# Bad antenna install, need opinions please



## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

Note I want WB/UPN so waiting for the HDdvr doesn't help me right now. 

local installer ($60 per hour) that I hired to put the DB8 that I previously bought on the chimney won't be back in the office until Monday so I wanted my options before then. I had it in the attic but couldn't get in fox (uhf 42) because it was 2 degrees off. I figured if I got 75-90 in the attic on the other nets, (except 54), that on the chimney would be a good compromise to get in fox because in theory the signal is stronger outside right?

Well after much fiddling, we got it to where ch 42/54/64/67 were all pretty solid 60-70. Thing is, even when he was fiddling outside, i never got 64/67 to as good a signal as I had in the attic. I guess this was more of a big deal than I thought at the time. Does it sound reasonable that because the chimney was actually 6-8 ft away from the site in my attic, that it may be the reason I never got in a good signal outside? I'm assuming the antenna is perfectly plumb but of course I have no way of telling. He did seem to take great care when he did the chimney mount.

So overnight we had a very bad thunder storm. however this morning all the channels were the same as yesterday. Then this afternoon the winds and rains kicked up and the channels were all unwatchable during the storm (going from zero up to 70 wildly). Even now that it's calmed down, i can't get back in ch 67 but the others are relatively ok. I'm assuming this means the antenna moved. I didn't think up high on a 10 ft pole was very stable but he assured me it was rock solid. Obviously this isn't true.

So i have to think of my options and it's frustrating

1. tell him the antenna moved and make them somehow shore it up. I'd assume they would have to do this free/reduced cost since it obviously moved. However the problem I have this this option is even at the time of install, i only got low 70s for a high signal when inside i was getting 80s. So this may be foolish to try and solidify an antenna in this relatively poor position. 

2. maybe lower the antenna on the 10ft pole down a few feet to make it more stable? Or is this pointless given my 'weak' signals of 60-70?

3. I'm assuming you can do a tripod mount on the peak of any roof. (didn't ask him but i'd assume they can do that). I could have him stand near the spot where I had the good signals inside and try to find a good signal and I'd assume they should be the same/stronger on the roof at that point. Then we can determine how ch 42 will come in at that point. I'd assume they would do this as they are the pros and i dont see how else you could tell a good signal. Also if they can't get in all 6 networks, I may as well put the antenna back inside away from the elements.

4. try to lower the antenna for more stability and just aim for channel 42 then put another antenna back in the attic and get another antenna (though I know it's a 2 week wait for a jointenna unless I can do something like a reverse splitter? Of course then there's the cost for another antenna plus 30 for the jointenna. And now i'm really paranoid about outside mounts not being stable.

5. ask them what antenna they have for my area (I know the like wineguard) and ask him to do a test of it on the chimney mount. 


I already spent 200 on friday. I dont know how much more I want to put into this. I definitely have to have him back here, even if just to take the antenna down, as I dont climb on roofs. My gut says have him use a tripod and at least try to move the antenna to a point where the signal is at least as strong as inside and get the antenna as low to the roof as possible to minimize wind problems. I guess the 6 ft to the one side made a big difference.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

Why not get a CM 9521 rotor, then you can turn your ant at will with the remote control


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

First try going to antennaweb.org, you can get the locations of your locals there and the direction the antenna needs to be pointed in. I am assuming you have the right type of antenna. I have a chimney mount for my antenna and my local stations are about 30 miles away.  I have great quality and signal strength of about 107. I dont know why you were getting a good signal in the attic and then less of a signal outside,, it should be just the opposite. Is the antenna grounded ? One thing I did to lessen the movement of the antenna , I took a big chunk of wooden dowel and put it down the top of the pole and put in one screw in to hold it. I found that when I tightened up the antenna mount, it bent the pole,, the dowel allows you to really tighten it down good. The chimney mount brackets get a much better grip and there should be 2 of them, the pole shouldnt turn at all. Those chimney mount cables need to be tight too.


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

Hi Newsposter,

Refer to postings in "Going back to existing channel numbers after 2009?" by HIPAR about the eventual loss of all channels above 52. So in 2-3 years you will not need to worry about those in the 60's, they won't be there.

When you quote a strength please tell us which receiver you have. On an 811 (scale of 100), 70 is good but on a 921/942 (scale of 125) 70 is marginal. Clearly Redster with a signal of 107 has a 9xx receiver. A mis-aim of 2 degree is not likely to stop your signal.

Not only low for windage but what about lightning?
Luck,
-Ken


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

ok here goes:

can't use a rotor, i have tivo

he didn't guy the antenna. Should he have with a 10ft pole? About 4ft of the pole was chimney height and 6ft above it. The mounts were as spaced out as possible but obviously it moved. The chimney sticks out from the house so how do you guy it? only 'front to back'? I'm not sure if it's worth guying it there but probably will just at least have him carry it around the roof to see if there's a better signal.

I have hdtivo and while others have said the tuner bites, I've gotten the same results with my new hitachis tuner as well.

Weird thing, just now i checked signals and here they are


```
ch      power
26      91
32      91
42      71 (best EVER)
54      71 (best ever)
64      80-84
67      74-78 but looks pretty unstable
```
so on the surface looks great....except 67. I'll still have him carry it around at a minimum to the spot where it was in the attic. Stronger signal is always better 

plus dont forget, wind and night and morning will definitely change this signals. trust me.


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

Db-8 is very directional, I would have tried a DB-4 if not going with a rotor. Actually a Channel Master for around 20 dollars would get you a broader angle.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

actually I've had several reliable sources say the 2 degrees has nothing to do with my signal. It's that the tower for that station is 1/2 the power and height of the other stations. So I just need to find the 'tunnel' between my neighbors house and other objects to get stronger signals. I'll post back on tuesday night to let you know how the installer did this time


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

4248


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

newposter, whatever happened with this?


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

shame on me for forgetting my own thread

welp, spent a total of 400 bucks over 2 visits but think we finally got it. I had the installer walk the length of the roof, trying ever foot or so. And he even tried my higher roof but that was actually worse. Probably the neighbors house in the way or something. I'm definitely shooting thru a tunnel here between the neighbors house and some unseen object.

I hadn't thought a tree 200 ft away would be an issue and he did warn me about it when the leaves grow back, but I'm willing to take that risk because I'm pretty sure in October when i put the antenna up in the attic, there were still leaves on it. But I guess that can cause multipath right? I'm still hoping with it so far away I'm ok in spring.

Initially after he took the 10ft pole off the chimney, i had a great signal for fox ch 42 a few feet away but he said for a tripod, he would only use the 4-5 ft pole. He said he never guyed a 10ft pole and i sure wasn't going to be his first. I personally feel better about a lower mount anyway. So it's sitting on a tripod unguyed but i've had no problems the first few days so far.

After all this... we went back to the place above where i had the db8 in my attic. Then he wanted to try his winegard (looked like CM4228). The DB8 was better so we went back to it. Then I made him tweak it until ch 67 had a very high reading because I knew it had the worst multipath. I'm glad I did because just this AM I saw it dip about 15 points on the meter along with 64 the other day. ch 42, the real problem here, is now a solid 71. And ch 54 is now my 'worst' between 60-68ish but once WB moves to the UPN station and becomes CW this fall (ch 32), it wont matter. Also I've proved that the 2 degrees that ch 42 was off didnt matter, as others have told me. DB8 handled that just fine.

so now i love 24 in HD and even started watching american idol but dont tell anyone. And for some reason, in the mornings, fox actually goes from a 71 up to an 84 signal ..weird.

final readings and hopefully the end of this chapter:

```
26 cbs    90-92
32 upn    90-92
42 fox     solid 71 
54 wb     60-68
64  abc    83-85 some dips to 70s
67  nbc    83-85 some dips to 70s
```
So far, everything I've recorded on HDtivo this week is perfect. I used to duplicate recordings on my SD tivo because of the irregular signals I was getting but think soon i'll delete the dups.


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

Glad to hear it.


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## BornToFish (Jan 28, 2006)

Glad to hear you got it fixed. You could have also considered a 'CM' 4248, it's a strong performer, at the top of the UHF band, but that won't matter in a few years.


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