# HD newb - a couple questions



## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

I'm an HD newb - I've had a 622 for more than a year now but just got an HDTV. I have a couple basic questions

1) DN does not carry my locals in HD although they are broadcast in HD. Checking antennaweb tells me that the locals are broadcast from roughly polar opposite directions and they are too far away (about 10 miles one way and 18 the other) for an omnidirectional antenna. So my only real option is to get 2 directional antennas, but is there a way to "merge" the signals? It's probably more complicated than a "splitter" but in reverse, right?

2) Along the same lines, I do have some HD channels now (anything that comes with the America's everything) but would like to *try out* DN's HD lineup before deciding to get it, so a) do they allow such a thing and b) not all of their HD channels are available with 1 dish (I only have 1 dish and I cannot "see" most of the HD lineup with it), so that means I'd need a second dish, right? Since I am off-contract will they require me to pay upfront for that or get another contract?

Thanks;


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## kariato (Dec 16, 2002)

bairdjc said:


> I'm an HD newb - I've had a 622 for more than a year now but just got an HDTV. I have a couple basic questions
> 
> 1) DN does not carry my locals in HD although they are broadcast in HD. Checking antennaweb tells me that the locals are broadcast from roughly polar opposite directions and they are too far away (about 10 miles one way and 18 the other) for an omnidirectional antenna. So my only real option is to get 2 directional antennas, but is there a way to "merge" the signals? It's probably more complicated than a "splitter" but in reverse, right?
> 
> ...


I can answer question 1. 
The transmitter distance is important but the power is more important. I have a directional antenna Terk HDTVlp and it is bi-directional at 180 degrees so a single antenna, it might work for both since they are 180 apart. It's a bit expensive but I've bought and thrown away many others and this one did the job. It actually picks up a low power station 30 miles away.

On question 2, I recommend doing it your self.
I installed my own 61.5 dish from a spare 18" dual LNB I had lying around at home. The SW21 and cable cost me less than $20. You can pick a dual Lnb 18" dish and DP 34 TWIN on ebay for a song. (This is asuming that you have Dish500 with dual pro lnb).


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

kariato said:


> I can answer question 1.
> The transmitter distance is important but the power is more important. I have a directional antenna Terk HDTVlp and it is bi-directional at 180 degrees so a single antenna, it might work for both since they are 180 apart. It's a bit expensive but I've bought and thrown away many others and this one did the job. It actually picks up a low power station 30 miles away.
> 
> On question 2, I recommend doing it your self.
> I installed my own 61.5 dish from a spare 18" dual LNB I had lying around at home. The SW21 and cable cost me less than $20. You can pick a dual Lnb 18" dish and DP 34 TWIN on ebay for a song. (This is asuming that you have Dish500 with dual pro lnb).


thanks for the answer. The stations arent exactly 180 degrees apart - actually upon checking antennaweb again, the 3 "sets" of digital stations are at 242, 325 and 346, and it recommends a red antenna for 2 (uhf and vhf) and a blue antenna for 5 (all uhf). I guess antennaweb takes terrain into account in its suggestions (I entered my address) (along with distance) so the colors should be conservative suggestions.

If I decide to go the antenna route, the antenna will most certainly be outdoors, and probably mounted with the dish(es). I have no problem paying more for an antenna if I know it will work (and not have to buy multiple ones, wasting my time).

Regarding the dish - I never thought of installing it myself - the existing dish was installed by DN and aside from the 3 wires coming out of the dish itself, there is no other DN equipment (except for the receiver, obviously). I have plenty of RG6. The SW21 - I see it has 2 dish inputs but only 1 output - the receiver has 2 dish inputs, so would I need 2 of these? How much do you think the rest of the parts would cost (dish, LNB's, mounting, etc)? Is there any special setup for a second dish in the receiver menu?


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## kariato (Dec 16, 2002)

bairdjc said:


> thanks for the answer. The stations arent exactly 180 degrees apart - actually upon checking antennaweb again, the 3 "sets" of digital stations are at 242, 325 and 346, and it recommends a red antenna for 2 (uhf and vhf) and a blue antenna for 5 (all uhf). I guess antennaweb takes terrain into account in its suggestions (I entered my address) (along with distance) so the colors should be conservative suggestions.
> 
> If I decide to go the antenna route, the antenna will most certainly be outdoors, and probably mounted with the dish(es). I have no problem paying more for an antenna if I know it will work (and not have to buy multiple ones, wasting my time).
> 
> Regarding the dish - I never thought of installing it myself - the existing dish was installed by DN and aside from the 3 wires coming out of the dish itself, there is no other DN equipment (except for the receiver, obviously). I have plenty of RG6. The SW21 - I see it has 2 dish inputs but only 1 output - the receiver has 2 dish inputs, so would I need 2 of these? How much do you think the rest of the parts would cost (dish, LNB's, mounting, etc)? Is there any special setup for a second dish in the receiver menu?


I can't help you with Outside antennas try this discussion, it exactly about what you need.

As far as installing a switch, it really depends on the type of Dish and LNB you have. Usually if you have a Dish1000 you already have a DP44 or a DP34 and will not need a seperate switch. If you have a Dish500 with a dual LNB then you should only have two wires. IF this is not your configuration then you need to take a picture and post it.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

kariato said:


> I can't help you with Outside antennas try this discussion, it exactly about what you need.
> 
> As far as installing a switch, it really depends on the type of Dish and LNB you have. Usually if you have a Dish1000 you already have a DP44 or a DP34 and will not need a seperate switch. If you have a Dish500 with a dual LNB then you should only have two wires. IF this is not your configuration then you need to take a picture and post it.


Thanks again for responding.

I have a dish 500 and 3 wires come out of it - at the time I had them install for 3 rooms, but that has dwindled to 1 room (the 622) which needs 2 feeds so the 3rd is unused at the moment. I'll see if I can get up there and take a picture.


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## David-A (Feb 21, 2006)

bairdjc said:


> So my only real option is to get 2 directional antennas, but is there a way to "merge" the signals? It's probably more complicated than a "splitter" but in reverse, right?


Actually, reversing a spiltter is exactly the way it is typically done. It is then called a combiner. The same rules apply as well. There will be a small loss of signal from each antenna so make sure you have a little extra antenna gain than the bare minimum (though as close as the broadcasting antennas are to you, that should not be a problem either). The antenna and feed should all be of the same impediance which should be no problem.

If you are literally line of sight to the broadcasting antennas (meaning that when you stand on the roof you can see the towers on a clear day) and they are using reasonable power levels, using two antennas may be overkill. I have my small Radio shack antenna pointed toward stations that are about 35 miles away and I get levels that are reported by the 622 between 92 and 100. Stations that are off to the back and sides that are between 25 to 45 miles away come in with signals in the 65 to 85 range and most are excellent reception.


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## kariato (Dec 16, 2002)

bairdjc said:


> Thanks again for responding.
> 
> I have a dish 500 and 3 wires come out of it - at the time I had them install for 3 rooms, but that has dwindled to 1 room (the 622) which needs 2 feeds so the 3rd is unused at the moment. I'll see if I can get up there and take a picture.


Proabably a QUAD LNB. Anybody else know if a SW21 will work with a VIP622.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

kariato said:


> Proabably a QUAD LNB. Anybody else know if a SW21 will work with a VIP622.


An SW-21 will only work with legacy lnb's. The 622 will work with legecy.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Using a splitter in reverse to combine two antennas usually ends up cutting your signal significantly.

From the Warren Electronics jointenna webpage:

"The Channel Master JoinTenna is perfect for those situations when you need to add a second antenna to pick up a broadcast station in another direction but don't wish to use a single antenna and rotator. The JoinTenna blocks all frequencies but the one it is tuned for, eliminating the ghosting and reflection that can happen when you connect two antennas together."

Look here:http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/Jointennas.htm


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## kariato (Dec 16, 2002)

garys said:


> An SW-21 will only work with legacy lnb's. The 622 will work with legecy.


So it will not work. I saw several articles that said the same thing about people who could not get the 622 working.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

ughh ughh

I finally got some pics of my dish - they're attached.

Now that I think about it more - there are 3 wires that go from the roof to the basement (and distribution) so if I could I'd like to have 2 of the wires used by the dish (as it's currently setup) and the 3rd I will use for an antenna. Then in the basement I'd like to use only 1 of the dish leads to feed both of the inputs on the 622 (because of the way things are wired).

So - ideas? I read around that a DPP LNB has a separate "input" for an extra dish (for another satellite) - this would make things pretty easy for me - that way all I'd need to get is another dish, wire it to the second dish, setup an antenna, then play around with feeds in the basement.

So - what do I have currently? Is it this? If I get a second dish, where should it be pointed (which satellite?)?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Not sure if that's a Twin or Quad (I don't recall which color logo is which, but you Check Switch summary will tell you), either way you want to replace it with the DPP Twin. Your second dish will be pointed at 61.5°. You can actually likely point your existing dish at 61.5°, then point the new DPP Twin dish at 110°/119°. See the instructions at the bottom of Instructions for Adding 61.5°.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

BobaBird said:


> Not sure if that's a Twin or Quad (I don't recall which color logo is which, but you Check Switch summary will tell you), either way you want to replace it with the DPP Twin. Your second dish will be pointed at 61.5°. You can actually likely point your existing dish at 61.5°, then point the new DPP Twin dish at 110°/119°. See the instructions at the bottom of Instructions for Adding 61.5°.


cool thanks for the reply.

It must be a quad because when I first got DN it was wired for 3 separate receivers (right?). (and btw there is no other equipment than the dish - meaning there are no switches on the inside our outside of the house)

At any rate, I spoke with DN the other night and wow they are completely clueless :lol: I asked about upgrading to HD mentioning that I OWN my 622 and I was just wondering what hardware I needed - the CSR proceeded to give me a blurb about lease and fees and etc and ignored my question. Anyway I finally got to a "tech" CSR and (I asked him what additional hardware I'd need) he said that if I upgraded, a DN installer would either install a Dish1000 or a separate dish alltogether "pointed at 61.5 or 129" but he wouldn't indicate which, just telling me that "the installer would decide". So how are you sure it would need to be for 129 or 61.5? (is it location-specific, e.g. west coast vs east cost?).

Looking at the link you posted (thanks again!), it seems I will need another dish along with a DishPro Plus Twin LNB - the new dish will be aimed @ 119/110 and the "old" dish (500) will be aimed at 61.5. The old dish will be wired to the LNB in port of the new dish, and 2 of the existing leads will be wired to the 2 out ports of the new LNB. this will allow me to run 1 coax to the 622 and use a separator (one came with the 622) to serve both "in" jacks on the 622. the instructions for using a dish500 for 61.5 look a bit involved - can I use the receiver's built-in "aiming" bar/tone to peak the dish? Really what I would probably do is swap the LNB's first (as my current dish is all set for 110 and 119) then install the 2nd dish for 61.5.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

bairdjc said:


> if I upgraded, a DN installer would either install a Dish1000 or a separate dish alltogether "pointed at 61.5 or 129" but he wouldn't indicate which, just telling me that "the installer would decide". So how are you sure it would need to be for 129 or 61.5? (is it location-specific, e.g. west coast vs east cost?).


It's largely regional, based on the footprint of the satellite currently in the 129° slot. Southern TX, FL and states NE of PA will get a separate dish pointed at 61.5°, the Pacific NW will get a separate larger dish pointed at 129°. See Dish 1000 coverage map.

When aiming 61.5, go directly to the receiver. After it's peaked, connect it to the switch and perform a Check Switch.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

BobaBird said:


> It's largely regional, based on the footprint of the satellite currently in the 129° slot. Southern TX, FL and states NE of PA will get a separate dish pointed at 61.5°, the Pacific NW will get a separate larger dish pointed at 129°. See Dish 1000 coverage map.
> 
> When aiming 61.5, go directly to the receiver. After it's peaked, connect it to the switch and perform a Check Switch.


by switch you mean the LNB-in on the DPP Twin LNB, right?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Right. The DPP Twin has an internal switch (as do all versions of the Twin and Quad).


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## hockeyinsd (Aug 29, 2004)

For OTA you might also want to check tvfool.com. I found it to be better than antennaweb, especially for fringe reception (I'm trying to pull in the Mt. Wilson LA stations from 100+ miles away).


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

hockeyinsd said:


> For OTA you might also want to check tvfool.com. I found it to be better than antennaweb, especially for fringe reception (I'm trying to pull in the Mt. Wilson LA stations from 100+ miles away).


OK I checked that - it seems to be a bit more optimistic than antennaweb. Evidently I can get LOS to Boston if I only erect a 450 foot tall antenna mast :lol:

anyway I bought the 2nd dish and dpp lnb so now I need to wait for that to come in to start fooling around with 61.5. in the meanwhile I'd like to anticipate an antenna for locals in HD (again DN does not carry hartford locals in HD). I don't want to dump alot of $$ in buying an antenna online only to find out it won't work with all the channels (I'd like to just get 1 omni antenna, but I'm not sure if that will be possible). Ratshack doesn't have many options (I'm thinking of buying local so if it doesn't work so well I can return it) and maybe Walmart will have more but are there any other suggestions?


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

I was thinking - to aim/peak the new dish - I have a TV that's relatively close to the installation, however I also have an old 311 receiver (nothing wrong with it - just don't use it anymore) and a small TV that I could just bring right up to the roof with me (roof is flat btw) and run an extension cord.

1) do I need to have the receiver activated to do this? (or will it see the 61.5 by itself without activation?)

2) if it needs to be activated, do you think dish will do so for free for the day (if I explain what I'm doing), OR prorate the $5 monthly receiver fee for the day?


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

The receiver does not have to be activated to use the point dish screen.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

cool - so I'll do that WHEN it comes to pointing.

I just got the 2nd dish w/dpp lnb today - I'll swap out the LNB with the current one this weekend, verify that the new LNB works, then think about placement of the new dish for 61.5.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

LNB swapped just fine today - good thing there is some measure of stndardization for measurements of LNB's and Y-adapters, etc. It actually took me longer to figure out which wire was which going into my house from the dish (so I could connect the correct 2 to the LNB) than to replace the LNB.

Next step is figuring out the best place for the 61.5 dish (it's going to 177 and the current dish is going to 247), mounting it, then crawling out there with a small TV to peak it.
I have one question regarding the pointing - I can get the Elev, Skew and Azimuth from one of several downloadable EXE's or Sadoun. The EXE's say:

Az: 177
Elev: 41
Skew: (it says "none")

Sadoun says that the skew should be -12.3 - so which is it, and why would the dish pointing tool say "none"?


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## rusi2sunny (Jul 29, 2007)

bairdjc said:


> LNB swapped just fine today - good thing there is some measure of stndardization for measurements of LNB's and Y-adapters, etc. It actually took me longer to figure out which wire was which going into my house from the dish (so I could connect the correct 2 to the LNB) than to replace the LNB.
> 
> Next step is figuring out the best place for the 61.5 dish (it's going to 177 and the current dish is going to 247), mounting it, then crawling out there with a small TV to peak it.
> I have one question regarding the pointing - I can get the Elev, Skew and Azimuth from one of several downloadable EXE's or Sadoun. The EXE's say:
> ...


For pointing to single satellite your dish does not need any skew.Just set the elevation and azimuth.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

The Sadoun tool is likely figuring for horizontal or vertical polarization. DBS uses circular, so twisting the LNB makes no difference.

Skew is needed on the Dish 500/1000 to get the 2 or 3 LNBs lined up with the satellites from your location.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

BobaBird said:


> The Sadoun tool is likely figuring for horizontal or vertical polarization. DBS uses circular, so twisting the LNB makes no difference.
> 
> Skew is needed on the Dish 500/1000 to get the 2 or 3 LNBs lined up with the satellites from your location.


I see - I mounted the dish last night and aimed it in the general direction (az & elev) and hopefully tonight I will be able to peak it (with a 301, using the directions someone linked to earlier in the thread) and tie it into my 622 and see what happens.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

OK I am happy to report that the install went well.

There was a bit of time where I was uncertain if the dish was pointed properly because the 311 wasn't giving any sat connection AT ALL (even after checking wires and doing switch checks), until I changed the tp. I get a 125 signal on most tp's now. Connecting the 61.5 dish to the new dpp lnb on the 1st dish ("old" one) was easy and a check switch on the 622 confirmed all the new channels I now "see".

Now I just need to add an antenna for OTA.....


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

Just a basic question I'm having a hard time finding the answer.....

what is/are the proper tp's for peaking to the various sats (110/119) and (61.5)?


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