# Poll Request from E*: P287 DD5.1 Dropouts



## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

The 811 team has asked me to take a quick poll of P287 users. Please answer only if you have P287 and are having this issue.

Please answer if you have P287 and if you are experiencing center channel dropouts in Dolby Digital 5.1 broadcasts. If you are, also please post your AV receiver brand and model, and also post your 811's complete software and bootstrap version. For example Software P284LAFD-N, Bootstrap 1013LAFD.

Thanks,


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## gdarwin (Jan 31, 2005)

No Drop outs. Denon AVR-1705. Optical feed.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

gdarwin said:


> No Drop outs. Denon AVR-1705. Optical feed.


Yes, Jason. as you know I experience this. It's not a drop out, which may imply a brief loss of sound. In my case, it's more like the Center channel is either there or it isn't. For example, while watching Leno, the Center channel is dead throughout the show EXCEPT for the commercials, which are not in DD 5.1. As soon as the commercials start, the receiver goes into Prologic mode, and the center channel comes booming back to life. It then goes dead again as when the network feed reumes. BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH ALL DD 5.1 BROADCASTS. SEEMS TO OCCUR MOST OFTEN ON CERTAIN NBC DD 5.1 SHOWS.

I have a Pioneer VSX D11-S. Optical feed.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Yes, I have CC dropouts. Predominately on NBC, occasionally on CBS. I can't give a specific pattern on the failure, and after the latest power cycle I haven't had the issue recur.

Pre/Pro: Meridian 861v4, software v4.2
Dolby Decoding via Meridian G91, software v1.73

811:
P287-LADD-N
1014-LADD


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Sounds like I'd have to look out for this, don't think it would be something that obvious to me during a show


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

BFG said:


> Sounds like I'd have to look out for this, don't think it would be something that obvious to me during a show


If you have it, it's obvious. So don't look too hard. With DD 5.1 the CC contains mostly dialog. When the CC isn't there you simply cannot hear dialog while music, effects, etc. seem way too loud.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

9PM Central Time. All in DD except as noted:

Local NBC-DT "Law & Order": No CC - dead!
Local CBS-DT "CSI New York": No CC - dead!
HDMovie "Mean Streets": CC OK
Local ABC-DT "Prime Time Live": CC OK (not in DD)
HDNET "Robbery Division": CC OK
DicHD "American Chopper": CC OK


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

11:15 PM :

The only OTA broadcast in DD 5.1 is Leno. I'm watching Sly Stallone chat with Jay. Absolutely no audio coming from the CC except whenever commercial breaks switch from DD to ProLogic. All other DD broadcasts on the Satellite HD channels have proper CC audio. This appears to be a DD OTA issue.

I'll be calling Dish Cust Care tomorrow to report this and see what they plan to do. As a Dish subscriber since the beginning, I'm thru with the 811 unless they can resolve this quickly. Not a threat, just a statement. After 8 months with the 811, enough is enough. I hate it and I want out. 

Jason, has this issue been reported on the 942? This seems the only possible alternative other that switching to an alternate provider. The buggy 941 surely isn't a solution.

Your thoughts????


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Yeah I dunno WTF they are doing to the 811. I think there was a peak when everything was fine, now they release these updates and it screws up more than it fixes.

The main problem for me with 287 is when watching OTA for a while I got BSOD abd/or when switching to satellite the minor bug with the digital signal lost pops up.

But why is it not possible to add features without breaking something in the process.

Is everything they do just tweaking with pre existing settings and not actually fixing things?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-26TX. I have seen no CC drop outs. And for me 287 fixed more than it has broken and based on the posts here it has for others two. It also however as introduced some issues. 

The BSOD issue that I have also ran into seems to hit you with more frequency. I am still only on my second occurance and I have not seen any other posts from users that have stated your frequency of ever time you turn it on. 

The center channel seems to be hitting John and Moman. You are not seeing it, I am not seeing it and Jason is not seeing it. 

I am not doubting you guys are not seeing these issues. I am sure you are and I am sure they are causing you some customer pain. I have similar pain with my 921. However, based on the posts here the BSOD issue and the CC issue are not issues that effect every 287 user. According to the poll per 2.84 users are claiming a CC issue? hmmmm I am rather suprised and wonder if those are people where DD does not work at all on 2.84. 

Personally to me a bug that is seen by everyone is one I consider should not have gotten into the wild. A bug that seems to be seen by some users but does not seem wide spread I personally am more accepting. It does not make the pain felt by the issue and less for sure. However, based on what I have seen these two issues do not deserve the comments posted above in my opinion.

And to answer the questions.

Moman: No I have not heard the CC issue being in the 942. However, based on the frequency reported here I would not draw the conclusion it is not in the 942. Most likely is not, but not enough data to make that conclusion. 

Bryan: Every time you touch code in an embedded environment you risk breaking something and no they are not just tweaking setting. 

Guys I know you are frustrated about these issues but lets try and keep the bashing out of here. If you want to vent please do it in the Dish general forum.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Ron,

In my setup, DD worked great with all releases prior to P287. In fact, it STILL works great when it workks. It just seems to be an issue on certain OTA shows at certain times.

For example, now that Conan is presented in HD and DD, the Center Channel is Gone! When I switch to another channel (DD or not), It booms right back. The difference is startling. My only "fix" is to disable DD completely by setting the 811 to PCM-only.

It worked fine until the previous DD issue affecting users of certain DD decoders was "fixed".


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Am using wireless DD/DTS headset. The center channel is comprised, mostly of dialog. I'm experiencing no dialog drop out from any channel.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Moman, 

My gut tells me it is a side effect of the DD changes. Personally I have not seen it yet on my system so it might be receiver dependent. By no means am I doubting you, I am on the west coast. If you can post a programs tonight I will try and check them on my system to see if I see it. I will definitely notice it.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I will check CSI on CBS.

I have no DD for my NBC station. 

And Fox's American Idol and House were just fine.

And you said fox was fine anyways, so I'll let you know.

Sorry for my rumblings earlier as well, and I appretiate you recgonition of my frustrations.

My BSOD problems are totally random and do not happen everytime. Hopefully i'll be able to track down a specific thing that causes it to be able to assist more.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

No. I did a hard reset (power off) a couple of times and it's back to normal for me.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Moman,
> 
> My gut tells me it is a side effect of the DD changes. Personally I have not seen it yet on my system so it might be receiver dependent. By no means am I doubting you, I am on the west coast. If you can post a programs tonight I will try and check them on my system to see if I see it. I will definitely notice it.


Ron,

I'll try my best. Do you know if Fox has any DD planned for tonight? This all depends who actually braodcasts anything in DD. In any event it cannot be my local stations as I did not have the problem before P287 nor do others locally as reported on a local HD Forum.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

The OC is DD 5.1


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually I am trying to see if I see it also watching the same program. If we could find one on a Dish Sat that would be even better. That way we have a case that the Dish team could look at possible. 

John, It would be very interesting to know if you see it again.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

The OC is in DD 5.1 here in St. Louis OTA. Decodes in DD and the Center Channel is working perfectly. Nothing else OTA in DD right now. The more closely I look, the more convinced I am that the DD CC issue is limited to NBC and CBS OTA. My local ABC affiliate has had DD broadcast issues on and off since day-1 so nothing has been in DD on that network recently.

Could this somehow be related to 720p vs 1080i? Who else broadcasts in 1080i?

Just an idea........


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Forget my 1080i theory. I just tuned into Will & Grace on NBC OTA. It's in DD and the Center Channel is working! This pretty much confirms my previous claim that the "disappearing" CC comes and goes by program, not by network. But I cannot decipher the cause.

Did I mention that a cold restart makes no difference?

Aaaarghhhhh!


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Nope no DD5.1 problems here


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

For anyone who cares: Will & Grace in DD had full CC audio. One hour later, ER on same channel has NO audio out of CC. No changes made, not even a channel change. The CC just went dead as soon as the program began.

Good luck figuring this out! I throw up my hands.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Did you check CSI?

It was fine for me.

I don't have a DD NBC station so I cant help you there.

Have you noticed any DD problems on Satellite channels?


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## DCWillia (May 6, 2005)

I have just joined this forum after reading it for a time to report on those annoying dropouts. I seem to be getting them on all channels since my sound just disappears. I have a Yamaha RX-Z1 receiver.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I will check ER tonight since I am on the west coast. Is any of this being seen on Dish channels?

Welcome DCWillia. I think we are talking about loosing Center Channel for the whole length of a show not audio dropouts.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> I will check ER tonight since I am on the west coast. Is any of this being seen on Dish channels?
> 
> Welcome DCWillia. I think we are talking about loosing Center Channel for the whole length of a show not audio dropouts.


Actually the issue is related in what is suspected to be the cause. Will say though,that that is the like one of the most top of the receivers besides John's Meridian that has yet to be reported having issues. I am actually seeing this issue primarily on RaveHD.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Lost me there Jason.... Come again. 

Well I checked out ER on OTA NBC-4 and I DD 5.1 with CC. So it looking more like it is a combination of receiver, 811, and Program content.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Sorry, I yhought I mentioned that CSI also had no CC. It's odd that the issue is only on certain shows on certain networks. I cannot say I ever noticed this on the satellite HD channels. Now I'm looking for it there and will report if it ever appears. But I'm not in the sleuth business and unless Dish comes up with a plan, I cannot go on like this. Too many of the series I enjoy are now in HD and I cannot make use of the DD technology. What's most ironic is that the issue is related to a SATELLITE receiver that apparently cannot properly decode OTA signals. Butr it's the only way I can receive OTA with my HD-ready TV. 

So why should I continue to waste my time when there is nothing in this for Dish when it affects so few subscribers???? One might point fingers and suggest the local stations are not within spec, but I checked with other local users on the AVS HD Forums and this does not seem to be the case.

Ron, I simply have not had the time to call into Dish to report this. Do you have any advise for me? I want to stay with Dish, but the 942 at $700 (assuming it will work correctly with my setup) is not an option at this point. I either need assurance that they can/will fix this, an alternate solution or out of my Agreement (which is just around the corner anyway).


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Jason,

With Rave, I'm losing synch, which is characterized by a click from my processor. I wish I could find a pattern, but to date it seems fairly random. It's annoying, and I figure that eventually it will get figured out. 

I have also tuned from another Sat HD channel to Rave and received no audio.  Using recall to go back to the other Sat HD and returned to Rave got me an audio output.

Weird but true.

Cheers,


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Ron,

Yes it would be interesting to see if I saw it again. 

To be fair, I'm running a fairly complex chain of components, with a bit more that can go wrong than the typical user. The 811 feeds the G91. The G91 acts as a format decoder, and passes the signal to the 861. The 861 acts as an upsampler and performs further signal processing and room correction.

That's a bit more complex than just plug a cable into a receiver and it decodes or not. Couple that with the fact that Meridian is one of the few that actually writes their own decoders for Dolby Digital (and DTS but that's irrelevant) and it adds to the complexity equation.

See page 2 for issues with RaveHD. It's the only Sat channel I'm having dropout issues with.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I think you guys should just try to get your boxes replaced for this issue. I'd rather not have dish trying to "figure" this thing out and end up causing a mess


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

BFG said:


> I think you guys should just try to get your boxes replaced for this issue. I'd rather not have dish trying to "figure" this thing out and end up causing a mess


I do not believe that this is necesarily a 811 specific issue. Though it is being investigated. Too many people are complaining about RaveHD in particuar for this one not to be broadcast related.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

BFG said:


> I think you guys should just try to get your boxes replaced for this issue. I'd rather not have dish trying to "figure" this thing out and end up causing a mess


Nooooooo. I don't want another box. This enterd my world with P287. Also, I have no elaborate setup like the other fellow with the Rave issue. Just an optical cable plugged into a Receiver.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

And, I received a quick Center Channel drop out this evening.

This time though, I managed to jot down the sequence of events.


Tuned to an SD channel on SAT
Selected Guide
Outdated Guide, required download
Downloaded Guide
Selected CBS-HD OTA
No CC
Selected SAT HD channel in DD 5.1, had CC
Returned to CBS-HD
Had CC

With any luck, this sequency might help the software staff track down the problem.

MOMAN, I doubt it has anything to do with the complexity (or lack thereof) of the system.

Cheers,


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Well I've never had the outduted guide problems with P287 so cant make that occur.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

BFG said:


> Well I've never had the outduted guide problems with P287 so cant make that occur.


Then I'm pretty sure you're spending way too much time watching TV 

Cheers,


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

I too, have been getting the Outdated Guide occasionally with P287. This is even though I shut down each evening. I've even gotten this message while surfing on SAT channels. It happens out of the blue, even when I DO NOT get the usual "NO INFO" in the program fields. But I will try to duplicate what John seems to have uncovered. So far though, I have been unable to ever "revive" a dead CC.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

One of the keys to finding a bug is to provide as much information about the events surrounding the anomalous behaviour so that those in the lab can (hopefully) recreate the conditions.

For me, the thing I hate to do most on a reported software problem is to return a ticket with "cannot reproduce". It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

Cheers,


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Another example of CC dropout...


Tuned to OTA station #1, broadcasting a 5.1 signal
Timer set and goes off to tune to OTA station #2
Tuner switches to channel #2
OTA is missing CC information
Switch to different OTA station #3 with channel up
Return to OTA Station #2
CC is now being passed as part of datastream

Cheers,


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Jason & John:

We may have to call off the dogs. John, I see you're located in Granite City, IL. So you're in the save service area as I am. A few fellow observers on the AVS Forum seem to have suddenly come to the realization that there are real CC issues, mostly associated with KSDK-DT Channel 5 (NBC). And some have other receivers! In fact, one has a D* HD TIVO and the other uses Charter Cable. They confirm that Leno and other shows are missing the CC. It sounds as if the station is passing 2.0 audio while sending the DD 5.1 pilot signal. This kills the CC as well as the rears.

I guess I'm so used to beating up on the 811 that it's become a pastime. I think I'm gonna back off for a while and start beating on Channel 5's door. Who knew??????


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Moman:

Ok, but the first incident I reported was with KMOV (CBS), not KSDK 

I also had an incident where I lost OTA signal on KMOV last night, and lost CC, but I didn't report that, as coming back from a dropout, all bets are off


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John Kotches said:


> Moman:
> 
> Ok, but the first incident I reported was with KMOV (CBS), not KSDK
> 
> I also had an incident where I lost OTA signal on KMOV last night, and lost CC, but I didn't report that, as coming back from a dropout, all bets are off


I've noticed occasional CC loss on KMOV too. Not as frequent as Channel 5, but they do have issues too. This may all be coincidence. First, I was sure it was P287 because that's about the time I first noticed the issue. But after seeing that others in St. Louis share this experience on non-811 and non-Dish stuff, how can we blame the box? Stay tuned.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Moman:

The fact that I can tune away from these stations, tune back and get CC info pretty much validates that the Dolby data is correct coming from the broadcaster.

I've reported this to Meridian as well, but I don't think they have a Dish811 or the means to receive OTA from it in the UK


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John Kotches said:


> Moman:
> 
> The fact that I can tune away from these stations, tune back and get CC info pretty much validates that the Dolby data is correct coming from the broadcaster.
> 
> I've reported this to Meridian as well, but I don't think they have a Dish811 or the means to receive OTA from it in the UK


Odd. I have never been able to the revive a dead CC. In fact. I've watched shows on KSDK with perfectly fine CC suddenly lose CC immediately at the top of the hour when one show ends and another begins. Tuning away has never fixed this for me. Who knows why? Too many variables???? When you switch back, make sure you lock-in with DD and not Dolby ProLogic.

If you check the local HD Forum on AVS, you'll find other St. Louis viewers experiencing similar lost CC issues on KSDK-DT via D*, E*, Charter and other OTA receivers. Keep in mind that CC only goes out when decoded in DD 5.1 (I'm pretty sure you know this. Just be sure).

Check this link out. See page 304:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5620967#post5620967


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Besides the sonic differences between 2.0 + PLII vs 5.1, the G91 indicates whether it's decoding a Dolby 2.0 or 5.1 datastream. 

Perhaps you could give me the benefit of the doubt that I might have an idea what I'm talking about? I'm not going to post my CV here at DBS talk, because my participation is as an enthusiast.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John Kotches said:


> Besides the sonic differences between 2.0 + PLII vs 5.1, the G91 indicates whether it's decoding a Dolby 2.0 or 5.1 datastream.
> 
> Perhaps you could give me the benefit of the doubt that I might have an idea what I'm talking about? I'm not going to post my CV here at DBS talk, because my participation is as an enthusiast.


Not doubting you, just reporting what others are reporting. Sorry if it appears otherwise. I tried switching channels and it does not bring back the CC. I wish it did. Like I said, too many variables....each set up is different.

What;s PLII? ...G91? ....CV?


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

moman19 said:


> ....What;s PLII? ....


Dude, even I know that one: "Pro Logic Two". :grin: (Although I did wonder about the others also.  )


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

G91 is the Meridian G91 DVD-Audio/Video/Controller/Tuner. It's the front end decoder.

CV is Curriculum Vitae. It's an expanded resume`. It's my way of saying I have > 40 published reviews on home theater equipment and it's a pretty safe bet I know how to tell whether I'm getting a Dolby stereo or Dolby 5.1 signal in at any point in time.

Cheers,


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John Kotches said:


> G91 is the Meridian G91 DVD-Audio/Video/Controller/Tuner. It's the front end decoder.
> 
> CV is Curriculum Vitae. It's an expanded resume`. It's my way of saying I have > 40 published reviews on home theater equipment and it's a pretty safe bet I know how to tell whether I'm getting a Dolby stereo or Dolby 5.1 signal in at any point in time.
> 
> Cheers,


John,

Thanks for the alphabet soup :lol:

We're probably suffering different ills. I've been in touch with engineers at KSDK (the local NBC affiliate here in St. Louis). They have determined (more or less) that their station somehow transmits the DD decode pilot whenever they broadcast in HD. This happens whether or not the audio component is in DD 5.1 or PLII. Apparently, Leno only contains L + R stereo (at least in this market) and when you pass that thru the DD decode logic of my receiver, the CC as well as the 2 rears go dead.....nothing to modulate them, I guess.

So that's what seems going on around here for the moment. The local station is trying to surpress the DD pilot signal when DD isn't included, and I'm the test rat reporting my findings. Strange, I always thought that shows like Leno's were in HD and DD 5.1. See what happens at your place tonight. I was asked to verify.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

moman says:



> We're probably suffering different ills. I've been in touch with engineers at KSDK (the local NBC affiliate here in St. Louis). They have determined (more or less) that their station somehow transmits the DD decode pilot whenever they broadcast in HD. This happens whether or not the audio component is in DD 5.1 or PLII. Apparently, Leno only contains L + R stereo (at least in this market) and when you pass that thru the DD decode logic of my receiver, the CC as well as the 2 rears go dead.....nothing to modulate them, I guess. So that's what seems going on around here for the moment. The local station is trying to surpress the DD pilot signal when DD isn't included, and I'm the test rat reporting my findings. Strange, I always thought that shows like Leno's were in HD and DD 5.1.


I think something is getting lost in translation. Dolby Digital can be anything from 1.0 (Mono) to 5.1. ATSC (the HDTV broadcast standard) mandates a Dolby Digital broadcast for audio. What isn't mandated is a channel count.

One of two things is happening. (A) NBC network feed is setting the content flag at 5.1 for Leno. (B) KSDK is setting the flag as 5.1. I would venture to say that the latter is the case. I have no way of knowing this for sure, but I know that KMOV is getting the flags right for their shows. As an example 2 1/2 Men broadcasts as Dolby 2.0 and CSI:Miami as 5.1, and these are flagged correctly. The G91 shows them as 2.0 and 5.1 and the 861 applies PLII and nothing (as appropriate) for each of these in turn.

Dolby 2.0 (aka Dolby Surround) is a broadcast (or disc format) ProLogic II is not. PLII is a matrix extraction algorithm.



> See what happens at your place tonight. I was asked to verify.


I won't be able to until tonight.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John,

Thanks for the update. I'll bet the issue is local, but who knows? I too, was unable to check the last night or so. The last time I checked, it still wasn't right. My system isn't as sophisticated as yours, but I can tell you this: For the most past, Whenever KSDK transmits video in HD, my DD pilot light comes on. If the program is announced in 5.1, the audio quality is superb. If the program is in 2.0, the Center Channel and rears are dead and speach is weak....which (i believe) is exactly what is to be expected. They need to figure out a way to NOT send the DD pilot signal whenever 2.0 audio is being sent along with the HD video.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

moman:

It probably is a local issue, however you still don't grasp the issue at hand:



> Thanks for the update. I'll bet the issue is local, but who knows? I too, was unable to check the last night or so. The last time I checked, it still wasn't right. My system isn't as sophisticated as yours, but I can tell you this: For the most past, Whenever KSDK transmits video in HD, my DD pilot light comes on. If the program is announced in 5.1, the audio quality is superb. If the program is in 2.0, the Center Channel and rears are dead and speach is weak....which (i believe) is exactly what is to be expected. They need to figure out a way to NOT send the DD pilot signal whenever 2.0 audio is being sent along with the HD video.


Anytime you are watching an over the air HD station, your "DD Pilot light" should come on. Why? Because the audio stream for ATSC is Dolby Digital. The channel count is anywhere from 1 (1.0) to 6 (5.1).

It probably is a local issue, and it probably is KSDK that is correctly resetting from 5.1 to 2.0 on the flagging.

On the other hand, it could also be that your receiver can't layer ProLogic II on top of Dolby Digital. That would also account for your issue.

Can you please tell me the brand/model of your receiver and I'll find that out.

Cheers,


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John Kotches said:


> moman:
> 
> It probably is a local issue, however you still don't grasp the issue at hand:
> 
> ...


John,

Are you sure that the DD Pilot remains on during ALL HD broadcasts? If so, I have two concerns:
1. Channel 9-1 (PBS) is in HD 24 x 7 but rarely (if ever) do I notice the DD pilot lit. Usually (always??) I see ProLogic Pilot and it sounds fine on my system with good Center info.
2. On the other hand, there are many times/stations when I'm watching an HD program that the Pilot is lit and the program is NOT announced in DD 5.1. Yet it too, still sounds good on my receiver with Center & Rear channels Intact.

So there are discrepancies here. Perhaps it is my receiver, a Pioneer VSX-811S. Granted, not a pricey piece of hardware, but it does a good job and seems to behave perfectly EXCEPT with KSDK-HD non-DD programs (e.g. Leno).

Have you checked the AVS local St. Louis HD Forum? I'm not alone here. Others with all sorts of different hardware are experiencing this same KSDK issue.

The station Engineer informed me that he installed a new Dolby "569" (???) today after finding a problem. I'll let you know what I find later. I'm crossing my fingers. Check it out.


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## slanich (Jul 10, 2002)

Thursday May 19, 2005, 9:00 p.m. EST
CSI on WUSA Channel 9 (Washington, DC) OTA
Software: P287
Hardware: LABD-N
Bootstrap: 1014
Lost center channel audio when the program began. I changed to the sat LIL feed of WUSA, then back to OTA and the problem was fixed and I haven't noticed it since then.
Audio is optical feed into Denon AVR-2802.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

moman19 said:


> John,
> 
> Are you sure that the DD Pilot remains on during ALL HD broadcasts?


Read up on the standards for ATSC broadcasts. If it is being broadcast via ATSC (ie on a digital station) then the audio carrier is Dolby Digital from 1.0 to 5.1. That's the standard.



> If so, I have two concerns:
> 1. Channel 9-1 (PBS) is in HD 24 x 7 but rarely (if ever) do I notice the DD pilot lit. Usually (always??) I see ProLogic Pilot and it sounds fine on my system with good Center info.


Many receivers automatically layer PL / PLII / PLIIx over Dolby Surround (Dolby 2.0) material. I checked KETC at the time I posted, and they are broadcasting a Dolby Digital 2.0 signal. PLII is engaging automatically in my system and that's exactly what should happen with Dolby Surround content.



> 2. On the other hand, there are many times/stations when I'm watching an HD program that the Pilot is lit and the program is NOT announced in DD 5.1. Yet it too, still sounds good on my receiver with Center & Rear channels Intact.


So? You're confusing "not announced" with "not broadcast". They are two different animals.



> So there are discrepancies here. Perhaps it is my receiver, a Pioneer VSX-811S. Granted, not a pricey piece of hardware, but it does a good job and seems to behave perfectly EXCEPT with KSDK-HD non-DD programs (e.g. Leno).


Once again, if it's OTA on a digital station, the audio carrier is DD. There is nothing to discuss. Leno is incorrectly flagged as 5.1 with only L/R content being provided.



> Have you checked the AVS local St. Louis HD Forum? I'm not alone here. Others with all sorts of different hardware are experiencing this same KSDK issue.
> 
> The station Engineer informed me that he installed a new Dolby "569" (???) today after finding a problem. I'll let you know what I find later. I'm crossing my fingers. Check it out.


Specifically with Leno, they are sending out content flagged as 5.1 in the metadata, with only Left/Right channels in the stream. I verified this last week and passed the info along to Jason. There is absolutely nothing Dish can do about this, until such time as KSDK gets the issue straightened out on the broadcast end.

Relying on a "Dolby pilot light" and/or a listing for determining what is or isn't being sent downstream in 5.1 isn't particularly helpful. On the other hand, knowing that the metadata shows the content flagged as 5.1 while only L/R channels are contained within the stream is a bit more useful.

Cheers,


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