# All my recordings disappeared! What Happened?



## jcd4878 (Feb 26, 2004)

This really sucks! All my protected recordings disappeared.
I went to watch That 70's Show recorded tonight and it froze on a blank screen. So I hit stop, no response. I typed in a channel number and it came alive again.
Then I hit the DVR button again and tried to playback the show a second time. Again blank screen freeze, so I hit stop, same result. Tried to switch to a channel and the receiver would not switch. I then hit the DVR button again and I get the DVR screen excecpt it was only showing my timers and no recordings. I do a hold the power button reboot and it says "Installing new software". I let it finish, again my recordings still gone.
I do a power plug pull reboot and again no recordings.
Did 2.12 delete all my protected recordings! I am going to be royally pissed if it did!!!! &^$*$^%$ I had a few 24 episodes in HD that I did not transfer to DVD yet. They were protected recordings, they should not have been deleted.
HELP! Are my recordings gone forever? This is the last straw!
Has this happened to anyone else?


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## HailScroob (Aug 3, 2004)

OK, this auto-deletion of all recordings is becoming an epidemic. It hasn't happened to me (yet), but all these reports are making me pretty dang nervous every time I hit the DVR button. I can only hope that everyone who has had this happen to them has called Dish and raised a huge fuss. 

They had better not wait 2 months to release a fix for this little disaster. If anything with the 921 has ever called for an immediate, right now, super critical Fix-It software update - this is it. I mean, for sure ZSRs suck, but wiping out everything you have saved... that's beyond inexcusable.


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## jcd4878 (Feb 26, 2004)

I agree, they need to fix this immediately!

I have been a 921 beta tester since Jan 04, it is now more than a year later and STILL this box is not very stable. I cannot trust this box to do anything that was advertised that it could do. I still use a TiVo standalone on my old ass 4900 receiver to 'backup' record all my important shows. I have used TiVo for over 6 years and NEVER EVER had lost recordings due to software bugs. I have never had TiVo miss a timer either. (oh wait, TiVo is better I don't even need to SET the timers, it figures that all out on its own with the name based stuff) I would trust TiVo to run my pacemaker, it IS that reliable!

This is totally inexcuseable! I am seriously considering asking telling Dish to shove it and purchase back my 921 at full price. I was never delivered what I bought. They even took away the firewire ports that was clearly listed on my sales literture as a feature they never delivered. I have had a bunch of issues with this thing for a year now, and have been willing to wait hoping maybe sometime they will get it right. BUT NEVER, have I had such a blantently bad bug hit me as now, loosing over 12 hours of protected HD recordings in a flash of a second. I am still in shock it happened. Deleting episodes of my all time favorite show that I told it not to delete has really really left me fuming!

After this mess it wouldn't record anything either. I had to clear all my settings and setup all my OTA channels and Timers all over again before it finally started working again. I had to power plug reboot it 5 times before it seemed to come alive again. I don't even trust the damn thing anymore. It's a damn shame Dish treats their long time customers this way. DirecTV is going to get my future buisness when they start shipping their MPEG4 HD receivers. I AM DONE WITH DISH!

-Jerry


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Jerry- I agree with all your comments except one, the last one where you said you are going to wait until D* begins shipping their mpeg4 DVR. That tells me you are not serious and are willing to risk further disappointment in the 921. Plus, the mpeg4 DVR from D* is not even in testing yet, still in the specification development stage so you'll have quite awhile to wait and then you are looking at an unknown system with no former track record. If you are serious, you'll just make the move now and realize the TIVO reliability now. Worry about MPEG4 in a couple of years when you need to. Besides, I can assure you that with the TIVO you WILL have the option to pull all those precious recordings to archived hard drives. No chance of losing anything unless your TIVO fries, and then there is a 3rd party non-supported procedure to recover those now to DVHS archive. Today, there is abosolutely no reason to fret over losing precious recordings. The 921 is not reliable, we all know that. I keep it here because I paid so much for it but I do not rely on it since having the TIVO. Some people don't have any problems with the 921 but you do so why put yourself through all the misery. It's only TV so... Make the move and be happy!

(Gee, I remember making that sort of speech to an employee once who was complaining and telling me how great the competitior was, I told him to quit already and go to work for my competitor!  )


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

Lost an ongoing recording that would not stop last week.

Mark, any feedback from the 921 team concerning this?


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> Worry about MPEG4 in a couple of years when you need to.


Don, this where I (and perhaps others) are confused. Haven't Dish and DirecTV said that any new HD channels (later this year?) will happen after new birds are launched and they will be in MPEG4 and not the current compression scheme? That's what makes me hesitate about moving to DirecTV and buying HD Tivo now and then purchasing new equipment later this year if I want new HD channels. Yet you say we won't have to worry about MPEG4 for years. So what's the real story? Will new HD appear on Dish or DirecTV this year and will it require MPEG4?

Jerry


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Man, I must be on borrowed time. I've had my 921 since 1/2004 (still has the firewire ports on the back), and aside from a few ZSRs over the last few months it has been stable.

If you missed certain shows, go to the web and download a program called "eTomi Pro". For less than $20 you get a program that lets you search like Kazaa for shows you missed. You need a broadband connection (the average file is 100-500 MB), but I've recovered shows I've missed this way..... I delete them as soon as I am done watching them and don't share them. I don't consider it akin to music file stealing, becuase I can't legally purchase the shows anywhere yet.


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> Man, I must be on borrowed time. I've had my 921 since 1/2004 (still has the firewire ports on the back), and aside from a few ZSRs over the last few months it has been stable.
> 
> If you missed certain shows, go to the web and download a program called "eTomi Pro". For less than $20 you get a program that lets you search like Kazaa for shows you missed. You need a broadband connection (the average file is 100-500 MB), but I've recovered shows I've missed this way..... I delete them as soon as I am done watching them and don't share them. I don't consider it akin to music file stealing, becuase I can't legally purchase the shows anywhere yet.


I used bittorrent to get last weeks episode of survivor that my 921 ate.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Jerry G said:


> Don, this where I (and perhaps others) are confused. Haven't Dish and DirecTV said...
> 
> Jerry


Yes! But, they also have said that the new MPEG4 programming will not happen until they have replacement hardware available to "receive" it. When pressed (at CES) about the HDTIVO D* told me this: They will have their own version of the DVR to offer with MPEG4 but TIVO is also welcome to produce one. Their point was that D* is not going to grant TIVO an exclusive to the DVR D* hardware like that have in the past. But all this also confuses the issue of when and what. From what I gather it will all come down like this with D*: They have the ability to do more HDTV programming now and will offer as they can. That programming will be in MPEG2. ONLY after the MPEG4 receivers are available will they begin to offer new and different programming in MPEG4 ONLY and require you obtain the proper receiver to get that NEW programming. I asked: You keep saying "receiver" what about DVR?- They said that will come too but they will not guarantee that TIVO will be one of those. Also, they said that D* will make a favorable upgrade deal for those with MPEG2 TIVO to move to their preferred DVR with programming commitment. NOW, will all this come down the way they said. Probably similar but based on history, we really won't know until all this actually begins to unfold. People and companies change their minds.

Similar conversation with E* reps. They had less to say about it but it did come down to a very similar scenario and that was that the MPEG4 stuff is being designed in concept now because while they have speculated going to MP4, they have never claimed this was in the plans for certain. If it does come down to MP4 for new HDTV programming, D* will probably make a deal to upgrade for commitment and some additional cash for the new features. In other words they said a deal of even swap for an MP4 version of the 942 is highly unlikely.

I can tell you where all this leaves me. I will continue to enjoy what I have. It is highly unlikely that D* nor E* will come up with programming that is not already offered on Voom. So my plan will be to continue to be flexible with the providers, play the cards as they are delt and not try to count the cards too far into the future. Personally, I can't see any receiver / DVR device that has not yet been designed be ready for market and work properly by the end of 2005. Not unless God is now on the manufacturer's side and God does the programming development. Their(both D* and E*) track record for producing a DVR in under 18 Months has only been done by TIVO so consider that when looking to the future of MP4. that is- 18 months from now, TIVO is your best chance for a bug free MP4 DVR. (excluding VOOM's DVR because that MP4 system is near ready to roll out if the company stays afloat) It may be out by July but will it be as reliable as the TIVO? From what I saw at CES, they had some work ahead of them!  I saw the hardware behind the cabinet door!

Still confused?


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## chuckbernard (Aug 3, 2004)

The only new HD content that either company is going to provide is locals so that they can compete with the cable companies. Lets face it there just isn't that much HD content out there yet. The main networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc.) are the only ones producing daily content. By adding new cities they add tens of thousands of customers. By adding a couple of HD stations they make a percent or two of their existing customers happier.

BTW, I've ordered my Tivo (HR10-250). Hope to have all of this behind me in a week or so. I just can't decide whether I'm going to smash the 921 with a hammer or drop it from the roof. Either way, I'll post it on the web and you can watch.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Chuckbernard-

Actually, that's not true. The E* and D* are opportuned to do at least 150% more HD channels beyond what they presently carry if they wanted to without even going into all the redundancy of 250 locals offering HDTV. Study the offerings of VOOM less their own exclusives and you'll see plenty of HDTV channels that are not currently being offered. Then look at the fact that VOOM still isn't doing about 8 more that are there 24/7 so even they have room to grow. Remember, the locals are all offering the same programs at the same time slot from the networks so that is just 5-7 basic channels from the majors with 50 markets. all that redundancy just to protect the DMA's in HDTV. Offering local into local is the biggest waste of bandwidth both E* and D* have come up with but that is only topped by the new goal to offer HDTV LIL. Bandwidth is not precious at all. It is an asset to be wasted with offering the same programming on hundreds of tp's. Why? because the bulk of their subscribers want to be wasteful and are willing to waste their money on paying them for reducing PQ in an overly compressed HDTV channel that they could get at much higher quality for free. In the rural areas where HDTV locals is difficult all that is needed is a national network feed open to them and they can have the programming too from conus national channel. But the problem is the local stations insist on these rural viewers watching their locally produced SDTV commercials on the HD channel so that's why we have to have all this redundancy. Everything about it is wastful.


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## jcd4878 (Feb 26, 2004)

Wow, I ***** about loosing my protected recordings, and this turns into a argument over MPEG4! Well, reason why I said I wanted to wait is simply because I don't want to buy a whole new round of hardware now, just to find out in a few months that I have to buy a whole new round of hardware again! Your right, I should ditch Dish Network now and just get it over with.

I have looked at DirecTV's current TiVo offerings and one BIG thing worries me, all of their TiVo recievers are still running 3.xx software! This is ridiculous! They are not supporting or plan to support Home Media and Tivo-to-go features. I find this disturbing. There are lots of complaints from DirecTV subs about this issue. I would be trading one crappy company for another. Also I read ALOT of HD TiVo boxes have HDMI failures, I use a 720p digital projector and thus the HDMI ouput has to be rock solid stable. Of all my problems with the 921, getting a solid digital DVI signal from it is NOT a problem. So this worries me a bit, switching to DirecTV, swapping dishes and switches, and then find out I can't reliably watch TV cause of a crappy digital output port design.

So I am in a BIG dilema right now! I am displeased with Dish, but fear the competition has other problems I don't want to deal with either. I have alot invested in Dish hardware at this point. As much as I want to say shove it to Dish now, I am afraid I am gonna have to wait it out a bit longer. AND NOW, Dish is dangling this new carrot in front of me, the 942? I read the initial reviews and it seems this thing is actually what I have been expecting from my 921 for over a year now. Not only that, it has the TiVo like name based and season pass features! DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!! I really would like to tell Dish to shove it, but I don't want to repurchase all this hardware again when MPEG4 recording makes a debut. Its alot cheaper for me to stay with Dish for now and then switch when the MPEG4 hardware is materialized.

I hope you understand where I am comming from on this?

-Jerry


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

JCD: You're right. Forget about the 942 - keep the 921 until things shake out. At least that's what I'm doing. My $1K investment in that box is about the ONLY thing keeping my $100/month going to the tunaboy.

DonL: That's an EXCELLENT post!


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

jcd4878 said:


> This really sucks! All my protected recordings disappeared.
> I went to watch That 70's Show recorded tonight and it froze on a blank screen. So I hit stop, no response. I typed in a channel number and it came alive again.
> Then I hit the DVR button again and tried to playback the show a second time. Again blank screen freeze, so I hit stop, same result. HELP! Are my recordings gone forever? This is the last straw!
> Has this happened to anyone else?


I suspect that the That 70's show as a ZSR (0 minutes recored). If that be the case, any time you actually try to play a ZSR, there goes the DVR recorded events. If you didn't have a ZSR then there is something new and not so improved to cause this. The black screen is 100% symptom when you try and watch a ZSR.

Also, you should do a factory reset and rebuild. Your timers should remain. You will need to do a check switch after the factory reset. once you have finished the check switch, rescan for your digital OTA's. You have to redo all your favorites too. That should keep the 921 working for about a month.

BTW is your software HEED? I have the problem that you describe more with my HEED 921 than my HECD 921.


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## jcd4878 (Feb 26, 2004)

boylehome said:


> I suspect that the That 70's show as a ZSR (0 minutes recored). If that be the case, any time you actually try to play a ZSR, there goes the DVR recorded events. If you didn't have a ZSR then there is something new and not so improved to cause this. The black screen is 100% symptom when you try and watch a ZSR.
> 
> Also, you should do a factory reset and rebuild. Your timers should remain. You will need to do a check switch after the factory reset. once you have finished the check switch, rescan for your digital OTA's. You have to redo all your favorites too. That should keep the 921 working for about a month.
> 
> BTW is your software HEED? I have the problem that you describe more with my HEED 921 than my HECD 921.


I have no idea whether it was a ZSR or not, I played it without reading the screen, it's quite possible it was.

Ever since this 2.12 software, I get ZSR all the time now! It's really pissing me off, since before 2.12 I never ever saw or knew what a ZSR was. Why doesn't Dish just roll back the software to 1.80? I had no problems with 1.80, it was rock solid stable! Funny this about these ZSR's is that they sometimes pop up with recording data from my lost recordings! For example, I had a ZSR that I went into the detail display for, in the listing it showed:
American Idol (383400 mins)
24 (60 mins) <- Lost Recording
10 o-clock News (-383460 mins)
You add all this up and you get zero. It looks like a database corruption to me, and it seems everytime a recording tries to use a spot on the hard disk that was lost, I get a ZSR with old recording data adding up to zero.

How do I do a factory reset and hard disk purge? That may solve my current ZSR problem. I am pretty convinced this is a 2.12 issue though!!! I never saw these things till 2.12.

I have a JVC branded HECD unit, still with accessable firewire ports. I was one of the early adopters, and have pretty much been able to use the unit mostly glitch free for over a year. It's only been with the recent software updates that has broken my unit to being unusable.

-Jerry


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

jcd4878 said:


> It looks like a database corruption to me, and it seems everytime a recording tries to use a spot on the hard disk that was lost, I get a ZSR with old recording data adding up to zero.


Mark has pretty well confirmed your idea on the database problem:

"http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=39865"
"http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=374356&postcount=9"

The "fix" (as I understand it) is to accumulate as many new recordings (which will be ZSRs) in your recorded events as you had recordings prior to the first ZSR instance. I guess this process overwrites the bad / corrupted table entries:

"http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=374742&postcount=16".

I don't know about you, but it makes my head ache&#8230;


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

jcd4878 said:


> I have no idea whether it was a ZSR or not, I played it without reading the screen, it's quite possible it was.
> 
> American Idol (383400 mins)
> 24 (60 mins) <- Lost Recording
> ...


Most likely it was a ZSR. AVJohnnie gives a suggestion but I wouldn't count on it as very good. Delete all your OTA channels. Go to MENU 6 - 6 and select Yes. This will force the Factory Defaults. Once your 921 restarts go to MENU 6 -2 and in the POINT DISH screen select Switch. In the Switch Matrix screen select Check. Once that is completed go to 6 - 8 and scan back in you local OTA's if applicable. The next important thing is to then unplug your receiver for at least 30 seconds to get another re-boot. Once it all comes back up you need to check your times to ensure they remained. If you had personalized favorites, you will need to remake them. Once you've completed this you should report back if you still experience problems.

I had a pretty bad problem with the ZSR's but quickly learned to check every DVR event and not play any ZSR but rather delete them. The 921 team with Dish Network provided me with some of the information that I am providing here. It eliminated my ZSR's for a month. You can follow the


AVJohnnie said:


> The "fix" (as I understand it) is to accumulate as many new recordings (which will be ZSRs) in your recorded events as you had recordings prior to the first ZSR instance. I guess this process overwrites the bad / corrupted table entries:


 but it is hard to tell how many ZSR's you will end up with, which means not getting the recorded event that you wanted, and maybe accidentally trying to watch a DVR that you didn't realize is a ZSR thus losing all your recorded events.

Good Luck,

John


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