# Status of Channels I Get?



## BubbaDude (May 22, 2007)

Last May I posted a few messages here on the fact that keyword-based recording didn't work on the HR20 due to the Channels I Get information being wrong and not correctable by the user. I was told that a fix was just around the corner and I was being too negative, etc. Well, here it is March and the Major League Baseball season has started, and still the Channels I Get feature is totally broken.

Is there any update to DirecTV's promise to fix this thing or is it still "just around the corner?"

By my calculation it's been broken for over two years now.


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

Seems like D* is too busy delivering lots of (un-needed?) new bells and whistles instead of giving us the BASIC stuff promised in the owner's manuals for over a year!

Stinks, huh?


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

"totally broken"? Last I checked, a large number of channels I don't get were off the list. Not all, but a lot.


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## cadet502 (Jun 17, 2005)

sbl said:


> "totally broken"? Last I checked, a large number of channels I don't get were off the list. Not all, but a lot.


Sorry, but I've got to agree with totally broken. When an ARSL returns a dozen spanish channels I don't get, and tries to record one of those channels I'd say it's still totally broken. CIG cannot be depended on at all.

But that's ok cause we can just watch our Medias%$t videos instead of the TV shows we can't record.


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## Neural762 (Mar 1, 2008)

If you're going to do something automatically, and remove all control from the user, you better be sure it works 100% correctly. Otherwise, it's best to let the user override the automatic settings. I find the autorecord feature pretty useless because of the CIG problem. As much as I like seeing new features, I would love to see a focus on fixing all the problems and limitations with basic functionality before adding new stuff.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I gotta agree Channels I Get is kind of a binary thing...it either works or it doesn't. It doesn't and it hasn't for well over a year. They may be working on it, but it's obviously taking a back seat to other issues. It may be they're just waiting for the usage rate of some problematic machines to drop naturally before implementing a fix.


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## MaxPower1974 (Jun 28, 2007)

I've never seen CIG work, and I've been a subscriber since 2005. It has always frustrated me that I need to set up a custom list - and it can't be edited on the fly (i.e. a channel should be able to be added or deleted while your watching it with one button - not the convoluted menu nav).


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## kimi (Mar 12, 2008)

Gee, um, lets see, I have every channel between 100 and 200 on my "channels I get list"

AND EVERY FARKING PORN CHANNEL!!!! I HAVE CHILDREN AND I DONT WANT THEM TO SEE THE DISGUSTING TITLES.

DOES FARKING DIRECTV CARE? NO.

FARKING SONS OF BITHCES.

I dont subscribe to this ****, but i have to deal with it anyway. Im ready to cancel after 3 weeks


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

kimi said:


> Gee, um, lets see, I have every channel between 100 and 200 on my "channels I get list"
> 
> AND EVERY FARKING PORN CHANNEL!!!! I HAVE CHILDREN AND I DONT WANT THEM TO SEE THE DISGUSTING TITLES.
> 
> ...


kimi,

Use the Parental Controls available from the main menu. They're far from perfect (especially when it comes to searches), but will help in blocking the content and some of the show title displays.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

kimi said:


> Gee, um, lets see, I have every channel between 100 and 200 on my "channels I get list"
> 
> AND EVERY FARKING PORN CHANNEL!!!! I HAVE CHILDREN AND I DONT WANT THEM TO SEE THE DISGUSTING TITLES.
> 
> ...


tell us how you really feel

:nono2:


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

BubbaDude said:


> By my calculation it's been broken for over two years now.


Gee, Umm, lets' see, I wasn't even aware there was a problem.

I set up a favorites list, check the channels I want to have on my list, un-check the ones I don't want and everything works fine.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

glennb said:


> I set up a favorites list, check the channels I want to have on my list, un-check the ones I don't want and everything works fine.


this is exactly what kimi needs to do... instead of screaming and cursing...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It's a long term issue. I'm sure that if DIRECTV knew that it would take over 25 months to resolve they would have gone a different way. In the meantime, the best workaround is setting up favorites lists and, when the new search keywords become available to everyone, using them to exclude channels you don't want.


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> It's a long term issue. I'm sure that if DIRECTV knew that it would take over 25 months to resolve they would have gone a different way. In the meantime, the best workaround is setting up favorites lists and, when the new search keywords become available to everyone, using them to exclude channels you don't want.


Using the boolean search feature in that manner is way too cumbersome. Eons ago a number of us suggested a simple filter to limit search results to channels on a favorites list. The answer from Earl and others was always that it wasn't necessary, because the whole issue was going to be taken care of RSN. How'd that work out?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

As I said, if everyone involved knew how long it would take for a solution, maybe different decisions would have been made. Trust me, search for old posts on the subject and you'll see I'm just as unhappy about it as you.


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> As I said, if everyone involved knew how long it would take for a solution, maybe different decisions would have been made. Trust me, search for old posts on the subject and you'll see I'm just as unhappy about it as you.


No criticism of you intended. It's just that there are so many relatively easy ways this could have been handled while waiting for perfection to arrive.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

Setting the favorites list doesn't help if you want to create an autorecord search. It will find matches on all channels you "get".


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

We're currently testing out new modifiers for the search function that will allow you to limit it to a channel range. That should help. Please see our Cutting Edge forum for more details.


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## BubbaDude (May 22, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> We're currently testing out new modifiers for the search function that will allow you to limit it to a channel range. That should help. Please see our Cutting Edge forum for more details.


I gave Direct a year to resolve the problem, and they haven't been able to do it, so today I cancelled my service. I can happily report that TiVoHD on cable doesn't have this problem.

Direct wants to charge me an early termination fee because I had the HD DVR for less than two years, and that's going to be interesting given that the service never worked as advertised.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

BubbaDude said:


> I gave Direct a year to resolve the problem, and they haven't been able to do it, so today I cancelled my service. I can happily report that TiVoHD on cable doesn't have this problem.
> 
> Direct wants to charge me an early termination fee because I had the HD DVR for less than two years, and that's going to be interesting given that the service never worked as advertised.


I don't see CIG as a huge issue - I setup my favorites list once and was done with it. To each his own. Best of luck with cable.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

I agree that this really needs to be fixed... Seems like they worked on it for a while... then slacked off again... I wouldn't cancel my service over it... but it is quite annoying...


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## BubbaDude (May 22, 2007)

The lady who terminates accounts didn't understand why I wanted out. I explained that I use keyword search to record Oakland A's games, and that the DVR tries to record them on channels I don't get instead of on channels I do get. This was mystifying to her. She said "like, you try to record "All Children" and it records "General Hospital" instead?"

"No," I said, I tell it to record "Oakland A's". These games are on my regional sports net or a local channel, but they're also on the other team's regional sports net or local channels. Instead of recording on my regional sports net - the one that's in my subscription - it tries to record on the other sports net, the one that's not in my subscription." So she says "Is that baseball? Are you saying it can't record ESPN?" and "have you replaced your DVR?" and all that nonsense.

At that point I said "never mind, the problem has been reported, I'm not the only one that has it, and Direct has chosen not to fix it. Turn me off."

Comcast doesn't staff their tech support with geniuses either, but I'm not going to miss this kind of conversation. I was a Direct customer for 7 years, but enough is enough.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I know that our most recent data gathering on CIG issues has gone to the right people and they are looking into it. I hope we can get a speedy resolution.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I hope we can get a speedy resolution.


directv + speedy solution = march 2010.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

This issue would only impact me if the DVR was recording from channels I don't subscribe to, and that's not happening.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> I don't see CIG as a huge issue - I setup my favorites list once and was done with it. To each his own. Best of luck with cable.


tcusta,

Not having CIG means that any search will bring up porno titles and any autorecord will potentially try to record from the wrong channel...or one which you don't get.

I don't understand why DirecTV needs reports on whether this is working or not...don't they have one of their own receivers?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Ken S said:


> tcusta,
> 
> Not having CIG means that any search will bring up porno titles and any autorecord will potentially try to record from the wrong channel...or one which you don't get.
> 
> I don't understand why DirecTV needs reports on whether this is working or not...don't they have one of their own receivers?


I can see how it would affect people, but it just hasn't personally been an issue for me, like Drew...



Drew2k said:


> This issue would only impact me if the DVR was recording from channels I don't subscribe to, and that's not happening.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Ken S said:


> ...
> I don't understand why DirecTV needs reports on whether this is working or not...don't they have one of their own receivers?


That is the key question!

IMO, if the old standard receivers, like my 1996 Sony SAT-A2, could set up the guide according to what I have subscribed, why not these DVRs?


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## bentbiker (Jun 28, 2008)

Over the last few days, I've spoken to several Cust Svc Reps and always been referred to a Tech Suppt person -- 3 or 4, including a supervisor who has been in Tech Suppt for 5 years. According to them, the Channels I Receive was never intended to be anything other than a list of all the POSSIBLE channels that I can subscribe to and receive. They claim they've never heard of any turning off of the feature because it interfered with older units. They expressed extreme puzzlement as to why this is a problem. After all, you can just recognize those channels that turn up in a search that you don't receive, and delete them before they record. Or, "You just need to subscribe to those channels that keep being recorded in error."

With each and every person, I had to explain no fewer than 4 or 5 times how some people autorecord every occurrence of any sports program with a keyword of "Louisville" (as an example) and how the unit recording an event on a channel I DON'T receive can often prevent the recording on a different channel that I DO receive.

I realize that I was not talking to any engineers working on problems, but 8 months ago all the techs acknowledged the problem and promised it was about to be fixed. At that time, I was told they would not let me out of my 2 year contract but if I did cancel and was billed, I could appeal it and HOPE for an exception. Now, there is no way out because everything is working as designed.

I encourage anyone concerned with this problem to inundate them with complaint calls to the point where they realize we aren't going away. At the VERY least, they need to educate their Tech Suppt personnel re the problem. I've been with DirecTV since they started but I plan to bail out as soon as my contract ends. I soooo want to get back to Tivo and I guess that rules out DirecTV -- shame they got so greedy and dumped Tivo.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

bentbiker said:


> Over the last few days, I've spoken to several Cust Svc Reps


Why?

I don't think I've spoken to "several" CSR's in all my years combined.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Why?
> 
> I don't think I've spoken to "several" CSR's in all my years combined.


Consider yourself fortunate.

One reason for speaking to "several" CSR's is that the first one is clueless. Most have a script to follow and if your problem doesn't fit the script they cannot come close to solving the problem.

Fortunately I've only had a couple CSR's like this. However, I can say that I've spoken to more than several in the past 18 months. However, things are getting better -- I haven't had to call at all for the past few months.


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## bentbiker (Jun 28, 2008)

spartanstew said:


> Why?


For the purpose of finding out about the title of this thread -- the status of Channels I Get.


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## OakdaleMike (Jun 29, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> I can see how it would affect people, but it just hasn't personally been an issue for me, like Drew...


I've been lurking here since the early days of the HR20 and this forum helped me survive. But in all this time, there remain two factions: those who find the device usable, and those who don't. I think nearly all of us in the latter category watch baseball, NBA basketball, and/or NHL Hockey. Fans of one local team in that category cannot reliably follow their team if all they have is an HR20.

Personally, I've given up on any systematic scheduling and just pick my games every day, one at a time, from the guide. Lately, however, even that has failed, because the guide shows the game will be on CSNBA HD and when I begin watching it, the HR20 gives me a beautiful, pristine black screen.

Fortunately, I still have my HR10 in the bedroom and it has never failed me. (In fairness, this is partially because it won't even get CSNBA HD!).

I used to sit next to Tivo's "software architect" at Shark's games -- he told me that his mission in life was to make Tivo the sports fan's most necessary gadget. He understood sports and the special problems involved with properly recording events. Obviously nobody like him works for DirecTV. They simply do not get it...

Mike


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## justlgi (Apr 11, 2008)

OakdaleMike said:


> They simply do not get it...Mike


That goes for more than just sports. It seems as an end user that they are more interested in the niche things like streaming video to/from the box than they are in the core usability such as actually having a channels I get that shows the channels I get, or DLB.

I think the development of the new and cutting edge things are great. But when you hear people rave about TiVo it wasn't because of how they were able to stream a video off the internet. It's because the fundamentals were rock solid and dependable and if you listen closely that's the same thing people say about the Dish DVRs as well.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

I have no kids in the house, and am a strong supporter of freedom of choice regarding adult entertainment options. It's everybody's right to decide what they do (or don't) watch in their own home. 

However, even I am dismayed by the problem with the way the search function works, and am sympathetic to those who are offended by the titles returned by the search function. I would normally tell them not to watch, but that is really not an option when a routine search for "Debbie...." gets you "Debbie does Dallas," or much worse.

There is really no excuse for this. Although it often leads to interesting conversation (or just a painful, awkward silence) when guests are over, I could live without the suspense of waiting to see their reaction.

What in the world was D* thinking? I agree that they really don't get it.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> There is really no excuse for this. Although it often leads to interesting conversation (or just a painful, awkward silence) when guests are over, I could live without the suspense of waiting to see their reaction.


Chuckles, nudging, and winks are the reactions I get...:lol:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I do not understand what the previous two posts have to do with the "Channels I Get" issue.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I was under the impression that when CIG was fixed, searches would then only show results from channels in our package.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> I was under the impression that when CIG was fixed, searches would then only show results from channels in our package.


I sure hope so.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I do not understand what the previous two posts have to do with the "Channels I Get" issue.


well if the issue was fixed (as it should have been long ago) you wouldnt have seen those 2 posts.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

At this point the issue is mostly fixed. There are some noted channels such as foreign language channels and Showtime that don't adhere to the rules. DIRECTV is aware of this and are working on it.


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> At this point the issue is mostly fixed. There are some noted channels such as foreign language channels and Showtime that don't adhere to the rules. DIRECTV is aware of this and are working on it.


Huh?! So, you're telling me that selecting Channels I Get gives you, well, only the channels you get (i.e. those in your package) and none others, such that if you were to go to each channel in the guide, you would see content on each one (excluding, of course, blackouts)?

Where can I get a box like yours?

--Mav


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Maverickster said:


> Huh?! So, you're telling me that selecting Channels I Get gives you, well, only the channels you get (i.e. those in your package) and none others, such that if you were to go to each channel in the guide, you would see content on each one (excluding, of course, blackouts)?
> 
> Where can I get a box like yours?
> 
> --Mav


Stuart noted "mostly" fixed, and noted some exceptions. Are you overlooking his full response?

And instead of responding with a "tongue-in-cheek" post (to be charitable), perhaps it would be more helpful to list the specific channels that are incorrectly appearing in your channels I get list ...


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Stuart noted "mostly" fixed, and noted some exceptions. Are you overlooking his full response?
> 
> And instead of responding with a "tongue-in-cheek" post (to be charitable), perhaps it would be more helpful to list the specific channels that are incorrectly appearing in your channels I get list ...


I believe I've already posted those in that "other thread" where that was asked of us, but if not, will do so tonight.

How about instead of constant "it's pretty much fixed" or "it's mostly fixed" or "it's fixed except for foreign channels" or etc. posts (which we all know are not true), we get an acknowlegement that this is a problem and maybe some sort of info on why it's STILL a problem and, maybe, god forbid, some info on what (if anything) is being done about it and an ETA?

If "Channels I Get" yields anything other than the "Channels I Get", there's simply no place for a statement that it's "almost fixed". It's fixed or it's not. "Channels I Get" does not mean "Channels I Would Get if I Subscribed to Them" nor does it mean "Channels I Get Plus Some Others"; it means "Channels I Get". Saying otherwise is like fighting over what the word "is" means. This is as basic as it gets, and I'm incredibly tired of hearing the same old garbage about how it's "mostly fixed" or some semantic distinction between what the poster is asking and the problem s/he's identifying (another annoyingly common practice).

I've never typed a post like this before on this board, but I think this expresses the frustration of a good many DBS readers, myself included.

[/rant]

--Mav


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Maverickster,

Believe me there is no one on this site more frustrated than myself that this isn't perfect. My rants on the subject were five times more vitriolic than yours.

This is what I can tell you, as far as today:

CIG should be completely implemented on local channels and channels in the 100s through 300s.

There are known CIG issues with channels over 300 and specifically with foreign language channels and the Showtime channels.

About 2 months ago I ran a thread asking for reports of all CIG issues and I got a very consistent response. This response went straight to the people at DIRECTV who are in charge of implementing CIG.

Believe me I understand where you are coming from. At this point our friends at DIRECTV know there are issues and are working to implement fixes. At some point I will get a status report on that but for now, they understand there's an issue, and they're working on it.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Stuart,

Thanks for the update.

So what is the status of the 'Search only Channels I Get'?

Will this be fixed at the same time?


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

FWIW, if I do a keyword search for Olympics, I get a listing of all kinds of channels I don't get in the 70's and 80's as well as in the 300s.

Maybe that is by design as Stuart did mention it was fixed in locals + 100-300 and the 70s and 80s are not in that range.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

ATARI said:


> Stuart,
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> 
> ...


I'll be honest with you... I haven't even pressed that issue as I would rather they spend the time getting CIG 100% right first.


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'll be honest with you... I haven't even pressed that issue as I would rather they spend the time getting CIG 100% right first.


Or being able to use a favorites list as a search filter, a suggestion that was first made here about two years ago. Implementing this simple proposal wouldn't require getting CIG "100% right first." I rarely post about the CIG issue(s) any more, because my head still hurts from beating it against the same unresponsive wall so many times.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think your suggestion is on the HR20 Wish List, I voted for it myself.


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think your suggestion is on the HR20 Wish List, I voted for it myself.


It's fun to vote, but this isn't a democracy, or open source software. If it were the former, we'd have a solution by now; if it were the latter, there are lots of people here who could write clever scripts. What's so galling about this particular issue is that (a) it's easy to fix without making CIG perfect; (b) the HR20 manually falsely claimed from the beginning that there is no problem; and (c) it worked years ago on lots of DVRs, including the DirecTiVos.


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## puffnstuff (Sep 2, 2006)

How long do we have to wait ? Why does it seem like the team at Directv keeps trying to add bells and whistles and not take care of things like this , that are actuall things DVR's should do ? I mean come on ( I think ) it has been over 2 years and still nothing . All the crap with this box really makes you look hard at the competition .


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I do not understand what the previous two posts have to do with the "Channels I Get" issue.


Stuart,

Sit at your TV set with some children and use a title search for a kids program. Then when the list starts populating (letter by letter) and that search for "Summer Fun for Kids" brings up "Sucking Miss Daisy" or far worse (those are both made up titles btw) you'll understand.

Since Earl and others made it quite clear there was no hope that our favorites lists would ever be used as a limiter for searches our only hope was with Channels I Get actually working correctly one day. It doesn't and DirecTV has not addressed this issue.


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

Getting CIG to actually limit the data available to the HR20/21 to the channels you actually get is a basic, fundamental operation that in addition to making the guide more usable (without having to constantly adjust and re-adjust a favorites list), forms the basis for any number of operations (searches that yield only recordable results w/ no porn, auto-records that record only recordable shows, etc.), but in order for all of those "building block"-type tasks to work correctly, the foundation -- CIG -- needs to be 100% correct. 

Why this is so difficult to understand escapes me. Why this is so difficult to implement correctly escapes me. It leads me to think this more a lack of a "want to" on the part of D* (use of abbreviation intended) than a "can't". After all, if D* only shows you what you actually get, then how can they show you what you're "missing" by not subscribing to additional packages and add-ons? Nearly 2 years later the device cannot, strike that, will not do what was in the manual for crying out loud. Why?! Because for whatever reason (be it marketing winning over engineering, be it ineptitude, be it lack of concern), D* is simply refusing to ensure that the foundational DVR functions work correctly. CIG and, relatedly, Guide Data Accuracy are at the center of this. Grrrrrrrr...this is frustrating....

--Mav


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I used to think that it couldn't be that hard, then I was lucky enough to get a glimpse at some of the systems involved and, well... it is. There's real transponder mappings, virtual transponder mappings, channel assignments, all in constant flux. 

Don't get me wrong, I still agree with you, it's a core feature and should be right. You just have to trust me that even though you'd think it would be a simple thing, letting the receiver know what package you have and limiting channels to that package, like I said before... it isn't.


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I used to think that it couldn't be that hard, then I was lucky enough to get a glimpse at some of the systems involved and, well... it is. There's real transponder mappings, virtual transponder mappings, channel assignments, all in constant flux.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I still agree with you, it's a core feature and should be right. You just have to trust me that even though you'd think it would be a simple thing, letting the receiver know what package you have and limiting channels to that package, like I said before... it isn't.


I know you agree, and I know you're not making excuses, but they've had nearly 2 years to get this right. They've exhausted their right to say "give us some time, it's hard to do". They could've re-build the software from scratch multiple times over that period of time. This isn't J6P writing script in his basement. This is a publicly-traded company and one of the largest cablesats in the world. "It's too hard" is a BS excuse at this point.

--Mav


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I used to think that it couldn't be that hard, then I was lucky enough to get a glimpse at some of the systems involved and, well... it is. There's real transponder mappings, virtual transponder mappings, channel assignments, all in constant flux.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I still agree with you, it's a core feature and should be right. You just have to trust me that even though you'd think it would be a simple thing, letting the receiver know what package you have and limiting channels to that package, like I said before... it isn't.


Stuart,

That may be so...but come on...we're talking years here. But let's say this is the great technological stumper that it is...how about just making the favorites list work in the search function?


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## bmeeks8 (Sep 15, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I used to think that it couldn't be that hard, then I was lucky enough to get a glimpse at some of the systems involved and, well... it is. There's real transponder mappings, virtual transponder mappings, channel assignments, all in constant flux.


Not trying to be a smart alec, but they certainly don't seem to have problem knowing what channels I'm subscribed to as I surf around. I mean the box instantly tells me when I'm not authorized to view a channel; no matter where it is (transponder, virtual channel number, etc.). So if it's that easy while surfing, what's the big deal with CIG when it comes to the Guide and recording?


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## jfm (Nov 29, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Maverickster,
> This is what I can tell you, as far as today:
> 
> CIG should be completely implemented on local channels and channels in the 100s through 300s.
> ...


When I first read this thread this morning, my blood pressure spiked. Under my Total Choice package I think I only get a little over 100 channels, while CIG indicates I get 612 channels. But after actually going and looking at the channels listed in CIG on my DVR, I found that much of the difference is due to multiple listings of local channels and my apparent misunderstanding of what is meant by CIG. I can understand the multiple listing of the local channels (HD, SD and OTA).

Where my misconception has been is that I consider the "Channels I Get" to be only those which I get without paying extra, while apparently (since "channels in the 100s through 300s" are completely implemented) D* views CIG to be the channels I get for free plus all the channels I can purchase (i.e. PPV). Thus even when CIG is "fixed", movie searches will include PPV results.

As I see it, one of the big issues stated by parents in this thread is searches bring up porno results. My CIG currently includes porno channels (e.g. JUCY, FRSH, SEXX, HUST), which again are pay channels that I have no interest in. These are not specifically listed in the "known CIG issues with channels over 300" quote above, so I assume that these are not considered errors. As long as D* keeps the PPV and porno channels in CIG this issue will remain for parents.

IMHO, while I understand D*s monetary desire to keep the PPV channels in CIG, I think they should exclude the porno channels from searches.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I can see your point but you are right, DIRECTV will never take PPV channels out of your CIG list.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

jfm said:


> IMHO, while I understand D*s monetary desire to keep the PPV channels in CIG, I think they should exclude the porno channels from searches.


IMHO, the proper balance would be to have CID dependent on parental controls.

And a +1 on bmeeks' post. Why is this so technically difficult? The receiver KNOWS what you get. The guide data is basically a database. It should be a pretty simple query. The first DirecTV receiver I got 12 years ago was able to do this.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'd like to point out that 12 years ago there was one satellite. The DIRECTV system is so much more complex now, and as I said, I thought it would be easy too. But it's not. In the meantime, I agree that there are different ways of dealing with the issue that aren't being done, but to scrap everything that is in place, and does work at least partially, isn't going to happen.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

John:

Now that is a good idea! 

All that is required is a small piece of code that blocks the search function from reporting the results from the 551-599 channels, that can be toggled on and off by the user as part of the parental controls function(s).

I never activate the parental controls, but I would definitely choose to take the adult program titles out of all my search results. That seems like a no brainer on many levels.

I don't think these type of problems are monumentally complicated. I think they have simply been pushed aside and/or given low priorities (in some cases for marketing reasons). 2 years is a long, long time in the software business. I think the generic "it's complicated and users just need to be patient" is an excuse whose time has come and gone.

You also have to wonder if the guy who recommended killing the prior relationship with TIVO warned the decision makers that D*s software team would still be trying to figure out how to do this kind of basic stuff 2 years after the replacement DVR was released. I bet not.


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'd like to point out that 12 years ago there was one satellite. The DIRECTV system is so much more complex now, and as I said, I thought it would be easy too. But it's not.


Sure, but in 12 years, I would think they'd gain the knowledge to at _least_ keep up with their own technology. I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I'd be very interested in understanding WHY it's so hard. The guide data is a database, with various flags and data fields. It doesn't have a hard time finding data based on flags for program types, or by keywords. It shouldn't really matter how many satellites there are... each one has a unique code that identifies the transmission. If they have one satellite with 32 transponders, or multiple satellites, it's just a different number. Can you share whatever it is that has convinced you that it's difficult?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

So...I guess the status is.

1. "Channels I Get" doesn't work.
2. It's just too hard for them to get it to work correctly anytime soon.
3. "Channels I Get" for a subscriber to the Family Plan are SUPPOSED to include all of the Adult Channels.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

Ken S said:


> 3. "Channels I Get" for a subscriber to the Family Plan are SUPPOSED to include all of the Adult Channels.


well kids are growin up so fast these days....see jamie lynn spears.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Ken S said:


> So...I guess the status is.
> 
> 1. "Channels I Get" doesn't work.
> 2. It's just too hard for them to get it to work correctly anytime soon.
> 3. "Channels I Get" for a subscriber to the Family Plan are SUPPOSED to include all of the Adult Channels.


and apparently,

4. Search just FAVORITES will never be implemented.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

As sort of a secondary broken thing related to this, if you do an autorecord wishlist of a show and have "hide SD duplicates" selected, it still records both the SD and HD show at the same time on their respective channels if you have both tuners enabled.

Not particularly helpful.

As to the complexity of the fix, the receiver seems to know enough on playback of the show to tell me that I didnt have the channel, wasnt authorized to see it, or that there was no signal on the channel.

Whats the rocket science involved with making that check before starting the recording as opposed to the start of playback?

After experiencing how effectively directv has been able to code their product to stop me from watching a recorded show within 10 seconds of no longer subscribing to its channel, it seems hard to believe they cant figure out how to make the unit not record from channels I dont have. My free 3 months of starz ended the other day and every bit of recorded show gave me a "not authorized for content" error.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Must be a market/sales vs. engineering disconnect.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

t_h said:


> As sort of a secondary broken thing related to this, if you do an autorecord wishlist of a show and have "hide SD duplicates" selected, it still records both the SD and HD show at the same time on their respective channels if you have both tuners enabled.


My setup is as you describe where I hide SD duplicates, and I use autorecord searches all the time and have never had the problem you describe. It has never recorded off of a hidden SD channel - only the HD one.

If you are having this problem, though, you should explore adding categories to searches. For example, choose the High-Def category, and for sure the DVR will skip SD channels.


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## su_A_ve (Sep 27, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> I don't see CIG as a huge issue - I setup my favorites list once and was done with it. To each his own. Best of luck with cable.


I bought a new car, but the engine doesn't run. So I just push it wherever I need to go. I save gas too!

CIG never worked on the DTivo's... I believe it's on purpose. Forces you to find a show on a channel so you then say 'oh, I have to subscribe to that'...


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## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

Whatever happened to the manually adding/removing channels so we could take of this problem on our own? I thought it was brought up as a temporary solution?
ie on the Directivo boxes you could manually add/remove channels in your list and when you did the autorecord it only recorded from those channels.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

That solution has never been part of the planned implentation.


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## bentbiker (Jun 28, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> About 2 months ago I ran a thread asking for reports of all CIG issues and I got a very consistent response. This response went straight to the people at DIRECTV who are in charge of implementing CIG.
> 
> At this point our friends at DIRECTV know there are issues and are working to implement fixes. At some point I will get a status report on that but for now, they understand there's an issue, and they're working on it.


Assuming this to be true, why is it that the information to which you are privy isn't being shared with other depts within DTV. Why do the supervisor of their Tech Suppt dept as well as all their cust svc reps repeatedly say that there is no such effort in place and I was mistakenly informed that there was 10 months ago? Again, they *insist* that the system is working exactly as it is intended. I would love to have the name of even *one* person within all of DTV who will admit to the problem and an effort to fix it at this point.

Again, I suggest that instead of complaining to each other here, we should be complaining to DTV directly. Most people posting here have indicated that they haven't spoken directly with DTV about this in many months. If their monthly logs of problem reports showed more complaints about this problem, perhaps it would be moved up the priority list -- at least to the point where their Tech Suppt acknowledges the problem.


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> That solution has never been part of the planned implentation.


That's no doubt true, but it begs the question: why the hell not?


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> My setup is as you describe where I hide SD duplicates, and I use autorecord searches all the time and have never had the problem you describe. It has never recorded off of a hidden SD channel - only the HD one.


I have a keyword wishlist "KCRA 3 Reports" category "news", so it'll get the latest news whenever it airs. It always records from both the HD channel KCRA and the SD channel SA3. I didnt think of adding an HD subcategory to the search.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I used to think that it couldn't be that hard, then I was lucky enough to get a glimpse at some of the systems involved and, well... it is. There's real transponder mappings, virtual transponder mappings, channel assignments, all in constant flux.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I still agree with you, it's a core feature and should be right. You just have to trust me that even though you'd think it would be a simple thing, letting the receiver know what package you have and limiting channels to that package, like I said before... it isn't.


Then .... don't do it that way. Nobody gives a c*&p about the CIR itself. Let the list have everything possible, for all anyone cares.

DirecTV needs only give us a way to limit searches. *Run the search against whatever CIR -- then filter the search results against a user list.*

Problem solved. Milo had it nailed two years ago.

Again it isn't CIR, it's the search results in languages we cannot read, or the porn shows, or the many versions of NBC or CBS. It's the fact that autorecord is useless and even normal searches are tedious to paw through and have large opportunity for error.

If there are business reasons to keep "push" channels in the search list, then grey out their check boxes in the "Channels to Search" filter list, but let us get rid of the rest.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> That solution has never been part of the planned implentation.


Of course not -- only unworkable solutions are planned.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> CIG should be completely implemented on local channels and channels in the 100s through 300s.
> 
> There are known CIG issues with channels over 300 and specifically with foreign language channels and the Showtime channels.


Stuart,

Thank you for your continued suppor for CIG.

Please tell them that the Chanel I Get Problem is not solved on channels 100 through 300. It is exactly the same problem as always.

Try this. Do a keyword seach for "Olympics" --> Sports-->All. I am betting that with Olympic coverage all over the map, many have done this search recently.

Now click Autorecord and it will Autorecord the Olympics... 

Here are the first few Channels I do not Get that it thinks I get:

406
755
74
259
407
756
82
382
392
696
80
380
390
383
393

It does eventually list the olympics I do get on NBC, USA, etc.

Channels I Get is not a Guide issue. We can set up our own ALL Guide with the channels we really get.

Channels I Get is a Search issue and an Autorecord issue.

Two years after Autorecord was promised, my wife still cannot record her Cubs games. It still gives you channels we don't get instead of the channels we do get.

So we can only record the upcoming Cubs games by running a Cubs keyword search and carefully checking which channels we will actually receive for which games as it varies.

By the way, CIG is also broken on Smithsonian, HDNet, MGM, etc. even in the Guide.

Stuart, please let them know that so far, Channels I Get has not been implemented on any channels that I can see...

Please tell them that Channels I Get is not a Guide problem. It never has been. CIG is a Search and Autorecord problem. Are they just not understanding what we have been asking?

- Craig


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Please tell them that Channels I Get is not a Guide problem. It never has been. CIG is a Search and Autorecord problem. Are they just not understanding what we have been asking?
> 
> - Craig


That is about as succinctly and accurately stated as I have seen.

Thank you Craig.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Ken S said:


> That is about as succinctly and accurately stated as I have seen.
> 
> Thank you Craig.


Since I have nothing to add, but agree completely, put me down as +1.


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## mogulman (Mar 19, 2007)

I totally agree. I can't believe this isn't fixed yet. This was functionality I had in my old Echostar Dishplayer 7100 from eight years ago.


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## cadet502 (Jun 17, 2005)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Please tell them that Channels I Get is not a Guide problem. It never has been. CIG is a Search and Autorecord problem. Are they just not understanding what we have been asking?
> 
> - Craig


+1

And please don't anyone tell me to use boolean searches to limit channels, most often, I'm doing a search because I don't know what channel the show might be on.

.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

How about the new HD channels? Are they properly reporting as channels you get (or don't?)


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

I'm sure someone has mentioned this before, but I'll suggest it anyway. What's wrong with allowing a choice for the user to base search and autorecord functions to a favorites list?

This way, a favorites list could be manually set up to contain all channels that I *really do* get. If the search were allowed (as an option) to search only favorites (or even one particular favorites) list, then would that not solve the problem? It wouldn't catch anything new, but it would avoid so many false positives.

If the actual CIG were that easy, it would have been done long ago. In the mean time is the idea presented above a short term compromise, or is it a complete waste of time and coding effort?


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## Wrangler3 (Jun 27, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> How about the new HD channels? Are they properly reporting as channels you get (or don't?)


IIRC from last Thursday, CIG showed the new HD channels on my receiver.


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## 00derek (Mar 16, 2008)

hasan said:


> I'm sure someone has mentioned this before, but I'll suggest it anyway. What's wrong with allowing a choice for the user to base search and autorecord functions to a favorites list?
> 
> This way, a favorites list could be manually set up to contain all channels that I *really do* get. If the search were allowed (as an option) to search only favorites (or even one particular favorites) list, then would that not solve the problem? It wouldn't catch anything new, but it would avoid so many false positives.
> 
> If the actual CIG were that easy, it would have been done long ago. In the mean time is the idea presented above a short term compromise, or is it a complete waste of time and coding effort?


"*If the actual CIG were that easy, it would have been done long ago*". It may not be easy, but it worked on my Series One TiVo eight years ago - keyword search was limited to "Channels I receive". Anyway, I don't think it is particularly difficult - look at what this machine does right; from the technology of 10 years ago it's amazing what we have now. The problem seems to be that Directv does not really respond to feedback from its customers - except when they cancel.

I *do *like your idea of adding a filter to the search, to check a custom channel list


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

00derek said:


> "*If the actual CIG were that easy, it would have been done long ago*". It may not be easy, but it worked on my Series One TiVo eight years ago - keyword search was limited to "Channels I receive". Anyway, I don't think it is particularly difficult - look at what this machine does right; from the technology of 10 years ago it's amazing what we have now. The problem seems to be that Directv does not really respond to feedback from its customers - except when they cancel.
> 
> I *do *like your idea of adding a filter to the search, to check a custom channel list


Actually, they have been listening, and making changes to the HR2x series.

See here for a list of customer suggestions that have been fixed/added.

Scroll to bottom to see 'Completed' list.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm still trying to figure out how the receiver knows all the channels I'm authorized to watch, it can tell me when I try to explicitly record something that the channel is or isnt authorized, but its rocket science to limit searches and autorecords to channels i'm authorized for.

If I call directv or go to their web site and add or remove a channel/package, my receiver almost immediately knows this. And any stored content on any channels I've removed is immediately no longer viewable.

PPV content change to limit the shows to 24 hours of viewing went in pretty quick and smooth. But set up a recording for your local sports team to only record on the channels you actually get? Way too complicated.

Maybe I missed it but what was the complication with just giving us a channel list with check boxes next to them and let us choose our own 'channels I receive'? There are about 100 channels I dont subscribe to. Another 100 I'll never, ever in a million years watch. I'll never in five million years pay $4 for a movie I can only see for 24 hours. I dont need the 75 test channels, alt channels and directv infomercial channels.

It'd be awful nice to flip through the guide or go through an autorecord lists results and not have to grind through hundreds of channels or results on channels I'll never, ever watch. Its very cumbersome.


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## mogulman (Mar 19, 2007)

t_h said:


> It'd be awful nice to flip through the guide or go through an autorecord lists results and not have to grind through hundreds of channels or results on channels I'll never, ever watch. Its very cumbersome.


I know.. Just stop screwing around with CIG and make the Channels I Get list a custom list that we can modify ourselves. Then use this for searchs/recording. Seems simply enough.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

00derek said:


> "*If the actual CIG were that easy, it would have been done long ago*". It may not be easy, but it worked on my Series One TiVo eight years ago - keyword search was limited to "Channels I receive". Anyway, I don't think it is particularly difficult - look at what this machine does right; from the technology of 10 years ago it's amazing what we have now. The problem seems to be that Directv does not really respond to feedback from its customers - except when they cancel.
> 
> I *do *like your idea of adding a filter to the search, to check a custom channel list


Tivo did not work the same as the all inclusive CIG feature that is being used today. They are totally different.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> I have no kids in the house, and am a strong supporter of freedom of choice regarding adult entertainment options. It's everybody's right to decide what they do (or don't) watch in their own home.
> 
> However, even I am dismayed by the problem with the way the search function works, and am sympathetic to those who are offended by the titles returned by the search function. I would normally tell them not to watch, but that is really not an option when a routine search for "Debbie...." gets you "Debbie does Dallas," or much worse.
> 
> ...


I guess someone got it.On my R22 tried to search for that title with Parental Controls Locked the search letters came out DE8.  :lol:


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Tivo did not work the same as the all inclusive CIG feature that is being used today. They are totally different.


The tivo method was pretty straightforward. I spent 5 minutes when setting one up going through the channel list and deselecting what I didnt get or didnt want. When a new channel was added or one moved, it was automatically turned on. Once a year or so I went through and turned off any new channels that had come up that I didnt want.

All searches, guide lookups, autorecord wishlists and everything else used that list.

I did always wish that tivo would offer a "fast select" option where you could say that you had 'directv platinum' and it'd select just the channels included in that package, and then let you tailor it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

t_h said:


> The tivo method was pretty straightforward. I spent 5 minutes when setting one up going through the channel list and deselecting what I didnt get or didnt want. When a new channel was added or one moved, it was automatically turned on. Once a year or so I went through and turned off any new channels that had come up that I didnt want.
> 
> All searches, guide lookups, autorecord wishlists and everything else used that list.
> 
> I did always wish that tivo would offer a "fast select" option where you could say that you had 'directv platinum' and it'd select just the channels included in that package, and then let you tailor it.


Exactly... You had to do it manually... The CIG from Directv in all their boxes today are being set up so that the channels are denoted as active or not based on your subscription, and not what you tell the box. Entirely different areans...

The key is there are a couple channels that still haven't been properly added to that mix, but they are getting closer and closer to getting it fixed. I think its obvious they are taking the approach of they would rather error in leaving a channel listed as being recorded than turn a channel off when it shouldn't be... and when you consider they literally have thousands of channels to program for this functionality, it makes since why it is taking time... (every single LIL HD or SD has to be programmed in as well)


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Yes, and should they ever accomplish this "Herculean" task it will still not work with Search or ARSL. They still will deem everyone receives every PPV and because of other bugs..every porn channel in the 590s.
So, what will their customers end up with?



inkahauts said:


> Exactly... You had to do it manually... The CIG from Directv in all their boxes today are being set up so that the channels are denoted as active or not based on your subscription, and not what you tell the box. Entirely different areans...
> 
> The key is there are a couple channels that still haven't been properly added to that mix, but they are getting closer and closer to getting it fixed. I think its obvious they are taking the approach of they would rather error in leaving a channel listed as being recorded than turn a channel off when it shouldn't be... and when you consider they literally have thousands of channels to program for this functionality, it makes since why it is taking time... (every single LIL HD or SD has to be programmed in as well)


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

right now I'd be glad if they would just clip the HDextra channels that still show all the time...


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Exactly... You had to do it manually... The CIG from Directv in all their boxes today are being set up so that the channels are denoted as active or not based on your subscription, and not what you tell the box. Entirely different areans...
> 
> The key is there are a couple channels that still haven't been properly added to that mix, but they are getting closer and closer to getting it fixed. I think its obvious they are taking the approach of they would rather error in leaving a channel listed as being recorded than turn a channel off when it shouldn't be... and when you consider they literally have thousands of channels to program for this functionality, it makes since why it is taking time... (every single LIL HD or SD has to be programmed in as well)


Sure. But I dont want the PPV channels, shopping channels, game show channels, game channels, channels with shows from 30+ years ago and the rest of the stuff I dont want to clutter up my guide or have autorecorded from.

Unfortunately, Directv will make sure I have EVERY channel they've stuffed into a 'subscription' will show up, especially the ones that they might make money on. Which I'll never use.

Its a bit annoying to do a movie search for a category of movies and then have to page down through 15 pages of PPV movies, movies on the HD extra package that I dont get, and some premium channels I dont get, just to get to what I am subscribed to and want to look for?

I found the tivo method neither complicated or onerous. Whats the dilemma with autopopulating the list with the subscribed channels and letting me turn off the ones I dont want from the guide or autorecords?

Except for the part where that'd be what I wanted rather than directv?


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

I believe the problem at hand for posters is the attitude from DirecTV regarding the issue.

I suspect the reasons it hasn’t been fixed concerns money – it always does.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Folks, 

I'd appreciate if we focussed more on the real issue, missing channels, as opposed to the whys and wherefores. That's been done already. We have a commitment from our friends at DIRECTV to try to make the system as good as possible, but they have to know where the holes are.


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## mpoyner (Aug 17, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> We have a commitment from our friends at DIRECTV to try to make the system as good as possible, but they have to know where the holes are.


Until they agree to have a list of channels that we can check "yes" or "no" to, and then they do searches and autorecords from THAT list, this will NEVER work to the satisfaction of most of us. If they ever get the CIG list to work to the specs that they are apparently setting for themselves, it still WILL NOT work the way most of us want it to. Why can't they understand this? I know that I technically "get" the Green Channel in HD, but I don't ever want to record anything from it, and frankly I would like to "uncheck" it from the list of channels I get. That will never be allowed, based on how they want it to work.

The thing is, this is NOT hard, no matter what they keep telling you in response. They already have it set up to base all searches and autorecords from the CIG list, so why can't they instead base them on a favorites list, or user-created CIG list? The answer is that they CAN do this RIGHT NOW. Anyone who has ever coded anything knows this to be true. There is only one possible explanation for why they will not allow this and that is that they...

wait for it....

JUST DON'T CARE.

At least not enough that it's a priority for their programmers.

I think the engineers at DirecTV need to read this cautionary tale about the disconnect between interface/design and backend programming: http://gizmodo.com/5038839/motorola-insider-blame-game-engineers-shoved-designers-aside

EASE OF USE trumps COOL FEATURES every time. Why can't some engineers understand this basic concept of consumer design??


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## mpoyner (Aug 17, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> We have a commitment from our friends at DIRECTV to try to make the system as good as possible, but they have to know where the holes are.


BTW, I know that you're just reporting what they tell you, and so i'm not being argumentative with you. I guess I'm letting off steam, and also wishing that one of them would read our posts in here and actually take them to heart.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

t_h said:


> Sure. But I dont want the PPV channels, shopping channels, game show channels, game channels, channels with shows from 30+ years ago and the rest of the stuff I dont want to clutter up my guide or have autorecorded from.
> 
> Unfortunately, Directv will make sure I have EVERY channel they've stuffed into a 'subscription' will show up, especially the ones that they might make money on. Which I'll never use.
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong, I hate the fact that it fails to work. I mitigate the problem by using a keyword search:

HD CCHAN 501 599
Category: Movies

HD NNOT PPV
Category: Movies

The first results in all HD movies on the premium channels (as long as it is correctly tagged as HD by the channel). The second pulls in all HD movies that aren't PPV. I wish there was a place in the programming data that would indicate if commercials were included. This would be close to the perfect search for me.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

They do read, and they have taken it to heart. It's just, to a certain extent you are trying to change a tire on a car in motion, it's not as easy as all that.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Channels I Get is not a Guide issue. We can set up our own ALL Guide with the channels we really get.


Yes, it is a guide issue as well. There is no handy list available that tells you what exact channels you receive to make it easy to set up your own guide. You ultimately have to tune to the ones you aren't sure about to see if you get them. It's a very cumbersome process.


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## mogulman (Mar 19, 2007)

mpoyner said:


> Until they agree to have a list of channels that we can check "yes" or "no" to, and then they do searches and autorecords from THAT list, this will NEVER work to the satisfaction of most of us. If they ever get the CIG list to work to the specs that they are apparently setting for themselves, it still WILL NOT work the way most of us want it to. Why can't they understand this? I know that I technically "get" the Green Channel in HD, but I don't ever want to record anything from it, and frankly I would like to "uncheck" it from the list of channels I get. That will never be allowed, based on how they want it to work.
> 
> The thing is, this is NOT hard, no matter what they keep telling you in response. They already have it set up to base all searches and autorecords from the CIG list, so why can't they instead base them on a favorites list, or user-created CIG list? The answer is that they CAN do this RIGHT NOW. Anyone who has ever coded anything knows this to be true. There is only one possible explanation for why they will not allow this and that is that they...
> 
> ...


Maybe someone should take a poll (as if it hasn't probably been done 100x already)... To see if anyone really cares about CIG. It hasn't worked for so long as is pretty useless. Just allow recording and searches to be based on a favorite list (Channels I Want).


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

mogulman said:


> Maybe someone should take a poll (as if it hasn't probably been done 100x already)... To see if anyone really cares about CIG. It hasn't worked for so long as is pretty useless. Just allow recording and searches to be based on a favorite list (Channels I Want).


I sure would like to see a meaningful response to this proposal. It makes perfect sense, and they could dump the channels I get entirely (being it is difficult). At least adopt (C)hannels (I) (W)ant as an alternate solution. There is absolutely no case against it.

CIG has too many pitfalls, and in the end, will NOT do what I want. Search my favorites or my own channel listing. Simple, straightforward, and customized to each *individual's* taste, and not determined by the programming package (you could choose to display returns on a search that include channels you don't get!), thus perhaps motivating you to get that channel. (this is kind of a reverse logic to "they are forcing these meaningless searches on us, so we will subscribe" train of thought)

Quite frankly, the entire CIG goal seems misguided to me. Is there really ANYONE who is interested in EVERY channel they get? Don't we all have some channels we get that we EXCLUDE from our favorites list? I certainly do.

After reading all this discussion about CIG and its "holes", I've come to the conclusion that we are doing nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. CIG is a flawed concept from the get go. There is a BIG difference between CIG and CIW....as the prior poster noted. He's exactly right. (C)hannels (I) (W)ant is useful and precise, while CIG is both currently non-functional, and worse, likely to be useless, as far as I can see, but perhaps I'm myopic.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

mpoyner said:


> I think the engineers at DirecTV need to read this cautionary tale about the disconnect between interface/design and backend programming: http://gizmodo.com/5038839/motorola-insider-blame-game-engineers-shoved-designers-aside
> 
> EASE OF USE trumps COOL FEATURES every time. Why can't some engineers understand this basic concept of consumer design??


I believe there was little to no design for the customer done when the HR series was introduced. Too many obvious poor decisions were made up front, no DLB, no skip-to-tick, the double push guide, 50 SL limit, CIG etc, etc.

None of those were bugs, they were just very poor design choices that a basic customer CTQ analysis would have picked up. While some of those have been fixed but we are still living with what I consider the most agregious issues.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> How about the new HD channels? Are they properly reporting as channels you get (or don't?)


_Edit Settings -> Ch's I Get_ indicates I get these new channels (but I don't):
286 -- Planet Green HD
649 -- SportSouth HD
The rest of the new channels are reported correctly.

_BTW, using numbers to jump to a channel in Ch's I Get_ _doesn't always work:_
286 jumps to 668
600 jumps to 610
622 jumps to 668
633 jumps to 668
649 jumps to 668
686 doesn't jump

_Interestingly, 610 and 668 are the only two 6xx channels in my Custom lists; they're in both Custom 1 and Custom 2._


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> _*We're*_ currently testing out new modifiers for the search function that will allow you to limit it to a channel range. That should help. Please see our Cutting Edge forum for more details.


A very interesting post -- although it is pretty old, dating from 03-26-08. As a relative newbie (40 days now with the HR21) I didn't know that any DirecTV employees were posting to DBSTalk, nor did I think they would announce who they worked for. But I'm very glad that I was wrong on both counts. Pray tell, who else among DBSTalk's members works for D*?

About limiting searches to a channel range, I respectfully submit that that won't cut it, because of the recently added 50-character limit on Boolean searches. Instead, please consider implementing one of the many suggestions based on using a user-provided list of channels, such as Custom 1 or 2, to limit searches. As far as I'm concerned, it would be OK if a list of channels were to be applied globally, to all searches. Others might want more granularity.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I do not work for DIRECTV. When I say "We're", I mean our members in the Cutting Edge forum. As far as DIRECTV employees posting here, I can't think of any off the top of my head who have come out and announced where they work. That being said, Mr. Syzygy, it may be that _you_ work for DIRECTV.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> About limiting searches to a channel range, I respectfully submit that that won't cut it, because of the recently added 50-character limit on Boolean searches. Instead, please consider implementing one of the many suggestions based on using a user-provided list of channels, such as Custom 1 or 2, to limit searches. As far as I'm concerned, it would be OK if a list of channels were to be applied globally, to all searches. Others might want more granularity.


Don't knock it before you try it! It "cuts it" just fine ...

I have several ARSL using CCHAN to record programs on the premium channels and they work flawlessly. Ex:

TUDORS CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
ENTOURAGE CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
FLIGHT OF THE CONCHORDS CCHAN 501 550
WEEDS CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
TRUE BLOOD CCHAN 501 550 & HIGH-DEF
Etc.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Yeah, Drew, they work flawlessly for _you _because you subscribe to *all *the premium channels. I have HBO & SHO (currently free for me) but not Starz! -- and I think there are a lot of subscribers like me. (Oops, I just noticed that none of your examples are for _movies_; all are for series which appear on only one contiguous group of channels, so the channel ranges could be much smaller -- or they could be omitted.)

BTW, I find it interesting that you included the non-HD channels FLIX, SUND and IFC but excluded HDNM (552).

I think this dialogue reinforces my request for allowing a user-provided list of channels, as so many have already requested.

I want to search for movies on HBO and SHO while excluding MAX (512..514++) and Starz! (518..533++). I'd need to say something like "CCHAN 501..511 537..545" but that's not possible.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

This is a discussion of Channels I Get issues, not autorecords. Thank you.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Sorry Stuart. I was just trying to point out that even though CIG may not be fully resolved, there are workarounds in the DVR to bypass recordings being made on channels the user can't receive, and until CIG is finally and firmly resolved, we have options that I am grateful for. (Please delete this if it's inappropriate .)


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## Crow159 (May 23, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> This is a discussion of Channels I Get issues, not autorecords. Thank you.


Stuart, with all due respect (I really mean this), this is the problem right here. "Channels I get" IS an autorecord problem. It is a search problem also.

When I set up an autorecord, I want to automatically record from channels that I get. Not from the DNS channels, premium, porn, and other channels that I do not get. I've used the boolean logic. It's alright, but my parents would not understand it to search that way. When I've used it, it seems to take me about 20 minutes to find the exact logic to block out the channels I don't get or want and to narrow down the search to something usable.

For the average user, it would be so much easier to only show results from the channels you really receive.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Crow159 said:


> Stuart, with all due respect (I really mean this), this is the problem right here. "Channels I get" IS an autorecord problem. It is a search problem also.
> 
> When I set up an autorecord, I want to automatically record from channels that I get. Not from the DNS channels, premium, porn, and other channels that I do not get. I've used the boolean logic. It's alright, but my parents would not understand it to search that way. When I've used it, it seems to take me about 20 minutes to find the exact logic to block out the channels I don't get or want and to narrow down the search to something usable.
> 
> For the average user, it would be so much easier to only show results from the channels you really receive.


Crow,

It would be...but for whatever reason DirecTV believes it is in their best interest to market inappropriate and/or unwanted content to their customers and worse...their customer's children. Since we know they read this forum and this has been reported for years it is likely that it won't be changing.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Ken S said:


> ...but for whatever reason DirecTV believes it is in their best interest to market inappropriate and/or unwanted content to their customers and worse...their customer's children. Since we know they read this forum and this has been reported for years it is likely that it won't be changing.


Well put! But maybe the landscape has changed now with the upcoming competition from TiVo -- or *will TiVo let D* force them to be just as bad*?


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## jrcrum (Jan 30, 2007)

I read a lot of the posts in this thread but not all of them, so excuse me if someone has already said this, but I haven't seen anyone mention this. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to write one post on this topic.

I'm a professional software developer, and I just don't see how it could be that hard to fix CIG. The software system at D* obviously know what channels I get, because it enables those channels to work with my receivers. That is, for each channel that I get, it has to turn on that channel in my receiver. And I never seem to have problems receiving channels I'm not subscribing to, or not receiving channels that I subscribe to.

I kind of suspect that they don't really want to fix CIG. Because if they do, then we won't see all of the channels we are missing, and maybe they look at that as a perverted marketing tactic. Really perverted given all the crap we see in the guide from the porn channels.

If I were responsible for this system, I would expect to be fired if I couldn't fix a simple problem like CIG!:nono:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

jrcrum said:


> I read a lot of the posts in this thread but not all of them, so excuse me if someone has already said this, but I haven't seen anyone mention this. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to write one post on this topic.
> 
> I'm a professional software developer, and I just don't see how it could be that hard to fix CIG. The software system at D* obviously know what channels I get, because it enables those channels to work with my receivers. That is, for each channel that I get, it has to turn on that channel in my receiver. And I never seem to have problems receiving channels I'm not subscribing to, or not receiving channels that I subscribe to.
> 
> ...


Not so simple when you consinder there are literally over 3000 channels, at a minumum they have to deal with, and how many packages, like 300? You have to remember, every channel has to be encoded properly for every package they have ever had... They obviously had a problem when they first installed it, and now they are fixing it, and they are getting closer.... they don't have many left... and you figure they have to do each one by hand...


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

It seems very little has changed since we started listing the CIG errors...

My Setup
• $50.99 *Total Choice* package
•• $5.99 DirecTV DVR Service
•• $0.00 HBO (6 months free)
•• $0.00 SHO (3 months free)
•• $0.00 Courtesy HD Channels
•• $9.99 HD Access

Channels D* Thinks I Don't Get -- but I Might (when an event occurs)
• 444-1 MLSHD
• 445 MLS
• 445-1 MLSHD
• 446 MLS
• 446-1 MLSHD
• 447 MLS
• 447-1 MLSHD
• 448 MLS
• 449 MLS
• 633 FSS FSN South Plus Alternate

Channels D* Thinks I Get -- but I Don't
• 230 DIY Do It Yourself Network
• 235 STYL Style
• 258 FMC Fox Movie Channel
• 271 Hint History International
• 272 LOGO Logo (MTV for GLBT)
• 274 OVTV Ovation TV
• 285 ID Investigation Discovery
• 286 PLGN Planet Green (Discovery)
• 287 MILT Military Channel
• 295 SPRT PBS Kids Sprout
• 298 BOOM Boomerang
• 302 NKTN Nicktoons
• 326 GAC Great American Country
• 330 BETJ BET Jazz
• 332 PLDAHD Palladia 
• 337 VH1C VH1 Classic
• 433 FSTV Foot's Cool
• 480 DTV
• 481 DTV
• 482 DTV
• 483 DTV
• 488 DTV
• 490 DTV
• 491 DTV
• 492 DTV
• 493 DTV
• 494 DTV
• 500 DTV
• 586 PPV Adult PPV
• 587 PPV Para Todos PPV Movies 
• 589 PPV Adult PPV
• 591 PBTV
• 595 REAL
• 596 JUCY
• 597 FRSH
• 598 SEXX
• 599 HUST Hustler TV / Here *
• 613 CBSCHD CBS College Sports HD
• 616 MTN Mountain Network
• 649 SSHD SportSouth HD


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## Crow159 (May 23, 2007)

Maybe I'm coming from this at the wrong angle.

What is the purpose of Channels I Get if it is not about search and autorecord?

Is it to block the channels in the guide? If it is, we can already do that by the custom channel lists.

Directv is spending a lot of time and energy on something that, if it is not about search and autorecord, has no actual purpose that I can see. Please, someone enlighten me as to the purpose of CIG.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I see where you're coming from, but this discussion is not about whether search and autorecord fails to properly interpret CIG data, it's whether that data is accurate.


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## Crow159 (May 23, 2007)

Stuart, What do they want the data to do? I understand that they want it accurate, but what are they going to use it for?

I think this is where people, myself included, are getting confused. If they are not going to apply the data to search and autorecord, in a way the limits the searches to what we get in our package, then what will CIG be used for?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

When the CIG system is totally accurate, then what's been discussed — not promised, discussed — is using some way of showing items you don't get in a different color or tint in the search results screen, similar to how the guide does it. 

I don't know if that's still on the table but I know it would satisfy a lot of people. I understand it wouldn't satisfy everyone but it would be an improvement.


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## Crow159 (May 23, 2007)

Thanks for the answer Stuart.

Actually, I could see a way for Directv to use their application of CIG and make everyone happy. After enabling CIG in the discussed method, if they would include a boolean logic application such as "CIG" that could then filter out the tinted selections would make most people happy. Just as Boolean logic now can limit our searches by channel, title, and name, it could also filter by CIG.

Limiting searches by CIG would at least stop the DNS, porn, and international channels from being included in the search results and autorecord.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Crow159 said:


> Limiting searches by CIG would at least stop the DNS, porn, and international channels from being included in the search results and autorecord.


*"Display only the channels that are in your current subscription package in SEARCH results"* is the second most-requested item by the 978 folks who voted on the current Wish List, and has been in the "top 5" for as long as I can remember, dating back well over a year.

I could be wrong, but it occurs to me that the DirecTV marketing folks want to tempt you with channels you don't subscribe to, hoping you'll be incented to upgrade your programming package. If so, it's understandable, but irksome. I much preferred the way it was handled on the DirecTiVo, where you could not only edit your CIG list at will, but also confine SEARCH results to only those channels.

Just my .02. /steve


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## jrcrum (Jan 30, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Not so simple when you consinder there are literally over 3000 channels, at a minumum they have to deal with, and how many packages, like 300? You have to remember, every channel has to be encoded properly for every package they have ever had... They obviously had a problem when they first installed it, and now they are fixing it, and they are getting closer.... they don't have many left... and you figure they have to do each one by hand...


Either I am not understanding you, or you are missing my point, which is that the D* system already has the capability to generate a list of the channels I get that is completely accurate, because that's what it uses to permit me to access those channels. When I try to access a channel that I don't subscribe to, I get the typical message that lets me know it's not in my subscription. So to get a list of channels that I am permitted to get should be trivial, and generating a directory listing of those channels should be easy to do. By the same token, filtering searches on that list should be similarly easy. This is all done by a computer, and 3000 channels, or 3,000,000, should be no problem at all with a little programming.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Not so simple when you consinder there are literally over 3000 channels, at a minumum they have to deal with, and how many packages, like 300? You have to remember, every channel has to be encoded properly for every package they have ever had... They obviously had a problem when they first installed it, and now they are fixing it, and they are getting closer.... they don't have many left... and you figure they have to do each one by hand...


that aint gonna fly & u shouldnt be sellin it.


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## jrcrum (Jan 30, 2007)

jrcrum said:


> Either I am not understanding you, or you are missing my point, which is that the D* system already has the capability to generate a list of the channels I get that is completely accurate, because that's what it uses to permit me to access those channels. When I try to access a channel that I don't subscribe to, I get the typical message that lets me know it's not in my subscription. So to get a list of channels that I am permitted to get should be trivial, and generating a directory listing of those channels should be easy to do. By the same token, filtering searches on that list should be similarly easy. This is all done by a computer, and 3000 channels, or 3,000,000, should be no problem at all with a little programming.


I want to add, if it takes this long to fix CIG, it's got to be either intentional, or their software system is a horrible mess, or their software developers are totally incompetent. Given that they have been able to quickly fix many other problems, and to add a number of features that usually work, I can only deduce that it's number 1 -- intentional, to try to entice us to upgrade to other packages.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

jrcrum said:


> I want to add, if it takes this long to fix CIG, it's got to be either intentional, or their software system is a horrible mess, or their software developers are totally incompetent. Given that they have been able to quickly fix many other problems, and to add a number of features that usually work, I can only deduce that it's number 1 -- intentional, to try to entice us to upgrade to other packages.


To fix any bug requires the company having a desire to fix it and then be willing to expend the resources to get it done. I believe they can do it...but they don't care to do it...or they just don't care.

Please stop with the "it's an incredibly difficult technical project"...that's just nonsense. This is a problem that lies elsewhere.


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## jrcrum (Jan 30, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Please stop with the "it's an incredibly difficult technical project"...that's just nonsense. This is a problem that lies elsewhere.


Exactly.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Ken S said:


> To fix any bug requires the company having a desire to fix it and then be willing to expend the resources to get it done. I believe they can do it...but they don't care to do it...or they just don't care.
> 
> Please stop with the "it's an incredibly difficult technical project"...that's just nonsense. This is a problem that lies elsewhere.


There is one simple reason I think this is harder than we realize... I am not saying its proof, but there is precedence of making guide data interact properly being a nightmare. Several years ago when we were all jumping up and down with the launch of the DTC-100 so we could get HD Directv channels and OTA ATSC channels, at the same time, the number one complaint was that you basically had to change imputs on the boxes and use different guides... One for Sat, one for OTA... The first box that had both those guide integrated came out over 1 year later than planned because they had such a hard time getting the two guides to intermix and show up in one guide... SO if someone can explain to me what the difference is between that issue and todays, I'd greatly appreciate it, because to me, they are in the same realm....

I wosh they would put 100 people on this till it got fixed, but I don't know that that would speed up the process... Because we don't know the exact issue.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

jrcrum said:


> Either I am not understanding you, or you are missing my point, which is that the D* system already has the capability to generate a list of the channels I get that is completely accurate, because that's what it uses to permit me to access those channels. When I try to access a channel that I don't subscribe to, I get the typical message that lets me know it's not in my subscription. So to get a list of channels that I am permitted to get should be trivial, and generating a directory listing of those channels should be easy to do. By the same token, filtering searches on that list should be similarly easy. This is all done by a computer, and 3000 channels, or 3,000,000, should be no problem at all with a little programming.


I don't think the authorization of channels and the guide interact with each other in any way inside our boxes.... I'm not saying they shouldn't and that would make this all easy, but I don't think they have anything to do with each other, and operate on two separate systems.... Now maybe the real problem is that they are trying to get to the point where thoes two systems do interact, but I'm not to sure about that....


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> There is one simple reason I think this is harder than we realize... I am not saying its proof, but there is precedence of making guide data interact properly being a nightmare. Several years ago when we were all jumping up and down with the launch of the DTC-100 so we could get HD Directv channels and OTA ATSC channels, at the same time, the number one complaint was that you basically had to change imputs on the boxes and use different guides... One for Sat, one for OTA... The first box that had both those guide integrated came out over 1 year later than planned because they had such a hard time getting the two guides to intermix and show up in one guide... SO if someone can explain to me what the difference is between that issue and todays, I'd greatly appreciate it, because to me, they are in the same realm....
> 
> I wosh they would put 100 people on this till it got fixed, but I don't know that that would speed up the process... Because we don't know the exact issue.


Forget 100 people...they should start by putting one person on it which would be an increase over what they have dedicated to this task now. As for your issue my guess is relates to the amount of resources DirecTV was willing to expend on fixing that problem as well.

It's quite clear they don't care about this issue. In some ways they may be right. If you read what Stuart is saying even if CIG is ever fixed it won't be of much use as it won't apply to searches or ARSL. So, why have it?


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

jrcrum said:


> Either I am not understanding you, or you are missing my point, which is that the D* system already has the capability to generate a list of the channels I get that is completely accurate, because that's what it uses to permit me to access those channels. When I try to access a channel that I don't subscribe to, I get the typical message that lets me know it's not in my subscription. So to get a list of channels that I am permitted to get should be trivial, and generating a directory listing of those channels should be easy to do. By the same token, filtering searches on that list should be similarly easy. This is all done by a computer, and 3000 channels, or 3,000,000, should be no problem at all with a little programming.


This certainly has to be true. As such, what's the deal with the rumor that DirecTv actually had to change the broadcast signal such that "channels I get" (CIG) would be easier to implement.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Forget 100 people...they should start by putting one person on it which would be an increase over what they have dedicated to this task now. As for your issue my guess is relates to the amount of resources DirecTV was willing to expend on fixing that problem as well.
> 
> It's quite clear they don't care about this issue. In some ways they may be right. If you read what Stuart is saying even if CIG is ever fixed it won't be of much use as it won't apply to searches or ARSL. So, why have it?


It already does apply to ARSL... My units have not recorded one thing from any channel that is not in my CIG... This is a much bigger deal to me than all shows from any channel showing up when doing a search... I don't do searches to look for stuff to watch, I do them to create ARSLs....

And I agree... One person doing nothing but that would probably be good too... Heck, hire me! I'll do it!!!!

In terms of the parental aspect, the Parental controls of hiding channels should be observed completely, and I don't see any reason they can't get that to work the same way they do with hiding SD duplicates. When that feature is on and working (if and when), there is no way to access those channels at all... its like they don't exsist (the way I see it should be implemented), so that is the one thing that in my opinion should always be used to filter CIG... That would solve a lot of issues, because it would also give us a back door way of getting rid of channels we never use....


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> [...]In terms of the parental aspect, the Parental controls of hiding channels should be observed completely, and I don't see any reason they can't get that to work the same way they do with hiding SD duplicates. When that feature is on and working (if and when), there is no way to access those channels at all... its like they don't exsist (the way I see it should be implemented), so that is the one thing that in my opinion should always be used to filter CIG...[...]


+1. The last thing DirecTV should ever be perceived as is "family unfriendly", IMO, especially since their reach extends to virtually every demographic in the continental US. /steve


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

The recent update wacked my custom list so I had to rebuild it from scratch. I hadn't been in for a while and noticed that I could preload the list with CIG. Hooray, they finally fixed it!

Hmm, I didn't realize I got all those channels.... Try a few and I don't get them.  

When I got my first HR20, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD weren't even widely available. Since then HDDVD has lost the HD disk war and I just bought a 3rd generation Blu-Ray player.

So, since Directv released their HD DVR a new technology has evolved several generations, and the CIG issue hasn't been fixed. WTF is the deal with this incompetence!?!

Directv - Give it up - It's painfully obvious you just don't get it. Bring Tivo back immediately. They have the technology and know how to build a DVR. You have proven you don't!


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## qprhooligan (Dec 5, 2007)

I wish they would fix the CIG too. The problem I have with using a custom setup is when they move a channel or add a channel, if it goes into a slot I don't have checked I will not see it when I go to the guide. This happens more often then you might think.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

qprhooligan said:


> I wish they would fix the CIG too. The problem I have with using a custom setup is when they move a channel or add a channel, if it goes into a slot I don't have checked I will not see it when I go to the guide. This happens more often then you might think.


On the HR10 DirecTiVo's, I believe when a new channel was added it automatically went into all your lists by default, so you had to remove it if you didn't want it.

I'm not sure which method I prefer. Having to manually add channels I hear about, or deleting channels that may be put in without my knowledge. :scratchin:

I suppose for parental control purposes, some households would not want R-Rated channels automatically added to their custom lists, so maybe DirecTV is taking the "safe" approach in this case, for which I don't blame them.

Just my .02. /steve


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Bizarroterl said:


> Directv - Give it up - It's painfully obvious you just don't get it. Bring Tivo back immediately. They have the technology and know how to build a DVR. You have proven you don't!


My DTivo doesn't have CIG - what am I missing?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dbronstein said:


> My DTivo doesn't have CIG - what am I missing?


It's called _Channels I Receive_ on DirecTiVo's, IIRC. And unlike the HR's, you can edit that list to uncheck channels you don't want to see. /steve


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## JMII (Jan 19, 2008)

Bizarroterl said:


> The recent update wacked my custom list so I had to rebuild it from scratch. I hadn't been in for a while and noticed that I could preload the list with CIG. Hooray, they finally fixed it!
> 
> Hmm, I didn't realize I got all those channels.... Try a few and I don't get them.


Same here. Seems like a pointless "feature" since it clearly doesn't work 

It took me a good 30 minutes of flipping channels to reset my favorites list since half the channels don't have any logos so I don't even know what they are. I assumed this data was saved on the hard drive somewhere but I guess that's not the case. I also assumed that box itself would know which channels are in MY subscription and only show me those. Nope... wrong again, CIG is horribly broken.


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

I could understand if there were other parties involved, but Directv controls the DVR software and they control the content. There is no defense for this.


The DVR already knows what we can receive and what we can't. I don't see posts in this forum stating "Hey, I'm getting channel X, even though I'm not paying for it." You can bet that if customers were receiving channels they weren't paying for, DTV would fix it IMMEDIATELY. 

The reason CIG isn't fixed is either DTV just doesn't give a d*&^ or that they're incompetent.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I write down the Channels and Channel Numbers that I want so when it gets zapped I can more easily go back and check them off rather than try to remember which ones I had.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Bizarroterl said:


> ... The reason CIG isn't fixed is either DTV just doesn't give a d*&^ or that they're incompetent.


Could it be that D* wants all of us to be continually aware of the channels we *could* get but are too cheap to pay for?


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Steve said:


> It's called _Channels I Receive_ on DirecTiVo's, IIRC. And unlike the HR's, you can edit that list to uncheck channels you don't want to see. /steve


Not on my DTivo. It just has a single "Channels List". I have to manually indicate which channels I receive and I can also give a thumbs up to the ones I want on my favorites list. At least D* attempted to do an automated channels I get/receive on the HRs (even though it totally sucks and adds a bunch of channels I don't get). Tivo didn't even try to do it.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dbronstein said:


> Not on my DTivo. It just has a single "Channels List". I have to manually indicate which channels I receive and I can also give a thumbs up to the ones I want on my favorites list. At least D* attempted to do an automated channels I get/receive on the HRs (even though it totally sucks and adds a bunch of channels I don't get). Tivo didn't even try to do it.


Well I haven't used an HR10 since May of '07, but I used TiVo's for 8 years before that, and it used to be called "Channels I Receive". I guess they changed it.  /steve


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Steve said:


> Well I haven't used an HR10 since May of '07, but I used TiVo's for 8 years before that, and it used to be called "Channels I Receive". I guess they changed it.  /steve


They didn't change anything, it's always been like this since I got it 4-5 years ago. It's never had anything close to channels I receive on it. I posted about it when I first got it and I was told that since Tivo made the software there wasn't any way for it to know what channels you subscribe to.


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

richierich said:


> I write down the Channels and Channel Numbers that I want so when it gets zapped I can more easily go back and check them off rather than try to remember which ones I had.


You HAVE to do this as the D* web-site is not up to date with which channels are on what station numbers.

The incompetence is not only in their "programming bugs."


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## MIKE0616 (Dec 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Could it be that D* wants all of us to be continually aware of the channels we *could* get but are too cheap to pay for?


If that's the case, why not just remove it and leave the "add all channels" and be done with it?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dbronstein said:


> They didn't change anything, it's always been like this since I got it 4-5 years ago. It's never had anything close to channels I receive on it. I posted about it when I first got it and I was told that since Tivo made the software there wasn't any way for it to know what channels you subscribe to.


We must be talking about two different things. From the HR10-250 user manual, page 90 (or page 100 of the PDF):

_*"Channel Lists
*
With DIRECTV® service, your HD DVR receives information for all channels available through DIRECTV. You may not subscribe to all of these channels, so to make it easier for you to find and record programs on channels you do receive, you can set up custom channel lists.

*• Channels You Receive.
*
Use the Channels You Receive list to select channels you actually subscribe to, and that reflect your viewing preferences. For example, if you never watch a channel and don't want to record from it, uncheck it on Channels You Receive. Features such as Search by Title and Search Using a WishList look for programs only on channels you have selected in the Channels You Receive list.

*• Favorite Channels.
*
Use the Favorite Channels list for channels you watch frequently.

Include only a few channels in this list, so that you can quickly look at what's coming up on them using the program guide. See page 56 for information on customizing the guide to show your Favorite Channels."_

/steve


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Steve said:


> We must be talking about two different things. From the HR10-250 user manual, page 90 (or page 100 of the PDF):


I think this is the discrepancy. I have a DVR-80, not an HR10. My box has nothing called "Channels I receive". It has a single channels list where I have to manually check the channels I get, it has no ability at all to do it automatically. Then at the same time, I can thumbs up the channels I want to add to my favorites list.

I see in the manual the HR10-250 has the same limitation where it does not populate the channels you receive list automatically either, which proves my original point.

I was replying to Bizarroterl's comment that Tivo does it better. No, Tivo doesn't do channels I get/receive any better than D* does it. Tivo makes no attempt at all to do it.


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

On a Tivo it's known as Channels I Receive. This is a feature on the DirecTivo and the series 3 HDTivos. It works well on the DirecTivo (nearly 10 year old technology), except when Directv breaks it by dropping and readding channels. 

It doesn't autopopulate though. You have to manually set it up. Unlike the HR20, the Tivo then restricts searches to only the channels in that list. With the HR20 you can easily end up with a recording of a channel you don't get (as many have complained about in this forum).


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dbronstein said:


> I see in the manual the HR10-250 has the same limitation where it does not populate the channels you receive list automatically either, which proves my original point.


I noticed that too and was surprised to see the manual say that. IIRC, the channels I received were pre-checked in that list, so it's possible the manual is just out of date. I could be misremembering, tho, so I invite other HR10 users to correct me on that point.  /steve


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Bizarroterl said:


> It doesn't autopopulate though. You have to manually set it up.


That's my point. You can't say "Bring Tivo back immediately. They have the technology" in reference to channels I get/receive when they don't do it at all. You have to manually set the channels you get on both DTivos and HR-2*s. The search issue on the HRs doesn't bother me.


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

dbronstein said:


> That's my point. You can't say "Bring Tivo back immediately. They have the technology" in reference to channels I get/receive when they don't do it at all. You have to manually set the channels you get on both DTivos and HR-2*s. The search issue on the HRs doesn't bother me.


Tivo doesn't autoload them, but they do allow you to set them up (as I stated). You may not use the search, but a lot of users do, and the Tivo solution is definitely superior. And, Tivo isn't misleading its users.


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

Steve said:


> I noticed that too and was surprised to see the manual say that. IIRC, the channels I received were pre-checked in that list, so it's possible the manual is just out of date. I could be misremembering, tho, so I invite other HR10 users to correct me on that point.  /steve


The Tivo will load new channels into the CIR. Probably what's happening is that it is loaded automatically when you install. New channels have a "new channel" flag (IIRC) that causes them to appear. DTV (or the source) will drop a channel and readd it (even though the channel isn't actaually dropped) and it will appear back on the list.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Bizarroterl said:


> The Tivo will load new channels into the CIR. Probably what's happening is that it is loaded automatically when you install. New channels have a "new channel" flag (IIRC) that causes them to appear. DTV (or the source) will drop a channel and readd it (even though the channel isn't actaually dropped) and it will appear back on the list.


Thanks. I do remember that I used to have to remove new channels that I didn't want. IIRC, we even used to get messages about new channels and line-up changes. Does that still happen? /steve


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Bizarroterl said:


> Tivo doesn't autoload them, but they do allow you to set them up (as I stated). You may not use the search, but a lot of users do, and the Tivo solution is definitely superior. And, Tivo isn't misleading its users.


To me, the issue with CIG has always been that it doesn't load the correct channel. I never think about the search issue because it doesn't bother (I realize it is a big issue to some people). So I read your original post about Tivo handling CIG better than the D* boxes to mean that it loads them correctly. I apologize for any misunderstanding.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Bizarroterl said:


> The Tivo will load new channels into the CIR. Probably what's happening is that it is loaded automatically when you install. New channels have a "new channel" flag (IIRC) that causes them to appear. DTV (or the source) will drop a channel and readd it (even though the channel isn't actaually dropped) and it will appear back on the list.


That happens with the HR series as well, strangely not with all new channels, but with PPVs it happens all the time. We don't have any of the 100 - 200 channels in our favorites list, but anytime I look at the lists on any of our 4 machines I'll find a new PPV or PPVHD in that range.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Bizarroterl said:


> The Tivo will load new channels into the CIR. Probably what's happening is that it is loaded automatically when you install. New channels have a "new channel" flag (IIRC) that causes them to appear. DTV (or the source) will drop a channel and readd it (even though the channel isn't actaually dropped) and it will appear back on the list.


Hmmm, I wonder why Directv just happens to drop those channels every day. I wonder if they are being paid to do that so they will keep showing up in hopes that we might be enticed to watch them.

I get rid of them all the time and they keep showing up so now I just look at my Favorite Channels.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

dbronstein said:


> The search issue on the HRs doesn't bother me.


I hear you; you don't do any searching. (Although it's hard to believe that you won't _ever _do any searching.)

But even if one does no searching, I think one ought to take a stand against the HR2x method on principle alone. Consider:

• The list of matches includes (if at all possible) VOD titles, listed first.
• The list is usually much longer than it needs to be because channels you can't get are always included.
*• A long list is very likely to be spontaneously refreshed while you're in it, putting you back at its beginning.* (I remembered this one belatedly.)
• Ironically, the list can be too short because matches more than a couple of days out are often missed.
• Channels are (purposely?) identified only by number, not by name, leading to confusion and extra work.
• Many Autorecords end up being harmful because they waste tuners to record nothing.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

That is why I keep my 2 HR10-250s. I love the Tivo software and Guide where I can easily look for golf by just bring up channel 2, then 5, then 11, etc. to see where the golf is coming on or go to the Search Function which Autorecords alot more precisely.

Can't wait for the New Directivo Unit coming out next Fall!!!


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Syzygy said:


> I hear you; you don't do any searching. (Although it's hard to believe that you won't _ever _do any searching.)
> 
> But even if one does no searching, I think one ought to take a stand against the HR2x method on principle alone. Consider:
> 
> ...


I do search, and I agree this problem needs to be corrected. But I don't consider it to be a "channels I get problem", I consider it to be a "search / autorecord problem." When people post about how CIG doesn't work right, my first thought is that they are referring to the population of the list. That's why it doesn't make sense to me that someone would say Tivo does CIG correctly, because it doesn't (from my point of view). It does search and autorecord correctly.


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

richierich said:


> Hmmm, I wonder why Directv just happens to drop those channels every day. I wonder if they are being paid to do that so they will keep showing up in hopes that we might be enticed to watch them.
> 
> I get rid of them all the time and they keep showing up so now I just look at my Favorite Channels.


In all fairness I couldn't say Directv is the one doing it. It could be the source trying to trick the system to keep their content always appearing or even a technical "glitch". Directv delivers the content and should filter this so the users don't have to continually update their lists over and over.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

dbronstein said:


> ... it doesn't make sense to me that someone would say Tivo does CIG correctly, because it doesn't (from my point of view). It does search and autorecord correctly.


TiVo, in partnership with its users (who must vigilantly un-check the PPV, sports and shopping channels that D* frequently drops and re-adds) is very capable of doing CIG correctly.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> TiVo, in partnership with its users (who must vigilantly un-check the sports and shopping channels that D* frequently drops and re-adds) is very capable of doing CIG correctly.


Ive yet to ever see that... I don't even know that tivo is actually compatible with CIG...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Ive yet to ever see that... I don't even know that tivo is actually compatible with CIG...


They're called "Channels I Receive" in the TiVo world, and were NEVER an issue in the TiVo forums for the 8 years I was a TiVo fan. User had complete control over which channels were available for GUIDE, SEARCH and AUTORECORD purposes. /steve


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Steve said:


> They're called "Channels I Receive" in the TiVo world, and were NEVER an issue in the TiVo forums for the 8 years I was a TiVo fan. User had complete control over which channels were available for GUIDE, SEARCH and AUTORECORD purposes. /steve


That's because TiVo wasn't trying to market channels like D* is.

Speaking of which, I haven't noticed any guide banners for awhile. That's a good thing.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Syzygy said:


> TiVo, in partnership with its users (who must vigilantly un-check the PPV, sports and shopping channels that D* frequently drops and re-adds) is very capable of doing CIG correctly.


No, it doesn't do CIG correctly. It is incapable of automatically determining which channels you subscribe to.

It does search and autorecord correctly.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dbronstein said:


> No, it doesn't do CIG correctly. It is incapable of automatically determining which channels you subscribe to.


Not even when you first run satellite set-up and get the initial data download?

Even if not, it's a master channel list that can be edited and used as the basis for creating FAVORITES LISTS subsets. And as you say, it filters the GUIDE and SEARCH and AUTORECORD results correctly. And there's still an "ALL" list on the TiVo's, should you want to include all channels you don't receive in the GUIDE for research purposes. /steve


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## Spiky (Aug 9, 2008)

dbronstein said:


> No, it doesn't do CIG correctly. It is incapable of automatically determining which channels you subscribe to.
> 
> It does search and autorecord correctly.


Nothing does. That's why manual is better. Both would be best, but from scanning this thread that obviously isn't happening. Ever. Seems stupid to me, they are obviously capable of determining which channels I get, because I get a black screen on those I do not get. That's been possible since HBO first went live.

The inability to choose which channels I can use for autorecord is driving me crazy in the HR21, and I've only had it since July.


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## Bizarroterl (Oct 20, 2006)

Spiky said:


> The inability to choose which channels I can use for autorecord is driving me crazy in the HR21, and I've only had it since July.


It's been a top priority for D* since they released their 1st HR20 so you should have a fix any day now. :sure:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Please update all the newly relocated RSNs... EVery one you have changed since June is not properly being populated in CIG


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

Bizarroterl said:


> [The inability to choose which channels you can use for autorecord] has been a top priority for D* since they released their 1st HR20 so you should have a fix *any day now*. :sure:


:lol:  :grin:


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Please update all the newly relocated RSNs... EVery one you have changed since June is not properly being populated in CIG


Whaddaya mean? What do I have to do?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> Whaddaya mean? What do I have to do?


Directv needs to do it... not us...


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

Keep in mind this has been going on for longer than two years. I had an R15 before my HR20 and its CIG was also broken.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Please list your current "channels I get" issues here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=144041


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