# HELP PLEASE. Voom at 129 with legacy LNBs?



## M Sparks (Sep 28, 2005)

Hi everyone. I've been posting this all over one of the other forums but haven't got an answer. Apologies to those who read both forums and are already sick of me.

I have a brand new 942 on software 281. (great timing, eh?) Previously, I was using a DISH 500 @ 110/119 with a legacy Twin, and a DISH 300 @148 with a legacy Dual tied together with a SW21s into one receiver. (I only hooked 148 to my main reciever) I got rid of the other receivers, bought another SW21 for the other feed, moved the 300 to 129 and hooked up both feeds to the 942.

The short version is, I can only get GuyTV, HDNews, and Rave- all on transponder 9. 

If I look at the Point Dish screen, I get no signal from TP 12 (Equator and Animania). I DO get a signal from the other Voom TPs- 6 & 10, but they seem to take a long time to aquire. There are a few other TPs missing- I think 13 through 15- but they just have distant locals on them..

If I remove the SW21s and hook up 129 directly, I can get TP12 and the others. They also seem to take less time to aquire. But I can't view anything, because the receiver goes into a reboot loop once I leave the check switch screen.

After hooking 129 up directly, if I then put the SW21s back in, I can STILL get a signal on TP 12. But as soon as I run the switch check, it disappears.

Here's what I've already tried...

*Check Switch tests for SuperDish, Alternate, Superdish/Alternate, and standard. Checking Superdish brings up 50 checks, everything else is 38. No matter what I run, I still see all three sats confirmed.

*Swapping sides on the SW21s (putting the 500 on Dish 2 and the 300 on Dish 1)

*Changing the LNB on the 129 dish (I had two extras, tried one)

*Checking both tuner inputs. (This is why I haven't tried to replace either of the SW21s with a spare- same results on both switches.)

*Unhooking one side and hooking 129 directly without running a switch check. I can still tune those 3 channels, but that's it.

*Soft reboots, hard reboots.

*Everything above at least twice.

More information...

+I can tune the Dish 1000 slide with no problem.

+All the Voom channels are in my EPG

+When I had the dish at 148, I had problems there too, but I think it was due to a problem with the mast mount. I have since remounted.

+One of the SW21s is my very old one. I bought two used ones on ebay- one is still in the box. I was going to switch out my old SW21, but again- the problem is on both tuners.

+Tuning the other 7 Voom channels leads to a "check switch" popup. I get the same result on the TP 12 channels (no signal) as the TP 6 & 10 channels (signal slow to aquire.)

+Occasionally, GuyTV and HDNews take a LONG time to tune in. Rave always seems to work perfectly.

+Signal levels are fine- 70s and 80s. Higher than the signals at 110 in fact.

+CSRs two days ago told me Voom still wasn't available on 129- that's why I haven't called them. I had to call back and play dumb to get Voom activated.

+I can't get 61.5, so please don't suggest it.

Anybody? Should I just go get a DishProPlus Twin and a DishPro Dual? I'm wondering if when they "broke" 129 with software 280 and they only "fixed" the DishPro switches in 281. 

Does ANYBODY get Voom at 129 with this setup? Or did you before, and 280 "broke" it? Thanks in advance.


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## M Sparks (Sep 28, 2005)

46 views and no reponses- I'm going to take that as a "no" and get some DishPro equipment. Grrrrrr.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Hmm, just grasping at straws here ...

About the only thing you haven't checked yet is the cable and fittings. The problem is mainly with the even TPs which need 18v to tune as opposed to 13v for the odds. Things seem to improve when you remove the line from the Dual to the SW21 so there could be a problem there.

Since you already have it, try the other SW21, even if just for G&G.

Everything else would seem to point to the 942. When you connected directly to the 129 LNB, did you first run a check switch with nothing hooked up?

Switching to DP Plus may be a better option (more reliable, room for another receiver) but it shouldn't be necessary to get rid of what you already have.

No one else is using the common Twin/SW21 cascade with a 942??


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## M Sparks (Sep 28, 2005)

AHA! That's interesting- I didn't think of the odd versus even transponders.

My two original SW21s used to be mounted outside, and we get down to zero degrees here. One went bad after a year or so, but we moved shortly thereafter. I bought a Twin and threw my old 300 up at 148 just for fun- I could only get a few channels, and those weren't exactly reliable, because I have tree issues.

For all I know, all the 148 channels were on odds, and this switch has been bad for years. I've heard the 942 must see the same configuartion on each tuner, or it will act "weird".

I did have a DISH tech post on another forum that it "should" work.

I will swap the other SW21 out and give it a try. My cable runs are well within the proper lengths, but if this doesn't fix it, I'll just give in to DishPro.


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## M Sparks (Sep 28, 2005)

Oh, I did mention it, but not very clearly- I did run a check switch on 129 only. The missing transponders come back, but I go into reboot loop once I try to leave the check-switch screen


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## M Sparks (Sep 28, 2005)

I switched it out. nothing. Time to go DishPro.

Thanks a lot Boba- that cleared a lot up. I have a new theory about what I was seeing...

If I pulled up the point dish screen and tried to check TP6, 10 or 12 first, most of the time I wouldn't get a signal. I would then either try TP9, or keep flipping down and usually wind up stopping on TP 5. After locking on to one of those, I would then be able to get a signal on TP 6,8,&10- but never TP12.

I don't know for sure how things work, so this part is all theory...I think the receiver was actually showing the signal from the next lowest odd transponder. Since there is no TP11 available, I couldn't get a signal on TP12. 

Of course, there is supposedly a test signal on TP13, but I don't get anything on TP13 or 14. Everything on up to TP21 is fine. (I was wrong when I said I didn't get TP15)

A quick check just now shows that TP10 has the same signal strength as TP9, and so on down to TP6. Since even and odds almost always have varying signal strengths, this would seem to support my theory.

If it is a voltage problem- either in my cables or receiver- am I right in thinking this shouldn't be an issue with DishPro? I'm still a little unclear about how they work, exactly. I know they are supposed to make things simpler, but as someone who owns a single output DirecTV LNBF, I've been used to the whole even/odd thing so long, I can't wrap my mind around DISH PRO. 

(And this DishPro Plus stuff? That's crazy talk!  Feeding two tuners with one cable instead of six- impossible!  )


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Maybe one of the installers can make something of your additional observations, I'm tapped out.


M Sparks said:


> If it is a voltage problem- either in my cables or receiver - am I right in thinking this shouldn't be an issue with DishPro? I'm still a little unclear about how they work, exactly. I know they are supposed to make things simpler, but as someone who owns a single output DirecTV LNBF, I've been used to the whole even/odd thing so long, I can't wrap my mind around DISH PRO.


DishPro sends the odd and even at the same time by translating the evens to a higher frequency range then stacking the signals. No more voltage switching. In fact you don't even need a switch unless you need more than one satellite which happens to be the case for nearly all Dish subscribers. You might still have a problem if your cables or connectors are bad because DP always runs at IIRC 19.6v.


> (And this DishPro Plus stuff? That's crazy talk!  Feeding two tuners with one cable instead of six- impossible!  )


DP Plus just adds a twist to regular DP. Instead of sending all the transponders from 1 satellite, a DP Plus switch can be instructed to select from any of the connected satellites, band translating as needed for the DPP Separator to direct the appropriate tp to tuner 1 and tuner 2.
See http://ekb.dbstalk.com/217.


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## M Sparks (Sep 28, 2005)

Hmm...sounds like DishPro could wind up being worse for me? I think I need to do some more tests.

Yesterday, I tried moving the SW21s outside and hooking them up right by the dish. The first time I got a proper setup on tuner 2, but nothing on 1. It LOOKED like I was getting all the transponders on 2, but then it crashed. I messed with the connections and ran another switch check. This time I still got nothing on 1, and a bizarre setup on tuner 2. (I think it said SW21-4 Sat, with 129 on 1, 110 on 3, and nothing on 2 or 4.

So obviously I have a bad connection or two. While I was out there, I notice the ground blocks on 129 were totally corroded. So I went back to my usual set up and brought the SW21s back inside, but I took two barrels outside and bypassed the ground block. Back to square one.

So far the best results have been with the SW21s outside- at least one tuner appeared to be working. But I don't want to do that if I can avoid it- the weather is extreme here.


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## Miner (Oct 29, 2004)

M Sparks,

I just moved my 61.5 dish over to 129 with legacy equipment. I have a legacy quad and a legacy dual using an SW-21 to join the signals, into an 811. With the 61.5 dish, I just did a "check switch" and the system reported the 3 sats. With the 129 dish, I had to select "Super Dish" before performing the check switch or the result would be 119 Odd and Even, 110 Odd and Even, X X for the 3rd position. I checked "Super Dish" and all is well. I have all the Vooms and the "sys info" reports 3 good birds.


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## ThomasTrain (Aug 9, 2005)

I think your problem is that you are trying to cascade two SW21's. None of Dish's receiver know how to handle two cascaded SW21 in series. In your configuration, you with trying to receive 4 birds (119/110/148/129) you will need either a SW64 + SW21 to properly allow the cascade and allow 4 satellites OR replace all equipment with DishPro LNBs and a DDP44. I believe you are trying to combine LegacyTwin (119/110) + SW21 (148) + SW21 (129).

IF you wanted to dump the 148 bird and just run your Twin (119/110) + a SW21 for the 129 bird you would be fine because that cascade is allowed. However, the Legacy switches work on proprietary serial signaling that is different for each switch model (ie: SW21, SW42, SW44, SW64) BUT the SAME signaling for each same switch model. Because of this if multiple switches of the same model are cascaded, they will all reposnd to the same control signaling from the ird. 
Fortunately, since each leagcy switch has a different set of control signaling, you CAN cascade DIFFERENT model switches (IE: and SW64 + SW41 ) like I suggested above.

With that being said, you will be much happier, replacing you current setup with DishPro LNB's and a DPP44, because the cabling requirements are HALF what is required with legacy, the switch cable plant looks nicer and cleaner since you are not cascading switches AND the DPP44 supports the DishProPlus seperating, only reqiring one feed to your 942.


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## M Sparks (Sep 28, 2005)

ThomasTrain said:


> I think your problem is that you are trying to cascade two SW21's. In your configuration, you with trying to receive 4 birds (119/110/148/129)... I believe you are trying to combine LegacyTwin (119/110) + SW21 (148) + SW21 (129)...you will be much happier, replacing you current setup with DishPro LNB's and a DPP44, because the cabling requirements are HALF what is required with legacy...


That would indeed be a problem if I had been trying to do that. 

I moved my 148 dish to 129. I was just trying to use the same Twin/Dual/SW21 3 Sat cascade combo I had been using for years with 110/119/148. I never said anything about running 4 sats. (I did ask about cascading a twin with an SW64 for 4 sats in another thread, and someone was nice enough to explain why it wouldn't work. But that was weeks ago.)

As Boba figured out, I was not getting the even transponders at 129. I tried a few more things, but eventually gave up. I got a DishProPlus Twin and a DishPro Dual and all is well. (Later on, someone suggested my "stingers" were too long, but it was too late to test that theory.)

I also find it odd that you and several other people told me I'd be happier because I'd need less cables. The cables are already there!  In fact, I ran the cables in this house right before DishPro came out, so I actually ran EXTRA cables. I used to need 4 cables into the house, I ran 6, now I only need one! I'll be in good shape if I ever do need to add 148 back into the mix. I hooked up both sides of the DPP Twin into the house, and I hooked the unused side of the DP Dual up as well. If I ever want to get 148, I'll just hook another DP Dual on the 4th cable and put a DPP44 where they come into the house.

The cleaner look doesn't matter- we have an "ugly" side of the house that no one really has to look at. It has a Dish 300, Dish 500, DirecWay Dish, 10 foot VHF/UHF Antenna, and 500 gallon propane tank. 

Seriously though, thanks for at least trying to help. I'd rather get a wrong answer than no answer.


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## ThomasTrain (Aug 9, 2005)

Sorry, I guess I just mis-read or mis-understood the issue. I ran my 942 with a SW64 + SW21 cascade without issue. I would assume, that a Twin + SW21 would work. Unfortunately, I just converted my system over to DishPro using a DPP44 so I can't test the issue for you.


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

Did you ever figure out this problem?

I'm having exactly the same issue - even Tps On 129 with legacy equipment.

See
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=58666

Thanks!

Nevermind...I see that you switched to DishPro and all is well...didn't read it correctly the first time


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