# HD Extra pack will cost EVERYONE? No Grandfathering?



## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11631960#post11631960

A E-mail from D* to me...
Dear Mr. xxxxxxx

Thank you for writing us. It's always a pleasure to hear from one of our new customers. Let me take this opportunity to thank you for your choosing DIRECTV. I understand that HD programming is important to you and we are committed to bring you the best HD programming. I understand that you are concerned about the new package called DIRECTV HD Extra Pack. I'd be glad to provide you additional information on your concern.

Beginning Sept 19, an extra new premium service will be available called DIRECTV HD Extra Pack. We offer this package for unique HD channels that don't have an SD simulcast. We have good news for all of our customers who have HD programming. It's a free preview from Sept 19 until Dec 15, 2007. After that, it costs $4.99 per month. But let me provide additional information about the charges. Our HD Access Fee of $9.99 is like a key that unlocks HD content for you, but you need to subscribe to the programming content which is the HD Extra Pack. We created this package as an optional add-on package due to the high costs to deliver HD programming. High definition is some of the most expensive programming we carry due to what we pay to distribute it and the bandwidth we use to deliver it. Rest assured that we'll deliver HD programs for a very reasonable price because we're also investing in new satellites to bring you more HD channels than any other providers.

Because we value your comments and suggestions, I also forwarded your email to our DIRECT Management. Thank you very much for taking time to let us know how you feel and for giving us a chance to respond to your concerns.

Sincerely,

Allan M.
Employee ID xxxxxxx
DIRECTV Customer Service


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## NoNameEMT (Dec 13, 2006)

Not surprising, I'll just drop a mirrored receiver that's no longer being used to recover the albeit minimal cost.


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## tpm1999 (Sep 5, 2006)

Uh Oh...Spagetteos!!!

Guess we are grandfathered...for ~3 months.

Did anyone think Directv was going to be nice to those of us waiting for more HD for 2 years?


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## jimmyv2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

is directv taking after CRAPCAST and raising the rates more than once a year. 
I may drop the last generation 1 Rca box i have soon.


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## oudabashian (Aug 19, 2007)

On the D* website, it states that if you have the Premier package and HD access, you will automatically get ALL the new HD at NO additional cost. Since the Premier covers all the simulcast HD and the HD Access covers all the standalone HD.


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

I'm just going to drop DirecTV all together. Screw them. 

Besides, I cannot get a qualified installer to align my dish properly, so why continue with DirecTV when it's obvious they don't give a damn about my situation. 

BTW, I just tried to schedule a seventh service call to fix my ongoing dish alignment problems, and no dice. D* refuses to send anybody to align the dish. *******s. I'm so sick to death of all this crap they're causing me. So, in December, I plan to cancel my service after about 9 years of service.


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## concorde1 (May 26, 2007)

Guitar Hero said:


> I'm just going to drop DirecTV all together. Screw them.
> 
> Besides, I cannot get a qualified installer to align my dish properly, so why continue with DirecTV when it's obvious they don't give a damn about my situation.
> 
> BTW, I just tried to schedule a seventh service call to fix my ongoing dish alignment problems, and no dice. D* refuses to send anybody to align the dish. *******s. I'm so sick to death of all this crap they're causing me. So, in December, I plan to cancel my service after about 9 years of service.


Where is your dish located. Can you easily get to it?


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

concorde1 said:


> Where is your dish located. Can you easily get to it?


It's up to high for me to get to. If it wasn't, this alignment issue wouldn't exist. I'd take care of it myself. But, since I'm disabled and in a wheelchair, it's impossible for me to do anything.


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

Doesnt sound like the new HD channles are gonna cost us.....because that email said the extra cost is for HD channels that dont also have an SD. So basically all the new HD channels that are coming online also have SD's. I think they are talking about channles like HDnet, etc in the upper 70's. Well....i never watch those to they can take their 4.99 for those channels and shove it.


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## turbovr6 (May 17, 2007)

oudabashian said:


> On the D* website, it states that if you have the Premier package and HD access, you will automatically get ALL the new HD at NO additional cost. Since the Premier covers all the simulcast HD and the HD Access covers all the standalone HD.


you have a link for that? I can't find it. I would like to have some "ammo" if they tell me they want another $5.00 on top of all the other stuff I pay for. (Primier, HD, and ST with superfan).


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## concorde1 (May 26, 2007)

Guitar Hero said:


> It's up to high for me to get to. If it wasn't, this alignment issue wouldn't exist. I'd take care of it myself. But, since I'm disabled and in a wheelchair, it's impossible for me to do anything.


Good Luck then..


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

concorde1 said:


> Good Luck then..


Thanks, but it's not luck I need. Just somebody who isn't a lazy moron to align my dish properly.


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## oudabashian (Aug 19, 2007)

turbovr6 said:


> you have a link for that? I can't find it. I would like to have some "ammo" if they tell me they want another $5.00 on top of all the other stuff I pay for. (Primier, HD, and ST with superfan).


It is answered in their FAQ:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4360048

Read 07 and 09


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Guitar Hero said:


> I'm just going to drop DirecTV all together. Screw them.


Because 6 OPTIONAL channels will cost you $4.99/month to view? Just don't get the XTRA pack if you think the $4.99 is too much.

Besides, if the documents I saw were correct, the price will not go up if you already have HD services now. I'm gonna wait until we have more information before I worry about the sky falling.


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## tpayne105 (Aug 29, 2006)

Yet again, more confusion....this needs to be taken care of in a CLEAR ENGLISH LANGUAGE


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## jeffman (Sep 9, 2007)

Guitar Hero said:


> Besides, I cannot get a qualified installer to align my dish properly,


Man...fustrating GH. I live in socal, if you need a referal for a professional installer(I'm in the 818), let me know. It wont be free, but they'll get it.


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## tsmithfd (Jan 8, 2007)

Guitar Hero said:


> It's up to high for me to get to. If it wasn't, this alignment issue wouldn't exist. I'd take care of it myself. But, since I'm disabled and in a wheelchair, it's impossible for me to do anything.


You would think as long as you have been with D* that they would give you better service than that. I have been with them since 2000 and every time I call them they are great!

I actually called them back in March and told them I thinking of switching to Time Warner Cable and they sent me a new dish, with 2 new HR20-700.

You might want to try to talk to someone in retention they might be more willing to help you with your dish problems.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

oudabashian said:


> It is answered in their FAQ:
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4360048
> 
> Read 07 and 09


Unless I missed something it doesnt say anything about getting premier and not having to pay the extra for the others. It says you get all of the basic channels and the HD version also. It also says you get the premiums, which is HBO, Starz, ect. The Hd channels with no SD version from how I understand it will still cost extra. Unless they do Grandfather us in


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

tsmithfd said:


> You would think as long as you have been with D* that they would give you better service than that. I have been with them since 2000 and every time I call them they are great!
> 
> I actually called them back in March and told them I thinking of switching to Time Warner Cable and they sent me a new dish, with 2 new HR20-700.
> 
> You might want to try to talk to someone in retention they might be more willing to help you with your dish problems.


Yeah, that's what I did. I guess it's the weekend crew who can't offer me much. So, I'm going to wait for the weekday crew.

I'm not going to cancel service just yet. But, if I have to pay more for the extra HD channels, and I don't have my dish aligned properly, for FREE, then yes, I'll drop them like I dropped third period geometry.


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## oudabashian (Aug 19, 2007)

msmith198025 said:


> Unless I missed something it doesnt say anything about getting premier and not having to pay the extra for the others. It says you get all of the basic channels and the HD version also. It also says you get the premiums, which is HBO, Starz, ect. The Hd channels with no SD version from how I understand it will still cost extra. Unless they do Grandfather us in


My post was that IF you have Premier AND HD Access already, then there is NO extra cost. Since the Premier is covering the cost of all simulcasts and HD access is covering all standalone. Read both 07 AND 09.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

EDITED TO ADD AFTER POSTING: Re-read first post and realized the e-amil wasn't sent to cnmsales, but the nature of the questions would still apply. I have no knowledge of the poster from AVS Forum, so cannot draw any conclusions as to how long they may have been a D* HD customer.



cnmsales said:


> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11631960#post11631960
> 
> A E-mail from D* to me...
> Dear Mr. xxxxxxx
> ...


First of all, the canned responses sent out by the e-mail wonks are notorious for being useless until there are several follow-ups getting them to understand the situation and not just firing off a pre-written e-mail that someone THINKS addresses the issue.

The first thing that caught my eye in this e-mail is the bolded portion. cnmsales, I've seen you for a long while on the board, and don't right now have an idea of how long you've actually been with D*, but I thought it had been quite a while. So I don't really think "New Customer" actually applies to you?

What we've read until now is that those that have the HD Access package already (as of some recent date, or D10 light up date or something) will be grandfathered and receive all the HD with an SD counterpart as well as the HD Extra Pack channels without paying the extra $4.99. New customers, and new HD customers that may have been SD customers before, are the ones who will immediately be paying the $4.99 for HD Extra. That's the way I understood it anyway.

The "Free Preview" bit is news to me. If that implies that we (legacy HD customers) are only grandfathered until December 15th, I hadn't heard that before.

As to the accuracy of the posted e-mail, the fact they immediately qualify it with the "New Customer" line makes me wonder if the content is really meant to apply to "Legacy HD Customers".


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

Jluc i saw the same thing and actually mentioned it in chat. I agree it looks like it might be in refrence to a NEW CUSTOMER. I just posted it here because it was found on the AVS forum. Just sharing found info.


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## jganson (Jan 30, 2007)

Guitar Hero said:


> But, if I have to pay more for the extra HD channels, and I don't have my dish aligned properly, for FREE, then yes, I'll drop them like I dropped third period geometry.


What am I missing here? I understand wanting your dish aligned properly, for free. But you want "extra [NEW and previously unavailable] HD channels" for free? I don't get that. DirecTV is spending millions to get new satellites up in space to provide boatloads more HD than you have ever had, and than anyone else offers, and that should be free?  I'm happy to pay the $5, if I have to. It won't break the bank and it's a drop in the bucket compared to what I have into my home theater system.


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## gregchak (Jan 8, 2007)

So does this mean for all the HD's we'll be paying 9.99 and then another 4.99 for the non-simulcasts?


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Beginning the 19th? So does that make that the date when we get the new HD Channels or just the Extra Package


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

?????? FAQ 11


> The number of HD simulcast channels that are available is based on your base package. These networks are available with the HD Access fee. To see all of the new channels, you must have the newest HD receivers (Model H20, HR20, H21 or HR21) and HD Access and subscribe to *PREMIER* package. In addition, professional and collegiate sports subscriptions may offer HD programming for an additional charge. HD PPV events and movies are also available separately.


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

jganson said:


> What am I missing here? I understand wanting your dish aligned properly, for free. But you want "extra [NEW and previously unavailable] HD channels" for free? I don't get that. DirecTV is spending millions to get new satellites up in space to provide boatloads more HD than you have ever had, and than anyone else offers, and that should be free?  I'm happy to pay the $5, if I have to. It won't break the bank and it's a drop in the bucket compared to what I have into my home theater system.


You damn right I want the new HD channels for free! It's the benefit of being a long time (+9 years) customer of D*.


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## PR Buick (Oct 12, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> ?????? FAQ 11


Makes sense to me. If I don't normally receive a channel with my total choice + HD DVR package, I don't expect to suddenly get it when simulcast in HD.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Well I for one won't pay extra for those few channels.. but I would love a HD pack that was those plus the HD movie channels, that would be worth a few bucks


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

houskamp said:


> Well I for one won't pay extra for those few channels.. but I would love a HD pack that was those plus the HD movie channels, that would be worth a few bucks


You mean, HBO, STARZ, SHOWTIME, etc. HD channels?

Amen to that. That way, I could drop HBO and SHOWTIME now and save some greenbacks.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Guitar Hero said:


> You mean, HBO, STARZ, SHOWTIME, etc. HD channels?
> 
> Amen to that. That way, I could drop HBO and SHOWTIME now and save some greenbacks.


yep, just the HD versions of those channels.. That I would pay for!!


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## wmj5 (Aug 26, 2007)

I have been with directv 12 yrs. but I won't pay another $5.00 for hd. I wonder if I drop the hd package will that be breaking my commitment? does anyone know?


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## nbajam (Jul 10, 2007)

jganson said:


> What am I missing here? I understand wanting your dish aligned properly, for free. But you want "extra [NEW and previously unavailable] HD channels" for free? I don't get that. DirecTV is spending millions to get new satellites up in space to provide boatloads more HD than you have ever had, and than anyone else offers, and that should be free?  I'm happy to pay the $5, if I have to. It won't break the bank and it's a drop in the bucket compared to what I have into my home theater system.


Except they're taking channels that were previously included in the HD Access Fee like HD Net, HD Movies, and Universal HD and making them an extra cost above what they are now. These are NOT NEW CHANNELS. They are taking channels away and making you pay more for what you have now. That's a move straight out of cable's playbook and is what people are upset about, as well they should be, especially after repeated promises of NO PRICE INCREASES.


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

You can't just "drop" the HD package. If you have a HD reveiever then you pay the HD access fee. No if's and's or but's about it.


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## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

Riddle me this batman? What do D and all the cable providers gouge us for after Feb when all non digital transmissions stop? Before long it will be nothing but HD. 

This is NRE "Ramping up money" the way I see it.

Don't feel to bad for D. with 20mil subs on an average of $65.00/mo. D could launch a new 200 million dollar sat every month and still have a billion in the bank.


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## Rockl (Jul 25, 2007)

wmj5 said:


> I have been with directv 12 yrs. but I won't pay another $5.00 for hd. I wonder if I drop the hd package will that be breaking my commitment? does anyone know?


I beleive that the commitment requires that you only maintain the $10.99 HD Access package and the DVR package if you have a leased HR20. The DVR charge doesn't apply if you purchased a lifetime Tivo/DVR subscription back when it was initially offered. I'm not sure how they will contractually address any additional charges for HD content since the charges are not defined in the agreement.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Hmmm ... if this is worth $5, why have I been paying $10. Do I get a rebate?


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

You know, on second thought, I'd pay $5 for HDNet movies. Better movies than HBO and correct aspect ratio. So whatever....and I can drop that third box that I never really use if it saves money.


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> Hmmm ... if this is worth $5, why have I been paying $10. Do I get a rebate?


Funny. They're actually shuffling around a couple of the channels we use to pay 10 for, e.g. TNT HD, Disc HD Theater, ESPN HD, ESPN 2 HD and rolling those into the rest of the HD Access Tier.

From what I understand it's going to be HD Net, HD Net Movies, UHD, MGM HD (new), Smithsonian HD (new) that will be in the new Extra Tier. I don't know if I left anything out.

Isn't this what TWC does with their HD packages? I seem to recall HD Net being extra.

If I get charged extra for these channels, I will drop them. There will be enough to watch anyway.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

houskamp said:


> yep, just the HD versions of those channels.. That I would pay for!!


What makes you think it's be cheaper? I'm glad they didn't break them out. I was afraid they'd say that HBO SD was going down in price to $10, but HBO HD was now going to be $15.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> What makes you think it's be cheaper? I'm glad they didn't break them out. I was afraid they'd say that HBO SD was going down in price to $10, but HBO HD was now going to be $15.


naa.. leave the old packages alone.. just offer a new one to get just the hd versions..


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Does HDnet charge providers a lot? I don't believe Comcast currently carries HDnet because they can't settle on a contract.

I wonder if this has anything to do with D* adding this tier. I'll probably pay the $5, but I really wish they'd just add it to the HD+DVR package and be done with it. I'd upgrade to that if they would allow you to get "all HD" excluding premiums.

I do find it funny that there is not mention of HDnet, etc on the new D* webpages describing what HDTV is in the packages.


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## curlyjive (Jun 13, 2007)

Is any of this fact, or just speculation at this point? I don't see anything on D*'s website about this. 

IF it IS true, will we NOT get the new channels until we agree to pay the extra $5....In other words, could they turn on the new channels on the 19th and then we would not get them until we agree to pay an extra $5 that we haven't officially be told about?????


That seems REALLY shady if true.


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## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> Hmmm ... if this is worth $5, why have I been paying $10. Do I get a rebate?


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TY this is what i have been saying.


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## superfan1 (Sep 12, 2007)

Lets be real here.. The price will keep going up everytime they add channels.. 10$, 15$, 20$ Just wait untill all the channels are in HD I can only imagine what the price will be when this happens.... ..

Hopefully more people start to care more about this and refuse to pay.. Its one way to keep the price from going up....


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

What did you expect when they went to 2 year contracts?

Locking you in for 2 years makes it so they don't have to worry about people switching to cable when they raise their rates to cover their "increased costs" of carrying HD.

The next shoe to fall: they'll drop OTA HD so that you have to pay them even for local signals.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

wavemaster said:


> Don't feel to bad for D. with 20mil subs on an average of $65.00/mo. D could launch a new 200 million dollar sat every month and still have a billion in the bank.


Yeah, assuming they stopped paying content providers, employees, installers and started charging for all the installations and free equipment. If they did that, sure they could bank all the money. But they'd have to bank it in Rio.


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## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> Yeah, assuming they stopped paying content providers, employees, installers and started charging for all the installations and free equipment. If they did that, sure they could bank all the money. But they'd have to bank it in Rio.


No I figured they would pay that with the billion plus that is left over.

20mil x 65 = One Billion 300 million PER MONTH.

Last I heard they were up un the sub count as well.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

"We have good news for all of our customers who have HD programming. It’s a free preview from Sept 19 until Dec 15, 2007. After that, it costs $4.99 per month."

Newspeak. "Choco rations going up."


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

wavemaster said:


> No I figured they would pay that with the billion plus that is left over.
> 
> 20mil x 65 = One Billion 300 million PER MONTH.
> 
> Last I heard they were up un the sub count as well.


You have no idea how much they pay providers, do you? ESPN alone is several dollars per customer. "A million here and a million there and pretty soon it adds up to real money."


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## superfan1 (Sep 12, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> "We have good news for all of our customers who have HD programming. It's a free preview from Sept 19 until Dec 15, 2007. After that, it costs $4.99 per month."
> 
> Newspeak. "Choco rations going up."


Thats won hell of an X-MAS gift from Directv PAY US MORE right before xmas...


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## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> You have no idea how much they pay providers, do you? ESPN alone is several dollars per customer. "A million here and a million there and pretty soon it adds up to real money."


Sure, they pay the same as cable.

No a single foot of cable owned or maintained in the country.
No "franchise fees" to all the towns.
D themselves don't own a single van (those are private contracting companies)
etc. etc. etc.

I guess you totally missed my point.

YES it costs MILLIONS for programming.

Do you know how many MILLIONS there are in a BILLION Mr. Wizzard?


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

superfan1 said:


> Thats won hell of an X-MAS gift from Directv PAY US MORE right before xmas...


Yeah, you're right. They're going to going to have to reconsider this because I don't many people want to pay $15 to get everything. The first $10 is a stretch but they will be bringing the HD versions of people's favorite channels. That other tier though...most will live without..easily.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Annoying question:

What happens to folks with HR10-250's with this programming shuffle? 

D* has promised that HD TiVo owners will continue to receive HD channels. Presumably the ones they currently get. Since they can only get the Mpeg2 channels delivered from the Spaceway sats, is D* going to shuffle all these around? Are those owners going to pay $5 or $10, or both? Are they just going to get cut off from HD entirely as everything moves over to D10 & D11? This is getting sticky.


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## curlyjive (Jun 13, 2007)

So it looks like if you have UHD and HDNET Movies, you would lose those if you don't pay the $5, since those don't have an SD Channel? WHAT A LOAD! Those are the only two decent HD channels we get now.....and they want us to PAY MORE for them? That feels worse than asking for more $$ for the newer channels


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## jautor (Jul 28, 2006)

wavemaster said:


> Sure, they pay the same as cable.
> 
> No a single foot of cable owned or maintained in the country.
> No "franchise fees" to all the towns.
> ...


Um, are you forgetting about those 11 or so van-sized objects 22 thousand miles above us? Those aren't exactly free to build, put up there, or operate...

I'm not happy about prices going up either, but I do think D* is going to be in the driver's seat for a while. Especially for those of us not in a FIOS area.

Jeff


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## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

jautor said:


> Um, are you forgetting about those 11 or so van-sized objects 22 thousand miles above us? Those aren't exactly free to build, put up there, or operate...
> 
> I'm not happy about prices going up either, but I do think D* is going to be in the driver's seat for a while. Especially for those of us not in a FIOS area.
> 
> Jeff


The whole DTV is poor started way above this.

I said don't feel bad about them launching a new bird at 200mil. They could actually launch a new one every month of the year and still have a billion left over to play with.

Hey, I send D over 150/mo. So I am not complaining. I love D. I just don't think ohh poor D they had to launch a 150 million dollar bird how will they ever make money - lol.


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## mtlrgst (Sep 15, 2007)

Does the language in the original psoted e-mail seem a little off to anyone else?

In the first paragraph alone: "bring" rather than "bringing" and "information on your concern" rather than "information to address your concerns" (or some variation).

It reads more like the juvenile attempts at business writing you find in phishing e-mails rather than the standard boilerplate responses provided by corporate customer service departments.

Had to de-lurk to provide my $.02. Back to waiting for the new HD channels!


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

wavemaster said:


> I said don't feel bad about them launching a new bird at 200mil. They could actually launch a new one every month of the year and still have a billion left over to play with.


And yet, they tell their stockholders they only clear $100 million or so of that 1.3billion. Are they lying?


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

I suspect this will be a very commonly bartered items. With the amount of programming they give away when people call in, this is just another block in their arsenal.

Create this fee, then when they give it to you for free for 6 months you feel like you got something.

I still have to think Mark Cuban can't be happy about this.


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## nbajam (Jul 10, 2007)

mikeny said:


> Funny. They're actually shuffling around a couple of the channels we use to pay 10 for, e.g. TNT HD, Disc HD Theater, ESPN HD, ESPN 2 HD and rolling those into the rest of the HD Access Tier.
> 
> From what I understand it's going to be HD Net, HD Net Movies, UHD, MGM HD (new), Smithsonian HD (new) that will be in the new Extra Tier. I don't know if I left anything out.
> 
> ...


In this part of the country, TWC does NOT charge more for channels that are included in your package. They charge $5-6 more for MOJO, HD NET, HD NET movies, and Universal.

Granted the only channels I get are OTA's, the ESPN's, TNT, and Discovery.


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

nbajam said:


> In this part of the country, TWC does NOT charge more for channels that are included in your package. They charge $5-6 more for MOJO, HD NET, HD NET movies, and Universal.
> 
> Granted the only channels I get are OTA's, the ESPN's, TNT, and Discovery.


I understand..So essentially there's no HD Access charge..as with D* but there's an HD Extra Fee for the channels you mentioned.

Then the question is, do they charge that much more for their "Digital Tier"; or is that even an option anymore, which as you said includes HD verisons where available.

I guess with D* there are going so many HD Access channels that's not exactly like comparing apples with apples anymore but it's the principle.


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## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> And yet, they tell their stockholders they only clear $100 million or so of that 1.3billion. Are they lying?


No, I'm sure they do clear 100mil a month in pure profit, it is what they are here for after all. I'm glad D makes money.

Like I said at the start of all this, don't feel bad for D because they have to shell out a couple hundred mil for a new bird. In their world it's the cost of doing business (about 6 days of business).


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

nbajam said:


> In this part of the country, TWC does NOT charge more for channels that are included in your package. They charge $5-6 more for MOJO, HD NET, HD NET movies, and Universal.
> 
> Granted the only channels I get are OTA's, the ESPN's, TNT, and Discovery.


So, they don't charge for HD access, but then they don't really _have_ HD access. Seems fair.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

skaeight said:


> Does HDnet charge providers a lot? I don't believe Comcast currently carries HDnet because they can't settle on a contract.
> 
> I wonder if this has anything to do with D* adding this tier. I'll probably pay the $5, but I really wish they'd just add it to the HD+DVR package and be done with it. I'd upgrade to that if they would allow you to get "all HD" excluding premiums.
> 
> I do find it funny that there is not mention of HDnet, etc on the new D* webpages describing what HDTV is in the packages.


HDNet and HDMovies are $1.37 per subscriber. I think that is a huge reason they were pulled out of the mainstream package and put in an "a la carte" option.

I still don't want to pay more for what I already had (really want to see Smithsonian though) but I begrudgingly do see where DIRECTV is coming from. Remove higher priced HD offerings away from the masses and have only those that *want* the channels pay the carriage fees.

Just my cheap $0.02.

Edit: That cost number is from a Variety interview with Mark Cuban.


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

wavemaster said:


> Riddle me this batman? What do D and all the cable providers gouge us for after Feb when all non digital transmissions stop? Before long it will be nothing but HD.


The government requirements are for stopping NTSC analog transmissions in February 2009. There is no reason DIRECTV could not down convert any HD signal it receives to SD and pass that along to subscribers. If they don't do this, then each and every one of the legacy receivers used on the DIRECTV network would need to be replaced. I expect DIRECTV to transmit SD signals for a long time to come.


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## love that tv (Jul 8, 2006)

they should at least credit those who had the HD package prior to HD-day. example, if you had the HD package for 12months prior to tomarrow. you should get 12 credits of 4.99

just a thought to keep give back to those who desperately over payed to get this HD prgramming going!!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> What happens to folks with HR10-250's with this programming shuffle?


At some point, I would not be shocked to see MPEG-2 HD via the Satellite to be a thing of history. This would affect the HR10-250 receivers. OTA and SD should continue to work for many years, though.


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## purtman (Sep 19, 2006)

jganson said:


> What am I missing here? I understand wanting your dish aligned properly, for free. But you want "extra [NEW and previously unavailable] HD channels" for free? I don't get that. DirecTV is spending millions to get new satellites up in space to provide boatloads more HD than you have ever had, and than anyone else offers, and that should be free?  I'm happy to pay the $5, if I have to. It won't break the bank and it's a drop in the bucket compared to what I have into my home theater system.


The term "extra" is misleading. These are channels that aren't listed in the basic packages shown on the web site yet were part of the original HD package to which he currently subscribes.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> The government requirements are for stopping NTSC analog transmissions in February 2009. There is no reason DIRECTV could not down convert any HD signal it receives to SD and pass that along to subscribers. If they don't do this, then each and every one of the legacy receivers used on the DIRECTV network would need to be replaced. I expect DIRECTV to transmit SD signals for a long time to come.


People always say this, and it's true, but I suspect that in the next few years as more people get into HD, SD will start becoming a thing of the past for most people.

Considering how much money DirecTV has spent on the SpaceWays, D10 and D11, I'd say they probably agree with me! 

~Alan


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

oudabashian said:


> My post was that IF you have Premier AND HD Access already, then there is NO extra cost. Since the Premier is covering the cost of all simulcasts and HD access is covering all standalone. Read both 07 AND 09.


Even with that, it doesnt mention HDnet and HDnet movies, plus a couple others that dont have a SD channel
They also arent shown in the premier package with hd access list.
Guess we will have to wait and see what happens


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## JJZ_1971 (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah I'm finding this a little confusing too.

As a basic package person (or whatever they call the one that's around $45-$50/month) I know I need to pay extra for the HD access (to get Discovery HD, HDnet, etc.) and I need to get Sunday Ticket and Superfan to get the HD channels for the football games.

If I get the premium package, which I had for the cost of basic last year when I was a new customer along with Sunday Ticket, does this mean that the HD Access and/or the new HD extras are included in the premium price? So basically would premium and Sunday Ticket and the Superfan ripoff give me all the channels I'd care about, including all of the HD offerings (except for non-NFL, sports package stuff)?

What's the most economical way to get all of the HD channels other than stuff like HBO and Showtime along with Sunday Ticket/Superfan if I don't want to pay for the premium package, or is that the best deal?

JJZ


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

A more appropriate title thread should:

Will Grandfathering expire on Dec 15, 2007 ?

How long should grandfather last?


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## timb2112 (Jul 19, 2007)

Guitar Hero said:


> You damn right I want the new HD channels for free! It's the benefit of being a long time (+9 years) customer of D*.


I've been a subscriber for eight years and I don't expect free HD.

Do you also expect free electricity because you have been a customer of the local power company for many years?


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> You have no idea how much they pay providers, do you? ESPN alone is several dollars per customer. "A million here and a million there and pretty soon it adds up to real money."


SO, cancel my ESPN, I don't watch it anyway, then those of you who do watch it can pay a little extra for it. Then they can add the extra channels to my account.


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

timb2112 said:


> I've been a subscriber for eight years and I don't expect free HD.
> 
> Do you also expect free electricity because you have been a customer of the local power company for many years?


It's not the same. Your comparison is silly.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> People always say this, and it's true, but I suspect that in the next few years as more people get into HD, SD will start becoming a thing of the past for most people.
> 
> Considering how much money DirecTV has spent on the SpaceWays, D10 and D11, I'd say they probably agree with me!
> 
> ~Alan


Not in disagreement Alan and probably at some point a complete switch will take place. I think this is many years away, though. There are still a lot of folks who have DIRECTV and an SD TV that will have no need to change either their receiver or their TV. As long as DIRECTV is sending them a signal that works, they may never change. Their OTA will stop working without some sort of converter box, but their DIRECTV signal should continue to work fine.

But yes, more and more folks will forego SD and move on to HD .. With the new content and channel availability HD is just getting warmed up.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> A more appropriate title thread should:
> 
> Will Grandfathering expire on Dec 15, 2007 ?
> 
> How long should grandfather last?


24 months.


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## Marvin (Sep 14, 2003)

Why isn't Food Network HD on the list of channels in the new package? Food Network SD is entirely different from the HD Channel, so its not a simulcast.


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## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

morgantown said:


> 24 months.


Personally, I'd say 12 months or the remainder of your contract, whichever is longer.

But they don't pay me to make those decisions.


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## tgater (Jul 24, 2007)

wavemaster said:


> Sure, they pay the same as cable.
> 
> No a single foot of cable owned or maintained in the country.
> No "franchise fees" to all the towns.
> ...


Are you positive about the van part? I have had D* techs at my home as well private contractors. I have also verified occupational licenses as well as weather D* or contractor.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

Everything in Feb '09 and later won't be all HD... All the FCC cares about is that OTA NTSC stops.If you want OTA after that time you'll need ATSC tuner, not necessary a HD ATSC tuner. Cable companies will have to support NTSC till 2012 for local stations http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070912-fcc-to-cable-you-must-support-analog-tvs-until-2012.html. ESPN and ESPN2 HD won't be affected by this new tier. I'll have to think if I would want to get this package, if I'm not grandfathered in.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> A more appropriate title thread should:
> 
> Will Grandfathering expire on Dec 15, 2007 ?
> 
> How long should grandfather last?


Grandfather clauses generally last until the person receiving the benefit of the clause either gives up their interest or makes some substantiative changes that negate the old rule applying.

If they take packages we were getting at one fee and add an additional fee to receive them that's called a price/fee increase.

While I recall someone from DirecTV saying there would be no fee increases...I don't think anyone really believed it.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cbeckner80 said:


> SO, cancel my ESPN, I don't watch it anyway, then those of you who do watch it can pay a little extra for it. Then they can add the extra channels to my account.


Please see the Ala Carte discussion in the programming forum


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Grandfather clauses generally last until the person receiving the benefit of the clause either gives up their interest or makes some substantiative changes that negate the old rule applying.
> 
> If they take packages we were getting at one fee and add an additional fee to receive them that's called a price/fee increase.


But the "package" you used to have... is no longer in existance...

As always has been the case... packages and the channels in those packages, have always been subject to change...

They haven't changed often... but honestly... this is not your "normal" new channel additions.


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## warriorking (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi everyone...love this great forum, I look for Direct to Grandfather existing HD customers at no additional cost..To pull 2 of the existing HD channels and charge extra for them would be a slap in the face of current subscribers...When I purchased the total choice and HD package late last year I received the new Chiller channel as well as a couple of other channels when they became available do to grandfathering, very pleased with the gesture by the way....Now as for me to paying an additional 4.99 for 2 HD channels I already have and pay for would be a little unsettling to say the least...I am quite sure Direct feels the same way and will bend over backwards to keep us happy....New customers will pay a little extra as they should but I am quite sure they will save in other areas do to promotions and the like....I have faith in Direct to do the right thing...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

mtlrgst said:


> Does the language in the original psoted e-mail seem a little off to anyone else?
> 
> In the first paragraph alone: "bring" rather than "bringing" and "information on your concern" rather than "information to address your concerns" (or some variation).
> 
> ...


You haven't read a lot of corporate boiler-plate lately. The grammar, spelling and punctuation have become quite poor. Proofreading died long ago. For example, if you go to the DirecTV web page and look in the FAQ area you'll find the HD "Porgramming" section.


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## davidrumm (Dec 2, 2005)

Could the grandfathering be the non mpeg4 HD boxes? Maybe those get grandfathered. Everyone else gets the new packages starting on 9/19 and start paying if you want to keep the extra pack on 12/15. This sounds like a more reasonable explanation of it. The HD Access is for the simulcast channels whether you have the least package or the premier. If you want the 5 or 6 non simulcast channels then you pay the extra $4.99 for them. Just me thinking.


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

flipptyfloppity said:


> What did you expect when they went to 2 year contracts?
> 
> Locking you in for 2 years makes it so they don't have to worry about people switching to cable when they raise their rates to cover their "increased costs" of carrying HD.
> 
> The next shoe to fall: they'll drop OTA HD so that you have to pay them even for local signals.


The next shoe to fall: they'll drop OTA HD so that you have to pay them even for local signals.[/QUOTE]

The next shoe to fall: they'll drop OTA HD so that you have to pay them even for local signals.

They've already done it, they call it the HR-21.


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

I can list a whole bunch of other features they can start charging us extra for, but I don't want to give them any ideas. 

Looks like I wont be with D* for very long. Especially if I cannot view the new HD channels, or if I need to pay extra for them. 

I don't remember paying extra for new channels added to their programming schedule before, have you?


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## tpm1999 (Sep 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the "package" you used to have... is no longer in existance...
> 
> As always has been the case... packages and the channels in those packages, have always been subject to change...
> 
> They haven't changed often... but honestly... this is not your "normal" new channel additions.


Since my account has not yet changed over to the new "HD Access" package, the original package still exists.

I agree totally that this is not a normal channel addition.

Also, since there is No website/press release mention of HD extra package or whatever it is called, then that package does not exist either.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the "package" you used to have... is no longer in existance...
> 
> As always has been the case... packages and the channels in those packages, have always been subject to change...
> 
> They haven't changed often... but honestly... this is not your "normal" new channel additions.


Earl,

It would be for the people "grandfathered" in. But...to your point. DirecTV didn't say anything about grandfathering in old HD subs...did they?

I'm not thrilled about the price increase because it will effect channels I watch. I do wish I could trade-off some that I don't watch for them...but that's another thread. I fully expected rates to go up. DirecTV is getting a double bonus here. Their average monthly bill is going up because people have moved to new receivers/DVRS with HD access...and now they're going to raise the price on the programming.

Somewhere at DirecTV there's a goal for the average monthly bill..My gut says $99 is the goal over the next two - three years (It's currenly around $76). As the market matures and new subs become harder to come by you gotta increase revenues in other ways to make Wall Street happy.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Even if it ends up being $14.99, that is still less than what E* charges for what will soon be half the number of channels.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

leww37334 said:


> The next shoe to fall: they'll drop OTA HD so that you have to pay them even for local signals.


And this is different from cable . . . how, exactly? 

You're making an apples-to-oranges comparison. OTA recording is something not everyone needs or even wants, actually. I've NEVER watched OTA HD in my house because I'm 30-odd miles from the towers (which aren't even in one place anyway), I don't want to put up a big antenna and a rotor, and just don't see the appeal. MPEG4 HD looks excellent most of the time, certainly better than I've seen from Com-crap.


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## warriorking (Jan 31, 2007)

If Direct Adds a new Hd channel package and charges extra then fair enough I can take it or leave it...It crosses the line however if you pull 2 of the most popular HD channels HDnet and Universal HD from our current package and charge extra for them.....I still think we will be grandfathered ....Just in case I ordered some vaseline to make it less painful should it come to that.....


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## tim81 (Jul 3, 2007)

price and packages subject to change without notice! :lol:


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## DrZaiusATL (Sep 5, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Because 6 OPTIONAL channels will cost you $4.99/month to view? Just don't get the XTRA pack if you think the $4.99 is too much.
> 
> Besides, if the documents I saw were correct, the price will not go up if you already have HD services now. I'm gonna wait until we have more information before I worry about the sky falling.


That is true....The first sentence from them is regarding NEW CUSTOMER!


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

ziggy29 said:


> Personally, I'd say 12 months or the remainder of your contract, whichever is longer.
> 
> But they don't pay me to make those decisions.


That is *exactly* what I was thinking when I threw out 24 months Ziggy.


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

marksman said:


> I still have to think Mark Cuban can't be happy about this.


Then Mark should drop his prices! It was posted that his channels are well over $1 per month per channel to D*. And of course that money is paid by US. Personally I don't watch his channels much anyway so I doubt I'll miss them. They were unique when they first came up and we had little choice in HD programing but now their nothing you can't find elsewhere in HD. The only way I'll stay with the $5 pack after the "grandfathering" period is if the MGM amd Smithsonian channels are something we enjoy. I don't really know what type of programming MGM has but I have heard that Smithsonian has pbs like programing and that doesn't interest me. I am glad that we get a choice on whether we want this pack or not instead of it being required like E* does with the Voom channels!


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## Kiteflyer (Sep 16, 2007)

HDNet, HDNet Movies, MGM HD, Smithsonian HD, Universal HD and MHD will be in the HD Xtra Pack for 4.99 after 12/15/07. If you have a 3-lnb dish you will be grandfathered in reference the HDNet channels and the Universal channel until such time as you trade up to a 5-lnb. That's the only grandfathering that's going to happen.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the "package" you used to have... is no longer in existance...
> 
> As always has been the case... packages and the channels in those packages, have always been subject to change...
> 
> They haven't changed often... but honestly... this is not your "normal" new channel additions.


In total agreement, Earl! 

~Alan


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Please see the Ala Carte discussion in the programming forum


Ah yes ala-carte. Let's beat that dead horse again! LOL


----------



## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Not in disagreement Alan and probably at some point a complete switch will take place. I think this is many years away, though. There are still a lot of folks who have DIRECTV and an SD TV that will have no need to change either their receiver or their TV. As long as DIRECTV is sending them a signal that works, they may never change. Their OTA will stop working without some sort of converter box, but their DIRECTV signal should continue to work fine.
> 
> But yes, more and more folks will forego SD and move on to HD .. With the new content and channel availability HD is just getting warmed up.


Again, I understand what you're saying. Most people just kind of brush off anything I say about HD... it doesn't mean a thing to them! In fact, I don't even think most know what it is... but come February, 2009, I will be 28 and most people will finally start to understand what digital and HD really is.

As someone goes out and buys a TV, most of the choices are HD. Over 50% of the population are supposed to have a HDTV after this Christmas, aren't they?

With the recent knowledge that DirecTV will be requiring a KA/KU dish and MPEG4 capable receiver in upcoming SD-LIL DMA launches, these people will start having a little more exposure to HDTV.

As time goes by, more and more people will see HDTV at their friends' houses, and start getting interested. As time goes on, more people will be watching HDTV, thereby lowering the ratings of the SD channels causing the networks to simply DROP these channels.

I suspect that by 2011 or 2012, HDTV will be the majority compared to the minority. That is if the economy gets better or stays level. If it gets worse, TV won't be much of an issue at all...

~Alan


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

morgantown said:


> HDNet and HDMovies are $1.37 per subscriber. I think that is a huge reason they were pulled out of the mainstream package and put in an "a la carte" option.
> 
> I still don't want to pay more for what I already had (really want to see Smithsonian though) but I begrudgingly do see where DIRECTV is coming from. Remove higher priced HD offerings away from the masses and have only those that *want* the channels pay the carriage fees.
> 
> ...


+1 I'll just cancel that crap Setanta channel at that time while picking up this new rumored package and actually have $10 in the process.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

Though it irks me a bit to think I may have to pay extra for some HD channels I'm already getting, what really bugs me right now is that the DTV website is utterly silent about this. There's no mention at all about the "orphaned" HD channels that aren't associated with any package. And the FAQs gives the impression that there will be no extra charges. I know no corporation likes to stress price increases, but there should at least be a footnote somewhere (and if there is, I couldn't find it) to explain things clearly.

Edit: By the way, please ignore the "Q" that somehow found its way into the subject for my post. Don't know what that's about - a stray keystroke, I guess.


----------



## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

Hold on: I just found this on the DTV website (see below). Should this be understood to apply only to current HD programming costs as opposed to upcoming HD programming costs?

How much does high-definition programming from DIRECTV cost? 
For just $9.99 per month, you will get access to DIRECTV's superior HD technology, enabling you to see a wide range of HD programming. You will be able to watch all the available HD channels associated with your base package (e.g. ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, TNT HD) including RSNs, as well as incremental HD Channels like Universal HD, Discovery HD Theater™, HD NET and HD NET Movies*. In addition, HD Locals are included at no extra charge.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

shendley said:


> Though it irks me a bit to think I may have to pay extra for some HD channels I'm already getting, what really bugs me right now is that the DTV website is utterly silent about this. There's no mention at all about the "orphaned" HD channels that aren't associated with any package. And the FAQs gives the impression that there will be no extra charges. I know no corporation likes to stress price increases, but there should at least be a footnote somewhere (and if there is, I couldn't find it) to explain things clearly.
> 
> Edit: By the way, please ignore the "Q" that somehow found its way into the subject for my post. Don't know what that's about - a stray keystroke, I guess. .


Their won't be a $4.99 charge until December 15th. DirecTV probably didn't feel the need to mention it on the website at this time.



shendley said:


> Hold on: I just found this on the DTV website (see below). Should this be understood to apply only to current HD programming costs as opposed to upcoming HD programming costs?
> 
> How much does high-definition programming from DIRECTV cost?
> For just $9.99 per month, you will get access to DIRECTV's superior HD technology, enabling you to see a wide range of HD programming. You will be able to watch all the available HD channels associated with your base package (e.g. ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, TNT HD) including RSNs, as well as incremental HD Channels like Universal HD, Discovery HD Theater™, HD NET and HD NET Movies*. In addition, HD Locals are included at no extra charge.


That's old. Notice that they only mention channels currently available, and not any of the ones about to be offered...

~Alan


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Badger said:


> Ah yes ala-carte. Let's beat that dead horse again! LOL


Well, we could get it...but in reverse...DirecTV can just start peeling more and more channels from the packages and make them available at extra charge.


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

I'm still irked. If they're already thinking of access to the "orphaned" HD channels as a "free preview" (as the letter the OP posted put it) until 12/15, then they should mention this somewhere. As it stands their website misleadingly suggests no extra fees. And you will search in vain to find a reference to an "HD Extra"package. This, to me, is just a matter of being honest with your consumers.



Alan Gordon said:


> Their won't be a $4.99 charge until December 15th. DirecTV probably didn't feel the need to mention it on the website at this time.
> 
> ~Alan


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

shendley said:


> Hold on: I just found this on the DTV website (see below). Should this be understood to apply only to current HD programming costs as opposed to upcoming HD programming costs?
> 
> How much does high-definition programming from DIRECTV cost?
> For just $9.99 per month, you will get access to DIRECTV's superior HD technology, enabling you to see a wide range of HD programming. You will be able to watch all the available HD channels associated with your base package (e.g. ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, TNT HD) including RSNs, as well as incremental HD Channels like Universal HD, Discovery HD Theater™, HD NET and HD NET Movies*. In addition, HD Locals are included at no extra charge.


Link?


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## shendley (Nov 28, 2005)

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/faqPage.jsp?assetId=1300027#category4

It's the answer to question 4 under costs.



Earl Bonovich said:


> Link?


----------



## tpm1999 (Sep 5, 2006)

shendley said:


> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/faqPage.jsp?assetId=1300027#category4
> 
> It's the answer to question 4 under costs.


Looks like Directv isnt going to charge extra for HDNET... :lol:

We all know directv is being way too secretive for a plan that everyone and their drunkin uncle knows about...maybe it's time for Directv to come out and tell the truth *BEFORE *HD channels launch this Wednesday. :nono2:


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## FlyBono24 (Jan 3, 2007)

What kind of crap is this?


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

It says choice and above WITH locals. What if you dont have locals offered??
that is in response to the link above, should have quoted it
sorry


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

shendley said:


> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/faqPage.jsp?assetId=1300027#category4
> 
> It's the answer to question 4 under costs.


I wonder how long that answer will last. Not long...


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## papa_azteca (Jan 11, 2007)

davidrumm said:


> Could the grandfathering be the non mpeg4 HD boxes? Maybe those get grandfathered. Everyone else gets the new packages starting on 9/19 and start paying if you want to keep the extra pack on 12/15. This sounds like a more reasonable explanation of it. The HD Access is for the simulcast channels whether you have the least package or the premier. If you want the 5 or 6 non simulcast channels then you pay the extra $4.99 for them. Just me thinking.


ding 
ding
ding
ding

We have a winner that understands this


----------



## papa_azteca (Jan 11, 2007)

just wait .. those customers that received an hr20 at a very low price will probably not get anything from d* except for the free preview ..

"well, mr cust, you did a receive an hd dvr at no charge, free hd access for a year, programming credit, etc, etc. You want these six channels? That'll be more money because we have to make up for some of the money we gave you."


----------



## papa_azteca (Jan 11, 2007)

warriorking said:


> If Direct Adds a new Hd channel package and charges extra then fair enough I can take it or leave it...It crosses the line however if you pull 2 of the most popular HD channels HDnet and Universal HD from our current package and charge extra for them.....I still think we will be grandfathered ....Just in case I ordered some vaseline to make it less painful should it come to that.....


here's an idea for D*:
continue charging $9.99 for the few channels we are getting now and have been receiving in the past and then charge us $19.99 for the new hd channels for those that want the new channels. see, this way, we don't feel screwed for having to pay more.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

I didn't go digging for a link to the thread that previously discussed the HD package changes on the horizon. I believe I do remember, though, that they mentioned "legacy HD customers" and "Non-legacy HD customers". The Legacy HD customers would be those that were subscribing to the HD Access Package as of a certain date (I don't know what that date is - if it has already passed or 9/19 or whatever). Non-Legacy HD customers would include new customers as of another certain date (maybe the same date as above, maybe not? - but close) and those who were already D* customers but were not subscibers to the HD Access Package.

Just as the change in package structure in March 07 resulted in people having program packages that don't currently exist (and were therefore, grandfathered in with those packages), I believe that those who are considered "Legacy HD Customers", and are therefore grandfathered in with their current HD channels, will continue to receive what are now going to be "HD Extra Pack" channels along with the HD simulcast channels of those with SD channels.

As for the December 15th date, I could certainly see D* giving new and existing HD customers access to all of that - a "Free Preview" if you will, while they actually roll out the new HD channels and get them all up and running. At that time, I can see them insituting the new pricing structure.

I also believe that those who are considered "Legacy HD Customers" and have not made material changes to their HD package structure (dropped it in the mean time and picked it up again, switched to a package that doesn't already include it, etc.) will be grandfathered beyond the Dec 15th date, just as those with the grandfathered programming packages that haven't made changes are still getting them as they were before.

A lot of speculation, maybe wishing (?), but I guess none of us will really know until D* finalizes their plans in this regard and updates their policy to reflect such.

I guess with any of the pricing changes D* implements, I will need to look at what the cost will be for me and whether I feel it is reasonable enough FOR ME, and either pay it, or drop that part of my service. If D* chooses to let us "legacy" folks receive the whole slate of HD channels until we make changes ourselves, then I'll enjoy it while I have it. If, come December 15th, they move some channels and ask me to pay extra for them, I'll decide then. As it stands, it is DirecTV's business how they set their prices - it's my business if I want to pay them. I don't read any "fairness" into something like that - I'm not entitled to satellite TV, it's a product I either purchase or I don't.


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## ShaneHD (Aug 14, 2007)

Guitar Hero said:


> It's up to high for me to get to. If it wasn't, this alignment issue wouldn't exist. I'd take care of it myself. But, since I'm disabled and in a wheelchair, it's impossible for me to do anything.


I seriously doubt D* would NOT come out and fix the issue.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

papa_azteca said:


> just wait .. those customers that received an hr20 at a very low price will probably not get anything from d* except for the free preview ..
> 
> "well, mr cust, you did a receive an hd dvr at no charge, free hd access for a year, programming credit, etc, etc. You want these six channels? That'll be more money because we have to make up for some of the money we gave you."


Doubt they would run it that way.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

shendley said:


> I'm still irked. If they're already thinking of access to the "orphaned" HD channels as a "free preview" (as the letter the OP posted put it) until 12/15, then they should mention this somewhere. As it stands their website misleadingly suggests no extra fees. And you will search in vain to find a reference to an "HD Extra"package. This, to me, is just a matter of being honest with your consumers.


I suspect that DirecTV (and Dish, and every cable company) are planning for a price increase next Spring... but so far, no mention of it on any site.

It will be there, just give it time...

~Alan


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## FlyBono24 (Jan 3, 2007)

papa_azteca said:


> here's an idea for D*:
> continue charging $9.99 for the few channels we are getting now and have been receiving in the past and then charge us $19.99 for the new hd channels for those that want the new channels. see, this way, we don't feel screwed for having to pay more.


yeah we've been paying $9.99 a month for a LONG TIME for this crap selection of like 5 HD channels...


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

JLucPicard said:


> I didn't go digging for a link to the thread that previously discussed the HD package changes on the horizon. I believe I do remember, though, that they mentioned "legacy HD customers" and "Non-legacy HD customers". The Legacy HD customers would be those that were subscribing to the HD Access Package as of a certain date (I don't know what that date is - if it has already passed or 9/19 or whatever). Non-Legacy HD customers would include new customers as of another certain date (maybe the same date as above, maybe not? - but close) and those who were already D* customers but were not subscibers to the HD Access Package.


Actually, it said:



> Existing customers
> • Grandfather all customers with legacy HD
> equipment
> • Create new HD programming tier(s)
> ...


The only talk of grandfathering on the page was for customers with legacy HD equipment. It stated that "remaining legacy customers" and new customers 
would pay $4.99. Scott G. over at SatelliteGuys.us stated that he was hearing that exisiting subs MIGHT be grandfathered... and everybody just kind of ran with it...

Personally, I was skeptical from the beginning...

~Alan


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

If ya got an HR10 - keep it on your account till this is worked out. I know I am.



Alan Gordon said:


> Actually, it said:
> 
> The only talk of grandfathering on the page was for customers with legacy HD equipment. It stated that "remaining legacy customers" and new customers
> would pay $4.99. Scott G. over at SatelliteGuys.us stated that he was hearing that exisiting subs MIGHT be grandfathered... and everybody just kind of ran with it...
> ...


----------



## Kevin Dupuy (Nov 29, 2006)

I really gotta wonder if this comes to pass. It seems like a dumb thing for DIRECTV to do. (Then again, isn't raising rates the best way to make customers like you? It works for Apple)


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

Badger said:


> Then Mark should drop his prices! It was posted that his channels are well over $1 per month per channel to D*. And of course that money is paid by US. Personally I don't watch his channels much anyway so I doubt I'll miss them. They were unique when they first came up and we had little choice in HD programing but now their nothing you can't find elsewhere in HD. The only way I'll stay with the $5 pack after the "grandfathering" period is if the MGM amd Smithsonian channels are something we enjoy. I don't really know what type of programming MGM has but I have heard that Smithsonian has pbs like programing and that doesn't interest me. I am glad that we get a choice on whether we want this pack or not instead of it being required like E* does with the Voom channels!


I'm guessing MGM will be like universal...since both are the names of big hollywood production companies.

MGM will show MGM studios pictures and other features the studo has a big interest in.


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## wolfman730 (Sep 10, 2006)

tpm1999 said:


> Looks like Directv isnt going to charge extra for HDNET... :lol:
> 
> We all know directv is being way too secretive for a plan that everyone and their drunkin uncle knows about...maybe it's time for Directv to come out and tell the truth *BEFORE *HD channels launch this Wednesday. :nono2:


They better not, I've had HDnet since day one.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

jautor said:


> Um, are you forgetting about those 11 or so van-sized objects 22 thousand miles above us? Those aren't exactly free to build, put up there, or operate...
> 
> I'm not happy about prices going up either, but I do think D* is going to be in the driver's seat for a while. Especially for those of us not in a FIOS area.
> 
> Jeff


Just as big: the humongous transmission facilities that pump megawatts into space so that watts can hit the birdies in the sky, and get bounced back.

Maybe someday they'll figure out a cheap way to provide them with land power instead of solar panels that provide 15 or so hours of juice every 24....maybe a nice laser.


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## Mixer (Sep 28, 2006)

If this is true (and I hae my doubts about it) it is a no brainer for me to not pay the extra 5 a month at least for now since I can not see the 119 sat where these live anyway. 

Now when they go to MPEG4 I would crtainly consider picking them pack up as an extra pack. 

This is all gettign quite insane though 

LOL


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## TriggerDeems (Mar 1, 2007)

None of us want an increase in price, and I hope we are all grandfathered, but personally I'll keep it a little more perspective--it is less than $0.17 per day after all....

I could go to Starbucks one less time per month  

I could not buy a can of soda out of the machine once per week, but instead bring one from home  

I could bring a lunch one time per month instead of getting fast food for lunch  

I could drive 20 less miles in a month and make it up in gas  

I could bet just $5 on a hand of blackjack just one time, instead of $10, when the near-monthly friend/family visits


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

Ext 721 said:


> I'm guessing MGM will be like universal...since both are the names of big hollywood production companies.
> 
> MGM will show MGM studios pictures and other features the studo has a big interest in.


Thanks, that's what I figured MGM would be. That sounds like a good channel.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> A more appropriate title thread should:
> 
> Will Grandfathering expire on Dec 15, 2007 ?
> 
> How long should grandfather last?


I don't know. How long does my Total Choice Plus package last for? I get so confused over all the names the same thing (all non-premiums and no sports) has had since 1994. The special fees have multiplied, tho.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> If ya got an HR10 - keep it on your account till this is worked out. I know I am.


I've got 3 HR20s and an HD package right now .. I suspect that will keep me in the loop for HD programming.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> I've got 3 HR20s and an HD package right now .. I suspect that will keep me in the loop for HD programming.


His point was that keeping the HR10-250 active would grandfather you... but I'm not sure since DirecTV might see an HR20 active on my account and say, well, he can view them in one room!

Plus, there's only so much time before MPEG2 HD goes away...

~Alan


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the "package" you used to have... is no longer in existance...
> 
> As always has been the case... packages and the channels in those packages, have always been subject to change...
> 
> They haven't changed often... but honestly... this is not your "normal" new channel additions.


Earl--

I understand your point, but the "Watch my lips, no new taxes" promise kinda undercuts it a tad. If D* had kept their mouths shut and not said anything, we'd have been completely unsurprised when the rates went up.

As it is, it seems pretty weaselly to invent some new category and then charge for it. Especially when we all know that, after a brief interlude, the HD package price will jump. The "*subject to change*" notices are rather frequent in the FAQ.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Kiteflyer said:


> HDNet, HDNet Movies, MGM HD, Smithsonian HD, Universal HD and MHD will be in the HD Xtra Pack for 4.99 after 12/15/07. If you have a 3-lnb dish you will be grandfathered in reference the HDNet channels and the Universal channel until such time as you trade up to a 5-lnb. That's the only grandfathering that's going to happen.


ANd for the 3 remaining HD Mpeg2 channels they charge you what? $10 instead of $5? How's that again?


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## Chuck W (Mar 26, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the "package" you used to have... is no longer in existance...
> 
> As always has been the case... packages and the channels in those packages, have always been subject to change...
> 
> They haven't changed often... but honestly... this is not your "normal" new channel additions.


Earl, they changed the packages, earlier this year, yet many of us are still grandfathered in for some costs, such as the DVR fee. The package name changed, but we are still grandfathered in for no charge DVR access.

I expect this to hold true for HD, com Dec 15th, but we shall see.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The package "is no longer in existance" rings kinda hollow. Total Choice packages aren't their either accept in the form of a group of channels that grandfathered people get to this day. They don't get the new ones admittedly, but they are grandfathered for the ones that still exist.

Why wouldn't anyone who has been with the HD package be similarly grandfathered? 

I guess I'm also off put by the Premier package doesn't get these automatically included. Perhaps at next year's price increase.

Ah well, we'll see what this week and December brings 

Cheers,
Tom


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## aramus8 (Nov 21, 2006)

TriggerDeems said:


> I could bet just $5 on a hand of blackjack just one time, instead of $10, when the near-monthly friend/family visits


That's just great, if everybody does this dealers will have to be laid off because of this price increase. I'm calling my Congressman!!:lol:


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## apexmi (Jul 8, 2006)

davidrumm said:


> Could the grandfathering be the non mpeg4 HD boxes? Maybe those get grandfathered. Everyone else gets the new packages starting on 9/19 and start paying if you want to keep the extra pack on 12/15. This sounds like a more reasonable explanation of it. The HD Access is for the simulcast channels whether you have the least package or the premier. If you want the 5 or 6 non simulcast channels then you pay the extra $4.99 for them. Just me thinking.


If this is the case I'll leave my Samsung 360 on the account the spare room isn't the main HD viewing anyway. But it would really work out the same 4.99 for the receiver or the package.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Guitar Hero said:


> I'm just going to drop DirecTV all together. Screw them.


Guitar Hero,

It has been good to know you on this forum. I am sorry for your decision but respect it.

Good Luck to you.

- Craig


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> The government requirements are for stopping NTSC analog transmissions in February 2009. There is no reason DIRECTV could not down convert any HD signal it receives to SD and pass that along to subscribers. If they don't do this, then each and every one of the legacy receivers used on the DIRECTV network would need to be replaced. I expect DIRECTV to transmit SD signals for a long time to come.


Once they can get the old SD receivers converted to HD, then they no longer need to broadcast SD, the receiver can convert and grandfather existing older SD TV's.

That will be a lot of receivers to eventally replace.

- Craig


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

aramus8 said:


> . I'm calling my Congressman!!:lol:


If you get the state of Virginia to drop their inane taxes, I'll pay the 4.99 gladly.


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## perilous (Sep 4, 2006)

flipptyfloppity said:


> What did you expect when they went to 2 year contracts?
> 
> Locking you in for 2 years makes it so they don't have to worry about people switching to cable when they raise their rates to cover their "increased costs" of carrying HD.
> 
> The next shoe to fall: they'll drop OTA HD so that you have to pay them even for local signals.


DING! DING! DING! We got a winner!!!!


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

The four coming HD Discovery networks will probably carry 99.9% of what is found on Discovery HD Theater. The same goes for the coming MTV-HD VH1-HD, and CMT-HD channels, and MHD. Universal HD programming will probably be carried by the other NBC/Universal HD networks. While I occasionally watch UHD, HDNet/Movies. They are not really all that compelling in their programming. With History HD, and the Discovery HD networks, I think I'll get my fill of that type of programming, and so Smithsonian doesn't really matter that much either. As for MGM-HD, from it's website, it doesn't seem all that interesting either, and there are plenty of movies to watch with what I'll have. I doubt that I'll subscribe to the HD Extra Pack.


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## M3 Pete (Jul 24, 2007)

tpm1999 said:


> Uh Oh...Spagetteos!!!
> 
> Guess we are grandfathered...for ~3 months.
> 
> Did anyone think Directv was going to be nice to those of us waiting for more HD for 2 years?


It has been almost three years for me. They were promising more channels way back then. :nono2:


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

To DirecTV:

I've been with DirecTV since 1994, when I fired my last cable company and paid $1000 to do it. I don't expect this little thing to change matters any.

But....

Over the years, D* has been tacking on so many $5 and $10 fees that it's starting to get stupid. Shortly the fees will be more than the basic service.

We have DVR service fees, leased receiver fees, additional receiver fees, HD Access fee, warranty fee, magazine subscription fee, etc.

Now we add the Extra HD Access Fee. When it goes through, my bill will have *THIRTY SEVEN DOLLARS* in fees. Plus tax.

Will I pay it? Probably. My only alternative is E*, and I suspect that they're no better. But it rankles. Almost as much as cable rankled in 1994. At some point I'll have the SBC offer to consider (not FIOS, alas). Did I mention I paid $1000 to fire my cable company in 1994?

The new HD channels are wonderful, and I thank D* for dragging the industry into the HD age. DirecTV has been leading the industry since Stanley Hubbard had an idea in 1981. Good job.

But these fees are getting RIDICULOUS.

Pare them back. Combine them into basic service. Especially the warranty fee which is scandalous. And this new arbitrary one. There is no reason why a few channels should be unbundled, other than D* wants to weasel out of it's various commitments not to raise rates. Scrap the fee and then raise the HD fee on time in 2008. I don't so much mind the rates going up as I mind the transparent BS shell game.

You should also give the legacy HR10-_only_ customers a break and drop their $10 fee to at most $5 for the short time Mpeg-2 HD is available. Or just kill Mpeg-2 entirely and boost the SD bitrates some. SD used to be _much_ better on D*.

Anyway, that's my constructive criticism, do with it what you will.

Oh, and bring back TiVo.


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## Fuzzybear (Dec 29, 2006)

I think I will just dump 1 receiver that the kids constantly watch 3 channels on;


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## MalibuRacing (Mar 2, 2007)

If you look at D* website, it ALWAYS says: _All programming and pricing subject to change at any time. _, when it discusses pricing for HD packages, it's usually in bold letters too. While I can say that I definitely do NOT want my rates raised, I honestly see it coming. I pay over $100 month for their service as it stands. Unfortunately for us, if they offer more than any of their competition, they probably have a justification to charge more. 

The way I see it is, the best thing for us as consumers is if cable companies, FIOS and E* keep up and give D* a competitive fight. The more options out there, the better for us, and will hopefully keep the cost down for consumers.

So, while some people want to bash cable and E*, I hope they equal or exceed what D* plans on offering. I wouldn't have a single problem dropping any of them if I had a better option.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Once they can get the old SD receivers converted to HD, then they no longer need to broadcast SD, the receiver can convert and grandfather existing older SD TV's.
> 
> That will be a lot of receivers to eventally replace.
> 
> - Craig


yes, this is true and at some point it will make sense to do that but now .. no. many folks will be happy to stay where they are while others will upgrade on their own.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

I switched to D* back in 2000 because it was a better value than cable. If this fee is true than the pendulum will have swung the other way for me. My local cable company already has most of the channels D* will soon be broadcasting. It looks like it is time to leave D* and their rapidly escalating prices.


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## Mindhaz (Sep 25, 2006)

I want the package where they drop the SD channels that don't have HD equivalents. How much can I get back? I don't mind paying for stuff I want, but it seems like I have to pay for lots of stuff I don't just to get it.

Back in the day when USSB existed, I got the locals via the antenna and the premiums via the satellite. I had everything I wanted for about $30 a month... now I pay over $120 for the same stuff.

I do pay for a bunch of channels I never watch and it really gripes me. I feel like I'm making donations to causes I don't support. For example, I'd like a refund for whatever portion of my bill goes to Oprah for the We channel. Oprah is a nice enough person, but she has plenty of money. I don't watch her channel. She doesn't need my money. I'd also like refunds for all of the subsidies I'm dishing out for children's, ethnic, women's, sexual preference, liberal, shopping and government programming. I'm not saying these channels shouldn't exist. I just shouldn't have to pay for them. This is "pay" TV, not government equalization of the airways.

I guess I'll be paying over $120 + another $4.99 in December, but I can't wait for a la carte programming. I'd like to pay for what I eat again.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

There will be flawless HD in every home in the farthest reaches of Comcast territory before you ever see a la carte programming. Until then, art channel folks will continue to support golf programming and MLB fanatics will continue to support Fox Reality Channel - that's just how it is in the direct-to-home TV business!


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

I love when people say 'Yes' to a thread about whether they would pay more in a forum that we all know people from D* read. Do you also volunteer to the IRS that you probably would still survive if they taxed you a few extra percent?

We should post hell no, I'll cancel my service if they do it. Of course they'd know we're all lying but at least this thread won't be usable in some marking drones powerpoint presentation to the boss.


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

sunking said:


> I love when people say 'Yes' to a thread about whether they would pay more in a forum that we all know people from D* read. Do you also volunteer to the IRS that you probably would still survive if they taxed you a few extra percent?
> 
> We should post hell no, I'll cancel my service if they do it. Of course they'd know we're all lying but at least this thread won't be usable in some marking drones powerpoint presentation to the boss.


I prefer to remind them that the phone companies are offering a third choice. Satellite is going to have a tough time competing with fiber as it is. And no internet. The last thing they need to be doing is annoying their best customers.


----------



## rbrome (Aug 18, 2006)

Guitar Hero said:


> You damn right I want the new HD channels for free! It's the benefit of being a long time (+9 years) customer of D*.


Ah, yes. I like you. I'll bet you're the type of person that's smart enough to know you deserve the Spider-Man 3 DVD for free just because you bought the first two.

If you're like me, you would also walk into Ikea and demand a free coffee table because you bought all of your other furniture there and your house is fully Ikea-fied? Loyalty has its privileges, right? 

...back to reality:

What is WRONG with you?

What is going on with our society (and what will happen to our economy) where people think they deserve things for free just because they're loyal to a corporation?

Would you be similarly outraged and take your business elsewhere if your favorite fast food joint didn't give you a free meal twice a month for being a loyal customer?

Okay, maybe Subway did a "sub club" thing once where you could do that if you collected the stamps, but they only offer that kind of promotion if they want to; you don't just automatially "deserve" free **** for not being a deadbeat with your bill.

Didn't your parents ever teach you the difference between a right and a privilege? WTF?!


----------



## FlyBono24 (Jan 3, 2007)

Kevin Dupuy said:


> I really gotta wonder if this comes to pass. It seems like a dumb thing for DIRECTV to do. (Then again, isn't raising rates the best way to make customers like you? It works for Apple)





kcmurphy88 said:


> I prefer to remind them that the phone companies are offering a third choice. Satellite is going to have a tough time competing with fiber as it is. And no internet. The last thing they need to be doing is annoying their best customers.


I've said it several times... FiOS is available in my area and I'd switch in a heartbeat if D* didn't have the NFL Sunday Ticket license...


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## FlyBono24 (Jan 3, 2007)

rbrome said:


> Ah, yes. I like you. I'll bet you're the type of person that's smart enough to know you deserve the Spider-Man 3 DVD for free just because you bought the first two.
> 
> If you're like me, you would also walk into Ikea and demand a free coffee table because you bought all of your other furniture there and your house is fully Ikea-fied? Loyalty has its privileges, right?
> 
> ...


Don't be an ass.

It's just that some people have had D* for a long time, and they see all these special deals for NEW subscribers, yet they are still paying full price. They feel as though the company should give them a special deal too, and I don't blame them. As long as they don't ask for EVERY special deal that comes out, obviously.... otherwise they'd just be taking advantage of the situation.


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

rbrome said:


> ...back to reality:
> 
> What is WRONG with you?
> 
> What is going on with our society (and what will happen to our economy) where people think they deserve things for free just because they're loyal to a corporation?


I agree, yet the divergent problem is that some corporations have taken the action of maximizing profits with nearly every move. Whereas in previous generations the corporation actually thought in the long term....treat a customer well (ie do not extract every penny possible), and that customer will treat you well over the years (in simple terms $20/year x 40 years > $100/year x 1 year). Public Corporate policy is now set solely by shareholders and their short term needs.

Particularly in markets where there is little competition - the alternative is not good for those that want to keep up with the Jones.

Anyways, I want my HD...and probably will pay. (I found an extra receiver on my account I'm not using)


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> A more appropriate title thread should:
> 
> Will Grandfathering expire on Dec 15, 2007 ?
> 
> How long should grandfather last?


For as long as the subscriber had payed the $10.99 HD fee for the measly handful of channels that we had.... In my case that would be since they started broadcasting HD.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

sunking said:


> I love when people say 'Yes' to a thread about whether they would pay more in a forum that we all know people from D* read. Do you also volunteer to the IRS that you probably would still survive if they taxed you a few extra percent?


If I got the enjoyment from the IRS that I get from D*, I might.


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## eilloc (May 17, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl Bonovich View Post
A more appropriate title thread should:

Will Grandfathering expire on Dec 15, 2007 ?

How long should grandfather last?


I have been a D* subscriber for less than 2 yrs paying the $9.99 for HD access to a total of 7 channels--not at all worth it, but I thought I would 'someday' get my locals via D* in HD--am too far away to get them OTA in HD. As this topic has all but been forgotten now I wonder if it's ever going to happen! 

To have to pay another $4.99 fee for some channels I already get is a cheap shot on D*'s part. Actually, I really think they want customers like myself who don't subscribe to all the 'extras' to go away. If you don't spend at least $100 month for service, you're not wanted so we're going to keep adding 'fees' to get you to leave or subscribe to more packages. Makes me long for the days of OTA channels only.


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## chuckrollz (Dec 2, 2006)

oh well


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## Guitar Hero (Dec 13, 2005)

rbrome said:


> Ah, yes. I like you. I'll bet you're the type of person that's smart enough to know you deserve the Spider-Man 3 DVD for free just because you bought the first two.
> 
> If you're like me, you would also walk into Ikea and demand a free coffee table because you bought all of your other furniture there and your house is fully Ikea-fied? Loyalty has its privileges, right?
> 
> ...


What's wrong with me? I guess I don't like being taken advantage of, or deceived. I don't like the idea that every time something 'NEW' comes down the D* pipeline, I have to pay extra for it when it obviously is part of the service I initially started paying for. Never thought that means I have something WRONG with me. I never thought when somebody was being treated unfairly that they just had to take it, or leave it. BS!

They make their business bigger and better thanks to customers like me. I've paid them A LOT of money for a service, and a part of being in business is keeping your customer base by offering them new features as the business grows. Part of being in business is setting aside profits for future new services. They just increased prices and now I have to pay more for 'new' services? BS!

I understand increasing prices. That's normal in any business. But, don't rip customers off, charging them for every little new thing that's offered. That's the same BS the phone companies starting doing, and why people leave/left them. That's the same thing the Cable Companies started doing which is why I, and many others, left them for D*. See what I'm angry about?

No, I guess you don't.

I'm the customer. I have something to say how a business I'm involved with treats me as a customer. I don't like how D* is starting to behave. I won't support it and I'll voice my opinion on it. But, in no way am I WRONG about how I feel. I paid when they recently increased prices, and that should cover everything 'NEW' they have to offer.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Given what they are doing with the addition of so many more HD channels, I would MUCH prefer paying $9.99 a month for the base HD package and have the option of paying the additional $4.99 for those "stand-alone" HD channels than to HAVE to pay $14.99 for all of it. My TV viewing habits tend toward sports programming and series (drama and comedy). I don't do a lot of movie watching, or I use NetFlix. There may be some compelling programming on those Extra Pack channels, but will I have the time and desire to watch them? More than likely I won't given the TV I do watch - and maybe even a little more of that if some of it is really in HD.

I don't recall when they started charging for the HD channels they currently carry. I do know I got my first HD DVR in June of 2004, so I've been paying for it from that time or whenever they started it, whichever is later. It did seem like a bit of a steep price to pay for a few channels, but it was HD! I was certainly OK paying it, and have watched it quite a bit. Sure, I had hopes that having been a paying HD customer all along that maybe we wouldn't have to pay more - and at this point we won't until at least Dec 15th and maybe beyond that - I haven't seen anything definitive on the time frames.

But you know what? DirecTV set their prices, I don't. And just like I have to decide if it's worth $12 or $13 a month to subscribe to a movie channel that I may or may not watch enough to make it worthwhile, I will also decide if I will watch the HD Extra pack enough to make it worth the $5 a month more it will cost me. And if not, then I won't subscribe to it.

Bottom line for me, DirecTV provides a service, and I have chosen to pay them for providing that to me. They set the values, I pay it, I receive the programming I pay for. I've gotten a few deals and billing credits along the way, and have been grateful for that. But even though I've been a loyal subscriber since 1996, I do not feel that D* owes me a thing. If they feel that way, I won't stop them from giving me extras, but I do not feel entitled just because of how long I've been with them or how much I spend each month.


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## wpbond69 (Nov 29, 2005)

So now that the new HD channels are finally live, I see on the D* website that the new HD Extras Pack includes all the HD channels that don't have SD counterparts.

The HD Extras Pack will be $4.99, on top of all other base programming packages, including Premier.

The HD Extras Pack includes:
HDNet
HDNet Movies
Universal HD (UHD)
Smithsonian HD
MGMHD (after it launches on D*)
MHD (Music HD, after it launches on D*)

None of these HD channels are included in any of the base packages-- not even Premier.

So besides needed the HD Access fee (at $9.99 or part of the packages w/ HD such as Plus HD DVR), subscribers will also need to pay the HD Extras Pack fee for $4.99 if they want to continue receiving channels like the HDNets & UHD that we've already been receiving for years.  

Supposedly existing HD subscribers will get the HD Extras Pack for free through December 15th, then the charges start.

Perhaps with a lot of subscriber outrage, especially from Premier subs, they might extend the free period to February 2008 on this "Extras" pack. Then they can roll it into the regular HD packs and just charge us more overall-- like they'll probably do anyways.


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## bradpr (Sep 8, 2007)

rbrome said:


> Ah, yes. I like you. I'll bet you're the type of person that's smart enough to know you deserve the Spider-Man 3 DVD for free just because you bought the first two.
> 
> If you're like me, you would also walk into Ikea and demand a free coffee table because you bought all of your other furniture there and your house is fully Ikea-fied? Loyalty has its privileges, right?
> 
> ...


Wow, why be such a jerk? If the guy is dissatisfied, that's his right.


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## Cage (May 21, 2007)

DIRECTV Raising HD Fees?
While it's true DIRECTV is expanding its high-definition offering at an impressive pace, the company also seems ready to expand how much subscribers are going to pay for it. An email sent to the company's customers this week said that unless they pay $4.99 more each month, three popular high-def channels will be pulled from their channel lineups.

Beginning Dec. 15, DIRECTV said HDNet, HDNet Movies and Universal HD will move to the company's newly-developed high-def programming package dubbed DIRECTV HD Extra Pack. The company has offered the channels in the past as part of its basic high-def package for $10 per month.

Unfortunately for subscribers who have become accustomed to the amount of high-def programming they receive now, a few other channels will move to the new package as well. The company said when the December deadline comes, Smithsonian HD, MGM HD and MHD (MTV's new HD channel) will also jump to the HD Extra Pack.

In addition to the regular $10 monthly HD fee, DIRECTV said that both new and existing customers will have to pay the extra $5 to continue receiving all six high-def channels. The company also said all the channels slated to move will be available until the December deadline via a free preview promotion.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Already being discussed ad nauseum.

Here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=105002

And other threads in the Programming Area, too.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

FYI: Please post links to sources for the copied articles (As that is what your post sounds like, please correct me if I am wrong).

Also..

We have known about this for ... what a month plus now?


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## jwebb1970 (Oct 3, 2007)

As a recent D* convert (defected from Comcast 2 wks back), I have no issue w/ the Extra pak. 

For me HDNet/HDNet Movies alone are worth 5 bucks.


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## bigbaddog9999 (Sep 26, 2007)

rbrome said:


> Ah, yes. I like you. I'll bet you're the type of person that's smart enough to know you deserve the Spider-Man 3 DVD for free just because you bought the first two.
> 
> If you're like me, you would also walk into Ikea and demand a free coffee table because you bought all of your other furniture there and your house is fully Ikea-fied? Loyalty has its privileges, right?


I already paid for that IKEA coffee table when I bought the rest of the furniture but it was not yet available. Now that it is in stock, they want me to pay extra for it or else I can't have it.

We have all been overpaying for D* HD for the past several years. Now that we are getting the long promised content, we should not have to pay extra for it.


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## l8er (Jun 18, 2004)

The cable company here used to have The Weather Channel as part of basic cable and then moved it to expanded basic. Those paying for basic cable had The Weather Channel for a number of years as part of basic service. The cable company decided to move that channel to a different tier. Basic cable subscribers no longer received The Weather Channel. To keep receiving it they had to subscribe to expanded basic. 

I see this as much like the current DirecTV move of grouping those HD channels without a SD counterpart into an add on pack. Those paying the HD access were receiving those channels as part of HD access, but now DirecTV is moving them to a different tier. It's not like anyone paying the HD access fee wasn't receiving any HD - they were - but now that HD content is going to be different as far as what's included (or not inlcuded) in the HD access fee. Let's face a little reality here - many people were paying the $9.99 HD access fee for the limited amount of HD content from D* - and had D* chosen to not add the great channels they've recently added - those same people would probably continue to pay $9.99 to receive _some_ HD content.

Back in the early days of C-Band satellite - all the premium channels were free. One could argue that paying $4,000 for a satellite system should have continued to get you those channels for free - but that's not the way it worked.

Things change. Packages change. The package you paid for last year is not the same package of programming you'll pay for next year. Either get over it and move on or find a different programming provider. But keep in mind they'll all change at some point - you either pay to get the programming you want - or stop subscribing and stick with free OTA. All the whining in the universe in these forums won't stop change.

P.S. - How many people whining about $4.99 make 6 figures a year, live in a house that cost 7 figures and drive a car that cost in the upper 5 figures? (You know who you are).


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> If I got the enjoyment from the IRS that I get from D*, I might.


+1 Wow paulman182 you come up with some great posts  I love them :heart:


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## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

I'll probably just pony up the new fee.

But, it's still a tad bitter to have started with "Total Choice Premier", which was the everything, movies, locals and HD, etc. plan, and Sunday Ticket.

Then I had to start paying more for "Super Fan" for the games in HD. They were included with Sunday Ticket when I signed up.

Then Total Choice is replaced with "Premier" and "HD Access". OK.

It wouldn't be as big of an issue if the new "HD Extra Pack" was all new channels, instead of taking away some that I've already been paying for.

I was sold on the fact that "more HD is on the way" from day one. I'm sorry that the SeaLaunch explosion set D* back a bit.

But, as the monthly fees I've been paying all along for limited HD finally seem to be worth it, I'm told were going to take something away.

D* should grandfather all HD Access customers that subscribed before the launch of the D10 services. They'll be plenty of new people signing up for HD now that it is reality.

My $0.02


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I thought it was stated from D* that the new HD fees would NOT be passed on to legacy HD D* customers, but rather for new customers. Has this changed or was this solely an incorrect rumor?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Until today... there was no official statement from DirecTV regarding the $4.99 HD Extra Pack.

The "questions" on the internet today... were the comments made back in July about no price increase.


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## djwww98 (Jan 12, 2006)

bigbaddog9999 said:


> I already paid for that IKEA coffee table when I bought the rest of the furniture but it was not yet available. Now that it is in stock, they want me to pay extra for it or else I can't have it.
> 
> We have all been overpaying for D* HD for the past several years. Now that we are getting the long promised content, we should not have to pay extra for it.


We have all been overpaying? By what standard. And if so, who's fault is that? Much like real estate, there is no definitive value for what something is worth, other than what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone is willing to pay for a service, then, by definition, it's not overpriced, at least not to that individual.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Just read this whole thread ...

If HDNet and HDNet Movies actually does cost D* $1-$2 per subscriber then it does seem like a creative idea to create a separate tier so that they don't need to pay a fee for channels that a large majority may not value as worth a few dollars.


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## bigbaddog9999 (Sep 26, 2007)

djwww98 said:


> We have all been overpaying? By what standard. And if so, who's fault is that? Much like real estate, there is no definitive value for what something is worth, other than what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone is willing to pay for a service, then, by definition, it's not overpriced, at least not to that individual.


You are right that different people value things differently. There are some people who will pay for the HD Extra pack and some that won't. My point is, when I agreed to pay $10/month for HD, it was because D* promised many more channels in the near future. They clearly stated 100 channels or more for $10 month. I was willing to pay because of the promised enhancements. I would guess most of their HD customers, especially the ones that hang out here, viewed the value of the D* HD package in terms of what it will become, not what we have gotten for the past couple years.


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## l8er (Jun 18, 2004)

bigbaddog9999 said:


> .... They clearly stated 100 channels or more for $10 month. ....


 And where exactly was this stated in those words? (100 channels for $10 a month). IIRC, 100 SD channels were never only $10 a month.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Well, I've been effectively grandfathered for the next 12 months. I called D* today and politely voiced my displeasure. The retention rep. issued the HD access credit of $9.99 for the next 12 months and the new HD Extra fee of $4.99 for the next 6 months. I'm happy now.


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## bigbaddog9999 (Sep 26, 2007)

l8er said:


> And where exactly was this stated in those words? (100 channels for $10 a month). IIRC, 100 SD channels were never only $10 a month.


Maybe it wasn't stated all in one place, but D* on many occasions promoted their upcoming capacity to deliver more than 100 national HD channels. And they also promoted the 9.99 HD access package which, until a few days ago included all the HD channels that they provide. I believe they also indicated that when the capacity was increased, that the cost was not going to increase.


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