# Hopper 3 picture quality vs Hopper 2?



## glabrecque

I just had a Hopper 3 system installed the other day to replace my Hopper 2 and noticed that the picture quality is pretty terrible (below DVD quality) compared to my Hopper 2. I have a LG 65EF9500 and also noticed that when I turn the Hopper 3 on it turns on the HDR setting on my tv no matter what the content. I know the Hopper 3 is HDR compatable but there is no content yet so it should only turn on when the movie or show is HDR not all the time. Could that be effecting the picture quality in any way? All my TV settings are correct and the same as it was on the Hopper 2 so I am not sure neither is dish tech support or the tech who installed my system what the issue is but it is pretty hard to watch.


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## Blowgun

Defective unit, perhaps?


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## glabrecque

It's possible I suppose but everything seems to work normal other than a terrible picture.


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## Blowgun

Do you have a different TV that you can test?


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## glabrecque

Yes but not another 4k HDR capable tv and the other TVs are all 1080p sets with Joeys and look fine.


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## glabrecque

If it was easy to swap the hopper and a joey just to test it I might try that.


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## Mayank

I do not have Hopper 3, so the following is from my experience from Hopper 2. If the same option is present in Hopper 3, it wont hurt to try.

Change the setting on the Hopper under (Setting->Screen Adjustment->HDTV) to send a 480p signal to your TV. Let it run this way for a minute.. then set it back to 1080p. See if that helps. In Hopper 2, that helped me with the picture quality as for some reason, even though the Hopper indicated a 1080p signal, it was only sending 480p.


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## glabrecque

I did try that the new setting is 4k, 1080p and 1080i in one then 720p, 480p below that. None of the setting seemed to effect the picture at all which was also strange to me.


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## lparsons21

Are you connecting the H3 direct to the tv or going through an AVR?


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## patmurphey

This problem is NOT reported by the many others who have received Hopper 3s.


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## lparsons21

The LG's kicking in HDR has been reported in other places but one poster said since last night his doesn't do it any more.


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## Mayank

glabrecque said:


> I did try that the new setting is 4k, 1080p and 1080i in one then 720p, 480p below that. None of the setting seemed to effect the picture at all which was also strange to me.


Thats wierd! For a change in this setting the Image size should change and the picture quality should go down/become better depending on the setting. Is there an option in your tv to up-convert the lower signals? If yes, try disabling those. It seems that the hopper is only sending lower resolution signal.

Also, as IParson21 pointed out, please do all tests by connecting the Hopper output directly to the TV. (no AVR/Switch in between the Hopper and TV).


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## lparsons21

If you are going through an AVR then ensure the HDMI is set to bypass. On my Denon I tested both ways, bypass and letting the AVR affect the video, and bypass allows for a better picture.


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## camo

I don't think the OP mentioned he had an AVR. My question is why was installer allowed to leave with such a lousy image in first place.


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## lparsons21

That's why I said "if"! 

And your question is spot on!

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## glabrecque

All 4k devices have to go direct to the TV unless you happen to have a 4k switching AV receiver which I do not have yet. I have 4 other TVs with Joeys connected and they all seem fine.


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## scottchez

Other site has a solution, could be same poster.
1. replace HDMI cable 
2. For some reason just playing a 4K video resets the video res and forces it up even when a reboot does not fix it.
Even works if TV is only 1080P

Dish has a Free 4K show on demand for everyone to try called _Defiance_
_ search for it._
_TO find the 4K go to one demand and go down to the 4K section, it is there._

_Did I say it was Free!_


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## glabrecque

I have a brand new hi speed HDMI cable and I also tried 2 other cables?


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## scottchez

More ideas . . .
Most TVs have an info button or some other status screen to tell you what the TV says it is receiving. Does the TV think it is getting 1080i ?
Did you try the free test 4K TV shows that Dish put out there for everyone, it might kick the box to the correct setting.
Sure does sound like your stuck in 480i mode which is a tad less than DVD quality. 
It will do that if after a reboot,

If the dish software thinks you do not have a HDTV which is determined through the HDMI cable handshake so if the above does not work, look again at the HDMI part, maybe try a different HDMI port on the TV in case its bad. The software checks at boot up time so make sure the TV is on and set to get 1080i (a TV setting)


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## glabrecque

My TV is showing 1080i with normal dish programming yes looks like 480i. On the test 4k show it is showing 2160p and has a great picture but reverts back to the bad picture when I go back to normal programming. So that eliminates the TV or HDMI cable as the problem. It has to be something with the standard dish programming. The bitrate is very low or it is not actually in 1080i.


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## bmetelsky

glabrecque said:


> My TV is showing 1080i with normal dish programming yes looks like 480i. On the test 4k show it is showing 2160p and has a great picture but reverts back to the bad picture when I go back to normal programming. So that eliminates the TV or HDMI cable as the problem. It has to be something with the standard dish programming. The bitrate is very low or it is not actually in 1080i.


I would contact DISH so they can send someone out to troubleshoot and/or replace the unit. Most reports from folks that have the Hopper 3 is that the pq is better than it was on the older Hoppers. I had DirecTv until the H3 came out and it is hard for me to tell the difference between the two as far as pq now.


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## scottchez

An other Ideas, really a long shot but I thought I would throw it out there, my wife was also just watching SD as it changed.

1.
New on the Hopper 3 new GUI they changed the way channels are shown in the Guide. No HD symbol means its in HD, small SD means its in SD
Also in the guide settings you can force it to show HD when SD is AVL
Any chance you are looking at the SD version of the channel, its backwards now.
Hit info on a channel look for the HD symbol.

2. Go to Diags check Dish signal. Example: western Arch most HD is on the 129 sat. 110 and 119 is more SD

Really time to call Dish. Sounds defective to me


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## glabrecque

My guide only shows HD channels and yes they are sending me a new box to try. Hope it fixes the issue.


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## Blowgun

You can set the preferred HD option for the EPG, but that doesn't mean that the receiver will tune to the HD channel. If the receiver encounters an issue with the HD channel it will revert, if available, to the SD version of the channel. It's been my experience that the Hopper will not go back to the HD version on it's own when the HD signal returns. However, if the HD signal is never there, then there's nothing to go back to and will always tune to the SD version even if the EPG says the channel is in HD. As scottchez mentioned, check that you have good signal on all satellites.


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## Blowgun

When I upgraded in 2014 to the HwS I asked the Tech what he considered to be acceptable signal levels for the Reno DMA. Based on that conversation I came up with the following chart:

Satellite | Transponder | Signal
----------+-------------+-------
110 | 15 | 59-70
119 | 11 | 64-70
129 | 19 | 40-45

I don't know how accurate the chart is or how wide of a geographical area the values cover, but hopefully it will give you some idea of what to expect when you go into Diagnostics and check your signal levels .


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## glabrecque

Right I understand that but going from and HD to and SD channel is a whole different problem. They wouldn't all be widescreen. It is very obvious when you go to an SD channel. This is not the same issue.


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## Mark4470

Sorry you are having issues. So to get 4K content to my tv. I can't run through a onkyo Reciever for sound the hdmi cable has to go directly from the hopper to the tv?
Thanks!


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## peds48

Mark4470 said:


> Sorry you are having issues. So to get 4K content to my tv. I can't run through a onkyo Reciever for sound the hdmi cable has to go directly from the hopper to the tv?
> Thanks!


unless your Onkio supports all the 4K requirements, then yes. You need to connect directly to the TV.

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## Stewart Vernon

Assuming it works like other Dish receivers... remember the "*" format button that allows zoom and stretch settings on HD and SD channels. SD channels also have a different "remembered" setting than HD ones... so make sure you check that to verify that you don't accidentally have the picture zoomed or stretched.


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## glabrecque

Well I have now tried 2 new Hopper 3 boxes and both have the same terrible picture compared to my Hopper 2. Dish is sending a tech to check the LNB and switch but it is just all they have left to try.


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## camo

Curious did you check signals blowgun suggested? Most likely something is wrong with the HD feed signal so hopper is diverting over to SD automatically. I've had it happen with heavy thunderstorms. Really surprised the original installer left you in this condition in the first place.


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## glabrecque

It was his first Hopper 3 install and the SD feeds would not be widescreen.


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## inkahauts

Doesn't the hopper have zoom and crop features for SD? So maybe....


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## bmetelsky

It's all a big guessing game until the tech comes out to troubleshoot.


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## jsuboh

Have you adjusted the screen settings on the H3 with the round circles? I know mine was not set up by the tech and things kinda looked worse than my H1 until I adjusted the screen settings.


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## Blowgun

camo said:


> Curious did you check signals blowgun suggested?


It would seem the short answer is, no. I suppose another possibility could be flaky coax. To a much lessor extent, the other person also seems to think that SD channels can't have a wide-screen appearance.


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## Stewart Vernon

I haven't seen any confirmation that the format (*) settings have been checked to make sure it isn't in a zoom/stretch mode.


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## glabrecque

It is not zoomed in SD channels lol Give me a little credit I wouldn't be complaining if it was any normal adjustment I could make trust me.


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## patmurphey

The Hopper 3 delivers a better picture to TVs, so if there is a degradation in quality on your system, it lies somewhere else, especially since you tried another box. Without rereading the thread, have you connected the Hopper 3 directly to your TV, and are you sure that you have exhausted all of the setting choices on all your equipment?


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## glabrecque

The Hopper 3 has to go directly to your TV unless you have a 4k capable receiver so it is Hopper 3 directly to TV. Nothing else in my system matters. Hopper 2 directly connected the same exact way and Hopper 2 had a much better picture.


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## Mark4470

glabrecque said:


> The Hopper 3 has to go directly to your TV unless you have a 4k capable receiver so it is Hopper 3 directly to TV. Nothing else in my system matters. Hopper 2 directly connected the same exact way and Hopper 2 had a much better picture.


You can run through a reciecer even though it is not 4k compatible you will only receive signal in 1080


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## SevenSixTwo

I think my picture is WAY better than the Hopper with sling I had. The Hopper 3 kills it. Getting my 4K Joey tomorrow!


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## glabrecque

Mark4470 said:


> You can run through a reciecer even though it is not 4k compatible you will only receive signal in 1080


Correct but it is a 4k capable box and netflix will eventually be 4k on the hopper 3 so might as well bypass receiver until I can get a 4k capable receiver.


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## glabrecque

SevenSixTwo said:


> I think my picture is WAY better than the Hopper with sling I had. The Hopper 3 kills it. Getting my 4K Joey tomorrow!


I wish I could say the same. My picture with the Hopper 3 is laughably bad.


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## glabrecque

glabrecque said:


> Correct but it is a 4k capable box and netflix will eventually be 4k on the hopper 3 so might as well bypass receiver until I can get a 4k capable receiver.


My pictures looks like I took a 480p youtube video and played it full screen on my 4k tv.


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## Mark4470

glabrecque said:


> Correct but it is a 4k capable box and netflix will eventually be 4k on the hopper 3 so might as well bypass receiver until I can get a 4k capable receiver.


Absolutely! I just ordered a Yamaha 4k receiver from Crutchfield. I hope you get it figured out because our h3 was a big upgrade in pq.


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## inkahauts

glabrecque said:


> I wish I could say the same. My picture with the Hopper 3 is laughably bad.


Have you tried a different electrical outlet for the hopper 3? Just a wild chance that might change things. This is just one of those odd things... A puzzle everyone wants to solve.


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## SevenSixTwo

Ok here's an idea. When the tech hooked mine up, the picture was black on the screen. It showed it was getting a signal as the warning that there was no signal went away. We went as far as a different hopper 3. I reset the tv back to factory new then turned it off and on...worked perfectly after that. Just a suggestion.


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## patmurphey

One other question/suggestion. Did you try unplugging your TV to reset it?


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## glabrecque

Tech came out this morning and pretty much told me to go back to a Hopper 2 until they fix the issue with a software update. So basically did nothing.


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## camo

glabrecque said:


> Tech came out this morning and pretty much told me to go back to a Hopper 2 until they fix the issue with a software update. So basically did nothing.


Software update? WTF


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## scottchez

I was able to reproduce the issue, plugged in my generic HDTV. 
Looks like the Hopper 3 could to read and send back the HDCP signal for copy protection so dish dropped to 480P
If you look in the guide and show all channels almost all of them have a SD channel and an HD channel, I am not sure if the Hopper 3 changed to the SD channel or just down covernted to 480P
-
CONCLUSION the TV is just not compatible with the HD copy protection standard or there is a bug in the Dish software. Bad HDMI cables, Bad HDMI ports and bad boards on the TV can also cause this issue.


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## SevenSixTwo

That sounds wrong to me.


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## camo

Scott if you reproduced the issue plugging into a non 4k TV is this what you mean saying generic HDTV? Anyway doubt its a hdmi cable issue. Odds of both you and having bad cables not good? Does sounds like a Hopper 3 issue, something overlooked before going prime time.

I'll wait before considering any upgrade for this to clear up. You never know what results come from making the hopper 3 compliant with all TV's and how it affects the wonderful new chipset. Does it still look better than the hopper 2. I'm not interested in 16 separate turners, just interested if it produces a better image.


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## SevenSixTwo

Mine is way better than hopper 2. VERY noticeable improvement. Samsung 4K tv.


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## Mark4470

SevenSixTwo said:


> Mine is way better than hopper 2. VERY noticeable improvement. Samsung 4K tv.


Ditto


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## scottchez

I reproduced it on last years 4K Generic TV brand name of Sceptre.
It was real cheap. I never heard of the brand before but it says it does 4K, says 4K right on it.
Using the same cables it works fine on my main TV. This one is just in the DEN so HD is not too important, I did it just as a test.

Suggestion: try forcing the Dish into 720P mode (its in settings), might help the TV go to a different hand shake mode.

CONCLUSION: its a TV main board issues or Dish is just not compatible with the copy protection requirements to hand shake with this very generic TV.



camo said:


> Scott if you reproduced the issue plugging into a non 4k TV is this what you mean saying generic HDTV? Anyway doubt its a hdmi cable issue. Odds of both you and having bad cables not good? Does sounds like a Hopper 3 issue, something overlooked before going prime time.
> 
> I'll wait before considering any upgrade for this to clear up. You never know what results come from making the hopper 3 compliant with all TV's and how it affects the wonderful new chipset. Does it still look better than the hopper 2. I'm not interested in 16 separate turners, just interested if it produces a better image.


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## glabrecque

I have an LG 65EF9500 not a generic TV


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## camo

So the Hopper 3, Fails with at least 2 brands of 4K TV's LG 65EF9500 and Sceptre with no HD ability at all, welcome back to SD vision......nice.


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## david_jr

jsuboh said:


> Have you adjusted the screen settings on the H3 with the round circles? I know mine was not set up by the tech and things kinda looked worse than my H1 until I adjusted the screen settings.


I have read several reports of people having to do this with a Hopper 3 with terrible picture out of the box. The reports I read said this fixed the issue.


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## camo

I'm reading about many reports in Dish forum having same issue including one report of this model. Samsung UN65JS8500 65-Inch 4K Ultra HD 3D Smart LED TV.


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## patmurphey

On the Samsung, do not adjust the picture with the Dish corner circle option. Go the the TV Menu, picture adjustment and set "fit to screen". My Samsung UHD (with 3500K Evolution box) has an excellent picture from the Hopper 3.


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## glabrecque

Yes I had adjusted the circles when we did the initial install. Doesn't fix my issue at all.


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## SevenSixTwo

As far as I can tell the circle adjustment just makes the guide fit right. Has nothing to do with the picture.


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## camo

SevenSixTwo said:


> As far as I can tell the circle adjustment just makes the guide fit right. Has nothing to do with the picture.


I was thinking the same thing what does that have to do with SD pixels vs HD.


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## SevenSixTwo

Nothing.


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## patmurphey

glabrecque said:


> Yes I had adjusted the circles when we did the initial install. Doesn't fix my issue at all.





SevenSixTwo said:


> As far as I can tell the circle adjustment just makes the guide fit right. Has nothing to do with the picture.


My point was that the circles are irrelevant for a 1080p or 4k TV if you set them to the pixel for pixel setting on the TV menu (in the case of a Samsung 4k TV it;s cal "fit to screen"). The guide will then fit right. I doubt that is significant to the OP's problem, but the subject was brought up and called for correction.


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## SevenSixTwo

Glad you corrected it then.


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## Options2k

I replaced my hopper 2 with hopper 3 yesterday and I am having similar issues as the OP albeit the picture quality is not as bad. However, hopper 2 was better. Hopper 3 is connected to LG 65EF9500.....just like the OP. Could be a coincidence but there are few other people experiencing similar issues with hopper 3 connected to OLED TVs from what I read on AVSforum.com. I believe the picture quality issue (pixilation and "saturated" colors) is caused because of the automatic HDR activation on the dish hopper. There are 2 things that I have done/do to improve the quality:


Turned on the deep color setting on the TV for the input connected to the hopper. 
Turn HDR off on the hopper by disconnecting the HDMI cable from the hopper every night before going to bed. This "disables" HDR when the hopper updates and reboots in the night. In the morning, I connect the cable.
Hopefully, the OP can try the above to improve PQ with the new hopper.

BTW, I still have my hopper 2 and may decide to keep it and wait till dish fixes the HDR setting on 3 and allows user control. The new hopper is noticeably better in other aspects but lacks picture quality control. Hopefully, future firmware updates can fix this!


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## ground_pounder

glabrecque said:


> I have an LG 65EF9500 not a generic TV


that LG tv you have is nothing more than a re branded goldstar :nono2:


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## camo

Options2k said:


> I replaced my hopper 2 with hopper 3 yesterday and I am having similar issues as the OP albeit the picture quality is not as bad. However, hopper 2 was better. Hopper 3 is connected to LG 65EF9500.....just like the OP. Could be a coincidence but there are few other people experiencing similar issues with hopper 3 connected to OLED TVs from what I read on AVSforum.com. I believe the picture quality issue (pixilation and "saturated" colors) is caused because of the automatic HDR activation on the dish hopper. There are 2 things that I have done/do to improve the quality:
> 
> 
> Turned on the deep color setting on the TV for the input connected to the hopper.
> Turn HDR off on the hopper by disconnecting the HDMI cable from the hopper every night before going to bed. This "disables" HDR when the hopper updates and reboots in the night. In the morning, I connect the cable.
> Hopefully, the OP can try the above to improve PQ with the new hopper.
> 
> BTW, I still have my hopper 2 and may decide to keep it and wait till dish fixes the HDR setting on 3 and allows user control. The new hopper is noticeably better in other aspects but lacks picture quality control. Hopefully, future firmware updates can fix this!


This is enough information telling me to wait until bugs are out. I hope you have contacted Dish and spoke to a tech not just front desk CSR about this. 
So much for the reports of great picture which I thought may have been over exaggerated anyway. Most likely even a properly running Hopper3 has the same picture as the Hopper2 with non 4K content.


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## lparsons21

camo said:


> This is enough information telling me to wait until bugs are out. I hope you have contacted Dish and spoke to a tech not just front desk CSR about this.
> So much for the reports of great picture which I thought may have been over exaggerated anyway. Most likely even a properly running Hopper3 has the same picture as the Hopper2 with non 4K content.


The reports are not exaggerated, the HD PQ is better with the H3. UNLESS you have one of the pesky HDR OLED sets. The question for them is the problem because of the H3 or because of something in the HDR sets. The answer hasn't been definitively found yet.

So for those that want better PQ and hugely improved performance that don't have one of the pesky TVs that don't seem to like the H3, go ahead an get one. I'm tickled pink with mine and my Sharp 4K TV loves it too! Better SD/HD PQ and 4K, what's not to like.

Sent from my App Runtime for Chrome using Tapatalk


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## Blowgun

I hope the OLED technology of today is better than it was. Years ago I had a OLED display in my phone and it looked great for awhile, but then developed burn-in and became unusable.

How was the PQ comparison between the H2 and H3 performed?


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## Options2k

lparsons21 said:


> The reports are not exaggerated, the HD PQ is better with the H3. UNLESS you have one of the pesky HDR OLED sets. The question for them is the problem because of the H3 or because of something in the HDR sets. The answer hasn't been definitively found yet.
> 
> So for those that want better PQ and hugely improved performance that don't have one of the pesky TVs that don't seem to like the H3, go ahead an get one. I'm tickled pink with mine and my Sharp 4K TV loves it too! Better SD/HD PQ and 4K, what's not to like.
> 
> Sent from my App Runtime for Chrome using Tapatalk


There is nothing wrong with the TV.....See this thread to understand the issue with hopper 3. I am hoping that a firmware update fixes it soon!

BTW, this TV has the best PQ of any other TV that I current own including a Pioneer Kuro plasma and a Panasonic VT50 plasma!


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## weberman

glabrecque said:


> I just had a Hopper 3 system installed the other day to replace my Hopper 2 and noticed that the picture quality is pretty terrible (below DVD quality) compared to my Hopper 2. I have a LG 65EF9500 and also noticed that when I turn the Hopper 3 on it turns on the HDR setting on my tv no matter what the content. I know the Hopper 3 is HDR compatable but there is no content yet so it should only turn on when the movie or show is HDR not all the time. Could that be effecting the picture quality in any way? All my TV settings are correct and the same as it was on the Hopper 2 so I am not sure neither is dish tech support or the tech who installed my system what the issue is but it is pretty hard to watch.


Read Page 28 of the Users Guide.

http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-65EF9500#manuals


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## camo

weberman said:


> Read Page 28 of the Users Guide.
> 
> http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-65EF9500#manuals


What does connecting to a PC graphics card have to do with anything?


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## Jovgov72

I have the same system and the picture quality on the Hopper 3 box is terrible


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