# Adding HR-34 to Complex Setup - Assistance Needed



## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

I currently have several (ok, 12) HR20-100s, HR20-700s, and HR24s around the house all connected to whole home over ethernet. The four feeds from the current dish go to a 16 port multiswitch in the attic (no SWM yet). From there, four lines go to the multiswitch in the home theater which feeds 6 receivers, four lines go to the multiswitch in the master BR which feeds 3 receivers, and the remainder go around the house to other rooms. I am getting an HR34 installed next week and obviously move to SWM. So, I want to confirm what I need for the HR20s to work.

I believe I will need a 16 port switch in the attic again and an 8 port in the home theater. The four existing lines to the MBR can feed the 3 HR20s in there without a switch with SWM.

So for each HR20, what will I need to add and is there a difference between what the -100 and -700 needs?

Should I switch to DECA or stick with hardwire ethernet (been working fine - slight delay when starting or doing trick play on shows recorded on other units - does that exist with DECA as well)?

I think that answers what I need for now. I'm sure I will think of more as I continue to plan the upgrade. Thanks!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Might be worth reading up on this: http://forums.solidsignal.com/content.php/327-EXCLUSIVE-White-Paper-More-than-16-tuners-in-the-home


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

VOS, does the standard config for the 20-100s the BSF still apply in this type of config?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

My suggestion would be to go all SWM, and entirely DECA networking. However that is (as you already noted) a complex setup.

You could use a single SWM32 (not intended for home market, but could be used), but would need to tie the DECA portion of the four internal SWM8's together externally (through ethernet). Or you could use two SWM16's and tie them together via ethernet.

In either case, consolidate receivers that have the heaviest MRV use on a single SWM to minimize MRV traffic over ethernet.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> VOS, does the standard config for the 20-100s the BSF still apply in this type of config?


The HR20-100 will always require a DECA to be powered off the #2 SAT input, which will require a splitter, but the BSF has always been a variable from where the splitter is placed. If it's on the SWiM/dish side, the SAT #1 needs the BSF, but if the splitter is between the inputs and the DECA, then the BSF isn't needed as the DECA is doing the same function.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Might be worth reading up on this: http://forums.solidsignal.com/content.php/327-EXCLUSIVE-White-Paper-More-than-16-tuners-in-the-home


Wow. That was incredibly helpful. Thanks!!!

Looks easy enough. Here's what I plan on doing:

*Attic*
Four-way power-passing splitter for each line from dish.
Each splitter:

1 output to attic SWiM 8
1 output to Home Theater SWiM 8
1 output to MBR WB68
1 output terminated

SWiM 8 - feed various DVRs around house and one CCK

*MBR*
No change (keep WB68 and ethernet)
OR
Three outputs of attic SWiM8 go to MBR DVRs

Thoughts?

*Home Theater*
SWiM8

1 HR20-100
2 HR20-700s
2 HR24s
1 HR34
1 CCK to home network

Am I missing something?

The task will be getting in touch with the installer before he shows up to ensure he has the necessary equipment on the truck.

Thanks!

EDIT:

Now that I add it up, if I have six lines coming to the Home Theater (I think I have two extra), I could just put a SWiM 16 with CCK in the attic and run each DVR directly off of that and be done with it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I'd run all swim now. AS time progresses and you switch out receivers over time, the newer receivers will all be swim with deca built in like the hr24 and hr34, so in the long run, just doing the switch now and getting it over with is easier, since your doing a big upgrade, rather than doing it half way. With as many wires as it sounds like you have running in your home, I would imagine you could easily put two swim16's in the attic and run with it. Plus then you only need to split the dish signal to two swim16s, instead of four as you are purposing now. It actually would likely be less complicated over the long run to do that anyway as well.. And likely easier to trouble shoot if you don't have half the stuff on wb68s and half on swim and so on...

Also, I am a bit confused by some of your numbers of receivers and different places and how your wiring them up. (you make it look like you plan on running 15 tuners off of one swim8 the way its listed in your post, and that's not doable at all) Can you simply name the receivers and their locations one at a time? Also might mention how many wires you have running to each room, and where they currently go to/come from. Might be easier to understand and therefore easier to give you a better idea of what you can do.

Here's one example of what you might want to do. If I am reading your stuff close to correct. From a swim 16 in the attic, you run two lines to the home theater room. Then in the home theater room you would use a two way spliter and send signal to a hr34 and one hr20. Then the other line I'd use a four way spliter to hook up the remaining four dvrs. Simple, clean and efficient.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"veryoldschool" said:


> The HR20-100 will always require a DECA to be powered off the #2 SAT input, which will require a splitter, but the BSF has always been a variable from where the splitter is placed. If it's on the SWiM/dish side, the SAT #1 needs the BSF, but if the splitter is between the inputs and the DECA, then the BSF isn't needed as the DECA is doing the same function.


I thought while both worked, the model with the BSF was the one officially supported by DirecTV.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> *Home Theater*
> SWiM8
> 
> 1 HR20-100
> ...


Um, you have 15 tuners on this SWiM8. That's not gonna work.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

LameLefty said:


> Um, you have 15 tuners on this SWiM8. That's not gonna work.


Oops. I'm still stuck on non-SWM math counting outputs not tuners.  :bang

OK - let's try this again with the new math. 

*Dish Outputs*
Four-way power-passing splitter for each line from dish.
Each splitter:

1 output to attic SWiM 16 
1 output to Home Theater SWiM16 
1 output to MBR SWiM8 
1 output terminated

*Attic*
SWiM 16 - total 9/16 tuners used

4 HR20-700s in various rooms - 8 tuners
1 CCK - 1 tuner

*MBR*
SWiM8 - total 7/8 tuners used

HR20-100 - 2 tuners
HR20-700 - 2 tuners
HR21-700 - 2 tuners
CCK - 1 tuner

*Home Theater*
SWiM16 - total 16/16 tuners used

1 HR20-100 - 2 tuners
2 HR20-700s - 4 tuners
2 HR24s - 4 tuners
1 HR34 - 5 tuners
1 CCK to home network - 1 tuner


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Oops. I'm still stuck on non-SWM math counting outputs not tuners.  :bang
> 
> OK - let's try this again with the new math.
> 
> ...


That's better - and it will work - but the CCK's don't use a tuner. They are simply a bridge from the coax network to ethernet. So in that case, your first SWiM can be an 8 rather than a 16.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

LameLefty said:


> That's better - and it will work - but the CCK's don't use a tuner. They are simply a bridge from the coax network to ethernet. So in that case, your first SWiM can be an 8 rather than a 16.


Great. Thanks!

Just to confirm, even though the CCK uses a port on the SWM splitter, it doesn't count as a tuner? Makes sense now that I think about it, but just want to be sure. And I now see that I can use the HR34 as the CCK for the Home Theater SWM16.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Just to confirm, even though the CCK uses a port on the SWM splitter, it doesn't count as a tuner? Makes sense now that I think about it, but just want to be sure. And I now see that I can use the HR34 as the CCK for the Home Theater SWM16.


Correct. The CCK just needs to be on the coax network somewhere to bridge it to ethernet at a switch or router. And yes, the HR34 will also act as a bridge to your wider LAN through its ethernet port - unlike an HR24, the 34 can use both coax networking (DECA) and ethernet simultaneously. I am running that way and have been for months without a problem.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Great. Thanks!
> 
> Just to confirm, even though the CCK uses a port on the SWM splitter, it doesn't count as a tuner? Makes sense now that I think about it, but just want to be sure. And I now see that I can use the HR34 as the CCK for the Home Theater SWM16.


You might want to look here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005

You may be able to do this with 4 SWM8 and get all of them on the same DECA/coax network.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I thought while both worked, the model with the BSF was the one officially supported by DirecTV.


It may be but has always been one of the stupidest changes I've seen.
Both configurations work the same. 
There is no difference other than one needs a BSF and the other doesn't.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Oops. I'm still stuck on non-SWM math counting outputs not tuners.  :bang
> 
> OK - let's try this again with the new math.
> 
> ...


There's a lot to look at, but this looks like it's worth looking into further.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Thanks, VOS. 

2 questions:

1: What's the advantage of 2 SWM8s in the HT instead of a 16?
2: From what I can tell, the advantage to using the diplexer setup to bridge the SWMs instead of allowing them to be bridged through my home network is that the traffic is kept off of the home network. Is that accurate? 

Thanks again.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Thanks, VOS.
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> ...



might be cost and that if one fails, the other hasn't. Another thing is my SWM8 never got as warm as my SWiM-16, which borders on HOT.
The traffic is one and the other is you can run network status testing where the whole network is tested.
I've been a fan of DECA from the early days, so when I can combine everything into one network, it makes troubleshooting easier, as I can use the receiver tests in the H/HR24 [and up] and "see" how everything is running.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

OK. Thanks. Cost isn't an issue as D* is doing this upgrade as part of the HR34 install which requires the SWM "upgrade."


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> OK. Thanks. Cost isn't an issue as D* is doing this upgrade as part of the HR34 install which requires the SWM "upgrade."


You're going to be "way off the range" with this install and doubt any of my suggestions are going to be even known, let alone understood by them.

You might get 2 SWiM-16s and a couple of CCKs, but that would be the extent of it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

This would be it, with a CCK on each.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

HofstraJet said:


> OK. Thanks. Cost isn't an issue as D* is doing this upgrade as part of the HR34 install which requires the SWM "upgrade."


I honestly would look for an authorized DirecTV installer that has experience with these setups. At that point, it won't be free, but I think it would be beneficial in the long run. Your average tech that does the free installs likely doesn't have much experience with these configs.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

This is why I do these installs/upgrades myself and just basically get the hardware from D*. I currently have the dish feeds split to a WB16 in the Home Theater feeding the local DVRs and a WB16 in the attic feeding the individual BRs and a cascaded WB8 in the MBR. All of the cabling is done as this is not a new install (four cables to MBR, six to home theater, and each BR has two) - all the installer has to do is swap out each switch for a SWM. I have been lucky that recent D* techs have been tolerant of my explaining the setup and then working with me to get the job done right.

Now, I had a thought - is there a distance limit on how far the splitter that feeds the DVRs can be from the switch? Would 75'-100' be OK? If so, 2 SWM16s in the attic would be fine and then the lines currently used for the WB8/WB16 in the home theater/MBR can be used to feed the splitters which I will install locally in each location. Any combination of switches is fine - doesn't matter to me as long as it works and I don't have to pay (I pay D* enough already - wiring is done, so they shouldn't charge for anything extra as all they are doing is replacing existing hardware).

Thanks!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Now, I had a thought - is there a distance limit on how far the splitter that feeds the DVRs can be from the switch? Would 75'-100' be OK?
> Thanks!


That isn't going to be a problem.

After they're done, you might add the diplexers and combining "splitter" for this:










With 100' runs, I don't see a loss issue.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

That looks like a great idea, VOS, now that I have extra cable runs since I can leave the SWM switches in the attic and just have splitters locally. I will do that after the D* guy leaves as he won't have a clue about this part.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> That looks like a great idea, VOS, now that I have extra cable runs since I can leave the SWM switches in the attic and just have splitters locally. I will do that after the D* guy leaves as he won't have a clue about this part.


I would make sure they only use 4-way splitters, as you don't need to have larger ones.
You might see if they will leave a spare 4-way, and then you'd only need the NAS 9501M diplexers. These are currently the only ones tested in this configuration, so it's worth the $6/ea. for them.

I just ran the numbers for every coax run being 100' and see almost 10 dB of headroom, so there shouldn't be a problem.

If or when you do this, it would be nice to get your feedback here:http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> I would make sure they only use 4-way splitters, as you don't need to have larger ones.
> You might see if they will leave a spare 4-way, and then you'd only need the NAS 9501M diplexers. These are currently the only ones tested in this configuration, so it's worth the $6/ea. for them.
> 
> I just ran the numbers for every coax run being 100' and see almost 10 dB of headroom, so there shouldn't be a problem.
> ...


Can't he go with one of the splitters being a 2 way for the one running the HR34 and still use the duplexes like you suggest?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Can't he go with one of the splitters being a 2 way for the one running the HR34 and still use the duplexes like you suggest?


If only two coax need to be connected, then sure a 2-way can be used.
The "main point" is to stay away from the 8-ways, as they have more loss and limit the coax lengths by at least 3 dB, and this doubles to 6 dB for the paths that would run through two.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The "main point" is to stay away from the 8-ways, as they have more loss and limit the coax lengths by at least 3 dB, and this doubles to 6 dB for the paths that would run through two.


And tell folks who don't "speak log" why a 3 or 6 dB loss is significant, please. 

(I already know the answer but a lot of folks may wonder why to worry about such "small" numbers).


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

LameLefty said:


> And tell folks who don't "speak log" why a 3 or 6 dB loss is significant, please.


Very helpful stuff, guys. Thanks a bunch! Will report back Saturday.

"Speak log." That's priceless.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> And tell folks who don't "speak log" why a 3 or 6 dB loss is significant, please.
> 
> (I already know the answer but a lot of folks may wonder why to worry about such "small" numbers).


The "easy answer is" the power drops to 50%, or 25%.

What may mean more, in this case, is that the maximum end to end [between SWiMs] length of the coax, drops by 60' or 120'.

The cloud loss calculator here should help: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> The "easy answer is" the power drops to 50%, or 25%.
> 
> What may mean more, in this case, is that the maximum end to end [between SWiMs] length of the coax, drops by 60' or 120'.
> 
> The cloud loss calculator here should help: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005


Vos here is another question I have offend wondered. In a situation like his, where he will put his swim 16 in the attic and then could run two wires to the closet ~100ft away and put the splitters there to feed the receivers only a couple feet from the splitter, would that be better than putting the splitters in the attic and then having the long runs come after the splitters?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Vos here is another question I have offend wondered. In a situation like his, where he will put his swim 16 in the attic and then could run two wires to the closet ~100ft away and put the splitters there to feed the receivers only a couple feet from the splitter, would that be better than putting the splitters in the attic and then having the long runs come after the splitters?


Sure, it would use more copper. :lol:
"Loss wise" there's zero difference.

Loss: coax x dB + splitter x dB = splitter x dB + coax x dB


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Vos here is another question I have offend wondered. In a situation like his, where he will put his swim 16 in the attic and then could run two wires to the closet ~100ft away and put the splitters there to feed the receivers only a couple feet from the splitter, would that be better than putting the splitters in the attic and then having the long runs come after the splitters?


Interesting question. However, if that's the case, I would install the SWM local to the home theater. The data chase is full and I can't pull any additional coax in there easily so I am going to have to find a solution to use the existing coax, whether that means sending the splitter signal over the existing runs or the lines to the SWM.

EDIT: Just saw VOS's response - glad to hear there is no difference.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You can always count on veryoldschool for the best information. All I can add is, make sure you are using the right "green label" splitters and the NAS STD-9501M diplexers. Other splitters and diplexers won't give you the right isolation or combination.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> Sure, it would use more copper. :lol:
> "Loss wise" there's zero difference.
> 
> Loss: coax x dB + splitter x dB = splitter x dB + coax x dB


That's what I wanted to know, if there was any difference loss wise. Good to know its the same, means more options that will have the same effect.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> That's what I wanted to know, if there was any difference loss wise.


If there was, believe me, I would have posted it years ago. :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Interesting question. However, if that's the case, I would install the SWM local to the home theater. The data chase is full and I can't pull any additional coax in there easily so I am going to have to find a solution to use the existing coax, whether that means sending the splitter signal over the existing runs or the lines to the SWM.
> 
> EDIT: Just saw VOS's response - glad to hear there is no difference.


You'll have "extra" coax not used to the theater room, right?
The CCK is best connected where the layout shows, so if it needs to be in the theater room, it would be good to use one of these "spare" coax to feed it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> All I can add is, make sure you are using the right "green label" splitters and the NAS STD-9501M diplexers. Other splitters and diplexers won't give you the right isolation or combination.


Maybe I should put a nail/spike in this because all the testing has been done with these two items and "I will almost guarantee" if you don't use these, it won't work!!!

The wrong splitter will have too much loss and the wrong diplexer will have the SWiM sections interact in not so nicely ways!!!!


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> You'll have "extra" coax not used to the theater room, right?
> The CCK is best connected where the layout shows, so if it needs to be in the theater room, it would be good to use one of these "spare" coax to feed it.


Thankfully this is not an issue because in my garage, above which the SWMs will live in the attic, I have a wireless access point which is hardwired to the network and has a 4 port switch on it that I can use to connect the CCK.

I am going to wait on ordering the diplexers until I see which arrangement I end up with on Saturday. I just hope I get an installer who will listen!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Thankfully this is not an issue because in my garage, above which the SWMs will live in the attic, I have a wireless access point which is hardwired to the network and has a 4 port switch on it that I can use to connect the CCK.
> 
> I am going to wait on ordering the diplexers until I see which arrangement I end up with on Saturday. I just hope I get an installer who will listen!


That makes sense, and you've got the basics.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Installer is here and he is completely perplexed. This is going to be a long day....


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Installer is here and he is completely perplexed. This is going to be a long day....


Might want to show him the "approved" install, in post #21.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Thanks, VOS. Good idea!

Installer wants to put a 6x8 from the dish before the SWM16s in the attic to tie the whole home together. Would that work instead of the diplexers?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Thanks, VOS. Good idea!
> 
> Installer wants to put a 6x8 from the dish before the SWM16s in the attic to tie the whole home together. Would that work instead of the diplexers?


First, those aren't diplexers but power passing splitters.
The WB68 shouldn't be used in place of the correct splitters.
While it will work, since it's a switch, it can fail, where splitters don't.

The diagram is approved by DirecTV, aka that's the way they want this job done.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

He doesn't seem interested in the approved method with splitters. It is easy enough for me to fix when he leaves. When I was talking about diplexers, I meant for the CCK connection to be diplexed in before the SWM splitters. Without those diplexers, is there any other way to tie the two SWM16s together aside from the 6x8 he is using?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> He doesn't seem interested in the approved method with splitters. It is easy enough for me to fix when he leaves. When I was talking about diplexers, I meant for the CCK connection to be diplexed in before the SWM splitters. Without those diplexers, is there any other way to tie the two SWM16s together aside from the 6x8 he is using?


Sounds like it's time to simply "let him do his thing", and hope he gets it to work.

"Then" you can sort it out after he leaves.

If he must use the WB68, so be it and get the two SWiM-16s installed.
Try to have him NOT USE 8-way splitters, but at this point, screw it and just get him to do what he's going to.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Without those diplexers, is there any other way to tie the two SWM16s together aside from the 6x8 he is using?


He needs to install a CCK on each SWiM-16 and connect them to your router/network.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Thanks. My sentiments exactly. He is installing two SWM16s in the attic and only using 4 ways, so I can fix the rest. Thanks for the speedy responses and assistance.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Thanks. My sentiments exactly. He is installing two SWM16s in the attic and only using 4 ways, so I can fix the rest. Thanks for the speedy responses and assistance.


See if he'll leave a spare 4-way for you.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Installer: "there is no way to have the receivers on one SWM16 see the receivers on the other SWM for whole-home, but I can't understand why the internet isn't working on some of the receivers but not the others."

Me (trying to be as polite as possible): "You need a second CCK on the other SWM16 because if it can't see the other receivers, it won't see the internet that is connected to that SWM"

Installer: "No, one CCK per house is all you need. Even though the MRV won't work, the internet will spread across the house."

Ugh!!!!!!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Installer: "there is no way to have the receivers on one SWM16 see the receivers on the other SWM for whole-home, but I can't understand why the internet isn't working on some of the receivers but not the others."
> 
> Me (trying to be as polite as possible): "You need a second CCK on the other SWM16 because if it can't see the other receivers, it won't see the internet that is connected to that SWM"
> 
> ...


So where do you stand now?

"We" should have known this would happen as your setup is way over the top for most installers.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"HofstraJet" said:


> Installer: "there is no way to have the receivers on one SWM16 see the receivers on the other SWM for whole-home, but I can't understand why the internet isn't working on some of the receivers but not the others."
> 
> Me (trying to be as polite as possible): "You need a second CCK on the other SWM16 because if it can't see the other receivers, it won't see the internet that is connected to that SWM"
> 
> ...


Put the DIRECTV Wired Broadband Internet Connection Kit on the swim that doesn't have the HR34 and then plug the HR34 into your home network directly. That would have gotten rid of him... He also would have gone nuts in trying to understand why all the receivers could see each other.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Sorry for the late update, but it has been a while cleaning up after the installer left and fell asleep I was so tired. He arrived 9:45 AM, left at 5:30 PM. There were good parts and bad parts, but unfortunately more bad parts, most of which I found after he left.

*The Good*

The installer was very professional, went through what he was going to do, and ultimately did what I needed him to. When we were first discussing what to do, I explained how I wanted it set up and showed him the images in this thread. He had a puzzled look and said that is not how it is done. He had his way and that was the way he was doing it. I said "OK, do what you have to and I will just fix it after you leave." He then said he wouldn't do any work if I was going to modify it after he left. I wryly smiled and sarcastically said while laughing "I never said I was going to modify anything. Did you hear me say I was going to modify anything?" He didn't get the joke and was all serious and said "But you just said...." and I responded that I would trust his judgment to do it right. :sure: He also refused to connect more than 10 DVRs for MRV. Said it wouldn't work so he couldn't justify setting up a DECA for anything above 10. :nono: I knew I was in for a long day.

Here is a picture of the SWM installation in the attic (those boards used to hold my old Spaun cascading setup - (OT, but what a waste of money considering how short-lived it was).










Large Image

The prior WB16 I had in the attic was just left on the floor by the prior installer and you will soon see what ended up happening because of that. So, as you can see in the picture, he used the 6x8 to split the dish feeds to the two SWM16s instead of using the splitters that were already there splitting the signal to the two WB16s. It looks very nice and I am very happy with the way he mounted and ran the cables (he used all of my existing cables from the Spaun setup and used black quad-shielded RG6 for one switch and white regular RG6 for the other). But after making that look so nice, he then just left the power inserters sitting on the attic floor on the insulation. Can't explain why since he seemed pretty meticulous in the rest of the SWiM mounting. The mysteries of life..... 

When he installed the HR34, I had a set of cables (analog audio, optical audio, coax, and HDMI) from the last DVR that was there and asked him to use those. He said he just connects HDMI. Uhh, Ok then.... 

And, he insisted that he had to remove all of the OTA cables connected to the boxes since they are incompatible with SWiM as they work on the same frequency. I explained that as long as they are not diplexed, which they are not, it would work fine and OTA has nothing to do with SWiM. He refused to listen and just unscrewed all of my OTA cables from the boxes. He was then seemingly perplexed as to how to get the CCK connected and I don't know why. I explained that I have an access point in the garage less than 20 feet away from the SWMs which he could plug into. He insisted that the CCK must be connected DIRECTLY to the modem or it will not work. We went back and forth on networking, etc. but he insisted it wouldn't work any other way. So, he installed it in the office where the modem is. He then stated that the QuickPorts I use in the wallplates to terminate the coax in each room would not pass the necessary signals. I said "why don't we try first" but he said that his training had taught him to replace all barrel connectors ("MRV DECA works on 3 GHz and the old barrels don't allow the signal to pass" "But they are rated for 3 GHz and I don't think the frequency is that high anyway" "No, the barrel color is wrong. Are you familiar with MOCA? It is a very complex system." I just rolled my eyes and gave in). So he had to make the switch meaning he had to get behind all of the furniture to remove each wallplate and put his barrel connectors on (he left the wallplates half-open (top screw only) with the wire coming out of the bottom of the box) and shoved the furniture back in front of it). This was a major time-waster.

So, now we have the SWM16s installed in the attic and the lines in each room ready for install. As the majority of my boxes are HR20s, the tech had to, in his words, "make a rig" for them (i.e., install a DECA) which he was none too pleased about. I volunteered to get behind each unit and install them but he said it was complicated and that he had to do it himself. He installed the DECAs and then ran through the setup on each box, completely confused as to why the internet wasn't connecting on the boxes on the non-CCK'd SWiM16. I told him he needed a second CCK and he said "no, just one per house." After some back and forth, he reluctantly plugged one in and waited all of 30 seconds and said "it's not getting a network signal." I noted that the first CCK took a few minutes to go all green and he said it should be near instantaneous. He unplugged the CCK and we went back and forth discussing and I said "just plug the HR34 into the switch and it will work as it has a CCK built-in." He said "it won't, but I will try anyway." He tried and it worked and he said "well that's not what we were taught. You should see the internet but not get On Demand" I asked what the difference was and he mumbled something unintelligible. He advised that I wouldn't be able to see all of the DVRs everywhere and sometimes DVRs will randomly disappear from the network - "that's just the way it is."

Overall, I think he meant well, but was a little undertrained. So anyway, he finished up, everything worked (or so I thought), and he left as I told him I would finish cleaning up the boxes and moving the last of the furniture back. That's when the fun really began.

*The Bad and the Ugly*

So I start cleaning up and found several very disturbing facts. First, instead of finding the existing cables that went to each DVR in the MBR and home theater that had a local multiswitch, he just ran new cables from the splitter to each box. In doing so, he just unscrewed the existing BBC and unplugged the ethernet cable and left them right next to the box - didn't bother pulling out the cables or removing the BBCs. So instead of having one cable per DVR back there, there were three - two from the legacy switch and one for the SwiM. Made for a huge excess of unnecessary cables. Also, to make room for the DECAs, he just pushed other cables aside either not realizing or not caring that he was disconnecting other cables (audio mostly which I realized when checking each receiver - when I checked when he was here, we just checked video assuming no changes to anything else audio should work fine as well). So, not only did I have to pull out all of the old cables and BBCs, I had to trace and reconnect multiple disconnected cables. Also, each room with more than one DVR has a 4 port splitter with no terminators. When I went into the attic to disconnect the 6x8 and reinstall splitters, I found more interesting stuff. Previously, all of the lines in the attic were connected to the WB16. I asked him to leave whatever wasn't connected to the SWiM connected to the WB16 so I don't have a bunch of loose wires up there as there are numerous unconnected cables that I wanted to keep separate as they are for rooms with no TV. Here's what I got instead:










(that's my power screwdriver and you can see the power inserters on the floor as well as some of the old Spaun splitters).

Large Image

I mounted the power inserters properly and made sure none of the wires touch the SWiM multiswitches as they were pretty hot. I then found that when plugging in the power inserters in the attic, he just unplugged power to the OTA amplifier for no apparent reason - there was plenty of cable and room on the power strip. He also used a bunch of barrel connectors in the attic and I'm not sure why since it seems he could have plugged some of those right into the SWiM16- will have to investigate that further tomorrow but it seems like instead of installing a splitter in the attic, he used several existing cables to send back a line from a room with a 4-way to send to another room. Seems like a lot of excess cable length (but he didn't run them, so that wasn't an issue for him). Not sure what he gained aside from using one or two less splitters (though some of the 4 ways could have been 2 ways or had no splitter at all). So, all in all, I wasted a bunch of time with the tech but got what I needed in the end. I can easily fix what is wrong.

Now, here are my questions:

1) Is that stuff about the barrel connectors accurate? I thought MOCA operated at much lower frequency.

2) How much signal will I gain with an amplifier/polarity locker as illustrated in the Solid Signal white papers? I live in S Florida and rain fade is an occasional issue even with mid-high 90s on my signal strength. Will the numbers go up or will it just be a better quality signal at the same strength that is more resistant to rain fade?

3) Theoretically, if I have the HR34 on one SWiM16 connected to my ethernet network and a CCK on the other SWiM16, shouldn't I see all of the DVRs in the house everywhere? I previosuly had MRV using ethernet only and it worked fine. I plan on going the diplexer route, but I would think this would work just as well. The list of networked DVRs in the setup screens only show a few, but the playlist looks like all oft them are there - is there a known issue with that list not being complete? I vaguely recall reading something about that during a CE release.

4) Are the SwiM16s suitable for installation in a hot attic in S Florida? They were really hot when I touched them - not sure if the WB16 was ever that hot. Not that it matters since D* will replace, but I don't want to be bothered if it will be frequently - maybe smaller switches run cooler?

Thanks everyone, especially VOS, for all of your assistance. :righton: I don't spend nearly as much time on here or doing CEs as I used to, but I always appreciate that everyone is so willing to help when assistance is needed.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Put the DIRECTV Wired Broadband Internet Connection Kit on the swim that doesn't have the HR34 and then plug the HR34 into your home network directly. That would have gotten rid of him... He also would have gone nuts in trying to understand why all the receivers could see each other.


Very prescient of you since that is exactly what ended up happening. :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

There isn't a signal above 2 GHz, and MoCa/DECA is in the 550 MHz range.
The whole barrel thing is merely a QA follow up inspection thing. They walk through, see the right color [which doesn't change the frequency BTW] and move on.
A locker merely adds/boosts the voltage to the LNB, which isn't needed unless the lines are long. Zero impact on rainfade. For that matter an amp won't have any effect either unless the coax between the dish and the SWiMs is [again] very long.

Yes the HR34 is the only receiver that can also bridge the DECA network to your router, like a CCK does.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> 3) Theoretically, if I have the HR34 on one SWiM16 connected to my ethernet network and a CCK on the other SWiM16, shouldn't I see all of the DVRs in the house everywhere? I previosuly had MRV using ethernet only and it worked fine.


I suspect this is related to the installer's comment about MRV not working with more than 10 DVRs.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I suspect this is related to the installer's comment about MRV not working with more than 10 DVRs.


A "10 DVR limit?" 

Has their been a change to the DECA network's capability or something?

I thought the installer was just misinformed?

Isn't a DECA node a DECA node whether its a STB receiver or HD-DVR, and they both appear as a single node point in the cloud and will work in any combination up to a limit of 16?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Various Combinations applicable to a maxed out install w/SWM 16 (off the top of my head):



*CCK*
|
*H2x*
|
*Hx2x*
|
*HR34*
|
*Tuners*
|
*Network Nodes*

0|16|0|0|16|16
1|15|0|0|15|16
1|14|1|0|16|16
1|13|1|0|15|15
1|12|2|0|16|15
1|11|2|0|15|14
1|11|0|1|16|13
1|10|3|0|16|14
1|10|0|1|15|12
1|9|3|0|15|13
1|9|1|1|16|12
1|8|4|0|16|13
1|7|4|0|15|12
1|6|5|0|16|12
1|5|5|0|15|11
1|4|6|0|16|11
1|3|6|0|15|10
1|3|4|1|16|9
1|2|7|0|16|10
1|1|7|0|15|9
1|0|8|0|16|9

The highest number of DVRs in that configuration is 8.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

First a setup like this is pushing the limits of a few things, that weren't high on DirecTV's priority list.

The DECA node limit is 16, and a 5 tuner DVR is still only one node.

Each SWiM section has a 8 tuner limit.

The software does seem to have not been optimized for MRV with DVRs over 10. Playlists do seem to get shared, but under the whole home menu, not all show up.

The combined [diplexed] DECA networking has been tested to work, but has yet to be tested/tried with 10+ DVRs.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Humm ... never knew about these various limitations on DECA nodes below 16 depending on the specific receiver combination.

Thanks for the list, and that's a pretty good memory to recall a list like that "off the top of your head."


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

I just noticed that the HR34 remote provided is a RC65X as I tried to switch the remote to RF but was unsuccessful. The outside of the box says that an RC65RX RF remote is optional. Was the RX in the box or would that be something I should call DirecTV for? Would love to use RF on this box.

Thanks!


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> The combined [diplexed] DECA networking has been tested to work, but has yet to be tested/tried with 10+ DVRs.


Consider me the test case.  Once I get the diplexers set up, I will record one show on each DVR simultaneously and then go around to each DVR and see how many of the others I can see. Will report back on this issue next weekend once I have the setup complete.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Consider me the test case.  Once I get the diplexers set up, I will record one show on each DVR simultaneously and then go around to each DVR and see how many of the others I can see. Will report back on this issue next weekend once I have the setup complete.


I'd love to know your results.
Playlists are one thing.
The number of DVRs listed under "whole home status" is another.
"And then" how well they all stay on the network is another.
Some that have this many, using 2 CCKs to bridge two SWiM-16s have had some issues with them staying as part of the MRV group. This might be due to the router bridging but it might be something else.

[again] This thread would be a great place to post about it: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> I'd love to know your results.
> Playlists are one thing.
> The number of DVRs listed under "whole home status" is another.
> "And then" how well they all stay on the network is another.
> ...


I know the screen is limited to only showing five other DVRs no matter what. I think they just didn't build it to scroll so you could see more. But that's just my guess...


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## DBSNewbie (Nov 3, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> A "10 DVR limit?"
> 
> Has their been a change to the DECA network's capability or something?
> 
> ...


I just wanted to chime in about the "10 DVR Limit"

Although it seems a bit misleading (implying that more than 10 DVRs cannot be hooked up to a Whole-Home system) there is a "limit" in the number of severs (DVRs) that can be accessed by a client (DVR or Receiver) at any given time.

For example, I have 11 HRs in my system plus two more Whole-Home compatible receivers (H24 & H25) and when accessing the Universal Playlist, only the programs from 10 (random) DVR drives can be seen at a time. Reseting the "unseen" DVR results in having another DVR (at random) being bumped off the Playlist.

I had discussed this issue with another member here (who has 12 HRs in his system) and he too can only access 10 DVR hard drives at a time on any given Playlist from any client.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Parts ordered from Solid Signal. Should arrive this week and I will install over the weekend and report my findings. For now, MRV appears to be working fine across all DVRs with one CCK on one SWM16 and the HR34 plugged into my local ethernet network. Haven't confirmed if all are present everywhere, but I can definitely see across SWM16s.

Next issue: I have intermittent signal loss/pixelization on channels on the 103 odd satellite (242, 249, 535, etc. - http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa103.html ). Occurs on DVRs on both SWM16s. I had this problem a few months ago and, after several truck rolls and a supervisor visit, the problem was determined to be a slight cut in the cables coming from the dish (it was a pole mount and the cables ran down the *inside* of the pole and the pole was sitting on the cables). Not sure if I bought that final explanation since the cables have been there since 2001, but anyway the problem is back now. Not sure if this has anything to do with the new SWM16s, but it appeared after the installation and the tech was trying to peak the dish as he couldn't get past the install verification due to 103 odd failing. Currently, 103(ca) shows all mid-90s signal strength but I get the pixelization. Rerunning sat setup sometimes shows failure on 103 odd, however, but at the moment it doesn't and I am getting pixelization.

Before I call D* to get this fixed, I wanted to get the group's thoughts on troubleshooting I can do before they get involved, if any. I called the tech back as a courtesy and he gave me some garbage about how if he has to replace the LNB it will cost me money because it was working when he left. I explained it was intermittent and he said it was the weather. Yeah - I know rain fade and this isn't it. Sounds like he is trying to make a quick buck on the side.

Thanks!


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Various Combinations applicable to a maxed out install w/SWM 16 (off the top of my head):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There would be a whole lot of nothing going on there.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"This tech" owns this job for 30 days.
If he didn't do the job to completion, then he needs to come back out and fix it!

Looks like you'd better hold off making any changes until it passes the IV test "all the time".


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> "This tech" owns this job for 30 days.
> If he didn't do the job to completion, then he needs to come back out and fix it!
> 
> Looks like you'd better hold off making any changes until it passes the IV test "all the time".


Thanks, VOS. That's kind of my problem - it is an intermittent issue so it may very well pass when the tech is here making it impossible for him to troubleshoot. Also, earlier today, I had mid-90s on all 103(ca) transponders but I was getting the pixelization. Rerunning sat setup allowed me through without any red x's, but the pixelization was there.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Thanks, VOS. That's kind of my problem - it is an intermittent issue so it may very well pass when the tech is here making it impossible for him to troubleshoot. Also, earlier today, I had mid-90s on all 103(ca) transponders but I was getting the pixelization. Rerunning sat setup allowed me through without any red x's, but the pixelization was there.


So it might be time to see where the pixelation comes from.
Is it from the SAT and on more than one receiver?
Is it only one channel?
Is it from MRV, or local?
[steps like this to narrow down what/where]


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> So it might be time to see where the pixelation comes from.
> Is it from the SAT and on more than one receiver?
> Is it only one channel?
> Is it from MRV, or local?
> [steps like this to narrow down what/where]


As far as I can tell, it is on live TV on certain channels and on all DVRs when it occurs. If a show is recorded when it is occurring, obviously the playback will have the same issue, but that's not what we are worried about since the recording itself is bad. The only thing in common the channels have is they are all on 103 and 103 odd is the one that has the red X from time to time. So, for example, right now I am logged in to my Slingbox DVR and I see pixelization on 242. Checked 103 (ca) and (cb) and all signals are 90+ (103(s) has many 0s and otherwise very low numbers, but I believe those are all spot beams). Reran sat setup and got the red X on 103 odd. Same thing happened during install of the HR34 and tech just kept rerunning it and eventually it went through.

EDIT: One interesting note is that when the numbers come up for 103, you know how when the signal is zero or very low, it takes a second for the number to come up but when it is high it comes right up? Well on the 103s, the number comes up high but it takes a second. Not sure if this is noteworthy, but I thought I'd mention it. Also, rerunning signal strength on 103(ca) and (cb) shows an occasional zero but then running it again on the same tuner the number is restored to a 90+.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"HofstraJet" said:


> As far as I can tell, it is on live TV on certain channels and on all DVRs when it occurs. If a show is recorded when it is occurring, obviously the playback will have the same issue, but that's not what we are worried about since the recording itself is bad. The only thing in common the channels have is they are all on 103 and 103 odd is the one that has the red X from time to time. So, for example, right now I am logged in to my Slingbox DVR and I see pixelization on 242. Checked 103 (ca) and (cb) and all signals are 90+ (103(s) has many 0s and otherwise very low numbers, but I believe those are all spot beams). Reran sat setup and got the red X on 103 odd. Same thing happened during install of the HR34 and tech just kept rerunning it and eventually it went through.


Your still hooked up with the wb68 instead of splitters right? Other than the cable , that's the only hold over from before if I have read correctly. He needs to replace that with splitters like he is supposed to. Technically, if a qc person came and saw that, I don't think your install would pass because he didn't use splitters. Would it vos?

Also if it's on all units at the same time at least you know it's something from the wb68 to the dish.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Your still hooked up with the wb68 instead of splitters right? Other than the cable , that's the only hold over from before if I have read correctly. He needs to replace that with splitters like he is supposed to. Technically, if a qc person came bland saw that, I don't think your install would pass because he didn't use splitters. Would it vos?
> 
> Also if it's on all units at the same time at least you know it's something from the wb68 to the dish.


Actually as soon as the tech left I got rid of the 6x8 and put the splitters I previously had back in.  I previously had splitters split the dish cables to two WB16s, one in the attic and one in the home theater. Could be a splitter, but then again he had the same issue with the 6x8, so I am discounting that for the moment. That said, I ordered new splitters from SS as a precautionary measure since the cost was nominal and I will install those and see if anything changes.

My next planned step was to switch cables from the dish to the splitters and see if the problem moves. Each cable is locked onto something so if the problem moves, it should be a cabling issue between splitter and dish or a splitter issue.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

What model/type of splitters are these?
It does sort of sound like a cable to the dish.

The "s" SATs always take forever to populate.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"HofstraJet" said:


> Actually as soon as the tech left I got rid of the 6x8 and put the splitters I previously had back in.  I previously had splitters split the dish cables to two WB16s, one in the attic and one in the home theater. Could be a splitter, but then again he had the same issue with the 6x8, so I am discounting that for the moment. That said, I ordered new splitters from SS as a precautionary measure since the cost was nominal and I will install those and see if anything changes.
> 
> My next planned step was to switch cables from the dish to the splitters and see if the problem moves. Each cable is locked onto something so if the problem moves, it should be a cabling issue between splitter and dish or a splitter issue.


You could also try bypassing all splitters and just running one line from dish to box, one at a time and see if you find one cable causing the issue. Of course that requires resetting the box to see non swim and other such things.

By the way. Did you make sure the outputs from the splitters go to the same inputs on each swim right? I found I have all kinds of little issues if that's not he case, although I have no idea why.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> You could also try bypassing all splitters and just running one line from dish to box, one at a time and see if you find one cable causing the issue. Of course that requires resetting the box to see non swim and other such things.
> 
> By the way. Did you make sure the outputs from the splitters go to the same inputs on each swim right? I found I have all kinds of little issues if that's not he case, although I have no idea why.


 since the splitters are feeding two SWiM-16s, 

Yes the coax from the dish can be connected straight to a SWiM-16 for testing.
Then the 13 & 18 volt tone cables can be swapped to see if it tracks.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Splitters I believe are PerfectVision - prior installer used them when fixing the prior 103 issues. I will confirm when I get home, but I will be replacing them with the splitters referenced in the SolidSignal white paper when they arrive later this week.

Good idea inkahauts - I have four home runs from the attic to the home theater, so I can connect each dish line to one of them and then try all four on the other end and see what happens with each. That's a good way to narrow it down. :righton:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Splitters I believe are PerfectVision - prior installer used them when fixing the prior 103 issues. I will confirm when I get home, but I will be replacing them with the splitters referenced in the SolidSignal white paper when they arrive later this week.
> 
> Good idea inkahauts - I have four home runs from the attic to the home theater, so I can connect each dish line to one of them and then try all four on the other end and see what happens with each. That's a good way to narrow it down. :righton:


I don't think "home runs" will give the info you're looking for.
If both SWiM-16s are having this problem, then it is between the splitters and the dish.

Are the splitter "power passing" on both ports?


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

But I think what we are trying to determine there is if one of the cables from the dish is bad. If I connect each dish cable straight to a DVR with nothing else in between except the barrel connector and I only have the issue on one cable, wouldn't that be the culprit? If I see the issue on all cables, then we ruled out cables from the dish. Or am I missing something?

I will confirm power passing when I see the splitters tonight.

Thanks!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> But I think what we are trying to determine there is if one of the cables from the dish is bad. If I connect each dish cable straight to a DVR with nothing else in between except the barrel connector and I only have the issue on one cable, wouldn't that be the culprit? If I see the issue on all cables, then we ruled out cables from the dish. Or am I missing something?
> 
> I will confirm power passing when I see the splitters tonight.
> 
> Thanks!


I doubt it, because:
It sounds like you're chasing a marginal problem, as it passes "sometimes".
If you want to check the cable, swap the inputs at the splitter. It either won't change, or will.
Since you've now said you've had this before, "I tend to think" the LNB is marginal.
If you're chasing a marginal condition, changing to a home run drop more than likely will be too much of a change.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> since the splitters are feeding two SWiM-16s,
> 
> Yes the coax from the dish can be connected straight to a SWiM-16 for testing.
> Then the 13 & 18 volt tone cables can be swapped to see if it tracks.


I meant bypass everything, and run each line one at a time using only barrel connectors from the dish to a box with. Bbcs attached.

As for the splitters, I had issues if I took the cables from the splitters and sent one to say a 13 on one swim and the other cable coming out of the same splitter to an 18 on the other swim.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"veryoldschool" said:


> I doubt it, because:
> It sounds like you're chasing a marginal problem, as it passes "sometimes".
> If you want to check the cable, swap the inputs at the splitter. It either won't change, or will.
> Since you've now said you've had this before, "I tend to think" the LNB is marginal.
> If you're chasing a marginal condition, changing to a home run drop more than likely will be too much of a change.


Well now I see your point after I posted..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Well now I see your point after I posted..


"You know me", I can't keep all the "RF stuff" out of my head. :lol:


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Splitters are Perfect Vision PV23-302 2-2300 MHz splitters which pass power on both legs (see image below). I swapped odd and even 99/101 and swapped odd and even 103 and the problem moved from odd 103 to even 103.  I believe that is a good thing as now I can track it. Will have to investigate further as to whether it is the splitter or the cable from the dish (I am guessing splitter as the lines from the dish are not even a year old, but anything is possible). Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. :goodjob:










Large image


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Now I'm really perplexed. First, as listed above, I swapped the 101 odd/even and 103 odd/even. Problem moved to 103 even, but I didn't repeat on same or different DVRs multiple times.

Based on that result, I then swapped out the two 101 dish-to-splitter cables for the two 103 dish-to-splitter cables and pixelization remained (same splitter feeding each SWiM input, but a different cable from dish feeding the splitter). I didn't rerun IV test. I then swapped the four 101 splitters-to-SWiM16 cables with the four 103 splitters-to-SWiM16 cables (same cables feeding each SWiM input, but from a different splitter). Same red x issue back on 103 odd but pixelization is gone. However, as usual, sometimes simply hitting re-test on the IV test screen causes it to work the second time around. Guess I didn't really narrow it down.  It is hard to determine if what I did fixed the problem or if the intermittent problem just went away for a bit. Will have to wait and see if pixelization returns.

EDIT: Now I guess I should change the cables going into each SWiM16 port - so the two 101 input cables should go to the two 103 inputs (resulting in a different splitter, different cable from dish, and different cable to SWiM16).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Those splitters, indoors have an almost zero failure rate.
Since the problem was with 103, I would have staid with the "tone" cables, which are the 103s.
It still is sounding like a marginal LNB.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Thanks, VOS. That being the case, the issue becomes how do I get a stubborn installer back out to troubleshoot and fix an intermittent issue, especially when he seems sketchy by stating that if the LNB has to be changed it will cost me? Do I just bypass him and call D*.

I need to look for the supervisor's number - when he was last out to fix the 103 issue, he gave me his number.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

HofstraJet said:


> Thanks, VOS. That being the case, the issue becomes how do I get a stubborn installer back out to troubleshoot and fix an intermittent issue, especially when he seems sketchy by stating that if the LNB has to be changed it will cost me? Do I just bypass him and call D*.
> 
> I need to look for the supervisor's number - when he was last out to fix the 103 issue, he gave me his number.


If he has the AIM, it should be a simple IV check to verify if the LNB doesn't meet spec.
The order I'd go:


call the tech
call the supervisor
Call DirecTV
I would explain from the first call my intentions and whether he wants to resolve it or whether I need to call the next.

I wouldn't be paying for this either.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Update: called the tech back, he reconfirmed that I would be charged if he had to come out and change the LNB.

Called the supervisor - number out of service.

Called D*. Explained the situation. They apologized and said they would contact local office to get a tech out next day. D* specifically asked whether I wanted the same tech and I gave an emphatic "no." They said no problem. Local office called an hour later and scheduled me today from 12-4. Great. I reinstalled th 6x8 to avoid any questions about why the prior installers work isn't there in case he left notes about what he did.

Last night, I see an incoming call from the prior tech. I don't answer. Again, this morning at 8:30 he calls so I answer. He tells me he is coming to fix my dish today and starts asking why I called DirecTV and not him. He said that now there is a report that he didn't complete the job and I said that the job isn't complete if everything isn't working and it was before you arrived. He replied that I had the same problem a few months ago and I said yeah, but it was fixed and now you messed it up again. I explained that this kind of attitude is why I called D*, how offended I was that he claimed I would be charged, and he said "well, you have the protection plan so you won't be charged." I stated that is what I told him before but he didn't want any of it. He said he would come and replace the LNB, but if I continue to have problems, it is an internal wiring problem likely due to egress becuase SWM operates on a different frequency and I have so many feeds (best part is when he asked rather arrogantly "do you know what egress is?"). I rolled my eyes and said "yeah, whatever." He said he would be there in 20 minutes, at 9 AM. I said my appt was for 12-4 and he said not to worry since he wouldn't be coming into the house. I reluctantly said fine.

So much for D* not sending the same tech.

He called a short while thereafter and told me that he replaced the LNB and wires from the dish to the grounding block and left the old parts by my side door to verify he did the work (like he doesn't have old parts on his truck). He said if I have any more problems, there is nothing else he can do. 

Logged in to my slingplayer and all signals look fine, but as I mentioned problem is intermittent. Time will tell. 

Tonight, I will put the new splitters and diplexers in and report my findings.

Thanks everyone!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Forum filters stop me from typing what I think. :nono2: !rolling


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

To bring this thread full circle, albeit a few years later, installers were stubborn about using splitters so they installed a 6x8 multiswitch to feed the two SWM 16s. Worked fine for a couple years, and then something went bad in the switch causing me to lose many channels so I called them again. Same thing - they replaced the 6x8 and it worked fine for a while and then something failed and I lost a bunch of channels. This went on for a few years until I finally got fed up with them. Replaced the 6x8 with splitters as discussed above and has worked fine ever since.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Wow! Five years latter! Glad to hear it is working out for you now!


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