# Where did the Genie Go go?



## mikefour77 (Jan 24, 2011)

Anybody know if there is an upcoming hardware refresh for the Genie go? Everytime I try to log in a buy one, they are not available. Did I miss something?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

there are rumors that one is coming. However a call to DirecTV will def get you one.


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## mikefour77 (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks! If a newer version is potentially coming, I might just wait. Haven't had one this long.... A little longer won't kill me.


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

You aren't missing anything. The GenieGo is an inferior product that's crippled by DirecTV's insistence on heavyweight DRM and their crappy mobile apps. I got mine for free and I want to return it anyway.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

munangst said:


> You aren't missing anything. The GenieGo is an inferior product that's crippled by DirecTV's insistence on heavyweight DRM and their crappy mobile apps. I got mine for free and I want to return it anyway.


No is not.

Is not DirecTV, there are being "forced" is not DirecTV's content, why should they care?


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> No is not.


To me, the GenieGo is an inferior product. The Dish Hopper isn't perfect, but as it relates to streaming live TV and offloading shows to devices it is FAR superior to the GenieGo in my limited exposure to it.

I still use my GenieGo to offload shows to my devices, but for OOH streaming, I bought a Slingbox Solo. That is FAR superior to the GenieGo.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

It is one step above a Slacker G2 radio. I bought my then nomad to take west coast/late night NHL CI games while I was traveling and without Internet access. Found out after hours on the phone, interaction with Case management and Ellen's office that for GenieGo purposes only, out of market sports packages are considered PPV. "but I don't pay per view, I bought the entire season.". No response.

That and having to uninstall and reinstall the app on a recurring basis stinks. Especially when you're on the road and aren't at home. Devices are bricked until you get home.


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## jagrim (Aug 26, 2006)

munangst said:


> You aren't missing anything. The GenieGo is an inferior product that's crippled by DirecTV's insistence on heavyweight DRM and their crappy mobile apps. I got mine for free and I want to return it anyway.


That's not a correct statement!!!!!

I've add a GenieGo for over a year and am very satisfied. I also have a Slingbox and have yet to get the slingbox to stream when wi-fi or cellular are not a available. Shows that have been downloaded are sufficient quality to watch on a tablet or phone.

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

peds48 said:


> No is not.
> 
> Is not DirecTV, there are being "forced" is not DirecTV's content, why should they care?


The product has DTV's name on it, so I hold them responsible for the user experience. I don't care whether it's their decision or the content owners. If you can't ship a good product, it's better to ship nothing than ship a crappy product with your name on it.

Aside from the DRM (which "may or may not be their fault"), some of the problems that they definitely ARE responsible for:
- Transcoding takes 1:1 time, so transferring a 60-minute show takes 60 minutes. I can download a 60-minute show from iTunes or Google Play in a few minutes. Why does the transcoding have to be done at all? Failing that, why can't it be done in real-time? I realize the "auto-download" feature is an attempt to work around this problem, but it doesn't change the fact that I have to plan ahead what I'm going to transfer, possibly by several days.
- It's flaky. Mine is currently only showing the playlist from one of my two DVRs. Rebooting the unit hasn't fixed this, and others are reporting the same problem with the latest Genie FW release.
- The mobile apps are slow and clunky (at least on Android, which is where my experience is). The UI looks like something they copied from iOS instead of using native Android controls and designs.

Yes, in cases where you have no other option, it's better than nothing...but it's still vastly inferior to downloading the program from iTunes/Google Play or streaming from Netflix, HBO GO, Hulu, etc. if the program is available there. It should be much faster and easier to get content 20 feet across my living room onto my tablet or PC than from a datacenter in another state, but with the GenieGo it's slower and harder.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

munangst said:


> .
> 
> Aside from the DRM (which "may or may not be their fault"), some of the problems that they definitely ARE responsible for:
> - Transcoding takes 1:1 time, so transferring a 60-minute show takes 60 minutes. I can download a 60-minute show from iTunes or Google Play in a few minutes. Why does the transcoding have to be done at all? I realize the "auto-download" feature is an attempt to work around this problem, but it doesn't change the fact that I have to plan ahead what I'm going to transfer, possibly by several days.


Would you like a 3GB file (per movie, give or take) on your mobile device? is good to rant, but make sure when you do that it makes sense!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

munangst said:


> - It's flaky. Mine is currently only showing the playlist from one of my two DVRs. Rebooting the unit hasn't fixed this, and others are reporting the same problem with the latest Genie FW release.


Well I've got 6 DVRs and no issues at all. so I just wonder


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Would you like a 3GB file (per movie, give or take) on your mobile device? is good to rant, but make sure when you do that it makes sense!


When downloading from Google Play to an Android device you get a file appropriate for your device. A 2 hour movie is in the 1.5GB range. Perfectly acceptable to me. And makes total sense too.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> Well I've got 6 DVRs and no issues at all. so I just wonder


I have 3 DVR's and neither of my HR23's showed a single program for the first month that I had the GenieGo. I finally got fed up and did a CE that weekend. Then and only then did all of my content show up. The next national release that my HR23's downloaded were fine too.

It's great for you to say that you have 6 DVR's and that you've never had this problem, but it DOES exist and people have/are having it across a number of different DVR model numbers. I get that you are an installer and that your first inclination is to go into D* defense mode, but you look too biased in this discussion.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> When downloading from Google Play to an Android device you get a file appropriate for your device. A 2 hour movie is in the 1.5GB range. Perfectly acceptable to me. And makes total sense too.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


DirecTV's files are way much bigger than that, and you said correctly, "*you get a file appropriate for your device"*


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Mr. Angst: This device is great for travel, sublime when there's no or poor internet. 

And while transcoding takes a long time, most people learn to run it over night. Downloading takes a fraction of the time.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> I get that you are an installer and that your first inclination is to go into D* defense mode, but you look too biased in this discussion.


being a DirecTV installer have no weight in my thinking, if you knew the truth, I will be bashing them according to you. I just said based solely on my PERSONAL experience


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> DirecTV's files are way much bigger than that, and you said correctly, "*you get a file appropriate for your device"*


Yes, I did say that. I'll also say that the movie that I downloaded from Google Play looked amazing on my Nexus 7, while the "way much bigger" GenieGo transfers look pitiful in comparison.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> Yes, I did say that. I'll also say that the movie that I downloaded from Google Play looked amazing on my Nexus 7, while the "way much bigger" GenieGo transfers look pitiful in comparison.


you dont get it, don't you. The GG files are smaller, thus the reduced picture quality. the reason for this is not every has a 64GB or 18GB tablet. space comes at a premium when it comes to portable devices.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Mr. Angst: This device is great for travel, sublime when there's no or poor internet.
> 
> And while transcoding takes a long time, most people learn to run it over night. Downloading takes a fraction of the time.


I will agree that Out of Home could use some improvements. Maybe we will see some soneday. But as Mr. Lax states, it is a great travel item. I am on planes a lot and never have to pay for the 7" finger printed dull screen to watch anything on the plane.
And I never have to pay Google Play or Apple for content either.

I do the overnight thing and have 8 hours of content in the morning, at no extra charge.

If you consider it's doesn't need any connectivity out of home, there's no extra charge for content and how it pulls from the DVR's, I'm pretty pleased. Sure a few improvements would be nice but I am happy with it.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> you dont get it, don't you. The GG files are smaller, thus the reduced picture quality. the reason for this is not every has a 64GB or 18GB tablet. space comes at a premium when it comes to portable devices.


First you say the files are bigger, now you say they're smaller, which is it?

I can tell you that I get this: a 30 minute show transfer from GenieGo is just about 500MB, which is 1GB per hour of programming. Give or take. It's a poor quality 480p file and is acceptable at best.

Movies from Google Play are also 1GB per hour of programming, again, give or take about 50MB. The file, which is nearly identical in size to a GenieGo transfer of the same program length is in HD. It looks amazing, not acceptable, but amazing.

Now, I know you're going to talk about codecs and all that other stuff, but that all points back to the GenieGo, as it is right now, being an inferior product.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> First you say the files are bigger, now you say they're smaller, which is it?


the DirecTV DVR files ARE BIGGER, the GG files are smaller (this is the reason for transcode, besides format of course)

GG files for an hour show clocks in about 600MB give or take, not sure where you are getting 500MB for 30 minutes.

And NR4P brings an EXCELLENT point, GG files are free, Google play cost you extra dough! you can also rent from DirecTV.com never done it but pretty sure the picture would be better. So you are comparing Apple to Bananas :nono2:


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> the DirecTV DVR files ARE BIGGER, the GG files are smaller (this is the reason for transcode, besides format of course)
> 
> GG files for an hour show clocks in about 600MB give or take, not sure where you are getting 500MB for 30 minutes.
> 
> And NR4P brings an EXCELLENT point, GG files are free, Google play cost you extra dough! you can also rent from DirecTV.com never done it but pretty sure the picture would be better. So you are comparing Apple to Bananas :nono2:


I watch the available storage on my tablet tick down as 30 minute shows are transfered to my Nexus 7 and each one runs just about 500MB.

GenieGo transfers aren't "free", I paid $99 for my GenieGo and I give D* almost $190 a month for service. They are no additional charge over and above what I paid for the device and the programming package, but they are not free.

And for all of the channels that I have and all of the programming available to me, there's plenty of stuff that simply isn't available to record and transfer via GenieGo.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> I watch the available storage on my tablet tick down as 30 minute shows are transfered to my Nexus 7 and each one runs just about 500MB.
> 
> GenieGo transfers aren't "free", I paid $99 for my GenieGo and I give D* almost $190 a month for service. They are no additional charge over and above what I paid for the device and the programming package, but they are not free.
> 
> And for all of the channels that I have and all of the programming available to me, there's plenty of stuff that simply isn't available to record and transfer via GenieGo.


exactly my point, the Google Play content would be on top of what you pay DirecTV, the GG is not costing extra. the files must be smaller on iOS then, because they average 600MB give or take an hour.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> exactly my point, the Google Play content would be on top of what you pay DirecTV


I fail to see the relevancy of my willingness to rent from Google Play so that I can download a new release movie to take with me to this discussion.

True, I could give the $5 to D* instead of Google, but I can't transfer that to my Nexus 7, so again, how are new release movies that cost about $5 to rent from Google Play, and probably the same from D* relevant here?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

dualsub2006 said:


> First you say the files are bigger, now you say they're smaller, which is it?
> 
> I can tell you that I get this: a 30 minute show transfer from GenieGo is just about 500MB, which is 1GB per hour of programming. Give or take. It's a poor quality 480p file and is acceptable at best.
> 
> Movies from Google Play are also 1GB per hour of programming, again, give or take about 50MB. The file, which is nearly identical in size to a GenieGo transfer of the same program length is in HD. It looks amazing, not acceptable, but amazing.


What are you playing it on? - Never mind, I see you mention a Nexus. I'm out.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> I fail to see the relevancy of my willingness to rent from Google Play so that I can download a new release movie to take with me to this discussion.
> 
> True, I could give the $5 to D* instead of Google, but I can't transfer that to my Nexus 7, so again, how are new release movies that cost about $5 to rent from Google Play, and probably the same from D* relevant here?


you dont need to transfer, you can just buy on your mobile device









Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> you dont need to transfer, you can just buy on your mobile device


Isn't that streaming only?

That doesn't solve the "put it on my device so that I don't burn up my mobile data cap" dilemma.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> Isn't that streaming only?
> 
> That doesn't solve the "put it on my device so that I don't burn up my mobile data cap" dilemma.


That is why I was saying that you are comparing Apples to Microsoft, lol you can't compared Google Play with GG.

If you want to compare GG, you have to compare it with Slingbox or Vulkano,

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> That is why I was saying that you are comparing Apples to Microsoft, lol you can't compared Google Play with GG.
> 
> If you want to compare GG, you have to compare it with Slingbox or Vulkano,


We're comparing downloaded file size, and Google Play file sizes on my Nexus 7 are just a little bigger than GenieGo file sizes and they're HD. How is that an apples to Microsoft comparison? Because I'm willing to pay instead of seeing an awful transfer?

Bringing up Slingbox or Vulkano is an apples to oranges comparison, because we're talking about downloaded shows. Either of those devices provides a vastly superior picture than GenieGo, but that's streaming only.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

dualsub2006 said:


> We're comparing downloaded file size,


No, we are not! The only reason I brought the file size was to point to the posters the reason for transcoding. you then came with the Google Play ideology, it was not me. if you want to compare Google Play with something, compare it with DirecTV PPV

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

peds48 said:


> if you want to compare Google Play with something, compare it with DirecTV PPV


D* PPV can't be transcoded and downloaded via GenieGo. If I'm sitting at home in front of my TV I'd compare D* PPV to Vudu, and I rent from Vudu.

There are different ways to get content on a mobile device. iTunes, Google Play and GenieGo. GenieGo is inferior, the fact that I'm not paying an additional fee to transfer via GenieGo is totally irrelevant. 
Excusing GenieGo picture quality because it's "free" or because the smaller file size storage is a non-starter with me.

This has been big fun, it really has, but I'm done.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dualsub2006 said:


> Bringing up Slingbox or Vulkano is an apples to oranges comparison, because we're talking about downloaded shows. Either of those devices provides a vastly superior picture than GenieGo, but that's streaming only.


Slingbox/Vulkano compared to GenieGo certainly is apples vs oranges.

Devices that work reliably to one that doesn't. !rolling


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> D* PPV can't be transcoded and downloaded via GenieGo. If I'm sitting at home in front of my TV I'd compare D* PPV to Vudu, and I rent from Vudu.
> 
> There are different ways to get content on a mobile device. iTunes, Google Play and GenieGo. GenieGo is inferior, the fact that I'm not paying an additional fee to transfer via GenieGo is totally irrelevant.
> Excusing GenieGo picture quality because it's "free" or because the smaller file size storage is a non-starter with me.
> ...


THIS. This is what I'm talking about. If I want to watch a show on my Nexus 7, I have a bunch of choices.

Methods that* don't *require an Internet connection to watch:
- Transfer it with GenieGo
- Buy it for $2 from Google Play
- Torrent it and copy the MP4 file to the Nexus 7

Methods that *do* require an Internet connection:
- Stream it from the GenieGo
- Stream it from the Slingbox
- Stream it from Hulu Plus, Netflix, HBO GO, etc.

I think it's entirely fair to compare any of the options in one of those categories. The GenieGo's streaming might be competitive with the Slingbox or Hulu/Netflix/etc. options, but the transfer options are inferior. Aside from the worse video quality and transcoding delay, we also have all the DRM problems:
- I can't transfer shows when I'm not on my home network
- Transferred shows expire off my device after 30 days, even if I still have them on my DVR
- I can't transfer VOD content, even if it's the same show that I could have recorded off the broadcast channel

- The GenieGo app might randomly decide that I need to connect to my home network again before I can watch any more content

The expiration is especially annoying. Really, I have to re-transfer all of the Peg+Cat episodes to my son's iPad every month just so he can keep watching them?

The only thing the GenieGo has in its favor is that it's free. It's up to everyone to decide how much annoyance they're willing to put up with to save a few bucks.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

munangst said:


> Methods that* don't *require an Internet connection to watch:
> - Transfer it with GenieGo
> - Buy it for $2 from Google Play
> - Torrent it and copy the MP4 file to the Nexus 7


those last two methods * do *require an internet connection, at least to start the process

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

To save all the angst, box it up and put it away or sell it. Then, peace out!


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

Actually my last name is "Unangst" -- or "Un-angst" if you like -- so I'm not too worried about the Genie's deficiencies.  It just frustrates me because the product could be SO much better. (While we're at it, why can't I permanently move or copy shows from one DVR to another?)

And yes, I'm assuming that we all have an Internet connection when we're on our home network and can connect to the Genie. I don't think that's too unreasonable.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

munangst said:


> Actually my last name is "Unangst" -- or "Un-angst" if you like -- so I'm not too worried about the Genie's deficiencies.  It just frustrates me because the product could be SO much better. (While we're at it, why can't I permanently move or copy shows from one DVR to another?)
> 
> And yes, I'm assuming that we all have an Internet connection when we're on our home network and can connect to the Genie. I don't think that's too unreasonable.
> 
> Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


we have discussed this ad nauseam


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

And yet the problem still exists........


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

trh said:


> And yet the problem still exists........


is not like is up to us to fix it...


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

And now this is making me wonder... What if the reason for the 1:1 transcoding time isn't the GenieGo, but that the only way for it to get the show OUT of the DVR it's in is to request a MRV stream and "watch" the show? Does whatever API the DVR provides to "external devices" even allow transferring a program in better than real-time? (Not counting FF mode since that doesn't transfer the complete original stream.)

Caveat: I don't know anything about the real implementation so this is just speculation. 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

munangst said:


> Caveat: I don't know anything about the real implementation so this is just speculation.


I know nothing more than you do, but I'd bet good money that the GenieGo does things the way what it does more to sidestep TiVo and Sling patents than because of any real technical limitations in the DVR platform.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

munangst said:


> And now this is making me wonder... What if the reason for the 1:1 transcoding time isn't the GenieGo, but that the only way for it to get the show OUT of the DVR it's in is to request a MRV stream and "watch" the show? Does whatever API the DVR provides to "external devices" even allow transferring a program in better than real-time? (Not counting FF mode since that doesn't transfer the complete original stream.)
> 
> Caveat: I don't know anything about the real implementation so this is just speculation.
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


The genie go is first gen and old tech. I imagine it was in development a long time. I'd bet that's the reason you have 1:1.


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