# R15, by camparison, or on it's own merits?



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

It often comes up that we Tivo users (and I guess users of other DVRs, too) often compare the r15's features and performance to the other DVR.

Is this a good thing? Does it show what the r15 can someday achieve if it learns from what came before and stands on the shoulders of giants?

Or is it a bad thing? Are we unduly biased against this newcomer and unwilling to let go of the past?


----------



## Jetszone (Apr 18, 2006)

I have had my R15's since December and I have only had 1 lockup and I have not had any missed recordings. I do however get repeats that record, but it has been alot better as of late.


----------



## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I think in it's present form it's best not to compare. It has features that I really like but it is not stable enough yet. But getting there.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

ApK said:


> I often compare the r15's features


I go though a love/hate thing with my R-15 but overall it offers so much more than a DirecTivo. I switch every few weeks from using my R-10 and R-15 and when I go back to the R-10 I always miss some of the things below.

Can DirecTiVos do this ???? I am not saying personal preferences as I know someone is going to say they dont need this or that. I am simply listing things the R-15 can do that DirecTiVos can not.

Ability to watch a recorded show and still do other things like browse the guide or do some housecleaning. Tivo you cant do anything when watching a recording.

One line guide to use so it doesnt block the TV picture.

Free space % indicator.

90 minute buffer that will autosave when paused for a set period.

A guide that actually works and is not clunky and redraws line by line or in blocks.

In the guide you can tell at a glance what shows are scheduled to record unlike DirecTivos, also simply press record in the guide and the show will record or a SL will be made without changing screens.

Interactive channels (News Mix, Sports Mix, etc...) and features for sports like NFL, NBA, Olympics, etc...

Caller ID on screen,

Conflict select screens where it allows you to choose from ALL conflicts not just 1 like DirecTiVos (a GREAT advantage of the R-15 if you ask me),

Active features with Best Bests PPV shows, lottery, weather, horoscope, daily TV highlights and more.

Ability to directly record XM channels, no backdoor.

Download PPV's to watch later without paying and if you dont watch you dont pay.

Way more sort options in the VOD (Now playing List)

Able to see the program descritions in the VOD without clicking on the program.

Manual recording can be done in 1 minute increments not 5 like DirecTiVos.

Cool blue whirling swirling light on the box.

FF and RR at 4x is much faster.

Main menu is small overlay not a full screen so you can still watch TV when looking for options.

Two favorite channels lists not one like DirecTiVo.

Stores previous channels viewed for quick recall

A lot more Parental Control options.

Now if they just fix the SL dupe recording problem, I think that would also fix the lockups some have, and then its one sweeeeeeetttttt unit.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Haven't we hashed and rehashed this over and over? The R15 isn't a Tivo and a Tivo isn't an R15. I believe we all agree with that statement.

There are features of both that the other doesn't have.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Not only that, but the R15 is the best DirecTV can come up with, while the DTiVos have been purposely crippled by DirecTV. Not exactly a fair competition.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

walters said:


> Not exactly a fair competition.


You two need to make up your mind. When it benefits TiVo its all fair but when the R-15 benefits its not. I dont think ANYTHING I listed above was removed from the DirecTiVo by DirecTV the last I checked. Cant help it the R-15 has a lot of things DirecTiVo's dont.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> There are features of both that the other doesn't have.


I know but the guy above asked. Hence the title of this thread.

I know you love your TiVo but this is the place to tout the benefits of the R-15. Feel free to go to the DirecTiVo section and do likewise.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> You two need to make up your mind. When it benefits TiVo its all fair but when the R-15 benefits its not.


You say that as if it's a double standard.

Where the DTiVo is better it's perfectly fair to say so, because the R15 should have been at least that good or it should have been kept in the lab until it was. I know: "this is DirecTV's first DVR". No, it isn't. It's NDS's second or third (or later) DVR, and NDS has had the platform for six years now.

But when you start a bullet list of features, it isn't fair, because the DTiVo software has amazing networking features that DirecTV dreams of someday offering on their own boxes, and those features have been switched off by DirecTV.


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

The title of the thread refers to the poll -- that is, I'm wondering if we judge the R15 differently when we compare it to our other DVR experience than we do when we have nothing to compare it to?

Nonetheless, if you want to use the thread body to hash out how you MAKE those comparative judgments, that's cool, though I was hoping to stay a bit more 'meta'.

As far as whether it's appropriate to compare at all, I think it's no one's business but the individual as to how they want to shop and spend their money, but for me, If I'm shopping for DVR, I'm going to compare them. If one unit suffers in the comparision from being too old or too new or too crippled, oh well. That's sort of the point of having more than one in the world to choose from, no?


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I was with Dish until January. I had the Dish PVR 510 for 2 years. It was far superior to the R15 with respect to bugs/lock-ups. I had maybe 3 lock-ups in those years.

That said, the R15 is a little more complicated. The PVR-510 only had one tuner and no version of SL.

I think DirecTV should be deeply embarrassed to release a product with their name on it with the numerous and widspeads problems of the R15.


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Shameless bump. I'm finding the poll results interesting so far.


----------



## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

I just like to have dual live buffers. It has a 30 slip now. After that I'll be happy. Maybe a way to turn off VOD.


----------



## ghstbstr (Apr 23, 2006)

I haven't had any problems/issues with the DirecTV Plus/Philips DVR R15-300 receiver that I have. The current receiver software version on my R15 is 0x103A. To me the DirecTV Plus DVR R15 receiver is as flawless as my Tivo Series 1(that I have had since Tivo has available) and my ReplayTV 4500 series(that I have had for a year), which both of those work perfectly.
I am at loss reading all of the problems/issues from posts on this site and other sites, and I have none of these problems/issues what so ever.
I switched from cable tv to satellite tv because of the bad picture quality that I had on cable, I was thinking about getting digital cable but that was until I called the cable tv company and they said that my basic cable video quality will be the exact same and only the digital channels that come with the digital cable will be in digital quality, so now I have satellite tv with DirecTV and I can't be any happier. And satellite tv is cheaper per month and has a better channel line-up then digital cable.


----------



## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

ghstbstr,:welcome_s 

Good for you. Welcome and I hope it stays working well for you.


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Fo the record, I swtiched from Comcast to DTV a a few months ago, and I'm still quite happy.
Glad I've kept my Tivo, in addition to the R15, though.

ghstbstr, I'd be curious to hear a bit about your usage pattern. I've not experienced most of the major problems discussed here, either, but some of them are not just intermittant and don't depend on special conditions. In other words, how could you miss that 5 minute channel change thing? ;-)

ApK


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

I find this pathetically small sample size, unscientific poll pretty interesting. The R15 clearly fares better in isolation than when compared against it's competetion, and sometimes not too bad then either.

What conclusions can we hastely jump to from this information?

ApK


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

ApK said:


> What conclusions can we hastely jump to from this information?


Pretty much what we've known all along: "If you're new to DVRs, you'll love this product."

Quiz: who said that?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Can I play?

And I don't think that person said you would "love" it.... that person just said you will not have as hard as a time as long term TiVo users, re-adjusting to the GUI


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Nope, it is a direct quote.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ahh... I guess you werent referring to me then..... now I know whom you are talking about.


----------



## ghstbstr (Apr 23, 2006)

walters said:


> Pretty much what we've known all along: "If you're new to DVRs, you'll love this product."
> 
> Quiz: who said that?


I am not new to DVR's in any way, but I like my R15-300.
I think that I "like it" or "love it" as you put it, because I am not as picking as most people seem to be that finds every little thing that happens on the R15 as a problem.
I said it before and I will say it the(my) R15-300 works good/fine/great, and it works as it is supposed to.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Again, I didn't say it. Just seemed an appropriate quote given the poll results.

I'm glad it works so well for you, but for me it's a non-starter. I don't have one because it just doesn't meet my needs in it's current form. I don't want to hate it. I just want it to be good enough to consider getting one.


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

ghstbstr said:


> I said it before and I will say it the(my) R15-300 works good/fine/great, and it works as it is supposed to.


So it's supposed to drop a few seconds of audio when it comes out of pause?
It's supposed to change channels 5 minutes early to record, cutting the end off of the show you're watching?
It's supposed to stop the recorded show you're watching and flip you to a tuner when it changes channels to record?

I must have missed those features in the manual.

Seriously, I DO like my r15. It's become our primary DVR, and I have gotten used to some the differences from my Tivo.

But those things, while merely annoyances, not showstoppers, are problems that shouldn't be there.


----------



## ghstbstr (Apr 23, 2006)

ApK said:


> So it's supposed to drop a few seconds of audio when it comes out of pause?
> It's supposed to change channels 5 minutes early to record, cutting the end off of the show you're watching?
> It's supposed to stop the recorded show you're watching and flip you to a tuner when it changes channels to record?
> 
> I must have missed those features in the manual.


Well I have been using my DVR everyday for almost a month now and I have not had those three(3) issues/problems/features(as you call it) with my R15-300.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ghstbstr said:


> Well I have been using my DVR everyday for almost a month now and I have not had those three(3) issues/problems/features(as you call it) with my R15-300.


When you pause a program and start play, you don't loose audio for a second or two once the video starts?

You have never seen the "need to change channel" message 5 minutes before a program is about to record?

How many SLs do you have?


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

ghstbstr said:


> Well I have been using my DVR everyday for almost a month now and I have not had those three(3) issues/problems/features(as you call it) with my R15-300.


I can see two possibilities here (well, three, but I'll assume you're not just lying.  )

1. Either your unit truly doesn't have these issue.
2. Or you unit does, but your usage patterns prevents you from seeing them (perhaps you never watch a show while you have two tuners busy at once or, you never use the play button to relase from pause, etc.)

If it's it 2, then it's not a big deal.

But if it's 1, that means the problems with the unit are not consistantly reproducable, which means they are hard to detect and fix, which is bad news for all of us waiting for fixes!


----------



## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

walters said:


> Again, I didn't say it. Just seemed an appropriate quote given the poll results.
> 
> I'm glad it works so well for you, but for me it's a non-starter. I don't have one because it just doesn't meet my needs in it's current form. I don't want to hate it. I just want it to be good enough to consider getting one.


That reminds me all the comments in TCF about DishPVR. "I don't have one, I never used one, but based on what I read on DBS forums it is junk and SA TiVo rules". I have used SA TiVo, then DishPVR, then DirecTiVo and R-15. Since I never used networking features of SA TiVo (not because I don't have a network or don't know how to connect TiVo. I just have absolutely no use for any of the TiVo networking features), to me SA TiVo sucks compare to any other DVR I used. DircTiVo is OK, but GUI still sucks compare to DishPVR or R-15. As far as set of features, R-15 is the best of all DVRs I ever had. Can't wait to get 30 sec skip/slip so I can start using R-15 for non-premium channels. For now I'm only using R-15 to record PPV and premiums only, can't get used to FF commercials after using 30 sec skip for years. I'm not going to rehash what I don't like about TiVo - list is too long, but I can say this - "If you new to DVR or never used anything but TiVo - you will love it, if you had and used other DVRs you'll find TiVo short on quite a few useful features"


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

samo said:


> "If you new to DVR or never used anything but TiVo - you will love it, if you had and used other DVRs you'll find TiVo short on quite a few useful features"


I think you'll find your self in very small minority here. Even discounting the networking, which I DO use and like, except for two tuners, the bigger hard drive and the price, my SA Tivo blows the R15 away by any meaningful comparison I can come up with. I'm sure it comes down to the specific features one uses and finds valuable in a DVR, but unless "horoscopes" is high on your list, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a feature set argument for the R15 against the Tivo.


----------



## mechman (Apr 29, 2006)

I've come from Dish:

1 - 522
1 - 721
1 - 508
1 - 510

The only main gripe I have about the R15 is the no RF remote. It'd be a nice feature!

mechman


----------



## mechman (Apr 29, 2006)

ApK said:


> So it's supposed to drop a few seconds of audio when it comes out of pause?
> It's supposed to change channels 5 minutes early to record, cutting the end off of the show you're watching?
> It's supposed to stop the recorded show you're watching and flip you to a tuner when it changes channels to record?


Mine seems to only lose audio for maybe a second. But that's easy to fix, go back another second or two.

As for the other 2 problems, you must have overlapping recordings. I have never had it switch channels on me. But I don't have any overlapping recordings either. My R15's use both tuners fine, you may have a dog...

In addendum: I did have experience with overlapping recordings on my dish hardware, so I was aware of the problems it can create when I came to DirecTV. And, as a side note, I've never had a Tivo. My neighbor has one and I can't say that I care for it too much. But I attribute that to being unfamiliar with it.

mechman


----------



## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Being able to work around a problem doesn't stop it from being a problem, small though it may be.
Neither of the other two issues have to do with overlap. They have to do with a problem with the way the R15 manages it's channel changing.


----------



## mechman (Apr 29, 2006)

ApK said:


> Being able to work around a problem doesn't stop it from being a problem, small though it may be.


I know what you mean. I like blue, so grass is a real problem for me.  Except for blue fescue of course! You must have your fingers completely in tune with your remote/receiver to hit it just in time to miss that couple seconds!!:lol: You say toMAYto I say toMAHto...



ApK said:


> Neither of the other two issues have to do with overlap. They have to do with a problem with the way the R15 manages it's channel changing.


These buggers confound me. Like I said I have 2 - 500s and a 300, watch the 500s all the time and the 300 sparingly, and I've never seen this problem. Not trying to trivialize or discount it on yours. Maybe you should call and get a replacement? 

Don't recall ever reading about it anywhere. Anyone else's R15 change channels on them when it needs to record a show? Is it hooked up to 2 sat lines? Is there an overlap? If there's no overlap, it shouldn't change a channel from what you're watching. Mine do not.

mechman


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

mechman said:


> Don't recall ever reading about it anywhere. Anyone else's R15 change channels on them when it needs to record a show? Is it hooked up to 2 sat lines? Is there an overlap? If there's no overlap, it shouldn't change a channel from what you're watching. Mine do not.
> 
> mechman


The "I need to change channels message"? Sure I do. I only have one tuner and expect it. I'd just like to be able to say "go ahead and change channels when you need to, not 5 minutes before hand".


----------



## mechman (Apr 29, 2006)

There's a relatively easy solution to this *problem* though...

Have a second coax hooked up. They installed my first one that way, and I installed the other two that way. I understand that some folks may not have the outputs readily available or not have the means to run their own rg6 cables thru their walls, but how is that a problem with the receiver? I'd label it more like "an annoyance to a select few". (Now I've probably set off a few by saying "easy solution" - here comes a few more helpful posts)

As I've stated earlier, I don't mean to push people's buttons. Yet I also came from a long line of dish network crapola, and compared to that, I'd take the R15 anyday. Unfortunately for me, I've never been exposed long term to tivo. And I realize that alot of you have, please bear with me. I do own a HR10-250. But it won't be subbed and running for a few more weeks, once the basement theater is done. Maybe then I'll be enlightened?!?!?  

A happy DirecTV subscriber,

mechman


----------



## ghstbstr (Apr 23, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> When you pause a program and start play, you don't loose audio for a second or two once the video starts?
> 
> You have never seen the "need to change channel" message 5 minutes before a program is about to record?
> 
> How many SLs do you have?


I have noticed the loosing volume for a second or two after pausing then pushing play, but it doesn't always happen and that's not a problem or an issue to me because I have notice my Series 1 Tivo and two of my DVD players that do that, so that is not a big deal. 
No I have not seen the message "need to change channel" because the R15 has two tuners, and I do not watch a "live" show and record two more shows at the same time. If you see that message then I think you need to have a second R15, because you seem to need it. 
I have around 12-14 Series Links's at any given time on my R15-300.

So I am sticking to it that I do not have or had any problems/issues with my R15-300, and that it works perfectly as it supposed to.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

ghstbstr said:


> So I am sticking to it that I do not have or had any problems/issues with my R15-300, and that it works perfectly as it supposed to.


Cool Deal.


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

mechman said:


> As for the other 2 problems, you must have overlapping recordings. I have never had it switch channels on me.
> mechman


I don't think the:
"It's supposed to change channels 5 minutes early to record, cutting the end off of the show you're watching?" problem was adequately described. Try this, and I'm sure you'll be able to duplicate the problem.

Say, for the sake of argument, that it's 5:45pm.
1. Tag shows on 2 different channels to record at 6:00pm.
2. Start watching live TV on a channel other than the 2 you have set to record.
3. At 5:55pm you'll get the dialouge box saying that the R15 must change channels to record those shows at 6:00pm. Choose yes to change channel, or one of the shows won't record. That leaves you with 3 choices. 1) Select no, and one of your shows won't record. 2) Select yes and the channel will change and you miss the last 5 minutes of the show you're watching. 3) Watch the last 4-5 minutes of the show you're watching with that dialouge box on the screen, and then select yes before 6:00pm so that you're recordings will record.


----------



## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

samo said:


> That reminds me all the comments in TCF about DishPVR. "I don't have one, I never used one, but based on what I read on DBS forums it is junk and SA TiVo rules".


Sure, but I don't need to try a Miata to know I can't fit my three kids in there. I'm not talking just about bugs or UI choices. I'm talking mostly about "here, give me a list of the 50 series you'd like me to record." Sorry, but I can't narrow it down that far. Until they fix that I wouldn't even be able to evaluate it for the other stuff.


----------



## mechman (Apr 29, 2006)

qwerty said:


> I don't think the:
> "It's supposed to change channels 5 minutes early to record, cutting the end off of the show you're watching?" problem was adequately described. Try this, and I'm sure you'll be able to duplicate the problem.


I understood exactly what was happening. I just don't view it as a problem. An annoyance, sure for some - but not for me. As an example, when the new Soprano season started, I specifically set it up to record the HBO-W showing so that it would not conflict with West Wing on NBC. I owned a Dish pvr721 (dual tuner), so I was familiar with recording two channels at once and the consequences that go along with it. I don't recall if it had to change channels 5 minutes in advance or if this could be changed, but I know it did it.

Didn't any of the Tivo units have dual tuners?

The only problem with this receiver as far as I can tell is the Series Link logic. Most SL's that are set up for first run record reruns. But I don't view it as a big problem. It's pretty easy to go and delete shows you don't want.

mechman


----------



## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Oh brother.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

mechman said:


> I just don't view it as a problem. An annoyance, sure for some - but not for me. As an example, when the new Soprano season started, I specifically set it up to record the HBO-W showing so that it would not conflict with West Wing on NBC. I owned a Dish pvr721 (dual tuner), so I was familiar with recording two channels at once and the consequences that go along with it. I don't recall if it had to change channels 5 minutes in advance or if this could be changed, but I know it did it.


Well, for me it's an annoyance and a problem. Poor design. One shouldn't be expected to "make up" for a DVRs shortcomings by coding around a problem.



mechman said:


> Didn't any of the Tivo units have dual tuners?


Sure did and do. When a DTivo needs to change channels it comes up with a message that it "needs to change channels in 2 minutes to record the upcoming show". The user then presses OK or Cancel. If OK was pressed the user continues to watch the show he/she is watching and the Tivo changes the channel when needed, not 5 minutes before.

Now, as I've stated before, since the R15 is a replacement for the R10 (note the model numbers) any reasonable person would think this problem/annoyance would have been taken care of before release.

If ones DVR expectations are low or none, then this isn't that big of a deal. But when your expectations are based on the previous DVR you received from DTV (the R10), this is a big deal.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Sure did and do. When a DTivo needs to change channels it comes up with a message that it "needs to change channels in 2 minutes to record the upcoming show". The user then presses OK or Cancel. If OK was pressed the user continues to watch the show he/she is watching and the Tivo changes the channel when needed, not 5 minutes before.


I think this is standard on any DVR is it not? I know the UTV had it. I'm really really shocked that they didn't get this right or fix it yet. Hell the least it could do if it's going to switch channels is auto-pad the show for you


----------



## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

I have not had any problems with my R-15 so I will not bad mouth this unit.


----------



## mechman (Apr 29, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> When a DTivo needs to change channels it comes up with a message that it "needs to change channels in 2 minutes to record the upcoming show". The user then presses OK or Cancel. If OK was pressed the user continues to watch the show he/she is watching and the Tivo changes the channel when needed, not 5 minutes before.


Yep, that's the way I remember the 721 doing things.



Wolffpack said:


> Now, as I've stated before, since the R15 is a replacement for the R10 (note the model numbers) any reasonable person would think this problem/annoyance would have been taken care of before release.
> 
> If ones DVR expectations are low or none, then this isn't that big of a deal. But when your expectations are based on the previous DVR you received from DTV (the R10), this is a big deal.


Was the R10 Tivo? Maybe that's why...

mechman


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> When a DTivo needs to change channels it comes up with a message that it "needs to change channels in 2 minutes to record the upcoming show". The user then presses OK or Cancel. If OK was pressed the user continues to watch the show he/she is watching and the Tivo changes the channel when needed, not 5 minutes before.


My Dish PVR 510 did it that way too.


----------



## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

gomezma1 said:


> I have not had any problems with my R-15 so I will not bad mouth this unit.


Please let us know when you've unpacked it.


----------



## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Please let us know when you've unpacked it.


LMAO :lol:


----------

