# DirecTV's LEASING Plan (Effective 3/1/2006)



## DRSForLife (Feb 27, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> A $300 up front fee for leasing "Advanced Technology" equipment pretty much equates to the current equipment purchase price. But you can't turn around and sell it if you cancel. You could be out some $$$.


Looking at the new pricing for equipment,

*Leasing equipment* ------- *Owning equipment*
DVR - $99 --------------------------- $349
HD - $ 99 ---------------------------- $ 349
HDDVR - $499 ----------------------- $ 749

I think I'd rather lease, because at least with leasing, if something goes wrong, I can get a replacement at no cost, where as owning, if I don't have the Protection Plan, I'm stuck buying another one at the same cost.

Earlier in the forum, someone asked about the Protection Plan. The new leasing model only covers the receiver itself. If you don't have the Protection Plan, you would still be responsible for the remote control or for service calls for technical reasons, so if I were you, I'd still keep the Protection Plan even if you leased your equipment.


----------



## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

If you get DTV's protection plan ($7.99/month for advanced receivers, including DVRs) then you get the same protection as the leasing plan. The prices you posted for owning equipment is a bit skewed, IMO. You can buy brand new DTivos for $99 or less, even without any rebates attached. HDTivos and receivers vary all over the place if you look on ebay, even for new equipment.


----------



## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

captain_video said:


> The prices you posted for owning equipment is a bit skewed, IMO. You can buy brand new DTivos for $99 or less, even without any rebates attached. HDTivos and receivers vary all over the place if you look on ebay, even for new equipment.


Not as of 3/1. The prices posted are correct, for equipment ordered through D* and it's authorized dealers.
The lower prices are available under the lease program with a contract.
The higher prices ($349, $749) are for owned equipment with no contract.


----------



## sharpmibo (Mar 1, 2006)

Spoke with D* yesterday to get details on leasing a H10-250. Since I have already used my $200 rebate on a H20 I am only eligable for a $100 rebate. This means a cost of $499 plus the lease fees. Seems like same price as before but now I don't own the equipment. When I asked what will happen when the new HD-DVR comes, was told there would be an upgrade fee but not given an amount. 

My city area has very limited HD content from cable so I am stuck, but not happy.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

This thread will serve as a focal point for discussion of the LEASING plan, post 3/1/2006


----------



## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

Even though local HD service is not yet available in my locale, I called the D* HD line yesterday to enquire about the H20. The CSR tried to convince me to wait until the 2nd generation KuKa dish is available which, she said, should be about the time my HD locals are available. At that time, she said, there should be large discounts on this service. (I'll believe it when I see it.)

Anyhow, the point is that the CSR actively tried to get me to wait on the purchase of the H20. 

So, what happened? Yesterday D* advertised the H20 + multisat dish on their website for $49, and to day the lease price is listed at $99 (with no rebate). In other words, the price doubled overnight. Thank goodness I purchased an H20 at CC a couple days ago just in case something like this happened!


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I am sure if you insisted... they would have leased it to you.

Probably part of it is, they know the Slimline dish is on the way. It is probably cheaper for them to produce and install a SlimLine dish.

IMHO, one of the sideeffects of this, is that the CSRs will hopefully be more informed of the next technologies in the pipeline, and will help their customers make a better more informed choice.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

No doubt because of limited production runs on the CC web site:

Note: DIRECTV® services sold separately. A maximum of six (6) receivers may be leased per year, but not more than two (2) DVR receivers, two (2) HD receivers and one (1) HD DVR receiver may by leased in a given year. A separate monthly equipment leasing fee of $4.99 applies.

So i hope no one has a need for more than one HD dvr


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I have an hunch that there will be exceptions to that rule.

XYX customer calls up and says... I need three HD-DVRs.
Sorry, you will have to get them over the next three years.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

I'm betting the exceptions are made depending how many hearts you have


----------



## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

DRSForLife said:


> Looking at the new pricing for equipment,
> 
> *Leasing equipment* ------- *Owning equipment*
> DVR - $99 --------------------------- $349
> ...


$499 to lease a HD-DVR..? Wow, that's expensive...that's $200 more up front than Dish for their HD-DVR...are we sure that number is right..? That seems awfully high just to lease an STB...DirecTV is certainly not going to compete with cable at that price...and how are they going to be competitive with Dish with a $200 higher price..?


----------



## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

keenan said:


> $499 to lease a HD-DVR..? Wow, that's expensive...that's $200 more up front than Dish for their HD-DVR...are we sure that number is right..? That seems awfully high just to lease an STB...DirecTV is certainly not going to compete with cable at that price...and how are they going to be competitive with Dish with a $200 higher price..?


That price is right.

They've been competing with E* with that higher price for quite some time, and were selling so fast they can barely keep them in stock.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

And they'll sell even faster as the HR20 release approaches


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Any odds on the fact the existing production of HR10-250s will sell out way before the HR20-250 is released?


----------



## YankeeFan (Jan 31, 2006)

DRSForLife said:


> Looking at the new pricing for equipment,
> 
> *Leasing equipment* ------- *Owning equipment*
> DVR - $99 --------------------------- $349
> ...


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

What's it cost (up front and monthly) to lease an HD DVR from a cable company or Dish?


----------



## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I paid $ 199 for my H20 at best buy.maybe you should just buy your own stuff.and not lease (which I didn't even know Directv does.)I 've been a member for 6 years and i have every receiver I've had since.I signed a 1 year agreement when I first started.I can switch to Cable,Dish Network,or whatever.and sell all my stuff on Ebay,and owe Directv nothing.If you want a rebate then your locked in for 2 years.


----------



## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Kheldar said:


> That price is right.
> 
> They've been competing with E* with that higher price for quite some time, and were selling so fast they can barely keep them in stock.


That $499 price is to lease, not own, as it was in the past. IOW, you now pay the same price to lease the HR10-250 as you did to own it in the past. Great deal..


----------



## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> What's it cost (up front and monthly) to lease an HD DVR from a cable company or Dish?


From Comcast there is zero up front cost and only $9.95 per month. With Dish, it's $299 to lease with a $5.95 per month lease fee.

Hey, if DirecTV can get that out of people, more power to them, but I can't see how they will be competitive with Dish and cable at those prices.


----------



## Rickster (Feb 18, 2006)

More fine print info>>

*If you subcribe to a service like HD or DVR and change your mind,or cancel
with the new lease, you have to return the equipment*

I say this as I WAS going to buy a H20, by Feb end, activate the HD, get to $200 rebate, get my free three months of HD, { but commit to 2 years TC+] then cancel and hold on to it for future use

but never had good luck gambling>with Powerball> Megamillions and now D*


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

keenan said:


> From Comcast there is zero up front cost and only $9.95 per month. With Dish, it's $299 to lease with a $5.95 per month lease fee.
> 
> Hey, if DirecTV can get that out of people, more power to them, but I can't see how they will be competitive with Dish and cable at those prices.


$499 up front AND a 2 year commitment. I'm guessing here March will be a very slow new sales month.


----------



## John Duncan Yoyo (Nov 22, 2005)

damondlt said:


> I paid $ 199 for my H20 at best buy.maybe you should just buy your own stuff.and not lease (which I didn't even know Directv does.)


The Leasing stuff just started today. You got lucky with timing.


----------



## kay (Nov 27, 2005)

Thankfully I got my HR10-250 a long time back!


----------



## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

I bought a 2nd HD DVR On the 28th, I activated it about 2 hrs before the new lease program started. I didnt qualify for the rebates because I already got the rebates before. But rep gave me a $100 credit on my acct.


----------



## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

DRSForLife said:


> Looking at the new pricing for equipment,
> 
> *Leasing equipment* ------- *Owning equipment*
> DVR - $99 --------------------------- $349
> ...


FWIW, there is a $100 instant online rebate (currently available through 7/1/06) for HD and HD-DVR purchases, but it looks like this is for new customers only....

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/hdrebate_prosp.html


----------



## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

I understand that you can still purchase equipment at higher prices than the lease plan up-front cost, so how will D* distinguish between lease and purchase going forward? And if purchase is still possible, if you know, what retailers are selling equipment or is it purchase from D* only? CC and WM are said to be lease only. Weaknees selling or leasing?


----------



## dan8379 (Feb 13, 2006)

I was in Circuit City today and they are still selling receivers. However, I noticed that they no longer are offering rebates. The H20 is $99, and the HD-DVR is $499, neither one was showing the rebate that they previously had.


----------



## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

CC supposedly went to lease plan, see their website. Maybe the store personnel don't know about it yet.


----------



## robk (Mar 3, 2006)

I'm sorry maybe i am just stupid, but why do you have to pay to lease something? I could see a small fee, but i have to spend 500 bucks not to own something, could someone please explain what my benefit is? and dont tell me i can get a replacement if it breaks..


----------



## sheepishlion (Dec 4, 2005)

robk said:


> I'm sorry maybe i am just stupid, but why do you have to pay to lease something? I could see a small fee, but i have to spend 500 bucks not to own something, could someone please explain what my benefit is? and dont tell me i can get a replacement if it breaks..


As far as leasing receivers goes, there are some advantages. The first being the one you already mentioned, the replacement receivers.

The second is the upgrades. You mentioned the $500 for the HD-DVR, if you were to get that now, you would get the HR10-250, which is only MPEG-2, so when the HR20 (MPEG-4) comes out in a few months, D* would upgrade you for free to the HR20. (This is what I understood from the training that we received for leasing. There has yet been anything given to CSR's that specifically say that we can upgrade to a newer model at no cost, nor how to do it. That doesn't mean it won't happen. The training that we had specifically said this would be a great option for people who have to have the top of the line technology.) I don't know if they would upgrade the dish at no cost under the lease program, but from what I have heard here on the forums is that most areas are supposed to be installing the Ka-Ku dish with any HD install anyways.

A third reason is lower up front cost for the receivers. Yes I know it is about the same price as it was before 3/1. Compared to the purchase option you have now, it is cheaper than the $749. You also get one $100 mail in rebate for advanced products per year, and the leasing comes with a 2 year commitment. If you do purchase instead of leasing , there is no commitment because you are not receiving any sort of discount.

If anyone else can think of any advantages, please feel free to add them.


----------



## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

If my option is to keep owning my HR10-250 vs. trading it in to lease an MPEG4 compatible receiver for "free", I'll keep the Tivo and skip the extra programming. I already get the nets OTA and if and when I switch to another provider, I can still sell my Tivo on E-Bay (providing they don't go the E* route and not allow any HD programming on "legacy" receivers).


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

robk said:


> I'm sorry maybe i am just stupid, but why do you have to pay to lease something? I could see a small fee, but i have to spend 500 bucks not to own something, could someone please explain what my benefit is? and dont tell me i can get a replacement if it breaks..


Ah but you get to pay up front to lease the equipment AND you make a two year commitment. Compare that to cable, no up front and no commitment. DTV will have some lean months until this get's ironed out.


----------



## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

Or to Dish... lower "lease upgrade fees" and no commitment... unless you opt-in and receive a $49 credit.

DirecTv's numbers have been stagnant for a while... and Dish Network has been closing in on them in market share, this retarded "strategy" for HD will only make that more likely.

In fact I am one of the recent defections... I was a customer for 10 years and converted as many of my friends/family as I could because of my hate for the local cable company, but I recently moved and rather than take DirecTV with me, I decided to try out Dish, and so far I am VERY happy with that decision.


----------



## ETCal (Jan 18, 2006)

Here's what I found today, March 4th: Costco is now selling the HD TiVo for $430 with no rebate. I called DirecTV and they wouldn't give me a rebate either (I'm already a customer).

Last week I bought an HD TiVo at Costco for $550- $200 rebate. Net cost: $350, or $80 less than the lease price. Plus I also got about $100 in programming credits, for a net net cost of $250.

Difference is that if you now lease an HD TiVo, they'll give you free installation; I don't need any installation. I installed it myself.

DirecTV also said that each store that continues to sell these boxes determines if they're selling them outright or taking part in the leasing program.


----------



## vurbano (May 15, 2004)

excuse the cross post but this is where it belongs:

This is what Im seeing for someone that cancels after a month under the new lease program with a new HR10-250 with info gathered by LonghornXP at satelliteguys.com. The matter is currently being reviewed by the Florida AG.

$499 HD DVR reciever upfront lease charge + monthly lease fee
$300 programming termination fee.
-$12.50 (credit for 1 month service)
if you send the reciever back you are out $786.50 bucks and have nothing to show for it

If you keep the reciever:
$499 HD DVR reciever upfront lease charge + monthly lease fee
+ $300 programming termination fee.
+ $470 D* charge for not returning the reciever, and this does NOT dissappear after 2 years
- $12.5 (credit for 1 month service)
= $1256.50 and they can charge you with grand theft according to longhorn's sources




before 2/28 I could get an Hr10-250 off ebay new for around $450 - $200 rebate = $250 dollars with the $300 cancellation fee for a cost of $550 - 12.5 = $537.5 dollars if I cancelled after one month correct? So overnight D* has decided to screw us out of another $700 dollars. 

In short to answer the original poster, it benifits D* by extracting an ADDITIONAL 700 dollars from every new HDtivo owner that cancels service.


----------



## dan8379 (Feb 13, 2006)

Just playing the Devil's Advocate a bit here, but is this really any different from leasing a car? I realize that a car and a satellite receiver aren't the same thing, but the model seems the same. If you terminate a car lease early, you have to pay off what you owed on the lease and you have to return the car. You also forfeit any down payment that was made. I guess if you don't like the lease model you can just pay the extra $300 up front for the HD DVR and own it outright. What I've read is that if you own it you don't have to pay the monthly lease fee on that unit (hopefully this is the case), but you would have to pay on additional receivers that you have. 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pay $5 or $10 month with no up front cost and no commitment for a state of the art HD DVR, but I also understand why D* isn't offering that.


----------



## fastep (Mar 6, 2006)

keenan said:


> From Comcast there is zero up front cost and only $9.95 per month. With Dish, it's $299 to lease with a $5.95 per month lease fee.
> 
> Hey, if DirecTV can get that out of people, more power to them, but I can't see how they will be competitive with Dish and cable at those prices.


I think the problem is that many DTV customers have a pre-conceived notion about cable and DISH based on cable pq in 1988 and prior DISH dvr problems.

I gave Comcast a try and am very happy with their HD DVR and service.

I recommend to all DTV customers: give HD cable or new dish vip622 a shot. You can cancel with either co if you don't like it and installation should be free. With most cablecos you can cancel at anytime and I believe Dish has no contract with good credit. When I spoke with dish recently, I was told if I did not like the 622 I could send it back at their expense and get a full refund of the $299 upfront lease fee.


----------



## ajseagles3 (Feb 17, 2006)

I liked cable just fine, actually. I got D* for the Sunday Ticket, and that's pretty much it.


----------



## Rickster (Feb 18, 2006)

dan8379 said:


> What I've read is that if you own it you don't have to pay the monthly lease fee on that unit (hopefully this is the case), but you would have to pay on additional receivers that you have.


According to the changeout offer, you do still pay a lease fee on one you own [or what use to be known as "additional reciever fee">>So yes you are correct, still a fee

I also talked to a knowledgeable BB csr this weekend
He said under the old policy [pre2/28} Stores used to buy thier hardware from D* and if they sold a pkg, they would get a kick back from D*

NOW,under the lease program they still buy the hardware, but when a sale is made, D* reimburses them for the agreed upon cost of the hdw

He also confirmed that some stores that have not agreed upon the NEW policy agreement with D*, can sell the equipment at whatever they want but there will be no cashback to them

When asked if it is "owned" he said you have 30 days or until March 30 to activate it or be subject to a fee. He also said this is a way for D* to know if it was owned hdw or leased [because after 30 almost all would be leased]

He also said the only other way around "owned" was if you could prove it was yours and/or previously activated, but maybe not used lately
RC


----------



## Rickster (Feb 18, 2006)

*WORD _PLAY*

A word that has been used frequently in this industry and on most sites is

*CHURN*
A issue that providers have that create too frequent turnover rates for subcribers that can easily drop hardware and programming, therefore reducing providers profit. :nono2:

Well, with the advant of D*'s new leasing program and their efforts to reduce "churn", They may have inadvertantly created a new catch phrase word for themselves.:eek2:

*CHUM* [Most who are into fishing should be familar with this word]

A manner of "attracting" prospective interested parties, with the intent to drag on board, with very slim chances or a fair release.

Based upon the opinons of many posters, here and abroad, it seems to be pretty acurate, eh? 
I quess the true test will be the next qtr's figures on new Sub's.


----------



## Stevies3 (Jul 22, 2004)

If the equipment is leased, Is the warranty still the same as befor (90 Days) or can you change out your box anytime you need to. With cable, You can change out your equipment anytime you need to (for the most part) I currently lease my cable modem & any time they make an upgrade or carry a new & improved modem I usualy swap out the modem with no hassle. Steven


----------



## lumstruck (Mar 9, 2006)

Stevies3 said:


> If the equipment is leased, Is the warranty still the same as befor (90 Days) or can you change out your box anytime you need to. With cable, You can change out your equipment anytime you need to (for the most part) I currently lease my cable modem & any time they make an upgrade or carry a new & improved modem I usualy swap out the modem with no hassle. Steven


If the equipment is leased your "warranty" goes as long as you lease. On the other hand, if you send back equipment when you terminate service and it is not operational they will charge you for the receiver, the same as if you didn't return it at all. Since anything could happen in shipment, this seems risky with a HD/DVR. The whole lease push s#cks. :nono: 
It's main purpose it to put DirecTV into the black on their end of year financials. They can now add all the "leased" equipment to their bottom line as owned and it should help them turn black...


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

lumstruck said:


> If the equipment is leased your "warranty" goes as long as you lease. On the other hand, if you send back equipment when you terminate service and it is not operational they will charge you for the receiver, the same as if you didn't return it at all. Since anything could happen in shipment, this seems risky with a HD/DVR. The whole lease push s#cks. :nono:
> It's main purpose it to put DirecTV into the black on their end of year financials. They can now add all the "leased" equipment to their bottom line as owned and it should help them turn black...


Hate to tell you, but.........D* made 1.5 billion last year in operating profit. I don't think most of the people here give them enough credit for knowing their business. They also added 1.2 million new subscribers last year. They have millions more subs than DISH does.


----------



## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

Anyone know the current subscriber count for D* and E*? I thought E* was adding subs at a greater rate than D*.


----------



## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

HDImpatient said:


> ... They have millions more subs than DISH does.


I searched around on Yahoo finance and D* has 13.9 million subs and E* has 11.23 million, so it's closer than you think and E* is adding at a faster rate. I don't get it, I tried E* and it sucks.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Well DTV is about to take it in the tank for new subs with this "pay for the unit up front and commit to 24 months" new "lease" program. I cannot imagine anyone with half a brain is going for this over E* or cable.

I'm sure there are already meetings being held and marketing folks being held accountable for this mess.

I'll bet by the end of April we will see a different DTV lease program.

SD DVR: Up front nothing. Monthly lease $10.99.
HD DVR: Up front $200. Monthly lease $15.99.

Committment, 12 months.


----------



## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

hiker said:


> I searched around on Yahoo finance and D* has 13.9 million subs and E* has 11.23 million, so it's closer than you think and E* is adding at a faster rate. I don't get it, I tried E* and it sucks.


The last I heard, D* has over 15 million subs and E* has around 13 million... but I could be off a bit.


----------



## dan8379 (Feb 13, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Well DTV is about to take it in the tank for new subs with this "pay for the unit up front and commit to 24 months" new "lease" program. I cannot imagine anyone with half a brain is going for this over E* or cable.
> 
> I'm sure there are already meetings being held and marketing folks being held accountable for this mess.
> 
> ...


If it were $15.99/month for the HD DVR I'd like to think that the up front cost would be less. Heck, 2 years at $15.99/month is nearly $385. That means that after 2 years you'd have invested nearly $600. The model we're currently hearing about ($499 up front, no lease fee for the first unit) would be better than that. I think something like $100 or $150 up front and then $9.99/month would be much more acceptable to most.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Well DTV is about to take it in the tank for new subs with this "pay for the unit up front and commit to 24 months" new "lease" program. I cannot imagine anyone with half a brain is going for this over E* or cable.
> 
> I'm sure there are already meetings being held and marketing folks being held accountable for this mess.
> 
> ...


For new customers (which is what you mention in your first sentence), SD DVR is FREE after rebate and $5.99 month for 24 months (total $143.76 or $5.99 month) - the way you would lease it would be a grand total of $11.88 cheaper, but with 12 months LESS service (12 X $10.99 = $131.88 or $10.99 month) - if you keep it 2 years your total cost is way higher under YOUR idea ($ total $263.76 or $120 more than the currentl offer). For the HD DVR for new customers it is $399 upfront (after rebate) and 24X$5.99 for a total of $542.76 (22.16 per month for 24 months) - your plan would be $200 up front and 12X$15.99 for a total of $391.88 ($32.65 per month for 12 months) under your plan a sub keeping for 2 years would pay MORE ($15.99X24 = $583.76). Both CURRENT plans are far less expensive on a monthly basis over their terms. I see this as MORE attractive to new customers than your plan. A 24 month committment for the average Joe (who doesn't change much of anything every 2 years is perfect). They clearly stated that churn was a huge concern, thus the longer comittment. They are not really looking to install free dishes, wire houses for FREE, give FREE equipment - then have the person walk in a year.

How much of a bet on the end of April thing?

Oh and by the way - have you changed to DISH or cable yet (I'm assuming you have at least half a brain)?


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

HDImpatient said:


> Oh and by the way - have you changed to DISH or cable yet (I'm assuming you have at least half a brain)?


I'm an existing customer, been so since '97. I've got 7 DVRs active and own them. The "half a brain" comment was referring to new customers, just as you mentioned.

If I were not a customer, and given the fact the DTV DVR is not a Tivo anymore, I'd start with cable. Low or nothing up front and no commitment.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

hiker said:


> I searched around on Yahoo finance and D* has 13.9 million subs and E* has 11.23 million, so it's closer than you think and E* is adding at a faster rate. I don't get it, I tried E* and it sucks.


DirecTV ended 2005 with 15.1 million according to their webcast. Echostar on its website is saying over 12 million. That's about a 20% difference, and at my guess of $50 per month per subscriber thats about $150 million a month (1.2 billion a year) in revenue. Sounds to me like its pretty substantial.

Also, I do know that in the NY marker (#1 DMA), DirecTV has over twice the number of subs. This is the most lucrative market, and one of the highest revenue per sub DMAs. I believe that this can be credited mostly to the non-carriage of the YES Network by DISH. And for the life of me - that is one I can't figure out. It's only going to favor DirecTV more now if DISH doesn't put on SportsNet New York for the NY Mets fans.

There are lots of reasons how individuals choose their service, but sports is a huge one. That's why DirecTV has exclusives on NFL, ESPN March madness, and offers the NY baseball RSNs.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I'm an existing customer, been so since '97. I've got 7 DVRs active and own them. The "half a brain" comment was referring to new customers, just as you mentioned.
> 
> If I were not a customer, and given the fact the DTV DVR is not a Tivo anymore, I'd start with cable. Low or nothing up front and no commitment.


Please don't take this personally - but I notice that your posts make many untrue statements (such as the one about dealers supposed to charge $799 for HD DVR).

You also posted 'YOUR' idea of what the lease plan should be - but in both cases the monthly average cost is HIGHER than what is NOW offered. You should re-read and think about what you say before you post these things.

Your comment here about going to cable if you were a new sub is right for you I guess. But what you don't seem to include is that for many it is NOT a cost factor. For many it is a programming factor. If you want the NFL - you CAN'T get it on cable or DISH for ANY price. I own a business, I am not close to being the cheapest - I am one of the most successful though - even at a higher price. If cost was the only factor that people took into consideration - BMW, Mercedes, etc. would all be out of business.

Stop making this all into being a price issue. It is only a PIECE of the puzzle. In the other forums on this site, I am reading about people that spend tens of thousands on home theatre and the like (they surely can get them cheaper).

As we debate this today, I am confident in my opinion that well over 95% of the current DirecTV sub base is NOT EVEN aware of ANY change. For a new potential subscriber going into BB or CC, they can get a 4 room system with HD receiver or SD DVR for FREE including installation and lots of upfront credits and free programming - they won't be paying any more or any less than cable. Most people don't look to change their service every 12 months either.

I still think you are not giving D* enough credit, I just have to believe they did plenty of market research and study before they adopted this new plan.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

HDImpatient said:


> Please don't take this personally - but I notice that your posts make many untrue statements (such as the one about dealers supposed to charge $799 for HD DVR).


There were no "statements" being made, either true or untrue. I never said dealers/retailers were suppose to charge $799. In another thread I gave an example of possible poor communications within the dealer/retailer community regarding the new program and used a figure of $799 in that example. That same figure has been mentioned over and over in multiple threads by multiple members since word of the lease program was announced. I simply repeated that figure. Please let me know the many other "untruths" I have made in my posts so I can clarify those also.

I have no plans on debating DTV's lease program. Everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinions.

Also, for everyone, the "sample" figures I listed above were also with a "sample" 12 month commitment, not 24.

I will summarize. *"I"* believe DTV's new program includes up front costs that are too high. *"I"* also believe a 24 month commitment is too long given the up front costs. Just *"MY"* opinion.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> There were no "statements" being made, either true or untrue. I never said dealers/retailers were suppose to charge $799. In another thread I gave an example of possible poor communications within the dealer/retailer community regarding the new program and used a figure of $799 in that example. That same figure has been mentioned over and over in multiple threads by multiple members since word of the lease program was announced. I simply repeated that figure. Please let me know the many other "untruths" I have made in my posts so I can clarify those also.
> 
> I have no plans on debating DTV's lease program. Everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinions.
> 
> ...


Another mis-statement. Here is a C&P of that previous post of yours:
*As I understand it if I get a HR10 from DTV I pay $499 and lease. If I get one from a retailer and pay $799 I own it. Now, I think where the confusion is coming from is that retailers are still selling their units for $499. Maybe not all retailers have gotten the word they should be charging $799 or maybe the retailers are clearing their shelves.*

Did you not write "Maybe not all retailers have gotten the word that they SHOULD BE CHARGING $799?


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

HDImpatient said:


> Another mis-statement. Here is a C&P of that previous post of yours:
> *As I understand it if I get a HR10 from DTV I pay $499 and lease. If I get one from a retailer and pay $799 I own it. Now, I think where the confusion is coming from is that retailers are still selling their units for $499. Maybe not all retailers have gotten the word they should be charging $799 or maybe the retailers are clearing their shelves.*
> 
> Did you not write "Maybe not all retailers have gotten the word that they SHOULD BE CHARGING $799?


I'm sorry. I am wrong!!! I somehow gave some the impression that dealers/retailers were being forced by DTV to sell the HR10-250 at a fixed price of $799. I had no intention of providing this false information. I have no direct knowledge of the communications between DTV and it's dealers/retailers and have thus misled this forum.

I apologize to all members of DBSTalk.com for this untruth and the many other untruths I have forced upon your eyes. Please forgive me.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Hey wolf - ok - its just that here AND in that other thread (please take a moment and re-read your first post there) - you blasted someone for giving an opinion, and told him he was wrong. Now you already later in that thread told him you see he never said you couldn't purchase, and now you see that you mis-quoted the price. No big deal, but I got to tell you that you come off way to strong for me (and some others). Even your 'apology' is a little over the top.

I welcome your opinions - you need to be more gracious of other peoples' opinions also.

Let's all just have a friendly discussion for a change.


----------



## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

HDImpatient said:


> Hey wolf - ok - its just that here AND in that other thread (please take a moment and re-read your first post there) - you blasted someone for giving an opinion, and told him he was wrong. Now you already later in that thread told him you see he never said you couldn't purchase, and now you see that you mis-quoted the price. No big deal, but I got to tell you that you come off way to strong for me (and some others). Even your 'apology' is a little over the top.
> 
> I welcome your opinions - you need to be more gracious of other peoples' opinions also.
> 
> Let's all just have a friendly discussion for a change.


I noticed you just joined the forum. You wouldn't be trolling would you? Lots of people have strong opinions. That doesn't mean you have to believe them. Open minds are good.


----------



## UnnDunn (Oct 27, 2002)

It seems to me that this new lease plan is nothing more than a cynical way to disguise the extra receiver fee. You're no longer paying $4.95/mo for 'nothing', you're paying $4.95/mo to 'lease the extra box.' Except, all said and done, you're still paying $4.95 for nothing.

The only thing that could justify this 'lease' fee is if all the boxes were made available for no or nominal upfront cost, like Cable does.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

dan8379 said:


> Just playing the Devil's Advocate a bit here, but is this really any different from leasing a car? I realize that a car and a satellite receiver aren't the same thing, but the model seems the same. If you terminate a car lease early, you have to pay off what you owed on the lease and you have to return the car. You also forfeit any down payment that was made. I guess if you don't like the lease model you can just pay the extra $300 up front for the HD DVR and own it outright. What I've read is that if you own it you don't have to pay the monthly lease fee on that unit (hopefully this is the case), but you would have to pay on additional receivers that you have.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pay $5 or $10 month with no up front cost and no commitment for a state of the art HD DVR, but I also understand why D* isn't offering that.


Except that when you lease a car, do you pay its retail price first, then some monthly cost to lease it? No.

What D*'s doing is asinine.


----------



## dingdong23456 (Mar 24, 2006)

dan8379 said:


> Just playing the Devil's Advocate a bit here, but is this really any different from leasing a car? I realize that a car and a satellite receiver aren't the same thing, but the model seems the same. If you terminate a car lease early, you have to pay off what you owed on the lease and you have to return the car. You also forfeit any down payment that was made. I guess if you don't like the lease model you can just pay the extra $300 up front for the HUD DVR and own it outright. What I've read is that if you own it you don't have to pay the monthly lease fee on that unit (hopefully this is the case), but you would have to pay on additional receivers that you have.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pay $5 or $10 month with no up front cost and no commitment for a state of the art HD DVR, but I also understand why D* isn't offering that.


Yes.it i different from leasing a car. Where is the signed agreement. Whenever you lease a car it is spelled out in writing, and you sign on the bottom line. After D gets the receivers back are they going to charge another $499.00 to the next lease customer/ Also after a 2 year agreement and the extra charges you probably have paid the full selling price so should be able to keep it.


----------



## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

What happens if you keep the receiver activated but cancel the DVR service? Does this void the contract also?


----------



## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

gomezma1 said:


> What happens if you keep the receiver activated but cancel the DVR service? Does this void the contract also?


You can't cancel the DVR service. 
T & C state:
"DVR service activation ($5.99/mo.) required for DVR and HD DVR leases."


----------



## agreer (Apr 7, 2006)

keenan said:


> From Comcast there is zero up front cost and only $9.95 per month. With Dish, it's $299 to lease with a $5.95 per month lease fee.
> 
> Hey, if DirecTV can get that out of people, more power to them, but I can't see how they will be competitive with Dish and cable at those prices.


MONOPOLY...they can do whatever they want, they have sunday ticket locked up, that is at least, what, 10 million customers...out of like 17million...

I just wish that the friggen NFL would have let multiple carriers provice the service.


----------



## tager (Apr 12, 2006)

DRSForLife said:


> Looking at the new pricing for equipment,
> 
> *Leasing equipment* ------- *Owning equipment*
> DVR - $99 --------------------------- $349
> ...


well HD Purchase at COSTCO is $80


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

my fun activation:

Prior to buying $398 newegg HDtivo, i emailed directv and asked if it would be owned or leased. They said owned, in writing. Called tonight to activate it (via my superspecial toll free number of course). the dude asked how much I paid. I said what difference does that make? I guess I could have lied and said 800 since he told me I needed to pay that much for an owned receiver and if it was only 400 then it's leased. 

But instead I reiterated that I emailed 2 online retailers AND DTV and they all said owned. He then transferred me to (I assume) the access card dept, since that's what i said he should do. Then she started in with the lease etc and I had to retell the story again. As soon as she heard the word ONLINE purchase, she changed her tone immediately and said she'd change it to owned right away and thanked me for being 'the best customer' and she was glad she could help me.

So the key word appears to be 'online.' Good luck everyone and make sure you write down days/times you call and who you talked to.


----------



## leesweet (Jul 15, 2003)

Another case of something like what newsposter found. New R15 from BB at $99.When I activated it, she asked where I got it, and I said BB, she asked how much (perhaps there's a list of prices?) and when I told her, said it was definitedly owned, and she'd transfer me somewhere (don't know if it was 'access card' as above or not, but, outcome is that the receiver is marked as 'owned' on my account.

I'm wondering if anything obtained anywhere but from D* is owned? But D* charges $99, also, don't they?

Anyway, one more example for you.


----------



## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

leesweet said:


> Another case of something like what newsposter found. New R15 from BB at $99.When I activated it, she asked where I got it, and I said BB, she asked how much (perhaps there's a list of prices?) and when I told her, said it was definitedly owned, and she'd transfer me somewhere (don't know if it was 'access card' as above or not, but, outcome is that the receiver is marked as 'owned' on my account.
> 
> I'm wondering if anything obtained anywhere but from D* is owned? But D* charges $99, also, don't they?
> 
> Anyway, one more example for you.


This dichotomy <sp?> will end up hurting them so much. They need it either One way or the other, OR advertise BOTh options!
it's pathetic. something like 'hit or miss' business plan!

John


----------



## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

leesweet said:


> I'm wondering if anything obtained anywhere but from D* is owned? But D* charges $99, also, don't they?


Best Buy's R15: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7345857&type=product&id=1122654459818


> Prices shown are "lease upgrade fees."


----------



## leesweet (Jul 15, 2003)

Interesting link to BB, thanks. But, as I reported, that's not what D* said/accepted.

I agree, it's a mess and confusing to all.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

I agree about the 'double standard' for lack of a better phrase. I dont think ive even seen anything in my directv mailings about lease. Actually, i dont think i ever have seen anything about my mpeg4 locals since their november turn on either. But i dont look all that closely.

Making things leased at dtv, bb, cc, but not newegg etc really is confusing and 'we' on here are presumably more informed than other people. I'd love to see someone buy from BBs website then try to own it. It's an online retailer and heck, best buy even says they are a different entity than their website (or is that CC?)


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

This is really just so much worthless dribble, who really cares about all of this. In 2 years the boxes have only minimal value - when a new one is only 50-100 dollars anyhow. 

I have been a subscriber myself for many years, I upgraded all 8 of my receivers (2 HD) within the past year, I have 7 older RCA SD boxes sitting in my garage- I can't get anywhere near the 99 dollars each that they cost (I have been offered like 10 bucks each). I also have a Hughes HTL HD which I paid $800 for and would gladly sell for $500.

Want to see if I am wrong - here goes. Anyone that is willing to offer me 99 bucks, I will pay shipping. All 100% working order, all have their original remotes. These are model 430's.

Hurry, I'm holding my breath.


----------



## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

HDImpatient said:


> This is really just so much worthless dribble, who really cares about all of this. In 2 years the boxes have only minimal value - when a new one is only 50-100 dollars anyhow.


Right now, D*'s (and E*'s I would assume) biggest competition is the cable TV "triple play" bundle. Most customers get a significant discount (around $400 over 16 months, $25 per month) for turning in their D* equipment to the cable company. I have even seen an offer for this _plus_ the cable company paying the customer's D* cancellation fee.

Of course, the cable company has no use for taking the customer's D* equipment other than to make it more expensive to switch back to D* when they realize they got screwed.

D* loses a lot of customers to the cable triple play, although I recently saw a statistic (location unknown) that 48% of the people that leave D* return to D* within 12 months. Because of this, several of the cable companies are now requiring a contract on their triple play offers.

Under the new D* plan, the customer wouldn't have the choice to give the cable company the equipment, which does a few things:

* The customer can't return the equipment to D* to avoid the cancellation fee. They pay the cancellation fee, and still must return the equipment to avoid nonreturn fees.

* The cable company typically refuses to honor the "dish buyback" without actually taking the equipment, to prove to them that you are actually cancelling your D* service. This raises the price of the cable service by $25/month for the first 16 months, making the offer much less compelling.

* If the customer decides to give the equipment to the cable company, they are giving up most of the discount from the "dish buyback" offer. Most D* customers have an average of 3 standard recievers and 1 DVR. The nonreturn fees for this setup would be: 3x$55+$200 = $365. This wipes out most of the $400 offer from the cable company. And if you figure in any cancellation fee, they will end up paying more than $400 in cancellation and nonreturn fees, destroying the discount they would get with the cable company.

* The nonreturn fees are set high enough that the customer would never hope to make more than that on the open market by selling the receiver. This makes it a larger chance that D* would get their equipment back to be reused.

So the lease plan makes it harder for the customer to leave D* and makes the major competition's offers much less compelling. While I wouldn't like the idea of paying $499 for a leased HD-DVR, the other equipment prices are reasonable.


----------



## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> Right now, D*'s (and E*'s I would assume) biggest competition is the cable TV "triple play" bundle. Most customers get a significant discount (around $400 over 16 months, $25 per month) for turning in their D* equipment to the cable company. I have even seen an offer for this _plus_ the cable company paying the customer's D* cancellation fee.
> 
> Of course, the cable company has no use for taking the customer's D* equipment other than to make it more expensive to switch back to D* when they realize they got screwed.
> 
> ...


The cancellation fee goes down over time, I believe your scenario would be if you cancelled the same month you got D*. And if you cancelled the same month you got it, you should have to pay them more than 200 IMO.


----------



## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

HDImpatient said:


> The cancellation fee goes down over time, I believe your scenario would be if you cancelled the same month you got D*. And if you cancelled the same month you got it, you should have to pay them more than 200 IMO.


The _cancellation fee_ does decrease over time, yes, but the _equipment non-return fee_ does not. The numbers I presented were just for the non-prorateable _equipment non-return fees_.


----------



## DishCSR (Jan 14, 2004)

dan8379 said:


> I was in Circuit City today and they are still selling receivers. However, I noticed that they no longer are offering rebates. The H20 is $99, and the HD-DVR is $499, neither one was showing the rebate that they previously had.


this is a lease price, not an owned price, circuit city should be telling their customers that they are leasing for this price not owning


----------



## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Even Circuit City's website (for the H20) does state:


> An upfront equipment upgrade fee of $99.99
> 
> -PLUS- a monthly lease fee of $4.99


Like any other store (or call center), apparently the CSRs either don't have all the details, or are leaving details out.


----------



## jebel (May 15, 2006)

Betcha after the MPEG4 switch they'll be apt to subsidize the boxes more.


----------



## Scarpad (May 22, 2006)

I just ordered a H15. Is this Considered anh advance box ? Is it a 2 yr commitment?

Also do they want the amount Upfront or can you pay monthly?


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Scarpad said:


> I just ordered a H15. Is this Considered anh advance box ? Is it a 2 yr commitment?
> 
> Also do they want the amount Upfront or can you pay monthly?


An H15 or an R15? DVR?

EDIT: If they're asking for $99 up front you that just for the equipment. Although if you are a new subscriber you should get some type of rebate.


----------



## Scarpad (May 22, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> An H15 or an R15? DVR?
> 
> EDIT: If they're asking for $99 up front you that just for the equipment. Although if you are a new subscriber you should get some type of rebate.


DVR Sorry


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

i'm pretty sure there is a 100 rebate for new subs on the R15 and the web site would have more details. Of course you dont own it, thats your 'price of admission' to directv these days.


----------



## Scarpad (May 22, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i'm pretty sure there is a 100 rebate for new subs on the R15 and the web site would have more details. Of course you dont own it, thats your 'price of admission' to directv these days.


I'm not a New Customer thou I was with D* for about 5 years before I switched over to cable. Cable in my Area has quite a bit of HD and a HD Compatible DVR but the Prices are Insane I can no longer Justify $200 + a month, so I'll be reactivating my existing account. Problem is my Equipment is very old so I ordered the R15 for starters. Would've gone HD but the Price to get into it is so prohibitive. (Well at least if you want a DVR). Also my Dish is an older dish with a Dual LNB. I wish D* would come into the 20th century an offer connections other Svideo. Like at least a Component Connection.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

i didn't think component was useful except for HD...interesting


----------



## Scarpad (May 22, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i didn't think component was useful except for HD...interesting


I guess for Standard Def it would'nt make a whole heck of a lot difference


----------



## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

Scarpad said:


> I guess for Standard Def it would'nt make a whole heck of a lot difference


If you are using Svideo, component connection will make a lot of difference. Always use the best connection available to you.
Even at 480p my xbox and my xbox 360 and my dvd player look better via the component connection.
Svideo is just like old..even RCA, with good cables looks as good or better.


----------



## HDNut (Aug 28, 2006)

I ordered an HR20-700 from Value Electronics for $299.99, including shipping, and it will be delivered on Thursday, 14 September. Today I emailed the vendor and asked whether that was a purchase or a lease price, and here is the answer I got:

"You can set it up as a lease of owned unit. Your choice. However, if you 
agree to the lease you can have your dish upgraded at no charge and get 
lifetime free advance replacement warranty and if you own the unit it's a 90 
day labor warranty."

According to the above, for the same price, we can either own or lease the equipment. Has anyone else heard this before?


----------



## hiker (Mar 1, 2006)

HDNut said:


> I ordered an HR20-700 from Value Electronics for $299.99, including shipping, and it will be delivered on Thursday, 14 September. Today I emailed the vendor and asked whether that was a purchase or a lease price, and here is the answer I got:
> 
> "You can set it up as a lease of owned unit. Your choice. However, if you
> agree to the lease you can have your dish upgraded at no charge and get
> ...


Who answered, VE or D*? If it was VE, I would get an answer from D*. But it does sound like normal procedure.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Anything "new" purchased after 3/1 is leased. Unless you pay $1000 for the HR20, you dont own it.


----------



## randyk47 (Aug 21, 2006)

I talked to D* about upgrading my H10 to an H20 and getting the new dish installed this morning. Quite frankly, the way D* is putting the packages together the whole idea of owning or leasing really doesn't make much difference other than you can't sell a leased unit. If my new unit is going to be used as the primary then the "lease" cost is already in my existing package, at least in the sense there won't be an additional cost. If I use the new unit for my second receiver then there's a $4.99 lease cost but no mirroring cost which would apply if it was an owned unit. So here I'll be with two H20's, one I own and one I rent and I'm going to pay $4.99 for the second unit one way or the other. Not sure I'll ever buy another unit since I'm not much into reselling old equipment anyhow and I typically keep them long enough that they're technically obsolete as it is.


----------

