# Any splitters that will work with DirecTivo for dual tuner?



## gopher_guy (Nov 19, 2007)

OK so I got my new HD system setup the other day. I had an older hughes DirecTivo that I moved into my BR. I had a regular receiver in there that I took out. I did not want them to drill another line into the house. I was wondering if there is any sort of splitter I could use to get dual tuner to work on this unit again? If not it is not a huge deal, if it was I would have had them drill another line into the house. 

Thanks.


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## Mountaineer (Dec 8, 2007)

You need a Multi-Switch. I used a Zinwell model# WB-68. And you will need two seperate cables going to the receiver.


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## gopher_guy (Nov 19, 2007)

I don't think I explained myself well in first question. have the multi-switch outside. I have the 5 lnb dish. I have 4 lines coming into the house from the multi-switch. 2 lines to HD-DVR, 1 line to non-DVR hd receiver and 1 line to standard def tivo. I did not want them drilling another hole into the house. Can I split the signal again with a multi-switch? I tried using the old 2x4 switch I had before and that didn't appear to work. I'm guessing it's not possible but I wanted to see if anyone had done this. If it's not possible that's fine I don't really NEED dual tuner in the BR it would just be nice to have.

Hope that is more clear.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

You would need two separate lines going to your TiVo from the multi-switch to be able to use both tuners. You cannot split the line with a splitter.

There is a unit called SWM (Single Wire Multi-Switch) that is only in field test right now. It has not be release for general use yet that would allow you to split the line but it will not work with the TiVo. It only works with the HR20/HR21 and R16 (when the R16 is released) DVR's and a few HD receivers. So you would need to upgrade that unit if you wanted to be able to do that.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

You state that there are four lines running into the house from a multiswitch (is this the one on the dish?). So connect a WB68 to those four lines and you'll have 8 to play with.


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## Hash (Jan 16, 2008)

You could use a splitter or diplexor... I forget which I used testing a box one time.... Probably the diplexor the more I think about it.

*BUT...*

You will only be able to pick even or odd channels. Yours will be a polarization issue. Each input on the receiver outputs a voltage signal telling the LNB which polarity (horizontal or vertical) to send to the box. Your multi-switch (outside) intercepts this and fakes out both ends - it gives the receiver what it is asking for, while having your (dual) LNB provide one H and one V polarized signal to it. That is why there are 2 wires from the dish to the multi-switch.

There are other potential hazards - this could cause the output voltage circuit from your receiver to be damaged if using a splitter. And you will likely have tuning issues resulting in missed recordings - but, other than that, it should work just fine....


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Hash said:


> You could use a splitter or diplexor... I forget which I used testing a box one time.... Probably the diplexor the more I think about it.
> 
> *BUT...*
> 
> ...


That's hardly good advice, Hash.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Hash said:


> You could use a splitter or diplexor... I forget which I used testing a box one time.... Probably the diplexor the more I think about it.
> 
> *BUT...*
> 
> ...


No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No

Wont work.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Nicely put RobertE!


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## paulh (Mar 17, 2003)

Well, if you got a seperate 101 only dish, and got a stacker / destaker, internal multiswitch.. you can get 2 tuners working with 101 only content with one wire. Add those costs up, and chances are, you'll think your electrician is dirt cheap for fishing wire.


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## Hash (Jan 16, 2008)

RobertE said:


> No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No No
> 
> Wont work.


Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

It does work, and I did this for a while until I got a 3 x 16 multi-switch for my D-TiVo-fixin' bench. 
Is it smart, NO.
Is it "elegant", NO.
Does it present a @$$ load of problems if you try to use this in a "production" environment, YES...

Would I do this now that I have a 3 x 16 multi-switch, H3LL NO!
Would I just run the extra wire rather than be without 2 tuners or deal with the crap that this causes, H3LL YES!

BUT, it _does_ *WORK*.



litzdog911 said:


> That's hardly good advice, Hash.


And frankly, this is not "advice". It is information. The size 6 pitch, underlining, and boldface on the "BUT..." should have made that clear.

The guy wants to "split" a single wire input. So far, I'm the only one who bothered to tell him *WHAT* the multi-switch does - and *WHY* it's not just a splitter. Now granted, EVERYONE should know that there is a voltage signal sent to LNB (or multiswitch) to determine polarization - but, not everyone is born with this genetic knowledge. Some have to actually learn it. And the bottom line is - you can't have 13V and 18V co-exist on the same wire. Therefore, you can't split one wire and get two fully independent tuners.

My goal was to inspire the guy to either replace his 3 x4 with a 3 x 8 - and run the other line *OR* add another multi-switch. I'm sure Robert's [No] key will get stuck on this again - but, you *can* cascade multiswitchs...


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Hash said:


> It does work, and I did this for a while until I got a 3 x 16 multi-switch for my D-TiVo-fixin' bench.
> Is it smart, NO.
> Is it "elegant", NO.
> Does it present a @$$ load of problems if you try to use this in a "production" environment, YES...
> ...


Last first.

Yes you can cascade multiswitches. Not recommended, but doable.

Now for the first part.

Using a splitter will only cause headaches for the OP. It will work in a few cases, but not all.

If tuner 1 wants 18v & tuner 2 wants 18v, then both tuners will work.
If tuner 1 wants 13v & tuner 2 wants 13v, then both tuners will work.
If tuner 1 wants 18v & tuner 2 wants 13v, then all bets are off as too if any tuners will work at all.

What you advised is a halfassed hack at best. It will cause the OP nothing but headaces and possibly damage his equipment.

Bottom line, it won't work realiably.


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## chuckg (Sep 15, 2007)

_Yes_. I think. Because I have never used one. And assuming (ass-u-me) the IF signal into the splitter is greater than 7dB (plus whatever margin you desire) above the minimum necessary to provide desired PQ, etc. At $4.95 just try it.

http://www.hometech.com/video/splitters.html

Holland HR T106


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chuckg said:


> _Yes_. I think. Because I have never used one. And assuming (ass-u-me) the IF signal into the splitter is greater than 7dB (plus whatever margin you desire) above the minimum necessary to provide desired PQ, etc. At $4.95 just try it.
> 
> http://www.hometech.com/video/splitters.html
> 
> Holland HR T106


No, that won't work.

There is no "splitter" that will allow you to use both tuners on any DVR...

It is fundementally impossible due to how the technology works.

It may work for some combination of channels, but it will not work for all...


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

The short answer is that for hooking up your SD receivers, Tivos and DVRs you can't use a splitter (or even a multiswitch) to turn a single line into two lines, but you can use a multiswitch to turn two lines into four lines (or more).

There is a way to "stack" multiple feeds on one cable, but the cost is probably prohibitive.

Bottom line is that you are probably going to have to run another cable to the Tivo if you want to use both of it's tuners.



EDIT... talk about being fashionably late, I just realized that the post I was replying to was two months old.


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## Hash (Jan 16, 2008)

RobertE said:


> Yes you can cascade multiswitches. Not recommended, but doable.


OMFG! The [No] key did not get hit even once!



RobertE said:


> Using a splitter will only cause headaches for the OP.


I said that...



RobertE said:


> If tuner 1 wants 18v & tuner 2 wants 18v, then both tuners will work.


I said that..



RobertE said:


> If tuner 1 wants 13v & tuner 2 wants 13v, then both tuners will work.


I said that...



RobertE said:


> If tuner 1 wants 18v & tuner 2 wants 13v, then all bets are off as too if any tuners will work at all.


Well... one tuner (the one on the SAT side) will always work with a diplexor.

What I actually said was:


Hash said:


> You will only be able to pick even or odd channels. Yours will be a polarization issue. Each input on the receiver outputs a voltage signal telling the LNB which polarity (horizontal or vertical) to send to the box. Your multi-switch (outside) intercepts this and fakes out both ends - it gives the receiver what it is asking for, while having your (dual) LNB provide one H and one V polarized signal to it. That is why there are 2 wires from the dish to the multi-switch.


This was the explanation of WHY you can't "split" a single wire input into a dual tuner box.

And if anybody missed all of that, the [] at the end of:


Hash said:


> but, other than that, it should work just fine....


should have cleared up any residual misunderstanding of the intent of the post!



RobertE said:


> What you advised is a halfassed hack at best. It will cause the OP nothing but headaces and possibly damage his equipment.


First I didn't "advise" doing this. I CLEARLY "advised" that doing this could damage his equipment. I also clearly "advised" that it was a PITA and unreliable. I further "advised" a diplexor over a splitter.



RobertE said:


> Bottom line, it won't work realiably.


I said that, too.


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## Hash (Jan 16, 2008)

chuckg said:


> _Yes_. I think. Because I have never used one. And assuming (ass-u-me) the IF signal into the splitter is greater than 7dB (plus whatever margin you desire) above the minimum necessary to provide desired PQ, etc. At $4.95 just try it.
> 
> http://www.hometech.com/video/splitters.html
> 
> Holland HR T106


Chuck - from a RF standpoint a splitter is fine. What no one but me has bothered to point out for the OP is the fact that there is a voltage signal coming *from* the receiver *to* the LNB requesting channel polarization. Polarization is an integral part of Satellite TV - and has been since before C-band 35 years ago.

A splitter is a band-pass filter of sorts - made of a capacitor and choke network. It is designed to pass frequencies - not voltage. Further, connecting any type of voltage to the outputs or input of a splitter could have undesirable consequences. It has probably been 30 years since I popped the cover off of a splitter to see how it was actually wired inside (easier then than now, BTW - I have _though_ about doing it in the last decade) - but, as a balanced, band-pass network, I can promise you it is not designed to pass voltage.

So - No, it can't really work.

And even if the splitter could - how are you going to get 13V *and* 18V on the *same* wire at the *same* time to request different polarization from the LNB/multi-switch.

Again - for gopher guy to have two fully independent tuners, he needs a second wire from a (bigger or second) multi-switch.


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## Hash (Jan 16, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> EDIT... talk about being fashionably late, I just realized that the post I was replying to was two months old.


Hmmm... Well, one month.

Now I *do* feel stupid.:dozey:

Somehow, (must be the wonders of vB Search) this was on top when I replied to it...


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## chuckg (Sep 15, 2007)

Hash said:


> Chuck - from a RF standpoint a splitter is fine. What no one but me has bothered to point out for the OP is the fact that there is a voltage signal coming *from* the receiver *to* the LNB requesting channel polarization. Polarization is an integral part of Satellite TV - and has been since before C-band 35 years ago.
> 
> A splitter is a band-pass filter of sorts - made of a capacitor and choke network. It is designed to pass frequencies - not voltage. Further, connecting any type of voltage to the outputs or input of a splitter could have undesirable consequences. It has probably been 30 years since I popped the cover off of a splitter to see how it was actually wired inside (easier then than now, BTW - I have _though_ about doing it in the last decade) - but, as a balanced, band-pass network, I can promise you it is not designed to pass voltage.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to imply that both polarizations would be available. It had already been pointed out as you note.

The claim in the link I provided is that there is DC pass-through from the In port to the Out port for the express purposed of passing the polarization voltage. It further states that there is no DC pass-through (DC block) from the In port to the Tap port. Furthermore the freq spec implies that it is designed to work at D* IF with stated insertion loss. And one can assume that over the frequency range of interest on all three ports the nominal impedance is close enough to 75 ohms for "government work".

I had a bookmark to the URL from previous D* RF research - mental, I have no need for exotic D* electronics - and did a quick perusal for DC blocks and splitters and found what appeared to be a $4.95 *possible* solution. *Possible* because I spent enough years around RF (100GHz radio telescope in the late '70s amongst many other things) to know that things are not always as they seem.

Splitters may or may not be "band pass" filters. Originally, if I remember correcty, they were all resistive, carbon not wire-wound, of course. The term "choke" would not generally be used in this case, but, rather, transformer. Which, is of course, one of a class of inductors.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Hash said:


> OMFG! The [No] key did not get hit even once!
> 
> I said that...


So, you know it won't work and offer it up to the op anyway? 

WTMKF

/done


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## Hash (Jan 16, 2008)

RobertE said:


> So, you know it won't work and offer it up to the op anyway?
> 
> WTMKF
> 
> /done


Go back and read the post one more F****n' TIME!

This time, read it from start to finish before you decide to fire off your smart-mouth and flame/impress or what ever the @#$^% you called your self doing with all of your [No]s...

Perhaps THEN you'll catch a F****n' *CLUE!*

And *PLEASE* - for the love of *God* - be *[/done]*!!!


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