# DVR-510 not waking up to record



## whiteryder

I have a very strange problem with my Dish DVR-510, one that even Advanced Tech Support told me they'd never heard of: My DVR-510 will not wake up from standby to record a scheduled timer. If it is already on when the program begins, it records just fine, but if I have turned it "off" (which I know isn't really OFF, but the green light goes out) then it stays off until I turn it on again. Any timers that were scheduled while it was off are ignored. 

I know the timers are there, because I can see them on the Timers list, and I can see the little clock icon in the Guide that shows the program is supposed to be recorded. I even see these things if I turn on the DVR *while* the timer should have been recording. 

Obviously the workaround is to leave the DVR on all the time, then everything gets recorded just fine. But that's not how it's supposed to work, and Dish doesn't recommend it as a permanent solution.

A little more background: I got my first DVR-510 in October 2003 as a new Dish subscriber. *That* DVR worked perfectly until May 2006, when it suddenly died (started turning itself on and off repeatedly). I called Dish and they said they'd replace it, which they did - with a refurbished unit, which I'm told is all they have available for replacements.

So, that was in May. The "new" DVR had the problem I'm describing, i.e. not waking up to record programs. After many conversations with Dish they finally sent me a second replacement unit. Guess what? Same problem!! To make a long story short, I am now on my THIRD REPLACEMENT which still has the same problem!

One more little detail: When I first received each of these DVRs, they DID record from standby once or twice, fooling me into thinking all was finally OK. But within a few days each stopped waking up, just like the previous one. I also once got one of them to record successfully by manually creating a timer, i.e. setting the exact start and end times. (I didn't try it again, because in my opinion if that's the only way I can get it to work, then I think it's still broken!)

Has anyone ever heard of this problem? Is there any way that you can think of that this might be caused by something in my setup?? I haven't changed anything at all, each time I receive a new unit I unplug the old one, plug all the cables into the new one, and go right back to using it the same way I always have since 2003. I'm really clutching at straws here - could it somehow be my remote? Or the fact that I have a fancy new dish that's supposed to receive local channels but can't see that satellite from my yard, so the local feed has been turned off?

I guess all I can do is call Dish back and tell them the third replacement unit is just as bad as the other two... but as you can imagine I'm not looking forward to it.

Any ideas??
wr


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## tampa8

In my opinion it is not seeing the guide correctly, and the fact that it records when the times are manually put in supports what I think.

Erase all timers that may now exist. Do a check switch, and hopefully at the end of it, it will download the program guide again. 

The only other thing I can think of is a newer software download is causing the problem, but Dish should have received other complaints about it.


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## robert koerner

When I programmed my 510 to record by selecting a program from the guide, it would record whatever was broadcast during that time period on that channel.

The times my 510 would not execute a timer was when I was in playback, and was in the Guide trying to schedule it to record. Sometimes it would be recording but would stop recording under those circumstances, and not execute any timers after that point.

If unplugging the unit, and then plugging it in again solves this problem, then buying a lamp timer, to disrupt power to the 510 while you are asleep, will get you going.

Dish can track what their repair department discovered with any unit sent back to them. It would be interesting to know what was wrong with the units you've sent back to them.
Bob


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## whiteryder

Okay I'll try that, thanks. Any theories as to why it works at first, then stops working after a few days?

wr


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## whiteryder

Results of test:

1. Rebooted DVR, did check switch, guide downloaded again.
2. Set up a timer from the guide, for a program about to start.
3. Turned off DVR but not TV.
4. DVR came on just fine and recorded program.

BUT

5. After program ended, DVR went to "Playback Over" screen, as if I had
been watching a pre-recorded show. I waited, and after about 4 minutes
it automatically exited to the real-time satellite programming on that channel.

I have it set up to record a couple of programs later tonight; we'll see if it gets
those or if the "Playback Over" thingy is a clue that it's already broken again.


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## robert koerner

My 510 would tell me it was going to crash at the end of watching a recorded show. At the end of the show, it would go back to a menu but the color of the menu had changed. That was always a harbinger of the 510 crashing later on.

Every time I called Dish, they told me they had never heard of the problems I had.

But, my unit only crashed under the exact same circumstance, playback & recording & in the program guide creating future timer events to record.

Bob


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## Kirk E

Finally someone else with this problem. I have had this exact problem ever since my DVR508 updated to P309 in mid May. After two replacement units, countless phone conversations with advanced tech support and much testing, Dish Network agrees it has to be a bug in P309.

My unit will not power itself on in response to a timer _unless_ I reset the unit by either pulling the plug or holding the power button in on the front panel. If I reset the unit it will turn itself on to record once and once only.

My timers now also sometimes become corrupted and fail to start even if I leave the unit on, but this is possibly because the unit needs to be turned off or reset to update the program guide frequently in order to avoid timer corruption. This is a known bug according to tech support. I usually remember to do this but not always.

I am not only glad for this post from wr I am glad wr has a 510. This will save me from being conned into trying a 510 to solve the problem. I could use the added hard drive space but not the usage fee.

Hope this helps,

Kirk


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## whiteryder

Kirk E said:


> My unit will not power itself on in response to a timer _unless_ I reset the unit by either pulling the plug or holding the power button in on the front panel. If I reset the unit it will turn itself on to record once and once only.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Kirk


Wow, sounds like you've been doing even more experiments than I have! Thanks for the additional info, and it DOES help to know I'm not alone. 

I wish I could remember what software my original 510 was running, however I know for certain that all the replacements have been running P309.

So, is there any way that we can get our information to the folks who can actually do something about it, i.e. the engineers at <insert Dish DVR software provider here>? Or does anyone from Dish ever read these forums? If I have to spend another hour on the phone with Dish, I may pop a blood vessel. These days it really feels like I know more about the 510 than the folks I talk to. Nice folks, but not very helpful.

wr


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## whiteryder

Kirk E said:


> Finally someone else with this problem. I have had this exact problem ever since my DVR508 updated to P309 in mid May.


Wait a minute, I just re-read your post - you say the update was mid-May??? That's exactly when my old 510 "died"! (I first noticed it malfunctioning the evening of May 19.)

How much you wanna bet my original problem was due to the update, either the new software or possibly an error in applying the update? I had assumed it was the hard drive, or perhaps some satellite interface component finally dying of old age.

Too late to go back now, of course, but it does add to the pile of evidence against this new update.  Being a software developer myself, it's really frustrating to see symptoms that I can't fix because I can't get to the code, and I can't even get to the people who CAN get to the code...

<sigh> Guess I'm back to leaving it on all the time - or at least most of the time.


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## robert koerner

That is why I mention Dish can track what they found wrong with the units you sent back to them.

I sent at least four 510s back to them--they never found anything wrong with them.

Fortunately, my 510s would work when I unpluged it and pluged it back in again.

I solved my 510 problem by replacing it with a 522.

I didn't trust Dish when they told me to upgrade to a 522 involved an 18 month programming commitment, and that if the 522 was as unreliable as the 510 I would be stuck with the 18 month commitment. So, I bought a 522. I figured that if it was as unreliable as my 510, I jist sell it and try Direct, if I could find an old Direct-TVO unit.

I would have been happy if it was just more reliable than my 510, which it certainly is! But, it is much easier to use, and I can record two shows at once. I use the dual record a lot, especially to record PI shows I might be interested in.


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## whiteryder

I've often been tempted to upgrade to the 522, but I didn't like either choice of cost (to buy) or contract (to lease). Did you find a good deal on the 522 somewhere?

wr


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## music_beans

I got a 510 that works just fine! I never have had a problem with a timer not firing when the unit is off.


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## ch3

robert koerner said:


> My 510 would tell me it was going to crash at the end of watching a recorded show. At the end of the show, it would go back to a menu but the color of the menu had changed. That was always a harbinger of the 510 crashing later on.
> 
> Every time I called Dish, they told me they had never heard of the problems I had.
> 
> But, my unit only crashed under the exact same circumstance, playback & recording & in the program guide creating future timer events to record.
> 
> Bob


I frequently see the color of the menu change after playback was done. It never indicated a crash was pending. After leaving the screen, everything would be fine.

However, if the background was black and the only only other thing visible were the letters in white, then yes, it was time to reboot because the receiver was in some sort of confused state.


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## whiteryder

That's good to know. Do you happen to know which version of the software it is currently running?


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## robert koerner

I got mine from eBay, along with the DPP I needed.

I was afraid the 522 would be as unreliable as the 510. So, I didn't believe Dish when they finally told me to go to the 522.

The confused state of the receiver is called software CRASH.

It might be that the 510 doesn't have enough memory to be in playback, be recording, have the guide displayed, and have some one program it for future recordings.

Having the unit drop colors in a menu, upon completion of playback, might be an attempt to free up some memory? Entirely WILD, uneducated, NO-experience with programming, speculation on my part. Certainly more possible than any of the idiotic reasons/excuses Dish gave me.

I suspect that 522/625s are more expensive to manufacture, and that dropping 510s indicates they have given up making the 510s stable.


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## whiteryder

What's a DPP?


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## Hoobastank

My 510 started messing up again last week while I was on vacation. I'm on my 3rd 510. They are not reliable machines imo. Last week it failed to record anything for 4 days straight while gone. One day when I came home from work, it wasn't recording when it should have been, so I turned it on and it started recording automatically. I didn't bother to call it in, been there done that 2x.


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## whiteryder

I must have been pretty lucky with my first 510, it worked for almost three years without a single problem. (And in fact now I'm suspecting the 510 hardware was still okay, but something about software update 309 made it go crazy.)

I'm thinking, for now I'll just leave my 510 on most of the time, since that works. And I'll keep my eye out for a good deal on a 522.

wr


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## BobaBird

mckenn said:


> What's a DPP?


DPP = DishPro Plus, a switching protocol for feeding a dual tuner receiver with one run of RG6. When people refer to "a DPP" they usually mean the DPP Twin though there are 3 pieces required to fully utilize DPP, the others being a DPP Separator and a DPP receiver (dual tuner model).


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## cj9788

I do not know if this is the same problem but on a few occasions I have been watching tv in live mode and the blinking little clock icon to let me know a timer is about to fire will appear on my screen but it will not blink. It is steady on the screen. I hit the select button it will tell the timer info & i hit ok but the timer does not fire. Other than that issue my 510 has been working fine.


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## robert koerner

If I'd have known that the the 522 was more stable, and reliable than my 510, I would have jumped on Dish's upgrade.

I bought my 522 because Dish told me the 522 was as stable/reliable as my 510.

I figured that if the 522 crashed every day, like my 510, I could sell it, and not be stuck with an 18 month programming commitment to Dish.

If you didn't tax your unit's capability, so it was stable under your usage, and Dish has told you of a software problem, there is hope they will fix the problem they just created. the question is how long will they take to fix the recent problem.

I also assume there is a reason why Dish has discontinued the 510.


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## Beardedbosn

Let me join the 510 failure club... and add another type of failure  

In the last week our:

Once, timer clock display not flashing and timer not firing.

Today, three morning /afternoon timers did not fire. Did hard reset, will see what happens


Overnight Sat/Sun the timer never shut off and recorded until we got up in the morning. One good movie and a lot of infomercials.



Chris


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## Kirk E

Here is an update to the issue below. Because advanced tech support had offered to compensate me for my troubles and yet I was getting the run around, I emailed the ceo as suggested in these forums. They gave me a one month refund and promised to fix the problem by August which was only days away.

Sometime in the past few days my DVR508 updated to P360 and the problem is indeed fixed. Probably there are some new bugs but hopefully they will be easier to live with.

Perhaps DISH would have fixed the problem either way and our complaints are a waste of time, but I do not think so. I think the programmers can actually fix these bugs, it just takes a lot to get the issue put on their desk.

Thanks,

Kirk



Kirk E said:


> Finally someone else with this problem. I have had this exact problem ever since my DVR508 updated to P309 in mid May. After two replacement units, countless phone conversations with advanced tech support and much testing, Dish Network agrees it has to be a bug in P309.
> 
> My unit will not power itself on in response to a timer _unless_ I reset the unit by either pulling the plug or holding the power button in on the front panel. If I reset the unit it will turn itself on to record once and once only.
> 
> My timers now also sometimes become corrupted and fail to start even if I leave the unit on, but this is possibly because the unit needs to be turned off or reset to update the program guide frequently in order to avoid timer corruption. This is a known bug according to tech support. I usually remember to do this but not always.
> 
> I am not only glad for this post from wr I am glad wr has a 510. This will save me from being conned into trying a 510 to solve the problem. I could use the added hard drive space but not the usage fee.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Kirk


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## whiteryder

Kirk E said:


> Here is an update to the issue below.
> 
> Sometime in the past few days my DVR508 updated to P360 and the problem is indeed fixed. Probably there are some new bugs but hopefully they will be easier to live with.
> 
> Kirk


That's excellent news; do you know whether the software version numbers are the same for 508s as for 510s? Last I looked, my 510 was at P309, so 360 would seem to be a big jump.

Of course it would be sad indeed if all your hard work to get them to fix the 508s didn't convince them to fix the same problem on the 510s....

I'll check my software version in the morning. Thanks!

wr


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## Kirk E

mckenn said:


> That's excellent news; do you know whether the software version numbers are the same for 508s as for 510s? Last I looked, my 510 was at P309, so 360 would seem to be a big jump.
> 
> Of course it would be sad indeed if all your hard work to get them to fix the 508s didn't convince them to fix the same problem on the 510s....
> 
> I'll check my software version in the morning. Thanks!
> 
> wr


The software versions are the same but I found out a couple of more things. P360 is not new, it is an alternate software version (that is being tested on us) that was rolled out at the same time as P309.

P360 will wake up to record when the receiver has been off a short time only. Otherwise it usually does record timers while it is off but it does not wake up to do this. It records while it is in standby mode with no recording light no nothing. Turning the receiver on stops recording. And sometimes the receiver still does not record timers while it is off. In these cases with P360 I suspect the timers themselves are corrupt because the same timers that didn't work also disappeared when they were done NOT recording, even though they were repeating timers.

Definitely buggy but at least I do now feel that DISH wants to try and fix the bugs. They changed my software version from P309 to P360 which I do not think is normal. When I called to report the above behavior advanced tech support was waiting for me LOL. Just took down my report and promised to send it to engineering with no troubleshooting questions.

Thanks,

Kirk


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## Geeke19

yeap mines started doing the same thing last week. Always have it to record WWE Friday Nite Smackdown on UPN, I checked it 10 mins ago and the timer didnt fire off to record it. Had to turn it off and turn it back on letting it download the guide and now it records. Yea I see now it didnt record 7 programs I had set to record today.


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## Geeke19

timer didnt go off 10 mins ago. The timer just froze had to turn the DVR off then when I turned it back on waited for it to lock on and redownload the guide. Jesus this is getting to be so annoying.


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## whiteryder

Okay, I'm finally willing to admit that leaving the unit on all the time is NOT a feasible workaround in the long run. I suppose if I could remember to reboot it once a day or so, it still might be okay, but if I forget and the Guide doesn't get updated, I can still lose timers and stuff doesn't get recorded.

So I guess I'll upgrade to a 522 or 625. I don't see the 522 mentioned on the Dish website any more, is it being discontinued like the 510? And is this a good thing (meaning I can get one cheap) or a bad thing (like, maybe there are problems with it)? What's the difference between the two models, does anyone know?

Am I better off buying one on my own, or through Dish? As long as it works, I guess I don't mind the contract, but I'd prefer to own the unit rather than leasing it. My first Dish 510 was a promotion for new subscribers, so I owned that from Day 1 - does anyone know if the Dish-it-up promotion involves leasing or can I purchase instead?

And if I buy one from eBay, what should I look for in the listing to give me some indication it's a good buy? (Besides guaranteed no balance of course!)

Finally, do I need to change any of my existing hardware in order to hook up one of these dual tuners? I have a super dish, but the local feed is turned off (after they installed it they couldn't find the satellite from my yard), so it operates pretty much like my old 500 dish. Do I need a DPP in order to use the receiver at all, or only if I want to use both tuners? (I.e. do I have to get it right away, or can I save in the short run by just getting the receiver first?)

Any advice is appreciated. 
thanks!
wr


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## whiteryder

I spoke with an engineer this afternoon. They have been trying to track down the event timer issue for a while now, but so far the units they have on hand do not exhibit the problem. He's asked me to send them my receiver so they can check it out.

This tells us several things:

(1) The problem isn't just one or two anomalies; there are at least enough of us experiencing it to get the attention of engineering 

(2) The problem is not purely a software issue, because it only happens with some receivers and not others

(3) Somebody "out there" IS listening 

wr
(I wonder if they're hiring?)


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## blarsenut

I finally called dish about my 508, it not waking up to record. (p360).
They made me buy a warranty for the dvr I own.
They sent me a new one (508) and want me to ship the old one back to them.

However, the new one they sent me, has the exact same problem.

I called tech support, she was going to e-mail the software developers.

What else can I do? What can we do?


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## whiteryder

blarsenut said:


> I finally called dish about my 508, it not waking up to record. (p360).
> They made me buy a warranty for the dvr I own.
> They sent me a new one (508) and want me to ship the old one back to them.
> 
> However, the new one they sent me, has the exact same problem.
> 
> I called tech support, she was going to e-mail the software developers.
> 
> What else can I do? What can we do?


At the moment, not much besides continue to make noise about the problem.

I leave my unit on 24/7, and try to remember to reboot it once a day or so to help keep it synchronized with the Guide. Usually, holding the power button down for a slow count of 15 is sufficient, but once I had to actually unplug it for a little while to completely reset it.

Hopefully once enough of us speak up, Dish will realize that it's not just an isolated bug and put more resources into fixing it.


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## gcoleman99

Kirk E said:


> The software versions are the same but I found out a couple of more things. P360 is not new, it is an alternate software version (that is being tested on us) that was rolled out at the same time as P309.
> 
> P360 will wake up to record when the receiver has been off a short time only. Otherwise it usually does record timers while it is off but it does not wake up to do this. It records while it is in standby mode with no recording light no nothing. Turning the receiver on stops recording. And sometimes the receiver still does not record timers while it is off. In these cases with P360 I suspect the timers themselves are corrupt because the same timers that didn't work also disappeared when they were done NOT recording, even though they were repeating timers.
> 
> Definitely buggy but at least I do now feel that DISH wants to try and fix the bugs. They changed my software version from P309 to P360 which I do not think is normal. When I called to report the above behavior advanced tech support was waiting for me LOL. Just took down my report and promised to send it to engineering with no troubleshooting questions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kirk


 We've got 2 DVR's (both 510s) and the LR one stopped recording the day's shows yesterday. She found this site because of it, and did what some of you suggested. It worked for one timer only. It was supposed to come on at 7:30 to record _Play With Me Sesame!_, but didn't fire up. She hit the 'on' button, and as soon as it powered up, it started recording. That DVR also has the P360 version.


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## whiteryder

I spoke with an engineer from Echostar/Dish today, someone whose group has been working on this timer sync issue. They think they may have found the problem, which is that the unit's internal clock doesn't restart properly after a loss of signal (even a very brief one that you might not notice visually). That would explain why it works right after a reboot, and then at some undetermined time later it stops working.

Since both Stargates are currently between seasons (what else are DVRs for?  ), I've said they can download the beta version of their fix to my receiver, hopefully sometime in the next week or so. If that goes well, then the production version of the fix could be sent out in a couple of weeks.

wr


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## techdir

Recently found this site. Have a 510 that worked flawlessly for 2.5 years up until P309/360. Then got random lockups and missed timers. I got P363 the other day and guess what... missed 3 timers today. So much for P363 solving timer issues.


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## whiteryder

P363 isn't supposed to fix the timer issue. 

The fix I mentioned will come later, once it has been shown to work in beta.

wr


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## AKDishuser

under contract law in all 50 states. I have a 510 that stopped recording reliably last winter. Recently it's gotten worse, to the point that the unit will not record from a timer unless it's already powered up. Meanwhile, I'm paying $5/month for the privilege of being able to record, and Dish Network continues to promote this service in my home town (Anchorage AK) with no mention of this major bug.

Last Sunday, before I realized this problem wasn't unique to me, I called tech support. They tried to charge me $50 for a replacement 510 DVR plus they wanted me to pay for an extended warranty! I asked for customer support and told the woman there that I don't pay the insurance on bad products -- poor products are the vendor's problem not mine. She offered a free 510.

Now I find out from this forum that the problem isn't my particular 510 unit -- it's a systemic problem Dish has known about for months. In fact, Dish has been public about this issue since August -- but only if you call and ask the right questions. Last night I got a promise of a refund of the programming fee for the past eight months plus no new programming fee for the next two months. After that, if the problem isn't fixed, I'm going cable plus TiVo.

Meanwhile I've got a "new" (actually obsolete and thus valueless) 510 arriving and 50+ hours of content on my old 510 that I can't transfer. My only option -- apart from giving Dish more $$ by buying a PocketDish -- is to spend 50+ hours videotaping from the hard drive. Yechh.

It is illegal for Dish to market and/or charge for a service its equipment and hardware cannot currently provide. Refunds should not just go to those who ask. They are due every user with this problem. I'm planning to see what I can do to raise interest in a class action suit, either in my own state or nationally. Will also be reporting on this fraud on CNet, to Consumer's Union, etc.


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## whiteryder

AKDishuser said:


> Now I find out from this forum that the problem isn't my particular 510 unit -- it's a systemic problem Dish has known about for months. In fact, Dish has been public about this issue since August -- but only if you call and ask the right questions.


It is unfortunately true that Dish's first-line customer service is poorly trained for the level of questions that we tend to throw at them. I wish it was easier to get bumped up to Advanced tech support, but then perhaps the Advanced folks would get overwhelmed with people who don't know how to operate their remote.

Part of the reason it is taking so long to fix this particular timer issue is that it is *not* (quite) systemic - if every 510 had the problem, then they could repeat it in the lab and figure out what's going on. But it doesn't happen with every 510, just some of them. (Like that funny noise that your car makes sometimes, that never seems to happen when the mechanic is listening.)

I can definitely vouch for the fact that the Echostar software engineers are working on the problem and doing the best they can with the information they have.

If you want to take it up with Dish whether they should be charging us in the meantime, that's a whole separate question. But I think it's stretching the issue to suggest that Dish is deliberately covering this up; I just don't think the folks who answer the phone generally have a clue what's going on. (Mind you, I've always found them to be nice and friendly - just clueless about the kind of issues I usually call with.)


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## Frostwolf

AKDishuser said:


> Meanwhile I've got a "new" (actually obsolete and thus valueless) 510 arriving and 50+ hours of content on my old 510 that I can't transfer. My only option


Would you be penalized for refusing the new unit with the shipper?? Can you cancel the replacement order?

Have you tried deleting all your timers, and reseting your unit ( hold the power key for like 30 secs and leave it alone for 15 minutes)? how bout leaving off at night ( not sure if that helps or not) Try setting up all timers to start one minute early?

do you have the latest firmware, I think is 3.63

Good luck. Mine has behaved since I set all timers to start one minute early, shortly after I recieved the 3.63 patch ( dunno what that did)


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## AKDishuser

Frostwolf said:


> Would you be penalized for refusing the new unit with the shipper?? Can you cancel the replacement order?
> 
> Have you tried deleting all your timers, and reseting your unit ( hold the power key for like 30 secs and leave it alone for 15 minutes)? how bout leaving off at night ( not sure if that helps or not) Try setting up all timers to start one minute early?
> 
> do you have the latest firmware, I think is 3.63
> 
> Good luck. Mine has behaved since I set all timers to start one minute early, shortly after I recieved the 3.63 patch ( dunno what that did)


Yes, I'm running P363 and have rebooted the system numerous times. It is only "on" (green light) for a few hours a day because I'm not a TV addict. One factor that may be hurting is that because I'm so far from the equator (61 degrees north) my antenna looks through a lot of thick atmosphere to see the 119 satellite. Loss of signal is frequent and I think I remember someone else commenting that this seems to be associated with the timer issue.

I don't want to leave the unit on 24/7. We pay over 13 cents/kWh for power here and the receiver is supposed to work for me, not the other way around. I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel or spend even more $ to make Dish's system work. If it doesn't perform as advertised for the contract fee, my capitalist instincts tell me it's time to penalize Dish for its poor product and take my consumer dollars elsewhere.

The new 510 arrived last night. I'm going to plug it in and test it for a week or so. If it has the same problem, back it goes -- free of charge because Dish is paying the shipping. But even if I keep it, I'll be taking my sweet time copying content off the old hard drive before shipping that unit back. I feel pretty "had" by Dish -- I don't see this as mere CSR ignorance but evidence of an attempt to cover up a major problem. I have another friend with Dish living nearby with the same issue and she's never gotten anywhere with tech support or the CSRs either.

Lest anyone think I'm trying to rip Dish off by keeping two 510s for awhile: I only have one, 22", 15 year old CRT TV in my house. I don't have enough time in my day to watch any more TV than I do now and would rather be out mountain climbing in my spare time.


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## ieee1394

You can now add me to the list of people with 510 problems. I've had this unit for, I dunno, two years at least. Aside from the random crashing that others have reported (like browsing the guide and getting kicked out when a timer fires, menus dropping colors, the whole thing just freezing up, and so on) the unit has worked more or less okay. But as of a few days ago things changed.

The first couple of times I shrugged it off to the fact that this is pretty much an underpowered piece of [email protected]#*! But yesterday a.m., while browsing the guide so my daughter could get her NickJR fix before school, I noticed that the 510 wasn't recording what it was supposed to be. The guide indicated that it was recording something else all together. No biggie, the program schedule must have changed (yet again!) right? Well, the thing is, flipping through the guide I noticed that there was another little clock indicator at the exact same time for another program all together. My 510 all of a sudden thought it could record TWO programs at the same time. And yet, later in the day, I noticed that it still managed to not record the correct problem at that time at all. WTF?

Lesseeee, between a floppy 129 satellite that makes me really reluctant to upgrade to HD (I'm on the West coast, west of Seattle) and this crazy DVR that will NEVER see NBR in my lifetime (I'm pretty much convinced of that!)....I just don't know why I bother with any of this anymore. Satellite used to be good... But I get much more value out of my $17/mth Netflix subscription...not to mention the far superior upconverted 480p picture on my 1080p LCD vs the seriously compressed SD programming that E* spews out nowadays!


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## RoyW

As of two days ago my now two year old leased 510 started skipping timers. The only time it records off a timer is the first time after a reboot. It doesn't record while turned on off a timer so that isn't a solution ether.

Dish is sending out a replacement for that unit but it sounds to me like that isn't going to help if it fails to record off timers also.

Our second 9 month old leased 510 started missing timers as of this morning and shows all the same characteristics as the first. In this case Dish refused to replace it because according to the Rep I haven't lost enough timers yet and should give it a couple more days.

I did notice that in spite of the first 510 being out of warranty no mention was made of me paying anything other then the $14.95 shipping one way. Of course if the new one is the same as the old then that is just another $14.95 down the drain.


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## ugxela

My 508 started skipping timers on the evening of October 31.
The timer won't start while it's off.
The timer sometimes starts while it's on, but I haven't detected any pattern to this.
Current software is P363.


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## catnap1972

I haven't been "lucky" enough to have the timer problems with my 510 yet, but mine has a nasty habit of breaking up and jumping/stopping for a split second on the locals (never on the cable nets) every couple of minutes. I'd originally thought that it might've been a hard drive issue, but that makes no sense, so it's either the tuner or buggy S/W causing it (363).


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## RoyW

catnap1972 said:


> I haven't been "lucky" enough to have the timer problems with my 510 yet, but mine has a nasty habit of breaking up and jumping/stopping for a split second on the locals (never on the cable nets) every couple of minutes. I'd originally thought that it might've been a hard drive issue, but that makes no sense, so it's either the tuner or buggy S/W causing it (363).


To date I haven't experienced your problem but am surprised that the failed timer bug isn't more widely spread. As of this morning we have missed timers more times then I'd care to discuss and no amount of reboots cures the problem beyond the first or second recording following one. At this point nether unit records timers consistently be they on or off.

When my second leased 510 failed the first couple timers I called Dish and the Tech refused to send a replacement, by the second day I realized it would be a waste anyway until this issue is addressed via a software fix and called to give Dish the characteristics to forward to their engineers.


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## edit4ever

Ok after almost four years of no real problems... my 508 now has joined the timer problem club. My 501 seems to be ok... and both are running 363. I am hoping that there is a fix in the works... I really enjoy using the 50x series without the DVR fee.

Wait -- any conspiracy theories out there???

Should I ask Dish to replace my 508 or wait a few more weeks to see if there is a software update?


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## jrbdmb

My 508 is also missing timers. Someone at satguys suggested (1) doing a "pull yellow card" reboot, which I will try tonight, and (2) this may be due to the time change on the 29th (and the 5xx not handling it right).


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## speedy882001

You can also add me to the mix. I have a 508 that has been working good for over 2 years. Just this past weekend started to notice that it skips recordings. I started to blame it on my 7 year old daughter but then realized that shows from last week were missed also. I did the unplug, reload the guide data and all the internal testing that I could to the box but after reading here looks like there is a software bug.

What are the latest results for calling in the Dish? I own my 508 and keep it because of the no DVR fee. Do we all just get to suffer for awhile?


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## RoyW

speedy882001 said:


> You can also add me to the mix. I have a 508 that has been working good for over 2 years. Just this past weekend started to notice that it skips recordings. I started to blame it on my 7 year old daughter but then realized that shows from last week were missed also. I did the unplug, reload the guide data and all the internal testing that I could to the box but after reading here looks like there is a software bug.
> 
> What are the latest results for calling in the Dish? I own my 508 and keep it because of the no DVR fee. Do we all just get to suffer for awhile?


I strongly recommend folks with the spare time on their hands call into Dish and at the very least explain the symptoms your 5XX model is experiencing. Be advised though that you need to talk to a Tech and as a rule in spite of keying all the correct numbers to talk with a Tech generally you end up with a clueless CRS and have to be dropped back into the system for a second try at getting an actual Tech.

As for a Dish conspiracy to dump 501/508 because they aren't paying a DVR fee I seriously doubt it because its effecting the 510 receivers as well.


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## Ray_Schwarz

On Saturday, I called Dish and reported that all of my DVRs (508, 510, 510) had started failing last week. I went through all of the "normal" fixes, Power Off Reset etc. All continued to fail intermittently over the weekend and I was getting signal loses as well.

Called this morning after signal loss on the 508 and one of the 510s. The CSR said this was a general failure and that at least forty reports of timer failures within this time frame were on file. They will be releasing a fix within the next 48 hours.

My timer failures were all not waking up to record - I found that if the receivers were on, the timers would fire.

Ray Schwarz


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## jimbobpdx

You can add me to the growing list of people with this problem. Everything was fine until P363. Specifically, a program timer set up for recording every M-F stopped working on November 1. Now, at least half the timers I have set up don't record.

I have two 510's and the problem appears isolated to just one of them.

And for what it's worth, I've noticed lately that when I press the POWER ON button on the remote that there's a delay of a couple of seconds for the unit's power light to come on. This just started happening in the last week or so.

Based on my experience and reading about everyone else, I'm absolutely convinced this is a software problem since it didn't happen (at least with any regularity) until P360 or P363.

I'm pretty ticked off since I'm wasting a lot of time trying to keep it working and it's still pretty useless. I've been a DISH customer since their first year. I'm not going to try calling on the phone because I know it will be a waste of my time. (I've had nothing but bad experiences with their call center for anything more than the simplest routine tasks.) I'm pretty busy this week so they'll get a few days reprieve, but if it isn't fixed this week, I'll be calling the cable company. As much as I've disliked the cable company in the past, they now offer all digital programming with a dual tuner DVR at a competitive cost.

[And it's just a matter of a few years until TV will be Internet based anyway. If I were D* or E*, I'd be fearing that my business will be shrinking soon, not growing.]


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## AKDishuser

RoyW said:


> I did notice that in spite of the first 510 being out of warranty no mention was made of me paying anything other then the $14.95 shipping one way. Of course if the new one is the same as the old then that is just another $14.95 down the drain.


Roy, DO NOT PAY Dish FOR ANYTHING related to fixing this problem. You owe them NOTHING, legally. There is an implied warranty of service under your contract with Dish. You have been paying them every month for services they cannot provide because they have software and hardware problems they haven't been able to fix. It is THEIR responsibilty to get you a working DVR. As long as consumers like you and many others on this discussion board are willing to pay for new equipment, upgrades, shipping, etc., Dish will continue to drag its feet on fixing the problem. Meanwhile they are continuing to sell nw contracts with no mention of these longstanding, widepsread service problems. This is fraudulent. If there are any Dish employees reading these posts, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves!

If Dish can no longer support the 510 DVR, why are they continuing to bill me and others for it????


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## AKDishuser

By the way, Roy and others: I own my 510 DVR and it is completely out of warranty, but when I let Dish's customer service reps know I understood contract and consumer protection laws, they said they'd send me a free replacement 510 and also pay all the shipping. They are also refunding/waiving the $5/mo DVR fee for all the months since the timer problems started through the month they finally fix it, assuming I'm still a Dish customer by then.

Legally and ethically, Dish owes the same free equipment, free shipping, and refund of DVR fees to every customer with this problem.


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## Milleruszk

Add me to this "problem" list. One of my 510s stopped recording preset programming on Nov 1. The unit will not wake up to record a program. If I leave the unit on it will record a timer program. This is a leased box. I have not called Dish yet as I know it will be an aggravating experience.


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## j wherley

This list is growing fast! I too have a 508 that will not record a timer unless it is left on, it started this over a year ago! The record light is on but the harddrive fails to spin up untill you turn it on! I also have a 501 and another 508 that I have no problem with!! jw


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## redhorse1973

I thought I was the only one...This just started to happen over the weekend for me.


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## Milleruszk

Is this just a couple of dead rats or the plague?


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## pringerx

Thank goodness I'm not alone. I also started to notice this problem at the beginning of November where my 510 would just ignore timers in its sleep state. I set it up to record _Amazing Race_ last night but it stayed off. I went to the Timer menu and saw the timer was still there... didn't activate... So I recorded manually. Not something I want to do often. The other 508 does not have this problem (both have P363).

I'll try unplugging and check switch to re-download the guide like some of you suggested and maybe it will help (honestly, it couldn't hurt).


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## speedy882001

Milleruszk said:


> Is this just a couple of dead rats or the plague?


Thanks for the laugh, needed that this morning! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## RoyW

AKDishuser said:


> Roy, DO NOT PAY Dish FOR ANYTHING related to fixing this problem. You owe them NOTHING, legally. There is an implied warranty of service under your contract with Dish. You have been paying them every month for services they cannot provide because they have software and hardware problems they haven't been able to fix. It is THEIR responsibilty to get you a working DVR. As long as consumers like you and many others on this discussion board are willing to pay for new equipment, upgrades, shipping, etc., Dish will continue to drag its feet on fixing the problem. Meanwhile they are continuing to sell nw contracts with no mention of these longstanding, widepsread service problems. This is fraudulent. If there are any Dish employees reading these posts, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves!
> 
> If Dish can no longer support the 510 DVR, why are they continuing to bill me and others for it????


Thank you for your advice AKDishuser, a polite e-mail rectified the shipping charge and a months worth of DVR fees to include the DVR fee on my 625 in spite of its lack of recording problems.


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## Dax

Add another to the list of 510 DVRs not waking up to record a timer unless I leave it on. It started doing this about a week ago. Haven't called Dish yet because they'll probably just want to replace it, and I don't think it's a hardware problem.


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## RoyW

Dax said:


> Add another to the list of 510 DVRs not waking up to record a timer unless I leave it on. It started doing this about a week ago. Haven't called Dish yet because they'll probably just want to replace it, and I don't think it's a hardware problem.


The one replacement receiver Dish sent me is scheduled to be delivered late today. I'll swap it out and check a few timers to see if its any better. Of course its going to download the newest software as soon as I connect it however there may be slight differences in the builds, we shall see.


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## Milleruszk

RoyW said:


> The one replacement receiver Dish sent me is scheduled to be delivered late today. I'll swap it out and check a few timers to see if its any better. Of course its going to download the newest software as soon as I connect it however there may be slight differences in the builds, we shall see.


Roy, how do you download the latest software? Is this done automatically when you unplug and plug in the unit? Thanks


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## Milleruszk

speedy882001 said:


> Thanks for the laugh, needed that this morning! :lol: :lol: :lol:


UR welcome. My old boss used to say that when everything seemed to be going wrong.


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## davelindac5

I started having this same problem when the time changed to standard time so I thought it was related to that. All of my timers were starting an hour late and I reset them and thought the problem was solved. Then I realized the system is not waking up to record set timers. Last night I unplugged the power cord, pulled the smartcard, etc. and I also did a memory dump. After doing all of this my timers were all erased along with all of my "Favorite" settings. I reset my favorites and set timers for two morning shows and turned off the receiver for the night. This morning I turned on the receiver to be greeted with "Congratulations! You own a Dish 500". My settings were all erased again. But I set up the Favorites and the two timers again in hopes that the problem would now be fixed. I turned off the receiver and waited but the receiver still did not wake up on time for the first timer. I manually started it and left the system on and the second program recorded on time. I have not called Dish yet because I have several programs saved that I haven't had a chance to watch. Because my problem started when the time changed I would assume the bug may be related to the internal clock.


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## RoyW

Milleruszk said:


> Roy, how do you download the latest software? Is this done automatically when you unplug and plug in the unit? Thanks


The 510 receiver Dish sends me is most likely a rebuilt and may not have the current software installed. The first time you connect its going to attempt to update, you'll get a warning not to touch it while this is taking place. This is different then a receiver you've been operating and is already activated. About all you can do it that case is to ensure you've checked "Without my permission" or "Ask before downloading" found under 5 System Upgrades inside your Menu and wait for it to happen.


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## origkds

My 508 went to h*** about the same time as everyone else. Too bad- it was working great for 2+ years. I'm a recovering Dishplayer owner so this brings back nightmares. Back to thearpy.


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## RoyW

Well my replacement 510 was delivered late yesterday afternoon and successfully recorded three shows in a roll off timers following activation. Its still early in the game to declare victory though. 

I did notice it doesn't have one other bug the old one displayed in that if you highlighted a program to record off the guide and clicked "Select", instead of getting the option page for recording it bounced you right back to viewing the live program. With both my two older 510 receivers the just replaced unit and one other I generally had/have to highlight and click a program a half dozen times before actually getting the record option page.

My last original leased 510 is still continuing to miss timers, it can't be trusted at all and assuming the replacement unit holds up I'll probably seek a replacement for this one soon.


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## kcnjohn

After a week of missing on some timers my Dish 510 recorded the three programs that I had set. Hopefully, the issue is solved.


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## ugxela

Was it fixed through a software download or do have some trick that you can share?
-Alex


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## Milleruszk

ugxela said:


> Was it fixed through a software download or do have some trick that you can share?
> -Alex


I'm still confused over the software download. Can someone walk me through the process? Thanks.


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## kcnjohn

ugxela said:


> Was it fixed through a software download or do have some trick that you can share?
> -Alex


I all I did was reset the boxe once. I have a timer set for today. I hope it will work.


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## snowman

I changed a setting on my 508, I set 'Inactivity Power Off' to disabled.

And my timers have been working for the last 4 days. 

Wonder if anybody else has seen similar response?


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## pringerx

Just did the front panel reset and everything is (mysteriously) ok again. Timers are waking up to record now. Thanks for the tips guys.


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## ch3

I believe the key is to let the receiver powered up. I have only missed timers when the receiver has been powered down.

The first night it happened, it missed 3 timers, but a timer later in the night did fire. I think the receiver must have woken itself up to download the guide or something. But it does not appear to wake itself up for a timer.

Though I'm not sure (haven't tested it), but it may wake up if it's in standby mode (i.e. put itself to sleep). Perhaps not and leaving the inactivity setting off will help.

Since I realized what the problem is, I simply let the receiver on at night and I don't miss any timers. In the morning I turn it off, since I have no timers during the day.


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## speedy882001

I too have found that if I have the box turned on, then timers work.

Tried to record The Unit the other night. Had my 508 turned off. It did not turn on and start recording. Once I turned on the box I had to manually record the show. I set up a few things to record overnight and left it turned on and they all recorded fine.

I guess the next thing I need to do is change the setting to not go into the sleep mode. That has hung my 508 up on other days.


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## Ray_Schwarz

Ray_Schwarz said:


> On Saturday, I called Dish and reported that all of my DVRs (508, 510, 510) had started failing last week. I went through all of the "normal" fixes, Power Off Reset etc. All continued to fail intermittently over the weekend and I was getting signal loses as well.
> 
> Called this morning after signal loss on the 508 and one of the 510s. The CSR said this was a general failure and that at least forty reports of timer failures within this time frame were on file. They will be releasing a fix within the next 48 hours.
> 
> My timer failures were all not waking up to record - I found that if the receivers were on, the timers would fire.
> 
> Ray Schwarz


Yesterday (Wednesday) morning, all three of my DVRs were again waking up to fire. The CSR on my Monday call had stated that the problem was not in the receivers and they would apply the fix without rolling the software.

Ray Schwarz


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## RoyW

Ray_Schwarz said:


> Yesterday (Wednesday) morning, all three of my DVRs were again waking up to fire. The CSR on my Monday call had stated that the problem was not in the receivers and they would apply the fix without rolling the software.
> 
> Ray Schwarz


Thank you for an interesting insight into how many reports Dish has received and the fact that a software update was implemented to alleviate the problem. I have to believe that it was some form of interim update that created it in the first place in spite of our receivers still displaying the same software number.

My now replaced leased 510 hasn't missed a timer since Wednesday ether and our other leased 510 has been recording timers without failure since yesterday also. Both I might add are awakening from sleep mode to do these successful timers.


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## edit4ever

My 508 has returned to normal as well. I'm glad Dish is willing to quickly address these kinds of problems!

Now... where is that NBR??


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## redhorse1973

Guys, just did a hard reset, 510 pvr working fine now!


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## EddieJ

My 510 is still missing timers. I deleted all my timers, performed a "Default Factory Settings", and power cycled the 510. After it re-booted, I set some timers for this morning and turned it off. It did not record either event.

I called Dish multiple times over the past week. They say I can get another 510 sent to me but they can not guarantee that it will not have the same problem. I also have to send my current 510 back to them within 10 days. This means that all the movies that are on my 510 will be lost. They suggested copying the movies to VHS tape.

Some things dish asked for:
Software Version: P363
Boot Strap: 22AB
DNASP: 102 Rev 10B 

What is a hard reset? Does your working 510 have the same software settings listed above?


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## Ray_Schwarz

EddieJ said:



> My 510 is still missing timers. I deleted all my timers, performed a "Default Factory Settings", and power cycled the 510. After it re-booted, I set some timers for this morning and turned it off. It did not record either event.
> 
> I called Dish multiple times over the past week. They say I can get another 510 sent to me but they can not guarantee that it will not have the same problem. I also have to send my current 510 back to them within 10 days. This means that all the movies that are on my 510 will be lost. They suggested copying the movies to VHS tape.
> 
> Some things dish asked for:
> Software Version: P363
> Boot Strap: 22AB
> DNASP: 102 Rev 10B
> 
> What is a hard reset? Does your working 510 have the same software settings listed above?


On one of my 510s:
Software Version: P363
Boot Strap: 23AB <<< Different
DNASP: 102 Rev 10B

A "Hard Reset" can be done from the front panel holding the power key for 15 - 20 seconds or by unpluging the 510 for the same amount of time.

During the time my wake-up timers were out, I found they would fire if the 510 was powered on. This 510 recovered as did the 508 and the other 510 even though I left it on all night Tuesday/Wednesday to record a program on after midnight. This leads me to suspect they made a change without downloading new software to the 510.

Ray Schwarz


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## AKDishuser

I have called Dish numerous times about this problem over the past two months. My replacement 510 missed all 10 timers I had set before going away for a week last week. Came home last night to find the DVR on (I'd left it off) but NONE of the programs I'd set timers for had been recorded.

I called Dish three times today (was disconnected or intentionally hung up upon twice) and talked to a guy from tech support who is a member of this board. He told me the failed timer issue was limited to only a few hundred of Dish's thousands of subscribers, i.e. don't hold your breath about a fix because Dish has LOTS of problems right now and cannot possibly solve them all. However, reading the posts above make me think he was minimizing the situation, because apparently this bug is affecting many more than a few hundred others.

He would not commit to any date for a fix.

I am still running P363. Are the people who claim their problem has been fixed by Dish running updated software? And has anyone asked for a rollback to whatever version we were running last winter? That's when my problems started. I get so little functionality from my subscription here in Alaska (no interactive stuff, no 110 satellite) that I really don't care about bells and whistles on "updated" software, especially if it means I can't set timers, which is the whole point of a DVR.

Right now I have two 510s -- the original one which I own, and a replacement that has not fared any better. I will not send either back unless and until Dish fixes the problem. If it's in the hardware, all I can say is Dish certainly designed and built a lousy box for the failure rate to be so high (well over 50% based on what folks here say about replacement 510s).


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## Frostwolf

AKDishuser said:


> And has anyone asked for a rollback to whatever version we were running last winter?


I have asked for an older version , but the tech support says they can't (won't more like it) do that.

I do firmware upgrades and downgrades from cell phones to xerox machines, it can be done almost all the time.


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## EddieJ

My 510 still does not wake up to record even after the front panel reset, deleting old timers, etc. I test it by setting timers and turning off the power. I don't think it has powered up since Nov 8th or so.

Dish Tech support (last Thursday) said they had a tech bulletin stating that the timer problems would be resolved after performing a front panel reset after Nov 8th. It has not helped my 510.


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## Milleruszk

EddieJ said:
 

> My 510 still does not wake up to record even after the front panel reset, deleting old timers, etc. I test it by setting timers and turning off the power. I don't think it has powered up since Nov 8th or so.
> 
> Dish Tech support (last Thursday) said they had a tech bulletin stating that the timer problems would be resolved after performing a front panel reset after Nov 8th. It has not helped my 510.


My problem seems (fingers crossed) to have been fixed. My timer has recorded programs from the power off position for the last 4 days. I did a hard reset once when the problem first appeared. I guess I am one of the lucky ones.


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## EddieJ

I got another 510 from Dish and after 3 hours of switch testing, I finally got the P363 software loaded onto the new 510. The factory default software of P008 does not recognize my SW21 switch. This is actually the second 510 they sent me because after 2 hours of switch testing, the first receiver would not recognize my SW21 switch.

So, I set 4 timers yerterday, turned off the 510, and checked it this morning and only 1 program was recorded.

Looks like I will be calling Dish back again today.


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## reddice

If they are going to break something with this useless Dish on Demand update they did during the summer at least give us a real on Demand like the cable companies give you and not want more money for on Demand PPV crap that makes the hard drive spin up and spin down every five minutes just to wear it our quicker.

My receiver just missed a timer now at midnight from recording. I checked and it was still listed but it did not record. I wish I can downgrade to the software revision from before the summer. I can downgrade video drivers when the new ones don't work good but this broken updates are forced upon us. I just might leave my receiver on all the time and do a daily reboot so it downloads the guide.


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## jrbdmb

My wife claims that "her" 508 has missed a few timers in the last week, so I'm not sure that this issue with the 5xx receivers is totally resolved.

Is anyone else still having issues?


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## Frostwolf

jrbdmb said:


> My wife claims that "her" 508 has missed a few timers in the last week, so I'm not sure that this issue with the 5xx receivers is totally resolved.
> 
> Is anyone else still having issues?


Still have them miss every once in a while, not as bad since the so called patch


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## blarsenut

My 508 still doesn't wake up to record.

What are the steps you are supposed to take for this to take effect?

I've deleted all the timers and did a front panel reset?

Anything else I should be trying?


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## Frostwolf

blarsenut said:


> My 508 still doesn't wake up to record.
> 
> What are the steps you are supposed to take for this to take effect?
> 
> I've deleted all the timers and did a front panel reset?
> 
> Anything else I should be trying?


try turning off the power off on inactivity and I seem to have better results making sure I set start one minute early.

good luck


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