# Who will Buy the 921?



## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

I too am waiting to purchase the 921 when it's available. I just got the 508 to replace my original 7100 (it's in the basement now). When I was talking to a CSR Supervisor at dish, I had made referance to the 721 and she stated something very interesting...She said that there aren't THAT many subscribers with that unit and that she has never had an inquire about the unit! When I first got my 7100 Dishplayer (for a hundred dollars mind you) I told all of my friends about the unit. I expected that everyone would buy one regardless of price. To my surprise very few of my friends even showed an interest, until they came to my house and saw it in action. This was over five years ago. Then again, I rememeber when I first bought a Laser disc player (prior to DVD) and thought that this was going to be a big seller. I would have lost some serious money had I been an invester! Now we wait for the 921 with all it's bells and whistles, How many people will really be interested enough to spend $899 for this unit? Ask your friends and you'll see what I mean! Most of whom don't even have a HiDef TV. My question to this group is...How many 921s will be sold? By the way, I've already preordered mine.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

I'm going to buy it as soon as it's available. I don't care what it costs, as long as I'm physically able to get it, i'm going too. I've already talked to my Dish installer and we are also going to use the occasion to run some extra cable so i can get high speed internet to the living room where the 921 will be located. My biggest question is should I get the HD-VCR or wait for blue laser. I'm seriously undecided on that as i don't think the HD-VCR is going to be at all useful for the long run as DVD burning is obviously the future archiving standard, at least for the next twenty years or so. these are my thoughts.


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## mchargue (May 5, 2003)

I'm up for one.


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## UpOnTheMountain (Mar 24, 2002)

Hurry, quickly, please, yes!

Archiving options are readily available, but tape and timers feel like going back wards.

Tuners are easily found, but OTA dosen't get the first run commercial free movies.

Seriously though. If it takes too long, I may very well just go with other options. 

If Tivo had a HD version out now, it would be very hard to ignore.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I bought the dishplayer, 501, and 721 as soon as they had come out, but I will not be buying the 921 as soon as it comes out. The reasons are that I dont have an HDTV and the receiver is quite expensive. Another reason is that I am waiting for HDTV to improve, get cheaper, and for the 921 price to come down, as well as seeing how good that receiver is actually going to be to see if others start experiencing problems with it. Perhaps in the future I will but by that time there may be a different receiver model out by then.


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## Orcatek (May 1, 2003)

I've been waiting for 2 years for the 921. My 6000 unit works, but with the limited guide, small favorites lists etc, I'm ready to upgrade. I have a 501 as my second receiver that will retire to another room once the 921 comes out.

Lots of HDTV shows I would like to watch now like CSI, but my kids are too young to see them, so I must time shift on the 501.

Yeah I could probably build a PC solution, but I really got out of building my own solutions a few years ago. 

Like plug and play. I've never had the issues that others have had with E equipment. Heck my old 4000 receiver still works.


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

I probably will eventually, I blew too much cash on toys lately.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

I'm going to try to get my hands on one as soon as there released.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

If HD is via the 110, 119, or possibly the 105 slots I'm in the first line to get one. Unfortunately I cannot see any other birds.


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## telekol (Mar 22, 2003)

Would love tp upgrade if I can get a decent price for the 721 I amusing now, but I dont dare give it up till it on the shelves and known to be workinng!


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

Unless they can fix all the problems and lack of features in the 721, I'm going to assume the 921 is going to be the same ... and thus I wouldn't spend more than a couple hundred on one at most.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Inaba said:


> Unless they can fix all the problems and lack of features in the 721, I'm going to assume the 921 is going to be the same ... and thus I wouldn't spend more than a couple hundred on one at most.


In other words, you're saying you're not going to buy one........

As soon as I can preorder it here locally I'm doing so.

Ken


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

My guess is that a large percentage of the readers of this board will, or will consider buying one. I also guess that a very, very small percentage of the general Dish customers will. This group is not representative of the whole group of Dish customers.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Very true. I assume that those on the boards here will be more likely to buy the higher priced receivers than those that do not come here because people here have a greater interest in satellite.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2003)

At the end of last year and the beginnig of this year, I would have bought one, but now I would have said yes. Now I would have to say no based on my experience with DISH.

Because DISH has an incredibly long development cycle, their products are often obsolete when they do finally come out. The 6000 was obsolete when it came out because it did not have enough memory for open tv. The 721 looks like a hobby project when compared to the dual-tuner Tivo boxes. 

Now we have the 921 coming out after 3 years of development. What are the chances that it is going to have the latest generation OTA tuner, compatibility with other equipment on the 1394, or even work reliably? Eventually they may make it work.

No, I think I will save my money for an HD Tivo box.


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## rudolpht (Nov 6, 2002)

Early in line for DishDepot preorder. 

Tim


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## Big D (Aug 19, 2002)

I am number one on the list at Dish Depot, it was me that pushed Mark to start the list back in early February. Of course we had no idea back then that we would be waiting more than 6 months (and counting) before we see shipments. When I spoke to Mark at the time, he felt sure he was going to be getting in an initial batch by May 1 as I remember, oh well. I am also assuming that the list still exists, I have not heard anything from Dish Depot in quite some time. And yes, I am still interested in buying one, can't wait to have the ability to time shift HD programming like I do most of my SD stuff now.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Although not on Dish Depot's preorder list (I am wary about ordereing something without a price or lead time), I plan on being one of the first to get one.

1. Monster Hard Drive
2. Dual Tuners
3. Record HD from E*
4. Record HD from OTA (from Philly which I can get with an antenna, but Congress says I am not allowed to get from E* as my zip code is in NYC's DMA)

That sums up MY interest right there.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I was going to say that it would be outdated by the time it comes to market but someone here would tell me that it would not be outdated as they upgrade through their satellite signal. Thats fine softwarewise as long as there is enough memory to do so but hardware wise by the time they get it out there are other things out. By the time it would come out with such a delay it would be time to be working on another receiver again. Its putting themselves behind on going forward with the technology. 

I guess they have been waiting to launch the 921 until they get the HD channels up along with the satellites, dishes, and the developement to make it all work and worthwhile and during this time possibly test the software, hardware, and make improvements and changes to it before they mass produce it. The longer something like this comes out the less buggy and the more things people would expect out of a receiver like this.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

Open standards and healthy competition are what make the electrionics industry such a vibrant consumer mecca. That environment does not exist in satellite TV nor satellite internet, resulting in a closed, stagnant, and smelly alternative to cable.

For those wondering how Dish gets away with long development cycles and buggy products, remember that Dish has a monopoly over their satellite receivers since they are based upon a proprietray communications design. Anytime you have a monopoly there will be stagnation since competitors are locked out.

That's why digital cable is better at both TV and internet service. For those of us who live in the hinterland, there is no alternative.

And so we wait for the 921.


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## abospaum (Jul 11, 2002)

If the 921 was ready then why wait until the HD channels are up and running. They already could probably sell out what they have. This would raise cash for the company and help fund their operations and development activity.

Also it is kind of stupid to expect that they can do everything at once. They have not been able to show such coordination before. Also it makes no sense. Get the receivers in peoples hands and work out the final bugs and when the channels are online the receivers will have gone through a couple of software upgrades to work out the initial bugs.


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## drjake (Jun 12, 2002)

Abospaum,

DISH sells equipment at breakeven or a loss. Thus selling 921's would not raise cash for the company. Cash Flow and profits come from subscriber revenue.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Dish probably wants to wait for HD channels to be out because if they would release such an expensive product before the HD channels come out, there would be a lot more increased pressure to have them added and complaints of having all that money in some hardware that is doing them any better than a cheaper pvr could and so forth. They want to have some HD channels out in which is what the 921 is intended for.


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

I'll be ordering one as long as the price is under $1000. It will look good next to my 721. Since all the locals in Tulsa are broadcasting in DTV, it will be nice to time shift local programming without the pixels on my 65" mitsu.


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

See my signature.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

I think I will take a wait and see approach. The 921 does not have an RGB output which is what my CRT projector needs. I have all of the SFO Bay area local and network stations currently on an OTA HD receiver along with a MYHD card in my HTPC. Once the 921 boxes are actually available I would expect to see some reasonably priced transcoders to convert from Component to RGB and at that time make the decision to add HBO to get some HD movies along with a 921. This time I won't be an early adopter. 

..Doyle


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## UpOnTheMountain (Mar 24, 2002)

Doyle,
I have my MYHD MDP-120 on the way now. Just shipped today. I hope I made the right choice. Can you give any suggestions on archiving,DVD-burning or other uses?
tia
Keith


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

A few months ago I would have said 100% that I would get one. However, with E* not providing new HD channels (just announcing them doesn't count, they have to be available) and the 921 delay I may switch to D* especially if they can get the HD Tivo unit out the door. I like Dish (I switched from D* 24 months ago) but I'm getting fed up with their continual delays getting announced hardware/services out the door.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If they cannot get the hardware out then dont say you will. Point blank right there. If you are uncertain of it, dont announce it.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

I'll wait to see what the feature list is like for the HD Tivo. The only reason I stay with Dish is because I use the 5000 w/Mod to record HD. My opinion of 169time is pretty low. Tivo sent me a private Survey a couple months ago about HD units. I pretty much told them Dual Tuner DBS and at least one OTA, Firewire for archiving and Component Video out. If they get all those in I'd drop dish in a heartbeat. As much as I don't like the fees associated with Tivo, they do have the best interface, with Replay comming in a close second. Now, maybe if Dish offered a nice buy back price on the 5000 (that will certainly become obsolete within months of the 921's release) then I'll consider it.


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## MikeJ (May 1, 2003)

I plan on purchasing a 921 as soon as it is available in Denver. I started HDTV in 1999 with a DISH 5000 and HDTV Modulator feeding into a Mitsubishi HD-1080. I was one of the first to get a 6000 and 8-VSB module. I then added the 8-PSK module. My second receiver is a 501 PVR.

When I get the 921 I will use it with my Mitsubishi WS-55805 and Promise Module. I will move the 6000 to my bedroom and hook it up to a small Samsung HDTV Monitor I have.

I currently get all four Echostar Satellites and cascade to my SW64 switch through an SW21 switch.

When SuperDish comes out I will have to change to the new switches.


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## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

I switched from DirecTV because Dish had the better PVR unit (no fee, 90 hours, dual tuner). Albeit the 721 has not been kind to me, many of the problems I experienced have gone away since the replacement. Although the changing channel and getting a black screen seems to be back.

I was originally going to purchase a Hughes receiver for DirecTV to go along with my HDTV. Lack of help by any sales people, lack of upgrade path from DirecTV, basically pushed me over the edge and into Dish Network. I'm waiting for the 921. Sure, it would be great to have HD channels outside of locals (DirecTV has a few). I'm more interested in OTA, the rest is gravy. If DirecTV comes out with a Tivo unit for HDTV, with a decent record time, I too may consider switching if the 921 isn't out by then.

Regardless, I'll still sit waiting, patiently, to see what issues arise before forking out the cash. I already made an investment in the 721 that hasn't panned out as I had hoped for far too long. I'd hate to make the same mistake with the 921. Or for a similar Tivo unit.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I am expecting my 721's first replacement later today (Wednesday).


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Is the 721 that buggy? I haven't been following... Does anyone know what the exact number of defective units are vs. the number of units shipped? There area always failures in this type of product, but usually they are a very small percentage. 

The 921 is based off of 721 technology. I know this question has been asked, but will the 921 benefit from the work that has gone into making the 721 a more stable product??


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

I wil not be getting a 921...not right away. I will get a 211 when it's released, coupled with my Mits DVCR. 

With all of the hardware and programming changes coming, I'm going to wait a bit to make a thousand dollar investment into any reciever. If Directv gets the compression issues worked out with their HD package, I will consider switching to them.

I'm upset with Dish right now because of their delay and lack of information on when HDNet etc will be offered, and real lack of committment to any HD at this point. I know, there is a lot planned...I'll believe it when I see it. If Dish can prove to me that we HD subscribers matter to them, I will gladly invest in the 921 and all HD programming I can get!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I am wondering if there would be as much of an issue with the 322 and 522 receivers as there are with the 721 receiver with both tuners being independant on a pvr (522) or if the 322 would have less problems with tuners going bad.


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

Peluso said:


> Is the 721 that buggy? I haven't been following... Does anyone know what the exact number of defective units are vs. the number of units shipped? There area always failures in this type of product, but usually they are a very small percentage.
> 
> The 921 is based off of 721 technology. I know this question has been asked, but will the 921 benefit from the work that has gone into making the 721 a more stable product??


The 721 is not buggy. No one has been able to quantify more than a half a dozen bugs of any significance.


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## J. Allen Head (Apr 21, 2002)

I'll buy if the price comes down a good bit more

Maybe around $500 or so - Can't go much more than that for a receiver even tho this is the one I've been waiting years for. :nono:


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Several hundred of us are on the Initial order list for the 921. I am Dish Depots list.


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## J. Allen Head (Apr 21, 2002)

Good Luck on the price - Maybe you won't get bent over to bad - LOL


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## rudolpht (Nov 6, 2002)

They have always done well by me. Reputable folks. I don't know why they even take back old units given margins. Very reliable.


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## J. Allen Head (Apr 21, 2002)

I'm sorry - I wasn't refering to Mark and Dish Depot - I was refering to Dish's price before Mark gets it in his hands.

E* will probably spike the price because everybody wants a 921 and keeps saying that they would pay 1000.00 - almost everybody 

I would love to have one but can't pay that kind of money for a receiver.

I would love to see them in the $500.00 range


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

J. Allen Head said:


> I'm sorry - I wasn't refering to Mark and Dish Depot - I was refering to Dish's price before Mark gets it in his hands.
> 
> E* will probably spike the price because everybody wants a 921 and keeps saying that they would pay 1000.00 - almost everybody
> 
> ...


And like we told you dude, 500 would barely cover the hd in the unit. You need to be at least realistic.

Ken


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

They will be more pricey at first to try to get a little more out of them and because its more expensive to make at first not being able to make them in bulk as much.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

kstevens said:


> And like we told you dude, 500 would barely cover the hd in the unit. You need to be at least realistic.
> Ken


No, I believe the unit could easily be made for well under $500. Currently 200GB drives go for about $1 a meg... much less i'm sure i you buy in huge bulk. Rest of it is just ic's and board. Standard components. My guess is that they will be able to purchase drive for $100 to $175 range knowing what I know about industrial sales. Even if rest of unit costs the same you are still looking at $400 max manufacturing costs. Problem is that Charlie has to recoup development costs. That part is where huge part of wholesale profit is going to go.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

I'll have to agree with Peluso. Except he's being very generous. In bulk, 200GB drives can be had for under $100/unit. As he said, the rest is IC's. In the numbers that E* mentioned in the other thread from Jacob_S... the bulk E* is talking about would bring the cost per unit way down, even for the HD circuitry.

The reason HD is so high right now is that everyone is trying to recoup their development costs and it's a sellers market. People will pay a premium for bragging rights. There's nothing inheriently expensive in the IC's for HD decoders, they are just rare. I refuse to pay a premium for it... so I'll wait till all you early adopters pay for the bragging rights, then I'll swoop in at $250 - $300 after the initial feeding frenzies have subsided and everyone realizes that there's no HD content out there worth a crap.


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## EvanS (Mar 27, 2002)

J. Allen Head said:


> I'm sorry - I wasn't refering to Mark and Dish Depot - I was refering to Dish's price before Mark gets it in his hands.
> 
> E* will probably spike the price because everybody wants a 921 and keeps saying that they would pay 1000.00 - almost everybody
> 
> ...


IF E* spikes the price I doubt it would be because _everybody_ wants one. I have to believe that the enthusiasm we hear and spout on this board does not stretch very far into the real world. At least at this time. I can't even tell you how many people I know that are not even aware that an SD PVR exists, let alone that there are multiple vendors, let alone what a PVR does. And then throw in the multitudes that recently upgraded from thier 20" to a 32" direct view and will sit there and swear that HD looks no different than SD, except for the width... :nono:


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## J. Allen Head (Apr 21, 2002)

> Originally Posted by Inaba: *People will pay a premium for bragging rights.*


This is what I think also - and it is why I will also wait a little longer, plus the software issues I'm sure they will have at _*first*_ even though it's rumored to basicly be the same software as the 721 I'd still bet that there will be a few kinks to work out.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

All they would have to do is put the same software on the 921 and then modify it from there.


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