# ASK DBSTalk: Next 921 software update ............



## Rodney (Aug 22, 2003)

Hopefully Mark will comment on this.

I called the Charlie Chat last night (did not make it on the air question was answered by a CSR) to inquire about a fix for the 921 not being able to record certain OTA channels. To my surprise I was advised that the fix would be in the next update which is scheduled to spool today.


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Mark can you confirm this? I was hoping that this would fix my guide issue.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

An upgrade would be most welcome on my part. I'm told that my 921's inability to get a lock on _any _ off-air broadcasts (both DTV and ATV) is part of an upcoming update which is currently in Beta.

My concern is that my 921 has a hardware defect because I haven't seen any other postings with 921 owners who cannot receive any off-air channels.

...and before people start dishing out advice, I can take the same off-air coax cable from the diplexer and run it to directly to any other video device and receive a prestine signal (all analog and 4 of 5 digital) but when connected to my 921... NADA! :nono: :nono2: :nono: :nono2:

I'm holding out for the next update and it it isn't fixed, I'm pushing for a replacement unit.

Spence


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'd be very surprised if the next version spooled today...maybe by the end of the week, and that's a slim "maybe"...it'll depend on how the testing goes over the next couple of days.

And I can't confirm or deny any fixes in the betas. Even if I could, though, I couldn't say one way or the other about some OTA stations and recording problems, as I don't get hit with that one in Denver. I have no problems recording any of my OTAs here, unfortunately. Also, I have no idea about the guide either, as my guide has never changed looks.

Spence - I know that's what they told you, but I'm still pretty convinced that your problem lies with the hardware, not the software...


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Rodney said:


> Hopefully Mark will comment on this.
> 
> I called the Charlie Chat last night (did not make it on the air question was answered by a CSR) to inquire about a fix for the 921 not being able to record certain OTA channels. To my surprise I was advised that the fix would be in the next update which is scheduled to spool today.


I have called three or four times into the Charlie Chat show and am convinced that they are purposely not letting those of us that have 921 questions through. Do you think it could be because of all the bugs in the 921 software? The people that answer these phone calls don't know much about the 921. The person I spoke to said that they download software to the 921 almost nightly which is not true unless he was talking about the guide information which is downloaded nightly?


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

SpenceJT said:


> An upgrade would be most welcome on my part. I'm told that my 921's inability to get a lock on _any _ off-air broadcasts (both DTV and ATV) is part of an upcoming update which is currently in Beta.
> 
> My concern is that my 921 has a hardware defect


I have come to believe that the current inability to add some OTA DTV channels and the inability to record some of the OTA DTV channels is hardware related and unfixable without a redesign of the 921.

I think the 921 will remain crippled in this and other ways forever. We are now over 6 months since the 921's release and still missing basic functionality. This is very bad and not a good sign for the future of this device.


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## bobl (Jan 17, 2004)

Jerry,

The inability to add some OTA digital channels is at least partially (maybe completely) due to a problem with the channels signal/PSIP information. The UPN affiliate here in the Bay Area (KBHK-digital 45) couldn't be added to my 921 when I got it in January. I kept trying to add it on a regular basis but couldn't even though I got a strong signal and both my 6000 and 811 units could tune it in. The particular channel does not transmit any PSIP information although that might have changed in late April. One day I was trying to again add this channel as I had done many times before and to my suprise I was able to do it. I've had it ever since and can now record the only program on that network that I'm interested in (Enterprise). I still see no evidence of PSIP information as the call letters of KBHK still don't show up nor is the channel remapped to it's analog number as all other stations in the Bay Area are but something changed with their signal as there was no update to the 921 software around the time that I was able to add the station. Hopefully the 921's software can be modified to deal with stations like this but perhaps a call to the station might shed some light on the issue.

Bob


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Mark-
I haved the one station here that doesn't have DVR function so I'll be sure to test that as soon as the next software downloads. Hasn't been a problem because as Charlie would put it, that station is just not airing "compelling" programming. I hardly ever watch the channel.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

bobl said:


> Jerry,
> 
> The inability to add some OTA digital channels is at least partially (maybe completely) due to a problem with the channels signal/PSIP information.
> Bob


Yes, that's true and I'm aware of that. Yet, the 811 and my previous 6000 receivers could tune in those channels, as could my old Panasonic DTV STB and Unity Motion STB. If all those STBs could deal with what is perhaps improper PSIP or missing PSIP, shouldn't a newer STB such as the 921 also be able to deal with it? The answer of course is a resounding YES. But, alas, the 921 can't deal with it, and perhaps never will.


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> Mark-
> I haved the one station here that doesn't have DVR function so I'll be sure to test that as soon as the next software downloads. Hasn't been a problem because as Charlie would put it, that station is just not airing "compelling" programming. I hardly ever watch the channel.


I think you've hit upon something here, Don. It's Charlie who determined that the two Los Angeles DTV channels that can't be saved to the 921 linup have no compelling content and therefore not worthy of being shown the prestigious 921 channel guide.

Of course that doesn't explain why our PBS channel, KCET, can be tuned in but not recorded. I think PBS has compelling content. But maybe Charlie thinks some PBS channels aren't compelling or worthy enough to have their data bits hosted by the 921.


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## Rodney (Aug 22, 2003)

As I type this message I am on the phone with Dish technical support. I am still being told that L186 is scheduled for release on Tuesday July 13. The support specialist said his log shows that the decision to issue the release today was made yesterday.

I guess my calls are being routed to the tell him what he wants to hear department. Anyone else have similar results?


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

SpenceJT said:


> An upgrade would be most welcome on my part. I'm told that my 921's inability to get a lock on _any _off-air broadcasts (both DTV and ATV) is part of an upcoming update which is currently in Beta.
> 
> My concern is that my 921 has a hardware defect because I haven't seen any other postings with 921 owners who cannot receive any off-air channels.


Spence, I can't receive any digital OTA stations. I never received any analog OTA because they are all on VHF and I have a UHF only antenna. But, when hooked to cable I can receive analog. You and I are definitely in the minority, as most people can get at least one digital channel, but you are the only one I heard that cannot even receive any analog. As far as pushing for a replacement, I was recently told that no replacements are being given for any OTA problems. Good Luck.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

It's possible, based on something that I heard this morning, but I still think it's highly unlikely you'll see L186 today. But, I've sent off the message to the person that makes that decision, so we'll see what they say.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Adam - as an aside to this, I know of 2 users this week who were unable to receive any OTA channles that got their receivers replaced, and now they receive all of their OTAs. Both of them were definitely hardware problems, and both were sent replacements. I suggest that you keep calling until you get a tech that will authorize the replacement.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Adam,

Thanks for piping up! I've been thinking I'm all alone with this issue of _no OTA channels_.

I've just sent another e-mail to Pete Dall with Dish Network pointing out Mark's statement.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Adam - as an aside to this, I know of 2 users this week who were unable to receive any OTA channles that got their receivers replaced, and now they receive all of their OTAs. Both of them were definitely hardware problems, and both were sent replacements. I suggest that you keep calling until you get a tech that will authorize the replacement.


Thanks for that information Mark. Pete Dall firmly believes that my OTA issue is not a hardware issue. I hold out hope that he is correct because I'm tired of tearing my entertainment system apart (I'm on my second 921 ...thus far).

Still, my gut instinct is that if it were a _known bug_, I'd see far more 921 owners who are completely unable to receive any OTA channels. So far, what I understand of the OTA bug is that "_some_" and not "_all_" channels are affected.

...in my case, I'm screwed for local HD until the problem is either _fixed _ or the unit is replaced with a 921 that has a working OTA module. 

Needless to say, I am becoming frustrated to the point of leaning toward the "_dark side_" (a.k.a joining those who jump ship to D* and bash Dish Network). :eek2:

I want my OTA...

*YESTERDAY!*​


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> It's possible, based on something that I heard this morning, but I still think it's highly unlikely you'll see L186 today.


But then, the question is do we want L186? The box is more stable since L185 (though I'm still having to occasionaly re-add OTA channels). The version dropping the OTA channels never should have been released.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

OTA channels have been dropping since L142. I think probably that L186 will help some people out very much because it will solve their specific problems, will help out other people a little bit because of a couple of minor fixes it has, and will help other people out not at all because it doesn't address what problems they are having. That's my opinion anyway. (and I'm speaking generally, rather than specifically with this message - I don't yet know what all of the fixes in L186 are.)


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

bobl said:


> Jerry,
> 
> The inability to add some OTA digital channels is at least partially (maybe completely) due to a problem with the channels signal/PSIP information. The UPN affiliate here in the Bay Area (KBHK-digital 45) couldn't be added to my 921 when I got it in January. I kept trying to add it on a regular basis but couldn't even though I got a strong signal and both my 6000 and 811 units could tune it in. The particular channel does not transmit any PSIP information although that might have changed in late April. One day I was trying to again add this channel as I had done many times before and to my suprise I was able to do it. I've had it ever since and can now record the only program on that network that I'm interested in (Enterprise). I still see no evidence of PSIP information as the call letters of KBHK still don't show up nor is the channel remapped to it's analog number as all other stations in the Bay Area are but something changed with their signal as there was no update to the 921 software around the time that I was able to add the station. Hopefully the 921's software can be modified to deal with stations like this but perhaps a call to the station might shed some light on the issue.
> 
> Bob


That is absolute nonsense. There are a lot of manufacturers of OTA tuners. ALL of them, with the exception of the 921, can tune in all of the stations. The missing PSIP prevents the boxes from shifting the station to it's "normal" channel number (e.g. a channel broadcast as 66 gets a 13-1 identifier) and the box cannot label the channel with its call letters. That's it. If Dish doesn't get that one fixed... and claims that it is the station's fault ... a bunch of lawyers will make a lot of money by filing a class action on our behalf .... whether we want it or not.


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Adam - as an aside to this, I know of 2 users this week who were unable to receive any OTA channles that got their receivers replaced, and now they receive all of their OTAs. Both of them were definitely hardware problems, and both were sent replacements. I suggest that you keep calling until you get a tech that will authorize the replacement.


Last Thursday after I was told that they wouldn't replace any 921's due to any OTA issues, I wrote [email protected] and still haven't heard back from them. I did call back and spoke to someone else in advanced technical support tonight after seeing your post, Mark. This time they agreed to send me a replacement. I should have it in a couple of days and will let you all know how I make out. Thanks for your help Mark. It pays to play CSR roulette!


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Alright, I'm starting to get a little steamed with Dish Network. I've been assured that it wasn't a hardware problem with my 921.

Here is the quote from Dish Network's Peter Dall.


> Jeff:
> Rest assured that the problem is not with your 921. There is an issue on
> DISH's end that Engineering is working to resolve. Beta testing is being
> done right now. As soon as we can be sure it will not create other problems,
> ...


Now, I'll give Peter the benefit of the doubt because my OTA issue coincided with this other OTA issue but I'm once again going with my gut here in that my 921 has a defective OTA module.

Here's proof!

_NOTE - I am within five miles of all major network signal sources._

Here is the result of scanning for both off-air analog and digital channels.









Here is a wonderful little photo of the only channel (ATV) that my 921 was able to detect. I'd like to add that there is no "channel 28" in my viewing area so the 921 has detected channel 27 as 28! ...you can see how well the 921 receives it! :eek2: 









Here is what the analog tuner inside of my _Mitsubishi _ sees from the same feed (note the channel information on the screen)








...WMTV NBC 15 (below) is the only station that is not optimized at this time. They are in the process of building a new tower which will go online in August. They will also be doubling their DTV signal strength.




































Once again, my 811 is receiving solid DTV signals from all of the above stations.

What local channels can _my _ 921 receive? *Not a single damn one of them*!

I'll be on the phone with someone at Dish first thing Wednesday morning and I will be demanding a replacement 921! 

Spence


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

SpenceJT said:


> I'll be on the phone with someone at Dish first thing Wednesday morning and I will be demanding a replacement 921!


Spence,

I was told lat week that no replacement 921's will be sent due to OTA issues. Notice in my post above that a new 921 is on it's way to me. Keep trying until you get them to agree to send you another 921. It pays to play CSR roulette! Good luck.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

DVDDAD said:


> Spence,
> 
> I was told lat week that no replacement 921's will be sent due to OTA issues. Notice in my post above that a new 921 is on it's way to me. Keep trying until you get them to agree to send you another 921. It pays to play CSR roulette! Good luck.


It looks as though I'll have 921 #3 on Thursday.


> Jeff:
> 
> Thanks for waiting for 1.86. Since that didn't fix the issue, I will do a no-cost overnight RA. The RMA number is [omitted]. Please do me a favor and attach a note to the 921 that says "Signal Loss is on OTA channels" so that Service knows what to fix.
> 
> ...


Here is Pete's followup to my request for a tracking number.


> Jeff:
> 
> I overnighted the replacement 921 and was able to get that into the system before 2pm MST. This means it should ship today and you should get it tomorrow. My system probably won't show a tracking number until tomorrow morning. Once I see the tracking number, I'll forward it to you.
> 
> Pete


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## Bogney (Jul 11, 2003)

DVDDAD said:


> This time they agreed to send me a replacement. I should have it in a couple of days and will let you all know how I make out.


Did you receive your replacement 921? If so, did it cure your lack of OTA stations problem?


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

Bogney said:


> Did you receive your replacement 921? If so, did it cure your lack of OTA stations problem?


I finally got my replacement 921 and again I wasn't able to get my digital OTA's. I was still not sure if it was the 921's new software that was causing the issue (remember I first lost the digital OTA's after a reboot after getting a new software update) so I took advantage of Dish's leasing option on the 811, paying $50 upfront, then $5/month. The 811 still had no digital OTA's so it was now apparent that it was my antenna hardware. After trouble shooting, I found that one 12 foot section of coax was bad. Indeed this was my hardware that caused the problem, but I still feel that the 921 caused the short in the bad cable, because the timing of the hardware failure was just to coinsidental to the new software being loaded into the 921.

It's just too bad that I waited two months to get things fixed. I missed the NBA finals and more because I was waiting for software to fix this problem. It nice to have my digital OTA's back. It's nicer to know that people like you, Bogney still exist and are willing to give a stranger a hand. Thanks again for your offer; I really appreciate it.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

DVDDAD said:


> I finally got my replacement 921 and again I wasn't able to get my digital OTA's. I was still not sure if it was the 921's new software that was causing the issue (remember I first lost the digital OTA's after a reboot after getting a new software update) so I took advantage of Dish's leasing option on the 811, paying $50 upfront, then $5/month. The 811 still had no digital OTA's so it was now apparent that it was my antenna hardware. After trouble shooting, I found that one 12 foot section of coax was bad. Indeed this was my hardware that caused the problem, but I still feel that the 921 caused the short in the bad cable, because the timing of the hardware failure was just to coinsidental to the new software being loaded into the 921.


You now have a 921 and an 811 and they both work okay now? That is great news!


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

jsanders said:


> You now have a 921 and an 811 and they both work okay now? That is great news!


And the 921 helped him locate substandard/degraded cable!


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