# What makes TIVO so great



## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

With all the new threads swirling around and excitement so high, I just had to ask this question.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, I've just never used a TIVO and am truely curious what it is that makes people so devoted to TIVO that they put Mac zealots to shame. I couldn't be happier with my HR20 and HR21 and can't really imagine what could be that much better.

So here's your chance to educate the ignorant (me). What do you consider to be the greatest things about TIVO that you can't find on the HR2x models? Screenshots welcome...


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## Supervolcano (Jan 23, 2007)

bgottschalk said:


> I'm not trying to start a flame war


Too late, the title is all you needed to start the war.
:lol:


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

bgottschalk said:


> With all the new threads swirling around and excitement so high, I just had to ask this question.
> 
> I'm not trying to start a flame war, I've just never used a TIVO and am truely curious what it is that makes people so devoted to TIVO that they put Mac zealots to shame. I couldn't be happier with my HR20 and HR21 and can't really imagine what could be that much better.
> 
> So here's your chance to educate the ignorant (me). What do you consider to be the greatest things about TIVO that you can't find on the HR2x models? Screenshots welcome...


Simply put it does what a DVR is supposed to do - It records what you tell it to record (on time) and plays it back. Some people will agrue that they have had all kinds of problems with Tivo's but in general I think you will find many more people who have had issue, and more of them, with the HRxx.

Other things:
DLB
MRV, now
more than 50 series links
wishlists
suggestions
a better guide

That being said the HRxx has some advantages over the TiVo units but that's not the topc of this conversation.


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> Simply put it does what a DVR is supposed to do - It records what you tell it to record (on time) and plays it back. Some people will agrue that they have had all kinds of problems with Tivo's but in general I think you will find many more people who have had issue, and more of them, with the HRxx.
> 
> Other things:
> DLB
> ...


Thanks for the list!

Any details on how the MRV works? With MRV possibly coming to HR2x, I'm curious how TIVO implements it.

Any way I could see some screenshots of the guide - the parts you like? I am pretty happy with the HR2x guide, but I'm sure it could be improved.

Edit - I assumed stability would be mentioned, but since I haven't had any issues with my HR20 despite downloading "risky" CE's every week, and the fact that I'm guessing people would still want TIVO even if the HR2x was rock solid, let's leave that one for now.


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## TimG517 (Jan 2, 2007)

I too would like to see some screen shots of the GUI from TIVO


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

I'll also add that if there was an mpeg4 HD TiVo a year ago I would have been ALL OVER IT. Since that time the HRxx units have gotten considerably better and they are constantly refining them (nearly every week for those in participating in the CE program). It's grown on me a bit and there are thoise things the HRxx does better too. Even today I'm not sure that I'd go back to TiVo. Once the HRxx gets MRV the chances will be even slimmer.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Sirshagg said:


> Simply put it does what a DVR is supposed to do - It records what you tell it to record (on time) and plays it back. Some people will agrue that they have had all kinds of problems with Tivo's but in general I think you will find many more people who have had issue, and more of them, with the HRxx.
> 
> Other things:
> DLB
> ...


IF, people have issues with their HR2X's, then I can certainly understand why they might want to go back to tivo. I got rid of all of my tivos 1 year ago and all 3 of my DVR's have been problem free ever since. They all do exactly what they're supposed to do - record and play back recordings.

Certainly, tivo has some features that the HR2X's don't have (yet), but I think the HR2X's have even more features that tivo's don't have. Several of the tivo items are ones I personally never used (guide, suggestions,MRV), while the HR2X's different features, I use much more frequently.

For me, when I first switched to the HR2X's, it was about intuitiveness. You needed to have the manual handy to operate the HR2X's. With tivo, you never needed that. Everything you did in the interface was common sense and it was very easy to find/do anything.

Now, in the last year, the HR2X's have come A LONG way regarding this issue. The menu's aren't nearly as cumbersome and they've become very intuitive.

If you want to know why people think tivo is more intuitive, you can check out THIS THREAD.

I also think that a lot of it has to do with nostalgia (you never forget your first girl). People that had tivo (with D* or not) a long time ago, had their lives changed. It was a revolutionary product. Nothing will ever compare to that or change peoples lives as much, so it's fondly remembered. The growing pains with tivo are easily forgotten and only the good memories remain.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

TimG517 said:


> I too would like to see some screen shots of the GUI from TIVO


1 channel - 8 time slots
7 channels - 1 time slot
Just up or down to change which channel shows 8 time slots.
Also very fast.

It's hard to tell from just a pic but in my opinion light years better.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> For me, when I first switched to the HR2X's, it was about intuitiveness. You needed to have the manual handy to operate the HR2X's. With tivo, you never needed that. Everything you did in the interface was common sense and it was very easy to find/do anything.


Agree 100%



spartanstew said:


> Now, in the last year, the HR2X's have come A LONG way regarding this issue. The menu's aren't nearly as cumbersome and they've become very intuitive.


Definitely!


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> 1 channel - 8 time slots
> 7 channels - 1 time slot
> Just up or down to change which channel shows 8 time slots.
> Also very fast.
> ...


Interesting. I guess when I see that I think of the old cable guide where it was more like a list of shows on one channel. Also seems like a lot of wasted space around it. Personally I prefer the grid - when I go into the guide, 99% of the time I am wanting to find something to watch now. So, I want to see what is on now (and in the next 1 1/2 hours) on as many channels as possible at the same time. I really would not like having to scroll 1 channel at a time to see what is on now.

I do however, really like the huge amount of space for the description and that you can see the entire description without going to another screen.

Just my bias with how I use the guide, but keep em coming...


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Sirshagg said:


> 1 channel - 8 time slots
> 7 channels - 1 time slot
> Just up or down to change which channel shows 8 time slots.
> Also very fast.


I know a lot of people liked it, but I hated that guide. I always used the directv guide instead. I always want to know what's on right now on as many channels as possible. Not what shows might be on in a couple of hours on one channel.


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## TimG517 (Jan 2, 2007)

I agree with bgottschalk.

Looks like Time Warner GUI from 10 years ago. I think the DirecTV GUI is much better looking.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

bgottschalk said:


> Any details on how the MRV works? With MRV possibly coming to HR2x, I'm curious how TIVO implements it.


Tivo copies the show from one machine to the other. You can start watching nearly immediately but obviously only ffwd up to what has been copied so far. You can;t for example start watching a show on TiVo 1, go to another room and pick up where you left off on TiVo 2. Yuo would have to copy the entire show over and then ffwd through what you already have seen. It could definitely be done MUCH better, but it's better than nothing.


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> Tivo copies the show from one machine to the other. You can start watching nearly immediately but obviously only ffwd up to what has been copied so far. You can;t for example start watching a show on TiVo 1, go to another room and pick up where you left off on TiVo 2. Yuo would have to copy the entire show over and then ffwd through what you already have seen. It could definitely be done MUCH better, but it's better than nothing.


It would be nice if that was available as well as streaming. I can think of times when the main DVR is almost full and you'd like to move some of the kids shows over to the other DVR to free up some space. In that case, copying would be handy.


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## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> 1 channel - 8 time slots
> 7 channels - 1 time slot
> Just up or down to change which channel shows 8 time slots.
> Also very fast.
> ...


It's been a while since I've used my Tivo, so I guess I forgot what it looked like. I MUCH prefer the DirecTV grid guide to the Tivo guide.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> I know a lot of people liked it, but I hated that guide. I always used the directv guide instead. I always want to know what's on right now on as many channels as possible. Not what shows might be on in a couple of hours on one channel.


Yep, we are all different. For me it's always a DVR and I rarely watch live TV so I don't care what is on now. When I surf the guide I'm looking to find things I want to record in the coming hours or days and this format works much better for me.

It's kinda like DLB - there are lots of people foaming at the mouth over this feature. I persoanlly don't care about it one way or the other.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

bgottschalk said:


> It would be nice if that was available as well as streaming. I can think of times when the main DVR is almost full and you'd like to move some of the kids shows over to the other DVR to free up some space. In that case, copying would be handy.


Yep! You could even get int co-operative scheduling. Tell your DVR to record a third show in the same time slot and it finds another DVR to offload the job to. Then when the recording is done on the other DVR it moves it to the one where you requested the recording automatically. Noe wouldn't something like that be cool. But I get off topic...


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> Yep, we are all different. For me it's always a DVR and I rarely watch live TV so I don't care what is on now. When I surf the guide I'm looking to find things I want to record in the coming hours or days and this format works much better for me.
> 
> It's kinda like DLB - there are lots of people foaming at the mouth over this feature. I persoanlly don't care about it one way or the other.


I totally agree - I also don't have much use for DLB, but I understand why others do. It would be nice if the HR2x had some options in the guide area - to satisfy both needs.


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## JerseyBoy (Sep 1, 2006)

What is so good about TiVo? Their marketing. World's best marketing but I don't think their engineers ever watch TV based on the way they implemented the hr10.
On the hr10-250 it took forever to go to the next page in the guide. Record 1st run only frequently caused 1st run shows not to record. You had to use a backdoor code to make the skip forward work properly and it would reset itself back to the useless skip to tick that was the supported operation whenever it reset.
When did the hr10-250 get MRV? Mine never had it.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

krock918316 said:


> It's been a while since I've used my Tivo, so I guess I forgot what it looked like. I MUCH prefer the DirecTV grid guide to the Tivo guide.


Well it was an option on the Tivo. You could have it that way or like the DirecTv guide - so we could both be hapy


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

JerseyBoy said:


> What is so good about TiVo? Their marketing. World's best marketing but I don't think their engineers ever watch TV based on the way they implemented the hr10.
> On the hr10-250 it took forever to go to the next page in the guide. Record 1st run only frequently caused 1st run shows not to record. You had to use a backdoor code to make the skip forward work properly and it would reset itself back to the useless skip to tick that was the supported operation whenever it reset.
> When did the hr10-250 get MRV? Mine never had it.


DirecTv neutered the DTiVo's which is why among many things you didn't have MRV on it (without hacking).


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## katzeye (May 1, 2007)

I agree with everything that people have said (*cough*more then 50 series link*cough*), but what really gets me is the little touches. 
My personal favorite is the deleted items folder. This is the folder where items went when they were deleted. So instead of being deleted immediately it would be placed in the folder removed when the space was actually needed. It saved a me from many a mistaken deletion.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

JerseyBoy said:


> What is so good about TiVo? Their marketing. World's best marketing but I don't think their engineers ever watch TV based on the way they implemented the hr10.


Hmmm, I feel exactly the opposite - Marketing sucked, but it worked great.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

katzeye said:


> My personal favorite is the deleted items folder. This is the folder where items went when they were deleted. So instead of being deleted immediately it would be placed in the folder removed when the space was actually needed. It saved a me from many a mistaken deletion.


DEFINITELY a nice feature!!!


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

katzeye said:


> My personal favorite is the deleted items folder. This is the folder where items went when they were deleted. So instead of being deleted immediately it would be placed in the folder removed when the space was actually needed. It saved a me from many a mistaken deletion.


Never had that on my D*Tivo's. That would be nice.


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## NoOTA (Apr 7, 2008)

Why Tivo so great:

0. RELIABILITY. It just works. Never missed shows, RARELY rebooted (5-6 months up time) , audio ALWAYS in sync. Like a toater: It is just there but always does what it should. I would trade new features on a HR21 DRV for audio/video that are always in sync like the Tivo was. (Basics should be 100% before add new stuff)

1. MOST IMPORTANT: The Tivo system is RECORDED TV centric and that is really center stage. THIS IS IMPORTANT. It changes the way you watch TV. Press TIVO button and get NOW PLAYING recorded shows list at the top. ALWAYS easily get back to this point as it is central to the watching of TV on a Tivo. Live TV is secondary and not really needed as much. THIS is the real Tivo revolution that other DVRs don't get exactly right and that makes them fancy VCRs with better recording functions. (This mode of watching really KILLS commercial watching and allows for watching more shows in less time.)
2. Why DBL so important? It REINFORCES the Tivo core function of NOT watching TV in live mode (commercials are REALLY hated here, and have NO reason to watch them with working DLB)
Here is how it works:
a. Nothing recorded new in Now Playing List, even though it CAN be set for more than 50 Season Passed unlike crippled HR21.
b. Decide to watch Live TV.
c. Commercial comes on, but why waste time on commercials, go watch something else on other tuner like the 10 o'oclock news on a different channel.
1. Press PAUSE.
2. Press LIVE TV to switch to other tuner. 
3. Go browse to a different Live TV channel that isn't in commercial.
4. When That channel goes to commercial. press PAUSE, LIVE TV to return to original tuner that is now "behind" and then 30 second 'blip' past the commercial.
5. When commercial comes on, press PAUSE, LIVE TV to switch to second tuner and blip past commecials on that one.
6. repeat steps 4-5 and enjoy commercial free "live tv"
7. Can easily switch one of the shows to a different channel while still switching back to the other buffer. Easy, clean and useful. 
d. 2 button press to switch between 2 live feeds and you are watching out f the buffers and hence NOT REALLY WATCHING LIVE TV ANY MORE on either tuner rather watch slightly time delayed live feeds so can SKIP commercials AND watch 2 things at once. Tivo is RECORDED TV centric, even if it is in the buffer and only a couple minutes behind.


EASY, CONVENIENT and truly chances the way you watch tv. NOT a glorified VCR AT ALL!!!! 
(HR21 dlb is a multi button cluge that is way harder to do. It also places one of the shows in the RECORDED TV list and it must be manually deleted. PAIN in the BUTT. If do this all day, get many partial shows recorded than must decided to manually delete. PAIN! W/O this, HR21 is a fancy VCR with 2 tuners and some VOD things.).

3. Like the UI better, but this is user opinion and can be debated.
a. Easier to use. Like a toater, don't have to think about finding thing I want to do, they are just there.
b. 8 second BACK button better than 6 second on HR21 when overshoot a commercial.
c. Then skipping though, pressing 30 second skip brings up green progress bar so I can see how far "behind" I am. Must press PLAY after skipping on HR21 to see this (extra key stroke, not as convenient.)
d. Button pressed always bring a BING or BONG when skipping to say happened or not. Some like (me) some don't (others who used grew up on other DVRs)
e. Can PAUSE a channel right away when I switch to it. On the HR21, it can play up to 15 seconds before the machine allows the PAUSE function to work. WHAT THE?????? Just NOT as nice and really unnecessary in a 2 year product.
f. When come out of initial PAUSE the Tivo doesn't back up a couple seconds like the HR21 does. WHY does the HR21 backup? I think it is a "fix" for some audio problems. NOT RIGHT on the HR21.
g. Audio in sync on Tivo. TBS HD is out of sync Right NOW as I watch my HR21. WHAT THE???? Again just not right on the HR21, but (e f and g) are really part of "just working right" that the Tivo does and the HR21 doesn't.
h. Like the Tivo peanut remote better. Easier to find the 30second skip and 8 second back buttons W/O looking at the remote as there are less buttons and the spacing is farther apart on the Tivo remote. These are the MOST IMPORTANT buttons on a Tivo remote. (30second commercial skip and 8 second back buttons are CENTRAL to Tivo way of skipping commercials and speeding up TV watching, so it is just easier with a Tivo remote.) Live TV to switch to other DLB tuner is next most important button in Tivo land.

4. CIG (channels I get) only used when set a wish list record. WHY does the HR21 record things that match my wish list if I can't view it because my DTV package doesn't include that channel? Just stupid on the HR21 part.

5. Hackable. Don't know if I can say this, but "expandablility" of Tivos (Standalone and DTivos) has always been seen as an advantage. Get MRV, show insersion and extraction, play music, undelete shows, add Caller ID, EXPAND HDD space (30G to 120G to 320G in my case, WITHOUT loosing existing recordings), learn Linux.

What I don't like:
1. HR21 interface is faster. DTivo CPU is pretty limited.
2. Red DELETE button is convinient on HR21
3. SD only (if was HD, I would NOT have to be living with the HR21...)


So THAT is what Tivo zealots like and miss on the HR21.

NoOTA.



P.S. E* DVR is a glorified VCR also and they don't have as many HD channels. (Friend got a HD E* receiver and it overheats w/o a fan blowing on it in his entertainment center, so the hardware there is not as good as HR21 which runs cool. )

P.S.S. If the whole idea of completely eliminating commercial watching from your TV habbit doesn't seem so important I would guess you never had a Tivo and really used your DVR to REALLY CHANGE the way you watch TV. My friends with E* don't get it because they never had this so their DVR did not REALLY change the way they watch TV like a Tivo can/did. 

THAT is what made Tivo so revolutionary and "changed the way you watch TV" (and is why advertisers hate it so much)


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## aphex (Oct 30, 2007)

I've learned to love the HR2x interface but we still have 3 DirecTivos in the house (HR10-250, R10, DSR6000 (old school)). My fiance was overjoyed when I told her about this this morning - shes always loved the tivo interface over the HR2x. I will say that the TiVo interface and system is more intuitive.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Forget the DIRECTIVO, I want my DIRECTV inside Media Center. Media Center, IMO, is the best implementation of a DVR with the big missing feature of forcing you to do Cable for HD other than OTA. It's a TRUE central-located multi-room full media system with a top notch DVR.

Gimme MPEG-4 HD from DIRECTV and it would be missing nothing (for me).


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## HDinMA (Aug 29, 2008)

I think what makes TiVo so "great" is simply the fact that they were the first on the market. Name recognition is everything, as the makers of band aid, xerox and coke can attest. And if your name becomes synonymous with a certain product you have it made. So before DVR entered public lexicon we had TiVo, and TiVo only. Things were "TiVo'd", as opposed to merely recorded, and moments were measured as "most TiVo'd ever", etc. It also came with a nifty little mascot too! An identifiable trademark that resonated in public consciousness. I can still recall Don Imus pimping TiVo back in the late 90's and couldn't wait to get my hands on this ingenious invention, even though it was already available in far less user-unfriendly formats. And therein lies TiVo's real appeal .. *USER FRIENDLINESS*. It's so intuitive, my kids learned to use it on there own in a jiff. Mac, AOL and iPod have had similar success for similar reasons.

Of course, TiVo's advantages over other DVRs go well beyond these phenomena and the details of these advantages have already been well documented in this tread.

However, I'd like to make a distinction ...

The stand-alone Series 2 SD TiVo I bought years back is/was constantly being updated with great new features. By contrast, the HR10-250 I bought in 2006 received only modest enhancements (until very recently) and the menu grid was horrendously SLOW. In fact, the screen shot above is pretty much the only view one could utilize as the standard one was almost unusable it was so slow. I blame this on DirecTV and I wonder if the new "DirecTiVo" will suffer a similar fate.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I want to point out that 99% of the things here are all about personal preference... 

The only real features that Tivo has is DLB and the CIG... (and don't expect tivo to allow you to control CIG on the next units and more than you can on todays Directv DVRs...) (based on current DTivos) The Directv DVRs have more features in them today. Now, the numbers equal out some if you look at the stand alone units, but you can't do that, because there is a reason the ones we have now work the way they do...contracts, and we don't know what the new one says they can and can't deliver in the new boxes. The interesting thing to see will be if the new tivo units have all the same capabilites as their current stand alone units, or will they be restriced on certain things as well? Time will tell...


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## HDinMA (Aug 29, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> I want to point out that 99% of the things here are all about personal preference...
> 
> The only real features that Tivo has is DLB and the CIG... (and don't expect tivo to allow you to control CIG on the next units and more than you can on todays Directv DVRs...) (based on current DTivos) The Directv DVRs have more features in them today. Now, the numbers equal out some if you look at the stand alone units, but you can't do that, because there is a reason the ones we have now work the way they do...contracts, and we don't know what the new one says they can and can't deliver in the new boxes. The interesting thing to see will be if the new tivo units have all the same capabilites as their current stand alone units, or will they be restriced on certain things as well? Time will tell...


What about MRV?

I think some of the features and options listed in this thread are more than mere "personal preference". But I guess that could cover just about anything.

The HR* boxes have been upgraded significantly, but they are always lagging behind. TiVo is on the cutting edge. That being said, there is no need to be a fanboy or loyalist. I see the pros and cons of both.


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## videojanitor (Oct 8, 2006)

For me, what makes TiVo superior is the way that it handles things other than normal "play." In particular, the skip-to-tick feature is implemented beautifully, and allows me to find a spot in a long recording very quickly. With the HR20 on the other hand, you must use a cumbersome "press-and-hold" method to accomplish this, and it not only is more difficult, but it takes a lot more time, as it sometimes doesn't respond, and you can't just hit skip-skip-skip-skip many times in a row to move down the time-line. You've got press-n-hold, wait for it to skip, then repeat. 

It's also very difficult to review the END of an HR20 recording, as the software want to give you an immediate choice of "Delete/Don't Delete." With TiVo, when you jump to the end, it goes ALMOST to the end, and you can still play it, rewind it, or whatever. That's exactly the way I expect that feature to work.

I don't hate the HR20, but given the choice, I'll go with TiVo.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

My DirecTivos were always 100% rock solid. All of them (Had a total of 8 at the time). My Hr20s are pretty good, but I do have to babysit them once in awhile.
Also, GREATLY miss Wishlists!!!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I want to point out that 99% of the things here are all about personal preference...
> 
> The only real features that Tivo has is DLB and the CIG... (and don't expect tivo to allow you to control CIG on the next units and more than you can on todays Directv DVRs...) (based on current DTivos) The Directv DVRs have more features in them today. Now, the numbers equal out some if you look at the stand alone units, but you can't do that, because there is a reason the ones we have now work the way they do...contracts, and we don't know what the new one says they can and can't deliver in the new boxes. The interesting thing to see will be if the new tivo units have all the same capabilites as their current stand alone units, or will they be restriced on certain things as well? Time will tell...


That's not really true.

Tivos have a suggestion system based on your prior use. They also have a search engine that doesn't force the user to search from ALL programming whether you subscribe to it or not. They also have a much better Parental Control/KidsZone feature to name just a few other differences.

Are Tivos really great? Ehh...but my experience with one of their units (Sony T60) was far better than the experience I've had with the HR2x series. That doesn't make the HR2x horrible, but it has been mediocre at best with some very disturbing problems when it comes to the parental control system and a seeming inability to reliably record shows even two years after release.

Will the new DirecTivo unit be great? I dunno...no one can know for sure...I have my doubts about them ever getting it done as Tivo's release track record hasn't been stellar.


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## usmcbob55 (Oct 6, 2007)

I also liked giving a hearty triple thumbs down to the likes of Larry the Cable Guy programming or WNBA basketball. I felt that some force in the ether felt my message(even though I knew better).


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I did like it recording shows on it's own by ratings, but that feature's definitely not a decision maker.


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## usmcbob55 (Oct 6, 2007)

kturcotte said:


> I did like it recording shows on it's own by ratings, but that feature's definitely not a decision maker.


I liked the concept, but I actually think it was a bit liberal on making selections for me. It needed tweaked a little. Just because I like Seinfeld didn't mean I was a Mama's Family fan....it filled up my hard drive way too fast.


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## katzeye (May 1, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Never had that on my D*Tivo's. That would be nice.


It was a new feature that showed up a few years ago on my series 2. It really is great.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

usmcbob55 said:


> I liked the concept, but I actually think it was a bit liberal on making selections for me. It needed tweaked a little. Just because I like Seinfeld didn't mean I was a Mama's Family fan....it filled up my hard drive way too fast.


You could have shut off the automatic recording part of the function and just used the list of suggestions.


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

Thanks for the lengthy response!

I think it really proves something - that TIVO users are nuts! Just kidding 

What it really shows is what I've suspected for some time. There are people out there that the TIVO way fits much better (recording everything, using the guide to find things to record not seeing what is on now, having the TIVO record things on its own you might like, etc). Live TV is not so important.

There are others (like me) that haven't gone that far. I would say about 70 - 80% of what I watch is live TV (maybe a little behind to skip commercials - I still call that live). I have it record my favorite series and other shows / events / movies that I want to make sure I don't miss. However, if I am watching live TV and a commercial does come on that I can't skip, I take the opportunity to talk to my family, grab a snack, etc. No need for DLB.

All the lists of features missing, stability complaints, etc. really aren't the main factor IMO. I think the main factor is exactly what you are saying - a mindset on how you view TV. You either have the mindset that TIVO "fits" better or you don't. From what I seen on these boards, I would say we are about half and half as a group.



NoOTA said:


> Why Tivo so great:
> 
> 0. RELIABILITY. It just works. Never missed shows, RARELY rebooted (5-6 months up time) , audio ALWAYS in sync. Like a toater: It is just there but always does what it should. I would trade new features on a HR21 DRV for audio/video that are always in sync like the Tivo was. (Basics should be 100% before add new stuff)
> 
> ...


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## bgottschalk (Aug 30, 2007)

usmcbob55 said:


> I liked the concept, but I actually think it was a bit liberal on making selections for me. It needed tweaked a little. Just because I like Seinfeld didn't mean I was a Mama's Family fan....it filled up my hard drive way too fast.


Exactly why I don't think I would like that feature. I like to keep my hard drive clean. And I know what I want to record and watch - I don't a box deciding for me.


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## NoOTA (Apr 7, 2008)

Yes, a mindset that because it is so easy you will not watch commercials, or get up and snack or go to the bathroom, rather commercials are a chance to channel surf the other tuner EASILY so commercial time is now being used as watch something else time. I use to watch two 1/2 hour local news channels at 10 o'clock each night so in about 35 minutes I got to see what 2 channels said happened in the day. Only bummer is when "catch up to live tv and both go to commercial at the same time...



bgottschalk said:


> Thanks for the lengthy response!
> 
> However, if I am watching live TV and a commercial does come on that I can't skip, I take the opportunity to talk to my family, grab a snack, etc. No need for DLB.
> 
> All the lists of features missing, stability complaints, etc. really aren't the main factor IMO. I think the main factor is exactly what you are saying - a mindset on how you view TV. You either have the mindset that TIVO "fits" better or you don't. From what I seen on these boards, I would say we are about half and half as a group.


I would content the other half never got into this mode because they never had DTivo to do it or just never realize DLB were not just for watch 2 sporting channels at once. Once you do, it hurts to go back and THAT is the feature HR21 has taken away - a "mind set".

A "nuts" Tivo user (NoOTA)


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## katzeye (May 1, 2007)

usmcbob55 said:


> I liked the concept, but I actually think it was a bit liberal on making selections for me. It needed tweaked a little. Just because I like Seinfeld didn't mean I was a Mama's Family fan....it filled up my hard drive way too fast.


Except that it doesn't really fill up the HD, because it is the first thing to be jettisoned when the HD gets full. 
It is a feature that I found useless 95% of the time, but occasionally it would pick up on something good.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It seems to be that this question has been excellently answered, and as this is the discussion forum for active, currently available DIRECTV DVRs, I am not certain that any more discussion is necessary.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

I love the suggestions. It's a lot of fun to come home after a hard day's work, and pick a show to watch. I love the reliability, and I love the hardware. My Hr10 operated very quietly, no hard drive clicking, never a missed recording, and almost no reboots. Overall, just a lot more fun to use. 

The HR2X has been aggravating for me. I left Dish Network a few years ago after having been a subscriber for about 9 years. Why? Buggy, noisy equipment that was unreliable (the 721) When I came over to Directv, the TIVO experience was great. No missed recordings, no noisy hard drives, and a much better GUI. Then, unfortunately, the HR2X series was introduced. For more than a year, nothing but bugs and aggravation (freezes, reboots, etc.)--a huge step backwards. After a long while, the bugs where for the most part worked out. To this day, I can still hear my Hr20-700s hard drives clicking away, and its very annoying. The HR21-100 I have is much quieter. Still have lip sync problems on a regular basis. These are all the reasons I left Dish Network for Directv. I was very disappointed when faced with the same thing when Directv left TIVO.

If it wasn't for this recent announcement that TIVO was back again, as soon as my contract expired, I was going to leave Directv for a provider that was compatible with TIVO.

Programming is very important, but if the end user suffers aggravation because of faulty/buggy equipment, then the experience suffers.

Directv made the right move here--a Flagship DVR (the TIVO) with a Flagship Provider (Directv)!

Thank you TIVO and Directv! Now, I hope they have a program to upgrade back to the TIVO and allow us to exchange the HR2Xs on some reasonable basis.


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## StephenT (Mar 6, 2008)

I'll add one more thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned. The history of recordings at the top of the To Do List! It is very detailed. If a recording didn't happen or if one disappeared from the List it would tell you exactly why. No signal, guide data changed, person removed it, higher priority show conflicted with it, etc. Sooo nice! When a recording is missed you know why. I'm actually less angry about a missed recording if I know why.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> I did like it recording shows on it's own by ratings, but that feature's definitely not a decision maker.


Really stinks that the HR20 can;t do this, especially considering the 50SL limit. I'm using at least 20 SL's that I used to just let TiVo record for me based on suggestions. (Stuff I'd like to have available but wouldn't be heartbroken if it wasn't there).


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

usmcbob55 said:


> I liked the concept, but I actually think it was a bit liberal on making selections for me. It needed tweaked a little. Just because I like Seinfeld didn't mean I was a Mama's Family fan....it filled up my hard drive way too fast.


Doesn;t matter since suggestions are always the first to go.


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## katzeye (May 1, 2007)

I was just cruising EngadgetHD and I saw this pic. 
http://www.engadgethd.com/photos/tivo-hd-xl-dvr-hands-on-at-cedia/1019218/
I haven't really paid attention to Tivo Series 3/HD since getting a Hr20 (since I couldn't have one). But that is a pretty clearly labeled eSATA port that says external storage. This seems like a good sign that they would have no reason to cripple or disable eSATA on the D*/Tivo service. This makes me happy


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## jhart05 (Aug 14, 2008)

I just preferred the much more "polished look" of the TiVo.

Also regarding the guide, you have the option of having it show like the picture above or the standard grid format. At least you did with the R10's. So it's best of both worlds, pick which one you like.


EDIT: And the DLB of course.

Oh yeah, and this...

"My personal favorite is the deleted items folder. This is the folder where items went when they were deleted. So instead of being deleted immediately it would be placed in the folder removed when the space was actually needed. It saved a me from many a mistaken deletion."


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

bgottschalk said:


> Thanks for the lengthy response!
> 
> I think it really proves something - that TIVO users are nuts! Just kidding


My email address used to be [email protected] lol Kinda thought I ought to drop it though after getting rid of them and started liking the HR20.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

Its a different implementation and architecture, from my perspective.

Tivo pretty much decoupled the programming from the source. Tivo became your UI and you could back it up with cable, either satellite service, or OTA. It put you in control of what you watched. It did what you told it to do: when you asked it to record a show, it did it 99.9% of the time. I never had a playback problem of any kind that wasnt due to loss of signal by the provider. When you told it to keep a show until you deleted it, it did that.

The directv product is a marketing driven tool to extend and enable the directv product and programming. Not that theres anything wrong with that, but its not the same thing.

When there are hinge points where putting more of what directv can make money on in your face, those lean towards what benefits directv, not necessarily the user. With tivo, the content provider not only took a back seat, they got stuffed in the trunk. Probably a good reason why both comcast and directv tried dumping them and going on their own.

As far as better and worse or what made the tivo better? It was simply more reliable at performing its core functions and it was easy to use. I gave my 70-something year old father a tivo and remote and within an hour or two he had grasped about 80% of its capabilities and is still using that series 1 unit almost 9 years later. I sat him down with the HR20 remote and spent an hour trying to coach him on it and at the end of the hour he gave me back the remote and said 'This is too complicated and I dont get it. I'll keep my tivo'.

When directv told me the HR was better and I'd have a better experience with it, I came here and saw most people saying it was as good or better at its core functions and had bells and whistles that made it superior in many ways. The truth of it is, I've had more trouble with this product in six months than I had in 9 years with tivo. It seems that a lot of naysaying or truth telling is met with closing a thread or piling on the person making complaints.

The HR may be a good product some day. Right now it fails at performing its core functions reliably, the 'improvements' are subjective to the user, and I dont really see any major benefits vs the tivo. On the flip side, the tivo enjoys many features the HR doesnt have and that IMO they wont get for quite some time.


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## usmcbob55 (Oct 6, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> Doesn;t matter since suggestions are always the first to go.


That's not accurate at all. I lost tons of Season Pass shows while I was top heavy with vapid MTV programming shoved down my throat.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> It seems to be that this question has been excellently answered, and as this is the discussion forum for active, currently available DIRECTV DVRs, I am not certain that any more discussion is necessary.


I find this an odd comment considering the other threads on non-released features and receivers that have in the past and continue to be discussed here...but it is certainly your right. So...Is there a forum on dbstalk.com to discuss the upcoming DirecTivo receivers...or should we look elsewhere?


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

katzeye said:


> I was just cruising EngadgetHD and I saw this pic.
> http://www.engadgethd.com/photos/tivo-hd-xl-dvr-hands-on-at-cedia/1019218/
> I haven't really paid attention to Tivo Series 3/HD since getting a Hr20 (since I couldn't have one). But that is a pretty clearly labeled eSATA port that says external storage. This seems like a good sign that they would have no reason to cripple or disable eSATA on the D*/Tivo service. This makes me happy


The S3 and HDTivo both support adding external storage with approved devices. I believe those are the WD DVR expander devices. (Not the Mybook stuff).

The esata marries to the internal drive and expands capacity.


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

To me, it boils down to the fact that, for whatever reason, the TiVo interface is more user-friendly and the unit is more reliable, and consequently, it's easier for the wife and kids to use.

In terms of "function", imho, the HR2x's SHOULD do the same things (although, I know they do not), so the interface and reliability are what sets TiVo apart...

...of course, it's also what SHOULD set TiVo apart since "make DVRs" is what they do and it's all they do (i.e. they aren't a cablesat trying to piece together a DVR in their spare time)...

--Mav

P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, as soon as this thing is available, I'm buying one. I don't care what it costs. I'm sick of my HR20.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jhart05 said:


> I just preferred the much more "polished look" of the TiVo.


You mean cartoonish look?

Also, you would NOT like the newer stuff on the Tivo for look. The swivel search screens ar down right fuzzy and very unpolished.

And everybody keeps saying that Tivo is more intuitive. Huh? I don't see it that way at all. I find most of the stuff hidden.


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## mattpol (Aug 20, 2006)

While the responses here have been nothing short excellent, I think the bottom line is that my TiVo didn't get in the way of watching TV. I find that the HR2x does. TiVo was user-friendly, in all the right (and sometimes, little) ways.


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## DMG (Feb 7, 2008)

The long post by NoOTA nailed quite a bit about what made TiVo so great.

I didn't have to use the HR-2x very long before I realized that DirecTV doesn't get it. The remote typifies that right out of the box. On TiVo the pause button is a very large button, central to the navigation buttons for play, skip, etc. On the HR-2x remote it is hidden off to the side, almost impossible to find by feel. I'm sure I'm not alone in that the features I use the most are the pause and skip buttons and these features are poorly implemented on the HR-2x. I had to buy a new remote just to make the HR-2x usable for what I use a DVR for.

Of course the UI is faster on the HR-2x; I've no doubt that the hardware powering the unit is far superior to the old HR10-250. We are 5+ years later than when that was rolled out. 

The only feature that comes to mind that I like better on the HR-2x is the fact that you can turn on and off closed captioning with a couple of button presses on the HR-2x and with TiVo it was a nightmare. 

There may be other non-DVR specific features that the HR-2x does better than DirecTivo did but part of that is because DTV crippled the DirecTivo compared to the stand alone TiVos. I hope that doesn't happen this time around.


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## DMG (Feb 7, 2008)

Maverickster said:


> P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, as soon as this thing is available, I'm buying one. I don't care what it costs. I'm sick of my HR20.


I feel the same way. Both my HR21s are going out the door as soon as the new TiVo for DirecTV is available. That's a good thing for DirecTV if they want my continued business since cable + standalone TiVos look pretty good right now.


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## mattpol (Aug 20, 2006)

DMG said:


> I feel the same way. Both my HR21s are going out the door as soon as the new TiVo for DirecTV is available. That's a good thing for DirecTV if they want my continued business since cable + standalone TiVos look pretty good right now.


+1!!!


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

bgottschalk said:


> Exactly why I don't think I would like that feature. I like to keep my hard drive clean. And I know what I want to record and watch - I don't a box deciding for me.


I'm exactly the opposite - I want my hard drive completely filled but with clear rules on the order in which things will get deleted to make room for new recordings. The HRxx does this ok, but the TiVo did it better and the addition of suggested recordings added another layer that the HRxx does not even offer. And of course if the suggestions bug you they can simply be turned off.

To me the the more free space on a DVR the less of a DVR you have.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> I'm exactly the opposite - I want my hard drive completely filled but with clear rules on the order in which things will get deleted to make room for new recordings. The HRxx does this ok, but the TiVo did it better and the addition of suggested recordings added another layer that the HRxx does not even offer. And of course if the suggestions bug you they can simply be turned off.
> 
> To me the the more free space on a DVR the less of a DVR you have.


what's free space?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

DMG said:


> I feel the same way. Both my HR21s are going out the door as soon as the new TiVo for DirecTV is available. That's a good thing for DirecTV if they want my continued business since cable + standalone TiVos look pretty good right now.


I'm gonna hang on to my HR2x's and scream cry and whine if they try to make me switch :hurah: :grin: :lol:


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DMG said:


> I feel the same way. Both my HR21s are going out the door as soon as the new TiVo for DirecTV is available. That's a good thing for DirecTV if they want my continued business since cable + standalone TiVos look pretty good right now.


I still don't understand, all this. Ink is still wet, hasn't dried yet. Nobody has been put forward to say who will be driving the DVR business unit. Its also a year or so away, what you see know, will be totally different on the NEW machines.


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## BruceS (Sep 23, 2006)

Bushwacr said:


> The S3 and HDTivo both support adding external storage with approved devices. I believe those are the WD DVR expander devices. (Not the Mybook stuff).
> 
> The esata marries to the internal drive and expands capacity.


If, and I stress if, the new DirecTV requires a new box, I certainly hope they base it on the S3.

You can add many different capacity external drives, not just the WD DVR expander ones, which are limited to 500GB. I am currently using a 1TB external drive with my S3.

Of course, this may be less of an issue if it does require a new box which is bases on the HDTivo XL. These are supposed to come with a 1TB internal drive.


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

BruceS said:


> If, and I stress if, the new DirecTV requires a new box, I certainly hope they base it on the S3.
> 
> You can add many different capacity external drives, not just the WD DVR expander ones, which are limited to 500GB. I am currently using a 1TB external drive with my S3.
> 
> Of course, this may be less of an issue if it does require a new box which is bases on the HDTivo XL. These are supposed to come with a 1TB internal drive.


I thought that Tivo only officially supported the WD while others would work unsupported?


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## jhart05 (Aug 14, 2008)

tonyd79 said:


> You mean cartoonish look?


I don't know if I'd call it cartoonish, but yeah, I think it looks better and is easier to use. Plus the text is bigger and easier to read. At least it was with the R10 I just replaced.


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

Sirshagg said:


> Tivo copies the show from one machine to the other. You can start watching nearly immediately but obviously only ffwd up to what has been copied so far. You can;t for example start watching a show on TiVo 1, go to another room and pick up where you left off on TiVo 2. Yuo would have to copy the entire show over and then ffwd through what you already have seen. It could definitely be done MUCH better, but it's better than nothing.


That's not true. Tivo lets you start an MRV transfer from a paused point.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

ebockelman said:


> That's not true. Tivo lets you start an MRV transfer from a paused point.


Learn something new every day. Was this something you could do with MRV from day one or was it added later (say in the last few years)?


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## RedChef (Jan 18, 2007)

NoOTA said:


> Why Tivo so great:
> 
> 0. RELIABILITY. It just works. Never missed shows, RARELY rebooted (5-6 months up time) , audio ALWAYS in sync. Like a toater: It is just there but always does what it should. I would trade new features on a HR21 DRV for audio/video that are always in sync like the Tivo was. (Basics should be 100% before add new stuff)
> 
> ...


Bravo ... Home Run ... Couldn't have said it better! I still have 3 SD Tivos in my house (along with an HR20, HR21 and R15) and man I miss DLB.

One feature that the D*TVs have that TIVO is lacking ... the ability to play all in a folder!


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## snedecor (Aug 22, 2002)

A feature that TiVo has that I want to keep (that's why I haven't jumped to Dish HD) is that TiVo can transfer files to and from the PC. The PC can be treated as another remote Multi-Room Viewing source. Once the shows are on the PC, they can be commercial-cut, re-encoded for ipods, etc. burned to DVD as any video file on a PC can. 

For example, I transfer videos to the PC, this is done automatically as a series episode is recorded, the PC automatically copies it to the PC. I then cut the commercials, then master several of them to DVD for archive. I can also re-encode them for my iPhone and to DIVX to safe space. I have a lot more storage space on my PC than on my TiVo, so I use it to save things that I don't need right away, but might want to see later. I could rip all my DVD's to the PC's hard drive, and use MRV to view them, but the interface is not that robust, in my opinion, so I haven't done that.

The TiVo can see the PC as a MRV host, so I put camcorder home movies on my PC in the proper folder, navigate to the PC from the TiVo, and transfer and view those home movies on my TiVo. 

It's not perfect, but it works for me, and anything I go to will need this feature.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

jhart05 said:


> I don't know if I'd call it cartoonish, but yeah, I think it looks better and is easier to use. Plus the text is bigger and easier to read. At least it was with the R10 I just replaced.


To each his own but I would say that Tivo was less advanced looking and less polished. Not only is the text too big for an HD screen, there are no popup menus, everything is full screen, every menu screen requires an introductory whirl of graphics (probably to hide the slowness of loading not to be fancy or polished) and often with the HD Tivo, I have to wait and watch screens get populated with individual items.

I am running HD Tivo versus HR2x's and usually the HR2x's are snappier and crisper.

Tivo looks old to me now. And has too many button pushes. And the newer stuff is gawd awful. Very amateurish.

The only thing I like about Tivo better than the DirecTV DVR+ is dual live buffers. That's it.

Suggestions are a complete waste of time. They more often than not either tell me to watch something that is already in my Season Passes or stuff that I do not like at all. I think in 8 years of having Tivos in the house, I have found 2 whole movies that I wouldn't have found other ways.

And, while the original DTivos were responsive in trickplay, the HD Tivo is not. It often makes mistakes and does not like to jump forward or backward well.

Tivo is good. DirecTV DVR+ is good. I prefer the latter these days. If Tivo actually made progress on the DVR side, I would like it better but they make progress so painfully slowly.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

RedChef said:


> One feature that the D*TVs have that TIVO is lacking ... the ability to play all in a folder!


Actually, Tivo added that to the HD Tivos in the last software release.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Sirshagg said:


> Simply put it does what a DVR is supposed to do - It records what you tell it to record (on time) and plays it back. Some people will agrue that they have had all kinds of problems with Tivo's but in general I think you will find many more people who have had issue, and more of them, with the HRxx.
> 
> Other things:
> DLB
> ...


Recording reliability is the main reason I still like TiVo. Sure, sometimes the guide data is so wrong that even TiVo will screw up, but I bet for every 1 missed recording I had with TiVo I have 10 with the HR20. Now, DirecTV has worked on the HR20 quite a bit and maybe they have the recording issue fixed and this will not be as big of advantage for Fall 08. Somehow, the engineeres at TiVo have developed a better algorithym that just worked better.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

HDinMA said:


> What about MRV?
> 
> I think some of the features and options listed in this thread are more than mere "personal preference". But I guess that could cover just about anything.
> 
> The HR* boxes have been upgraded significantly, but they are always lagging behind. TiVo is on the cutting edge. That being said, there is no need to be a fanboy or loyalist. I see the pros and cons of both.





ebockelman said:


> That's not true. Tivo lets you start an MRV transfer from a paused point.


If you have to transfer the file to another machine before you watch it, it is not MRV... Its file transfer... MRV should be able to stream it immediately, so you can pause at one and start up the other within seconds.... And one of my main points... This was never activated on the Directv Tivos previously, and won't be on the new ones unless there is more control of this(in other words, you can't pull it out and make digital copies) from the Tivo's.



Ken S said:


> That's not really true.
> 
> Tivos have a suggestion system based on your prior use. They also have a search engine that doesn't force the user to search from ALL programming whether you subscribe to it or not. They also have a much better Parental Control/KidsZone feature to name just a few other differences.
> 
> ...


I can create keyword searches that catch more programs that I like than suggestions....



BruceS said:


> If, and I stress if, the new DirecTV requires a new box, I certainly hope they base it on the S3.
> 
> You can add many different capacity external drives, not just the WD DVR expander ones, which are limited to 500GB. I am currently using a 1TB external drive with my S3.
> 
> Of course, this may be less of an issue if it does require a new box which is bases on the HDTivo XL. These are supposed to come with a 1TB internal drive.


Ah, you can add all kinds of external drives to the HRx's right now... It may not be officially supported, but there are a lot of HD you can add today... Not much difference between that and what Tivo does by only ceretifing one small HD (yes, for external expansion I think 500 is too small...)



snedecor said:


> A feature that TiVo has that I want to keep (that's why I haven't jumped to Dish HD) is that TiVo can transfer files to and from the PC. The PC can be treated as another remote Multi-Room Viewing source. Once the shows are on the PC, they can be commercial-cut, re-encoded for ipods, etc. burned to DVD as any video file on a PC can.
> 
> For example, I transfer videos to the PC, this is done automatically as a series episode is recorded, the PC automatically copies it to the PC. I then cut the commercials, then master several of them to DVD for archive. I can also re-encode them for my iPhone and to DIVX to safe space. I have a lot more storage space on my PC than on my TiVo, so I use it to save things that I don't need right away, but might want to see later. I could rip all my DVD's to the PC's hard drive, and use MRV to view them, but the interface is not that robust, in my opinion, so I haven't done that.
> 
> ...


Your dreaming if you think the new tivo will allow you to transfer files to a pc so that you can then record them to blu ray and play them back on your blu ray player.. That will never happen... Thats one of the main reasons Directv tivos never had many featuers of the stand alone units... copyright issues... cable channels, especially those like hbo and starz, are far more protective f their content than OTA people.



Lee L said:


> Recording reliability is the main reason I still like TiVo. Sure, sometimes the guide data is so wrong that even TiVo will screw up, but I bet for every 1 missed recording I had with TiVo I have 10 with the HR20. Now, DirecTV has worked on the HR20 quite a bit and maybe they have the recording issue fixed and this will not be as big of advantage for Fall 08. Somehow, the engineeres at TiVo have developed a better algorithym that just worked better.


I have had more missed recordings on my HR10-250 Tivo than my 5 HR2X's combined over the last year... 2 vs. 0.... Pretty much a wash in reality though...


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

The more I read this, the more I am glad I wanted again this yr before coming over. Maybe in a year, the menu's will be better on D/Tivo, and recording reliablity will be better. That way I can a ViP quailty with NFL Ticket. To many people even those that REALLY enjoy the HRxx, talk about all the missed recording or blank recordings. Way to many threads on the issue as well. The complaints and running bickering over the guide, just shows both Tivo and Direct have lots of work left to make them better.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

bgottschalk said:


> With all the new threads swirling around and excitement so high, I just had to ask this question.
> 
> I'm not trying to start a flame war, I've just never used a TIVO and am truely curious what it is that makes people so devoted to TIVO that they put Mac zealots to shame. I couldn't be happier with my HR20 and HR21 and can't really imagine what could be that much better.
> 
> So here's your chance to educate the ignorant (me). What do you consider to be the greatest things about TIVO that you can't find on the HR2x models? Screenshots welcome...


Simple answer to thread title question: DLB


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## jhart05 (Aug 14, 2008)

_Not only is the text too big for an HD screen_

Well there you go.

I'm one of the poor saps who has to get by with a 28-inch (I think) *SD*TV, and before I got the dual R22's, an old R10.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Never had that [deleted items folder] on my D*Tivo's. That would be nice.


It was just recently added to the DirecTV Tivos.... at least to my SD R10s.

Another nice addition that I noticed on the latest DirecTV Tivos software updates is that when you try to start a manual recording that conflicts with a previously scheduled recording, it gives you the option to "*clip* or delete" the conflicting program so if it's just a 5 minute overlap, it's still recorded minus just the 5 minutes of conflict instead of having to cancel the conflicting recording in it's entirety.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Do any of the Tivos currently have picture and sound at all times while in all menu selections? This is one big plus that I love in my HR20 over my R-10 Tivo


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

bgottschalk said:


> Exactly why I don't think I would like that feature. I like to keep my hard drive clean. And I know what I want to record and watch - I don't a box deciding for me.


Tivo supposedly deletes any and all suggestion recordings before it deletes any user recording, so having suggestions turned on shouldn't make any difference. I mostly leave suggestions turned off for a different reason..... the suggestions never are any programs that I would have any interest in watching.


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

n3ntj said:


> Simple answer to thread title question: DLB


The average Joe Consumer doesn't care about DLB. The whole purpose of a DVR is so that you don't have to watch live TV. I know that there are some instances that DLB would be nice, but since I haven't watched live TV in about 6 years I can't say it is a big deal. And I do watch sports, just not live.

I remember when I was thinking of getting a DirecTIVO, and coming to the TIVO forums and every time some Newbie came on and had a question about watching TV twenty people would jump on them telling them they shouldn't be watching live TV at all, they "obviously" didn't know what a TIVO was and how to use it. Now here all it is "I want my DLB."

Sorry that is a personal preference feature like everything else listed that supposedly makes TIVO so great.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

DLB


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## edy (Aug 22, 2008)

I just recently switched from a DTiVo (after many years) to the HR21 and I have to say that the HR21 is as stable as the TiVo. I never used MRV, and rarely did I use DLB, so I don't miss those at all. I did, however, gain quite a few nice features. Being able to record by using the (R) button without being asked what I want to do is great. The guide is significantly faster. Searching with the remote texting style (1 -> ABC) is awesome and saves a lot of time. 30s SLIP rocks. And I finally have the small window with the current channel in the upper right hand corner while browsing through the menus and the list of programs. I had this with UltimateTV and then lost it when I moved to TiVo.

Yes, TiVo is pretty easy to use and intuitive. I don't think it's the greatest though. When I moved from UltimateTV to the DTiVo I felt that the DTiVo was less advanced. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the TiVo remote, which I think makes a huge difference in the user experience. The DTV remote has _way_ too many buttons. The TiVO remote has the time shifting fuctions right in the middle, where your thumb rests, which plays into what others have said -- it revolves around recordings.

There's nothing from TiVo that I miss, and for my needs, the HR21 does everything.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> Do any of the Tivos currently have picture and sound at all times while in all menu selections? This is one big plus that I love in my HR20 over my R-10 Tivo


Yeah, I loved that last night when I turned the tv on and spent ten seconds stabbing buttons trying to get the redskins/giants halftime score off the screen before I saw it.

I guess the good news is that it was a lousy game. The bad news is that I have no idea how I'm going to turn the tv on on sundays or monday nights and not get a game spoiled because there isnt any easy way to avoid the PIG. While I wont get any sympathy, the PIG on a 65" tv is about 19". Its tough to miss.

About the only work-around I can think of is putting another show on, pausing it and then just turning the tv off, then hoping my 3 year old doesnt press any buttons on the remote control.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

fornold said:


> The average Joe Consumer doesn't care about DLB. The whole purpose of a DVR is so that you don't have to watch live TV. I know that there are some instances that DLB would be nice, but since I haven't watched live TV in about 6 years I can't say it is a big deal. And I do watch sports, just not live.
> 
> I remember when I was thinking of getting a DirecTIVO, and coming to the TIVO forums and every time some Newbie came on and had a question about watching TV twenty people would jump on them telling them they shouldn't be watching live TV at all, they "obviously" didn't know what a TIVO was and how to use it. Now here all it is "I want my DLB."
> 
> Sorry that is a personal preference feature like everything else listed that supposedly makes TIVO so great.


Joe Consumer doesn't know what DLB means that's Joe Geek. 

But if you say " swapping tuners" then they know and say"Oh yeah I need that thing"!.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

What makes TIVO so great?.Don't know never had one until now as soon as I get my new card for this HR10-250 I plan to find out for myself.


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Joe Consumer doesn't know what DLB means that's Joe Geek.
> 
> But if you say " swapping tuners" then they know and say"Oh yeah I need that thing"!.


Doubt it very much. Much consumers don't even know what TIVO is, let alone that more than one tuner is useful for anything.

I had DLB before and I didn't use it that much, even with Sunday Ticket.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

fornold said:


> Doubt it very much. Much consumers don't even know what TIVO is, let alone that more than one tuner is useful for anything.
> 
> I had DLB before and I didn't use it that much, even with Sunday Ticket.


That's wishful thinking for sure.Don't know how much TV you watch but there have been several shows,sitcoms,morning shows that when the question comes up about recording a program?.The response is "I Tivoed it'!.

But here's the issue to me.I have never had Tivo but known several who have and they left DirecTV because of this.So to me the idea of offering both Tivo or the DirecTV + is the best of both.Choice that's what it's all about to me.Because to change and lose customers to me is not in the best interest for DirecTV.

But I know there are some that say we don't need it.Well you don't have to use it.Because DirecTV by the information in the article posted about DirecTV and Tivo is DirecTV is going to have both DVRs.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

t_h said:


> cartrivision said:
> 
> 
> > Do any of the Tivos currently have picture and sound at all times while in all menu selections? This is one big plus that I love in my HR20 over my R-10 Tivo
> ...


LOL, I guess you trying to cast such a great feature as a negative means that no, Tivos do not have that feature.

As far as the HUGE problem it is for you with watching games delayed, here is a real complex solution.... press pause and list before you turn on the TV. I know that's a lot harder to do than pressing the Tivo button on the Tivo remote before you turn the TV on, but most people can remember and handle the complex button sequence. If you think the paused PIG might still spoil the outcome because you don't have the discipline to not look at it up in the corner of the screen, add 3 presses of the select key and you will be playing the first thing in your playlist instead of any live TV.

I'd rather have PIG with an easy way to avoid tape delay spoilers than lose sound and video every time I want to do something in my DVR menus.


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## DanER40 (Oct 25, 2007)

Tivo was most peoples first experience with the wonderful world of DVRs. They got use to it and when they lost it they were lost puppies. It is a DVR for dummys. It can be used easily by grandma and little Timmy. This is just my opinion. If you are a dummy don't take offense.


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## fornold (Sep 4, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> That's wishful thinking for sure.Don't know how much TV you watch but there have been several shows,sitcoms,morning shows that when the question comes up about recording a program?.The response is "I Tivoed it'!.
> 
> But here's the issue to me.I have never had Tivo but known several who have and they left DirecTV because of this.So to me the idea of offering both Tivo or the DirecTV + is the best of both.Choice that's what it's all about to me.Because to change and lose customers to me is not in the best interest for DirecTV.
> 
> But I know there are some that say we don't need it.Well you don't have to use it.Because DirecTV by the information in the article posted about DirecTV and Tivo is DirecTV is going to have both DVRs.


I have seen some of the shows with those references. But hearing the term TIVO and understanding what it is and does are two very different things. In my experience talking with people about TIVO/DVRs most people just don't understand what it does.

Don't get me wrong I am all for more options. I don't have a problem at all with DirecTV offering TIVO again. I just don't get the cult like following things like TIVO, Apple, Linux, PS3, XBOX, Blu-Ray, etc. have. They are all choices for people and people are going to have different wants and needs. We aren't all lemmings


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## snedecor (Aug 22, 2002)

.... and I use TiVo. I don't know if grandma or Timmy do this but I:

- Increased the storage capacity from 80 GB to 400 GB.
- Transfer easily back and forth to my PC for basically unlimited storage.
- Convert these videos from my PC to ipod and other portable video formats.
- Access my TiVo from anywhere on the internet with the proper password, and view any recording from my remote PC.
- Transfer ANY video, home video, internet video, DVD's to my TiVo for watching when I want, including Youtube in the latest versions.
- Stream music and photos from my PC library to my TiVo
- Download free video content directly from the internet to my TiVo
- Purchase PPV from the internet and download it to my TiVo
- Schedule recordings anywhere I can get an internet connection, even from my iphone.
- Record a program on one TiVo, transfer it to another TiVo for remote viewing.

That's in addition to the regular stuff that "stupid" people do like,

- Season passes that record what I want, when I want, but won't record the same episode within 30 days, to keep from filling up with repeats.
- Save 1,2,3,5,10, 15, 20, or 25 of my favorite shows (my choice)
- Wishlists that record anything that matches any word in the description, such as "Bela Fleck"
- Automatically handle lineup changes from the cable or satellite company.
- Handle overlapping programs, clipping the less important program, but recording most of it intact, rather than not recording it at all.
- Dual live buffers, record from two inputs while watching a third.
- Trick play, 3 speeds of FF, skip 30 sec forward, 8 seconds back, skip to tick (15 min) backwards or forwards.
- List my recordings by title or by date recorded, with all similar recordings in a "folder" to keep from cluttering the interface
- Hold deleted items in an "Deleted items" folder for recovery if I make a mistake and delete the wrong episode.

Granted, the interface is dated, they've increased features without increasing hardware, so the interface is slow, and I wish it could do more, but it already does quite a lot.

Snarking at it will not make it a worse DVR. I do not talk down at your HR-whatevers, I don't even know about them. If TiVo does come to DirecTV, it will bring many subscribers that previously would not, and help your beloved company to survive.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

t_h said:


> I guess the good news is that it was a lousy game. The bad news is that I have no idea how I'm going to turn the tv on on sundays or monday nights and not get a game spoiled because there isnt any easy way to avoid the PIG. While I wont get any sympathy, the PIG on a 65" tv is about 19". Its tough to miss.


Hah, we noticed that when we upgraded from the old school 46" Mitsubishi HDTV to the new 58 inc 1080p plasma, that we could actually read the ESPN bottom line in the PIG from our seated position.

cartrivision, I had honestly had not thought about pressing pause and list first. I would try that excapt stupid Harmony refuses to put a hard list button on my remote.

I think this issue strikes people with more complex systems (we use a receiver and surround sound setup for everything, the speakers on my TV are off) and are more likely to use a universal remote. Many of them do not allow you to press any other buttons or even have access to the correct buttons until after the macro sequence turning everything on and switching it is done, which can often take a few seconds.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Sirshagg said:


> Some people will agrue that they have had all kinds of problems with Tivo's


Some people like me, Shaggy? All that money spent over four years on large hard drives and at least two of them crashed and burned each year. And the reboots, the constant reboots that nobody would take responsibility for, least of all the good folks at TiVo. And wait until you see the prices for the new D* TiVos.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TimG517 said:


> I too would like to see some screen shots of the GUI from TIVO


And you will find that the 20/21s have a better GUI. Easier to use and faster.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> IF, people have issues with their HR2X's, then I can certainly understand why they might want to go back to tivo. I got rid of all of my tivos 1 year ago and all 3 of my DVR's have been problem free ever since. They all do exactly what they're supposed to do - record and play back recordings.
> 
> Certainly, tivo has some features that the HR2X's don't have (yet), but I think the HR2X's have even more features that tivo's don't have. Several of the tivo items are ones I personally never used (guide, suggestions,MRV), while the HR2X's different features, I use much more frequently.
> 
> ...


Well said. You still find the occasional post lauding the Ultimate TV DVRs as the "best ever". And they certainly weren't.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DMG said:


> I feel the same way. Both my HR21s are going out the door as soon as the new TiVo for DirecTV is available.


That should only cost you about a thousand dollars.



> That's a good thing for DirecTV if they want my continued business since cable + standalone TiVos look pretty good right now.


Oh yeah, cables great and the stand-alone TiVos only cost what, about 13 dollars a month apiece? And the cable PQ is to die for. I just had a visit from the folks at Cablevision and showed them my D* setup and they admitted that my picture "would not improve" and to replicate my setup it would cost me twice as much a month or more. Switch to cable. You'll be back.

TiVo is the entity that wants your business. They are the one losing more and more subs to D*'s HRs.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

houskamp said:


> I'm gonna hang on to my HR2x's and scream cry and whine if they try to make me switch :hurah: :grin: :lol:


And the Puddy Tat is rarely wrong.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BruceS said:


> You can add many different capacity external drives, not just the WD DVR expander ones, which are limited to 500GB. I am currently using a 1TB external drive with my S3.


You don't really think the WD expander series is the only external drives you can use, do you? The 20s will work with every eSATA I have ever tried and the 21s will work with every eSATA except the FAPs. Neither will work with the WD MyBook eSATAs because WD set them up in such a way that they will not work with a DVR. I am running two 2TB eSATAs and five 750s on my seven 20/21s.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> The more I read this, the more I am glad I wanted again this yr before coming over. Maybe in a year, the menu's will be better on D/Tivo, and recording reliablity will be better. That way I can a ViP quailty with NFL Ticket. To many people even those that REALLY enjoy the HRxx, talk about all the missed recording or blank recordings. Way to many threads on the issue as well. The complaints and running bickering over the guide, just shows both Tivo and Direct have lots of work left to make them better.


Ever try reading and using a TiVo forum? Same bickering and complaining.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

fornold said:


> The average Joe Consumer doesn't care about DLB. The whole purpose of a DVR is so that you don't have to watch live TV. I know that there are some instances that DLB would be nice, but since I haven't watched live TV in about 6 years I can't say it is a big deal. And I do watch sports, just not live.
> 
> I remember when I was thinking of getting a DirecTIVO, and coming to the TIVO forums and every time some Newbie came on and had a question about watching TV twenty people would jump on them telling them they shouldn't be watching live TV at all, they "obviously" didn't know what a TIVO was and how to use it. Now here all it is "I want my DLB."
> 
> Sorry that is a personal preference feature like everything else listed that supposedly makes TIVO so great.


Well said. I don't watch "live" TV either. And I don't care about DLBs either. I am happy that TiVo is coming back and am curious to see how many of those people who want DLBs so badly will pay what I am sure will be a ridiculous price for the TiVos.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DanER40 said:


> Tivo was most peoples first experience with the wonderful world of DVRs. They got use to it and when they lost it they were lost puppies. It is a DVR for dummys. It can be used easily by grandma and little Timmy. This is just my opinion. If you are a dummy don't take offense.


You just said exactly what I was thinking. A TiVo is a "dumbed down" 20/21.

Rich


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> If you have to transfer the file to another machine before you watch it, it is not MRV... Its file transfer... MRV should be able to stream it immediately, so you can pause at one and start up the other within seconds.... And one of my main points... This was never activated on the Directv Tivos previously, and won't be on the new ones unless there is more control of this(in other words, you can't pull it out and make digital copies) from the Tivo's....


That IS how MRV works. If I'm watching something on one TiVo, and I pause it, then go to another TiVo, and ask it to fetch the program from the first unit, it gives me two options: "Transfer from start" and "Transfer from paused position".

It spools the recording to the local drive, sure...but if you're network is fast enough, you can start watching immeadiately. My wireless-G connected TiVos transfer SD at about 6x realtime (IOW, 60 minutes of program content takes about 10 minutes to transfer). That would be JUST fast enough to transfer HD in realtime. The wired locations are about 10x realtime (based on SD).

Transfer times are going to the same for ANY MRV system. You can only stream as fast as the network will allow. A lot of wireless networks won't be fast enough to stream HD in realtime, let alone faster than realtime (required if you want to FFWD through commercials), so I can't imagine DirecTV's MRV working significantly differently from TiVo's.

One last note..."virtualization" of multiple DVRs into one large distributed system has been high on the TiVo user's wishlist for a while. It would address not just insufficient tuners, but lack of available diskspace as well. But it is very difficult to implement since, to do it right, it needs to be a layer on top of the local software. IOW, you should not be concerned on which physical DVR anything is recorded...you should just schedule your shows, and select the recordings from a single "Now Playing" list. The actual DVR doing the recording, and the delivery of the recording to viewing location, should be transparent.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

fornold said:


> I have seen some of the shows with those references. But hearing the term TIVO and understanding what it is and does are two very different things. In my experience talking with people about TIVO/DVRs most people just don't understand what it does.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I am all for more options. I don't have a problem at all with DirecTV offering TIVO again. I just don't get the cult like following things like TIVO, Apple, Linux, PS3, XBOX, Blu-Ray, etc. have. They are all choices for people and people are going to have different wants and needs. We aren't all lemmings


Twenty years from now, Google will probably be gone and we will still be googling. Just as we walk out into the kitchen and open the "fridge" which is actually an Amana or some other brand. "Fridge" came from Frigidaire or refrigerator and stuck in people's minds (Frigidaire was the first self contained refrigerator). Think about it. How many times do you hear, "it's on the top shelf of the fridge"? I have never heard anyone say "it's on the top shelf of the Amana", have you?

From Wackapedia:

"Some older Americans refer to the refrigerator as "the Frigidaire," regardless of the brand-name (while others use the phrase "icebox") . Still others use the term "fridge", which is generally thought to be short for "refrigerator"."

Rich


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

rich584 said:


> You just said exactly what I was thinking. A TiVo is a "dumbed down" 20/21.
> 
> Rich


A *DirecTiVo* sure is...but that's because News Corp wanted to deploy their OWN DVR software to DirecTV users and froze the TiVo feature set in 2003.

I've had MRV on my DirecTiVos for about 4 years now...and 120 minute buffers, and photos, music, instant weather and local movie theater scheules. DirecTV is JUST getting to those features now in their software. They were in the TiVo software YEARS ago....DirecTV simply chose not to enable them.

TiVo also delivered VOD years before DirecTV implemented it in their DVRs, although that was in software versions that were never deployed to the DirecTiVos at all.

I have 2 DirecTV HD DVRs, one HR20 and one HR21. They are fine DVRs. I've had the HR20 for over a year and the HR21 for a couple of months. Other than the marked slowdown of the GUI at times in the HR21, I have no serious complaints. Give me MRV between them and I'll be a happy camper.

The HR2X are very capable DVRs...but so are modern TiVos. They each have good and not-so-good points. But neither is "dumbed down".


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> As far as the HUGE problem it is for you with watching games delayed, here is a real complex solution.... press pause and list before you turn on the TV.


Your complex solution is ineffective. The HR frequently doesnt 'get' remote button pushes, especially after its been sitting idle for a while. Without the tv on, theres no way to tell if it got the 'pause' or 'list' and actually did it.

I've also frequently had the HR give me the 'bonk' noise when I've pressed the pause key while its in the playlist or guide. Sometimes its 3-5 seconds and multiple button pushes before it 'takes'. I tried this approach and after testing I found it to be about 20% effective.

Even if the 'complex solution' works, I have a 20" PIG frozen on the screen, and as it happened on thursday...with the halftime score in large letters across the middle of it. I hit pause and list and turned the tv on to see that it didnt take the pause and the game was still running in the PIG. I hit pause two more times and got two 'bonks'. On the third hit, it took but didnt actually stop the screen until about 2-3 seconds later.

So yes, as a sports fan that wants to watch recorded sports while the game is on, not having the ability to turn off an on screen display of the current score is a huge problem.

As far as the PIG, its of no value whatsoever to me. When I'm in the menu's doing something, having an active show running and making noise isnt a benefit. 95% of the time I end up annoyed with it and pause it.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

rich584 said:


> You just said exactly what I was thinking. A TiVo is a "dumbed down" 20/21.
> 
> Rich


As I posted earlier in the other thread, after now playing with a Series3 twice in the past few days (to compare), I've now decided to withhold all judgment until playing with the actual new box.

For us HR2x converts, knocking the TiVo box as "dumbed down" might not be so true if they really port the complete TiVo HD software to new DirecTV hardware.

Let's be fair here. Honestly, candidly, go find someone with a TiVo Series 3 / TiVo HD box and actually play with it a good bit. I just did that.

Bring up the Home Media app, try to watch Photo's in HD. It's awesome.

Try to play music, it's instantaneous, and yep I've used the HR2x version.

Play with the new youtube connection, the stuff is pretty nice.

Bring up the TiVo new "grid" guide, not the "TiVo" guide. 8 shows per page, scrolls quick, zero delay. Very nice. And it now works while watching a recorded show.

I don't use the KidsZone stuff but people rave about it.

Anybody ever play with the Universal Swivel Search stuff, awfully cool as I played with it.

Then go to a laptop, bring up TiVo Desktop, click on recording list, click on a show, and it moves it to the laptop to take on the road. Digital HD shows!

And the Peanut remote (especially the high-end Glo version). Very nice. And it turns on/off both the TV and a home theater receiver with one button push.

No use knocking something we haven't seen yet.

Also no use promoting something we haven't seen yet.

But if they take the current TiVo code with all the bells and whistles and move it to 2009 DirecTV hardware, we should just wait and see.

Someone will probably flame me, I hesitated to even make this post because I'm a huge DirecTV fan, but I gotta be truthful.

Will make a real judgment when getting a chance to use the new box.

And I don't care how much it costs. With MLBEI and Sunday Ticket the bill is usually $150 anyway so another few dollars is not an issue, but will make a real comparison when it's available ... a long time from now.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Just trying to make a point.

Rich



Titan25 said:


> A *DirecTiVo* sure is...but that's because News Corp wanted to deploy their OWN DVR software to DirecTV users and froze the TiVo feature set in 2003.
> 
> I've had MRV on my DirecTiVos for about 4 years now...and 120 minute buffers, and photos, music, instant weather and local movie theater scheules. DirecTV is JUST getting to those features now in their software. They were in the TiVo software YEARS ago....DirecTV simply chose not to enable them.
> 
> ...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, by the time the TiVo comes out, I should be ready for some new toys. But I do think that a comparison between the 20/21s and the Series 2 (never had an HR10) TiVos would support my contention that the TiVos built a few years ago are not the equal of the 20/21s. The newer ones, I know nothing about and agree with you that I shouldn't have criticized something I know nothing about.

Rich



Sixto said:


> As I posted earlier in the other thread, after now playing with a Series3 twice in the past few days (to compare), I've now decided to withhold all judgment until playing with the actual new box.
> 
> For us HR2x converts, knocking the TiVo box as "dumbed down" might not be so true if they really port the complete TiVo HD software to new DirecTV hardware.
> 
> ...


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Sixto said:


> Then go to a laptop, bring up TiVo Desktop, click on recording list, click on a show, and it moves it to the laptop to take on the road. Digital HD shows!


A great feature that's available on a stand-alone TiVo, but something we'll likely never see on a D* broadcast.



> And the Peanut remote (especially the high-end Glo version). Very nice. And it turns on/off both the TV and a home theater receiver with one button push.


Honestly, I'm not concerned about the remote. I always use a programmable remote anyway. I prefer to be able to make the remote work the way I want it.



> No use knocking something we haven't seen yet.
> Also no use promoting something we haven't seen yet.


Agreed 100%!


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

t_h said:


> Your complex solution is ineffective. The HR frequently doesnt 'get' remote button pushes, especially after its been sitting idle for a while. Without the tv on, theres no way to tell if it got the 'pause' or 'list' and actually did it.
> 
> I've also frequently had the HR give me the 'bonk' noise when I've pressed the pause key while its in the playlist or guide. Sometimes its 3-5 seconds and multiple button pushes before it 'takes'. I tried this approach and after testing I found it to be about 20% effective.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I have not had a single one of these problems. Never had my HR20 fail to be in playlist and paused when I press those two keys before turning on the TV. Never. Not once. I suggest you learn how to use your remote. Additionally, I actually have the ability to not look at the paused PIG, and actually use that skill to avoid seeing any on-screen graphic with the score.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

rudeney said:


> A great feature that's available on a stand-alone TiVo, but something we'll likely never see on a D* broadcast.


TiVo-To-Go (TTG): Don't see why we wouldn't get it since CableLabs approved it for cable and they're tough. Both digital SD and HD work for cable.

Played with it for a little while today. You bring up the TiVo PC Desktop software, click to download the PlayList, select a show, and it copies it fully to the laptop. Very smooth. It shows the filesize and it takes a while (but not too long) and then it allows the playing of the recording offline with a media player.

If CableLabs approved it then hopeful DirecTV doesn't have any further security restrictions.

The "real" complaining will be when we find out what features don't make their way to DirecTV. I'm hoping for every TiVo Series3 9.4 feature except for those that have a direct conflict with DirecTV's business model like possibly Amazon Video-on-Demand.


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## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

For me it is DLB and rock solid reliablity. The HR series is getting better but still is not there yet. I still get blank recordings time to time. I still keep a hr10 around for my most important shows.

Did I mention DLB I still use my hr10 for football day. I can't wait to get a new tivo and super fan to have all games in HD with DLB.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

t_h said:


> The truth of it is, I've had more trouble with this product in six months than I had in 9 years with tivo. It seems that a lot of naysaying or truth telling is met with closing a thread or piling on the person making complaints.
> 
> The HR may be a good product some day. Right now it fails at performing its core functions reliably, the 'improvements' are subjective to the user, and I dont really see any major benefits vs the tivo. On the flip side, the tivo enjoys many features the HR doesnt have and that IMO they wont get for quite some time.


This just isn't accurate. You are generalizing that HR2x units fail for the great majority of users. This just isn't shown anywhere. I love Tivos, don't get me wrong. But they did have a ton of issues all their own.

What I have seen here is a desire to keep discussions fact-based. There is a loud minority complaining that the HR2x series fails to record anything correctly. This is very often associated with networks that do not provide accurate programming information. These same networks have been discussed over and over and yet, people choose to ignore the source of the problem.

I used an SD DirecTivo (Sony) for about three years. I had an SA8300HD cable DVR for 18 months. I have had an HR20-700 for one year now. The HR20-700 has been the most reliable by far. But, keep in mind, I don't do any series links on syndicated shows (the most likely to fail because of the networks' bad data). Zero missed shows in a year. I understand that others may have issues with recordings. But you cannot state that the HR2x series fails at recording shows for the majority of users. This has been covered countless times. If it were as much a failure as you would have us believe, it would not be so very widely installed.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gregjones said:


> This just isn't accurate. You are generalizing that HR2x units fail for the great majority of users. This just isn't shown anywhere. I love Tivos, don't get me wrong. But they did have a ton of issues all their own.


Oh boy, did they ever. I actually planned on losing at least two a season. And I lost at least two a season. The "Welcome" screen would come up and that was it. Put the original hard drive back in and it usually worked fine. Killed an expensive hard drive every time.



> What I have seen here is a desire to keep discussions fact-based. There is a loud minority complaining that the HR2x series fails to record anything correctly. This is very often associated with networks that do not provide accurate programming information. These same networks have been discussed over and over and yet, people choose to ignore the source of the problem.


Glad you recognized that too.



> But, keep in mind, I don't do any series links on syndicated shows (the most likely to fail because of the networks' bad data).


I do have those series links on a lot of syndicated shows and I have no problems. I think a lot of the people have problems with their "systems" rather than the HRs themselves. I do have one sick 20-700, but I know what caused that. And it will be replaced by the PP in a day or two.



> Zero missed shows in a year. I understand that others may have issues with recordings. But you cannot state that the HR2x series fails at recording shows for the majority of users. This has been covered countless times. If it were as much a failure as you would have us believe, it would not be so very widely installed.


Agreed, but you gotta wonder how many people without access to the kind of info available on this forum (or even know about this forum) have problems and are using the 20/21s as receivers or doorstops.

Have you ever seen any figures on the number of HRxxs in use? Wonder how many there are.

Good post.

Rich


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Have you ever seen any figures on the number of HRxxs in use? Wonder how many there are.
> 
> Good post.
> 
> Rich


We do know that the number of HR2x DVRs compared to HR10-250s activated is staggering. They HR2x is by far the majority of the DirectTV HD DVRs out there.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

gregjones said:


> We do know that the number of HR2x DVRs compared to HR10-250s activated is staggering. They HR2x is by far the majority of the DirectTV HD DVRs out there.


I know in a few days there will be another HR10-250 activated.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

gregjones said:


> This just isn't accurate. You are generalizing that HR2x units fail for the great majority of users. This just isn't shown anywhere. I love Tivos, don't get me wrong. But they did have a ton of issues all their own.
> 
> What I have seen here is a desire to keep discussions fact-based. There is a loud minority complaining that the HR2x series fails to record anything correctly. This is very often associated with networks that do not provide accurate programming information. These same networks have been discussed over and over and yet, people choose to ignore the source of the problem.
> 
> I used an SD DirecTivo (Sony) for about three years. I had an SA8300HD cable DVR for 18 months. I have had an HR20-700 for one year now. The HR20-700 has been the most reliable by far. But, keep in mind, I don't do any series links on syndicated shows (the most likely to fail because of the networks' bad data). Zero missed shows in a year. I understand that others may have issues with recordings. But you cannot state that the HR2x series fails at recording shows for the majority of users. This has been covered countless times. If it were as much a failure as you would have us believe, it would not be so very widely installed.


Actually I made no such claims.

I said I've had more problems with the HR than the tivo. I didnt say the units fail for a majority of users or that the HR 'fails to record anything'.

Most of my issues have had nothing to do with guide data.

So if you like keeping discussions 'fact based', you might take a whirl at reading a post before over generalizing and mis-stating what was said.

Tivo did indeed have problems, but I rarely had any instances of recording and playback failures. My HR's have. 99% of my tivo problems also had nothing to do with the guide data content provided to directv, but with the 'new datastream' that directv implemented a couple of years ago.

According to Directv representatives and many people here, these problems would be resolved by getting rid of my R10's and going to the HR receivers. That simply hasnt been my experience.

I suppose one could say that the problems are restricted to less than a majority of users. But then again practically every software update I've seen has included "under the hood improvements", "tuning robustness" and "recording reliability" fixes. If it wasnt broken for a substantial number of users, why was it fixed?!?

I've also been told by two directv representatives that the "black screen" recordings are a known bug in the software that should be fixed in the next release.

So I think my characterization that the HR shows more problems with simple recording issues is well born out by directv's own patch history, and the complaints described here. I've also said several times that I think the level of problems is directly related to how strenuously the product is used. I have a lot of series links for a lot of shows that are on a lot. This box is recording on one tuner almost all the time and the second tuner is probably in use half the time.

But it was the same with our R10's.

Just so I'm not painted with the tivo fanboy brush, does it help that I think that almost everyone working for tivo outside of their developers is a complete idiot? That the company is still in business is quite amazing to me.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

t_h said:


> Actually I made no such claims.
> 
> I said I've had more problems with the HR than the tivo. I didnt say the units fail for a majority of users or that the HR 'fails to record anything'.
> 
> ...


The numerous complaints about missed recordings on the HR2x are largely related to guide data, prioritization and exactly what the end user told the unit to do. The blank recordings are a specific bug and do impact some customers. I was not referring to them at all.

You're right: even when Tivo was the only real player in the market, they continually snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. I would rather they had handled this when they first offered the HR10-250. Had they (Tivo and DirecTV) managed that relationship more proactively, we would not have two products competing for the same marketshare.

If you find a bug, you fix it. It doesn't really matter if it is 100 users or 200,000. If you can fix it fairly easily without a downside, you fix it. This is true for almost any software, so the "substantial number of users" argument is a fallacy.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Dude, there was a rash of non-recordings last year: search for "program not available (13)". Now, there may be some relation to guide data (but DirecTV has of course not told us exactly what the problem was), but even at the time the HR20s were screwing the pooch, the HR10s still in service recorded the exact same shows at the exact same times on the exact same channels using (so we are told) the exact same guide data without issue. If that does not point out an instance where the TiVo system worked better than the HR2x I don't know what does.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gregjones said:


> We do know that the number of HR2x DVRs compared to HR10-250s activated is staggering. They HR2x is by far the majority of the DirectTV HD DVRs out there.


Speaking of staggering, the price for the HR10s and the subsequent cost of upgrading the hard drive was really staggering. And what will the new ones cost? I think we are about to be ''staggered'' again.

Rich


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

gregjones said:


> The numerous complaints about missed recordings on the HR2x are largely related to guide data, prioritization and exactly what the end user told the unit to do. The blank recordings are a specific bug and do impact some customers. I was not referring to them at all.


I cant say that I see any data to support this assertion. My recording problems all but went away once I cut my number of series links down towards the 40 mark from the 50 limit. That suggests to me that my problems are not related to guide data. Seems to me I've seen plenty of other reported issues of failed recordings and blank recordings that had nothing to do with guide data.

I have to tell ya...its this sort of rosy "this thing works great except for a minority of people, and their problems are largely self inflicted" theme that got me to switch products. Unfortunately the reality hasnt been that rosy.



> the "substantial number of users" argument is a fallacy.


Staying within the boundaries of a fact based discussion, I see no actual data to support this assertion either. Directv obviously has a lot of plans and features, and would be very unlikely to expend extensive resources fixing problems that were primarily caused by bad guide data (which they dont control) and only affected a small number of users.

The reality is that this product is very much a work in progress. It seems to be much improved over a year ago or since its inception. It is a very natural transition product for people who used to use a regular directv receiver that had no recording capabilities, since it uses the same remote and has a similar look and feel. For people with low to moderate recording requirements that dont push the capabilities of the box, it likely works just fine 99% of the time.

But for someone who is going to push the box to its limits and has an expectation of highly reliable recording and playback...its just not there yet.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

As excited as we all are about the recent agreement between DIRECTV and TiVo, there is not enough real information to justify two threads. We will continue to keep the other thread in this forum open as long as there is continued conversation, but this thread is closed. New threads on this topic will be merged into the other TiVo thread.


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