# DISH PVR or DirecTivo



## van_gogh (Apr 9, 2004)

I only have experience with DISH PVR, but TiVo's looking pretty appealing right now. Which do you prefer, DISH PVR or DirecTivo, and why?


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

van_gogh said:


> I only have experience with DISH PVR, but TiVo's looking pretty appealing right now. Which do you prefer, DISH PVR or DirecTivo, and why?


Hah, is this a joke?

Seriously... from a purely functional standpoint, there is no comparison at all. DirecTIVO is a decade ahead of any Dish PVR.

Name based recording
Stable system
Intuitive timer setup
Intuitive user interface
Decent remote
Upgradable HD
Can be hacked to include features not available commercially (and void warranty, of course)

etc... and I can go on.

These all features of DirecTIVO. These are all anti-features of DishPVR. A Dish PVR is everything a Tivo isn't. (Clumsy, unstable, bugridden, counter-intuitive, etc...)

Everything else being equal, go with the DirecTIVO


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Don't forget TWO tuners standard.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Van gogh I am a DISH/ Directv dealer I have two TiVos in my home along with 3 basic Directv receivers. Directv and TiVo are so far ahead of DISH it is unbelievable if Pegasus territories didn't exist I would probably drop DISH. Directv products work out of the box, they may need some updating over their useful life but they don't need monthly repairs to try and get them to perform their advertised functions.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

boba said:


> Directv products work out of the box, they may need some updating over their useful life but they don't need monthly repairs to try and get them to perform their advertised functions.


My 501 doesn't need monthly repairs to perform it's advertised functions. I record several shows. They all record just fine. Pausing, rewinding, live TV, works great. I can actually dictate when I will watch shows and I can dictate whether or not I will watch advertisements! This is the real power. The TiVo is much better in regards to season pass and such but I think sometimes people are drinking some "TiVo Kool Aid" or however you say it.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

No comparison like Inaba said. I owned two 508s and for one for 18 months and the other for about a year, they don't even compare to the DirecTiVo. My 508s were fairly stable at one point, but gradually became more and more unstable with random reboots, remote freezes and loss of video. After using the TiVo for 2 months, I could never go back to an Echostar DVR that has to be baby sat to make sure it behaves it's self. A few lacking features of the DirecTV DVR that Dish's have is caller ID, the 721 can do picture in picture DTiVos cannot and the buffer is 30 minutes. Name based recordings is one of the biggest advantages the DirecTiVo has when it comes to features over the VCR like functions of Dish Networks recorders.


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## van_gogh (Apr 9, 2004)

Mike Richardson said:


> My 501 doesn't need monthly repairs to perform it's advertised functions. I record several shows. They all record just fine. Pausing, rewinding, live TV, works great. I can actually dictate when I will watch shows and I can dictate whether or not I will watch advertisements! This is the real power. The TiVo is much better in regards to season pass and such but I think sometimes people are drinking some "TiVo Kool Aid" or however you say it.


My experience is similar. My 501 does exactly what's intended- no more, no less. I'd also heard some controversy regarding TiVo and the Super Bowl (apparently TiVo _knows_ what you're recording and reports back to the home office). TiVo made the mistake of reporting the number of users that rewound and recorded the halftime show. I don't care if everyone knows 20 of my 30 hours of space are devoted to the kids' complete collection of Lilo & Stitch, but it also has me leery of the"TiVo Kool Aid". However, dual tuners look like a pretty good upgrade.

What about the remotes? My Dish Network *PLATINUM* universal remote is ergonomically designed and has *43* neat buttons! :eek2: I haven't seen a decent picture of the DirecTivo one, but it looks sparse in comparison and has silly Siskel & Ebert thumbs. :grin: Seriously, is it a universal remote, or do I go back to four separate remotes?

What else should I know comparing the two systems?


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## SouthernSky (Jul 15, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> No comparison like Inaba said. I owned two 508s and for one for 18 months and the other for about a year, they don't even compare to the DirecTiVo. .


We've gone through 3 hard drives on our store demo unit, one on a 508 and two on the 510, each within 90 days of receipt of the units. Then we had to help several customer get hard drives changed within the warranty period. No more DISH PVR's for us. I can't sell a product I don't believe in.

We gave up. No more DISH for us except service calls for customers we sold. Soon we'll get away from DISH completely.


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

IMHO
My 721 has 90 hours (out the box NOT hacked) recording time, 2 tuners and has worked to my statisfaction and NO MONTHLY tivo fee.
But hey NO one can diswade a tivo user from bashing other products.
Which is fine, but most of the ones bragging about D*tivo have "hacked"
theirs to get extra time which is fine also, 
just be aware that many have modified their D*tivos.


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## van_gogh (Apr 9, 2004)

retiredTech said:


> ... many have modified their D*tivos.


I've read about changing the "skip" setting from 'default=jump to end of the recording' to 'jump ahead 30 seconds' by entering some key combinations on the remote. Would you consider this changing of the settings to commercial-skip mode a "hack", or is that just changing from one set of factory default settings to another *valid* user preference?


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

I use the word "hack" simply to say that the modification is not "approved" by the service that one subscribes to. I do NOT condemn it, (unless someone is stealing programing I "feel" that improving one's equipment should be one's choice), (however the provider might). I was merely pointing out that "some"(only some) of the features that tivo users "brag" about are not functionable "out of the box". And that if someone is either unwilling or unable to preform modifications, that "that someone" may not be aware of this.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

DirecTiVos also come with 120GB hard drives from the factory under the Hughes and Samsung brand names ($350 MSRP) and Philips offers an 80GB model ($250 MSRP). Or for $99 buy a 35 hour model, and a larger hard drive and upgrade the box. Both of my SD-DVR40s are unhacked at the moment.

The DirecTiVo remote is shaped like a giant peanut, and can only control your TiVo and TV. But if you have a home theater system you can program the volume and mute buttons to control the HT receiver instead of the TV set. With the Platinum and blue button remotes, the volume controls could only control the tv speakers, which did me no good since I haven't used the TV speakers in close to 2 years now. So now for normal TV viewing only need one remote. All codes are provided in an on screen menu, just find the select the manufacture in the menu and it will give you the codes. No looking through manuals at tiny print searching for the right code. I don't like the placement of the TV power button though, but have learned to live with it. The thumbs buttons are used to rate shows if you wish to use TiVo Suggestions. I don't participate in Suggestions, I view the list every so often and have discovered a few new shows thanks to it. Here's a picture of the remote from Best Buy's web site. The one on the left is the DirecTiVo remote, for comparison I also included a standalone TiVo remote (right), which is nearly identical

















BTW- I wouldn't call the SPS30S 30 sec skip code a hack, it's more of an Easter Egg like the other codes.


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## narnia777 (Mar 28, 2003)

I've had Dish with DHP 508 and 301 for about 15 months. I now have Directv with Tivo and Tivo is far more powerful then the 508. My 508 was semi-stable but has crashed on occasion. 
It is a bit easier to use but no where near as powerful, it's a pretty dumb digital recorder 

When I downgraded my programming to DHP $5 rental + superstations $5.99 plus 2 fox stations that I had waiver for $1.50 each. The rep didn't ask me to return my boxes. They charged my debit card $399 for not returning them! So warning, it's not easy to get off of DHP, DHP requires AT50/60 or greater even after your one year lease. I now have to return my receivers to get my money back. Fun Fun.

I'm pleased with TC+ w/locals $10 off first 6 months (3 months free showtime and 6 months $10 off of starz). More useful channels then Dish AT180 that I was on (Trio, Oxygen, PBS Kids, etc) and cheaper to boot, my first bill was under $38, regular bill will be $48 for TC+w/locals, much cheaper then the $60+ I was paying to Dish for DHP Top 180 w/locals.

Jim


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## Pepper (Mar 9, 2004)

Steve Mehs said:


> With the Platinum and blue button remotes, the volume controls could only control the tv speakers, which did me no good since I haven't used the TV speakers in close to 2 years now.


There are instructions in the Dish manuals on how to make the volume buttons control a HT receiver instead of the TV volume. Works fine for me (Kenwood HTB)


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

With the Platinum and blue button remotes, the volume controls could only control the tv speakers

----

Not true, you can set up the platinum remotes to control the volume on your receiver. It's in the manual, it just changes the default volume to receiver rather than tv.


I agree the Tivo might be better for most, but Dish DVRs also offer lots of features that Tivos don't. To name a few:

Better/faster guide
PIP in guide
Caller ID
PIP
Browse Banner
UHF remote


And whoever said the Tivo remote is better? You're kidding right?


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I must have missed that in the manual. Either way doesn't matter, I don't use it any more and never want to use it again. And I looked through this thread twice now and I haven't seen anyone say they like the TiVo remote better, and if some one does what difference does it make. Only thing I missed from Dish is the UHF remote, for conrtol the receiver through a thick blanket. But that's hardly a price to pay IMO, to not have to deal with Echostar and their receivers.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Van_gogh if you haven't noticed the TiVo proponents are almost all previous DISH subscribers, that alone should tell you something. I haven't seen a post of a TiVo user that switched to DISH and said it was a better DVR. Will DISH buy back your DVR if you aren't happy with it. Under "Truth or Dare" Directv will buy back your TiVo and give you a basic receiver in its place.


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

This is only my opinion. 
I have two SA TiVos each with their own 301 boxes and 2 811 boxes. My wife and I love the TiVos and their features. We have been with Dish for over 8 years and have been generally happy with Charlie & Co.
I would like to get a HD PVR BUT based on the current 921 problems and the problems with older Dish PVRs I really can not see getting any Dish PVR at this time.
As I am grandfathered for distant stations - currently to the end of 2004 - I am staying with Dish until I lose the distants. At that time I will need to:
a) stay with Dish if they - really - have a reliable PVR and more HD channels
b) get a non Dish HD PVR, if available, that works with Dish 
c) go to Directv with HD TiVos if they add more HD channels
d) hate to say this but maybe go to cable that has more HD and a good HD PVR.
So for me and perhaps others, who are concerned about investing in Dish HD PVRs and lack of new HD channels, it may just pay to see what happens with HD PVRs and HD channels in general between now and the end of the year. 
BTW the fact that TiVo seems more and more linked to D* is not a good thing either.
Again this is just my opinion


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

retiredTech said:


> IMHO
> My 721 has 90 hours (out the box NOT hacked) recording time, 2 tuners and has worked to my statisfaction and NO MONTHLY tivo fee.
> But hey NO one can diswade a tivo user from bashing other products.
> Which is fine, but most of the ones bragging about D*tivo have "hacked"
> ...


Just for the record, I want to point out that I'm currently a Dish customer, and I own a 721. I have since last June, and will be until this June. At which point unless there is name based recording on my 721, I will move to DirecTIVO.

I hate to support Hughes. I despise them with every fiber of my beign, but the sad fact of the matter is, I'm tired of coming home every night and wondering if my shows are still on the hard drive, or if they recorded at all.

This last Daylight Saving Time fiasco was just the final nail in the coffin. All my timers read the correct time, but they don't record on the correct time (They record an hour early, even though they say they'll record on the correct time) - and manually deleting and recreating every time I have is ludicrous. If it had name based recording, it wouldn't even be an issue... but because Dish is stupid, they keep timer based recording, thus forcing me to waste over an hour recreating my timers to correct for their crappy code.

I'm so done with Dish PVRs when my contract is up.


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## mrdectown (Apr 10, 2004)

well i have a 522. Its my second one. The first one was fine, but then all of a sudden half the box stop working. its just up and stopped. so i could watch recorded shows on one and live on the other. so they sent me a new one. i am soppose send the other box back but i have the whole season of chappelle show and wrestlemania. so so depressing. and it just me or does dish pvr take up more time then advertised? lets say i have 100 hours i record something thats 2 hours long next thing you know i have 93 hours? i dont get it.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

If you read the fine print in the product brochures or even on Dish's website it says "**Recording hours vary depending on the type of programming being recorded" It depends on how much compression Dish is giving the channel at the time. The more compression, the less amount of time it will take up on the drive, but the worse the picture quality will be. Live sporting events and programming recorded from premium movie channels and from PPV, especially those that broadcast in Dolby Digital will consume more hard disk space then a regular program of equal length. Those channels are typically less compressed and are allotted more bandwidth. To get the full 100 hours, you’d basically have to record shopping channels and talking news heads.


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## mrdectown (Apr 10, 2004)

i understand now. i read that part but i thought it meant it in a dummy way like when it says it may vary. like some shows are longer then others kinda thing i didnt think picture quality had that kinda affect to. man i feel like a dumbass. YOU STUPID IDIOT (slapping self on forhead) R.I.P chris farley


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

I had the first regular 35 hour Tivo and liked it a lot especially the season pass option. However, my Tivo hard drive after 6 years croaked, I switched to Dish Network because of their promotions. I got the 501 and it had a lot of lockups duing its first few years. Now I have the 508 and the 522 model. I really like my 508. The 522 still has many bugs to be worked out and the guide and menus move slower on it.

I'm just not much on the Directv service overall compared to Dish and really don't want to change just for Tivo.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Don't beat yourself up Mrdectown, record time is a fairly common misconception . During the first Showtime free preview I had with a 508 I was a little flabbergasted at the time remaining on the drive after I recorded a few movies. 

BTW- Welcome to DBSTalk :hi:


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

This is my opinion. Your milage may vary.

First off, both the DishDVR and DirecTiVo do not have the quality setting since they record the material directly off the datastream.

The one advantage that DishDVRs had is now gone. The 501, 508, and 721 were basically "fee-free DVRs". Starting with the 510, Dish implemented a $5 fee just because they can. When you compare the software between the DishDVR and the DirecTiVo, there are places where the Dish software has an advantage (i.e. four favorites lists instead of one, faster grid guide), overall, the DirecTiVo software is considered superior. 

In terms of price/performance, the DirecTiVo has an advantage. For years already, the DirecTiVo (and the discontinued Ultimate TV) allowed you to have two satellite inputs instead of one. Dish only introduced this with the 721 about a year or so ago, and has it on the 522.

But, then you compare hardware pricing. The 721 has been discontinued. The 522 isn't available for purchase at this time. The 510 with fee costs $299 with one tuner. Meanwhile, DirecTiVo 35 hour costs $49-99 with a one year contract to DirecTV. If you are savvy enough, you can make a backup of the DirecTV drive using Hinsdale tools and even replace the drive with a pair of larger ones. The DishDVRs, on the other hand, are locked in with the hard drive and cannot be expanded.

DirecTV's low price may be two-fold: To increase DVR ownership (which results in lower churn rates), and to clear out the DVRs with small hard drives. One wonders what Dish's strategy is at this time.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Mark Holtz said:


> One wonders what Dish's strategy is at this time.


Quite frankly, it doesn't seem they have one, other than "increase revenue and lower expenses".


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## Roger Tee (Feb 22, 2004)

Owning a 721, 3x501s (retired 2 as spares when I got the 721), 2x7100s, and a Tivo. I use 4 of these a 721 & 7100 upgraded HD 501 and last & least the Tivo SA listed them in order of preference. Tivo is slow, and I hate having to tinker with the season passes every week so it'll record what I want. Plus for me the first thing I had to do was kill the (censored) sugestions. 

Maybe it's my preference for searching the guide and choosing what to record every day (acually a week at a time). I never found season passes to be all that much help. Maybe that is because they are only usefull for episodic shows and I watch very little that is a series.

My thoughts on Tivo Vs Dish Pvrs


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Well, I often go into "Search by title", select "Movies", and go through the movies list.


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

Just for the record

TiVo has 4 PQ modes. Basic - to - Best. By example the same Hard Drive can record 90 hours at Basic PQ but only 35 at Best PQ

Do not understand the problem with TiVo season pass option. It really is a set it and foreget it situation, and you can pick first ruin only or first run & repeats of any show as recording option. TiVo will pick up recording time changes to a particular program for you even if you do not catch it yourself. Seeing as Roger Tee already owns the TiVo perhaps if he details his problem perhaps some here or at the TiVo Forum site can help him fix the problem he is having. If you own something it should work as advertised.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

One other thing that I forgot to mention.... the Dish Guide goes out to ~8.5 days, which the DirecTV guide goes out to ~14 days.

The quality settings only apply to the _standalone_ TiVo/Replay units.


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## bnewt (Oct 2, 2003)

How are the Tivos as far as noise? I had 2 508's.........and had to return them due to noise. I could hear them from 12' away, + they were inside a cabinet.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Quite quiet. I could hear the heads moving because of where the DVR is positioned (arm's length from computer chair), and when I applied a "quiet" utility to the Samsungs, I could not hear them at all.


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

If this helps 

I second Mark H. comments. The only time I had noise was when my 4 year old Series one Sony TiVo hard drive was dieing. I got a new drive from a web site TiVo support company and was able to install the new hard drive with no effort in about 10 minutes. 

I can not comment on the Dish PVRs but based on posting here they seem to have problems. I know some one who has a HD TiVo (beta tester) for some time. It seem to work as well as the SD TiVo units but the HD Tivo will not work with Dish. Perhaps the Dish 922 will be better than the 921.


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## OmarG (Apr 16, 2004)

I've been a loyal Dish PVR customer (have been using the 501 for years) and was very satisfied and was planning to pay out for the 921 when it became available.

The firewire and software issues have made me seriously consider switching to D* and the TiVo box. It sounds like for the same money, I'd be getting a much more stable product that can record two OTA channels at the same time, a feature I think I'd get a lot of use out of.

One complication: I found out that Time Warner, my local cable provider has quietly rolled out its own HD PVR box that's available now. It has a smaller hard drive (160 gig, 20 hours of HD record time), but apparently all the locals but one are offered through the cable connection (the box apparently can display OTA signals, but can't record them), and it can record two HD streams at once. The best part: the box is $6.99 a month, rented, no $1,000 up-front cost of ownership required. (Plus a $9.95 DVR fee a month per box, which does seem excessive, plus whatever you're paying for HD content/channels.)

This may not be the best place to ask about a cable box, but what do you guys think? I like the idea of not having to pay $1,000 for a box up front (and if I don't like it, I can just return the cable HD box like I would any other cable box). But I've come to love my Dish service and the PQ on satellite and all-digital channels. 

I'm leaning toward the D* Tivo HD-PVR. Does anyone think the Time Warner deal might be the better route for me? I'm in Austin and am pretty close to OTA digital stations for all the major nets and PBS.


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## Roger Tee (Feb 22, 2004)

Jerry 42 said:


> Just for the record
> 
> TiVo has 4 PQ modes. Basic - to - Best. By example the same Hard Drive can record 90 hours at Basic PQ but only 35 at Best PQ
> 
> Do not understand the problem with TiVo season pass option. It really is a set it and foreget it situation, and you can pick first ruin only or first run & repeats of any show as recording option. TiVo will pick up recording time changes to a particular program for you even if you do not catch it yourself. Seeing as Roger Tee already owns the TiVo perhaps if he details his problem perhaps some here or at the TiVo Forum site can help him fix the problem he is having. If you own something it should work as advertised.


It's not a problem with the way the season passes work per se. For most people the way they are designed is probably great. If you are the type of person that watches the same show every week then they work fine. I'm not that sort of person so for me they don't cut it. When I tried season passes I was having to go in and change the priority all the time. If a story line catches my interest I record it and if I get to it I may even watch it. Of course at least 1/2 of what I record gets erased unwatched. Only so many TV hours a week after family time and work. when a show gets old and unwatched I erase it.

I was trying to recall the last show that went off the air that I missed and it was "Allo, Allo", Dad's Army, Last of the Summer Wine, and Red Dwarf, Britcoms on WLIW/WNET/NJN and/or BBC America channels

Tonight I recorded Jonathon Creek (new show), and CSI Miami or maybe it's Miami CSI? Recently recorded Holiday Inn, two Glenn Miller movies, Easter Parade and a couple of other Musicals. And of course the drives are littered with snippets from VH1 Classic where I recorded a song or two that I like.

In short I watch 1 or 2 shows a night or 1 movie.

Cheers
Roger Tee


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## Bill D (May 11, 2002)

I had a 721 since day one, just switched to a 100 hr tivo and a 35 hr tivo. Strictly because Dish didn't have YES.
The named based recording is awesome, not having to always reprogram your timers for specials and day changes is great. It finds Yankee games whether on YES, FOX or WCBS. Being able to quickly switch between both tuners which are always recording is great. Even though I don't use it, I love when I am watching a show promo and it says hit thumbs up to record (I have tivo suggestions off), this is great software, very smart. It has a bunch of other great features as well...
What I really miss is the speed of the 721 especially the list/pvr menu, the browse bar, not sure why the Tivo doesn't have one. The Guide on the Tivo is slow and covers what you are watching. The 721 is quick and puts the channel in a box squeezed back..
Miss caller ID and UHF remote, although I am using one of those IR to RF converters that fits in the battery compartment and it works great. 
One issue with the Tivo, where the hell is the power button? I have to go into a menu to turn it off!!
The way I look at it, I use it for one main purpose to record the shows I like, in which case the 721 probably has more and better features but... the name based recordings is incredible. I also can now record 4 things at once up to 135 hrs of stuff, that and the triple lnbf for $400, I paid $525 for the 721..
Bill


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## RichP (Sep 6, 2003)

I was a DirecTV customer from '98-'00(ancient 2nd gen RCA POS receiver), Dish customer from '00-'04(2700/7200(retired), then 508 and 6000), and as of last Saturday I went back to DirecTV(generic RCA and Samsung DTivo).

I felt obligated to post on this thread because there is just way too much "Tivo and DirecTV is GREAT!" stuff here. Before I start, let me say that the only reason I switched is because I wanted the NFL Network, and the NFL Sunday Ticket this fall. Otherwise, I was perfectly content with Dish Network, I even watched the Charlie Chats. The reason I ditched the 7200 (original Microsoft Dishplayer) is because it was total garbage, and Dish gave me a 508 for $99 to make up for it (this was... almost two years ago? maybe a bit less). That was a total steal at the time, and made me a happy Dish customer.

At any rate, the grass is not always greener. 

DirecTivo pros: dual tuners, neat software, stable

DirecTivo cons/things the 508 did better: no caller ID, total garbage modem, 
jumbled remote (the 508's was more intuitive, I keep hitting the dang thumbs up button when i mean to hit the channel up/down), no UHF remote, why do I need to enter a cheesy code to get my 30 second skip?? AND THE GUIDE....IS....SO....SLOOOOOW... what is in this thing, a 286? Also, why does it record random crap. This may be my fault - I thought it would be hilarious Saturday night to go through and triple-thumbs-up every porno I could find. My wife was less than amused ("What is 'Sinful Desires 2'? What IS all this???"). OK, lesson learned. HOwever, I triple-thumbs-upped 'Night of the Living Dead' so Tivo now thinks I'm a HUGE Munsters fan. Gah.

Additionally, DirecTV's programming is noticeably more compressed than Dish's. Not on all channels, and oddly enough it seems like DirecTV varies their compression based on time of day. I was watching the news on a local station this morning and could not BELIEVE how bad the compression was. However, my wife is watching American Idol on the same channel right now and the compression is barely noticeable.

I was also peeved with Sunday night's DirecTV viewing. There was that blackout during Sopranos (there is a thread about it elsewhere on this board), and the sound was garbled during Queer as Folk throughout the entire episode. You can say a lot of things about Dish, but during 4 years of being an Echostar customer I've NEVER had this happen. 

Despite this, I can't see myself going back to Dish for the next couple years, at least until they get their NFL situation straightened out. I LOVE the NFL Network, I watch it almost nonstop. And the thought of being able to watch any NFL game I want, not just what my commie Fox station thinks I should watch, is TREMENDOUS. I'm more excited for this NFL season than I've ever been.

However, if the NFL ever changes hands, I'd go back to Dish in a heartbeat. Hardware and programming aside, I believe they are ethically a much stronger company. I think what they did with Viacom took a lot of guts, and wish that ALL sat/cable providers would stand up to insane programming rate increases.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> Also, why does it record random crap. This may be my fault - I thought it would be hilarious Saturday night to go through and triple-thumbs-up every porno I could find. My wife was less than amused


Go to DirecTV Central-> Messages & Set Up-> My Preferences->TiVo Suggestions

And yes, it is your fault to a point.  Thumb Ratings and Suggestions if taken seriously may help you discover new programs that may have some interest to you, they also may not. But it is an intuitive system that if you take seriously can work to your advantage. If you rate shows with a thumbs up TiVo will red flag similar shows that may hold interest to you, if you give a show a thumbs down it will not look for those shows. Personally I don't use suggestions and thumb ratings, but I view the list every once in a while to see what's on it and I follow two TV series because of suggestions. If you turn off suggestions and don't use thumb ratings you don't have to worry about anything.

As for your other points, regarding CID and modem don't keep a phone line plugged in so it doesn't effect me, the remote takes some getting used to, if you want an extended range check out the IR repeater cones from Radio Shack. TiVo doesn't have an official 30 second skip, that button is designed to skip to the next marker, it's not a 30 sec skip button. The code is an Easter Egg along with the dozens of other TiVo codes that could be removed at anytime. The EPG is slow, true, but I spend no where near the amount of time surfing the guide with TiVo as I did with the 508. I used the guide twice in the past week.

My opinions differ greatly and I think the grass is a whole lot greener on the other side, but at any rate Welcome to DBSTalk and enjoy the TiVo! :hi:


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## RichP (Sep 6, 2003)

Thanks for the welcome, Steve!

I'm fully aware that my garbage recordings stems from my fooling around with it, that's ok, that was really a very minor complaint. I saw a new feature, so went hog wild to see what would happen. Tivo now thinks all I do is watch adult movies all day, that's fine, I still think it's funny. The little woman would disagree. 

As for the range with the remote, that's not really a problem, because I sit about 6 feet from the receiver. Due to having a 4 week old baby, we've had a rearrange the furniture in the main room, so there is a table right in front of the receiver with junk sitting on top of it. With the 508's UHF remote, I never really had to think about this (the TV's IR is far enough above the table to not causing problems), but with the Tivo's remote I have to sort of angle it around things. This sort of leads me to believe that they used a pretty cheap IR transmitter in the remote, because my Cinema 7 will work from another room bouncing off 2 walls. Now, that was a $30 remote so I don't expect the same capabilities in the Tivo remote, but still - 6 feet away? 

One other semi-major problem I'm battling is that the stinking time is a minute behind on the receiver. I assumed this was because it hadn't really sync'ed itself up yet, but this is turning out not to be the case. For the recordings I set I can get around this by simply setting them to record a minute early, but what a pain. My old 508 was never more than a few seconds off, and I only ever had problems with MTV recordings because they almost never start or end their shows on time. On Tivo I have to change every single recording I do, and this should not be happening!! I assume the unit gets its time from the satellite, so I lay the blame for this one on DirecTV. I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my original post last night, since this problem is actually worth calling them about and complaining. 

You really don't have to have the phone line plugged in anymore? I thought this is where the device got its guide data and software upgrades from. One thing I liked about Dish is that when you plug a "hasn't been used in awhile"/new receiver in, it will do the software upgrade *immediately*. My Tivo hasn't gotten any a/b/c upgrades yet, and is still running bone-stock 3.1.1. This is fine, but it's kind of futile for me to start calling them about problems I'm having with the device if it's fixed in an update they did 6 months ago! I'm running Vonage and had to do some tweaks to get it to call in successfully (which is where my "cheap junk modem" complaint comes from - my Dish receivers dialled in from Vonage all the time and never had a problem, and that was on the lowest bandwidth setting!!), I wonder if the modem is too slow due to the necessary tweak and disconnects before the update is complete. What also amuses me is that the other DirecTV receiver I bought, the cheapest barebones RCA available, has no trouble dialling in at all with zero tweaks. What kind of nonsense is this. What does a good Conexant modem chip cost, fifty cents? Because that's what RCA used in their $50 receiver, and it works fine. 

Like I said, my point here is not to mercilessly bash DirecTV and Tivo, I'm happy overall with the service and don't plan to cancel. I just wanted everyone who is thinking of switching to take a step back and assess what it is they really hope to gain. If you're like me and you did it for programming, well, you just switch and adjust to the changes in service and hardware. If you're doing it just for the hardware, look into an updated receiver.

Finally, I do agree with people who say that Dish's $5 PVR fee is laughable. It doesn't cost them a dime more to provide ongoing features/guide data with the PVRs than it does with their other receivers. Instead of "PVR fee", they should just itemize it in the bill as "Additional Echostar Profit".


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

You will need to have the phone line hooked up to receive DirecTivo upgrades. However, both Dish and DirecTV DVRs get program guide information from the satellite.


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## RichP (Sep 6, 2003)

Mark Holtz said:


> You will need to have the phone line hooked up to receive DirecTivo upgrades. However, both Dish and DirecTV DVRs get program guide information from the satellite.


Excellent, thanks for the info. Before I bought the DirecTV stuff, I read up a bit on them, and it must have been older stuff because it said the programming guide came over the phone. What interests me is why the guide is so slow. I'm under the impression that both DirecTV and Dish PVRs store guide data on the hard drive, in which case both should be relatively quick. I'm wondering if the difference is that 1. Dish's guide has less lines, and 2. Dish also requires you to hit an "info" button to get the program description, whereas the Tivo loads up every description with the program title.

What's funny is that while going over this, I remembered another huge beef I have with the DirecTivo receiver. Has anyone gotten the "Show only channels I receive" function to work? My guide shows EVERYTHING, even channels that are impossible for me to receive (the raw network feeds, for example). Even if I tell it to only show channels I receive, it still shows every channel that is on the service. On my Dish receivers all you had to do was tell it to show you "All Sub", and indeed, it would show you only the channels that you subscribed to. This is a pretty egregious bug to not have fixed, and I know it's not something I'm doing wrong because when I hit "Guide", it says the bottom, "Channels: All I Receive", vs. "All Channels", which I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to see. After all, who actually has "All Channels" except pirates? If anyone has the solution for me here that would be a *tremendous* help, and going a long way to restoring my faith in my Tivo. At some point I will go through and use "Favorites", but that takes forever and I'll have to wait until I have a solid 20 minutes to go through and sort through all the junk.


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## dswallow (Mar 31, 2003)

RichP said:


> What's funny is that while going over this, I remembered another huge beef I have with the DirecTivo receiver. Has anyone gotten the "Show only channels I receive" function to work? My guide shows EVERYTHING, even channels that are impossible for me to receive (the raw network feeds, for example). Even if I tell it to only show channels I receive, it still shows every channel that is on the service. On my Dish receivers all you had to do was tell it to show you "All Sub", and indeed, it would show you only the channels that you subscribed to. This is a pretty egregious bug to not have fixed, and I know it's not something I'm doing wrong because when I hit "Guide", it says the bottom, "Channels: All I Receive", vs. "All Channels", which I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to see. After all, who actually has "All Channels" except pirates? If anyone has the solution for me here that would be a *tremendous* help, and going a long way to restoring my faith in my Tivo. At some point I will go through and use "Favorites", but that takes forever and I'll have to wait until I have a solid 20 minutes to go through and sort through all the junk.


You have to configure the channels you receive. For some unknown/incomprehensible reason they don't make that happen automatically.

In other words, it's not a bug, but is working as designed.

I agree, there certainly should at least be an automatic scan of some sort, if nothing better, since the receiver is certainly aware of what channels you really receive.


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## aenea (Apr 21, 2004)

On the slow guide problem, I assume you're talking about the grid type guide, which is dog slow. Have you tried the other guide type? It presents the guide in two lists. Some people don't like it, but it's much faster.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Currently, DirecTiVos are shipped with s/w version 311. When the receiver makes it's first call after the inital set up it should download at least 311b or now maybe even c. Are you still on the orginal 311?

Go to the Phone Connection Set, If you're not on atleast B select Make Daily Call Now and it will dial out and should download. There is rumor on the TiVo Community Forums, there may be only one or two more updates via phone line, they may be coming from the satellite soon.


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## RichP (Sep 6, 2003)

dswallow: OK, it's good to know I'm not crazy. It is an odd oversight, and I'm almost wondering if it's something mandated by DirecTV. I noticed last night my RCA doesn't have the ability to weed out all unsubbed channels either.

aenea: I did look at the other guide. I thought it was kind of neat, but my wife is a bit anal retentive and change-adverse (she is still going nuts that I am "filling up my Tivo with crap".. I haven't yet told her you can turn that feature off  ). What's funny is that it recorded a movie off HBO Signature yesterday that she actually wants to watch. Maybe I'll sell her on that feature yet!

Steve: The Tivo does successfully make its daily call, every day I go into the Receiver info menu and check. It does it around 2:30-3:30am. The software is still stock 3.1.1, with no letters. It's a Samsung, and a very new one at that; I can't remember where I saw it, but the box was manufactured sometime in March. Maybe my box's serial number hasn't made it into their list of boxes to update yet? I'll try forcing a Daily Call and see what happens. 

Thanks all for the help!


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## dswallow (Mar 31, 2003)

RichP, it's hard to believe it'd be something DirecTV would've wanted done, simply because the process DirecTV uses when they delete and recreate a channel, such as for some PPV channels and sporting event channels seems to cause channels to reappear that you've previously said you don't receive; so they already have ways of making channels show up on you that you'd gotten rid of before.

More likely it's just one of those "extra things" the software developers didn't do, for whatever reason -- like maybe the effort to implement was better spent on other things since it'd theoretically be a one-time config operation on the part of the user anyway.


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