# Potential Issue for those with DVR lifetime service.



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, apparently D* made a change a couple of months ago that could effect those with DVR lifetime and certain packages.

As of the past month or so, if you make any changes to your service (add a premium, drop a premium, etc.) the D* system will automatically put you in the package that it thinks you should have -- and the CSR's can't do anything about it.

Here's an example. I had "Choice Extra". I also had HD service and the DVR lifetime. I called in a month ago to add Showtime. Since I had Choice Extra and HD and a DVR, the system automatically changed my package to "Choice Extra + HD DVR".

Choice Extra was $60, Choice Extra + HD DVR is $75. If I was paying for HD and a DVR fee this would make sense. However, since I have lifetime DVR, it actually costs me more money this way.

I called CSR's several times over the last few weeks when I noticed the change and they all told me the same thing: There was nothing they could do about it. They system would not let them change my package. If they tried, it would automatically change back.

So, I sent an Email to Ellen. I received an Email back yesterday that they were able to go in and change my package back to Choice Extra.

Today, I called D* because I noticed I received a $10 premium cancellation fee a couple of weeks ago when I dropped HBO. Since I had HBO for several months I should not have received that charge.

When I called today, the CSR told me she'd credit my account the $10 (via $5 per month over 3 months). She then told me that my package would automatically change to Choice Extra + HD DVR when she did. I told her "NO", and explained that I've spent the last couple of weeks getting that package removed.

She was finally able to give a one time $10 credit without changing my package, but she told me that the system is now set up so that that package will automatically change if my account set-up is changed. So, if I add Sunday Ticket it will change again. If I add HBO back again it will change. If I drop Showtime, it will change.

This sucks for me, because I add and drop premium channels all the time and every time I do, apparently my package will change and there's nothing he CSR's will be able to do about it.

I have a feeling that Ellen is going to be very familiar with me as I'll probably be sending her Emails every month now.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Stew, that sucks. You wrote that the package will change if your "account set-up" is changed. Does that including adding equipment, like a new DVR? 

I have the grandfathered Premiere package which includes the DVR service for free, but it would seem to me that if I deactivate or active a receiver, my package would change to the current Premiere package, minus the free DVR service, so that would be billed separately.

This new change may affect more than just DVR lifetime service - it sounds like it could affect any grandfathered service...


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> Stew, that sucks. You wrote that the package will change if your "account set-up" is changed. Does that including adding equipment, like a new DVR?


I believe so. All the CSR's I spoke with made it sound like as soon as they would do anything to my account (which including adding a premier, dropping a premier, and giving me a credit), my package would automatically change.

Now, whether this will effect Grandfathered Premiere packages or not, I don't know. But I believe it will effect anyone that has DVR lifetime (as a line item).


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> ...the CSR told me she'd credit my account the $10 (via $5 per month over 3 months).


now THAT sounds like a plan.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

thank you for the info. I'll have to keep this in mind since I DO have lifetime DVR service.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

New system working the bugs out apparently. This with the MLBEI issue and locals being turned on.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Dont know when this started, but I removed two movie channels from my Total Choice plus about month ago, and my Lifetime DVR is still showing on my account.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, I had sent another Email expressing my concern that anyone with Lifetime and Total Choice would experience problems any time they made changes to their account.

Today, I received a phone call from Directv's Office of the President. They told me that they are aware of the issue and are working to remove that glitch from the system so that CSR's have the ability to change packages back to Total Choice if needed.

She told me that in the mean time, if I need to make changes to my account, I should call the Office of the President directly since most of their computers already have this ability.

She did not have a timeframe for when it would be fixed for all CSR's.

Overall, a very pleasant conversation with Jessica from the Directv Customer Advocate Team.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

spartanstew, Would you consider doing an Edit on your original post to say "Resolved, see later post."? Might ease some angst.



spartanstew said:


> Well, I had sent another Email expressing my concern that anyone with Lifetime and Total Choice would experience problems any time they made changes to their account.
> 
> Today, I received a phone call from Directv's Office of the President. They told me that they are aware of the issue and are working to remove that glitch from the system so that CSR's have the ability to change packages back to Total Choice if needed.
> 
> ...


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

richlife said:


> spartanstew, Would you consider doing an Edit on your original post to say "Resolved, see later post."? Might ease some angst.


It's not resolved yet.

If someone with lifetime and Choice calls a CSR for any change to their account, their package will automatically change. And currently the CSR's will still not be able to do anything about it.


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

Still isn't fixed. It looks like they really don't want to keep honoring the lifetime DVR service. They messed up my subscription and after 5 business days still haven't fixed it.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, it happened again.

I called a few weeks ago to cancel NFLST. Low and behold, when I saw my bill today, that cancellation automatically triggered my account to change from Choice Extra to Choice Extra + HD DVR.

Altogether it was an overcharge of $12, so had to send another Email to Ellen's team.

I sure wish they'd get this issue fixed.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

spartanstew said:


> Well, it happened again.
> 
> I called a few weeks ago to cancel NFLST. Low and behold, when I saw my bill today, that cancellation automatically triggered my account to change from Choice Extra to Choice Extra + HD DVR.
> 
> ...


Why all the emails? Why dont you just call the Vice President of Customer Service's number? They are the ones that can change this stuff for you. I wouldnt bother with the emails all the time as it would take longer to get what you need done. They go to her and are then sent to someone in her office and then they respond.
If you made the phone call you would be done in minutes and not worry about it. Your bill would never be wrong.

I hate to say it but I guess you are gonna have to really fight to keep grandfathered status anymore. Kind of makes sence. They really want people off the old packages. I think people are lucky they will let you keep a grandfathered status instead of just saying this is the new package take it or leave it.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

joshjr said:


> Why all the emails? Why dont you just call the Vice President of Customer Service's number? They are the ones that can change this stuff for you. I wouldnt bother with the emails all the time as it would take longer to get what you need done. They go to her and are then sent to someone in her office and then they respond.
> If you made the phone call you would be done in minutes and not worry about it. Your bill would never be wrong.


Mainly because it's easier to shoot off an Email than to call, especially since I usually take care of this stuff at this time and they rarely answer the VPCS number at 11:00pm. I usually get an Email response the next day and it's sorted out.



joshjr said:


> I hate to say it but I guess you are gonna have to really fight to keep grandfathered status anymore. Kind of makes sence. They really want people off the old packages. I think people are lucky they will let you keep a grandfathered status instead of just saying this is the new package take it or leave it.


Yes, except for my account still shows DVR - Lifetime, so that hasn't gone away. They just keep charging me for the next package with every change.

This is really going to be an issue in a couple of months when I'm planning on switching back and forth between Showtime and HBO every 10 days or so. Gonna take a lot of calls and Emails.


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## flexpackman (Sep 29, 2007)

Just to keep those informed, it's not fixed as of several weeks ago. I also have a grandfathered Premiere package and have an ongoing saga.

Last month, I had to get a replacement HR20 for a failed unit. This was not my primary receiver either. When the replacement unit arrived, I called a CSR and explained that I had a replacement unit to activate for a failed one. Replacement came up and I thought all was good. Looked at my account the next day and had a billing for an additional receiver:nono:. The failed unit was still activated on my account. Called again and explained the situation to the CSR. She removed it and put in a credit for the billing. Checked the next day and the credit showed up as well as a new charge for monthly DVR service.

After 5 separate phone calls, all agreeing that I should not be billed and promising to "escalate" it for correction, I'm now waiting on the email response from the "Throne" office....


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

I thought you had to keep a premium for 30 days or be charged a $10 fee.

You realize that based on their TOS they can eliminate the old packages whenever they want, change rates and terms whenever they want and generally do whatever they want whenever they want and you won't have a squawk. Sooner rather then later they will get rid of the old packages as well. I would assume a "lifetime" DVR fee falls under the same category as "unlimited" data on a cellphone as well. They might decide to say it was meant only for TiVo's and therefore if you have an HR you're SOL. "They" control the vertical and the horizontal and you can only bend over and take it (or leave - and pay the ETF of course). You're on borrowed time. 



spartanstew said:


> This is really going to be an issue in a couple of months when I'm planning on switching back and forth between Showtime and HBO every 10 days or so. Gonna take a lot of calls and Emails.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

TBlazer07 said:


> I thought you had to keep a premium for 30 days or be charged a $10 fee.


yes, you have to keep "a" premium. You can switch them back and forth.



TBlazer07 said:


> You realize that based on their TOS they can eliminate the old packages whenever they want, change rates and terms whenever they want and generally do whatever they want whenever they want and you won't have a squawk.


Yep, they can change just about anything, but in this case they haven't eliminated lifetime DVR, there's just a glitch in their system that removes it accidentally whenever changes are made.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> I thought you had to keep a premium for 30 days or be charged a $10 fee.
> 
> You realize that based on their TOS they can eliminate the old packages whenever they want, change rates and terms whenever they want and generally do whatever they want whenever they want and you won't have a squawk. Sooner rather then later they will get rid of the old packages as well. I would assume a "lifetime" DVR fee falls under the same category as "unlimited" data on a cellphone as well. They might decide to say it was meant only for TiVo's and therefore if you have an HR you're SOL. "They" control the vertical and the horizontal and you can only bend over and take it (or leave - and pay the ETF of course). You're on borrowed time.


Actually, unlike changing a package, they have to change their service agreement before they can eliminate the "lifetime" DVR. I'm sure they have a clause in their service agreement that they can change the service agreement at any time, so in effect they can eliminate it if/when they want to. However, it would be a two step process unlike changing a package that does not need a service agreement change.

As long as they keep the "lifetime" DVR in the service agreement, we need to make sure that they follow their own policy.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

flexpackman said:


> ...
> After 5 separate phone calls, all agreeing that I should not be billed and promising to "escalate" it for correction, I'm now waiting on the email response from the "Throne" office....


After activating a new receiver a few months ago, the lifetime was taken off mine as well. I emailed through the website and quickly got a message back that they would change it, but it took another week and a half to change it. It was long enough that I emailed again to make sure that I hadn't fallen through the cracks.

This made not sense to me, since the email stated that they had researched it, and I was due the change. I kept thinking that the research should be the time consuming part. The actual change shouldn't take more than 5 minutes on a computer. Do they have a separate data entry department for these changes? Why is the department so backed up that they need a week lead time? I'm thinking they are profitable enough to hire a few more data entry operators.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Well, apparently D* made a change a couple of months ago that could effect those with DVR lifetime and certain packages.
> 
> As of the past month or so, if you make any changes to your service (add a premium, drop a premium, etc.) the D* system will automatically put you in the package that it thinks you should have -- and the CSR's can't do anything about it.
> 
> ...


I never even heard of "Lifetime DVR".. I assume there is a cost benefit. How much do you save by choosing it? Tell me more..


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## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

n3ntj said:


> I never even heard of "Lifetime DVR".. I assume there is a cost benefit. How much do you save by choosing it? Tell me more..


Lifetime DVR was offered back in 2001 for $299 per DVR (TiVo DVR). When DirecTV took over control of these subscriptions from TiVo they changed it to be valid per account and eventually terminated any further sales. Those who purchased back then reached break even point after 50 months use at the current $6 DVR rate and now continue to enjoy the savings.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

I addeded a HDDVR to my account in 01/05/09 replaced a SD receiver (not my Primary one and did not lose my DVR (free) in 02/15/09 I added a Second HDDVR and tried to replace another NON -primary SD receiver, The Luck of draw) CSR I got Stripped my entire account and was uable to get my service back so she hung up on me after an hour of my complining of losing total service and my (FREE DVR SERVICE).

I called back in (as many here always do) explained what had been going on and at that time the CSR said "I know what to do" placed me on hold. rearranged my Receivers primary and secondary, returned my TV service in full and my Free DVR service is still intact.

I don't plan on ever changing anything again! Not until 02/16/11 when I'm thru with my indenture service.


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## flexpackman (Sep 29, 2007)

Well I just got an email indicating that my account had been restored with free DVR Service. The reason given was that "you did not request the change to your base package" . 

I checked my online account and indeed the charges I incurred have been credited back to my account. The only thing that looks different on my account from before all this happened is the normal nomenclature used for the free DVR service is not phrased the same now. 

I guess the "proof of the pudding" is what happens in the next billing cycle.....


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## diagoro (Aug 17, 2006)

A bit of my experience to add, though in my case, it's in regards to the DVR fee with Premier. I've had the Premier package since 2004. About six months ago there were a few changes on the account after which I started being charged the dvr fee.

Numerous calls and emals later I ended up with someone in the Customer Advocacy Team (after sending Ellen Filipiak an email). The result was a credit to cover the past six months BUT she also stated that the grandfathered credit in terms of the Premier package was being phased out and would no longer be offered. 

Simple as that. As someone stated above, they can do what they want, when they want.......


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

They did it to me again. I called in because my "free" showtime wasn't actually activated. I asked for a credit against Super Fan instead. The first CSR was very pleasant and gave me a discount.

Before she applied the discount I reminded her that I had lifetime DVR service and please be careful that my package doesn't change from Choice Extra to Choice Extra + HD DVR. But what do you know. It changed.

I called back and the knowledgeable CSR told me that there was no such thing as lifetime dvr once you get an HD DVR. Her supervisor told me the same thing and hung up on me.

I am on the line with retention right now. At least this person knows what lifetime dvr service is.


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## LOCODUDE (Aug 8, 2007)

MountainMan10 said:


> They did it to me again. I called in because my "free" showtime wasn't actually activated. I asked for a credit against Super Fan instead. The first CSR was very pleasant and gave me a discount.
> 
> Before she applied the discount I reminded her that I had lifetime DVR service and please be careful that my package doesn't change from Choice Extra to Choice Extra + HD DVR. But what do you know. It changed.
> 
> ...


WOW!!! I guess the saga continues.....


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

I sent an email of to [email protected]. I expect it will get resolved. All they need to do is take a look at my last 84 bills to see the Lifetime DVR service.

They bill me through Qwest. The bozo at retention told me I need to call them. I told him to see what was done last month and just do the same thing. There is no way Qwest could do anything about this.

The supervisor told me I lost my Lifetime DVR when I upgraded my Tivo. While she is incorrect, the argument is plausible, except I never upgraded my Tivo. I still have the Tivo for which I orginally purchased the lifetime service.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

MountainMan10 said:


> I sent an email of to [email protected]. I expect it will get resolved. All they need to do is take a look at my last 84 bills to see the Lifetime DVR service.
> 
> They bill me through Qwest. The bozo at retention told me I need to call them. I told him to see what was done last month and just do the same thing. There is no way Qwest could do anything about this.
> 
> The supervisor told me I lost my Lifetime DVR when I upgraded my Tivo. While she is incorrect, the argument is plausible, except I never upgraded my Tivo. I still have the Tivo for which I orginally purchased the lifetime service.


As you no doubt know .. 'DIRECTV DVR Service Lifetime' stays with the account as long as DIRECTV service is maintained. The product is no longer available to new subscribers, but those that have it .. still have it.

It will vanish from your bill if you add a package that includes DVR service .. You can't have "Lifetime" and "with package" DVR service at the same time for some reason :shrug: (Again, you know this). You do not have to have any TiVos on your account.


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> As you no doubt know .. 'DIRECTV DVR Service Lifetime' stays with the account as long as DIRECTV service is maintained. The product is no longer available to new subscribers, but those that have it .. still have it.
> 
> It will vanish from your bill if you add a package that includes DVR service .. You can't have "Lifetime" and "with package" DVR service at the same time for some reason :shrug: (Again, you know this). You do not have to have any TiVos on your account.


I know it, but the CSR and her Supervisor, and the other CSR's around her didn't know it.

To add insult to injury I asked her to look at what was done last month. She said she did and that my request for reinstatement of Lifetime DVR service was denied. What a joke. I have the bill proving it was reinstated. When I pointed that out she hung up on me.

I have generally been a supporter of D* and their CSR's but this time they reached as low as others have reported.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

MountainMan,

Now, if I need to call D* for any reason, I use the Customer Advocacy phone number that they gave me last time I had this issue. They're the only ones that can override the automatic change to the Choice+DVR+HD package that will occur every time you change something on your package. Unfortunately, I don't have the number with me, but if you still need it, let me know this weekend and I'll send it to you. They handle things very quickly.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

I don't have "lifetime" DVR service and I even relinquished my Total Choice Plus package a couple years ago to take advantage of several free upgrade offers. But I think it is very unfair and a terrible business practice to make loyal old customers jump through hoops to retain a deal promised to them years ago due to efforts to end all "grandfathered" scenarios.


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

Now they restored my Lifetime DVR service and Choice Extra, but in the process they dropped my HD service.

I too switched from Total Choice Plus to Choice Extra a while back so I could use the website and avoid problems like this. Imagine if I still had it. Then I would be fighting to keep that too.


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

Got a call from D* this morning. They have straightened out my account. Should be fine as long as I don't call in for any discounts.

The caller told me that my Lifetime DVR is tied to the Tivo because I bought it with the Tivo before D* offered Lifetime DVR service. We will see what happens when the Tivo gets replaced. I have had 8 years of service off of it and I bought the Lifetime service when it was only $199. So I have already got my money's worth.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

MountainMan10 said:


> Got a call from D* this morning. They have straightened out my account. Should be fine as long as I don't call in for any discounts.
> 
> The caller told me that my Lifetime DVR is tied to the Tivo because I bought it with the Tivo before D* offered Lifetime DVR service. We will see what happens when the Tivo gets replaced. I have had 8 years of service off of it and I bought the Lifetime service when it was only $199. So I have already got my money's worth.


I got rid of my D*Tivo long ago.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

MountainMan10 said:


> Got a call from D* this morning. They have straightened out my account. Should be fine as long as I don't call in for any discounts.
> 
> The caller told me that my Lifetime DVR is tied to the Tivo because I bought it with the Tivo before D* offered Lifetime DVR service. We will see what happens when the Tivo gets replaced. I have had 8 years of service off of it and I bought the Lifetime service when it was only $199. So I have already got my money's worth.


They are wrong.

Ask them to read Section 7 of the Customer Agreement word-for-word with you.



"DirecTV customer agreement -- http://www.directv.com/legal" said:


> If you paid a lifetime service fee, you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.


NOWHERE does it mention TiVo. It's for "DIRECTV DVR Service". Point, set, match.


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## tritch (Jan 15, 2008)

Will any simple update to your account like an address/phone number change trigger a package/DVR lifetime change as well? I too have been grandfathered with DVR Lifetime and an old Total Choice package but don't want any changes to take place in doing so. Looking at some of the other threads, it seems like Directv is on a campaign lately to eliminate grandfathered packages where possible. It's been several months since this thread started and yet still no fix to their billing system......me thinks they are up to a little trickery.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Not sure if a change that minor will do anything or not. You could try calling to make the change and ask the rep if that changes your package. If it does, tell them you don't want to make the change.


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## jjkoe3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Are we talking about the leased receiver charge or is there a DVR service charge that is seperate. Please say that I should not have been paying $6 X 3 receivers for the past 3 years. Actually the primary has been credited for that time.
I remember arguing with them over this and giving up. The lifetime DVR line has been on my bill throughout. Oh I have all HR*'s now. I need to edit my sig.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

You actually should NOT be paying $6 for EACH DVR anyway - you do realize D* only charges ONE DVR fee per account, regardless of how many you have. If you have lifetime, you should NOT be paying ANY extra DVR fees, period.

Now if you are talking about the $5 lease &/or additional receiver fee, then those are legit - are you SURE it's even $6 a box you're seeing???


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

I would expect a revision if and when the new Tivo ever comes out.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

I will hopefully be extending my TiVo lifetime subscription to the new DVR once I get my hands on it.


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## jjkoe3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Dishrich: Here is a copy and paste of my bill. You can see the liftime and a charge for each receiver.

Current Charges for Service Period 09/19/09 - 10/18/09 

09/19 10/18 PREMIER Monthly 109.99 

09/19 10/18 DIRECTV Protection Plan Monthly 5.99 

09/19 10/18 HD Access Monthly 10.00 

09/18 10/17 NFL SUNDAY TICKET 2009 Regular Season in 5 Payments 59.99 

09/18 05/17 NFL SUNDAY TICKET SuperFan 09 Special Free Offer 0.00 

09/19 10/18 DIRECTV DVR Service Lifetime 0.00 

09/19 10/18 DIRECTV on DEMAND Tune to Ch. 1000 for more info 0.00 

09/19 PPV: Boxing: Mayweather/Marquez HD-LI on receiver 1959-685189 59.95 


Fees 

09/19 Phone System Transaction Fee 1.50 

09/18 HD-DVR Upgrade 99.00 

09/20 Leased Receiver 5.00 

09/20 Leased Receiver 5.00 

09/20 Primary Leased Receiver 5.00 


Adjustments & Credits 

09/17 12 Month Programming Credit -10.00 Credit 

09/20 Primary Leased Receiver -5.00 Credit 


Taxes 

Sales Tax 1.38 


AMOUNT DUE $347.80


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

jjkoe3 said:


> Dishrich: Here is a copy and paste of my bill. You can see the liftime and a charge for each receiver.
> 
> 09/20 Leased Receiver 5.00
> 
> ...


Right, & here is what you posted in your previous post:



> Please say that I should not have been paying $6 X 3 receivers for the past 3 years.


And that's why I questioned you being charged *6.00* per receiver - obviously, what you originally posted is not correct?  

But, your bill IS correct, including the lifetime DVR fee - these are all receiver lease charges, NOT DVR fees - big difference. So I don't see what's wrong with your bill?


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## jjkoe3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Ahh
Right


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## BHYDE-1 (Nov 2, 2007)

jjkoe3 said:


> Dishrich: Here is a copy and paste of my bill. You can see the liftime and a charge for each receiver.
> 
> Current Charges for Service Period 09/19/09 - 10/18/09
> 
> ...


I am one of those people with the Premier Package for several years. Free DVR service was provided. A couple of years ago I started reading in this forum about DirecTV ending free DVR service but grandfathering people with the premier package from before. I continued not to be charged for it until September 08 when a charge appeared on my bill. I called, spoke to someone and they fixed the problem. For the next year it appeared both as a charge and a DVR service credit. But in September 09 there was no credit. I called, complained again, and then got a letter from DirecTV that they had credited my account for free DVR service for a year, which would be shown on my next bill. I just got the October 09 bill and sure enough it has 13 credits, one for the current months and then 12 others. I called today and they said they don't have a way to give the service credit on a monthly basis or to have it continhe to appear for free.

But now I see your posting.

How do I get DirecTV to treat my account correctly?


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

If you have the DVR Lifetime you need to write to Ellen.
I you simply had the DVR service included with the Premier you are probably out of luck. The DVR Lifetime came with the purchase of a Tivo with lifetime service or with the purchase of lifetime DVR service during the time when it was offered. The lifetime DVR service was a one time fee of about $200.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

Did it to me today. 
Had my hard drive fail in my primary hr23-700. Called 4 days ago and a replacement was ordered and shipped.
Arrived today via fedex. Called activated and deactivated the old. Checked my account and bam 6$ dvr charge. Did not change package but just the Primary receiver so they had to deactivate and reactivate causing the account change. 

I called an got case management. Lady was very nice. Told her the issue and how previously I had this issues and escalation had to be done to fix it. She put me on hold to get her supervisors permission to escalate the issue and send the email ahead to fix the problem. Comes back and says that she is not allowed to for my package was changed and im not allowed to have it. I say i had it this morning. She puts me on hold and talks to the supervisor. Comes back and says was for tivo only and offers me a 72$ 1 year credit and after the credit i will have to pay for it. I say no, I want my lifetime back. I explain that I have Ultimate tv still. Go on hold comes back and says the supervisor still says no and it was a limited time offer. I say what part of lifetime does the supervisor not understand. Also state i had this issue 2 months ago when my old primary utv died and was replaced by an r22. I said its all right there. Lady still really nice and apologetic says her supervisor is not cooperating offers me the 72$ credit again and she will call me back when she talks to the supervisor. 
Lady calls back. States the supervisor will not allow her to send it to escalation for my package they fixed last time was not supposed to be put back for it was not a qualifying package. I said what? Escalation is above your boss. She says yes but i cant do it without her approval. Offered me the 72$ credit again and i declined again and said ill call later. She said have a nice day and I said thanks.
Im calling in the morning.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

My, I have a better phone number that will help you out, but I'm not at home right now. If you don't get it resolved by tomorrow, send me a PM and I'll give you the phone number when I get home tomorrow afternoon.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

Thank You!

Great csr story for a change and way better then yesterday. 
I called this morning and asked for retention instead of using my case management number. Told the nice lady what was going on and she said sure I will send the escalation, no problem. She was FAST! Whole phone call from dial to goodbye was apx 3 minutes. Now its just the waiting game. Last time it took 14 business days or 19 actual days for it to be fixed. I know because every several days i would check it and call to see. After 3 calls last time a tech told me it would be up to 15 business days due to backlog ect and it would just be fixed and if there was a problem I would be called. I waited and it was fixed, last time. Hope it works like that this time but a little faster would be really nice. 

So now ill wait and hope i dont get another Phone call. 

spartanstew
Thank you for the offer! I think i will give them a chance to fix it before i take drastic measures. Unless you think it could be fixed today with no wait? 

Except for the supervisor yesterday I have been treated fairly. The csr bent over backwards yesterday and was very helpful even though all that was needed was an email. 


I wonder why they are having this big push lately to do away with lifetime dvr? Maybe the new Tivo is causing cost issues and they want to milk it. Could be alot of reasons. Just irritating that the csr does not even know when it happens. That is what really makes me mad. All new charges should be available to the csr when things change and not left to the subscriber to find out when checking their bill. Thats so underhanded.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I actually had this issue in the past month .. All is fixed now .. I just called a regular CSR explained the problem. He posted the information but explained that it would take 7-10 days as he was not able to process it. Seems it takes special permission to fix this issue, so it's probably a good thing that the number of folks affected are relatively small.

In any event, about 14 days after the initial conversation, changes were made and the bill is back to normal. I received e-mail confirmation of the change and I actually noticed it happen as we were watching TV when the HD service went out for about 1 minute. It was about 7am local time when that happened.


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

I guess i'll never be able to add a preminum channel,because i'll lose my lifetime dvr service,actually i had this happen once before after a few calls they gave it back to me when i said i would leave when my contract was up. It was very stressful trying to explain what i had ,and the csrs not beleiving or saying theres nothing they could do about it. now i'm stuck in not being able to get starz or hbo,for fear of losing my lifetime dvr service also,so directv loses out on getting MORE MONEY from me!!


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

my1423 said:


> I wonder why they are having this big push lately to do away with lifetime dvr? Maybe the new Tivo is causing cost issues and they want to milk it. Could be alot of reasons. Just irritating that the csr does not even know when it happens. That is what really makes me mad. All new charges should be available to the csr when things change and not left to the subscriber to find out when checking their bill. Thats so underhanded.


To my knowledge, DirecTV has not had any situations where they have offered any lifetime DVR service since the earlier days of TiVo. I'm thinking it was my very first DirecTiVo (probably going on ten years ago) that I signed up for the Lifetime Service. The difference between that and TiVo was that TiVo's lifetime service was tied to specific receivers (with very few, if any, opportunites to transfer that lifetime service to another unit) and not an account-wide lifetime service.

That DirecTiVo has long since been deactivated from my account, and I currently have just one TiVo product (an HR10-250) still active, with a half-dozen HR2x's.

I'm guessing that the lifetime DVR service coding (or whatever) is going the way of the discontinued packages in that there probably isn't the coding "out front" (if at all) available to the front-line CSRs, or used so seldom now by them that it tends to get messed up (especially CSRs that are new enough now that they may have never even heard of or dealt with it before). I don't know that its so much "underhanded" as it is a matter of it being pretty much a "discontinued product" for which there is little support.

I've never had UltimateTV, so I can't speak to any of those issues. I have had the opportunity a couple of times in the past to transfer Lifetime TiVo service between a couple of stand-alone TiVos. I am still getting Lifetime DVR service now on my DirecTV account. I'm also still getting Total Choice Plus (I think that's what the discontinued package is called ). As time passes, I have mixed feelings about some of this stuff in terms of how long I can expect some of these things to live on. TiVo was always clear that Lifetime Service on their units was the life of the UNIT, not my lifetime. The more time that goes by, the more I am OK with (resigned to?) the fact that these things are also not MY lifetime. I hope I don't have to put that to the test any time soon!


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

I have had Dtv since early 98. When i got married we turned it off do to financial reasons for a short time. In 2004 my wife reactivated some of my old equipment for she could not live without it at the time. I wish i would have turned it on for then it would show 98 as my start date. She just paid the 20$ for a new card and went month to month. Kind of glad she did at the time for i was in tv withdrawals. We have never been in contract till this year. Lifetime dvr has been around for a long time. If you ever purchased a Tivo or Ultimate Tv you got it. Back in the day Directv announced that Anyone who purchased one of these dvrs would get lifetime dvr service and would never be charged for it. This is for a simple reason. Tivo and Ultimate tv have a monthly service subscription. If they charge its double dipping. Dvr service from dtv still to this day does nothing to activate Ultimate TV. 

This originally did not even show up on anyone's bills. My account at one time never said dvr service. Then one day it just appeared as included. Then that changed to free. Then it said cost 0$. This is all prior to receiving any dtv brand Dvr. 

Do any of you remember the promotions for free dvr service if you switch to Directv today? They were Directv branded commercials with fine print on the bottom. Fine print did say subscription to tivo or Ultimate tv may be required but did say LIFETIME. Farther into the fine print it said lifetime of good standing active account. I have not canceled. Still free.


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## my1423 (May 16, 2009)

Great news! Just checked my account and it is fixed! Lifetime dvr 0.00$ 

Wow that was fast! Thought for sure it would take 2 weeks again.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

celticpride said:


> I guess i'll never be able to add a preminum channel,because i'll lose my lifetime dvr service


I sure have never had that problem - I've added/deleted premiums many a time even recently & have NEVER lost my lifetime. True, I can't do it on-line, but it's NOT a big deal to call up & have a CSR do it, either.


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## tritch (Jan 15, 2008)

I had to deactivate one of my HD DVR's today. As soon as the change was made, the lifetime DVR service was removed and the standard $6 fee showed up. I sent an email to Ellen to get it resolved. Hopefully, it will get fixed quickly. It's pretty obvious to me they are not abiding by their service agreement by the fact that haven't fixed the billing system yet. The service agreement is very clear:

_If you paid a lifetime service fee, you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service._


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

my1423 said:


> Great news! Just checked my account and it is fixed! Lifetime dvr 0.00$
> 
> Wow that was fast! Thought for sure it would take 2 weeks again.


Glad it worked out.


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## tritch (Jan 15, 2008)

Just an update....

I got an email from the Customer Advocate Team just a few hours after sending the email to Ellen and the lifetime DVR service has been reinstated to my account. Wow, that was quicker than I thought it would be. I'm sure glad that I didn't have to go through the normal frontline customer service to get this resolved.


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

So is everyone who had "Premier Service" in the summer of 2007 when D* added their "DVR Service fee" ($6 / month) and were "Grandfathered" in (not being charge the fee) now being charged the $6/month fee? Or is it just hit or miss at this point ... like if a change is made to your account?

I was never notified of any change and am being charged the fee (had D* Premier package since 1997)...


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

cbaker said:


> So is everyone who had "Premier Service" in the summer of 2007 when D* added their "DVR Service fee" ($6 / month) and were "Grandfathered" in (not being charge the fee) now being charged the $6/month fee? Or is it just hit or miss at this point ... like if a change is made to your account?
> 
> I was never notified of any change and am being charged the fee (had D* Premier package since 1997)...


I've had Premier service with free DVR service for many years, and in that time I've added and subtracted various hardware, including upgrading to a HD Dish and adding HD DVRs and deactivating some SD equipment, and I've added and subtracted various programming to/from my base Premier package, all without losing the free DVR service.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Wow this thread really blew up.

Im too lazy to look and see if someone mentioned this but it's important for all of you to know:

DirecTV.com/Legal

7. DIRECTV® DVR SERVICE

DIRECTV DVR Service is a separately sold service, at our rates in effect at the time, available to customers with DVR-enabled Receiving Equipment. DIRECTV DVR Service gives you the ability to see and record televised programs (Third Party Content). You understand that DIRECTV does not guarantee the access to or recording of any particular program, or the length of time any particular recorded program may remain available for your viewing. You also understand that Third Party Content is the copyrighted material of the third party that supplies it, is protected by copyright and other applicable laws, and may not be reproduced, published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the written permission of the third party that supplied it, except to the extent allowed under the fair use provisions of the U.S. copyright laws or comparable provisions of foreign laws. You agree that DIRECTV will have no liability to you, or anyone else who uses your DIRECTV DVR Service, with regard to any Third Party Content. DIRECTV may, at its discretion, from time to time change, add or remove features of the DIRECTV DVR Service, or change the service fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.

We generally use local telephone calls to provide the DIRECTV DVR Service. You are responsible for such telephone charges and acknowledge and agree that you shall be solely responsible for all disputes with any telephone company related to the same.

**If you paid a lifetime service fee, you will not be charged a fee for your DIRECTV DVR Service as long as you maintain television programming service from DIRECTV on the same account. If you disconnect your DIRECTV television programming service and later reconnect on the same account, your DIRECTV DVR Service will be reconnected and you will not be charged a fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.**

By receiving the DIRECTV DVR Service, you agree to the following license. The term "Software" shall include any updates, modified versions, additions and copies of certain software for the DIRECTV DVR Service (or your Receiving Equipment) that may be provided by DIRECTV from time to time. The term "End User Documentation" shall mean the documentation and related explanatory written materials provided to you in connection with licensing by you of any Software. DIRECTV grants to you a non-exclusive license to use the Software, provided that you agree to the following:

(a) License Grant. You may use the Software solely in executable code form and solely in conjunction with the use of your Receiving Equipment.

(b) Restrictions. You may not copy, modify, transfer, disseminate or publish the Software, or any copy thereof, in whole or in part. You may not reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or translate the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code of the Software, except to the extent allowed under any applicable law. Any attempt to transfer any of the rights, duties or obligations of this license agreement is void. You may not rent, lease, load, resell for profit or distribute the Software, or any part thereof.

(c) Ownership. The Software is licensed, not sold, to you solely for your use under the terms of this license agreement, and DIRECTV and its suppliers reserve all rights not expressly granted to you. You shall own the media, if any, on which Software or End User Documentation is recorded, but DIRECTV and its suppliers retain ownership of all copies of the Software itself.

(d) Reservation of Rights. Except as stated above, this license agreement does not grant to you any intellectual property rights in the Software.

(e) Term. If you breach any term or condition of this license agreement, this license agreement will terminate immediately upon notice to you.

(f) Warranty Disclaimer. NEITHER DIRECTV NOR ANY OF ITS REPRESENTATIVES MAKES OR PASSES ON TO YOU OR OTHER THIRD PARTIES ANY WARRANTY OR REPRESENTATION ON BEHALF OF DIRECTV OR ITS SUPPLIERS (INCLUDING TIVO) WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS.

(g) Limitation of Liability. IN NO EVENT WILL DIRECTV OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFITS OR LOST SAVINGS, EVEN IF DIRECTV OR ITS SUPPLIERS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, OR FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY THIRD PARTY. Some states or jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental, consequential or special damages, so the above limitations may not apply to you.

(h) Third-Party Beneficiary. DIRECTV and you expressly acknowledge and agree that TiVo, Inc., a Delaware corporation with its principal place of business at 2160 Gold Street , Alviso , CA 95002 , is an intended third-party beneficiary of this license agreement as it relates to TiVo Software that may be contained in the Receiving Equipment. These license provisions are made expressly for the benefit of TiVo and are enforceable by TiVo in addition to DIRECTV.


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Wow this thread really blew up.
> 
> Im too lazy to look and see if someone mentioned this but it's important for all of you to know:
> 
> ...


This is something different. There are two issues here:
1) Those that paid a "lifetime service fee".
2) Those that had and continued to maintain "Premier Service" in June of 2007 when DirecTV instituted the DVR fee and were "Grandfathered" in.

I am referring to #2. People under #1 seem to be able to call in if for some reason they end up getting charged the fee and get it resolved. Customer Service Reps (CSRs) typically know of this exception to the fee and can typically get it taken care of without issue. It is even spelled out the legal doc you posted.

The 2nd case is more problematic. Even though we were grandfathered in, (and there are archived postings here and other places about being grandfathered in and not having to pay the fee back in 2007), some of us have been quietly charged the fee without notice and when we try to get it corrected, are finding it increasingly difficult to get it fixed. I was upset about the fee back in 2007 but was assured I would not have to pay it since I have been a long time user of the Premier Level Package (1997), but in Jan 2009, I noticed I had been charged for 5 or so months and was able to get the credit back. They said they fixed it too so I would not be charged. But I noticed recently they did not and have gone round and round (hours on the phone) trying to get it resolved. I though I had it fixed at one point with a very knowlegable CSR who said he had to escalate the issue to get it taken off my account ... he even quoted the "Premier grandfathered" type info to me. But the escalation never happened and I am back to CSRs who just want to quote #1 stuff and have no interest in helping find the #2 situation.

Is anyone else having the Premier Grandfathering issue (not the Tivo Lifetime issue)?


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

cbaker said:


> This is something different. There are two issues here:
> 1) Those that paid a "lifetime service fee".
> 2) Those that had and continued to maintain "Premier Service" in June of 2007 when DirecTV instituted the DVR fee and were "Grandfathered" in.
> 
> I am referring to #2. People under #1 seem to be able to call in if for some reason they end up getting charged the fee and get it resolved. Customer Service Reps (CSRs) typically know of this exception to the fee and can typically get it taken care of without issue. It is even spelled out the legal doc you posted.


Well the original post was in regards to the Lifetime Service. I wasn't replying to you directly. So, considering the original post in this thread, you're somewhat out of place. Thanks for drawing attention to yourself


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Well the original post was in regards to the Lifetime Service. I wasn't replying to you directly. So, considering the original post in this thread, you're somewhat out of place. Thanks for drawing attention to yourself


Wow ... didn't know that is how we acted on this board. I guess I can play that game too...

If you would have taken the time and read the thread before commenting (I guess you were just "too lazy"), you would have seen that people were talking about both types. Also you would have seen my reference specifically to "Premier Service with DVR". ... So, considering the original post*S* in this thread, you're somewhat out of line. Thanks for drawing attention to yourself .


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

And I'd like to say thanks for moving this :backtotop .. It's OK to combine the two issues here as they are related .. However, I suspect the grandfathered packages may ultimately be out of luck over time.


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> And I'd like to say thanks for moving this :backtotop .. It's OK to combine the two issues here as they are related .. However, I suspect the grandfathered packages may ultimately be out of luck over time.


Thanks Doug for keeping us on topic.

Well I am glad to report that I just hung-up with Rachel from Directv's Office of the President (or similiar) and it has been resolved. This was after I emailed the Sr. VP for Customer Service - Ellen Filipiak [email protected] earlier this morning explaining my issue.

For others who might have this problem, she agreed that indeed those who have had Premier package and a DVR prior to July 2007 and kept the Premier package should not be charged the DVR monthly service fee of $6. She indicated that indeed this is a problem in their billing system and that her office is aware of it. She went on to say that they are trying to get this fixed in their system. She implied that if a change is made to your primary receiver (fix, replace, change of service, etc) that this charge is getting put on automatically.

While she seem to believe that the CSRs know that these customers should get DVR service as part of their grandfathered Premier package, I tried to stress with her that this was not my experience in dealing with 4 different CSRs and 2 different retention department reps ... only 1 knew what I was talking about and only after he did 20+ minutes of research for me. She indicated that she would forward that info to those reps.

She did say that if this charge comes back, I should contact the CSRs and if I don't get anywhere to contact her dept again.

I hope they get this fixed so it doesn't happen for others. But if it does, as loyal D* customers, tough it out and get the service you deserve!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> However, I suspect the grandfathered packages may ultimately be out of luck over time.


 That's a shame. I've had the Premiere package since 2003 and at the point DIRECTV ever drops the grandfathered status of their loyal customers, that's when I'll be dropping to a different, less-costly package.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> That's a shame. I've had the Premiere package since 2003 and at the point DIRECTV ever drops the grandfathered status of their loyal customers, that's when I'll be dropping to a different, less-costly package.


Because the premier package is worth it just for the free DVR service, right? 

- Merg


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Because the premier package is worth it just for the free DVR service, right?
> 
> - Merg


It's worth it for a lot of reasons, but the included DVR service fee is what makes it "premiere". If it was dropped, I'd have an effective rate increase that would cost me an extra $72 per year and I would need to offset that.


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> It's worth it for a lot of reasons, but the included DVR service fee is what makes it "premiere". If it was dropped, I'd have an effective rate increase that would cost me an extra $72 per year and I would need to offset that.


Ah, come now, that's what, a half hours worth of work for you?


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I have the "PLUS DVR Package ,CHOICE XTRA™ + DVR — Locals Included " package that I signed up for back in March of 2008. I plan to add HD access. Can I expect to be paying a DVR charge even though it's included in my package?

UPDATE: I decided to call D* and they told me that they still offered the Choice Xtra + DVR. I asked them if/when I upgrade to HD and add HD access will I still keep my package. They said I would. It wasn't listed though as a package on their site. Maybe a phone in package only?! Take it at face value I guess?


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## ctaranto (Feb 7, 2008)

Drew2k said:


> It's worth it for a lot of reasons, but the included DVR service fee is what makes it "premiere". If it was dropped, I'd have an effective rate increase that would cost me an extra $72 per year and I would need to offset that.


If you *need* to offset $72 from your yearly budget, your spending way too much on entertainment already.

If it's your desire to make a point of spending $x vs $y to DTV, that's a different point all together.

/c


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

ctaranto said:


> If you *need* to offset $72 from your yearly budget, your spending way too much on entertainment already.


Sorry, but you have no basis for making that determination.



> If it's your desire to make a point of spending $x vs $y to DTV, that's a different point all together.
> 
> /c


My desire is not to spend more than I am for my current package.


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> My desire is not to spend more than I am for my current package.


And based on my past experience with D*, they tend to try and charge us for every little thing they can think of ... HD Service, DVR Service, Superfan sep. from Sunday Ticket ... what is next, are they going to charge us for Everything on VOD, MRV, Doubleplay, ...

I agree with Drew, if the Premier package doesn't have these items, then I will have to take a close look at how I am spending my $$ on TV with D*.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

cbaker said:


> And based on my past experience with D*, they tend to try and charge us for every little thing they can think of ... HD Service, DVR Service, Superfan sep. from Sunday Ticket ... what is next, are they going to charge us for Everything on VOD, MRV, Doubleplay, ...
> 
> I agree with Drew, if the Premier package doesn't have these items, then I will have to take a close look at how I am spending my $$ on TV with D*.


Because no other service provider charges extra for HD, DVR, premium channels, and extra premium receivers...
VOD will most-likely remain how it is. You already have to pay for some content on VOD but the actually service is free.
Double-play is a DVR feature and is covered in the DVR fee.
I strongly doubt they'll charge for MRV either seeing as that it's an internal network thing.
However, I don't necesarily agree with having to pay to use a hardware function (DVR Service). I do understand having to pay to view HD channels.


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Because no other service provider charges extra for HD, DVR, premium channels, and extra premium receivers...
> VOD will most-likely remain how it is. You already have to pay for some content on VOD but the actually service is free.
> Double-play is a DVR feature and is covered in the DVR fee.
> I strongly doubt they'll charge for MRV either seeing as that it's an internal network thing.
> However, I don't necesarily agree with having to pay to use a hardware function (DVR Service). I do understand having to pay to view HD channels.


Actually, I had HD service with D* for 1-2 years before they decided to charge a separate fee for it. Had DVR service for 7+ years before they decided to charge a separate fee for it.

As for MRV, I see things like "authorized for MRV" in CE versions so I do question if they will charge for it down the road.

And when I had to pay $100 more (on top of the $250-$300 for ST) to get HD versions of ST games (had to buy Superfan) they lost my ST business.

How do you justify an HD fee in 5 years when all channels are HD at the source? They are going to charge you a fee to get the versions that aren't being downgraded? IMO I think the HD fee will become more and more difficult to justify.

But my overall point is the "Premier Package" from any provider should be just that and include these common items. It use to with D*.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

cbaker said:


> How do you justify an HD fee in 5 years when all channels are HD at the source? They are going to charge you a fee to get the versions that aren't being downgraded? IMO I think the HD fee will become more and more difficult to justify.


I don't know squat about the transmission process. But I do know that HD weighs more than SD. Bandwidth. And upgrades to systems that were originally designed for SD that have been redesigned/replaced/are now running alongside of HD systems.


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