# New subscriber and now I am mad!



## emailman (Dec 24, 2007)

Hello all,

I am a fairly new DirecTV user (6 weeks) with my new 47" Philips LCD. I am pleased with the picture, but I am very angry about the "new" HD tier and the $5 price. I left the cable company because of their pricing.

My question is does DirecTV have a Trial period? I am past 30 days, but have not hit 60 days and I wonder if I have cancellation rights to use when I call up to complain about the price increase. I am under the 2 year commitment to them.


Thanks

Emailman


----------



## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

Unfortunately there is no trial period. You have up until the install is completed to cancel, after that the commitment kicks in. IMO the few channels contained in the Extra pack are not worth it, you will still get 95% of the HD with just HD access.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

First off, welcome to the forums, emailman! :welcome_s

I'm sorry to have to tell you there isn't a trial period, certainly not after the first 30 days. You either must maintain a minimum level of programming or payout the commitment fee at this point.

It is interesting you ask about a trial period--the channels in the HD-Extra pack were actually in a trial period for roughly 3 months and now need to be subscribed to. The good news is that if you subscribe to the HD-Extra pack before February, you will get another 3 months free.

There are a number of surprised and/or angry people over how DIRECTV handled this new package. Even tho I was not surprised about this change, I fully understand how it can happen and the disappointment or frustration that might occur.

I also look at the big picture. DIRECTV has lots of HD, that many of have been awaiting for a long time. We have many more channels than I'd ever get from my local comcast, more than with Dish. And at a smaller cost--given the packages I do have. So while I'm never thrilled by a price increase, I know they will happen and I'm still sitting much better than I would be with any other provider.

I wish you and everyone a very Merry Christmas!
Tom


----------



## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

from what i understand you had 3 days to cancel after installation. then the 2 year commitment kicks in. also remember that not all states has the 3 day cancellation contract laws.


----------



## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

gulfwarvet said:


> from what i understand you had 3 days to cancel after installation. then the 2 year commitment kicks in. also remember that not all states has the 3 day cancellation contract laws.


Wisconsin has the "3 day cancellation" law. It was created many, many years ago to protect housewives from "door-to-door" salesmen who used high-pressure techniques to get them to sign contracts. Many times, hubby would get home and go through the ceiling after reading the "fine print".

Since the lease contract with DirecTV is delivered by and you sign it for the installer, the 3 day cancellation law applies. (at least in Wisconsin) While 3 days isn't a lot of time, it gives you enough time to check out the service and visit directv.com and see exactly what charges you are going to be billed for.

Note that all the programming packages at DirecTV (and all the other providers) say "rate subject to change at any time". So, theoretically, DirecTV could lure in as many folks as possible for the holiday season, get them under a 2 year commitment, and then jack the rates through the roof. Of course, if they did this, they would lose one heck of a lot of customers at the end of the two years!! 

And it wouldn't take long for word to get around and do a number on their new customer signups the following year not to mention the effect it would have on DISH network's advertising campaign.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

DirecTV does not have a trial period. You are now locked into a two year commitment. DirecTV uses the commitment to reduce churn and to ensure that they recoup their investment in installation and equipment discounts provided to customers.

The commitment period does not obligate DirecTV to freeze your programming package or pricing. DirecTV is free to change their programming and pricing at any time. You should not be surprised to see annual price increases. DirecTV has raised the price of their Choice package about 45% over the past 4 years. You should expect this trend to continue.


----------



## cnmsales (Jan 9, 2007)

Why would you be upset Directv is asking 5 bucks more for channels that ar hardly worth having, with the exception of two. Would you rather they just make it included in the regular hd package and bump that up to 15 dollars instead of 10? The way it stands now your bill can be smaller if you like.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

There is a 3 day trial period from what I understand. Your state may have laws protecting you beyond that if you can prove you've been defrauded. 

As far as the HD Extra Pack, there is plenty of discussion about that in our Programming forum.


----------



## badmonkey (Nov 18, 2005)

emailman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am a fairly new DirecTV user (6 weeks) with my new 47" Philips LCD. I am pleased with the picture, but I am very angry about the "new" HD tier and the $5 price. I left the cable company because of their pricing.
> 
> ...


Just curious... Are those few channels that important to you? I lost them on or about 12/15 and haven't even noticed. The only one I think I may miss is Smithsonian, but that's not worth $5 on its own.

I'm not saying they're not important to you, just that you have a choice. And the other 80+ HD channels more than make up for the few that they moved into the new tier - for me anyway.


----------



## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> There is a 3 day trial period from what I understand. Your state may have laws protecting you beyond that if you can prove you've been defrauded.
> 
> As far as the HD Extra Pack, there is plenty of discussion about that in our Programming forum.


There is a 3 day window to cancel without penalty. That is about it.


----------



## nhoJ (Jul 7, 2007)

I am always amazed when people will spend more than $1000 on a TV then complain about $5 a month.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

I don't have hd, but I really don't see what the problem is. Unless their prices have changed, it's cheaper than hd through dishnet even with the added $5 for the few extra channels. Just a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were still less than the price for hd through cable, too. And you get a heck of a lot more hd from directv than the others.


----------



## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

The lack of a trial period is one thing that almost kept me from DirecTv. I am very glad I took the jump and joined. Sadly some times you have to jump and take fate into your owe hands.


----------



## FireMedic8039 (Dec 24, 2007)

Newbie here,long time reader until I learned it all from you guys, HD for 5 years. Back to topic....It's only 5 bucks. Takes that much $ nowadays in gas to go get more gas. From what I have read. It isnt the $ people are upset aboit. It is the way DTV did the change. Correct me if I'm wrong......


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

FireMedic -- I think you are right that it is the way this was handled, more then the $5/month, which has most people upset. A lot of the comments on this board sound like people think DirecTV pulled a bait-and-switch on them.

But that doesn't mean that people aren't also upset about the $5 per month. It is part of a pattern of continual rate increases which cost people hundreds of dollars more every year.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

If you really want to cancel. I would suggest calling DirecTV and listening to what they have to say. Ask for a supervisor or the retention department.
Keep a log of all your communications with DirecTV.
If their offer is not satisfactory you should go to this link and follow the instructions for filing a consumer complaint: http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17331-42077--,00.html


----------



## roadrnnr (Nov 21, 2004)

Just curious,

I am signing up for D in a few days and wondering what increase you are talking about.

I am going to get the HDDVR plus package.

Does that include all the HD channells available or is there more you have to pay for?

Thanks


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

There's the HD Extra Pack. Those are the channels that don't have an SD counterpart. It's $4.99/month and currently includes HDNET Movies, MGM, MHD, UHD and Smithsonian.

Your package includes the HD Access Fee (normally 10 bucks) and gives you access to all the HD channels for which you've purchased the rights to the SD channel.

Make sense?


----------



## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

The three day rule varies from state to state. Here is some information for Michigan where the op is from:http://monroe.lib.mi.us/community_info_organizations_monroe_senior_legal.htm


----------



## jtb50 (Feb 10, 2006)

Welcome to the wonderful world of Directv nickel and diming you. After they say no price increase.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

jtb50 said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of Directv nickel and diming you. After they say no price increase.


Other than OTA, I've never seen any tv provider say no price increase.


----------



## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

No company is perfect, and DirecTV sure could have handled this better. Still, right now, for me at least, they are the best deal. 

Even thought I rarely watch the channels, I did sign up for the free three months, but I also added an alert to my calendar to drop them in March. There's just not much compelling programming on those channels to make them worth the extra $$$. I'm over the novelty of just watching anything just because it is in HD. Without recording a single thing from those channels, my DVR has about 6% left, and I don't have time to watch all the stuff I really want to see. 

In 18 months, I'll reevaluate my options. FiOS should be up in my neighborhood by then.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Other than OTA, I've never seen any tv provider say no price increase.


At their May 2007 investors' call, DTV execs said they did not expect any price increases with the addition of new HD channels during 2007. In June, DTV confirmed that there would be no price increase for the additional HD channels.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvprice062807.htm


----------



## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Other than OTA, I've never seen any tv provider say no price increase.


 "I think in terms of pricing, it is probably -- essentially, we've got a $10 price to the package and we don't have plans to change that. So from a pricing perspective, the addition of the channels is not going to change what we do today with the product." DIRECTV CEO Chase Carey.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Have you changed any personal finance plans in the last 9 months? If you did, were you lying when you spoke of them initially?

Plans change, now they've got some egg on their face. Some people want to believe it was all a big lie to trick them. It's hilarious.


----------



## emailman (Dec 24, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies! I did pay $1400 for the TV and want to get the best picture for it. It is the principal of it. $5 either way will not change my financial picture (Thank God!!). But the $5 here, the $5 there and it starts to add up. 

Brighthouse cable started moving channels up to the digital tier in order to push people towards the higher priced digital service (they deny this). I did not have any pay channels and no equipment, so I was paying ~$40 a month. For 4 tv's the move to digital would have doubled my cable costs. 

Right now I am going to keep what I have. Another question:

Using the words of the CEO of Directv, have many had success getting them to wave the increase??

Thanks and Merry Christmas!


----------



## DirecTV3049 (Sep 13, 2007)

Upstream said:


> At their May 2007 investors' call, DTV execs said they did not expect any price increases with the addition of new HD channels during 2007. In June, DTV confirmed that there would be no price increase for the additional HD channels.
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/directvprice062807.htm


Am I the only one who is amused when people cite the "investor's call" for being peeved over this $5 a month fee? It's just so funny/ironic on so many levels.

Like any other price increase either pay it (and get the extra channels) or don't (and go without).

For the record, I NEVER got notification from DirecTV about the "HD Extra" package - not a phone call, not an email, not a postcard nothing. But I knew about the change from being here. Does that suck? Yeah, but in my personal experience I can count the number of *bad* experiences I've had with DirecTV on two fingers . . . and I've been a customer for over 6 or 7 years. And both of those were with subcontractors on installs; not directly with DirecTV. I've ALWAYS found CSRs to be helpful and understanding. Any glitches in programming and billing are fixed right then and there. That ain't bad. So, I guess I'm cutting them some slack this time around.

I understand other people's mileage has varied with DirecTV, but that's how I see it from my little corner of the world.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

emailman said:


> Using the words of the CEO of Directv, have many had success getting them to wave the increase??


Yes, everyone. They are giving ANOTHER 3 months of it for free if you add it. You don't even need to use the words. Just try, "I understand I can have it free for the next three months...."

As I stated to you already, his words were "No plans..." and plans change. Just make your decision based on the landscape of what's available today.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

man_rob said:


> "I think in terms of pricing, it is probably -- essentially, we've got a $10 price to the package and we don't have plans to change that. So from a pricing perspective, the addition of the channels is not going to change what we do today with the product." DIRECTV CEO Chase Carey.


Thanks for finding the post that helps make my point. He didn't say, "We will never raise the price of our HD package," but said they didn't have any plans to raise the price AT THAT TIME.

Also, here is a quote from back in March that I, personally, find more reliable than tvpredictions.com. 



TigersFanJJ said:


> Once D* feels they have enough HD channels to justify the price increase to the average Joe, they will raise the price.


That quote still holds true. Once they feel they can justify another price increase, you can bet they will raise the rates again. The best thing you can do is enjoy the current prices (which, as I said earlier, are still cheaper than others with less content) while you can.


----------



## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

nhoJ said:


> I am always amazed when people will spend more than $1000 on a TV then complain about $5 a month.


maybe just a cable troll.:lol: :lol:


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Thanks for finding the post that helps make my point. He didn't say, "We will never raise the price of our HD package," but said they didn't have any plans to raise the price AT THAT TIME.
> 
> Also, here is a quote from back in March that I, personally, find more reliable than tvpredictions.com.
> 
> That quote still holds true. Once they feel they can justify another price increase, you can bet they will raise the rates again. The best thing you can do is enjoy the current prices (which, as I said earlier, are still cheaper than others with less content) while you can.


They have announced in the investor information that they are going to be increasing overall rates between 4 - 5% a year and more for the higher end packages.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

If they don't increase them, or increase them less than 4-5%, how many will come back here and call them liars for it?


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Based on the lack of anything worth watching lately - _*THANKS WRITERS STRIKE*_ - I may be lowering my DirecTV package to the bare bones soon! All the DVR records anymore are my Seinfeld reruns and my daughter's Disney channel reruns. I could load up on both over the next couple of weeks then just watch recordings for a few months . . .


----------



## hankmack (Feb 8, 2006)

emailman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am a fairly new DirecTV user (6 weeks) with my new 47" Philips LCD. I am pleased with the picture, but I am very angry about the "new" HD tier and the $5 price. I left the cable company because of their pricing.
> 
> ...


What is the new HD tier? I see nothing itemized on my monthly bill and I "think" we are getting all of the HD channels except HBO etc.


----------



## hankmack (Feb 8, 2006)

My monthly invoice has the following: Plus HD DVR 69.99, Lease fee 4.99, and Lease fee credit 4.99. No charge for HD tier, And not that I am complaing why the 4.99 credit. 

We have one HR20 and 1 TV. (Wife won't let me have another).


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

hankmack said:


> My monthly invoice has the following: Plus HD DVR 69.99, Lease fee 4.99, and Lease fee credit 4.99. No charge for HD tier, And not that I am complaing why the 4.99 credit.
> 
> We have one HR20 and 1 TV. (Wife won't let me have another).


Primary receiver is always included with the subscription. Only additional receivers incur the $4.99 lease or extra receiver (if it owned, not leased) fee. So that is why the credit is there.


----------



## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

nhoJ said:


> I am always amazed when people will spend more than $1000 on a TV then complain about $5 a month.


I have noticed, including myself, when one is amazed, they usually are unaware or lack understanding. :lol:


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Xaa said:


> If they don't increase them, or increase them less than 4-5%, how many will come back here and call them liars for it?


If they turned around and raised rates 20% next March, there will be some people who will call DirecTV liars, there will be some people who will make excuses for the increase and call it fair, and there will be some people who will wonder what is going on at DirecTV if they are making public proclamations of their plans and can't abide by them for a 6 month period.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

I think you're right Upstream. 

I would be in the third group of that, but answer the question as asked. Will those calling DirecTv liars today feel they were lied to if their plans to increase prices by 4-5% turned out to be 0%. Or is it only a lie if they don't like the result?


----------



## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

Xaa said:


> Or is it only a lie if they don't like the result?


You already know the answer to that one.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Upstream said:


> If they turned around and raised rates 20% next March, there will be some people who will call DirecTV liars, there will be some people who will make excuses for the increase and call it fair, and there will be some people who will wonder what is going on at DirecTV if they are making public proclamations of their plans and can't abide by them for a 6 month period.


If DIRECTV pulled a 20% price increase in March (and no one else did) I'd reduce to the most minimal package I could instantly. You really think people would justify such a unimaginable thing?


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Ratara said:


> You already know the answer to that one.


I do, I just wanted to squeeze the answer out. It wouldn't be a lie in that case any more than it's a lie now.


----------



## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

emailman said:


> ... have many had success getting them to wave the increase??!


There has not been an increase. There are 5 channels for which there is no SD counterpart. That is what costs $4.99. It is an Extra Package, hence its name: HD Extra. Just like there is a Choice and a Choice Extra package.

If you find these channels worth 17 cents per day, then go ahead and pay if not then don't.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

jwd45244 said:


> There has not been an increase. There are 5 channels for which there is no SD counterpart. That is what costs $4.99. It is an Extra Package, hence its name: HD Extra. Just like there is a Choice and a Choice Extra package.
> 
> If you find these channels worth 17 cents per day, then go ahead and pay if not then don't.


jwd,
Anytime you charge more for the same thing it's a price increase. To keep the same channels people had in July (HDNetMovies being the biggie) people will have to pay more. 
Whether what they did is right or wrong is another issue, but it is a price increase. I'm sure there would be much more moaning and groaning if it had been ESPN's channels pulled and put in a special tier.


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

And they want to charge me extra to watch HBO or Starz. Oh, the horror.:lol:


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Ken S said:


> jwd,
> Anytime you charge more for the same thing it's a price increase. To keep the same channels people had in July (HDNetMovies being the biggie) people will have to pay more.
> Whether what they did is right or wrong is another issue, but it is a price increase. I'm sure there would be much more moaning and groaning if it had been ESPN's channels pulled and put in a special tier.


That would be sweet if it were ESPN!

Yep, there's no getting around that it's an increase. It's optional if you're willing to let the channels go so in that way it's mildly preferable to simply adjusting the 10 buck access fee to 15 bucks, but it's a price increase for sure.


----------



## Jimbo2 (May 10, 2007)

jwd45244 said:


> There has not been an increase. There are 5 channels for which there is no SD counterpart. That is what costs $4.99. It is an Extra Package, hence its name: HD Extra. Just like there is a Choice and a Choice Extra package.
> 
> If you find these channels worth 17 cents per day, then go ahead and pay if not then don't.


I don't understand what the "No SD" Counterpart has to do with it, it seams strange.
Not sure why they didn't just wait till March and then make the HD Pack 14.99 up from 9.99 and say that that is to cover for all the new HD channels in the past several months, I doubt people would argue that $ 5 for the expansion of HD would be unreasonable, unless you had just signed up.

Jimbo


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

No SD counterpart means that there is no SD version of the channel and as such it doesn't exist in any of the choice packages for which the HD Access allows you to get the HD version of the SD channels to which you are subscribed. It's a methodology change that says you can have access to the channels in HD as long as your subscribed to it in SD and that access fee is 10 bucks. The other channels then that have no SD counterpart fall into the HD Extra Pack.

Hope that clears it up. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I understand how they are attempting to bring this to market.


----------



## DishCSR (Jan 14, 2004)

Xaa said:


> If they don't increase them, or increase them less than 4-5%, how many will come back here and call them liars for it?


roflmao


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> If DIRECTV pulled a 20% price increase in March (and no one else did) I'd reduce to the most minimal package I could instantly. You really think people would justify such a unimaginable thing?


In 2005, DirecTV raised the Total Choice Plus package by 15% from 2004 rates. Although a 20% increase in 2008 would be steep, from $55 to $66 per month, but it is hardly unimaginable.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Xaa said:


> I think you're right Upstream.
> 
> I would be in the third group of that, but answer the question as asked. Will those calling DirecTv liars today feel they were lied to if their plans to increase prices by 4-5% turned out to be 0%. Or is it only a lie if they don't like the result?


Xaa,

A great many people will be upset if they don't raise the prices....they're a group called the shareholders of DirecTV that have been promised revenue growth.


----------



## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Other than OTA, I've never seen any tv provider say no price increase.


That's not true.

DISH network's current promos are guaranteeing the monthly price for the DISH DVR Advantage package THROUGH 2009.

A local pest from Time-Warner Cable showed up at my door, and offered me their "three in one" package with home phone, high-speed internet, and expanded basic cable with one box for $90 per month with a TWO YEAR price guarantee offered ONLY to present satellite TV subscribers. This was in writing but, of course, I said no.

The point is, there ARE price guarantees out there for new subscribers.


----------



## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Xaa,
> 
> A great many people will be upset if they don't raise the prices....they're a group called the shareholders of DirecTV that have been promised revenue growth.


They must have been furious from 2000-2005 when DirecTV price increases were little to none depending on your package. But when Murdoch took over ZING went the price every year in March like clockwork.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

ThomasM said:


> They must have been furious from 2000-2005 when DirecTV price increases were little to none depending on your package. But when Murdoch took over ZING went the price every year in March like clockwork.


They weren't happy they had made huge investments in the company and weren't getting paid back so they dumped the company. First GM/Hughes tried selling out to Dish. When that didn't work GM sold their stake to Murdoch.

Subscribers might not like it, but the owners want to make more and more money each year. They want the stock price to go up, they want dividends at some point.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Xaa,
> 
> A great many people will be upset if they don't raise the prices....they're a group called the shareholders of DirecTV that have been promised revenue growth.


Ah yes, the true customers indeed.

Let us never forget that enhancing shareholder value is the number one goal and should be.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Ken S said:


> the owners want to make more and more money each year. They want the stock price to go up, they want dividends at some point.


That is achieved through a balance of raising prices, increasing volume, and controlling costs.

DirecTV has done a pretty good job of increasing volume, both by increasing the number of subscribers, and by offering subscribers new things to buy (like HD, DVR service, etc.). And they have been able to attract early adopters, willing to pay a premium for services not widely available. Where they may run into a problem, is in the future when things like HD move from "delighter" to "must-be", will DirecTV be able to maintain a premium price.


----------



## max1 (Aug 12, 2005)

Actually you can canel the service anytime. Just because they say 2 years doesn't mean you have to stay with them. You would have to pay a cancel fee. They usually just send you a final bill. I have had D once before and did this as well. I now have D and am not liking it as much as I thought. The Dvr is not that great and the guide is pretty crappy. Am thinking about switch to cable now that they are upgraded here in our area. The HD Extra pack is pretty lame these channels have been a disappointment Smithsonian is junk.. Max.


----------



## rossgs (Dec 23, 2006)

No one should pay for these channels. Everyone should go through their bills and see if they can't reduce somewhere. This is the tip of the iceberg. If they can jam this through then everytime they add channels, they are going to add a "small" surcharge for that channel.


----------



## Simpleton24 (Sep 14, 2007)

max1 said:


> The HD Extra pack is pretty lame these channels have been a disappointment Smithsonian is junk.. Max.


Thats just it, you don't like what is offered in the 
hd extra pack, so you don't have to pay for it. You just saved $5.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

rossgs said:


> No one should pay for these channels. Everyone should go through their bills and see if they can't reduce somewhere. This is the tip of the iceberg. If they can jam this through then everytime they add channels, they are going to add a "small" surcharge for that channel.


Thanks for the advice, but I think I'll choose for myself where I get value and where I don't. The market will decide if we all choose individually.


----------



## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> That's not true.
> 
> DISH network's current promos are guaranteeing the monthly price for the DISH DVR Advantage package THROUGH 2009.
> 
> ...


Yes, but that introductory price will go away and eventually the prices will increase.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

nhoJ said:


> I am always amazed when people will spend more than $1000 on a TV then complain about $5 a month.





Simpleton24 said:


> Thats just it, you don't like what is offered in the
> hd extra pack, so you don't have to pay for it. You just saved $5.


A nickel here, a dime there, 17cents somewhere else per day. Pretty soon I'm nickel and dimed to the point Where I look in my wallet and moths fly out. No money however.

I'm not poor but I still had to wait til a HD set became affordable last year. I believe between the 32" HDTV, THe surround sound system, the HD DVR I blew $1500. That's my entertainmant budget for several years.

I'm getting ready to drop the Movie chanels... HBO, Cinemax etc. Drop my backup DSL feed to a lower speed and price now that the cable modem has proved reliable. Cut back my Netflix subscription, Eliminate Extras on the Phone company bill. My choice is High speed internet or premium movie channels, guess what I choose to keep. the movie channels = many repeats, movies older than AMC, TCM & FMC show.....

I seem to be going the same route I went with cable years ago.
I had everything, They raised the rates I lowered what I was subb'd to. Oh well....


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Here's my take on this (flamers - fire up your flame throwers! ):

The past several months have seen a SIGNIFICANT change in the HD landscape for DirecTV. It sure looks to me like what they are doing now is positioning themselves for the future expansion of HD offerings that may become available to them. They certainly may have been able to communicate it much better, but at this point, it is what it is. For those that feel this is "the tip of the iceberg" and DirecTV is launching into an era of 'bait-and-switch' or some such crapola, what I will say will certainly not change your mind and God Bless that you are fully entitled to feel the way you do and to express that.

As I said, the whole HD landscape has changed significantly. What I have seen from DirecTV is that they decided to market things going forward by instituting an HD Access fee by which, if a channel that exists in the package to which you subscribe has an associated HD broadcast, you will also receive that HD broadcast. That's the current $9.99 fee, which is also included in one (or some?) of their packages.

Aside from that there currently exist some channels that are not just HD counterparts of an already existing (up to this point) SD channel, but are pretty much designed on their own to be HD broadcast channels. DirecTV created a separate package that contains those such channels (Smithsonian, MGMHD, etc.). I suspect there is a pretty good chance that as HD evolves that there could be more of these types of channels rolling out in the future that would also be added to this HD Extra Pack. [As we are seeing with HDNet there will likely be a few exceptions that people will insist on DirecTV trying to finely (not 'finally', but 'finely') define to THEIR (those people's) satisfaction or feel that DirecTV is 'screwing them again!', but for me these are just 'business is business and I'll deal with it' exceptions based on contracts/agreements. etc. that it is none of my business knowing about.]

DirecTV has now positioned themselves with a base from which to build on as HD expands. They had to do this at some point, and to me it makes sense to do it as things are "being birthed". Running things all into the one HD Access add-on for months or years to come and THEN trying to split things out would cause a WHOLE LOT more trouble than what is happening now. I see us in a transition period that is necessary given what is going on now. I do not see this as DirecTV expanding to a cable-esque 'nickel and dime people for the sake of squeezing out every last penny' thing. I see this as setting the base for a pretty logical way of handling the expansion of HD that is evolving now.

And if anyone IS taking a poll, add me to the "I'd rather they leave the HD Access Fee at $9.99 a month and give me the choice as to whether the HD Extra Pack is worth an additional $4.99 a month TO ME to subscribe to rather than just automatically charging me an extra $4.99 for a bunch of channels that I really may not watch anyway" list of respondents. They could jack my package price $13.99 a month and then include HBO in it, thus forcing me to subscribe to HBO, but I much prefer actually having the choice of subscribing to it or not - I see this the same way. As for them 'taking way channels that I used to get', I see that being a circumstance of the overall change of the HD landscape and them realigning their offerings and will deal with that as such - I don't see it as them stealing from me or trying to screw me.

Let the flaming begin!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

nhoJ said:


> I am always amazed when people will spend more than $1000 on a TV then complain about $5 a month.


I was going to say that too. I wonder what programs are in that pack? Wish Stu would have included a link. I'll look it up.

Cancelling over a $5 bump that's optional is rather draconian, don't you think?

Merry Xmas,
Rich


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

nhoJ said:


> I am always amazed when people will spend more than $1000 on a TV then complain about $5 a month.


They spend $30,000 on a car and complain about $3 for a gallon of gas. What's your point? Perhaps they waited three years before buying that TV to save money? Maybe they got a lesser brand to fit their budget. Intelligent people on a budget evaluate every expenditure...especially repeating expenses as, over time, they become significant.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Upstream said:


> That is achieved through a balance of raising prices, increasing volume, and controlling costs.
> 
> DirecTV has done a pretty good job of increasing volume, both by increasing the number of subscribers, and by offering subscribers new things to buy (like HD, DVR service, etc.). And they have been able to attract early adopters, willing to pay a premium for services not widely available. Where they may run into a problem, is in the future when things like HD move from "delighter" to "must-be", will DirecTV be able to maintain a premium price.


I agree. DirecTV runs a pretty tight ship from a SG&A perspective. Their big costs are Subscriber Acquisition/Conversion, but they are biting the bullet there to get people to higher monthly payments.

They are fighting churn by doing credit checks and insisting on credit cards for payment along with the two-year commitments.

But if they can increase ARPU $5/month times 16,000,000 customers...that adds up to a few dollars ($80 million a month or almost a billion a year) that becomes the easiest way to make the street happy.

Many here claim that DirecTV is still less expensive than the cable services they are competing with. To some that's money DirecTV is leaving on the table.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

IMHO if they feel they have to have a 2 year commitment they should have a 30 day window to cancel.

The 2 year commitment thing feels like one of two things to me, 1 We need to keep our churn down by making it expensive to quit, 2. Making the stockholders happy vs keeping subs happy. Or as a third thing we don't feel our prioduct is good enough to keep you. 

I know I never needed a commitment to make me keep anything I liked. OTOH it has kept me from things such as cell phone service. 

Anybody pay bills online and gotten the hidden marketing surveys disguised as security questions? 
Such as What's your hobby, Favorite car, food etc.?


----------



## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

jwd45244 said:


> There has not been an increase. There are 5 channels for which there is no SD counterpart. That is what costs $4.99. It is an Extra Package, hence its name: HD Extra. Just like there is a Choice and a Choice Extra package.
> 
> If you find these channels worth 17 cents per day, then go ahead and pay if not then don't.


*Unless you already had the channels, if you did, there is a forced price increase in order to keep them.*


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

wavemaster said:


> *Unless you already had the channels, if you did, there is a forced price increase in order to keep them.*


Yes, unfortunately there is a price increase due to hit about the time of the normal price increase. Happens every year, roughly in March. Dish will have one as will all the cable companies.

The race is always who will raise the "right" amount to not lose customers or attract new ones.

Merry Christmas!
Tom


----------



## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

Tom, several times in another thread you kept saying you will get it (HD extra pack) free until the price increase? ...They didn't lie because it doesn't cost anything until the price increase etc....

Do you know what the increases will be?

Will the price changes effect anything HD?

Other or new packages?

My point being is you say they didn't lie because you can get it free until March which is when they NORMALLY have price adjustments, well what do any of us know what will come in March? Maybe for me, it will only be 3-5% for premier with no other adjustments?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JLucPicard said:


> Here's my take on this (flamers - fire up your flame throwers! ):Let the flaming begin!


First post of yours I've seen in ages! Everything OK, I hope. Glad to see you back.

I read that monstrosity (you must feel 10 Lbs lighter) you got off your chest twice and I think I agree with you. I would rather have more channels and I'm gonna keep getting every package and channel that I can justify to myself, for instance, I'm not going to get hockey channels just because they are available. But channels like UHD and HDNET are certainly worth the extra money. They always have 3 or 4 movies a week that I record. That's worth $6.00 a month.

I have every movie package and I only watch Hi Def anymore and I think the price of those packages should be adjusted. SD is going to be supported for years. MPEG2 is going to be supported for years. Eventually, HD will be the only choice, but that will take years and I am paying for channels I don't use. I think. Someone is bound to disagree with me.

To me, life is like beer. If I want a beer, I don't want a lite beer, I want the real thing, the whole beer. I want the whole package of shows that I could possibly find something on to record. I would like to be able to choose the channels individually, but I realize the al a carte model will never be used.

Ahh, you made me do an overly long post. Anyhow, what's a few bucks more a month for a great service?

Merry Xmas,
Rich


----------



## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

And to the OP, you can easily fight this, do a charge-back and send D* back their gear. CC companies are VERY reliable when it comes to misleading, fraudulent, bait & switch etc. tactics.

I broke out of cell contract after 3 months for the same reason and Verizon didn't have a leg to stand on. Even with all their fineprint (it seems like Verizon wrote the "fine print" playbook).

You can PM me if you want and I can give you all kinds of things to mention in regards to being misled.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Many here claim that DirecTV is still less expensive than the cable services they are competing with. To some that's money DirecTV is leaving on the table.


I live in the NYC Metro area and D* is by far the cheapest provider. I called Dish, FIOS and Cablevision (one of the area's cable providers) and told them that I have 11 dual tuner DVRs running. Asked them to include their premium packages for programming in their estimate. None of them could compete with what I pay a month for D*'s service.

The Dish DVR costs nearly $600. Cablevision said flat out that they could not provide that many tuners at D*s price. FIOS, a lot of double talk every time I call. Simple math. D* is the best bang for your buck.


----------



## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

Xaa said:


> Ah yes, the true customers indeed.
> 
> Let us never forget that enhancing shareholder value is the number one goal and should be.


Not really. Without appeasing the customers, there would be no company and thus no shareholder value. More often than not companies forget that the customers are #1 and if you keep them happy the shareholder value will come naturally. Think Apple vs Dell. Apple has appeased their fiercely loyal customers and their shareholder value has insanely gone up in the past 4 years. Dell has taken the approach of selling at fire sale prices and not really satisfying their customers. Their share price is in the dumper and Mike Dell is now trying to right a sinking ship (albeit a slowly sinking ship).

The true shareholder value is to continue to be an entity and deliver a good return on investment. Yet many companies become obsessed with shareholder value in the short term and forget that long term is always more valuable to shareholders...


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

itguy05 said:


> The true shareholder value is to continue to be an entity and deliver a good return on investment. Yet many companies become obsessed with shareholder value in the short term and forget that long term is always more valuable to shareholders...


Unfortunately, the analysts and buyers evaluate many things on a quarterly basis. It's very hard to execute a long-term plan without also showing quantifiable short term gains. It stinks.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Many here claim that DirecTV is still less expensive than the cable services they are competing with. To some that's money DirecTV is leaving on the table.


I think DirecTV has pushed the limit of price difference over cable.

When I first got DirecTV, it was much cheaper than my local cable company (about $15 per month cheaper).

But DirecTV has raised their rates faster than my local cable company (which recently became Comcast). Today there is much less of a price difference.

I've compared the cost to upgrading to HD with DirecTV, versus switching to Comcast. Because DirecTV and Comcast structure their rates differently, the price difference between the two providers is heavily dependent on the number and type of recievers you have, and which programming packages you choose.

For the HD receivers and HD programming I would select, DirecTV is about $4 per month less than Comcast (this is without the extra HD tier). But with DirecTV I also need to pay upfront for an HD DVR, for which DirecTV is currently asking $299 + $20. It would take years for the monthly price savings from DirecTV to pay off the initial price of the receiver. If I have multiple HD DVRs, their is a greater difference in the monthly price for DirecTV versus Comcast, but my upfront receiver price is correspondingly higher.

For me, DirecTV only becomes price competitive if I get significant discounts on the HD DVRs I would lease from DirecTV. Otherwise Comcast offers lower total cost.

Obviously different cable companies have different pricing structures in different areas, where DirecTV has the same price nationwide. But if DirecTV is more expensive than Comcast in New Jersey, it is hard to claim that DirecTV is leaving money on the table.


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

I have never done a pure "price" comparison between my local Comcast and DirecTV (though browsing Comcast's price structure doesn't lend me to think at all that they would be a better bargain) but I know I could get the generic brand Bleu Cheese Salad Dressing cheaper than say, Jimmy's Bleu Cheese Salad Dressing. I do know from experience that I MUCH prefer the taste of Jimmy's so whether it's a little more or less or the same price-wise, I'm sticking to Jimmy's - I just prefer it over the other brand!


----------



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> . . . And if anyone IS taking a poll, add me to the "I'd rather they leave the HD Access Fee at $9.99 a month and give me the choice as to whether the HD Extra Pack is worth an additional $4.99 a month TO ME to subscribe to rather than just automatically charging me an extra $4.99 for a bunch of channels that I really may not watch anyway" list of respondents . . .


I 100% agree with that statement / sentiment! Add me to the same category!

I was with DISH Net from the start of their HD Programming. They started out with a $10 charge for Voom, HDNet, HDNetMovies, DiscoveryHDTheatre and a few select national HD Channels (ESPN, HBO, TNT, maybe 2 or 3 more). They started out charging and extra $10 for the HD Pack. Around the time the MPEG4 Channels were launched, they raised the price to $15. Right before I switched to DirecTV they raised it $20. They did add channels as they went, but I was not given an option of what I wanted. I'd rather see an ala-carte option like DirecTV is offering.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

JLuc --

Yep. Price is only one part of the value proposition offered by a product or service.

Many consumer product companies do a lot of research to see what premium they can get for their products. So you like Jimmy's Bleu Cheese Salad Dressing a lot more than Steve's Blue Cheese Dressing. And Jimmy's knows that they can sell their dressing for $3.49 when Steve's sells for $2.69. 

Same thing with DirecTV and cable. 

Many years ago, DirecTV positioned themselves as a low-priced alternative to cable. They needed to be lower price because people were unsure of the technology, couldn't get local channels, and needed an incentive to change.

Today DirecTV has repositioned their product. The technology is fairly well proven. There are no major limitations versus cable (at least for most people). And DirecTV offers some things that cable doesn't or can't. So now DirecTV no longer has to offer a discount versus cable.


----------



## SatNoob (Aug 16, 2007)

Sheep.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

^^ ????


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

The real issue for me isn't the $5 additional for the tier. It is the fact that they introduced a new package. Package prices go up at a fairly normal rate. By making it two packages instead of one, they can increase the rates on both packages instead of just one.

For instance, adding $2 to the HD Access pack may have been as high as they feel they can go in the spring. But with HD Extra and HD Access, DirecTV might be able to push for $2 on each. They didn't just raise the price by $5 on Dec 15, they added an additional package that can be subject to future price increases.


----------



## JBernardK (Aug 16, 2006)

Comcast has an ad in today's Washington Post that says among other things:

No extra fee for HD

Twice the number of available HD programs than Direct TV (they count on demand)

All local channels in HD

It looks like the numbers game and HD hype will heat up in the coming year.


----------



## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

jwd45244 said:


> There has not been an increase. There are 5 channels for which there is no SD counterpart. That is what costs $4.99. It is an Extra Package, hence its name: HD Extra. Just like there is a Choice and a Choice Extra package.
> 
> If you find these channels worth 17 cents per day, then go ahead and pay if not then don't.


I think the issue that most people have, me included, is that we paid 9.95 a month for basically those channels only and not the 70+ we started getting a few months ago. So for a long time we paid a lot of money (relatively speaking) for those few channels. Now that DirecTv has 70+ HD they have taken the channels we used to get before and put them in a separate pack and charged for them. Do I think 15 a month for all is too much - definately not. It is the way in which it was done that bothered people. They could have just waited until the March normal price increase time and said HD with 100+ is now costing 20/month vs. the 10 you used to pay for 10 channels - people probably would have complained but understood.


----------



## laurie_lu (Dec 2, 2007)

JBernardK said:


> It looks like the numbers game and HD hype will heat up in the coming year.


Competition is good.


----------



## Elephanthead (Feb 3, 2007)

You agree to a two year comitment, you agree to whatever they feel like doing. I got the breakup fee included as a discount to over 6 months when I signed up, I suggest you do the same so you can cancel anytime, you as a consumer have the power to intiate the transaction not DTV, if you don't like what they are selling don't buy it. I personally think they are scumbags, which is why I got the breakup fee discount before I would agree to service. Drop your subscription to the lowest level and send back all but one receiver. Then call their customer service everyday to complain until you cost them so much they agree to cancel your service with no breakup fee.


----------



## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

laurie_lu said:


> Competition is good.


well 2009 is approaching


----------



## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

Upstream said:


> But with DirecTV I also need to pay upfront for an HD DVR, for which DirecTV is currently asking $299 + $20. It would take years for the monthly price savings from DirecTV to pay off the initial price of the receiver. If I have multiple HD DVRs, their is a greater difference in the monthly price for DirecTV versus Comcast, but my upfront receiver price is correspondingly higher.
> 
> For me, DirecTV only becomes price competitive if I get significant discounts on the HD DVRs I would lease from DirecTV. Otherwise Comcast offers lower total cost.


That's true only if you look at the cost of hardware. First, the HR series is pretty much $199 even though they claim $299. Second, Comcast charges $16.95 per month for their HD DVR while DirevTV is $5.99 per month.

If you run the numbers - without any price increases on Comcast which is unlikely (we've had 2 this year alone), after around month 24, DirecTV comes out ahead when taking into account the $199 initial outlay.

Not to mention I get more in HD than our Comcast system can even dream of.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

itguy --

I've run the numbers ... taking into account all the costs, including hardware, programming fees, DVR service fees, discounts, etc. 

For my desired set-up, the monthly recurring cost for DirecTV is about $4 per month less than Comcast. 

The up-front price for an HR20/21 for me is $299+$20. DirecTV has quoted this price to me several times when I asked about upgrading. I suppose I could get a discount if I threatened to cancel; but I won't make that threat unless I am actually planning on cancelling.

But even if I got an HR20/21 for $199, it would take about 4 years for DirecTV's total cost of ownership to equal Comcast with a monthly price difference of about $4. (It would actually take longer, since I would qualify for a bunch of new customer discounts with Comcast, reducing their total cost.)

I didn't take price increases into the comparison, because I have no way of knowing how much DirecTV and Comcast will increase their prices. (But over the past three years, DirecTV has raised their prices much faster than Comcast.) 

There may be a bunch of reasons to stay with DirecTV versus switching to Comcast. But lower price is not one of them.


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=113770


----------



## MarkN (Jul 13, 2007)

emailman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am a fairly new DirecTV user (6 weeks) with my new 47" Philips LCD. I am pleased with the picture, but I am very angry about the "new" HD tier and the $5 price. I left the cable company because of their pricing.
> 
> ...


is it really worth cancelling over $4.99???


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

Upstream said:


> itguy --
> 
> There may be a bunch of reasons to stay with DirecTV versus switching to Comcast. But lower price is not one of them.


That one really is market dependent. DirecTv's service is essentially universal from market to market. not so for Comcast or cable Tv in general. In many markets it's a slam dunk on price as well.


----------



## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

Upstream said:


> The up-front price for an HR20/21 for me is $299+$20. DirecTV has quoted this price to me several times when I asked about upgrading. I suppose I could get a discount if I threatened to cancel; but I won't make that threat unless I am actually planning on cancelling.
> 
> But even if I got an HR20/21 for $199, it would take about 4 years for DirecTV's total cost of ownership to equal Comcast with a monthly price difference of about $4. (It would actually take longer, since I would qualify for a bunch of new customer discounts with Comcast, reducing their total cost.)


Comcast = $16.99 * 24 = $407.76
DTV = $199 + ($5.99 * 24) = $342.76

So I was wrong - it's even less time than Comcast. At $299, it wouldn't make sense, but I'm surprised that they won't let you have the cheaper price.



> I didn't take price increases into the comparison, because I have no way of knowing how much DirecTV and Comcast will increase their prices. (But over the past three years, DirecTV has raised their prices much faster than Comcast.)


I doubt that. I was with DirecTV from 2002-2005 and found some old bills. The price I paid back for the base package (larger package of channels + locals + Tivo) was a little cheaper than what I pay now for the HD-DVR package if you subtract the $9.99 fee.

You can see the screwing I get by going to comcast.com and use zip 17011.

I do agree that it seems DirevTV is nickel and diming us, but even adding those nickels and dimes up, it's a little cheaper than Comcast. $10/mo in my case which can mean I can add a premium.


----------



## F1 Fan (Aug 28, 2007)

emailman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am a fairly new DirecTV user (6 weeks) with my new 47" Philips LCD. I am pleased with the picture, but I am very angry about the "new" HD tier and the $5 price. I left the cable company because of their pricing.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I am confused over your post.

You say that you have been with Directv for more than 30 days but less than 60 days and are angry with this new package.

But this so called new package is over 90 days old. So was around before you joined.

I dont see what you are complaining about?


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

IT --

Comcast prices are a bit higher in your area. They may be keeping them down in my area because of Fios competition.


But you can't just look at the hardware prices. The $16.95 HD-DVR fee for Comcast includes the HD service fee. You need to look at the total cost of the service. 

In your area, the total monthly price of DirecTV Choice plus HD with one DVR receiver is about $15 less than the comparable Comcast package. (Let's ignore the $277 discount which Comcast provides new customers.) So even with a $299 upfront fee for DirecTV's HR20/21, you break even in 20 months. But in my area, Comcast's prices are lower, so the monthly difference is only about $4, so it will take me a lot longer to break even on upfront fee for the HR20/21.


Regarding your comment on DirecTV price increases: In 2003, the price for DirecTV's Total Choice Plus/Xtra package was $37.99 per month. Today, it is $54.99 per month, a 44% increase in 4 years.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I did the math for my area. With the number of DVRs I have, the price difference between Comcast and DIRECTV for their top tier of programming with all the HD would pay the upfront cost for a new DIRECTV DVR every three months! Yes, Comcast would cost me $100/month more. (First I was astonished they'd let me have 9 DVRs, second that the price difference was that high. I'll stick with DIRECTV. 

And far, far more HD channels with DIRECTV here. Comcast hasn't begun to add much HD yet.

Happy Holidays!
Tom


----------



## jtb50 (Feb 10, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> I did the math for my area. With the number of DVRs I have, the price difference between Comcast and DIRECTV for their top tier of programming with all the HD would pay the upfront cost for a new DIRECTV DVR every three months! Yes, Comcast would cost me $100/month more. (First I was astonished they'd let me have 9 DVRs, second that the price difference was that high. I'll stick with DIRECTV.
> 
> And far, far more HD channels with DIRECTV here. Comcast hasn't begun to add much HD yet.
> 
> ...


Of course you'll stay with DTV. Your a moderator in the DTV forum.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

jtb50 said:


> Of course you'll stay with DTV. Your a moderator in the DTV forum.


You mean the $100 a month difference isn't a good enough reason? 

If I switched, I'd have to find (or more likely start) a Comcast forum... (Now that I think about it, I bet we have one in our sister site, AVSForums.)

And being a moderator only means I help out lots of DIRECTV people who often become internet friends in a fashion. That is why I do this. 

As we've all said, the moderators get no pay and no discount on DIRECTV service. We do it for the great members here.

Happy Holidays!
Tom


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> I did the math for my area. With the number of DVRs I have, the price difference between Comcast and DIRECTV for their top tier of programming with all the HD would pay the upfront cost for a new DIRECTV DVR every three months! Yes, Comcast would cost me $100/month more. (First I was astonished they'd let me have 9 DVRs, second that the price difference was that high. I'll stick with DIRECTV.
> 
> And far, far more HD channels with DIRECTV here. Comcast hasn't begun to add much HD yet.
> 
> ...


9 DVR receivers, at three months per receiver, means that you would take 27 months to break even. About the same as ITguy in Harrisburg.

The monthly price difference between Comcast and DirecTV is dependent on where you live, the type of programming you subscribe to, and the number and type of receivers you get. At $11.95 for each extra Comcast DVR, versus $5.99 for each extra DirecTV DVR, adding receivers widens the gap between Comcast and DirecTV.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

And that assumes I pay full lease cost for the 9 DVRs. Most people (myself included) did not. 

Now, I didn't bother to compare the non-HD premium offerings. 

Happy Holidays!
Tom


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

emailman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I am a fairly new DirecTV user (6 weeks) with my new 47" Philips LCD. I am pleased with the picture, but I am very angry about the "new" HD tier and the $5 price. I left the cable company because of their pricing.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the Surcharge Co:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> Welcome to the Surcharge Co:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


2 post from the poster must have gotten real mad or just a cable troll


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> And that assumes I pay full lease cost for the 9 DVRs. Most people (myself included) did not.
> 
> Now, I didn't bother to compare the non-HD premium offerings.
> 
> ...


Sure. If DirecTV offers discounts then their price is lower.

But I still think that DirecTV is positioning themselves based on differentiating their product, not as a low-cost alternative to cable.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I finally got around to calling Cablevision (cable provider) and checked their price structure. I pay about $50 a month for each mirrored DVR. I have 11 in total on my account. First, Cablevision stated that they would not give me that many DVRs and that each DVR would cost over $16 apiece. So if they were to allow me to have 11 DVRs, the cost would be over $176 monthly. That's just for equipment. I have the premium package with D* and would pay well over the roughly $200 a month I now pay for D* (cost varies because of PPV each month). Don't see how you can beat D* for cost. And I went across the street and watched several shows on Cablevision in HD and don't think the picture quality is as good as D*s. I realize that is subjective, but I had cable from 1980 to 2002 and I was always complaining about the PQ.

So, I guess D* is Jimmy's and Cablevision is the generic. I'll stick with Jimmy's too.

I try and try to appreciate bleu cheese and can't. Those blue spots are horrible.

Rich



JLucPicard said:


> I have never done a pure "price" comparison between my local Comcast and DirecTV (though browsing Comcast's price structure doesn't lend me to think at all that they would be a better bargain) but I know I could get the generic brand Bleu Cheese Salad Dressing cheaper than say, Jimmy's Bleu Cheese Salad Dressing. I do know from experience that I MUCH prefer the taste of Jimmy's so whether it's a little more or less or the same price-wise, I'm sticking to Jimmy's - I just prefer it over the other brand!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> And that assumes I pay full lease cost for the 9 DVRs. Most people (myself included) did not.
> 
> Now, I didn't bother to compare the non-HD premium offerings.
> 
> ...


I paid a total of about $320 for all five of my HR20s. Thats a little more than $60 apiece. Dish wants almost $600 for ONE HD DVR.


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Glad I had no beverage in my mouth when I read your post!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JLucPicard said:


> Glad I had no beverage in my mouth when I read your post!


Which one?


----------



## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Which one?


#104 - with the Jimmy's references. Loved how you worked that in! :lol:

Bleu cheese is my friend (ok, not LITERALLY!).


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

I dip bagels in bleu cheese dressing. Only the good stuff though.


----------



## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

bleu cheese = instant gag reflex for me.

The only thing we tend to be snobs about in our house is the quality of steak we buy


----------



## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

what amuses me are the widespread calls for a-la-carte, followed promptly by loud moans for any service that isn't included in one lump sum.

fortunately, they can all be filed in the same drawer..."I should not have to pay for something..."


----------



## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

Upstream said:


> JLuc --
> 
> Yep. Price is only one part of the value proposition offered by a product or service.
> 
> ...


If D* had kept the model of "buy your equipment, and pay to get it put in, maintain it yourself, and we'll send signals from space" with minimal custoemr support/service, they would be far cheaper, but not really, because that model discourages anyone without a streak of good-ol-American do-it-yourself running through them, and so eliminates a load of potential customers.

If install dates are 6 weeks out, as other threads state, I'm betting they're not going to suddenly open up the floodgates by giving stuff away.

When you cannot keep product on the shelf, and cannot get enough delivery trucks to keep your store in stock...you do not begin marking prices down.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

okietekkie said:


> bleu cheese = instant gag reflex for me.


I can eat it on hamburgers or something like that. But on a salad, looking at those blue spots, knowing what they are, yuk. Even rattlesnake meat is easier to get down. And chocolate coated insects are actually pretty good. I've eaten frog legs and iguana on a stick and enjoyed both, but those bleu spots...

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ext 721 said:


> minimal customer support/service


I have seen very little change in customer support or service. Was bad, still is.



> If install dates are 6 weeks out, as other threads state, I'm betting they're not going to suddenly open up the floodgates by giving stuff away.
> 
> When you cannot keep product on the shelf, and cannot get enough delivery trucks to keep your store in stock...you do not begin marking prices down.


The HR21s are not flying off the shelves in the two Costcos I go to. If you subscribe to the Protection Plan you get much quicker service and faster replacements/new DVRs. They've got them.

What they don't have is a way to do a new install quickly because they don't have enough people to do them. And their turnover rate is high.

If the installer takes his time and does the install properly and does the needed wiring properly, that is at least a 3 hour job. Two jobs a day. Maybe three. Against how many desired installs? And you have to have some people out there solving problems on installed systems. Lotta man hours. Not that many men.

I've never waited more than a week for an install or service call.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Xaa said:


> I dip bagels in bleu cheese dressing. Only the good stuff though.


And yet, if you picked up a bagel and it had blue mold spots on it, you would throw it away. Unless...:icon_kiff

You gotta love my little friend :icon_kiff.

Rich


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Hey!:backtotop Before I:barf: :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ext 721 said:


> what amuses me are the widespread calls for a-la-carte, followed promptly by loud moans for any service that isn't included in one lump sum.
> 
> fortunately, they can all be filed in the same drawer..."I should not have to pay for something..."


I think a combination of packages and a la carte choices would work. As long as the pricing benefits us and D* in some way that I can't imagine.

I watch only Hi Def programming for the most part and paying for the ShowTime package includes Encore and they are not in HD. So I don't watch Encore. Can't just buy ShowTime programming by itself. I'd rather have Encore in HD, but not if it is only in SD. That's the kind of situation they could address.

Right now, I doubt that D* is technologically ready for a la carte. It takes at least a half an hour to an hour on the phone just for me to deactivate a DVR and activate it's replacement. One end of their business is outrunning another part of their business, don't you think?

Although the regional sports channels are a la carte, aren't they? Confusing, it is... :icon_kiff

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> Hey!:backtotop Before I:barf: :lol:


OK, but first, what is the significance of the "K" in Kalifornia? :icon_kiff.

Rich


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

rich584 said:


> OK, but first, what is the significance of the "K" in Kalifornia? :icon_kiff.
> 
> Rich


You know our Governor Arnold?.That's how he says it.:lol:


----------



## bwclark (Nov 10, 2005)

I was online putting together a pre-sales monthly total for the Plus HD DVR package and came up with the bill as shown. I will not be using the premium channels so those are not an issue.

I see a monthly bill of about $72. What is the $5 surcharge that is being referenced?

Cable Guy


----------



## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

in your example, the 5 dollar fee is for the second non-HD receiver. unlike cable, DTV charges 5 bucks lease fee for each box receiving programming in your house. (or programming fee if you own the box, whatever its still 5 bucks and semantics)(yes i know cable also charges a lease fee for a box...but there is much programming on cable you can receive free without a box with a clear QAM tuner on a HDTV, along with all analog channels).

the first 5 dollar fee for the first box is included in the package price. all additional receivers, whether HD or non-HD, DVR or non-DVR are 5 bucks each per month...plus tax of course.

and just so you know, youll have to pay a couple bucks for the movie channels for 3 months. they say its "free" for 3 months but they lie, because they still charge you tax on the full amount, and dont credit any back, so its actually a 42 dollar rebate each month for 3 months, NOT movie channels FREE for 3 months.


----------



## bwclark (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks for the clarification. I currently pay $92/mo for cable that includes....9 HD channels, but I do get the locals. :eek2: 

So, the $72+ would be welcome plus the increase in the HD programming. But I am unable to get the locals except thru an antenna (digital trans avail) or basic analog cable for 12 channels of locals at $15/mo. :eek2: 

Waiting for a potential "OTA solution" for the HR21 and when available...I'm there.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

DirecTv doesn't charge the tax, they collect it for your state government.


----------



## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

Xaa said:


> DirecTv doesn't charge the tax, they collect it for your state government.


i like you xaa..you are so contrary and sarcastic you remind me of me...lol...i like it...anyway, they charge you the tax, they just pass it on to the state. as far as my post, the point was that the movie channels are not '"free" for 3 months they are "instantly rebated" for 3 months....anytime you get a rebate, the tax is charged on the full amount then money is provided back.


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

I hear ya dtrell and I'll take the first sentance as a compliment.


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I think a combination of packages and a la carte choices would work. As long as the pricing benefits us and D* in some way that I can't imagine.
> 
> I watch only Hi Def programming for the most part and paying for the ShowTime package includes Encore and they are not in HD. So I don't watch Encore. Can't just buy ShowTime programming by itself. I'd rather have Encore in HD, but not if it is only in SD. That's the kind of situation they could address.
> 
> ...


IMHO of course, if the movie or show isn't worth watching in SD it won't be worth watching in HD. HD doesn't perform any magic to turn a turkey into Filet Mignon. I hefty percentage of my watching is in SD since that is how what I want to watch is available. Now if it were available in both SD & HD then I'd watch the HD version. If FMC, TMC, IFC and such were in glorious HD with not stretch-o-vision  on the 4:3 movies then that would be great. On the other hand the only way I can tolerate watching a stretch-o-vision  on TNT for example is not to watch it in HD and watch it in SD instead. Oh wait I just said I can't tolerate stretch-o-vision  so any channel with it is a waste of bandwidth and channel guide space.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> You know our Governor Arnold?.That's how he says it.:lol:


Thanx. :icon_kiff


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> If FMC, TMC, IFC and such were in glorious HD


I agree and it baffles me why we can't get them in HD yet.

Rich


----------

