# Is HD programming worth it?



## smackboy1 (Oct 9, 2006)

I know it's rather subjective but I'm on the fence about upgrading to HD. We don't watch any sports. Mostly watch dramas and comedies on networks and HBO e.g. Sopranos, Wire, Entourage, Desperate Housewives, Unit, Smith etc. Maybe some Food Network. Never watch anything live, would have to get the HD DVR (ViP622). The options are:

1) to get just the networks and HBO in HD.
2) get the entire Silver HD package
3) just live with SD

So how much extra viewing pleasure does HD give over SD for the shows we already watch? How do HD movies compare to DVD movies (I use an upconverting HDMI DVD player)? Are the HD channels in the package worth watching after the initial thrill of HD wears off? Does the initial thrill of HD wear off? BTW I have a 60" HDTV.


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

smackboy1 said:


> I know it's rather subjective but I'm on the fence about upgrading to HD. We don't watch any sports. Mostly watch dramas and comedies on networks and HBO e.g. Sopranos, Wire, Entourage, Desperate Housewives, Unit, Smith etc. Maybe some Food Network. Never watch anything live, would have to get the HD DVR (ViP622). The options are:
> 
> 1) to get just the networks and HBO in HD.
> 2) get the entire Silver HD package
> ...


Had mine about a week now and LOVE it~ I have 2 -42" HD plasma's and boy have they been Under achieving!  Well plasma in Mstr Bedroom is still waiting on HD box but the 622 In the LR is great! Like the FORMAT feature on the 622 makes picture veiwing easy! Dont think DTV has that? Not sure cause I've been with Dish for 9 years now..After watching HD the hardest part is watching something on sd looks fuzzy and grainy.....Oh I got the HD PLatnium...You'll love it!


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## pinkey2u (Jan 21, 2006)

It depends on your location!!! If you live in the western Washington State area I would advise against it.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Once you get HD you will find yourself watching things in HD just because they are in HD. It blows away DVD (on most programs) and especially with a 60" display it is just too much to describe. I would recommend getting an OTA antenna installed if you can get locals that way (check antennaweb.org). I have a 62" DLP and I can't begin to describe the difference, spend the extra money now and you will never regret it.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

Once you get that 60" HDTV hookup to a HDTV STB and start seeing the real thing instead of an up-converted DVD you are going to be sayin why did I wait so long. It doesn't make any difference where you live once you start watching HDTV you are going to be wishing there was no such thing as SD any more. It is hard to watch SD any more for me and I have just a 32" HDTV CRT. :welcome_s :allthumbs


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## pinkey2u (Jan 21, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> Once you get that 60" HDTV hookup to a HDTV STB and start seeing the real thing instead of an up-converted DVD you are going to be sayin why did I wait so long. It doesn't make any difference where you live once you start watching HDTV you are going to be wishing there was no such thing as SD any more. It is hard to watch SD any more for me and I have just a 32" HDTV CRT. :welcome_s :allthumbs


Try watching a 60" HDTV in the Puget Sound area through an E* HDTV receiver through E*5 on the 129 Sat!!!


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

pinkey2u said:


> It depends on your location!!! If you live in the western Washington State area I would advise against it.


I'm in Seattle why not E HD?


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## pinkey2u (Jan 21, 2006)

calgary2800 said:


> I'm in Seattle why not E HD?


If you get a metal package then you will also receive the 15 Voom HD channels. You will receive the Voom channels through the E*5 bird on the 129 satellite position. The E*5 satellite is a dying satellite that wobbles and has a bad foot print on the west coast and the farther north you go the less you are going to get good HD reception of the Voom channels. The Seattle area falls in the poor reception area. As of now it will probably be around a year in a half before a new satellite will be launched to replace the E*5 satellite. There is an option becoming available for the people in the Puget Sound region which contains a 24" satellite dish which will also use the new LN-LNB. I believe this new LN-LNB was built to be used in the State of Alaska. From what I gather, the new LN-LNB will add about 5 points over the D-500 dedicated satellite dishes LNB and the 24" dish over the D-500 dish is about 10 points which is a total of 15 points for the unit. But I am in a wait and see mode as of right now I get an average reading on the transponder 11 of the 129 satellite of 71. I have read where the reading of transponder 11 of the 129 satellite with the 24" satellite dish with the new LN-LNB is around 80. If I would get the same 80 reading as what has been the reading given for the 24" dish system then that would only be a gain of 9 points and I don't believe it will give me much help...But I could be wrong!!! As far as problems with the 129 satellite it includes unlocking of some Voom Channels then coming back to be able to view after a few minutes, macroblocking, pixelation, sound stutter and picture breaking up. The 129 satellite seems to go through this cycle about every 20 to 30 minutes. Kind of varies at different times or months. Myself, I am going to contact the local Dish Network Service Corporation office and talk with a gentleman I have worked with in the past and listen to here what he has to say about the 24" dish and new LN-LNB and if he thinks that it will help and the new 24" dish and LN-LNB is available, then I might go ahead with an antenna upgrade.


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## smackboy1 (Oct 9, 2006)

bobukcat said:


> I would recommend getting an OTA antenna installed if you can get locals that way (check antennaweb.org).


Thanks everybody for the advice.

Apparently I need a large directional antenna (violet code, 40 miles away). Sounds expensive. Is it worth trying to get OTA or should I just pull my locals from Dish? Is there any advantage to one over the other (I'll probably be using a ViP622).


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

This question comes around about as regularly as my cable bill. The obvious answers
are: "It depends" or "That's up to you."

Having said that, HD tv display prices are dropping and programming is coming along
nicely. I get 15 HD channels, with two added just recently by my cable company. If I still
had Dish, I would be getting about 30 hi-def channels.

Is HD worth it? To me it is, obviously, but you're not me. Examine your own wants and
needs and decide for yourself, but don't wait too long -- with that big 60-incher, you'll
be missing out on some amazing and stunningly beautiful television programming.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

pinkey2u said:


> If you get a metal package then you will also receive the 15 Voom HD channels. You will receive the Voom channels through the E*5 bird on the 129 satellite position. The E*5 satellite is a dying satellite that wobbles and has a bad foot print on the west coast and the farther north you go the less you are going to get good HD reception of the Voom channels. The Seattle area falls in the poor reception area. As of now it will probably be around a year in a half before a new satellite will be launched to replace the E*5 satellite. There is an option becoming available for the people in the Puget Sound region which contains a 24" satellite dish which will also use the new LN-LNB. I believe this new LN-LNB was built to be used in the State of Alaska. From what I gather, the new LN-LNB will add about 5 points over the D-500 dedicated satellite dishes LNB and the 24" dish over the D-500 dish is about 10 points which is a total of 15 points for the unit. But I am in a wait and see mode as of right now I get an average reading on the transponder 11 of the 129 satellite of 71. I have read where the reading of transponder 11 of the 129 satellite with the 24" satellite dish with the new LN-LNB is around 80. If I would get the same 80 reading as what has been the reading given for the 24" dish system then that would only be a gain of 9 points and I don't believe it will give me much help...But I could be wrong!!! As far as problems with the 129 satellite it includes unlocking of some Voom Channels then coming back to be able to view after a few minutes, macroblocking, pixelation, sound stutter and picture breaking up. The 129 satellite seems to go through this cycle about every 20 to 30 minutes. Kind of varies at different times or months. Myself, I am going to contact the local Dish Network Service Corporation office and talk with a gentleman I have worked with in the past and listen to here what he has to say about the 24" dish and new LN-LNB and if he thinks that it will help and the new 24" dish and LN-LNB is available, then I might go ahead with an antenna upgrade.


God, that is a lot to think about. I'm still sitting on the fence as I have not been spoiled yet by HD and actully some of the SD channels that are worth it like Nat Geographic and Discovery come in great. Patience is always a good thing with technology, I'll just wait it out some more.


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

I live in the Puget Sound region (western washington) and yes the Voom channels have occasionally had problems, but OH MY GOSH it is definitely still worth the upgrade to HD!

Most of my HD watching is honestly on the networks, and having the VIP622 I can record three HD network shows at one time. Network shows will never look the same again in SD, HD makes all the difference to me. In fact (kind of weird to say) I rarely watch anything in SD any more, because it just looks so crappy now. I have a few shows in SD, but nearly all are in HD now. 

The Voom channels are great, HDNET and HDNET movies are great, and the picture quality is excellent. I am very happy.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Jolard said:


> ...In fact (kind of weird to say) I rarely watch anything in SD any more, because it just looks so crappy now. I have a few shows in SD, but nearly all are in HD now.
> 
> The Voom channels are great, HDNET and HDNET movies are great, and the picture quality is excellent. I am very happy.


I said something very similar in the HD Programming Forum just last week.

Sounds like we have another 'HD snob' -- welcome to the club!


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## concord704 (Feb 19, 2006)

smackboy1 said:


> Thanks everybody for the advice.
> 
> Apparently I need a large directional antenna (violet code, 40 miles away). Sounds expensive. Is it worth trying to get OTA or should I just pull my locals from Dish? Is there any advantage to one over the other (I'll probably be using a ViP622).


Check out antennas direct (www.antennasdirect.com) , has been a sponsor to dbstalk, not real expensive... check out the DB4.

A couple questions that may determine if it's worth trying OTA:

1) Do you have a clear view of the broadcast antennas, if you live in a valley with hills/mountains in between the harder to get a solid signal.

2) Are most/all the broadcast antennas in the same direction? Here is Charlotte, they're spread over 4 locations and I'm in a valley with a rotator on antenna and a ChannelMaster 4228 (www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm). Not great if you DVR much.

Most of my HD viewing is from the local stations. Before HD, I didn't watch much local stuff. I have an older HD reciever and as far as the (5) VOOM channels, I'm not impressed with the content. The HDNet channels are ok, but not great. TNTHD is great when there is actual HD content. ESPNHD is great when there are HD games on. I don't have HBO/Showtime,etc so I'll leave that to others.

My two cents worth.....


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

To the guy that lives in W. WA I don't understand why you are Dragon your a** on getting the 24" dish. As I have stated in other forums on the website the 24" will give a surface area of 25 to 30 % larger area than a dish 500 that is fully illuminated with a single I bracket mounted LNB. This is going to give you a much higher gain than you seem to be estimating. The LN-LNB is a lower noise LNB (ding ding that what LN stands for) that could also increase the gain to the system by several points (which may wind up near 3 db gain - that's double the gain) as you are stating. So by the time you get thru with this upgrade there would be much more gain than you are thinking. Seems like if you get it for nada because E* should do it to have a happy customer, then what the heck have you got to lose? As far as is HD worth it I have had HD now for around 5 years part of that time it was OTA only when I lived in Tacoma, WA. I can't imagine not watching HD. I watch SD when I can't get it in HD but really would like to see it in the best quality there is. HD is worth it all the way. Anyone that has to ask the question just doesn't have good enough vision to see and should be talking to a DR about new glasses.


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## daddy111178 (Oct 10, 2006)

it all depends on the tele


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## pinkey2u (Jan 21, 2006)

whatchel1 said:


> To the guy that lives in W. WA I don't understand why you are Dragon your a** on getting the 24" dish. As I have stated in other forums on the website the 24" will give a surface area of 25 to 30 % larger area than a dish 500 that is fully illuminated with a single I bracket mounted LNB. This is going to give you a much higher gain than you seem to be estimating. The LN-LNB is a lower noise LNB (ding ding that what LN stands for) that could also increase the gain to the system by several points (which may wind up near 3 db gain - that's double the gain) as you are stating. So by the time you get thru with this upgrade there would be much more gain than you are thinking. Seems like if you get it for nada because E* should do it to have a happy customer, then what the heck have you got to lose? As far as is HD worth it I have had HD now for around 5 years part of that time it was OTA only when I lived in Tacoma, WA. I can't imagine not watching HD. I watch SD when I can't get it in HD but really would like to see it in the best quality there is. HD is worth it all the way. Anyone that has to ask the question just doesn't have good enough vision to see and should be talking to a DR about new glasses.


I am the guy from western Washington...I guess you didn't read my post above!!! The reading I get right now from transponder 11 on the 129 satellite is 71...installers who are installing the 24" dish with the new "low noise-low noise blocker"...(yes, believe it or not most people do understand the lingo), have a reading of 80 on transponder 11. So as I stated as before...If I get the same reading of 80 then that is a gain of 9 points and I do not believe that will help my situation in the Puget Sound area with the Voom channels reception. I know of 2 people located in my area that do not have troubles with the 129 satellite and they both have the 1.2 meter dish and they both have a signal from the transponder 11 of around 98. What else I would say is that some of us people did have the Voom network as an extra when it was in operation as I did have Voom Sat service along with AT&T cable. Voom was never a problem like it has been through E* and it was HD to look at!!!


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## daddy111178 (Oct 10, 2006)

believe it or not but if there is anything on the stinger at any cable end it could give you problems. check all lnbs and make sure there is no corruption. also if the skew is off then you will have problems and make sure the mast is solid and plumb


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

pinkey2u said:


> I am the guy from western Washington...I guess you didn't read my post above!!! The reading I get right now from transponder 11 on the 129 satellite is 71...installers who are installing the 24" dish with the new "low noise-low noise blocker"...(yes, believe it or not most people do understand the lingo), have a reading of 80 on transponder 11. So as I stated as before...If I get the same reading of 80 then that is a gain of 9 points and I do not believe that will help my situation in the Puget Sound area with the Voom channels reception. I know of 2 people located in my area that do not have troubles with the 129 satellite and they both have the 1.2 meter dish and they both have a signal from the transponder 11 of around 98. What else I would say is that some of us people did have the Voom network as an extra when it was in operation as I did have Voom Sat service along with AT&T cable. Voom was never a problem like it has been through E* and it was HD to look at!!!


Have it done and then find out. BTW it isn't low noise blocker it is low noise block amplifier. They shouldn't have any reception problem w/ a 1.2 meter since that is a 4 ft dish and would have over 4 times the surface area as a D 300 and more than twice the area of a 24".


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

pinkey2u said:


> What else I would say is that some of us people did have the Voom network as an extra when it was in operation as I did have Voom Sat service along with AT&T cable. Voom was never a problem like it has been through E* and it was HD to look at!!!


If you had actual VOOM before you had to be recieving it from 61.5, right? I didn't think 61.5 would cover the PNW but I also don't think V* was on any other bird than the one they owned. E* operates that bird now so if you could get it before you should be able to add a second dish for 61.5 now and your problems should be solved - I must be missing something......


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## Mx_Rider (Jul 14, 2006)

The problem is with Dish's HD programming. It's the same material for a month. When I first got dish 2 months ago, HD was great. Now, not so much. I'm sick and tired of the HD programming and the only things I watch in HD now is football. When football season's over, goodbye HD for me. And to charge $105 for TV is outragous.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Mx_Rider said:


> The problem is with Dish's HD programming. It's the same material for a month. When I first got dish 2 months ago, HD was great. Now, not so much. I'm sick and tired of the HD programming and the only things I watch in HD now is football. When football season's over, goodbye HD for me. And to charge $105 for TV is outragous.


Another thing to really think about now!! MY head is spinning with all these choices.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Yesterday, I went to the Dish site to try and figure out what they offer for HD. Currently, I just subscribe to their begining 60 package, with locals.

Since they don't offer any of our local channels, there didn't seem to be much I'd be interested in. I don't watch any sports.

I'm not to sure how getting locals thru the 622 works for recording.

Guess I'm spolied now, I record everything I might be interested in watching, and just watch playback now.

So, I've started looking into recording local signals onto a computer. If there is some way to do that reliably, I can drop the locals from their feed.

Bob


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## mruk69 (Jul 26, 2003)

I don't think you need to have 129, the HD channels are mirrored on 61.5 and 148. If you put up a Dish at 148(Washington) you should be fine.
I get my HD's from 61.5 and a Dish 500.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Not all the new HD stuff is on 148... You can generally choose between 61.5 and 129 relatively equally with regards to the National HDs... with a few exceptions like East/West CBS and the Demo channel... but 148 won't get you all the current HD channels in the metallic packs.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

There are only 4 HDTV channels on 148. HD sats are 61.5 & 129.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

smackboy1 said:


> Thanks everybody for the advice.
> 
> Apparently I need a large directional antenna (violet code, 40 miles away). Sounds expensive. Is it worth trying to get OTA or should I just pull my locals from Dish? Is there any advantage to one over the other (I'll probably be using a ViP622).


Have you ever tried to pick up any of the analog signals? A rooftop antenna runs $30 to $100. If you end up with a 622 it might be worth trying, you will get an extra tuner to record local stuff from and you might have access to PBS, CW, mynetworktv(ok I know its sucks) in HD and there might be some sub channels that you would want.

I'd be happy with just locals in HD and HBO and Showtime in HD. I've had the old HD pack and 10 voom channels for a while now and I hardly watch those channels and probably wouldn't miss them very much.

As far as HD wearing off it hasn't for me, I won't watch a new show if its not in HD. If your tv has a tuner built in you've got to at least try an antenna.


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## chasby (Jan 9, 2006)

I can watch all the VOOM MPEG-2, Showtime HD, HBO HD, and the CBS NY-HD with my Dish 811, Sony HS-51A, and Carada 118" BW system. The technical quality of many of these stations is marvelous!!! 
Now if they could only inject a small amount of new content once in a while I could be very happy. 
I subscribe to an on-line HDTV magazine which provides an excellent daily HD schedule for my stations. Every morning (with a pencil and paper handy) I scroll through my HD offerings for the day and at least 95% of the time end up with a blank sheet of paper!!!!
I'll have to admit that at age 71, I try to spend my remaining hours on earth doing something other than sit and marvel at the picture quality of programming that I've seen many times before.
Without ESPNHD, HBOHD, SHOHD, and CBSNYHD, I would lose about 99% of my HD viewing.  
chasby


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

> I'm not to sure how getting locals thru the 622 works for recording.


It works just like any other recording. If you are using the OTA antenna feed, then to the DVR it is exactly like a sat feed. You will be able to use all your DVR functions. Where it gets really good is when you can get your locals from Dish as well, that is when you can record 3 (1 OTA, 2 Sat) network shows at one time.

As for getting tired of HD? Well each to their own. The Voom channels do tend to repeat their shows quite often during the month, but I always seem to find enough of a variety to find things to watch, I guess it all comes down to how often you watch.

Mostly I watch network shows (about 70 to 80% of the time) and having three network tuners in HD is invaluable to me.


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## smackboy1 (Oct 9, 2006)

OK, you've all convinced me to take the plunge. I've ordered a ViP622 and the HD Bronze Package. I guess if I don't like the HD package I can always just drop down to just HD locals and HBO HD for a mere $6/month.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

smackboy1 said:


> OK, you've all convinced me to take the plunge. I've ordered a ViP622 and the HD Bronze Package. I guess if I don't like the HD package I can always just drop down to just HD locals and HBO HD for a mere $6/month.


If you are leasing the 622, you have an 18 month programming committment.


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## smackboy1 (Oct 9, 2006)

Jim5506 said:


> If you are leasing the 622, you have an 18 month programming committment.


The account specialist I talked to said that there is an 18 month committment to only basic programming which means that as long as I maintain a basic programming package for 18 months e.g. Family Pak, I fulfill my my obligation. So I can drop all the HD channels anytime I want. I don't know whether this is the policy for only existing customers.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

smackboy1 said:


> I guess if I don't like the HD package I can always just drop down to just HD locals and HBO HD for a mere $6/month.


You would never be able to drop to just HD locals and HBO HD and keep a leased receiver. You could keep a basic programming package and have only what you listed "IN HD" for $6/month. But the way you wrote that, it made it sound like you were dropping all programming to get just that, not that you would drop from HD Bronze to an AT xx or DishFamily. You can drop to DishFamily during the 18 months, but even after 18 months, you'd have to keep that as a minimum.


Programming. If a Receiver is being provided to you under this Agreement (i.e., under the DISH'n It Up promotion), a minimum programming
package of DishFAMILY, America's Top 60, DishLATINO, or Great Wall TV Package is required at all times.​


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Also... you only get HBOHD if you subscribe to HBO OR have the Platinum package... either of which costs more than $6!


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