# What do you do with kids and the internet.



## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

My oldest is turning 7 this year and as his reading skills improve, he will have more control over what he does on the computer.

Naturally, I am concerned over what he sees.

I am curious about others' experiences. I have a hard time believing there is any truly effective system (software or hardware), but what works the best?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Perhaps there is software out there that allows one to go to only certain websites with a certain url address in which may work the best. As time goes by you could add url's to the list of acceptable ones. I think that is what would work best. The links would not be accessable unless it was an approved url.


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## toomuchtv (May 17, 2002)

When mine was that age, we did the following w/ great results:
1. set time limits
2. monitor youngster while online (not just sit & watch over his shoulder - just be aware)
3. do not allow chat rooms & verify "buddy" lists
4. do not allow him to sign up for anything until he gets your approval
5. never give out age or address
6. review history & visit unfamiliar sites for yourself

My son never showed signs of feeling restricted or spied on. Be firm & lay out the ground rules right from the start.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

A note about filtering software, when kids are younger its a great way to keep them from accidentally stumbling upon inappropriate websites, but has they get older and if they have an intent to visit some websites they're not supposed to, it's really not that hard to do with a little knowledge. About a year and a half ago, for fun, I went on Morpheus and downloaded some filtering software, Net Nanny, Cyber Patrol and a few others. I don't know what the new versions are like but they were incredibly easy to get around. My favorite is with Norton Internet Security, you can add www.aol.com to the blocked list but that doesn't stop you from going to 205.188.160.89. You have to add both numeric IP and URL to the blocked list and then there are probably even ways to get around that.

Question for AOL users, I never had any sort of internet restrictions on me at home and the ones at school I 'hacked' around as to allow me to visit this site, but with the AOL Parental Controls, do they still work if you log on AOL, then minimize it and use Netscape/Mozillia or IE?


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## John Walsh (Apr 22, 2002)

Steve Mehs said:


> Question for AOL users, I never had any sort of internet restrictions on me at home and the ones at school I 'hacked' around as to allow me to visit this site, but with the AOL Parental Controls, do they still work if you log on AOL, then minimize it and use Netscape/Mozillia or IE?


I don't use AOL but when I send a friend or family member a link and they say it won't work in AOL I just tell them to open a browser outside of aol and it has always seemed to work. Now all of these people are accessing AOL via a broadband connection so that may make a difference. But to answer your question, yes there always seems to be a way around any kind of controls or restrictions


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## Orcatek (May 1, 2003)

I use Norton Internet security. It has an option where you can run an approved only list. This is what I do for my kids.

This takes alot of work and understanding of how web pages work.

I wanted to give my kids access to nick.com. Site came up, but no graphics. Turns out the graphics are hosted at another domain. In the end it took four domains to get it working.

For me it was worth the hour I spend to get it working. My kids can only go to the few sites I permit. No out dated filters to worry about. 

They are 8 and 10. At some point I will need to consider another option, but for now, it works.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I never thought about turning off the pictures. I also wonder if there is a way to not show certain words that come up on a screen or to black them out.


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## waydwolf (Feb 2, 2003)

I've noted that people busy giving other people orgasms during sex don't usually kill anyone. Also, people busy killing other people don't usually give anyone orgasms. Sex starts often enough with the visuals while killing usually starts with words in print and speech.

As a consequence, my wife and I have decided that as soon as our son can find a playboy or similar and takes an interest in it, he can have it... AFTER I've ripped the articles out.

Similarly, the other than chatrooms where some scumbags hang out, I don't see much of a problem with kids using the net. If they see porn, it isn't any more than they desire to do sooner or later anyhow. What would disturb me is if my son DIDN'T watch porn sites and instead spent all his time on a physics or engineering site. We have umpteen univeristy libraries in CT for that. The net is for enjoyment, and he should use it that way. Neither my wife nor I see a need to coddle them, patronize them, and act like we were never their age. Making them go no farther than approved safe sites would be taken as a dire insult to their intelligence.

Your milage may vary however. In other words, you're sooner or later on your own. Good luck.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

waydwolf said:


> I've noted that people busy giving other people orgasms during sex don't usually kill anyone. Also, people busy killing other people don't usually give anyone orgasms. Sex starts often enough with the visuals while killing usually starts with words in print and speech.
> 
> As a consequence, my wife and I have decided that as soon as our son can find a playboy or similar and takes an interest in it, he can have it... AFTER I've ripped the articles out.


You know that Dad usually breathes a sign of relief the first time he find a playboy under the Son's matress.


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## John Walsh (Apr 22, 2002)

gcutler said:


> You know that Dad usually breathes a sign of relief the first time he find a playboy under the Son's matress.


you know I can relate to that. Just yesterday my son was chatting with his cousing on MSN messenger and I was monitoring his conversation from another computer. I can't deny that I wasn't a little proud when they started talking about girls (he's only 10). I was also happy to hear my 6 year old talking about the boys she thinks are cute in her class. Now honestly I will probably be a total a**hole to any boy that comes around for my daughters but it will be an act.

If it turned out that any of my kids go the other way I will have no problem with that either. I would be happier if they all are hetero but I would never hold it against them, they are my kids and I love them regardless of anything..... yes anything


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Here is my advice

* Put the computer in a "common" room where other family members will most likely be. Don't put it in the kid's room.
* Don't save the password on the DUN connection. The parent should have to enter it all the time. 
* There are programs out there that will monitor which sites the kids go to. Some are proactive in blocking sites, while others run in the background and logs the sites they visit, the times, and even does screen shots.

Check out this Internet Starting Points. I specifically went to the Kid's section, but there is a sampling of links.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

Our youngest is now 15. For a while he had a computer in his room, but now we have all the computers in the house (4), in one room (except for my laptop, which is in our bedroom. It isn't that he is never in the office without others being there, but its also not the same as sitting in his room by himself. We all see a lot more of each other this way, even if we are working/playing on different things. It makes playing games over the LAN easier. Surprisingly, he didn't have any problem at all in with putting his computer in the office with the rest.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

History in Explorer will show the sites that one visited.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Z'Loth said:


> Here is my advice
> 
> * Put the computer in a "common" room where other family members will most likely be. Don't put it in the kid's room.


Thats a good one, my brother did that (and only allow access during family hours). The only problem becomes if the kid complains that he can't get work done because of the common room noise (a valid possiblity). That is where it is hard to fight, if you have an old PC, let the kid have it in his room to write the reports (no modem or NIC on that PC), but anything internet based they have to go to the family room to research and print out or floppy it back to old PC. (Better than running to the library every time I needed to do research when I was a kid)


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Jacob S said:


> History in Explorer will show the sites that one visited.


Not necessarily. There are programs that can effective clean the cache and history files. Older versions of TweakUI had a paranoia tab. MyIE2 has an option to clean cache and history on closing. Norton Cleansweep can also purge the cache and history files.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Plus it's not that hard just to go into the internet options and click clear history, or go into the windows folder and delete the files manually.


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

There is no way my kids will have a net connected computer, or even a TV, in their rooms.

I currently have a cable modem and a router. I have heard about routers with filters, but one that records all sites visited would be good.

Years ago I tried out a program called Wingate. Thus was before Windows ICS. It kept a record of all the activity of the client machines. I was acutally considering setting up a server to run all internet. Like a company does.



How do you monitor messenger converstations? Is that part of MSN? or something else?


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Rick Densing said:


> Years ago I tried out a program called Wingate. Thus was before Windows ICS. It kept a record of all the activity of the client machines. I was acutally considering setting up a server to run all internet. Like a company does.


Not a Bad Idea...That isn't that hard to do these days, even a 3-4 year old PC would do the job well, the question is which SW. I've worked with MS Proxy Server and MS Internet Security & Acceleration server and Lotus Notes/Domino Proxy services. The only problem would be cost of LEGALLY implementing the SW. You would probably want to go Linux from a SW option/cost point of view, but you might have to get yourself to at least a medium level of linux profeciency in order to get that working.

Or maybe you may want to investigate one of those Small business routers/firewalls (they will cost you more than $50 like most of us have spent on home routers/firewalls) But in the $200-$500 range a router/firewall might give you the services you are insterested in (without having to build up a server)

My last implementation of something like that was a few years ago, but for a county school system, every school in the county had a Proxy type server with a fixed list of sites that it could visit, and in order to visit a new site, someone had to fill out a request (with approval of teacher for students or manager for employees) it was kind of harsh in the approval process, but the chance of kids visiting invalid web sites was just about NIL. But the Bearuacracy of allowing even DBStalk.com would be slow and annoying (approval was via committee unless it was obvious like seasmestreet.com or something outright geared for K-12.)


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## John Walsh (Apr 22, 2002)

Rick Densing said:


> How do you monitor messenger converstations? Is that part of MSN? or something else?


Most IM's let you log all conversations. I shut them down on mine


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I once had to clean up a friend's father's computer. He had been visited by a 16 year old. The whole computer was filled with porn and spyware. It was a big mess. Just a few days of unrestricted internet access pretty much took over the computer. It almost would have been better to reinstall the computer.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

Rick Densing said:


> My oldest is turning 7 this year and as his reading skills improve, he will have more control over what he does on the computer.
> 
> Naturally, I am concerned over what he sees.
> 
> I am curious about others' experiences. I have a hard time believing there is any truly effective system (software or hardware), but what works the best?


Rick, unless your 7 year old is really precocious, and I'm certainly not suggesting he isn't, I would guess that your concern at this point is not that he is going to be looking for porn, like the 16 year old just mentioned, but that he will stumble into something he had no intention of finding. For your purposes at this time I would think that one of the CyberPatrol/NetNanny programs would do the job. I had one of these on the computer when I had two teen-age boys in the house, and I didn't want to have to figure out who was looking at/downloading what. Plus, I could set it so that each user only got a predetermined time on the computer. Handy when I had a computer hog in the house. It seemed to work pretty well. In fact, when my wife was doing research for a paper on child sexual abuse we had to turn it off.

I'd say you have about 2 to 3 years to think about the maximum security stuff. Or you can do what I have done. Since we have already discussed how a determined person can bypass anything, discuss what is appropriate and what isn't. You can do all you want to lock down the computer, or to catch your kid viewing inappropriate material, but that's only going to train him to be more sneaky. You know how we as boys used to know the guy (or perhaps you were the guy) who had a father or big brother with Playboys etc.? Same thing today. Your kid is going to know someone with access to an unmonitored computer. The best thing you can do is talk with him about what is appropriate. I know what's on my son's computer, and I let him know I know. There are some things that probably shouldn't be there, but I don't make a big deal out of it because is a 15 year old boy. I'll mention something I saw on his computer, and when I check back, usually it's gone. That reminds me, I haven't checked back to see if the Buffy game is still there. 

I still think the best solution is to be in the room when he is on the computer. Works better than any hardware/software solution you could come up with.


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

Bogy said:


> Rick, unless your 7 year old is really precocious, and I'm certainly not suggesting he isn't, I would guess that your concern at this point is not that he is going to be looking for porn, like the 16 year old just mentioned, but that he will stumble into something he had no intention of finding.


That was the main concern right now. We have favorites set up for him and his brothers, and up until now that is all he used.

The real danger is like you said. He has been trying to enter his own searches in google. Soon he will be more competent and then it will be a real concern. I was curious how well those programs work.

When he is older, if it was just Playboys under the mattress, I am not that concerned. But today you can find stuff that would have made my eyes fall out when I was 14.

I know that I won't be able to prevent it in the later years, but I think the not in my house message is a powerful one.

I still remember when we were talking to a girl in a class in high school. She was known as a heavy drinker. When asked why she did it, her response was, "My parents don't care." When pressed further, that seemed to be the main reason.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

I lay a little guilt trip on the kids that considering what dad does for a living, having porn on the computer, no matter who put it there, could have serious repercussions. More or less effective.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Bogy said:


> I lay a little guilt trip on the kids that considering what dad does for a living, having porn on the computer, no matter who put it there, could have serious repercussions. More or less effective.


I knew the daughter of a Baptist preacher, and lets just say she obviously was immune to any of her daddie's preaching. You have to be careful to not overdo it...


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

IMO there is only one way to stop kids from going places on the internet they should not be going...

The Cyber Nun


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

For logging IM conversations, and I mentioned this program before, I recommend a program called SpyAgent. It's a key logger that records all computer activity and can completely lockdown a PC. It can take screen shots as often as every second at varying quality as not to eat up disc space. Both sides of IM conversations are recorded for the 4 major IM clients (AIM, YIM, ICQ and MSN), passwords, wheatear manually typed in or remembered are logged in section you can see what programs were opened and what was typed in them, and much more. If your have an always on connection, you can have all the recorded information sent to you via email to see what some one is doing on the pc when you’re not there as it's happening. It runs in complete stealth mode and is an incredible program!

That said, like I said above, I've had the internet since I was 11, I never had any parental controls, never been spied on, never had any restrictions, the computer has always been in my room, been watching rated r movies since I was 6, listen to Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails and I came out perfectly fine.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

James_F said:


> IMO there is only one way to stop kids from going places on the internet they should not be going...
> 
> The Cyber Nun


Real or Virtual Ruler to smack against your knuckles.


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## Cyber Nun (Jun 27, 2003)

gcutler said:


> Real or Virtual Ruler to smack against your knuckles.


Thou shall view PORN!


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Ahhh, the Virtual Vadican.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Cyber Nun said:



> Thou shalt not view PORN!


Whoops, Tooo Late, You want a list of my favorite sites :blush:


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## Cyber Nun (Jun 27, 2003)

gcutler said:


> Whoops, Tooo Late, You want a list of my favorite sites :blush:


 have a special prayer for you that includes the words "genital warts".


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Geeze, Now a Days you hear "Genital Warts", and you say to yourself, "Whoa, It could be alot worse". As long as no one hits them with a ruler !pride


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## Cyber Nun (Jun 27, 2003)

*Cyber Nun whips her ruler from the holster on her hip....

Don't try me, boy! :mad2:

Opps, I mean.... :angel:


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Ok James enough of CyberNun please


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

Just do a search for Parental Control Software on Google and you will find quite a bit. Also try http://www.getnetwise.org

Some of the better apps include IM logging, email monitoring and logging, password control, etc. You should also consider using the BIOS password and turn on the computer for them. A more secure option is to make sure your internet connection terminates in a locked room and you configure your firewall to allow traffic only at particular times from that workstation.

This all depends on the sphoistication of your child.

Hope this helps.


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## Cyber Nun (Jun 27, 2003)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Ok James enough of CyberNun please


I have no idea what you are talking about my son... I believe James_F has left and doesn't plan to return...

BUT, I must go. I have to help the holy father with dinner.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Cyber Nun May be following him. 

And who said James_F? 

You had me going I thought Hector was back haha


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## Cyber Nun (Jun 27, 2003)

He was the nice gentleman who alerted me to your wonderful website. I dont' know many James' so I assumed you were talking about him. Computers are still very new to me so I don't know much. I wack the keyboard with my ruler and nothing happens.


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## Cyber Nun (Jun 27, 2003)

I can't believe you would kick a little old nun out...


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

Steve Mehs said:


> That said, like I said above, I've had the internet since I was 11, I never had any parental controls, never been spied on, never had any restrictions, the computer has always been in my room, been watching rated r movies since I was 6, listen to Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails and I came out perfectly fine.


Are you done yet?



One in a million my friend......


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