# Name based recording - will this work?



## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

Okay, I posted a message in another thread about a possible work around for name based recording.. It didn't get the response I thought it would. Here are the relevent details:

_What I would suggest is that there is a permanent or static search. This would be a tool to define a list of show names, descriptions, etc. This list would be used to perform a search with results updating each day (to coincide with the guide updates). I would suggest that the user interface would have an option to edit the list and an option to view the search results.. When viewing the search results, it would allow a "one button" selection to set up a record event (just like the existing search). This is an advanced continuous search which is in no way a record by name..

With this feature, I could look at the search results once a week to ensure I recorded everything that I wanted - so it would be very easy to manage (assuming a 10+ day guide)._

This is a solution that would be perfect for my needs.. I used to own a DirecTivo - the automatic recording is nice, but it would also record *everything* that matched. In other words, I would get junk recorded also. It would also record the same thing multiple times if it aired more than once (sometimes the show description would not list it as a repeat).

So.. My question is, would this solution work for you? Maybe not that many people care about name based recording.. I certainly miss it.

Tim


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

So you mean do a search for a show and have the option to check all to record or to check the ones that you want to record? How far in advance can one search for? It would be great to be able to search far in advance for a show in which would make this work a bit better but take up too much hard drive space. Perhaps they could implement this with OpenTv to download it that way so that you can select all the shows several months in advance to record all of them.

The bad thing about this is that the time of the shows could change and they may not even have the info to show that far in advance anyways. If they accessed the online Dish guide and did it through that, it would make it even easier I would think.


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## msanto (Mar 15, 2003)

This sounds good to me, if the reason that they don't implement name-based recording is because they didn't want to infringe on that rather than simply because it's harder to write the SW.  

Anyway, that sounds like it would work fine, but I would still want it to adjust for time changes in a show ... like "supersized-Friends", etc. etc. Yes, I know, diff. feature, but still ...


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

Jacob S:
That is pretty much what I am suggesting.. I envision a "results" screen. To avoid potential "copyright" infringement, I wouldn't include a option to record other than selecting the result (pretty much identical to how the normal search results operate). By updating with the guide downloads, it should have results available for the full 10+ days of the guide. Monthly guides tend to be a little inaccurate. I see this more as an extension of the search feature as opposed to a completely new feature..

Msanto: I thought dish was already working on the "supersized" problems..

Tim


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## jazzis (Nov 6, 2002)

Hey, I had an idea alittle while back that would work also but did'nt get the response i expected either @ http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12334 .its NOT name based but i would work in a simular mannar and give alot of potential options. However, I dont think people understood where i was going with my post :shrug: .



> _Originally posted by jazzis _
> *From what I understand the main hold up is patents and paying license fees. I made a post on this a little while back and tried to suggest a solution without giving away all my great ideas. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10512
> 
> LOL... Anyway my whole thing with that was Dish could get creative and not use the same technique used by there competitors. Example Serial based recording instead of name based. Anyone ever notice that all the PPV Movies have there own serial number. Well if they would only assign hidden serial numbers with the descriptions and have the OS seamlessly look at those Serial numbers without the end-user having to deal with What Serial goes with what show. Example: 7th Heaven on Channel 234 and its usually 1hour. The serial could be 234*1:00*54fd6eg4... (Channel*Length*Serial unique to 7th Heaven) Now let's say threes a special 2hour episode it would now read 234*2:00*54fd6eg4 and your PVR would automatically Ajust for the extended time  ... There you have name based recordings without the name... :shrug:
> ...


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

jazzis:
After developing quite a few different programs, I have become accustomed to lukewarm receptions to the breakthroughs I've had ;-)

I was expecting that there would be responses to this idea from people who liked the idea or hated it.. I didn't think it would get no reaction (LOL).. 

To me this seems like a very minor modification to the existing search (as opposed to a clear "name based recording" option). 

I am being selfish in that I would like to see this implemented for my own benefit. 

I would create a list that would contain movie titles that I am anxiously waiting to see, Pistons games (there is no easy way to do this now except for browsing the local Fox Sports channel), etc. 

I do like the restriction of the timers that Dish uses.. On my DirecTivo, to record the Screen Savers on TechTV, it would record the shows multiple times (unless the guide info specifically showed it to be a repeat). Using the timers and the continuous search would satisfy my recording needs..

Tim


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## jazzis (Nov 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by buist _
> *
> This is a solution that would be perfect for my needs.. I used to own a DirecTivo - the automatic recording is nice, but it would also record everything that matched. In other words, I would get junk recorded also. It would also record the same thing multiple times if it aired more than once (sometimes the show description would not list it as a repeat).
> 
> ...


buist:

I like your idea also. If you read closely to what i have there is no reason why what you want couldnt be implemented into the serial based recording idea. From the idea i had each show would have its own unique serial number never being the same. So it would never record old show unless wanted by the user... per options: record all occurances, record only new, etc....a work around for the extra junk you say tivo would record...(unless that what you wanted for some strange reason :shrug: but the great thing about serial based recordings it would give the users that option...


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## UpOnTheMountain (Mar 24, 2002)

YES. There is no reason why this shouldn't be done. And it is a very good cheat to get a lot of what we need. Good job on a good Idea!
Now ... make it so 721 team !


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

This is similar to an idea in which I had with VCR+ codes which have a number that helps you record shows onto your vcr, only using the codes to record to your hard drive.


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## msanto (Mar 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by buist _
> *
> Msanto: I thought dish was already working on the "supersized" problems..
> 
> Tim *


I'm still a newbie (haven't even had my Dish for a month yet), so if they're working on it, great.

But I must admit when my friend talks about his Tivo I'm still jealous.


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

msanto: I wouldn't be too jealous.. My DirecTivo was slower, didn't have picture in picture, etc. It does have some advantages, but so does Dish..

Tim


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## jazzis (Nov 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *This is similar to an idea in which I had with VCR+ codes which have a number that helps you record shows onto your vcr, only using the codes to record to your hard drive. *


The problem with VCR+ is i think gemstar charges to use there service. http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/videoplus.html IN other words the price would get passed down to us (monthly fee :nono: ) no one wants that. Im not to familiar with VCR+. My question would be would VCR+ allow the machine to determine detailed information about a show. My example serial based idea would allow the reciever to know the epiode number, channel, showtime, if its new or repeat showing, the lenght of the show, wheater the length has changed (2 hour speacial) and other detail could be added as well. For more advance features like season pass and smart record the Serial would give more detailed information than VCR+ has to offer.


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

jassiz, I don't think the serial number based system would work for me.. I would perform searches on programs that aren't in the guide (movies that I want to see but aren't on HBO/Cinemax yet).. I also might be interested in searching for stuff in the program description (like the existing search does) such as "computers" or "porsche"..

That's just me, though. 

Tim


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## jazzis (Nov 6, 2002)

*buist...*

*you know what would really be kool. If they took my serial idea and your idea and made them work together. For example when they do add online services to the 721... you could have a profile online of your favorite shows or things you want to search for on a regular basis and the 721 would check it at a set time interval. YOu could even take it a step further, although it wouldnt benifit me or yourself but others could. The unit would track your viewing habits (as they do anyway) online and would recommend other shows you maybe interested in based on viewing habits. You could even go as far as like alot of music or book sites...you know people who watch show ABC also like show XYZand show LMNOP. then the user would have options to automatically record, tune to, do nothing at all, or just put them in a list of recommended show...this could all be done online or from the unit...*

Sounds kool but probely years off.... :shrug:


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

jazzis, I am not sure if you meant this to be sarcastic or not.. But what you described is exactly how Tivo's operate. You can give shows ratings (1-3 thumbs up or 1-3 thumbs down).. Based on your ratings the Tivo will either recommend or record shows that it determines you would like (based on your ratings).

This is a feature that I don't really miss from my DirecTivo. I would rather not pay anything for the service (either lifetime or monthly) than have this added and pay for it. In comparing the DirecTivo's and the Dish PVR's, I guess you could always say that you still pay for the PVR service from Dish because your upfront costs are more expensive (using the 721 as an example). That being said, I still like my 721 (and my 508). If Dish would implement the automatic search, I would be VERY HAPPY..

I am sure that this idea has been thought of before. However, in order to make sure that Dish doesn't want to implement it for fear of being sued, I do hereby grant Dish Network (aka Echostar) full use of the automatic search idea without any fees or royalties ;-)

Tim


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

jazzis, I should clarify my answer to say that with the Tivo, you cannot do any of this from a website (at least not officially ;-). I would like the ability to set up a PVR event on the web.. Recording shows that I may like is not that big of a deal for me.. Thats just my opinion, though. I also don't care to have any of the home shopping channels take up bandwidth, also ;-)

Tim


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## jazzis (Nov 6, 2002)

buist....

no i wasnt being sarcastic. I am aware what i was speaking of would give us some of the same features as the tivo. However, everyone says dish cant do it because tivo owns the patients to name based recordings. What i suggested was a work around to get the same features without infringing on there patient/copywrite. Its just another way to do the same thing. For example windows media player using (WMA) and Music match jukebox using (MP3). They both record compressed audio (basicly the same thing) But do it in a different way. Not violating eachothers patients. From all the things ive read here many other people want those same features. Not everyone would benifit from them. it sure would be nice to know they were there though.



Oh, i just heard Tivo just launched a few new features. Some of which i mentioned. Like managment from the web.....


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

jazzis..

I think the announcement from Tivo will make it difficult for Dish to compete. I haven't seen anything that has confirmed that DirecTV will offer the features on its Series 2 Tivo's, however, I believe that this will occur. 

Perhaps Dish will pick up the Replay patents at the "fire sale".. That would help. My opinion is that some of these copyright issues are silly and go beyond protecting intellectual property.

Tim


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Perhaps its more than just an issue of copyright but Dish being able to even offer the feature at all on their current pvr receivers.


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## msanto (Mar 15, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *Perhaps its more than just an issue of copyright but Dish being able to even offer the feature at all on their current pvr receivers. *


Frankly, I see no reason why they couldn't, if they wrote the SW properly. Most of what we're talking about is just a question of SW, not HW.


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