# Directv Going To Lease Only 3/1/06



## boba (May 23, 2003)

Dealers are receiving notices their contracts expire on 2/28/06 they must sign a new contract for lease only by the end of Feb. Maybe DISH and Directv were prohibited from merging but they are sure looking like one company.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Does this mean customers will not purchase their equipment, but will lease it instead? Dealers will not sell receivers or dvrs?
-
Carl


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## lee1203 (Jul 14, 2005)

January 13, 2006

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

• DIRECTV will be migrating over to a new Lease Program on March 1, 2006, which will require you to sign a new agreement in order to continue working with DIRECTV. As such, this letter shall serve as the written notice required to terminate your existing agreement with DIRECTV. Please be advised that your existing agreement will terminate on February 28, 2006.

• In order for you to continue to act as a DIRECTV dealer, you must agree/accept/approve a new Agreement via the online acceptance method by February 28, 2006; the new agreement will govern our relationship under the Lease Program.

• Your current commission economics will not change other than starting March 1, 2006, commissions will now be paid only for leased equipment instead of purchased sales. Of course, commissions are subject to changes in the future in accordance with the terms of your Agreement.

• In addition, customers will continue to acquire their hardware from you under the Lease Program. Upon activation of the leased equipment, DIRECTV buys the equipment from you and issues payment. Please see details regarding the sale and purchase of leased equipment in the agreement, which will be made available to you shortly.

• Through the new lease model, standard, professional installation remains free for new customers and under the new terms of the lease model, it's free for existing customers as well!

• A Q&A sheet along with a more comprehensive outline of this program is included.

Countdown to the DIRECTV Lease Program!

On March 1, 2006, DIRECTV will be migrating over to a new hardware Lease Program. The Lease Program is designed to provide your customers with competitive offers and to help you continue growing your acquisition of quality customers. The DIRECTV Lease Program will be our primary hardware model to ensure our customers always have access to the most state-of-the-art, up-to-date equipment!

On March 1, 2006, all commission-based DIRECTV hardware transactions will be under the new Lease Program. It is important to note that your current commission economics will in no way change other than the fact that commissions will now be paid only for leased equipment instead of purchased equipment. Of course, your commissions are subject to change in the future in accordance with the terms of your new agreement.
It's never been easier to have satellite television! With equipment replacement and upgrade offers through our DIRECTV dealers, the new Lease Program takes all the worry away from customers. In addition, leased receivers are backed by a convenient equipment replacement program. If the customer wishes to stop subscribing to DIRECTV service upon fulfilling their programming commitment, they are required to return the equipment to DIRECTV per the terms of the Equipment Lease Addendum.

Page 2 of 5

The new Lease Program requires customers to pay a nominal lease fee, some examples of which are highlighted below (please note that the following illustrations are for new customers only). Note that the monthly lease fee is in addition to applicable programming charges:

New Customer Hardware
Upfront Hardware Lease Fees
Total Monthly Costs to Customer
Commitment Period/Early Cancellation Fee
1 Standard Receiver
$0
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+Monthly programming
1 Year/ $150 prorated
1 Standard Receiver + 1 DVR
$0 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+ $4.99 Lease Fee (for second receiver) + $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
+ Monthly Programming
2 Years/ $300 prorated
2 DVRs + 1 HD
$197 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+ $4.99 Lease Fee (for second receiver)
+ $4.99 Lease Fee (for third receiver)
+ $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
+ Monthly Programming
2 Years/ $300 prorated
1 HD DVR
$299 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
$0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
+ $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
+ Monthly Programming
2 Years/ $300 prorated

* New customers are eligible for one Advanced Receiver mail-in rebate ($100) per household; this rebate is subject to changes or termination.
Credit scoring at point of retail remains in effect with the new Lease Program, so the only change new customers will experience are the lower costs associated with becoming a new DIRECTV customer!
New Agreement Required for all DIRECTV dealers

This letter serves as written notice of DIRECTV's termination of your agreement as required under your agreement with DIRECTV. Accordingly, your existing agreement will terminate on February 28, 2006. Because the lease program is an entirely new business model, it is necessary for every DIRECTV dealer to review and approve the new agreement no later than February 28, 2006. The new agreement will govern our relationship under the lease program. [Of course, both parties will continue to be responsible for any matters and issues from the terminated agreement after the termination date (e.g., payment of any unpaid commissions, chargebacks accruing in the future, any installation issues under the sales model, etc.)] To make this transition as easy as possible for our dealers, we expect that the new agreement will be available online in the next few days for your review and acceptance. Once the new agreements are available, when you log onto retailer.DIRECTV.com, you will be sent to the online agreement that is applicable to you. For your convenience, you may continue to go on to the dealer website without accepting the new contract, but be advised that you will be directed to the agreement each time you log on until you have agreed, accepted and approved. Please note that you have the right to review the terms of the new agreement before accepting it, but if the new agreement is not approved by the principal/owner of record by February 28, 2006, since your existing agreement will be terminated, you will no longer be able to continue as an authorized DIRECTV dealer after February 28, 2006.

By enabling all of our dealers to accept the agreement online, we ensure that our dealers have access to additional important information DIRECTV will post online in the future.

Page 3 of 5

Please note that on and after March 1, 2006, only hardware transactions under the Lease Program will be eligible for commission; any DIRECTV hardware sold by you will not be commissionable or subsidized in any manner or for any amounts whatsoever. All hardware subsidies will be subject to chargeback for sales made under the owned model. Further, under the new terms of the lease agreement, DIRECTV retailers are required to extend the lease offers to customers based on DIRECTV's standardized lease transactions; see "Consumer Offers: Lease Transactions" in the online contract for full details. Dealers may not deviate from these lease transaction fees in any way since the lease offers are set and established by DIRECTV as the lessor.

We are excited to offer this new program to our customers and know that, with your help, it will be a success! If you have any questions, please contact your DIRECTV Area Sales Manager, Distributor Sales Representative, or DIRECTV Retail Services at 1-800-323-1994, or via email at [email protected].

Best Regards,
DIRECTV, Inc.

LSE_0106

Page 4 of 5

Q&A About the DIRECTV Lease Program
1. Q: Why is DIRECTV migrating from a hardware purchase model to a Lease Program?

A: Some of the most important reasons DIRECTV is migrating to the Lease Program are:

• To maintain a competitive offer in the market place by providing
DIRECTV customers a convenient receiver replacement program.

• Increase retention of DIRECTV customers, which should help reduce chargebacks.

2. Q: How is my commission affected by the Lease Program?

A: With the new Lease Program going into effect on March 1, 2006, dealers are paid commission only on those DIRECTV customers acquired under the terms of the new Lease Program. Some dealers may still sell receivers to customers, if they wish, but they will not be paid on those sales and the hardware will be in no way subsidized.

3. Q: How are mirroring fees impacted with the new Lease Program?

A: The bottom line is that a customer's monthly bill will be nominally impacted. Although the term "mirroring fees" will go away in the Lease Program, customers will be subject to "monthly lease fees." As with mirroring fees, the new "lease fees" are waived for the customer's first receiver (lease fees are waived for the first receivers for new customers only; existing customers are subject to lease fees for any additional receivers they may acquire).

4. Q: Under the current model, I can currently charge whatever I want for the hardware as long as I absorb the cost if I offer it at lower than what is subsidized by DIRECTV; will this continue?

A: No. DIRECTV will be the party who will lease the equipment to the customers under the lease program. Accordingly, DIRECTV controls, sets and establishes the terms of the new lease program, including the lease fees charged for equipment. If you deviate in any way from the lease program as established by DIRECTV, including the standardized lease fees, you will be subject to immediate termination, without an opportunity to cure.

5. Q: Will the customer be getting used boxes with the Lease Program?

A: Through the Lease Program, there is the possibility that customers may get reconditioned equipment. Please keep in mind that DIRECTV will take precaution to ensure that any reconditioned equipment leased to customers is in "like new condition." Of course, whether the equipment is new or reconditioned, it is covered by DIRECTV's receiver replacement program.

6. Q: Why do I need to sign a new contract/agreement with DIRECTV?

A: Because the primary business model that DIRECTV works with its dealers on is changing, we need to have a new contract in place to support the new Lease Program. This will also allow us to provide contractual amendments to you online in the future!

7. Q: What happens if I sell (not lease) my customer a DIRECTV system after 2/28/06?

A: While you are not prohibited from selling DIRECTV hardware at prices established by you, please be advised that after 2/28/06, you will not be eligible to receive any commissions or subsidies for sold receivers. Accordingly, you will be subject to chargebacks for any subsidies or commissions you may have received, including any amounts under the Buy-Down Program. Please also note that only leased receivers will be eligible for ODU/Multi-Switch Reimbursement and commission.

Page 5 of 5

8. Q: Do Early Cancellation Fees or Differentiated Offer Fees change with lease?

A: No; both of these fees will be generally handled in the same manner as they currently are.

9. Q: With the lease model, will new customers now have to pay for standard, professional installation?

A: A: No! New customers will continue to get standard professional installation for free. In fact the great news is that with the lease model, both new and existing customers are eligible for free standard installation.

10. Q: How are existing customers affected by the lease model?

A: They aren't. Existing customers who have already purchased hardware will continue to own their hardware. New customers who sign up for DIRECTV will be leasing the equipment. However, if an existing customer wishes to add additional receivers to what they already own on or after March 1, 2006, the newly acquired receivers will be under the terms of the lease model and the customer will be considered a mixed household, in which case they will be charged a lease fee on their leased equipment.

11. Q: How does my advertising need to change in order to promote the new lease model?

A: There will be changes reflected in all advertising once we migrate over to the lease model on March 1, 2006. We will be providing you ad slicks for the upcoming Q1 offer, which reflects the new hardware positioning and advertises our great, new programming offer that starts March 1.

Advertisements will continue to promote the free standard, professional installation but the equipment will now be leased, not owned. You will need to update the legal block to reflect the new terms of the lease, and, as always, all advertising must be sent through DIRECTV for approval.

12. Q: How does the Lease Program affect a customer's experience at my store?

A: The customer experience will not change in regards to coming to you to acquire the best and latest DIRECTV hardware. The customer still comes to you for their DIRECTV system, they are credit scored, and you provide them with the hardware they need to access DIRECTV programming! The only thing that changes is the terms of the hardware, which will now be leased instead of owned. Upon cancellation/disconnection/termination of their DIRECTV account, they are required to return the equipment per the terms of the Equipment Lease Addendum, which replaces the old programming commitment agreement. If they do so before they have satisfied the programming commitment, they will also be subject to the early cancellation fees. The terms of ownership change, but accessing the premier multi-channel provider remains the same! DIRECTV is making it easier than ever for customers to get the most up-to-date, advanced hardware on the market through its dealers.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=52395&page=2


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## mya23rd (Dec 11, 2005)

DTV has been talking about moving to a lease plan for awhile and its good that they are finally doing it. I read some of the details and I don't understand why they are still charging 200 bucks for the HD DVR and thats only after a 100 buck rebate so the initial up front cost would still be 300 bucks, if I read it correctly. I mena thats definitely better than paying a thousand bucks but I don't understand why its still pretty expensive, espeically compared to cable which has very little or no up front costs. This is not to mention the 2 year commitment that is required which is excessive in my opinion, I understand that they have to protect their investment but why not offer a 1 year contract instead. 

And one thing I don't understand about the lease plan is, will there be another 5 buck monthly lease fee per receiver on top of the 5 bucks already paid for additional receivers, meaning that it would now cost 10 bucks a month per receiver? I'm confused on that. If this is the case doesn't that mean customers are worse off because they will have to pay an extra five bucks per receiver a month? Compared to the previous deal where you got all the equipment for free and only had to pay the 5 buck additional receiver fee? I hope that makes sense. But from the looks of it it doesn't seem like DTV is setting this up right. Plus it seems like they are giving dealers less of an incentive to offer good service. Am I right about all this?


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

I just hope this dosent apply to those with the HR10-250 HDTivo's that are waiting to get their upgrade to the HR20 HDDVR. Because Ill be _____ if I have to trade in my HR10-250 for a leased HR20 model!


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

mya23rd said:


> I mena thats definitely better than paying a thousand bucks but I don't understand why its still pretty expensive, espeically compared to cable which has very little or no up front costs.


With cable you'll still pay $15-$20/mo. for equipment and DVR costs for as long as you're using the equipment. Personally, I'd rather pay an upfront fee and have my monthly charges be for programming only. Plus, if I want to upgrade my equipment as far as expanding the recording capacity, that's up to me.


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## GunnySpook (Nov 17, 2005)

Looks like Weaknees will be going out of business now.

The Gunny


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Will distributors such as Solid Signal still be allowed to sell equipment directy to DTV subscribers?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

HIPAR said:


> Will distributors such as Solid Signal still be allowed to sell equipment directy to DTV subscribers?


The answer was in the original post:


> 7. Q: What happens if I sell (not lease) my customer a DIRECTV system after 2/28/06?
> 
> A: While you are not prohibited from selling DIRECTV hardware at prices established by you, please be advised that after 2/28/06, you will not be eligible to receive any commissions or subsidies for sold receivers. Accordingly, you will be subject to chargebacks for any subsidies or commissions you may have received, including any amounts under the Buy-Down Program. Please also note that only leased receivers will be eligible for ODU/Multi-Switch Reimbursement and commission.


-------------------------



> I mena thats definitely better than paying a thousand bucks but I don't understand why its still pretty expensive, espeically compared to cable which has very little or no up front costs.


Also don't forget that E* charges a $250 "lease upgrade fee" for their HD-DVR.



> This is not to mention the 2 year commitment that is required which is excessive in my opinion, I understand that they have to protect their investment but why not offer a 1 year contract instead.


Didn't you just answer your own question? "they have to protect their investment"


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

mya23rd said:


> And one thing I don't understand about the lease plan is, will there be another 5 buck monthly lease fee per receiver on top of the 5 bucks already paid for additional receivers, meaning that it would now cost 10 bucks a month per receiver?


_3. Q: How are mirroring fees impacted with the new Lease Program?

A: The bottom line is that a customer's monthly bill will be nominally impacted. Although the term "mirroring fees" will go away in the Lease Program, customers will be subject to "monthly lease fees." As with mirroring fees, the new "lease fees" are waived for the customer's first receiver (lease fees are waived for the first receivers for new customers only; existing customers are subject to lease fees for any additional receivers they may acquire)._

I take that to mean the mirroring fee will be replaced with the lease fee. Considering the mirror fee is $4.99 and the lease fee will be $4.99 sounds like they will just be renaming that. I doubt you are going to be paying around $10 for an extra outlet.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I wonder, should we all rush out and buy what we need before that deadline ? Is it better to own or to lease ?


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## msmith (Apr 23, 2002)

Bobman said:


> I wonder, should we all rush out and buy what we need before that deadline ? Is it better to own or to lease ?


How long do you typically keep a receiver?

How much does it cost under the new program? How much under the old program?

This decision will be highly dependent on your situation.


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## westwood wizard (Dec 22, 2005)

jfalkingham said:


> _3. Q: How are mirroring fees impacted with the new Lease Program?
> 
> A: The bottom line is that a customer's monthly bill will be nominally impacted. Although the term "mirroring fees" will go away in the Lease Program, customers will be subject to "monthly lease fees." As with mirroring fees, the new "lease fees" are waived for the customer's first receiver (lease fees are waived for the first receivers for new customers only; existing customers are subject to lease fees for any additional receivers they may acquire)._
> 
> I take that to mean the mirroring fee will be replaced with the lease fee. Considering the mirror fee is $4.99 and the lease fee will be $4.99 sounds like they will just be renaming that. I doubt you are going to be paying around $10 for an extra outlet.


100% sure this is a change in terms of the legal definition...ownership of equipment will be with Directv rather than the customers. The bottom line cost will not change. Obviously, nobody will pay $10 for each additional outlet. I would stick with cable in that case until FIOS comes to my neighborhood and tell Directv to take a hike.

Leasing the equipment is no big deal as the receivers and technology change so much that I want to upgrade to the newest equipment anyway.


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## JcT21 (Nov 30, 2004)

Bobman said:


> I wonder, should we all rush out and buy what we need before that deadline ? Is it better to own or to lease ?


i would prefer to own my equiptment.

maybe i dont quite understand how all this is going to affect me as a customer but to think that D* would charge a mirroring fee and a lease fee is just crazy. if that is the case me and my 5 receivers are going bye bye. but i think that means the mirror fee will be renamed to a lease fee for new customers only. i think it said current customers will continue to own their equiptment, but if a receiver is added after 3/06 they will become a mixed household and subject to a lease fee for that particular piece of equiptment. it also said something about all receivers are covered by a replacement program. does that mean the current directv protection plan will be going away? but again, for new customers only? i assume our current bills will inrease slightly like it said. the mirroring/lease fee will possibly raise from 4.99 to a new rate. so some of you wise D* professionals correct me if im wrong when i say ... i assume current customers will remain under the old rules with the exception of adding new equiptment?

*whewww*


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## westwood wizard (Dec 22, 2005)

JcT21 said:


> i would prefer to own my equiptment.
> 
> maybe i dont quite understand how all this is going to affect me as a customer but to think that D* would charge a mirroring fee and a lease fee is just crazy. if that is the case me and my 5 receivers are going bye bye. but i think that means the mirror fee will be renamed to a lease fee for new customers only. i think it said current customers will continue to own their equiptment, but if a receiver is added after 3/06 they will become a mixed household and subject to a lease fee for that particular piece of equiptment. it also said something about all receivers are covered by a replacement program. does that mean the current directv protection plan will be going away? but again, for new customers only? i assume our current bills will inrease slightly like it said. the mirroring/lease fee will possibly raise from 4.99 to a new rate. so some of you wise D* professionals correct me if im wrong when i say ... i assume current customers will remain under the old rules with the exception of adding new equiptment?
> 
> *whewww*


The fees will not change because of the transition from "mirroring fees" to "lease fees". It will remain $4.99 per month. But, obviously, this may eventually increase over the course of time but not because of the change in ownership terms. Eventually, even mirroring fees would have increased at some point.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I'd like to see if D* can now justify the $4.99 mirroring fee for hardware we purchased, they said it was for the extra expense of supporting the box, but now they lease you a box for $4.99 and no mirroring fee. Doesn't it cost just as much to support that leased box vs. owned, if not more?


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## westwood wizard (Dec 22, 2005)

RAD said:


> I'd like to see if D* can now justify the $4.99 mirroring fee for hardware we purchased, they said it was for the extra expense of supporting the box, but now they lease you a box for $4.99 and no mirroring fee. Doesn't it cost just as much to support that leased box vs. owned, if not more?


I have always been a fan of Directv but they will eventually get stomped on by cable and the telco fiber optic services when two way cablecard tuners come into the market. The rental rates for these cards should hopefully be less than $4.99 or at some point even free with the service. Directv will then have to revisit the issue of mirroring fees or lease fees or whatever they want to call the fee that gets added on for additional outlets.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Bobman said:


> I wonder, should we all rush out and buy what we need before that deadline ? Is it better to own or to lease ?


That depends on whether what you need will be available before March 1st. If you lease, you can return the unit if it doesn't work out. If you buy, you're stuck if it dies after a year or something you need requires an updated receiver (both D* and E* are doing some funny stuff here with their interactive content).

Here's another way to look at it:

Pros:

o $4.99/month probably looks better to most budgets than $99-299 up front.
o If the next "must have" feature shows up this summer (or next), you're not stuck with a unit that can't offer it.
o Apparently you're paying the $4.99 fee either way.

Cons:

o You're beholden to D* for two more years.
o You may get a "pre-owned" receiver.
o D* could theoretcially replace a perfectly good receiver with one that better suits their business plan (ie huge storage set aside for ads and/or on demand).

Thoughts:

o You've got six weeks to decide
o There aren't any "to die for" receivers that are likely to show up between now and March 1.
o The rate at which receivers get retired seems to be increasing each year. Some models are offered less than a year before being discontinued.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Smthkd said:


> I just hope this dosent apply to those with the HR10-250 HDTivo's that are waiting to get their upgrade to the HR20 HDDVR. Because Ill be _____ if I have to trade in my HR10-250 for a leased HR20 model!


Leasing applies EXCLUSIVELY to those acquiring new or additional equipment. It does not change anything that you already have.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

westwood wizard said:


> I have always been a fan of Directv but they will eventually get stomped on by cable and the telco fiber optic services when two way cablecard tuners come into the market.


That's a big when. First you have to get everyone to agree on a standard and then get it deployed at both the customer end and the head ends.


> The rental rates for these cards should hopefully be less than $4.99 or at some point even free with the service.


The current numbers for the one-way cards are around $3-7. Its easy to imagine that they will be able to ask $5 or more for a two-way unit that offers demand programming and perhaps some limited interactive capability. Then there is the rumbling about monitors with integraded DBS receivers...


> Directv will then have to revisit the issue of mirroring fees or lease fees or whatever they want to call the fee that gets added on for additional outlets.


Probably not. As long as it is less than the monthly rent on a cable box, it will be called "fair".


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## butthead (Jan 14, 2006)

As a previous D* sub wanting to come back to D* how will this effect me obtaining recievers. I have everything i need for a DIY except for the D10's. CSR's has told me i'm not eligible for new sub ppromotions. Will they supply me both 
d10's,one as a purchase and one for a lease?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Does this mean that we won't be able to buy receivers at BB and CC anymore?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

theratpatrol said:


> Does this mean that we won't be able to buy receivers at BB and CC anymore?


Did you read the thread before asking the question?

Dealers are still given the _option_ to sell equipment if they want, but they will not receive a sales commission from D* for doing so. So chances are that you can still buy receivers at some retailers (BB and CC I don't know about), but the prices will probably go up so that the company can make a profit.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

YMMV, but for me this is a big mistake by D*. Now once I've finshed 2-year stint for my $100 rebate, there is no real incentive to stay with D* over Dish or the cable cos. Whoever comes up with the best deal is likely to get my $$ now. I liked the fact that with D* I owned the equipment. Now I'll try to ride my DTIVOs until they can't be made to work anymore and go with the best deal.


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## SBacklin (Sep 14, 2005)

I got a question. I pay $41.99 (package), $4.99 (mirroring fee), $5.99 (DVR fee) and $7.99 (insurance fee). If I am understanding this correctly, if I were to be under the new lease agreement when it comes out, I would pay the same, minus the $7.99 insurance fee? Can someone clarify that? I know since I am a current customer that nothing will change for me. I am just wondering if I could save money if I were able to get under the lease agreement someone. Just something to think about I guess. Thanks for any information.


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## jharper04 (Nov 18, 2005)

RCY said:


> YMMV, but for me this is a big mistake by D*. Now once I've finshed 2-year stint for my $100 rebate, there is no real incentive to stay with D* over Dish or the cable cos. Whoever comes up with the best deal is likely to get my $$ now. I liked the fact that with D* I owned the equipment. Now I'll try to ride my DTIVOs until they can't be made to work anymore and go with the best deal.


And furthermore where I live personal property I own is exempt frpom property tax. If they own it, they will owe property tax and have to track track/report in every taxing district.

Cable companies know exactly where their equipment is by address. Satellite dishes don't as far as I know.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jharper04 said:


> And furthermore where I live personal property I own is exempt frpom property tax. If they own it, they will owe property tax and have to track track/report in every taxing district.
> 
> Cable companies know exactly where their equipment is by address. Satellite dishes don't as far as I know.


They know the physical address that the receivers were issued to and they ask that you have a phone line connected to the receiver so that the receiver can phone home to let them know that it hasn't moved.

As for the property tax issue, I don't think receivers qualify.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

butthead said:


> As a previous D* sub wanting to come back to D* how will this effect me obtaining recievers. I have everything i need for a DIY except for the D10's.


Make absolutely certain that you aren't going to need anything new if they offer it to you.


> CSR's has told me i'm not eligible for new sub ppromotions.


How long have you been away?


> Will they supply me both d10's,one as a purchase and one for a lease?


They will lease them both if you do this after February 28th. When they say no more purchases, they mean it.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Once they start leasing no one will be able to hack anything leased either. Maybe another reason to buy something now.


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## butthead (Jan 14, 2006)

Harsh,
I've been away for 3 years now. made the mistake of going to cable. Will i be paying a lease fee for both receivers or just one? Really confused here.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

mya23rd said:


> And one thing I don't understand about the lease plan is, will there be another 5 buck monthly lease fee per receiver on top of the 5 bucks already paid for additional receivers, meaning that it would now cost 10 bucks a month per receiver? I'm confused on that. If this is the case doesn't that mean customers are worse off because they will have to pay an extra five bucks per receiver a month? Compared to the previous deal where you got all the equipment for free and only had to pay the 5 buck additional receiver fee? I hope that makes sense. But from the looks of it it doesn't seem like DTV is setting this up right. Plus it seems like they are giving dealers less of an incentive to offer good service. Am I right about all this?


For any existing equipment (beyond the "first" receiver - whether that is owned previously or leased), there would be a $4.99 a month "mirroring fee" as there is now. For any equipment acquired under the lease program (beyond the "first" receiver - whether that is owned previously or leased) there would be a $4.99 "lease fee". There is no "mirroring fee" on any equipment that is leased, and there is no "lease fee" on any equipment that the subscriber owns. If there is both owned and leased equipment on the account, that is what they mean by a "mixed household". Either way, there is no monthly $4.99 fee on the "first" receiver on the account, and any additional receivers will still only cost $4.99 per month each.



JcT21 said:


> it also said something about all receivers are covered by a replacement program. does that mean the current directv protection plan will be going away? but again, for new customers only? i assume our current bills will inrease slightly like it said. the mirroring/lease fee will possibly raise from 4.99 to a new rate. so some of you wise D* professionals correct me if im wrong when i say ... i assume current customers will remain under the old rules with the exception of adding new equiptment?


I'm guessing any equipment on the account that is owned by the subscriber would only be protected if they have the current protection plan, which is like $5.99 or $7.99 depending on HD or non-HD, I think. Because D* owns the leased equipment, they take responsibility for it functioning properly, therefore no additional fee for a protection plan for leased equipment.

I'm expecting that I will continue to pay $7.99 per month for the protection plan (that covers my 2 HD Tivos and four SD D* Tivos) until such time that I choose not to cover them or no longer have them.



RAD said:


> I'd like to see if D* can now justify the $4.99 mirroring fee for hardware we purchased, they said it was for the extra expense of supporting the box, but now they lease you a box for $4.99 and no mirroring fee. Doesn't it cost just as much to support that leased box vs. owned, if not more?


Basically, the $4.99 a month is ALL mirroring fees. Yes, leased equipment is also being "warrantied" under that same cost, but depending on the leased equipment you have, you may have paid an up front fee of up to $300 or so that helps defray warranty cost, etc. That's all on D* to set those fees to assure they are still profitable.



SBacklin said:


> I got a question. I pay $41.99 (package), $4.99 (mirroring fee), $5.99 (DVR fee) and $7.99 (insurance fee). If I am understanding this correctly, if I were to be under the new lease agreement when it comes out, I would pay the same, minus the $7.99 insurance fee? Can someone clarify that? I know since I am a current customer that nothing will change for me. I am just wondering if I could save money if I were able to get under the lease agreement someone (did you mean "somehow"?). Just something to think about I guess. Thanks for any information.


That's how I see it. If you got rid of, or in some manner removed any equipment you now own from your account and went strictly with leased equipment, then yes, you would no longer need to pay the $7.99 insurance fee. If you plan to keep your current equipment on your account and want it covered, you would still need to pay the $7.99 for your own equipment. If you wanted to keep your current equipment on your account and not pay to cover it, then just get leased equipment to replace any owned equipment that fails, you could do that, too, and stop paying the $7.99.



butthead said:


> As a previous D* sub wanting to come back to D* how will this effect me obtaining recievers. I have everything i need for a DIY except for the D10's. CSR's has told me i'm not eligible for new sub ppromotions. Will they supply me both d10's, one as a purchase and one for a lease?


In the context of your post, I am not able to tell if you currently have receivers. If your meaning is that you have everything except receivers and need to obtain them (and by D10's I'm assuming just the basic stand alone receivers), any you obtain before 3/1/06 would be purchased and any you obtain after 2/28/06 would be leased. If you are getting two receivers now, they would both be purchased, whether purchased from D* or CC, BB or somewhere else as I see it. The "one purchased/one leased" scenario is a matter of the timing of when they are obtained, it would seem.



theratpatrol said:


> Does this mean that we won't be able to buy receivers at BB and CC anymore?


It will be interesting to see how that shakes out. If the current price of these things are somewhat subsidized by D*, and won't be after 02/06, the price that a retailer would need to charge to make money on them might be a lot more than any "up front" money D* would be charging for those that are leased. The retailers won't get subsidies or commissions on units they sell - if that would make the price too high such that people wouldn't want to buy them they may not sell them flat out anymore. Could be that they would sell them, and even be able to sell them cheap, if that makes good business sense for them.

There still may be a "selling" market for units to those people who want to hack them. Whether that is enough of a market to make worth it for the retailer to sell them is yet to be seen.

As I mentioned, this is just my take on things and not to be construed as coming from any official capacity. Just the way it looks to me from what I have read.


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## redskin9 (Oct 12, 2005)

lee1203 said:


> January 13, 2006
> 
> " The only thing that changes is the terms of the hardware, which will now be leased instead of owned. Upon cancellation/disconnection/termination of their DIRECTV account, they are required to return the equipment per the terms of the Equipment Lease Addendum, which replaces the old programming commitment agreement. If they do so before they have satisfied the programming commitment, they will also be subject to the early cancellation fees. "


If I interpert this correctly early termination will cost you double. Both equipment will be returned and early cancellation fees. In the past you were able to return the equipment in lieu of payment.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

IF YOU LEASE AFTER 3/1/06 you will still be subject to the 1 year or 2year contract but you won't be able to return the equipment early to cancel the early termination penalty. You will have to return the equipment anyways because it belongs to Directv.

No policy has been released about upgrading existing equip. under the lease DISH allows only 1 upgrade per year, and Directv seems to be copying DISH. The lease will only benefit Directv.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Sorry, I'm still confused about my status as a 'do it yourselfer' because the Executive Summary is obviously directed toward D* contractors. 

I have a simple 18 inch dish here and one very basic receiver. I have no ancillary gadgets. I reaim the dish myself a couple of times a year. I don't need a professional installer to be a middleman in a lease agreement with D*. So, if my receiver fails, how will I replace it?

--- CHAS


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## ganz (Jan 18, 2006)

Any idea what the "up front costs" to lease a HD-DVR will be? I'm looking to combine my SD-DVR and HD nonDVR receiver now that they droped in price (around $400 in CT).

I'm thinking that I should buy one, and not open it, at CC/BB a few days prior to the switch from buy to lease and then see what happens. If the up front cost plus monthy fees are less then the purchase price thren return the HD-DVD within the store's return policy. If the up front cost is high then keep my purchase. Does this make sense?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

I have a t60 and a hdtivo. But also an old sony b65 unsubbed. Is there any reason to sub the old sony before March? I know the dvr wont be out for a while, and perhaps that's why they never even approached me to get an upgrade. But i was wondering if there is any advantage to subbing the old receiver now or what happens after March 1 if I'd ever want it turned on.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ganz said:


> Any idea what the "up front costs" to lease a HD-DVR will be? I'm looking to combine my SD-DVR and HD nonDVR receiver now that they droped in price (around $400 in CT).
> 
> I'm thinking that I should buy one, and not open it, at CC/BB a few days prior to the switch from buy to lease and then see what happens. If the up front cost plus monthy fees are less then the purchase price thren return the HD-DVD within the store's return policy. If the up front cost is high then keep my purchase. Does this make sense?


Based on the comparison between the "mirror fees" on owned equipment and the "leased fees" on non-owned equipment, I'd guess the up front fees to be about $599 - $200 mail in rebate.


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## hongcho (Mar 25, 2004)

> 1 HD DVR
> $299 (after $100 mail-in rebate*)
> $0 Lease Fee (no fee for first receiver)
> + $5.99 DVR Service Fee (Whole House)
> ...


Hmm... Let's see if I got this correctly.

A new customer wanting an HD DVR will pay $399 (+tax) upfront. He will get $100 back in MIR. He pays $5.99 + programming each month. BTW, aren't you able to *buy* an HD DVR for $399?

Anyway... After paying $299 upfront (including MIR) and after two years, he decided to go to cable, for example. Now he needs to return his HD DVR?

So, it's the same as now except that he won't have an HD DVR to sell on eBay to recoup his "upfront" cost?

Huh?

Hong.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Series 3 Tivos and cablecards are sounding better all the time.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

The following examples do not explicitely state the upfront cost for leasing an H20 receiver on or after 3/1/06:



lee1203 said:


> New Customer Hardware
> Upfront Hardware Lease Fees
> Total Monthly Costs to Customer
> Commitment Period/Early Cancellation Fee
> ...


However, if my math is correct, it looks like the upfront costs are as follows:

SD receiver = $0
SD DVR = $99
HD receiver = $99
HD DVR = $399

So if one is to purchase an H20 now, it would cost $200 - $200 MIR = $0,
but if one is to lease it in March, it might cost $99 *or* $0 if the MIR is applicable.

The wording about the rebate after 3/1/06 is ambiguous since it does not stipulate whether or not someone who applied for the $100 MIR for the R15 in 11/05 will be eligible for the $100 MIR for a leased H20. However, it is clear that the $100 MIR for the R15 does NOT preclude one from submitting the $200 MIR for the H20 at this time.

Therefore, people who already submitted the $100 MIR for the R15 and want an H20 might want to purchase the H20 before 3/1/06 in order to save themselves $100. Doing this might also allow you to submit the $100 MIR for the HR20 when leasing it once it is released later this year. On the other hand, if you want to lease both an H20 and an HR20, then you will only be able to submit one $100 MIR.

Does anyone have more specific info about the MIR criteria that would help us decide whether or not it would be advantageous to purchase more hardware before 3/1/06?


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## ganz (Jan 18, 2006)

What is the latest HD-DVR? I can only find the HR10-250 for $599 minus $200 MIR.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

it's not out yet...next few months hopefully but it's definitely not a tivo with directv


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## westwood wizard (Dec 22, 2005)

Okay. Once this new contract is implemented, does that mean people who currently own their equipment or people in the future who decide to still buy new receivers from a retailer even at higher prices will not longer have to pay mirroring fees since Directv is moving to a "leasing fee" ? Obviously, if you decide to still buy the receivers then I would assume Directv could not charge you a leasing fee!

So, this could work out very well for those of us who own our receivers ?

This is too good to be true, is it not ?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Equipment purchased prior to 3/1 will still have a mirror fee or additional equipment fee....just like grandfathered DVR users still pay $4.99 vs newer users paying the $5.99. SO yes it is too good to be true since its not true....

You will still pay $4.99/month for each additonal receiver on your account that you own, after 3/1 it will be called a lease fee for new subscribers, or if you get new or upgraded equipment, and they/you wont own the gear, thats the only thing that is changing...


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

CCarncross said:


> Equipment purchased prior to 3/1 will still have a mirror fee or additional equipment fee....just like grandfathered DVR users still pay $4.99 vs newer users paying the $5.99. SO yes it is too good to be true since its not true....
> 
> You will still pay $4.99/month for each additonal receiver on your account that you own, after 3/1 it will be called a lease fee for new subscribers, or if you get new or upgraded equipment, and they/you wont own the gear, thats the only thing that is changing...


You know, I could have sworn reading on one of these forums at one time that the DVR fee was going away when D* brought on their own DVR. Does anyone else remember that, or was that just a rumor?

And whats the purpose of the this DVR fee anyways, is there really anything more D* has to do to a DVR that they already don't do with the stand alone receivers? Its the same guide information, and everything should be self contained within the DVR itself. Just another way for them to generate money I guess.


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## westwood wizard (Dec 22, 2005)

CCarncross said:


> Equipment purchased prior to 3/1 will still have a mirror fee or additional equipment fee....just like grandfathered DVR users still pay $4.99 vs newer users paying the $5.99. SO yes it is too good to be true since its not true....
> 
> You will still pay $4.99/month for each additonal receiver on your account that you own, after 3/1 it will be called a lease fee for new subscribers, or if you get new or upgraded equipment, and they/you wont own the gear, thats the only thing that is changing...


In other words, they will find a way to justify the additional fees no matter what. Leasing/mirroring fees I could have understood as long as the equipment was not purchase outright by me. However, for those that do decide in the future to purchase their own equipment, any additional fees would be rubbish but I understand that they are not going away.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

theratpatrol said:


> You know, I could have sworn reading on one of these forums at one time that the DVR fee was going away when D* brought on their own DVR. Does anyone else remember that, or was that just a rumor?
> 
> And whats the purpose of the this DVR fee anyways, is there really anything more D* has to do to a DVR that they already don't do with the stand alone receivers? Its the same guide information, and everything should be self contained within the DVR itself. Just another way for them to generate money I guess.


Just a guess that they developed software or paid someone to do it and since that software isn't on the regular receivers they want to charge more for the dvrs that do have it to recoup the costs.


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## kayzersoze (Dec 17, 2005)

RCY said:


> YMMV, but for me this is a big mistake by D*. Now once I've finshed 2-year stint for my $100 rebate, there is no real incentive to stay with D* over Dish or the cable cos. Whoever comes up with the best deal is likely to get my $$ now. I liked the fact that with D* I owned the equipment. Now I'll try to ride my DTIVOs until they can't be made to work anymore and go with the best deal.


Why do you care if you own the equipment? If you cancel the svc the rcvrs arejust big paperweights.


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## DannyStraessle (May 3, 2004)

:eek2:


Wolffpack said:


> Series 3 Tivos and cablecards are sounding better all the time.


No DOUBT! But from what I'm reading it sounds as if the D* card that Intel is working on will help us d-i-y people. I'm building an MCE PC and looking forward to trying it out. In the long run, it's more $$$ to get what we want and how we want it, but do you really think D* will be offering HMO on leased equipment?

At least with an MCE PC it seems you can control things like storage and HMO options. And there is not likely to be used or refurbished pci cards for a while I would imagine.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

kayzersoze said:


> Why do you care if you own the equipment? If you cancel the svc the rcvrs arejust big paperweights.


That's paperweights that have value on eBay, or if you decide to go back to D* you will still have your receivers wich is a good thing if those receivers are Tivos.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Joe C said:


> That's paperweights that have value on eBay, or if you decide to go back to D* you will still have your receivers wich is a good thing if those receivers are Tivos.


If you never buy them and only lease, you're not out any money anyway. If you decide to go back to D* a year or more later, you'd want to get the newer/newest receivers D* had to offer, if its less than a year, why the heck did leave in teh 1st place? Being a Tivo unit or not is irrelevent, but anyone that has a Tivo style unit now already owns it, there wont be that many left by the time the lease program starts in a month or so....if you cancelled you wouldnt be able to get your old Tivo fee, you'd automatically be switched to the new higher dvr fee...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

CCarncross said:


> If you never buy them and only lease, you're not out any money anyway.


A $300 up front fee for leasing "Advanced Technology" equipment pretty much equates to the current equipment purchase price. But you can't turn around and sell it if you cancel. You could be out some $$$.


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## ericlhyman (Jul 11, 2003)

If we currently own HD-Tivos that are supposed to be swapped for free for new HD DVRs, will the new units be considered purchased or leased?

Also, it is unfair that owners of purchased units who paid a lot more for them have to pay the same monthly leasing/mirroring fees per unit as those who are just leasing them.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

Eric-

That is exactly what I would like to figure out within the next 30 days or so. 

However, I suspect that the "upgrade" agreement will include some verbiage to the effect that you can keep the HR10 and lease the HR20. Under this model, you would not have to pay the upfront $300 lease fee, but you would still be required to return the HR20 (or pay a certain fee) when you terminate your contract.....

While this is just speculation, I really cannot see D* giving current HR10 owners a break!


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

harsh said:


> They know the physical address that the receivers were issued to *and they ask that you have a phone line connected to the receiver so that the receiver can phone home to let them know that it hasn't moved.*


With Vonage and other VoIP services, having a phone line connected doesn't necessarily mean the address is the same.

Example: I live in NY and order D* service, and I'm a Vonage subscriber. A few months later, I move to CA and keep both my D* and the same telephone number I already had with Vonage. My physical address has changed, the phone number stays the same...


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

matty8199 said:


> With Vonage and other VoIP services, having a phone line connected doesn't necessarily mean the address is the same.
> 
> Example: I live in NY and order D* service, and I'm a Vonage subscriber. A few months later, I move to CA and keep both my D* and the same telephone number I already had with Vonage. My physical address has changed, the phone number stays the same...


... and all of your new friends/acquaintances/co-workers in your new area have to make a long distance call to talk to you. While you do raise a good point, keeping an out-of-market phone number has it's own problems.


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

Kheldar said:


> ... and all of your new friends/acquaintances/co-workers in your new area have to make a long distance call to talk to you. While you do raise a good point, keeping an out-of-market phone number has it's own problems.


It's possible with Vonage to have two numbers ring the same line - you could get a new CA number for your new acquaintances, and still keep the NY number to be local for your old ones (they call it a "Virtual Phone Number")...and I think the fee Vonage charges to do that is only something like $5 a month (very affordable).


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## barrygordon (Jan 30, 2006)

I am a long term D* user with two HR10-250's and several Samsung TS160's

I live in the Orlando FL area, and was told they will be switching to mpeg4 in the spring.

When they switch it is my understanding that all of my current equipment will become useless. D* has indicated that they will be "upgrading/replacing" my current equipment from the "Antenna in", and that includes all DVR's, receivers, Multiswitches, etc.

My question now is: Will all that new stuff be on the "Lease plan", or do I get replacements which will now work with the MPEG4 system and are "Mine" i.e. I own them.

Even more fundamentally, will my old equipment continue to work getting just what it got before, and if I stay with it will I just be missing new offerings from the new Mpeg4 based sats?

The Series 3 Tivo is looking better all the time. I hate Rain fade especially since my average SAT strength is generally above 95% on all transponders. My evaluation of cable says their digital signals are as good as D*,there is no rain fade, but when there is an outage it is for hours (pole fade), and the series 3 Tivo will work by FCC mandate.

Any help, advice appreciated


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

I'd hold off on any upgrade that adds to it a 2 year committment at this point. Just my $.02 worth.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

at least until you find out for sure what the penalties are for canceling. In the old days all you had to do was return equipment. Not sure now.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

barrygordon said:


> When they switch it is my understanding that all of my current equipment will become useless.


That is the way things are when you buy the equipment.


> My question now is: Will all that new stuff be on the "Lease plan", or do I get replacements which will now work with the MPEG4 system and are "Mine" i.e. I own them.


They've been pretty clear that the new equipment will be leased. I'm sure you will be no exception.


> Even more fundamentally, will my old equipment continue to work getting just what it got before, and if I stay with it will I just be missing new offerings from the new Mpeg4 based sats?


Your current equipment may be excluded from locals but it should continue to work otherwise.


> The Series 3 Tivo is looking better all the time. I hate Rain fade especially since my average SAT strength is generally above 95% on all transponders. My evaluation of cable says their digital signals are as good as D*,there is no rain fade, but when there is an outage it is for hours (pole fade), and the series 3 Tivo will work by FCC mandate.


First off, don't put all of your eggs in the S3 basket. It may well be a year before they are ready for prime time. I certainly encourage you to take the DBS comparison charts at http://charts.dbstalk.com and compare them carefully with your local cable provider(s). Since Comcast doesn't seem to be in your area, TiVo S3 looks like the only TiVo option on the horizon. Be aware that government mandates never insure that you will get what you're supposed to.

Also, make sure that before you make any changes, that TiVo is supporting your cable vendor and that the price is reasonable. I'm pretty sure that they haven't announced S3 subscription pricing, if different, yet. There is substantial unsubstantiated speculation that the subsidy level may be greater for S3 subscribers.


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## barrygordon (Jan 30, 2006)

Harsh, Thanks for the cogent reply. 

I really like the Tivo software, and I do like DirecTV as a customer focused (IMHO) supplier. The bottom line is picture/audio quality and obviously cost. I just finished a detailed cost analysis. On apples to apples for my program selections it is just about a break even.

However If I go with cable, drop D*, Drop DSL, Drop Landline Phone except for lifeline svc, add VoIP, I get much higher Internet bandwidth and my cable company is in the process of going "All Digital"

The bottom cost line is a $60/month savings for similar A/V (Identical programming), Higher Internet speed (1 meg vs 5 meg), and 29.95 / month fixed phone rate in Conus.

I will wait and see how it all falls out.


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## kay (Nov 27, 2005)

harsh said:


> They know the physical address that the receivers were issued to and they ask that you have a phone line connected to the receiver so that the receiver can phone home to let them know that it hasn't moved.
> 
> As for the property tax issue, I don't think receivers qualify.


I know the number the receiver calls from and the physical address have no correlation - plenty of people have work numbers, cell numbers, etc, listed as primary contacts, and it dosen't seem to affect them at all. Receivers don't need to be connected to phone lines for anything but pay per view and other interactive things (DVR's aside).

As far as this whole lease issue goes - it might be a step in the _right_ direction if service calls are covered with the lease (who knows on that though)


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

How in the world does it make sense to try to get a new customer by telling them it's 300 up front for a DVR and if you cancel in a week, you lost that 300 bucks? Are there any marketing majors out there that can explain this to me in terms I can understand?  Even paying 600 list for a tivo today, you can get 200 back and then sell for a decent price used if you cancel directv.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

newsposter said:


> How in the world does it make sense to try to get a new customer by telling them it's 300 up front for a DVR and if you cancel in a week, you lost that 300 bucks?


Did they say that this fee wasn't refundable? Is it listed in some terms and conditions?


> Even paying 600 list for a tivo today, you can get 200 back and then sell for a decent price used if you cancel directv.


Two things to keep in mind:

1. Buying DirecTiVo is buying damaged goods as they don't do MPEG4 which is required for LIL in several areas. How long D* continues to offer their inexpensive DirecTiVo services is the subject of great debate.

2. In theory, you will not be able to buy a DirecTV MPEG4 DVR. They will be charging a similar (in principle if not in amount) entry fee to a lease. These receivers will likely not be TiVo (at least not the $4.95/month DirecTiVo value).

When comparing fresh apples to fresh apples everything looks pretty similar except you can lease a ViP622 today and you'll have to wait a while for an as yet unannounced product for D*.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

harsh said:


> Did they say that this fee wasn't refundable? Is it listed in some terms and conditions?Two things to keep in mind:
> 
> 1. Buying DirecTiVo is buying damaged goods as they don't do MPEG4 which is required for LIL in several areas. How long D* continues to offer their inexpensive DirecTiVo services is the subject of great debate.
> 
> ...


If it's refundable then i'll shut up and everyone would be happy as we have nothing to lose. Ditto with the early termination penalty, which I doubt they would ever waive. However since no one knows, we wait.

Also I hope you dont literally mean HDtivo is damaged goods. If the unit is in working order, and you get OTA, it's well worth 5 bucks a month even as an OTA HD recorder alone. Add to it, all the new NON network HD channels, which WILL be in mpeg2 until the turn off, and you have a very usable and legally upgradable unit for a long time.


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

You know, it's Valentine's Day and they have nothing on their website about it yet...I mean, it's < 15 days away!!

Anyway, while the lease wouldn't have worked out for me in the past (I've had the same basic HIRD-E1 receivers for 5 years now and they still work fine. Besides the BS mirroring fee, I've certainly made out by purchasing them originally (and they were probably mostly free when I did). However, with all these DVR/HD/MPEG 4/etc. upgrades, I'm thinking this leasing thing might be a good idea. Especially now because I'm looking at the 5 LNB dish, which doesn't currently have a DVR model. If I lease, I think I understand it that they would just swap it out per my lease when it's available. That makes sense, right?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

DonCorleone said:


> If I lease, I think I understand it that they would just swap it out per my lease when it's available. That makes sense, right?


we are all hoping that. To pay X up front fee, one would expect a FREE swap, not another X fee when you need to convert.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

harsh said:


> 1. Buying DirecTiVo is buying damaged goods as they don't do MPEG4 which is required for LIL in several areas. How long D* continues to offer their inexpensive DirecTiVo services is the subject of great debate.


I think "damaged goods" is a bit of a strech. In my case I have no need for the 4 HD locals DTV will offer over MPEG4 as I receive all of my HD locals fine OTA on my HD DTivo. Plus I'm not 100% convinced DTV will be able to "pull off" even 4 HD locals in over 50 markets by year end without quality suffering.

As far as continuing to offer DTivo services, I've not heard any great debate. Please let me in on a source for this debate. There are millions of DTivo units out there. DTV isn't going to pull the plug on these customers any time soon. UTV customers still receive service from DTV and those were discontinued...what...2-3 years ago?



harsh said:


> 2. In theory, you will not be able to buy a DirecTV MPEG4 DVR. They will be charging a similar (in principle if not in amount) entry fee to a lease. These receivers will likely not be TiVo (at least not the $4.95/month DirecTiVo value).


No, these will not be Tivo units.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

DonCorleone said:


> You know, it's Valentine's Day and they have nothing on their website about it yet...I mean, it's < 15 days away!!


They still have the "70 hour" SD-DVR80 on their site as their SD DVR, that was 3 units ago. Do you seriously think they are going to update their site to have the lease information if they aren't even updating the hardware they sell on their site? lol


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Their site is pretty poor in general. They need an update.


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

You're not kidding. I went there again last night and still nothing of usefulness. I was surprised, however, to see that they had updated the site with TNT HD.

I called the 800 line, though, and they told me that, as an existing customer, they would give me an H20, new dish, and installation all for $99 (basically the H20 is free with the rebate and they'll give me the dish for free). I was considering doing it, but am still wondering if I should wait for the lease plan to kick in.

Any chance they'll still give me the dish for free post 3/1 and I only have to pay the $99 installation and then the monthly leasing fee? I'm hesitating b/c I'm now considering the DVR unit in June. Their customer service dept. seems to give me a different answer everytime I call (last time they told me the whole thing would cost me $330)



newsposter said:


> Their site is pretty poor in general. They need an update.


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

First post. lots of good info here!

I just got off the phone with D*, I intended on getting an HDtivo. After much haggling, arguing with a supervisor about HD picture quality, I managed to get their 'best' deal. 189.00 after rebate,discount, and programming credit. No thanks. I'll still be paying taxes on 600 bucks, plus waiting on a rebate that may or may not come. No thanks.

After all that the supervisor admits that on March 1st that everything is going to change, and in her words, " the HDtivo will almost certainly be cheaper." I told her it had better be FREE because Charter Cable is going to fix me up with a HD DVR, service, 10.00 credit on my cable modem. For less per month than D*, with NO UPFRONT cost. Cable even offered to waive 50 buck install if I did it today.

She didn't know what to say. Well, except the line about having 150 HD channels in the next year and if I go to cable I won't get them.... :nono2: 

So that lease offer on March first better be dang good.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

stogie5150 said:


> First post. lots of good info here!
> 
> I just got off the phone with D*, I intended on getting an HDtivo. After much haggling, arguing with a supervisor about HD picture quality, I managed to get their 'best' deal. 189.00 after rebate,discount, and programming credit. No thanks. I'll still be paying taxes on 600 bucks, plus waiting on a rebate that may or may not come. No thanks.
> 
> ...


First error by Directv CSR the 150 HD channels is by the end of 2007 that's almost 2 years . The HD DVR is looking like $499 not free and maybe a $100 rebate off that price, no where near competetive with CABLE.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

boba said:


> First error by Directv CSR the 150 HD channels is by the end of 2007 that's almost 2 years . The HD DVR is looking like $499 not free and maybe a $100 rebate off that price, no where near competetive with CABLE.


Plus only 4 of those 150 HD channels are available to any one customer. Just locals.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Plus only 4 of those 150 HD channels are available to any one customer. Just locals.


YOu skipped the part about the 1500 Local HD channels, the 150 number is supposedly national HDs.....so they would be available to all with the right equipment and subscription...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Are there even 150 national HD channels to carry?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

CCarncross said:


> YOu skipped the part about the 1500 Local HD channels, the 150 number is supposedly national HDs.....so they would be available to all with the right equipment and subscription...


at least until mpeg2 is shut off...all those natl HDs will be in mpeg2


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Wolffpack said:


> Are there even 150 national HD channels to carry?


Not counting E*'s 15 exclusive Voom offerings, I think there are about 28 including HBO, Showtime, Skinamax, Starz and TMC (currently there is no Encore HD).

I don't think they have nearly the CONUS bandwidth to pull half of that number off even if it is all HDLite. The full bandwidth won't be available until they park both DirecTV 10 and DirecTV 11 some time next year. They're very slowly getting Spaceway 2 (spotbeam only, 500 HD locals when combined with Spaceway 1) settled in which was about six months late getting off the ground.


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## churdie (May 4, 2003)

i joined on 2-16 last week before the lease only starts on March 1 will i be able to "grandfathered" and avoid a lease fee or will have to pay a lease fee for what i assumed was going to be win after 2 yrs


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

AFAIK, only new equipment acquired and activated on or after March 1 will be leased equipment, which you will still be able to buy but at a higher price than current pricing....for anyone with existing equipment, that activates new equipment after they will have a mixed account with some leased and some owned gear....the leased gear should be automatically covered for failures, hte owned equipment would only have the original warranty coverage unless you have a protection plan.....


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

churdie said:


> or will have to pay a lease fee for what i assumed was going to be win after 2 yrs


I'm not exactly sure what that last question is really asking, but any equipment you've purchased prior to March 1 will not have a lease fee. It will, however, have a mirroring (additional receiver) fee, as things do now, if it is not your main, or primary, receiver. Either way, leased or owned, there will be a $4.99 monthly fee for each receiver beyond the first one. How that fee is classified depends on the own/lease status of the receiver.


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

stogie5150 said:


> First post. lots of good info here!
> 
> I just got off the phone with D*, I intended on getting an HDtivo. After much haggling, arguing with a supervisor about HD picture quality, I managed to get their 'best' deal. 189.00 after rebate,discount, and programming credit. No thanks. I'll still be paying taxes on 600 bucks, plus waiting on a rebate that may or may not come. No thanks.
> 
> ...


UPDATE:

I decided to check out the local Charter Cable picture quality and HD box......oh man....They are using Moxi boxes and they only have 12 hours of HD storage....the SD picture is TERRIBLE, it was nasty on a TUBE TV so I don't think it would be worth a darn on my Panny Plasma...

-SO-

Last night at 11:00 I pulled the trigger on the HDTivo. Got the same deal, they even credited me my TAX back on my account, and gave me 6 months of Showtime, which I never will watch, but its something.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

stogie5150 said:


> and gave me 6 months of Showtime, which I never will watch, but its something.


SHO HD isn't that bad. Not as good as ota but movies sure do look better than on SD..enjoy!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Since the Leasing Plan is now here,
All continuing discussion should be in THIS thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=53934

Or start a new thread for a specific topic about the leasing.


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