# R15 DVR Delima?



## ldhays (May 25, 2006)

My first post and I am totally confused by all of this! Yesterday I placed an order with DirectTV for two R15's and then decided to do some research on them and was surprised by all the negative feedback! I know I should have researched first then ordered but I did it back wards! My research scared me into canceling my order with DirectTV, when I questioned their Tech about my concerns she said she was unaware of any problems! Then I found this Forum and was blown away by all the issues with this receiver! I have a Hugh's receiver with TiVo now and it has never, I mean never gave me one problem! My second receiver is a Hugh's also but it does not have TiVo and so I thought I would get the latest DVR update to replace it and my old TiVo and that's what led me to the R15! Should I wait a few weeks to see if this all goes away, and if it doesn't what do you do about upgrading to a DVR? One more thing, there is a 500 and a 300 DVR, which is the Phillips and which is the Humax? I guess you have no control over which one you get when you place an order? I cannot beleive that DirectTV would market a piece of equipment that has this many problems and then when questioned about it deny any knowledge of those problems existing!!! Maybe someone should forward a link to this forum to them!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Opinions vary here. IMO the R15 is getting better. But it still has plenty of problems as you see here.

The R15-500 is Humax and the -300 is Philips. Differences? Physically and electronically yes, performance wise ???? Stability wise ???? Depends on who you ask.

If you like your DTivo, look around for those units. The R10 may still be available from online retailers. You can also get S2 DTivos off EBay for a reasonable price.

As far as some CSRs being "unaware of any problems"....well, ignorance is bliss. Software updates for the R15 have been coming out about every month, so someone at DTV is aware of some problems. My R15 is in my office and I don't depend on it for anything important. I leave those recording to my DTivos.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

ldhays said:


> Maybe someone should forward a link to this forum to them!


Directv is aware of the issues..maybe the CSR you spoke to isn't, or maybe he was just trying to persuade you to keep the R15s

To Directv's credit, they have released several software upgrades in hopes of improving the performance of the machine.

Unfortuantely, many issues remain. ...your results may vary. Some have never had issues, some report improvement, some have gotten worse.

Personally, I would stick with your current receivers until you have an issue withthe tivo or there is a significant change in the reports on this and other forums regardign the R15 perfromance.

If you really want to try it, or really want DVR capability on your non-DVR receiver. Get just one. Given the reliability of your Tivo you should be able to avoid any missed recordings as you brean in the R15. Make sure any must-sees are Tivo'd even if recording on the R15

If you really really like Tivo, you may have difficulty adapting to the new interface. But that is simply a matter of taste.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> Directv is aware of the issues..maybe the CSR you spoke to isn't, or maybe he was just trying to persuade you to keep the R15s


I've spoken with several CSRs, one of whom has an R15. None of them acknowledged awareness of problems apart from some SL-related glitches. I believe that they were ignorant, not insincere.


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

ldhays said:


> I have a Hugh's receiver with TiVo now and it has never, I mean never gave me one problem! Should I wait a few weeks to see if this all goes away, and if it doesn't what do you do about upgrading to a DVR?


If you like your DirecTiVo, try, try, try to find one at a store. While visiting my parents a few weeks ago, I found a R10 at a Circuit City (Auburn Hills, MI) and picked it up. Check Walmart too or weakness.com if you're willing to spend a litte more.

I would be willing to bet if you like your TiVo and have never had problems with it, you'll never ever ever ever never ever like the R15. It'll always be a turd even if it is ever fixed. There are some pretty bad design decisions. Horrible implementation of basic DVR functions.

My wife and I tried the R15s for a month and went back to TiVo. The R15s sit in the basement on a shelf. They'll be my new goalies when the pond freezes this winter.



ldhays said:


> I cannot beleive that DirectTV would market a piece of equipment that has this many problems...


Believe it. The R15 is a giant pile.  IMHO


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

profbobo said:


> I would be willing to bet if you like your TiVo and have never had problems with it, you'll never ever ever ever never ever like the R15. It'll always be a turd even if it is ever fixed. There are some pretty bad design decisions. Horrible implementation of basic DVR functions.


That is what you end up with when you adopt the "look and feel" of a stand alone SAT receiver and plug that into a DVR. It's very obvious that DTV started with the D10/D11 GUI and then attempted to plug in the additional screen required for DVR functionality into the R15. Very confusing presentation.

Use of colored buttons that mean different things on different screens...Bad. Use of "Tabs" with a device that doesn't support a pointing device....Bad. A stand alone receiver and a DVR have very different user interface needs. Trying to make them all the same is a mistake.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

If you have already ordered them....

Try them out... heck you might be like a lot of us, and don't have any issues with them.

Note: It did take me a few weeks to overcome the 5 years of using the Tivo interface.... but now that I have, I find the R15 to be pretty decent.

Remember on Forum boards like this, and TCF, and other places... they are going to be "negative" heavy. As my standard example. when was the last time you logged into your Microwave website, just to say everything is okay...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Trying to make them all the same is a mistake.


Why is trying to make a common GUI accross the products a mistake?

Pieces of it need to be enhanced for the DVR experience, but in general... why would having the same general GUI and usage steps across all the reciever be a bad thing?

If you know how to use the Guide on a D11, you will immediately know how to use the Guide on an R15... or if you are used to the H20, when the HR20 comes out, it will basically be the same experience for he user.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

It was never an issue before, when D* had receivers and dvrs available from a plethora of manufacturers, each with a different interface. And each brand of tv has it's own menu system. And each brand of microwave has it's own control panel.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> It was never an issue before, when D* had receivers and dvrs available from a plethora of manufacturers, each with a different interface. And each brand of tv has it's own menu system. And each brand of microwave has it's own control panel.


Actually... to some people it was an issue.
Like for my Dad... He had four different standard recievers (because we kept adding them over time). He eventually had enough and we replaced all of them with the same brand.

I have also seen a few people post similar things, that they had a hard time gettnig used to TiVo, because they had other recievers for so long.

And kudos on the Microwave comment.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

You _did_ see the smiley, right?


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Good point, that for _some_ people, different interfaces can be confusing. And there was a solution, to standardize on one brand. I guess, for me, it's the lack of choice which gets me.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

ldhays said:


> I have a Hugh's receiver with TiVo now and it has never, I mean never gave me one problem! My second receiver is a Hugh's also but it does not have TiVo and so I thought I would get the latest DVR update to replace it and my old TiVo and that's what led me to the R15!


The only thing I'd like to point out is that if you are a user of tivo wishlists, particularly if you rely on auto-recording wishlists, you will find the r15 sorely lacking.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> You _did_ see the smiley, right?


Yep... that is why I gave the Kudos.... as I didn't know how to spell too-chay


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Thanks, Earl. In spite of the fact that I may seem too often to be disagreeing with you over one point or another, I hope you realize that I do consider you to be one of the good guys.


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## ldhays (May 25, 2006)

Thanks for all of your responses, I think I will wait and watch the forum for any improvements in the R15!


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

ldhays said:


> Thanks for all of your responses, I think I will wait and watch the forum for any improvements in the R15!


Wise choice.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yep... that is why I gave the Kudos.... as I didn't know how to spell too-chay


The French word that you were looking for is: touché.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Good point, that for _some_ people, different interfaces can be confusing. And there was a solution, to standardize on one brand. I guess, for me, it's the lack of choice which gets me.


Honestly more then different layout I would like to see some different skins for all the menus. I don't really mind the layout being the same but I would like to be able to change the colors and such, I think it was my older phillips D* receiver that I could do it on. Was really nice as some color combos showed up better then others.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Just shows to go ya. I could care less about tabs, no tabs, color, no color, etc. I merely want the darn thing to record all and only the programs I've chosen. Everything else is vanity. Heck, I could get used to specifying the programs via whistled Morse code if I had to.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Yes, that's what it usually boils down to. "Does it record what I want when I want?" 

And, if my microwave cooked a hot dog for the length of time that was needed for a frozen dinner, I'd join the microwave forum to find out if others had the same problem. Earl is right, many of us are seeking answers and some are providing them. There is not a "cheer leading section" in many forums. 

There is less chatter on this board, the question is, are there more happy folks and they don't need it or left out of frustration? (And I don't mean frustration with this board)


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## captain kirk (May 22, 2006)

For what it's worth I regret giving up my R10 for an R15.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

captain kirk said:


> For what it's worth I regret giving up my R10 for an R15.


Do you have the option of switching back? Do you still have the R10?

Carl


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Do you have the option of switching back?


My R15 didn't replace an R10. Nevertheless, I discussed with a CSR the possibility of swapping it out. They can't/won't help do so. But, the CSR was helpful enough to mention some local consumer electronics stores that might have stray R10s in stock.

I'd swap for an R10 in a little less than a pico-picosecond.


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> My R15 didn't replace an R10. Nevertheless, I discussed with a CSR the possibility of swapping it out. They can't/won't help do so. But, the CSR was helpful enough to mention some local consumer electronics stores that might have stray R10s in stock.
> 
> I'd swap for an R10 in a little less than a pico-picosecond.


The guy who installed my R15 had some R10 recivers on his truck and asked me if I wanted that instead when my first R15 he installed died. maybe people who install D* where you live might have one.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

cybok0 said:


> The guy who installed my R15 had some R10 recivers on his truck and asked me if I wanted that instead when my first R15 he installed died. maybe people who install D* where you live might have one.


Interesting thought! Maybe I shouldn't be so reluctant to schedule what I thought to be a useless housecall. Thanks!


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> Just shows to go ya. I could care less about tabs, no tabs, color, no color, etc. I merely want the darn thing to record all and only the programs I've chosen. Everything else is vanity. Heck, I could get used to specifying the programs via whistled Morse code if I had to.


I am not sure what this has to do with people complaining about the interface looking the same or not. I don't mean to be harsh here but the statement I was commenting on had to do with the look and feel not if X or Y is being recorded or if my hotdog is being cooked correctly. OH and to the one who made that comment there are many times that microwaves overcook food you put in them. Sometimes it's user errors sometimes its that the microwave didn't get the temp/humidity and so forth correct on the auto setting and doesn't cook enough or cooks too much.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I am not sure what this has to do with people complaining about the interface looking the same or not. I don't mean to be harsh here but the statement I was commenting on had to do with the look and feel not if X or Y is being recorded or if my hotdog is being cooked correctly.


You're very entitled to your opinion concerning the R15 user interface. And, you're entitled to your opinion concerning how important any alleged user-interface issues are. I'm merely expressing my opinion that, in the big picture, user-interface changes wouldn't much change my opinion of the R15. Unless the unit does what I direct, it doesn't really matter to me how hard or easy it is to direct it. Your mileage may, and apparently does, vary. Peace?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> You're very entitled to your opinion concerning the R15 user interface. And, you're entitled to your opinion concerning how important any alleged user-interface issues are. I'm merely expressing my opinion that, in the big picture, user-interface changes wouldn't much change my opinion of the R15. Unless the unit does what I direct, it doesn't really matter to me how hard or easy it is to direct it. Your mileage may, and apparently does, vary. Peace?


I am not sure how your statment had anything to do with what was being discussed. Yes mileage may vary some have more issues then others. The topic I was talking about was the user interface and why it needed to look like the other portion of the D* products.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I am not sure how your statment had anything to do with what was being discussed. Yes mileage may vary some have more issues then others. The topic I was talking about was the user interface and why it needed to look like the other portion of the D* products.


Well, I sorta suspect that you won't much like my point, let alone agree with it.  But, I'm happy to clarify it and emphasize its relevance to the topic at hand.

Simply put, my point is that the style of interface doesn't matter when the underlying functionality is unreliable. A Jaguar is a stylish car. But, I don't care about its stylishness, because I know that a Jaguar will spend much of its useful life on the mechanic's rack. The essence of good design is fitness to purpose.

It was probably less than courteous of me to have suggested that the user interface design is of less than vital importance. But, I can't help but experience frustration that some folks are concerned about whether they see their favorite color on the menu while others of us can't get good recordings of programs. If DTV provided a new software release that allowed users to choose interface colors but failed to improve reliability, it'd make some folks happy. But, it'd drive me irate because it would be a mis-allocation of resources.

So, a quite salient consequence of my point is that I hope that DTV is not at all influenced by appeals to change the user interface until they've first fixed the basic functions of the R15. Please don't influence them to do otherwise.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

wbmccarty said:


> Well, I sorta suspect that you won't much like my point, let alone agree with it.  But, I'm happy to clarify it and emphasize its relevance to the topic at hand.
> 
> Simply put, my point is that the style of interface doesn't matter when the underlying functionality is unreliable. A Jaguar is a stylish car. But, I don't care about its stylishness, because I know that a Jaguar will spend much of its useful life on the mechanic's rack. The essence of good design is fitness to purpose.
> 
> ...


Changing the UI for aesthetic purposes is ridiculous. However I believe the UI is very important on any device. Be that a DVR, DVD, TV or toaster.

A DVR can have the greatest functionality yet if it takes 5-10 pushes of a remote button going through multiple screens/tabs to get to that functionality makes that DVR useless. Again IMO.

I'll pick on Tivo again as an example. Pull up a menu go up and down in that menu. Press SELECT or RIGHT ARROW and drill down further into that selection. Press LEFT ARROW and go back. Simple. Navigating the menus and screens are clear. On the R15 it's a combination of pulling up a menu, using up and down arrows and select. Going back you use the BACK key which sometimes goes back and sometimes doesn't. You then must notice the TABS and use RED/GREEN to flip between tabs. Then sometimes the RIGHT/LEFT ARROWS get you from a side menu to the tabs. Then the YELLOW key gets you into a completely different screen. There's just no real "flow". To me this indicates portions of the UI were all designed/written by different teams without any type of outline/policy/coordination to follow.

This may not bother some users, but it does bother me.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> Well, I sorta suspect that you won't much like my point, let alone agree with it.  But, I'm happy to clarify it and emphasize its relevance to the topic at hand.
> 
> Simply put, my point is that the style of interface doesn't matter when the underlying functionality is unreliable. A Jaguar is a stylish car. But, I don't care about its stylishness, because I know that a Jaguar will spend much of its useful life on the mechanic's rack. The essence of good design is fitness to purpose.
> 
> ...


I wasn't stating that it's imporant at all in any fashion. It is what it is. I was replying to someone that was asking why it was important that the gui look the same across the products. I simply then said that I would like to see the ability to change the colors "IF" anything at all. I wasn't talking about they should change the gui or they should do others things. I am just at about wits end that every thread has to have someone stating that they ned to do X Y or Z before they worry about anything else. This is coming from me as a MOD the is coming from me as a user on this forum. I just think that it doesn't add anything to the post that someone has to make that statement in every thread. WE GET IT point taken I mean there are more then chances to bash the box. I have issues with mine luckily not as many as others here.

Whats the point of talking about anything if every thread if just going to degrade into someone sayig we shouldn't do this until the box does what it's meant to. You know for MANY people out there it does exactly what it's supposed to do, ya it records too many things and every once in a great while it screws up some show, you know what so does the almighty Tivo I have had MORE then my fair share of shows missed in the years I have now owned them.

Sorry for the ranting bt it's been a long week and I needed to vent on something that gets to me.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Clint, f you don't find the idea of a whistle-sensing Morse-code user interface at least mildly amusing, I'd say you're having a hard week and need a break.  

'Nuff said. I yield to you the privilege of having the last word. Cheers,


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

wbmccarty said:


> Clint, f you don't find the idea of a whistle-sensing Morse-code user interface at least mildly amusing, I'd say you're having a hard week and need a break.
> 
> 'Nuff said. I yield to you the privilege of having the last word. Cheers,


Hey maybe it will make it easier for blind people to use te DVR :lol:

I understand your points man and they are well taken I have my frustrations with the box also but b and large it works pretty well I rarely ever have it miss anything. That also seems to be the general trend around here now is that FAR less shows are missed with the last round of updates.

Am I looking at it on the positive side? Ya I am but then again being positive about things is the only things that keeps most people from wanting to kill me


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## captain kirk (May 22, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Do you have the option of switching back? Do you still have the R10?
> 
> Carl


Yes. I dumped the R15 and I got my old R10 back. I think I'll wait until I move to HD before I revisit DVR's. I hope by then they will have worked out the reliability and usability issues.


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## tobytigger (Apr 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Changing the UI for aesthetic purposes is ridiculous. However I believe the UI is very important on any device. Be that a DVR, DVD, TV or toaster.
> 
> A DVR can have the greatest functionality yet if it takes 5-10 pushes of a remote button going through multiple screens/tabs to get to that functionality makes that DVR useless. Again IMO.
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better. As a new user of DTV, the R15 is a horrible deisgn with no intuitive logic to commands.


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

tobytigger said:


> I couldn't have said it better. As a new user of DTV, the R15 is a horrible deisgn with no intuitive logic to commands.


I dont know maybe im lucky but i have a Dtivo and an R15 since ive had the R15 i've never had a problem with it, im thinling about moving it to the living room to replace mt Dtivo,I understand it doesnt have as many sl as my Dtivo but I might try it.


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> Honestly more then different layout I would like to see some different skins for all the menus. I don't really mind the layout being the same but I would like to be able to change the colors and such, I think it was my older phillips D* receiver that I could do it on. Was really nice as some color combos showed up better then others.


I too wish i could change the color I dont like that blue to much but thats the only problem i have with the R15.


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