# Upgrade discussion (522 vs. 625, CSRs, hidden fees)



## cdbcorn (Mar 6, 2006)

As part of my 721's meltdown, I was considering whether to do the Dishin' it Up upgrade to a 625. I found the experience frustrating, and a bit off-putting. On the Dishnetwork webpage, when you click on the link for the brochure on the dual-tuner DVR they'd send you, it takes you to the 625 brochure. But in reality, you would randomly get either the 522 or the 625. I was assured by a number of CSRs that the two models were identical (one went so far as to wonder why they had different model numbers), but in fact, the 625 is Video on Demand capable, and the 522 is not. Not one CSR seemed aware of this fact.

I've seen others on this forum indicate that they didn't care which model they got. As for me, I specifically wanted the 625 - if I'm going to be locked in for 18 months, I may as well have the latest and greatest (VOD may not be all that right now, but it has potential). I was unable to get a CSR to find a way to ensure that I received a 625 as part of the upgrade - if a tech brought a 522 by, I would not be entitled to send it back. Needless to say, I found it very hard to believe that a company would have such little control over its supply chain that it couldn't specify what model went to what customer, and instead relied on the randomness of some warehouse workers to determine what is delivered to a customer.

Speaking with a supervisor did not ultimately help, either. Same spouted nonsense.

Finally, I sent an email to [email protected], describing my frustration. Turns out that the fella that responded (very promptly, to E*'s credit) recognizes the difference between the two models, and offered to create a manual work order that would send me the 625. Sounds great, eh? But then he notes that in addition to the $5.99 DVR fee, there would be an additional $5 lease fee per month, which was not negotiable. This was in direct conflict from at least two different CSRs I spoke with, who told me that there was no lease fee, and only the DVR fee. This puts the cost of the "free" upgrade to an additional $11 per month. Putting this on top of the recent price increase, plus the new 18 month commitment, it was simply too much to swallow. Instead, I've opted to sign up for the extended warranty and get my 721 repaired. When I go HD, I'll have to consider moving over to Comcast, if I don't feel that E* is committed to its customers - too many hoops, too many hidden costs and terms.

Just wanted to let ya'll know that:

(1) Although Dish is giving the impression that the dual-tuner upgrade is to the 625, it's not (they really should change the link on that page to remove that impression).

(2) There *is* a difference between the 522 and the 625, which could be important if you're interested in the VOD service.

(3) You can apparently guarantee an upgrade to the 625, if you push hard and high enough.

(4) No matter what the CSRs tell you, there *is* an additional $5 lease fee on top of the DVR fee.

(5) And finally, from a personal point of view, the quality of the CSRs has definitely decreased since I first selected Dish. Before anyone implies that this is because I'm against off-shoring, I say that off-shoring has little to do with it; I had a very useful conversation with a tech support rep regarding my 721. As with domestic support, it all depends on hiring quality people that don't get hung up on their script. Seems that if you're saving costs by off-shoring, you should compensate a bit by hiring more quality.

Just my two cents.


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## jef_e (Mar 6, 2006)

Well, I can understand your frustration a little. But having been a customer for the past 7 years, and following discussions here, on other forums, and alt.dbs.echostar, its apparent that E* can't win - no matter what they do. 

When I first joined, all you would hear were complaints of how much people spent for their hardware X number of years ago, and how all new subs were getting the deals on the latest & greatest hardware. 

Now, E* makes it easier for current subs to get newer hardware, but now the complaints are that they are charging a lease fee, and a DVR fee, and that they can't be guaranteed which model they get. The costs involved in making all of this stuff available through programs like Dish'n It Up have to come from somewhere, and this is how they've decided to cover them. 

Purchasing a new 522 outright would run me about $250 on eBay. With Dishin' it Up, I pay the $50 charge, and $5/month. That gives me a bit over 3 years before I hit the full hardware cost. For me, owning or not owning the hardware isn't that big of a deal. I owned my 4000 for 5 years before upgrading to a 510. Don't know how I went so long without one. 

Anyhow, I guess I'm just saying that for me, paying a bit extra to be able to take advantage of some newer technology isn't a showstopper. I feel that over the years, E* has done alright by me (including DishMover), and that even with the lease, I still feel I'm getting value out of their service. Granted, someday, that might change, but as of today, I'm happy.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

cdbcorn said:


> Just wanted to let ya'll know that:
> 
> (1) Although Dish is giving the impression that the dual-tuner upgrade is to the 625, it's not (they really should change the link on that page to remove that impression).
> 
> ...


1) You are right the upgrade could be either the 522 or the 625

2) The only Difference between the 522 and the 625 is the Hard Drive size. The extra space over the 522 on the 625 is all reserved for VOD. Both the 522 and 625 will do VOD (VOD Roll out for the 522 is a about one month after all 625's get the upgrade). The 625 will have more space for VOD. Be aware the VOD service is not like Cable. Dish's VOD is a PUSH technology, in that Dish decides what content to push. MOST VOD will be PPV and you will have to pay a premium for those VOD purchases over regular PPV.

3) OK

4) Yes, there is a Lease fee of $5.00 for the upgrade, but if you are adding the receiver to your account as a secondary receiver the Lease fee is INSTEAD of the Extra Outlet fee.

5) Yes, you are right the likelyhood of getting a truely Knowledgeable CSR is LOW. There are good CSR's but with the low pay scale its not likely to get a good CSR. I think the low wages has more to do with the lack of skills of the CSR's.

Personally, I think the VOD is at best a marginal feature unless Dish starts to push other content like HBO, and other premiums and NO FEE, if you subscribe to the premiums.

John


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

JohnL said:


> 1) You are right the upgrade could be either the 522 or the 625
> 
> 2) The only Difference between the 522 and the 625 is the Hard Drive size. The extra space over the 522 on the 625 is all reserved for VOD. Both the 522 and 625 will do VOD (VOD Roll out for the 522 is a about one month after all 625's get the upgrade). The 625 will have more space for VOD. Be aware the VOD service is not like Cable. Dish's VOD is a PUSH technology, in that Dish decides what content to push. MOST VOD will be PPV and you will have to pay a premium for those VOD purchases over regular PPV.
> 
> ...


 I agree unless Dish starts doing hbo video on demand and showtime video on demand etc , then their idea of video on demand is a waste of time.

Making customers pay for old movies and pay a dollar more for pay per views that they can get from the guide is stupid. They need to emulate the cable companies and provide videos that people want and they should provide for FREE anything they can get from the premium channels that they already subscribe to. Pay per views are a waste of video on demand.

Makes me wonder what good video over the internet will be using the vip series of sat receivers if they are charging you high prices for it.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

OK, I need to learn about some new things: Dishin' it Up and DishMover... 

(I have a 522, and I still have a desire to add one more, but Dish won't allow it.)


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

VOD as implemented by Dish truly is a waste of space. I'm glad the 625 has a bigger hard drive so it's not sucking up valuable DVR space. Satellite is definately at a disadvantage compared to cable on the VOD front, but if they're going to implement it at all, they need to make some changes. And their VOD pricing is laughable.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

jef_e said:


> Well, I can understand your frustration a little. But having been a customer for the past 7 years, and following discussions here, on other forums, and alt.dbs.echostar, its apparent that E* can't win - no matter what they do.
> 
> When I first joined, all you would hear were complaints of how much people spent for their hardware X number of years ago, and how all new subs were getting the deals on the latest & greatest hardware.
> 
> ...


I agree completely with these comments. You don't have to like their fees, but they are in it to make money. You can choose not to lease. I agree the CSR's should be trained better, and hopefully that will improve. I currently have a 721 and 598 (customer since 1999). In all likelihood I will go to the lease model and NOT buy my equipment when I am forced over to the MPEG 4 boxes. Yes, I'm paying $5 more for the lease, but I can walk away once the lease os up and cable charges a similar fee ($9.95/mo.) for their DVR box.....so pick your poison. As far as VOD, I'd rather NOT have it than have ALL the analog channels I will get if I get a digital package from cable (since at least 20 channels are analog)...the quality is really bad IMO. Good luck!


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## bnewt (Oct 2, 2003)

I am also considering the upgrade to the 625 from the 508. Would my monthly bill increase just $5.00 per month or are there other hidden costs?


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## cdbcorn (Mar 6, 2006)

bnewt said:


> I am also considering the upgrade to the 625 from the 508. Would my monthly bill increase just $5.00 per month or are there other hidden costs?


There is also the $5.99 DVR fee, plus a possible $5 monthly fee if you don't have the DVR hooked to a phone line (although apparently this last one may be negotiable).

There's also a one-time $49 upgrade fee, if I remember correctly.

And you need to make an 18 month commitment, with cancellation fees of around $13 per however many months are left on that commitment if you want out early.

If you don't already have a DVR, this could very well be a good deal, if you're willing to make the 18 month commitment.

In my case, it was better to repair my 721 than to pile on additional costs - plus I didn't want to make the 18 month commitment (technology and competition can change an awful lot in that time).


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