# Directv, Give Us A Flag So We Can Refuse A New Nr!



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I would like to see DIRECTV gives us a Download Flag where we can set it to No to Refuse a New NR Download until we think it will work okay for us.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

No way - you'd have folks running the HR* equal of Windows 3.1


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## idigg (May 8, 2008)

It's easier for them (DirecTV programmers) to have all the receivers on the same software base.


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

It would be too difficult for D* to support multiple versions of software on receivers. Some people will never update or complain that they never got an update to fix a problem.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

idigg said:


> It's easier for them (DirecTV programmers) to have all the receivers on the same software base.


It would be nearly impossible to support (such as it is ) multiple firmware bases. I agree with your post, but think it understates how difficult it would be to make any progress at all helping people with multiple bases.

While it might seem like a good idea on the surface, it is a very bad idea in practice....and before someone states the obvious, Microsoft is not a comparable situation in terms of resources any many other things.

How it is being done now, with internal alpha/beta, public CE and then pushed National Releases is a very good system that has served us well.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

This is simply not going to happen.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, I have it on one of my HR10-250s and I didn't want to Upgrade to the 6.3.e software so I kept it enabled and I never had all of the AWFUL Problems that 6.3.e posed which drove everybody crazy except the few of us that had PTVNET software with the FLAG turned on so it wouldn't accept a download because it thought it had already done it because of the flag.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, I have it on one of my HR10-250s and I didn't want to Upgrade to the 6.3.e software so I kept it enabled and I never had all of the AWFUL Problems that 6.3.e posed which drove everybody crazy except the few of us that had PTVNET software with the FLAG turned on so it wouldn't accept a download because it thought it had already done it because of the flag.


1. How do you know you would have even had a problem?
2. If people refuse an update based on a few negative reports, how is anyone supposed to know how widespread it is and try to fix it?
3. I thought Tivo was perfect.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

This keeps croping up and the answer is the same *everytime*. :grin:

It is simply not going to happen. 

Mike


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## webby_s (Jan 11, 2008)

I agree with *poppo*

How do you know you would have a problem. This release is actually a really good release. Try it out, then complain (or praise, I have)!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Perhaps participate in the CE program and test the upcoming NR build and report if you have problems. Then DirecTV can fix before it goes NR.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Chances are Slim and None, and Slim just left.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

For those that would like to hold off on updates, there is a way to do this... but it's not recommended....



Spoiler



Disconnect the sat feeds


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## stephenC (Jul 18, 2007)

richierich said:


> Well, I have it on one of my HR10-250s and I didn't want to Upgrade to the 6.3.e software so I kept it enabled and I never had all of the AWFUL Problems that 6.3.e posed which drove everybody crazy except the few of us that had PTVNET software with the FLAG turned on so it wouldn't accept a download because it thought it had already done it because of the flag.


Ah, this explains it. DirecTV is what I consider closed source. The TiVo platform was hackable. Not really open source but a hybrid. Now, having said that if you decide to hack your HR2x box software and implement a download flag you may be a hero to some. Good luck.


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## bhelton71 (Mar 8, 2007)

Ok - I'm playing the home edition of this thread

Lets just say that the proverbial lake of fire froze over and for some reason such a flag was put in. I don't think I personally know enough to make the decision whether to apply the software or not. And while I believe there are people on the forum who could make that kind of decision in an educated manner - I suspect they are a minority.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

stephenC said:


> Ah, this explains it. DirecTV is what I consider closed source. The TiVo platform was hackable. Not really open source but a hybrid. Now, having said that if you decide to hack your HR2x box software and implement a download flag you may be a hero to some. Good luck.


To be 100% crystal clear, this forum does not support hacking DIRECTV receivers. Period.

This is also not the right thread to be discussing TiVo receivers.

And, again, to be as clear as I know how to be... there is not going to be any facility for refusing a national release short of disconnecting your receiver. Do not pin your hopes on this, because you will be disappointed.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

bhelton71 said:


> Ok - I'm playing the home edition of this thread
> 
> Lets just say that the proverbial lake of fire froze over and for some reason such a flag was put in. I don't think I personally know enough to make the decision whether to apply the software or not. And while I believe there are people on the forum who could make that kind of decision in an educated manner - I suspect they are a minority.


I'd say a very very small minority.

And IMO, it would most likely cause as many issues as it prevents with people running old releases that have bugs which have been fixed in subsequent releases, but they are stuck "behind" because they forgot the flag was on...


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> No way - you'd have folks running the HR* equal of Windows 3.1


Or you'd have folks running Windows XP instead of Vista...


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

The vast majority of users would have no idea what 'the flag' would do!!

I'm not sure why you're anticipating problems or even if you could flag it, how you would know when it's 'safe' to upgrade!


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

The flag could easily be made so difficult to access that there'd be no chance Grandma could get to it. 

But the bottom line is, there's no money in it for D*.


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

dennisj00 said:


> The vast majority of users would have no idea what 'the flag' would do!!
> 
> I'm not sure why you're anticipating problems or even if you could flag it, how you would know when it's 'safe' to upgrade!


I do think that another tier could be added to the rollouts. Currently it seems to be sort of regional rollout. You could easily add a flag skip if during these rollouts, however be overridden to force it at the end. It sometimes takes a month or mor (at least it seems it when you are in New England) for the rollouts to complete, so obviously supporting multiple versions for a short duration is OK. So a simplified schedule could be

West -> South -> North -> East -> EVERYONE who said to skip.

The fact that they do not push all at once seems to imply they anticipate problems and don't want to be flooded. This would still allow plenty of data to be collected while rolling out and time to fix any problems. While reducing the headache for those that don't want them should they occur.

Even as little effort as this is I'm not sure if its worth it. Personally being where I am and always seeming to be the last customer to get an update I say the sooner the better.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

dennisj00 said:


> The vast majority of users would have no idea what 'the flag' would do!!
> 
> I'm not sure why you're anticipating problems or even if you could flag it, how you would know when it's 'safe' to upgrade!


The vast majority of Directv's user have no idea about many things we can do such as commands as AALL, CCHAN, Networking, etc.

I do have that Flag activated on my HR10-250 and I didn't get the dreaded 6.3.e software and they struggled for months with that release. Then when it got better I had the chance to change the flag but I really don't use that HR10-250 except for backup purposes so I left it there and don't have 2 or 3 features that would be nice to have such as Folders, etc.

If the rolllout seems to be going okay by monitoring this forum and the complaints about it then you could go ahead and deactivate the flag and receive the software. Just a thought. Everything first begins with an IDEA!!!


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Keep in mind that software updates are not only changing the user interface, but they may may be necessary to make the receiver function properly with updated guide data or "content protection" measures. Having the ability not to accept an upgrade might mean your receiver quits working. In fact, this is sort of what happened some weeks ago when a NR was pushed in the middle of the day. It is speculated that changes to the data stream proved to be incompatible with the current software, so a software update had to be pushed.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, then they shouldn't release these National Releases until they are fully tested and work properly. 

I am going to do more CE Testing myself now that I have time. I tested the last one and it totally screwed up my HR21-700 connected to a AM21. I had to back it out or overlay it with the current NR.

I'm afraid that this new Release may put me back where I was and that was with a SLOOOOWWWW Guide and PlayList and Delete times, etc.

And Yes, I reported this Problem as did many other people and I think it was somehow related to the attachment of the AM21 because I other HR21-700 did not experience these problems.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

You think its though getting something fixed now when people are the same national release.. talk about how fun it would be when you could have people with any one of 10 IRDs running any one of 10 or more releases. The computer OS is a good analogy... you'd still have people running Win 3.1 when the post-Vista OS (my mind is blank right now on its name) comes out.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, I know alot of people who are waiting to see how VISTA shakes out before they convert over to it and alot has to do with the compatability of VISTA with other software which has caused major problems.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> This keeps croping up and the answer is the same *everytime*. :grin:
> 
> It is simply not going to happen.


And "they" said a new deal with TiVo was never going to happen also.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Instead of going throug the same arguments all over again, everyone just read this thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=133551&highlight=Automatic+Update


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> And "they" said a new deal with TiVo was never going to happen also.


Are you still holding your breath for the results of that new deal? I'll offer the (virtual) drink of your choice if it happens in 2009 at all. Heck, I'll even give you one now just because. :goodjob: 

Now, that said, I just don't see Directv allowing people to arbitrarily cut their boxes (the vast majority of which are leased rather than owned) out of the current software release cycles. It's their service and as customers, we have to do all that we can to make it work the best for the most people including not interfering with steps Directv takes to provide functionality to our boxes. It's not like Directv is out to intentionally piss people off.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Gosh, didn't know there had already been one or two threads about this!!!

I know it ain't gonna happen anymore than DLB is but it's fun to speculate. 

Just get tired of software that causes lots of problems as if it has been rushed into production ahead of its time. This "771 Searching for..." is getting old and I don't see a fix unless it's in this 0X02AF NR!!!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> And "they" said a new deal with TiVo was never going to happen also.





LameLefty said:


> Are you still holding your breath for the results of that new deal? I'll offer the (virtual) drink of your choice if it happens in 2009 at all. Heck, I'll even give you one now just because. :goodjob:
> 
> Now, that said, I just don't see Directv allowing people to arbitrarily cut their boxes (the vast majority of which are leased rather than owned) out of the current software release cycles. It's their service and as customers, we have to do all that we can to make it work the best for the most people including not interfering with steps Directv takes to provide functionality to our boxes. It's not like Directv is out to intentionally piss people off.


Everyone say it with me...

Please take discussion of any future projected TiVo products to the TiVo press release thread.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

richierich said:


> Just get tired of software that causes lots of problems as if it has been rushed into production ahead of its time. This "771 Searching for..." is getting old and I don't see a fix unless it's in this 0X02AF NR!!!


Did it ever occur to you that you may have bad hardware? When I had a 771 issue it turned out to be a flakey BBC. I just don't see that many reports of 771 problems these days.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> This is simply not going to happen.


Much classier avatar!

Rich


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Everyone say it with me...
> 
> Please take discussion of any future projected TiVo products to the TiVo press release thread.


But it wouldn't have made any sense* there*. :lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

poppo said:


> 1. How do you know you would have even had a problem?


Obviously you never had that update. Everyone had problems.



> 2. If people refuse an update based on a few negative reports, how is anyone supposed to know how widespread it is and try to fix it?


Enough people would get it and in the case the OP is talking about there was an immediate uproar.



> 3. I thought Tivo was perfect.


Not even close. The HRs are much better. No hard drive problems such as TiVo was prone to. But you know that, right?

Rich


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## webby_s (Jan 11, 2008)

poppo said:


> Did it ever occur to you that you may have bad hardware? When I had a 771 issue it turned out to be a flakey BBC. I just don't see that many reports of 771 problems these days.


That is what I am wondering... has he gone through a check list to see if it isn't software. When I first got D* I had some issues but came to this board and they helped out a ton! Now I am happier then a little green frog in the rain.:hurah:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

webby_s said:


> I agree with *poppo*
> 
> How do you know you would have a problem. This release is actually a really good release. Try it out, then complain (or praise, I have)!


I have the release. It wiped out an eSATA, but aside from that, it works fine. What the OP is talking about is multi-eSATA families. I have six and everything is backed up so losing the one eSATA was a minor inconvenience, but had I known that the NR was coming, I would have unplugged the eSATAs and reloaded them individually. He has a point and a good point. Stuart usually tells us "about" when an NR can be expected, but a more precise date would help those of us with eSATAs.

If it is impossible to do, I can live with that. But D* schedules CEs, and tells those involved with the beta testing when to expect them, don't they? So...

Rich


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## blindraccoon (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm a *Professional* Software Engineer and I'm expected to, and do, support at a minumum of 6 variations of our software with versions dated up to a year and a half old. And I'm one guy. So I would expect DirecTV's engineering STAFF to handle it.

See my signature for my reasons for supporting the blocking of updates.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

rudeney said:


> Keep in mind that software updates are not only changing the user interface, but they may may be necessary to make the receiver function properly with updated guide data or "content protection" measures. Having the ability not to accept an upgrade might mean your receiver quits working. In fact, this is sort of what happened some weeks ago when a NR was pushed in the middle of the day. It is speculated that changes to the data stream proved to be incompatible with the current software, so a software update had to be pushed.


Bingo!

While some may wish for this to be true, it ain't gonna happen.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

While one can make an argument for flagging on a tivo, so that they won't loose something they have set up on it with a new update, you can't make that same statement about the Directv units. Directv's software roll outs are only headed in one direction and are meant to add or stabilize features. And there is NO way to know if you will have an issue with it until its actually on your unit, otherwise everyone would experience ALL the same problems...


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I have the release. It wiped out an eSATA, but aside from that, it works fine.


While I have seen some reports of eSATA loss, they seemd to be very few. And I wonder how many of those were from people stabbing the RBR or unlugging the power mid boot contibuting to the problem.

While not for everyone (lease blah ,blah ,blah) I just unplugged all of my internal drives and have never had a problem. Units run much cooler and don't have a HD spinning doing nothing. 3 HR20s each with 1TB eSATAs and never had a glitch.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

I don't see this happening...as DirecTV has to keep the fleet fresh and the same. NR's freshen the heard, so to speak.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

blindraccoon said:


> I'm a *Professional* Software Engineer and I'm expected to, and do, support at a minumum of 6 variations of our software with versions dated up to a year and a half old. And I'm one guy. So I would expect DirecTV's engineering STAFF to handle it.
> 
> See my signature for my reasons for supporting the blocking of updates.


+1. DirecTV's development and testing process is complete and utter crap. If they are going to force updates, then they need to make sure those updates are reliable. Honestly it cracks me up that folks pay money for DirecTV's products and by all indications the major method of testing is counting on a bunch of customers (who may or may not have any software development or testing experience) to test a CE. Couple that with comments like "aside from wiping out my hard drive it works great" and it's no wonder they continue to have problems with reliability. DirecTV's DVR's are so bad that their customer bases have begun to accept mediocrity as acceptable. It's a sad situation.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

This is not the place to discuss customer pre-testing or anything about the Cutting Edge.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

poppo said:


> While I have seen some reports of eSATA loss, they seemd to be very few. And I wonder how many of those were from people stabbing the RBR or unlugging the power mid boot contibuting to the problem.
> 
> While not for everyone (lease blah ,blah ,blah) I just unplugged all of my internal drives and have never had a problem. Units run much cooler and don't have a HD spinning doing nothing. 3 HR20s each with 1TB eSATAs and never had a glitch.


So because there are few reports of eSATA loss, that's acceptable? Or is it acceptable because it hasn't happened to you? How terribly convenient to, rather than investigate whether there is a problem with the software, to lay the blame at the feet of the customer.

Furthermore, since the updates are forced and the end user has no control over it, they should leave their eSATA unplugged "just in case". So the logic is "well if you don't have the eSATA plugged in, it can't possibly be wiped"? And that's a remotely acceptable answer? Come on...

If DirecTV supports using eSATA and they have problems with their upgrade wiping folks drives, then they need to TEST THE PRODUCT MORE THOROUGHLY.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> If DirecTV supports using eSATA and they have problems with their upgrade wiping folks drives, then they need to TEST THE PRODUCT MORE THOROUGHLY.


If I'm not mistaken, DirecTV does not officially support the use of eSATA... so it's kind of a "use at your own risk" anyway...


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

prospero63 said:


> So because there are few reports of eSATA loss, that's acceptable?


I don't use eSATA setups but so far as I know, that solution for expanded storage has NEVER been officially supported by Directv. If it was, I expect that they would market their own line of DVR Expander-type drives straight from their site for the less technically-inclined users. The fact that they don't, despite eSATA being enabled unofficially for quite some time, speaks volumes. The message it sends is: Use at your own risk.

That said, there are LOTS of users who've never had problems with eSATA setups, despite the literally thousands of possible combinations of drives, enclosures, power supplies, cables, etc.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Mr. Rocker and Mr. Lefty are correct. eSATA is not officially supported, and although there are a lot of combinations, Doug Brott has found very few that he feels good enough to recommend. 

To the original topic, these are set-top boxes. While they have all the complexity of computers, one thing that distinguishes them is that they are functionally closed; the hardware set is limited and the software is also intentionally limited to minimize support issues and allow for more rapid implementation of new technologies. 

For that reason, I see it as an extremely slender possibility that users will ever have the ability to revert to earlier firmware or refuse new firmware.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> To the original topic, these are set-top boxes. While they have all the complexity of computers, one thing that distinguishes them is that they are functionally closed; the hardware set is limited and the software is also intentionally limited to minimize support issues and allow for more rapid implementation of new technologies.
> 
> For that reason, I see it as an extremely slender possibility that users will ever have the ability to revert to earlier firmware or refuse new firmware.


Then there's the problem of databases and schedule formatting. You'd never, ever be able to change any of that if there were older software versions still out. It's one thing to make software backwards-compatible. Future-compatible is much harder.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

AirRocker said:


> If I'm not mistaken, DirecTV does not officially support the use of eSATA... so it's kind of a "use at your own risk" anyway...


If that's the case, IMO this is another example of problems with how they are planning their software and hardware support. By providing the ability to connect a drive, they are enabling this situation. It's just another bad business decision IMO. The should support something they enable, or they shouldn't enable it till they are ready to support it.

Back to the OP point though, like almost all software updates and update mechanisms I know of, DirecTV should allow the customer to decide when it's appropriate to apply the update. Further, their update process should automatically take into account when recordings are scheduled and NOT apply during those times.

With regards to "but they couldn't support so many versions" I disagree completely. First they are a 17 billion dollar company. The appear to have netted over 1 billion dollars last year. Invest some of that in R&D and support. Second, as part of their standard troubleshooting process they could certainly ask "what version are you running" and if it's not the latest or the problem appears to be fixed in a newer release say "you need to upgrade". It's really not that difficult.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

blindraccoon said:


> I'm a *Professional* Software Engineer and I'm expected to, and do, support at a minumum of 6 variations of our software with versions dated up to a year and a half old. And I'm one guy. So I would expect DirecTV's engineering STAFF to handle it.
> 
> See my signature for my reasons for supporting the blocking of updates.


An you propose D* update thousands of CSRs working at many call centers across the country (and outside it too) to support several releases on each model DVR? Doesn't make cost sense to me, nobody in their right mind would approve that new cost in these times.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I have always been curious why DIRECTV doesn't market their OWN LINE of DVR Expander-type drives as it seems they could make alot of money doing it and make their customer base happy at the same time or at least offer larger internal hard drives as an option. 

Then we wouldn't be tempted to open up the box and replace the internal drive which I would never do unless I owned the box.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> If that's the case, IMO this is another example of problems with how they are planning their software and hardware support. By providing the ability to connect a drive, they are enabling this situation. It's just another bad business decision IMO. The should support something they enable, or they shouldn't enable it till they are ready to support it.


I see where you're coming from, but the reality of it is, 98.9% of users will never use it... with a large part of that percentage not even knowing it's back there and/or knowing what it's used for.

I personally appreciate the fact that DirecTV has enabled it for our use if we so choose... and understand the risks associated with it.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

kcmurphy88 said:


> Then there's the problem of databases and schedule formatting. You'd never, ever be able to change any of that if there were older software versions still out. It's one thing to make software backwards-compatible. Future-compatible is much harder.


That's funny as I am running the 3.1.5f which is the version prior to 6.3.e which caused a ton of problems so I have always stayed there and my HR10-250 is running fine with no problems but it does lack Folders and a couple of other things that I would like but since I use it as a backup or to complement my HR20-700 I have just left it as is!!!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Mr. Rich, there will very likely come a time, very soon, when guide data changes to your old HR10 will make it unusable without an update. For more information, see the legacy receiver forum.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks Stuart as I didn't know that but I will probably be trading it in for the NEW DIRECTIVO when that unit comes out next year around October 2009. Hope it will work until then.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> If that's the case, IMO this is another example of problems with how they are planning their software and hardware support. By providing the ability to connect a drive, they are enabling this situation. It's just another bad business decision IMO. The should support something they enable, or they shouldn't enable it till they are ready to support it.


You car enables you to mow people down, it's surely not supported by the manufacturer but the ability is there. Your call.


> Back to the OP point though, like almost all software updates and update mechanisms I know of, DirecTV should allow the customer to decide when it's appropriate to apply the update.


And then we could have the support problems mentioned elsewhere in this thread. This is MS mentality, let the user chose the updates when they want it. Zombie Botnet anyone? Random lockups cause by bad 3rd party guide data? No the current model works for all but a very minor percentage and of that percentage a very small portion are likely to have a legit bug, another proportion are likely to have a bellyache for reasons of their own. I will grant you sometimes the timing could be better but it is TV after all and shouldn't be life ending if you miss a re-run recording of Coach.


> With regards to "but they couldn't support so many versions" I disagree completely. First they are a 17 billion dollar company. The appear to have netted over 1 billion dollars last year. Invest some of that in R&D and support. Second, as part of their standard troubleshooting process they could certainly ask "what version are you running" and if it's not the latest or the problem appears to be fixed in a newer release say "you need to upgrade". It's really not that difficult.


Most users cant hardly operate their remotes or cough up the receiver ID. New versions are by all appearances at a minimum a bug fix release and usually include new features. *There is NO valid reason to withhold a bug fix release. *On top of that a software update takes quite a bit of time to download so the service call would have to be closed(reps are supposed to handle each call in a time under 10 mins and depending on the department as low as 6) and then the customer would have to call back and wait through holds etc again NOT a good experience. Other than interrupting a recording or viewing nobody has provided a solid 100% of the time consistent reason that the updates shouldn't be forced as they are today.


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## stephenC (Jul 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Mr. Rocker and Mr. Lefty are correct. eSATA is not officially supported, and although there are a lot of combinations, Doug Brott has found very few that he feels good enough to recommend.
> 
> To the original topic, these are set-top boxes. While they have all the complexity of computers, one thing that distinguishes them is that they are functionally closed; the hardware set is limited and the software is also intentionally limited to minimize support issues and allow for more rapid implementation of new technologies.
> 
> For that reason, I see it as an extremely slender possibility that users will ever have the ability to revert to earlier firmware or refuse new firmware.


This is a good explanation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_appliance

Since these are based on Linux, you could also call them Linux appliances.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> For that reason, I see it as an extremely slender possibility that users will ever have the ability to revert to earlier firmware or refuse new firmware.


"So you're tellin' me there's a chance?..."


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

A VERY SLENDER CHANCE as in SLIM or NONE and SLIM JUST LEFT TOWN so you are left with NONE!!! :lol:


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)




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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Let me explain. 

I hesitate to give a 0% probability of anything, because of my limited understanding of the laws of probability and quantum mechanics. However, I feel comfortable saying that the chance of this happening is so low as to make it extremely, extremely unwise for you to pin your hopes upon it. 

In other words, it ain't happenin.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Let me explain.
> 
> I hesitate to give a 0% probability of anything, because of my limited understanding of the laws of probability and quantum mechanics. However, I feel comfortable saying that the chance of this happening is so low as to make it extremely, extremely unwise for you to pin your hopes upon it.
> 
> In other words, it ain't happenin.


Okay guys what part of this don't you understand!!!


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

AirRocker said:


>


I knew somebody would get it!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

poppo said:


> While I have seen some reports of eSATA loss, they seemd to be very few. And I wonder how many of those were from people stabbing the RBR or unlugging the power mid boot contibuting to the problem.
> 
> While not for everyone (lease blah ,blah ,blah) I just unplugged all of my internal drives and have never had a problem. Units run much cooler and don't have a HD spinning doing nothing. 3 HR20s each with 1TB eSATAs and never had a glitch.


First time an NR affected my eSATAs. Fortunately, it was my smallest one and was a minor inconvenience. But suppose one of my 2TB eSATAs was affected in this way? I'd feel much more secure if I had a reasonable time frame for an NR and could disconnect all my eSATAs each night and then download the NRs one at a time.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> +1. DirecTV's development and testing process is complete and utter crap. If they are going to force updates, then they need to make sure those updates are reliable. Honestly it cracks me up that folks pay money for DirecTV's products and by all indications the major method of testing is counting on a bunch of customers (who may or may not have any software development or testing experience) to test a CE.





> Couple that with comments like "aside from wiping out my hard drive it works great" and it's no wonder they continue to have problems with reliability.


You didn't think I was happy about losing the programs on that eSATA, did you?



> DirecTV's DVR's are so bad that their customer bases have begun to accept mediocrity as acceptable. It's a sad situation.


And yet I can find no provider that is better, can you? Please don't tell me FIOS, they can't even run a cell phone company properly.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> So because there are few reports of eSATA loss, that's acceptable? Or is it acceptable because it hasn't happened to you? How terribly convenient to, rather than investigate whether there is a problem with the software, to lay the blame at the feet of the customer.





> Furthermore, since the updates are forced and the end user has no control over it, theyn't have the eSATA plugged in, it can't possibly be wiped"? And that's a remotely acceptable answer? Come on...


At the moment, that's the best solution I can come up with. You have a better one?



> If DirecTV supports using eSATA and they have problems with their upgrade wiping folks drives, then they need to TEST THE PRODUCT MORE THOROUGHLY.


D* does NOT support the eSATA function. Never have.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

AirRocker said:


> I see where you're coming from, but the reality of it is, 98.9% of users will never use it... with a large part of that percentage not even knowing it's back there and/or knowing what it's used for.


Sadly, I think you are correct. Altho, I can't understand why so few people use eSATAs.



> I personally appreciate the fact that DirecTV has enabled it for our use if we so choose... and understand the risks associated with it.


I agree with that statement. I do have six eSATAs so if one is lost, my programming is not really adversely affected. Minor annoyance.

Rich


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## GBFAN (Nov 13, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Sadly, I think you are correct. Altho, I can't understand why so few people use eSATAs.
> Rich


I don't use one because I never watch anything live except for NFL games. Everything I want to watch I record. I would like a bigger hard drive but I really don't like the fact that if you use an eSATA it doesn't use the internal drive.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

rich584 said:


> D* does NOT support the eSATA function. Never have.
> 
> Rich


Then there's no problem putting in a "do not give me the latest software" flag. Make it a backdoor, and tell folks it's not supported. Right?  (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RCY said:


> Then there's no problem putting in a "do not give me the latest software" flag. Make it a backdoor, and tell folks it's not supported. Right?  (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


And then after a couple of weeks of monitoring this forum you could decide then if you want the release because there are not alot of problems and then you could change the flag which would prompt the NR download.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Sadly, I think you are correct. Altho, I can't understand why so few people use eSATAs.
> 
> I agree with that statement. I do have six eSATAs so if one is lost, my programming is not really adversely affected. Minor annoyance.
> 
> Rich


You have 6 eSATA's drives connected to a HR2x?
On the subject though, there is just no way to support multile versions of firmware like the OP wants. Its not just a D* issue either.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

This is a copy of a Post by a guy who lost all of his recordings and then by accident got them back by this procedure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I learned that I could not reset the receiver without losing everything on the external drive.

I experimented a great deal and this is what I came up with:

1) Do a graceful shutdown of the receiver.
2) Before you plug the power cord back in, turn off the external drive.
3) Plug the power cord in and let the receiver restart. When it is done you will have the contents of your internal drive available.
4) Do another graceful shutdown of your receiver.
5) Before you plug in the power cord into the receiver, turn on the external hard drive.
6) Plug in the power cord and let the receiver restart. When it is done you will have all of the contents of your external drive just as they were before the first restart.

This is a bit cumbersome, but I do not need to do a restart that often, but I know that sooner or later I will have to do one. I do not want to lose the contents of a 1tb hard drive and now I can record with confidence that I will find my recordings and settings after a restart.

I haven’t figured out why this happens yet. If you try a restart and leave your external drive connected, you will see the record light come on as it reformats your external drive. It can’t really be a reformat, because it happens too fast, but the contents of the drive are no longer available. It does not do that after a restart from the internal drive which is what should happen. It knows enough to see the data on the external drive and goes there. Maybe there is a timing issue?


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

I can't think of a single Tv provider that lets you do this. The Tivos are hackable to achieve this but that doesn't really count.

Comcast just pushes new software out to the motorola boxes and it doesn't let you opt out. Granted they didn't do too many updates but my experience with them was they could have used a lot more development occurring. Same is true of Dish, Att and Verizon as far as I know.

As far as the specific case of the ESata goes I can completely understand the current situation. What they did was a very simple thing to have it check for and just use the Esata instead of the internal if it was connected. Which is why it doesn't use the internal HD and is tied to that receiver etc. Obviously there are a lot of other things you'd like in an official feature and judging by the results of people trying to use it on these forums there is a lot more tweaking to get compatibility where it needs to be before it could be supported. I'm sure you are asking why enable it at all then? Simple because it allows those people who really want to use it and are willing to accept the risks and limitations the ability to do something important to them. Comcasts boxes with 160gb hds and no option to add additional storage to them are really a pretty sad excuse for an HD DVR. My HR21 has noticeably more storage space and has been pretty good for me. An HR22 or 23 would probably be more than I'd ever need but it is nice to know I could go even larger if I wanted. An unsupported option is better than no option.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

rahlquist said:


> An you propose D* update thousands of CSRs working at many call centers across the country (and outside it too) to support several releases on each model DVR? Doesn't make cost sense to me, nobody in their right mind would approve that new cost in these times.


Yes, I do. If due to their incredible short sightedness they have under-trained and unqualified CSRs, that's exactly what I propose. I'm not paid by DirecTV. I'm their customer, and I should be treated thusly. If they'd have done things right the first time, they wouldn't be in this situation. If it costs them to rectify, then it costs them to rectify. Every company that is interested in providing good customer service and maintaining the highest customer satisfaction would spend that money.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

prospero63 said:


> Yes, I do. If due to their incredible short sightedness they have under-trained and unqualified CSRs, that's exactly what I propose. If they'd have done things right the first time, they wouldn't be in this situation. If it costs them to rectify, then it costs them to rectify. Every company that is interested in providing good customer service and maintaining the highest customer satisfaction would spend that money.


Exactly!!! If Directv has tested the NR properly and adequately then I wouldn't have proposed this THREAD in the first place but I am concerned because I had problems in testing and I am worried that I will have those same problems in this FORCED NR!!!

In fact a poster on another forum just posed that his Caller ID no longer works which was one of the reported problems and guess what??? He just got the 0X02AF NR download. So it seems Directv did not monitor or fix that problem, did they?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hasan said:


> It would be nearly impossible to support (such as it is ) multiple firmware bases.


This doesn't seem to have dissuaded them from coming out with multiple disparate hardware configurations.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

idigg said:


> It's easier for them (DirecTV programmers) to have all the receivers on the same software base.


it also makes it easier for the CSR's as well.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

rahlquist said:


> You car enables you to mow people down, it's surely not supported by the manufacturer but the ability is there. Your call.


This is a logical fallacy (false dilemma) and has nothing to do with the topic or discussion. I'm not going to waste time on it.



> And then we could have the support problems mentioned elsewhere in this thread. This is MS mentality, let the user chose the updates when they want it. Zombie Botnet anyone?


This is another false dilemma.



> Random lockups cause by bad 3rd party guide data? No the current model works for all but a very minor percentage and of that percentage a very small portion are likely to have a legit bug, another proportion are likely to have a bellyache for reasons of their own. I will grant you sometimes the timing could be better but it is TV after all and shouldn't be life ending if you miss a re-run recording of Coach.


More DirecTV apologists and excuses. "It's just TV, it's not that important". People pay for a service. It doesn't matter if it's TV or whatever, people pay for it and as a result they rightly should have an expectation of quality service. They shouldn't accept striving for mediocrity in the form of "well, it works for most folks so no reason for us to try to improve anything".

And again, you shouldn't attempt to muddy the water by casting the negative "MS sucks" implications. The reality is that the majority of software and hardware vendors understand that it's not their role to dictate with absolute finality when patches and updates should be applied. They understand that they are a customer driven company, something that DirecTV fails to get.



> Most users cant hardly operate their remotes or cough up the receiver ID. New versions are by all appearances at a minimum a bug fix release and usually include new features. *There is NO valid reason to withhold a bug fix release.*


And now the "users are stupid, they need to be protected from themselves" argument. Once again, the person who has the receiver should be able to decide when and if they apply a patch. It's their equipment. They are the customer. DirecTV could certainly provide notifications that an update needs to be applied, could do like any number of software vendors do and give the user the option of applying the update now or waiting for X amount of time, etc. They choose to take the easy way out though.

And there are TONS of reasons to withold bug fixes, not the least of which is they aren't tested properly and they cause additional bugs and problems.



> On top of that a software update takes quite a bit of time to download so the service call would have to be closed(reps are supposed to handle each call in a time under 10 mins and depending on the department as low as 6) and then the customer would have to call back and wait through holds etc again NOT a good experience.


So because the CSR needs to close tickets in 10 minutes (according to you), DirecTV shouldn't do anything? I mean, god forbid it be an inconvenience to them when it can be an inconvenience to the paying customer. Here's a novel idea... DirecTV changes their policy to update it to reflect the potential issues, they don't close the tickets and I dunno, maybe they improve the customer experience by staffing appropriately to reduce the hold times...



> Other than interrupting a recording or viewing nobody has provided a solid 100% of the time consistent reason that the updates shouldn't be forced as they are today.


So other than the reasons folks have provided, no one has provided any other reasons? Give me a break. If you are going to dismiss the reasons provided, it doesn't matter if someone can point out a dozen reasons why, I've no doubt those will be dismissed as well. And as long as DirecTV's customers continue to not demand better quality and service, DirecTV will have no incentive to improve.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> Just get tired of software that causes lots of problems as if it has been rushed into production ahead of its time. This "771 Searching for..." is getting old and I don't see a fix unless it's in this 0X02AF NR!!!


The 2nd tuner giving you that message when only 1 tuner is hooked up issue? Yes, the fix is in 02AF.

Had you opt'd not to get the download you wouldn't have been able to fix your problem. You yourself just proved why downloads shouldn't be optional.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Originally Posted by idigg 
It's easier for them (DirecTV programmers) to have all the receivers on the same software base.

Well, all Receivers are not on the same software base because my HR20-700 is different in alot of aspects from my HR21-700 and when I first started noticing these differences I knew that (being a computer programmer myself) that there were some slight differences so they must have separate teams working on separate software for different DVRs which is similar but not an EXACT COPY or REPLICATION of that software for different platforms or DVRs.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Mr. Rocker and Mr. Lefty are correct. eSATA is not officially supported, and although there are a lot of combinations, Doug Brott has found very few that he feels good enough to recommend.
> 
> To the original topic, these are set-top boxes. While they have all the complexity of computers, one thing that distinguishes them is that they are functionally closed; the hardware set is limited and the software is also intentionally limited to minimize support issues and allow for more rapid implementation of new technologies.
> 
> For that reason, I see it as an extremely slender possibility that users will ever have the ability to revert to earlier firmware or refuse new firmware.


IMO that's a cop out on DirecTV part. I mean, Cisco is closed functionality, hardware based and runs subset functionality. Their software matrix is mind boggling. IMO it becomes a question of whether DirecTV is focused on providing the top quality product out there. I just don't think, at the moment, they are and I think these types of issues are a prime example of it. For whatever reason they are taking shortcuts and I think it's starting to bite them in the tail. They aren't the top rated in customer satisfaction SAT/Cable vendor anymore, and I think these kinds of situations are what has caused the disappointment. I know that they are no where near as stable and reliable as they were 8, or even 3, years ago.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

AirRocker said:


> I personally appreciate the fact that DirecTV has enabled it for our use if we so choose... and understand the risks associated with it.


I hear you, but it's an irresponsible decision to enable functionality that they know people we use and not provide full support.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> And yet I can find no provider that is better, can you? Please don't tell me FIOS, they can't even run a cell phone company properly.
> 
> Rich


That's like saying "hey guys, good job, we suck the least". That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement or that they shouldn't continue to try to achieve improvement. I don't want DirecTV to be the company that hangs that hat on being the least sucky. I want them to be the company that hangs their hat on being the best. They used to be that. They can be that again, but as customers we have to demand better.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> it also makes it easier for the CSR's as well.


The CSR's aren't the customers however. A company that has lost focus on customer service says "this is easier for us to support". A company that is customer service driven says "this is easier for our customers". DirecTV is doing too much of the prior and not enough of the latter.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> In fact a poster on another forum just posed that his Caller ID no longer works which was one of the reported problems and guess what??? He just got the 0X02AF NR download. So it seems Directv did not monitor or fix that problem, did they?


So you assume that it's 02AF's fault? It couldn't possibly be 1. an issue with his phone company. 2. An issue with his wiring. 3. Something completely temporary. In your mind it HAS to be the new software?

wow... I don't know how to respond to that except to say it's pretty closed minded of you to think that.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, all Receivers are not on the same software base because my HR20-700 is different in alot of aspects from my HR21-700 and when I first started noticing these differences I knew that (being a computer programmer myself) that there were some slight differences so they must have separate teams working on separate software for different DVRs which is similar but not an EXACT COPY or REPLICATION of that software for different platforms or DVRs.


The functionality between all receivers is identical and the software base is identical. The only places where the software differs at all between HR20-700, HR20-100, HR21, etc is in the actual drivers but the base is the same.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

prospero63 said:


> The CSR's aren't the customers however. A company that has lost focus on customer service says "this is easier for us to support". A company that is customer service driven says "this is easier for our customers". DirecTV is doing too much of the prior and not enough of the latter.


I disagree...

I work for a company that has a call center, yes in the US, and I can tell you now that when you have multiple software versions in the end it only costs the customer.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> So you assume that it's 02AF's fault? It couldn't possibly be 1. an issue with his phone company. 2. An issue with his wiring. 3. Something completely temporary. In your mind it HAS to be the new software?
> 
> wow... I don't know how to respond to that except to say it's pretty closed minded of you to think that.


Yes, because it can't possibly be a problem with DirecTV. Again, as long as DirecTV has customers that will look the other way with problems, they have no incentive to address them.

And Occams Razor says that if 1) nothing has changed with the phone company 2) nothing has changed with his wiring and 3) a new software update was pushed, the odds that the problem is 3 are higher than the odds of 1 or 2. Does that mean it can't be 1 or 2? Of course not, but troubleshooting 101 says you play the odds...


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> This is a logical fallacy (false dilemma) and has nothing to do with the topic or discussion. I'm not going to waste time on it.


 Has everything to do with it, you think because that port is there on the back that D* must support it and provide perfect functionality when in reality while it is turned on, its use is no more supported than using the USB port for an iPod charger.



> More DirecTV apologists and excuses. "It's just TV, it's not that important". People pay for a service. It doesn't matter if it's TV or whatever, people pay for it and as a result they rightly should have an expectation of quality service.


No apologies here my equipment works.



> And again, you shouldn't attempt to muddy the water by casting the negative "MS sucks" implications. The reality is that the majority of software and hardware vendors understand that it's not their role to dictate with absolute finality when patches and updates should be applied. They understand that they are a customer driven company, something that DirecTV fails to get.


I did take a shot at this mentality, but didn't say MS sucks.



> And now the "users are stupid, they need to be protected from themselves" argument. Once again, the person who has the receiver should be able to decide when and if they apply a patch. It's their equipment. They are the customer. DirecTV could certainly provide notifications that an update needs to be applied, could do like any number of software vendors do and give the user the option of applying the update now or waiting for X amount of time, etc. They choose to take the easy way out though.


Well at times users do not know what the issue is do they not? And no in 90% of all HRx cases it is not their hardware, it is the property of DirecTV. They are updating their equipment to keep it up to spec, regardless its part of how they do business and if you dont want the updates others have told you how you can avoid it.



> And there are TONS of reasons to withold bug fixes, not the least of which is they aren't tested properly and they cause additional bugs and problems.


Really? Again how many bad vs good? Every business has a cost, and enhancing the DVR's is bound to expose some hardware issues.



> So other than the reasons folks have provided, no one has provided any other reasons? Give me a break. If you are going to dismiss the reasons provided, it doesn't matter if someone can point out a dozen reasons why, I've no doubt those will be dismissed as well. And as long as DirecTV's customers continue to not demand better quality and service, DirecTV will have no incentive to improve.


What reasons? List them? Other than some lost functionality of esata?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> This is not the place to discuss customer pre-testing or anything about the Cutting Edge.


It seems appropriate to me to recognize the CE program as part of the overall "development and testing process". The details of individual CE tests are obviously verboten.

If the CE program isn't anything like what prospero63 suggests, then his references may be inappropriate.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

His CallerID has worked for over one year and then he got the NR last night and now it doesn't work and I would say that is not just a COINCIDENCE and I think the majority of reasonably minded people would AGREE with my assessment.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> I disagree...
> 
> I work for a company that has a call center, yes in the US, and I can tell you now that when you have multiple software versions in the end it only costs the customer.


Then frankly it's another poorly managed company. Also, folks have taken the statements made out of context and made arguments of extreme position.

There is no valid reason I can think of that DirecTV can't provide as part of their update process the ability for the user to decide when to apply it. I'm not, and have never proposed, that DirecTV support every version known to man. There is nothing wrong with something like a "There is a new software update. Do you want to apply it now or later? If later we will prompt again in X days. The update will be automatically applied after Y days". This isn't the technical impossibility or the "can't be supported" situation that folks are implying. The majority of software and hardware companies are able to make it work. There's no reason DirecTV can't.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> The functionality between all receivers is identical and the software base is identical. The only places where the software differs at all between HR20-700, HR20-100, HR21, etc is in the actual drivers but the base is the same.


Well, I can show you Menu Differences and other differences so if they are coming from identical code then there can not be differences in the Menu. But there are!!!


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Sadly, I think you are correct. Altho, I can't understand why so few people use eSATAs.


My guess would be because the feature is not marketed. I'm sure that if DirecTV ever decided to market (and support) this feature, then it would catch on quite well. I know plenty of people that are "running out of room".


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

There are alot of people who only know what is in the Manual and alot of people just glance at the Manual anyway so they would probably never even notice if there was a reference to it in there.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

rahlquist said:


> Has everything to do with it, you think because that port is there on the back that D* must support it and provide perfect functionality when in reality while it is turned on, its use is no more supported than using the USB port for an iPod charger.


No it doesn't. We aren't talking about cars or iPod chargers or anything else. It's an invalid comparison that relies on a compositional fallacy. By providing false dilemmas you shift the discussion from DirecTV to these other examples.



> No apologies here my equipment works.


Therefore no one else can possibly be having problems.



> I did take a shot at this mentality, but didn't say MS sucks.


The implication was clear. It's invalid. RedHat, Cisco, Apple, Nortel and virtually every other software vendor I can think of has a very similar policy. Either they are all wrong, or they are all onto something.



> Well at times users do not know what the issue is do they not? And no in 90% of all HRx cases it is not their hardware, it is the property of DirecTV. They are updating their equipment to keep it up to spec, regardless its part of how they do business and if you dont want the updates others have told you how you can avoid it.


1) So what if the users don't know something.
2) The customer is the customer. Whether they own or lease the equipment is irrelevant. You've latched onto ownership of the equipment instead of addressing why DirecTV can't provide the ability for their customers to choose when to apply the updates.



> Really? Again how many bad vs good? Every business has a cost, and enhancing the DVR's is bound to expose some hardware issues.


Yes, really. You made an absolute statement. I demonstrated that it's anything but absolute.



> What reasons? List them? Other than some lost functionality of esata?


So list reasons other than the reasons you don't want to hear (because it's certainly not fair for you to make a qualifying statement like "list everything except for XYZ"). Tell you what. You list all the reasons you think are invalid and I'll try to list ones you didn't think of.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, I can show you Menu Differences and other differences so if they are coming from identical code then there can not be differences in the Menu. But there are!!!


So let's see it .. give us some screen shots.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, I can show you Menu Differences and other differences so if they are coming from identical code then there can not be differences in the Menu. But there are!!!


Mr. Rich, please explain.

I've yet to see differences between the menus on different receivers running the same code. If you could post screen captures or at least an explanation, I'd appreciate it.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> Yes, because it can't possibly be a problem with DirecTV. Again, as long as DirecTV has customers that will look the other way with problems, they have no incentive to address them.
> 
> And Occams Razor says that if 1) nothing has changed with the phone company 2) nothing has changed with his wiring and 3) a new software update was pushed, the odds that the problem is 3 are higher than the odds of 1 or 2. Does that mean it can't be 1 or 2? Of course not, but troubleshooting 101 says you play the odds...





richierich said:


> His CallerID has worked for over one year and then he got the NR last night and now it doesn't work and I would say that is not just a COINCIDENCE and I think the majority of reasonably minded people would AGREE with my assessment.


Troubleshooting 101 says play the odds. Troubleshooting 102 says that if a small minority of users are having a problem, you must also keep open other possibilites.

1. Something in the setup changed, so it *is* just a coincidence.
2. The problem did not initially occur with the change in software. The user was looking for problems because the user knew that the software changed.

I have seen both happen in my time as a programmer. Good programmers will start with the odds, but will keep their mind open.

Not to mention that business 101 says that problems that affect a small number of customers and are not the main functionality of the product are much better than problems in the main functionaility that affect a large number of customers.

Legal 101 says that changes that need to be made to functionaility to fulfill contractual obligations need to be made reliably to keep from being sued.

All reasonable reasons to force upgrades, even though some customers might not like that.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

DogLover said:


> I have seen both happen in my time as a programmer. Good programmers will start with the odds, but will keep their mind open.


I'm not disputing that one bit. My point is that an awful lot of folks seem to close their mind to the idea that DirecTV could be having problems with their software. It should no more be the only cause than it can not possibly be the cause.



> Not to mention that business 101 says that problems that affect a small number of customers and are not the main functionality of the product are much better than problems in the main functionaility that affect a large number of customers.


Sure, but no one is saying that DirecTV should elect to have problems that affect a large number of customers. We (I) am saying that DirecTV can and should be expected to be better.



> Legal 101 says that changes that need to be made to functionaility to fulfill contractual obligations need to be made reliably to keep from being sued.


I'm not sure what that has to do with what we are talking about. For example, if functionality XYZ has to be changed to address some legal issue, that doesn't necessarily apply to functionality ABC. It's not mutually exclusive or inclusive.



> All reasonable reasons to force upgrades, even though some customers might not like that.


That's too blanket of a conclusion. Legal 101 only applies to the functionality in legal 101. Business 101 doesn't mean that customers can't have the ability to decide when to apply the update.

Can anyone illustrate any other company that forces the customer to apply updates upon the companies schedule? I'm not talking about saying "you have to update by XYZ". I'm talking about manually forcing the update to occur, with no input, notification, approval or feedback from the customer. I honestly can't think of anyone (maybe DirecTV's competitors do, in which case this is a symptom of an industry problem, not a DirecTV problem).


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

prospero63 said:


> Yes, I do. If due to their incredible short sightedness they have under-trained and unqualified CSRs, that's exactly what I propose. I'm not paid by DirecTV. I'm their customer, and I should be treated thusly. If they'd have done things right the first time, they wouldn't be in this situation. If it costs them to rectify, then it costs them to rectify. Every company that is interested in providing good customer service and maintaining the highest customer satisfaction would spend that money.


Will there be a flag that lets me opt out of the additional charge imposed to cover this expense?


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

jahgreen said:


> Will there be a flag that lets me opt out of the additional charge imposed to cover this expense?


Kind of. They'll still charge you more, but call it something else cool like "super-duper neat functionality surcharge".


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

prospero63 said:


> Can anyone illustrate any other company that forces the customer to apply updates upon the companies schedule? I'm not talking about saying "you have to update by XYZ". I'm talking about manually forcing the update to occur, with no input, notification, approval or feedback from the customer. I honestly can't think of anyone (maybe DirecTV's competitors do, in which case this is a symptom of an industry problem, not a DirecTV problem).


Don't many major corporations do this to their employees? For example, my wife complains when a certain large bank for which she works takes over her laptop when she tries to log off the network, in order to update the software with the bank's custom applications, which frequently knock the laptop out of commission until the tech support guys make a service call.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

jahgreen said:


> Many major corporations do this. For example, my wife complains when a certain large bank for which she works takes over her laptop when she tries to log off the network, in order to update the software with the bank's custom applications, which frequently knock the laptop out of commission until the tech support guys make a service call.


This is a different context though. A companies internal IT group that pushes updates to their computers isn't the same thing as what we are talking about here. While the end user in this case has no say, someone in IT is (almost certainly) deciding when to apply the update.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

prospero63 said:


> Yes, because it can't possibly be a problem with DirecTV. Again, as long as DirecTV has customers that will look the other way with problems, they have no incentive to address them.
> 
> And Occams Razor says that if 1) nothing has changed with the phone company 2) nothing has changed with his wiring and 3) a new software update was pushed, the odds that the problem is 3 are higher than the odds of 1 or 2. Does that mean it can't be 1 or 2? Of course not, but troubleshooting 101 says you play the odds...


I'm not saying that is for sure not a problem with the software. I'm saying that he's assuming it is without checking other things.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

prospero63 said:


> Then frankly it's another poorly managed company.


Do I insult where you work? No, then don't insult where I work.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> Well, I can show you Menu Differences and other differences so if they are coming from identical code then there can not be differences in the Menu. But there are!!!


Where?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GBFAN said:


> I don't use one because I never watch anything live except for NFL games. Everything I want to watch I record. I would like a bigger hard drive but I really don't like the fact that if you use an eSATA it doesn't use the internal drive.


That's just something you have to live with. The benefits of using an eSATA far outweigh the loss of the internal drive. In fact, if you set up the eSATA in a place you can shut it off easily, you can still use the internal drive.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RCY said:


> Then there's no problem putting in a "do not give me the latest software" flag. Make it a backdoor, and tell folks it's not supported. Right?  (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


I never wanted to do anything but disconnect my eSATAs before an NR. As soon as the eSATA is reconnected it will automatically load the NR. I would rather do it one by one instead of all six at once. My concerns are different from the OPs. I don't want to have any control over which software I am using, just a warning that it is coming.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> You have 6 eSATA's drives connected to a HR2x?


No, I have six HRs connected to six eSATAS.



> On the subject though, there is just no way to support multile versions of firmware like the OP wants. Its not just a D* issue either.


I don't want multiple versions, I just want to load the software on my eSATAs one by one. I really don't care which version of software I have, but dumping the software on my system has caused me to lose the programs on one eSATA and all I want is the opportunity to disconnect the eSATAs prior to an NR. Then reconnect them one by one.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> This is a copy of a Post by a guy who lost all of his recordings and then by accident got them back by this procedure.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I learned that I could not reset the receiver without losing everything on the external drive.
> 
> ...


I did all that. Didn't work. He was just lucky. I did the same thing he did and nada.

Rich


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

rich584 said:


> No, I have six HRs connected to six eSATAS.
> 
> I don't want multiple versions, I just want to load the software on my eSATAs one by one. I really don't care which version of software I have, but dumping the software on my system has caused me to lose the programs on one eSATA and all I want is the opportunity to disconnect the eSATAs prior to an NR. Then reconnect them one by one.
> 
> Rich


Giving you notice? How would you like them to inform you? Almost anyway they could still leaves away for you to miss the message, and you wouldn't be able to disconnect the drive(s). I can see your point, and with the wipe that happened a while back, it is somewhat valid. Still the chances of that happening are very slim. I bet you will see the better than option, before that happens again.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> That's like saying "hey guys, good job, we suck the least". That doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement or that they shouldn't continue to try to achieve improvement. I don't want DirecTV to be the company that hangs that hat on being the least sucky. I want them to be the company that hangs their hat on being the best. They used to be that. They can be that again, but as customers we have to demand better.


That's not what I meant and I think you know that. I can speak for myself and I'd really appreciate it if you would just take my answers literally. They are the best provider out there. I think that is a factual statement. I really like the HRs and don't see any reason to think or say anything against them. Two years ago we went thru a nightmare with these things, but now I am quite satisfied with them.

Rich


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

rich584 said:


> I never wanted to do anything but disconnect my eSATAs before an NR. As soon as the eSATA is reconnected it will automatically load the NR. I would rather do it one by one instead of all six at once. My concerns are different from the OPs. I don't want to have any control over which software I am using, just a warning that it is coming.
> 
> Rich


The point is, unsupported functions are just that, unsupported. Whether it's eSATA or a flag to stop software downloads. There is no real impact (other than implementing said function) to D* for an unsupported function.

Anyone calls complaining, and D* says, "tough luck. We don't support that capability."

But as I said earlier, there's no money in it for D*, so it'll never happen.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

AirRocker said:


> My guess would be because the feature is not marketed. I'm sure that if DirecTV ever decided to market (and support) this feature, then it would catch on quite well. I know plenty of people that are "running out of room".


One can only hope you are correct. To be able to use any eSATA on any HR IN MY ACCOUNT is all I want.

I really don't understand why D* has never marketed an eSATA other than the fact that the function doesn't seem to support much more than about 1.3TBs (on the 20-700s). I have a thread running seeking info on the capacities of the various HR models and it seems that at about just a little less than 1.5TB problems occur on some and on others the problems start at just over 1TB. I have two 2TB eSATAs and the best I've been able to do is fill them to about 27-28% of full 2TB capacity. Perhaps you know why? If you do, please jump on my thread and tell us.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> Giving you notice? How would you like them to inform you? Almost anyway they could still leaves away for you to miss the message, and you wouldn't be able to disconnect the drive(s). I can see your point, and with the wipe that happened a while back, it is somewhat valid. Still the chances of that happening are very slim. I bet you will see the better than option, before that happens again.


You don't seriously think that I think I will ever see a message that says "Hey an NR is coming tomorrow morning at 3am", do you? Doesn't stop me from wishing for one tho. And I think that everyone who read the first post on this thread knew that what the OP wanted would never happen.

I spend a lot of time wondering why I can't be Derek Jeter too, but somehow, I doubt that I will ever get a chance to play SS for the Yankees. Doesn't stop me from dreaming tho. :lol:

My son wants me to buy him a Corvette. Another dreamer. Fred wants to go live in California with Very Old School. Another dreamer.

Rich


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, I'd like to respectfully ask that we get back to topic, or if the topic has exhausted itself, this thread may have served its purpose.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

webby_s said:


> I agree with *poppo*
> 
> How do you know you would have a problem. This release is actually a really good release. Try it out, then complain (or praise, I have)!


Actually it's not a good release. While this software version was being tested before being released nationally, there were many reports of it causing severe GUI performance problems on some (but not all) DVRs, but unfortunately DirecTV decided to release it nationally before fixing those problems. If I had the ability to refuse a NR software release, I would have done so for this latest NR on one of my DVRs, because the previous NR is the only software version that allows that DVR to operate properly.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> Actually it's not a good release. While this software version was being tested before being released nationally, there were many reports of it causing severe GUI performance problems on some (but not all) DVRs, but unfortunately DirecTV decided to release it nationally before fixing those problems.


Not in my house. The 0x29n releases have been the (relatively) slow ones. My HR22-100 is still on 0x29b and it feels like molasses . This cycle is great.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> Not in my house. The 0x29n releases have been the (relatively) slow ones. My HR22-100 is still on 0x29b and it feels like molasses . This cycle is great.


I don't consider a software release that doesn't seem to work properly on a significant number of DVRs (judging from the pre-release issue reports) to be a "great" release. It works great on one of my DVRs too, but that hardly makes it a great release.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> I don't consider a software release that doesn't seem to work properly on a significant number of DVRs (judging from the pre-release issue reports) to be a "great" release. It works great on one of my DVRs too, but that hardly makes it a great release.


Your experience is obviously different than mine and different from all those others for whom this release is a positive step.

In fact, I can't recall you ever posting at all except to complain and point out perceived shortcomings, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm just afraid I might get the eSATA problem or I might get the SLOOOOWWWW GUIDE Problem that came up in testing or the SLOOOOOWWWW Delete Problem or the Loss of CallerID, etc.

I'm happy with what I have now and would love that flag so I can stay happy and then after I have monitored what others say about the new NR I can then change the Flag and download the NR!!!


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

The eSATA problem reported in another thread was NOT the fault of the upgrade!


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes, I read that thread and that is good. However, many others have reported eSATA problems.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I've had similar experiences even with USB drives on PCs . . . they work for a while and then . . . no fault of an upgrade, maybe a reboot!

So with all the varied problems people report with their HRs (or Hs), I'm not sure how you can make a decision when to pull the trigger on the upgrade. Most of the problems turn out to be something besides the dvr.

I've been on CE's for over a year and haven't begun to experience some of the weird problems. And (knock on wood), I hope I don't! But I also want the latest upgrade.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

dennisj00 said:


> I've had similar experiences even with USB drives on PCs . . . they work for a while and then . . . no fault of an upgrade, maybe a reboot!
> 
> So with all the varied problems people report with their HRs (or Hs), I'm not sure how you can make a decision when to pull the trigger on the upgrade. Most of the problems turn out to be something besides the dvr.
> 
> I've been on CE's for over a year and haven't begun to experience some of the weird problems. And (knock on wood), I hope I don't! But I also want the latest upgrade.


I've been on the CE's since before there WAS a "CE" program ("Santa" was the nickname of the surprise first "CE-like" special download - it enabled the OTA tuners on the HR20-700 two years ago this week in fact). I just don't have the problems either. But I also don't have marginal wiring, I have very stable home power (I don't run on UPS's either), and I have excellent signal strengths on all satellites (which means my boxes never had trouble grabbing Guide data off 101 or 119 as necessary)*.

*Note: now that I'm on an SWM for all my HR2x boxes, I don't have to worry about it. The SWM maintains an extra channel locked on 101 just for Guide data; it's basically what allows the use of the new Slimline 3 or SWMLine 3 dish - no need for 119 Guide data as a backup when transponders are otherwise locked on 99 or 103.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

richierich said:


> Everything first begins with an IDEA!!!


Right, but not every idea is a good one.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> Giving you notice? How would you like them to inform you?


By sending me a message on my HRs or by email.



> Almost anyway they could still leaves away for you to miss the message, and you wouldn't be able to disconnect the drive(s). I can see your point, and with the wipe that happened a while back, it is somewhat valid. Still the chances of that happening are very slim. I bet you will see the better than option, before that happens again.


As I said in another post in this thread, I'm just hoping for something like this to happen. I realize the chances of it happening are nil, but I can dream and to be honest with you, all I really want is a stable DVR and the ability to swap eSATAs between any HR on my account. Be a couple of nice Xmas present for all the good people who have eSATAs.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Right, but not every idea is a good one.


But why does every post of yours have to end with!!! :lol:

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> But why does every post of yours have to end with!!! :lol:
> 
> Rich


I do that to see if you are paying attention to the post. :lol:

Also, sometimes if I am asking a question it ends with ??? if I am emphasizing something.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I do that to see if you are paying attention to the post. :lol:
> 
> Also, sometimes if I am asking a question it ends with ??? if I am emphasizing something.


Kinda loses the emphasis when you do it on every post. But, that's up to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Think this post has run it's course? Please?

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Alright no more multiple exclamation points per your requests.


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## ex mailman (May 19, 2006)

I really dont know who's right or wrong on these issues. I am not a as techincal as most of you in this forum. But when they download new software I don't expect it to make things worse. Since the last download most of my standard channels are 771 messages. I remove the BBC and everything is fine with the channels. No problems before the last download. I had a tech out and done everything even after reading the problem here and knew it would not help. I wrote Directv and told them if they were aware of this problem and if there was a fix coming soon. I just got the standard letter back to call them even though I told them I had done everything. I really think for most people spending close to a hundred dollars a month that they could be more careful with their downloads or at least tell their customers that there is a problem and will be fixed soon. Thats the least they could do. Thank everyone in this forum. If I got a problem I come here to find out about it. I guess that does not say much for Directv.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

idigg said:


> It's easier for them (DirecTV programmers) to have all the receivers on the same software base.


Unfortunately they cannot even support one version of software, yet alone many at a time. DTV really needs to get their s**t together.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

richierich said:


> I would like to see DIRECTV gives us a Download Flag where we can set it to No to Refuse a New NR Download until we think it will work okay for us.


How about a message sent down the pipe just like their stupid promo messages to let us know ahead of time that our DVR's are about to be trashed like the last one!!! Not just sending down the download in the middle of the day and screwing everybody up!!!


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

Beckzilla said:


> Not just sending down the download in the middle of the day and screwing everybody up!!!


Everybody?? Lets see a whopping 58 posts in the issue thread and most are not even new issues. Doesn't seem like 'everybody' to me. <shrug>


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Ladies and gentlemen, let's get this one back to topic, and refrain from person-to-person discussions. That's what private messages are for.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, let's get this one back to topic, and refrain from person-to-person discussions. That's what private messages are for.


Pushed downloads have not caused a problem for me (including eSATA on an HR20-700) for two years. That's on 3 DVR's, one with eSATA. I have had to restart the eSATA on some download occasions, but that was expected with an unsupported, purely experimental feature. I've also had to play with my AM21 external OTA tuner on occasion after a push.

I hardly consider this "breaking" or otherwise trashing my DVRs or other receivers. Obviously some others have had more problems than I have.

Just another data point, YMMV.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

rich584 said:


> That's not what I meant and I think you know that. I can speak for myself and I'd really appreciate it if you would just take my answers literally. *They are the best provider out there. I think that is a factual statement.*


First, it's not a factual statement it's an opinion.
Second, they are no longer rated highest in customer satisfaction. I believe AT&T or FIOS own that statement now.



> I really like the HRs and don't see any reason to think or say anything against them. Two years ago we went thru a nightmare with these things, but now I am quite satisfied with them.


IMO that's because folks have gotten used to the idiosyncrasies and problems. Folks are used to periodically missing a recording, having updates interfere with things, having to push the RBR, etc. They are used to not having dual live buffers, MRV, etc.

Despite your claim that I knew what you meant, I stand by my take on it. I'm not satisfied spending thousands of dollars for "good enough". I want better.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

prospero63 said:


> First, it's not a factual statement it's an opinion.
> Second, they are no longer rated highest in customer satisfaction. I believe AT&T or FIOS own that statement now.
> 
> IMO that's because folks have gotten used to the idiosyncrasies and problems. Folks are used to periodically missing a recording, having updates interfere with things, having to push the RBR, etc. They are used to not having dual live buffers, MRV, etc.
> ...


So I take it prospero, that you don't care for "MEDIOCRITY"? Maybe your expectations are too high! :lol:


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

richierich said:


> So I take it prospero, that you don't care for "MEDIOCRITY"? Maybe your expectations are too high! :lol:


Clearly. Striving for mediocrity is an all together too common malady in the US IMO. I mean, even looking in this thread someone points out that the majority of the issues for the NR aren't new. Now, one way to look at that is that the NR isn't causing new issues. Another way however is to ask why a release was made that didn't fix more of those old issues.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

prospero63 said:


> Clearly. Striving for mediocrity is an all together too common malady in the US IMO. I mean, even looking in this thread someone points out that the majority of the issues for the NR aren't new. Now, one way to look at that is that the NR isn't causing new issues. Another way however is to ask why a release was made that didn't fix more of those old issues.


EXACTLY my feelings about not fixing issues that are readily apparent and documented in the testing phase which then show up in the NR!!! DUH!!!

What did you expect?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

prospero63 said:


> IMO that's because folks have gotten used to the idiosyncrasies and problems. Folks are used to periodically missing a recording, having updates interfere with things, having to push the RBR, etc. They are used to not having dual live buffers, MRV, etc.


I don't miss recording, I don't have updates "interfere with things" and I don't have to "push the RBR."

Oh, that's right. Another person in this thread has already called me a liar because my system just works.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ex mailman said:


> I really dont know who's right or wrong on these issues. I am not a as techincal as most of you in this forum. But when they download new software I don't expect it to make things worse.


One thing you have to face: Some HRs are going to be adversely affected by every NR. Got yet to see an NR come without someone posting as you have.



> Since the last download most of my standard channels are 771 messages. I remove the BBC and everything is fine with the channels. No problems before the last download. I had a tech out and done everything even after reading the problem here and knew it would not help. I wrote Directv and told them if they were aware of this problem and if there was a fix coming soon. I just got the standard letter back to call them even though I told them I had done everything.


It is disheartening when an HR that works perfectly on one software release gets totally screwed up by a new NR. But, most of us have gone thru the same thing. After a while, you begin to accept it. Someone is going to get bit and all you can do is hope it is not you.



> I really think for most people spending close to a hundred dollars a month that they could be more careful with their downloads or at least tell their customers that there is a problem and will be fixed soon. Thats the least they could do. Thank everyone in this forum. If I got a problem I come here to find out about it. I guess that does not say much for Directv.


And yet, their technical support will eventually get you up and running again. As bad as the support is, compared to other companies they have a pretty good support system. I just went thru a nightmare with D-Link, trying to make my wireless network secure. Their technical support was absolutely useless and I ended up using Vista to secure the router. Last time I buy a D-Link product. And for all those folks anxiously awaiting FIOS, all I can say is that a company that cannot support a cell phone system is going to have a really hard time supporting a system that brings TV programming to homes. I have no intention of renewing my Verizon account mainly because of the total lack of support. Great cell phone network, but you really have to dig to get help when you need it. Just two quick examples of companies with worse support than D*.

The software releases affect a small minority of the HRs. That seems to be a fact. Why? The only conclusion I have been able to come to is that a certain number of HRs have some sort of defective hardware and are adversely affected by the NRs.

Different models seem to be more susceptible to NR caused problems. Almost seems like a "weeding out" process if your problems are limited to one HR and if you have problems after an NR with more than one HR, that seems to indicate a problem in the system that feeds the HRs, starting with the dish and going thru cabling and multi-switches.

If you have more than one HR, troubleshooting is simple. If one HR works and another doesn't, simply switch them. If the HR that worked before the switch exhibits the same problems as the original HR, you have a problem with your "system", the dish to the HR. If the "good" HR works properly after swapping them, you have a problem with the original HR that wasn't working properly to begin with.

If you only have one HR, you're pretty much left to what the CSRs and installers tell you.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

LameLefty said:


> I don't miss recording, I don't have updates "interfere with things" and I don't have to "push the RBR."
> 
> Oh, that's right. Another person in this thread has already called me a liar because my system just works.


Actually, he didn't call you a liar but said either you were or you didn't know that you were experiencing Reboots. That was what he actually meant but he didn't phrase it very well. You are a very lucky man and apparently you have a very good ENVIRONMENT.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> I don't miss recording, I don't have updates "interfere with things" and I don't have to "push the RBR."
> 
> Oh, that's right. Another person in this thread has already called me a liar because my system just works.


I don't think anybody called you a liar at all. Granted you seem to be a minority, with a HR that works trouble free. With the rapid release of some NR's to fix the previous NR, shows that there were major issues. Postings in the whats important feature, the fact that CIG(Channels I Get)feature, received as many votes as it got was surprising and points out why lots of people have missed recordings.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

prospero63 said:


> First, it's not a factual statement it's an opinion.
> Second, they are no longer rated highest in customer satisfaction. I believe AT&T or FIOS own that statement now.
> 
> IMO that's because folks have gotten used to the idiosyncrasies and problems. Folks are used to periodically missing a recording, having updates interfere with things, having to push the RBR, etc. They are used to not having dual live buffers, MRV, etc.
> ...


I stand by what I said. Who would expect a Verizon run company to have better customer support? If I trusted FIOS, we would not be having this conversation. I would have it. I have no particular allegiance to D*. I just like the HRs in comparison to the UTV and TiVo DVRs that I have had. What you want in life and what you get are usually two different things.

Rich


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

richierich said:


> Actually, he didn't call you a liar but said either you were or you didn't know that you were experiencing Reboots. That was what he actually meant but he didn't phrase it very well. You are a very lucky man and apparently you have a very good ENVIRONMENT.


I guarantee you I know when my systems reboot. And yes, I do have a very good environment - good cabling, excellent signal strengths and stable home power make a very, very big difference in overall system stability.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Think this post has run it's course? Please?
> 
> Rich


:up: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> I don't think anybody called you a liar at all. Granted you seem to be a minority, with a HR that works trouble free. With the rapid release of some NR's to fix the previous NR, shows that there were major issues. Postings in the whats important feature, the fact that CIG(Channels I Get)feature, received as many votes as it got was surprising and points out why lots of people have missed recordings.


Or, he is in the majority. All we hear are complaints for the most part and while I think it is necessary for some people to post that they are unaffected by NRs, it is a bit difficult to have to read the same post over and over, especially if you are the one having problems. But without some positive posts, how would we be able to understand how widespread our particular problems are?

I don't have many problems anymore either, but I still dread each NR. And I have been dutifully turning my eSATAs off every night and rebooting all my HRs so they will receive the new NR on the internal drive, but where the devil is it? Seems like a lot of people on the East Coast have received it, but not me.

Rich


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Last warning... please take your statements to each other private or this thread will close.


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## prospero63 (Aug 31, 2008)

LameLefty said:


> I don't miss recording, I don't have updates "interfere with things" and I don't have to "push the RBR."


Great. Because you don't have to do it doesn't mean that others don't or that there isn't a broad scale problem. You are arguing small statistics at this point. "I don't have the problem, thus there can't be a problem".



> Oh, that's right. Another person in this thread has already called me a liar because my system just works.


I never called you a liar. I never disputed that your system works. What I have said is that a lot of folks have gotten so used to the problems that they accept them as normal operations. What I have said is that there are an awful lot of folks willing to make excuses for DirecTV falling short of customer satisfaction.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess that's it then...


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