# Hypothetical situation



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Guy A sells guy B a used, owned HD DVR on a forum. It works. It gets hooked up on guy B's account. 

6 weeks later it "begins to lose signal." Guy B doesn't have the protection plan and says he has troubleshot it down to figure out it's the receiver. 

What is guy A's responsibility at this point, ethically. Legally, I know it's up to Paypal since that was the mode of payment. Oh, and guy B contacts guy A three days before the Paypal buyer protection expires. 

Just curious for another point of view. Hypothetically speaking, of course. :sure:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

As-is.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Unless a warranty was included in the sale, once it was plugged in, and worked, that should be the end of Person A's responsibility, since person A has no control over the power, lightning, pets, kids, or other things that could happen. Same with a used car. Once you drive it off the lot, its yours. Thats what "works: As Is" means. We sell equipment at work with three options, "As Is" (you get what you get), "Works: As Is" (we test it before we ship), "Works: 30 day warrantee".


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## Tonedeaf (Jun 13, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Unless a warranty was included in the sale, once it was plugged in, and worked, that should be the end of Person A's responsibility, since person A has no control over the power, lightning, pets, kids, or other things that could happen. Same with a used car. Once you drive it off the lot, its yours. Thats what "works: As Is" means. We sell equipment at work with three options, "As Is" (you get what you get), "Works: As Is" (we test it before we ship), "Works: 30 day warrantee".


That may be true. But Paypal will almost always side with the buyer regardless.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Definitely should be an AS-IS sale unless another warranty was provided.

Unfortunately, as long as it is under 45days since the actual transaction (not delivery) PayPal usually sides with the buyer usually even if he is being less than truthful. After 45 days it might be tough for the buyer.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Funny enough, i just found out it was never advertised as working. Nor was that stated anywhere in the terms of the sale or the communications between the buyer and seller. 

The receiver was delivered as advertised. Legally speaking. 

Paypal will have a hard time upholding a chargeback on this.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

IMO, guy B is SOL.
Paypal world, guy A is SOL.


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## richall01 (Sep 30, 2007)

Let the buyer beware. If guy A had 25 PPV's on the card you would HAVE to pay them or the unit will never be actived.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Everything will eventually break. Whether it was 6 weeks or 2 years down the line, the buyer had no business buying an owned DVR without the protection plan. A DVR failure is inevitable, and they would have run into this situation sooner or later. The fact that it's sooner makes it no more your fault than if it happened 2 years in the future. 6 weeks is more than enough time to absolve you in my opinion. Paypal may have other thoughts...

In today's politically correct world many think ignorance of the facts absolves them of mistakes. I choose to apply the motto "you live and you learn..."


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

How about it was used/turned on THREE times ?


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> Hypothetically speaking, of course. :sure:


the fact is it was turned on only three times

It sat in the box for approx a month, then activated, used three times and the tuner started going bad on the third use !


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

tcusta00 said:


> Funny enough, i just found out it was never advertised as working. Nor was that stated anywhere in the terms of the sale or the communications between the buyer and seller.
> 
> The receiver was delivered as advertised. Legally speaking.


But even if it was advertised as working, the buyer would still be SOL.

It worked for 6 weeks, did it not?

The seller would have no way of knowing when/if the receiver would tank.

Now, if the ad said "working and guaranteed to work for at least 8 weeks", then that would be different.

I sold a perfectly good PS3 on Ebay last year. The person I sold it to contacted me 3 months after the sale and said that it stopped working and he wanted his money back. :sure:


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

:cough:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

"spartanstew" said:


> :cough:


This is hypothetical. :lol:


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

stilen621 said:


> How about it was used/turned on THREE times ?


If it worked ONCE, it worked when it was sold.

IMO that is the risk you run buying something used.


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> Funny enough, i just found out it was never advertised as working. Nor was that stated anywhere in the terms of the sale or the communications between the buyer and seller.
> 
> The receiver was delivered as advertised. Legally speaking.
> 
> .


Funny enough is you seem proud that you possibly misled intentionaly.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

stilen621 said:


> the fact is it was turned on only three times
> 
> It sat in the box for approx a month, then activated, used three times and the tuner started going bad on the third use !


What if it had been turned on 600 times then failed? Without the protection plan the buyer is still in the same predicament...


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> This is hypothetical. :lol:


Fact is you sold a piece of carp and you knew it !


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

stilen621 said:


> Funny enough is you seem proud that you possibly misled intentionaly.


Misled how? It was working when sold and continued to work for 6 weeks.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I have a feeling this thread will spiral, and enough answers have been given on the topic.

You may want to request this thread be closed tcusta.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

stilen621 said:


> Fact is you sold a piece of carp and you knew it !


It's as-is...it worked...it worked twice. Should have the protection plan.


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I have a feeling this thread will spiral, and enough answers have been given on the topic.
> 
> You may want to request this thread be closed tcusta.


No way, man! This could get good!


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

This post reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld - The Seven

"But, does the fee, once paid, not entitle the buyer to some assurance Of reliability? Hmm? Huh? Ahh. These were not easy questions to answer. Not for any man..."

:lol:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Let's not turn a hypothetical situation into a forum war, huh? PM me if you have a real situation you'd like to discuss with me in private please. I'd like this thread not to get closed, I think this is a good discussion for buyers and sellers alike to see.


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> Misled how? It was working when sold and continued to work for 6 weeks.


It sat in the box for approx a month. It was activated two weeks ago and used/turned on twice after that


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

stilen621 said:


> Fact is you sold a piece of carp and you knew it !


If the OP had owned equipment then he likely had the protection plan. If the DVR had an issue he'd have likely had D* replace it before selling it. It doesn't make sense to pawn a defective receiver off when there's an easy way around it. Once again the protection plan would have solved this quite easily...


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

stilen621 said:


> It sat in the box for approx a month. It was activated two weeks ago and used/turned on twice after that


And did it work when you first turned it on?

Yes or No.

If so, then it was working when it was sold.

Whatever happens after that is just bad luck.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Funny, guy A does indeed have the protection plan.


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> Let's not turn a hypothetical situation into a forum war, huh? PM me if you have a real situation you'd like to discuss with me in private please. I'd like this thread not to get closed, I think this is a good discussion for buyers and sellers alike to see.


You are right that its good for other potential buyers and sellers to see. That way people dont get ripped off. They can also see how others can get taken advantage of and to be very careful when buying things of this site and other sites as well. Its a buyers beware world out there

Oh, and its not a hypothetical situation,,,its a real situation


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

tcusta00 said:


> Let's not turn a hypothetical situation into a forum war, huh? PM me if you have a real situation you'd like to discuss with me in private please. I'd like this thread not to get closed, I think this is a good discussion for buyers and sellers alike to see.


It sounds to me like there already was a situation and this thread caught the eye of the buyer...


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> It sounds to me like there already was a situation and this thread caught the eye of the buyer...


Your wrong Matt, the seller emailed the link to me


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

Again. This is the chance you take. You get a used receiver for half price and the chance exists problems may arise.

The buyer feels misled but I dont see anywhere where it was asked "wow this is cheap, does it work?". Or words to that effect.

By the way, with the way Directv throws discounts around, I am surprised they couldnt get one from them for that price.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

$100 says Judge Judy would tell the buyer, "Tough. It worked when you tried it & unless noted otherwise all 3rd party sales are as-is. Goodbye!"


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

stilen621 said:


> You are right that its good for other potential buyers and sellers to see. That way people dont get ripped off. They can also see how others can get taken advantage of and to be very careful when buying things of this site and other sites as well. *Its a buyers beware world out there*
> 
> Oh, and its not a hypothetical situation,,,its a real situation


Knowing the above bold -- why would anyone wait a month to activate a piece of used equipment? I'm still curious what the buyer would do a year from now if they didn't have the protection plan...


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

If I was the buyer, then I'd add the PP - wait 30 days - call for replacement.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

dsw2112 said:


> Knowing the above bold -- why would anyone wait a month to activate a piece of used equipment?


Was going to ask the same thing.

Buyer A wants us to believe that Seller B is lying about the functionality of the unit, but at the same time we're supposed to believe that Buyer A had the unit for 1 month without every testing it? And that after finally testing it, only tried it again once or twice more in the next couple of weeks?

The much more likely scenario is that the unit was connected the day it was received and worked great with continuous usage for 6 weeks, then crashed for whatever reason. To make the case look better, Buyer A claims it was rarely used (an often used strategy in these types of situations).


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> If I was the buyer, then I'd add the PP - wait 30 days - call for replacement.


Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the situation the above would fix everything. It's even possible that the buyer might get an owned HR24 for their trouble


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> Buyer A wants us to believe that Buyer B is lying about the functionality of the unit, but at the same time we're supposed to believe that Buyer A had the unit for 1 month without every testing it? And that after finally testing it, only tried it again once or twice more in the next couple of weeks?
> 
> I think you mean "seller A" wants us to believe "buyer B".
> Whether anyone believes me or not I really dont care. I know what the facts are (Not hypotheticles) Seller A shipped the item on approx 9/13,14 and it took a week to get here. It sat in the box it was shipped in for around three weeks. it was placed in the spare bedroom and activated where it seemed to be fine when activated. Guests used the bedroom over the weekend and noticed the picture was fuzzy so I checked the signal strengths and they were off. So the seller was contacted and the buyer was basically told "TOUGH" which is ok by the buyer. Karma will come around and thats it. I`d like to believe other sellers here would have handled it quite differently. Thats all .
> ...


This scenerio never happened


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## DarinC (Aug 31, 2004)

The picture was fuzzy? I've never seen signal strength issues that cause a fuzzy signal. You typically either get a picture, or you don't.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Guy A sells guy B a used, owned HD DVR on a forum. It works. It gets hooked up on guy B's account.
> 
> 6 weeks later it "begins to lose signal." Guy B doesn't have the protection plan and says he has troubleshot it down to figure out it's the receiver.
> 
> ...


Since you asked about ethics, I thought I'd comment on that part. I'm not an expert, but here's how I would define "doing the right thing" in this situation.

1. If the seller knew that the DVR was bad, he should refund the money.
2. If the seller suspected the DVR was bad, he should have put that possibility in the advertisement. If he did not, he should refund the buyers money. (It would be reasonable for the buyer to deactivate the DVR and return it to the seller.)
3. If the seller did not know or suspect that the DVR was bad, he should not have to refund the sellers money, if it was only a trasaction between the two parties. 
4. Since a third party (Paypal) was involved, the seller is also bound by whatever agreement he made with Paypal. Obviously, doing the right thing would be to live up to that agreement.

Only the buyer can know whether he knew or suspected that the DVR was bad. So, only he can determine what the right thing to do in this situation.

Now, ethics apply to the buyer as well. If the buyer believes that there is a warranty (either advertised or because of method of payment), the buyer has a responsibility to test the item during that warranty period and notify the seller as soon as possible with a problem. Since "as soon as possible" may differ with the buyers situation, only the buyer can determine if he did that.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Hypothetically, there are a number of things that could be wrong on the buyers end with their setup or the manor in which they handled/installed the DVR in question.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

To be clear:

The receiver worked fine. As another poster stated earlier in the thread, since I have the protection plan it would make no sense that I would have a broken receiver in my possession since it would be free to get a new one. 

I wouldn't sell a broken box either. 

I'm not giving someone his money back after 42 days. I have no idea what went on in that house with that box. If it was a week or so? Yeah fine, no problem. 

The other thing that rubs me wrong is that the buyer contacted me for help troubleshooting. I have no problem doing that, and indeed I tried in earnest. But when I asked if the buyer had the protection plan his answer was, "do you?" That's when I realized that this was going to be trouble and in the same message I was asked what I was going to do to make it right. And soon after, Paypal was threatened on me, as was "starting a thread" here on the issue to alert would be buyers on scanners like me. 

Directv will be getting a call later today so I can find out exactly when this receiver was activated. My curiosity has the best of me... though it means someone has lost the benefit of the doubt. 


Hypothetically.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

stilen621 said:


> It sat in the box for approx a month. It was activated two weeks ago and used/turned on twice after that


SO? Whose fault is that. Had the buyer used it immediately and had a problem out of the box maybe the seller out of the kindness of his/her heart may have done something. But a month later ..... c'mon. What if it sat in the box for 6 months then was turned on? Or a year?

Purchases like these are considered as-is UNLESS a warranty was provided or there was obvious fraud. Judge Judy would laugh it out of court.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

"Hypothetically" a fool and his money are soon parted!


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> The other thing that rubs me wrong is that the buyer contacted me for help troubleshooting. I have no problem doing that, and indeed I tried in earnest.
> 
> But when I asked if the buyer had the protection plan his answer was, "do you?"
> 
> ...


You did try to something in earnest but it wasn`t trying to help.

The first thing you basically asked was if I had the Protection Plan,,, Did I ever say NO ? And why was that asked almost immediately, it was like you knew something was wrong.

And you call Directv and ask when it was activated, DO IT !!!

And anyone who`s buying any type of used electronics should be leary and ask questions, ask lots of them. No matter where you buy from.

Tcusta, did you come here to get neutral opinions or justify your actions ?


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

stilen621 said:


> And anyone who`s buying any type of used electronics should be leary and ask questions, ask lots of them. No matter where you buy from.


 Well duhhh! I assume you didn't? Also be sure you, as the buyer of used equipment, tests it immediately and not wait a month because it it was found bad immediately the seller might do something for you. But a month later, c'mon.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

stilen621 said:


> You did try to something in earnest but it wasn`t trying to help.
> 
> The first thing you basically asked was if I had the Protection Plan,,, Did I ever say NO ? And why was that asked almost immediately, it was like you knew something was wrong.
> 
> ...


you are completely and totally in the wrong here....It's your fault you didnt activate for a month after receiving it, it worked, then started having issues, doesnt matter whether you used it 3 times or 300 times. If you continue down this road with your posts the moderators should ban you from posting, because this is definitely not the way to handle an issue like this.


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

TBlazer07 said:


> Well duhhh! I assume you didn't? Also be sure you, as the buyer of used equipment, tests it immediately and not wait a month because it it was found bad immediately the seller might do something for you. But a month later, c'mon.


You are correct and I dont have a problem with not checking the history of the unit first and me bad for thinking there was a higher standard here. And the month later thing is old. If it had worked fine for a month and a half ,,hey great and would have got a little use out of it. But it worked three times and had only been activated a little over a week or so.

And sorry if I didn`t immediately unbox it and immediately call for a new access card. And immediately leave it on for 24/7 to make sure it worked correctly but I have a life and dont have the need to sit and read these forums all day.


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## stilen621 (Dec 18, 2009)

CCarncross said:


> you are completely and totally in the wrong here....It's your fault you didnt activate for a month after receiving it, it worked, then started having issues, doesnt matter whether you used it 3 times or 300 times. If you continue down this road with your posts the moderators should ban you from posting, because this is definitely not the way to handle an issue like this.


:lol:

I`m not the one who came on here airing dirty laundry. Or calling a factual situation a hypothetical one either. Theres nothing hypothetical about it.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)




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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

I tried to keep this thread anonymous for the buyer's sake since this is a horribly embarrassing situation for him... demanding money back on a purchase made 6 weeks ago. My apologies for anyone I've offended with my aloof "hypothetical" diction here. Obviously this situation was real and continues to be very real, which boggles my mind. 

I've gotten out of this thread what I expected: I'm being rational and ethical. My actions are justified and I've yet to see a post here to the contrary. 

I've learned a valuable lesson here: caveat emptor applies to sellers as well. The seller, myself in this case, is buying another party to the transaction with his goods. 

The shame of it is that I have an HR20 and an old HR10-250 sitting in my basement collecting dust that I was thinking about posting for sale here but now I think they'll continue to collect dust. This is just too difficult and it's not worth the headache. 

Mods can close this before it escalates into something worse. Thanks.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

stilen621 said:


> You are correct and I dont have a problem with not checking the history of the unit first and me bad for thinking there was a higher standard here. And the month later thing is old. If it had worked fine for a month and a half ,,hey great and would have got a little use out of it. But it worked three times and had only been activated a little over a week or so.
> 
> And sorry if I didn`t immediately unbox it and immediately call for a new access card. And immediately leave it on for 24/7 to make sure it worked correctly but I have a life and dont have the need to sit and read these forums all day.


 Well, at least it seems you are sorry and are taking responsibility. Obviously you don't believe fraud was perpetrated on you for this purchase. You simply didn't do your "due diligence" and check it out immediately. Had you done so the result would probably have been different. This situation is no different then buying a used car with a 30 day warranty and not registering it for 60 days then losing the transmission on the first drive.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

stilen621 said:


> :lol:
> 
> I`m not the one who came on here airing dirty laundry. Or calling a factual situation a hypothetical one either. Theres nothing hypothetical about it.


I have absolutely no doubt that *tcusta00* sold you that HR in good faith. Can't figure out if you have the PP or not, but only a fool would buy an owned HR and not have the PP. How many times do we have to post this info so what happened to you doesn't happen? If you do have it, contact the PP and get a replacement. The odds on anything ending in 100 not working are a lot higher than any other HR. I've posted that opinion many times. I'm surprised you bought it.

And then, not to try it out immediately is an act of utter stupidity. When I get ANY HR for ANY reason, the first thing I do is take it out of the box and hook it up. How can you reasonably excuse yourself for not doing that?

Every piece of electronics I have ever sold has been thoroughly checked and tested and is in working order when shipped. And I've gotten complaints about them not working and taken some back only to find out that they are working. Back they go to the buyer. No refunds and PayPal has never come after me. I usually state that I will not give refunds and have put AS IS on many offerings. Who knows what people do when they get them?

In closing, you couldn't have bought that HR from a better, more dependable person than *tcusta00*. You screwed up. Man up.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I suspect the intent of the "hypothetical" concept was to avoid having actual people's names mentioned or personal dialog engaged.

I also doubt anything malicious was intended by anyone - seller or buyer.

Having read through the thread...it seems the end goal was to make everyone whole.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

The funny thing about this issue is that it's one of the easier situations to resolve for the buyer (get/use the PP.) I also question why the buyer would jump to the conclusion that the seller "knowingly" sold defective merchandise given the circumstances. The seller stated he has the PP (which anyone with owned equipment should have.) To verify this I looked through Tcusta00's posts and found several mentions that he does indeed have the PP. 

With that being said, there is no logical reason to pawn a defective piece of equipment onto someone else. D* will very easily replace any owned equipment with another owned unit (using the PP.) As an example I replaced an owned HR21 and received an owned HR24 a month ago. 

So why would someone sell a defective receiver given that situation? In addition, why would they sell it on a forum they frequent regularly? 

Maybe the seller did have some malicious intent to sell defective equipment, but if you step back and think about that for a second you just might have a chuckle yourself. This is a silly kind of argument that high school kids make (I've counseled them.) Instead of dwelling on the conspiracy theory why not fix this easily remedied problem?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Having communicated with TCusta for years now at DBSTalk, his long standing here, and read many, may of his posts during that timeframe...I have no reason to believe there was ever any intent of *knowingly* selling defective equipment.

The end goal seemed to be to make everyone whole.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

dsw2112 said:


> Instead of dwelling on the conspiracy theory why not fix this easily remedied problem?


"I look at modern life and I see people not taking responsibility for their lives. The temptation to blame, to find external causes to one's own issues is something that is particularly modern. I know that personally I find that sense of responsibility interesting."

Edward Zwick


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

I can't believe this discussion, the simple fact is that there is no legal obligation to cover a product unless a warranty is offered. As long as it turns on and functions the first time you have purchased a working product. Whether it dies the 2nd time or the 1000th time is irrelevant.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Interesting thread. I would normally say that when you purchase a used product, the buyer has an obligation to inspect the product within a reasonable amount of time to ensure that the product performs as expected. What is "reasonable" time probably varies depending on situation, but I thing that unless there is some special circumstance here, 40+ days is beyond reasonable.

Nonetheless, this situation seems easily remedied:

A) If they buyer retains the defective receiver, than the buyer can purchase the DirecTV protection plan, and repair/replace the defective receiver after 30 days.

B) If Paypal has a contractual policy which obligates the buyer to accept return of the receiver, refund the money, and void the transaction, then the seller gets the receiver back and can have it repaired/replace under his protection plan.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

If I were the seller, I would stand behind the item (even if sold "as is") for long enough (perhaps a week) for the buyer to receive it, hook it up, and check it out. If the item does not work on initial power up, I would probably take it back. If the buyer contacted me six weeks later, sorry but that is just too long.

I've bought a few things off eBay. Without exception they are unpacked, powered up, and tested within a couple of hours of receipt. One item I returned because it was not "as advertised" (there was a technical discrepancy, a good analogy would be it wasn't the specified color). Another item died on me a few weeks later. Too bad for me. That's the risk of buying used.

I'm now waiting for another purchase I made Friday evening. Fairly risky purchase in this case, but I made it fully aware that I was risking my money. The potential saving (over a comparable new item) was enough to take the risk. It will be tested thoroughly as soon as possible after receipt. If it dies two days later, too bad for me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dsw2112 said:


> The funny thing about this issue is that it's one of the easier situations to resolve for the buyer (get/use the PP.) I also question why the buyer would jump to the conclusion that the seller "knowingly" sold defective merchandise given the circumstances. The seller stated he has the PP (which anyone with owned equipment should have.) To verify this I looked through Tcusta00's posts and found several mentions that he does indeed have the PP.
> 
> With that being said, there is no logical reason to pawn a defective piece of equipment onto someone else. D* will very easily replace any owned equipment with another owned unit (using the PP.) As an example I replaced an owned HR21 and received an owned HR24 a month ago.
> 
> ...


Well said. No reason to imply the the seller did anything wrong intentionally. He's just not that kind of person. I was surprised to see this thread, just because of the TS.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

longrider said:


> I can't believe this discussion, the simple fact is that there is no legal obligation to cover a product unless a warranty is offered. As long as it turns on and functions the first time you have purchased a working product. Whether it dies the 2nd time or the 1000th time is irrelevant.


Agreed, but you're using logic and we're dealing with PayPal here. Sometimes logic and PayPal just don't mix well.

Rich


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

I bet there is nothing wrong with the tuners in the receiver anyway. Probably bad connectors in the coax.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

tcusta00 said:


> "I look at modern life and I see people not taking responsibility for their lives. The temptation to blame, to find external causes to one's own issues is something that is particularly modern. I know that personally I find that sense of responsibility interesting."
> 
> Edward Zwick


I could not agree more with this quote.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

I have bought and sold used electronics on ebay. When I buy, I make sure that the seller will at least guarantee it's not DOA. When I sell, I also offer that level of protection and will typically give the buyer 3 or 4 days to try it out and make sure it works. In no case would I come back on the seller after a few days and would also not allow a buyer to come back on me in that scenario. Electronics fail and sometimes it's just bad timing. 

Buyer beware.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

peano said:


> I bet there is nothing wrong with the tuners in the receiver anyway. Probably bad connectors in the coax.


Agreed. This thread high-lites the reasons I stopped selling stuff on eBay. Once you put electronics in the mail and they are received, who knows what the person/s receiving the item are gonna do with it?

I was PMing Matt the other day and told him about a Sony Dream sound system that I sold to a couple. I think that's the name, it was a few years ago. At the time they had a five disc DVD player/AV receiver and those small 4 ohm speakers. I used one of them for several years with absolutely no problems.

Then I started finding them in open boxes in stores for about half of what I paid for mine and started selling them on eBay. So I sold one to a couple who seemed pleasant, we corresponded and they had a lot of questions. Then, when they get it, it doesn't work. I tested it when I bought it and repacked it. Nothing wrong with it. Ended up sending them their money back and getting the sound system back.

That particular set came with speaker wires that had plugs on each end and they were color coded and when I got the set back the plugs were either cut off or pulled off. Ended up throwing it away. Couldn't get the plugs anywhere and they were essential.

So, I sent out a perfectly good sound system and got back a destroyed sound system and couldn't even put a bad feedback on the buyer. That results in bad feedbacks from the buyers and if you have too many, people start to distrust you, and you don't sell anything. Feedbacks are very important on eBay.

Bad experience all around.

Rich


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

You can't even leave negative feedback for a buyer any more. Only for a seller.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> You can't even leave negative feedback for a buyer any more. Only for a seller.


Really? I didn't know that. I've heard that it is swaying towards the buyer. And since PayPal is owned by eBay, that accounts for the bias shown for the buyer.

Altho, *Volman* will dispute that bias. And rightfully so, he got royally screwed.

Rich


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I usually don't buy or sell any used consumer electronics, i buy new and when i am done playing i give it to someone who wants it or donate it and take the write off.
Just not worth the the hassle on things that deprecate that fast.


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## JB292 (Apr 25, 2009)

peano said:


> I bet there is nothing wrong with the tuners in the receiver anyway. Probably bad connectors in the coax.


+1


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

rich584 said:


> Really? I didn't know that. I've heard that it is swaying towards the buyer. And since PayPal is owned by eBay, that accounts for the bias shown for the buyer.
> 
> Altho, *Volman* will dispute that bias. And rightfully so, he got royally screwed.
> 
> Rich


Swaying isn't the word. It's 95% buyer and 5% seller which makes sense because the buyer generates most of the revenue with the 9%-12% ebay seller fees and 3% paypal fees the the sale creates. There have been buyers who CLAIM they received a box of rocks instead of a $700 iPhone and eBay refunds them without the slightest investigation. I know someone who that happened to very well and there is no way she sent a box of rocks. It was my sister. It's a common scam.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> Swaying isn't the word. It's 95% buyer and 5% seller which makes sense because the buyer generates most of the revenue with the 9%-12% ebay seller fees and 3% paypal fees the the sale creates. There have been buyers who CLAIM they received a box of rocks instead of a $700 iPhone and eBay refunds them without the slightest investigation. I know someone who that happened to very well and there is no way she sent a box of rocks. It was my sister. It's a common scam.


This worries me, a lot. :nono: I have an iPhone I was going to try and sell. How can I not get screwed?


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

sigma1914 said:


> This worries me, a lot. :nono: I have an iPhone I was going to try and sell. How can I not get screwed?


Selling local and taking only cash.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

matt1124 said:


> Selling local and taking only cash.


Then I risk meeting a nutjob face to face. :lol:


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

TBlazer07 said:


> ... the buyer generates most of the revenue with the 9%-12% ebay seller fees and 3% paypal fees the the sale creates.


Chicken and egg. The buyer wouldn't generate revenue if the seller didn't have something to sell.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

sigma1914 said:


> Then I risk meeting a nutjob face to face. :lol:


That's why I carry a concealed gun to all my face to face meetings.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Then I risk meeting a nutjob face to face. :lol:





matt1124 said:


> That's why I carry a concealed gun to all my face to face meetings.


sigma1914 may I introduce matt1124, matt1124 this is sigma1914. :lol:


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Nice to meet you. No funny business. :lol:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

RobertE said:


> sigma1914 may I introduce matt1124, matt1124 this is sigma1914. :lol:





matt1124 said:


> Nice to meet you. No funny business. :lol:


I'll run you over in my chair...hopefully before you shoot. :lol:


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Trust me, the last thing I want to do is have to break it out.

I carry it just in case. Nobody can even tell I have it on. I meet people from craigslist about once a week. More often than not, at their house, where they invite me in and shut the door. On occasion, it is out in the boonies down a dirt road. Who knows who you might meet and what they might try to pull. Better the have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I bet it is usually the last house on the left that is why i buy only buy new electronics and when i get done playing i store them under the bed.Got it filled now i am going to have to dig a time capsule in the back yard witch i call the grave yard.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> This worries me, a lot. :nono: I have an iPhone I was going to try and sell. How can I not get screwed?


 I've been selling on eBay for 12+ years (including iPhones, Blackberry's, Android phones, & expensive cameras with no problems ever as has my sister. She just got scammed the last time. I've read hundreds of horror stories (easy to find through Google) but I've never had a problem myself. That's the price you pay to have your item put in fron to 10's of millions of potential buyers.

Everything I sell is "fixed price" with "instant payment required." That eliminates 75% of the scammers. NEVER ship out of the US. You should do fine.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> Selling local and taking only cash.


 I would never go through that although some people swear buy it. You don't want stranger in your home and then meeting them in a mall somewhere exchanging money doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling either. Lots of people do well on Craigslist but I tried it once (selling a Weber BBQ as well as an iPhone) and it was the worst experience I've had. I'd rather take my chance on eBay.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gfrang said:


> I usually don't buy or sell any used consumer electronics, i buy new and when i am done playing i give it to someone who wants it or donate it and take the write off.
> Just not worth the the hassle on things that deprecate that fast.


Yeah, but this thread is about buying a used, owned HR.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> Swaying isn't the word. It's 95% buyer and 5% seller which makes sense because the buyer generates most of the revenue with the 9%-12% ebay seller fees and 3% paypal fees the the sale creates. There have been buyers who CLAIM they received a box of rocks instead of a $700 iPhone and eBay refunds them without the slightest investigation. I know someone who that happened to very well and there is no way she sent a box of rocks. It was my sister. It's a common scam.


From the get-go, there were reports of people selling the boxes shown on the offerings without anything in them. Scams are gonna take place.

I wouldn't deal with someone who has thousands of feedbacks and sells everything he can get his hands on. I get instant notifications of every 20-700 that is put up for auction on eBay and those sellers with a very high number of feedbacks are usually selling leased HRs. And doing it knowing full well that the HRs can't be activated.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> This worries me, a lot. :nono: I have an iPhone I was going to try and sell. How can I not get screwed?


Try Craigslist. At least there you can usually drive to the seller's home and see the money or what you are gonna buy. I have bought stuff from as far away as Montana and not had a problem on CL. Not that there aren't any scams on CL, I bought that item (an owned HR) from Montana with great trepidation, but it worked out OK. I usually use the local version of CL.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> This worries me, a lot. :nono: I have an iPhone I was going to try and sell. How can I not get screwed?


I'd see how much Gazelle will buy it for. If they lower the offer based on condition, you get it back if you reject it. Usually not as much as you might get locally, but no fuss.


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> I've been selling on eBay for 12+ years (including iPhones, Blackberry's, Android phones, & expensive cameras with no problems ever as has my sister. She just got scammed the last time. I've read hundreds of horror stories (easy to find through Google) but I've never had a problem myself. That's the price you pay to have your item put in fron to 10's of millions of potential buyers.
> 
> Everything I sell is "fixed price" with "instant payment required." That eliminates 75% of the scammers. NEVER ship out of the US. You should do fine.


Funny. That is the only way I will buy from eBay. "Buy it Now" + Paypal + Large number of feedback = Good product (as has been my experience)


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

I've been holding back saying anything here because for one I know Mr. tcusta00. I know how pragmatic he is towards most everything he does. He certainly is no cheat! That being said, if I can get past our friendship for a minute, I would have to agree with carl6 on this situation as it is. Anything outside of that seems a little twisted to me. I would err on the side that it was an unfortunate circumstance that the STB died (if it is indeed dead), no one is at fault here. So as carl6 says, it comes down to reasonableness and how one defines what is reasonable. To me it is unreasonable to wait more than a week to check out an article you've purchased. Had that happened and it died, I know that tcusta00 would be reasonable in return. I think in this case the buyer has the responsibility to fix the article given the circumstances, if they so desire. tcusta00 should be relieved of responsibility (which is how it appears to have turned out).

The unfortunate aspect of this is though, that there is still feelings/thoughts of malice due to the circumstances of this situation. If you can get beyond that, that would be a good thing.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

dpeters11 said:


> I'd see how much Gazelle will buy it for. If they lower the offer based on condition, you get it back if you reject it. Usually not as much as you might get locally, but no fuss.


 CRAZY to do that. They tie it up for weeks then send you a lowball saying it wasn't as described. That happens about 75% of the time with them it seems.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

smiddy said:


> I've been holding back saying anything here because for one I know Mr. tcusta00. I know how pragmatic he is towards most everything he does. He certainly is no cheat! That being said, if I can get past our friendship for a minute, I would have to agree with carl6 on this situation as it is. Anything outside of that seems a little twisted to me. I would err on the side that it was an unfortunate circumstance that the STB died (if it is indeed dead), no one is at fault here. So as carl6 says, it comes down to reasonableness and how one defines what is reasonable. To me it is unreasonable to wait more than a week to check out an article you've purchased. Had that happened and it died, I know that tcusta00 would be reasonable in return. I think in this case the buyer has the responsibility to fix the article given the circumstances, if they so desire. tcusta00 should be relieved of responsibility (which is how it appears to have turned out).
> 
> The unfortunate aspect of this is though, that there is still feelings/thoughts of malice due to the circumstances of this situation. If you can get beyond that, that would be a good thing.


Add to all that: PayPal can still come after him. That would be the icing on the cake. As far as I can tell, *tcusta00* acted in a proper manner as I would expect. I find it hard to believe that anyone getting a used, owned HR would leave it sitting in a box for a month.

Since you know him, does he look anything at all like the _Soup Nazi_? :lol:

Rich


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Add to all that: PayPal can still come after him. That would be the icing on the cake. As far as I can tell, *tcusta00* acted in a proper manner as I would expect. I find it hard to believe that anyone getting a used, owned HR would leave it sitting in a box for a month.
> 
> Since you know him, does he look anything at all like the _Soup Nazi_? :lol:
> 
> Rich


Well, no, not really, ok, kind of if you twist your head sideways, squint really hard, oh, and look through a mirror. :lol:

I have no idea about PayPal. I'm not a fan of a middle man for business transactions, but I suppose that service is needed. :shrug:


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> CRAZY to do that. They tie it up for weeks then send you a lowball saying it wasn't as described. That happens about 75% of the time with them it seems.


I just used them to sell an old Blackberry Storm. Three days after I sent it to them, they got it. Next day I had an offer. It was $10 less than I expected, but still not bad.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

dpeters11 said:


> I just used them to sell an old Blackberry Storm. Three days after I sent it to them, they got it. Next day I had an offer. It was $10 less than I expected, but still not bad.


Try it with a "high demand" phone like an iPhone. My guess is they offered you $40 or $50 for it then dropped it $10. That's 25% which is the point I'm trying to make. They do that same 20-25% drop with an iPhone almost without fail and for some it has taken WEEKS to get it back if the don't accept the reduced offer. Google them, just about everyone has the same experience. Send it in, they get it, they tell you things are wrong with it that you know aren't, they drop the price and then take 3 weeks get it back to you. You probably could have got $100+ off eBay for the same phone with a little effort.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

The HR20 I wasn't selling that I mentioned earlier in this thread is now sold (thanks to this thread). Thanks to all who expressed interest in buying from this scammer. :lol:

(I love me some irony.)


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

tcusta00 said:


> Thanks to all who expressed interest in buying from this scammer. :lol:


And I only had to call the access card department like 5 times! :rolling:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> And I only had to call the access card department like 5 times! :rolling:


Bah, that's child's play compared to some threads here where it takes a dozen times to get the right answer. !rolling


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

tcusta00 said:


> Bah, that's child's play compared to some threads here where it takes a dozen times to get the right answer. !rolling


Eh, it's business as usual around here.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sooooo, now that it's settled...does anyone want to buy that iPhone? It's only the 3G 8GB version. Perfect gift idea.  

Matt, don't shoot!


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Can I use it without a data plan? I have ATT but I refuse to get their ridiculous data plan.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

matt1124 said:


> Can I use it without a data plan? I have ATT but I refuse to get their ridiculous data plan.


I don't know. It's an AT&T one...not unlocked or anything. They actually go for $100+ on ebay.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

I don't think you can have it on AT&T without data. They do have a 200mb/month data plan for $15 now if you plan on using wifi most of the time. I use the $25/2gb plan.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

tcusta00 said:


> I don't think you can have it on AT&T without data. They do have a 200mb/month data plan for $15 now if you plan on using wifi most of the time. I use the $25/2gb plan.


correct, any iphone on ATT requires the data plan, no way around it. As a matter of fact, any smartphone placed on ATT's network after sept 2010 requires a data plan. If a phone is put on without the data plan - locked or unlocked ATT has the right to add the mandatory data plan to the smartphone, this is documented in their terms of service.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

smiddy said:


> Well, no, not really, ok, kind of if you twist your head sideways, squint really hard, oh, and look through a mirror. :lol:


And I suppose you're not green? Nuts, I have this picture in my mind and he looks just like the _Soup Nazi_. And, of course, you're green. :lol:



> I have no idea about PayPal. I'm not a fan of a middle man for business transactions, but I suppose that service is needed. :shrug:


I think it's 45 days from the date of the payment that a buyer can contest the transaction.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> Can I use it without a data plan? I have ATT but I refuse to get their ridiculous data plan.


That's what's stopping me. My wife has an IPhone and the data plan, but she was given the phone and the company she works for pays the phone bill. They gave her the phone. Not all that impressed with it. Great speaker function, tho. I'd buy one just for that.

Rich


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## Yoda-DBSguy (Nov 4, 2006)

matt1124 said:


> Can I use it without a data plan? I have ATT but I refuse to get their ridiculous data plan.


You can NOT activate an iPhone with AT&T without the data plan. Recently the data plan had dropped in price; but also with a different measure of cost attached. Previously the data plan was unlimited and went for $30/mth (customers who had the plan are grandfathered in to this package if they don't want to change); now there are 2 choices as follows for new activations:
200MB plan for $15/month or 2GB for $25


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

I have a nice Hoyt UltraTec bow I would sell. I also have a drywall banjo and an almost new flooring nailer I could let go.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

What happened to the "outraged buyer"? He gave up? 

Rich


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## josetann (Oct 2, 2006)

I'm gonna chime in here, for the heck of it.

Buying used items can be a GREAT deal. If I absolutely, positively cannot take the possible hit if it doesn't work, then I factor in the cost of the extended warranty (in this case, the PP). Every single time so far, it's still ended up much cheaper to buy a used/refurb piece of equipment with a warranty added on, than a brand new one.

My thoughts on this thread: I didn't search the forum for any for sale threads, so I wasn't sure if the OP was the buyer or the seller. Sounded like he wanted to put this out there, not tell anyone whether he was the buyer or the seller, and get honest opinions. For all I knew, he was the buyer and wanted to know if the seller was being unreasonable.

When the seller asked the buyer if he had the PP, I doubt it was because he knew it was a bad unit. Rather, he figured if the buyer had the PP, there was no need for him (the seller) to help troubleshoot or have anything further to do with this unit. He'd simply tell the buyer to call DirecTV, ask for the PP department, and they'd get him squared away. Why should the seller waste his time troubleshooting the unit, worry about whether he should offer to take the unit back, etc. if DirecTV will take care of the problem for free?

What I'd do if I were the seller: Tell the buyer to ship it back (on his dime), and I'd refund the entire purchase amount (including the original shipping cost). Buyer is out the shipping cost one way, I'd be out the shipping cost one way as well. When I get the unit back, hook it up, make sure it works, and add it back to my account. Ignore it for the next 30 days. After 30 days, start using it quite a bit and if I notice any issue at all, call DirecTV to have it replaced via the PP.

What I'd do if I were the buyer: Suddenly realize it's working 100%. Call DirecTV and add the PP so I won't freak out about this again. Leave the receiver alone for another 30 days (if I could go 30 days without even hooking it up, another 30 days shouldn't be an issue). Start using it again after that, and if it has any problems, I'd call DirecTV to have it replaced.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

You might want to reread the thread again. 

Rich



josetann said:


> I'm gonna chime in here, for the heck of it.
> 
> Buying used items can be a GREAT deal. If I absolutely, positively cannot take the possible hit if it doesn't work, then I factor in the cost of the extended warranty (in this case, the PP). Every single time so far, it's still ended up much cheaper to buy a used/refurb piece of equipment with a warranty added on, than a brand new one.
> 
> ...


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

For those curious folks: today is day 46 if you count the day the payment was sent. I haven't heard anything but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

matt1124 said:


> Can I use it without a data plan? I have ATT but I refuse to get their ridiculous data plan.





wingrider01 said:


> correct, any iphone on ATT requires the data plan, no way around it. As a matter of fact, any smartphone placed on ATT's network after sept 2010 requires a data plan. If a phone is put on without the data plan - locked or unlocked ATT has the right to add the mandatory data plan to the smartphone, this is documented in their terms of service.





Yoda-DBSguy said:


> You can NOT activate an iPhone with AT&T without the data plan. Recently the data plan had dropped in price; but also with a different measure of cost attached. Previously the data plan was unlimited and went for $30/mth (customers who had the plan are grandfathered in to this package if they don't want to change); now there are 2 choices as follows for new activations:
> 200MB plan for $15/month or 2GB for $25


If you get an AT&T GO-Phone SIM (10c/minute no data or text) it works fine without data. On a "contract plan" no. You can also use it on T-Mobile Pay-Per-Use if it's unlocked (also 10c/minute) without a data plan. That's what my wife does (on T-MO). Mine is on a standard AT&T contract plan.

Edit: Also there is a way to get on the $30 unlimited plan even if you currently are on the $25 2gig plan. I just did it. It takes a tiny bit of effort but it works.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

tcusta00 said:


> For those curious folks: today is day 46 if you count the day the payment was sent. I haven't heard anything but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.


What else is there to be said? Pretty much anything else will be just to hear themselves talk.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> For those curious folks: today is day 46 if you count the day the payment was sent. I haven't heard anything but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.


I think you would have heard by now.

Rich


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I think you would have heard by now.
> 
> Rich


Yeah I would have thought so too. Keeping my hopes up.


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## josetann (Oct 2, 2006)

rich584 said:


> You might want to reread the thread again.
> 
> Rich


What did I miss?

Yes, I did read the whole thread, my opinions are unchanged. If you mean I should read further and see that it was a real situation...yeah I got that. I should have said that my initial impression was that I didn't know which side the OP was on (was he the seller/buyer/third party that was indirectly involved), and it appeared as though he provided the basic details without any bias, so any answers he got would be honest ones.

But yeah, I get that tcusta00 was the seller and stilen621 was the buyer after further reading. Also know that some other things have been sold thanks to this thread.

Still, I don't think it'd be too unreasonable for tcusta00 to be willing to take the receiver back, and take a hit on the initial shipping charge. He has the PP, the receiver will probably appear to work as soon as he hooks it up, and if it happens to exhibit some problems 30 days later...well he has the PP. It also wouldn't be unreasonable for stilen621 to suddenly realize the receiver is working correctly, and get the PP "just in case." He was able to completely ignore the receiver for a month...so what if he ignores it for another month? If it happens to be malfunctioning after 30 days of getting the PP, DirecTV would take care of it.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

josetann said:


> ...Still, I don't think it'd be too unreasonable for tcusta00 to be willing to take the receiver back, and take a hit on the initial shipping charge. He has the PP, the receiver will probably appear to work as soon as he hooks it up, and if it happens to exhibit some problems 30 days later...well he has the PP. It also wouldn't be unreasonable for stilen621 to suddenly realize the receiver is working correctly, and get the PP "just in case." He was able to completely ignore the receiver for a month...so what if he ignores it for another month? If it happens to be malfunctioning after 30 days of getting the PP, DirecTV would take care of it.


I think Rich's point was that this was 40+ days after sale. I don't believe that the seller would be obligated to do what you suggested so late in the game...

As you mentioned the buyer also has the ability to procure the PP. Since he waited 30 days to activate he should have no problem waiting the 30 day grace period for the protection plan to take affect.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

josetann said:


> Still, I don't think it'd be too unreasonable for tcusta00 to be willing to take the receiver back, and take a hit on the initial shipping charge.


 You don't think that is unreasonable? Over SIX WEEKS after the buyer gets the receiver not only should the seller take it back but the seller should also eat the return shipping charges! :eek2: :nono2: C'mon now.


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## josetann (Oct 2, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> You don't think that is unreasonable? Over SIX WEEKS after the buyer gets the receiver not only should the seller take it back but the seller should also eat the return shipping charges! :eek2: :nono2: C'mon now.


No, I said the seller could take a hit on the INITIAL shipping charge. In a previous post I said the buyer would pay for the shipping cost to get it sent back to the seller. Seller is out the cost of shipping to the buyer, buyer is out the cost of return shipping to the seller. Seller re-activates receiver, waits 30 days, and if a problem arises at that point, he can get a replacement via the PP (perhaps he'd get an even better model that could be sold for more?).

Course, I don't think the seller is obligated to take that course of action. Might have been worth it to avoid all the headache. Then again, maybe the buyer would just complain to everyone that the seller had the audacity to make him pay for the return shipping, who knows?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

josetann said:


> What did I miss?


My point was that I didn't see where *tcusta00* was at fault in any way. Can't see any reason for him to return the HR. Who gets an electronics item on the Net and doesn't check it out immediately? That was the kicker for me.

Rich


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## josetann (Oct 2, 2006)

rich584 said:


> My point was that I didn't see where *tcusta00* was at fault in any way. Can't see any reason for him to return the HR. Who gets an electronics item on the Net and doesn't check it out immediately? That was the kicker for me.
> 
> Rich


Didn't mean to imply where he was at fault. Me, I generally rip open any package with electronics in it the second I get it, but I'm a fanatic. Other less important things sometimes sit in the box for a while before I get around to it.

That said, a warranty (if one was even provided) generally starts on the date of purchase (occasionally it might start a few days later, when you actually receive the item). I've never seen one that starts once you actually open the box and start using it. So even if the buyer thought there should have been at least a one month warranty....


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

josetann said:


> Didn't mean to imply where he was at fault. Me, I generally rip open any package with electronics in it the second I get it, but I'm a fanatic. Other less important things sometimes sit in the box for a while before I get around to it.
> 
> That said, a warranty (if one was even provided) generally starts on the date of purchase (occasionally it might start a few days later, when you actually receive the item). I've never seen one that starts once you actually open the box and start using it. So even if the buyer thought there should have been at least a one month warranty....


Reading the whole thread, I still can't understand how the "seller", who we all know as rational and very fair, could possibly be at fault. Anyone who buys anything on eBay or from a seller on this forum or anywhere on the Net should immediately open the package and if it is an electronic device turn it on and see if it really works. I truly find it hard to believe that the HR sat in a box for a month before it was tried out. I would never come out on the forum and call someone a liar, I would consider that an act of cowardice, but in this case I truly have to doubt the "buyers" claims.

Rich


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

I guess ya'll scared the buyer off.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> I guess ya'll scared the buyer off.


Gee, didn't mean to.

Rich


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> I guess ya'll scared the buyer off.


That's okay, I have a new [strike]victim[/strike] buyer now. Muaaahhhh haaa haaa haaaa haaaa.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Hey matt, did you get your box of rocks yet?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Hey matt, did you get your box of rocks yet?


Don't clue him in yet, I wanted it to be a Halloween surprise!!!


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

I have ways of finding you.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The other day, I received my daily notifications of 20-700s for sale on eBay. I'm not looking to spend any more money on owned 20-700s at this time, but I can't help but check to see if they are actually owned.

So, I get a notification that leads me to a 20-700 that is definitely owned according to the seller. Absolutely owned. No question about it. And the seller posts the RID number and challenges anyone interested to call D* and check the RID number to see if it is truly leased.

I hit my Access Card Team speed dial button and get a woman who tells me that the 20-700 is most definitely leased. Without a doubt, it is leased. Then she tells me she is gonna contact eBay and get it removed. OK, I've heard that before and sometimes they follow thru and sometimes they don't. She did. I sent him a message stating that the 20-700 was leased and that D* was gonna contact eBay. Just a "heads-up".

I got this message from the seller yesterday. I've left off names.

Hello,

I would have appreciated it if you had contacted me directly about the DirecTV unit I had for sale *that you reported to eBay/DirecTV*. When I canceled my account with DirecTV I had 3 DVR units in my home. I double checked with the call agent that the two I had purchased online were owned and not leased. I was assured by the agent that they were in fact mine and to keep them. I returned the 3rd unit that was leased and belonged to them.

I would have preferred to take this up with DirecTV myself and either pull the auction if DirecTV changed their stance or left the auction if they confirmed their original assessment.

The unfortunate part of all of this is that I now have a black mark against my account and eBay has the right to cancel an account I have had for 12 years and worked hard to always have positive feedback and great experiences for my customers.

Please consider the seller in your future actions and that most of us want to do the right thing.


Aww, here's a guy who didn't check thoroughly, if he checked at all and he's upset because he got caught. I had nothing to do with that. I just called the ACT and asked the CSR to check if it was leased or owned. She took it upon herself to call eBay. If he didn't want people to check, he shouldn't have put the RID number on the offering.

Again, if you are thinking about buying a used HR on eBay, the proper number to call is 1-877-887-7994.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> I have ways of finding you.


But you gotta admit, it would have been a hoot!

Rich


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

"Hypothetically" this thread is getting old!


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

Wonder how the seller in Rich's example would have felt if someone bought the HR20 and couldn't acivate because it was leased. A similar letter could have been typed to the seller stating "please consider the buyer in your future actions..."

It's all about responsibility folks, many have to learn to take some...


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

*sigh*

This thing needs to hurry and get here so I can let it sit in the box a month or so before using it.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Looks like your rocks are out for delivery.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Bout. Damn. Time. :lol:

Where the heck do you live that it takes a week?!

I was about to start a thread about it hypothetically not showing up!


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

:new_sleep:new_sleep:new_sleep


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

:lol:

Didn't you get the hypothetical tracking number from PP? I entered it on the day I shipped.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

I got it today. We just live far enough apart where it takes forever, but I knew the tracking info that same day. It's cool.

I'll hook it up next month and see if it works.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> I got it today. We just live far enough apart where it takes forever, but I knew the tracking info that same day. It's cool.
> 
> I'll hook it up next month and see if it works.


Good deal!

I'm migrating to somewhere with no extradition treaty with PayPal. kthksbye.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Hey this thing doesn't work!




Just kidding!


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

matt said:


> Hey this thing doesn't work!
> 
> Just kidding!


!rolling

As soon as I saw this thread bumped I knew it would be good.

Please send it back, I'll have it checked out by our technical support team and then I'll have my customer service team contact you within 3-194 business days to discuss a resolution. We value your business and appreciate your patience.

In the meantime, please accept this coupon code for 1% off your next purchase. S#cK!t.


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## SDimwit (Jul 14, 2008)

"TBlazer07" said:


> I would never go through that although some people swear buy it. You don't want stranger in your home and then meeting them in a mall somewhere exchanging money doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling either. Lots of people do well on Craigslist but I tried it once (selling a Weber BBQ as well as an iPhone) and it was the worst experience I've had. I'd rather take my chance on eBay.


That's why I usually try to meet at the bank. We can exchange in the lobby, I can deposit before I leave, and we stay anonymous.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SDimwit said:


> That's why I usually try to meet at the bank. We can exchange in the lobby, I can deposit before I leave, and we stay anonymous.


Not a bad way to do an exchange. I don't like going into people's homes to buy or look at something for sale, but I do it. So far, no problems, but I can see how it could happen. I only do it in the daytime.

Rich


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