# Hopefully an non-emotional discussion about switching from DTV to DISH



## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

I'm considering the switch after 18+ years w/DTV.

I'll start out with this

I've been VERY happy with DTV from both a service and a content perspective
I've experienced frustration in the conversion from own your box to lease your box and lived the pain of spending hundreds of dollars for something required to receive service (STP/DVR/...) that I did NOT own and then pay a "rental fee"
I've been frustrated at times with the idea of an equipment protection plan for the hardware THEY provide so I can buy their service
I really hate the "call in for discount" game and for the first time ever, I was told "there are no discounts in the cupboard" and I am now paying full retail
BEFORE anyone goes off in the wild blue yonder, I KNOW that all the providers have their twists on ALL these issues.

My purpose here is to hopefully get some non-emotional information so that I can make an informed decision. To me, it seems that the new paradigm might be to switch back and forth every two years to take advantage of new equipment and fixed "new subscriber" pricing rather than doing the "discount dance" when "your credits expire". This is what I'm trying to decide.

So here are some of my beginning Q's on DISH!!!!

If one puts the OTA adapter on the main unit (Hopper?)

Do all the local stations available show up in the guide?
Can they be recorded?
Are they available on the client devices?
Can client 1 be watching 21-2 and client 2 be watching 5-2 (presuming these two OTA stations are NOT in the DISH feed and OTA only)?
Can you use eSATA drives with the DVR?
Are the remotes RF? Can you have multiple remotes for each unit?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Just to be fair on the DirecTV side, the PP is not needed to replace a box that has gone bad. Without the PP, a bad owned box is replaced with leased and there is a shipping fee (which on occasion is waived).

And you're right, you'd have some of these issues with provider.


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Just to be fair on the DirecTV side, the PP is not needed to replace a box that has gone bad. Without the PP, a bad owned box is replaced with leased and there is a shipping fee (which on occasion is waived).
> 
> And you're right, you'd have some of these issues with provider.


Yes, I have had them do this for me as I've always refused to pay for the PP. The benefit of not being on a contract is you can say, fine, come pick up the rest  AGAIN, I am VERY sure that all these things exist for EVERY provider and there are slightly different ways they ALL can be dealt with. Good clarification but let's get back to comparing what the equipment can/can not do and user experience (not to get mired in picture quality discussions, I get it). I really want to know from an operational viewpoint, what am I gaining or losing. THANK YOU!!!!!!


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

I had first posted this in anotehr thread and now have pointed them to this thread. Here is a response I received, sorry for the double post!



rakstr said:


> I'm considering the switch after 18+ years w/DTV. Do you have an update?
> 
> If one puts the OTA adapter on the main unit (Hopper?)
> 
> ...


Can the OTA adapter be installed on the clients as well? I think I remember seeing that the clients had a tuner but it was not yet used....

Do you know what version of USB drive? Is that space additional to the internal drive or does it replace the internal drive?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rakstr said:


> If one puts the OTA adapter on the main unit (Hopper?)
> 
> Do all the local stations available show up in the guide?


If you're not using a rotor, yes. The guide data may or may not be available.


> Can they be recorded?


If they are ATSC, yes. If you have any that are still analog, no on those.


> Are they available on the client devices?


Yes.


> Can client 1 be watching 21-2 and client 2 be watching 5-2 (presuming these two OTA stations are NOT in the DISH feed and OTA only)?


Know that the OTA tuner can only handle one channel at a time. However, unlike DIRECTV's two tuner adapter, the DISH adapter can be recorded even if all the satellite tuners are recording.


> Can you use eSATA drives with the DVR?


No such complications with the Hopper -- it uses off-the-shelf USB 2.0 drives. The content must be manually moved to the external drives. I believe you can have two hooked up simultaneously using a USB hub and all three will be available for viewing.


> Are the remotes RF? Can you have multiple remotes for each unit?


DISH supports both modes simultaneously on any number of remotes but I don't think you can program one remote for multiple receivers via RF.

The DISH remotes perhaps aren't as capable of the RC6x series but they are arguably much better than the RC71. You can also use the DISH 40.0 remote in learning mode and I believe it can download the recording preferences from the Hopper (if you need to swap it out for a different Hopper)

The Joeys aren't capable enough to stream video from an OTA adapter nor to a Hopper.


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

I was really hoping to get a little more discussion. Is everyone just on vacation


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm not sure what more discussion there is relative to your original post and questions. As you said, many of the plus and minus stuff is true of all cable and satellite services... and it looks like your OTA questions have been answered. Did you have any other questions that you thought of after your original post?


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

Was hoping to get some insight into general usage and user experience differences of the DVRs, ... Things people "had from one" and not in the other, or other such things!


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## Rduce (May 16, 2008)

Switching every two year seems to be the only viable answer to getting a real deal as things look these days. I just pulled the plug on DISH after 11 years. I became frustrated with my Eastern Arc setup that I had been switched to in March, signal issues that two tech visits could not resolve and I just had grown tired of paying for programing that I was watching less and less of. I found I was watching more OTA programming than I ever had and no longer could justify the $79 per month I was spending. The retention specialist did offer me a $50 a month off my bill for 10 months if I agreed to stay as I was heading out the door. It was tempting to stay for that price, but even at $30 a month I could not see paying for something I was not watching. I do like DISH's DVR, but not enough to stay for that alone and I purchased a cheap OTA recorder that works for my needs.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

OP - There is nothing that would prevent you from pulling a 2nd coax to each TV that you would like OTA at. However - you CANNOT share the single cable for the Joeys with an OTA signal - they must be on separate coax cables. Matter of fact - you can't share the cables from the dish down to the single or dual node as well.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

rakstr said:


> I was really hoping to get a little more discussion. Is everyone just on vacation


I don't have provider loyalty, they don't give a crap about me, and I in return don't give a crap about them.
I say go where you'll get what you want and need that's a better value to you.
I would have no objections switching to Dish, but they lack certain channels that are big factors for me. 
And directv seems cheaper when it comes to the larger systems and setups.

I would need a 3 hopper 2 super Joey system, and I'm not sure that affordable, obtainable, or even possible.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

damondlt said:


> I would need a 3 hopper 2 super Joey system, and I'm not sure that affordable, obtainable, or even possible.


You could do that with three separate accounts. 13 tuners on five receivers is more than most subscribers would need. If you could reduce to three Hoppers and one Super Joey (placing a Joey at the second Super Joey location) or two Hoppers and two Super Joeys you may be able to get down to two accounts.


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

scooper said:


> OP - There is nothing that would prevent you from pulling a 2nd coax to each TV that you would like OTA at. However - you CANNOT share the single cable for the Joeys with an OTA signal - they must be on separate coax cables. Matter of fact - you can't share the cables from the dish down to the single or dual node as well.


I've got the cables pulled. I like the integration to the DVR and menu the two tuner AM-21 provides at each TV wo/having to change inputs. Plus you can record the OTA along with the DTV content. Just one of those things my wife has become used to as well.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

I have both D* & Fios set-ups. We are really considering dropping D*(only because Fios we have Triple Bundle pckg, and it makes most sense to keep it, as far as a $avings stand point).

As each year passes I'm getting more frustrated with DRM. Am I understanding correctly, with Dish, that future DVR/drive failures we would be able to offload to an ext eSATA drive(of course prior to internal HD being totally unresponive/dead) Then new replacement hopper comes and archived shows are NOT lost forever. Is this correct?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You can connect an external HD to Dish DVRs... but they are USB, not eSATA. They are additional space, archival, and do not replace the internal DVR drive... so you can move recordings to the EHD... and if you do so before a failure occurs on the DVR drive, then yes you would have your recordings safe for your replacement Dish DVR.


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## texasmoose (May 25, 2007)

are they gonna support, or already do, usb 3.0?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

texasmoose said:


> are they gonna support, or already do, usb 3.0?


No. If they supported it, they would likely have to require it and for now, it doesn't seem necessary.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

texasmoose said:


> are they gonna support, or already do, usb 3.0?


There's no need. USB 2x is plenty fast enough for the intended purpose. And all new external enclosures' 3.0 ports should be backward compatible to the 2x the DVRs put out.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

USB 3.0 would be good for archiving/restoring files. They go a LOT faster in 3.0.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Yes, of course- for tx's it'd be a real benefit. I was thinking only of real time recordings, just a bit myopic!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

djlong said:


> USB 3.0 would be good for archiving/restoring files. They go a LOT faster in 3.0.


The archiving process happens entirely in the background and doesn't require a reboot so it isn't particularly beneficial to consume extra resources to hurry the process. There's also a limit to how fast the DVR can encrypt the content as part of the transfer and to be able to outrun that process is obviously pointless.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Perhaps the biggest feature missing from the Dish DVRs is the ability to save your place in a recording while the recording is still taking place.

So, for instance, you start watching a movie while it is recording, decide to stop and hit the stop button. When you return, the "Resume" option is not available - you must start viewing from the beginning.

If you stop viewing a recording after it has finished, your place in the program is saved.

However, the speed of the Dish DVRs more than makes up for this annoyance. My Hopper was blazing fast from the get-go. My HR22-100 from DirecTV was never fast, and I actually left the provider over the speed of that box.


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## lgb0250 (Jan 24, 2010)

sregener said:


> Perhaps the biggest feature missing from the Dish DVRs is the ability to save your place in a recording while the recording is still taking place.
> 
> So, for instance, you start watching a movie while it is recording, decide to stop and hit the stop button. When you return, the "Resume" option is not available - you must start viewing from the beginning.
> 
> ...


I'm a little confused by this statement. I am currently taping an LPGA event. I just went to live TV. Waited a couple of minutes and went back to the DVR and hit resume. It took me right back to where I was previously even though the event is still being recorded!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Perhaps it has been fixed? Are you using PIP and the swap button to go to live TV?

I have not tried lately, but I have seen the "paused live program forgets its paused point after recording finished" bug. The times I remember seeing it the most is if I did not return to the program until after the recording ending. So the steps to test would be:
1) Record a program
2) Watch part of that program while recording
3) Pause the viewing - Watch other programming
4) Wait until recording ends
5) Return to previously paused program. Is the pause point there?


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

It always resumed while recording, unless you're watching from a different DVR at the same time, Then yes it takes you to beginning of program on other receivers playlist, but if you stop the recording first, then it can resumed on other DVR's through Whole Home Service(MRV).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I hit record then a couple of minutes later hit pause on a program at 1pm on Sunday. I changed to another channel leaving the paused program recording in the background. In the evening I returned to the paused program (recording completed at 2pm) and was offered the chance to resume from the point where I paused. I'd say that is "working" as expected.


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

Well I just pulled the plug on DTV after 18.5 years. I must say, I was a bit taken back because the retention rep confirmed I am month to month, determined my paid through date, calmly scheduled the shut off for that expiration date (end of this cycle), told me about the return process, and asked me if there was anything else  Now on to other things!!!!!!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

rakstr said:


> Well I just pulled the plug on DTV after 18.5 years. I must say, I was a bit taken back because the retention rep confirmed I am month to month, determined my paid through date, calmly scheduled the shut off for that expiration date (end of this cycle), told me about the return process, and asked me if there was anything else  Now on to other things!!!!!!


Hmmmm. Interesting! So he/she did not bend your ear on all kinds of inducements to stay!? I've read complaints on that, but this is the first one (not saying you're complaining) where it's been short and bittersweet.

Leaving for cost savings? Different equipment? Pac-12 fan? Just ready for a change? (Iffin ya don't mind me axing.)


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

Actually a BIG 10 fan (see avatar) and it is a financial decision. I really am happy with everything but having to pay full retail when I can get very similar programming from DISH for much less.

I may even try a few months without anything just to see what OTA only is like again. We get quite a few! I'll probably miss Fox Business the most of anything if I do 

Anyone know if DISH DVRs have a network based remote on Android and IOS? I like that feature of DTV and use it. I've got HDMI distribution set up in my home to all the bedrooms and other places  My disti system support IR repeaters but the network based is so much cleaner !!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Most likely! And someone who's real familiar with Dish should be along shortly...

And best wishes to you and your favorite teams!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

rakstr said:


> Well I just pulled the plug on DTV after 18.5 years. I must say, I was a bit taken back because the retention rep confirmed I am month to month, determined my paid through date, calmly scheduled the shut off for that expiration date (end of this cycle), told me about the return process, and asked me if there was anything else  Now on to other things!!!!!!


The onslaught of winback offers is coming.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

rakstr said:


> Anyone know if DISH DVRs have a network based remote on Android and IOS? I like that feature of DTV and use it. I've got HDMI distribution set up in my home to all the bedrooms and other places  My disti system support IR repeaters but the network based is so much cleaner !!


I don't know about iOS but the Dish Anywhere application on Android cannot be used like a remote and it seems like such a glaring omission that I'm shocked it hasn't been added. The app does allow you to set recordings and manage the DVR to some extent but it appears that it is more geared for use as remote viewing platform for Sling enabled receivers.

And welcome to the Dish family, I hope you enjoy it!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bobukcat said:


> I don't know about iOS but the Dish Anywhere application on Android cannot be used like a remote and it seems like such a glaring omission that I'm shocked it hasn't been added.


What remote app for an iOS or Android device that you've seen is easier to use and works better than a physical DISH remote?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

harsh said:


> What remote app for an iOS or Android device that you've seen is easier to use and works better than a physical DISH remote?


Apparently, none!

Too often..............


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## rakstr (Aug 23, 2007)

harsh said:


> What remote app for an iOS or Android device that you've seen is easier to use and works better than a physical DISH remote?


Don't mean to hijack your question but I think I have some input since the original response was for one of my questions.

I've got HDMI distribution in the house to various rooms, all fed off a DVR I've allocated for that purpose. Before the remote was integrated into the IOS app for DirecTV, I had one of the cheapo Android tablets in each room with DirecTV Remote+ Pro loaded to control the common DVR via my local intranet from any location. Worked out well because the way I divided the rooms up, there was low probability of more than one user at any given time. The remote they finally included in the IOS app (and presume android but the new version won't run on my old tablets) does the same thing via my intranet, though I still prefer the DirecTV Remote+ Pro app.

There are other benefits of the network remote function on DTV in that you can access some of the program information via the app and not on-screen. It's just a nice interface and simplifies multi-room with exceptional reliability.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

If you are thinking of trying cord cutting, it might be worth buying a Roku. It has lots of channels that are free, you just have to find them. 

Also, that might give DirecTV time to give you all sorts of counter offers and you can see what kinds of extra offers Dish will give to you.


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## mattyhoops (Aug 15, 2014)

3 months ago I switched from Directv to Dish.

Directv:
- Customer for almost 3 years
- Had 1 Genie (HR34) DVR and 1 HD Receiver (H25 I believe)
- 5 tuners were great. No recording conflicts
- HR34 was slow but overall DVR was superior to standard Comcast DVR I had previously 
- Reception quality exceeded my expectations. Only lost service briefly during bad thunderstorms & when snow accumulated on dish. 
- Picture quality on HD content was spectacular.
- Reason for leaving: Freezing/pixelation issue on recordings of local channels & live broadcasts. Put up with it for over a year. Directv wouldn't acknowledge there was a problem with Genie DVRs. They would only send me another one that would eventually have the same problem. When I cancelled service they were offering me all kinds of things to stay, but by then it was too late. Dish had already been installed. 

Dish:
- 1 Hopper DVR, 1 Joey receiver
- Only 3 true tuners. So far no big issues with recording conflicts. Since locals (ABC, CBS, FOX & NBC) always come through on 1 tuner it's like having 6 tuners as long as you record a lot on locals.
- DVR functionality is similar to Genie but is displayed differently. Even uses different terminology, ex: Timers. Once you get used to it it does about the same thing as Genie. Hopper is a lot faster, but I had the old Genie. Does show more details: file size of recordings, view activity on all tuners, Season & episode # of series. You can also create folders to group recordings. I like that episodes of a program can be sorted by episode number even when recorded out of sequence.
- HDD is twice the size of Genie. With free movie channels for 3 months I have 50+ movies and with my 'normal' DVR content I'm only at 46% capacity. I think it's around 250 individual recordings.
- Ability to connect multiple HDDs and archive content is awesome. Haven't used the feature yet, but in past years I have lost so many recordings due to failed DVRs
- reception seems to be on par with DTV. Only dropped out briefly during bad storms.
- HD picture quality is not as sharp as DTV. Especially on locals. I wonder if it has anything to do with ABC, CBS, FOX & NBC coming through on 1 tuner.
- Not as much on Demand content as DTV, but Comcast has both of them beat on that.
- Remote is way too busy with too many small buttons. Can't find what you want in the dark. But I use a Logitech Harmony remote anyway. Only use Dish remote in bedroom.
- BEST THING: Not 1 problem with recordings!! A DVR can have all kinds of bells & whistles, but it must be able to record what you want when you want it! (Barring reception issues)


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## SomeRandomIdiot (Jan 7, 2009)

mattyhoops said:


> 3 months ago I switched from Directv to Dish.
> 
> Directv:
> - Customer for almost 3 years
> ...


1) Reception should be better than DTV, not on par. DirecTV's Ka signal is 3x more likely to have a rainfade issue.

2) PQ is worse on Dish because it is HD-LITE (1440 lines instead of 1920 lines) and more bitstarved.

3) DTV now has Season/Episodes

4) Issues with Genies continue for freezing etc. They really are a POS.

It is interesting because during the MPEG2 days of HD (even SD), DirecTV's signal was rock solid and error free while Dish's always had issues. Have to think a large part of it is the Genie's are causing it as the HR-2x were never this bad.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

My experience contradicts point 4). The Genies I have used have been fine. 

And I suspect any signal issues have more to do with packing more into each transponder.


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## Sgtsbabygirl1 (Dec 15, 2014)

James Long said:


> You could do that with three separate accounts. 13 tuners on five receivers is more than most subscribers would need. If you could reduce to three Hoppers and one Super Joey (placing a Joey at the second Super Joey location) or two Hoppers and two Super Joeys you may be able to get down to two accounts.


I don't know anything about dish. Why would you need that many accounts? are you paying for services on each account? IE if each account is 50 a mo youre paying 150? Do the hoppers and joeys share if they are on separate accounts?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Sgtsbabygirl1 said:


> I don't know anything about dish. Why would you need that many accounts? are you paying for services on each account? IE if each account is 50 a mo youre paying 150? Do the hoppers and joeys share if they are on separate accounts?


There are limits as to how many Hoppers one can put on one account ... break that limit and one needs a second (or third) account. Each account would be full price for whatever services were on each account.


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## Sgtsbabygirl1 (Dec 15, 2014)

James Long said:


> There are limits as to how many Hoppers one can put on one account ... break that limit and one needs a second (or third) account. Each account would be full price for whatever services were on each account.


So with dish you can only have one hopper per account? How many joeys? What's the difference between a Joey and a superjoey?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Sgtsbabygirl1 said:


> So with dish you can only have one hopper per account? How many joeys? What's the difference between a Joey and a superjoey?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I believe you can lease 2 Hoppers and 4 Joeys... maybe 6 Joeys, I can't remember... or 1 Hopper + 1 Super Joey instead of the 2nd Hopper.

You can buy additional Hoppers, I think, but you have to also buy additional nodes and switches and such to make that configuration work and you may or may not be able to see all the recordings on all the Hoppers in such a configuration.

A Joey is a "dumb" viewing-only device... while a Super Joey has 2 tuners in it as well as being a viewing device.

Some prefer a Hopper + Super Joey configuration... I would prefer a 2 Hopper configuration since it gives you 6 SAT tuners vs 5 in a Hopper + Super Joey configuration... but that's just me.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Sgtsbabygirl1 said:


> So with dish you can only have one hopper per account? How many joeys? What's the difference between a Joey and a superjoey?


Subscribers are allowed two Hoppers on one account. As already mentioned in this thread, if one wants a *third* Hopper (or more) they need a second account. I believe the limit on Joeys is four.

The SuperJoey is a Joey with two tuners. (Regular Joeys just show what a Hopper has tuned or recorded. A SuperJoey adds two more tuners to the Hopper system.)


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

> Subscribers are allowed two Hoppers on one account. As already mentioned in this thread, if one wants a *third* Hopper (or more) they need a second account. I believe the limit on Joeys is four.
> 
> The SuperJoey is a Joey with two tuners. (Regular Joeys just show what a Hopper has tuned or recorded. A SuperJoey adds two more tuners to the Hopper system.)


A super Joey is still a slave to a Hopper, even though it has 2 tuners it is not a stand alone receiver.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

James Long said:


> Subscribers are allowed two Hoppers on one account. As already mentioned in this thread, if one wants a *third* Hopper (or more) they need a second account. I believe the limit on Joeys is four.
> 
> The SuperJoey is a Joey with two tuners. (Regular Joeys just show what a Hopper has tuned or recorded. A SuperJoey adds two more tuners to the Hopper system.)


slight correction. You can lease 2 Hoppers, but I've read of some who have 3 (and maybe 4) Hoppers, you just have to buy any past the 1st two.

Other than losing one tuner by going to a Hopper/SuperJoey vice 2 Hoppers, the H+SJ is a seamless system. All 5 tuners appear everywhere and you have a single timer/recording list for the whole thing. Quite handy. And even though I record a lot, I've not had a single issue of needing more than the 5 tuners all the time for all channels, or effectively 8 tuners if you also record all 4 of the main broadcast channels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> slight correction. You can lease 2 Hoppers, but I've read of some who have 3 (and maybe 4) Hoppers, you just have to buy any past the 1st two.


Unless DISH relaxed the rules - the people I read who had three had to also buy a separate account.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

James Long said:


> Unless DISH relaxed the rules - the people I read who had three had to also buy a separate account.


Not the ones I saw talking about it. They had to buy it at full retail and do the work themselves, but Dish would activate it.


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