# Breaking News: House passes the DTV Delay Act. Waiting for President Signature



## Tom Robertson

The House of Representatives has passes Senate Bill S. 352, the DTV Delay Act. The Bill now goes to President Obama for signature or veto. (It is expected he will sign given his signals.)

This bill will allow stations to delay their transition to digital-only until June 12, though does not require a delay until that time.

FCC discussions indicate 143 stations have already transitioned, and approximately 60% plan to switch on February 17 if permitted.

Thank you all for keeping these discussions limited to the actions of government without political commentary. While discussions of this nature are difficult to separate from "politics" you've done a great job this last couple days. Thanks!

Printer ready form of the text:


> S 352 ES
> 
> 111th CONGRESS
> 
> 1st Session
> 
> S. 352
> 
> AN ACT
> 
> To postpone the DTV transition date.
> 
> Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
> 
> SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
> 
> This Act may be cited as the `DTV Delay Act'.
> 
> SEC. 2. POSTPONEMENT OF DTV TRANSITION DATE.
> 
> (a) In General- Section 3002(b) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 (47 U.S.C. 309 note) is amended--
> 
> (1) by striking `February 18, 2009;' in paragraph (1) and inserting `June 13, 2009;'; and
> 
> (2) by striking `February 18, 2009,' in paragraph (2) and inserting `that date'.
> 
> (b) Conforming Amendments-
> 
> (1) Section 3008(a)(1) of that Act (47 U.S.C. 309 note) is amended by striking `February 17, 2009.' and inserting `June 12, 2009.'.
> 
> (2) Section 309(j)(14)(A) of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 309(j)(14)(A)) is amended by striking `February 17, 2009.' and inserting `June 12, 2009.'.
> 
> (3) Section 337(e)(1) of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 337(e)(1)) is amended by striking `February 17, 2009.' and inserting `June 12, 2009.'.
> 
> (c) License Terms-
> 
> (1) EXTENSION- The Federal Communications Commission shall extend the terms of the licenses for the recovered spectrum, including the license period and construction requirements associated with those licenses, for a 116-day period.
> 
> (2) DEFINITION- In this subsection, the term `recovered spectrum' means--
> 
> (A) the recovered analog spectrum, as such term is defined in section 309(j)(15)(C)(vi) of the Communications Act of 1934; and
> 
> (B) the spectrum excluded from the definition of recovered analog spectrum by subclauses (I) and (II) of such section.
> 
> SEC. 3. MODIFICATION OF DIGITAL-TO-ANALOG CONVERTER BOX PROGRAM.
> 
> (a) Extension of Coupon Program- Section 3005(c)(1)(A) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 (47 U.S.C. 309 note) is amended by striking `March 31, 2009,' and inserting `July 31, 2009,'.
> 
> (b) Treatment of Expired Coupons- Section 3005(c)(1) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 (47 U.S.C. 309 note) is amended by adding at the end the following:
> 
> `(D) EXPIRED COUPONS- The Assistant Secretary may issue to a household, upon request by the household, one replacement coupon for each coupon that was issued to such household and that expired without being redeemed.'.
> 
> (c) Conforming Amendment- Section 3005(c)(1)(A) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 (47 U.S.C. 309 note) is amended by striking `receives, via the United States Postal Service,' and inserting `redeems'.
> 
> (d) Condition of Modifications- The amendments made by this section shall not take effect until the enactment of additional budget authority after the date of enactment of this Act to carry out the analog-to-digital converter box program under section 3005 of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005.
> 
> SEC. 4. IMPLEMENTATION.
> 
> (a) Permissive Early Termination Under Existing Requirements- Nothing in this Act is intended to prevent a licensee of a television broadcast station from terminating the broadcasting of such station's analog television signal (and continuing to broadcast exclusively in the digital television service) prior to the date established by law under section 3002(b) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 for termination of all licenses for full-power television stations in the analog television service (as amended by section 2 of this Act) so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including the flexible procedures established in the Matter of Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television (FCC 07-228, MB Docket No. 07-91, released December 31, 2007).
> 
> (b) Public Safety Radio Services- Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall prevent a public safety service licensee from commencing operations consistent with the terms of its license on spectrum recovered as a result of the voluntary cessation of broadcasting in the analog or digital television service pursuant to subsection (a). Any such public safety use shall be subject to the relevant Federal Communications Commission rules and regulations in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including section 90.545 of the Commission's rules (47 C.F.R. 90.545).
> 
> (c) Expedited Rulemaking- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Federal Communications Commission and the National Telecommunications and Information Administration shall, not later than 30 days after the date of enactment of this Act, each adopt or revise its rules, regulations, or orders or take such other actions as may be necessary or appropriate to implement the provisions, and carry out the purposes, of this Act and the amendments made by this Act.
> 
> SEC. 5. EXTENSION OF COMMISSION AUCTION AUTHORITY.
> 
> Section 309(j)(11) of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 309(j)(11)) is amended by striking `2011.' and inserting `2012.'.
> 
> Passed the Senate January 29, 2009.
> 
> Attest:
> 
> Secretary.
> 
> 111th CONGRESS
> 
> 1st Session
> 
> S. 352
> 
> AN ACT
> 
> To postpone the DTV transition date.
> 
> END


Cheers,
Tom


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## SParker

BARF! :down:


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## braven

Oh brother. Rediculous.


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## Stuart Sweet

I think we're all disappointed on some level.


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## DC_SnDvl

loosers (both red and blue)


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## mhayes70

Yeah, I don't like the delay either. But, oh well there is nothing we can do. :whatdidid

Thanks for the update Tom.


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## MattDing

Good. Now the transition will go off without any problems whatsoever.


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## SParker

Hopefully both sides are FIRM on the new date and don't try to change it again in late May...


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## Tom Robertson

My frustrations are on several levels. 

1) Too bad the NTIA and Commerce dept. didn't forecast better about coupon shortage.
2) Too bad coupons were not validated as to need in some fashion. (Though this might have been more costly than just giving them away as they did.)
3) Too bad there wasn't some means to allow free discussion as to alternatives to a 4 month delay, though I do understand the top of this year in particular has been very busy.
4) Too bad, sloppy numbers are the best available at this time. 

All that said, it is what it is. We'll see what happens in two weeks and then in the next 3 and a half months.

Cheers,
Tom


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## naijai

They might have approved the delay but i know at least one station here that say's they will be keeping to the original date and switching over we shall see :nono2:


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## LCDSpazz

CBS affiliate in Chicagoland is now stuck on Low Band VHF hell for another 4 months. Excellent!


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## Tom Robertson

naijai said:


> They might have approved the delay but i know at least one station here that say's they will be keeping to the original date and switching over we shall see :nono2:


The FCC estimates that 60% will switch on or before February 17. And 90% before June 12.


LCDSpazz said:


> CBS affiliate in Chicagoland is now stuck on Low Band VHF hell for another 4 months. Excellent!


Possibly. If the stations they are waiting for switch soon, they can switch as well.


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## d max82

I see that those with expired coupons may request replacements, but nothing about additional money for the program.

I guess those that request replacement coupons goto the back of the line, waiting for someone elses coupon to expire?


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## robmadden1

The stations in Dayton, Ohio are likely to transition on the original date.


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## RVD26

Doesn't effect me or my family either way....oh well.
I'm not gonna go bonkers b/c they decide to delay the transition.


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## Tom Robertson

d max82 said:


> I see that those with expired coupons may request replacements, but nothing about additional money for the program.
> 
> I guess those that request replacement coupons goto the back of the line, waiting for someone elses coupon to expire?


This bill could not include funding that would violate the "Pay as You Go" rules. So the funding will have to come from another spending authorization.


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## Doug Brott

SParker said:


> Hopefully both sides are FIRM on the new date and don't try to change it again in late May...


if 61% really do change on the 17th, there would only be 39% that could be delayed at that point .. seems even more silly than doing what was done today.


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## robmadden1

I wonder if many of the stations will wait to figure out thier plans on the trasition untill they see what the fcc rules are?


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## fluffybear

[email protected]#$#[email protected]


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## tunce

It's a pure shame to get more legs to the stimulus package [mod redaction].

(hope this is ok to say)


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## neljtorres

Watch it is going to be the same crap on June alot of people will still not be ready! And what are they going to do? Delay again! It's the same crap when you fill out the taxes the due date is on April and there are still people that don't send it out on April! Do they get a extension for this? Hell NO!!!!


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## reddice

Our government sux. House voted to delay the bill. This really ticks me off. It makes no sense. Last week it was rejected and now they decide to try to pass another bill that makes no sense to be allowed and now this one gets passed. We were nagged for two years about the 17th and now it is not going to happen.

Looks like I won't be able to get channels 2 or 13 until now June and E* has no reason to ever carry 13 in HD.


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## CopyCat

Same idiots that don't let us watch distant networks. They have no idea what they voted for except the party said to do it.


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## hdfan1

robmadden1 said:


> The stations in Dayton, Ohio are likely to transition on the original date.


3 of the stations in Dayton have already announced they will be switching at the scheduled date anyway. WHIO (CBS), WKEF (ABC) and WRGT (FOX) are all planning to switch on Feb. 17th anyway. In WHIO's case they will not wait because they have workers scheduled to do work on their transmitter that can't be delayed so while this will be delayed nationally a lot of local stations are going ahead with their original plans.


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## Tom Robertson

reddice said:


> Our government sux. House voted to delay the bill. This really ticks me off. It makes no sense. Last week it was rejected and now they decide to try to pass another bill that makes no sense to be allowed and now this one gets passed. We were nagged for two years about the 17th and now it is not going to happen.
> 
> Looks like I won't be able to get channels 2 or 13 until now June and E* has no reason to ever carry 13 in HD.


They rejected to suspend the rules that would have paid for that bill, but they had a sufficient majority to have passed the bill if it were spending neutral. So this is how the new bill came about.

Cheers,
Tom


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## fluffybear

neljtorres said:


> Watch it is going to be the same crap on June alot of people will still not be ready! And what are they going to do? Delay again! It's the same crap when you fill out the taxes the due date is on April and there are still people that don't send it out on April! Do they get a extension for this? Hell NO!!!!


I just hope when it comes time to debate the next delay that those opposing the delay will remind several of of the supporters of their statement that they would not support any additional delays after this one.


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## reddice

Tom Robertson said:


> They rejected to suspend the rules that would have paid for that bill, but they had a sufficient majority to have passed the bill if it were spending neutral. So this is how the new bill came about.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


That government talk crap makes no sense. This is why I never got into politics or government and hated to learn about it in school. That is all that US History is boring politics. I liked studying other countries history when I was in school.


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## rlgold88

What is the over and under for the next transition date?


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## Tom Robertson

reddice said:


> That government talk crap makes no sense. This is why I never got into politics or government and hated to learn about it in school. That is all that US History is boring politics. I liked studying other countries history when I was in school.


I definitely have learned more about civics in the past two weeks than I have in the past 30 years, since my last class in high school.  Granted, much of what I've learned has been very tiny details that are likely not even covered in most college level classes.

Now, please remember, we can't talk about boring politics. Only government actions without political commentary.

Thanks,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson

rlgold88 said:


> What is the over and under for the next transition date?


Nearly impossible to describe.

Right now, I'd love to see an over/under on how many transition by February 18. First cut guess by FCC is 61%.


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## robmadden1

I live in Cincinnati but get those Dayton stations. I wonder what the Cincinnati stations will do?


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## loudo

Looks like many of the stations are ready to shut analog down on the original date, anyway. I am sure many more will be off the air before June, just to save the monthly expenditure of running the analog transmitters, for a few last minute procrastinators.


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## reddice

I just hope all local stations in my area switch on the 17th anyway.


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## reddice

If many stations are going to switch on 17th anyway then passing this delay is pointless because for the lazy people who are still not ready they still won't get the analog stations. Stations are trying to save money and they really want to turn off their analog because they are wasting money keeping it on.


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## tonyd79

neljtorres said:


> Watch it is going to be the same crap on June alot of people will still not be ready! And what are they going to do? Delay again! It's the same crap when you fill out the taxes the due date is on April and there are still people that don't send it out on April! Do they get a extension for this? Hell NO!!!!


Actually, you have until August (?) 15th to do your taxes. If you owe them money, you have to pay interest with no other penalty. If they owe you, then you just get your refund as calculated.

You do need to file an (automatic) extension but April 15th is not a hard deadline. (And extensions for my state taxes in Maryland are implied...no need to file any paperwork at all.)


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## reddice

Curtis0620 said:


> Wouldn't it be something of all stations switched on Feb 17th.
> 
> :hurah::hurah::hurah:


I would hope so but I think about 70% will switch on that date no matter what.


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## rlgold88

I just wish the Gov. could make a decision and stick with it instead of voting to delay a decision.


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## Mike500

These so call deadbeats don't do anything 'til the stuff from the fan hits them in the face. 

They don't complain until the power, the phone or the water is cut off.

They will only take action when the TV is cut off.
These are the same people who "prepared" for Katrina by letting the hurricane hit them in the face.

The same people complained when the government paid for their evacuation and saved them from letting another hurricane hit them in the face.


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## Tom Robertson

reddice said:


> I would hope so but I think about 70% will switch on that date no matter what.


I'm not sure, but it might be tricky to get above 70% without lots of coordination between stations that would otherwise interfere with each other.

And we've heard some stations are in fact making those discussions, promising to transition, freeing dependent stations to change as well.


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## ukrobbie

Mike500 said:


> These so call deadbeats don't do anything 'til the stuff from the fan hits them in the face.
> 
> They don't complain until the power, the phone or the water is cut off.
> 
> They will only take action when the TV is cut off.
> These are the same people who "prepared" for Katrina by letting the hurricane hit them in the face.
> 
> The same people complained when the government paid for their evacuation and saved them from letting another hurricane hit them in the face.


This post is dead on imo, most don't have the courage to tell it like it is!!


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## Tom Robertson

That point was, much more politely, made in the House today. Namely, how many more will really be ready if we delay until June 12?

Cheers,
Tom


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## Stuart Sweet

Probably none, but even if there is another delay, it will be moot. Let's forecast 61% will turn off Feb. 17th as scheduled. Another 20% will turn off sometime before the hard cutoff. Of the remaining 19%, let's forecast 61% of them (12% of the total) will turn off as scheduled in June, leaving only 7% of stations even willing to extend analog broadcasting.


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## Tom Robertson

reddice said:


> I just hope all local stations in my area switch on the 17th anyway.





robmadden1 said:


> I live in Cincinnati but get those Dayton stations. I wonder what the Cincinnati stations will do?


Rabbitears.com has a very nice and actively updated list of stations and when they are terminating their analog: http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php


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## MIKE0616

Tom Robertson said:


> That point was, much more politely, made in the House today. Namely, how many more will really be ready if we delay until June 12?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Very few will be any more prepared than if it were done *today*.

Over / under on Feb 17: 61% stations will make DTV change <- *under*

Over under on June 12: 6.5% of population will be unprepared for changeover <- *over*


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## Tom Robertson

MIKE0616 said:


> Very few will be any more prepared than if it were done *today*.
> 
> Over / under on Feb 17: 61% stations will make DTV change <- *under*
> 
> Over under on June 12: 6.5% of population will be unprepared for changeover <- *over*


I'm sorry, but as I read this you are expecting/bettin' that fewer than 61% of stations will transition by February 17/18? And more than 6.5% will be unready in June?


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## Tom Robertson

Remember, political discussion or political commentary are not permitted at DBStalk.com. You are welcome to talk about the government actions without commentary of political nature.

If you must make political commentary, please feel free to do so at someother site.

Thank you.


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## tnsprin

So does anyone know a site with quick summary of when each station (by DMA) will switch. The mixed dates is going to be worse for people to figure out than before. I am sure a bunch of people will now delay getting a converter box and then discover that their favorite channels converted to Digital only come Feb 17..


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## Tom Robertson

tnsprin said:


> So does anyone know a site with quick summary of when each station (by DMA) will switch. The mixed dates is going to be worse for people to figure out than before. I am sure a bunch of people will now delay getting a converter box and then discover that their favorite channels converted to Digital only come Feb 17..


Rabbitears seems to be tracking this as well as anyone: http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php


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## ApK

rlgold88 said:


> I just wish the Gov. could make a decision and stick with it instead of voting to delay a decision.


Blindly march forward no matter what the reality is? No, it's good that in CONCEPT they can review a decision and modify their plans...just it was a bad decision in this case.

They are holding back 95% of the country for a 5% that obviously doesn't watch TV anyway, cuz if they were watching TV, they'd have heard about the transition with enough time to do something about it! :nono:


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## sswheeler

I think they are having problems finding where the rainy day fund rock in the yard is so people can get issued the coupons to get there DTV converters that they have been talking about for a long time now. I think it's been well over a year now. My opinion, everyone has been well informed about this, if they can't handle the date of Feb 17, then there loss and not for the people that are ready for it.


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## bobcamp1

Tom Robertson said:


> That point was, much more politely, made in the House today. Namely, how many more will really be ready if we delay until June 12?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


More people will be ready. And they'll have coupons that they can use.
Some will never be ready, mostly because they just don't understand. Some simply aren't smart enough and some has been fed misinformation.

Stations have already applied for a 30 day "nightlight", which is permission to continue broadcasting in analog which will be used to tell people what happened and also for emergencies. So it won't "go dark" on the 17th.

I if were handling it, sometime in October I would have organized something where the analog stations would be nightlighted for 24-48 hours then turned back on again. Of course, D* would have accidentally nightlighted my FOX and NBC affiliates, as D* was still using the analog feeds for those stations at the time. (Actually, for FOX they still are!) But it would be a warning of what was to come and would be something people could understand and then react to.

The current bill is a mess, as some stations will switch anyway and some won't. But it's better than nothing.


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## TomMac

robmadden1 said:


> The stations in Dayton, Ohio are likely to transition on the original date.


WHIO channel 7-CBS, WKEF channel 22-ABC & WRGT channel 45-FOX have stated they will shut down their analog transmitters this month. Hopefully they will not back off and honor the June date.


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## Mike500

Our local NBC affiliate has already anounced that they will go digital only on February 18, and will cut off analog at that timeNo, they WILL NOT delay with analog shutoff. It cost them money to keep analog up, and they already have the crew working on the antenna switch for DTV at their main analog antenna.

*Those people who won't or can't buy the converter box won't have money to buy anything from their advertisers, anyway.*


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## Mark Holtz

So, when is the bill signing for this historic bill? 

More importantly, if the station has been advertising since last year the February 17th transition date, does it technically qualify for the 30 days?


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## Tom Robertson

Haven't heard when the signing will be yet.

Everyone in the House was talking as tho any station formerly required to transition on the 17th, could still go on February 17. (Yes, I know, I abused the future past tense by already using formerly, but we know what will happen to make this a true statement...)


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## Brent04

Were did you get the "approximately 60% plan to switch on February 17 if permitted" from? My local NBC station said that only 20% plan on switching on Feb. 17 and that they are going to wait until June.


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## Tom Robertson

Brent04 said:


> Were did you get the "approximately 60% plan to switch on February 17 if permitted" from? My local NBC station said that only 20% plan on switching on Feb. 17 and that they are going to wait until June.


Was quoted by both sides in the House debate this afternoon as coming from the Acting Chair of the FCC. There is quite a long list on Rabbitears, but I haven't counted yet. (Both too lazy and too willing to justify it as things being too much in-flux...[oh wait, would that be redundant?]) :lol:

Cheers,
Tom


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## reddice

According to Rabbitears it shows no NYC station switching on the 17th. This sux because right now I can't get channels 2 and 13 and was looking forward to 13 on the 18th.


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## Link

I'm glad this left stations the freedom to go ahead and switch on February 17th. It seems RIDICULOUS to delay it with the February 17th date being so close. I don't know why with all the economic problems in our country that they are wasting their time on discussing this and that silly coupon program.


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## robmadden1

Some wonderfully-informed congresswoman was on the floor of the House today talking about how we need to delay this to June because if we don't, our emergency responders won't be able to talk to each other. Someone else then pointed out how confused she is and basically stated that most of the Congress doesn't know what the hell they're doing/voting on.


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## B. Shoe

WGEM-TV in Quincy, Illinois, also announced today that it will transition over to digital-only broadcasting on February 17. KHQA, the other station in the market, is expected to make a similar announcement later in the week.

http://www.wgem.com/Global/story.asp?S=9789464

The PBS affiliate actually already has converted, if I recall.


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## reddice

Looked on WNET site but it still shows old information about the 2/17 date. Does not mention the new 6/12 date and does not mention if they will be switching on 2/17 anyways.


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## leww37334

robmadden1 said:


> Some wonderfully-informed congresswoman was on the floor of the House today talking about how we need to delay this to June because if we don't, our emergency responders won't be able to talk to each other. Someone else then pointed out how confused she is and basically stated that most of the Congress doesn't know what the hell they're doing/voting on.


The sad thing about this is that NBC will probably pick this statement up and offer a news story supporting her comments.


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## Chuck W

This whole thing is just gonna cause more issues than it will solve, come the 17th. Mr/Mrs analog TV viewer sees the delay announcement and sits back and relaxes, thinking they can again wait till the last possible minute to get ready for the changeover, in June. However, Feb 17th rolls around and THEIR local stations decide to pull the plug on analog anyway. Now they ARE gonna miss out on programming until they can get everything in place to receive digital.

60% of the stations are switching over anyway, so just keep it at the 17th and everyone will know they NEED to be ready on that day, period. Honestly, the people who are not ready for the changeover are most likely people who just kept putting it off till the last minute. Feb/June won't change anything because I bet most will AGAIN wait till the last minute(assuming they can cause their locals didn't switch over already) and be in the same situation, come June.

:nono2: :nono: The minds in Congress still continue to astound me.


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## mikep554

My local Best Buy has a big stack of converter boxes in an isle with a big sign on top. Funny thing is that because of distance and topography, nobody around here can get any network's signals OTA, analog or digital, except for a REALLY snowy/ghosted signal from an independant station out of Bellingham.

I wonder how many unsold converter boxes will be tossed out or sold for $5 around Sept/Oct when corporate stores in no-signal areas realize they aren't ever going to move their back stock of 5000 converter boxes?


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## James Long

*Despite Wednesday's vote, WNDU will still go digital Feb. 17*
Despite the fact that Congress voted Wednesday to delay the digital transition to June 12, it's still WNDU's plan to go fully digital on February 17th.

Like many stations across the country and this market. We've already filed a 30 day notice with the federal government to turn off our analog signal.

Our legal counsel is keeping up on the situation in Washington.

We'll continue to update you on how Wednesday's vote affects both us, and you.​ALL stations in my market have agreed to go on or before February 17th.
Power to the people!


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## Scott in FL

So, if 60% of the stations do switch off their analog transmitters on February 17, doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of the delay? People who aren't ready to receive digital won't receive anything.

Worse yet, I may be wrong, but I assume that because the transition was delayed then the move to new channels and higher power for those digital stations not at their final allocations can not occur until June. So those who are ready for the switch, but would benefit from the final transition channel and power allotments, are out of luck until June.

My Mom in Denver is in exactly that situation. She'll lose ABC analog on February 17, but her rabbit ears don't receive the digital ABC signal very well. That will change in June when the digital moves to channel 7. So it's very possible she will lose at least ABC from February to June.

Am I missing something here? Won't this bill make things worse? Seems to me it would be a lot better if we just gone on with it.


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## Tom Robertson

My hope for your mom is that everyone switches in her area so then she's good.

Good luck,
Tom


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## Matman

Scott in FL said:


> So, if 60% of the stations do switch off their analog transmitters on February 17, doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of the delay? People who aren't ready to receive digital won't receive anything.
> 
> Worse yet, I may be wrong, but I assume that because the transition was delayed then the move to new channels and higher power for those digital stations not at their final allocations can not occur until June. So those who are ready for the switch, but would benefit from the final transition channel and power allotments, are out of luck until June.
> 
> My Mom in Denver is in exactly that situation. She'll lose ABC analog on February 17, but her rabbit ears don't receive the digital ABC signal very well. That will change in June when the digital moves to channel 7. So it's very possible she will lose at least ABC from February to June.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Won't this bill make things worse? Seems to me it would be a lot better if we just gone on with it.


No, you are excatly right. All this bill does is make things even more confusing for people that didn't get it to begin with. If we are lucky the majority of the stations will switch on their own, the ONLY way the remaining people out there are gonna make the switch is when they have to. Our local best buy has a STACK of those boxes sitting in the entryway on sale for $49.99 or something like that, and they aren't moving any of em......


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## Brandon428

I say we just forget HD altogether.  I knew this would happen!


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## robmadden1

I saw a big stack in my Best Buy (Apex brand) of converter boxs siktting on a pallet. Over half the pallet was empty.


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## PicaKing

neljtorres said:


> Watch it is going to be the same crap on June alot of people will still not be ready! And what are they going to do? Delay again! It's the same crap when you fill out the taxes the due date is on April and there are still people that don't send it out on April! Do they get a extension for this? Hell NO!!!!


Actually, yes--there is an automatic extension until October if desired


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## Mark Holtz

This is what I see from the Sacramento websites:
KCRA/KQCA - No countdown, but lists February 17th as the date on the DTV page
KVIE - Has June 12th on their DTV page
KXTV - Lists February 17th and the coundown clock is showing 13 days
KOVR/KMAX - The countdown clock shows 128 days
KUVS - Unable to determine from website
KSPX - Unable to determine from website
KTXL - Lists February 17th, clock is counting down for the 17th
I don't consider any of this official though until I see an actual press release.


----------



## robmadden1

*FCC commissioners release statements re: today's vote*

From Acting Chairman Michael Copps:

"I welcome Congressional passage of the DTV Delay Act. It has long been clear to me--and it's even clearer since I became Acting FCC Chairman two weeks ago--that the country is not prepared to undertake a nationwide transition in twelve days without unacceptably high consumer dislocation. The additional four months provided by the law affords urgently-needed time for a more phased transition, including a consumer-friendly converter box coupon program, stepped-up consumer outreach and support--particularly for vulnerable populations--and dealing with coverage, antenna and reception issues that went too long unaddressed. We've got a lot of work to do, but thanks to great leadership in the Senate and House of Representatives, we now have an opportunity to do it better."

From Commissioner Robert McDowell:

"Today, a majority of the directly elected representatives of the American people, the U.S. Congress, has clearly expressed its desire to postpone the deadline for the cessation of analog full-power television broadcasts to June 12, 2009. I look forward to joining my two colleagues, Acting Chairman Copps and Commissioner Adelstein, in quickly implementing the will of the Congress. I know we will do all that we can to minimize the inevitable disruption and confusion this transition will cause. In the meantime, let's all stay on message: if you need a converter box, get it today and hook it up today and start enjoying the benefits of digital television today."

Source: www.fcc.gov


----------



## joblo

Network news coverage of Delay Act passage in House, 2009-02-04: 

ABC/Gibson: 18 seconds, 8 minutes in, anchor only, no tease
CBS/Couric: 18 seconds, 11 minutes in, anchor only, no tease
NBC/Williams: 2 minutes, 10 minutes in, teased in opening
PBS/Lehrer: 9 minutes, 45 minutes in, teased in opening

Only PBS mentioned that some stations may turn off analog on the 17th anyway.


----------



## Tom Robertson

joblo said:


> Network news coverage of Delay Act passage in House, 2009-02-04:
> 
> ABC/Gibson: 18 seconds, 8 minutes in, anchor only, no tease
> CBS/Couric: 18 seconds, 11 minutes in, anchor only, no tease
> NBC/Williams: 2 minutes, 10 minutes in, teased in opening
> PBS/Lehrer: 9 minutes, 45 minutes in, teased in opening
> 
> Only PBS mentioned that some stations may turn off analog on the 17th anyway.


ABC and CBS must not have been ready for this...  (yeah right.)

I'll have to watch "the lads", Jon Stewart/Stuart (inside joke) and Stephen Colbert to see how _they cover_ this. !rolling

Edit: And thanks, joblo, for the info. Quite interesting.


----------



## robmadden1

http://www.wcpo.com/content/dtv-transition/default.aspx

Has count down clock.


----------



## James Long

PicaKing said:


> neljtorres said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch it is going to be the same crap on June alot of people will still not be ready! And what are they going to do? Delay again! It's the same crap when you fill out the taxes the due date is on April and there are still people that don't send it out on April! Do they get a extension for this? Hell NO!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, yes--there is an automatic extension until October if desired
Click to expand...

Source?


----------



## robmadden1

WLWT 5 showed a new graphic tonight saying 14 days till transition.


----------



## Tom Robertson

robmadden1 said:


> http://www.wcpo.com/content/dtv-transition/default.aspx
> 
> Has count down clock.


Either they are going a day early or they have the wrong time...


----------



## James Long

joblo said:


> NBC/Williams: 2 minutes, 10 minutes in, teased in opening


Nice piece, except that Mr Williams said "8 days from now" in the introduction. It is 13 ish. 
Good to see volunteers donating boxes and a demo of how to connect the box.


----------



## MIKE0616

Tom Robertson said:


> I'm sorry, but as I read this you are expecting/bettin' that fewer than 61% of stations will transition by February 17/18? And more than 6.5% will be unready in June?


Yes, that is what I am saying.

*Logic:* 
Stations will want to be available via analog as long as others in their DMA are, so less than 61% will go dark, even if it costs them more to operate. Its all about the advertising $$$s, nothing more.

The 6.5% of the folks that are not going to be ready by 2/17/2009 will not be ready by 2/17/2109, if they can possibly keep getting delays. There are flks who are lazy and *nothing* will change that.


----------



## steve053

Tom Robertson said:


> My frustrations are on several levels.
> 
> 1) Too bad the NTIA and Commerce dept. didn't forecast better about coupon shortage...


There was no problem with their forcast. Just looke at E-Bay now. You can 'purchase' a coupon as well as find converters well below list. :nono:


----------



## Tom Robertson

MIKE0616 said:


> Yes, that is what I am saying.
> 
> *Logic:*
> Stations will want to be available via analog as long as others in their DMA are, so less than 61% will go dark, even if it costs them more to operate. Its all about the advertising $$$s, nothing more.
> 
> The 6.5% of the folks that are not going to be ready by 2/17/2009 will not be ready by 2/17/2109, if they can possibly keep getting delays. There are flks who are lazy and *nothing* will change that.


I suspect that as of today, there are already fewer than 6.5M households, as the was a 3 week old statistic with 300,000 coupons being redeemed each week. Hence my suspicions about your bets.

The question becomes how many Nielsen families haven't switched... which is what all advertising $$ are based upon... 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## BattleScott

TomMac said:


> WHIO channel 7-CBS, WKEF channel 22-ABC & WRGT channel 45-FOX have stated they will shut down their analog transmitters this month. Hopefully they will not back off and honor the June date.


I have an ATSC tuner in my HDTV that can tune the digital transmissions today and I am also receiving them via DirecTV. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether they shut the analog signals down on the Feb. 17th, June 12th or the 12th of Never.


----------



## Phydeaux

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they already delay it to 2009 a few years ago? Wasn't this supposed to happen in 2007 or 2006?

Also does anybody have any idea what was different between the first act that failed and the second that passed?


----------



## HoTat2

I really don't see the logic of this delay unless it contains some sort of mandate for the broadcasters to maintain the analog OTA signal until June 12 which it doesn't. This way, the only result now is some kind of confusing staggered shut-down drawn out until June 12 within the various markets based on the individual broadcaster's choice.

Therefore this is largely useless legislation, and if the President were anyway tech savvy (at least he demonstrates as much with a Blackberry  ) he shouldn't even sign it IMHO.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Phydeaux said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they already delay it to 2009 a few years ago? Wasn't this supposed to happen in 2007 or 2006?


You are correct. The timetable was not set but was based upon an 85% adoption of digital readiness which may or may not have included cable/satellite.. Became moot when the date was extended to a hard date of before February 18. (Give or take a second or two, depending on how you figure when the 18th actually starts.) 


Phydeaux said:


> Also does anybody have any idea what was different between the first act that failed and the second that passed?


Yes. Lots of people here know.  (We discussed it in the earlier thread.)

Basically, the earlier bill failed because it had items that had financial consequences built in. House Rules require all bills to be "Pay as You Go" via some sort of financial offset or an appropriation bill.

Therefore that first bill was introduced in the House had to be processed via suspending the Rules, specifically the Pay as You Go clause. Which requires a 2/3rds majority of the House. Said 2/3rds majority was not reached.

This new bill added a clause that the funding for this bill would come from another bill authorizing the funding, so it could be introduced via the Rules committee to bypass the normal tracking thru the proper committee and normal House calendar.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Lincoln6Echo

This is so stupid. I mean the delay is due to the lack of funds for the digital-analog converter boxes for those who don't have cable or sat, right? This affects approx 5% of the viewing public. Can everybody repeat after me? So the F what!?!? These are the same percentage that probably still has a rotary dial phone in their house.


----------



## sswheeler

FOX and NBC in the Des Moines area have said that they will switch over on the 17th as planned. Lets see if that changes.


----------



## scooper

In the big scheme of things - a government that will give big banks a $700 Billion bailout (initially with no strings attached) could have easily provided another $1 or $2 billion for more coupon funding...


----------



## lwilli201

The number of the "not ready group" will start dwindling real quick when 61% of the stations go digital only on Feb 17. A lot of TV's will have nothing but static. That should wake up many people.


----------



## James Long

And for those who think it is over when the president signs the bill into law ...

Until President Obama signs the bill into law there is nothing that the FCC can do other than privately think about what they want to do. The legal staff is probably thinking about it. Once there is a law S.352 gives the FCC 30 days to come up with rules. Which means Acting Chairman Copps will need to get a NPRM (notice of proposed rulemaking) out pretty quick with comment dates and deadlines, get said NPRM published in the Federal Register. Accept said comments and reply comments. Then rule on the NPRM and comments issuing an R&O (report and order) that actually, at that moment, changes the date from February 17th to June 12th.

Until the R&O is out the FCC rules governing transition have not changed.


----------



## Mike500

lwilli201 said:


> The number of the "not ready group" will start dwindling real quick when 61% of the stations go digital only on Feb 17. A lot of TV's will have nothing but static. That should wake up many people.


Yeah, these are those so called, "Don't do anything until it hits them in the face types."

They don't pay the electric bill, water bill or cable bull, until the provider cuts it off.

Only when analog off is when they will get off of the duff and do something.

Tjos types will always be around.


----------



## Mike500

The law will be called P.L. 111-3?, becuase it is the 111st Congress and it's a Plublic. Obama has signed two bills, so it will be #3 or whatever is the next number.


----------



## Tom Robertson

James Long said:


> And for those who think it is over when the president signs the bill into law ...
> 
> Until President Obama signs the bill into law there is nothing that the FCC can do other than privately think about what they want to do. The legal staff is probably thinking about it. Once there is a law S.352 gives the FCC 30 days to come up with rules. Which means Acting Chairman Copps will need to get a NPRM (notice of proposed rulemaking) out pretty quick with comment dates and deadlines, get said NPRM published in the Federal Register. Accept said comments and reply comments. Then rule on the NPRM and comments issuing an R&O (report and order) that actually, at that moment, changes the date from February 17th to June 12th.
> 
> Until the R&O is out the FCC rules governing transition have not changed.


James, thanks for the FCC process info.
Are you aware of any ways to fast track an R&O?

I note an open house has been scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Can they present NPRM there and perhaps publish it that night?

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## lwilli201

James Long said:


> And for those who think it is over when the president signs the bill into law ...
> 
> Until President Obama signs the bill into law there is nothing that the FCC can do other than privately think about what they want to do. The legal staff is probably thinking about it. Once there is a law S.352 gives the FCC 30 days to come up with rules. Which means Acting Chairman Copps will need to get a NPRM (notice of proposed rulemaking) out pretty quick with comment dates and deadlines, get said NPRM published in the Federal Register. Accept said comments and reply comments. Then rule on the NPRM and comments issuing an R&O (report and order) that actually, at that moment, changes the date from February 17th to June 12th.
> 
> Until the R&O is out the FCC rules governing transition have not changed.


So if stations do not turn off the analogue on Feb 17, they would be in noncompliance with current rules?


----------



## Tom Robertson

Mike500 said:


> The law will be called P.L. 111-3?, becuase it is the 111st Congress and it's a Plublic. Obama has signed two bills, so it will be #3 or whatever is the next number.


#3 was the CHIP bill signed today. So I'm guessing it will be #4. Thanks for the update on the process.


----------



## Tom Robertson

lwilli201 said:


> So if stations do not turn off the analogue on Feb 17, they would be in noncompliance with current rules?


As of this moment, yes. Until the FCC finishes it's R&O, which you gotta believe will be before the 17th.


----------



## lwilli201

Tom Robertson said:


> As of this moment, yes. Until the FCC finishes it's R&O, which you gotta believe will be before the 17th.


Isn't there a requirement for a Public Comment period in the rulemaking process?


----------



## Tom Robertson

lwilli201 said:


> Isn't there a requirement for a Public Comment period in the rulemaking process?


Not sure. Ideally, absolutely. 

And I'm not sure if tomorrow's open house qualifies as such.


----------



## scooper

The FCC is going to have to move at Warp speed, for them, to make that happen. 

Timeline -
Feb 5 - Pres Obama signs bill (hopefully in the morning)
FCC issues NPRM, opens for comments
NLT Feb 11 - end date for comments, start accept replies
NLT Feb 15 - end date for replies, 
NLT Feb 16 issue R&O


----------



## Tom Robertson

scooper said:


> The FCC is going to have to move at Warp speed, for them, to make that happen.
> 
> Timeline -
> Feb 5 - Pres Obama signs bill (hopefully in the morning)
> FCC issues NPRM, opens for comments
> NLT Feb 11 - end date for comments, start accept replies
> NLT Feb 15 - end date for replies,
> NLT Feb 16 issue R&O


Guesses, based on rules, or solid info with a link?

And 15th is a Sunday, by the way. How does the FCC typically handle Sundays?

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## MIKE0616

Tom Robertson said:


> Guesses, based on rules, or solid info with a link?
> 
> And 15th is a Sunday, by the way. How does the FCC typically handle Sundays?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom


From what I can find, usually the comment period is 60 days and the reply period is usually 14 or more days.

Cannot find the statute that provides the minimum times, but they do exist and if the law passed by congress does not provide for shorter periods, it may well be sometime in May before the process is complete.

Have not read entire law, but it may contain a provision to implement immediately, although that would create more than a few headaches to the FCC, but then, congress has never cared about inconveniencing anyone.


----------



## James Long

Mike500 said:


> The law will be called P.L. 111-3?, becuase it is the 111st Congress and it's a Plublic. Obama has signed two bills, so it will be #3 or whatever is the next number.


111-4 looks good to me. (Factoring in CHIP as mentioned by Tom.) I don't believe anything else is pending the president's signature.

BTW: PL 111-1 (S.J.RES.3) was cleared for the white house on January 7th, presented to the president on January 14th and signed January 16th. PL 111-2 (S.181) was cleared for the white house on January 27th, presented to the president on January 28th and signed January 29th.



Tom Robertson said:


> James, thanks for the FCC process info.
> Are you aware of any ways to fast track an R&O?


I'm not sure. The Nightlight bill was signed into law on December 23th. The FCC issued the NPRM on December 24th with a five day comment and eight day reply comment deadline from the date that the NPRM was published in the federal register. Publication in the federal register was December 31st setting the comment and reply dates as Jan 5th and 8th. In that case there was a deadline of January 15th for FCC action and Chairman Martin met that deadline.

I don't believe they can R&O without a NPRM and a comment period. Even if the FCC decided on day 9 after publication in the federal register I don't believe they have the time to get it done in 12 days (signed tomorrow)?

Acting Chairman Copps may set an extremely short comment period, but with federal register publication delays it would be amazing to have an R&O before February 17th. Just another flaw in the law ... they specifically gave the FCC 30 days to change the regulations. 

Station lawyers practicing before the FCC are standing by ... 



> I note an open house has been scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. Can they present NPRM there and perhaps publish it that night?


They can put out the NPRM without the public meeting. There will still be a delay to get it in the federal register. Probably not the week it took over Christmas. 3 working days? Publication on Tuesday with one week to go?

DTV Delay is NOT on the agenda for tomorrow's meeting ... but agendas can be changed. They will NOT be able to R&O based on a couple hour comment period.


----------



## lwilli201

MIKE0616 said:


> From what I can find, usually the comment period is 60 days and the reply period is usually 14 or more days.
> 
> Cannot find the statute that provides the minimum times, but they do exist and if the law passed by congress does not provide for shorter periods, it may well be sometime in May before the process is complete.
> 
> Have not read entire law, but it may contain a provision to implement immediately, although that would create more than a few headaches to the FCC, but then, congress has never cared about inconveniencing anyone.


The Bill gives the FCC 30 days to publish the new rules, SEC 4(c)


----------



## scooper

Tom Robertson said:


> Guesses, based on rules, or solid info with a link?
> 
> And 15th is a Sunday, by the way. How does the FCC typically handle Sundays?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom


Guesses on my part - I'm assuming that they consider this THAT important to do this. I may be totally out to lunch as well.


----------



## James Long

MIKE0616 said:


> Have not read entire law, but it may contain a provision to implement immediately, although that would create more than a few headaches to the FCC, but then, congress has never cared about inconveniencing anyone.


The law is short ... the FCC specifically has 30 days to change their rules.


----------



## lwilli201

The Night Light bill authorizes stations to keep analogue signals active for 30 days after Feb 17. That would cover any stations that do not shut down analogue on Feb 17 according to current rules.


----------



## James Long

lwilli201 said:


> The Night Light bill authorizes stations to keep analogue signals active for 30 days after Feb 17. That would cover any stations that do not shut down analogue on Feb 17 according to current rules.


Not completely. Nightlight allows only emergency messages and non-commercial style sponsorship messages and is limited to about 800 pre-approved stations and any others that can prove no interference to post-transition digital. Nightlights cannot air normal programming.


----------



## Tom Robertson

I think I found the clause the FCC will be required to use to bypass the normal rule making process.

By the way, as near as I can tell, all the agency rule making is governed by Title 5 of the U.S.C., Part 1, chapter 5. (Sections 500-600ish)

The clause: 5USC553


> (b) General notice of proposed rule making shall be published in the
> Federal Register, unless persons subject thereto are named and either
> personally served or otherwise have actual notice thereof in accordance
> with law. The notice shall include-...
> 
> ...Except when notice or hearing is required by statute, this subsection
> does not apply--
> (A) to interpretative rules, general statements of policy, or
> rules of agency organization, procedure, or practice; or
> *(B) when the agency for good cause finds (and incorporates the
> finding and a brief statement of reasons therefor in the rules
> issued) that notice and public procedure thereon are impracticable,
> unnecessary, or contrary to the public interest.*


(Bolding mine)

Seems to indicate that the FCC would merely quote the finding and brief statement from the Public law (after President Obama signs it.)

I'm still digging as to what happens after the notice is bypassed.

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## brant

a couple of locals here switched to digital only a couple of weeks ago. watching the news tonight, a couple more said they are still switching on feb. 17th, so i'm not sure how much this bill will really help. 

seems like the stations that were already setup to switch are going to go ahead with it anyway.


----------



## kb7oeb

joblo said:


> Network news coverage of Delay Act passage in House, 2009-02-04:
> 
> ABC/Gibson: 18 seconds, 8 minutes in, anchor only, no tease
> CBS/Couric: 18 seconds, 11 minutes in, anchor only, no tease
> NBC/Williams: 2 minutes, 10 minutes in, teased in opening
> PBS/Lehrer: 9 minutes, 45 minutes in, teased in opening
> 
> Only PBS mentioned that some stations may turn off analog on the 17th anyway.


It was 45Min in for me on PBS News Hour

Audio of the segment here http://www-tc.pbs.org/newshour/rss/media/2009/02/04/20090204_dtv.mp3 , the guest said 1/4 of all stations have already applied to shutdown on 2/17.


----------



## hasan

scooper said:


> In the big scheme of things - a government that will give big banks a $700 Billion bailout (initially with no strings attached) could have easily provided another $1 or $2 billion for more coupon funding...


240 million, not billions would cover the 6.5 million not yet having boxes. That money will be in the stimulus bill.


----------



## James Long

Tom Robertson said:


> I think I found the clause the FCC will be required to use to bypass the normal rule making process.
> 
> By the way, as near as I can tell, all the agency rule making is governed by Title 5 of the U.S.C., Part 1, chapter 5. (Sections 500-600ish)
> 
> The clause: 5USC553


From the nightlight NPRM:


> Given the "urgent necessity for rapid administrative action under the circumstances,"5 we believe that there is good cause to dispense with notice and comment requirements under the Administrative Procedure Act.6
> 
> Footnotes:
> 5 Omnipoint Corp. v. FCC, 78 F.3d 620, 629 (D.C. Cir. 1996) (upholding seven-day comment period for rules in twice-delayed C Block auction given urgent necessity for rapid administrative action) (internal quotes and cites omitted).
> 6 See 5 U.S.C. § 553(b); Petry v. Block, 737 F.2d 1193, 1200-01 (D.C. Cir. 1984) (holding that the limited time Congress gave the Department of Agriculture was a "crucial factor in establishing 'good cause'"). See also Analog Nightlight Act, Section 2(a) ("Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Federal Communications Commission shall, not later than January 15, 2009, develop and implement a program&#8230.


I believe you found the right part of U S Code. The congressional mandate is 30 days, but they could move faster. I hope they provide SOME comment period. Unless, of course, the FCC's R&O supports the February 17th shutoff of 60% to 100% of analog stations.


----------



## Mark Holtz

At this point, I throw up my hands and walk away from this unless yet another delay is proposed from the June date. Obama has stated he will sign the bill, and nothing will stop that. So, now what? Are the stations who will still shut down on February 17th going to be hit with FCC complaints that the early shutdown that they are not operating "in the public interest"? Or, will the stations who stick with the 2/17 date later on face a massive letter writing campaign to be placed in the public interest file when the station's license comes up for renewal? 

All that I can tell is that on January 9th, less than 30 days ago, this became a major issue. It became major headline news when the Senate passed the DTV Delay act, but hardly any mention when the house defeated the bill, and the Senate passed Take 2. The house passage of Take 2 is generating some headlines, but not as a major. Just something to make you go Hmmmm.....

It would be interesting to examine this one year from today.


----------



## samhevener

In 6 months this DVTV delay won't even be on anyone's mind and we still won't have any first responders using the new 700mhz band as their primary communications channel.


----------



## BenJF3

Well, one local affiliate here (WKTV) which is the only station in the DMA that has a local newscast and is the number 1 station in the market with the largest coverage patter has already announced on the air this morning that they are sticking with the original date of 2/17. They have already begun to run a crawl on the analog signal stating that as of 2/17 it will be shut down. I am contacting other locals to find out their intentions.


----------



## paulman182

BenJF3 said:


> Well, one local affiliate here (WKTV) which is the only station in the DMA that has a local newscast and is the number 1 station in the market with the largest coverage patter has already announced on the air this morning that they are sticking with the original date of 2/17. They have already begun to run a crawl on the analog signal stating that as of 2/17 it will be shut down. I am contacting other locals to find out their intentions.


The highest-rated local in this area is sticking to February 17, also.

Unless they change their mind...


----------



## lwilli201

Mark Holtz said:


> At this point, I throw up my hands and walk away from this unless yet another delay is proposed from the June date. Obama has stated he will sign the bill, and nothing will stop that. So, now what? Are the stations who will still shut down on February 17th going to be hit with FCC complaints that the early shutdown that they are not operating "in the public interest"? Or, will the stations who stick with the 2/17 date later on face a massive letter writing campaign to be placed in the public interest file when the station's license comes up for renewal?
> 
> All that I can tell is that on January 9th, less than 30 days ago, this became a major issue. It became major headline news when the Senate passed the DTV Delay act, but hardly any mention when the house defeated the bill, and the Senate passed Take 2. The house passage of Take 2 is generating some headlines, but not as a major. Just something to make you go Hmmmm.....
> 
> It would be interesting to examine this one year from today.


The bill is a CYA for the politicians. It puts all the heat on the TV stations. We must commend those stations that bite the bullet and shut down the analogue. In reality it will take only one or two stations in each DMA to shut off the analogue to get message out. The only place where there will still be those not ready are in DMA's where all stations wait until the last minute.


----------



## SamC

Let me, as one of the many who told you so years ago, explain this.

The analog shut down will NEVER occur. In June there will be another "emergency" and a bill to extend it to next February. Then to next September. Eventually Congress will grow tired of it and say the give back willl occur when the FCC or some other agency certifies some never to exist set of conditions have been met.

In 2010, 2020, and 2030, your local staiton will STILL be broadcasting in both analog and digital. And the digital will be used for additional pay programming, not HD duplicates of your local networks.

It will never happen. Never.


----------



## Scott in FL

SamC said:


> It will never happen. Never.


Although the cynic in me wants to agree, I can't. For two big reasons: Verizon and AT&T. They've paid a lot of money for the analog frequencies and they won't stand for an indefinite delay.

Plus, what do do about those stations that have already shut down their analog transmissions, dismantled antennas and waveguide or coax, and scrapped their analog transmitters? You expect them to buy new analog equipment? I don't think so.

And then there's the energy consumption thing.


----------



## BenJF3

SamC said:


> Let me, as one of the many who told you so years ago, explain this.
> 
> The analog shut down will NEVER occur. In June there will be another "emergency" and a bill to extend it to next February. Then to next September. Eventually Congress will grow tired of it and say the give back willl occur when the FCC or some other agency certifies some never to exist set of conditions have been met.
> 
> In 2010, 2020, and 2030, your local staiton will STILL be broadcasting in both analog and digital. And the digital will be used for additional pay programming, not HD duplicates of your local networks.
> 
> It will never happen. Never.


Umm, No. Many stations are already switched and most are switching as scheduled. Stations are NOT going to revive their analog signal if the cut them and are not going to keep them even if they could. The cost is a massive burden on the station to operate both transmitters. Most of the engineers I have talked to locally say the savings here come to approx $15K a month. There is not incentive for stations that have already switched or have a digital feed already to keep an analog signal on the air. This whole delay is just Government mucking up the works.

The DTV Coupon program should have been done as a rebate. You buy the box and submit a claim for a $40 rebate. They should not have just dumped 1.4 billion into a pot and said "Here You Go".


----------



## BattleScott

samhevener said:


> In 6 months this DVTV delay won't even be on anyone's mind and we still won't have any first responders using the new 700mhz band as their primary communications channel.


Has anyone even emerged with a plan to build-out the alledged "emergency response" network? IIRC, the plan was that one of the winning bidders in the auctions would be inclined to do this, but it didn't work out that way.


----------



## cover

reddice said:


> If many stations are going to switch on 17th anyway then passing this delay is pointless because for the lazy people who are still not ready they still won't get the analog stations. Stations are trying to save money and they really want to turn off their analog because they are wasting money keeping it on.


It is not pointless to the politicians - if any of their constituents gets mad about the transition, the politicians can say they tried to help.


----------



## SamC

This is about small markets and large markets.

In my market (mid 60s) the CBS station was going to move back to its original channel in digital. The transmitter was damaged in the ice storm last week, so they just fired up the new digital on their old channel and shut the analog down early.

And NOBODY noticed. Because there is no crisis. The six people who get OTA only TV had a box.

But in big markets, as I and many others stated years ago, there is much constranation about "the poor" and a "delay". Which will be followed by another delay and then another, until its is all forgotten about.

Small and mid-markets may or may not shut down as scheduled.

But in big markets (O&O markets) this is just a way to distribute extra channels for use as either ad supported (major markets can support more channels with ad revenue than small) channels or Pay Television.

And this was the plan from Jump Street.

It will NEVER happen. 

Remember we told you so three years ago, and I, for one, am telling you so right now.

NEVER.


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## Matman

Burlington stations are reporting that all our locals will be making the switch as planned in Feb. Most have been running a crawler on the bottom of the screen noting they will be going to digital only and will cease all analog transmissions.

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=9791997


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## tkrandall

Checking out the web sites for the Atlanta area stations, they all seem to be reporting the deadline for analog shutoff is now June 12, with no indication from any of them they will shut off on Feb 18. So I guess this entire market will have analog until June. This is unfortunate as while several of the stations are full power at their permanment digital home, I believe 3 of the stations or not yet full power digital, being either

1) Low power and/or temporary lower height transmitter (WPBA)
2) Half power (WATL, at least appears to be half power compared to all other stations around it)
3) WGTV (digital, directional, very low power on RF12, reverting to RF8 only after they shut down their analog on 8.)


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## joblo

scooper said:


> The FCC is going to have to move at Warp speed, for them, to make that happen.
> 
> Timeline -
> Feb 5 - Pres Obama signs bill (hopefully in the morning)
> FCC issues NPRM, opens for comments
> NLT Feb 11 - end date for comments, start accept replies
> NLT Feb 15 - end date for replies,
> NLT Feb 16 issue R&O


Monday the 16th is a federal holiday. Whatever the FCC is going to do will be done NLT Friday the 13th....


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## MIKE0616

joblo said:


> Monday the 16th is a federal holiday. Whatever the FCC is going to do will be done NLT *Friday the 13th*....


How appropriate!


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## bobcamp1

lwilli201 said:


> The bill is a CYA for the politicians. It puts all the heat on the TV stations. We must commend those stations that bite the bullet and shut down the analogue. In reality it will take only one or two stations in each DMA to shut off the analogue to get message out. The only place where there will still be those not ready are in DMA's where all stations wait until the last minute.


That's why I actually sorta like this bill. I would have done it differently, but this isn't bad. Just get one or two stations in each area to switch. That way, people without boxes can still get news & emergency notices while at the same time they now know exactly if they are affected or not.

It looks like my FOX affiliate is now broadcasting a subchannel which is exactly the same as the main channel, but it's in SD. This must be an attempt to make sure the entire area (including cable and satellite subscribers) doesn't lose it completely on the 17th. Which is when they told the FCC they planned to shut off analog. Even though their digital transmitter was down again from 8 PM to 8:10 PM last night. It's a good thing that wasn't when a lot of people watched TV, otherwise they'd be furious.

The new "public emergency channels" are around UHF channels 67.5-69.5. I'm sure if there are any companies developing it, they have filed for permission to broadcast a very low level signal (think "inside the building") as long as there are no channels in that spectrum. Or they're just doing it anyway. Either way, the delay isn't slowing down development or deployment.

The other public/private semi-emergency channels had no serious bidders, so nobody won it. Last time I checked, the FCC was pondering what to do next.


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## joblo

MIKE0616 said:


> joblo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Monday the 16th is a federal holiday. Whatever the FCC is going to do will be done NLT Friday the 13th....
> 
> 
> 
> How appropriate!
Click to expand...

Yep... Honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up...


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## scooper

joblo said:


> Monday the 16th is a federal holiday. Whatever the FCC is going to do will be done NLT Friday the 13th....


I didn't realize that - how appropriate !!!


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## ziggy29

bobcamp1 said:


> It looks like my FOX affiliate is now broadcasting a subchannel which is exactly the same as the main channel, but it's in SD. This must be an attempt to make sure the entire area (including cable and satellite subscribers) doesn't lose it completely on the 17th.


But an SD subchannel is still digital -- it won't help anyone who has only receives OTA through analog (NTSC) tuners.


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## jacksonm30354

tkrandall said:


> Checking out the web sites for the Atlanta area stations, they all seem to be reporting the deadline for analog shutoff is now June 12, with no indication from any of them they will shut off on Feb 18. So I guess this entire market will have analog until June. This is unfortunate as while several of the stations are full power at their permanment digital home, I believe 3 of the stations or not yet full power digital, being either
> 
> 1) Low power and/or temporary lower height transmitter (WPBA)
> 2) Half power (WATL, at least appears to be half power compared to all other stations around it)
> 3) WGTV (digital, directional, very low power on RF12, reverting to RF8 only after they shut down their analog on 8.)


Which if they don't switch Feb 17, causes 2 stations in the adjoining Columbus, GA DMA to be in limbo. They might not be able to switch or atleast unable to go to their desired channels right way. WTVM is currently analog Ch 9 digital 47. Original plan was for them to move to digital on 9, but it's coverage area would be reduced because of GPTV on CH 8 just to the south. They got approval to move to digital on CH. 11 however and keep the larger coverage area. However, they won't be able to move to 11 if WXIA in Atlanta keeps analog on that channel. WLGA analog 66/digital 31 was to move it's digital signal to WTVM's old digital 47 position.

So what happens if the Columbus stations go early and Atlanta doesn't...
Would WTVM stay on 47 and WLGA stay on 31 untul June?
Would WTVM temporarily go digital on 9 until 11 is available?

WTVM.com still has the countdown at 12 days


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## aa9vi

Tom Robertson said:


> Possibly. If the stations they are waiting for switch soon, they can switch as well.


Nope. WBBM-DT can't switch until WISN 12 analog in Milwaukee signs off.


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## James Long

SamC said:


> Remember we told you so three years ago, and I, for one, am telling you so right now.
> 
> NEVER.


Fine. Your opinion has been expressed. In rebuttal I will point to the FACT that hundreds of channels WILL shut down their signals on or by February 17th and even the Democratic leadership that pushed for this delay have promised that they will not ask for another. Whether or not you believe the Democratic leadership will keep their word is a political question we WILL NOT get into here at DBSTalk. Period.

Now let's get back to reality ... what is going on NOW with _*this*_ delay.


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## Scott in FL

jacksonm30354 said:


> So what happens if the Columbus stations go early and Atlanta doesn't...
> Would WTVM stay on 47 and WLGA stay on 31 untul June?


Yes, I think this is exactly what will happen. And it will happen in other markets as well. Which is why I believe this is a bad bill.

You said it best... These stations will be in limbo.

People keep saying such and such a station will go digital or go early. In some cases, stations will only go halfway: sign off analog in February, but not complete the transition to their new channel and power until June.

In other words, if you're counting on receiving digital on the "after transition" allocation, and lose the analog 4 months early, you're scre***.


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## mrb627

It seems to me that since this delay is not required, it is targeted to help the broadcasters that are not ready and pays little to no concern for the receivers that are not ready. Am I missing something?


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## Herdfan

SamC said:


> In 2010, 2020, and 2030, your local staiton will STILL be broadcasting in both analog and digital.


Sam,

I think your and my local stations WILL be shutting down analog on 2/17.


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## SParker

How do we find out how our Reps voted on this?


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## ziggy29

SParker said:


> How do we find out how our Reps voted on this?


Here:

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2009&rollnumber=52


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## SParker

ziggy29 said:


> Here:
> 
> http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.asp?year=2009&rollnumber=52


Thanks, glad to see the rep in my area voted no.


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## tkrandall

Scott in FL said:


> Yes, I think this is exactly what will happen. And it will happen in other markets as well. Which is why I believe this is a bad bill.
> 
> You said it best... These stations will be in limbo.
> 
> People keep saying such and such a station will go digital or go early. In some cases, stations will only go halfway: sign off analog in February, but not complete the transition to their new channel and power until June.
> 
> In other words, if you're counting on receiving digital on the "after transition" allocation, and lose the analog 4 months early, you're scre***.


I wish the Atlanta stations would go public with their official plans. This matter of holding other market stations transition plans hostage by keeping analog alive is very annoying. What is lost in all of this how many cases are there where analog interference will prevents the transitison to full digital power on existing or eventual permanent digital RF assignment. I think two, maybe three, mainstream stations in the Atlanta market are not yet full power digital.


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## James Long

mrb627 said:


> It seems to me that since this delay is not required, it is targeted to help the broadcasters that are not ready and pays little to no concern for the receivers that are not ready. Am I missing something?


Yes. There are stations who are operating their digital operations at low power or above channel 51 that need analog shut down so they can go to full power on their post-transition channel.



Herdfan said:


> Sam,
> 
> I think your and my local stations WILL be shutting down analog on 2/17.


That would be ironic.


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## scooper

Ditto - no word on the Raleigh stations either - and we have MAJOR fruitbasket upset going on (about 3 out of 8 stations are on Final DTV).


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## leww37334

SParker said:


> How do we find out how our Reps voted on this?


 A MUCH more interesting question would be how did these same people vote on the original measure in 2005.


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## Tom Robertson

aa9vi said:


> Nope. WBBM-DT can't switch until WISN 12 analog in Milwaukee signs off.


Just looked at rabbitears, WISN isn't on the list yet. But there is always hope.

Good luck,
Tom


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## Herdfan

James Long said:


> That would be ironic.


Yes, very.


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## phox_mulder

Rabbitears has bad information on the Utah stations.

KUTV is not switching on the 15th, but the 17th at 1pm with all the other stations that are sticking with the original date.

I notified the people in charge at KUTV to let the Rabbitears folks know of their error.


phox


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## loudo

WGME Channel 13, in Portland, Maine has the story about the postponement but added their comment after it. You will find it 6 stories down under "Top Stories" (It get moved further down as they constantly update the site).
http://www.wgme.com/


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## James Long

phox_mulder said:


> Rabbitears has bad information on the Utah stations.
> 
> KUTV is not switching on the 15th, but the 17th at 1pm with all the other stations that are sticking with the original date.
> 
> I notified the people in charge at KUTV to let the Rabbitears folks know of their error.


RabbitEars is updated based on FCC information. If there is a date there it came from a FCC filing.

KUTV DT CBS 02 34 34 NSO 02/15/09 Four Points

NSO means Trip got the info from a notice of silent operation. The FCC entered a whole bunch of those a couple of weeks ago (before the date change legislation was introduced). It would be an FCC error.

Trip is relying on the FCC and not on personal reports. The big question is in what week the station is going off the air more than the exact day. Close enough for government sourced work.


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## Tom Robertson

Please continue this discussion in the  FCC Publishes Public Notice thread.

Thanks for all your posts,
Tom


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