# ASK DBSTALK: Two 921s, two flash versions



## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

My setup includes two 921s. Both are currently functioning in a very stable
state, though I'll be putting them through various tests over the coming
weeks.

One question however: My first 921 was one of the first released, flash
v051. This one has the DishWire ports, etc. The second is a recently 
released 921, flash v052. Does anyone have any recommendations or 
observations about the differences between these two flash revisions?

On one hand, it's good to have the ability to compare the two flashes.
On the other hand, prior to running my tests I should know about any known
flash-specific issues so that I don't post redundantly.

Thanks,

-Jay


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jay - you'll also notice that your older 921 will have bootstrap version 120B, while the newer one will have version 140B. 

When posting a bug report, just make absolutely sure that you include which versions on which you are reporting the bug. That is very important to the programmers. Some bugs will affect only one of the versions, others will affect both.


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

Mark - Is there any summary of any kind that can help me better understand
what the technical differences between the flash/bootstrap versions are?
This would go a long way towards me better communicating anything I find,
as well as help direct some of my testing.

Also, is there any communication from Dish on the older flash and bootstraps
vis-a-vis EOL'ing those devices?



Mark Lamutt said:


> Jay - you'll also notice that your older 921 will have bootstrap version 120B, while the newer one will have version 140B.
> 
> When posting a bug report, just make absolutely sure that you include which versions on which you are reporting the bug. That is very important to the programmers. Some bugs will affect only one of the versions, others will affect both.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No, there isn't a summary of differences that I know of. In this case, I've told you everything that I know about it, from the Eldon guys.

I don't know what you mean by "Eol-ing" these devices. That's not a term I'm familiar with.


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

Sorry. EOL means End of Life, in product management terms it refers to a
plan to take a product, or a version of the product, out of sale or
circulation or both.

For example, if you know a particular chip or motherboard of a device is
defective or problematic, you may choose to not recall it, but just replace
it in every instance of repair with the new revisions. In this way, you take
it out of circulation. When well tracked for manufacturing runs as small
as the 921, you could conceivably eliminate an older flash from circulation.

It really depends on a number of business/technical factors which most
companies would keep to close to the chest, so I wouldn't expect them
to publish any plans as such. Remember that software engineering that
is forked is much more time consuming than a single thread...I suspect
you know that all too well.



Mark Lamutt said:


> No, there isn't a summary of differences that I know of. In this case, I've told you everything that I know about it, from the Eldon guys.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by "Eol-ing" these devices. That's not a term I'm familiar with.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

The 921 isn't the only receiver that has different boot and flash versions out there. I know that from personal experience, for what it's worth.


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

Don't misunderstand... I think it probably is quite common. Heck, just 
ask anyone who buys a computer from Dell. Furthermore, both 921s
work beautifully... Well, I've had to eliminate OTA for the moment since
I moved from San Francisco to rural new york...

I'll compare notes between the devices closely... It may help things to
have someone checking out both devices in identical configurations.

-j



Mark Lamutt said:


> The 921 isn't the only receiver that has different boot and flash versions out there. I know that from personal experience, for what it's worth.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I absolutely agree on the comparison.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

It is also quite likely that the original components are no longer available. The 921 is essentially a PC. The motherboard/processor/memory/etc are all commodity items and over time they are discontinued and replaced by different versions. The next 1000 motherboards Dish orders might have to be different from the last 1000 simply because the manufacturer has discontinued the old ones.


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

If I recall, I remember reading something about how Charlie/Dish wished to
deprioritize the 921 in favor of "future units" because the cost per unit to 
manufacture was too high, offering slim, if any, margins. Part of the move
to leasing is to address these issues, but apparently the 921 was proving
even more difficult to deal with.

A good comparison is the xbox... Microsoft still loses money on each unit.
The least cost was working with a major outsourcer of fabrication called
Flextronics, who recently moved their entire operation from Hungary to
China to help get the price point down. Like the 921, the xbox is
essentially a PC with commodity parts, also with a hard drive.

I'm curious about these things in an odd way... Where the 921 is 
manufactured, who assembles them, etc... I'm guessing the 921 was the
first foray into this type of assembly for Dish?



Mike123abc said:


> It is also quite likely that the original components are no longer available. The 921 is essentially a PC. The motherboard/processor/memory/etc are all commodity items and over time they are discontinued and replaced by different versions. The next 1000 motherboards Dish orders might have to be different from the last 1000 simply because the manufacturer has discontinued the old ones.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I know that there have been a lot of speculative comments made by many people over the past few months about the 921 being "de-prioritized" and even discontinued. There have even been off-hand comments made by some upper-level Dish people about how they want the 921 to go away. There have been many comments about how the 942 is going to be the 921 replacement receiver.

There's no doubt that the 921 will have a shorter life cycle than the non-hd, non-pvr receivers. But, I don't believe for a minute that the end of the 921 life cycle will happen this year when the 942 is released to the public. I also don't believe for a minute that the consensus at Dish is to drop the 921 from development just as soon as they get a new receiver with some of the same functionality ready for it. Considering the development costs that went into the 921, discontinuing the 921 just as it is starting to become stable and viable for most people makes no business sense at all. 5 years from now the 921 may very well be a dinosaur and part of the past, but I just don't see that happening 5 months from now as others are speculating.


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## jsa_usenet (Oct 7, 2003)

I agree. The 921 also happens to be an amazing platform from which to
launch and test the next generation of features, such as Internet or
other technologies.

I'm obviously a believer, as I invested in two units.



Mark Lamutt said:


> I know that there have been a lot of speculative comments made by many people over the past few months about the 921 being "de-prioritized" and even discontinued. There have even been off-hand comments made by some upper-level Dish people about how they want the 921 to go away. There have been many comments about how the 942 is going to be the 921 replacement receiver.
> 
> There's no doubt that the 921 will have a shorter life cycle than the non-hd, non-pvr receivers. But, I don't believe for a minute that the end of the 921 life cycle will happen this year when the 942 is released to the public. I also don't believe for a minute that the consensus at Dish is to drop the 921 from development just as soon as they get a new receiver with some of the same functionality ready for it. Considering the development costs that went into the 921, discontinuing the 921 just as it is starting to become stable and viable for most people makes no business sense at all. 5 years from now the 921 may very well be a dinosaur and part of the past, but I just don't see that happening 5 months from now as others are speculating.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

For what it's worth, it looks like there are now 3 boot and flash versions out there.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Mike123abc said:


> It is also quite likely that the original components are no longer available. The 921 is essentially a PC. The motherboard/processor/memory/etc are all commodity items and over time they are discontinued and replaced by different versions. The next 1000 motherboards Dish orders might have to be different from the last 1000 simply because the manufacturer has discontinued the old ones.


Overall, I agree with you - except as regards the motherboard.

Considering all the non-PC junk that's soldered to the MB, plus the fact that it doesn't have the 'standard' PC I/O ports, I think it's a E* designed part and they have full control over it's availability.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I know that there have been a lot of speculative comments made by many people over the past few months about the 921 being "de-prioritized" and even discontinued. There have even been off-hand comments made by some upper-level Dish people about how they want the 921 to go away. There have been many comments about how the 942 is going to be the 921 replacement receiver.
> 
> There's no doubt that the 921 will have a shorter life cycle than the non-hd, non-pvr receivers. But, I don't believe for a minute that the end of the 921 life cycle will happen this year when the 942 is released to the public. I also don't believe for a minute that the consensus at Dish is to drop the 921 from development just as soon as they get a new receiver with some of the same functionality ready for it. Considering the development costs that went into the 921, discontinuing the 921 just as it is starting to become stable and viable for most people makes no business sense at all. 5 years from now the 921 may very well be a dinosaur and part of the past, but I just don't see that happening 5 months from now as others are speculating.


Yeah, I'd like to think that about the 921, but as a 721, which is still fairly quirky, and the abandoned 5000+modulator owner I just don't see how the facts support the case. I see Dish getting the 921 working just well enough that they can't be sued. That's it.


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