# Bye Bye Blackberry... maybe.



## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

Looking at market closing news today it appears that several are saying that RIMM's days may be numbered.
They have apparently hired JP Morgan to help coach them, and many are saying that they are likely to be ripe for the taking. Analysts doibt any big players like HTC would be interested, but some smaller Chinese companies could be players.

Does anyone here still use Blackberry?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I do, though I use it mostly for email. I actually like 7.1, though I do also like iOS and have an iPad. I hate Android. Blackberry is the best for Exchange integration to me, using BES.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Yeah, I've been saying that BB is in trouble for quite some time now. They just don't get it. They've been stuck in limbo between business phone and consumer phone and can't get either right. I switched from BB to Android almost exactly a year ago, and I don't miss anything about BB. Even the email is better on Android. Using an email app like TouchDown is hands down superior to BB, and it's not even that close.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Most of my support calls are from users that chose Android and Touchdown for email.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> I hate Android. Blackberry is the best for Exchange integration to me, using BES.


+1.
My company swapped out my Blackberry two years ago for an Android. While I like the internet and WiFi hotspot on the Android, it's integration with my email, contacts and calendars is sadly lacking when compared to a BB.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

BB is tops for email and their handsets have better reception than most.

I had an Android and hated it. Sold it and went back to BB. I don't play games or watch videos on my phone though.

There is nothing wrong with BB for business. It will never be a kids phone.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Switched exactly two years ago to an Android phone and couldn't be happier. 

I use it strictly for a phone, email, calendar, and contacts - no games, no videos, none of the "extras" (well, occasionally I'll use the GPS). Does everything my BB did, but better.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I think part of my frustration with android is fragmentation. I can't restrict users to particular models, so I've got units with multiple UIs, OS version is at the whim of the carrier. Walking a user through something is challenging if they can't even find the power button or need to get new hardware and are upset that they have to rebuy apps because they have no idea what their Google email address is, let alone the password. I don't run into that much on Apple units.

Though I am still trying to get some users to update past 3.x or 4.1, and some that can't.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

I dislike both Android (fragmentation, polluted market) and iPhone, even I see the end of RIM. And look at my handle 

I recently switched to a very nice Nokia Lumia Windows Phon 7.5.

Exchange integration (via Exchange Active Sync) is fine. I like the UI (Metro is different, if nothing else) and finally gave up on my BlackBerry.

They aren't dead. Yet. But they are hurting and will be for the next two years.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

You moved off Blackberry?! That's almost like Stuart Sweet going to Dish. I remember you from your mod days. I will say the two users I have with Windows Phone, love it.

I'm also curious, those that say their Android phone does email better...how so? I can't tell you how many times I've had a user say that their phone does this or that in comparison to Blackberry, and I can say, yep mine can do that as well.

Sometimes it's a matter of OS version, sometimes what an admin allows or doesn't allow.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a list of things that Windows Phone 7 can't do, that BlackBerry can.. 
But I switched and I am sticking with it. I guess I just got bored with the sameness...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

On the Blackberry side, I just hope they allow trading in BES licenses for BB10 Mobile Fusion licenses.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

"dpeters11" said:


> Most of my support calls are from users that chose Android and Touchdown for email.


That may be, but TouchDown is light years better than BlackBerry. It is very powerful, with many more features, so maybe some of the less tech-savvy people will have some questions.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Examples?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

They already announced a workforce cut of 2000-6000 jobs. They've acknowledged that their tablet has failed to produce any value to their brand and that at this point if BB10 doesnt' take off they're just going to be a niche product or an acquisition for a patent portfolio.

Supposedly Canada is thinking about government assistance in some manner so that they can keep a global cellular company in the market place. Overall though this has been something that's been happening for a long time. The similarity between them and TiVo is astounding.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

A thread from a year ago on this topic. :lol:


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

klang said:


> A thread from a year ago on this topic. :lol:


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2733845#post2733845

Whoops. 

The irony of his current avatar isn't lost on me either.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

http://money.cnn.com/video/markets/2012/05/30/investing-bz-blackberry.cnnmoney/


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

More bad news for RIM here. Seems to me delaying Blackberry 10 is just compounding their problems.


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## naijai (Aug 19, 2006)

klang said:


> More bad news for RIM here. Seems to me delaying Blackberry 10 is just compounding their problems.


RIM is circling that drain or death slowly and will eventually drop in. I really don't think there is anything they can do to save themselves at this point, With private companies dropping them slowly, it's just a matter of time. Even consumers don't want to wait anymore for BB next big thing that might revive them.


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

The vultures are circling, RIMM is in big trouble.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I was a huge RIM fan, now all iPhone/iPad/Apple TV ... (what a shame).

You need to very nimble these days.

Used to say the same about TiVo, until I moved to HR2x/HR3x.

Never a dull moment.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

My company has gone to all iPhones now. We're all very happy.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2012)

Well most of the customers shifted to the android as they have many useful features and i am one among them. Android is a great platform which provides a way to access many applications and i think people using BB are in a rare count now.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> My company has gone to all iPhones now. We're all very happy.





jessicalennita said:


> Well most of the customers shifted to the android as they have many useful features and i am one among them. Android is a great platform which provides a way to access many applications and i think people using BB are in a rare count now.


I suspect our company (20,000+ employees) will go the Android route if RIM goes much further south - Android is already are supported for some product-specific apps and integrated solutions, while Apple products are banned for company use.

Ironically, I just got a new BB Torch 9500 series issued a few weeks back, and asked "what if..." questions. The response I got was "we'll look at alternatives if and when the time comes". I suspect a plan is already in place should RIM fold or get bought.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Just curious, why are Android devices allowed, and iPhones banned? Of course I understand if you can't say for security reasons etc. Just thinking that a lot of the issues that could be a reason for iPhone could also apply to Android.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> Just curious, why are Android devices allowed, and iPhones banned? Of course I understand if you can't say for security reasons etc. Just thinking that a lot of the issues that could be a reason for iPhone could also apply to Android.


I actually asked that question and was told that the iOS security standards were "not acceptable", whereas the Android security standards "could be managed". In addition, "iOS devices "were far too costly to purchase and maintain in comparison".

_[Keeping in mind that literally many thousands of devices would be impacted]_

One of the sad ironies is that my Torch BB device works extremelly well - the best BB to date (had 4 of them over time).

I'm simply conveying the information I was given from corporate IT Management, as opposed to stating any opinion on this topic.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Unfortunately, as in politics, there are lobbyists (or internal zealots) in IT. Whether what they say is true or not isn't a consideration until after they are "discovered".

I remember when someone convinced the local community college that Apple ][ computers with CP/M cards (a Z80 based computer on a card) was a better platform for running Wordstar (the defacto standard prior to Word Perfect) than anything else available at the time.

From my perspective, Exchange Server is the problem and if it weren't for Exchange Server and RIM's mastery of it, RIM would have disappeared years ago.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> From my perspective, Exchange Server is the problem and if it weren't for Exchange Server and RIM's mastery of it, RIM would have disappeared years ago.


That could very well be. Then again...Exchange server works quite well with RIM.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I actually asked that question and was told that the iOS security standards were "not acceptable", whereas the Android security standards "could be managed". In addition, "iOS devices "were far too costly to purchase and maintain in comparison".
> 
> _[Keeping in mind that literally many thousands of devices would be impacted]_
> 
> ...


Interesting. Of course right now I'm trying to get a Good server in here, to better manage both. As for IT lobbyists, I try to stay fairly neutral.

I have suggested Blackberry still to some users that only care about Exchange access and want a physical keyboard. I recommend iPhone more often than Android, mostly because we've had more users regret going Android. If the user is more computer adept, sometimes I have recommended a good Android unit. The only one I don't recommend is Windows Phone.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> Interesting. Of course right now I'm trying to get a Good server in here, to better manage both. As for IT lobbyists, I try to stay fairly neutral.
> 
> I have suggested Blackberry still to some users that only care about Exchange access and want a physical keyboard. I recommend iPhone more often than Android, mostly because we've had more users regret going Android. If the user is more computer adept, sometimes I have recommended a good Android unit. The only one I don't recommend is Windows Phone.


I'm praying a Windows phone standard is not an option at work, should RIM end up out of the picture. I'm with ya on that.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

After 11 years with a BB (from the 950 and 957 to the 9900) I cut the cord. I have a Windows Phone 7 and like it a lot. Absolutely no issues. Integrates nicely with Exchange ActiveSync.

RIM has bet the ranch on BB 10 and is burning through cash as they try to overcome the fact that they haven't had a new phone in 9 months and won't for another 6.

Android - well, if you can get past the cesspool that is their Marketplace, is a very nice platform. iOS and the iPhone is what it is. They have sold 250 million since it was released. It must appeal to some <sarcasm>.

RIM, I fear, is going down the road of Palm and Nortel...


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm praying a Windows phone standard is not an option at work, should RIM end up out of the picture. I'm with ya on that.


WM I think is the strongest of the OS's out there at the moment. The only thing it lacks really is a high end phone on a CDMA carrier.


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## ChipperJones (Jul 30, 2012)

Goodriddance!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I'm praying a Windows phone standard is not an option at work, should RIM end up out of the picture. I'm with ya on that.


Well the primary reason I don't recommend it is its dead certainly at least to Windows Phone 8, at least. I do have one user with one, he loves it.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"njblackberry" said:


> RIM has bet the ranch on BB 10 and is burning through cash as they try to overcome the fact that they haven't had a new phone in 9 months and won't for another 6.
> ...


For the first time, I'm going to have to tell people we don't support BB. I'm not putting in a Mobile Fusion server, even on a VM, for a few users.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Shades228 said:


> The only thing it lacks really is a high end phone on a CDMA carrier.


It seems quite apparent that it lacks an upgrade path.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

It offers the same upgrade path as Apple: buy a new one.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

harsh said:


> It seems quite apparent that it lacks an upgrade path.


Actually it's almost the opposite with WM8 coming out things are on hold and the fact that CDMA carriers have more power over phone manufacturers doesn't help as well.

The Lumina 900, as of now, is slated to not get the WM8 upgrade so there's almost no compelling reason for a carrier to pick it up if it hasn't already. The key is if they can get a WM8 phone to launch the same time they launch Windows 8.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

The problem is there IS no upgrade path from WP7; MS has come out and said no current phone will get WP8...so that kind of nukes any possible momentum they would have gotten.


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## koji68 (Jun 21, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> For the first time, I'm going to have to tell people we don't support BB. I'm not putting in a Mobile Fusion server, even on a VM, for a few users.


We just announced our users that we won't support BB by July 2013. Only ActiveSync devices.

BB used to be 80% or our user base. Now, it is less than 10%.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> WM I think is the strongest of the OS's out there at the moment. The only thing it lacks really is a high end phone on a CDMA carrier.


Actually none of their phones are particularly 'high-end" compared to the competition with regards to screen resolution because they are restricted to 480x800 by MSFT.

The application market for that platform is still terribly limited compared to iOS and Android as well.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RasputinAXP said:


> It offers the same upgrade path as Apple: buy a new one.


The difference between iPhone (or Android phones) and WinMo8 is that the new phones and their associated operating systems will almost surely run the old software more or less natively. WinMo8 is based on Windows 8 so it seems likely that you'll have to forsake your WinMo7 based software unless they come out with an emulator.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Well, with some different info, things change for me. Since there won't be any cost for software or licenses for me, I started building my BB10 server today, will finish up tomorrow, then get a device when they become available from Verizon. After the things they have shown so far, anyone else going for it?


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## austen0316 (Jun 21, 2006)

After seeing screen shots and people that have had a hands on with it, I feel BB10 might surprise a lot of people


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

Perhaps. I will be at the launch next week. Surprising people isn't enough. Getting them to give up their SGS III, Nokia Lumia 920 or iPhone 5 will be the issue.

It is a nice device. But what will make it fly off the shelves (and "Peek" and "Flow" may not be enough). 

And how many companies (dpeters11's is obviously NOT one) are not going to bother with a brand new BES when they have a nice MDM already installed.

Cautiously optimistic.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I actually tried to get Good in here, but one user that tried it didn't like it on iOS, so it was killed.

So far my biggest hurdle, it seems the tradein website doesn't accept 6 digit SRPs...


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