# Poor HD quality



## Brian6751

Hi everyone. . This is my first post. I am a former Direct TV customer and I have some issues with my HD picture. It looks like DVD. I know all my settings are correct. I have the Hopper receiver. It's on hdmi now. I tried component but it was about the same. 

My Direct TV HD picture was crystal clear. What should I do? Thanks for the help.


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## Jim5506

One or more of your assumptions are faulty.

Either your receiver is not set up correctly, or the TV is not performing correctly, or maybe you are on an HD channel presently showing SD programming, or maybe you are actually on an SD channel.

There is an ongoing dialog as to whether Dish or DirecTV has a better HD picture. Consensus seems to lean toward DirecTV being marginally better if any at all (some displays/programming make this irrelevant).

I have also heard that the Hopper/Joey system supposedly has a better picture than the earlier Dish receivers, but DVD quality, NEVER - if things are set up correctly.

I would look in the setup for the HDTV setup and make sure it is set to 1080i and 16X9.

If you indeed feel that the picture is inferior, call the installer. Only call Dish directly if you can't contact the installer. This has something to do with the way Dish pays and docks installers for installs and call backs. Well, he should have done it right the first time, so go ahead and call Dish about the problem.


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## Brian6751

"Jim5506" said:


> One or more of your assumptions are faulty.
> 
> Either your receiver is not set up correctly, or the TV is not performing correctly, or maybe you are on an HD channel presently showing SD programming, or maybe you are actually on an SD channel.
> 
> There is an ongoing dialog as to whether Dish or DirecTV has a better HD picture. Consensus seems to lean toward DirecTV being marginally better if any at all (some displays/programming make this irrelevant).
> 
> I have also heard that the Hopper/Joey system supposedly has a better picture than the earlier Dish receivers, but DVD quality, NEVER - if things are set up correctly.
> 
> I would look in the setup for the HDTV setup and make sure it is set to 1080i and 16X9.
> 
> If you indeed feel that the picture is inferior, call the installer. Only call Dish directly if you can't contact the installer. This has something to do with the way Dish pays and docks installers for installs and call backs. Well, he should have done it right the first time, so go ahead and call Dish about the problem.


It's not the setup. I'm pretty tech savvy with audio video equipment. Ill call Dish. I guess I'm really asking if I should expect as clear a picture as what I had with direct tv and there is most likely something wrong.


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## P Smith

Perhaps you forgot to share with us what channel, what program you watching, what time it was ? We can check it too.
Adding to that - I 'm savvy too and I would post what TV I have, what Info button of my TV shows, etc ...


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## Stewart Vernon

We need way more info here...

The size and type of HDTV, confirmation of the actual menu settings on the Dish receiver for HD video mode would be a start. It would also help to know what channel, what was on the channel, and was one of the Dish receiver "zoom" modes engaged... or perhaps a zoom mode on the HDTV was in use.


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## Brian6751

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> We need way more info here...
> 
> The size and type of HDTV, confirmation of the actual menu settings on the Dish receiver for HD video mode would be a start. It would also help to know what channel, what was on the channel, and was one of the Dish receiver "zoom" modes engaged... or perhaps a zoom mode on the HDTV was in use.


The tv is a pn59d7000 Samsung plasma. Hdmi is run through a Marantz sr5005 avr. Avr up scaling is off. Receiver is on 1080i 16x9 and Normal mode. Tv is on Screen Fit. It's pretty much all the hd channels and programs especially when there is motion. Worst offender is HBO surprisingly. Game of thrones looked terrible.

Didnt mean to sound like a know it all, just saying I know to look for the basics like the settings and format.


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## Ray [email protected] Network

Have your tried bypassing the avr and connecting your HDMI directly from the Hopper to your TV? I have a Hopper and Samsung LED TV and my HD picture is better than the 922 or 722 I had. Please let me know. Thanks.



Brian6751 said:


> The tv is a pn59d7000 Samsung plasma. Hdmi is run through a Marantz sr5005 avr. Avr up scaling is off. Receiver is on 1080i 16x9 and Normal mode. Tv is on Screen Fit. It's pretty much all the hd channels and programs especially when there is motion. Worst offender is HBO surprisingly. Game of thrones looked terrible.
> 
> Didnt mean to sound like a know it all, just saying I know to look for the basics like the settings and format.


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## P Smith

Brian6751 said:


> The tv is a pn59d7000 Samsung plasma. Hdmi is run through a Marantz sr5005 avr. Avr up scaling is off. Receiver is on 1080i 16x9 and Normal mode. Tv is on Screen Fit. It's pretty much all the hd channels and programs especially when there is motion. Worst offender is HBO surprisingly. Game of thrones looked terrible.
> 
> Didnt mean to sound like a know it all, just saying I know to look for the basics like the settings and format.


What you see after press/select Info on your TV ? 
You must find out what is your TV getting: resolution and refresh rate, interlacing or not. 
Post a screenshots of the info here.


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## Stewart Vernon

Brian6751 said:


> The tv is a pn59d7000 Samsung plasma. Hdmi is run through a Marantz sr5005 avr. Avr up scaling is off. Receiver is on 1080i 16x9 and Normal mode. Tv is on Screen Fit. It's pretty much all the hd channels and programs especially when there is motion. Worst offender is HBO surprisingly. Game of thrones looked terrible.
> 
> Didnt mean to sound like a know it all, just saying I know to look for the basics like the settings and format.


Not to keep picking... but are you sure you are actually on an HD channel? For a new Dish user it is very easy to be watching an SD channel since they are mapped (channel numbers) right next to each other.

I am all the time finding my father watching SD channels instead of HD channels on his TV...


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## n-spring

I have a similar setup to the OP in my home theatre (see signature below). I can testify that the HD picture from the Joey is just as good, if not better, than what I had with a DirecTV H21.


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## Brian6751

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> Not to keep picking... but are you sure you are actually on an HD channel? For a new Dish user it is very easy to be watching an SD channel since they are mapped (channel numbers) right next to each other.
> 
> I am all the time finding my father watching SD channels instead of HD channels on his TV...


Not a chance.


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## phrelin

Since I don't have a Hopper, I can only suggest that if it is possible set the receiver to 720p instead of 1080i. It might, but not necessarily, produce better results.


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## P Smith

Brian6751 said:


> Not a chance.


Any chance to obtain resolution info from the TV set ?


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## Stewart Vernon

Something is not right here, or we aren't getting all the info. There have been lots of debates over picture quality differences of DirecTV vs Dish vs Cable... but nobody has ever accused any provider of having HD that looked like a DVD compared to the other provider.


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## harsh

It is helpful to avoid terms like "clear" and "crisp" in reference to picture quality. That you aren't getting what you consider to be not clear can probably be described with more specificity. Terms like artifacting, motion blur and noisy are often helpful.

Adjusting the contrast up to "searing" mode may approximate the profiling that DIRECTV does to their content.


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## P Smith

What we talking about ? "searing" mode ?

OP can't get his tv input signal parameters ...:icon_dumm


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## harsh

P Smith said:


> What we talking about ? "searing" mode ?


Searing is what happens to the retina given high enough gamma and contrast.


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## P Smith

harsh said:


> Searing is what happens to the retina given high enough gamma and contrast.


I mean he is not that tech savvy to get into this; he is presenting only personal perception. What is meaningless to discuss.


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## inazsully

Brian6751 said:


> It's not the setup. I'm pretty tech savvy with audio video equipment. Ill call Dish. I guess I'm really asking if I should expect as clear a picture as what I had with direct tv and there is most likely something wrong.


Brian it's pretty obvious that you are as familiar as most of us here when it comes to this stuff. The only thing I can suggest is R&R everything from your wiring hookups to your cable connections. Just start from scratch and pretend you're hooking up a new system for a friend and don't take any little seeing for granted. I am quite interested in seeing what you find out, if anything. If it's still screwed up I hope you follow up with Dish because common sense dictates something is wrong somewhere and it's probably not you. A friend of mine just bought a new Sony TV and the picture came through fine but he had no sound. We spent several hours checking everything we could think of. Finally he called Comcast and they told him to reboot his DVR. Problem solved. DUH, who'd a thunk?


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## akw4572

How does the HD look on your other TV's?


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## Brian6751

"P Smith" said:


> Any chance to obtain resolution info from the TV set ?


1080i. 60Hz


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## Brian6751

"P Smith" said:


> What we talking about ? "searing" mode ?
> 
> OP can't get his tv input signal parameters ...:icon_dumm


Really dude?


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## Brian6751

"harsh" said:


> It is helpful to avoid terms like "clear" and "crisp" in reference to picture quality. That you aren't getting what you consider to be not clear can probably be described with more specificity. Terms like artifacting, motion blur and noisy are often helpful.
> 
> Adjusting the contrast up to "searing" mode may approximate the profiling that DIRECTV does to their content.


There Are slight artifacts. Mostly noticeable in the back round. Colors also seem crushed especially blacks. This is all very slight but still noticeable. Maybe DVD quality is harsh. It reminds me of Uverse hd if anyone has seen that.


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## Brian6751

"Ray [email protected] Network" said:


> Have your tried bypassing the avr and connecting your HDMI directly from the Hopper to your TV? I have a Hopper and Samsung LED TV and my HD picture is better than the 922 or 722 I had. Please let me know. Thanks.


Just tried that. At first the image was all pink even After I put it back. Then I reset the hopper and it went back to normal. I then bypassed the avr again and the pic looks the same.


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## Brian6751

"akw4572" said:


> How does the HD look on your other TV's?


I actually have a plasma that I'm not using in the basement. I'll hook it up tomorrow and see how it looks on the Joey. Thanks for sparking my memory.


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## Brian6751

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> Something is not right here, or we aren't getting all the info. There have been lots of debates over picture quality differences of DirecTV vs Dish vs Cable... but nobody has ever accused any provider of having HD that looked like a DVD compared to the other provider.


this is what I wanted to hear. I just wanted to know if what I'm seeing is expected from Dish or not. I started kicking myself for not researching their hd quality. but it sounds like I should expect quality on par with Direct TV and not Uverse? thanks Stewart.

and to P smith,just because I've only posted a couple times doesnt mean I'm ignorant. I know what torch mode is. I know what micoblocking is. just because you have 150000 posts doesn't mean you know more than everyone. why don't you come on over to the avs sister site and ask a audio question so I can respond to it with snarky comments and "dumb" emoticons.

sorry for the stupid internent rant but that made me angry.

thanks to those who are helpful without being condicending.


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## P Smith

Any snapshots from the TV ? 
"_Mostly noticeable in the back round. Colors also seem crushed especially blacks. This is all very slight but still noticeable_"
I'm puzzled by your descriptions.

[You can find me there, NP to discuss at AVS.]


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## Brian6751

"P Smith" said:


> Any snapshots from the TV ?
> "Mostly noticeable in the back round. Colors also seem crushed especially blacks. This is all very slight but still noticeable"
> I'm puzzled by your descriptions.
> 
> [You can find me there, NP to discuss at AVS.]


I don't think it would be visible in a picture. its one of those things you have to see in motion.

I have the same username at avs. look me up. I'm not as dumb as you insinuated


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## Davenlr

What is puzzling? His background is where the colors seem crushed. If you dont know what black crush is, try google or wikipedia.

OP, have you tried using component inputs vs HDMI to see if the same problems exist? Maybe even a different HDMI input. I am not familiar with your TV, but dont some have a dedicated "game mode" input that would result in that type picture?


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## P Smith

Davenlr said:


> What is puzzling? His background is where the colors seem crushed. If you dont know what black crush is, try google or wikipedia.
> ..


No need to cut and shoot to one point; I did a quote. His description is .. not that clear to imagine by other person. And the black crush can be attributed to source, that's why I did ask to provide info about ch/time. But OP ignoring it. :hair:


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## Brian6751

"Davenlr" said:


> What is puzzling? His background is where the colors seem crushed. If you dont know what black crush is, try google or wikipedia.
> 
> OP, have you tried using component inputs vs HDMI to see if the same problems exist? Maybe even a different HDMI input. I am not familiar with your TV, but dont some have a dedicated "game mode" input that would result in that type picture?


I tried component. it was worse. I tried different inputs. same. I'm really thinking it is something in the cabling or the dish. the installer used the existing coax from direct tv but maybe there is a bad connection somewhere.


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## Brian6751

"P Smith" said:


> No need to cut and shoot to one point; I did a quote. His description is .. not that clear to imagine by other person.


there's artifacting going on and also crushing of colors and blacks. no shadow detail etc. like some kind of hdmi problem but I've tried two cables and all the settings are correct.


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## Davenlr

Brian6751 said:


> I tried component. it was worse. I tried different inputs. same. I'm really thinking it is something in the cabling or the dish. the installer used the existing coax from direct tv but maybe there is a bad connection somewhere.


A bad connection would show up as drop outs in audio/video, not a bad picture. Do you have an antenna handy that you could plug into the RF input of the TV, and scan in an HD channel over the air, and see how it compares? That should rule out the TV if its looking good.

HDMI should not be an issue either, since digital is digital, it should either be perfect, or gone completely.


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## P Smith

Brian6751 said:


> ... I'm really thinking it is something in the cabling or the dish. the installer used the existing coax from direct tv but maybe there is a bad connection somewhere.


Well, we shouldn't go there ...

What you're WATCHING ?


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## sigma1914

P Smith said:


> No need to cut and shoot to one point; I did a quote. His description is .. not that clear to imagine by other person. And the black crush can be attributed to source, that's why I did ask to provide info about ch/time. But OP ignoring it. :hair:


Maybe YOU should read more carefully. 


Brian6751 said:


> ... It's pretty much all the hd channels and programs especially when there is motion. Worst offender is HBO surprisingly. Game of thrones looked terrible.
> ...


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## Brian6751

"Davenlr" said:


> A bad connection would show up as drop outs in audio/video, not a bad picture. Do you have an antenna handy that you could plug into the RF input of the TV, and scan in an HD channel over the air, and see how it compares? That should rule out the TV if its looking good.
> 
> HDMI should not be an issue either, since digital is digital, it should either be perfect, or gone completely.


I don't have an antenna but my bluray player, apple tv, and ps3 all look great and they end up in the same input. Also Direct TV looked great as well.


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## Davenlr

Brian6751 said:


> I don't have an antenna but my bluray player, apple tv, and ps3 all look great and they end up in the same input


That being the case, If there a way to hook a Joey up to that TV, and see if it has the same problem? Otherwise, Id contact the dish rep that responded to you earlier, and see about getting it swapped out, or at least checked out. Ive had boxes (not DISH, but...) that had bad video chips in them.

If the box is actually ok, then you might have to have your set calibrated to that specific box, using another input. Seems drastic though. All my devices also use the same input. Only the Tivo Primier has a slightly different output, color wise, but not different enough to calibrate a separate input for it.


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## sigma1914

The OP just might be one of those who can see the PQ difference.


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## Davenlr

sigma1914 said:


> The OP just might be one of those who can see the PQ difference.


Yes, that is possible. I would think if that is the case, the TV, being a plasma, should be able to be calibrated to compensate for whatever issue that is bugging him.


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## Brian6751

"Davenlr" said:


> Yes, that is possible. I would think if that is the case, the TV, being a plasma, should be able to be calibrated to compensate for whatever issue that is bugging him.


I will try the joey tomorrow. I hope there is something wrong and this isn't how its supposed to look.


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## Stewart Vernon

On a lark... Another thing to try would be to set the Dish receiver to some other mode... 720p or heck even 480i/p.. let it settle into that mode... then go back and change it back to 1080i.

This will do two things:

1. It will let you see IF there is a difference on the same channel output at 720p vs 1080i and especially 480 vs 1080.
2. It will possible reveal if the receiver was "lying" about the mode it is in.

In reverse order... I have seen Dish receivers sometimes indicate they are in a given display mode but not actually be in that mode...

For #1, IF you have the tuner on a known HD channel say like HDNet Movies where you know it is a 1080i channel.... you should see a stark difference between output of 480 vs 1080. IF you do not, then that indicates a potential receiver problem too.

I haven't had DirecTV in many many years and long before they launched HD service... so I can't say directly... but even the most rabid DirecTV fans who swear DirecTV has better PQ, I never heard any of them say Dish looked as bad as Brian... so I tend to think there is an issue here, though we are running out of things to eliminate.


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## Brian6751

"Stewart Vernon" said:


> On a lark... Another thing to try would be to set the Dish receiver to some other mode... 720p or heck even 480i/p.. let it settle into that mode... then go back and change it back to 1080i.
> 
> This will do two things:
> 
> 1. It will let you see IF there is a difference on the same channel output at 720p vs 1080i and especially 480 vs 1080.
> 2. It will possible reveal if the receiver was "lying" about the mode it is in.
> 
> In reverse order... I have seen Dish receivers sometimes indicate they are in a given display mode but not actually be in that mode...
> 
> For #1, IF you have the tuner on a known HD channel say like HDNet Movies where you know it is a 1080i channel.... you should see a stark difference between output of 480 vs 1080. IF you do not, then that indicates a potential receiver problem too.
> 
> I haven't had DirecTV in many many years and long before they launched HD service... so I can't say directly... but even the most rabid DirecTV fans who swear DirecTV has better PQ, I never heard any of them say Dish looked as bad as Brian... so I tend to think there is an issue here, though we are running out of things to eliminate.


I tried switching to 720p and then back again earlier and didn't see any difference. Just for the heck of it I took your advice and switched to 480i then back to 1080i and low and behold, I believe that did it.! I'll watch more programming for a while then report back.


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## Brian6751

update. Picture looks great. Crystal clear. At least as good as Direct TV. I did find a connector outside that was kinked a little as well but like mentioned earlier, not sure that matters with a digital signal. The guide is also much more clear and the semi transparent info that hangs around for a bit at the top of the screen along with the format indicator saying "NORMAL" is smaller and more clear as well. 

So Stewart was right. Flip flopped the resolution to 480i then back to 1080i and that did the trick. I really appreciate the help and I'm very happy that I have my great HD picture back.


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## Stewart Vernon

Brian6751 said:


> I tried switching to 720p and then back again earlier and didn't see any difference. Just for the heck of it I took your advice and switched to 480i then back to 1080i and low and behold, I believe that did it.! I'll watch more programming for a while then report back.





Brian6751 said:


> update. Picture looks great. Crystal clear. At least as good as Direct TV. I did find a connector outside that was kinked a little as well but like mentioned earlier, not sure that matters with a digital signal. The guide is also much more clear and the semi transparent info that hangs around for a bit at the top of the screen along with the format indicator saying "NORMAL" is smaller and more clear as well.
> 
> So Stewart was right. Flip flopped the resolution to 480i then back to 1080i and that did the trick. I really appreciate the help and I'm very happy that I have my great HD picture back.


The kind of picture quality issues you were describing didn't sound like signal from the dish issues... since those wouldn't effect signal quality, but rather pixel/macroblocking and drop-outs... though it probably doesn't hurt to have checked and made sure any issues wouldn't crop up later.

It sounds to me that you were a victim of a box-isn't-doing-what-it-says issue.

I used to have an old Dish receiver that I swear sometimes would start to look fuzzy... and if I dropped it down to 480i then back to 1080i it would be sharp again. That was years ago and long out of service for that receiver... but I have heard others with similar issues.

The weird part is the HDTV indicating it was getting a 1080i signal IF it actually wasn't... but it sure sounds like your receiver wasn't really outputting 1080i until you "shocked" it back to life.

You can probably now see why so many of us here were surprised to hear you say how bad your picture was looking before.


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## Brian6751

The shocked response convinced me that something was wrong. The tv showing 1080i was strange but it's true. If it goes back to a bad picture I will probably get Dish to replace the receiver.


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## Stewart Vernon

Yeah.. I would definitely keep an eye on it. It could be an initial setup fluke... but if it happened again I would see if I could get it replaced too.


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## MCHuf

Stewart Vernon said:


> but nobody has ever accused any provider of having HD that looked like a DVD compared to the other provider.


You ever watch U-Verse in HD?


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## Brian6751

"MCHuf" said:


> You ever watch U-Verse in HD?


that's funny because that's what it reminded me of.


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## MCHuf

Brian6751 said:


> that's funny because that's what it reminded me of.


OUCH! :eek2: It's a good thing you got it fixed! Netflix often looks better than U-verse.


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## Stewart Vernon

MCHuf said:


> You ever watch U-Verse in HD?


Lots of bad things about U-Verse that I've heard... but not that it looked like DVD.

I know enough to know I don't want U-Verse TV either... so I'm not a fan or supporter. I just never heard anyone say it looks like DVD.

Of course all this is moot now, since the thread starter fixed (at least for the moment) his glitch.


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## Inkosaurus

I'd personally still try and get that receiver replaced before it gets worse


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## FarmerBob

Jim5506 said:


> One or more of your assumptions are faulty.
> 
> Either your receiver is not set up correctly, or the TV is not performing correctly, or maybe you are on an HD channel presently showing SD programming, or maybe you are actually on an SD channel.
> 
> There is an ongoing dialog as to whether Dish or DirecTV has a better HD picture. Consensus seems to lean toward DirecTV being marginally better if any at all (some displays/programming make this irrelevant).
> 
> I have also heard that the Hopper/Joey system supposedly has a better picture than the earlier Dish receivers, but DVD quality, NEVER - if things are set up correctly.
> 
> I would look in the setup for the HDTV setup and make sure it is set to 1080i and 16X9.
> 
> If you indeed feel that the picture is inferior, call the installer. Only call Dish directly if you can't contact the installer. This has something to do with the way Dish pays and docks installers for installs and call backs. Well, he should have done it right the first time, so go ahead and call Dish about the problem.


No! Not at all. DISH's Sat feed is crap. Their VOD is Fantacstic, if downloaded. I watched the first season of Spartacus via VOD and OMG what a phenomenal picture. That "let the cat out of the bag" and let me know that DISH can deliver a GREAT picture. But not via the dish. Since, VOD has been a disaster as far as delivering (not knowing whether I'm going to get anything). But when it does, it's great.


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## tampa8

FarmerBob said:


> No! Not at all. DISH's Sat feed is crap. Their VOD is Fantacstic, if downloaded. I watched the first season of Spartacus via VOD and OMG what a phenomenal picture. That "let the cat out of the bag" and let me know that DISH can deliver a GREAT picture. But not via the dish. Since, VOD has been a disaster as far as delivering (not knowing whether I'm going to get anything). But when it does, it's great.


Maybe you have a problem with something? If the Dish picture wasn't great I would have switched years ago. I calibrate my TV's until my family is fed up! So I am very picky. (Calibrate much more than just color saturation, tint, contrast, etc..) Did my Daughter's with Uverse, ours with Dish, and in Florida my Father -in - Law with Fios. Fios is very good, Uverse not so much, Dish is very good. Charter is always just a little murky for some reason. Direct TV is also very good at any of my friend's houses, many of which also calibrate their TV's. But the Dish picture is right up there, very good. Charter seems just a little murky somehow. Oddly, the CBS station here very recently looks better on Direct TV. HBO movies have better contrast, better blacks and shadows on Dish for some reason, as pointed out by my friends not just me. Other than the recent CBS change, I can barely if at all see a difference in OTA from the Dish Sat signal.


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## Inkosaurus

tampa8 said:


> Maybe you have a problem with something? If the Dish picture wasn't great I would have switched years ago. I calibrate my TV's until my family is fed up! So I am very picky. (Calibrate much more than just color saturation, tint, contrast, etc..)


Yeah im pretty finicky with calibrations on my Panny th42px75u, even go so far as to fine tweak it in the Hidden Service Menu from time to time and I have to agree Dish PQ is right up there with DTV's. Theres a hardly a difference.


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## Stewart Vernon

_This isn't a Dish vs DirecTV thread. The thread starter was having a specific problem, one that he self-resolved from suggestions in this thread. Rather than become a Dish vs DirecTV off-topic thread, I am going to close at this time. The thread starter can begin a new thread OR PM a moderator to ask for his thread to be reopened IF he has further issues with this problem._


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