# HDUI: "Your TV is not HD!"



## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

This when used with an SD "Rabbit"-style transmitter. Which obviously is not HD. But the HD content gets sent over just fine. Blocked by this big warning that my TV is not HD (actually it is but the Rabbit is not) all because their new HDUI can't deal with SD in any way, shape or form.

So D* HD content goes out via RCAs in SD fine, but their damned HDUI can't scale via the composite outs and it blocks everything with this giant warning message. Swell.

Anybody got a solution?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Set the receiver to output 480i.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

There are multiple other threads that cover this topic.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Maruuk, Quit Ranting Over HDUI Problems and Use The Search Function to get Answers to your Problems!!!


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Davenlr: You're a GENIUS! I didn't have that box selected in my vid output since I didn't need it for my local set, and it sent SD out fine to the remote set. But by selecting 480i out, it allowed the HDUI to scale to SD perfectly. Awesome, thanks!

Richie: Stop making ill-conceived assumptions about other posters. Obviously, I went to SEARCH first. Got no coherent information. Go stalk somebody else.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Maruuk said:


> Richie: Stop making ill-conceived assumptions about other posters. Obviously, I went to SEARCH first. Got no coherent information. Go stalk somebody else.


While it did take some digging, here's a month old thread about this exact same thing: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=199502


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## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> Set the receiver to output 480i.


Wonderful. I have a box that outputs HD and SD simultaneously -- So D*s fix for that problem is to give me a guide that can't be simultaneously output SD and HD. No problem.
The fix is I should watch SD on my HDTV so my wife can watch SD in the kitchen? Surely the people who are saying just switch to 480i/p can't be serious? BTW, what new features in the HD guide would I care about, anyway? Faster would have been good, but that ain't gonna happen.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

pogo said:


> Wonderful. I have a box that outputs HD and SD simultaneously -- So D*s fix for that problem is to give me a guide that can't be simultaneously output SD and HD. No problem.
> The fix is I should watch SD on my HDTV so my wife can watch SD in the kitchen? Surely the people who are saying just switch to 480i/p can't be serious? BTW, what new features in the HD guide would I care about, anyway? Faster would have been good, but that ain't gonna happen.


It's a HD box so it's primary function is HD. Just because they allowed people to use the SD outputs at the same time does not mean that they support or care about people who decided to use it this way.

There are options out there to get which have been discussed multiple times in multiple threads. At this point you need to just look for a resolution that you want to do whether it's buying a converter, using 480 or getting a receiver for that room.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

pogo said:


> The fix is I should watch SD on my HDTV so my wife can watch SD in the kitchen?


No, the fix is watch SD on your HDTV so your wife in the kitchen can change the channel on whatever you are watching using the guide. If you are watching something in HD, keep watching it in HD. The wife can still watch in SD. If she wants the channel changed, she can yell "Honey, switch to something else". Maybe even join you in the LR, to decide, using the pretty HD guide.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Shades228 said:


> It's a HD box so it's primary function is HD. Just because they allowed people to use the SD outputs at the same time *does not mean that they support or care about* people who decided to use it this way...


In your own words.

They do not support or care about people who have faithfully been letting them hold us up every month for "HD" access fees. This is something akin to a protection racket.

They don't support them, and they don't care. But then they never miss an opportunity to cash the check, do they?

To me it is just one more hurdle to moving content to a DVDR (I have to reset the format of the DVR to 480p). I can put up with one more annoyance, and I will, but this is not the first and I fear not the last in a series of annoyances that underline how arrogant and non-caring this company is regarding the ergonomics of their product.

OK, now that is one way of looking at it, but I think it probably is not the right or realistic way.

From another point of view, I should probably cut them a break this one time because they may not actually have had any choice in the matter. If you look at what they are trying to do from a technical standpoint, the necessary hardware to do it the right and best way just isn't there already, and it needs to be to do it without annoying all of us that sometimes depend on the SD outputs.

The box has a hardware rescale to composite video built in, which is ubiquitous and cheap to do. That would make it just as cheap to do that for the GUI (rescale the HD GUI to SD for the composite ports) except that the existing legacy boxes would need a third hardware rescale process available to do that for the GUI overlay (the second one is the one that feeds the HD ports), and you can only up rev the software in a legacy DVR, and obviously can't up rev the hardware to include a third rescale process unless it is futured for that, which it very likely isn't.

Were the hardware available, it would be cheap and easy for the new GUI to take advantage of that. As a matter of fact, that is not too different from how the old GUI worked; they rescaled the SD GUI overlay on the fly to match the HDMI/component output format (you cant overlay a 480 GUI over a 720 or 1080 signal without rescaling it first), and sent an unconverted GUI overlay to the composite ports. Since both the composite ports and the GUI were both already SD, no rescale there was necessary.

But now that the GUI is HD, it has to be rescaled to fit both the HDMI/component output, and rescaled to SD for overlay on the rescaled composite outputs. Apparently there is no way to use the process that rescales HD video down to SD to do the same thing for the GUI, because it is an overlay and a second video source and the overlay can only happen after the down-rez of the main video to SD.

And that makes sense; if the original video is 720p, and you are using the HD rescale process to convert that to 1080i while simultaneously deinterlacing a 1080p GUI to 1080i for overlay, neither one of those processes can also be available to simultaneously rescale the 1080p GUI to 480 to match the rescaled SD video feeding the composite ports.

IOW, with the main rescale process busy feeding the HDMI/component ports, and the SD rescale only available for the main downscaled SD video, that leaves no rescale process available for the GUI overlay for the SD ports.

This means that the only possible workaround is to make us match the HDMI/component format to the SD port format; if the main format is set to 480 then the rescale that handles the GUI overlay can handle both the HDMI/component outputs and the SD composite outputs because then it is the same rescale process. And of course this also means the inclusion of two other one-frame overlays to use as nag screens when we don't do this.

So, they're off the hook this time in my book; you can't make an omelet without breaking an egg or two, and apparently you can't retrofit an HD DVR that has an SD GUI with a new HD GUI without a certain amount of compromise in the process, either.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

I know it was my words I typed them. I also typed them for a specific reason and that reason is this. If you design a product to be used in a specific manner and people use it in another manner you don't care if it will make something happen in a manner you don't support if it makes your product better for people using it correctly.

I could use some analogy's and examples but then the next 2 pages would be about who's analogy is better or more appropriate.

The bottom line is that DIRECTV doesn't support their equipment being used for multiple TV's and even though you can make it work they don't have to care about inconveniencing people who aren't using their product the way they design it to better the experience for those who do.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Here's what's crazy: I added a check in the 480i box that hadn't been previously checked, went out to the living room and bingo, everything worked great! The HDUI via the SD Rabbit feed was now properly scaled into 480i--made it appropriately blurry--but it was all there just fine, everything worked as per usual, no annoying giant warning blocker. HDUI scaled right into SD perfectly. Problem solved.

The next day, blammo, right back to the warning blocker. So I check on my base set, and somehow the 480i box is now magically UNSET. So I check it again, go out to the living room, but now, no deal, warning blocker again. Checked back on the main TV--the 480i is still set correctly. Huh? Impossible. Worked fine the day before.

So we know from this that it CAN work fine, it just doesn't want to. D* hardware is such a screwed up mess.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Maruuk said:


> Here's what's crazy: I added a check in the 480i box that hadn't been previously checked, went out to the living room and bingo, everything worked great! The HDUI via the SD Rabbit feed was now properly scaled into 480i--made it appropriately blurry--but it was all there just fine, everything worked as per usual, no annoying giant warning blocker. HDUI scaled right into SD perfectly. Problem solved.
> 
> The next day, blammo, right back to the warning blocker. So I check on my base set, and somehow the 480i box is now magically UNSET. So I check it again, go out to the living room, but now, no deal, warning blocker again. Checked back on the main TV--the 480i is still set correctly. Huh? Impossible. Worked fine the day before.
> 
> So we know from this that it CAN work fine, it just doesn't want to. D* hardware is such a screwed up mess.


*Only* 480i can be selected. In order for the HDGUI to display on an SD TV, the resolution must be changed to 480i. The best way to do this is to follow the instructions in the warning when displayed on the SD TV. Just adding 480i to the list of selected resolutions will not accomplish anything when viewing HD programming.

Your other option is to get a component to composite converter.


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## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> No, the fix is watch SD on your HDTV so your wife in the kitchen can change the channel on whatever you are watching using the guide. If you are watching something in HD, keep watching it in HD. The wife can still watch in SD. If she wants the channel changed, she can yell "Honey, switch to something else". Maybe even join you in the LR, to decide, using the pretty HD guide.


 Would that it were that simple, but alas it isn't



Shades228 said:


> If you design a product to be used in a specific manner and people use it in another manner you don't care if it will make something happen in a manner you don't support if it makes your product better for people using it correctly.


 Hmm, designed to simultaneously output video in three different formats, but not expecting anyone to use it that way? Do let me apologize for using D*'s equipment "incorrectly".

I've been with D* since 1997 (BUD user prior to that). Since 1999 I've been combining OTA with DirecTV and distributing it to four bedrooms and the kitchen using digital NTSC modulators. I currently distribute two HR10-250s, an R16, an HR21, a Dishplayer, and a DVD player using two four channel modulators, and two distribution amps which combine the OTA signals with the two modulator outputs I also have a wired IR system that allows me to control any of those boxes from any of the remote TV locations. So, it ain't quite so simple. If you get the idea significant time and money invested in this you're right.

The most puzzling thing about this thread is that none of the responders pointed to me to the sticky about solutions to this problem which is dated two weeks ago. Mea Culpa for not noticing it before. Stewart Sweet reposted one of the solutions, beyond that there were none offered in any thread that I found. Looks like I'll be spending $50 for a component/composite converter. The sad thing is that if it weren't so convoluted an operation to simply change resolutions on the fly I probably wouldn't even have come here. The HR-10s won't output SD and HD simultaneously, but it takes a touch of a button on the remote to switch back and forth.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

pogo said:


> Would that it were that simple, but alas it isn't
> 
> Hmm, designed to simultaneously output video in three different formats, but not expecting anyone to use it that way? Do let me apologize for using D*'s equipment "incorrectly".
> 
> ...


Pressing and holding the Exit button is just one button.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

pogo said:


> Would that it were that simple, but alas it isn't
> 
> Hmm, designed to simultaneously output video in three different formats, but not expecting anyone to use it that way? Do let me apologize for using D*'s equipment "incorrectly".


Apology accepted. (Yes, I know you were being sarcastic.)

D* could have done what the old HR-10s did. But they made it simpler by activating all the ports. That way you didn't have an additional step in setup and confused customers wondering why the output was broken.

Until now, D* condoned using more than one output at once, but it was never officially supported. The function can disappear any day. Just like eSATA.

I agree that the title of the sticky thread describing this is confusing. It should be clearer.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

1.) Why did just adding 480i work fine the first day? According to the above that would be impossible, but I swear, it worked great like that for hours.

2) When the warning blocker comes on, pressing and holding the EXIT button does nothing. Tried it for long periods of time.

3) So checking ONLY the 480i box is one solution?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Maruuk said:


> 1.) Why did just adding 480i work fine the first day? According to the above that would be impossible, but I swear, it worked great like that for hours.
> 
> 2) When the warning blocker comes on, pressing and holding the EXIT button does nothing. Tried it for long periods of time.
> 
> 3) So checking ONLY the 480i box is one solution?


1) You were most likely wathcing SD programming when that worked. Since without 480i checked the receiver upconverts to whatever other resolution is checked, SD programming without 480i checked will trigger the warning message.

2) It should. Never tried it myself, but it's worked for others.

3) Correct.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> The function can disappear any day. Just like eSATA.


eSATA is no longer available?


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> 2) It should. Never tried it myself, but it's worked for others.


It doesn't work most of the time for me either. The "Your TV Is Not HD .." banner stays on the screen and the "BONG BONG BONG BONG .." sound effect repeats despite me pressing and holding the EXIT button. Like a lot of things with the DirecTV DVRs, it doesn't work properly.


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## phoneman06 (Feb 20, 2005)

"NFLnut" said:


> eSATA is no longer available?


Esata still works but it is not supported by Directv and they could shut it off if they wanted to also.


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## phoneman06 (Feb 20, 2005)

"Maruuk" said:


> 2) When the warning blocker comes on, pressing and holding the EXIT button does nothing. Tried it for long periods of time.


This works for me.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

phoneman06 said:


> This works for me.


Works well on all of my units, just holding it down for a few seconds while the big message is on the screen changes it to 480. Hold it down again and it restores the previous HD setting.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Maruuk said:


> 2) When the warning blocker comes on, pressing and holding the EXIT button does nothing. Tried it for long periods of time.


Are you using a DIRECTV remote or a universal?


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Are you using a DIRECTV remote or a universal?


In my case of pressing and holding the exit button, I am using the DirecTV remote that came with the box. And it doesn't work. The full screen "Your TV Is Not HD" banner remains and all I get is the "BONG BONG BONG BONG .." sound effect. Great programming skillz there, DirecTV!


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> In my case of pressing and holding the exit button, I am using the DirecTV remote that came with the box. And it doesn't work. The full screen "Your TV Is Not HD" banner remains and all I get is the "BONG BONG BONG BONG .." sound effect. Great programming skillz there, DirecTV!


Or a bad remote. I just tried it with 3 different DirecTv remotes, and all three worked. All 3 were set to the standard codeset, if that matters.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

I have a standard D* remote, but I am in another room using RF which in my case is intermittent and wanky both in the remote living room location and right in front of the main set/DVR in the bedroom. Lots of non-inputs and repeat inputs on single clicks. Maddening. Some kind of RF interference as IR and my iPad remote work fine. This HR24-500 RF problem is well-documented elsewhere. I have both a standard remote and one of the new self-lit jobs. I thought the new remote might help but nope.

I'll try firing up my iPad remote and using that for the EXIT conversion to 480.


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## pogo (Oct 31, 2007)

DogLover said:


> Pressing and holding the Exit button is just one button.


You are of course correct. When I first tried it didn't seem to work. Seems to work now with all my remotes. I'll probably still plunk for the converter, partly because I want to try it with the TiVos. Watching HD in one room and SD in another simply isn't an option with them. Some day the TiVos will die. They're used now for OTA and a few SD only D* Channels.

BTW, other comments on the suggestions in the sticky. Number three doesn't apply if you have "Native" video on. In this case the format key will only cycle through the formats for the current resolution. Not a real starter anyway. Wouldn't want to have to cycle through the four screen fromats for every checked resolution anyway.


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> Until now, D* condoned using more than one output at once, but it was never officially supported. The function can disappear any day. Just like eSATA.


What the heck? Where's the list of "unofficial" features that may disappear one day?

The HR20 supported simultaneous output from day one. There was no warning message when I plugged my TV in to the device saying that one day this ability might get stripped out. There was no web page which said you can give this a shot, but it's Beta and may not always be there.

It just worked and it worked the right way. I never liked how the HR10 did it.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Considering the analog hole needs to be plugged eventually, this is also in-line with the future.


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> Considering the analog hole needs to be plugged eventually, this is also in-line with the future.


It has nothing to do with that.

Besides, broadcasters were never overly concerned with subscribers recording poor quality low definition copies for their own use. It's the HD copies possible through component video and even HDMI that concern them.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Shades228 said:


> I know it was my words I typed them. I also typed them for a specific reason and that reason is this. If you design a product to be used in a specific manner and people use it in another manner you don't care if it will make something happen in a manner you don't support if it makes your product better for people using it correctly...
> 
> The bottom line is that DIRECTV doesn't support their equipment being used for multiple TV's and even though you can make it work they don't have to care about inconveniencing people who aren't using their product the way they design it to better the experience for those who do.


 Well, thanks for sharing, but I don't think anyone was questioning that you might not have understood what you yourself said. And thanks for rehammering it home, but your "specific reason" for typing those words was also pretty obvious.

And you will note that I had the courtesy to take care not to take you out of context. But there is no harm in AGREEING WITH YOU, is there? Or in co-opting your words to underline a point we both seem to agree with? That is probably of one of the reasons they put a quote button on your post in the first place, and that is the spirit in which it was used. Sue me.

I think we disagree on only one point, and we may even agree on that. No good deed goes unpunished. DTV wanted to do the right thing by giving us a HD GUI. Hurray for them. We all appreciate it. But sometimes making things happen for good has unintended consequences, or means there may be some unavoidable element of compromise, which is probably how this played out.

My feeling is that you should never stop trying to do the right thing just because it might turn out to be problematic, and you should always try to minimize the damage to customers, who in this case are now, some of them, burdened with a clunky workaround that they could live blissfully unaware of in the era of the SD GUI.

I also feel that DTV probably did everything possible to uphold both of those goals, but sometimes doing everything possible still results in irksome changes. We just have to deal with that, but there is no evidence at all that this is based on the customary arrogance they have shown in the past. They may very well have cared deeply about causing this problem, but may also have had no other choice. Presumed innocence is hard to challenge here.

So my approach will be to move on, stop moaning about it, count my blessings, and adapt, which is the same advice I would give were I ever solicited.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

JonW said:


> It has nothing to do with that.
> 
> Besides, broadcasters were never overly concerned with subscribers recording poor quality low definition copies for their own use. It's the HD copies possible through component video and even HDMI that concern them.


It may have nothing directly to do with it, but it is still very much "in line" with it as the poster said, and is part of a host of similar issues facing all of us.

And speaking as a Broadcaster (but then not for all broadcasters) most of us have always been concerned that customers get the best quality available even if they were shooting themselves in the foot by recording it themselves in VHS SLP. That folks don't seem to care about preserving the quality we give them is much more irksome to us. We don't care if you record it in HD or distribute it in HD to a friend or archive it in HD for your library. It's the production houses that care about licensing and ownership, not us. Just don't pirate it and sell it.

After all, we are the keepers of the highest quality, and the only place you can get the highest quality other than buying it on Blu-Ray (and have you seen what they are asking for a year of _Fringe_ in hard copy these days?) We used to be the only place to get content, and our industry has to adapt to the fact that you can get content anywhere, so one of the things we are holding on to, at least for the next few years, is that no one else can give you the PQ that you can get OTA.

So we do indeed care that you get HD in the highest quality, and we want to make it convenient for you to have access to it, which means time-shifting, archiving, and sharing it. That is one way for us to remain relevant. We just don't have a lot of control over the archiving and sharing aspects of it. The last thing we want to do is piss off customers by providing them a shoddy product. I'm not sure that applies to _The Jersey Shore,_ however.

Roku is great. Netflix is great. Hulu is great. But even if you are wealthy enough to be able to afford really good internet and lucky enough to have really good internet available in your area, the quality just is not there, and it goes down from there if its a shared pipe or if your MB connection or GB ceiling is not a high number. So exclusively high quality is one of the things we hang our hats on.

So please don't paint Broadcasters with that brush; over-regulating and rationing content is the object lesson from the record industry that we will hopefully learn from, and we certainly won't be on board for doing that by down-rezzing the quality of the content.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

TomCat said:


> and we certainly won't be on board for doing that by down-rezzing the quality of the content.


Wish you ran our market. So many subchannels the primary HD channel looks like crap. PBS downrezzing from 1080i to 720p and cramming on 3 subchannels. I get much better quality watching the networks via C band distribution...Except for FOX, which apparently feels the need to scramble theirs.


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## Art7220 (Feb 4, 2004)

Yeah, I also get the "Your TV or the cables are not HD" message when using a VCR to copy recorded DVR material from my parents' HR24. Exiting out of the msg. then holding EXIT does the trick.

Now if there's a way to change the Gray Bars color on the top and bottom when in letterbox mode...


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## kirchnrd (Jan 5, 2012)

"Art7220" said:


> Yeah, I also get the "Your TV or the cables are not HD" message when using a VCR to copy recorded DVR material from my parents' HR24. Exiting out of the msg. then holding EXIT does the trick.
> 
> Now if there's a way to change the Gray Bars color on the top and bottom when in letterbox mode...


Go to Settings, HDTV, Video, and you can change the color.


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> It's a HD box so it's primary function is HD. Just because they allowed people to use the SD outputs at the same time does not mean that they support or care about people who decided to use it this way.
> 
> There are options out there to get which have been discussed multiple times in multiple threads. At this point you need to just look for a resolution that you want to do whether it's buying a converter, using 480 or getting a receiver for that room.


They did support it in a way by going to the effort of adding the "Exit" method of switching back and forth. So they do understand that a lot of people are using SD devices with the HD STBs and are trying to enhance their experience by making it as painless as possible for people to go on using them as they always have. When I want to record I hold down "Exit" until it switches to SD, make my recording and then "Exit to switch back to my HD setting. Not too bad.


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

TomCat said:


> So please don't paint Broadcasters with that brush; over-regulating and rationing content is the object lesson from the record industry that we will hopefully learn from, and we certainly won't be on board for doing that by down-rezzing the quality of the content.


Yes, obviously the content creators are the party primarily interested in protecting the value of their work ... but they apparently have enough leverage to force those of you downstream to help them protect it. If equipment manufacturers and broadcasters/deliverers had refused to support initiatives such as HDCP, DRM, and the broadcast "flag" - I wonder how things would have shaken out.

But my point remains the same, their focus is not on low-quality links like SD or composite. That's not what they mean when they refer to closing the "analog hole".


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

I've tried 3 different remotes and the iPad remote and the EXIT hold down either does nothing or forces a mode change into a live channel. Mostly it does nothing. It certainly doesn't change resolution output.

In short bursts the HDUI is on screen, downscaled nicely to SD and working like it should so it CAN do the job fine, but the frickin warning blocker suddenly kicks in and wrecks everything. Way to go D*, another brilliant execution choked away by the geniuses in R&D. "Let's stick a huge warning sign on screen over the perfectly good downscaled HDUI so the user can't watch anything!" Forrest Gump lives.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Maruuk said:


> I've tried 3 different remotes and the iPad remote and the EXIT hold down either does nothing or forces a mode change into a live channel. Mostly it does nothing. It certainly doesn't change resolution output.
> 
> In short bursts the HDUI is on screen, downscaled nicely to SD and working like it should so it CAN do the job fine, but the frickin warning blocker suddenly kicks in and wrecks everything. Way to go D*, another brilliant execution choked away by the geniuses in R&D. "Let's stick a huge warning sign on screen over the perfectly good downscaled HDUI so the user can't watch anything!" Forrest Gump lives.


Holding exit while in a recording will drop it out of the recording. You need to press and hold exit while the banner is up. Also make sure Native is off.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

I definitely held EXIT while the banner was up, and I thought NATIVE was off but I'll have to check that again. Thanks for the heads up!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Maruuk said:


> I've tried 3 different remotes and the iPad remote and the EXIT hold down either does nothing or forces a mode change into a live channel. Mostly it does nothing. It certainly doesn't change resolution output.
> 
> In short bursts the HDUI is on screen, downscaled nicely to SD and working like it should so it CAN do the job fine, but the frickin warning blocker suddenly kicks in and wrecks everything. Way to go D*, another brilliant execution choked away by the geniuses in R&D. "Let's stick a huge warning sign on screen over the perfectly good downscaled HDUI so the user can't watch anything!" Forrest Gump lives.


Something's not adding up here. First of all I'm assuming we're using the DIRECTV remotes, not a third party. I know this works, we just have to figure out why it's not working for you. If you're seeing the HDUI downsampled, are you already set to 480i? Maybe that's the issue.


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## Vin (Mar 29, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Something's not adding up here. First of all I'm assuming we're using the DIRECTV remotes, not a third party. I know this works, we just have to figure out why it's not working for you. If you're seeing the HDUI downsampled, are you already set to 480i? Maybe that's the issue.


Are third party remotes known to be a problem with this feature? The reason I ask is I'm using a URC-8820 and holding down the Exit button works as well as it does with the DirecTV remote on my HR21-100.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

I haven't heard of a specific issue for 3rd party remotes but it is possible that third party remotes don't have the exact specific behavior of a long press as it wasn't used prior. Some remotes could stop sending the IR signal after the initial "command" was sent rather than repeating.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

All my remotes are stock D* units, including the new backlit one I ordered thinking it might solve some issues. It didn't.

Now I understand the warning blocker coming on if the HDUI is incapable of downscaling based on my current settings. But there it is, looking good in downscaled SD and running fine, and then suddenly the %&$%$#@ blocker pops on and ruins the party.

I'll try that "turn off NATIVE" thing today, maybe that's the problem. I don't mind switching back and forth between HD and SD, as long as it's just a button push or two. Though some guys have said they had to turn their units on and off, or worse.

If I can't fix it I'll just suck it up and get the remote receiver deal.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Was running it tonight, using the FF and some :30 skip the HDUI comes on (in SD of course), looking fine, no warning. Used it for about 10 minutes then finally the warning blocker comes on out of the blue telling me that it can't do what it's been doing for 10 minutes.

D*. What can't they get wrong?


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

UPDATE: Taking the DVR out of "Native" did nothing. Same old.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Maruuk said:


> UPDATE: Taking the DVR out of "Native" did nothing. Same old.


After you take it out of NATIVE, you need to cycle through the format options with the format key until you get to the one you want.


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## Gatorgogo (Dec 10, 2007)

I have one D* receiver that I have connected a HDTV using the HDMI cable, and 2 SD TV's in 2 different rooms using the SD outputs on the D* receiver. One of the rooms is about 75 feet away from the D* box and I am using a RF Modulator to jump on the existing COAX cable to this spot. I bet there are lots of people that have done this trick. I considered running HD cable to this spot, but I don't think running 75' HDMI or Component video cable is recommended (too long a distance).

It was working fine until this new HD Guide enhancement came out. It's just an annoance to have to keep switching the TV resolutions back/forth. So, I just spent $50
on a Component to Composite Converter so that I will make the D* guide do what it used to do. 

BTW, I for one have not noticed any significant change in the HD Guide from the old -- except the color scheme. Because I use an RF remote - it's always a bit flacky anyway...


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks Dave, that worked.


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## BJB (Oct 8, 2007)

Gatorgogo said:


> I have one D* receiver that I have connected a HDTV using the HDMI cable, and 2 SD TV's in 2 different rooms using the SD outputs on the D* receiver. One of the rooms is about 75 feet away from the D* box and I am using a RF Modulator to jump on the existing COAX cable to this spot. I bet there are lots of people that have done this trick. I considered running HD cable to this spot, but I don't think running 75' HDMI or Component video cable is recommended (too long a distance).
> 
> It was working fine until this new HD Guide enhancement came out. It's just an annoance to have to keep switching the TV resolutions back/forth. So, I just spent $50
> on a Component to Composite Converter so that I will make the D* guide do what it used to do.


Gatorgogo,
I was wondering if the $50 component to composite converter you used had any adjustment for aspect ratio. I have a similar setup and converter as you, and, with the HDR set for 16X9 (of course for the HDMI out), the component out feeds a 16X9 signal to the converter which then displays a picture on a 4x3 set that is not letterboxed. But it should be letterboxed to maintain the correct vertical aspect ratio.

Of course having aspect control on an inexpensive converter is asking a lot. I am just wondering if yours exhibits the same behavior?

Thanks,
BJB


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## Gatorgogo (Dec 10, 2007)

I just got the Component to Composite Converter in the mail today and connected it up to the Component outputs on the D* HD receiver. The picture on the SD TV looks the same as the original SD outputs from the D* receiver. It seems to have the right aspect ratio on the SD TV. The HD resolution is still at the 1080i output and looks sharp on the HDTV. And yes, when I press the Guide Button, I don't see the warning message on the SD TV's anymore telling me to press the Exit Button. So for the price of a $50 converter, I'm back where I was before the new HD Guide was installed by D*... Yea...


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## BJB (Oct 8, 2007)

Gatorgogo said:


> I just got the Component to Composite Converter in the mail today and connected it up to the Component outputs on the D* HD receiver. The picture on the SD TV looks the same as the original SD outputs from the D* receiver. It seems to have the right aspect ratio on the SD TV. The HD resolution is still at the 1080i output and looks sharp on the HDTV. And yes, when I press the Guide Button, I don't see the warning message on the SD TV's anymore telling me to press the Exit Button. So for the price of a $50 converter, I'm back where I was before the new HD Guide was installed by D*... Yea...


Could you share what brand you purchased? I am definitely not seeing the same aspect ratio.
Thanks,
BJB


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## MISpat (Apr 22, 2009)

BJB said:


> Gatorgogo,
> I was wondering if the $50 component to composite converter you used had any adjustment for aspect ratio. I have a similar setup and converter as you, and, with the HDR set for 16X9 (of course for the HDMI out), the component out feeds a 16X9 signal to the converter which then displays a picture on a 4x3 set that is not letterboxed. But it should be letterboxed to maintain the correct vertical aspect ratio.
> 
> Of course having aspect control on an inexpensive converter is asking a lot. I am just wondering if yours exhibits the same behavior?


BJB, just use the aspect ratio setting in the D* box itself. One of the main reasons why these converters were so useful prior to this D* HDGUI was to be able to maintain the full 16:9 aspect ratio when recording to a DVD recorder from a cable box. Every cable box I ever experimented with automatically letterboxes widescreen content when output via s-video or composite connectors. So the component to composite converters maintain the original aspect ratio for you.


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## Gatorgogo (Dec 10, 2007)

The Component to Composit Converter is probably the device that is making the right aspect ratio for the SD TV's. That's available at Monoprice..

Product Number 7114 Component (YpbPr) to Composite Converter 

The RF Modulator puts the composite Video/Sound on coax cable I have in the house...it's available on Ebay or Amazon among others: RCA RF Modulator (Model CRF910) 

Hope this helps...


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## BJB (Oct 8, 2007)

Gatorgogo and MISpat, thanks for the input!

Since monoprice was out of stock I ended up buying one from Sewell. The units looks identical (I assumed various companies re-label the same box). MISpat, I did have my box set to 16X9 but my converted output is definitely not letterboxed. It is vertically stretched to fit the 4X3 SD screen. My HDMI output is appropriately 16X9 so I assume the component is feeding 16X9 to the converter.

I have the HD settings at "Native" and "Original format" if that might matter. 

It drives me nuts because I used to use my old H-10 this way all the time and as you said, I would get nice letterboxed SD for my locals out of the composite.

I'll have to try the monoprice piece when it becomes available.

Thanks,
BJB


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## BJB (Oct 8, 2007)

Gatorgogo said:


> The Component to Composit Converter is probably the device that is making the right aspect ratio for the SD TV's. That's available at Monoprice..
> 
> Product Number 7114 Component (YpbPr) to Composite Converter
> 
> ...


Garorgogo,
Would you be so kind as to share your satellite box format settings for the component to composite? I checked with monoprice and they think their 7114 box would also stretch a 16X9 input vertically to 4x3 and not letterbox just like the re-label I have.

Thanks again, would love to get this working the way it used to! 
BJB


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## rwmair (Nov 16, 2006)

BJB said:


> Garorgogo,
> Would you be so kind as to share your satellite box format settings for the component to composite? I checked with monoprice and they think their 7114 box would also stretch a 16X9 input vertically to 4x3 and not letterbox just like the re-label I have.
> 
> Thanks again, would love to get this working the way it used to!
> BJB


I too have the Monoprice Component to Composite converter, which then feeds an RF modulator (that used to take the Composite signal direct from the receiver). My receiver is a HR23 - both the composite output, and now the component-to-composite converted output is vertically stretched to fill 4:3 TV's elsewhere in my house.

I had played with the format settings ad-nauseum, and was unable to ever get the correct aspect ratio on the SD TV's. (Particularly annoying as I have seen Echostar receivers that not only do this, but let you modify the SD output of HD pictures - crop, stretch, letterbox, etc - regardless of what the HD output is doing in the HDMI-connected main HDTV!!)

I had figured there was no way to get the correct aspect ratio from SD output (and now component-to-composite converted output) from a HRxx box. Maybe tuning to the SD equivalent of the HD channel might work if watching live TV - and you let the 4:3 picture stretch to fill 16:9 on the HDTV - but we're usually watching recorded shows in this mode.


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## BJB (Oct 8, 2007)

rwmair said:


> I had figured there was no way to get the correct aspect ratio from SD output (and now component-to-composite converted output) from a HRxx box. Maybe tuning to the SD equivalent of the HD channel might work if watching live TV - and you let the 4:3 picture stretch to fill 16:9 on the HDTV - but we're usually watching recorded shows in this mode.


rwmair,
I hear you. Have the issue with an HR-24 here and pretty experienced with aspect ratios, resolutions, etc. At first I thought it was because I was using a different brand converter (even though they all look the same, just re-branded). And especially since some say they have gotten the correct aspect ratio with this converter. But I guess not.

I even tried an S-video to composite converter for the S-video converter output on the converter just to see if it treated that output differently. No such luck.

Pretty frustrating. The SD channel idea was interesting but unfortunately as you mentioned, that only helps if you are watching something live. And then you'll have all of those SD channels listed on the HD TV also.

Perhaps someone else has a solution that does provide the correct aspect ratio. I am surprised there no mention of this issue in the "FAQ" on this subject, so I assumed it was just my setup for some reason.

Hopefully D* will hear the complaints and re-think this and perhaps provide a fix in a future update.

BJB


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