# Things change



## Guest (Jul 16, 2002)

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cable_tv/dish_network.html


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

Just to be fair. 
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cable_tv/directv.htm


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

One thing that I noticed is that most of the problems come from people not reading their contracts or asking questions.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

One thing I see mentioned that i have a problem with is bogus PPV charges showing up on my bill.

There have been numerous PPV and Adult PPV charges on my bill that Dish has refused to remove.

There were two Adult PPV movies I was charges for which I know was impossible as I got married that day and was away from home! Still Dish refused to remove them.

Last month I had another Adult PPV and again they refused to remove them, I really would like to know how I am getting charged for PPV when none of my receivers are hooked to phone lines. (They have not come up with an answer for this one)


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

One of the complainers said, in part _"...DISH Network appears to be a 
pyramid sales operation to sell dishes and service for TV reception. The 
credit card that I was charged on has only been used in the past three 
months to pay for my monthly CompuServe internet service."_

:shrug:

Well, this complainer certainly seems to have her facts in order. 

The problem here is that the satisfied DBS customers don't complain. Here, 
we are all customers and some of us are dealers/installers. It's too bad that 
the people in those stories have had bad experiences, but I have the feeling 
they brought some of their dissatisfaction on themselves.

On the other hand, lies, exaggerations and broken promises on the part of 
installers doesn't make for happy campers. Finally, customer service can be
appalling at times.

My worst experience with an E* CSR and his supervisor was a dispute over 
requesting a credit for a failed overnight PPV recording attempt. It was the 
worst YELLING and SCREAMING match I have ever had. To make a very 
bad situation even worse for me, I had called their special "Club Dish" CS 
number and was expecting the 'red carpet' treatment. Boy, was I ever wrong! 
Finally, they agreed to a credit which I never got, and I ended up paying twice 
for the same movie. I had to reach for the Pepcid after that one.

Nickster :smoking:


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## Karl Foster (Mar 23, 2002)

I did a search on the site, and most of the complaints I saw were well over a year old. If people would read their contracts, much of their problems could be alleviated. But, some of the blame has to go to the DBS companies or their local installer for not explaining the contract issues clear enough for their customers to understand. 

My experiences with the CSRs at Directv have been anywhere from professional and informative to canned responses off of a cue card. It is definitely luck of the draw. I know they contract out their service to Convergys, and one of the big call centers is near my home in South Jordan, Utah. They have a very high turnover rate, and training employees must be a nightmare. I find that if I call late at night, I have a better experience than during the day. YMMV. I haven't had the need to yell at anyone yet - no unauthorized PPVs or anything like that.

My experiences with Ultimatetv, on the other hand, have been great. When there was a spot beam problem back in December, the UTV person explained exactly what the problem was, and as an apology for the poor reception, UTV credited my account four months of service. When I first set up my first UTV in June, 2001, they gave me three months free UTV service. They have been really professional and generous, IMHO.

I have definitely had a much better experience with Directv that I ever had with AT&T Broadband.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Did you have a ppv lock code which is a four digit number? Did you check the purchases screen in the menu to see if anything was purchased? Did you put a pin on the account to make sure nobody gets into the account unless they have that pin number? I know of a customer that did not order some sporting event for a season and got charged for it and they did NOT want to remove it and it took some good talking to get it removed. The customer was going to go to DirecTv or just plainly drop the service if they would not remove it. Its not always about the money but about the principal of the matter.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Jacob,

At the time I had no lock, but I do now and still get bogus charges from time to time (Had a $9.95 adult PPV show up last month) I am the only person with the pin, and again my phone lines are not hooked up.

Its agrivating!


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

I like these people who say they were charged for Porn. Did they check with their teenage sons?


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Sorry no teenage sons  

I got a baby in the oven though.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If no phone lines are hooked up then the only possible way is for someone to call it in if it would even be leginimate. 

I wonder if the cable companies do these such things. I think there is a way to make it to where nobody is allowed to order ppv's at all, you can tell them that you dont want ppv movies and I think they can have them all blocked, not too sure.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Jacob,
> 
> At the time I had no lock, but I do now and still get bogus charges from time to time (Had a $9.95 adult PPV show up last month) I am the only person with the pin, and again my phone lines are not hooked up.
> ...


There's a possibility that you may not like. You said you were away on the day in question. Maybe there were visitors in you house (known to you or unknown). A call to DISH from you home number would activate the channel and cause the charge even though your receiver isn't connected.

With movies, there's an additional $1 charge for requesting this way. If the situation is the same with the adult channels, you could confirm if the request was made by a phone call. I'm sure DISH should be able to tell you how the request was made.


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## DishDude1 (Apr 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AllieVi _
> *There's a possibility that you may not like. You said you were away on the day in question. Maybe there were visitors in you house (known to you or unknown).*


Breaking in to watch porn! Now that is some addiction!


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## Rick_EE (Apr 5, 2002)

Actually, you don't need to break in. Many network interface boxes are accessible by a screwdriver. You can plug in a phone right there and make your call.

A question- howcome it always seems that the unauthorized purchases are adult fare? :sure:


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Actually some of the bogus PPV Charges were for non adult stuff too (I think you only hear about the adult stuff because they wack you $10+ for an aduly movie.)

I had the movie Cats & Dogs on my bill a few months ago. Again checked my receivers and none of them could have ordered it, besides that I purchased the movie on DVD long before it ever came out on PPV.


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## DishDude1 (Apr 13, 2002)

Yes, someone can easily open the telephone box outside and plug a phone in, but remember the receiver is making the call and reporting that a movie was purchased on THAT receiver...so someone would need access to the receiver. HEY WAIT! Maybe someone got a dish remote and turned the tv and receiver on through the window and watched the XXX movies outside through the glass! If your tv is viewable from a window maybe you better close the blinds!


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

My aunt was charged for an access card I still believe (and told her I believed) THEY destroyed with an ECM. Even if they didn't - the card clearly says it's their property (therefore they should be responsible for failure). I would have fought it. She just said "whatever, my bill this month is still cheaper than cable". So you have to remember that some people are willing to take a lot of crud.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

BTW, the card was $15 if I remember right. That should tell you how much cable here costs (almost $50 a month for basic digital I believe (missing many MAJOR channels such as VH1, Cartoon Network, MTV2, Food Network, etc...), plus a $8.something fee per extra receiver. At least it was a year or two ago)


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

That is a good point, if they claim that the cards are theirs then we should not be responsible for them getting hit by these ecm's.

Does DirecTv now require that all smart cards be shipped back when your service is shut off?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If it was called in using the phone then there would be an extra charge of $1 for calling it in by phone, did that show up on the bill or did it show up like it came from the receiver?


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DishDude1 _
> *Yes, someone can easily open the telephone box outside and plug a phone in, but remember the receiver is making the call and reporting that a movie was purchased on THAT receiver...so someone would need access to the receiver. HEY WAIT! Maybe someone got a dish remote and turned the tv and receiver on through the window and watched the XXX movies outside through the glass! If your tv is viewable from a window maybe you better close the blinds! *


I've never ordered anything via the remote or a phone call, so I may not fully understand the situation. I thought ordering by phone was independent of any specific receiver ID and ordering this way authorizes all receivers on the account to view the show. No receiver-to-phone connection is involved.

I suspect a "friend" of Scott was in his house and ordered the event. It could have been a friendly prank to embarass when the bill arrived.

Of course, there's always another explanation. Based on the day it happened, Scott may have simply been trying to get in the mood and actually ordered it. The blood that would have held his short-term memory was lost for a time and he simply has no recollection of what he did.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Actually some of the bogus PPV Charges were for non adult stuff too (I think you only hear about the adult stuff because they wack you $10+ for an aduly movie.)
> 
> I had the movie Cats & Dogs on my bill a few months ago. Again checked my receivers and none of them could have ordered it, besides that I purchased the movie on DVD long before it ever came out on PPV. *


Your problam sounds familliar. I recall an almost identical problem posted on DBSForums. It turned out that the IRD of the poster was cloned prior to his purchase of the IRD. So some other IRD had the exact same ID as the poster's (located in another state).


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## Kevin (Mar 27, 2002)

With all these strange PPV charges showing up on people's bills, I'd better look at mine more carefully next time. I don't think that anyone in my house even looks at it since it's on credit card autopay. Dish probably could have slipped one right under my nose...


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Whew! I'm glad that no one here thinks E*'s computers made an error.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Come on Nick, I am told that Dish Network's Radio Chack TRS-80 Computers cant make mistakes!


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## ERSanders (Apr 24, 2002)

If you live in a high density area (apartment, etc.) your remote may be on the same channel with the (other) person ordering adult PPV. Consider changing your remote location code.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If it were true with someone else's remote ordering his ppv then think about this - the customer's receiver would have the ppv movie show up, and if the phone line is not connected then it should not be going through anyways.

Scott, do they charge you an extra $1 fee for a call in or does the $1 extra fee not show up on the bill?


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## ERSanders (Apr 24, 2002)

Jacob, if the remote was within range of the receivers of the person who ordered the PPV and the customer who did not, then the PPV would show up on both receivers. The person who did not order it would never know, while the one who did order it got his/her rocks off.

Your point about the phone line is valid, but I have not seen it mentioned in this thread...perhaps I missed it.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

None of his receivers are connected to phone lines. Thats why I asked if the extra $1 charge showed up on the bill for calling in the PPV's. If he would change his remote address then that would single that out.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2002)

If the phone line is not connected, there is *no way* for E*'s computer to know that a PPV was purchased. This takes me back to the "cloned" IRD senerio I posted earlier.

Was your IRD purchased in a sealed box directly from a dealer, or a used one?


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

no phone line connected - and charges - hmm 

unbelievable - something fishy somewhere...
maybe UFO


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Just another example of Dish ripping people and not wanting to fix THEIR mistakes. There is a flaw in the system somewhere. There is only so much one can take. They do this because they KNOW they can get away with it. When a customer calls in to cancel THEN they take it off the bill.


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