# Sirius 6000-6099



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Following a tip from another forum ...

The downloadable channel card on dishnetwork.com now lists (as new) the Sirius channels as being 6000-6099 (lower right corner).

"Additional Channels" on the card are:
Audio Music Channels 923-981
DISH On Demand Pay-Per-View 455-539
Local Channels 7000-7663, 8000-9392
Public Interest Networks 9400-9418
Regional Sports Networks 412-437
NEW!> Sirius Radio 6000-6099

Looks like promotions is ready for May 20th! Just three more weeks.

JL


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Cool Info.. thanks for letting us know! ---------> 6000s channel range it is then!


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

cool find

I don't know why they got specific as to locals being 7000-7663, 8000-9392

leaving out one market they just added as well as the others they plan to add, it should just say locals: 7000-9399


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## Sparkman87 (Apr 28, 2002)

Don't mean to be a jerk about it, but how can people keep misspelling SIRIUS. It is spelled correctly on the DISH website, what's so hard about copying it correctly here?


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## mindwarp (May 19, 2003)

On what bird would they be available?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mindwarp said:


> On what bird would they be available?


There is one channel testing on 119º. The current audio channels are on 119º. Since they are planning on including Sirius with AT120, and AT120 is all 119º, I'd make the educated guess that it's going to 119º.

Then again, new subs have been getting Dish500 for years - there is no absolute reason not to put them on 110º - especially if it exposes viewers to more PPV options as well as the Sirius channels.

The only for sure on location is that it won't be on the wings.

JL


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## DWS44 (Apr 15, 2004)

Sparkman87 said:


> Don't mean to be a jerk about it, but how can people keep misspelling SIRIUS. It is spelled correctly on the DISH website, what's so hard about copying it correctly here?


:lol: I was wondering if anyone was keeping a tally of the number of different ways it's been misspelled since the subject first came up!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Who really cares how it spelled 

It's all good  .. Quallity .. that's what counts..

P.S. Besides.. this is not a "Spelling Bee" forum.. but a Sat. TV one... and one doesn't even need to know how to read or/and write .. to watch some Tube


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

It is obvious that many people on this forum do not know how to read and write. If the shoe fits, wear it.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Correct spelling and grammer are all we have to make judgements on people. I tend to listen to those who express themselves properly over those that aren't as careful on this.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

A problem comes up if someone wants to do a search, if someone does a search by title for Sirius, this thread and a few others wouldn't come up.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

scooper said:


> Correct spelling and grammer are all we have to make judgements on people. I tend to listen to those who express themselves properly over those that aren't as careful on this.


Don't always "judge the Book by it's Cover"


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> A problem comes up if someone wants to do a search, if someone does a search by title for Sirius, this thread and a few others wouldn't come up.


And you have the power to fix that. 

I wish Dish was adding XM ... it's easier to spell. :grin:

Two other notes on the topic, not the spelling:
1) See that the audio channels remain on the card -- not sure who will get them, but they apparently WILL remain available to at least some customers.
2) The primary announcement is the channel numbers. E* has been playing with two streams sharing the same channel numbers ... with the guess being some subs would one channel and other subs would get another. That point is moot for Sirius (Although it might be useful for East/West only video feeds so E* doesn't have to waste two numbers.)

May 20th to all AT120 or above ... watching the skies for changes. 

JL


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

Has anyone seen an exact list of which Sirius channels we will get? I hope we get BBC World Service along with the music, but I doubt it. Looks like from the card we will still have Musak.


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

We're getting the music channels and maybe a couple of talk channels. That'd be the left and right chats. Have you ever wondered why we don't have moderate channels?


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Because moderation is passe. Extremism sells soap. People are idiots, and require the simplicity of extremist thought. 

Moderate thought requires a rational examination of the facts, and an independent judgment based upon that examination. The need for instant TV news soundbites, and the limited ability of most people to absorb and examine facts, is why extremism is so prevalent on TV, and in life, today.


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

scooper said:


> Correct spelling and grammer are all we have to make judgements on people. I tend to listen to those who express themselves properly over those that aren't as careful on this.


So how much would you listen to yourself if you found out that the word is grammar not grammer?


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## Guest (May 3, 2004)

garypen said:


> Because moderation is passe. Extremism sells soap. People are idiots, and require the simplicity of extremist thought.
> 
> Moderate thought requires a rational examination of the facts, and an independent judgment based upon that examination. The need for instant TV news soundbites, and the limited ability of most people to absorb and examine facts, is why extremism is so prevalent on TV, and in life, today.


actually to be a moderate is very hard..you need to be on both sides of an issue at the sametime and never ever take a stand on anything controversial..kinda like most politicians


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

wrate said:


> So how much would you listen to yourself if you found out that the word is grammar not grammer?


I screwed up 

At least - it wasn't in some foreign language looking like some of the kids butcher things...


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

scooper said:


> Correct spelling and grammer are all we have to make judgements on people. I tend to listen to those who express themselves properly over those that aren't as careful on this.


Check your spelling of "grammer"


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

obrienaj - it was already mentioned above: "grammar" vs. "grammer" (couple of posts before yours)

scooper - lol - BTW - i saw that too earlier.. actually right after you posted...
But i never bother that much with spelling mistakes.. as i am sure i make many myself on occasion...
So i never even said anything to you about it 

Nobody's perfect Kids.. 
hehe - this is a Dish forum here.. so lets speak Sats. and ease up on spelling a bit..
Just suggest to try and make 'em posts a bit more legible.. that's all


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## dswallow (Mar 31, 2003)

scooper said:


> Correct spelling and grammer are all we have to make judgements on people. I tend to listen to those who express themselves properly over those that aren't as careful on this.


gramm*e*r?


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

My local building inspector wouldn't sign off my hot tub installation because I didn't have a "GFCI recepticle" between 5 and 10 feet of the tub. I didn't even want an outlet on the deck. The tub had the required GFCI and quick disconnect but he also wanted the "recepticle". I felt like marking up his spelling of receptacle just to get even. But, I bit my tongue or should I say held my pen at least until I get passed the inspection. Here on the forum I can cut a lot of slack for spelling as I often don't proofread and sometimes my finnnngers get going faster than my brain.

..Doyle


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

obrienaj said:


> Check your spelling of "grammer"


Thats funny :lol:


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## homeskillet (Feb 3, 2004)

So E* is saying the Sirius Music Channels will be 6000-6099... doing my old math, that would e 99 Channels set aside. We're talking about 62 channels of music & talk... think anything else might be coming down the pipe?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

They actually have about 60 music channels and 40 talk/news/sports channels. If they did them all (which I don't think they will) it would pretty much fill up the alotted 100 channels.


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

homeskillet said:


> So E* is saying the Sirius Music Channels will be 6000-6099... doing my old math, that would e 99 Channels set aside. We're talking about 62 channels of music & talk... think anything else might be coming down the pipe?


I see you were as good in math class as I was.  6000-6099 actually is 100 channels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

homeskillet said:


> So E* is saying the Sirius Music Channels will be 6000-6099... doing my old math, that would e 99 Channels set aside. We're talking about 62 channels of music & talk... think anything else might be coming down the pipe?


The key is that they want the same channel numbers on E* as on Sirius.
Since 1-99 are used on E*'s system, they are putting them in the 6000 range.

So expect:
6001 SIRIUS HITS 1 // Top 40 Hits
6002 STARLITE // Lite Pop
6003 SIRIUS LOVE // Love Songs
6004 MOVIN' EASY // Easy Listening
6005 SIRIUS GOLD // The '50s
6006 '6Os VIBRATIONS // The '60s
6007 TOTALLY '70s // The '70s
6008 BIG '80s // The '80s
6009 THE PULSE // The '90s & Now
6010 THE BRIDGE // Mellow Rock
6011 KIDS STUFF // Kids
6012 SPIRIT // Christian Hits
6014 CLASSIC VINYL // Early Classic Rock
6015 CLASSIC REWIND // Later Classic Rock
6016 THE VAULT // Deeper Classic Rock
6017 JAM_ON // Jam Bands
6018 THE SPECTRUM // Adult Album Alternative
6019 BUZZSAW // Classic Hard Rock
6020 OCTANE // Pure Rock
6021 ALT NATION // Alternative Rock
6022 FIRST WAVE // Classic Alternative
6023 HAIR NATION // '80s Hair Bands
6024 SIRIUS DISORDER // Eclectic/Free Form
6026 LEFT OF CENTER // New/College Rock
6027 HARD ATTACK // Heavy Metal
6028 FACTION // Hard Rock, Hip-Hop, Punk Mix
6029 SIRIUS BLUES // Blues
6030 REGGAE RHYTHMS // Reggae
6031 NEW COUNTRY // Today's Country Hits
6032 PRIME COUNTRY // '80s & '90s Country Hits
6035 THE ROADHOUSE // Classic Country
6036 THE BORDER // Alternative Country
6037 BLUEGRASS // Bluegrass
6038 FOLK TOWN // Folk
6040 HIP-HOP NATION // New, Raw & Uncut Hip-Hop
6042 WAX // Mixes, Remixes, Freestyles
6043 BACK SPIN // Old Skool Rap
6044 STREET BEAT // New Hip-Hop Hits
6050 HOT JAMZ // Hip-Hop and R&B Hits
6051 HEART & SOUL // R&B Hits
6052 SLOW JAMZ // Soul Ballads
6053 SOUL REVUE // Classic Soul & Motown
6054 PRAISE // Gospel
6062 REMIX // Non-Stop Club Mix
6063 PLANET DANCE // Mainstream Dance
6064 CHILL // Smooth Electronic
6066 THE BEAT // Dance Hits
6068 THE STROBE // Disco
6070 PLANET JAZZ // Contemporary Jazz
6071 JAZZ CAFÉ // Smooth Jazz
6072 PURE JAZZ // Classic Jazz
6073 SWING STREET // Swing
6075 STANDARD TIME // Standards
6077 BROADWAY'S BEST // Broadway Show Music
6080 SYMPHONY HALL // Symphonic & Chamber Music
6085 CLASSICAL VOICES // Classical Voices
6086 SIRIUS POPS // Classical Pops
6090 UNIVERSO LATINO // Latin Pop Mix
6091 MEXICANA // Mexicana
6092 TROPICAL // Caribbean Dance Music
6099 HORIZONS // World Music

JL


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

homeskillet said:


> So E* is saying the Sirius Music Channels will be 6000-6099... doing my old math, that would e 99 Channels set aside. We're talking about 62 channels of music & talk... think anything else might be coming down the pipe?


Who knows.. but if 99 posslible ones.. and only 62 are used.. then it will surely be some Holes in between


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

Does Dish have the bandwidth needed for this many audio channels on 119W? I hope they are not planning to use 34kbps streams as they do on the Internet service. I mean, it is OKay for the computer speakers but not for a real stereo.


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

If they'd get rid of those stupid shopping channels, there would be plenty enough bandwidth. I'd even pay a couple of bucks more a month to see them go.
It would not surprise me though if we get a more compressed version of these audio channels. 1) It would make them fit easier onto the satellites and 2) the degradation would bother someone who liked them enough to go out to get the full service. Remember the goal is to sell Sirius.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

6001-6086 with a few missing are now in the System. Not available, yet.

6001 has content(FTA).


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

Just curious, how can you guys tell they are "in the system"? They show up in the EPG?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

ypsiguy said:


> Just curious, how can you guys tell they are "in the system"? They show up in the EPG?


We scan the system tables. They are in the EPG stream as well.


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## james39 (Dec 10, 2003)

possibly someone who works at dish? or maybe they have FTA receivers, which will show the entire guide. Either way, if a new channel exists on the satellite, someone's gonna post.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

james39 said:


> possibly someone who works at dish? or maybe they have FTA receivers, which will show the entire guide. Either way, if a new channel exists on the satellite, someone's gonna post.


Ill take "Option B" for $200, alex


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

JohnH said:


> We scan the system tables. They are in the EPG stream as well.


Can you tell which bird and transponder they are transmitted on?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

ypsiguy said:


> Can you tell which bird and transponder they are transmitted on?


Yes. They are on 119. Several Tps involved.


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

Dang, E* 7's getting pretty full. I hope it doesn't degrade picture quality.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Yuppers.. 6001-6086..just as John said!

Thanks John.. now that they are FTA.. How do they sound to you John, your ear is more likely is more of an expert then mine 
Does it sound good, bad, so-so, stereo, great.. or.. etc?

Thanks again.. for the info..

justalurker.. so far you have it correct right up to channel 6086 i think.. Other 4 are not there yet..


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

homeskillet said:


> think anything else might be coming down the pipe?


It's "down the _pike_".


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

They might be testing it or something... the sound is reported to going / coming back.. going/coming back.. i think as we speak - it's gone..

John - what sounds better you think - this Sirius or DirecTV's Music choice?
(from what's heard so far.. unless it depends on many factors.. - maybe Music choce sounds more sharper.. Unless they ll fine tune the Sirius music before it's launched..)

There..hehe - it's reported.. the sound is Back on!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Darkman said:


> justalurker.. so far you have it correct right up to channel 6086 i think.. Other 4 are not there yet..


Interesting ... I just transcribed the Sirius music list.

I wonder if they will put the Spanish channels elsewhere or if this is just temporarily missing.

JL


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

John, can you tell the size of the sirius streams (in Kbps)? That should tell us how good the sound is. Right? Music Choice on DTV used to sound great, lately (last year or so) though, they must have narrowed the streams because the really high tones sounded a bit distorted. IMHO


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

hehe - hehe - Hip hop ones are unsensored ..for now anyhow 

as to Spanish ones - there is a test going on (from before) on 6500 - Fiesta mirrored for now.. i bet they might have some Sirius plans there too.. just as they did with tests at 6000s


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Rap is unsensored also....


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## james39 (Dec 10, 2003)

Dang, I wants an FTA receiver now so I can listen to sirius.. these guys go onto AT120 on May 20th? I can't wait!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Dang, I wants an FTA receiver now so I can listen to sirius.. these guys go onto AT120 on May 20th? I can't wait!


It would be cheaper to buy a Sirius system. And, for another $150 you could have 15 months worth of music in the house and the car.... Oh, by the way, I have the Audiovox systems in stock.


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## busboy789 (Oct 25, 2003)

what is a FTA receiver?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

busboy789 said:


> what is a FTA receiver?


"Free to Air" ... normally used for receiving programs *offered* unscrambled on Ku and C band satellites. Often used to view or hear unscrambled feeds that are not "offered" unscrambled.. to the public.

BTW: There are no Sirius channels missing from my previous list, 6001 through 6086, on E*'s service table. All are in engeneering and hidden. All currently have the title "SIRI".

There are 7 on TP4, 4 on TP12, 7 on TP13, 8 on TP17, 16 on TP18, and 15 on TP21. If I were E*, I'd put the four "Latin & World" channels on 110 so that Dish Latino customers could get them on a Dish300.

So far no sign of any talk channels. Stay tuned, today was the first sign of music!

JL


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

james39 said:


> Dang, I wants an FTA receiver now so I can listen to sirius.. these guys go onto AT120 on May 20th? I can't wait!


Don't think it's guaranteed that the channels would stay FTA for long... nobody knows.. they can scramble those.. anytime..
Unless they are Audio only maybe.. and stand a better chance of being FTA for now..

Justalurker.. i noted it already (few posts above yours somewhere).. - that your list was correct .. all the way up till 6086


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Darkman said:


> Justalurker.. i noted it already (few posts above yours somewhere).. - that your list was correct .. all the way up till 6086


You said you thought, but I wasn't trying to post a correction - just a clarification that I had checked and all 57 channels were there.

I'm looking forward to 'seeing' the non-music channels, once launched. It is interesting to see these changes on a Tuesday! (And according to the tables, they are scrambled, hidden and "in engineering". Then again, the Muzak channels are marked scrambled in the tables  )

Enough said: Coming May 20th!

JL


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I'm PISSED!!!!! Well, at least deeply disappointed, anyway. Where are the world beat audio channels! They stop at channel 6086 or the classical section. Where the HELL are Universo Latino, Mexicana, Tropical Caribbean Dance Music and Horizons World Music ????

The spanish audio channels that Dish has on AT120 BLOW CHUNKS! One "Fiesta Mexicana" plays music that generally makes you feel like you want to put a bullit in your brain. And Latino POP playes songs that have never been on a top 100 chart in any country and thus NOT pop!

I was looking forward to some real carribean and latin flavor (something not easy to find in this part of the US)


AND BTW, two other conspicuously missing channels:

Kids Stuff and Reggae Rhythms.

See ya
Tony


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

they got some kind of Reggae there Tony..

as to spanish ones. maybe they will add some on yet.. i think so anyhow.. but will uplink them a bit later.. for example on Wednsday instead of Tuesday...
As i said above.. there is something Spanish going on at 6500.. like some spanish test.. so maybe they are cooking something with a spanish flavor there? 
Like it was a test channel at early 6000s.. and now it's replaced with all those channels

BTW Tony .. I like some of DirecTV's Music Choice Spanish music channels there..
Expecially that ..hmm something like "Salsa de Merengue" one (hehe - or something like that).. the music on it - Sounds good .. i like this type


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Tony:

6030 REGGAE RHYTHMS // Reggae

[Edit]

Tony:

6011 KIDS STUFF // Kids 


[Edit #2]

Tony those are there for sure.. (it's been reported to me.. ) .. Not available to Mere Mortals as of yet of course.. but uplinked ..100%

6011 SIRI Kids Stuff - Kids Music & More - 119 sat, tp 12
6030 SIRI Reggae Rhythms - Reggae Music - 119 sat, tp 13

The proper content is reporting to be playing as well.. matching the above mentioned channels' Info


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## newsub (Aug 5, 2003)

Darkman said:


> Tonym
> 
> The proper content is reporting to be playing as well.. matching the above mentioned channels' Info


What does the screen look like? Does it look like the muzak screen did, or is it like the music choice screen with album art and info and the like? Oh and I found a FTA receiver on ebay for $125.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Darkman,

Thanks. Looks like I misread the initial information sent me. They were listed.

See ya
Tony


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Tony you didn't list Kids like others on the chart..
How about somewhat more info:

Instead of:
"Kids Stuff Kids" 

to maybe have what it is on Info screen:
"Kids Stuff Kids Music & More" or "Kids Stuff Kids & More" ...at the least


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TNGTony said:


> Where are the world beat audio channels! They stop at channel 6086 or the classical section. Where the HELL are Universo Latino, Mexicana, Tropical Caribbean Dance Music and Horizons World Music ????


I don't believe they are done setting this up yet. Have patience!

There are not any talk channels yet either ... as Johnny used to say ... 
*More to Come ...*

JL


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

Are there DJ's or any type of voice/overs between songs on the music channels?


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I hope they saved room for Bingo Radio. 

And yes there are Stream Jockeys.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

So how is this an improvement over what we have now???? Who the hell wants to now hear DJ's on a music channel (just like radio) ?


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

The DJs give you the impression that your not just listening to CDs. The big advantage is that you don't hear commercials at a rate of 20 minutes per hour.

Speaking of commercials, if you live in an area where John Elway owns car dealerships, have you heard enough of that damn Ghostbusters music. Everyday, 20 times a day for three years is ENOUGH Mr. Elway.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

What's wrong with "just listening to CDs" ? Isn't that the whole idea? I understand the huge advantage when compared to FM radio with their constant commercials and DJ's blaring between songs, but how is this an improvement compared to all the music channels that we have NOW on Dish without ANY DJs?
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I just don't see what an improvement this is?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

6001 has a short logo between songs.

BTW: That is the only channel I have found which is FTA.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Anthony, the choice of music may be the improvement.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

I hope that that will outweigh the annoyance of whatever comes up between songs.

I don't know how many of you guys used the music channels before this Sirius announcement, but I've it hooked up to my whole house audio system for a few years (music in every room) and have always enjoyed the fact that it was ONLY music. Those who are just now checking it out, compared to radio it's a huge improvement. I just know it's going to bother me.

I'm also very leary of whenever Charley makes an "improvement" to Dishnetwork. It's usually just an improvement to his wallet.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

If it is a improvement to his wallet, it will likely be because someone likes it.

Tune to the old channels. They are not supposed to go away.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

Why would he keep the old music channels once Sirius is up and running?


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Well I heerd it both ways. Why would he drop them? I am just asking.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

Bandwidth!!!


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Well, many of them will likely have to remain to fill the Muzak Commercial distribution.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Again did we ever get an answer?


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

I'll be perfectly happy if they do. I just can't imagine that Charley would give us both without getting something in return ($$$ from us).


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

Anthony Falcone said:


> I'll be perfectly happy if they do. I just can't imagine that Charley would give us both without getting something in return ($$$ from us).


We could a have few scenanios here.

First, maybe Sirius is paying Charley to put their channels up. What would Sirius gain? Simply the chance to get more people to listen to their service, and maybe, order it up for their cars. That's a gain for them

Second, Charley gives it away. What does Charley gain? He stands to gain a competitive edge by offering a service that DirecTV or cable doesn't.

Overall, it would be a loss leader for both services to expand subscriptions. Will it work? I bet it does. These folks aren't stupid, well maybe Charley. Then again, Charley is a billionaire and he didn't get that way being stupid.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Anthony Falcone said:


> Are there DJ's or any type of voice/overs between songs on the music channels?


On the rock stations, they are even more annoying than radio dj's. They have that loud, obnoxious "radio" way of talking, like Jimmy Fallons' DJ character on SNL. "WE'RE BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!"


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

Dish had a competetive edge when Charley introduced DVR's without a monthly fee. Now, not only does he charge a fee, but he charges on EACH receiver ( unless you subscribe to Everything Pak).


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I other words we don't know if the old cahnnelsare staying but we will find out in a few weeks. I can live with that.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

garypen said:


> On the rock stations, they are even more annoying than radio dj's. They have that loud, obnoxious "radio" way of talking, like Jimmy Fallons' DJ character on SNL. "WE'RE BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!"


Looks like we're the only ones bothered by this.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

> Looks like we're the only ones bothered by this.


Sometimes I think if Charlie offered sh*t on a stick, and sticks were something that was kind of cool, Dish lovers would either ignore the sh*t altogether, or actually praise the sh*t because they got the stick for free.

For me, I definitely like the Sirius "stick". But, the DJ "sh*t" stinks it up a bit.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I did not receive my free stick. I will be writing to [email protected]. Is the stick free for life or just for 36 months? Can I upgrade the stick to a better one or will that only be available to new subs? If my free stick breaks will I get a new one or just a refurbished one? Does the stick have points at both ends like the DirecTV stick? Do I need any additional equipment to use the stick? What if I currently subscribe to a package that comes with a free stick (like Americas Top 180 plus a stick) will I get a credit on my bill equal to the value of the stick? Will there be channel devoted to how to use the stick? Will it be on 110 or 119? Will Ashley be on the channel? I have a vacation home can I take my stick with me for the summer? Will the stick be sent to my billing address or the service address? What if my Homeowner's Association prohibits sticks? Does the stick need to be connected to a phone line? Will those wireless phone jacks work with the stick? Why doesnt DISH buy Tivo-- they have much better stick software? Can I use my stick to point at 110 and 119 at the same time? If I live in a rural area will I need a larger stick? I think that Comcast will be giving out better sticks so I may go to cable.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Channels 6090, 6091, 6092 and 6099 have been added to the Sirius block.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Bobby94928 said:


> We could a have few scenanios here.
> 
> First, maybe Sirius is paying Charley to put their channels up. What would Sirius gain? Simply the chance to get more people to listen to their service, and maybe, order it up for their cars. That's a gain for them
> 
> ...


But how long before d* and xm team up


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Anthony Falcone said:


> Dish had a competetive edge when Charley introduced DVR's without a monthly fee. Now, not only does he charge a fee, but he charges on EACH receiver ( unless you subscribe to Everything Pak).


yes but he gives them away no one else does so you could pay 99 for tivo and still pay monthly but i know replays or only 149 now and they were free of fees maybe still are


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Geronimo said:


> I other words we don't know if the old cahnnelsare staying but we will find out in a few weeks. I can live with that.


The old channels ARE staying. We know that for sure. Muzak has a contract to have those on E*'s satellite at 119º to serve as their distribution -- and they are on the Program Guide PDF. What isn't known is who will get them.

Sirius Music is coming May 20th to everyone on AT120 or above. We know that for sure. Charlie said it on the last Charlie Chat. And according to the press release earlier this year they are being uplinked as part of a deal with Sirius to sell receivers. Hear it on E*, subscribe if you want to take it with you. THAT'S where Charlie makes his $$$.

OK?

BTW: JohnH - I also can only get 6001 FTA at the moment - the rest are showing the proper EPG info matching the expected channels, but no audio on my FTA receiver.

JL


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JohnH said:


> Channels 6090, 6091, 6092 and 6099 have been added to the Sirius block.


And TNGTony can rejoice!!! 
BTW - are they on 119º or 110º (or should I check when I get home)?

BTW2 for others worrying about bandwidth:
At this moment the 61 Sirius channels are up, and well over 51 Muzak channels (some not available to E* subscribers). Plus all of the regular channels on 119º. It all fits TODAY!

JL


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

justalurker said:


> And TNGTony can rejoice!!!
> BTW - are they on 119º or 110º (or should I check when I get home)?
> 
> JL


119 Tp 21


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

kwajr said:


> yes but he gives them away no one else does so you could pay 99 for tivo and still pay monthly but i know replays or only 149 now and they were free of fees maybe still are


He didn't give me my DVR, I had to pay for it and it can't even be compared to Tivo as it is. His big selling point when he started the DVR series was that it carried no monthly fee. Do you think a glorified VCR (with plenty of bugs no less ) that you own outright, should carry a $5 fee per month per receiver?

On Topic: It will be good having both Muzak & Sirius to choose from.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Is Muzak the mono "Dish Music" channels, or the "CD Audio" channels? I never cared for the mono channels. 

So, will AT120 and above be getting Sirius AND CD Audio, with AT180 and above getting Sirius AND CD Audio AND Muzak?


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

garypen said:


> So, will AT120 and above be getting Sirius AND CD Audio, with AT180 and above getting Sirius AND CD Audio AND Muzak?


yep and yep


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

justalurker said:


> BTW2 for others worrying about bandwidth:
> At this moment the 61 Sirius channels are up, and well over 51 Muzak channels (some not available to E* subscribers). Plus all of the regular channels on 119º. It all fits TODAY!
> 
> JL


yep. 9 video & 14 or 15 audio on a TP

TP20 had 9 & 14 before they added Sirius (none went there)

so it was possible.....crazy, yet possible


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TonyM said:


> yep. 9 video & 14 or 15 audio on a TP
> 
> TP20 had 9 & 14 before they added Sirius (none went there)
> 
> so it was possible.....crazy, yet possible


I have a scoring system for transponder based on the capacity of 12 SD video signals. Audio signals are calculated at 1/8th of a SD (since on SkyAngel a full transponder is 10 SD and 16 Audios). The mono-Muzak are probably smaller than 1/8th, but I'll give them a full 1/8th share along with Stereo "CD" and now Sirius channels. I give PPV and movie channels a score of 1.25 ... just a little more bandwidth to handle DD and alternate audio feeds.

Take a transponder that has 37 channels. Yes, there are a couple on 119º.

Eliminate the channels that are mirrors (such as the 8xx mirrors in the Dish Latino packages) and shopping/BTV channels. Also the NFL/NBA/MLB package channels that are only mirrors of RSNs. Calculate the score based on a real count of video and audio feeds. *ONE* transponder is over the score of 12. (It has 12 video and 1 audio.) Most of them are still hovering near "11".

PLUS: Don't forget that TVGuide and TVGames Interactive are due to be added after the deal with Gemstar. I don't want to declare 119º full, there is still more to come.

BTW: It seems to be a systemwide standard to give channels 1/12 of a transponder. Locals and national channels. The only ones that seem to get more bandwidth are the movie channels and PPV movies.

JL


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

E* 7 isn't probably completely full yet, but it is certainly closer. E* needs a new bird at 114.5 for HD and extra bandwidth. Too bad the FCC wouldn't grant it, especially since they (and Congress) want a one-dish solution.

On topic: It will be nice having some real music channels now. This makes E* the music king for now.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

ypsiguy said:


> E* 7 isn't probably completely full yet, but it is certainly closer. E* needs a new bird at 114.5 for HD and extra bandwidth. Too bad the FCC wouldn't grant it, especially since they (and Congress) want a one-dish solution..


The one dish solution is not what congress and the FCC want. They want all the locals from any one given market to be on one satellite. Period. Dish can have one location for regular programming and a second location for locals, but ALL the locals for any one city have to be on ONE satellite.

See ya
Tony


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Oh, yeah....I find it kind of funny that they added the spanish channels to the satellite on May 5. Cinco de Mayo! 

See ya
Tony


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

http://www.mexonline.com/cinco.htm


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Anthony Falcone said:


> He didn't give me my DVR, I had to pay for it and it can't even be compared to Tivo as it is. His big selling point when he started the DVR series was that it carried no monthly fee. Do you think a glorified VCR (with plenty of bugs no less ) that you own outright, should carry a $5 fee per month per receiver?
> 
> On Topic: It will be good having both Muzak & Sirius to choose from.


well as far a sbugs go my 510 was free no bugs yes i would like more features but there were no bugs in mine worked flawless what bugs are you talking about i do have a 522 with a lot of bugs but none on 510 so when its free yes i can justify 5 fee plus the 522 only has 1 fee but you can use dvr at the same time even watch the same dvr event on two tvs at the same time no problem and if you use record plus and set it to record to 522 first then you can use itr as a single mode


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

"Oh, yeah....I find it kind of funny that they added the spanish channels to the satellite on May 5. Cinco de Mayo! "

Would you believe it if I told you that 5 de Mayo is no big deal for us in Mexico? People celebrate it more outside my country. There's probably a BIG 5 de Mayo sale at a large U.S. chain store that explains this. 

"On topic: It will be nice having some real music channels now. This makes E* the music king for now."

A B S O L U T E L Y ! !

Dish will now kick DTV's butt as far as music goes. Through the years I have read many many posts in several forums where people seem unhappy with Muzak. It certainly was my only disappointment when I got Dish back in 1997.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I know that Cinco de Mayo is no big deal in Mexico. A minor holiday if observed at all. Here though, we have the annual Cinco de Mayo, Clifton riot.  The police presence this year made it look more like Iraq than the University area that it is.

See ya
Tony


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> But how long before d* and xm team up


D* was a VERY large early investor in XM. They have since sold their total investment and no longer own any stock in them. This doesn't mean that they couldn't put them up (Dish owns no Sirius stock that I am aware of).


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## shilton (Nov 20, 2002)

Richard King said:


> D* was a VERY large early investor in XM. They have since sold their total investment and no longer own any stock in them. This doesn't mean that they couldn't put them up (Dish owns no Sirius stock that I am aware of).


May not be 100% true...I think I read somewhere that Charlie was an investor in Siruis stock which explains his loyalties to them over XM. If you look deeper into it, I think you will find that Dish does have an interest in Siruis.


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

kwajr said:


> well as far a sbugs go my 510 was free no bugs yes i would like more features but there were no bugs in mine worked flawless what bugs are you talking about i do have a 522 with a lot of bugs but none on 510 so when its free yes i can justify 5 fee plus the 522 only has 1 fee but you can use dvr at the same time even watch the same dvr event on two tvs at the same time no problem and if you use record plus and set it to record to 522 first then you can use itr as a single mode


I don't know where to start on this one. Should I criticize the fact that his post is just one long sentence because he doesn't use periods or capitals? The only thing that's worse is when they use all capitals. Or that he's asking me what bugs I'm talking about and then goes on to say that his 522 has " a lot of bugs" but he doesn't mind because he's only paying one fee on that receiver.

What about the fact that:
Charley implied early on that Dish's DVR's would never have an extra fee.
D* only charges 1 fee per household (for true PVR's).
Dish's DVR's are glorified VCR's, not Tivo's.
Dish's DVR's although improving, are still riddled with bugs (just take a look at the 921 threads) .

Sorry to go off-topic guys; I know this suject has been rehashed on countless other threads.


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Well, it is obvious to me that the DVR fees are Development and Manufacturing subsidies. Otherwise, the DVRs would be loss leaders at the prices they are going for.

The only thing that really concerns me at this point is the original DISHPlayer 7100 will not handle MLB Extra Innings correctly and I have been paying the $10 PTV fee for about 3 years now.


----------



## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

But, they charge you the fee whether you paid $0 or $1,000 for the receiver .


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

JohnH said:


> Well, it is obvious to me that the DVR fees are Development and Manufacturing subsidies. Otherwise, the DVRs would be loss leaders at the prices they are going for.


As I've said before about so much other Dish bullspit...Why is DirecTV able to do it? They charge $99 for their basic DVR's, regardless of brand. They are two-tuner, and offer real PVR functionality with Tivo software. They also charge only ONE DVR fee per account, not per unit. I would imagine a major portion of that fee goes to Tivo, DirecTV probably doesn't keep much of it.


----------



## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

Anthony Falcone said:


> I don't know where to start on this one. Should I criticize the fact that his post is just one long sentence because he doesn't use periods or capitals? The only thing that's worse is when they use all capitals. Or that he's asking me what bugs I'm talking about and then goes on to say that his 522 has " a lot of bugs" but he doesn't mind because he's only paying one fee on that receiver.
> 
> What about the fact that:
> Charley implied early on that Dish's DVR's would never have an extra fee.
> ...


I said that the 510 i had,had no bugs


----------



## Guest (May 6, 2004)

garypen said:


> As I've said before about so much other Dish bullspit...Why is DirecTV able to do it? They charge $99 for their basic DVR's, regardless of brand. They are two-tuner, and offer real PVR functionality with Tivo software. They also charge only ONE DVR fee per account, not per unit. I would imagine a major portion of that fee goes to Tivo, DirecTV probably doesn't keep much of it.


Why is e* able to turn a profit with far fewer customers than D*?(hint hint)


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Probably the same reason that oil companies are so profitable: Greed, with a complete disregard for the consumers, employees, or public at large.

BTW, if you were to actually check the recent earnings reports, you'd see that it's DirecTVon top, not Dish, with Charlie admitting they must ride in D's wake.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Anthony Falcone said:


> Dish's DVR's are glorified VCR's, not Tivo's.


Where do you put the tape? Actually a digital VCR would be neat for archiving shows. I have to archive shows on my crappy $30 analog VCR (it's not even stereo :lol: )


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Don't worry Mike. Stereo's just a fad. :listening

(Someone actually said that to me, about 20 or so years ago, which was about 20 years _after_ stereo had already become well-established.) :shrug:


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## Anthony Falcone (Dec 19, 2003)

Mike Richardson said:


> Where do you put the tape? Actually a digital VCR would be neat for archiving shows. I have to archive shows on my crappy $30 analog VCR (it's not even stereo :lol: )


That's the big surprise on the next Tech Chat, Charley's going to show us where to put the tape. :lol:


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I actually bought a quadrophonic system in the 70s. Now THAT was a fad.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

I'd like to show _him_ where to put it.


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

Geronimo said:


> I actually bought a quadrophonic system in the 70s. Now THAT was a fad.


Me too Geronimo, brothers in arms......... I liked it in its day. It was discrete before anyone knew what the hell that meant.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Geronimo said:


> I actually bought a quadrophonic system in the 70s. Now THAT was a fad.


If I am not mistaken Dolby Prologic surround sound is basically just a modified quadrophonic with a slight variation in the frequency range, with 5 speaker's sharing 4 channels.


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

I guess nobody bought the JVC IRR.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Chris,

Incorrect about Dolby Pro and the old 70's Quadraphonic. The 70's quadraphonic was a system with 4 discrete channels. The reason it did not catch on was because it required equipment that would read 4 tracks and process them individually. I had a Quad turntable and stylus with the 4 outputs going to two separate ams driving 4 speakers. The stylus was quite unique.

Dolby Surround/Dolby pro-logic caught on because it never required special equipment other than a dolby surround or dolby pro-logic processor. The two additional channels were encoded onto the left and right channels by playing tricks with phasing. Cool technology really. The rear channel is one encoded channel and the center channel another. There are only two discrete tracks, the left and right.

So other than Dolby Pro has 4 tracks and so does quadraphonic there is no connection between the two systems at all. It would be like comparing Disney's Fantasound (developed for the movie Fantasia) with Dolby Digital.

See ya
Tony


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## chenrikson (Feb 2, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> Chris,
> 
> Incorrect about Dolby Pro and the old 70's Quadraphonic. The 70's quadraphonic was a system with 4 discrete channels. The reason it did not catch on was because it required equipment that would read 4 tracks and process them individually. I had a Quad turntable and stylus with the 4 outputs going to two separate ams driving 4 speakers. The stylus was quite unique.
> 
> ...


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums

also DVD-A and SACD too!

BTW - My 721 still works fine - no fee, no downloaded commercials! Still cannot get 6000 range, though.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

oblio98 said:


> www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums
> 
> also DVD-A and SACD too!
> 
> BTW - My 721 still works fine - no fee, no downloaded commercials! Still cannot get 6000 range, though.


The 6000s do not showup, yet. On the 721, I have to pull up the EPG and then it will allow one to put the 6000s numbers in. Of course it goes to the nearest available channel in the EPG.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> Chris,
> 
> Incorrect about Dolby Pro and the old 70's Quadraphonic.
> Tony


No he isn't. You're both correct! There were two different, competing quadraphonic formats in the 70's, not unlike the competition between VHS and Beta in the 80's.

One format had four _discrete_ channels from the source, which is apparently what you had. The other was similar to Dolby Pro Logic, which had the rear channels encoded to ride along the stereo tracks in a _matrix_.

I forget what the formats were called. CD-4 and SQ ? But, they were often referred generically as _discrete_ and _matrix_.


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

Bobby94928 said:


> We're getting the music channels and maybe a couple of talk channels. That'd be the left and right chats. Have you ever wondered why we don't have moderate channels?


Because they aren't near as much fun.


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

Darkman said:


> Rap is unsensored also....


They will likely stay that way. The FCC doesn't excersise jurisdiction over pay tv/radio. Only OTA broadcasts.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> I forget what the formats were called. CD-4 and SQ ? But, they were often referred generically as discrete and matrix.


I think you have it correct. Part of the reason Quad died was the confusion in the marketplace over the two competing systems.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

garypen said:


> No he isn't. You're both correct! There were two different, competing quadraphonic formats in the 70's, not unlike the competition between VHS and Beta in the 80's.
> 
> One format had four _discrete_ channels from the source, which is apparently what you had. The other was similar to Dolby Pro Logic, which had the rear channels encoded to ride along the stereo tracks in a _matrix_.
> 
> I forget what the formats were called. CD-4 and SQ ? But, they were often referred generically as _discrete_ and _matrix_.


You are wright of course, now that you reminded me I do remember the 2 formats and I was thinking of the matrix. If I remember correctly some of the high end receivers had both formats available but some mid priced models only had matrix. Thanks for the reminder  .


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

Here's the quad deal:

*Quad 8 Tracks * and *Reels* were pure 4 channel, discrete sources, requiring special tape players with 4 channels.

*Quad LPs* were available in 3 major formats (CD-4, SQ, QS), but originally in a plain matrix (RM).

The earliest quad albums were in the *EV-4 * format, or Electrovoice system. This was a basic encoding system with very little separation.

*Sansui* took this early system and improved on it, creating their QS system. This system was improved over the years when in 1976 they created their Vario-Matrix decoders which could reproduce a very discrete signal from *QS * encoded sources.

*Sony (Columbia)* took the matrix system in a different direction than Sansui, creating their *SQ* system. This system started with very crude decoders, which were also improved up until 1977, when Audionics and Fosgate created high level decoders, including the Tate II.

*JVC * took a different approach with the quad LP. They created the *CD-4* system, which required a special stylus and a "demodulator". These albums were pressed on special vinyl (which begat the MFSL OMR line of stereo LPs) and the grooves of these LPs contained a stereo signal with a second stereo signal modulated above 20KHz to keep the signals separate. When played back and demodulated, there was no mixing of the signals at all, as with all matrix systems, so the result was a true discrete system.

CD-4 was used by RCA, WB, Atlantic, Elektra, Asylum, Arista, A&M, Fantasy
SQ was used by the CBS family of labels, as well as A&M, and others
QS was used by ABC, A&M and others


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Ah yes. You've shaken loose a few more brain cells. The fact that there were multiple matrix systems, with the extrememly similar SQ and QS designations, in addition to the discrete CD-4, it made quad even more complicated. No wonder the whole thing just died a quick death.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I was at one of the local Analog Semiconductor companies here in the valley then and remember us getting involved in all of those decoders including Tate. As I remember, we chased a lot of rainbows but there were no pots of gold at that time in Quad Sound. 

..Doyle


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Did anyone ever tell you that you look a lot like the Governor?


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

I'll mention that to Maria.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Tell her Gary said hi.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Tyralak said:


> Darkman said:
> 
> 
> > Rap is unsensored also....
> ...


The provider still has to deal with their customers. Charlie may not want the calls of irate parents cancelling dish or wanting the Sirius channels removed. Lost customers or listeners don't meet the goal of advertising Sirius.

If they used an automatic bleep box on the E* versions they could still sell Sirius ... "get all the words - subscribe to Sirius satellite boom box or car radio today!"

JL


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## mattb (Apr 29, 2002)

Whats the big deal about Sirius being uncensored? I remeber most of the Music choice channels when I had cable being that way also.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

no big deal.. (not for me anyhow... hehe - i actually like it that way))) - we are just stating the fact though.. and convercing


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

JL, most, if not all, are FTA now.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Alright, Bluegrass.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

John - do you like Sirius any better then DTV's music Choice?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Darkman said:


> John - do you like Sirius any better then DTV's music Choice?


Too early to tell.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

justalurker said:


> The provider still has to deal with their customers. Charlie may not want the calls of irate parents cancelling dish or wanting the Sirius channels removed. Lost customers or listeners don't meet the goal of advertising Sirius.
> 
> If they used an automatic bleep box on the E* versions they could still sell Sirius ... "get all the words - subscribe to Sirius satellite boom box or car radio today!"
> 
> JL


ever heard of blocks


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Re quad... The tape machine on the right in this picture:
http://www.pbase.com/image/3371059 was a derivative of a quad tape machine that Teac developed for the home market. This machine pretty much started the whole home/semi pro recording trend in the early '70's. Who knows how many stars recorded their albums and demos on this kind of equipment back then. I used to haul this equipment around and record local bands in the Minneapolis area. I think this picture was taken in 1976 or '77.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

That phot brings back memories. 1/4 track, 4-channel reel-to-reels weren't totally uncommon, though. It was popular for demo tapes and whatnot. Of course, 1/4 track, 2-channel was the common reel-to-reel machine of the time. 

1/2 track 2-channel was another format popular with track acts (what we would now call "karaoke) like the disco singers of the 70's and early 80's, later switching to DAT. (I did a show with Madonna that way in her early days. Heck. New Kids On The Block would just lip sync to their retail cassette!)

Are those Tascam mixers on the table?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

BTW: There are song titles.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

192 Kbps J. Stereo for those into technical specs.


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## oblio98 (Sep 17, 2002)

TEAC 3340 and 3340S - with "Sound on Sound", 10 1/2" reels, 15ips, allowed layering parts in syncronization. These show up on eBay quite a lot, usually they still fetch upwards of $300.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

I shoulda saved mine!


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## wrate (May 7, 2002)

JohnH said:


> 192 Kbps J. Stereo for those into technical specs.


Wow! They must sound really nice. Thanks for the information.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Are those Tascam mixers on the table?


The mixers are Teac Model 2A. They were 6x4 with unbalanced mic ins. I had a transformer for each input to balance them. The machine on the left is a Teac 7300-2T half track which had a built in 4x2 mixer, so for this gig I had a total of 16 inputs feeding the 4 track 3340. I still have a Tascam 42B half track that I bought off of Ebay for about $275. When I was in the business that machine cost about $2500 or so. I also have a Teac 3300 1/4 track and a broken (but not worth fixing anymore) Revox B77. The Revox I bot new years ago and the Teac 3300 off of Ebay for about $200 or so.

A bit after that picture was taken, I sold the Model 2A/3340 combo package to Jimmy "Jam" Harris and Terry Lewis as their first "studio" system. They paid $600 for the combination and didn't have the bucks for the tax so I discounted the sales tax to make it come to an even $600. They grew a bit from there and this http://www.flytetyme.com/ is the site for their current little studio and business. 

There are some other pix here: http://www.pbase.com/rking401/studio_stuff of some of the REAL old stuff I used to use and some "upgraded" stuff that I bought to replace some of the ancient equipment. The left two pix show old the old tube Ampex 350-4 half inch 4 track multitrack, tube mix machines and the hand built console (transistor) with the big rotary knobs. The third pic shows the upgrade, a custom prototype Auditronics 16x8 console and my Tascam 80-8 1/2 inch 8 track with DBX (no available rack space so it sat in a chair). After the upgrade I was quite "state of the art" considering the limited budget. :lol: I had an Anvil case for the 80-8 and it replaced the 3340 as my location machine.

Numerous regional bands recorded on the ancient tube equipment. Rumor has it, although I was never able to verify, that The Castaways recorded their song "Liar, Liar" using that equipment at another location. That song made the top 10 in 1964 or '65 and still gets airplay on oldies stations. It also was used in the movie "Good Morning Vietnam".


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kwajr said:


> ever heard of blocks


I use them for shopping channels.

In the broadcast world the station bears the final responsibility for what gets on the air and who gets offended. That's why in the broadcast world the station is fined. While those broadcast rules don't apply to E* (yet), E* still retains responsibility to their customers. Sure, we can lock out all the channels but 101. You can even lock out 101. After a while people start complaining about PAYING for locked out channels. The FCC's looking into that now too.

Nice to see Sirius channels getting closer to a releaseable status. I'll have to check a couple of them out on my FTA setup. I look forward to the variety.

And 192 joint stereo is a good format ... Broadcast Quality.

JL


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Dish also has the responsibility for those of us big boys who want to hear a whole song, with out OFFENSIVE beeps and edited versions. I really hope E* doesn't, and I doubt they will do anything to alter the content of the channels. Music Choice, Sirius and XM are light years ahead of Muzak when it comes to music I like and they do a good thing by keeping channels unedited.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

No problem Steve. Just answering the question of why E* might "censor" the feeds.

To each their own, and don't tweach someone else's - without permission. 

JL


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## newsub (Aug 5, 2003)

well some sirius channels are not edited. Most of them are i believe though. I have it in my car and constantly listen to sirius (i love it) but I really don't pay attention to the words to the songs. Of course the only stations that would really have the 4 big words are the rap/hip-hop stations and the hard rock stations that I hardly ever listen to anyways.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

:nono: yes so e* should not censor all of them either for a few subs out there it is your responsibility to raise your kids


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Un-lucky said:


> actually to be a moderate is very hard..you need to be on both sides of an issue at the sametime and never ever take a stand on anything controversial..kinda like most politicians


A moderate means that you don't agree with either one of them and a few issues determine who you wind up holding your nose and voting for THIS week....


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

A moderate is one who is capable of individual thought, can make up his/her own mind about each separate issue (ie: believe in women's right-to-choose AND capital punishment), and doesn't follow the group mind like a little zombie.


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## homeskillet (Feb 3, 2004)

About 3:00 AM CDT on the morning of May 10 I noticed that some Dish Muzak Channels were off-line. Channel 960 and 961 were not playing any music and had no text on the screen. I believe a channel or two in the Mono Muzak channels were off as well. Don't know if this would be related to the Sirius thing or not, but was just an observation. All are working fine this morning.


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## rrbhokies (May 10, 2004)

On Charlie Chat tonight they said that something like 61 channels of Sirrius would be made available within 2 weeks. What they didn't say was whether it will included with certain packages such as Top120, Top180, etc. or will they charge an additional ala-carte price for it?

I think this is a big step forward for E*, but if they charge the full $12 per month for the service, I don't know if I would be interested in it.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

rrbhokies said:


> On Charlie Chat tonight they said that something like 61 channels of Sirrius would be made available within 2 weeks. What they didn't say was whether it will included with certain packages such as Top120, Top180, etc. or will they charge an additional ala-carte price for it?
> 
> I think this is a big step forward for E*, but if they charge the full $12 per month for the service, I don't know if I would be interested in it.


Sirius will be included in AT120 and above at no extra charge.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

rrbhokies said:


> On Charlie Chat tonight they said that something like 61 channels of Sirius would be made available within 2 weeks. What they didn't say was whether it will included with certain packages such as Top120, Top180, etc. or will they charge an additional ala-carte price for it?


Last month Charlie answered a surprise question about Sirius:
*Charlie:* We did have an announcement last month that we signed an agreement with Sirius Radio to carry Sirius Radio on our satellite network and it will be in, I think, America's Top 120 - and 180 and Everything Pack - and it will be available at no extra charge.
(confirming with off camera folks)
61 channels of music and maybe a couple of radio stations that they have that we'll make available at no extra charge.

Then we will have a special deal with Sirius where you can subscribe and have Sirius Radio put in your car. There is an additional charge when you put it in your car. Or you can even have an adapter to run around your home. Or you can go out of our satellite receiver and go into your stereo system and things like that.

So its going to be a great product, it's a great service. I've had it in my car for a long time and its another one of those products that it is kind of hard to live without. Commercial free. No extra charge through the satellite system, and a special way to get it in all your cars.

I believe we are going to launch Sirius Radio at the end of May.
(clarification from the peanuts)
May 20th, so we will probably talk about that on our June 12th, the next Charlie Chat we're on, maybe a little on our technical Charlie Chat next month.

We will probably have to work the kinks out a little bit, and probably June 12th talk about how you can upgrade your car.​AT120 - May 20th - 61 Channels of music (mapped 6001-6099) - maybe some talk

JL


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## rrbhokies (May 10, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback. Certainly, the 61 stations of music will be awesome, especially for free!! However, the part of Sirius that I liked was the talk radio stations and the NFL games. Without Sunday Ticket, carrying the NFL games on Sirius through Dish would be a welcome addition. Maybe something will emerge with those as the summer progresses.


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## newsub (Aug 5, 2003)

I doubt it because dish would have to negotiate with the nfl to offer these channels since sirius can't allow dish to broadcast these channels without the nfl's permission or they themselves could lose the nfl channels to xm who I think is salivating at the thought of sirius messing up and losing those channels.


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## Crazee Carroll (Sep 9, 2003)

homeskillet said:


> About 3:00 AM CDT on the morning of May 10 I noticed that some Dish Muzak Channels were off-line. Channel 960 and 961 were not playing any music and had no text on the screen. I believe a channel or two in the Mono Muzak channels were off as well. Don't know if this would be related to the Sirius thing or not, but was just an observation. All are working fine this morning.


I have noticed that Sunday nights into early Monday mornings they seem to take some of the music channels offline each week. I also noticed that some were not playing anything this past Monday morning. A Lot of times when they take the channels semi offline they just track a CD untill they come back online, but this time there was nothing. It could have been something to do with Sirius this past Monday morning because some of the Video channels were offline for a short time. Usa (105) was down Vh1 (162) was down and I think MTV (160) was down just to name a few. They were in the guide, but no audio or video. CC


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

The extra channel 930 has been removed from the system. So there should be no more problems with some receivers getting Sirius Hits 1 instead of AUD08.

Blame it on JohnH.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

"Blame it on Rio" 

P.S. Any other uplink/downlink activities this fine Tuesday.. John?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Michael Caine says NO.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

JohnH said:


> 192 Kbps J. Stereo for those into technical specs.


This should be significantly better than the regular Sirius satellite radio service in which:



> Sirius allocates approximately 60 kbps to a stereo music channel.


according to:

http://www.rwonline.com/reference-room/special-report/04_rw_coding_2.shtml


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

A good review of Sirius' music offerings and philosophy can be found at:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/satellite/

You can preview the Sirius channels on their website (www.sirius.com) for a period of 3 days (which is plenty long enough, since Dish adds them 5 days from now).

IMHO:

- Dish/Muzak's excellent Reggae channel is much better than Sirius', and Dish/Muzak's Classical channels are also better. Dish/Muzak's Euro-style channel is better than any of Sirius' five Dance channels. [BTW, I think some of you simply can't get past the company's name - "Muzak".]

- However, Sirius' lineup adds some music not currently covered by Dish/Muzak, such as the aforementioned *Bluegrass*, the eclectic *Disorder* channel, and the country-rock channel *Outlaw*.

- Some of the micro-genres covered by Sirius channels are unnecessarily narrow, and in some cases are narrower than any music actually is - with the result that I have encountered literally the same song on two adjacent channels at the same time.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

Steve Mehs said:


> Dish also has the responsibility for those of us big boys who want to hear a whole song, with out OFFENSIVE beeps and edited versions. I really hope E* doesn't, and I doubt they will do anything to alter the content of the channels. Music Choice, Sirius and XM are light years ahead of Muzak when it comes to music I like and they do a good thing by keeping channels unedited.


Dish's solution will be to rate about a half dozen of the Sirius channels as "NR/AO" (Adult Only) and "L" (for Language). This will allow those who want to hear rap and hard rock unedited to hear the Sirius channels unaltered. And, those who object to the language can continue to use their V-Chip settings and Locks to keep those channels out of their homes (which presumably they already do with other channels).


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

ypsiguy said:


> If they'd get rid of those stupid shopping channels, there would be plenty enough bandwidth. I'd even pay a couple of bucks more a month to see them go.
> It would not surprise me though if we get a more compressed version of these audio channels. 1) It would make them fit easier onto the satellites and 2) the degradation would bother someone who liked them enough to go out to get the full service. Remember the goal is to sell Sirius.


Shopping channels help keep rates down,don't forget!


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I know "No one" ever watches the shopping channels. This is why

QCV was the number 3 (right behind NBC and CBS) most profitable network in 2003 with an estimated revenue of $3.8 BILLion

HSN was the number 8 most profitable network in 2003 with $1.76 BILLion (Just between HBO and TNT)

ShopNBC was the number 19 most profitable network in 2003 with $620 Million.

The industry numbers say that there are approximately 136.2 million viewers of these channels "no one" watches.

If no one really watched these channels, they would crumble away and turn to dust.

See ya
Tony


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I have always wondered who watches infomercials. But clearly someone does.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Shopping channels help keep rates down,don't forget!


It would be nice if the BCC Channel would go up.. I'm sick of CNN, MSNBC, FOX News. We need balance! Don't forget, Air America is coming!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Don't forget, Air America is coming!


No ... it isn't.

Shopping channels are on because they can pay.
Air America won't be on because THEY CAN'T PAY.

And there is no way that Charlie is going to pay them (or any other radio channel) to spread their propaganda. Air America doesn't even plan on being on the air after November ... and they are getting a head start on that game plan by losing stations already. (I'd say "losing major stations", but Air America has never been on one.)

JL


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Hey Paul, I knew you'd open a can of stinky worms with your Air America comment. (I guess "Fair and Balanced" only applies to Fox. Opposing opinion is "propaganda".)


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

garypen said:


> Hey Paul, I knew you'd open a can of stinky worms with your Air America comment. (I guess "Fair and Balanced" only applies to Fox. Opposing opinion is "propaganda".)


no not quite.."air America" pays radio stations to carry their drivel(kinda like home shopping) ..cable systems PAY fox news for their product


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

justalurker said:


> No ... it isn't.
> 
> Shopping channels are on because they can pay.
> Air America won't be on because THEY CAN'T PAY.
> ...


The problem with Air America, is that they seem to be ignoring how Conservative and Libertarian talk radio got started. It wasn't through some forced creation of a network artificially propped up with money from donors. It was a grass roots effort. You had a few radio pioneers like Howard Stern, and Rush Limbaugh who had something to say, and were interested in radio as a medium. Conservative/Libertarian talk radio evolved to what it is today because of tried and true business principles. It was never designed or contrived to be what it is today, it was just average Joes who had something they wanted to say, and radio was an accesable medium. It happened to fill a niche in the market that wasn't being served, and as more and more people realized it was out there, it became more and more popular. When you think about it, it really is the voice of the people. Most of these talk hosts (with the exception of the really major ones) are just average people living average lives, and their voices speak to other average people out there. People who are encouraged to participate in the discussion and debate on the air. It really is pretty cool when you think about it. If Liberals want to have the same sucsess in talk radio, they should follow the same pattern as the Conservative/Libertarian hosts have. Air America was just going about things entirely wrong.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

garypen said:


> Hey Paul, I knew you'd open a can of stinky worms with your Air America comment. (I guess "Fair and Balanced" only applies to Fox. Opposing opinion is "propaganda".)


The opposing viewpoint to Faux News is CNN/CNN-HN/CNN International, not that not-work of mythical stations that is Air America.



Tyralak said:


> The problem with Air America, is that they seem to be ignoring how Conservative and Libertarian talk radio got started. It wasn't through some forced creation of a network artificially propped up with money from donors.
> 
> If Liberals want to have the same sucsess in talk radio, they should follow the same pattern as the Conservative/Libertarian hosts have. Air America was just going about things entirely wrong.


I agree. Put out content that people WANT to hear enough that programmers will invest their airwaves to share the programming. You can dollar-a-hollar any bad radio station in the country ... getting to add your program without paying is the trick!

Does anyone think Rush has to pay to be on any station? Air America - what a joke!

BTW: The final failing of Air America is that upon creation they announced that they don't want to be a permanent network. They just want to be on the air long enough to influence the election in Novemeber then Al and the gang will be happy to get off their soapbox. It won't happen, but the FCC should consider them a paid political ad and require that every station offer equal time (including equal dayparts) to the opposing viewpoint.

But then that's the way it goes. Can't win Florida? Go to court and get some judges to declare you the winner. Then when the Supreme Court rules that those judges HAD NO BUSINESS MEDDLING IN AN ELECTION and throws out the state ruling spend the next four years lying about it. Then start a propaganda feed intended PRIMARILY to oust a president and expect stations to gladly pick it up? Not in America!

Fortunately this kind of coup is stopped in our country via the wonders of capitalism. Stations want to make money. If they can't make money off of local advertisers on a national show then they need money from the national show. MOST national talk radio is done on a cashless barter basis. Play Rush and the national feed commercials and "Rush" gives you a few minutes per hour for local sponsors and content. No cash changes hands.

But Air America doesn't have the quality broadcasters want ... so it's up to them to BUY their way on the air like a $2 dollar-a-holler preacher. And be kicked off the air when the faithful fail to support their program. Welcome to America.

JL


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

justalurker said:


> No ... it isn't.
> 
> Shopping channels are on because they can pay.
> Air America won't be on because THEY CAN'T PAY.
> ...


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

> 192 Kbps J. Stereo for those into technical specs.


Hmm, isn't this lower than the rate for the CD Music channels, which I had heard was 224?



> This should be significantly better than the regular Sirius satellite radio service in which...Sirius allocates approximately 60 kbps to a stereo music channel.


Different codecs for different folks! On Dish network, the audio will be mp2; I'm sure that Sirius receivers are using their own proprietary compression scheme, something likely based on AAC or mp4.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

justalurker said:


> The opposing viewpoint to Faux News is CNN/CNN-HN/CNN International, not that not-work of mythical stations that is Air America.
> 
> JL


Well no. CNN reports actual news. It is not an opposing viewpoint to Fox. (Unless you consider news to be the opposite of bullsh*t.)

Perhaps the recently announced news channel that Al Gore's group will be creating from NWI will provide more of an opposing viewpoint to Fox. You know, a little bullsh*t for the other side of the triple-beam.


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## Guest (May 17, 2004)

garypen said:


> Well no. CNN reports actual news. It is not an opposing viewpoint to Fox. (Unless you consider news to be the opposite of bullsh*t.)
> 
> Perhaps the recently announced news channel that Al Gore's group will be creating from NWI will provide more of an opposing viewpoint to Fox. You know, a little bullsh*t for the other side of the triple-beam.


Your absolutely right!!! but most of america does not consider saddam hussanes election results to be news..there was an excellent site about the downfall of cnn put together by all the exstaffers of cnn when time warner decide to ruin what ted turner had worked so hard to build www.tedsturnovers.com


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Paul Secic said:


> Air America will be around for a long time. They chosed the wrong company in Chicago & LA. They lied. They were never on in LA because that station broadcasted & streamed Korean when they were under lease to Air America. It's Web Site is in Korean. The broadcaster was wrong. I'll say this: Air America needs to research more careefully who they deal with.


Air America doesn't have a brain, therefore they don't have a chance.

The "wrong" company? Where did they pick the right company? All but one of their kickoff stations were non-talk stations where they bought their way on the air. Kick off the Carribean Music or AM Oldies for a couple of hours and let Al speak! They bought any time they could get in big markets ... just so they coulds say "we're on the air in Chicago, New York, LA and other major markets". Their internet stream reached more listeners than the rented cities combined!

Being on satellite radio was their only savior. Someone can hear them! But they don't need to be on E*. At least not without paying their way!

Mark this thread, Paul. See you in January when Air America is a faded memory.

JL


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

Air America will not survive because there is no profit model. They had to pay *every station* that they're on to carry them. With Conservative Talk Radio, the station pays the talk show for the right to carry it. If you have to pay people money to listen to you, then you won't survive. Simple as that.


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## Guest (May 18, 2004)

Lyle_JP said:


> Air America will not survive because there is no profit model. They had to pay *every station* that they're on to carry them. With Conservative Talk Radio, the station pays the talk show for the right to carry it. If you have to pay people money to listen to you, then you won't survive. Simple as that.


Not true. I have worked in Christian radio for several years and nearly all the talk/teaching program you hear are paid for by the company (ministry) that produces the program. Focus on the Family is one of the most popular and successful programs in this genre and it has been on for over 20 years by paying the stations to air it. Now, they are able to pay the stations from the contributions they get from listeners (they are a non-profit organization) but it still shows that it can be done.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jericho29 said:


> Not true. I have worked in Christian radio for several years and nearly all the talk/teaching program you hear are paid for by the company (ministry) that produces the program.


Christian radio would fall into the "dollar-a-holler" catagory.  We're talking about real syndicated talk radio, which hasn't been Christian in a long time.



jericho29 said:


> Focus on the Family is one of the most popular and successful programs in this genre and it has been on for over 20 years by paying the stations to air it. Now, they are able to pay the stations from the contributions they get from listeners (they are a non-profit organization) but it still shows that it can be done.


Focus started out as a live call in, but left that format for produced shows a long time ago. It has to be one of the best "dollar-a-holler" programs in the marketplace --- and *IS* good enough to holler on many stations without the dollar. Some stations will play Focus for free because it makes THE STATION sound more legitimate. Some stations play ALL of their religious programming for free, not charging any ministry for airtime. But that is the different nature between religious programming and "talk radio".

There are three types of programs on the air:
Those that pay, those that ARE paid, and those who are 'free' or barter.

The largest catagory for talk radio is barter. For example: The station plays three hours of Michael Medved (a Jew) from Salem Radio Network (a predomenently Christian network). Salem gets $0 from the station. Salem pays $0 to the station. Medved's show includes several minutes of local commercial space for the station to recoup their expenses and a few minutes of national ads for the network to recoup their expenses.

Then there are "those that pay". Perhaps the program is not good enough to get enough local support. Perhaps the programmer (like MOST religious programming - including Focus) doesn't leave space in their programs for local advertising. The programmer gets their money through the special offers imbedded in the show. But the station's transmitter doesn't run on free electricity so someone has to pay! This is where Air America is ... not good enough to raise local funds on it's own merits.

The few programs that are paid are usually more "program feeds" than "programs". On religious radio that would be the Salem, Moody, or other music feeds. They are either commercial free, don't have enough network spots on the feed to pay all of their costs, or are enough of an added value to the station that they can charge some pittance (perhaps $400 per month plus barter).

I have seen the pricing for Rush and the other big talkers. There is the possibility that the top talkers ARE paid by their affiliate stations, but I doubt it. The barter model is the most common, with the prize of having a program like Rush going to the station with the best signal or promotion. Lesser programs go to the second or third station in the market.

Air America is the booby prize ... for the station that can't get anything else. And in reality, it has even been turned down for that level of programming. Turning it into dollar-a-holler talk radio.

:backtotop I think that was "Sirius Channels" ... which will not include Air America.

Sorry Al. Really, I'm not.

JL


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## Jaspear (May 16, 2004)

justalurker said:


> I have seen the pricing for Rush and the other big talkers. There is the possibility that the top talkers ARE paid by their affiliate stations, but I doubt it. The barter model is the most common, with the prize of having a program like Rush going to the station with the best signal or promotion. Lesser programs go to the second or third station in the market.JL


Except in markets where Premiere Radio "repatriates" its shows to a local Clear Channel station. In my market, those Premiere shows (Rush, Laura, Glenn Beck etc.) went from a 50kw market leader to a Clear Channel station without an audience.


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

Barter is indeed quite common. Even realtiely successful programs like "Don & Mike" (hosted by Mike O'Meara and soem guy with a funny name) are distributed that way. Such shows get entry into markets by promising the number 12 station in a thirteen station market that they can doubler their ratings (often from a 2 share to a 4 but hey that is a doubling ) and that there will be almost nothing in expenses. 

If the show is a hit both parties prosper. If it fails ---well at least they did not lose much.


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## Tyralak (Jan 24, 2004)

garypen said:


> Well no. CNN reports actual news. It is not an opposing viewpoint to Fox. (Unless you consider news to be the opposite of bullsh*t.)


I hope you're not suggesting that CNN is unbiased. Because such a concept doesn't exist. "Objective" journalism is a whole cloth fiction. I've written about this before. There is no "objective" news source. All put their own spin on things.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Tyralak said:


> I hope you're not suggesting that CNN is unbiased. Because such a concept doesn't exist. "Objective" journalism is a whole cloth fiction. I've written about this before. There is no "objective" news source. All put their own spin on things.


That is exactly what I'm suggesting. But, even conceding your point that there is bias inherent in all journalism, CNN is orders of maginitude less biased than Fox, which is not news, but almost pure editorial. (Which is fine, BTW. They should just advertise it as such, like Rush, Savage, Laura, etc, not as "fair and balanced" _news_.)

And, BTW, the whole "liberal media" myth is a crock of manure. (Except, of course, for Air America, much of NPR, and other isolated cases of small public interest, community, and college stations.) Print media is an entirely different issue, where there is often political bias, NY Post and LA Times being prime examples in both directions.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

All news is propaganda, automatically. The math to show this is simple.

Take a half-hour daily newscast (such as Network Nightly News or Headline News).

During that day, over 6 Billion People were awake for 16 hours, in other words, the people on earth did 100 Billion Hours of activities that day.

So, the news shows you one two-hundred-billionth of what went on!

If you want a simple example, compare the number of hours of coverage of various health problems versus the number of deaths due to those problems.

The people who are in news media choose that career, because they "want to make a difference". Unfortunately, their not-very-bright idea of how to do that, is to publicize all the things going on that they think are negative. 

The result is that:

- People get stressed out (especially with 24-hours news channels). Read Dr. Weil's recommendations on improving your health by avoiding news.
- People think that things are worse than they are. This causes people to be more pessimistic, which has a significant inhibiting effect on the economy.
- People think that other people are worse than they are. Every crime is publicized, giving people the impression that other people are out to get them. This causes a climate of fear and mistrust, which then promotes the idea of "look out for number one", which in turn causes people to try and manipulate others for their own benefit, including committing crimes.

SO, the news - which seeks to make the world better by exposing negative events - actually causes more of those negative events.


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## Guest (May 18, 2004)

according to another reliable forum,sirius will be up on dish by 5pm today.


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## Lyle_JP (Apr 22, 2002)

> That is exactly what I'm suggesting. But, even conceding your point that there is bias inherent in all journalism, CNN is orders of maginitude less biased than Fox, which is not news, but almost pure editorial.


I think you're looking at Fox News a little wrong. True, most of Fox New's programming line-up *is* Editorial shows. So if you were to look at Fox News Channel as a whole you could argue that it's more biased than CNN.

But let's be reasonable. You watch an Editorial show _expecting_ opinionated commentary. But outside those shows I have found Fox News to be the least editorial in their actual news reporting segments (my opinion, of course). CNN likes to slip its liberal editorializing in wherever it can, especially when they're pretending to just "give you the news".


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## Guest (May 18, 2004)

The Sirius Channels are on and they sound INCREDIBLE! This is going to be great for this summer when we have barbecues to be able to pump this out to the patio. And yes many of the channels are uncensored which is refreshing change from Muzak!


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Lyle_JP said:


> But let's be reasonable. You watch an Editorial show _expecting_ opinionated commentary.


I agree 100%. It's advertising themselves as "fair and balanced" that rubs my rubharb.



> But outside those shows I have found Fox News to be the least editorial in their actual news reporting segments (my opinion, of course). CNN likes to slip its liberal editorializing in wherever it can, especially when they're pretending to just "give you the news".


I disagree 100%. Please give an example of CNN's liberal edititorializing of its news coverage. I have never seen it. In fact, they always seem to be going out of their way to present a balanced viewpoint, as if to dispel the "liberal media" myth.

I will, OTOH, give an example of Fox's: During the first few days of the Iraq invasion, there was a shot of an Abrams on a bridge firing at the balcony where the camera taking the shot was located. There was no visible evidence of any enemy fire coming from the balcony (there may have well been, but there was no visible evidence as such.) Yet, the Fox anchorman immediately started to justify the Abrams firing upon the news crew by saying there was enemy fire coming from there. (The balcony was on the hotel that was being used almost exclusively by the media, BTW.)

He was saying that "clearly, the Abrams crew are returning fire", when it was not clear at all. He even tried to tell the viewers that the plaster fragments beening thrown up by the tank crew's bullets' impact, were in fact shells from the enemy located on this balcony!

The crew _may_ have been returning fire, they _may_ have been mistaken, they _may_ have wanted the film crew to stop filming. Who knows? That anchorman certainly didn't. He was taking it upon himself to defend the actions of the tank crew. That, is what I called editorializing the news.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

where has this thread gone


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Oops. You're right kwajr. 

I'm looking forward to checking out Sirius, when I get home.

BTW, I wonder what will happen to the CD Audio channels? It seems they could lose them, and fre up a little bandwidth and a lot of EPG clutter. 
(I don't get the Mono Muzak channels with AT120, so I don't care about them.)


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

Chris Walker said:


> The Sirius Channels are on and they sound INCREDIBLE! This is going to be great for this summer when we have barbecues to be able to pump this out to the patio. And yes many of the channels are uncensored which is refreshing change from Muzak!


Yup, by having the Sirius channels, Charlie has made AT120+Locals the best basic TV/music pack in the market. I suspect a few more people will switch from cable.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kwajr said:


> where has this thread gone


Sirius-ly misguided at the moment. Oh well. Time to go home and tune in! 

JL


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

i just mean it had nothing to do with serius at this point


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kwajr said:


> i just mean it had nothing to do with serius at this point


Or Sirius ... The thread has been through two major drifts and now that there is a new thread and the channels are on this thread should be closed.

JL


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