# Audio sync issues - words don't match the lips



## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

For the past month or so I've seen an inconsistent pattern of audio sync issues. When I play back shows that I've recorded many times the audio does not match up with the lips of the actors. It's off by a fraction of a second and doesn't always happen. I've had to stop the recording, change channels and start the recording again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Has anyone else had this issue?


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## cruise350 (Dec 25, 2006)

I get this issue almost everyday on the local NBC mpeg4 channel. The rest of the channels very rarely get out of sync, and when they do usually a pause or skip back will sync it up. But on NBC nothing seems to work on a recording. Changing the channel on live tv and switching back will usually sync it up, but on recordings I just have to live with it.


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## JAYPB (May 8, 2002)

reweiss said:


> For the past month or so I've seen an inconsistent pattern of audio sync issues. When I play back shows that I've recorded many times the audio does not match up with the lips of the actors. It's off by a fraction of a second and doesn't always happen. I've had to stop the recording, change channels and start the recording again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> Has anyone else had this issue?


Just had this happen with "Flags of Our Fathers" which I recorded off of CinemaxHD--very annoying. Whenever I had to pause the damn recording, I knew I was in for a problem and I'd either have to flop back a few clicks or just hit stop and then restart again---and for me, it was doubly annoying because so much of that movie is set in the dark--and it would take 5-6 seconds for me to realize that the sound was off from the audio--only when I saw a muzzle flash on the screen or an artillery burst on screen--and then didn't "hear" anything for awhile did I realize that something was up.

Annoying....:nono:


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## JDubbs413 (Sep 4, 2007)

I think this is a result of some of the moving that DirecTV has been doing. We haven't seen the results yet but I believe that is what is causing this from time-to-time. Some people have said a reset helps but it didn't help when I saw it the other day. 

Sometimes it is a station issue too and not even a DirecTV issue.


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## JAYPB (May 8, 2002)

JDubbs413 said:


> I think this is a result of some of the moving that DirecTV has been doing. We haven't seen the results yet but I believe that is what is causing this from time-to-time. Some people have said a reset helps but it didn't help when I saw it the other day.
> 
> Sometimes it is a station issue too and not even a DirecTV issue.


The annoying thing (for me), is that I haven't truly switched over to using the HR20 for all my recording needs...instead using it as an overflow recording device or simply using it to record the new HD content that I can't get on my HR10's. Having said all that, I've started experiencing the 771 message sometimes when I happen to turn the TV on and sit down....OR I'll see pixelation on screen when I'm changing channels on the HR20....but from reading other threads on here, it seems I'm not alone in that regard.....


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## omj (Jun 28, 2007)

This constantly happens to me. I can't get it fixed no matter what I do. At first I thought it might be on my end but all the standard channels are fine. It's the HD ones that are messed up. I have complained numerous times and managed to get 5 dollars a month off my bill for a year. It's really starting to get old. Even my over the air channels do it. I have the antenna running directly to the tv so I may try and see if still does it that way. Who knows?


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

JDubbs413 said:


> I think this is a result of some of the moving that DirecTV has been doing. We haven't seen the results yet but I believe that is what is causing this from time-to-time. Some people have said a reset helps but it didn't help when I saw it the other day.
> 
> Sometimes it is a station issue too and not even a DirecTV issue.


I thought so too, but I watched a show live the other day and when I replayed the recording for a friend the audio sync was off. So the problem is definitely with the HR20-700.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

reweiss said:


> For the past month or so I've seen an inconsistent pattern of audio sync issues. When I play back shows that I've recorded many times the audio does not match up with the lips of the actors. It's off by a fraction of a second and doesn't always happen. I've had to stop the recording, change channels and start the recording again. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> Has anyone else had this issue?


I've had this issue (much more since around the beginning of the month) and reported it here. Seems to be much more common on MPEG-4 channels.


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

n3ntj said:


> I've had this issue (much more since around the beginning of the month) and reported it here. Seems to be much more common on MPEG-4 channels.


I tend to see the problem with the locals.


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## kiddk1 (Oct 17, 2003)

this is an issue with me only on HD recordings, the people on the screen even seem off in their movements.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Seen this myself a lot.. generally pausing for a minute fixes it.


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## kiddk1 (Oct 17, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Seen this myself a lot.. generally pausing for a minute fixes it.


a pause didnt fix it, I even reset the receiver as told to do so by DTV tech support and still it did not help.


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Seen this myself a lot.. generally pausing for a minute fixes it.


Do you know if D** is aware of this issue and working to fix it?

Obviously many of us are seeing this issue on the HR20s.


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

I am seeing this along with audio dropouts as well


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## omj (Jun 28, 2007)

They are aware of the issue because I called them numerous times when we still only had about 10 HD channels. I have paused, reset, and nothing works. Mine is an HD issue only. The other standard channels are fine and this only occurs on certain HD channels. They tried to blame it on the surround sound I have but even when you only use the tv volume it's still off. People need to call and report this issue. I told them I had to sign a contract to keep HD for so long for the reciever so they should at least fix the problems or I was going to cancel. I refuse to pay for something that doesn't work half the time. Hence, the 5 dollars off a month I recieve. I haven't called them lately because I keep hoping it's going to get fixed but maybe I should call again this week.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think it would be helpful to post what channels and programs are out of sync, either here or in the threads in the programming forum for that channel.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

This is not DirecTV's fault.

This problem has been existing with hi-def ever since its introduction. You'll find it on cable and E*, too. I don't know its cause but it seems to be endemic with HDTV. Some HT receivers have a time delay option built into them to get the sound back in sync with the video. This is not the same time delay you find in a Dolby Digital set-up. That delay compensates for speakers different distances away from you. This is different.

Yamaha has a feature built into many of their receivers to help fix this. So do other manufacturers. I just know Yamha better. Go half way down the following page to the bullet labelled "Audio Delay for Adjusting Lip-Sync" for an explanation.

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/av/guide/technologies/bsr/bsr1.html


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## SFS (Aug 21, 2007)

I noticed the same problem when watching Journeyman recorded on 10/15/07 on my MPEG 4 local HD broadcast. I have an HR20-100 connected to my TV by HDMI and I was listening to the sound directly from the TV itself. It was so off that it was almost unwatchable. Pausing, switching to live TV and back to the recording, etc. did not help.


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## JAYPB (May 8, 2002)

For me, it's occurred (noticeably) on CSN-HD (629) as well as Cinemax HD....both while watching via HDMI on my LCDTV as well as watching via Component/RCA AV on my RPTV.... (i.e. No HT receiver involved--as well as over 2 different audio delivery cables---HDMI on one TV and RCA jacks on the other)


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

This problem can crop up anywhere in the delivery system - at the broadcast, the uplink, your DirecTV receiver, your home theater receiver or even your TV if you use its speakers. It is an inherent bug in HDTV. If anything, it used to be worse. I used to see it all the time. Now I see it less. I'd imagine as the processing chips everyone is using for video become better, it will go away. The best you can do now is compensate for it.

And *****. This is the Internet, right? Anonymous *****ing is _de rigueur_.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

The problem is not necesarily DirecTVs to fix, although DirecTV has its part to play. You will see similar posts about audio-video sync on dish, digital cable and FIOS forums, and on forums discussing both hi-def DVDs and video processing in general. If you do a google search on A/V sync TV, you will find lots of references, including this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/V_sync and this http://tvtech.com/pages/s.0076/t.1814.html

And a quote this year from the Director of Engineering at Iowa Public Television; 
QUOTE There are actually engineering working groups (I am on several of them) that are working within the industry to create a set of standards and recommended practices to address this issue. A/V sync problems have been around for decades, but in the past, the audio usually lagged behind the video and our brains are accustomed to seeing something and then hearing the sound because in nature, sound travels slower than light and we have adapted to that. Most of the time in DTV, the sound is ahead of the video and that is very unnatural and it doesn't have to be very far off for us to notice. We are currently in the process of renovating our production facility for HD production and we are giving exceptional attention to insuring that audio and video signals travel through are systems in sync. This is not to say there won't be problems but we are working dilligently to correct them. UNQUOTE

The problem is that even if the audio and video are synced correctly at the source (and often they are not), with digital signals the audio and video are not tied together through the various stages of transmission, reception and display. Every time the digital video and audio goes through any processing , the data accumulates in queues and buffers and all these cause delays, and they are different for audio and video. This buffering, particularly of video, happens at the station, in the distribution system between the station and DirecTV, in DirecTVs transmission system, the satellite, the DirecTV receiver and the TV itself. Some TVs are notorious for adding as much as a second of delay to the video. And the delays in HD are much worse than in SD because of the large amount of data. 
There is no easy fix for this, especially since the delays involved in your equipment setup will be different from mine, that's one reason why some people see poor A/V sync and others watching the same channel don't..

The TV stations/channels are getting better at anticipating what the delays might be (and for those channels new to HD, there will be a learning curve). There are new proposals for adding data to the audio stream so that the audio and video can be synced later in the process. Some A/V receivers allow you to adjust the audio/video sync, you can also buy add-on boxes to adjust A/V sync ($500 or so). And the latest release of HDMI, HDMI 1.3, has A/V sync adjustment capabilities using an interface between the TV and the A/V receiver..

DirecTV can contribute to improving A/V sync by reducing the amount of buffering in the various stages of processing. The H20 and HR20 buffering, including the MPEG-4 decoders, can become more efficient. But I don't see a complete solution to this problem without introducing some changes in the way audio and video are handled through the processing chain.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow, great post! Thanks!


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## JAYPB (May 8, 2002)

Well, for me the oddity lies in the fact that I have 4 HR 10's in my home...some hooked up to AV receivers, and some going right into the TV to use the TV's speakers...and not one of them show any lag/lip synching problems. But, having said that, none of those 4 can "get" the new HD channels...so, my *assumption* was that it was either an HR20 issue...or a new HD channel issue...either way, IMO, the problem lied with the receiver, directv or the channel itself...and NOT my equipment/setups.

Guess I'll have to reevaluate my logic then.....:lol:


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

JAYPB said:


> Well, for me the oddity lies in the fact that I have 4 HR 10's in my home...some hooked up to AV receivers, and some going right into the TV to use the TV's speakers...and not one of them show any lag/lip synching problems. But, having said that, none of those 4 can "get" the new HD channels...so, my *assumption* was that it was either an HR20 issue...or a new HD channel issue...either way, IMO, the problem lied with the receiver, directv or the channel itself...and NOT my equipment/setups.
> 
> Guess I'll have to reevaluate my logic then.....:lol:


Not necesarily. Your HR10s do not receive the new MPEG-4 channels, and that's where most of the problems currently are. If you think about the HD locals, they are going out in MPEG-2 OTA and then being converted by DirecTV to MPEG-4. There are a couple of stages in buffering there. Then there's probably more buffering in the sat uplink system, then in the HR20. The MPEG-4 decoders I believe use more buffering than the MPEG-2 ones. And the HR20 may use more buffering than the HR10 anyway. All of that means that if the sync is OK on the MPEG-2 channels, it is almost bound to be incorrect on MPEG-4, unless DirecTV delays the audio to make up for it. Same problem on the new HD locals - if the sync is correct for the SD version, it will not be correct for the HD version unless the channel or DirecTV corrects for it.

We will probably find that the sync improves on the HD locals and new HD channels as the system settles down and the channels adjust the sync delay.

Although I did get some sync problems on the MPEG-2 HD channels on my HR10.

But the problem still comes down to the lack of any way of guaranteeing sync between audio and video. All the adjustments people can make are just an attempt to fix a problem they can't really solve.


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

ggergm said:


> This is not DirecTV's fault.
> 
> This problem has been existing with hi-def ever since its introduction. You'll find it on cable and E*, too. I don't know its cause but it seems to be endemic with HDTV. Some HT receivers have a time delay option built into them to get the sound back in sync with the video. This is not the same time delay you find in a Dolby Digital set-up. That delay compensates for speakers different distances away from you. This is different.
> 
> ...


What I don't understand is why I don't see this problem with live TV, but I do with a recorded show. It would seem to me if the live show looks good then the problem lies in the recording device and how it plays back video and audio. In my case, the HR20.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

^ Please read texasbit's two excellent posts upthread. He explains it all. Even on live TV, both the audio and the video are still passing through buffers before they get to your HR20. There is nothing in the HDTV standard to keep those two signals sync'd as the leave those buffers.

Rarely on a technical forum have a read posts both as detailed and as readible as texasbrit's two posts. I agree with Stuart Sweet. Great posts, texasbrit.


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

So basically because it's difficult to get the HD audio and video to sync properly and each point where the synching happens the chance of degradation increases,
the HR20 is one extra point where they can get out of sync. That is why we're seeing this sync issue on recordings?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

^ Sounds good to me. The real test would be to watch the program live and see if there was a sync issue, then watch the recording. For example, while I've seen sync problems in the past few days on live broadcasts, I've never seen one on something I've recorded. I seem to be lucky.


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

ggergm said:


> ^ Sounds good to me. The real test would be to watch the program live and see if there was a sync issue, then watch the recording. For example, while I've seen sync problems in the past few days on live broadcasts, I've never seen one on something I've recorded. I seem to be lucky.


I seem to have the opposite problem. I see it on recordings but not live programs. And specifically I've seen parts of live programs where the sync problem doesn't exist but it does when I play back that same recorded show.


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## Nighty (Sep 4, 2007)

Had this same issue last night on FSNPTHD (653)... It was so annoying, I had to watch the SD version...


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## sail121j (Oct 18, 2007)

Watching TLC-HD tonight and the audio was out of sync big time with the video - although the commercials for the most part were ok and most of them looked HD to me


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## mbresee (Jul 13, 2007)

I was experiencing the same problem today. Went to watch Bionic Woman that I taped last night from NBC, big time sync issue. Tried to watch the taped Life, same problem. I had also taped Deja Vu off of STZwHD and that also had the lip sync issue.

Deleted Bionic Woman, since it will be re-aired Saturday night, didn't matter. Tried to restart each recording from the beginning no luck.

Went to STZwHD live today and didn't see a problem. Started recording Glory Road then went back to one of the other recordings and the sync problem was fixed. Deja Vu, Life and Glory Road all had the audio/video in sync.


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## jsparks (Oct 25, 2007)

The voice sync problems that I have been experiencing this month happen only on the HD channels and are accompanied with video speed jitter. The video itself is off speed - with hesitations and speed ups and the sound can be 2-5 seconds off. The worse the video speed up/slowdown the greater the sound is out of sync.

I don't think it is the standard HD voice out of sync with the lips issue as described above.


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

As with many other issues with their MPEG4 transmissions, D* dosen't seem in too much of a hurry to deal with the long-standing audio/video-sync issues. Usually they just blame the programmer.
It's been going on since the first MPEG2 HD broadcasts and is clearly hit-and-miss (I seem to see it most often on Showtime, but others, including the networks, do it too).


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