# ASK: Audio problems with 811?



## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

Hi all, 

I have a 921, 510 and used to have a 6000. My wife's parents have two 811's. I just hooked up their living room with a surround sound setup (yamaha receiver, etc.). I have the 811 hooked up with an optical cable and they are telling my that they only have sound in one speaker. I do not live with them and am not going to go over to look at the setup till friday. Does the 811 have problems with the optical output? Should i kill it and just leave it analog? I have never had problems with stereo sources using the optical on my 6000, 510, or 921. But does the 811 have issues? is that what the DD fix in 285 is all about?

Thanks, Jon

PS Jason, i saw some of your informed posts on satelliteguys.us no i know why you know what your talking about....cool


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I would do a couple fo things first racer. Get the model number and search here and on Sat Guys to see if it is listed as a problem receiver. Yes the 811 has a few issue left with DD that 285 is suppose to fix. Do you know the version the 811 is running. Another think you could try is turn the 811 to PCM only and see if you only head sound out one speaker. I personally have not heard this symptom relating to DD, but I have not been following the exact symptoms with the DD very closely. I got the impression it either worked or did not. 

If PCM turns out to get around the issue, I would keep it in that mode until you get 285 comes out. Assuming this one does not have 285 in it. 

I would also check to make sure something didn't get pulled out. I always check the easy stuff first.


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## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

that sounds like some good things to try ron. Thanks! I didnt think about telling him to try to switch it to PCM. I know that he likes to mess with his stuff and might have taken out some of his gear for some dumb reason......it might be some loose this or that. I was mostly wondering if the DD problem with the 811 is an all or nothing thing or if it can show up as one channel type issues. Thanks Jon

PS Ron, where is so cal are you located? I live in westminster.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I have not heard it described as a one speaker issue.

Here is a thread that discusses the issue. There is actually a description provided by Jason on the root cause.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=348818&postcount=17

Below is the list that I maintained of receivers that people reported. I am sure this not complete, but you might find the unit in this list.

Known Problem Units
Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080 preamp
Marantz SR4000
Technics SH-AC500D
Technics SA-DX950
RCA RT2400
Harman Kardon AVR55
Onkyo SR601 (Possible User Configuration Error)
Adcom GTP-760 Preamp/Processor
Zenith DA3520

Working but with some problems
Kenwood VR-3080
Pioneer VSX-1014 (there is a link to AVS Forum for more info)

Known Working Units
Yamaha RX-V800
Yamaha HTR5640
Yamaha rxv-1400
Yamaha RXV-3300
Yamaha RX-Z9
Pionee Elite VX-26TX
JVC 8030
JVC-6008V
ParaSound AVC-2500u
Sony STR-DB930
Sony STR-DA1000ES.
Sony STR-DE885
Sony DEH935
Sony DEH985
Denon 3805
Onkyo TX-DS989
RCA RT2600
Bryston SP1 Surround Processor 
JVC RX-6022VSL

I live in North Orange County.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

The big thing I'd check is all of your speaker wires. It sounds more like a issue with speaker wires than with the 811. My understanding is that the DD issues with the 811 causes DD not to work at all, so if you are only getting sound out of one speaker I'd say its a issue with the DD decoder (your Yamaha surround sound receiver), speakers, and/or speaker wires. What you could do to eliminate the 811 is either hook up another DD source or switch to another DD source and see if the problem persists, if it does then you know it's not the 811.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Below is the list that I maintained of receivers that people reported. I am sure this not complete, but you might find the unit in this list.
> 
> Known Problem Units
> Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080 preamp
> ...


Do you still have this list up? I could have swore that I put in RCA RT2600 as a working unit, but I don't see it on your list of working units. Anyways, if you'd like you could add it to your list or if you still have this list up here (DBStalk) tell me where so I could go over to it and post this info. Let me know.

Anyways the RT2600 works great, no problems, haven't had ANY problems using it with my 811.

P.S. Perhaps this is going to be a dead issue soon, (whenever 285 and 286 go wide spread, and if they do fix the issues with DD) But I figured I'd let you know that the RCA RT2600 does work fine with the 811.


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

I didn't realize Ron was mantaining a list either (Thanks, Ron).

FWIW, the Bryston SP1 Surround Processor works fine as well.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

It was actualy a list I compiled a while back from a number of sources when people were having a lot of issues with DD. If there are still issues with 287 I we will be happy to start another one and sticky it here.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

I run 2 Yamaha and a Onkyo receiver at home. None of my units have had an issue with Dolby Digital. If you get sound but only from one speaker I would suggest running a speaker test on the AV Receiver before getting any further. Check to make sure the Yamaha produces sound from each speaker in test mode. If it doesn't check your wiring. If it does try PCM only mode on the 811 and see if it starts working. P287 should clear up any remaining SPDIF issues. Numerous engineers are wainting for the real world feedback on this correction.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Damn... Forgot about the speaker test.  Too many long days!! Definitely start with the speaker test. J5. that will isolate the issue for sure.


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## rocky01 (Mar 20, 2005)

Hello: 

You may add the Adcom GTP-760 Preamp/Processor to the list. I have confirmed directly with the manufacturer, Adcom that: 

"There is a known problem with the Dolby Digital output of the Dish Network 811 receiver where it will not work with some dolby digital processors. They are supposedly working on a firmware upgrade to fix this problem. You should contact dish network customer service and ask about the firmware update."

It appears that 2.85 firmware has not spooled to the Northeast yet, as I have been waiting for weeks. Curiously, I now see posting regarding a new version 2.87. Especially after speaking with Tech Support some days ago and being told that a version 3.x is due to be released in April ... I'm confused ~ and certainly anxious for Dish Network to resolve this loss of 5.1 multi-channel capability.


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## smoke (Apr 7, 2005)

Ron,
Here is another to add to your list of systems that *do not work * with the 811 in regards to receiving DD sound. Zenith DA3520.
I did like many others when I first received my 811 and all of a sudden did not get DD. Checked all the connections, put in a DVD and it played fine with DD, checked all the settings,etc. Contacted Dish tech and was told there was no problem. Contacted customer support with no resoluttion. Finally got thru to advanced support who admitted the problem. Tried to get my old 6000 back or a credit (since we just upgraded to a bunch of HD stations), absolutely no positive reponse from Dish. Sure hope since I sent in my DVD/surround sound unit info in that the 285 will fix it!


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## rocky01 (Mar 20, 2005)

Smoke, speak with advanced tech support again and request the credit.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

Welcome, Rocky and Smoke! :hi: :welcome_s


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Added your receiver to the list. For everyone that is seeing this issue, I would appreciate feeback on if 287 fixed your problem. Be sure to to change your 811 for DD and hopefully you will get your sound back. 

And Welcome Rocky and Smokey!!! Look forward to hearing the feedback.


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## rocky01 (Mar 20, 2005)

thanks for the welcome all - together with the lively forums, it's a salve for my dish-subscriber jangled nerves :nono2:


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> .... Be sure to to change your 811 for DD and hopefully you will get your sound back.


Ron, I have never experienced the DD problem with my receiver and always get great DD sound when it's available. But the Dish installation guide is unclear. I have my 811 set on "PCM and DD", which seems to work just fine. Which setting should I use? I don't really see (hear?) any difference whether it's set on "PCM & DD" or just "DD"


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I read the manual. I could fully understand the comment of it being unclear. If memory serves me the DD/PCM bascially tries DD first and then falls back to PCM. I could be wrong. As for PCM and DD. For a none DD program I would not expect to hear any difference. The difference is when you watch a DD program. Especially a 5.1. Try switching then.


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## jbcheshire (Mar 15, 2005)

Ron,
I have a JVC RX-6022VSL receiver and it works with the 811 on the P284 software.
I will let you know if that changes once(if ever) I get the P287 update.


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## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

just in case anyone was curious. it had nothing to do with the 811. My stepfather simply thought all his 7 speakers were suppose to play at all times. I educated him about what 2-channel audio is, and how it is different from 5.1 or 6.1 audio.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

Jon


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

LOL... When I first put in my HT, I thought my reciever was bad only to release that there are a lot of DVDs out there that don't put a lot of sound to the backs. Glad to hear it was not the 811.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> I read the manual. I could fully understand the comment of it being unclear. If memory serves me the DD/PCM bascially tries DD first and then falls back to PCM. I could be wrong. As for PCM and DD. For a none DD program I would not expect to hear any difference. The difference is when you watch a DD program. Especially a 5.1. Try switching then.


Your 811 should be set on PCM and DD because if you are watching something that is not DD 5.1 you will not have any sound coming from your speakers on your DD receiver if your 811 is set to DD only. However, if you have it set to PCM and DD you will be able to use Dolby Pro Logic 1 or 2 when on a channel that isn't DD 5.1. (and of course it would be DD5.1 on stations that were broadcasting DD5.1) PCM only would cause your surround sound system to only go to DPL 1 or 2 even if it was a DD5.1 program!

Your 811 should be set to PCM only when you have a surround sound system(s) that has a conflict with the 811, because if it wasn't and you were on a station that was broadcasting DD5.1 it would kill the signal and therefore cause you to have no sound at all!(from your surround sound system)


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

I have a Pioneer VSX-D514 hooked up to the 811 (P284) and it works fine.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I tried both the PCM/DD and DD on a non-DD broadcast and still recevied Audio with the DD only setting. This is what lead me to think that PCM/DD might be a fall back setting. Use DD first if receiver supports and PCM if it does not. I do agree with you that one should use PCM/DD in 90% of the cases and PCM only if they have DD problems or a receiver that does not support DD. The 811 manual is definitely not clear on what these settings mean.


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

As far as I know S/PDIF is unidirectional, i.e. there is no way for the 811 to know if the amplifier/decoder can accept a given data format or not. The way I understand it (and in fact is documented here in the EKB section) the 811 will output DD if available or PCM when not when set to the DD/PCM setting. If set to only DD, no audio signal is generated when the source is only PCM.
Indeed, I experimented with my receiver (Pioneer VSX-D514) and the 811 settings to see what would happen. If set to DD only, the Pioneer always remained in DD mode but no audio was produced for channels that don't have DD. If the 811 is set to DD/PCM, I could observe the Pioneer switching between PCM/Dolby ProLogic mode and DD as I changed channels. Set to PCM, the Pioneer remained in PCM/Dolby ProLogic mode only.

http://www.dbstalk.com/ekb/236


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> I tried both the PCM/DD and DD on a non-DD broadcast and still recevied Audio with the DD only setting. This is what lead me to think that PCM/DD might be a fall back setting. Use DD first if receiver supports and PCM if it does not. I do agree with you that one should use PCM/DD in 90% of the cases and PCM only if they have DD problems or a receiver that does not support DD. The 811 manual is definitely not clear on what these settings mean.


Does your amplifier/decoder have a mode indication? Can it display the format of the incoming S/PDIF data? Mine displays the current format on the front panel. I would be interested what yours displays (if anything) as you change channels from DD to non-DD channels and back.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well that clarifies things a lot jpetersohn and I am going to have to take my 811 for another spin. Looks like Tony's description is correct. However, this did not seem to be consistent with my experience, but maybe I did something wrong. As to my receiver displaying DD. It does and maybe that is where my confusions started. 

Thanks for the link. I am sure that moman will find that one useful for sure.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I redid my test last night and Tony description is correct. Boy did I wonder off into the weeds. Nice link too.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

I played with the DD/PCM settings and agree with the findings. However, it seems that on occasion, I lose my center channel when in DD. It's not all the time and not one particular sat channel. But it does happen. For example, the other night I was watching Leno, which broadcasts OTA in DD. The center channel was dead, which made it difficult to hear Jay speak. The audience applause, music, etc. was loud & clear. When local comercials came on (non-DD) the center channel returned. It did this all night long. I thought this might be the station, but the same issue occurred on a CBS DD broadcast a few days later.

Anyone else experience this? I never saw it before P287 but am not comfortable calling this a "bug" yet.


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

I have not seen that with P284.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

jpetersohn said:


> I have not seen that with P284.


Nor have I. So I'm wondering if any P287 users are sharing this experience. It seems to only be a DD issue and isn't all the time. Again, I'm not fully convinced this is an issue, but I've seen it twice on different OTA channels.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

moman19 said:


> .. other night I was watching Leno, which broadcasts OTA in DD. The center channel was dead, which made it difficult to hear Jay speak. The audience applause, music, etc. was loud & clear....


I noticed the same thing when watching Monday Night Football last year (P281). I will tune in Jay tonight but I'll bet it is a broadcast issue and not a software issue.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

bavaria72 said:


> I noticed the same thing when watching Monday Night Football last year (P281). I will tune in Jay tonight but I'll bet it is a broadcast issue and not a software issue.


You're probably correct. I will tune in too. Let me know what you find. I assume you're up on P287.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

moman19 said:


> I played with the DD/PCM settings and agree with the findings. However, it seems that on occasion, I lose my center channel when in DD. It's not all the time and not one particular sat channel. But it does happen. For example, the other night I was watching Leno, which broadcasts OTA in DD. The center channel was dead, which made it difficult to hear Jay speak. The audience applause, music, etc. was loud & clear. When local comercials came on (non-DD) the center channel returned. It did this all night long. I thought this might be the station, but the same issue occurred on a CBS DD broadcast a few days later.


I recommend leaving the setting at PCM/DD. If you select DD Only you will loose part if not all of your audio when the broadcast diverts from DD. For example if your watching a OTA broadcast in DD and a commercial comes on that is not mixed in DD you will loose part or all of your sound until the DD encoded program returns. Also same is true for PCM only. If in PCM Only you will not be able to decode the DD signal. Leaving it in PCM/DD your receiver will be able to switch between the modes automatically.


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

Jason Nipp said:


> I recommend leaving the setting at PCM/DD. If you select DD Only you will loose part if not all of your audio when the broadcast diverts from DD. For example if your watching a OTA broadcast in DD and a commercial comes on that is not mixed in DD you will loose part or all of your sound until the DD encoded program returns. Also same is true for PCM only. If in PCM Only you will not be able to decode the DD signal. Leaving it in PCM/DD your receiver will be able to switch between the modes automatically.


Is this really true? The receiver has to downmix DD for the analog ports anyways, I believe the PCM stream is just the digital form of this prior to D/A conversion. I would assume this works like most DVD players, which will downmix DD to PCM if configured that way on the S/PDIF port.
Also, for those that have "broken" receivers, the recommendation has been to set the 811 to PCM only -- yet they seem to get audio on all channels.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

moman19 said:


> You're probably correct. I will tune in too. Let me know what you find. I assume you're up on P287.


Yup, I'm on 287. Watched Leno last night and the audio quality was fine (both OTA and satellite). I would do what Jason suggested and leave it selected for both PCM/DD. That way you are covered either way.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

jpetersohn said:


> Is this really true? The receiver has to downmix DD for the analog ports anyways, I believe the PCM stream is just the digital form of this prior to D/A conversion. I would assume this works like most DVD players, which will downmix DD to PCM if configured that way on the S/PDIF port.
> Also, for those that have "broken" receivers, the recommendation has been to set the 811 to PCM only -- yet they seem to get audio on all channels.


I was asked to reiterate that for 811 users. I would say that the people who asked me to post the recommendation are accurate in their advice. :sure:

Also to answer the second part of your question/statement, I didn't say you couldn't receive any audio while in PCM only mode. My statement says you will not be able to decode Dolby Digital 5.1 if in PCM only mode.

Hope this helps.


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

Jason Nipp said:


> I was asked to reiterate that for 811 users. I would say that the people who asked me to post the recommendation are accurate in their advice. :sure:
> 
> Also to answer the second part of your question/statement, I didn't say you couldn't receive any audio while in PCM only mode. My statement says you will not be able to decode Dolby Digital 5.1 if in PCM only mode.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to say.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

jpetersohn said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood what you were trying to say.


No prob, there's nothing wrong with asking for clarification. I will fully admit I have a tendancy to get vague on sensitive topics.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

bavaria72 said:


> Yup, I'm on 287. Watched Leno last night and the audio quality was fine (both OTA and satellite). I would do what Jason suggested and leave it selected for both PCM/DD. That way you are covered either way.


Ditto here. But you're not receiving Leno in DD on the satellite anyway, are you?


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