# Best Buy Bargain TOMORROW ONLY!!



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Western Digital 75 Gig hard drive + 256Meg SDRAM $49.99 after rebates Friday until Noon. Minimum 25 per store. Stay away from the new Vero Beach store so that I can get one. :lol:


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Anyone would be lucky to get one of those. I tried the Best Buy Friday after Thanksgiving thing last year and never again. Even if you get the item you want, you have to spend 2 hours in line at the checkout. Just not worth the time. Also, you need to pay $150 up front just to wait for 2 months to get a $100 rebate.


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## TopCat99 (Nov 3, 2002)

Thanks Chris. You just saved me aggravation I don't need at 6 am 

This would be a really sweet deal if it involved *instant* rebates. I guess that would turn BB into a Furby riot tho :lol:


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Chris Blount _
> *Anyone would be lucky to get one of those. I tried the Best Buy Friday after Thanksgiving thing last year and never again. Even if you get the item you want, you have to spend 2 hours in line at the checkout. Just not worth the time. Also, you need to pay $150 up front just to wait for 2 months to get a $100 rebate. *


Exactly ... I don`t even like to shop at B.B. on a weekend day, I simply stroll in on a Mon/Tues or Wed and enjoy tons of shopping space for my pleasure 

Also, once you are a registered customer of B.B., you will receive discount ( usually 10% ) coupons via mail that are good for specific weekends ( Friday - Monday ) and that makes for a good deal on anything without the long, long lines.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Just for kicks I went into Best Buy this morning while helping my wife shop next door. Sure enough, 5 minutes after the store opened, the hard drives were gone and the line was all the way around the inside of the store. I walked right out.

The deal was $159 up front including an instant rebate and then a mail in rebate for $109.


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

I don't see a problem with mail in rebates. So, just because you don't want to have to wait 8-10 weeks, people won't participate in a rebate that will save them $109?

Now, waiting in line for an hour, just to see they are out of stock...THAT I understand! Let me guess...no rainchecks either?!!!!!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

They were out of stock by the time I got there this morning. A bunch of you guys must have driven to Vero Beach just to beat me to them. :lol: They had plenty of the free CD-R's that were in the same ad, but I couldn't see waiting in line for an hour for 150 free CD-R's. They are on sale all over the place now for free, so why wait. Another tempting item was the Toshiba laptop on the last page of the flyer at $649. If it came with a CD-R rather than the DVDROM drive I might just have made the jump. It's on sale through Saturday, so I might still be tempted.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

I bought one of these...

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/3306462/


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Well, I went back to buy that 256 Meg memory that they also have on sale, and, looking behind the service counter I see four of the "out of stock" drives. I ask about them and the fellow states that they mistakenly told some folks this morning that they were out of stock because they sold out of another memory product, not the one in the bundle (a store that has been open for one week is getting trial by fire). So I asked if I could still get the deal. He handed me the drive and the memory and sent me around the corner to speak to a customer service type. After explaining my situation, the CS type spoke to the next level up and got the ok to do the deal. I am now a proud owner of the 75Meg drive and the 256 Meg memory. The project for this evening will be to do the install. If I don't show up in the next few days, I either messed up the computer or electrocuted myself. :lol:


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

What type of memory were they including as part of the bundle? Was it just one exact type chip (which would not fit on many machines?) Or was it any 256MB chip a specific vendor made?

I have SDRAM PC133 in my 1GHz machine (full anyway). DDR PC2100 in the 2GHz machine and RDRAM PC800 in the 2.4GHz, those could use extra memory... But looking at the prices of the DDR and the RDRAM I'm assuming it is SDRAM PC133 or so...


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I am not really up on chips, but it is a brand name of RK-Byte 32x64-PC133. I haven't tried installing yet, but they claim it will work for my 733Mhz about 2.5 year old machine just fine.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

my wife and I were at BB this morning at 6:50 am. we got the items we wanted in 10 minutes and we walked out of the store at 7:59  rather a long line to pay but we and everyone else were in good moods so it wasn't too bad! A very successful BF shopping day all in all, AND we got to see Harry Potter as well!

John


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

That was gone by 8:30 at both of the stores within 8 miles of me.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

You guys are better than I... Best Buy before Christmas always brings the best out of me.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rking401 _
> *I am not really up on chips, but it is a brand name of RK-Byte 32x64-PC133. I haven't tried installing yet, but they claim it will work for my 733Mhz about 2.5 year old machine just fine. *


It says PC133, to thats what I assume. That would work on my Dell 1 GHz, probably safe bet for anything below 1GHz.

Depending on the type of system if might work on machines up to 2.0 GHz. The closer to 2.0 GHz the less chance it would work unless they were Celeron instead of Pentium4 or they were Pentium4 "Economy" machines using the older motherboards and memory to save money (kind of wasting much of the power in the process)

Just about any machine built today (not Economy Model) would use faster memory


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Ok guys, I now have the new disc drive, but, the computer that I want to put it into (this one) already has two hard drives installed, a single partition 20 Gig drive and a 2 partition 30 gig drive (15 gig/partition). I have no spare power or signal cables for a third drive. Are there "splitters", adaptors or other types of cables of some kind that I can get my hands on to install the new drive?


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

How many CD/DVD's do you have? You can combine a CD/DVD on the same cable as a hard drive. Now, if you have 2 CD's and 2 Hard drives already, I'm not sure what you can do.

Except maybe copy one of the existing drives to the other existing drive. Then take one out and put the new drive in. But I gotta ask...what are you storing that you need more than 50GB? I'd pop that 75GB in a DishPlayer, if you have one.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

One CD-RW, two hard drives. I have a bunch of music on the two drives that are in there now. I may just end up doing cd-r copies of everything I need to keep and deleting one of the smaller drives to put the new one in. I plan to use some of the space on the new one to back up my main drive. I guess it will be a mirror of my main drive when all is done.

I have no dishplayer, just an old D-VHS.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

You can only have 4 internal IDE devices (Hard Drives, CD Drives, Zip Drives, etc) on your typical Home PC. So if you are correct, you can fit one more in the system. External USB/Firewire drives may be your saving grace in the future as the limitations are not there)

Probably your configuration looks like this...

You have your Primary Controller, with your first Hard Drive as Master

You have your Secondary Controller, with your CD Drive as Master

And your 2nd drive is a slave on one of the controllers (If your 2nd drive is on the same cable as your 1st drive it is slave on primary controller, if it is on same cable as CD drive, it is slave on secondary controller.)

Theorhetically there is nothing preventing you from using a 3rd drive. If there are not enough power connectory, you can goto Radio Shack or comp-usa and get a Y-Splitter so that you have enough connectors

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=864722

If the ribbon cable with only one drive on it does not have a spare connector on it, you will need to replace the IDE ribbon cable with a 2 connection ribbon cable (one may have come in the box with the new drive???)...

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50130353

[Always Remember the side of the ribbon cable with the Red coloring on it lines up with Pin #1 on the drives and the motherboard]

But here are some considerations... I had a MINI-TOWER Dell and it literally did not have enough room for a 4th device. So while I was able to install the spitter and ribbon cable, I had no place to mount it. I used some twist ties to tie it down to an inapporiate place, and it worked, but it was not a very wise thing to do.

In addition, your Power Supply may not be able to handle the additional drive? You will know pretty quickly if you plug everything in and the power cuts off on the machine (I think that is a rarity, most power supplies today should be able to handle 4 IDE devices (also depends on how many cards you have in the slots, etc)


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Thanks for the lesson. I picked up a new ribbon cable at BB today, and will dig into the system again tomorrow (I hope). I think all will work, but will just take a bit more work than I expected it to. I have the memory installed, not that I notice any real difference, but considering the price I couldn't resist the combo deal.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Don't forget the magnets! Great for keeping the ribbon cable pinned to the hard drive while you are working on it. Best to get really strong magnets so that they really stick. :grin:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Do you think if I used the old 30 pound bulk tape eraser from my studio days that it would work in place of the magnets? It was great at erasing 2" thick audio tape. I could just plug it in and weight everything down with it. Do you think the flux field would help? :lol:


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Frapp _
> *<snip>Also, once you are a registered customer of B.B., you will receive discount ( usually 10% ) coupons via mail that are good for specific weekends ( Friday - Monday ) and that makes for a good deal on anything without the long, long lines. *


Well .....

Came home on Saturday and my 10% discount coupons for next weekend had indeed arrived from B.B. in the mail. Now I open the Sunday B.B. sales paper and see the DVD player / recorder I want has also dropped in price to $799.00.

So, the player I told Santa to buy me was $899.00, now $799.00 and another 10% can be saved from that if purchased next weekend.

Looks like it`s going to be a GOOD Christmas for the Frapp


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Frapp _
> *
> 
> Well .....
> ...


Yeah, I know what you mean Frapp. Those new coupons are already burning a hole in my pocket. Can't wait until next weekend. I would also love to get that Phillips DVD recorder but just don't have the funds right now. A couple of months back I saw an open box deal on the recorder for $599. I should have grabbed it when I had the chance.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rking401 _
> *Do you think if I used the old 30 pound bulk tape eraser from my studio days that it would work in place of the magnets? It was great at erasing 2" thick audio tape. I could just plug it in and weight everything down with it. Do you think the flux field would help? :lol: *


Basically anything that plugs into a 220 volt outlet works best!


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

220, 221... whatever it takes.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Chris Blount _
> *Yeah, I know what you mean Frapp. Those new coupons are already burning a hole in my pocket. Can't wait until next weekend. I would also love to get that Phillips DVD recorder but just don't have the funds right now. A couple of months back I saw an open box deal on the recorder for $599. I should have grabbed it when I had the chance. *


Uh-OH ....

Why do I have the feeling we are about to see a new logo ( with a link to the B.B. DVD player web site ) on the main DBSTALK page labeled ...........Admin Stocking Fund :lol:


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rking401 _
> *Thanks for the lesson. I picked up a new ribbon cable at BB today, and will dig into the system again tomorrow (I hope). I think all will work, but will just take a bit more work than I expected it to. I have the memory installed, not that I notice any real difference, but considering the price I couldn't resist the combo deal. *


Now the big issue is how is the existing drive (on the controller with the available connection for the new drive) configured. If both drives are configured for cable select, depending on which device is connected to which connector on the cable one will be the master (Typically Black connector = master, Grey = slave, if you are lucky to have colored connectors) Be careful, as you don't want this new drive to replace the Master, you want to add it as a slave. Hopefully the existing drive is setup hard configured as MASTER. And then all you have to do is set the new drive up with the jumpers as Slave. Some drives drive you crazy because they have jumper settings that say (Master with No Slave or Master with Slave) It can all be confusing. Some drives have it easily marked, others have it almost invisible and displayed opposite than the pins are laid out so you have to sit there and figure out wich way is up.

There is no rhyme or reason as to if they will be hard coded as Master or Cable Select. It was up to the tech that built the system. I hate cable select because sometimes the way the drives are laid out, cable select only allows me to do the opposite that I want. With Hard Coded master or slave, whatever gets the drives connected is good enough.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

True, but Cable Select when properly done makes you life easier, but not if you switch the drives out often.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

INstead of magnets I always favor drilling holes in my cables and drives and using the case screws to keep them attached. Really cleans up the inside of the case well!


(TIC)
John


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

And provides ventilation right?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Basically anything that plugs into a 220 volt outlet works best!


Maybe the simplest solution is to just plug the computer into the 220 line. Would that make it run twice as fast? What do you think? :lol:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> INstead of magnets I always favor drilling holes in my cables and drives and using the case screws to keep them attached. Really cleans up the inside of the case well!


Ok, now that I have done that, what do you do with the sharp screw tips that stick through to the outside of the case? Do you just file them down? Maybe I shouldn't have used those 3" wood screws I had sitting around here.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Well you'd have to switch the power supply over to 220v first. Otherwise...


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

To Prevent Icing and Snow Fade, I like to spray the inside of my PC liberally with PAM. Lemon Flavor makes the whole PC room smell like the Kitchen


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> To Prevent Icing and Snow Fade, I like to spray the inside of my PC liberally with PAM


That would be a silly thing to do, I live in Florida.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Now if you lived in Artic North Georgia (It got below freezing last night), it would be warranted


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

Actually it is 170Vif you are using 120VRMS. 

We use 120V because that is what was picked when there was no thought that you would haul something electric across the ocean. It is also safer.

I once talked to someone who was in an area of Canada where they had 12Hz (or what is 20?) power. He said that you could actually see the lights dim and brighten.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

One time in a desperate need to get some very specific workstations for a corporate classroom, our supplier found them in Mexico (had a M in the model number instead of U for US). Of course when I went to plug them in they would not power up. Only stumbled on the fact that the little brown switch on the power supply was not set to the usual setting (forgot what the two options were) I flipped the switch, plugged them back in, crossed my fingers and powered up and it all worked fine. I was told if it would have been the other way around I probably would have fried the machine and blown a circuit just by plugging them in and powering up the first time???


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

Yeah, sent a server to Aberdeen Scottland, no one flipped the switch. ZAP!!!!


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

> No silly, it wouldn't affect it at all. 99.999% of computer power supplies are designed to be fully functional at 220/240. Remember, most of the world's household power is either 220 or 240VAC RMS.


Zac, didn't you see this was a joke? You could play along once in a while... might improve your perception around here a bit.


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> *"Actually it is 170Vif you are using 120VRMS. "
> 
> And I wouldn't say it's any safer. If it was safer, less people would die of electric shock. I've never heard of this. At the same amperage, there is less current (wattage), yes. But I wouldn't say that inherently makes it safer in a typical household application as both are, for all practical purposes, completely safe.
> ...


If you have been bit by 220V and 120V you wouldn't agree. Properly applied, they are just as safe, but 220 hurts more.

Amperage is current. We aren't talking about a constant power application. At twice the voltage, there is twice the current. Current is what does the damage.


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

I'm not an expert, but you are wrong about half the current. 220volt 30amp (for instance, the circuit that runs your dryer) is built with 2 110volt 30amp circuits... 2 hot wires, 1 neutral, 1 ground.

You can kill yourself grabbing on to 120 or even less, but your chances of being killed by 220v are greater because of the increased current.... it would be much harder to pull yourself off of.

Furthermore... the amount of current on the line is dependent on the connected load. If you hang a clamp meter (amperage) on the hot leg of a 120-volt circuit with nothing connected to it, you will read 0 amps. If you connect a constant load to the circuit, your meter will read what the device is using. The amp rating on the circuit breaker is indicative of the load the breaker will allow through before it trips.. not exactly what that line is capable of holding before the breaker.

I harped on you before about the jokes, but this isn't a joking matter we are discussing.... not knowing the correct information about this stuff will get you badly hurt or killed.


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## Ric (Apr 26, 2002)

So now when I go to Best Buy tomorrw, I want to make sure I get the cheap laptop that has the magnets already inserted, wood screws, and the ability to electrocute me at both 120 and 220, right? PAM is optional but since I am near the arctic tundra of North Georgia it's needed.
Just making sure I followed this thread right and staying on top of the latest technologies!


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Ric _
> *Just making sure I followed this thread right and staying on top of the latest technologies!  *


Oh, I guess we forgot to discuss which is better, Tin Foil Underwear or Tin Foil Hats? I prefer the Hats, with the underwear chafing and all...


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

Zac... don't you live in America?

I thought so.


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

Ric... be sure to stand in your shower with the water running when you hook up the power!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

You mean you guys have been joking all along? What should I do with all those nails sticking through my case now?


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Zac, we are the largest economy in the world.... Anything we do is standard.


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> *No, I'm not if you'll read my post. Let's think of your body as a lightbulb. If you consume a maximum of 440 watts of power (WARNING! - a made up number - not what your body will actually consume!!!), than amperage at 220RMS will be 2 amps, and it will be 4 amps at 110RMS (which is close enough to 117). Therefore, like I said, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL (and it isn't) - twice the voltage means half the current for the same power consumption. *


If you put 220V across a 100W light bulb, it will try to be a 200W bulb for a short time.

Your watts consumed model is completely wrong. Your body is a basically a big resistor. At 60Hz capacitive and inductance effects are negligible. The actual resistance will vary depending on a myriad of factors- where the voltage is introduced, humidity, etc. Thus, by ohm's law, current, I=V/R (Impedance is about equal to resistance). Current at twice the voltage is doubled.



> *
> 
> PART 2 - (and I tried to explain this) - your body doesn't work like that. Higher voltages enable it to consume more electricity, upping the wattage, and therefore the current. So the current won't be half, in fact it WILL actually be greater (which I said).
> 
> ...




Perhaps the body acts like a varistor, but not in a predictable manner. I would love to see your "complex" mathematics.



> *
> 
> Part 3 - What you said about the dryer circuit is only half correct. In the UNITED STATES (and Canada/Mexico and I dunno about Japan) that is correct. You have 2 hot wire 180 degrees out of phase creating 240 VAC RMS. And a ground/neutral. You don't have a seperate neutral traditionally, though about half a decade ago (not sure exactly when) the NEC was changed and you now do. Most houses do NOT. It simply isn't necessary (though it's a good thing safety-wise). The traditional "neutral" is the other hot wire running out of phase. But again, that is only in America (and the few copycat places). That's not standard wiring. Most countries have a single-phase, 220V RMS hot wire, and a ground-potential neutral. *


The traditional neutral is not a hot wire, it is a grounded conductor at 0V. Physically, there is no difference between a neutral and a ground. The neutral is intended to carry the return current and is sized as such. A ground should only carry current in a fault condition.



> *
> The reason I said 120V RMS isn't safer than 220V RMS (remember it's not REALLY 120 volts or 220 volts, that's just the EFFECTIVE voltage, actual voltage is variable on a sine wave) (and it isn't) is because NEITHER ONE IS DANGEROUS WHEN CORRECTLY USED. *


I am talking about when it is incorrectly used. I am also not saying that 220V is some scourge that need to be obliterated. 120V, is on the margin, safer.


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> *"Zac... don't you live in America?"
> 
> Yes, but that still doesn't make the way we do things standard. We're actually one pretty darned messed up country when it comes to things like electrical wiring (not to mention electrical safety standards - American electrical safety standards are a joke compared to those in Europe) *


They need those standards because they use all that 220V. :lol:


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

Missed that about the dryer. But that is not the neutral, it is the other leg.

You absolutely will get twice the current at 220V than 120V. Let's say I hook 120V up to your arm, measure the current then switch to 240V. I will read twice the current since other variables stay the same.

American safety standards are adequate. Like you say about the voltage, not everone knows how to use them. I deal with the NEC and NFPA almost every day and they work fine.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Rking401 _
> *You mean you guys have been joking all along? What should I do with all those nails sticking through my case now? *


Coat rack for small animals?


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> *"Really? I've always been told the resistance of the human body varies depending on voltage and AC frequency (remember, most 220 countries use 50Hz). *


That is why I asked about the varistor. The difference between 50 and 60 Hz is very small, especially when talking about the small reactive properties of flesh.


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

> Correct. What I was saying is the other leg takes the place of the neutral. Traditionally, there is no neutral for the 240 circuit.


Zac, that's just not true anymore by CURRENT codes. The 240v outlet in my house (built in 2000) has 2 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground.

My point in correcting you wasn't to be an a**hole, I was trying to correct some faulty knowledge you seem to have about electricity. Now, I no longer care to do that... go play in your breaker box for all I care. I'll just call you Sparky from now on.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> *But most houses are not wired by CURRENT codes. Anyhouse before like 1995 or 1996 (I don't remember for sure what year but it was the mid 90's) does not have 4-pin 240 circuits. You're lucky to have a new house Most of us don't live in new houses... And the fact it's been changed is why I said TRADITIONALLY.*


Zac, how about admitting that you aren't an expert in this area huh? :bang:

Aren't you ever wrong?


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