# Disposable TVs: Vizio Tells Owners Their Sets Are Un-repairable



## Mark Holtz

From HD Guru via Consumerist:

*Disposable TVs: Vizio Tells Owners Their Sets Are Un-repairable*


> Vizio, America's second best selling LCD TV brand, is now telling some broken set owners that their televisions cannot be repaired. If the set is past the 12 month factory warranty, Vizio advises owners to buy from them a replacement set !
> 
> HD Guru came across Jeff Bartran's letter to Vizio CEO and founder William Wang complaining that the company's service department had deemed "un-repairable" his 13.5 month old, high end $1868 Vizio 55-inch LED LCD .


Gee, what is the warranty on televisions nowadays?


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## P Smith

Soon to be 3 months following sat company giving to their STB and DVR.


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## matt

P Smith said:


> Soon to be 3 months following sat company giving to their STB and DVR.


huh?

Anyway.... things need to cost less if they are going to be disposable after a year. A 42" Vizio from wally world costs ~$450. D* service is what, $79.99 for one room? Add three more rooms, $18. Whole home for $3.

Lets see, $1200 for a years service, plus $1800 on disposable TVs per year... $250/month for entertainment. Wow!


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## Cholly

The typical flat panel TV these days has several circuit boards If a component on the board becomes defective, the whole board must be replaced.The big problem with an out of warranty big screen TV is the cost of shipping to a repair facility plus the cost of replacing the circuit board and then the cost of shipment back to the set owner.
It's unusual for one of today's TV's fto fail once the "Infant Mortality" period has passed.

Set manufacturers are generally reluctant to sell components to independent service people, preferring instead to have the set owner ship the defective receiver to one of their service facilities.

Generally speaking, extended warranties aren't always a good deal. However, with a receiver costing over $1,000, I'd be inclined to invest in a Square trade Warranty.


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## AntAltMike

I've been involved in electronics repair at the component level for over 40 years. I find it amazing and frustrating that every year I know more than I did before, but every year, I can fix less.


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## P Smith

I wouldn't say so - while my experience is little short then your, I found I can fix practically anything if I can find parts in my scrap box (boxes actually  ).
Time and money (payment) wise ... well, that's the tough point now.


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## Rich

AntAltMike said:


> I've been involved in electronics repair at the component level for over 40 years. I find it amazing and frustrating that every year I know more than I did before, but every year, I can fix less.


If it helps, my car mechanic is in the same boat and he is constantly attending classes on how to fix the new cars.

Rich


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## Carl Spock

The reason *AntAltMike* has trouble fixing stuff today is not for the absence of a box of parts. It's because of a total lack of support by the manufacturers. In the consumer electronics industry, everybody farms out their service. The manufacturers do almost none of it in-house (Apple is an exception). They have no concept of what it takes to fix their stuff on a day to day basis.

And when you get to the service shop level, much of the service is swapping out boards. You often don't solder in a replacement capacitor today. Instead you swap out a whole board. This is how Panasonic services their TVs. And if that board is unavailable, you're screwed.

In the old days, the service manual would hit the service center within the first month a piece was on the market. The manufacturer would service the first initial failures themselves as part of QC. Otherwise, the parts were available, and if for some reason the manufacturer didn't have the part, you could often substitute out one from a parts distributor.

Those days are long gone.

As this thread points out, it's now the era of disposable electronics.


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## AntAltMike

Is SAM's Photofacts still in business?

I can't fix most circuit boards today because the components are too small, too densely mounted, and are attached using surface-mounted technology. Back in the 1970s, when most "modern" circuit boards were populated with TTL logic chips in DIP cases, the pins were spaced one tenth of an inch apart and if I wanted to break into a circuit to perform a live test, I'd suck the solder out of a pin's hole and gently pry the pin out while I tested it. Then, by the early to mid 1980s, the trace layout techniques had "improved" to the point where they could run two circuit traces between 0.100 center pads instead of one, but to do that, they had to drill smaller component insertion holes and print smaller pads, making it nearly impossible to safely retract a single pin. Today, the leads on surface mounted components are so small and so close together that I doubt that I could safely put a test probe on one without shorting it to another.

I'm not complaining, because, as I customer, I benefit from the improved reliability. Ditto for auto repair. Twice in my early driving life, I had a fuel pump fail when I was driving a vehicle, and in each instance, I walked to the nearest parts store, bought a replacement, and then walked back to my vehicle and bolted it in. I was mortified and incensed when another fuel pump failed in the early 1990s, because I learned that it was in my gas tank and I would have to raise the vehicle and remove the gas tank to service it. But after two decades of benefiting from the superior performance of electric fuel pumps and their reliability, I don't long for the old, mechanical, bolt-onto-the-side-of-your-engine-and-go pumps.

And if it wasn't for that gigantic batch of bad electrolytic capacitors that plagues us, most of us wouldn't even know that any electronic devices ever fail anymore.


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## SayWhat?

And of course the 'no-repair' era trickles down to the local economy, knocking the neighborhood repairs shops into the wind.

I remember the day when there were TV and appliance repair shops about every five miles or so. The TV repair guy would actually come to your house and work on it there. And I'm not talking about some whiz-kid in a funny looking Beetle.


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## Glen_D

Carl Spock said:


> The reason *AntAltMike* has trouble fixing stuff today is not for the absence of a box of parts. It's because of a total lack of support by the manufacturers. In the consumer electronics industry, everybody farms out their service. The manufacturers do almost none of it in-house (Apple is an exception). They have no concept of what it takes to fix their stuff on a day to day basis.
> 
> And when you get to the service shop level, much of the service is swapping out boards. You often don't solder in a replacement capacitor today. Instead you swap out a whole board.


Back in 1978, I bought my first TV, a Zenith 19" Chromacolor solid-state tabletop, from a local TV & Stereo dealer that had an in-house service department.

A few months after I bought the set, the color went out, leaving me with a monochrome picture. The parts were still under warranty, but not the labor. I called the dealer I bought it from, and gave them the set's make & model, and described the symptom. They dispatched a technician to my house, who arrived with a printed circuit board in one hand, tool kit in the other. he removes the back of the set, after fiddling with the controls to no avail, pops out the old board, plugs in the new one, and presto! I've got color again.

On the invoice, he writes " no color - replaced color control board". I pay for the service call ($25 back then, IIRC), and send him on his way.

BTW - I think that TV was $499.95 + tax. No remote, just separate rotary-dial click-stop tuners for VHF & UHF.


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## FarmerBob

What is being said by Vizio makes sense. It's the same thing that Olevia said and did. And now they are out of business. Well having really crappy CS and bad engineering and manufacturing didn't help either. The last I checked Olevia, that at one time had R&D in Boulder, Distribution out of Henderson, NV and I think HQ was in City of Industry, CA is now only operational in one North African country. Probably out of a street market stall. I was told by Olevia TS that there was no reason for me to hook up my TV to the Internet because there wouldn't be any updates for it. They didn't care. And when it dies, just buy a new one. I'm seeing this attitude all over now. Even with high-end, big name makers.

Vizio took over right when Olevia died. And I am not surprised at all about any of this.


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## Mark Holtz

What we are doing now with consumer electronics is much more complex than what we had years ago. The television, DVD player, and BluRay player is a computer in itself, and gives us more functions compared with the television, VCR, and stereo from years back. 

As a consumer, I expect at least five years of services from a computer that I assemble or a laptop that I get. For everything else, about ten years of service. Now, there are some things which I expect to be able to easily replace such as a dead/non-charging battery. But then, there are things that, when it fails, it's "not worth fixing", such as a flyback transformer on a CRT or a faulty panel on a LCD.

But, then, there is the in-between stuff. While I work in IT, for almost 15 years, I was also a machinist. That means that I can take stuff apart and put them back together again. I'm NOT a car repairman, but I can replace the lights in my car and change the oil (but I take it to a lube place.... let THEM deal with the waste oil). Heck, with the online instructions, I modified my DirecTiVo from the 40GB HD that it came with (this is 2003) to two 160GB HDs. But, geez.... let me get the parts.

Now, at what point do try to fix and what point do I throw up my hands and replace? Well, let me check Amazon first....


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## Mark Holtz

AntAltMike said:


> Is SAM's Photofacts still in business?


https://www.samswebsite.com/


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## jerry downing

Does anyone remember the tube tester in your neighborhood drug store? If a tube tested bad, they would sell you a new one. If a color TV in the 1960's went more than two years without needing some kind of repair, it was unusual.


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## Davenlr

jerry downing said:


> Does anyone remember the tube tester in your neighborhood drug store?


Yes, and thank you for reminding me how old I am.


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## Glen_D

jerry downing said:


> Does anyone remember the tube tester in your neighborhood drug store? If a tube tested bad, they would sell you a new one. If a color TV in the 1960's went more than two years without needing some kind of repair, it was unusual.


Yes, Radio Shack stores in my area had tube testers until at least the mid-1970s.

Those vacuum tubes got weaker as they aged, and eventually had to be replaced, so yes, those TV sets had to be serviced periodically, often by TV repairmen who made house calls.


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## Mark Holtz

Oh, yeah, I remember the tube tester that was at a Thirfty store in the early 1980s.


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## P Smith

You should stop by at De Anza College parking lot sometimes - I've seen a lot of tubes, perhaps someone still has the tube test box ...


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## WERA689

I acquired a tube tester a couple of years ago...a lab quality Hickock 752A. I had it cleaned, serviced and calibrated and use it regularly to verify and match tubes for several pieces of audio equipment I either built or use. Worth it's weight in tubes for a bottlehead.


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## Mark Holtz

How vacuum tubes were made


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## Nick

<_in jake harper's voice_> "Tubes? What _are_ these things called 'tubes'?


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## Cholly

Tubes? Look no farther than high end audio equipment - still there! Check Luxman, for example.


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## ronton3

I am just starting to sell about 150 pieces of Tube audio gear and related I have collected over the years, along with about 3000 tubes. I have a drug store Tester and about 6 others. My Daughter and Granddaughter just showed me how to do Ebay. Now there is something to keep an older brain charging up. ron


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## FarmerBob

jerry downing said:


> Does anyone remember the tube tester in your neighborhood drug store? If a tube tested bad, they would sell you a new one. If a color TV in the 1960's went more than two years without needing some kind of repair, it was unusual.


To show my age and that I do remember it, I will not say OMG!!!!!! OK, so I did and I do. Those were the days. There was integrity then.


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## TBlazer07

jerry downing said:


> Does anyone remember the tube tester in your neighborhood drug store? If a tube tested bad, they would sell you a new one. If a color TV in the 1960's went more than two years without needing some kind of repair, it was unusual.


Does anyone remember cats-whisker .................. (Fill in the blank).

NO GOOGLING!

I remember sleeping with one. :lol:


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## TBlazer07

P Smith said:


> You should stop by at De Anza College parking lot sometimes - I've seen a lot of tubes, perhaps someone still has the tube test box ...


 Check out the annual Dayton (OH) Hamfest if you want to relive your past. Pretty much turned into the Dayton Junkfest but still fun to walk the aisles.


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## jadebox

Speaking of Vizio ....

After I bought a Vizio TV for our bedroom, I was annoyed because it has an illuminated "Vizio" logo on the front that is always on. I went through the TV's setup menus and couldn't find a way to turn it off. I found no help on the internet. So, I called Vizio's tech support number.

They told me to .... as I'm sure you've already guessed ... "cover the logo with electrical tape."

-- Roger


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## P Smith

jadebox said:


> Speaking of Vizio ....
> 
> After I bought a Vizio TV for our bedroom, I was annoyed because it has an illuminated "Vizio" logo on the front that is always on. I went through the TV's setup menus and couldn't find a way to turn it off. I found no help on the internet. So, I called Vizio's tech support number.
> 
> They told me to .... as I'm sure you've already guessed ... "cover the logo with electrical tape."
> 
> -- Roger


It would be easy fix for handyman - open a back cover, find the wires coming from the logo plate to main PCB and disconnect/cut it.


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## Whodo

TBlazer07 said:


> Does anyone remember cats-whisker .................. (Fill in the blank).
> 
> NO GOOGLING!
> 
> I remember sleeping with one. :lol:


Sure do,,, received my first Ham Lic. in 1961,,, Dang just realized that I have been licensed for 50 years now.


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## jadebox

P Smith said:


> It would be easy fix for handyman - open a back cover, find the wires coming from the logo plate to main PCB and disconnect/cut it.


That's what some have done according to the internet. I just used some electrical tape.

In any case, it was a pretty stupid design decision by Vizio. Another silly thing is that we bought a Vizio Blu-Ray player at the same time assuming that there would be an advantage to having both devices from the same company. But, neither remote can be used as the only remote - we ended up buying a $10 universal remote which can control both the TV and Blu-Ray player.

On the other hand, our Vizio TV was really cheap and it works okay. The picture is in no way comparable to the Samsung we have in the living room, but the cost was so low that I'm not going to complain about it.

-- Roger


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## Rich

jadebox said:


> That's what some have done according to the internet. I just used some electrical tape.
> 
> In any case, it was a pretty stupid design decision by Vizio. Another silly thing is that we bought a Vizio Blu-Ray player at the same time assuming that there would be an advantage to having both devices from the same company. But, neither remote can be used as the only remote - we ended up buying a $10 universal remote which can control both the TV and Blu-Ray player.
> 
> On the other hand, our Vizio TV was really cheap and it works okay. The picture is in no way comparable to the Samsung we have in the living room, but the cost was so low that I'm not going to complain about it.
> 
> -- Roger


I remember asking a salesman at a retail store about the Vizio's when they first came out. His answer was once they get it home, as long as they don't have another TV to compare it to, they'll love it. Your post proves his point.

I did buy a Vizio LCD just to try it out. It was a 32" or 37" model and, compared to my Panny plasmas, was pretty bad, but it did make a really nice computer monitor. Had it for about two days and took it back. That was just after they came out. They must have gotten better, no?

Rich


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## Rich

TBlazer07 said:


> Does anyone remember cats-whisker .................. (Fill in the blank).
> 
> NO GOOGLING!
> 
> I remember sleeping with one. :lol:


I had to Google it. Interesting. Now, why would you sleep with one......?

Rich


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## Nick

rich584 said:


> ...I did buy a Vizio LCD just to try it out. It was a 32" or 37" model and, compared to my Panny plasmas, was pretty bad, but it did make a really nice computer monitor. Had it for about two days and took it back. That was just after they came out. They must have gotten better, no?
> 
> Rich


I have a 42" Vizio that I bought about a year ago. I have been very happy with the PQ. Price was defintely a factor.


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## Rich

Nick said:


> I have a 42" Vizio that I bought about a year ago. I have been very happy with the PQ. Price was defintely a factor.


They got better then. The PQ on the set I bought was not horrible, just not nearly as good as a Panny plasmas. And the price I paid for the Vizio wasn't that cheap, don't really remember what I paid for it, but I remember thinking it was way too much to keep and use as a computer monitor. I do see an awful lot of people buying them.

Rich


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## RobertE

rich584 said:


> They got better then. The PQ on the set I bought was not horrible, just not nearly as good as a Panny plasmas. And the price I paid for the Vizio wasn't that cheap, don't really remember what I paid for it, but I remember thinking it was way too much to keep and use as a computer monitor. I do see an awful lot of people buying them.
> 
> Rich


The newer models that I've seen are pretty nice. I'd put them at or near the top of Tier 2 mfgs. Pretty nice set for the money. A hell of a lot better than say RCA, Phillips, Store Brand or <insert Chinese mfg name here>. But still short of a Tier 1 mfg, LG, Samsung, Sony, etc.


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## Rich

RobertE said:


> The newer models that I've seen are pretty nice. I'd put them at or near the top of Tier 2 mfgs. Pretty nice set for the money. A hell of a lot better than say RCA, Phillips, Store Brand or <insert Chinese mfg name here>. But still short of a Tier 1 mfg, LG, Samsung, Sony, etc.


They should be more than nice for what they cost. I've only glanced at the prices in Costco, but the bigger sets seem to be around two grand. Kinda near the upper tier in price, if not in quality.

Rich


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## Cholly

The pricey Vizios at Costco are 3D LED models - a 65 inch,120Hz model for $2799.99 and a 55 inch 480Hz model for $1499.99 
I've had a 37 inch 720p Vizio for around 3 years. The only problem I've encountered with it is that the optical digital audio output has stopped working. Since it's a bedroom TV, I'm not too concerned. I can get 5.1 audio from my Blu-ray player and TiVo Premiere.


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## Jhon69

jadebox said:


> Speaking of Vizio ....
> 
> After I bought a Vizio TV for our bedroom, I was annoyed because it has an illuminated "Vizio" logo on the front that is always on. I went through the TV's setup menus and couldn't find a way to turn it off. I found no help on the internet. So, I called Vizio's tech support number.
> 
> They told me to .... as I'm sure you've already guessed ... "cover the logo with electrical tape."
> 
> -- Roger


That's interesting as the 55" LED/LCD Vizio HDTV I have has a setting in the TV's Menu to do that,turns the Vizio logo on or off.


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## Jhon69

Mark Holtz said:


> From HD Guru via Consumerist:
> 
> *Disposable TVs: Vizio Tells Owners Their Sets Are Un-repairable*Gee, what is the warranty on televisions nowadays?


That will work out just fine for me as I keep up the repair insurance on mine,so if they can't fix mine they will buy me a new one.


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## jadebox

Jhon69 said:


> That's interesting as the 55" LED/LCD Vizio HDTV I have has a setting in the TV's Menu to do that,turns the Vizio logo on or off.


Mine's a 42" (I think) LCD. It doesn't have that option. I expected it to allow you to turn off th elogo, but it didn't.

The least they could have done was include a piece of black tape with the TV. 

-- Roger


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## davejacobson

Its not that sets are unrepairable its lack of parts support and schematics. Visio has been one of the worst for support. IMHO LG has been the best there is still training schools a tech department and parts I can get in 2 days. Schematics are not as good as they should be,but I still can repair down to component level if I want. Some companies want to build products you can use for years other companies want you to buy a new one every year. Shop for better quality and support spend a few more $$$. Want a new one every year go for the cheapy.


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## Stevie

There are some things in this thread that probably need to be cleared up.

I guess first, the quote pasted from the article is misleading and was not complete. The article referred was sparked about a customer who had a PANEL go bad after 13-months. The customer said he was told by VIZIO that the set could not be repaired under warranty but since it was just outside the warranty, he was offered a discount on a similar model delivered to his home. He asked about a repair and was told VIZIO considers panel issues non-repairable.

So it was in reference to a dead PANEL on a TV model which was no longer sold in retail stores. THAT was what was deemed "non-repairable".

And just out-of-warranty, sadly. This is the gamble of not buying an extended warranty. Panel failures are rare and he WAS offered a discount on a re-certified model to be delivered to his home.

When another representative was called by the person researching the article, the researcher was told that even with in-warranty panel issues, they normally replace the TV rather than replace the panel. The artcle writer took from that that the TV can't be repaired but that's not the case. He was on a witch hunt - he should have said that instead of replacing display panels, VIZIO replaces the customer's TV.

And this makes sense. Most manufacturers (VIZIO included) service in-warranty sets 32" and larger at end users' residences. Manufacturers don't want people lugging large screens 30 miles to a subcontracted shop or shipping it off where it might take weeks for repair. So they pre-diagnose over the phone and employ the services of nationwide companies that specialize in HDTV repair. The tech is shipped the parts (normally a mainboard and powerboard), and the tech schedules the service with the end user at their home. This is the way it's usually done now.

Board replacement is easy and can be done in 45 minutes. Almost all issues are solved by replacing the mainboard or powerboard. But panel replacement is best done in a controlled environment and should not done by the average in-home tech especially in the customer's living room. I've done it on-site and am comfortable and skilled doing it but I don't think I would want the average yay-hoo with an electric screwdriver to do it on a TV that I own.

When replacing a panel, there is more than the part availability, cost and shipping to consider. Replacing a panel in a large HDTV is messy. Consider the space required for complete HDTV disassembly and staging. You need the space of 3 HDTV's laid down flat. The design of the new LED backlit panels are flimsy, require special care, and are subject to dust getting between the LCD pane and the actual backlight.

So again - the "non-repairable" statement comes in when it is a PANEL that has gone bad. Otherwise, there are as many mainboards, powerboards, inverters, buffers, logic, T-cons available for VIZIOS as any other manufacturer. And they are as easy to replace. As far as VIZIO service manuals, they are available to authorized techs.

As for the logo being constantly illuminated, I can see where this would bother some people. My mom's Sony logo can be disabled in the menu and the red LED on my 50" Sammy plasma goes out after the TV fires up.

On VIZIO models that have the center logo, the behavior of that logo along with the function of the backlight can help determine a over-the-phone diagnosis. What would have been a nice feature on those is a physical switch on the bottom that would cut the voltage to the logo but would allow it to be easily turned on for diagnosis. Hmmm...

Lastly - if you made it through reading all of that, you might have pegged me for a fanboy.

Nope. I am a subcontracted onsite tech that deals with several brands of HDTV manufacturers - actually I deal with their warranty service providers. As far as service, VIZIO seems to be one of the best as far as response time and low number of failures. I'm basing that on my own experience as a tech that is automatically assigned service calls in a very large area of my state.

LCD models from all manufacturers are getting better - the picture quality from VIZIO's top models are as good as any. When shopping, I would NEVER listen to a sales person, but instead take my own upconverting DVD player with me to test HDMI (HD) and AV (SD).


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## BosFan

Well said Stevie - I am a enterprise computer tech and deal with similar issue with monitors (though not that big), so I see the same thing on those except we do send them in for "repair", which is really replacement.


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## SayWhat?

Stevie said:



> When another representative was called by the person researching the article, the researcher was told that even with in-warranty panel issues, they normally replace the TV rather than replace the panel. The artcle writer took from that that the TV can't be repaired but that's not the case.


But that IS the case if they replace instead of repair. Repair means to fix the set, not replace it.



> Board replacement is easy and can be done in 45 minutes. Almost all issues are solved by replacing the mainboard or powerboard.


That's ASSUMing the boards are available. Often they aren't. Boards tend to be just different enough so as not to be interchangeable between models, so a couple of years after production stops, parts are gone.

I have an otherwise perfectly good 30" LCD that needs a power board that cannot be found. It's analog so I stopped looking even though I could use it with a converter box.



> So again - the "non-repairable" statement comes in when it is a PANEL that has gone bad. Otherwise, there are as many mainboards, powerboards, inverters, buffers, logic, T-cons available for VIZIOS as any other manufacturer.


And again, not entirely true. It isn't always the panel that causes the set to require replacement.


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## P Smith

> *I have an otherwise perfectly good 30" LCD that needs a power board that cannot be found. It's analog so I stopped looking ...*


I would fix it by myself; the broken components could replaced by similar, if not available.


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## AntAltMike

jerry downing said:


> Does anyone remember the tube tester in your neighborhood drug store? If a tube tested bad, they would sell you a new one. ...


Our local one was in the same store where you bought your goldfish and colored baby chicks at Easter.



TBlazer07 said:


> Does anyone remember cats-whisker .................. (Fill in the blank).
> 
> NO GOOGLING!
> 
> I remember sleeping with one. :lol:


I hope I'm not mssing a joke here, but I went to bed with mine, listening to the late night broadcasts of west coast baseball games.


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## Stevie

Stevie said:


> When another representative was called by the person researching the article, the researcher was told that even with in-warranty panel issues, they normally replace the TV rather than replace the panel. The article writer took from that that the TV can't be repaired but that's not the case.
> 
> 
> 
> SayWhat? said:
> 
> 
> 
> But that IS the case if they replace instead of repair. Repair means to fix the set, not replace it.
Click to expand...

But they DO repair. My point was about a misleading article that intended to make the reader think that a certain manufacturer doesn't repair their products when others do. It even stated that in the headline and a person would need to know a bit about HDTV's in order to grasp that the TV gets replaced in-warranty only when there's a panel issue - otherwise the set gets repaired 100% of the time. I know because I do these repairs. And TV's with panel issues DO get repaired - just not in customers' homes.



Stevie said:


> Board replacement is easy and can be done in 45 minutes. Almost all issues are solved by replacing the mainboard or powerboard.
> 
> 
> 
> SayWhat? said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's ASSUMing the boards are available. Often they aren't. Boards tend to be just different enough so as not to be interchangeable between models, so a couple of years after production stops, parts are gone.
> 
> I have an otherwise perfectly good 30" LCD that needs a power board that cannot be found. It's analog so I stopped looking even though I could use it with a converter box.
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to sets that are out of warranty or out of production and neither was the author of the original article. He had made the misleading headline (which with many readers, that's ALL they read) and his article was meant to imply that a certain HDTV manufacturer makes TV's can't be repaired.

As for parts availability, obsolescence is problem with any HDTV (makes me want to go buy spares for mine). Parts for recent models are usually available from multiple sources but boards for a set with 3 or 4 years on it will be scarce even on eBay.

Prices go up when availability is limited. A powerboard for a popular model 32" plasma was about $70 shipped last year - currently a new board for this model goes for $200 if you can find it.

Powerboards can be repaired at the component level (fewer parts, no chips), but mainboards not so much. At least not with my limited abilities.

You say you have a set that is 3 years old and has a powerboard problem - it might have capacitors that were made during the "capacitor plague" period in China. Check for capacitors that are bulged or leaking, replace those with the same value (uF,volt) and physical size. They're inexpensive, it's an easy fix if you can melt solder and is worth throwing $10 at it.

DigiKey is a good source for capacitors and they have a pretty useful interface for finding the correct capacitor.


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## satcrazy

OK,
I see some techs here, just bought a new plasma, and after dropping 1k, [ my crt died, RIP ] just "buying a new one after a year" if it fails does not even fit in my head, extra $ too hard to come by these days.

I belong to another forum [ popular] and after reading that a "board relacement" that takes under twenty min. could close in on $500, [ No offense guys, I believe everyone should make a decent living, but $500, seriously?] Is the part that pricey? I need extended warranty service.

Anyway, squartrade is out, I read the fine print, no thanks. Did not buy from B&M store, so need to explore other warranties.

Any recommendations for a decent warranty company?

Thanks for any input!


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## matt

We used to always buy the extended warranty with everything. What a joke. I bought apple care for this laptop and all it got me was a battery charger that would have been cheaper than the plan itself.

My advice is every time you buy something take that money you want to spend on a replacement plan and put it in a jar. If I had done that years ago I'd have a jar full of cash to go along with my electronics that still work fine even after their extended warranty is out.


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## Stevie

satcrazy said:


> OK,
> I see some techs here, just bought a new plasma, and after dropping 1k, [ my crt died, RIP ] just "buying a new one after a year" if it fails does not even fit in my head, extra $ too hard to come by these days.
> 
> I belong to another forum [ popular] and after reading that a "board relacement" that takes under twenty min. could close in on $500, [ No offense guys, I believe everyone should make a decent living, but $500, seriously?] Is the part that pricey? I need extended warranty service.
> 
> Anyway, squartrade is out, I read the fine print, no thanks. Did not buy from B&M store, so need to explore other warranties.
> 
> Any recommendations for a decent warranty company?
> 
> Thanks for any input!


With plasma systems, there are more components - thus more that could go wrong but a $500 service is excessive for board replacement in a recent model where parts should be available at original price. As I have explained in an previous post in this thread, repairing a set where a panel has failed will usually cost as much and sometimes MORE than a new (better) set. And again, panel failures are very rare.

In April 2010, I bought a Samsung PN50C7000 (50" plasma) for $1600. I bought it online from my usual retailer and at checkout, the retailer offered a 2-year extended for $120 which I declined. I registered the set online at Samsung which gave me another 6 months on top of the 1-yr Sammy warranty.

I generally look at extended warranties like a losing bet, but still compare the risk of product failure to the cost of the protection on a case-by-case basis. I usually decline all extended warranties unless the cost of protection is very inexpensive. With my PDP purchase, I decided that a $120 extended warranty for a $1600 HDTV that covered month 19-43 wasn't a good purchase. If it had been $60 or covered 3 or 4 more years, I might have opted in.



matt said:


> We used to always buy the extended warranty with everything. What a joke. I bought apple care for this laptop and all it got me was a battery charger that would have been cheaper than the plan itself.
> 
> My advice is every time you buy something take that money you want to spend on a replacement plan and put it in a jar. If I had done that years ago I'd have a jar full of cash to go along with my electronics that still work fine even after their extended warranty is out.


That's pretty much my thinking, too. It is a gamble to not purchase extended warranties but your warranty-money-in-a-jar is the better bet.

I have to say that sometimes they DO pay off if you want to call it that. As a tech, I have been assigned service requests on a few dusty TV's that were 3 or more years old where the end users had paid for an original extended warranty and also took the bait on incremental plans offered when original plan was about to expire.

In those cases, sure they got their TV repaired but after it was repaired it performed just as it did when it was new which isn't necessarily good. In other words, with my examples, they paid hundreds of dollars in insurance to later have a working but outdated set with old LCD circuitry (stepped blacks, motion judder, excessive artifacts).


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## satcrazy

Stevie said:


> With plasma systems, there are more components - thus more that could go wrong but a $500 service is excessive for board replacement in a recent model where parts should be available at original price. As I have explained in an previous post in this thread, repairing a set where a panel has failed will usually cost as much and sometimes MORE than a new (better) set. And again, panel failures are very rare.
> 
> In April 2010, I bought a Samsung PN50C7000 (50" plasma) for $1600. I bought it online from my usual retailer and at checkout, the retailer offered a 2-year extended for $120 which I declined. I registered the set online at Samsung which gave me another 6 months on top of the 1-yr Sammy warranty.
> 
> I generally look at extended warranties like a losing bet, but still compare the risk of product failure to the cost of the protection on a case-by-case basis. I usually decline all extended warranties unless the cost of protection is very inexpensive. With my PDP purchase, I decided that a $120 extended warranty for a $1600 HDTV that covered month 19-43 wasn't a good purchase. If it had been $60 or covered 3 or 4 more years, I might have opted in.
> 
> That's pretty much my thinking, too. It is a gamble to not purchase extended warranties but your warranty-money-in-a-jar is the better bet.
> 
> I have to say that sometimes they DO pay off if you want to call it that. As a tech, I have been assigned service requests on a few dusty TV's that were 3 or more years old where the end users had paid for an original extended warranty and also took the bait on incremental plans offered when original plan was about to expire.
> 
> In those cases, sure they got their TV repaired but after it was repaired it performed just as it did when it was new which isn't necessarily good. In other words, with my examples, they paid hundreds of dollars in insurance to later have a working but outdated set with old LCD circuitry (stepped blacks, motion judder, excessive artifacts).


How is your sammy performing?
After months of research before buying, All 2011's brands have issues, some repairable, some not. I shouldn't really say 100% have issues here, as I'm sure there are plenty of people who have good working sets. But buying a tv with known issues is still a crap shoot, No matter what brand I looked at, So I just tried to choose one with a decent picture. I ended up with a panny tcp50ST30, So far no buzz, no green glob, but a good possibilty it will have the fluctuating brightness issue. This years sammy's had their own issues of running hot, buzz [ That Would be a dealbreaker] bannding, rising blacks, etc.

So, while I understand the theory here about extended warranties, and I have to say I actually agree, I'm not wealthy enough to buy another tv in a couple of years. While I realize these are not crt's, I still expect this to last a good amount of time. So, I am still looking at extended warranty.


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## Stevie

satcrazy said:


> How is your sammy performing?
> After months of research before buying, All 2011's brands have issues, some repairable, some not. I shouldn't really say 100% have issues here, as I'm sure there are plenty of people who have good working sets. But buying a tv with known issues is still a crap shoot, No matter what brand I looked at, So I just tried to choose one with a decent picture. I ended up with a panny tcp50ST30, So far no buzz, no green glob, but a good possibilty it will have the fluctuating brightness issue. This years sammy's had their own issues of running hot, buzz [ That Would be a dealbreaker] bannding, rising blacks, etc.
> 
> So, while I understand the theory here about extended warranties, and I have to say I actually agree, I'm not wealthy enough to buy another tv in a couple of years. While I realize these are not crt's, I still expect this to last a good amount of time. So, I am still looking at extended warranty.


I think on my next HDTV purchase, I might wait until my model pick has been out for a year (my $1600 drool machine now sells for $1000 new). There's my extended warranty right there, so to speak. In my case, I tend to look for the "bestest" even knowing that the best choice at the time of purchase will be replaced by a supposed better model soon, but next time I hope to use more self control and delay the purchase for a year.

Regarding my Samsung PN50C7000, I've not had any issues. There was the "watery halo effect" that was corrected by the first firmware update, but after that no issues. With this TV, I'm constantly reminded why I prefer plasma for darker rooms.


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## Stevie

Timely problem and related to this thread....

My mom had me come over to her place to look at an intermittent problem with her Sony KDL-52W4100. She's had it for maybe 3 years and paid $3000.

There are 3 evenly-spaced horizontal lines dividing the screen into 4 equal-sized segments also running horizontally. This happens on all inputs and occurs on the TV's OSD (menu) as well. The other symptom is vertical ghosting of any video image including the OSD. This happens on a cold start-up but disappears after about 15 min.

image

I recognized this as probably an issue with the panel's laminated connections. Contact with Sony was worth a shot but their response wasn't surprising. No longer in warranty, no exceptions, no offer to replace with a discounted model.

So I checked my parts sources - exact panel replacement was not available but a substitute compatible part is available for $2600 (back-order) or $3300 (in stock) plus freight. Compatible? Heh.

Isn't this what the article writer was complaining about with VIZIO? I guess my point is that VIZIO was just being upfront and not blowing smoke up a reporter's HDMI port about the (non)feasibility of replacing a panel.

Back to my mom's TV... it seems this is a problem that some are experiencing with this series (several sizes). The lamination sometime fails on ribbon connectors going to the LCD pane. The hopeful home fix is to disassemble the panel itself, identify the effected ribbon/tab, and wedge a piece of rubber between the problem ribbon connection and panel frame to hold the ribbon solidly in place.

So the price to repair a HDTV is really what determines it as "non-repairable". Her TV cost 3 grand 3 years ago and a needed replacement part is 3 grand. In car-speak, her set would be considered "totaled". But I'll try the home fix when the issue gets worse. Nothing to lose.

She has a pretty bright room so should the fix fail and she thinks about buying another set, I might suggest to her a new edge-lit LED 120Hz VIZIO with wireless Internet for $1200. Fantastic picture, few known issues, not a large investment. Well, not large considering.


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