# How does D* get their HD local feeds?



## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Kind of curious to know how D* gets its HD locals feeds?

Is there a relay unit set up in each DMA (offering HD locals thru D*) that has various UHF and VHF antennas and an uplink station via satellite to send these HD signals to D* via MPEG-4 compression? Then, D* simply relays these signals back using their satellites to their customers?

I would suspect the above is how it is done and not the individual stations uplink their HD signals to D* directly via satellite.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

In most markets ( I think there is only 1 exception to this right now, and I am not 100% sure on that).

They receive the HD-Digital signal via the affiliates OTA transmission.
They then decompress it, then re-encode it to MPEG-4 then transmit to the customers.

Yes... there really is a relay station in each DMA, that does just that.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Thanks, Earl. I figured it was done this way.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> In most markets ( I think there is only 1 exception to this right now, and I am not 100% sure on that).
> 
> They receive the HD-Digital signal via the affiliates OTA transmission.
> They then decompress it, then re-encode it to MPEG-4 then transmit to the customers.
> ...


There also seem to be a growing number of stations where DirecTV has a fiber feed from the station - some of the station engineers have mentioned it in some of their posts.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

The feeds, whether OTA of Fiber, all go to a local "POP" or "local point-of-presence" in each market. You might find the locations in an internet search.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Can you further explain this?


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

n3ntj said:


> Can you further explain this?


Actually, the opposite it true. D* is dropping their SD fiber feeds from the stations and recieving their ATSC signals OTA. I am aware of no station with a HD fiber feed to Directv or E* at this point (though there is some discussion that the NBC affiliate in San Francisco MIGHT be the only one with a direct fiber feed as they are not located on the Mt. Sutro tower and as such San Francisco is a nightmare trying to pick up the NBC Signal from the antenna farm).

I can tell you, for example, in the first 12 markets, in most every cases Directv went to the Fox O&O studios and did tests to see if they could receive the 4 network stations at that location. Some of them worked - others did not - and they were forced to find another reception site. For example, the 3 Million Watt Wx Radar in Tampa apparently caused some issues at that location.

Just a cell companies rent tower locations and space around markets, it is very easy to rent space on a similar communication towers. Tests are conducted from that location to make sure there is no interference and a rock solid signal - and then ATSC receivers (such as a Sencore IRD 3381A are installed at that location.

The output is transcoded by a mpeg4 encoder such as the Tanberg EN8090 and sent via fiber such as a QWest QWave Fiber Connection  or a Level 3 fiber circuit to the Directv uplink site for redistribution to the home.


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## jimmyv2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

This link may help.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P1400108


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

AFAIK, the SLC stations are still fiber, at least for SDTV. We feed a QWEST fiber, which originally went to D*. We have recently found that it also is being used by E* for their local pickup.

Talk about having all your eggs in one (glass) basket!


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

This uplink was originally built for newscorp but was sold to E* I believe and was located on sky broadcast rd, now dish dr. Newscorp was going to use it as it's main studio for a sat network, and I am not sure of this, fox news


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

jimmyv2000 said:


> This link may help.
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P1400108


Thanks for that link.. cool.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

So, each uplink station has VHF and UHF antennas that feed a system that then uplinks these HD local signals via satellite to D* and E* which in turn send these back down to us via the 99 and 103 deg birds (at least for D*)?

Is this the method used for SD locals?


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

n3ntj said:


> So, each uplink station has VHF and UHF antennas that feed a system that then uplinks these HD local signals via satellite to D* and E* which in turn send these back down to us via the 99 and 103 deg birds (at least for D*)?
> 
> Is this the method used for SD locals?


Many SD locals are received OTA for DISH. Not sure what the ratio is, but the SD stations in Phoenix are received OTA for DISH, while DTV uses direct fiber feeds for many if not all of the SD stations there. As you might imagine, this impacts both PQ and reliability significantly.

DT stations are typically received OTA, but the nature of them being digital prevents any negative impact to PQ, so it is a legitimate way to acquire the signals. They then typically are transported by fiber to the uplink site. Most markets only require a UHF antenna, at least until 2009.

I'm not sure if the conversion to M4 happens at the POP or at the uplink. There would be an advantage of the need for less fiber bandwidth should the conversion happen prior to transport, yet there is probably an advantage of better conversion quality and reliability if the conversion is done after transport. M2 to M4 conversion always pays some penalty in PQ degradation, but not necessarily significantly so. It is probably a close enough call so that the decision to go one way or another is on a case-by-case basis, would be my best guess.

At any rate, the stations from a particular site are typically multiplexed into a MPTS(multiple program transport stream) and fed on a single fiber, which means trouble affecting that system can affect all locals at once, for that market.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

D* has their receiving station on North Dish Drive in Phoenix, how funny.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Even funnier if it was on Echostar lane.


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## sore_bluto (Mar 15, 2007)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Actually, the opposite it true. D* is dropping their SD fiber feeds from the stations and recieving their ATSC signals OTA. I am aware of no station with a HD fiber feed to Directv or E* at this point (though there is some discussion that the NBC affiliate in San Francisco MIGHT be the only one with a direct fiber feed as they are not located on the Mt. Sutro tower and as such San Francisco is a nightmare trying to pick up the NBC Signal from the antenna farm).


WDSU-DT New Orleans transmits DTV signal to all carriers incl. D* via fiber. No OTA due to Katrina.


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## talkdj (Jan 21, 2007)

Anyone familiar with the Cleveland, Ohio market that can tell me why WEWS Ch. 5 has an awful time with loss of signal, artifacts and digital break up on the HD signal from DTV?


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## eilloc (May 17, 2007)

I've learned so much about the workings of satellite TV from this forum; it's great! Now a question concerning the source of HD--it concerns the FSN HD feeds for baseball. FSN HD claims numerous games are available in HD this season, but getting a game in HD has proved to be impossible; my feed is Milwaukee but all of their games via D* are SD; maybe cable or E* is different. Many viewers seem to be stuck with the SD signal. Apparently one of D*'s requirements to receive an HD baseball game from FSN is that the user must also get their locals in HD. Why?


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## D*HR-20 (Jan 7, 2007)

eilloc said:


> I've learned so much about the workings of satellite TV from this forum; it's great! Now a question concerning the source of HD--it concerns the FSN HD feeds for baseball. FSN HD claims numerous games are available in HD this season, but getting a game in HD has proved to be impossible; my feed is Milwaukee but all of their games via D* are SD; maybe cable or E* is different. Many viewers seem to be stuck with the SD signal. Apparently one of D*'s requirements to receive an HD baseball game from FSN is that the user must also get their locals in HD. Why?


You need to get the locals in HD because right now they are piggy backing the HD RSNs with the HD locals as a temporary way to give people the HD sports programming until they have room to put all of the HD RSNs on CONUS. When the HD RSNs go CONUS, who gets the signal will be decided the same way the SD RSNs are which is by zip code.


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