# R15-300 Copy Protect Problem



## lvsunz (Jan 20, 2007)

I upload selected programs from my R15 HD to a standalone DVD burner (I mainly use DVD+R media). I do this so my family can watch movies, etc. when we have time or even during the summer - in the meantime I keep my HD from filling up. 106c software was downloaded to my HD early AM on Jan. 17. Since then I can't burn anything from my HD - I get a message 'Copy Protect' displayed on my burner. I can burn from VCR tapes or from TV but not from my HD. Never any announcement or communication from DTV about this - so I'm thinking it's a 'bug' in 106c SW. Have spoken to several DTV Protection Plan supervisors and they claim they don't know anything but will look into it. 

I would think many unsuspecting users will be affected. If this was deliberate this seems like the basis for a class action lawsuit. Would appreciate feedback. 
Thank you.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

We may think we should be able to burn program content to DVDs. But, legally, the content owner decides. And, they tend not to agree with our notions of "fair use." So, they do stuff like insisting the manufacturers of digital video devices set and observe "copy protection" flags that prevent duplication of content.

I suspect this is not a bug. I suspect that the ability to burn the DVDs was a bug that's now been fixed.

I wish it were otherwise, but I don't think a lawsuit of any kind would last more than five seconds. We don't own the rights to the content. OTOH, I am not a lawyer. If I were, I could afford professional digital video gear, rather than consumer gear, and could just push a button disabling copy protection.

Cheers,

P.S. I have a -300 with 106C. I was just now able to initiate DVD burn of a first-run episode of a series recorded earlier this evening. Perhaps the CP affects only specific programs, such as PPV.

OTOH, after I initiated the burn, I couldn't start the play of the program I wanted to burn: the time bar would not advance. I trick-jumped to the end, exited, and restarted the play and everything went okay. This just-out-of-the-box, freshly-updated-to-the-current-software-version unit, which I've pampered with reformats and RBRs, is nevertheless as quirky as can be. In expressing myself this way, I'm using the gentlest possible language. An accurate expression of my feelings would be both too long and too crude for a public forum.

Cheers,


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

lvsunz said:


> I upload selected programs from my R15 HD to a standalone DVD burner (I mainly use DVD+R media). I do this so my family can watch movies, etc. when we have time or even during the summer - in the meantime I keep my HD from filling up. 106c software was downloaded to my HD early AM on Jan. 17. Since then I can't burn anything from my HD - I get a message 'Copy Protect' displayed on my burner. I can burn from VCR tapes or from TV but not from my HD. Never any announcement or communication from DTV about this - so I'm thinking it's a 'bug' in 106c SW. Have spoken to several DTV Protection Plan supervisors and they claim they don't know anything but will look into it.
> 
> I would think many unsuspecting users will be affected. If this was deliberate this seems like the basis for a class action lawsuit. Would appreciate feedback.
> Thank you.


I have seen that ever since I got my -500 in August. Appears to be real copy protection embedded in the programming. PPV and Premium movies seem to all have it. In theory, you could pass the signal through a PC Video capture box first and that would strip the security allowing it to record. At least in theory...


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> P.S. I have a -300 with 106C. I was just now able to initiate DVD burn of a first-run episode of a series recorded earlier this evening. Perhaps the CP affects only specific programs, such as PPV.


It's been a couple weeks, but I've burned a PPV directly to my DVD RW without any problems, and I have a 300.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I have copied probably 200 movies to DVD from my 500 in the last three months with no problems.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

paulman and cbeckner, what kind of DVD burners are you using, PC Based or standalone? I have a Sony stand alone that will not burn any CP content.


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> paulman and cbeckner, what kind of DVD burners are you using, PC Based or standalone? I have a Sony stand alone that will not burn any CP content.


Mine is a standalone Magnavox MSR90DX multi format.


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

R15-500 with 10FA. Just dumped "You me and Dupree" PPV to Lite-on (I used DVD+RW media if it make any difference). No CP problems. I used to have a RCA burner 2-3 years ago that all the sudden decided to show CP message even on some of the regular TV shows. I replaced it with Philips and problem went away. 
Lite-on that I used for this recording I just recently bought from Costco for under $100.
(All burners I mentioned are stand alone DVDR).


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## lvsunz (Jan 20, 2007)

samo,

Would appreciation some clarification:

1. When was your current 10FA downloaded?

2. Re RCA burner: are you saying the burner created the CP, not the DTV software?

3. Did you switch from Philips to Lite-on because the Philips was giving you problems?

I have a Magnavox (Philips) DVD burner which I've been using to burn from my HD for years. Since the latest software download (106c, 300), I can still burn from TV and VCR but not from my HD. 

Thanks for your feedback.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

TVs and VCRs are generally non-digital (analog) devices. DVRs and HDs are digital devices. CP is a digital technology. Therefore, CP problems are not apt to occur with a TV or VCR (due to the "analog gap"). They are, on the other hand, likely to occur with a DVR or HD.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> TVs and VCRs are generally non-digital (analog) devices. DVRs and HDs are digital devices. CP is a digital technology. Therefore, CP problems are not apt to occur with a TV or VCR (due to the "analog gap"). They are, on the other hand, likely to occur with a DVR or HD.


It is present in some VHS formats too. I tried to copy 'Titanic' from a production VHS on my SonyDVDR (It is a DVR / VHS combo) and it was 'copy-protected' as well.
My guess is that some models of DVD burners support the CP and some do not.

My Sony is an RDR-VX515, in the manual it lists three type of copy protect signals Copy-Free, Copy-Once and Copy-Never.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Yes, I'm oversimplifying a bit. That's the reason for the weasel words  "apt" and "likely." More precisely, athough VCRs use an analog recording medium, some modern VHS media and VCRs observe CP flags.

Cheers,


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I am using an el-cheapo Magnavox stand-alone DVD recorder.
I apologize, I just noticed the thread is about the R15-300, but it is my R15-500 that I am using for the copying. I have one of each and forgot which was which.

I am using S-video to go into the DVD recorder, if that makes any difference.


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