# DISH Eliminates Wire Clutter with New Wireless Joey



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

*DISH Eliminates Wire Clutter with New Wireless Joey*


_Wireless Joey now available to DISH customers_
_Customers can move TVs anywhere in and around the home_
_First in pay-TV industry to use the latest 802.11ac wireless technology_

ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- DISH's Wireless Joey™ system, available today, gives consumers the ability to watch TV virtually anywhere in and around the home without the need for wiring. The small client connects wirelessly to the Hopper® Whole-Home HD DVR using a dedicated 802.11ac access point. DISH Network L.L.C. is a wholly owned subsidiary of DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH).








Wireless Joey, Access Point and Hopper with Sling (Photo: Business Wire)

"Wireless Joey expands installation options where coaxial or Ethernet wiring is either difficult or undesirable, eliminating unsightly wire runs," said Vivek Khemka, DISH Senior Vice President of Product Management. "You're no longer forced to position your TV on the same wall or near a room's coax outlet. Whether you're in a new house, an older home or on a backyard patio enjoying a family cookout, Wireless Joey delivers television where you want it."

Wireless Joey provides an identical experience to a wired Joey, with full Hopper functionality including the PrimeTime Anytime® and AutoHop™ features, and the ability to view, record, pause, rewind and fast forward TV content.

*First HD video implementation with 802.11ac wireless technology*
The Wireless Joey system is the first in the pay-TV industry to apply blazing fast 802.11ac wireless technology, delivering stronger signal propagation and data transfer speeds up to three times faster than pay-TV competitors' wireless video offerings (802.11n and older).

"Signal degradation causes a poor video experience when using older wireless networking protocols," said Khemka. "We chose 802.11ac to create a fast, reliable wireless network that delivers HD video in homes of varying size and construction."

Installation includes a Wireless Joey client and a Wireless Joey 802.11ac access point. Connecting directly to the Hopper, the access point creates a dedicated Wi-Fi network that serves up to three Wireless Joey clients. By setting up a dedicated Wi-Fi network separate from a home's existing wireless network, DISH ensures its solution maintains Hopper's high video quality and even works in homes without Internet access.

*Technical specifications*
Wireless Joey is powered by a 900MHz 2000 DMIPS BCM7418 processor. Wireless performance for both Wireless Joey and Access Point is driven by a Broadcom BCM4360 802.11ac chip operating at the 5Ghz band. The system features 3x3 MIMO with beam forming internal antennas and auto frequency selection.

DISH customers can add Wireless Joeys to their Hopper system for $7 per month per device, plus a one-time $50 fee for the wireless access point, which can serve up to three Wireless Joey clients. For more information, visit www.dish.com or call 1-800-333-DISH.

*About DISH*
DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides approximately 14.097 million satellite TV customers, as of March 31, 2014, with the highest-quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value. Subscribers enjoy a high definition line-up with more than 200 national HD channels, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 250 company. Visit www.dish.com.

Source: DISH Network Corporation


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I like most everything about this... I don't like so much the $50 non-refundable fee for the wireless access point. Even if you purchase it, and it is yours to keep, I assume it would be useless outside of a Dish configuration... so it seems a little off to make someone pay $50 to have this part of the equation.


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## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

Nothing on the DISH site yet... or I missed it.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I like most everything about this... I don't like so much the $50 non-refundable fee for the wireless access point. Even if you purchase it, and it is yours to keep, I assume it would be useless outside of a Dish configuration... so it seems a little off to make someone pay $50 to have this part of the equation.


that's perfectly match dish motto: we will get your money ether way ... by penny or by a dollar


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

Can I replace my existing wired Joey with one?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You should be able to replace any wired Joey with one. The press release didn't say, but I assume this works with the original Hopper or the newer Hopper w/ Sling.

You can have up to 3 wireless Joeys, so I assume you could replace up to 3 wired Joeys in your configuration.

Another not-mentioned thing... is whether or not you could get another access point and support another 3 wireless Joeys. I'm thinking for people with 2 Hoppers who may already have more than 3 wired Joeys in their configuration.


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## Jaspear (May 16, 2004)

My wireless ISP service is in the 5Ghz band. I would want to know the actual frequencies the Dish AP uses before I shelled out the fifty bucks.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Jaspear said:


> My wireless ISP service is in the 5Ghz band. I would want to know the actual frequencies the Dish AP uses before I shelled out the fifty bucks.


they must use standard WIFi freqs,

actually if you'll read the news you will find it (keyword is "ac" as a new WiFi standard)


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

So, what if someone already has a wireless access point? It makes no technical sense to install another one. Yes, "ac" is faster, but is also is still not fully adopted; sort of in the state wireless "N" was when it was first introduced. Currently, my Hopper is running fine, over wireless, to my Apple Extreme Generation 5 Router (does both 2.5 and 5.0 ghz)


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

nmetro said:


> So, what if someone already has a wireless access point? It makes no technical sense to install another one. Yes, "ac" is faster, but is also is still not fully adopted; sort of in the state wireless "N" was when it was first introduced. Currently, my Hopper is running fine, over wireless, to my Apple Extreme Generation 5 Router (does both 2.5 and 5.0 ghz)


The "sense" it makes in this case is... This wireless access point will only be used by the Hopper and Joeys to communicate with each other... they would use your access point/network for any Internet access and downloads but would not use your router anymore to route the video signals from the Hopper to the wireless Joey.

It's a smart idea because it keeps that traffic away from your router and to a piece of hardware that Dish will support if you have any problems with Joeys linking to the Hopper.

It's all about the video streams to the Joey and nothing to do with your Hopper's internet connection.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Stewart Vernon said:


> The "sense" it makes in this case is... This wireless access point will only be used by the Hopper and Joeys to communicate with each other... they would use your access point/network for any Internet access and downloads but would not use your router anymore to route the video signals from the Hopper to the wireless Joey.
> 
> It's a smart idea because *it keeps that traffic away from your router *and to a piece of hardware that Dish will support if you have any problems with Joeys linking to the Hopper.
> 
> It's all about the video streams to the Joey and nothing to do with your Hopper's internet connection.


if they bpth use same RF channel, then the idea is not working


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

P Smith said:


> if they bpth use same RF channel, then the idea is not working


One thing doesn't necessarily have to do with the other.

Each access point handles its own traffic.

Now, IF you are referring to potential interference between the two access points due to using the same (or overlapping) channel... then you may have a point, but this is something likely already happening with their neighbors WiFi and possibly with their cordless telephones depending on their home phone service.

You bolded from my post "it keeps that traffic away from your router"... as if I had said something wrong. RF channel interference is a completely different topic than one router handling another router's traffic. Just because I'm on the same channel doesn't make my router suddenly start handling the data... it might interfere with it processing its own traffic but it wouldn't be handling the extra data.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

the devil is in details
you are right about traffic as meaning packets going thru other router; but slowdown as a congestion of whole process of sending/receiving data suggested by interfering at media level, eg RF channel occupation


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

Wonder how $50 compares to the cost of having wire lines run to three rooms? Sounds good to me.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

BillJ said:


> Wonder how $50 compares to the cost of having wire lines run to three rooms? Sounds good to me.


Depends on the configuration... whatever your "deal" is typically includes "normal"wiring... so unless you have a particularly difficult home to wire... if you order a Hopper and 3 Joeys, whatever your installation price (be it free or for some fixed cost) should include the cost of wiring those Joeys.

If this $50 for the access point is an additional fee on top of that... then it might cost you more to get Wireless Joeys than it would to get regular Joeys installed.

Now... if you buy your own equipment instead of leasing... its a whole different ball of wax since you have to buy stuff that normally is included with an install... so then you might have a point that buying the access point is more attractive than buying a bunch of coax and running it yourself.


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## bnewt (Oct 2, 2003)

wireless is much better if there are no cut outs & drops
I already have cables run to each tv for my antenna & would love to have hd at these............they are now connected via 722 home distribution


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Regardless if one uses their Wireless Access Point, or the one provided by DISH, eventually they both go to one's router. DISH is not providing a Wireless Access Point/Router, but a Wireless Access Point. If one has three wireless Joey's operational, then "ac" would be helpful, but for one Joey. Wireless "n" should be sufficient. My original comment should have made this clear. Anyone know if they posted the technical specs fro the Wireless Access Point, including things like if it contains wired ports?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I have DIRECTV's wireless client setup with 3 clients. DIRECTV used A/N, clients reporting high 400's to mid 500's for connection speed and no issues with all 3 up and running. Considering that the channels coming from the satellites are usually 10Mbps or lower IMHO A/C isn't really necessary for both providers closed network.


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

nmetro said:


> Regardless if one uses their Wireless Access Point, or the one provided by DISH, eventually they both go to one's router. DISH is not providing a Wireless Access Point/Router, but a Wireless Access Point. If one has three wireless Joey's operational, then "ac" would be helpful, but for one Joey. Wireless "n" should be sufficient. My original comment should have made this clear. Anyone know if they posted the technical specs fro the Wireless Access Point, including things like if it contains wired ports?


What you are saying is not true.

The Wireless access point provided by Dish will only be used by the Hopper and the Wireless Joeys for a private video network. Your home router will not be involved in the video delivery to a Wireless Joey in this scenario.

You may be confusing this new setup with how some people have been using a WiFi dongle on their "wired" Joey and are using their home network and router. That configuration appears to work but is not officially supported by Dish... and we do not even know (I don't think we know) if the new Wireless Joey will actually allow such a connection without the use of the Dish Wireless Access Point.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

Well, I finally found this:

https://rvseniormoments.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/666_dish_twotvs_hopper_wirelessjoey.pdf

And this:

https://rvseniormoments.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/00_dish_hopper_joey_anatomy_06_26_2014.pdf

Based upon these, it is clear the Wireless Access Point is hooked up to the Hopper (first link above) via the Ethernet port. So, the Hopper needs to be set up so it can also talk to the home network router. Either, through the DISH WAP or wireless between the Hopper and the home network router. If IDSH connects to the home network router, through the DISH WAP, then that means any wireless device, which talks over 5GHz, can talk to the DISH WAP, as well. I would be very surprised if the DISH WAP only does "ac", but supports "n", as well:



Stewart Vernon said:


> What you are saying is not true.
> 
> The Wireless access point provided by Dish will only be used by the Hopper and the Wireless Joeys for a private video network. Your home router will not be involved in the video delivery to a Wireless Joey in this scenario.
> 
> You may be confusing this new setup with how some people have been using a WiFi dongle on their "wired" Joey and are using their home network and router. That configuration appears to work but is not officially supported by Dish... and we do not even know (I don't think we know) if the new Wireless Joey will actually allow such a connection without the use of the Dish Wireless Access Point.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You do know that the Hopper has two ethernet ports, right? And the Hopper w/ Sling has its own built-in WiFi...

So... you have one ethernet port to connect to the Wireless Access Point that creates the private video network to the Wireless Joeys... and then you have another ethernet port (or possibly WiFi) to connect the Hopper to your home network router for internet access.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Without seen working config, we are just do WAGing...


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Without seen working config, we are just do WAGing...


I'm posting based on the info that Dish has supplied to us so far... or am I the only one reading the press release that I posted to start this thread?

From the press release:

"_Installation includes a Wireless Joey client and a Wireless Joey 802.11ac access point. Connecting directly to the Hopper, the access point creates a dedicated Wi-Fi network that serves up to three Wireless Joey clients. By setting up a dedicated Wi-Fi network separate from a home's existing wireless network, DISH ensures its solution maintains Hopper's high video quality and even works in homes without Internet access._"


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Perhaps no word of using separate network jack...they could endup with subnets...we shall see it.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

*"DISH Eliminates Wire Clutter with New Wireless Joey" *

*???*

Regardless (not irregardless) of the doubters here and how or whether
it works or not, I have a serious problem with how this "wireless" tech, as
in 'no wires', is deceptively advertised (promoted, hawked) to the public
by both Dish and DirecTV.

I have read every post in this thread as well as the two pdf spec sheets
linked above. Unless I am missing something, it sure looks to me that at
least three wires are still needed at the location of each tv served:

1 power cord from tv to a/c outlet
1 power cord from wireless joey to a/c outlet
1 HDMI cable from wireless joey to tv

By any stretch of the definition of "wireless", the Dish set-up above and
that which DirecTV claims in their ubiquitous tv ads, are not, unless black
magic is involved, in any way "wireless". Just because it is wireless from
the WAP to the joey or genie doesn't make it wireless at the tv display as
is depicted by Directv in their highly deceptive and misleading tv ads.

Am I right?

If I'm wrong (and I was once before ) what am I missing here?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You're not wrong... and you didn't even count the wires from the LNB to the first device in the chain. DirecTV forgot about that, but had to quickly go back and add the disclaimer statement to their commercials. If you notice, the original run commercials mentioned nothing about those required wires.

That said... you're tilting at windmills. It's typical marketing that is more interested in being cute than accurate, and it wasn't the first nor will it be the last.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Stewart Vernon said:


> You're not wrong... that said... you're tilting at windmills. It's typical marketing that is more interested in being cute than accurate, and it wasn't the first nor will it be the last.


I've been _"tilting"_ since having had a stroke in 2005, but not at windmills. I try
not to waste my time, talent or energy on stupid, hopeless or idiotic causes.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

The latest Airport Extreme and Time Capsule's support 802.11ac if I recall correctly, does that mean if I am using one of those, I would not need a Dish access point for a wireless Joey?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's 50/50. When we get real user who could try his own AP,then you'll got the answer.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Dish is requiring you to spend the $50 and get their access point in order to use the Wireless Joey. I don't know if it even matters whether or not you can do it (surely it is technically possible) or if they have restricted it somehow... but you're going to be required to pay them for the access point anyway, you might as well use it.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

My Joey AP is connected to my router via Ethernet, and I synced my Wireless Joey with a couple of button presses. It wouldn't see my 802.11n 5GHz network at all; it seems to be some sort of WPS-style sync, since I have to push the AP's sync button, then the Joey's. 

Edit: Also, they both definitely have an IP on my regular network in the 192.168.1.0/24 subnet. I haven't done a spectrum scan yet.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

RasputinAXP said:


> My Joey AP is connected to my router via Ethernet, and I synced my Wireless Joey with a couple of button presses. It wouldn't see my 802.11n 5GHz network at all; it seems to be some sort of WPS-style sync, since I have to push the AP's sync button, then the Joey's.
> 
> Edit: Also, they both definitely have an IP on my regular network in the 192.168.1.0/24 subnet. I haven't done a spectrum scan yet.


Just to be clear... you do have the new wireless Joey? And not just using the old Joey over WiFi like some people have done?

Assuming you are using a new wireless Joey setup... why would you connect the Dish Access Point to your home network instead of to your Hopper as it is designed? According to all the information Dish has released, you are meant to connect the Access Point directly to the Hopper and not to your home network.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

It would be interesting to know if the DISH AP ca be accessed over port 80 and has a configuration/administrative interface. If so, then this unit can be used for more than just connecting a Hopper and a Wireless Joey. By the way, most APs come with an auto sync WPS, but also have a manual configuration option. So,if there is a way to access the AP to make configuration changes, then the AP can be used by any wireless devices that can communicate over 5 ghz. This assumes, that teh AP is backward compatible with other wireless spec (a, g, n, in addition to ac).

Connecting it to the router eliminates and extra network hop(no pun intended) that would occur if it were hooked up to the Hopper. Also, the Hopper, through wireless, is connected to the router via the AP, with the Joey. This gets both devices on both the Internet and home network



Stewart Vernon said:


> Just to be clear... you do have the new wireless Joey? And not just using the old Joey over WiFi like some people have done?
> 
> Assuming you are using a new wireless Joey setup... why would you connect the Dish Access Point to your home network instead of to your Hopper as it is designed? According to all the information Dish has released, you are meant to connect the Access Point directly to the Hopper and not to your home network.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Read the press release. That is not the intended function of the Wireless Access Point for the Joey.

It is intended to be connected directly to the Hopper and create a private video network between the Hopper and Wireless Joeys. It is not meant to be used for other network traffic.

You are supposed to connect your Hopper to your home network in a different way for internet access.

Whether this interconnection works or not, it clearly isn't the intended way based on Dish's published information and they might not support your setup if you try to use the Access Point in ways for which it was unintended.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

nmetro said:


> Connecting it to the router eliminates and extra network hop(no pun intended) that would occur if it were hooked up to the Hopper.


Not quite. The Joey gets its programming from the Hopper. A direct connection between the access point the Joeys are using and the Hopper eliminates the reliance on other networking.

If that doesn't make sense count the steps:
Wireless Joey to Hopper Access Point (1)
Hopper Access Point wired to Hopper (2)

If the Joey is connected to an access point on a router the steps increase:
Wireless Joey to Access Point (1)
Access Point to Router (2)
Router to Hopper (3)

If the access point is built into the router one may decide not to count that step ... but there are two issues to consider. One is how the Access Point Router is designed (how traffic handled internally may be counted as a step) and more importantly your Hopper-Joey traffic is using the same network as the rest of your home.

DISH's dedicated Hopper only network is designed to keep the traffic separate from the rest of your home. Just like using MoCA over coax connecting Hoppers and Joeys to the node ... it is a private network separate from the home.

There are limited Joey apps (eg: Pandora, Weather) that use the Internet ... but the primary connection the Joey needs is to a Hopper. That is what the new access point provides to Joeys. A direct connection.


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## nmetro (Jul 11, 2006)

OK. That makes sense.

Effectively, the DISH Wireless Access Point is a wireless version of MoCA and its firmware, is most likely, only has the capability to transmitting between the Hopper and a Wireless Joey.

This begs the question, what wireless channel, on 5Ghz, with the DISH WAP be using? If it roves through channels it could cause interference on one's home, or one's neighbor's, wireless network.

I like the idea of no wires; it would be nicer if DISH offered a Wireless Super Joey; then one gains two tuners.



James Long said:


> Not quite. The Joey gets its programming from the Hopper. A direct connection between the access point the Joeys are using and the Hopper eliminates the reliance on other networking.
> 
> If that doesn't make sense count the steps:
> Wireless Joey to Hopper Access Point (1)
> ...


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

Nick said:


> *"DISH Eliminates Wire Clutter with New Wireless Joey" *
> 
> *???*
> 
> ...


Well technically speaking no cable wires on Wireless Joeys or Genie Minis itself, but of course we should always read the disclaimers at the bottom, even it only pops up for a few seconds, and not just rely on the ads itself, Just like the Directv ads for the so called real customers with other TV providers experience, Which that I truly consider misleading, If one doesn't read the disclaimers first.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The closest I've seen to "wireless" is Chromecast which connects directly to a HDMI port on the TV. It still needs power ... which if your TV has a USB connector Chromecast can use. Otherwise even the least wired wireless requires wires. (Perhaps we can call them lesswire systems if wireless is unacceptable?)

Power is one wire that is difficult to get away from. But with a "wireless" Joey power is the only wire one will need to run to the TV location. Additional equipment (DVD, game consoles, speakers, etc.) are beyond the scope of the Hopper system.

Going back a few days: 


nmetro said:


> I like the idea of no wires; it would be nicer if DISH offered a Wireless Super Joey; then one gains two tuners.


The Super Joey needs coax to tune satellite signals. But once the Super Joey is on the network those tuners are available to other receivers.


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## jkenn40 (Jul 29, 2014)

Just a heads up, one of my techs ran into a little bit of a surprise with the wireless joeys. When he was going through the connection process the customer had two Roku 3's and for whatever reason the joeys like their wifi direct signal more than the AP. I do know that the wifi direct is using ac and in the 5GHz range just like the Joey's. Hopefully this was just a one off though.


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## Gadget207 (Aug 1, 2014)

As I noted in this thread, the WAP from Dish isn't required if you have a better 5Ghz 802.11ac router with WPS, such as a Netgear Nighthawk. While the Nighthawk is $188 at Best Buy, it's far more versatile IMHO than Dish's low-power sealed WAP, so some users may be able to save themselves the $50.

This worked for me, in a rather difficult install site, but as always, YMMV.


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## audiomaster (Jun 24, 2004)

Any one know what the range of this thing is? Could I use a Joey at my shop which is about 75ft from the house? Is there an external antenna jack on this box?


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## Gadget207 (Aug 1, 2014)

@Audiomaster:

There is no precise answer, really, other than "it depends". Where will the Hopper with Sling be in the house in relation to the shop with the WJ? What are the walls made of? Best bet is to try it and see. The antenna jack on the Hopper is for the remote as I recall. If you find the signal is too weak using Dish's WAP and WJ, you can see this thread for how to use a Netgear Nighthawk instead of their WAP for greater flexibility and range.


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