# Not happy with the 722 HD Picture Quality



## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

I have two ViP722 DVR receivers; one hooked to a 1024x1024 42" plasma and the other in my theater on a 720P LCD PJ ( www prosteering.8k.com ). I have had the new DVR's for over a month now and I am frustrated by the soft picture on HD. I am yet to have one of those WOW moments when watching HD like I had before with just my OTA tuners (42" built in ATSC/ Samsung ATSC HD tuner on the PJ). 
I have the 722's both set to 1080i (16x9) as that seems to be the best pitcher quality setting but still falls way short of what I am use to on either the Plasma or LCD PJ. I have the 42" hooked up HDMI to DVI and the theater is Component or HDMI to DVI but I find the Component looks slightly better for some reason.

Anyone have any idea as to why? Oh ya I find the same poor/soft HD picture quality on local OTA as well as Dish HD signals!

Just dose not have that WOW that I was use to!


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

outofline said:


> I have the 722's both set to 1080i (16x9) as that seems to be the best pitcher quality setting ...
> Oh ya I find the same poor/soft HD picture quality on local OTA as well as Dish HD signals!


OMG, did you really type "pitcher"? :lol:

If you're having the same poor quality with your OTA signal, look no farther than your TV settings. Set your Sharpness (or whatever your TV set calls it) to the absolute minimum. It wouldn't hurt to invest in the Video Essentials DVD. That will help you to calibrate your TV to give you the best "picture".


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## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

Alright please forgive me for making a mistake, and I really don't care for you using Gods name in vein. Very unnecessary in my opinion!

Had you read my post closer, I do not have a calibration problem! I had been totally happy with the HD picture quality with my old ATSC tuners but now find the new 722's to be lacking in picture quality on both OTA from the 722 and the Dish HD! I had been running OTA HD for a few years now!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Welcome outofline to DBSTalk. As to the pitcher comment by TulsaOk, I believe he was only joking given his little happy face. 

Couple of questions...

1) You say you are happy with the HD quality of your HD over the air antenna. Is this through an internal HD Tuner or external? if so, have you tried swapping your inputs to see if your issue follows?

2) You are seeing this on two sets and that definitely would tend to lean away from calibration issues but to fully rule it out I personally would try plugging into the exact same inputs that your OTA is using if it is not internal is see if you see a difference.

3) I have OTA and Dish HD locals and I have done a comparison on my Dish 722/622 and the difference in my configuration is slight. Yes If you keep toggling back and forth and look from a short distance you can see a difference but it is slight. I am not connected to an internal tuner so I can't personally tell the difference.

4) I would change it to 720p and see if there is a drop or rise in PQ. For some no difference is seen. For others 720p setting has improves PQ. Something easy to try without having to swap any cables. 

One thing to keep in mind. A lot of sets calibration is per input so it is possible that the inputs you have your 722s connected to have not been tweaked or are at factor defaults and that usually means bad news for a Sat signal. Something worth checking if you have not already done so.


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## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

My previous OTA tuners are no longer hooked up, I sold one (the Samsung) and the other is the built in ATSC tuner in the Plasma which is no longer hooked up due to the antenna coax now going to the 722. The current OTA is the 722's! 
Today I am borrowing my friends 811 Dish receiver to try it's OTA to see if I get what I use to see with my old Samsung receiver. The picture quality I am getting with the 722 looks as if my Projector is out of focus, so far I have recalibrated it and refocused several times since I got the 722 just to make sure that is not the problem. HD DVD and DVD looks fantastic on the same Component and HDMI inputs so I know it's not the projector or it's focus or it's settings! 
I do see a bit worse picture quality difference in the theater because it's an 124" screen compare to the 42" plasma, but even the Plasma is not as sharp as the built in Hitachi's ATSC tuner! It just does not have that pop off the screen Wow factor that I once had. 

I see a bit more stair stepping on lines with the 720 compared to the 1080, but the over all sharpness of the image does not change! I would say I get a sharper picture quality for the most part on a DVD at 480p then I am getting with these 722's on a HD signal. A few programs here and there look pretty good like ultimate fighting on HDnet but still not what I would see with my Samsung. I love NASCAR and to see it on Fox HD was always a treat as well as football but now the same programs just look soft! The faces in the stands are almost a blur where before I could have picked my Granny out of the audience half way up.
Now operation wise I like the 722's and I have had no issues with the 722's other then the learning curve compared to our Direct TV DVR we just retired which we loved except it was not HD!


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## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

Ya know I just got thinking. I only had one coax cable running into the theater; I figured he would need to run 2 more cables for the 3 tuners on the 722. But he said he could run all 3 signals over one coax with a thing I believe he called it a Diplexer! Do you think this is why I am having this picture quality problem? Of course he did not indicate I would have a loss of picture quality, it was a much easier install for him by installing the Diplexer!
This might explain the theater but I think the 42" is all separate cables! Would it be affected by the Diplexer also?


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## TvilleBee (Feb 11, 2007)

Most all sets have different settings for each input, so if you're set up for a good pix on the tuner, you may have all together different settings for HDMI, give a look, the 622 looks great through HDMI to my LG LCD


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

If you are feeding any of your TVs with coax then you are only getting a SD signal. You have to use either HDMI or component to get HD. I see in your first post you said HDMI/component for the theater but in your last post you are now saying coax.


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## mattfast1 (Mar 26, 2008)

HobbyTalk said:


> If you are feeding any of your TVs with coax then you are only getting a SD signal. You have to use either HDMI or component to get HD. I see in your first post you said HDMI/component for the theater but in your last post you are now saying coax.


I think he's referring to the cabling between the antennae (dish and OTA) and the receiver.



outofline said:


> Ya know I just got thinking. I only had one coax cable running into the theater; I figured he would need to run 2 more cables for the 3 tuners on the 722. But he said he could run all 3 signals over one coax with a thing I believe he called it a Diplexer! Do you think this is why I am having this picture quality problem? Of course he did not indicate I would have a loss of picture quality, it was a much easier install for him by installing the Diplexer!
> This might explain the theater but I think the 42" is all separate cables! Would it be affected by the Diplexer also?


Normally this would not affect the signal strength. You may want to check your point dish screen and your local channels screen (for OTA signal).

Point Dish: Menu - 6 - 1 - 1
Local Channels: Menu - 6 - 9


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## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

The Coax cable I'm referring to is from the antenna and the Satellite dish, and if the TV has a built in ATSC tuner then feeding it a coax from the antenna it will get HD! But that is not what I was talking about!

I did try the 811 this morning and am even more frustrated because I got the same picture quality from it and it was feeding DVI/HDMI/DVI. I also removed the Diplexer and found the same picture quality still, so that rules out the Diplexer. So I guess it's either the Samsung was much better at HD then the Dish receivers or my PJ is not what I once thought. 
I was hoping by posting here that this was a common problem and someone would know an easy solution.

Thanks for your help!

outofline
My theater
www.prosteering.8k.com


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## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

mattfast1, I am getting great reception from the Dish and also upwards of 90-100 on the antenna! The new 722 was getting much better signal strength from the antenna then either my Samsung and the 811 so I can see Dish has made improvements to the OTA reception on this unit!


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

None of this makes sense. If the 480p of a DVD looks better than HD coming from a 722 via HDMI, perhaps you have a display input input is set to the wrong resolution (???)

You stated that the 722's are set at 1080i. However, what is the input of your display set at? If it's set at 480i, that's all you are going to get. It's possible that your display allows for different input settings for each input. I would verify them all. Also, I would set the 722 to output at 720p to match the native 720p display of your PJ. That's what works best for me.


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## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

moman19, is your 622 hooked to your Panasonic PT-AE900U, I have mine hooked to my Panasonic PT-AE500U. Are you blown away by the picture you are getting? I am not at home at the moment but the panny switches to what ever res you feed it does it not? Doing some very close inspection I do find 1080 to give a little less jaggies then the 720.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

outofline said:


> moman19, is your 622 hooked to your Panasonic PT-AE900U, I have mine hooked to my Panasonic PT-AE500U. Are you blown away by the picture you are getting? I am not at home at the moment but the panny switches to what ever res you feed it does it not? Doing some very close inspection I do find 1080 to give a little less jaggies then the 720.


Yes, my 622 is connected to the PJ. It's connected via Component cables as the DVR is shared via HDMI with a DLP set on the above floor. I'm very happy with its PQ. While there is always room for improvement, (I wish the PJ was a tad brighter and was DPL instead of LCD) I find the resolution of the sat HD programming far superior to that of my upconverting 480p DVD player.

You are correct about the input comment. I believe the input selection is automatic. Therefore, I am puzzled.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

outofline said:


> I also removed the Diplexer and found the same picture quality still, so that rules out the Diplexer.


Because much of this is digital, you either get a good picture or you get an obviously bad picture. There's not much middle ground.

Comparing your memory with what your eyes see is bad scientific method. To develop a true comparison, you need to do an A-B comparison through the same input as noted several times above.

The output of a ViP722 shouldn't be notably inferior to other sources when looking at the same source material. You can't reasonably compare DVD to OTA to satellite.


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## stol (May 31, 2006)

As for watching something that makes you say, "Wow!", the only thing that still does that for me are the shows on (Discovery) HD Theater.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

I used to think my 722 had a soft SD picture, but I recently replaced my display and I just can not believe the difference. I have had many LCD's and Plasmas, as I worked for a couple display manufacturers... The most common problem I see with displays is poor SD PQ. Now while there is truth to the old saying, garbage in garbage out... I have been reading up on how the display itself plays a role in decoding. The display I just bought has received very high reviews for SD PQ. The 120Hz 32 bit ALS engine really did improve my SD quality. I do have to admit some of the content on DIY and the old This old House episodes on HGTV are really nasty. 

I guess to sum all this babbling up, it's not always the receiver. Content and display medium also play a role.


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## mlaviolette (Apr 16, 2008)

Jason Nipp said:


> I used to think my 722 had a soft SD picture, but I recently replaced my display and I just can not believe the difference. I have had many LCD's and Plasmas, as I worked for a couple display manufacturers... The most common problem I see with displays is poor SD PQ. Now while there is truth to the old saying, garbage in garbage out... I have been reading up on how the display itself plays a role in decoding. The display I just bought has received very high reviews for SD PQ. The 120Hz 32 bit ALS engine really did improve my SD quality. I do have to admit some of the content on DIY and the old This old House episodes on HGTV are really nasty.
> 
> I guess to sum all this babbling up, it's not always the receiver. Content and display medium also play a role.


Jason, which TV do you have, a Sony Bravia XBR?


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## PokerJoker (Apr 12, 2008)

I have a thought. On whatever display that has the soft picture, is there a menu or button that will show you what resolution is actually being displayed? Does it actually say 1080i (or 720p)?

I ask, because you mentioned a DVI connection. Generally speaking if you run an HDMI signal into a DVI device, via an adapter, there is a good chance that you will not get an HD picture. If the device's DVI input does not support HDCP content protection, and many don't, you won't get HD. That's why I have to run my older plasma screen here via component; even though it has a DVI, it is too old to support HDCP. 

This would account for your component connection looking better, too.

Keith


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## Quakeman (Apr 23, 2007)

I agree, it sounds like you are running into an HDCP problem. To prevent easy copying, nearly all HDMI devices require a "handshake" with the TV that basically says "I'm a TV, not a copy machine." Unfortunately, HDCP was not invented when DVI was the standard. This means if your TV has no HDMI input, that HDMI from the satellite box, as well as Blueray, 1080 dvd upconverters, and HD video games will show at 480.

My first foray as an early adopter was HDTV. I'm more than a little annoyed that they have sabotaged my very expensive toy, which I was hoping to use for at least a decade, maybe more.

Two solutions (short of buying a new TV) I am aware of:

(1) Use component cables (which is what I do). This works with my Dish HD box, at least for now. Most 1080 DVD upconverters will not work through component at 1080. I have a Momitsu DVD upconverter that will play 1080 through component, and it looks great. I believe no Blueray players will play 1080 through component because of the copy protection.

(2) Buy a device to make your TV HDCP compliant (like HDFury). I've never tried this, and it would seem to raise some legal questions.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Quakeman said:


> Unfortunately, HDCP was not invented when DVI was the standard.


This is NOT true. HDCP was _implemented_ on many later DVI setups.

HDCP v1.0 was published in February 2000 and HDCP 1.3 was published in late 2006. DVI 1.0 was published in April 1999.

HDCP was approved in the Summer of 2004 for use with the Broadcast Flag by the FCC.


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## outofline (Apr 14, 2008)

Both of my displays show 1080i as the resolution being displayed on both component and DVI and both sets are HDCP compliant! I have a friend that also has the 722 and he stated he also is missing that detail he saw with his Zenith OTA atsc tuner. 
Today I will borrow a friends USDTV OTA atsc tuner and see what I get from it. All I know is these 722's that I have are not giving me the image I had with my other tuners and they are set up correctly and the sets are calibrated correctly. I'm not new at this Home theater stuff at all, my last PJ in my theater was a CRT NEC PJ9+ that I set up myself and required a if I remember correctly a 109 point convergence and a different set up on every resolution, talk about many hours standing in front of the screen! 
I know what I'm seeing I just have to figure out why I'm seeing it!


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## gintzj (Jan 4, 2007)

TulsaOK said:


> OMG, did you really type "pitcher"? :lol:
> 
> If you're having the same poor quality with your OTA signal, look no farther than your TV settings. Set your Sharpness (or whatever your TV set calls it) to the absolute minimum. It wouldn't hurt to invest in the Video Essentials DVD. That will help you to calibrate your TV to give you the best "picture".


ota check all you conectors are tight but not over tight and adjustment of the antenna

Jim


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