# Bug Report: No longer have guide info on sat channels past 2:30



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

This may not just be a 921 issue. If inappropriate here, please move the thread, Mark.

Since Saturday afternoon, I lost my guide info on all sat channels. Power rebooting and check switch has not helped. It is still working this way. Friday night I was able to set up many timers over the next 8 days. The timers are still present but now the guide is gone. 

The guide only is working 2 hours and 30 minutes into the future. Past that it is just "No Description available." This makes setting the timers impossible.

I just checked my 6000 and it is doing the same thing except that it will update in about a minute. Consequently, I believe it is a new bug with the 921 and a possible change in the way the guide data is being received. 

Anyone see this as well?


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

Mine is still working.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

My guide's still good. Maybe your box missed the Sunday early AM update.

Let us know if it doesn't fix itself by tomorrow.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Called adv tech support number and spoke to tech. We skipped all the dish check because I told him I already did this but he had me do a power reboot to refresh everything. Then he sent a signal to my receiver and the guide info popped back up that quick. He said this is a known issue and will happen sporadically with L184. He said it should get fixed in a software update that we should see in about 30 days. He said this was also a problem with the 811 about 2-3 weeks ago and was corrected in that latest software. 

Mark- Can you get permission to post known issues with these releases? I know you post the intended fixes but if they break something, why do we have to discover it if it is known to E*? I assume your NDA forbids certain disclosure, but seems strange that the techs freely discuss what is known when we call in. Some of the issues must be fixed by a call to the adv tech guys.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Don - that was the first time I'd heard about this one. And, it's not one that I've seen personally. "Known Issue" usually means 2 or 3 users have called in about it. 

Currently the way the system works is this: I know about the issues that I've found, and the issues that you all have found and posted here in the forum. Occasionally I'll get information from the developers about other things, but that's more exception than normal.

I say currently, because it's not going to be this way for much longer, and I'm very happy about that.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

I had the same problem this past week. I went on travel and came home to see if my timers fired. Zip, zilch, nada. 0-3 fired and I made sure to leave it on a SAT channel.

I looked at the guide and had Info Unavailable on every single fricken channel.

Pulled the plug and let sit for a few minutes and powered back up.

Guide info is now back and looking good.

Last night I set a timer for Terminator III on HBO-HD. Left the 921 parked on HBO while we went out to dinner. Came home, you guessed it, the timer didn't fire again. This time all guide data was there.

Not a happy camper at the moment.............


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## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

Mine is fine. I even scrolled ahead 20hrs while in guide to set a timer for TNT-HD Salem's Lot part 2 last night.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

OK, Mark. I do understand as you know, been there done that. The only really impressive, informative beta beta group I was in was the one run by Gary Yost from Autodesk. We had weekly meetings where all issues were listed and we all worked as a beta team approach. This was for 3D Studio. Seems the other beta teams I was on, I was also kept in the dark as to what others knew. Somehow I got the impression you had a two way street going but too bad it is not. 

ibglowin- So far this issue did not affect my timers from firing, it just made it near impossible to set them up once the guide info was gone. The guide would fill out as time progressed but only for 2hrs and 30 minutes beyond that channels last entry from present time. 

The nice thing was when the tech said he knew about this problem and they had a fix for it. And, that the fix was developed with the 811 bug. The bad news is that this bug may surface again until the software corrects it. They believe the 811 is now fixed. I don't think this is specifically a 921 issue but rather a general receiver guide issue and what they are doing. I can't recall if he mentioned the other receivers besides the 811.



Just so everyone knows, the quick fix on this is to call in and have then execute a sat hit to your receiver to refresh the guide.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> OK, Mark. I do understand as you know, been there done that. The only really impressive, informative beta beta group I was in was the one run by Gary Yost from Autodesk. We had weekly meetings where all issues were listed and we all worked as a beta team approach. This was for 3D Studio. Seems the other beta teams I was on, I was also kept in the dark as to what others knew. Somehow I got the impression you had a two way street going but too bad it is not.


I know you know...  To this point, I've got a little bit more of a two-way exchange going on just because I've basically forced the issue. Things are going to get very much better here soon, though... (and I'm VERY happy about it!)


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Well, I spoke too soon without knocking on wood! Both timers I had set for today failed to fire and record. I even checked that they were pending 15 minutes before the intended time. I had the 921 set to one sat channel that was supposed to record and it just ignored the timer. I manually did a menu about 30 minutes into the program and forced the record "entire event" we'll see what it does. 

Well, that didn't work as the darn event is still recording well after the movie is over. Can't shut it off so I am rebooting the 921 again. 

I'm beginning to agree that if we can't move forward, lets have a "downdate" this week to revert back to L182. At least my timers and guide were partially functional with that version.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I know you know...  To this point, I've got a little bit more of a two-way exchange going on just because I've basically forced the issue. Things are going to get very much better here soon, though... (and I'm VERY happy about it!)


Mark,

I am seriously dead in the water. I can't get a timer to fire at all. I have set several now for only an hour in the future,left the 921 tuned to the same channel and nothing happens. No Mr. Blinky, nothing. The event will be listed in the timers menu after I set it, but then disappears the moment it was supposed to have fired. I can do a manual record just fine.

How many others are experiencing this?


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

I had the same thing couple weeks ago. Lost the guide date, timers didnt fire,, 0 second recordings,, all in 1 week. I ended up wiping everything off the 921, all recorded shows, all timers, OTA channels. Did a power cord reboot (about 10 mins ), rechecked switch, re scanned OTA's then did another power cord reboot. Added timers back in with padding of 0, tested all OTA channels. Everything seems to be fine now with the exception of the weekly OTA recording shows 3 shows,, a 0 sec recording, wifes soap for 60 mins , then another 0 sec recording. Pain in the arse but at least its working. SD recordings are even working again.


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

I lost my program guide again this morning. Front panel reset nor power cord reset fixed the problem. Called advanced tech support who knew nothing about any signal to send to my unit. She said that she would file an incident with the engineers and one of them would call me some day. Still had no program guide when I left this morning for work. I also have had the problem with timers not firing. It is extremely annoying to be paying a dvr fee when you can't record anything. Mark will probably blast me again for saying this, but I still think that the programmers for this unit are totally incompetent.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

ibglowin said:


> Mark,
> 
> I am seriously dead in the water. I can't get a timer to fire at all. I have set several now for only an hour in the future,left the 921 tuned to the same channel and nothing happens. No Mr. Blinky, nothing. The event will be listed in the timers menu after I set it, but then disappears the moment it was supposed to have fired. I can do a manual record just fine.
> 
> How many others are experiencing this?


If you read the other two threads about timer problems, you'll see that everyone else is experiencing this. The current solution is that you must force a reboot at minimum every 10 days or timers will cease functioning. 10 days is my number, based on my testing showing the actual number is between 10 days, 14 hours and 10 days, 18 hours. Pull the power cord, leave unplugged for a couple of minutes, and then plug back in. This will clear the memory leak that is preventing timers from firing until 10 days in the future. Other users are recommending a reboot more often than that - once a week or so.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> If you read the other two threads about timer problems, you'll see that everyone else is experiencing this. The current solution is that you must force a reboot at minimum every 10 days or timers will cease functioning. 10 days is my number, based on my testing showing the actual number is between 10 days, 14 hours and 10 days, 18 hours. Pull the power cord, leave unplugged for a couple of minutes, and then plug back in. This will clear the memory leak that is preventing timers from firing until 10 days in the future. Other users are recommending a reboot more often than that - once a week or so.


That sounds great only I did a full pull the plug reboot on Thursday night when I discovered I had no guide data. Left it unplugged for about 5 minutes and rebooted. Guide data came back up just fine but I have still not been able to get a timer to fire since then. I have set 8 now since then.

I will pull the plug again at lunch and see if perhaps the second time is a "charm".

Thanks,


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

hmmmm...that is a problem... how are you setting the timers, and what channels are you setting the timers on that are failing?


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> hmmmm...that is a problem... how are you setting the timers, and what channels are you setting the timers on that are failing?


Tried a bunch. ESPNHD, HDNET, DiscoveryHD, HBOHD all sat channels. I gave up on OTA timers months ago.

Will try rebooting again and set a few more today.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

To those having lost guide info on the sat channels-Try to get an adv tech named Kevin. He works after midnight ET. I know the other adv techs should be aware of this but we all recognize that for some dumb reason E* has a serious communication problem keeping their people informed of all the issues. I have addressed this with some people I know in engineering and their comment is that many on the CSR side just do not read their memos. As a former manager in industry I can certainly appreciate his excuse!

OK, ask for Kevin and you have my permission to remind him he fixed "Don Landis' 921 with the lost guide on 6/21 0030 hours. Hopefully that should work. 

As for the timer failure- I have to report that several timers fired OK last evening and early this morning.Mark, Thanks very much for your announcement at the top of the section. It is the best way to do this so the "announcements aren't cluttered with posts. Love it!

Just one comment. I feel the recommendation with L184 should be a daily power plug reboot. 10 days seems way too long considering all the issues being reported that seem to get fixed temporarily for some people. Not sure why the smart card swap but I'll take your word for it. 
I also understand, from a technical reason why rolling back to L182 my not be possible. (Actually, I suspect the programmers are doing one patch after another and the current package is a total mess of patches. Saw this happen with Fast Video Machine and it was finally decided to redo the entire program from scratch but even that had serious flaws.)
Anyway, glad you got permission to make these "announcements" and I plan to do the appliance timer thing starting today! I need to rig up a ground wire bypass for the timer as mine do not have 3 prong wiring.  I would hate to cause other non-grounding problems with the timer for reboot work around.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

My guide is fine.......


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

I still did not have my EPG when I got home from work last night. After several more reboots (front panel, power cord, and smart card) and switch checks, it finally came back. I then set several timers (all for international channels on satellite 148). This morning, not one of the timers had fired. I deleted everything from the DVR list and did another power cord reboot. I have several timers set up again. I will have to wait until I get home to find out if any of them fire. It appears that E*'s solution of rebooting is not a definitive answer to the timers not firing since I had rebooted several times prior to setting the last batch.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Well I did a power cord reboot yesterday. Pulled the plug and took the dog for a walk and came back 30 minutes later and powered back up.

Set 2 timers on different sat channels and went back to work. Came home and for the first time in several weeks they actually fired!

I see a lamp timer attached to my 921 in my future.........


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Mine has fired just fine with the timers since I rebooted last week (and I've rebooted every few days every since), BUT my software based blue line problem came back. I rebooted on the way out the door this morning and I'll report back whether it sent the problem away for a few weeks again......


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

leemathre said:


> ... I deleted everything from the DVR list and did another power cord reboot.


Do you mean your timers, or your recorded programs?

I've not heard of any benefit to deleting recordings, but have had success by deleting all timers and doing a power-cord reboot. This seems to clear the timer database of whatever got farkled.


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

There were no more timers set and all of the ones that did not fire were gone, so I deleted the recorded events. There were only a couple and they were not really important. I deleted them because I just wanted to have as clean a system as possible before I tried another reboot. BTW, when I got home this evening, the timers I had set before I left all worked and I still have my program guide. Who knows how long this will last.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Don't forget to do your weekly power-cord reboot. With a little luck, that'll keep ya going. According to Mark, 10 days is the high limit before it goes bonkers, so weekly is cool.


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

I don't think I have ever been able to go an entire week with rebooting to fix one of the myriad of problems with this unit.


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

Count me in as having problems with recordings and program info.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I installed an appliance timer today to power down the 921 once per day for 15 minutes at 6AM. I had to install a ground wire bypass on the timer so the grounded power cord would still be valid.


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

Just got off the phone with Dish. Ran thru an extensive review of my satellite signals and power off button resets...outcome still no full guide data, at most guide info is only two hours into the future. Told to call back if the quide is still not getting info, may have to replace the unit.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

jcord51 said:


> Just got off the phone with Dish. Ran thru an extensive review of my satellite signals and power off button resets...outcome still no full guide data, at most guide info is only two hours into the future. Told to call back if the quide is still not getting info, may have to replace the unit.


I might've answered this already - here or elsewhere, but don't worry about your guide unless it's not there tomorrow morning. EPG generally appears overnight. I've actually seen it hit - somewhere around 04:30 Eastern time.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

jcord51:

Read posts #4, 8, 18 of this thread. This loss of guide data seems to be a bug floating through various receivers with an origin at the uplink level. The 811 had it ladt month and this month it is hitting 721 and 921. It is a random strike issue and doesn't affect everyone.


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

I really do not want to exchange my unit (vintage January 04) but I have to tell everyone that you must call dish directly to document your problems. We at the forum are always venting our feelings and findings but the CRSs always say that this is the very first airing of this or any problem you give them. Do call if you want the 921 to work. The last CRS did confess to looking at the forum from time to time, she even has her own 921, which she states has been flawless.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I believe if you are hearing from a CSR that this missing guide data is a new issue then the CSR you are talking to has not read their memos on the issue. The CSR I spoke with said it has been reported in early May and is not restricted to the 921 but was first reported with the 811.

I also believe that dishonesty is the rule when it comes to customer (no) service. I have spoken to several CSR's (off the record) who worked for AOL and they were told never to admit that an issue is common or better to just say that the caller is the first it has been reported.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> ... I have spoken to several CSR's (off the record) who worked for AOL and they were told never to admit that an issue is common or better to just say that the caller is the first it has been reported.


I used to work for a software company whose marketing director had the same attitude. When I became support manager, I ended that practice immediately. When you tell a customer they're the only one with a problem, they immediately think the problem will not be fixed because it only affects them. If they know it's known and being worked on, that's better - *as long as it really is being worked on!*


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## jcord51 (Feb 1, 2003)

This time around when I called I told them that I wanted to be compensated...credit $15. It's not the money that I want I just want a good working product that performs as promised. This is a multi-million dollar company and if enough of us ask to be compensated believe me it will get fixed one way or another. There is no reason why Tivo can make a more stabile product than Dish. Dish has been at this just as long.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"When you tell a customer they're the only one with a problem, they immediately think the problem will not be fixed because it only affects them. If they know it's known and being worked on, that's better - as long as it really is being worked on!"_

Yep-- I reported a problem once to a rather sizable company, I won't mention their name but was told, "your the first person to ever report a problem with that..."
"Yeah?", I said. "I'm flattered you people set up a whole department and call in center just to wait around for me to report in. "

He busted a gut with laughter and then told me they were instructed to say that. Then he said if his super listens to the recording he'll probably get fired for admitting that. He also told me that their tech support people are all not a bunch of drones, as he called it, but they are real people but have to attend classes on how to maintain that mindless approach to all callers. I wonder if he ever did get fired for being honest with me.

_"There is no reason why Tivo can make a more stabile product than Dish. Dish has been at this just as long."_
jcord- I'll bet that the tivo just has different issues, not that it is so much better than the 921. Some of those issues are not important to some people while others are. I would be real annoyed with the slow guide and the intermittant audio or loss of video from the DVI out but many seem to not be bothered by this. A few have reported about the heat build up that causes the TIVO to hang and won't respond until it cools off by being shut off with power cord pulled for an hour or two. How's that compared to our GSOD where we lost the 921 for 5 minutes. 
IMO, there is no perfect world on the other side of the fence. The grass is greener it seems because more fertilizer is being spread by the owners. If you move to the tivo, you just trade 921 problems for tivo problems. For some, this may be a better deal. Each person must decide on their own what's important and best for them. I will say that some of the third party stuff going on with the tivo is very exciting. While E* kills the Dishwire feature, 3rd party tivo-heads already have a hard drive expansion kit selling and a process to dump out to DVHS via a PC go-between. Yes, very exciting and ironic.


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