# Feburary 1, Hello Time Warner & HDTV



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Well time for me has finally came, 1 week from today I'm going back to Time Warner but for a slightly different reason then I originally had intended, HD. In a few hours I will be heading off to the Best Buy in Rochester to pick up a Sony 34" Wega Widescreen HDTV. With no interest financing until Jan '09, it's the perfect time up jump into HD and at this time I cannot begin to consider DirecTV HD.

I just got of the phone with Time Warner, grand total $137.21/month
-Digital Cable, Sports Pak, HD Tier
-HD DVR Sci Atl 8300HD
-42 Channels of Music Choice
-19 Channels of On Demand
-43 Premium Movie Channels
-4 Premiums on Demands
-14 Channels of HD
-Road Runner Premium 8MB/512KB

-No Contract
-No Up Front Costs
-30 Day Money Back Guarantee
-$100 invoice credit w/ dish and tuner
(Old Dish300 and 2700 will be given away, like hell they'll get my DTiVos)

HD Line up is as follows

1002- NBC HD
1004- CBS HD
1005- PBS HD
1007- ABC HD
1014- INHD 1
1015- INHD 2
1030- Discovery HD Theater
1033- TNT HD
1047- YES HD
1050- HD Net
1051- HD Net Movies
1052- ESPN HD
1060- HBO HD
1061- Showtime HD

All but the last 5 are included in basic digital cable at no extra charge. The HD Tier is $4.95 fo HD Net, HD Net Movie and ESPN HD. HBO HD and SHO HD are included in their respective movie packages. Would have been nice to have ESPN 2 HD, don't care about Universal HD. The Sports Pak is $1.95 for the 3 Fox Sports Diginets, Tennis Channel, NBA TV, CSTV & Fuel.

And who knows I might even get WB HD. In Rochester, WB is cable only, but for some reason it appears I'll be receiving WB16 on Digital Cable, don't understand why I wouldn't get it in HD as well. TW will probably get MSG HD as well. Everything looks great on paper, hopefully it will look just as good in reality. DBS was a great in the beginning, but I have to go were the content is and what's best on the wallet. 

Good Riddance PI channels & Good Riddance shopping channels

I cannot wait for the next week to go by


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Sounds like you've taken a similar route, moving from D* to cable. that's I've done. On our Comcast system I get the HD versions of our ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS and WGN. With the additional of the basic digital tier I get the HD versions ESPN, Discovery HDT, ESPN, InHD, InHD2 and Comcast Sportsnet Chicago. I also get the HD versions of HBO, Showtime, Starz and Cinemax. Our Comcast system is also doing digital simulcast of the analog channels so nomore if the PQ issue that come with analog channels on cable. Now I get the same overcompress digital versions that both DBS providers send out. 

I still have D*, mainly for NFL-ST, with the HD package, mainly for ESPN-2 and Universal. I'm keeping that package only until the Olympics and college basketball is over then dropping that, all I'll have left is Total Choice and NFL-ST.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Congrats on your decision, Steve! You're proudly following in the grand old man's rather large footsteps. 

I went through a similar DBS/cable review and decision process just a few months ago shortly before having a stroke, comparing both E* and D* with my local Adelphia cable offerings. One of the _minor_ factors in making the decision to go back to cable was the "simplicity" of cable in contrast with DBS. That once insignificant element of my decision now looms large in the overall scheme of things, since I can no longer climb my "dish tree" to tweak azimuth or swap out toasted switches. Cable isn't as cool as satellite, and frankly it's a tad boring, but in view of recent events and my current circumstances, "boring" can be good.

Over five years with DBS, and E* in particular was a great ride for me and frankly, at times, lots of fun. The sometimes sticky"issues" that often come with operating and maintaining a DBS "earth station', at one time consisting of three dishes feeding an HDTV and four other monitors, were, at times, challenging, but that's what eventually led me to this site for information and technical guidance.

The fortuitous 'discovery' of DBSTalk.com was to literally become a life-changing event for me, giving me an outlet for self-expression and admittedly, the opportunity for a little 'self-discovery' along the way to a seemingly excessive 10,000 posts. 

Finally, to the over 17,000 members of this absolutely enjoyabe and entertaining site, know this: I will always have a warm slot in my memory banks for DBS and, who knows, if circumstances change, I may well reconnect one or more of my (now) four dishes one day for more amazing tv from the sky.

In the meantime, Steve, I'll still be hanging out here, staying on top of the latest news from the exciting world of DBS, and keeping a watchful eye on *Bogy*, *jonstad* and the *Chief*! I hope you will continue to hang around with us.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Hey RAD, didn't you switch from Dish to DirecTV initially, if I remember right? If so sorry Nick, I'm actually following in RADs footsteps 

I'll comment more later, I'm on my way out the door on a 60 mile journey to pick up my Wega. Hopefully there's still one left, if not I'll have to get a Bravia


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Steve Mehs said:


> Hey RAD, didn't you switch from Dish to DirecTV initially, if I remember right? If so sorry Nick, I'm actually following in RADs footsteps


Actually I first had D* back in the very early days, got the first Sony A1 receiver that CC received. Dumped them for E* in 2001 since E* had Showtime-HD and D* didn't. Went back to D* in January 2003 (or was it 2004, don't remember) after being totally frustrated with the 811. I've actually have tried Comcast twice before. The first time was between E* and D* but Comcast hadn't upgraded the physical plant that they got when they purchased AT&T (which got it from TCI, which got it from Jones Intercable which got it from Cox). Hence the analog PQ really stank and channel offering limited due to being on an old system. Tried Comcast again last summer after they upgraded the system and started to offer the 6412 DVR. Things were better but analog PQ still wasn't that good plus with the DVR it had to do the MPEG2 conversion on the fly which didn't help. With the 3412 DVR and all digital the PQ for SD is equal if not a tad better then D* and the HD is very good. The 3412 sure isn't the HR10-250 but it's better then the R15.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

What a great deal Steve! We also have Time Warner here and they have tempted me more than a few times. Congrats on your Sony. It's always nice to have new toys.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

Steve Mehs said:


> In a few hours I will be heading off to the Best Buy in Rochester to pick up a Sony 34" Wega Widescreen HDTV.


I hope you get this one. You'll really enjoy it, IMO.  (I have the 32" 4:3 version. )

Just make sure you have some strong help to move it around! (Right, KL? )


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Amen. You don't _really_ know how heavy 200 pounds of TV is until you get it up a flight of stairs. We had the thing strapped to an appliance dolly with me pulling and my roommate pushing. By the time we were within 8 or so steps from the top I could barely feel my arms or legs and had visions of my roommate, in a cartoon come to life moment, being turned into a puddle at the bottom of the stairs.!danger: 

Next time I get something that large I'll pay the delivery charge! And if I sell the place, the TV may just stay.:grin:


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

:lol: Yeah, stupid me, had to have the thing THAT night! We used an appliance dolly also, but DUH! couldn't get the thing through the front door without taking it off. I was personally terrified to tip it on its side.  And ... uh..  it DOES have a small chip (which I superglued back!) right in front at the bottom. (Yeah, don't ask. :nono: ) We also had a piano dolly that came in handy maneuvering it through the living room. When someone comes over and admires my TV, I'm always quick to WOW them with the HD channels! :lol: (They just don't know it's to distract them from the 'accident'. )

I just hope Steve doesn't come back to his thread 'sadder and wiser', and wishing we'd given him all this advice yesterday morning!

Well, Steve? Which one did ya get??? :grin:


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Yesterday was interesting. I was too excited to sleep so I didn't. At work I regretted that all night, and even more when I got home.

When I got to Best Buy I was hoping they still had the one Wega KV34HS420s in stock, but as my luck would have it they were sold out. As were the 3 Circuit City's and Best Buy here in Buffalo. Then I asked about the Bravia KLVS32A10 also sold out. At this point I came to the conclusion that I wasn't going to go home empty handed after a 60 mile drive, so I bought the only affordable Sony they had in stock, part of Sony's top shelf XBR line the, WEGA KD34XBR960.

The thing that sucked was my Best Buy Credit card limit was only $1300, I got it upped to $1500. So $1500 went on the Best Buy Card, $200 when on my AMEX and I paid off the rest, which was $106, after my $30 gift card. I was really pissed off, for the first time ever I'm broke...until I cash my paycheck tomorrow , but I'll have to buy 2 sets of component video cables and a surge protector. I wasn't expecting to spend this much, I'm always one to go for the best of a product line, but I could careless about the Memory Stick slot, the built in ATSC tuner and the enhanced speakers, I'd rather have no speakers to eliminate unnecessary weight.

It took me over 2 hours to get the TV into my house. My mom suggested our front door, but there was quite a bit of snow, so I backed into the garage and tried the steps from the garage into the kitchen, after 45 minutes of careful movements and struggling I got it up the steps (only 4, but 4 is a lot by yourself) when I found out there was no way it would make it through the door. I tried, but at one point it was half on it's side and stuck in the doorway. So it went back down the steps and into the back of my truck. I then decided to try the front door which is bigger. If there was no snow it would have be a hell of a lot easier. In order to get enough momentum to back up on my front lawn, I had to floor it, then slam on the breaks right away so I would smash into the steps. Got a long piece of plywood and used it as a bridge, one end on the back bumper one on the top step and it worked.

Currently the TV is sitting in the middle of the living room, still in the protective wrapping. My current TV is on top of my entertainment center as it doesn't fit were the TV slot is. I would like to put it in the same place, but lifting the thing 4 feet in the air is nearly impossible. Plus my mom is worried it might collapse. She wants me to get a TV stand, but I like my entertainment center, so I don't know what I'm going to do yet for sure.

I also got this Sony DVD Player the other day at Circuit City. What goods a new TV without a new progressive scan DVD player. I wanted the one with SACD capability, but it's not carried anywere, so I had to settle for that one. When I replace my 5 disc CD changer it will be with Sony's SACD one.

My next purchase will be a new surround sound system, I'm going to get the Sony 898. It can pass though and switch HD component, I'm curious to the quality though. Then I'll have o get speakers.

Currently I have all low end Philips stuff, and I'd like to bump it up a tad so when people see it they go WOW instead of it's just a regular plain ole 32" tube TV with a (now) sub WalMart quality surround sound system. While I won't have a David Bott type set up, hopefully I'm taking steps in the right direction to enter the midend home theater market. I would have loved to go bigger then 34", but due to the size of my bedroom, I think it's perfect.

Hopefully this weekend I can get everything situated before the Time Warner guy comes Wednesday.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Nick, I also like the simplicity of cable. I like playing with wiring as much as the next geek, but that's pretty much what DBS is turning into. Like the promo flyers say, one cable, three services, TV internet and phone. While I won't be getting Digital Phone, since it's not available in my area yet. My one complaint about Time Warner is, but I can't blame them for this, they focus intensely on the Rochester area, after all that's where their core subscriber base is, but out here in what is known to them as Area 6, the three towns in Erie county served by TW, we're always last for things.

I find it strange your Adelphia franchise has their head together as well as they do, when the rest of this area has Adelphia and Adelphia Buffalo/N. Falls doesn't hold a candle to TW Rochester. After all Adelphia had a major stake in Buffalo. They owned Empire, had their own radio station, owned the Sabres and had big plans to revitilize the waterfront. 

With cable there's no multiple LNBs, some DBS some KU, no switches or switch and other hardware compatible issues, no connecting a million things together to get SD and HD on more then one TV. No equipment risk. Just what I don't want to do, plop $2K on a new TV then another $600 on a HD DVR to take advantage of what I just bought, only to have it be obsolete if/when ever MPEG 4 becomes standard. When a higher end cable box comes out I just have to call up TW and within 24 hours they'll be here, no charge.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

Going with all Sony, Steve? Careful there! People have been laughed at mercilessly for such things.  (Me.  ) I only have Sony in my cabinet, right down to the PS2. Except my 811, of course! 

Do NOT even CONSIDER the idea of trying to lift that TV 4 feet off the ground by yourself! Plus, if YOU wouldn't consider sitting on top of your entertainment center for a long period of time for fear it wouldn't hold, don't put the TV up there.

I just broke down and got a new cabinet for mine when I got it. For myself, I couldn't have a TV and then shelves on the side (like with an 'entertainment center') in the space I have, so I just opted for a cabinet. Now, I'm VERY picky about furniture that goes into my living room, NO new particle board for me :nono2:, or any of that modern/glass stuff. I even looked at used furniture stores for something that would 'work', like maybe a solid old coffee table, but no luck. I finally found a good TV cabinet at Oak Express. I didn't expect to find anything good there, so I was pleasantly surprised. It was more than I wanted to spend, but it was already set up to house all the components and hide the wiring, another requirement!  A glass door on the front to easily operate the components, and some storage also for PS2 games. Best of all, it is only about 5" wider than the TV itself, so that part worked out really well also. I'm very pleased! :grin:

I know how much you guys hate to go SHOPPING but keep looking and you'll find something good that will be just right!


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm with Laverne, the WEGA CRT is a good set for the money. It is very big though as mentioned. Our's is soooooooo heavy (we have the 36", 4:3). We rearranged our living room almost 2 weeks ago and the impressions on the carpet from the wheels on our TV stand still show.

I'm sure you will be happy with the TV Steve. Let us know about the PQ from the cable.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Well after careful consideration and reconsideration, the TV will be back at Best Buy in about 12 hours. The thing is just too damn heavy and I don't trust it on top of my entertainment center. I spent most of today looking at new entertainment centers and I only cared for one. It was $400, and I didn't like it as much as my current one. My current entertainment center is nothing special, I just like it a lot. Since Best Buy is out of stock on this, I'll be taking a trip to Circuit City and picking up a 42" Grand Wega RPTV LCD KDFE42A10. I saw one in a local A/V shop and fell in love at first site. And at only 61 lbs it's perfect, plus it's current technology. The Wega and Wega XBR CRTs appear to have been discontinued. This TV appears to have all the bells and whistles of the XBR, except for the Memory Stick, which I don't care about, but what is cool is that the 42" supports both 1080i and 720p.

I got rejected for a Circuit City credit card, but my mom will let me use her's. It's 24 months no interest opposed to 36, but her limit is up there so the whole purchase will go on the CC card. I didn't purchase the extended warranty plan with the Wega XBR, but I will with the Grand Wega. I just don't trust LCDs enough yet.

See Laverne, it's not just women who can't make up their minds


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## Jeff McClellan (Apr 22, 2002)

Steve, I started off with a KDF-34XS955 from Sony. Heavy as hell. HD was great, but after about 2 weeks, the screen just wasbt big enough. Then went to the KDF 42WE-655 LCD RP and loved it. People talked about SDE but I didnt see it, actually ended up with the 50 inch, but the 42 is a great set. One thing, get the 4 year service plan, it covers replacement of the bulb and any other issues.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

Steve Mehs said:


> See Laverne, it's not just women who can't make up their minds


Well, at least you stuck with the Sony! Glad to see that! 

(BTW, mine didn't have a memory stick, which I didn't care about anyway. Just fluff, IMO.)

One thing, in my case the 32" is the biggest TV I've ever owned. 5" bigger than the last one I got, which was 8 years ago!  (And our LR isn't all that big.) Since I don't actually GET a new TV that often, that's why I had decided to go ahead and make the switch to HD, which I'm still just thrilled with! :grin:


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Well I did it. A local electronics shop had the 42" Grand Wega for $1698, but they were out of stock but were expecting more in tomorrow. Went across the street to Circuit City where they had plenty in stock and got them to meet and match the price by 110%. All together with tax and extended warranty it came to $2077. It look very nice where it is, my front speakers just barley make it on to the entertainment center next to the TV, but they do. 

Very lightweight, I picked it up and set it up top by myself, and pretty much one handed. (The protective wrapping got all jumbled up).


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Steve Mehs said:


> ...Good Riddance PI channels & Good Riddance shopping channels...


Really? No shopping channels on TW cable?


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I meant no dozen infomercial channels. There are 5 shopping channels on TW. QVC and ShopNBC which are analog only and in digital HSN, AS and JTV.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

Sorry to see you go to cable but I understand why. 

I just set up a 42" Sony LCD Wega for my father in law on Comcast basic cable. At first I tried to set him up with OTA HD, a real challenge here in Denver. Then I discovered all the local digital channels are already on Comcast basic (not digital) cable. He did not need a converter box or cablecard, he just has to get used to some funky channel numbers and no interactive guide.

Not a big deal for him as he just wanted the locals in HD. As time goes by he may want to upgrade to get ESPN and other in HD.

I am watching the Comcast situation here also. I already have Qwest internet bundled with telephone. As Qwest and Comcast continue to bundle their products it begins to look like a better deal. Qwest bundles DirectTV now but for new subscribers only.

Depending on what kind of upgrade path DirecTV offers for HR10-250 owners later this year. I can see myself trying to work a deal with Comcast.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Well I've made the decision, HDTVs arn't for me. The picture quality this thing outputs on DirecTV and DVDs is unacceptable IMO. I know larger sets will show more flaws, but my mom has a 48" Sony and my Uncle has a 53" and the picture quality is no where as near as bad as this thing shows. When TW comes Wednesday if I'm not 110% satisfied the cable it's staying and the HDTV is going back. 

Everything looks so grainy up close, it's alright from farther away but up close the other TVs look great and mine sucks. I've made a bunch of tweaks, but it's still terrible. When my old Philips DVD player is connected via component to the 48" SD Sony DVDs are a hell of a lot sharper and crisper then with the HDTV and progressive scan DVD player. 

I cannot put into words how dissatisfied and disappointed I am with this whole experience.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

nice new hd big tv to go in your bedroom at moms house should have put a deposit on a apartment


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Why? So I can have neighbors *****ing my Dolby Digital 5.1 is disturbing their precious sleep at 3 in the morning? Like hell I'll ever live in apartment, unless it's the basement where I don't have to deal with other people


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Steve, you are _such_ a social animal! :lol:


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Like I said before, the least amount of people I have to deal with on a daily basis the happier I am.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Laverne said:


> I hope you get this one. You'll really enjoy it, IMO.  (I have the 32" 4:3 version. )
> 
> Just make sure you have some strong help to move it around! (Right, KL? )


C'mon, Laverne -- you mean you can't lift a 175 pound TV on a 100 pound stand? 
I've thoroughly enjoyed my 32" Sony behemoth, which is now located in my den, replete with 6.1 sound. In the family room, we have a 55" Sony RP LCD TV, likewise with 6.1 sound. Life is good!

Aside to Steve: Welcome to TW cable. I dropped Dish when TW came along with their offer last year, and had an HD DVR, the HD pack, Road Runner and their digital phone service. When I moved down to NC, my son and daughter in-law already had TW digital cable and Road Runner. I upped the cable service to HD, adding two Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR's to the one digital cable box they already had. Thoroughly enjoyable. Dish and DirecTV have a tough time competing with cable where they don't offer the networks in HD. That's why I left.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Steve -- sounds like you've discovered the Screen Door effect that is common on LCD TV's. It's most noticable when you're sitting close to the set, and particularly so when you're watching an analog channel. As far as DVD watching is concerned, I'm surprised you've noticed a problem with the Sony DVD progressive scan player. The PQ should be better than with your Philips.
SDE is not a problem with CRT receivers, or with DLP or plasma sets. Win a few, lose a few -- plasmas are costly and some DLP's have color breakup when the subject matter has a lot of fast action. The new generation of LCOS RP LCD TV's don't exhibit the SDE as much, nor for that matter does the A20 series of "3LCD" receivers from Sony. When you see HD on your set particularly from INHD and Discovery HD theater, you'll experience the "WOW!" effect.


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## thecodeman (Jan 31, 2006)

Congrats on your new purchase! I just recently bought the sony wega kd34xbr960 tv from circuit city. Got the floor model with 5 year protection plan for the same price as a brand new one (approximately $1500. Best Buy here wanted $1900 for it and didnt have any in stock). If anything ever happens to it in 5 years, I get another one free. Hopefully by then, canon's new SED sets will come out, and if I feel the need to loose the 200lb weight (not likely yet) I will switch to it.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Today was great day!

The Time Warner guy got here at 10:30 and left at about 11:30. I currently am very pleased with cable. Between all the Dish and DirecTV guys I've had out here, none of them were as thorough as this guy. He checked and rechecked everything and gave me a 15 minute crash course on my new receiver. 

My biggest disappointment was when the installer said, 'by the end of the month we should be simulcasting all analog channels in digital'. I responded with 'arn't most already'. It appears I made a misconception, all of the analog channels duplicated in the 100+ range are just analog mirrors for better channel organization. The installer said he was part of an analog -> digital test in Rochester a few weeks ago and there were some problems but they should be fixed by the end of the month and by early-mid march every analog channels will really be simulcast in digital. 

What I was witnessing on my TV was not just the SDE, but horrific compression artifacts. To my surprise, the digital channels on TW, look MUCH MUCH better then DirecTV on this TV. The analog channels range from not bad to eeh, nothing really awful though. Very little compression artifacts for the most part, except for some of the oddball Cinemaxs and Showtimes. Every digital channel, not just the premiums are in Dolby Digital, its nice, but it's a pain when going from analog channels to digital due to volume level differences. 

The SA Explorer 8300HD is a nice DVR, I wouldn't call it as intuitive as the TiVo, but I think it could grow on me. While watching CSI:NY (in full HD) the only thing I missed was the 30 sec skip, but what the hell, I'm not complaining the thing was free and has 4 times the storage of my TiVo. 

HD looks very sharp, locals, INHDs, HDNets they all look amazing.

That Sony Wega TV ain't going anywhere, neither is Time Warner. 

Here's a question for everyone out there, both my DVD player and cable box have HDMI outs, my TV has one HDMI in, which one would be best to connect via HDMI?

BTW - Sleuth TV is great!

Here's the channel differences, not including PIs on D* or On Demands on TW

Channels on DirecTV not Time Warner
ESPN U, TV G, Gol TV, NFL Network, Boomerang, Fox Reality, Logo, TV One, PBS Kids Sprout, Nick West, HBO Family West, ESPN 2 HD, Universal HD

Channels on Time Warner not DirecTV
CNN International, CSPAN 3, Tennis Channel, MoviePlex, Sleuth TV, Style, Ovation, Nick GAS, MTV Hits, BET On Jazz, HBO Zone, Actionmax, Thrillermax, Outermax, 5Starmax, Wmax, @Max, Showtime Beyond, Showtime Next, Showtime Family Zone, Showtime Women, TMC Xtra, Starz Kids and Family, Starz Cinema, INHD1, INHD2, TNT HD, YES HD, Locals in HD, full Music Choice Lineup


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

i would love to get a big screen i love watching the sixers lts so fun  

i still like directv but comcast has the sports 

now if they could just drop music choice


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Steve: Glad all has worked out well for you with the TV and Time Warner!
Regarding the 8300HD -- definitely quirky, lacking some of the good features of TiVo, like being able to view a show being recorded from the start without having to rewind it (king sized pain).
Helpful hint: go to the Scientific Atlanta web site and download the 8300HD user's guides for the remote and DVR. You'll find them useful. 
Another thought: Record the HDNet test pattern (6:00 a.m. Tuesday) and set the save option to "Save until I delete". That way, you'll have a pretty good tool for setup of your TV whenever you want it.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I just signed up for the Explorer eClub and set the DVR to record the test pattern, thanks for the heads up.

Just for fun I hooked up my Philips 32" CRT SDTV up to the cable box via Svideo. The picture quality on the digital channels blows DirecTV away on this TV.

All day I've been exploring the On Demands. Some very good stuff there!


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

on demand is cool


now if cbs abc nbc wb upn and fox could all be on demand that would be great


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