# SKIP FORWARD gets STUCK in a LOOP



## brad5am (Dec 22, 2006)

I think this has just started. I tape a 3hr football game so I can watch it "delayed"... starting it 45 minutes late... and quickly skip commercial breaks. Until now, I hit the 30sec skip forward button 4 times and I'm back to the action. Just this weekend it started getting "stuck" when I skip forward. I see fast forward screens but it keeps jumping back, or looping. A 3 minute skip ahead jumps me forward maybe 20 seconds. 

And when I try to skip 30 seconds between "downs", I get forward MAYBE 10 seconds. FF1, FF2 and FF3 are also held up. But only when I'm watching an event which is still being recorded. Just to compare, I flipped open a taped event and 30skip functioned properly.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I've noticed that with stuff that is semi-live. Sometimes it does that. You might want to try a red button reset. That fixes alot of issues. If it happens again you'll have to do a red button reset again.


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## brad5am (Dec 22, 2006)

I tried one red reset... does doing another within the next few minutes accomplish a more effective reboot?


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## senorgregster (Apr 29, 2006)

A few days back I saw something similar. This happens with shows (e.g. Scrubs) recorded weeks ago.



brad5am said:


> I think this has just started. I tape a 3hr football game so I can watch it "delayed"... starting it 45 minutes late... and quickly skip commercial breaks. Until now, I hit the 30sec skip forward button 4 times and I'm back to the action. Just this weekend it started getting "stuck" when I skip forward. I see fast forward screens but it keeps jumping back, or looping. A 3 minute skip ahead jumps me forward maybe 20 seconds.
> 
> And when I try to skip 30 seconds between "downs", I get forward MAYBE 10 seconds. FF1, FF2 and FF3 are also held up. But only when I'm watching an event which is still being recorded. Just to compare, I flipped open a taped event and 30skip functioned properly.


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## wolfonthehill (Jul 7, 2006)

This problem is almost un-liveable now on my unit. The 30-second skip is worthless, and the 2X FFWD goes nowhere (sometimes a net move backward, just for kicks).

My only usable options are 1X and 3X... neither of which is ideal.


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## epi (May 18, 2006)

senorgregster said:


> A few days back I saw something similar. This happens with shows (e.g. Scrubs) recorded weeks ago.


I have this problem as well. It is actually fairly consistent for live shows. It ALWAYS happens in playback of shows that are currently being recorded. It happens periodically during previously recorded shows. I have the latest update and a RBR did not help.:nono2:


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

This symptom is consistent with the possibility that the R15's CPU is overloaded. Does anyone have information for/against this notion?

Several years ago Yamaha introduced a music synthesizer costing about $2000 that had too puny a CPU. They eventually gave owners a free SCSI adapter. But, there was no way to speed up the CPU. As a result, the synthesizer never performed properly. So, the possibility that the R15's CPU power is not adequate is not out of the question. But, I sure hope it's not the case....


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> This symptom is consistent with the possibility that the R15's CPU is overloaded. Does anyone have information for/against this notion?


The CPU is way more powerful than that in, for example, the DSR6000. So what you say may well be true, but it would say more about the software than the hardware.

And I know some may consider the DSR6000 slow (I never did, but then I never used the grid style guide, either). However, from what I've heard it absolutely screams when given additional RAM (in the form of a cache card for the hard drive), so it's not particularly CPU-bound, even on a ~70 MHz PowerPC.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Walters, I understand the CPU to be a fast one as such CPUs go. As you point out, speed of the unit is determined by the speed of the CPU and the way the code was written. Based on the many functional defects we see, there's reason to believe that performance defects (i.e., CPU bottlenecks) are likely to exist in generous number. So, the blame would seem to fall more on the software than the hardware. 

Another observation that's suggestive of the CPU being underpowered relative to the demands placed on it is the time taken to re-populate the guide. We all know this is a slow process, typically taking 24-48 hours. Some members have reported that re-population completes in less time if the R15 is in standby. That observation is consistent with my notion that the CPU is barely able to handle the demands placed on it.

In the case of the Yamaha synthesizer I mentioned, I don't recall what CPU was used and what the CPU's speed was. Clearly, the engineers chose too puny a CPU. But, that CPU might well have done the job if the synthesizer code had been written differently. 

The irritating part was that the built-in demo gave no evidence of a CPU problem. Clearly, the demo had been carefully designed to sidestep CPU overload. That was the most distressing aspect of having bought the unit: knowing that the manufacturer, which had a solid reputation, had knowingly sold bad gear for top dollar. My feelings about DTV and the R15 are similar.


Cheers,


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> Another observation that's suggestive of the CPU being underpowered relative to the demands placed on it is the time taken to re-populate the guide. We all know this is a slow process, typically taking 24-48 hours. Some members have reported that re-population completes in less time if the R15 is in standby. That observation is consistent with my notion that the CPU is barely able to handle the demands placed on it.


I think that's basically because of satellite bandwidth availability. What's on "now" and "very soon" are constantly streamed, probably on all transponders (and I believe the R15 gets all that before it even passes control to the user after a reboot). Toward the end of the 14 day window, though, is trickled, possibly on few or one transponder. Putting it in standby would tell it you're not watching TV right now and that it's OK to tune to that transponder. Of course, since there's only one live buffer, I guess it could use the second tuner for that even if not in standby. In any case, it takes a DTiVo about the same amount of time to fill the guide the first time, too.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

I figure that most folks' second tuner is idle a good part of the time. If that's the case, the bandwidth explanation doesn't seem to hold up. But, I could be wrong about the utilization of the second tuner, or in some other way. That's why I'm using weak words such as "suggestive" and "consistent with."


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

It may be more likely that the data towards the end of the 14 day window is only available at the...what's the opposite of peak? Valley time doesn't sound right.  Early morning?


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

qwerty said:


> what's the opposite of peak?


In the utility industry, they use the term "off-peak." Seems as good as any.

The notion that the data is sent only occasionally doesn't seem to account for the reports that the guide populates faster when the unit is not in use. I don't recall that I've actually seen this behavior--maybe because my TV is seldom off.


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

I have this problem with an R15-300. Just started with the latest update 105F. It doesn't happen everytime, but its not rare either. I'd day it happens 50% of the time I use skip forward.

I swear, these developers can't release something without introducing new bugs.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

The problem IS the software. The R-15 has a larger processor and more ram than any DirecTiVo and they dont have the limits and work.

DirecTV pushed the R-15 to the back since the release of the HR20 and all ther new commercials touting 3 times more HD than anyone else. The HR20 is also getting all the new goodies and things we have waited 14 months for and might never get.

We were getting updates about once a month until its release. Now its been almost THREE MONTHS since my last update here in NJ.

FACT is the R-15 is also going to be phased out and replaced by another SD DVR so they are not worrying about us to much. *Just swap your R-15 for the new SD box in a couple months*. Its problems are not going to be fixed any time soon or even ever IMO.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> FACT is the R-15 is also going to be phased out and replaced by another SD DVR so they are not worrying about us to much. *Just swap your R-15 for the new SD box in a couple months*. Its problems are not going to be fixed any time soon or even ever IMO.


First, what are you basing this statement on (R15 going to be phased out)? Please show some type of reference or link that supports that statement.

Second, I think you meant to say "Just swap your R-15 for the new HD box...", unless you were referring to the hypothetical R15 replacement.

Third, DirecTV is actually doing a pretty good job of fixing R15 problems. The latest round of releases, combined with doing a reformat, appear to have most units running good.

Carl


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## ngawor (May 28, 2006)

This looping is almost constant now -- whenever we are using the 30 second skip more than once or the FFx2. It's becoming unusable. We've already done a reformat twice. It's an R15-300 with the 106C update. Any suggestions? If I contact directv, will they do anything?


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Third, DirecTV is actually doing a pretty good job of fixing R15 problems. The latest round of releases, combined with doing a reformat, appear to have most units running good.


One's personal satisfaction, or lack of satisfaction, with the R15 tends to color one's assessment of the quality of DTV''s efforts. Given that DTV has not yet publicly admitted the scope and severity of problems--in fact, some months ago, a senior exec claimed that all problems had been solved--it's hard to consider that they're doing a "pretty good job" of addressing them.

More specifically, I don't agree that an excess of 50% ("most") of units "running good" implies that DTV is doing a "pretty good job." I'd be disappointed if only 50% of units ran well during the first week following introduction of a new product. Because it's inexcusable in the first instance for such serious problems even to exist, I'm not sure that I'd apply the label "pretty good job" until unsatisfied customers were a rarity. Currently, that's far from the case. Certainly, I am not among them.

In questions such as this, measures of central tendency such as an average or even a median tend not to properly characterize the full range of experience. In the case of the R15 there are too many outliers. My own best guess is that thoroughly satisfied users are outliers with respect to the largest clusters of levels of satisfaction. But, we don't have adequate data to properly address the question.

I'll offer an analogy that may illustrate a problem inherent in Carl's claim. If the population of R15 users were represented by the human body, a statement that most body functions were fully operational would hardly be a useful definition of good health. Sight, smell, and hearing mean little if the heart doesn't beat.

Cheers,


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## brad5am (Dec 22, 2006)

I got a little lost with some of the replies in here... just wondering, is this skip-forward-loop issue something that will get fixed in a future software update?


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

brad5am said:


> I got a little lost with some of the replies in here... just wondering, is this skip-forward-loop issue something that will get fixed in a future software update?


No one knows the answer to that question. Best guess is, yes, it will be fixed. This bug is new with the latest update, so they'll likely fix what they broke in the next update. The real question is, what will break next time they fix something LOL


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## GlennCoco (May 15, 2006)

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. It's getting to be pretty unbearable right now. What's the point of DVR if I can't skip ahead?


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

Yea, I feel you Glenn. Also, trick play in general just seems like crap lately. I dunno, I think I've given up on Directv dvrs


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## blade (Sep 20, 2006)

I can confirm that I have been having this problem consistently since the most recent update (106C on R15-300) and it is highly annoying. I have RBR and done a pull plug. It does not just happen on live feeds, most of the TV I watch is recorded stuff and it happens on 75% of the time I use the skip. What used to take maybe 6 30 second skip buttons pushes now will take a lot more (it is random) as I watch the same commercial repeat over in fast motion until the skipping is done. I have contacted D* through their online support and then I get this response:

"Thanks for writing about your DIRECTV service. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having with your DVR receiver and I apologize for any frustration this issue may have caused you. Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues and it's hard to determine what causes this by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly."

I have yet to call them as I can only imagine the good time that call will bring. I'm sure I will get the usual and then a please do a reformat...


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey, I had a completely different technical problem and got exactly the same response from DTV. I get the the impression that maybe they don't read the messages all that carefully. Still, it's a good thing they have that on-line support page, huh?


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## blade (Sep 20, 2006)

So I am fed up enough with this nonsense that I actually called the number supplied by the e-mail support. Got thru to talk to someone and he claims that this is the first he has heard of this problem and double checked to see if he was right. Well that is a joke, I even told him I checked on message boards and I am not the only one with this loop issue. Well he said the best thing he could try was to "Reset to defaults" which wouldn't delete all the recordings, but would erase all the favorites and erase all the scheduled SLs, so I told him I wasn't going to do that right now because I would have to write all that down. 

He said if that doesn't work to call back their direct number to the advanced tech support line and they would see what to do from there, but he said the next step would be a reset everything, which is a format. 

Has anyone else tried either of these? If so is this still happening for you? If it is can you please call the advanced tech number here: 1 877 342 4388 and tell them, because I don't want to waste my time doing all that for nothing if someone else has already. Also he said there should be another patch going out later this month, but that would fix the First Run/Repeat issue or something, no mention of this.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

blade said:


> Has anyone else tried either of these? If so is this still happening for you? If it is can you please call the advanced tech number here: 1 877 342 4388 and tell them, because I don't want to waste my time doing all that for nothing if someone else has already. Also he said there should be another patch going out later this month, but that would fix the First Run/Repeat issue or something, no mention of this.


Been there, done that. I did a complete reformat two ways, kept my SLs under 10, crossed myself before entering the room, the whole nine yards. I still have a variety of problems.

I had one while typing this message. I set up a DVD to record a movie off the R-15. I started the record, and clicked play on the R-15. I saw the movie begin to play and turned my attention to this message. A minute or two later I could see that the movie had frozen. I hit play again--nothing. I hit FF--nothing. Knowing that I was running the risk of filling the DVD, I became desperate and hit several buttons, including RW. One of them did the trick, and play resumed. What an R-15[1]!

Cheers,

[1] To understand my reference to the term _R-15_, please see my related posting.


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## blade (Sep 20, 2006)

It looks like they are now going to send me a new R15. I told them I reformatted (even though I haven't, at least this time) and they said they haven't heard of this issue so didn't know anything else to do. I told them others on this board have this problem so it is a software issue and not the hardware (for once) but now they are just going to send out another R15. I couldn't be like oh nevermind so oh well, now I have to watch all the shows on there before I send the other back, at least they don't have to have someone come and replace. How annoying.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm willing to pay the long distance charge to talk to a DTV CSR who thinks any R-15 problem that I and another R-15 user have had is a one-off, hardware-related issue. Let's ask the next CSR who makes a statement along those lines whether he/she is willing to take a couple of dozen calls from folks on the board. I'll bet they back off really quickly. But, if not, no bluff here: I'll call and talk to anyone who'll listen.

What do you think?


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## blade (Sep 20, 2006)

I called the number I posted above and I told them the situation and that others on the board here have had the same problem and she said that she didn't find it as a known problem and the only way they know of problems is if others call and tell them. so have any of the rest of you with this problem called DTV and told them? I find it difficult to comprehend that no one has told them about this but everyone seems to be having the issue since the last update


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Blade, do you mean the following number: 1-800-531-5000? If so, do you have the name or ID of the CSR? I'll gladly call tomorrow and confirm the existence of as many problems as they're willing to take time to write down.

DTV probably doesn't exercise diligence in collecting, collating, analyzing, and publishing trouble reports. Of course, it's also possible that the CSR is lying. But, I prefer to give the CSR the benefit of the doubt. Some people will lie for their personal benefit but few will lie for their employer's benefit. I doubt that CSRs are paid a hefty bonus based on any performance metric, so CSRs seem to have no personal reason to lie.

Can we get a few more members to call? Let's have a call-fest! If we begin to stick together and _support one another actively_ rather than merely passively, we'll at least make it hard for DTV to continue playing ostrich. Sharing data and tips is great. But, we can do more.... :soapbox:
Cheers,

P.S. I hope that this sort of grassroots activism is consistent with forum rules. If not, please do advise--no disregard intended.

Cheers,


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## blade (Sep 20, 2006)

No it was 1 877 342 4388 which is the technical support number


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## GlennCoco (May 15, 2006)

blade said:


> It looks like they are now going to send me a new R15. I told them I reformatted (even though I haven't, at least this time) and they said they haven't heard of this issue so didn't know anything else to do. I told them others on this board have this problem so it is a software issue and not the hardware (for once) but now they are just going to send out another R15. I couldn't be like oh nevermind so oh well, now I have to watch all the shows on there before I send the other back, at least they don't have to have someone come and replace. How annoying.


Let us know if the new receiver has the same problems. I am getting sick of this.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

I've gotten new units at least twice. The first time I swapped, I got a real turkey and so had hardware _and_ software problems. I think that my current unit is okay as concerns hardware. But, it seems to have a boatload of software problems...

Cheers,


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## blade (Sep 20, 2006)

Well I got a new unit installed earlier last week (due to the free R15 code) and they installed a R15-100 (my problematic one was a 300) so this one so far seems to be working better (there is a newer version of the remote with it too) and it seems to work faster (no loops yet). I also got my "replacement" refurbished unit today, this one is a R15-500, haven't hooked it up yet since I have to finish watching all my shows before I send my 300 back. So I will let you know what the deal is when I get that hooked up.


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## brad5am (Dec 22, 2006)

After a few months of 'dealing' with the loop, I'm back to thinking it's freakin ridiculous. When I had a Dish Network DVR between 2003 and 2006... same unit... I NEVER had this problem. And, not to get too off topic, but 'skip forward' skipped IMMEDIATELY 30 seconds ahead, not the advertiser-friendly quick glimpse of the commercials I'm trying to avoid.

I should be able to hit the 30 sec skip 8 times and effectively advance 4 minutes ahead. Like somebody above said, this is like one of most touted features of DVRs. Oh, and has anyone found that getting the unit replaced, say after Feb 1 is solving the looping problem? Sorry for the lengthy rant!


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## blade (Sep 20, 2006)

I had a new R-15-100 installed and it doesn't have this problem ( I made sure to patch it with the most recent and then format before using it).

Then sent me a refurb r-15-500 to replace my 300 but I haven't hooked it up yet, I will give a status on that once it is hooked and running. The new 100 has been up for a week and has so far been great.


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