# 2 dishes - 1 coax line - 2 satellite inputs 721



## AJAX (Dec 2, 2004)

I just switched from the 301 to the 721 and did not realize that the 721 required two cables. I read some of the other threads that a DP44 in combination with a DP44 seperator will allow for one cable into the 721, but I am looking for a little bit more help...

I have 2 dishes on my roof and two cables coming down from my roof. 1 cable connects (outside) to the receiver in my living room and the other cable to the receiver in my bed room. Where do I put the DP44? Is the input into the DP44 the cables that are coming from dishes and the output from the DP44 are these going to my 2 receivers and therefore I need to put the DP44 outside, because that is where they are connecting now? Where do I put the DP44 seperator? Is that behind the 721 in my living room? I only replaced the 301 in my living room for the 721 and would like to keep on using the 301 in my bed room room. Is that a problem with the DP44?

Probably a lot of stupid question and I can't wait for the day that I realize it myself. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!!


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## Pepper (Mar 9, 2004)

If there are 2 dishes on the roof then there is a switch somewhere, probably mounted on the back of one of the dishes. If you can find that, you would replace it with the DPP44, but... if you have legacy LNBFs those would need to be replaced as well. The separator goes inside, connected to both inputs on the 721 and the single cable from the wall.

If you could post the contents of the "check switch" screen from your 301 (Menu 6-1-1) we can probably tell exactly what you have and make a recommendation. A DPP44 retails for $199 and depending on what you have and what you want, there may be a cheaper way to do it. (although if bottom line what you want to do is "run a 721 with only one cable from outside" then right now a DPP44 and a separator is the only way)


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I would put the switch inside out of the weather snce you will likely have to climb up there anyway.


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## AJAX (Dec 2, 2004)

Pepper,

Thank you very much for you response.
The check switch results are:

INSTALLED SWITCH SW21 3-SAT
INPUT 1 1 1 1 2 2
SATELLITE 119 119 110 110 61,5 61,5
POLARITY ODD EVEN ODD EVEN ODD EVEN 

Can you tell me how I can find out whether I have legacy LNBFs?

Thanks again for your help!!


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## AJAX (Dec 2, 2004)

Bob,

Thank you for your reponse, but I because I am clueless in this area, I would like to ask you give me more information. Is the switch the same as DPP44 or is the switch equal to the seperator. If it's the DPP44, where can I install it inside?


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## Pepper (Mar 9, 2004)

Ajax,

Based on the check switch I would guess that you have Legacy Twin pointed at 110/119 and Legacy Dual pointed at 61.5, connected with SW21 switches, one for each of your two lines which run to the two receivers.

Your choices are:
- replace Legacy Twin with two Legacy Duals, connect all six of the LNBF outputs (each has two) to a SW64 (replacing the SW21s), and run a second cable to where the 721 will be
- replace all LNBFs with DP Single or DP Dual, connected to a DP34 switch and a second cable to the 721
- replace all LNBFs with DP Single or DP Dual, connected to a DPP44, use a separator at the 721

Maybe someone else has other options but I think this is it. The DPP44 is designed to survive outside, to connect it inside would mean running all the individual feeds from the LNBFs to the inside as well. The separator would be connected to both inputs at the receiver and one incoming cable from the DPP44. The power inserter would go between the separator and the incoming cable if that line goes to port 1 on the DPP44.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

For your Dish 500, you can use a DP Twin instead of a pair of Duals.

Other than that Pepper has the answer you asked for, although I wouldn't pay well over $200 just to avoid running a new cable.

Oh - and don't listen to Haller. Sometimes he actually says something useful, but this is not one of those times.


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## Pepper (Mar 9, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> For your Dish 500, you can use a DP Twin instead of a pair of Duals.


Yeah, I forgot about that one. I think a DP Quad will also work, but would be overkill in this situation?

There seems to be lots of this stuff for sale, some of it pretty cheap. SW64 and some legacy LNBFs would probably be the cheapest route to get where you want to go which is running three tuners in your house.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> Oh - and don't listen to Haller. Sometimes he actually says something useful, but this is not one of those times.


Switches are always happier inside. Out of rain, snow, and minimizing climbing. Sure lots live outside. But inside causes no trouble and may well likely save hassles later. Run just one cable down from each slot.

You just run a single cable from each of 119, 110 and 61.5, convert eveything to dish pro with a DPP44 in the basement or convenient closet. Use a seperator at the 721.

Best part is if you want to add more receivers its easy access. Troubleshooting? No climbing needed to get to the switch

My switch live stuffed up into a cavity in the basement cieling.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Bob: When you have the luxury of running all the necessary lines, yeah a switch can be happier inside - but NOT in a hot attic - heat=bad.

In THIS case, the poster specifically is trying to avoid running more feed cables.


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## AJAX (Dec 2, 2004)

I appreciate everybodies reply, but this is too technical for me. I am trying to visualize what you are suggesting. Can you do me a favor and have a look at this link. Do any of these overviews correspond with your proposals:
http://www.solidsignal.com/dishnetw...o_Plus_Installation_Quick_Reference_Guide.pdf

FYI: it will be close to impossible to run another cable.

One more question: Is it correct that if I ask Dish network to install the DPP44 that they will charge me monthly for the 721?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

The closest is the top of pg 4, picture the SuperDISH w/o the 3rd output, as a Dish500 would be. The DPP44's 4th sat input and 2 receiver outputs pictured on the right will be unused. Or like this http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2003/3/MVC-024S.JPG w/o the 2nd Dish300. The DP Diplexer in the diagram is now called a Separator.

I think the 721 is for purchase only and it definitely doesn't have the so-called "VOD" fee so I'm not sure what monthly charge there would be that you don't already pay.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

From reading your posts, it sounds like your only option is an outside-mounted DPP44. That will require you to replace your LNBFs. In other words, EVERY piece of electronics except the receivers has to be replaced.

In addition, from the age of your installation, there's a fair chance that your cable is not up to spec for running DishPro gear and has to be replaced. If so, then why not just run the dual RG-6 that's required for a 'standard' setup?

Considering your self-professed confusion over this technology, it's probably time to call in a pro and have them do it.


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## Tweakophyte (Dec 11, 2004)

Hi-

I thought it was the rule that switches are required to be outside. I am finishing the basement and have a nice area with a home run. This area would be readily accessible AND have plenty of cooling. 

I currently have 3 runs coming off of a DP34 (?... the one that came with the 721 deal this summer) then to some grounding blocks. The grounding blocks are in an area that will not be accessible when the drywall is finished. I had the contractor pull a 4th cable, which I have not attached to a grounding block yet.

In the future I will want an HD PVR. Since I have a 721 and a 301, I will need another switch. Can just put a switch in the distribution closet? Does it matter where the grounding blocks are in the loop? Let's say I wanted only one switch. With the current constraints (i.e. the grounding blocks) could I just use some barrels outside to make a straight run to the distribution area and install a DPP44? To be clear, the grounding blocks would be between the LNBs and the switch. Make sense?

Thanks,


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## moviegoerman (Aug 18, 2004)

Here is how I've got my DPP44 installed with a 921 and a 721... See attached imaged.

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2497

My switch is on the outside. It is more convienient to run to all the other rooms from that location. The directions show you how to do it and the switch is built to be indoor or outdoor. You must not have any of the connections facing UP, but that is described in the manual and labeled on the switch. You should also loop the wire just before each connector so that water doesn't flow into the connectors.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Switches do just fine inside a hot attic, thankyouverymuch. My 2 SW21s have been there since I first installed (Oct 2000) and they are still functioning perfectly. It's the WET and water coming in that destroys switches, not the heat.

As for the OP - I agree with whoever said it - "Get an installer to do it for you".


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

scooper said:


> Switches do just fine inside a hot attic, thankyouverymuch. My 2 SW21s have been there since I first installed (Oct 2000) and they are still functioning perfectly. It's the WET and water coming in that destroys switches, not the heat.
> 
> ".


Depends on where you live! Phoenix residents might not agree with you, and besides the SW21s and a SW64 are ddifferent beasts.

Electronic components are always etter off in moderate dry environments.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

As Bob said, there's a BIG difference between a passive device such as a DP21, and an active one like a DP34 - or more especially, the ones requiring power like the DPP44 and SW64.



Tweak... said:


> The grounding blocks are in an area that will not be accessible when the drywall is finished.


NO GO! Don't do it! That's bad on SO many levels, besides probably against code in most jurisdictions. I don't understand why you would want to or have to mount a grounding block inside a wall, but if you think it through, what's going to happen to a lightning current surge that travels down the cable and into the wall???

Grounding blocks are to be mounted OUTSIDE - or, if absolutely necessary, inside, exposed, and within (I think) 2 feet of the entry. I don't know for sure because I absolutely refuse to mount them indoors - at least as a grounded device.

I have no objection to building a patch panel type of layout using them - at that point it's just a barrel connector with mounting legs.  But patch panels are not hidden behind drywall.

My apologies if I've misunderstood how/why you're doing this, but the implication begged to be addressed.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Depends on where you live! Phoenix residents might not agree with you, and besides the SW21s and a SW64 are ddifferent beasts.
> 
> Electronic components are always etter off in moderate dry environments.


Do you think it's cool in an North Carolina attic in the summer ? I assure you - my attic temp in the summer is well over 110 F. I'd agree that it's better to keep them in "moderate" temps, but I put my SW21s in the attic to avoid having them get rained on, etc....


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

scooper said:


> Do you think it's cool in an North Carolina attic in the summer ? I assure you - my attic temp in the summer is well over 110 F. I'd agree that it's better to keep them in "moderate" temps, but I put my SW21s in the attic to avoid having them get rained on, etc....


Consider this. My dad lives in phoenix, average summer high 115 with spikes over 120. Even in a well ventilated attic temperatures soar. Reports of a 150 160 degrees and more. My attic in pittsburgh used to get to 130 before I added a ridge vent. !20 has occured since.

Now here we have a electronic component likely using ICs intentionally overheating it kittle natural ventilation inside a attic.

Everyone knows heat is the enemy of electronic stuff.

Now add in that a switch failure will likely take out the entire system

With dishpro technology you need just ONE lead from each slot.

I think its easier to run 3 cables to a switch in the basement. heck at times I have had 6 receivers, and would rather run 3 cables from the outside than 6 or more.

honestly too why run the risk of messing about in a hotr attic over 100 degrees when I can stand up straight in my nice comfy basement, unconcerned with bees wasps, exposed nails, stepping thru the cieling, and a myriad of other nasties...


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## Tweakophyte (Dec 11, 2004)

Simple Simon... let me ask this. If I put additional grounding blocks outside, can I leave the ones in the wall? If I move my switch to the basement, is it okay to have the grounding blocks in the circuit _before _the switch? Basically I am asking if I am in a position to "right" the situation, given what I've described above?

How close do the power inserter need to be to the DPP44?

Bob, do you think I can move the switch to the basement (with the grounding blocks in-line as they are)? How close does it need to be to the LNBs? Are there any code issues? In the next few months I will need a DPP44 (with separators) and am trying to anticipate any issues I need to handle prior to the drywall going up.

Thanks,


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Tweakophyte said:


> Simple Simon... let me ask this. If I put additional grounding blocks outside, can I leave the ones in the wall? If I move my switch to the basement, is it okay to have the grounding blocks in the circuit _before _the switch? Basically I am asking if I am in a position to "right" the situation, given what I've described above?
> 
> How close do the power inserter need to be to the DPP44?
> 
> ...


Put the grounding blocks OUTSIDE, and replace the cable from outside at the block to a accesible location indoors at the switch like a removeable cieling panel. Thisa will elminate the unneded grounding blocks altogether. Leaving them is really dumb, if one EVER fails you will end up ri[pping out a hole in the wall

I think putting the power inserter RIGHT by the switch indoors is best, but honestly it wll work from nearly anywhere. I recommend all DVR users use a UPS, but with a power inserter its important to UPS it too.

As a word to the wise

Its BEST to use REMOVEABLE cieling tile in a basement. Failure to do this will haunt you for life every time you need access to a mechganical component up there,,,

there are tons of nice attractive systems on the market that will save you lots of hassle later when a drain pipe or wire goes bad.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

What Bob said - every word of it (which is unusual ) except a power inserter will NOT work with diplexers betwen it and the switch. Course, Bob did say "nearly". 

If you're going to mount the switch outside, no separate grounding blocks are needed.

If you're going to mount it inside (in a COOL place), put blocks outside.

But NOTHING in the walls that can't be fished out. IOW, just cable, preferably loose so that it can be replaced by pulling.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

SimpleSimon said:


> What Bob said - every word of it (which is unusual ) except a power inserter will NOT work with diplexers betwen it and the switch. Course, Bob did say "nearly".
> 
> If you're going to mount the switch outside, no separate grounding blocks are needed.
> 
> ...


These DP switches are not to be diplexed.....

Its not a issue you cant do it. The band stacking and communication links cause troubles.

If you mount the switch outsinde a grounding block is still required right at the entrance point unless the swich is located there outside.

Make future changes as easy as possible, since things in DBS can and do change fast.


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