# installation tomorrow ... any gotchas?



## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

hey guys-

I have been hanging out over in the DirecTV part of this forum for a month, while waiting on my HR20 & new dish install. Well that whole situation went bust and DirecTV struck out with me, so I have Dish Net guys coming to install a VIP622 & new dish tomorrow.

The CSR seemed to think my installation was going to be a snap and they would be able to use my existing wiring no problem. I figured I'd double check here.

The house is a rather large house and the dish is necessarily on the opposite corner of the house from the TV room. The wiring layout of the house has the dish wiring running from the back corner of the house up to the front corner about 75 ft, then through conduit into the house into a "home run" panel about 50 ft of cable into the house, then from the home run panel about another 50 ft or so of cable to each TV location. There is only one cable running from each TV location to this home run panel, and it's all copper-clad steel RG6. This particular layout was a major problem for DirecTV. I am told (by Dish Network CSR) that it is no sweat for Dish.

What they are planning to install is a "two room" system with one VIP622 for 2 TVs. They say my current wiring setup is adequate and will allow me to record 2 channels at once off of the dish (plus one OTA) and also run a signal to the second TV. If I understand it correctly, there will have to be some kind of splitter to make the one wire going from the wall to the 622 split into two, so it can run into both tuner inputs (right?). Also some kind of stacker or diplexer would have to be used then to back-feed the TV2 signal onto this wire, where at the home run panel, some kind of "de-stacker" would have to be used to take that signal to the other TV.

I tried to draw some ASCII diagrams but they don't work. Is there any kind of diagrams anywhere for the wiring of a dual-room VIP622 system like this on the web? I did a search here and over at dish network's site and found nothing helpful. I would like to be prepared for the installation.

What else should I expect? The option of running additional wiring is pretty much not possible due to the construction of the house.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

First off, don't take much stock at what a CSR says about installations. There's a chance that they know something, but it isn't very good.

Second, you need to keep an open mind about how things should be done (or be prepared to cancel). The single cable issue shouldn't be a problem for Dish while it is indeed a deal breaker at this time for DirecTV.

The device that is used to send the RF signals back to your distribution system is a diplexer. It can also be used to feed an OTA signal to the ViP622 if everything is set up correctly.

With your proposed setup, there is no need for switches. You need only one wire from the dish to the receiver. There will be a diplexer at the distribution box and one at the back of the ViP622 to "backfeed" the second television.

I can't tell you if the cable is going to be a problem, but it is a rather long run.

Usually, the goal is to install the dish as close as possible to your electric service entrance. It saves a whole lot of frustration with properly grounding the dish and the cable.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

well the problem is the electric service entrance is on the front of the house and the HOA restrictions require that the dish be mounted where it is not visible from the front. So the current DirecTV dish (which has been there for 6+ years working great) is installed at the back of the house and is grounded to a nearby ground rod (6' copper near a water faucet). It's about 12 ft from the dish. I don't think this should be a problem.

Are you saying that both tuner inputs do not have to be connected for the VIP622 to work correctly? Some posts I have read on this forum seem to be to the contrary. Don't they have something like a "DP Plus Separator" or something that has to go in there?

Sounds like it should be a simple install.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

The installer may go with anything that gets the job done, depending on lots of things. You can find more info on the DPP Twin at http://ekb.dbstalk.com/twin.htm#dpp but the links don't take you to info on using the Diplexer already mentioned. Google Diplexer will get you a lot of reading. I thought I had a link to a wiring diagram with diplexers in use but I can't seem to find it at the moment. Something at http://search.solidsignal.com/?q=diplexer&site=com&new_search=1 would probably cover it.

The Separator itself takes the single coax from the dish and feeds both Sat tuners. It too is actually a diplexer, but a different split of the frequency into 950-1450 and 1650-2150.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

Thanks CABill, that's very helpful. I know what a Diplexer does  I figured that's what they'd use but didn't know whether they were transmitting the sigal to the other TV as regular old RF mod tv signal. I guess that makes sense.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Your home, your dish, put it where it works best HOA can not tell you where to put it


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

yeah, I want it on the back of the house. If the DirecTV system was working this way, why wouldn't the dish system work with the same location? And FWIW the HOA can certainly tell you where to put it, considering anyone who is a member is in a binding agreement with them to abide by the rules. They cannot trump the FCC ruling on antennas but they can require you to put them out of sight from the road.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

The only problem I have had with long wire runs has been with the second tuner. With long wire runs you can have poor picture quality on the second TV. Usually this can be corrected by using the lowest channel setting in the modulator setup. If not you can correct it with a distribution amplifier.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

CABill said:


> The installer may go with anything that gets the job done, depending on lots of things.


This is SO true.

When I had my install done last month the installer first put up a 1000.2, checked signal strengths on 129 and was not happy with the results. He pulled the 1000.2 off the roof and put up two 500's. Now my signal strength is around 90. He spent 3.5 hours doing the install and was very methodical. Excellent service.

As far as the HOA goes. I had a similar situation, they wanted it in X spot I wanted it in Y spot. They caved, I won.

-Funk


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

TV2 will get a UHF channel (or 2 if you enable TV1 output on the Home Distribution) in the 21-69 range. The frequency range CABill mentioned is what the DPP Separator uses to feed each of the sat tuners.

Diplexer diagram: go to Tech Portal > Receivers > ViP622 > Install > Images & Wiring Setups > DPP Twin W/Diplexers.

I don't know if it's possible to run the TV2 backfeed up the same cable that's bringing in OTA. If your TV2 is close enough, you could instead use red/white/yellow A/V cords.


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## Don_S (Jul 5, 2005)

BobaBird said:


> I don't know if it's possible to run the TV2 backfeed up the same cable that's bringing in OTA. If your TV2 is close enough, you could instead use red/white/yellow A/V cords.


It *IS* possible to run the TV2 backfeed up the same cable that's bringing in OTA. I have mine setup exactly in that manner. I have ONE cable going to the 622 carrying the satellite signal AND the OTA feed. That same cable also carries the TV2 backfeed down to the basement from where it is sent to TV2 after amplification.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Don_S said:


> It *IS* possible to run the TV2 backfeed up the same cable that's bringing in OTA.


Could you describe the coax and splitter/combiner connections after it leaves the diplexer? I ran into trouble (quite some time back).


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## Don_S (Jul 5, 2005)

A picture is worth a 1000 words, so here goes....it is only a rough hand-written sketch, but should convey the information. This was a diagram I made a couple of years ago when I first installed the 942, but that has since been replaced by the 622 and the 811 has been replaced by the 211.

The red line shows the path of the OTA signal, the green is the backfeed signal and the blue is the satellite signal (all carried on the same coax cable). Click on the image you get after you click on the thumbnail to enlarge it even more.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

What stops the backfeed from going out to the antenna?
Someone in the direction your antenna is pointing may be able to watch your TV!


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## Don_S (Jul 5, 2005)

James Long said:


> What stops the backfeed from going out to the antenna?
> Someone in the direction your antenna is pointing may be able to watch your TV!


Nothing, really. If someone can watch what's on my TV, more power to them! I will think of it as a "charitable" act on my part  Seriously though, the power output on the TV2 backfeed through the antenna is probably not even enough to make it beyond the boundaries of my property. In fact, the reception on TV2 (which is obviously directly connected to the backfeed output) was pretty poor, which is why I had to add the amplifier.


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

As I found out recently, make sure they ground it properly. Don't let them take shortcuts, which a lot of installers will do if you're not looking. Here's a good write-up on grounding a dish.

http://www.dbsinstall.com/whatis/Whatisgood-5.asp


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## 585960 (Feb 4, 2007)

Todd H said:


> As I found out recently, make sure they ground it properly. Don't let them take shortcuts, which a lot of installers will do if you're not looking. Here's a good write-up on grounding a dish.
> 
> http://www.dbsinstall.com/whatis/Whatisgood-5.asp


Right. But remember techs aren't miracle workers, your residence has to be up to code first. Lighten up a bit.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

everything posted here makes me think my install this afternoon will be smooth as silk. Thanks for all the info. My one reservation is regarding the quality of video/audio going to TV2 thru the RF-modulated output. Seems like a recipe for junk quality but hey, that downstairs TV in our house is mono audio thru a little speaker and has pretty crummy picture quality, not to mention the fact that since the kids and wife control it most of the time, the color saturation, brightness and contrast are all turned WAY WAAAAY too high for it to look good anyway.

Thanks for all the input. I am actually feeling fairly optimistic about this afternoon. Suffice to say my expectation for DirecTV installation a week ago was less than optimistic and turned out far worse than I had anticipated. Let's hope this goes well today. It seems Dish has a much better system design for existing home wiring compared to DirecTV.

See ya-


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Don_S said:


> A picture is worth a 1000 words, so here goes....it is only a rough hand-written sketch, but should convey the information.


Appreciated - thanks! The backfeed and 8VSB go to Outputs on the splitter with the Diplexer on the Input (that splitter is drawn differently)? That's really close to what I was trying, but I didn't even have my 942 at the time and was using an agile modulator with three sets of composite inputs in addition to a coax in. I eventually sent my kid under the house for the 2nd coax run but was always ticked that I couldn't get it to work.


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## Don_S (Jul 5, 2005)

CABill said:


> Appreciated - thanks! The backfeed and 8VSB go to Outputs on the splitter with the Diplexer on the Input (that splitter is drawn differently)?


It's drawn differently because that is what it actually looks like. I was trying to keep things straight for the sake of my sanity  so that I could easily identify what was what if ever I needed to monkey with it in the future :lol:


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

585960 said:


> Right. But remember techs aren't miracle workers, your residence has to be up to code first. Lighten up a bit.


Nevermind.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

So you had problems, things happen, relax, move on. I had good installs first time was when I had DirecTV installed. The 2nd was when I had Dishnetwork installed and a third good one was when Dish upraded me to see 61.5....
Another good install when they changed me over to Dishpro technology and then added in a DPP44.

Did I have service calls? Yes I had to have SW64 switches replaced, warranty pays for all repairs for me

I've had Dish since the 2700 was a new model. I've had different installers/repairmen. The main differnce is that if I get a DNSC service tech their trucks are better stocked.


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## 585960 (Feb 4, 2007)

Todd H said:


> Nevermind.


ok.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

well they just finished. It was painless. Everything is working great as far as I can tell. The only thing is some HD channels were not tuning in quickly or at all just yet but I had to run before checking them all out (never saw a picture on A&E HD). black screen. I gave it about 30 seconds, then I had to run. Will check it again when I get home.

Everything works according to plan but the picture on the "TV2" is crap using the RF-modulated thing. The composite input on that TV from the DirecTV receiver wasy about 1000% better. I don't know if there's anything to be done to improve that. They set it up for channel 25. There's about 300 ft. of RG6 between the two TVs.


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## Don_S (Jul 5, 2005)

Mr.72 said:


> well they just finished. It was painless. Everything is working great as far as I can tell. The only thing is some HD channels were not tuning in quickly or at all just yet but I had to run before checking them all out (never saw a picture on A&E HD). black screen. I gave it about 30 seconds, then I had to run. Will check it again when I get home.
> 
> Everything works according to plan but the picture on the "TV2" is crap using the RF-modulated thing. The composite input on that TV from the DirecTV receiver wasy about 1000% better. I don't know if there's anything to be done to improve that. They set it up for channel 25. There's about 300 ft. of RG6 between the two TVs.


I noticed a *significant* improvement in PQ on TV2 using an amplifier. It is a 25db amplifier (I think it is the Skywalker brand, but not sure.. I'm at work now). 300 ft of RG6 is quite a lot and I would be surprised if you got a good picture on TV2 without an amp.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

they put the diplexer up on the dish. I tried to talk them into putting it in the house. Maybe I'll move it myself. That'd cut 200ft of cable or more out of the equation.


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## 585960 (Feb 4, 2007)

Why would they put the diplexer at the dish? Because the line from TV2 hit a homerun from there? If so, yes drop the diplexer to where the lines are closer (both TV 1 and 2) and put it there. Some techs............


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

they'll be out here tomorrow to re-aim the dish. i will have them pull the diplexer off the dish and relocate it while they are here. i think they put it up there simply because they could.


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