# Installation Hints



## RuhiA (Sep 3, 2002)

I received my 721/301 combo with Quad Dish 500 system last Thursday. When I called the DISH Network the person who I spoke with first did not believe I had 721 and then couldn't find the Free Installation instructions to process the order. In less than half an hour, I was scheduled for Tuesday afternoon.

I read through any material it came with and inspected the hardware as much as I can to be "prepared" for the installer. What should I be watching out to take a notice in case if the installer is hired for the day from Ready Labour? Is there any chance that s/he would try to cut corners that I wouldn't notice? Can I pick the install location (with clear SE sight) or will be dictated to me wherever the easiest is for the installer? For some reason, I'm a bit prematurelly concerned about this process. Maybe becasue I've been reading this forum too long 

Ruhi


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Well I would be looking for 2 issues:

1. How they run the cables from the Dish to the recievers. I personally ran the cables myself (Got a 500' spool of RG6 cable from Loewes and spent some time getting it right). I did not put the ends on, I let them do that when they got here.

2. How well they point the dish. On a clear day the 301 should show 110+ on most transponders for 119, and 100+ on 110. Note that they rescaled the 721 to only go to 100, so I do not know what a good 721 signal should be. This is the only part of the installation that is hard because they have to tilt the dish just right to get max signal on both satellites.

Essentially that is it to the installation. They mount the dish on the wall outside, the run the cables from there to the boxes (note the 721 needs 2 cables since it has two tuners), ground the system, plug in the boxes, have them download the latest software, and call your activation into Dish (your smartcard and reciever numbers).


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## zimm0who0net (Aug 27, 2002)

Watch them every step of the way and don't hesitate to insisit that they do the job right. While there are many installers who do a good job (at least so I've heard), most do the bare minimum. Whadda expect for free!!! 
I will almost guarantee that they will NOT ground the dish, they will NOT install a grounding block, and will NOT put adequate tie downs on the cables unless you insist that they do.


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## xgrep (Aug 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by zimm0who0net _
> [...]
> I will almost guarantee that they will NOT ground the dish, they will NOT install a grounding block, and will NOT put adequate tie downs on the cables unless you insist that they do.


I would hope that if an installer did not ground the system properly (which is in flagrant violation of the electrical code), a quick call to Dish would get that fixed very quickly. The liability consequences of a single mistake like that could cost Dish more than what they hope to gain by The Merger.

x


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

If you go to dishnetwork site they have wiring diagrams and they show what should be grounded so you can check the installation.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

Informal pole here. What type of installer does the best job?

In my market there are two types of Dish Network installers. I've named them corporate and ma and pop. Corp has nice new white vans, with huge dish network logos all over the place. As well as the Dish 800 number and programming packages.

Ma and Pop is usually a old dodge minivan with a magnetic sticker slapped on the side. 

When you've had a good or bad install what type of installer was it?


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## zimm0who0net (Aug 27, 2002)

I've had 4 bad installs. 

First guy came in without a ladder (I live in a two story house), took a look at the trees and said "no line of sight" and left. I had to install the dish myself to prove that there was a line of sight. 

Next guy came just to run the cables and finish up the installation. He drilled from the outside through my wall and blew a huge hole in the plaster. This technique might work with drywall, but plaster tends to explode when drilled into from the outside. Next he couldnt' figure out how to make the screws for the wall plate stay (i.e. there was no plaster left to bite into). I had to fix all this myself. Finally he was not going to ground the dish because "he couldn't find a good ground." I demanded he ground it, so he did a half-assed job where he actually strung a wire from the dish to an electrical outlet. He didn't run it against the wall, he just went point-to-point through the air. I can now use the ground wire as a clothesline.

The third guy came to install my second dish for the added locals. He showed up without DishPro equipment and therefore could not complete the install (he wanted to swap out all my DishPro stuff with older non-DishPro components, but that was out of the question).

The third guy returned a week later with a DP34. He installed the dish without a ground (I didn't inspect it closely, so he got away before I found out), and installed the DP34 directly on the top surface of the roof!! He did this even though he could have put it under the eve which was no more than 2 feet away (but that would have involved him moving his ladder). I'm not sure if the DP34 was meant to be directly exposed to the elements (and piled upon by the Boston snowstorms) I guess I'll find out.

All four installs have been by people in shiny white trucks with dish logos splattered all over them.


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## marshalk (Jun 9, 2002)

A free install...you get what you pay for I guess...


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## zimm0who0net (Aug 27, 2002)

You're exactly right. I'd almost prefer it if they charged something and did the job right. 

FYI: I just had dish installation done at work to get the AT&T HITS feed. It was a 1.8M dish, but the work involved wasn't that much different than you would have in a residential EchoStar installation. In fact, due to the drop ceiling it was much easier to run the cabling than an Echostar installation. They did a beautiful installation, but they charged $1500 for the labor. 
-----

I guess the moral of the story is that I shouldn't complain about EchoStar's lousy "free" install. If I wanted it done right I should have ponied up the $1500 for a professional install. However, I might add that that they had to come back 4 times for what should have been 2 trips. The extra labor for doing the job right would have only been a few extra minutes and would have both saved them money (in the extra trips), and made a customer (who was seriously considering dumping this whole EchoStar thing) MUCH happier....


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## xgrep (Aug 15, 2002)

My only experience is with 6 installations, all done by me. They all got perfect signals (I use a satfinder to peak the dish), all were properly grounded, all were reliable and unobtrusive, and all cost ... my time. I agree, you get what you pay for.

x


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## RuhiA (Sep 3, 2002)

Thanks for the hints. It was a lengthy process (five hours for two receivers with 8ft drop of cable from the edge of the roof and splitting to right and left 12" apart to get into the two rooms).

Installer was DISH official installer but never activated 721 before. Once installation is finished he powered it up and got 92-94% signal strength on both 110 and 119. But once the unit completed the switch check gave an error. Couldn't recognize the quad. For both Sat 1 and 2 placed X in all boxes in the info page and asked for the installation to be rechecked. He verified dish allignment and quad by attaching and setting the 301. After four attempts to check switches, he placed the call for help. He's been told to install a single LNB first, set it for 119 and let it sit for 20 minutes and let it sit another 20 minutes. Nothing happened. few more calls and few more discussions, this time the remedy was intalling a dual LNB and do the same again. Well, that was the magic. It provided the setup window, started downloading system info and moved to the second set of unpacking, loading DishLinux, formatting the HD, verifying the HD routines and that was that. 

The manual doesn't say anything about this. Basically, according to what I've seen today, you cannot install 721 with quad unless you also have a dual LNB to set it up first and switch to Quad later. Also, there was no software update as the manual suggests. When I choose the sotware update from the menu, it says not available. The software version is L103. I thought it was supposed ot be 109. Overall, it works now and I'm going to let it do it's own thing at least overnight and start becoming critical. I'm impressed with the picture quality! 

Ruhi

PS. BTW, I had to ask for the grounding once I noticed he had no intention to do so. He said there was no place to ground (I live in an apartment at fourth floor). I suggested the railing which is embedded in concrete but he said it wouldn't help and they never install grounding on apartments. Also, it is definetely needed in places liek AZ but not here in southern CA. I asked him to put the block anyway and I said I could get an electrician will attach it to the power outlet. He installed a dual block for two lines but left the other one straight through. Otherwise, it is very nicely done; no fallen pieces, all cable is nicely secured both inside and outside, wall plates installed on both rooms, outside holes are sealed with clear silicone... I'm satisfied till next lightining storm


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## zimm0who0net (Aug 27, 2002)

I had a similar experience with my DP Twin LNBF and my 721. Couldn't make it work after numerous check switchs and even hard-resets. What DID work was unplugging the 721 for about 10 seconds (thus robbing the LNBF & integrated switches of power) checking all my cable connections, and then re-plugging everything back in. My theory is that the DishPro stuff can get "out-of-sync" if you're adding and removing connections (as you would in an installation). The only solution is to power down everything (including the LNBFs / switchs)....

P.S. If you've got another reciever attached you'll have to power down that one as well or else the LNBFs / switches will just receive power through it.


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## xgrep (Aug 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RuhiA _
> ... I'm satisfied till next lightining storm


Thanks for the great followup!

FYI, grounding isn't for lightning, but to protect humans in the event some source of current (such as a faulty receiver with a short in it) connects AC power to the antenna. That way, you just blow a fuse instead of killing someone who touches a "hot" dish.

x


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## RuhiA (Sep 3, 2002)

I already had my first event to call the technical support with the 721. 
I first set timers for a couple of programs for reminders and red circles appeared before the program title on the guide. Then, I proceeded to set PVR for other programs. It got stuck there and even erased the previously marked items. The first person at the technical help immediately transfered me to "advanced support". He knew the problem and suggested to take the SC out while the receiver is powered, wait 5-10 sec and reinsert it. It did some rebooting things and was back to normal working conditions. I could record multiple events.

Then, I took the opportunity to ask about the initial installation problem. His opinion was that 721 needs to be switch checked without attaching the satellite first and redo it after the connections are done.

In regards to recording consecutive recording of multiple programs issue which has been discussed here before, he says it happens because when a program finishes at say 13:00 the receiver shuts down and there is no time for the next recording to start at 13:00. His suggestion was program for the first one and edit the end time manually. Of course, this is assuming that both programs are in the same channel.

Ruhi


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## zimm0who0net (Aug 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by xgrep _
> * FYI, grounding isn't for lightning, but to protect humans in the event some source of current (such as a faulty receiver with a short in it) connects AC power to the antenna. That way, you just blow a fuse instead of killing someone who touches a "hot" dish. *


Actually I believe the LNBF and switches are electrically isolated from the dish itself, so grounding the dish won't protect you from the scenario you presented. However, along the same lines, if a hot wire were to come into physical contact with the Dish, grounding it would cause it to sink to ground, thus blowing the fuse, and making everything safe. (just as you lay out). For this reason it's a very good idea to ground every piece of conductive metal that's attached (or part of) your house. I remember putting up a plaster wall and having to actually ground the metal lathe to make code even though it gets completely sealed in plaster!
There's another good reason to ground you dish and that's static electricity. An ungrounded conductor can develop a significant charge (especially in dry climates or during a thunderstorm). Left ungrounded, that charge could potentially arc into the LNBF and cause damage. It could also arc into you while you're walking on your roof, and startle you enough to fall off. The electric charge alone may be enough to actually cause interference with the reception of the dish (albeit this seems pretty far-fetched).


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## xgrep (Aug 15, 2002)

> _Originally posted by zimm0who0net _
> Actually I believe the LNBF and switches are electrically isolated from the dish itself, so grounding the dish won't protect you from the scenario you presented.


You are entirely correct. The RG6 shield should be grounded as well as the dish.

Can any of you retailer/installers tell us how an installer can legally walk away from an improperly grounded installation? Isn't there some serious liability, here?

Thanks,

x


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