# Work around for no stretch for HD?



## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

I've got a widescreen CRT set, which I don't want to burn the middle only by having black bars on the side.

It seems to me that since the 942 will output SD over the component/HDMI outputs, that stretching isn't as important, as a TV set can scale SD just fine. Is it convenient to do use this route though? 

I'm just curious what everyone is doing about this issue, when they watch their locals news over the OTA (1080i in 4x3 format)?


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## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

there is not much you can do, the OTA locals are broadcasting a widescreen image. Its there 4:3 picture WITH black bars on the sides. ITs a 16:9 broadcast with only 4:3 image that moves/changes. You would have to use some kind of stretch partial zoom to see it any other way.

The question is does the 942 have a discrete codes for 480i or 480p?? like up arrow and then 6 or something like that??

Jon


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Jon, if you read my review, you'd know the answer to that question... 

It's not hugely inconvenient to make the output resolution change, but really your best solution is to move to a city where there's a station doing the news in HD (like Denver!).


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## DRJDAN (Apr 28, 2002)

Mark, which networks in Denver broadcast news in HD? Is it wide screen?


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

j5races said:


> there is not much you can do, the OTA locals are broadcasting a widescreen image. Its there 4:3 picture WITH black bars on the sides. ITs a 16:9 broadcast with only 4:3 image that moves/changes. You would have to use some kind of stretch partial zoom to see it any other way.
> 
> The question is does the 942 have a discrete codes for 480i or 480p?? like up arrow and then 6 or something like that??


Here is what Mark said in Part II of his review:



Mark Lamutt said:


> Because there is no longer a SD/HD button on the remote, this screen is the only way to change output resolution and aspect ratio. I have already requested a discrete remote input key sequence to change between the output resolutions and aspect ratios. I have also already requested a direct resolution passthrough mode, where the DVR-942 would output 1080i for 1080i broadcast channels and 720p for 720p broadcast channels. However, neither one of these features is currently available.


I am trying to figure out the best way to work around it. Do people plug both HD and SD signals into the TV and switch inputs on the TV, or do they find switching on the 942 easier? I am guessing most pipe both inputs into the TV.

HD local news sounds great Mark! Hopefully it will come here too soon. In all honesty though, I grew up in South Boulder, about a mile away from the NCAR building on the hill in front of the flat irons. No HD news then, I guess things have changed!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

KUSA, our NBC affiliate was the 4th station in the country to go HD for all local news broadcasts. The studio, all of the graphics, the traffic helicopter and about half of the local remote feeds are all in HD. The rest of the local remotes are in widescreen SD. The national remotes are in 4x3 with blue sidebars. It's a thing of beauty...

I have my 942 connected to my television via component from TV1 and composite from TV2. I have a macros written for my pronto to change the screen size to 4x3#2 and then change to the input TV2 is connected to. That's how I typically have been watching 4x3 SD and HD broadcasts.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Your Local NBC station sounds great! Wish I had something like that. :crying:

I'm a little confused by your work around.

From your review, you said,


Mark Lamutt said:


> Menu-6-2: Shared View: When you are in Single User mode, shared view allows you to output the same programming you are watching on your primary TV1 display to the TV2 output connections. If the programming you are watching on TV1 is high definition, it will be downconverted to standard definition and then output to the other televisions to which you are connected. Shared view is enabled by default.


I understand that if you want to have both HD and SD inputs going to your TV, according to your review, you need to be in single user mode if you want to watch OTA.

When in single user mode, doing this, why do you need to change the screen size? I thought that you could just set this once and for all for TV #2, even in single user mode. Did I overlook something in your review?


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## cschang (Apr 18, 2005)

OK...I am confused.

On an 16x9 HDTV, with the 942 hooked up via component, 16x9 HD content set to fill screen, how will 4x3 SD content be displayed?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

jsanders - I have to change the screen size because with the 921 in "Normal" mode, the SD picture output to the screen is a 4x3 image with black sidebars to make up the 16x9 screen area. I want the 4x3 SD picture to be stretched by my television, so to get around the black sidebars in Normal 16x9 mode, I change the 942 to 4x3#2 - this setting sends out only the 4x3 picture without the black sidebars, so my television can correctly stretch it like I want.

cschang - I basically answered it in my response to jsanders. 16x9 Normal mode, you get a 4x3 image with black sidebars on the sides. Stretch stretches the image linearly. Partial Zoom stretches the image horizontally, and half as much vertically. Zoom stretches the image the same amount horizontally and vertically. Gray Bars you get a 4x3 image with mostly gray sidebars on the sides.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Thanks for your patience Mark. I'm starting to think that maybe we are talking about different things now.

I understand the difference between 16x9 mode and 4x3 #2, and you really don't want to waste pixels by putting black bars on the screen, which is what 16x9 mode in SD will do.

What I don't understand is why you have to change between 16x9 normal mode in SD to 4x3 #2.

I thought that in Single user mode, you could independently set TV1 to 16x9 and TV2 to 4x3 #2.

Are you changing TV1 to 4x3 #2 and switching to SD mode, or are you switching the input on your TV to accept the TV2 input and setting TV2 to 4x3 #2? If it is the latter, I was thinking that you could independently set TV1 and TV2 to different aspect ratios. If you can set them to two different aspect ratios, and TV2 is always SD, the only thing I would have to do is change inputs on the TV. Will that work? If it does work, does that sound easier or harder? The third option is that I am just missing some details of what you are explaining to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and again, thanks for being patient with me.


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## cschang (Apr 18, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> cschang - I basically answered it in my response to jsanders. 16x9 Normal mode, you get a 4x3 image with black sidebars on the sides. Stretch stretches the image linearly. Partial Zoom stretches the image horizontally, and half as much vertically. Zoom stretches the image the same amount horizontally and vertically. Gray Bars you get a 4x3 image with mostly gray sidebars on the sides.


Thanks again Mark.

I should probably explain that I am a bit paranoid because of my current experience with Adelphia and the Moxi DVR.

Currently with the Moxi, SD 4x3 images are stretched to 16x9 (on 16x9 TVs). The only way to get the right format is to have Moxi output a 420 resolution and then having the TV handle the aspect ratio.....a PITA! So that is the reason for my paranoia.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

jsanders said:


> What I don't understand is why you have to change between 16x9 normal mode in SD to 4x3 #2.
> 
> I thought that in Single user mode, you could independently set TV1 to 16x9 and TV2 to 4x3 #2.


That's one of the current bugs (noted on my bug tracking list, and at the end of my review... ). The problem in single user mode is that TV1 and TV2 are not differentiated, so when you have TV1 set to 16x9, the TV2 output is anamorphically squeezed. We need a driver update from broadcom to fix this. It's not a problem in DUM, only SUM.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Thanks Mark! :jump3: 

Now I get it.

1st. If you want to watch OTA on TV2, you need to be in single user mode.

2nd. Independent aspect ratios for TV1 and TV2 exist only in dual user mode at present.

3rd. No stretch modes yet for HD content work on the 942.

That means you have to switch TV2 to 4x3 #2 and switch inputs on the TV, or you need to set TV1 to 480i, or 480p and then set TV1 to 4x3 #2. Either of those should allow the tv to do the stretching.

Unfortunately, neither sounds that convenient to do w/o a pronto remote.

Sorry for the confusion, I honestly did read through your review, however, there was that one detail that I wasn't incorporating. :scratch:


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Now you've got it. It took me a while to get my thought process worked around it as well.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Okay, I just thought of another scenario.

You can't watch OTA on TV2 while in dual user mode. Can you watch something pre-recorded from OTA on TV2 while in dual user mode??

If so, you can keep independant aspect ratios (TV1 = 16x9, TV2 = 4x3 #2), so all you need to do is switch the input on your TV to do the stretching!

Will it work??

If that works, then this is a work around for not being able to watch OTA live on TV2. Just start the recording on TV1, and watch 30 seconds delayed from the recording on TV2.

No zoom without an easy work around is kind of a show stopper for me, along with the legacy checkswitch problems. If it works, this would be an easy workaround for me, cuz I generally don't watch live stuff.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yes, yes, yes to answer the 3 questions. If you start recording OTA on TV1, and then start it delayed on TV2, you can't completely catch up to live on TV2 because the system won't let you.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Mark... Its been a couple weeks, have you heard any rumblings of when new code will be coming to resolve some of these issues?

I think I've asked something similiar when refering to a 4:3 TV, which when watching the HD component in from the 811 I have, I can never get full screen SD, its always 4:3 in 16:9 window. Since everyone's perspective here is from a 16:9 tv, I can only assume that the 942 will work similiarly to the 811 in its HD output via component on my TV. 

So based on this thread, I would need to use TV2 on another input to watch SD full screen and currently, because of the bug, I would have to be in dual mode, or the screen would look stretched in single mode. Correct?


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