# A few 721 Quirks



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I have been playing around with the 721 and I have a found a few things that could use some polishing up. Thought I would through them out so that others are aware of them while deciding to purchase a 721. These are not huge issues but something to be aware of.

1) Font Size is smaller than the 50x series. If you have bad eye site you might want to think about making the jump. For me this is nice because it provides more GUIDE info but for older people with poor eyesight this might be a show stopper. 

2) Swapping tuner requires too many steps. There is a swap button on the remote but to switch tuners you have to first bring up PIP, press the swap key and then press PIP twice to remove the PIP window. It would have been nice to just hit the swap key. 

3) Favorites configuration screen is not color coded so you don't know what channels you have access to and which ones you dont. 

4) If they have no plans on offering the internet on this box they should remove the menu option. 

5) On my TV, the screen gets clipped. I have a 14 yr old Mits so that might be the reason. 

6) Slow-Mo reverse sucks. It is very choppy. Slo-Mo Forward looks fine. Actually seems better than what I remember the 508 having. 

Some welcome features. 

1) 90 hrs of recording. My 508 only had 50. 
2) Two Tuners. 
3) Themes filter for recorded events. 
6) Looks cooler than the 508. 
7) Info Automatically displayed on the EPG. 
8) So far no lock ups. (Knock on wood)


I am sure there is more.. I will update this if I find more nuggets from an old 508 user. At $299, going from the 508 to the 721 was worth running the extra line myself.


----------



## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

WeeJavaDude said:


> I am sure there is more.. I will update this if I find more nuggets from an old 508 user. At $299, going from the 508 to the 721 was worth running the extra line myself.


Do all the features on your "Dish Home" work with your 721? When I first activated my 721 they all worked. Now my instant weather feature doesn't work. It did initially because I set it up for my local forecast. Now when I select "Instant Weather", a message comes up which says, " This feature coming soon". The only way I can get the local forecast is by using the 9500 channel. This "Accu Weather" feature does not have any locals that are close to my location as the "Instant Weather" feature did. Does instant weather work on your 721?
!pride


----------



## Doug E (Jul 6, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> Well I have been playing around with the 721 and I have a found a few things that could use some polishing up. Thought I would through them out so that others are aware of them while deciding to purchase a 721. These are not huge issues but something to be aware of.
> 
> 1) Font Size is smaller than the 50x series. If you have bad eye site you might want to think about making the jump. For me this is nice because it provides more GUIDE info but for older people with poor eyesight this might be a show stopper.
> 
> ...


Not sure if this corrects what your criticism is, but to initiate and close PinP, push the red DISH logo button (bottom right side)...once for the small picture, once again to enlarge it, once more to close it. This also begins the buffer for the second tuner.


----------



## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Doug E said:


> Not sure if this corrects what your criticism is, but to initiate and close PinP, push the red DISH logo button (bottom right side)...once for the small picture, once again to enlarge it, once more to close it. This also begins the buffer for the second tuner.


Doug,
Are you talking about the red button with the signal looking icon on it? When I pressed this button a small TV icon appeared in the lower right corner of my screen. What does that reresent? !pride


----------



## Doug E (Jul 6, 2002)

Yes, that is the button. The icon you see indicates that the channel in the PIP window is buffering (a new feature of the updated software).


----------



## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Doug E said:


> Yes, that is the button. The icon you see indicates that the channel in the PIP window is buffering (a new feature of the updated software).


Doug, 
Thanks. I'll have to check it out when I get home. Sounds like a great feature.
I really hope that feature will be added to the 921 in the future. Did you see my post in this thread about the instant weather feature? Dish CSR's don't have an answer. Any info would be appreciated. !pride


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Eagles said:


> Do all the features on your "Dish Home" work with your 721? When I first activated my 721 they all worked. Now my instant weather feature doesn't work. It did initially because I set it up for my local forecast. Now when I select "Instant Weather", a message comes up which says, " This feature coming soon". The only way I can get the local forecast is by using the 9500 channel. This "Accu Weather" feature does not have any locals that are close to my location as the "Instant Weather" feature did. Does instant weather work on your 721?
> !pride


How do you access Instant Weather. I will give it a try. I know I can through Dish Home but I only tried it once. IS there a button on the remote to do this or a channel to jump to?


----------



## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

WeeJavaDude said:


> How do you access Instant Weather. I will give it a try. I know I can through Dish Home but I only tried it once. IS there a button on the remote to do this or a channel to jump to?


Yes, the button that says DISH. It's clearish in color with red lettering. I think it's to the left of the PVR button. !pride


----------



## Doug E (Jul 6, 2002)

Eagles said:


> Doug,
> Thanks. I'll have to check it out when I get home. Sounds like a great feature.
> I really hope that feature will be added to the 921 in the future. Did you see my post in this thread about the instant weather feature? Dish CSR's don't have an answer. Any info would be appreciated. !pride


I have not used the Instant weather.....guess I should see if it works on mine. I will let you know when I have a chance to check it out, Doug


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Doug E said:


> Not sure if this corrects what your criticism is, but to initiate and close PinP, push the red DISH logo button (bottom right side)...once for the small picture, once again to enlarge it, once more to close it. This also begins the buffer for the second tuner.


Actually it does not. This sounds like the same procedure as the standard PIP expect for another button. I actually feel that the swap button when pressed should swap Tuners even if PIP is not being displayed. That is my opinion.

So how does the second tuner buffer feature work and how do you dump the contents of the buffer into a Recorded event for later viewing. I recall reading this is possible, but I tried it last night and could not make it happen.


----------



## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

1) Font Size is smaller than the 50x series. If you have bad eye site you might want to think about making the jump. For me this is nice because it provides more GUIDE info but for older people with poor eyesight this might be a show stopper. 
That will be welcome for me. The fonts on the 811/510 are huge and clunky. Reminds me of DOS in CGA mode.

2) Swapping tuner requires too many steps. There is a swap button on the remote but to switch tuners you have to first bring up PIP, press the swap key and then press PIP twice to remove the PIP window. It would have been nice to just hit the swap key. 
This sounds like something for the "wtf were they thinking" bin.

3) Favorites configuration screen is not color coded so you don't know what channels you have access to and which ones you dont. 
That's the result of having different development teams, and no unified platform standards. It's as if they don't even know what the other teams are doing.

4) If they have no plans on offering the internet on this box they should remove the menu option. 
See #'s 2 and 3 above.

5) On my TV, the screen gets clipped. I have a 14 yr old Mits so that might be the reason. 
14 is a difficult age.

6) Slow-Mo reverse sucks. It is very choppy. Slo-Mo Forward looks fine. Actually seems better than what I remember the 508 having. 
A bug I don't care aboout! Woohoo!

1) 90 hrs of recording. My 508 only had 50. 
That might be a step down from my 510.
2) Two Tuners. 
Too true for tuning two 'toons (or two tunes, too!)
3) Themes filter for recorded events. 
But the Theme is the best part of "Friends"!
6) Looks cooler than the 508. 
The 721 and 522 are the nicest looking sat boxes, other than the Sony D boxes. The 50x series is kinda ugly. The 811 isn't really all that good looking either, without a couple of cocktails first.
7) Info Automatically displayed on the EPG. 
SHWEEEEEEEEET.
8) So far no lock ups. (Knock on wood) 
Now you've jinxed it. You're gonna have to reboot that thing hourly, now.


----------



## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

WeeJavaDude said:


> 3) Favorites configuration screen is not color coded so you don't know what channels you have access to and which ones you dont.


Of the things you mentioned, this is probably the biggest problem for me. When I take my contacts out at night I'm all but blind so the color coding of my 501 let me know which favorite it was on without having to get out of bed (yes, I'm lazy like that). I always change the Favorite to the Kids channels one so if the little ones get up before my wife, they won't be watching HBO.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

kmcnamara said:


> Of the things you mentioned, this is probably the biggest problem for me. When I take my contacts out at night I'm all but blind so the color coding of my 501 let me know which favorite it was on without having to get out of bed (yes, I'm lazy like that). I always change the Favorite to the Kids channels one so if the little ones get up before my wife, they won't be watching HBO.


Well I was actually referring to the Step where you configure what channels you want to be included in the favorites, but you are right. It is harder to see what favorites you have selected on the 721 EPG. It seems hidden where it is at. Bigger text and color coding would help here.


----------



## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

Not sure if this has been mentioned but if you have the buffer on for the 2nd tuner with the tv in the corner, then you can just hit swap to change tuners.

Also for the person stating that instant weather did not work, you have a much better option on the 721 called weather. Go to the menu, choose interactive, and choose weather. Now that's instant!


----------



## Mark S. (May 14, 2004)

WeeJavaDude said:


> Actually it does not. This sounds like the same procedure as the standard PIP expect for another button. I actually feel that the swap button when pressed should swap Tuners even if PIP is not being displayed. That is my opinion.
> 
> So how does the second tuner buffer feature work and how do you dump the contents of the buffer into a Recorded event for later viewing. I recall reading this is possible, but I tried it last night and could not make it happen.


WJD....Actually it does.

If you use the Red button to the right of the Dish interactive button to activate the PIP window instead of the small blue PIP button, you have actually activated a buffer on the second tuner. Hit it once for small PIP window, twice for larger, third press and the window goes away but a small TV icon appears in the window's place (This icon can also be moved just like the PIP window using the position button). Once you have this icon or a PIP window active using the red button, you can now swap back and forth between the two tuners by simply hitting the swap button. Swapping tuners with the small icon up on the screen does not loose the buffer on the second tuner meaning theoretically, you could leave two channels you were swapping back and forth between buffered without a PIP window showing, each for up to two hours, provided you left each of them on the station selected without changing channels.

Now you decide after you swap back to the buffered tuner you weren't watching that you want to record the show. Simply rewind back as far as you need to (up to the two hours allowed by the buffer) to get all of the show or program you want to record, hit the record button and select how you want the 721 to handle recording the event. (Manual stop, End of Show, Extend time after end of show).

Pretty simple I guess, I hope my explanation is clear for anyone who is not familiar with this function on the 721 using the Red PIP buffer button.

The nice thing about this is you can actually watch two shows at once, kind of sort of, watching one and then rewinding in the buffer on the other and skipping through the commercials without actually having to record it. Just another use for it.

As mentioned earlier...I really do hope they implement this functionality on the 921 unit. I think this is one of the best features on the 721. JMO.

Thanks,


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> ...
> 
> 5) On my TV, the screen gets clipped. I have a 14 yr old Mits so that might be the reason.
> 
> 6) Slow-Mo reverse sucks. It is very choppy. Slo-Mo Forward looks fine. Actually seems better than what I remember the 508 having...


Your memory may be very selective. If you disregard accuracy, the 501 and 508 slo-mo fwd works pretty equally well to that in the 721. The 721 has a huge flaw connected with slo-mo, however, which is that once you access it, it jumps forward 3 seconds before starting. The only way to actually use it is to jump back, anticipate three seconds ahead of where you would actually like it to begin, start it, wait another 2 seconds for the hugely obnoxious time bar to disappear, and then pay for your innacuracy in anticipating the 3 seconds incorrectly by either waiting the equivalent of the error times 15, or start all over again because you guessed too late and missed what you were trying to slo-mo altogether. It's like trying to eat soup with a fork, and is the lamest slo-mo ever on the planet.

If you DO take accuracy into account, the 50x slo-mo runs rings around the 721 slo-mo. The reverse slo-mo issue, while aggravated on the 721, is pretty lame on all PVRs. Long MPEG GOP structures are not conducive to reverse slo-mo, unfortunately, and that's why it is choppy...all you get are the I-frames.

One feature the 721 has which might be unique, and might help your Mitsu with the wacky overscan, is that there is a menu command for centering the image. It might at least minimize the issue for you.


----------



## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> 5) On my TV, the screen gets clipped. I have a 14 yr old Mits so that might be the reason.


If you haven't already, select the following from your remote:

Menu => 4 Preferences => 2 View Preferences => More => Screen Position where you now have some control with regards to moving the screen up, down, left, or right to correct slight overscan issues. Not sure how severe your clipping is. If its not too bad, you can compensate for it here pretty easily.

Some other quirks you didn't touch on yet:

Still noticing audio dropouts which seem to kick in just seconds after playing back recorded events pretty frequently on my 721. I'm not even talking Dolby Digital audio through an optical out. Just your average tv audio dropouts where it doesn't seem to sync up properly just moments after you hit play. Notice it pretty often on G4 recorded events.

NHL Center Ice problems where you temporarily can't view the guide properly no matter what you do. I used to hit guide before gametime to see what was on and what channels and sometimes it would only display the channels which immediately came after the ones reserved for Center Ice. Sometimes I would go in and select a game on Center Ice which was playing live and it would tune me right to the first channel in the NBA package for whatever reason. Lots and lots of issues with PIP when watching two games at once the moment a game ends to the point of frequent lockups and reboots. Not good at all if you were watching one game in OT and it takes a good 3 or 4 minutes to reboot in which case you often miss the game winner. Problems with random error messages telling you the game you want to watch is being blacked out on your 2nd tuner even though it was fine moments before it when you were channel surfing through all the different live games. I really don't think Dish has done a good job at all in terms of getting the 721 ready for primetime when it comes to their sports packages. It seems to want to slam the doors shut on you as though its detecting someone trying to illegally tune in the games without legitimately paying for them imo.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

TomCat said:


> Your memory may be very selective. If you disregard accuracy, the 501 and 508 slo-mo fwd works pretty equally well to that in the 721. The 721 has a huge flaw connected with slo-mo, however, which is that once you access it, it jumps forward 3 seconds before starting. The only way to actually use it is to jump back, anticipate three seconds ahead of where you would actually like it to begin, start it, wait another 2 seconds for the hugely obnoxious time bar to disappear, and then pay for your innacuracy in anticipating the 3 seconds incorrectly by either waiting the equivalent of the error times 15, or start all over again because you guessed too late and missed what you were trying to slo-mo altogether. It's like trying to eat soup with a fork, and is the lamest slo-mo ever on the planet.


Not selective, just bad.  I was only given it a spin and not trying to do anything of accuracy. I will have to take a look at it a bit closer. I was mainly looking at the motion and clariety and seem to remember the 508 being a bit less clear on slo-mo. Could be the fact I used my 508 on compiste and the 721 on svideo.



TomCat said:


> If you DO take accuracy into account, the 50x slo-mo runs rings around the 721 slo-mo. The reverse slo-mo issue, while aggravated on the 721, is pretty lame on all PVRs. Long MPEG GOP structures are not conducive to reverse slo-mo, unfortunately, and that's why it is choppy...all you get are the I-frames.


Acutally never used reverse slo-mo that often and figured it was related to the I-frame issue.



TomCat said:


> One feature the 721 has which might be unique, and might help your Mitsu with the wacky overscan, is that there is a menu command for centering the image. It might at least minimize the issue for you.


Yes I have tried this and it minimizes the issue but then all the dialogs are skewed and so are the banners. Just need to get a new TV.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

The wife brought something up last night. When you go to a recorded show and watch it . Pressing Stop takes you back to the list and not the recorded show screen. This is different behavior than the 508 and wrong behavior in my opinion. IF you press stop, the most likely operation you are going to perform is either erase the program or possible start over or continue it. Going back to the main PVR screen to me is usability bug. 

I did look at the Slow Mo and it does jump when when first started. I did not see if it was exactly 3 seconds but it did seem to indicate that. This is rather annoying. Going have to play with the 508 down stairs to see how bad my memory is. 

Another thing I noticed, When you have a buffer and you go to view a recorded show and then stop the show and return to the live show the buffer is cleared. I am not sure if this is the case with the 508 because I never really payed attention, but I expected the show to continue buffering. Basically if you have a tuner selected and then go to view a recorded show thinking you can go back to the show you were watching you will find the buffer empty.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> The wife brought something up last night. When you go to a recorded show and watch it . Pressing Stop takes you back to the list and not the recorded show screen. This is different behavior than the 508 and wrong behavior in my opinion. IF you press stop, the most likely operation you are going to perform is either erase the program or possible start over or continue it. Going back to the main PVR screen to me is usability bug.


That's weird that this happens to you because I don't get this. When I press Stop while watching a recorded show, it does take me back to the recorded show screen.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

dbronstein said:


> That's weird that this happens to you because I don't get this. When I press Stop while watching a recorded show, it does take me back to the recorded show screen.


Maybe I was not clear here. Pressing stop takes you back to the list of recorded shows. Not back to the screen of the show you were currently watching. The one with the buttons that allows you to delete the show, start over, etc. What I was saying that pressing stop should take you back to the operations of the current program you are watching not the list of recorded shows. Is this clearer?


----------



## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> Maybe I was not clear here. Pressing stop takes you back to the list of recorded shows. Not back to the screen of the show you were currently watching. The one with the buttons that allows you to delete the show, start over, etc. What I was saying that pressing stop should take you back to the operations of the current program you are watching not the list of recorded shows. Is this clearer?


You were clear, but I don't see the same screen you mentioned with my 721 (same as dbronstein reported). The moment I press stop during playback of a recorded event I get the following PVR Event screen options which is just how I remember the 501 operating:

Resume
Erase
Start Over
Unprotect
Cancel
Help

What is your software rev currently? Is your receiver running L171________ ???? That is odd that your 721 does this.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Eagles said:


> Do all the features on your "Dish Home" work with your 721? When I first activated my 721 they all worked. Now my instant weather feature doesn't work. It did initially because I set it up for my local forecast. Now when I select "Instant Weather", a message comes up which says, " This feature coming soon". The only way I can get the local forecast is by using the 9500 channel. This "Accu Weather" feature does not have any locals that are close to my location as the "Instant Weather" feature did. Does instant weather work on your 721?
> !pride


Actually Mine does the same thing as yours. It did work the first time I tried and not does not work at all. Same message you get


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Unthinkable said:


> You were clear, but I don't see the same screen you mentioned with my 721 (same as dbronstein reported). The moment I press stop during playback of a recorded event I get the following PVR Event screen options which is just how I remember the 501 operating:
> 
> Resume
> Erase
> ...


Odd indeed... I did a reboot and tried and it know works as you describe. Very odd indeed. I will post again if it come back. Maybe just needed a rebot after the upgrade.


----------



## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> Odd indeed... I did a reboot and tried and it know works as you describe. Very odd indeed. I will post again if it come back. Maybe just needed a rebot after the upgrade.


The last software update Dish spooled seemed to not want to take effect immediately for a lot of folks. I know my receiver rebooted several times in a row afterwards trying to update itself properly. Not necessarily a smooth upgrade from what others reported.


----------



## goughl (Jul 18, 2003)

Unthinkable said:


> The last software update Dish spooled seemed to not want to take effect immediately for a lot of folks. I know my receiver rebooted several times in a row afterwards trying to update itself properly. Not necessarily a smooth upgrade from what others reported.


I had the same problem, here but all seems to be OK now.


----------

