# DirectTV doing the Right Thing



## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

Here is a thread on fatwallet:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=18&threadid=214654

EXISTING DirectTV customers are able to get a DirectTivo for $99.

Dish should wake up.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

It seems that DISH is more interested in getting NEW customers than they are in keeping their CURRENT customers. They still act like there is an "endless pool" of potential customers. They are not worrying about their churn numbers as much as they should.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Bill I have to agree with you here.

Someone needs to wakeup at Dish.


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## platinum (Oct 28, 2002)

I ordered mine yesterday it's a great deal.


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

I guess the proof of lack of concern for churn is demonstrated by not winning the JD Power award again.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Bill R said:


> It seems that DISH is more interested in getting NEW customers than they are in keeping their CURRENT customers. They still act like there is an "endless pool" of potential customers. They are not worrying about their churn numbers as much as they should.


Gee Bill lately we have been agreeing about more and more.

Now E shoiuld do this for the 721 or 522 since they are similiar boxes.

Frankly with the new E fee I hope tey get lots of churn so they wake up.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

$99 for a dual-tuner receiver DVR is much cheaper than some of the upgrade offers for a single-tuner DVR that Dish has been offerring lately. The 721 hasn't even be offerred up on special, and one even questions the future of that product.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

It is a good deal, I wonder if that offer is goof for former DirecTV subs?

I would love to go to DirecTV but as a former sub I need to pay full retail for everything. (argg!)


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Scott,

You still got an old DirecTV receiver laying around? If so activate that and now you are a "current" customer.


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## platinum (Oct 28, 2002)

Scott, wouldn't you be a new customer if you signed up under your wife's name?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Even if Dish did have a $99 offer for the 510 it still may not be good enough for some because of the fact that DirecTivo has better features, and still even if it did, it still may not be good enough in that it is not a dual tuner receiver like the $99 DirecTivo is. 

Dish would have to give this thing away to compete and they would make their money back on the unit over a 5 year period at $60 a year ($5 a month) or consider some of it a loss to keep the subscriber. If Dish does make $4.99 off of the additional outlet fee then it would only take them half the time to make the money back (2 1/2 years) if the subscriber did not deactivate another receiver to add this receiver on replacing a receiver on the account. 

At a $199 pricepoint Dish is making their money back on the receiver in less than a year on the difference if they do make $4.99 off the outlet fee although Charlie stated something about that being a cost to keep the encryption up on the system. Do you really think it costs that much? I thought that cost was figured into the programming price. I wouldnt think it would cost Dish anymore to send down updates to customers whether they had one receiver or two, three, four, etc.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> It is a good deal, I wonder if that offer is goof for former DirecTV subs?
> 
> I would love to go to DirecTV but as a former sub I need to pay full retail for everything. (argg!)


I think we should raise the funds for you to get a D TIVO for a couple months and do a comparison


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## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> It is a good deal, I wonder if that offer is goof for former DirecTV subs?
> 
> I would love to go to DirecTV but as a former sub I need to pay full retail for everything. (argg!)


The offer is legit. I already own 2 DirecTiVos, so I checked this offer on my online account and they would sell me a 3rd for $99 if I wanted it.

I'm sure Directv would accomodate you as well in order to bring you back as a customer. It even includes any necessary installation, so there is no downside in calling them and asking for it.

You KNOW you want one :lol:


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> It is a good deal, I wonder if that offer is good for former DirecTV subs?


Scott,

I would give them a call and tell them you are currently a DISH Network customer and you would like to come back. I'm guessing that they will give you the special deal on the TiVo.

I had an old RCA model (mininum subscription) and they did offer me one. If you get one for $99, the "catch" is that you have to subscribe to the Total Choice (or higher level) package for at least a year.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Imagine Scott a direct sub???

Kinda like Dan C a direct sub, and many others....


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

platinum said:


> Scott, wouldn't you be a new customer if you signed up under your wife's name?


 I was thinking about doing that very thing for the new HDTV PVR deals when they come out later this year or 1qtr next year. The problem is that my wife is Michele and I'm Michael.. My guess is that the would figure it out fairly quickly.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Imagine Scott a direct sub???
> 
> Kinda like Dan C a direct sub, and many others....


All companies have their ups and downs... I've spoken to some people who work with this every day. Many of them say that Charlie lost a year with the whole DirecTV buyout attempt and it's going to take him time to get Dish back to where he wants it. With the Loral offer, i'm not sure if he's ready to go back to 'just' being Dish CEO. It would be alright if he could find a COO or President who's focus was to beat the competition at every price point and with every product. Then alot of the complaners would have a harder time trying to find things to ***** about.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Agreed, E has lost its focus. Getting into the satellite business will be another distraction.

Frankly I believe Charlie has turned over much of his decision making to soime probably well intended but poor managers. First we have the failed merger. IF charlie had agreed at the begining to divest itself of some things that would of likely been approved. like selling 61.5 to rainbow, wholesaling programming to phone and other companies, and they could of still done the superdish and regained and exceeded the original bandwidth. Charlie got greedy and wanted it ALL. And got nothing. 

Then we had a obviously distracted charlie for a long time, looked depressed if you ask me. E sadly had NO BACKUP PLAN It should of been in place from the begining just in case the merger fell thru.

NOW I think most posters would agree E has changed. Like the ill thought out per box DVR fee. Totally uncompetive with D. Charlie 4 years ago would of NEVER tried that!

If I had stock in E I would be concerned............


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I do not see how you can say E* is down. Yeah it is ragged on a lot lately on the board, but if you look up from the computer and see what is really happening, E* looks stronger than ever:

1. Subscribers are growing
2. Satellite Capacity is increasing (64 new CONUS and 11 Wing transponders in a year, almost doubling capacity), exceeding the merger plans.
3. New way to increase the average bill and still look competitive (VOD/DVR fee)
4. New HDTV (well soon, but do you really think the average person knows anything different)
5. New LIL markets being added at a good pace, another spot beam satellite ordered (probably will turn all the LIL on CONUS 110 to spot, and add even more markets). They could have LIL to all markets around the same time they would have had with the merger... Just 15 billion or so less money.
6. They continue to make money and have been paying down debt.
7. The stock has been on a steady rise for a year.

Echostar looks more aggressive than ever... They have just taken the gloves off and revealed the fact that yes they are a corporation and are going to extract every $$ out of their customer's hands that they can. But, the average customer has no idea that anything changed and thinks Dish is the best thing since sliced bread. The *VAST* majority of Dish customers have no problems with their PVRs (most think they messed up if anything goes wrong) and love them.

What more could you realistlically want from E* as an investor? Same can be said about most consumers. They deliver LIL to most the country now, that is all consumers really care about LIL and price. E* is very competative on both issues.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I agree, Dish is doing quite well when you compare it to Directv. Directv has never made money or profit. DISH has done so and continues to make a profit. 

In rural areas Dish out numbers Directv and Pegasus who distributes them. I just visited a small area of Mena , Arkansas . They were blanketed in Dish sat dishes. Hell they were the main cable company. There were at least 3 dealerships on the same highway . On their telephone book a big add for Dish Network. In that area, they live in the foothills of the Queen Wilimena mountain and the Quachita forest and there is no ota reception but maybe CBS from Fort Smith. 

I think Charlie is doing what is best for the company with the fees. I don't like them but then again I'm looking at this from a customer stance, not a corporate one. As far as the future of the company , he is doing pretty well with the new lease deals on satellites and will have more capacity for hdtv and more locals. I think in the next two years we will see All Locals done for the entire country. I realize the plan keeps changing as far as what you will need for hdtv and the kind of dish etc. but this is still the early days of a new industry with hdtv. 
People who get in on new technology sometimes get burnt when things change. Anybody remember the "betamax vcr"? The laser disc players? The commodore computers? 

People love to rag on Dish over and over and I admit that with Dish you have to pay more to upgrade as an existing customer when you compare it to what Directv does for theirs. Dish needs to come up with a cheaper way for their current customers to do an upgrade. But all and all I love the service they provide.

I have been a customer since leaving Primestar in 96 . The guides are easy to manuver with no clutter of logos and other b.s. like with the Directv receivers I have. Their dvr service is fine and I really don't need Tivo doing the searching for me. I have a stand aloneTivo which I really don't like as well as my 721 and 508s. Their csrs are for the most friendly and helpful . Their engineering department is very proffessional and will work with you to fix any picture quality problems with locals . I have even talked to them on the phone when they called to resolve any problems with my locals in Houston and now in Little Rock. I only had one real complaint with them over the years and that was with the Dishplayer receivers. I had to rma at least 3 of them and in the end I took a basic 301 just to get out of the problems. 

I don't know why people like to rag on old Charlie as much as they do. He for the most part runs a profitable company, which listens to it's customers and trys to provide a service at the cheapest price on the market, when you compare it to Directv and cable. How many ceos of companies you know who actually sit down once a month and discuss their new ideas and their direction with you? No I don't always agree with Charlie and yes he can be onery when it comes to getting channels we want at a cheaper price, but come on, that is how you keep the price down for all subs . I would have hated to have to pay for all the subs who wanted the NFL games like Directv , if he had had to pay the price they were asking. 

I think instead of giving him no credit for the operation of Dish people ought to be buying stock in the company . The future of Dish looks awful bright to me. :icon_cool


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

Mike D-CO5,

Best post I've read about Dish Network in weeks here if not months.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Thank you , I try to put in some positive facts in occassionaly to balance out all the negative criticism .


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Dish needs to come up with a cheaper way for their current customers to do an upgrade.


I think the solution for this is inherent in what I consider to be the solution for a bigger problem. Dish likes to do what I call channel whoring. They sell direct, have independent dealers, and sell through Sears, Radio Shack, and are attempting to get the big guys like Best Buy and Circuit City. Everyone is targeting the same customer, and that's a bad business practice.

The solution to channel whoring is to have different products and different promotions for the different channels. In effect target your different channel outlets to different customer segments.

It would have to be a big big focus, with many drastic changes associated with it. But It may be the solution for a great many problems.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

> I agree, Dish is doing quite well when you compare it to Directv. Directv has never made money or profit. DISH has done so and continues to make a profit.


This continues to ignore the fact that the DirecTV service in the United States does continue to make a profit, while DirecTV Latin America and other Hughes subsidiaries account for Hughes losses.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Greg Bimson said:


> This continues to ignore the fact that the DirecTV service in the United States does continue to make a profit, while DirecTV Latin America and other Hughes subsidiaries account for Hughes losses.


 I thought Directv Latin America went bankrupt this year? I remember seeing something about this and I don't think the two operations are included in the same corporate profit margin.

Can someone clarify if this is so and if Directv in America has ever made a profit? I would be interested in learning this.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I thought Directv Latin America went bankrupt this year? I remember seeing something about this and I don't think the two operations are included in the same corporate profit margin.
> 
> Can someone clarify if this is so and if Directv in America has ever made a profit? I would be interested in learning this.


Well not exactly profitable because they made the money with the $600million from Echostar. Note the EBITDA was $594million would have been a 6million loss without the $600mil from E* and the $158 million operating profit would have been a $442 million dollar loss. Now of course if DirecTV would not have been all in a merger quagmire with Echostar for the year they probably could have taken steps to be more profitable.



> United States. Revenues for DIRECTV U.S. grew to $6,445 million in 2002, a 16% increase over 2001 revenues of $5,552 million. The increase in revenues resulted primarily from an increased number of DIRECTV subscribers and an increase in ARPU. As of December 31, 2002, DIRECTV had approximately 11.2 million subscribers compared to about 10.3 million subscribers as of December 31, 2001. Excluding subscribers in the National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative ("NRTC") territories, DIRECTV owned and operated subscribers totaled 9.5 million and 8.4 million at December 31, 2002 and 2001, respectively. DIRECTV added 1.1 million net new owned and operated subscribers in 2002, compared to 1.2 million net new owned and operated subscribers in 2001. ARPU was $59.80 and $58.70 for the years ended December 31, 2002 and 2001, respectively. The increased ARPU was driven primarily from broader local channel offerings, higher revenues from seasonal and live sporting events and other subscriber revenues, such as revenues from an increased number of subscribers with multiple set-top boxes, partially offset by lower subscriber pay-per-view purchases.
> 
> EBITDA was $564 million in 2002 compared to $160 million in 2001. The operating profit in 2002 for the DIRECTV U.S. businesses was $158 million compared to an operating loss of $279 million in 2001. The change in EBITDA was primarily attributable to the additional profit resulting from the higher revenues discussed above, lower total subscriber acquisition costs and a $48 million charge primarily related to severance costs recorded in 2001. These improvements were partially offset by higher subscriber service expenses and the $56 million expense associated with the settlement with GECC. The change in operating loss was due to the increased EBITDA and lower amortization expense of $124 million that resulted from the adoption of SFAS No. 142, which was partially offset by a $91
> million increase in depreciation expense related to the addition of property and satellites.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Thanks for the clarification on my question.

So without the 600 million from Echostar they would have had a operating loss this last year like in 2001? So they only made a profit due to the merger not being approved and Charlies penalty $$ ? So this year will tell if they really make a profit or not, unless they include this year as another buyout year full of confusion ,which would justify another profit loss.

Maybe by next year when Rupert gets total control of Directv he will turn this company into a constant money maker. This is good for all sat customers so that competition will fourish and hopefully lead to lower prices and technology. Now if they would only team together to fight cable ,which is the real competition for both of them. :sure:


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## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

Well, I just bought an HDTV (my 5.6 yr old Sony XBR CRT Died), and I now feel the need for HDTV, but the need for PVR is much greater.

So, I've decided that I'll switch to DirectTV if they offer a HDPVR in a similarly priced deal this year or next, as we all know it will cost us $1000 for a Dish PVR. I figure I can sell my 508 and 721 for about the price I paid for them.

$1000 for a TUNER/PVR is ridiculous. I've subscriber since '96, but I refuse to pay that price for my receiver AND pay fees for the unit too.


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