# Splitting component/hdmi video output on HR24?



## Rob777 (Sep 16, 2010)

Can I split the component and/or hdmi out of an HR24?

I had an installation due this morning. Techs showed up...and I walked them through my house and what I had planned for how I want to use my receivers. I ordered an HD DVR, and HD receiver, and a SD receiver.

The HD DVR was to be placed in my media room where I have my comm closet..and i was to distribute the video output from the DVR to additional monitors in addition to the local pj in the media room. This is how I have my TWC DVR set up...so this was to just be an even swap. I am going to be pulling CAT6 around my house and will distribute digital content instead of going over the RG59s I have now with analog.

Anyway...the tech said i cannot take the component output from the HD DVR and put it into an amplified splitter...and then send it to multiple locations. Said it will not work. Nor can I do this via HDMI or via composit out. 

I have read that people said all outputs on the back of the HR24 are active at the same time...so I can effectively use the HDMI out to my pj, the component to my living room, etc. 

I didn't wish to have 5 boxes around my house...and replicating video is something I've been doing in this house for 5 years with TWC...and wanted to continue doing that. For the way we watch TV, it works well..and I could save some of the cash outlay for additional receivers. 

Anyone know the truth behind all of this? Tech said it's because they said power over the output wires...and splitting even once, regardless of whether it's a powered splitter or not, will decrease the voltage and the box will not work. Huh? I can see splitting the lines from the dish being a problem...but splitting the component and hdmi outs? 

Thanks,
Rob


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## beetzme (Oct 7, 2008)

You may certainly use an active splitter/amplifier to multiply analog signals including Component Video and Digital Audio (RCA or Optical). The distance is extremely limited due to signal drop as the technician explained. My cables are only 3 feet long (serving two monitors in the same room) to a $200 4-way splitter/amp. I gave up on HDMI since DirecTV and Philips HDCP incompatibility won't let me get 1080p on my 47" HD LCD.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The only real danger of doing what you propose is that there is a high risk of the component outputs temporarily going dark as part of HDCP content protection. While all outputs are usually hot, HDCP (which is required for HDMI inclusion) demands that when protected content is being shown, the component outputs must either:

1. Be disabled

-or-

2. Be downconverted to SD

Both DBS providers have tipped their hands that they've implemented method #1.


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## Rob777 (Sep 16, 2010)

Hey, beetz...thanks for your reply. I've done this kind of splitting on lots of other hardware...and I've found that as long as I have a powered splitter, it seems to work okay. Never tried it with DirecTV hw, though. The only box I've seen problems with long runs of analog outputs if Motorola. In general, that box, paired with whatever cable service is provided in the north, is a piece of junk...but I digress. 

Harsh...this is what I figured...and what I deal with now with my TWC equipment. When I built my house, I ran RG59 wires to a bunch of rooms to carry component and audio for distribution. I am in the process of switching that over to CAT6 to give me more flexibility for things like IR and such. Anyway....the setup I have right now is an HDMI switcher that acceps outputs from my TWC box and my Oppo Blu-ray and then send it to my Runco CRT. The component output from the TWC box goes to an active splitter...and then I ship it to 3 other rooms via RG59 cables. I also take the coax out and send it to 2 other rooms with older tvs. Without a coax out on the HD boxes, I was just going to use an RF modulator and ship it to those destiantions via the same wires I'm currently using. So my single DVR goes to lots of locations...with a second DVR in my bedroom so the wife and I can watch different programming if I want. By using both analog and digital HD outs, I do encounter the implemented HDCP protection. If I forget to pull the TWC HDMI out of my HDMI splitter, I won't have a picture in my living room which is one of the rooms where the component runs terminate. 

As I think about this a bit more, I wonder if I should just go with what DirecTV wants me to do -- and that is put a box at every monitor -- so that would 4 boxes instead of the 3 I wanted to procure vs. the 2 TWC boxes I have now. I can do that...but I wanted to know and understand what my options were BEFORE the installation...which is why I cancelled it this morning and went back to the think tank/forum 

Thanks,
Rob


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

Rob, You can split the HDMI signal. I am splitting the HDMI signal 4 ways from both my hr22's. Go to Monoprice for everything you need.


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## Rob777 (Sep 16, 2010)

Thanks, Joe. Not that it should matter, but was wondering if anyone has done this with the HR24. I was calling foul when the installer told me this -- but couldn't really substantiate it with anything since I haven't tried it.

- rob


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## Ranger Home (Dec 28, 2010)

I believe what you want to do is 100% doable. I am doing it right now with a similar set up.

I have two Hr24's. Each has an HDMI that goes out to a Snap AV HDMI splitter that then goes to three different amplifiers as I have surround sound set up in three different rooms. I also have the component from each of the HR24's going to an 8x8 Snap AM matrix switch that then goes out to 8 different TV locations. It has never failed. Works beautiful for me as there are only two people living in the house. I NEVER ever need more than two satellite boxes!

Concerning the new rules about HDCP and HDMI, that has anything to do with cable boxes (thus satellite boxes) and only concerns blu-rays and other equipment. Cable boxes are exempt from the new rule as the government doesnt want to force all users to upgrade to new TV's that have HDMI. That makes sense and thats the way the new rule reads. How could the government force american people to NOT be able to use their current cable/satellite services? The government WONT do that. Cable and sat boxes will certainly be allowed to have component for the foreseeable future. They can never force anyone to buy a new TV. Just like they didnt force people to buy new TV's with the switch from analog to digital. Gov't even paid for boxes so they could use their old TV's.


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## Ranger Home (Dec 28, 2010)

ROb, also, there are baluns that will distribute HiDef over you coax. Do you have five coax at each location? Snap AV has them that will distribute HDMI over five coax. Designed for a typical install that had five coax for component. 

However, if i had five coax I would stick with component as long as I could as HDMI is a pain.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

It would seem to make much more sense (and cents) to use two CAT5e cables for HDMI distribution than it does to employ 5 coaxial cables. CAT5e wall plate pairs can be had for around $20.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10425&cs_id=1042501&p_id=6177&seq=1&format=2

I'm not sure Ranger Home's observation of HDCP usage is accurate. I see cases all the time where cable box users are crying about some STB not supporting their older HDTV.


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## Ranger Home (Dec 28, 2010)

Harsh, oh I agree 100% on using cat instead of coax. However, if the coax is already there and cat is not or the cat is hard to get there or the desire is not there to run more wire, then there is a colution for HDMI over coax. Audio Authority also has a ONE coax solution although I am not familiar with it. 

I wouldnt trust an $18 HDMI over cat balun anymore than I would trust Manson at a family reunion. I would NEVER install that on a customer job. Although it looks like its getting good reviews on the site from end users. HDMI is just to voltage sensitive. Might work fine for sending hdmi from one source to one TV but invision many issues when trying to do distribution. 

What issues have you heard about exactly concerning STB not working with TV's? Is it the STB doesnt have component? If they only have HDMI then of course thats an issue with older TV's. That wouldnt be worth crying about if the customer got the wrong box for their application. Would like to hear more so I know about these issues. Thanks!

I stand by my claim of HDCP has nothing to do with BROADCAST signals. I will try to find the actual document as it makes it clear there. 

Again though, would like to understand the issues you hear about.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Ranger Home said:


> However, if the coax is already there and cat is not or the cat is hard to get there or the desire is not there to run more wire, then there is a colution for HDMI over coax.


You speak as if everyone's walls are filled with RG6 cables running everywhere.


> What issues have you heard about exactly concerning STB not working with TV's? Is it the STB doesnt have component? If they only have HDMI then of course thats an issue with older TV's.


The issue is that HDCP is here and it is being used. Most of the cable STBs opt, as the DIRECTV STBs do, to simply blank the screen on all HD outputs. Finally, many cable STBs no longer feature component outputs at all. In summary:

Strike 1: HDCP is currently being employed in many areas and its use will spread
Strike 2: component outputs (and inputs) are going away
Strike 3: coax solutions are bulky and expensive

Your clients may be favorably impress by large bundles of fat cable, but the coax solutions typically don't provide any better picture than the $19 wall outlet solution and the wall outlets preserve digital sound for much less than the price of a digital audio extender set.

Current loop just makes a whole lot more sense than coax.


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## Ranger Home (Dec 28, 2010)

Harsh, thanks for the feedback.

The reference to coax was only in response to Rob777's comment on already having RG59 pulled all over his house: "I ran RG59 wires to a bunch of rooms to carry component and audio for distribution."

We rarely find coax run in bundles in homes. Of course, there is typically one run in every room and has been for years as that was the technology at the time. Distributing video via HDMI is still a complicated, expensive and cumbersome process that rarely works 100%. While the $19.95 piece to which we refer may work on a one-off install, I would bet a dime to a dollar that once its placed in a distributed application, it will fail.

My customers have no preference on cables and wiring. Most are clueless as to what is connected to what or how it works. Nor do they care, they just want it to work. Thats why they hire out.

Analog is going away but will be around for a while. Until HDMI is rock solid, I prefer to find work arounds for distributed 1080 that may or may not include some HDMI. Interesting that you have found so many STB's particularly DirecTV that blanks out HD outputs. I have yet to find that but Im sure it will trickle in. At that time it will be address edbut rest assured it wont be solved with $20 HDMI balun, lol. I would only expect from that no less than $200 worth of service calls (that wont be billable due to proposing an invalid solution).

Thanks again for the feedback. Makes for curious conversation.

Audio Authority has put together an interesting paper on the analog sunset. Sure, it may be biased from their perspective as a manufacturere, nontheless, its educational:

http://www.audioauthority.com/techdocs/Component_Video_Future_AAC_0510.pdf

Are you a custom integrator/installer or DIY? If the former, are you proposing/installing these baluns in jobs?


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Joe C said:


> Rob, You can split the HDMI signal. I am splitting the HDMI signal 4 ways from both my hr22's. Go to Monoprice for everything you need.


+1 on Monoprice, but "splitter" is a misnomer. That process only accurately refers to a hybrid power divider as used for modulated signals typically in the RF range. A cable TV splitter is the common example. It divides the signal proportionally between outputs and rarely switches the signals between outputs.

An HDMI "splitter" is actually a pretty complex device; it has a HDMI receiver chip (or two) and 2 to 16 HDMI transmit chips, and a device somewhat like a signal-buffered digital video router in between, which duplicates the input signal on each output; and does not power-divide or "split" the signal. Each HDMI xmit chip has to handshake with a HDMI receive chip in a display or AVR, and each HDMI receive chip in the device has to handshake with the HDMI transmitter chip in a DVR. Lots of individual circuits chained together.

A component "splitter" also does not actually split or power-divide the signal. It is more like a video distribution amp combined with a switcher, which duplicates various input signals independently on each output, unity gain with buffering. Except that it does in in parallel paths of 3 (not including the audio paths). Since most consumer devices switch multiple ins to single or double outs, it is more a switcher than anything else.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

harsh said:


> The only real danger of doing what you propose is that there is a high risk of the component outputs temporarily going dark as part of HDCP content protection. While all outputs are usually hot, HDCP (which is required for HDMI inclusion) demands that when protected content is being shown, the component outputs must either:
> 
> 1. Be disabled
> 
> ...


Good choice. Customers will grumble if a output port doesn't work, but they will be outraged if you down-rez their precious content.

As proof that they can do this, my component outs (which run in parallel to another TV) go dark for a second every time I switch to that source on my TVs' HDMI inputs. IOW, unless or until HDMI sees a valid authorized handshake, it won't unmute the component outs. Of course right now everything is authorized, so it always works, but I always get blanked for a second, which is unnerving.

"Copy once" may be a different issue. I can't move eps of _Rescue Me_ to my DVDR because of that, so that is starting to raise its ugly head more and more. Apparently "copy once" considers the copy on my DVR the first and only authorized copy, and won't allow a second. And of course a DVDR only has analog inputs in the US, so they are starting to close the analog hole.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Ranger Home said:


> The reference to coax was only in response to Rob777's comment on already having RG59 pulled all over his house: "I ran RG59 wires to a bunch of rooms to carry component and audio for distribution."


RF distribution and a bundle of five coax are two decidedly different issues. The same mistakes are made when people assume that anything CAT5 can (or must) be connected to an Ethernet switch.


> Are you a custom integrator/installer or DIY?


Just a prosumer with a electrical engineering background.

Things multimedia are going to be done via data cabling (be it copper or fiber) in the future and coax makes for pretty lousy data cabling. I'd be willing to wager that RG6 will disappear from home usage within the next ten years in favor of some manner of twisted pair or fiber connectivity.

This discussion probably should have been initiated in the installation/MDU forum.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

TomCat said:


> As proof that they can do this, my component outs (which run in parallel to another TV) go dark for a second every time I switch to that source on my TVs' HDMI inputs. IOW, unless or until HDMI sees a valid authorized handshake, it won't unmute the component outs. Of course right now everything is authorized, so it always works, but I always get blanked for a second, which is unnerving.


Early on in the history of the H(R)2x series, there were occasional misfires of HDCP flagging and they would indeed cause more than a momentary blackout of the component outputs.


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