# Time shifting "Local" channels and streaming?



## GracieAllen (Jan 5, 2015)

I'm trying to figure out if streaming is a viable alternative to satellite. We currently have streaming for Netflix, but I'd like to replace Directv if possible. 

What I haven't found is how to do what we currently do with DTV and a DVR, time shifting programs on network and cable shows as desired and watching them when it's convenient.

Hulu with live TV appears to have networks and SOME of the cable channels we use (I haven't found DIY, for example), and they appear to have a cloud DVR service that I presume would let us time shift. At home we've got wifi that currently works, and we can get unlimited data for the cell phone(s) if necessary for when we're in the RV.

Does all this actually WORK? Are there a bunch of "gotchas" that aren't obvious when looking at the advertising blurbs?


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

At this point YTTV has arguably the best cloud DVR. Unlimited storage, keeps your stuff for up to 9 months, and as of a few days ago you can now FF thru commercials on all channels (their used to be a few channels that replaced DVR content with VOD on which you could not FF, a restrictions placed on them by the channels not YTTV). Works very much like an on premise DVR except, IMHO, better. No conflicts or storage restrictions to worry about and you can access your recordings from just about anywhere.


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## DaRef (Jan 10, 2018)

GracieAllen said:


> I'm trying to figure out if streaming is a viable alternative to satellite. We currently have streaming for Netflix, but I'd like to replace Directv if possible.
> 
> What I haven't found is how to do what we currently do with DTV and a DVR, time shifting programs on network and cable shows as desired and watching them when it's convenient.
> 
> ...


I made the jump to Hulu+Live a month or so ago. For the most part it's been OK. It's not DirecTV but it's also half the price. But as you learn the ins and outs of Hulu it gets easier. The thing with Hulu DVR is that you only get 50 hours and have to watch commercials. I opted for the Enhanced DVR add on to skip commercials and have 200 hours of storage (recordings expire after 9 months). I also added the Unlimited Streams option ($15/month in a bundle). But still far less expensive that DTV. The quality of the viewing experience has been fine.

Our decision came down to YouTube TV or Hulu+Live. Neither had the perfect combination of channels. I considered the Sling combo package but it doesn't have local channels so you still need an antennae for locals and some way to record them if that's an issue for you. I opted for the simplicity of one package and not dealing with an antennae. Your Mileage May Vary.


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

For starters, I suggest you visit a site called suppose.tv. Put in your zip code, select the number of concurrent streams you will need and whether a DVR is needed. Then select the channels you "must have" and it will show you the streaming provider (or combination of providers) that offer those channels and the associated price for each.

Then depending on what service you are looking to join, do a little more poking around in regards to what devices or "sticks" seem to work best with each service your considering. You can easily join a couple of user groups on Facebook or elsewhere that have a lot of good information. I also suggest that you try and avoid cheaping out on the streaming device may also result in poor or unsatisfactory results. Apple TV units are considered by many to be the "elite" of devices. Others consider the Roku devices better due to their more open format and app selection. Others prefer the FireTV sticks, especially if they are already into the "alexa" things. I myself found a marked difference in performance and results when comparing the standard FireTV stick with the FireTV 4K version. I rarely watch 4K content but the higher specs and memory in the 4K version just made it perform better.

You can also save some money in certain instances if your able to get your local channels via an antenna. I get over 50 now and so it made me lean towards a FireTV 4K stick and Recast 4 tuner 1TB OTA DVR as my solution. It not only allows me to use services that may not carry locals (Sling, Philo) or missing one or two as well as save on data usage since our ISP has a 1TB data cap. Being able to record and playback locals from our own DVR vs. streaming those shows saves us a LOT of data. There are other solutions out there as well but again, that is where the research phase comes in. I also chose PS Vue and Philo originally due to not only their channel selection but also because those two services supported the FireTV channel guide and UI and allowed me to have all our programming in one, single channel guide like you would be used to having with DirecTV. With PS Vue now shutting down, we have had to adjust a bit and am replacing PSV with YTTV. It won't be as elegant (YTTV doesn't support the FireTV channel guide) but it is the one that has won the WAF (wife acceptance factor) over others like Hulu and Fubo.

There also seems to be a pretty wide opinion that using an external device or stick of some kind vs. using the apps on your smart TV will result in a better experience. I am not saying some don't have acceptable results from using the apps on a smart TV vs. an external device but YMMV. Results can vary also from one app to the other. Another suggestion is to go thru the trial period (and maybe a month more) of at least one or two different services to not only get a feel for how everything works but also to ensure your setup is working as you expect it to. I went thru the free trials, settled on a set of providers, then ran both my streaming setup and DirecTV side by side for 2 full months to ensure we had an acceptable solution before we cancelled DirecTV for good. Again, obtaining the WAF was THE most important thing in my case. 

If you do a bit of legwork up front, streaming can and does work out for many. The biggest "gotcha" I find with those leaving traditional services for streaming are when sufficient research and testing is not done before hand in not only channel availability for their area but also in regards to usability. I have seen way to many think streaming should "just work" like it does with a traditional service and when it doesn't, they scream to the heavens. With traditional sat and cable services, they control the signal from end to end as well as the hardware being used. In the streaming environment, there is a number of different "cooks in the kitchen" (provider, tier 3 peer agreements, ISP network, modems, routers, home wifi setups, streaming devices, smart TV's, interference in the home, number of streams allowed, etc.) and any one of them can spoil the meal so to speak. So the only way to know if you will be happy is to do due diligence up front and then give yourself time to adjust because there will be a bit of a learning curve.


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## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

Five-month subscriber to YouTube TV here, after being a five-year subscriber to Directv. I'll try to break some of this down to help best answer in quick manner.

1) This is going to be a mind blower, and others may not agree with me as much; In a streaming world, DVR does not matter as much as it does in your Directv setup. Barring live sports, and maybe some network programming, most of your time shifted viewing will be available through independent channel apps (i.e., NBC app, HBO NOW, etc.) You don't necessarily need the DVR functionality as much, because your programs are already available on demand. Even with YouTube TV, I can simply search for recent programs. They're already saved on demand, and I don't have to independently save them to a DVR storage.

2) You're not going to find one service that has all of the channels you get in Directv. I sacrificed a few channels I normally watch, or thought I *had* to have. Turns out, I don't miss them as much as I originally thought.

3) I haven't experienced any gotchas.

My best advice is to simply sign up for some free trials, and go into things with an open mind. I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

B. Shoe said:


> Five-month subscriber to YouTube TV here, after being a five-year subscriber to Directv. I'll try to break some of this down to help best answer in quick manner.
> 
> 1) *This is going to be a mind blower*, and others may not agree with me as much; In a streaming world, DVR does not matter as much as it does in your Directv setup. Barring live sports, and maybe some network programming, most of your time shifted viewing will be available through independent channel apps (i.e., NBC app, HBO NOW, etc.) You don't necessarily need the DVR functionality as much, because your programs are already available on demand. Even with YouTube TV, I can simply search for recent programs. They're already saved on demand, and I don't have to independently save them to a DVR storage.


Not to me. Been years since I recorded a series on my DVRs. Only use them for sports. If you don't use a cable replacement service or have to have D* for sports I see no need for a DVR. Everything is right there in the cloud when you stream. If you have to have a cable replacement service you definitely need to make sure you have a decent DVR service.

Rich


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## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

Rich said:


> Not to me. Been years since I recorded a series on my DVRs. Only use them for sports. If you don't use a cable replacement service or have to have D* for sports I see no need for a DVR. Everything is right there in the cloud when you stream. If you have to have a cable replacement service you definitely need to make sure you have a decent DVR service.


Right, but you also get it, Rich.  But as I continue my streaming-only journey, I continue to see this be one of the top hang-ups in regards to someone considering the jump. They want and expect a DVR experience similar to what they have in the Directv/linear provider ecosystem. But why manage recordings/setup, etc., if you don't have to? And in reality, that cloud-based, on demand streaming has been available for many satellite customers for years, already. Even before making the shift to streaming-only, I kept my apps ready for streaming while active (Because watching live TV through the D* app is a little bit of a clunky experience), and it always boggled me how many people didn't know that the content was available to them through those means.


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## DaRef (Jan 10, 2018)

I've been a long time cable\satellite subscriber and never fell in love with On Demand programming for at least two reasons: 1) Until the programs are at least a week old (sometimes more) you are forced to watch commercials and 2) the shelf life of On Demand episodes can be too short for me (sometimes as little as four or five weeks). We normally record new episodes of numerous programs but can't always keep up week to week. And we also like to keep one or two series with several unwatched episodes for periods to cover mid-season hiatus periods and the summer programming desert (which isn't quite as bad as it used to be). For us, the Hulu+Live Enhanced DVR comes acceptably close to the cable\satellite DVR's which is something I never thought I would say. Each family will have to find what works best for them. "Your Mileage May Vary" has seldom been more true than it currently is with so many choices of television programming.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Like many faced with the demise of Vue in a few weeks, I keep pitting youtubetv v hulu live, will probably go with yttv after hulu yanks prices on 18 Dec, even though I've been a long time sub with hulu no ads for 4+ years, and just got the disney+ deal with hulu rebate. 

As a 25+ year directv sub who jumped ship a year ago, getting local channels (better than dtv with all/most of the sub-channels has been the goal) the only solution has been comcast stream at $20/month although locast recently turned on the Seattle dma but with no dvr support ('channels' firetv dvr system does but I have 4 roku's and dont want to spend $500+ replacing a system that works perfectly with all the other streaming vendors while 'fire' has multiple problems). As I keep having to remind folks, these far west dma's are 250 miles wide (not counting the volcanic ranges) and even if one lives close in to the ota towers deed restrictions in many communities prohibit rooftop antennas, even if it was possible in my current location some 100 miles+ from those towers in downtown Seattle (my next door neighbor had reception growing up in the 60s-70s analog with a 100' tower antenna that would just pull in most but not all stations).

So it remains a rock and hard place, complicated by dvr restrictions and lack of carridge by the streaming companies companies. When will any of them jump onto locast?

Fyi TiVo has but again, would have to replace my entire system at $$$.


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## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

DaRef said:


> I've been a long time cable\satellite subscriber and never fell in love with On Demand programming for at least two reasons: 1) Until the programs are at least a week old (sometimes more) you are forced to watch commercials and 2) the shelf life of On Demand episodes can be too short for me (sometimes as little as four or five weeks). We normally record new episodes of numerous programs but can't always keep up week to week. And we also like to keep one or two series with several unwatched episodes for periods to cover mid-season hiatus periods and the summer programming desert (which isn't quite as bad as it used to be). For us, the Hulu+Live Enhanced DVR comes acceptably close to the cable\satellite DVR's which is something I never thought I would say. Each family will have to find what works best for them. "Your Mileage May Vary" has seldom been more true than it currently is with so many choices of television programming.


I would ask which programs/channels are you watching that have such a long delay for on-demand streaming? All of the major networks now do next-day availability through their individual channel apps. HBO does instant availability for programs as soon as they premiere.

And agreed, this is all a YMMV situation for each individual consumer.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

B. Shoe said:


> Right, but you also get it, Rich.  But as I continue my streaming-only journey, I continue to see this be one of the top hang-ups in regards to someone considering the jump. They want and expect a DVR experience similar to what they have in the Directv/linear provider ecosystem. But why manage recordings/setup, etc., if you don't have to? And in reality, that cloud-based, on demand streaming has been available for many satellite customers for years, already. Even before making the shift to streaming-only, I kept my apps ready for streaming while active (Because watching live TV through the D* app is a little bit of a clunky experience), and it always boggled me how many people didn't know that the content was available to them through those means.


Yes, folks need to be educated about streaming. All this nonsense about how difficult it is to stream is kinda funny but I understand why some people don't even want to try it. Inertia is hard to overcome.

Rich


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

I’m still curious if any of you streamers reach or go over your data caps?


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## B. Shoe (Apr 3, 2008)

Rich said:


> Yes, folks need to be educated about streaming. All this nonsense about how difficult it is to stream is kinda funny but I understand why some people don't even want to try it. Inertia is hard to overcome.


My biggest concern comes in times of severe weather. Rain fade, although it seems to hit some harder than others, is a real concern for satellite subscribers during severe weather. We have a station in our DMA that pushes purchasing weather radios as a major component of their weather brand. But several stations stream their severe weather coverage, and some don't know that information is accessible to them. I'm nitpicking on one point, I know, but blame the frustration on my former job in TV news when someone would tell me, "Well, I couldn't watch your coverage because the dish went out." There. Are. Options.



TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm still curious if any of you streamers reach or go over your data caps?


We've had a few people on here that have mentioned they come close, and in some instances maybe go over, in some other threads.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm still curious if any of you streamers reach or go over your data caps?


We average 3-4 hours of TV 7 nights a week, plus are heavy web users. Here's what Comcast says we use:


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm still curious if any of you streamers reach or go over your data caps?


I had comcast business class for 15 years, no caps, but when I wanted 'stream' with dvr (comcast has all locals with sub-channels plus a few other channels like weather channel and cspan for $20/month) had to switch to residential; luckily comcast relented on their 1GB monthly cap a year before for $50/month so it's expensive but I needed the bits as I still do some work from home (retired almost 20 years). So expensive but 'need to have'. Waiting for starlink next year if the price is right, tmobile has turned on 5g out here in the sticks so also looking into their uncapped wireless home internet (can see their tower from my front porch).

Fyi running some 4TB on my 'work' and 5-6TB on streaming per month on 275/10mb/s cable, if I could get an off network dvr could go back to business class 75/15mb/s at $50/month less.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm still curious if any of you streamers reach or go over your data caps?


Thankfully my ISP doesn't have any data caps but according to my router I haven't ever gone over 700gb in any month and I have been 100% streaming for over three years now. Most months I don't go over 500gb. Of course as with anything YMMV.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I'm still curious if any of you streamers reach or go over your data caps?


Nope. Don't have data caps. If we did have data caps I would happily pay the price.

Rich


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