# After Chat Thought (Post all Charlie Chat Comments HERE!)



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Here is the place to Discuss tonights Charlie Chat!

To make things easier please post all Charlie Chat thoughts in this thread! (Thank you!)

I thought this months chat sucked. I will ad my 2 cents tommorow.

Have fun!

Scott


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## toad57 (Apr 23, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> I thought this months chat sucked.


Aw, quit hedging... tell us how you really feel! :lol:


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## motjes2 (May 9, 2002)

This Chat as other previous CC had very little information. I am going to start looking into D*. The information from E* is not forthcoming. It is a shame that Charlie mentions HDnet and HDmovies with Mark Cuban in May or June and stated "these will be in by summer". Summer is here and will be gone by the time that he plans to deliver (Yet more empty promises). I am tired of these promises and this is why I will start looking at D* receivers but I will not switch yet until I can get an HD-Tivo. I hope that Tivo beats the 921, and I will jump ship the next minute and say goodbye to Charlie... I'll wait to see what upgrades he will have for Superdish but my guess is that it will not be great but who knows... I am willing to give him until 10/1 but any later than that I will not stay. He better have ESPN-HD by october 1, otherwise, I will look at this in a very negative way.

Here is what D* has that E* does not have:

MLB out market packgage
NLF Ticket
Yes Network

ESPN-HD
HDNET
HDMovies

All in one Dish solution. This is what Charlie has: 

HDNET
HDMovies

SuperDish...who knows how much???

In the meantime he still charges 7.99 for discoveryHD. While D* has a package for $10.99.

I think it is time to leave...


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Here is the place to Discuss tonights Charlie Chat!
> 
> To make things easier please post all Charlie Chat thoughts in this thread! (Thank you!)
> 
> ...


Just like the previous three !


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The only thing new I saw was what the actual SuperDish is going to look like. Anybody record the chat able to get that picture on the internet?


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## csschrot (May 2, 2003)

I record it on my 501. I personally think that it was a waste of time. I found it interesting at they are testing the 105 slot and that was suppose to be the HD slot. Tonight Charlie was talking about 121 sot being HD and that nothing was happening until the start of Oct.


I truely don't know what to think.


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## DmitriA (Aug 6, 2002)

I fell off my couch in disbelief when I saw Charlie look at the camera and with a straight face say that Dish has the best PVRs in the business!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I thought 121 was going to be HD and international in the first place and that 105 and 121 both were going to be used for locals. Supposed to be a lot more information next month and then the month after that (Oct.) is going to the be tech chat so I would expect a bit more information the next few months. All the information tends to all come out at once.


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## Marcus S (Apr 23, 2002)

I really don't know where this company thinks their headed. I don't consider anyone on this forum stupid, it is what it is. Charlie's greed factor could possibly keep them #2. No annocements = more delays. Expect new equipment in Jan. No discussion on justified DVR fee's. But then this is E*'s claim to fame since 97.


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## music_beans (Mar 21, 2003)

Charlie never even mentioned that half of the new sattelite is Telstar 13!


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I was disappointed too, but honestly I can see they dont want to put up a bunch of HD channels on the side slots only too have to transition them to Superdish in a few months/ Besides the 921 isnt available yet and given their track record will not be available intill spring, heck charlie doesnt have one yet. I still think 61.5 will be sold or leased, its a matter of the price

They did say their DVR fee will be less than the competition, I suppose that maxes it out at $4.99 per account if they call D competition.

If I keep E I will upgrade to the superdish for better rainfade resistance, this summer has had tons of acquiring sat please wait with daily storms. With signal strength of 120 jen is unhappy. We must keep the TV addict happy.

Did anyone try and slip the DVR issue by the screeners? I quit trying they dont let people who complain on the air. My account is probably marked with a skull and crossbones.


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## Marcus S (Apr 23, 2002)

I think your talking about AM sat. Programming not availble until next year. Lifetime *D DVR charge is what it is, where is E*, pay more? Sure they monitor this forum, to bad they do not actually listen.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

This chat was a new low in suckage. I cannot believe the producer telling Scott that they would address the concerns of the people here and that we would be happy. What bunk.

I now have very serious doubts about the 921 ever working well and it almost certainly will not be available before Jan '04. The HD strategy of the "HD Leader" is in a shambles. There is stuff out there that E* is not showing and they keep making empty promises about programming info coming next month and it never comes. They are making us pay for the superdish. They are adding a fee to the 921. What the heck happened?


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Yet another boring chat, I can't really say I'm disappointed in the chat, because I never expected anything of it to begin with. I do like how Charlie never mentioned the DVR fee until near the end of the chat, and only did so because it was the lead out of a question.


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## Marcus S (Apr 23, 2002)

Enjoy! Just turn it in to August subscriber information, w/big brea*!! No information here. :icon_lame

-or- welcome to old fart central, that remembers a different E*.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> I thought this months chat sucked.


That is exactly how I feel. Why did they waste so much time talking to a second rate actor from a third rate channel when they could have been answering customer's calls? I think they need to can the "guest stars" and get back to basics --- ANSWER CUSTOMER'S QUESTIONS!


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2003)

Charlie announced that he will announce something else in the September chat regarding HD. That's all he said.

My guess is that in the next chat he will announce exciting new HDTV hardware and programming that will be delivered at a future date. You may have guessed it - that date will be announced at some future date.


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

What concerned me the most was the possibillity of looseing distant nets.

Was it only people who were grandfathered and recvd waivers or is it all distant nets.

I have been searching the web tring to find info on the appeal tah charlie mentioned but could not find it.

Screwy things have been happening on the address broker.

Areas that used to qualify like the keys I under stand because of the repeaters but some one on the forum lives in Hiawasee GA it was a area that qualified befor the court ruling and now it doesnt.

Is there any rhyme or reason for that???

Has anyone else that does not fall under the grand father clause found out there area that used to qualify with out waivers now does not qualify.???


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I wonder if they decided AMC-2 would not work with SuperDish after testing. Perhaps that is why they said HD at 121 and showed the 121 version of SuperDish. AMC-2 (http://www.ses-americom.com/satellites/amc-2.html) is only 60 watts per transponder, half of what E9 is going to put out. The signal on AMC-2 may be too weak to be supported by SuperDish, hence the delay of the HD launch another month.


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## rcbridge (Oct 31, 2002)

Yes another dissapointing chat, we should be accustomed to it by now.
Those of us who are HD customers especially, more delays, new equipment to buy or a new commitment.
I did notice for the first time he mentioned the HD networks in negotiation that is not the norm.
He is fully aware that our options are limited except for a few markets, so we can be strung along.
When and if my local cable company gets there act together I will give serious consideration about switching, the use of DVR in a set top box is coming, I don't know when they will be deployed but they are being developed as I write this.

I will probably tune in next month but I wont keep my hopes very high. :nono:


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Wasn't it nice that the phones went down right before he slipped in the very last bit about DVR fee.

Just like when congress votes in a pay raise the last thing right before the end of their midnight session.


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

What's happening on C-band? I've heard that there is a lot of HD available there. I still have a bud in my yard and could easily switch back. 

I want HD! SD sucks after you have seen HD. I'm sure Charlie is watching HD, perhaps on *d*. 

I should have never switched to Dish. Charlie gave me a free upgrade to the Dish 500, so I switched. At the time it seemed to good to be true, and in retrospect it was. 

I'm growing old waiting for *e* to decide what they are going to do about HD. Every chat is "next month there will be a lot of HD stuff" Those who watch the chat tonight heard that there will be a lot of HD info at the next Chat, programing, equipment, etc.. Why not tonight? 

Let me see. The CEO of the company doesn't know what is happening in 30 days? He wouldn't be running too many companies for me.

Anyway, If there isn't more information with concrete dates next month, I'm gone (I'm serious Charlie). *d* already has HD. 

The key words to listen for are:

We are in negotiation with:

We don't have the Capacity:


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

I may be wrong but didn't Charlie say they were targeting Oct 1 for the start of HDNet(s) channels. 

If so, how can subscribers get them unless they are first put HDNets on 61/148 at least until the superdish/105 (or 121?) equipment are shipped and installed? The whole thing seems like something in early development and not really ready for use by the subscribers. 

Dish justs does not seem to have a real game plan. Just promises of someting in the future - month after month. I have been with Dish over 7 years, in all that time I believed Dish had a plan - even if there were delays in getting various elements of the plan going. I this time it seems the people at Echostar just do not seem to be on the same page. 

This months CC was IMO worthless to most customers. If next months CC is the same I thing I too will lose faith in Dish.


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

Jerry 42 said:


> This months CC was IMO worthless to most customers. If next months CC is the same I thing I too will lose faith in Dish.


Most customers don't want HD TV right now. They don't even know what it is. In the very near future they will. I know that, You know that, and I think Charlie knows that. Right now he has 8 or 9 million people who don't want, or even know what HDTV is.

The key works to listen for are:

We are in negotiations with:

We don't have the capacity:


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

*d* I have a full house. What do you have? *e* I have a pair of aces. 

You lose!


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> I thought this months chat sucked.


Scott, I think you're being kind.

First of all, dump your source at Dish. They fed you a total bunch of garbage for last months Tech Chat and tonights Charlie Chat about how happy the HD customers would be. More of the same, tune in next month for some exciting announcements, we've heard that before.

Is Dish changing the plans for 105 and 121? Last month they said that 105 was mainly HD and 121 LIL and international. Tonight, not one single mention of 105 for HD and Charlie stated that they needed to get Echostar 9 up and operational at 121 in order to expand their HD programming, or did I hear him wrong?

I also liked the part where Charlie said that they're DVR feed was the cheapest out there. Yep $4.98 for the 510 vs $4.99 for DirecTIVO, but he fails to mention his is per receiver vs. D* where it's per account.

Also, did I miss a big DirecTV price increase recently that covered the NFL Sunday Tickect contract? According to Charlie, DirecTV has to pass the increased cost for Sunday Ticket to all their customers, or is that just more of his garbage coming out of his mouth?

I made the switch from D* to E* 28 months ago since I thought they were the more consumer friendly company, it looks like things have change for the worst in a big way.

I've waited this long I guess I'll give Charlie and his gang of idiots to get their plan together before making the final decision on switching back to D*.


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## Peluso (Sep 11, 2002)

Unfortunately i'm going to visit family for the next week, so i wont be able to see this thread develop.  Still I think that one thing is plainly clear. HDTV is a very small amount of the business and therefore it's got a small amount of Charlie mind share. 

I was thinking that I don't know what Echostar was like in the early days. I don't know if Charlie accepted hardball questions, or if information was freely available. It could be that Echostar has always acted like a big corporate entity, and the expectations of this group have always been disappointed.

After I called in last night, i realized one thing. Echostar customer service and communications are built around the 'average user' and Charlie chat in it's current iteration is mostly for PR sake. It's to promote the image of the involved CEO rather than the actuality of a CEO who is involved in the day to day operations concerning the future of the company. 

Considering communications and chat I would rethink my corporate philosophy. If you are going to communicate to your customers as a matter of policy, then it should be done regularly and in detail. If you don't know something, or haven't decided. It should be stated that it isn't known. It doesn't all have to be crammed on a Charlie chat, it can be posted in a user area. If the 921 isn't done yet, then it should be communicated that it isn't done, and what the hopes are for realistic launch expectations as well as what the current hold up is. 

If you don't want to be completely open with any and all product and service information, then I would suggest that Echostar move to the old IBM strategy of not acknowledging products until the release date. It seems to be with the HDTV team at Tivo are doing.

Considering the future of the company, I would be highly involved with HDTV. (This is assuming Charlie doesn't see the future of the company as being bought out by another organization) Eventually everything is going to move to HDTV in the long term, and in the short term, HD is going to bring in the big dollar spenders.  Not just for equipment but also for packages and special events that are in HD. The 811 or some future variant of it will be the base receiver. It stands to reason that no matter what philosophy you follow more consideration should be paid, and more focus on HD should be seen. 

At the same time, i ask myself and everyone reading this... Is this already happening? We know of the Superdish technology. We know Charlie is gong to sell HD sets with receivers. We know that a 921 HDTV PVR is in development. We know that Charlie has a few more stations planned, common sense tells us that we will have more than HDnet and HDnet movies. 

To sum up my questions... 

Why isn't there more HD information?

Is there enough and are my expectations too high considering the current state of the company (99% SD)?

Is the Dish communication policy worse or the same as it had been in the past?

These are just my thoughts early one morning after Charlie chat.  I hope I didn't ramble on too much. I'll see you on Friday to add my thoughts to your comments. Happy week to you all!!!


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## wmayo (Dec 1, 2002)

Well, the chat was a bunch of crock, and I also am very angry. I with others feel strongly betrayed by Charlie with empty, false promises over and over that were very specific - HDNet during summer, ESPNHD announced as if they were on the cusp, and well, so more more.

We've got to realize one thing, though. We are a tempest in a teacup. Think about it: Let's say 5% of E* customers have HD, let's say of approx. 150,000 viewers 7-8% are on this board or the newsgroups. Do you really think 10,000 of 3 million are gonna have much impact? (Somebody correct me on the correct # of E* customers). I just don't think they care that much based on the numbers. They'll do what they want in "their" due time. My cable company says it will be "several *years*" before they get ANY HD on. I guess that's their due time/schedule.

Well, it's only 6-7 weeks until HDNet and HDNet movies. I expect they'll have the other logos shown in HD by Oct. 15 or the end of the month. It is severely exasperating that this took 3 months longer than it should have!! I can't believe we're gonna miss so much football season on ESPNHD!!!! But if I switch over now, by the time I get D* setup, it will be less than a month, and I ain't pulling the plug that close to the real possible event.

And Scott, my sources and your sources seem to be pulling our chains. But thanks for your zeal and advocacy!


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Who else thinks Scotts SOURCE fed him intentional disinformation so as to defuse the DVR bomb?

That is stop us all from trying to sneak a fee call by the screeners? Then wait to the end to mention it after poulling the plug on the phone system? Way too convenient

What about no fee on the 501, 508, or 721 AT THIS TIME?

E totally lost there way while working on the merger They should of assigned a group to brainstorm future plans if the merger failed. Charlie isnt the same person he used to be, things arent looking good, and the quality trashing E has taken here may damage the long term friendship between E and the site about beta testing new software


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2003)

I was happy that Charlie Boy said Super Dish will be available around October 1. I was even more happy when he said, I thought, that the 121 satellite would have HD programming. I don't think I could see the 105 slot due to trees. So, I remain a happy camper.


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## bishoptf (Jul 29, 2003)

Well that pretty much did it for me, another "string the customer along" chat. I just wonder how on earth Charlie has become so clueless. There is know way that their PVR, sorry DVR, software is even close to TIVO. BTW, Charlie referred to their cheaper cost by referencing a standalone TIVO receiver subscription at $12.95/mo. What a joke, hey Charlie the Direct Tivo is 4.99/month per household not per reciever. 

I have been waiting along time for the 921, but after the last chat that stated it was built on the 721 chipset and now that Charlie is so proud that they are going to charge me for the software, I will be wiating for the HD TIVO. Dish may trully have more bandwidth for HD but it is now clear that the leader in HD is not leading anymore....


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

wmayo said:


> Well, it's only 6-7 weeks until HDNet and HDNet movies. I expect they'll have the other logos shown in HD by Oct. 15 or the end of the month. It is severely exasperating that this took 3 months longer than it should have!! I can't believe we're gonna miss so much football season on ESPNHD!!!! But if I switch over now, by the time I get D* setup, it will be less than a month, and I ain't pulling the plug that close to the real possible event.
> 
> And Scott, my sources and your sources seem to be pulling our chains. But thanks for your zeal and advocacy!


I don't remember Charlie saying a specific date, all he mentioned was October, but did he say what year?  I only say that because Charlie himself used that line on his engineering staff when they said the 721 interactive stuff would be out in October, Charlie asked what year.

Anyway, so they finally announce it for October, how long after they announce it will it take to get a SuperDish installed? I'd guess you'd need to add a couple of more weeks onto that date. So my guess is that you could be looking at middle of November before being able to actually watch any new HD programming.

As for ESPN-HD, why is Charlie still in negotiations on it? Hell, even Comcast worked out a deal with Disney, ESPN-HD better be available on day 1 of the new HD package or they'll be a bunch of folks looking for Charlie's skin.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Mike123abc said:


> I wonder if they decided AMC-2 would not work with SuperDish after testing. Perhaps that is why they said HD at 121 and showed the 121 version of SuperDish. AMC-2 (http://www.ses-americom.com/satellites/amc-2.html) is only 60 watts per transponder, half of what E9 is going to put out. The signal on AMC-2 may be too weak to be supported by SuperDish, hence the delay of the HD launch another month.


This is uncanny, this is exactly what I was thinking too, sooooooo often we seam to think the same way, I guess GREAT minds think a like  . It appears we might have a switch, future International channel additions going to 105, once AMC15 is launched, with new locals and HD now going to 121 like you said.

As everyone else, I felt this chat sucked, maybe and this is a BIG maby, we will finally get more details next chat, kind of think ATHD will be announced next chat for what Charlie hinted at a October 1 start date. As far as Charlie addressing are concerns and we would be happy with this chat, I guess the joke was on us  . I also agree that the Charlie chat should go back to basics, get rid of the guest and use the time for more questions.


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## Jeraden (Aug 12, 2003)

I think a lot of you have unreasonable expectations for Charlie Chats. Everyone that visits here reguarly seems to already know the inside scoop on most things. The people watching the Charlie Chats are the average customer who don't frequenty these boards and are in the dark about most things. To them, the stuff revealed on the Charlie Chats is brand new information whereas to you its old info that everyone already knows about. This was only the 2nd Charlie Chat I watched, so I don't know if he rehashes the same topics all the time or not, but I don't think a lot of typical customers watch them religiously anyways.

I just found this forum after watching last nights chat when I was doing a search for some additional information. This was the first I ever heard about Superdish, or a new satellite launch, and several other things. For me, it was an informative show - other than the half hour they devoted to that worthless guest - HA!

The information I got was Superdish would be available starting in October, along with the new HDTV channels and new local markets (which would only be available once you get the Superdish). He mentioned there will be a promotion to get it for current customers. New receivers will be rolling out shortly, with the 921 coming out by the end of the year, although you could tell on the show he did not know a firm date on it. The DVR fee would be $4.99 if you don't have the Everything Pack. 

I read a couple posts where people are outraged that its per-receiver. I don't recall him mentioning that, but even if its true, I can't really see why someone would need 2 receivers with DVR capability, at least from my stand-point. If you can record off 2 tuners on a single unit, why would you even need a second one? I'm sure there are some situations where it would be nice, but I'd have to image over 99% of the people would have no need for it on 2 devices. I have a 501 now and I'd like 2 tuners, but there is still only 1 room where I do my tv watching on.

I really don't see what other information there was to give, as he seemed to hit upon all the upcoming changes and news. It seems you are all disappointed he didn't tell you anything you didn't already know, however you all seem to know everything already since you have a lot of inside information! Next month he said they would focus on HDTV, which a lot of you seem interested in, so I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about there either. Sure, its nice to know things ahead of time, but he already said things won't be available till October anyways, so why not wait until closer to the release date to review what will be available.

The only question I'd like to see answered is exactly what features the new DVR units will have. But I can appreciate that he wouldn't want to reveal them until the unit is available for competitive reasons.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Personally, I don;t have aproblem with the guests in theory but to let them go on and on for 15 or 20 minutes is crazy. Have a few quick questions, spend 5 minutes, show their little clip show and move on to the next bunch of misinformation.


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

While I didn't like the answers, I felt that Charlie answered questions honestly. I did not expect him to make any firm statements regarding HDTV. The satellite was just launched 4 days prior to the show and the satellite must be tested. How much more positive could it have been?

What if Charlie said "On Oct 1 the package cost $$ and the hardware will cost $$" and then they have some sort of issue with the bird, receiver or combination and have to regroup and switch to another plan? You can't expect them to sell anything until they know it works with the recently launched bird. I felt he tried his best to answer many of the concerns posted on this message board and I feel that they are listening. 

Due to the fact that I will be throwing away my entire investment (other than the cabling) in order to switch to HDTV, I am evaluating all of my Satellite options. I think Charlie understands this and tried to alleviate the cost concerns by indicating there will be some deals. I feel that I heard enough last night to keep from switching until the September broadcast. 

Charlie did confirm that the 921 appears to be out of an acceptable price range with the dvr fee. If the 921 didn't have a dvr fee, I would have gladly paid $999 for it if it included the SuperDish and had no dvr Fee. From past experiences all of the dvr receivers already have a $4.99 monthly fee if you expect it to last more than the warranty period. Why don't they throw in a free Premium Extended Warranty into the dvr fee?


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## cbusbee (Apr 20, 2002)

I was very disappointed that no deninitive HD programming information was conveyed. I expected that we would get ESPN-HD and the HD-net channels before Sept 1. Boy was I wrong. Didn't Charlie say in the June chat that the July chat was going to be the HD roll-out. All we got was general information. And then the same thing this month. 

This company seems to lack in the planning and execution areas. After listening to the last 4 chats or so, I know I wouldn't invest in a company like this. Lack of execution or keeping one's promises. I wonder if they hit their earnings targets? 

Charlie needs to add ESPN-HD now. He has the capacity. His customers want it. His competion has it. The big box stores are selling it, and only his competitor can fill that need now. Bad business decision.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2003)

Sorry but it amazes me how Charlie is stringing you along. Go back and read the comments from last month's "HD Tech Chat". Everyone said "well, maybe he will have more information in nex month's chat". Now it's next month and once again Charlie's saying he'll have more info in next month's HD chat. What about last month's HD chat? What makes the Dish subs actually think anything will be announced next month?

Here's my prediction...Next month Charlie will announce...wait until the October Tech Chat for more information.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I just visited my relatives in Mena Arkansas. Were they live it is in the boondocks, surrounded by mountians . This is rural America , this is Dish country. EVERYBODY in this area has DISH. These rural areas are the backbone of Dish's subscriptions. They depend on Dish for their locals and any information from the outside world. THey get maybe one station over the air CBS from Fort Smith. Rural people like this are just happy to be able to get their locals and any outside channels for the first time. Yes they now have Cox Cable in many areas of Mena (population 5376 people) but it still doesn't go to the smaller areas of Hatfield in some places. These people do not care about HDTV.

I think that Charlie doesn't think that the return on investment in Hdtv will be worth it right now. Unfortunately Cable has a chance to really make headway on Hdtv while Charlie sits and talks to washed up actors on his" Charlie Strings America Along Chats." 

I think Charlie needs to fire his entire engineering staff if they can't get these updates out on software and get firm dates on their receivers release. It is pretty bad when even Charlie makes fun of how long it takes for the engineers to release these things. 

These contracts with ESPN should have been up and running by Sept. so people could watch the fall games. What's the hold up? And while I think about it ,didn't the tech geeks from last tech chat say that the 121 slot was for international channels and the 105 sat was for hdtv and more locals? Now there is no mention of 105 and everything is on 121 according to Charlie.

Dish looks more and more disorganized and it is funny to me how they are doing so well on Wallstreet and is still making market share increases. Of course the average customer for now is not into Hdtv so that might be Charlies lifeboat for now. 

Of course I am STILL WAITING for my 721 updated promised in March then at the end of August and now promised for October!!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Timmy said:


> I was happy that Charlie Boy said Super Dish will be available around October 1. I was even more happy when he said, I thought, that the 121 satellite would have HD programming. I don't think I could see the 105 slot due to trees. So, I remain a happy camper.


Maybe he ment 105, but made a "verbal error" when said 121?  

I guess we ll wait and see....


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## JMikeF (May 2, 2003)

> HDTV is a very small amount of the business and therefore it's got a small amount of Charlie mind share.


The reason I invested major coin with Dish was that I was lead to believe via Dish promotions that Dish would be on the cutting edge of HDTV delivery. $8 a month for Discovery HD is no longer cutting edge.

I'm glad I decided to watch a movie instead of listening to the Charlie Crap.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

Did anyone welcome Jeraden to the forums? Welcome!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Jeraden - Welcome to DBSTalk...
Good post - i, kinda, agree with all you said (more then less anyhow) 

DTV - hehe - always such a negativity 
But what else one can expect from the "guest" with such a Nickname 
On the different note - of course, more likely, there won't be FIRM, DEFINATE announcements on September chat...
More likely it will be just another Chat, with "more then usually" information about HDTV and it's technology...
However - some "things' might get announced though


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Pete K. said:


> Did anyone welcome Jeraden to the forums? Welcome!


I did (just below you) :sure:


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## razorbackfan (Aug 18, 2002)

I enjoy the Charlie Chats, even though I already know more information from reading this board that I will get from those chats. I think the Charlie Chats are geared for the average E* sub, the one who gets the AT50 and is happy with that. The vast majority of E* subs don't care what satellite carries what, or anything about HDTV. They want the package their local cable system carries plus their locals for a cheaper price. Does D* have a chat with the owner of its company? For a future tech chat I would love a tour of their facility. I enjoyed Gunnys guest spot and Mail Call is one of my favorite shows. Too bad the phones went out, I tried to get in with the answer for that bomber jacket.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

I enjoy 'em chats also BTW  Be "some" somewhat better or worse then others


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

I loved it when Charlie said, "If you bought a receiver in the last 2 or so years, it has the interactive feature. Then a few minutes later the question about when the 721 was going to get the dish interactive service (a receiver just over a year old), then the system guy in the background gives an Oct date, and Charlie says October of what year... Classic.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Jeraden said:


> I think a lot of you have unreasonable expectations for Charlie Chats. Everyone that visits here reguarly seems to already know the inside scoop on most things.


That is the problem. There are beginning to be many instances where there is no scoop.

Take the DVR510 for example. Most people only heard about this receiver and the per receiver DVR fees the moment Echostar made it public.

Many of the people on this forum helped to get Echostar where it is today. Many of those people loved to deal with a company that was forthright about their plans. Now, those plans are guarded better than Fort Knox. And it is leaving many people here scratching their heads.

What is even more scary is that some sources within Echostar seem to be releasing incorrect information. Or that some of the information is so grey-area in definition that it can be interepreted a thousand ways. That is upsetting to many people here.

There is a difference between being forthright, being tight-lipped, and being deceptive. And some people here are trying to understand which direction Echostar is now taking.


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

csschrot said:


> I record it on my 501. I personally think that it was a waste of time. I found it interesting at they are testing the 105 slot and that was suppose to be the HD slot. Tonight Charlie was talking about 121 sot being HD and that nothing was happening until the start of Oct.
> 
> I truely don't know what to think.


I'm thinking that the sat currently at 105 isn't working as optimally as they would like, so they are at least momentarily changing their minds, again...why else would that have just slipped out.

We knew the sat at 105 is old, lower powered, and not optimized for the use it will be given.

Yet another item that they just changed when it suited them, without any explanation as to why. But then, if they were to tell us why, they would probably have to tell their stockholders why.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

While there wasn't anything new last night for any of us, most of the information talked about isn't widely known to the viewing public. We're like rabid dogs here, desparately searching for any scraps of new info to talk about, blast, complain about, etc. 

Personally I keep coming back to the fact that I would rather watch a Charlie Chat that gives little to no useful new information to us, than be with a company that doesn't even attempt to talk to their customers AT ALL EVER about anything that's going on. 

I'll keep tuning in and watching every month because I for one appreciate the attempt, even if it could certainly be done better.

(OK, my flame suit is now on)


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

[sarcasm mode on]
I so much more enjoyed that chat by what's his name again (I keep forgetting who puts these things on) on DirecTv that I watch ever month. They are so much more informative than anything I have seen on a Charlie Chat. They really need to replace Charlie on these things with someone higher up in the company, maybe someone who really cares, possibly find someone with more of a fincancial stake in the company so that he might be more informed on things.[/sarcasm mode off]
Why do you people even watch this thing every month. Every month it is the same thing, the Chat takes place and then everyone jumps in here and rips Charlie and his staff a new one. The chats are not designed for you and me. They are designed for the "typical" Dish Network subscriber. Most subs out there have no idea what plans Dish has for HDTV (much less what HDTV channels even exist), what new receivers are on the way, what satellites have been launched recently, what satellite lease contracts have been signed, nor what programming contracts are done or under discussion. That is who the chats are aimed at. Get used to it.


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

Greg Bimson said:


> That is the problem. There are beginning to be many instances where there is no scoop.
> 
> Take the DVR510 for example. Most people only heard about this receiver and the per receiver DVR fees the moment Echostar made it public.
> 
> ...


I don't think they are intentionally releasing bad information as much as they are trying to skirt the SEC disclosure rules while still keeping us as informed as possible. They can't just come out and say "AMC-2 sucks, so we have to move HD programming to 121 and hold off on new international programming for a while". If they did that, Americom and maybe Dish would have to disclose that information, which isn't in the best interest of their stock price.

As for the chats, everyone is correct, they aren't aimed at us, they are aimed at Joe Sixpack who comes home and watches TV, not surfs the internet for more info on their TV provider. However, how many of those people actually watch the chats? I'd bet there were more of us than the actual target audience. They need to either tweak the information disclosed to fit those who watch, or better tweak the content to those they want to watch, or just not do "Charlie Chat" programs any more. The Tech Chats are usually halfway decent, showing off new products, etc, but the Charlie Chats for almost the last year have been a complete waste of time.

Just my humble opinion.

Jeff


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Mark, sorry, I didn't mean to steal some of the flames, but I agree 100%. I was writing the above while you were posting your remarks.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Rking,

If you are so against watching Charlie Chat's and are happy with your DirecTV, they why in ever post about the Charlie Chat must you make some comment which does nothing more then pours more fuel on the fire?

Go enjoy your DirecTV.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Scott... I think you forgot to turn on the sarcasm mode on that last one.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Nah Tuesday after a Chat is always sarcasm day. :lol:


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## dankimjohn (Apr 27, 2002)

Does anyone know the answer to last nights trivia question? I think it was what military weapon is still used today and Charlie's hint was since 1925.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Rking,
> 
> If you are so against watching Charlie Chat's and are happy with your DirecTV, they why in ever post about the Charlie Chat must you make some comment which does nothing more then pours more fuel on the fire?
> 
> Go enjoy your DirecTV.


Scott,

I think we need more posts like Richard's to balance the OVER-HYPED posts that you put make. Sometimes it *looks* like you are so deep in DISH's grip that you can't see reality any more. I, for one, would really like to see more balance at DBSTalk. Stop being such a cheerleader for DISH and look at things the way they REALLY are.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Bill sometime I wonder if YOU can read as well.

Go read my post about last nights chat.

Do you see any pom poms there?


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## GFloyd (Jun 3, 2003)

Bill R said:


> Scott,
> Stop being such a cheerleader for DISH and look at things the way they REALLY are.


Scott Greczkowski wrote



> I thought this months chat sucked.


{sarcasam} Goooo Team .... {/sarcasam}


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

I think the chats are a bit of a catch-22. They are geared to the "regular" customers, not the diehards who come here. But I didn't even know the chats existed until I started coming to this site. So how many "regular" customers actually watch?

Dennis


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

No Scott, I didn't see any pom poms in those posts and I agreed with you, the chat was very poor. 

I was talking about a lot of the OTHER posts you make and how you HYPE things (like the Charlie Chat and the 721 software and a lot of other things). I know that your information comes from a contact at DISH but you have been VERY WRONG on dates and things like stability of software and a lot of other issues. I really do think that sometimes you see things through "dish colored glasses" and not the way others (like Richard and many others) see things or how things really are for MOST DISH customers.

It is your board you can do anything you like. I just think that it needs more balance.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2003)

1. Charlie announced that we are at the "end of summer"......HDNET and HDNET MOVIES coming by the end of summer on DishNetwork....hmmm. sounds like false advertisement to me!

2. HDNET and HDNET movies coming in October now....minus ESPNHD...still in negotiations.

3. No mention of the 811....because if I want to purchase an HD receiver do you think I'll buy the 6000, NOW?

4. Where is the best place to look to talk with my feet because I'm moving on.....D* has what I want now, with a big line of receivers to choose from, but I didn't want to switch out all my equip....but if I'm looking at Xmas before I'll be able to use my 1yrOld HDTV....then I'm moving on....help me please.

Thanks!


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Bill,

I am just one person and I speak for myself. I understand people don't always agree with my posts and that what makes this place great.

The other day you were complaining about the poll I posted asking if people liked their 721's, all's you did was ***** about it (in a few posts) yet I never saw you post a poll that you would consider more fair and balanced, even though you and everyone else has the power to post polls.

I don't consider myself a pompom waiver, I seem to be blasting Dish Network more lately then praising them. I am not taking sides with any company I just call things as I see them. I do not care if my comments make any company happy or piss them off, again I am just calling things as I see them.

I will not edit my thoughts to make my feelings more balanced twards eaither company, as that would not be fair to myself or any of the members who want to here the unbiased truth (as I see it of course)

To ask me to change my wirting to be more balanced is crazy (I know you did not ask me to change my writing) but you keep saying you want us to be more balanced.

I am not a statistician, I am not a satellite guru, I am just one person expressing my opinions, just as you are yours. Instead of complaining about my posts why not be constructive and post your thoughts or polls to help balance out my posts. Doing that will make the place better for all.


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## Timco (Jun 7, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Bill,
> I am not a statistician, I am not a satellite guru, I am just one person expressing my opinions, just as you are yours. Instead of complaining about my posts why not be constructive and post your thoughts or polls to help balance out my posts. Doing that will make the place better for all.


 :biggthump


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Based on last nights chat I sent in the following questions to Dish today:

*
Question: Can you please clearify something. On the July Tech Chat we were told that there would be two SuperDish configs, one for 105/110/119, which would cover HD channels and one for 121/110/119 which would be for international channels.

On last nights Charlie Chat Charlie said that Dish needed to get Echostar 9 online at 121 before Dish could add new HD programming, which would imply that 105 would NOT be used for HD programming, can you please clearify?

Also, once SuperDish goes online with the new HD programming, would the current programming that's on 61.5 and 148 be mirrored on one of the SuperDish slots or would we also need to keep a 61.5/148 dish around for HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, etc? I need to know since based on some info provided on the DBSForum web site it was said if I need access to all four slots I'd have a problem with my Dish 6000 until a DishPro 4:4 switch would be out which isn't schedule until sometime in 2004.

*

The response I just got back from Dish:

_
Thank you for your email correspondence. Currently the information you are requesting is not available.

Sincerely

Mark H.

Technical Support_

Doesn't that response give you a warm fuzzy feeling that Dish knows what their doing, NOT!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Bill..... 

I am not now nor have I ever been an owner of a DirecTv system. I suspect you may have missed my sarcasm on/off comment. My remark was aimed at all the negative crap that floats here after every Charlie Chat. If you see any pom pom waving then I must be deficient in the ability to recognize such.


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## markh (Mar 24, 2002)

I have a couple friends who are just average customers of Dish. Neither of them have a problem with the way Dish is run or go to internet sites to learn more about DBS. As far as they know everything is hunky-dory. I don't think either of them has ever watched a chat, either. From the perspective of that average guy, none of the stuff that gets debated endlessly here matters to them.

"I do not nor have I ever owned a DirecTV system". Are you running for office, Rking?  

Speaking of D*, They never announce anything until it happens, maybe E* should consider the same. They get their butts flamed everytime they leak anything. Nah, it's too much fun reading all the flames.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I would suggest that you post the "inside scoop" as such and reserve observations, opinion and interpretation for another message. This should help distance you from the disinformation. Obviously the carefully placed admonitions about the source aren't cutting it.

I've been on the business end of something like this and I didn't appreciate the false attributions either. Posting my comments in separate messages was a big help.


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## motjes2 (May 9, 2002)

Bill R said:


> No Scott, I didn't see any pom poms in those posts and I agreed with you, the chat was very poor.
> 
> I was talking about a lot of the OTHER posts you make and how you HYPE things (like the Charlie Chat and the 721 software and a lot of other things). I know that your information comes from a contact at DISH but you have been VERY WRONG on dates and things like stability of software and a lot of other issues. I really do think that sometimes you see things through "dish colored glasses" and not the way others (like Richard and many others) see things or how things really are for MOST DISH customers.
> 
> It is your board you can do anything you like. I just think that it needs more balance.


I do not think we can blame Scott for the incorrect information. I appreciate Scott's comments (right or wrong) because it gives me more insight information on what is going on. I also appreciate the fact that Scott gets the information for the sake of sharing it with us.

*Scott, in my honest opinion, Charlie should retire and put you in charge.* 

I have been mad at E* for their lack of commitment to their recent statements regarding:

(1) Addition of Espn-HD
(2) Addition of Hdnet and Hdnet Movies
(3) Release of 921
(4) Release of the 721 software

and yet they seem to be very committed to "interactive software" which I do not care a cent about.

Scott, the release of the 721 software, will be by the end of August 2003, isn't it? or was this also postponed 'till october 2003?

Charlie, if he is reading or getting the reports from this board, must be laughing right now. I think I am willing to give Charlie more credit than everyone. He knows what his doing and he has a plan. He is not going to come out and let us know the plan. The plan might be just to sell E* and get the heck out but he has something under the table which he is not willing to share.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Bill R said:


> Scott,
> 
> I think we need more posts like Richard's to balance the OVER-HYPED posts that you put make. Sometimes it *looks* like you are so deep in DISH's grip that you can't see reality any more. I, for one, would really like to see more balance at DBSTalk. Stop being such a cheerleader for DISH and look at things the way they REALLY are.


 Scott , It looks like another case of KILL THE MESSENGER!!!!! :eek2:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Are you running for office, Rking?


I thought I might throw my hat into the ring for Governor of California.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Ahh, I have a rather unique view of insider info. Here is a example some of you oldtimers might remember.

My "source" who at the time helped get stuff ready for the chats let me know they were go for a 500 upgrade offer, and another time that HBO had agreed to more E channels. Heck he personally had some of the cake HBO brught to celebrate the signed deal

007 those were fun days! That was his code name. E mail me if your still around.

Anyhow in both cases last minute details immediately before the chat derailed the plans. Charlie is known for making seat of the pants decisions some right during the chat! 

Both of these insider leaks made me look stupid and Dan C enjoyed it

Sometimes theres no way for a insider to guarantee info till after the chat Heck that HBO announcement some saw the press release that was pulled quickly.

Now scott has come a long way. Just like me his Poms arent in use much anymore. Times have changed and E isnt the customer friendly company it used to be.

As a word of warning about insider leaks. One of my fears was always E planting some intentional juicy disinformation with a suspected leaker. If it appears the leaker gets bounced

Sadly I think my realtionship with 007 led to his leaving E. I have no way to know for sure. The poor guy lost hois job and girl friend all at one time. I still feel guilty.

Dont let that haoppen to any of your friends!


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

My point about this is E may have planned to say more about the DVR fee and changed its mind right before or DURING the chat. That is a charlie thing to do.

On the other hand it might be intentional disinformation. Theres no way to know for sure.


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## johnsbin (Nov 14, 2002)

I figure since this is the first chat I have EVER watched in the 7 years I have had E*, I would make a couple comments here about what I saw.

1. What the ...? These guys are in charge of what? That was the most embarassing presentation I have ever witnessed. The PQ of the show was outstanding and the graphic behind Charlie was impressive but these guys are the most fumble-mouthed, uninformed, boring people I have ever witnessed. If you are going to put out information, make sure you KNOW what you are talking about, show some enthusiasm from the heart, and show us something other than your disinterested sarcastic expressions. These guys looked like, "Oh brother, we have to do this crap again." More information needs to be shown with animations, graphics, and short videos that detail and explain what they are trying hopelessly to discuss.

2. Everything they said they had to be corrected and half the time they never clarified which statement was correct. Charlie spent 5 minutes telling us that if you had a receiver or PVR made in the last three years, you had channel 100. I am sitting there with my UHF remote looking at my PG on my 721 and there is NO CHANNEL 100!

3. The caller's questioned were never clearly answered. The one guy ASKED if he could use his 61.5 dish for another satellite instead of putting out money for the SuperDish. The answer was something about AM versus FM and we will replace your dish. At what cost? When? Why can't I use the 61.5 dish for something else? No answer to those questions.

4. They spent good time explaining that even if there were only two participating channels, there were going to launch Locals for some place in ALASKA??? BUT, no word on ESPN-HD for all E* viewers who want it???

What I saw was a complete waste of time for anyone, not just forum people like us. Didn't Charlie even ask if some of what they were talking about was on the Dish Info channel? That's where they could put anything useful from what I witnessed last night.

Larry, Darryl, and Darryl could have done a better job not knowing anything about Dish than these two men who are supposed to be executives and professionals. I will not ever watch that crap again. I don't want to think about what those images mean in board meetings, business calls, deals, and other situations that require a savvy, sharp, on-the-ball evangelizing CEO.

Unbelievable.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Having met both Jim and Charlie what you see is what you get! These arent professional newscasters they are hard working lucky guys who had a vision and saw it occur. If you think they are unpolished NOW you should of seen them at the begining. Deer staring in the headlights come to mind.

The early chats were really rough, in comparisons todays are great.

The early chats had little screening and hardball questions made it on the air.

Now only pre planned pre digested questions get aired.

Thats truly sad. I think dont think charlie is aware of whats really going on.

I wonder his reaction to our opinions on his bug ridden receivers?


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## pjmrt (Jul 17, 2003)

Hey Scott,
I too think you are being too kind. I can't believe I actually watched that mess. Charlie couldn't even pull off the trivia contest. And he must have some great drugs to actually think he's going to be competitive with D* and cable. Time Warner/Brighthouse in my locality has a handfull of HD channels, along with the standard fare, has more movie channels than "Everything Pac" and has almost as many regular channels as top 150, you don't have to buy any equipment (you pay about $10/mo) and they are now offering DVR service, no equipment to buy for an extra $6/mo. The last few minutes of the Chat gave me the impression Charlie hasn't a clue.

One question for you Scott - what's your take on his 721 software question (interactive TV - October) Do you think we'll still get the 1.13 software in a couple of weeks with the instant weather, or is everything pushed out to October? THX


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## rtt2 (Jan 27, 2003)

I am very disappointed to see that the DVR is now going to be official. I was hoping against all odds that Charlie would put the brakes on this fee but now it seems it is set in stone. I truly believe that Echostar is making a strategic error here. Charlie must think of other ways of increasing ARPU rather than fees that do not help overall customer satisfaction. Customers of Dish Network choose it as its provider because they feel it offers more overall value. However, charging greater than or equal to the competition for inferior bug ridden software does not provide value. DVRS are great competitive advantage against cables' VOD (Video On Demand). With more and more cable companies deploying VOD to more households a new service called Free On Demand has become available. Dish Network used to be able to compete with this Free On Demand but no more it looks as if cable has an upper hand with newly implemented DVR fees.
When Charlie compared the DVR fee to that of the cable companies DVR fees he is no comparing all things equal. Cable companies do not require you to purchase the box and then pay a fee [instead the fee is for the rental of the box]. The cable company does not also require long term contracts. [Dish Network will require 2 year contracts with the 510 if yo get it for free as a new sub.] Finally what the heck is Charlie doing comparing himself to the cable companies? In life you compare yourself to the best not the worst.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> Nah Tuesday after a Chat is always sarcasm day. :lol:


Yikes, even our fearless leader is becoming disillusioned. The sky is falling, the sky is falling! :lol:

Ah, I can't switch to D* anyway, because then E* is guaranteed to get their act together AFTER I leave.

Hey, I killed the stock market myself by selling those savings bonds for my son's college fund in January 2001 and buying stocks since I was sick of the pittance of interest I was getting. SOOOOOO now that $5500 is now worth $2500.

Sigh. I must be burning off some SERIOUS karma from another life.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

This stuff is in no way life threatening. I think a lot of you need to cool off. There are a lot more serious stuff going on in the world to be concerned about other then if E* delivers HD content this month or the next.


Ken


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Yes, and if you want to discuss such things there are numerous other places to do that.

We can pound our fists on the table about Sat TV and find other people who share our passion for the subject. And thanks to us, a lot of casual fans can get answers to questions that they might not get a straight answer about otherwise.

Besides, this place let's me forget about all of the other stuff for a little while.

They just announced that a Briton was taken into custody for trying to buy a Russian surface to air missile here in NJ. So we haven't really stopped the terrorists, they are just busy reloading. Pardon me if I DO obsess over petty stuff for a little piece of my day, if you please.


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## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

rtt2 said:


> When Charlie compared the DVR fee to that of the cable companies DVR fees he is no comparing all things equal. Cable companies do not require you to purchase the box and then pay a fee [instead the fee is for the rental of the box]. The cable company does not also require long term contracts. [Dish Network will require 2 year contracts with the 510 if yo get it for free as a new sub.] Finally what the heck is Charlie doing comparing himself to the cable companies? In life you compare yourself to the best not the worst.


You're sort of contradicting yourself here and you're not quite correct either.

New E* customers will not have to pay anything for the DVR510. A 2-year commitment will only be required if they want an additional receiver. For a single 510 it will be 12 months.

And just like I've been saying since the DVR fees were announced Charlie said there would be "special pricing" on the 921 for existing subs and a "discount" on the 510.

He also reminded us that there were plenty of 508s around that won't have fees.

He keeps comparing DISH to cable because cable is his main competition.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

I have a theory, and every recent Charlie Chat agrees with it:

1) Charlie has built E* to the point where he's driven strictly by the bottom line. Adding new channels to existing tiers hurts profits. Adding new international channels helps profits. Adding new locals, even Anchorage, helps profits. Don't expect Charlie to willingly add any more channels. They're either going to be bundled in negotiations with core channels or as a bone to throw us at the next rate increase.

2) Charlie is waiting for HD to become popular with the masses. He's putting the pieces into place to provide HD in a year or two, but for now, it's just another low priority. He's probably using the early adopters to beta test his equipment, in effect.

3) Charlie doesn't care about us vocal, grousing, Internet-savvy viewers. He's more interested in the average guy who just wants ESPN and Fox News on his 19" TV. As others have pointed out, we "intelligencia" are a tiny minority of viewers.

Add it all up, and we may never be pleasantly surprised by another Charlie Chat. But it's fun to heckle!


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## cbusbee (Apr 20, 2002)

carload said:


> I have a theory, and every recent Charlie Chat agrees with it:
> 
> 1) Charlie has built E* to the point where he's driven strictly by the bottom line. Adding new channels to existing tiers hurts profits. Adding new international channels helps profits. Adding new locals, even Anchorage, helps profits. Don't expect Charlie to willingly add any more channels. They're either going to be bundled in negotiations with core channels or as a bone to throw us at the next rate increase.
> 
> ...


Well put. It's either that or the company is for sale...


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well when I mentioned the internet discussions to charlie he appeared amused. I never shared that because I didnt want to make anyone feel bad. Were not as important as we believe.

Not long ago when I was having wierd problems with my 721 and it got stuck in endless reboot I heard scott was really ticked and wanted me banned for posting bogus problems.


Fortunately cooler heads ruled and others reported the SAME bug....

Cut Scott some slack, he was working closely with E. I guess after all this that realtionship is gone or badly bruised. Thats a loss too.

Now on the HD. Rainbow is actively trying to buy 61.5 Would any of us put a bunch of channels up there only to sell off the slot? Thats not logical and E does usually do what makes sense.

Sure it will delay stuff a few months, but look at how much better superdish should be. This plan was put together largely after the merger fell apart.

I suggest we all think about this..............



scroll down...........................




scrll down.............................

Although E has made some bad decisions lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. I think the internet pile on effect has taken over here too well. I am unhappy but lets try to move on and go back to a honest discussion of the issues.

If Es HD effort is truly that bad vote with your wallet and report back here on how you like D. But D doesnt have a high def Tivo either. 

Everything isnt black or white its ALL shades of grey.

Time to get back to normal I can always burn my pom poms later


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

When is the proposed smartcard swap supposed to happen? I was thinking it might be mentioned last night after hearing rumblings about it on here for awhile.


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

RAD said:


> The response I just got back from Dish:
> 
> _
> Thank you for your email correspondence. Currently the information you are requesting is not available.
> ...


In all seriousness (and this isn't meant to detract from your point in anyway here), I'd rather get the above response from Dish Network then be told two or three different dates for the NHL Network launching with the NHL Center Ice Package only to find out later that it wouldn't be added at all in season one. I prefer an "I don't know" to a spinjob, guess, or wild misleading conjecture myself.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

carload, you do make a lot of sense. Dish does want to get into the HD market early but knows that they cannot go full steam ahead when most of the population does not have an HD tv set but to those that do he can market to them VERY well if he has one of the few services around with many HD channel offerings making the expensive HD TV investment a lot more worthwhile.

I hope Rainbow comes out with that DVR where you can lease it especially the HD DVR in which would make a lot more sense to a lot of people because they would not have to shell out all the money all at once. This would also pressure Direct and Dish to do the same or offer something to compete with that.

If Dish and Direct want to get more people to order HD receivers, SuperDishes, and get the popularity up, he needs to put up at least a few HD channels at first for no additional charge in which would help them get some sales later on after they seen how good HD was. He could make it to where they were not HD movie channels or anything like that, but something decent at least and maybe make you have Top 50 or Top 100 or something to view those channels.


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## Zach2 (May 18, 2003)

Hmm....let me think.
Should I watch the NFL Monday Night Opener between the Philadelphia Eagles vs. Tampa Bay Bucs at the new stadium with probably the best two teams in football......OR the Charlie Chat with hosts Dumb and Dumber


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

Are there any lawyers in the house??

This man (Charlie Ergen) is breaking laws. I know he is! We, as a group, need to form a class action law suit against him. 

All the talk on this forum, as much fun as it is, will not bring change in this man, or affect any change in his policies. He seems arrogant, rich and affluent and indifferent to our needs. He is driven by the bottom line. 

If he doesn't want to provide HDTV to us then he should let us know. He should not keep selling us equipment and upgrades and overpriced programing, etc. I for one would join such an initiative.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

BobMurdoch said:


> Yes, and if you want to discuss such things there are numerous other places to do that.
> 
> We can pound our fists on the table about Sat TV and find other people who share our passion for the subject. And thanks to us, a lot of casual fans can get answers to questions that they might not get a straight answer about otherwise.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen where any of the whining here has changed any of the policies at E*. Also, people can get information from this place and others without having to read through tons of disgruntled customers.

Ken


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Well, I'm not sure what laws he is breaking buy strining us along like this. He is being jerk maybe,  but breaking the law? He has left himeself plenty of weasel room.


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## cicijay (Jan 6, 2003)

Cool Member said: "This man (Charlie Ergen) is breaking laws. I know he is! We, as a group, need to form a class action law suit against him." :flaiming 

Bob Haller said : "Well when I mentioned the internet discussions to charlie he appeared amused. I never shared that because I didnt want to make anyone feel bad. Were not as important as we believe." :gott: 


I can see why Charlie would apear amused! :lol:


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## HalfMoon (Aug 10, 2003)

After that last Chat I had to get drunk to calm myself...

When I woke up on Tuesday I started looking for options.. I found them at a local store that was willing to deal on Directv hardware.

I took advantage of the current NFL Sunday Ticket Promo and added the HD Package and bit the bullet.

After the years of promises and in my opinion straight lies about product releases I have decided not to give Mr. Ergen my $90 something a month anymore.

As a side note, I did some A/B comparisons last night, the Sony HD200 with Directv sure looks sharper than the 6000 with Dish when on the same channels. Even the wife thought so, and she was unaware of which was which.

Good luck guys.


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## Greg Johnson (May 3, 2003)

I've been very critical of E* lately in my posts. Which I feel has been and still is justifiable. But I'm going to stop *****ing and wait until after the Sept. 8 CC to make any decisions on my future DBS plans.

I am not so much concerned with WHEN E* comes out with the Superdish and HD package as to HOW MUCH it's going to cost. I can see E* giving us a good deal on the upgrade to the Superdish itself. But what about the switches and DP adapters most of us will need when we have multiple legacy receivers and a SW64. That will be the deal breaker for me. If it costs hundreds of dollars to upgrade. I will be gone.

One last thing. Quite a few people here have blasted that "army dude" on the CC. I will agree that way too much time was devoted to his appearance but that is no reason to blast R. Lee Ermey personally. I think it was Charlie's decision to have him on for 20 minutes, not his. R Lee Ermey does a great deal of speaking engagements to our troops. Which has been a great morale booster for our troops that are in harms way.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2003)

halfmoon said:


> After that last Chat I had to get drunk to calm myself...
> 
> When I woke up on Tuesday I started looking for options.. I found them at a local store that was willing to deal on Directv hardware.
> 
> ...


Did you do comparisons on the HD channels or just the SD ones?


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## earroyo1 (Nov 20, 2002)

DTV, what halfmoon has stated is a fact, I have done the same, after I bought my DTV HDTV receiver when directly to DiscoveryHD and made the comparisons, and believe it or not DTV's DiscoveryHD looks by far better than Dish's DiscoveryHD. Obviously all constants are the same, Cables, TV Set, etc..., only difference was the Receiver and provider.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

_"Well, I'm not sure what laws he is breaking by stringing us along like this."_

Charlie may not be in violation of any civil or criminal laws, but he certainly has...

...broken the law of gravity by keeping us up in the air indefinitely
...violated the laws of physics by trying to hold back the inexorable progress of HD
...strained the concept of credibility by not keeping promises made
...ignored the principal of action and equal reaction by failing to respond to the burning issues
...fueled the flames of rhetoric through obsfucation and sleight-of-hand
...tempted the rule of 'what goes around comes around' by ignoring the wants of loyal subs


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

R. Lee Ermey, whether intentionally or not, was very humorous. I will probably watch his show. 

But, Charlie Chat didn't inspire any confidence in me. Oh well, goodbye Dish.


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## DTV (Aug 13, 2003)

earroyo1 said:


> DTV, what halfmoon has stated is a fact, I have done the same, after I bought my DTV HDTV receiver when directly to DiscoveryHD and made the comparisons, and believe it or not DTV's DiscoveryHD looks by far better than Dish's DiscoveryHD. Obviously all constants are the same, Cables, TV Set, etc..., only difference was the Receiver and provider.


I don't doubt what he is saying. I am no longer a Dish sub and I was just looking for clarification because of so many D* subs have reported decreased pic quality recently. The only decrease I noticed was around the time the HD package was launched but the pic quality has been back to normal lately. Just wanted to see if halfmoon saw the same thing.


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## baloo75 (Jun 12, 2003)

I like others have been bashing DISH lately. I have come to the conclusion that the service I get currently is good and reasonably priced. I don't like all the bugs in the current releases of firmware within the receivers (I have a 301, 501, 721) but I couldn't watch TV without the PVR/DVR (or whatever you want to call it), I hate using the 301 because of this.

Now having said all that in the Chat they showed the Superdish. I have a couple of comments on this. First the thing is way to big. It appears that it is larger than the dish size allowed for under the FCC ruling which a lot of us use to get around the homeowners associations bashing us for having a dish. I don't think I could get one even if I wanted to. The price is another. In the Christmas timeframe I will be taking the HDTV plunge. The TV alone is a major investment and the only way that I can justify it is that all of our over the air networks in our location transmit HD, so I can get that free (if I get an HDTV with a built in OTA receiver). Paying for a BUD (Big ugly dish) and equipment for driving it so that I can get additional HDTV is not an option. When I look at DirectTV their 3 transponder dish is only 12"x18" in size. Basically the same size dish that I have right now with DISH. This small DirectTV dish allows me to get all of their HD content as well as SD content. The equipment cost for current users seems to be about the same or less than Echostar and their service is also the same or less than DISH. In the christmas timeframe I will be switching to DirectTV because of these reasons. I beleive Charlie has missed the boat on HD content/hardware and when I listen to these chats he hosts it confirms that more.

I also didn't like the way he worded the 501/508/721 being grandfathered "at this time", he left it open ended to adding a fee in the future. 

I believe DISH is currently in disarray. I am just glad the merger didn't go through (even though at the time I wanted it to) so I have a choice in satellite entertainment. Maybe the regulators are smarter than I after all


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## clapple (Feb 11, 2003)

Zach said:


> Hmm....let me think.
> Should I watch the NFL Monday Night Opener between the Philadelphia Eagles vs. Tampa Bay Bucs at the new stadium with probably the best two teams in football......OR the Charlie Chat with hosts Dumb and Dumber


That's really a tough one. I'll have to think about that. OK, thinking is over.

Seriously, why aren't they smart enough to have the CC's on say Tuesday nights, during football season? Dumb and Dumber is right!


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

clapple said:


> That's really a tough one. I'll have to think about that. OK, thinking is over.
> 
> Seriously, why aren't they smart enough to have the CC's on say Tuesday nights, during football season? Dumb and Dumber is right!


Nah, he's smart. He's hoping you'll go out and get one of those new fangle PVR, ops sorry a DVR, so he can make an extra $4.99 per month.


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

clapple said:


> That's really a tough one. I'll have to think about that. OK, thinking is over.
> 
> Seriously, why aren't they smart enough to have the CC's on say Tuesday nights, during football season? Dumb and Dumber is right!


They actually did that several years ago as I recall. But then again, that was when they actually made announcments on the show, added new channels, created the Top 150, etc.

Why give more people a reason to watch what we witnessed this week when they don't have to?


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Baloo75, there is a bunch of stuff up in the air but I'm almost certain the superdish is still well under the 1 meter (39.75 inch) limit for the FCC regs so that should not cause a problem. In fact, the Superdish appears only marginally wider than the current 18hx22w DirecTv 3 slot dish. I don;t beleive the 18x12 you cite is correct.


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## dswallow (Mar 31, 2003)

baloo75 said:


> First the thing is way to big. It appears that it is larger than the dish size allowed for under the FCC ruling which a lot of us use to get around the homeowners associations bashing us for having a dish.


Even the monster Wave Frontier dish at 90cm is under the FCC 1-meter size limit of the FCC rules. No problem with the SuperDish at all in that regard.


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

The current tripleLNB DirecTV dish is roughly 18x20", 18x22", or 18x24" depending on the model. With the recent SatC problems, some customers on the east coast and west coast have tried the new, larger dish closer to a meter in size.

Echostar was originally claiming 26" for the Superdish (20x26" was suggested by some). It remains to be seen what the exact dimensions will be on the shipping product.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well in all fairness the superdish will permit ooodles more channels than D 3 slot dish.

Some will be LIL but theres a ton of space.


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## ride525 (Aug 13, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> Well in all fairness the superdish will permit ooodles more channels than D 3 slot dish.
> 
> Some will be LIL but theres a ton of space.


Why will SuperDish provide more channels than Directv 3 slot dish? Is this a reason to go with DISH over Directv?


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## baloo75 (Jun 12, 2003)

Lee L said:


> Baloo75, there is a bunch of stuff up in the air but I'm almost certain the superdish is still well under the 1 meter (39.75 inch) limit for the FCC regs so that should not cause a problem. In fact, the Superdish appears only marginally wider than the current 18hx22w DirecTv 3 slot dish. I don;t beleive the 18x12 you cite is correct.


Yep, sorry about the 18x12 should be 18x22. I have never seen sizes mentioned on the superdish, it just looks big everytime I see a picture of it. If it is 26" then that isn't that much bigger so maybe it isn't an issue, thanks for clearing that up everyone.


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## ylinen (Aug 4, 2003)

After watching the Charlie Chat and reading this thread; I am wondering what is so hard with any Satellite or Cable company getting the 4 major network HD broadcast. 

Like most of you I am stuck trying to get the best HD package. Dish has only one network. My local cable (Cox) only has 2.

I guess I will have to forget about all 3 of the carriers and just put up an old antenna and try to see if I can get them that way. 

Was hoping to get the 811 and have both, but Since Dish keeps putting off the HD announcements; I may have to go with cable.

Now the cable company is making me buy the STB and not the one that I would want to buy with firewire.

What is so hard with running one of these Carrier companies? I must be missing it I guess.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I think getting all four major networks to broadcast HD and to have it available on satellite will really help and would be a great start. What will help sell this even more is the court case Dish has in which may allow them to sell to a lot more subs and previous subs that were grandfathered in 1999.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

ride525 said:


> Why will SuperDish provide more channels than Directv 3 slot dish? Is this a reason to go with DISH over Directv?


D has fewer full conus transponders than E, even without Superdish. Then too E has the side slots of 61.5 and 148.

Now add the superdish and E is awash in bandwdth in comparison to D.

D had side slots and let them expire.


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## DTV (Aug 13, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> D has fewer full conus transponders than E, even without Superdish. Then too E has the side slots of 61.5 and 148.
> 
> Now add the superdish and E is awash in bandwdth in comparison to D.
> 
> D had side slots and let them expire.


Not entirely accurate. Yes, E* does have more DBS transponders than DirecTV. But DirecTV will also have more spotbeam capability. From what I've read the new spot beam sat at 119 will free up about 5 CONUS transponders. This closes the gap since Dish will be forced to use regular, CONUS transponders for locals. Dish has announced the Superdish to help combat this problem but DirecTV also has a potential ace up there sleeve in the form of PanAmSat. Don't forget that Rupert also gets PanAmSat with his purchase of Hughes/DirecTV. Since he already has Sky Latin America there is no longer a need for DirecTV's Latin America assets. These sats have Ku capacity and a North American footprint and could be used in a DirecTV superdish solution.


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## tony burney (Aug 12, 2003)

earroyo1 said:


> DTV, what halfmoon has stated is a fact, I have done the same, after I bought my DTV HDTV receiver when directly to DiscoveryHD and made the comparisons, and believe it or not DTV's DiscoveryHD looks by far better than Dish's DiscoveryHD. Obviously all constants are the same, Cables, TV Set, etc..., only difference was the Receiver and provider.


fact???? , opinion, yes.  
Hmmm,

Even as recently as last week.. we happen to be discussing this so several people i know who have both did a and b comparisions.

They have had the opposite experience, or seen no difference on discoveryhd between the two providers.. Now on hbohd and shohd, Dish won hands down..

Maybe the fact there are different makers of Directv receivers plays a part. Maybe the Sony is better then the 6000 , but other direct receivers are not.

Who is right? both.... too many variables..

But everyone i know that uses both Dish, and Directv, for hd, finds right now Dish to be superior in terms of pq, but Directv in terms of HD offerings.


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## tony burney (Aug 12, 2003)

"""""They are adding a fee to the 921. What the heck happened""""""

i think they perceived great demand and thought hey why not see what the market will bare.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I think the problem is that only 10% of the subscribers own PVRs so he didn't get the boost to his bottom line that he expected by not charging a monthly fee as a loss leader (There are now 8.8 million subscribers and skyreport recently stated that E* had 800,000 PVRs in service. About 250,000 of these were Dishplayers, but it isn't known how many of them have upgraded to newer PVRs.

So he is trying to change gears to try to nudge people to more expensive programming tiers. The 508s and used Dishplayers will probably spike in price but it is not known if used receivers will also not come with monthly charges (they mentioned grandfathered users who owned the equipment... has anyone heard if someone buys a receiver post 9/1 if they will avoid the charge?

Plus most of the people with the means to shell out $1000 for a receiver will also probably absorb moving to the AEP without squealing too loud. Especially if they are someone like me with three (soon to be four) PVRs.


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## tony burney (Aug 12, 2003)

where are 105 and 121 on the compass


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## tony burney (Aug 12, 2003)

"""I think that Charlie doesn't think that the return on investment in Hdtv will be worth it right now. Unfortunately Cable has a chance to really make headway on Hdtv while Charlie sits and talks to washed up actors on his" Charlie Strings America Along Chats""

i am sure he would disagree with you as he is pouring alot of money into it right now. i think because of the cable threat.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The question I have now is what advantage is Satellite going to have over Cable in the future? Even Verizon, the phone company, is planning to launch tv, internet, and phone service to most if not all of its customers in the future. I see where some new lines and poles are being put up in our area now.


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## tony burney (Aug 12, 2003)

thanks i had a brain lock,


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> The question I have now is what advantage is Satellite going to have over Cable in the future? Even Verizon, the phone company, is planning to launch tv, internet, and phone service to most if not all of its customers in the future. I see where some new lines and poles are being put up in our area now.


And if they offer TV in the same manner as their peers at SBC and Qwest, it will be through existing DBS services. Of course Dish would likely be absolving themselves of certain responsibilities for their common customers.

Given the JD Power television programming service customer satisfaction ratings (DirecTV #1, Dish Network #2 among television signal providers) versus those of phone companies, you can assume that subscribing to your local telco may not be a big win.


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## SD493 (Mar 10, 2003)

I have been out of town since Monday and so I didn't see the chat. I had said that this chat would be the "make or break" for me in making a decision whether or not to switch to D*. I guess my decison has been made--this chat was nothing more than the past several chats--promises of things to come in the future. That future gets further and further away while
I can have ESPN HD and others on D*. I'll see what kind of deal I can get tomorrow. I hate to spend even more money, but maybe I can sell my 6000 on e-bay.


Stan


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

SD493 said:


> I have been out of town since Monday and so I didn't see the chat. I had said that this chat would be the "make or break" for me in making a decision whether or not to switch to D*. I guess my decison has been made--this chat was nothing more than the past several chats--promises of things to come in the future. That future gets further and further away while
> I can have ESPN HD and others on D*. I'll see what kind of deal I can get tomorrow. I hate to spend even more money, but maybe I can sell my 6000 on e-bay.
> 
> Stan


Last I saw, a 6000U with 8VSB will fetch between 500-600 dollars on ebay. That will more than purchase a D* HD receiver, dish, and installation for a first time sub.

Jeff


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## SD493 (Mar 10, 2003)

Jeff_R said:


> Last I saw, a 6000U with 8VSB will fetch between 500-600 dollars on ebay. That will more than purchase a D* HD receiver, dish, and installation for a first time sub.
> 
> Jeff


Just bought the Samsung HD receiver and trible LNB dish for D*.
Sorry Charlie, but I got fed up with waiting and waiting and waiting... I have a 6000 (8psk.8vsb for sale).


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## rcnet (Aug 15, 2003)

kstevens said:


> This stuff is in no way life threatening. I think a lot of you need to cool off. There are a lot more serious stuff going on in the world to be concerned about other then if E* delivers HD content this month or the next.
> 
> Ken


The problem, I think, is the timing with the NFL season. People don't want to miss week 1 of the season without NFL games in HD.


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## SD493 (Mar 10, 2003)

For me it was college football on ESPN HD. I am not a big pro football fan but I do like college
football ("Roll Tide"--although with 3 coaches in a space of just a few months who knows how far they will roll this year). I realize that it is just TV and in considering everything else that is going on in the world today it is of little significance, but to those of us who have invested a good bit of money into a high def TV we do want to maximize our investment.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

SD493 said:


> For me it was college football on ESPN HD. I am not a big pro football fan but I do like college
> football ("Roll Tide"--although with 3 coaches in a space of just a few months who knows how far they will roll this year). I realize that it is just TV and in considering everything else that is going on in the world today it is of little significance, but to those of us who have invested a good bit of money into a high def TV we do want to maximize our investment.


And what makes you think I haven't? I have a Pioneer 710hd (64" screen) in my great room and a phillips 34" hd direct view in my bedroom. While I wouild like to get the 921 and hd package, my life is not going to end if I don't get it this month or next month..

Ken


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## SD493 (Mar 10, 2003)

kstevens said:


> And what makes you think I haven't? I have a Pioneer 710hd (64" screen) in my great room and a phillips 34" hd direct view in my bedroom. While I wouild like to get the 921 and hd package, my life is not going to end if I don't get it this month or next month..
> 
> Ken


Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I was just saying that, even though I am dissatisifed with E* and made the switch to D* it is still just TV to me. You have decided to wait on E*, I decided to switch. None of my locals (except one) have started digital broadcasting yet and ESPN-HD is the only way I will be able to view college games in HD. If not for that, I might have waited on E*. Again, sorry if I offended.


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## rowdymon (Oct 17, 2002)

SD493 said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I was just saying that, even though I am dissatisifed with E* and made the switch to D* it is still just TV to me. You have decided to wait on E*, I decided to switch. None of my locals (except one) have started digital broadcasting yet and ESPN-HD is the only way I will be able to view college games in HD. If not for that, I might have waited on E*. Again, sorry if I offended.


SD493, you've got mail. 

Huzefa


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

SD493 said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I was just saying that, even though I am dissatisifed with E* and made the switch to D* it is still just TV to me. You have decided to wait on E*, I decided to switch. None of my locals (except one) have started digital broadcasting yet and ESPN-HD is the only way I will be able to view college games in HD. If not for that, I might have waited on E*. Again, sorry if I offended.


As far as I can see, you have nothing to apologize for. Frankly, it really annoys me when someone tells someone else what to be passionate about and what doesn't deserve someone's passions.

Comments such as "it isn't life threatening", "it's only TV", and "it's not the end of the world" demonstrate a hypocrisy as far as I can tell. I'd say that 99% of what goes on in those people's lives aren't life threatening or the end of the world. Yet, I'll bet that those same people are passionate about some of those non life threatening interests.

Some people are very interested and passionate about HDTV. There's nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is for someone else to be critical of and pass judgement on another's passions and interests. That's really irritating.


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## SD493 (Mar 10, 2003)

Jerry G said:


> As far as I can see, you have nothing to apologize for. Frankly, it really annoys me when someone tells someone else what to be passionate about and what doesn't deserve someone's passions.
> 
> Comments such as "it isn't life threatening", "it's only TV", and "it's not the end of the world" demonstrate a hypocrisy as far as I can tell. I'd say that 99% of what goes on in those people's lives aren't life threatening or the end of the world. Yet, I'll bet that those same people are passionate about some of those non life threatening interests.
> 
> Some people are very interested and passionate about HDTV. There's nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is for someone else to be critical of and pass judgement on another's passions and interests. That's really irritating.


Thanks.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2003)

nostar said:


> Are there any lawyers in the house??
> 
> This man (Charlie Ergen) is breaking laws. I know he is! We, as a group, need to form a class action law suit against him.
> 
> ...


Breaking laws? What laws?

If you don't like the chats, don't watch.
If you don't like Dish, switch to Direct of Cable
If you don't like Charlie, write him a letter or send him an e-mail
Please, get a life.


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## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

Earl Zuberbelt said:


> Breaking laws? What laws?
> 
> If you don't like the chats, don't watch.
> If you don't like Dish, switch to Direct of Cable
> ...


Yeah, it's posts like that that keep the brass at E* from taking this forum very seriously.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Jerry G said:


> As far as I can see, you have nothing to apologize for. Frankly, it really annoys me when someone tells someone else what to be passionate about and what doesn't deserve someone's passions.
> 
> Comments such as "it isn't life threatening", "it's only TV", and "it's not the end of the world" demonstrate a hypocrisy as far as I can tell. I'd say that 99% of what goes on in those people's lives aren't life threatening or the end of the world. Yet, I'll bet that those same people are passionate about some of those non life threatening interests.
> 
> Some people are very interested and passionate about HDTV. There's nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is for someone else to be critical of and pass judgement on another's passions and interests. That's really irritating.


Glad I could irritate you......

Ken


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

kstevens said:


> Glad I could irritate you......
> 
> Ken


I'm not at all surprised by your response. It's sad that there is nothing in your life that you're passionate about.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2003)

tony burney said:


> where are 105 and 121 on the compass


For a rough guide, look at where in the sky your Dish500 is pointed to -- the 110 and 119 satellites are there. 105 is a bit to the left, and 121 is a bit to the right.

Take a compass with you, if you need to know that for your locale.


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## DTV (Aug 13, 2003)

kstevens said:


> Glad I could irritate you......
> 
> Ken


Don't worry. You've been irritating me for years


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## bluuz (Jul 3, 2003)

wow, great thread. As a Dish subscriber who wants HD, I'm disappointed that HD content appears to be delayed. But I think it's wrong to conclude that Dish is somehow behind the curve in rolling out HD. If they get the Superdish out and functioning sometime in 2004, Dish should be poised to reap the profits of the coming HD boom. The boom certainly isn't here yet. The Charlie Chats reflect corporate culture whereby no discouraging words can be spoken, and conflicting earlier announcements are not directly addressed, but are "inoperative." No different than any other company, really. I've already dropped Dish core channels and Discovery HD and will drop the service altogether next month when I switch to Comcast. I'm doing this not because I dislike Dish, but because they currently aren't competing in terms of HD. If the Superdish becomes reality and Dish takes the lead again in HD, I'll happily switch back.


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## nostar (Jun 22, 2003)

Earl Zuberbelt said:


> Breaking laws? What laws?
> 
> If you don't like the chats, don't watch.
> If you don't like Dish, switch to Direct of Cable
> ...


To Earl Zuberbelt:

How about selling equipment upgrades to customers, (the
enhanced HD module for the 6000 receiver being a a prime example @ $99.00/unit) so they, the HD customer could receive future HD programing that didn't exist at the time (with the exclusion of Discovery HD), and still doesn't exist today, over a year later. I think that this maybe construed as false advertising. Maybe? I'm not a lawyer.

Let's not forget the upgrade to the superdish and the special switch we need with the 6000 receiver in the future.

Hell! McDonald's is getting sued for making people fat and burning them.

I have spent over $1000 dollars on equipment and get one channel of HD on Dish. (HBO).

Summer has come and almost gone and the promise of HDNet and HDNet movies is waning. This was promised in one of the Chats. Is that against the law?

I do like the Chats, I don't like the misinformation they provide.

I don't know if I likeCharlie or not, I don't know him. I know I don't know what he does or says.

Have you read the other post in this thread. I'm not the only one that is dissatisfied with E*

I have a life but it would be much better with HDTV. Have you seen it?

I think that you must have a Dish 500 system and prefer SD.


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## Jeff_R (Jun 11, 2002)

nostar said:


> How about selling equipment upgrades to customers, (the
> enhanced HD module for the 6000 receiver being a a prime example @ $99.00/unit) so they, the HD customer could receive future HD programing that didn't exist at the time (with the exclusion of Discovery HD), and still doesn't exist today, over a year later. I think that this maybe construed as false advertising. Maybe? I'm not a lawyer.


I'm also no lawyer, but in my knowledge of the law, this would only play into any potential lawsuit if the new channels that go up on SuperDish are QPSK instead of 8PSK. Even then it would be shaky at best.

As was pointed out after the last tech chat, it was never said that "All we need...", it was "You will need this for all future..."

Jeff


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