# Echostar posts $716Million LOSS for Q4



## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...63&e=3&u=/ap/20030304/ap_en_tv/earns_echostar

EchoStar Reports $716M Loss for 4Q

LITTLETON, Colo. - EchoStar Communications Corp., the nation's second biggest satellite TV company, posted a $716 million loss for the fourth quarter Tuesday, largely because of charges related to the collapse of its planned merger with Hughes Electronics Corp.

The loss amounted to 45 cents per share for the three month period ending Dec. 31, compared with a loss of $42.8 million in the same period last year.

The Littleton-based company, which owns the Dish Network satellite service, reported $1.3 billion in revenues, up 15 percent from $1.1 billion in the fourth quarter of 2001.

The Dish Network had 8.18 million subscribers at the end of 2002, an increase of 1.35 million over 2001.

Shares of EchoStar rose $1.49, or nearly 6 percent, to $27.44 in afternoon trading on the Nasdaq Stock Market.

The merger of EchoStar and rival Hughes Electronics, which owns the satellite TV industry leader DirecTV, fell apart last year in the face of government opposition. The two companies finally abandoned the merger in December after trying for several months to revise their proposal.

The breakup of the deal resulted in EchoStar taking charges against earnings of $690 million, including a breakup fee to Hughes Electronics.

In 2002, EchoStar lost $881 million, or 92 cents per share, compared to losses of $215.5 million, or 45 cents per share, in 2001. Revenue rose to $4.8 billion from $4 billion in 2001.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Thats not a bad loss at all considering $600 million was paid to DirecTV for the failed merger.

All things considered, it sounded like a good quarter for Echostar


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## blingbling (Sep 6, 2002)

E* stock closed up 6.55% today while the rest of the markets tanked. Pretty good day for E* - you post a huge loss and your stock shoots up!


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Thats not a bad loss at all considering $600 million was paid to DirecTV for the failed merger.
> 
> All things considered, it sounded like a good quarter for Echostar *


Yup, I think they posted the $600m in their books as a loss so they could write it off in their taxes.


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## DaYooper (Jan 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by raj2001 _
> *
> 
> Yup, I think they posted the $600m in their books as a loss so they could write it off in their taxes. *


Umm, that's how they are supposed to report the charge.

I'd be willing to bet that the information E* learned by looking over D*'s books will easily allow them to make back twice that $600 million.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DaYooper _
> *
> 
> Umm, that's how they are supposed to report the charge.
> ...


Remember D* also saw E*'s books too.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

From todays Rocky Mountain News:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/technology/article/0,1299,DRMN_49_1788627,00.html


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Charlie is not as dumb as we sometimes think he is. :lol:

I would still love to play some low stakes poker with Charlie.


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## jeffcarp (Oct 21, 2002)

I listened to the earnings conference call and the analyst were very complimentary of Echostar's performance. Charlie Ergen also said that they would have a broadband strategy "shortly."


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I still wonder how well a satellite broadband would be. I don't know if they will be able to overcome the lag associated with such distances. 

Still it will be interesting to see how it plays out.


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## jayn_j (Dec 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Charlie is not as dumb as we sometimes think he is. :lol:
> 
> I would still love to play some low stakes poker with Charlie.  *


I don't think Charlie plays low stakes at anything.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Okay, lets see here.... $716 million loss minus $690 million one-time write-off is $26 million loss. However, consider the factors:

* The failed DirecTV-Dish merger. While it is a $690 million loss, the book is essentially closed. And, in exchange for not having to acquire PanAmSat, Dish agreed not to litigate. Good move.
* Right now, Dish is pushing the AT50 plan with locals for $29.95+equipment. Their latest commercial, which I heard on radio, actually talked about the "free local channels on cable" myth. Under the current economy, this may be the best plan to market to the end user. 

Possible weaknesses:
* New York Region: The failure for Dish and YE$ to reach an agreement for carriage of that R$N may cause the loss of subscribers in that key market.
* Philadelphia Region: Unlike the YE$ situation where the R$N is actually negotiating, the Philadelphia cable provider has REFUSED to even talk about carrying the R$N in their market, and using a loophole to do so. Ownership of the teams in that region plays a major factor.

Possible strengths:
* Rising cable prices: The AT-50 package contains most of the popular channels that people want to watch minus a R$N, and for many people, this is the cable killer. 
* New local markets: Dish is adding markets in low-rated DMAs, which bring in new subscribers.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Consider also that Charlie stated that this year they should be able to begin paying off some of that debt that is hanging out there. They already paid some off this Qtr, but this should accelerate through the year.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cyclone _
> *I still wonder how well a satellite broadband would be. I don't know if they will be able to overcome the lag associated with such distances.
> 
> Still it will be interesting to see how it plays out. *


That's probably important mostly to gamers. I'd love to have good satellite broadband available so I can finally buy that house in the country I always wanted.


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## Karl Foster (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by raj2001 _
> *
> 
> That's probably important mostly to gamers. I'd love to have good satellite broadband available so I can finally buy that house in the country I always wanted. *


You'd go crazy moving from NYC to the country! How would you get food at 3:00 a.m.? How would you watch the freaks in Times Square in the country?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I am going crazy here with boredom after moving from Minneapolis to the lazy Florida town of Vero Beach. I very much enjoyed the live music scene of Minneapolis and haven't seen any good music acts since moving here 5 years ago (with the exception of Rick Derringer who played for a convention here one time). I do, however have a good satellite broadband system in Starband here. It would be too expensive for me though if I couldn't justify it as a dealer. It will be interesting to see what E* comes up with as an alternative.


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## waydwolf (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Cyclone _
> *I still wonder how well a satellite broadband would be. I don't know if they will be able to overcome the lag associated with such distances.
> 
> Still it will be interesting to see how it plays out. *


 22,300 miles will remain 22,300 miles no matter what they imagine at Echostar or Hughes. 44,600 is still a sizeable portion of 186,284 as far as data is concerned.

And bandwidth is no picnic as they have one broadcast delivery system for the entire continent and have to squeeze increasing HD content into an already crowded SD digital scheme. They just don't have the broadcast flexibility for it.

Cable on the other hand can squeeze as many as three HD channels or 38Mbps per 6Mhz slot at 256QAM and have 54Mhz-806Mhz to play with, and if the FCC continues with their drive to get everyone in the country to play nice and share spectrum, that could go way up into the satellite IF space eventually.

And cable systems can do "high side split" systems where the return path isn't in the 5Mhz-42Mhz band but up in the top end above 500Mhz where you can truly have blazing speeds up as well as down.

Now, they've talked in the industry before about a constellation of low Earth orbit birds about 500 miles up, and flat antennas and 500 channels and high speed data, but all it has ever been is talk. Cable is evolving rapidly to where it could very easily kill satellite except in mobile entertainment, and satellite is deep in debt, the economy bites, and the capital investment for more birds is humongous.

My money at this point is on satellite broadband as a last ditch no other choice option way behind cable and slightly behind DSL. Especially given the projections of increasing wireless area networks continuing to pop up. It isn't hard to imagine the cable companies using their DOCSIS capabilities to put combination modems and tri-mode(802.11a/b/g) wireless access points every so often on their lines throughout their areas and offering pay-for-access.

Terrestrial wireless is continuing to slowly creep along and is likely to overtake satellite Internet easily in the next several years. Especially with the MVDDS (Multichannel Video Data & Distribution Service) auction which will almost certainly happen despite the objections of Hughes and Echostar.

Satellite Internet isn't dead, but the current providers' lack of intelligence in market positioning and refusal to play to its chief strength is what is keeping it in the intensive care unit and only the providers' willingness to take a loss on it in vain hope of making the business work keeps it on life support.


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

I agree that it would be better than nothing out in a nice Mountain home. 

But for all of us Urban/Suburban dwellers where Cable Modems and DSL get good ping times (yeah, us gamers) this stuff really can be a deal breaker.

I still wonder.... I guess I'll have to wait for the reviews here.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2003)

At the time the merger was announced GMH had a market value of 9.2 Billion more than Echostar. When the merger was dissolved, they were approximately equal. Now Echostar has a market value of 5.2 Billion more than GMH. Charlie net worth probably has increased 2 Billion since the end of the merger. If that is dumb then sign me up.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by karl_f _
> *
> 
> You'd go crazy moving from NYC to the country! How would you get food at 3:00 a.m.? How would you watch the freaks in Times Square in the country?  *


I was born and raised in the country. I feel like I'm in prison in NYC!

I wouldn't mind still working in NY, I'd just like to be able to go home and smell some fresh air.


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

Hey you! Yes YOU, pez2002, what are YOU lookin' at?


Whats that For What did i Do I just Noticed That Just now Its in all of your posts


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by pez2002 _
> *Hey you! Yes YOU, pez2002, what are YOU lookin' at?
> 
> Whats that For What did i Do I just Noticed That Just now Its in all of your posts *


LOL. In case you haven't figured it out by now, go look in the Survivor Amazon section.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Pez its a long story (it has nothing to do with you) There is a command on the board which automaticly inserts your username when a message with that commend is displayed.

I have removed the sig line from raj's signature file to prevent future confusion.

I ask everyone not to abuse the hidden you command.

Thanks


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## Karl Foster (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Pez its a long story (it has nothing to do with you) There is a command on the board which automaticly inserts your username when a message with that commend is displayed.
> 
> I have removed the sig line from raj's signature file to prevent future confusion.
> ...


Isn't that like trying to stuff the Genie back in the bottle?


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