# Cooling pad or fan?



## mbuser (Jul 6, 2006)

My HR20-700 is running at 127 pretty consistently, and it has lots of clearance on top. Sounds high to me. Has anybody added some kind of cooling device to make it run at a lower temperature? Its seems that would at the very least make some of the internal stuff last longer. Any suggestions on what to use?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mbuser said:


> My HR20-700 is running at 127 pretty consistently, and it has lots of clearance on top. Sounds high to me. Has anybody added some kind of cooling device to make it run at a lower temperature? Its seems that would at the very least make some of the internal stuff last longer. Any suggestions on what to use?


Try a Targus laptop cooling fan unit - about $15-$16, and lowers the temp about 4-8 degrees, depending on what speed you run it. It can sit right on top and pull out the warm air. ALso...it runs via the USB port on the back of the HR20.


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

I didn't want to block my HR20-700 vents, so I hung the cooler from the back blowing over the HR20. Reduces it to 116 degrees on average.


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## mbuser (Jul 6, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Try a Targus laptop cooling fan unit - about $15-$16, and lowers the temp about 4-8 degrees, depending on what speed you run it. It can sit right on top and pull out the warm air. ALso...it runs via the USB port on the back of the HR20.


Is this it? Targus laptop Chill Mat on sale at Circuit City for $19.99

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=186578&WT.mc_n=93&WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON%20SHOPPING&cm_cat=BIZRATE&cm_pla=DATAFEED->PRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=93

Depending on the size it seems like it would cover up all those holes on top of the HR20.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

My two units run between 124 to 127 degrees without any problems at all. I don't think that is too warm for this kind of equipment, the big plus is that the temperature is constant as the units never power down.


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## Andrew67 (Aug 13, 2007)

I have a 120mm pc fan sitting on top of my HR20 and the temperatures have dropped from 127c down to 97c. The fan is a standard pc case fan wired to a Radio Shack power brick, total cost of parts is $10.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Neither.

Completely unnecessary at 127 degrees.


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## 506PIR (Sep 22, 2006)

Mines been running that hot for I dont know how long. Doesnt seem hurt my HR20 any.


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## gazzie4 (Mar 15, 2007)

I've got mine running at 89 degrees at a constant. Bought a fan that sits on top and pulls the heat away even in a warm closet


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

psweig said:


> I didn't want to block my HR20-700 vents, so I hung the cooler from the back blowing over the HR20. Reduces it to 116 degrees on average.


I ran a test on this in case the fan or usb port failed one day. The side vents and little feet on the targus did not let it overheat. It went back up to 127 and leveled off with the internal fan.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> Neither.
> 
> Completely unnecessary at 127 degrees.


I still think the jury is out on that. Only time will tell.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

armophob said:


> I still think the jury is out on that. Only time will tell.


I cannot believe that 127 degrees could possibly be anywhere near hot enough to be a problem. What is the average operating temp for a laptop? My wife's HP laptop gets so warm I can't keep it on my lap. And that is the most rock solid PC I have ever used.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> I cannot believe that 127 degrees could possibly be anywhere near hot enough to be a problem. What is the average operating temp for a laptop? My wife's HP laptop gets so warm I can't keep it on my lap. And that is the most rock solid PC I have ever used.


I am just real anal about electronics and keeping them cool. I just don't like the fact that this device on its own is as warm as an audio amplifier. It is possible that it could survive the heat for many years, but I can't be convinced that high heat can be considered good for it.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

armophob said:


> I am just real anal about electronics and keeping them cool. I just don't like the fact that this device on its own is as warm as an audio amplifier. It is possible that it could survive the heat for many years, but I can't be convinced that high heat can be considered good for it.


Okay. I still say _unnecessary_, but it can't hurt.


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

mbuser said:


> My HR20-700 is running at 127 pretty consistently, and it has lots of clearance on top. Sounds high to me. Has anybody added some kind of cooling device to make it run at a lower temperature? Its seems that would at the very least make some of the internal stuff last longer. Any suggestions on what to use?


My HR20 ran 128 before I added an external fan (See below). It now generally runs in the mid-90's. I purchased one of each of the following items from The Cooler Guys:

* CS 110v AC to 12v DC Power Supply with 4 Pin Molex Adapter
* Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D <----this is the silent version) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan

Total cost was $29.44 plus $9.38 shipping -- bringing the total to $38.82).

I put the fan (which is absolutely silent by the way) on top of my HR20-700. When I added the fan, it went from 128 to 97 in under an hour! That's a 31 degree drop! I've observed the temperature for another hour and it seems to be stable at 96-97.


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## gazzie4 (Mar 15, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Okay. I still say _unnecessary_, but it can't hurt.


Although it may be unnecessary, I have found, as with computers, the cooler the device the faster and more stable it runs.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Ok how about this question, do you let the fan blow air into the HR20 or have it suck the air out of it? Thanks


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## gazzie4 (Mar 15, 2007)

Mine sucks it out, so it pulls from the other vents and out where my fan sits


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Ok how about this question, do you let the fan blow air into the HR20 or have it suck the air out of it? Thanks


The targus sucks it out.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

armophob said:


> The targus sucks it out.


Right, so should you put the pad under or on top then, I mean heat rises right?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

theratpatrol said:


> Right, so should you put the pad under or on top then, I mean heat rises right?


On top, upside down.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Right, so should you put the pad under or on top then, I mean heat rises right?


Yes, there are no real vents underneath, sides and top so as hilmar2k states you flip it down on the top. You can also add a second pad like I did by using the front usb to cool another piece of equipment near by. Or even direct the exhaust of the first to blow across the receiver or other equipment.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

I have a targus chillmat undernearth my HR20 with the chillmat vents facing out the back. The temp of the HR20 went from 129 to 115. I've noticed that when I walk by now and set my hand on top it's not nearly as warm feeling on top as it used to be.


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## oenophile (Dec 1, 2006)

lflorack said:


> My HR20 ran 128 before I added an external fan (See below). It now generally runs in the mid-90's. I purchased one of each of the following items from The Cooler Guys:
> 
> * CS 110v AC to 12v DC Power Supply with 4 Pin Molex Adapter
> * Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D <----this is the silent version) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan
> ...


This is the way to go.



theratpatrol said:


> Ok how about this question, do you let the fan blow air into the HR20 or have it suck the air out of it? Thanks


Suck out.



gazzie4 said:


> Although it may be unnecessary, I have found, as with computers, the cooler the device the faster and more stable it runs.


It is completely unnecessary if your temp is under 130. These things are designed to go much higher. If you're planning on keeping more than 5 years, maybe; but almost everyone will replace w/i 5 years. (Oh, and if you're running eSata, it is completely useless. We're really only talking about the hard drive; all the rest of the components can handle much higher for certain.)


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## kiddk1 (Oct 17, 2003)

hilmar2k said:


> I cannot believe that 127 degrees could possibly be anywhere near hot enough to be a problem. What is the average operating temp for a laptop? My wife's HP laptop gets so warm I can't keep it on my lap. And that is the most rock solid PC I have ever used.


I hope you dont want anymore kids 
http://www.laptraxx.com/heatproblems.html

"Laptop heat can reduce fertility

In addition to a hot laptop being uncomfortable to use, if you are a man, it may reduce your fertility. [3]

A recent research study of 29 healthy male volunteers measured right and left scrotal temperature in every 3 minutes in two separate 60 min sessions: sitting and working with and without the laptop on the thighs. With the laptop in the lap, skin temperature was significantly higher (P<0.0001).

The researchers concluded that working with a laptop positioned on the thighs causes significant elevation of skin temperature in the groin as a result of heat exposure and posture-related effects. Long-term exposure to repetitive hot laptop use in the lap may have a negative impact upon fertility, specifically in teenage boys and young men. "


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## Justinto (Jul 15, 2006)

lflorack said:


> My HR20 ran 128 before I added an external fan (See below). It now generally runs in the mid-90's. I purchased one of each of the following items from The Cooler Guys:
> 
> * CS 110v AC to 12v DC Power Supply with 4 Pin Molex Adapter
> * Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D <----this is the silent version) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan
> ...


This looks like a great deal. Did you put the fan any particular place atop the unit? I am sure you put it upside down to suck out the air - right?


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## thekochs (Oct 7, 2006)

I looked around alot and found most laptop coolers are inverted to what you want in air flow direction. Ideally you want to pull air from the unit away from the internal semiconductor ICs....not push in. If you look at the vents/holes in the Hx20s the best way to move air is to pull out of top. Thus, I found this particular cooler pad at FRYS for ~$24. It sits on top of the Hx20s and the bumpers (footers) are on correct side for offset and pulls air up & out. My H20-100 and 600 does not have temp gauge like HR20-700 but the 600 is now just a little warm instead of very hot to the touch....100 ambient temp (cool). My HR20 went from 135F to 109F. Quiet fans too !

Here is the link: Vantec Lapcool2

http://www.vantecusa.com/p_lpc301.html

Also, for those saying 127 is OK think about this...the temp you see on the HR20 is the HDD temp. Most HDDs are rated at 55C or 60C max. At 127 you are at 52F, 140 is max 60C. I've run alot of HTPCs with alot of HDDs and I can tell you that over a period of time....year or so...running above even 45C cuts the life down. I see this in my SMART software in how the degrading seems to fall off in comparison of HDDs. Thus, for $20 or so to drop temp to this level is far worth the effort....IMHO.


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## jeffloby (Dec 3, 2005)

I have a Targus cooling pad on both of my units. Both run about 105' now instead of 127'-129'.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

kiddk1 said:


> I hope you dont want anymore kids
> http://www.laptraxx.com/heatproblems.html
> 
> "Laptop heat can reduce fertility
> ...


I did say it was wife's laptop, didn't I? 

My laptop is a Thinkpad running nice and cool. Hmmmmm, maybe we should trade.


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

Justinto said:


> This looks like a great deal. Did you put the fan any particular place atop the unit? I am sure you put it upside down to suck out the air - right?


I put the fan to the left side of the HR20-700 (looking from the front) over the cooling slots in the cover. The fan is set to pull air out of the HR20.

BTW, another advantage of this unit besides its effectiveness, and quietness is its very long MTBF.


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Ok how about this question, do you let the fan blow air into the HR20 or have it suck the air out of it? Thanks


It's always better to have the air pulled out of the unit.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

oenophile said:


> This is the way to go.
> 
> Suck out.
> 
> It is completely unnecessary if your temp is under 130. These things are designed to go much higher. If you're planning on keeping more than 5 years, maybe; but almost everyone will replace w/i 5 years. (Oh, and if you're running eSata, it is completely useless. We're really only talking about the hard drive; all the rest of the components can handle much higher for certain.)


You might think it's useless but not everyone does. If you can run the HR20 10-20 degrees cooler it's got to be better for it.


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## TriggerDeems (Mar 1, 2007)

The "problem" I've found with most of these laptop cooling fans is that they are loud. This one is in my living room, and you can not hear it running. Granted, it probably doesn't move as much air as some of the more noisy ones, but it does keep it cooler by about 10 degrees. And, it is INEXPENSIVE....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16834992008


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## oenophile (Dec 1, 2006)

glennb said:


> You might think it's useless but not everyone does. If you can run the HR20 10-20 degrees cooler it's got to be better for it.


This particular argument has been gone over again and again and again on avsforum and other boards. Without personally taking a position on this, because I, frankly, have no idea....I feel the need to point out two things to those folks who are considering spending money on extra cooling....

FIRST - Why would you want it cooler? The sole reason why you'd want cooling is to extend hard drive life and to prevent hard drive errors. (The remaining semiconductor and other parts of the HR20 are virtually impervious to heat at temps below 180F--this isn't really a disputed point.) So....you're cooling to save your hard drive.

SECOND - The largest most comprehensive complete scientific study, ever, on hard drive failures/errors was recently done by Google.

That study stated...believe it or not....


> Surprisingly, we found that temperature and activity levels were much less correlated with drive failures than previously reported.


 In fact, as Engadget points out the study demonstratest that:


> there is less correlation between drive temperature and failure rates than might have been expected, and drives that are cooled excessively actually fail more often than those running a little hot.


In short, this study (along with other concurrences subsequent to the study) implies that the temperatures you're worried about (130 degrees or less) and the operating conditions you're worried about (continuous) should not be a factor for the HR20. In fact, it implies that some of the temps I've seen here (below 90 for example) may be harmful to the equipment.

I have no idea whether the study is right, or wrong; or whether this means you should or shouldn't buy cooling devices. (I personally have them.) However, I think it is important to point out that cooling the HR20 below the normal operating temperature is most likely unnecessary (and not even a little beneficial). For those folks who care about spending $20-$100, they might be better off avoiding spending dough on something like this.

Link to Engadget's review of the Google study is here: http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/18/massive-google-hard-drive-survey-turns-up-very-interesting-thing/

(The link to the Google study embedded in Engadget's report no longer works.)

Working link to Google study is here (warning: long PDF): http://209.85.163.132/papers/disk_failures.pdf


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## mbuser (Jul 6, 2006)

That's truly amazing. I got a Targus and put it on top of the HR20, upside down on the left side like someone suggested. It's been less than 2 hours and the temp has dropped from 124-127 to 89. I'll check it again later, but don't really expect it to drop any more. That's a temp reduction of 35 degrees or so, or 30% of the original temperature. It's pretty ugly sitting on top like that, but I'm really happy about it anyway.


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## Justinto (Jul 15, 2006)

lflorack said:


> I put the fan to the left side of the HR20-700 (looking from the front) over the cooling slots in the cover. The fan is set to pull air out of the HR20.
> 
> BTW, another advantage of this unit besides its effectiveness, and quietness is its very long MTBF.


I got this setup - Thanks for the recommendation. I was only able to lower the temp from 127 to 116. Does this sound right or am I doing something wrong? I know the fan is blowing out. There is no enclosure


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

Justinto said:


> I got this setup - Thanks for the recommendation. I was only able to lower the temp from 127 to 116. Does this sound right or am I doing something wrong? I know the fan is blowing out. There is no enclosure


I think it's difficult to do it incorrectly. I just put the fan to the left side of the HR20-700 (looking from the front) over the cooling slots in the cover (near the rear of the unit). My fan is set to pull air out of the HR20. Mine is not really enclosed -- although it's on a shelf with another shelf above it (about 4-5 inches). There's nothing on the front or sides of the shelves but the back is covered.

I guess I'd just check that the fan is situated over the vents that I described above. Other than that, I'm not sure what else you can do.


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