# If the HR10-250 TIVO had mpeg4 HD would you prefer it to the HR20-700?



## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

*This poll is only for people who have the HR10-250 TIVO*. I wish the HR10-250 could be converted to mpeg4 so we could get the new HD channels.


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## jmschnur (Aug 30, 2006)

Good HDMI connectons, Media share and the ethernet internet connection is a winner


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

If anyone knows someone who could make the HR10-250 mpeg4 compatible please PM me and let me know. I'd be willing to sacrafice one of mine for this experiment.


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## PlanetBill (May 8, 2006)

doesn't belong in CE forum...


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## gmmorrell (Aug 25, 2006)

There was a time when I preferred the Tivo based units but now I prefer my HR-20.

I particularly love the consistent interface on my 2 HR-20s and 1 H-20. And I don't get any questions from the missus about how to use the HR-20 anymore.


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## TimGoodwin (Jun 29, 2004)

At one time yes but not anymore.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

jmschnur said:


> Good HDMI connectons, Media share and the ethernet internet connection is a winner


P.S The HR10-250 has all this and more, but not Media Share.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

When the R15 first came out, I was somewhat scared to give any D* developed DVR a chance. Then the HR20 came out with similar problems and I was going to keep my HR10's till they dies.

Then I got one of the first HR20's my Best Buy got and it wasn't that bad. And it has gotten so much better via the CE process.

I am at the point that I prefer the HR20 to the HR10. I do miss the DLB's, but the HR20 has other features I like better. One for example is last night the wife and I were watching something recorded and every few minutes I would use "Prev Channel" to go back to the games and the back to the recorded program. To do that via TiVo would have taken several commands to do what a single button press on the HR20 does. And the one press record feature is also better than TiVo.

With all that said, I have not had near the issues some have had with the HR20. Only a couple of missed recordings in a year.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

No..... Here's why:

1) After using the DirecTV GUI for 2 years now... I absolutely can not stand having to constantly go to a FULL SCREEN menu to access most menu, and the Picture in Guide... is icing on the cake

2) The ability to overlap record on the same channel, without using the 2nd tuner... is FANTASTIC... I can now add minutes to each end of NBC recordings on Monday night, SCI-FI on Fridays, and during the Avatar marathon's... they didn't even come close to starting/stoping on time...

3) I find the scheduling performace speed, fantastic. I can adjust my prioritizer, and not have to wait 5/10/15/30 minutes (yes in the past I walked away, because it was taking so long), for it to come on. Then add in the single button records, without confirmation screens... to quickly set things up

4) DoD, Media Share, Remote Book (Which may come to HR10 in January)... all are extremely nice features...

5) All video outputs active at once, is great when I want to capture the video source in 480i, when still watching the program in HD

6) SWM... mint... I have gone from 4 run to my main area, to just 1... I can now use those cables for other things... but really is an impact is for other people... that don't have more then one.

7) Caller-ID on the screen... as much as some people think it is lazy... It is just something nice to have.

8) The 90 minute buffer is very nice, as it can have an entire 1hr show in there...

9) The Date/Time movement feature in the guide... is either more easily found, or just easier to use... as for the 6+ years I actively used a TiVo based unit... I don't recall ever using it... and recently was corrected that it was actually there.

10) No annoying.. "Can I change the channel on the BACKGROUND tuner, because I want to record a suggestion" Dialogs


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

alwayscool said:


> If anyone knows someone who could make the HR10-250 mpeg4 compatible please PM me and let me know. I'd be willing to sacrafice one of mine for this experiment.


A specilized hardware decoder is required and that doesn't exist in the HR10-250. The processing elements are also too slow. Sorry, out of luck.

Bob


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

PlanetBill said:


> doesn't belong in CE forum...


Move to HR20 Q&A


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

alwayscool said:


> If anyone knows someone who could make the HR10-250 mpeg4 compatible please PM me and let me know. I'd be willing to sacrafice one of mine for this experiment.


It can not be done... unless someone out there, privately as I have never seen it...

Has managed to replace the decoder chipset... updated the dssapp to "see" the new channel designations... and replaced the tuners (And software) to see the two new sats.


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## Woody_1 (Jan 11, 2007)

At one point, there would have been no question that my preference would have been the HR-10.
With all the updates on the HR-20, I now prefer it.
In addition, I could not do remote booking on my HR-10, I could not view media from my PC. Didn't have caller ID, or RF remote control.
I like viewing the active channel while looking in the guide.
Yes, I know you could do some of those things with a hacked HR-10, but the HR-20 does it for me with a simple CE download.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

alwayscool said:



> P.S The HR10-250 has all this and more, but not Media Share.


Not necessarily a "good" HDMI connection.

My first unit (which was #5 in the nation)... had a good HDMI... but it's hard drive failed... Replacement #1, bad HDMI... Replacement #2, bad HDMI... 2 month wait for Replacement #3.... I bought an HDMI/DVI DVD player, so that the HR10-250 could use component.

Still to this day, there are HR10-250's that have failing HDMI daughter boards... so much that a 3rd party has an entire buisness repairing, just that one major hardware flaw.

And the HR10-250 does not have a network connection, unless you open it up and hack it.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

No, I would keep my HR20. There are too many things that I like better than my DirecTivo to give it up.

The only thing I really miss is *DLB*.

If the *SLB* worked flawlessly I would have little to complain about.

Mike


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

Okay, I voted before I saw the "only for HR10" owners.
Please remove my vote.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

I have only had my HR20-700 for 3 weeks now, so please forgive me! One of the things I really like about my TIVO was that I could hack it and enable more features. I guess I will just have to move into the year 2007.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

I'd be curious to see the poll results if you put this on tivocommunity's site. I am sure they would probably be reversed.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You know, I'm with Earl. TiVo was great for its time but they didn't keep up on the features and I find the HR20 to be easier for a lot of tasks. I miss one or two things but you know, that will always be like that. No deal-breaking features were lost for me.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

kmill14 said:


> I'd be curious to see the poll results if you put this on tivocommunity's site. I am sure they would probably be reversed.


1 problem with putting it there...

A lot of those users, have never used (for any length of period, some may have tried it once or twice) an HR20...

So most of those votes, would be based of posts... what they "think" of the HR20, ect...

Vs direct long term usage comparison of the two.

If you would have asked me the first two weeks of using my R15, which I would have preferred... probably would be the DTiVo....

But after a month or so, and "deprogramming" my multiple years of muscle memory on some actions... I would (and did) change my opinion.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Like others - I have moved on. I voted for HR20 being better. Quite honestly I don't even miss DLBs all that much.

I'm excited about the growth potential, etc. but I have found even for basic functions the HR20 has less of a learning curve than my HDTivo did (when friends/family come over they can just use my HR20, but my HDTivo required some guidance).

I still use my HDTivo, but honestly its now on a 20" SDTV in a play room. And thats just until I see the need to replace it. The HDMI is dead on it, and I had to replace the HD once.

Chris


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## 2000voltz (Sep 21, 2007)

I had a E* DVR before having a D* tivo, switching to tivo wasn’t that smooth for me and I find the HR 20 a greatly improved version of E* dvr (which is what I was use to in the first place) I like how you can use all the features and the interface doesn’t seem as intrusive as it does on the tivo.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

OOPS!

I voted 'NO' before I read the thread. I do not have an HR10-250 or HR20-700.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I have removed the 2 votes, per the post requests


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## raramaker (Dec 19, 2006)

I voted for the TiVo, but the only features that I miss from the TiVo are:

1) superior wishlists - I cannot setup a good Season Premiere wishlist or NFL team wishlist
2) 30-second skip vs slip - slip takes way too long
3) I hate the PIG and PIL - just get rid of the picture-in-guide and picture-in-list. These are features needed by a system that cannot pause live TV. The noise from a program I am not watching is very annoying.

Russ


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

MicroBeta said:


> No, I would keep my HR20. There are too many things that I like better than my DirecTivo to give it up.
> 
> The only thing I really miss is *DLB*.
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

In all honesty, I would want a Series 3 w/ Tivo2Go & Comeback & Swivel Search that worked for SAT signals, broadband content, etc etc etc. As Earl pointed out, the DTV-Tivo boxes had limited functionality beyond recording (which by the way it does quite well). The HR-20 has "some" network functions which I hope to see very soon, better speed, and some new bells and whistles, but a Tivo stand-alone box in all its functioning glory still is the king.

I think its ashame that DTV can't take some of the successes they have with the HR-20, and marry them with some of the additional functionality of Tivo. I hate having to settle, and I feel like I am settling for less than the best with HR-20. If I were to switch to cable completely, I would lose the content I love, and again would be settling. BAH!


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

I have both and have lived with the HR20 for a few months now. I am certainly more comfortable with the TiVo interface, having used it for seven years, but I can make my way around the DirecTV interface well enough now.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both boxes. If DirecTV ever fixed the CIR bug, then I'd probably lean in favor of the HR20. That's probably the one thing about the HR20 that I find most painful.

If DirecTV enabled all of the TiVo networking features (not available for the HR10 without hacking), that would be really nice. Some of them are there already, some may come in the future.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

alwayscool said:


> I have only had my HR20-700 for 3 weeks now, so please forgive me! One of the things I really like about my TIVO was that I could hack it and enable more features. I guess I will just have to move into the year 2007.


But that's the thing about the HR20. Most of the things you would want to hack an Tivo to do is a built in function of the HR20 (networking and caller ID just to name a couple). 

I did vote but I don't have an HR10 (didn't see that at first). But I have had (and still do) several DirecTivo's so I think I am still qualified to vote. The HR10 is nothing more then a standard DirecTivo with HD at the end of the day.


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## Fish Man (Apr 22, 2002)

I voted "No- Like the HR20 better" (Why does the poll specify "-700"? Seems to me the feature set of the "700" and "100" are identical, so your preference regarding the HR20 vs. the HR10 (either way) would apply equally to the "100" or "700", no?)

Anyway, I voted "no" but my opinion is close to "don't care", as they are both well designed devices.

HR20 advantages:

Overlap recordings on the same channel/tuner.
Faster user interface reaction, especially when re-arranging priorities.
PIP in guide and lists. Actually, sometimes I find this annoying, other times I like it. The other day, my wife actually said, "Thanks, you spoiled the ending!", when I momentarily had the live ending of the show in the PIP as I selected the show to watch from the playlist.
90 minute buffer.
DirecTV Interactive enabled.

HR10 advantages:

Dual live buffers.
CIR that, while manual to set up, actually works.
Autorecording wishlists.
Autorecording suggestions.
More useful, versatile, and more intuitive search features.
Better handling of repeat vs. first run.

So, I like them both. HR20 gets the edge, slightly, mostly for the ability to overlap two recordings on the same tuner, and quicker user interface response.


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## thepoloman33 (Jun 20, 2006)

A year ago my answer would have been easy....HD TiVo by a mile.

At that time, the HR20 was a mess. Missed recordings, keep and delete, fast forwarding disasters...I don't care what any one says, it was not ready for prime time.

Things are way different now. My HR20s are rock solid. They are fast, reliable, and have some great features.

I still love TiVo but I think the HR20 is a better DVR.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

Sorry, I voted, but I do not have the HD TiVo. I had the SD TiVo, and I much preferred it, but no HD, so it had to go...


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## tomski35 (Sep 7, 2007)

Dual Live Buffres!


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

I loved TiVo but I would take the HR20 over TiVo any day now.

- The #1 thing I like more is when you are watching a recording you can still control everything on the HR20. That is a big plus to me.

- SWM 

- DoD

- P.I.G.

- Media Share

- Remote Booking

- You can use a eSATA drive for more storage.

- All A/V outputs work at the same time. Big plus for the SlingBox.


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## Maik (Jul 27, 2006)

tomski35 said:


> Dual Live Buffres!


Ditto. Dual live buffers is the only thing missing as far as I am concerned. I also wish that I could record a series and have it end 1 minute less. My wife records Desperate Housewives at 9PM but it is scheduled to end at 10:01 so it conflicts with two 10PM recordings. As far as I know the only way to handle it is with a manual recording, but I have to do each week individually.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Maik said:


> Ditto. Dual live buffers is the only thing missing as far as I am concerned. I also wish that I could record a series and have it end 1 minute less. My wife records Desperate Housewives at 9PM but it is scheduled to end at 10:01 so it conflicts with two 10PM recordings. As far as I know the only way to handle it is with a manual recording, but I have to do each week individually.


Negative Padding....

I am guessing that those other two recordings are not on ABC?


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## psychobabbler (Sep 16, 2006)

I replied that I like my HR20-700 better. I still use my Tivo on an SD TV where I work out, so I still use it some. However, and this may be because I use the HR20 more, but I like the overall interface a lot better than the Tivo. Every time I use my Tivo, I think, gosh, I can't believe that this is often considered the gold standard of DVRs. Just my opinion, but I think that as a DVR (minus the autorecord for keyword problem, coupled with CIR) it tops the Tivo.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

What I really want is the speed & ease of recording (1 push record, 2 push series record) of the HR20 BUT I also want DLB and MRV. In addition, I also want the esata interface to be a true storage add-on, not a replacement of the internal drive.

Adding up all the pros and cons of every day use, the HR20 wins - but it can still be greatly improved.


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## Eich (Jan 9, 2007)

If the HR20 could record Series Links / Season passes as reliably as the HR10 did, I would probably prefer the HR20.

I switched from the HR10 to the HR20 this August. I've gotten used to the menu and terminology changes with no problems. But the HR20's remote isn't as responsive, it's ffw/rew are choppy and it's ability to record a series is terribly inconsistent. 

We've already missed episodes of Heros, Cane and Kitchen Nightmares since the new season has began - all with a terribly uninformative message in the history.

I want to like the HR20. Right now, I hate it and feel that I can't trust it to record what I want to watch.


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## coacho (Aug 21, 2007)

I just wish many would " quit living with and woefully accepting" technology for which we have very little choice. I am afraid the next generation that we all would like to have will be much slower in coming. 

I want to vote for the HR 1000; I think I saw it in Terminator 2 or maybe that was the T 1000. Anyway it was an upgrade to the original.


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## Blaaamo (Nov 14, 2006)

Yes, the HR20 has some great new features, but for the longest time those features were like lipstick on pig. Only very recently has my HR20-700 gotten to the point where, maybe???, I can really rely on it's basic DVR functionality working. I also realize that not everyone had as many reliability issues as some of us had.

I believe that we all would be better of if D* and Tivo had worked together to create a better DVR. I, just this week, replaced my HR10-250 with a HR20 because I wanted the new mpeg 4 channels on my other TV. Had that capability been available on my HR10 I would have kept it. Though I have those new channels, I have actually taken a step back: last night on my new HR20-100 I got a automatic keep/delete bug. I haven't seen that bug in a couple months on my 700 (likely because it has newer software).

Basic functionality is the key. If I can't count on a scheduled recording being there the next morning and being able to reliably navigate through/around it, all the extra features really don't matter that much.


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## SFNSXguy (Apr 17, 2006)

The HR10-250 is SO much nicer to use!!!!

Only advantages the HR20-100 has is quieter and lower temp. The HR20-700 has no advantages.


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## sshams95 (Sep 2, 2006)

Tough call for me...I voted HR20. IMHO, the HR20's software is clearly superior and it's much quicker....I just wish it had DLB...and it would be a perfect machine. But I cannot argue with the functionality of the HR20, it really is a better receiver. So I asked myself if the HR10 gets Mpeg4, would I switch back? Answer is no, even though I would get DLB. But it's not interactive, no PIG, slower interace, etc.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

alwayscool said:


> P.S The HR10-250 has all this and more, but not Media Share.


really? ethernet works? how? plugged a cable into the stock box and it never saw my network. Wanted to upgrade the size of the drive, but could not find a esata port on the hr10, where is it?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I said no. I see the HR20 getting more and more features added to it in the future vs. the HR10-250 and I never used things like the Wishlist feature or Tivo sugguestions.

I voted as a former HR10-250 owner.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

This poll is specifically for HR10 owners NOT HR20 owners.

It should be in the *DirecTV™ powered by Tivo DVR Support Q&A* thread.

This poll does not care if the person has ever had or even seen an HR20 to compare it to.

It has nothing to do with the HR20 owners forums. It makes no sense to post a poll in the HR20 user area and ask that only HR10 users respond.

Please move this poll to the correct forum. One advantage for the poll is that the Moved link will still be here and it will be also in the area for HR10 users.

- Craig


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

I voted for TIVO, only because I need *DLB*.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

I am surprised no one has mention this. I voted no. Based on the features, I am a don't care. But HR20 let me do CE. This is a big one for me.

I also hate the phone line requirement for software update for HR10.

Does HR10 support RF remote? I didn't use it. Not sure if it is supported. But I love the HR20 RF remote. What about eSATA? Much less hassle for expansion IMHO.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

The TiVo to HR20 Users Survival Guide gives these advantages of the HR20 over TiVo:

_Please note that some of these features have appeared in previous TiVo branded DVR's or as hacks._

*40 HD Channels *today & capacity for 150 MPEG4 national HD Channels in 2008

*HD Local Channels *- MPEG4 in many markets.

*eSATA External Drive *- lets you add an external hard drive giving you even more recording time.

*MPEG4* - Compression nearly doubles the amount of HD programming you can save.

*Quicker Response*- no more of TiVo's constant "Please Wait" messages

*Quick Record *- Press *®*RECORD. Done!

*Quick Series Link *- Press *®*RECORD twice to set up a Season Pass! Done!

*Faster Fast Forward *- 5, 12, 20, or 90 times faster than normal play speed! Plus Skip to Tick at 300 times!

*Hard Drive Usage Meter (%) *- in My Playlist shows how much space you have left.

*More Video Output Options - All outputs are available at the same time!*

*Better Conflict Resolution *- If you record a 3rd show at one time, choose to delete either previous or new requests!

*Better Parental Controls *- MA Titles & Description can be blocked as well as normal program locks & limits

*Soft Buffering *- Extend a first show a few minutes longer and start next show a few minutes early-on two channels.

New Remote Control Capabilities

*ACTIVE* - Access the Active™ Channel - local weather and more!

*BACK* - Takes you to the screen you visited previously

●RED - Jumps 12 hours back, ● GREEN - Jumps 12 hours forward in Guide

● YELLOW - fullscreen TV, cycles through alternate audio tracks; other functions vary - look for onscreen hints

*RF Remote Option *- lets you control the HR20 when it is behind a cabinet door or in another room

*Control Two HR20's *- Control two HR20's from one HR20 Remote!

*Watch One HR20 in Multiple Rooms *- Use a second RF remote & the multiple video outputs!

New Playback Controls

SKIP - *Skip to Tick *- Press & hold Fast Forward to go to next tick (usually 15 or 30 minutes). Press & hold REW to go back.

*END* - Press and hold ►| for 3 seconds to jump to end of program (or next bookmark if set)

*BEGIN* - Press and hold REPLAY for 3 seconds to jump to the beginning of the program (or previous bookmark if set)

*Bookmarks* - Bookmark a great play or a funny line to jump back to later.

*Mini Guide* - Press the ● BLUE button to see what is on other channels while still watching full screen

*Picture In List* - Keep watching your show while you check the Guide or My Playlist (Now Showing)

*Play MP3's* - Play MP3's and see photos from your ViiV capable PC (and others) through your HR20

*DIRECTV On Demand* offers hundreds of additional programs

*No Phone *has to be connected except for Pay Per Views

*Caller ID *- Caller ID onscreen pop-up option - Press MENU then click Calls & Msgs à Edit Settings à Caller ID

*Better Pay Per View Billing *- Pay when you PLAY a show not When you Record a show!

- Craig


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

Originally, I dreaded moving away from the HR10-250 but now I prefer the HR20 BY FAR. (We still use an HR10 in one room.)

For our day-to-day usage, the HR20 is a far better machine for us. I'd be more than happy to retire our other HR10.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> This poll is specifically for HR10 owners NOT HR20 owners.
> 
> It should be in the *DirecTV™ powered by Tivo DVR Support Q&A* thread.
> 
> ...


Milo, if I read the poll correctly, it is asking you to choose between the HR10 and the HR20 if the HR10 had MPEG4. So it assumes you have used both the HR10 and the HR20. If they had never seen an HR20, how could they reasonably vote on this poll?

Moving on....I think it makes no sense to compare a box that was released over 3 years ago to the one that has been out barely a year. A lot of the things in your list of "advantages" (which can be debatable) are available on the new Tivo Series 3 and HD models (plus many more value-add features), which unfortunately are only available to cable users.

I think it was a HORRIBLE shame when Murdoch decided DTV should go with one of his other investments for their DVR, and decided not to pursue an even better HD box with Tivo.

With Tivo, you have a lot of options for customizing your box, and the future of broadband content is unlimited. With DTV, you are now stuck with their not always reliable new box, and access to only what they want you to have access to...no more.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

It will be a cold day . . . if ever - Before you hear the words, "I HR20'd that so I can watch it later tonight."
That ship has sailed.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jjohns said:


> It will be a cold day . . . if ever - Before you hear the words, "I HR20'd that so I can watch it later tonight."
> That ship has sailed.


So everyone was saying "I DSR704ed it last night, so I can watch it later?"
or
"I HR10-250ed it last night, so I can watch it later?"

Or why isn't it "I recorded it, so I can watch it later"

Where "TiVo" the name, has become a term that refers to a "technology", rather then the product... Klenex, RollerBlade, Xerox, Band-Aid


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

That didn't take long.
Oooh. So thin-skinned . . .


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

jjohns said:


> It will be a cold day . . . if ever - Before you hear the words, "I HR20'd that so I can watch it later tonight."
> That ship has sailed.


But it doesn't mean Xerox is still the preferred copy machine, or you use Kodak films to capture your Kodak moment.

To be fair, Xerox and Kodak have their glory days. Tivo never made money.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

You are all talking about machines that do something.


Your DVR is more than just a machine that records. You have to factor in the entire user experience and satisfaction. For the 1st generation people on this board who have lived and breathed the HR-20 over the last year+, you feel a sense of ownership with it. 

That feeling has existed with the Tivo DVRs for years. 

Its of course all personal preference...like the PC and Microsoft's Windows verse Apple and whatever it calls its operating system today. 

So while a number of people on here are very passionate (understandably) about the HR-20, there are still plenty of people who are equally, if not more so, passionate about Tivo.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

kmill14 said:


> You are all talking about machines that do something.
> 
> Your DVR is more than just a machine that records. You have to factor in the entire user experience and satisfaction. For the 1st generation people on this board who have lived and breathed the HR-20 over the last year+, you feel a sense of ownership with it.
> 
> ...


I will respectfully disagree with that. I don't have a sense of ownership of my HR20's but I do with my HR10's and SD Tivos. I own my Tivos. I lease my HR20's. 

I have lower loyalty to DirecTV than to Tivo. But the craving for affordable HD contents trumps everything else. I switched to DirecTV because of Tivo. I switched to HR20 because of MPEG4. I am just glad HR20 was not as bad as I expected it to be a year ago. Personally, I don't think comparing HR10 to HR20 is fair. HR20 wins. I will vote differently when comparing S3 to HR20.

I love Tivos. But Tivo will not last if FCC continues to be soft. It's silly and wasteful and degrading to cascade two STBs. DirecTivo charmed me for it was the only integrated such machine in those days. Tivo can only survive in the long run if FCC gets tough on enforcing cable card regulation. It is conceivalbe that someone can lobby or sue for the regulation to be extended to satellite. But I don't have to wait for that day. When things get better, FIOS+S3 is a good enough alternative for me.


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## mikehoff99 (Jan 24, 2006)

I Have A Hr10-250 + Hr20-700 Both In Living Room, I Hated The Hr20 With A Passion, But Find Myself More+more Clicking Over To The Hr20 More And More.
I Still Love My Hr10, But It Will Be Moved To A Sd Tv In Bedroom And Another Hr20 Will Be Installed Tomorrow Morning Along Side Of The Other Hr20.


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean an updated TIVO with MPEG4 like a S3? That would worked with D*. Something that came out about the same time as the HR20? You know that the HR10 is a little old but, still works.

....you know which why I would go. No DLB or even SLB on the HR20. No pause point that works. SO HR10 all the way!

When I bought the HR10 I knew that the HR20 was around the bend. I told him that I wanted to upgrade to the new DVR. They told me no problem but, after it came out I wait a bit.
Now a year later I'm still going to wait. I would like to wait until I don't see any more *missed recording/problems* thread... Every day you see at least one pop up. So I wait.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I have two HR10-250s and two HR20-700s. I prefer the HR20-700s.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

Right now I go with the Tivo only becasue it does not miss recordings. I have no idea how it was in it's early days like the HR20 is now. If the HR20 was recording all the shows i set it to I would pick it hands down over the Tivo. My main concern for any DVR is will it record what I tell it to. So far the HR20 fails at doing that and the Tivo passes with flying colors. Now is you ask would I pick the R15 vs the SD Tivo I pick the R15. It records what I ask it to and has many more features.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I didn't vote because I didn't own a 10-250....but if my T60 had a bigger drive and could handle the HD stuff I'd take that.

I'm very, very surprised at the results so far.


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## redram38 (Dec 7, 2005)

Ken S said:


> I didn't vote because I didn't own a 10-250....but if my T60 had a bigger drive and could handle the HD stuff I'd take that.
> 
> I'm very, very surprised at the results so far.


When this poll started I think the HR20 started out way ahead. I think the HR10 caught up and passed it due to all the trouble with the missed recordings. Fix this and I think the HR20 wins 10 to 1 over the Tivo


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> I didn't vote because I didn't own a 10-250....but if my T60 had a bigger drive and could handle the HD stuff I'd take that.
> 
> I'm very, very surprised at the results so far.


I'm not...

But that is also because I can see who voted (being a mod has it's privileges).
It is amazing... how people can vote in a poll... asking a quesiton to those that owned both... but for a lot of people that voted (on both sides), didn't own one of the devices... and some... neither... at least based on their profiles, and their postings..


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I'm not...
> 
> But that is also because I can see who voted (being a mod has it's privileges).
> It is amazing... how people can vote in a poll... asking a quesiton to those that owned both... but for a lot of people that voted (on both sides), didn't own one of the devices... and some... neither... at least based on their profiles, and their postings..


aww c'mon Earl...people lie in polls? No way!

When I was with AOL we used to poll people on why they used the service. Almost invariably it would come back with "Education Channel", "Homework Helper for my Kids", etc.

We'd then trace their accounts...and boom 95% of their time was in the chat rooms


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## johnr9e (Nov 27, 2006)

I voted HR10 but I would like to have voted HR20. I like the UI and the UI responsiveness of the HR20, but some of its shortcomings are problems in my household. a) We're at the 50 series link limit. I can open slots by deleting the various (mostly cable) series on hiatus, but that's a real pain. b) Also, while I don't miss DLB that much, my wife complains about it all the time.  Actually, I would have voted HR20 if it wasn't for all the spousal abuse I receive due to lack of DLB and some lockups that resulted in missed recordings of a couple of her shows in the last couple weeks.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

I can only speak for myself but I bet there were a lot of who were in the HR20 forum and took a poll that asked this question:

If the HR10-250 TIVO had MPEG4 HD would you prefer it to the HR20-700?

So we answered.

If that question were posed in the TiVo forum, I would not have answered. But it was posed to HR20 owners.

I wonder how many others were tricked by an HR10 only question in the HR20 forum.

On the other hand, the opening post makes it clear that this poll was for HR10 users whether they had actually ever seen the HR20 or not. People who had never used an HR20 could and should answer this poll. It is for them..

So you are going to get HR10 only and HR20 only users answering the poll question or the opposite question in the text itself.

Its a shame that neither the Poll or the OP asked:

_*For users of both the HR10 & HR20*: If the HR10-250 TIVO had MPEG4 HD would you prefer it to the HR20-700? _

That would have been the relevant question.

- Craig


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

I'd have both, but I'd prefer the TiVo.

Upside of HR20: 
1) Better picture. The HR10's image is too soft.
2) working Ethernet, even if not fully usuable
3) eSata

Upside of HR10: 
1) I have 750GB and InstantCake. I can fix it if it breaks.
2) Third-party support
3) The interface is way cleaner and makes more sense (explain again how you set recording defaults on the HR20, or why the prioritizer is down under help & settings). I can navigate the HR10's main menus with my eyes shut. 
4) The remote. Don't get me started on the HR20 remote.
5) Reliability in general.
6) TiVo is cooler.

Neutral: The HR20 gets frequent updates. Blessing or curse, you decide.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Its a shame that neither the Poll or the OP asked:
> 
> _*For users of both the HR10 & HR20*: If the HR10-250 TIVO had MPEG4 HD would you prefer it to the HR20-700? _


And asked it in the general D* section. Point well taken. What this poll is measuring is satisfaction/dissatisfaction with the HR20, as most here have one, but not necessarily the HR10. So it's the HR20 vs "player to be named later" in a lot of cases.

The HR20 seems to be mildly losing. Then again, some people only show when they've got an issue....


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## Rominalmcse (Oct 6, 2006)

I would much rather have the Tivo unit. Better interface, I still have problems trying to figure out where to go on the HR20. But the best feature of Tivo was suggestions. I know I get flamed when I have mentioned it in the past, but I think of it this way, It watches hundreds of channnels so I don't have to. There are so many shows I would have never seen if Tivo did not suggest them for me. I have the HR20 on the HDTV but DirecTivo's on the rest of the house so I find myself looking at the suggestions on the other tv's to see if I would like the shows. Plus, the HR20 is still buggy. some recording just won't play and why do I have RBR every now and then? I have the HR20 because I was forced too not because I want to.


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## coacho (Aug 21, 2007)

Interesting; Earl posted all the reasons he likes the HR20 (all seem valid) and Milo posted all the things that make the HR20 better (also valid) . Then Tivo moves ahead and Earl says it was the people who voted....

The people spoke and the HR20 is no TIVO! We need someone like Apple to come out with an ITivo, there definetly is a market for an improved DVR.


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## vurbano (May 15, 2004)

IMO the HDtivo was a porsche compared to the Fred Flinstonemobile HR20. Yes dual live buffers and a real 30 second skip make that much difference


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

coacho said:


> Interesting; Earl posted all the reasons he likes the HR20 (all seem valid) and Milo posted all the things that make the HR20 better (also valid) . Then Tivo moves ahead and Earl says it was the people who voted....
> 
> The people spoke and the HR20 is no TIVO! We need someone like Apple to come out with an ITivo, there definetly is a market for an improved DVR.


Apple? The interface would get better no doubt. But, we'd only be able to record Pixar movies and it would cost $2,500.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

kcmurphy88 said:


> 3) The interface is way cleaner and makes more sense (explain again how you set recording defaults on the HR20, or why the prioritizer is down under help & settings). I can navigate the HR10's main menus with my eyes shut.


At least the HR20 *has* a recording default option, the HR10 does not. Yea it's buried but at least it's there. 

Prioritizer - List | Yellow and choose prioritizer is the quick shortcut. And the season pass manager is pretty buried on the Tivo as well, just as many clicks using the menus, once you know where it's at it's no big deal. It's just learning a new UI is all.

After time you'll also be able to surf the HR20 menu's with your eyes closed. I've had it a year and I can. I find myself trying to remember where things are in the Tivo menu. No different then when you upgrade from Windows 98 to XP, things are in different places and you just need to get used to it.

Anyway....back to the thread.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> And asked it in the general D* section. Point well taken. What this poll is measuring is satisfaction/dissatisfaction with the HR20, as most here have one, but not necessarily the HR10. So it's the HR20 vs "player to be named later" in a lot of cases.
> 
> The HR20 seems to be mildly losing. Then again, some people only show when they've got an issue....


KC,

You are completely correct. Hindsight is 20/20 but this is a General forum question.

Also, users of the DIRECTiVo's had painfully slow User Interfaces. To really make it fair, you should compare the HR20 to be the _best_ that TiVo had to offer.

Again, hindsight is 20/20 but I wish the question were:

*For users of both TiVo & HR20: Would you prefer an MEPG4 TiVo to a completed HR20-700? *

That way you are comparing the best of what TiVo could be like a Sony SAT-T60.

Since you are comparing what TiVo could be, you should allow the HR20 to be what it could be as well.

We should compare MPEG4 TiVo to the HR20 if the HR20 could do what the manual said:

*HR20 Missing Promised Features* 
----------------------------------------------------------
1 *CIR* "Display only the channels that are in your current subscription package" - manual p. 33 
2 Apply Current/*Favorite Channels as a filter* to Search for "just what you want to watch" p. 31
3 *Title Search Autorecord* - pp. 20 & 31 & release notes for 0x115, 0x119, & 0x11b
4 *The ability to edit "all the programs" in the Prioritizer* (even when there are no upcoming episodes) p. 28.
5 "Select the Scan for Channels button to have the receiver *scan local off-air* frequencies" p. 78
6 Enable Setup>Display>Screen Centering per p. 28
7 "in 2007...home videos on their TVs directly from Intel® Viiv™ [PCs]" - 2006 Annual Report p. 9.
8 ...in [the] summer...deliver video from websites onto your TV or your PC. 5/9/07 Conference
9 *MRV Multiroom Viewing* ...set-top boxes that feeds multiple TVs...a set-top box that integrates multiple devices 5/9/07 Conference

Details...

Channels I Receive (CIR) Bug
The CIR work does not pull development hours because it is yet another group who is working on CIR. But fixing the CIR bug does not address the fact that the Favorite Channels filters do not work in Searches:

Prioritizer Bug
Since there is a back-door trick that works in some cases, it has been argued that this is just a quirk in the prioritizer interface.

Screen Centering
The new H21 has this feature. DIRECTV is going to a consistent user interface across all receivers.
----------------------------------------------------------
If you are going to compare a make-believe TiVo, you should compare it to a make-believe HR20 as well. 

- Craig


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## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> I'd have both, but I'd prefer the TiVo.
> 
> Upside of HR20:
> 1) Better picture. The HR10's image is too soft.
> ...


Any DVR should at least do number five. With all the updates and tester, how does it go so wrong?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

coacho said:


> Interesting; Earl posted all the reasons he likes the HR20 (all seem valid) and Milo posted all the things that make the HR20 better (also valid) . Then Tivo moves ahead and Earl says it was the people who voted....
> 
> The people spoke and the HR20 is no TIVO! We need someone like Apple to come out with an ITivo, there definetly is a market for an improved DVR.


When I posted... there was ZERO votes yet... i posted before the poll was even there.

So yes... as the day went on... and more people voted... 
So was I supposed to "predict" that people would vote the way they did before the votes took place?

Or should I have scratched the poll and made PUBLIC instead of anonymous...
But to each their own.

But hey... there is always a conspiracy factor in every poll.

And it is not just those for the TiVo... but also those for the HR20... 
Neither is "perfect"...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

So... let's ask the other HR20 users (given that there where just barely over 200k HR10-250 users at it high point).

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

I had the HR10-250 before the HR20-100 and I've also had the Dish Network 622 DVR and one cable DVR (in different houses). The HR10-250 was, to me, the worst DVR I've ever used! The HR20 beats it by miles. For the way I use it, the HR10-250 was almost unusable it was so slow. I like to look at multiple channels on the guide so I mostly used the non-Tivo guide and it was so slow on the HR10-250 that I could read the guide faster than it could fill! And worse, fooling with anything at all on the season passes on the HR10-250, especially adding, deleting passes, or reprioritizing would literally take 20 minutes if you just wanted to delete one season pass. That was a show stopper for me. I was cursing at that thing 80% of the time and that's one of the reasons I switched to Dish before I came back to DirecTV recently. I'll take the HR20 any day over the painfully slow HR10-250! There's just no reason for a modern DVR to have to sit and play with itself for 20 minutes just for deleting a single season pass. :nono: Now that I have the HR20, it's goodbye Tivo, and don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

Mike


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## erhan (Aug 28, 2007)

This is not really a fair poll. HR10 was left to die by DTV. It hardly had any new features added, while the standard TiVo software kept becoming better and better, which was already good to start with. 

So, this is like asking would you rather stay with Windows 95 if it had 1TB storage. And my answer is no, because I need the features that exists in modern DVRs. 

But, if you are asking purely from a practical standpoint where if the current HR10 with the current crippled 6.3 software (TTG and MRV disabled) had the MPEG4, I still would think about it. My only motivation to move to HR20 was the new HD channels. I'm actually fairly happy with my decision, as HR20 feature set is currently superior to HR10's 6.3, but definitely not compared to Tivo S3.

A better poll would be to ask: HR20 or an S3 HDTivo.


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## CliffV (Jan 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So... let's ask the other HR20 users (given that there where just barely over 200k HR10-250 users at it high point).
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103188


I voted HR20 on this thread because the HR10-250 was just too slow. I assume a modern HD TIVO would be much better 

I voted Tivo on Earl's thread because TIVO's UI ease of use and consistency is much better for me. Of course, it is easy to pick a hypothetical box over one that has gone through all the tradeoffs needed to get a product to market.


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## VLaslow (Aug 16, 2006)

HR-20 as I discussed in the "other" poll


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## mightythor88 (Sep 22, 2007)

I have both the hd tivo (living room) and the dtv hddvr (bedroom). I only got the hr20 for the new hd channels. If the hdtivo had mpeg4 & the potential for DoD I would rather stick w. tivo, but I have been using tivo for 5yrs and I have only had the dvr for about 6months so my muscle memory is trained to be tivo biased. I love the dual live buffers and have a system for watching the NFL.

I will say though now that I actually watch the hr20 more and more for the new HD channels and the DoD over the last 2 weeks, it is starting to grow on me. 

I, probably naively, still hold out hope that tivo and dtv will get back together and create a new tivo based box in 2008.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I voted for the HR20. I just never "fell in love w/ the TIVO" like many others have. The HR20 has more features and is much faster as well as the other points in favor of the HR20 that have been already pointed out.


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## thebarge (Aug 28, 2006)

I've got an upgrade scheduled for Tuesday to replace my HR10-250 for the HR20. I've still got 3 other Tivo units in various rooms of my house, so it should be interesting to see what my wife thinks when the HR20 is on our main TV replacing the HR10. I've been a Tivo user for 8 years, so I'm really worried about how painful of a move this is going to be. But, due to poor OTA HD in my area and the announcement of all the new HD channels debuting by the end of the month, I just can't wait any longer.

My biggest worry is the posts I've read about relating to the missed recordings. How hard could it be to record a show once a week? If my HR10 could do mpeg4 and get all the new channels I'd stick with it, but I've finally given up and I'll be moving on in two days (assuming the installer shows up on time unlike when I had the HR10 installed). BTW, I'm still keeping the HR10 just in case


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

I used to have an UltimateTv years ago and I really miss the PIP. The best box for me would be a mpeg4 box with TIVO and PIP.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

*D* are you listening to your customers?*


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## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

Would be 100% if it had DLBs and wish lists


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## mnbulldog (Aug 25, 2006)

HR-20 for me ... hands down. Other than DLB.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

*D* are you listening?*


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## Spoonie (Nov 14, 2006)

I have 0 experience with the HR20 but I've had a 10-250 since 2004 and I can tell you that the 10-250 sucks. But from what I've been reading about the HR20, that unit sucks balls also. The Hr20 doesn't have DLB's and a 30second skip. That is enough for me to stay away from it. The 10-250 has both features that I just mentioned but the rest of the unit is horrible. I'm not even going to waste my time listing all of the faults of the 10-250 but I'll say this; the ultimate TV that I had in 1999 was a much better unit than my 10-250. The ultimate TV was thought out more thoroughly, was faster, and didn’t take you away from what you are watching if you want to setup a recording or whatever. In 10 years they've made DVRs worse not better. I find it hard to believe that D* and all the other providers cannot design a decent DVR. I can design a better unit than what is out there now.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Bring back TIVO! Dual live buffers, suggestions, and a DVR that is reliable.


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## Runch Machine (Nov 20, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> No..... Here's why:
> 
> 1) After using the DirecTV GUI for 2 years now... I absolutely can not stand having to constantly go to a FULL SCREEN menu to access most menu, and the Picture in Guide... is icing on the cake
> 
> ...


I used to be a Tivo fanatic. I conviced over a dozen friends and family members to switch to DirecTV and get a DirecTivo. My brother and sister even bought me Mr. Tivo license plates for my 50 Birthday.

I hate to say this but I now prefer the HR20 for all the reasons stated above.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

Frankly I find the whole topic goofy. The HR10 is a dead platform with no on going investment or any way to make it compatible with the MPEG4 streams, the HR2X is the active platform and the only platform you can get that supports the new content. I too wish they would of continued to improve on and build upon a solid working platform, but I think it is a good exercise to discuss the flaws the HR2X based on the HR10 as the predecessor platform, because IMO D* laid a big stinker with the HR2X. Maybe the new TiVo platform vs the HR20 would be a better debate or if this new USB PC interfaces come in can we roll our own DVR that is better than the HR2x. Sure the HR10 SD DTiVos were slow at times but it worked well and was no where as bug riddled as the HR2X platform, all this angst is because D* put out a technically and functionally deficient platform. you can try to put lip stick on the pig but it still a pig not a prom queen. Oh yes and just to be proactive I know that glennb has never had a problem with his hr2x.


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

I was a big TIVO fan but after using a HR20-700 I would keep the HR20-700 heres why. DOD, Remote booking PIG and the clincher is the 90 min buffer.


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

The poll results crack me up. Even with MPEG4 the HR10 is way behind the HR20/HR21 in terms of usability.


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

alwayscool said:


> *D* are you listening?*


To bad we could not have a requisite for the poll that you actually had to own both units to vote.


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## Runch Machine (Nov 20, 2005)

erhan said:


> This is not really a fair poll. HR10 was left to die by DTV. It hardly had any new features added, while the standard TiVo software kept becoming better and better, which was already good to start with.
> 
> So, this is like asking would you rather stay with Windows 95 if it had 1TB storage. And my answer is no, because I need the features that exists in modern DVRs.
> 
> ...


I have both the HR20 and Tivo Series 3. The HD-Tivo is in the bed room with only a TV antenna for signal and the HR20 is in the family room. Most of what I watch comes from the 4 major networks. I like the HR20 better because of being able to look at the system while watching TV. I can use the guide, see what's coming up in the To Do list etc. I also like having Caller ID and % of disk usage. These are things "we" have been asking Tivo for for years. I got a Sony DirecTivo in 2001 and it changed my life! I still think the Tivo interface is great. I just like the few extra functions in the HR20. I definately like the peanut remote a lot better then the Directv remote.

I wish Directv came out with a peanut remote. That is the one thing I really miss.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Talk about digging up a 6 month dead thread back from the dead. :eek2:


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## 94SupraTT (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> No..... Here's why:
> 
> 3) I find the scheduling performace speed, fantastic. I can adjust my prioritizer, and not have to wait 5/10/15/30 minutes (yes in the past I walked away, because it was taking so long), for it to come on. Then add in the single button records, without confirmation screens... to quickly set things up
> 
> ...


I doubt that a HR10-250 with a mpeg4 encoder would ever be made. Now a NEW DirecTivo with a mpeg4 encoder and comparable hardware to the HR2x would make up the performance difference between the HR10-250 and the HR2x. One should expect the HR2x to be faster its only what 4 years newer now? Also having one huge buffer which doesn't get nearly as much use are 2 dual live buffers is a moot point. The main thing I like about the HR2x are the speed and the new features (DOD, mediashare and remote booking) the most important of those to me is speed. Like I said however a new DirecTivo would have newer hardware and of course be faster.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

alwayscool said:


> *D* are you listening to your customers?*


For what? Of course if you ask a current D* Tivo user if his box can have the new MPEG4 HD's he would said YES! The fact almost 50% said otherwsie is a serious blow to Tivo.

If anything if I were D* I would be happy based on the poll and the discussion, would have no problem ditching Tivo all together. The HR2x's stands stronge against Tivo.

A fair question for the D* HD Tivo users should be, would you want to upgrade to an HR21 for free to get the new HD's, or go to cable and buy your own Tivo S3 and use cable cards for the HD's your cable offers?


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

jal said:


> Bring back TIVO! Dual live buffers, suggestions, and a DVR that is reliable.


Dual Live buffers = who cares on a scale of 1 to 10 it ranks about a 2

And I have a DVR that is way more reliable then the HR10 was, can couunt on one hand the number of times the HR2X has spontaneously rebooted in the last year, where as there are not enough appendages to say the same thing for teh HR10 boxes I had.

Thank Goid and Greyhound the Tivo is gone


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## MIMOTech (Sep 11, 2006)

Only feature I miss from the tivo is the tivo program guide. It made it a snap to look for programs on a particular channel in a short amount of time. Other then that the overall performance is better.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

alwayscool said:


> If anyone knows someone who could make the HR10-250 mpeg4 compatible please PM me and let me know. I'd be willing to sacrafice one of mine for this experiment.


If anyone knows someone who could make my 20 year old TV into a plasma HDTV please PM me and let me know. I'd be willing to scarafice one of mine for the experiment.

I bet we'll both get the same number of PMs from people reading this thread.
:lol:


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## DMG (Feb 7, 2008)

After having the HR21 for a month and a half I have to say that the UI is better than I expected but certainly less intuitive than the TiVo was IMHO.

However on many counts the HD TiVo was far superior as a DVR. In 3 years I did not have as many reboot problems with the TiVo that I already have had with the HR21. I've already been forced to reboot the HR21 at least 4 times because the remote stopped working or worked in slow motion or the video froze during fast forward. Reliability is at the top of my list of features for a DVR and unfortunately the HR21 isn't there yet. I'm hopeful that will change for the better, and soon.

I hear that DirecTV is designing a new remote and I really hope that is true and that they have learned some lessons from the mistakes of the current remote. The TiVo remote was a great remote for a DVR. I've been searching for as good a replacement for the HR21 and have had moderate success. I think the design of the current remote makes clear how DTV fails to understand how a DVR is used. The PAUSE button is extremely hard to find by feel and to me, that is one of the most important buttons on a DVR remote. TiVo really understood this aspect of the UI.

I really miss the DLB and Wishlists. And it drives me crazy that when I search I don't get just the channels I receive or the ones I've marked that I'm interested in.

One additional point is that it is really unreasonable and unfair to compare the HR21 with the HR10-250 in terms of features. Clearly DirecTV didn't want newer TiVo features to migrate to the HR10. Many of the features that people are saying they like about the HR2x are features that have been in recent TiVo releases on the stand-alone TiVos. If DirecTV had the same agenda for providing features while working with TiVo I think the story would be much different.

One feature that the current stand-alone TiVo software does not have is the PIP box while browsing the UI. (At least not last I saw.) Many times I like that but one time I DO NOT is during sporting events. I really wish there was a way to bring up the UI without the PIP with a key press so that I could do so when I want. With the TiVo, before I turned on my TV, I would hit the TiVo button and be sure that I would not ruin my time shifted viewing of a game already in progress.

By the way, I LOVE the fact that it is 2 clicks to turn on and off closed captioning on the latest HR2x software!

Lest you think I'm a basher, I just bought a second HR21 so obviously I'm not completely unhappy. But I did so for the HD content, not the quality of the DVR. No question that the MPEG-4 switch over is a good thing long term and I need an HR2x to watch it. However, DirecTV has quite a ways to go with the HR2x before I can say that I'm really happy with the HR21 as a DVR.


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## ulbonado (Nov 29, 2007)

The HR21 is basically feature-comparable with Tivo, but they need to FIX THE &*^!*% BUGS!!!

If it weren't so flaky and slow I wouldn't miss the Tivo too badly any more.


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## nc88keyz (Aug 12, 2007)

lets not forget directv will be getting a new "skin" or gui makeover in early 2009. We will have MVR before then , you will all be happy. 

Yes , i miss tivo too but i dont think they are going back....however I would pay 5 bucks more a month to have tivo OS formated HR20s 

If comcast can do it , directv can definately do it. 

All these dvrs run on linux anyways. easy enough.


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## mjbvideo (Jan 15, 2006)

While I love the features in my HR21-100, I would instantly give them up for the reliability of my old Tivo box. HR2x is a major piece of junk because of its high failure rate. I consider any RBR, blank recordings, choppy video, etc. a failure.


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## drewba (Sep 18, 2007)

nc88keyz said:


> lets not forget directv will be getting a new "skin" or gui makeover in early 2009.


I haven't been able to find any information on this makeover. Do you have any additional information or links that you could share?

Thanks


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

nc88keyz said:


> ... I would pay 5 bucks more a month to have tivo OS formated HR20s ....


 At one time the HR10 was as reliable as reliable could be (you look up "reliable" in Webster's dictionary and there was a picture of the HR10-250). But since 6.3, in my experience at least, my two HR10s are now possibly less-reliable than my HR20.

The HR2x started out as a dog (I had one for a week when they first came out -- by accident, I was supposed to get a HR10 replacement but instead got the first HR20 Ironwood had ever seen) and it was all I could do to keep from hurling it like a discus off my balcony.

But between then and last December (15 months later when I finally relented and got one permanently) it got remarkably better, which never could have been predicted if the history of DVR development since 1998 is any clue (good DVRs got marginially better over time, bad DVRs got marginally better over time, but nothing really improved all that much at all).

You really have to tip your hat to how much-improved the current HR2x is over the first versions. Maybe not a Tivo-killer, but damned close. Of course it actually is technically a Tivo-killer if you look at the numbers today and where they will be in another year, but much of that has nothing to do with how great or how weak either platform might be.

$5? That's too high a premium for a MPEG-4 DTivo. If the current or "future" HR10 could perform like the 3.1.5f HR10 used to in 2005, then maybe. About my only gripe with the HR2x is slo-mo, which is a complete embarrassment and a complete failure.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

nc88keyz said:


> lets not forget directv will be getting a new "skin" or gui makeover in early 2009. We will have MVR before then , you will all be happy.
> 
> Yes , i miss tivo too but i dont think they are going back....however I would pay 5 bucks more a month to have tivo OS formated HR20s
> 
> ...


Ah, I guess you haven't heard whats been going on with Tivo and them getting there software inside cable dvrs.. They are having huge problems and delays, and it is very unstable and causing all kinds of issues... Its worse than the HR20 ever was the day they hit the market 2 years ago... I for one am extremely thankful that Directv left tivo and went there own way. We are better off without them.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

drewba said:


> I haven't been able to find any information on this makeover. Do you have any additional information or links that you could share?
> 
> Thanks


That has been mentioned before, but I don't think its to be expected right inside of 2009... I think it will be a little while longer than that.


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## Runch Machine (Nov 20, 2005)

I was a big fan of Tivo but have had the HR20 for about 9 months. I find it to be 100% reliable. At this point if you have a Directv DVR that is not reliable, I'd consider it defective and have them send out a replacement.


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## Buddy (Aug 16, 2004)

I've had the HR20 for over a year and half and I still hate it. If it weren't required for access to full HD lineup I wouldn't have ever gotten one. Had D* kept with TiVo (and kept improving it) I'd have been much happier. I'll just summarize the deficiencies of the HR20.

1. DLB - much talked about and the fact that D* doesn't do it after much complaing is even more annoying

2. 30 second slip - Are you kidding me? I WANT TO SKIP, not watch 30 seconds of garbage in 3 seconds. 

These first two items are enough for me to throw this thing in the garbage.

3. 3 second delay to slow-motion play - seriously, it takes 3 seconds for slow motion to start, so I have to guess three seconds ahead of time when I want slow motion play to start. Completely brain dead implementation.

4. eSata - yet another brain dead implementation (YABDI), it doesn't add to your capacity it completely replaces it so now I have a completely unused 300GB of storage space, maybe I can rent it out to some third world TV viewer.

5. Networking - YABDI, why is networking such a taboo with D*? Several years ago I had two ReplayTVs that would allow me to watch shows one one DVR that were stored on the other. This is such a no brainer feature it's ridiculous. These DVRs are just PCs (running Linux) and there is no reason not to have full networking capability.

6. Gargantuan timer bar the never goes away - Are you people blind or something? This thing takes up 25% of the screen for what? And it stays on forever.

7. The remote is a disaster

8. Search stinks

9. FF1 is like 1.00001 times regular speed and then it jumps back like I'm not able to react to such blazing speed.

10. FF2-FF4 jump back way too far and the difference between FF3 and FF4 is too large FF3 needs to be faster as it's not much different than FF2. I know this was a feature that was added as a response to many requests (while DLB is being ignored) but they botched the implementation.

I'm too tired to go on but lets just say that if there was s FULLY functional TiVo S3 with a D* receiver I'd throw the HR20 in the garbage tomorrow. Since I no longer subscribe to NFL Sunday Ticket, I'm considering switching to another service (possibly Verizon FiOS since I have their internet access already) since NFLST was the only reason I have stayed with D*.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Buddy said:


> 2. 30 second slip - Are you kidding me? I WANT TO SKIP, not watch 30 seconds of garbage in 3 seconds.


You'll be please to learn that you can skip on the HR20 just like the TiVo. Go to Search > Keyword. Enter 30SKIP, Continue. Wait for response that no matches found. Now when you press ADVANCE you will SKIP instead of SLIP. (To restore SLIP functionality, enter 30SLIP as a keyword search.)



> 5. Networking - YABDI, why is networking such a taboo with D*? Several years ago I had two ReplayTVs that would allow me to watch shows one one DVR that were stored on the other. This is such a no brainer feature it's ridiculous. These DVRs are just PCs (running Linux) and there is no reason not to have full networking capability.


In the current national release, networking is fully supported to enable users to order PPV and to submit diagnostics reports to DIRECTV. DIRECTV is also actively testing many features regarding networking (see the Cutting Edge forum for more information), and although I won't mention the features, many will be pleased. 


> 8. Search stinks


Can you elaborate? I use search often, and with the introduction of filters, find the search even more powerful than TiVo. I can add filters to restrict keyword searches to a specific channel or to a specific channel range (CCHANEL), search only titles (TTITLE), or only people (NNAME). I can specify to find AALL or AANY of the search terms, and even to ignore results using a NNOT filter. The only problems I have with search are the limit of only 25 recent searches saved, and that search isn't restricted to only the channels you get, but all channels are searched.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> You'll be please to learn that you can skip on the HR20 just like the TiVo. Go to Search > Keyword. Enter 30SKIP, Continue. Wait for response that no matches found. Now when you press ADVANCE you will SKIP instead of SLIP. (To restore SLIP functionality, enter 30SLIP as a keyword search.)
> 
> In the current national release, networking is fully supported to enable users to order PPV and to submit diagnostics reports to DIRECTV. DIRECTV is also actively testing many features regarding networking (see the Cutting Edge forum for more information), and although I won't mention the features, many will be pleased.
> Can you elaborate? I use search often, and with the introduction of filters, find the search even more powerful than TiVo. I can add filters to restrict keyword searches to a specific channel or to a specific channel range (CCHANEL), search only titles (TTITLE), or only people (NNAME). I can specify to find AALL or AANY of the search terms, and even to ignore results using a NNOT filter. The only problems I have with search are the limit of only 25 recent searches saved, and that search isn't restricted to only the channels you get, but all channels are searched.


Would be interested in elaboration on these two also



> 6. Gargantuan timer bar the never goes away - Are you people blind or something? This thing takes up 25% of the screen for what? And it stays on forever.
> 
> 7. The remote is a disaster


Timer disappears here about 2 seconds after it is displayed, not sure what the poster is speaking of

Never had a problem with the supplied remote, neither does my 7 year old, can you elaborate on that statement also? Lot easier to use and handle then the old peanut remote was.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Buddy said:


> 6. Gargantuan timer bar the never goes away - Are you people blind or something? This thing takes up 25% of the screen for what? And it stays on forever.


Press play a second time to make it go away.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

wingrider01 said:


> Would be interested in elaboration on these two also


Skip has been around for many months, access as described.

Advanced search boolean terms have been around about a year, see here for details: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1042604&postcount=29



> Timer disappears here about 2 seconds after it is displayed, not sure what the poster is speaking of


Same here. Can always press play again to make it disappear immediately (just like on Tivo) if that's not quick enough.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Buddy said:


> 1. DLB - much talked about and the fact that D* doesn't do it after much complaing is even more annoying


Yep, doesn't have DLB. There is a very large thread talking about it if you wish to chime in.



> 2. 30 second slip - Are you kidding me? I WANT TO SKIP, not watch 30 seconds of garbage in 3 seconds.


As mentioned, a true 30 sec SKIP has been available for quite some time.



> 4. eSata - yet another brain dead implementation (YABDI), it doesn't add to your capacity it completely replaces it so now I have a completely unused 300GB of storage space, maybe I can rent it out to some third world TV viewer.


Why? Simply buy an eSata drive, plug it in and you're done. About as simple as you can get, especially for an unsupported feature. Maybe someday when it's supported then maybe they will have additive options. Guess you can always go with Dish and actually pay them 40 bucks to allow you to even use an external drive. Personally I'll take free and just plug it in. But maybe that's just me.



> 5. Networking - YABDI, why is networking such a taboo with D*? Several years ago I had two ReplayTVs that would allow me to watch shows one one DVR that were stored on the other. This is such a no brainer feature it's ridiculous. These DVRs are just PCs (running Linux) and there is no reason not to have full networking capability.


Not sure what you're talking about here. Networking has been available on the D* DVRs for a very long time. Maybe not the exact features you want, but it's been there and used heavily. Heck, the entire VOD is based on networking the DVR.



> 6. Gargantuan timer bar the never goes away - Are you people blind or something? This thing takes up 25% of the screen for what? And it stays on forever.


As mentioned, it'll disappear in just a couple seconds, just like Tivo. If you want it to go away sooner then hit play again, just like Tivo.



> 7. The remote is a disaster


Personal opinion I guess. Remote it ok. But first thing I do with any remote is program it to my Universal and toss it in the remote graveyard.



> 8. Search stinks


How? What can't you find? Noted above many of the various advanced searching features.



> 9. FF1 is like 1.00001 times regular speed and then it jumps back like I'm not able to react to such blazing speed.
> 
> 10. FF2-FF4 jump back way too far and the difference between FF3 and FF4 is too large FF3 needs to be faster as it's not much different than FF2. I know this was a feature that was added as a response to many requests (while DLB is being ignored) but they botched the implementation.


Ummm, ok. Reacts nearly identical to any DirecTivo I've owned.



> I'm too tired to go on but lets just say that if there was s FULLY functional TiVo S3 with a D* receiver I'd throw the HR20 in the garbage tomorrow. Since I no longer subscribe to NFL Sunday Ticket, I'm considering switching to another service (possibly Verizon FiOS since I have their internet access already) since NFLST was the only reason I have stayed with D*.


Rock on. Go where you'll be happy.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I was a huge fan of the DirecTivos and loved my DSR708.

Frankly I like my HR21 better though, many features and updates that the Tivo lacked. One of my favorites is how it asks you which program to stop recording if there is a conflict or if you change the channel with 2 recording...Tivo always just randomly picked one if you told it to change the channel and said stop recording.


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## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

I'd take the TIVO interface over Direct TV's anyday for one simple reason. IT WON'T CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At first I liked the Direct TV GUI but after a couple of weeks with constant lock ups and media share issues, the system needs an overhaul.

Got bored two weeks ago and decided to watch a couple of seasons of The Sopranos. I have three Boxsets and the rest of the series is on my R10 Tivo box. So I decided to re-attach the Tivo box to my system. Well it's been up for two weeks and I have yet to reset it. My HR21-100, well that's another story. 

Oh how I miss using Dual Line buffers on this thing. I could flip through channels and recordings without worrying if the box is going to lock up.


I really don't want to hear any excuses as to why some people are having no problems with their HRXX boxes compared with others. Bottom line is, the TIVO interface was a wonderful gift to Direct TV users, there was no need to re-invent the wheel.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

Still seems to me that the folks who say they're having no trouble with the HR's are lighter users of the product than people having trouble.

Theres a reason why there's a 50 SL limit, my guess is that the box would struggle to manage more. As a lousy experiment I cut my SL's from 50 down to about 40 and got rid of all my Autorecords. My problems with funny error messages in the history and recording issues seems to have significantly diminished.

Tivo didnt really have these scheduling/recording issues. Probably because they worked it all out and made you watch the 'please wait...' for a couple of minutes whenever you added something or changed priorities.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

groove93 said:


> I'd take the TIVO interface over Direct TV's anyday for one simple reason. IT WON'T CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So why did my T60 crash all the time (once wiping all recordings including an entire season of Buffy) and finally had to trash it and replace with an R10? And why does that R10 need to be rebooted every month or so to relieve the interface from going glacial? 

I'm not saying you don't have problems but let's not claim that the Tivo is perfect. Far from it. It has it's own problems.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm sorry the poll was closed. Maybe someone didn't like the results.

I'm getting used to my HR21, and it has its good points compared to the HR10... but its very sluggish UI, the 50-item limit on SLs, and the lack of a useable Autorecord or a way to go back and forth between the two tuners (without recording something) place the HR2x a distant second to the HR10.

My HR21 has only frozen or crashed once in the two weeks I've had it (and that was because I tried a very badly formed Boolean search)! OTOH, my HR10 reset itself spontaneously a dozen times (and required a manual reset another dozen times, as well as two "Wipe Everything and Start From Scratch" cleanups) over the four years I used it. Still, it held 143 Season Passes and "Autorecorded" Wishlist items.


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

The HR20/21's are great but, I would still take a MPEG4 Tivo set up for DirecTV.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

groove93 said:


> I'd take the TIVO interface over Direct TV's anyday for one simple reason. IT WON'T CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At first I liked the Direct TV GUI but after a couple of weeks with constant lock ups and media share issues, the system needs an overhaul.
> 
> Got bored two weeks ago and decided to watch a couple of seasons of The Sopranos. I have three Boxsets and the rest of the series is on my R10 Tivo box. So I decided to re-attach the Tivo box to my system. Well it's been up for two weeks and I have yet to reset it. My HR21-100, well that's another story.
> 
> ...


Ok... How about hearing that my Tivo HR10 has to get reset all the time, vs. never for my HRXX's? Nothing is perfect, and from the way they are putting Tivo into Cable boxes, you do not want tivo to try and build a system for Directv MPEG-4...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

t_h said:


> Still seems to me that the folks who say they're having no trouble with the HR's are lighter users of the product than people having trouble.
> 
> Theres a reason why there's a 50 SL limit, my guess is that the box would struggle to manage more. As a lousy experiment I cut my SL's from 50 down to about 40 and got rid of all my Autorecords. My problems with funny error messages in the history and recording issues seems to have significantly diminished.
> 
> Tivo didn't really have these scheduling/recording issues. Probably because they worked it all out and made you watch the 'please wait...' for a couple of minutes whenever you added something or changed priorities.


I am a heavy user and don't have issues... I have min 750gig esatas hooked up to all 5 of mine, and between 30 and 45 SL's with ARSL on all of them, and mine don't crash...

I definitely think that a full 50 sl's tax these boxes more, hence the current limit... but no reason to think updates in time might change that...

Couple minutes? I usually went and mowed the lawn, had dinner, went to the movies, and then hoped my machine would be ready to use again...

I don't have any recordings missed issues with the way its implemented rather than making me wait...


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> I definitely think that a full 50 sl's tax these boxes more, hence the current limit... but no reason to think updates in time might change that...


Didja mean:
"no reason to think updates in time might NOT change that" ??


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> I'm getting used to my HR21, and it has its good points compared to the HR10... but its very sluggish UI,


Sluggish where? If there is one thing the HR2x isn't compared to the HR10 is sluggish.



> lack of a useable Autorecord


Have you tried the boolean searches? I can replicate just about any Tivo wishlist with these additions and can even go beyond what a wishlist can do.



> OTOH, my HR10 reset itself spontaneously a dozen times (and required a manual reset another dozen times, as well as two "Wipe Everything and Start From Scratch" cleanups) over the four years I used it. Still, it held 143 Season Passes and "Autorecorded" Wishlist items.


Ever think that instability was due to so many SPs and wishlist items?  The Tivo's are well known to get real slow and unstable the more you taxed them with season passes. And right there is the reason for the 50 limit on the HR2x, to prevent that instability. Hopefully with the new database engine they have licensed they will be able to rewrite the database and up that limit. I'm not saying I like the limit, just saying performance is the reason for it.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

_Sluggish where_, Scott? Sluggish pretty much everywhere! But it's inconsistent.

In the Guide or Playlist, page up/down sometimes takes more than 8 seconds to react. Press the Menu key and you sometimes think nothing's going to happen, but it eventually reacts. There are some keys (I forget which now) that I've pressed again, thinking it didn't see the first press, and then I get two presses being acted on at once.

Could the slowness be related to my HR21 being networked? Is that still a problem? Maybe I should pull the plug on my wired network -- but I'm not sure whether I'd have to go through the steps to reconnect every time I plug it back in.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

It is kinda unfair to say overall anything about the HR2x performance as it changes from release to release and software releases are very frequent.

Some releases have been amazingly quick with no issues while others have been a bit of a bear. They are getting better and better overall though, so in soon enough time we should have no issues hopefully.

Honestly I dont have that many issues now, besides sometimes when I get a particularly new and buggy CE release, but that is not for normal users to worry about.

Tivos were not perfect, people seem to forget that, plus there are a lot of features I love on my HR that were never on Tivos and should have been IMO.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> I am a heavy user and don't have issues... I have min 750gig esatas hooked up to all 5 of mine, and between 30 and 45 SL's with ARSL on all of them, and mine don't crash...


Mine dont crash much either, they either get 'weird' and need a reboot or they cancel recordings with a non-descriptive reason code like "no longer in the guide' error 13's. But I think I'm getting somewhere with it. When I dropped the SL'd below 45 I got less problems and at 42 I barely get any. In fact since I cut both boxes down to around 40 SL's, I'm only getting one kids show that regularly gives me the "no longer in the guide" error and thats just on one box. The other one records it fine. I should also point out that a lot of our SL's have a LOT of regular recordings, not just one or two a week. Some of these kids shows are on 4-5 times a day. Many of our recordings (also kids shows) run for 3-6 hours...since sprout decided to start rolling a dozen shows up into one long show.

So someone with 50 SL's that record once a week might work differently from someone with 50 SL's that record a lot. Our to-do list has 120+ items in it.



> Couple minutes? I usually went and mowed the lawn, had dinner, went to the movies, and then hoped my machine would be ready to use again...


Oh come now. Worst delay I ever got with about 80 season passes and autorecord wishlists was about 3.5-4 minutes on a reprioritization.



> I don't have any recordings missed issues with the way its implemented rather than making me wait...


I've rebooted the HR's more times and had more missed recordings in the last six months than I had with 5 series 1's and three directivos over a 7 year period.

I set up our last remaining series 1 unit on our cable line a year and a half ago for my son to play with and put some shows on in his play area. It hasnt been rebooted or missed a show in 18 months, even with a four year old plinking on the remot control...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> _Sluggish where_, Scott? Sluggish pretty much everywhere! But it's inconsistent.
> 
> In the Guide or Playlist, page up/down sometimes takes more than 8 seconds to react. Press the Menu key and you sometimes think nothing's going to happen, but it eventually reacts. There are some keys (I forget which now) that I've pressed again, thinking it didn't see the first press, and then I get two presses being acted on at once.
> 
> Could the slowness be related to my HR21 being networked? Is that still a problem? Maybe I should pull the plug on my wired network -- but I'm not sure whether I'd have to go through the steps to reconnect every time I plug it back in.


Sounds like a bad remote or bad sensor on the HR21 to me. Or IR interferrence from something. Have you tried RF?

Honestly, these things are not slow. Remote press should be immediate. You have a hardware problem somewhere if it's not.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

I've got the same hardware problems on both of mine too then. I tried RF and that was awful. Even with a big aftermarket set of rabbit ear antennas if the unit wasnt in line of sight the RF controls dropped button pushes, double pushed when I single pushed, and had delays. After a few weeks I gave up on the RF and went back to IR because it was better. The IR remote frequently doesnt respond for 2-3 seconds after I push the button. I've become trained to watch for the blue light to blink on the front of the unit so I know its gotten the remote button push, then I just sit and wait for it.


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## Stanley Kritzik (Aug 4, 2005)

mjbvideo said:


> While I love the features in my HR21-100, I would instantly give them up for the reliability of my old Tivo box. HR2x is a major piece of junk because of its high failure rate. I consider any RBR, blank recordings, choppy video, etc. a failure.


Such as HDMI. This was a known issue with the Tivos. I went through four replacements, and finally settled on component video because each one failed with HDMI, and it was announced as a "known problem".

Also, occasionally, I'd get a grainy green screen requiring some sort of manual attention -- I forget what.

The point is -- nothing's perfect, and, at least, the HR21 software/firmware keeps getting improved. Also, the RF option for the remote is great -- much less pointing, and you can half hide the DVR fro prominence.

Stan


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Sounds like a bad remote or bad sensor on the HR21 to me. Or IR interferrence from something. Have you tried RF?
> 
> Honestly, these things are not slow. Remote press should be immediate. You have a hardware problem somewhere if it's not.


Surely not in the remote or the sensor... 

I said, _"... page up/down sometimes takes more than 8 seconds to react. Press the Menu key and you sometimes think nothing's going to happen, but it eventually reacts. There are some keys (I forget which now) that I've pressed again, thinking it didn't see the first press, and then I get two presses being acted on at once."_

These events indicate that each of my remote's commands was being recognized by my HR21. It's just a question of how quickly those commands were acted upon.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> I'm sorry the poll was closed. Maybe someone didn't like the results.


More likely, the author of the thread (way back in October 2007) specified a time limit on the poll.

Given that the HR20 that was in the hands of consumers in October 2007 was a much inferior product to the HR20 in the hands of consumers today, I wouldn't be surprised if a new poll today had completely different results.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> More likely, the author of the thread (way back in October 2007) specified a time limit on the poll.
> 
> Given that the HR20 that was in the hands of consumers in October 2007 was a much inferior product to the HR20 in the hands of consumers today, I wouldn't be surprised if a new poll today had completely different results.


and on that note, thread Part II for the year 2008:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137854


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## jimmy_27320 (Aug 18, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Sluggish where? If there is one thing the HR2x isn't compared to the HR10 is sluggish.
> 
> Have you tried the boolean searches? I can replicate just about any Tivo wishlist with these additions and can even go beyond what a wishlist can do.
> 
> Ever think that instability was due to so many SPs and wishlist items?  The Tivo's are well known to get real slow and unstable the more you taxed them with season passes. And right there is the reason for the 50 limit on the HR2x, to prevent that instability. Hopefully with the new database engine they have licensed they will be able to rewrite the database and up that limit. I'm not saying I like the limit, just saying performance is the reason for it.


Can you give a little more detail on how you replicate a tivo wishlist?


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## Spiky (Aug 9, 2008)

Grentz said:


> It is kinda unfair to say overall anything about the HR2x performance as it changes from release to release and software releases are very frequent.


That makes no sense at all. Are you claiming the software has no impact on our usage? The software is paramount.



bonscott87 said:


> Honestly, these things are not slow. Remote press should be immediate. You have a hardware problem somewhere if it's not.


Honestly, mine is slow. Mostly. I have a very nice universal remote that is far more capable than the D* remote and my HR21-100 sometimes is very snappy. But often it takes several seconds to respond. Other times it just seems to ignore commands. It absolutely refused to let me press "3" earlier tonight for about 2 minutes. Other number buttons were working.

The Tivo is also slow, but it is more consistent. So far, a bit faster overall. Plus, when it does slow down, you can pretty much bet on all the button presses coming through, so patience works. Not on the HR21, you have to be patient and then see what you have to re-press. Considering all the ranting that went on starting a year ago about how crappy the Tivo is in comparison, I'm shocked to find the Tivo faster. Sure would like to know what you folks are talking about.

So, when's the next upgrade?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

A new poll on this subject has been started here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137854


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

I like both units, they each have their own charms.


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