# Leased 942 for $249 and now pay $299 for new HDS Feb 1 - NO WAY



## bookwalk (May 10, 2005)

I am really disappointed in this deal for 942 leasors! According to Egren on Chat--after we just paid $249 for the 942, we will have to pay another $299 to get the new HD channels Feb 1.

This on top of the rate increase, loss of Lifetime. He was worried about raising rates to get it back because more customers complained about high costs--well, sure -- taxes due, higher heating and gas costs and what does he do?

Outrageous--NEVER. NO. I will have to do without HD and now what do I do with this 942? I can't afford the $299 on top of the $249 I already paid. 

Do I then get NO HD or do I pay for the whole package even though I can't get it?

What is his email adress anyway?


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## jakexxl (Nov 29, 2005)

if you wait until April 1st, the upgrade will only be $99 ... still not free but obviously better than $299.


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## MadScientist (Dec 1, 2004)

I think if I saw and read right that you would get a 200 rebate making the price of an up-grade of $99.00.

My question is if this is a lease what is the charge per/month???


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yes ... net $99 if you will wait for April 1st.

JL


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## Alpaca Bill (Jun 17, 2005)

Several unanswered questions:

1) For those with multiple 921/942s, can you do multiple rebates? For example, I own two 921s and want to upgrade to two ViP622s will the cost be $198 ($99 x 2) or $398 ($99 + $299) or slightly less since both prices include installation and Dish1000 which we would obviously only need one of so will they "credit" the $50 or so?

2) Any recurring monthly lease fees with these deals?

3) Any annual discounts like there are now? (i.e. pay for 11 mos and get 12th "free")


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## bookwalk (May 10, 2005)

What about people who already paid for the extra dish back in May? Now they are paying again as the $299 includes the dish. Why can't there be some other option, such as using the existing Dish set up and just swapping out the receivers for a lot less than $299. Even $99 is not the "cost of a service call" Charlie stated--with my DHPP, that should ony be $29. April 1-- taxes due, heating costs, etc, etc--can't cough up $299, so what happens to my HD with my 942? Can I get ANY HD with the 942 I have?


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

MadScientist said:


> I think if I saw and read right that you would get a 200 rebate making the price of an up-grade of $99.00.
> 
> My question is if this is a lease what is the charge per/month???


My understanding is you only have to pay a lease fee if the leased receiver is the only one you have. If you have more than one receiver, you only have to pay the addtional receiver fee on the leased unit, which is the same as you would pay if you owned the receiver.


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## cleblanc (Dec 18, 2003)

bookwalk said:


> What about people who already paid for the extra dish back in May? Now they are paying again as the $299 includes the dish. Why can't there be some other option, such as using the existing Dish set up and just swapping out the receivers for a lot less than $299. Even $99 is not the "cost of a service call" Charlie stated--with my DHPP, that should ony be $29.


Exactly, after purchasing an 811 and then a 921 (for $1000) I leased a 942 several months ago for an added $250. I then paid $100 for the second dish. I do not need the install. I only need to swap receivers. I am very unclear what the rules are in this situation. Are the upgrades leases or purchases. Do you trade like for like or do owners who have already paid 3 times get totally screwed. The offers tonight sound great for someone who does not have a second dish or who has not purchased their equipment at full price (several times over). We need more options. I would gladly commit to an upgraded HD pack in exchange for just swapping receivers. I have no need for installs.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

are you sure they have to wait until april or they wont be handing out rebates until april?


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## bookwalk (May 10, 2005)

You don't have to wait til April, but you have to dish out $299 right away. Even with the rebate and $99, that's a "sting" for those of us who had to add an extra dish and pay the lease fee not so long ago, when all we need to do is swap out the receivers--with no install needed, so how about $29 instead of $99? what is Charlie's email address? He said to email him.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

So is that confirmed that we can just pay $299 now and get the rebate later? Or do we have to wait until April to get the rebate?


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

lakebum431 said:


> So is that confirmed that we can just pay $299 now and get the rebate later? Or do we have to wait until April to get the rebate?


I don't think that was clear from the chat.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I would not call it confirmed.
Graphic - "Good things come to those who wait"

Charlie: "If I'm going to call up in March, I'm going to pay $299. If I wait until April I get it for free and I pay $99 for the install."
Jim: "You save $200 - the total is $99."

WAIT UNTIL APRIL!

JL


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

cleblanc said:


> Exactly, after purchasing an 811 and then a 921 (for $1000) I leased a 942 several months ago for an added $250. I then paid $100 for the second dish. I do not need the install. I only need to swap receivers. I am very unclear what the rules are in this situation. Are the upgrades leases or purchases. Do you trade like for like or do owners who have already paid 3 times get totally screwed. The offers tonight sound great for someone who does not have a second dish or who has not purchased their equipment at full price (several times over). We need more options. I would gladly commit to an upgraded HD pack in exchange for just swapping receivers. I have no need for installs.


The graphic clearly said that is was a 622 LEASE deal, according to others if it is your only reciever there is a $5 Lease fee but if not there is no additional fee. I have never leased a reciever from them so I can't confirm that part of it. I suspect that by April 15th the CSRs should have this all figured out.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

James Long said:


> I would not call it confirmed.
> Graphic - "Good things come to those who wait"
> 
> Charlie: "If I'm going to call up in March, I'm going to pay $299. If I wait until April I get it for free and I pay $99 for the install."
> ...


I see, well, that stinks! I guess I will go 3 more months without new channels. Grrrrr!


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## LAM (Feb 6, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> I see, well, that stinks! I guess I will go 3 more months without new channels. Grrrrr!


622 receivers are't even available for dealers till after 2-1-06. There will be back-orders till April. I don"t think you will find one till then anyway.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Yeah, you may be right, but it sounds like we can't even order until after April 1st if we want the rebate. That means we may not get the receivers until May or June or July. . .


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## LAM (Feb 6, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> Yeah, you may be right, but it sounds like we can't even order until after April 1st if we want the rebate. That means we may not get the receivers until May or June or July. . .


A week ago I could only get 411 recevers only, not vip211. There almost identical.

Dealer chat is thursday and we are in the dark how this will all work on paper till then.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

But now the 411 is now discontinued. What are you saying?


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## LAM (Feb 6, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> Yeah, you may be right, but it sounds like we can't even order until after April 1st if we want the rebate. That means we may not get the receivers until May or June or July. . .


There is a dealer chat thursday and till then we are the dark how this will work on paper for qualifing customers. This chat was a little ahead of its time.


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## LAM (Feb 6, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> But now the 411 is now discontinued. What are you saying?


The vip211 is not even available in good quanities yet. It was released 12-15-05.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> But now the 411 is now discontinued. What are you saying?


The 411 is a ViP211 with one small difference (ok, two if you count the model number label on the front). There is no ethernet port on the 411 to remain inactive until E* figures out what to do with it.

JL


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Yeah, that is valid. Are you a dealer (I assume)? I'm also wondering if we will be better off, trying to get the 622 from dealers or straight from DISH (considering the rebate).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Since the rebate doesn't start until April 1st and they have not worked out the details "wait" seems to be the best advice. The rebate may work with purchases from dealers or not. Right now no dealer is offering $299 for 'everything you need' so Dish seems to be the best option.

BTW: I'm not a dealer, just a fan.

JL


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Sorry for the confusion JL, I was actually talking about LAM. But I agree with what you're saying, I just didn't know what the past tells us in this area. Has DISH ever offered rebates before (I'm pretty new to DISH sorry for the simple question)? If so, were they available from the local retailers also?


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## voripteth (Oct 25, 2005)

James Long said:


> Charlie: "If I'm going to call up in March, I'm going to pay $299. If I wait until April I get it for free and I pay $99 for the install."
> Jim: "You save $200 - the total is $99."


The way I took it was anyone could get the rebate but they just wouldn't be processed until April. If you buy in March then Dish gets to keep your $200 for a month + however long it takes to process the rebate.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

voripteth said:


> The way I took it was anyone could get the rebate but they just wouldn't be processed until April. If you buy in March then Dish gets to keep your $200 for a month + however long it takes to process the rebate.


Do that at your own risk.

The plain spoken words were WAIT.
The screen slide said WAIT.
If you don't wait come back whining that you did not get the rebate.

JL


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

lakebum431 said:


> Has DISH ever offered rebates before (I'm pretty new to DISH sorry for the simple question)?


Not that I recall. Also, as the co-founder of the company said, "we know who you are," so I don't see a need for them or their customers to be put through the hassle. Previous offer discounts have been applied up-front and based on qualifying factors such as time as a subscriber, increasing your programming, no longer able to view channels switched to 8PSK, having CCAP, lengthening your commitment, etc.


> If so, were they available from the local retailers also?


Off the top of my head I want to say most have been but I don't have much to base that on. I hope this one will be.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Quit your whining. Around here, you'll find a number of members who purchased a 921 when they were $1,000 and then after suffering through that POS, plunked down $700 or so to get a 942.

John


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Is that directed at someone in particalur, or just a general comment? I see no whining in the 3 prior posts visible on this page, but am I allowed to if I got the $1K 921 but skipped the 942?


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

JM Anthony said:


> Quit your whining. Around here, you'll find a number of members who purchased a 921 when they were $1,000 and then after suffering through that POS, plunked down $700 or so to get a 942.
> 
> John


Anyone who plunked down $700 on a 942 after spending $1000 on the 921 can't be surprised. The first thing everyone asked when the 942 came out was whether it would decode Mpeg4. The answer was no and everyone declared it a victim of Osborne syndrome when it was released.

Anyone who got one had to know that it was a short term purchase. Just as predicted, it will still work for another year or two, you will just miss out on additional channels which may or may not be important to you.

If you didn't do enough research and bought a 942 not knowing the long term plan, than just wait until April and it will only cost you $99. As far as Buyer's Remorse goes, that is a pretty cheap cost. I can't tell you how many times I bought a computer at Christmas time, and then saw dramatic price drops or performance increases 45 days later when they announced the next generation of equipment at CES. It's the nature of the tech beast......

The $1000 921 was worth it to me as I got two years of an HD PVR. I plan on swapping an old 4900 for the new 622, and retiring my 921 to the closet until I upgrade my bedroom TV around Christmas I'm guessing, or until I run another feed to my bedroom (a 510 there right now only needs one).


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

This information is third hand so I don't vouch for it's accuracy but I just read on another site that someone sent an e-mail to [email protected] about the upgrade from a 942 to a 622 and a Dish employee called them back today. That person was supposedly told that we would be permitted to upgrade to a 622 prior to April 1 for $299 and and still recieve the $200 rebate after April 1. There was no firm date from the Dish employee as to when the 622 would be available.

If this is true it is good news to me because I am going to get the 622 as soon as Dish will give me one and it will be nice to get the rebate, even if I have to wait for a couple of months.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

IIRC: CSRs are still telling people that the 942 *is* MPEG4 compatable ... GET IT IN WRITING!

JL


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## MarkoC (Apr 5, 2004)

James Long said:


> IIRC: CSRs are still telling people that the 942 *is* MPEG4 compatable ... GET IT IN WRITING!
> 
> JL


I agree that your skepticism is warranted, however the person that supposedly said this was not a CSR, but someone from the executive office. I would hope that this person would know what they are talking about but you never know . . .


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

BobMurdoch said:


> Anyone who plunked down $700 on a 942 after spending $1000 on the 921 can't be surprised. The first thing everyone asked when the 942 came out was whether it would decode Mpeg4. The answer was no and everyone declared it a victim of Osborne syndrome when it was released. . . .


Bob, with both of these acquisitions, I knew what I was getting into. I knew the 921 was problematic, but expected E* would produce better/faster fixes. When I bought the 942, I knew it would have a relatively short life, but to be honest, I didn't expect it to be quite that short. What's disappointing to me, is that E* isn't providing a better upgrade path for those of us who have long term investments in their hardware and services. I've been with these dudes since '96.

And like you, I tend to be on the leading edge with my A/V gear. We've invested quite a bit in our family room and home theater set up and I'd just as soon watch a good movie at home as in a local movie house. And besides, I make better popcorn with REAL butter. 

John


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Maybe it's just me, but I think a 99 dollar upgrade from the 921/942 to the 622 is more than reasonable. I've also owned both 921 and 942.

Ken


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## pjm877 (Apr 27, 2003)

kstevens said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I think a 99 dollar upgrade from the 921/942 to the 622 is more than reasonable. I've also owned both 921 and 942.
> 
> Ken


That might be true, but a leased 942 at $249 upgraded to a 622 for the bottom line price of $99. On the other hand a bought 942 at $600 to a leasted 622 for the botton line of $99 is quite different.

so leased to mpeg4 is $358 and bought to a leased mpeg4 is $699... I want an extra rebate? $400 they get the unit back, $100 and I keep the unit.

When I got the 942, a leased version was not an option, being kicked around that they might not allow it to be leased... and mpeg4 was being told on the chats as being at least 2+ years away, not the 9 months I think it turn out to be.

Now why is the 622 only coming out with a 250Gb drive... 300, 400 are common and I understand a 1Tb is to be here before summer..

YO, Dish wake up.. look what Tivo is doing... external SATA connection for added HDTV recording space. NOTE: Any external SATA unit.. not a fancy formated Dish only drive.

I will wait and see what Dish is going to offer the customers that bought there 941/942 units.

I can see the day that the 941/942 will only work for OTA and non Hi-Def channels from DISH.. they will start encodeing all Hi-Def into mpeg4... I give them 6 months. then you have a door stop unit.

later


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

Okey doke. I've read many threads and still can't get this straight, so I'll ask outright:

I own my 921. If I go for the $99 (AR) upgrade to the 622, will I then be on a lease plan, or will I own my 622 outright? Hopefully, i'll own it and not be subject to a leasing cost. Being backed into a lease corner may make me reconsider my DBS options.

Michael


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

mwsmith2 said:


> Okey doke. I've read many threads and still can't get this straight, so I'll ask outright:
> 
> I own my 921. If I go for the $99 (AR) upgrade to the 622, will I then be on a lease plan, or will I own my 622 outright? Hopefully, i'll own it and not be subject to a leasing cost. Being backed into a lease corner may make me reconsider my DBS options.
> 
> Michael


As of now you would be considered a lessor, but the $5 extra outlet fee, is replaced by the $5 Leased Receiver Fee, so it's a wash. But you will not own the 622, and have to send it back if you cancel your service.

The reason I said, "as of now" is becasue that is how the deal has been announced. Charlie said that if us 921/942 owners didn't like it to let him know. I did just that and hope that many other do the same; write to [email protected]. The other problem with the deal is that I purchased two 942's and they will only offer the lease deal to me on one of them. I would need to go out and purchase another ViP622 at full retail. This sucks!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bookwalk said:


> Do I then get NO HD or do I pay for the whole package even though I can't get it?


Nothing changes for those who don't upgrade their receiver. This was stressed during the chat.


> What is his email adress anyway?


Charlie mentioned it during the chat.


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## mwgiii (Jul 19, 2002)

Alpaca Bill said:


> Several unanswered questions:
> 
> 1) For those with multiple 921/942s, can you do multiple rebates? For example, I own two 921s and want to upgrade to two ViP622s will the cost be $198 ($99 x 2) or $398 ($99 + $299) or slightly less since both prices include installation and Dish1000 which we would obviously only need one of so will they "credit" the $50 or so?


You will only be allowed *1 leased MPEG4* receiver per account. If you need more than 1 MPEG4 receiver you will have to pay retail price for it, per EchoStar


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

DVDDAD said:


> As of now you would be considered a lessor, but the $5 extra outlet fee, is replaced by the $5 Leased Receiver Fee, so it's a wash.


Bleh. I only have one receiver in the house. So I have to pay $99 for the privlege of leasing a receiver. What a load of bunk. If we have to lease, we shouldn't have to pay squat. This is smelling worse all the time. I'll take your suggestion and drop a line to Charlie. I just don't like the lease idea...I'd like it more if there was some sort of hardware plan, but who knows how long you are going to be stuck with that receiver.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Regarding leasing vs owning...

I know someone in my family who had DirecTV on two different occassions... and each time when their owned receivers died, DirecTV essentially told them to go pound sand and tough luck. The only reason they tried a second time with DirecTV was because they were told "things were different"... but history repeated itself.

Based on another thread I saw elsewhere on this forum, it would appear DirecTV is going more to a leased-receiver model soon... so the comparisons between Dish & DirecTV in regards to leases may become more similar.


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## audiomaster (Jun 24, 2004)

1.How does "Dish Comm" work? And will it interfere with X10 remote control signals on the power line?

2. If I am correct, the unit does not receive OTA analog. It only passes through analog to the RF output. This is going to mean switching inputs on the TV receiver for analog. Where I am I can't get solid digital OTA but I can get analog. Wonder where Charlotte is in the cue for Dish locals? And is the RF out assignable to any channel (like a modulator) or just the typical channel 3-4?

3. I thinkl I will clutch my 811 close to me for a while longer till the bugs are worked out of both the hardware and the customer reps information!!

4. If you paid $1000.00 for a 921 and $700.00 for a 942, could I sell you some space in my garden? I'm going to put it up for sale by the square inch like that land in the swamp in Florida.


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## JimD (Apr 8, 2005)

HDMe said:


> Regarding leasing vs owning...
> 
> I know someone in my family who had DirecTV on two different occassions... and each time when their owned receivers died, DirecTV essentially told them to go pound sand and tough luck. The only reason they tried a second time with DirecTV was because they were told "things were different"... but history repeated itself.
> 
> Based on another thread I saw elsewhere on this forum, it would appear DirecTV is going more to a leased-receiver model soon... so the comparisons between Dish & DirecTV in regards to leases may become more similar.


I pay a $1.99 monthly fee for "extended warranty". By virtue of this, Dish is obligated to repair any of my Dish hardware if it fails. I would expect this covers my owned 942 also.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

JM Anthony said:


> Bob, with both of these acquisitions, I knew what I was getting into. I knew the 921 was problematic, but expected E* would produce better/faster fixes. When I bought the 942, I knew it would have a relatively short life, but to be honest, I didn't expect it to be quite that short. What's disappointing to me, is that E* isn't providing a better upgrade path for those of us who have long term investments in their hardware and services. I've been with these dudes since '96.
> 
> And like you, I tend to be on the leading edge with my A/V gear. We've invested quite a bit in our family room and home theater set up and I'd just as soon watch a good movie at home as in a local movie house. And besides, I make better popcorn with REAL butter.
> 
> John


John.. if you went into it with your eyes open, then I don't see what you expect? You want Dish to treat you better, but how much better than $99 in April for a $6-700 reciever? Do you want it for free? As far as I can see if you really understood all the ramafications of your actions, you shouldn't have anything to complain about.

I bought my 942 last April-May, and I'll get a year out of it. Assuming that I get a 622 for $99, and keep the 942, I'll move my 942 to another room and get an HD Monitor for cheap somewhere and move my 508 out. Then I expect to perhaps get another year (2007) out of my 942 before I replace it with another 622 or whatever model available that makes sense at that time.

I also don't have to be bleeding edge, I saw the 921 had issues and while I really wanted an HD DVR, I stuck with a 6000 and then an 811 until the 942 appeared to be stable platform, while its had issues, my 942 for my needs has worked very well and I have not seen the need to nit-pick it to death as so many others have in the forums. The only issue that continues to bug me is the squished video on tv2 in single mode.. Hopefully the 622 will resolve this..

I don't even mind the wait till April and I might not even call the first day, might wait a week and get a install later in the month.. I don't need it instantly, its only TV.. my life doesn't revolve around which channels I can or cannot watch because I don't have the latest tech.

I suspect that as the VIP reciever's hit the street in a few weeks we'll read of reciever issues, sloppy installs, upgrade issues, and who knows what else.. Though I could probably guess at a few more.

have a good day...


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

E* has always had problems with "Version 1.0" of any new type of receiver (with the exception of some of the non PVR receivers). Hopefully, the only thing really different about this is that it has a mpeg4 chip installed which should give us hope that it will be more stable than previous hardware initial releases.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

normang said:


> John.. if you went into it with your eyes open, then I don't see what you expect? You want Dish to treat you better, but how much better than $99 in April for a $6-700 reciever? Do you want it for free? As far as I can see if you really understood all the ramafications of your actions, you shouldn't have anything to complain about. . . .


I want a 622 for free. Given all that I've invested in their hardware over the years as well as their programming, why shouldn't I expect to get preferential treatment. The sweet deals more often than not go to new customers, but I wonder what constant churn does to the bottom line for cable and satellite companies. I think they'd be better off to demonstrate better customer retention strategies to avoid that problem. I've been a loyal customer at Nordstroms and a high end A/V company (Magnolia A/V who I've been doing business with since 1967). The reasons? They stand behind their products. Always. And they treat their long term customers very, very well.

This isn't rocket science.

John


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

JM Anthony said:


> I want a 622 for free. Given all that I've invested in their hardware over the years as well as their programming, why shouldn't I expect to get preferential treatment. The sweet deals more often than not go to new customers, but I wonder what constant churn does to the bottom line for cable and satellite companies. I think they'd be better off to demonstrate better customer retention strategies to avoid that problem. I've been a loyal customer at Nordstroms and a high end A/V company (Magnolia A/V who I've been doing business with since 1967). The reasons? They stand behind their products. Always. And they treat their long term customers very, very well.
> 
> This isn't rocket science.
> 
> John


Does Nordstroms or Magnolia give you free replacements for old products that you bought from them? Just curious. Maybe I should shop there if they give free stuff to regular customers to replace their old purchases.

Not saying I don't sympathize with people who bought 942s or 921s recently for full price... but this happens every day with all kinds of products. My laptop computer was out of date within a couple of months. Faster & cheaper models came out as they always do. Same with my TV, VCR, DVD player, microwave oven, refrigerator, washer & dryer, and any number of other things around the house I can think of... but I don't figure I'm entitled to free ones every time a new model comes out just because I patronize the company (lots of GE appliances and Toshiba product in my house).


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

JM Anthony said:


> I want a 622 for free. Given all that I've invested in their hardware over the years as well as their programming, why shouldn't I expect to get preferential treatment. The sweet deals more often than not go to new customers, but I wonder what constant churn does to the bottom line for cable and satellite companies. I think they'd be better off to demonstrate better customer retention strategies to avoid that problem. I've been a loyal customer at Nordstroms and a high end A/V company (Magnolia A/V who I've been doing business with since 1967). The reasons? They stand behind their products. Always. And they treat their long term customers very, very well. This isn't rocket science. John


Name another company that will give you free stuff just to keep you around? Magnolia, do they give you a free TV or stereo the next time a new model of your favorite line comes out? Perhaps because they know you, they give you a discount, which may or may not come close to online discounts I've seen in comparison to the brick & mortar stores.

Nordstrom's does have excellent customer service, but are they really giving you something for free when you walk in the door? And last time I looked, neither Magnolia or Nordstrom's provides the lowest prices around, your paying for the priveleges of perhaps having that wonderful customer service, its not only just because you walk in the door and you have name and face recognition.

I think Dish is trying to provide reasonable deals as they migrate to a new hardware platform. I don't think you can reasonably expect just because you've been a long time customer to get something for nothing.. However, if your not going to except anything else, its free or your gone, let me know if the grass is really greener somewhere else..


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## pjm877 (Apr 27, 2003)

HDMe said:


> Does Nordstroms or Magnolia give you free replacements for old products that you bought from them? Just curious. Maybe I should shop there if they give free stuff to regular customers to replace their old purchases.
> 
> .


I could see your point if the 942 could be used for anything else. TV, with OTA and cable card option can be used for other things...

case in point.. if you could buy the cable card for hummm say a $50 one time fee and not have that $$ a month... good deal.. then 8 months, poof.. a change and you can only get 2/3's of packages now.. still the same $$ per month just the new would be nice to watch that football game station is being paid for but can't be decoded... what are you to do?

or

Ponder this... Dish changes something major with the transmission feed.. now only the new units will be able to decode correctly... you will now be required to LEASE all new hardware... trash out the old.. one month old, one year old.. no choice.. you bought it Dec and the change mandate was on the chat Jan... now yours to use as book ends come March... I know not going to happen... maybe??

Over the years I have had some equ. changed out for free, because of a network change.

As I understand it... there might only really be one major change from the 942 to the 622, and that is a chip.. one sq. 1" chip that has the code to decode mpeg4.

I have a 942 bought (was the only option at that time)... I sure would like to get the replacement not on a leased plan, but I guess I will follow the herd and get the lease.. but boy is it going to cost Dish $$$.. new dishes, new LNB's, new $$$ switch.. I am sure I will come out ahead for my $99. I know.. I know.. they get plenty of blood out of me each month... They will have it made up it three months, or mark it down as a exp. and write it off.

So here is how I hope it goes down... I get the ANT equ. changed out, a Leased 622 at $99 because I have a 942, I get to keep that 942 and put it in place of the 721... yes I know that will cost me $72+ more each year for the unit/dvr fee... as the 721 only has the extra unit fee and not the DVR fee.

now to wait for 02/2006 to 04/2006 to see what the final word is on the mpeg4 upgrade options are.

Later, and ya'll have a nice day/evening... it sure has been fun reading.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

HDMe said:


> Does Nordstroms or Magnolia give you free replacements for old products that you bought from them? Just curious. Maybe I should shop there if they give free stuff to regular customers to replace their old purchases. . . .


Nordstrom's isn't a service provider per se. I suspect Dish makes more revenue off of their subscriptions than they do their hardware. But that's just my guess, you guys may know otherwise.

Magnolia does service their equipment and others' and I suspect it's a pretty good revenue source for them. In those rare instance where I've needed to have my A/V gear serviced, I do go to them. Not because they are the cheapest, just the best. While I've never purchased a lemon from them, my strong belief is that if they sold me something as problematic as the 921 was that they'd replace it free of charge in a heartbeat. Quality companies build loyal customers based on how they'd want to be treated if they were in similar circumstances.

See, it's really not that tough.

John


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Let me make sure I don't get misinterpreted...

Folks that I've seen who purchased 921 receivers and had lots of problems with them... you have a beef with Dish that is valid. Some folks I gather took their receivers back for refunds because of the problems... other people were more patient and gave Dish a chance to fix bugs.

IF Dish didn't/doesn't fix things for those customers, then I understand where you are coming from in being irritated.

I also would understand if they were turning off all MPEG2 on 2-1 and saying none of our receivers would work and we had to pay for channels we couldn't watch... but that isn't what they announced.

For the moment, what has been announced is new channels that require new receivers that we aren't forced to buy. At some point in the future they may force us to upgrade, but they haven't done that yet... so until such time as they make *that* kind of announcement, I can't get mad at them for what they are doing.

I can question their deployment strategy and the timing of it all... but not so much the offer in and of itself.

I've bought lots of Western Digital hard drives for my computer... but they come out with faster ones and larger capacity every year. Some new software requires more hard drive space or faster access time to run properly... but I don't feel justified going to Western Digital and demanding brand new hard drives to replace my old ones.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

One can debate the fairness of the MPEG4 Dish offers till the end of time, it just comes down to, some people based on their understanding feel that the current deal isn't good enough, but the transisition has to be made anyway, or otherwise with limited offerings DBS will just go away, if Dish were the only company doing this, and D* wasn't, then the issue would change as well..

I just don't understand this entitlement mentality, that somehow Dish owes us anything, the number of analogies that one can come up with for other companies that routinely upgrade hardware and customers never have a choice, you have to sell that brand new whatever for whatever you can get if you want the latest and greatest. If your lucky, you might come close to breaking even.. 

Dish is offering transistion options, could they be better? Perhaps, but they are trying to ease into the transistion to MPEG4 and there is always someone - somewhere, that will get the shortend of any signficant change.. They do have to cover the cost of all this somehow.. its not free to them is it?....


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Lets see I bought a $999.00 921 that was little more than a digital vcr in 2003or 2004 . I traded it in to get a 942 for $749.99 in April of 2005 . Then paid another $699.00 to get my 2nd 942 in July of 2005 . I paid over $2447.99 in the last two or three years to have the latest greatest hd receivers. 

Now Dish wants me to trade in my owned receivers and Pay for the privilege at $99.99 to GIVE them my $749.00 942 receiver to get the new vip622 hd receiver that sees both mpeg4 and mpeg2. Oh , I can only get one of them at that price , & I still need to pay another $699.00 to get another 622 at a retailer so I can replace both of my hd receivers for both of my hd tvs. 

So let's tally this up. I will pay all together a whopping $3245.99 to have the latest and greatest hd receivers from Dish. I don't know I may sound like I am whining, but to pay all this money and to find I only own one of the new receivers and I am Leasing the other , just seems like a whole lot of money to pay just so I can watch tv on the cheaper of the two satellite providers. :eek2: 

Some how I think I am entitled to some freebees from Dish after 9 years of service , 3 accounts I pay a month and multiple upgrades over the years to the latest and greatest Dish receivers.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Lets see I bought a $999.00 921 that was little more than a digital vcr in 2003or 2004 . I traded it in to get a 942 for $749.99 in April of 2005 . Then paid another $699.00 to get my 2nd 942 in July of 2005 . I paid over $2447.99 in the last two or three years to have the latest greatest hd receivers.
> 
> Now Dish wants me to trade in my owned receivers and Pay for the privilege at $99.99 to GIVE them my $749.00 942 receiver to get the new vip622 hd receiver that sees both mpeg4 and mpeg2. Oh , I can only get one of them at that price , & I still need to pay another $699.00 to get another 622 at a retailer so I can replace both of my hd receivers for both of my hd tvs.
> 
> ...


Not saying I don't empathise with you...

but... you didn't have to buy a 921 did you? And you could have leased a 942 instead of buying at full price perhaps? And even if not, you didn't have to buy it did you?

I have been using my 6000u for several years... I bought that at around $900 or so (covered the receiver purchase + my 61.5 satellite dish install that was required then)... so I'm not alien to the concept of having spent a bunch of money.

But the stereo in my car doesn't have satellite radio capabilities... should I take it back to the local GM dealer and demand a free satellite radio receiver? Also, the CD player will play CD-Rs but not MP3s... so should I demand a new CD player as well?

I am still paying for my car... so I am paying monthly for it and a lot! So maybe I'm even entitled to a brand new car for all the money I spent?

Oh, same goes for my house... I'm buying it, and paying a lot for it... but there are some better houses being built now so maybe the builders should trade me for a new bigger house since I've been a good customer and spent so much for this one?

While I would LOVE Dish to give me a bunch of free stuff... and I do agree some of their upgrade offers could be more attractive... I don't see how anyone can really feel they are owed anything.


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

People need to realize that some of us purchased outright our 942 immediately after the tech chat a couple months ago in which we were assured that it would be a long time before mpeg-4. This assurance came from the chief technologists from Echostar. I am very happy with my 942, but I have been waiting for Universal HD and would like to get it soon. I am not blaming anyone, plans change. I'll see if there is a good deal for those of us who want to continue to own. If not, I'll purchase a 622 in Feb if there are any available.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

wkomorow said:


> People need to realize that some of us purchased outright our 942 immediately after the tech chat a couple months ago in which we were assured that it would be a long time before mpeg-4. This assurance came from the chief technologists from Echostar. I am very happy with my 942, but I have been waiting for Universal HD and would like to get it soon. I am not blaming anyone, plans change. I'll see if there is a good deal for those of us who want to continue to own. If not, I'll purchase a 622 in Feb if there are any available.


I don't recall hearing any assurances that MPEG4 was a long way off at any point, I could have missed it. I've was saying a year to 18 months when this all started when the 942 first appeared and MPEG4 was already being discussed back in April-May 05. My prediction was nearly correct and right on if I consider April the time to upgrade based on current offerings for me...

This also comes back to what is wrong with what you have until such time as things stabilize a little more.. a 942 will still give you local HD forever (unless something else changes) The current HD programming has no specified date as to when it will convert to MPEG4, and I would think it would be a while until Dish knows that they've got most of the HD Pack customers running VIP Gear.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There is at least one online retailer offering ViP-622's to own with the opportunity to trade in a 921 or 942 for a discount on the sale.

Since ViP-622's are not available to anyone outside of E* at this time no retailer can be honoring such an offer. Perhaps that offer will change with the plan to no longer offer the existing MPEG2 HD packs after February 1st.

BTW: Here is a scenario E* doesn't want to see happen.
1) Customer owns a 942 and calls E* for a $99 (after rebate) ViP-622
2) Customer is not required to return 942 so he sells it to a friend
3) Friend now owns a 942 and calls E* for a $99 (after rebate) ViP-622
4) Friend is not required to return 942 so he sells it to another friend
E* is out $400 so far and there are still more friends to come.

How does E* stop such a multiple trade deal? Options:
1) Limit the rebate to one per receiver R00 number - once a receiver has generated a rebate it cannot be used for a second rebate
2) Allow cutomers to keep their trade in receiver on the account but refuse to activate 942's and 921's after Feb 1st, eliminating the resale value.
3) Require the customer's 942 be deactivated and refuse to activate 942's and 921's after Feb 1st, giving all of them the value of an electronic rock.

#1 would allow the customer to sell their 942 but would end the multiple rebate problem. It would not help get 942's off of the market.
#2 would be nice as a customer could move the 942 to a second room and have at least some of their DishHD package available there. Giving the customer $200 off the main offer and a second HD outlet.
#3 would make the receiver worthless ... the question comes down to who's trash can it goes in, your's or E*'s


JL


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

James. If I had my druthers.. I would pick the scenario where I would keep my 942 until it became an electronic boat anchor.. If that was a couple years down the road, that works for me.. This assumes that the $99 program lets me keep my purchased 942.. 

The other question is, is the goal to get all 942 & 921's out of the market?


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## wkomorow (Apr 22, 2002)

normang said:


> I don't recall hearing any assurances that MPEG4 was a long way off at any point, I could have missed it. I've was saying a year to 18 months when this all started when the 942 first appeared and MPEG4 was already being discussed back in April-May 05. My prediction was nearly correct and right on if I consider April the time to upgrade based on current offerings for me...
> 
> This also comes back to what is wrong with what you have until such time as things stabilize a little more.. a 942 will still give you local HD forever (unless something else changes) The current HD programming has no specified date as to when it will convert to MPEG4, and I would think it would be a while until Dish knows that they've got most of the HD Pack customers running VIP Gear.


Quoting JL's transcript of the november tech chat:



> The falicy of MPEG4 is there has been a lot of hype in the press and in the marketplace about MPEG4. The issue is, is that while we can build a set top box that works great with MPEG4, the encoders aren't there yet to really support some of the press that you see that you'll get 50 to 100% more efficiency in the allocated bandwidth. The encoders aren't there yet. Today they are promising 20% with over time they will be getting better and better and better - every year they will get a little bit better. Right now they are only looking like 20%.
> 
> So what we have done is that we've deployed a technology for many years called 8PSK Turbo Code. And what that allows us to do - we can take our existing capacity and get 30-40% efficiency improvement. The same thing that MPEG4 will give us for the next two years, we believe. And guess what? Most of you guys out there already have this technology in your set top box - because - what Dan, we've been shipping it for how many years?


"The same thing that MPEG4 will give us for the next two years, we believe. " To me that says that MPEG-4 was not expected to be an immediate solution for HD and Dish. I actually waited for the technical chat before making a decision to purchase the 942. But, again, I will simply purchase a new receiver outright. And, true the current receiver will allow me to continue to receive my current programming. I do want Universal HD, however.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The push to make all new channels MPEG4 and require MPEG4 receivers to subscribe to said channels is more of a marketing decision for the day that MPEG2 goes away. This "marketing decision" has been predicted for a while as well.

There ARE channels in the new package that will be 'true' MPEG4 and selling the DishHD packages only to MPEG4 receiver owners gives E* total freedom to use whatever encoding is best. If someone makes a leap forward in MPEG4 encoding that passes MPEG2 or (in the case of VoomHD) if pre-encoded libraries are built in MPEG4 that don't suffer from the encoding difficulties E* reported in November they can move more channels over to 'true' MPEG4 in a heartbeat.

I do wish that E* had not made it so difficult for existing customers to lease a 942. There would be less 942 owners to deal with. The 942's should have gone lease only a long time ago.

JL


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## hdaddikt (Jul 2, 2005)

Going back to Nordstrom's, or more appropriately Magnolia A/V, now if you could walk into Magnolia and view satellite receivers at competitive prices that would work with either Dish or Direct using standardized interfaces, then I would be happy!


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

wkomorow said:


> Quoting JL's transcript of the november tech chat:
> 
> I actually waited for the technical chat before making a decision to purchase the 942. But, again, I will simply purchase a new receiver outright. And, true the current receiver will allow me to continue to receive my current programming. I do want Universal HD, however.


Somehow I read that quote differently than you do, and unless JL quoted that verbatim, even then the wording to me does not specifically say that MPEG4 was down the road a couple years. The MPEG4 Discussion as I recall has been going on for at least 14 months, maybe longer..

However, as I see it, your 942 could easily last a year or more and better deals to get you to move to a VIP box may come down the pike as the transistion to move all other channels to MPEG4 starts.. The only thing there is whether you just can't wait for some HD channel thats coming down the pike in MPEG4.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

pjm877 said:


> case in point.. if you could buy the cable card for hummm say a $50 one time fee and not have that $$ a month... good deal.. then 8 months, poof.. a change and you can only get 2/3's of packages now.. still the same $$ per month just the new would be nice to watch that football game station is being paid for but can't be decoded... what are you to do?


Cable companies don't sell hardware... they lease it. This is similar to the smart card (or hardwired equivalent) that is present in both leased and owned receivers. If it becomes obsolete, they send you a new one and you're down the road.


> or
> 
> Ponder this... Dish changes something major with the transmission feed.. now only the new units will be able to decode correctly... you will now be required to LEASE all new hardware... trash out the old.. one month old, one year old.. no choice..


Ponder this: D* is moving to a lease only setup for new equipment as of March 1st. It is only a matter of time before E* manages to unshackle itself from the bonds of a large installed base of customer owned receivers and moves towards the model long held by cable companies and soon by D*.


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