# Hard Drive Upgrade - Internal or External



## al4 (Sep 6, 2008)

I just got an HR21-200 and was looking to upgrade the drive. I have a Seagate Barracuda ES.2 1000GB drive.

I am comfortable with opening up electronics (I did my TiVo HD with no issues). I would rather it be powered by the HD DVR and not be external to save space and another power plug on my power switch. 

What is the "preferred" method?


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

External via eSATA.

Chances are your unit is leased, aka you should not open it and if you do you possibly will be charged the full retail price (around $500-$700) if you ever need to get it replaced or when you terminate service.

If you want to run that risk, it is up to you


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## al4 (Sep 6, 2008)

Aren't all units technically "leased"?

However I'm sure in an Antec MX-1 the drive might stay a bit cooler, it just takes up extra space unless I got creative and moved it out of the way.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

al4 said:


> Aren't all units technically "leased"?
> 
> However I'm sure in an Antec MX-1 the drive might stay a bit cooler, it just takes up extra space unless I got creative and moved it out of the way.


No, before March 06 receivers were owned and you can still buy receivers at full price (such as the HR21PRO) and get them owned, all though it can be hard to get them activated as owned since Directv is used to leasing for everything now.

Most likely it would stay a bit cooler, plus the MX-1 matches nicely with the black HR21 units


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## Janice (Sep 8, 2008)

Grentz said:


> External via eSATA.
> 
> Chances are your unit is leased, aka you should not open it and if you do you possibly will be charged the full retail price (around $500-$700) if you ever need to get it replaced or when you terminate service.


Hi, I'm new here and this seems a little odd to me. 

So why would opening up the receiver equate to being charged anything assuming the product is returned in the same electro-mechanical condition it was leased with?

If I lease a new car and add headers to it everything is copacetic providing I return the car with the original equipment.

I'm also thinking of replacing the onboard HD with something decent. From just looking in the case I really don't even need to take the HD out as I can just plug in a standard SATA cable to the motherboard.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Janice said:


> Hi, I'm new here and this seems a little odd to me.
> 
> So why would opening up the receiver equate to being charged anything assuming the product is returned in the same electro-mechanical condition it was leased with?
> 
> ...


:welcome_s to DBSTalk.
While it might not "equate" to being charged, you violate the lease agreement and could be liable for the charge.
Given the eSATA option which doesn't, it's seen as the preferred method.
This forum works with DirecTV [thou not owned or supported] and as such "try" to stay within their guidelines.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Your customer agreement does not allow you to modify the leased equipment in any way. Also there is a tamper-evident sticker on the DVR. If you have tampered with your DVR, they are completely within the scope of their agreement to charge you over $470 in fees. 

Folks, do so at your own risk, that's all I can say. You won't get a lot of support in this forum for doing something that voids your customer agreement. If you are dead set on replacing your hard drive and your equipment is owned, you'll find some threads here on how to do it. It's not terribly hard but the drives are not designed to be replaced in the field and there's a big risk of fouling things up in there. 

Take it from me. I built my first PC in 1989 and I was modding 8-bit hardware for about 5 years before that. I've been inside a DIRECTV DVR -- with their permission -- and pulling the drive's not as easy as you'd think. There's a lot of stuff in there that isn't meant to be dealt with by the end user.


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## Janice (Sep 8, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> :welcome_s to DBSTalk.
> While it might not "equate" to being charged, you violate the lease agreement and could be liable for the charge.
> Given the eSATA option which doesn't, it's seen as the preferred method.
> This forum works with DirecTV [thou not owned or supported] and as such "try" to stay within their guidelines.


Okay that makes more sense. I was just thinking that the drive would be much faster with a native SATA solution as opposed to being put through an additional eSATA port. Also there zero problems with using any SATA drive.

So supposing I go with the external solution what would be a good recommendation for an external RAID setup? I was thinking of using four (4) 1 Tb drives in a RAID mirroring and striping setup.


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## Janice (Sep 8, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Your customer agreement does not allow you to modify the leased equipment in any way. Also there is a tamper-evident sticker on the DVR. If you have tampered with your DVR, they are completely within the scope of their agreement to charge you over $470 in fees.
> 
> Folks, do so at your own risk, that's all I can say. You won't get a lot of support in this forum for doing something that voids your customer agreement. If you are dead set on replacing your hard drive and your equipment is owned, you'll find some threads here on how to do it. It's not terribly hard but the drives are not designed to be replaced in the field and there's a big risk of fouling things up in there.
> 
> Take it from me. I built my first PC in 1989 and I was modding 8-bit hardware for about 5 years before that. I've been inside a DIRECTV DVR -- with their permission -- and pulling the drive's not as easy as you'd think. There's a lot of stuff in there that isn't meant to be dealt with by the end user.


Warning is heeded, but mine seems to be missing any sticker :scratchin :grin:

I have also been building computers since before there was anything even called a PC. Also like to OC and watercool If I thought it would run a smidgen better.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Janice, take a look at the back panel near the top center. That's where a sticker would be. If there isn't one, well, there isn't one. 

I don't think you'll be able to overclock the DVR, although thanks for the grin when I thought about it


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Read/write speeds aren't going to improve the performance of the DVR.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Ooh...OCing a DirecTV DVR...hey...let's go water cooling and put lots of neon on the sides. Hmm...why stop with OC...how about we hang a NOS cannister on the side and really fire things up.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

A flame job would be cool too. And maybe some spinners!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> A flame job would be cool too. And maybe some spinners!


I'd just be happy with "dual pipes" [yeah I'm very old school] :lol:


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'd just be happy with "dual pipes" [yeah I'm very old school] :lol:


VOS,

I'll bet you have some pink, fuzzy, dice hanging off your remote.


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## Janice (Sep 8, 2008)

Ken S said:


> Ooh...OCing a DirecTV DVR...hey...let's go water cooling and put lots of neon on the sides. Hmm...why stop with OC...how about we hang a NOS cannister on the side and really fire things up.


Great minds really do think alike :eek2:

I got this really nice Aqua Computer external water cooling unit that would be perfectly matched to the HR21-200 case. Question is whether I get much faster processing and would I see better performance.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> VOS,
> 
> I'll bet you have some pink, fuzzy, dice hanging off your remote.


Tuck and Roll man....:lol:


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## garbec (Aug 23, 2007)

al4 said:


> I just got an HR21-200 and was looking to upgrade the drive. What is the "preferred" method?


Al4,

You have quite a few people here trying to convince you to go external. I disagree, when I add my 1TB it will definetly be internal. If you read a little, you will find some external users complaining that their external drives get formated ocasionally and occasionally are not recognized. My thinking is "why not?" The only time the lease lliability comes into play is if you damage the unit during the swap. I have read the instructions, it doesn't seem all that risky to me.


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## greynolds (Aug 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Folks, do so at your own risk, that's all I can say. You won't get a lot of support in this forum for doing something that voids your customer agreement. If you are dead set on replacing your hard drive and your equipment is owned, you'll find some threads here on how to do it.


It certainly makes sense that the forum wouldn't want to be overly supportive of modifying leased receivers given the relationship with DTV. But...



> It's not terribly hard but the drives are not designed to be replaced in the field and there's a big risk of fouling things up in there.
> 
> Take it from me. I built my first PC in 1989 and I was modding 8-bit hardware for about 5 years before that. I've been inside a DIRECTV DVR -- with their permission -- and pulling the drive's not as easy as you'd think. There's a lot of stuff in there that isn't meant to be dealt with by the end user.


I haven't opened a regular HR21 or HR20, but I have opened one of my HR21 Pros (this one ended up staying with me after I received a warranty replacement because this one kept overheating and rebooting - DTV didn't want it back). Since I owned it AND it wasn't working, I figured I had nothing to lose by opening it up. Other than needing a security torx bit to get inside, replacing the hard drive is extremely simple to do. I honestly feel that the risk of fouling things up is being blown completely out of proportion. Anyone who can install a hard drive or expansion card into a PC should have no problem swapping the hard drives in these DVR's if they feel so inclined. Just be aware of the potential financial penalties if DTV decides to bill you for a modified lease unit.

I'd much rather swap the drives internally rather than use an external case. Doing so will use a little less power (one powered drive instead of 2) and save room in my already overflowing stereo cabinets. Since I own all 3 of my HR21 Pro's and my HR21, I have no problem at all swapping out the internal drives once the 90 day warranties are expired.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

greynolds said:


> I haven't opened a regular HR21 or HR20, but I have opened one of my HR21 Pros (this one ended up staying with me after I received a warranty replacement because this one kept overheating and rebooting - DTV didn't want it back). Since I owned it AND it wasn't working, I figured I had nothing to lose by opening it up. Other than needing a security torx bit to get inside, replacing the hard drive is extremely simple to do. I honestly feel that the risk of fouling things up is being blown completely out of proportion. Anyone who can install a hard drive or expansion card into a PC should have no problem swapping the hard drives in these DVR's if they feel so inclined. Just be aware of the potential financial penalties if DTV decides to bill you for a modified lease unit.


There are several models of HR2xs that are different inside.. some are easier than others..


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

garbec said:


> Al4,
> 
> You have quite a few people here trying to convince you to go external. I disagree, when I add my 1TB it will definetly be internal. If you read a little, you will find some external users complaining that their external drives get formated ocasionally and occasionally are not recognized. My thinking is "why not?" The only time the lease lliability comes into play is if you damage the unit during the swap. I have read the instructions, it doesn't seem all that risky to me.


DOn't forget that there are also quite a few that have had the original internal HD's reformatted occasionally....so its really not a good analogy....


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## vandergraff (Sep 26, 2007)

I replaced an internal drive in an HR20-100 with a Seagate 1TB ( ST1000340AS-RK). There is no security sticker on the HR20-100's (I have three) and the replacement took maybe 15 minutes using the intructions here

If I ever have to return the box it will take 15 minutes to put the original hard drive back. For me this is much better then having an external drive to fit with my other equipment.

I should add the HR20-100 internal temperature has stayed pretty much the same as before at ~104 even during a Northern CA heatwave last week. It looks like the latest generation 1TB Seagate drives are not generating any more heat (or noise) the the original 320GB drive


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Janice said:


> Hi, I'm new here and this seems a little odd to me.
> 
> So why would opening up the receiver equate to being charged anything assuming the product is returned in the same electro-mechanical condition it was leased with?
> 
> ...


Opening the unit does not equate to being charged the purchase price for the unit. That claim is often repeated in these forums despite the fact that the terms of the lease agreement says no such thing, and despite the fact that nobody has ever posted here saying that it happened to them.

Opening the unit does void the warranty according to the sticker that is on the back of some (but not all) units, but even then, nobody has ever complained here that DirecTV has refused to honor the warranty by claiming that the unit had been opened. Since not all units even come with the warranty seal sticker, I doubt that DirecTV even pays attention to it. The warranty expires after 90 days anyway, so it's not that big a deal.

As for replacing the internal disk, that may or may not violate the lease agreement. I contend that hooking up a replacement disk to the internal SATA connector isn't materially different from hooking it up to the external SATA connector and therefore it doesn't violate the clause in the lease agreement against modifying the receiver any more than plugging in an external disk does. It's really irrelevant anyway, since the lease agreement does not provide for any monetary penalties if the lease agreement is violated.

The "modifications" of the receivers that DirecTV is concerned about preventing are mods that are done for the purpose of theft of service (i.e. receiving programming without paying for it), that is a crime, and in those cases DirecTV has been known to aggressively pursue violators in civil court seeking back payment for the stolen services plus payment for other costs and damages.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

greynolds said:


> I'd much rather swap the drives internally rather than use an external case. Doing so will use a little less power (one powered drive instead of 2) and save room in my already overflowing stereo cabinets. Since I own all 3 of my HR21 Pro's and my HR21, I have no problem at all swapping out the internal drives once the 90 day warranties are expired.


Just out of curiosity, why would you purchase four DVRs at those high prices? No offense meant, believe me, just curiosity.

Rich


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Just wondering has anybody made a comparison and if so what is the biggest and best drive that can be installed internaly?

Also how much record time in HD do you get with a 1TB drive?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Just wondering has anybody made a comparison and if so what is the biggest and best drive that can be installed internaly?
> 
> Also how much record time in HD do you get with a 1TB drive?


maximum that the HRs can handle is 2tb (of course those have to be external RAID setup)
aproximate:
500gb=2x
750gb=3x
1tb=4x


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks houka.
Should 1tb be 3x or 4x? It would seem that each 250gb adds another 1x?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Thanks houka.
> Should 1tb be 3x or 4x? It would seem that each 250gb adds another 1x?


opps, typo.. fixed now.
Yes it's about 1x for every 250gb..


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## greynolds (Aug 19, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Just out of curiosity, why would you purchase four DVRs at those high prices? No offense meant, believe me, just curiosity.


1) I got the HR-21 (non-Pro) at no cost as an upgrade for one of my HR10-250 Tivo's. Naturally, they had no interest in getting the HD Tivo back, so I still have it but it isn't in service.

2) I bought an HR21Pro from ValueElectronics when they first came out.

3) The HR21Pro from VE started failing (overheating and rebooting) and was replaced through them under warranty.

4) I bought a 2nd HR21Pro from Dave Staab (DBSTalk forum member) for a slightly lower price.

5) The HR21Pro I bought from Dave Staab also started failing (overheating and rebooting). The place Dave got it from gave us the runaround about replacing it under warranty, so I contact DirecTV about it. They initially sent me an HR21 (non Pro) with a return label. I called them up as I definitely wanted the Pro unit I had paid for. They had me use the return label to send the HR21 back and sent me a Pro unit a few days later, but no return label. I called several times regarding returning the defective Pro, but they told me that if I didn't receive a return label they didn't want it back. My final phone call resulted in the CSR speaking with a manager and I was told that I'm free to keep the defective Pro unit and do what I want with it - I wanted to be sure a $600+ charge wasn't going to show up on my credit card.

6) I then opened up the defective Pro unit to diagnose the problem and it turned out that the fans weren't getting enough juice to spin. I added a power jack to the rear panel and hooked up a 3-12V adjustable wall wart power supply from Radio Shack and then connected the power jack internally to the 3 fans and this DVR has been running fine ever since (in fact 10 or so degrees cooler than the other 2). It's also been activated.

Why I went with the Pro units is that I have a Crestron control system and wanted to be able to control them without having to attach an IR emitter to the front panel or cobble together a USB to serial adapter (the Pro's have rear panel IR ports and serial ports). I also wanted them to be rack mountable as I plan to replace my current stereo cabinets with something that has rack mounts.

Sorry for the long post, but you asked .


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Just out of curiosity, why would you purchase four DVRs at those high prices? No offense meant, believe me, just curiosity.
> 
> Rich


I think the Pro's are only sold not leased. As for the one normal 21 - good question.


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## greynolds (Aug 19, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> I think the Pro's are only sold not leased. As for the one normal 21 - good question.


Correct - the Pro's are not available as leased units.

The normal HR21 was an upgrade for an existing owned unit when I switched to the new MPEG4 dish (which I also bought). They told me that since the HD Tivo was on my account as owned, the upgrade unit would also be owned and my account details confirm that. So all of my current DirecTV receivers are owned:

3 HR21 Pros (all in my main entertainment system)
1 HR21 (in the bedroom)
2 HR10-250's (1 deactivated, the other still in use for OTA and suggestions in my main entertainment system)
3 HDVR2's (all deactivated and will probably end up going to Freecycle)

Plus multiswitches and the dish itself


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## crashHD (Mar 1, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't think you'll be able to overclock the DVR,


Do it with the remote. ffwd 1x2x3x,or4x. 3x and 4x are too fast for me.


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## drill (Jun 28, 2006)

al4,

my opinion is that internal is the way to go (contrary to most of the posters here). no extra cables or power supplies hanging off. i replaced mine with no issues. if you are comfortable swapping drives/cards in a PC, swapping the drive in a HR2* isn't much more difficult. open it up and see how hard it is to get the HD out. if you don't think you can do it, stop and buy an external case.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Yes, I agree that I would prefer an internal upgrade over an external. I don’t want any more wall warts or bricks and I definitely don’t want more heat-generating boxes in my A/V cabinet. I understand D* not wanting the average consumer to try to upgrade the drives. Many people would not have the skills to do this and could damage the receiver or just be unable to complete the upgrade, and this would result in additional support and repair costs for D*. Of course some people (maybe me in included in the very near future) are quite capable of performing the upgrade and will tackle it and be happy with the results. I just don’t believe it’s right to penalize people who are capable of doing this because of the risk of the ones that are not. But of course so many things in life are like this. 

Honestly, if I had been designing this DVR, I would have realized that disk space is like money, in that you can never have too much, and that TiVo and UTV owners have a long history of upgrading their units. With these two things in mind, I would have made the upgrade process much easier. I would have put the hard drive under a user-serviceable panel, like most all laptop computers have. While eSATA may seem like a great solution, the reality is that it’s a kluge. If it were to be used as a temporarily connected backup device, that would be great, but it’s not a good permanent storage solution. The better upgrade solution is to replace the internal drive. The best upgrade solution would have been to keep the original HD internal and add a service panel to access an empty space where a user-supplied HD could be installed and used as *additional* space.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

greynolds said:


> Sorry for the long post, but you asked .


Wow, that _was _a long post. I gather your main reason was the rack system. OK, I understand that. The reason I asked was I keep seeing posts about people buying from sites like Crutchfield, and can't understand why they would pay those high prices.

PLEASE, if you're gonna answer this, brevity, brevity, brevity. Easier to understand. And I'd hate to be the cause of your impending carpal tunnel syndrome :lol:.

Rich


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## greynolds (Aug 19, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Wow, that _was _a long post. I gather your main reason was the rack system. OK, I understand that.


My main reason was the rear panel IR and RS-232 ports to interface with my Crestron system. The rack mount ears are a nice bonus. Oh, and I can put a larger hard drive inside if I choose to without breaking a lease agreement.



> The reason I asked was I keep seeing posts about people buying from sites like Crutchfield, and can't understand why they would pay those high prices.


The reason to buy from Crutchfield is for their outstanding customer service, not their prices (though they do sometimes have excellent special buys and sales).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

greynolds said:


> The reason to buy from Crutchfield is for their outstanding customer service, not their prices (though they do sometimes have excellent special buys and sales).


Agreed. I buy lots of stuff from Crutchfield and just searched their site and don't see anything like a DVR. I know I read a post from someone who said he bought 3 HRxxs from them. Guess they don't carry them anymore.

Their customer service is as good as it gets, but some of their prices are twice as high as some other places. I know I paid twice the price for an audio receiver compared to Amazon's prices. All my speakers are Polks from Crutchfield. I didn't feel like screwing around with them. Just bought what they advised me to buy.

But to purchase HRxxs from them? For how much? Take a look at weaknees prices for HRxxs. Too much. Especially when the worst deal you can make with D* for an HR is $99 +$19 shipping. And yes, I do know that a ''normal'' CSR will try to sell you one for $199 + shipping, but that doesn't last long if you go up the food chain.

Anyhow, I wasn't knocking Crutchfield, I think they are probably the best of a bunch of retailers who charge decent prices for their wares. And they do sell quality stuff.

By the way, I can't say enough about the Polk speakers. They are just great.

Rich


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## ericedeerslayer (Sep 13, 2008)

al4 said:


> I just got an HR21-200 and was looking to upgrade the drive. I have a Seagate Barracuda ES.2 1000GB drive.
> 
> I am comfortable with opening up electronics (I did my TiVo HD with no issues). I would rather it be powered by the HD DVR and not be external to save space and another power plug on my power switch.
> 
> What is the "preferred" method?


Just read your post and I have just gone through the same scenario.

First; ESATA is the way to go.

Second: Using an Antec MX-1 and a KingWin Jet JT-35EU-BK Black Aluminum 3.5" eSATA/USB 2.0 External Hard Drive Enclosure, I was unable to get the Seagate Barracuda 1TB drive to work. The system would seem fine at first, but after several days, the recordings were jerky and the dvr become slow to respond to the remote control. After restoring to the onboard drive. all operations were normal.

I am waiting for a WD AV-GP 1TB to arrive and see if I have better luck.

Good Luck!
Ericedeerslayer


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## al4 (Sep 6, 2008)

Did you use a Barracuda 7200.11 (AS) drive?

I'm still tempted to go either way - I'd prefer internal.

My only problem with going internal is in what circumstance I'd have to pay a fee to DirecTV? When it breaks and I send it back in?


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

al4 said:


> Did you use a Barracuda 7200.11 (AS) drive?
> 
> I'm still tempted to go either way - I'd prefer internal.
> 
> My only problem with going internal is in what circumstance I'd have to pay a fee to DirecTV? When it breaks and I send it back in?


If you ever have to return the unit to DirecTV, and, they decide to charge you.
Some people open the units, then later swap it with DirecTV/Close their account and send it back and never get penalized. Other people get nailed as soon as the guy in logistics unpacks the box.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

CJTE said:


> If you ever have to return the unit to DirecTV, and, they decide to charge you.
> Some people open the units, then later swap it with DirecTV/Close their account and send it back and never get penalized. Other people get nailed as soon as the guy in logistics unpacks the box.


I don't know what you base that statement on. I've never seen one person post in these forums or any other similar forums that they have been charged after returning a working DVR with the original disk put back in it, and if they ever do start trying to do something like that, it certainly wouldn't be a "guy in logistics" who unpacks the returned boxes making such a determination.

In addition, as has been pointed out many times, the lease agreement does not allow for or specify any such charges for leased receivers that have been opened. The lease agreement only allows for and spells out specific charges in the event that the customer fails to return a leased receiver or DVR


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

FWIW...

We know that FreeAgent Pro's don't work with HR21's. 
Seagate is just now coming out with a new line of externals, the FreeAgent Xtreme.
They now have a link up: _http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/external-hard-drive/Free-Agent.html#_

I've seen a report where 1 guy said he had one of these working with an HR21, but there's been no follow up to that report, so who knows? (Not me.)

This line includes various configurations, one of which has eSATA and a couple that do not. 
In addition, this line not only has 500GB, 640GB, and 1TB units, it also includes 1.5TB units. 
AFAIK, no vendors actually have these yet, so you can't get one yet.

For me, 1.5 TB at a tad less than $300 sounds pretty good. 
Of course, what nobody really knows yet is whether these things will work with the HR21.
However, we'll probably be hearing reports before too long.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

russdog said:


> FWIW...
> 
> We know that FreeAgent Pro's don't work with HR21's.
> Seagate is just now coming out with a new line of externals, the FreeAgent Xtreme.
> ...


The street prices for the bare Seagate 1.5TB seem to be well under $300. Pricegrabber lists 3 sellers with prices ranging from $199 to $279 (+ shipping and sales tax if applicable).

http://computers.pricegrabber.com/hard-drives/m/85786868/search=1.5TB/st=product/sv=button/


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thats just fear Talk. Directv has no interest in losing customers over trivial matters. If you return the unit with the orginal drive they will not get involved in a blame game even if they suspect the unit might have been opened! For one there is no gain in it, as most people will refuse to pay any penalties, they will just switch over to Comcast or Dishnet and tell Direct to P off.



CJTE said:


> If you ever have to return the unit to DirecTV, and, they decide to charge you.
> Some people open the units, then later swap it with DirecTV/Close their account and send it back and never get penalized. Other people get nailed as soon as the guy in logistics unpacks the box.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> The street prices for the bare Seagate 1.5TB seem to be well under $300. Pricegrabber lists 3 sellers with prices ranging from $199 to $279 (+ shipping and sales tax if applicable).
> 
> http://computers.pricegrabber.com/hard-drives/m/85786868/search=1.5TB/st=product/sv=button/


That's for bare Barracudas, not a plug-n-play external. 
Various people have reported trouble using Barracudas with HR21's.
The issue for me is not cheapest-price-per-byte. The issue is getting big eSATA external storage that will actually work with HR21's.
I don't know yet if the FA Xtreme's will work, but I know that the Barracuda's have been trouble for some HR21 owners.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

russdog said:


> That's for bare Barracudas, not a plug-n-play external.
> Various people have reported trouble using Barracudas with HR21's.
> The issue for me is not cheapest-price-per-byte. The issue is getting big eSATA external storage that will actually work with HR21's.
> I don't know yet if the FA Xtreme's will work, but I know that the Barracuda's have been trouble for some HR21 owners.


Many people who don't want to do internal upgrades still buy the bare drive and put it in an eSATA enclosure for external use. Even with the cost of an external enclosure, it looks like a 1.5TB external drive can be had for well under $300.

I prefer to do internal upgrades for the lower cost, lower power consumption, and decreased clutter as well as the increased reliability and lack of compatibility problems that plague externals, but for people want an external solution, sometimes buying a bare drive and enclosure is cheaper than buying a pre-packaged external.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

russdog said:


> I don't know yet if the FA Xtreme's will work, but I know that the Barracuda's have been trouble for some HR21 owners.


Are you saying that people have had problems using Barracudas externally or that they didn't work as an internal replacement? I know that the HR21s have lots of problems with various external drives.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> Many people who don't want to do internal upgrades still buy the bare drive and put it in an eSATA enclosure for external use. Even with the cost of an external enclosure, it looks like a 1.5TB external drive can be had for well under $300.
> 
> I prefer to do internal upgrades for the lower cost, lower power consumption, and decreased clutter as well as the increased reliability and lack of compatibility problems that plague externals, but for people want an external solution, sometimes buying a bare drive and enclosure is cheaper than buying a pre-packaged external.


It's fine with me for you to do whatever you want. Have at it. I'm not trying to argue with you about it.
For myself, I don't wanna open up the HR21. I want big eSATA external storage, just like I said I did.
And, yes, people have reported trouble with Barracudas in external eSATA enclosures (such as the Antec MX-1) that work fine with HR21's when WD drives are installed in them.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

russdog said:


> It's fine with me for you to do whatever you want. Have at it. I'm not trying to argue with you about it.
> For myself, I don't wanna open up the HR21. I want big eSATA external storage, just like I said I did.
> And, yes, people have reported trouble with Barracudas in external eSATA enclosures (such as the Antec MX-1) that work fine with HR21's when WD drives are installed in them.


The question I had was if people have had troubles with Barracudas used internally.

I personally have never heard of a drive that wouldn't work internally, which is why I was asking about installing the Barracuda internally, but I understand that not everyone is comfortable with opening up a DVR and replacing an internal drive which is why I also pointed out that you can build your own external drive with a the bare 1.5TB drive that I linked to.


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## al4 (Sep 6, 2008)

I still haven't decided what to do. Given I'm only using the DVR for cable channels I may not even upgrade the drive.


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## sundude90 (Jun 12, 2008)

I would probably go with Internal if its possible without hurting your equipment. If you went with External you would have to have a power supply and it would take up more room.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

I have a couple of "owned" HR20s and a HR21.. I have the 7200.11 500gb in the 21 and the enterprize version (ST3500630NS?) in the 20s.. been running for about a year..


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

I’m not trying to get into the argument here, but I think the issue is that some people think that an “external” drive like the FAP is somehow different from using a raw “internal” drive and putting it into an enclosure like the Antec. If you open the FAP, it will have a raw internal HD in its case. My guess is the incompatibility with the FAP and HR21 is not the actual raw drive, but the electronics in the FAP’s enclosure. IOW, putting a different brand raw internal HD inside the FAP case would likely not make it work with the HR21, but taking the raw internal HD from a FAP and putting in an Antec case would work.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, rather than issue a pile of infractions, I've deleted several of your posts. I know that there was some pertinent information in there, but there was also a bit too much attitude for this discussion. Please remember, no one comes here to be attacked or insulted. 

I ask that the conversation start again respectfully, and if you do choose to address each other rudely, please do so in private messages.


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## aleicgrant (Sep 26, 2007)

I picked up three of the 1.5 tb drives for $189 shipped. I would like to do an internal install. I assume its not as simple as opening up the dvr and popping in the new drive?


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## greynolds (Aug 19, 2006)

aleicgrant said:


> I picked up three of the 1.5 tb drives for $189 shipped. I would like to do an internal install. I assume its not as simple as opening up the dvr and popping in the new drive?


Lease issues aside, it is as simple as just putting in the new drive. You'll have to redo your scheduling of programs, etc. but you don't have to do anything special to prepare the drives to go into the DVR, unlike on the Tivo boxes.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

aleicgrant said:


> I picked up three of the 1.5 tb drives for $189 shipped. I would like to do an internal install. I assume its not as simple as opening up the dvr and popping in the new drive?


It *is* that simple. I have done that with an HR20-100, and again just this weekend, dropping a new WD 1TB drive inside an HR21-100.

If you do so with your new 1.5TB drives, let us know how it goes. I'd be willing to bet that it will work fine as (unlike with external upgrades) I have never heard of anyone having a problem with an internal disk upgrade. Are your 1.5TBs the Seagate Baracudas? That's the only 1.5TBs I have seen on the market so far.


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## intelisevil (Aug 1, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> It *is* that simple. I have done that with an HR20-100, and again just this weekend, dropping a new WD 1TB drive inside an HR21-100.


The hardest part of the transplant is tracking down the proper security torx driver!

Proud owner of two HR21-100's with internal WD 1TB drives.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

intelisevil said:


> The hardest part of the transplant is tracking down the proper security torx driver!
> 
> Proud owner of two HR21-100's with internal WD 1TB drives.


I got a set of 7 torx "security" bits on ebay for less than $7 including free shipping (all the way from Florida to Los Angeles in two days!) from this seller.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tamper-Proof-St...39:1|66:2|65:15|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

.....or one can just search for "tamper proof torx" on ebay for lots of other sellers.

BTW, did you install the WD "Green" drives? I did, and my power consumption went up by about 4 watts.... I guess the bigger capacity drive still means more power draw, and any potential power saving on the green drives comes from idle spin down, which the DVR drives never do. My internal temp did go down by 5-10 degrees though.


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## 1999cobra (Jan 21, 2007)

I've got the answer for you - Please, please, please do what the *can openers *are telling you - open the box up change the drive and then see what happens when you return the equipment ...







-







-







-


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## greynolds (Aug 19, 2006)

1999cobra said:


> I've got the answer for you - Please, please, please do what the *can openers *are telling you - open the box up change the drive and then see what happens when you return the equipment


Poor guy:

:beatdeadhorse:


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## RobbinMerritt (Jan 29, 2003)

Does the current production software release support the external drives or does one need to have the CE software?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You can use the current national release.


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## GhostHeel (Sep 26, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> It *is* Are your 1.5TBs the Seagate Baracudas? That's the only 1.5TBs I have seen on the market so far.


Speaking of which, has anyone tried this drive as an esata?


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## cp1966 (Sep 29, 2007)

I just got the November issue of "Home Theater Magazine", and in the new product section they show a new Iomega external eSATA hard drive ( 1 tb I think) that is meant to work with the DVR hard drive, not instead of.

Anybody read it differently, or are the DirecTV HD DVRs only able to function with 1 drive?


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## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

cp1966 said:


> I just got the November issue of "Home Theater Magazine", and in the new product section they show a new Iomega external eSATA hard drive ( 1 tb I think) that is meant to work with the DVR hard drive, not instead of.
> 
> Anybody read it differently, or are the DirecTV HD DVRs only able to function with 1 drive?


If you use this drive (or any external drive) with a DirecTV HR2x DVR, it will be used instead of the internal drive. That is just how DirecTV's software works.


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## VHS or Beta (Feb 22, 2008)

GhostHeel said:


> Speaking of which, has anyone tried this drive as an esata?


I just put one that arrived today into an eSATA enclosure and will be trying it shortly. How long does it take to format etc. once you plug it in for the first time?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

A few minutes. Not terribly long as I recall. (Tho I haven't tried a 1.5TB yet.) 

Cheers,
Tom

Standard Warning: DBStalk nor I recommend ever violating you lease or terms of service agreement. I own the unit in which I have replaced the drive.


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## VHS or Beta (Feb 22, 2008)

Alright, I've had my 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda in a Vox V1 eSATA enclosure up and running on my HR20-100 for about an hour now. So far, so good...no stuttering or other problems that I've noticed. 

I assume the DVR is seeing the entire capacity of the drive but I don't see any details on the Menu->Info screen. Is there any way to check it?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The only way to tell is to record a lot of MPEG4 or MPEG2 HD and see if you're getting a lot of space. 

So far as I know, the whole capacity is available to the DVR. (and available to you except for the standard overhead for swap, buffer, and showcases.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## intelisevil (Aug 1, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> I got a set of 7 torx "security" bits on ebay for less than $7 including free shipping (all the way from Florida to Los Angeles in two days!) from this seller.....
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tamper-Proof-St...39:1|66:2|65:15|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
> 
> ...


No, I went with the "Black" drives.

The "Green" drives run at 5400 rpm and ramp up to 7200 rpm as needed to save energy. In a computer, that would help you out. In our DVRs that are constantly buffering, I don't think the drive would ever be allowed to slow down. I thought it would be better to go with a 'one speed' drive.

I was lucky enough to find a set of 28 security drivers in a case for $13 at my local Ace Hardware. There are some weird drivers out there!

I think there's enough space under the drive to install a hard drive cooler, I've been thinking about getting one to try it out.


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## VHS or Beta (Feb 22, 2008)

I've noticed that my external eSATA drive is always spinning, even with the DVR powered down overnight. Is this normal? 

Does the internal drive behave the same way (when not using an external eSATA drive)? 

What about with the eSATA drive plugged in -- does the internal drive continue to spin even though it's no longer being used?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

VHS or Beta said:


> I've noticed that my external eSATA drive is always spinning, even with the DVR powered down overnight. Is this normal?


Yes. The only way to turn the HRs off is to pull the plug.



> Does the internal drive behave the same way (when not using an external eSATA drive)?


Yes, see the above statement.



> What about with the eSATA drive plugged in -- does the internal drive continue to spin even though it's no longer being used?


Yes.

Rich


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## VHS or Beta (Feb 22, 2008)

In that case I'm glad my new drive carries a 5-year warranty. Thanks.


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## BruceS (Sep 23, 2006)

The best reason I can think of for using an external drive is that when it fails you can just unplug it and your receiver goes back to using the internal drive.

That way you won't lose use of your receiver while getting a new drive for your external enclosure.

As far as certain drive external enclosure combinations not working, I suspect it is probably more likely to be the esata cable that is causing the problem.

Just check out http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784 where there is a discussion about adding an external drive to either the Tivo S3 or the Tivo HD. Many people mention having problems with the esata cable.

If nothing else that thread mentions many drive enclosure combinations that work fine for those receivers. I suspect that most of them should work fine with the D* receivers as well.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

BruceS said:


> As far as certain drive external enclosure combinations not working, I suspect it is probably more likely to be the esata cable that is causing the problem.


It's not that simple. 
Regardless of cable issues, a wide variety of external enclosures work with the HR20, but not with the HR21. 
Only a very few work with the HR21. 
People facing this have tried a variety of cable solutions, and that's not it.
Nobody knows why, but it's true.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

BruceS said:


> The best reason I can think of for using an external drive is that when it fails you can just unplug it and your receiver goes back to using the internal drive.


I would never make a decision to go internal or external based on what I would have to do if the drive ever failed.... but if the drive ever did fail, it's simple to put the original disk back inside if you need a temporary disk until you get a replacement for the failed disk.


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## Phil21 (Sep 9, 2008)

1999cobra said:


> I've got the answer for you - Please, please, please do what the *can openers *are telling you - open the box up change the drive and then see what happens when you return the equipment ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did. Nothing happened, DirecTV didn't mention it.

This was a HR20-100 (iirc), and of course I put the original drive back in prior to it being returned.

There is of course a chance of DirecTV "catching" you, however if there is no damage done I doubt they even notice the sticker being broken.

That said, I absolutely encourage only those that have experience w/ this sort of thing - and the bank account to cover any of your screwups - do this. It's only fair that if you break it, you buy it! If you're not careful, it wouldn't be hard to break things.

At the end of the day though, it truly is trivial for anyone who's messed with the internals of consumer electronics to replace the hard drive.

Basically my contribution to this thread is: Be honest and ethical, otherwise go nuts.

-Phil


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Phil21 said:


> I did. Nothing happened, DirecTV didn't mention it.
> 
> This was a HR20-100 (iirc), and of course I put the original drive back in prior to it being returned.
> 
> There is of course a chance of DirecTV "catching" you, however if there is no damage done I doubt they even notice the sticker being broken


Not to mention that since some of the units (like my HR20-100) were deployed to customers without a sticker, and some of the refurb units have been reportedly shipped with a sticker that was already broken, pretty much tells you that it's unlikely that anyone at DirecTV is paying any attention to the stickers (or lack thereof) on returned units.


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## VHS or Beta (Feb 22, 2008)

VHS or Beta said:


> Alright, I've had my 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda in a Vox V1 eSATA enclosure up and running on my HR20-100 for about an hour now. So far, so good...no stuttering or other problems that I've noticed.


An update on this. I've recorded several shows so far and all have played back fine with one exception. My wife's Project Runway had a number of audio dropouts and video stutters in it tonight. Everything else has been fine including buffered live tv, so it *seems* like the drive is working except for that one episode so far.

For those who have had problems with certain drives not getting along with their HR2x, are the problems usually intermittent like this or do those drives have obvious incompatibility problems right off the bat?

Is it recommended to run these 7200.11 drives in SATA 3.0 Gb/s mode, or jumper them to run in backward compatibilty mode at SATA 1.5 Gb/s? Seagate's 1TB drives come jumpered from the factory but the 1.5TB drives do not, so mine is currently running in the faster SATA II mode at 3.0 Gb/s.


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## lenbo (Jul 25, 2004)

Got the seagate 1tb extreme today at best buy on sale $199, going to hook it up tomorrow. I've got a HR 20-100 wish me luck.


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## pbaran (May 24, 2006)

I just changed out the the drive in a HR22. It was very easy to do except for the security screws. If I was to do this on a regular basis I would get the proper screw driver. I installed a 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda that I got from newegg for $189.99 and free shipping. I have built many PC's and this was a snap. It was even easier than the old MS Ultimate for D*. It has been working without any problems since the HD swap. I hope the total space will be recognized by the HR22 and not hit some addressing limit.


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## RoyGBiv (Jul 24, 2007)

I am curious. What did you use to get around the security screws if not the proper screwdriver?

SMK


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

RoyGBiv said:


> I am curious. What did you use to get around the security screws if not the proper screwdriver?


A lot of times you can use a very small flat-head screwdriver wedge just right to turn these security Torx screws.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

or run to any hardware store and pick up one for a couple bucks..


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

rudeney said:


> A lot of times you can use a very small flat-head screwdriver wedge just right to turn these security Torx screws.


I haven't looked inside my HR21, so I don't know what's there... but the only thing that's "security" about standard Torx hardware is that most people don't have Torx screwdrivers.

Torx is nothing but a screw-head pattern that enables the screwdriver to get better "bite", and therefore provides less risk of burring up the screw head. This is because the Torx head pattern gives the screwdriver six places to grab the screw head (it's shaped like the Star of David), instead of just a single slot (like a standard screwdriver) or an X-slot (like a Phillips-head). Frankly, if we were starting from scratch with a sensible design, I think Torx would be the way to go for everything. AFAIK, the main reason we don't is just because we already have a tradition of single-slot and Phillips heads.

Anyway, Torx tools are easy to find, and they can be cheap. For example, I got something like this ages ago (when I had an old Saab that was full of little Torx-head bolts), and it's been a good tool for me: 
http://www.amazon.com/Bondhus-12632...f=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1223311467&sr=1-12

ps: I wonder if name "Torx" is a play on the fact that the improved design lets you apply more torque to the screw or bolt without having the tool slip and tear up the head of the screw/bolt. However, I'm just making this up, I don't really know.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

The "security" part is that there is a pin in he middle of the head which prevents the standard torx bit from going in.. The "tamperproof" torx bit has a hole in the center for this pin.. but both have been availible to general public for years..


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

houskamp said:


> The "security" part is that there is a pin in he middle of the head which prevents the standard torx bit from going in.. The "tamperproof" torx bit has a hole in the center for this pin.. but both have been availible to general public for years..


Thank you. I didn't know any of that.
'Learn something new everyday...


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## pbaran (May 24, 2006)

I used a T10 Torx and pushed down hard so the torx was able to get a hold on the screw head. The next time I am out I will be looking for a T10 with a hole in the center so that the center pin is no longer in the way. I should have done that first. I just bought a HR22 for $169.99 at Costco so I am not hoping that I get HR22 and instead get a HR21 from D*.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

houskamp said:


> The "security" part is that there is a pin in he middle of the head which prevents the standard torx bit from going in.. The "tamperproof" torx bit has a hole in the center for this pin.. but both have been availible to general public for years..


Yes, and that "pin" is why sometimes a small flat blade screwdriver will work. I actually bought a very nice "security" driver set from Sears years ago for about $20. I don't believe they sell it any more, but it has all sorts of odd bits, like the security Torx, three-pointed Philips, etc.


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## nedrifle (Oct 9, 2006)

I just purchased a 1.5TB FA Xtreme from BB for $229.99.

I hooked it up to my HR 20 without any issues and working fine so far...


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## smolenski (Oct 25, 2006)

FYI, some good deal going on right now.

I just purchased the following:

$119 A/R
HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 0A35155 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB Hard Drive Bulk 
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005968

and

$29.99
ANTEC 3.5" USB/eSATA ACTIVELY COOLED HARD DRIVE ENCLOSURE 
http://shop3.frys.com/product/5351388

Now this is on sale and I might get it for our second HR20

$119 A/R
Fantom G-Force GF1000EU 1TB USB 2.0 / eSATA External Hard Drive - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16822204069&CMP=AFC-C8Junction


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