# DIRECTV Satellite Discussion SKYM-1 (Ku-79W) @79W



## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Not certain where to put this But STA for KU 79W

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SATSTA2015041500024&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number

STA for testing at 77.5 ~ 5/30/2015 IOT x 2 weeks, drift to 78.8 about 6/17/2015

Doctor j


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yeah,

As I was several years ago, still trying to figure this issue out. According to Lyngsat SKY Mexico's service is currently from IS-21 at 58W. Yet these new generation of satellites, KU-79W (SKYMex-1) and it's future partner KU-76W on the other thread, will be positioned at 79W and 76W nom. respectively as their names indicate.

Is there to be a new multi-sat dish for SKY Mex. subs. aimed at 76-79W?

Or will the current 33" x 30" single linear LNBF be repointed to 79W with a new dish or perhaps a 76W LNBF retrofit be added later to the old dish when KU-76W joins the fleet?

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Aerospace and defense firm Orbital ATK delivers SKYM-1 (KU-79W) to launch site in French Kourou, and is complimented by DIRECTV for completion of the satellite in only 20 months. Some 4 months ahead of its expected schedule.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150417005427/en/Orbital-ATK-Delivers-DIRECTV's-SKYM-1-Commercial-Satellite#.VTEX7Bnn9zQ

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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Looks Like Directv or Sky Mexico or someone is in a hurry to get 79W operational
Grant today to Deploy Intelsat 16 to 79 w till Directv KU-79 operational.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SATMOD2015010500003&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number

Doctor j


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Well ... without a correspondent down there to describe the current reception equipment, its hard to fully understand whats going on.

Are SKY Mex. subs going to begin transitioning from 58W to 79W using IS16 in the interim for around the 2 to 3 months until SKYM-1 arrives?

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

DIRECTV requests 30 day STA for TT&C of KU-79W (SKYM-1) during IOT at 77.5W and migration to it's operational slot at 79W nom. (78.8W specifically) using it's Winchester, VA. (ECUF) Ku band earth station E150029.

Note, there is an error in the STA stating 103W as the operational slot for KU-79W.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SESSTAINTR201500728&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number

DIRECTV requests 30 day STA for TT&C of KU79W during IOT and migration using it's Ku band earth station E150117 near Tucson, AZ., (SWUF).

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SESSTAINTR201500730&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

It's spelled Tucson.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

bobnielsen said:


> It's spelled Tucson.


Corrected, thanks.... 

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

What is this satellite being used for? I assumed it was for DTV LA only, but Gary just posted footprint maps and there is a full US CONUS footprint?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> What is this satellite being used for? I assumed it was for DTV LA only, but Gary just posted footprint maps and there is a full US CONUS footprint?


For SKY Mexico;

DIRECTV's partnership with Innova to provide DTH sat. service to primarily Mexico, as well as Central America, and parts of the Caribbean.

Not sure where the CONUS beam for KU-79W (SKYM-1) Gary recently posted in the interactive beam footprint thread came from. The most recent Schedule S I found on file for KU-79W only has Ku band H/V linear pol. downlink beams for Mexico, CA, and the Caribe (called beams "TKH" and "TKV").

And RDBS band R/L pol. downlink beams for Mexico only (called beams "TBR" and "TBL").

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

DIRECTV files LOA for the RDBS band payload aboard KU-79W (SKYM-1).

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SATLOA2015042800031&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number

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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Thought I post Initial GTO for Sky Mexico 1

















Doctor j


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> What is this satellite being used for? I assumed it was for DTV LA only, but Gary just posted footprint maps and there is a full US CONUS footprint?


Here's the link to the discussion on this issue, which took place in the 'Beam Footprints' thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/184044-interactive-beam-footprint-library-update-4172015/page-7#entry3358339


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Sky Mexico 1 has also been raised to it's intermediate orbit.









Doctor j


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

A little behind Directv 15 but moving up

10 SKY MEXICO-1_7
Lon 19.6796° E
Lat 0.2228° S
Alt (km) 16 171.620
Azm 80.9°
Elv -28.2°
RA 15h 42m 45s
Decl -8° 18' 17"
Range (km) 24 855.914
RRt (km/s) 0.893
Vel (km/s) 4.796
Direction Descending
Eclipse No
MA (phase) 6.6° (5)
TA 13.0°
Orbit # 10

Name 0 SKY MEXICO-1_7
NORAD # 40664
COSPAR designator 2015-026-B 
Epoch (UTC) 2015-06-01 17:16:16
Orbit # at Epoch 9
Inclination 0.920
RA of A. Node 30.766
Eccentricity 0.3048042
Argument of Perigee 180.226
Revs per day 1.49757044
Period 16h 01m 33s (961.55 min)
Semi-major axis 32 271 km
*Perigee x Apogee 16 056 x 35 729 km*
BStar (drag term) 0.000000000 1/ER
Mean anomaly 284.324
Propagation model SDP4
Element number / age 999 / 0 day(s)
StdMag (MaxMag) / RCS N/A
Diameters N/A
Satellite group N/A









Doctor j


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

doctor j said:


> A little behind Directv 15 but moving up
> 
> ...


This line happened to bring _The Jefferson's_ opening song to mind: ♫Moving on, up. To the East Side...♫

Thanks, Dr. for your regular doses of awesome.

Peace,
Tom


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Getting there.

10 SKY MEXICO-1_9
Lon 36.9233° W
Lat 0.2263° N
Alt (km) 32 827.330
Azm 114.7°
Elv 24.2°
RA 07h 34m 33s
Decl -5° 17' 16"
Range (km) 36 161.535
RRt (km/s) -0.249
Vel (km/s) 3.163
Direction Descending
Eclipse No
MA (phase) 265.4° (188)
TA 255.2°
Orbit # 22

Name 0 SKY MEXICO-1_9
NORAD # 40664
COSPAR designator 2015-026-B 
Epoch (UTC) 2015-06-03 11:04:02
Orbit # at Epoch 12
Inclination 0.206
RA of A. Node 26.147
Eccentricity 0.0913453
Argument of Perigee 185.762
Revs per day 1.14523040
Period 20h 57m 23s (1257.38 min)
Semi-major axis 38 590 km
*Perigee x Apogee 28 687 x 35 737 km*
BStar (drag term) 0.000000000 1/ER
Mean anomaly 66.228
Propagation model SDP4
Element number / age 999 / 0 day(s)









Doctor j


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

What's a schedule of the sat? IOT position ?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> What's a schedule of the sat? IOT position ?


IOT destination is 77.5W.

As for the schedule, like with D15's filings it's based on the original 5/20 launch date. So you'll have to guess-timate how the actual 7 day delay in the launch will modify it beyond the dates given in the following.

From the 4/15 STA for KU -79W:

-After launch and orbit raising maneuvers, DIRECTV KU-79W will be located 
at 77.5° W.L. [no earlier than about May 30, 2015].

-After DIRECTV KU-79W reaches 77.5° W.L., DIRECTV will then 
commence IOT of the satellite for approximately 2 weeks.

-After IOT is completed, DIRECTV KU-79W will then be drifted to its 
assigned location at 78.8º W.L. (nominal) over the course of approximately 3 
to 5 days [reaching that orbital position on or about June 17, 2015].

Note: Of course in the last statement here it should read something like "... assigned location at 79 W.L. nominal and 78.8 W.L. exact."

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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Thank you, HoTat2.


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Close to Geostationary Orbit. Near testing slot 77.5 W

10 SKY MEXICO-1_15
Lon 76.5914° W
Lat 0.0052° N
Alt (km) 35 737.050
Azm 161.9°
Elv 49.5°
RA 03h 17m 39s
Decl -5° 24' 15"
Range (km) 37 054.544
RRt (km/s) 0.001
Vel (km/s) 3.076
Direction Descending
Eclipse No
MA (phase) 151.8° (108)
TA 151.9°
Orbit # 17

Name 0 SKY MEXICO-1_15
NORAD # 40664
COSPAR designator 2015-026-B 
Epoch (UTC) 2015-06-06 10:50:20
Orbit # at Epoch 15
Inclination 0.053
RA of A. Node 212.351
Eccentricity 0.0006608
Argument of Perigee 43.709
Revs per day 1.00535728
Period 23h 52m 19s (1432.32 min)
Semi-major axis 42 091 km
Perigee x Apogee 35 685 x 35 741 km
BStar (drag term) 0.000000000 1/ER
Mean anomaly 82.367
Propagation model SDP4
Element number / age 999 / 2 day(s)
StdMag (MaxMag) / RCS N/A
Diameters N/A
Satellite group N/A









Doctor j


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

PARKED !

10 SKY MEXICO-1_20
*Lon 77.4965° W*
Lat 0.0040° N
Alt (km) 35 785.630
Azm 163.5°
Elv 49.8°
RA 03h 28m 05s
Decl -5° 24' 03"
Range (km) 37 086.774
RRt (km/s) 0.000
Vel (km/s) 3.075
Direction Descending
Eclipse No
MA (phase) 27.1° (19)
TA 27.1°
Orbit # 21
Name 0 SKY MEXICO-1_20
NORAD # 40664
COSPAR designator 2015-026-B 
Epoch (UTC) 2015-06-11 03:22:07
Orbit # at Epoch 20
Inclination 0.045
RA of A. Node 208.762
Eccentricity 0.0000110
Argument of Perigee 174.798
Revs per day 1.00272075
Period 23h 56m 05s (1436.8 min)
Semi-major axis 42 165 km
*Perigee x Apogee 35 786 x 35 787 km*
BStar (drag term) 0.000000000 1/ER
Mean anomaly 208.632
Propagation model SDP4
Element number / age 999 / 0 day(s)
StdMag (MaxMag) / RCS N/A
Diameters N/A
Satellite group N/A

Doctor j


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

fire up spectrum analyzers !


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> fire up spectrum analyzers !


Unless the Ku downlink beam will reach far enough north of the border to pick it up., it will have to be those with SAs down south. 

As this bird's d/l beams are aimed at Mexico, Central America, and parts of the Caribbean.

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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

sometimes it possible to get signals from CA or south part of it


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> sometimes it possible to get signals from CA or south part of it


Yeah possible;

Just don't know how far or well this new satellite will extend north of the border.

In fact I'm still puzzled by this whole thing. SKY Mexico is (was?) currently served from 58W, presently on IS21 according to Lyngsat.

Yet there is now a new SKY Mex. service at 79W currently being broadcast by IS16 on an interim basis until SKYM-1 becomes operational there. But I only see single LNBF dishes for SKY Mex.

How is this supposed to work? Is 58W being phased out and all SKY Mex. subs. eventually to have thier dishes' repointed to 79W?

Info. on this is hard to come by. But then again I realize it's really not for us here in the US to know about I guess as other than academic interest.

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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

I believe it's drifting to position

10 SKY MEXICO-1_28
*Lon 79.3696° W*
Lat 0.0359° S
Alt (km) 35 811.730
Azm 166.7°
Elv 50.2°
RA 07h 02m 15s
Decl -5° 26' 47"
Range (km) 37 086.708
RRt (km/s) 0.000
Vel (km/s) 3.074
Direction Descending
Eclipse No
MA (phase) 286.6° (203)
TA 286.6°
Orbit # 32

Name 0 SKY MEXICO-1_28
NORAD # 40664
COSPAR designator 2015-026-B 
Epoch (UTC) 2015-06-22 06:43:04
Orbit # at Epoch 31
Inclination 0.058
RA of A. Node 202.194
Eccentricity 0.0001218
Argument of Perigee 335.702
Revs per day 1.00175639
Period 23h 57m 28s (1437.47 min)
Semi-major axis 42 192 km
*Perigee x Apogee 35 808 x 35 819 km*
BStar (drag term) 0.000000000 1/ER
Mean anomaly 114.162
Propagation model SDP4
Element number / age 999 / 1 day(s)

On station at 78.8

Doctor j


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yep, 

Not like it has far to go ... 

Only 77.5W to 78.8W ...

Short stint for the interim IS16 soon to end there I guess.

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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Is this satellite going to do IOT at its assigned position? Is the 99-103 arc to crowded to do IOT? Question, questions.


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> Is this satellite going to do IOT at its assigned position? Is the 99-103 arc to crowded to do IOT? Question, questions.


I think its IOT is done. Was to be at 77.5 for testing and permanent position is 78.8

No recent TLE
Most recent TLE projection has it past its spot.
I think its on station and Data has caught up yet

Doctor j


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Curious to me again that SKYMEX1 should be on station but NO TLE in 3 days!!
Just sayin

Doctor j


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

it's DTV's typical suspense pause .... no TLEs and bum ! the sat is on its place


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

TLE 3 1/2 days later seems to show PARKED in 78.8w position

For those following D15 I expect similar "blackouts"

as movement occurs
10 SKY MEXICO-1_30
Lon 78.8046° W
Lat 0.0091° N
Alt (km) 35 780.470
Azm 165.7°
Elv 50.1°
RA 04h 43m 09s
Decl -5° 23' 56"
Range (km) 37 060.486
RRt (km/s) 0.000
Vel (km/s) 3.075
Direction Descending
Eclipse No
MA (phase) 316.8° (224)
TA 316.7°
Orbit # 35

Name 0 SKY MEXICO-1_30
NORAD # 40664
COSPAR designator 2015-026-B 
Epoch (UTC) 2015-06-25 19:47:52
Orbit # at Epoch 35
Inclination 0.041
RA of A. Node 235.522
Eccentricity 0.0001652
Argument of Perigee 237.378
Revs per day 1.00273872
Period 23h 56m 04s (1436.7 min)
Semi-major axis 42 164 km
Perigee x Apogee 35 779 x 35 793 km
BStar (drag term) 0.000000000 1/ER
Mean anomaly 18.906
Propagation model SDP4
Element number / age 999 / 0 day(s)
StdMag (MaxMag) / RCS N/A
Diameters N/A
Satellite group N/A

Doctor j


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

time to lite it up.. show the channels


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Bond released on KU-79w

http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2015/db0731/DA-15-877A1.pdf

Doctor j


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

doctor j said:


> Bond released on KU-79w
> 
> http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2015/db0731/DA-15-877A1.pdf
> 
> Doctor j


Does this mean that KU-79w is now considered active?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Only after official statement.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

lwilli201 said:


> Does this mean that KU-79w is now considered active?


At least to the satisfaction of the FCC.

It might not be considered fully active as far as customers' point of view yet. We'll likely see an announcement, as P. Smith suggests, when it is fully operational.

Peace,
Tom


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there are no SKYMex correspondants or subscribers on this forum that can help explain how this service works in the area of subscriber equipment and so forth ...

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## hellier (Aug 17, 2015)

Hi, im from Mexico, sky its going to use both satellites 58w and 79w. On 58w they're going to put sd channels and the new one just for HDs (like the 129w)


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

hellier said:


> Hi, im from Mexico, sky its going to use both satellites 58w and 79w. On 58w they're going to put sd channels and the new one just for HDs (like the 129w)


Hey thanks, and welcome to the forum;

Finally someone who can help explain how the SKYMex service works.

So is there a new twin LNB and perhaps dish reflector for receiving both 58 and 79W?

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## egakagoc2xi (Jul 1, 2010)

Information from Network54.com 


































































https://vid.me/iSYv


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Thanks for posting this, but aren't the LNBs and dish pictured actually for the Shaw Direct satellite service in Canada at 107.3 and 111.1W not the SKYMex one at 58.1 and 78.8W?

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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HoTat2 said:


> Thanks for posting this, but aren't the LNBs and dish pictured actually for the Shaw Direct satellite service in Canada at 107.3 and 111.1W not the SKYMex one at 58.1 and 78.8W?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


that's right, the block have lnbfs are to close to pick two sats 20° apart!


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

The dish tilt in the photo is also the wrong way and the elevation much too low as well for SKY Mexico from locations in Mexico, LATAM, and parts of the Caribbean.

You can tell that dish location is somewhere up in east or northeast Canada aimed at 107 and 111.1W for the Shaw Direct service.

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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

We done with the fake dish and LNBF !

Give us a picture of REAL one !!!


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## Ivanem23 (Aug 25, 2015)

Hello left antenna sky 78 ° next you can see which points to 58










Video: https://vid.me/iSYv


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Ivanem23 said:


> Hello left antenna sky 78 ° next you can see which points to 58
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aw... finally we get a look at it. A two dish solution I see. Thanks ... 

Certainly not the most convenient method instead of a single dish twin LNBF one, but perhaps is only temporary until a single dish solution is available.

I take it the LNBF on the new HD dish is a standard 11.7-12.2 GHz linear one without any R-band capabilty for now at least.

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## Ivanem23 (Aug 25, 2015)

Sky at this migrating everything for skymx-1 all this is happening first in Mexico City customers who want the new channel package must call for the change of antenna which will see new HD and SD channels. The postedas images are courtesy of network54.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Ivanem23 said:


> Sky at this migrating everything for skymx-1 all this is happening first in Mexico City customers who want the new channel package must call for the change of antenna which will see new HD and SD channels. The postedas images are courtesy of network54.


Oh ... so it really isn't a two dish solution as 58W is eventually going away?

All HD and SD is being migrated over to SKYMex-1 at 79W?

I also see that the new reflector is elliptical which I suppose will allow for a new twin LNBF to be swapped in when the future KU-76W (SKYMex-2?) is deployed at 76W.

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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would imagine twin lnbf for 79 @ 76W, no way to make one reflector's dish for two sats 20° apart!


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> I would imagine twin lnbf for 79 @ 76W, no way to make one reflector's dish for two sats 20° apart!


Yeah that's what I meant ...

In fact a future linear twin LNBF for receiving from 76 and 79W could be very similar in design to the Shaw Direct ones pictured earlier.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

P Smith said:


> I would imagine twin lnbf for 79 @ 76W, no way to make one reflector's dish for two sats 20° apart!


The Slimline with 5LNB receives 99/101/103/110/119 - that's a 20* spread between 99 and 119...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's more likely 101-110-119, eg 18°.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

P Smith said:


> It's more likely 101-110-119, eg 18°.


No, it also receives 99 & 103, so it is a full 20*.


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## Ivanem23 (Aug 25, 2015)

Intelsat 21 (58° w) Sky Mexico position










SkyMX1 (78° W) new satellite Sky position


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It is good to note the reception area in question ... where in the US we have DISH and DirecTV satellites in a maximum "18 degree" or "20 degree" arc that is not the full story. Most of our dishes are designed for use anywhere in the contiguous US. The difference in apparent spacing between the satellites is different in Bangor, Maine vs Miami, Florida or Seattle, Washington vs San Diego, California. The closer one gets to the equator the further apart the satellites appear to be.

Engineers have managed to design dishes that can pick up "18 degree" spaced DBS satellites, relying on the higher power and wider spacing to allow one dish to be used nationally (with the differences between dishes being what satellites are needed, not what area of the country one is in).

Take a look at the Azimuth difference on the two images above ... the satellites are 20 degrees apart when viewed from the center of the earth. Quite a bit more when viewed from the surface. Which would make a "single dish" reception of these two satellites from Columbia a bit more challenging.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

That's true, but you can go much wider than that in reasonably priced products. Is 57* farther north worth 20* at the equator? 

http://worldwidesatellites.com/elliptical-multi-satellite-dish-p-351.html


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Is 57* farther north worth 20* at the equator?


Not quite. Picking a random middle of the US city (Kansas City. MO) it is azimuth 227.3 to 129 and 147.5 to 72.7 - a spread of about 80 degrees. The numbers above for seeing 58 and 78 from Bogata are a spread of 120 degrees azimuth. While it would be possible to design a dish that would do that spread the outside LNBs would need to be further apart than the one you linked. Certainly not a twin LNB.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> ... The numbers above for seeing 58 and 78 from Bogata are a spread of 120 degrees azimuth. While it would be possible to design a dish that would do that spread the outside LNBs would need to be further apart than the one you linked. Certainly not a twin LNB.


Perhaps true, though really an academic study here I think ....

As was stated by the earlier poster, SKY Mexico appears to be leaving 58W for 76 and 79W where ultimately a twin linear LNBF similar to Shaw Direct's current LNBF for 107 and 111W will likely be used with the LNBs placed 1° closer.

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## Ivanem23 (Aug 25, 2015)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYqFvv-6v4s

Sky 78W Zapping Genie Pack Black


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## Ivanem23 (Aug 25, 2015)




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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Say folks;

Got this from a poster on Satelliteguys.us ...

Anyone care to explain, or a best guess at it at least, how the LNBF for the new SKY Mexico service from 76 and 79W actually operates?

It's listed by the mfr. WNC under the acronym "MDual" for a "Monoblock Dual Stacked LNBF."

As you can see from the photos of an installation the LNBF has the two outputs via two coax line runs to the 18v/22 KHz and 13v/22 KHz inputs of a (repurposed?) DIRECTV SWiM-8 module.... Huh?

I have a theory as to what it might be in that both output lines are frequency stacked at 950-1450 MHz for the (SKY Mex. uses linear pol. BTW) odd xpndr set and 1650-2150 MHz for the even set.

And perhaps 18v + 22 KHz tone line signals the satellite at 76W (when it exist) or the current SKYM-1 satellite at 79W. And the 13v + 22 KHz tone line signals the opposite satellite position than the other.

If a translation for some of the material is needed by someone I'll post it. But I can say there is nothing in it (outside of just general installation instructions and tips along with the specifications), that really explains how this LNBF works.





































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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Is both outputs of the LNBF independent ? Each one get signals from one sat ?

I'm wondering how the two coax connections between duo LNBFand SWiM will works for both satellites in a future ?
Now both outputs locked by 22 KHz tone.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Is both outputs of the LNBF independent ? Each one get signals from one sat ? ...


Doesn't say specifically, at least just from these excepts of the installation manual.

My best assumption for now is that one LNBF port generates a stacked signal for one satellite slot. and the particular voltage level with tone selects whether it's from the 76W or 79W slot.

And perhaps if there is no tone detected for when someone wishes to connect a receiver directly to the LNBF, then it's won't stack transponder sets at all, but revert to a basic mode of sending either the odd or even channel sets over the 950-1450 MHz range depending on whether the control voltage is 13 or 18 volts.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

then the connections from both LNBF outputs to a switch switched to stacked mode but the two input ports serving one sat with two polarities ...


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> then the connections from both LNBF outputs to a switch switched to stacked mode but the two input ports serving one sat with two polarities ...


Yeah for instance ...

A 13v+22 KHz tone signal to either LNBF port will bring in a stacked 950-1450 (for odd transponders) 1650-2150 (for even transponders) from the 76W slot.

And a 18v+22KHz tone signal to either LNBF port will bring in a stacked 950-1450 MHz (odd xpdrs.) 1650-2150 MHz (even xpdrs.) from the 79W slot.

Or vice-versa for the above as to the satellite slots.

And of course the SWiM-8's or a directly connected receiver's firmware for SKY Mex. service is designed to recognize this frequency stacking arrangement.

I also retract something I thought earlier ...

I think this LNBF always produces a stacked signal on it outputs, and always requires voltage plus tone to work properly if at all. Therefore if a receiver for SKY Mex. service is connected directly to it the firmware must be designed to generate only voltage together with tone for the control signals.

Again, just best guessing here. Hopefully a SKY Mex. subscriber in the know "down south" can chime in with the actual info. and end the speculation


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Maybe the LNB doesn't care about tone at all, and the only reason it is shown connected to the 22 KHz ports is that Directv had to choose some standardized place for it to connect so the receiver would know what to ask the SWM for. If you think about it, it is going to be simpler to use the two middle ports - those are easy to locate no matter which way the SWM8 is oriented, and since there's no 76 or 79 printed on it to tell you which ones to use you want it to be simple.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Maybe the LNB doesn't care about tone at all, and the only reason it is shown connected to the 22 KHz ports is that Directv had to choose some standardized place for it to connect so the receiver would know what to ask the SWM for. If you think about it, it is going to be simpler to use the two middle ports - those are easy to locate no matter which way the SWM8 is oriented, and since there's no 76 or 79 printed on it to tell you which ones to use you want it to be simple.


If that's the reason for connecting to the Sat B/B+C inputs of the SWiM-8 then good.

I really don't see any need for the 22 KHz tone since two control voltage levels on either of the LNBF's ports should be sufficient to select either a stacked frequency set from 76 or 79W. But was just trying to account for the reason the two 22 KHz tone producing outputs on the switch were selected in the photo.

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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I'm not getting how internal analog switch inside the duo-LNBF working; especially if both sats are running?
Why need the 22 KHz tone if the LNBF is stacked kind, eg both polarities sending down to an IRD?

I've only one explanation IMO for this setup: the LNBF outputs are separate for each sat; both polarities sending down in stacked mode; the current connection should cover new sat also; the SWiM switch is controlling by own FW (?) and IRD's FW different way as we knew for US.

If someone from South running the setup and DVR would like to help us and come here ...


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

The more I think about this LNBF off and on since my last post, plus researching online the way other dual stacked LNBFs operate, I wonder if the hookup in the photo might just be wrong. And it should be one port of the LNBF is connected to say the 13v/22 KHz port on the SWiM-8 module and the other port to the 13v/without tone port of the SWiM-8.

Either this or use only the 18v ports, tone and no tone, on the SWiM-8 module instead.

Because I find no other examples of frequency stacked LNBFs using the 13v/18v voltage switch method which is virtually always used for polarization selection since there are no signal polarizations switch. They just operate the same producing a stacked xpndr set over a range of voltages tipically between about 10-20 volts.

However, I do customarily find the 22 KHz tone signal commonly used for a two satellite position LNBF for orbit slot selection.

So I think this LNBF is like other dual stacked designs internally comprised of two LNBFs for the two satellite positions together with an integrated 2 x 2 22 KHz tone multiswitch. So voltage without tone perhaps selects satellite position A for SKYM-1 at 79W. And voltage with tone selects satellite position B at 76W for Intelsat 16 (interim until KU-76W is launched as SKYM-2?).

Or vice-versa for the above.

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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Oh, no - usually dual output made for run two independent IRDs, so internal matrix switch would send any sat+polarity down to particular output, IF it's not stacked LNBF;
perhaps 22 KHz tone turning on high half ?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Oh, no - usually dual output made for run two independent IRDs, so internal matrix switch would send any sat+polarity down to particular output, IF it's not stacked LNBF;
> perhaps 22 KHz tone turning on high half ?


No, I understand it as the LNBF can send to either of it's ports the stacked xpndrs of the satellite at 76W (currently Intelsat-16) or those from the bird at 79W (SKYM-1).

Such that for instance ...

13v w/o 22 KHz tone = Sat. at 76W, 950-1450 MHz contains vert. xpndrs, 1650-2150 MHz contains horiz. xpndrs.

13v with 22 KHz tone = Sat. at 79W, 950-1450 MHz contains vert. xpndrs, 1650-2150 MHz contains horiz xpndrs.

Or vice-versa for the above where 13v with or without tone is for the opposite satellite.

Or it uses 18v with or without tone that sends the stacked xpndrs from either satellite this way, I don't know.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Why should how other dual stacked LNBs operate have any bearing on this one? This a designed for a captive market, Directv can do it however they want. If you're comparing with ones designed for the Euro/Asian market they need to abide by some sort of standards or common practice so everything is compatible with each other. Directv doesn't care if their gear is compatible with FTA equipment because it isn't designed to work with it.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Why should how other dual stacked LNBs operate have any bearing on this one? This a designed for a captive market, Directv can do it however they want. If you're comparing with ones designed for the Euro/Asian market they need to abide by some sort of standards or common practice so everything is compatible with each other. Directv doesn't care if their gear is compatible with FTA equipment because it isn't designed to work with it.


Actually I was drawing both from the example of the Canadian Shaw Direct (Starchoice) design of their dual stacked LNBFs to access linear pol. 11.7-12.2 MHz xpndrs from satellites at 107.3 and 111.1W.

And the fact I could find no stacked LNBF designs for use anywhere in the world that used a 13v/18v switching process. They always operated at a single voltage like 13v to power the LNBF and internal stacker within some tolerable range of about 10-20v usually listed in the specs. along with or without the 22 KHz tone or some DiSEqC signaling to change satellite positions for dual stacked designs if necessary.

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wow .... even WNC doesn't even seem to know how one of their own LNBFs function, lol;

My email to WNC's Chaucer Chen, head WNC sales rep. for DBS satellite products on 12/28/2015;



> Hello Mr. Chen;
> 
> Hoping you can help shed some light on the operation for this LNBF produced by WNC for the new SKY Mexico service from 76 and 79 degrees W.L. Have some SKY Mexico subscribers who come to our discussion board on occasion, dbstalk.com. for various technical assistance for dish installation and trouble shooting.
> 
> ...


His response on 1/11/2016 ....



> Dear H.,
> 
> We did check your inquiry.
> 
> ...


Well, of course it wasn't "my" connection, but was someone else's in the photo I supplied him along with all the others. and I was questioning it's correctness.

But anyway, WNC doesn't really seem to know for sure as I can't see how this LNBF can function like a "traditional/legacy," 13/18v or with tone, LNBF and perform frequency stacking.

Frequency stacking LNBFs just don't work that way from every other example I could find as I stated earlier.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

you got a response from first line of help group , as you aware they're technically not advanced people


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Application for an RB-79 payload to be added to KU-79 for Sky Mexico

Doctor j

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-155A1.pdf


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

doctor j said:


> Application for an RB-79 payload to be added to KU-79 for Sky Mexico
> 
> Doctor j
> 
> https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-155A1.pdf


Good catch, though to note the uplink frequency band listed for the Reverse band payload RB-79W (S2861) is apparently mislabeled as "24.750-25.50 GHz."

Whereas it should be 24.750-25.250 GHz for non-US operation which is 100 MHz less at 24.750-25.150 GHz.

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## tomspeer46 (Nov 17, 2011)

I was able to provide Gary Toma with the Beam footprint maps from KU-79 and RB-79, taken from the April 2015 FCC filings. The RB-79 beams (TBL and TBR) match what was in the library previously, but the Ku beams TKH and TKV are significantly different. The CONUS Beams, which were not in the last filings, have been removed. The beam footprint files for Google Earth are here: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/184044-interactive-beam-footprint-library/page-6#entry3355060

Note that the footprint patterns are identical for TKH and TKV, TBL and TBR are also identical to each other, but they are documented as separate beams in the FCC filings.


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## Wicked (Oct 29, 2005)

Has anyone scanned this sat from the US? Is reception possible with the same type of antenna they are doing installations with? if in the footprint?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Wicked said:


> Has anyone scanned this sat from the US? Is reception possible with the same type of antenna they are doing installations with? if in the footprint?


did you check Lyngsat ?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Wicked said:


> Has anyone scanned this sat from the US? Is reception possible with the same type of antenna they are doing installations with? if in the footprint?


The satellite is intended for Mexico, and it only hits there. The signal bleeds into the extreme southern edge of the US as you can see here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/184044-interactive-beam-footprint-library/page-6#entry3355060

Since it is linearly polarized, unlike the circular polarization Directv & Dish use in the US, the dishes used here for those services would not work even if you were near enough to the border.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Since it is linearly polarized, unlike the circular polarization Directv & Dish use in the US, the dishes used here for those services would not work even if you were near enough to the border.


It is possible to receive a linear signal on a circular LNB, but one will get better results with the right LNB for the signal being received.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

[mod hat on]
Note that it is the policy of these forums to not discuss actions that would violate the terms of service of the service providers. That includes receiving programming outside of the designated market area it is intended for. Please drop the discussion of reception of the Latin American service within the US.
Thanks
[mod hat off]


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

tomspeer46 said:


> Muchas Gracias to Eduardo, our Latin American team member, on assignment in Mexico. I have added the Sky Mexico Band Plan to the US and Latin American ones HERE.


Hey great news Tom ...

To now have a SKY Mex. correspondent down there for that service.

Think Eduardo might be able to shed some light on the 76W/79W SKY Mex. LNB as to its specific voltage/tone switching? And how connecting both LNB ports to the 13 and 18v voltage + tone generating ports on a SWiM-8 multiswitch in the pictures we have actually works?

Also, are XNPDRs 25 and 26 for IS-21 phantom transponders in the data stream or something?

As the Schedule S and accompanying Engineering Statement for IS-21 (call sign S2863) list no such ones for Ku service to Mex. Only 1 thru 24 between 11.720-12.180 GHz center freqs. on the downlink.

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## tomspeer46 (Nov 17, 2011)

Eduardo has had limited time to gather data for us. He is travelling a great deal. What we did get was the result of him being home recovering from an illness for a few days, when we could work with him. He does not have access to the location of the SWM switch, so cannot shed light on that configuration. I put what we had into the Band Plan without a great deal of analysis, because I was busy after that. Eduardo has subscribed to what Sky-Mexico called "HD Total" last year, which they heavily promoted to eliminate the need for a separate dish for IS-21. This year they have rebranded their service as "skyHD" for all of their packages. When Sky-M2 begins service, I doubt it will be used in the same installation as IS-21, so the switch just has to handle two LNB's on Ku and two on RDBS in the future. It looks like they are retiring IS-21 from Mexican service as fast as possible. You are correct about TPNs 25 and 26. The FCC filing does not show any transponder on those frequencies, they looked suspicious but I didn't research it. I should probably remove them. Eduardo has no way of verifying that, since he receives no service and has no SS display from IS-21.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Oh ok ...

Was hoping Eduardo might just know about the LNB's voltage/tone switching selection without having to actually go look at the SWiM multiswitch.

If one of the ports on the LNB were hooked to one of the non tone generating ports of the multiswitch (13v/99W/101W or 18v/99W/101W) it would make sense for a "twin stacked LNB" as it allegedly is. But not with both connected to the voltage + tone generating ports 18v/103W/110W/119W and 13v/103W/119W of the switch.

And yes, the future SKY Mex. 2 should be the same as "KU-76W," which as the title indicates is destined for 76W. So the LNB should be capable of switching between 76 and 79W on either port and produce a stacked frequency output for either satellite position. Odd XNPDRs between 950-1450 MHz and even ones between 1650-2150 MHz.

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## tomspeer46 (Nov 17, 2011)

HoTat2 said:


> Oh ok ...
> 
> Was hoping Eduardo might just know about the LNB's voltage/tone switching selection without having to actually go look at the SWiM multiswitch.


Unfortunately, Sky-Mex installed both the LNB and switch where Eduardo can't get to it.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

tomspeer46 said:


> Unfortunately, Sky-Mex installed both the LNB and switch where Eduardo can't get to it.


Ok ... but as I said, I was hoping given his obvious technical knowledge, perhaps he knew about the SKY Mex. LNB anyway without even needing to look at the multiswitch hookup arrangement.

Though if he could see it, that would be good too as it would help confirm a theory of mine that the confusion is due to the one closeup photo we have of it on file is simply an incorrect hookup.

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## tomspeer46 (Nov 17, 2011)

I don't believe that is an incorrect hookup. I just think you are expecting that LNB to be more than it is. Eduardo has indicated that SkyM-2 will require a newer LNB. I believe that the 22kHz tone is turned on for all channels from SkyM-1, and 13v/18v selects polarity. The other two ports on the SWM-8 will be used for SkyM-2. They may have been used for IS-21 in the past, if a second dish was installed.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

It's just after a lot of study it seems as the name of the LNB indicates, "(MDUAL) Monoblock Dual Stacked LNBF" ...

"Monoblock" = Meaning a multisat LNB comprising multiple fixed space LNBFs on the same assembly.

"Dual" = For two LNBFs, one for receiving from 76W and the other for 79W.

"Stacked" = Each LNBF generates a stacked transponder output (odd #s 950-1450 MHz, even #s 1650-2150 MHz) from the satellite at its respective slot as in the illustration...

Tapatalk Cloud - Downlaoad File stacked-lnb.gif

Note: The SKY Mex. LNB would use the 10.75 and 13.85 MHz LO pair.

The problem is the usual design of a twin stacked LNB does not use 18v/13v voltage selection on its ports, but as with any frequency stacker typically operates with any fixed voltage in the range of about 9-20v on one or both ports. And the 22 KHz tone is used to switch LNBFs so either port can receive the alternate satellite position.

And this is where the one closeup photo we have makes no sense, as one of the two coax lines from the LNB should be connected to one of the no tone ports of the multiswitch so one LNB port feeds the switch the stacked output from 79W and the other port would be the stacked output from 76W (when it exists of course).

This makes me speculate that the hookup in the photo is incorrect for receiving future signals from 76W. As both LNBs are receiving the same signals only from 79W in the photo's hookup.

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Or IOW ...

The SKY Mex. LNB port A with 18v or 13v (voltage level should be irrelevant to power the LNB and its internal stacker electronics) and no tone selects the 76W satellite position of the future SKY Mex. 2 satellite (or KU-76W).

And LNB port B with 18v or 13v (again specific voltage level is irrelevant for the same reasons above) plus the 22 KHz tone selects the current 79W satellite SKY Mex. 1

Reverse Band capability for when the current RB-79W and future RB-76W payloads go active will require an altogether new LNB I would think ...

And I wasn't aware there was ever a combined 58W/76W/79W dish hookup option through the same SWiM multiswitch. I thought 58W is being used nowadays as a totally separate SD only service for Mexico and other south of the border customers who either don't want to pay for HD or awaiting availability to convert to the new skyHD service at 76W/79W?

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## tomspeer46 (Nov 17, 2011)

I don't believe the LNB you reference is being used in the installations we know about. From what I can determine, the current installations use the same LOF for both polarities, and the tone is on for all of the current channels for 79W. The band stacking LNB may be to enable the RB channels.


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## tomspeer46 (Nov 17, 2011)

This discussion has gone totally off topic, and should be continued, if necessary, in the Sky-M1 or Sky-M2 discussion threads.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

You're most right ...

Sorry to go on so beyond questions specifically about the band plan.

Mods please move my last series of posts here mainly dealing with the SKY Mex. LNB question to the SKY Mex-1 or 2 thread.

Thanks. ...

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## Ivanem23 (Aug 25, 2015)

Hello good afternoon friends, Sky Mexico is looking to unify its prepaid and postpaid services on the skym1 satellite. That is why it launched its service VTV HD which like the postpaid will have an elliptical antenna, but what caught my attention is the LNB a very different way to the one used in the prepaid service. I will try to investigate what differences may have beyond design, now I leave photos.
















Enviado desde mi Moto G Play mediante Tapatalk


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Ivanem23 said:


> Hello good afternoon friends, Sky Mexico is looking to unify its prepaid and postpaid services on the skym1 satellite. That is why it launched its service VTV HD which like the postpaid will have an elliptical antenna, but what caught my attention is the LNB a very different way to the one used in the prepaid service. I will try to investigate what differences may have beyond design, now I leave photos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well ....

Since there looks to be only a single coax output and the SKY Mexico service will eventually be from two sat. positions. I would guess the LNB is a SWiM integrated type.

But what's sort of puzzling is that the very elongated vertical shape of the feedhorn is typical for a single satellite position type. Whereas the SKY Mex. service will eventually come from 76 and 79W (once SKYMex-2 is launched).

Therefore I would have expected a more "squarish" shape to the feedhorn as with the previous LNBs.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm more surprised about the shape of the dish. Why such a wide dish for only two positions? Maybe they decided to re-use the Slimline shape even though it was unnecessary because of economies of scale??


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

HoTat2 said:


> Well ....
> 
> Since there looks to be only a single coax output and the SKY Mexico service will eventually be from two sat. positions. I would guess the LNB is a SWiM integrated type.
> 
> ...


Correction ...

With the release of the latest WNC product catalog, this is actually a non-SWiM single slot single LNBF model for either 79W or 58W. To receive the SKY Mex. service at either position between 11.7-12.2 GHz linear pol. And LO of 10.75 GHz.

With only one coax output the model# is "FS2-MX." And has a dual linear LNBF variety the "FS4-MX."

Not really sure why they would produce this very limited model ...

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