# Satellite Signal Loss Only on SOME Channels, Across All Receivers



## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

OK, here's the situation ... Longtime (15 years-plus) DirecTV customer with 5 receivers, all DVRs, with two tuners each, ranging from HR-20-700s to HR-24s on a SWM16 install with two four-way splitters. Dish last changed out in 2007, went from multi-switch to SWM16 in 2011, thanks to troubleshooting/advice here. We also have a HORRIBLE history with DirecTV installers/service people, which I won't rehash, but which is why I'm posting this question here, hoping it's something we can fix ourselves or, at the very least, hoping we know EXACTLY what is wrong before someone goes mucking around in our system.

And, on that note, does such a thing as a "independent" installer still exist? We are in a somewhat rural area and I've had better luck ordering needed equipment directly from someplace like Solid Signal, then hiring someone myself in the past, and paying them directly for their time, than relaying on DirecTV's "B", "C" or "D" squad that's working for peanuts and doesn't know how to do anything beyond a single standard install, which is all we seem to get out here in the sticks.

Came home last night to find searching for "satellite" signals only on certain channels (Comedy Central HD and Lifetime HD, to name two I noticed for sure). I tried rebooting, resetting and made sure the switch was powered and all the connections tight. Because it's across all receivers, I don't think it's an individual wiring issue, though know it could be something off the dish itself, of course. I looked at the signal meters and they're pretty good, mostly high 90s, though I don't know exactly what sat and transponder to look at for those specific channels.

The channels came back on, briefly, with occasional pixillations, but were gone again (with a searching 771 error) this morning. We are, technically, in the Dallas DMA, but barely, and way out of reach of antenna signals. Haven't noticed this issue on our local channels, but admit we mostly watch the national networks (NY/LA) that we receive (grandfathered white area).

Here are our numbers, which varied slightly while I recorded them, but nothing more than 2-3 points, max...

101
1-8 95 95 97 0 97 96 95 96
9-16 95 95 95 85 96 96 95 96
17-24 96 0 99 80 98 96 95 96 
25-32 96 0 98 0 100 97 95 97

110
1-8 (all N/A) then 96 on end
9-16 N/A 95 N/A 96 (rest N/A)
17-24 all N/A
25-32 all N/A

119
1-8 all N/A
9-16 all N/A
17-24 all N/A until ... 96, 96, 100
25-32 0 99 96 99 98 95 64 100

99(c)
1-8 94 95 91 94 91 94 89 92
9-16 90 94 92 92 95 95 N/A N/A
17-24 all N/A
25-32 all N/A

99(s)_ numbers super-slow to come up, receiver actually went into screen saver before it completed_

1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 N/A N/A
9-16 all N/A ... 0 0
17-24 0 45 24 0 88 91 0 0
25-32 all N/A

103(s) _also very slow to show_
1-8 0 83 60 88 all N/A
9-16 all N/A ... 47 96
17-24 85 85 97 92 96 93 56 64
25-32 all N/A

103(ca)
1-8 all N/A
9-16 96 95 96 96 96 95 96 96
17-24 95 95 96 95 95 95 95 96
25-32 all N/A

103(cb)
1-8 97 95 95 90 95 93 95 88
9-16 95 90 94 88 94 89 rest N/A
17-24 all N/A
25-32 all N/A

Weather here is nice, but we had some small snow about two weeks back and massive rain last week. During the snow, my husband did brush the dish off, which makes me wonder if something could have happened to it then, though that was a while back now and the problem just started. (We record the Daily Show nightly on Comedy Central so would have noticed it earlier had it occurred before.) We don't have any large trees or anything in the line-of-sight from the dish, which is mounted on our roof just above the eaves, to the sky (pretty open space).

For various reasons, if we can avoid tearing apart our system, I'd prefer it. I have no interest at this time in "upgrading" to Genie, as the set-up we have now works well for us. I just want to get all of our channels back online ASAP.

Thanks in advance for any help/insight anyone can provide!


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

susanandmark said:


> And, on that note, does such a thing as a "independent" installer still exist? We are in a somewhat rural area and I've had better luck ordering needed equipment directly from someplace like Solid Signal, then hiring someone myself in the past, and paying them directly for their time, than relaying on DirecTV's "B", "C" or "D" squad that's working for peanuts and doesn't know how to do anything beyond a single standard install, which is all we seem to get out here in the sticks.


Yes they do exist, you can try to search here with your zip code to see if there is any in your area.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

The signal strengths do not indicate a dish alignment or being blocked by anything. Those numbers are all good.
I would suspect the SWM 16 switch might be the problem.
I am not an installer, just a user like yourself. Wait to see what some of the professionals have to say.
Good luck.

You could use this if you currently have a Slimline 3 and take the SWM 16 out of the line.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DIRECTV-DSWM-LNB-SWM13-13-TUNER-3D1LNBR0-01-/181597014850?pt=US_Satellite_LNB_Downconverters&hash=item2a48068b42


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> The signal strengths do not indicate a dish alignment or being blocked by anything. Those numbers are all good.
> I would suspect the SWM 16 switch might be the problem.
> I am not an installer, just a user like yourself. Wait to see what some of the professionals have to say.
> Good luck.
> ...


Thank you. That was my thought, too, RE: the numbers, which all seem at least decent. Would love to know which sats transponders either of those know-it's-bad channels (Comedy Central and Lifetime, HD feeds) come off of, to narrow it down.

We have replaced the switch once before, about three years back, so I did immediately consider that as a place things could have gone bad again. But would that make the channels go in and out as we've experienced? Seems like that would be either work/not work, unlike an alignment issue.

Is that the LNB that goes on the dish itself, and all the receiver wires come off of it? I ask because, if I can buy something and self-install, it's much preferred. Current set-up is that dish is on roof, and wires come into attic where the multi-switch is located. I'm somewhat technical, but not super handy, but plug and play cable swaps and perhaps even a careful LNB replacement are things we probably could handle on our own, unless LNBs are harder to replace than I'm envisioning. (Which is: detach wires, take current off, put new one on, reattach wires.)


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

coolman302003 said:


> Yes they do exist, you can try to search here with your zip code to see if there is any in your area.


No one pops up within 20 miles for us, as I suspected based on previous experience. Pop density (low) plus our proximity to major metro (DFW) means we're too close to the "big city" to have our own fleet of decent service people, and too far for servicers from there to want to bother with us. (With even normal traffic, you're talking 70-90 minutes each way, minimum.) Catch 22 and something we struggle with for just about every service and repair need we have, not just DirecTV.

We had one guy, years ago, move our dish and do thousands of dollars of damage to our roof and attic with un-patched holes that went undiscovered until significant leaks were discovered and much damage already done. (Major nightmare.) The last guy ended up jumping the fence and running away when he couldn't solve the problem. Later learned that he only made a certain (small) amount per service call, and decided trying to actually troubleshot and fix our issue wasn't worth what DirecTV paid him.

The latter has been pretty typical of our experience. Everyone out here has sat, as it's only option, but most installers know how to do one thing, one way and have no desire to learn/do anything else. Short of pulling out our system and putting in the one they know how, I've found most to be at a total loss.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

susanandmark said:


> Thank you. That was my thought, too, RE: the numbers, which all seem at least decent. Would love to know which sats transponders either of those know-it's-bad channels (Comedy Central and Lifetime, HD feeds) come off of, to narrow it down.
> 
> We have replaced the switch once before, about three years back, so I did immediately consider that as a place things could have gone bad again. But would that make the channels go in and out as we've experienced? Seems like that would be either work/not work, unlike an alignment issue.
> 
> Is that the LNB that goes on the dish itself, and all the receiver wires come off of it? I ask because, if I can buy something and self-install, it's much preferred. Current set-up is that dish is on roof, and wires come into attic where the multi-switch is located. I'm somewhat technical, but not super handy, but plug and play cable swaps and perhaps even a careful LNB replacement are things we probably could handle on our own, unless LNBs are harder to replace than I'm envisioning. (Which is: detach wires, take current off, put new one on, reattach wires.)


Yes, that goes on the end of the arm on the dish. The people have a diagram on the auction site go back and click on it to see how it would be hooked up.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

susanandmark said:


> Thank you. That was my thought, too, RE: the numbers, which all seem at least decent. Would love to know which sats transponders either of those know-it's-bad channels (Comedy Central and Lifetime, HD feeds) come off of, to narrow it down.
> 
> We have replaced the switch once before, about three years back, so I did immediately consider that as a place things could have gone bad again. But would that make the channels go in and out as we've experienced? Seems like that would be either work/not work, unlike an alignment issue.
> 
> Is that the LNB that goes on the dish itself, and all the receiver wires come off of it? I ask because, if I can buy something and self-install, it's much preferred. Current set-up is that dish is on roof, and wires come into attic where the multi-switch is located. I'm somewhat technical, but not super handy, but plug and play cable swaps and perhaps even a careful LNB replacement are things we probably could handle on our own, unless LNBs are harder to replace than I'm envisioning. (Which is: detach wires, take current off, put new one on, reattach wires.)


Comedy Central is on the 103ca TPN 20.
Copied and pasted from a spreadsheet that a long time member keeps up.

MLBNHD 213 20
COMHD 249 20
LIFEHD 252 20
A&EHD 265 20
HISTHD 269 20
FS2HD 618 20
http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/200951-transponder-maps-domestic-latinam-data-refresh-11232014/page-1?hl=+tpn


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Have just left the TV on, on mute, while sitting here with live TV on ... Something we rarely ever do. Seeing intermittent pixellation, quick drops (771 message pops up), on Comedy, Life and SCIHD so far. Didn't see anything when I left it on Dallas locals. Just checked again and numbers on non N/A transponders on 103(ca) are all still in the 90s (low 92 to high of 96). Transponder 20 looks to be 95, clicked over too just after a signal loss drop out.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Yes, that goes on the end of the arm on the dish. The people have a diagram on the auction site go back and click on it to see how it would be hooked up.


Yes, I took a peek. It looks like it comes with the LNB, power supply and one 8-hook up and I'd need to find another 8 and power supply somewhere since I've got 10 tuners, if I'm looking at that diagram accurately? Or is this a one-wire-to-each-receiver-gives-two-tuners hook up?


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

susanandmark said:


> Yes, I took a peek. It looks like it comes with the LNB, power supply and one 8-hook up and I'd need to find another 8 and power supply somewhere since I've got 10 tuners, if I'm looking at that diagram accurately? Or is this a one-wire-to-each-receiver-gives-two-tuners hook up?


It has the power with the LNB.
Write to them and ask them how much more for another splitter. I would bet that they have them by themselves.
Yes one wire drives 2 tuners. Hook them to sat 1 input.
I will look in their "store" if they have one or their other listings to see if they have them. If not they are very cheap here and on Amazon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DirecTV-8-way-splitter-SWM-Green-Label-MRV-HD-WholeHome-Model-MSPLIT8R1-03-/151464688082?pt=US_Splitters_Combiners&hash=item2343ffb9d2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DIRECTV-DTV-2-WAY-SWM-SPLITTER-GREEN-LABEL-/111299607836?pt=US_Satellite_Signal_Multiswitches&hash=item19e9f93d1c


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> It has the power with the LNB.
> Write to them and ask them how much more for another splitter. I would bet that they have them by themselves.
> Yes one wire drives 2 tuners. Hook them to sat 1 input.
> I will look in their "store" if they have one or their other listings to see if they have them. If not they are very cheap here and on Amazon.
> ...


Thanks. Still hoping to hear a second opinion on whether anything thinks this will solve the intermittent channel specific signal loss issues.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

susanandmark said:


> Thanks. Still hoping to hear a second opinion on whether anything thinks this will solve the intermittent channel specific signal loss issues.


Yes,
definitely wait for one of the experts on here to put in their suggestions.

It could be as simple as a loose / corroded connection at the SWM 16.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Yes,
> definitely wait for one of the experts on here to put in their suggestions.


I hope someone does chime in, but doesn't mean I'm not grateful for your help/suggestions, because I am!


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Yes,
> definitely wait for one of the experts on here to put in their suggestions.
> 
> It could be as simple as a loose / corroded connection at the SWM 16.


I did go ahead and a make sure all the connections in looked good on the multiswitch. But haven't been up to the dish itself yet.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

My bet would be the LNB, since it seems to quite often have problems with 103ca. It is possible though that it is your SWM16 or a cable is corroding a bit.

Next time it happens, go to your signal strength screen and select 'signal meters' and watch 103ca tpn 20 for a minute or two - ideally with your husband watching on another TV to confirm he still sees the pixellation / loss of signal while you do this. If you see the number jumping around a lot (down very low or to 0, and then back up again) it is highly likely to be the LNB. So long as you can safely get up on your roof you can replace it yourself.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Unplug everything from power then after ten minutes plug in swim power supplies then another couple minutes plug in receivers. 

That's the first thing I'd do personally.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

After you try all of the above, if the problem still persists, write down the channels that you lose and ensure it is on all TV's.

Then they can be cross referenced to the specific sat and TP or a similar grouping..

I had a similar problem a few years back. Lost an ESPN and a SHO time channel.
Always happened in the afternoon, on sunny days.
Once I realized it was a single TP due to a particular weather condition, I knew it was the TP since all my other hardware is indoors.

Of course all was working when the tech showed up but when I showed him the data, he changed the LNB and all has been good since.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

OK, well my situation has gotten much, much worse. We've now lost about half the channels, and the signal strength numbers that looked pretty good last night, now look flat-out dismal in places. This is after troubleshooting obvious stuff, which I'm hoping didn't inadvertently do more harm than good.

This morning 101 looked like this ...

101
1-8 95 95 97 0 97 96 95 96
9-16 95 95 95 85 96 96 95 96
17-24 96 0 99 80 98 96 95 96 
25-32 96 0 98 0 100 97 95 97

Here's what I'm seeing now (this one had the least variance, though some signals dropped a decent amount) ...

101
1-8 95 92 96 0 97 95 95 95
9-16 96 95 95 62 96 95 95 95
17-24 96 0 99 53 98 96 95 96 
25-32 96 0 98 0 100 97 96 99

Much more distressingly, 110 this morning had 95s and 96s on the transponders that aren't N/A, now they're 0 across the board.

Even more indicative of a serious problem is that EVEN transponders, which earlier were in the 90s, have dropped completely (to "0") from the 103(ca) sat. ODD transponders continue to be either 95 or 96. 103(cb) seems to follow the same pattern (Odd transponders good, even transponders zero.)

So, here's what we tried to do ... I tried putting a new SWM16 switch in, to see if that was the issue. No change and, if anything, see above, worse.

We also climbed up on the roof to see if anything was obviously loose or out of whack. We didn't move the dish, at least we didn't move it intentionally or obviously. (I was watching my husband the whole time he was up there and it didn't seem to move at all.) He tried to make sure the connections were all tight on the coax, the bolts weren't loose, nothing looked rusted or corroded, etc. But, in the end, he didn't really didn't do anything. The odd-even transponder working/non-working, by the way, happened before he went up there ... It's kind of WHY he went up there, actually.

So, is there any consensus on what this might be. A bad LNB? I'm super frustrated and really, REALLY want my TV up and running again. Pronto. 

I did give in an try to call DirecTV to schedule service but they are showing "no one available in my area" within the 14-day scheduling window at the current time. They are supposed to call us back, but I'm not holding my breath. If there are things I can be doing to fix it myself in the meantime, I'd like to try them.

Thank you in advance for any help/suggestions you can provide!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

I would by pass the switch when the problem occurs and connect a receiver directly to the dish...


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

look at the input connections for the SWM16. Swap over the two cables connected to the "103/110/119" 13v and 18v connections. see if the problem moves from the even transponders to the odd ones. If it does, the most likely problem is in the cable/connectors from the dish connected to the 13v connector (after the swap). If the problem stays on the evens, then the problem is either the LNB at the dish or the SWM16. Since you've tried a new SWM16, almost certainly the LNB.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

susanandmark said:


> OK, well my situation has gotten much, much worse. We've now lost about half the channels, and the signal strength numbers that looked pretty good last night, now look flat-out dismal in places. This is after troubleshooting obvious stuff, which I'm hoping didn't inadvertently do more harm than good.
> 
> This morning 101 looked like this ...
> 
> ...


You can not check the connections just by looking at them. They need to be unscrewed and checked inside. Sometime moisture gets inside of there and they corrode. Sometimes you can clean that out reconnect it and it will be fine. Sometimes the connection needs to be replaced.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Just to let you know those 101 signals are fine. The ones with big changes are spots. Ignore them. And never expect or worry about anything on 110 it doesn't broadcast anything to the USA anymore.

It's the zeros on the c satelites that are issues.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Actually the fact you had high numbers on 110 maybe hints the issue is that maybe it is your switch or lnb. You really shouldn't have much signal unless you are close to PR or they had been fired up because of all the outages for locals on the east coast we had the other day.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Actually the fact you had high numbers on 110 maybe hints the issue is that maybe it is your switch or lnb. You really shouldn't have much signal unless you are close to PR or they had been fired up because of all the outages for locals on the east coast we had the other day.


Dunno, I always have low 90s on 110 and Iowa isn't too close to PR, so I wouldn't read too much into the idea of "too much signal" on 110.

The fact 110 went away when she lost the evens on 103 (all three tpns on 110 are even) however says to me it must be the cabling or the switch, probably not the LNB. Since she's already replaced the switch, I'd cast me eye on the cable. The idea of swapping the connections to 103 should prove that out pretty quickly - if there's a bad cable causing the 0s on 103/110/119 evens the problem would switch to the odds being 0s.

I suppose another possibility is that the SWM16 isn't getting enough current and can't maintain 18v on the 103 even. If you have an extra PI29 laying around, try swapping that out to eliminate a weak/damaged power supply as the issue.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I agree. But weird on the 110. Last I looked they had no signal anymore but im on the west coast so....


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

If it's relevant, we currently have a Slimline dish and LNB5. I ordered a replacement LNB from Solid Signal. I know we did it before, but can't remember how you direct test a receiver from the dish, bypassing the switch.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

susanandmark said:


> If it's relevant, we currently have a Slimline dish and LNB5. I ordered a replacement LNB from Solid Signal. I know we did it before, but can't remember how you direct test a receiver from the dish, bypassing the switch.


Remove the cable that goes to that receiver from the switch, then use any of the four cables coming from the dish to the switch inputs. Use an F-81 connector to join them together.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Remove the cable that goes to that receiver from the switch, then use any of the four cables coming from the dish to the switch inputs. Use an F-81 connector to join them together.


You can use any of the cables from the dish? Doesn't matter which one?


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

susanandmark said:


> You can use any of the cables from the dish? Doesn't matter which one?


Yes, you can use any of the cables but as you are currently using SWM you will need to go into sat setup on the receiver to switch from SWM to multiswitch and you will need a B-band convertor to receive all the satellites in multiswitch mode.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

longrider said:


> Yes, you can use any of the cables but as you are currently using SWM you will need to go into sat setup on the receiver to switch from SWM to multiswitch and you will need a B-band convertor to receive all the satellites in multiswitch mode.


OK, DECA requires SWM, correct? Should I unhook that before proceeding?


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

susanandmark said:


> OK, DECA requires SWM, correct? Should I unhook that before proceeding?


Yes, you will want to take the DECA module off the DVR you are using for testing and while it wont matter for the sake of the test you will get an error message about no sat signal on tuner 2.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

I couldn't get the receiver to work straight off the dish either, but it's always possible I might have done something incorrectly. I'm now getting messages on my receiver about it not being able to get guide data. I haven't heard back from DirecTV and will try again tomorrow since today was Sunday. Still hopeful it's just the LNB and can be taken care of fairly easily. Does that sound crazy?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

susanandmark said:


> I couldn't get the receiver to work straight off the dish either,


Did you repeat satellite set up? Did you attach a BBC? H23 and HR23 do not need BBCs regardless which systems they are in.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Did you repeat satellite set up? Did you attach a BBC? H23 and HR23 do not need BBCs regardless which systems they are in.


Yes and yes. Same results.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

susanandmark said:


> Yes and yes. Same results.


When you did the satellite setup did you change to the NON SWM and did it stay selected ?
There is a problem sometimes that you must choose Multiswitch and then go back to the dish selection and choose it again for it to keep the setting.


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## Ken Stomski (Nov 17, 2011)

many times in the past i have seen a compromised cable or bad f connector cause this. a single knick in the jacket can allow moiture in, and it WILL find it's way into the f connectors. Also, you can't always look at an f connector to determine if it is bad - when we go out we replace every f connector at the lnbs and switches.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Ken Stomski said:


> many times in the past i have seen a compromised cable or bad f connector cause this. a single knick in the jacket can allow moiture in, and it WILL find it's way into the f connectors. Also, you can't always look at an f connector to determine if it is bad - when we go out we replace every f connector at the lnbs and switches.


We finally got someone out (thank goodness!) and it was this exactly. The end connector was rusted totally through. Good thing we finally found someone competent because I never would have been able to fix that myself. Thanks for everyone's help!


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

susanandmark said:


> We finally got someone out (thank goodness!) and it was this exactly. The end connector was rusted totally through. Good thing we finally found someone competent because I never would have been able to fix that myself. Thanks for everyone's help!


Thanks for the update.
Glad to hear that you had a good tech and solved you problem.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Thanks for the update.
> Glad to hear that you had a good tech and solved you problem.


Yeah, to elaborate more ... The ends were all corroded at the dish. One connector--tip of the coax--had actually broken off inside the outdoor connection to the LNB, so it was probably going for a long time. Every time it would wiggle a bit, it would lose the connection till it finally just couldn't make it all anymore. New cable connectors, on both ends (at switch and at dish) and re-peaked the dish, plus added little rubber weather jackets over the connectors, which we didn't have.

ETA: Also replaced the LNB, just for the heck of it, since ours was from 2007. But we had it up and running correctly before that. It was actually advice from this forum that made it clear it was coax. When we swapped the sat inputs on the switch, the transponders that didn't work (even) worked and those that that had (odd) didn't. So thank you very, VERY much DBSTalk!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

susanandmark said:



> New cable connectors, on both ends (at switch and at dish) and re-peaked the dish,


Changing out just he connectors is a hack job. Water runs down, and most of the time, the braids inside the cable become powdery. Best course of action is to replace the entire cable.


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