# Onsite ces report - day one



## hdtvfan0001

CES 2011 Roundup – Thursday January 6, 2011

While the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) technically started yesterday… several of us flew in early this morning for our first day. It’s always fun to come into Las Vegas and drive down the Las Vegas Strip on the way to the Convention Center (see photo 1 on the left below).

Day 1 at CES – The sheer size of the event is staggering (it attracts over 120,000 people each year), even for those of us who have been here before. It takes up the entire North, Central, and South Las Vegas Convention Center halls…plus…the Hilton and Venetian Convention Centers (neighboring facilities) as well. The terms CES and HUGE should always be near each other. (See photos 2 & 3).

After showing our ID’s and getting our badge-holders, we entered CES and proceeded to visit a number of booths…lots of “attendee traffic” at the show.

What was obvious early on is that 3D is anything but “dead”. In fact, there was more signage promoting 3D products this year than last year. Even more interesting was that Toshiba was showing a glasses-free 3D HD demo on multiple size displays at CES this year – from 12” up to 65”. They were real, worked, and actually pretty impressive.

The concept of the glasses- free 3D HD from Toshiba is to have multiple view angles and eliminate distortion at those designated angles. So…defined seating locations (or standing as well) provides clear 3D HD viewing. If you view it from areas between those angles, some distortion remains. (see photos 4 & 5).

In addition to being dazzled by all the new “toys” and events at this mammoth tech show…there was a late afternoon “DirecTV onsite meeting” for a number of DBSTalkers there, including Doug Brott (DBSTalk Moderator), HDTVFAN0001, RichieRich, Draconis, David Ortiz, NR4P, HDhead, The Moose, mattgwyther, and VLaslow. While DirecTV did not formally have a booth at CES, this was a very enjoyable and informative time. Thanks to Doug for coordinating this gathering.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

Nice! 
Who all did you guys get to meet with from DirecTV and what all was discussed if thats allowed to share?

looking forward to more from you guys.


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## Sixto

Any publicly viewable non-confidential DirecTV related stuff in the ...

Samsung area (#12006, N116, N117, N118, N119, N213, N214, N215, N216, N217, N219, N220, N221, N222, N223, N224, N225, N226, N227, N228)?

Entropic area (#36212)?

TiVo area (#N201, N202, N203, N204)?

Morega area (#MP25358)?

Doesn't look like Jethead has their own booth.


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## Hutchinshouse

Glasses-free 3D 56"

Nice!

Wish I was there!


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## Draconis

Here is the handout they were distributing at the Entropic booth about RVU.


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## Sixto

Draconis said:


> Here is the handout they were distributing at the Entropic booth about RVU.


Any DirecTV product(s) viewable in any publicly available booth demonstrating RVU?

Expecting photos of any DirecTV technology in public view anywhere on the show floor. Enter, walk, snap, post.


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## cypherx

That RVU stuff is interesting. Think it can transport HD guides with transition effects, alpha blending, anti-aliasing and effects (like blurring, glass-look, scaling, interpolation, etc). ?

That OnLive streaming video game service proves that it's possible to stream full 3D graphics and interact with it realtime as if it were a fully featured gaming console. 

Also could receivers like the HR24 theoretically be loaded with an RVU server, or older receivers loaded with an RVU client (if they don't have the horsepower to generate advanced graphics by themselves). After all it's software and as long as there's some kind of network connection ie) DECA, it should be theoretically possible.


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## itzme

I saw the Samsung/DirecTV release and it mentioned specific Samsung models. My 2010 Samsung c8000 has full networking and DLNA features, and I'm wondering why RVU couldn't be used on it. Are the current models missing certain hardware?


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## LameLefty

itzme said:


> I saw the Samsung/DirecTV release and it mentioned specific Samsung models. My 2010 Samsung c8000 has full networking and DLNA features, and I'm wondering why RVU couldn't be used on it. Are the current models missing certain hardware?


The 2011 D series, available in March, seem to be the first ones compatible, per Samsung's press release.


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## itzme

LameLefty said:


> The 2011 D series, available in March, seem to be the first ones compatible, per Samsung's press release.


Sadly, that's how I read it, too. I was just wondering what piece of hardware or what software might prevent the feature from working on 2010 models.


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## cypherx

"itzme" said:


> Sadly, that's how I read it, too. I was just wondering what piece of hardware or what software might prevent the feature from working on 2010 models.


Moca/DECA? But I don't see why you couldn't just use a media converter or set back box connected to Ethernet on those TV's. A little firmware update and bam, good to go! However I take it Samsung wants to sell new TV's. They will make more money that way.


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## Sixto

Man, Verizon is announcing all kinds of cool stuff.

Wonder when/if they'll ever implement all this.


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## BobaBird

Dish doesn't have much in the way of new product this year unless you count the Google TV box that can be connected to their HD DVRs. Their big news is mainly in apps that have been added (see Android PR thread) and updated and the availability of 3D on the top 922 receiver. TV Everywhere via Sling gets heavy promotion. The long-awaited Sling 300 receiver that pairs with the Sling Adapter should be available in a few months.

Pictures and more at http://www.dishuser.org/ces2011.php

I was also impressed with the Toshiba glasses-free 3D. The viewing angle for the demo is quite tight, you can stand next to the person in the middle and get the effect but moving farther to the side causes the image to look like glasses are needed. The prime viewing angles will be widened before it hits the streets at the end of the year.


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## Nick

What's that vapor rising from the CES circus tent? :eek2:


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## Alan Gordon

itzme said:


> I saw the Samsung/DirecTV release and it mentioned specific Samsung models. My 2010 Samsung c8000 has full networking and DLNA features, and I'm wondering why RVU couldn't be used on it. Are the current models missing certain hardware?





LameLefty said:


> The 2011 D series, available in March, seem to be the first ones compatible, per Samsung's press release.





itzme said:


> Sadly, that's how I read it, too. I was just wondering what piece of hardware or what software might prevent the feature from working on 2010 models.


Though I'm one of those people who would miss the extra hard drive space and tuners, I actually really like the idea of RVU... and is so far one of the few things I've seen remotely interesting (to me) come out of CES (even though we all knew it was coming).

As someone who may soon be in the market for a new HDTV (if I can scrounge up the money), I find the idea intriguing, BUT sadly, none of these TVs appear to be 3D... a must for me. 

~Alan


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## Doug Brott

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Nice!
> Who all did you guys get to meet with from DirecTV and what all was discussed if thats allowed to share?
> 
> looking forward to more from you guys.


All the cool DIRECTV people ..

except Earl and satelliteracer


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## Doug Brott

cypherx said:


> That RVU stuff is interesting. Think it can transport HD guides with transition effects, alpha blending, anti-aliasing and effects (like blurring, glass-look, scaling, interpolation, etc). ?


:scratchin .. I'm not exactly sure what you mean. RVU basically means a server does all of the work and the client is the display. It's almost like casting the display signal to another room like you may cast your voice to another person (if you were a ventriloquist).


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## Lord Vader

You mean like Achmed the dead terrorist???


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## DJPellegrino

Lord Vader said:


> You mean like Achmed the dead terrorist???


...are you scared? :grin:


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## cypherx

"Doug Brott" said:


> :scratchin .. I'm not exactly sure what you mean. RVU basically means a server does all of the work and the client is the display. It's almost like casting the display signal to another room like you may cast your voice to another person (if you were a ventriloquist).


Well I attribute RVU like VNC or Terminal Services on a PC. The higher resolution and color depth, the slower the interaction is. Now if bandwidth is controlled on a closed network, maybe it won't have an issue. I'm just curious if the RVU server can push a 720p or 1080i HDUI to the clients, with transition effects, alpha blending and full 32-bit graphics. Or will RVU servers and clients be limited to a 480p, 64 color UI...


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## harsh

cypherx said:


> I'm just curious if the RVU server can push a 720p or 1080i HDUI to the clients, with transition effects, alpha blending and full 32-bit graphics. Or will RVU servers and clients be limited to a 480p, 64 color UI...


Why would they need to push the UI. Shouldn't it be implemented on the client as a "skin"?


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## cypherx

harsh said:


> Why would they need to push the UI. Shouldn't it be implemented on the client as a "skin"?


What if they want to update the UI or make changes during it's lifetime? Would the clients have to be reflashed? Isn't the point of RVU ultra low cost clients? Maybe at a low cost implementation, they only want to maintain and manage the server.


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## harsh

cypherx said:


> What if they want to update the UI or make changes during it's lifetime? Would the clients have to be reflashed? Isn't the point of RVU ultra low cost clients? Maybe at a low cost implementation, they only want to maintain and manage the server.


A skin could be easily downloaded into RAM at any time but presumably this would only be necessary when you establish a connection to a server. If an update happened, you could push a new skin (or possibly continue to use the old one).

In either case, I don't think user involvement is necessary or even desirable.


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## BattleScott

No need to guess, the website pretty much lays everything out. The white-paper does a pretty good job of outlining how each aspect works.

http://www.rvualliance.org/


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## xmetalx

Lord Vader said:


> You mean like Achmed the dead terrorist???





DJPellegrino said:


> ...are you scared? :grin:


Silence.... I keel youuuuuu! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001

cypherx said:


> What if they want to update the UI or make changes during it's lifetime? Would the clients have to be reflashed? Isn't the point of RVU ultra low cost clients? Maybe at a low cost implementation, they only want to maintain and manage the server.


Yes....you are correct...they can and do perform updates all the time with firmware via flash updates. Having to do one update to a server in the RVU-based HD DVR alignment makes this even less of an event.


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## harsh

cypherx said:


> I'm just curious if the RVU server can push a 720p or 1080i HDUI to the clients, with transition effects, alpha blending and full 32-bit graphics. Or will RVU servers and clients be limited to a 480p, 64 color UI...


Static bitmaps and instructions for a graphics engine shouldn't take up a lot of bandwidth.


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