# DISH Bill Too High



## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Hello,

The price for DISH per month has become too high for us to afford and I'm looking for suggestions. Our bill went from $137.98 last month to $147.98 this month, due to a $10 "monthly savings" that expired. When the second $10 "monthly savings" expires the price will go up even further, making an already to expensive service even more expensive for us.

We have two 508 receivers, one of which we own and one 311 receiver. We subscribe to America's Everything Pack, which is increasingly disappointing as it's not an accurate description of the package. We have been with DISH for more than 11 years and for the first time we are considering local cable as a cheaper replacement.

The bill breaks down as follows:

America's Everything Pack $124.99
DVR Receiver $ 10.00
Protection Plan $ 8.00
DVR Service $ 7.00
Receiver $ 7.00
----------------------------------
$156.99
DVR Service -$ 10.00
State/Local Taxes $ .99
----------------------------------
$147.98

I suppose we could discontinue the Protection Plan and save $8, but when the second "monthly savings" expires we'll be right back where we are now. I see no point in waiting as the price for America's Everything Pack will likely increase again by then. One thing we will be doing over the next couple of days is taking inventory of the channels we watch and see if we can drop the current package for one that is affordable, while covering some of the channels we frequent.

For over a year we have considered upgrading to HD, but the rising cost for these old 508 SD *buggy* receivers increasingly made that impossible as HD would cost even more. And, we have come to the conclusion that paying $147.98 for over 10 year old technology that hasn't been supported for years is not worth the price.

What would you do?


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## Wilf (Oct 15, 2008)

I can tell you what I did. We have only one DVR with the (I think) Welcome Pak - about $27 per month total. That TV, and two others also have Rokus attached. We subscribe to Netflix and AcornTV. We hardly ever watch the DVR, mostly watching Netflix on iPads. It has become almost impossible to watch old-school TV with commercial breaks anymore. Fortunately not a fan of sports, which has become so commercialized these days that "sport" is a joke.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

Do you really need 4 movie services? America's Top 250 is only $79.99 which is the everything minus the movie channels. You don't need the protection plan on a monthly basis, it can be added if you need it and can be carried for 6 mo. or you can pay an early termination fee that is cheaper than 6 months at $8/mo.


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## Mike.H_DISHNetwork (Feb 1, 2011)

Blowgun said:


> Hello,
> 
> The price for DISH per month has become too high for us to afford and I'm looking for suggestions. Our bill went from $137.98 last month to $147.98 this month, due to a $10 "monthly savings" that expired. When the second $10 "monthly savings" expires the price will go up even further, making an already to expensive service even more expensive for us.
> 
> ...


Hello,
I am more than happy to help you with saving money on your DISH bill per month! Would you please PM me with the phone and 4 digit PIN to further assist you?
Thanks


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> Hello,
> 
> The price for DISH per month has become too high for us to afford and I'm looking for suggestions. Our bill went from $137.98 last month to $147.98 this month, due to a $10 "monthly savings" that expired. When the second $10 "monthly savings" expires the price will go up even further, making an already to expensive service even more expensive for us.
> 
> ...


Just drop down to AT 250. There is one ENCORE channel in it.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

I started by dropping from 250 to 200 and then found that I could easily do without those and dropped to the 150 package. With 3 receivers, my bill is still $110/mo. Couple that with an internet bill and one can easily be looking at high monthly expenses. I think the whole dynamic is changing pretty rapidly. Apple TV, Roku, coupled with <$10/mo services like Netflix, Hulu plus and Amazon Prime can make a big difference. Streaming does pretty well remove the need for DVR in most cases. I already made the move to Ooma on the phone and dropped my monthly phone bill to $4/mo. Seems like a reasonable goal would be to have fast internet (greater than 10 Mb/s) and your Internet, phone and TV services for $100 or less.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> We have two 508 receivers, one of which we own and one 311 receiver.


At some point in the not-too-distant future, DISH will be replacing the 508s with something else that is probably much better so I wouldn't let that issue get the best of you.

If you're absolutely committed to SD, I'd ask DISH about giving you a 625 DVR now.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Thanks guys for your suggstions.

I'll send a PM to the DIRT member. To that point, I have no idea what the PIN number is or where the number can be found. I don't see one on the bill, unless it's something like the last four digits of the account number. Is this something new?

Edit: A search on the DISH website turns up nothing.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

With one SD box (512) and AT200 with a couple of loyalty credits, I'm under $40/mo.

I've got plenty to watch.

Moral of the story, drop the bloat.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The PIN is set in the My Profile tab of the My Account page. They call it the "4-digit Security Code".


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The most obvious points are the $8 for the protection plan and whether you need to be on the "everything" pack or not. You can drop nearly $50 by going to AT250 which gives you everything but those HBO/SHO/MAX/STARZ premiums.

You could save even further by dropping packages lower.

You're lucky in a way... people on lower tiers who feel they are paying too much have far less options to reduce than you do since you're on the top package.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

@SayWhat?
How does one get a loyalty credit? If it involves paying on time, we've never missed a payment.

@harsh
That must be the reason we don't know about the PIN number, we don't have a DISH online account.

@Stewart Vernon
The $8 Protection Plan is definitly going bye-bye. We've paid that for years. Not a good investment.

As to the "Everything" pack, when we first started the pack cost, IIRC, $69.99 and we received every premium movie channel available. Over the years we've watched the price steadly increase and with the exception of Cinemax Latino, Epix Drive-in and MoviePlex, none of the other newer premium movie channels were added. "Everything", from our perspective, appears misleading. Having said that, we do enjoy the channels we do receive. However, that will likely have to change. Which one to keep? I don't know, it's kind of like getting rid of your least favorite child. They all have their good and bad points.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

What premium channels do you think are missing? I don't know off-hand, but I do know each provider is missing a couple of the premium channels available... but for the most part those missing channels are not showing content that isn't also available on the rest of the channels in those premium suites.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

At one time or another I've had HBO, CineMax, Showtime and a few others either as bonus offerings or during the free previews. I can't remember ever watching anything on any of them. While I had the Encore package with AT250, the only channel I watched very much was Westerns. I also watched quite a bit on TCM.

Those are really the only two I missed when I downsized a few months ago.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I have AT250, Blockbuster, and Supers, with one owned 211k, with the outboard harddrive for $96 a month and that works for me. I have the Roku for extra free channels. I could drop to AT200, but I would only save $10 a month. Below that I would lose MSNBC and others, so I keep the packages. Not a bad deal for the number of the channels we get. I just wish the Sports channels were in a separate package, so the bill would be lower, as I do not watch Sports as many of us do not.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

We're paying around $60 for for HD. Not nearly as many channels as you but more than we have any chance of keeping up with.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I especially enjoy the Blockbuster package as the off the wall movie channels runs a lot of movies I have never seen anywhere. Many are not on DVD either. We get the free weekends of HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, and Starz, but I do not find many movies I care for. So in my case, it would not be worth subscribing to them. But I do like Encore's channels and the Blockbuster pack. I have had Dish for 15 years (1999) and I cannot find anything else that compares to them here. We have a choice of a few OTA translators, Direct, cable, or Dish. Dish beats them all hands down.


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## lgb0250 (Jan 24, 2010)

Really surprised to not see a thread like this http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/206404-anyone-call-directv-and-reduce-their-bill-share-stats-here/ in the DISH forums!


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

As stated above -
#1 - does your family really NEED the 4 Premium packages ? there's $50 savings right there.
#2 - If you want HD DVR - ask about getting the 722/722K receivers - dual tuner (supports 1 HD TV and at least 1 SD TV) - AND drops your receiver count (more $). If you don't need the DVR, check out the VIP 222 (same receiver without the DVR capabilities). IF you're satisified with SD DVR - the 625 is a SD Dual tuner DVR that will probably be better than your 2 508's
#3 - besides the movie packages - take a look at your packages and decide if you really need something in AT250 / AT200 etc.
#4 - you've already decided to drop the protection plan.
#5 - do you REALLY need the 311 reciever ? or could it share off a dual tuner as well ?


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 14, 2012)

Paul Secic said:


> Just drop down to AT 250. There is one ENCORE channel in it.


No, America's Top 250 has more than one Encore channel in it. It may have one HD channel of Encore in it, though. Encore (East) is included in HD in America's Top 250, but last time I checked it does not include the SD feed. Encore West, Encore Westerns, Encore Action, Encore Suspense, Encore Black, Encore Classic, and Encore Family are also in America's Top 250. MoviePlex, Epix Drive-In, The Movie Channel (West), and The Movie Channel Xtra (West) are also included in America's Top 250.

There are other ways to get Encore through Dish:

(1) The Encore Movie Pack -- $6/month (if you do not have America's Top 250 or AEP)
includes 341-347 and 377--Encore (West), Encore Westerns, Encore Action, Encore Suspense, Encore Black, Encore Classic, Encore Family, and MoviePlex

(2) Blockbuster @ Home -- $10/month
includes Encore Suspense (channel 344), Starz Cinema (channel 353), MoviePlex, IndiePlex HD, and RetroPlex HD [also includes Hallmark Movie Channel, MAV TV HD, Universal HD, Crime & Investigation HD, Palladia HD, Centric HD, Logo HD, EPIX, EPIX 2, EPIX 3, HDNet Movies, MGM HD, Sony Movie Channel, PixL, World Fishing Network, and FXM]

(3) Starz -- $14/month
includes Encore (East) HD and SD along with Starz (East) HD, Starz (West) HD, Starz Edge HD, Starz Cinema, Starz Comedy HD, Starz in Black, and Starz Kids and Family HD


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 14, 2012)

mwdxer said:


> I have AT250, Blockbuster, and Supers, with one owned 211k, with the outboard harddrive for $96 a month and that works for me. I have the Roku for extra free channels. I could drop to AT200, but I would only save $10 a month. Below that I would lose MSNBC and others, so I keep the packages. Not a bad deal for the number of the channels we get. I just wish the Sports channels were in a separate package, so the bill would be lower, as I do not watch Sports as many of us do not.


msnbc is in America's Top 120, but at one time, you had to have America's Top 200 or above unless you had a lower tiered package that does not connect to the America's Top packages like Welcome Pack.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

When did that happen? It seems it wasn't that long ago I checked and MSNBC was only in 200 and above. I should look again then and see if I want to drop down to a smaller package. Thanks.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I went though the list again to compare AT 250 with AT120+ and I would save $20 a month. However, there are too many channels I would miss that I care about, including FXM and the Encore pak. So I will continue with what I have. Thanks for the info though.


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## Mojo Jojo (Mar 14, 2012)

mwdxer said:


> I went though the list again to compare AT 250 with AT120+ and I would save $20 a month. However, there are too many channels I would miss that I care about, including FXM and the Encore pak. So I will continue with what I have. Thanks for the info though.


FXM is also in Blockbuster @ Home ($10/month...I have read that some remove it or chat and get it for half off for $5/month); Blockbuster @ Home also has Encore Suspense, Starz Cinema, MoviePlex, IndiePlex HD, RetroPlex HD, and other channels (which are in one of my above posts). Encore Movie Pack has all of the Encores (except Encore East) for $6/month, and I have read some getting it half off via chat for $3/month. This would include channels 341-347 and MoviePlex on 377.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stewart Vernon said:


> You can drop nearly $50 by going to AT250 which gives you everything but those HBO/SHO/MAX/STARZ premiums.


WFN (SD version only -- what a shame) is included in AEP while it isn't in AT250. I think this is the only exception.


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

Eventually dish will drop its price I am guessing. If Dish keeps raising its price each year, they are going to lose customers. Is it worth paying $200 a month for cable or I can put $200 dollars in my pocket and get me a car.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The price of cars keeps going up too... What you say would be true in a vacuum... but prices on most things keep going up over time. Is there a limit? Sure... but you're talking as if Dish is going up and nothing else is increasing in price.


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

What I am saying that, once the price reach $200 dollars for programming, that is my cut off point right there. I will turn off my service and get me an off air antenna, I would rather put that extra $200 dollars a month towards a car payment vs something that doesn't have much value anymore.

Have you ever seen Dish come out saying there is going to be a $6 decrease in your monthly bill...no. They are always coming out each year and saying there is going to be a $6 dollar increase in your bill. When is the cutoff point, that subscribers will start disconnecting their service. Well in my opinion dish is very close to losing customers.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

comizzou573 said:


> What I am saying that, once the price reach $200 dollars for programming, that is my cut off point right there. I will turn off my service and get me an off air antenna, I would rather put that extra $200 dollars a month towards a car payment vs something that doesn't have much value anymore.
> 
> Have you ever seen Dish come out saying there is going to be a $6 decrease in your monthly bill...no. They are always coming out each year and saying there is going to be a $6 dollar increase in your bill. When is the cutoff point, that subscribers will start disconnecting their service. Well in my opinion dish is very close to losing customers.


I feel the same with Directv.
$200 is also my cut off.
Then things get dropped.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

comizzou573 said:


> What I am saying that, once the price reach $200 dollars for programming, that is my cut off point right there. I will turn off my service and get me an off air antenna, I would rather put that extra $200 dollars a month towards a car payment vs something that doesn't have much value anymore.
> 
> Have you ever seen Dish come out saying there is going to be a $6 decrease in your monthly bill...no. They are always coming out each year and saying there is going to be a $6 dollar increase in your bill. When is the cutoff point, that subscribers will start disconnecting their service. Well in my opinion dish is very close to losing customers.


+1


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There are less expensive packages and ways of cutting back other than going cold turkey. Cutting back to one receiver (no monthly charge) or a Hopper / Joey combo (charged only for the Joey) would provide content that isn't available OTA.

I'd start with AT200 or AT250 depending on what channels were actually watched and add Blockbuster or one of the premium movie packages if more movies/shows were needed via those channels. One should be able to cut back without cutting off TV.

$2400 per year does buy a lot of other media - Amazon would take half of that, Netflix is cheaper ($120 per year), HULU Plus is less ($96 per year). But would one get what they want to see?

If one is willing to pay $2388 per year ($199 per month) a linear subscription such as DISH seems to be a valuable choice ... especially with the online elements and on demand added to the traditional subscription. But it all depends on what one watches.


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## RBA (Apr 14, 2013)

acostapimps said:


> +1


+2 I have one DVR and one Tivo and welcome pack.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

One really has to add the cost of their internet subscription when you start trading off Dish or another supplier for some of the less expensive monthlies like Netflix, Hulu Plus etc. If the OP doesn't have fast internet then maybe his best bet is to go with the packages he has. Restructuring your entertainment packages takes some time to figure out and get it optimized. It is a lot like ones personal finances. In some ways it is easier to pay the monthly bill and not worry about it as long as the funds are there. Cutting out things you really don't need but have always had or done takes some effort. Kind of like my 24 hr Fitness bill that I have kept paying each month for the last 25 years even though I don't use it. But it is only $9.95/mo and such a deal!!!. DUMB!!!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

All I'm saying is... $200 as a metric on its own means nothing. What if by the time your Dish bill is $200 per month the price of a car per month is $1000? and the price of Netflix is $24.95? Prices go up on lots of stuff... just drawing arbitrary lines in the sand without regard to how it fits into the big picture is meaningless.

My guess is, if your bill is now $125 per month that there would have been a time 10 years ago when you would have said "If my bill is ever $125 I will cancel"... I'm sure we could go back in time and find posts to that effect from lots of people who now that we are 10 years later have changed their stance.

Also, as James says, there are lots of ways to lower your bill and not pay for things you aren't using/watching as much.

TV is a luxury, I keep saying it... it's for entertainment and sometimes education. You have to weigh the entertainment/education value you get vs the money you pay... and consider if there are any other options to give you that over the same period.

As an example... I can buy Mountain Dew for $1.25 for a 2-liter or I can buy the store brand for 67 cents... yeah, it tastes different... but I still get most of the enjoyment factor I want from a beverage with my meals at half the cost... so I have gone generic for many food and beverage purchases. I weighed my options and decided to cut back and also drop down a tier in luxury food consumption to save money.

If you like movies or sports, it's hard to argue you don't save money by subscribing to paytv vs attending live events... if you don't watch a lot of tv, then you probably ought to cut the cord and save money.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> What premium channels do you think are missing?


In keeping with the spirit of the "Everything" pak, for starters I'd like to see the multi-EPIX, HDNet Movies and Sony channels added.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

DoyleS said:


> One really has to add the cost of their internet subscription when you start trading off


Only if you don't already have internet. Otherwise all you would factor in is any increase in speed or capacity directly attributable to streaming.

-----------------

$200/mo for TV? Not happenin'

Once I hit around $70, I started cutting back.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

scooper said:


> As stated above -
> #1 - does your family really NEED the 4 Premium packages ? there's $50 savings right there.


I wouldn't say we "need" the premium channels, but they sure are nice to have. But, they might have to go away. Same with DISH, it might have to go. In a conversation with our local cable company, they are offering two HD receivers for less than what we pay now and said they would throw in some premium channels. I think we have to stay with them for two years to qualify, but that's fine, it's still cheaper.



scooper said:


> #2 - If you want HD DVR - ask about getting the 722/722K receivers - dual tuner (supports 1 HD TV and at least 1 SD TV) - AND drops your receiver count (more $). If you don't need the DVR, check out the VIP 222 (same receiver without the DVR capabilities). IF you're satisified with SD DVR - the 625 is a SD Dual tuner DVR that will probably be better than your 2 508's


What is the difference between the 722 and the 722K receivers?

For that matter, what is the cost difference between having one Hopper or one 722(K)?

The DVR is a must.

All the TVs in the house are HD. The only HD we see is the limited amount of OTA HD channels.

Having HD would be nice.

The 508 receivers are annoyingly bad. Just last night one of the 508 receivers crashed. More specifically, the satellite tuner inside the 508 crashed, as the video repeated the same two still frames endlessly until the recording stopped. The other 508 receiver has an issue under certain circumstances will dump you out of the PVR section (ie: schedule or timer) back to live TV instead of returning back to the previously view section. Then there's the other 24 firmware bugs that were never fixed. Like the original air date always showing the year *2155* and the episode showing *15871* during playback.



scooper said:


> #3 - besides the movie packages - take a look at your packages and decide if you really need something in AT250 / AT200 etc.


We are going through that now. Turns out that we watch/record a lot of channels.



scooper said:


> #4 - you've already decided to drop the protection plan.


Yeah, that's going to go. But, only if that doesn't cause us to lose the remaining $10 credit due to an account change. Otherwise, it will end up costing us more.

And that's another thing that bugs me. When we started with these receivers 11+ years ago there wasn't a DVR or extra receiver fee. IIRC, to mitigate the wrath of people upset with DISH changing the grandfathered receiver rules, DISH added the credit. Having the so-called credits expire is BS.



scooper said:


> #5 - do you REALLY need the 311 receiver ? or could it share off a dual tuner as well ?


The 311 receiver is not needed. For quite awhile I've wanted to run signal into the shared wall from the 508.

If price wasn't a concern, what I would liked to do is replace all current receivers with two *isolated* Hoppers. Each Hopper would share the HD output with a TV in an adjacent room through HDMI splitters or the like. But, I don't know if that would be any cheaper than what we currently have.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Is "_Mike.H_DISHNetwork_" still around? Or any other DISH representative?

Haven't heard anything regarding contacting him without a PIN?


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

James Long said:


> There are less expensive packages and ways of cutting back other than going cold turkey. Cutting back to one receiver (no monthly charge) or a Hopper / Joey combo (charged only for the Joey) would provide content that isn't available OTA.
> 
> I'd start with AT200 or AT250 depending on what channels were actually watched and add Blockbuster or one of the premium movie packages if more movies/shows were needed via those channels. One should be able to cut back without cutting off TV.
> 
> ...


If I am going to downgrade, I will do it by disconnecting my service. The less expensive package is still crap, why would you want to pay $80 dollars for tbs, tnt, and other crap station. The value of watching tv is decreasing, there is nothing interesting to watch anymore on tv.The only market that dish will retain is the RVers, but they screwed over the RVers by stopping distant networks.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

Actually, quite a few of us RV'ers don't mind spending 5 minutes in a chat session or on the phone with CS to change our service address as needed to get the locals. Personally, I much prefer seeing the local news and weather in HD where I am rather than the generic coverage from NY or LA that DNS offered in SD only.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Blowgun said:


> In keeping with the spirit of the "Everything" pak, for starters I'd like to see the multi-EPIX, HDNet Movies and Sony channels added.


Those are part of an add-on package (Blockbuster) that is an add-on for everyone, in a similar way that multi-sport is.

The "Everything" pack also doesn't include free PPV or other standalone offerings either. It might be slightly misnamed, but I don't think it has ever been "everything" in that sense if that is what you're expecting.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

I imagine that at it's most basic level, all packages are constructed by certain DISH employees that basically say, 'this channel goes here and that channel goes there'. The channels I included in my reply are in the *spirit* of the "Everything" pak. This is why I didn't specifically exclude porn, PPV, sports and other channels like those. It was easier to include a couple of channels what would match other channels already offered in the package.

The "Everything" pak never included everything. For the most part, it is a static package that, not including the over $50 price increase, has changed very little over the years. So, no I don't expect the package to include everything, but it would be nice to see some relevant channels added for once.

I'm curious, do DIRT forum members have some sort of special account privilege where they mark a thread theirs that prevents other DIRT forum members from contributing to a thread?

Reason why I ask is, "Mike.H_DISHNetwork" hasn't been on-line for 6 days and no other DIRT forum member has taken it upon their own to addressed the question I raised in my previous post.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You can always look at the sticky-post in this forum:

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/195079-dish-internet-response-team-dirt-contact-information/

and you can send a PM to any DIRT member you want to if you're not getting a response.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

James Long said:


> $2400 per year does buy a lot of other media - Amazon would take half of that, Netflix is cheaper ($120 per year), HULU Plus is less ($96 per year). But would one get what they want to see?


Um... Amazon Prime is $1200 a year? Since when?

The point about cars is a good one. Yes, the price of cars has gone up. I have a VCR tape somewhere that I made in high school where a brand new pickup was selling for $4995. But the price of cars has NOT gone up as fast as pay television. Not even close. And both cars and television today are much better than they used to be, so neither is a static entity. But just as there aren't that many new places to go in whatever car you buy, there really aren't any more hours in the day to watch television.

The cost/value equation keeps shifting, and as long as broadcast television remains free, it will become a more and more attractive option as long as the cost of pay television keeps exceeding the rate of inflation. Add streaming to the mix and it's a serious threat to the traditional pay TV model. I've gone without pay TV before, and I probably will again. I just subscribed to the basic package with my phone company for football season. Beyond that, I don't know. Even $70/month is hard to justify.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sregener said:


> Um... Amazon Prime is $1200 a year? Since when?


Oops ... I misread that price. 

Current price $99/Year (not per month).


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> You can always look at the sticky-post in this forum:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/195079-dish-internet-response-team-dirt-contact-information/
> 
> and you can send a PM to any DIRT member you want to if you're not getting a response.


I understand you are being as helpful as I am frustrated. Clearly, I'm not getting a response. That's why I asked two days ago if DIRT forum members have "_some sort of special account privilege where they mark a thread theirs that prevents other DIRT forum members from contributing to a thread_". Sure seems that way.

What I know to be factual from this side of the screen is, someone representing DISH said to contact them and then completely disappeared. Additionally, not one of the other 16 DISH representatives has take it upon themselves to address the issue. Which, as a representative of DISH here in the forum, doesn't shine a good light on DISH as a whole. This has become nothing more than the forum version of the Customer Service Roulette by phone game. So who do I send a PM to or should I just send a PM to all of them and keep my fingers crossed that one DISH representative responds in time? Which, nearly has run out just waiting for one DISH representative to respond.

IMO, what the DBSTalk forum desperately needs is a DIRT member rating system. Some of the questions for the rating system include *punctuality*, *initiative* and *results*. Right now they would all flunk as there has been a failure of all three demonstrated right here in this thread and noted by other people both public and in private.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Blowgun said:


> @SayWhat?
> How does one get a loyalty credit? If it involves paying on time, we've never missed a payment.
> 
> @harsh
> ...


You do get "everything" a SD receiver can get. The channels you mention are HD only IIRC.

I jumped on the "HD Free for Life" when it was offered, even though I did not yet own an HDTV.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Blowgun said:


> I imagine that at it's most basic level, all packages are constructed by certain DISH employees that basically say, 'this channel goes here and that channel goes there'. The channels I included in my reply are in the *spirit* of the "Everything" pak. This is why I didn't specifically exclude porn, PPV, sports and other channels like those. It was easier to include a couple of channels what would match other channels already offered in the package......


Those actually are not like channels traditionally offered in the Everything Pack. Everything Pack has included Premium movie channels, Epix and the others are not Premium movie channels . Just because they are sold separately doesn't make them considered a Premium movie channel.
The Premium name is a reason why Starz was not happy they were being given away for a year by DISH and why HBO has been so protective of how it is sold. Epix is available in many forms for instance, including in packages such as Blockbuster, and in some regular packages on Cable. The true premiums are in a tier by themselves. The Everything Pack has never included those type of channels.

That said, I agree it is time for a name change, and give a discount as in the past.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Did you actually PM Mike as he requested? I'm neither supporting nor dissing the DIRT rep... but based on your other replies where he asked for you to PM with your account and PIN it doesn't sound like you ever PMed him.

Without your account # and PIN he isn't going to be able to help you... if you don't have a PIN or have forgotten it, then I think you can call and have them generate a new one but I believe in such a case they have to mail it to your service address... at least that's how it works with other companies.

IF you haven't PMed him and are just posting in the thread, he might be waiting to hear from you via PM.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> I asked two days ago if DIRT forum members have "_some sort of special account privilege where they mark a thread theirs that prevents other DIRT forum members from contributing to a thread_". Sure seems that way.


To answer the question: The only privilege DIRT members get is the special "badge" image and text on their account that identifies them as an employee of DISH that is part of the DIRT team. There are no special privileges or limitations on their accounts. DBSTalk's software does not prevent more than one DIRT member from participating in any thread.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Michael P said:


> You do get "everything" a SD receiver can get. The channels you mention are HD only IIRC.


According to the current channel lineup PDF that I downloaded from DISH, the channels I mentioned are available in HD, but they are not HD only.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> According to the current channel lineup PDF that I downloaded from DISH, the channels I mentioned are available in HD, but they are not HD only.


Are they the Blockbuster channels? If so, they are not included in "everything". They are a separate $10 package.

If you want DISH to raise the price another $10 for every AEP subscriber they could force AEP subscribers to buy the Blockbuster package. As it stands, the "almost everything package" remains AT250+all four premium movie packages ... All channels added to the premium movie packages have been added to AEP. All channels added to AT250 have been added to AEP. If you want the Blockbuster channels you can get them without forcing every AEP subscriber to pay for them. (BTW: Just EPIX is available for $7 per month.)

AEP was $69.99 without local channels when introduced in 2001. It is now $124.99 ... a $55 increase that reflects $5 for locals, a $40 in increase to AT250 since 2001 and $9 in increase to the premium movie packages. In 2001 adding four premium packages cost $35.99 ... the price is now $45. A subscriber since 2001 has lost a 99c discount (plus other perks DISH once gave to AEP subscribers).


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

tampa8 said:


> Those actually are not like channels traditionally offered in the Everything Pack. Everything Pack has included Premium movie channels, Epix and the others are not Premium movie channels. Just because they are sold separately doesn't make them considered a Premium movie channel.


The channels I mentioned, even-though they show uncut and uninterrupted movies like Premium channels and probably years ago would have been classified as premium channels, are not Premium channels. However, Encore and all of it's associated channels are not "traditional" premium channels and they're included in the Everything pak. Epix Drive-in channel, which is part of Epix(1,2,3), is not in the "Traditional" premium channel and that's included in the Everything pak. Regardless of how they are classified, as outlined there is already a precedent set that would allow those channels getting included in the Everything pak.



tampa8 said:


> That said, I agree it is time for a name change, and give a discount as in the past.


The Everything pak sure asks a premium price.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Did you actually PM Mike as he requested? I'm neither supporting nor dissing the DIRT rep... but based on your other replies where he asked for you to PM with your account and PIN it doesn't sound like you ever PMed him. Without your account # and PIN he isn't going to be able to help you....


Exactly. There was no point in sending a PM just yet because I couldn't provide the PIN. As of this writing, his online status shows he hasn't been online since August 14th, 9 days ago. So, if I had sent him a PM, and if he had been online to receive the PM -- he couldn't have helped. Which is why I asked 5 days ago:

_Is "Mike.H_DISHNetwork" still around? Or any other DISH representative?

Haven't heard anything regarding contacting him without a PIN?_

I had hoped one of the other 16 DIRT representatives would have stepped up to fill that void and assisted. Even to this day, that still hasn't happened.

Having said that, while it's counterproductive for DISH, the DISH representatives have no obligation to help any DISH subscriber. So, here I am out of time, out of money and out of patience.



Stewart Vernon said:


> ...if you don't have a PIN or have forgotten it, then I think you can call and have them generate a new one but I believe in such a case they have to mail it to your service address... at least that's how it works with other companies.


My account predates PIN numbers and I haven't contacted DISH since PIN numbers were introduced. I suppose alternatively I could send the RO number and location ID. But, I don't know since at this point it's all guesswork.



Stewart Vernon said:


> IF you haven't PMed him and are just posting in the thread, he might be waiting to hear from you via PM.


Maybe. But, commonsense and a little initiative would suggest that a check of the thread might be in order if he was actually concerned that he hadn't heard from me.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> To answer the question: The only privilege DIRT members get is the special "badge" image and text on their account that identifies them as an employee of DISH that is part of the DIRT team. There are no special privileges or limitations on their accounts. DBSTalk's software does not prevent more than one DIRT member from participating in any thread.


Thank you for clearing that up.


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## lgb0250 (Jan 24, 2010)

What am I missing here? Are you not able to just pick up the phone and call DISH and negotiate a better price? It sure works on Directv. I've had DISH in the past but that was when I was still working and money was no object. Now that I'm retired I call Directv probably once a year and receive some pretty decent concessions from them. I've been getting ready to switch back to DISH but if they have an iron fist on pricing I guess I will probably reconsider.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> If you want DISH to raise the price another $10 for every AEP subscriber they could force AEP subscribers to buy the Blockbuster package.


Or, they could keep the price for AEP the same and include the channels I mentioned. Or, because there are duplicate channels in Blockbuster that are already included in AEP, if you already have AEP they could lower the price for Blockbuster. Heck, that might even encourage people to upgrade, who knows. All I'm saying is force is not the only option.



James Long said:


> AEP was $69.99 without local channels when introduced in 2001. It is now $124.99 ... a $55 increase that reflects $5 for locals, a $40 in increase to AT250 since 2001 and $9 in increase to the premium movie packages. In 2001 adding four premium packages cost $35.99 ... the price is now $45. A subscriber since 2001 has lost a 99c discount (plus other perks DISH once gave to AEP subscribers).


It's interesting that DISH is currently charging new subscribers to AEP $89.99 per month for 12 months. If someone was willing to take the time to float every couple of years, there are big savings to be had. But, be a loyal customer who pays their full price bill on time for over a decade and you can't even get a representative to reply back to you.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

lgb0250 said:


> Are you not able to just pick up the phone and call DISH and negotiate a better price?


I guess I'll find out Monday.


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## RBL (Aug 21, 2014)

Blowgun said:


> I guess I'll find out Monday.


You're not trying ... you're arguing on a forum. When you get off the rant you will likely get the sought after result - but it damn sure will not be from DIRT.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> The "Everything" pak never included everything. For the most part, it is a static package that, not including the over $50 price increase, has changed very little over the years. So, no I don't expect the package to include everything, but it would be nice to see some relevant channels added for once.


I almost agree with you. The difference between DISH's version and DIRECTV's version is that DIRECTV includes the SPORTS PACK. They relegate the "second tier" movie channels to an obcure add-on package.

I'm still not happy that DISH jacked the price of adding Playboy from $7 to $16.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> Or, they could keep the price for AEP the same and include the channels I mentioned. Or, because there are duplicate channels in Blockbuster that are already included in AEP, if you already have AEP they could lower the price for Blockbuster. Heck, that might even encourage people to upgrade, who knows. All I'm saying is force is not the only option.


AEP itself once came with a discount. I do not see DISH adding more channels without adding more price.



Blowgun said:


> It's interesting that DISH is currently charging new subscribers to AEP $89.99 per month for 12 months. If someone was willing to take the time to float every couple of years, there are big savings to be had. But, be a loyal customer who pays their full price bill on time for over a decade and you can't even get a representative to reply back to you.


DIRT replied to your thread post and asked you for more information. As far a you have reported you never PM'd Mike to say "hey, I can't find the PIN" (even though it can be found or set by logging in to your account online).

New customer prices are always better than existing customers ... even with other providers. Some providers offer discounts to customers who call in and complain about the prices. DISH has offered new customer upgrades to existing customers ... but offers are individual - one has to contact DISH one on one.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It's probably a fair point to add... these DIRT reps are also participating on other forums, including Dish's own support site... and I'm pretty sure they have traditional CSR duties as well to take calls and do other things in the office... so while they have a presence here I wouldn't expect them to be 24/7 monitoring every thread or to keep asking someone to contact them who thus far has not. Also, this forum has a notifications feature such that IF you PM a user (like a DIRT rep) who is offline, they get an email to let them know they have a PM... and then that user has a reason to check back sooner than he might otherwise.

From where I'm standing here, it seems like the DIRT rep reached out and asked you to contact him... and you haven't done so. I would have sent a PM immediately and given my account number and explained you don't have a PIN. If you truly don't have one on your account, he would be able to see that... but he kind of can't help you without you helping him at this point... so if he is busy helping others who did contact him with info, he might not have a chance to randomly follow up with people who haven't contacted him with more info.

We can argue all day about why the everything pack doesn't have "everything" but it never did... it likely never will. It also doesn't have the International channels in it... and I'm sure some International-channel subscribers want to know their "everything" pack doesn't include their country's channels when it already does have similar content with things like Univision in it... so it's kind of a pointless discussion about what should or shouldn't be in a particular package or tier of channels.

It seems like your pricing discussion should first be about what do you have to have... what channels can't you live without... and then whether or not Dish might extend some discount to you as well. Some of that you have to decide for yourself. The DIRT rep isn't going to put more channels in the Everything pack for you or anyone else... but you don't know what they might be able to do if you aren't willing to contact them and ask.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> DIRT replied to your thread post and asked you for more information. As far a you have reported you never PM'd Mike to say "hey, I can't find the PIN" (even though it can be found or set by logging in to your account online).


9 days ago I said I didn't have a PIN and do not have an online account. If there was more to that, no one has said anything. In a different thread, 'Becki from DISH' said all she needs for account access is the "account or phone number", no PIN. So who knows what the heck is going on.



James Long said:


> DISH has offered new customer upgrades to existing customers ... but offers are individual - one has to contact DISH one on one.


I see, so basically it's best to contact DISH by phone in order to have a one on one. Will do. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

RBL said:


> You're not trying ... you're arguing on a forum. When you get off the rant you will likely get the sought after result....


I wouldn't call that arguing or ranting. Instead, disagreeing and chatting. What takes place in a discussion.



RBL said:


> but it damn sure will not be from DIRT.


I see that now, Mr. Long has also said as much.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> ...so while they have a presence here I wouldn't expect them to be 24/7 monitoring every thread or to keep asking someone to contact them who thus far has not.


"Keep asking"? That would imply more than one post in this thread from a DISH representative and that's certainly not the case.



Stewart Vernon said:


> Also, this forum has a notifications feature such that IF you PM a user (like a DIRT rep) who is offline, they get an email to let them know they have a PM... and then that user has a reason to check back sooner than he might otherwise.


Forgot about that. Of course, that assumes that they have the option set.



Stewart Vernon said:


> From where I'm standing here, it seems like the DIRT rep reached out and asked you to contact him... and you haven't done so.


For reasons already stated.



Stewart Vernon said:


> I would have sent a PM immediately and given my account number and explained you don't have a PIN. If you truly don't have one on your account, he would be able to see that... but he kind of can't help you without you helping him at this point... so if he is busy helping others who did contact him with info, he might not have a chance to randomly follow up with people who haven't contacted him with more info.


I guess we should disregard the other 16 people milling about.



Stewart Vernon said:


> We can argue all day about why the everything pack doesn't have "everything" but it never did... it likely never will.... so it's kind of a pointless discussion about what should or shouldn't be in a particular package or tier of channels.


I mentioned it, but you asked me "What premium channels do you think are missing", so I answered your question.



Stewart Vernon said:


> It seems like your pricing discussion should first be about what do you have to have... what channels can't you live without... and then whether or not Dish might extend some discount to you as well. Some of that you have to decide for yourself. The DIRT rep isn't going to put more channels in the Everything pack for you or anyone else... but you don't know what they might be able to do if you aren't willing to contact them and ask.


I agree about taking channel inventory. I was more than willing to contact them. However, I'm now going to do a "one on one" with a phone rep this coming Monday. I'll find out more then.

I'd like to take this opportunity and thank everyone for their replies.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> > but it damn sure will not be from DIRT.
> 
> 
> I see that now, Mr. Long has also said as much.


NO! Don't drag my name into your complaints against DISH.

YOU are the one who needs to make the effort. YOU are the one who needs to follow up with a PM to Matt (as he requested) or any other DIRT representative (as was suggested). YOU are the one asking for something special from DISH (a discount or personal help with your account). YOU need to do the work.

If I need to be any clearer about that please let me know.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Blowgun said:


> My account predates PIN numbers and I haven't contacted DISH since PIN numbers were introduced. I suppose alternatively I could send the RO number and location ID. But, I don't know since at this point it's all guesswork.


I believe you can create one after you log in to your account on the Dish website.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> I believe you can create one after you log in to your account on the Dish website.


The PIN issue has been taken care of. Thanks for the help.

As suggested, I talked to someone on the phone at DISH, one on one. They were able to drop the bill by about $40 and I was able to keep the existing channels -- something about setting up the account differently. I mentioned the protection plan and was told that because I paid into it for such a long time that he would just throw that in and give me HD for life. The tech appointment is for tomorrow to replace all receivers with two new Hoppers with Slings.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Blowgun said:


> The PIN issue has been taken care of. Thanks for the help.
> 
> As suggested, I talked to someone on the phone at DISH, one on one. They were able to drop the bill by about $40 and I was able to keep the existing channels -- something about setting up the account differently. I mentioned the protection plan and was told that because I paid into it for such a long time that he would just throw that in and give me HD for life. The tech appointment is for tomorrow to replace all receivers with two new Hoppers with Slings.


Great news! HD for Life is essential if you truly want "everything". Now you just need an HD receiver.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Michael P said:


> Great news! HD for Life is essential if you truly want "everything". Now you just need an HD receiver.


The installation went smoothly. The old dish was replaced, a dual Node installed and the old receivers were replaced with two new isolated Hoppers with slings. Both Hoppers are independently connected to two AVRs with HDMI cables, which in turn are connected to two HD TVs with HDMI cables.

I have seen a few expected oddities. Such as when I'm navigating the guide the Hopper after awhile will decide on it's own to go back to Live TV. There doesn't seem to be a way to force a guide update like on the 508. No setting to stop the Hopper from turning off when a button on the remote isn't pushed for awhile. I don't know if that's power saving, or what. Some descriptions in the INFO screen are cut off even though there is plenty of room available. Auto-Tune doesn't work as expected The guide displays some of our local channels wrong (already reported). I wish the sub-channels were available, but I get most of them OTA. Something that only happened only during playback of a specific recorded event, the sound cut out a couple of times for a few seconds. Going back each time and playing through again a second time the sound was present. Turning off the receiver and seeing "press select to watch TV" on the screen I find pointless. There's a few other minor annoyances. But, overall what a difference in picture quality and functionality than what I was use to experiencing.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Blowgun said:


> I have seen a few expected oddities.


For what it's worth... you will see some oddities for the first couple of days while the receiver is updating and downloading various things from the SAT connection to update itself.



Blowgun said:


> There doesn't seem to be a way to force a guide update like on the 508.


It's like the 922 receiver in that regard... even if you run a checkswitch, it doesn't force an EPG update. However, the Hopper seems to randomly update its EPG while in standby I believe so you can sometimes put it into standby if you aren't watching TV and see if that begins.



Blowgun said:


> No setting to stop the Hopper from turning off when a button on the remote isn't pushed for awhile. I don't know if that's power saving, or what.


Not power saving so much as screen saving... but you can disable this the same way as in other Dish DVRs. Its the "inactivity timeout" feature and should be in the settings area of the Menu.



Blowgun said:


> Auto-Tune doesn't work as expected


How did it work for you? And how did you expect it to work?

What it should do is wake the receiver (if the receiver was in standby) and tune to the channel you selected when defining the timer.



Blowgun said:


> Turning off the receiver and seeing "press select to watch TV" on the screen I find pointless.


What do you want it to say? It's a screen saver while in standby... it's going to say something, why not tell you how to wake it from standby?


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> For what it's worth... you will see some oddities for the first couple of days while the receiver is updating and downloading various things from the SAT connection to update itself.


I don't know if any or all of these are part of those oddities, but the late night talk shows have partial descriptions from the previous episode. For example, here's what is included in the description for this coming Monday's episode of The _Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson_:

Gloria Estefan - Debra Winger - Switchfoot
S10, Ep212
Series/Special. Actor Ray Liotta; actress Annaleigh Ashford. New. Season Premiere.
The entire first line (Gloria Estefan, etc) aired last Friday. This is happening with ABC, NBC and CBS, both the 11:35pm and 12:35am slots are wrong in the same manor.

I also noticed that a movie which I set to record at 12:45am was getting counted twice as part of the today and tomorrow recording schedule totals.

I noticed that you do not get the hard drive space back immediately when a recording is deleted *and* removed from Deleted Recordings. The space does eventually return some hours later. For example, I went to sleep last night with 8 percent used on the hard drive and woke up hours later with 3 percent.

The way the 508 use to display theme searches was much easier to use. The Hopper takes a simple idea and makes it overly complicated for what seems like no other reason than pretty tiles. Functionally, it's a PITA to use. Speaking of which, I was sad to see that 'detail' sorting was not an additional option for how recordings are displayed. The ability to sort in a more useful way is already there in other screens such as the Daily Schedule and Timers.

The way the 508 use to display the CD audio and to a lessor extent the SiriusXM channels, was much better. For example, the 508 included labels for title, song, LP and record company -- then after the colon placed the relevant information (if needed) across the entire width of the screen. And, that was with a 4:3 display. The Hopper uses nearly half of the screen width just to display the "DISHcd" box. With the larger font and the 'safe viewing area' rules in fully in place, that doesn't leave much room for the actual information.

The 508 use to give a 5 minute warning before a timer was to fire. That was later changed to 3 minutes. I swear on the Hopper that's now 1 minute or less. I just had such a situation happen for a timer that was set for Noon and when I looked at the clock, it was already Noon. Not much time to read what it says on the screen and react accordingly.

I'd like to see the UI cleaned up of unnecessary clutter. For example, if PrimeTime Anytime is disabled in settings, constant reminders in various locations, including a screen that will never populate, is messy and inefficient.

I'd like to see an additional option added to Info when the info screen is displayed for a program that is currently airing. For example, you bring up the EPG and only move up two channels in the EPG and press Info. There are sometimes two options that are displayed, "Record Series" and "Record This", the latter being the default. I think as long as the Info screen is displaying current programing, the default should be "Watch This".

Even though the error was reported days ago, after several EPG updates, the EPG still shows the wrong network associated with the program information.

Having said that, the good far out weighs the bad.



Stewart Vernon said:


> It's like the 922 receiver in that regard... even if you run a checkswitch, it doesn't force an EPG update. However, the Hopper seems to randomly update its EPG while in standby I believe so you can sometimes put it into standby if you aren't watching TV and see if that begins.


With the 508 all you had to do is run the EPG all the way to the end. If it was outdated, it would inform you and give you the option to update the EPG. It was simple and made sense. You're in the EPG, at the end, it's outdated. Update? Yes. Done. 

Yeah, it seems that it will randomly check for updates when in standby. The screen saver if necessary reports the firmware version and the EPG download percentage. As of this writing, both are current.

The Hopper will also at a most inconvenient time ask you if it's OK to go into standby to check for updates. I could start playback of a previously recorded event on the 508 and update the guide at the same time. Although it wasn't a recommended method, even the 508 with it's single tuner could be tricked into updating the EPG and let you watch live TV at the same time. The Hopper has three tuners. Put one of the other available turners to work and stop bothering me.



Stewart Vernon said:


> Not power saving so much as screen saving... but you can disable this the same way as in other Dish DVRs. Its the "inactivity timeout" feature and should be in the settings area of the Menu.


The only problem is, disabling the inactivity timer doesn't appear to work. Here's an example in case I'm misunderstanding the function of disabling the inactivity timer.

I have a timer set to record the 11 o'clock news. So, two nights ago at about 11:45pm I started playback of the recording. During the first commercial break I paused playback at the very moment the commercial faded out completely. (I know it doesn't know the difference, but I wanted the TV dark.) I then left the room and returned 5 minutes later only to find that the Hopper had slipped into screen saver/standby mode. As instructed on the screen, I pressed the Select button to watch TV. The Hopper, now out of it's self-induced coma, displayed live TV. I had to go back to My Recordings and resume the playback, which by the way, did not resume from where I had left the Hopper on pause earlier.

Thinking that the setting didn't "stick", I went into 'Settings -> Diagnostics -> Updates' and enabled the 'Inactivity Standby' and saved the settings. I then immediately went back into 'Updates' and again disabled 'Inactivity Standby' and saved.

Last night I was watching a live program. This time I didn't press pause, I simply got up and left the room for about 7 minutes. When I returned the Hopper was in screen saver/standby mode. I pressed the Select button to wake up the Hopper. Unfortunately, when the Hopper goes into screen saver/standby mode the 1 hour buffer is lost.

I don't believe I'm doing this wrong.



Stewart Vernon said:


> How did [Auto-Tune] work for you? And how did you expect it to work? What it should do is wake the receiver (if the receiver was in standby) and tune to the channel you selected when defining the timer.


Back on the 508, I set a couple of one minute manual auto-tune timers throughout the coarse of the week. The reason for the one minute timer was due to the way the 508 worked. If the auto-tune was set for the entire duration of the event, even though it wasn't recording, if you changed channels or played back a recorded event, it would ask you to switch to Live mode. So, the one minute timer was a get-around. It was long enough to change the channel automatically, but short enough to not get in the way of something else.

Doing the same thing on the Hopper resulted in the channel getting changed, but for only one minute, then it returned to whatever the previous channel was that it switched away from. I need to double-check this, because later I set an auto-tune timer for the full duration of the event and when the event was over, the channel stayed.



Stewart Vernon said:


> What do you want [the receiver] to say? It's a screen saver while in standby... it's going to say something, why not tell you how to wake it from standby?


The receiver doesn't have to say something, the receiver can just turn off.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> The receiver doesn't have to say something, the receiver can just turn off.


Receivers don't turn off ... they just go into standby. I can't remember having a receiver that turned off. Standby with a screen saver is standard.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Blowgun said:


> I also noticed that a movie which I set to record at 12:45am was getting counted twice as part of the today and tomorrow recording schedule totals.


I can't speak to EPG entries for various channels, some might be wrong regardless of the receiver. That happens sometimes, and isn't receiver specific. I kind of ignore the timer counts on the daily history of my 922, so they might be counting some things wrong too. I honestly never had a reason to notice if it is... and I mention the 922 since it has similar firmware running as does the Hopper.



Blowgun said:


> I noticed that you do not get the hard drive space back immediately when a recording is deleted *and* removed from Deleted Recordings. The space does eventually return some hours later. For example, I went to sleep last night with 8 percent used on the hard drive and woke up hours later with 3 percent.


This is typical... Modern computers don't delete immediately because then you'd have to wait for that to complete before you did anything else... so it does the quick stuff immediately, then does the "hard" delete in the background... which takes longer, but at least doesn't prevent you from doing other things in the meantime.



Blowgun said:


> The 508 use to give a 5 minute warning before a timer was to fire. That was later changed to 3 minutes. I swear on the Hopper that's now 1 minute or less. I just had such a situation happen for a timer that was set for Noon and when I looked at the clock, it was already Noon. Not much time to read what it says on the screen and react accordingly.


The warning should come a minute or two before your timer is about to fire... so if you have a timer set to fire exactly at noon, then it wouldn't warn you until a little before that... but if your timer is going to start early, it would warn you before the early start. It obviously doesn't warn you if it is going to use a tuner you aren't watching... but when it needs the one you are watching, it seems like a minute or so is all the warning you should need. IF you aren't getting that warning, then you might have an issue.



Blowgun said:


> The receiver doesn't have to say something, the receiver can just turn off.


It actually can't. Since the advent of the remote control, nothing has ever turned fully off anymore. IF it truly turned off, then you couldn't wake it with the remote. Instead, it goes into standby. And a DVR needs to be able to fire off recordings while in standby, so it really isn't doing much less in standby than it does when on.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I can't speak to EPG entries for various channels, some might be wrong regardless of the receiver. That happens sometimes, and isn't receiver specific.


In general, there is a discouraging amount of wrong information that can be found in the EPG regardless of the receiver. Further, to see DISH's flagship receiver still not able to display more of the EPG description from the INFO screen, when there is clearly ample unused space, is disappointing. Maybe there's a reason for that, I don't know, but if the description is long enough it ends abruptly with a ellipsis.

Back to the issue, the main qualification to experiencing this issue is possessing a receiver that can display tiles for each channel in the EPG. Secondarily, receive the same local channels where the error occurs. It's beginning to look like level 1 never sent the report. Is "DishQuality" still around? I think the echostar e-mail address I have is their old one. If it's different and you have it, would you mind sharing their new e-mail address?



Stewart Vernon said:


> I kind of ignore the timer counts on the daily history of my 922, so they might be counting some things wrong too. I honestly never had a reason to notice if it is... and I mention the 922 since it has similar firmware running as does the Hopper.


For me, things like that just jump off the screen. I wish I could ignore them, but I can't.



Stewart Vernon said:


> This is typical... Modern computers don't delete immediately because then you'd have to wait for that to complete before you did anything else... so it does the quick stuff immediately, then does the "hard" delete in the background... which takes longer, but at least doesn't prevent you from doing other things in the meantime.


Every computer I have used will delete a file and return free space almost immediately. I could see if the Hopper was deleting a large amount of small files or doing data sanitization, but I doubt that's what's happening. Otherwise, it takes a trivial amount of time to mark space free. It sounds more like a limitation in the OS and not the file system.

BTW, when the Hopper is busy the screen will dim, and one at a time the six gray squares that appears will turn green, in a continuous scrolling effect. You can continue to use the Hopper while this is going on. It would seem the Hopper already has a way of doing things immediately in the background, instead of hours later.



Stewart Vernon said:


> The warning should come a minute or two before your timer is about to fire... so if you have a timer set to fire exactly at noon, then it wouldn't warn you until a little before that... but if your timer is going to start early, it would warn you before the early start. It obviously doesn't warn you if it is going to use a tuner you aren't watching... but when it needs the one you are watching, it seems like a minute or so is all the warning you should need. IF you aren't getting that warning, then you might have an issue.


I created a manual test timer to auto-tune in 5 minutes. According to my stopwatch, the Attention dialog box appeared on the screen and remained on the screen for 50 seconds before the Hopper changed the channel. That's ridiculously short. It might take me at least half of that time just to find the remote, let alone anything else that might be happening at the same time.

The reason, I'm guessing, for the short amount of time might be due to the way DISH has implemented the notification in the Hopper. Previously a small clock icon would flash in the lower left-hand corner of the screen for 3 minutes or until attended. Now the Attention dialog box takes up nearly the entire screen, but not only that, disables the video. The time is probably shorter because the notification is more intrusive.



Stewart Vernon said:


> It actually can't. Since the advent of the remote control, nothing has ever turned fully off anymore. IF it truly turned off, then you couldn't wake it with the remote. Instead, it goes into standby. And a DVR needs to be able to fire off recordings while in standby, so it really isn't doing much less in standby than it does when on.


Allow me to clarify, by turning off I mean no visible indication that the receiver is on. Having said that, my old VCR had a remote and it would turn off and still record shows. My 508 had a remote and it would turn off and still record shows. My point is, only a very small area of the PCB needs to be awake all the time. Keeping the video running 24 hours a day is unnecessary. The receiver's power button is clearly indicated on it's remote.

I know some people connected their 508 to a AC timer. This not only completely turned off the receiver, it also insured the receiver functioned properly over the next 23 hours and 45 minutes. I don't intend to do that, but I thought I would mention it here before someone else did.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> Allow me to clarify, by turning off I mean no visible indication that the receiver is on. Having said that, my old VCR had a remote and it would turn off and still record shows. My 508 had a remote and it would turn off and still record shows. My point is, only a very small area of the PCB needs to be awake all the time. Keeping the video running 24 hours a day is unnecessary. The receiver's power button is clearly indicated on it's remote.


My 301 and 501 had a screen saver. I see them as an improvement - a reminder after turning on the set that one needs to turn "on" the receiver and how to do that. The only down side would be TVs that wake on video that may have a problem falling asleep themselves because of the constantly changing video on the input (the HDMI handshake fixes that).



Blowgun said:


> I know some people connected their 508 to a AC timer. This not only completely turned off the receiver, it also insured the receiver functioned properly over the next 23 hours and 45 minutes. I don't intend to do that, but I thought I would mention it here before someone else did.


NOT recommended ... and no, if the 508 is powered off by disconnecting AC power it is not functioning correctly. The receiver does too much in standby to work correctly if left disconnected from AC power. If you are talking about doing a nightly hard reset of the receiver by depriving power for 15 minutes I find that unneeded.


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## eisberg (Feb 24, 2013)

Godfather, you mentioned that you cannot see all the information on the screen, right? Do you mean the UI (user interface), like parts of the guide being cut off? If so follow these steps:

Press menu Button
Go to Settings
Go to Screen Adjustments
Go to Format TV
Then use the + or - to scale the UI to your screen, and maybe the up/down/left/right if needed.


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## PhantomOG (Feb 7, 2007)

Blowgun said:


> What would you do?


I know you've already managed to get an acceptable deal out of Dish, but for others reading this thread, I would suggest doing what I did. Cancel.

Back in January I had an original Hopper + Joey setup. I was out of contract and paying full price. I wanted Sling and I wanted to save money. So I cancelled and signed up with Time Warner Cable. I saved quite a bit on my cable bill for the past 8 or so months, got a $300 tablet I wanted (signup promo) and now I'm eligible for Dish new customer deals.

So Dish is coming to my house tomorrow with a Hopper with Sling and Super Joey. I get more channels than I did back in January, better equipment, a $200 prepaid gift card -- all at a much lower rate too.

Yeah, using TWC that past 8 months or so was a pain, but I have renewed appreciation for Dish's far superior tech, plus a ton of cash I saved to boot. In 2 years I'll probably rinse and repeat again. This time I'm hopeful to be able to try out Google's TV service in the interim.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

James Long said:


> My 301 and 501 had a screen saver. I see them as an improvement - a reminder after turning on the set that one needs to turn "on" the receiver and how to do that.


Is that really something that needs to be constantly reminded, that the receiver needs to be "on" in order to watch TV?



James Long said:


> NOT recommended ... and no, if the 508 is powered off by disconnecting AC power it is not functioning correctly. The receiver does too much in standby to work correctly if left disconnected from AC power.


I don't know if you ever used a 508 extensively, but towards the EOL, firmware wise, it was in pretty sorry shape. I'm sure I missed some, but I counted some 20+ issues with the 508 that were never addressed. I didn't use the AC timer reset method myself, yet I can understand why some people felt the only guaranteed way for the 508 to operate at it's best, was to hard reset nightly. You certainly couldn't turn the 508 "off", otherwise you were likely to miss a recording.



James Long said:


> If you are talking about doing a nightly hard reset of the receiver by depriving power for 15 minutes I find that unneeded.


And yet for the most part, that's what the Hopper is doing every night at 1:30am when it checks for updates. As a night owl, I find that to be the MOST aggravating thing about the Hopper. That sits above the timer priority screen crash bug. You can leave the Hopper "off" for hours prior to 1:30am, you can manually reset and update the guide just prior -- but when 1:30am comes around the Hopper is going to reset. Why the reset timer can't be tailored, like with other receivers, is pure uncut stupid.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

eisberg said:


> Godfather, you mentioned that you cannot see all the information on the screen, right? Do you mean the UI (user interface), like parts of the guide being cut off?


Nope. What I'm talking about is in the INFO screen. The description is abruptly ended with an ellipsis. For example, here are some random movies and the last line of the movies' description:
"*Fast & Furious 6*"
_whose second-in-command is someone Dom knows. U..._

"*R.I.P.D.*"
_could end all life, they must discover a way to restore th..._

"*The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug*"
_and the dwarves journey to Lake-town and, finally, to the..._
In all three examples there was plenty of room for the description to have continued. I'm not saying that there would have been enough room for a really long description to fit, only that the room underneath didn't prevent where it was cut off. There are many examples, this is but three.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

PhantomOG said:


> I know you've already managed to get an acceptable deal out of Dish, but for others reading this thread, I would suggest doing what I did. Cancel.


That was certainly an option I considered. I also considered how messed up the bill was going to be over the coming months until billing caught up with sales. And, whether I felt like dealing with that. Sure enough, the bill is messed up.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Still wondering, is "DishQuality" still around? I think the echostar e-mail address I have is their old one. If it's different and you have it, would you mind sharing their new e-mail address?

Weeks ago I reported to DISH that they had the station IDs for two local channels backwards in the EPG. I don't know if this would cause the wrong local channel to NOT be in HD, but I'd like to see if at least the IDs can be fixed.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Still wondering, is "DishQuality" still around? I think the echostar e-mail address I have is their old one. If it's different and you have it, would you mind sharing their new e-mail address?


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Bump


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

[email protected] is the one I used last year. Not aware of a different one.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

That's the one. I wasn't sure with all the company changes if that was still valid.

Thank you.


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