# new construction house- should I pay for Satellite Prewire?



## TonyTouch (Aug 20, 2008)

We are building a new house, and one of the upgrade options the builder offers is called HDTV Satellite Prewire. It is described as: "5 cables (4 HD RG-6 and 1 off-air) from attic to structured wiring enclosure". The price is $340. 

Should I get this for DirecTV? I believe I don't need this due to the SWM, but I want to confirm. As of now, we are planning on having 3 HD boxes, with a potential for up to 3 more in future years. They will be on both floors of the home.

One item to note is that the existing houses in the community seem to have their dishes installed in the ground, and not on the roof. If this is the case, is having the run from the attic a waste? Are there any other wiring requests we should make with the builder?

Thanks for any input.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

4+1 is old technology
I would have 2 lines both RG6
One for SAT and one for OTA. RG6 is nominally more than RG59 and better for OTA too.

Rooftop installs of the dish aren't very common. Why live with leak potential?
Dish should be installed on a side of the house with no instructions to the SAT. But I don't know where you are so can't give you a direction of which side.

I would also have CAT6 run to every room from where-ever you expect the modem to be. That is better than wireless only in the home.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

I would get it done. Also add a few more structured closet to meter pan outside. 


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

That is too many cables for the current installs ... and I am always wary of people who call cables "HD". DIRECTV will not go on a roof for an install ... the edge of the roof is possible. Only a DIRECTV installer who visits your site can do more than guess where the dish will work.

The final decision comes down to the cost of doing the work now vs doing the work after. But unless I was sure that DIRECTV will use the location where the cables are running, I would not put them there.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

$340 for running a few cables in new construction is highway robbery! If all the other houses have their dishes on the ground, are you sure there isn't some covenant (or unofficial agreement amongst neighbors) against putting dishes on the roof? Are you far enough away from the TV towers in your area that you'd need a rooftop antenna, versus an indoor one?

When a builder comes to you with "here is a massively marked up option, do you want to add it?" he's trying to pad his profit.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

yea, get sat dish location first ! One RG-6 cable will to to that place
two RG-6 and one CAT5 to each room from a network closet


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Shouldn't the dish be installed as close to the home ground as possible? Assuming LOS of course. 

No location of the TS. Will you have any issues with snow accumulation (so dish on the ground easier to clear).

OTARD allows you to put the dish where you need to put it to get a signal (I'm assuming since you're building, you have exclusive use of your house and yard). HOAs/covenants can't mandate the ground unless you can receive the signal and it isn't more expensive than other installs. 

I'm not sure $340 is too expensive for what they are calling for. The wiring boxes costs what -- $50? So for the box, roof plate and wiring, $100?? Labor to install. Plus it is something they can do now and just think of the work you'd have to do after you own the house. And how much does that add to your monthly house payment?

But go back though and tell them you only need two RG6s and get a lower price.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> $340 for running a few cables in new construction is highway robbery! If all the other houses have their dishes on the ground, are you sure there isn't some covenant (or unofficial agreement amongst neighbors) against putting dishes on the roof? Are you far enough away from the TV towers in your area that you'd need a rooftop antenna, versus an indoor one?
> 
> When a builder comes to you with "here is a massively marked up option, do you want to add it?" he's trying to pad his profit.


When I built my house in 2002, it was obviously all open walls, no insulation, etc. and the electrician charged $150 per custom wire drop. There was a structured wiring package, but it was like $2000. Nowadays, houses in my area generally come with structured wiring because Irvine is considered a high-tech city.

You might think its highway robbery to charge $150 for a RG6 drop, but if you look at the big picture, its unfortunately not. With closed walls, an electrician will probably charge you $150 a drop too, except he's going to turn your drywall into swiss cheese if you want the run to go against the studs. Even if you go with the studs, there's still fireblocking in every cavity and expanding foam insulation in exterior walls. So, on top of the $150 you paid for the drop, it'll probably cost you another $300 to $500 to repair all the damage. A drywall guy typically charges $50 per hole. Walls in my area are textured. Then you have to paint.

BTW, just in case you are thinking about it , you aren't allowed to run the wires yourself when the walls are wide open. The builder isn't going to let you do that. If you "sneak in at night" to sneak a few runs in and you get caught, you can be charged with several crimes and arrested. When you are building a home, the builder owns it until it closes.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Depends on who your builder is, you can't make a blanket statement that they won't let you do it. I know people who have run all their wiring during construction, with their builder's blessing. If that's something that matters to you, you need to talk to your builder about it first, and hire someone else if they won't allow it. There are many ways you can get screwed during construction of a new house, that is one of a hundred questions you need to ask before signing a contract. The people who don't ask questions are the ones unscrupulous builders love, because they know as people don't like what is happening they'll want to make changes and upgrades, and that's where they'll really get you!

The package the TS quoted was $340 to run five coax from the _attic_ to a structure wiring box. I wouldn't make any assumptions about a roof plate or whatever, as unless they explicitly say it they could have five coaxes tied off against a joist in the attic and call it a day. For $50 of materials, and a half hour of labor, $340 is totally a profit center for the builder, I'm sorry. I would have hoped any house being built in 2017 would already include a structured wiring box with all coax and cat5 in the the house run to it, so the cost of that really shouldn't be included in the $340 anyway!


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Depends on who your builder is, you can't make a blanket statement that they won't let you do it. I know people who have run all their wiring during construction, with their builder's blessing. If that's something that matters to you, you need to talk to your builder about it first, and hire someone else if they won't allow it. There are many ways you can get screwed during construction of a new house, that is one of a hundred questions you need to ask before signing a contract. The people who don't ask questions are the ones unscrupulous builders love, because they know as people don't like what is happening they'll want to make changes and upgrades, and that's where they'll really get you!
> 
> The package the TS quoted was $340 to run five coax from the _attic_ to a structure wiring box. I wouldn't make any assumptions about a roof plate or whatever, as unless they explicitly say it they could have five coaxes tied off against a joist in the attic and call it a day. For $50 of materials, and a half hour of labor, $340 is totally a profit center for the builder, I'm sorry. I would have hoped any house being built in 2017 would already include a structured wiring box with all coax and cat5 in the the house run to it, so the cost of that really shouldn't be included in the $340 anyway!


Must be different in Iowa lol... in California, you can't pick your builder (unless you buy an empty lot). The builders buy what little empty land there is left and develop it and build and sell all the houses on that land. If you want to buy an empty lot, its usually in an undesirable area. The builders get all the desirable land. Of course, you can buy a house, tear it down and then build a new house there and you'll be able to pick your builder, but that seems excessive just to run a few RG6 drops .


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I witnessed a builder on a Monday tearing out coax and speaker wiring that the future home owner installed over a weekend. It was specifically in their contract that the homeowner couldn't go to the house w/o the builder present. The 'no trespassing' signs applies to the homeowner because like Sledgehammer said, it belongs to the builder until it is sold. You've got liability issues if the future owner injures them self while working plus any issues with faulty installation/not code compliant (if applicable).

And yes, the builder is making money off everything that goes into the house. As is the installer.


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## TonyTouch (Aug 20, 2008)

In terms of standard wiring, the builder runs Coax from the bedrooms and the family room to a Structured Wiring Box. They also run CAT5 from the Master Bedroom and family room. Any other connections are extra cost, from what I can tell. I have a meeting with their low voltage guy this Wednesday so I can ask more questions. I will likely add CAT5 connections in the kids' bedrooms also.

In terms of the $340 Satellite package upgrade, I figured I wouldn't need that, as I thought directv only requires a single coax run to the SWM in the structured wiring box. So assuming the dish is in the ground (like the other houses have), wouldn't the installer just run one coax from the dish to the structured wiring box? Am I understanding that correctly?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

trh said:


> And yes, the builder is making money off everything that goes into the house. As is the installer.


Yup. I got pretty pissed with the builder since this was my first house and the money was tight. They really rip you off on upgrades. Typically a builder charges 2x or 3x what it would cost you to get it done after the house is built. So yeah, you are gonna pay $15000 - $25000 to get a $5000ish floor install if you go through the builder. It's marked up THAT much. I wanted to get some cool tile I saw in the model, and the builder quoted me $25000 lol... I installed it down the road and it only cost $5000 for the tile plus install. No joke.

Even something the builder has nothing to do with like appliances are marked up like crazy. After I got mad at the builder for the markups, they offered me a high end fridge to try to appease me. They offered it to me for $2500. I looked up the model number and it was $1500 at Home Depot.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

TonyTouch said:


> In terms of standard wiring, the builder runs Coax from the bedrooms and the family room to a Structured Wiring Box. They also run CAT5 from the Master Bedroom and family room. Any other connections are extra cost, from what I can tell. I have a meeting with their low voltage guy this Wednesday so I can ask more questions. I will likely add CAT5 connections in the kids' bedrooms also.
> 
> In terms of the $340 Satellite package upgrade, I figured I wouldn't need that, as I thought directv only requires a single coax run to the SWM in the structured wiring box. So assuming the dish is in the ground (like the other houses have), wouldn't the installer just run one coax from the dish to the structured wiring box? Am I understanding that correctly?


There are some nuances with the install where you would need more then one RG6 drop in a room, but typically you just need one per room. From the dish to the multiswitch is a single RG6 nowadays... it used to be 4.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Even something the builder has nothing to do with like appliances are marked up like crazy. After I got mad at the builder for the markups, they offered me a high end fridge to try to appease me. They offered it to me for $2500. I looked up the model number and it was $1500 at Home Depot.


That's one of the reasons that I love my current contractor. I finished remodeling my kitchen and main floor bathroom last fall and now I'm remodeling (actually rebuilding) a bathroom and 2 bedrooms upstairs. My contractor doesn't get a cut of any of the fixtures, appliances, etc... He told me the first day that we spoke that it costs him exactly the same amount of money to install an expensive oven as it costs to install an inexpensive oven and he doesn't think that he should make any more or less based on which one I choose to buy. The only exception to that was when I was looking at marble tile for the bathroom. He told me that it was more labor intensive. So, it would cost more to install if I wanted to go that way. He ended up finding me another tile that looked nearly the same and cost less for both labor and materials.

Our contract included allowances for various items that were needed for the project. If I go over, I pay the difference. If I stay under, I keep the difference. With last fall's project, I paid for the appliances directly and was able to get most of the bathroom fixtures online for a better price than he was able to get them locally. So, he just had me order them and they didn't get included in the allowance total. A contractor who was taking a cut wouldn't have allowed that to happen.


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## Bell System (Sep 7, 2007)

I read this as 4 coax runs throughout the home. One coax run from attic to wiring closet which is smart (for an antenna) I recommended my cousin do this when he built his house. In the end he got a genie and 5 wireless clients which was perfect because he was able to use the house coax for antenna as he put the genie in the basement.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Bill Broderick said:


> That's one of the reasons that I love my current contractor. I finished remodeling my kitchen and main floor bathroom last fall and now I'm remodeling (actually rebuilding) a bathroom and 2 bedrooms upstairs. My contractor doesn't get a cut of any of the fixtures, appliances, etc... He told me the first day that we spoke that it costs him exactly the same amount of money to install an expensive oven as it costs to install an inexpensive oven and he doesn't think that he should make any more or less based on which one I choose to buy. The only exception to that was when I was looking at marble tile for the bathroom. He told me that it was more labor intensive. So, it would cost more to install if I wanted to go that way. He ended up finding me another tile that looked nearly the same and cost less for both labor and materials.
> 
> Our contract included allowances for various items that were needed for the project. If I go over, I pay the difference. If I stay under, I keep the difference. With last fall's project, I paid for the appliances directly and was able to get most of the bathroom fixtures online for a better price than he was able to get them locally. So, he just had me order them and they didn't get included in the allowance total. A contractor who was taking a cut wouldn't have allowed that to happen.


Ya... marble is more labor intensive to install as is wood flooring and travertine and some other materials. Ceramic tile is pretty much all the same unless you want a pattern or go up a wall.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

trh said:


> Shouldn't the dish be installed as close to the home ground as possible? Assuming LOS of course.
> 
> No location of the TS. Will you have any issues with snow accumulation (so dish on the ground easier to clear).


While putting a dish close to the ground has some advantages like snow clearing, when they are close to the ground, balls and bats seem to come into contact with the dish. The LNB is a nice target.

I think having it 6 to 10 feet off the ground is a nice compromise. But to each their own.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

NR4P said:


> While putting a dish close to the ground has some advantages like snow clearing, when they are close to the ground, balls and bats seem to come into contact with the dish. The LNB is a nice target.
> 
> I think having it 6 to 10 feet off the ground is a nice compromise. But to each their own.


The first 'ground' I was referring to was the house ground for lightning/static electricity.

For me, a pole mount would mean on the south side of my house. But my house electrical comes in at the NW corner of the house (and where the house ground is located). So if I wanted to put it on a pole, I'd need to move it into the front yard to see around the house. But on the lip of the roof on the NW corner (above the house ground (buried utilities)), the dish has clear LOS.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> There are some nuances with the install where you would need more then one RG6 drop in a room, but typically you just need one per room. From the dish to the multiswitch is a single RG6 nowadays... it used to be 4.


While most only need that I'd have them run the four. There's always a possibility they'd need it for some reason. Heck if he wants foreign language and 4k possibly at the same time I'd tell the builder to make it seven coax drops because right now it may require that.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

When I designed and had my house built 9 years ago I made it a condition of signing the contract with my builder that I would run all my own electronic and speaker wire. I ran structured wire (2 coax and 2 cat5e inside a single sheath) through the house (homerun lines only) from every room (mostly multiple locations in each room) to a central wiring/network closet. Also ran 4 coax from the closet to the spot where the dish had to be. I also ran a wire chase, basically an empty capped pipe, from the attic 4 stories down to the basement...just in case. Also ran speaker wire from 4 outside location (porches, patios ) and the garage to the audio/video equipment room. Best investment I ever made. You really need to spend enough time in the planning stage and think it all thru. Good wire labeling is critical... ; - )


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> When I designed and had my house built 9 years ago I made it a condition of signing the contract with my builder that I would run all my own electronic and speaker wire. I ran structured wire (2 coax and 2 cat5e inside a single sheath) through the house (homerun lines only) from every room (mostly multiple locations in each room) to a central wiring/network closet. Also ran 4 coax from the closet to the spot where the dish had to be. I also ran a wire chase, basically an empty capped pipe, from the attic 4 stories down to the basement...just in case. Also ran speaker wire from 4 outside location (porches, patios ) and the garage to the audio/video equipment room. Best investment I ever made. You really need to spend enough time in the planning stage and think it all thru. Good wire labeling is critical... ; - )


If you know what you're doing, then it probably was a very very good investment of time and labor. But you also have to make sure you follow all the applicable building codes and potentially any state requirements.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

A lot of builders will not let you do that anymore due to liability


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> While most only need that I'd have them run the four. There's always a possibility they'd need it for some reason. Heck if he wants foreign language and 4k possibly at the same time I'd tell the builder to make it seven coax drops because right now it may require that.


Planning for now is probably a mistake. Build a pathway that can be filled with whatever needs to be put there in the future.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

trh said:


> If you know what you're doing, then it probably was a very very good investment of time and labor. But you also have to make sure you follow all the applicable building codes and potentially any state requirements.


It is not for amateurs....


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

compnurd said:


> A lot of builders will not let you do that anymore due to liability


There are simple and relatively inexpensive ways to provide the right liability coverage to protect both you and your builder. Honestly, in most cases when a builder refuses to let you do something like that it is less about liability and more about money. But that's a whole other conversation.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

James Long said:


> Planning for now is probably a mistake. Build a pathway that can be filled with whatever needs to be put there in the future.


Hence my suggestion of putting in more. The best is big conduit.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> There are simple and relatively inexpensive ways to provide the right liability coverage to protect both you and your builder. Honestly, in most cases when a builder refuses to let you do something like that it is less about liability and more about money. But that's a whole other conversation.


Or they just don't want you to mess with THIER house. Yes, they overcharge for everything, 2x or 3x like I said in an earlier post, sometimes more then that. However, at the end of the day, its still their house... dunno if you've ever bought from a builder before, but when I did, I only had to put down a $5,000 deposit and we're not talking about a $100k house here... this is Southern California at the beginning of the housing boom when you had 30+ people lining up to buy 4 houses on a Saturday morning at 7am. Point is... you don't even have to qualify to buy a tract home from the builder, you just need $5,000. The qualifying part comes later... much, much later... you drop a lot of non-refundable money before you qualify (options, custom features, changes, etc). if you were a builder and you let some random guy rewire the house and he fell out of escrow and then you sold that house to somebody and it burned down, you'd likely get sued pretty bad, don't you think? 

If you bought land and hired a custom builder, you can do whatever you want since its your land and your house... you also pay for that privilege... a custom built house has a very high price per sq ft compared to tract homes.

*shrug* end of the day, it'll cost you more to do wiring changes after the walls are closed, so its best to pay the builder. Stuff like kitchen cabinets, flooring, etc. definitely do afterwards.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

SledgeHammer said:


> If you bought land and hired a custom builder, you can do whatever you want since its your land and your house... you also pay for that privilege... a custom built house has a very high price per sq ft compared to tract homes.


Exactly what I did... and designed the house myself. Third time. First two I used stock plans but never EXACTLY what the wife and I wanted. Third time was definitely the charm for us...don't think I'll ever do it again though... ; - )


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## pmayo2002 (Mar 30, 2002)

Agree with comment --your house and you can do with it what you want. I did same. Each had 2 RG6 plus 2 CAT 5's run when built in 2005 -- all homeruned to an OnQ media box. Also 6 Coax from outside to distribution box. Those were the days the DTV used 4 from the side-car LNB. 

The bedrooms had 2 outlets so did not limit the placement of the bed and TV. Builder charged $1200 extra -- I provided the OnQ distribution panel, cover plates and the connection labor (me). They provided the cable and labor to run this.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SledgeHammer said:


> Or they just don't want you to mess with THIER house.


Accurate for the narrow contract that you are describing ... not accurate for all construction contracts.

The builders in my area tend to work as "partners" with the people they are building for. If they are building for a developer one can have some of the problems you describe (limited custom work to avoid reducing the value if the sale falls through). But if they are building for the homeowner there are less problems.


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## dallasfan30m (Dec 28, 2016)

that's like asking should I pay to have electrical outlets installed that I may need, of course you get it pre-wired 

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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dallasfan30m said:


> that's like asking should I pay to have electrical outlets installed that I may need, of course you get it pre-wired


"Need" is the key word. I do not believe the need for this specific set of cables has been demonstrated.

That being said, I normally error on the side of "just in case" when putting in cabling (voice, data, TV). One should at least put in a pathway (conduit) between key locations to make adding cable easier later.


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