed with the clueless trying to find
out if the world is coming to an end. 

Sadly, those so affected will turn to their OTA tv sets to find out what's happening.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Nick said:


> Coupons or not, IMO, the looming cut-off of analog tv will have a much greater
> impact on the general public than Y2K. Confusion will reign among the technically
> unsophisticated and phone lines will be jammed with the clueless trying to find
> out if the world is coming to an end.
> ...


Solution: cut off analog phone lines too.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

The coupons are very limited in what they can be used for.

The tuner can have no type of integrated video display or recording capability (no DVR's qualify) and cannot have HDMI, DVI, Component, VGA, firewire, ethernet or wireless internet outputs.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Does everyone have one? Can everyone afford one?

If people are going to need $40 vouchers from the government to be able to watch TV, then I have to think the answer is yes, TV is a luxury.

It is just a huge waste of tax dollars (not the only huge waste mind you, but the only one relevant to this thread) to spend all that money on converter boxes.

When they first started TV, people weren't given vouchers from the government... no vouchers for color TV either... No vouchers for radio, or for FM radio back in the day either... and there was certainly a time you could have said people "need" radio to get their news.

Before radio & TV, there were no government vouchers to ensure everyone got a newspaper to stay in tough were there?

TV, like radio, and newspapers and magazines and the like... are luxury items. Not luxury like a diamond necklace... but luxury in that they are not required and not a basic need like food & shelter are considered.

And I still keep coming back to the fact that we have people living on the streets and going without meals, but our government thinks people will "need" TV? Let people figure it out for themselved. The market will generate a demand for digital converters and the price will settle to an affordable point for most.

"But what about rural or older people, how will they know what happened when analog is cutoff"? How will they know with a voucher? They still will have to go into town to buy a converter with or without a voucher... Can you honestly say these folks will just sit there dumbfounded and do nothing? IF so, then sending them a voucher isn't going to get them off the couch either AND that lack of motivation is further proof that they didn't "need" their TV that much.

When those same rural or old people run out of food, they go to the store or find someone to go for them... I'm sure they will figure out how to get their TV working again if it is that important to them.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

I need my TV it is a life must:dance07:


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## mssturgeon (Dec 8, 2004)

HDMe said:


> It is just a huge waste of tax dollars (not the only huge waste mind you, but the only one relevant to this thread) to spend all that money on converter boxes.


I believe you have misunderstood the program. In the end, no tax dollars are involved. In fact, it is overwhelmingly the opposite. The money for the coupon program and its administration are coming from the NTIA as an advance on the revenue to be generated by selling the old analog spectrum. Estimates are that between 10 and 70 billion dollars are to be made from its sale, and they have allotted a mere 1.5 billion dollars for the converter box program. And this is all money that would have never existed if the transition had never taken place.

Look at it as a government investment, not just another public program.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2005/12/to_subsidize_or.php

- Shane Sturgeon


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

And since the old analog spectrum belongs to the people, the voucher is their share of the proceeds for something being taken from them. Those who can afford something better apparently get nothing.


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

If you believe the radio waves belong to the people, try setting up your own 50 KW station and watch what happens


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

What the government means by "the people" and what "the people" think it means are two very different animals.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

leww37334 said:


> If you believe the radio waves belong to the people, try setting up your own 50 KW station and watch what happens


That's sort of a bad example... because the airwaves belong to ALL the people... so I might want to setup a 50KW station in my backyard but my neighbors might not want me to use the airwaves that go across their yard... and since you can't control it that way... there kind of has to be a public consensus (which is where we get to the FCC) to govern how the public airwaves are used.

Otherwise everyone could setup a transmitter in their backyard and no one would be able to pickup anything as it would all interfere.


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## jimmyv2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Maybe CAPTIAN MIDNIGHT will hijack a frequency or 2 after the 2009 deadline.
Remember the movie?


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## brantlew (Mar 19, 2007)

My only complaint is the distribution method because it prevents the market from setting the price of these items through good-old market competition. All of the manufacturers will strive to manufacture the cheapest product possible but every one of them will set the price to a minimum of $40 to scoop up the full coupon value - so in effect the government is subsidizing the manufacturers pocketbooks. Think in 2 years how cheap the basic ATSC tuner hardware will have become but the retail price is already fixed by the govt. The manufacturers stand to make a killing on this deal.

I'm not sure what the best solution is - maybe the government should have companies compete for the contract and then only that device would be free to anyone who applied for it. Think how aggressively the companies would compete on price to get this monopoly? Of course the quality of the end result might suffer - but it would serve the needs of the poor, save the taxpayers a bundle, and consumers would always have the option of going out and buying a quality one. And the ones in retail would be priced according to the market - not capped at $40.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

I finished my 1040 form a few days ago. There was a credit for some telephone tax. Instead of all of this coupon nonsense, why not give every taxpayer a $40 DTV tax credit? If your tax liability is zero, you file for a $40 refund. 

--- CHAS


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