# Dish Reveals Plans for E-11 Satellite in FCC Filing



## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Dish has revealed its plans for the E-11 satellite with its filing with the FCC. E-11 will be launched to 110 W with only CONUS capability. It appears E-6 and E-8 will be moved to other locations perhaps E-6 to 61.5 W and E-8 to 119 W or 129 W. Although not specifically stated, my guess is that it will be launched by Sea Launch. The E-11 satellite appears to have very high power downlink capability perhaps allowing less error correction and will also have a camera on it to provide Dish customers with satellite imagery. Here is the overall FCC website link and a second website address with a specific part of that filing that provides most of the relevant information.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-131088

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Thanks for the links.

It certainly answers the question of how many spotbeams E11 will have ... 
A nice powerful ConUS bird.

110° seems like a decent place for a camera too.








http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/unc...on=110&ew=West&alt=35700&tle=&date=0&utc=&jd=


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I'm looking forward to the camera - that might provide some "interesting" pictures - I do follow the tropical storms and this would provide a unique view.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> The ECHOSTAR-11 satellite includes 84 TWTAs, each of 150 Watt saturated power capability. When operated at the 110°W orbital location ECHOSTAR-11 will either use up to 29 active transponders in "high power" mode (using 2 x 150 Watt TWTAs combined for each transponder) or up to 19 active transponders in "super high power" operation (using 3 x 150 Watt TWTAs combined for each transponder), producing peak EIRP levels as high as 58.8 dBW in super high power mode.
> 
> EchoStar will use its two main feeder link earth station facilities with the ECHOSTAR-11 satellite. These are located in Cheyenne, WY and Gilbert, AZ.
> 
> The ECHOSTAR-11 satellite is also equipped with an Earth-view camera system, for which EchoStar has received a license from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration ("NOAA") of the Department of Commerce. This camera produces a real-time standard 720 x 480 pixel NTSC video feed, with image quality and frame rate configurable on-orbit, producing a data rate that is selectable in the 16-400 kbps range, and telemetered to the ground using a standard TM downlink carrier at 12.208 GHz.


I'm wondering if the camera will be encrypted or FTA. 
It is a shame that it won't be 1920x1080p.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

A camera, huh?........
Now, we can all gripe about BW "wasted on a stupid weather camera"  .


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Sales of Telemetry receivers should Skyrocket.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kenglish said:


> A camera, huh?........
> Now, we can all gripe about BW "wasted on a stupid weather camera"  .


Not wasted, invested. And the bandwidth is a telemetry channel (did some more FCC reading last night) that takes no bandwidth away from the regular transponders. (12.208 GHz Left Circular is below TP1 at 12.224 GHz Right Circular and TP2 at 12.238 GHz Left Circular.)

The actual TTC for E11 will be at 12.692 and 12.693 GHz (Right Circular, above TP 32) with uplinks at 17.794 and 17.797 GHz.

Via a legacy LNB the camera will be at 958 MHz, via DishPro look for the signal at 2142 MHz. Yes, John, I'll be looking for a telemetry receiver. Wouldn't it be nice if E* just reuplinked it as a channel we could watch?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Do they list a modulation designator for the camera?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Cool... I can watch my house blow away.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JohnH said:


> Do they list a modulation designator for the camera?


Only what was said above ...
This camera produces a real-time standard 720 x 480 pixel NTSC video feed, with image quality and frame rate configurable on-orbit, producing a data rate that is selectable in the 16-400 kbps range, and telemetered to the ground using a standard TM downlink carrier at 12.208 GHz.​There might be something buried in the "Schedule S" but that file is apparently corrupt.


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## digiblur (Jun 11, 2005)

James Long said:


> There might be something buried in the "Schedule S" but that file is apparently corrupt.


Schedule S opens fine over here. Lots of data....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

digiblur said:


> Schedule S opens fine over here. Lots of data....


I was trying to open it with the FCC's viewer (which expects the data to be in Access97 format). I'll have to try another viewer.


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## digiblur (Jun 11, 2005)

James Long said:


> I was trying to open it with the FCC's viewer (which expects the data to be in Access97 format). I'll have to try another viewer.


Anyone know the password to the GXT database?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

That may be part of the problem. There shouldn't be one. 

I expect there will be a refile with a working mdb file.


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## Stephen J (Mar 26, 2006)

Since most, if not all of the transponders available to E* at 110W are currently being used with SD programming for locals and AT250. How is E*11 going to have that much of an impact in the amount of HD available? Is E* going to be able to use additional bandwidth with this new bird that they currently are not? Thanks.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Stephen J said:


> Since most, if not all of the transponders available to E* at 110W are currently being used with SD programming for locals and AT250. How is E*11 going to have that much of an impact in the amount of HD available? Is E* going to be able to use additional bandwidth with this new bird that they currently are not? Thanks.


E11 will allow E* to use one of their current 110 satellites (E8) somewhere else, so in effect it does increase the bandwidth available. The question is, where will they put E8, and AMC-14 when it launches?


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

The launch and deployment of the E-11 satellite may free up both the E-8 satellite and the E-6 satellite which is at 110 W but not being used. In fact in the FCC filing for E-11, the possible move of E-6 to another slot is mentioned as well as moving E-8.


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## Stephen J (Mar 26, 2006)

So then E11 will probably not be used for HD, it will just allow some of the already existing birds to be used.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Stephen J said:


> So then E11 will probably not be used for HD, it will just allow some of the already existing birds to be used.


There is some HD on E8 now (Discovery HD, ESPN-HD, HDNET, HBO-HD, ...), and I'm sure it will be transitioned to E11. But the main thrust of E11 isn't HD, IMHO.


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## Aransay (Jun 19, 2006)

i think that al dh swehouldeb mvoed to wings one in each side 61.5 o 129/148 
in thay way evy hd shoul cma eor teh smae soure


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Mikey said:


> There is some HD on E8 now (Discovery HD, ESPN-HD, HDNET, HBO-HD, ...), and I'm sure it will be transitioned to E11. But the main thrust of E11 isn't HD, IMHO.


These HD channels @ 110 disappeared from the guide of my 921 some time ago. Did they upgrade them to MPEG 4 when they moved them to 110? All I see now is HD NET HD News and the Voom channels. These are in the red since I never subbed to the old HD pack in time to be grandfathered. I got the 921 to "future proof" my E* set-up (and mainly to get the OTA digital stations).


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

The HDs on 110 are still MPEG2. They may be hidden to you, since you do not have a subscription.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Dish has withdrawn its FCC application for E-11. See the below listed FCC website addresses.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=574600

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...acct=156464&id_form_num=15&filing_key=-131096

Hopefully Dish withdrew this because of problems with the filing and not technical problems with the satellite.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

boo hiss.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

rocatman said:


> Hopefully Dish withdrew this because of problems with the filing and not technical problems with the satellite.


There were problems with the filing ... I'm hoping that was it.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-131786


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The details are at:
http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number

I was hoping that would have fixed the .mdb so it could be read by the FCC Schedule S software, but apparently not.


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## digiblur (Jun 11, 2005)

James Long said:


> The details are at:
> http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number
> 
> I was hoping that would have fixed the .mdb so it could be read by the FCC Schedule S software, but apparently not.


I googled a little bit but couldn't find anything on the Schedule S software. Anyone have a link for this?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It was on the FCC's site last year when E10's information was released.
Are you finding this .mdb passworded as well?

Software!
Under the International Bureau Filing System ... ( http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/myibfs/ )
"Schedule S Form Information"

Instructions and a download are on that page (I couldn't find it last week when I looked).


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## digiblur (Jun 11, 2005)

James Long said:


> It was on the FCC's site last year when E10's information was released.
> Are you finding this .mdb passworded as well?
> 
> Software!
> ...


Thanks for the link, I was able to open the Schedule S fine. No attachments for the beam coverage though.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Wierd. I'm going to have to try downloading it again (10th time might be the charm).

I still get a password request when trying to open the .mdb in an .mdb viewer.
The .mdb for E10 works fine in both the FCC software and the viewer.


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## psnarula (Aug 13, 2005)

i've been wondering about how this new satellite might affect hd locals at 129 or 118.75 or 61.5.

so based on what i'm reading here, would it be fair to say that it seems unlikely that the conus hd locals will be moving to a spotbeam any time soon?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

That would be a fair assumption.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Coming in December!
Planned for launch between October 1st and November 15th with an in service date of December 15th, 2007.








This image shows the improvement in coverage in Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico that will come with E11 coming online! (Yellow is -20dB, Blue is -15dB and the red circle is -10dB off of the full strength signals from E11. Individual pictures are available on my website.)

(Depending on actual signal strength this could allow E* to cease mirroring the 10 HD channels for AK/HI on AK/HI spotbeams and use that space for new HD for those areas.)


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Remember there was a FCC requirement that went into effect several years ago that all the birds launched from that point on needed an Alaska and Hawaii lobe. Echostar 8 went up prior to that ruling so it was exempt.

Also the Senators from Alaska and Hawaii forced HD-LIL coverage to those states by July 1st, 2007 - so that's why they made it in so quickly - even though the market rank doesn't justify it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E8 provided service to AK/HI ... E11 will provide better service.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

EchoStar 5, EchoStar 6, EchoStar 7 and EchoStar 8 all had Alaska and Hawaii service requirements and appropriate lobes. EchoStar 7 and EchoStar 8 also have spotbeams for Alaska and Hawaii.

EchoStar 4 had Alaska and Hawaii beams off the main.

EchoStar 10 has Alaska and Hawaii Spotbeams and no ConUS coverage, so the service requirement is also met.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

James Long said:


> E8 provided service to AK/HI ... E11 will provide better service.


As can clearly be seen by the contours, it was not comparable service - and larger dishes were needed - as noted again by issues in the E* thread again in the past few days.

This provides the same type of coverage seen in the lower 48.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It was coverage enough to satisfy the FCC service requirements.

I'm not sure where you are reading issues with 110° in Alaska recently - we've been talking about issues with 129° TP27, but no new complaints about 110°.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Oh Really

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=91253


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yes, really. The FCC decides whether or not their service requirements are met. Not the customers. E11 will do a _better_ job of serving Alaska and Hawaii, but E8 is adequate to meet the requirement.


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## Jason Dalton (May 4, 2004)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Oh Really
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=91253


For 110 in southern Ak (at least Anchorage & Kenai for sure) a 6' dish is pretty much minimum for the Conus transponders of of e8. A 4' can pull them in just barely but drops out. This gentleman is getting the HD spotbeams off of E10. with a 90cm he won't see the conus from e8.

James -

With e11's map you put up, it seems AK/HI will benefit from the additional gain. Do you think a 1meter (gain ~42db) would be able to pick up the new conus transponders?

Having the HD is nice now, but it would be that much cooler to pick up the additional package channels from the 110 location....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jason Dalton said:


> With e11's map you put up, it seems AK/HI will benefit from the additional gain. Do you think a 1meter (gain ~42db) would be able to pick up the new conus transponders?


I expect it will.

Once people in AK and Hawaii can see E11 ConUS 110° as easily as the new E10 spotbeams at 110° I expect that the AK/HI HD channel package will grow. You will get the same ConUS 110° feeds as the rest of the country and the spotbeams can be used for content from 129°. Eight of the 10 AK/HI HD channels are already ConUS on E8 ... I'd guess that the six non-Voom channels Alaska/Hawaii is missing would be a natural replacement.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Anyone heard anything new. Looks like Sea Launch is still on track and the return to flight satellite Thuraya-3 should go up sometime in October. Hopefully E11 will be soon after.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

It appears sea launch is claiming that E11 is set for 2008  . Hopefully they have another plan or we wont be getting two sats by years end.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

The ECHOSTAR-11 satellite includes 84 TWTAs, each of 150 Watt saturated power capability. When operated at the 110°W orbital location ECHOSTAR-11 will either use up to 29 active transponders in “high power” mode (using 2 x 150 Watt TWTAs combined for each transponder) or up to 19 active transponders in “super high power” operation (using 3 x 150 Watt TWTAs combined for each transponder), producing peak EIRP levels as high as 58.8 dBW in super high power mode.

Would that be the most powerful transponders in use on any satellite. 3x150=450watts


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Christopher Gould said:


> The ECHOSTAR-11 satellite includes 84 TWTAs, each of 150 Watt saturated power capability. When operated at the 110°W orbital location ECHOSTAR-11 will either use up to 29 active transponders in "high power" mode (using 2 x 150 Watt TWTAs combined for each transponder) or up to 19 active transponders in "super high power" operation (using 3 x 150 Watt TWTAs combined for each transponder), producing peak EIRP levels as high as 58.8 dBW in super high power mode.
> 
> Would that be the most powerful transponders in use on any satellite. 3x150=450watts


The power levels are not additive like that. Someone correct me if I am wrong because it has been many years since I had to deal with that type of math but I think the powers are logarithmically added. Regardless of how they are added, in "super high power" mode the E-11 TPs will be more powerful than anything Dish has now and should allow Dish to use less error correction resulting in more bandwidth for download signal. This could allow Dish to put maybe 7 or 8 HD channels per TP instead of the 6 they are doing with MPEG-4. I am not sure how the numbers would be for SD channels. As posted elsewhere in discussing MPEG-4, Dish might be able to put up to 40 SD channels per TP when using MPEG-4 as compared to the nominal 12 SD channels per TP currently.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The wattage is additive but the results are more logarithmic. There could be some loss as the TWTAs are combined but they should still be able to get close to 450w out of three TWTAs.

What that means on the receive end is where the scale changes. While 450w is 50% more power than 300w and 200% more power than 150w it only bumps up the signal a little. A little may be enough to help in cases where people only need a little more signal. Certainly the more power one has the better!


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I wonder why they are putting up such a new satellite with all that power at 110, if they are relaunching the entire service over in MPEG 4 at the two newer orbital locations? I think I read that they can move the older echostar 6 and 8 from 110w to other orbital locations - maybe at 86.5 or 97 to be used in conjunction for the mpeg 4 service along with the newer leased satellite that is supposed to launch this year. But it seems like a waste to launch a new sat at 110 when you are trying to move all your subs to the newer mpeg 4 service anyway. Then again I keep wondering how the newer satellites at 86.5 and 97 will receive their signals anyway. Will they just relay the signal off of the existing 110/119 /129/61.5 sats to the newer sats at 86.5 and 97 in mpeg 4 or will they use uplink centers that they already have , to send the signal to the older sats and to the newer sats at the same time?


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I wonder why they are putting up such a new satellite with all that power at 110, if they are relaunching the entire service over in MPEG 4 at the two newer orbital locations? I think I read that they can move the older echostar 6 and 8 from 110w to other orbital locations - maybe at 86.5 or 97 to be used in conjunction for the mpeg 4 service along with the newer leased satellite that is supposed to launch this year. But it seems like a waste to launch a new sat at 110 when you are trying to move all your subs to the newer mpeg 4 service anyway. Then again I keep wondering how the newer satellites at 86.5 and 97 will receive their signals anyway. Will they just relay the signal off of the existing 110/119 /129/61.5 sats to the newer sats at 86.5 and 97 in mpeg 4 or will they use uplink centers that they already have , to send the signal to the older sats and to the newer sats at the same time?


Satellites at the any new locations would receive their signals from ground stations probably at the same locations that Dish currently uses. Not quite sure why this question was raised but the signals certainly would not come from other satellites because the satellites aren't design to do that.

In regards to launching E-11 to 110 W versus 86.5 or 97 maybe that these two new slots are DBS "tweener" slots i.e., 4.5 degrees away from existing DBS slots in Canada and the USA so a high powered satellite like E-11 may cause more interference with the adjacent DBS slots and E-11 was designed way before Dish had any idea that the FCC may approve DBS "tweener" slots. It should be noted that the FCC has approved Dish building a satellite for the 86.5 W slot but requires that they work to resolve any interference issues with Telesat, the owner of the DBS satellites at 82 and 91 W before anything is launched or possibly moved there.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

SLOTS 86.5 and 97 are supposed to be where the new mpeg 4 service is supposed to be sent from. My question is why do we keep putting all the newer sats at existing slots at 110 if we are going to transition every one over to the new mpeg4 service anyway? THAt is why I asked if the existing sats at the old slots ,will be able to be used with the new slots at 86.5 & 97 by relaying the video /audio to the new slots or if the newer slots would be uplinked at the same time in mpeg 4 as the mpeg 2 sats. I know there is speculation that once they do get everyone to go to the new mepg 4 service that they will reuse the old slots at 110/119 for a possible West coast version of the mpeg 4 service. I just wondered if we could keep using the older sats in conjuction with the newer service in mpeg 4 or if they will be entirely seperate in useage.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I believe you are putting too much faith in rumor and speculation. 

110° needs a new satellite and E11 has been in the works to go there for quite a while.
The new "MPEG4 only" service is secondary.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Okay ,I give up on speculation . Although I see that 95 % of this and other web boards are made of this very thing: speculation. The truth be known is that I don't really think ANYONE knows what is going on with the new mpeg 4 service or if they will be reusing the older slots with it or not. I am just thinking ahead here with what will be the eventual transistion of all DISH subs to the newer mpeg 4 service, and how it all fits together . I wish DISH would just fill us in on their plans with a little more concrete details . DIRECTV used to never tell us what is really going on and now it looks like DISH is following their lead.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Okay ,I give up on speculation . Although I see that 95 % of this and other web boards are made of this very thing: speculation. The truth be known is that I don't really think ANYONE knows what is going on with the new mpeg 4 service or if they will be reusing the older slots with it or not. I am just thinking ahead here with what will be the eventual transistion of all DISH subs to the newer mpeg 4 service, and how it all fits together . I wish DISH would just fill us in on their plans with a little more concrete details . DIRECTV used to never tell us what is really going on and now it looks like DISH is following their lead.


Dish can't tell you - they haven't figured it out yet - and that IS not speculation.

Remember there are over 11 - 12 Million SD only subs - and consider multiple boxes per account - thats a major expense to absorb - as everyone would need to be replaced before they could reuse 110W/119W to a HD only MPEG4 service.

Odds are great you could put up 4 New Birds cheaper than you could replace out all the SD IRDs.


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## bsoft (Feb 6, 2006)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Dish can't tell you - they haven't figured it out yet - and that IS not speculation.
> 
> Remember there are over 11 - 12 Million SD only subs - and consider multiple boxes per account - thats a major expense to absorb - as everyone would need to be replaced before they could reuse 110W/119W to a HD only MPEG4 service.
> 
> Odds are great you could put up 4 New Birds cheaper than you could replace out all the SD IRDs.


I doubt that. Even at $100 per IRD, that's only $1.1-$1.2 billion. I don't think you're going to be able to build and launch a satellite for $300 million.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

bsoft said:


> I doubt that. Even at $100 per IRD, that's only $1.1-$1.2 billion. I don't think you're going to be able to build and launch a satellite for $300 million.


You're not counting those accounts with multiple boxes, although I tend to agree with your theory. They will have to swap out boxes eventually so I would rather see them do it now than later. Of course, part of the reasoning for doing it later is that part of the problem will be taken care of through churn and general attrition.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Odds are great you could put up 4 New Birds cheaper than you could replace out all the SD IRDs.


The second issue is spectrum. Where are you going to put those birds? DBS slots are best. FSS isn't bad. You need some place where the satellite can be placed.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

James Long said:


> The second issue is spectrum. Where are you going to put those birds? DBS slots are best. FSS isn't bad. You need some place where the satellite can be placed.


Agreed. I was just trying to get the point across of the cost involved to change out that many SD IRDs.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

These next couple of years will be good for IRD replacements. HD is giving people a reason to get rid of their old receivers so they can get a better picture on their TVs. OTA DTV is also going to help ... the closer we get to February 2009 the more satellite subscribers who get OTA will realize that they will need a DTV tuner for their remaining analog sets ... they might as well get one that is integrated (EPG and all) with their satellite service.

I'd be surprised to see MPEG2 satellite too far into 2009. E* needs the space for all the DT channels that subscribers WILL want in HD. Especially in markets where the SD is gone forever. The next 18 months are going to be interesting!


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

In all due respect, i don't think E* could switch out, say 30,000,000+ SD IRDs in the next 24 months.


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## kariato (Dec 16, 2002)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> In all due respect, i don't think E* could switch out, say 30,000,000+ SD IRDs in the next 24 months.


I don't think that Dish is targeting HD subscribers. I think they know that DirectTV has that market cornered for the next year at least starting this fall.

Plus even though NTSC will be dead OTA in Feb 2009. It will be alive and well in peoples homes until 2020 given that people are still purchasing NTSC TV in the distribution channel. SD receivers which output an NTSC still be selling for a long time to come. Actaully be in greater demand in 2009 after alot of OTA people add extra receivers. Even the most advanced HDTV has plenty of NTSC inputs.

I imagine that we will see the nieche channels go MPEG4 first while the TOP 200+PREMIUM channels go last. When you have a significant HD advantage in the amount of programming available then you might see people spend alot of extra money.

BTW I have 3 HD TV in my house and PC with an ATSC tuner and I still have all SD receivers at home. Until the HDTV receivers come down in price, I can watch the locals OTA with a perfect Digitial picture without the need to spend $400 dollars on a new PVR. Since I'm not a sports fan and the extra cost of the HD channel pack why spend all that extra money.


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## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

Hey everyone,

I have been a dish network customer for 12 years and never had a single problem with them until these last 2 years. Basically since I moved from Missouri to Hawaii, I had to change from having 1 dish on the roof too having 2 dish on the roof.

Here is the problem, dish launched a new satellite in space during 2006. They accidently made a miscalculation and interfered with the satellite 110 location. Since then I've been having trouble with any channel on tp 3 and 10. I tried everything from resetting my receiver to calling the dish tech support. I had one guy about 6 month ago that knew about the issue and said to me that this should be resolved by january 2007. Well 2007 came by and nothing happen, so I thought to be patient and wait tell summer 2007, and nothing still changed.


So I called dish back in june 2007, they sent over a tech support to my house, and I requested him to adjust the dish. He told me that wouldnt do any good in Hawaii. He was basically at my house for 2 seconds and charged me 50 dollars..."what a scam?". The tech rep basically said that dish suppose be launching a new 110 satellite for hawaii and will be happening this year, not sure if it is true or not. I called dish today hoping I dont get any cheap labor worker to speak too, well looks like that what dish is heading too, I told them the issue and they reply back to me "do you want to upgrade to a new dish"...hanged up and launghed after that.

Does this mean my issue will be fixed, once the satellite is launched?

or

I was wondering if you guys might know how to fix this issue thanks.


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## EVAC41 (Jun 27, 2006)

scooper said:


> I do follow the tropical storms and this would provide a unique view.


Same here.. Always been interested in tornado's and Huricanne's... Never been in a tropical storm or huricanne but i would love to be in one to see what it is like.. Back up here in Fargo. My first year on Skywarn I got a close to a tornado while chasing it (Tornado was I say 5 to 7 miles west of me). The tornado was coming towards Fargo but went back up into the clouds before coming into the city.. There was this year a tornado that touched down in this farmers field then it went back up and over his house, then touched down again in his other field. I'd say he had a angel :engel10: watching over his house.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Never been in a tropical storm or huricanne but i would love to be in one to see what it is like..


Here ya go... This is what Hurricane Jeanne did to my neighborhood in 2004. http://www.pbase.com/rking401/hurricane_jeanne
This is what Hurricane Jeanne did to MY building in 2004: http://www.pbase.com/rking401/420_1st_street_damage
This is what I went through to clean up that building in 2004/5/6: http://www.pbase.com/rking401/federal_plaza_rebuild
Many buildings in these pictures can still not be occupied to this day. Many more of these buildings are GONE. Are you SURE you want to go through a hurricane?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

No I DON'T - Fran in 1995 was bad enough  we lost 8 50-75 foot trees out in the woods (fortunately, none hit my house) and we were without power for just over 24 hours. Some people in the area were down for 2-3 weeks. Fran was a wake up call for North Carolina in the Raleigh area.


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## HuggieBear (Nov 17, 2006)

EVAC41 said:


> Never been in a tropical storm or huricanne but i would love to be in one to see what it is like.


Trust me...NO you don't ever want to be in a hurricane. I went through Rita back in 2005 and that was the scariest thing I have been through in all my 40 years. Then the aftermath was no fun either 9 days with out power and it was HOT as hell. I hope to never go through that again.


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## EVAC41 (Jun 27, 2006)

Richard King said:


> Here ya go... This is what Hurricane Jeanne did to my neighborhood in 2004. http://www.pbase.com/rking401/hurricane_jeanne
> This is what Hurricane Jeanne did to MY building in 2004: http://www.pbase.com/rking401/420_1st_street_damage
> This is what I went through to clean up that building in 2004/5/6: http://www.pbase.com/rking401/federal_plaza_rebuild
> Many buildings in these pictures can still not be occupied to this day. Many more of these buildings are GONE. Are you SURE you want to go through a hurricane?


Thanks for the links to the photos... That is a pretty big Crab!!!!! :eek2: Hope it wasn't a pet. It look really mad it got disturbed. I know I have had the little ones you get at the pet store and they can get mean if you try and disturb them. I remember one of my fishes went into the tunnel in my tank and the crab didn't like that and nipped him and boy he had second thoughts when he went under the tunnel.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> That is a pretty big Crab!!!!!


Those guys migrate between the river and the ocean dunes a couple of times a year. That one took a detour and guarded my front door for a good part of a day then spent the night in a planter in my carport. Those things were all over the place after Jeanne came through.

The problem with hurricanes NOW is that many people, including myself, can no longer get insurance at anything close to a reasonable rate on their property. Believe me, if you lived in this area you NEVER want to go through a hurricane. Jeanne did over $300,000 damage to my building and, as of Sept 1 the insurance company has cancelled the policy on the building. The insurance company bought me a new roof on my house after Jeanne at a cost of about $10k. The next year they raised my WIND ONLY insurance from about $3,500 to $11,150 per year. We need a few quiet years so that people in my position can get insurance again.

Back on topic, slightly, the camera idea is a great idea as I could watch approching storms from here and make my decision about skipping town. The camera would be nowhere near the resolution to see tornadoes in the midwest though.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

HuggieBear said:


> Trust me...NO you don't ever want to be in a hurricane. I went through Rita back in 2005 and that was the scariest thing I have been through in all my 40 years. Then the aftermath was no fun either 9 days with out power and it was HOT as hell. I hope to never go through that again.


 I'll second that comment. Hurricane Rita was the first real Hurricane to hit the Beaumont/Pt.Arthur , Texas area in years. I was thankfully in Arkansas when it hit and didn't come home for about 10 days, and when I did come home it was hot as hell with no a/c or water for the first days in October. I was out about $10,000.00 in Hurricane damages and insurance and FEMA covered about $7500.00 of it. I am still paying on it . I pray nightly from June 1st - Dec. 1st that we never get hit again. Add insult to injury I am in a trailer park so I am also a target for Tornadoes.:eek2:


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

The actual DBS dishes break off at roughly 80-85Mph wind - and all you have left is the J bracket.

And after the late storm in Miami in 2005, there weren't nearly enough dishes (or install/repair people) so the average time for people to get their dbs back up was 6 weeks.

Bottom line, keep a spare dish and RG6 in the garage and know how to install it yourself.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Bottom line, keep a spare dish and RG6 in the garage and know how to install it yourself.


Better yet, take the dish down before the storm comes in and then put it back up. I had a Starband dish (2 of them actually) at the time and took them down a couple hours before I left town for higher ground.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> The actual DBS dishes break off at roughly 80-85Mph wind - and all you have left is the J bracket.
> 
> And after the late storm in Miami in 2005, there weren't nearly enough dishes (or install/repair people) so the average time for people to get their dbs back up was 6 weeks.
> 
> Bottom line, keep a spare dish and RG6 in the garage and know how to install it yourself.


We had a level 2 or 3 Hurricane Rita when it came through behind my house where the two sat dishes were on a pole together from when I had Primestar in 95. The side sat for 61.5 was hanging down by its J arm but connected , and the main dish 500 was crushed into a C , but still connected and the j arm didn't move. Must of had a good install. Two years later, after I moved the two sat dishes to poles of their own I tried to take the old PRimestar pole down and I twisted it in the ground and the pole broke right off from the rusted bottom. That was some good quickcrite back in 95 . Lasted about 10 years before it gave way.


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## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

The most important thing is WILL this improve picture quality at all or not?



rocatman said:


> Dish has revealed its plans for the E-11 satellite with its filing with the FCC. E-11 will be launched to 110 W with only CONUS capability. It appears E-6 and E-8 will be moved to other locations perhaps E-6 to 61.5 W and E-8 to 119 W or 129 W. Although not specifically stated, my guess is that it will be launched by Sea Launch. The E-11 satellite appears to have very high power downlink capability perhaps allowing less error correction and will also have a camera on it to provide Dish customers with satellite imagery. Here is the overall FCC website link and a second website address with a specific part of that filing that provides most of the relevant information.
> 
> http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-131088
> 
> http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number


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## tpbrady (Sep 1, 2004)

I think I need to clear a few things up on Echo 7 and 8, as well as Echo 11 vis a vis Alaska and Hawaii. 

First Echo 8 took over much of the Conus transponder load from Echo 7 and added new spot beam transponders for Alaska and Hawaii, two spot beams unique to Alaska, two unique to Hawaii, and 5 in common between Alaska and Hawaii. What affected Echo 8 customers in Alaska and Hawaii especially on the HD transponders was a reduction in power out by 3 dB on transponders on Echo 8 as the satellite bus couldn't generate enough power to run everything in "boost mode". Couple that with the higher encoding (8PSK) and the higher FEC (7/8) on those transponders and all of sudden the original dishes on Echo 7 wouldn't work for many transponders on Echo 8.

The FCC requirement for service to Alaska and Hawaii unfortunately has nothing to do with satellite design. The term "comparable service" has come to mean at the FCC, can I order the programming. I view that as shortsighted by the Commission in that they and the DBS providers are the only ones that subscribe to that definition and not the consuming public. We were able to send the FCC Chairman a petition with 1000+ signatures from DBS subscribers in Alaska and Hawaii asking why our service was not comparable to the other states (using the Webster definition of comparable), and actually had a meeting with the Chairman a year ago. Not much has come from that meeting, but at least we got heard. 

Echo 11 will do a lot for Alaska and Hawaii to gain back ground that was lost with Echo 8. 129 is still a lost cause in both states meaning we don't have access to the full slate of DISH HD programming.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Substitute E6 for E7 in your summary and it will be better!

E11 will help as you will get all the 110° HD directly (no mirror on spots needed) and the spots will be freed up for additional HD channels. Not quite "everything" that is available ConUS, but an improvement.


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## tpbrady (Sep 1, 2004)

Thanks for the correction. I get confused with numbers. E7 is at 119. 

If you go back in history the best satellite that has provided service to Alaska was E4, giving us almost 1.5 dB more signal than E7 does today. The absolute best DBS satellite was Tempo 1 but we never saw anything off it.


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## g182237 (Sep 11, 2006)

So when will E11 go up? I'm so tired of the same HD channels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E11 was supposed to go up in November and be in service in December (see earlier in this thread). It is likely to be launched early next year.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

I was wondering with the reported problems with the DirecTV-10 satellite, perhaps DirecTV will slip the DirecTV-11 launch to make sure the same problem isn't on that satellite. This would then allow the E-11 satellite to move up in the Sea Launch schedule.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

That would be nice ... the problems with D-10 are spotbeam related and will not prevent D* from providing all of the promised HD - but it and any similar problems on D-11 would affect D*'s future HD LIL plans.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Read recently that the first Sea Launch mission after their failure is scheduled to be the Thuraya 3 satellite. It was scheduled to launch in late October 2007 but now will slip to no earlier than mid November. Boeing built the Thuraya 3 satellite and they wanted to check to see if it has the same problem that a recently launched commerical satellite that was unnamed in the article. I believe this unnamed satellite is in fact the DirecTV-10 satellite that was also built by Boeing as was the DirecTV-11 satellite. If the Thuraya 3 satellite slips much farther perhaps E-11 can take its place. I know some folks might worry about having their satellite the first launched on a vehicle after a failure but usually greater care is taken to insure there are not two failures in a row.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Getting that slot would be a windfall - although there are probably others waiting for it.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I wonder how all the new sat launches will be affected if ATT does indeed buy DISH ? Would there be any need or interest if CHarlie no longer owns the company?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Satellites are always good for a communications company. Launch them!


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

James Long said:


> Getting that slot would be a windfall - although there are probably others waiting for it.


I believe that E-11 was third in line For Sea Launch behind the Thuraya 3 satellite and DirecTV-11 satellite. Both satellites are Boeing built and both have significant spotbeam capabilities which appears to be problem on DirecTV-10, another Boeing built satellite. I would assume the E-11 satellite is ready to go since in a recent Echostar financial report it was noted that it could be launched at early as October 1 which was prior to Sea Launch coming out with their post failure schedule.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Trust the FCC to work slowly ... nothing new, but the application to launch E-11 discussed in this thread was finally accepted for filing last Friday.

Now it is just a wait for approval and a launch window! 

FCC Public Notice


> EchoStar Satellite Operating Corporation (EchoStar) has filed an application for authority to launch and operate the EchoStar 11 satellite at the 110.0º W.L. orbital location. The request does not seek additional Direct Broadcast Service (DBS) frequencies and/or orbital locations. EchoStar 11 is a CONUS-beam satellite that will operate in the 12.2-12.7 GHz downlink and the 17.3-17.8 GHz uplink frequency bands. Telemetry, tracking, and control (TT&C) for EchoStar 11 will be operated at the edges of the service bands. EchoStar requests a waiver of the cross-polarization isolation requirements set forth in Sections 25.215 and 25.210(i) of the Commissions rules, to operate EchoStar 11 with minimum cross-polarization isolation within its coverage area of 28.8 dB. EchoStar also proposes to transmit Earth exploration images in the space-to-Earth direction on the 12.208 GHz frequency, and seeks a waiver for non-conforming use of the 12.2-12.7 GHz frequency band, to the extent necessary to do so.


http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws...=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Sorry for resurrecting an old post but the FCC approved Dish's application for launch of the E-11 satellite. There is some question what launch vehicle E-11 will go on based on some recent postings elsewhere. It might go on a Proton instead of a Sea Launch Zenit-3. Now an approval letter has not been posted on the FCC website but the application summary (FCC website address below) indicates FCC approval.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I guess that it's good that E* missed the intended launch window in November (since they were still waiting for permission). They will get it up somehow.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

James Long said:


> I guess that it's good that E* missed the intended launch window in November (since they were still waiting for permission). They will get it up somehow.


I think Dish would have asked and received expedited consideration from the FCC if the launch schedule hadn't slipped. I think in the past the FCC has taken launch dates into consideration.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm not sure if they asked for expedited for E-11. E* did ask for expedited for AMC-14 which is not expected to go up until March (IIRC).

Expedited and the FCC are often contrary terms.


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

rocatman said:


> I was wondering with the reported problems with the DirecTV-10 satellite, perhaps DirecTV will slip the DirecTV-11 launch to make sure the same problem isn't on that satellite. This would then allow the E-11 satellite to move up in the Sea Launch schedule.


That's not going to happen. The satellite launch ahead of D11 is on the launch pad and getting close to actual launch. D11 is expected to launch in approx. 60 days. D12 may go up for D* this year also.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E-11 isn't next ... but it will launch. The prospect of checking D-11 isn't a bad idea.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Badger said:


> That's not going to happen. The satellite launch ahead of D11 is on the launch pad and getting close to actual launch. D11 is expected to launch in approx. 60 days. D12 may go up for D* this year also.


Thanks for quoting a post of mine from 3 and a half months ago. Must be a DirecTV susbscriber. By the way, Boeing did check out both the Thuraya 3 and DirecTV-11 satellites for the problems that DirecTV-10 had.


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## jpeckinp (Nov 6, 2006)

Just re-read through the whole thread and it wasn't clear. But has the idea of sats at 86.5 and 97 been scrapped or may the be used at a later time?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Perhaps later. I believe that the initial expectations of using other locations were both premature and misunderstood.


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## jbaker8679 (Jan 12, 2006)

will this replace the 129 sat that is failing or will that prob be a diff sat?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

As noted early in the thread, E-11 is replacing E-8 at 110°.

What happens with E-8 (and E-6 which is currently spare) after E-11 is in orbit has not been announced. It is possible E-6 will be moved over to 129° to help E-5 cover that slot (with E-8 becoming the spare at 110°).


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

jbaker8679 said:


> will this replace the 129 sat that is failing or will that prob be a diff sat?


Ceil will launch a sat to replace the 129 sat in the last quarter of this year. Hopefully the spares could be used to back up the 129 sat since it is so terrible for reception, but I haven't seen anything about doing so in fcc documents.


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## space86 (May 4, 2007)

E-11 Satellite Launch still planned for June of this year ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The last we heard ... yes.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Probably more like July. Galaxy 18 is scheduled for May 13 on Sea Launch and I believe it takes about 60 days to get ready for the next launch.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

BNUMM said:


> Probably more like July. Galaxy 18 is scheduled for May 13 on Sea Launch and I believe it takes about 60 days to get ready for the next launch.


I believe the new launch date for Galaxy 18 is May 21st so the launch of E-11 will be no earlier than July.


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## space86 (May 4, 2007)

Is Galaxy 18 satellite for use by D* ?


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

space86 said:


> Is Galaxy 18 satellite for use by D* ?


No. It is to replace Galaxy 10R.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

rocatman said:


> I believe the new launch date for Galaxy 18 is May 21st so the launch of E-11 will be no earlier than July.


Which site do you use for your info.? I would like to try it for a while. 
Thanks.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

BNUMM said:


> Which site do you use for your info.? I would like to try it for a while.
> Thanks.


I can't reveal my sources. Let's just say some are internal to government agencies.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Here's one source for flight schedules: http://spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Richard King said:


> Here's one source for flight schedules: http://spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html


I would say this is not the best source because it is really not kept up to date. I think this one is better but you have to go into forums and know what you are looking for.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/logon.asp


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## greg47 (Apr 12, 2006)

rocatman said:


> I would say this is not the best source because it is really not kept up to date. I think this one is better but you have to go into forums and know what you are looking for.
> 
> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/logon.asp


Launch was delayed to late May due to a small techinal problem with the satellite. Exact launch date has not been announced yet but look for last week in may. Rocket and payload just intergrated just this last week. 5-7 day cruise to launch location and setup. Any delay at launch location (weather,sea conditions) will push next launch further back.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Looks like the launch is scheduled around July 20th based on this FCC application to test E-11 at 138.5 W. Here is the FCC website address:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-148169


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Charlie reported to say July at today's Team Summit speech.


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## spear61 (Sep 19, 2004)

rocatman said:


> Looks like the launch is scheduled around July 20th based on this FCC application to test E-11 at 138.5 W. Here is the FCC website address:
> 
> http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-148169


You can see what's coming with this test. One thirty eight (138) is a Canadian slot that Ceil recently licensed. Dish is killing two birds with one stone, checking out the new E-11 and doing a road test for Ciel 4 coverage. Good thinking!

http://www.cielsatellite.ca/Licence 28 - 138W 12 GHz BSS Canadian Sat Capacity & Service Plan.pdf


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

spear61 said:


> You can see what's coming with this test. One thirty eight (138) is a Canadian slot that Ceil recently licensed. Dish is killing two birds with one stone, checking out the new E-11 and doing a road test for Ciel 4 coverage. Good thinking!
> 
> http://www.cielsatellite.ca/Licence 28 - 138W 12 GHz BSS Canadian Sat Capacity & Service Plan.pdf


Other DBS satellites have been recently tested at 138.5 W since it is an open DBS slot. I don't think the testing of E-11 at 138.5 W has anything to do with a future Ciel satellite there because the E-11 satellite is not really designed to be used at that slot.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

The E-11 Satellite was delivered to Sea Launch in Long Beach, California yesterday, May 27th. The thing that is really surprising is the power listed, 20 kWatts. I believe the Ciel-2 spotbeam satellite scheduled to be launched to 129 W is listed as a 10.8 kWatt satellite. This high power should allow Dish to lower the Forward Error Correction (FEC) rate to at least 6/7 if not lower perhaps as low as 8/9 allowing more useable bandwidth per TP.

Here is the website address:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...20EB-734C-410E-9843-01B508AE1BF5}&dist=pfbeta


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