# L214 vigil thread



## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

With all the speculation as to when the next SW release is going to start spooling...let's make it a race to see who spots it spooling first!

Hey Mark...how about a prize?


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## bluegreg (May 10, 2004)

yeah a prize like a 924-pvr!
since the 921 has messed with our heads and if you have the freaking time to be the first to see the sw spool you deserve some sanity. since L214 is the next level of 921 hell!


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

My guess: June 2. Tech Chat said by the end of the month, but I doubt it's this week.


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## Leroy (Jan 21, 2005)

My guess May 25 10:00 am Eastern time  

Leroy


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## eclipsetrb (Jan 19, 2005)

Sometime between now and when hell begins to freeze over I'm aiming for the later. Like it matters if it fixes every single thing thats wrong with it now something else will be broken its called job security for the engineers.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

How about today around 2:00 PDST? Today is a good day for the L214 update.


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## ggw2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

I don't think you'll see an update until all the season "final" episodes are done. I think that most wrap up this week (there would be h*ll to pay if the update takes out a bunch of 921s!). Just my 2.5 cents worth.. Gerry


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## sammy61 (Aug 26, 2004)

I love the smell of a good update in the morning!


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## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

bluegreg said:


> yeah a prize like a 924-pvr!
> since the 921 has messed with our heads and if you have the freaking time to be the first to see the sw spool you deserve some sanity. since L214 is the next level of 921 hell!


Agree! It can't fix all the problems with this POS.I have to not only do 2 or 3 hard resets a day now I have to wait at least 30 minutes with it unplugged or it won't reboot.$1000.00 POS!


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

ggw2000 said:


> I don't think you'll see an update until all the season "final" episodes are done. I think that most wrap up this week (there would be h*ll to pay if the update takes out a bunch of 921s!). Just my 2.5 cents worth.. Gerry


 Nope - they couldn't care less about that.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Well, it's 0500 EST and no download. Dish usually, but not always spools at this time for downloads scheduled for that day. Maybe next week, which means the following week, which means the following week, which means infinity.


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer (Feb 20, 2005)

Let's hope for today or sometimes this week. Any input on this, Mark? Thanks.


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## rstaples (Sep 17, 2004)

SummitAdvantageRetailer said:


> Let's hope for today or sometimes this week. Any input on this, Mark? Thanks.


Yes Mark, why the silence? We would all like to know if it is comming soon or if there is another problem found with the BETA. I, for one, certainly do not want it released if it will cause new problems but it has been more than a month past the original release estimate. Even if it takes another month, it would be nice to know the bad news now. :nono2:


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

rstaples said:


> Yes Mark, why the silence? We would all like to know if it is comming soon or if there is another problem found with the BETA. I, for one, certainly do not want it released if it will cause new problems but it has been more than a month past the original release estimate. Even if it takes another month, it would be nice to know the bad news now. :nono2:


I'll answer for Mark. It is official, L214 will not make it this month. I really can't go into detail, but I'll say there is one more issue they want to work out before the L214 is released.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Allen Noland said:


> I'll answer for Mark. It is official, L214 will not make it this month. I really can't go into detail, but I'll say there is one more issue they want to work out before the L214 is released.


Well, I'd rather they wait than pixel-ate... :grin:


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

:bonk1:


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

AVJohnnie said:


> Well, I'd rather they wait than pixel?ate... :grin:


I just wish it would work "NOW". I'm tired of waiting. I,ve been waiting for 17 months.


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## rstaples (Sep 17, 2004)

Eagles said:


> I just wish it would work "NOW". I'm tired of waiting. I,ve been waiting for 17 months.


Obviously we all share your frustration, but I would rather wait until they get it right than dole it out in frustrating minor fixes with accompanying breaks.

What concerns me more about this VERY long wait is that Dish may wanting to get this as close to right as possible so they can stop working on the 921. I am not saying they would not do a minor fix here or there but the Dish announcement that we would not get the promised name based recording and now the unusually long wait between updates, along with the fact that Mark does not seem to respond as he once did seems to be signaling the end of the 921 support as we once knew it. To support this note that, while we have been waiting on our update, the following Dish receivers have received one or more updates:

301
311
322
501, 508, 510
522
6000
625
7100/7200
942
WEBTV CLIENT

I am not trying to start a conspiracy theory here, just food for thought.


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## astrotrf (Apr 5, 2004)

Allen Noland said:


> I'll answer for Mark. It is official, L214 will not make it this month. I really can't go into detail, but I'll say there is one more issue they want to work out before the L214 is released.


I find it unfortunate and more than a little fascinating that they won't let you tell us what bugs they're working on or what bugs will be fixed in upcoming releases until sometime *after* the software has spooled. It's also not confidence-inspiring when they very, very seldom allow comment on the causes of problems, and even then in only extremely vague terms.

Of course, this is probably all lawyer-driven; if they don't publicly admit that bugs exist, that makes it all the harder to sue them for it.

It's too bad; a little _glasnost_ from The Gang That Couldn't Code Straight would probably make us a little more sympathetic.

So sometime after May 17th, when 214 was due "next week", they decided that if they delayed a couple of more weeks, they would have time to "squish" one more bug? Liberal application of that logic will delay the release for *years*.

Terry


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

astrotrf said:


> So sometime after May 17th, when 214 was due "next week", they decided that if they delayed a couple of more weeks, they would have time to "squish" one more bug? Liberal application of that logic will delay the release for *years*.Terry


Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Notice no ETA on the next release. At least they are learning from their mistakes :lol:


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## bluegreg (May 10, 2004)

I think the team at eldon is one very cheap person!


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## UT_Texan (Dec 9, 2004)

it would appear to me that the delay would have to do with the zsr issue. I think that is the biggest issue on the table. The next would be the stuck aspect ratio. Mark had posted that it would take two updates to fix the zsr issue. They could easily fix this "one last bug" in the second update that will fix the zsr. I mean come on how hard is it to look at the code changes that were made that caused these new issues to understand where you screwed up.
I think they need to just delete the 921 forums as they haven't served much real purpose in the last few months except for us to gripe


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

astrotrf said:


> So sometime after May 17th, when 214 was due "next week", they decided that if they delayed a couple of more weeks, they would have time to "squish" one more bug? Liberal application of that logic will delay the release for *years*.
> 
> Terry


In todays society it could also be a crutch for job security. It is more logical, in the private sector, to fire those of incompetence. But hey, I don't want anyone to become politically incorrect. 



UT_Texan said:


> I think they need to just delete the 921 forums as they haven't served much real purpose in the last few months except for us to gripe


The forum has kept several at bay with their axes, chain saws, TNT, and water cannons. So my vote is to keep the forum until all the bugs are squashed.


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## eclipsetrb (Jan 19, 2005)

Dude till all the bugs are squached...damn I hope I live that long.... I mean I like you guys and all that but I don't know if Im ready for a long term commitment like that....


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

astrotrf said:


> I find it unfortunate and more than a little fascinating that they won't let you tell us what bugs they're working on or what bugs will be fixed in upcoming releases until sometime *after* the software has spooled. It's also not confidence-inspiring when they very, very seldom allow comment on the causes of problems, and even then in only extremely vague terms.
> 
> Of course, this is probably all lawyer-driven; if they don't publicly admit that bugs exist, that makes it all the harder to sue them for it.
> 
> ...


I'm sure it is lawyer driven.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

UT_Texan said:


> ... the delay would have to do with the zsr issue. I think that is the biggest issue on the table.


Nope - That and the other bugs (oops, I mean _undocumented features_) are just minor concerns in the greater scheme - I'll bet that the holdup this time is due to getting the Channel 100 feature _(Mark warned us was coming with this release)_ functional enough so that *you can pay your bill with it.* :sure:


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

AVJohnnie said:


> Nope - That and the other bugs (oops, I mean _undocumented features_) are just minor concerns in the greater scheme - I'll bet that the holdup this time is due to getting the Channel 100 feature _(Mark warned us was coming with this release)_ functional enough so that *you can pay your bill with it.* :sure:


It isn't dish home. That is scheduled next after L214.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Allen Noland said:


> It isn't dish home.


Darn... Well Allen, that's why I don't _do_ Vegas or Lotto.  So anyone else care to place a bet? :lol:

... and I really thought I had it too... darn, darn, darn...


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

Mark must be on vacation since he hasn't posted anything since Sunday night May 22.


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

ebaltz said:


> Mark must be on vacation since he hasn't posted anything since Sunday night May 22.


Mark has a new project at work that is consuming most of his time. I'm trying my best to keep the shop going here. L214 not coming this week isn't making that job very easy. Guess it is my fault for getting peoples hope up about it actually coming this week.

When I got word it wasn't coming my first thought was the number of complaints would be posted on the forum. I was the same way though. I was always looking for info on when the next release was coming. I had one of the first 501's, and I was always looking around for information on when the next Update was coming. If information was floating around about a release and it didn't pan out I was upset also. But then I think about how things are with D*, in that their updates are usually a complete surprise.

Anyway, Stay tuned.


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

I just hope the extra time that Dish is taking to get this one out, will be reflected in the quality of the next release. Let's not have another half-baked update the introduces new "features".


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I got a call from ADV Tech Support last night. It was a follow-up to an issue I had with my replacement 921 (sluggish or no resopnse from the remote and then no response from the front panel either until doing a power cord reboot).

Long story short, he gave me some insight on what's happening with 214. Apparently the various fixes and features that will comprise 214 have been pulled-out, and in some cses put back into 214. He gave me the impression (i.e. by reading between the lines) that they are trying aufully hard to make 214 not be another fix one bug create two new ones update.

He would not confirm about Dish Home (another tech did in the previous call). When I brought up the OTA guide issue he did say that PSIP data from the OTA's will uiltimately be the source of guide data (YESSSS!) and also fix some channel maping issues (one of my OTA's no longer maps to their analog-01 channel number, showing up as Rf-digital channel number). I shared with him some problems unique to the SD outputs (as confirmed by another poster here regarding the pulsation of some color on only one station in the market).

Hanng in there everybody, better days are coming!


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Allen Noland said:


> Guess it is my fault for getting peoples hope up about it actually coming this week.


It's not even remotely your fault. Dish publically announced 5/19 on the Tech Chat.

Those of us that have been here awhile know well that 921 software releases NEVER come on time.

There's obviously something very wrong there. 3-4 months to find and squash the ZSR bug is absurd.

Those of us who've been here awhile also know to take all E* statements with a grain for salt. Comments from first line CSRs are completely useless. Even the advanced tech suppose doesn't seem to really know what is going on at Eldon.

I certainly wouldn't try to make any assumptions about continued 921 support based on Mark's involvement here. I have a feeling that when he volunteered his time to take on this task he had no idea they would still be trying to stabilize the box after 1.5 years in the field.

We'll likely get continued low-level support for as long as there are 921's in the field.

Maybe well see Dish Home. Maybe not. They might be swapping in mpeg 4 boxes before this gets done (we know how quickly 921 releases get out). Never use Dish home anyway (it's easier to grab the laptop).


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## ggw2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

Apparently the various fixes and features that will comprise 214 have been pulled-out, and in some cses put back into 214. He gave me the impression (i.e. by reading between the lines) that they are trying aufully hard to make 214 not be another fix one bug create two new ones update.



I may not be the "sharpest tool in the woodshed" but my guess is that if FIXes have been taken out(?) then I would assume that it would be hard to break anything!   Gerry


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

The term Advanced Tech Support no-longer means much to me. I called about a guide data problem on one of my OTA locals. The lady was insistant that they didn't provide that information. I told her that I pay 5.99 a month for locals just so that my guide data on my OTA DTV channels. She says "We don't force you to pay for anything, would you like me to remove them from your account?". I ask her flat out, "You don't have a Clue?". dead silence. 

The story about stuff being removed from L214 is, well, it varies from my observation from the software I"m testing. The story sounds like what happen with L213. Everything that is in L214 was supposed to be in L213. Because of a Daylight Savings time problem all the original fixes were pulled and the DST stuff put in. We had it for like 2 days in beta then L213 came out. It was about a week later we were back to working on the L214 stuff.


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## Rodney (Aug 22, 2003)

I certainly hope the one item they want to get right, which is causing a delay in the release of L214, is the fix which eliminates the problem that caused data to be deleted from the hard drive. It would almost be criminal to have this fix and not release it because of some other non related issue. If there was ever an item that met the qualifications for a "EMERGENCY RELEASE" this is it.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"When I brought up the OTA guide issue he did say that PSIP data from the OTA's will uiltimately be the source of guide data (YESSSS!) and also fix some channel mapping issues (one of my OTA's no longer maps to their analog-01 channel number, showing up as Rf-digital channel number). "_

Interesting! I had STRONGLY suggested this about 6 months ago. Since I placed my suggestion directly with the E*, not eldon development team or this forum, the suggestion arrived intact without modification or lay interpretation. I actually laid out the logic behind how the PSIP should be implemented. Additionally, I advised that the time to do this was not now (January 2005) but in about 5-6 months after the broadcast stations had the time to do their own testing on the PSIP mandatory guide requirement and hopefully, many will voluntarily include the full plate of guide data in their PSIP as they supply to the services. At that time the engineer did agree that what was suggested would be a good idea, it was not the current policy of E* to go that route, making OTA guide date a function of E* supplied service $$. I didn't expect them to simply say, "What a great idea and will do!" but hearing what you just stated tells me there is some discussion that this will ultimately happen. At least the suggestion didn't go into one ear and out the other at that time.

The problem everyone needs to understand about guide data and PSIP is that much of what we are used to in a DVR service is not mandatory, but voluntary with broadcast stations. Therefore you will have some cities with some stations doing it the way we like and others not but just complying with the bare minimum of the latest Feb 2005 FCC regulation. Fo those who absolutely have to have perfect guide data (as perfect as it gets with the 921) then the subscription is the best way to go, however for those who refuse to subscribe and pay the fee for that guide data, then if the 921 is made to "see" the PSIP guide data into the guide it will be a next best second choice where currently we have nothing, with PSIP we may have at least 8 hours of guide visible. Can't recall the exact minimum right now but 8 seems to ring a bell. It's certainly not 2 weeks although some station engineers I have talked to are planning to publish their complete guide from their programming dept.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback because as you know, suggesting stuff to E* is often like talking to a black hole.


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## mfrodsha (Sep 15, 2004)

My only major complaint with the 921 is the absolute strangeness by which the 921 is unable to do guide data with all the local digital channels. I mean, for crying out loud, we had a Samsung HD receiver before this, and it picked up guide data for each station, with a crazy amount of detail. I figured Dish was full of it when they replied that the broadcasters simply don't broadcast PSIP correctly. Obviously, I must've been dealing with the wrong tech.

Anyway, two things I think Dish can do to make a believer out of me:

1) have the L214 update before June 15 (I'm thinking August at this point)
2) receive local PSIP for guide information.

Who cares if the guide info is imperfect, as long as it's there? I'm so tired of seeing this non-broken up space of "Local Programming" on my guide for local HD channels.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

In a perfect world, every broadcaster would be compliant and offer what we expect but the fact is every broadcaster will have some degree of compliance and some will have gone above and beyond what's required. However, I agree that E* is out of line to prevent the 921 from at least seeing what's there. Like you said even if it's inaccurate, then all we need to do is deal with the local station but until the 921 sees the PSIP, what's the point? 

Some may recall when the 921 first began to use PSIP for channel mapping last July in an update. At that time, any station not using the (then) voluntary standard, was rendered invisible to the 921. Here, 2 stations were not using the voluntary standard, ABC and NBC affiliats. Anyone with a 921, lost those channels until the stations added the PSIP generators in their signal. Then there were problems until the PSIP was set up correctly. Many cities across the nation still are having PSIP channel mapping problems with their locals. Slowly, with the help of a few experts in the business, these stations are eventually getting the PSIP tables set up properly. 

Bottom line- dealing with OTA channels is always a local issue as long as the receiver is first compliant. Since the PSIP voluntary standard has now become regulation for the broadcaster, we now need to get E* to make their 921 recognize it. Then we can all work on our local stations for accuracy.


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## 921Blues (May 29, 2005)

Wow...I'm kicking myself. I just bought a 921 about 3 weeks ago. I usually look for forums like this beforehand, but this time I didn't. From what I can tell, I just wasted $550. I know the rest of you have been suffering longer and probably paid even more - and I really feel for you. I've been a dish customer for 6 years and started with the first 7100. I bought the 921 based on the reliability of my current 508. Big mistake.

I can't believe how bad this thing is. I have to reboot at least once a day to get control back for one issue or another. Sometimes, I even a reboot doesn't fix the problem - I need to unplug and sit. I guess my question now is - do I have a bad unit, or are these all the same experiences you are having? Here's just a sample of the things I've seen:

- Remote lockups. Sometimes only some buttons, other times the unit just stops responding to the remote all together. Only an unplug reboot fixes the problem.
- Stuck in HD or SD - HD/SD button has no effect or needs to be pressed multiple or an unpredictable number of times before the unit will respond. (Not a battery, interference or distance issue).
- Stuck aspect ratio
- Ultra long recordings - tried to record one program, ended up with over 1500 minutes recorded with no name
- Ultra slow response time. Try to play a recorded program, takes 2-3 minutes to start. Other times, responding to any key press can take a minute or more.
- Skip back button flakey behaviour. Sometimes it continues to go back further with each press, other times it keeps going back to the same spot over and over.
- After watching a recorded program, sometimes unit will lock up at 'over' and I can't delete the program
- Recordings and timers just mysteriously disappear

The bottom line is that I rarely experience the exact same issue more than once under the same circumstances, so I can't even reliably reproduce the problem. Every day brings a new 'surprise'. The most frustrating situations involve the remote not responding. I doubt that the problem is being caused by the remote itself because the remote still controls my other devices fine - and a reboot or unplug corrects the situation.

I have to add my dissatisfied voice to this forum.  Dish has really got a lot of nerve 'selling' this to it's customers when it is clearly not even a slightly reliable product. What's worse is that I bought it because I was told the 942 was being reserved for 'new' customers - which also really makes me seriously think about giving up on Dish. They clearly don't care about me or my loyalty. You'd think that spending hundreds of dollars on receivers and $120/month for 6 years would make you a valuable customer...

921Blues...


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

921Blues said:


> Wow...I'm kicking myself. I just bought a 921 about 3 weeks ago. I usually look for forums like this beforehand, but this time I didn't.You'd think that spending hundreds of dollars on receivers and $120/month for 6 years would make you a valuable customer...
> 
> 921Blues...


Welcome aboard 921Blues -

Keep reading through the forums. There is lots of factual, informational, and interesting data. It sounds like you have a lemon of a 921. I have problems with both of mine but it seems not nearly as frequently as yours. I'm hopping that the next software update, L214 will fix the problems. You should contact E* in attempt to get a more functional unit. E* does value you as a customer. The 921 just didn't turn out as a stellar product. In several months, E* is going to begin a conversion process to MPEG-4 technology. Once the 921 bugs get fixed (thinking positive here), the new technology may render our current units as obsolete and the new might be just as problematic as the current.


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## josem3 (Jan 6, 2005)

Well 921Blues,
You can exchange you 921 receiver like I did it few months ago when it started no working good or very similar like the one you have it. So far, I can not complain with my replacement unit. I may reboot the 921 receiver once a month(if I remember).For me,it's a good unit. I'm just waiting the new sofware(L214) what it's gonna do.


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## 921Blues (May 29, 2005)

Thanks guys - maybe I do have a lemon. I'll call Dish and see if they will exchange it. I'll also watch this forum more closely from now on. Hopefully a replacement will fix at least some of my problems.

921Blues


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## IamtheEggman (Sep 21, 2004)

921Blues said:


> Wow...I'm kicking myself. I just bought a 921 about 3 weeks ago. I usually look for forums like this beforehand, but this time I didn't. From what I can tell, I just wasted $550.


Look at the bright side, alot of us wasted a $1000 bucks  So you're ahead of the game.


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## kzosat (Aug 22, 2004)

I have been lucky, my 921 has been a pretty decent unit. Not ONE of the problems that many others have. Never missed a timer, no ZSR's etc. These units really do seem to be hit or miss. 

I wish it had NBR, but I am not holding my breath.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

921Blues said:


> I can't believe how bad this thing is. I have to reboot at least once a day to get control back for one issue or another. Sometimes, I even a reboot doesn't fix the problem - I need to unplug and sit.
> 921Blues...


Here is my voodoo reboot that seems to result in a fairly stable system. Put the unit in standby mode, pull the plug, and leave it in standby until the reboot is finished.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Larry Caldwell said:


> Here is my voodoo reboot that seems to result in a fairly stable system. Put the unit in standby mode, pull the plug, and leave it in standby until the reboot is finished.


It is pretty good voodoo too. It works well for me! Only if there was some way to force the EPG guide to re-populate.


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

Well it is finally happening  
I switched fully to cable after Adelphia significantly added more HD. Even the Voom 10 did not save Dish HD fo me.
Also, I am moving in July & the new area has all the main HD channels that I like on cable.
So I am selling my 921 starting today on Ebay!!
I still have a 501 in an exercise room with only Dish 60 now until I move in July. Then I will totally cut the Dish string (a long). I used to have AEP & HD. Thus Dish is losing a high end customer. I even got my 921 back on 12/30/03!!!!
Maybe next year after Dish, Directv, & cable compete for HD customers & with Mpeg 4 receivers, I will switch again back to satellite.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

tahoerob said:


> Well it is finally happening
> I switched fully to cable after Adelphia significantly added more HD. Even the Voom 10 did not save Dish HD fo me.
> Maybe next year after Dish, Directv, & cable compete for HD customers & with Mpeg 4 receivers, I will switch again back to satellite.


Sorry to see you leave tahoerob. On the bright side, maybe you will come back when E* is better.

John


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

tahoerob said:


> Well it is finally happening
> I switched fully to cable after Adelphia significantly added more HD. Even the Voom 10 did not save Dish HD fo me.
> Also, I am moving in July & the new area has all the main HD channels that I like on cable.
> So I am selling my 921 starting today on Ebay!!
> ...


FYI, here is my listing!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5779369732&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MESE:IT&rd=1

Overall, I would not hesitate to return to Dish. However, I will wait for MPEG 4 HD DVRs.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> _"When I brought up the OTA guide issue he did say that PSIP data from the OTA's will uiltimately be the source of guide data (YESSSS!) and also fix some channel mapping issues (one of my OTA's no longer maps to their analog-01 channel number, showing up as Rf-digital channel number). "_
> 
> Interesting! I had STRONGLY suggested this about 6 months ago. Since I placed my suggestion directly with the E*, not eldon development team or this forum, the suggestion arrived intact without modification or lay interpretation. I actually laid out the logic behind how the PSIP should be implemented. Additionally, I advised that the time to do this was not now (January 2005) but in about 5-6 months after the broadcast stations had the time to do their own testing on the PSIP mandatory guide requirement and hopefully, many will voluntarily include the full plate of guide data in their PSIP as they supply to the services. At that time the engineer did agree that what was suggested would be a good idea, it was not the current policy of E* to go that route, making OTA guide date a function of E* supplied service $$. I didn't expect them to simply say, "What a great idea and will do!" but hearing what you just stated tells me there is some discussion that this will ultimately happen. At least the suggestion didn't go into one ear and out the other at that time.
> 
> ...


When I mentioned PSIP as the source for EPG data the tech said that many customers have been requesting the same thing. We need to keep this message in the forfront! (Ironically, when I first started posting here Mark told me to cut out on the PSIP rhetoric). While many broadcasters don't get PSIP right the data E* sells to some of us is not right at times either (PBS stations are a prime example). BTW: If PBS HD is the same feed everywhere, why can't E* get that service's EPG data and plug it into the "n-01" spot, leaving the analog EPG for "n-02" on all PBS stations?

http://www.psip.org/psip_reasons.html


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Michael- The guide service for PBS is, indeed a mystery. Here, our PBS affiliate does a bunch of time shifting of it's programming as well as several local programs on multicast subchannels. I suspect that the inaccuracy is really a function of the poor data quality from each PBS station's program department. Most PBS stations cry poor house all the time and don't pay much for help compared to the other network stations in a given area. If the PBS local uses it's primary channel -1 as the network prime time feed, then that should be fairly accurate but the multicast subchannels may be programmed at the last minute. The service bureau's listings have to be in well in advance to be published. Local origination may not be timely enough to generate any sort of accuracy. All this is just a guess but even with FCC mandated PSIP guide data the guide data would still be far less than what we need and most have come to expect in the guide. All it would do is give those who get nothing, at least something in that space for a few hours at minimum. There still, IMHO, would be a value added for E* wishing to have a revenue generator on OTA guide data.


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## michaelL (Nov 30, 2004)

Michael P said:


> When I mentioned PSIP as the source for EPG data the tech said that many customers have been requesting the same thing. We need to keep this message in the forfront! (Ironically, when I first started posting here Mark told me to cut out on the PSIP rhetoric). While many broadcasters don't get PSIP right the data E* sells to some of us is not right at times either (PBS stations are a prime example). BTW: If PBS HD is the same feed everywhere, why can't E* get that service's EPG data and plug it into the "n-01" spot, leaving the analog EPG for "n-02" on all PBS stations?
> 
> http://www.psip.org/psip_reasons.html


Well, my analog EPG for PBS is the -01 spot. My PBS HD is on -02. Unless they use the PSIP data for the guide, everything else will be a hack.

Mike


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