# Approaches to reducing 622's power usage?



## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

Has anyone figured out any successful ways to reduce the power used by the 622?

It seems like all reports are that it uses slightly over 50 watts -- continuously, on or "off". This amounts to 40 KWH per month for every one installed. Since we've worked hard at our household to reduce our electricity consumption for both the good of our pocketbook and the planet, I've delayed our request to upgrade to a 622 for a few days as I try figure out if there's anything to be done to reduce this.

Some questions:

1) Has anyone figured out a way to reduce it's electricity use?

2) If I wanted to put it on a timer or switched outlet, it brings up a few questions:
a) How fast does it boot from a "cold" start? My 508/510's seem to take a minute or two to go through all the phases.
b) When would it get the updated program information? Would it try to do it at boot time?
-- I don't care about VOD downloads (who does?).

3) Are DirecTV's receivers any better behaved in this area?

It's a shame that they didn't do a better job at automatically conserving power when the unit is "off". I realize that there may be work to do -- record shows, download program information, etc. -- but it should be able to turn off most of its circuits when there's nothing to do.

And its a shame at two different levels. At a global level, if they're successful at selling a LOT of these, this one device could be responsible for wasting megawatts of power doing nothing. At an individual level, it can add up to real $$$. For us, this one device would account for almost 10% of our monthly electricity usage. And, since we live in California where marginal electric rates can be 22 cents to 34 cents per KWH, it amounts to $8/mth or more (I guess we can view this as another one of the growing list of monthly Dish fees.)

Thanks,

Ed


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

Powering the 622 down when not in use is a bad idea. It is designed to run continuously. I ran my old DirecTivo non stop for 6 years. I doubt it was ever off for more than a few minutes the whole time and it never gave me a problem.

Its only 50 watts. Turn off a light bulb somewhere.

The cost of electricity to run the 622 is nothing after you have purchased a big plasma lcd and subscribed to Dish's HD package.

I wouldn't worry about it.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

If you have one of those home automation setups, I would imagine that you could schedule it to wake up right before it does its updates and power down an hour later. I would imagine that you could corrupt the system if it powered down at the right point during an update. Also, you would need to schedule it to be powered up when anything is set to record. You might lose the Video On Demand features because it downloads movies while the unit is "off." 

When does the unit call home? Is it after its updates?

If you get this working, let us know how it works out.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

SThor, I understand your statements, but its just not our orientation.

For example, I've specifically NOT bought a plasma because of their wattage issues. 50" models typically 500 watts or more. If you assume a 10 year lifespan, over the life of the unit you'll pay as much for electricity as you did for the screen to begin with.

It's an LCD for us since they use 1/2 the power.

I understand that today many people take a pretty cavalier toward power usage, but that will change as energy costs have nowhere to go, but up.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

The 622 is not designed to be powered off. If you have it unplugged the following will NOT work:

1) Timers to record shows 
2) Guide Updates
3) System Updates
4) Video on Demand Content

If none of this is important to you then you should probably just get a ViP211 and skip a DVR altogether.

I guess if you really wanted to you could set it up on a timed outlet that turns it on 5 - 10 minutes before your nightly update, and 5 - 10 minutes before EVERY SINGLE timer you have set on the box. The problem is you run the risk of missing timers and updates if it does not boot up correctly or if your timed outlet fails or has problems. 

Also, I would imagine that the boot process puts additional stress on the components with moving parts (i.e. fans and hard drives), like like power cycling PCs. Because of this your 622 may fail faster than others.

Long story short, I would not recommend this, while potentially doable it may end up causing more problems than it's worth. If it was me and I was that concerned about power consumption I would try and make up the difference by saving power somewhere else in the house.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

Rob,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't care about #4.

Regarding #3, I thought I sort of controlled that. On the 508/510's, I thought it only updates the software if I turn the unit "off" (i.e. "off", but still plugged in and, therefore, mostly still running). Does 622 behave differently?

Regarding #2, do you know what happens if it misses a guide update? Does it immediately try to update it when you reboot or does it do the update in the background. With two satellite tuners, I didn't know if it was smart enough to let me go on with using the set while one of the tuners is used to fetch the update.

Regarding #1, I think I understand those issues.

I realize that whatever I'm able to do, it's a poor substitute for a better designed unit that considered these issues in the first place. The 622 has the information within it to do a (much) better job of power management, but it just doesn't appear to be designed to do it. It could be a software-only issue, but is likely a hardware-and-software issue if they didn't care about the issue at the beginning.

Thanks.

Any other suggestions?


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Do you actually know how much power the 622 consumes in the sleep mode? There are functions that this machine is programmed to do that require some power at all times - do you know if the design "wastes" power? If these requirements bother you, don't get one (and make sure that you unplug all of those AC adapters around your house). You will find that, if you do a little research, that there are many other appliances that remain "powered up" when you think that they are off.

Pat


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

EHorst99 said:


> Rob,
> Regarding #3, I thought I sort of controlled that. On the 508/510's, I thought it only updates the software if I turn the unit "off" (i.e. "off", but still plugged in and, therefore, mostly still running). Does 622 behave differently?


No, it is the same. This means you will probably miss a recording, or end up having to wait half an hour or so to watch TV the first time the 622 powers up after a system update spools.



> Regarding #2, do you know what happens if it misses a guide update? Does it immediately try to update it when you reboot or does it do the update in the background. With two satellite tuners, I didn't know if it was smart enough to let me go on with using the set while one of the tuners is used to fetch the update.


Typically if your guide is over 24 hours old and you power up your receiver it will automatically start a guide update. Again, if this is an automated power on for a timer this means that you will probably miss some of the event. If the guide upload gets cancelled or fails you could end up with invalid data or no data at all. In turn causing problems with timers.



> Any other suggestions?


Just leave it on. Sorry, had to say it again. The more I think about it the more I think it's a bad idea. Just the reliance on the guide alone because of NBR. If that gets out of whack you can kiss your timers good by. Even if you setup a weekly timer, like on a 501, instead of a 'New' timer it still uses guide info and will skip the recording if the show name doesn't match in that timeslot, unlike the 501 (at least unlike the 501 when I last had one).


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

I only have a 942, not a 622, so there could be a difference in behavior. For me, nothing ever happens when you power the receiver ON after getting an update - everything completed some time after you put it in standby and the unit decided to fetch an update. The 501/508/510 receivers certainly differ from any name based receiver. The time based 508/510 has a check box (radio button?) where you can say you want to be notified about firmware updates and decide for yourself. That option is NOT present on DISH name based DVRs. DISH could always force an update if they wanted to your 508, but with a 622, you aren't given a choice about whether you should take the update. The Name based recorders have a daily reboot time you can specify and you can schedule recordings at the same time to block it, but generally the unit will check for a new download by itself with its daily update.

Guide updates are done while the unit is off (in standby actually), not when turned on out of standby. Even doing a reset may not cause a Guide download. It may check the EPG info in the receiver against the EPG info available and deem it good. It is possible to cause the Guide to be downloaded if you have kept the unit active long enough for the EPG to be out of date and you advance enough days to trigger a forced download. Doing a Switch Check will get a new EPG downloaded (as long as it isn't "current"). The dual tuners don't quietly update the EPG in the background while on using an idle tuner though. If not in standby, it really isn't idle.

A good amount of the current draw can be the LNB at the dish. That means using a watt meter on the receiver itself can give pretty different answers depending on how the unit is connected. My 942 isn't much different from a 622, but I use a separate AC-DC adapter to power my legacy SW64. The adapter draws 20 watts and the 942 draws about 30 watts (it isn't the power source for the LNB any more). A legacy SW21 powers both LNBs it connects to, even though only one needs power at a given moment. You'd need to measure the wattage drawn by a 622 in different DishPro (/Plus) configurations to see what used the least.

The 508/510 also differ from the 942/622 in that you can get the hard drive on the 5xx units to spin down and you can't with the 942/622. On my 508, it is only about 7 watts (14 in standby, 21 "on") difference. There again, the 508 isn't providing the LNB current - the power adapter is.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

CABill said:


> ... For me, nothing ever happens when you power the receiver ON after getting an update - everything completed some time after you put it in standby and the unit decided to fetch an update.


I'm not sure I understand this statement. My point about updates was, if you have a receiver unplugged, and you plug it in AND there is a newer version of code spooling the 622 will automatically start the download and install when it comes online. This process can take 20 - 30 minutes easily. This means any timers or viewing you were planning on doing at this time will not work.

In a normal scenario the receiver is always powered and will typically take the new download while in standby, therefore not impacting you.



> Guide updates are done while the unit is off (in standby actually), not when turned on out of standby. Even doing a reset may not cause a Guide download. It may check the EPG info in the receiver against the EPG info available and deem it good. It is possible to cause the Guide to be downloaded if you have kept the unit active long enough for the EPG to be out of date and you advance enough days to trigger a forced download. Doing a Switch Check will get a new EPG downloaded (as long as it isn't "current"). The dual tuners don't quietly update the EPG in the background while on using an idle tuner though. If not in standby, it really isn't idle.


Again my comments were centered around how things will work if you keep the unit unplugged when not in use. In this case the first time you plug it in after the guide data is out of date (24 hours I believe) it will automatically start a guide update. You can cancel out of it, but it you don't you'll have to wait about 5 minutes or so before you can watch TV or fire your timers.

In a normal scenario the guide is not updated while in standby, it is updated nightly when your receiver does it's nightly update.

On my 622 and back when I had a 942, running a check switch and then exiting has always initiated a guide update, whether you are out of date or not.

And yes like you indicated, guide updates are not a background process on these receivers.


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## Dish VIP (Aug 7, 2006)

We should all be very concerned about power consumption. Even it is "only 50 watts." It's the #1 thing we can do to combat excess greenhouse gases in the air.

The Dish Network ViP 622 DVR is a power hog, no doubt.

On the plus side, one box for two televisions could be considered "green."


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## Montyward (Aug 16, 2006)

Dish VIP said:


> On the plus side, one box for two televisions could be considered "green."


Exactly. I replaced the DVRs in my bedroom and loft, so my power consumption is probably about one-third what I was consuming before I got the unit.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Greenhouse gases, while they exist, I for one do not believe in global warming. There have been times in history that have been reportedly warmer than it is now before there was any industrialization. We cannot even predict the weather accurately in many cases from day to day, let alone what might happen 30-40-50 years from now.. This is one of the media's darlings.. Most of its hype, with little real fact.. And while one could argue this back and forth, finding a way to save the cost of a single light bulb's worth of energy in your 622 should be easy, lets find out what else you've done to save energy to begin with... For example..

Is your thermostat at 68 or lower in winter, 78 or more in Summer if you have AC, do you even have a set-back thermostat?

How many CFL's do you have in your home? (for perhaps the acronym impaired a CFL is a compact fluorescent lamp) If you don't have any, every light you routinely use is wasting up to 70% or more over a CFL of equal or nearly equal lumen's. 

Is your home well insulated? no matter where you live..

The list of things one might do to save the 50 watts of the 622 could be longer if given more thought, other than trying to find ways to disable it for intermittent periods to save a dime when your wasting a buck somewhere else.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Every time this comes up for discussion, I keep thinking about all the other household appliances that are probably "wasting" more electricity.

I set my heat at 65 in the winter (I like it cold anyway), and 74 in the summer. I wish I could set it higher in the summer, but I can't stand heat so I choose to pay through the nose in the summer to stay cool!

Your refrigerator runs much of the time... and during the summer, if you choose to run your house hotter (say 78 or so) to conserve on air conditioning, you should be aware this means your refrigerator will consume more electricity to stay cool! So there is some power tradeoff there.

Stoves (particularly the oven) and dryers use a lot of power too... Do you always wash/dry full loads only?

Most homes run more lights than they have to... I know I do... so turning off some of those extra lights would be helpful to save on power too.

And as someone already pointed out, any devide that has a transformer (basically almost all devices you plug in) are using electricity ALL the time whether on or off. You can feel the warmth of a wall-transformer, but sometimes the transformer is internal to your unit so you don't see/feel it but it is still there eating electricity. You'd basically have to go around the house and unplug everything when not in use to stop wasting electricity.


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## tammyandlee (Apr 22, 2002)

When we got the 622 to replace a HD D* Tivo our power bill dropped by $50 a month. We have tried to think of some other power saving thing we did or device we replaced. It all points to the Tivo. I have to wonder if something was malfunctioning and turning power into heat


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

CABill, thanks for that detailed answer. You've answered most of my questions and clarified the difference in behaviour between my 508's/510's and the 622.

Regarding normang's response... I'm going to resist predicting that for a long time you also weren't sure if smoking causes lung cancer -- perhaps not even yet. I'm just going to say that I hope you're young enough to live the next 30-40-50 years so you can look back on how off base you are about your current beliefs. There are plenty of facts available for you today if you want to look into the issue a bit.

Suffice it to say, virtually every light in our house is fluorescent -- with the last ones converted now that dimmable fluorescents are also affordable, our furnance is 97% efficient, we keep the thermostat at 68 during the winter with an automatic setback to 55 at night, we don't own air conditioning, our water heater is R16 with heat traps and insulated hot water lines, we've had a frontloading washing machine for years, we recently learned to live within the freezer space in our refrigerator and turned off our extra freezer, we ensure our computers are turned off when not in use and, through a USB-controlled power switch, automatically shut off all the other associated little energy-stealing power adapters for the printer, the speakers, the external drives, etc., and we've insulated / double-paned everything we can.

Any other suggestions, Norm?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok guys.. Since this is a support forum.. lets try and stay on the issue and avoid rat-holing into Global warming and which house is more efficient. 

So :backtotop


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## ubankit (Jan 7, 2005)

[

(And its a shame at two different levels. At a global level, if they're successful at selling a LOT of these, this one device could be responsible for wasting megawatts of power doing nothing. At an individual level, it can add up to real $$$. For us, this one device would account for almost 10% of our monthly electricity usage. And, since we live in California where marginal electric rates can be 22 cents to 34 cents per KWH, it amounts to $8/mth or more (I guess we can view this as another one of the growing list of monthly Dish fees.)

Thanks,

Ed[/QUOTE]

Guess I won't complain about our .15 KWH rates in Texas, (yeah, our rates have almost doubled since deregulation occurred a couple of years ago), I tip my hat that you can run a household on approx 400 KWH per month. I suppose you have to ask yourself if it's worth the cost/effect, maybe you can offset the extra usage by driving a little less or something to ease your mind/money. I think most of us can always trim something out of our usage/budget. For example, I could spend less time on the internet:eek2: IMO, I think the money spent on the 622 is worth it.


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## humara (Jan 12, 2007)

normang said:


> Greenhouse gases, while they exist, I for one do not believe in global warming. There have been times in history that have been reportedly warmer than it is now before there was any industrialization. We cannot even predict the weather accurately in many cases from day to day, let alone what might happen 30-40-50 years from now.. This is one of the media's darlings.. Most of its hype, with little real fact.. And while one could argue this back and forth, finding a way to save the cost of a single light bulb's worth of energy in your 622 should be easy, lets find out what else you've done to save energy to begin with... For example..


While you may not "believe" in it, I don't feel its a choice to believe or not believe in it. You probably don't believe in evolution either, right?

Do you not believe this either?

GENEVA (Reuters) - 2006 is set to be the world's sixth-warmest year since records began 150 years ago, the
World Meteorological Organization said on Thursday, offering more evidence of a trend most scientists blame on greenhouse gases.

*The ten warmest years have all occurred in the last 12 years, according to the
United Nations weather agency.*


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Ok guys.. Since this is a support forum.. lets try and stay on the issue and avoid rat-holing into Global warming and which house is more efficient.
> 
> So :backtotop


100% agree.

I didn't originally bring up the topic of global warming and was just trying to find out if anyone has successfully figured out a way to reduce the constant power usage of the 622.

I think its safe to say that no one has really figured out anything practical.

Thanks.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

[/QUOTE]

Guess I won't complain about our .15 KWH rates in Texas, (yeah, our rates have almost doubled since deregulation occurred a couple of years ago), I tip my hat that you can run a household on approx 400 KWH per month. I suppose you have to ask yourself if it's worth the cost/effect, maybe you can offset the extra usage by driving a little less or something to ease your mind/money. I think most of us can always trim something out of our usage/budget. For example, I could spend less time on the internet:eek2: IMO, I think the money spent on the 622 is worth it.[/QUOTE]

Ubankit,

We're not quite down to 400 KWH (closer to 500), but 10% was a nice round number to reference. 

California has tiered electrical pricing. The more you use, the more the additional KWHs cost. That's why I was talking about marginal (additional) electrical costs. But, if you pay attention to such things, it does give the proper incentive to people. Less than 2 years ago, we were as high as 1100-1200 KWH/month.

And it's not like we're living like we're Amish to get down to this level. We got LOTS of electronic toys -- computers, Playstations, DVRs, wireless networks, etc. We're just trying to be as creative as possible about trimming our costs and lowering our impact on the planet.

The one idea I'm toying with right now is to run the whole house off of one 622. Right now, we have 2 x 508's and 1 510. But only two of those sets are on at any one time and, with two tuners (and OTA), we might just be able to run the HDTV off of TV1 and the other two sets off of TV2.

That would also help us offset the ever-increasing Dish prices.

Regards


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Not a bad idea to use a 622 to replace your 50x receivers given you would only be using two at any given time and you are use to one tuner DVRs.... Also EHorst99.. Energy conservation is a topic that is getting more and more important in SoCal for sure. Might want to open up a thread in the OT area with what you have done to improve your energy. What devices you have found useful.


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## richbogrow (Nov 13, 2006)

EHorst99 said:


> Has anyone figured out any successful ways to reduce the power used by the 622?
> 
> It seems like all reports are that it uses slightly over 50 watts -- continuously, on or "off". This amounts to 40 KWH per month for every one installed. Since we've worked hard at our household to reduce our electricity consumption for both the good of our pocketbook and the planet, I've delayed our request to upgrade to a 622 for a few days as I try figure out if there's anything to be done to reduce this.
> 
> ...


Why?


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> Not a bad idea to use a 622 to replace your 50x receivers given you would only be using two at any given time and you are use to one tuner DVRs.... Also EHorst99.. Energy conservation is a topic that is getting more and more important in SoCal for sure. Might want to open up a thread in the OT area with what you have done to improve your energy. What devices you have found useful.


Good idea. I'll start a list over there.


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## mraroid (Jun 11, 2006)

EHorst99 said:


> Has anyone figured out any successful ways to reduce the power used by the 622?Ed


Hi. I don't have a good answer for you. I respect your point of view about trying to keep your energy costs down. It is hard to do. I try at my home. I have been able to make some changes and it is good to always keep an eye out. If you do learn any tricks for the 622, come back and post them.

mraroid


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Guess I better go turn off those 5 computers running 24-7 in my house! :lol: 
One of them is a Dell PowerEdge Server   

I'll be right back I'm going outside to hug a tree.


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## gitarzan (Dec 31, 2005)

Glad to see more discussion on this... 

My 622 uses 53 watts on or off. 

I often power it off with a wall switch at night. I can't imagine this causing any significant stress. My home built computers often get turned on and off multiple times in a day and run for years without any problems. 

As I have reported in previous posts my 622 is the most expensive appliance I have after heating and cooling. My 2001 18.1 cubic ft kitchen refridgerator uses less electricity (it doesn't run all of the time). 

With the 622 already having built in timers it ought to be a simple update to have it turn itself off and on automatically.


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## TomH (Jun 11, 2005)

How much of that 50W gets converted into heat? In the winter time that heat would contribute to the warmth of the house thus reducing the amount of energy needed to heat the house by te same amount. How does that factor in your calculation of how much it's costing for the receiver to be consuming that pwer all the time? But then in the summer it's working against the AC so it's costing even more. Not sure you can acuratly calculate how much it costs?


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Rob, I did misread your "power on" to be the button on the remote, not apply AC.

I do still observe different behavior than described though. It could be from forced conditions to test, dunno. I can't be sure it is 6 hours, but actually getting a new guide can happen a lot more often than every 24 hours. If I note how far into the future I can go in the guide and see Fri the 19th at 10PM, if I force a guide with a power button reset, it may download a guide and I can now go to 10AM on Sat the 20th. A 2nd forced power button won't give me another guide download right away, but after enough delay, it will and I can go farther in the guide (Sat at 4PM). I can also hit Select and cancel the EPG download and the guide will be populated with current and next program info (which would happen even if the EPG were downloaded) which is enough for "current timers". Moving forward in time in the guide will then prompt asking if I want to download it. I can cancel that and put the unit into standby and it will download the EPG that was canceled. Even in "regular" operation, I find the EPG will go farther into the future just by putting the receiver into standby. But only if it has been at least 6 hours since it last fetched the EPG. It could be totally controlled by how often they post a new version of the EEPG.

I don't think it is a GOOD idea to put it on a timer and power it off between 12AM and 6AM, but it would eliminate 25% of the power consumption. I'd be concerned about the effects of power cycles, but a 6AM power on would take care of anything missed at a 3AM scheduled reboot. The chances of catching a new software version are pretty small, especially if unit is put into standby prior to midnight. 

EHorst99 - great job of counterbalancing my PG&E usage. I've quite familiar the tiered rates where over 300% of baseline was $0.34648/Kwh this summer. I had 537 Kwh at that rate this past July on one of my two meters (the 3 phase 220 meter).


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Now that Dish receivers can be scheduled to check for updates, is there still a reason for them to keep the LNBs powered 24/7?

Here is EHorst99's power saving tips thread.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

EHorst99 said:


> Regarding normang's response... I'm going to resist predicting that for a long time you also weren't sure if smoking causes lung cancer -- perhaps not even yet. I'm just going to say that I hope you're young enough to live the next 30-40-50 years so you can look back on how off base you are about your current beliefs. There are plenty of facts available for you today if you want to look into the issue a bit.
> 
> Any other suggestions, Norm?


if you've already are as efficient as you say, why are you quibling over 'one' 50 watt light bulb out of the rest..

When the next ice age comes, which it will, is that the fault of global warming too? The science of all this is highly speculative and theoretical has little proof and despite what you read routinely in the media, which lies to you on a daily and routine basis, either by omission or commission, you could be shocked to learn that more scientists are not buying into global warming than those who are. Comparing smoking's effects which can be demonstrable, to determining worldwide climate change is apples to oranges.. Perhap's you'll live long enough to find out what goes on now is just one of the earth's routine cycles..


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

BobaBird said:


> Now that Dish receivers can be scheduled to check for updates, is there still a reason for them to keep the LNBs powered 24/7?


To be ready to receive activate or deactivate commands even if not "ON"? CSR: "Can you make sure all your receivers are on before I activate HBO?"

They are powered via a wall wart that is inconvenient to stop?

To get EPG changes in current/next that themselves trigger unexpected timers?

To be randomly commanded via Sat to phone home "now" once you've failed an audit?

I'm making this stuff up and outta ideas.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Not to mention searches, after a reset I believe it has to rebuild some sort of index before it let you search, That could also have been the 721 I moved, not sure. With all the gyrations it goes thru starting up. acquiring.... etc. I'm thinking it needs 5 or 10 minutes to startup?

Lets see VCR? always on (clock etc.)
DVD Changer? Has to be on or the remote couldn't turn it on.
DVD recorder? Likewise.
721? Likewise
Dishplayer? Likewise
HT Audio? likewise
Microwave? Always on (Clock runs)
Cell Phone charger? Always on
TV Sets? Always on or remote couldn't turn on.
Heating/cooling Thermostats? Always powered up
Computer no on a turned off power strip? Always on ort the low voltage power button couldn't turn on.
Cable/DSL modem/Router? Always on
Clock Radio/Clocks? Of course on.

that's just off of the top of my head. Do I want to run around turning things off and suffering delays? Nope, sorry.
Am I replacing light bulbs with fluorescents? Am I sitting here typing this on a LCD display and sitting under fluorescents? yup. DId I replace my computers monitor with a lower energy use LCD? yup
Did I replace a TV with a HDTV LCD that uses less energy? Yup. Will I replace the other main useage TV? When it dies. 

Am I using DVRs, yup my time when it comes to skipping commercials and having control over what I watch, when I watch it is more important to me than the energy they use. 

Worried about energy costs? don't forget to throw out that desktop and get a new generation laptop that uses less energy. Less features and more cost, oh well. Smaller screen too.

My guess is that in 10 years more or less it won't matter when the big crash comes.

Civilization is a house of cards built on a quicksand foundation. And that's what I think when I'm feeling optomistic.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

CABill said:


> Rob, I did misread your "power on" to be the button on the remote, not apply AC.
> 
> EHorst99 - great job of counterbalancing my PG&E usage. I've quite familiar the tiered rates where over 300% of baseline was $0.34648/Kwh this summer. I had 537 Kwh at that rate this past July on one of my two meters (the 3 phase 220 meter).


CABill,

Wow! 537 KWH at the 300% tier. I guess I'll start feeling better.

I hate paying almost 35 cents / kwh, but I really like the incentive it gives to be more deligent in reducing power usage. Since I noticed that you're in Sacramento, I'm guessing you've got Air Conditioning and, in July, that's got to suck up a lot of watts. In the Bay Area, things are naturally cool enough that we don't even own A/C.

I put a list over on the "OT" board of things that have worked for me to reduce our power usage. Some are sound quite trivial, but since they attack things that were running 24/7, it adds up.

That's why having a single satellite receiver use 40 KWH by itself is just wasteful. Even if I assume that someone in the house is using it 5 hours a day, we're still only "using" it less than 25% of the day even though its consuming electricity 100% of the time.

Good luck with your PG&E bill.

Given your location, you might be a good candidate for a photovoltaic installation. Even just a 2-3KWH system would take the edge off your electric bill.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

I had purchased a Kill-a-Watt and put in flourescents before the July bill, but the A/C did run a LOT that month. The "Heat Storm Credit" PG&E issued for those July bills was $71.56 for that meter. That covered the Oct $39.28 bill and left a $32.28 credit balance for the next month. I'm not a total pig. 

I was also in Belmont in July and KFRC (while it was still oldies) was announcing stores in the Bay Area that still had fans in stock instead of traffic reports. My sister bought 4 fans that day.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

EHorst99 said:


> SThor, I understand your statements, but its just not our orientation.
> 
> For example, I've specifically NOT bought a plasma because of their wattage issues. 50" models typically 500 watts or more. If you assume a 10 year lifespan, over the life of the unit you'll pay as much for electricity as you did for the screen to begin with.
> 
> ...


I don't care. I just got a new 50" plasma because I like the PQ and I will not compromise the performance of my new 622 in an attempt to save a miniscule amount on my electric bill.

As long as I am paying the bill its nobody else's problem.  Besides my electric bill is a lot less than one fill up of my boats 165 gal gas tank.

It is time for the government to quit telling us to use less and blocking additional sources of power. They need to get out of the way and start helping to get more power now, not figuring out how we can do with less. There is an unlimited supply of energy in the universe and a practically unlimited supply here on Earth if the luddite enviro-loons were ignored.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

sthor said:


> I don't care. I just got a new 50" plasma because I like the PQ and I will not compromise the performance of my new 622 in an attempt to save a miniscule amount on my electric bill.
> 
> As long as I am paying the bill its nobody else's problem.  Besides my electric bill is a lot less than one fill up of my boats 165 gal gas tank.
> 
> It is time for the government to quit telling us to use less and blocking additional sources of power. They need to get out of the way and start helping to get more power now, not figuring out how we can do with less. There is an unlimited supply of energy in the universe and a practically unlimited supply here on Earth if the luddite enviro-loons were ignored.


No one's trying to tell you to save a dime. Feel free to spend all that you want. You should *thank *Dish for giving you the opportunity to spend more.

And you're right about an almost unlimited about of energy here on Earth. In fact, a whole new batch of petroleum oil is being produced right now. It's due to be delivered in about 350 million years.


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## sthor (Oct 1, 2006)

EHorst99 said:


> No one's trying to tell you to save a dime. Feel free to spend all that you want. You should *thank *Dish for giving you the opportunity to spend more.
> 
> And you're right about an almost unlimited about of energy here on Earth. In fact, a whole new batch of petroleum oil is being produced right now. It's due to be delivered in about 350 million years.


Don't need it and don't need to wait that long either. Plenty of nuclear fuel available now.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Wondering off again guys.... lets keep it on topic. This topic has popped up a few times in the past and I appreciate EHorst99 thread in the OT area since I personally live in SoCal and know what a 800 dollar a month Electrical Bill looks like.

So lets stop wondering into the are we running out of energy or is global warming real rat holes. The topics are more for the OT area and take them up in there.


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## MN Wild Fan (Dec 3, 2006)

I've wroked hard too. That is why I purchased a 42 inch plasma and my VIP622. Live some. Like others said, turn down the furnace or turn off your outside lights. If you try to conserve energy by powering the 622 off you will not enjoy all that it can do.

Hay Normang,

Have you been able to see any of the Wild on 45-2 in HD?


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## JSIsabella (Oct 20, 2006)

All the other stuff aside, how do you run a house on 500 Kw Hours per month????

I do not think we are wildly excessive on our power use, and we use three times that on average per month. And that is with gas heat (94% efficient), gas hot water, gas stove. The oven, air cond, two refridgerators, a freezer, and a pool pump would make up the really big elec loads, plus I do have a full woodworking shop that makes the meter spin when I power up those tools.

But even with all that, we are charged a total amount of $0.125 per Kwh, so that brings the bill in under $200 / month. Seems more than worth it to me for living in the 21st century.

So my monthly charge for the 622 is $5.00, assuming the 40 KwH figure is correct. If Dish did not charge me the $5.00 for the local stations just to get the EPG, I would be even!!!!


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

CABill, I thought of the activation stream problem after I posted but let it stand since I figured there could be more answers that would help us understand what the receiver does, or needs to be ready to do, when it is "off."

One thing it doesn't need to do is generate video output. This is a problem that goes all the way back to at least the 4000. I have a JVC VCR (now out of use) with the (IIRC) RecordLink feature that starts recording when it detects a signal on the A/V input. The 4000 would turn on, a picture would appear, but recording didn't start. Turns out it's because the video signal didn't turn on - it was never off! What I thought was no signal was actually a generated black screen. While the screen saver makes it obvious the unit is in stand-by, "no signal" does the same and saves more screens. Does it help anybody or their equipment? (_Edit_: probably better fits the Screen saver burn-in thread)

Just looking for every little bit to help keep my bill down and my little bit is times 3. I understand a lot of things draw power even when off, but it's usually just a small fraction to retain settings or watch for a remote signal. With 13,000,000+ of us, many with more than one receiver all dawing nearly full power 24/7 even in stand-by, that's a lot of wasted energy.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

EHorst99 said:


> ...
> 
> For example, I've specifically NOT bought a plasma because of their wattage issues. 50" models typically 500 watts or more. If you assume a 10 year lifespan, over the life of the unit you'll pay as much for electricity as you did for the screen to begin with. ...


Are you confusing the Plasma's Power rating with it's average or typical power consumption? I see people doing that all the time with Receivers... figuring, say, five channels at a 100 Watts each. Indeed, the average power is closer to 10 Watts even in a large room.

I'll do some measurements of my 622's actual power consumption over the next few days.


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

SaltiDawg said:


> Are you confusing the Plasma's Power rating with it's average or typical power consumption? I see people doing that all the time with Receivers... figuring, say, five channels at a 100 Watts each. Indeed, the average power is closer to 10 Watts even in a large room.
> 
> I'll do some measurements of my 622's actual power consumption over the next few days.


I'd be interested in your report on the 622. A couple other people have reported pretty specifically that theirs use 53 watts -- on or off.

Regarding Plasma vs. LCD power... I was reporting what the specs report. The plasma probably modulates a bit as screen brightness changes much like a conventional cathode ray tube does (there are similarities). But, if you measure a CRT, the power usage only varies by a few watts. The LCD would likely remain constant since it's basically a fluorescent light that's always full-on with the LCD letting varying amounts, too.

If you've got a plasma, measure that, too.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

Already discussed previously (with no consensus) would be getting an option to let the user select "Spin down the disk when possible". This thread has taken tangents already so I'm not suggesting repeating all those advantages and disadvantages. Doing it on the 508 only drops 7 Watts.

I do remember my 4000 putting out a black screen instead of "nothing". If they switched to no output when off NOW, they'd get a ton of calls about TV's saying "No Input" and it not being intuitively obvious that Select in Sat mode would provide the needed Input. If you took away the Select (eventhough nothing would say to hit Select any longer) and required end users to use the Power button to turn it on, the CSR calls would increase even more. Once N million people are used to something being a certain way, it's lots harder to change it. Maybe a single "Power Saver" checkbox with a disclaimer that there was a $2 fee to phone a CSR if your problem could be rectified by undoing the Check Box? DISH just LOVES fees and might just go for it. 

I'd still be curious about the different current used by a 622 connected to two lines with SW21s to Twins and a side Dual, compared to the same receiver using DP34, and again to a single leg of a DPP Twin and a separator. It would seem to me that the DPP Twin and a separator would actually use less current than two Legacy connections. Speculation w/o measurement.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

tammyandlee said:


> When we got the 622 to replace a HD D* Tivo our power bill dropped by $50 a month. We have tried to think of some other power saving thing we did or device we replaced. It all points to the Tivo. I have to wonder if something was malfunctioning and turning power into heat


Not a chance that the Tivo was costing $50/mth. I'm sure that there was a change in weather or something.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

EHorst99 said:


> I'd be interested in your report on the 622. A couple other people have reported pretty specifically that theirs use 53 watts -- on or off.
> ...
> 
> If you've got a plasma, measure that, too.


I am actually in the process of measuring power consumption on my 942. Will try to get my wife to allow me to measure power consumption on her 622 and plasma.

Will advise... I suspect my results will mirror those already reported. The isue I have with some posts is that they are confusing power *rating* with power *usage.*


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Hate it for you west coast guys.
We don't sweat power bills down here


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It varies a little for me... but I usually have two months (one in early Spring and one in early Fall) where I have a $50 or less bill while I'm not running heat or air for about a month each season-change... Those are nice bills!

Winter hits hard for at least one, maybe two months... and Summer hits hard for a couple too... but I can cut back my heat in the winter and use extra blankets on the bed... Summer kills me if I don't have the AC cranked, so that's where I choose to spend most of the budget power-wise.


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

EHorst99 said:


> CABill,
> 
> Wow! 537 KWH at the 300% tier. I guess I'll start feeling better.
> 
> ...


Where in SoCal is electricity .35 per Kwh. I can't find any over .15, are you being hosed or what?


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

langlin said:


> Where in SoCal is electricity .35 per Kwh. I can't find any over .15, are you being hosed or what?


Can't speak for Southern California, but Northern California (PG&E) current rates per kilowatt are:

TOTAL RATES

Total Energy Rates ($ per kWh) 
Baseline Usage $0.11430
101% - 130% of Baseline $0.12989
131% - 200% of Baseline $0.22944	(R)
201% - 300% of Baseline $0.32146	|
Over 300% of Baseline $0.36969	(R)

Baseline amounts are around 300 kWh per month.

It's actually more complicated than this since there are several different options like time-of-day pricing and seasonal pricing, but you get the idea.

The guy above that used a staggering 3.2 MEGAwatt-hours in one month would have a very sobering bill in California.

Eventually, the rest of the country will see similar rates as the rest of the planet continue to "Westernize" and use their share of the world's power (most notibly China and India). Energy costs have no where to go, but up.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

> Eventually, the rest of the country will see similar rates as the rest of the planet continue to "Westernize" and use their share of the world's power (most notibly China and India). Energy costs have no where to go, but up.


Not here! The majority of our power comes from Water!


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

MN Wild Fan said:


> I've wroked hard too. That is why I purchased a 42 inch plasma and my VIP622. Live some. Like others said, turn down the furnace or turn off your outside lights. If you try to conserve energy by powering the 622 off you will not enjoy all that it can do.
> 
> Hey Normang,
> 
> Have you been able to see any of the Wild on 45-2 in HD?


While I don't watch it routinely.. I have seen some of the games in HD.. Though not recently..


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

And I've seen my brothers bill, he got his Gas and Electric usage way down here in Central Jersey.....

The extortionist Delivery charges were the bigest part of his bill.

From what I'm seeing with delivery charges being what they are a all electric house may end up costing less.


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## merklebob (Nov 28, 2006)

turning on and off of electronics lead to a shorter life. the inrush of power is really hard on electronic. you may save a few cents by turning off the reciever but in the long run you may have to replace it.


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## minnow (Apr 26, 2002)

EHorst99 said:


> CABill, thanks for that detailed answer. You've answered most of my questions and clarified the difference in behaviour between my 508's/510's and the 622.
> 
> Regarding normang's response... I'm going to resist predicting that for a long time you also weren't sure if smoking causes lung cancer -- perhaps not even yet. I'm just going to say that I hope you're young enough to live the next 30-40-50 years so you can look back on how off base you are about your current beliefs. There are plenty of facts available for you today if you want to look into the issue a bit.
> 
> ...


I would opine that with your proclivity for energy consumption, you will never be happy with the power consumption issue on the 622 and if you get this unit, will always be caught by other household members glaring at this box in a far away stare picturing the wheel in your electric meter whirring in a circular manner at an unnerving pace. Keep your sanity and stay far, far away from the 622.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

EHorst99 said:


> Has anyone figured out any successful ways to reduce the power used by the 622?
> 
> It seems like all reports are that it uses slightly over 50 watts -- continuously, on or "off". This amounts to 40 KWH per month for every one installed. Since we've worked hard at our household to reduce our electricity consumption for both the good of our pocketbook and the planet, I've delayed our request to upgrade to a 622 for a few days as I try figure out if there's anything to be done to reduce this.
> 
> ...


Ed,

Most Televisions, VCR's, DVD's, Audio Receivers use Current even when "Powered Down" in fact almost all Current Electronic devices use Electric Current whether on or off.

Now with all that said all DBS receivers use relatively the same amount of Current whether "Powered up" or in "Standby", except for DBS DVR's and they will use slightly more power when their Hard Drives are spun up, (during software updates, Guide Updates, Recording events).

A 622 uses 50 watts that is 1.2 Kilowatt Hours per day, which at .10 Kilowatt hour equals 12 cents per day, so 30 days X 12 cents per day and we get $3.60 per month of electricity, even if you pay 22 cents per kilowatt hour part of the time and your monthly electric bill for just powering your 622 is $8.00 per month I suggest that you either give up HD television or your daily $5.00 coffee twice during the month.

Remember that your Clock on the wall uses Power too, if you unplugged it, it would still tell the proper time twice a day;>)

In the end I understand you want to reduce your energy footprint, Bike to work one day per month, ask if you can work from home Once per week, Purchase and replace all of your Incandescent Bulbs with Compact Flourescent Bulbs, Check your Cars Tire Pressures at least once per month, Replace your Washing Machine with a Front Loader, consider replacing your Vehicle with a more energy efficient model,
Hang your Clothes (when possible) outside to dry instead of using your Dryer (one load with use more energy than your VIP622's Monthly usage).

Personally I work at home, I replaced all my Light Fixture bulbs (business and Home) with CF bulbs, I dumped my older inefficient Washer and Dryer, I replaced windows through out my Home and rental property, as well as added Insulation. All of these things have significantly reduced my energy footprint, and I REFUSE to castrate my DVR just to save any more another $3.60 (or less) per month in energy. BTW I live in New York and I pay the variable Electric rates and my current rate is .05 per kilowatt/hour.

I'm also considering some form of alternate renewable energy. Not so much that I want to lower my Bill but to use less Grid Power than causes more pollution and Carbon Emissions.

Lastly my Avatar is my Boat which I agree is a very big energy user, but it is more of a Home Away from home. My Gas savings from NOT driving to work more than offset my energy consumption for the few summer months that I use it.

John


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

But the answer to the question he asked is very specific, even if most of us think it is not necessary to do so.

To save the most power, disconnect the power when Not in use. Make sure to power it up enough of the time when you are not using it to make sure it 

1) dials out once or month or so
2) downloads the guide days. Force the download if necessary
2) record any shows you want to record.


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## mraroid (Jun 11, 2006)

tnsprin.....

What is a dish 6000? Will it support HD? I am looking for dish options, but the 6000 is a new one for me.

Thanks

mraroid


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## smackman (Sep 19, 2006)

tammyandlee said:


> When we got the 622 to replace a HD D* Tivo our power bill dropped by $50 a month. We have tried to think of some other power saving thing we did or device we replaced. It all points to the Tivo. I have to wonder if something was malfunctioning and turning power into heat


Surely you jest!:grin: This is a joke I assume.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

mraroid said:


> tnsprin.....
> 
> What is a dish 6000? Will it support HD? I am looking for dish options, but the 6000 is a new one for me.
> 
> ...


It supports HD but not Mpeg 4.

Receivers that have been released by dish for HD
1) 5000 with HD adapter. Output ATSC signals that had to be input to a seperate HDTV/ATSC receiver. No longer works with any Dish HD signals.
2) 6000 originally did HD but will no longer work for HD without a internal adapter. The adapter was sold(and eventually given away) to allow it to work with Dish's current Mpeg2 HD programs. Another adapter(similarly sold/given away) does OTA.
3) 811 which only works with Mpeg2 and ota. No adapters were required
4) 921. Their first HD DVR. Mpeg2 and OTA
5) 942. Their second HD DVR. Mpeg2 and OTA.
6) 411/Vip211. Their current mpeg4 receiver. May be able to do VC-1.
7) ViP622. Their current mpeg4 DVR receiver. May be able to do VC-1.

Note they will no longer enable HD for users who do not have an MPEG4 capable receiver.
Several new models have recently been shown and will be coming soon.


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## mraroid (Jun 11, 2006)

tnsprin said:


> It supports HD but not Mpeg 4.
> 
> Receivers that have been released by dish for HD
> 1) 5000 with HD adapter. Output ATSC signals that had to be input to a seperate HDTV/ATSC receiver. No longer works with any Dish HD signals.
> ...


Thank you. I am saving this email. This info is hard to find in one compact email.

mraroid


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## EHorst99 (Jan 10, 2007)

JohnL said:


> In the end I understand you want to reduce your energy footprint, Bike to work one day per month, ask if you can work from home Once per week, Purchase and replace all of your Incandescent Bulbs with Compact Flourescent Bulbs, Check your Cars Tire Pressures at least once per month, Replace your Washing Machine with a Front Loader, consider replacing your Vehicle with a more energy efficient model,
> Hang your Clothes (when possible) outside to dry instead of using your Dryer (one load with use more energy than your VIP622's Monthly usage).
> 
> John


John,

I think you missed some of my earlier postings where we talked about all the things that we've already done including...

Virtually every light in our house is fluorescent -- with the last ones converted now that dimmable fluorescents are also affordable, our furnance is 97% efficient, we keep the thermostat at 68 during the winter with an automatic setback to 55 at night, we don't own air conditioning, our water heater is R16 with heat traps and insulated hot water lines, we've had a frontloading washing machine for years, we recently learned to live within the freezer space in our refrigerator and turned off our extra freezer, we ensure our computers are turned off when not in use and, through a USB-controlled power switch, automatically shut off all the other associated little energy-stealing power adapters for the printer, the speakers, the external drives, etc., and we've insulated / double-paned everything we can.

I appreciate your motivation even though you're only paying 5 cents per KWH. It not (just) about the money savings.

BTW: I think you're a bit off in your analysis where you equated one load of drying clothes to entire monthy of having the 622 spinning away. I can guarantee you than no load of laundry takes 40 KWH to dry. Or, let me say, if you DO have dryer that uses that much energy, it's in your interest to go out and replace it yet today. 

Thanks,

Ed

PS. It sounds like there were no really good suggestions on how to get the 622 to use less electricity other than to turn it off when it's not being used. Unfortunately, that would greatly complicate things such as using the DVR to record at random times. The frustrating thing is that the device has stored inside of it all the information it needs to make a MUCH efficient use of electricity -- lazy engineering just kept them from doing it. ("Let's leave the disk spinning all of the on the off chance that the software might need to use it.")

PPS. There's a dialog going on over at the "OT" board around ideas to save energy. Feel free to join and review that.


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## Guitar1969 (Oct 19, 2006)

EHorst99 said:


> Has anyone figured out any successful ways to reduce the power used by the 622?
> 
> It seems like all reports are that it uses slightly over 50 watts -- continuously, on or "off". This amounts to 40 KWH per month for every one installed. Since we've worked hard at our household to reduce our electricity consumption for both the good of our pocketbook and the planet, I've delayed our request to upgrade to a 622 for a few days as I try figure out if there's anything to be done to reduce this.
> 
> ...


I totally believe in conserving energy, but it really isn't a large amount of power - like having a light bulb on - Its the cost of having the latest in technology. That being said, I think it was designed poorly - look at the temps it runs - My high temp is 137 degrees , average temp is 117 - and I have a laptop cooler on it


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

Something I just discovered about the high temp of the 622... I had mine in a cabinet with about 2" of clearance on top and on each side, open in the front. I was running an average temp of 129. I recently increased the space above it to about 5 clear inches, everything else the same. My average temp is now down to 109! Apparently, the 622 really likes its free air circulation.

As for the 50 watt power consumption, replace one 100 watt incandesant bulb with a compact florescent and you'll save more than that. Well, to be fair, as long as you were leaving that light on all the time.


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