# To Do List Disaster



## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

The menu change on the new release is a disaster.

The purpose of a DVR is to schedule and watch recorded shows.

Here's my suggestion:

Use the LIST button in a similar way that the GUIDE button is used:

Tap once, it goes to My Shows. Tap again, it goes to the To Do list.


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## cdizzy (Jul 29, 2007)

I agree. Putting it way back in the menu's doesn't make a lot of sense.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> The menu change on the new release is a disaster.
> 
> The purpose of a DVR is to schedule and watch recorded shows.
> 
> ...


I think we'll be seeing alot of these threads in the regular forums now that it's going national. Already been beat to death in the CE forums.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cdizzy said:


> I agree. Putting it way back in the menu's doesn't make a lot of sense.


Why?

It is underneath MANAGE RECORDINGS...

Is the usage of the ToDo list to MANAGE what is going to be RECORDED?


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## cdizzy (Jul 29, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why?
> 
> It is underneath MANAGE RECORDINGS...
> 
> Is the usage of the ToDo list to MANAGE what is going to be RECORDED?


Your right about that too, Earl. I guess what I meant was that being the only way to it doesn't make sense.


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## John in Georgia (Sep 24, 2006)

cdizzy said:


> I agree. Putting it way back in the menu's doesn't make a lot of sense.


"Way back in the menu?" On my machine it's "manage recordings", down-arrow, down-arrow. "Way back in the menu" would be the 16 or 17 keystrokes it USED to take to turn closed-captioning off and on ... at least in my opinion.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Check out the polls...

4% rarely use the To Do Button:
How Do You Use The To Do Button?

63% Used to Use the To Do Button At Least Daily:
How Often Do You Use Your To Do Button?

Only 11% liked the change:
What to do, with To-Do

No one knows why they did not at least leave To Do on the new menu. There was plenty of rooom...

Let your voice be heard!

Save To Do!

- Craig


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Hurricane Katrina was a disaster.

Darfur is a disaster.

This is an inconvenience.


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## cdizzy (Jul 29, 2007)

John in Georgia said:


> "Way back in the menu?" On my machine it's "manage recordings", down-arrow, down-arrow. "Way back in the menu" would be the 16 or 17 keystrokes it USED to take to turn closed-captioning off and on ... at least in my opinion.


Well apparently my wording is causing a fuss.

The old way was 2 keystokes(list then yellow). Now it's like 5. I suppose "way back" is going a bit too far but I don't like the change regardless.


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## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

cdizzy said:


> Well apparently my wording is causing a fuss.
> 
> The old way was 2 keystokes(list then yellow). Now it's like 5. I suppose "way back" is going a bit too far but I don't like the change regardless.


::Shakes head:: great now I have to explain to the wife how to get the to do list. Then listen to her GRIPE about it. I am not crazy about the new way of getting to it. I have voted so my voice could be heard. Is the yellow button being used in a different way now on the recordings list?


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

markrubi said:


> ::Shakes head:: great now I have to explain to the wife how to get the to do list. Then listen to her GRIPE about it. I am not crazy about the new way of getting to it. I have voted so my voice could be heard. Is the yellow button being used in a different way now on the recordings list?


Yes, yellow is not now a context sensitive menu based on where you are. The normal menu is the same no matter where you are.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Be nice to just get LIST-LIST for todo to do away with all the sky is falling talk.

Would be so simple to implement. Ah well ...


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Carl Spock said:


> Hurricane Katrina was a disaster.
> 
> Darfur is a disaster.
> 
> This is an inconvenience.


I don't even know if I'd call it an inconvenience.

It used to take 1 second to get to the todo list. Now it takes 3 seconds. Not much of an inconvenience.

It's just different and most people don't like change. It's much more intuitive the way it is now. My wife found the todo list without any problem a few weeks ago. It was the first time she had found it without having to think about it (granted, she/we don't use it very often). Remember the long thread when Earl asked everyone why tivo was better? Most of the pages and pages of responses* were about how tivo was more intuitive. D* finally starts to make their machine more intuitive (and logical) and everyone freaks out and starts to complain.

While I can agree that it might be better closer to the top of the "menu" menu, other than that I think it's fine where it is.

*I realize that nobody responding here, responded in that thread, so no need to point it out.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

I'm not saying to remove it from where it is, just to also add a shortcut key. New releases shouldn't make common tasks slower.

I think a second tap of the list key would be the simplest, and as you say, intuitive, since it is also a list.


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Disaster? That's kind of overkill for sure.

Did I prefer the List>Yellow? I did like that shortcut. This won't kill me though and is hardly a disaster. As stated above, it's more intuitive now but less quick. With all the development that's gone on, I've got no reason to think that at some point it won't be both again.

All the hub bub and noise about this minor issue is tiring. Our voice has been heard on it, now we're just crying about it.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

Getting to the ToDo list went from 2 buttons to 3 buttons. I think it should either be part of the shortcut menu or accessed with List->List to get back to 2 buttons.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

mcbeevee said:


> Getting to the ToDo list went from 2 buttons to 3 buttons. I think it should either be part of the shortcut menu or accessed with List->List to get back to 2 buttons.


Actually it went from 2 keypresses, to 5 or 6 keypresses - depending on the options in your menu...


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Here's another vote for LIST - LIST


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

I have an HR-21 which still has *•* To Do.

I'll sell it to the highest bidder.

(The *•* yellow button, not the HR-21)


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Actually it went from 2 keypresses, to 5 or 6 keypresses - depending on the options in your menu...


I forgot to count pressing the down arrow 3 times after the Menu button, so it went from 2 keys to 6 (if you have On Demand in the menu)!


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> The menu change on the new release is a disaster.
> 
> The purpose of a DVR is to schedule and watch recorded shows.
> 
> ...


This has been suggested zillions of times for many weeks by many people - with no effect so far. If you have a universal, it is easier to program the 5 button presses now required to get to TODO as a macro to a single button press on the universal.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why?
> 
> It is underneath MANAGE RECORDINGS...
> 
> Is the usage of the ToDo list to MANAGE what is going to be RECORDED?


"Why" as in defending where it is now? It should be easier to access TODO than it is now. The fact that you cannot get to it from LIST anymore is kind of confusing how someone would think it is acceptable. I certainly do not understand the rationale.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

gcisko said:


> This has been suggested zillions of times for many weeks by many people - with no effect so far. If you have a universal, it is easier to program the 5 button presses now required to get to TODO as a macro to a single button press on the universal.


Maybe in the CE forums, but this "feature" is national now. A lot more people are affected by it.

Also, my Harmony remote doesn't have enough slots in a macro to go to the To Do list.


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## General_Zod (Apr 3, 2006)

I must agree this is a horrible change. The "ToDo" should be a button on the remote since I am sure it is used far more than the "Active" button.. but since the remote was made the way it was made at least make it easily accessible instead of hiding it under some other sub-menu. Maybe make it so if you hit the list button twice to get to it or something simple. This was a bad move.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

List yellow for me


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> Maybe in the CE forums, but this "feature" is national now. A lot more people are affected by it.


Yep...



MrKlaatu said:


> Also, my Harmony remote doesn't have enough slots in a macro to go to the To Do list.


Which Harmony? How many slots?


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

JACKIEGAGA said:


> List yellow for me


Apparently not gonna happen. I think someone needs to explain to the masses why this change was so essential :eek2:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

gcisko said:


> Apparently not gonna happen. I think someone needs to explain to the masses why this change was so essential :eek2:


Because they chose to make it standard accross the entire system:
Yellow button brings up the context sensitive menu.

They also then made the "menu" static (the same) in every screen.
So you can use the exact same pattern of key strokes to get to the same functions regardless where you are in the system.

It was also felt, that "ToDo" was not related to the list of what you have already recorded... hence why it is not on that context sensitive menu.

What other explanations are you looking for that we haven't hashed out for the last 6 weeks?


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because they chose to make it standard accross the entire system:
> Yellow button brings up the context sensitive menu.
> 
> They also then made the "menu" static (the same) in every screen.
> ...


No other explainations for me personally. But obviously the non CE'rs are confused about the change. I think you helped them understand. Thanks buddy


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

gcisko said:


> Which Harmony? How many slots?


880. Five slots.

Need six: yellow, down, down, down, select, select


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because they chose to make it standard accross the entire system:
> Yellow button brings up the context sensitive menu.


Yes, but I'm not saying to change that, just to add a shortcut.



> They also then made the "menu" static (the same) in every screen.
> So you can use the exact same pattern of key strokes to get to the same functions regardless where you are in the system.


Yes, and six is too many for one of the most common functions.



> It was also felt, that "ToDo" was not related to the list of what you have already recorded... hence why it is not on that context sensitive menu.


It may not be related to what you have ALREADY recorded, but it is one of three recording-oriented lists: MyShows (recorded), ToDo (epsiode/showings to record), and Prioritizer (series to record).



> What other explanations are you looking for that we haven't hashed out for the last 6 weeks?


This is not the CE forum. It hasn't been hashed out here for 6 weeks. The CE program is a great one and has resulted in a ton of great features and changes, but if the current ToDo function is a result of CE feedback, then in my opinion, it is a rare failure of the program.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

i only keep a stock hr20-100...what unit is this on? list yellow is todo for me tonight


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

MrKlaatu said:


> Yes, but I'm not saying to change that, just to add a shortcut.


Which shortcut? 
Adding it to the context menu turns it into at least a 3 if not a 4 button combination.



MrKlaatu said:


> Yes, and six is too many for one of the most common functions.


Common to everyone? 
I understand that there a lot of people that use the ToDo list daily... but that is not everyone.



MrKlaatu said:


> It may not be related to what you have ALREADY recorded, but it is one of three recording-oriented lists: MyShows (recorded), ToDo (epsiode/showings to record), and Prioritizer (series to record).


So should we add Prioritizer to the BLUE button from MyList?
Two of those ones you listed, are for managing your recording (ironically, the name of the menu they are under now)



MrKlaatu said:


> This is not the CE forum. It hasn't been hashed out here for 6 weeks. The CE program is a great one and has resulted in a ton of great features and changes, but if the current ToDo function is a result of CE feedback, then in my opinion, it is a rare failure of the program.


The comment that you quoted, was in reply to the specific poster, who has at times participated in the CE forums and the discussion there.

So sorry that my comments are going to sound canned... but as you will find... multiple suggestions have been made on how to change it to something... 100's of posts of ideas and discussion on this change.

One thing was common... there was no unanimous choice on what should be done. So it is as not like the people in the CE program didn't voice their opinions, the did... and very often... But at the end of the day... DirecTV evaluates a LOT of data points on this... CE feedback... User Trials... and other factors... They don't do these changes willy nilly..

Originally in the first CE, the note wasn't even there in the context menu to let you know where to find ToDo... that was a direct response to one of the ideas kicked around in the CE program.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

newsposter said:


> i only keep a stock hr20-100...what unit is this on? list yellow is todo for me tonight


HR20-700..
It will soon be on the HR20-100


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> HR20-700..
> It will soon be on the HR20-100


aww she's not gonna be happy and loved the way it was. Has enough fun going back and forth between this and hdtivo and i cant remember tivo ever changing shortcuts like this.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

MrKlaatu said:


> Yes, and six is too many for one of the most common functions.


Too many how?

Because it takes too long?

As I've stated before, it takes 3 seconds to get there. The CC used to be about 15 steps. THAT was too many. 6 steps is not too many.

Because you can't set up a macro?

So what? Everything doesn't need a macro. It'd be faster to do it without a macro. Macro's for controlling one piece of equipment are usually unnecessary.


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

newsposter said:


> aww she's not gonna be happy and loved the way it was. Has enough fun going back and forth between this and hdtivo and i cant remember tivo ever changing shortcuts like this.


TiVo didn't change much in the 8 years they were my primary. After version 2.5 (dual tuner activation) development was as scarce as their profit. 

They did change the shortcuts though. I can't remember what TiVo+1 was initially, but then it was changed to SPM. A few changed with v 2.0 when Wishlists and SPM were added.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Which shortcut?


I suggest hitting LIST a second time.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Too many how?
> 
> Because it takes too long?
> 
> ...


Why are you so against a shortcut? I'm not saying to remove itfrom the existing menu.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> 880. Five slots.
> 
> Need six: yellow, down, down, down, select, select


I have the 880. Program it for everything except the last "select". In the menu you end up with, you may want the prioritizer instead. So the fact that you have to manually select "select" is not a biggie. Just try it you will see what I mean.

I use the programmed macro many times each day. You will soon find that you do not care what the programmers do with TODO or their logic for doing it. Just pray they do not move it 6 button presses away 

The macro for me is: MENU down down down select. I have On Demand... Not sure why you have YELLOW first.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> This is not the CE forum. It hasn't been hashed out here for 6 weeks. The CE program is a great one and has resulted in a ton of great features and changes, but if the current ToDo function is a result of CE feedback, then in my opinion, it is a rare failure of the program.


Earl's last question was meant for me personally. I have known about this from the time it was implemented. I just wanted him to explain to everyone "why". I got the impression he missed that part and I was just asking to mess with him or something. I was not. I was trying to be for real


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i only keep a stock hr20-100...what unit is this on? list yellow is todo for me tonight


This is for the national release of the HR20-700 firmware. The bottom line is you now have 30SKIP (big bonus) and TODO is many more button presses away (whoops).


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

MrKlaatu said:


> Why are you so against a shortcut? I'm not saying to remove itfrom the existing menu.


Don't know.

I guess I'm more against the constant barrage of posts and complaints about it (and I know that some of you haven't been privy to them for the last 2 months) when there's so many other things that should be more important. Heck, some members have even changed their avatars to express their displeasure with the fact that going to the todo list now takes 3 seconds. Or that they can no longer set a macro and are forced to actually move their thumb 5 times. Like it's more exercise than they can stand. It's absurd.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The comment that you quoted, was in reply to the specific poster, who has at times participated in the CE forums and the discussion there.


Just for clairification... I think you will find that I have participated in the CE process far more than "at times" since September 06. Pretty much been into it from the beginning of the HR20-700 thing. The fact that we do not see eye to eye on certain issues (like this one) is just the way it goes 

Believe it or not it is nothing personal. I do appreciate all that all of you moderators do.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Don't know.
> 
> I guess I'm more against the constant barrage of posts and complaints about it (and I know that some of you haven't been privy to them for the last 2 months) when there's so many other things that should be more important. Heck, some members have even changed their avatars to express their displeasure with the fact that going to the todo list now takes 3 seconds. Or that they can no longer set a macro and are forced to actually move their thumb 5 times. Like it's more exercise than they can stand. It's absurd.


But what does everyone expect the general public to do? Of course the discussion is going to flare up again. I am going to guess that many HR20 users use TODO far more than was expected. I doubt there is a way to quantify it though. So just program your universal and be done with it...


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## Veloce (Nov 16, 2006)

Personally, I think the new menu's are MUCH better than the old one. The old one's organization just made no sense. This one is in general much better organized. Frankly, the to do list never made any sense to be in some yellow button under the guide. It seems much more logical and organized under the menu/manage/... path.
C


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Veloce said:


> Personally, I think the new menu's are MUCH better than the old one. The old one's organization just made no sense. This one is in general much better organized. Frankly, the to do list never made any sense to be in some yellow button under the guide. It seems much more logical and organized under the menu/manage/... path.
> C


TODO was the YELLOW button under LIST. I never tried the YELLOW button under guide so I am not sure about that.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Check out the polls...
> 
> 4% rarely use the To Do Button:
> How Do You Use The To Do Button?
> ...


Now that more and more regular users are losing their To Do Button...

It turns out that losing the To Do Button is an even bigger issue for regular users.

Why can't To Do be on the To Do menu (Playlist Options Menu)?

- Craig


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

gcisko said:


> The macro for me is: MENU down down down select. I have On Demand... Not sure why you have YELLOW first.


Oops, I meant MENU, not YELLOW.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

gcisko said:


> But what does everyone expect the general public to do? Of course the discussion is going to flare up again. I am going to guess that many HR20 users use TODO far more than was expected. I doubt there is a way to quantify it though. So just program your universal and be done with it...


And I believe that the members of this board use the todo list FAR MORE than J6P ever would. The change is good for D* as a whole. Now, a shortcut as well would be fine, I guess, but the change is the way it should be.

Polls and threads just keep being added, however. I just noticed that there's yet another poll related to this. but the poll doesn't matter. The member of this board are SERIOUS DVR users. The average user probably doesn't even know there is a todo list. They might now, however, as it's much easier to find.

Seriously, don't you think that there's too much fuss over changing the todo list from 2 key presses to 6? Fuss over something that used to take 1 second that now takes 3 seconds? Everyone acts like the feature was removed.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I guess I'm more against the constant barrage of posts and complaints about it (and I know that some of you haven't been privy to them for the last 2 months) when there's so many other things that should be more important.


You have to expect (and understand) that this discussion will take place in this forum now that the release is national. If it started up again in the CE forum, I would understand your frustration.

As far as other things that shoudl be more important... that's a matter of opinion, isn't it. I, personally, don't have many complaints with the HR20 at this point. I'd like to see automatic soft padding, more HD on demand, but many of the issues that people care about, I do not. Like dual live buffers, for example. In fact, I do NOT want them to add that feature. I never watch live TV. Never. And i don't want my hard drive constantly writing and wearing out for no reason.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

So, I just went into the CE forum and found the poll from early December. It seems the vast majority of people want to add a shortcut, with most choosing LIST>LIST. (When I started this thread, I came up with LIST>LIST independently, but since so many others did too, perhaps it IS intuitive.)


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> And I believe that the members of this board use the todo list FAR MORE than J6P ever would. The change is good for D* as a whole. Now, a shortcut as well would be fine, I guess, but the change is the way it should be.


What is J6P? I am not familar with that.



spartanstew said:


> Polls and threads just keep being added, however. I just noticed that there's yet another poll related to this. but the poll doesn't matter. The member of this board are SERIOUS DVR users. The average user probably doesn't even know there is a todo list. They might now, however, as it's much easier to find.
> .


And what are you basing this on? How do you know any of this?



spartanstew said:


> Seriously, don't you think that there's too much fuss over changing the todo list from 2 key presses to 6? Fuss over something that used to take 1 second that now takes 3 seconds? Everyone acts like the feature was removed.


If "everyone" acts like that, maybe it is affecting more people that you are letting on? I think you are making assumptions that are not based on anything. Please prove me wrong.


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

J6P=Joe SixPack


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Xaa said:


> J6P=Joe SixPack


Is that a new super hero or something? Why in the world would anyone even think to relate that to anything having to do with the placement of the TODO button?


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> So, I just went into the CE forum and found the poll from early December. It seems the vast majority of people want to add a shortcut, with most choosing LIST>LIST. (When I started this thread, I came up with LIST>LIST independently, but since so many others did too, perhaps it IS intuitive.)


But you have to understand that any of those polls in no way reflects the true feelings of the DirecTV membership. With 29Million subscribers now, just a few hundred votes means nothing. Especially if the poll does not agree with your position. This point was driven home by the 8% losing minority of the OTA poll.


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

gcisko said:


> Is that a new super hero or something? Why in the world would anyone even think to relate that to anything having to do with the placement of the TODO button?


Joe SixPack is a commonly accepted way of referring to "The common man" that's all. Where you been?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Joe Six Pack has been around for decades. For Snoopy, he was Joe Cool.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> And I believe that the members of this board use the todo list FAR MORE than J6P ever would. The change is good for D* as a whole. Now, a shortcut as well would be fine, I guess, but the change is the way it should be.
> 
> Polls and threads just keep being added, however. I just noticed that there's yet another poll related to this. but the poll doesn't matter. The member of this board are SERIOUS DVR users. The average user probably doesn't even know there is a todo list. They might now, however, as it's much easier to find.
> 
> Seriously, don't you think that there's too much fuss over changing the todo list from 2 key presses to 6? Fuss over something that used to take 1 second that now takes 3 seconds? Everyone acts like the feature was removed.


Personaly don't see a use for DLB either but a bunch of people want that to.. and I think more want the todo back in some form or another..


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

gcisko said:


> But you have to understand that any of those polls in no way reflects the true feelings of the DirecTV membership. With 29Million subscribers now, just a few hundred votes means nothing. Especially if the poll does not agree with your position. This point was driven home by the 8% losing minority of the OTA poll.


29 million subscribers? Umm....you may want to check your numbers


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

houskamp said:


> Personaly don't see a use for DLB either but a bunch of people want that to.. and I think more want the todo back in some form or another..


Only because it's the complaint du jour*.

*Here you go gcisko


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Earl, this is no disrespect towards you&#8230;.



Earl Bonovich said:


> It was also felt, that "ToDo" was not related to the list of what you have already recorded... hence why it is not on that context sensitive menu.


It is called the "TODO List" therefore it is technically a list, it is a list of upcoming shows that is to be recorded. 



Earl Bonovich said:


> Which shortcut?
> Adding it to the context menu turns it into at least a 3 if not a 4 button combination.


But it was a 2 button combination, so much easier then 3 or 4. They made it harder to get to. And just think of all the people out there that don't read this forum. How are they going to know where its at now? 



Earl Bonovich said:


> Common to everyone?
> I understand that there a lot of people that use the ToDo list daily... but that is not everyone.


I use it everyday to check and see what's coming up to be recorded, to see if there are any conflicts, and to delete episodes of shows that I've already seen. 



Earl Bonovich said:


> So should we add Prioritizer to the BLUE button from MyList?
> Two of those ones you listed, are for managing your recording (ironically, the name of the menu they are under now)


No, there is no need to have a blue button prioitizer shortcut, because for me, and most others on here, once you set up your prioitizer, there is no need to go into everyday.

And once you hit LIST twice, you are in the "manage my recordings list." From there you can go to the VOD queue, history, purchases, prioritizer, manual, and record defaults on the left side of the screen. A lot quicker if you ask me.

Once you hit list once, they could put a reminder at the top, "press list again to go into manage my recordings." Something like that. 



Earl Bonovich said:


> The comment that you quoted, was in reply to the specific poster, who has at times participated in the CE forums and the discussion there.
> 
> So sorry that my comments are going to sound canned... but as you will find... multiple suggestions have been made on how to change it to something... 100's of posts of ideas and discussion on this change.
> 
> ...


True, but it seems to me that the general consensus likes the LIST>LIST option.


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> Only because it's the complaint du jour*.


Word.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Only because it's the complaint du jour*.


gonna be more than one day... Just saying to each their own... and since at least adding it to the yellow menu while in list would take about 5 minutes to code I just don't see why they haven't done it already...


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Finally weighing in here ...

My simple solution to this issue is to move "Manage Recordings" to the first position on the Quick Menu. My reasons:

1. "My Playlist" is currently the first option, but it doesn't need to be, as there is already a dedicated LIST button on the reote that does the same thing.

2. The current position for "Manage Recordings", located below the "On-Demand" option, means that the position can "float" based on whether or not the DVR is networked. This makes it impossible to consistently, accurately use Macros.

3. Having "Manage Recordings" first makes it very simple and convenient to get to the To Do List: MENU, SELECT, SELECT. This only requires one simple move of a command in the Quick Menu.

4. Having "Manage Recordings" first would appease those who miss the To Do Shortcut and end much discussion here. 

Without reinventing the UI, this simple act will cut in half the steps it currently takes to get to the To Do List, is easily mapped to a macro because the position would not change


----------



## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Hurricane Katrina was a disaster.
> 
> Darfur is a disaster.
> 
> This is an inconvenience.


I agree that the loss of the To Do button is comparable to Katrina and Darfur. :lol:

Just kidding - I haven't even gotten the new software yet. Fortunately, I haven't gotten used to getting to the To Do list that way - still in a TiVo menu mindset. It does seem kind of silly/stupid that they took it away, though.


----------



## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because they chose to make it standard accross the entire system:
> Yellow button brings up the context sensitive menu.
> 
> They also then made the "menu" static (the same) in every screen.
> ...


OK, I can't argue with making things more logical and consistent. Inconsistency is one of the main things I've been griping about since I got the HR20. I have to retract my previous statement and go over to Earl's side on this one.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

cover said:


> OK, I can't argue with making things more logical and consistent. Inconsistency is one of the main things I've been griping about since I got the HR20. I have to retract my previous statement and go over to Earl's side on this one.


I'm completely on Earl's side when we're discussing the value of the new Options menus. This improves the usability of the HR20 by leaps and bounds over what it was when these options were buried in the Quick Menu, so there's no mistake in my mind that DIRECTV did the right thing by enabling YELLOW as an Options button for TV, Guide, and Playlist features.

However, I do think DIRECTV also made a mistake by eliminating the two-click shortcut to the To Do List without also giving us a comparable shortcut. Users of the HR20 for a year have grown accustomed to pressing LIST > YELLOW to get to the To Do List, and even if DIRECTV (after a year) decided that the To Do List has no relevance on the Playlist, their customers were used to pressing only two buttons to get to the To Do List.

I hope DIRECTV comes up with some solution here, to make these customers happy again, whether it's a "power user command" like MENU-3 to get to the To Do List, or by moving Manage Recordings first, or even LIST-LIST. Bring back a shortcut, that's all we're asking ...


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Finally weighing in here ...
> 
> My simple solution to this issue is to move "Manage Recordings" to the first position on the Quick Menu. My reasons:
> 
> ...


The one thing I don't want to screw up again is the CC for those who need it. It should be the first in the quick menu from the start. It was the most anticipated item to get dragged deep out of the menu. I don't think there needs to be any improvement on List-List. First list is what you have, second list is what is coming up.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

armophob said:


> The one thing I don't want to screw up again is the CC for those who need it. It should be the first in the quick menu from the start. It was the most anticipated item to get dragged deep out of the menu. I don't think there needs to be any improvement on List-List. First list is what you have, second list is what is coming up.


I think you're mixing up the Quick Menu and the Options Menus.

The Quick Menu is when you press MENU, and Manage Recordings is currently the 4th rf 5th command of the menu (depending on if you have On Demand enabled.)

The Options Menus are raised by pressing YELLOW, and my post you quoted has nothing do to with changing the Options Menus.

All I'm suggesting DIRECTV do is go from THIS in the Quick Menu:

My Playlist
On Demand
Search for Shows
Manage Recordings​To THIS:

Manage Recordings
My Playlist
On Demand
Search for Shows
​It's a simple change that goes a long way to satisfy a lot of people who miss the To Do shortcut, because with my "revised" Quick Menu, it's just MENU, SELECT, SELECT to get to the To Do List.


----------



## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Xaa said:


> J6P=Joe SixPack


Leave me out of this.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

assume for one moment that there are people that dont use the internet..how do they know things change on these releases?


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

newsposter said:


> assume for one moment that there are people that dont use the internet..how do they know things change on these releases?


This update is the "winter release" and includes an on-screen message that introduces the changes.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Just noticed something very interesting ...

Hit LIST on an H21 and see what happens ...

It brings up the Todo list ...

LIST-LIST baby ...


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> I think you're mixing up the Quick Menu and the Options Menus.
> 
> The Quick Menu is when you press MENU, and Manage Recordings is currently the 4th rf 5th command of the menu (depending on if you have On Demand enabled.)
> 
> ...


Yes, I thought you were speaking of the yellow button menu. I never use it, so I did not pick up on the order.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sixto said:


> Just noticed something very interesting ...
> 
> Hit LIST on an H21 and see what happens ...
> 
> ...


What else would it bring up?

The ToDo list on an H21 is the list of ToBe AutoTuned...
Kinda like a review of your timers.


----------



## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What else would it bring up?
> 
> The ToDo list on an H21 is the list of ToBe AutoTuned...
> Kinda like a review of your timers.


Yep.

Just thought it was interesting for those that commented that the todo list shouldn't be associated with LIST. On the H21, it does just that.

LIST on H21 for Todo list.

LIST on HR2x for Playlist.

LIST-LIST on HR2x for Todo list.

Seems like perfect continuity.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What else would it bring up?
> 
> The ToDo list on an H21 is the list of ToBe AutoTuned...
> Kinda like a review of your timers.


BINGO! Just like the TODO List on the HR's is a LIST of up coming shows to be recorded. Therefore is should be tied to the list button.

LIST = my play list

LIST>LIST = todo list.

I think you're finally getting it Earl.  



Sixto said:


> Yep.
> 
> Just thought it was interesting for those that commented that the todo list shouldn't be associated with LIST. On the H21, it does just that.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more. (see above)


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

theratpatrol said:


> BINGO! Just like the TODO List on the HR's is a LIST of up coming shows to be recorded. Therefore is should be tied to the list button.
> 
> LIST = my play list
> 
> ...


So it should be:

List-> ToDo
List-List -> To MyPlaylist...

If we are going to keep things consistant... right?

I don't have any major issues with List-List to appease those that must have some sort of shortcut to the ToDo list...

I just think it is going to lead to more issues... what if that first list doesn't respond quick enough (Which we know happens for a variety of reason), so you hit it a 3rd time... were does it go? Or if that is the 2nd click... and you go right past your playlist to todo... and then have to hit back or exit...

I think that is a big downside to LIST-LIST.


----------



## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So it should be:
> I just think it is going to lead to more issues... what if that first list doesn't respond quick enough (Which we know happens for a variety of reason), so you hit it a 3rd time... were does it go? Or if that is the 2nd click... and you go right past your playlist to todo... and then have to hit back or exit...
> 
> I think that is a big downside to LIST-LIST.


As far as I know there is no such problem with GUIDE>GUIDE.


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So it should be:
> 
> List-> ToDo
> List-List -> To MyPlaylist...
> ...


No, I'm talking for the HR's only.



MrKlaatu said:


> As far as I know there is no such problem with GUIDE>GUIDE.


Exactly, the guide filter is tied to the guide button, GUIDE>GUIDE to get to it.

So the TODO list should be tied to the LIST button, LIST>LIST to get to it.

Why is this so hard to understand?


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So it should be:
> 
> List-> ToDo
> List-List -> To MyPlaylist...
> ...


That is up to Direct Tv. It can be third click is exit, or just back and forth between the list of recordings(MyPlaylist) and the list of upcoming recordings(To-Do). They just belong together IMHO. The exit button is right next to it, so it is easy enough to move and click.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Or ...

Just put *Manage Recordings* FIRST on the Quick Menu!

This gives TWO-CLICK ACCESS to the Scheduler, where To Do, Prioritizer, Queue and the History are within mere clicks away ...


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Or ...
> 
> Just put *Manage Recordings* FIRST on the Quick Menu!
> 
> This gives TWO-CLICK ACCESS to the Scheduler, where To Do, Prioritizer, Queue and the History are within mere clicks away ...


Anything is better than it is now, but I have to say that involving the menu button in anyway means I have to think about what I am doing and consider my actions and look down at the remote. These things should be reserved for changing options. I really do not want to have to go to the menu for anything during normal viewing.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

armophob said:


> Anything is better than it is now, but I have to say that involving the menu button in anyway means I have to think about what I am doing and consider my actions and look down at the remote. These things should be reserved for changing options. I really do not want to have to go to the menu for anything during normal viewing.


I don't know ... Is finding the MENU button on the remote that much more difficult than finding LIST and then YELLOW?  I would think it''s easier to just find MENU ...

... it's centered directly below the arrow keys.


----------



## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> I don't know ... Is finding the MENU button on the remote that much more difficult than finding LIST and then YELLOW? I would think it''s easier to just find MENU ...


Hey wait! You came up with the list-list, and it is a winner. Lets stick with what works. I agree the menu option would be close to the yellow button. But keep in mind we were in My Playlist and thinking about space left and future recordings when we hit yellow for To-Do. 
Besides maybe the yellow button was not as good as the list-list option. Maybe even if they had not created this controversy, you or someone else would have suggested an easier way.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

armophob said:


> Hey wait! You came up with the list-list, and it is a winner. Lets stick with what works. I agree the menu option would be close to the yellow button. But keep in mind we were in My Playlist and thinking about space left and future recordings when we hit yellow for To-Do.
> Besides maybe the yellow button was not as good as the list-list option. Maybe even if they had not created this controversy, you or someone else would have suggested an easier way.


Actually, LIST-LIST was someone else, but I'd take it as a solution too! 

I do have a concern with LIST-LIST that it will cause an uproar among people who used to press LIST a second time to close the Playlist, because now they'd have to pess EXIT to close the Playlist.

If DIRECTV moves "Manage Recordings" to the first item in the Menu, then the only people affected are those who ONLY go to the Playlist from the Quick Menu, because they'd have to press DOWN once to get to it. Since there's a remote button for LIST, I would bet most people use the remote option, so hopefully the number of people affected would be small.


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Xaa said:


> Word.


Word up...


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> This update is the "winter release" and includes an on-screen message that introduces the changes.


And as I recall, we (CE'rs) sort of asked if Directv would do this. Not saying it was because we asked them to. Just happy to see they did it.


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So it should be:
> 
> List-> ToDo
> List-List -> To MyPlaylist...
> ...


Then simply move MANAGE RECORDINGS to the top of the list when you press MENU and we can be done with this. The main purpose of the HR devices is DVR correct? It makes sense that MANAGE RECORDINGS would be the #1 option.


----------



## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why?
> 
> It is underneath MANAGE RECORDINGS...
> 
> Is the usage of the ToDo list to MANAGE what is going to be RECORDED?


Why???? How about because the todo list is one of many lists that one might like to access by pressing the aptly named "list" button.... despite the fact that doing so seems to contradict with the design team's apparent mission to bury highly used functions deeper into the menu structure instead of keeping them more easily accessible.


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> Why???? How about because the todo list is one of many lists that one might like to access by pressing the aptly named "list" button.... despite the fact that doing so seems to contradict with the design team's apparent mission to bury highly used functions deeper into the menu structure instead of keeping them more easily accessible.


I do not get the logic either. I think someone high up in management told them to standardize the menus across the devices, and this is what happened. That really is the only thing that makes sense.

Obviously when you hit LIST to get the list of your recordings, you should be able to MANAGE your recordings from that point. There is no way to do it currently from the LIST menu.


----------



## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Just curious:

Does the *•* yellow button change function on the new software, or does it just go away?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Throckmorton said:


> Just curious:
> 
> Does the *•* yellow button change function on the new software, or does it just go away?


Under LIST, YELLOW brings up a menu of PLAYLIST management options. Under GUIDE, YELLOW brings up GUIDE management functions. Under LIVE TV or PLAYBACK, YELLOW brings up a list of watching/listening options.

/steve


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I think the Priority Screen should come up on List. Actually that screen would be much more useful if it had an indicator on it that showed whether there was a show to be recorded in the next 24 hours...but that's another discussion.


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So it should be:
> 
> List-> ToDo
> List-List -> To MyPlaylist...
> ...


Make it exactly like Guide / Guide-Guide.


----------



## mikek (May 18, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> I do have a concern with LIST-LIST that it will cause an uproar among people who used to press LIST a second time to close the Playlist, because now they'd have to pess EXIT to close the Playlist.
> 
> If DIRECTV moves "Manage Recordings" to the first item in the Menu, then the only people affected are those who ONLY go to the Playlist from the Quick Menu, because they'd have to press DOWN once to get to it. Since there's a remote button for LIST, I would bet most people use the remote option, so hopefully the number of people affected would be small.


Just make it press and hold LIST to bring up the TO DO LIST........just kidding.

I like the LIST-LIST option. It makes sense to me. It should just toggle between the 2. That option is actually better than the original LIST-YELLOW version.

-mk


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Ken S said:


> I think the Priority Screen should come up on List. Actually that screen would be much more useful if it had an indicator on it that showed whether there was a show to be recorded in the next 24 hours...but that's another discussion.


I don't agree about which button, but I hear you. Almost as many voters wanted a shortcut to PRIORITIZER (39 votes) as TODO (43 votes) in this poll. /steve


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> Make it exactly like Guide / Guide-Guide.


I respectfully disagree. GUIDE-GUIDE is broken, IMO. It should be an on/off toggle, just like LIST, MENU, INFO and MINIGUIDE currently are. I don't know how many times I instinctively hit GUIDE to clear it from the screen, and instead get sent to the second GUIDE menu, from where I have to remember to hit EXIT instead of toggling it, like all the other on-screen graphic buttons.

Making button behavior consistent is UI "101". Just my .02. /steve


----------



## Leftcoastdave (Apr 2, 2004)

Late to the party but I think ...

Menu 1 = Playlist
Menu 2 = To Do
Menu 3 = Prioritizer
Menu 4 = Guide
Menu 5 = .....


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Steve said:


> I respectfully disagree. GUIDE-GUIDE is broken, IMO. It should be an on/off toggle, just like LIST, MENU, INFO and MINIGUIDE currently are. I don't know how many times I instinctively hit GUIDE to clear it from the screen, and instead get sent to the second GUIDE menu, from where I have to remember to hit EXIT instead of toggling it, like all the other on-screen graphic buttons.
> 
> Making button behavior consistent is UI "101". Just my .02. /steve


And I don't know how many times I've insitincitvely hit YELLOW to go to the To Do List, and it doesn't work, so I've had no choice but to adapt ...


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Only difference Drew is that one is an instinctive behavior, the other learned. 

I prefer a second List press to exit the Playlist. I like your implementation for quick ToDo.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Xaa said:


> Only difference Drew is that one is an instinctive behavior, the other learned.


True, but outside of self-preservation and a few things I won't name in a family forum, most things probably have to be learned before becoming instinct! 

Consider driving ... or riding a bike ... or pressing EXIT to clear a screen! :lol:


----------



## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Heck, some members have even changed their avatars to express their displeasure


Good idea. I just did that.


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> Good idea. I just did that.


Nice Avatar :lol:


----------



## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> Nice Avatar :lol:


Thanks!


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> Good idea. I just did that.


Scooby To Do, Where Are You?

Where are those meddling kids when you need them!


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> Make it exactly like Guide / Guide-Guide.


I agree. Does anyone ever remember someone complaining that the first GUIDE press was not fast enough? Guide-Guide should be no different in it's usage than LIST-LIST would be. And the powers that be seem to have no problem with GUIDE-GUIDE. This just does not make sense why it is so hard to convince some.


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Steve said:


> I respectfully disagree. GUIDE-GUIDE is broken, IMO. It should be an on/off toggle, just like LIST, MENU, INFO and MINIGUIDE currently are. I don't know how many times I instinctively hit GUIDE to clear it from the screen, and instead get sent to the second GUIDE menu, from where I have to remember to hit EXIT instead of toggling it, like all the other on-screen graphic buttons.
> 
> Making button behavior consistent is UI "101". Just my .02. /steve


Doesn't the 3rd GUIDE clear the screen?


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

gcisko said:


> Doesn't the 3rd GUIDE clear the screen?


I don't believe so.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> I don't believe so.


Correct. GUIDE-GUIDE-GUIDE puts you back on the first GUIDE screen. If you don't select a show, only way out is EXIT. /steve


----------



## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

Steve said:


> Correct. GUIDE-GUIDE-GUIDE puts you back on the first GUIDE screen. If you don't select a show, only way out is EXIT. /steve


This all makes perfect sense:

GUIDE brings up guides
EXIT exits

LIST should bring up lists


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> I don't believe so.


Well I've learned to use EXIT, so I never tried GUIDE-GUIDE-GUIDE. It was just a shot in the dark.


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> Good idea. I just did that.


Love the avatar!

- Craig


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Throckmorton said:


> Just curious:
> 
> Does the *•* yellow button change function on the new software, or does it just go away?


Love your avatar!

- Craig


----------



## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

MrKlaatu wins the to-do avatar contest


----------



## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

MrKlaatu said:


> The menu change on the new release is a disaster.
> 
> The purpose of a DVR is to schedule and watch recorded shows.
> 
> ...


Consistency sometimes trumps convenience, so there's something to be said for placing it under a _Manage Recordings_ menu. But I confess to not having any skin in this game--I already have a _To Do_ macro for my Harmony remote, so I'll just rewrite it.

I've always liked Tivo's approach: numeric shortcut keys from the Main (Tivo) Menu screen:
1=Season Pass/Wish List/Priority manager,
2=To Do,
3=Wish List,
4=Search,
etc.

Although D* doesn't have a Main Menu screen, a similar scheme of shortcut keys could be implemented anytime the pop-over context Menu is visible. For example, _Menu->1_ takes you to the Prioritizer, _Menu->2_ takes you to the To Do screen, etc.

For rookies, a second press of the Menu button would produce a navigable (numbered) menu of the functions that have assigned shortcuts. Each time you visited this second menu, you'd see the number of the function and know that in the future you can reach that function simply by pressing _Menu_ once followed by the shortcut number.

<I'm writing this pretty late--about 2:15 am--so I hope it makes sense.>


----------



## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Love your avatar!
> 
> - Craig


Thanks.

While we're at it, shouldn't [Guide] cycle through guides? I'd like it to toggle between my "Favorites" list(s) and "All Channels".


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Just got the update this morning, and I must say, I absolutely do not like where the TODO list is now. 6 or 8 keystrokes to get to it now? Ridiculous!  

And as far as this Playlist Options menu goes, who the heck came up with that? I mean how many times am I going to ?
"mark programs to delete"
"sort programs by category"
"change order of playlist"
"open/close all"

I've never once used any of those options, and probably never will.

Why didn't they at least put the TODO list option as the first option on this playlist option menu? Or put the "manage my recordings" option on that menu? (pretty much the same thing I guess)

I just don't see how hard it can be to make LIST>LIST a shortcut and be done with it.

Sorry, but I'm very disappointed this morning. :nono2:


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Just got the update this morning, and I must say, I absolutely do not like where the TODO list is now. 6 or 8 keystrokes to get to it now? Ridiculous!
> 
> And as far as this Playlist Options menu goes, who the heck came up with that? I mean how many times am I going to ?
> "mark programs to delete"
> ...


We now know how the closed captioning people felt (at least a little)..


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

theratpatrol:

Go for a long walk.
Watch a sunset.
Make love to your significant other.

It will be all right.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The only thing I can tell you right now is that you're being heard. I don't honestly know how this one will turn out but I do know for a fact that it's being discussed at the very highest levels.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

theratpatrol said:


> "mark programs to delete"
> 
> "open/close all"


what are those used for anyway?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

newsposter said:


> what are those used for anyway?


Mark and Delete...

You are provided with an expanded list of all your shows, where you can "select" (check mark basically) shows.

then when done... select DELETE...

And thus do a single pass, selective mass delete... instead of navigating to each folder and deleting single episodes at once.

Open/Close All....

Basically open and close all the folders, in your MyPlaylist


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Just got the update this morning, and I must say, I absolutely do not like where the TODO list is now. 6 or 8 keystrokes to get to it now? Ridiculous!
> 
> And as far as this Playlist Options menu goes, who the heck came up with that? I mean how many times am I going to ?
> "mark programs to delete"
> ...


While I wouldn't use most of them I didn't even know about the mark programs to delete function untill it showed up here. This menu is a big improvement and was definitely the right thing TO DO.


----------



## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The only thing I can tell you right now is that you're being heard. I don't honestly know how this one will turn out but I do know for a fact that it's being discussed at the very highest levels.


That's good news. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

TigerDriver said:


> *Consistency sometimes trumps convenience*, so there's something to be said for placing it under a _Manage Recordings_ menu. But I confess to not having any skin in this game--I already have a _To Do_ macro for my Harmony remote, so I'll just rewrite it.
> 
> I've always liked Tivo's approach: numeric shortcut keys from the Main (Tivo) Menu screen:
> 1=Season Pass/Wish List/Priority manager,
> ...


I love this. I highlighted the parts that are so cool. Steve has been asking for the Menu-X shortcuts for so long. I love the fact that if you were on the Menu you could Press Menu again and the number shortcuts would appear!

Couldn't you do number shortcuts the same way with the yellow button?

Yellow - 1 (first Options item)
Yellow - 2 (second options item)

- Craig


----------



## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> theratpatrol:
> 
> Go for a long walk.
> Watch a sunset.
> Make love to your significant other.


I love to do those things, but, alas, they're on my to do list--which I can't seem to find right now.


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

TigerDriver said:


> Consistency sometimes trumps convenience, so there's something to be said for placing it under a _Manage Recordings_ menu. But I confess to not having any skin in this game--I already have a _To Do_ macro for my Harmony remote, so I'll just rewrite it.
> 
> I've always liked Tivo's approach: numeric shortcut keys from the Main (Tivo) Menu screen:
> 1=Season Pass/Wish List/Priority manager,
> ...


TigerDriver, your wish is a common one, and it's actually already on the Wish List:



Steve said:


> It was pointed out in another thread that we may not have chosen the optimal key layout for these shortcuts, based on predicted frequency of use. With that in mind, I've changed the request to read as follows:
> *
> Optional "2-click" access to the following features: "Menu-1"=CC TOGGLE, "Menu-2"=CYCLE FAVORITES, "Menu-3"=TO DO LIST, "Menu-4"=PRIORITIZER, "Menu-5"=HISTORY, "Menu-6"=MANUAL RECORD, "Menu-7"=TITLE SEARCH, "Menu-8"=KEYWORD SEARCH, "Menu-9"=SAVED SEARCHES and "Menu-0"=SETUP.*
> 
> The top row are the ones I think will be most clicked. I put "TODO" at #3 to keep all the "Manage Recordings" functions together. I also made the bottom row the "Search" row, with "Setup" all by itself at "0". /steve


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

For ease of transition, I would say to keep the Menu-X numbers as similar as possible to the old DIRECTiVo's TIVO-X system. As I did some research on this, many claim that TiVo chose these shortcuts in that order because they are the most used features without a dedicated remote button.

Here is the list of more TiVo Menu shortcuts reworded with DIRECTV terminology:


```
Hotlink  HR20 Function		Old TiVo Name
------   -------------		--------------------
Menu 0	 Setup	 		TiVo guy movie
Menu 1	 Prioritizer	 	Season Pass Manager
Menu 2	 To Do list		To Do List
Menu 3	 Search: Recent 	Wishlists
Menu 4	 Search: Title 		Browse By Name
Menu 5	 Search: Channel	Browse By Channel
Menu 6	 Search: Date & Time 	Browse By Time
Menu 7	 Manual Record 		Record Time/Channel
Menu 8	 Cycle Favorite Chan	Suggestions
Menu 9	 History	 	Showcases
```
DIRECTV already has the CC button easy to use now.

- Craig


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The only thing I can tell you right now is that you're being heard. I don't honestly know how this one will turn out but I do know for a fact that it's being discussed at the very highest levels.


Thanks Shadow.

Personally, I don't use todo that much, so MENU, a few DOWN's, and two SELECT's aren't a big deal, but could see it as a problem for those checking often.

Actually, the current implementation is easier on the thumb. MENU/DOWN/SELECT are very close together. Hitting YELLOW involves thought to get the thumb between the GREEN and BLUE buttons. I never look at the remote.

It just seemed like LIST-LIST was so simple and hurt nothing.

For me, I never ever leave the LIST by hitting LIST again. Hit LIST and always leave by either SELECTing a show or hitting EXIT. A 2nd LIST is never. And EXIT is right next to LIST.

LIST-LIST just seems so easy.

Ah well ...


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:



> I love this. I highlighted the parts that are so cool. Steve has been asking for the Menu-X shortcuts for so long. I love the fact that if you were on the Menu you could Press Menu again and the number shortcuts would appear!
> 
> Couldn't you do number shortcuts the same way with the yellow button?
> 
> ...


Glad you like the idea. The first press press of the Menu key is broadly analogous to double-clicking with a mouse, the second press with right-clicking. In this case, however, context-sensitive items would be on the first Menu, and the menu would be sensitive to numeric short-cut keys.

My hunch is that after users used Menu.Menu.Arrow.Select a few times, they would naturally remember the numbers beside the function they selected, and soon learn to use Menu.Number instead.

Sure you could implement this on the Yellow key, but it seems more natural to _all_ functional navigation to a key labeld *Menu *. In addition, it's a portable implementation. For example, had navigation been done this way, there would be no need to add secondary color buttons on Harmony remotes.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> For ease of transition, I would say to keep the Menu-X numbers as similar as possible to old DIRECTiVo's TIVO-X system. As I did some research on this, many claim that TiVo claims chose these shortcuts as the most used features without a dedicated remtoe button.
> 
> Here is the list of more TiVo Menu shortcuts reworded with DIRECTV terminology:
> 
> ...


Craig - In your Translation, MENU 3 should be "Saved Searches". TiVo Wishlists are exactly that - saved searches.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Craig - In your Translation, MENU 3 should be "Saved Searches". TiVo Wishlists are exactly that - saved searches.


Corrected:

```
Hotlink  HR20 Function		Old TiVo Name
------   -------------		--------------------
Menu 0	 Setup	 		TiVo guy movie
Menu 1	 Prioritizer	 	Season Pass Manager
Menu 2	 To Do list		To Do List
Menu 3	 Search: Recent 	Wishlists
Menu 4	 Search: Title 		Browse By Name
Menu 5	 Search: Channel	Browse By Channel
Menu 6	 Search: Date & Time 	Browse By Time
Menu 7	 Manual Record 		Record Time/Channel
Menu 8	 Cycle Favorite Chan	Suggestions
Menu 9	 History	 	Showcases
```
- Craig


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## rjf (Mar 9, 2007)

for what it's worth, i like how it is now. i never really used To Do before, but now i actually use it more and like how the menu works.


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

AirRocker said:


> MrKlaatu wins the to-do avatar contest


Barada nikto!


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm not a fan of the MENU-MENU idea at all. I want all my graphics buttons to clear on the second press, as they do now, except for GUIDE, which should be fixed, IMO. I think GUIDE categories should move under the GUIDE options YELLOW BUTTON. This will enable all the "on-screen" graphics button operate the same way from a UI standpoint. Just my .02.

If they implement them, DirecTV can just put a list of the Menu-# shortcuts under HELP. Folks can refer to it until they get used to where the shortcuts are. Of course, if you program these into MACROS, then you just have to refer to the "cheat sheet" once.

The way it's proposed now, the SEARCH functions are all on the bottom row, so that should be easy to remember, along with SETUP at "0". TODO should probably be Menu-2, but someone suggested keeping all the "manage recordings" setups together. DirecTV can decide, I guess. The most frequently accessed should be on the top row, IMO, for ease of finding them without looking.

CC is on the list because in the POLL we ran on which features should have MENU shortcuts, it scored as high as any feature, except TODO and PRIORITIZER. And if you want to make a macro for it, you can with this implementation. Right now you can't, under YELLOW, because it's position floats.

/steve


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Steve said:


> I'm not a fan of the MENU-MENU idea at all. I want all my graphics buttons to clear on the second press, as they do now, except for GUIDE, which should be fixed, IMO. I think GUIDE categories should move under the GUIDE options YELLOW BUTTON. This will enable all the "on-screen" graphics button operate the same way from a UI standpoint. Just my .02.
> 
> If they implement them, DirecTV can just put a list of the Menu-# shortcuts under HELP. Folks can refer to it until they get used to where the shortcuts are. Of course, if you program these into MACROS, then you just have to refer to the "cheat sheet" once.
> 
> ...


Steve, that poll did not ask what order the menu shortcuts should be in.

Why not use the order that people might already know? The order that TiVo tested and found was best. TiVo tweaked those shortcuts many times before ending up with this list in this order.

- Craig


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Steve, that poll did not ask what order the menu shortcuts should be in.
> 
> Why not use the order that people might already know? The order that TiVo tested and found was best. TiVo tweaked those shortcuts many times before ending up with this list in this order.
> 
> - Craig


I didn't ask for order, just which features. The order was thought out afterwards. If DirecTV implements this, they'll choose the order anyway. And you need a CC shortcut so you can make a reliable macro. /steve


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## BersaMan II (Nov 16, 2007)

Throckmorton said:


> I have an HR-21 which still has *•* To Do.
> 
> I\'ll sell it to the highest bidder.
> 
> (The *•* yellow button, not the HR-21)


Give \'em time and they will take it away on the HR-21s too!


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Steve said:


> I didn't ask for order, just which features. The order was thought out afterwards. If DirecTV implements this, they'll choose the order anyway. And you need a CC shortcut so you can make a reliable macro. /steve


But why even suggest the inconsistency of User Interface as users migrate from TiVo to the HR21?

That alone may give the reason they need to not even consider it: "We are not going to do more work to make it less consistent."

It is easier to explain to someone that we want a function like TiVo had.

Also note that the poll was asking if someone preferred a menu numbering system to match the order of the menu items or a TiVo like approach. Of the 68 people who participated, many wanted number menus. That's a small sampling and far from a conclusive result.

Your Top 3 almost match to TiVo's Top 3: Menu - 0, Menu - 1, Menu - 2.

Respondents may have included CC because the new 2-step CC was (is) not out yet. I am one of the 23 who voted for CC. Now that I have CC so easy I do not want to use up a Menu button for it.

The order of the next 5 vary by a few percentage points.

I would love for the transition to the HR21 to be as intuitive as possible. The user may be used to pressing TiVo 2 for To Do , now it is Menu 2. Why arbitrarily change the mapping that people already know?

More importantly I do not want to give a developer as easy way out of even considering this idea.

- Craig


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> But why even suggest the inconsistency of User Interface as users migrate from TiVo to the HR21?
> 
> That alone may give the reason they need to not even consider it: "We are not going to do more work to make it less consistent."
> 
> It is easier to explain to someone that we want a function like TiVo had.


I believe that's just what we are doing, though it can never work exactly the same, since TiVo had shortcuts to features that don't exist on the HR20.

In another thread, a couple of folks pointed out that the "reach" to "0" for TODO as originally proposed was not convenient. Same with grouping the "Manage Recording" and "Search" shortcuts togther. That was someone else's idea and no one voiced any objections to it. I was just trying to be accommodating to thoughtful and reasonable posts folks contributed to the topic.

I really have no dog in this hunt. I could care less which shortcuts were where, as long as we get shortcuts period. I"m just happy about having the idea on the Wish List for DirecTV to consider. I assume if they do implement them, it will first be in a CE, and we'll be able to give them feedback on whether or not the positioning they ultimately choose works for us. Just my .02.

As for CC's, I believe the vote was high because the macro users wanted to be able to program a reliable macro for it. /steve


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Steve said:


> I didn't ask for order, just which features. The order was thought out afterwards. If DirecTV implements this, they'll choose the order anyway. And you need a CC shortcut so you can make a reliable macro. /steve


I don't care what order the menu shortcuts are in, but where there is overlap with the TiVo menus (Prioritizer, To DoRecent Search), I have no objection to use the same number (1, 2, 3). However, I don't think DIRECTV needs to re-create all TiVo shortcuts. For instance, having a shortcut to CC is something many people want, so that should be up there replacing one of the TiVo commands.

Those TiVo shortcuts have also been around forever, so they could use some refreshing. Do we really need all the Search By X options? I see that Craig put History and Cycle Favorite Channels in his "menu command shortcut" list, but these could have been any other commands: CC, for example, or VOD Queue, or Purchases, or Help, or Caller ID, or On Demand, etc. That a poll was conducted to pick what goes into the 10 shortcuts - that should not be discounted...


----------



## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Carl Spock said:


> theratpatrol:
> 
> Go for a long walk.
> Watch a sunset.
> ...


Yeah I know. Being at work all day helped. Thanks. 

I guess its just something I'm going to have to get used to, just like when I first got the HR20.

If they can't make LIST>LIST, how about (and I will settle for)
LIST>Yellow button> and add "manage my recordings" to the top of that menu screen? That will take to the TODO list too.

Now that would be good too, 3 button pushes instead of 6 to 8. Something better then what they have now. I don't know.

I do like the overall menu changes though, (most of them) and of course the 30 second skip now. But now I'm not sure which I like better, slip or skip? Slip is good for sports, football, hockey, because you can see whats going on, but of course, skip is good for, well, you know (I won't say that too loud). 

And sorry I got so upset this morning (and in the past). I don't mean to take this out on everyone, or anyone in particular. I guess I just can't figure out why they would take away something that has worked so well, something that wasn't broken, and replace with it 6 to 8 steps.  

And thanks to everyone for all of the information you provide on here, this is a great place.

Ok, sorry for the rant..........


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

i havent seen this answer but can someone tell me why they cant just put back the things to the way they were?


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i havent seen this answer but can someone tell me why they cant just put back the things to the way they were?


I'm sure they can. The issue is more likely that they don't want to. Overall the change was very positive. It's only this To Do issue that needs to be addressed and there are many options to do that. I don't think anyone who have been using this new structure is advocating going back to the way it was.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

newsposter said:


> i havent seen this answer but can someone tell me why they cant just put back the things to the way they were?


Because then they will need to find a new button to have the context menu dialog... and then the same argument will ensue.

They wanted a single button accross all screens, that will bring up the context sensitive menu.

Which button, in all screens... didn't have a function?

As for why they don't revert the entire menu structure back to the way it was. Why should they? Outside of this ToDo list argument...

I think almost all the other changes have been pretty possitively appriciated by everyone.


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## MrKlaatu (Mar 8, 2007)

They should keep all the changes and merely add the LIST?LIST shortcut to get to the ToDo list.

It's rare that something that upsets so many people has such a simple solution. Jump on it!


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

MrKlaatu said:


> They should keep all the changes and merely add the LIST?LIST shortcut to get to the ToDo list.
> 
> It's rare that something that upsets so many people has such a simple solution. Jump on it!


The fact that something with a simple solution is still out there, does make one wonder what the problem with List/List is. Does anyone know why this is bad from the HR20 programming point of view?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

gcisko said:


> The fact that something with a simple solution is still out there, does make one wonder what the problem with List/List is. Does anyone know why this is bad from the HR20 programming point of view?


The programmers, are not always the ones with the final say...
Especially when it comes to GUI related things.


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## rrcrosby (Dec 17, 2006)

This is another example of the people who write the software and design the equipment never use it.

All any company has to do to keep this kind of mess from happening is require that their software people and their design people use the products they create before sending them out in the field.

Beta testers are fine but the disconnect between design and use is killing product innovation.

Always remember salesman and designers are not customers they do not buy your product.
At best all you can do is force them to become users.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

gcisko said:


> The fact that something with a simple solution is still out there, does make one wonder what the problem with List/List is. Does anyone know why this is bad from the HR20 programming point of view?


Speaking for myself, I sure hope they don't implement List-List.

I like that 4 of the 5 remote on-screen graphic buttons are currently "on/off" toggles (LIST, INFO, MENU and MINIGUIDE). I hope that they'll do the same with GUIDE, and move the second press of GUIDE's functionality to the new GUIDE YELLOW button.

Just my .02. /steve


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Steve said:


> Speaking for myself, I sure hope they don't implement List-List.
> 
> I like that 4 of the 5 remote on-screen graphic buttons are currently "on/off" toggles (LIST, INFO, MENU and MINIGUIDE). I hope that they'll do the same with GUIDE, and move the second press of GUIDE's functionality to the new GUIDE YELLOW button.
> 
> Just my .02. /steve


+1. There are a bazillion other ways to give a ToDo shortcut that won't include degrading another user action.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rrcrosby said:


> This is another example of the people who write the software and design the equipment never use it.


Every developer and executive that is on the HR2* process...
Has the systems in their cubes at work, and in their homes.

Some of them have used the HR2* platform significantly longer then any of you here... and have put it through it's paces in many different ways.

There are also UI teams at DirecTV, that have gone through multiple varriations of the GUI interface to come up with what we have today...
Which includes multi-tude of factors that cover the ENTIRE targeted customer base.



rrcrosby said:


> All any company has to do to keep this kind of mess from happening is require that their software people and their design people use the products they create before sending them out in the field.
> 
> Beta testers are fine but the disconnect between design and use is killing product innovation.
> 
> ...


It actually is a requirement of the development team, that they use the systems in their daily TV usage.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Xaa said:


> +1. There are a bazillion other ways to give a ToDo shortcut that won't include degrading another user action.


+100


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Put Manage Recordings as Option #1 on the Quick Menu. Two seconds for the developer to change it. MENU > SELECT > SELECT to get to the To Do List. End of story!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> Put Manage Recordings as Option #1 on the Quick Menu. Two seconds for the developer to change it. MENU > SELECT > SELECT to get to the To Do List. End of story!


Like I said... it is not always the developers who get to make that decision.


----------



## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There are also UI teams at DirecTV, that have gone through multiple varriations of the GUI interface to come up with what we have today...


I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


----------



## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The programmers, are always the ones with the final say...
> Especially when it comes to GUI related things.





Earl Bonovich said:


> Like I said... it is not always the developers who get to make that decision.










http://www.sizethis.com/s/b/super_smilies032.gif


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Like I said... it is not always the developers who get to make that decision.


I know, I know ... 

I'll just keep hoping that this simple solution is implemented because the eyeballs of the proper DIRECTV person saw it!


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sirshagg said:


> http://www.sizethis.com/s/b/super_smilies032.gif


Thanks..

Fixed the first quote.


----------



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Because then they will need to find a new button to have the context menu dialog... and then the same argument will ensue.
> 
> They wanted a single button accross all screens, that will bring up the context sensitive menu.


what's a context sensitive menu?


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

newsposter said:


> what's a context sensitive menu?


A menu that offers features related to the place you launched it from.

The same YELLOW BUTTON offers different options when pressed from GUIDE, PLAYLIST or LIVE TV/RECORDING PLAYBACK. /steve


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

newsposter said:


> what's a context sensitive menu?


Just like in Microsoft Office, if you right-click in a table cell you have certain options that are not present if you click a regular paragraph, the old software for the HR20 had a context sensitive Quick Menu.

When you were in Guide, if you pressed MENU there were some commands that only appeared when the Guide was up. Same for Playlist. Now DIRECTV moved them to the YELLOW key to make them more visible, because few people knew they were on the Quick Menu in the first place.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> Now DIRECTV moved them to the YELLOW key to make them more visible, because few people knew they were on the Quick Menu in the first place.


And to make the MENU button identical, no matter where you are in the system.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And to make the MENU button identical, no matter where you are in the system.


Hey. Didn't I just say that? :lol: Now I know how *VOS* feels! /steve


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Steve said:


> Hey. Didn't I just say that? :lol: Now I know how *VOS* feels! /steve


Yes...

I was just adding to Drew's comments


----------



## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Like I said... it is not always the developers who get to make that decision.


Yep I was affraid of that. Who knows what goes into these decisions? We may never know. At some point if you give enough information as best you can, and they still do not go for it, perhaps it *is* time to move on.

Since TODO is programmed into my remote as a macro I am currently OK. But since I care (yes you read that right, I care) I would advocate it go somewhere better placed than it is now.

Also the biggest worry for me is what is next? As you say, it is not always the developers who make the decisions. I just worry about things that are currently useful that may get taken away. I have no idea what that may be. But quite frankly I never thought in 1,000,000 years this would happen to TODO. So... :eek2:


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> ...If they can't make LIST>LIST, how about (and I will settle for)
> LIST>Yellow button> and add "manage my recordings" to the top of that menu screen? That will take to the TODO list too...
> 
> I do like the overall menu changes though, (most of them) and of course the 30 second skip now. But now I'm not sure which I like better, slip or skip? Slip is good for sports, football, hockey, because you can see whats going on, but of course, skip is good for, well, you know (I won't say that too loud).
> ...


I would also be fine if they put Manage Recordings On the List Options Menu.

Manage Recording has nothing to do with TO DO or Prioritizer but whatever name you want to call it...

I keep coming back to this quesiton:

_Why doesn't DIRECTV use one line of the new List Options Menu (old To Do Button) to just offer To Do as an option instead of taking two lines to say To Do is not there?_

- Craig


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> _Why doesn't DIRECTV use one line of the new List Options Menu (old To Do Button) to just offer To Do as an option instead of taking two lines to say To Do is not there?_


1) Because DirecTV (I asked and I agree with it)... Feel that ToDo is not related to your list of already recorded programming...

2) Which line?
1- 3 Button pusshes
2- 4 Button Pushes
3- 5 Button Pushes
4- 6 Button Pushes (same as it is now)


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> _Why doesn't DIRECTV use one line of the new List Options Menu (old To Do Button: LIST>Yellow) to just offer To Do as an option instead of taking two lines to say To Do is not there?_


Since you've now asked this question three times AFAIK, I'll ask you the same question I've asked twice before. Maybe you'll answer it this time? :lol:

Do you not agree that DirecTV is trying to keep like functions together, and that TODO list has nothing to do with PLAYLIST management?

If so, there's really no other way for you to ask your question. You just have a fundamental disagreement with DirecTV's view on which functions should be grouped together. The message that the function has moved is just a courtesy to tell users who may be looking for TODO there that can now find it a different way.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that once this national roll-out is complete, that message will be removed in the next national release.

/steve


----------



## EricBergan (Apr 27, 2007)

Steve said:


> Do you not agree that DirecTV is trying to keep like functions together, and that TODO list has nothing to do with PLAYLIST management?
> 
> /steve


Actually, I don't agree. ToDo is my future Playlist.

So to me, managing the playlist would include managing the future recordings on ToDo, which, as it turns out, is something I do much more frequently than many of the other top level functions.

eric


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

EricBergan said:


> Actually, I don't agree. ToDo is my future Playlist.
> 
> So to me, managing the playlist would include managing the future recordings on ToDo, which, as it turns out, is something I do much more frequently than many of the other top level functions.
> 
> eric


Different stokes, I guess. To my way of looking at it, the YELLOW BUTTON functions now under PLAYLIST are all intended to manage the way the PLAYLIST is viewed, or to "MARK and DELETE" existing recordings. The TODO list has no relation to any of these functions.

It is related to the whole set of functions dedicated to "future recording" management under the "Manage Recordings" menu, however. An ambiguously named menu, I'll admit, as others have pointed out.

And :welcome_s to DBSTalk. /steve


----------



## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Manage Recording has nothing to do with TO DO or Prioritizer


I would agree if the menu item were _Manage Recordings_, where _Recordings_ is a plural noun referring to things already recorded.

But, as I understand it, the menu item is _Manage Recording_, where _Recording_ is a participle, which causes the phrase to mean "Manage the Recording Process," to which the To Do list and Prioritizer are obvious related.


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TigerDriver said:


> I would agree if the menu item were _Manage Recordings_, where _Recordings_ is a plural noun referring to things already recorded.
> 
> But, as I understand it, the menu item is _Manage Recording_, where _Recording_ is a participle, which causes the phrase to mean "Manage the Recording Process," to which the To Do list and Prioritizer are obvious related.


Yup. It's a past recording / future recording separation of church and state, a metaphor borrowed from the DirecTivos that preceded the HR2x's. /steve


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> ..._Why doesn't DIRECTV use one line of the new List Options Menu (old To Do Button) to just offer To Do as an option instead of taking two lines to say To Do is not there?_
> 
> - Craig





Earl Bonovich said:


> 1) Because DirecTV (I asked and I agree with it)... Feel that ToDo is not related to your list of already recorded programming...
> 
> 2) Which line?
> 1- 3 Button pusshes
> ...


Earl,

This is not about keystrokes. It is about consistency. Over a zillion manuals tell users they can reach To Do by pressing LIST>Yellow.

Even on the H20 and H21 you get to the To Do List by just pressing LIST.

As to the question is To Do related to Recordings? DIRECTV sure seems to think so. Otherwise To Do would not be the top entry under the Manage Recordings Menu.

So why not use a Manage Recordings Link instead of a To Do link?

I am fine with a List Option of Manage Recordings. Instead of To Do, give the Manage Recordings link in the List Options menu.

That way the user can quickly get to all of the Manage Recordings Options when he is in his Playlist managing his recordings.

Let me try to ask the the question better:

_Why doesn't DIRECTV use one line of the new List Options Menu (old To Do Button) to just offer Manage Recordings as an option instead of taking two lines to say To Do is not there?_

- Craig


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> 1) Because DirecTV (I asked and I agree with it)... Feel that ToDo is not related to your list of already recorded programming...
> 
> 2) Which line?
> 1- 3 Button pusshes
> ...


4. yellow>channel down>enter


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

houskamp said:


> 4. yellow>channel down>enter


Love it!

- Craig


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

EricBergan said:


> Actually, I don't agree. ToDo is my future Playlist.
> 
> So to me, managing the playlist would include managing the future recordings on ToDo, which, as it turns out, is something I do much more frequently than many of the other top level functions.
> 
> eric


Add one to my, team! So there, Steve!


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

another idea....

Why can't the color buttons work in the context sensitive menu's - Press yellow when in the playlist menu for ToDo?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> 1) Because DirecTV (I asked and I agree with it)... Feel that ToDo is not related to your list of already recorded programming...
> 
> 2) Which line?
> 1- 3 Button pusshes
> ...


Earl's argument is exactly the reason why I think having Manage Recordings as the first option on the Quick Menu is the best solution. If To Do List is added to any Option menu, then SOMEONE is not going to be happy if it's NOT the first item!

Putting Manage Recordings first on the Quick Menu means only three clicks to To Do List from ANYWHERE at ALL TIMES: MENU > SELECT > SELECT.

For those who don't use the LIST button on the remote, the change to the Quick Menu means they would have three clicks to get to the Playlist: MENU > DOWN > SELECT. This brings minimal "pain" to the small population of users who access their playlist from the Quick Menu, but if they find it too painful", they can learn to use the single-button click of LIST on the remote. However, this change also brings great joy to users who access To Do List frequently, who DON'T have a dedicated button on the remote. EVERYONE WINS!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

houskamp said:


> 4. yellow>channel down>enter


But that's four clicks to get to the To Do List:

LIST > YELLOW > PG-DN > SELECT.

Wouldn't you rather have only three clicks?

MENU > SELECT > SELECT

The three-click approach above would work from ANYWHERE in the interface, but requires DIRECTV to move MANAGE RECORDINGS to the first position in the Quick Menu. This is the guaranteed shortest path to the To Do List.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> But that's four clicks to get to the To Do List:
> 
> LIST > YELLOW > PG-DN > SELECT.
> 
> ...


quite frankly I almost never use the menu.. I'd settle for it on the yellow button.. 
List = current recordings
manage recordings = the way to control them..


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

It wouldn't really matter to me where they put if they were smart enough to also have shortcuts off the number buttons for the different areas like Tivo does...

Menu, 1 - would take you to prioritizer
Menu, 2 - would take you to todo list
etc.

I couldn't even tell you where you would find the todo list in the menus on my Tivos.... I just always press (D), 2 to bring up the todo list


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> It wouldn't really matter to me where they put if they were smart enough to also have shortcuts off the number buttons for the different areas like Tivo does...
> 
> Menu, 1 - would take you to prioritizer
> Menu, 2 - would take you to todo list
> ...


+1. It's currently #12 of 73 on our "TODO" list, the Wish List:
*
Optional "2-click" access to the following features: "Menu-1"=CC TOGGLE, "Menu-2"=TODO LIST, "Menu-3"=CYCLE FAVORITES, "Menu-4"=PRIORITIZER, "Menu-5"=HISTORY, "Menu-6"=MANUAL RECORD, "Menu-7"=TITLE SEARCH, "Menu-8"=KEYWORD SEARCH, "Menu-9"=SAVED SEARCHES and "Menu-0"=SETUP.*

/steve


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## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

If they put the ToDo back where it belongs, or fix the problem in one of the other suggested ways they will be admitting they made a mistake. Are they capable of doing that? I doubt it.

I suggest that everyone that wants it back the way it should be, or at least made easier to use, go the DirecTV site log in and send them and email. Sorry if this has already been suggested, I didn't read all 8 pages.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tumbleweed said:


> If they put the ToDo back where it belongs, or fix the problem in one of the other suggested ways they will be admitting they made a mistake. Are they capable of doing that? I doubt it.


I respectfully disagree. By reorganizing the menus logically last month, they admitted they made a mistake with the original layout on day one. I give them a lot of credit for that.

Just my .02. /steve


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## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

Steve said:


> I respectfully disagree. By reorganizing the menus logically last month, they admitted they made a mistake with the original layout on day one. I give them a lot of credit for that.
> 
> Just my .02. /steve


I wasn't aware they had done anything with the menus last month. I received and upgrade on 11/7/07 and one last night.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Earl,
> This is not about keystrokes. It is about consistency. Over a zillion manuals tell users they can reach To Do by pressing LIST>Yellow.
> 
> Even on the H20 and H21 you get to the To Do List by just pressing LIST.
> ...


Not about keystrokes ? huh?
That is what this entire argument has been about... how long it now takes.

The fact is, the system is VERY consistant now... and since the HR20/21 platform is the first in these changes...

There are also a zillion manuals that have other functions for the red button, and don't show the new menu structure... and teh fact that DoD and other things are not even in there.

You do not have a MyPlaylist on the H20/21

So we should change the first press of the LIST to be the ToDo... and the second to the LIST... if you want to keep the two system consistant... correct?

As I pointed out the last time you made that statement about ToDo being important.... *YES THEY UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS PROBABLY THE #1 USED MANAGED RECORDING OPTION* and hence why it is the first option there.

Still doesn't make it the #1 feature on the box.... nor doesn't guarantee that it must be a 2 button solution...

And to answer your last question...

What is the point then?
You have it on your MENU button... right there...
Why have it in two menus?

Should it be removed from the MENU... and then added to the context sensitive of the MyPlaylist?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I miss the List- Yellow combo as well.

But what's funny is that my wife could never find the ToDo list (she could never remember the shortcut, the colored buttons mystify I guess). But now I showed her to go to Manage Recordings and she says to me "now that makes sense to me" like it was the most obvious thing in the world.  

Maybe DirecTV talked to her before designing this GUI change? :lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tumbleweed said:


> If they put the ToDo back where it belongs, or fix the problem in one of the other suggested ways they will be admitting they made a mistake. Are they capable of doing that? I doubt it.
> 
> I suggest that everyone that wants it back the way it should be, or at least made easier to use, go the DirecTV site log in and send them and email. Sorry if this has already been suggested, I didn't read all 8 pages.


Really... so now this argument has gotten down to a "pump the chest" pride thing? Seriously now... is that the level of the discussion has gotten too?

Too proud to admit they made a mistake....

If you have followed the CE program at all.. not everything that has been introduced there... has made it to national releases in the same form.

Heck even these updates whet through some tweeking before finally getting ready to go out.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tumbleweed said:


> I wasn't aware they had done anything with the menus last month. I received and upgrade on 11/7/07 and one last night.


These menu changes have been in the hands of over 2,000+ people that downloaded the CE versions, for about 6+ weeks now.

So it has been out there for a while, in the hands of customers that wanted to have it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Maybe DirecTV talked to her before designing this GUI change? :lol:


You hit the nail on the head. The GUI change was made for the 90% of users who don't frequent DBSTalk, like mom mom and my kids.  /steve


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Even on the H20 and H21 you get to the To Do List by just pressing LIST.


Are you sure? What exactly does one have TODO on a H20 or H21? I am surprised LIST does anything on a non DVR box.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

gcisko said:


> Are you sure? What exactly does one have TODO on a H20 or H21? I am surprised LIST does anything on a non DVR box.


AutoTunes


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Add one to my, team! So there, Steve!


Hey, if we can't keep each other honest, what's the fun of discussion and debate? :lol: /steve


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Really... so now this argument has gotten down to a "pump the chest" pride thing? Seriously now... is that the level of the discussion has gotten too?
> 
> Too proud to admit they made a mistake....


I certainly do not believe that. I do believe as you said the decisions are made at a higher level. That was the implication anyway. I also think things are said behind the cloak of the internet that would never be said face to face.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> AutoTunes


Oh... What is that? A music thing?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

gcisko said:


> Oh... What is that? A music thing?


Basically... a timer.

It would allow those units, to tune to a specific channel at a specific time.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Basically... a timer.
> 
> It would allow those units, to tune to a specific channel at a specific time.


It's also a feature that some DirecTV customers would like to see on their DVRs as well...


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

tumbleweed said:


> If they put the ToDo back where it belongs, or fix the problem in one of the other suggested ways they will be admitting they made a mistake. Are they capable of doing that? I doubt it.
> 
> I suggest that everyone that wants it back the way it should be, or at least made easier to use, go the DirecTV site log in and send them and email. Sorry if this has already been suggested, I didn't read all 8 pages.


I wouldn't exactly say that it belongs where it used to be. The new menu layout actually is more logical than it used to be. For example, getting to the prioritizer screen used to require an illogical convoluted journey through the todo screen before the latest menu changes were implemented. I don't think that they made any big mistake that needs to be reversed. It would just be nice if in addition to the new layout they also provided some parallel shortcuts the way Tivo does using the number buttons.


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## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Really... so now this argument has gotten down to a "pump the chest" pride thing? Seriously now... is that the level of the discussion has gotten too?
> 
> Too proud to admit they made a mistake....
> 
> ...


Oh my, a CE user. Please forgive me for being disrespectful. I don't worship at the alter of DirecTV as some of you apparently do.

Seriously now . . . if I am wrong and they fix the ToDo problem in a timely manner I will be the first to congratulate them for doing the right thing. If this release went through any "tweeking" before going out it didn't work.


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## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> I wouldn't exactly say that it belongs where it used to be. The new menu layout actually is more logical than it used to be. For example, getting to the prioritizer screen used to require an illogical convoluted journey through the todo screen before the latest menu changes were implemented. I don't think that they made any big mistake that needs to be reversed. It would just be nice if in addition to the new layout they also provided some parallel shortcuts the way Tivo does using the number buttons.


Your right, as an average user I too think the menu structure should be logical. I would be very happy with a short cut to the todo list. I want it to be user friendly and I guess that means fewer key strokes for things I use frequently.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tumbleweed said:


> I want it to be user friendly and I guess that means fewer key strokes for things I use frequently.


Have you timed how long it actually takes you now (menu-arrows-select) vs. looking at the remote to find List-Yellow? You may be surprised how little difference there is. A second in my case. If it's a matter of Harmony-remote macros, that's another issue. /steve


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Steve said:


> Have you timed how long it actually takes you now (menu-arrows-select) vs. looking at the remote to find List-Yellow? You may be surprised how little difference there is. A second in my case. If it's a matter of Harmony-remote macros, that's another issue. /steve


Totally agree with this comment.

Hitting any color button for any function slows things down ...

LIST-LIST.

Oh, and all this talk of Menu plus # keys ... oh geez ... only for macros I guess ...


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## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

Steve said:


> Have you timed how long it actually takes you now (menu-arrows-select) vs. looking at the remote to find List-Yellow? You may be surprised how little difference there is. A second in my case. If it's a matter of Harmony-remote macros, that's another issue. /steve


Steve you may be right, I'll time myself this evening. But it sure seems awkward and I still think it was a mistake to make it more difficult because it is an often used function.

I just tried the new 30SKIP function and I like having the choice. Haven't used any of the new stuff on the "list" for arranging the programs yet but that looks interesting also.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Totally agree with this comment.
> 
> Hitting any color button for any function slows things down ...
> 
> ...


On the TiVo platform, the MENU plus # keys were lifesavers for many, well before macros. I haven't really used my TiVo for over 6 months, but I can still rattle off the ones I used all the time for well over 4 years, and here's how I remembered them:

Menu + 1 = Season Pass Manager ["First you need a season pass"]
Menu + 2 = To Do List ["Two for TO do"]
Menu + 3 = Wish Lists ["Three wishes ..."]

The great things about numbered shortcuts is they are unobtrusive (they're not displayed on the menu), they are not the ONLY way to do something (the original menu paths are also there), no one is forced to use them if they don't want to, and it only takes TWO keystrokes to get to very important places in the UI.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Steve said:


> Have you timed how long it actually takes you now (menu-arrows-select) vs. looking at the remote to find List-Yellow? You may be surprised how little difference there is. A second in my case. If it's a matter of Harmony-remote macros, that's another issue. /steve


But just that lack of convenience is enough that it gets forgotten and not done as often. I have missed 2 conflicts already. Just like putting your medications in a drawer instead of up on the counter.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> The great things about numbered shortcuts is they are unobtrusive (they're not displayed on the menu), they are not the ONLY way to do something (the original menu paths are also there), no one is forced to use them if they don't want to, and it only takes TWO keystrokes to get to very important places in the UI.


Yep Drew, unobtrusive is the key ... so doesn't hurt to add ...

I thought LIST-LIST was unobtrusive but I guess some folks actually hit LIST twice. I always EXIT.

To each his/her own ...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Sixto said:


> I thought LIST-LIST was unobtrusive but I guess some folks actually it LIST twice. I always EXIT.


I'm pretty sure hitting EXIT was a learned reflex for you, not an instinctive one.

To new users, it's instinctive to hit the button that turns something on when first trying to turn it off. Just like flipping a light switch. I've observed this kind of behavior after monitoring 20 years of user focus groups for application developers I've worked with.

Just my .02. /steve


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Steve said:


> I'm pretty sure hitting EXIT was a learned reflex for you, not an instinctive one.
> 
> To new users, it's instinctive to hit the button that turns something on when first trying to turn it off. Just like flipping a light switch. I've observed this kind of behavior after monitoring 20 years of user focus groups for application developers I've worked with.
> 
> Just my .02. /steve


Interesting.

I guess after a year plus hitting EXIT it's now a reflex. Never thought of it that way but now that you mention it ...


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## cadet502 (Jun 17, 2005)

For me, hitting EXIT became habit as soon as I decided (in my mind) that EXIT="Live TV".


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I guess after a year plus hitting EXIT it's now a reflex. Never thought of it that way but now that you mention it ...


Congrats on 1k posts, BTW!  /steve


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## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

Well Steve I gave it an honest try last night (menu-arrow,arrow-select,select) and I must admit it wasn't as bad as I first thought it would be. I can learn to live with it but I won't learn to like it as well as the old way (yellow button). Some kind of shortcut with one or two button pushes, that would be fine.

When I first found out about the change yesterday morning I must admit I wasn't at all happy. For me it was like getting into my car and finding someone had put the turn signal lever on the other side of the steering column overnight without asking first.  

Thanks to everyone for a very interesting topic.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tumbleweed said:


> Well Steve I gave it an honest try last night (menu-arrow,arrow-select,select) and I must admit it wasn't as bad as I first thought it would be. I can learn to live with it but I won't learn to like it as well as the old way (yellow button). Some kind of shortcut with one or two button pushes, that would be fine.
> 
> When I first found out about the change yesterday morning I must admit I wasn't at all happy. For me it was like getting into my car and finding someone had put the turn signal lever on the other side of the steering column overnight without asking first.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for a very interesting topic.


Glad you were open-minded enough to give it a try! I realize it is an emotional issue for some.

As far as 2-clicks goes, this request is inching it's way up to the top our our Wish List. It's at #10 today, up from #12 yesterday. If you like it and haven't already voted for it, please do so here. 
*
Optional "2-click" access to the following features: "Menu-1"=CC TOGGLE, "Menu-2"=TODO LIST, "Menu-3"=CYCLE FAVORITES, "Menu-4"=PRIORITIZER, "Menu-5"=HISTORY, "Menu-6"=MANUAL RECORD, "Menu-7"=TITLE SEARCH, "Menu-8"=KEYWORD SEARCH, "Menu-9"=SAVED SEARCHES and "Menu-0"=SETUP.*

/steve


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Steve said:


> As far as 2-clicks goes, this request is inching it's way up to the top our our Wish List. It's at #10 today, up from #12 yesterday. If you like it and haven't already voted for it, please do so here.
> *
> Optional "2-click" access to the following features: "Menu-1"=CC TOGGLE, "Menu-2"=TODO LIST, "Menu-3"=CYCLE FAVORITES, "Menu-4"=PRIORITIZER, "Menu-5"=HISTORY, "Menu-6"=MANUAL RECORD, "Menu-7"=TITLE SEARCH, "Menu-8"=KEYWORD SEARCH, "Menu-9"=SAVED SEARCHES and "Menu-0"=SETUP.*
> 
> /steve


I realized I hadn't voted in a while, so I finally caught up on the wish list survey yesterday. :nono2:


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Steve said:


> As far as 2-clicks goes, this request is inching it's way up to the top our our Wish List. It's at #10 today, up from #12 yesterday.
> 
> *
> Optional "2-click" access to the following features: "Menu-1"=CC TOGGLE, "Menu-2"=TODO LIST, "Menu-3"=CYCLE FAVORITES, "Menu-4"=PRIORITIZER, "Menu-5"=HISTORY, "Menu-6"=MANUAL RECORD, "Menu-7"=TITLE SEARCH, "Menu-8"=KEYWORD SEARCH, "Menu-9"=SAVED SEARCHES and "Menu-0"=SETUP.*
> ...


Steve,

1. I there somewhere we see the rank order you're referring to?

2. How was the numbering for the numeric shortcuts arrived at? Shouldn't we leverage the vast community memory from the Tivo interface?

3. As a frequent user of CC, I'm sympathetic to the need for easy access, but it seems peculiar to give it primary rank. Menu-8 or -9 seem better candidates because this UI has nothing corresponding to Tivo "Suggestions" or "Showcases." Or how about Menu-0, which didn't do anything on the Tivo?

4. Since the numbers displayed are cardinal (not ordinal), shouldn't "Menu-0" be the first thing on the menu? Or were you ranking them according to the geographic relationship of the keys on the face of the remote control?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TigerDriver said:


> Steve,
> 
> 1. I there somewhere we see the rank order you're referring to?
> 
> ...


Joe, the 10 items on the list were selected based on the results of this poll.

The ordering of the items was one first suggested by Drew2K, and then refined 3-4 times based on feedback from a variety of threads. That being said, it's only a suggestion. If DirecTV implements this, they're going to order them the way they want to anyway, so the real intent of this request was to get the "concept" across, and hope DirecTV buys it.

If they do implement it, whatever the order is, I'm sure we'll have a chance at providing feedback on how well it works for us in the appropriate CE cycle, before this goes national.

Also, after the poll items were voted on, it was correctly pointed out that it doesn't make sense to offer options that are "context sensitive", like PLAYLIST reordering, since the idea behind these shortcuts is to go directly to a function, no matter where you are in the UI. IOW, it wouldn't make any sense to offer a "Sort list by date" shortcut, since it would mean nothing if you watching LIVE TV, e.g.

The top row in our suggestion are probably the 3 functions that will be most used, so the thought of putting them there was to make them easy to find without looking at the remote. With the exception of "TODO" list at #2, which seems easy to remember, the 4-5-6 row are all "Manage Recording" functions. 7-8-9 seemed logical as a "SEARCH" row, and "0" for Setup should be easy to remember as well.

/steve


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## Italfra1 (Dec 22, 2005)

Steve said:


> Joe, the 10 items on the list were selected based on the results of this poll.
> 
> The ordering of the items was one first suggested by Drew2K, and then refined 3-4 times based on feedback from a variety of threads. That being said, it's only a suggestion. If DirecTV implements this, they're going to order them the way they want to anyway, so the real intent of this request was to get the "concept" across, and hope DirecTV buys it.
> 
> ...


Off topic a bit. Sorry. With the new software download I notice that every time I change a channel at the bottom of the banner it shows Favorite List. Either set to All Channels, Channels I Get or one of the Custom Settings. It briefly shows up when you go from channel to channel and then dissapears. Is there a way to make that not show up. I've been into edit settings but I see nothing that says Don't show Fav. List.

Any thoughts. I also don't like the fact that I can't hit my List button and then my Yellow button to see what is in my que to record. It was so easy before. Now it's a pain in the @$$.

Thx.


----------



## tumbleweed (Nov 28, 2007)

Steve said:


> . . . If you like it and haven't already voted for it, please do so here.  . . .


Registered and voted, thanks, it's a good wish list.


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## cadet502 (Jun 17, 2005)

This may have been suggested before, there has been so much said about this, I can't keep it all straight.

When you press MENU, the Menu shows on screen awaiting your next press. At that point, the yellow button is still active to bring up the "TV Options" mini-menu. Is that really necessary?

Would it be possible at that point to have the yellow button be TO-DO?
I could get used to Menu-yellow fairly easily, they are very close to each other.
There is even plenty of room at the bottom of the Menu to put the hint.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

cadet502 said:


> When you press MENU, the Menu shows on screen awaiting your next press. At that point, the yellow button is still active to bring up the "TV Options" mini-menu. Is that really necessary?
> 
> Would it be possible at that point to have the yellow button be TO-DO?


If you hit MENU and then YELLOW, you'll just cancel the MENU keypress and bring up the YELLOW menu instead.

If you want to get to TODO by hitting MENU, you're currently just a second or two away from getting there. Just arrow down to MANAGE RECORDINGS and hit select-select.

Or, if our new Wish List proposal is implemented as written, just click "Menu-2" (for TODO).

/steve


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Italfra1 said:


> Off topic a bit. Sorry. With the new software download I notice that every time I change a channel at the bottom of the banner it shows Favorite List. Either set to All Channels, Channels I Get or one of the Custom Settings. It briefly shows up when you go from channel to channel and then dissapears. Is there a way to make that not show up. I've been into edit settings but I see nothing that says Don't show Fav. List.


What you're seeing is part of the Info Banner now, and there is no option to remove. About the only change you can make is to change how long the Info Banner remains on screen.

I happen to like the darker-blue row at the bottom of the Info Banner, as it makes it very easy for any user to pick up the remote, hit INFO and realie they have a couple options to them (YELLOW and BLUE) that they may not have been aware of.


----------



## Italfra1 (Dec 22, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> What you're seeing is part of the Info Banner now, and there is no option to remove. About the only change you can make is to change how long the Info Banner remains on screen.
> 
> I happen to like the darker-blue row at the bottom of the Info Banner, as it makes it very easy for any user to pick up the remote, hit INFO and realie they have a couple options to them (YELLOW and BLUE) that they may not have been aware of.


That's all I was looking for. Someone to tell me that this is now part of the new banner and I'm stuck with it. I don't like it but I'll get over it. At least now I can stop trying to make it dissapear. Thx.


----------



## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Italfra1 said:


> That's all I was looking for. Someone to tell me that this is now part of the new banner and I'm stuck with it. I don't like it but I'll get over it. At least now I can stop trying to make it dissapear. Thx.


I don't like it either, the image is starting to look like a webpage with pop-ups on it.


----------



## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Steve said:


> Joe, the 10 items on the list were selected based on the results of this poll.
> 
> The ordering of the items was one first suggested by Drew2K, and then refined 3-4 times based on feedback from a variety of threads. That being said, it's only a suggestion. If DirecTV implements this, they're going to order them the way they want to anyway, so the real intent of this request was to get the "concept" across, and hope DirecTV buys it.
> 
> If they do implement it, whatever the order is, I'm sure we'll have a chance at providing feedback on how well it works for us in the appropriate CE cycle, before this goes national.


I would agree with Joe that the number shortcuts should first mirror the corresponding Tivo function mapping where applicable and then the unused numbers be used for whatever's left over to be mapped to the number shortcuts.


----------



## Italfra1 (Dec 22, 2005)

keenan said:


> I don't like it either, the image is starting to look like a webpage with pop-ups on it.


I see your local. Do you have network setup. Are you connected to the internet? I downloaded Tversity last week but can't get my music or photo folders to show on the screen menu. I'm waiting for a family friend to make it over this way to help me out. That stuff is way out of my league but I want to share music and photos with my DVR. Are you a networking and software wiz?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

We seem to have "quick access buttons" to a lot of things now except for the TODO/manage my recording (MMR) list.

Guide > yellow button for the guide options menu.

List > yellow button for my play list options menu.

Info > press and hold for the info screen.

While watching live TV, yellow button for TV options menu, blue button for the menu guide.

So does it seem like the MMR list was forgotten about then? I'm not saying it was, but why no quick access to it like before? Sure you can get to it from the menu screen, but why not a quick button for the MMR list too? How about using the green button while watching live TV to get to the MMR list?

Of course we could get greedy and ask for quick access buttons for DOD, search and media share screens too, but I guess thats what the menu button is for.  

Note: this is just another suggestion in addition to the LIST>LIST option and putting the MMRL option on the my play list menu.  

I don't know, what do you guys think?

BTW, I really don't mind where the MMRL is now. Just like with any new electronic device, I guess it just took some getting used to. I'm ok with it now, but would still like to see a quick shortcut to it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

FWIW, as a point of comparison, I thought folks might be interested in seeing these screen shots of the FiosTV "main" menu and the "recorded TV" sub menu, which contains the equivalent of the HR2x PLAYLIST, TODO LIST, PRIORITIZER and ? menus. (I'm not sure what's behind "Add REcording."

This is their original UI. They are currently rolling out a new UI nationally, but I haven't come across any screen shots yet to see if they've re-organized things.

There is no remote shortcut for "Scheduled", AFAIK, so bringing it up is a 7-click operation, including bringing up the main menu. /steve


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Steve said:


> FWIW, as a point of comparison, I thought folks might be interested in seeing these screen shots of the FiosTV "main" menu and the "recorded TV" sub menu, which contains the equivalent of the HR2x PLAYLIST, TODO LIST, PRIORITIZER and ? menus. (I'm not sure what's behind "Add REcording."
> 
> This is their original UI. They are currently rolling out a new UI nationally, but I haven't come across any screen shots yet to see if they've re-organized things.
> 
> There is no remote shortcut for "Scheduled", AFAIK, so bringing it up is a 7-click operation, including bringing up the main menu. /steve


but at least when you goto your list you are a couple clicks (back> down) from mananging them


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

houskamp said:


> but at least when you goto your list you are a couple clicks (back> down) from mananging them


Ya. I'm not saying this is better or worse. Just showing the way another company took a different approach. I frankly don't like the fact that it takes 3-4 clicks to get to the "DVR Recordings" list, but I suppose you can get used to anything.  That being said, they must have a shortcut for that on the remote. I can't imagine they wouldn't. /steve

EDIT: They do have a shortcut to the "DVR" menu in the "cruise control" cluster of the remote. See attached. I love that their PLAY key is PLAY/PAUSE, like on the HR10. I wish the HR20 remote was like that. Then *[||]* could be used for SLO-MO.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Steve said:


> I love that their PLAY key is PLAY/PAUSE, like on the HR10. I wish the HR20 remote was like that. Then *[||]* could be used for SLO-MO.


I totally agree, that would be way cool. I wonder if thats on the wish list?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> I totally agree, that would be way cool. I wonder if thats on the wish list?


Asked and answered! :lol:


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Italfra1 said:


> That's all I was looking for. Someone to tell me that this is now part of the new banner and I'm stuck with it. I don't like it but I'll get over it. At least now I can stop trying to make it dissapear. Thx.


I guess that means there is no setting to display it for 0 seconds??? Bummer.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Italfra1 said:


> I see your local. Do you have network setup. Are you connected to the internet? I downloaded Tversity last week but can't get my music or photo folders to show on the screen menu. I'm waiting for a family friend to make it over this way to help me out. That stuff is way out of my league but I want to share music and photos with my DVR. Are you a networking and software wiz?


I haven't really played with that feature of the HR20, I use the PS3 for all that stuff. I'll look around at this afternoon and let you know what I find though. My HR20 is connected to my network.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

I keep thinking about Steve idea of having a set of power user hotlinks like TiVo.

For instance TiVo - 2 was To Do.

We have been told that the objection to offering Menu - X shortcuts such as Menu-2 is that it interferes with the use of the PIG.

How about if we suggest using the Yellow - X commands like Yellow - 2 for To Do. It could be basedon on the old TiVo-X commands like this:

```
Hotlink  HR20 Function		Old TiVo Name
-------- -------------		--------------------
Yellow 0 Setup	 		TiVo guy movie
Yellow 1 Prioritizer	 	Season Pass Manager
Yellow 2 To Do list		To Do List
Yellow 3 Search: Recent 	Wishlists
Yellow 4 Search: Title 		Browse By Name
Yellow 5 Search: Channel	Browse By Channel
Yellow 6 Search: Date & Time 	Browse By Time
Yellow 7 Manual Record 		Record Time/Channel
Yellow 8 Cycle Favorite Chan	Suggestions
Yellow 9 Parental Controls	Showcases
```
That way we get To Do with 2 keystrokes. Setup is 2 keystrokes instead of 5. The average user does not even know it is there and is not affected. Plus you get shortcuts to 10 key features.

- Craig

What do you think?

- Craig


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> I keep thinking about Steve idea of having a set of power user hotlinks like TiVo.
> 
> For instance TiVo - 2 was To Do.
> 
> ...


Craig, It would still be THREE keys to get to the To Do List: LIST > YELLOW > 2.

I don't recall seeing anywhere that numeric power-keys *can't* be used when MENU is present, but obviously, the current implementation responds to a numeric key press when the MENU is on-screen, and the PIG is affected. But I don't see why DIRECTV can't change that ... *Ignore any numeric key presses when the menu is on-screen.* Then MENU + [number] is a true *two-step* path to the named features, *regardless of where the user is in the interface*.


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## TigerDriver (Jul 27, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Craig, It would still be THREE keys to get to the To Do List: LIST > YELLOW > 2.
> 
> I don't recall seeing anywhere that numeric power-keys *can't* be used when MENU is present, but obviously, the current implementation responds to a numeric key press when the MENU is on-screen, and the PIG is affected. But I don't see why DIRECTV can't change that ... *Ignore any numeric key presses when the menu is on-screen.*


Right. What we're talking about is which object has numeric key-press _focus_. And the PIL/PIG themselves demonstrate that this focus can be changed:

In PIL, the video "object" has numeric key-press focus 
In PIG, the guide object has numeric key-press focus

So, since numeric key-press focus can obviously be changed, why could it not be given it to the Menu object, then returned to the previous holder when the menu is "torn down" (i.e., deleted).

I have no clue about the underlying architecture of the application code, but God help us if it can't be easily done.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> We have been told that the objection to offering Menu - X shortcuts such as Menu-2 is that it interferes with the use of the PIG.


Here's the full request along with the INFO text, which does offer an alternative to using MENU as the "trigger" key:

*Optional "2-click" access to the following features: "Menu-1"=CC TOGGLE, "Menu-2"=TODO LIST, "Menu-3"=CYCLE FAVORITES, "Menu-4"=PRIORITIZER, "Menu-5"=HISTORY, "Menu-6"=MANUAL RECORD, "Menu-7"=TITLE SEARCH, "Menu-8"=KEYWORD SEARCH, "Menu-9"=SAVED SEARCHES and "Menu-0"=SETUP.*

HELP BALLOON reads: _A "cheat sheet" listing these key assignments should be made available under "HELP". *If, for technical reasons, "Menu-#" can't work, another key can be used as the trigger, like "ENTER-0...ENTER-9", e.g.*_

/steve


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

what's all the todo about the todo? while i hate that they took it off the yellow button,i just got the upgrade and i find i press menu/manage/todo (i think, at work now and thats what i remember)

so i think that is 3 buttons?


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Yep, 3 buttons and six presses.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

well from my reading on here i thought the sky was falling and i'm usually very against change. This is 'nothing'


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Well, it's not "nothing".

And it isn't "the world is ending".

Having gotten the NR on Friday and using the next layout this weekend, I would label it as "inconvenient".

Why D* had to fix what wasn't broken is beyond me.

I will just have to get used to it.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

At this point in time, after seeing what's happened to the DirecTiVo I loved so much, I don't care about cosmetics and convenience. I just want a machine that's stable and reliable. Reading about all the spontaneous reboots with the next HR20 CE makes me real, real nervous. I don't want a minor tweek done in the name of convenience to ruin the stability of the machine. I've already lost the TiVo to spontaneous reboots, so I can't afford to lose the HR20 as well.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not about keystrokes ? huh?
> That is what this entire argument has been about... how long it now takes.
> 
> The fact is, the system is VERY consistant now... and since the HR20/21 platform is the first in these changes...
> ...


"There are also a zillion manuals that have other functions for the red button, and don't show the new menu structure... and the fact that DoD and other things are not even in there."

Hey, that's pretty good. Making your point by listing other things that are not right too. Don't forget... and the lips don't match the mouths either.


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