# What's Dish doing with San Francisco HD?



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

For people who don't live in the San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose DMA, none of this will matter. Nonetheless, you may find this informative about how cheap outweighs viewer interest.

Dish has just added one local channel to the four primary broadcast networks. Naturally, it makes sense to add either The CW affiliate or a PBS affiliate. Instead we got the MyNetworkTV affiliate, KRON 4, a station owned by Young Broadcasting. If you click on the link, you'll see Young owns a number of the big-4 affiliates in other markets, so it probably was a package deal. The fact that Young is much disliked in the Bay Area wouldn't enter into the picture. And, hey, at least it's a national network, of sorts and Charlie probably got it cheap.

But then came the shocker.

I just noticed in the EKB HD locals listing we have KICU 36 in test mode. KICU is an independent owned by Cox Enterprises along with the Fox affliliate KTVU 2. It has exactly [strike]two things[/strike] one thing going for it: [strike](1) it is the "flagship station for Oakland A's baseball"; (2)[/strike] it airs any primetime programming from Fox in lieu of KTVU if that station is pre-empting the network for local programming and any NBC programming when KNTV pre-empts for San Francisco Giants baseball. Otherwise, KICU runs a typical independent channel schedule of classic sitcoms, movies, talk shows, reality shows, and some kids shows on weekends. Beyond the 7 pm newscast in HD, KICU currently only carries 4:3 SD content.

If KICU is turned on before The CW and PBS, Cheap Charlie will lose a 20+ year customer as soon as my commitment runs out. I have been lobbying for Congress to change the rules so that the signal carriers aren't being charged by broadcast license holders. But if this moron is going to pay for me to get a lineup of old movies and TV series in SD using transponder bandwidth that could have been used for PBS HD or CW HD just because he can't pass up a tough negotiation win, I'm out. There are lots of independents in the Bay Area that he could get cheap and feed us SD using HD bandwidth. Is this what we're going to get so he can show those folks at PBS? And what's with not getting KBCW which is owned by CBS (which also owns our CBS affiliate KPIX) and delivers prime time The CW HD programming?

At some point, cheap doesn't get it. So charge me a buck more for locals with real HD. But don't deliver SD crap using up HD bandwidth.


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## bobl (Jan 17, 2004)

It's worse than you think! KICU, per your statement, no longer "has exactly two things going for it". I don't believe they carry Oakland A's games any longer. Comcast SportsNet California is now carrying 145 regular season games for the A's. If KICU is carrying any games at all it's a very small number and much less than in the past. I 'm not sure but I believe the other 17 A's games aren't televised locally although 1 or 2 may be on a national channel.


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## bmaigatter (Oct 1, 2008)

All A's games that are broadcast will be on Comcast SN California...which is not to say they will be on Dish (or DirecTV):

_"...there's still no agreement with DirecTV to carry the games. Also, contrary to earlier indications, it appears there's no agreement with Dish Network either..."_
www .athleticsnation.com/2009/3/27/812455/no-a-s-games-on-dishnetwor


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I corrected the Oakland A's error, which does make the possibility of KICU becoming the 6th Bay Area HD feed even worse. Imagine Dish advertising 6 HD locals without either The CW or PBS!

KQED 9 PBS has alot of HD programming and produces local HD programming. And KBCW 44 The CW has some Nielsen demo popular HD primetime programming as well as HD news at 10. Or you can watch an old sitcom filmed in 4:3 SD on KICU (I wonder if they'll offer it in stretch-o-vision to add insult to injury?).


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

phrelin said:


> For people who don't live in the San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose DMA, none of this will matter. Nonetheless, you may find this informative about how cheap outweighs viewer interest.
> 
> Dish has just added one local channel to the four primary broadcast networks. Naturally, it makes sense to add either The CW affiliate or a PBS affiliate. Instead we got the MyNetworkTV affiliate, KRON 4, a station owned by Young Broadcasting. If you click on the link, you'll see Young owns a number of the big-4 affiliates in other markets, so it probably was a package deal. The fact that Young is much disliked in the Bay Area wouldn't enter into the picture. And, hey, at least it's a national network, of sorts and Charlie probably got it cheap.
> 
> ...


Mytv is out of bussiness. KRON has RetroTV on 4.1. RetroTV has shows like Mcgiver, Emergency, Dick Van ****. Sounds better than the main channel.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

The big problem with PBS in the Bay Area is that there are 5 or 6 PBS stations, and all want to be included. There isn't transponder space for all of them, or even most of them, so until that somehow gets resolved, PBS is going to be a problem.


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## Doug E (Jul 6, 2002)

IIP said:


> The big problem with PBS in the Bay Area is that there are 5 or 6 PBS stations, and all want to be included. There isn't transponder space for all of them, or even most of them, so until that somehow gets resolved, PBS is going to be a problem.


If that is the case, then how did DirecTV obtain channel 9 (KQED) in HD without the having to deal with the other PBS stations?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Doug E said:


> If that is the case, then how did DirecTV obtain channel 9 (KQED) in HD without the having to deal with the other PBS stations?


KQED is the only one offering all the HD. One of the other's is now under the same Board of Directors as KQED. The problem that will face the signal providers is that sooner or later they'll all have to be in HD or die.

With that said, KQED HD could be provided by Dish. But apparently Dish would have to pay something for it and Cheap Charlie would rather provide us with two channels we don't want based on the basic principle that he needs to settle with those owners to get some of the big-4 in other DMA's. At some point at the last legal moment, he'll settle with PBS nationwide, he says.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

KICU appears on the main dishlist page only as a live SD channel and will be removed from the HD locals page. It's from one of the times I broke my self-made rule to not make additions there until the channel (or at least part of a market) goes live. I think the entry goes back to before the S.F. affiliate swaps, but I don't recall where news of the uplink came from as I don't see it in Tony's listlog archives.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

phrelin said:


> KQED is the only one offering all the HD. One of the other's is now under the same Board of Directors as KQED. The problem that will face the signal providers is that sooner or later they'll all have to be in HD or die.
> 
> With that said, KQED HD could be provided by Dish. But apparently Dish would have to pay something for it and Cheap Charlie would rather provide us with two channels we don't want based on the basic principle that he needs to settle with those owners to get some of the big-4 in other DMA's. At some point at the last legal moment, he'll settle with PBS nationwide, he says.


That channel is: KTEH which is in San Jose odly enough. There are too many PBS stations in this DMA IMHO.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

BobaBird said:


> KICU appears on the main dishlist page only as a live SD channel and will be removed from the HD locals page. It's from one of the times I broke my self-made rule to not make additions there until the channel (or at least part of a market) goes live. I think the entry goes back to before the S.F. affiliate swaps, but I don't recall where news of the uplink came from as I don't see it in Tony's listlog archives.


I wondered about that, but I don't remember it being there like KRON always was. But then, my memory isn't what it used to be, or it is as bad as it always was.:sure:

It wouldn't be a surprise if it were next. It's a Cox Enterprises station, another company that owns big-4 stations around the nation.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

phrelin said:


> For people who don't live in the San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose DMA, none of this will matter. Nonetheless, you may find this informative about how cheap outweighs viewer interest.
> 
> Dish has just added one local channel to the four primary broadcast networks. Naturally, it makes sense to add either The CW affiliate or a PBS affiliate. Instead we got the MyNetworkTV affiliate, KRON 4, a station owned by Young Broadcasting. If you click on the link, you'll see Young owns a number of the big-4 affiliates in other markets, so it probably was a package deal. The fact that Young is much disliked in the Bay Area wouldn't enter into the picture. And, hey, at least it's a national network, of sorts and Charlie probably got it cheap.
> 
> ...


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/30/MNEH16KET3.DTL


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Paul Secic said:


> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/30/MNEH16KET3.DTL


Thanks for the link, Paul. It's interesting that the story did not mention the fact that many for-profit local stations have experienced annual double digit revenue drops for the past five years, some now taking losses. If Northern California Public Broadcasting can stay in the black in the current fiscal year, the guy deserves his pay. If not, he deserves unemployment, or at least a retroactive major reduction.


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

Um, why are you so positive carrying KICU will prevent them from carrying the CW and PBS?

Be glad Charlie likes you enough to have more than the big 4 at all. 

And if you are waiting for PBS, you may be waiting a long time.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

HDRoberts said:


> Um, why are you so positive carrying KICU will prevent them from carrying the CW and PBS?


I don't think that. My bottom line concern is that the CW and PBS finish a package to market Dish Network. In fact, I would like KICU in HD on Friday as "Friday Night Lights" has been moved there because KNTV is carrying a Giant's v A's Preseason Game.



> Be glad Charlie likes you enough to have more than the big 4 at all.


KRON is virtually useless to me. More about Charlie in a minute.



> And if you are waiting for PBS, you may be waiting a long time.


I suspect Dish subscribers will have to wait until the legal deadline is reached.

About Charlie. Charlie's company, Echostar, is making it's moves (see the Press Release: Echostar Unveils World's First Slingloaded HD DVR For Cable). Unfortunately, Dish Network is stuck with Charlie's approach to providing channels to it's customers which is not a business similar to Echostar IMHO. Dish Network is selling content not technology so it needs to provide the basic content even if it has to charge $6 instead of $5.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

phrelin said:


> I don't think that. My bottom line concern is that the CW and PBS finish a package to market Dish Network. In fact, I would like KICU in HD on Friday as "Friday Night Lights" has been moved there because KNTV is carrying a Giant's v A's Preseason Game.
> 
> KRON is virtually useless to me. More about Charlie in a minute.
> 
> ...


What does CW have anything to do with the A's? COX owns KTVU & KICU. CBS channel 5 and KBCW. I'm confused!


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