# The official "ask veryoldschool" thread



## Stuart Sweet

Folks, 

As many of you know we have a great asset in "veryoldschool", or VOS for short. He's forgotten more about RF and connectivity than many of us will ever learn. 

I'd like to start by thanking him for his immense service to this forum, and I'd like to start an official thread for the many questions you all have for him about connected home, whole home viewing, or anything DIRECTV related.

Please keep to topic and if you have a question, please read on to see if it's been answered.

Thanks!


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## veryoldschool

Guess I should say hi to all and feel free to ask away. I've been answering [and will continue to] a lot of private messages. The idea here is to share the questions and answers as it may help others to have the same question, or something along the same lines.
DBSTalk has become a great place for information, and this is just another place to look for it.


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## phoneman06

Is there a minimum length of the coax between the PI29 and SWM16 when using a standalone connected to the power port of the SWM16? I thought I read somewhere about it needing to be at least 15 feet. My cable is only about 16 inches long and I was worried it might hurt something. Everything is working fine.


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## veryoldschool

phoneman06 said:


> Is there a minimum length of the coax between the PI29 and SWM16 when using a standalone connected to the power port of the SWM16? I thought I read somewhere about it needing to be at least 15 feet. My cable is only about 16 inches long and I was worried it might hurt something. Everything is working fine.


Going into the power [only] port doesn't have a minimum distance.
The 15' comes from the SWM8, and when powered by the SWM output.
This can be "shortened", if you use a splitter between the PI and the SWM8, or if you power a SWM8 through the #3 legacy port.

"Generally" the DC block in the PIs can cause some problems with RF if there isn't enough coax between the two. The SWiM and the DECA in the receivers has shown to have problems if the PI is too close. Using longer coax lengths or having a splitter between the two, ends up with a better impedance match and solves this.


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## phoneman06

Thanks for the quick reply. I am using the DC/PWR port on the SWM16 so I should be good.


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## Drew2k

phoneman06 said:


> Is there a minimum length of the coax between the PI29 and SWM16 when using a standalone connected to the power port of the SWM16? I thought I read somewhere about it needing to be at least 15 feet. My cable is only about 16 inches long and I was worried it might hurt something. Everything is working fine.





veryoldschool said:


> Going into the power [only] port doesn't have a minimum distance.
> The 15' comes from the SWM8, and when powered by the SWM output.
> This can be "shortened", if you use a splitter between the PI and the SWM8, or if you power a SWM8 through the #3 legacy port.
> 
> "Generally" the DC block in the PIs can cause some problems with RF if there isn't enough coax between the two. The SWiM and the DECA in the receivers has shown to have problems if the PI is too close. Using longer coax lengths or having a splitter between the two, ends up with a better impedance match and solves this.


I'm glad someone asked this - never thought to make a change when I moved from the SWM8 to the SWM16.

VOS, applying this to my configuration (below), you're saying that I am safe to remove the 15' loop between the SWM16 and the PI and replace it with a shorter cable length?

(Ethernet CAT5 not displayed below. Follow the link in my signature to view the full setup.)


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## veryoldschool

Drew2k said:


> I'm glad someone asked this - never thought to make a change when I moved from the SWM8 to the SWM16.
> 
> VOS, applying this to my configuration (below), you're saying that I am safe to remove the 15' loop between the SWM16 and the PI and replace it with a shorter cable length?
> 
> (Ethernet CAT5 not displayed below.)


If your drawing is correct: you need to move the coax from the PI [going to the receivers] to where the PI now connects to the SWiM-16. Then connect the PI to the middle connector [not currently used] on the SWiM-16. This way you can then remove the 15' loop.

"This way":









The other option is to move the PI to the output of the splitter, but it seems easier to simply use the PWR connector and never need "to think" about swapping coax and receivers around on the splitter.


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## Drew2k

veryoldschool said:


> If your drawing is correct: you need to move the coax from the PI [going to the receivers] to where the PI now connects to the SWiM-16. Then connect the PI to the middle connector [not currently used] on the SWiM-16. This way you can then remove the 15' loop.


Thanks for the fast response, VOS!

I just double-checked my actual setup: in my diagram I incorrectly had the cables swapped at the PI, so this is how it is actually wired:










This is how the DIRECTV installer set it up when he put in the SWM16 and replaced my WB68 and SWM8 last year.

So ... hopefully that doesn't change your suggestion, as I still want to eliminate that 15' loop.


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## Drew2k

VOS - I see your edit with the diagram... I'm going to change it to the way you suggest. 

My SWM16 and the splitters and the PI are behind the TV console, so eliminating the 15' coil will free up some space back there!

Thanks!


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## veryoldschool

Drew2k said:


> Thanks for the fast response, VOS!
> 
> I just double-checked my actual setup: in my diagram I incorrectly had the cables swapped at the PI, so this is how it is actually wired:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how the DIRECTV installer set it up when he put in the SWM16 and replaced my WB68 and SWM8 last year.
> 
> So ... hopefully that doesn't change your suggestion, as I still want to eliminate that 15' loop.


"Yeah" I blew right past the in & output, and no it doesn't change anything. Do check my addition at the bottom of my last reply.


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## Drew2k

veryoldschool said:


> "Yeah" I blew right past the in & output, and no it doesn't change anything. Do check my addition at the bottom of my last reply.


OK, got it. Cool!

This is the PI-28 model power supply, so it looks different from the Power Supply in your image, so when I swap cables per your suggestion, which port of the PI-28 do I connect to the center port on the SWM? Also, do I terminate the unused port on the PI-28?


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## veryoldschool

Drew2k said:


> OK, got it. Cool!
> 
> This is the PI-28 model power supply, so it looks different from the Power Supply in your image, so when I swap cables per your suggestion, which port of the PI-28 do I connect to the center port on the SWM? Also, do I terminate the unused port on the PI-28?


"The red one", and the output [to RID] only needs a dust cap [but any cap will do].


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## NiTruS

how much, if any, performance upgrade will I get with 2-4port splitters vs. 1-4port & 1-8port in a swm16 config? worth doing?

HR34 & BBDECA off 4-port
3X-HR2X off 8-way..


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## veryoldschool

NiTruS said:


> how much, if any, performance upgrade will I get with 2-4port splitters vs. 1-4port & 1-8port in a swm16 config? worth doing?
> 
> HR34 & BBDECA off 4-port
> 3X-HR2X off 8-way..


For each 2-way split is costs about the same 5 dB as 50' of coax [at the high frequency end].

Maybe a break down of splitters would help:










As you can see a 4-way output has gone through two 2-ways, and a 8-way has gone through three.
Each time you go through one, it has ~ 5 dB of loss. 
SWiM to receiver can only have 30 dB of loss, so the less splitter loss, the longer coax you can have.


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## Drew2k

veryoldschool said:


> "The red one", and the output [to RID] only needs a dust cap [but any cap will do].


Thanks VOS!


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## NiTruS

veryoldschool said:


> For each 2-way split is costs about the same 5 dB as 50' of coax [at the high frequency end].
> 
> Maybe a break down of splitters would help:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see a 4-way output has gone through two 2-ways, and a 8-way has gone through three.
> Each time you go through one, it has ~ 5 dB of loss.
> SWiM to receiver can only have 30 dB of loss, so the less splitter loss, the longer coax you can have.
> The less loss total, the less rainfade you will have, "but" the rain can get heavy enough to end up with no signal too.


so not worth swapping 8-port for a 4-port?
thx for your help!!


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## veryoldschool

NiTruS said:


> so not worth swapping 8-port for a 4-port?
> thx for your help!!


Guess it may depend if the 5 dB is worth the cost of the splitter.


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## Diana C

NiTruS said:


> so not worth swapping 8-port for a 4-port?
> thx for your help!!


What I have learned from reading VOS's posts and his analysis of various issues is that the fewer times you split the signal the better. The loss across an 8 way is the same as about 150' of cable (3 2-way splits at 50' each), or 15db of loss, half of the total limit. Using a 4-way instead is like moving your receiver 50 feet closer to the SWM.

Personally, I'd only use an 8-way if it were unavoidable.


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## veryoldschool

As customers are moving to the HR34 and a SWiM-16, more attention needs to be paid to the type of splitters being used.

Each of the SWiM-16 outputs have the same range as the other SWiMs. If you keep within the 30 dB range, you won't have 771 errors.

I don't like using larger splitters than needed, since they are an inefficient way of doing things. Unused ports need terminations, which are just wasting signal into a resistor, that otherwise would go the the receiver(s), while at the same time adding more loss.

This looks like it's becoming more important with the DECA networking and the SWiM-16s.
The DECA crossover in the SWiM-16 has loss, and the DECA signals also have to pass through the splitters on both sides of the SWiM-16 outputs.

If there is too much loss "end to end" the receivers with internal DECA will report system error 47 or 48, as the network bandwidth is reduced.


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## O2BRich

veryoldschool said:


> Going into the power [only] port doesn't have a minimum distance.
> The 15' comes from the SWM8, and when powered by the SWM output.
> This can be "shortened", if you use a splitter between the PI and the SWM8, or if you power a SWM8 through the #3 legacy port.
> 
> "Generally" the DC block in the PIs can cause some problems with RF if there isn't enough coax between the two. The SWiM and the DECA in the receivers has shown to have problems if the PI is too close. Using longer coax lengths or having a splitter between the two, ends up with a better impedance match and solves this.


VOS

The cable between the PI29 R1 and SWM1\PWR port of the SWM8 is less the a foot. Another 1 foot cable from the PI29 runs to a 4 way splitter.
I am not experiencing any issues should I be concerned?


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## veryoldschool

O2BRich said:


> VOS
> 
> The cable between the PI29 R1 and SWM1\PWR port of the SWM8 is less the a foot. Another 1 foot cable from the PI29 runs to a 4 way splitter.
> I am not experiencing any issues should I be concerned?


I can't really say you should be concerned, since I know of some who've done the same thing.
The min distance came from DirecTV, and it would seem they found "some cases" where there were problems.
It does sound like you have a splitter very close, so swapping the location of the PI and the splitter, so it's SWM8 ->1' coax-> 4-way -> 1' coax -> PI [on the power passing port]-> receiver, wouldn't be hard to do.


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## O2BRich

veryoldschool said:


> It does sound like you have a splitter very close, so swapping the location of the PI and the splitter, so it's SWM8 ->1' coax-> 4-way -> 1' coax -> PI [on the power passing port]-> receiver, wouldn't be hard to do.


Thanks VOS I was wondering how to wire it after the splitter. I will probably make that change.


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## veryoldschool

O2BRich said:


> Thanks VOS I was wondering how to wire it after the splitter. I will probably make that change.


The splitter shows which port [the left one] is the power passing, which is where the PI needs to connect.


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## John4924

Hi VOS. I have one of my HR20 DVRs constantly rebooting since the install of the new software (0x57b). Before I attempt to call directv, do you have any advice on what to try? Thanks.


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## n-spring

DirecTV has announced the HR34/RVU combo, and Dish has announced Hopper/Joey. The former uses DECA and the latter uses MoCA. What are the technical differences, and is one superior to the other?


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## veryoldschool

John4924 said:


> Hi VOS. I have one of my HR20 DVRs constantly rebooting since the install of the new software (0x57b). Before I attempt to call directv, do you have any advice on what to try? Thanks.


So you've got to give me a tough one. lol
These haven't been made in over 4 years.
Some have had power supplies go bad.

The couple of things to try:
Pull the power cord for a good 10 min and see what [if anything] happens when it boots back up.

When it does boot at the "running receiver self test" screen press select to enter the diagnostic menu and run the guided test to see if there are any errors.

If none of this shows anything, "you might see" if forcing the old software does.
At the first "Hello screen" press 02468 and it should change to searching for new software, and during the day, find the old Blue GUI. If it does "fix" the rebooting, it may not last because the new GUI will be pushed to you again, so this DVR may need to be replaced.


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## veryoldschool

n-spring said:


> DirecTV has announced the HR34/RVU combo, and Dish has announced Hopper/Joey. The former uses DECA and the latter uses MoCA. What are the technical differences, and is one superior to the other?


DECA is MoCa, but at a different center frequency. DirecTV is using "MoCa 1.1". I don't know what Dish is using, but MoCa comes in several "flavors" now to work with various suppliers. Above 1 GHz for Cable, and another around 800 MHz, which "may be" what Dish is going to use if they keep their SAT feeds above 950 MHz. Dish doesn't have SWiM, which frees up the below 800 MHz, where DECA is [525 to 575 MHz].
MoCa 2.0 uses 100 MHz [bandwidth, instead of 50] and will handle much more traffic, but I'm hearing it isn't going to be coming to DirecTV "soon", nor is it really needed right now.


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## PCampbell

I have two HR24s and a HR20 all connected to slim5 with a zinwell switch. MRV is thru cat5 to my router. What if any advantage would there be in converting to a swim system?


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## veryoldschool

PCampbell said:


> I have two HR24s and a HR20 all connected to slim5 with a zinwell switch. MRV is thru cat5 to my router. What if any advantage would there be in converting to a swim system?


Going to SWiM & DECA would take the MRV traffic off your home network, and the SWiM can help the SAT signals for rainfade as it will amplify low level signals.
Neither of these may be important to you, so there may not be any advantage.
When I switched over, I have much less cables in my system and haven't lost signal in the rain in a long time.
The newer receivers are SWiM & DECA only, so without them, you can't use a H25, or the HR34 [which still has ethernet].

"I guess" if what you have is working well now, then there isn't any advantage.
It's convenient, simpler to setup and make changes/additions to, but these may not be important to you.


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## PCampbell

Thanks, yes signal level is important to me so I may change this year.


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## TAK3210

Hi VOS. Are there supposed to be zeros in the SWM signal strength table? For example, I'm seeing 100 100 100 0 0 0 98 98 98 on my HR24 connected thru a SWM 8-way splitter to a SL3S LNB.


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## veryoldschool

TAK3210 said:


> Hi VOS. Are there supposed to be zeros in the SWM signal strength table? For example, I'm seeing 100 100 100 0 0 0 98 98 98 on my HR24 connected thru a SWM 8-way splitter to a SL3S LNB.


What you're seeing are the channels in use by other tuners.
If you have every receiver on the same "SWM" screen, they've released the channel for each receiver, so there shouldn't be any zeros.
Then as each receiver exits the setup menu, it will pick up the SWiM channel again and this will show as a zero on the other receivers on this page.
DVRs may need to have both tuners in use before both of their channels show zero.
Channel one is the guide data, so it should never be zero.


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## TAK3210

veryoldschool said:


> What you're seeing are the channels in use by other tuners.
> If you have every receiver on the same "SWM" screen, they've released the channel for each receiver, so there shouldn't be any zeros.
> Then as each receiver exits the setup menu, it will pick up the SWiM channel again and this will show as a zero on the other receivers on this page.
> DVRs may need to have both tuners in use before both of their channels show zero.
> Channel one is the guide data, so it should never be zero.


Thank you, sir. I have all three rcvrs on the SWM screen now and no zeros anymore! I'm checking out whether or not a couple of bedrooms that I have connected as: SWM 8-way -- [~100ft RG6] -- SWM 2-way -- [~100ft RG59] are going to work if and when I get H25's for them. The one I'm looking at now is: 100 100 100 100 100 100 98 98 98. I'm guessing that's pretty good, right? Anything else I should check out? Picture looks good on all the HD channels I've tried.


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## veryoldschool

TAK3210 said:


> Thank you, sir. I have all three rcvrs on the SWM screen now and no zeros anymore! I'm checking out whether or not a couple of bedrooms that I have connected as: SWM 8-way -- [~100ft RG6] -- SWM 2-way -- [~100ft RG59] are going to work if and when I get H25's for them. The one I'm looking at now is: 100 100 100 100 100 100 98 98 98. I'm guessing that's pretty good, right? Anything else I should check out? Picture looks good on all the HD channels I've tried.


Those numbers look fine.
As for the RG59, you will need to have a receiver connected to them [duh].
When I did some testing to see how much loss there could be before there was a problem, I watched the highest channel, since being the highest frequency, will have the most loss and show this first.


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## TAK3210

veryoldschool said:


> Those numbers look fine.
> As for the RG59, you will need to have a receiver connected to them [duh].
> When I did some testing to see how much loss there could be before there was a problem, I watched the highest channel, since being the highest frequency, will have the most loss and show this first.


I have the H25 temporarily connected to one of them now and a terminator cap on the other. When you say highest channel, do you mean the highest channel I get? Which is 654 for me.


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## veryoldschool

TAK3210 said:


> I have the H25 temporarily connected to one of them now and a terminator cap on the other. When you say highest channel, do you mean the highest channel I get? Which is 654 for me.


No, I meant SWM 9, since this is the frequency running through the RG59.
There is another thing that causes zeros. When the SAT signal drops to zero, there isn't any signal for the SWiM to send, so the SWM channels are zero too.
When you dish gets knocked [way] out of alignment, all the SWM numbers are zero.


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## TAK3210

veryoldschool said:


> No, I meant SWM 9, since this is the frequency running through the RG59.
> There is another thing that causes zeros. When the SAT signal drops to zero, there isn't any signal for the SWiM to send, so the SWM channels are zero too.
> When you dish gets knocked [way] out of alignment, all the SWM numbers are zero.


Ah, ok. SWM 9 appears to be a solid 98 on the RG59 connections as well as on the other 2 receivers, which are connected to RG6 runs. So, I guess I can expect these RG59 rooms to work just well as the other rooms, yes?


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## veryoldschool

TAK3210 said:


> Ah, ok. SWM 9 appears to be a solid 98 on the RG59 connections as well as on the other 2 receivers, which are connected to RG6 runs. So, I guess I can expect these RG59 rooms to work just well as the other rooms, yes?


Without have a "real" power meter, you've done all you can and "it should be" fine.


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## TAK3210

veryoldschool said:


> Without have a "real" power meter, you've done all you can and "it should be" fine.


OK, that's good enough for me. One last question re: signal levels. When I look through the satellite transponder screens, they're mostly in the upper 90's or 100 with one or two here and there 0 and/or 80-something. Are those 0's and 80's a problem with my setup or are those bad transponders or something else?


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## veryoldschool

TAK3210 said:


> OK, that's good enough for me. One last question re: signal levels. When I look through the satellite transponder screens, they're mostly in the upper 90's or 100 with one or two here and there 0 and/or 80-something. Are those 0's and 80's a problem with my setup or are those bad transponders or something else?


Most likely these are spot beams that aren't pointed at you.


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## TAK3210

veryoldschool said:


> Most likely these are spot beams that aren't pointed at you.


OK, great! Thanks, VOS!


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## NiTruS

question: advantages/disadvantages to using/not using power passing port on 4-way splitter? right now I don't use it on both 4-way splitters..I have PI hooked to power port on swm16..


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## veryoldschool

NiTruS said:


> question: advantages/disadvantages to using/not using power passing port on 4-way splitter? right now I don't use it on both 4-way splitters..I have PI hooked to power port on swm16..


The "power passing port", is "just another port", to be used as needed.
What makes it different is a large "choke" to pass DC from the output to the input, as seen here:


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## Diana C

I am puzzled by the numbers turned in on a coax test of my (self) installation...

Here are the loss numbers:










So, not surprisingly, two most distant receivers (both H25's) have the highest loss number.

But here are the mesh numbers:










And those 2 modes with the highest loss (-28) have the highest throughput (294).

How is that possible?


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## veryoldschool

The mesh numbers are a bit like the SAT signal numbers, where neither are really related to power, but to the signal to noise ratio.
When you lose enough signal, to lose the SNR, then the numbers drop fast.
Those 290s I think are a software error, as the Phy Mesh maxes at about 260.


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## WebHobbit

VOS (or others) - I posted this in another thread but I thought someone here may wanna weigh in:

So I got a new DirecTV install. I've got an HR34 in the living room and two H25-100s in bedrooms. It's connected via DECA/Cinema Connect kit. I keep having this rather infuriating problem where one or both of the H25s randomly will be unable to play content from the HR34. Generally when it does this I can hit "try again" 2-12 times and it will finally work. I really NEED this equipment to start working reliably as I was the dude that insisted on this change (from 9 years of TiVo) and my Wife and daughter are not at all impressed with the HR34 (with the SD blue UI) as compared to the HDUI on our "old" TiVo Premiere XL.



Anyway so far I have found that the following WILL make it work again but this is a stupid thing to have to keep doing continuously:

1) RBR -at H25
2) Menu reboot -H25
3) power plug pull -H25
4) power plug pull/reconnect -at Cinema Kit module
5) REAUTHORIZE -from DirecTV account webpage.

Any one of those will restore the ability to play stuff on the HR34 from an H25.

So far I have ran the system and network tests both from the menu and from the front panel....and everything looks normal and fine. Both H25s have the beautiful new HD GUI now and the problem was present before and after the update. I REALLY thought I'd fixed this problem earlier today when I went through and configured STATIC IPs for all three boxes. It was very snappy and reliable for a while but a few minutes ago I tried to play something and got the error again! I hit RETRY 5 times and then it started working fine.

I haven't called DTV yet. I was saving that as a last resort. Any ideas? Help me out guys -I'm not the most popular guy in the house at this point.


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## Stuart Sweet

Folks, 

let's try to keep this on topic, for questions that VOS can answer for you on technical matters. 

Thanks.


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## veryoldschool

WebHobbit said:


> VOS I posted this in another thread:
> 
> So I got a new DirecTV install. I've got an HR34 in the living room and two H25-100s in bedrooms. It's connected via DECA/Cinema Connect kit. I keep having this rather infuriating problem where one or both of the H25s randomly will be unable to play content from the HR34. Generally when it does this I can hit "try again" 2-12 times and it will finally work.
> 
> I haven't called DTV yet. I was saving that as a last resort. Any ideas?


Right now there are a few of these threads going on.
My first thought was to check the networking status, but users like *RAD*, who have had a HR34 [which I have yet to get], have posted this is a software problem and network status can be fine.
This isn't the answer you wanted to hear, but even the HR20s were real flaky when they first came out and it took close to six months before the software was stable.
I don't expect it will be six months before you see a software update, but I do respect Rad's experience.


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## WebHobbit

thanks....kinda what I figured


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## five337

I followed WebHobbit over here because I am having the same un-usable service since the addition of the HR34.

I am confident that the SWM16 is split properly.

DirecTV is very nice and sent someone out. Rebooted everything and it worked. Then it just stops later on. 

I ran the GUIDE->RIGHT test. I have one H23 that is giving me 0% on the Tuner1 & Network Tuner - but the live video is playing fine and I have no problems using the H23 to watch live TV. 

I ran the GUIDE->RIGHT test on the HR34. Tuner 1, 2 and 3 are below 90% and 4,5 are high. Is that normal ?

I've attached a few images. The new guide is the H23, the old guide is the HR34. 

Is there anything on these GUIDE->RIGHT screens that I should be looking for ?

-----
My setup - installed by DirecTV a few months ago. 

SWM16. Both outputs are run to 4 way splitters.

4way splitter #1 goes to a H21, HR34 and a HR21 w/ the power injector

4way splitter #2 goes to HR22, HR21, H23, H21, Cinema Connection Kit


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## veryoldschool

There is a third screen [or the second test] for the DECA Phy Mesh that you haven't shown.

As for the tuners and slightly low percentages, what does the signal level screen show for SWM? There will be nine channels listed like TPs for SATs.
#1 is the guide, and 2-8 are the eight SWiM channels. Those receivers on the same SWiM output/leg will show zeros on the receiver running the test, unless all receivers are on the same setup levels menu/screens, which is when each releases the SWiM channels they use.

the Phy Levels looks to be within good range.


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## five337

I've attached the Mesh Screen along with the other screens you mentioned.

Everything was working correctly when I just took these pictures. I had just rebooted the SWM16 a few hours before because MRV wasn't working when I woke up. 

I'll make sure to check these screens again when MRV stops working again.

Thanks for your help !!


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## veryoldschool

five337 said:


> I've attached the Mesh Screen along with the other screens you mentioned.
> 
> Everything was working correctly when I just took these pictures. I had just rebooted the SWM16 a few hours before because MRV wasn't working when I woke up.
> 
> I'll make sure to check these screens again when MRV stops working again.
> 
> Thanks for your help !!


I don't see anything that should be a concern in your photos.
Rebooting the SWiM-16, shouldn't have any effect on MRV, since DECA doesn't interact with the SWiM "at all".


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## Vin

VOS, I currently have WHDVR set up with 4 HR2x HD DVRs with DECA/SWM8. I also have an old R10 DirecTiVo that I want to replace with another HR2x. The R10's two tuners are being fed from a WB68 that runs in parallel with my SWM8 so if I just swap out the R10 for an HR2x and connect an ethernet cable to it that I already have at that location which runs back to my router, will it become part of my WHDVR network? Thanks.


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## veryoldschool

Vin said:


> VOS, I currently have WHDVR set up with 4 HR2x HD DVRs with DECA/SWM8. I also have an old R10 DirecTiVo that I want to replace with another HR2x. The R10's two tuners are being fed from a WB68 that runs in parallel with my SWM8 so if I just swap out the R10 for an HR2x and connect an ethernet cable to it that I already have at that location which runs back to my router, will it become part of my WHDVR network? Thanks.


It will become part but will also be running through your router for this, so you need [and may have] a BB DECA or CCK.


----------



## Albie

VOS, I asked this question just before Christmas and you did respond . I am sorry I have been unable to address it it until now. Your questions were 

1. Does the BB Deca have all three green LEDs? 

Yes all three are lit and the network light occasionally flashes.

2. Is the cat5/6 cable good?

Yes I have swapped out with cables working correctly on other devices with no success.

----Internet Connection Help
I am currently in need of some help getting my boxes connected to the internet.

Setup
1 HR34
3 H25s
SWM3 single wire to 8 way splitter
Each H25 connected directly to splitter
4th coax from splitter to Power Inserter out of PI to two way splitter (Green SWM label 2-210 mHz - Coax 1 from two way directly to HR-34. Coax 2 from splitter into coax port of Black Broadband DECA box. Cat 5/6 from Deca box into router.

The Deca network seems to be working fine as all three H25s see the HR34 and can play, trickplay, delete, set recordings etc.

The problem is I can't get connected to my network and thus the internet.

Automatic setup results in no internet access, result code 86-792, the HR34 showing an ip address of 169.XXX.XXX.XXX and the subnet mask set to 255.255.0.0

Advanced setup, setting the ip statically (within allowable range but well away from DHCP leases), setting the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0, and setting the default gateway and DNS server to the correct addresses still results in not connected and result code 86-792 ---


----------



## veryoldschool

Albie said:


> VOS, I asked this question just before Christmas and you did respond . I am sorry I have been unable to address it it until now. Your questions were
> 
> 1. Does the BB Deca have all three green LEDs?
> 
> Yes all three are lit and the network light occasionally flashes.
> 
> 2. Is the cat5/6 cable good?
> 
> Yes I have swapped out with cables working correctly on other devices with no success.
> 
> ----Internet Connection Help
> I am currently in need of some help getting my boxes connected to the internet.
> 
> Setup
> 1 HR34
> 3 H25s
> SWM3 single wire to 8 way splitter
> Each H25 connected directly to splitter
> 4th coax from splitter to Power Inserter out of PI to two way splitter (Green SWM label 2-210 mHz - Coax 1 from two way directly to HR-34. Coax 2 from splitter into coax port of Black Broadband DECA box. Cat 5/6 from Deca box into router.
> 
> The Deca network seems to be working fine as all three H25s see the HR34 and can play, trickplay, delete, set recordings etc.
> 
> The problem is I can't get connected to my network and thus the internet.
> 
> Automatic setup results in no internet access, result code 86-792, the HR34 showing an ip address of 169.XXX.XXX.XXX and the subnet mask set to 255.255.0.0
> 
> Advanced setup, setting the ip statically (within allowable range but well away from DHCP leases), setting the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0, and setting the default gateway and DNS server to the correct addresses still results in not connected and result code 86-792 ---


It still sounds like the BB DECA isn't talking to your router.
Since it sounds like your BB DECA is near your HR34, try moving the ethernet cable from the BB DECA over to the HR34's ethernet port.
The HR34 can also be the bridge to your home network.
If this does get everything on the internet, you could either get the BB DECA replaced, or remove the splitter and skip using the BB DECA.


----------



## Albie

Thanks! I'll give that a shot when I get home today. I was about to try that last night but wasn't sure if plugging in ethernet port would disable the WHDVR.


----------



## veryoldschool

Albie said:


> Thanks! I'll give that a shot when I get home today. I was about to try that last night but wasn't sure if plugging in ethernet port would disable the WHDVR.


It does on all but the HR34.


----------



## infounlim

Hi VOS, quick question. If all I want is to share recordings and don't have internet, and I have an H24 and an HR24 off of a new SWIM LNB all I need to do is have WWDVR activated correct? no additional hardware needed


----------



## veryoldschool

infounlim said:


> Hi VOS, quick question. If all I want is to share recordings and don't have internet, and I have an H24 and an HR24 off of a new SWIM LNB all I need to do is have WWDVR activated correct? no additional hardware needed


since these both have DECA internally, and you don't need internet for MRV, you are correct.


----------



## Vin

veryoldschool said:


> It will become part but will also be running through your router for this, so you need [and may have] a BB DECA or CCK.


Actually, I've been using the 'cheater' hook up for internet access which I haven't had any issues with. Aside from the fact that this method isn't recommended, is there a reason why it wouldn't work as a means of tying the DECA connected DVRs to the ethernet connected one I'm considering?


----------



## veryoldschool

Vin said:


> Actually, I've been using the 'cheater' hook up for internet access which I haven't had any issues with. Aside from the fact that this method isn't recommended, is there a reason why it wouldn't work as a means of tying the DECA connected DVRs to the ethernet connected one I'm considering?


"Maybe not". While if you ever need help, or have a problem, this needs to be removed, about the only other thing might be if the traffic gets too high for that one node.


----------



## five337

It is just too random to figure out. Seeing that I am not the only one; I am going to assume its the HR34 software. Sometimes if I wake the HR34 out of standby, MRV comes back. If I repeat the satellite setup, MRV always seems to comes back. Unplugging the SWiM seems to work often even though it is said not to have anything to do with it.

VOS - Thanks for taking a look at those numbers. At least I know everything is hooked up correctly.



veryoldschool said:


> I don't see anything that should be a concern in your photos.
> Rebooting the SWiM-16, shouldn't have any effect on MRV, since DECA doesn't interact with the SWiM "at all".


----------



## Albie

VOS, unplugged the BB Deca and ran a cat 5 right from the HR-34 to my router. Works perfectly now, Thanks! Now what to do with a possibly malfunctioning brand new BB Deca module.


----------



## veryoldschool

Albie said:


> VOS, unplugged the BB Deca and ran a cat 5 right from the HR-34 to my router. Works perfectly now, Thanks! Now what to do with a possibly malfunctioning brand new BB Deca module.


It does sound like the BB DECA is defective, so it might come down to how long you've had it and where it came from. 90 day warranty "should" cover it.


----------



## BobGeeX

Our daughter recently had Whole Home DVR & Cinema Connection installed and it's working great. We have one of these devices in the network to connect the Directv network directly to her Netgear router. She now asks Dad if the grandkids Wii can connect onto the Internet via the Directv network? We have a second coax run to the location and it is co-located with the Directv coax running back to the main splitter. Can a second DIRECTV DECA Broadband adapter be used to connect the Wii onto the Directv network? Thanks.


----------



## veryoldschool

BobGeeX said:


> Our daughter recently had Whole Home DVR & Cinema Connection installed and it's working great. We have one of these devices in the network to connect the Directv network directly to her Netgear router. She now asks Dad if the grandkids Wii can connect onto the Internet via the Directv network? We have a second coax run to the location and it is co-located with the Directv coax running back to the main splitter. Can a second DIRECTV DECA Broadband adapter be used to connect the Wii onto the Directv network? Thanks.


While this wasn't DirecTV's intend, adding another BB DECA and connecting another non DirecTV device will work.


----------



## Rosco

Hey VOS, you helped me go to a SWM 16 system with DECA for whole home. My question is if I want to expand it to 2-SWM 16's, do I run the cascade from SWM #1's legacy ports to SWM #2's 99's and 103's input ports and each still need their own PI. Will they all still network together or will I have 2 separate DECA systems and whole home will be divided? Also do I need another cck for the 2nd SWM . Thanks for the help.


----------



## veryoldschool

Rosco said:


> Hey VOS, you helped me go to a SWM 16 system with DECA for whole home. My question is if I want to expand it to 2-SWM 16's, do I run the cascade from SWM #1's legacy ports to SWM #2's 99's and 103's input ports and each still need their own PI. Will they all still network together or will I have 2 separate DECA systems and whole home will be divided? Also do I need another cck for the 2nd SWM . Thanks for the help.


Yes, two PIs & 2 CCKs, as each DECA cloud [network] will be independent and will have to connect through your router.


----------



## Rosco

So the router is going to be the common connection between the 2 clouds and all receivers will see each other due to each SWM having a cck in their cloud


----------



## veryoldschool

Rosco said:


> So the router is going to be the common connection between the 2 clouds and all receivers will see each other due to each SWM having a cck in their cloud


That's how it works [for others].


----------



## Rosco

Ok, thanks. Nice idea for this thread. I read alot on the forum and post very little.


----------



## HDJulie

VOS, I've got a SWiM16 installation using 9 tuners. I will soon get an HR34 & send back my HR20. That will give me 12 tuners. First, does it make any difference if I have 8 tuners on one splitter & 4 on the other, or is it better to have it as 7 & 5? Second, I went into the attic today to mark each line going into the two splitters. I'm going to have to move some of the cables around to get to the 8/4 or 7/5 tuner set up. I didn't bring any tools with me so I couldn't try undoing one of the cables but it didn't look to me to be twisted on. How do the cables connect to the splitters pictured below? I'm including the picture of the splitter for reference. I don't have multiple sets of splitters . I hope that makes sense.



veryoldschool said:


>


----------



## veryoldschool

HDJulie said:


> VOS, I've got a SWiM16 installation using 9 tuners. I will soon get an HR34 & send back my HR20. That will give me 12 tuners. First, does it make any difference if I have 8 tuners on one splitter & 4 on the other, or is it better to have it as 7 & 5? Second, I went into the attic today to mark each line going into the two splitters. I'm going to have to move some of the cables around to get to the 8/4 or 7/5 tuner set up. I didn't bring any tools with me so I couldn't try undoing one of the cables but it didn't look to me to be twisted on. How do the cables connect to the splitters pictured below? I'm including the picture of the splitter for reference. I don't have multiple sets of splitters . I hope that makes sense.


When you get to 12 tuners, five will be from the HR34, so this leaves 7 others, but one must be a receiver [only] with one tuner.
This means [or sound like it would] you could split them 6 & 6.
If so, then a 2-way on one output and a 4-way on the other output would work, right? [if not please list the receivers you are planning to keep]
This would leave the two highest SWiM channels free on both legs, along with using the smallest splitters you need. 
"Generally" this would be the best option.


----------



## HDJulie

veryoldschool said:


> When you get to 12 tuners, five will be from the HR34, so this leaves 7 others, but one must be a receiver [only] with one tuner.
> This means [or sound like it would] you could split them 6 & 6.
> If so, then a 2-way on one output and a 4-way on the other output would work, right? [if not please list the receivers you are planning to keep]
> This would leave the two highest SWiM channels free on both legs, along with using the smallest splitters you need.
> "Generally" this would be the best option.


Yes, one of these is a receiver & so I could do 6 & 6. I don't know for sure which cable goes to the receiver but it is one of only two choices (the others I know for sure where they go) so it would not be hard to figure out. So, I'd use 2 connectors on one splitter & 3 connectors on the other, right? I'm not understanding the 2-way & 4-way you mention & what are the two highest SWiM channels?


----------



## veryoldschool

HDJulie said:


> Yes, one of these is a receiver & so I could do 6 & 6. I don't know for sure which cable goes to the receiver but it is one of only two choices (the others I know for sure where they go) so it would not be hard to figure out. So, I'd use 2 connectors on one splitter & 3 connectors on the other, right? I'm not understanding the 2-way & 4-way you mention & what are the two highest SWiM channels?


Going back to the image you posted, the upper left shows three 2-way splitters, and on the upper right is one 4-way,
So "one from column A and one from column B" [a 2-way & a 4-way].
The SWiM has nine channels, where #1 is the guide data [common to all receivers/tuners] and then #2 to #9 are used for tuners. The higher the channel [frequency] the more loss between the SWiM-16 and the tuner, so the tuners get a stronger signal using the lower "channels", than when using the higher[est] channels.

Maybe explaining this a bit more would help:
The HR34 and another single tuner on one SWiM output using just a 2-way splitter, has optimized the signal levels on this side.
On the other side of the SWiM, you have 3 receivers to connect, so a 4-way would use three and a termination on the unused port.
Now if one receiver is say 50' farther from the SWiM than the other two are, "you could" use a 2-way splitter with one output going to this receiver that is farther away, and then the other output of this [first] 2-way splitter then connects to another 2-way splitter [sort of like the image on the upper left, but with one splitter missing] and then from this second splitter you connect the last two receivers that were closer to the SWiM.
The idea with all of this is to keep the input signal levels to all receivers as high as you can, which would help when rainfade starts, as the stronger the signal to start with, the less rainfade you'll have.


----------



## scubasteve

Greetings VOS

I am getting ready to move from a 12 year old SD system to an H34, 2 additional receivers, whole house dvr and direct cinema. 

New dish will be a SL5-SWM, PI-21 power supply, + SWS-4 splitter.

I am going to install a new pole mount and dish myself, pull the cable and just have the Directv installer do the dish alignment, terminate the cables, and make the grounding connections. 

My house is all steel construction (red iron for main support, light gauge for the interior walls). Every room as at least one media outlet with 2 cat 5 and 2 quad shielded RG6 home run. Cat 5 is terminated in 110 punch down blocks.

If I run epvc from the pole into the attic will they attach the ground at the attic, at the Pole or both? Just trying to figure out how much excess cable to pull.

Since this will be an H34 do I really need the BB Deca? I read in one of your earlier posts that it wasn't necessary

Cheers

Steve


----------



## veryoldschool

scubasteve said:


> Greetings VOS
> 
> I am getting ready to move from a 12 year old SD system to an H34, 2 additional receivers, whole house dvr and direct cinema.
> 
> New dish will be a SL5-SWM, PI-21 power supply, + SWS-4 splitter.
> 
> I am going to install a new pole mount and dish myself, pull the cable and just have the Directv installer do the dish alignment, terminate the cables, and make the grounding connections.
> 
> My house is all steel construction (red iron for main support, light gauge for the interior walls). Every room as at least one media outlet with 2 cat 5 and 2 quad shielded RG6 home run. Cat 5 is terminated in 110 punch down blocks.
> 
> If I run epvc from the pole into the attic will they attach the ground at the attic, at the Pole or both? Just trying to figure out how much excess cable to pull.
> 
> Since this will be an H34 do I really need the BB Deca? I read in one of your earlier posts that it wasn't necessary
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Steve


The HR34 can do the same thing as a BB DECA.
Grounding inside your home isn't a good idea, so you should have a ground point before it enters your house. "Should you need" this ground to actually discharge a large charge, you wouldn't want it to be inside.


----------



## HDJulie

veryoldschool said:


> Going back to the image you posted, the upper left shows three 2-way splitters, and on the upper right is one 4-way,
> So "one from column A and one from column B" [a 2-way & a 4-way].
> The SWiM has nine channels, where #1 is the guide data [common to all receivers/tuners] and then #2 to #9 are used for tuners. The higher the channel [frequency] the more loss between the SWiM-16 and the tuner, so the tuners get a stronger signal using the lower "channels", than when using the higher[est] channels.
> 
> Maybe explaining this a bit more would help:
> The HR34 and another single tuner on one SWiM output using just a 2-way splitter, has optimized the signal levels on this side.
> On the other side of the SWiM, you have 3 receivers to connect, so a 4-way would use three and a termination on the unused port.
> Now if one receiver is say 50' farther from the SWiM than the other two are, "you could" use a 2-way splitter with one output going to this receiver that is farther away, and then the other output of this [first] 2-way splitter then connects to another 2-way splitter [sort of like the image on the upper left, but with one splitter missing] and then from this second splitter you connect the last two receivers that were closer to the SWiM.
> The idea with all of this is to keep the input signal levels to all receivers as high as you can, which would help when rainfade starts, as the stronger the signal to start with, the less rainfade you'll have.


Sorry, I posted the picture because I had a question about the splitter itself & thought the picture would serve as a reference but I just middied the waters . I have a SWiM16 with two splitters -- the standard set up. I have all 4 DVRs & 1 Receiver already hooked up & working from a D* installation 18 months ago when Whole Home was first offered via DECA. I will soon replace one DVR with an HR34. From your pevious posts I am now comfortable with how I should set up the 2 splitters. However, when I looked at the splitters I couldn't tell how the cables go into them -- the ends didn't look threaded from what I could tell. I didn't take any tools with me when I went into the attic so I coouldn't try loosening a cable. I'll have to rearrange some of the cables to get the 6/6 tuner split & I'd like to know how to undo the cables from the splitters.


----------



## veryoldschool

HDJulie said:


> Sorry, I posted the picture because I had a question about the splitter itself & thought the picture would serve as a reference but I just middied the waters . I have a SWiM16 with two splitters -- the standard set up. I have all 4 DVRs & 1 Receiver already hooked up & working from a D* installation 18 months ago when Whole Home was first offered via DECA. I will soon replace one DVR with an HR34. From your pevious posts I am now comfortable with how I should set up the 2 splitters. However, when I looked at the splitters I couldn't tell how the cables go into them -- the ends didn't look threaded from what I could tell. I didn't take any tools with me when I went into the attic so I coouldn't try loosening a cable. I'll have to rearrange some of the cables to get the 6/6 tuner split & I'd like to know how to undo the cables from the splitters.


So it sounds like you have terminations on the splitter where cables aren't connected.
In the picture the single connector at the top is the input, which connects to the SWiM.
If you have a "standard install", you most likely have two 8-ways, which would look like the splitter in the lower right.
Looking at the 4-way in the upper right, you can see the one open port on the left, with three terminations on the ports to the right [the four on the bottom], so you'll need a 7/16 wrench to loosen and remove these where you have to connect a cable.


----------



## HDJulie

Ok, thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know . Now I'm just waiting for the HR34 to get the new guide before getting one.


----------



## veryoldschool

HDJulie said:


> Ok, thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know . Now I'm just waiting for the HR34 to get the new guide before getting one.


The other thing in the picture are the black rubber weather boots that cover the threads.


----------



## scubasteve

veryoldschool said:


> The HR34 can do the same thing as a BB DECA.
> Grounding inside your home isn't a good idea, so you should have a ground point before it enters your house. "Should you need" this ground to actually discharge a large charge, you wouldn't want it to be inside.


Thanks VOS - I will make sure the epvc is 6 inches or so shy of the eave to leave room to install the terminal block with ground. Nice to know I can save a little money and have one less point of potential failure in the home.

Cheers

Steve


----------



## veryoldschool

scubasteve said:


> Thanks VOS - I will make sure the epvc is 6 inches or so shy of the eave to leave room to install the terminal block with ground. Nice to know I can save a little money and have one less point of potential failure in the home.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Steve


Not sure where your ground point is, but I'd want mine to be closer to the "dirt". Maybe a breakout box before it runs up the wall.


----------



## scubasteve

veryoldschool said:


> Not sure where your ground point is, but I'd want mine to be closer to the "dirt". Maybe a breakout box before it runs up the wall.


That would be easy enough to add. Not sure whether code requires it right at the entry point or not (its about 14' up) But it won't hurt to have the box there and then let the installer do whats necessary for code etc

The nice thing about the steel house - the whole thing is a ground. The rebar in the slab extends out and has been grounded, and the structure attached to ground as well. Since I live in the lightning capital of the world good ground is a necessity

-s


----------



## satelliteguy5556

Hey VOS, first of all you seem to really be on top of the game. I work for Directv, and volunteered to do a presentation on the built in self test. I've experimented with it the last few weeks, but the research I've attempted online doesn't seem to get me very far. 

I just want to be a little more in-depth with my explanations. I have researched the different types of memory being tested, but have no idea what those memories affect (EEPROM, SDRAM and I'm also showing how to clear NVRAM to speed up nonresponsive DVRs). Maybe a cross reference for symptoms/problems with the different memories would help. I also know it tests the HDMI connection, but is it just testing the driver? If there is no signal to the TV could you still test it through component for example as long as HDMI is still connected? 

Sorry so long, I just want to be able to answer the tough questions that I'm sure will follow. Any help or direction to a solid source would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## veryoldschool

satelliteguy5556 said:


> Hey VOS, first of all you seem to really be on top of the game. I work for Directv, and volunteered to do a presentation on the built in self test. I've experimented with it the last few weeks, but the research I've attempted online doesn't seem to get me very far.
> 
> I just want to be a little more in-depth with my explanations. I have researched the different types of memory being tested, but have no idea what those memories affect (EEPROM, SDRAM and I'm also showing how to clear NVRAM to speed up nonresponsive DVRs). Maybe a cross reference for symptoms/problems with the different memories would help. I also know it tests the HDMI connection, but is it just testing the driver? If there is no signal to the TV could you still test it through component for example as long as HDMI is still connected?
> 
> Sorry so long, I just want to be able to answer the tough questions that I'm sure will follow. Any help or direction to a solid source would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


EEPROM is *E*lectrically *E*rasable *P*rogrammable *R*ead-*O*nly *M*emory, which is where the firmware is stored. 
SDRAM is like a PC's memory, and used for the processes.
NVRAM, is "non-volatile memory", which keeps its data when the power cord is removed. Things like your zipcode for active channels are stored here.
As for the rest of the test results, I'd need to do what you've been doing to see what the results are.
These are basically a pass or call for a replacement, since there isn't anything to fix in the field.


----------



## satelliteguy5556

Thank you so much for the quick reply. This is very helpful (as I knew it would be). I'd researched what the different types of memory were, but couldn't find anything specific that they were for. I figured the firmware had to be eprom, but I'm still curious why clearing the nv speeds up slow dvrs. Thanks again for the help. Another tech actually directed me to you.


----------



## veryoldschool

satelliteguy5556 said:


> Thank you so much for the quick reply. This is very helpful (as I knew it would be). I'd researched what the different types of memory were, but couldn't find anything specific that they were for. I figured the firmware had to be eprom, but* I'm still curious why clearing the nv speeds up slow dvrs.* Thanks again for the help. Another tech actually directed me to you.


I think we all are. :lol:
It seems some of the things like scoreguide are loading and not clearing themselves out of memory, when they should. This is just a guess on my part.


----------



## satelliteguy5556

Good theory. I will go with that lol. Better than my 'magic' theory. Thanks again VOS.


----------



## wallfishman

veryoldschool you have a router in one room hooked up to a broadband deca. in another room its a hard to get to spot for wiring there is only the sattelitte line going to a receiver deca then to an HR23 HDDVR. my question is in that room say I want to put a switch to do an XBOX, A dvd player, an internet TV etc. Can I put a 2 way splitter, one side to a receiver deca to a switch and one side to a receiver deca to the HR23. would that work oh wise one?


----------



## veryoldschool

wallfishman said:


> veryoldschool you have a router in one room hooked up to a broadband deca. in another room its a hard to get to spot for wiring there is only the sattelitte line going to a receiver deca then to an HR23 HDDVR. my question is in that room say I want to put a switch to do an XBOX, A dvd player, an internet TV etc. Can I put a 2 way splitter, one side to a receiver deca to a switch and one side to a receiver deca to the HR23. would that work oh wise one?


It would work, and of course not be a supported method, but you're also adding the splitter loss in, so the SAT/SWiM signal will be lower.
Another way [again unsupported] would be to do this:









The SAT levels stay the same, the increased traffic would be the same as using two DECAs, so it might be a better [and cheaper] option.


----------



## wallfishman

now say the same receiver in the picture is a HR24.. u could still use the receiver deca to send internet to the switch but just wouldnt need the line going from the switch to the ethernet port of the 24 right ?


----------



## veryoldschool

wallfishman said:


> now say the same receiver in the picture is a HR24.. u could still use the receiver deca to send internet to the switch but just wouldnt need the line going from the switch to the ethernet port of the 24 right ?


The 24s disable their internal DECA when the ethernet port is connected, and they can't power a white DECA, so the wireless CCK would be a better option. Don't activate the wireless function and use its ethernet port like this:









This also keeps the SAT/SWiM levels the same and lets you add an ethernet port.


----------



## DaBearsfan

Hi VOS,

I am upgrading my system to a SWM16. Currently have 2 HR20-700's and an HR21-200 and a H23-600. These are all ran off of a WB68. I have OTA diplexed to the 700's. I am also running MRV through my home Ethernet. I plan to add an HR34 in the near future so I need the additional tuners. I also am planning that after the SWM is in place to move the MRV to DECA to get it off my network. I understand that when I do that I can no longer diplex the OTA signals via the SWM

This weekend is step one beginning with upgrading to the SWM. I think I have the steps down.


Power down the receivers
Disconnect the Sat and receiver connections from the WB68
Remove the BBC's from the receivers
Install SWM16 and reconnect the Sat connections to the SWM
Add a 4 port splitter off of SWM1 and use a single coax line to each receivers
Run a coax from the PI-29 (red port) to the DC/PWR port of the SWM16
Power up the SWM
Power up the receivers
Seems pretty simple. But having your knowledgeable eyes take a look and comment would give me great comfort!

One question I had is there any restriction on the length of the coax between the PI29 and the SWM16 DC/PWR port? I have seen discussion of their being a minimum of 15' required at one point.

Another question I had was when I do move the MRV to DECA cloud does the BB DECA connection to the internet count as a tuner when I add it to the splitter off of one of the SWM ports?


----------



## veryoldschool

DaBearsfan said:


> One question I had is there any restriction on the length of the coax between the PI29 and the SWM16 DC/PWR port? I have seen discussion of their being a minimum of 15' required at one point.
> 
> Another question I had was when I do move the MRV to DECA cloud does the BB DECA connection to the internet count as a tuner when I add it to the splitter off of one of the SWM ports?


When you use the DC/PWR port there isn't a minimum distance, and the max should be fairly long [maybe over 100'], as I've used close to 100' for a SWiMLNB.

I don't know why the question of a DECA counting as a tuner keeps coming up, as DECA and SWiM have no interaction, but no they don't count as a tuner.

"Seems like" you're set for your weekend's work, and about the only thing to cause any issues would be the connectors, so check/inspect them before reusing [SOP].


----------



## DaBearsfan

Thank you VOS, I appreciate your thoughts and guidance!


----------



## TheFigurehead

I am getting around to upgrading my SWiM 8 to a SWiM16... Currently, my SWiM8 is located outside near my service entrence. I am currently using my Cat5 network for whole home connectivity. But with the SWiM16, I was hoping to just enable deca and get that DTV traffic off of my network. I was planning to just pull the 4 wires from my SL5 into my house and connect everything in my utility closet. Problem is, the DTV installer gave me virtually no extra coax outside, leaving me with a delima... is there a lesser of 2 evils here?

1) Just swap out the SWiM8 and SWiM16, leaving it outside of my house. And pull an additional coax cable from the SWiM16 to feed the 2nd leg of the switch.

2) Use coax extender/coupler outside and pull 4 additional wires into my house, placing my SWiM16 indoors.

Thoughts?


----------



## veryoldschool

TheFigurehead said:


> I am getting around to upgrading my SWiM 8 to a SWiM16... Currently, my SWiM8 is located outside near my service entrence. I am currently using my Cat5 network for whole home connectivity. But with the SWiM16, I was hoping to just enable deca and get that DTV traffic off of my network. I was planning to just pull the 4 wires from my SL5 into my house and connect everything in my utility closet. Problem is, the DTV installer gave me virtually no extra coax outside, leaving me with a delima... is there a lesser of 2 evils here?
> 
> 1) Just swap out the SWiM8 and SWiM16, leaving it outside of my house. And pull an additional coax cable from the SWiM16 to feed the 2nd leg of the switch.
> 
> 2) Use coax extender/coupler outside and pull 4 additional wires into my house, placing my SWiM16 indoors.
> 
> Thoughts?


If the location is "somewhat" sheltered, then I'd go with keeping it outside, instead of adding barrels/jumpers that are just another point for water to get in, and moving it inside.

It still may end up "six of one, half a dozen of the other". :shrug:


----------



## TheFigurehead

OK, I can move it in easy enough. One more questions, whever you have a chance to answer.

Can I run the 2nd leg of the SWM 16 directly to my HR34? Or do I need to have a green label splitter in-between?


Thanks so much for your assistance!!!


----------



## veryoldschool

TheFigurehead said:


> Can I run the 2nd leg of the SWM 16 directly to my HR34? Or do I need to have a green label splitter in-between?


It doesn't "need" a splitter to work.


----------



## jedi34

I just got Panasonic wi-fi ready TV. Rather than use a wireless network adapter, I'd rather connect it using the DECA and some kind of splitter\switch connected to the HR-21-100 which is connected to the internet AND WHDVR. I have SWIM setup.

I have a vague idea, but I'm hoping VOS can share his expertise (and some details.)


----------



## veryoldschool

jedi34 said:


> I just got Panasonic wi-fi ready TV. Rather than use a wireless network adapter, I'd rather connect it using the DECA and some kind of splitter\switch connected to the HR-21-100 which is connected to the internet AND WHDVR. I have SWIM setup.
> 
> I have a vague idea, but I'm hoping VOS can share his expertise (and some details.)


What are you trying to do here?


----------



## jedi34

The TV has an app. to stream netflix. I'd like to have it as an option. Basically, I want the TV to be able to use the same internet connection that the DVR uses.


----------



## veryoldschool

jedi34 said:


> The TV has an app. to stream netflix. I'd like to have it as an option. Basically, I want the TV to be able to use the same internet connection that the DVR uses.


It would help to know more about what you have.
I think the simplest method would be to have the TV connect to your router, if your router is wireless.
If your current setup is hardwired, and you're looking to add a DECA wireless CCK to connect the TV, then they do have a wireless access point mode, but I haven't seen any instructions for it, nor do I think it currently is a supported mode.


----------



## jedi34

I have cable broadband internet. I have a wireless router that I have a PC and a laptop connect to. The TV is connected to an HR-21-100, which is connected to the internet via a DECA, which DirecTV installed as part of the whole-home-DVR and cinema connection kit. I'm able to view UTube, and download VOD through the DVR, so it's connected to the Internet.

The TV is "internet-ready." I could buy the Panasonic wi-fi "dongle" or buy a compatible wireless nic-card, and plug it into the TV's Usb port, but I'm afraid the wireless will be flaky when streaming video. I'd rather connect the TV via an ethernet cable, but it is in a different part of the house from my modem and router. 

I'm hoping I can connect the TV to the DECA, or to split the ethernet cable off of the DECA and connect it to the TV, so it will be connected to the internet for Netflix, or some other internet streams. I guess what I'm trying to do is to split the internet connection of DECA.

I'm sorry that I'm not explaining this very well. I do appreciate your time and effort.


----------



## veryoldschool

jedi34 said:


> I have cable broadband internet. I have a wireless router that I have a PC and a laptop connect to. The TV is connected to an HR-21-100, which is connected to the internet via a DECA, which DirecTV installed as part of the whole-home-DVR and cinema connection kit. I'm able to view UTube, and download VOD through the DVR, so it's connected to the Internet.
> 
> The TV is "internet-ready." I could buy the Panasonic wi-fi "dongle" or buy a compatible wireless nic-card, and plug it into the TV's Usb port, but I'm afraid the wireless will be flaky when streaming video. I'd rather connect the TV via an ethernet cable, but it is in a different part of the house from my modem and router.
> 
> I'm hoping I can connect the TV to the DECA, or to split the ethernet cable off of the DECA and connect it to the TV, so it will be connected to the internet for Netflix, or some other internet streams. I guess what I'm trying to do is to split the internet connection of DECA.
> 
> I'm sorry that I'm not explaining this very well. I do appreciate your time and effort.


So let's first explain [for others] WiFi "ready", is a marketing term for "if you buy something else", it can work.

Does the TV have an ethernet port?
If so, then post #93 has a picture of what you're wanting to do. Add a [unsupported] switch and connect the TV and the DVR. "done"


----------



## jedi34

I just looked at post #93 again. So I just need to buy a 100mb switch? I realize it's unsupported. Once again, I *do* appreciate your time, expertise and effort in helping me.

I know just a enough about DirecTV to be dangerous. I lurk on this forum every day. When the DirecTV sales guys approach me at my local Sam's club, I feel like I appreciate DirecTV even more than they do. I use media share, WHDVR, TV app's all because I learned about them on this forum.


----------



## veryoldschool

jedi34 said:


> So I just need to buy a 100mb switch?


"Yep"


----------



## phoneman06

Is there any reason he couldn't use the second ethernet port on the STB? That is how I connected my blu-ray player.


----------



## veryoldschool

phoneman06 said:


> Is there any reason he couldn't use the second ethernet port on the STB? That is how I connected my blu-ray player.


"Sort of", in that it does work [as you're using], but since the second port isn't the same as a two port switch, it's controlled with drivers and uses CPU cycles. This means it loads the CPU a bit more than intended.
I also know [from engineering] it isn't a preferred method and think it isn't supported either.
A switch is so cheap these days and has the controller chip that the DVR doesn't, that everyone should be getting away from using the second port, as the newer DVRs no longer even have them.


----------



## phoneman06

Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Draconis

Hey VOS, I have a question I’ve been curious about for a while. 

When you use a barrel connector to extend a coaxial cable how much signal loss does it introduce to the line?


----------



## veryoldschool

Draconis said:


> Hey VOS, I have a question I've been curious about for a while.
> 
> When you use a barrel connector to extend a coaxial cable how much signal loss does it introduce to the line?


If the cable connectors are in good shape, the loss is on the order of a tenth "or so" dB for the barrel.
If the dielectric of the coax is recessed at the connector it might go up a bit, but it shouldn't be "a dB". 
It is sort of hard to measure such low losses as variations just mating the connectors can vary a tenth or 2 when using a network analyzer.


----------



## Draconis

Ok, interesting. I've always avoided barrels like the plague.


----------



## veryoldschool

Draconis said:


> Ok, interesting. I've always avoided barrels like the plague.


Any "extra" connection, is just another point of failure, so "plague" or not, I try to never have a connector that I don't need.


----------



## Draconis

veryoldschool said:



> Any "extra" connection, is just another point of failure, so "plague" or not, I try to never have a connector that I don't need.


Words to live by...


----------



## TheFigurehead

veryoldschool said:


> It doesn't "need" a splitter to work.


Success! I actually got this setup working today. I ended up using 'barrels' to connect the exhisting coax from the dish to coax running into the SWM 16. After that, I used the middle connector on the SWM 16 for power, my HR34 directly wired to SWM port 1-8 and SWM port 9-16 going to a green label 2 port splitter, and then 1 wire to my HR24 and 1 wire to my HR20.

I am using the HR34 as a bridge to my internal DSL network, and all 3 boxes are able to use VOD, TVApps, iPad app, etc...

I was able to remove a bunch of coax cables and 2 of my network (Cat5) cables... making the system a lot easy to manage.

I suppose DirecTV still has me listed as Unsupported Whole Home, but I don't think I really care.

Thanks to you, VOS, for answering my questions! 
Also, thanks to NDole for hooking me up with the hardware.

A final thanks to DBSTalk for providing a great community forum!


----------



## veryoldschool

TheFigurehead said:


> Success! I actually got this setup working today. I ended up using 'barrels' to connect the exhisting coax from the dish to coax running into the SWM 16. After that, I used the middle connector on the SWM 16 for power, my HR34 directly wired to *SWM port 1-8 and SWM port 9-16 *going to a green label 2 port splitter, and then 1 wire to my HR24 and 1 wire to my HR20.
> 
> I am using the HR34 as a bridge to my internal DSL network, and all 3 boxes are able to use VOD, TVApps, iPad app, etc...
> 
> I was able to remove a bunch of coax cables and 2 of my network (Cat5) cables... making the system a lot easy to manage.
> 
> I suppose DirecTV still has me listed as Unsupported Whole Home, but I don't think I really care.
> 
> Thanks to you, VOS, for answering my questions!
> Also, thanks to NDole for hooking me up with the hardware.
> 
> A final thanks to DBSTalk for providing a great community forum!


Just to clarify [for anyone else reading this too]:

There is a SWM 1 and SWM 2 output, but there isn't 1-8 and 9-16.

Each output is exactly the same:
Channel 1 carries the guide data, and 2-9 are used by tuners.
The "other output", is exactly the same, as neither section of the SWiM has any interaction with the other section.


----------



## veryoldschool

veryoldschool said:


> I don't know why the question of a DECA counting as a tuner keeps coming up, as DECA and SWiM have no interaction, but no they don't count as a tuner.


I got another PM and have seen some posts asking about this, so I want to post again:

DECAs don't count as "tuners" on any SWiM.

SWiM channels are for SAT tuners, and have nothing to do with how many DECAs are being used.


----------



## paragon

I am getting upgraded next weekend and after the upgrade, will have an SWM16 along with an HR34, HR24, HR21, and a broadband DECA. Can you give some advice on what the best configuration would be to minimize splitter loss? This is especially important because the coax in my walls is all RG59 and replacing it is a non-starter (I have been using MRV over this coax with an SWM8 and 4-way splitter with no problems).

I was thinking one of these two configs:

1)
Leg 1: Power Inserter -> 4-way split -> HR24, HR21, Broadband DECA
Leg 2: HR34 only

2)
Leg 1: Power Inserter -> 2-way split -> HR24, HR21
Leg 2: 2-way split, HR34, Broadband DECA


----------



## veryoldschool

paragon said:


> I am getting upgraded next weekend and after the upgrade, will have an SWM16 along with an HR34, HR24, HR21, and a broadband DECA. Can you give some advice on what the best configuration would be to minimize splitter loss? This is especially important because the coax in my walls is all RG59 and replacing it is a non-starter (I have been using MRV over this coax with an SWM8 and 4-way splitter with no problems).
> 
> I was thinking one of these two configs:
> 
> 1)
> Leg 1: Power Inserter -> 4-way split -> HR24, HR21, Broadband DECA
> Leg 2: HR34 only
> 
> 2)
> Leg 1: Power Inserter -> 2-way split -> HR24, HR21
> Leg 2: 2-way split, HR34, Broadband DECA


#2 looks to have an edge over #1, because of only using a 2-way, on each leg.
This would be if all the coax is the same.


----------



## paragon

veryoldschool said:


> #2 looks to have an edge over #1, because of only using a 2-way, on each leg.
> This would be if all the coax is the same.


Actually there is one difference on the coax. Coax in the wall to all 3 receivers is RG59. Coax to the broadband DECA is RG6. Forgot about that.


----------



## usnret

VOS - I have a remote control problem. Background. Have a HR24 in living room and HR22 upstairs. Friday had a HR34 installed beside the 24. All 3 are MRV'd and a SWM16 was installed when 34 put in. All receivers and MRV is working great and I am keeping the 24 for awhile to watch recorded programs (and make sure the 34 is working properly).
I now have 3 remotes configured for the 24 and 34 (I don't know how) as follows:
1. RC65 - turns on LGTV and both the 24 and 34. Connects 24, via HDMI, to TV.
2. RC64R - turns on LGTV and both the 24 and 34. Connects 34, via HDMI to TV.
3. RC65RX - turns on LGTV.
What I would like is for 2 of the remotes to just control the 34 and TV and 1 remote control just the 24 and TV.
As an aside, I have to use the TV remote to change HDMI inputs between the 34 and 24, but thats no problem. Would just like to get the remote problem resolved before my "better half" figures out there is a problem :-]
Tks for any assistance.


----------



## veryoldschool

usnret said:


> VOS - I have a remote control problem. Background. Have a HR24 in living room and HR22 upstairs. Friday had a HR34 installed beside the 24. All 3 are MRV'd and a SWM16 was installed when 34 put in. All receivers and MRV is working great and I am keeping the 24 for awhile to watch recorded programs (and make sure the 34 is working properly).
> I now have 3 remotes configured for the 24 and 34 (I don't know how) as follows:
> 1. RC65 - turns on LGTV and both the 24 and 34. Connects 24, via HDMI, to TV.
> 2. RC64*R* - turns on LGTV and both the 24 and 34. Connects 34, via HDMI to TV.
> 3. RC65*R*X - turns on LGTV.
> What I would like is for *2 of the remotes to just control the 34 and TV* and *1 remote control just the 24 and TV*.
> As an aside, I have to use the TV remote to change HDMI inputs between the 34 and 24, but thats no problem. Would just like to get the remote problem resolved before my "better half" figures out there is a problem :-]
> Tks for any assistance.


This seems like it should be fairly easy:
2 remotes have RF, and one doesn't.
Changing the HR34 remote setup to RF, with either RC64R[x], by following the on screen steps/prompts. Copy these while going through them, and then do the same steps to the other remote [you don't need to be on the same screen in the HR34, because it was set the first time, so you're simply setting the remote to match the second time].
Leave the RC65 alone as it only has IR, and leave the HR24 alone so it stays in IR.


----------



## usnret

The RC65RX (#3) doesn't turn on either of the receivers, just the TV, so I can't do a thing with it.


----------



## veryoldschool

usnret said:


> The RC65RX (#3) doesn't turn on either of the receivers, just the TV, so I can't do a thing with it.


These are the steps:
1. dtv
2. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
3. enter 0 0 0 0 1
4. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
5. enter 9 6 1
6. press CH UP
7. enter the last 6 digits of the receivers ID #, found on a sticker in the access card compartment
8. press SELECT


----------



## usnret

Did as instructed above on the 65 and 65RX. When I hit select after inputting the receiver nr's, there was a "boink". Now they both just control only the on/off of the TV and neither receiver. I must be missing something somewhere and am 71 so maybe that has something to do with it. Am "saving" the RC64R as that is the only remote that I can do anything with (34 and 24 and TV).


----------



## veryoldschool

usnret said:


> Did as instructed above on the 65 and 65RX. When I hit select after inputting the receiver nr's, there was a "boink". Now they both just control only the on/off of the TV and neither receiver. I must be missing something somewhere and am 71 so maybe that has something to do with it. Am "saving" the RC64R as that is the only remote that I can do anything with (34 and 24 and TV).


The RC65 is an IR only remote, so don't try to program it for RF.
This is the one that should stay with the 24.

The RC65RX [as the RC64R is too] has the option of using RF.
Not sure where you are now, in programing the HR34 & HR24 and your remotes.
If you can't control the DVR, use the front panel buttons to navigate to the setup menu and then to remote menu.
The options should be either change to RF [it is still in IR mode] or change to IR [it's in RF mode]

Once you figure out which mode the receiver is in,
select the right steps here to program the remote:

[for RF]
1. dtv <-slider at the top above the power button
2. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
3. enter 0 0 0 0 1
4. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
5. enter 9 6 1
6. press CH UP
7. enter the last 6 digits of the receivers ID #, found on a sticker in the access card compartment
8. press SELECT

[for IR]
1. DTV <-slider at the top
2. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
3. enter 0 0 0 0 1
4. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
5. enter 9 6 1
6. press CH down
7. press SELECT

You need to watch the LED on the remote blink

*
Let's take a step back here*

You've programed the HR24 for RF it seems and the RC65 doesn't support that.
Use the front panel controls to reprogram "the receiver" back to IR.
Now the RC65 should control the HR24. Set the RC65 remote DOWN and leave it alone.

Move to the HR34. 
Does the RC64R control it?
If so, set the RC64R aside for the moment and pick up the RC65RX.
Follow these steps on "just the remote" [don't do anything to the HR34 receiver]
1. dtv
2. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
3. enter 0 0 0 0 1
4. press and hold MUTE & SELECT for two blinks
5. enter 9 6 1
6. press CH UP
7. enter the last 6 digits of the receivers ID #, found on a sticker in the access card compartment
8. press SELECT

This should now have the RC64R coded to the HR34.


----------



## usnret

OK. Got the 65 to control the 24 (chnl down did it). Only problem left is that when I Hit the off button on either the 65 or 64R, both receivers turn off. When I hit the on button both receivers turn on. Is there any way to fix this?
And thanks for bearing with me VOS. You must have been JOB in another life.


----------



## veryoldschool

usnret said:


> OK. Got the 65 to control the 24 (chnl down did it). Only problem left is that when I Hit the off button on either the 65 or 64R, both receivers turn off. When I hit the on button both receivers turn on. Is there any way to fix this?
> And thanks for bearing with me VOS. You must have been JOB in another life.


Now it sounds like you have both DVRs set to IR.
Leave the RC65 & the HR24 alone.

Does the RC64R besides turning on the HR34, also control the other functions?
If so go into it's menu again and change both the receiver and the RC64R to RF, by [this time] following the on screen steps.

*It just dawned on me [DUH]*
When you have both DVRs set to IR, "and then" you try to change the HR34 to RF, without blocking the IR pickup on the HR24, you're changing both DVRs.

On the HR24 just to the right of the power/DirecTV logo, is the IR eye/detector. You'll need to block/mask this before trying to change the HR34 to RF.


----------



## usnret

That was the ticket. It's just working on the 34 now. Tks VOS (JOB). You have been very, very helpful.


----------



## veryoldschool

usnret said:


> That was the ticket. It's just working on the 34 now. Tks VOS (JOB). You have been very, very helpful.


I was slow of the uptake since I don't start with more than one receiver in IR mode. The first thing I do is change to RF, so when the next receiver needs setting up, it's the only one in IR mode. [DUH]


----------



## jayerndl

I just had a HR34 installed yesterday and was converted to SWM in the process. I also have (2) HR20-700s (9 tuners total) so I have a SWM16. Everything seems to work but I'm not sure if it's hooked up "right". I don't have a good diagramming tool to show the setup so please bare with me while I try to describe how things are connected. (BTW, what do you guys use for a diagramming tool?)

1. I have 4 cables coming from the LNB connected to the bottom left 4 ports of the SWM16.

2. On the power inserter -the "power to swm" port is connected to the "swm1/pwr" port of the swm16 and the "signal to IRD" port to is connected to the input of a 1x4 splitter.

3. The "swm2" port on the swm16 is connected directly to the HR34.

4. On the 1x4 splitter - 2 ports are connected to the HR20s (with a DECA) and 1 port is connected to a broadband DECA which is connected to my router via Cat5e and the 4th port is not used.

I have looked at several diagrams and don't recall DVRs being connected directly to the swm. Is there a "better" way to connect my 3 DVRs or should I just leave it alone? Thanks for your help.

Jay


----------



## veryoldschool

jayerndl said:


> I just had a HR34 installed yesterday and was converted to SWM in the process. I also have (2) HR20-700s (9 tuners total) so I have a SWM16. Everything seems to work but I'm not sure if it's hooked up "right". I don't have a good diagramming tool to show the setup so please bare with me while I try to describe how things are connected. (BTW, what do you guys use for a diagramming tool?)
> 
> 1. I have 4 cables coming from the LNB connected to the bottom left 4 ports of the SWM16.
> 
> 2. On the power inserter -the "power to swm" port is connected to the "swm1/pwr" port of the swm16 and the "signal to IRD" port to is connected to the input of a 1x4 splitter.
> 
> 3. The "swm2" port on the swm16 is connected directly to the HR34.
> 
> 4. On the 1x4 splitter - 2 ports are connected to the HR20s (with a DECA) and 1 port is connected to a broadband DECA which is connected to my router via Cat5e and the 4th port is not used.
> 
> I have looked at several diagrams and don't recall DVRs being connected directly to the swm. Is there a "better" way to connect my 3 DVRs or should I just leave it alone? Thanks for your help.
> 
> Jay



four coax is how it's done.
"If there was" something to check/change it would be the distance of the coax between the PI and the SWiM. This might need to be 15'. Another way is to move the PI to the PWR port [between the two SWiM ports], and connect the splitter to SWiM1
HR34 straight to SWiM2 is fine.
4-way splitter is fine and gives you the three outputs you need. Make sure the forth has a termination.
What you have works, and I might swap the PI around, but if it had the 15' of coax, I might not too, as the difference isn't much, if anything.


----------



## jayerndl

veryoldschool said:


> "If there was" something to check/change it would be the distance of the coax between the PI and the SWiM. This might need to be 15'. Another way is to move the PI to the PWR port [between the two SWiM ports], and connect the splitter to SWiM1
> What you have works, and I might swap the PI around, but if it had the 15' of coax, I might not too, as the difference isn't much, if anything.


Thanks VOS. Since the coax between the PI and the SWiM was very short I switched the cables as you suggested and everything seems to work ok. There is now nothing connected to the "signal to IRD" port on the PI. Does this need to be terminated?

I have one other question. I have a nearby ethernet switch to both the wiring closet where the SWiM is and the location of my HR34. Would you recommend using my current internet config (using the broadband DECA) or connecting to the internet with my HR34 used as a bridge and disconnecting the BB DECA. Thanks again.

Jay


----------



## veryoldschool

jayerndl said:


> Thanks VOS. Since the coax between the PI and the SWiM was very short I switched the cables as you suggested and everything seems to work ok. There is now nothing connected to the "signal to IRD" port on the PI. Does this need to be terminated?
> 
> I have one other question. I have a nearby ethernet switch to both the wiring closet where the SWiM is and the location of my HR34. Would you recommend using my current internet config (using the broadband DECA) or connecting to the internet with my HR34 used as a bridge and disconnecting the BB DECA. Thanks again.
> 
> Jay


The PI question is easy, since it's now connected to a DC [only] connector, the IRD port doesn't matter if it's terminated, since there isn't any RF.
Your other question isn't as easy. 
I would tend to leave/keep the BB DECA, but my reasoning really isn't, but instead more of an unsupportable preference.
Some HR34s have had problems being the bridge, while others haven't, and using it as one is a supported method. :shrug:


----------



## jayerndl

veryoldschool said:


> The PI question is easy, since it's now connected to a DC [only] connector, the IRD port doesn't matter if it's terminated, since there isn't any RF.
> Your other question isn't as easy.
> I would tend to leave/keep the BB DECA, but my reasoning really isn't, but instead more of an unsupportable preference.
> Some HR34s have had problems being the bridge, while others haven't, and using it as one is a supported method. :shrug:


Thanks. I think I'll just leave things the way they are.


----------



## dsw2112

VOS,

I was working on a friend's setup, and noticed something I "think" is different (or at least different than I'm remembering it :lol: )

Under the SWM signal strengths screen I'm seeing a DVR use two SWM channels *always*. For example; the setup contained two HR's and an H receiver. When viewing the SWM signal strengths screen from *only *the "H" receiver there are four "0's" shown (two per DVR.) This is without the DVR's recording or in doubleplay.

I've also tested this on my setup, and verified that regardless of the time of day the DVR's are always "grabbing" two channels (initially I thought they might just be downloading a D* "push".) Has that always been the case? I thought I remembered having to record, or utilize doubleplay to have a DVR grab that 2nd channel in the signal strength screen.


----------



## veryoldschool

dsw2112 said:


> VOS,
> 
> I was working on a friend's setup, and noticed something I "think" is different (or at least different than I'm remembering it :lol: )
> 
> Under the SWM signal strengths screen I'm seeing a DVR use two SWM channels *always*. For example; the setup contained two HR's and an H receiver. When viewing the SWM signal strengths screen from *only *the "H" receiver there are four "0's" shown (two per DVR.) This is without the DVR's recording or in doubleplay.
> 
> I've also tested this on my setup, and verified that regardless of the time of day the DVR's are always "grabbing" two channels (initially I thought they might just be downloading a D* "push".) Has that always been the case? I thought I remembered having to record, or utilize doubleplay to have a DVR grab that 2nd channel in the signal strength screen.


What you're seeing has been there for a long time.
They may not always show the two zeros after a reset, but they always seem to be consecutive channels, so the DVR must be telling the SWiM it wants two and the SWiM assigns two, unless of course the DVR is in single tuner mode.


----------



## dsw2112

veryoldschool said:


> What you're seeing has been there for a long time.
> They may not always show the two zeros after a reset, but they always seem to be consecutive channels, so the DVR must be telling the SWiM it wants two and the SWiM assigns two, unless of course the DVR is in single tuner mode.


Good to know. I did notice that neither setup's DVR's had consecutive channels though. DVR A would have 2 and 4, DVR B would be 3 and 5, etc...


----------



## Phil T

VOS, you may have just answered this above, but I am getting old and may not have followed it correctly. 

My new HR34 was installed yesterday and they included the SWiM16 and new LNB. They left my 8way splitter and everything including MRV and Internet works fine on all three HR-DVR's.

The power supply for the SWiM16 is coming into the same connector that the HR34 is connected to, and not into the center connecter on the SWiM16 that is marked power. The cable run (HR34-powersupply-SWiM16) is very short (4 feet to the HR34 and maybe 6 feet to the SWiM16). Is this something to be concerned about?


----------



## veryoldschool

Phil T said:


> VOS, you may have just answered this above, but I am getting old and may not have followed it correctly.
> 
> My new HR34 was installed yesterday and they included the SWiM16 and new LNB. They left my 8way splitter and everything including MRV and Internet works fine on all three HR-DVR's.
> 
> The power supply for the SWiM16 is coming into the same connector that the HR34 is connected to, and not into the center connecter on the SWiM16 that is marked power. The cable run (HR34-powersupply-SWiM16) is very short (4 feet to the HR34 and maybe 6 feet to the SWiM16). Is this something to be concerned about?


So the HR34 is connected to SWM #1, which also can/does power the SWiM-16.
"If it ain't broke", I would leave it alone, but with the PI close to the SWiM & HR34, I wouldn't have set it up this way. 
With the SWM8 & HR24, these short distances have caused problems, but they haven't been "everybody will have problems".


----------



## veryoldschool

dsw2112 said:


> Good to know. I did notice that neither setup's DVR's had consecutive channels though. DVR A would have 2 and 4, DVR B would be 3 and 5, etc...


That's odd. 
I wonder if things will change if everything is powered down and back up.


----------



## Phil T

Thanks. I will probably fix the PI issue when our weather gets better. 

BTW I attached a photo of my MRV numbers. Let me know if you see a problem.


----------



## veryoldschool

Phil T said:


> Thanks. I will probably fix the PI issue when our weather gets better.
> 
> BTW I attached a photo of my MRV numbers. Let me know if you see a problem.


I don't see a problem with those, nor will you get a system error with those.


----------



## Phil T

Thanks again! Ready to enjoy the HR34, hopefully for several years.


----------



## keyoctave

VOS,

First, thank you for taking time in answering so many questions for those of us on this forum!

My problem is with Whole-Home service.

Today, I had my system upgraded to an HR34, moving an HR22 to another room, and de-activating an HR20.

The tech installed a new LNB (from a 5 LNB to a single 3 LNB one), added a SWiM16, re-peaked the dish and connected the 4 cables from the dish to the SWiM16. One of the two coax cables used by the HR22 carries only the PI (laying behind the unit on the floor) to the SWiM16 middle power input (about 30 feet of cable). The other carries the signal from the SWiM2 output off the SWiM16 back to the HR22. That cable is hooked up to a white DECA box which is hooked to the #1 input on the back of the HR22. All three led's are green on the DECA box. The HR34 uses one coax cable from the SWiM1 output off the SWiM16 (about 90 feet) to the back of the unit.

When I go to 'status' under Whole-Home, it shows authorized but also says 'no networked DVRs found'. I have been on the phone multiple times with tech support. Have re-started the receivers many times, did a complete reset on both and still have this problem. I even cancelled the Whole House service and later had it turned back on. I have no internet connected to either receiver. There are recordings in both DVR's. They are set properly to allow access, share, etc. 

I do have the wireless CCK, and earlier did have the internet hooked up. The CCK was hooked up to the HR22 going through the DECA box and VOD was active on both receivers. They both still said 'no networked DVRs found' with the CCK in place. Tech support said to remove it to rule out any possible interference.

Everything else works great. All DVR's record (my wife had 4 channels recording at one time on 'her' HR34). So, do you have any ideas as to what the problem is?


----------



## veryoldschool

keyoctave said:


> VOS,
> 
> First, thank you for taking time in answering so many questions for those of us on this forum!
> 
> My problem is with Whole-Home service.
> 
> Today, I had my system upgraded to an HR34, moving an HR22 to another room, and de-activating an HR20.
> 
> The tech installed a new LNB (from a 5 LNB to a single 3 LNB one), added a SWiM16, re-peaked the dish and connected the 4 cables from the dish to the SWiM16. One of the two coax cables used by the HR22 carries only the PI (laying behind the unit on the floor) to the SWiM16 middle power input (about 30 feet of cable). The other carries the signal from the SWiM2 output off the SWiM16 back to the HR22. That cable is hooked up to a white DECA box which is hooked to the #1 input on the back of the HR22. All three led's are green on the DECA box. The HR34 uses one coax cable from the SWiM1 output off the SWiM16 (about 90 feet) to the back of the unit.
> 
> When I go to 'status' under Whole-Home, it shows authorized but also says 'no networked DVRs found'. I have been on the phone multiple times with tech support. Have re-started the receivers many times, did a complete reset on both and still have this problem. I even cancelled the Whole House service and later had it turned back on. I have no internet connected to either receiver. There are recordings in both DVR's. They are set properly to allow access, share, etc.
> 
> I do have the wireless CCK, and earlier did have the internet hooked up. The CCK was hooked up to the HR22 going through the DECA box and VOD was active on both receivers. They both still said 'no networked DVRs found' with the CCK in place. Tech support said to remove it to rule out any possible interference.
> 
> Everything else works great. All DVR's record (my wife had 4 channels recording at one time on 'her' HR34). So, do you have any ideas as to what the problem is?


You need to check the IP addresses for one thing, since you have mixed with and without the CCK.
With it, the IPs should be coming from the router, but without the CCK, they be the 169.xxx internal ones. These take longer to find other receivers than the one controlled by your router.
Which ever way you have it set now, you might reset the network defaults and reboot each receiver.


----------



## BopMan

VOS, Do you know if there's a way to get DirecTV2PC to work with a HR34 or HR24? The HR22 still works fine except I get "remote playback is in use by another viewer" when the HR22 is being viewed remotely from the HR34 or HR24. I've been searching for the last hour with no luck on this subject because I thought I read that someone got it working.


----------



## veryoldschool

BopMan said:


> VOS, Do you know if there's a way to get DirecTV2PC to work with a HR34 or HR24? The HR22 still works fine except I get "remote playback is in use by another viewer" when the HR22 is being viewed remotely from the HR34 or HR24. I've been searching for the last hour with no luck on this subject because I thought I read that someone got it working.


The HR34 doesn't yet work with DirecTV2PC, but the HR24 does.
I had to reboot my router once when a DVR wouldn't work.
You can't stream more than one from anything but the HR34, so if you're using MRV, you can't use DirecTV2PC from the same DVR.


----------



## BopMan

veryoldschool said:


> The HR34 doesn't yet work with DirecTV2PC, but the HR24 does.
> I had to reboot my router once when a DVR wouldn't work.
> You can't stream more than one from anything but the HR34, so if you're using MRV, you can't use DirecTV2PC from the same DVR.


I'll give the reboot a shot later when I can reboot the router. It hasn't been rebooted since the new HRs were installed. Thanks.


----------



## BopMan

veryoldschool said:


> The HR34 doesn't yet work with DirecTV2PC, but the HR24 does.
> I had to reboot my router once when a DVR wouldn't work.
> You can't stream more than one from anything but the HR34, so if you're using MRV, you can't use DirecTV2PC from the same DVR.





BopMan said:


> I'll give the reboot a shot later when I can reboot the router. It hasn't been rebooted since the new HRs were installed. Thanks.


DirecTV2PC working now with HR24... thanks VOS. Hopefully viewing the HR34 listing with DirecTV2PC will get fixed soon... most of my recording are being done to that box.


----------



## keyoctave

veryoldschool said:


> You need to check the IP addresses for one thing, since you have mixed with and without the CCK.
> With it, the IPs should be coming from the router, but without the CCK, they be the 169.xxx internal ones. These take longer to find other receivers than the one controlled by your router.
> Which ever way you have it set now, you might reset the network defaults and reboot each receiver.


Got it working. Thank you, VOS!


----------



## HDSC

VOS:

I have researched this here and I do have conflicts with the INFO from other posters. I think a ground is a ground whether its 15' or 30' away. But I am asking you to help clarify grounding protocol. I want to make sure I am installing this new setup safely. I am probably dangerous because I used to buy the old single lnb 18 inch dish and thought I was an installer.

1. I just purchased a new SWM with a 3LNB slimline dish to replace my brothers old setup.
2. The old ground system was for a 4 cable-port SL5 and it was connected at least 12 years ago and is almost totally gone. Cables dry rotting. etc.

A. I ran new RG6 cable to the new slimline dish and SL3. 
B. I powered the new Power Inverter up along with the IRD to the HR24 via 4way splitter. I have a green label 8 way, but we don't need it and I read your signal loss post earlier.

I stated the above to ask this question!

What grounding options should I implement? 
What is the best option for completing that task? 
If it was yours how would you handle it? 

Thanks!

HDSC


----------



## veryoldschool

HDSC said:


> VOS:
> 
> I have researched this here and I do have conflicts with the INFO from other posters. I think a ground is a ground whether its 15' or 30' away. But I am asking you to help clarify grounding protocol. I want to make sure I am installing this new setup safely. I am probably dangerous because I used to buy the old single lnb 18 inch dish and thought I was an installer.
> 
> 1. I just purchased a new SWM with a 3LNB slimline dish to replace my brothers old setup.
> 2. The old ground system was for a 4 cable-port SL5 and it was connected at least 12 years ago and is almost totally gone. Cables dry rotting. etc.
> 
> A. I ran new RG6 cable to the new slimline dish and SL3.
> B. I powered the new Power Inverter up along with the IRD to the HR24 via 4way splitter. I have a green label 8 way, but we don't need it and I read your signal loss post earlier.
> 
> I stated the above to ask this question!
> 
> What grounding options should I implement?
> What is the best option for completing that task?
> If it was yours how would you handle it?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> HDSC


You just want me to get in trouble don't you? !rolling

Grounding varies by local jurisdiction, since it's covered by local code.

[hope that's enough legal disclaimer].

While a "ground is a ground", how much resistance a connection has to ground will vary.
Copper wire has resistance [in a few inches] that can be measured with a very good meter.
The difference between 15' and 30', might be overcome to some degree by using a larger gauge wire.

Another thing is what are you trying to "ground"?
Static buildup and normal house power, will be grounded through reasonable size wire and close to the house ground point. [vague enough? :lol:]

Now if you're asking about a lightning strike, it's a whole other problem.
In this case I would have the ground before the coax comes into the house, and have the ground wire/rod has large and as close as possible.
If this means a second ground rod, then it has to be connected [large wire again] to the house ground point/rod.

"Electrically" this will look something like this:










And you want to keep all the resistance as low as possible.

Even this is only going to give you "the best chance" of limiting any damage.


----------



## HDSC

VOS: 
I didn't think of local codes when I asked. But I respect your non answer answer while addressing that issue!

So is grounding an issue, I should not worry too much about and concentrate on the Deca's and HR34 that are dancing in my head?

The original install did have a grounding block for the coax in and out. It is almost corroded away though.

Not trying to make you confirm any code. Just asking is it a big issue or way down on the totem pole?


----------



## veryoldschool

HDSC said:


> VOS:
> I didn't think of local codes when I asked. But I respect your non answer answer while addressing that issue!
> 
> So is grounding an issue, I should not worry too much about and concentrate on the Deca's and HR34 that are dancing in my head?
> 
> The original install did have a grounding block for the coax in and out. It is almost corroded away though.
> 
> Not trying to make you confirm any code. Just asking is it a big issue or way down on the totem pole?


I hate to know how many installs have no grounds [my mover's connection was one], so if yours is rotting away, I'd look to have it repaired/replaced.
Even if you just copied what was there before, it's better than nothing.
"I've heard" an ungrounded dish can cause "popping" on the audio as the static buildup discharges.
I'd start sorting out how you want the DECA going, since you may have more impact on that that improving the ground.


----------



## HDSC

Thanks - I will duplicate the original grounding with new components.


----------



## Drew2k

Hey VOS ... here's a simple one: Can I cascade a SWM8 off of a WB68, either short-term or long-term? 

Setup: My mother's house has a Slimline dish with a WB68 tethered to it on the roof, and 8 lines running from the WB68 with four going to the second floor and the other four lines to the basement. I want to take the four lines in the basement and put them into a SWM8. There will no more receivers on the 2nd floor so the plan is to have all receivers on the first floor connected to the SWM8 in the basement. (When it gets warm out I would eliminate the WB68 at the dish and run directly to the SWM8, but I'm not climbing on the roof in February!)

Thanks VOS.


----------



## veryoldschool

Drew2k said:


> Hey VOS ... here's a simple one: Can I cascade a SWM8 off of a WB68, either short-term or long-term?
> 
> Setup: My mother's house has a Slimline dish with a WB68 tethered to it on the roof, and 8 lines running from the WB68 with four going to the second floor and the other four lines to the basement. I want to take the four lines in the basement and put them into a SWM8. There will no more receivers on the 2nd floor so the plan is to have all receivers on the first floor connected to the SWM8 in the basement. (When it gets warm out I would eliminate the WB68 at the dish and run directly to the SWM8, but I'm not climbing on the roof in February!)
> 
> Thanks VOS.


"Can you"? it will work. 
I don't think DirecTV supports this, but old Zinwell pdfs showed a WB68 feeding two of their WB616s


----------



## Drew2k

veryoldschool said:


> "Can you"? it will work.
> I don't think DirecTV supports this, but old Zinwell pdfs showed a WB68 feeding two of their WB616s


Thanks VOS. I'll try it out this weekend.


----------



## sigma1914

VOS, you taught me before that you can connect a receiver off the WCCK. Will the THR also work from that coax? I know it won't do the MRV stuff, but how will it integrate the internet? I "assume" it'll look like this...


----------



## veryoldschool

sigma1914 said:


> VOS, you taught me before that you can connect a receiver off the WCCK. Will the THR also work from that coax? I know it won't do the MRV stuff, but how will it integrate the internet? I "assume" it'll look like this...


"Assuming" the THR22 is "merely" a HR22 in disguise, it should power the white DECA and work as you've posted.


----------



## Drew2k

Drew2k said:


> Hey VOS ... here's a simple one: Can I cascade a SWM8 off of a WB68, either short-term or long-term?
> 
> Setup: My mother's house has a Slimline dish with a WB68 tethered to it on the roof, and 8 lines running from the WB68 with four going to the second floor and the other four lines to the basement. I want to take the four lines in the basement and put them into a SWM8. There will no more receivers on the 2nd floor so the plan is to have all receivers on the first floor connected to the SWM8 in the basement. (When it gets warm out I would eliminate the WB68 at the dish and run directly to the SWM8, but I'm not climbing on the roof in February!)
> 
> Thanks VOS.





veryoldschool said:


> "Can you"? it will work.
> I don't think DirecTV supports this, but old Zinwell pdfs showed a WB68 feeding two of their WB616s


VOS - Thanks for your response.

I got everything working with the SWM8 cascaded off of the WB68, with a CCK in the mix.

After redoing satellite setup on each receiver I had to choose "Recheck SWM" on three of the receivers, but not the others.

And on one DVR I absolutely could not get the DECA to work ... even after swapping the DECA with another one working off of another DVR. Finally I realized the problem was I dealing with an HR20-100!!!! Once I reconnected it with a BSF it worked just fine.

The moral? Always know the model of the DVR you are configuring!


----------



## Juanus

I was reading an old thread and I found these steps to do a special scan.

1. Depress reset button next to access card.
2. When "Almost There" message appears on screen: press down arrow and
record button ON DVR (not the remote) simultaneously until message appears on screen then release.
3. Scan could take up to ninety minutes and again, the only items deleted will be those with problems.

Does this procedure still work?


----------



## veryoldschool

Juanus said:


> I was reading an old thread and I found these steps to do a special scan.
> 
> 1. Depress reset button next to access card.
> 2. When "Almost There" message appears on screen: press down arrow and
> record button ON DVR (not the remote) simultaneously until message appears on screen then release.
> 3. Scan could take up to ninety minutes and again, the only items deleted will be those with problems.
> 
> Does this procedure still work?


It didn't recently when I tried it with a HR24. I'm not sure if it has to do with the touch screen "buttons" of the 24s or whether the new software has removed this option.


----------



## Juanus

Actually, I just tried it on my HR23-700 and it worked. The scan took about 2 hours. I don't know if it found anything and fixed it because I left the room. but at 80% it hadn't found anything. I guess I could have tried it before I asked. Tomorrow I will do it on my bedroom DVR, it has a larger drive connected to it and my wife would have a cow if she couldn't watch TV. so I will do it when she is at work.

[EDIT]
I just did it on my HR21-700 and it worked also. I have a 1tb drive connected to it and it took about 5 hours. It found and corrected 6 errors when it was at 60% but then I left the room and it was finished when I came back. I hope this helps some of the freezing issues I have been having.


----------



## Davenlr

VOS, got a question...

On an HR24, whole home is sent out via DECA, but if you plug in ethernet, whole home is then routed to the ethernet port.

On an HR34, since both are active, does it send the whole home out on BOTH the coax and the ethernet port? IOW, if you did not have a DECA network, and had, say, an unsupported ethernet network for whole home, will you actually get whole home from the ethernet port on the HR34, or just internet connectivity? Since the coax deca is always active (I believe), would you have to block the DECA frequencies from the DECA to use ethernet for whole home?

Im not planning on doing anything of the sort, just curious, as I cant picture how it would work if it was connected both ways...


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> VOS, got a question...
> 
> On an HR24, whole home is sent out via DECA, but if you plug in ethernet, whole home is then routed to the ethernet port.
> 
> On an HR34, since both are active, does it send the whole home out on BOTH the coax and the ethernet port? IOW, if you did not have a DECA network, and had, say, an unsupported ethernet network for whole home, will you actually get whole home from the ethernet port on the HR34, or just internet connectivity? Since the coax deca is always active (I believe), would you have to block the DECA frequencies from the DECA to use ethernet for whole home?
> 
> Im not planning on doing anything of the sort, just curious, as I cant picture how it would work if it was connected both ways...


It's a fair question, but not sure how to prove an answer.
Yes the DECA doesn't get disabled if an ethernet cable is connected, which is unlike the 24s.
I see no reason MRV wouldn't work over ethernet, but it would be hard to know what would be happening to the active DECA, since you'd need to have a DECA to monitor it. "Would figure" the 34 will output through both, but if the MAC addresses/IPs are directing traffic, maybe with nothing on the DECA, nothing more the the base DECA signal is going out.


----------



## balboadave

I'm in an odd situation, and I'm hope this falls into your purview. I have to move out of my house for a few months (due to extensive renovations) into a place without DirecTV. But almost everything I watch is available on VOD. Can I bring my HR-24s to the new place, plug them each into the internet, and use VOD? They're currently connected as whole home, but they won't be in the new place, and my subscription will remain active.


----------



## veryoldschool

balboadave said:


> I'm in an odd situation, and I'm hope this falls into your purview. I have to move out of my house for a few months (due to extensive renovations) into a place without DirecTV. But almost everything I watch is available on VOD. Can I bring my HR-24s to the new place, plug them each into the internet, and use VOD? They're currently connected as whole home, but they won't be in the new place, and my subscription will remain active.


DirecTV receivers won't work without a SAT feed. They use/need this to verify the account is active, and which programs are in your package.
It sounds like you'll need to put your account on suspension until you can connect to the dish.


----------



## balboadave

veryoldschool said:


> DirecTV receivers won't work without a SAT feed. They use/need this to verify the account is active, and which programs are in your package.
> It sounds like you'll need to put your account on suspension until you can connect to the dish.


Thanks for your reply. Armed with that, I was able to ask DirecTV an informed question. According to the tech I just talked with, it's normally automatic from the satellite. But if that's not available, there is a 30 day timeout for active accounts, and when that expires, I can authorize it online or over the phone. Everything else about VOD is internet based, so they think it should work without a satellite. At least I can watch my recorded programs. It worth a try anyways, and I'll report back once I know one way or another.


----------



## veryoldschool

balboadave said:


> Thanks for your reply. Armed with that, I was able to ask DirecTV an informed question. According to the tech I just talked with, it's normally automatic from the satellite. But if that's not available, there is a 30 day timeout for active accounts, and when that expires, I can authorize it online or over the phone. Everything else about VOD is internet based, so they think it should work without a satellite. At least I can watch my recorded programs. It worth a try anyways, and I'll report back once I know one way or another.


Please do, as the next question would be: "how is the receiver going to get authorized without the SAT feed?" 
The DirecTV system may say it is, but the receiver needs to know it too.


----------



## balboadave

veryoldschool said:


> Please do, as the next question would be: "how is the receiver going to get authorized without the SAT feed?"
> The DirecTV system may say it is, but the receiver needs to know it too.


 There's lots of reasons to lose a satellite feed, and you can't expect the receiver to lose authorization as soon as the signal is lost. So there is a timeout period of some length. The rep maintains that is 30 days, and it seems like your position is it's considerably less. I'll know more in a few days.


----------



## veryoldschool

balboadave said:


> There's lots of reasons to lose a satellite feed, and you can't expect the receiver to lose authorization as soon as the signal is lost. So there is a timeout period of some length. The rep maintains that is 30 days, and it seems like your position is it's considerably less. I'll know more in a few days.


Bad storms have give users problems, and losing power has made it worse.
There is a time factor which was added a few years back, so....
Once this [which may be as little as 72 hours] has been reached, the receiver needs to get updated.
The question is: normally this comes through the SAT feed, but has there been a change so it can come through a phone line, or the internet? :shrug:
We can "call home" to order PPV [through the net or phone], but I doubt they can "call us" through the same.


----------



## balboadave

veryoldschool said:


> Bad storms have give users problems, and losing power has made it worse.
> There is a time factor which was added a few years back, so....
> Once this [which may be as little as 72 hours] has been reached, the receiver needs to get updated.
> The question is: normally this comes through the SAT feed, but has there been a change so it can come through a phone line, or the internet? :shrug:
> We can "call home" to order PPV [through the net or phone], but I doubt they can "call us" through the same.


I see where I may have created some confusion. I'm not talking about PPV, just all the free stuff on VOD.


----------



## veryoldschool

balboadave said:


> I see where I may have created some confusion. I'm not talking about PPV, just all the free stuff on VOD.


I don't think I'm confused.
The tech may have been, but you'll need to try and see.


----------



## carl6

The key point in this is that in order for the receiver to know it has been reauthorized, it gets that via the satellite feed. You can reauthorize all you want on-line or by having a CSR do it, but that signal or command (or whatever you want to call it) is not going to actually arrive at your receiver without a satellite signal.

We have seen reports here from various customers who have lost satellite signal for varying periods of time and had to reauthorize their receivers. So it could be as little as a day or two, or as much as a month, before you run into an issue. But you will run into an issue at some point in time, and the only way to recover after that is to have a satellite signal.


----------



## Groundhog45

If the receivers are connected to the router, perhaps when you try to access a VOD program, it verifies the active status of the receiver online. Just a WAG but it will be interesting to see how this works out.

VOS, how do I get into the diagnostic menu on an H25? I want to do that now when I have more time since I suspect the reason the receiver is starting that program, it may have something starting to fail.


----------



## veryoldschool

Groundhog45 said:


> VOS, how do I get into the diagnostic menu on an H25?


Like the others, when you see running self test as it's rebooting, press select and you should enter the menu.


----------



## Groundhog45

veryoldschool said:


> Like the others, when you see running self test as it's rebooting, press select and you should enter the menu.


Thanks. I wasn't sure about which button. I remember something about the down arrow and record (on DVRs) but wasn't sure what that one did. It's running now.

Edit: It passed all of the tests but the cpu is running at 134 degrees. Seems high for a box out in the open.


----------



## Juanus

I seem to remember someone saying that when you turn the DVR off, it would do some type of "maintenance". Do we know what kind of jobs the DVR is performing when in that state? (If anything) Is it like a Defrag or something like that?


----------



## veryoldschool

Juanus said:


> I seem to remember someone saying that when you turn the DVR off, it would do some type of "maintenance". Do we know what kind of jobs the DVR is performing when in that state? (If anything) Is it like a Defrag or something like that?


It's been called "housekeeping", but we don't know much more. There isn't any Defragging, but it may be doing things like sorting through the guide data and comparing to the series links and building the to do list.


----------



## Scott in FL

Hi VOS. Can you help with this one? I have an HR20-100 with the built in OTA tuner which I use to receive my locals. About a month ago our CBS affiliate, WINK-TV, changed from RF channel 9 to channel 50. 

I repeated the antenna setup and all was well... for about a week. I lost WINK and had to repeat my antenna setup again. All was well... for about a week. It seems to "hold" for about a week, and then loses WINK again until I repeat antenna setup. All of my other locals are fine.

Could the OTA guide received off the satellite have the old channel information, and my receiver keeps "correcting" the channel when I run the antenna setup? Others have told me that the HR20-100 does not scan locals.

Thanks.


----------



## veryoldschool

Scott in FL said:


> Hi VOS. Can you help with this one? I have an HR20-100 with the built in OTA tuner which I use to receive my locals. About a month ago our CBS affiliate, WINK-TV, changed from RF channel 9 to channel 50.
> 
> I repeated the antenna setup and all was well... for about a week. I lost WINK and had to repeat my antenna setup again. All was well... for about a week. It seems to "hold" for about a week, and then loses WINK again until I repeat antenna setup. All of my other locals are fine.
> 
> Could the OTA guide received off the satellite have the old channel information, and my receiver keeps "correcting" the channel when I run the antenna setup? *Others have told me that the HR20-100 does not scan* locals.
> 
> Thanks.


That is true. These all are based on the database coming from DirecTV.
Not sure how to or what to do to connect this.
It might sort out over time, because the move/change was resent.
It might be worth a call to DirecTV [the CSR isn't going the do much but forward this issue], so they can look at the guide data stream and see where the error is.


----------



## Scott in FL

Thanks. I'll give it some more time, and then call.


----------



## Draconis

Well, I've got another question for VOS. 

I heard a rumor that the SAT-IN ports on the H/HR 24’s do not have enough power to run an external DECA. Can you confirm or deny this? 

Also, does this apply to the HR34? 

I’m just curious about it for whenever the MoCA 2.0 DECA’s come out. (And I"m not holding my breath for when they do).


----------



## veryoldschool

Draconis said:


> Well, I've got another question for VOS.
> 
> I heard a rumor that the SAT-IN ports on the H/HR 24's do not have enough power to run an external DECA. Can you confirm or deny this?
> 
> Also, does this apply to the HR34?
> 
> I'm just curious about it for whenever the MoCA 2.0 DECA's come out. (And I"m not holding my breath for when they do).


I don't think there's any DC on the SAT 1 or 2 ports, when it's in SWiM mode.
I do know they can't power a white DECA, as it's been tried for troubleshooting.
They do have DC when configured for a legacy system, and they use BBCs.
MoCa 1.1 has enough bandwidth for the intended use, so "Sources tell me" 2.0 isn't even being looked at.


----------



## Draconis

Thank you.


----------



## inkahauts

"veryoldschool" said:


> I don't think there's any DC on the SAT 1 or 2 ports, when it's in SWiM mode.
> I do know they can't power a white DECA, as it's been tried for troubleshooting.
> They do have DC when configured for a legacy system, and they use BBCs.
> MoCa 1.1 has enough bandwidth for the intended use, so "Sources tell me" 2.0 isn't even being looked at.


Isn't 2.0 moving into additional spectrum that is occupied by swim frequencies? Or is it just some compression scheme that fits in the same space as the current moca?


----------



## veryoldschool

inkahauts said:


> Isn't 2.0 moving into additional spectrum that is occupied by swim frequencies? Or is it just some compression scheme that fits in the same space as the current moca?


2.0 using 100 MHz, where 1.1 is only 50 MHz, but should DirecTV go with 2.0, the current splitters & BSF have the bandwidth to work with them, and it wouldn't get near the SWiM range, so it's doable.


----------



## John Walls

I have 7 DVR's with WHDVR connected over a wired ethernet network.

I'm not understanding why the HR34 requires SWM;

Why can't it serve other DVR's over wired erhernet?


----------



## veryoldschool

John Walls said:


> I have 7 DVR's with WHDVR connected over a wired ethernet network.
> 
> I'm not understanding why the HR34 requires SWM;
> 
> Why can't it serve other DVR's over wired erhernet?


It can and does.
It requires SWiM because there is a single SAT input which feeds 5 tuners.


----------



## usnret

VOS - my setup is a 34 connected to one side of a 16, a HR22 and 24 connected to the other side of the 16. The 22 has a White DECA in the back and the 24 has a PI in the back. Once all the "troubles" get sorted out with the 34 SW, I plan on returning the 22 to D and putting the 24 in it's place upstairs. 
My question is: I would like to put the PI downstairs in the basement and hook it straight to the 16, so is there any sort of shut down sequence and/or unplugging of reciever(s) when I move the PI?


----------



## veryoldschool

usnret said:


> My question is: I would like to put the PI downstairs in the basement and hook it straight to the 16, so is there any sort of shut down sequence and/or unplugging of reciever(s) when I move the PI?


If my own experience shows anything, it's that it doesn't matter very much.
The only thing I pay attention to is the PI so I don't sent voltage where I shouldn't. :eek2:
When you're done moving things, if a receiver has problems, rebooting should resolve it.
In a worst case, doing a full system rebooting would start with the SWiM, then the CCK/BB DECA and then each receiver, where you allow each a few mins before doing the next.


----------



## usnret

Thank you sir...


----------



## gphvid

I have an odd problem that maybe you can help me with. I have 2 HR20-100 DVRs and one HR21-100 HD receiver all that are connected to each other through MRV but not through the method that DirecTV installs. I have one DVR wired to a Cisco E1200 wifi router and the other DVR and HD receiver connected through gaming bridges. For quite some time, this setup worked very well and with really no problems. But just recently, the DirecTV DVRs and receiver have been dropping their internet connections while still being able to communicate with each other through wifi MRV. I would reset the router and run the network setup to get the internet connected up and everything would be fine. And then when I call up an app or something that would require the internet connection, I would find the receiver does not detect the internet. Yet it still plays programs from the other DVR. And all my other computers and wifi devices work flawlessly with no dropped connections.

Any ideas? We had a rainstorm go through our area all day today but I would think that wouldn't cause the problem...?


----------



## veryoldschool

gphvid said:


> I have an odd problem that maybe you can help me with. I have 2 HR20-100 DVRs and one H21-100 HD receiver all that are connected to each other through MRV but not through the method that DirecTV installs. I have one DVR wired to a Cisco E1200 wifi router and the other DVR and HD receiver connected through gaming bridges. For quite some time, this setup worked very well and with really no problems. But just recently, the DirecTV DVRs and receiver have been dropping their internet connections while still being able to communicate with each other through wifi MRV. I would reset the router and run the network setup to get the internet connected up and everything would be fine. And then when I call up an app or something that would require the internet connection, I would find the receiver does not detect the internet. Yet it still plays programs from the other DVR. And all my other computers and wifi devices work flawlessly with no dropped connections.
> 
> Any ideas? We had a rainstorm go through our area all day today but I would think that wouldn't cause the problem...?


Yeah, the rainstorm shouldn't have had any effect.
It does sound like the router is the cause, since the WiFi is still working for MRV.
It isn't clear if all the receivers are losing internet, or just those connected via WiFi.
Your router should have a factory reset button, which would be the next thing I'd suggest. Of course make sure you have the factory password before pressing the reset, as this step clears everything.


----------



## gphvid

veryoldschool said:


> Yeah, the rainstorm shouldn't have had any effect.
> It does sound like the router is the cause, since the WiFi is still working for MRV.
> It isn't clear if all the receivers are losing internet, or just those connected via WiFi.
> Your router should have a factory reset button, which would be the next thing I'd suggest. Of course make sure you have the factory password before pressing the reset, as this step clears everything.


I wonder if it is possibly a heat issue with the router. THis version of the router is a flat version, meaning it lays flat on the surface. Other versions are vertically sitting which suggests that air flow is better for them than on flat. The router is a little over a year old, I wonder if it is starting to fail. FWIW, We notice video stuttering that was not there before as well, which I experienced with a Belkin router I had a year ago. That stopped when I bought the Cisco. And now it is happening again. So I wonder if I should think about replacing. ALso, what's a good one that is reliable and long lasting?


----------



## veryoldschool

gphvid said:


> I wonder if it is possibly a heat issue with the router. THis version of the router is a flat version, meaning it lays flat on the surface. Other versions are vertically sitting which suggests that air flow is better for them than on flat. The router is a little over a year old, I wonder if it is starting to fail. FWIW, We notice video stuttering that was not there before as well, which I experienced with a Belkin router I had a year ago. That stopped when I bought the Cisco. And now it is happening again. So I wonder if I should think about replacing. ALso, what's a good one that is reliable and long lasting?


I'm sure you could turn it up on its side, if you think heat might be the problem.
WiFi can be a cause of stuttering, so that might not be the router failing.
You really need to look at the power levels, channel being used, and what other WiFi networks nearby are using.
I posted some on this here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2975399&postcount=250


----------



## gphvid

veryoldschool said:


> I'm sure you could turn it up on its side, if you think heat might be the problem.
> WiFi can be a cause of stuttering, so that might not be the router failing.
> You really need to look at the power levels, channel being used, and what other WiFi networks nearby are using.
> I posted some on this here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2975399&postcount=250


That inSSIDer program is really helpful. It shows my network competing with another one whose signal strength is alot lower but still there.
Their's peaks between -85 to -90 amplitude and mine between -50 and -60, if I read the scale correctly. Does this mean that I should try a channel change? And if I do the router, do I need to set the bridges as well or do they automatically find the right channel?


----------



## veryoldschool

gphvid said:


> That inSSIDer program is really helpful. It shows my network competing with another one whose signal strength is alot lower but still there.
> Their's peaks between -85 to -90 amplitude and mine between -50 and -60, if I read the scale correctly. Does this mean that I should try a channel change?  And if I do the router, do I need to set the bridges as well or do they automatically find the right channel?


when I change channels in the router, the clients have always adjusted to the change without needing to do anything.
25-30 dB difference should be enough I would think.


----------



## bflora

I have a question for VOS. I am thinking about getting an HR34. I bought a SWM16 and plan to hook up one SWM branch to the HR34 and the other SWM branch to a 2-way splitter with one leg to an HR20-700 and the other leg to an HR24-500. Do I need to block the DECA signals coming from the HR34 and the HR24? I have seen your comments on using a diplexer to filter out the DECA frequencies at the receivers and could use this approach. Plan B would be to hook the HR20 and the HR24 to the legacy ports with bbc's. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I don't want any interaction between any of the receivers (ie. no mrv or DECA capabilities).


----------



## veryoldschool

bflora said:


> I have a question for VOS. I am thinking about getting an HR34. I bought a SWM16 and plan to hook up one SWM branch to the HR34 and the other SWM branch to a 2-way splitter with one leg to an HR20-700 and the other leg to an HR24-500. Do I need to block the DECA signals coming from the HR34 and the HR24? I have seen your comments on using a diplexer to filter out the DECA frequencies at the receivers and could use this approach. Plan B would be to hook the HR20 and the HR24 to the legacy ports with bbc's. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I don't want any interaction between any of the receivers (ie. no mrv or DECA capabilities).


It would seem [since I'm in favor of DECA] that adding a white DECA to the HR20-700 would be the best option. You can connect an ethernet to the HR34 and have internet access for all.

Now if you're wanting to go all ethernet, then it might be as simple as adding a BSF to the HR20.
Because the HR34 is on one side of the SWiM-16, the crossover loss of the SWiM-16 can work to your advantage, allowing enough attenuation for the active HR34 DECA. The HR24 will deactivate but since it's still there, it blocks the signal from the tuners, which would be why the HR20 would need a BSF.


----------



## bflora

My goal is to just have 3 independent receivers with no Deca or ethernet. If I use a diplexer backward on the hr34 and the hr24 with the ota port terminated, would that filter out any deca signals and solve my problem?


----------



## veryoldschool

bflora said:


> My goal is to just have 3 independent receivers with no Deca or ethernet. If I use a diplexer backward on the hr34 and the hr24 with the ota port terminated, would that filter out any deca signals and solve my problem?


Yes. Connecting it in the combining mode, where OTA would be "added", and using a termination, will send the DECA signal into the load. Do use a good diplexer for this as those with poor rejection may not work as well.


----------



## bflora

What frequency does the DECA use?


----------



## veryoldschool

bflora said:


> What frequency does the DECA use?


525-575 MHz.


----------



## DLP2008

Another question for VOS:
I'm thinking about connecting my HR22 to my home network for using on demand and directv2pc. I don't have the cinema connection kit (yet) - I'm entertaining the idea of running an ethernet cable to it from the modem, both because I believe it would be cheaper, and I'm afraid a wifi connection would be slower. The problem is that the modem/router is in a different room. Would it be okay to use a long ethernet cable run (~50 feet) from the cable to the receiver (under the floor/house)? I didn't know if having a run that long would degrade the connection between the modem and receiver.


----------



## veryoldschool

DLP2008 said:


> Another question for VOS:
> I'm thinking about connecting my HR22 to my home network for using on demand and directv2pc. I don't have the cinema connection kit (yet) - I'm entertaining the idea of running an ethernet cable to it from the modem, both because I believe it would be cheaper, and I'm afraid a wifi connection would be slower. The problem is that the modem/router is in a different room. Would it be okay to use a long ethernet cable run (~50 feet) from the cable to the receiver (under the floor/house)? I didn't know if having a run that long would degrade the connection between the modem and receiver.


Not all ethernet cables are equal.
With short ones you can get away with more than long ones.
I have a 50' cat5e that works like a champ.


----------



## DLP2008

Hmm, makes sense. Thanks. I have been visiting this site more than anything else lately..i've become more interested in the process behind satellite TV than the actual programming


----------



## inkahauts

Remind me... Can the hr34 power a deca? I know there is no reason to ever do that but curious....


----------



## ckl93

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could help me with this issue. My current setup has a powered deca unit (deca1mr-01) getting ethernet from a cable router and going into a swm8 splitter. The swm8 goes up to 2 H25 receivers and 1 HR24 receiver and I am able to get multi-room viewing with my on-demand recordings. My power inserter is connected to my HR24 and to the power port of the swm8 splitter. 
I was looking to get ethernet connections out near each of the receivers to get connections to blu-ray players, xbox, a wireless hub and TV. When I hook up additional deca units to the receivers, the deca units have no power and my powered deca unit in the basement has the c-link light start flashing yellow. I realize the HR24 and H25 receivers have internal deca but does it matter? Also, would the solution be to move my power inserter to my basement where the satellite line comes in? Thanks for helping me out!


----------



## veryoldschool

ckl93 said:


> Hello,
> I was wondering if anyone could help me with this issue. My current setup has a powered deca unit (deca1mr-01) getting ethernet from a cable router and going into a swm8 splitter. The swm8 goes up to 2 H25 receivers and 1 HR24 receiver and I am able to get multi-room viewing with my on-demand recordings. My power inserter is connected to my HR24 and to the power port of the swm8 splitter.
> I was looking to get ethernet connections out near each of the receivers to get connections to blu-ray players, xbox, a wireless hub and TV. When I hook up additional deca units to the receivers, the deca units have no power and my powered deca unit in the basement has the c-link light start flashing yellow. I realize the HR24 and H25 receivers have internal deca but does it matter? Also, would the solution be to move my power inserter to my basement where the satellite line comes in? Thanks for helping me out!


All of the receivers with internal DECAs don't power an external, so that is a no go.
Sounds like what you're looking for would be an unsupported configuration, where you either bring another coax from the splitter, or add a 2-way splitter, or if the PI output isn't being used, connect another black DECA like you're using to connect to your router. This will give you a point of access to add other devices to the ethernet port. 
If you have the white DECA, but not another black DECA, you could get the 18 volt PI to power the DECA also.

Remember this isn't supported by DirecTV, but has worked for others just fine.


----------



## ckl93

Thanks VOS! It worked! I ended up splitting the coax before it went into the receiver. I had the bb deca box that directv supplied and hooked it up. I had ethernet coming out. So does the bb deca box do the same thing as a powered white deca box? I have another entertainment area that needs internet and I already have a white deca box. So can I do the same thing again only using a white deca box? That way I only have to by the power cord and not the bb deca box.
Thanks for your help!


----------



## veryoldschool

ckl93 said:


> Thanks VOS! It worked! I ended up splitting the coax before it went into the receiver. I had the bb deca box that directv supplied and hooked it up. I had ethernet coming out. So does the bb deca box do the same thing as a powered white deca box? I have another entertainment area that needs internet and I already have a white deca box. So can I do the same thing again only using a white deca box? That way I only have to by the power cord and not the bb deca box.
> Thanks for your help!


The white DECA and a PI was used before the black BB DECA was released, so yes it will do the same thing.


----------



## bflora

A new question for VOS. I ordered an HR34 and am going to use it with an AM21N. Should I hook the HR34 up and get it authorized before I hook up the AM21N or can I hook up the AM21N to the HR34 before getting authorization without a problem?


----------



## veryoldschool

bflora said:


> A new question for VOS. I ordered an HR34 and am going to use it with an AM21N. Should I hook the HR34 up and get it authorized before I hook up the AM21N or can I hook up the AM21N to the HR34 before getting authorization without a problem?


Good question, but I'm not sure I have an answer, "other than", nothing will work before authorization.
I'm sure you could connect the AM-21, but doubt you'll be able to run the setup for it.


----------



## gphvid

veryoldschool said:


> when I change channels in the router, the clients have always adjusted to the change without needing to do anything.
> 25-30 dB difference should be enough I would think.


I reset my router using the reset button and then positioned it vertically to try to increase airflow. I also went in and moved the wifi setting off automatic and changed the channel to 2 while also setting for auto 20-40 MHz. This seemed to make the wifi computers browse a little quicker while also holding the internet connection better and resolving (at least for the moment) some video stuttering when running video through it with wifi MRV. InSSIDer showed me that where the router was originally with the channels on ch 6, there were about three other networks nearby that were using the same channels. Plus, my neighbor was using ch 8. So I set to ch 3 and will see how long it lasts.

ANd I found a firmware upgrade on the Cisco Linksys site which also may help things a bit...

Thanks again.


----------



## Rtm

VOS when terminating RG-6 Quad Shield does the white foam pice need to come almost all the way through the barrel or is it fine if their is air around the wire before it inserts into something? Do i need to remove foil or not or can a layer of foil and maybe one of the layer of braids go inside the barrel?


----------



## veryoldschool

Rtm said:


> VOS when terminating RG-6 Quad Shield does the white foam pice need to come almost all the way through the barrel or is it fine if their is air around the wire before it inserts into something? Do i need to remove foil or not or can a layer of foil and maybe one of the layer of braids go inside the barrel?


All coax should have the dielectric flush with the mating plane of the connector.
The foil should also reach this same plane.
The braid should also reach to the end.
RG6 QS require the right connectors because of the larger outer diameter of the added foil and braid layers.

By not extending the dielectric and the foil/braid, to the end, you are changing the impedance for this short length of the line. While it may still work, it may also cause problems at some frequency, since the impact of this impedance change depends on where in the wavelength it occurs.


----------



## KSbugeater

VOS, I tried some searches but could not find an answer to...
"Can I daisy-chain a HR20-100 via CAT-5 that does not have its own DECA to a HR21-200 that does have a DECA?"
I have a SWM8 connected to 4 SWM units already: HR24, HR22, HR21, and HR20-700. So I have my 8 tuners used up. I used to have an HR10 hooked up to 2 legacy ports in the same room as the HR21; since it was not networkable, the 8 tuner limit wasn't an issue. I was thinking that I could save a DECA by connecting the HR20-100 directly to the 2nd CAT-5 port on the HR21, and while the HR20 would not be able to tune HD channels (except OTA) it could play shows recorded on the other 4 units. Is this possible? I do have a few routers lying around unused that could be injected if necessary. Thanks for your help and sorry if this has already been asked.


----------



## Rtm

Thank you for the quick reply yes I think my current ones are jacked up that I am using on two receivers I did them myself I've just dealt with it for a while. I am attempting to hook up the Comcast (to my TV with the coax jack next the one used for DirecTV) to see if they offer the CW in QAM since I have basic cable with the internet

You get the copper at the end then pull the black cover off a little further more and then just pull back the first layer of braids? You can leave the foil, braids, foil interacts with the dielectric as long as they are cut off and not touching the copper core at all?

I think I have the right tools and you can see my epic fail.


----------



## veryoldschool

KSbugeater said:


> VOS, I tried some searches but could not find an answer to...
> "Can I daisy-chain a HR20-100 via CAT-5 that does not have its own DECA to a HR21-200 that does have a DECA?"
> I have a SWM8 connected to 4 SWM units already: HR24, HR22, HR21, and HR20-700. So I have my 8 tuners used up. I used to have an HR10 hooked up to 2 legacy ports in the same room as the HR21; since it was not networkable, the 8 tuner limit wasn't an issue. I was thinking that I could save a DECA by connecting the HR20-100 directly to the 2nd CAT-5 port on the HR21, and while the HR20 would not be able to tune HD channels (except OTA) it could play shows recorded on the other 4 units. Is this possible? I do have a few routers lying around unused that could be injected if necessary. Thanks for your help and sorry if this has already been asked.


I see what you're wanting to do, but the weak point is used the second ethernet port of the HR21.
Instead use an external switch, where the DECA connects to it, the HR21, and the HR20. While still not a supported method, it stays away from the known issues of using the second port of the DVRs [which as since been removed from newer models].


----------



## KSbugeater

veryoldschool said:


> Instead use an external switch, where the DECA connects to it, the HR21, and the HR20.


Again, sorry for this dumb question: can I substitute a wireless router for the switch? Obviously I will disable the radio. And what IP addresses should I use? I'm currently using static IPs in the DECA cloud.

Let me also say you *rock*, VOS.


----------



## veryoldschool

Rtm said:


> Thank you for the quick reply yes I think my current ones are jacked up that I am using on two receivers I did them myself I've just dealt with it for a while. I am attempting to hook up the Comcast (to my TV with the coax jack next the one used for DirecTV) to see if they offer the CW in QAM since I have basic cable with the internet


While not the "be all end all":





He isn't dealing with quad shielding, and does fold over the braid, but it still contacts the connector well and doesn't protrude out the back of the connector.

Do you see the tool he's using that I didn't see with yours?

For a look at Quad shielded coax, my friend at Solidsignal has put together a fairly good article: http://forums.solidsignal.com/conte...otout-part-5-Solid-Signal-Quad-Shielded-Cable

With a bit more googling, here's one for Quad shielding:


----------



## veryoldschool

KSbugeater said:


> Again, sorry for this dumb question: can I substitute a wireless router for the switch? Obviously I will disable the radio. And what IP addresses should I use? I'm currently using static IPs in the DECA cloud.
> 
> Let me also say you *rock*, VOS.


You might be able to use a router "but" only the switch part of it, but you'll need to turn off/disable so much of the router.

Check Newegg as they've had switches for around $10, which just make things so easy.


----------



## KSbugeater

If anyone cares... I thought using my dumbed-down router for a switch was not going to work. I tried many different IP addresses and gateways. Finally, I started at simple and checked connections. For some reason, I plugged the CAT5 into the BOTTOM port on the HR20-100. When I switched it to the top port, it worked fine. I now have 2 receivers hooked up to the DECA cloud via one DECA unit and a router. (Don't tell anyone, but I also have a blu-ray player connected via that router)

I discovered this AFTER ordering a switch from NewEgg. Oh well.


----------



## skinnyJM

1st-Thank You VOS for all of the advice and assistance you provide to the members of DBStalk. I have learned a lot from your posts.
2nd-The first image (mine) is what I was thinking of when converting to SWiM w/WHDVR using 8 way splitter. However after seeing the second image, from one of your posts, I am wondering if this method might be better (no terminated ports) to reduce rainfade and create an overall better WHDVR experience. What are your thoughts and/or suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## veryoldschool

skinnyJM said:


> 1st-Thank You VOS for all of the advice and assistance you provide to the members of DBStalk. I have learned a lot from your posts.
> 2nd-The first image (mine) is what I was thinking of when converting to SWiM w/WHDVR using 8 way splitter. However after seeing the second image, from one of your posts, I am wondering if this method might be better (no terminated ports) to reduce rainfade and create an overall better WHDVR experience. What are your thoughts and/or suggestions? Thanks.


The second has the advantage of less loss "except for" where you'd use the second splitter.

Now if you had the wireless CCK, which doesn't need to be wireless, as it has a ethernet port, you could skip the second splitter like I do:










The wireless CCK is the only one with a pass through option.


----------



## skinnyJM

Thanks for the quick reply. I modified my layout to show what I think you are suggesting based on my equipment (I have the 2 R22 now and plan on getting the HR24 & H24), No AC outlet in attic (where splitter would be located) so the PI would need to be near a DVR. So there is no real disadvantage (loss/PQ, etc) to running a receiver connection through a PI or WCCK? Thanks again for your help.


----------



## veryoldschool

skinnyJM said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I modified my layout to show what I think you are suggesting based on my equipment (I have the 2 R22 now and plan on getting the HR24 & H24), No AC outlet in attic (where splitter would be located) so the PI would need to be near a DVR. So there is no real disadvantage (loss/PQ, etc) to running a receiver connection through a PI or WCCK? Thanks again for your help.


Since you can't put a splitter between the PI and the receivers, I might move the PI to where the CCK is.
If you check the installation image thread, there was a bulletin about issues with the PI connected too close to a HR24.
That was why [not that I did have problems] I moved mine so the splitter was between the PI and my HR24.
Now the CCK has some attenuation [by design] to the DECA signal, so this should act the same way.
So: splitter #1 output to PI to CCK to receiver.


----------



## skinnyJM

OK gotcha (I think), Would the PI issue apply to the R22 as well? I would like to keep the PI in the Living Rm area. (HR24 would be in bedroom). Thanks again.
Also, I noticed a few posts back, you state to NOT fold back the braid when using compression connectors. I've been folding it back, but if you are saying not to fold it back, then I'm gonna start doing it that way.


----------



## veryoldschool

skinnyJM said:


> OK gotcha (I think), Would the PI issue apply to the R22 as well? I would like to keep the PI in the Living Rm area. (HR24 would be in bedroom). Thanks again.
> Also, I noticed a few posts back, you state to NOT fold back the braid when using compression connectors. I've been folding it back, but if you are saying not to fold it back, then I'm gonna start doing it that way.


That layout looks fine.
As for folding back the braid, I don't, but in the videos I found/posted they do. The point is that the braid is in good contact with the connector. If this gets done with it folded then fine.


----------



## skinnyJM

OK, Thanks again VOS. I truly do appreciate your assistance.


----------



## Davenlr

Hate to ask this, but I cant remember. Just had my H25 turned back on for the summer. Have component hooked to the HTPC and HDMI to a Sharp (all modes except 1080p supported, all checked except 1080p).

The box displays fine via the HTPC in all resolutions, but the HDMI connection give me "Incompatible Video Signal received" on the Sharp when anything except 480i is selected. 

Does the H25 disable the HD resolutions on the HDMI cable when a component dongle is plugged in? Ive never tried using this one with both at once.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> Hate to ask this, but I cant remember. Just had my H25 turned back on for the summer. Have component hooked to the HTPC and HDMI to a Sharp (all modes except 1080p supported, all checked except 1080p).
> 
> The box displays fine via the HTPC in all resolutions, but the HDMI connection give me "Incompatible Video Signal received" on the Sharp when anything except 480i is selected.
> 
> Does the H25 disable the HD resolutions on the HDMI cable when a component dongle is plugged in? Ive never tried using this one with both at once.


I don't remember my H25 doing that when I was testing the component dongle on my Sony. It's currently HDMI to my Vizio, so I'll need to dig out the dongle to see.


----------



## Davenlr

Ok, thanks. 

No rush, I gave up after the below test, and just ran component cables from the HTPC component passthrough to the Sharp.

If indeed they are blocking HD on the HDMI port when component is in use, then the usefulness of the receiver is greatly reduced.

I just ran a test. Had the Component HD on in the living room, on Comedy Central, at 1080i. I had the Sharp turned off. When I turned it on, the receiver switched to 480i and displayed on the Sharp. I hit the res button on the front, and as soon as it switched off 480i, I got the error message on the Sharp, but the HTPC kept displaying.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> Ok, thanks.
> 
> No rush, I gave up after the below test, and just ran component cables from the HTPC component passthrough to the Sharp.
> 
> If indeed they are blocking HD on the HDMI port when component is in use, then the usefulness of the receiver is greatly reduced.
> 
> I just ran a test. Had the Component HD on in the living room, on Comedy Central, at 1080i. I had the Sharp turned off. When I turned it on, the receiver switched to 480i and displayed on the Sharp. I hit the res button on the front, and as soon as it switched off 480i, I got the error message on the Sharp, but the HTPC kept displaying.


I can't run the outputs to two TVs [they're in different rooms], but I get 720p out both HDMI and component as I switch between inputs on the Vizio.


----------



## Davenlr

Yea, I can do that, but cant run them both at the same time. I have a feeling this is intentional to close up the analog loophole, although I dont see how cutting off the HDMI when analog is also connected is going to do anything except piss off customers.

Either that, or the new cable I just got from Solid Signal (the old dongle kept losing the red signal) has a problem.

Thanks for checking.


----------



## steve053

Hello Mr. VOS,

We're remodeling and I would like to run the correct cabeling to upgrade our HR20-100 when completed. Also would like to know what additional components, electrical outles are needed.

*Current configuration*: Dish is mounted on the NE corner of home. The cable is run on the exterior of the house across the roof to the SE corner; then through the wall to our HR20-100.

There is also a cat-5 ehternet cable run from NE corner of the home, through the attic, that is attached directly to the dvr.

*Desired State*: Keep the dish in the same spot and bring the cable(s) into the basement and terminate at a greenlabel SWM. This is a short run and I'm assuming that the SWM, cable, and cable run would be included in a 'normal' install.

*Q1*: Will I need a power source at or near the SWM?

I am willing to purchase and run a cable from the SWM in the basement - into and through the attic - and through the wall in the SE corner of the home where the current HR20-100 is residing. I would obvously leave enough extra cable on both ends of the run, and request that the installer add the appropriate connectors at each end.

*Q2*: Should I use RG6 or is there another prefered type of cable?
*Q3*: Should I run one or two lines of cable?
*Q4*: Is there a maximum cable length that I need to be aware of?
*Q5*: Where does internet come into play here? Do I need to run cat-5 to the DVR? If so, do I connect the dvr to the router, or do I connect the router to the SWM?

I may keep my existing HR20-100 or upgrade to a newer model, it all depends on how the csr call goes. If I do keep my HR20-100, I'm assuming that I can run a cable from the SWM to the HR20.

*Q6*: Do I need a Cinema Connection Kit for the HR20, or can I continue to network it directly to my route?
*Q7*: Is the internet set-up different if I upgrade the HR20 to an HR21/22/23/24?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I'd rather not have to retrofit the cable run after the remodeling is complete.


----------



## veryoldschool

steve053 said:


> Hello Mr. VOS,
> 
> We're remodeling and I would like to run the correct cabeling to upgrade our HR20-100 when completed. Also would like to know what additional components, electrical outles are needed.
> 
> *Current configuration*: Dish is mounted on the NE corner of home. The cable is run on the exterior of the house across the roof to the SE corner; then through the wall to our HR20-100.
> 
> There is also a cat-5 ehternet cable run from NE corner of the home, through the attic, that is attached directly to the dvr.
> 
> *Desired State*: Keep the dish in the same spot and bring the cable(s) into the basement and terminate at a greenlabel SWM. This is a short run and I'm assuming that the SWM, cable, and cable run would be included in a 'normal' install.
> 
> *Q1*: Will I need a power source at or near the SWM?
> 
> I am willing to purchase and run a cable from the SWM in the basement - into and through the attic - and through the wall in the SE corner of the home where the current HR20-100 is residing. I would obvously leave enough extra cable on both ends of the run, and request that the installer add the appropriate connectors at each end.
> 
> *Q2*: Should I use RG6 or is there another prefered type of cable?
> *Q3*: Should I run one or two lines of cable?
> *Q4*: Is there a maximum cable length that I need to be aware of?
> *Q5*: Where does internet come into play here? Do I need to run cat-5 to the DVR? If so, do I connect the dvr to the router, or do I connect the router to the SWM?
> 
> I may keep my existing HR20-100 or upgrade to a newer model, it all depends on how the csr call goes. If I do keep my HR20-100, I'm assuming that I can run a cable from the SWM to the HR20.
> 
> *Q6*: Do I need a Cinema Connection Kit for the HR20, or can I continue to network it directly to my route?
> *Q7*: Is the internet set-up different if I upgrade the HR20 to an HR21/22/23/24?
> 
> Sorry for all of the questions, but I'd rather not have to retrofit the cable run after the remodeling is complete.


Maybe the first question might be how many receivers/tuners are you planing for?
If less than eight tuners [4 DVRs] a SWiMLNB is the best choice, with a single coax.
Solid copper core RG6 is the type of cable/coax.
I'd try to keep the PI less than 100' from the dish.
Once you move to SWiM, the other other coax needed would be for OTA channels if you plan to have an antenna.
With SWiM, you can split the coax at one location and add more receivers.
Maximum coax runs depend on the splitter size, but 150' shouldn't be a problem, and as or if you need more, then don't use the 8-way splitter.
One CCK will feed internet to all the receivers and they can be either hardwired to wireless. So you can have one near a receiver, or have a coax run to where the router is.
Once you go CCK, you won't use a ethernet connection for internet, and most receivers will either need their network port for a DECA, or will disable the DECA if you connect to it.

You might want to look through this thread for how others have theirs setup: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=200573


----------



## BBM3

I was told by DirecTv that I can only have one (1) HR34 in my system regardless of the fact that I have a SWM16 and my total tuner count would be 12 including my two H24's.
Is this true only one HR34 per system?

Thanks,
-BB


----------



## veryoldschool

BBM3 said:


> I was told by DirecTv that I can only have one (1) HR34 in my system regardless of the fact that I have a SWM16 and my total tuner count would be 12 including my two H24's.
> Is this true only one HR34 per system?
> 
> Thanks,
> -BB


DirecTV currently only will lease you one, but others have added a second to their account, by getting it from another source.


----------



## BBM3

I was told they would not "talk" to each other.
Thanks for the real answer. 

By the way, thanks for your help converting to SWiM.
I did it this week and it works perfectly.


----------



## Beerstalker

I believe that the HR34s can talk to each other. However RVU clients I think can only see one HR34 at a time. So if you have Samsung RVU compatible TVs they will only be able to access one HR34.


----------



## BBM3

Maybe,
In my case no RVU clients in the mix.


----------



## BobGeeX

Just completed my migration to SWM-16 and MRV. I am looking to "clean up" some of the wiring on my Directv connection board and was wondering if the attached setup will work? Nothing special here, just trying to have one less cable running from my internet/power center (going to install UPS) and the SWM-16. Coax length would be about 8 ft. Thanks in advance for all the great info shared here. Bob


----------



## veryoldschool

BobGeeX said:


> Just completed my migration to SWM-16 and MRV. I am looking to "clean up" some of the wiring on my Directv connection board and was wondering if the attached setup will work? Nothing special here, just trying to have one less cable running from my internet/power center (going to install UPS) and the SWM-16. Coax length would be about 8 ft. Thanks in advance for all the great info shared here. Bob


Since the power port in the center is for only DC, adding a DECA to it won't work.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> The second has the advantage of less loss "except for" where you'd use the second splitter.
> 
> Now if you had the wireless CCK, which doesn't need to be wireless, as it has a ethernet port, you could skip the second splitter like I do:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wireless CCK is the only one with a pass through option.


As I'm in the process of upgrading to 2-HRxx's & 2-Hxx's AND I'm curious about the differences of how a WCCK vs a CCK is used and how it effects the signal strength (to all the tuners).

F.Y.I. I've already ran ethernet next to where every receiver would be placed so ......

Q1 Would the installer "likely" use a CCK since I'm already hardwired or would "they" use a WCCK?

Q2 If a CCK where used then it's my understanding that I would have additional loss as it's not able to "pass through" as a WCCK can due to the extra splitter being used?

So if a CCK were to be chosen then perhaps I should consider "disabling" the ethernet jack (for the Deca installation) so that the tech would use a WCCK then I could simply re-enable it after the tech has left then connect to the RJ45.... just to possibly ensure I get a WCCK.

Once again thanks for your help....


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> As I'm in the process of upgrading to 2-HRxx's & 2-Hxx's AND I'm curious about the differences of how a WCCK vs a CCK is used and how it effects the signal strength (to all the tuners).
> 
> F.Y.I. I've already ran ethernet next to where every receiver would be placed so ......
> 
> Q1 Would the installer "likely" use a CCK since I'm already hardwired or would "they" use a WCCK?
> 
> Q2 If a CCK where used then it's my understanding that I would have additional loss as it's not able to "pass through" as a WCCK can due to the extra splitter being used?
> 
> So if a CCK were to be chosen then perhaps I should consider "disabling" the ethernet jack (for the Deca installation) so that the tech would use a WCCK then I could simply re-enable it after the tech has left then connect to the RJ45.... just to possibly ensure I get a WCCK.
> 
> Once again thanks for your help....


I'm not sure what your installer will have on the truck. I've heard some have both, while others only have the CCK.
The CCK is designed as an "end point" device, so it needs to be connected off a splitter. If you can't get a drop from the main splitter, then there would be added loss to the SAT signal to the receiver.
The WCCK has a circuit that passes the SAT signals, but routers the DECA signals through a resistive network and adds about 10 dB of loss for the DECA.
The WCCK can be ordered on your DirecTV account website under "self install".


----------



## BobGeeX

I supported our son's migration to the Whole Home environment this past week with the install of a SWM-16 and a HR34. The HR34 replace an existing DVR, so his config looks like: two HR20-100's, two HR21's, the HR34 and a H21. The MBR HR20-100 is now problematic with occasional pixelation (work ok with the old SWM-8). I have not been out to the house to check it out myself, however, it is reported to be only on certain channels, like 298. Anyway, I believe the tech correctly distributed the receivers over two separate SWM 4-way splitters. The problem HR20-100 DVR required the VOS suggested work-around for the power problem on the DECA. However, the tech said it was not necessary to install the Band Stop on the Sat-1 leg. So my questions are as follows: 1) Is it no longer necessary to install the Band Stop?; 2) Do the "new" DECAs provide higher attenuation than the "old" Deca's?; and 3) What additional troubleshooting would be recommended? I probably can't get over to his house until mid-week. Thanks, Bob


----------



## veryoldschool

BobGeeX said:


> I supported our son's migration to the Whole Home environment this past week with the install of a SWM-16 and a HR34. The HR34 replace an existing DVR, so his config looks like: two HR20-100's, two HR21's, the HR34 and a H21. The MBR HR20-100 is now problematic with occasional pixelation (work ok with the old SWM-8). I have not been out to the house to check it out myself, however, it is reported to be only on certain channels, like 298. Anyway, I believe the tech correctly distributed the receivers over two separate SWM 4-way splitters. The problem HR20-100 DVR required the VOS suggested work-around for the power problem on the DECA. However, the tech said it was not necessary to install the Band Stop on the Sat-1 leg. So my questions are as follows: 1) Is it no longer necessary to install the Band Stop?; 2) Do the "new" DECAs provide higher attenuation than the "old" Deca's?; and 3) What additional troubleshooting would be recommended? I probably can't get over to his house until mid-week. Thanks, Bob


New/old DECA need to have the same power, so there shouldn't be any attenuation, as the coax & splitters is where it comes from.
If you're using two 4-way splitters, the receivers should be "balanced" between the two outputs of the SWiM-16.
"I would figure": the two HR20s & the two HR21s on one side, with the HR34 & H21 on the other side. This would give 8 tuners on one, and 6 on the other. I suppose you could have [or swap] a HR2x and the H21, so there would be seven on each, but it won't make much difference.

Now as to the -100 with a DECA, if the 2-way splitter needed, is between the -100 and the DECA, no bandstop filter is needed because the DECA is keeping the signal out of the SAT tuner, "BUT" if the splitter is mounted before the DECA, where the DECA connects directly to SAT #2, then goes to the splitter, then the SAT #1 isn't being blocked and so a bandstop filter is needed and the lack of one may be the cause of the pixelation.


----------



## Transeau

Hey VOS, thanks for posting so much great info, I do enjoy learning about this.

I was hoping to some feedback on my current layout. Sorry for the very basic drawing.

The splitters are not "green label" - I have them ordered, but they are taking a long time to get here. What they are is 5-2600mhz, 4.5 loss, all ports power-pass.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## dsexton

I have an HR34 and 2 H25s on a SWM8 dish in one part of my house and an HR20 and HR22 on a 5LNB dish on the other side. I am currently running Whole Home with the HR34 on the DECA connection and the HR20 and 22 on the old setup. I cannot run coax from the new SWM dish to the older DVRs. I noticed tonight watching a recording from the HR22 through the HR34 that the picture was stuttering at times. If possible I want to convert the 5LNB to a SWM and connect the old HRs via DECA. 

Can I run two DECA setups through two sets of coax cabling that do not connect to each other, on the same home network? My network is hard-wired throughout the house. The router is downstairs in a closet where the new SWM setup is located with a broadband DECA, OKU, and a splitter with 5 connections. The router is connected via ethernet cabling to the other end of the house where the home theater with all 3 receivers is. I have a switch with several things connected--the two old HRs, PS3, Slingbox, Nomad. I have an AM21N on the HR34 if that makes any difference. 

Can I switch the 5LNB for a SWM8 at the old slimline dish, attach a 2nd broadband DECA with the other required parts between the new SWM8 and the old HRs, plug the broadband DECA into my switch in the media room, and have the two DECA setups not interfere with each other on my home network? Or is there some other way to connect the two older HRs by coax to the existing single DECA setup which is powering the HR34 which is in the same room?

If it is possible to convert the 5LNB to SWM8 and use the 2 DECAs together, are all the parts I will need readily available now through Amazon? As far as I can tell, I will need the SWM8, at least one green label splitter (how big?), an OKU, a bdbaroadnd DECA, and one DECA each for the HR20 and 22. I would like to use both tuners from the old HRs; with my current 5LNB I now only have a single cable available for each HR, but I know with SWM that will not be an issue (as long as I have a splitter for each HR? Does it need to be green label)?


----------



## veryoldschool

Transeau said:


> Hey VOS, thanks for posting so much great info, I do enjoy learning about this.
> 
> I was hoping to some feedback on my current layout. Sorry for the very basic drawing.
> 
> The splitters are not "green label" - I have them ordered, but they are taking a long time to get here. What they are is 5-2600mhz, 4.5 loss, all ports power-pass.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I'm guessing your having DECA problems?
The green labeled splitter have a circuit for DECA that your current splitters don't, so the loss is very high for each splitter.
DECA needs to pass between outputs and this is where the high loss is with yours.


----------



## veryoldschool

dsexton said:


> I have an HR34 and 2 H25s on a SWM8 dish in one part of my house and an HR20 and HR22 on a 5LNB dish on the other side. I am currently running Whole Home with the HR34 on the DECA connection and the HR20 and 22 on the old setup. I cannot run coax from the new SWM dish to the older DVRs. I noticed tonight watching a recording from the HR22 through the HR34 that the picture was stuttering at times. If possible I want to convert the 5LNB to a SWM and connect the old HRs via DECA.
> 
> Can I run two DECA setups through two sets of coax cabling that do not connect to each other, on the same home network? My network is hard-wired throughout the house. The router is downstairs in a closet where the new SWM setup is located with a broadband DECA, OKU, and a splitter with 5 connections. The router is connected via ethernet cabling to the other end of the house where the home theater with all 3 receivers is. I have a switch with several things connected--the two old HRs, PS3, Slingbox, Nomad. I have an AM21N on the HR34 if that makes any difference.
> 
> Can I switch the 5LNB for a SWM8 at the old slimline dish, attach a 2nd broadband DECA with the other required parts between the new SWM8 and the old HRs, plug the broadband DECA into my switch in the media room, and have the two DECA setups not interfere with each other on my home network? Or is there some other way to connect the two older HRs by coax to the existing single DECA setup which is powering the HR34 which is in the same room?
> 
> If it is possible to convert the 5LNB to SWM8 and use the 2 DECAs together, are all the parts I will need readily available now through Amazon? As far as I can tell, I will need the SWM8, at least one green label splitter (how big?), an OKU, a bdbaroadnd DECA, and one DECA each for the HR20 and 22. I would like to use both tuners from the old HRs; with my current 5LNB I now only have a single cable available for each HR, but I know with SWM that will not be an issue (as long as I have a splitter for each HR? Does it need to be green label)?


You might look into your ethernet network for the cause of the stuttering. We've used a mix of DECA and ethernet and not had problems.
You can combine two DECA networks through a router, but if your router is somehow the cause of your current stuttering, you may still have it.
Your old slimline should "only need" a SWiM LNB change to upgrade it to SWiM. You haven't said which HR20 you have, so if it's a -100, there is a special DECA configuration needed. The HR20-700 doesn't.
A LNB, PI, a 4-way green labeled splitter, a DECA for each receiver, and a BB DECA [or CCK it's called now], and depending on which model HR20, another 2-way splitter & maybe a bandstop filter.


----------



## Transeau

veryoldschool said:


> I'm guessing your having DECA problems?
> The green labeled splitter have a circuit for DECA that your current splitters don't, so the loss is very high for each splitter.
> DECA needs to pass between outputs and this is where the high loss is with yours.


Surprisingly, no DECA issues.

I've further simplified my setup. After lots of reading, I've discovered (thanks to you) that with an HR34, I don't need the DECA BB bridge anymore. Now I have a single "green label" 2way splitter with the PI-21 on the leg with the HR34. The HR24 is on it's own.

My PHY levels are about -25 and mesh rates are all 251 and 252. Are those acceptable? (or good/excellent/perfect?) I haven't found the info yet on what the optimal numbers are for those.


----------



## veryoldschool

Transeau said:


> Surprisingly, no DECA issues.
> 
> My PHY levels are about -25 and mesh rates are all 251 and 252. Are those acceptable? (or good/excellent/perfect?) I haven't found the info yet on what the optimal numbers are for those.


With a -25 Phy level, it isn't surprising that you have 250+ Mesh rates.
Changing the 2-way splitter to a green labeled splitter should drop the Phy level [loss] to around -10. This won't change/improve the Mesh rates because they're already good and the loss is well within range.
When the loss gets above -40 [dB], is when the Mesh rates start to drop due to a loss of the signal to noise ratio.
The receiver will report an error during system test when the Mesh rates drop to or below 220.


----------



## dsexton

Thank you very much for the help. My network is AT&T Uverse 20mBPS. For AT&T it works reasonably well. I use the horrible AT&T modem/router as a modem only, running through a Linksys WRT610N. I see no stuttering at all when playing anything from the HR34 so far. My HR20 is a 700. To get the use of both tuners on the old HRs with only one coax available to each, I have no choice other than SWM8, correct?


----------



## veryoldschool

dsexton said:


> Thank you very much for the help. My network is AT&T Uverse 20mBPS. For AT&T it works reasonably well. I use the horrible AT&T modem/router as a modem only, running through a Linksys WRT610N. I see no stuttering at all when playing anything from the HR34 so far. My HR20 is a 700. To get the use of both tuners on the old HRs with only one coax available to each, I have no choice other than SWM8, correct?


"Yes & no".
You need a SWiM for the dual tuner function with one coax.
The SWM8 is a separate switch that you connect to four coax from the dish.
The SWiM LNB does the same function, but replaces the LNB on the dish, and only has one coax.

BTW: I too have Uverse and a 3600 2Wire, but it works fine. :shrug:


----------



## dsexton

veryoldschool said:


> "Yes & no".
> You need a SWiM for the dual tuner function with one coax.
> The SWM8 is a separate switch that you connect to four coax from the dish.
> The SWiM LNB does the same function, but replaces the LNB on the dish, and only has one coax.
> 
> BTW: I too have Uverse and a 3600 2Wire, but it works fine. :shrug:


Thank you again VOS. Looking at all the equipment needed and the cost, I may decide to try to stick with the ethernet connections to the HR20 and HR22 if I can get everything working right. Today I have noticed problems with my Nomad. It keeps dropping the connection while it is preparing a recording for download. It has successfully downloaded some programs but has repeatedly dropped the connection of preparing a recording from both the HR34 and the HR22. The Nomad is connected through a Linksys 8-port switch, which also connects the HR20 and HR22. After experiencing the problems, I first hid the HR34 from the Nomad; that worked for one recording but not a successive one, so the first one working must have been coincidence. After that I reset the router, the BBDeca, and the switch by unplugging and restarting. So far I have been monitoring the progress of the Nomad since the reset and it hasn't dropped again, but I won't know if the problem is resolved until I check again in the morning.

I have not reset the entire network setup since the installation of the HR34 last weekend. I have 3 switches, the BBDECA, and the Uverse 3801 plugged into the router. Prior to last weekend I had static IPs assigned to the HR20 and HR22 and had put in 4.2.2.2 for the DNS--I switched my whole network from the Uverse DNSs since I was having so many problems with Uverse. The DNS switch on my computers did actually improve latency. A recent firmware upgrade seems to have fixed some wireless issues (my wireless is through Linksys WRT610N) but I am wondering if it may have introduced some networking problems. I had not tried the Nomad since the Uverse firmware update. When the DTV changes were made last weekend, I noticed the old HRs now have dynamic IP addresses and I am wondering if I should reconfigure to the old static addresses and use the router address as the DNS. If so, should I also set up the HR34 with a static address?


----------



## veryoldschool

dsexton said:


> Thank you again VOS. Looking at all the equipment needed and the cost, I may decide to try to stick with the ethernet connections to the HR20 and HR22 if I can get everything working right. Today I have noticed problems with my Nomad. It keeps dropping the connection while it is preparing a recording for download. It has successfully downloaded some programs but has repeatedly dropped the connection of preparing a recording from both the HR34 and the HR22. The Nomad is connected through a Linksys 8-port switch, which also connects the HR20 and HR22. After experiencing the problems, I first hid the HR34 from the Nomad; that worked for one recording but not a successive one, so the first one working must have been coincidence. After that I reset the router, the BBDeca, and the switch by unplugging and restarting. So far I have been monitoring the progress of the Nomad since the reset and it hasn't dropped again, but I won't know if the problem is resolved until I check again in the morning.
> 
> I have not reset the entire network setup since the installation of the HR34 last weekend. I have 3 switches, the BBDECA, and the Uverse 3801 plugged into the router. Prior to last weekend I had static IPs assigned to the HR20 and HR22 and had put in 4.2.2.2 for the DNS--I switched my whole network from the Uverse DNSs since I was having so many problems with Uverse. The DNS switch on my computers did actually improve latency. A recent firmware upgrade seems to have fixed some wireless issues (my wireless is through Linksys WRT610N) but I am wondering if it may have introduced some networking problems. I had not tried the Nomad since the Uverse firmware update. When the DTV changes were made last weekend, I noticed the old HRs now have dynamic IP addresses and I am wondering if I should reconfigure to the old static addresses and use the router address as the DNS. If so, should I also set up the HR34 with a static address?


I've got Uverse too and am using the 2Wire 3600, but also had the 3800 for a while.
I use the wireless CCK/DECA, and don't bother to change anything from "straight out of the box" settings. "Well OK" I did select another WiFi channel than the auto detect one, but that's it and the only issue I've been fighting has been on the Uverse side as they have been randomly dropping the DSL signal. This has been a tough thing to find, but "hopefully" Friday's service call has finally got it as my noise margin is the best I've seen, and my error log shows none for 2 days 5 hours and 53 mins. :lol:


----------



## BobGeeX

In reference to my post and your answer of 4-28. The "system" crashed yesterday with 771A error message on the new HR34. Tried "red button" reset and "power plug" reset without success. Finally pulled the power on the SWM-16 and system came back up. Had Directv tech out this afternoon and like the original tech he was not knowledgeable on how to properly connect a HR20-100. He initially changed the hookup, putting in the Band Stop, and using the "new" Deca - would not work. I had the "old" Deca with me, put it in and it worked fine and the earlier pixelation problem was gone also. We repeated the process on another HR20-100 - same result - did not work with "new" Deca but did work with the "old" Deca. So, at least in our config the HR20-100 is not liking the new Deca . . . I gave the tech a copy of the VOS connection drawing - hopefully he will pass it around.


----------



## veryoldschool

BobGeeX said:


> He initially changed the hookup, putting in the Band Stop, and using the "new" Deca - would not work. I had the "old" Deca with me, put it in and it worked fine and the earlier pixelation problem was gone also. We repeated the process on another HR20-100 - same result - did not work with "new" Deca but did work with the "old" Deca. So, at least in our config the HR20-100 is not liking the new Deca . . . I gave the tech a copy of the VOS connection drawing - hopefully he will pass it around.


Curious as to what the "new DECA" was verses the old DECA.
Are these the small black ones, verses the larger white ones?


----------



## BobGeeX

Yes, works with the white Deca and not the black Deca. System has been stable for over 24 hrs. Grand kids are happy. Thanks VOS.


----------



## Transeau

VOS,
I'm curious as to how much loss the PI introduces? My system is stripped down to the basics now, a SWM-3 LNB, a "Green Label" 2way splitter, about 30' of RG-6 to an HR24, about 50' of RG-6 to an HR34 and the PI. Yet my phy levels are still -24 and -25. I'm not having any issues, but I would like it as close to optimal as I can get.


----------



## veryoldschool

Transeau said:


> VOS,
> I'm curious as to how much loss the PI introduces? My system is stripped down to the basics now, a SWM-3 LNB, a "Green Label" 2way splitter, about 30' of RG-6 to an HR24, about 50' of RG-6 to an HR34 and the PI. Yet my phy levels are still -24 and -25. I'm not having any issues, but I would like it as close to optimal as I can get.


First you don't need to worry about those phy levels since you've got another 20 dB before your going to have problems, and even if you got them down to zero your Phy rate Mesh numbers wouldn't change, as you're in the range, like a TV picture doesn't get better once it has enough signal, where more signal doesn't return any better picture.
Your levels are this way now.

"Now" as I go through your numbers, I come out with about 10 more loss than you should have. The PI can't be the cause of it. It's hard to know much about the PI as I took mine apart and the coax goes into a sealed "splitter like" package. I'm guessing this is mostly for shielding as they "tap" the DC in and have a DC block on the output.

The 2-way should have about -8 dB loss [as I've measured mine] and the 80' of RG6 should be down about 4 dB @ 550 MHz.


----------



## infounlim

Am I incorrect in thinking that all SWM16's are DECA compatible? I just purchased one from an Amazon seller and there is no green label on the back. The specific model number appears to be SWM16R0-03.


----------



## veryoldschool

infounlim said:


> Am I incorrect in thinking that all SWM16's are DECA compatible? I just purchased one from an Amazon seller and there is no green label on the back. The specific model number appears to be SWM16R0-03.


I don't think there is a -16 that isn't.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> ..... The CCK is designed as an "end point" device, so it needs to be connected off a splitter. If you can't get a drop from the main splitter, then there would be added loss to the SAT signal to the receiver.
> The WCCK has a circuit that passes the SAT signals, but routers the DECA signals through a resistive network and adds about 10 dB of loss for the DECA.


 If a drop from the splitter wasn't available and since there is going to be a loss "one place or the other", what option would be the best "overall" choice?

1) WCCK w/loss for the Deca,
OR
2) The loss of SAT signal caused by the extra (2way) splitter with a CCK?
.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> If a drop from the splitter wasn't available and since there is going to be a loss "one place or the other", what option would be the best "overall" choice?
> 
> 1) WCCK w/loss for the Deca,
> OR
> 2) The loss of SAT signal caused by the extra (2way) splitter with a CCK?
> .


The SWiM has a solid 30 dB range for loss, so there is some flexibility for the number and size of the splitters in conjunction with the coax loss.

The WCCK has a pass through for the SAT signals, but adds 10 dB of loss for the DECA signals, so there will always be some trade-offs, no matter which way you go.

Maybe explaining what you have and a rough guess as to the coax lengths might help to figure out the differences between the two signal losses.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> The SWiM has a solid 30 dB range for loss, so there is some flexibility for the number and size of the splitters in conjunction with the coax loss.
> 
> The WCCK has a pass through for the SAT signals, but adds 10 dB of loss for the DECA signals, so there will always be some trade-offs, no matter which way you go.
> 
> Maybe explaining what you have and a rough guess as to the coax lengths might help to figure out the differences between the two signal losses.


I've attached a drawing of how my system would look like for your referencing. I was hopeful of using a WCCK as it would give me the pass-thru capability but I'm still not sure if I should be using a 2 way splitter and a deadend CCK instead.

So what do you think would be my "best" option?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> I've attached a drawing of how my system would look like for your referencing. I was hopeful of using a WCCK as it would give me the pass-thru capability but I'm still not sure if I should be using a 2 way splitter and a deadend CCK instead.
> 
> *So what do you think would be my "best" option?*


That looks very good, with the only change I'd look at is to move the PI to the #3 legacy port to power the SWM8.
DECA & SWiM don't seem to like "looking" at the PI, without something like a lot of coax or a splitter in between.
"Other than this tweak", I don't see anything else I'd change.


----------



## David Ortiz

Sunner73 said:


> I've attached a drawing of how my system would look like for your referencing. I was hopeful of using a WCCK as it would give me the pass-thru capability but I'm still not sure if I should be using a 2 way splitter and a deadend CCK instead.
> 
> So what do you think would be my "best" option?





veryoldschool said:


> That looks very good, with the only change I'd look at is to move the PI to the #3 legacy port to power the SWM8.
> DECA & SWiM don't seem to like "looking" at the PI, without something like a lot of coax or a splitter in between.
> "Other than this tweak", I don't see anything else I'd change.


I don't believe the WCCK has power-passing ports, so the PI would have to be flopped with the WCCK at the very least. Also, the HR34's ethernet port can be used to bridge to your router. You could eliminate the WCCK entirely.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> That looks very good, with the only change I'd look at is to move the PI to the #3 legacy port to power the SWM8.
> DECA & SWiM don't seem to like "looking" at the PI, without something like a lot of coax or a splitter in between.
> "Other than this tweak", I don't see anything else I'd change.


 So ... can I use the same PI29 thru the legacy 3 port?

If so then disregard the following....

I seem to recall that when powered thru the legacy 3 port a 20V supply was to be used, any truth to that?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> So ... can I use the same PI29 thru the legacy 3 port?
> 
> If so then disregard the following....
> 
> I seem to recall that when powered thru the legacy 3 port a 20V supply was to be used, any truth to that?


You can use [like others] the 29 volt PI on the legacy port.


----------



## Sunner73

David Ortiz said:


> I don't believe the WCCK has power-passing ports, so the PI would have to be flopped with the WCCK at the very least. Also, the HR34's ethernet port can be used to bridge to your router. You could eliminate the WCCK entirely.


 Since my router would be near the HR34 can I "actually" eliminate the "WCCK/CCK" altogether? Would the Deca system be supported by DTV without one?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Since my router would be near the HR34 can I "actually" eliminate the "WCCK/CCK" altogether? Would the Deca system be supported by DTV without one?


Using the HR34 as the bridge to your home network is a supported method.
There are a couple/few posts of late that say doing so has caused some strange problems with VOD downloads. Not that you'd have these, but if you read enough posts, you'll see them.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> That looks very good, with the only change I'd look at is to move the PI to the #3 legacy port to power the SWM8.


 I just moved the PI to #3, however, I have a situation I didn't disclose, ie, I've been using a single tuner SD Tivo (using it temporarily) off of legacy#3 but when I insert the PI between #3 and the Tivo I don't get a signal.

It does appears there is a block for the "legacy" signal going thru the PI.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> I just moved the PI to #3, however, I have a situation I didn't disclose, ie, I've been using a single tuner SD Tivo (using it temporarily) off of legacy#3 but when I insert the PI between #3 and the Tivo I don't get a signal.
> 
> It does appears there is a frequency block for the "legacy" signal going thru the PI.


There is a DC block in the PI, so you can't connect a legacy receiver to the IRD side of the PI.


----------



## mikeren1

Hey VOS... I looked around the forum to see if i could find my answer first with no luck... I have had the h34 whole home setup with cck for a couple of months now and love it.. I just tried to download my first VOD... It has been downloading for abot 30 minutes and it is only showing 5% done... I have high speed cable internet and the conection test out fine on the H34.. Should it be that slow? thx in advance


----------



## veryoldschool

mikeren1 said:


> Hey VOS... I looked around the forum to see if i could find my answer first with no luck... I have had the h34 whole home setup with cck for a couple of months now and love it.. I just tried to download my first VOD... It has been downloading for abot 30 minutes and it is only showing 5% done... I have high speed cable internet and the conection test out fine on the H34.. Should it be that slow? thx in advance


That sounds slower than most.
While I don't have a 34, I do have a wireless CCK and have used VOD.
DirecTV only sends out at about 7-8 Mb/s for HD, but normally this is close to a 1:1 rate.
Some ISPs play games with their network and choke VOD.
I had one like this several years ago and changing service ended my problems.

There have been a few posts from 34 users who say when they use the CCK, their download is slow, and if they used the network port of the 34, it's faster, but the VOD has had jumpy/jerky playback.


----------



## daveriv

Hi VOS - I am on MRV unsupported currently. Recently my internet service price went up so I'm considering changing plans. Right now I'm on an 18Mbps/18Mbps plan. If I move to a 5Mbps/5Mbps plan will I see a degradation in performance - I'm not clear if the download speed has any correlation to my MRV experience. Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

daveriv said:


> Hi VOS - I am on MRV unsupported currently. Recently my internet service price went up so I'm considering changing plans. Right now I'm on an 18Mbps/18Mbps plan. If I move to a 5Mbps/5Mbps plan will I see a degradation in performance - I'm not clear if the download speed has any correlation to my MRV experience. Thanks!


This change will only affect your VOD download times.
MRV stays within your home network, so it will not be affected.


----------



## daveriv

Thanks VOS


----------



## Sunner73

Hi VOS,

I've finally rec'd my new HD setup and it came with a WCCK, I also found an image that you posted last year (reference image threads) that I have a question about. In the image the ethernet connection (white cable above the white coax) is not going to the receiver but I'm hoping it would be connected to the router or modem.

It will be placed next to a HR34 for which I've already ran an ethernet cable from that position to the room with my combo router/modem, ie, a 2wire 2701HG-B but that location does not get consistent wifi reception... that's why I ran the cable.

Just hoping that it would work that way, otherwise .....

Thanks in advance.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Hi VOS,
> 
> I've finally rec'd my new HD setup and it came with a WCCK, I also found an image that you posted last year (reference image threads) that I have a question about. In the image the ethernet connection (white cable above the white coax) is not going to the receiver but I'm hoping it would be connected to the router or modem.
> 
> It will be placed next to a HR34 for which I've already ran an ethernet cable from that position to the room with my combo router/modem, ie, a 2wire 2701HG-B but that location does not get consistent wifi reception... that's why I ran the cable.
> 
> Just hoping that it would work that way, otherwise .....
> 
> Thanks in advance.


In that image, the ethernet does run to my [2Wire] router.
Since you have a HR34 where the CCK would be, you can also use the ethernet port on the HR34 and it will do the same thing the CCK hardwired would.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> In that image, the ethernet does run to my [2Wire] router.
> Since you have a HR34 where the CCK would be, you can also use the ethernet port on the HR34 and it will do the same thing the CCK hardwired would.


Any advantage one way over the other?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Any advantage one way over the other?


They both do the same thing. 
The CCK has an internal splitter, so the 34 would have slightly less signal, if it was used there. This may not cause any problems, so :shrug:


----------



## cbhpi

Recently, I had installed a slimline 3 swm dish. From the dish to the point of entry, RG6 is used. From the point of entry to the receiver, about 75' of RG59 is used. The power inserter sits behind the receiver, so there is RG59 between the dish and the PI. I'm getting signals in the high 90's on all the channels that matter to me. In the past, you've made it clear that solid core RG6 should be used between the PI and the dish. What problems can I expect in the future?


----------



## veryoldschool

cbhpi said:


> Recently, I had installed a slimline 3 swm dish. From the dish to the point of entry, RG6 is used. From the point of entry to the receiver, about 75' of RG59 is used. The power inserter sits behind the receiver, so there is RG59 between the dish and the PI. I'm getting signals in the high 90's on all the channels that matter to me. In the past, you've made it clear that solid core RG6 should be used between the PI and the dish. What problems can I expect in the future?


While not the best choice, the run seems short enough as to not be a major issue. The RF loss is only going to be a couple of dB or so [more].
The DC resistance may be twice of what solid copper core RG6 would be, but if this is also solid copper core, it's only a couple of ohms.
Check the PI label and see if it's a 21 volt or the 28/9 volt. I'd be more worried about a 21 volt PI than the 28/9 volt, as the higher will handle this resistance [voltage drop] with plenty to spare.


----------



## cbhpi

veryoldschool said:


> While not the best choice, the run seems short enough as to not be a major issue. The RF loss is only going to be a couple of dB or so [more].
> The DC resistance may be twice of what solid copper core RG6 would be, but if this is also solid copper core, it's only a couple of ohms.
> Check the PI label and see if it's a 21 volt or the 28/9 volt. I'd be more worried about a 21 volt PI than the 28/9 volt, as the higher will handle this resistance [voltage drop] with plenty to spare.


Thank you, and will do.


----------



## Sunner73

Sunner73 said:


> Any advantage one way over the other?





veryoldschool said:


> They both do the same thing.
> The CCK has an internal splitter, so the 34 would have slightly less signal, if it was used there. This may not cause any problems, so :shrug:


I wasn't quite awake when I asked my prior question, obviously if the ethernet cable is connected to the HR34 then the only internet connection would be through my wifi whereas we know how it would be if the ethernet was connected to the modem.

Since I do have wifi problems due to obstruction/distance issues I would definitively benefit from the "non-wifi" connection. And no, I do not want to try relocating my wireless router/modem.

Once again, Thanks VOS


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> In that image, the ethernet does run to my [2Wire] router.
> Since you have a HR34 where the CCK would be, you can also use the ethernet port on the HR34 and it will do the same thing the CCK hardwired would.


I've ran the ethernet to my router but I can't get connected (to the Internet), on the WCCK(Deca) only the Power and Activity are lit green, I can ping the Deca unit and it gets responses, I've used a browser to open the setup page of the Deca but I've an interesting situation.
On the box it gave a MAC address but when I go to the "status" of bridge on the Deca it lists a different MAC address, also the MoCA MAC is also slightly different than the "status" MAC.

My router is using Static DHCP w/MAC filtering. I've already entered the Deca unit using the MAC listed on the box, then I changed it to the "status" MAC but no difference... still no internet access.

By chance do you have any lights lit other than "power and activity"? Also would or should the "coax network" light be lit "IF" there is no other receiver currently connected (I'm systematically connecting and setting up one-by-one and I'm wanting to get the internet access working before I connect the other HR's).


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> I've ran the ethernet to my router but I can't get connected (to the Internet), on the WCCK(Deca) only the Power and Activity are lit green, I can ping the Deca unit and it gets responses, I've used a browser to open the setup page of the Deca but I've an interesting situation.
> On the box it gave a MAC address but when I go to the "status" of bridge on the Deca it lists a different MAC address, also the MoCA MAC is also slightly different than the "status" MAC.
> 
> My router is using Static DHCP w/MAC filtering. I've already entered the Deca unit using the MAC listed on the box, then I changed it to the "status" MAC but no difference... still no internet access.
> 
> By chance do you have any lights lit other than "power and activity"? Also would or should the "coax network" light be lit "IF" there is no other receiver currently connected (I'm systematically connecting and setting up one-by-one and I'm wanting to get the internet access working before I connect the other HR's).


Have you connected a coax to your WCCK? If so the cLink/coax network should be lit and green. If it isn't, then you don't have a connection to your receivers.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> Have you connected a coax to your WCCK? If so the cLink/coax network should be lit and green. If it isn't, then you don't have a connection to your receivers.


Yes, the port labeled "Towards LNB" I've connected to the SWM16, the other to the receiver.

All the user manual talks about is WPS or go to "Manual Wireless Setup" which obviously I'm not using the WiFi part of it. There is not even a page on how to hardwire it.

I can bring up the setup by running the ip address (in a browser), so my computer can obviously see it.

Do I need to do something about the network values on the HR34 itself? So that they fall into the range my Static-HDCP w/mac filtering router can see?

And again, the CCK has a mac address while after I log onto the CCK itself the status page shows a different mac also, so which one I'm I supposed to use?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Yes, the port labeled "Towards LNB" I've connected to the SWM16, the other to the receiver.
> 
> All the user manual talks about is WPS or go to "Manual Wireless Setup" which obviously I'm not using the WiFi part of it. There is not even a page on how to hardwire it.
> 
> I can bring up the setup by running the ip address (in a browser), so my computer can obviously see it.
> 
> Do I need to do something about the network values on the HR34 itself? So that they fall into the range my Static-HDCP w/mac filtering router can see?


I'm more concerned about the LED status, as that indicates the RF status.
For now let's pass on the whole router/IP/internet and focus on whether there is coax networking.
Go to the 34 and press the guide & right arrow buttons [both] on the front panel. You should see a menu with COAX on the left. Select this and the next screen will show all the DECAs that are connected to the node, along with the loss to each from the 34.
Either post a screen shot or list what you see here and it will help.


----------



## cbhpi

veryoldschool said:


> While not the best choice, the run seems short enough as to not be a major issue. The RF loss is only going to be a couple of dB or so [more].
> The DC resistance may be twice of what solid copper core RG6 would be, but if this is also solid copper core, it's only a couple of ohms.
> Check the PI label and see if it's a 21 volt or the 28/9 volt. I'd be more worried about a 21 volt PI than the 28/9 volt, as the higher will handle this resistance [voltage drop] with plenty to spare.


The PI is a 21 volt. I checked my signal strength again and there are some low numbers, but only for some of the spot beam transponders. (There are a couple of really high numbers, too.) Reception seems to be good on all the channels that I watch, including local HD channels. If I don't make a fuss and keep the 21 volt PI, will reception likely be affected during rainstorms?


----------



## veryoldschool

cbhpi said:


> The PI is a 21 volt. I checked my signal strength again and there are some low numbers, but only for some of the spot beam transponders. (There are also a couple of really high numbers, too.) Reception seems to be good on all the channels that I watch, including local HD channels. If I don't make a fuss and keep the 21 volt PI, will reception likely be affected during rainstorms?


You're most likely "fine". The 21 volt has been dropped for the 28 volt, and even with solid copper core RG6 has had some issues [771] with long coax runs.
While I don't like DC on RG59, if it's working for you then it should continue.
You might want to check if the RG59 is warm at all, as this would be [more of] a sign of a problem.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> I'm more concerned about the LED status, as that indicates the RF status.
> For now let's pass on the whole router/IP/internet and focus on whether there is coax networking.
> Go to the 34 and press the guide & right arrow buttons [both] on the front panel. You should see a menu with COAX on the left. Select this and the next screen will show all the DECAs that are connected to the node, along with the loss to each from the 34.
> Either post a screen shot or list what you see here and it will help.


Nodes IDs Friendly Names Mac Address Phy Levels

0 Family Rm 14D4FE6F552B N/A
1 Node-90A4DED16460 90A4DED16460 -15

Sorry, when it posts this info it shrinks the space between columns.


----------



## cbhpi

veryoldschool said:


> You're most likely "fine". The 21 volt has been dropped for the 28 volt, and even with solid copper core RG6 has had some issues [771] with long coax runs.
> While I don't like DC on RG59, if it's working for you then it should continue.
> You might want to check if the RG59 is warm at all, as this would be [more of] a sign of a problem.


Is this a safety/fire issue?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Nodes IDs Friendly Names Mac Address Phy Levels
> 
> 
> 
> 0| Family Rm |14D4FE6F552B| N/A
> 1| Node-90A4DED16460| 90A4DED16460| -15
> Sorry, when it posts this info it shrinks the space between columns.


So this shows the HR34 being node 0 and one other DECA being node 1 with a MAC of 90A4DE16460.
Do you only have a HR34 and the WCCK?


----------



## veryoldschool

cbhpi said:


> Is this a safety/fire issue?


It is of "some interest", as if it's getting warm, it's a sign of resistance which might suggest over time you might have problems as the RG59 degrades due to this heat.


----------



## Sunner73

Sunner73 said:


> ..... there is no other receiver currently connected (I'm systematically connecting and setting up one-by-one and I'm wanting to get the internet access working before I connect the other HR's).





veryoldschool said:


> So this shows the HR34 being node 0 and one other DECA being node 1 with a MAC of 90A4DE16460.
> Do you only have a HR34 and the WCCK?


Yes, currently only the HR34 is connected while I work on getting the Internet accessable.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Yes, currently only the HR34 is connected while I work on getting the Internet accessable.


Not quite sure why you're doing it this way "but" you might try rebooting the WCCK, and then rebooting the HR34, since the DECA RF signal is present, this may simply be that the WCCK was added after the 34.
"The normal" setup/reboot cycle is to have everything connected, and power up the WCCK, then each receiver one by one.

If this doesn't resolve it, I'd reset all the network settings to defaults, which is easy on the 34, but requires finding the recessed button on the WCCK.
Once you've got them "talking [34 -WCCK-router] you can then play with static IPs/MAC filtering etc.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> Not quite sure why you're doing it this way "but" you might try rebooting the WCCK, and then rebooting the HR34, since the DECA RF signal is present, this may simply be that the WCCK was added after the 34.
> "The normal" setup/reboot cycle is to have everything connected, and power up the WCCK, then each receiver one by one.
> 
> If this doesn't resolve it, I'd reset all the network settings to defaults, which is easy on the 34, but requires finding the recessed button on the WCCK.
> Once you've got them "talking [34 -WCCK-router] you can then play with static IPs/MAC filtering etc.


I did power up the HR34 before I plugged in the CCK power supply but I have used the "reboot" button while I was accessing the setup on the CCK (through the browser). I've unplugged the CCK and hit the red reset button but no change.... still no coax light.

I was just wanting to get the HR34 installation up and totally running "before" adding the other HR24s.

I've even just did a "reset" on the CCK (little hole above the ethernet jack) and another red button reset (HR34). Still no coax light. (when the CCK goes through the restart process the green coax light does flicker a few times but then nothing.)


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> I did power up the HR34 before I plugged in the CCK power supply but I have used the "reboot" button while I was accessing the setup on the CCK (through the browser). I've unplugged the CCK and hit the red reset button but no change.... still no coax light.
> 
> I was just wanting to get the HR34 installation up and totally running "before" adding the other HR24s.
> 
> I've even just did a "reset" on the CCK (little hole above the ethernet jack) and another red button reset (HR34). Still no coax light. (when the CCK goes through the restart process the green coax light does flicker a few times but then nothing.)


So at this point I'm leaning towards a bad WCCK, and would use the ethernet port on the HR34, and then connect the rest of your system up as you'll be running [and or find your next issue].
The HR34 will act a a bridge between the DECA and your home network.


----------



## Sunner73

I'm at a total loss.... there isn't even any literature on how to hard wire a WCCK. 

After using paperclip to "reset" the CCK, I did a red button reset on the HR34...twice.... and no difference.

Why is this not allowing at least the green coax network light to illuminate? 

Perhaps I should disconnect the CCK from my router to see if I could even get the coax network to light up. Probably won't light up without a connection to the router.. be my luck. 

Any ideas?


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> So at this point I'm leaning towards a bad WCCK, and would use the ethernet port on the HR34, and then connect the rest of your system up as you'll be running [and or find your next issue].
> The HR34 will act a a bridge between the DECA and your home network.


Just my luck... who would have thought a new WCCK being bad. To bad I didn't play the Mega last night.

I was trying not to run an ethernet cable to the HR34 being it's 20ft from the CCK and ethernet hub on the other side of the room but looks like I've not too many choices. We know that it should be working but alas....

So just to confirm since I will be connecting the HR34 directly to the router, I should "NOT" have anything plugged into the ethernet jack on the CCK? Obviously I will have to add the HR34's mac address to the router's filter though.


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Just my luck... who would have thought a new WCCK being bad. To bad I didn't play the Mega last night.
> 
> I was trying not to run an ethernet cable to the HR34 being it's 20ft from the CCK and ethernet hub on the other side of the room but looks like I've not too many choices. We know that it should be working but alas....


Since the DECA nodes are there, the green LED should be lit too.
Figure the ethernet cable is merely a "temp fix" that lets you verify everything else is working.
Once you have a second receiver connected, you might try the WCCK "just to prove" it isn't the 34 [which I don't think it is, but.....]


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> So just to confirm since I will be connecting the HR34 directly to the router, I should "NOT" have anything plugged into the ethernet jack on the CCK? Obviously I will have to add the HR34's mac address to the router's filter though.


Two connections to your router will cause problems, but since the WCCK doesn't seem to be working, even leaving it connected shouldn't matter, and if it does, that might give a good troubleshooting data point.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> Since the DECA nodes are there, the green LED should be lit too.
> Figure the ethernet cable is merely a "temp fix" that lets you verify everything else is working.
> Once you have a second receiver connected, you might try the WCCK "just to prove" it isn't the 34 [which I don't think it is, but.....]


As soon as I unplugged the cable from the CCK jack the green coax light lit up. I then verified that the cable itself "was" good, so still not sure why it wasn't working but it does now and I have verified internet access. I still hope to run the ethernet cable from the CCK to my router as the Ethernet cable laying next to the baseboard is not the way my wife likes it (actually neither do I).

We'll see how the rest of the install goes Sunday.

Thanks VOS!


----------



## rmmccann

Well, since VOS seems to be the man to ask about these sorts of things, I hope maybe you can answer a quick question for me?

I've been reading on here about splitters and loss and how it can affect rain fade and things like that. I have a question on my installation I want to verify to see if it has any effect on my total system loss.

I have a SWM system and I'm assuming there's a SWM-8 multiswitch on the roof by the dish (it's not in my cable box on the outside of the house and I've never been up close and personal with the dish, I just know I have support for 8 tuners). From the dish, the cable runs into a box on the house and into a 4 way splitter.

On that splitter, line 1 (power passthrough) goes to my office and hooks into another 4 way splitter (all I had at the time). Line1 on that splitter goes to the SWM power injector and a CCK that's connected to the power injector. Line 2 on that splitter goes to an Hr24 receiver. Lines 3 and 4 are terminated with the little caps.

Back on the main splitter, line 2 goes to an H24 DVR, line 3 goes to another Hr24 receiver and line 4 goes to another H24 DVR. There are no other splitters or breaks in the cable.

I'm wondering if the 4-way splitter in my office connected to the power injector is going to have any effect on the total system loss of my setup or if it would only likely have any effect on the Hr24 connected to the same switch. Rain fade isn't terrible on all receivers, but I do get 771 errors from time to time, especially on the DVRs - even when the weather (both near and to the south) is clear and beautiful.

Thoughts?


----------



## veryoldschool

rmmccann said:


> Well, since VOS seems to be the man to ask about these sorts of things, I hope maybe you can answer a quick question for me?
> 
> I've been reading on here about splitters and loss and how it can affect rain fade and things like that. I have a question on my installation I want to verify to see if it has any effect on my total system loss.
> 
> I have a SWM system and I'm assuming there's a SWM-8 multiswitch on the roof by the dish (it's not in my cable box on the outside of the house and I've never been up close and personal with the dish, I just know I have support for 8 tuners). From the dish, the cable runs into a box on the house and into a 4 way splitter.
> 
> On that splitter, line 1 (power passthrough) goes to my office and hooks into another 4 way splitter (all I had at the time). Line1 on that splitter goes to the SWM power injector and a CCK that's connected to the power injector. Line 2 on that splitter goes to an Hr24 receiver. Lines 3 and 4 are terminated with the little caps.
> 
> Back on the main splitter, line 2 goes to an H24 DVR, line 3 goes to another Hr24 receiver and line 4 goes to another H24 DVR. There are no other splitters or breaks in the cable.
> 
> I'm wondering if the 4-way splitter in my office connected to the power injector is going to have any effect on the total system loss of my setup or if it would only likely have any effect on the Hr24 connected to the same switch. Rain fade isn't terrible on all receivers, but I do get 771 errors from time to time, especially on the DVRs - even when the weather (both near and to the south) is clear and beautiful.
> 
> Thoughts?


"More than likely" you have a SWiMLNB on the dish.
The first splitter looks to be a good choice.
The second splitter isn't a good choice, so swapping it for a 2-way would increase the signal level to the HR24. This won't change the levels to the other receivers, as the power split to them is before this.
If you have rain fade on the other receivers, the only place to help would be at the dish by making sure it's aligned as well as it can.
Now if the office receiver is the first to show rainfade, changing the splitter "should help" by a few dB.
Some recent testing has shown the LNB to be the limiting factor in rainfade, so there isn't anything that can be done after the LNB to improve this. You can make it worse with too much loss, but if the loss between the receiver and SWiM is "only" 30 dB, it's within the operational range and nothing will improve rainfade other than a better aligned dish, or moving to a larger dish, to increase the gain there.


----------



## rmmccann

Thanks VOS. I hardly use the receiver in the office (only on Sundays during the NFL season) so I'm not worried about loss so much there; just wanted to make sure that it wasn't having a negative effect on everything else.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> So this shows the HR34 being node 0 and one other DECA being node 1 with a MAC of 90A4DE16460.
> Do you only have a HR34 and the WCCK?


VOS, Here are my latest Coax Network stats;

I experienced a Whole Home DVR failure 3 times while watching a recording on a HR24 that was on the HR34. I don't know what to make of these readings.... any thoughts? It just lost the connection, it took about 20 seconds and the list showed the show again and I resumed.....3 times though.



Node Ids Friendly Names MAC Address Phy Levels

0 14D4FE6F552B -28 
1 NODE-FFFFFFF90A4DED1646D FFFFFFF90A4DED&#8230;&#8230; -26 
2 NODE-FFFFFFFDCD3216A0172 FFFFFFFDCD3216&#8230;&#8230; N/A 
3 NODE-FFFFFFFDCD32169FD5C FFFFFFFDCD3216&#8230;&#8230; -24


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> VOS, Here are my latest Coax Network stats;
> 
> I experienced a Whole Home DVR failure 3 times while watching a recording on a HR24 that was on the HR34. I don't know what to make of these readings.... any thoughts? It just lost the connection, it took about 20 seconds and the list showed the show again and I resumed.....3 times though.
> 
> Node Ids Friendly Names MAC Address  Phy Levels
> 
> 0 14D4FE6F552B -28
> 1 NODE-FFFFFFF90A4DED1646D FFFFFFF90A4DED&#8230;&#8230; -26
> 2 NODE-FFFFFFFDCD3216A0172 FFFFFFFDCD3216&#8230;&#8230; N/A
> 3 NODE-FFFFFFFDCD32169FD5C FFFFFFFDCD3216&#8230;&#8230; -24


Your levels are good, or the losses between nodes are well within range.
Did this screen show "dropped sessions", or was the count 0?

The next thing to look at are the Phy rate Mesh, which is the second test that you run.
It will display a matrix of the nodes across the top and down the left side.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> Your levels are good, or the losses between nodes are well within range.
> Did this screen show "dropped sessions", or was the count 0?
> 
> The next thing to look at are the Phy rate Mesh, which is the second test that you run.
> It will display a matrix of the nodes across the top and down the left side.


Yes, sorry about that, dropped sessions was count 0.

Nds	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	
0	246	249	249	251 
1	249	242	247	248 
2	247	251	238	247 
3	252	250	250	247 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15

I've also attached a Excel page with the proper columns.

Thanks VOS

.


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## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Yes, sorry about that, dropped sessions was count 0.
> 
> Nds 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
> 0 246 249 249 251
> 1 249 242 247 248
> 2 247 251 238 247
> 3 252 250 250 247
> 
> I've also attached a Excel page with the proper columns.
> 
> Thanks VOS
> 
> .


So what it looks like here is the DECA networking isn't the problem.
If I understand the problem, it's the HR34 causing issues sending the signal to the HR24, which is expected to be addressed with a software update "soon".
If you scan the* HR34: Version 0x054C Issues/Discussion *thread you should see similar issues.


----------



## Sunner73

I'll be checking out that thread. 
At least my coax network is working. 
Thanks VOS


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> I'll be checking out that thread.
> At least my coax network is working.
> Thanks VOS


"Well" we know what it isn't. :lol:


----------



## icewiz

Suggested that I post my sudden 771A error question here for VOS. Ive read a bunch of your posts all over and hope you are the gut to help. Next stop after this is directv service call

Since I don't want to double post... http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=206348

Many thanks!


----------



## Phil17108

I have a SWM8 with an HR 23 on one drop and the power inserter on the other with a 4 way splitter feeding a HR21 & HR24 with the CCK on 3rd drop with the unused output caped. I am planing to replace the HR23 with HR34 and the SMW8 with a 16. I see the SMW 16 has a port for the power inserter, can it be powered the same way the SMW8 through the signal port?
Thanks VOS


----------



## veryoldschool

Phil17108 said:


> I have a SWM8 with an HR 23 on one drop and the power inserter on the other with a 4 way splitter feeding a HR21 & HR24 with the CCK on 3rd drop with the unused output caped. I am planing to replace the HR23 with HR34 and the SMW8 with a 16. I see the SMW 16 has a port for the power inserter, can it be powered the same way the SMW8 through the signal port?
> Thanks VOS


Yes, both the SWM8 & SWiM-16 can be powered through the #1 SWM output.

The SWM8 can also be powered through the #3 legacy port, which is how it's done by MDUs who stack SWM8s in the utility room.

The SWiM-16 simply added a PWR port/connector for this.
If the PI is mounted near the SWiM, using the legacy [SWM8] or the power connecter makes it easier.


----------



## Phil17108

OK, thanks for the quick answer to my question VOS. All I need do is replace equipment.
Does a 16 get hotter then an 8, and can the 34 program the other dvr's to recored or can the others program the 34 to recored. Thanks again.


----------



## veryoldschool

Phil17108 said:


> OK, thanks for the quick answer to my question VOS. All I need do is replace equipment.
> Does a 16 get hotter then an 8, and can the 34 program the other dvr's to recored or can the others program the 34 to recored. Thanks again.


The -16 does run hotter than the SWM8.
No DVR can setup a recording on another DVR. Only receivers have this option.


----------



## onin24eagle

I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask this, but i've spent all morning reading and can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for. I just bought a new Plasma and my first Bluray player and I'm experiencing some issues. When I set the resolution on my HR20-100 to 1080, all of the old TV's in other locations get a message talking about the TV or cables not being HD. Are there newer STB's that will solve the problem? Currently I have 2 HR20-100's running into a Russound 6 zone whole home system. One HR20 also feeds the new Plasma via HDMI and the other HR20 feeds my Projector via Component. I'd like to be able to watch the new TV in 1080 without it affecting the TV's hooked up the Russound system. 
One final question is does the HR20-100 put out 1080P?
Thanks...


----------



## veryoldschool

onin24eagle said:


> I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask this, but i've spent all morning reading and can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for. I just bought a new Plasma and my first Bluray player and I'm experiencing some issues. When I set the resolution on my HR20-100 to 1080, all of the old TV's in other locations get a message talking about the TV or cables not being HD. Are there newer STB's that will solve the problem? Currently I have 2 HR20-100's running into a Russound 6 zone whole home system. One HR20 also feeds the new Plasma via HDMI and the other HR20 feeds my Projector via Component. I'd like to be able to watch the new TV in 1080 without it affecting the TV's hooked up the Russound system.
> One final question is does the HR20-100 put out 1080P?
> Thanks...


[easy first] yes the HR20-100 outputs 1080p "but" it only does for programs that come in 1080p/24. It doesn't upconvert to 1080p.

Now for the not so nice, you're feeding your Russound system with a composite or S-Video output, so it's SD and when tuned to HD you get the message.
The only way around it is to change the output to 480 [press and hold the exit button let's you toggle SD/HD], or to feed your Russound system from component and use a converter for S-Video/composite.


----------



## onin24eagle

veryoldschool said:


> [easy first] yes the HR20-100 outputs 1080p "but" it only does for programs that come in 1080p/24. It doesn't upconvert to 1080p.
> 
> Now for the not so nice, you're feeding your Russound system with a composite or S-Video output, so it's SD and when tuned to HD you get the message.
> The only way around it is to change the output to 480 [press and hold the exit button let's you toggle SD/HD], or to feed your Russound system from component and use a converter for S-Video/composite.


Thanks VOS, maybe a component to composite converter is the quick and easy answer. I'm also considering swapping out the HR20 as the antenna tuner seems to be going out in it. Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll just get a 3rd STB dedicated to the new plasma.


----------



## bondoo0

Hopefully a quick question. 

My setup is a SWiM LNB, 4 way splitter, an HR34, HR24, and H25 and a PI.

Originally it was setup as LNB -> PI -> 4 Way splitter, with one line of splitter terminated. My question is, would I be better off moving the PI to the terminated port of the splitter, or leaving it where it is?

Everything seems to be working, but the past few days on the HR-34, I've been getting a 775 (Can't detect SWiM message), which is cleared by doing a system test. Message only shows up on HR34, and all receivers and WH appear to be working fine.


----------



## veryoldschool

bondoo0 said:


> Hopefully a quick question.
> 
> My setup is a SWiM LNB, 4 way splitter, an HR34, HR24, and H25 and a PI.
> 
> Originally it was setup as LNB -> PI -> 4 Way splitter, with one line of splitter terminated. My question is, would I be better off moving the PI to the terminated port of the splitter, or leaving it where it is?
> 
> Everything seems to be working, but the past few days on the HR-34, I've been getting a 775 (Can't detect SWiM message), which is cleared by doing a system test. Message only shows up on HR34, and all receivers and WH appear to be working fine.


Since I used the LNB->PI->splitter config, I don't see a problem.

Now if you think or need to see if the PI placement will affect this, then make sure you connect it to the far left port of the splitter, as it's the only power passing port and then use the termination from that port on the PI to receiver port.


----------



## bondoo0

Thanks VOS, I'll just leave it like it is. Any ideas what could be causing the 775 Error to pop up every day?


----------



## veryoldschool

bondoo0 said:


> Thanks VOS, I'll just leave it like it is. Any ideas what could be causing the 775 Error to pop up every day?


I would first need to know what the 775 error is :shrug:

771, 771A, 771B, and 772 are listed, but nothing for 775


----------



## bondoo0

Sorry, thought I mentioned it in my previous post. It is a pop up on my HR-34 and when I click on more info it tells me "unable to detect SWiM". It pops up in the every morning for the past few days, but usually no functionality seems impacted (timers still record still shows live TV), and it is cleared by doing a system test (first option under settings), which comes back saying all results are OK.


----------



## veryoldschool

bondoo0 said:


> Sorry, thought I mentioned it in my previous post. It is a pop up on my HR-34 and when I click on more info it tells me "unable to detect SWiM". It pops up in the every morning for the past few days, but usually no functionality seems impacted (timers still record still shows live TV), and it is cleared by doing a system test (first option under settings), which comes back saying all results are OK.


Maybe a bug in the 34's software, but it sounds like:

*771A* Problem Communicating w/ Dish

When I setup my 34 a week or so ago, it was failing in the SAT setup screen for several SATs, even/odd TPs, during the install.
"The thing is" the same location/coax worked fine with my 24.
Loaded some test software later, and at some point re-ran setup and it didn't have any problems.


----------



## FlyingmWY

vos,

Just upgraded to R24 and installer installed a SWM set up. I have the Cinema Connection Kit on the way. I will hook it up to the R24 with the coax connection. What will I need to get the R22 in my bedroom connected?


----------



## veryoldschool

FlyingmWY said:


> vos,
> 
> Just upgraded to R24 and installer installed a SWM set up. I have the Cinema Connection Kit on the way. I will hook it up to the R24 with the coax connection. What will I need to get the R22 in my bedroom connected?


Something that looks like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=DECA1MR01&d=DIRECTV-Ethernet-Coax-Adapter-DECA--(DECA1MR01)

You might call DirecTV and see if they will send you one.


----------



## FlyingmWY

Thanks guys! I will call D......


----------



## FlyingmWY

Another probably very stupid question. After installing the Deca I would assume I would do a box reset on the R22. When setting up the network will I chose wireless, or wired, or will it find and connect?


----------



## veryoldschool

FlyingmWY said:


> Another probably very stupid question. After installing the Deca I would assume I would do a box reset on the R22. When setting up the network will I chose wireless, or wired, or will it find and connect?


The stupid or dumb ones are those not asked.

A "reboot" should be all you need once it's been installed.

Should you find you need more, this would be a wired connection, unless you also need to setup a wireless link to your router.


----------



## FlyingmWY

Thank you very much!!!!!


----------



## onin24eagle

Got my component to composite converter today. Snap to hook up to my Russound CAV system, and worked like a charm. Now I can watch full 1080 on the main TV and not have switch to 480 on the other TV's to use the guide, etc. Thanks again VOS!


----------



## bigmac94

Can I ask a HR21-100 Connection For VOS whole home Question?


----------



## veryoldschool

bigmac94 said:


> Can I ask a HR21-100 Connection For VOS whole home Question?


Sure, but the HR21-100 is no different to connect than everything else "but the HR20-100".


----------



## bigmac94

veryoldschool said:


> Sure, but the HR21-100 is no different to connect than everything else "but the HR20-100".


I`m Very Glad Y`All said that... Thought my troubles might be in The machine..
Now... My troubles started a few days ago. Took advantage of a Recient Promo by DirectV in they offered a free HDDVR and I took it.
Now HR21-100 was Reconditioned but it does not matter for now...
My setup has 3 other HDHR21-700s.and we had a H25 as the 4th in the setup.. Mention this for the reason we simply replaced the H25 with The HR21-100 just switched the two machines with the proper wires going to the proper places. Now I thought I had a handle on this however Cannot get the HR21-100 to get online... no matter what I do,Kinda Stuck...


----------



## veryoldschool

bigmac94 said:


> I`m Very Glad Y`All said that... Thought my troubles might be in The machine..
> Now... My troubles started a few days ago. Took advantage of a Recient Promo by DirectV in they offered a free HDDVR and I took it.
> Now HR21-100 was Reconditioned but it does not matter for now...
> My setup has 3 other HDHR21-700s.and we had a H25 as the 4th in the setup.. Mention this for the reason we simply replaced the H25 with The HR21-100 just switched the two machines with the proper wires going to the proper places. Now I thought I had a handle on this however Cannot get the HR21-100 to get online... no matter what I do,Kinda Stuck...


So maybe the next question is does the DECA needed to be on the "new" HR21-100 have three green lights?


----------



## bigmac94

veryoldschool said:


> So maybe the next question is does the DECA needed to be on the "new" HR21-100 have three green lights?


Yes... All lights are lit.. However its not connected to the HR21-100 as The DECA goes directly to the Router. VOS the setup as is worked for some time only change I made was to Change out the H25 with the HR21-100 its perplexing. also ran the imanedgecutter,Bringmrvback,mrvclienton,widgetson
out of Ideas


----------



## veryoldschool

bigmac94 said:


> Yes... All lights are lit.. However its not connected to the HR21-100 as *The DECA goes directly to the Router*. VOS the setup as is worked for some time only change I made was to Change out the H25 with the HR21-100 its perplexing. also ran the imanedgecutter,Bringmrvback,mrvclienton,widgetson
> out of Ideas


Well there's your problem. The DECA on the HR21-100 has to connect to the ethernet port of the 21.

If you're trying to do "double duty" it needs a switch:










Your other receivers are connected like this:










So when you swapped the H25 out, "I figured" you knew how to connect the right DECA to the HR21, but it sounds like you have a CCK next to the H25, and not the right DECA for the HR21.


----------



## bigmac94

veryoldschool said:


> Well there's your problem. The DECA on the HR21-100 has to connect to the ethernet port of the 21.
> 
> If you're trying to do "double duty" it needs a switch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your other receivers are connected like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So when you swapped the H25 out, "I figured" you knew how to connect the right DECA to the HR21, but it sounds like you have a CCK next to the H25, and not the right DECA for the HR21.


Thank You My Friend... Used the top Pic to set up the HR21-100 and it worked like a charm first time!!!


----------



## gregftlaud

Btw, after i get the deca ethernet adaptor attached to the HR21 and bridged to my hr34.... do i need to go into network settings on the 21 and repeat network setup or do i need to go into the advanced setup and plug in the IP of the 34 ......or?


----------



## veryoldschool

gregftlaud said:


> Btw, after i get the deca ethernet adaptor attached to the HR21 and bridged to my hr34.... do i need to go into network settings on the 21 and repeat network setup or do i need to go into the advanced setup and plug in the IP of the 34 ......or?


Seems like this has already been answered: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=3057181#post3057181

If you're currently not using advanced network settings, then changing from an ethernet connection to a DECA connected to the same ethernet port, shouldn't require anything, as they're both hardwired to your router.


----------



## gregftlaud

I am using advanced network settings as i have my receivers setup on static ip's


----------



## veryoldschool

gregftlaud said:


> I am using advanced network settings as i have my receivers setup on static ip's


It should still swap over without problems.
Should you have any, reset the network defaults and use "connect now".


----------



## gregftlaud

I've read up on DECA last nite about connecting the ethernet cable coming from the coax ethernet adaptor into the top ethernet port (for DECA) on the hr21. 

But since i'm bridging this thru my 34 do i keep the connection from the deca adaptor on the bottom ethernet port on the hr21 or do the top?


----------



## veryoldschool

gregftlaud said:


> I've read up on DECA last nite about connecting the ethernet cable coming from the coax ethernet adaptor into the top ethernet port (for DECA) on the hr21.
> 
> But since i'm bridging this thru my 34 do i keep the connection from the deca adaptor on the bottom ethernet port on the hr21 or do the top?


Only one port on the HR21 is the primary, and the secondary shouldn't be used.

It should be the top port, but there have been glitches where these receivers have swapped ports for primary.

The primary connects without problems, while the secondary can cause various network issues.

Not being there, I can't "for sure" tell you top or bottom.


----------



## gregftlaud

Well right now i'm using the bottom ethernet port on the 21 for my hardwired connection. I guess when i get my coax deca ethernet adaptor tomorrow i'll switch to the top port as instructed but if that doesnt work then try the bottom.

EDIT: I just took the hardwired connection to the 21 and switched it to the top port and it connects to the internet fine too. Unusual for me b/c the last receiver that i had with two ethernet ports was my old HR20-100 and only one of them wuld work to connect to the internet.


----------



## veryoldschool

And the newer receivers have gone to "one or none".


----------



## gregftlaud

Which hd-dvr's dont have an ethernet port?


----------



## veryoldschool

gregftlaud said:


> Which hd-dvr's dont have an ethernet port?


I said "receivers" to include the H25, which is DECA only.


----------



## kjsmithtx

Just had D* install an upgrade the other day to add an HR34 to my system and change from a SWM-8 to a SWM-16. HR34 could not get activated due to failure on 103 odd and even tests so tech got a waiver after troubleshooting with D*. The HR34 continues to pixelate, get 771 and periodically 771A errors. Tech is supposed to come back on Monday, but I want to see if I can do some initial legwork to help get this resolved.

Current setup looks like this:
Slimline5->SWM-16->PI on dedicated PWR port
SWM1->2way splitter-> HR34 & HR24
SWM2->2 way splitter-> HR24 & 4way splitter->CCK & HR24 & DECA->HR20 & terminated unused port

I never have any pixelation or issues on any of the other DVRs. If I view signal strength on the HR34 for 103ca I consistently see one of the tuners (varies depending on reboots) that is 8-10 points lower than the other 4 tuners. This causes my lowest reading on transponder 10 to be in the mid 70s for this one tuner. Other sats are also lower on this tuner, but usually only 2-4 points. Any ideas?


----------



## veryoldschool

kjsmithtx said:


> Just had D* install an upgrade the other day to add an HR34 to my system and change from a SWM-8 to a SWM-16. HR34 could not get activated due to failure on 103 odd and even tests so tech got a waiver after troubleshooting with D*. The HR34 continues to pixelate, get 771 and periodically 771A errors. Tech is supposed to come back on Monday, but I want to see if I can do some initial legwork to help get this resolved.
> 
> Current setup looks like this:
> Slimline5->SWM-16->PI on dedicated PWR port
> SWM1->2way splitter-> HR34 & HR24
> SWM2->2 way splitter-> HR24 & 4way splitter->CCK & HR24 & DECA->HR20 & terminated unused port
> 
> I never have any pixelation or issues on any of the other DVRs. If I view signal strength on the HR34 for 103ca I consistently see one of the tuners (varies depending on reboots) that is 8-10 points lower than the other 4 tuners. This causes my lowest reading on transponder 10 to be in the mid 70s for this one tuner. Other sats are also lower on this tuner, but usually only 2-4 points. Any ideas?


This was much like my HR34, where it failed a few like yours. I put it where I had a HR24, so I knew the coax/signals were good.
Which version of software is it running?
Mine got an update and last time I checked it passed the same tests it failed before.
I don't have pixelation, so that may be a sign of something else, but your setup doesn't look like it should be a problem.


----------



## kjsmithtx

veryoldschool said:


> This was much like my HR34, where it failed a few like yours. I put it where I had a HR24, so I knew the coax/signals were good.
> Which version of software is it running?
> Mine got an update and last time I checked it passed the same tests it failed before.
> I don't have pixelation, so that may be a sign of something else, but your setup doesn't look like it should be a problem.


I am on 54c. I agree, it should work flawlessly. I did a system test and it passed. Then I did something that I can pretty much count on causing it to stop working, that is activating DLB and changing to another channel. Sure enough, no more picture. Re-ran system test and it gave code 49-025 with text to the effect that it couldn't register swim channels and might have too many receivers. There are only the HR34 & HR24 on this leg (7 tuners) and 2 HR24 plus an HR20-700 on the other leg (6 tuners). Do you thing the SWM-16 or PI could be bad? Really bothering me about that 1 tuner always showing 8-10 points lower on the 103ca. Could you check yours to compare?


----------



## veryoldschool

kjsmithtx said:


> I am on 54c. I agree, it should work flawlessly. I did a system test and it passed. Then I did something that I can pretty much count on causing it to stop working, that is activating DLB and changing to another channel. Sure enough, no more picture. Re-ran system test and it gave code 49-025 with text to the effect that it couldn't register swim channels and might have too many receivers. There are only the HR34 & HR24 on this leg (7 tuners) and 2 HR24 plus an HR20-700 on the other leg (6 tuners). Do you thing the SWM-16 or PI could be bad? Really bothering me about that 1 tuner always showing 8-10 points lower on the 103ca. Could you check yours to compare?


The 49 error code troubles me.
My tuners are all within a couple of points.

The first thing I'd do is to put both receivers on this SWiM output on the SAT screen, and then check the SWM screen to see if there are any zeros.
With both receivers on this screen there shouldn't be any.
Then I'd have the other receiver exit the SAT menu, and check the 34's screen to see a zero or two show up as the other tuners have now taken over those channels.

You might do the same for the receivers on the other SWiM leg.

"Now maybe" you do have some receivers mixed up as to which legs they're really connected to.

This test would show if that's the case.

If not, then another thing might be to swap the two legs and see what you get.


----------



## kjsmithtx

veryoldschool said:


> The 49 error code troubles me.
> My tuners are all within a couple of points.
> 
> The first thing I'd do is to put both receivers on this SWiM output on the SAT screen, and then check the SWM screen to see if there are any zeros.
> With both receivers on this screen there shouldn't be any.
> Then I'd have the other receiver exit the SAT menu, and check the 34's screen to see a zero or two show up as the other tuners have now taken over those channels.
> 
> You might do the same for the receivers on the other SWiM leg.
> 
> "Now maybe" you do have some receivers mixed up as to which legs they're really connected to.
> 
> This test would show if that's the case.
> 
> If not, then another thing might be to swap the two legs and see what you get.


Ok, lots of info. Putting both in the SWM menu shows all transponders available between 97 and 100 strength. Dropping HR24 out shows 2 TPs now at 0. Put HR24 back in SWM menu all show available again, drop HR34 out and only 1 of the TPs shows zero. Start recording that station and change to another, now 2 TPs show zero. So it appears the HR34 only allocates SWM TPs as needed, unlike all other HRs. Finally get to recording 4 stations and change to a different live station shows all 5 TPs at zero. Then I do double play on HR34 and immediately get pixelation and 771. Back on HR24 SWM menu slowly shows each of the TPs coming back as available, until all are available. On HR34 SWM menu, all TPs now show zero. Seems like maybe a bad HR34? As I said, using double play is sure to cause the issue, now it seems like that causes a loss of communication with the SWM.


----------



## veryoldschool

kjsmithtx said:


> Ok, lots of info. Putting both in the SWM menu shows all transponders available between 97 and 100 strength. Dropping HR24 out shows 2 TPs now at 0. Put HR24 back in SWM menu all show available again, drop HR34 out and only 1 of the TPs shows zero. Start recording that station and change to another, now 2 TPs show zero. So it appears the HR34 only allocates SWM TPs as needed, unlike all other HRs. Finally get to recording 4 stations and change to a different live station shows all 5 TPs at zero. Then I do double play on HR34 and immediately get pixelation and 771. Back on HR24 SWM menu slowly shows each of the TPs coming back as available, until all are available. On HR34 SWM menu, all TPs now show zero. Seems like maybe a bad HR34? As I said, using double play is sure to cause the issue, now it seems like that causes a loss of communication with the SWM.


This does suggest there's something strange going on with that HR34.


----------



## iceman2a

*Setup*:
HR34, hardwired ethernet to router, no CCK
HR21 DECCA
2 H21 DECCA

I want to take one of the h21's out of the mix to a location where it does'n need MRV. Use it's DECCA on a HR20/700

*Question:*Do I need a BSF for the h21 that does not need MRV!


----------



## Beerstalker

Yes, any H/HR2x model receivers that don't have DECA built into them need to have a BSF in place if they are on a SWM system where DECA is being used and they don't have their own DECA.


----------



## iceman2a

Beerstalker said:


> Yes, any H/HR2x model receivers that don't have DECA built into them need to have a BSF in place if they are on a SWM system where DECA is being used and they don't have their own DECA.


Thank you for the quick reply! I might just get another DECCA!


----------



## mjwagner

I have had WH since it was first available running in unsupported mode using my wired Ethernet network. I recently replaced my aging HR20-700 with an HR34-700. At the same time I moved to DECA using the HR34 as the CCK. I revoked all existing IP addresses for my networked rcvrs on my router and rebooted them all. I noticed that they still have IP addresses assigned by my router. Is that normal. Everything seems to be working fine and they all see each other. Is this WAD?


----------



## veryoldschool

mjwagner said:


> I have had WH since it was first available running in unsupported mode using my wired Ethernet network. I recently replaced my aging HR20-700 with an HR34-700. At the same time I moved to DECA using the HR34 as the CCK. I revoked all existing IP addresses for my networked rcvrs on my router and rebooted them all. I noticed that they still have IP addresses assigned by my router. Is that normal. Everything seems to be working fine and they all see each other. Is this WAD?


 All the receivers connected to your router will get IP addresses assigned from the router though DHCP.

If you removed the connection to the router, when the receivers reboot, they shift to their internal IP addresses starting with 169.xxx


----------



## mjwagner

"veryoldschool" said:


> All the receivers connected to your router will get IP addresses assigned from the router though DHCP.
> 
> If you removed the connection to the router, when the receivers reboot, they shift to their internal IP addresses starting with 169.xxx


My HR34 is connected to my router using the Ethernet port. My other two networked rcvrs are using the DECA adapters. Those two are still getting IP addresses assigned by the router and I see them in the routers list of devices?


----------



## veryoldschool

mjwagner said:


> My HR34 is connected to my router using the Ethernet port. My other two networked rcvrs are using the DECA adapters. Those two are still getting IP addresses assigned by the router and I see them in the routers list of devices?


"Right", as they're connected to your router through the HR34 coax network.


----------



## mjwagner

veryoldschool said:


> "Right", as they're connected to your router through the HR34 coax network.


so then WAD and I don't need to do anything else? Just checking as I am new to DECA but not new to WH...

Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

mjwagner said:


> so then WAD and I don't need to do anything else? Just checking as I am new to DECA but not new to WH...
> 
> Thanks!


I have no clue what WAD is, but it's working as it should be.


----------



## mjwagner

veryoldschool said:


> I have no clue what WAD is, but it's working as it should be.


 Sorry, Working As Designed (WAD).


----------



## veryoldschool

mjwagner said:


> Sorry, Working As Designed (WAD).


SOP :lol:


----------



## cwdonahue

My dish got bumped out of whack and had to be realigned. The technician was required to verify that my DVR was connected to the internet before he left. He hit "restore defaults" and miraculously everything worked and he left.

At this point, I got into damage control mode. I use a WGA600N gaming adapter as a wireless bridge. I had a static IP address configured, because way back when I set this up, I had to do that to get it to work. Change things back to the static IP address and things don't work.

At this point, I have verified that WGA600N configuration and made sure it matches the other WGA600N I use with an H21. The router sees the WGA600N, has the correct IP address assigned to it for the HR20, and I can ping other computers in my house from the 600N.
I have used Advance Settings to get all of the router address info straight in the HR20-100.
I've done reboots and full power downs on the HR20 and the WGA600N.
No matter what I do, the HR20 fails to connect to the internet. I get the ever popular "Not connected (22)" and a result code of 86-071.

Any ideas what to check. I have an HR21-700 configured in my home theater with the same settings and it works just fine. Only difference is that I use a powerline adapter to connect that DVR to my router.

Everything was great until the technician did his thing..... (grumble, grumble)


----------



## veryoldschool

cwdonahue said:


> My dish got bumped out of whack and had to be realigned. The technician was required to verify that my DVR was connected to the internet before he left. He hit "restore defaults" and miraculously everything worked and he left.
> 
> At this point, I got into damage control mode. I use a WGA600N gaming adapter as a wireless bridge. I had a static IP address configured, because way back when I set this up, I had to do that to get it to work. Change things back to the static IP address and things don't work.
> 
> At this point, I have verified that WGA600N configuration and made sure it matches the other WGA600N I use with an H21. The router sees the WGA600N, has the correct IP address assigned to it for the HR20, and I can ping other computers in my house from the 600N.
> I have used Advance Settings to get all of the router address info straight in the HR20-100.
> I've done reboots and full power downs on the HR20 and the WGA600N.
> No matter what I do, the HR20 fails to connect to the internet. I get the ever popular "Not connected (22)" and a result code of 86-071.
> 
> Any ideas what to check. I have an HR21-700 configured in my home theater with the same settings and it works just fine. Only difference is that I use a powerline adapter to connect that DVR to my router.
> 
> Everything was great until the technician did his thing..... (grumble, grumble)


So if I follow everything:
The gaming adapter is configured and connects to your router.
Once you've gone into the advanced network settings, you've lost the auto detect function, so I'd reset the network defaults [again] and reboot the HR20.
When it comes back up it should find the internet. If it doesn't, then I'd go into the network setup, "but" simply used the "connect now" option and if asked, select a wired network [since the wireless adapter is already configured].
If this works, and I wanted to go static, I'd then only change the IP address under advanced settings.
If you need to load more than the IP address, this normally [for me] means I've got other problems and don't get very much success entering everything manually.


----------



## cwdonahue

veryoldschool said:


> So if I follow everything:
> The gaming adapter is configured and connects to your router.
> Once you've gone into the advanced network settings, you've lost the auto detect function, so I'd reset the network defaults [again] and reboot the HR20.
> When it comes back up it should find the internet. If it doesn't, then I'd go into the network setup, "but" simply used the "connect now" option and if asked, select a wired network [since the wireless adapter is already configured].
> If this works, and I wanted to go static, I'd then only change the IP address under advanced settings.
> If you need to load more than the IP address, this normally [for me] means I've got other problems and don't get very much success entering everything manually.


Thanks for the guidance, but it looks like something else was the problem...heat. I was going to have some time today to play with the configuration with everyone out of the house. But last night, we got an error message that the HR20 was getting hot and would shutdown. Pulled it out of the cabinet, took a look, and nothing was clogging up the fan or airflow. Reinstalled it after it cooled off and noticed that the fan seemed rather silent. 45 mins. later, thermal shutdown. So, I have a replacement DVR on the way and hopefully that one will behave as expected. Hope the replacement is current vintage.


----------



## cwdonahue

cwdonahue said:


> Thanks for the guidance, but it looks like something else was the problem...heat. I was going to have some time today to play with the configuration with everyone out of the house. But last night, we got an error message that the HR20 was getting hot and would shutdown. Pulled it out of the cabinet, took a look, and nothing was clogging up the fan or airflow. Reinstalled it after it cooled off and noticed that the fan seemed rather silent. 45 mins. later, thermal shutdown. So, I have a replacement DVR on the way and hopefully that one will behave as expected. Hope the replacement is current vintage.


I received an HR21-200 as a replacement DVR. Since it knows how to configure itself with my WGA600n wireless adapter, setting up the network connection was a breeze. All is well for now.


----------



## geoff_g

I have 2 HR24's, a SWM8, a 1x2 splitter, and a Cinema connection kit.
Expansion is not foreseen - 2 DVRs is enough.

My connection plan is as follows:

SWM8 Port 1 to PI-29 to 1st HR24
The PI-29 will be near the SWM8 and the 1st DVR cable length is ~25'​SWM8 Port 2 to 1x2 splitter to 2nd HR24 and Cinema connection kit
The splitter and Cinema Connection Kit will also be close (<3') to the SWM8 and the 2nd DVR cable length is <60'​
Is there a better connection scheme?
Are there any minimum cable length concerns?


----------



## veryoldschool

geoff_g said:


> I have 2 HR24's, a SWM8, a 1x2 splitter, and a Cinema connection kit.
> Expansion is not foreseen - 2 DVRs is enough.
> 
> My connection plan is as follows:
> 
> SWM8 Port 1 to PI-29 to 1st HR24The PI-29 will be near the SWM8 and the 1st DVR cable length is ~25'​SWM8 Port 2 to 1x2 splitter to 2nd HR24 and Cinema connection kitThe splitter and Cinema Connection Kit will also be close (<3') to the SWM8 and the 2nd DVR cable length is <60'​Is there a better connection scheme?
> Are there any minimum cable length concerns?


The SWM8 to PI might be an issue.
If the two can't be the min 15', you can use the #3 legacy port to power it and the distance won't be a problem.


----------



## geoff_g

veryoldschool said:


> The SWM8 to PI might be an issue.
> If the two can't be the min 15', you can use the #3 legacy port to power it and the distance won't be a problem.


 Thanks much for your help - it is very much appreciated.

Is there any disadvantage to connecting the PI to Legacy Port 3?

I'm still gathering the necessary hardware and have some flexibility - I want to connect this stuff in the most efficient (lowest signal loss) manner and if there is a more optimal scheme I'm all ears.

Thanks again!


----------



## veryoldschool

geoff_g said:


> Thanks much for your help - it is very much appreciated.
> 
> Is there any disadvantage to connecting the PI to Legacy Port 3?
> 
> I'm still gathering the necessary hardware and have some flexibility - I want to connect this stuff in the most efficient (lowest signal loss) manner and if there is a more optimal scheme I'm all ears.
> 
> Thanks again!


The MDU people [who the SWM8 was made for] use the #3 all the time, so I'd say no.
Keep the dish to SWM8 coax runs short.
Use only the size splitter that you need. "Larger isn't better".


----------



## geoff_g

veryoldschool said:


> The MDU people [who the SWM8 was made for] use the #3 all the time, so I'd say no.
> Keep the dish to SWM8 coax runs short.
> Use only the size splitter that you need. "Larger isn't better".


The AT9 dish to SWM 8 runs are ~ 15'.
Understood on the splitters.....that's why I went to a 1x2 splitter on SWM8 Port 2. I was not clear on the insertion loss between SWM8 Ports 1 & 2 though (for MRV viewing).

On a side topic....how does the AT9/SWM8 combo compare to a SWM Dish for rain fade?

Again thanks for the help!


----------



## veryoldschool

geoff_g said:


> The AT9 dish to SWM 8 runs are ~ 15'.
> Understood on the splitters.....that's why I went to a 1x2 splitter on SWM8 Port 2. I was not clear on the insertion loss between SWM8 Ports 1 & 2 though (for MRV viewing).
> 
> On a side topic....how does the AT9/SWM8 combo compare to a SWM Dish for rain fade?
> 
> Again thanks for the help!


The dish to SWM8 can be 45'.
Are you really still using an AT9 [side car]? Most of those have been replaced with the AU9 "Slimline".
The SWM8 wasn't really designed with MRV in mind. Later models have had an internal bandstop filter added, but the two outputs come from an internal 2-way splitter.
All the other SWiMs now have removed internal splitters, so they have a single output [the -16 has two SWiM sections, with one output from each].
It sounds a bit like you're worrying about insertion loss "more than you should", with a SWiM system.
SWiM to farthest receiver has a loss budget of -30 dB. The performance isn't going to change if your loss is only 10 dB, or 20 dB.

SWiM has an AGC which is why it has the 30 dB loss budget. If you stay within this, "rainfade" comes when the LNB loses lock on the signal because there isn't enough to lock onto.
This "may" be a little better than a non SWiM system.

"Generally" I'd say if you're not planing on having more than 8 tuners, I'd go with the SWiM LNB & slimline dish, and a 4-way splitter. This should be the optimum for both the SWiM & DECA/whole home networking. It also gives some flexibility to add a 2-way down stream if you need to split a coax to feed two.


----------



## geoff_g

I installed the AT9 when I built my house as it was the latest version. It's worked fine in the 6 years (or so) that it's been up. The antenna is on the side of the house and its cables run into a "wiring room" about 1 story down and directly beneath the dish so the cable lengths are relatively short. I elected to leave the dish alone and install the SWM 8 rather than change to a SWM dish (or an AU9). All wiring is home run's to the wiring room using a very good belden (w/CU center conductor) RG6 cable. I presently have an HR20 and HR21 but the slow remote response really annoys me and I want MRV so I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to SWM and also upgrade the receivers (even though DirecTV says this is not an upgrade). I have not been following DirecTV hardware and did not know the SWM 8 has AGC. That is good. The SWM 8 should be in todays mail so I'll see if it has two ports. If not then I'll get a 4 way splitter.


----------



## veryoldschool

geoff_g said:


> I installed the AT9 when I built my house as it was the latest version. It's worked fine in the 6 years (or so) that it's been up. The antenna is on the side of the house and its cables run into a "wiring room" about 1 story down and directly beneath the dish so the cable lengths are relatively short. I elected to leave the dish alone and install the SWM 8 rather than change to a SWM dish (or an AU9). All wiring is home run's to the wiring room using a very good belden (w/CU center conductor) RG6 cable. I presently have an HR20 and HR21 but the slow remote response really annoys me and I want MRV so I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to SWM and also upgrade the receivers (even though DirecTV says this is not an upgrade). I have not been following DirecTV hardware and did not know the SWM 8 has AGC. That is good. The SWM 8 should be in todays mail so *I'll see if it has two ports*. If not then I'll get a 4 way splitter.


It will and the second has a termination on it.
The exposed connectors from the 110 & 119 LNBs are a weak point of the AT9.


----------



## geoff_g

I must admit I don't like the exposed connectors but hadn't thought of them as being a reliability issue since I've never had an issue. In hindsight I probably should have changed the dish. I guess that'll eventually happen down the road ....

I wish I had a better understanding of the technology.....I've done a lot of electronics design - including several years of design with RF and communications/radar simulators - but I don't fully understand what's inside of the SWM hardware so I'm here asking dumb questions....

Thanks again,

Geoff


----------



## veryoldschool

geoff_g said:


> I must admit I don't like the exposed connectors but hadn't thought of them as being a reliability issue since I've never had an issue. In hindsight I probably should have changed the dish. I guess that'll eventually happen down the road ....
> 
> I wish I had a better understanding of the technology.....I've done a lot of electronics design - including several years of design with RF and communications/radar simulators - but I don't fully understand what's inside of the SWM hardware so I'm here asking dumb questions....
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Geoff


The SWiM is basically a "pre-tuner". Each receiver sends a request over a 2.3 MHz FSK signal. The SWiM outputs 9 [IF] "channels" from around 970 MHz to around 1,800 MHz. The lowest is common to all as it carries the guide data. 2-9 are assigned to the tuners [for the 8 max].
Inputs from -15 dBm to -45 dBm are within the AGC range for a -30 dBm output.
"DECA" uses 525-575 MHz.


----------



## geoff_g

veryoldschool said:


> The SWiM is basically a "pre-tuner". Each receiver sends a request over a 2.3 MHz FSK signal. The SWiM outputs 9 [IF] "channels" from around 970 MHz to around 1,800 MHz. The lowest is common to all as it carries the guide data. 2-9 are assigned to the tuners [for the 8 max].
> Inputs from -15 dBm to -45 dBm are within the AGC range for a -30 dBm output.
> "DECA" uses 525-575 MHz.


This helps.
And now I understand why the BBC's (and the Band Stop filter) is required.
You're a really big asset to this site!!


----------



## veryoldschool

geoff_g said:


> This helps.
> And now I understand why the BBC's (and the Band Stop filter) is required.
> You're a really big asset to this site!!


The "BBC" was an upconverter used on non SWiM because the 250-750 MHz band was below the receiver's range for all but the H/HR23.
BSF are needed with DECA since each one outputs about 0 dBm and this causes problems with tuners and the SWiM.


----------



## geoff_g

veryoldschool said:


> The "BBC" was an upconverter used on non SWiM because the 250-750 MHz band was below the receiver's range for all but the H/HR23.
> BSF are needed with DECA since each one outputs about 0 dBm and this causes problems with tuners and the SWiM.


I figured the band stop filter is used to attenuate the 525-575 DECA signals but wasn't sure of the upconversion details.


----------



## geoff_g

I've completed part of my hardware transition and the SWM stuff is now in place and both DVR's are SWMing (I have the 2 DVRs connected directly to the 2 SWM ports as I am still waiting for the 1x2 splitter and Cinema Connection kit). I connected the PI to the Legacy 3 port as suggested and everything seems to be working well so far.

I am curious tho, what is the reason behind the 15' cabling between the PI and SWM? 

Thanks again VOS!!


----------



## veryoldschool

geoff_g said:


> I've completed part of my hardware transition and the SWM stuff is now in place and both DVR's are SWMing (I have the 2 DVRs connected directly to the 2 SWM ports as I am still waiting for the 1x2 splitter and Cinema Connection kit). I connected the PI to the Legacy 3 port as suggested and everything seems to be working well so far.
> 
> I am curious tho, what is the reason behind the 15' cabling between the PI and SWM?
> 
> Thanks again VOS!!


The DC block [cap] in the PI can cause some issues, so either line length or a splitters adds a resistive component to the impedance and helps.


----------



## geoff_g

veryoldschool said:


> The DC block [cap] in the PI can cause some issues, so either line length or a splitters adds a resistive component to the impedance and helps.


That makes some sense. I imagine the wide signal frequency range doesn't help.


----------



## Jnelson

I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but I could not find.
I'm getting an HR34 installed into a system with: 3 HR22s and 1 HR20-700, all connected with ethernet to router. Will I need DECAs for each of the existing receivers even tho HR34 will be acting as CCK? Is there a diagram anywhere showing a set up with HR34 in the system?


----------



## veryoldschool

Jnelson said:


> I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but I could not find.
> I'm getting an HR34 installed into a system with: 3 HR22s and 1 HR20-700, all connected with ethernet to router. Will I need DECAs for each of the existing receivers even tho HR34 will be acting as CCK? Is there a diagram anywhere showing a set up with HR34 in the system?


I'd guess you're going to end up with a SWiM-16 because of the tuner count, and a DECA on each of the HR2x, and a CCK. The HR34 can do the same as a CCK, but installers are told to use a CCK [and get paid to install it].

Here's a setup from another user http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=208197


----------



## Sunner73

Hi VOS,

It been over 2 months since I've got a HR34 and 2-HR24s and all has been good but......

In the last 2 weeks I've noticed multiple shows recorded on one HR that when I select to watch there is no "play, keep, delete, etc" menu on the left side of the screen. 

There is no problem watching virtually every other show recorded on that HR but only occasionally some shows, case in point on 8/20 I had recorded Alphas and Warehouse 13 and both displayed the same issue. I obviously could watch them from the TV directly connected to that HR though. It also make no difference as to when I try as I've gotten the same issue every time (day) I've tried to watch (on another HR).

I've attached an image so you can see what I'm referring to. 

Very strange, has anybody any idea of what's causing this?


----------



## veryoldschool

Sunner73 said:


> Hi VOS,
> 
> It been over 2 months since I've got a HR34 and 2-HR24s and all has been good but......
> 
> In the last 2 weeks I've noticed multiple shows recorded on one HR that when I select to watch there is no "play, keep, delete, etc" menu on the left side of the screen.
> 
> There is no problem watching virtually every other show recorded on that HR but only occasionally some shows, case in point on 8/20 I had recorded Alphas and Warehouse 13 and both displayed the same issue. I obviously could watch them from the TV directly connected to that HR though. It also make no difference as to when I try as I've gotten the same issue every time (day) I've tried to watch (on another HR).
> 
> I've attached an image so you can see what I'm referring to.
> 
> Very strange, has anybody any idea of what's causing this?


Looks like the GUI didn't completely load.
Rebooting should clear this.
You can also skip that screen completely by pressing "play" from the playlist when the show is highlighted and then delete it using the red button from the playlist when you're done.


----------



## Sunner73

veryoldschool said:


> Looks like the GUI didn't completely load.
> Rebooting should clear this.
> You can also skip that screen completely by pressing "play" from the playlist when the show is highlighted and then delete it using the red button from the playlist when you're done.


I hadn't even tried pressing the "play" button. (It works alright!)

I've rebooted the HR34 so I will see if the issue returns.

Thanks VOS


----------



## davemartella

VOS - just looking at these threads and seeing how often you provide the answer shows me what an incredible resource you are. Thanks for being so willing to share your knowledge.

I have a question regarding DirecTV's Whole Home service. My setup is as follows:
HR-34
HR-24
HR-22
HR-25.

The HR-34 was installed today. He added a SWM-16 and two blocks. One block as the HR-34 and the HR-22, the other has the HR-24 and HR-25. Content on the HR-24 can only be seen on it and the HR-25. Content on the HR-22 can only be seen on the HR-34. Content on the HR-34 can only be seen on the HR-22.

Installer says there is no way to bridge the two blocks. He says each block will only support 8 tuners, and since I have 10 tuners, there is no way for all content from the three DVR's to show up in one place.

Aside from my frustration with DirecTV for not sharing this info with me when I upgraded to the HR-34 (and with myself for not researching it first) it seems like there ought to be a way to accomplish this. Instead of Whole Home I now have two Partial Home systems - not quite the plan.

Any ideas? 

Thank you very much,

Dave


----------



## veryoldschool

davemartella said:


> VOS - just looking at these threads and seeing how often you provide the answer shows me what an incredible resource you are. Thanks for being so willing to share your knowledge.
> 
> I have a question regarding DirecTV's Whole Home service. My setup is as follows:
> HR-34
> HR-24
> HR-22
> HR-25.
> 
> The HR-34 was installed today. He added a SWM-16 and two blocks. One block as the HR-34 and the HR-22, the other has the HR-24 and HR-25. Content on the HR-24 can only be seen on it and the HR-25. Content on the HR-22 can only be seen on the HR-34. Content on the HR-34 can only be seen on the HR-22.
> 
> Installer says there is no way to bridge the two blocks. He says each block will only support 8 tuners, and since I have 10 tuners, there is no way for all content from the three DVR's to show up in one place.
> 
> Aside from my frustration with DirecTV for not sharing this info with me when I upgraded to the HR-34 (and with myself for not researching it first) it seems like there ought to be a way to accomplish this. Instead of Whole Home I now have two Partial Home systems - not quite the plan.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thank you very much,
> 
> Dave


There isn't an HR25, so maybe this is a typo for a H25.

"If it's installed correctly" they all will share, or why would it be called "Whole Home"?
The SWiM-16 has a crossover for the coax networking, so that isn't the problem.

Check the IP addresses on the receivers. Do they all match, or are some 169.xxx, while others are [say] 192.xxx?

How do they connect to your home network?


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Dave,

while we're waiting for VOS' wisdom,

the installer is full of hooey. With a properly installed SWM16 you should be able to share programming across all 16 tuners.

By "block" should I presume you mean splitter?










Something like that, perhaps?

If you are not seeing programming across the entire home, something is afoul. It seems to me that photos of the area around your SWM and the splitters being used would be a good start to helping diagnose.

For what it's worth, I speak from some experience, as I have had an HR34 with an HR24 on the same leg and two additional HR24s on the other leg and everything saw everything.

The only thing it's worth pointing out is that at the moment, I don't think that the current national release software for HR24 will let you share programming to the HR34. That is changing however.

Nonetheless all three HR2x DVRs should see each other and share programming.


----------



## davemartella

veryoldschool said:


> There isn't an HR25, so maybe this is a typo for a H25.
> 
> "If it's installed correctly" they all will share, or why would it be called "Whole Home"?
> The SWiM-16 has a crossover for the coax networking, so that isn't the problem.
> 
> Check the IP addresses on the receivers. Do they all match, or are some 169.xxx, while others are [say] 192.xxx?
> 
> How do they connect to your home network?


VOS,

You're right (of course) H25.

Installer was absolutely positive there was no way to bridge the two 8-port splitters (thanks Stuart!). Once the HR-34 was installed it functioned exactly as he described - partial home, not Whole Home. I called DirecTV and while the agent was extremely apologetic she said, "you just have too many tuners on your system and there is nothing we can do about it."

A couple of hours after the installer left the system apparently rebooted - I'm guessing a new software load? Once it was back to full operation ALL DVR content was available on ALL the boxes. Don't know if this is coincidence or divine intervention, but that seems to be working properly.

Still can't connect to the internet, but that is probably because I had to tear my network out (we painted) and am slowly getting it back together. I'm going to have to find the manual for my powerline stuff and make sure they are working properly before I panic.

Thank you for your assistance (you too Stuart Sweet!). You guys are terrific.

Dave


----------



## davemartella

Stuart Sweet said:


> Dave,
> 
> while we're waiting for VOS' wisdom,
> 
> the installer is full of hooey. With a properly installed SWM16 you should be able to share programming across all 16 tuners.
> 
> By "block" should I presume you mean splitter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something like that, perhaps?
> 
> If you are not seeing programming across the entire home, something is afoul. It seems to me that photos of the area around your SWM and the splitters being used would be a good start to helping diagnose.
> 
> For what it's worth, I speak from some experience, as I have had an HR34 with an HR24 on the same leg and two additional HR24s on the other leg and everything saw everything.
> 
> The only thing it's worth pointing out is that at the moment, I don't think that the current national release software for HR24 will let you share programming to the HR34. That is changing however.
> 
> Nonetheless all three HR2x DVRs should see each other and share programming.


Thanks Stuart! You and VOS were right on target - evidently the installer really didn't know what he was talking about.

Dave


----------



## Jnelson

Very useful info. Tech tried to install cck, but I demurred.


----------



## F1 Fan

VOS

I have a "wireless" type question for you.

I spend a lot of time out on the deck and use Directv2PC but would prefer one of my H25s out here (that and the tv are so light I can carry them in and out and not worry about leaving them out).

My problem is all my cabling is in the attic and last year I had it spray foam insulated (I can recommend it!). So now I dont want to compromise the attic and run a cable outside.

Eventually I will run a cable from somewhere outside, but I am also redoing the back deck so wont know the eventual position.

Any ideas how I can run an H25 (or C31 as not adverse to those) over wireless? I am an IT guy so the equipment and hookup is not a problem, just not sure what to hook up.

Can they use a WCCK? or a wifi adapter? Anything? Or am I just going to have to run a cable?


----------



## veryoldschool

F1 Fan said:


> VOS
> 
> I have a "wireless" type question for you.
> 
> I spend a lot of time out on the deck and use Directv2PC but would prefer one of my H25s out here (that and the tv are so light I can carry them in and out and not worry about leaving them out).
> 
> My problem is all my cabling is in the attic and last year I had it spray foam insulated (I can recommend it!). So now I dont want to compromise the attic and run a cable outside.
> 
> Eventually I will run a cable from somewhere outside, but I am also redoing the back deck so wont know the eventual position.
> 
> Any ideas how I can run an H25 (or C31 as not adverse to those) over wireless? I am an IT guy so the equipment and hookup is not a problem, just not sure what to hook up.
> 
> Can they use a WCCK? or a wifi adapter? Anything? Or am I just going to have to run a cable?


The H25, is going to need a coax connection to your SWiM. I don't know of any other option, since it has a tuner and an access card.
The C31 seems like the only option. Some [or at least one] has it working with a WCCK, which then connects to the HR34.


----------



## F1 Fan

Thanks

I will run a cable with some flexibility for the reconfiguration later.


----------



## MrLatte

Wait, what? The HR34 can't currently view shows on other HR22s via MRV or Whole Home? Is that true or does it only apply to HR24s?


----------



## veryoldschool

MrLatte said:


> Wait, what? The HR34 can't currently view shows on other HR22s via MRV or Whole Home? Is that true or does it only apply to HR24s?


There is a question about the current software for all the HR2x that may not let the HR34 view their recordings with MRV. It will be addressed in another release.


----------



## MrLatte

veryoldschool said:


> There is a question about the current software for all the HR2x that may not let the HR34 view their recordings with MRV. It will be addressed in another release.


OK, so I know it SHOULD work but now I'm wondering how much of a problem this is currently. I have an HR34 coming in 2 days and I was planning on making it my main viewing machine with a bunch of programming still on my bedroom unit and my (soon to be) 2 basement HR22s. I'd hate to do all that switching around only to have a blank DVR staring at me!


----------



## veryoldschool

MrLatte said:


> OK, so I know it SHOULD work but now I'm wondering how much of a problem this is currently. I have an HR34 coming in 2 days and I was planning on making it my main viewing machine with a bunch of programming still on my bedroom unit and my (soon to be) 2 basement HR22s. I'd hate to do all that switching around only to have a blank DVR staring at me!


Not sure if it's "should work", or will be "it will work again".
I'm not on the current national release, so as such, I've gotten the MRV to HR34 working "again".
I wish I could give you a time for you to know that "by X" you'll have it working again, but I can only say "soon".
If it becomes a big deal, a work-a-round might be to use the HR22 as it will play recordings from the 34.


----------



## veryoldschool

I did a bit of cleanup, so if your post is gone, that's why and it was asked/answered and no longer useful to this thread.


----------



## inkahauts

Question... Which would you do...

You want to hook up two swim 16s to the same dish. You will not, nor do you want to in any way bridge the two deca networks together.

Would you:

a). Run them in parallel with lines from dish being split, one line each to each swm16 input? (if so, what splitters would you use?)

B). Cascade them, one off the other?

Any advantage or disadvantage to either way over the other?

I ask because I thought I read they where designed to cascade, but DIRECTV says run them in parallel. I assume parallel because then in theory if one dies, the other is unaffected maybe?


----------



## veryoldschool

inkahauts said:


> Question... Which would you do...
> 
> You want to hook up two swim 16s to the same dish. You will not, nor do you want to in any way bridge the two deca networks together.
> 
> Would you:
> 
> a). Run them in parallel with lines from dish being split, one line each to each swm16 input? (if so, what splitters would you use?)
> 
> B). Cascade them, one off the other?
> 
> Any advantage or disadvantage to either way over the other?
> 
> I ask because I thought I read they where designed to cascade, but DIRECTV says run them in parallel. I assume parallel because then in theory if one dies, the other is unaffected maybe?


A) Skywalker 2-way splitters would be my choice to run them in parallel.
If there is a downside it's the loss of the splitters, but it may not have much affect, since rainfade for the most part is in the LNB, when the signals drop so much that the LO loses lock.

B) Cascading can also be done, but you do need to use an amp between them, because the legacy ports have significant loss. Sonora makes a 13-14 dB amp that has been used and works well.


----------



## inkahauts

"veryoldschool" said:


> A) Skywalker 2-way splitters would be my choice to run them in parallel.
> If there is a downside it's the loss of the splitters, but it may not have much affect, since rainfade for the most part is in the LNB, when the signals drop so much that the LO loses lock.
> 
> B) Cascading can also be done, but you do need to use an amp between them, because the legacy ports have significant loss. Sonora makes a 13-14 dB amp that has been used and works well.


The legacy has a lot more loss than a splitter even on a couple feet of cable? Interesting... Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

inkahauts said:


> The legacy has a lot more loss than a splitter even on a couple feet of cable? Interesting... Thanks!


A 2-way may have 5 dB, where the legacy has a good 10+ dB.


----------



## TexasJames

First ... stumbled across this thread doing a search and read it from start to finish. Awesome info! Thanks VOS for sharing so much knowledge.

Now for my question.  But let me start with the background:

I just converted/upgraded from multiswitch wiring and the old-style ethernet Whole Home (MRV) to SWiM and WDCCK/DECA. During the install my last HR20-700 was "replaced" with a HR24, so I ended up with 3 HR24s on the SWiM with a WDCCK connected to one of those, providing Whole Home and internet access over coax. I also had coax dropped in a 4th location for future use (thought I might add a HD receiver-only there).

DirecTV didn't want the HR20 back (and never even took it off the account :-( ), so after some pondering I decide to use it in that open location. I hooked it up and after reconfiguring the antenna setup and a few other changes it worked great. Except, of course, it wasn't participating in Whole Home and had no internet access. Called DirecTV and that's when I learned about DECA built-in vs. not built-in. They promptly sent me a white DECA for the HR20 and were supposed to send a band stop filter (BSF) as well. Only the BSF never showed. I called again and got conflicting info this time. Basically I was told the BSF is only needed when the CCK is on that same HR-DVR. Since my CCK was elsewhere, BSF not needed.

Reading this thread I see some mentions of the BSF:



"Beerstalker" said:


> Yes, any H/HR2x model receivers that don't have DECA built into them need to have a BSF in place if they are on a SWM system where DECA is being used and they don't have their own DECA.





"veryoldschool" said:


> ... BSF are needed with DECA since each one outputs about 0 dBm and this causes problems with tuners and the SWiM.


So now I'm leaning to the conclusion that a BSF is needed in my setup. But I'm not sure. :-( So my question is, do I need a BSF on the HR20-700, along with the DECA?

Also, I haven't connected the DECA yet as I'm trying to make sure I do it right the first time. But now I'm wondering if I should disconnect the HR20 until I do that. Am I harming the receiver by not blocking the internet signals?


----------



## veryoldschool

TexasJames said:


> So now I'm leaning to the conclusion that a BSF is needed in my setup. But I'm not sure. :-( So my question is, do I need a BSF on the HR20-700, along with the DECA?
> 
> Also, I haven't connected the DECA yet as I'm trying to make sure I do it right the first time. But now I'm wondering if I should disconnect the HR20 until I do that. Am I harming the receiver by not blocking the internet signals?


You have an HR20-700, so you don't need a BSF "if" you connect the white DECA to the SAT #1.

The whole idea is:
The DECA signal has a much higher level than all the other signals. This needs to be blocked from the receiver's SAT input, as it can cause distortion.
Using a DECA [or having one internally] does this. If the receiver doesn't have a DECA, but is connected to a SWiM with the coax networking, "then" it needs a filter to block it.

The HR20-100 is the only exception as it has a strange way to connect a DECA because it needs to connect to the SAT #2 for DC power.


----------



## TexasJames

"veryoldschool" said:


> You have an HR20-700, so you don't need a BSF "if" you connect the white DECA to the SAT #1.
> 
> The whole idea is:
> The DECA signal has a much higher level than all the other signals. This needs to be blocked from the receiver's SAT input, as it can cause distortion.
> Using a DECA [or having one internally] does this. If the receiver doesn't have a DECA, but is connected to a SWiM with the coax networking, "then" it needs a filter to block it.
> 
> The HR20-100 is the only exception as it has a strange way to connect a DECA because it needs to connect to the SAT #2 for DC power.


Thanks VOS for the quick reply and concise info.

One update. :-( I opened the DECA box to do the setup and see that I actually received a "black DECA", not a "white DECA". It is a * DCA2SR0-18 * - is the any difference in how I use that?

(Is the black DECA really the same as the wired CCK - thought I read that somewhere?)


----------



## TexasJames

"TexasJames" said:


> ... I opened the DECA box to do the setup and see that I actually received a "black DECA", not a "white DECA". It is a * DCA2SR0-18 * - is the any difference in how I use that?


Never mind! I found the First Looks on the DECA II from earlier this year. Already have the DECA installed and everything looks good so far. Thanks again!


----------



## RD in Fla

This is essentially what I suspect is a "stupid question". Installed a SWiM LNB a few years back when I only needed 8 tuners, following VOS's advice. Out comes the HR34 and life has changed. 8 tuners is not enough. Absent changing the LNB back to its original form, with four outputs and using a SWiM 16, is there any way to increase the tuner count with a SWiM LNB installed?


----------



## veryoldschool

RD in Fla said:


> This is essentially what I suspect is a "stupid question". Installed a SWiM LNB a few years back when I only needed 8 tuners, following VOS's advice. Out comes the HR34 and life has changed. 8 tuners is not enough. Absent changing the LNB back to its original form, with four outputs and using a SWiM 16, is there any way to increase the tuner count with a SWiM LNB installed?


Not a stupid question, but you already know the answer: "nope".


----------



## drpjr

VOS, Last week I upgraded from three HR20-100's to an HR34, two HR24-500's and kept one old box. They relpaced the LNB added a SWiM 16 multiswitch and the "obligatory" CCK. All is working as it should. I had been using an unsupported ethernet for wholehome and VOD. I would like to eliminate the CCK and go back to my existing ethernet. The power inserter and CCk are located next to the HR34 both using dedicated co-ax from the multiswitch. My questions are: Can I eliminate the CCK and use the existing ethernet as before? Each box has ethernet homerun to the router. Does the HR20-100 require any special hook-up. 

One note, I added an HR24 at the same location as the HR20 where only two co-ax are run. Will the HR20 still have two tuners and internet with only one co-ax using SWiM hookup while other boxes will be ethernet? Thanks.


----------



## veryoldschool

drpjr said:


> VOS, Last week I upgraded from three HR20-100's to an HR34, two HR24-500's and kept one old box. They relpaced the LNB added a SWiM 16 multiswitch and the "obligatory" CCK. All is working as it should. I had been using an unsupported ethernet for wholehome and VOD. I would like to eliminate the CCK and go back to my existing ethernet. The power inserter and CCk are located next to the HR34 both using dedicated co-ax from the multiswitch. My questions are: Can I eliminate the CCK and use the existing ethernet as before? Each box has ethernet homerun to the router. Does the HR20-100 require any special hook-up.
> 
> One note, I added an HR24 at the same location as the HR20 where only two co-ax are run. Will the HR20 still have two tuners and internet with only one co-ax using SWiM hookup while other boxes will be ethernet? Thanks.


Why would you want to take a "working as it should" system and go back to ethernet?
You could drop the CCK and use ethernet directly to the HR34, as it is the only receiver that can act as the bridge between ethernet and the DECA network.
You'll need to terminate the coax where the CCK is.
With a SWiM, one coax gives access to all the tuners.


----------



## drpjr

veryoldschool said:


> Why would you want to take a "working as it should" system and go back to ethernet?
> You could drop the CCK and use ethernet directly to the HR34, as it is the only receiver that can act as the bridge between ethernet and the DECA network..


Only reason is to eliminate one power cord and reduce(minutely) what is already an insane amout of wiring in the home theatre. The CCK also runs pretty warm.



veryoldschool said:


> You'll need to terminate the coax where the CCK is. With a SWiM, one coax gives access to all the tuners.


Terminate as in disconnect from multiswitch and ground that output or can I use a barrel connector and ground on the end of coax? I would expect the same result. Thanks for your help.


----------



## veryoldschool

drpjr said:


> Only reason is to eliminate one power cord and reduce(minutely) what is already an insane amout of wiring in the home theatre. The CCK also runs pretty warm.
> 
> Terminate as in disconnect from multiswitch and ground that output or can I use a barrel connector and ground on the end of coax? I would expect the same result. Thanks for your help.


Terminate as in use a 75 ohm "load" [or what's called a termination] on the coax or the splitter where the coax connected.
RF signals will reflect from either an open cable or a shorted cable, which can cause problems. A 75 ohm resistor "terminates" a coax so this doesn't happen.


----------



## drpjr

Thanks again, I knew there was a reason I kept the ones off the multiswitch. All systems go.


----------



## Juanus

VOS,

I have a question. I have an extra PI. My neighbor is having trouble with his Time Warner system where he is not getting enough power through and they keep trying to cap off ports and the more ports they cap off, the better the signal, ect (thats the short version of the story) I was wondering if a DTV PI would work on his TW system?

Thanks
Juanus


----------



## veryoldschool

Juanus said:


> VOS,
> 
> I have a question. I have an extra PI. My neighbor is having trouble with his Time Warner system where he is not getting enough power through and they keep trying to cap off ports and the more ports they cap off, the better the signal, ect (thats the short version of the story) I was wondering if a DTV PI would work on his TW system?
> 
> Thanks
> Juanus


Nope, they're completely different systems. The PI is just for DC and cable uses AC for their amps.
Sounds like maybe a smaller splitter would help more.


----------



## Juanus

Thanks, I was afraid that was the answer. I was just brainstorming solutions.


----------



## lzhj9k

VOS

I could use your help

I just upgraded my system with an HR-34, H25 and three C31 clients. I did retain an HR23.

I ran the Coax network test on the HR-34 only as a result of some whole home playback issues..

0 Great Room Hr-34 N/A
1 Node... -19
2 West Wing C31  -25
3 Node -25
4 Node -17
5 Kitchen C31 -25
6 Home Office C31 -24

Dropped session Count 52

0 229 253 246 230 246 244 244
1 243 231 279 237 249 278 281
2 234 286 227 235 247 281 279
3 232 251 246 227 241 246 244
4 249 253 246 240 235 244 246
5 238 289 281 241 248 228 279
6 239 291 278 240 248 279 229

I have a green dot SWM LNB
Green label 8 way splitter with 1 unused port capped
I have a Wired BroadBand Deca
I have an original white receiver deca on the HR-23

Not using ethernet for the HR-34
But could and discontinue the Broadband Deca

I am using a 29V Power Inserter which is in between the LNB and the 8 Way Splitter

Whole home had been working well. however since the system upgrade playback from the HR-23 to the HR-34 has had Video issues

Suggestions..

Thanks


----------



## veryoldschool

lzhj9k said:


> VOS
> 
> I could use your help
> 
> I just upgraded my system with an HR-34, H25 and three C31 clients. I did retain an HR23.
> 
> I ran the Coax network test on the HR-34 only as a result of some whole home playback issues..
> 
> 0 Great Room Hr-34 N/A
> 1 Node... -19
> 2 West Wing C31 -25
> 3 Node -25
> 4 Node -17
> 5 Kitchen C31 -25
> 6 Home Office C31 -24
> 
> Dropped session Count 52
> 
> 0 [strike]229[/strike] 253 246 *230* 246 244 244
> 1 243 [strike]231[/strike] 279 237 249 278 281
> 2 *234* 286 [strike]227[/strike] *235* 247 281 279
> 3 *232* 251 246 [strike]227[/strike] 241 246 244
> 4 249 253 246 240 [strike]235[/strike] 244 246
> 5 238 289 281 241 248 [strike]228[/strike] 279
> 6 239 291 278 240 248 279 [strike]229[/strike]
> 
> I have a green dot SWM LNB
> Green label 8 way splitter with 1 unused port capped
> I have a Wired BroadBand Deca
> I have an original white receiver deca on the HR-23
> 
> Not using ethernet for the HR-34
> But could and discontinue the Broadband Deca
> 
> I am using a 29V Power Inserter which is in between the LNB and the 8 Way Splitter
> 
> Whole home had been working well. however since the system upgrade playback from the HR-23 to the HR-34 has had Video issues
> 
> Suggestions..
> 
> Thanks


Dropped session count is due to the C31s, so you'll need to dismiss that for now.
A few of your mesh rates are a bit low, but above the min.

Since it's the HR23 location that may be the problem, I'd swap the H25 with it and run the same coax test from the H25, as it will give another look at the system.

The way you have things configured looks fine. I've gotten slightly better mesh numbers with a BSF on the splitter input. Your LNB has a BSF, but the coax from the splitter to it doesn't need to have DECA on it and shortening [dropping] this leg may slightly improve your mesh numbers. I'd say this would be a minor tweak and not expect it to cure/fix anything though.
More interesting would be the numbers from the HR23 location using the H25.


----------



## lzhj9k

VOS

Thanks for you opinion and guidance

I will run the coax test from the MasterBedroom location which is where the
H25 is currently and then I will do as you suggested and move the H25 to the spare bedroom in place of the HR23 and rerun the test..

I just came in from mowing and it will take me a little while to do as you suggested...

Will be back with you shortly

Thanks agian Mr Wizard (VOS)


----------



## lzhj9k

VOS.....

H25 In Present location (Master Bedroom)

0 -20

1 N/A

2 

3 -17

4 -16

5 -18

6 -12

Dropped Sessions 0

0 1 2 3 4 5 6

0 239 259 0 241 254 254 255 

1 249 239 0 245 254 289 292

2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

3 240 258 0 236 248 254 254

4 257 259 0 248 246 254 256

5 242 296 0 244 255 237 289

6 247 297 0 245 254 291 237


----------



## veryoldschool

0| |253 |246|
* 230*
| 246| 244| 244||| 259| 000| 241| 254| 254| 255
1| 243| | 279| 237| 249| 278 |281||249| | 0| 245| 254| 289| 292
2|
*234*
| 286| |
*235*
| 247| 281| 279||0| 0| | 0| 0| 0| 0
3|
*232*
| 251| 246| | 241| 246| 244||240| 258| 0 || 248| 254| 254
4| 249| 253| 246| 240| | 244| 246||257| 259| 0| 248| | 254| 256
5 |238| 289| 281| 241| 248| | 279||242| 296| 0 |244 |255| | 289
6| 239| 291| 278| 240| 248| 279| ||247| 297| 0 |245| 254| 291|


----------



## lzhj9k

VOS

As requested I moved the H25 from the Master Bedroom to the Spare Bedroom in place of the HR23 server to the HR34

0 -21

1 N/A

2

3

4 -16

5 -18

6 -17

0 1 2 3 4 5 6

0 250 258 0 0 255 253 256

1 248 241 0 0 253 289 292 

2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 

4 255 258 0 0 252 253 257

5 243 292 0 0 253 239 292

6 247 293 0 0 254 292 244

Dropped Sessions 0


----------



## veryoldschool

0| |253 |246|
*230*
| 246| 244| 244||| 259| 0| 241| 254| 254| 255|| |258| 000| 000| 255| 253 |256
1| 243| | 279| 237| 249| 278 |281||249| | 0| 245| 254| 289| 292||248 | |0 |0| 253| 289| 292
2|
*234*
| 286| |
* 235*
| 247| 281| 279||0| 0| | 0| 0| 0| 0||0 |0| | 0 |0| 0| 0
3|
*232*
| 251| 246| | 241| 246| 244||240| 258| 0 || 248| 254| 254||0| 0| 0| | 0| 0| 0
4| 249| 253| 246| 240| | 244| 246||257| 259| 0| 248| | 254| 256||255| 258| 0| 0| | 253| 257
5 |238| 289| 281| 241| 248| | 279||242| 296| 0 |244 |255| | 289||243| 292| 0 |0| 253| |292
6| 239| 291| 278| 240| 248| 279| ||247| 297| 0 |245| 254| 291| ||247| 293| 0| 0| 254| 292| 
So what does this all mean?

Nothing here shows any sign of it being the problem.


----------



## lzhj9k

VOS

Thanks for your time and formatting of the data for analysis

I do have a band stop filter on hand so I could install it

If I understand your earlier suggestion, I could install it on the line from the LNB to the 8 Way Splitter ( ie Don't anticipate significant changes)

Thanks again for looking over my new set up


----------



## veryoldschool

lzhj9k said:


> VOS
> 
> Thanks for your time and formatting of the data for analysis
> 
> I do have a band stop filter on hand so I could install it
> 
> If I understand your earlier suggestion, I could install it on the line from the LNB to the 8 Way Splitter ( ie Don't anticipate significant changes)
> 
> Thanks again for looking over my new set up


Use the pigtail to connect to the splitter's input, and then the coax to the dish to it.


----------



## lzhj9k

VOS

Will do... Thanks again for all you do for us

All the Best


----------



## MurrayW

My dish is on the roof of my 2-story house and the coax lines from the dish enter my attic. I used to have my multi-switch in my attic so the coax lines from the dish were terminated in the attic.

A few years ago I centralized everything in an equipment closet on the 1st floor with all my DVR's there and used a matrix switch to send the DVR output to TV's in the 2nd floor bedrooms. In order to get the signal from the dish to the SWiM16 downstairs I used barrel connectors on the coax from the dish and extended it with coax running down to the SWiM16. I've been running like this for several years with good signal levels and no problems.

A few months ago my matrix switch died on me and now since there is the whole home capability, I am not motivated to spend $1,000's on a new switch and am going to return the DVR's to the individual rooms up stairs. The coax lines running to the bedrooms upstairs terminate in the attic.

I know the best setup would be to move the SWiM16 back up to the attic and I could eliminate all barrel connections from the dish to the SWiM16 and the SWiM16 to the DVR's in the bedrooms. I may end up doing this, but I prefer to leave my SWiM16 in its current location downstairs.

If I do leave the SWiM16 downstairs I would have a barrel in the line from the dish to the SWiM16 and another one in the line going back from the switch to the attic then to the DVR's in the bedrooms. If I use 3Ghz barrel connectors, should I expect to see any problems by having 1 connector between the dish and the SWiM16 input and another one between the SWiM16 output and the DVR input?

thanks,
Murray


----------



## veryoldschool

MurrayW said:


> My dish is on the roof of my 2-story house and the coax lines from the dish enter my attic. I used to have my multi-switch in my attic so the coax lines from the dish were terminated in the attic.
> 
> A few years ago I centralized everything in an equipment closet on the 1st floor with all my DVR's there and used a matrix switch to send the DVR output to TV's in the 2nd floor bedrooms. In order to get the signal from the dish to the SWiM16 downstairs I used barrel connectors on the coax from the dish and extended it with coax running down to the SWiM16. I've been running like this for several years with good signal levels and no problems.
> 
> A few months ago my matrix switch died on me and now since there is the whole home capability, I am not motivated to spend $1,000's on a new switch and am going to return the DVR's to the individual rooms up stairs. The coax lines running to the bedrooms upstairs terminate in the attic.
> 
> I know the best setup would be to move the SWiM16 back up to the attic and I could eliminate all barrel connections from the dish to the SWiM16 and the SWiM16 to the DVR's in the bedrooms. I may end up doing this, but I prefer to leave my SWiM16 in its current location downstairs.
> 
> If I do leave the SWiM16 downstairs I would have a barrel in the line from the dish to the SWiM16 and another one in the line going back from the switch to the attic then to the DVR's in the bedrooms. If I use 3Ghz barrel connectors, should I expect to see any problems by having 1 connector between the dish and the SWiM16 input and another one between the SWiM16 output and the DVR input?
> 
> thanks,
> Murray


"Not really".

Any connection can be a point of failure, so it's good to keep them to a minimum.
Since these don't sound like they'll be exposed to the weather, there is less likelihood of there being a problem.


----------



## MurrayW

veryoldschool said:


> "Not really".
> 
> Any connection can be a point of failure, so it's good to keep them to a minimum.
> Since these don't sound like they'll be exposed to the weather, there is less likelihood of there being a problem.


Thank you very much VOS.


----------



## Kev4Bama

I am wanting to make the jump but had a few questions I wanted to clear up first.

I currently have

(1)HR23-700 DVR
(2) H21-200's
(1) H24-700

Swm 16 System

Can I just replace the HR23-700 with the Genie and the other HD boxes still work with the Genie as far as whole home? I am a little in the dark as to what boxes will work with Genie and which wont. Directv site made it sound like only newer boxes will communicate with it over whole home setups.

Other question is what monthly fees come along with the Genie other than the 8.00 advanced reciever fee and 3.00 whole home fee I pay now? 8.00 fee is included in my base package and I pay for three additional tv's as one is also included in the package.

Just trying to educate myself on the Genie setup but a search gives me hundreds of topics all over the place none really answering my questions.

Thanks in Advance
__________________


----------



## veryoldschool

Kev4Bama said:


> I am wanting to make the jump but had a few questions I wanted to clear up first.
> 
> I currently have
> 
> (1)HR23-700 DVR
> (2) H21-200's
> (1) H24-700
> 
> Swm 16 System
> 
> Can I just replace the HR23-700 with the Genie and the other HD boxes still work with the Genie as far as whole home? I am a little in the dark as to what boxes will work with Genie and which wont. Directv site made it sound like only newer boxes will communicate with it over whole home setups.
> 
> Other question is what monthly fees come along with the Genie other than the 8.00 advanced reciever fee and 3.00 whole home fee I pay now? 8.00 fee is included in my base package and I pay for three additional tv's as one is also included in the package.
> 
> Just trying to educate myself on the Genie setup but a search gives me hundreds of topics all over the place none really answering my questions.
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> __________________


With your current tuner count, you don't need a SWiM-16, and if you drop the HR23 for a HR34, even with the additional tuners, you still don't need the -16, since you only have 8 tuners.

If you have DECA and MRV now, there isn't anything you need to swap the 34 for the 23. Deactivate the 23 and replace it with the 34. There should be no change in your bill and everything will work as it does now.


----------



## Kev4Bama

veryoldschool said:


> With your current tuner count, you don't need a SWiM-16, and if you drop the HR23 for a HR34, even with the additional tuners, you still don't need the -16, since you only have 8 tuners.
> 
> If you have DECA and MRV now, there isn't anything you need to swap the 34 for the 23. Deactivate the 23 and replace it with the 34. There should be no change in your bill and everything will work as it does now.


Thanks VOS

I know that my current SWM 16 is overkill. You actually gave some some great advice hooking it up about two years ago. The main reason I went with that one are the legacy ports which I keep one of the H21-200's on so I can keep it non SWM because I use it for tailgating. The other H21-200 as well as the H23-700 currently have DECA's and are currently functioning with whole home as well as all being networked together as far as whole home and being connected to the internet. The H24 is also connected to this setup but has a built in DECA.

With the H34 I would probably just run it out of the SWM 1 port. And then run the other boxes in the house off a 3 or 4 way splitter out of SWM 2 port. I currently have two 4 ways one each out of swm 1 and 2. For the H34 could I hook directly to the swm 1 port on the SWM 16 bypassing using a splitter?


----------



## veryoldschool

Kev4Bama said:


> For the H34 could I hook directly to the swm 1 port on the SWM 16 bypassing using a splitter?


You can, but if the coax run isn't that long [for some loss], you might want to keep a splitter inline.
I've got a 34 connected to one leg of my -16, on a fairly short coax, so I have a 2-way splitter "mostly" just to add some loss to the line.


----------



## RobertTX

Help please with adding another receiver.

Ok let me give you more information about how my current installation is set up.

The line from the satellite dish comes into the house and goes to the "in" on a two way Splitter SWM 2 way (MSPLIT2R1-03).
One "out" on the splitter goes to the master bedroom and hooks to a Connected Home Adapter (DECA1MRO-01) which in turn feeds a coax to the receiver (H21-200) and ethernet cable to the receiver.

The other "out" on the splitter goes to the "power to SWM" on SWM Power inverter.
Then a coax cable goes from the "Signal to IRD" of the SWM Power Inverter to a splitter in the Family Room with one coax going to the receiver (H34-700) and the other coax going to the Deca Broadcast Adapter (DECABB1MRO-01).

Hope that all made sense.

I want to add a receiver in the guest bedroom.

So my question is can I take the coax cable (going to the master bedroom)that comes out of the Splitter SWM 2 way and feed it to a distribution panel which in turn will feed multiple rooms in the house?
Or do I need to get a larger SWM splitter (3 way?) so I can feed the guest bedroom?

Also will I need to get another Connected Home Adapter for the receiver in the guest bedroom?

Please excuse my ignorance I'm new to the DirecTV wiring (switched from cable tv).


----------



## Kev4Bama

veryoldschool said:


> You can, but if the coax run isn't that long [for some loss], you might want to keep a splitter inline.
> I've got a 34 connected to one leg of my -16, on a fairly short coax, so I have a 2-way splitter "mostly" just to add some loss to the line.


Probably about 25-30' of CCS RG6.


----------



## veryoldschool

RobertTX said:


> Help please with adding another receiver.
> 
> Ok let me give you more information about how my current installation is set up.
> 
> The line from the satellite dish comes into the house and goes to the "in" on a two way Splitter SWM 2 way (MSPLIT2R1-03).
> One "out" on the splitter goes to the master bedroom and hooks to a Connected Home Adapter (DECA1MRO-01) which in turn feeds a coax to the receiver (H21-200) and ethernet cable to the receiver.
> 
> The other "out" on the splitter goes to the "power to SWM" on SWM Power inverter.
> Then a coax cable goes from the "Signal to IRD" of the SWM Power Inverter to a splitter in the Family Room with one coax going to the receiver (H34-700) and the other coax going to the Deca Broadcast Adapter (DECABB1MRO-01).
> 
> Hope that all made sense.
> 
> I want to add a receiver in the guest bedroom.
> 
> So my question is can I take the coax cable (going to the master bedroom)that comes out of the Splitter SWM 2 way and feed it to a distribution panel which in turn will feed multiple rooms in the house?
> Or do I need to get a larger SWM splitter (3 way?) so I can feed the guest bedroom?
> 
> Also will I need to get another Connected Home Adapter for the receiver in the guest bedroom?
> 
> Please excuse my ignorance I'm new to the DirecTV wiring (switched from cable tv).


You can change any one of your 2-ways to a 4-way splitter to get another port for a coax.
You have an HR34 [five tuners] and a H21-200, but is this an HR21-200 [two tuners] or a non DVR H21-200 [one tuner]?
You can only have eight tuners, so it matters as to what new receiver you can connect.
Depending on what model receiver you get, it may or may not also need a DECA [what you're calling a CCK]. The H/HR24 and newer have a DECA internally.


----------



## veryoldschool

Kev4Bama said:


> Probably about 25-30' of CCS RG6.


With it being that short, "a splitter" might be a good idea.


----------



## RobertTX

I have a non DVR H21-200 (one tuner) in the master bedroom with a DECA.

I'll change the 2-way that the cable from the dish feeds into. That is the easiest place to pick up the coax that feeds the guest bedroom.

I'll put a H24 (or H25?) in the guest bedroom since I can watch any program recorded on the HR34 on any TV and therefore don't need recording capability (or am I missing something here?).

Also where is the best place to put the PI - before or after the splitter (as it is now)?
I have been looking at the connection pictures in the Connected Home Reference Images thread and am confused.
Also they show the BB DECA but they don't show it connected to a router (as mine is)??? Is it a "given" that it must be connected to a router?

*VOS* - I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to educate me!


----------



## veryoldschool

RobertTX said:


> I have a non DVR H21-200 (one tuner) in the master bedroom with a DECA.
> 
> I'll change the 2-way that the cable from the dish feeds into. That is the easiest place to pick up the coax that feeds the guest bedroom.
> 
> I'll put a H24 (or H25?) in the guest bedroom since I can watch any program recorded on the HR34 on any TV and therefore don't need recording capability (or am I missing something here?).
> 
> Also where is the best place to put the PI - before or after the splitter (as it is now)?
> I have been looking at the connection pictures in the Connected Home Reference Images thread and am confused.
> Also they show the BB DECA but they don't show it connected to a router (as mine is)??? Is it a "given" that it must be connected to a router?
> 
> *VOS* - I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to educate me!


I like to have my IP before the splitter, but it can be after the splitter too.
BB DECAs do need to be connected to the router, so if the image doesn't show it "was assumed" to be.

The H25 might be a good choice as they're small and fit places the larger don't. It will work just like your H24, so you can watch recordings with it.


----------



## RobertTX

Thank you again!

Can you explain to me what the BB DECA is really doing? (i.e. it takes a signal from the internet and distributes it to ....)

Any suggestions on where to buy a H24/25? (other than DirecTV)


----------



## veryoldschool

RobertTX said:


> Thank you again!
> 
> Can you explain to me what the BB DECA is really doing? (i.e. it takes a signal from the internet and distributes it to ....)
> 
> Any suggestions on where to buy a H24/25? (other than DirecTV)


A BB DECA has had the name changed to a CCK, but like all DECAs, [DirecTV Ethernet to Coax Adapter], it/they convert ethernet to an RF signal so it can be sent over coax.

There are many retailers that will sell you a leased DirecTV receiver:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...inition-MPEG-4-Receiver-(H-25)&sku=8546300061


----------



## RobertTX

Thank you - *VOS* you're the best!


----------



## RobertTX

Another question:

If I put the IP before the splitter then does the cable from the dish go to the "Power to SWM" on the IP and then the cable to the splitter goes from the "Signal to IRD" on the IP ?

Does it matter which "out" on the splitter is used since one is labeled "DC Power Pass".


----------



## veryoldschool

RobertTX said:


> Another question:
> 
> If I put the IP before the splitter then does the cable from the dish go to the "Power to SWM" on the IP and then the cable to the splitter goes from the "Signal to IRD" on the IP ?
> 
> Does it matter which "out" on the splitter is used since one is labeled "DC Power Pass".


"Power to SWiM" must always go to the dish/SWiM.
If you connect the PI to a splitter, there is only one output port it can be connected to, which is marked with the red connector, like the PI to SWiM connector is.

NEVER connect a PI's "red" connector to anything going to a receiver.


----------



## RobertTX

I think I got it.

If I connect the "Signal to IRD" from the IP to the "input" on the splitter then I can connect any receiver to the "outputs" on the splitter.


----------



## veryoldschool

RobertTX said:


> I think I got it.
> 
> If I connect the "Signal to IRD" from the IP to the "input" on the splitter then I can connect any receiver to the "outputs" on the splitter.


"Bingo"


----------



## Groundhog45

On the old AT9 sidecar dish, can you use it with just the center FW9 LNB and without the extra FW2 LNBs? If so, what type dish would you call it in the setup? I guess the LNB could be replaced with a newer one and work. Is the shape/focal point the same on the AT9 as the AU9 so that one of the later LNBs could be used? I seem to remember that some of the guide data came from 119 and needed the FW2.


----------



## veryoldschool

Groundhog45 said:


> On the old AT9 sidecar dish, can you use it with just the center FW9 LNB and without the extra FW2 LNBs? If so, what type dish would you call it in the setup? I guess the LNB could be replaced with a newer one and work. Is the shape/focal point the same on the AT-9 as the AU-9 so that one of the later LNBs could be used?


I think it's time to bite the bullet and go to a AU9.

The AT-9 has to have the sidecar LNBs for the guide data for when you're tuned to anything from the 103 SAT.

The LNBs [AU/AT] might be able to be swapped, "but" the AT-9 doesn't have the needed notch in the arm for it.

The only way to use an AT9 without sidecar LNBs, is to change the setting to a single LNB dish for 101.


----------



## Groundhog45

veryoldschool said:


> I think it's time to bite the bullet and go to a AU9.
> 
> The AT-9 has to have the sidecar LNBs for the guide data for when you're tuned to anything from the 103 SAT.
> 
> The LNBs [AU/AT] might be able to be swapped, "but" the AT-9 doesn't have the needed notch in the arm for it.
> 
> The only way to use an AT9 without sidecar LNBs, is to change the setting to a single LNB dish for 101.


Thank you.


----------



## drpjr

VOS, My SWiM system went haywire this mourning. I am getting alternating 771 and 775 nag screens along with picture freezeing/dropouts on all recorders. 

I have reset PI and all boxes twice. I unplugged PI first then all boxes. Powered up in the same order.

I did a system check on all boxes and got various error codes with "can't detect SWM" and "primary tuner connection problem, no SWM channels available.

I checked signal strength and get mid nineties, however meters alternate between acquired and not acquired. 

I have not lost power recently and no weather or wind to speak of. The power inserter used to run quite hot but is now barely warm.

All boxes will not boot up stalling at 98% acquired or 771 nag screen.

Any suggestions? I can provide individual error codes and text for each box if needed. Thanks in advance.


----------



## veryoldschool

drpjr said:


> VOS, My SWiM system went haywire this mourning. I am getting alternating 771 and 775 nag screens along with picture freezeing/dropouts on all recorders.
> 
> I have reset PI and all boxes twice. I unplugged Pi first then all boxes. Powered up in the same order.
> 
> I did a system check on all boxes and got various error codes with "can't detect SWM" and "primary tuner connection problem, no SWM channels available.
> 
> I checked signal strength and get mid nineties, however meters alternate between acquired and not acquired.
> 
> I have not lost power recently and no weather or wind to speak of. The power inserter used to run quite hot but is now barely warm.
> 
> All boxes will not boot up stalling at 98% acquired or 771 nag screen.
> 
> Any suggestions? I can provede individual error codes for each box if needed. Thanks in advance.


Didn't you get some rain yesterday?
Could it be a wet connection?


----------



## drpjr

We got some light rain but not very long. I'll climb up and check at the dish. thx.


----------



## veryoldschool

drpjr said:


> We got some light rain but not very long. I'll climb up and check at the dish. thx.


I'd take a good look at all the connections.
If they're dry, clean, and in good condition, "then" it's time to look at maybe the PI.


----------



## drpjr

I checked the dish and all looks good. There are still four co-ax coming down the LNB into the house, one has a barrel connector at the base of the dish. I'm assuming three of them are cut/not connected at the LNB and the barrel connector is the "live" / test line. I unscrewed the barrel connector and all is dry, tight and has the rubber bushings in place. Should I pull the end of the LNB off to check connection inside LNB?

I tried rebooting again and am now getting rotating 771, 775 and acquiring signal at 98% screens.

I'm figuring a service call is in order.?


Will a misaligned dish trigger both the 771 and then 775 error or is the PI still in play? Thx.


----------



## veryoldschool

drpjr said:


> I checked the dish and all looks good. There are still four co-ax coming down the LNB into the house, one has a barrel connector at the base of the dish. I'm assuming three of them are cut/not connected at the LNB and the barrel connector is the "live" / test line. I unscrewed the barrel connector and all is dry, tight and has the rubber bushings in place. Should I pull the end of the LNB off to check connection inside LNB?
> 
> I tried rebooting again and am now getting rotating 771, 775 and acquiring signal at 98% screens.
> 
> I'm figuring a service call is in order.?
> 
> Will a misaligned dish trigger both the 771 and then 775 error or is the PI still in play? Thx.


It may be time for a service call.
771 is no signal, but 775 is a SWiM problem. Maybe the PI id fading, or...???


----------



## drpjr

Thanks, I'm so excited to make the call I can hardly sit still.


----------



## drpjr

I spoke too soon. Just had a great service call. One prompt and I'm talking to a service tech. 

Went through resetting the PI and doing a system check. PI would not power up and test yielded a different code than before with 3 tests failed and code #50-70-73-744. Tried a couple more times to reboot PI and was able to get it to start but it blinks off/on about every 5-6 seconds. Am now back to 1 test failed and code #51-208. Dish is off line.

First appointment is an expected (but no weekend football) Monday.

I have never tried to align a dish on my own. Any chance of doing so or am in over my head??


----------



## veryoldschool

drpjr said:


> I spoke too soon. Just had a great service call. One prompt and I'm talking to a service tech.
> 
> Went through resetting the PI and doing a system check. PI would not power up and test yielded a different code than before with 3 tests failed and code #50-70-73-744. Tried a couple more times to reboot PI and was able to get it to start but it blinks off/on about every 5-6 seconds. Am now back to 1 test failed and code #51-208. Dish is off line.
> 
> First appointment is an expected (but no weekend football) Monday.
> 
> I have never tried to align a dish on my own. Any chance of doing so or am in over my head??


51 is a SWiM problem, so no alignment is going to help.


> SWM Not Detected - The receiver cannot detect the presence of a SWM on the coax network. The receiver is unable to use any tuners for Live TV or Recordings. The SWM requires that a power inserter be plugged into an electrical outlet. Please check that the power inserter has not been unplugged.


50 was only one SWiM channel was available.

70 is a network [don't care right now about this]
73 is the phone line.


----------



## drpjr

It keeps getting more curious. Yesterday about 2:30pm everything started working again however the HR34 was wounded. Big blocks of channels in favorites list were gone/unchecked. All local channels were black screen and the picture on every channel was cropped on all four side and PQ was very low-rez and fuzzy. Scrolling through ouput resolutions did not help. Playback of recorded show also froze. I did a reset and updated favorites list and all was working properly.

This mourning about 6:30am all boxes started freezing and searching again like the previous mourning. Today about 2:30pm all boxes started working again without any issues on the HR34. 

The wife let me know today the HR34 has been freezing up on playback for about 10 days. Will be interesting to see if pattern repeats tomorrow am.

If it does I'm going to disable the HR34 and see if that helps.

Mondays service call should be interesting. Gotta love those intermittant issues.


----------



## drpjr

More of the same today. All boxes freezing early am with recovery about 1:30pm--Just in time to see the Niners looking not so good.:nono2:


----------



## drpjr

Had the service cal today for 12-4pm. Installer called at 9:30am and wanted to come at 10, uhh--yeah. He poked around a bit, swapped out the black PI with same results. Went into the attic to check multiswitch. Came down and said 'they installed the wrong PI for your system". Installed a new grey PI and Life is good again. 

From first phone call to drive away it was quick, easy and professional. Kudos Directv.


----------



## rjt4re

I tried searching around the forums and have been unable to find an answer to this question. Is it possible to have more than 16 tuners on a system?

I currently have the following equipment hooked up:

3 - R-22-10
4 - HR20-700
1 - HR21-700

For a total of 16 tuners. I would like to swap an HR20-700 for the new HR34 (Genie) with 5 tuners. Is it possible to expand beyond the SWM-16?

I would guess that I could disable tuners on some of the least used DVRs to get back to 16 but my preference would be to expand beyond 16.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## veryoldschool

rjt4re said:


> I tried searching around the forums and have been unable to find an answer to this question. Is it possible to have more than 16 tuners on a system?
> 
> I currently have the following equipment hooked up:
> 
> 3 - R-22-10
> 4 - HR20-700
> 1 - HR21-700
> 
> For a total of 16 tuners. I would like to swap an HR20-700 for the new HR34 (Genie) with 5 tuners. Is it possible to expand beyond the SWM-16?
> 
> I would guess that I could disable tuners on some of the least used DVRs to get back to 16 but my preference would be to expand beyond 16.
> 
> I'd appreciate your thoughts.


Surprised you couldn't find this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## rjt4re

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Seems I was using the wrong search terms (maximum tuners), multiple SWMs would have done it. Appreciate your time.


----------



## Drinyth

Hey VOS!

You probably recognize me from the other HR34/C31 thread. I wanted to post my coax numbers here for you to look at to see if you have any feedback. Based on what I've gathered, my numbers seem to be acceptable to the point where I shouldn't have any problems but I figured I'd double check with you to make sure.

My setup consists of one HR34 and two C31 receivers. Thanks for the help!


----------



## veryoldschool

Drinyth said:


> Hey VOS!
> 
> You probably recognize me from the other HR34/C31 thread. I wanted to post my coax numbers here for you to look at to see if you have any feedback. Based on what I've gathered, my numbers seem to be acceptable to the point where I shouldn't have any problems but I figured I'd double check with you to make sure.
> 
> My setup consists of one HR34 and two C31 receivers. Thanks for the help!


 "Yep", there doesn't look to be any problems there.


----------



## jeffloby

I have my wired CCK connected to the swm outside and a Ethernet cable to my router. I don't have the wired CCK in a loop with a receiver. Can my wireless CCK be connected the same way? Thanks in advance.


----------



## veryoldschool

jeffloby said:


> I have my wired CCK connected to the swm outside and a Ethernet cable to my router. I don't have the wired CCK in a loop with a receiver. Can my wireless CCK be connected the same way? Thanks in advance.


If you already have a CCK, not sure what you want to do here.

Yes the Wireless CCK, can be connected where your CCK is, and can connect to your router with either the ethernet cable or WiFi.


----------



## jeffloby

veryoldschool said:


> If you already have a CCK, not sure what you want to do here.
> 
> Yes the Wireless CCK, can be connected where your CCK is, and can connect to your router with either the ethernet cable or WiFi.


Moving the location of the CCK and won't have a wired connection anymore


----------



## jeffloby

jeffloby said:


> Moving the location of the CCK and won't have a wired connection anymore


If I ran the Wireless CCK through my HDDVR instead off straight off the swm would my other receivers still be connected to the internet or only the receiver that the CCK was hooked to? Thanks in Advance


----------



## veryoldschool

jeffloby said:


> If I ran the Wireless CCK through my HDDVR instead off straight off the swm would my other receivers still be connected to the internet or only the receiver that the CCK was hooked to? Thanks in Advance


If the WCCK is only connected to a receiver, [via ethernet], then it can't be shared with the other receivers on the coax network.
Since the WCCK has a coax, ethernet and WiFi, it can be connected to the coax [like other CCKs], connect to the router with WiFi [for the coax network], and use ethernet to one receiver. Normally in this configuration a bandstop filter is needed also.


----------



## WhiteMask

Hello, VOS -

I have a 5 lnb on the roof with 4 cables coming into the house (no SWM). 2 cables go to an HR 20 in our reading room and 2 cables go to an hr 21 in our living room. We have whole home using TrendNet devices which work fine. My living room Hr 21-100 has the component output connections going to a Sony DA3400ES receiver, then to the TV. The HDMI output from the HR21 goes thru the wall to the ajacent M Bedroom and directly to the TV. We can watch both sets with no problem, BUT only the same channel or recorded program only on both TVs.
Here's what I want to do:
I have a spare HR 21 that I'm paying for yet is not hooked up(long story). I would like to split the 2 coax cables feeding the living room TV so I can put this deck in the M Bedroom. I will connect it also to my Whole Home network. Now she can watch whatever she chooses of live or recorded programming on all decks and I can do the same in the living room. So can I get a splitter and make such a connection. It is cheaper than a lawyer, I'm sure  
Thank you


----------



## veryoldschool

WhiteMask said:


> Hello, VOS -
> 
> I have a 5 lnb on the roof with 4 cables coming into the house (no SWM). 2 cables go to an HR 20 in our reading room and 2 cables go to an hr 21 in our living room. We have whole home using TrendNet devices which work fine. My living room Hr 21-100 has the component output connections going to a Sony DA3400ES receiver, then to the TV. The HDMI output from the HR21 goes thru the wall to the ajacent M Bedroom and directly to the TV. We can watch both sets with no problem, BUT only the same channel or recorded program only on both TVs.
> Here's what I want to do:
> I have a spare HR 21 that I'm paying for yet is not hooked up(long story). I would like to split the 2 coax cables feeding the living room TV so I can put this deck in the M Bedroom. I will connect it also to my Whole Home network. Now she can watch whatever she chooses of live or recorded programming on all decks and I can do the same in the living room. So can I get a splitter and make such a connection. It is cheaper than a lawyer, I'm sure
> Thank you


You can't "split" the old legacy system.
You'd need to add a WB68 and have all four coax from the dish go into it and then have 8 outputs to feed the dual coax for each DVR.
Trying to "split" a legacy system ends up with tuning problems.


----------



## WhiteMask

VOS -
I can do this. I believe this device is powered by the DVRs, right? All wires go to a cental location and then are barrelled to the 2 existing deck locations. The M Bedroom, however, only has one coax to it. Thus, can I feed the HR 21 I'm adding with just one cable, realizing this will limit my recording ability? Will this affect my TrendNet whole home set up? 
Thanks Much for the quick response


----------



## veryoldschool

WhiteMask said:


> VOS -
> I can do this. I believe this device is powered by the DVRs, right? All wires go to a cental location and then are barrelled to the 2 existing deck locations. The M Bedroom, however, only has one coax to it. Thus, can I feed the HR 21 I'm adding with just one cable, realizing this will limit my recording ability? Will this affect my TrendNet whole home set up?
> Thanks Much for the quick response


"Seems doable" as the HR21 can be set to signal tuner mode and still be networked for MRV.


----------



## WhiteMask

VOS -

I'm not sure what "the HR21 can be set to signal tuner mode" means.

How do I do this and what does it mean? Will my only limitation be that I can only watch one recorded program while recording another with only one tuner being fed?

Thanks you.


----------



## veryoldschool

WhiteMask said:


> VOS -
> 
> I'm not sure what "the HR21 can be set to signal tuner mode" means.
> 
> How do I do this and what does it mean? Will my only limitation be that I can only watch one recorded program while recording another with only one tuner being fed?
> 
> Thanks you.


If you run the SAT setup again, you have the option of setting the DVR to one tuner, which if you have only one coax [on a legacy system] is all you have. It will record one show or let you watch one channel.
If you don't change to single tuner, with only one coax, the DVR will try to record off of the second tuner, but without a coax, it will be blank.


----------



## WhiteMask

Thanks very much for the guidance, VOS. I'll give this all a try when I'm released from my Thanksgiving prep duties by the ChairWoman around here


----------



## Vinny

Hey VOS,

Out of the blue on 11/15, while still running under [redacted]; MRV stopped working on the HR22-100. Now running current [redacted] and still no MRV. I have done the following: 

restored defaults and reconnected to internet
numerous RBRs on both STB's
many menu resets on both STB's
pulled power...waited a few minutes...then replugged
reset router
changed ethernet cable from router to HR22-100
Refreshed at DirecTV.com
Additional Information: 

whole home is authorized
tversity does not see the HR22
windows 7 network display does not see HR22
MediaShare doesn't appear under Extras
System passed all tests after download and still passes all tests
iPad app sees both the HR22 and HR20 and I am able view the unified playlist from both DVRs
In "More Info" - Listed under Network
area next to STB Services Port: a yellow triangle N/A (205).
Status: just a dash
Audio Services Port: just a dash
Network: Connected
Internet: Connected

Not running "supported" whole home (no DECA)...but this ran under this setup from the beginning of MRV.

I'm at a loss; I don't know what else I could do to bring MRV back.

Vinny


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> Hey VOS,
> 
> Out of the blue on 11/15, while still running under [redacted]; MRV stopped working on the HR22-100. Now running current [redacted] and still no MRV. I have done the following:
> 
> restored defaults and reconnected to internet
> numerous RBRs on both STB's
> many menu resets on both STB's
> pulled power...waited a few minutes...then replugged
> reset router
> changed ethernet cable from router to HR22-100
> Refreshed at DirecTV.com
> Additional Information:
> 
> whole home is authorized
> tversity does not see the HR22
> windows 7 network display does not see HR22
> MediaShare doesn't appear under Extras
> System passed all tests after download and still passes all tests
> iPad app sees both the HR22 and HR20 and I am able view the unified playlist from both DVRs
> In "More Info" - Listed under Network
> area next to STB Services Port: a yellow triangle N/A (205).
> Status: just a dash
> Audio Services Port: just a dash
> Network: Connected
> Internet: Connected
> 
> Not running "supported" whole home (no DECA)...but this ran under this setup from the beginning of MRV.
> 
> I'm at a loss; I don't know what else I could do to bring MRV back.
> 
> Vinny


"more info" doesn't show anything to be concerned about. the <205> error I haven't seen, but all of mine have the <202> error.
Since most of your devices don't seem to "see" the HR22, I'd guess that a port is blocked in your router. I've seen this myself back in the early days when I used ethernet. I seem to remember DirecTV2PC worked, but MRV didn't.
This took a router reset to resolve. If a power cycle doesn't, then the next thing I'd try is the hidden factory reset button. It has helped before.


----------



## Vinny

The power recycling didn't work with routher...I'll try the reset and get back to you.


----------



## Vinny

did the fac reset on router.

all devices are seen by router...HR22 is connected via ethernet.

Tversity still doesnt see HR22

Media Share isn't available on HR22

MRV not working.

Any other advice, please


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> did the fac reset on router.
> 
> all devices are seen by router...HR22 is connected via ethernet.
> 
> Tversity still doesnt see HR22
> 
> Media Share isn't available on HR22
> 
> MRV not working.
> 
> Any other advice, please


I'm running out of ideas, so this might be a bit too far out there:

Do you have a ethernet switch? If so how about using it instead of the router, and have all the receivers use their internal 169.xxx IPs?
This is simply to focus on MRV for the time.


----------



## Vinny

No, i dont have an ethernet switch.

I've been looking at the router and it sees everything.

I am so fed up and lost at this point. I just don't understand how everything worked for years and now, just like that, no MRV.

It's like the HR22 just doesn't want to be found.


----------



## Vinny

Thanks, hdtvfan....I can't tell you how many times I reran network setup. It always returns, unable to restart network services when i run it set to automatic. when I run it manually, it comes back with network services started, connectivity failed. 

The above goes for both HR's


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> Thanks, hdtvfan....I can't tell you how many times I reran network setup. It always returns, unable to restart network services when i run it set to automatic. when I run it manually, it comes back with network services started, connectivity failed.
> 
> The above goes for both HR's


Try swapping ports on the router.


----------



## Vinny

VOS...thanks for your help. Here's what I just did:

Swapped ports.
Powered down router then powered up.

Went to network setup...noticed default ip address changed to 169.something.something. wouldnt connect.

went to advanced setup...changed back to the original ip.

connected to network.
connected to internet

got congratulations screen (as always)

still no MRV.


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> VOS...thanks for your help. Here's what I just did:
> 
> Swapped ports.
> Powered down router then powered up.
> 
> Went to network setup...noticed default ip address changed to 169.something.something. wouldnt connect.
> 
> went to advanced setup...changed back to the original ip.
> 
> connected to network.
> connected to internet
> 
> got congratulations screen (as always)
> 
> still no MRV.


The fact that this receiver pulled a 169.xxx IP shows that it didn't find your router.
Go back to resetting your network defaults and then do a reboot of the receiver.
Check that the HR22 finds your router and the IP address that your router gives.

The HR22 has the double ethernet ports, and this can cause problems as they have been known to swap which is the primary, and only the primary should be used.


----------



## Vinny

VOS..

before i do the reset; i want you to know that the HR20 is showing a static ip address when i view it through the router. I don't know how i did that but i thought it should be dynamic??


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> VOS..
> 
> before i do the reset; i want you to know that the HR20 is showing a static ip address when i view it through the router. I don't know how i did that but i thought it should be dynamic??


Static comes from the minute you change networking under advanced.
Resetting network defaults is the only way to have the receiver go back to DHCP, but if/when you go into the advanced setup and make a change, you're back to static.

When you have networking issues, it's best to stay out of advanced to begin with.
If you have receivers dropping off the MRV playlist, then static IPs outside of the router's DHCP range can help, but this doesn't look to be the problem you're dealing with right now, hence going back to defaults should help.


----------



## Vinny

so then i should go to the hr20 and do the same thing as the hr22. restore then reboot, right?


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> so then i should go to the hr20 and do the same thing as the hr22. restore then reboot, right?


If you only have two receivers, then you should reboot/reset defaults on both as either one could be causing this.


----------



## Vinny

OK...i just did the reset default to the HR20 as well.

Both are rebooting.


----------



## Vinny

After reboot:

*HR22* came back and more info says its connected to both internet and network under ip 192.xxx.x.x Tversity doesnt see it. Windows network dosent see it.

*HR20 *came back and more info says its connected to both internet and network under ip 192.xxx.x.x Tversity sees it. Windows network identifies it.


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> After reboot:
> 
> *HR22* came back and more info says its connected to both internet and network under ip 192.xxx.x.x Tversity doesnt see it. Windows network dosent see it.
> 
> *HR20 *came back and more info says its connected to both internet and network under ip 192.xxx.x.x Tversity sees it. Windows network identifies it.


First question: does MRV work?


----------



## Vinny

MRV does NOT work.

Everything seems as it was. 

HR22 has no media share, does not show up in Tversity. IS connected to internet, YouTube and apps work.

However, the HR20 still shows as a static ip address...BUT now the Name and Description shows in the Router. Before its name showed as the ip address. Now the name shows as DirectvHR20.


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> MRV does NOT work.
> 
> Everything seems as it was.
> 
> HR22 has no media share, does not show up in Tversity. IS connected to internet, YouTube and apps work.
> 
> However, the HR20 still shows as a static ip address...BUT now the Name and Description shows in the Router. Before its name showed as the ip address. Now the name shows as DirectvHR20.


I'm running out of ideas.

It's hard to believe the HR22 can find the network, and the internet, but not find the HR20.

It helps to have three receivers so you can find the "odd man out".
Not having an ethernet switch limits testing too.
DECA is so much easier to troubleshoot. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

Since I've never seen this error:


> area next to STB Services Port: a yellow triangle N/A (205).


I'm starting to wonder if it's a sign of something being hosed in the receiver.

What does the HR20 show?


----------



## Vinny

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.

I think I'll be calling DTV tomorrow and upgrade to Genie. Its really what is the most practical for me. I just have 2 TVs hooked up so one HR34 and the new little box ( I don't remember the name) is the way to go.

You're supposed to have this Friday night off...so, I think I'll call it a night.

Thanks again for your help! If anything comes to you, please post.

Vinny


----------



## Vinny

Oh....

1 more thing. I did switch the ethernet cable behind the HR22 from the bottom to the top port. 

When this problem started it was in the bottom port. I didn't change it until today. Both ports allow internet and network connection.

Should it be in the bottom port?


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> Oh....
> 
> 1 more thing. I did switch the ethernet cable behind the HR22 from the bottom to the top port.
> 
> When this problem started it was in the bottom port. I didn't change it until today. Both ports allow internet and network connection.
> 
> Should it be in the bottom port?


I think it should be the top port, but for me it's been a few years.

Are they marked 1 & 2? 
if so you should be using #1


----------



## Vinny

OK..so then I'm in the right port....its the top and its labeled 1.

Goodnight, VOS, and thanks again.


----------



## JeffDomogala

VOS, first of all thanks for your contribution to this community. I have learned an awful lot in a short period of time particularly about SWM, DECA and MRV because of your input.

There appears to be two different SWiM setups:
1 - Ka/Ku Dish with single SWM connection to green label splitter to devices
2 - Ka/Ku Dish with four connections to SWM-8 or SWM-16 to devices or splitters then devices

If I have four devices that need to be connected to the dish, I can either use #1 with a four way green label splitter or I can use #2 utilizing a SWM-16 and use both SWM outputs with two way splitters. Assuming all else equal (cable lengths for runs to receivers), does #2 have an advantage over #1 because of the single splitter off of each SWM output? Or is there loss within the SWM-16 that makes this almost a wash?

Please correct me if I'm off base regarding anything I attempted to explain.

Second, I am going to be converting from a 3 DirecTivo setup to an HR-34 plus a pair of either C-31s or HR-24s. So I currently have a round dish (30" Winegard) with a dual LNB and multiswitch feeding the DirecTivos. I know that the dish has to change to one of the above two options. I am hung up on available tuners like others have been in this forum. In order not to chew up tuners in the HR-34, I would simply want the HR-24s for nothing more than the pause-rewind capability for live TV, which I don't think I can get with the C-31 unless I use a tuner on the HR-34. It hasn't been really clear to me if there is pause-rewind live TV capability on all of the C-31s connected to the HR-34.

Finally, If I go with either the C-31s or HR-24's, is it enough to just connect my home network to the HR-34 to get internet connectivity to everything?


----------



## veryoldschool

JeffDomogala said:


> VOS, first of all thanks for your contribution to this community. I have learned an awful lot in a short period of time particularly about SWM, DECA and MRV because of your input.
> 
> There appears to be two different SWiM setups:
> 1 - Ka/Ku Dish with single SWM connection to green label splitter to devices
> 2 - Ka/Ku Dish with four connections to SWM-8 or SWM-16 to devices or splitters then devices
> 
> If I have four devices that need to be connected to the dish, I can either use #1 with a four way green label splitter or I can use #2 utilizing a SWM-16 and use both SWM outputs with two way splitters. Assuming all else equal (cable lengths for runs to receivers), does #2 have an advantage over #1 because of the single splitter off of each SWM output? Or is there loss within the SWM-16 that makes this almost a wash?
> 
> Please correct me if I'm off base regarding anything I attempted to explain.
> 
> Second, I am going to be converting from a 3 DirecTivo setup to an HR-34 plus a pair of either C-31s or HR-24s. So I currently have a round dish (30" Winegard) with a dual LNB and multiswitch feeding the DirecTivos. I know that the dish has to change to one of the above two options. I am hung up on available tuners like others have been in this forum. In order not to chew up tuners in the HR-34, I would simply want the HR-24s for nothing more than the pause-rewind capability for live TV, which I don't think I can get with the C-31 unless I use a tuner on the HR-34. It hasn't been really clear to me if there is pause-rewind live TV capability on all of the C-31s connected to the HR-34.
> 
> Finally, If I go with either the C-31s or HR-24's, is it enough to just connect my home network to the HR-34 to get internet connectivity to everything?


OK let's start with the SWiMLNB verses the SWM8. They're the same, and the "old" SWM8 came out first for commercial use, followed by the SWiMLNB [cheaper] for home use.
1 coax carries 1 guide data channel [common to all receivers] and 8 channels for "tuners".
A non DVR has one tuner, while a DVR has two.
The C31 has "none", as it's merely a slave/client to the the server/HMC/Genie/HR34, which has 5 tuners.

The C31 has full DVR function since it is a client to the HR34, and for that matter can't function without it.

One SWiMLNB will feed: 1 HR34, 1 DVR, which leaves one channel free for a non DVR receiver. This same coax, could have another 3 C31s since they don't have tuners.

The SWiM-16 is based on two SWM8s in one package and why they have two coax outputs. Each of the SWiM "sections" are bridged together for the DECA/coax networking signal to pass between them.

The DECA/coax networking "merely" shares the same coax with the SWiM, but has no interaction with it.

"Splitters" are not switches like with the older systems, so you select them to have enough places to connect the coax your need, but never exceed 8 tuners.
"Sometimes" you need to split and then split again to fit the receivers and their locations. This can be done, but needs some attention to how as each time you split the power gets equally divided and if done wrong, one receiver may not have enough signal, while the other have more than they need.


----------



## JeffDomogala

Thanks for your response. I probably put too much stuff in one post, so can we take this one item at a time?

Boiling down the SWM part of my original post... If I have four devices (regardless of their tuner count), is there any signal strength advantage by using a SWM-16 with a green label 2 way splitter on each SWM output verses using a SWM-8 with a 4 port splitter on its output? Reading some of your other posts regarding loss, the 4 way splitter is like a two tier stack of 2 way splitters to get 4 outputs, so there are a total of two losses from the intput to each output. The SWM-16, has (as you say) two independent SWM blocks in it (and of course the bridge between the two for DECA), so is there one level less of loss now because I have to use only a single two way splitter on each output, and hence only one loss from each input to output?


----------



## JeffDomogala

Regarding the HR-24 verses the C-31. I get that the C-31 is a slave of the HR-34. My concern is that for live TV it is also using one of the 5 tuners of the HR-34, and because it is using the HR-34, it hopefully has the ability to do the 90 minute rewind during live TV viewing. I need that clarified, and I need to know if this is the case for all C-31s slaved to the HR-34.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standalone receivers (H24) cannot pause and rewind live TV, correct? Can they play recordings from the HR-34 with the ability to pause / rewind / fast forward during playback?


----------



## veryoldschool

JeffDomogala said:


> Thanks for your response. I probably put too much stuff in one post, so can we take this one item at a time?
> 
> Boiling down the SWM part of my original post... If I have four devices (regardless of their tuner count), is there any signal strength advantage by using a SWM-16 with a green label 2 way splitter on each SWM output verses using a SWM-8 with a 4 port splitter on its output? Reading some of your other posts regarding loss, the 4 way splitter is like a two tier stack of 2 way splitters to get 4 outputs, so there are a total of two losses from the intput to each output. The SWM-16, has (as you say) two independent SWM blocks in it (and of course the bridge between the two for DECA), so is there one level less of loss now because I have to use only a single two way splitter on each output, and hence only one loss from each input to output?


The SWiM output is about -30 dBm, though I've measured -26 dBm.
The combined splitter and coax loss needs to not exceed around 30 dB, or the receiver will get close to its minimum levels.
The SWiM has an AGC so the output stays fairly constant.

There isn't any advantage if a receiver is getting [say] -40 dBm, verses -50 dBm.


----------



## veryoldschool

JeffDomogala said:


> Regarding the HR-24 verses the C-31. I get that the C-31 is a slave of the HR-34. My concern is that for live TV it is also using one of the 5 tuners of the HR-34, and because it is using the HR-34, it hopefully has the ability to do the 90 minute rewind during live TV viewing. I need that clarified, and I need to know if this is the case for all C-31s slaved to the HR-34.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standalone receivers (H24) cannot pause and rewind live TV, correct? Can they play recordings from the HR-34 with the ability to pause / rewind / fast forward during playback?


The C31 will have a live buffer, so it can pause, rewind, etc. "live TV". The length is 90 mins, but only after you've been tuned to the channel that long. this will be true for up to three C31s, as that's all that can be connected at one time. If you try to use a forth, it will ask which one of the three you want to disconnect.

The H24/25 can play recordings and pause or use trickplay on them, but can't pause live TV because of no buffering. 
These can also setup a recording on the remote DVR too, so some use this to pause "live TV" by turning it into a recording.


----------



## WhiteMask

VOS -

I used your multi switch as suggested. I attached 4 antenna leads to one side. I ran the 2 coax cable from each existing deck from the ther side of the switch. I added a fifth lead to the new DVR and changed it to a one tuner deck as you specified. I was able to connect the new DVR (HR20-100) to my network and then to whole home using front panel on the deck with my wife yelling where I was on the screen as the new deck is in another room on a shelf above the deck connected in the great room. All works. Problem remaining is the fact that the remote from the master bdrm that I want to run the newly added Hr20 changes the other deck instead as was intended when we watched the great room deck in the bedroom. Can I program that remote to only change the new deck?

Jim


----------



## veryoldschool

WhiteMask said:


> VOS -
> 
> I used your multi switch as suggested. I attached 4 antenna leads to one side. I ran the 2 coax cable from each existing deck from the ther side of the switch. I added a fifth lead to the new DVR and changed it to a one tuner deck as you specified. I was able to connect the new DVR (HR20-100) to my network and then to whole home using front panel on the deck with my wife yelling where I was on the screen as the new deck is in another room on a shelf above the deck connected in the great room. All works. Problem remaining is the fact that the remote from the master bdrm that I want to run the newly added Hr20 changes the other deck instead as was intended when we watched the great room deck in the bedroom. Can I program that remote to only change the new deck?
> 
> Jim


The remotes can be "coded", but the easiest way is to simply change to RF if the RC remote has the function. "Normally" there is a R in the model like: RC64R [verses RC64]
If you need to stay with IR, then there are eight different codes, which the advanced remote setup should help you with.


----------



## Riverpilot

If I may, a bit of a problem here...

Mr. VoS 

I have a hr34 (been a customer since January of this year) that on occasion will lose the ability to tune to certain channels, like 304 (tv land). I get the old searching for signal 771. It only happens on this receiver. My other receivers work fine. If I run the "view sat strength" for tuner 2 (which I'll presume is my hr34?) and let it show all the signals, then it starts showing the channel. 

Just curious if there is something I can try to fix this, or perhaps just call directv and let them handle it? It does this at what seems random. Different times of the day, different temps, weather conditions, etc... 

It's not a huge deal, just one of those annoying quirks. lol 

Thanks for any info, suggestions


----------



## veryoldschool

Riverpilot said:


> If I may, a bit of a problem here...
> 
> Mr. VoS
> 
> I have a hr34 (been a customer since January of this year) that on occasion will lose the ability to tune to certain channels, like 304 (tv land). I get the old searching for signal 771. It only happens on this receiver. My other receivers work fine. If I run the "view sat strength" for tuner 2 (which I'll presume is my hr34?) and let it show all the signals, then it starts showing the channel.
> 
> Just curious if there is something I can try to fix this, or perhaps just call directv and let them handle it? It does this at what seems random. Different times of the day, different temps, weather conditions, etc...
> 
> It's not a huge deal, just one of those annoying quirks. lol
> 
> Thanks for any info, suggestions


While this could be many things, what seems to be the most common, or at least the more common problem with the HR34 is the coax not being terminated correctly. Open ports on the splitter or unused coax connected to the splitter. Both of these will cause a reflected signal which can degrade the forward signal to the receiver.
So the first thing is to check this and make sure everything is snug and has a termination or a receiver connected to it.


----------



## Riverpilot

veryoldschool said:


> While this could be many things, what seems to be the most common, or at least the more common problem with the HR34 is the coax not being terminated correctly. Open ports on the splitter or unused coax connected to the splitter. Both of these will cause a reflected signal which can degrade the forward signal to the receiver.
> So the first thing is to check this and make sure everything is snug and has a termination or a receiver connected to it.


I do have an unused coax, was the wire from the splitter to the decca. I bypassed that and am using the port on the hr34 instead. I'll slap a terminator on that tomorrow and double check the connections as well.

Thanks much


----------



## WhiteMask

VOS -

Very interesting on the remotes. I tried 3 different remotes using the standard DTV protocols. Then did them again with 2 different DTV tech folks. Each time with them I identified my unit as an HR20-100. They both said it has an internal RF receiver. Both decided it was the solution to send me a new remote!! After a frustrating day, at the conclusion of which I wrote to you, I decided to look on the net for the specs on this unit. Turns out the this HR20-100 DOES NOT have an internal RF. The HR20-700 DOES. They didn't bother to look I suppose.

Armed with this knowledge, I cut a 7" piece off the end of an RG6 cable, stripped it to the center wire back to within an inch from the F connector. I then screwed it on the female F connector on the back of the HR20-100 for RF antenna. Voila! Now the remote programmed 1st time to RF.

Done deal and maybe a learning experience for the uninitiated. Thanks again for your help with the splitter and how to set new box to one tuner - works perfectly. Merry Christmas!


----------



## veryoldschool

WhiteMask said:


> VOS -
> 
> Very interesting on the remotes. I tried 3 different remotes using the standard DTV protocols. Then did them again with 2 different DTV tech folks. Each time with them I identified my unit as an HR20-100. They both said it has an internal RF receiver. Both decided it was the solution to send me a new remote!! After a frustrating day, at the conclusion of which I wrote to you, I decided to look on the net for the specs on this unit. Turns out the this HR20-100 DOES NOT have an internal RF. The HR20-700 DOES. They didn't bother to look I suppose.
> 
> Armed with this knowledge, I cut a 7" piece off the end of an RG6 cable, stripped it to the center wire back to within an inch from the F connector. I then screwed it on the female F connector on the back of the HR20-100 for RF antenna. Voila! Now the remote programmed 1st time to RF.
> 
> Done deal and maybe a learning experience for the uninitiated. Thanks again for your help with the splitter and how to set new box to one tuner - works perfectly. Merry Christmas!


Yes only the HR20-100 "requires" an external antenna. 
The H20s also need an antenna, since the HR20-700 they've all had the antenna internal "except for" the HR20-100.

Now if you order a RF remote "kit" it comes with the antenna too.
I was recently sent a RC65RBX and it still came with the antenna.


----------



## WhiteMask

VOS,

My doorbell just rang. It was my wife handing me a Fed EX from the porch. Wow, they overnighted it!! It is an RC65RBX. It contained NO antenna. I will place it in a time capsule to be opened in 100 years unless you can tell me it has special powers and I should replace one of my RC64R or RC64 or 64r's with it??


----------



## veryoldschool

WhiteMask said:


> VOS,
> 
> My doorbell just rang. It was my wife handing me a Fed EX from the porch. Wow, they overnighted it!! It is an RC65RBX. It contained NO antenna. I will place it in a time capsule to be opened in 100 years unless you can tell me it has special powers and I should replace one of my RC64R or RC64 or 64r's with it??


RC65RBK

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...-for-genie-hr24-and-other-receivers-(rc65rbk)


----------



## WhiteMask

Thanks Jimmie & VOS -

No antenna, must be a refurb. I've memorized the keyboard so backlighting only means MORE BATTERIES !!!

Best,

WhiteMask


----------



## veryoldschool

WhiteMask said:


> Thanks Jimmie & VOS -
> 
> No antenna, must be a refurb. I've memorized the keyboard so backlighting only means MORE BATTERIES !!!
> 
> Best,
> 
> WhiteMask


The backlight has an "on/off" switch.


----------



## litzdog911

Hi VOS! Quick question for you ....

I'm setting up a DirecTV installation for a friend that's moving into a small house with an existing Slimline5 (non-SWM) dish. The dish currently only has two coax cables connected to the wiring box outside the garage. Fortunately each room is home run to that wiring box outside the garage. I will upgrade the LNB to SWM using one of the existing satellite cables to the wiring box. My friend only wants to have one HD DVR (Living Room) and one HD Receiver (Bedroom), ideally with WHDVR service. 

Does this diagram look good? Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

litzdog911 said:


> Hi VOS! Quick question for you ....
> 
> I'm setting up a DirecTV installation for a friend that's moving into a small house with an existing Slimline5 (non-SWM) dish. The dish currently only has two coax cables connected to the wiring box outside the garage. Fortunately each room is home run to that wiring box outside the garage. I will upgrade the LNB to SWM using one of the existing satellite cables to the wiring box. My friend only wants to have one HD DVR (Living Room) and one HD Receiver (Bedroom), ideally with WHDVR service.
> 
> Does this diagram look good? Thanks!


Looks fine "but" the splitters of course need to be the green labeled type and the power passing port "is the other one".
If this is merely in the drawing and not how you plan to set things up, then you're good to go.
Where's internet coming from?


----------



## litzdog911

veryoldschool said:


> Looks fine "but" the splitters of course need to be the green labeled type and the power passing port "is the other one".
> If this is merely in the drawing and not how you plan to set things up, then you're good to go.
> Where's internet coming from?


Thanks VOS! Yes, splitters will be green labeled. Their house currently has no internet, so will have to deal with that later and add a CCK somewhere.

Thanks again for the outstanding help you provide!


----------



## Vinny

Hi VOS...

After trying weeks to get my MRV to work (BTW thanks for your help)...nothing seemed to get it going.

I just upgraded to the HR34-700. I only have 2 DVR's the new HR34 and the old reliable HR20. The technician seemed pretty knowledgeble; and got the Whole Home working pretty quickly. So I am back to being able to watch programming from either STB to either STB.

However, MediaShare isn't working nor is Directv2pc.

*HR34:*
From what I can see; the DCA is powered in wall outlet and connected via ethernet to router and coax connected to HR34. No ethernet cable is hardwired to HR34 from router.

*HR20:*
The WGA600N has been removed. A SWM ODU is connected to coax (originally connected to HR20) and powered. Other coax is connected to Sat 1 in to HR20.

As I said, MRV is working fine. Both are connected to internet and On Demand is working.

What isn't working is MediaShare and Directv2PC.

BTW, iPad app is working fine with both receivers.

I will appreciate any help you can give.

Thanks
Vinny


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> Hi VOS...
> 
> After trying weeks to get my MRV to work (BTW thanks for your help)...nothing seemed to get it going.
> 
> Thanks
> Vinny


Your HR20 needs a DECA, which it must have for MRV to work and internet "it seems".

Mediashare isn't something I've spend any time with, as it's always been a bit flaky.

DirecTV2PC works on both HR2x, and HR34, but this is only true with a software update for the 34. Not sure which you have or when you might see a newer version, but the 34 used to only show single recordings and not any folders.


----------



## Vinny

Sorry...just checked the HR20 and it does have a Deca.

I use Tversity....its not seeing either STB.

HR34 is currently updating to 05D3.
HR20 is running current [redacted]


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> I use Tversity....its not seeing either STB.


Never used Tversity :shrug:


----------



## Vinny

OK...Tversity isn't really the issue, i don't think.

I guess I have 2 questions:

1) Should the HRs show up when viewing the Windows Network?
2) Directv2pc should work regardless of media share software, right?


----------



## veryoldschool

Vinny said:


> OK...Tversity isn't really the issue, i don't think.
> 
> I guess I have 2 questions:
> 
> 1) Should the HRs show up when viewing the Windows Network?
> 2) Directv2pc should work regardless of media share software, right?


Yes, on both counts.
If they don't, it may be in your router settings or what you have set under windows.


----------



## Brubear

I have an hr24-500 that will not connect to the whole home or the internet. The main unit is an hr34, with 3 additional hr24s. The switch is a swim-16. Internet conection is a bb deca. All but this unit can see the internet and each other's playlist. It's in a back bedroom so it hasn't been an issue but now is. 
S/W version is ox5d2 6/19/2012. It would not upload the new software even when a force was attempted. Signal strength on 101 is as follows:

97 95 97 0 97 97 96 98
96 95 97 0 97 99 96 100
97 0 97 0 97 97 97 100
97 0 97 0 98 100 97 100

All units show similar 101 signal strength. 

I have the Protection Plan Premier but they advised that the error code 86 was a known issue with the HR24-500 and declined a service call under coverage. I know the numbers aren't right but at a loss as to where to go from here. Any ideas?


----------



## veryoldschool

Brubear said:


> I have an hr24-500 that will not connect to the whole home or the internet. The main unit is an hr34, with 3 additional hr24s. The switch is a swim-16. Internet conection is a bb deca. All but this unit can see the internet and each other's playlist. It's in a back bedroom so it hasn't been an issue but now is.
> S/W version is ox5d2 6/19/2012. It would not upload the new software even when a force was attempted. Signal strength on 101 is as follows:
> 
> 97 95 97 0 97 97 96 98
> 96 95 97 0 97 99 96 100
> 97 0 97 0 97 97 97 100
> 97 0 97 0 98 100 97 100
> 
> All units show similar 101 signal strength.
> 
> I have the Protection Plan Premier but they advised that the error code 86 was a known issue with the HR24-500 and declined a service call under coverage. I know the numbers aren't right but at a loss as to where to go from here. Any ideas?


You can check under the system info and see if it says "coax connected" under networking, which is sounds like it isn't.

If an ethernet cable was connected it disables the internal DECA/coax networking.
Sometimes you need to rerun the SAT setup to get the DECA turned back on.


----------



## Brubear

coax unconnected, has since the install of the swim 16. It has always been connected previously, never than by bb deca


----------



## veryoldschool

Brubear said:


> coax unconnected, has since the install of the swim 16. It has always been connected previously, never than by bb deca


So getting the internal DECA active is what you need to address.

Re-run the SAT setup and reboot the HR24. If this doesn't get it to work, then move this DVR to another [working] coax and see if it works there.
If it does, then the coax to the original location may have problems.
If it doesn't then it may need to be replaced.


----------



## Brubear

ty. I had already done all that including doing a reset everything and to no avail. It gives me the "downloading additional software" message, hangs up, goes to channel 1 and within 30 seconds resets, and then loads normally. I still think the additional 0s I'm seeing are indicative of something. Normally in this market just the 4th one in each line is 0. I'm going to take a look at the exterior tomorrow and see if I see anything out of the ordinary. I'm also going to test the "known issue" theory and hook it directly to the router via ethernet. Thanks for all your help, VOS - both with this and everyday. DBSTalk is a godsend.


----------



## rahlquist

vos,

Are the stats screens here http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2885885&postcount=41 available on every box? If so how does one reach them?

Thanks!

OOPS found it RT arrow on reciver and guide


----------



## veryoldschool

rahlquist said:


> vos,
> 
> Are the stats screens here http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2885885&postcount=41 available on every box? If so how does one reach them?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> OOPS found it RT arrow on reciver and guide


"Every box" from the H/HR24 and newer.


----------



## pappys

VOS, I just got my new HR34. I cannot seem to get PIP and double play to work. I have deca's installed. I am doing a RBR, but don't know if it is going to fix anything. Any idea what might be causing it not to be able to do these features?
.
Never mind, the RBR fixed it.


----------



## Transeau

VOS, quick question.
is there an optimal layout for my system? I'm getting ready to rewire my whole house and it would be a good time to do my DTV too. It's a fairly system system, as follows...

HR34 -> SWM power -> 1x2 Splitter -> dish
HR24 -> 1x2 splitter - dish

(just the one splitter, which is in the garage right now)

My thoughts were to change it and put the power just off the dish, with the splitter MUCH closer to the receivers. As of now, the receivers have about 150ft of 30 year old RG6 between them (75ft each to the splitter) and another 25ft form the splitter to the dish. if I run all new cable, I can end up with about 20ft between the receivers (HR24 <-- 5ft --> splitter <-- 15ft --> HR34) Then a 50ft run to the power and dish.

Is this reasonable, or is there a better way to do it?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## veryoldschool

Transeau said:


> VOS, quick question.
> is there an optimal layout for my system? I'm getting ready to rewire my whole house and it would be a good time to do my DTV too. It's a fairly system system, as follows...
> 
> HR34 -> SWM power -> 1x2 Splitter -> dish
> HR24 -> 1x2 splitter - dish
> 
> (just the one splitter, which is in the garage right now)
> 
> My thoughts were to change it and put the power just off the dish, with the splitter MUCH closer to the receivers. As of now, the receivers have about 150ft of 30 year old RG6 between them (75ft each to the splitter) and another 25ft form the splitter to the dish. if I run all new cable, I can end up with about 20ft between the receivers (HR24 <-- 5ft --> splitter <-- 15ft --> HR34) Then a 50ft run to the power and dish.
> 
> Is this reasonable, or is there a better way to do it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Seems reasonable. I have my PI close, and the splitter after the PI.
Short coax is good and it doesn't matter where the splitter is.


----------



## Transeau

veryoldschool said:


> Seems reasonable. I have my PI close, and the splitter after the PI.
> Short coax is good and it doesn't matter where the splitter is.


perfect, thanks for such a quick response - your help is always greatly appreciated.


----------



## kleps

VOS I'M looking to upgrade to a HR34.....I have a SWM and a 4way splitter already....runnin 3 DVR's now with the fourth output terminated....my question is if I switch this to a one 34 one 24 and one client...does the one client have to have a splitter on it since it's only one tuner or can I just use the same line coming from the switch without a splitter.....Thanks Tim


----------



## veryoldschool

kleps said:


> VOS I'M looking to upgrade to a HR34.....I have a SWM and a 4way splitter already....runnin 3 DVR's now with the fourth output terminated....my question is if I switch this to a one 34 one 24 and one client...does the one client have to have a splitter on it since it's only one tuner or can I just use the same line coming from the switch without a splitter.....Thanks Tim


Not sure I understand the question.

You've currently got three "drops" feeding receivers [six tuners].
Swapping one DVR with a 34, means 5 tuners, and guessing you're keeping a HR24, means you're up to 7 tuners.

The "client" I'm guessing is a Genie client, which has no tuner, and can go on the third coax drop.


----------



## kleps

Yes...exactly...each drop feeds 2 tuners....does the third drop going to the client have to be split with a green splitter so that only one tuner from the Genie gets there or doesn't it matter as long as it gets there...guess the short question is will the client work from the one drop or will think it's getting 2 and not work....sorry to be confusing but there probably not gonna let me install myself...wanted to be in the know in case I get an idiot for an installer.....Tim


----------



## veryoldschool

kleps said:


> Yes...exactly...each drop feeds 2 tuners....does the third drop going to the client have to be split with a green splitter so that only one tuner from the Genie gets there or doesn't it matter as long as it gets there...guess the short question is will the client work from the one drop or will think it's getting 2 and not work....sorry to be confusing but there probably not gonna let me install myself...wanted to be in the know in case I get an idiot for an installer.....Tim


One drop is all you CAN connect to a client. :lol:

The clients work off of the coax networking signals, which pass through all the coax.

From a client, you can setup double play, so it actually uses two tuners of the Genie.


----------



## kleps

OK so connect one drop to the client and I'm good to go....also while I'm in here from what I've read if I connect my home network to the Genie via ethernet it will do MRV to the client and the HR24 on it's own.....I won't need the CCK kit and will still get VOD...is that right...if so this will free up a ethernet connection downstairs for my other Blu-Ray player.....


----------



## veryoldschool

kleps said:


> OK so connect one drop to the client and I'm good to go....also while I'm in here from what I've read if I connect my home network to the Genie via ethernet it will do MRV to the client and the HR24 on it's own.....I won't need the CCK kit and will still get VOD...is that right...if so this will free up a ethernet connection downstairs for my other Blu-Ray player.....


MRV will be over coax/DECA. 
Yes the Genie is the only receiver that can also have an ethernet cable to have internet access for the coax network.


----------



## kleps

Now that I'm armed with the right info it's time to see what kind of deal I can get on a Genie....Thank you VOS


----------



## graysonmoore

So I've tried everything I can think of and have read from earlier whole home DVR discussions, but figured I would pick your brains. I recently moved one H25-500 receiver from the kitchen into the living room on the same floor. I receive satellite signal and can watch live TV, but cannot seem to get connected to the H24 DVR in the basement. The H25 connected fine in the kitchen, but doesn't ever seem to be able to connect to the DVR in its new location. 

When I go into the status menus, I see Coax: Connected, and Internet: Not Connected (13). I have tried restarting all components (including my Verizon FiOS router, Cisco wireless router, DirecTV SWM power inserter, DECA, H24, H25s, etc.) to no avail, following instructions provided by VOS in earlier threads. 

Any suggestions? Everything works on the unit but connectivity to the DVR.

THanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

graysonmoore said:


> So I've tried everything I can think of and have read from earlier whole home DVR discussions, but figured I would pick your brains. I recently moved one H25-500 receiver from the kitchen into the living room on the same floor. I receive satellite signal and can watch live TV, but cannot seem to get connected to the H24 DVR in the basement. The H25 connected fine in the kitchen, but doesn't ever seem to be able to connect to the DVR in its new location.
> 
> When I go into the status menus, I see Coax: Connected, and Internet: Not Connected (13). I have tried restarting all components (including my Verizon FiOS router, Cisco wireless router, DirecTV SWM power inserter, DECA, H24, H25s, etc.) to no avail, following instructions provided by VOS in earlier threads.
> 
> Any suggestions? Everything works on the unit but connectivity to the DVR.
> 
> THanks!


This looks like a puzzle. :lol:

The H25 shows it's coax connected, but no internet or MRV.
I wonder what it is connecting to.

To find out, press the guide and right arrow on the front panel. This should bring up a menu with coax on the left. It may take a few tries to get the menu, where you'll select coax.
Check the list of nodes shown and the loss indicated to each.
Compare this to the same test on your HR24.

Maybe post what each show here and use the last four of each MAC address so they can be compared.

"My first guess", is the H25 is connecting to another receiver, but the coax has too much loss to connect to the DVR and the DECA for internet.


----------



## graysonmoore

Hey VOS! Thanks so much for your help. When I access the menu on the 25, the signal strength in the root menu is shown as: Tuner 1: 95%, Network Tuner: 68%-72% (it varies). However, when I go into the Coax sub-menu, the info screen is blank, the Phy Rate Mesh screen is blank - no details or other information is displayed.

When I go downstairs to the HR24-500 (HDDVR), I get:
Signal Strength: Tuner 1: 96%, Tuner 2: 100%, Network Tuner: 99%.

Diving into the Coax Network menu, I have the following: 
Node 0: last four MAC 3215... - Phy Levels -34
Node 1: last four MAC 3215... - Phy Levels N/A
Node 2: last four MAC 4DEC... - Phy Levels -16
(I can't seem to expand the list to see the end of the MAC addresses.)
Dropped session count is 0.

Appreciate your help.


----------



## veryoldschool

graysonmoore said:


> Hey VOS! Thanks so much for your help. When I access the menu on the 25, the signal strength in the root menu is shown as: Tuner 1: 95%, Network Tuner: 68%-72% (it varies). However, when I go into the Coax sub-menu, the info screen is blank, the Phy Rate Mesh screen is blank - no details or other information is displayed.
> 
> When I go downstairs to the HR24-500 (HDDVR), I get:
> Signal Strength: Tuner 1: 96%, Tuner 2: 100%, Network Tuner: 99%.
> 
> Diving into the Coax Network menu, I have the following:
> Node 0: last four MAC 3215... - Phy Levels -34
> Node 1: last four MAC 3215... - Phy Levels N/A
> Node 2: last four MAC 4DEC... - Phy Levels -16
> (I can't seem to expand the list to see the end of the MAC addresses.)
> Dropped session count is 0.
> 
> Appreciate your help.


"We" don't care about the tuners at this point, so it's the coax menu/test that you want.

If the H25 isn't returning anything, then it isn't "coax connected" at this location.

"for grins" [well to really get another look at this] try moving this H25 back where it worked before and run this test again.
The HR24 is finding your DECA for internet and one other receiver.

This "new location" might have a diplexer in the line and this will block the coax network signal, but not the SAT signals.


----------



## graysonmoore

Hey VOS,

Just wanted to post an update. Figured I would tear through the attic and see if I could locate the coax for the new location. Ended up replacing some crappy looking splices in the cabling and crimping on new F connectors, and bingo! Signal problems solved and Whole Home DVR is now working. Really appreciate your help in figuring this all out. Had no idea that the broadcast signal would transmit whereas the network would not - but now we are good to go. 

My thanks for your support - your knowledge, expertise and patience are far above and beyond what DirecTV provides!


----------



## veryoldschool

graysonmoore said:


> Hey VOS,
> 
> Just wanted to post an update. Figured I would tear through the attic and see if I could locate the coax for the new location. Ended up replacing some crappy looking splices in the cabling and crimping on new F connectors, and bingo! Signal problems solved and Whole Home DVR is now working. Really appreciate your help in figuring this all out. Had no idea that the broadcast signal would transmit whereas the network would not - but now we are good to go.
> 
> My thanks for your support - your knowledge, expertise and patience are far above and beyond what DirecTV provides!


Thanks for the update.
I would have expected a diplexer or BSF to have been the problem more than bad cable or connectors. Either of these [as you seemed to have found] could have been the problem, but it's a rare case where the networking goes down but not the SAT signals, which are higher in frequency and "normally" more prone to having problems first.


----------



## Satchaser

I just upgraded from ATT DSL (PPOE) to ATT Uverse (ADSL2+) and can no longer get DECA cloud to connect to the Internet. The new modem/router is the ATT firmware version of Motorola NVG510. I am connecting to Interned with the earlier version of the hardwired CCK which has no resets etc. I had very stable connections with the old DSL service through my Netgear WNDR 3300 modem/router. 

The setup now allows me to configure Static IP's on all receivers and DVR's and the "deca cloud" works perfectly. I cannot get network services to assign ports ( apparently unpn is disabled in the router). I have tried both automatic and manual configuration of Network Services to no avail. As a result, the receivers and DVR's do not register the IP's assigned them through manual configuration as the do not show up in attached devices and they are not pingable. In order to do port forwarding in The NVG510 each receiver etc must have a valid IP addr in the NVG510 table.

Long story but very frustrated with this piece of Motorola crap (ATT)

Suggestions and help appreciated


----------



## veryoldschool

Satchaser said:


> I just upgraded from ATT DSL (PPOE) to ATT Uverse (ADSL2+) and can no longer get DECA cloud to connect to the Internet. The new modem/router is the ATT firmware version of Motorola NVG510. I am connecting to Interned with the earlier version of the hardwired CCK which has no resets etc. I had very stable connections with the old DSL service through my Netgear WNDR 3300 modem/router.
> 
> The setup now allows me to configure Static IP's on all receivers and DVR's and the "deca cloud" works perfectly. I cannot get network services to assign ports ( apparently unpn is disabled in the router). I have tried both automatic and manual configuration of Network Services to no avail. As a result, the receivers and DVR's do not register the IP's assigned them through manual configuration as the do not show up in attached devices and they are not pingable. In order to do port forwarding in The NVG510 each receiver etc must have a valid IP addr in the NVG510 table.
> 
> Long story but very frustrated with this piece of Motorola crap (ATT)
> 
> Suggestions and help appreciated


When I changed from AT&T DSL to U-who, I reset each receiver's network defaults.


----------



## Satchaser

veryoldschool said:


> When I changed from AT&T DSL to U-who, I reset each receiver's network defaults.


Good advice, set router to defaults,reconfigured subnet on router (probable solution, the ATT provisioned provides incorrect subnet mask on passthrough setting), set receivers to default and they obtained IP by DHCP. I was able to setup fixed IP's which I prefer.

Thanks again for. The advice!


----------



## Riverpilot

Good sir VOS,

I am again (still) having problems with "searching for signal on satellite in 2... (771))...

I only see this error on my hr34. I've made sure all connections (on the inside) are all tight and secure, all unused lines are capped etc.. Ive not checked the connections on the outside yet.

I did, prior to this weekend, have pretty good luck with "fixing" the issue by viewing signal strength, and going through all the pages.. for whatever reason it seemed to work. Now however, I'm not having any luck.

Suggestions before I call? I've also rebooted many times, and this time it seems stuck.


----------



## Rtm

I plugged in and connected a Wireless CCK on an HR24. The house has 4 receivers an HR24, H25, and 2 THR22.

The HR24 and H25 have internet and are fine. Yes the THR22s don't have internet, whole-home, and neither even has a deca but are the 2 THR22s fully functional as if I never installed the Wireless CCK.

In other words this isn't going to have an adverse effect on them?


----------



## veryoldschool

Riverpilot said:


> Good sir VOS,
> 
> I am again (still) having problems with "searching for signal on satellite in 2... (771))...
> 
> I only see this error on my hr34. I've made sure all connections (on the inside) are all tight and secure, all unused lines are capped etc.. Ive not checked the connections on the outside yet.
> 
> I did, prior to this weekend, have pretty good luck with "fixing" the issue by viewing signal strength, and going through all the pages.. for whatever reason it seemed to work. Now however, I'm not having any luck.
> 
> Suggestions before I call? I've also rebooted many times, and this time it seems stuck.


I'm no longer "up to speed" on your problem, but if you can check your outside connections, it sounds like a good thing to do.
If you don't find anything bad or loose, then maybe a service call will be needed, as using a meter will point to the problem.


----------



## veryoldschool

Rtm said:


> I plugged in and connected a Wireless CCK on an HR24. The house has 4 receivers an HR24, H25, and 2 THR22.
> 
> The HR24 and H25 have internet and are fine. Yes the THR22s don't have internet, whole-home, and neither even has a deca but are the 2 THR22s fully functional as if I never installed the Wireless CCK.
> 
> In other words this isn't going to have an adverse effect on them?


Mixing DECA with the THR22 means the THR22 needs to have band stop filters to block the DECA signal from their SAT tuner.


----------



## Riverpilot

veryoldschool said:


> I'm no longer "up to speed" on your problem, but if you can check your outside connections, it sounds like a good thing to do.
> If you don't find anything bad or loose, then maybe a service call will be needed, as using a meter will point to the problem.


I have no clue why it would just be tuner 2 on the hr34, which affects only certain channels, like 304.

I unplugged the power to the swm (16) and plugged back in, and I'm my channels back.

Directv is coming out tomorrow to look at everything.

All my other boxes are working fine as well. 4 h25.


----------



## veryoldschool

Riverpilot said:


> I have no clue why it would just be tuner 2 on the hr34, which affects only certain channels, like 304.
> 
> I unplugged the power to the swm (16) and plugged back in, and I'm my channels back.
> 
> Directv is coming out tomorrow to look at everything.
> 
> All my other boxes are working fine as well. 4 h25.


The 34 can be a bit harder to troubleshoot why one of it's five tuners are having a problem, and also be a bit more sensitive with problems on the coax from the -16, like open ports or unused coax being connected to splitters.
"I'm guessing" the 34 is on one leg/output of the -16 & the 25s are on the other.
You might try swapping outputs to see if the problem stays with the 34, or not.


----------



## Riverpilot

There isn't any unused coax or open ports. I was sure to clean that all up a few months ago. I even put a new coax from the swm to the 34. It's only a run of about 25 feet.

Yes, the 34 is on one side the 25s on the other. 
I'll just let the directv guy see what he can see. Unfortunately it's not a consistent thing. It may not happen again for weeks.

Thanks for the help though. Always appreciated


----------



## veryoldschool

Riverpilot said:


> There isn't any unused coax or open ports. I was sure to clean that all up a few months ago. I even put a new coax from the swm to the 34. It's only a run of about 25 feet.
> 
> Yes, the 34 is on one side the 25s on the other.
> I'll just let the directv guy see what he can see. Unfortunately it's not a consistent thing. It may not happen again for weeks.
> 
> Thanks for the help though. Always appreciated


Intermittent problems are always tough to find.

Let them "do their thing" and see what happens. If it comes back, I might swap the 34 with a 25 [change locations] as the SWiM will support this [maxing at 8 tuners] and see if it happens again. This "might point" to it being the 34.


----------



## Bill Broderick

VOS,
In anticipation of getting a Genie, I'm planning on converting my "classic" 2 line per DVR slimline system, with MRV via unsupported Ethernet, to SWM/DECA with a SWM-16. I currently have 2 HR-21's and 1 HR-20.

I know that I need to run a separate line with a Band Stop filter into Sat-1 on the HR-20. Since I already have two lines running from my WB68 multiswitch to the HR-20, can I just use one of those cables running from one of the 4 way SMW splitters that I will be installing or do I actually need to split a single wire behind the HR-20, using a two way splitter as this image shows, one that will go into the filter and into Sat-1 and the other that will go through a DECA and into Sat-2.

Since I already have a cable going from the existing multi-switch, I figure that if I can reuse that, why not?

Also, since one side of the SWM will only be going to 1 HR-21 (in the location where the Genie will eventually be located), is there any reason that I need to use a splitter between SWM2 and the DVR? Can I just run a single coax directly from SWM2 to the HR-21?


----------



## veryoldschool

Bill Broderick said:


> VOS,
> In anticipation of getting a Genie, I'm planning on converting my "classic" 2 line per DVR slimline system, with MRV via unsupported Ethernet, to SWM/DECA with a SWM-16. I currently have 2 HR-21's and 1 HR-20.
> 
> I know that I need to run a separate line with a Band Stop filter into Sat-1 on the HR-20. Since I already have two lines running from my WB68 multiswitch to the HR-20, can I just use one of those cables running from one of the 4 way SMW splitters that I will be installing or do I actually need to split a single wire behind the HR-20, using a two way splitter as this image shows, one that will go into the filter and into Sat-1 and the other that will go through a DECA and into Sat-2.
> 
> Since I already have a cable going from the existing multi-switch, I figure that if I can reuse that, why not?
> 
> Also, since one side of the SWM will only be going to 1 HR-21 (in the location where the Genie will eventually be located), is there any reason that I need to use a splitter between SWM2 and the DVR? Can I just run a single coax directly from SWM2 to the HR-21?


If you only need to feed one receiver off a SWiM output, you don't need a splitter.
The double coax would work, but remember it's only for the HR20-100 and NOT for the HR20-700.


----------



## Bill Broderick

veryoldschool said:


> The double coax would work, but remember it's only for the HR20-100 and NOT for the HR20-700.


I didn't realize that. I have an HR20-700. So it's a non-issue.

Thanks.


----------



## Jnelson

What is the longest run of coax from the SWM to an HD receiver you would recommend? I have a separate structure roughly 100 ft from where SWM is located and I'd like to get an HD receiver out there without putting up a second dish.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jnelson said:


> What is the longest run of coax from the SWM to an HD receiver you would recommend? I have a separate structure roughly 100 ft from where SWM is located and I'd like to get an HD receiver out there without putting up a second dish.


Both the splitter and coax loss will be what limits "the longest".

I wouldn't go longer than: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2934393&postcount=13


----------



## Jnelson

Thank you kind sir.


----------



## Jnelson

Is it possible to pair an HR22-100 with a pre-2005 dish? 

I have two systems, one with all the latest equipment and the other a legacy system on a separate structure on the property. The latter was set up 12 years ago and has one of the old round dishes and an R-15 receiver. I want to upgrade the old system, but DTV will/can not install a new dish because to do so would require tech to leave ladder and walk on the roof. (OSHA rule per 3rd level supervisor). Local retailer wants to $400 to install, which is a bit dear.

I have a spare HR22-100 that is attached to the main system (got an HR 34 and that rendered the HR22 unnecessary). I have tried to deploy as partial upgrade, but when I try to set up I get error message saying "problem communicating with dish". Tried an RBR but no joy. Is there a way to make this work?


----------



## veryoldschool

Jnelson said:


> Is it possible to pair an HR22-100 with a pre-2005 dish?
> 
> I have two systems, one with all the latest equipment and the other a legacy system on a separate structure on the property. The latter was set up 12 years ago and has one of the old round dishes and an R-15 receiver. I want to upgrade the old system, but DTV will/can not install a new dish because to do so would require tech to leave ladder and walk on the roof. (OSHA rule per 3rd level supervisor). Local retailer wants to $400 to install, which is a bit dear.
> 
> I have a spare HR22-100 that is attached to the main system (got an HR 34 and that rendered the HR22 unnecessary). I have tried to deploy as partial upgrade, but when I try to set up I get error message saying "problem communicating with dish". Tried an RBR but no joy. Is there a way to make this work?


It should work, but you need to change the SAT setup.
"problem communicating with dish" is from the receiver looking for a SWiM, but you have it connected to what sounds like the old 18" round dish.


----------



## Jnelson

Do I change Sat setup while the receiver is attached to main system, i.e. the one with the SWM? I can never reach that stage when I try to set it up on the old dish; just keep getting the error message.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jnelson said:


> Do I change Sat setup while the receiver is attached to main system, i.e. the one with the SWM? I can never reach that stage when I try to set it up on the old dish; just keep getting the error message.


When it's connected to a SWiM, the communication overrides things, so you'll need to not have it connected to a SWiM.
You should be able to press menu and get into the setup options.
The receiver tend to change to SWiM much easier than changing away from a SWiM, so you may need to try several times.


----------



## Jnelson

I will give it another try. Thanks for your help.


----------



## carl6

Keep in mind, you will only be able to receive/display SD stations even though you are using an HD receiver. You need to tell the receiver the correct dish in setup. All of the HD programming comes from 99 and 103, which are not supported by the older dish.


----------



## Jnelson

Understand carl6. Existing receiver is an R15, which is SD, so not losing anything. Gain, I hope, is internet capability. 

VOS: finally got it to work using front panel rather than remote. 

Thanks guys


----------



## hiline

Howdy

I hate for my second post to be a question. But, I've been searching and cannot find the answer. On a SWM 16 where does the legacy ports (mainly 1 & 2) fit in the main scheme of things? Do they count as tuners on 1-8 or 9-16 or?

Thanks


----------



## veryoldschool

hiline said:


> Howdy
> 
> I hate for my second post to be a question. But, I've been searching and cannot find the answer. On a SWM 16 where does the legacy ports (mainly 1 & 2) fit in the main scheme of things? Do they count as tuners on 1-8 or 9-16 or?
> 
> Thanks


Questions are why this thread and the forum is here.

The legacy ports are fed from the dish before the signals go to the SWiM section(s) so they are independent of the tuner count on each output.


----------



## hiline

Thanks for the quick reply. I was hoping they were more or less pass thru. That will work out perfectly. Also thanks to RatPatrol who sent me a PM. My post count wouldn't allow me to reply. I need to get on that next.


----------



## Jnelson

Had DTV change dish in my guest house to HD from SD. I ordered SWM equipment. Got home (my wife dealt with installer) to discover that the HR22 had both coax leads connected and there were BBCs attached. Can't be a SWM setup can it?


----------



## veryoldschool

Jnelson said:


> Had DTV change dish in my guest house to HD from SD. I ordered SWM equipment. Got home (my wife dealt with installer) to discover that the HR22 had both coax leads connected and there were BBCs attached. Can't be a SWM setup can it?


If it's working with BBCs, then it can't be a SWiM.


----------



## Jnelson

That's what I thought. Thanks.


----------



## Wolfmanjohn

VOS, I would like to go with a 34/44 Genie and 3 clients. Can I do that with a SL5-SWM LNB connected to the "power to SWiM" port of the PI, then connecting the "signal to IRD" PI port to a SWS4 splitter, running 1 line to the Genie and 1 line to each of the clients? Can it really be that simple/efficient? Is there any reason to get larger splitters or a SWM-8 involved here? Am I understanding things correctly, or do I need to educate myself more on SWiM/whole home theory and operation? Thanks in advance for your information, suggestions, advice, and thoughts.

I'm just dealing with signal distribution in this scenario. I'll ethernet the ATT DSL to the Genie and add a AM21 after the installer splits, if one gets involved.


----------



## veryoldschool

Wolfmanjohn said:


> VOS, I would like to go with a 34/44 Genie and 3 clients. Can I do that with a SL5-SWM LNB connected to the "power to SWiM" port of the PI, then connecting the "signal to IRD" PI port to a SWS4 splitter, running 1 line to the Genie and 1 line to each of the clients? Can it really be that simple/efficient? Is there any reason to get larger splitters or a SWM-8 involved here? Am I understanding things correctly, or do I need to educate myself more on SWiM/whole home theory and operation? Thanks in advance for your information, suggestions, advice, and thoughts.
> 
> I'm just dealing with signal distribution in this scenario. I'll ethernet the ATT DSL to the Genie and add a AM21 after the installer splits, if one gets involved.


Yes, it really is "that simple".


----------



## Wolfmanjohn

Thanks for your reply, VOS; it is greatly appreciated! Time to go have some fun!


----------



## hiline

I luv this thread. I learn something new every time I come over here


----------



## Wolfmanjohn

Wolfmanjohn said:


> VOS, I would like to go with a 34/44 Genie and 3 clients. Can I do that with a SL5-SWM LNB connected to the "power to SWiM" port of the PI, then connecting the "signal to IRD" PI port to a SWS4 splitter, running 1 line to the Genie and 1 line to each of the clients? Can it really be that simple/efficient? Is there any reason to get larger splitters or a SWM-8 involved here? Am I understanding things correctly, or do I need to educate myself more on SWiM/whole home theory and operation? Thanks in advance for your information, suggestions, advice, and thoughts.
> 
> I'm just dealing with signal distribution in this scenario. I'll ethernet the ATT DSL to the Genie and add a AM21 after the installer splits, if one gets involved.


VOS, if I replace 1 of the clients with a HR23-700 (which I already have), is the above LNB/PI/SWS4 scenario still feasible? I count 7 tuners, but am I counting correctly? Also guessing DECA (no power supply, no B-band or BSF) will be necessary on that 23. Thanks again!


----------



## veryoldschool

Wolfmanjohn said:


> VOS, if I replace 1 of the clients with a HR23-700 (which I already have), is the above LNB/PI/SWS4 scenario still feasible? I count 7 tuners, but am I counting correctly? Also guessing DECA (no power supply, no B-band or BSF) will be necessary on that 23. Thanks again!


This was one of my setups:










Which seems to be what you're looking to do.


----------



## Bill Broderick

Last week, in anticipation of a Genie install, I replaced my WB68 with a SWM-16. After the install, while doing the Dish Setup, I was getting a failure on 103 LNB, both odd and even, on all DVR's. However, after continuing, the setup completed and I got a picture on all channels.

Throughout the week, I checked the signal strength of all sats a few times. I have strong signals on 101, 110 & 119 (90-100), mid-80's to low 90's on 99(c) and low 70's to 90 on 103 (ca) and low 80's-low 90's on 103 (cb).

Today, while fixing a cable I didn't properly secure last week, I decided to swap the two sets of cables between the dish and the SWM with one another. So, the cables that were going into 99/101 on the SWM-16 are now going into 103/110/119 and vice versa. I figured that this would tell me if I had a cable problem.

When I reran the setup, the only difference is that I only failed on 103 even transponders. However, today the sky is completely clear. So, I'm assuming that is accounting for the improved signal on 103 odd (the lowest signal strength on the odd is 80, so I think that barely passed). On 103 (cb) all of the even transponders are in the 70's and the odd transponders are between 80 & 90.

Other than needing a new LNB (which, I'm not doing myself), are there other things that I should try checking?

Attached are photos of the various signal strength screens.


----------



## Wolfmanjohn

veryoldschool said:


> This was one of my setups:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which seems to be what you're looking to do.


That's close enough for me to work with; thanks again!


----------



## veryoldschool

Bill Broderick said:


> Last week, in anticipation of a Genie install, I replaced my WB68 with a SWM-16. After the install, while doing the Dish Setup, I was getting a failure on 103 LNB, both odd and even, on all DVR's. However, after continuing, the setup completed and I got a picture on all channels.
> 
> Throughout the week, I checked the signal strength of all sats a few times. I have strong signals on 101, 110 & 119 (90-100), mid-80's to low 90's on 99(c) and low 70's to 90 on 103 (ca) and low 80's-low 90's on 103 (cb).
> 
> Today, while fixing a cable I didn't properly secure last week, I decided to swap the two sets of cables between the dish and the SWM with one another. So, the cables that were going into 99/101 on the SWM-16 are now going into 103/110/119 and vice versa. I figured that this would tell me if I had a cable problem.
> 
> When I reran the setup, the only difference is that I only failed on 103 even transponders. However, today the sky is completely clear. So, I'm assuming that is accounting for the improved signal on 103 odd (the lowest signal strength on the odd is 80, so I think that barely passed). On 103 (cb) all of the even transponders are in the 70's and the odd transponders are between 80 & 90.
> 
> Other than needing a new LNB (which, I'm not doing myself), are there other things that I should try checking?
> 
> Attached are photos of the various signal strength screens.


I know the red x comes from a TP on one of the 103 SATs not having enough SNR/CNR. This could be as little as 0.5 dB low.
The signal screens don't really show/point to which.
I've seen the same and used a AIM to find the SAT/TP causing it.
This might be from the dish not being optimized for the 103 SAT.
Being on the west coast, for me it's the 99c SAT that is the hardest, so I dither the dish for 99 to be its best and don't need to worry about the others.


----------



## Bill Broderick

OK. Thanks. Since it works (it just seems to be more susceptible to rain fade), I'll wait until I order the Genie (waiting on the HR-44 before doing so) and ask the installer to take a look at the dish, while I install the receiver.


----------



## veryoldschool

Bill Broderick said:


> OK. Thanks. Since it works (it just seems to be more susceptible to rain fade), I'll wait until I order the Genie (waiting on the HR-44 before doing so) and ask the installer to take a look at the dish, while I install the receiver.


"Yep" have him to a verification at the dish.
DirecTV has raised the bar for passing this test in hopes to improve the customer's experience. 
Rainfade may always be with us, but if the alignment is the best it can be, it limits the amount.


----------



## sgibson

veryoldschool said:


> For each 2-way split is costs about the same 5 dB as 50' of coax [at the high frequency end].
> 
> Maybe a break down of splitters would help:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see a 4-way output has gone through two 2-ways, and a 8-way has gone through three.
> Each time you go through one, it has ~ 5 dB of loss.
> SWiM to receiver can only have 30 dB of loss, so the less splitter loss, the longer coax you can have.
> The less loss total, the less rainfade you will have, "but" the rain can get heavy enough to end up with no signal too.


Hello VOS,

Wish I found this info before I changed my 2-wire system to 1-wire.
(Soon to go whole house and Internet)
My install is an 8-SWM, PI29 (with 18" Quad RG6 connection) and 6' Quad RG6 from PI29 to 8-way splitter.
I kept getting lots of "771" errors on HR21, HR22. 2-HR24s were okay(No decas used on HR21,22). After several red button resets, all HRs are ok. Now that it's working, I found the info your "Official VOS Thread". (I know, I shoulda look here first.) Should I leave as is (No rain to check fade issues yet) or move PI29 further from SWM? Should I change 8-way splitter to 4-way? (8-way came with the SWM and PI29 I bought new in boxes from the "B"ig Auction place.) I do plan on adding at least one more device to the 8-way splitter in the very near future.

Special thanks for all the invaluable info/tips/help you and others (Lamont Cranston) here have provided!

Regards,
sgibson


----------



## veryoldschool

sgibson said:


> Hello VOS,
> 
> Wish I found this info before I changed my 2-wire system to 1-wire.
> (Soon to go whole house and Internet)
> My install is an 8-SWM, PI29 (with 18" Quad RG6 connection) and 6' Quad RG6 from PI29 to 8-way splitter.
> I kept getting lots of "771" errors on HR21, HR22. 2-HR24s were okay(No decas used on HR21,22). After several red button resets, all HRs are ok. Now that it's working, I found the info your "Official VOS Thread". (I know, I shoulda look here first.) Should I leave as is (No rain to check fade issues yet) or move PI29 further from SWM? Should I change 8-way splitter to 4-way? (8-way came with the SWM and PI29 I bought new in boxes from the "B"ig Auction place.) I do plan on adding at least one more device to the 8-way splitter in the very near future.
> 
> Special thanks for all the invaluable info/tips/help you and others (Lamont Cranston) here have provided!
> 
> Regards,
> sgibson


There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port.
You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add, but it can't have a tuner and work.
If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters.
As for swapping the 8-way splitter for a 4-way, if the coax lengths are less than 140', you won't see much [any] difference. If you're close to the 140', then changing would give you some "reserve" [headroom].

Some later testing showed the SWiM to receiver loss has little affect on rainfade


----------



## sgibson

veryoldschool said:


> There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
> Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port.
> You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add, but it can't have a tuner and work.
> If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters.
> As for swapping the 8-way splitter for a 4-way, if the coax lengths are less than 140', you won't see much [any] difference. If you're close to the 140', then changing would give you some "reserve" [headroom].
> 
> Some later testing showed the SWiM to receiver loss has little affect on rainfade


Mornin' VOS, 
Thanks for the quick reply.

My runs are:
From SL3PIG-Z Dish to SWM-8 is 4 x (25ft outside, 20ft inside) 45ft.
SWM-8 to PI29 = 1 x 1.5ft.
PI29 to 8-way splitter = 1 x 6ft.
From SWM-8 are from 15ft. to max of 30ft.
Total longest run = 82.5 ft.

I want to do whole house and VOD. (I currently have Cat-5 at all but one location)

"...There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port."
Which option do you think is preferable?
I can do either one.

"...You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add,..."
No more DRVs, I'm planning on Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01) and/or?
DirecTV CCK-Cinema Connection Kit.

"...If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters."
Hmm...I was gonna use Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01)on the HR21,22

Your thoughts?
sgibson


----------



## veryoldschool

sgibson said:


> Mornin' VOS,
> Thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> My runs are:
> From SL3PIG-Z Dish to SWM-8 is 4 x (25ft outside, 20ft inside) 45ft.
> SWM-8 to PI29 = 1 x 1.5ft.
> PI29 to 8-way splitter = 1 x 6ft.
> From SWM-8 are from 15ft. to max of 30ft.
> Total longest run = 82.5 ft.
> 
> I want to do whole house and VOD.
> 
> "...There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
> Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port."
> Which option do you think is preferable?
> I can do either one.
> 
> "...You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add,..."
> No more DRVs, I'm planning on Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01) and/or?
> DirecTV CCK-Cinema Connection Kit.
> 
> "...If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters."
> Hmm...I was gonna use Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01)on the HR21,22
> 
> Your thoughts?
> sgibson


I'd move the PI over to the #3 legacy port. The distance then doesn't matter and you won't be adding coax.
The DECA1MR01 isn't really the BB DECA/CCK, but can be used as one with a PI.
This is a BB DECA/CCK: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=decabb1r0&d=directv-cinema-connection-kit-(decabb1r0)
But so it this:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...ma-connection-kit-w/-power-supply-(decabb1r0)
With the lengths you have, there really isn't a problem keeping the 8-way.


----------



## sgibson

veryoldschool said:


> I'd move the PI over to the #3 legacy port. The distance then doesn't matter and you won't be adding coax.
> The DECA1MR01 isn't really the BB DECA/CCK, but can be used as one with a PI.
> This is a BB DECA/CCK: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=decabb1r0&d=directv-cinema-connection-kit-(decabb1r0)
> But so it this:
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...ma-connection-kit-w/-power-supply-(decabb1r0)
> With the lengths you have, there really isn't a problem keeping the 8-way.


It's me again VOS,

I'm confused about the PI29>SWM-8>8-way Splitter???
Looking over the wiring diagrams to the SolidSignal Links you provided, shows
I have to re-route PI>SWM>Splitter connections to do BB Decka/CCK

Here's my current setup...what's wrong with this picture?

Thanks for your help,sgibson


----------



## veryoldschool

sgibson said:


> It's me again VOS,
> 
> I'm confused about the PI29>SWM-8>8-way Splitter???
> Looking over the wiring diagrams to the SolidSignal Links you provided, shows
> I have to re-route PI>SWM>Splitter connections to do BB Decka/CCK
> 
> Here's my current setup...what's wrong with this picture?
> 
> Thanks for your help,sgibson


I'm a bit  too, as your picture looks fairly simple.

The coax from the PI [to splitter] needs to be over to the SWM#1 and the coax between the SWM8 and PI needs to move to the Legacy #3.
You seems to have plenty of coax to do this.
Your BB DECA can be connected to the output of the splitter.


----------



## mjm76

I have WHDVR with DirecTV and I have the HR34-700. I am confused about something.

I thought I was connected to the internet via the HR34-700 but now I am not so sure.

What advantage is there to have your HR34-700 box connected to the internet provide?

I thought it was for VOD, but I have been used that and it appeared to work, so what good is an internet connection to the boxes and what is it used for.

any information would be appreciated. I thought I was connected but today my son came home and his XBOX 360 would not connect to our network and the problem I believe is the Wireless N video game adapter was not set up properly with our new Uverse gateway. I have the exact same network adapter connected to the HR34-700 and I have not reconfigured it since I have gotten the new Uverse gateway. I assumed it was working OK.
I have not noticed any problems with my WHDVR and in fact no set top receivers have been dropping off the network.


----------



## veryoldschool

mjm76 said:


> I have WHDVR with DirecTV and I have the HR34-700. I am confused about something.
> 
> I thought I was connected to the internet via the HR34-700 but now I am not so sure.
> 
> What advantage is there to have your HR34-700 box connected to the internet provide?
> 
> I thought it was for VOD, but I have been used that and it appeared to work, so what good is an internet connection to the boxes and what is it used for.
> 
> any information would be appreciated. I thought I was connected but today my son came home and his XBOX 360 would not connect to our network and the problem I believe is the Wireless N video game adapter was not set up properly with our new Uverse gateway. I have the exact same network adapter connected to the HR34-700 and I have not reconfigured it since I have gotten the new Uverse gateway. I assumed it was working OK.
> I have not noticed any problems with my WHDVR and in fact no set top receivers have been dropping off the network.


You can check the internet status by going into the setup menu and running the system test, or going to more info and looking at the network status.

On Demand may be the biggest use, but there are other options like watching You-tube and listening to Pandora, along with ordering PPV without a phone line.


----------



## jsmuga

I will be installing a Nomad this week. My question is do I need to plug it directly into the router or is ok to plug it into a switch that is connected to the router. 

Thanks for the help.


----------



## RAD

jsmuga;3203084 said:


> I will be installing a Nomad this week. My question is do I need to plug it directly into the router or is ok to plug it into a switch that is connected to the router.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Just as long as it has network connectivity to the HD DVR's, on the same IP network address range, then it doesn't matter.


----------



## jsmuga

RAD said:


> Just as long as it has network connectivity to the HD DVR's, on the same IP network address range, then it doesn't matter.


Thank you for the help.......


----------



## Rtm

SWM-16 is what I have and I have a Slimeline-3 something, should I choose "03: Slimline-3" or "17: Slimline-3S (SWM)".

Receivers were set to 17 but installer replaced some and set the new H25s as 03?


----------



## veryoldschool

Rtm said:


> SWM-16 is what I have and I have a Slimeline-3 something, should I choose "03: Slimline-3" or "17: Slimline-3S (SWM)".
> 
> Receivers were set to 17 but installer replaced some and set the new H25s as 03?


You should have two entries:
The LNB and the Switch below it.
I'm using a SL5, so 04 was shown, and below was the SWM switch for my -16.

If you don't have both entries, then the 17 would be my choice.


----------



## Rtm

veryoldschool said:


> You should have two entries:
> The LNB and the Switch below it.
> I'm using a SL5, so 04 was shown, and below was the SWM switch for my -16.
> 
> If you don't have both entries, then the 17 would be my choice.


Thanks! all I have under Switch type on both is a greyed out box that says 01: SWM


----------



## Davenlr

Need confirmation of a bad SWM16...

Original config: 4 lines from dish to SWM16. Two DVRS, and two receivers (6 tuners) all on a SWS4 plugged into port 1 on SWM16: Worked

Upgrade config 1: Genie and DVR on port 1, two receivers on port 2 using SWS4: Worked for two days until today, when temp got to 85. Started getting 771 error, and communicating with dish error on all locations. Signals going from all 99's to Not Aquired and back.

REconfig 2: Put everything back the way it was originally, and plugged line to GENIE into port 2. All receivers and DVR worked ok, Genie would not aquire signal.

REconfig 3 for test: Put ALL tuners (9) on port 1. All worked except Genie. Channel changes on other boxes took upwards of 30 seconds.

Final solution: Put all boxes on port 1, through SWS4, but disabled a tuner on DVR (for a total of 8 tuners now). Genie booted up, and configured fine. Channels changes back to normal.

My conclusion is a bad port 2 on the SWM16. Would you confirm?


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> Need confirmation of a bad SWM16...
> 
> Original config: 4 lines from dish to SWM16. Two DVRS, and two receivers (6 tuners) all on a SWS4 plugged into port 1 on SWM16: Worked
> 
> Upgrade config 1: Genie and DVR on port 1, two receivers on port 2 using SWS4: Worked for two days until today, when temp got to 85. Started getting 771 error, and communicating with dish error on all locations. Signals going from all 99's to Not Aquired and back.
> 
> REconfig 2: Put everything back the way it was originally, and plugged line to GENIE into port 2. All receivers and DVR worked ok, Genie would not aquire signal.
> 
> REconfig 3 for test: Put ALL tuners (9) on port 1. All worked except Genie. Channel changes on other boxes took upwards of 30 seconds.
> 
> Final solution: Put all boxes on port 1, through SWS4, but disabled a tuner on DVR (for a total of 8 tuners now). Genie booted up, and configured fine. Channels changes back to normal.
> 
> My conclusion is a bad port 2 on the SWM16. Would you confirm?


Not to kick a dead horse, but what happens moving everything [that is working] to SWM #2?
Keep the PI on the port for power, but load all the tuners over on #2 using the same cabling.


----------



## Davenlr

Havent tried that, since there is no power available at the SWM location, and its coming in on port 1. Guess I could run an extension cord out there and plug the PI directly into it. Problem is, to get Amazon prime shipping, I need to order in the next 17 hours, and wont be able to get back over there until tomorrow.

Mom was getting pissed not being able to watch tv, so didnt want to experiment to much today.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> Havent tried that, since there is no power available at the SWM location, and its coming in on port 1. Guess I could run an extension cord out there and plug the PI directly into it. Problem is, to get Amazon prime shipping, I need to order in the next 17 hours, and wont be able to get back over there until tomorrow.
> 
> Mom was getting pissed not being able to watch tv, so didnt want to experiment to much today.


I've seen some strange things lately, so it may not be a bad second section. :shrug:


----------



## Davenlr

The odd thing is the have one line running to two rooms with a splitter in the first room, and the cable going through the wall to the second room (these are the two receivers). 
The Kitchen has its own line (with power inserter), and the living room has two lines (one antenna, one D*) with Genie.

Disconnecting one cable at a time, the second bedroom receiver went off on two different cables. That made no sense at all. Reason I suspect the multiswitch is that no matter what receiver I connect to port two, it screws up the ones on port 1 as well as port 2.

Guess Im just going to have to guess, and order another SWM16. If it turns out its not that, then Ill just resell it, and run all new cables.

For what its worth, the internet connection worked fine from port 2 to port 1, and vice versa.

I would have thought with everything running fine, plugging the genie to port 2 would work. The ONLY way the Genie will work, is if I disable a tuner on the DVR for 8 total. Its like its bridged between port 1 and 2, and double counting tuners.

Its been working fine, but today, it got up to 82, and the SWM16 was quite warm (its mounted to the ceiling of a covered patio outside, in the shade).


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> The odd thing is the have one line running to two rooms with a splitter in the first room, and the cable going through the wall to the second room (these are the two receivers).
> The Kitchen has its own line (with power inserter), and the living room has two lines (one antenna, one D*) with Genie.
> 
> Disconnecting one cable at a time, the second bedroom receiver went off on two different cables. That made no sense at all. Reason I suspect the multiswitch is that no matter what receiver I connect to port two, it screws up the ones on port 1 as well as port 2.
> 
> Guess Im just going to have to guess, and order another SWM16. If it turns out its not that, then Ill just resell it, and run all new cables.
> 
> For what its worth, the internet connection worked fine from port 2 to port 1, and vice versa.
> 
> I would have thought with everything running fine, plugging the genie to port 2 would work. The ONLY way the Genie will work, is if I disable a tuner on the DVR for 8 total. Its like its bridged between port 1 and 2, and double counting tuners.
> 
> Its been working fine, but today, it got up to 82, and the SWM16 was quite warm (its mounted to the ceiling of a covered patio outside, in the shade).


You're describing exactly some of the strange things that have come up lately, and "messing with" the connector on the PI seemed to have "resolved" the Genie on SWM #2.


----------



## Davenlr

veryoldschool said:


> You're describing exactly some of the strange things that have come up lately, and "messing with" the connector on the PI seemed to have "resolved" the Genie on SWM #2.


The power inserter in the house, or the port on the SWM16? Im not currently using the power port on the SWM16. They also had two non-directv splitters on the receivers, so I ordered two SWS-2's for that. Once I swap and flop on Saturday, Ill let you know what it turned out to be. I know its not the box, it was working perfectly at my house.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> The power inserter in the house, or the port on the SWM16? Im not currently using the power port on the SWM16. They also had two non-directv splitters on the receivers, so I ordered two SWS-2's for that. Once I swap and flop on Saturday, Ill let you know what it turned out to be. I know its not the box, it was working perfectly at my house.


I didn't get to get my hands on the other problem, "but" it seemed like there was a voltage problem running through the splitter to the SWiM-16, which caused the second part of the SWiM to have problems, much like what you posted. "Maybe" when the SWiM gets starved it can't power the second stage as well. Nothing was ever done to the second stage, and everything around the PI was, as it all started with disconnecting the PI and reconnecting it in the same place. The last step was [again] tightening the connector/coax on the PI and got the Genie on the second stage to work.


----------



## Davenlr

OK. Then that would not be the problem, as I plugged the kitchen DVR with the power inserter directly into port 1 by itself, and the other boxes into port 2 through the splitter, and still had problems (even with the kitchen receiver on the port 1 by itself) as soon as all the boxes on port 2 were powered up.

Before installing the new SWM16, I am going to move the power inserter to the dedicated input port on the SWM16, and see if I still have issues when I enable the second tuner on that DVR which I will plug into port 2 by itself.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> OK. Then that would not be the problem, as I plugged the kitchen DVR with the power inserter directly into port 1 by itself, and the other boxes into port 2 through the splitter, and still had problems (even with the kitchen receiver on the port 1 by itself) as soon as all the boxes on port 2 were powered up.
> 
> Before installing the new SWM16, I am going to move the power inserter to the dedicated input port on the SWM16, and see if I still have issues when I enable the second tuner on that DVR which I will plug into port 2 by itself.


"Chicken or egg": is it the -16 or the PI?


----------



## Davenlr

Ill know Saturday I guess, and it will only cost me $75 to find out


----------



## Davenlr

veryoldschool said:


> I've seen some strange things lately, so it may not be a bad second section. :shrug:


It was the SWM16. New one swapped in, and it worked perfectly. Guess I have an SWM8 now


----------



## studechip

Can a swm8 be connected with only two cables? IOW, can a swm8 switch be used with an old two output lnb?


----------



## veryoldschool

studechip said:


> Can a swm8 be connected with only two cables? IOW, can a swm8 switch be used with an old two output lnb?


"Can?" yes, to just the 13 & 18 volt inputs.
"Why" you would want to do this, might be a question.


----------



## studechip

veryoldschool said:


> "Can?" yes, to just the 13 & 18 volt inputs.
> "Why" you would want to do this, might be a question.


You might want to use an H25 in an rv where you have an old lnb.


----------



## carl6

studechip said:


> Can a swm8 be connected with only two cables? IOW, can a swm8 switch be used with an old two output lnb?


Yes, but you will only get the 101 satellite, no HD.

Edited to strike through: And, of course, you still have to use an SWM capable receiver.


----------



## acostapimps

I have a question VOS, I currently have 4 receivers HR44-700,HR24-200,H24-200 and D12-700 all connected on SWM 16 Multiswitch with Slimline 5 Dish, but what I'm not so sure about is the green label splitter they used which is a 8-way that's mounted at the back of the house next to the SWM 16, is it better to use a 4-way instead or is the 8-way fine?, Another poster said that is better to use the lower 4-way splitter If you need any more info I will gladly provide, although as from what I see it is currently using 5 ports including one on the side with 3 terminator caps so I don't see a benefit into using a 4-way with not enough connection.


----------



## veryoldschool

acostapimps said:


> I have a question VOS, I currently have 4 receivers HR44-700,HR24-200,H24-200 and D12-700 all connected on SWM 16 Multiswitch with Slimline 5 Dish, but what I'm not so sure about is the green label splitter they used which is a 8-way that's mounted at the back of the house next to the SWM 16, is it better to use a 4-way instead or is the 8-way fine?, Another poster said that is better to use the lower 4-way splitter If you need any more info I will gladly provide, although as from what I see it is currently using 5 ports including one on the side with 3 terminator caps so I don't see a benefit into using a 4-way with not enough connection.


Splitter + coax loss have to be looked at together.
If you have long coax runs, an 8-way can be a problem.
If it's working now [not too much loss], there most likely will be no benefit to changing to a 4-way.


----------



## Carl Newman

Had a brief power outage during a storm Wednesday. Our HR21-100 & HR24-500 (both running 0x6d8) rebooted afterwards, as expected. However, after completing reboot, neither set would display any HD channel from the satellite (HD thru the AM-21 is normal). Two calls to D* resulted in 2nd CSR deciding it was an alignment issue (though my ss didn't indicate that) and a scheduled service call (next Tuesday!).
Lowest signal strength on 99c/101 is one 88 & one 85, rest are 91 - 100; on 103c (c&b) all are 95s (didn't check spots - no locals), so don't think alignment is the problem. Vanilla set-up; non-SWM (dual RG6 direct from LNB to each set - only break is ground block & wall plug.)
HR-21 attached to a Panasonic Plasma, HR-24 to a Visio LED. Both HRs set to Native - On, Original Format. 16:9, HR-21 res set only 720, HR-24 res set to 720, 1080i, 1080p. Both TVs set to "normal". 
Any suggestions as to what to try while waiting with baited breath for Tech? Or (my guess) did my LNB partially die and I'm SOL?


----------



## veryoldschool

Carl Newman said:


> Had a brief power outage during a storm Wednesday. Our HR21-100 & HR24-500 (both running 0x6d8) rebooted afterwards, as expected. However, after completing reboot, neither set would display any HD channel from the satellite (HD thru the AM-21 is normal). Two calls to D* resulted in 2nd CSR deciding it was an alignment issue (though my ss didn't indicate that) and a scheduled service call (next Tuesday!).
> Lowest signal strength on 99c/101 is one 88 & one 85, rest are 91 - 100; on 103c (c& B) all are 95s (didn't check spots - no locals), so don't think alignment is the problem. Vanilla set-up; non-SWM (dual RG6 direct from LNB to each set - only break is ground block & wall plug.)
> HR-21 attached to a Panasonic Plasma, HR-24 to a Visio LED. Both HRs set to Native - On, Original Format. 16:9, HR-21 res set only 720, HR-24 res set to 720, 1080i, 1080p. Both TVs set to "normal".
> Any suggestions as to what to try while waiting with baited breath for Tech? Or (my guess) did my LNB partially die and I'm SOL?


Since this was a "brief" power outage, I'd pull the power cord on one and give it some time before plugging it back in.
It might take 10 min or longer without power.


----------



## Carl Newman

Thanks, VOS. That did it (although since you said "longer" I waited 20), at least on the HR-24. Have to wait until the wife's show is over to do hers!

And thanks for all the insight and knowledge I've gained over the years from reading your posts. Much appreciated!

Carl


----------



## John Walls

VOS, I have 7 DVR's,, a Zimwell 6x16, & a Slimline 5, all are hard wired to an Ethernet switch, I have Whole Home grandfathered from beta install. I have the Protection Plan.

My oldest DVR is an HR20. With the "New Every Two" DirecTV will replace the HR 20 with a Genie..

What will the installer need to do/install to get the Genie & 6 DVR's to work with Whole Home?

Sincerely, John


----------



## veryoldschool

John Walls said:


> VOS, I have 7 DVR's,, a Zimwell 6x16, & a Slimline 5, all are hard wired to an Ethernet switch, I have Whole Home grandfathered from beta install. I have the Protection Plan.
> 
> My oldest DVR is an HR20. With the "New Every Two" DirecTV will replace the HR 20 with a Genie..
> 
> What will the installer need to do/install to get the Genie & 6 DVR's to work with Whole Home?
> 
> Sincerely, John


If you're going to keep all and not shift a few to the mini Genie clients:


----------



## MadMac

Referred over here by another user....

SO complained of issues with the H21-200 in her sewing room. Just had a look, initially came up with "no guide data for the past 48 hours". Ran diagnostics and got the error code 49-181 with the following text: "Primary Tuner Connection Problem. No SWM channels are available. The receiver is unable to register tuners for Live TV or Recordings because there are too many receivers connected to the coax network" plus the usual blurb about calling and quoting the above code. This box is presently working but channel change is very slow - she complained this morning that it wouldn't go away from Channel 2. Setup is a Slimline 5 with non-SWM LNB connected to an SWM-16 with an 8-way splitter on each output, 5 tuners on each splitter. Son mentioned some issues on his DVR (same splitter) and we've been seeing "freezing" on another DVR's recordings on that splitter tonight (box replaced about a month ago for a different issue). The H21-200 with the initial problem sees playlists from all three DVRs on the system. Swapped with another H21-200, got error code 49-826 with same text as the previous error. No sign of any issues on any tuner off the other splitter. Bad splitter?


----------



## veryoldschool

MadMac said:


> Referred over here by another user....
> 
> SO complained of issues with the H21-200 in her sewing room. Just had a look, initially came up with "no guide data for the past 48 hours". Ran diagnostics and got the error code 49-181 with the following text: "Primary Tuner Connection Problem. No SWM channels are available. The receiver is unable to register tuners for Live TV or Recordings because there are too many receivers connected to the coax network" plus the usual blurb about calling and quoting the above code. This box is presently working but channel change is very slow - she complained this morning that it wouldn't go away from Channel 2. Setup is a Slimline 5 with non-SWM LNB connected to an SWM-16 with an 8-way splitter on each output, 5 tuners on each splitter. Son mentioned some issues on his DVR (same splitter) and we've been seeing "freezing" on another DVR's recordings on that splitter tonight (box replaced about a month ago for a different issue). The H21-200 with the initial problem sees playlists from all three DVRs on the system. Swapped with another H21-200, got error code 49-826 with same text as the previous error. No sign of any issues on any tuner off the other splitter. Bad splitter?


Splitters rarely "go bad".
Are there any open or unused ports on this 8-way splitter?


----------



## MadMac

All unused ports have terminators.


----------



## MadMac

Splitters rarely "go bad".


Wholeheartedly agree - its a pretty dumb piece of equipment. However, I'm not seeing what else it could be, unless its one output of the SWM-16 - it was rather warm at 10 PM last night, but I think they tend to "cook" a little!


----------



## dennisj00

Swap the outputs of the 16.


----------



## MadMac

Swap the outputs of the 16.


Might try that this evening.


----------



## tdixon7559

VOS, a question please. I currently have a HR34 with 1-c31, 1-c41, and 3 h25's along with a CCK. I want to switch out the HR34 for a HR44 and self install it. Do I still need the CCK or can I disconnect it and use the wireless in the HR44? I have tried to research this so I apoligize if I have missed the answer somewhere. Also, any other advise before I attempt this? Thank you


----------



## veryoldschool

tdixon7559 said:


> VOS, a question please. I currently have a HR34 with 1-c31, 1-c41, and 3 h25's along with a CCK. I want to switch out the HR34 for a HR44 and self install it. Do I still need the CCK or can I disconnect it and use the wireless in the HR44? I have tried to research this so I apoligize if I have missed the answer somewhere. Also, any other advise before I attempt this? Thank you


You may want to keep the CCK, but of course you can use the 44 WiFi instead.
I've had some issues with my 44's WiFi feeding other DVRs for OnDemand, so I'm using a CCK.
YMMV


----------



## veryoldschool

dennisj00 said:


> Swap the outputs of the 16.





MadMac said:


> Might try that this evening.


Swapping was going to be a suggestion.
Another would beto power down the SWiM-16 & receivers and reboot everything [SWiM first].


----------



## mtsz52784

Hey VOS, quick question (hopefully)... I have a summer home with no internet, am I able to setup whole home DVR with just a router and no internet supplied to it? Or is there a different way? Thanks Matt


----------



## veryoldschool

mtsz52784 said:


> Hey VOS, quick question (hopefully)... I have a summer home with no internet, am I able to setup whole home DVR with just a router and no internet supplied to it? Or is there a different way? Thanks Matt


You don't even need a router.


----------



## tdixon7559

veryoldschool said:


> You may want to keep the CCK, but of course you can use the 44 WiFi instead.
> I've had some issues with my 44's WiFi feeding other DVRs for OnDemand, so I'm using a CCK.
> YMMV


Thank you!!


----------



## MadMac

Brief note - appears to be heat-related. Further investigations to follow.....


----------



## MadMac

Brief note - appears to be heat-related. Further investigations to follow.....


Cancel that theory. 

Yesterday: was having issues on the opposite splitter (intermittent 771). Directed a fan at the SWM-16, got it to a viewable state. By 9 PM, all was well. At 4:50 AM today, with the outside temperature 58, intermittent 771 on my main TV (off the side with the initial problem). I'm going to try changing the power inserter this evening, then swap in an SWM-8 I have to see if that does anything. I hate intermittents


----------



## MadMac

Question: If I do put the SWM-8 in, could it still have 10 tuners connected so long as no more than 8 are operating? If I have to do that, I'd like to do so with a minimum of disruption to the existing setup. My thought was to split the one output of the SWM-8 between the two 8-way splitters.


----------



## dennisj00

Nope, the first 8 wins - they all operate. . . why don't you temporarily leave off 1 dvr or set 2 of them to 1 tuner.


----------



## MadMac

dennisj00 said:


> Nope, the first 8 wins - they all operate. . . why don't you temporarily leave off 1 dvr or set 2 of them to 1 tuner.


Thanks for the advice.

Having re-examined this tonight, I'm back to heat. Intermittent 771s all over, which disappeared within 5 minutes of getting fans blowing on the SWM-16. All working normally as I type. I'm going to get it out of the attic - plans are being formulated :evilgrin:


----------



## trh

MadMac said:


> Cancel that theory.
> 
> Yesterday: was having issues on the opposite splitter (intermittent 771). Directed a fan at the SWM-16, got it to a viewable state. By 9 PM, all was well. At 4:50 AM today, with the outside temperature 58, intermittent 771 on my main TV (off the side with the initial problem). I'm going to try changing the power inserter this evening, then swap in an SWM-8 I have to see if that does anything. I hate intermittents





MadMac said:


> Having re-examined this tonight, I'm back to heat. Intermittent 771s all over, which disappeared within 5 minutes of getting fans blowing on the SWM-16. All working normally as I type. I'm going to get it out of the attic - plans are being formulated :evilgrin:


You got everything working early evening by putting a fan on the SWM16, but then at 5AM with the outside temp 58, the problem was back. Any idea what the temp was in your attic at 9PM and 5AM?


----------



## MadMac

trh said:


> You got everything working early evening by putting a fan on the SWM16, but then at 5AM with the outside temp 58, the problem was back. Any idea what the temp was in your attic at 9PM and 5AM?


No idea - hot at 9 PM, but not unbearably so. 5 AM - didn't go up there. Last night, it took two hours of fan to get total normality. Tonight - a few minutes. Difference was that today, the AC was on in the house. Yesterday, it wasn't. Thinking is that it got the ambient temperature down to where a few minutes of fan got things back to normal. My intention is to get the SWM-16 down into the house, albeit in a cupboard, and see how that goes. On that topic - is there a limit as to how far the power inserter can be from the SWM-16? I'd be looking at 20-25' if I leave it where it is.


----------



## trh

Your AC shouldn't make a noticeable difference in the attic temp. Especially at 5am when your outside temp was 58. Unless you have an air conditioned attic. 

I don't know about distances between SWM and PI, but my SWM is on the outside a good 50' from the PI and I haven't had any issues in two years.


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## mtsz52784

So just connecting the ethernet ports together will connect the 2 boxes for whole home dvr? 

Sent from my LG-E980 using DBSTalk mobile app


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## Bill Broderick

mtsz52784 said:


> So just connecting the ethernet ports together will connect the 2 boxes for whole home dvr?


You'll still need to convince DirecTV to allow you to setup Whole Home in unsupported mode. See this thread for directions on how to do that.


----------



## MadMac

Your AC shouldn't make a noticeable difference in the attic temp. Especially at 5am when your outside temp was 58. Unless you have an air conditioned attic. 

I don't know about distances between SWM and PI, but my SWM is on the outside a good 50' from the PI and I haven't had any issues in two years.


Thanks for the info re the PI distance. Plan is to leave that where it is, get the SWM moved (no outlet where it's going) and tackle moving the PI separately at a later date. 

The whole thing about yesterday morning is still a bit puzzling. Like you say, the attic doesn't have AC


----------



## MadMac

Just an update. Moved SWM-16 out of attic yesterday, still having intermittent issues. Next step is to throw in an SWM-8 temporarily. I'm thinking there can't be much else causing an issue.


----------



## Supramom2000

MadMac - I have the same issues and my SWiM 16 is on the second story, outside, facing south where it gets full 105 degree sun for most of the day. I never had these issues until about 3 months ago and it was not hot then.

Everyone's advice to me has been either a bad coax at my receiver or at my PI. 

Just food for thought.


----------



## MadMac

Supramom2000 said:


> MadMac - I have the same issues and my SWiM 16 is on the second story, outside, facing south where it gets full 105 degree sun for most of the day. I never had these issues until about 3 months ago and it was not hot then.


Mine was in the attic - I started to notice the odd glitch a few weeks back, getting progressively worse. As I've mentioned, very random in terms of where and when it would appear - it could be perfectly OK on one TV and unwatchable on another at the same time, but appeared initially to be heat-related. I moved it out of there yesterday and the issues were back today. As I mentioned, I swapped in an SWM-8 temporarily, service is OK right now. I think what happened is that my attic fan has stopped working and the heat has damaged the SWM.


----------



## KSbugeater

VOS, you helped me about a year ago with whole home problems. I think I've got a bad link, but I can't rule out a bad LNB (8 years old). How do you get to the diagnostic that shows the signal strength on all legs of the network from the HR24?


----------



## Jacob Braun

KSbugeater said:


> VOS, you helped me about a year ago with whole home problems. I think I've got a bad link, but I can't rule out a bad LNB (8 years old). How do you get to the diagnostic that shows the signal strength on all legs of the network from the HR24?


Attributed to vos from here



veryoldschool said:


> On the front panel, you need to press both the guide and > buttons. It may take a few tries to see the menu.


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## KSbugeater

here are my phy rate mesh numbers. On the info screen it said dropped session count is 5.


----------



## inkahauts

It looks like those all say 250 or abut that so those are fine.

What exactly do you mean when you say you have a bad link you think? What issue are you having?


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## KSbugeater

1. Reception problems on certain receivers on certain channels.
2. Some of the receivers drop off the network inexplicably.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


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## inkahauts

Ok. Have you checked your transponder signal strengths? Could you post them for all transponders off of at least one box and then see if you have the same signals or about the same on others? There's a few that should be low but most should be high. Could have a bad cable somewhere. 

Also is it random and changes from one box to another or is it usually the same boxes having random issues and dropping off? Looking for a pattern of certain boxes having issues and certain ones not.


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## inkahauts

Also do you know exactly how it's all wired? Can you explain that in detail and denote which of the units are having which issues.


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## eileen22

I'm not sure if this is an appropriate place to pose this question, but I've gotten help from VOS in the past, so I thought I'd start here. I'm in the dreaded Philly market, which means that as a DirecTV customer we are blacked out from receiving the Philly Comcast sports channels, even if we have the D* sports subscriptions. It is a ridiculous situation, but since it's been going on for years, I have given up hope that it will ever be resolved.

Prior to the move to digital signals a few years back, we subscribed to basic cable from Comcast, and we had splitters behind each D* receiver that somehow split the signal so we could see either D* or basic Comcast. I don't remember how this worked, maybe we just turned off the D* box if we wanted to view cable, and used the TV remote. Anyway, the migration to digital signals made this impossible without adding coax lines and Comcast boxes, at least from my limited understanding, so we cancelled Comcast. This was before SWM.

My son has become a huge Flyers fan, and I would like to see if there is a way to keep our current D* setup, and also add the Comcast cable service that would enable him to see the Flyers games on their RSN's. I haven't yet looked into the cost, but I first wanted to see how and if this is possible with our setup.

We have SWM with Whole Home. Each TV location has 2 coax lines running to it, with only one coax being used currently for the D* boxes. Receivers are: 
1 HR34
3 C31 clients
1 HR20
2 R16

Depending on cost, I'd like to add cable service to the HR34 and 2 of the C31's. 

Is this doable, and if so, what would the setup be and equipment needed? How would we switch between D* and cable at the TV's? Thanks.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


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## The Merg

You will need a separate coax cable for your Comcast boxes. You will not be able to run the cable signal and satellite signal over the same coax.

- Merg


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## veryoldschool

eileen22 said:


> My son has become a huge Flyers fan, and I would like to see if there is a way to keep our current D* setup, and also add the Comcast cable service that would enable him to see the Flyers games on their RSN's. I haven't yet looked into the cost, but I first wanted to see how and if this is possible with our setup.
> 
> We have SWM with Whole Home. Each TV location has 2 coax lines running to it, with only one coax being used currently for the D* boxes. Receivers are:
> 1 HR34
> 3 C31 clients
> 1 HR20
> 2 R16
> 
> Depending on cost, I'd like to add cable service to the HR34 and 2 of the C31's.
> 
> Is this doable, and if so, what would the setup be and equipment needed? How would we switch between D* and cable at the TV's? Thanks.


As Merg posted, you need to run more coax, if you don't have any unused coax after changing to SWiM.

Using the SWiM would have helped over your legacy system, but that gets shot down with the connected home networking and the 3 genie clients.


----------



## eileen22

As Merg posted, you need to run more coax, if you don't have any unused coax after changing to SWiM.

Using the SWiM would have helped over your legacy system, but that gets shot down with the connected home networking and the 3 genie clients.


Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm not following you. I do have one unused coax at every location except for at one of the genie clients. The other locations used to use both coax lines for the DVRs before I switched to SWiM. Now those coax lines are not in use, but are still there. So can't I use those free coax lines for cable at the locations where they exist? And what does the connected home network have to do with it? Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


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## The Merg

Yes, you can use the unused coax cables that you have at each receiver for you cable boxes. You just can't diplex the cable signal onto the satellite cables. With SWM and MRV, the frequencies being used on the coax for the DirecTV receivers would be in conflict with OTA signals and cable signals.

- Merg


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## veryoldschool

eileen22 said:


> Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm not following you. I do have one unused coax at every location except for at one of the genie clients. The other locations used to use both coax lines for the DVRs before I switched to SWiM. Now those coax lines are not in use, but are still there. So can't I use those free coax lines for cable at the locations where they exist? And what does the connected home network have to do with it? Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


these unused coax can be used for cable.
Without whole home, the frequencies that cable uses are free/open on a SWiM system, so cable could be inserted onto the SWiM coax, but the DECA/whole home is in this band, so it doesn't work and you'll need to use "the other" coax.


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## peds48

eileen22 said:


> Is this doable, and if so, what would the setup be and equipment needed? How would we switch between D* and cable at the TV's? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


and unless you have a cable ready TV, you would need cable boxes as Merg and VOS mentioned. this would connect the same way as the DirecTV boxes. preferable using HDMI cables.


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## inkahauts

Do you live in a FIOS area? I'd get FIOS over coma cast too if you have the option. Mt be a lot cheaper if you bundle their Internet service as well, I know several people on here have basic FIOS with a DVR and Internet and phone and its cheaper than just Internet by itself.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## eileen22

Do you live in a FIOS area? I'd get FIOS over coma cast too if you have the option. Mt be a lot cheaper if you bundle their Internet service as well, I know several people on here have basic FIOS with a DVR and Internet and phone and its cheaper than just Internet by itself.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app
Yes, we do have FIOS available here, I didn't even think of that. I was actually thinking about switching our Comcast internet to FIOS anyway, with the only drawback being that I'd have to lose my comcast.net email address that I've had forever. Thanks for the suggestion, I will have to take that into consideration.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


----------



## inkahauts

Yes, we do have FIOS available here, I didn't even think of that. I was actually thinking about switching our Comcast internet to FIOS anyway, with the only drawback being that I'd have to lose my comcast.net email address that I've had forever. Thanks for the suggestion, I will have to take that into consideration.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app


Yeah I don't use email addresses connected to my ISP anymore because of that right there.

Let us know what you do. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


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## Phil17108

VOS. I had to rest the power inserter for a SWiM 8 to get internet service the other day, then got to thinking about it. The set up has the swim 8 with one side into a new hr44 and the other side in to a green label 4 way. The 4 way goes to a c41 client & a hr24 with the 3rd out put to a CCK with the power inserter on the power pass. The CCK uses a cat5e to a switch and the switch uses a cat5e to the router. What I wounded about was the whole home was working and the hr24 still was getting out. This set up has been in use other then the 44 for almost 2 years, can't think of any reason that a rest on the power inserter could or would reestablish internet connection, other then maybe the swim 8 my have an issue. Thanks


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## veryoldschool

Phil17108 said:


> VOS. I had to rest the power inserter for a SWiM 8 to get internet service the other day, then got to thinking about it. The set up has the swim 8 with one side into a new hr44 and the other side in to a green label 4 way. The 4 way goes to a c41 client & a hr24 with the 3rd out put to a CCK with the power inserter on the power pass. The CCK uses a cat5e to a switch and the switch uses a cat5e to the router. What I wounded about was the whole home was working and the hr24 still was getting out. This set up has been in use other then the 44 for almost 2 years, can't think of any reason that a rest on the power inserter could or would reestablish internet connection, other then maybe the swim 8 my have an issue. Thanks


Not quite sure what you're saying/asking.
A SWM8 doesn't have "sides" like a SWiM-16, but as it has an internal 2-way splitter, there are two outputs.
I think I'd have gone with the 44, 24, & CCK all connected to the 4-way and reconnected the termination back on SWM #2.
The DECA loss should be less this way.


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## Mike__P

Using DECA to expand coax network question:

I currently have a whole home connected system with one hr-24 dvr and one h24 box. Our internet comes into the bedroom where there is a CCK and the h24. The family room on the other side of the house has the hr24 dvr. We are able to watch playlist items in the bedroom without issue.

Wireless connectivity is really sketchy on the family room side of the house and I would like to use an additional deca or cck to bring the network over the coax to a switch for better streaming.

In the family room I have a green label swm-4 connected to a Power Inserter and both receivers.

How do I achieve the goal of utilizing the existing whole home network over coax? I just ordered another cck of ebay that will be here next week, but I also have an unused white deca1 without power supply.

First scenario-White deca1: 

If I try to use the white deca1 stand alone, will I need a power suply or can it get power of the swm-4? I am guessing it needs it's own power.
Assuming then I need and can get a power inserter; can I just conenct the "towards LNB" leg to the swm-4 and then ethernet to my switch?

Second scenario wired CCK:

Would this be a simple as connecting the cck to the existing swm-4 and ethernet to my switch?

Thanks for your insight!


----------



## DaveC56

VOS: I have ordered a Genie (HMC) which will be installed on October 10th. I want to oversee the installation and have a few questions to ask you about the installation. My current configuration is the following: Slimline AU9-SL3 Three LNB satellite Dish with four wires into a Zinwell16 Multiswith which connects to five DVRs (two HR23s, two HR21s and R15-300 SD DVR). Each DVR has two RG6 coax cables connecting to the Zinwell16 switch. The new Genie unit will replace the R15, so we’ll have a total of 13 tuners (Genie + two HR23s + two HR21s). Each HD DVR (including the Genie will have a hard wire Internet connection as well. The DirecTV CSR indicated that they would be including a Cinema Connection Kit (wireless kit) along with the Genie. Since I’ll have a wired Fast Ethernet connection at each HD DVR location & at the Genie, can I keep the Cinema Connection Kit for future Genie Mini installation at a new location within my house, or will the installer not leave the Wireless kit with me?

As I understand the new configuration will include a SWM16 switch. Since the power inserted connects directly into the SWM16 unit, is there a minimum distance on the RG6 coax cable to power the SWM16 or does it not matter since it’s a direct connection to power the SWM16? On the SWM16, the SWM1 port will connect to the Genie directly and the SWM2 port will be connected to a 1x4 SWM splitter for connections to the other four HD DVRs. Is this the wiring configuration I should expect when the installer comes?

When the installation is complete, the HD DVRs need to be re-configured for SWM and rebooted. Do they (the HD DVRs) need to be powered off by pulling the plug or just an RBR to perform a Repeat Satellite Setup? With this new configuration, will I see any improved signal strength with a SWM configuration vice the Zinwell16 switch?

I have one last remote control question. In my Home Theater A/V Rack, I’ll have the Genie plus an HR21. Can the new RC71 control multiple DVRs or do I need to use the RC65 in the IR mode to control the Genie plus HR21?

Please feel to provide any other recommendations or comments. Thanks again for you valuable contribution to this forum.

Dave C.


----------



## veryoldschool

Mike__P said:


> Using DECA to expand coax network question:
> 
> I currently have a whole home connected system with one hr-24 dvr and one h24 box. Our internet comes into the bedroom where there is a CCK and the h24. The family room on the other side of the house has the hr24 dvr. We are able to watch playlist items in the bedroom without issue.
> 
> Wireless connectivity is really sketchy on the family room side of the house and I would like to use an additional deca or cck to bring the network over the coax to a switch for better streaming.
> 
> In the family room I have a green label swm-4 connected to a Power Inserter and both receivers.
> 
> How do I achieve the goal of utilizing the existing whole home network over coax? I just ordered another cck of ebay that will be here next week, but I also have an unused white deca1 without power supply.
> 
> First scenario-White deca1:
> 
> If I try to use the white deca1 stand alone, will I need a power suply or can it get power of the swm-4? I am guessing it needs it's own power.
> Assuming then I need and can get a power inserter; can I just conenct the "towards LNB" leg to the swm-4 and then ethernet to my switch?
> 
> Second scenario wired CCK:
> 
> Would this be a simple as connecting the cck to the existing swm-4 and ethernet to my switch?
> 
> Thanks for your insight!


While not supported, adding a CCK seems the easiest for what you want.


----------



## Mike__P

veryoldschool said:


> While not supported, adding a CCK seems the easiest for what you want.


Thanks, I'll give it a go. So I can connect it to a free port on the swm-4? I don't need another split?


----------



## veryoldschool

DaveC56 said:


> VOS: I have ordered a Genie (HMC) which will be installed on October 10th. I want to oversee the installation and have a few questions to ask you about the installation. My current configuration is the following: Slimline AU9-SL3 Three LNB satellite Dish with four wires into a Zinwell16 Multiswith which connects to five DVRs (two HR23s, two HR21s and R15-300 SD DVR). Each DVR has two RG6 coax cables connecting to the Zinwell16 switch. The new Genie unit will replace the R15, so we'll have a total of 13 tuners (Genie + two HR23s + two HR21s). Each HD DVR (including the Genie will have a hard wire Internet connection as well. The DirecTV CSR indicated that they would be including a Cinema Connection Kit (wireless kit) along with the Genie. Since I'll have a wired Fast Ethernet connection at each HD DVR location & at the Genie, can I keep the Cinema Connection Kit for future Genie Mini installation at a new location within my house, or will the installer not leave the Wireless kit with me?
> 
> As I understand the new configuration will include a SWM16 switch. Since the power inserted connects directly into the SWM16 unit, is there a minimum distance on the RG6 coax cable to power the SWM16 or does it not matter since it's a direct connection to power the SWM16? On the SWM16, the SWM1 port will connect to the Genie directly and the SWM2 port will be connected to a 1x4 SWM splitter for connections to the other four HD DVRs. Is this the wiring configuration I should expect when the installer comes?
> 
> When the installation is complete, the HD DVRs need to be re-configured for SWM and rebooted. Do they (the HD DVRs) need to be powered off by pulling the plug or just an RBR to perform a Repeat Satellite Setup? With this new configuration, will I see any improved signal strength with a SWM configuration vice the Zinwell16 switch?
> I have one last remote control question. In my Home Theater A/V Rack, I'll have the Genie plus an HR21. Can the new RC71 control multiple DVRs or do I need to use the RC65 in the IR mode to control the Genie plus HR21?
> 
> Please feel to provide any other recommendations or comments. Thanks again for you valuable contribution to this forum.
> 
> Dave C.


I can't say what the installer would leave, but I would suggest changing over from your ethernet to coax [DECA] networking at this time. The installer will need to add DECAs to the 21s & 23s and let him install the CCK. He/she will get paid [more] for doing this and you'll have a supported network. There is a thread here where someone had better performance with DECA over their ethernet.
After the installer leaves, if you feel you must have ethernet, you can always reconfigure and you'll have the parts should you want to go back.
The Genie can run tests of the coax network that can't be done with ethernet.
Powering the SWiM-16 with the PWR connector doesn't have a min length of coax.

What splitters will be used will vary. An 8-way on each output is very common.
It really only make a difference if you have very long coax runs to the receivers.
If each receiver passes the IV test before the installer leaves, you're good.
The SWiM system is slightly different than your legacy WB616 since the SWiM has an AGC that the legacy doesn't.
This means you may not see "improved signal strength" on a clear day, but should on rainy days.
The RC71 doesn't control more than one receiver like the RC65 does.


----------



## veryoldschool

Mike__P said:


> Thanks, I'll give it a go. So I can connect it to a free port on the swm-4? I don't need another split?


Any unused port is fine.


----------



## DaveC56

veryoldschool said:


> I can't say what the installer would leave, but I would suggest changing over from your ethernet to coax [DECA] networking at this time. The installer will need to add DECAs to the 21s & 23s and let him install the CCK. He/she will get paid [more] for doing this and you'll have a supported network. There is a thread here where someone had better performance with DECA over their ethernet.
> After the installer leaves, if you feel you must have ethernet, you can always reconfigure and you'll have the parts should you want to go back.
> The Genie can run tests of the coax network that can't be done with ethernet.
> Powering the SWiM-16 with the PWR connector doesn't have a min length of coax.
> 
> What splitters will be used will vary. An 8-way on each output is very common.
> It really only make a difference if you have very long coax runs to the receivers.
> If each receiver passes the IV test before the installer leaves, you're good.
> The SWiM system is slightly different than your legacy WB616 since the SWiM has an AGC that the legacy doesn't.
> This means you may not see "improved signal strength" on a clear day, but should on rainy days.
> The RC71 doesn't control more than one receiver like the RC65 does.


Thanks for your feedback. Can you elaborate on the tests the Genie performs on the coax vice ethernet network?, any thing specific to the "IV Test" other than what I think it means literally?

Is AGC (automatic gain control)??

Many thanks,
Dave


----------



## veryoldschool

DaveC56 said:


> Thanks for your feedback. Can you elaborate on the tests the Genie performs on the coax vice ethernet network?, any thing specific to the "IV Test" other than what I think it means literally?
> 
> Is AGC (automatic gain control)??
> 
> Many thanks,
> Dave


Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.
There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.
AGC is automatic gain control
The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.
Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,


----------



## DaveC56

veryoldschool said:


> Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.
> There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.
> AGC is automatic gain control
> The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.
> Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,


Again, many thanks for your DirecTV expertise and answering my questions.

Dave


----------



## jpx5

Recently converted from ethernet to deca/swim and added an hr34-700. since the install the hr34 and an hr24-500 intermittanly disconnect and reconnect. I changed the ip address's to be static however the problem continues. Any thoughts would be welcome.


----------



## DaveC56

DaveC56 said:


> Thanks for your feedback. Can you elaborate on the tests the Genie performs on the coax vice ethernet network?, any thing specific to the "IV Test" other than what I think it means literally?
> 
> Is AGC (automatic gain control)??
> 
> Many thanks,
> Dave





veryoldschool said:


> Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.
> There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.
> AGC is automatic gain control
> The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.
> Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,


VOS: After reading your comments on DECA and educating myself on DECA versus fast ethernet networks, I'm still sitting on the fence which way is best. In my home, we have FE (CAT 5e) wired to all DirecTV DVR locations. We have very little LAN (intra-net) traffic on our home network since my wife and I are "empty nesters" and recently retired. Are both DECA and FE supported by DirecTV or only DECA? On our current setup, 4 HD DVRs, we do have MRV turned on and don't have any performance issues access/playing/streaming playlists from other HD DVR locations with our home. It's only slow when using the 30 second skip. We are looking forward to the Genie install next Thursday, and will continue to use the other 4 HD DVRs. Any final thoughts?

Thanks,
Dave C.


----------



## veryoldschool

DaveC56 said:


> VOS: After reading your comments on DECA and educating myself on DECA versus fast ethernet networks, I'm still sitting on the fence which way is best. In my home, we have FE (CAT 5e) wired to all DirecTV DVR locations. We have very little LAN (intra-net) traffic on our home network since my wife and I are "empty nesters" and recently retired. Are both DECA and FE supported by DirecTV or only DECA? On our current setup, 4 HD DVRs, we do have MRV turned on and don't have any performance issues access/playing/streaming playlists from other HD DVR locations with our home. It's only slow when using the 30 second skip. We are looking forward to the Genie install next Thursday, and will continue to use the other 4 HD DVRs. Any final thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave C.


Only DECA [coax networking] is supported by DirecTV.
If you're happy with etherent, you can continue to used it.
Should you have a problem, being unsupported, it'll be up to you to find a resolution.
Ethernet will be no better than DECA, and DECA may just come down to being the right tool for the job, and the support to keep it working.
I started with etherent before there was DECA and had cables running all over.
I moved to DECA "years ago" and haven't looked back.
I've moved a couple of times and haven't needed to use ethernet so it's nice to not have as many cables running around.

I'd still suggest having DECA installed and give it a try.
Should you want to go back to etherent, you can, and simply box up the DECA hardware for a time when you might want to use it.


----------



## veryoldschool

jpx5 said:


> Recently converted from ethernet to deca/swim and added an hr34-700. since the install the hr34 and an hr24-500 intermittanly disconnect and reconnect. I changed the ip address's to be static however the problem continues. Any thoughts would be welcome.


It would help to get more information:
How do you connect to the router?
Are you static IPs outside the DHCP reservation table?


----------



## DaveC56

veryoldschool said:


> Only DECA [coax networking] is supported by DirecTV.
> If you're happy with etherent, you can continue to used it.
> Should you have a problem, being unsupported, it'll be up to you to find a resolution.
> Ethernet will be no better than DECA, and DECA may just come down to being the right tool for the job, and the support to keep it working.
> I started with etherent before there was DECA and had cables running all over.
> I moved to DECA "years ago" and haven't looked back.
> I've moved a couple of times and haven't needed to use ethernet so it's nice to not have as many cables running around.
> 
> I'd still suggest having DECA installed and give it a try.
> Should you want to go back to etherent, you can, and simply box up the DECA hardware for a time when you might want to use it.


OK. Again, I really appreciate your insight and advice. I have a lot of boxes in my A/V rack and although the HR34/HR44 has DECA built in, my other HD DVRs (two HR21s and two HR23s) do not. I was leaning towards FE for the network, and with your input I'm considering DECA. I have a followup question ... if I use DECA, can I still have the FE Cat 5e cables connected to the Genie and all HR DVRs even though not utilized in case I want to revert to FE vice DECA? Since I currently don't have DECA, I wasn't sure how the system setup occurs.

When the Genie is installed next week, I'll begin a new two year commitment with DirecTV. With my older HR21 & HR23s, am I eligible for HR24 HD DVR equipment upgrades?

Dave


----------



## veryoldschool

DaveC56 said:


> OK. Again, I really appreciate your insight and advice. I have a lot of boxes in my A/V rack and although the HR34/HR44 has DECA built in, my other HD DVRs (two HR21s and two HR23s) do not. I was leaning towards FE for the network, and with your input I'm considering DECA. I have a followup question ... if I use DECA, can I still have the FE Cat 5e cables connected to the Genie and all HR DVRs even though not utilized in case I want to revert to FE vice DECA? Since I currently don't have DECA, I wasn't sure how the system setup occurs.
> 
> When the Genie is installed next week, I'll begin a new two year commitment with DirecTV. With my older HR21 & HR23s, am I eligible for HR24 HD DVR equipment upgrades?
> 
> Dave


You can't have both coax networking and ethernet connected at the same time.
While the HR21/23 do have two ethernet ports, there is a primary and secondary, which means they aren't the same and you can have problems using the secondary. [been there and have had them].
I saw this today and it might be worth a read: http://forums.solidsignal.com/content.php/2306-IT-S-A-MYTH-Is-Gigabit-Ethernet-better-for-DIRECTV-than-Coax-Networking

You could connect ethernet to the Genie and still use the DECA, but using a CCK might be a better choice when you have other receivers as when the Genie reboots, if you're using it to connect to your home network, this connection is lost during the rebooting.

As for your eligibility for upgrades :shrug: You'll need to check with DirecTV.


----------



## DaveC56

veryoldschool said:


> You can't have both coax networking and ethernet connected at the same time.
> While the HR21/23 do have two ethernet ports, there is a primary and secondary, which means they aren't the same and you can have problems using the secondary. [been there and have had them].
> I saw this today and it might be worth a read: http://forums.solidsignal.com/content.php/2306-IT-S-A-MYTH-Is-Gigabit-Ethernet-better-for-DIRECTV-than-Coax-Networking
> 
> You could connect ethernet to the Genie and still use the DECA, but using a CCK might be a better choice when you have other receivers as when the Genie reboots, if you're using it to connect to your home network, this connection is lost during the rebooting.
> 
> As for your eligibility for upgrades :shrug: You'll need to check with DirecTV.


Thanks so much. I assume the top ethernet port on the HR21/HR23s is the primary port, correct? I'll give the solid signal forum a read.

Dave


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## jpx5

veryoldschool said:


> It would help to get more information:
> How do you connect to the router?
> Are you static IPs outside the DHCP reservation table?


wired connected home adapter and yes outside the dhcp range. When displaying system info page the ip's show up as static.


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## veryoldschool

jpx5 said:


> wired connected home adapter and yes outside the dhcp range. When displaying system info page the ip's show up as static.


You might move the ethernet over to your Genie to see if there is a problem with the wired CCK.
Only Genies can have the ethernet and DECA active.


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## jpx5

veryoldschool said:


> You might move the ethernet over to your Genie to see if there is a problem with the wired CCK.
> Only Genies can have the ethernet and DECA active.


thanks, I will try that


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## DaveC56

veryoldschool said:


> Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.
> There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.
> AGC is automatic gain control
> The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.
> Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,


One last question: Do the actual DECA adapter for the HR21s & HR23s required a DC power source for the adapter or is the power supplied via the power inserter for the SWM16 switch? I realize that the Genie unit will have the DECA built in.

Thanks,
Dave


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## veryoldschool

DaveC56 said:


> One last question: Do the actual DECA adapter for the HR21s & HR23s required a DC power source for the adapter or is the power supplied via the power inserter for the SWM16 switch? I realize that the Genie unit will have the DECA built in.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave


The DECA units for the HR21/23 are connected to the SAT #1 input and are powered from the receiver.


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## DaveC56

veryoldschool said:


> The DECA units for the HR21/23 are connected to the SAT #1 input and are powered from the receiver.


OK and thanks!

Dave


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## TXD16

New (and very specific) topic within the "Ask VOS" thread:

In an effort to avoid/eliminate diplexed OTA and DECA signal "overlap" issues, if one were to use a BSF in place of a "reversed" terminated diplexer when adding diplexed OTA to a Genie (either an HR44 or an HR34), and, thus, actually blocking the outgoing DECA signal with the BSF, rather than (mostly) dissipating it with the terminated diplexer, do we know exactly what deleterious affect that has on the internal DECA of the Genie units, either long-term, short-term, or both?

I understand that with the use of the BSF the DECA signal is reflected directly back into the unit, but are there any actual known/reported/documented issues with doing so?


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## veryoldschool

TXD16 said:


> I understand that with the use of the BSF the DECA signal is reflected directly back into the unit, but are there any actual known/reported/documented issues with doing so?


There isn't any known/reported/documented issues, though there are very few doing this.
The DECA output is in the range of 0+ dBm and the DECA receiver sensitivity is < -45 dBm, so "to me" it isn't a good idea to reflect the signal back without some attenuation.
YMMV


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## DaveC56

veryoldschool said:


> Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.
> There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.
> AGC is automatic gain control
> The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.
> Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,


Hi VOS: The Genie install took place last Thursday. We were in the middle of a heavy rain storm (reminents of Tropical Storm Karen), and fortunately it was just lightly raining when the tech arrived mid-afternoon. He installed the Genie plus the DECA adapters on my HR21s and HR23s. I was fortunately because he only had 3 adapters left, and offered me a free upgrade on one of my HR21s to an HR24 (which has the DECA built in, as you know). My first impression is that the DECA network is more responsive than connecting directly to my intra-net LAN structure when streaming HD program from one HD DVR to the Genie, HR21/23/24. As you pointed out, its probably due to DECA having less overhead than ethernet, plus less error checking on the packet transfer. Since my HR21, HR23s and HR24 are both client and HD DVRs, the tech did not bring nor install the wireless CCK. So far, I am very happy with the upgrade. The tech is returning next week to tweek the alignment on our Satelllite dish, since the 99 and 103 have significant signal levels less than the 101 satellite. During Hurricane Sandy last year, the 99 & 103 signal strengths were reduced after the storm. Anyway, the tech will check it out next week.

One last little tidbit, I find the Genie 720p/1080i output via HDMI color does not seem (to my eye) as "crisp" as my HR23/HR21 video. The HR24 has no difference in PQ as the HR21/HR23. I might just be seeing things, but I wanted to share that little fact with you.

I appreciate all the advice you gave me -- I am very happy with the upgrade.

Dave


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## jeepwrang3

OK VOS, I'm in a pickle with setting up a CCK to my existing setup. 

Have a single LNB into a 8way SWIM splitter. Only goes out to 3 receivers. 
HR-20/700(whole home white unit)
H21(whole home white unit)
HR34/700

SWM is located where the HR34 is setup. 

I've tried hooking the CCK into all 3 receivers(I know the H21 isnt a dvr, but just to get a connection to a different Router Network), all to no Avail. I'm encountering issues when trying to enter the security key. My router is an ASUS RT N56U unit, dual band. 2.4ghz is a secured WPA network. The 5ghz band is open network, no key, but the CCK cant find that network?. The other part of the house has a Trendnet cheapo router WEP encrypted. Each time i enter my password, I get the Unable to verify error. 

The oddity is that I tried setting up the HR20 to the CCK, tied into the Whole Home coax, and it worked initially. I didnt have to enter any password, but it worked for roughly an hour before we lost power thanks to the most recent winter storm. The following day when power was restored I was getting errors saying that the HR20 has 775 Cabling issues and was unable to find the SWM(As well as losing my DTV signal all together on that HR20 unit), despite when hittting the dash the SWIM was detected. 

What am I missing here? I've moved the CCK back ot the HR34, done a hard reset on that unit, reset the modem/Router's, reset the SWM, and all receivers with the whole home connection. Removed my firewalls on the routers, and yet, the unit is still unable to identify the security Key. 

Any help would be MUCH appreciated.


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## peds48

The most common mistake I have sen folks doing is interring a "blank" space when entering the password. When someone is entering the password, the continue button is on the right bottom of the screen, so is intuitive to press RIGHT to get there, obviously it does not get you there, so the user press DOWN. What you have just done is entered a space and sometimes this is enough to throw the password for a loop


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## jeepwrang3

peds48 said:


> The most common mistake I have sen folks doing is interring a "blank" space when entering the password. When someone is entering the password, the continue button is on the right bottom of the screen, so is intuitive to press RIGHT to get there, obviously it does not get you there, so the user press DOWN. What you have just done is entered a space and sometimes this is enough to throw the password for a loop


Thanks Peds. I did that the first time around attempting to setup key. Unfortunately it didn't make a difference for me. I should also say, the WPA password doesnt have any spaces or special symbols.

Also, I've attempted to use the WPS function, enabled it via the router settings, and hit the WPS button for 5 seconds on the CCK, but it doesnt seem to synch or find the CCK,

I tried to just enter random wrong security keys and they fail almost immediately, but when i enter my WPA key, it hangs for nearly 2 minutes. As if its trying to figure out the algorithm, but it times out?

It's setup as a WPA Personal with AES encryption.


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## jeepwrang3

I was able to plug in the CCKW into my router. Upon connecting, it connected to the internet, and started downloading. I went into the DECA settings, it's still not able to find the open network ASUS_5G, from its name, but it identified it when doing a site survey. THought i had manually set it up to save the wireless, but once i disconnected and attempted to connect via the receiver option, it was unable to find the network. I then hooked the DECA to my laptop, turned off my wireless, and went into the settings again. This time I gave up on the 5ghz network, instead just went into the 2.4ghz main network, selected WPA2 Personal passkey which the CCCW had correctly identifed, entered my security key and disconnected. It wouldnt connect to the receiver immediately so i went and did the setup again(DId this reset what I had set in the DECA?) Sorry for the books, I'm at a total loss at this point. I would have been better served just running cat 5 thru the walls for the time invested


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## veryoldschool

jeepwrang3 said:


> I was able to plug in the CCKW into my router. Upon connecting, it connected to the internet, and started downloading. I went into the DECA settings, it's still not able to find the open network ASUS_5G, from its name, but it identified it when doing a site survey. THought i had manually set it up to save the wireless, but once i disconnected and attempted to connect via the receiver option, it was unable to find the network. I then hooked the DECA to my laptop, turned off my wireless, and went into the settings again. This time I gave up on the 5ghz network, instead *just went into the 2.4ghz main network, selected WPA2 Personal passkey which the CCCW had correctly identifed, entered my security key and disconnected.* It wouldnt connect to the receiver immediately so i went and did the setup again(DId this reset what I had set in the DECA?) Sorry for the books, I'm at a total loss at this point. I would have been better served just running cat 5 thru the walls for the time invested


It sounds like you had some luck by going into the GUI in the WCCK, but didn't connecting it with the receiver.
I'd log back into the GUI, set it back up "and then" connected it back to the coax and on the receiver reset the network defaults.
Then "simply" use the "connect now" option. If the wireless settings were saved why in the GUI, they shouldn't need to be redone through the receiver.


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## jeepwrang3

veryoldschool said:


> It sounds like you had some luck by going into the GUI in the WCCK, but didn't connecting it with the receiver.
> I'd log back into the GUI, set it back up "and then" connected it back to the coax and on the receiver reset the network defaults.
> Then "simply" use the "connect now" option. If the wireless settings were saved why in the GUI, they shouldn't need to be redone through the receiver.


Gave that a whirl, still no go. Just gave up and hardwired directly from my router to the CCK, I guess rendering the Wireless part useless. Simple enough of a fix, and after 4 days of it driving me bonkers, running the cable took an hour. Thanks


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## mrjacobrussell

Hi I was hoping to find this information on DBS talk but havnt been able to come up with the correct search string. 

I am looking for what symbols can be entered on a hr44 ro hddvr when doing a wpa password with the DASH key.


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## jagrim

Hey VOS- I got a couple of questions

First, I am not seeing any issues except the error when I run a system test.

The error that I get is a network distribution error. I've gone into the coax network test (guide + right arrow) on my 34-700. And gives me numbers that I believe are high ( in the node test)

The CCK and the HR24-500 are both -50 & -51. All of the remainder are between -43 & -47 with the exception of one that is at -23.

The one at -23 is an HR24-500. All of the STB's show the network distribution error with the exception of an HR22-100 (phy of -43). All other receivers are HR24-500's plus one 34.

Within the last month or two, DTV rewired my hookup by moving the SWM16 from the attic to outside.

Previous Setup:
Four wires from dish to SWM16 (in attic) - about 50'
3' cables from SWM16 outputs to (2) 4-way splitters

New Setup:
Four wires from dish to SWM16 (under patio) - about 6'
(2) cables from SWM16 to splitters in attic - about 80'

The PI for the SWM16 is in the same place for both installation types.

All splitters are DTV Green label.

Though I don't have a problem now, I am concerned with the higher numbers. Since the highest numbers are at the CCK and adjacent HR24-500, is it possible that the CCK is starting to fail. Why does one receiver have such a low number and the corresponding receivers on that splitter have higher numbers? If I used the 34 as a bridge, should I see an improvement in the numbers? Why does the HR22-100 not give the error? It is the only receiver with an external DECA. 









Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## peds48

jagrim said:


> Previous Setup:
> Four wires from dish to SWM16 (in attic) - about 50'
> 3' cables from SWM16 outputs to (2) 4-way splitters
> 
> New Setup:
> Four wires from dish to SWM16 (under patio) - about 6'
> (2) cables from SWM16 to splitters in attic - about 80'
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


The key is hat we need to know entire cable lengths, from the SWM16 switch to spitters (provided) and from the splitters to the receivers (missing)

The HR22 can't test what it does not have and as such coax tests can only be done on receivers with built in DECA

Also posting the receivers that you have helps a lot as well


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## jagrim

peds48 said:


> The key is hat we need to know entire cable lengths, from the SWM16 switch to spitters (provided) and from the splitters to the receivers (missing)
> 
> The HR22 can't test what it does not have and as such coax tests can only be done on receivers with built in DECA
> 
> Also posting the receivers that you have helps a lot as well


Distances to splitter:
LR HR34-700: 45'
MB HR24-500: 45'
ST HR24-500: 45' (CCK W/green label splitter)(-50 & -51 on test)
UP: HR24-500: 30'
HA HR24-500: 25' (-23 reading on coax test)
AS. HR22-100: 20'

The rest are between -43 & -47 on coax test. All node numbers ran from the HR34

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## peds48

I would move the SWM16 closer (the attic?) and have the runs between splitters closer.

It would appear to me that the HR34 and *HA HR24-500: 25' (-23 reading on coax test) *are on the same splitter and the rest are on the other 4 way. and with 160 feet of wire between them, reason why the coax signal is low

Are you sing a wired or wireless CCK?


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## jagrim

peds48 said:


> I would move the SWM16 closer (the attic?) and have the runs between splitters closer.
> 
> It would appear to me that the HR34 and *HA HR24-500: 25' (-23 reading on coax test) *are on the same splitter and the rest are on the other 4 way. and with 160 feet of wire between them, reason why the coax signal is low
> 
> Are you sing a wired or wireless CCK?


This is a wired CCK.

I'll have to verify on which splitter the "good reading" HR 24-500 but I think the -50 is on that splitter. ( l'll verify when I have a chance).

I've been wanting a reason to swap back to the original setup so I'll do that sometimes this week and see if the numbers improve.

I've got a spare 16 so it will

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## peds48

My preferred set up would be as follows and this is assuming that you can ditch the CCK and connect the Genie directly to ethernet to your router.

SWM16 output 1 to a 2 way splitter/ connect the HR34 plus the HDDVR that has the longest run here
SWM16 output 2 to a 4 way splitter/ connect the other 4 HDDVRs here 
Connect is possible the power supply to the dedicated power connector on the SWM16


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## Bill Broderick

peds48 said:


> My preferred set up would be as follows and this is assuming that you can ditch the CCK and connect the Genie directly to ethernet to your router.
> 
> SWM16 output 1 to a 2 way splitter/ connect the HR34 plus the HDDVR that has the longest run here
> SWM16 output 2 to a 4 way splitter/ connect the other 4 HDDVRs here
> Connect is possible the power supply to the dedicated power connector on the SWM16


That surprises me. I thought that you prefer the wired CCK over connecting Ethernet to the Genie. Based on comments from both you and VOS, I just disconnected the ethernet from my Genie and reconnected a wired CCK in my guest bedroom this afternoon.


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## peds48

Bill Broderick said:


> That surprises me. I thought that you prefer the wired CCK over connecting Ethernet to the Genie.


depends what hat I am waring. If I am installing, I prefer the CCK as I get paid for it but do not get paid for ethernet, silly DirecTV. Also depends on the quantity of receivers connecting to the SWM network. in this case the poster has 6 receivers which can fit in a 2 way and a 4 way. Had the poster had 7 receivers, then 2 4 ways is the least you would to connect them and them it would not make a difference whether you have a CCK or not. in this case the omission of the CCK is merely to save a splitter port and thus decreasing signal loss.


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## veryoldschool

Late to this party as I was moving.

"The numbers" don't match.
I've got a calculator that I've put together with "nominal" losses and 50' off 4-ways should be in the range of -15s for nodes on the same 4-way to 30s for "cross SWiM" nodes.
Anything over -45 should degrade the Phy Mesh numbers and 220 or less will trigger the system test error.

With the Phy levels listed, and the lengths posted, either the lengths aren't correct or the coax is much lossier than normal.

Peds48:
Recent tests of splitter DECA losses have shown they're now -10 dB for all splitters.
Older splitters used to have a 6 dB difference between a 2-way and 8-way, but the newer all have the same -10 dB.


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## jagrim

VOS,

The lengths are as close as I can get them since most are hidden. What concerns me is this just started. I run a system test of at least once a week and sometimes more. This is the first time that the network distribution error has shown up.

I can remember running the phy test when we first found out about it and I believe those numbers were in 30's, but memory is not always good. 

What I plan to do this weekend is:
1). Swap the 24 that has the 23 reading to the other leg of the SWM16 and see what happens.

2). Try using the 34 as the bridge (removing the CCK) and see if the numbers change 

3). Use my spare SWM16 and rewire back to the attic (as before) then retest.

Hopefully, that will tell me something.

Another thing that I will check is if the PI is on the correct leg of the SWM16. When the tech installed the new SWM16 outside, we the plug pulled and didn't plug back in until everything was finished. I'm not sure what kind of problem that could cause. If it's on the correct leg, he was lucky.






Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## veryoldschool

I'm not sure what all of that will tell you.
The SWiM-16 has about 6 dB of loss in the crossover.
The splitters have about 10 dB.
A PI has about 1 dB if you're running the DECA through it.
The receiver test should be "repeatable" to ±1 or 2 dB.
I check coax loss with a CCK [or other DECA] at one end and a receiver on the other to run the "one node" loss.


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## slice1900

veryoldschool said:


> Recent tests of splitter DECA losses have shown they're now -10 dB for all splitters.
> Older splitters used to have a 6 dB difference between a 2-way and 8-way, but the newer all have the same -10 dB.


Are you saying that the DECA losses for a 2 way are 10db and the losses for a 8 way are also 10db? Curious how they accomplished that, any idea?


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## veryoldschool

slice1900 said:


> Are you saying that the DECA losses for a 2 way are 10db and the losses for a 8 way are also 10db? Curious how they accomplished that, any idea?


When I first got my hands on these splitters they varied from about 7 dB [2-way] to 10 dB [4-way] to 13 [8-way].
Several members have tested 2, 4, & 8-ways a couple of months ago and they ALL had 10 dB loss.

The 2 & 4-ways aren't hard to have 10 dB, but the 8-way would be because 9 of the 10 dB is in the 8-way split.
I have yet to open up one of these and check out what's inside, "but" I found a splitter design that looks to have 1 dB insertion loss for an 8-way, so "it's possible".
The same design can be padded for less outputs.
I'm not sure why someone would want to pad the splitters, "but then" DirecTV doesn't always do things for an engineering sense.


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## jagrim

peds48 said:


> I would move the SWM16 closer (the attic?) and have the runs between splitters closer.
> 
> It would appear to me that the HR34 and *HA HR24-500: 25' (-23 reading on coax test) *are on the same splitter and the rest are on the other 4 way. and with 160 feet of wire between them, reason why the coax signal is low
> 
> Are you sing a wired or wireless CCK?


Peds!

You are correct. The 34 and the low reading HR24-500 are on the same leg.

I did pull the CCK and splitter from the loop which dropped 4 on the test.

The only other thing I noticed is that I now have 8 way splitters. I must have not been paying attention when the tech was switching stuff in the attic.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## peds48

According to VOS, splitter size wont matter in DECA loss, So as long as you only have two 8 ways, each on each SWM16 output, getting any less is a moot point. shorting the distance between the two sides of the SWM16 may help


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## Bill Broderick

Before my current equipment was installed, I had a 4 way splitter feeding 2 DVR's and a wired CCK. When I got my HR44 Genie, I plugged Ethernet into it and the splitter was changed to a 2 way splitter. Recently, I decided to put the wired CCK back into the Guest Bedroom. But, rather than reinstall the 4 way and reconnecting the disconnected coax that still runs to the bedroom, I just installed a second 2 way splitter in the bedroom. The cable runs from the SWM16 to the guest room are pretty short (30' maybe) and I haven't had any picture problems (yet).

I know that there would be less signal loss if I reinstallied the 4-way splitter and removied the two way splitters. But, it is *necessary* to do so? Am I tempting trouble?


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## peds48

Bill Broderick said:


> Before my current equipment was installed, I had a 4 way splitter feeding 2 DVR's and a wired CCK. When I got my HR44 Genie, I plugged Ethernet into it and the splitter was changed to a 2 way splitter. Recently, I decided to put the wired CCK back into the Guest Bedroom. But, rather than reinstall the 4 way and reconnecting the disconnected coax that still runs to the bedroom, I just installed a second 2 way splitter in the bedroom. The cable runs from the SWM16 to the guest room are pretty short (30' maybe) and I haven't had any picture problems (yet).
> 
> I know that there would be less signal loss if I reinstallied the 4-way splitter and removied the two way splitters. But, it is *necessary* to do so? Am I tempting trouble?


SWM wise, should be no problems, DECA wise, you are adding another 10dB of loss, but since I know your lay out, and cable runs are short, you should be OK. I should be by your area Monday afternoon should you need a 4 way let me know


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## Bill Broderick

peds48 said:


> I should be by your area Monday afternoon should you need a 4 way let me know


Thanks. When I bought my SWM16, it came with two 4 ways and a 2 way. I still have one of the 4 ways So, I'm good as far as splitters go.


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## tarrakas

According to direct. The floor list for a and ird to work is -65 dbm. I've seen em work at -70 but with heavy pixalization. But as others have posted, the closer you are to this ceiling at the end of the run, the less room you have for "rainfade" or any other signal interference issues.

That being said you can also be to hot at the receiver. Though this will vary ( for reason unknown to me) I've gotten errors out of the 'h' series for lines being to hot. (Dbm was at -18 being the box.) I've seen this only once mind you, and the dish was pole mounted literally a foot away from the receiver just outside the wall.


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## veryoldschool

tarrakas said:


> According to direct. The floor list for a and ird to work is -65 dbm. I've seen em work at -70 but with heavy pixalization. But as others have posted, the closer you are to this ceiling at the end of the run, the less room you have for "rainfade" or any other signal interference issues.
> 
> That being said you can also be to hot at the receiver. Though this will vary ( for reason unknown to me) I've gotten errors out of the 'h' series for lines being to hot. (Dbm was at -18 being the box.) I've seen this only once mind you, and the dish was pole mounted literally a foot away from the receiver just outside the wall.


I don't see the question here which makes this thread different than all the others on the forum.

Broadcom specs their chips at -20 dBm to -70 dBm, and the chips themselves vary but should meet these specs.
-18 dBm must have been a legacy LNB, and it might be better to save one like that for another installation with more loss,
SWiM outputs are well below the tuner chip specs, except for the new DRE, which isn't used in residential use.
It's never a good idea to have a system running at minimum levels, but there also isn't much that can be done for rainfade "after the LNB".
The loss of CNR can't be overcome on the output of the LNB.


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## jagrim

VOS & Peds48

Changed out the 8 way splitter's for 4 way splitters today and numbers have reduced. No network errors either.

PHY PHY PHY
Receiver: (2) 8- way (1) 8-way & 1-4 way (leg 2) (2) 4-ways
CCK (98)(leg 2) -51 -46 -43
Study (58)(leg 2) -51 n/a (?) -44
Han (b6)(leg 1) -23 -23 -21
C41 (3c)(leg 1) -27 -27 -22
(29:3c)(leg 2) -47 -43 -39
(2c)(leg 2) -47 -43 -40
(77)(leg 2) -44 -41 -37

All readings taken from the HR34 on leg 1

The Phy Rate Mesh numbers are all above 250 with the exception of 3 or 4. The lowest is 239 on (2) nodes).

It looks like I gained about 4 on each splitter swap out on the readings on leg 2.

The CCK and the Study also have a 2 way. Last week I took the 2 way out and used the 34 as a bridge and dropped about 4 on the node test.

Though all tests pass now, I still plan to move the SWM16 back to the original location when it's cooler.

I can post pictures if you'd like.

Regards


----------



## veryoldschool

These numbers look a lot like what I've seen, where a 2-way has 7 dB, a 4-way 10 dB, and an 8-way 13 dB.

A couple of months ago, these were tested at two locations by various methods, because a supplier was stating they all had 10 dB.
There apparently has been a change to the splitters as a "good half a dozen tests" between 2-ways and 8-ways showed no difference in loss.


----------



## peds48

veryoldschool said:


> These numbers look a lot like what I've seen, where a 2-way has 7 dB, a 4-way 10 dB, and an 8-way 13 dB.
> 
> s


are those numbers on reference to swm loss or DECA loss?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## veryoldschool

peds48 said:


> are those numbers on reference to swm loss or DECA loss?


Phy levels mean DECA

The last testing showed -10/11 dB difference between a barrel and both a 2-way & 8-way as configured this way:


----------



## jagrim

veryoldschool said:


> These numbers look a lot like what I've seen, where a 2-way has 7 dB, a 4-way 10 dB, and an 8-way 13 dB.
> 
> A couple of months ago, these were tested at two locations by various methods, because a supplier was stating they all had 10 dB.
> There apparently has been a change to the splitters as a "good half a dozen tests" between 2-ways and 8-ways showed no difference in loss.


I'm thinking that when I move the SWM16 back to the attic that the leg 2 receivers will drop to the mid 20's. That is assuming about 5dB loss per 50' foot. Is that a good estimate?


----------



## veryoldschool

jagrim said:


> I'm thinking that when I move the SWM16 back to the attic that the leg 2 receivers will drop to the mid 20's. That is assuming about 5dB loss per 50' foot. Is that a good estimate?


It's a safe estimate, but maybe twice what the DECA loss should be for RG6.


----------



## peds48

veryoldschool said:


> It's a safe estimate, but maybe twice what the DECA loss should be for RG6.


Right I was thinking about 2.5

VOS, I was doing a SC today with the main "complain" being poor MRV playback. upon checking things out, I found a SWM16 by the dish with about 60 ft cable run from dish to splitters (both sides). there was an 8 way SWM splitter feeding a 3 way cable splitter ( :bang ) and a four way. after balancing everything out, I wound up with an 8 way feeding a 2 way SWM splitter (intend of the 3 way cable splitter) and the four way. with this set up it brought the system to "orange DECA status" from being well outdid before. but I was still a bit too high on that 2 way from 8 way. when changing the 2 way to come off the four way I was immediately rewarded with "green DECA status" but the HR34 was still barking at the DECA levels. ~48 give or take. When I brought the SWM16 next to the splitters, reducing the 120 foot run (60 each way) I was finally able to quite down the Genie with the worse signal being ~36

The point I am trying to make (or one of the points,) it seems that splitters do indeed have variable loss depending on splitter size. and second, is never a good idea to have the SWM16 to far apart from the splitters.


----------



## veryoldschool

peds48 said:


> Right I was thinking about 2.5
> 
> VOS, I was doing a SC today with the main "complain" being poor MRV playback. upon checking things out, I found a SWM16 by the dish with about 60 ft cable run from dish to splitters (both sides). there was an 8 way SWM splitter feeding a 3 way cable splitter ( :bang ) and a four way. after balancing everything out, I wound up with an 8 way feeding a 2 way SWM splitter (intend of the 3 way cable splitter) and the four way. with this set up it brought the system to "orange DECA status" from being well outdid before. but I was still a bit too high on that 2 way from 8 way. when changing the 2 way to come off the four way I was immediately rewarded with "green DECA status" but the HR34 was still barking at the DECA levels. ~48 give or take. When I brought the SWM16 next to the splitters, reducing the 120 foot run (60 each way) I was finally able to quite down the Genie with the worse signal being ~36
> 
> The point I am trying to make (or one of the points,) it seems that splitters do indeed have variable loss depending on splitter size. and second, is never a good idea to have the SWM16 to far apart from the splitters.


I'm hoping to find some sort of rev number change for which splitters are the same and which [earlier] aren't.
"Orange DECA status" isn't alway a loss issue. It comes from a lack of SNR, which can be due to too much loss, but it can also be due to the same DECA signal traveling through two different paths and combining in a degraded signal.
I had this in the early testing of DECA. My Phy levels were good but my mesh wasn't.
To test this theory of multiple DECA paths combining, I changed the line length of one of the coax by a couple of inches and "phased" the two signals such that the mesh went up and the orange LEDs turned green.

As for the splitter distance from the SWiM-16, it shouldn't have much [or any] affect, "other than" reducing the total run from the splitter to receiver.
You're basically just dealing with loss, and it doesn't matter if it's before or after the splitter.
When you start dealing with vary long runs with amps and diplexers, you may need to locate the splitter farther from the SWiM to keep the phy levels within range for the receivers off the splitter, by reducing the loss on the splitter to receiver runs.


----------



## jagrim

jagrim said:


> VOS & Peds48
> 
> Changed out the 8 way splitter's for 4 way splitters today and numbers have reduced. No network errors either.
> 
> PHY PHY PHY
> Receiver: (2) 8- way (1) 8-way & 1-4 way (leg 2) (2) 4-ways
> CCK (98)(leg 2) -51 -46 -43
> Study (58)(leg 2) -51 n/a (?) -44
> Han (b6)(leg 1) -23 -23 -21
> C41 (3c)(leg 1) -27 -27 -22
> (29:3c)(leg 2) -47 -43 -39
> (2c)(leg 2) -47 -43 -40
> (77)(leg 2) -44 -41 -37
> 
> All readings taken from the HR34 on leg 1


Well, I moved the SWM16 from outside by the dish to it's original position in the attic. All the signals on leg 2 came down about 8 dB. Unfortunately, I broke one of the 4-ways so I had to use an 8-way on leg 1. I'll get another one from SS and replace it next weekend. With the exception of the line that contains the 2-way for the CCK, all the readings are now below 35. 
BTW, I don't no how installers can work in that type of heat. I must just be getting old.

SWM16 outside SWM 16 attic
PHY PHY PHY
Receiver:[/ (2) 8- way (1) 8-way & 1-4 way (leg 2) (2) 4-ways (8way & 4way (leg 2)
CCK (98)(leg 2) -51 *-46* -43 *-39*
Study (58)(leg 2) -51 n/a (?) -44 *-40*
Han (b6)(leg 1) -23 *-23* -21 *-26*
C41 (3c)(leg 1) -27 *-27* -22 *-27* 
(29:3c)(leg 2) -47 *-43* -39 *-35*
(2c)(leg 2) -47 *-43* -40 *-35*
(77)(leg 2) -44 *-41* -37 *-32*


----------



## west99999

veryoldschool said:


> These numbers look a lot like what I've seen, where a 2-way has 7 dB, a 4-way 10 dB, and an 8-way 13 dB.
> 
> A couple of months ago, these were tested at two locations by various methods, because a supplier was stating they all had 10 dB.
> There apparently has been a change to the splitters as a "good half a dozen tests" between 2-ways and 8-ways showed no difference in loss.


This was interesting to me so today I hooked my meter up to a dish (swm5) with about 50 foot of SC RG6 tested the db with no splitter I then connected a 4 way splitter and lost 6 db I then connected an 8 way splitter and lost 2 more db's so a total of 8 db's. I did not try a 2 way. These were both brand new splitters and newer inventory as well.


----------



## veryoldschool

west99999 said:


> This was interesting to me so today I hooked my meter up to a dish (swm5) with about 50 foot of SC RG6 tested the db with no splitter I then connected a 4 way splitter and lost 6 db I then connected an 8 way splitter and lost 2 more db's so a total of 8 db's. I did not try a 2 way. These were both brand new splitters and newer inventory as well.


These are SWiM readings, right?
What meter?
"Repeatability" looks to be ±2 dB


----------



## west99999

Yes it is from SWM5 LNB with 50 ft of cable read it from Birddog Ultra and AIM both gave same reading. I am going to try it again with 2 way and a couple of other splitters. I haven't done this in some time and last time I did the 8 ways were dropping 11-13 db, 4 ways were between 7-9, and 2 ways would drop 4-6. so they have improved apparently.


----------



## peds48

west99999 said:


> Yes it is from SWM5 LNB with 50 ft of cable read it from Birddog Ultra and AIM both gave same reading. I am going to try it again with 2 way and a couple of other splitters. I haven't done this in some time and last time I did the 8 ways were dropping 11-13 db, 4 ways were between 7-9, and 2 ways would drop 4-6. so they have improved apparently.


But we are not "talking" about RF SWM loss. this is about DECA loss which is not possible to measure with AIM


----------



## veryoldschool

west99999 said:


> Yes it is from SWM5 LNB with 50 ft of cable read it from Birddog Ultra and AIM both gave same reading. I am going to try it again with 2 way and a couple of other splitters. I haven't done this in some time and last time I did the 8 ways were dropping 11-13 db, 4 ways were between 7-9, and 2 ways would drop 4-6. so they have improved apparently.


As peds48 points out, we were posting about DECA losses, but for SWiM losses, your numbers are expected.
Splitter loss is the sum of dividing power and the circuit loss, which varies by frequency.
A 2-way starts with -3 dB from dividing and -1.4 to -1.8 dB circuit loss for an insertion loss of 4.4 to 4.8 dB.


----------



## inkahauts

Hey Vos, isn't it said you are not supposed to ever terminate the ird port of a swim PI?


----------



## veryoldschool

inkahauts said:


> Hey Vos, isn't it said you are not supposed to ever terminate the ird port of a swim PI?


"Not supposed to ever" is false, or you couldn't connect a receiver to the IRD port.
A receiver is a load, which is another name for a terminator.
When a PI is connected to a pwr port with no RF, a termination isn't needed, but can still be used.
When a PI is connected to an RF port, it should/must be terminated to keep the RF from "bouncing" off the open port and degrading the signals.


----------



## peds48

veryoldschool said:


> "Not supposed to ever" is false, or you couldn't connect a receiver to the IRD port.
> A receiver is a load, which is another name for a terminator.
> When a PI is connected to a pwr port with no RF, a termination isn't needed, but can't still be used.
> When a PI is connected to an RF port, it should/must be terminated to keep the RF from "bouncing" off the open port and degrading the signals.


fixed it for ya!


----------



## peds48

inkahauts said:


> Hey Vos, isn't it said you are not supposed to ever terminate the ird port of a swim PI?


did not believe me?

a PI RF port is no different than a splitter port as as such it must be terminated. (when connected to an RF port_)


----------



## veryoldschool

peds48 said:


> fixed it for ya!


Didn't really need "fixing" as a termination will have "zero effect".


----------



## peds48

veryoldschool said:


> Didn't really need "fixing" as a termination will have "zero effect".


My interpretation was that it can't be used for video. upon re-reading I then realize it was referring to termination. my apologies.

How in my mind I thought that you could make mistakes.... silly me.... :rotfl:


----------



## west99999

I see, I jumped in on post and didn't see mention of DECA signals.


----------



## itzme

hi VOS! I am getting ready to renovate my living room, where my HR 44 lives connected to Swm and a CCK. I'm going to need to move my whole rack out of the room. During that time I want to be able to watch TV upstairs, where I have a C41 client on Swm. I'm going to try to leave the HR 44 all plugged in and try to place it on my mantel in the living room, but if I can't, can I replace the Bedroom C41 with the HR44? I won't need internet features for the few days this will all take. Any advice? Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

itzme said:


> hi VOS! I am getting ready to renovate my living room, where my HR 44 lives connected to Swm and a CCK. I'm going to need to move my whole rack out of the room. During that time I want to be able to watch TV upstairs, where I have a C41 client on Swm. I'm going to try to leave the HR 44 all plugged in and try to place it on my mantel in the living room, but if I can't, can I replace the Bedroom C41 with the HR44? I won't need internet features for the few days this will all take. Any advice? Thanks!


You can swap the 44 where the 41 is.
Make sure the SWiM PI stays connected and if you have an open coax, that it's terminated.


----------



## itzme

Since I don't think I have anything to terminate a coax, it sounds like I should find a way to leave it AC-plugged in and coax-connected, in the living room. Thanks, VOS.


----------



## Bill Broderick

itzme said:


> Since I don't think I have anything to terminate a coax, it sounds like I should find a way to leave it AC-plugged in and coax-connected, in the living room. Thanks, VOS.


You can get a 10 pack of terminators on ebay for $3.85 with free shipping.


----------



## dennisj00

Or stop a D truck.


----------



## texasbrit

Here's a question:
Went over to a friend's house last week, he has an HR44, a C41 and an HR24 running whole home through coax. His sister living in another building also has DirecTV, her own account and two HR24s running whole home through coax. Separate dishes. But they do share wireless internet. So how can they prevent whole home from one system seeing whole home in the other system - they have separate coax networks, but share a router and that "bridges" the two networks.


----------



## damondlt

texasbrit said:


> Here's a question:
> Went over to a friend's house last week, he has an HR44, a C41 and an HR24 running whole home through coax. His sister living in another building also has DirecTV, her own account and two HR24s running whole home through coax. Separate dishes. But they do share wireless internet. So how can they prevent whole home from one system seeing whole home in the other system - they have separate coax networks, but share a router and that "bridges" the two networks.


I'm almost positive your whole home doesn't require Internet to function. It uses the Swm technology. 
The connection to the internet, I'm fairly sure it is for on demand youtube and Pandora only.


----------



## texasbrit

damondlt said:


> I'm almost positive your whole home doesn't require Internet to function. It uses the Swm technology.
> The connection to the internet, I'm fairly sure it is for on demand youtube and Pandora only.


I think you are misunderstanding the question.
Both sides of the home want internet access for on demand etc. But giving them internet access creates a link between the two whole home systems.


----------



## peds48

texasbrit said:


> Here's a question:
> Went over to a friend's house last week, he has an HR44, a C41 and an HR24 running whole home through coax. His sister living in another building also has DirecTV, her own account and two HR24s running whole home through coax. Separate dishes. But they do share wireless internet. So how can they prevent whole home from one system seeing whole home in the other system - they have separate coax networks, but share a router and that "bridges" the two networks.


the only way around this is with a managed switch so that you can put the two SWM networks on different subnets. or jury-rig a two router network (not recommended)


----------



## veryoldschool

texasbrit said:


> Here's a question:
> Went over to a friend's house last week, he has an HR44, a C41 and an HR24 running whole home through coax. His sister living in another building also has DirecTV, her own account and two HR24s running whole home through coax. Separate dishes. But they do share wireless internet. So how can they prevent whole home from one system seeing whole home in the other system - they have separate coax networks, but share a router and that "bridges" the two networks.


New wireless router have a guest network, which may be the easiest way to separate the two units.


----------



## veryoldschool

Please remember the nature of this thread.
I've cleaned out a few posts.


----------



## peds48

veryoldschool said:


> New wireless router have a guest network, which may be the easiest way to separate the two units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wigest.PNG


Right on. I forgot about the "guest network" option.


----------



## veryoldschool

peds48 said:


> Right on. I forgot about the "guest network" option.


Guess we can't start calling you VOS jr yet, :lol:


----------



## peds48

veryoldschool said:


> Guess we can't start calling you VOS jr yet, :lol:


those are some huge shoes to fill.... :righton:


----------



## texasbrit

I had never heard of the guest network option...


----------



## veryoldschool

texasbrit said:


> I had never heard of the guest network option...


Don't think I had either until a couple of years ago.
Without a router having the option, you'd need to setup a different subnet, use a second router, or a managed switch as peds48 posted.

I got this just a few weeks ago: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=WNR1000100NAS&ss=201944


----------



## texasbrit

veryoldschool said:


> Don't think I had either until a couple of years ago.
> Without a router having the option, you'd need to setup a different subnet, use a second router, or a managed switch as peds48 posted.
> 
> I got this just a few weeks ago: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=WNR1000100NAS&ss=201944


How would you use a second router to do this? There's only one internet connection (FIOS) and the second router would have to have DHCP disabled, the primary router would be issuing the IP addresses...


----------



## veryoldschool

texasbrit said:


> How would you use a second router to do this? There's only one internet connection (FIOS) and the second router would have to have DHCP disabled, the primary router would be issuing the IP addresses...


Actually I think you just daisychain the routers and have each handle DHCP.
The second may need a DNS loaded manually.


----------



## dennisj00

You really don't want to daisy chain routers with both doing DHCP and NAT. Just asking for trouble.


----------



## veryoldschool

dennisj00 said:


> You really don't want to daisy chain routers with both doing DHCP and NAT. Just asking for trouble.


Not that it always won't be, but I played with it last year and didn't run into any problems other than DNS, which I had to manually set on the second router.


----------



## PCampbell

I have three HR24s and one H24 If I am correct I can change my 5lnb that I don't need for a SWM 3lnb and connect it to a 4 way splitter. Connect a power insurter to the splitter then one line to each recever.
If I wanted to add a genie in place of a 24 then I would need a SWM 16? If so would there be more signal loss with the SWM16 than the one splitter setup?


----------



## peds48

PCampbell said:


> I have three HR24s and one H24 If I am correct I can change my 5lnb that I don't need for a SWM 3lnb and connect it to a 4 way splitter. Correct
> 
> Connect a power insurter to the splitter then one line to each receiver. Correct
> 
> If I wanted to add a genie in place of a 24 then I would need a SWM 16? Correct
> 
> If so would there be more signal loss with the SWM16 than the one splitter setup? Unless the cable runs are extremely long, this should not be a concern.


----------



## PCampbell

How long ia extremely long?


----------



## keenan

This looks like the right thread.

I have a SWiM SL3S4NR2-02 with 1 coax line connected to a SWiM MSPLIT2R1-03 with 1 line connected to a PI21R-03 power inserter and 1 line out from the PI to a HR24.

To connect an HR44 would I just connect an RG6 cable to the unused port on the splitter directly to the HR44? 

I'm guessing at that point I would have used 7 of the possible 8 tuners available in such a setup? I plan to eliminate the HR24 very soon but I wanted to be sure I was installing the HR44 correctly.

Thanks


----------



## peds48

PCampbell said:


> How long ia extremely long?


150+ ft


----------



## peds48

keenan said:


> This looks like the right thread.
> 
> I have a SWiM SL3S4NR2-02 with 1 coax line connected to a SWiM MSPLIT2R1-03 with 1 line connected to a PI21R-03 power inserter and 1 line out from the PI to a HR24.
> 
> To connect an HR44 would I just connect an RG6 cable to the unused port on the splitter directly to the HR44?
> 
> I'm guessing at that point I would have used 7 of the possible 8 tuners available in such a setup? I plan to eliminate the HR24 very soon but I wanted to be sure I was installing the HR44 correctly.
> 
> Thanks


Correct on all counts


----------



## keenan

peds48 said:


> Correct on all counts


Great, thank you!


----------



## PCampbell

Is there a max length of cable from the dish to a SWM 16 ?


----------



## veryoldschool

PCampbell said:


> Is there a max length of cable from the dish to a SWM 16 ?


You want to keep it within 50' without adding an amp like a Sonora LA144R-T


----------



## PCampbell

Thanks I am at 60 feet.


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## veryoldschool

PCampbell said:


> Thanks I am at 60 feet.


"Close enough"


----------



## keenan

This distance from the splitter would not affect menu navigation speed would it? I moved my HR24 about 50+ away from the splitter and after giving it a few days it seems much slower than I remembered. Granted, I'm getting very used to how crazy fast the HR44 is, but it still seems as it the HR24 has lost quite a bit of speed.


----------



## peds48

keenan said:


> This distance from the splitter would not affect menu navigation speed would it? I moved my HR24 about 50+ away from the splitter and after giving it a few days it seems much slower than I remembered. Granted, I'm getting very used to how crazy fast the HR44 is, but it still seems as it the HR24 has lost quite a bit of speed.


Nope, the menus for the HR24 are local.


----------



## keenan

peds48 said:


> Nope, the menus for the HR24 are local.


That's what I figured but thought I would ask the experts, thanks!

Would it affect, noticeably anyway, channel change speed?


----------



## veryoldschool

keenan said:


> Would it affect, noticeably anyway, channel change speed?


Only if you used an atomic clock to measure it.


----------



## keenan

veryoldschool said:


> Only if you used an atomic clock to measure it.


 :rolling:


----------



## 521bee

I have a HR 44 with three wireless C41s and a H25 hardwired in. The HR 44 is wirelessly connected to the access point my question is can I connect an ethernet cable from the router to the HR 44 and do a RBR to have a hardwired connection from the router to the HR 44 and still have The wireless C41s work okay


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## veryoldschool

521bee said:


> I have a HR 44 with three wireless C41s and a H25 hardwired in. The HR 44 is wirelessly connected to the access point my question is can I connect an ethernet cable from the router to the HR 44 and do a RBR to have a hardwired connection from the router to the HR 44 and still have The wireless C41s work okay


The HR44 can be ethernet or wireless to your router.
The Wireless C41s need the video bridge, which normally is DECA/coax connected to the Genie.


----------



## 521bee

Thanks for the reply the installer insisted that if we hardwired to the router to the HR 44 that the C41W's would no longer work. So just to be correct if I hardwire the router and do a RBR everything should still work fine is that correct? Yes it does have a wireless bridge for the C41W's.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## veryoldschool

521bee said:


> Thanks for the reply the installer insisted that if we hardwired to the router to the HR 44 that the C41W's would no longer work. So just to be correct if I hardwire the router and do a RBR everything should still work fine is that correct? Yes it does have a wireless bridge for the C41W's.


The installer was mistaken.
Wireless or wired to the router, and the DECA/coax network is always working.


----------



## 521bee

That's what I thought thanks for your reply he was just so insistent about it he had me questioning myself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## veryoldschool

521bee said:


> That's what I thought thanks for your reply he was just so insistent about it he had me questioning myself.


I'm going to guess the installer knew if you connect ethernet to a HR24 that it disables the DECA, and didn't know that this changed with the Genie.


----------



## PCampbell

Is it worth the 9 bucks to change from a 8 way splitter to a 4 way splitter? I only have 4 recevers, when they did the Genie upgrade he used an 8 way.


----------



## veryoldschool

PCampbell said:


> Is it worth the 9 bucks to change from a 8 way splitter to a 4 way splitter? I only have 4 recevers, when they did the Genie upgrade he used an 8 way.


If your system is working well now, then no.


----------



## PCampbell

OK Thanks


----------



## Jim7983

If a recall correctly a year ago I had internet access on my HR24 with Internet on coax input to PI21R1-03 that was connected to MSPLIT8R1-03 connected to my HR24. I reconfigured system removing coax input to PI21R1-03 losing the internet which did not bother me at the time. Now that I want internet and reading forums here, it doesn't make sense to me that just reconnecting internet coax into PI21R-03 will work. Seems I need DECA adapter.

I am not sure if my memory completely failing and one of the following apply:
1) Never had internet on HR24
2) Forgot and misplaced DECA adapter
3) Connecting Internet to PI21R-03 will work

I called DTV and said my only option was to purchase DECA adapter for $50 or plug RJ11 Ethernet into HR24.

Really hoping will be able to just plug internet coax back into PI21R-03.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## veryoldschool

Jim7983 said:


> If a recall correctly a year ago I had internet access on my HR24 with Internet on coax input to PI21R1-03 that was connected to MSPLIT8R1-03 connected to my HR24. I reconfigured system removing coax input to PI21R1-03 losing the internet which did not bother me at the time. Now that I want internet and reading forums here, it doesn't make sense to me that just reconnecting internet coax into PI21R-03 will work. Seems I need DECA adapter.
> 
> I am not sure if my memory completely failing and one of the following apply:
> 1) Never had internet on HR24
> 2) Forgot and misplaced DECA adapter
> 3) Connecting Internet to PI21R-03 will work
> 
> I called DTV and said my only option was to purchase DECA adapter for $50 or plug RJ11 Ethernet into HR24.
> 
> Really hoping will be able to just plug internet coax back into PI21R-03.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


You'll need some version of a DECA to convert your internet to the DirecTV coax network [DECA].
The PI is merely a port that can be used for the connection.


----------



## Sgtsbabygirl1

VOS, I just wanted to tell you that even though I usually lurk I have learned so much from your posts!! Even as an employee, I pick up things. Thank you for your time and dedication to us in this forum!


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## veryoldschool

Sgtsbabygirl1 said:


> VOS, I just wanted to tell you that even though I usually lurk I have learned so much from your posts!! Even as an employee, I pick up things. Thank you for your time and dedication to us in this forum!


I'm glad I've been able to help, and thank you for posting.
The only pay we all get here is from other posters and their thanks.


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## jpray72

Need some help trouble shooting. I work at a school and we had DirecTv installed through a third party as part of there DirecTv goes to school program. This was over a year ago and one of the boxes will not work now. Originally everything was working when the techs left. Just had problem over the summer. Here is the set up. From Dish down to a 4 way splitter. Leg 1 goes about 20 feet to an HR box. Leg 2 goes about 35 feet to a black power inserter pi21... then to an HD box. Leg 3 goes about 150ft to a two way splitter and that feeds another HD box about 10 feet away and a finally another HR box about 40 feet away. Leg 4 is capped off. The farthest box will not receive a signal. I have checked the box at other places and the box is fine. I called directv goes to school department which is the department there techs call into when they need help trouble shooting and they said that the distance wasn't the problem. Do they make and would a larger power inserter help get the signal to the last box or would moving the power inserter to the last boxes location help get signal to the box? Do you have any other thoughts to try. We will have to call our own third party installer again if we have to but we are a small school and trying to save the money fixing this ourselves if we can. Thanks for the help.


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## veryoldschool

jpray72 said:


> Need some help trouble shooting. I work at a school and we had DirecTv installed through a third party as part of there DirecTv goes to school program. This was over a year ago and one of the boxes will not work now. Originally everything was working when the techs left. Just had problem over the summer. Here is the set up. From Dish down to a 4 way splitter. Leg 1 goes about 20 feet to an HR box. Leg 2 goes about 35 feet to a black power inserter pi21... then to an HD box. Leg 3 goes about 150ft to a two way splitter and that feeds another HD box about 10 feet away and a finally another HR box about 40 feet away. Leg 4 is capped off. The farthest box will not receive a signal. I have checked the box at other places and the box is fine. I called directv goes to school department which is the department there techs call into when they need help trouble shooting and they said that the distance wasn't the problem. Do they make and would a larger power inserter help get the signal to the last box or would moving the power inserter to the last boxes location help get signal to the box? Do you have any other thoughts to try. We will have to call our own third party installer again if we have to but we are a small school and trying to save the money fixing this ourselves if we can. Thanks for the help.


Minor correction: the PI must be connected to port 1 as its the only one that passes DC.
So you're having problem with the leg that has about 200' of coax and both a 2-way and 4-way splitter.
That's right at the limit and seems just a bit over if you're having problems.
Changing the PI location isn't going to do anything.
You could add this after the 4-way: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=SWMA2-T&d=Sonora-SWMA2T-Sing-Input-SWM-Amplifier-940-To-2150-Mhz-%28SWMA2T%29&c=Amplifiers&sku=

Another thing you could try is to have the SWiM channel used by the farthest receiver be changed to a lower channel.
If you unplug all the receivers and the SWiM PI, and then power the PI up and power up the farthest receiver first, this should get it to lock on to a lower channel.
Then power the other receivers up and they'll "snag" the higher channels.

This may have been what was done when it worked and then there was a power outage and with an uncontrolled rebooting the channels changed and your problem appeared [which will happen again]


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## jpray72

veryoldschool said:


> Minor correction: the PI must be connected to port 1 as its the only one that passes DC.
> So you're having problem with the leg that has about 200' of coax and both a 2-way and 4-way splitter.
> That's right at the limit and seems just a bit over if you're having problems.
> Changing the PI location isn't going to do anything.
> You could add this after the 4-way: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=SWMA2-T&d=Sonora-SWMA2T-Sing-Input-SWM-Amplifier-940-To-2150-Mhz-%28SWMA2T%29&c=Amplifiers&sku=
> 
> Another thing you could try is to have the SWiM channel used by the farthest receiver be changed to a lower channel.
> If you unplug all the receivers and the SWiM PI, and then power the PI up and power up the farthest receiver first, this should get it to lock on to a lower channel.
> Then power the other receivers up and they'll "snag" the higher channels.
> 
> This may have been what was done when it worked and then there was a power outage and with an uncontrolled rebooting the channels changed and your problem appeared [which will happen again]


Yes the the number one has the power inserter. I tried the booting sequence as you suggested it unfortunately did not work. I think we will have to try the amp you referenced. To make sure I understand correctly does it go between the 4 way splitter and the 2 way splitter? I have a outlet available it is right next to the four way. Is that an advisable location?


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## veryoldschool

jpray72 said:


> Yes the the number one has the power inserter. I tried the booting sequence as you suggested it unfortunately did not work. I think we will have to try the amp you referenced. To make sure I understand correctly does it go between the 4 way splitter and the 2 way splitter? I have a outlet available it is right next to the four way. Is that an advisable location?


That's where I'd connect it because you only have that one run that needs it.
If you connected it before the 4-way, then all the runs would be amplified and you don't need them as they're much shorter and don't have the added 2-way.

Just so we're on the exact same page:



> Leg 3 goes about 150ft to a two way splitter and that feeds another HD box about 10 feet away and a finally another HR box about 40 feet away.


The HD receiver about 10' works while the receiver about 40' doesn't?
The 40' coax and connectors have been checked for damage?


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## jpray72

veryoldschool said:


> That's where I'd connect it because you only have that one run that needs it.
> If you connected it before the 4-way, then all the runs would be amplified and you don't need them as they're much shorter and don't have the added 2-way.
> 
> Just so we're on the exact same page:
> 
> The HD receiver about 10' works while the receiver about 40' doesn't?
> The 40' coax and connectors have been checked for damage?


Correct all three of the other receivers work. It is only the farthest one away that gets no signal. Checked all the connectors look fine and are tight. Swapped legs of the 2 way splitter and same results 10' foot HD receiver works and the 40' HR didn't.

Just so I understand the amp will go on the line feeding both the 10' run and the 40' run prior to the second (2 way) splitter. This would amp both the 10' run and the 40' and this is ok?


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## veryoldschool

jpray72 said:


> Correct all three of the other receivers work. It is only the farthest one away that gets no signal. Checked all the connectors look fine and are tight. Swapped legs of the 2 way splitter and same results 10' foot HD receiver works and the 40' HR didn't.
> 
> Just so I understand the amp will go on the line feeding both the 10' run and the 40' run prior to the second (2 way) splitter. *This would amp both the 10' run and the 40' and this is ok*?


Yes, and it should be fine, since it's only going to compensate for the 150' & the 2-way.


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## jpray72

veryoldschool said:


> Yes, and it should be fine, since it's only going to compensate for the 150' & the 2-way.


Thanks we will get one of those and try that.


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