# Dish DVR vs. DirecTV DVR



## wannabeswede (Jan 13, 2003)

So I am pretty much convinced I am going to switch to DirecTV(Tivo). I have researched this but I have 1 or 2 last questions. As far as what the Dish DVR has that the DirecTV DVR does not have. Please let me know if I am right and if I missed anything.

1. Dish has 60 min. buffer, Tivo only has 30
2. The Dish Guide has a live picture up in the right hand corner the Tivo does not.

on a side note to item 2, I thought I read somewhere that with the DirecTivo with the dual tuners you can do PIP on any TV, is that correct?

Thanks much,
Kevin


----------



## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

wannabeswede said:


> ... on a side note to item 2, I thought I read somewhere that with the DirecTivo with the dual tuners you can do PIP on any TV, is that correct?
> 
> Thanks much,
> Kevin


I don't know about DirecTivo, but with the Dish dual tuner 522, you can do PIP on any TV since a software release during the summer.


----------



## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

wannabeswede said:


> 1. Dish has 60 min. buffer, Tivo only has 30
> 2. The Dish Guide has a live picture up in the right hand corner the Tivo does not.
> 
> on a side note to item 2, I thought I read somewhere that with the DirecTivo with the dual tuners you can do PIP on any TV, is that correct?


1. My 501 had a 60 minute buffer. The stock DTivo has a 30 minute buffer on each tuner.
2. Correct. This is one of the more irritating items for channel surfers as the guide obscures the picture. 
2.a. No. The DTivo only has a single decoder (to output the 0s and 1s in a form that is displayable on your TV) so it can only output 1 single stream. The dual tuners allow you to receive and store 2 different satellite streams (or channels) but only have a single decoder does not allow it to output PIP.
If these items are important to you, the 522 or 721 is much more suited to that and "has it all over" the Tivo.

In my dream world, E* will release a 544 (4 tuners, 4 outputs) that uses the Tivo software! :sure:


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Regarding #1, that is not accurate. You can increase the buffer on your DTIVO to 120 minutes if you so desire.


----------



## cclement (Mar 22, 2004)

wannabeswede said:


> 1. Dish has 60 min. buffer, Tivo only has 30


On my 721 and 921, the pause buffer is 120 minutes. I'm not sure about the other receivers.

I read, and probably agree with the following opinion: Dish is great for live TV while DTivo is best for non-live viewing.

So it's your call.


----------



## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> Regarding #1, that is not accurate. You can increase the buffer on your DTIVO to 90 minutes if you so desire.


Is this by hacking or a menu option?


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

The 501, 508 and 510 have 1 hour buffers, the 721 and 921 have 2 hour buffers. The buffer on the DirecTiVo is 30 minutes on each tuner but can be modified to be 90 minutes as said above.


----------



## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

Dumb question, but I'll go ahead and ask since I know there are others who want to know: why is the buffer important and is it advantageous to have a larger buffer?


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

beejaycee said:


> Is this by hacking or a menu option?


Via a little software tweak created by JBliss. 

BTW, the buffer maximum is 120 minutes and not 90. I corrected my original post above.


----------



## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> Via a little software tweak created by JBliss.


TCL hunting time again! :slowgrin:


----------



## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

BuckeyeChris said:


> Dumb question, but I'll go ahead and ask since I know there are others who want to know: why is the buffer important and is it advantageous to have a larger buffer?


Ooo, me! Ooo, me! :jumpingja 
Let's say that you are watching Dr. Phil addressing the socio-economic issues facing trailer park residents. At 9:39, during a commercial break you hit 'pause' and swap over to the other tuner and, HOLY COW! :eek2: , the Swedish Bikini Team is facing off against the Budweiser Froggers in a mud wrestling re-match to reclaim their world title! (Oh muh gawd, was that tonight???) And it started at 8:00! But not to worry, with your big ol' 60 minute buffer you can rewind back to the very start and enjoy every moment. (Which is fortunate because at 8:07 Helga did her infamous double-Dutch T-twister! :heybaby: ) After enjoying a thrilling contest in which the Froggers held onto their title after Helga was sidelined for the T-twister (the crowd loves that move but it is an automatic 22.3 minute penalty if the refs see it), you return to Dr. Phil for the 5-minute short film "Tornadoes: Terror on Earth or Remodel Opportunity?"

Okay, when I say "you," I meant "me." And in answer to your question, it's a matter of size.  And convenience. An obvious downside to the larger buffers is that they take up space. And if you 'only' have a 40 gig drive, space might be an issue.


----------



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Even with just one tuner, a larger pause buffer is good. I've been known to start watching a race or football game and go run a couple of errands so that I'm guaranteed to have enough "live pause" in the game so that I don't have to watch commercials. Now, you could set the thing to record the game/program/whatever, but with live events, you never know if they are going to run late.


----------



## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

djlong said:


> Even with just one tuner, a larger pause buffer is good. I've been known to start watching a race or football game and go run a couple of errands so that I'm guaranteed to have enough "live pause" in the game so that I don't have to watch commercials. Now, you could set the thing to record the game/program/whatever, but with live events, you never know if they are going to run late.


Thanks to beejaycee and djlong for your responses.

With live events and using my 522, I can extend the length of the program by up to 90 minutes.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

beejaycee said:


> TCL hunting time again! :slowgrin:


Or if you were real nice, you can ask someone who might have this.


----------



## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> Or if you were real nice, you can ask someone who might have this.


I found this over on :up_to_som The Forum Which Must Not Be Named with TCL scripts attached. If you know of something spiffier, I'd appreciate a heads-up!


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

That will suffice. 

Just make sure you get the right patch for the right version of software you're running. Software 4.0X will now run on all Series 2 DirecTIVO units.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

I just switched (as in 2 weeks ago) from Dish to Direct. I had a 721 for 2 years (which I never had any problems with) and now I have a DirecTivo. As much flack as the Dish DVRs get, there are a lot of nice things they have that the Tivo is missing:

- A start from beginning option when you got to watch a recording you've already watched. The only option is resume, then you have to putz around with the rewind and skip ahead to get back to the beginning

- A stop button that takes you back to the home screen for the recording

- Trying to browse the guide is a joke. It is so unbelievably slow.

- There is no indication in the guide of which shows are going to be recorded, you have to go to the to do list.

- You can't select multiple recordings to delete in one shot, you have to delete each one individually

- The season passes don't always work right, sometimes they pick up the reruns or syndicated eps as well.

- Setting season passes is really slow, you can wait over a minute to change screens after you set one up

- After you set a season pass from the guide, it takes you back to the current time/channel in the guide instead of where you set the SP, which is even more annoying because of how long it takes you to get back to where you were because the guide is so slow

- You have to tell it what channels you receive or it will record shows on channels you don't get. 

On the other hand, the Tivo has some definite advantages:

- Season passes usually do work right, and they are much more robust than the static timers

- Wish lists so you can enter shows/movies that aren't in the guide

- The search is instantaneous - as you start typing the show title it shows you the list of matching shows. The upshot is that I end up setting season passes off the search instead of the guide because it is so much faster

- They are upgradeable. I bought one that us upped to 120 hours from Weaknees.com

IMO, which provider has the channels you want for a better price is more important than the differences in the DVRs. I switched because my wife works for Qwest and they have a partnership with DirecTV and she gets an employee discount on Direct, and also because Direct locked up the Sunday Ticket for another 6 years so there was no more hope of Dish ever getting it.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

dbronstein said:


> - You have to tell it what channels you receive or it will record shows on channels you don't get.


Not true. At all.


----------



## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

dbronstein said:


> I just switched (as in 2 weeks ago) from Dish to Direct. I had a 721 for 2 years (which I never had any problems with) and now I have a DirecTivo. As much flack as the Dish DVRs get, there are a lot of nice things they have that the Tivo is missing:


Great post in comparing Dish's DVR to Directv's DVR! I believe the only people who can truly compare DVRs are those who have owned both. I never had a 721 but I probably would have been very happy with it given what I have heard about its OS's stability. (Doesn't it also use Linux?) I did have a 501 and was happy with it 90% of the time. (But for that last 10% I could have cheerfully chucked it out a window!) As time goes on, I don't miss the menu speed of the 501, the caller id, or the guide features (although I still miss not being able to easily access the guide from a recording). But the first month after switching was rough! Now I have to say that perhaps Dish did me a favor by not letting me buy/rent a 522.  I ended up with two DTivos for less than I paid for one 501 and 1/2 of what I was willing to pay for a 522. (And selling the 501 paid for everything.) MRV rules!


----------



## beejaycee (Nov 1, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> Not true. At all.


My experience has been different. (And I've had to set up "Channels You Receive" after reinstalling software frequently in the last month.) I have had to tell both Tivos what channels I receive or it has used a Wishlist to record something on a CONUS network channel that I don't have. It was bizarre to see that the Simpsons were recorded as planned on Fox at the time I expected but I only had a blank screen to stare at. I've since learned to give it a few hours to 'reacquire' my locals, uncheck everything in "Channels You Receive," and then check every channel whose programming I don't mind seeing in "Suggestions." Fortunately, most users only have to set this up once. Hackers, on the other hand, get familiar with it!


----------



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

dbronstein said:


> [...]
> - You can't select multiple recordings to delete in one shot, you have to delete each one individually
> [...]
> - The season passes don't always work right, sometimes they pick up the reruns or syndicated eps as well.
> ...


1 - I have to do the same on my DP - select the show, 'mouse' over to Erase and select that.

2 - I'll take that *any* day over the DP's unbelievably annoying tendency to NOT record recurring events.

3 - I'd love it if the DP would STOP adding channels I don't get, will never get, and am constantly eliminating from my guide. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to go into the setting to get rid of the Cinemax channels. Same holds true for all the spanish channels in that package. Every day *something* shows up in the guide that I'd previously locked out.


----------



## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Did anyone mentioned that the DIrect Tivo Guide is the slowest guide in the world right now. This is true, I have compare many different brands and models.

The Dish DVR guide is super fast.

The slowness is cause by the Tivo Corp policy of storing and tracking your usage, they then upload this data and sell it. If you reset the data your self it does get faster. Also if you put the second tuner on a channel that does not exist (so it is recording nothing to the HD) it gets faster.

These are design problems with the Tivo. Maybe this is why Direct TV is coming out with there own DVR next spring.

I still like TIvo better than the Dish DVR, I just wanted to make sure the requestor of this thread knew about both the pros and the cons before buying.


----------



## lastmanstanding (Mar 22, 2003)

wanna,

We live by PVRs in our house, and Dish offers a fine PVR service without the $14 a month Tivo fee. We have two 721s, so we have dual tuner, 90 hours of recording, and no monthly charge. Plus we like the Superstations, and the last time I looked, Direct didn't have them. But next year Direct is follow Dish and will offer their own, non-tivo DVRs. There is a thread about that on the forum somewhere.

Personally, I would switch just to support Rupert Murdoch, the Father of FOX News, who now owns Direct, but $14 a month is $14 a month. 

LMS


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

The monthly fee for the DirecTiVo is $4.99, and covers _all_ of the DirecTiVos. The monthly fee is waived is you subscribe to the Total Choice Premium. The "$14 a month" fee is if you have a standalone TiVo, and the standalones have only one input, not two.

The DirecTV Grid is slower than the TiVo Live Guide. But, I rarely use the guide anyways. I instead scan by title, not by time, and pre-record the shows for later viewing.

When you first get the DirecTiVo, it has all the channels you receive selected and the favorite channels deselected. You have to go through and deselect the channels you either are not subscribed to or don't want to watch. The reason why some channels "reappear" is usually after a weekend when DirecTV turns off a few PPV and shopping channels for weekend sports, then reactive them.

Some of the "design" problems may be that DirecTV has been handling all of the support for the DirecTiVos, not TiVo. The series 2 units are capable of version 4 (including Home Media Option), just that DirecTV has elected not to roll out version 4 at this time.

And, I have used the 501 and the DirecTiVo. I will agree that there are some things that were done better on the 501 than the DirecTiVo. But, considering that both DBS providers charge a $5 fee for new DVRs, I still consider the DirecTiVo software superior. Plus, I expanded the built-in drive from the original 40GB to two 160GB drives.

My feeling is that if you mainly watch TV live (like my mother), then a DirecTiVo is a terrible receiver. However, if you time shift everything (like me), then a DirecTiVo is great. And a DVR is better than a VCR.


----------



## lastmanstanding (Mar 22, 2003)

Ah hah! $4.99 is much better. I was missing something. Now that I've had these two units for a while, I can't imagine not having them. I am buying DVRs for my mother in law and brother in law because I can't stand watching TV at their places in real time. Nice Christmas presents.

LMS


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Lord Vader said:


> Not true. At all.


Then why did the "Channels I receive list" have everything checked until I cleaned it up?


----------



## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

The "Channels I Receive" list is the one TiVo uses when auto-scheduling your SP's and WL's. *You must set this list up manually in order for the TiVo software to work properly.* It is not an auto-scanned list of "channels I subscribe to and can actually watch". If you tell the TiVo you get a certain channel, it thinks it can record from that channel whether it gets a signal or not. You should add every channel to which you actually subscribe to this list when you activate the box, then leave it alone until you add or substract from your programming package.

The "Favorites" list is a subset of "Channels I Receive". It can contain all, most, some or none of these channels. It has no bearing as far as scheduling recordings is concerned. It is only for the use of the viewer when guide surfing as it can contain only those channels they are most interested in.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

spanishannouncetable said:


> The "Channels I Receive" list is the one TiVo uses when auto-scheduling your SP's and WL's. *You must set this list up manually in order for the TiVo software to work properly.* It is not an auto-scanned list of "channels I subscribe to and can actually watch". If you tell the TiVo you get a certain channel, it thinks it can record from that channel whether it gets a signal or not. You should add every channel to which you actually subscribe to this list when you activate the box, then leave it alone until you add or substract from your programming package.


This is exactly my point. The DirecTivo doesn't know what channels you subscribe to until you tell it.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Neither does the HBH-SA.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I don't know why you guys have had so many problems with these channels. I've had DTIVO's for several years, and on NONE of the models have I ever experienced these problems, and not once did I ever change the channels received options. I have never, ever bothered to modify anything related to my channels list or channels received, and through all this, nary a hiccup.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

I haven't had any problems with it, it was just a pain in the ass to do the initial setup.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dbronstein said:


> - A start from beginning option when you got to watch a recording you've already watched. The only option is resume, then you have to putz around with the rewind and skip ahead to get back to the beginning
> 
> - A stop button that takes you back to the home screen for the recording
> 
> ...


1- You only see the resume option if you left watching the recording in the middle. If you watched to the end and didn't delete it, it will simply give you the option to play it. As for getting back to the beginning, press the skip to end button twice and you're at the beginning.

2 - Stop button? Just hit the left arrow button, that "stops" the show and takes you back to the menu. So I guess there is a stop button in a way. 

3 - Use the Tivo style guide, it is very fast.

4 - While true, it is due to bad guide data from the channel in question (re: TBS, USA, MTV are all top problem channels for example). A Replay TV or Ultimate TV unit would have the same issue (name based recording), however there are many work arounds and like you say, season passes in general beat out manual timers any day so I'll deal with it. Basically, get to know your programs and which ones have bad guide data and use workarounds with them.

I think the biggest challange for people coming into the Tivo world is a mind set of channel surfing. Let's face it, a DirecTivo is *not* meant as a channel surfing device and has it's major weaknesses in that area. Since I rarely channel surf, I never see these things. Took me about 3 months to really get out of that mode and just record everything. Not to say I don't channel surf and I honestly don't think it's that bad with the Tivo style guide, it's not something I do very often.

Good luck to all who switch!


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

bonscott87 said:


> 1- You only see the resume option if you left watching the recording in the middle. If you watched to the end and didn't delete it, it will simply give you the option to play it. As for getting back to the beginning, press the skip to end button twice and you're at the beginning.
> 
> 2 - Stop button? Just hit the left arrow button, that "stops" the show and takes you back to the menu. So I guess there is a stop button in a way.
> 
> ...


1. My kids like to watch the same shows over and over, so it's really annoying not being able to just start from the beginning.

2. I didn't know that - thanks for the info. I'm finding there are a lot of things like that on Tivo that aren't documented.

3. The Tivo guide isn't really helpful for what I want to do.

4. My old Replay unit had an easy workaround for this - when you set up a timer you had an option to select which days of the week it would look for the show. So I could tell it to just look for the Simpsons on Sundays and it would ignore the weekday ones.

I've been using PVRs for over 4 years now (2 years with a Replay unit and 2 years with a Dish Network 721) so I'm well into that mindset, and I watch almost everything recorded. But there are times when I do like to just flip through the guide and see if there is anything that I want to record and it's pretty much impossible on Tivo.

Dennis


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dbronstein said:


> 1. My kids like to watch the same shows over and over, so it's really annoying not being able to just start from the beginning.
> 
> 4. My old Replay unit had an easy workaround for this - when you set up a timer you had an option to select which days of the week it would look for the show. So I could tell it to just look for the Simpsons on Sundays and it would ignore the weekday ones.
> 
> ...


1 - I'd suggest this. Hit the skip to end button once then left arrow when done watching. This should reset it to the beginning when you go to it again. Obviously not the best for the kids, but you might be suprised how well they might learn to do this if you teach them. 

4 - You may not have found it yet but on a Tivo you can setup a "Manual Season Pass". This is basically just your average timer like a Dish PVR. So if you know your show is new every night at 7pm (but with tons of repeats, say Sportscenter) then setup a MSP for M-F at 7pm for 30 minutes (or whatnot). Not quite like the Replay but similar. I like the sounds of the Replay option though.

Probably just need to get used to the Tivo style guide. I find it very easy to pick things to record using the guide (however I would most likely just perform a search for it). The great thing about the Tivo guide is it show me all upcoming programs on each channel for the next 8-12+ hours. So for example I saw an ad for a show on at 10pm on channel 3. It's 5pm now. I hit guide, go to channel 3 and bam I see the program over on the right. Select it and record. Using the DirecTV grid style guide I'd have to arrow over quite a few times to move the entire guide to 10 pm so I can select it to record. Thus the Tivo style guide is much, much faster for me to find something and record it. The DirecTV style guide just annoys me to death as I can't find anything quickly (and it's not just because it's slow, I hate the grid on my non Tivo receiver as well). There is no wrong or right way, just all what you're used to I guess.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

1 - My kids aren't old enough to run the remote themselves yet, so I have to do it. I know how to do the skip back thing, but it's stupid that you have to do it that way.

4 - Yeah, I know you can set a manual timer. But doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of Tivo? I'm just finding it really funny after reading all the posts from Tivo users ragging on the Dish DVRs for the last 2 years for not having name-based recording that the suggested solution to a flaw in Tivo is to set up manual timers.

As for using the Tivo guide instead, I tried that and it's too cumbersome. Here's what I want to do: I have all the HBO and Cinemax channels free for 3 months. So I want to just scroll through the listings and see if there are any movies I want to record. I have no idea what's on, so I can't use search. On my Dish DVR what I could do was to open the guide to see 7 or 8 of the channels at once and then just scroll to the right and see the listings. Since the guide was very fast, this worked quite well. On the Tivo, it's almost impossible because every time I scroll, the guide blanks out and I have to wait for it to reappear. Using the Tivo guide is faster, but then you can only see one channel at a time.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

(Decloaking)

Try pressing DirecTV-4, selecting "Movies", then "Don't select a category". You can then scroll through a list of all the movies that are scheduled to be on for the next 14 days. 

The name-based recording is pretty good, but it's only as good as the information sent by the providers. In some cases, you need to use a manual timer such as recording the Wednesday morning show when the eliminated Amazing Race teams appear. 

(Cloaking)


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Mark Holtz said:


> The name-based recording is pretty good, but it's only as good as the information sent by the providers. In some cases, you need to use a manual timer such as recording the Wednesday morning show when the eliminated Amazing Race teams appear.


That's why I really don't get the problem I have with the Simpsons - the guide info clearly shows the reruns as reruns, at least from what I can see. They are dated 1998 or whatever, but I don't know what criteria it uses to differentiate.

As for using the movies list - that includes every single movie that's on any channel. I just want to see what's on the HBOs. I appreciate the suggestions but nothing is going to convince me that I shouldn't be able to just browse the guide easily.


----------



## TerryC (Jul 18, 2002)

Dennis, being new to Tivo you might not know this so forgive me if I sound like I'm talking down to you a bit. The default setting for season passes is for "First Runs & Repeats", so it's going to record syndicated reruns as well as the new airings that are broadcast by the networks. If you only want to it to record new episodes you have to manually reset the SP to "First Run Only". I'm sure you're bright enough to have realized this but it should be pointed out just in case. 

The guide mentioning a repeat is for our benefit. Tivo doesn't look at that word to decide if it should or shouldn't record a program based on your specifications. It looks at a code that we can't see, without enabling backdoors. 

Have you tried the HBO entry under the Showcases menu? Showcases is accessable via the DirecTV Central menu. It's not what you want but you may find it useful.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Lord Vader said:


> Or if you were real nice, you can ask someone who might have this.


In Feb. or March I'll be dropping Dish and going to Direct. I'll be getting an HD-Tivo and a normal Tivo.

Will it be clear how one "installs" one of these hacks?


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

It takes some effort, but it can be done. One can get a great "deal" if one looks up the "database" for some help.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

TerryC said:


> Dennis, being new to Tivo you might not know this so forgive me if I sound like I'm talking down to you a bit. The default setting for season passes is for "First Runs & Repeats", so it's going to record syndicated reruns as well as the new airings that are broadcast by the networks. If you only want to it to record new episodes you have to manually reset the SP to "First Run Only". I'm sure you're bright enough to have realized this but it should be pointed out just in case.


Yes, that's how I set up the SP and it still pulls up all the reruns.



TerryC said:


> The guide mentioning a repeat is for our benefit. Tivo doesn't look at that word to decide if it should or shouldn't record a program based on your specifications. It looks at a code that we can't see, without enabling backdoors.


That's what I figured.



TerryC said:


> Have you tried the HBO entry under the Showcases menu? Showcases is accessable via the DirecTV Central menu. It's not what you want but you may find it useful.


I just tried it - it lists all of 6 movies. I do appreciate the advice, thanks.


----------



## Guest (Dec 29, 2004)

Lord Vader said:


> Regarding #1, that is not accurate. You can increase the buffer on your DTIVO to 120 minutes if you so desire.


Can you tell me how?

Also, the user guide indicates that there is a 30-minute buffer for the current channel and the previous channel, but it doesn't seem to work for the previous channel. If I go back to it, there isn't a buffer.


----------



## Guest (Dec 29, 2004)

I didn't have a DVR when I had Dish Network, but the program guide was terrible. There were always a ton of "Info not available" blocks.


----------



## BuckeyeChris (Apr 20, 2004)

rcoleman111 said:


> I didn't have a DVR when I had Dish Network, but the program guide was terrible. There were always a ton of "Info not available" blocks.


This is not a problem now. I have never experienced this issue and I have had my 522 since March.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

rcoleman111 said:


> Can you tell me how?
> 
> Also, the user guide indicates that there is a 30-minute buffer for the current channel and the previous channel, but it doesn't seem to work for the previous channel. If I go back to it, there isn't a buffer.


It buffers both tuners. You can switch between tuners by hitting the Live TV button or the down arrow. If you change channels on the same tuner you lose the buffer.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

rcoleman111 said:


> Can you tell me how?
> 
> Also, the user guide indicates that there is a 30-minute buffer for the current channel and the previous channel, but it doesn't seem to work for the previous channel. If I go back to it, there isn't a buffer.


You'd have to upload a file to your unit. A guy named JBliss on another famous site wrote it. It's pretty easy to do if one is reasonably adept at working with Linux.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

I've said this before, but I really wish that we could get episode NUMBERS on the info screen. There are a lot of shows that I watch that are on at different times/channels, and it is very frustrating that you have no idea which program came first in a lot of cases. This would also solve many problems with the Season pass options, since it would only record an episode that it has not recorded yet. Such a small thing to ask for, and I have yet to see any system implement it.......


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

On the DirecTivo, when you select the program in the Now Playing list, hit the info (or display depending on remote) button. This will give you a lot of extended information including original air date. Not the same as episode number, but I use the air date at times to see if the episode is a new one or not if I'm not sure.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Yes, but most air dates only include the year. Or, if they do include the month, that's still 4-5 episodes. Having them numbered, which is how the studios do it, would be ideal.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Just what are you asking for? When a DTIVO records multiple episodes of the same show, it puts them in the now playing list in descending order, meaning the most recently recorded show is at the top. If you've got 6 episodes of CSI, for example, the one just recorded is near the top, while the one first recorded 6+ weeks ago is at the bottom. The episode names are listed, btw.

DTIVO's will do this same thing if an shows are on different channels at different times. Plus, the info includes date and time it was recorded, etc.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Lord Vader said:


> Just what are you asking for? When a DTIVO records multiple episodes of the same show, it puts them in the now playing list in descending order, meaning the most recently recorded show is at the top. If you've got 6 episodes of CSI, for example, the one just recorded is near the top, while the one first recorded 6+ weeks ago is at the bottom. The episode names are listed, btw.
> 
> DTIVO's will do this same thing if an shows are on different channels at different times. Plus, the info includes date and time it was recorded, etc.


But that's not necessarily putting them in episode order. Quite often on channels like Bravo and A&E where they have multiple airings, depending on what other conflicts you have, episodes get recorded out of order. For example, I just had this happen with Significant Others. I ended up recording episode 4 after episodes 5 and 6 because of conflicts with other SPs. If you look on the Bravo website when it shows the schedule, it says "Episode 201" and so on. It would be nice if that was in the guide description on the Tivo. And only episodes 1 and 2 have titles in the guide for some reason.

Dennis


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Ditto. Take Star Trek as an example. 79 episodes. And while it is not a big deal to watch them out of order, some shows, like Charmed, are confusing if watched out of order. For shows that are ended, like ST, it could say 73/79. And for currently ran shows, like ER, it could just list the episode #.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Well, that isn't a DTIVO problem, it's a problem for the broadcasters, or more likely, the syndicators, who could easily pass that info on to the end distributors.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Actually, there is no reason why TiVo couldn't implement it themselves. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to setup.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

It's a problem with the guide info, and I don't know who has ultimate responsibility for that. The Tivo unit can only work with the guide info it has.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

larrystotler said:


> Yes, but most air dates only include the year. Or, if they do include the month, that's still 4-5 episodes. Having them numbered, which is how the studios do it, would be ideal.


Maybe on older shows I guess. If you take a look at the latest new CSI for example it will say 12/23/04 or something like that. Maybe for shows from years ago it only gives month and year, but anything on the networks in the past few years will have the actual day it aired as the air date. Of course, this data is all provided by the network so if they don't give the exact day, nothing Tivo, Dish or Replay can do about it. Same thing for episode number.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

larrystotler said:


> Actually, there is no reason why TiVo couldn't implement it themselves. It wouldn't be that big of a deal to setup.


You do realize that there are thousands (if not tens of thousands) of episodes of shows on hundreds of channels every week, right? I guess if you want your monthly Tivo fee to be $50 they could hire a few dozen people to go through the archives and label the episode numbers. 

Guide data works like this:

Network ==> Tribune ==> Tivo/Replay/UTV/Dish

So ultimately whatever guide data you have is based on what the networks themselves provide.


----------



## bwarning (Aug 29, 2004)

It all depends on the stations giving all the guide info. for example hdnets info for the old hogans hero's gives the exact date that each episode first aired.


----------



## TerryC (Jul 18, 2002)

larrystotler said:


> Yes, but most air dates only include the year. Or, if they do include the month, that's still 4-5 episodes. Having them numbered, which is how the studios do it, would be ideal.


In the two years I've had Tivo I've never seen anything less than the month, day and year indicated, other than for movies. In the Now Playing list, select a program you've recorded and then press the right arrow key. This will get you to an info screen. At that point press the "Info" button and you'll get an expanded info screen. That will show the original air date of the episode. You really should learn how to use the machine BEFORE you complain.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

It would not be that difficult to collect the data and implement it themselves. They already charge way too much for their standard TiVo service, and screwed themselves with their D* contract since they don't get additional DVR fees. The nice thing it that it would only have to be entered 1 time. Maybe I will start a company and sell the data to TiVo and those guys.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

TerryC said:


> In the two years I've had Tivo I've never seen anything less than the month, day and year indicated, other than for movies. In the Now Playing list, select a program you've recorded and then press the right arrow key. This will get you to an info screen. At that point press the "Info" button and you'll get an expanded info screen. That will show the original air date of the episode. You really should learn how to use the machine BEFORE you complain.


Thanks for the tip.

Of course, this attitude is also what really annoys me about the Tivo zealots. Perhaps you could explain how new users are supposed to know about this (and other hidden features) when there is nothing on the first info screen telling you to hit Info for more details and it is not mentioned in the manual.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Well, this isn't a TIVO forum. Try the TIVO community forums or the dealdatabase forum. The former is geared for TIVO users and has a wealth of info there.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

larrystotler said:


> It would not be that difficult to collect the data and implement it themselves. They already charge way too much for their standard TiVo service, and screwed themselves with their D* contract since they don't get additional DVR fees. The nice thing it that it would only have to be entered 1 time. Maybe I will start a company and sell the data to TiVo and those guys.


Good luck. Honestly, if it could be done and was cost effective at the same time, Tivo would have done it 5 years ago.


----------



## TerryC (Jul 18, 2002)

dbronstein said:


> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Of course, this attitude is also what really annoys me about the Tivo zealots. Perhaps you could explain how new users are supposed to know about this (and other hidden features) when there is nothing on the first info screen telling you to hit Info for more details and it is not mentioned in the manual.


How am I being a "Tivo zealot"? The guy has done nothing but whine about every little thing without first getting to know his machine and complains about suggestions on workarounds. He even started a thread to complain when his Tivo didn't work a day or two after he first got it. Is that fair? He had his mind made up before he got the thing. I am not a Tivo snob. I don't know how my comments on HIM make me that. Maybe YOU should know what you're talking about first.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

TerryC said:


> How am I being a "Tivo zealot"? The guy has done nothing but whine about every little thing without first getting to know his machine and complains about suggestions on workarounds. He even started a thread to complain when his Tivo didn't work a day or two after he first got it. Is that fair? He had his mind made up before he got the thing. I am not a Tivo snob. I don't know how my comments on HIM make me that. Maybe YOU should know what you're talking about first.


You said " You really should learn how to use the machine BEFORE you complain." You're ripping on him for not knowing about undocumented features.


----------



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

I complained because it would figure that I, who already doesn't think much of the TiVo interface, would end up getting a bad unit. However, I did point out that I got it replaced, and that **** happens. I have said that there are good things about both the D*TiVo as well as the E* DVRs. There are also bad things about both systems. If I am whining, oh well.


----------

