# DirecTV to stop marketing TiVo



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

From Reuters:

*Summit-DirecTV to stop marketing TiVo*

DirecTV Group Inc. on Wednesday said it plans to stop marketing digital video recorders from TiVo Inc. this year, as part of a broader plan to replace them with News Corp.-created technology, a top executive said on Wednesday.

DirecTV is TiVo's single largest customer and accounts for two-thirds of TiVo's total subscribers.

By October, the top U.S. satellite television operator plans to begin selling a new digital video recorder and set top box that will feature technology made by NDS Group Plc, a company that shares a controlling shareholder with DirecTV in News Corp.

FULL ARTICLE HERE


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

Just like Macintosh going Intel ... this will take a couple of years for full implementation.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

So, in effect, D* is now saying "We don't care about quality and to <bleep> with what our most loyal customers want"

SO now I have to choose between a company that makes me wait 3 weeks for a repair date (E*) or a company that is actively telling me they don't want my business (because I want an HD satellite receiver with TiVo software).

"The customer is always right" indeed....

How many clue-by-fours do the execs at D* need to be hit with in order to "get it"?


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## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Yawn...none of this is new news...EXCEPT this part Quote...from the article...
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"If you don't have a (digital video recorder) from us, you won't be getting the DirecTV experience," Carey said. "TiVo will only be available to the people who would ask."

------------------------
Which tells me that they Will continue support for Tivo...just ask for it, as it will
not be the standard issue DVR.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

There have been rumors before that D* would put features in their NDS units that are unavailable on Tivo, to "encourage" the "right" purchase decision. I assume such would be more than the "VOD" feature.

The Tivo contract expires in 2007 anyway. I doubt there'll be a MPEG-4 D* HD Tivo. Comcast may keep Tivo in business, though. If Tivo went under, how functional would all those Tivos be? Just lose EPG? They may be an acquisition target even more, after the NDS hits the streets.


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## lovswr (Jan 13, 2004)

Ok, so where is the R15


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

ANyone with 2 brain cells knows that in these times, the customer is rarely right. Companies are finally wising up and telling the worst problem customers to go away. A day I've been wating for for years...How often have you been in a retail store and some customer is ranting his fool head off at teh CS desk and you know he's dead in the wrong?


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

This seems very much like the DishPlayer and Echostar. DishPlayer eventually died...a very slow, painful death.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

navychop said:


> There have been rumors before that D* would put features in their NDS units that are unavailable on Tivo, to "encourage" the "right" purchase decision. I assume such would be more than the "VOD" feature.
> 
> The Tivo contract expires in 2007 anyway. I doubt there'll be a MPEG-4 D* HD Tivo. Comcast may keep Tivo in business, though. If Tivo went under, how functional would all those Tivos be? Just lose EPG? They may be an acquisition target even more, after the NDS hits the streets.


Just lose the EPG, WHAT?? along with almost all of its fucntionality that Tivo users Love and need.

I saw this coming, TIVO is in HUGE trouble especially it DirecTV requires a Change out with the mitgration to MPEG4 once that happens TIVO will LOOSE 60 percent of their revenue base, their screwed.

John


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## lvkewlkid (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote: DishPlayer eventually died...a very slow, painful death.

Reply: What do you mean? DishPlayer didnt die. My receiver is a DishPlayer-DVR 625.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

lvkewlkid said:


> Quote: DishPlayer eventually died...a very slow, painful death.
> 
> Reply: What do you mean? DishPlayer didnt die. My receiver is a DishPlayer-DVR 625.


Lvkewlkid,

Dishplayer was the original name of the joint project between Dish and Microsoft the first STB with DVR features. Both companies supplied some of the software for the units (Model #'s 7100 and 7200).

Neither company was really in synch with the other and the units had all kinds of software trouble. Microsoft never really saw the revenue it wanted from the Dishplayer DVR fee. All original Dishplayers were supposed to carry a fairly expensive DVR fee. The units also had WebTV built-in as well.

The Project was ended and no more units were produced. Dish embarked on a different path producing their own DVR's WITHOUT Microsofts help or software or the Dishplayer brand name. Two or Three Years later Dish brought back the Dishplayer name for all subsequent Dish DVR's.

That is very strange especially since the original Dishplayer had major software problems and carried a negative connotation. Dish should have come up with a different name to avoid the confusion.

John


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## UnnDunn (Oct 27, 2002)

djlong said:


> So, in effect, D* is now saying "We don't care about quality and to <bleep> with what our most loyal customers want"
> 
> SO now I have to choose between a company that makes me wait 3 weeks for a repair date (E*) or a company that is actively telling me they don't want my business (because I want an HD satellite receiver with TiVo software).
> 
> ...


Seems to me like you're prematurely writing off NDS' software. I'm not suggesting that NDS' software will be better or worse than TiVo, merely that we haven't seen enough of it yet to make blanket judgement calls like this.

The best thing we have to go on is the Sky+ software package available in the UK and built by NDS and OpenTV. That package doesn't look _too_ bad, though it doesn't seem to do things like suggestions.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I'm going to reserve judgement until I see a box on my TV.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

JohnL said:


> Just lose the EPG, WHAT?? along with almost all of its fucntionality that Tivo users Love and need.
> 
> I saw this coming, TIVO is in HUGE trouble especially it DirecTV requires a Change out with the mitgration to MPEG4 once that happens TIVO will LOOSE 60 percent of their revenue base, their screwed.
> 
> John


You seem to forget that Comcast and several other cable companies just signed a deal with TIVO to port their software to Motorola DCT and Scientific Atlanta cable boxes.

That is going to be a huge boom in business for TIVO as well as fresh partnerships to grow from. It kind of helps to have the nation's largest pay tv provider on board with you.


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## JohnTivo (Jul 27, 2004)

JohnL said:


> I saw this coming, TIVO is in HUGE trouble especially it DirecTV requires a Change out with the mitgration to MPEG4 once that happens TIVO will LOOSE 60 percent of their revenue base, their screwed.
> 
> John


60% of their revenue does not come from DirecTV. Based on their last 10-Q statment, about 20% of their monthly revenue comes from DirecTV. That revenue should be able to be made up as they begin adding comcast subs and (if released) users migrate from DirecTV to their cablecard Tivo box.


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## Paradox-sj (Dec 15, 2004)

Have you seen the fianicals of the comast/tivo deal? Tivo bent over and grabed there ankles on this one as they new it was their ONLY hope of survival...It will keep them in business (and at the very least that is what we want) but it is not bottom line friendly sad to say.


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## JohnTivo (Jul 27, 2004)

I wasn't aware terms of the deal were released. TIVO's 8-K release only stated that Comcast would pay TIVO for engineering services/development and per subscriber. Tivo is only making $1.19 per sub on the DirecTV deal...


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

AFAIK, Comcast is the ONLY cableco to have signed up Tivo. There is a lot of resistance in that market to Tivo- they've been trying to penetrate it for years.

I believe about 60% of Tivos are used w/D*. If these become unusable with D* over the next 2-3 years, surely Tivo loses revenue. Those monthly Tivo subscription fees? 

Can someone explain what functionality today's Tivo boxes will have after MPEG-4 hits? OTA? But only analog, not digital? Using Tivo to control a cable box is not going to be popular- it's only simple for us. The average guy on the street doesn't want to fool with it. Witness how few Tivos are used to control E* boxes.


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## UnnDunn (Oct 27, 2002)

Remember, TiVo is also developing CableCARD ready boxes that will work on any digital cable system in the US. In 2007, CableCARD will be an FCC-mandated, compulsory standard. So i don't think TiVo has anything to worry about. The Comcast deal will carry them until the point where they can stand on their own two feet.


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## UnnDunn (Oct 27, 2002)

navychop said:


> Can someone explain what functionality today's Tivo boxes will have after MPEG-4 hits? OTA? But only analog, not digital? Using Tivo to control a cable box is not going to be popular- it's only simple for us. The average guy on the street doesn't want to fool with it. Witness how few Tivos are used to control E* boxes.


DirecTiVo boxes will still work with digital OTA, as that'll remain MPEG2. This assumes DirecTV and/or TiVo don't simply shut off the boxes. DirecTiVo boxes have no analog tuners.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

At CES, DirecTV said that their future DVR's would not replace HD TIVO's but rather be in addition to them. They said in the future you will have choices as to what brand DVR for HDTV you may use since D* plans to license several manufacturers. They said TIVO would be welcome to offer an MP4 version as well when the time comes. The only difference I see is that D* will no longer offer the TIVO brand as an exclusive. I read nowhere that DirecTV will stop supporting HDTIVO. However, NDS may have certain features that others won't. Does this sound familiar? Microsoft applications division getting features that others like Word Perfect didn't have and the government stepped in and put an end to that with charging monopolistic practices.

One thing the reps at D* told me was that with many DVR makers offering licensed D* products, some may charge the DVR fee aka TIVO license fee while others may not. 

I, too, will reserve judgenment until I see what the NDS brand offers and how well it works. I'm no TIVO head but I do like just about everything about my HR10-250. Unlike my PVR921, the HDTIVO works and doesn't let me know how difficult it is for it to work.


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> At CES, DirecTV said that their future DVR's would not replace HD TIVO's but rather be in addition to them. They said in the future you will have choices as to what brand DVR for HDTV you may use since D* plans to license several manufacturers. They said TIVO would be welcome to offer an MP4 version as well when the time comes. The only difference I see is that D* will no longer offer the TIVO brand as an exclusive. I read nowhere that DirecTV will stop supporting HDTIVO. However, NDS may have certain features that others won't. Does this sound familiar? Microsoft applications division getting features that others like Word Perfect didn't have and the government stepped in and put an end to that with charging monopolistic practices.
> 
> One thing the reps at D* told me was that with many DVR makers offering licensed D* products, some may charge the DVR fee aka TIVO license fee while others may not.
> 
> I, too, will reserve judgenment until I see what the NDS brand offers and how well it works. I'm no TIVO head but I do like just about everything about my HR10-250. Unlike my PVR921, the HDTIVO works and doesn't let me know how difficult it is for it to work.


Don I couldn't have said that better myself. Well said sir. :grin:


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## bigdwoof (Jan 3, 2005)

When the cable companies start offering TIVO, will a phone line still be a requirement?


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

bigdwoof said:


> When the cable companies start offering TIVO, will a phone line still be a requirement?


Woof,

Probably NOT as Cable is a two way system. Cable Receivers can send data back upstream to the Cable headend, where as DBS is a one way system and Can't send data back over the satellite stream.

John


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## UnnDunn (Oct 27, 2002)

bigdwoof said:


> When the cable companies start offering TIVO, will a phone line still be a requirement?


 The proprietary Comcast-branded TiVo units will not need a phone line.

The CableCARD TiVos will most likely need some sort of upstream connection. Probably Broadband Internet based. CableCARD is a one-way protocol at this time.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

If indeed TiVO is licensing tech to Scientific-Atlanta, that would be a good thing. Time Warner uses S-A set top boxes, and I wish I had TiVO features like Season Pass Manager on my S-A HD DVR. For analog channels, my Series 2 TiVO gets quite a workout.


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## Gary Whitaker (Aug 6, 2005)

D* realizes that they are not growing a significant number of new Tivo subscribers. The #1 reason that most potential subscribers turn down free or rebated Tivo enabled DVR's is when CS tells the subscriber there is an additional $4.99 mo Tivo service charge. #2, slow Tivo EPG compared to D*'s Advanced EPG non-DVR receivers. #3 confusion on who to contact for support. #4, lack of UHF remote. #5, no on screen caller id.

NDS will give D* a competitive advantage. Lower hardware cost, reduced mo service fee to subscribers, the ability to offer features that Tivo dragged their feet on, On-demand PPV, Interactive services, and the reliability that Sky subscribers have become accustom to. NDS is not just now discovering what a DVR should be, unlike E*. Granted, there will be some popular Tivo patent features missing, but if you have experienced NDS on Sky, you want miss them that much.


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

Gary Whitaker said:


> D* realizes that they are not growing a significant number of new Tivo subscribers. The #1 reason that most potential subscribers turn down free or rebated Tivo enabled DVR's is when CS tells the subscriber there is an additional $4.99 mo Tivo service charge. #2, slow Tivo EPG compared to D*'s Advanced EPG non-DVR receivers. #3 confusion on who to contact for support. #4, lack of UHF remote. #5, no on screen caller id.
> 
> NDS will give D* a competitive advantage. Lower hardware cost, reduced mo service fee to subscribers, the ability to offer features that Tivo dragged their feet on, On-demand PPV, Interactive services, and the reliability that Sky subscribers have become accustom to. NDS is not just now discovering what a DVR should be, unlike E*. Granted, there will be some popular Tivo patent features missing, but if you have experienced NDS on Sky, you want miss them that much.


I agree with most of what you said, but I very seriously doubt you'll see lower pvr fees. D* will charge them b/c they can and it's commonly regarded as a now accepted practice (unfortunately). E* did hold out for a while but even charlie got on the bandwagon. Still I am curious to see how the NDS reciever plays out. If the quality is not up to par with TIVO, then I see D* making nice again with TIVO. I just wish E* had a similar counter balance in their equipment portfolio (in my opinion competition is always good especially with equipment makers).


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## Gary Whitaker (Aug 6, 2005)

Well, Rupert was once quoted at eliminating DVR fees, but I expect a balance some where in between $2.99, and could only hope for fee less DVR's. If it is a #1 complaint amoung subs, then this will deminish Rupert's claim to have a DVR in every home by Xmas 2005. Then there are HD Tivo owners wondering what is going to happen to them after MPEG 4 deployment.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I have no problem with DVR fees and I am more then willing to pay a service fee on TiVos. The people at TiVo Inc don't work for free, they produce an awesome product/service, and they deserve my money.


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## Gary Whitaker (Aug 6, 2005)

Are you willing to standby Tivo even if you can no longer add new DBS HD channels or are even willing to keep Tivo if requires a switch to digital cable? There is allot at stake here and D* has done as much as they can to consession with Tivo prior to announcement. I have dealt with the Tivo folk, and they still think it's 2000 in the bubble boom, but so is their product.

That is not to say that Tivo was not a wonderful product when first debuted in comparison to the first color TV. Reality is that their product has not been feature enhanced in the last 4 years and subscribers are now expecting more. So what is a sub paying for? Worthy of it's departure to cable...

In 2000 we where use to;


Slow EPG

No Caller ID

No UHF remote

$5 Tivo service fee (on top of $5 mirror fee)

In 2005 we demand Fast EPG, CID, and UHF remotes, plus;


No Tivo Fee

On Demand PPV

Interactive Services

Tivo has become the AOL for the masses.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

ocnier:

You might want to take a look at the E* 942 HD DVR, since you commented on an equipment counterbalance. This DVR is faster than Tivo, some prefer it's interface, and it has additional features. And it's reliable. E* has finally put out a top notch DVR similar to Tivo. I have 721 and 508 DVRs and am happy with them, but acknowledge their lack of name based recording has held them back. The 942 has NBR and other features and is highly rated.


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## bwarning (Aug 29, 2004)

They are not eliminating or reducing the dvr fee, in fact they just upped it a dollar to $5.99 a month for new customers.


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

navychop said:


> ocnier:
> 
> You might want to take a look at the E* 942 HD DVR, since you commented on an equipment counterbalance. This DVR is faster than Tivo, some prefer it's interface, and it has additional features. And it's reliable. E* has finally put out a top notch DVR similar to Tivo. I have 721 and 508 DVRs and am happy with them, but acknowledge their lack of name based recording has held them back. The 942 has NBR and other features and is highly rated.


The 942 is a very solid unit (which up to this point is unusual for E*), however, it wasn't up to par for me b/c of two HD related issues with it. The first is lack of network HD beyond CBS b/c I live in the DFW metroplex which means I get all the network affliates through my dish as well as my antenna (yes, I know they have voom but it's icing and not the cake even though the icing is very appealing). The second issue is the gaping hole in total unit functionality by not providing 2 OTA tuners (a deficit that could be forgiven if the first issue wasn't there to begin with). If E* ever gets its sh*t together with national feeds or had they simply added the extral tuner then I would rate the 942 higher in terms of value overall. As for counter balance, I think you missed my point. D* essentially has had many different equipment makers throughout their history which added IMO to the overall quality of equipment in terms of development. E* has no similar situation. I will say that I think E* is very close to finally getting it right, but only time will tell.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I think another problem tivo has is a lack of an HD Tivo, they are completly dependent on directv to sell the hd tivo. 

My sister has a standalone tivo and the phone support was awful,each call had nearly an hour on hold to get someone who didn't know anything. It took hours on hold over 3 days to fix her season passes not working.

Having used MythTV, Dish 508 and a tivo the tivo only does one thing I haven't seen anywhere else and that is suggestions. To me mythtv out performs it in every other way. Another tivo problem is its way to slow, the guide is slow,menus are slow and changing the priority on a season pass takes minutes. These things run linux, don't they know linux supports multitasking?


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