# no MAC address?



## amcdonald307 (Mar 21, 2007)

Under menu 6-1-9-1, should you be able to see a MAC address, even if you haven't had it connected to a network yet?

Trying to hook up the network for the first time with HomePlug (obviously it isn't plug-and-play, or I wouldn't be posting). I have a Netgear XE102, which all lights appear to be normal. When I try to "Reset Connection" I do see a little activity on the XE102 lights. Before I run out and get a 50' cable to try the ethernet port, I was wondering if the MAC address should not already be assigned(?). It's not part of the network setup process (is it?).
Any thoughts?


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

I don't use Homeplug. Hard wired, it displays all 0's until Reset Connection is selected, and accepted, even though the LED is flashing on the router.
When I cannot get an address (hard-wired), I restart all the components (modem; router; receiver) and that has always fixed it.


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## amcdonald307 (Mar 21, 2007)

My premise here is that if a MAC address does not exist on the 622, you will not be able to hook it up to a network regardless. It needs the MAC address in order to even establish a dialog with the network. Further, I assume the MAC address should have been assigned at installation, in the factory, or by upload. And because I don't see a MAC, that must be the problem I am going to have hooking this up using any method.
Am I wrong about how MAC addresses work and are assigned?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Mac Address is something usually not set during setup and for the 622/722 there is no setup. MAC address is also referred to as a physical address and it is something that does not get assigned. It is set most of the time when the box is built and it comes with a hardcoded address. I know in the past some networks cards would allow you to change it but that is not something common and definitely not common with the 622/722. It is hard coded. My guess is the reason it is not showing up is that the box has not gotten an IP address and until it does it does not show up the physical address. Hopefully someone that is not connected can verify this. If not, I will when I get home and check the box in the room that is not connected to the network.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

One problem I have seen discussed here (can't remember where or I would link to it)... Some folks have firewalls or routers that are configured to filter/restrict MAC addresses as a form of protection.

In the case of the ViP receiver, it wouldn't be able to get an IP address until that filter is lifted.. so I have heard of a few people that had to change their network to allow all MAC addresses temporarily. That permitted the ViP receiver to get an IP.. and then you can go look at the ViP config menu and write down its MAC address and go back to configure your network to allow that MAC address permission to get an IP, and finally turn back on your MAC filtering protection.

I'm sure someone who has actually gone through this can explain a little better than I did though.


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## mike_atkinson (Sep 28, 2007)

amcdonald307 said:


> Under menu 6-1-9-1, should you be able to see a MAC address, even if you haven't had it connected to a network yet?


The MAC address is assigned at the factory but it doesn't display on the screen until it has an ip address.. In my case, I use a *nix router and used a packet sniffer on the network to determine the MAC address so that I could configure DHCP to assign an IP.

I think most consumer routers don't require and default to no MAC restrictions and will assign an IP when the receiver is connected. So, for most people, this flaw doesn't matter; for the security conscious or paranoid, not showing the MAC address until an IP assigned is somewhat annoying.


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Mac Address is something usually not set during setup and for the 622/722 there is no setup. MAC address is also referred to as a physical address and it is something that does not get assigned. It is set most of the time when the box is built and it comes with a hardcoded address. I know in the past some networks cards would allow you to change it but that is not something common and definitely not common with the 622/722. It is hard coded. My guess is the reason it is not showing up is that the box has not gotten an IP address and until it does it does not show up the physical address. Hopefully someone that is not connected can verify this. If not, I will when I get home and check the box in the room that is not connected to the network.


Only my 722 is connected to broadband. Both 622's show all 0's. When my 722 loses connection and needs Reset Connection selected, MAC address shows 0.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

So Ken.. sounds like the mac only shows when there is a connection. Hmm interesting.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I think the reason the MAC address does not show until there is a connection is because the receiver actually has two MAC addresses. There is, of course, a different MAC address for the Ethernet wired port (NIC) and another one for the HomePlug interface. It automatically selects the one on which it can get a connection and it will then display the MAC address of the interface that has the connection.

I had a problem at one time with getting a non-working HomePlug connection and the receiver would try using that and not use the working Ethernet connection until I did a Reset. I saw different MAC addresses for the two connections.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

The ViP has a MAC address for the homeplug, and a different MAC address for Ethernet. I have the Netgear XE xxx. What I found out is that the ViP must be directly plugged into the wall outlet or with a homeplug certified surge device. Also, if the AC circuit has GFCI, the network will not work. You may have to test a couple of outlets for the Netgear if the signal is below 5Mbps or drops to zero frequently. Sometimes a poorly grounded refrigerator or motorized device will interfere with the Netgear signal.

Once the ViP handshakes with the router, the MAC address, IP address and Subnet Mask appear. It sometimes is hit and miss for DNS and settings in the router may need adjusted to allow the new device (ViP) connection.

I should also add that if you got the Netgear XExxx new the default security setting is, "homeplug.". If you got it used the security may be set to something else and should be reset by using the powerline encryption utility.


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> So Ken.. sounds like the mac only shows when there is a connection. Hmm interesting.


I think it's in the display of what the page shows, and perhaps not what actually exists.
As example, if I were to unplug the e/net cable from the 722, and then select Reset Connection, 0's would be displayed on the Connection page:

```
IP Address    0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask   0.0.0.0
Primary DNS   0.0.0.0
Secondary DNS 0.0.0.0
MAC Address   0.0.0.0
Connection Status   Not Connected
```
Once I plug the e/net cable back into the 722, and again select Reset Connection, would the IP, Subnet and MAC display:

```
IP Address    192.168.1.105
Subnet Mask   255.255.255.0
Primary DNS   24.xxx.xxx.xx
Secondary DNS 24.xxx.xx.xxx
MAC Address   xx:xx:xx:1a:2b:xx
Connection Status   Connected Online
```
Obviously the MAC address exists within the receiver, but I believe it only shows in the display once a connection is established.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

I believe ChuckA is correct. It would be nice if the 622 would display them before a connection is established, though. It could show both and say which is which.

I normally have my dhcp server set up to provide static addresses based upon mac address. So, I had to let it get dynamically assigned first, then set up my static host.

Why do I do this? Because I also assign a DNS name for all my home devices and didn't want to bother with configuring dynamic dns updates.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Good thread guys... I will add it to the FAQ sticky.


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

Ken Green said:


> MAC Address xx:xx:xx:1a:2b:xx


I haven't verified that Dish uses only one manufacturer, but the first 3 sets of xx should be the same on all recievers if they do. Thought I would just let you know since you x'ed out the first part instead of the last 3.


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

jkane said:


> I haven't verified that Dish uses only one manufacturer, but the first 3 sets of xx should be the same on all recievers if they do. Thought I would just let you know since you x'ed out the first part instead of the last 3.


I just x'd them randomly, the actual MAC Address on my 722 is formatted as:
NN:NN:NN:Nx:Nx:NN (N=numeric; x=lower case alpha)
The first three are all digits, and all unique.
The next two are Digit/Lower Case Alpha, and all unique
The last is all digits, and also unique

As example (there are random used entries)
88:56:35:4v:7d:23

The MAC Address remains the same when Reset Connection is selected.

If you want to compare the first 3 to another machine, as I believe your post indicates, on my 722, they are actually:
00:08:89


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## masman (Nov 20, 2004)

amcdonald307 said:


> Under menu 6-1-9-1, should you be able to see a MAC address, even if you haven't had it connected to a network yet?
> 
> Trying to hook up the network for the first time with HomePlug (obviously it isn't plug-and-play, or I wouldn't be posting). I have a Netgear XE102, which all lights appear to be normal. When I try to "Reset Connection" I do see a little activity on the XE102 lights. Before I run out and get a 50' cable to try the ethernet port, I was wondering if the MAC are address should not already be assigned(?). It's not part of the network setup process (is it?).
> Any thoughts?


MAC addresses are built into equipment (network interface cards) at the hardware level. They are not "assigned" later nor can they be. They are identifiers that are unique to each piece of hardware that is hooked to a network and no other device in the world has the same address.

Mark


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

masman said:


> MAC addresses are built into equipment (network interface cards) at the hardware level. They are not "assigned" later nor can they be. They are identifiers that are unique to each piece of hardware that is hooked to a network and no other device in the world has the same address.


Exactly!

The reason for this, in case anyone is curious... while many of us hook up multiple devices behind our routers with "fake" IP addresses internal so only our gateway gets a real internet IP address... Each network-equipped device has to be equipped with a unique network identifier (the MAC address) in the event that it is directly connected to the internet. Since they have no way of knowing what will be plugged where, everything has to be unique to avoid some major problems on the internet if a duplicate MAC address showed up!


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

HDMe said:


> Exactly!
> 
> The reason for this, in case anyone is curious... while many of us hook up multiple devices behind our routers with "fake" IP addresses internal so only our gateway gets a real internet IP address... Each network-equipped device has to be equipped with a unique network identifier (the MAC address) in the event that it is directly connected to the internet. Since they have no way of knowing what will be plugged where, everything has to be unique to avoid some major problems on the internet if a duplicate MAC address showed up!


Amazing what can be learned here.  
HD, does that mean, what Jk posted:


jkane said:


> I haven't verified that Dish uses only one manufacturer, but the first 3 sets of xx should be the same on all recievers if they do. Thought I would just let you know since you x'ed out the first part instead of the last 3.


is, or is not correct? Or is the first 3 common to a particular manufacturer, used to identify the manufacturer, and the second 3 unique to that particular manufacturer?

Bear with me, just trying to get it down


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

As long as we're having so much fun here, while it is true that every device has a unique hardware id, it can be spoofed. Every packet has the mac address in it, but some routers (like my Netgear) can spoof it. It's pretty clever. You can tell the router what you want the mac address to be and it then replaces the real address with whatever you said in outbound packets, converting it back to the real address inbound.

Of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with 622's.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Ken Green said:


> Amazing what can be learned here.
> HD, does that mean, what Jk posted:
> 
> is, or is not correct? Or is the first 3 common to a particular manufacturer, used to identify the manufacturer, and the second 3 unique to that particular manufacturer?
> ...


Probably makes sense. In the early days of doling out the IP address ranges, certain companies got certain ranges of addresses. I used to remember many of them and could tell what company someone was connecting from by their IP. Now I have to go the "who is" or some other route if I want to know.

Makes sense that there could be levels of the MAC address that are "assigned" to a particular hardware manufacturer. In this specific case "hardware manufacturer" would apply to the NIC manufacturer if it is a plug-in component, but could apply to the motherboard manufacturer for on-board connectivity.

Basically there has to be some system in place so companies can simultaneously crank out these devices without conflicts.


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

Exactly! Although IP addressses can be assigned and reassigned, the MAC address MUST be unique. It is different for every device on the planet. To ensure this, Manufacturers are assigned ranges of addresses. Typically the first 3 hex numbers are given to a manufacturer. They then produce devices that have different addresses in the final 3 hex numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizationally_Unique_Identifier

Yes, it can be spoofed. Sometimes on purpose so you can control your internal network as needed.

The numbers are HEX, not random numeric and alpha. It is coincidence that the first three were all just numbers. The "alpha" characters will only be from "a" through "f". This makes for 16 different values. ( 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,a,b,c,d,e,f ) That is because computers think in binary. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 ... 16 (aka HEX) is the way a computer describes a full byte binary number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address

Lesson over. :alterhase


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

One more lesson. (Sorry, I wrote white papers on this many years ago!)

The MAC address must be unique within a single router. The router will translate that MAC address to an IP address for routing to the rest of the world. The routers keep tables that tell them what direction to send traffic to find the home of a given IP. Then once a router recognizes an IP as one that has a MAC address on it's own network, the router stops routing that traffic and sends it locally only. 

Although you COULD have more than one machine with the same MAC address, it would not be a good thing if two routers tried to send traffic to each other and both thought a MAC address belonged in their own local network. A rare event indeed, but preventable by making sure every network device has an always unique number called a MAC address.

Spoofing and wireless is the next lesson. Or NOT! :nono2:


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jkane said:


> The numbers are HEX, not random numeric and alpha. It is coincidence that the first three were all just numbers. The "alpha" characters will only be from "a" through "f". This makes for 16 different values. ( 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,a,b,c,d,e,f ) That is because computers think in binary. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 ... 16 (aka HEX) is the way a computer describes a full byte binary number.


Just a minor thing about numbers...

Hexadecimal (HEX) is not the same as binary. Binary is a base-2 system, hexadecimal is a base-16 system. We use a base-10 number system in everyday life.

The computer works with binary (0s and 1s)... though if we were to be technically accurate, the computer really doesn't work with binary either, but rather comparing relative voltage levels meant to represent 0s and 1s... but I digress.

Hexadecimal happen to be a nice companion to binary, when working with computers, because it is an even multiple of 2. Since we define 8 bits to a traditional byte, 16-bits to a word (yes, newer 32-bit and 64-bit computers have different definitions for bytes but again I digress)... hexadecimal becomes a nice notation, and it is very easy to convert between binary and hexadecimal number systems.


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## jkane (Oct 12, 2007)

Sorry! I tend to assume that people already know things that swim around in my head. The numbers I listed 1,2,4,8,16,32 were supposed to show how 16 was used in a binary system rather than 10 and lead to understand why there are 5 "letters" available in the HEX numbering scheme. This is why I am not in the teaching profession!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

That's ok... I figured you probably knew that... but thought I'd post the additional info in case someone new wandered in without the knowledge and was confused.


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