# Ever think some users here fake complaints ?



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I am not saying this to offend anyone here but does anyone else besides me think there are some people here with BS fake complaints ? Maybe not even having an R-15 either ?

I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Ever think some users may make fake compliments about the R-15?


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## tonyreo (Sep 1, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I am not saying this to offend anyone here but does anyone else besides me think there are some people here with BS fake complaints ? Maybe not even having an R-15 either ?
> 
> I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


The truth is out there!


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


Examples?


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## Larry Daughtrey (Feb 14, 2006)

Bobman, I should ship my box to you. That would remove ALL doubt!


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

Larry Daughtrey said:


> Bobman, I should ship my box to you. That would remove ALL doubt!


Same here, I wish I WAS lying about my problems!!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Larry Daughtrey said:


> Bobman, I should ship my box to you. That would remove ALL doubt!


And I should ship you my units, to show the volume of issues I am having...

I *do* think some of the problems posted are either exagerated (same with the postives), or are flat out lying.... there is no doubt.

But that is the problem... there is no way to tell unless you can recreate it on your end, have physicall access to that system, ect..... So we have to evaluate the merit of the poster, the problem, based on their typed word....

It's hard.... especially here where were anyone can signup (some people have signed up 40+ times saying they are not who they say there are...  )

Are there problems.... most definently.
Are they as sever as some people post... for them... yes, for other no....

Hence why there is the need for: It is happening here, It is not happening here follow up posts....

So I am off to another forum where I need to tell some Hot Rich 25 Hunk, that I am a sweet 18yrd girl... :eek2: (Just kidding, but you get the idea on how easy it is to "mask" the truth in typed internet world)


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And I should ship you my units, to show the volume of issues I am having...


Are talking about the HR20 or R15's? If it's the R15's I wasn't aware of any volume issues.



Earl Bonovich said:


> So I am off to another forum where I need to tell some Hot Rich 25 Hunk, that I am a sweet 18yrd girl... :eek2: (Just kidding, but you get the idea on how easy it is to "mask" the truth in typed internet world)


LOL


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So I am off to another forum where I need to tell some Hot Rich 25 Hunk, that I am a sweet 18yrd girl... :eek2: (Just kidding, but you get the idea on how easy it is to "mask" the truth in typed internet world)


it's funny cause it's true......

j/k


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Are talking about the HR20 or R15's? If it's the R15's I wasn't aware of any volume issues.


Sorry didn't mean it as Audio Volume, ment in quantity.... and as satire.. since I have very few issues with any of my DVR+ units.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I am not saying this to offend anyone here but does anyone else besides me think there are some people here with BS fake complaints ? Maybe not even having an R-15 either ?
> 
> I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


On a serious note:

While surely some people exaggerate or make up their issues, many have been reported by multiple users. I listed 50 or so issues in one opost which had been reported by at least two people. Few recent complaints vary form that list, so even that post is made up, the issues seem to exist amongst some

Part of the frustration here is that the issues are not always re-creatable. for some that brings into question the existence of the issue, for other it brings into question whether they will ever fix it.

Earl has often questioned when a issue will be with "my" R15 and not "the" R15. IMO that will be when we see actual fixes (not slight subjective improvements in speed or stability) and the same issues that have been reported for 10 months stop.

But, I really don't think that there can be much doubt as to whetehr serious issues have existed or that much improvement still needs to be made.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Sorry didn't mean it as Audio Volume, ment in quantity.... and as satire.. since I have very few issues with any of my DVR+ units.


:bang (there's no hand hitting head icon) Sorry I missed that, I get it now.



mikewolf13 said:


> But, I really don't think that there can be much doubt as to whetehr serious issues have existed or that much improvement still needs to be made.


No agruement there.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

walters said:


> Examples?


I dont want to use examples from here as that would only cause conflict.

One example I will give as it came from another board was one guy telling people the R-15 was a POS and stuff like that and said he knows as he used one back in February. Then he went on and on.

I mean ?????? Everyone knows how much better it has become since way back then.
That was how many updates ago and he was giving advice like he has 10 of them and using them every day.


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## DavidC (Sep 19, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I dont want to use examples from here as that would only cause conflict.
> 
> One example I will give as it came from another board was one guy telling people the R-15 was a POS and stuff like that and said he knows as he used one back in February. Then he went on and on.
> 
> ...


Well, I for one can say that I was using an R15 since early summer with no problems at all, no resets needed, no freeze-ups, no SL problems. Literally a dream unit.

But when the Aug 30 update rolled out, it threw my system into complete chaos (of course, this could be a coincidence, but that's not my point), and most, if not all, of the frequently reported and deeply frustrating problems appeared on my unit. I am now on the verge of wiping the HD after recording dozens of hours of programming to DVDR.

There is no question that some complaints are operator error, but these are usually resolved by a single reply on the forums. Also, some complaints are really just that - complaints, not errors - just features that don't work like some other box, or which people find disappointing or annoying.

Also, if someone says something like "my R15 flickered and then my entire home entertainment system burst into flame, and all my ceiling lights exploded. Damn them, damn their eyes!", I can still accept that it happened (licensed fire investigator - you'd be surprised what can burst into flame and why), but most likely  D* is not to blame.

But when you see a software "update", and then you see post after post after post of people's units that have gone completely haywire in _exactly the same way_, I think it's probably not some kind of massive anti D* conspiracy concocted by cable companies. More likely an _actual _problem with D* and their product.

And (just to make this a bit longer) the most frustrating thing of all, from a paying consumer standpoint, is to be handled by D* as if there was absolutely nothing wrong on their end, and they had never heard of these problems, and surely you must be high for even suggesting such a thing. It's one thing to be an idiot, but it's another thing altogether to lie to your paying customers this brazenly. It's one of the things that kills companies over time, because it is incredibly arrogant to think that you can routinely, repeatedly, provide a poor product and then act like it never happened (unless you are Microsoft - then you can do it all you want). It's exactly why so many people in cable-provided areas switched to satellite in the first place. 1) Bad product. 2) Arrogant, dishonest, incompetant, or patronizing customer service. A recipe for success!


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## BethMD (Aug 2, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I am not saying this to offend anyone here but does anyone else besides me think there are some people here with BS fake complaints ? Maybe not even having an R-15 either ?
> 
> I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


I only WISH that I was faking it. I was actually pretty happy with my R15 until July when the remote sensor on my first one went bad. It was a reliable unit, and my only complaints were the software-related bugs that everyone complains about. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anyone to repair that unit, and since then I've had an extraordinary run of bad luck with my replacement units. I'm not damning all R15s, but the fact that I've gotten so many defective products (1 bad remote sensor, 2 bad "line out" feeds, 1 that couldn't be pulled out of the "restart" cycle, and 1 that just started acting very strangely) in a row definitely makes me question their quality control standards.

Just because you haven't personally experienced a problem doesn't mean that someone is faking it. (What a strange thing for a person to do!) There are countless ways in which electronics can go bad.

Frankly, I didn't think to come to this forum when I was happy with my first R15; when things started going wrong, I started using this forum as a way to gather information, and yes, to vent.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Everyone knows how much better it has become since way back then.
> That was how many updates ago and he was giving advice like he has 10 of them and using them every day.


It was like 3 updates ago and do we really know how much better it is since February?

Most of the claims are it "seems" to be faster or "Seems" more stable. The first run logic "seems" to be improved.... but most of these posts were during a the summer rerun season.... Only Wolfpack has documented tests with objective results, and it successfully recorded 81% IIRC.... I will let you decide if 81% is acceptable. But for ever subjective "it's getting better post" is another "that update just made my perfect R15 break" post.

Your own posts have indicated continued frustration over issues. But you seem to like the product "it could be"

I dunno if I am the person you are referring to but I may be, as I stopped using my R15 in February.

I try to state that when stating my opinions in interest of full disclosures and to make it clear I cannot speak to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the updates.

This is why I pay close attention to the responses to the updates.

But my intentions (although some may disagree) is not simply to bash the R15. I get pulled in that direction when I read 50 posts saying it "Seems" more stable and despite nothing else being fixed, I then read a post saying how much better it has gotten. It sounds like an urban legend that is repeated so much people believe it despite little to evidence to support it.

I would love for Earl to post release notes that said items 1,2, and 3 were fixed and 10 people said "yep all better"....i don't thnk we have any examples of that.... and if we do we need many more before we say things are significantly better.

I will leave you with a quote from one of Earl's posts- not to pick on Earl, but to illustrate that we may not be as close as we think:

Honestly... I see *two bugs remaining *in the unit... one of which is just a feature limitation... Those being the 50 AutoRecord Limit combined with the 100 todo list. This isn't a "bug" in the sense of an undesired outcome, it is *simply a hard coded value maximum.... And I know the DirecTV is working on fixing that*.
The other bug is the "missing" recordings... see other threads.

*IMHO... with the recent software patch to fix the Caller-ID and Remote resonsiveness, everything is just a difference in functionality from what we where used to with TiVo*. *Earl 12-28-05*​(emphasis mine)


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

That's the problem with not providing specifics: everyone thinks you're talking about them. 

For the record, I've been active on this forum pretty much starting with the release of the R15. I was always very clear about the fact that I didn't have one (to the point of being tired of saying it and considering putting it in a signature). Now I do have one, and now I post real, not imagined, problems.


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## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

As a relatively new user of the R15 (with the latest firmware), I have not seen what some of you have. For that, I thank you. You all came before me and made enough noise here and other places for DTV to listen and change things for the better.

I have seen my first issue (I think, but I may have done something screwy). I had an SL for HBO's Inside the NFL (Wednesday night at 10 PM ET). I saw it in the prioritizer. However, it was not going to record last night's show. I saw next week's show in the to do list.

Either I messed up, or some information about that show lead the R15 to believe that it should not record last night's show (maybe it thought it was a repeat, who knows?).

I deleted the SL and tried to re-add it and it would not let me for a while. I just waited about 10 minutes and was able to re-add this as an SL and everything worked. It did record last night's show and it show next week's show in the to do list.

I have not had any problems with my other SLs.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> Now I do have one, and now I post real, not imagined, problems.


Hopefully Beth from D* not reading this. :lol: See might send out the white coats for you.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I mean ?????? Everyone knows how much better it has become since way back then.
> That was how many updates ago .....





Bobman said:


> In another thread we discussed what we would like to see fixed or added in the R-15 but what would be the *barest minimum *that should be done soon.
> 
> For me the barest minimum should be:
> 
> ...


 9-18-06

So i think you can see my confusion in determining how much better the updates have made it.. you are asking what the *bare minimum *is to making the R15 acceptable?????

That does not sound like a ringing endorsement of how much better it's gotten.


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## nyzorro99 (Aug 29, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So I am off to another forum where I need to tell some Hot Rich 25 Hunk, that I am a sweet 18yrd girl... :eek2: (Just kidding, but you get the idea on how easy it is to "mask" the truth in typed internet world)


That was you?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

nyzorro99 said:


> That was you?


Yes it was big boy...


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> Most of the claims are it "seems" to be faster or "Seems" more stable. The first run logic "seems" to be improved.... but most of these posts were during a the summer rerun season.... Only Wolfpack has documented tests with objective results, and it successfully recorded 81% IIRC.... I will let you decide if 81% is acceptable. But for ever subjective "it's getting better post" is another "that update just made my perfect R15 break" post.


I can point to one area where it's more stable. It used to be that doing anything in the Prioritizer was practically guaranteeing a lock up. It's now much more stable in that respect at least.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Ya know, some things bother some people more than others, too. 

I am not a demanding user, and am pretty good at devising work-arounds for things that don't perform as expected. I think I'd be a lot happier with some of these units than their current owners are. I try to dismiss problems with a "huh, how about that!" and move on when possible.

Next week my HR20/AT9 are scheduled to be installed, and I've already got my HDMI cable. Let's see how THAT goes.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Are there problems.... most definently.
> Are they as sever as some people post... for them... yes, for other no....


To me, it just depends on what you expect from it. Take my story for example:

When I first swtiched from cable to DTV, they told me that using the TiVo DVR (Phillips DR39) I would be able to the major selling points they advertised were:

'Pause/ Rewind / Fast-Forward live TV'
'Record Two programs at the same time while watching a previous recording or one of the shows being recorded'
'Create Seasons Pass recordings for new episodes of shows'

So I took the leap and lived blissfully happy for the next 3 years  .

Then, the unthinkable happened: my TiVo died :eek2:

So its off to Best Buy to replace it, maybe this is not so bad after all, at least I'll get more disk space. :grin: 
_< fast forward to BestBuy>_

"Well DTV doesn't use TiVo anymore, but they have their own now Dear Sir. They call it DirectTV Plus. It has all the same features as your old TiVo unit with more disk space and also has the OnScreen Caller ID and Active Channel features."

"Can I still Pause / FF / RW live TV?" 
- "Absolutely."
"Can I still record 2 shows at the same time?" 
- "You know it."
"Can I still create a Seasons Pass to automatically record ALL NEW EPISODES of my favorite shows?"
- "Well, now they call it a 'Series Link', but it works just the same."

"Cool!" I say, "hook me up with that bad boy!":hurah:

_<fast forward back home>_
Can I still Pause / FF / Rewind? Well, technically, YES. But notice we didn't say reliably or without needing an ocassional reset. 
Can I still record 2 shows? Well, yes, but we didn't gurantee that video and audio would actually be there afterwards. 
Can I still automatically record episodes of a series? Well, yes but see the fine print for question number 2 for details regarding this feature as well.

So remember everyone, "Always read the FINE PRINT!" or you too may find yourself suffering from these perceived "Problems"...:nono2:

p.s.: You may be asking "Why would someone spend their time typing a post like this on a Internet Message Board?" 
Because since my new DVR can't be trusted, we have to watch 'Survivor' on live tv!
:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:


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## KY Mike (May 3, 2006)

Bobman said:


> I am not saying this to offend anyone here but does anyone else besides me think there are some people here with BS fake complaints ? Maybe not even having an R-15 either ?
> 
> I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


Ever think that are board members that are faking their concerns about other people faking their R15 problems?

Just curious


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Now that is the real question?


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

In theory, everyone here who shares the same model of receiver (300 or 500) should be experiencing the same problems of others under the same conditions.

If you haven't experienced a certain problem yet in your group that others are experiencing, chances are that you will in time.


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## untouchable (Jun 24, 2006)

So does that mean since I just had my 500 replaced with a 300 that I should expect problems?? 

I do believe some people do over think their problems...sometimes they aren't as bad as they seem to be. Of course, I did continue to have repeated problems even after the upgrade, but it did get BETTER...I just couldn't live with the fact that I was going to come home and have another recording missing or have to reformat another time..I called, and got a refurbished unit...waiting to see what happens with the 300 now that I got rid of the 500. 

Just as an example that the R15 can be a fairly good unit, my girlfriend's parents have 2 DVR's, a 300 and 500...they have yet to have problems with either of theirs...they've been D* customers for about 9 or 10 months.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

pentium101 said:


> In theory, everyone here who shares the same model of receiver (300 or 500) should be experiencing the same problems of others under the same conditions.
> 
> If you haven't experienced a certain problem yet in your group that others are experiencing, chances are that you will in time.


Unfortunately (from the point of view of reproducing and solving the problem) this is not true.

On the first part, it's possible that hardware variances, even within a model MAY contrubute to some of the problems. Different batches of memory chips, different tolerences of resistors, minor differences in hard drives, etc, can all contribute to instability and glitches in a system like this. You'll note for example, that when a product is recalled for some saftey reason, it's often a certain batch or serial number range that is in question, not a whole model. There are differences.

On the second part, even if a problem is one that would show on two machines under the same conditions, those conditions might be VERY subtle and highly unlikely to occur on two given machines. For example, a certain coding bug might ONLY manifest itself, when the total length of characters in the list of titles in the prioritizer exactly equals a certain number and the time is divisble by 205, or something similarly screwy.

The only point being: Just cuz only one person has the problem doesn't mean it's not a real problem, and if one person has a problem, it doesn't mean that second person will be able to reproduce it.


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## unsub (Dec 27, 2004)

I think some users here fake being happy with there equipment and some that post here actually work for Directv. I could like the R-15, but its sluggish, no RF remote (and there never will be, face it), and they are not updating the network logos anymore. I`m not happy with the service, but I still use it, I guess cause its better than the alternatives. I mean we just love to send $100 plus a month to DTV.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

unsub said:


> I think some users here fake being happy with there equipment and some that post here actually work for Directv.


I'm curious. Are you saying that you think D* employs people to falsely praise the R15 here? Or, is it D* employees that love the company so much they do it on their own?

I think there are two extremes for users. Those that have their half dozen shows set up, and as long as they record and playback they're happy and don't really mess with the box. Obviously, they would experience few problems.

Others record everything they could possibly watch, keeping the box pretty much full. This requires the box to do a lot more conflict resolution. This type of user tends to spend a lot of time organizing SL priorities, managing the ToDo list, and searching. They tend to work the box harder than the average user and are more apt to experience problems.

That's just a generalization. There are other factors. Personally, I believe heat plays a part. I was having 2-3 lock ups a day until I hardwired the fan on all the time. The temp dropped from the mid 50's to the low 40's. (Celsius). After that, they pretty much stopped all together. There could be dozens of other causes of problems too. Marginal dish alignment, poor cables, RF interference from another device. Who knows?


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

qwerty said:


> I'm curious. Are you saying that you think D* employs people to falsely praise the R15 here? Or, is it D* employees that love the company so much they do it on their own?
> 
> I think there are two extremes for users. Those that have their half dozen shows set up, and as long as they record and playback they're happy and don't really mess with the box. Obviously, they would experience few problems.
> 
> ...


I am one of those in the middle. I have never had much more than 50% full on my drive, I have, on average 2 - 3 SLs and less than a dozen on the TDL. My temperature is always 46 when I check it.

My dish alignment is spot on, in the 90's, all my cables are new and frequency swept and there is nothing else near my DVR.

Yet, in spite of all of this and I am probably an average user, my box has become unreliable. I have had to reset it many times, most recently because it froze on LIVE TV!! I wasn't recording anything, I wasn't watching a recording. LIVE TV!


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

sheridan1952 said:


> I wasn't recording anything, I wasn't watching a recording. LIVE TV!


Everything you see from any DVR is not live, its recorded. Turn your DVR and a standard receiver to the same channel. Notice the sounds dont match and the DVR has about a 5 second delay.

If you already tried the format, then I would try to exchange the unit as you seem to have 10x the problems of others.


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Everything you see from any DVR is not live, its recorded. Turn your DVR and a standard receiver to the same channel. Notice the sounds dont match and the DVR has about a 5 second delay.
> 
> If you already tried the format, then I would try to exchange the unit as you seem to have 10x the problems of others.


So live isn't really live. I never noticed that.

I have not reformatted yet, I will after I have dumped all my recordings down. I am not willing to lose them yet.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Everything you see from any DVR is not live, its recorded. Turn your DVR and a standard receiver to the same channel. Notice the sounds dont match and the DVR has about a 5 second delay.


Intersting tid bit, the R15 has less of a delay then the Tivo's do. I have the HR10-250 and R15 on the same TV (and use the split function on my TV a lot) and the R15 is ahead of the HR10-250.


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## serenstarlight (Sep 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes it was big boy...


Well I've heard it all now, a 16 yr old female who knows more about electronics then half of directv's male population


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Intersting tid bit, the R15 has less of a delay then the Tivo's do. I have the HR10-250 and R15 on the same TV (and use the split function on my TV a lot) and the R15 is ahead of the HR10-250.


I'm not even convinced the R15 actually plays from the buffer when you're completely caught up to live. I say this because during one of my lockups, while it wouldn't let me change the channel or bring up any menus or anything, it was blissfully and flawlessly showing live TV on the channel it was tuned to.

Who's the one with the external hard drive enclosure with activity light? Is there just one light, or are there seprerate lights for read versus write? I'd be interested to see if it's even doing any reads when it's playing and buffering live.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> I'm not even convinced the R15 actually plays from the buffer when you're completely caught up to live. I say this because during one of my lockups, while it wouldn't let me change the channel or bring up any menus or anything, it was blissfully and flawlessly showing live TV on the channel it was tuned to.


I've thought that too. One of the reasons that I think that is when exiting a record (before the keep the buffer live) or change the channel, you can't rewind all the way to the begining of what you just saw. I only noticed this because I've done this and then did a "what did they say" and found out that it won't let you rewind to what you'd think is the begining of the buffer. This is also why I think there was/is an issue of watching some thing that is still recording in MYVOD. It's almost like it doesn't know how to throw the finished recording from the "live bucket" to the "recorded bucket".


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## marksrader (Sep 14, 2006)

I have three R15s and one Phillips DTivo box. I started reading the posts here before I ever got the R15s. The thing I notice a lot is that many people express their disappointment in the R15 because they were so comfortable with the DTivo. The truth is they are not the same. When I use the R15 I judge it on its own merits as a standalone unit. At first I found myself trying to use the R15 with a Tivo mind-set... that was very frustrating. But if I use the R15 and don't try to attach Tivo logic to it I feel a lot better about the R15. 

There are features the R15 was not designed to have. It is not logical to complain about something that the system was not designed to do. But on the other hand.. if I want to, I can like my Tivo box better than my R15.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

qwerty said:


> I'm curious. Are you saying that you think D* employs people to falsely praise the R15 here? Or, is it D* employees that love the company so much they do it on their own?


Maybe stockholders who want to create good buzz. Maybe PR people who's job it is, in part to spin issues and manage expectations. Maybe resellers who want to sell more product. Maybe installers and CSR who don't like the idea that people think they suck.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

marksrader said:


> It is not logical to complain about something that the system was not designed to do.


Sometimes true, but more often in the case of comparing the R15 to the Tivo, it's perfectly logical to complain about stuff that it SHOULD have been designed to do, and you didn't need to be a genius to think of it becaus eit had already been done.

Add to that stuff that it WAS designed to do, but fails to do as well as the tivo...like keep running without hanging and properly identify repeats...and the complaints are even more logical.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

walters said:


> I'm not even convinced the R15 actually plays from the buffer when you're completely caught up to live


I was thinking the same thing about the Scientific Atlanta DVR I tried this week. One of the things that bugged me was when you did any trick play operation from live, it showed a blank white screen and delyed for a second, as if perhps it was switching from true live to buffer.


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## marksrader (Sep 14, 2006)

Sorry I didn't mean to say it wasn't logical for you to do it... I mean for me.. it is not logical. Plus I am lucky not to have had many problems with my R15s.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

ApK said:


> Maybe stockholders who want to create good buzz. Maybe PR people who's job it is, in part to spin issues and manage expectations. Maybe resellers who want to sell more product. Maybe installers and CSR who don't like the idea that people think they suck.


Any thing's possible. I've seen resellers do that with reviews on Amazon. But, if that's the case, they're doing a lousy job! I think the best I've seen posted is to the effect of "mine's not having any problems."


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

ApK said:


> Sometimes true, but more often in the case of comparing the R15 to the Tivo, it's perfectly logical to complain about stuff that it SHOULD have been designed to do, and you didn't need to be a genius to think of it because it had already been done.
> 
> Add to that stuff that it WAS designed to do, but fails to do as well as the tivo...like keep running without hanging and properly identify repeats...and the complaints are even more logical.


Eggzactly! All DVRs are designed to do one thing, RECORD programs so they can be viewed later. Everything else is just bells and whistles. 
I think anyone who used to own a DTivo and had to switch to the R15 (as i did) would eventually get used to it and move on with life. But the simple fact is that the R15 does not reliably perform the basic functions of a DVR.

I missed two season premiers of our favorite shows this week because the R15 does not work properly, not because it works differently thatn the TiVo.

If they don't fix this FAST, they are gonna have some REAL problems in the future.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

ApK said:


> Unfortunately (from the point of view of reproducing and solving the problem) this is not true.
> 
> On the first part, it's possible that hardware variances, even within a model MAY contrubute to some of the problems. Different batches of memory chips, different tolerences of resistors, minor differences in hard drives, etc, can all contribute to instability and glitches in a system like this. You'll note for example, that when a product is recalled for some saftey reason, it's often a certain batch or serial number range that is in question, not a whole model. There are differences.
> 
> ...


I did say in theory and was negating the variables. 

I'll say it in another way, if 2 or more people with the same series of unit are having the same problem then the chances of it also happening to you are quite good.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

pentium101 said:


> I'll say it in another way, if


Dont bother he just likes to nitpick and argue.


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## bearymore (Sep 1, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> I think anyone who used to own a DTivo and had to switch to the R15 (as i did) would eventually get used to it and move on with life. But the simple fact is that the R15 does not reliably perform the basic functions of a DVR.
> 
> I missed two season premiers of our favorite shows this week because the R15 does not work properly, not because it works differently thatn the TiVo.
> 
> If they don't fix this FAST, they are gonna have some REAL problems in the future.


I totally agree. My Tivo died, so I switched to the R15 after succumbing to the blandishments of DTV. After using it a while, I have come actually to prefer the R15's interface to that of the Tivo. However, it just doesn't work as it should. I've lost shows, shows don't record when they should, autorecords record from channels I don't get, and FF and RW don't work correctly for me. After reading the board, I cringe at the idea of doing a weekly reset and losing guide data (and proper DVR functionality) for the day afterwards, and I find the need for an occasional reformat to "clean out the cobwebs" unacceptable. In four years with my DirceTivo, I can count on one hand the number of resets (which don't lose the guide data anyway) and I never, never had to reformat. To me, these are deal breakers.

As it stands, I've ordered a new (well, refurbished) Directivo and intend to return my R15. When DTV comes out with a DVR that, excuse the pun, is ready for prime time, I'll switch back.

I'm curious as to why you feel you have to use the R15?


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Unfortunately, my DR39 TiVo box had a failure on tuner 2. At the time I purchased the R-15, I was blissfully unaware that D* had dropped TiVo in favor of their own unit. I was mildly apprehensive, but the bullet points on the box and the guy at bestbuy confirmed that this new DVR would do everything the old TiVo did and more (meaning the Caller ID, and Active channel stuff). So I bought it.
I have checked most of the retailers in this area and there just are no R10 units available (surprisingly, I have seen more than a few R15s on the shelves in "Opened Boxes"). I have been keeping an eye on the online auctions where they are plentiful, but the prices are pretty high. 
I am not opposed to owning the R15, in fact, like you, I have actually come to prefer it from a UI and menu standpoint. So I don't want to just chuck it and buy a new one. But if they don't get it figured out quickly I will have to do something.


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## bearymore (Sep 1, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> Unfortunately, my DR39 TiVo box had a failure on tuner 2. At the time I purchased the R-15, I was blissfully unaware that D* had dropped TiVo in favor of their own unit. I was mildly apprehensive, but the bullet points on the box and the guy at bestbuy confirmed that this new DVR would do everything the old TiVo did and more (meaning the Caller ID, and Active channel stuff). So I bought it.
> I have checked most of the retailers in this area and there just are no R10 units available (surprisingly, I have seen more than a few R15s on the shelves in "Opened Boxes"). I have been keeping an eye on the online auctions where they are plentiful, but the prices are pretty high.
> I am not opposed to owning the R15, in fact, like you, I have actually come to prefer it from a UI and menu standpoint. So I don't want to just chuck it and buy a new one. But if they don't get it figured out quickly I will have to do something.


I also had to change when my DTivo died. I called DTV to ask a question about access cards, and was offered an R15 free for lease. The CSR swore up and down that the functionality of the R15 was "exactly the same as the Tivo". So I went for it.

Check out the Directivo board at Tivocommunity.com. There are a number of threads about finding lower cost Directivos.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> I am not saying this to offend anyone here but does anyone else besides me think there are some people here with BS fake complaints ? Maybe not even having an R-15 either ?
> 
> I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


I've been out of town for a few days and I'm trying to catch up on threads. I haven't read through this entire thread (which I probably should do before posting this response) but I felt a need to address this immediately.

Personally I start with the premise that anyone posting a problem is doing so looking for help or support, not just to *****. Anyone that would even think someone would post a phony complain, to me, means they would do the same.

While you state "I am not saying this to offend anyone here but" you are doing just that. Since you brought this up, please note which posts you believe are phony/fake.

I may regret posting this without reading the entire thread, but I needed to vent from your original post. I will now continue reading.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> While you state "I am not saying this to offend anyone here but" you are doing just that. Since you brought this up, please note which posts you believe are phony/fake.


Oh, for the love of Pete, please don't. What'd be the point? Will the anonymous, unverified poster of the message bring his R15 and his lawyer over to your house to prove his honorability?

Pointing out that not every post on an anonymous, public Internet forum should automatically be taken as gospel is good advise and worth repeating from time to time.

To those who were offended by the comment:
If you're offended by an anonymous stranger saying they question the veracity of your unverifiable anonymous Internet posting, then perhaps you need to find another outlet.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Personally I start with the premise that anyone posting a problem is doing so looking for help or support, not just to *****.


Well most of here know at least one person who did such a thing :lol:

I won't mention any names but most will know who i'm referring to.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Yes, Clint. You are correct on that.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Personally I


No offense but personally I really could care less what you think.  

Please feel free to block me as I am not about to play your games in multiple threads here when your bored and want to get some kicks.

You can start all your anti R-15 vs TiVo threads all over again and have your fun but I am not going to be sucked into it. I will continue to state my opinions and observations and you can do likewise but dont expect any response back.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> No offense but personally I really could care less what you think.
> 
> Please feel free to block me as I am not about to play your games in multiple threads here when your bored and want to get some kicks.
> 
> You can start all your anti R-15 vs TiVo threads all over again and have your fun but I am not going to be sucked into it. I will continue to state my opinions and observations and you can do likewise but dont expect any response back.


Ok guys play nice or take this private please.


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## tong (May 22, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Personally I start with the premise that anyone posting a problem is doing so looking for help or support, not just to *****. Anyone that would even think someone would post a phony complain, to me, means they would do the same.
> 
> While you state "I am not saying this to offend anyone here but" you are doing just that. Since you brought this up, please note which posts you believe are phony/fake.
> 
> I may regret posting this without reading the entire thread, but I needed to vent from your original post. I will now continue reading.


Well said and I agree.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> No offense but personally I really could care less what you think.
> 
> Please feel free to block me as I am not about to play your games in multiple threads here when your bored and want to get some kicks.
> 
> You can start all your anti R-15 vs TiVo threads all over again and have your fun but I am not going to be sucked into it. I will continue to state my opinions and observations and you can do likewise but dont expect any response back.


I don't feel any need to "block" you Bobman and I take no offense. I voiced my opinion on this subject. The subject of this thread is "Ever think some users here fake complaints?" I answered your question and asked for examples of some of the posts you felt were fake.

I don't consider myself anti-R15 but I do consider myself anti-any DVR that doesn't do what it's advertised to do.

Since you couldn't care less about what I think I don't see why any comment I make bothers you.


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

Having had my R15 for 4 days and experiencing two of the same problems expressed in many other posts in this forum I must believe members here are telling the truth.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

My apologies. Its just been a long bad day for me.


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## marksrader (Sep 14, 2006)

pentium101 said:


> I did say in theory and was negating the variables.
> 
> I'll say it in another way, if 2 or more people with the same series of unit are having the same problem then the chances of it also happening to you are quite good.


Awesome, so that means if two (2) or more folks are not having "standard DVR fuctionality" problems then it is likely that it will happen to..... or does this logic only cut one way?:eek2:


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## marksrader (Sep 14, 2006)

ApK said:


> Oh, for the love of Pete, please don't. What'd be the point? Will the anonymous, unverified poster of the message bring his R15 and his lawyer over to your house to prove his honorability?
> 
> Pointing out that not every post on an anonymous, public Internet forum should automatically be taken as gospel is good advise and worth repeating from time to time.
> 
> ...


I can't quote who and when but I have seen statements like : "All I have here is a door-stop." I have heard claims that indaviduals can not even watch live TV and CSR is unwilling to help. I am not the only one who has seen these comments. I don't think anyone is saying people are making up their problems but I must say that for many the way they articulate the problem is somewhat... unique and fantastic. :sure:


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

When I'm making adjustments on my stereo, I sometimes hold open the entertainment center's glass door by pulling out my D11 receiver a few inches so it's against the door.

The D11 is a door-stop.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

All I can say is that I have noticed a considerable change in the Arctic Ice Pack since installing my R-15, although the frequency and intensity of Tropical Atlantic storms has declined.

Coincidence, i think not...


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

marksrader said:


> Awesome, so that means if two (2) or more folks are not having "standard DVR fuctionality" problems then it is likely that it will happen to..... or does this logic only cut one way?:eek2:


I'm sorry, but this logic only applies to the probability of a failure to occur.

In comparison, do you think that every Dell laptop's battery will explode? There actually may be some users who would have never experienced the battery failure. But, Dell didn't want to take any chances and had decided to recall them all.

If I read that 2 or more people were having the same problem, I certainly wouldn't expect my unit to somehow be immune to the possibility of experiencing the same problem.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

marksrader said:


> I can't quote who and when but I have seen statements like : "All I have here is a door-stop." I have heard claims that indaviduals can not even watch live TV and CSR is unwilling to help. I am not the only one who has seen these comments. I don't think anyone is saying people are making up their problems but I must say that for many the way they articulate the problem is somewhat... unique and fantastic. :sure:


Actually, before my reformat, that would nearly be a reasonable way to describe my unit. I never bothered with support (face it: the least of us here knows more than they do). But I was having to reset it every single time I wanted to use it.

"CSR unwilling to help": well, I imagine their advice would have eventually (after 30 minutes of troubleshooting I'd already done) been to either reformat it or send it back for a replacement. Fine for me since I'm just playing with it, but I would have considered that unhelpful if this were my primary unit. It's not their fault they don't have any better news for someone in that situation, but the absence of an alternative doesn't necessarily make it an acceptable solution.


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## marksrader (Sep 14, 2006)

It is true that when something strange is happening and it requires such a drastic measure and it is your only option... very frustrating. My mother in-law was having trouble with her R15 and my experience with CSR was pretty good. The rep was very straight forward about the problems they had been having and told me up front that it might be a three step approach to fix it.. She was also clear on the fact that it might require the box to be replaced. Obviously a canned speech but after about 20 minutes we were up and running and she has not had a repeat of the problems yet. Been about a month. Keeping my fingures crossed. :grin:


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

marksrader said:


> It is true that when something strange is happening and it requires such a drastic measure and it is your only option... very frustrating. My mother in-law was having trouble with her R15 and my experience with CSR was pretty good. The rep was very straight forward about the problems they had been having and told me up front that it might be a three step approach to fix it.. She was also clear on the fact that it might require the box to be replaced. Obviously a canned speech but after about 20 minutes we were up and running and she has not had a repeat of the problems yet. Been about a month. Keeping my fingures crossed. :grin:


I don't know if that's exception or rule, but I've seen far too many reports of a CSR saying "nope, never heard about that issue before". Even if it's true, it's really not helpful. It borders on what this thread is accusing people of, actually.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Not to drag too far off topic, but the problem of first level support people being of a caliber where they are more concerned about feeling important and being treated well by the customer than treating the customer well and making the customer feel important, and having a pathalogical aversion to admitting they don't know something and asking for help is not limited to to DTV.

My personal peeve is asking a store sales clerk if they have an item and being told "I don't think so."
I always want to say "No one cares what you think. Get off your rear end and go find out the right answer. Do your job."


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## tong (May 22, 2006)

tford said:


> Having had my R15 for 4 days and experiencing two of the same problems expressed in many other posts in this forum I must believe members here are telling the truth.


Exactly. Instead of sharing experiences on an online forum we must be lying that we have software / quality control problems with the r15

-- another red button reset tonight, it wouldnt play recordings from the VoD, worked fine afterwards


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I've been out of town for a few days and I'm trying to catch up on threads. I haven't read through this entire thread (which I probably should do before posting this response) but I felt a need to address this immediately.
> 
> Personally I start with the premise that anyone posting a problem is doing so looking for help or support, not just to *****. Anyone that would even think someone would post a phony complain, to me, means they would do the same.
> 
> While you state "I am not saying this to offend anyone here but" you are doing just that. Since you brought this up, please note which posts you believe are phony/fake.


you are 100% right.



Bobman said:


> I am not saying this to offend anyone here but does anyone else besides me think there are some people here with BS fake complaints ? Maybe not even having an R-15 either ?
> 
> I have been here for many months, have 2 R-15's, and just some of the things I read here sound so phony lately.


I havent been here as long as alot of you guys,not opening my mouth or trying not to offend or pi** anyone off,but this has to take the cake.

like wolffpack said show the fake posts.


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