# January 12, 2004 Charlie Chat Summary



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Negotiation with Turner broadcasting has entered a multi-month extension so no services will be lost.

No agreement with Viacom yet but they have an extension in place.

Changes to core packages.

Less than $1 per month increase.

AT Top 50 to AT Top 60 w/locals. Same price $29.99

Top 100 becomes Top 120 w/locals. Up only 1 penny to $39.99

Top 150 becomes Top 180 w/locals $1.01 increase to $49.99

Top 120 HBO & Cinemax w/Locals $1.01 increase to $56.99

Everything Pak w/locals $79.99 to $82.99 with free DVR service

FOX added to Naples, FL

FOX added to Honolulu

WB & FOX added to Mobile/Pensacola

FOX added to Savannah, GA

ABC added to Evansville, IL with Superdish

Johnstown-Altoona, PA available January 29 with Dish 500

Traverse City - Cadillac, MI available January 22 with small extra Dish. No CBS at launch.

Grand Junction, CO available January 22 with small extra Dish. No ABC at launch.

104 markets total serving over 91 Million households (85% of the U.S.)

ESPN Full Court half season - $69

NHL Center Ice half season - $109

HDTV in the box $999 with free installation W/34" direct view or 40" rear projection monitor & 811 receiver.

Charlie rants about the satellite tax. Nothing new. http://www.stopsatellitetax.com

Call from Mike - Triangle television ever available on Dish? Answer: No definite plans.

E-mail from Don - Why existing customer quoted $199 for 811 when new customers get it for free? Answer: Charlie rants about how they invest in new customers for an eventual financial return.

Call from Kippin - Wants to know if Canadian broadcasting can be carried. Answer: No ability to pipe Canada's channels to U.S. because of copyright restrictions.

E-mail from Elviro (sp?) Will you be adding new spanish ESPN channel to Dish Latino? Answer: Still in discussion about adding that channel.

E-mail from Don - I have a 501 and would like to upgrade? Answer: Charlie talks about how the 501 carries no monthly PVR fee. Can upgrade to 510 with $4.99 PVR fee. No fee with everything pak.

Call from Joe - Question about 921. When will it be widely available? Answer: Just started shipping units in the last 2 weeks. Supply is short. Call your retailer.

Call in question - Any plans for NFL sunday ticket? Answer: No plans because DirecTV has a contract for 4 more years.

Special guests from BingtoTV. Starts in February.
You can read more about that at http://www.bingotv.com. Bingo TV not available in: Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Texas.

Call from Brian - Where does the Spike TV channel stand? Answer: Spike is good to go for the next several years.

E-Mail questions - What is the DVR fee that's included in the everything pak? Answer: Charlie does a spill about how DVR's work.

Email from Bill - Will international programming be available using the Superdish - Answer: Yes, some of it will be.

Call from Jack - Can I point a Dish 300 to 105 to receive locals? Answer: No. Dish 300 is not large enough. You will need a superdish.

E-mail from Jason - Are there issues with installing a superdish on roof? Answer: Can be mounted on the roof but there can be issues depending on type of roof and materials.

Call from Bob - Starz East and Cinemax East are broadcasting Hi-Def but not on Dish. Any plans to carry those? Answer: Negotiations are ongoing at this time.

E-mails about sports - No YES network until negotiations can get started due to arbitrations. No tennis channel deal yet.

Call from Scott - Request for G4TV. Answer: Video game channel owned by Comcast. Some discussions have taken place. No negotiations are in progress at this time.

Tech forum February 9th. Next Charlie Chat March 8th

That's all for this month. Thanks for joining us in our chat room!


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

I think it's hilarious how they can show the $999 HD in a box. If I only could get thru and give them a piece of my fustration.


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## comet48 (Dec 18, 2003)

I called about the 811 last week and they could not give me a ship date. Charlie comes across as very genuine until you know the facts. A real BS artist. 921 in two weeks - get real!!


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## Jarrett76 (Nov 6, 2003)

What a waste of time.......


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## Sparkman87 (Apr 28, 2002)

Evansville is in IN, not Il.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Great report, Chris. I actually enjoyed it more than the CC.

By my clock, you actually beamed up your report before the Charlie Chat ended. How did you do that?








.
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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

Oh yeah, Ashley from Bingo TV looked nice. And she was cold when she first entered the studio!  :eek2:


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

Chris Blount said:


> E-mail from Don - Why existing customer quoted $199 for 811 when new customers get it for free? Answer: Charlie rants about how they invest on new customers for an eventual return.


The 508 is fee free didnt he say 510.


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## bytre (Sep 10, 2003)

Thank you for the summary, saved me the time to sit in on the chat.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

Ha Ha said:


> The 508 is fee free didnt he say 510.


I grabbed the wrong quote it was the one about the 501 duhh sorry this is one I wanted.



Chris Blount said:


> E-mail from Don - I have a 501 and would like to upgrade? Answer: Charlie talks about how the 501 carries no monthly fee. Can upgrade to 508 with $4.99 PVR fee. No fee with everything pak.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Ha Ha said:


> I grabbed the wrong quote it was the one about the 501 duhh sorry this is one I wanted.


You are correct. It's been fixed. Thanks for letting me know. It was my fat fingers again.


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## catnap1972 (May 31, 2003)

The whole issue with G4TV is irrelevant...Comcast is in negotiations to purchase TechTV and will eventually merge the two channels if they succeed....meaning it would already be available assuming Dish doesn't interpret the buyout as a breech of contract (and drop the new channel)


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## james39 (Dec 10, 2003)

Did anyone catch the list of states bingo tv isn't available in? It was on too quickly for me to read through it. I was quite surprised how many people can't play. Even New York state.. wow, burn.


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## talk000 (Jul 5, 2003)

Misleading, only showed combinations with smaller increases for AT150.

If you want AT150 and locals plus superstations CSRs still saying $2 increase. Price still $8.99 for locals plus superstations, but AT150 up $2 to $44.99. Cheaper than AT150 plus locals ($49.99) plus $5.99 for superstations.

Also, mentioned price for AT100 plus locals plus HBO/Cinemax, but interestingly no mention of AT150 plus locals plus HBO/Cinemax. Of course, if you want superstations this is moot as you need to package locals with superstations to maintain existing $2.99 reduction there.

Has anyone tried to prepay one year of AT150 plus HBO/Cinemax to get old ($59.99) price plus one month free?

Basically CC another waste of one hour.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Thanks for the cliff notes Chris, glad I watched wire in the blood on BBC now !


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Bingo TV not available in:

Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Texas.


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## DS0816 (Mar 29, 2002)

Even though I'm a DirecTV, and not Dish Network, customer, I'm curious: Why is Bingo TV not available in so many states including my own, Michigan? Is this a limited availability thing, like Turner South?


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

What a waste of an hour, can't believe Chas has the nerve to raise prices without adding channels. And could that Bingo TV "host" be any more annoying? Wow..


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## screamingmonkey (Jan 8, 2004)

catnap1972 said:


> The whole issue with G4TV is irrelevant...Comcast is in negotiations to purchase TechTV and will eventually merge the two channels if they succeed....meaning it would already be available assuming Dish doesn't interpret the buyout as a breech of contract (and drop the new channel)


Charlie owns part of TechTV, so unless Comcast buys out his portion I don't see it being removed from Dish.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

DS0816 said:


> Even though I'm a DirecTV, and not Dish Network, customer, I'm curious: Why is Bingo TV not available in so many states including my own, Michigan? Is this a limited availability thing, like Turner South?


Would guess that the reason is because of state gambling laws.


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## music_beans (Mar 21, 2003)

I thought the CBC was prohibited from airing US content.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

retiredTech said:


> Would guess that the reason is because of state gambling laws.


RetiredTech is correct. Many states have laws that only allow non-profit organizations to run BINGO games. Around here, the Catholics run most of the BINGO games.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

CBC can air whatever content it buys the right for within Canadian content laws. The problem is that CBC may buy the Canadian rights to shows that US TV stations/networks own. This is why the CBC cannot be sold via satellite in the US right now. Copyright laws.

See ya
Tony


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## markh (Mar 24, 2002)

JBKing said:


> Oh yeah, Ashley from Bingo TV looked nice. And she was cold when she first entered the studio!  :eek2:


Maybe she was just excited to see Charlie and Jim  :sure:


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## ck33 (Jan 5, 2004)

Dang me to Hades! I missed seeing Early Edition because I was watching this Dish Network drivel (which I thought would have more information than what it did, especially regarding the Turner and Viacom negotiations. Hence the reason I missed EE). 

Thanks a million, Chris, for a genuinely superb recap. It was more interesting than the CC itself.


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## voyagerbob (Jul 14, 2002)

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just get the AEP for 74.99 and the locals for 5.99 totaling 80.98. Making the increase just 99 cents. Or is the inevitable coming and the AEP going up by 3 dollars also? 

Wonder why they didn't mention the non-locals price.

voyagerbob


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

AEP by itself is going from $74.99 to $77.99
AEP+Locals is going from $79.99 to $82.99

Why no non-local price? MOICHANDISING!

"May the schwarts be with you!"

The price increases are larger if you only look at the basic package pricing.

see http://ekb.dbstalk.com/19

See ya
Tony


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

It is interesting that Grand Junction is going to use a second Dish for locals... Are they going on 148? 148 has 11 empty transponders and really could squeeze out 6 more if they wanted to... Could put 170+ LIL on there or about 25-30 small markets.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Chris Walker said:


> What a waste of an hour, can't believe Chas has the nerve to raise prices without adding channels. And could that Bingo TV "host" be any more annoying? Wow..


Hmm... seems to me that it was top 150 and is now top 180, somewhere along the line, you got new channels.. same with other packages they seem to have expanded..

Still am confused though, why do many of you all want something for nothing?

Last I checked, Charlie runs a business, in an attempt, I assume, to make a profit. New Channels cost money, Programmers providing channels want more money.

If Charlie eats the cost of adding new channels, or does not pass across the higher rates that utlimately get negotiated as best they can for exist programming, eventually you go out of business.. what good does that do..


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## Chukee (Jan 13, 2004)

hard to believe no one complained about how dish is treating their existing customers like garbage when trying to get a superdish upgrade.......Guess those email got thrown out with my complaint.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They did have one caller nail them on why new subs get better offers. Squirmed thier way out of that one, they did.

JL


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## josh711 (Jan 13, 2004)

Again Charlie and his boy wonder are at it again like everyone else has said raising prices but not services. 1st it would be nice to get local channels especially if I am now going to have to pay for them. Everytime I have called this last month I get a different answer. Nobody can tell me when they are going to get Superdishes in and when they do nobody knows when they will come out and replace it. I received a response to an e-mail I sent to dish about why new customers in my area are getting superdishes and current customers are getting the shaft. 

"The superdish is offered to new and current customers through Dishnetwork only @ 800-333-3474. The problem is that Dish has none in stock to meet the demands of all the new Direct Marketing Areas. The retailer doesn't want to offer it to current customer because they make a higher commission installing a new customer, therefore putting the current customer on the back burner."

That comes directly from dish network. 

Again thanks for the summary very helpful and I am glad one customer got through tonight and caught Charlie in the act.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Josh,

You do NOT have to pay for locals.
AT60 without locals $24.99
AT120 without locals $34.99
AT180 without locals $44.99
AEP without locals $77.99

They only mention the packages with locals because it makes the price increases look smaller. From now on you will see most adversing talking about the packages with locals since close to 80% of the country's population is now covered by local channels on Dish. This is to combat the cable companies attacks that satellite systems charge extra for locals

See ya
Tony


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## Cruiser_ss396 (Jan 8, 2004)

I was supposed to get installed on Jan 7th with an 811 and two 300 (300? not sure if that right), I was cancelled and I was supposed to get installed on Jan 14th, got the call today that it has moved to the 21st of Jan. I am now wondering what date they will push it to next. 

The talk about new subs getting prferntal treatment is not true in my case ( I am a new sub to dish, moving from DTV). I have been getting the run around, I have also been complaining to them about it. I was on the phone for anhour tonight and almost went back to DTV but a smart CSR figured they better sweeten the deal and give me some credit torwds my bill when and if I ever get installed. I shot for the moon and asked for 6 mo free and ended up with my current offer plus about $150.00 in credit on top of that. Now all I have to is get installed to used the credit i was givin. We will see what happens. They had nothing to loose but a new sub if I still walk. If I stay it will be worth $$$ the wait at least. 

Joe


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

justalurker said:


> They did have one caller nail them on why new subs get better offers. Squirmed thier way out of that one, they did.
> 
> JL


Well I guess the free instalation and free addtl reciever I got when I became a new sub to E* means nothing to you. That times a couple of hundred thousand new subs is a lot of money. Now that better equipment is available I dont mind paying half price for a new 510 or 811. It's all business the bottom line is money. E* has a better product and they know it. They also know the consumer mentality, there are way too many Bob Haller's people who want something for nothing people who nit pick at the littlest thing people who expect a company to bend over backwards when the customer threatings to cancle. I say good riddance to anny one who doesnt like E* go become a thorn in D* ass.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Cruiser_ss396 said:


> I was supposed to get installed on Jan 7th with an 811 and two 300 (300? not sure if that right), I was cancelled and I was supposed to get installed on Jan 14th, got the call today that it has moved to the 21st of Jan. I am now wondering what date they will push it to next.
> 
> The talk about new subs getting preferential treatment is not true in my case (I am a new sub to dish, moving from DTV). I have been getting the run around, I have also been complaining to them about it. I was on the phone for anhour tonight and almost went back to DTV but a smart CSR figured they better sweeten the deal and give me some credit towards my bill when and if I ever get installed. I shot for the moon and asked for 6 mo free and ended up with my current offer plus about $150.00 in credit on top of that. Now all I have to is get installed to used the credit i was given. We will see what happens. They had nothing to lose but a new sub if I still walk. If I stay it will be worth $$$ the wait at least.


_"I was on the phone for an hour tonight and almost went back to DTV but a smart CSR figured they better sweeten the deal and give me some credit towards my bill when and if I ever get installed. I shot for the moon and asked for 6 mo free and ended up with my current offer plus about $150.00 in credit on top of that."_

That Cruiser actually received any concessions at all from a Dishnetwork CSR may be very significant on three levels. First, that E* is (back) in the subscriber retention mode. Second, that a lowly CSR was authorized to give a sub a break, and third, that Dish is acknowledging that install appointments are being broken by the ton and they better do something about it - quick.


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## mindwarp (May 19, 2003)

I have one question, what are the channels that have been or will be added to change the AT100 to AT120?


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

Hi. I may be able to provide some of the answers you are looking for. I was a long time Dish Network employee (CSR) who recently quit because of the absolutely abyssmal way they treat their staff. That works out pretty good for you, because I'm more than willing to Dish out the dirt.

First, the SuperDish. Maybe the worst business decision Dish has ever made. When the SD was announced, we were told on the very first day that installation dates would be _at least_ a month away for existing customers. New customers might catch a break, but we were instructed to inform existing customers that they could expect at least a 30 day delay before receiving a SuperDish. In reality, that time was more like 2-3 months in most cases. Even new customers were feeling it... a new installation could usually be scheduled as soon as 48 hours after calling; when the SD hit, new installs were often delayed 2-3 weeks. The reason new customers get it so much faster is just as stated above... new customers bring in more revenue potential than existing customers.

The other reason is behind the scenes... Dish treats its retailers like dirt, so they're currently experiencing a mass exodus of retailers who are flatly unwilling to install a SuperDish. My mom and stepdad are installers in the Richmond, VA area. Dish typically cuts them $50 for installing a D500 for a new customer. A D500 install usually takes 60-90 minutes. The SuperDish installs take anywhere from 2 to 4 hours, and Dish has blindly decided not to pay their retailers any extra money... still the same $50. So imagine the installer's reaction when he finds out he's expected to learn, carry, and install this new line of more complicated dishes, but isn't going to be compensated for his extra effort. Result: YOU wait longer for your installation because half of Dish's installers refuse to carry this product.

If you have a date scheduled for a SuperDish installation, do NOT cancel it. Don't add any more services, don't change the details of the installation, DO NOTHING. Any changes made to that work order will force the computer system to reschedule the installation, and you'll be stuck starting over with another 3 month wait. The CSR has no control over this, and neither do the floor supervisors, so there's no sense escalating this call. You might get results from the Executive Office, but now that Soraya's gone, they're running around like chickens with no heads.

Second topic: Why do new customers get better deals than existing customers? This is how business works... not just Dish, but also land and celluar phones, internet providers, and just about any other electronic service you subscribe to. Dish wants to entice new customers into subscribing under a contract by providing them "free" equipment if they agree to stick with Dish for a year or two. If all goes well, the customer pays his bill, and the installation doesn't get screwed up (requiring multiple trouble calls), Dish will break even on that new customer right around the end of his contract. They're hoping most people choose to stay with the company so they can break into the black on their investment.

These deals aren't available to existing customers. I don't know how many times I heard "I would gladly sign a 2 year contract to get that DVR for free, just like a new customer." Why Dish doesn't allow that option, I have no idea. But they don't, they outline entirely different promotions for existing customers. But you know what? 9 times out of 10, you don't want the junk they offer to new customers. You don't _want_ a Dish Player DVR 510... except for the increased hard drive space, it's functionally identical to the 501/508 models. EXCEPT they charge you a $4.98/mo. "Dish Video-on-Demand Service Fee" for use of the DVR features that are free on the 501/508 model. There are instances where a 322/522 might be useful for an existing customer, but these receivers are subject to hidden fees and charges also that you can avoid just by using a 301/501 you can purchase off Ebay. In short, you're better off giving Dish promotions the finger all together and finding yourself a used 508.

Finally, if you DO want a DVR 510 for some reason, ask them for the special DVR promotion. They're still running the promotion, but CSRs were forbidden to mention it or sell it when DVR inventory got low. They do honor the promotion if you ask for it by name, however. If you're interested in a 301, your best bet is to ask for "Dishin' it Out Like New," another reduced-price promotion that they don't mention unless you get cranky or ask for it by name. Dishin' it Out offers a remanufactured 301 for $69, installed. Be aware that the equipment warranty for this receiver is 90 days, not a year, and not every account qualifies for this promotion. Your monthly rate must be $40 or higher... a qualification we were also forbidden to disclose.

Finally, I understand that 70% of the CSRs you talk to sound like incompetant morons. But do try to understand that the company changes their policies on a daily basis, and it's almost impossible for the common CSR to keep up with what Charlie and Soraya want day to day. Half of the incorrect information you're told by CSRs is because they probably have no idea themselves, or are instructed to give answers that don't make a lot of sense. Most of the time, the consumer gets information about new promotions or policy changes BEFORE the employees are told. Yes, imagine coming in to work and finding out that your company released a new receiver promotion a week ago, and you've been giving customers the wrong information for five days. Not every CSR reads press releases and follows Charlie Chats in their spare time. You would think that we wouldn't have to.

Be patient, call back or ask for a supervisor if you aren't getting the answers you want. But do keep in mind that Dish is a business, and be conscious that they are not prone to giving away credits and equipment, particularly to customers with low (under $50/month) monthly rates.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

By the way, I'm just a guest user here. I may continue to read posts or I might forget... if you have any pressing questions that you don't seem to be able to get answers to, hit me at [email protected] and I'll try my best to answer you honestly.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Nothing is being added. THere were already that amny channels.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> Bingo TV not available in:
> 
> Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Texas.


Bingo TV , Having a lot of trouble removing the marker from my big screen.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

Throwbot said:


> Bingo TV , Having a lot of trouble removing the marker from my big screen.


 Don't use a permanent marker next time.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

EchoDork said:


> Second topic: Why do new customers get better deals than existing customers? This is how business works... not just Dish, but also land and celluar phones, internet providers, and just about any other electronic service you subscribe to.


But you are wrong there. The cell phone industry in some respects is very similiar to the satellite/catv industry. There are several very large players all trying to get ahold of your money.

When I sign a contract for T-Mobile or Verizon for a year (or two), at the end of the contract, I can sign a new contract, get a new phone, and get the same rebates a true new customer would get. I could also switch to Sprint and come back in a year and I'd be a new customer again. The cell phone companies will continuously subsidize my purchase of equipment by having me remain a customer.

I'd be happy to remain a dish customer for life (assuming they ever get my fricking locals activated) if they'd toss me the same bone that they give new customers. I'd willing sign up for the same commitment as new customers so that I can stay current with my equipment.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

cdru said:


> But you are wrong there. The cell phone industry in some respects is very similiar to the satellite/catv industry. There are several very large players all trying to get ahold of your money.
> 
> When I sign a contract for T-Mobile or Verizon for a year (or two), at the end of the contract, I can sign a new contract, get a new phone, and get the same rebates a true new customer would get. I could also switch to Sprint and come back in a year and I'd be a new customer again. The cell phone companies will continuously subsidize my purchase of equipment by having me remain a customer.
> 
> I'd be happy to remain a dish customer for life (assuming they ever get my fricking locals activated) if they'd toss me the same bone that they give new customers. I'd willing sign up for the same commitment as new customers so that I can stay current with my equipment.


Apples and oranges why does everybody compare satellite tv to cell phones.

It is a diffrent industry entirely. A new Dish customer receives a free instalation worth a hundred bucks or so. Most of the time new subs also get free equipment worth a couple of hundred dollars that plus any promos towards monthly bill credits and it can in some cases be 4 or 5 hundred dollars given to you for free. That times how ever many hundreds of thousands of new subs getting all that free stuff is a lot of money. Ypu people are like spoiled children gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme. If you wont gimme I am going to find another friend to play with. Well that freind is D* and they are waitng for you give them a call at 1 800 577 0011 or visit this web site:

http://www.directtvsatellite.com/


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

Jarrett76 said:


> What a waste of time.......


Whine whine whine. If I were you I'd switch to DirecTV for the Rupert Chat or to Comcast for the Com-Con Chat!

Their Senior Executives face the customers too right?


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

Chris Walker said:


> What a waste of an hour, can't believe Chas has the nerve to raise prices without adding channels. And could that Bingo TV "host" be any more annoying? Wow..


E-mail those no good low down scoundrels Charlie Ergen and Jim DeFranco and cancel your service immediately.

How dare they go live on the air in front of any subscriber and waste their hour!!!! Rant.....Rave..... show your anger to them man!!!!

I'm angry as well.... my monthly programming has gone up one cent from last year.... that's 12 cents year!!!!!

It's almost as bad as rising gas prices..... something like 45 cents a gallon where I live.

Or milk and power bills and the increase in my cell phones bills.

Oh..... only a penny. THANKS Charlie for NOT listening to the whiners here and running a tight ship and not caving to every programmer looking to get a few extra bucks per subscriber. I can live without Oxygen and Trio thank you!!!!

I think I'll stay with DISH!!!

-Earl
Yankee born Southern bred


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## EchoDork (Jan 13, 2004)

cdru said:


> But you are wrong there. The cell phone industry in some respects is very similiar to the satellite/catv industry. There are several very large players all trying to get ahold of your money.


I agree, there are a couple of providers for different services moving in the direction of universal promotions. The DVR 510 promotion (the one we weren't allowed to disclose) is actually identical for new and existing customers as well... free with a 2-year committment, $99 with a 1-year. In order to create promotions for existing customers, Dish has started implementing minimum-rate requirements. They're trying to avoid losing money on an AT50-only customer who takes a free equipment promotion, requires two trouble calls after the initial installation, then disconnects as soon as his contract ends. This could be avoided by making sure installation is done properly the first time, but that's a can of worms I won't open here :nono2:


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## James Hill (Jul 24, 2003)

Stupid question: I'm currently a subscriber to AT150 and locals. Does the change to "AT180 + Locals" mean that my monthy fee is going down $5 ($5.99 monthly for locals - $1 raise in AT150)?

James Hill


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## EchoDork (Jan 13, 2004)

No, the price for AT180+Locals is $49.99. You're paying an extra $1.01.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Nick said:


> Great report, Chris. I actually enjoyed it more than the CC.
> 
> By my clock, you actually beamed up your report before the Charlie Chat ended. How did you do that?
> 
> ...


Pretty amazing eh? I got an advanced copy of the Charlie Chat. :lol:

Actually I began the thread before the chat started so I could do a live summary. That way when the chat ended, it would be complete and ready for review.


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## James Hill (Jul 24, 2003)

EchoDork said:


> No, the price for AT180+Locals is $49.99. You're paying an extra $1.01.


This now means I'm paying $10 more than the comparable DirecTV package and $7 more than the comparable cable package.

Good job Charlie.

James Hill


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

Not meant to be a flame, but an honest question:

If Charlie is such a champion for the little guy, i.e. - running a tight ship and doing his best to fight programmer's price increases - why is E* not any cheaper than D*?

For example, a good argument could be made that Total Choice Plus with locals at 39.99 is a MUCH better value than AT180 with locals at 49.99. Sure you miss the Encores and 2 Movie Channels but for $12 more, you can add the entire Starz package to TC+ (a total of 51.99) and only pay $2 more than AT180. If you added Starz to AT180 with locals, you are paying $61.98, an incredible $10 more! :eek2:

I realize one can arrange the different packages so many ways between E* and D* and come up with a different argument, but I don't see how Charlie can say with a straight face that he is fighting so hard to keep our bills down. D* doesn't use that excuse, in fact, they come to agreements usually quite a bit quicker than E*, implying D* works 'smarter, not harder'? Is D* not fighting as hard to control costs? If they are not, how come their programming packages aren't considerably higher than E*'s? If they are fighting just like E*, what credibility does that leave Charlie?

I no longer buy the argument that Charlie is fighting for 'us'. Sure, he is doing what he can to control costs, just like any business, but the fruits of his efforts certainly aren't 'trickling down' to me, and he certainly isn't out there doing anything different than any other company.

BTW, anyone else pick up on Charlie saying something like, this is the time of year we do price increases? So that's a yearly price increase now? Sounds like a cable company to me! 

<rant off> Nothing burns my @@@ more than a price increase!  $2.01 for me, it looks like. I have AT180 with locals and superstations. Evidently, the 8.99 locals + superstations is not available with the AT180+locals price of 49.99.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Lot of good info there, EchoDork. Thanks.


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## EchoDork (Jan 13, 2004)

JBKing said:


> Not meant to be a flame, but an honest question:


For those keeping track at home, last February heralded a price increase as well, $2 across the board. I don't really dwell on it, satellite service is keeping up with the rate of inflation.

My opinion of Charlie is somewhere in the middle of the road. ESPN raised their operating costs 20% this year, forcing some very tough decisions with service providers. Several cable companies moved ESPN from their basic package to their premium packages to compensate for the increase. We had a PANIC for about two days that we were going to lose ESPN, but Charlie did whatever he needed to do to keep ESPN in the AT50 (AT60 now) without specifically raising rates. He's fighting all right... sometimes a little too hard. Sometimes it takes forever to move forward with negotiations because Charlie sweats every nickel and dime. I guess it's better than the alternative.

Unless Dish Network loses Viacom.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

James Hill said:


> This now means I'm paying $10 more than the comparable DirecTV package and $7 more than the comparable cable package.
> 
> Good job Charlie.
> 
> James Hill


When you say comparable - what are you comparing to Direct TV? If you can get a comparable package from Cable for less, that is not the situation for most us. But for some it is possible.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

tampa8 said:


> When you say comparable - what are you comparing to Direct TV? If you can get a comparable package from Cable for less, that is not the situation for most us. But for some it is possible.


I dumped E* for Comcast. I got the Comcast Digital Platinum package (channel list http://www.comcast.com/Support/viewCLU.asp?CLUID=82880) for $86.99, which includes one SD STB and $5 for a HD STB, total $91.66.

E* with AEP+Locals is $82.99, plus $9.99 for the HD package and $4.99 for 2nd receiver charge, total $97.97, $6.31 more then Comcast.

So if you look at my channel list, I get a bunch more channels the E* and pay less. Charlie better watch out, the pig is coming after him.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2004)

JBKing said:


> Not meant to be a flame, but an honest question:
> 
> If Charlie is such a champion for the little guy, i.e. - running a tight ship and doing his best to fight programmer's price increases - why is E* not any cheaper than D*?
> 
> ...


Charlie is fighting to do what's best for his company, a publicly traded company with a responsibility to provide shareholder value. I'm a customer and own a few shares of Echo as well and am pleased with performance on both counts.

He can only remain successful by attracting new, and keeping existing customers. He seems to be doing well on both counts.

It's no secret that Charlie is in this for the long haul, and the one thing we can all agree on is that Charlie is pretty darn straight with everyone he deals with.

His job as a CEO is NOT to listen and freak out over every rant and rave posted here, there and everywhere, but to make solid business decisions. He's a tough businessman, a tough employer and even the likes of Rupert Murdoch and John Malone have the highest respect for him.

As do the programmers his team negotiates with.

All I know is, his company provides me with a solid and dependable television programming service, at a price we can nicely afford. We enjoy technology like the 721 and 501 receivers in our house, and lookforward to the 921 arriving shortly along with an HD Monitor.

Like I said, I'm satisfied as both a customer and shareholder. Others may disagree, and thanks to our wonderful system of free enterprise, they have other programming services to choose from.

-Earl
Yankee born Southern bred


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## freakmonkey (Sep 11, 2003)

RAD said:


> I dumped E* for Comcast. I got the Comcast Digital Platinum package (channel list http://www.comcast.com/Support/viewCLU.asp?CLUID=82880) for $86.99, which includes one SD STB and $5 for a HD STB, total $91.66.
> 
> E* with AEP+Locals is $82.99, plus $9.99 for the HD package and $4.99 for 2nd receiver charge, total $97.97, $6.31 more then Comcast.
> 
> So if you look at my channel list, I get a bunch more channels the E* and pay less. Charlie better watch out, the pig is coming after him.


How many tv's do you have hooked up?

I have 3 tv's AEP my locals 2 distant net cities the superstations my bill is only 103.00 per month. How much is com cast going to charge to get digital boxes on all the tv's in your house(oink oink)? Also com cast does not offer the distant nets or the superstations or my super cool never let me down 508 and my new 510.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

RAD said:


> I dumped E* for Comcast. I got the Comcast Digital Platinum package (channel list http://www.comcast.com/Support/viewCLU.asp?CLUID=82880) for $86.99, which includes one SD STB and $5 for a HD STB, total $91.66.
> 
> E* with AEP+Locals is $82.99, plus $9.99 for the HD package and $4.99 for 2nd receiver charge, total $97.97, $6.31 more then Comcast.
> 
> So if you look at my channel list, I get a bunch more channels the E* and pay less. Charlie better watch out, the pig is coming after him.


And with my AEP I have 4 PVRs with no monthly fees (a 921, a 510, and 2 Dishplayers). I think I just made up the difference. Also, don't forget to include the free upgrade to a 2nd dish for CBS-HD and additional NY locals, the free additional SW64 switch + installation I got when I added the 510 in November, 2003 in exchange for a 2 year commitment. I paid $179 each for my 2 Dishplayers in April 2001 and I can sell them for twice that on EBay when I decide I'm ready to upgrade those as well. $1.99 a month is paid for what I call PVR insurance as the hard drives will eventually fail, but haven't yet.

PLUS, with my new 921 I now have pristine, UNCOMPRESSED HD content. No artifacts, no pixellation, and no edge enhancement that I can detect. Voom may be able to brag about having more HD content right now, but the gaping hole in their SD content excludes them for me. There is no way they can compete with ONE satellite slot. They may be a niche player, but you can't pay the bills on high end early adopters ONLY.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

freakmonkey said:


> How many tv's do you have hooked up?
> 
> I have 3 tv's AEP my locals 2 distant net cities the superstations my bill is only 103.00 per month. How much is com cast going to charge to get digital boxes on all the tv's in your house(oink oink)? Also com cast does not offer the distant nets or the superstations or my super cool never let me down 508 and my new 510.


Comcast charges the same for a digital STB as E* charges for mirroring a receiver, $4.99 per month, so there is no difference in price there, both the same. Plus I don't have to sell my soul to Charlie for 12 to 24 months so I don't have to pay for one of his great STB's. So far I haven't had to reset my Motorola 5100 HD STB vs. wearing a path in the carpet to reset his POS 811 that I had for two weeks. Plus if I don't care about the digitial stations, like for a guest bedroom, I can just hook the cable up there and our guests get over 60 analog stations that I don't have to pay anything for.

Our Comcast system doesn't have a PVR available yet, sometime this year, which we're hearing will rent for around $7 to 8 per month. In the mean time I'm using my much cooler then your 50X's Replay 5504 and 5508, which are networked together and using one of my PC's with DVArchive as a serve.

Sorry, I don't need distance net's or Superstations, I get all the networks from our local stations, including UPN and the WB.

Sorry, but in my case Comcast, which I'm also getting broadband internet from, is providing me a better deal with more channels then two face Charlie currently is. Plus on 2/3 I'm getting Starz Kids, Starz-HD and Cinemax-HD added, what are you getting, Bingo and a new additional cost adult channel. Enjoy!


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> And with my AEP I have 4 PVRs with no monthly fees (a 921, a 510, and 2 Dishplayers). I think I just made up the difference. Also, don't forget to include the free upgrade to a 2nd dish for CBS-HD and additional NY locals, the free additional SW64 switch + installation I got when I added the 510 in November, 2003 in exchange for a 2 year commitment. I paid $179 each for my 2 Dishplayers in April 2001 and I can sell them for twice that on EBay when I decide I'm ready to upgrade those as well. $1.99 a month is paid for what I call PVR insurance as the hard drives will eventually fail, but haven't yet.
> 
> PLUS, with my new 921 I now have pristine, UNCOMPRESSED HD content. No artifacts, no pixellation, and no edge enhancement that I can detect. Voom may be able to brag about having more HD content right now, but the gaping hole in their SD content excludes them for me. There is no way they can compete with ONE satellite slot. They may be a niche player, but you can't pay the bills on high end early adopters ONLY.


Yes, Dish will give you deals on stuff, as long as you make a commitment for 12 or 24 months. What will you do if Charlie and Viacom can't come to terms and you found out your CBS feed is gone, along with the rest of Viacom? Switch to DirecTV, not until October since you still have your commitment, or pay Charlie a bunch of money.

I'm glad you're happy with your $1,000 921, I was #5 on Scott's list for one over at the other guys but after Charlie's no new HD worth it and the 811's performance I cancelled. I don't see what folks are so willing to give Charlie a bunch of money for hardware that's loaded with bugs and doesn't have all the advertisied features in it. Scott was just today talking about how is 721 has the latest beta code in it that has the OpenTV applications, how many months/years to get something in beta that was an announced feature in the box (let alone the stuff that's been officially cancelled such as internet).

I'm not saying that Comcast, or any cable provider, is better then Dish or DirecTV, but in my case I get more programming at a cheaper price. Do I wish Comcast had a HD PVR now, yes, but the Motorola 6208 is due out in a few months, and I don't have to pay $1,000 for the privlage or getting one. My point is in my posts is that maybe folks should start to give Dish a hard look and see what alternative are available out there. If you like buying substandard hardware, not getting the programming you want, being told by the CEO one thing one month then something completly different the next, stay and be happy. I may be with the pig but you're all lemmings following Charlie. Sorry, but Dish has lost any respect that I used to have for them as a company and will never get another $ of my money.


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## mattyro (Nov 26, 2002)

RAD- I dont know where you live but I am in CT. Charlie provides me with locals,and locals from Chicago and Los Angeles. Can Comcast do that??I also didnt catch whether your ReplayTV charged you a monthly fee or not, does it? You also didnt mention which satellite provider you have, after all this is a satellite forum. How can you speak of which you know nothing? Where is this path you are wearing out? Do you actually own an 811? Do you just pretend you own one by reading comments in the forums?Oh. I see- you had one for 2 weeks. Well, where is it now?Youre right if you dont care about digital blah blah..You know what?? If I didnt care about color, I could hook up an antenna to a 13 inch b+w!! You can rationalize as much as you like to make something sound like the component of your dreams.Comcast doesnt have a PVR yet-yeah thats cutting edge technology--only NASA and TIVO and DISH have rights to that decade old technology!! What will you do when Crapcast offers a pvr?? Give up your hi def? not get a pvr? put the pvr in the bedroom for the guests?? Gee, is there any company that actually has a HD PVR??By the way the replay units are yours--not mine. A little remedial grammar/language course maybe??Enjoy!!


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## James Hill (Jul 24, 2003)

tampa8 said:


> When you say comparable - what are you comparing to Direct TV? If you can get a comparable package from Cable for less, that is not the situation for most us. But for some it is possible.


That's comparing "AT180 + Locals" to "Total Choice Plus with Locals". Those would be the comparable packages for that price range and list of channels.

James Hill


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

mattyro said:


> RAD- I dont know where you live but I am in CT. Charlie provides me with locals,and locals from Chicago and Los Angeles. Can Comcast do that??I also didnt catch whether your ReplayTV charged you a monthly fee or not, does it? You also didnt mention which satellite provider you have, after all this is a satellite forum. How can you speak of which you know nothing? Where is this path you are wearing out? Do you actually own an 811? Do you just pretend you own one by reading comments in the forums?Oh. I see- you had one for 2 weeks. Well, where is it now?Youre right if you dont care about digital blah blah..You know what?? If I didnt care about color, I could hook up an antenna to a 13 inch b+w!! You can rationalize as much as you like to make something sound like the component of your dreams.Comcast doesnt have a PVR yet-yeah thats cutting edge technology--only NASA and TIVO and DISH have rights to that decade old technology!! What will you do when Crapcast offers a pvr?? Give up your hi def? not get a pvr? put the pvr in the bedroom for the guests?? Gee, is there any company that actually has a HD PVR??By the way the replay units are yours--not mine. A little remedial grammar/language course maybe??Enjoy!!


I live in the Chicago area so I don't need out of market stations. I do speak from experience since I had D* from late 1996 until 5/2001 when I switched to E*. With E* I had a 501 and a 508 along with a 6000+8VSB+8PSK which I sold when I purchased the 811. So yes this is a DBS forum and I've paid my dues using both DBS providers (sorry, Voom is a nitch player at this time).

Yes, the Replay's have either a monthly or a one time charge on top of the purchase price. Yes, those charges are much more then Dish's PVR fee but I get something that Dish folks are been asking for since their PVR's came out, name based recording. Does Comcast have PVR's out now, yes they do, they are in beta on a few systems, both SD and HD versions. Yes, Dish is in beta with the 921's now  so we're even.

Is there any company that has a HD PVR, yes, Zenith has had their HRD-230 out for awhile now and their parent company LG has their next generation unit, the LST-3410A out in beta now, but I'm sure your really already knew that since you're an expert in all of this.


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## Neutron (Oct 2, 2003)

I don't understand why us existing customers can't get a deal on the 322 and 522?? What gives??

I tried to call in to charlie chat to ask when those would be available and I was told my question wasn't deemed good enough for the chat, yet some of the questions for freakin stupid that they let on the air.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

James Hill said:


> That's comparing "AT180 + Locals" to "Total Choice Plus with Locals". Those would be the comparable packages for that price range and list of channels.
> 
> James Hill


I don't have time right this minute to check - maybe someone else will post a better answer - but last I saw there were some differences - Top180 includes the movies theme channels for example and I don't believe Direct does. It also includes GOAL TV and NBA TV and again without looking now, I'm not sure Direct does. I'm not disputing the actual cost, but just that I'm not sure they are quite that compatible.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

"good enough for the chat" means easy enough that Charlie can answer without looking like a moron. Oops, on of the screeners let through the Triangle TV question, but I'm guessing he asked another question to the screener and then changed his question.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

RAD said:


> Comcast charges the same for a digital STB as E* charges for mirroring a receiver, $4.99 per month, so there is no difference in price there, both the same. Plus I don't have to sell my soul to Charlie for 12 to 24 months so I don't have to pay for one of his great STB's. So far I haven't had to reset my Motorola 5100 HD STB vs. wearing a path in the carpet to reset his POS 811 that I had for two weeks. Plus if I don't care about the digitial stations, like for a guest bedroom, I can just hook the cable up there and our guests get over 60 analog stations that I don't have to pay anything for.
> 
> Our Comcast system doesn't have a PVR available yet, sometime this year, which we're hearing will rent for around $7 to 8 per month. In the mean time I'm using my much cooler then your 50X's Replay 5504 and 5508, which are networked together and using one of my PC's with DVArchive as a serve.
> 
> ...


Then what the f.... are you even doing in this forum. A troll?

Ken


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

kstevens said:


> Then what the f.... are you even doing in this forum. A troll?
> 
> Ken


Because I like ragging you stupid SOB's that blindly follow E* and whatever Charlied doing to you. :sure:

Hey, I'm not a fan of Comcast, but after doing some research and seeing folks make blanket statements saying that Comcast costs more then DBS and provides less service I think I need to say that it's not true in all cases. Maybe someone is looking at this forum for information on a direction they should take for getting HD. Would you tell them to rush out and get a Dish 811 receiver, if you do then I don't think you've had the honor of using one like I have, it's a POS.

My orignal post on this thread was a comment about comparing prices for packages between different providers, I responded with a link showing that my Comcast system has more channels and I pay less then what I was paying E*, that was it. From there it went down hill, questioning what DBS provider I had (E* until 12/14) and if I actually had the 811 (yep and was even talking to one of their developers about the bugs in it).

Last I knew this was a place to trade information to help folks make good decisions. I guess I was wrong, you only want to hear about things that say DBS service is better then cable.

Rick


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

freakmonkey said:


> How many tv's do you have hooked up?
> 
> I have 3 tv's AEP my locals 2 distant net cities the superstations my bill is only 103.00 per month. How much is com cast going to charge to get digital boxes on all the tv's in your house(oink oink)? Also com cast does not offer the distant nets or the superstations or my super cool never let me down 508 and my new 510.


>> I have 3 tv's AEP my locals 2 distant net cities <<

That's the part I find interesting. My locals are not yet available. I am grandfathered for two distant nets. Can I get my locals, when available, and still keep my out of area stations? From your statement, it would appear so.


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## EchoDork (Jan 13, 2004)

Generally speaking, when local affiliates become available in a new market, they restrict access to distant networks for those customers. If you have grandfathered active waivers, you might be safe. If you're just in an area that qualifies for distants, you can expect to lose them when locals become available.

That's a network thing... the advertisers in Peoria, IL want you to see Peoria commercials, not New York commercials when you watch Seinfeld. So advertisers pressure the networks, who in turn restrict access to distants. There are some cases where markets are eligible to receive distants AND locals, you can get grandfathered if you have waivers, and you can do it if you own an RV... but generally speaking, it's one or the other.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

RAD said:


> Because I like ragging you stupid SOB's that blindly follow E* and whatever Charlied doing to you. :sure:
> 
> Hey, I'm not a fan of Comcast, but after doing some research and seeing folks make blanket statements saying that Comcast costs more then DBS and provides less service I think I need to say that it's not true in all cases. Maybe someone is looking at this forum for information on a direction they should take for getting HD. Would you tell them to rush out and get a Dish 811 receiver, if you do then I don't think you've had the honor of using one like I have, it's a POS.
> 
> ...


Just what I thought, a troll.

Ken


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## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

It's a shame when intelligent conversation breaks down into name calling. Still, I think at least two very good points are being made:

1. Dishnetwork can be a very good deal for some people. It was for me when I first subscribed.
2. Dishnetwork may not be the best deal for everyone. I recently switched to another provider and am saving money while getting more of what I want.

It's an individual decision and there aren't any blanket statements that apply to everyone. Personally, I think most people on this board have already made up their minds about what they want & who they want it from so the economics are secondary. Kind of an icing on the cake if it costs them a little less to get what they want and a non-issue if it costs a little more. I wanted a DVR/house server for 2 TVs, the networks, and a smattering of other channels such as SciFi, Comedy, Toon, etc. E* couldn't give me that after over a year of waiting so I got the next best thing from someone else. But I still read these threads because I like the way Charlie makes cable companies and service providers sweat.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

kstevens said:


> Then what the f.... are you even doing in this forum. A troll?
> 
> Ken


Talk about bringing down the level. I don't think this is deserved. I certainly like hearing alternate opinions/options.

JUST KEEP IT FRIENDLY !!!


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Come on guys. Lets get back on track here please.


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## Neutron (Oct 2, 2003)

What is everyone's opinion on what Charlie said in the chat?

This will get us back on topic.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RAD said:


> I dumped E* for Comcast. I got the Comcast Digital Platinum package (channel list http://www.comcast.com/Support/viewCLU.asp?CLUID=82880) for $86.99, which includes one SD STB and $5 for a HD STB, total $91.66.
> 
> E* with AEP+Locals is $82.99, plus $9.99 for the HD package and $4.99 for 2nd receiver charge, total $97.97, $6.31 more then Comcast.
> 
> So if you look at my channel list, I get a bunch more channels the E* and pay less. Charlie better watch out, the pig is coming after him.


In my market, the price for additional receivers is $10 for SD and $15 for HD.

My cost for this would be:
Digital Platinum: $94.99
Additional HD box $15.00
====================
Total $109.00

Comcast still doesn't offer DVR or DVOD services in many markets (including mine).

I subscribe to Limited Basic with Comcast as it is effectively about $1.05 more than not subscribing when you take the $10 bundle into account.

Channel count is irrelevant if they still don't carry what you want. My pet peeves with Comcast are that they don't carry NASA and they don't carry any of my local NBA team's games live (they replay them the night of the game at 23:30 on the Comcast Channel). If you want Speed Channel or TechTV, you must pony up another $6.95 a month for a special tier that is not included in the DP package; they come bundled with AT50 or higher. Another Comcast drawback is that you must have at least digital box to get any kind of PPV or "premium" channels.

I subscribe to AT150 w/HBO & Cinemax and I don't feel that I'm missing out on much other than the occasional Showtime exclusive.

I do have to say that I much prefer the music on Comcast to the somewhat obscure offerings from Dish (many of which are monaural).


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2004)

RAD said:


> Because I like ragging you stupid SOB's that blindly follow E* and whatever Charlied doing to you. :sure:
> 
> Hey, I'm not a fan of Comcast, but after doing some research and seeing folks make blanket statements saying that Comcast costs more then DBS and provides less service I think I need to say that it's not true in all cases. Maybe someone is looking at this forum for information on a direction they should take for getting HD. Would you tell them to rush out and get a Dish 811 receiver, if you do then I don't think you've had the honor of using one like I have, it's a POS.
> 
> ...


SOB?? yep... but not stupid!!!

-Earl
Yankee born Southern bred


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## James Hill (Jul 24, 2003)

tampa8 said:


> I don't have time right this minute to check - maybe someone else will post a better answer - but last I saw there were some differences - Top180 includes the movies theme channels for example and I don't believe Direct does. It also includes GOAL TV and NBA TV and again without looking now, I'm not sure Direct does. I'm not disputing the actual cost, but just that I'm not sure they are quite that compatible.


That's why I'm saying comparable and not identical.

James Hill


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

harsh said:


> In my market, the price for additional receivers is $10 for SD and $15 for HD.
> 
> My cost for this would be:
> Digital Platinum: $94.99
> ...


Here in my area Comcast was charging $89.24/mo for their Digital Platnam package with 1 SD receiver or $94.24/mo with an HD receiver, on 2/1 the rate will go to $92/mo with SD or $97/mo with HD. Extra digital receivers here run $6.50 for SD or $11.50 for HD. Comcast here does have a few more Premium movie channels and has some MTV and VH1 channels that E* or D* do not have, however E* AEP has more channels total then Comcast Digital Platnum, E* is still a better value here in Chattanooga, even for their biggest packages.

Comcast Digital Plus here is going from $56.94 to $58.70 on 2/1, this package has some West feeds of the Encore Multiplex, Flix and Sundace and like above some MTV and VH1 channels that E* does not currently have, however AT150 (AT180 on 2/1) also has a few more channels over all, and at $49.99 w/locals is still the better value here in my opinion.

Comcast Preferred Basic here with 65 analog channels including 8 locals is gong from $40.99/mo to $43.75/mo on 2/1 compared to E* AT100 (120 on 2/1) w/locals, includes 97 channels including 7 locals plus the 32 Dish CD channels and a epg for only $39.99/mo, and AT50(60 on 2/1) with 67 channels including locals for just $29.99/mo, once again E* is still the better value here.


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## DS0816 (Mar 29, 2002)

I can follow RAD's assertion about price and quality differences and that he said Comcast isn't so bad after all. Detroit area Comcast -- dominant in the Motor City -- is now offering Digital Plus (chs. 1-290) plus HBO for about $35. I heard this so quickly on the radio, but the gist of it is that's introductory and, more importantly, a sign that Comcast certainly recognizes the competition in DirecTV and Dish Network and is willing to fight to lure customers.

But in general, the cable systems vary so dramatically in different parts of this country -- cable franchises being local vs. minidish programmers that are national -- that it has me going back to thinking, strictly for programming, minidish beats cable. But nothing, in the long run, can defeat doing _research_.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

I care less about how many channels. I doubt I would notice the difference between AT150 and the top Comcast (non-premium) package.

BUT - In Denver Comcast now carries StarzHD and CinemaxHD (I guess Charlie doesn't consider these channels "compelling"). Comcast Denver is also being VERY aggressive getting the HD locals online (which Satellite will never get). Denver full power HD broadcast towers are still a year off.

Most likely I'm sticking with E*, but the pull from Cable is certainly getting stronger. If they come up with a PVR with expandable capacity (some report the Motorola 6208 using a firewire hard drive) I migh not be able to resist.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

James Hill said:


> That's why I'm saying comparable and not identical.
> 
> James Hill


Then I have to disagree with you. You can't say one is better, when the other one has 8 movie channels, Gol TV, NBA TV, the Outdoor Channel, Golf Channel, TVG Channel, and WAM. If you do not like or want these then yes, the Direct pacakge may be better for you but I watch those movie channels and GOL TV and NBA TV and the Outdoor Channel alot and think it makes the package a good value. I just don't see how the Direct package is necessarily a better package.


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## sbill67 (Dec 16, 2002)

Earl Zuberbelt said:


> E-mail those no good low down scoundrels Charlie Ergen and Jim DeFranco and cancel your service immediately.
> 
> How dare they go live on the air in front of any subscriber and waste their hour!!!! Rant.....Rave..... show your anger to them man!!!!
> You are SO right Earl, these guys are ship-abandoning CRY-BABIES,
> ...


I agree Earl, These ship jumping cry-babies make me sick!! It is these customers that implemented the chargeback rules. The scourge of DBS!!Signed 
Stay with COMCAST Whiners

DISH RULES


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## completelymobile (Jan 10, 2004)

*I agree ... nice to see someone with some business sense!  * 



normang said:


> Hmm... seems to me that it was top 150 and is now top 180, somewhere along the line, you got new channels.. same with other packages they seem to have expanded..
> 
> Still am confused though, why do many of you all want something for nothing?
> 
> ...


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Cool, glad to hear E* added 30 new channels.. anyone have a list of what they are? (Top 150 -> Top 180)

:lol:


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

adam1115 said:


> Cool, glad to hear E* added 30 new channels.. anyone have a list of what they are? (Top 150 -> Top 180)
> 
> :lol:


They really haven't added any. They renamed all the packages because since they originally came out they have added channels. The only recent ones are the Bingo channel and the Reality channel.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Coming soon: the Marko Polo channel exclusive to Dish and AEP.


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