# HBO Max finally revealed (AT&T video subscribers with HBO subscription gets it for free)



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Full FAQ from HBO Max themselves

Cost: $14.99/mo
Content: See list
Launch Date: *May 27, 2020*
Check the chart below to see if your existing HBO subscription will include HBO Max at no additional cost. (Last updated 4/28/2020)










What about non-AT&T/Spectrum subscribers?
Check their website / FAQ closer to launch for HBO subscribers through a other cable/TV providers.


What about non-Apple/Google Play Store third party billed HBO Now subscribers?
Check their website / FAQ closer to launch for details.

*AT&T Wireless Plans Help Section*

AT&T Unlimited Elite: Login to your account at https://att.com/myatt to redeem your HBO benefit. If you migrated from Unlimited Plus/Plus Enhanced to Unlimited Elite you must complete this step to keep HBO free!! | For a step-by-step list of redemption instructions go to their Unlimited Plans page, scroll down to the FAQ and select "How do I get HBO?"
AT&T Unlimited &More Premium: For help on how to redeem your free premium benefit please see this help article.
AT&T Unlimited Plus/Choice (included Enhanced versions): For information on how your HBO benefit works with your grandfathered plan please see this page.
*AT&T WatchTV / &More Plans Specific FAQ*

*I subscribe to the $15 AT&T WatchTV channel bundle. What is the benefit for me to pay $17.99/mo for HBO through WatchTV when other services like HBO Now charge $14.99/mo?*
AT&T WatchTV customers who subscribe to HBO will also have access to HBO Max when it launches in May 2020. An HBO subscription through WatchTV will give you 3 linear HBO channels (HBO, HBO Family and HBO Latino), HBO On Demand and HBO Go in addition to HBO Max when it launches. In comparison HBO Now doesn't include any linear channels.

*I have Unlimited &More Premium but I selected HBO as my free premium benefit. Do I need to do anything?*
No! You are all set to enjoy HBO Max when the service launches in May 2020! Just use your existing credentials that you use to access HBO Go to access HBO Max when it launches.
However if you change your free premium benefit from HBO to another premium (like Starz or Spotify) you will lose access to HBO & HBO Max and will have to wait 12 months to change back or subscribe to HBO through AT&T WatchTV at rack rate (see below question for more information.)



*I have Unlimited &More Premium but I selected a different premium like Spotify as my free premium. What is the benefit of paying $17.99/mo for HBO through WatchTV?*
For $17.99/mo you get 3 linear HBO channels (HBO, HBO Family and HBO Latino), HBO On Demand and HBO Go. AT&T WatchTV customers with an HBO subscription will also have HBO Max included in their HBO subscriptions at no additional cost when the service launches in May 2020.


*I have &More which includes the free WatchTV channel bundle doesn't included a free premium. What is the benefit of paying $17.99/mo for HBO through WatchTV?*
For $17.99/mo you get 3 linear HBO channels (HBO, HBO Family and HBO Latino), HBO On Demand and HBO Go. AT&T WatchTV customers with an HBO subscription will also have HBO Max included in their HBO subscriptions at no additional cost when the service launches in May 2020.

_Updated: 05/02/2020 - Updated quick guide and Hulu_


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Will there be an added sat channel?
Directv subs will just get cinemax mixed into the HBO package with liner channels showing some of the VOD stuff?

And a price cut of HBO to $14.99? Just be part of choice or higher?

Now Free HBO can make up for the cubs channel and likely an $10/mo rsn fee.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Will there be an added sat channel?
> Directv subs will just get cinemax mixed into the HBO package with liner channels showing some of the VOD stuff?
> 
> And a price cut of HBO to $14.99? Just be part of choice or higher?
> ...


No... *HBO Max* is AT&T's latest streaming service they are launching in May 2020 to compete with Netflix, Disney +, Apple TV + and Comcast's Peacock. There is no linear channel for *HBO Max*.

*HBO* and *Cinemax* will continue on just as they always have on pay-TV providers with no price drop.

*HBO*'s price on DirecTV will still be $17.99 for its suite of 10 linear channels, on-demand and HBO GO streaming service. However DirecTV subscribers with an active HBO subscription won't have to pay for *HBO Max*. The same goes for U-Verse TV, AT&T TV, AT&T TV Now and AT&T WatchTV. If you subscribe to DirecTV (or any other AT&T video service) but don't pay for *HBO* then you will need to pay for *HBO Max*.

AT&T announced they will create bundles of *HBO Max* only with their premium, OTT service *AT&T TV*, AT&T Internet and AT&T Wireless.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> No... *HBO Max* is AT&T's latest streaming service they are launching in May 2020 to compete with Netflix, Disney +, Apple TV + and Comcast's Peacock. There is no linear channel for *HBO Max*.
> 
> *HBO* and *Cinemax* will continue on just as they always have on pay-TV providers with no price drop.
> 
> ...


Nice to see folks that sub to HBO Now will be transitioned to HBO Max.

Rich


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Rich said:


> Nice to see folks that sub to HBO Now will be transitioned to HBO Max.
> 
> Rich


Yes, although for now, they're saying that the only HBO Now customers who actually gain access at no additional cost to the HBO Max app will be those who subscribe to HBO Now directly through them, i.e. those who signed up at HBONow.com and let HBO/AT&T bill their cards directly. But I'm sure that most HBO Now subs signed up inside the app, which means that they get billed by the controlling app store from which they downloaded the app: Apple, Google, Amazon or Roku. (Also, at least some third-party digital HBO distributors, such as Prime Video Channels and Hulu, allow their subscribers to log into the HBO Now app with their Prime Video or Hulu credentials. Likewise, those customers do not automatically gain access to HBO Max.) Note that in those cases, the biller/distributor gets a cut of the monthly fee. (Apple and Google publicly state that they take a 30% cut of subscription revenue in the first year, dropping to 20% thereafter, although it's certainly possible that major services can and do negotiate lower cuts for the app stores than that.)

The big picture is this: if you currently get HBO in any format, and the company that you directly pay your subscription fee to is HBO/AT&T, then you'll immediately and automatically become an HBO Max subscriber when it debuts next spring (while still retaining, for awhile anyway, the ability to use your current HBO Go or HBO Now app too, if you still want to use it for whatever reason). This category amounts to about 10 million out of HBO's current 34 million US subs.

For the other ~70% of HBO subscribers, who pay some other company for their subscription (e.g. Comcast, Charter, Verizon, Amazon, Apple, etc.), whether or not you'll be transitioned over to HBO Max, and if so, whether it will be at the same price you currently pay, is all up in the air, to be determined by the various negotiations currently ongoing between AT&T and those various distributors. AT&T's goal is to transition *all* HBO subscribers over to HBO Max. And while they're being (IMO) aggressive on the retail direct-to-consumer price of HBO Max, holding it at the same $15 typically charged for HBO, I would bet that AT&T is trying to raise the wholesale price that they receive from their distribution partners for HBO Max vs. HBO.

The only credible figure I've seen for the average wholesale price for HBO came from an industry analyst who said that it's about $7.65 per sub per month. My guess is that AT&T wants to increase that to the $10-11 range for HBO Max (which, if I had to guess, is probably about the same as the average wholesale price that AT&T gets for an HBO+Cinemax combo subscription* from cable operators). But if Comcast charged, say, a $16 retail price for HBO Max and could keep $5 of that, that would still be a 31.25% cut for them, which I would definitely bet is better than whatever commission Netflix gives anyone. (And Netflix doesn't even allow in-app sign-ups any more, so they don't pay any commissions to digital distributors like Apple and Roku any more for new customers, only for existing customers who signed up that way in the past.)

*Potentially related development: this year, both Comcast and Charter have removed Cinemax from their large channel bundles that include lots of basic channels plus HBO and Showtime, while holding the price of those bundles the same. My theory is that those two MVPDs -- who, along with AT&T, account for the vast majority of HBO subscribers (remember, DISH no longer carries it) -- are getting ready to switch out HBO+Cinemax in their bundles for HBO Max, while holding the price of those bundles steady. Meanwhile, on their a la carte menu of premium services, they'll switch out regular HBO for HBO Max and either charge the same price or maybe a buck more. (MVPDs can easily get away charging $16 for HBO Max a la carte while it's priced at $15 as a standalone streamer. Folks will gladly pay an extra dollar to have the service integrated into their cable box and on the same cable bill.)


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I wonder if AT&T would someday want to get rid of all of their live TV services and just go with HBO/Max? That way they would have to go through the hassle of channel contract negotiations. They could get rid of the channels they own except maybe for CNN and just keep using their content on HBO/Max.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Will there be an added sat channel?
> Directv subs will just get cinemax mixed into the HBO package with liner channels showing some of the VOD stuff?


With the name HBO Max, I can see why you think that it includes Cinemax, given that they've always nicknamed/abbreviated that service as "Max". (Cinemax's streaming app is even named Max Go.) And an otherwise pretty accurate article this past summer from the WSJ said that HBO Max will, in fact, include Cinemax content. That said, AT&T hasn't said a peep about HBO Max including anything from Cinemax. Maybe the article was wrong on that point. Or maybe AT&T wants to keep that point under wraps for whatever reason.

I've been saying, and still believe, that Cinemax will cease to exist as a service/brand in 2020 when HBO Max launches (or at some point in the following months). I don't see how it really fits into AT&T's overall long-term pay TV strategy, which is really only about 3 services going forward: HBO Max, AT&T TV and DirecTV (with the emphasis on the first two, with DirecTV gradually fading from the scene over several years).

Cinemax just doesn't serve much purpose any more. It was originally launched to be a movies-only sibling service to HBO in the early 80s. But it really has only ever shared the same film library with HBO. They juggle movies back and forth between them to give the illusion of variety but it's all the same stuff. Then Cinemax become known as a soft-core porn destination (an association that permanently tarnished its brand, IMO -- if you're looking for that stuff now, it's all over the internet, who needs a premium cable channel for it?). Finally, in the past decade, they invested modestly in a string of Cinemax Original series with a particular focus on men -- action and thriller shows like Strike Back, Banshee, and Warrior with a broader, pulpier tone than the higher-brow award-winning HBO Originals.

But in their big HBO Max unveiling, the company said that HBO itself skews male and middle-age/older. So the other stuff that they're adding to HBO under the new HBO Max service will skew female and younger to help broaden out the overall service's reach. So what value does Cinemax add to the company's overall portfolio of services? It has to skew even more male than HBO. It's never been offered as a direct-to-consumer streaming service like HBO Now and as a brand is largely absent from the cultural conversation except as a dirty joke via the "Skinemax" moniker. So my guess is that Cinemax holds little appeal for Millennials and younger consumers.

This is why I think AT&T will just say to their cable partners like Comcast and Charter, "Hey, we're going to shut down Cinemax. In all those bundles you sell that include HBO and Cinemax, just swap them out for HBO Max and pay us the same wholesale rate." The library of Cinemax Originals will become available in the HBO Max on-demand library while the Cinemax brand and channels just quietly die. There aren't many current Cinemax Originals in production now, except for two new series that premiered this year, Warrior and Jett (the latter with a female lead, an oddity for Cinemax). If either gets renewed for additional seasons, I imagine they'll just be rebranded as "Max Originals," the name for the new line of originals exclusive to HBO Max.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> I wonder if AT&T would someday want to get rid of all of their live TV services and just go with HBO/Max? That way they would have to go through the hassle of channel contract negotiations. They could get rid of the channels they own except maybe for CNN ansd just keep using their content on HBO/Max.


They are making over $4 billion a year from Directv, so maybe someday when that profit goes away but it will be a LONG time before they get there.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> They are making over $4 billion a year from Directv, so maybe someday when that profit goes away but it will be a LONG time before they get there.


Sorry I should have said eventually getting rid of AT&T TV for just HBO/Max when AT&T would replace, DTV, UVerseTV and AT&T TV Now.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> "Hey, we're going to shut down Cinemax. In all those bundles you sell that include HBO and Cinemax, just swap them out for HBO Max and pay us the same wholesale rate."


And the reply will be - go [bleep] yourselves. HBO is seven channels, Cinemax is seven channels. While not every carrier carries all seven channels of both services, the cable/linear distributors are not going to pay the price they are paying for up to 14 channels and only get seven. Cable/linear distributors are primarily paying for linear channels - not streamed access to the libraries. They want channels on their lineup. Take away channels and they will want to pay less.

As a cost savings I can see Cinemax killing their west feeds and adjusting their programming to make it acceptable during earlier west coast viewing hours (although satellite viewers get the east feeds on the west coast). But reducing the number of Cinemax channels or eliminating the service can't be done while expecting distributors to pay the same or more for the combination.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

CraigerM said:


> Sorry I should have said eventually getting rid of AT&T TV for just HBO/Max when AT&T would replace, DTV, UVerseTV and AT&T TV Now.


The way AT&T TV subscribership is going, AT&T may end up being only HBO Max via streaming. DIRECTV and UVERSE will continue as long as they are profitable. (Profit is more important that subscriber count.)


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

James Long said:


> The way AT&T TV subscribership is going, AT&T may end up being only HBO Max via streaming. DIRECTV and UVERSE will continue as long as they are profitable. (Profit is more important that subscriber count.)


That's an interesting way of looking at it. What would they do if AT&T TV failed?


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> And the reply will be - go [bleep] yourselves. HBO is seven channels, Cinemax is seven channels. While not every carrier carries all seven channels of both services, the cable/linear distributors are not going to pay the price they are paying for up to 14 channels and only get seven. Cable/linear distributors are primarily paying for linear channels - not streamed access to the libraries. They want channels on their lineup. Take away channels and they will want to pay less.
> 
> As a cost savings I can see Cinemax killing their west feeds and adjusting their programming to make it acceptable during earlier west coast viewing hours (although satellite viewers get the east feeds on the west coast). But reducing the number of Cinemax channels or eliminating the service can't be done while expecting distributors to pay the same or more for the combination.


Wrong. I would bet that a HUGE amount of the premium service content consumed by Comcast and Charter customers comes through their on-demand platforms and the providers' own apps which they authenticate (e.g. HBO Go, Showtime Anytime, etc.). And those MVPDs understand as much as anyone that the whole game is shifting to on-demand streaming, which is why they're signing up as distributors for those services. (Let's see how many MVPDs jump on board to distribute Disney+.)

How much does AT&T spend on Cinemax original programming? Not that much. How much are they going to spend on Max Originals that will be exclusive to HBO Max? Not to mention all of the licensed content like BBC series, South Park, CW series, etc.

HBO Max will have over twice as much content as regular HBO. Cinemax has only a fraction of the number of hours of content that HBO does. Trading Cinemax for HBO Max is a win for viewers, especially if HBO Max ends up offering the entire library of past Cinemax Originals.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> The way AT&T TV subscribership is going, AT&T may end up being only HBO Max via streaming. DIRECTV and UVERSE will continue as long as they are profitable. (Profit is more important that subscriber count.)


AT&T TV hasn't even launched nationwide yet. I think you're talking about AT&T TV Now, although I don't think we've seen the ultimate iteration of that service either. At any rate, once AT&T TV launches nationwide (was supposed to happen this quarter, now sounds like it will be Q1 2020), it will be the exclusive MVPD option sold to AT&T broadband customers, with sales of Uverse TV immediately dropped. (They've already stopped selling Uverse TV in the AT&T TV pilot markets like St. Louis.)


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

What is the definition of "failed" for AT&T TV? The only definition that matters is AT&T's. If they sell it at a price that is profitable to them, and it gives them a more modern platform to sell to Uverse customers so they can phase out Uverse TV, they might consider it a "success" if it only has a few million subscribers. At least in the first few years.

When they bought Directv their overall goal would be for the combination of Uverse TV and Directv to be more profitable to them than Uverse TV alone was and would be in the future. Given the content cost differential between Uverse TV and Directv they were probably barely breaking even on Uverse TV before and likely had projected losses on it down the road. All the smaller cable companies are now saying they feel lucky to break even on TV and only keep selling selling TV + internet as a package helps sell both but if they have a customer drop TV they don't care if they can keep them as an internet customer.

Directv has so far made them $22 billion and is generating over $4 billion a year in free cash flow, and the reduced content cost has made Uverse TV more profitable as well. This all needs to eventually pay the cost of the acquisition, which is somewhere between $50 and $68 billion depending on how you account for it - so they are about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way there. They need AT&T TV to contribute something to that profit eventually, so while in the short term "act as a good landing spot for Uverse TV customers" is probably good enough, in the long term it needs to help drive customers towards AT&T for internet service is much more profitable than TV. The reach of Uverse will always remain limited, this means driving customers towards fixed wireless 5G in a few years when AT&T is able to sell it in much of the country.

That's the goal - if it can stack up well against Comcast/Spectrum bundles then it will do well. Even with MVPDs declining due to cord cutting it will do well. MVPDs are losing about 1% of their customers a quarter, so it will be a long slow fall - it will still be a viable business to be in through most of the next decade and perhaps well beyond that.

HBO Max is a separate thing that's not targeted at the MVPD customers, but targeted at those who have left MVPDs behind. Selling both AT&T TV and HBO Max gives them a way to go after all video customers, both those who still want traditional package based TV, and those who have cut the cord and just want to stream on demand and aren't interested in live TV like sports.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

My TV provider charges $21 just for HBO so it’s a no brainer for me, I will cancel HBO channels save $6/mo and subscribe to HBO Max.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> AT&T TV hasn't even launched nationwide yet. I think you're talking about AT&T TV Now, although I don't think we've seen the ultimate iteration of that service either. At any rate, once AT&T TV launches nationwide (was supposed to happen this quarter, now sounds like it will be Q1 2020), it will be the exclusive MVPD option sold to AT&T broadband customers, with sales of Uverse TV immediately dropped. (They've already stopped selling Uverse TV in the AT&T TV pilot markets like St. Louis.)


I'm talking about whatever streaming AT&T ends up offering ... regardless of branding.

There is no such thing as "exclusive" via broadband. The only way AT&T can force broadband customers to buy AT&T TV is if they don't sell broadband separately. That would not go over well. I don't believe AT&T is willing to sacrifice their broadband customers to boost their TV subscription numbers.

Apply any brand you want - but I see AT&T moving forward with two main streaming options. One is their MVPD option ... trying to deliver "DIRECTV via streaming", which has proven much harder to do than those pushing the concept made it sound. Years after the merger and there is no "DIRECTV via streaming". Perhaps another thousand word essay will explain the difference between AT&T Now (formerly DIRECTV Now) and AT&T TV? Or just add so much noise that no one, including the author, will know the difference? "Both" are MVPD services - and I don't expect "AT&T TV" to have the magic pill that would have made "AT&T Now" a success.

The second streaming option will be AT&T's content - not an MVPD option, but their own channel and content similar to other providers that sell their own created or licensed content via streaming. That will be the forthcoming "HBO Max" offering.

Separate from their direct to customer sales (the MVPD and the stream their own content services) AT&T will continue to sell their content via other MVPDs. I expect subscribers will get more for their money if they are paying AT&T directly than if they are paying through an MVPD. But that also annoys their MVPD partners. Especially when the subscribers can go around the MVPD subscription and get the same or more content without the MVPD getting their cut.

It has been a full year since HBO played hardball with DISH and lost millions of subscribers. They gained many of them back via HBO Now (including when DISH promoted HBO Now for the Game of Thrones release). Why should a customer with broadband pay a MVPD for HBO when they can get it directly from AT&T|HBO? If AT&T plays hardball with their other MVPD partners they could end up being the exclusive distributor of their own channels. Is that better for AT&T?

So I expect that when the dust settles there will be "AT&T TV" with different tiers and packages as an MVPD, "HBO Max" with different variations as a "stream your owned content" company, AT&T as a content provider for other MVPDs - and of course the satellite service MVPD. if AT&T finds the magic pill they have a chance to reverse their decline - worst case scenario they take the logic that is killing DIRECTV Now rebranded as AT&T Now and apply it to their reasonably successful Uverse business and figure out how to lose those 5 million subscribers. Other operators are standing by, ready to serve.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Their FAQ goes into more detail on who will get *HBO Max* for free. For third party providers of *HBO* and *HBO Now* it seems they want to include them but haven't hammered out all the details yet.

Essentially AT&T is saying anyone of their active customers who has an active *HBO* subscription won't need to cancel it as they will get *HBO Max* included. This includes any of their wireless plans that has a free *HBO* benefit (grandfathered Unlimited Choice/Plus, soon to be grandfathered Unlimited &More Premium with HBO and the new Unlimited Elite.) Customers who have an active AT&T video services like DirecTV, U-Verse TV, AT&T TV, AT&T TV Now or AT&T Watch TV with an active *HBO* subscription will also get *HBO Max* at no additional cost. For them it gives consumers a reason to keep their existing AT&T services.



NashGuy said:


> *Potentially related development: this year, both Comcast and Charter have removed Cinemax from their large channel bundles that include lots of basic channels plus HBO and Showtime, while holding the price of those bundles the same. My theory is that those two MVPDs -- who, along with AT&T, account for the vast majority of HBO subscribers (remember, DISH no longer carries it) -- are getting ready to switch out HBO+Cinemax in their bundles for HBO Max, while holding the price of those bundles steady. Meanwhile, on their a la carte menu of premium services, they'll switch out regular HBO for HBO Max and either charge the same price or maybe a buck more. (MVPDs can easily get away charging $16 for HBO Max a la carte while it's priced at $15 as a standalone streamer. Folks will gladly pay an extra dollar to have the service integrated into their cable box and on the same cable bill.)


When it comes to Comcast what they are doing is actively promoting their own channels over their competitors. The removal of Cinemax from their bundles is part of a larger effort on Comcast reshuffling a bunch of non-NBCUniversal channels to alternate packages or tiers without lowering the base package price and increase ARPU.

For example Comcast's Hitz is what replaced AT&T's Cinemax both are focused on uncut, commercial free movies and they both cost $12/mo from Xfinity. By removing AT&T's more popular Cinemax from certain higher tier packages and replacing it with Hitz they effectively expand the distribution of their own service while cutting down a competitor. They also keep more of the money from that package than having to pay a competitor for a similar service. For those that want Cinemax but never wanted Hitz those customers now have to shell out an additional $12/mo to Xfinity which increases their ARPU.

This isn't the first time Comcast has done something like this. Previously they completely dropped WEtv, Investigation Discovery, Up TV and WGN America as well. Keep in mind WEtv targets the female demographic while Investigation Discovery focuses on crime. Comcast owns two channels that handle these demographics well with Bravo & Oxygen. WGN America is mostly reruns and competes with Comcast's own USA Network when it isn't showing first run content.

Also in regards to Up TV by dropping it from their packages they save bandwidth on linear channels and can push its viewers to subscribe to the SVOD service Up Faith & Family for $4.99/mo more (again increasing ARPU by keeping base packages at the same price while getting customers paying for a new service.)

By the end of the year (unless a new agreement is reached) Xfinity is also dropping Starz & Starz Encore from its lineup completely and have replaced them with the lower cost Epix service in its higher tier packages. However, again, the package price remains the same. By replacing Starz/Starz Encore with Epix which offers less multiplex channels thus costing less Comcast is again increasing its ARPU here. They also pissed off some of their own customers by moving AT&T's own TCM from its basic package to a $10/mo sports package (another way to increase ARPU).

Charter needs to increase its ARPU in general and needed to do something so they removed Cinemax from Silver and Gold packages and Epix from the Gold package while keeping the price the same. Customers who want to maintain the same amount of channels now need to pay $10 to $16 more per month to Spectrum. Also in that article linked Spectrum's initial plan was to strip Gold of all its premiums except for HBO, Showtime and TMC but they reversed that decision and kept Starz & Starz Encore as part of the bundle.

So the TL;DR when providers like Comcast, Charter, Verizon, etc. drop a service like Cinemax from a package but keep the package price the same they are increasing their ARPU. That ARPU is further increased when those same customers subscribe to Cinemax a la carte via the provider that just dropped it from a bundle. Comcast has more incentive since they and AT&T are the only big MVPDs that also own valuable channels via NBCUniversal & WarnerMedia respectively.

The recent drops of Cinemax from higher end packages by other providers have nothing to do with *HBO Max* but increasing their ARPU.

The only provider to drop Cinemax (and HBO) from their high end package and reduce the price was Dish.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> I'm talking about whatever streaming AT&T ends up offering ... regardless of branding.
> 
> There is no such thing as "exclusive" via broadband. The only way AT&T can force broadband customers to buy AT&T TV is if they don't sell broadband separately. That would not go over well. I don't believe AT&T is willing to sacrifice their broadband customers to boost their TV subscription numbers.


What I meant when I said that AT&T TV will be the "exclusive MVPD option sold to AT&T broadband customers" is that it will be the only cable TV service that *AT&T* actively sells to their own broadband customers. I thought that was clear but I guess not. Sure, AT&T broadband customers will have the option to buy an MVPD service from another company, including vMVPDs that stream over their AT&T broadband connection, such as YouTube TV. Point is, once AT&T TV launches, AT&T will no longer sell Uverse TV at all. And while they will still sell DirecTV, they won't actively try to bundle it with AT&T broadband, the way they do now. (I see TV ads and direct mail ads all the time for "AT&T Fiber + DirecTV".) I question whether they'll even continue to offer any kind of bundling perks for broadband + DirecTV; currently they give a $10/mo bundling discount and, I believe, remove the data cap on broadband plans below 1 Gbps (which typically have a 1 TB cap).



James Long said:


> Apply any brand you want - but I see AT&T moving forward with two main streaming options. One is their MVPD option ... trying to deliver "DIRECTV via streaming", which has proven much harder to do than those pushing the concept made it sound. Years after the merger and there is no "DIRECTV via streaming". Perhaps another thousand word essay will explain the difference between AT&T Now (formerly DIRECTV Now) and AT&T TV? Or just add so much noise that no one, including the author, will know the difference? "Both" are MVPD services - and I don't expect "AT&T TV" to have the magic pill that would have made "AT&T Now" a success.


DirecTV Now/AT&T TV Now has been targeted at budget-sensitive cord-cutters, not at mainstream cable TV subscribers. It's never been bundled with AT&T home broadband. (Don't underestimate the power of AT&T's marketing to push various consumer segments toward or away from various products.) But it's not just a matter of marketing, it's also been about deficiencies in the "Now" product itself. It's never been offered with its own custom-built set-top box/streaming device. It's never offered a capacious, full-featured cloud DVR. It's never carried quite the full suite of channels offered on the traditional DTV and Uverse TV platforms. And, from a technical/performance perspective, it's just never been ready for primetime as an equally reliable substitute for traditional cable TV.

I believe AT&T TV will resolve all those shortcoming, except perhaps the technical bugs that have deviled DirecTV Now to varying degrees for years now. We'll have to wait and see on that point. Bottom line is that, once AT&T rolls it out and begins advertising and bundling it, AT&T TV's nationwide subscriber count will quickly surpass where AT&T TV Now currently stands.

I suspect that when the dust settles next year, there won't be much to differentiate AT&T TV and AT&T TV Now except that the former will require an up-front contract while the latter will not, and the former will offer a free streaming box and a $10/mo bundling discount for AT&T broadband customers while the latter won't offer either.



James Long said:


> The second streaming option will be AT&T's content - not an MVPD option, but their own channel and content similar to other providers that sell their own created or licensed content via streaming. That will be the forthcoming "HBO Max" offering.


Yes.



James Long said:


> Separate from their direct to customer sales (the MVPD and the stream their own content services) AT&T will continue to sell their content via other MVPDs. I expect subscribers will get more for their money if they are paying AT&T directly than if they are paying through an MVPD. But that also annoys their MVPD partners. Especially when the subscribers can go around the MVPD subscription and get the same or more content without the MVPD getting their cut.


That's what so cunning about AT&T's decision to price HBO Max, which has over twice the content of HBO (including ALL of HBO), at just $15, the same price as HBO, if you buy it directly from them as a standalone streaming service. It totally boxes in their MVPD distributors like Comcast and Charter. Those distributors basically have 3 choices:


Renegotiate their current distribution deal with AT&T to sell HBO Max instead of regular HBO. But if they do this, AT&T is going to drive a harder bargain and insist on giving the distributor a smaller cut. HBO typically sells a la carte from MVPD distributors (and as a streaming standalone) at $15/mo. But it's also included in some MVPD bundles (e.g. Charter's Silver and Gold packages, Comcast's Digital Premier), and some MVPDs give it away for limited periods as a promo, etc. Let's say that the average price that MVPD subscribers pay for HBO is $13/mo. The only figure I've seen from an industry analyst says that the average wholesale price that MVPDs pay for HBO is only about $7.65/mo per sub. That would leave them with about $5.35/mo, a 41% cut of $13! That's a lot. My guess is that AT&T will try to get a wholesale price for HBO Max closer to $11/mo, which is probably around what they get for a combo of HBO+Cinemax from those MVPDs who sell that pair as a bundle or part of a package. MVPDs could easily get away with charging $16 for HBO Max a la carte but they probably can't go any higher than that with AT&T selling HBO Max at $15 standalone. Priced at $16 a la carte (with no more discounts or freebies for customers), and with AT&T taking a wholesale price of $11, would give MVPDs a $5 cut, or 31.25%. That's not as good as what they've historically gotten with HBO but, hey, the rise of the internet has made MVPDs less valuable to pay TV distributors (see: Netflix), so it's only fair that their margins get squeezed.
Refuse to renegotiate their current distribution contract for HBO, meaning that they won't offer HBO Max at all, only regular HBO. They'll continue to pay the same wholesale price for it, which we're presuming to be $7.65/mo. Likewise, they'll continue to sell HBO a la carte at their current $15 price and keep regular HBO in all the same bundles where it currently exists. The risk here, of course, is that the MVPD's customers will cancel their HBO subscription through them and go direct to AT&T to get HBO Max as a standalone streaming service for the same $15 price point. If it has over twice the content, including those exclusive new Max Originals, and a spiffy new app, why not make the switch? Only downside would be losing access to HBO on your cable box. Instead, you'd have to switch inputs to an Apple TV, Roku, etc. to launch the HBO Max app.
Refuse to renegotiate their current distribution contract for HBO, meaning that they won't offer HBO Max at all, only regular HBO. But instead of continuing to sell HBO a la carte at $15/mo, reduce the price, perhaps to $12/mo (the same price Comcast charges for Showtime). But assuming a wholesale price of $7.65/mo, that reduces the MVPD's cut to just $4.35 (i.e. 36.25%), which is less money than they might stand to pull in on each subscription to HBO Max if they sold it instead of HBO.



James Long said:


> It has been a full year since HBO played hardball with DISH and lost millions of subscribers. They gained many of them back via HBO Now (including when DISH promoted HBO Now for the Game of Thrones release). Why should a customer with broadband pay a MVPD for HBO when they can get it directly from AT&T|HBO? If AT&T plays hardball with their other MVPD partners they could end up being the exclusive distributor of their own channels. Is that better for AT&T?


Oh sure, it's definitely better for AT&T. Ideally, they would cut out all their middle-men HBO distributors, both MVPDs and digital/app stores (e.g. Apple, Google, Amazon, Roku). When customers subscribe directly from AT&T, they don't have to pay a cut of the price to anyone else. But AT&T knows that lots of customers are ruled by inertia and want to keep getting HBO the way they have it now. And there is definitely a convenience factor in getting all your video through the same cable box/UI and on the same bill. So AT&T wants to keep those critical MPVD relationships intact, at least the big ones like Comcast and Charter. As for digital distributors, it'll be interesting to see what happens there. It wouldn't surprise me if they don't allow sign-ups at all inside the HBO Max app -- which would result in a cut of the ongoing price going to the app store owner/biller. Instead, they may do what Netflix now does: require new sign-ups via their own website, where they do the billing themselves.



James Long said:


> So I expect that when the dust settles there will be "AT&T TV" with different tiers and packages as an MVPD, "HBO Max" with different variations as a "stream your owned content" company, AT&T as a content provider for other MVPDs - and of course the satellite service MVPD.


Yes.



James Long said:


> if AT&T finds the magic pill they have a chance to reverse their decline - worst case scenario they take the logic that is killing DIRECTV Now rebranded as AT&T Now and apply it to their reasonably successful Uverse business and figure out how to lose those 5 million subscribers. Other operators are standing by, ready to serve.


Uverse TV will continue to operate for a long while but they've already stopped selling it in those pilot markets where AT&T TV is being sold. When AT&T TV launches nationwide, it will be impossible to initiate Uverse TV service anywhere. But, as I say, existing Uverse TV subs will be given a long while to voluntarily transition over to AT&T TV.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> So the TL;DR when providers like Comcast, Charter, Verizon, etc. drop a service like Cinemax from a package but keep the package price the same they are increasing their ARPU. That ARPU is further increased when those same customers subscribe to Cinemax a la carte via the provider that just dropped it from a bundle. Comcast has more incentive since they and AT&T are the only big MVPDs that also own valuable channels via NBCUniversal & WarnerMedia respectively.
> 
> The recent drops of Cinemax from higher end packages by other providers have nothing to do with *HBO Max* but increasing their ARPU.


Dropping Cinemax from their bundled packages is about increasing MVPDs' ARPUs but I disagree that it has nothing to do with HBO Max. It's a pretty strange coincidence that the two largest cable operators in the US both decided around the same time to drop Cinemax from all their bundles. Those guys aren't stupid and I'm sure that they were privvy to at least as much inside info about HBO Max as the Wall Street Journal, which reported back in the summer that HBO Max would include the content of both HBO and Cinemax. (And frankly, AT&T is almost advertising that idea by naming the service HBO Max, given that "Max" has always been the shortened name for Cinemax.)

A similar thing might be at play in Comcast's decision to push TCM out to an add-on tier, given that HBO Max's film library will include a lot of the same classic movies that air on TCM: HBO Max Will Host a Collection of Classic Movies Curated by TCM

Cinemax's subscriber numbers must be WAY down at this point. Completely dropped by DISH a year ago, and dropped from all bundles from Comcast and Charter. Cinemax offers far less original content than Showtime or Starz, despite generally being sold a la carte at about the same price, and it offers the same movie library as HBO, so doesn't add much when combined with it.

I still think AT&T's plan is to kill Cinemax next year, putting all their focus on HBO Max. Killing Cinemax would also add pressure on MVPDs to agree to switch over from selling HBO to the new HBO Max.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Dropping Cinemax from their bundled packages is about increasing MVPDs' ARPUs but I disagree that it has nothing to do with HBO Max. It's a pretty strange coincidence that the two largest cable operators in the US both decided around the same time to drop Cinemax from all their bundles. Those guys aren't stupid and I'm sure that they were privvy to at least as much inside info about HBO Max as the Wall Street Journal, which reported back in the summer that HBO Max would include the content of both HBO and Cinemax. (And frankly, AT&T is almost advertising that idea by naming the service HBO Max, given that "Max" has always been the shortened name for Cinemax.)
> 
> A similar thing might be at play in Comcast's decision to push TCM out to an add-on tier, given that HBO Max's film library will include a lot of the same classic movies that air on TCM: HBO Max Will Host a Collection of Classic Movies Curated by TCM
> 
> Cinemax's subscriber numbers must be WAY down at this point. Completely dropped by DISH a year ago, and dropped from all bundles from Comcast and Charter. Cinemax offers far less original content than Showtime or Starz, despite generally being sold a la carte at about the same price, and it offers the same movie library as HBO, so doesn't add much when combined with it.


Had Comcast been targeting only WarnerMedia channels and had TCM been moved after the HBO Max announcement I would be more inclined to agree with you on that. However Comcast and Charter has targeted non-WarnerMedia channels as well.

Like I mentioned with Comcast Oxygen (owned by their NBCUniversal division) was relaunched in 2017 under a true crime format. Investigation Discovery has been broadcasting in this format since 2008 and became the highest rated cable network among women aged 25-54 in 2016. Oxygen throughout its existence has targeted women. They eventually stopped offering WeTV and Investigation Discovery which both compete with Oxygen to new Xfinity customers. They no longer offer Up TV and WGN America new subscribers as well. Charter also dropped Epix from its Gold package at the same time it stripped Cinemax from Silver & Gold.

In fact Comcast's latest move with Starz has surprisingly got the DOJ looking into them for potential abuse of their market power. Not to mention their own customers are not happy with the TCM move as well. They actually have gotten so many complaints on their own forum they locked the thread about it. To be transparent this isn't the first time Comcast has done this. TCM used to be in their basic tier before they moved it to the Digital Preferred Tier in 2012 which it stayed until now.

Also if you go to Zap2It and put in a Comcast zip code to see what shows on the 3 linear Hitz channels most would agree it isn't a suitable replacement for Cinemax even with HBO Max launching in May. Most of the movies are from 2006 and before and most are from (you can probably guess) Universal Pictures. You will find the occasional film from Sony Pictures, MGM (post 1986) and Hallmark scattered throughout the schedule.

Movies repeat at a more frequent rate throughout the day than they ever did on any Cinemax channel. The movies from Sony & MGM are the same ones that are shared with their respective OTA diginets (and other syndication packages) and you can even find some of them on free streaming services like IMBDtv, Vudu (with ads), tubi TV, etc. Hell few of those MGM movies are shared with MGM HD. Although... Comcast subs can't watch MGM HD as it was dropped back in February. 



NashGuy said:


> I still think AT&T's plan is to kill Cinemax next year, putting all their focus on HBO Max. Killing Cinemax would also add pressure on MVPDs to agree to switch over from selling HBO to the new HBO Max.


The value proposition alone of having the entire HBO service plus the HBO Max originals, curated Turner Network content, exclusive Studio Ghibli movie collection, Crunchyroll/Rooster Teeth content will be enough to push Comcast and other distributors both in the pay-TV sphere and online like Apple, Amazon, Hulu, etc. to include HBO Max in their existing HBO subscriptions.

They would be foolish not to and let AT&T be the only company that does. That's a powerhouse of content people would pay for. They would have a lot of subs cancelling their Comcast-HBO subscriptions just to get standalone HBO Max subscriptions if they didn't work with AT&T.

Customers would also be more inclined to stay with AT&T's video services after the launch of HBO Max if they used that service knowing they would get all the linear HBO channels plus HBO Max with say DirecTV or U-Verse TV but not with Xfinity.

Also I predict HBO Now would be the first to go before Cinemax is even touched. Why kill the service that can stand on its own for a while when you can kill the one that is made 100% redundant by HBO Max.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> They would be foolish not to and let AT&T be the only company that does. That's a powerhouse of content people would pay for. They would have a lot of subs cancelling their Comcast-HBO subscriptions just to get standalone HBO Max subscriptions if they didn't work with AT&T.


They can use the download cap and say with cable HBO your hbo tv does not count as part of your cap. But HBO MAX non tv will.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> Also if you go to Zap2It and put in a Comcast zip code to see what shows on the 3 linear Hitz channels most would agree it isn't a suitable replacement for Cinemax even with HBO Max launching in May. Most of the movies are from 2006 and before and most are from (you can probably guess) Universal Pictures. You will find the occasional film from Sony Pictures, MGM (post 1986) and Hallmark scattered throughout the schedule.
> 
> Movies repeat at a more frequent rate throughout the day than they ever did on any Cinemax channel. The movies from Sony & MGM are the same ones that are shared with their respective OTA diginets (and other syndication packages) and you can even find some of them on free streaming services like IMBDtv, Vudu (with ads), tubi TV, etc. Hell few of those MGM movies are shared with MGM HD. Although... Comcast subs can't watch MGM HD as it was dropped back in February.


Hmm. I didn't think that Hitz actually had any linear channels. I've only ever understood it to be an on-demand movie library. Seems like I may have read a report from a Comcast subscriber who said that, although Hitz appears in the program grid guide, clicking on it there only takes you to the Hitz on-demand page in the X1 UI. I don't think Comcast actually runs Hitz linear channels, although maybe I'm wrong about that.



techguy88 said:


> The value proposition alone of having the entire HBO service plus the HBO Max originals, curated Turner Network content, exclusive Studio Ghibli movie collection, Crunchyroll/Rooster Teeth content will be enough to push Comcast and other distributors both in the pay-TV sphere and online like Apple, Amazon, Hulu, etc. to include HBO Max in their existing HBO subscriptions.
> 
> They would be foolish not to and let AT&T be the only company that does. That's a powerhouse of content people would pay for. They would have a lot of subs cancelling their Comcast-HBO subscriptions just to get standalone HBO Max subscriptions if they didn't work with AT&T.


Right. So surely AT&T is smart enough to realize that. Which means that surely they're going to demand a higher wholesale price from Comcast, etc. for HBO Max than they historically have for HBO. If they're pouring lots of additional money into creating Max Originals that will be exclusive to HBO Max, why wouldn't they want to make more money on it than they do on regular HBO? That's why I think Comcast and other distributors will be faced with whether to stick with their current HBO distribution contract (i.e. sell HBO, and pay their current wholesale price for it) or renegotiate the contract to instead sell HBO Max, paying a higher wholesale price for it.



techguy88 said:


> Also I predict HBO Now would be the first to go before Cinemax is even touched. Why kill the service that can stand on its own for a while when you can kill the one that is made 100% redundant by HBO Max.


Yeah, there would seem to be no point in keeping HBO Now around once HBO Max launches. Unless AT&T plans to ask for more favorable distribution terms for HBO Max than they currently have for HBO Now among the app stores operated by Apple, Google, Amazon and Roku. Note that if you get HBO Now directly from them, with HBO Now (AT&T) doing the billing, they say you'll automatically be upgraded to HBO Max. But for those who are billed by an app store, well, the situation is TBD. I'm wondering if AT&T might even decide not to allow sign-ups inside the HBO Max app at all (i.e. the same thing Netflix now does), requiring folks to sign up on their website in order to avoid sharing any of the revenue with app store distributors. So I can imagine a scenario in which the HBO Now app no longer allows new sign-ups (those are reserved for HBO Max) but they continue to operate the HBO Now app/service for several more months in order to give those subscribers time to cancel and self-migrate over to HBO Max as they realize that it offers lots more content for the same price.

As for why they might kill Cinemax, it could be part of AT&T's plans to pressure MVPDs to renegotiate their contracts and distribute HBO Max instead of HBO. "Look, we're going to kill Cinemax, so the revenue you get from distributing that service is going away. And we're moving all the Cinemax Originals over to HBO Max, which will be their exclusive home going forward. So if your current Cinemax subscribers decide that they still want to watch Warrior, Jett, Strike Back, etc., then they'll need HBO Max for that."


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Updated the first post about AT&T Unlimited Elite. Currently this plan includes HBO but AT&T has confirmed when HBO Max launches subscribers of this plan will get HBO Max at no extra charge. HBO benefit redeemed through att.com/myatt and uses AT&T Watch TV as the provider when signing in on HBO GO. (Note: Unlimited Elite doesn't include the base Watch TV service of 30+ channels. If you want those channels through Watch TV that is $15/mo.)

From AT&T's FAQ about their new Unlimited Plans 


> After you complete your AT&T Unlimited Elite purchase, follow the instructions below to sign up and begin streaming:
> 
> 1. Log into your wireless account at www.att.com/myatt with your AT&T User ID and password or create an AT&T User ID by entering a valid email address and password.
> 2. Accept the Terms and Privacy Policy for WatchTV.
> ...


AT&T updates unlimited plans, top tier sports 5G-ready data cap



> Unlimited Elite costs as low as $50 per month per line for four lines ($85/month single line) and includes 30GB of mobile hotspot data per line, HD streaming and HBO. When HBO Max debuts in May 2020, subscribers will get access to the $14.99 per month streaming service at no extra charge. The data cap on this plan is 100GB before consumers are throttled.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Related thread: Future of Audience Network?

Some recent information from HBO Max execs from the TCA Tour about several key topics regarding HBO Max including some things of interest that we've been discussing.

Full article: HBO Max Execs Talk Fate of 'Friends' Reunion, Missing 'Harry Potter' Library

*Harry Potter's absent on HBO Max*


> That's because in 2016, Warner Bros. struck an expansive deal with NBCUniversal that gave the broadcaster TV and digital rights to the films ... Quigley confirmed Wednesday that NBCU still holds those digital rights, preventing HBO Max from streaming the films...


*Note:* NBCUniversal has the broadcast, cable and digital rights to _Harry Potter_ and _Fantastic Beasts_ until April 2025. (Unless AT&T decides to pull a Disney and buy the digital rights back before then like Disney did with Star Wars.)

*DC Universe & Boomerang subscription services*


> Subscription streaming platform DC Universe already has one original, _Doom Patrol_, that is earmarked to air concurrently on both the fan-focused platform and HBO Max. As for the rest of the originals - including _Titans_ and the animated series _Harley Quinn_ - Reilly said he'd like for both services to work in tandem. ... One option is for DCU originals to air a day early on that platform before dropping on HBO Max. "We have to figure out those two subscriptions, and we haven't worked out the mechanics of what that's going to look like," he continued. Meanwhile, Quigley said that Boomerang will continue to be a stand-alone offering, though some of that animation library will be included in the HBO Max lineup.


*Audience Network*


> WarnerMedia execs are still determining the fate of series like _Mr. Mercedes_ and _Loudermilk_ after Audience Network revealed last week that its future as a home for original content was over. "That's being sorted out right now," Reilly said. "They had some good shows there. We'll see what happens once they get through that process." Sources say at least three of the originals could make the move to HBO Max. Meanwhile, the network will drop its name and become a preview channel for the streamer.


*Cinemax*


> At Cinemax, Reilly confirmed that original programming production will wind down. It's unclear what that means for shows like _Jett_ and _Warrior_, with execs saying they don't expect to bring Cinemax content overall into HBO Max.


This doesn't look too good for Cinemax Originals sounds like it may go back to being a movie focused service. Also explains why we didn't see a "Cinemax" hub icon during the WarnerMedia investor day event when they showed off the HBO Max app. Glad they aren't ditching DC Universe tho.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> Related thread: Future of Audience Network?
> 
> Some recent information from HBO Max execs from the TCA Tour about several key topics regarding HBO Max including some things of interest that we've been discussing.
> 
> ...


So Audience Network will probably mainly air the first episode of new seasons of HBO Originals and Max Originals from HBO Max, and perhaps select special live content, like the upcoming AT&T TV Super Saturday concert. Beyond that, maybe free screenings of past seasons of HBO Originals and Max Originals so that folks can catch up and be enticed to subscribe to HBO Max when the new season drops. Maybe a few free movies here and there. And lots and lots of previews/ads for stuff on HBO Max.

As for Cinemax, this is probably the beginning of the end for it. They'll burn off this last 4-episode season of C.B. Strike that they co-produced with the BBC. I think maybe that'll air in Feb. Only other thing I'm aware of that Cinemax has done for future originals is season 2 of Warrior. They'll either air that this spring/summer and then kill the series or move it over to HBO Max as a Max Original (as they're doing with TBS's Search Party and some other stuff). No more Cinemax Originals beyond that. Maybe Cinemax continues on for a few years as a channel no one realizes still exists (much like The Movie Channel, which is owned by Showtime). But I can't see it surviving as a movies-only a la carte premium channel. Just not worth $10-12 for that given all the other options consumers have now.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> So Audience Network will probably mainly air the first episode of new seasons of HBO Originals and Max Originals from HBO Max, and perhaps select special live content, like the upcoming AT&T TV Super Saturday concert. Beyond that, maybe free screenings of past seasons of HBO Originals and Max Originals so that folks can catch up and be enticed to subscribe to HBO Max when the new season drops. Maybe a few free movies here and there. And lots and lots of previews/ads for stuff on HBO Max.


That sounds like a permanent "HBO free preview weekend"...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HBO sampler ... first episodes, similar to how Star Trek Discovery was broadcast to promote CBS's streaming product. Second episode not on the sampler channel (unless they need to further promote a series).


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> That sounds like a permanent "HBO free preview weekend"...


Yeah, except I imagine that only very select samples of full episodes will be aired at strategic times coinciding with the debut of new seasons on HBO Max. Sounds like it will really only exist to get those DirecTV subscribers who don't already have HBO Max to sign up for it. I imagine a lot of folks would just hide it on their channel guide.

I still think that the most likely scenario we'll see this year is that HBO Max becomes a non-optional part of all channel packages on AT&T TV and probably DirecTV too. So all new AT&T cable TV subscribers going forward would have it. They don't offer a single package without their own CNN, TBS, TNT, and Cartoon Network. I don't know why they'll treat HBO Max any differently if they really do view it as the cornerstone of their entertainment strategy, just as Comcast won't offer cable TV service without Peacock and Hulu doesn't offer live TV service without the core Hulu on-demand component. (Although I can see them downgrading the bundled-in version of HBO Max to the cheaper version with ads when that becomes available in 2021. Those who want all the ads removed will have to pay the upgrade fee. Maybe that's what happens in lieu of an annual price hike in 2021 for AT&T TV subs.)

At any rate, regardless of what happens with new subscribers, they'll still want to sell HBO Max to the millions of existing DirecTV customers on current packages that don't include HBO. Hence the HBO Max Preview Channel.

I wonder whether we'll see the HBO Max app get added to any of the current DirecTV Genie receivers. Are they capable of smoothly running the kind of graphics-intensive apps that HBO Max looks like it will be? It's been years now since I had DirecTV and used an HR44. I guess if ESPN was able to get an app running for all the various model receivers, AT&T should be able to make something functional for HBO Max, even if it's not as slick as the version that will roll out for Apple TV, etc.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, except I imagine that only very select samples of full episodes will be aired at strategic times coinciding with the debut of new seasons on HBO Max. Sounds like it will really only exist to get those DirecTV subscribers who don't already have HBO Max to sign up for it. I imagine a lot of folks would just hide it on their channel guide.
> 
> I still think that the most likely scenario we'll see this year is that HBO Max becomes a non-optional part of all channel packages on AT&T TV and probably DirecTV too. So all new AT&T cable TV subscribers going forward would have it. They don't offer a single package without their own CNN, TBS, TNT, and Cartoon Network. I don't know why they'll treat HBO Max any differently if they really do view it as the cornerstone of their entertainment strategy, just as Comcast won't offer cable TV service without Peacock and Hulu doesn't offer live TV service without the core Hulu on-demand component. (Although I can see them downgrading the bundled-in version of HBO Max to the cheaper version with ads when that becomes available in 2021. Those who want all the ads removed will have to pay the upgrade fee. Maybe that's what happens in lieu of an annual price hike in 2021 for AT&T TV subs.)
> 
> ...


Well the ESPN app is not very intensive and follows the bare bones/minimalist approach used for Music Choice and iHeartRadio. I don't think the Genies and clients are able to handle a HBO Max app that can do what AT&T wants. The co-viewing experience with at least 2 profiles was detailed and sounds like a big feature they will push.

Another big key thing that would stop AT&T making a Genie compatible version of the HBO Max app is parental controls. For example I have anything rated TV-MA/R and above blocked on my receivers as I have nephews that come over on occasion that are not old enough to view that content. I still have to watch my nephews when they are using my DirecTV because the Genie receivers and clients can't enforce parental controls in apps. So all the TV-MA rated satellite delivered Music Choice channels are blocked but via the Music Choice app they can essentially bypass my parental controls and listen to those uncensored channels.

So if the Genie can't support basic features of a premium SVOD service (multiple profiles, pausing on one device like an iPad and resuming on another like the Genie and parental controls) then AT&T most likely won't create an inferior app just to have HBO Max on the Genie. The AT&T TV device on the other hand is perfectly capable to run the HBO Max app without compromise.

I also don't think they will go that far to add HBO/HBO Max to all base packages for AT&T TV/DirecTV. During their investor day press conference and the FAQ they stressed "premium TV, Internet and Wireless packages and bundles" a lot. AT&T Thanks defines a premium DirecTV/U-Verse TV package as having 240+ channels which would include Ultimate and U300/300LA.

In the case of DirecTV/AT&T TV I could see them adding HBO to Ultimate. After the drop of El Rey the only channels that require Ultimate would be the StarzEncore multiplex, The Movie Channel multiplex, TUDN and Cowboy Channel. Adding HBO at this point shouldn't be a big deal or increase the package price by a huge margin (one would think.)

For U-Verse TV personally I can see them removing either Showtime/TMC/Flix multiplex or Starz/StarzEncore multiplexes from U300/300LA and/or U-Verse The Movie Package ($20/mo) and replace them with HBO/Cinemax multiplexes.

Now I could see AT&T doing something like bringing back the new customer free HBO for 12 months w/HBO Max included when HBO Max launches for customers who sign up for the lower end packages like Select/Entertainment through Xtra. I could also see a similar (either 6 or 12 month) HBO w/HBO Max loyalty offer begin to appear at the same time to get existing subs on similar packages to try HBO Max. That seems more like a thing AT&T would do.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> Well the ESPN app is not very intensive and follows the bare bones/minimalist approach used for Music Choice and iHeartRadio. I don't think the Genies and clients are able to handle a HBO Max app that can do what AT&T wants. The co-viewing experience with at least 2 profiles was detailed and sounds like a big feature they will push.
> 
> Another big key thing that would stop AT&T making a Genie compatible version of the HBO Max app is parental controls. For example I have anything rated TV-MA/R and above blocked on my receivers as I have nephews that come over on occasion that are not old enough to view that content. I still have to watch my nephews when they are using my DirecTV because the Genie receivers and clients can't enforce parental controls in apps. So all the TV-MA rated satellite delivered Music Choice channels are blocked but via the Music Choice app they can essentially bypass my parental controls and listen to those uncensored channels.
> 
> So if the Genie can't support basic features of a premium SVOD service (multiple profiles, pausing on one device like an iPad and resuming on another like the Genie and parental controls) then AT&T most likely won't create an inferior app just to have HBO Max on the Genie. The AT&T TV device on the other hand is perfectly capable to run the HBO Max app without compromise.


Yeah, this makes sense and jibes with what I remember about the lowly app/processing capabilities of my old HR44 Genie. Still though, it's strange to think that AT&T will be launching this very, very important service, HBO Max, with no way to deliver it to the ~17 million installed user base of their main cable TV platform, DirecTV.

Although if a DirecTV customer has home broadband, then he/she is eligible to switch over to AT&T TV with its app-rich box that will surely feature HBO Max. I imagine that's what AT&T would like to see happen.



techguy88 said:


> I also don't think they will go that far to add HBO/HBO Max to all base packages for AT&T TV/DirecTV. During their investor day press conference and the FAQ they stressed "premium TV, Internet and Wireless packages and bundles" a lot. AT&T Thanks defines a premium DirecTV/U-Verse TV package as having 240+ channels which would include Ultimate and U300/300LA.


Well, AT&T has begun referring to DirecTV, Uverse TV and AT&T TV as their "premium" TV services/platforms, differentiating them from AT&T TV Now. The past couple of quarters on their earnings calls, they've begun giving a total count of "premium TV subscribers," meaning the sum of all subs on their big 3 services. So I wouldn't necessarily interpret their remarks to mean that they only plan to bundle HBO Max in with the most expensive TV packages (although it's certainly possible that they will).

I still believe that the Plus and Max packages that they rolled out last spring point in the direction they want to take system-wide, which is to have a simpler line-up of channel packages, all of which include HBO Max. If they really believe in HBO Max, and want to maximize their ownership economics, why wouldn't they insist that it be part of every channel package they sell? I think they would see the inclusion of HBO Max "at no extra cost" as an important brand differentiator for AT&T TV versus the cable services from Comcast, Charter, etc. And remember, HBO Max is not being positioned in the market as an elite service, the way that HBO always has been. It's being marketed as a mainstream "quality TV for everyone" service to compete head-on against Netflix.



techguy88 said:


> In the case of DirecTV/AT&T TV I could see them adding HBO to Ultimate. After the drop of El Rey the only channels that require Ultimate would be the StarzEncore multiplex, The Movie Channel multiplex, TUDN and Cowboy Channel. Adding HBO at this point shouldn't be a big deal or increase the package price by a huge margin (one would think.)
> 
> For U-Verse TV personally I can see them removing either Showtime/TMC/Flix multiplex or Starz/StarzEncore multiplexes from U300/300LA and/or U-Verse The Movie Package ($20/mo) and replace them with HBO/Cinemax multiplexes.
> 
> Now I could see AT&T doing something like bringing back the new customer free HBO for 12 months w/HBO Max included when HBO Max launches for customers who sign up for the lower end packages like Select/Entertainment through Xtra. I could also see a similar (either 6 or 12 month) HBO w/HBO Max loyalty offer begin to appear at the same time to get existing subs on similar packages to try HBO Max. That seems more like a thing AT&T would do.


For all those customers grandfathered in on existing packages on DirecTV and Uverse TV, I think HBO Max will be treated the same as HBO. If HBO was part of your package, now HBO Max is. If you got HBO as an a la cart add-on, now you get HBO Max instead.

The question is whether they're going to shake things up with a new channel package system for new subs. Repeated remarks from the CEO have hinted at that over the past couple years. We'll see in time...


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, this makes sense and jibes with what I remember about the lowly app/processing capabilities of my old HR44 Genie. Still though, *it's strange to think that AT&T will be launching this very, very important service, HBO Max, with no way to deliver it to the ~17 million installed user base of their main cable TV platform, DirecTV.*


Couldn't they provide it the same way you can watch content on a streaming app that you have access to through DirecTV by verifying with your DirecTV credentials?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

b4pjoe said:


> Couldn't they provide it the same way you can watch content on a streaming app that you have access to through DirecTV by verifying with your DirecTV credentials?


Actually that's exactly how this is working. If you are an existing AT&T-HBO subscriber through one of their many video services (DirecTV, U-Verse TV, AT&T TV, AT&T TV Now and Watch TV) you will sign in to the HBO Max app with your existing credentials and begin watching. Simples. DirecTV was used as the example during WarnerMedia Day and U-verse TV/AT&T TV are used in the HBO Max FAQ.

In addition to AT&T-HBO subscribers they want to do the same to non-AT&T MVPD/vMVPDs HBO subs.

Here is the retaliative bit from WarnerMedia Day (starts at 1:09:50 in)

Also, if you go forward to the end of the video at 1:26:35 which has the first few questions from the Q&A, Tony Goncalves clarifies (using DirecTV as the example) that DirecTV-HBO subscribers will use their existing credentials to log into the HBO Max app and be able to watch all of its content. They will still have full access to their linear HBO channels on DirecTV with their existing DirecTV-HBO subscription.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

b4pjoe said:


> Couldn't they provide it the same way you can watch content on a streaming app that you have access to through DirecTV by verifying with your DirecTV credentials?





techguy88 said:


> Actually that's exactly how this is working. If you are an existing AT&T-HBO subscriber through one of their many video services (DirecTV, U-Verse TV, AT&T TV, AT&T TV Now and Watch TV) you will sign in to the HBO Max app with your existing credentials and begin watching. Simples. DirecTV was used as the example during WarnerMedia Day and U-verse TV/AT&T TV are used in the HBO Max FAQ.
> 
> In addition to AT&T-HBO subscribers they want to do the same to non-AT&T MVPD/vMVPDs HBO subs.
> 
> ...


Yes, completely agree with what both of you are saying but you're both kinda missing the point that I was raising. I don't at all doubt that DirecTV subscribers who have HBO on their account will be able to use their DirecTV credentials to log into the HBO Max app at no additional charge. What I was saying is that I think it will be odd if that app isn't actually present on the recent-model Genie receivers that DirecTV customers use. If it isn't, then those folks will need to switch inputs away from their Genie over to a Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, etc. in order to use the new HBO Max app. Not the end of the world, of course, but it's not ideal or expected, given that the same company, AT&T, owns both DirecTV and HBO Max.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

I understand where you're coming from @NashGuy but if the recent Genies (the ones with the modern UI) can't run the HBO Max app with the features they are pushing then I don't see them creating an inferior version of the app. Especially if the Genie can't enforce parental controls in the app. The Parents Television Council is already up in arms about Euphoria on HBO imagine their outrage if AT&T adds an HBO Max app to the Genies that have no parental controls and kids can have unrestrained access to that TV-MA show.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> I understand where you're coming from @NashGuy but if the recent Genies (the ones with the modern UI) can't run the HBO Max app with the features they are pushing then I don't see them creating an inferior version of the app. Especially if the Genie can't enforce parental controls in the app. The Parents Television Council is already up in arms about Euphoria on HBO imagine their outrage if AT&T adds an HBO Max app to the Genies that have no parental controls and kids can have unrestrained access to that TV-MA show.


and they can't just add it to the HBO VOD / PUSH VOD in place? KILL MAX and use the slots to show more the content not on main HBO channel.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

NashGuy said:


> Yes, completely agree with what both of you are saying but you're both kinda missing the point that I was raising. I don't at all doubt that DirecTV subscribers who have HBO on their account will be able to use their DirecTV credentials to log into the HBO Max app at no additional charge. What I was saying is that I think it will be odd if that app isn't actually present on the recent-model Genie receivers that DirecTV customers use. If it isn't, then those folks will need to switch inputs away from their Genie over to a Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, etc. in order to use the new HBO Max app. Not the end of the world, of course, but it's not ideal or expected, given that the same company, AT&T, owns both DirecTV and HBO Max.


From what I have seen from the apps they have on the Genie I would rather they not try.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

JoeTheDragon said:


> and they can't just add it to the HBO VOD / PUSH VOD in place? KILL MAX and use the slots to show more the content not on main HBO channel.


Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about AT&T possibly adding the entire HBO Max library to the VOD section on their own receivers for DTV and AT&T TV rather than requiring users launch a separate app. (For that matter, I've wondered the same thing about HBO Max on other MVPDs' receivers, such as Comcast X1, if/when they strike a new carriage deal to get HBO Max on those systems.)

My hunch, though, is that AT&T won't want to do this because they want to build brand awareness of HBO Max as its own separate thing, just as Netflix has done. I guess that's understandable if AT&T really believes that traditional cable TV will fade away this decade and be replaced by a handful of major streaming apps and they want HBO Max to be one of them. If that's their view, it's better to start training consumers right away to launch the HBO Max app, whether that's on AT&T's own hardware or on third-party hardware (e.g. Roku, Apple TV, Comcast X1, etc.).

Way back when AT&T's C71 "Osprey" receiver showed up in the FCC's system -- fall 2017 -- Variety broke the story about it and how it was an Android TV-based streaming device that AT&T would use to deliver cable TV as an OTT service. But a few clues led me to believe that perhaps this device would also be used in conjunction with DTV's satellite service too.

First off, the naming convention: C71 suggests that it's the next-gen version of the current C61 Genie Mini. DTV typically adds 10 to the model number for each successive generation in a hardware line.

Also, the first draft of the user manual that was filed with the FCC for the C71 said that its remote control might also be used in conjunction with future AT&T hardware including the "HS27". What's an HS27? AT&T has never released a device with that model number but the name strongly suggests it would be the next-gen version of the current HS17, the Genie 2 whole-home server that works in conjunction with Genie Mini C61 clients.

Lastly, AT&T's CEO publicly stated a long while back that the new UI that debuted in the 2.0 version of the DirecTV Now app in spring 2018 would also be used with the future AT&T TV service (on the C71) and would eventually spread to the DTV satellite service too. I doubt any of the current Genie receivers (HR54, HR44, C61) are capable of smoothly running that new UI (or that AT&T would want to spend the resources trying). If that UI does make it to the satellite service, I think it will be because the same C71 that gets deployed for AT&T TV also shows up as the new standard receiver for DTV, where it would be installed in conjunction with either the current HS17 or perhaps a next-gen HS27 server ("Genie 3").

So maybe AT&T solves the issue of no HBO Max app on their DTV hardware by using the C71 on all (or most) new DTV installations and also offering it as an replacement option for current DTV customers with C61s. I still think it's likely that DTV, like AT&T TV, will switch to a new line-up of channel packages (Plus, Max, etc.) for all new sign-ups, all of which include HBO Max. Using the C71, which will of course feature the HBO Max app, for both AT&T TV and DTV would ensure that all those new customers paying for HBO Max could easily access it (as long as they have home internet, that is).


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about AT&T possibly adding the entire HBO Max library to the VOD section on their own receivers for DTV and AT&T TV rather than requiring users launch a separate app. (For that matter, I've wondered the same thing about HBO Max on other MVPDs' receivers, such as Comcast X1, if/when they strike a new carriage deal to get HBO Max on those systems.)
> 
> My hunch, though, is that AT&T won't want to do this because they want to build brand awareness of HBO Max as its own separate thing, just as Netflix has done. I guess that's understandable if AT&T really believes that traditional cable TV will fade away this decade and be replaced by a handful of major streaming apps and they want HBO Max to be one of them. If that's their view, it's better to start training consumers right away to launch the HBO Max app, whether that's on AT&T's own hardware or on third-party hardware (e.g. Roku, Apple TV, Comcast X1, etc.).
> 
> ...


Few things your missing here as a non directv subscriber

All clients from the C31 to the 61 work with the Genie 2. You don't need a 61. Also the current Genie GUI is with the exception of some small layout items the same one used by ATT TV Now. That GUI spread has already happened... Until there is some sprinkle of a C71 with a coax port it is safe to say the original plan of working with a HS27 and Sat service has changed and it is what it is now

Also From a hardware perspective the C61k and C61W from Arris use a newer/faster CPU and more ram then the basic Genie Clients. Based on how Directv uses there GUI(which most is driven off Genie) there would be no reason the Genie 2 and a C61k model line could not handle more tasks


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

compnurd said:


> Few things your missing here as a non directv subscriber
> 
> All clients from the C31 to the 61 work with the Genie 2. You don't need a 61. Also the current Genie GUI is with the exception of some small layout items the same one used by ATT TV Now. That GUI spread has already happened... Until there is some sprinkle of a C71 with a coax port it is safe to say the original plan of working with a HS27 and Sat service has changed and it is what it is now
> 
> Also From a hardware perspective the C61k and C61W from Arris use a newer/faster CPU and more ram then the basic Genie Clients. Based on how Directv uses there GUI(which most is driven off Genie) there would be no reason the Genie 2 and a C61k model line could not handle more tasks


Not to mention they GUI is the same for HR44 - HS17. The only reason the HR34 is on the legacy GUI is it can't handle the new GUI and even on legacy GUI its slowwwwww and showing its age. Plus it didn't have the CCK-W built in and couldn't do mobile DVR at all.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> Not to mention they GUI is the same for HR44 - HS17. The only reason the HR34 is on the legacy GUI is it can't handle the new GUI and even on legacy GUI its slowwwwww and showing its age. Plus it didn't have the CCK-W built in and couldn't do mobile DVR at all.


Don't forget the C71k runs on the Android TV Operators Tier.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

compnurd said:


> Few things your missing here as a non directv subscriber
> 
> All clients from the C31 to the 61 work with the Genie 2. You don't need a 61. Also the current Genie GUI is with the exception of some small layout items the same one used by ATT TV Now. That GUI spread has already happened... Until there is some sprinkle of a C71 with a coax port it is safe to say the original plan of working with a HS27 and Sat service has changed and it is what it is now
> 
> Also From a hardware perspective the C61k and C61W from Arris use a newer/faster CPU and more ram then the basic Genie Clients. Based on how Directv uses there GUI(which most is driven off Genie) there would be no reason the Genie 2 and a C61k model line could not handle more tasks


While I'm a little more skeptical about the C71 line coming to satellite than I was back when it was first discovered (based on seeing no sign of the HS27 or a C71 with coax port) if they do this I think the reason would be to put more horsepower in the client so they can run apps on the client instead of the server.

In that scenario the HS27 would be cheaper to build and have less CPU power and RAM than the HS17, probably back to the HR34 in power because it would need to do very little since the satellite stream handling would be done in dedicated chips like the tuner. If so, the HS27 would only work with the C71 (or newer) clients and not the C61 and older.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> Don't forget the C71k runs on the Android TV Operators Tier.


Completely Irrelevant... It is just hardware.. They could take one and load there current software if they wanted to


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> While I'm a little more skeptical about the C71 line coming to satellite than I was back when it was first discovered (based on seeing no sign of the HS27 or a C71 with coax port) if they do this I think the reason would be to put more horsepower in the client so they can run apps on the client instead of the server.
> 
> In that scenario the HS27 would be cheaper to build and have less CPU power and RAM than the HS17, probably back to the HR34 in power because it would need to do very little since the satellite stream handling would be done in dedicated chips like the tuner. If so, the HS27 would only work with the C71 (or newer) clients and not the C61 and older.


True on all counts.. But like we both stated. There has been no drips or draps of any new Sat Hardware.. Honestly the latest CE Genie software has my HS17 and clients pretty damn snappy


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

compnurd said:


> Completely Irrelevant... It is just hardware.. They could take one and load there current software if they wanted to


Isn't the reason they choose the Android TV Operators Tier is that it make AT&T TV be more like DTV?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> Isn't the reason they choose the Android TV Operators Tier is that it make AT&T TV be more like DTV?


They could run Tivo on the C71 if they wanted to.... Your missing the point here


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

CraigerM said:


> Don't forget the C71k runs on the Android TV Operators Tier.





compnurd said:


> Completely Irrelevant... It is just hardware.. They could take one and load there current software if they wanted to


No that is not irrelevant to the situation at hand. If AT&T were to release a line of C71 minis for DirecTV using Android TV OS and they want these minis to work with the HR44-HS17 hardware then AT&T has to invest in R&D to ensure that the Android TV OS can properly and efficiently communicate with the current proprietary OS on those units. They would also need to update their proprietary OS in the same manner. Also they can't just replace their current proprietary OS with Android TV on the HR44-HS17 depending on the hardware requirements. Older clients (like C31) most likely can't handle Android TV as well.



compnurd said:


> They could run Tivo on the C71 if they wanted to.... Your missing the point here


Yeah they could however if the TiVo software can't speak to, understand and communicate with their proprietary OS used on the HR44-HS17 then it kinda makes it useless.

The regular TiVo's are Linux based and their new TiVo Stream 4K device is running Android TV. Even TiVo has to create an app for Android TV that can communicate with their proprietary Linux based-OS on their traditional DVRs if they want any kind of compatibility between the two types of hardware.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> No that is not irrelevant to the situation at hand. If AT&T were to release a line of C71 minis for DirecTV using Android TV OS and they want these minis to work with the HR44-HS17 hardware then AT&T has to invest in R&D to ensure that the Android TV OS can properly and efficiently communicate with the current proprietary OS on those units. They would also need to update their proprietary OS in the same manner. Also they can't just replace their current proprietary OS with Android TV on the HR44-HS17 depending on the hardware requirements. Older clients (like C31) most likely can't handle Android TV as well.
> 
> Yeah they could however if the TiVo software can't speak to, understand and communicate with their proprietary OS used on the HR44-HS17 then it kinda makes it useless.
> 
> The regular TiVo's are Linux based and their new TiVo Stream 4K device is running Android TV. Even TiVo has to create an app for Android TV that can communicate with their proprietary Linux based-OS on their traditional DVRs if they want any kind of compatibility between the two types of hardware.


Your missing the point also.. The hardware is the hardware.

They can release a C71 that has nothing to do with Android and run there current software


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

compnurd said:


> Your missing the point also.. The hardware is the hardware.
> 
> They can release a C71 that has nothing to do with Android and run there current software


The Android TV Operators Tier also allows AT&T TV to change the OS so it automatically boots into the AT&T TV APP and live TV, that is why they promote their box and makes AT&T TV like DTV. I was thinking could the HS-27 that they were working on ran the Android TV Operators Tier, the AT&T TV APP and that is why they said the C71k could only work with the HS-27? Then they decided to go the cloud DVR instead?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> The Android TV Operators Tier also allows AT&T TV to change the OS so it automatically boots into the AT&T TV APP and live TV, that is why they promote their box and makes AT&T TV like DTV. I was thinking could the HS-27 that they were working on ran the Android TV Operators Tier, the AT&T TV APP and that is why they said the C71k could only work with the HS-27? Then they decided to go the cloud DVR instead?


Oye vey

And to add there was never never never never any confirmation they were working on a HS27


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

compnurd said:


> Oye vey
> 
> And to add there was never never never never any confirmation they were working on a HS27


Scroll down to the overview section.

ATTC71KW Wireless STB User Manual Wistron NeWeb


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> Scroll down to the overview section.
> 
> ATTC71KW Wireless STB User Manual Wistron NeWeb


And for the 45th time that manual DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE. It's from 2017 and the Osprey has clearly changed direction since then


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

compnurd said:


> And for the 45th time that manual DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE. It's from 2017 and the Osprey has clearly changed direction since then


But doesn't that confirm they were working on one but since it's not in the updated manual they changed their mind on the HS-27 and just went with the cloud DVR instead like I said in my previous post?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

CraigerM said:


> But doesn't that confirm they were working on one but since it's not in the updated manual they changed their mind on the HS-27 and just went with the cloud DVR instead like I said in my previous post?


No. It doesn't confirm anything

insert Ice Cream for HS27 and we are at the same place then and now


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> Isn't the reason they choose the Android TV Operators Tier is that it make AT&T TV be more like DTV?


No they chose it because it is cheap. This way all they need to do is basically develop a DTV "app" for it, rather than having to maintain the whole OS and GUI toolkit.


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## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

Curious:

As a current HBO subscriber through DirecTV, why on Earth would my genie ever need an "app" for _anything_ HBO? (Older DVRs too for that matter.)

Is there going to be separate, streaming-only content?

Only things that should need any app would be other devices in or out of the home (internet boxes/mobile devices).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The HBO subscription is more than a handful of linear channels. You would need the app or some other interface to watch HBO's on demand content. HBO GO is the current app for cable/satellite subscribers, with HBO NOW being the standalone streaming product.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Curious:
> 
> As a current HBO subscriber through DirecTV, why on Earth would my genie ever need an "app" for _anything_ HBO? (Older DVRs too for that matter.)
> 
> ...


AT&T will launch in May a new service called HBO Max. It will include everything that HBO has, plus a lot of additional content, including a new line of "Max Originals" that will be exclusive to HBO Max (and not part of regular HBO). HBO Max will debut with over twice as many hours of on-demand content as available through regular HBO. Despite all the additional content, HBO Max will sell as a standalone streaming service for the same $15 price typically charged for HBO.

AT&T has already stated that if you pay them directly for your existing HBO subscription -- whether that's through DirecTV, or Uverse TV, or AT&T TV, or AT&T TV Now, or HBONow.com -- then when HBO Max launches in May, you'll automatically have access to it for no additional charge. Hopefully you'll be able to just enter your existing AT&T user name and password into the new HBO Max app and you're good. But we don't know yet whether that app will be made available for any existing DirecTV receivers. (It will almost certainly be available for Apple TV, Roku, and Fire TV streaming devices, along with iPhone, iPad, and Android mobile devices.)

So while your DirecTV Genie will still offer the same set of HBO channels you get now, and should still offer access to the same HBO on-demand library, if you want access to all the other stuff that HBO Max will offer, you'll probably need to launch the HBO Max app and you may have to switch to a different device other than your Genie to do that.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> While I'm a little more skeptical about the C71 line coming to satellite than I was back when it was first discovered (based on seeing no sign of the HS27 or a C71 with coax port) if they do this I think the reason would be to put more horsepower in the client so they can run apps on the client instead of the server.
> 
> In that scenario the HS27 would be cheaper to build and have less CPU power and RAM than the HS17, probably back to the HR34 in power because it would need to do very little since the satellite stream handling would be done in dedicated chips like the tuner. If so, the HS27 would only work with the C71 (or newer) clients and not the C61 and older.


I imagine it would be easier to make the C71 work with a new HS27 Genie server but isn't it still possible that it could work with the existing HS17 (if it had some kind of software/firmware update)? Doesn't the HS17 have the ability to connect to clients wirelessly (via wifi direct?) and maybe also via ethernet? If so, it seems at least *possible* that the C71 could connect to it without the need for coax/MoCa.

Now, that said, I have no idea how difficult it may be to get the AT&T app for Android TV on the C71 to interface smoothly with whatever software runs on the HS17. But haven't they been doing this already for a few years now with "DirecTV Ready" smart TVs from Sony, Samsung and LG? Don't those TVs work with the HS17 as though they had a built-in Genie Mini? And in the case of those Sony TVs, isn't the DirecTV software client on them probably just an Android TV app given that that's what Sony uses as their smart TV OS?

Of course, whether or not this is possible, there's still the question of whether or not AT&T even *cares* about improving the app platform for DirecTV customers (including the availability of an HBO Max app). Because if a DirecTV customer cares about streaming apps and has the home broadband necessary to use them, then he is capable of switching from DirecTV to AT&T TV. So maybe AT&T figures, hey, if our DTV customers want to access HBO Max, Netflix, YouTube, Disney+, etc. on their main TV box, they can call us or log into their AT&T account and switch themselves over to AT&T TV.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Curious:
> 
> As a current HBO subscriber through DirecTV, why on Earth would my genie ever need an "app" for _anything_ HBO? (Older DVRs too for that matter.)
> 
> ...


Well as an plus for people who don't have good internet or just don't want to change to an different box. They can add content to HBO VOD (push / added channels).

Just think if Comcast where to market with XFINITY you can get all of HBO MAX + your locals and more with just one box vs 2 on Directv


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> I imagine it would be easier to make the C71 work with a new HS27 Genie server but isn't it still possible that it could work with the existing HS17 (if it had some kind of software/firmware update)? Doesn't the HS17 have the ability to connect to clients wirelessly (via wifi direct?) and maybe also via ethernet? If so, it seems at least *possible* that the C71 could connect to it without the need for coax/MoCa.
> 
> Now, that said, I have no idea how difficult it may be to get the AT&T app for Android TV on the C71 to interface smoothly with whatever software runs on the HS17. But haven't they been doing this already for a few years now with "DirecTV Ready" smart TVs from Sony, Samsung and LG? Don't those TVs work with the HS17 as though they had a built-in Genie Mini? And in the case of those Sony TVs, isn't the DirecTV software client on them probably just an Android TV app given that that's what Sony uses as their smart TV OS?
> 
> Of course, whether or not this is possible, there's still the question of whether or not AT&T even *cares* about improving the app platform for DirecTV customers (including the availability of an HBO Max app). Because if a DirecTV customer cares about streaming apps and has the home broadband necessary to use them, then he is capable of switching from DirecTV to AT&T TV. So maybe AT&T figures, hey, if our DTV customers want to access HBO Max, Netflix, YouTube, Disney+, etc. on their main TV box, they can call us or log into their AT&T account and switch themselves over to AT&T TV.


Directv Ready Smart TV's have not been marketed or supported for I believe 2 years now.. If I recall they also pulled there apps from everyones app store. They also worked with the HR44/54 Wasnt inclusive to the HS17


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Just think if Comcast where to market with XFINITY you can get all of HBO MAX + your locals and more with just one box vs 2 on Directv


Comcast has made it very clear that part of their winning strategy with their X1 platform is that it supports many different popular apps. They see that the pay TV landscape has evolved, and will continue to evolve, toward a blend of cable channels and apps. Which is why X1 offers apps for Netflix, YouTube, Prime Video, Tubi, and Pandora. They've announced that they will soon add Hulu and Peacock. I expect they'll announce X1 apps for HBO Max, Disney+, and maybe Apple TV+ too, later this year. (Also, the native X1 UI incorporates the VOD libraries from HBO, Showtime, Starz and Epix without the need to launch an app.)

As viewership among cable TV subscribers becomes increasingly split between linear channels and apps/VOD, successful cable TV operators MUST offer a convenient way for their customers to aggregate and navigate all the different content sources with a single remote control on a single TV input. That's a big part of why AT&T is shifting away from DTV and launching AT&T TV, and also why the marketing materials supporting AT&T TV make such a big deal about the Android TV-based streaming device that comes with the service, touting how it combines a huge VOD library and thousands of apps with live TV and cloud DVR.

As I've posted above, a couple years ago my thinking was that the C71 device that comes with AT&T TV would also be deployed with DirecTV satellite service too, as a next-gen Genie Mini, and this would be a way to deliver all those benefits to satellite customers who have home broadband. But I increasingly doubt that scenario will play out. I think it's more likely that they retain the C71 and its benefits as defining features of their new flagship service, AT&T TV.

I'd say it's likely that we won't see AT&T release any new hardware for DTV ever again (unless something major happens, like a spin-off/merger of DTV with DISH). They'll let DTV stagnate because the plan going forward is to shift an ever-increasing share of the company's cable TV subs over to AT&T TV (and HBO Max once it begins offering in-app add-on channel bundles next year) while DTV and Uverse TV account for a dwindling share. At some point, maybe a couple years down the road, they'll completely pull the plug on Uverse TV. DTV is much larger and there's a certain share of its user base who cannot get pay TV from anything but DBS, given that they don't have broadband access . It would take a few years for DTV to shrink down to that core group. But I could imagine by 2022-23 that AT&T might decide to spin off DTV. If the T-Mo/Sprint/DISH deal fails and Charlie Ergen's 5G dreams don't pan out, he might be interested in buying DTV and combining it with DISH. Although if SpaceX Starlink and other LEO satellite operations are successful in bringing quality affordable broadband to the hinterlands in the early 2020s, who knows how much demand there will still be for DBS three years from now...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Comcast has made it very clear that part of their winning strategy with their X1 platform is that it supports many different popular apps.


That makes sense. They can make money off of providing bandwidth for the apps and not have to worry about their customers losing access due to negotiations. If HBO plays hardball and demands a minimum number of subscribers from Xfinity they can drop HBO and let their customers install the app. Then charge for bandwidth.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> I imagine it would be easier to make the C71 work with a new HS27 Genie server but isn't it still possible that it could work with the existing HS17 (if it had some kind of software/firmware update)? Doesn't the HS17 have the ability to connect to clients wirelessly (via wifi direct?) and maybe also via ethernet? If so, it seems at least *possible* that the C71 could connect to it without the need for coax/MoCa.
> 
> Now, that said, I have no idea how difficult it may be to get the AT&T app for Android TV on the C71 to interface smoothly with whatever software runs on the HS17. But haven't they been doing this already for a few years now with "DirecTV Ready" smart TVs from Sony, Samsung and LG? Don't those TVs work with the HS17 as though they had a built-in Genie Mini? And in the case of those Sony TVs, isn't the DirecTV software client on them probably just an Android TV app given that that's what Sony uses as their smart TV OS?
> 
> Of course, whether or not this is possible, there's still the question of whether or not AT&T even *cares* about improving the app platform for DirecTV customers (including the availability of an HBO Max app). Because if a DirecTV customer cares about streaming apps and has the home broadband necessary to use them, then he is capable of switching from DirecTV to AT&T TV. So maybe AT&T figures, hey, if our DTV customers want to access HBO Max, Netflix, YouTube, Disney+, etc. on their main TV box, they can call us or log into their AT&T account and switch themselves over to AT&T TV.





compnurd said:


> Directv Ready Smart TV's have not been marketed or supported for I believe 2 years now.. If I recall they also pulled there apps from everyones app store. They also worked with the HR44/54 Wasnt inclusive to the HS17


The last line of D* Ready/4K Ready TVs were RVU certified in 2016 and released in 2017. Ever since 2018 there hasn't been any new RVU TVs on the market.

The HS17 can support DirecTV Ready/4K Ready TVs and doesn't force you to get a client when upgrading to the HS17. However Solid Signal did have a blog post where AT&T isn't accepting new activations for RVU TVs. This bit from SS's blog pretty much seems like a logical reason as to why AT&T may not activate a RVU TV going forward:



> Unlike the physical client boxes, the client software in the TV is maintained by the TV manufacturer. There's no reason for them to update a system that almost no one uses, and so your DIRECTV-Ready TV will lose out on bug fixes that the client boxes get routinely.


I wouldn't be surprised once AT&T TV goes national and it is on stable footing that AT&T turns back to D* to see what they can do to bring it more in line with the user experiance of AT&T TV (as



JoeTheDragon said:


> Well as an plus for people who don't have good internet or just don't want to change to an different box. They can add content to HBO VOD (push / added channels).
> 
> Just think if Comcast where to market with XFINITY you can get all of HBO MAX + your locals and more with just one box vs 2 on Directv





NashGuy said:


> Comcast has made it very clear that part of their winning strategy with their X1 platform is that it supports many different popular apps. They see that the pay TV landscape has evolved, and will continue to evolve, toward a blend of cable channels and apps. Which is why X1 offers apps for Netflix, YouTube, Prime Video, Tubi, and Pandora. They've announced that they will soon add Hulu and Peacock. I expect they'll announce X1 apps for HBO Max, Disney+, and maybe Apple TV+ too, later this year. (Also, the native X1 UI incorporates the VOD libraries from HBO, Showtime, Starz and Epix without the need to launch an app.)
> 
> As viewership among cable TV subscribers becomes increasingly split between linear channels and apps/VOD, successful cable TV operators MUST offer a convenient way for their customers to aggregate and navigate all the different content sources with a single remote control on a single TV input. That's a big part of why AT&T is shifting away from DTV and launching AT&T TV, and also why the marketing materials supporting AT&T TV make such a big deal about the Android TV-based streaming device that comes with the service, touting how it combines a huge VOD library and thousands of apps with live TV and cloud DVR.





James Long said:


> That makes sense. They can make money off of providing bandwidth for the apps and not have to worry about their customers losing access due to negotiations. If HBO plays hardball and demands a minimum number of subscribers from Xfinity they can drop HBO and let their customers install the app. Then charge for bandwidth.


Comcast can't create/add an HBO Max app for X1 without the approval of AT&T. AT&T could possibly have something in their agreement with Comcast about HBO that if HBO isn't available access to the HBO Max app has to be disabled. Both AT&T and Comcast use that "minimum number of subscribers" thing for their various services so Comcast isn't going to get too out of bent about it as long as they believe they can meet that number with pay-TV and broadband subs.

Also another thing, Comcast will most likely have Peacock on Andorid TV powered devices but unless AT&T and Comcast come to an agreement in regards to Peacock then it most likely won't be available on AT&T TV devices. Similar to how AT&T and Roku are in negotiations which prevents Roku from allowing new downloads of the AT&T TV app. This was also an issue a few years back when the smaller cable companies began distributing TiVo branded set-top boxes. TiVo had to renegotiate its rights for apps like Hulu and Amazon Video to allow the cable companies TiVos to use them.

The thing is with the Android TV Operator Tier powering the AT&T TV device, AT&T can simply reach agreements for apps for use on the device that are already compatible with Android and then they are available like flipping a light switch. Comcast doesn't have that luxury as each app that gets added (like Netflix) has to be developed for that platform _after_ an agreement is reached to add it.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> I imagine it would be easier to make the C71 work with a new HS27 Genie server but isn't it still possible that it could work with the existing HS17 (if it had some kind of software/firmware update)? Doesn't the HS17 have the ability to connect to clients wirelessly (via wifi direct?) and maybe also via ethernet? If so, it seems at least *possible* that the C71 could connect to it without the need for coax/MoCa.
> 
> Now, that said, I have no idea how difficult it may be to get the AT&T app for Android TV on the C71 to interface smoothly with whatever software runs on the HS17. But haven't they been doing this already for a few years now with "DirecTV Ready" smart TVs from Sony, Samsung and LG? Don't those TVs work with the HS17 as though they had a built-in Genie Mini? And in the case of those Sony TVs, isn't the DirecTV software client on them probably just an Android TV app given that that's what Sony uses as their smart TV OS?
> 
> Of course, whether or not this is possible, there's still the question of whether or not AT&T even *cares* about improving the app platform for DirecTV customers (including the availability of an HBO Max app). Because if a DirecTV customer cares about streaming apps and has the home broadband necessary to use them, then he is capable of switching from DirecTV to AT&T TV. So maybe AT&T figures, hey, if our DTV customers want to access HBO Max, Netflix, YouTube, Disney+, etc. on their main TV box, they can call us or log into their AT&T account and switch themselves over to AT&T TV.


Yes I agree the C71 could work with the older Genies IF they decided to support it. I don't know how hard it would be but if nothing else they could wipe out the Android TV firmware and replace it with regular Directv Linux based firmware. As mentioned already the "RVU ready" stuff is toast, if the RVU Alliance had got some other big player like Comcast on board it might have gone somewhere but being Directv only doomed it.

While I agree AT&T probably has no interest in improving the app platform that's probably another reason why Android TV was attractive to them. They outsource all the worries about apps to the Android TV world, and it becomes someone else's problem. Running apps on the Genie meant they needed special apps developed for them, running on an Android TV client means they don't have to be involved in any way. Of course if they didn't want satellite customers to use apps they could just set up the Android TV client so it starts up in the Directv app and there is no way to exit it...


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> Yes I agree the C71 could work with the older Genies IF they decided to support it. I don't know how hard it would be but if nothing else they could wipe out the Android TV firmware and replace it with regular Directv Linux based firmware.


Yeah, although if they had to nuke Android TV as the OS on the C71, that would basically destroy the only reason that they'd want to use it in the first place, given that Android TV is what gives the box access to the Google Play app store and the Google Assistant. Once you take those features away, I don't know why the C71 would really be any better for DTV customers than the existing C61, HR54, etc.



slice1900 said:


> While I agree AT&T probably has no interest in improving the app platform that's probably another reason why Android TV was attractive to them.


Oh, it's by FAR the biggest reason that AT&T chose to go with Android TV for their AT&T TV device. They needed an easy turnkey way to access an existing app ecosystem for their box and Android TV was the answer.

Really, there are only two choices for pay TV operators any more if they wish to deploy their own boxes: Google's Android TV Operator Tier on the one hand and RDK (Reference Design Kit) on the other. RDK is a set of open standards/software/firmware backed by Comcast, Charter and some other cable biggies and it's what X1 is built on. Heck, increasingly, I'd say that the choice is really just between Android TV Operator Tier and simply licensing/white-labelling X1 itself, as Cox in the US and Rogers and Videotron in Canada have done. Because I doubt we're going to see any other operators develop their own STB OS based on RDK. Liberty Global, a cable giant in Europe, has developed and deployed their own "Horizon 4" based on RDK. I guess we could see a US operator license Horizon 4, although I think it's more likely that they'd go with X1.

Big question I have is what Charter will do. They're a real technological laggard with their STBs, almost as bad as DirecTV. Their CEO has expressed openness to adopting X1. I expect that's what they'll do: deploy IPTV only available as an add-on to broadband using Comcast's little Xi6 4K HDR STBs paired with their XB6/XB7 gateways, as Rogers has done with their next-gen Ignite TV service. (Standalone TV subs would be served by Charter's traditional crappy STBs and only be eligible to get a medium-sized package of QAM-based channels, mostly SD-only.) Either that or go the route that Verizon is going and simply choose to sell someone else's app-based OTT cable TV service, e.g. YouTube TV, as their next-gen cable TV offering while letting their traditional cable TV service wither away with no new improvements or investments.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> Yeah, although if they had to nuke Android TV as the OS on the C71, that would basically destroy the only reason that they'd want to use it in the first place, given that Android TV is what gives the box access to the Google Play app store and the Google Assistant. Once you take those features away, I don't know why the C71 would really be any better for DTV customers than the existing C61, HR54, etc.


Well what I'm saying is that doing that might be the easier path to supporting it on the existing Genies, and since apps for existing Genies run on the server an ability to run apps on the client is useless (without even more work on their end and creating customer confusion by having C61 and older work differently than C71 and newer)


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> Well what I'm saying is that doing that might be the easier path to supporting it on the existing Genies, and since apps for existing Genies run on the server an ability to run apps on the client is useless (without even more work on their end and creating customer confusion by having C61 and older work differently than C71 and newer)


Ah. Well, all the more reason to doubt that the C71 will ever be deployed for DTV in conjunction with any current hardware, such as the HS17. If it ever does get used for DTV, it'll be in conjunction with a next-gen server, aka HS27, as was originally referenced in the user manual. The HS27 would act as an "in-home cloud" serving up the live and recorded DBS content as local IP streams via ethernet or wifi to the C71, with the C71 directly running apps. But, as I say, I'm increasingly skeptical of the prospects of that happening for various reasons. Folks who want the C71 should consider switching to AT&T TV (although that will likely mean giving up your current package for a new one that you may or may not prefer).


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

So if anyone on DirecTV or U-Verse TV has seen an ad with the blue blob in my profile picture it was actually worth paying attention to this ad from AT&T for once as it had some good info about their new website, Access What's Yours, which has some new information on HBO Max!

For the section about HBO Max specifically scroll down and click learn more which takes you to this page which has expanded information for AT&T customers! Now the page includes a small selection of plans that include HBO but it specifically states "HBO Max has all your favorites, all in one place. Plus, it will be included *with any AT&T plan that currently includes HBO*."

Below I made a quick guide so far on what information is available for HBO Max as of 3/29/2020:









*Notes:*

The Plus/Max packages on DirecTV and AT&T TV are only available to new customers who are ordering online. These versions are currently priced considerably higher at $110/mo (Plus) and $130/mo (Max). The RSN fee applies to the Max base package on DirecTV and AT&T TV.
It is *strongly recommended* if you want either the Plus or Max base package to order these through AT&T TV Now where they are regularly priced at $65/mo for Plus and $80/mo for Max. AT&T TV Now doesn't charge an RSN Fee for Max.
If you want HBO on DirecTV or AT&T TV it is strongly recommended to add HBO as a standalone service (or with DirecTV look into the Premier or Lo Maximo packages based on your viewing habits and budget.)

If you have &More Premium (with another premium selected for free like Spotify) or &More and chose to subscribe to HBO for $17.99/mo through the WatchTV app and have DirecTV or U-Verse TV, AT&T will add HBO to your DirecTV or U-Verse TV account at no additional cost.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

I updated the first post with the new info plus added an unofficial FAQ about all the specific scenarios that can happen with the &More Premium/&More plans with WatchTV since AT&T has essentially confirmed if you have HBO with AT&T your getting HBO Max.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

Meanwhile I'm hoping HBO Max will have the full run for _Murphy Brown_ on there.


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

so some one explain it to me as a fifth grader.. i have directv total choice plus.. if I order HBO ..will I get max as well ? or is there a cost..


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

bjlc said:


> so some one explain it to me as a fifth grader.. i have directv total choice plus.. if I order HBO ..will I get max as well ? or is there a cost..


If you are an HBO subscriber through DirecTV then HBO Max is included at no additional cost because DirecTV is an AT&T company. All AT&T-HBO subscribers will have access to HBO Max at no extra cost.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

But how much of HBO Max stuff will you get with just the Directv SAT BOX?
Really don't want to have add an box to each tv to get the MAX only shows.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JoeTheDragon said:


> But how much of HBO Max stuff will you get with just the Directv SAT BOX?
> Really don't want to have add an box to each tv to get the MAX only shows.


I'd rather use HBO Now than D* for the same content. Better picture and everything is right there and easy to get to.

Rich


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

JoeTheDragon said:


> But how much of HBO Max stuff will you get with just the Directv SAT BOX?
> Really don't want to have add an box to each tv to get the MAX only shows.


The only confirmed thing is Audience will transition to an HBO Max Preview Channel. The only video service that is confirmed to get the app on its hardware is AT&T TV. The AT&T TV device will have the HBO Max app pre-loaded onto the device when it launches.

If you want the Max Originals, acquired third party content and stuff not part of the "HBO service" you will need a device compatible with the HBO Max app. While they haven't specified what devices it will be available on they have mentioned "phones, tablets, Mac and PC browsers, streaming media players and game consoles."

If HBO Go and HBO Now are anything to go by most people have some sort of device to access HBO Max already. Both support PlayStation 4 and Xbox One game consoles, Chromecast, iPhone/iPads, Android Phones/Tablets, Amazon Fire TV devices, Amazon Kindle Fire tablets, Android TV, Roku, some Samsung Smart TVs and popular browsers. HBO Go also supports TiVos.

Since HBO Go and HBO Now are available on a wide array of devices I'm suspecting WarnerMedia wants to make sure HBO Max is available on those same devices. If I were them I wouldn't spend the $$$ and R&D to develop a D* based HBO Max app on a proprietary OS that no one else uses. The AT&T TV device is getting the HBO Max app because HBO Go and HBO Now already have an Android TV version of their apps and it is easier to build an Android TV version of the HBO Max app that they can add to the AT&T TV device on launch since it is running the Android TV Operator Tier.

Like for me I game so I already have a PlayStation 4 Pro and Xbox One X so that is two devices I have at my disposal that will most likely run HBO Max since they mentioned game consoles. I also have an Apple TV and a Google Chromecast on my other two TVs to watch my other streaming services on. So I don't think many people will have to buy new streaming devices to watch HBO Max unless HBO Max is the **first** streaming service that has content someone is interested in.



Rich said:


> I'd rather use HBO Now than D* for the same content. Better picture and everything is right there and easy to get to.
> 
> Rich


HBO Go and HBO Now are exactly the same service (content, picture quality, layout, etc.). I use HBO Go a lot but since my ISP goes down for maintenance (sometimes at the most inconvenient times) if HBO wasn't included in my wireless plan I would rather pay D* the extra $3/mo keep HBO through D* so I have the linear channels as backups so if I'm watching a new episode of an original show on Sundays and my ISP goes out I don't get interrupted.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

AngryManMLS said:


> Meanwhile I'm hoping HBO Max will have the full run for _Murphy Brown_ on there.


Don't hold your breath -- my understanding is that the music rights are a big hangup. (Obviously, there are ways to overcome that, but I suspect they're not willing to spend the money or time on a show that's not as "timeless" as, say, "Friends.")


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## lacubs (Sep 12, 2010)

i been following this thread but do understand this correct HBO subscribers will also get HBO MAX?


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

trainman said:


> Don't hold your breath -- my understanding is that the music rights are a big hangup. (Obviously, there are ways to overcome that, but I suspect they're not willing to spend the money or time on a show that's not as "timeless" as, say, "Friends.")


To be fair the show does air pretty unaltered on Antenna TV right now. But I would imagine streaming would require new deals to be made which is why when the revival season happened CBS and Warner picked 18 episodes that didn't have music rights issues to have on a short term basis on CBS All Access. I could imagine a deal could be done to license the music cheaply I mean record labels (and rights owners) should realize a little money coming in is better than nothing at this point by getting the show available on streaming.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

lacubs said:


> i been following this thread but do understand this correct HBO subscribers will also get HBO MAX?


Yes all AT&T-HBO subscribers (including DirecTV) are getting HBO Max included with their HBO subscriptions. This includes standalone HBO subscriptions and those who have Premier / Lo Maximo base packages.

Essentially AT&T's new page has confirmed HBO Max will be included "with any AT&T plan that currently includes HBO." For standalone subscriptions they say "AT&T subscribers with an HBO subscription will be able to access HBO Max at no additional charge."

They have been running a new ad campaign on DirecTV & U-Verse TV reminding people that by using their credentials it will unlock various perks (AT&T Thanks) and for HBO subscribers includes access to HBO Max.


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## lacubs (Sep 12, 2010)

techguy88 said:


> Yes all AT&T-HBO subscribers (including DirecTV) are getting HBO Max included with their HBO subscriptions. This includes standalone HBO subscriptions and those who have Premier / Lo Maximo base packages.
> 
> Essentially AT&T's new page has confirmed HBO Max will be included "with any AT&T plan that currently includes HBO." For standalone subscriptions they say "AT&T subscribers with an HBO subscription will be able to access HBO Max at no additional charge."
> 
> They have been running a new ad campaign on DirecTV & U-Verse TV reminding people that by using their credentials it will unlock various perks (AT&T Thanks) and for HBO subscribers includes access to HBO Max.


Thanks


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

I will update the tables within the next 24-48 hours but AT&T has reconfigured AT&T TV Now's Plus package so HBO is no longer included and lowered the price to $55/mo for the basic Plus package. The regular price of HBO on AT&T TV Now is $14.99/mo (matching HBO Now and HBO Max) however AT&T is giving new AT&T TV Now subscribers a year of HBO at $10/mo here are the details of the offer:

*HBO OFFER: Ends 6/30/2020 at 4:59pm PDT. New AT&T TV NOW subscribers only. MAX and International Packages are ineligible. Enter code HBO10 at checkout or select offer tile in buyflow to get $4.99/mo. off your HBO subscription for 12 months. After 12 months, service renews monthly at the then-prevailing rate (currently min. $55/mo. for PLUS package + $14.99/mo. for HBO), charged to your payment method on file unless you cancel. Cancel anytime. Limits: Taking this offer will void any free trial offer. One coupon code per account. Not combinable with certain other offer, discounts, or credits. GENERAL: Compatible device & browser req'd. Residential customers only. Avail. in the U.S. only (excludes Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands). Pricing, channels, features, and terms subject to change & may be modified or discontinued at any time without notice. Cancellation: View, modify or cancel at any time at atttvnow.com. Once you've canceled you can access AT&T TV NOW through the remaining monthly period. No refunds or credits for any partial-month periods or unwatched content. Limit 3 concurrent streams with PLUS package or higher. 3rd stream is $5/mo. with other packages. Programming subject to blackout restrictions. Taxes may apply.

If you are an AT&T TV Now customer (or plan on getting AT&T TV Plus) with Unlimited Elite please see their page on how to redeem free HBO (Max pkg not eligible.)


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

So I found out more info from a friend for those who had the original Plus pkg on/before the change. Anyone with the original Plus pkg w/HBO will be grandfathered into it and it is renamed "Plus with HBO" with the price still being $65/mo. Everyone who signs up for the "new" Plus package without HBO will be billed $55/mo.

Supposedly the D* and AT&T TV versions of Plus that new customers can order online are supposed to have HBO removed however online it still shows HBO included.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> So I found out more info from a friend for those who had the original Plus pkg on/before the change. Anyone with the original Plus pkg w/HBO will be grandfathered into it and it is renamed "Plus with HBO" with the price still being $65/mo. Everyone who signs up for the "new" Plus package without HBO will be billed $55/mo.
> 
> *Supposedly the D* and AT&T TV versions of Plus that new customers can order online are supposed to have HBO removed however online it still shows HBO included.*


Wouldn't you think the people that are in charge of these kinds of things would plan it out thoroughly before they implement it? It seems like everything they do is kinda helter-skelter. We should be grateful these people aren't running an airline. Or building cars.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> Wouldn't you think the people that are in charge of these kinds of things would plan it out thoroughly before they implement it? It seems like everything they do is kinda helter-skelter. We should be grateful these people aren't running an airline. Or building cars.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, you got 6 levels of ATT TV if you include ATT TV Now in the mix, ATT Watch TV, DirecTV and still running but no longer sold new U-verse.

Talk about a mish-mash of overpriced products!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, you got 6 levels of ATT TV if you include ATT TV Now in the mix, ATT Watch TV, DirecTV and still running but no longer sold new U-verse.
> 
> Talk about a mish-mash of overpriced products!!


That's what happens when the sky starts falling on corporations. I watched Union Carbide lash out in all directions when they began to see the end was in sight. Millions spent in panic. And still they disappeared.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> That's what happens when the sky starts falling on corporations. I watched Union Carbide lash out in all directions when they began to see the end was in sight. Millions spent in panic. And still they disappeared.
> 
> Rich


That's what I like about YouTubeTV. They came up with one product, made it with a good cross section of channel/content interests, priced it fairly and seem to be doing well with it. No confusion! Simple sign up too. If you have a gmail account you can use that to start the subscription. And it works well too, which is not always the case with streamers.

Hulu+Live is problematic. Hulu basic works well, but I see way too many issues with the Live part.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> That's what I like about YouTubeTV. They came up with one product, made it with a good cross section of channel/content interests, priced it fairly and seem to be doing well with it. No confusion! Simple sign up too. If you have a gmail account you can use that to start the subscription. And it works well too, which is not always the case with streamers.
> 
> Hulu+Live is problematic. Hulu basic works well, but I see way too many issues with the Live part.


We always have the no-ad version of Hulu activated. We did try the Hulu cable replacement app, didn't have any interest in it. Just don't need a cable replacement app.

Rich


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Rich said:


> We always have the no-ad version of Hulu activated. We did try the Hulu cable replacement app, didn't have any interest in it. Just don't need a cable replacement app.
> 
> Rich


The only reason I subbed Hulu Live TV for a month was because 1) my DirecTV was out and 2) the wife just has to have Lifetime channel and YTTV didn't have it. And then she was upset that Hulu didn't have WE TV but YTTV does.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

b4pjoe said:


> The only reason I subbed Hulu Live TV for a month was because 1) my DirecTV was out and 2) the wife just has to have Lifetime channel and YTTV didn't have it. And then she was upset that Hulu didn't have WE TV but YTTV does.


Ah, the trials and travails of the streaming world!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> The only reason I subbed Hulu Live TV for a month was because 1) my DirecTV was out and 2) the wife just has to have Lifetime channel and YTTV didn't have it. And then she was upset that Hulu didn't have WE TV but YTTV does.


Throw a wife into the mix and this is what happens. Happens to me constantly. I just gave up and kept D*.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Ah, the trials and travails of the streaming world!!


Yeah, helluva learning curve.

Rich


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

New updated Quick Guide with Video Notes due to AT&T TV Now / U-Verse TV changes (added to first post as well)


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Rich said:


> Throw a wife into the mix and this is what happens. Happens to me constantly. I just gave up and kept D*.
> 
> Rich


Same here but we have been having issues since last summer with DTV. As soon as one thing gets fixed something else happens plus rain fade so she keeps saying she wants to go back to cable to get away from rain fade and save money but she doesn't want to lose any channels or the whole home system. Needless to say we're still with DTV!


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## lacubs (Sep 12, 2010)

have they announced a launch date yet? i know they said May but that only a few weeks away


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

lacubs said:


> have they announced a launch date yet? i know they said May but that only a few weeks away


As of right now they haven't announced the exact launch date just May 2020.

Audience is still continuing with its regular slate of movies and shows for now (through 4/27 because the D* guide only has data to that point for all channels) and hasn't re-branded into the HBO Max Preview Channel yet. I'm figuring Audience will re-brand around the time HBO Max actually launches.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

The lovefest between AT&T and Charter continues! Charter-HBO subscribers get HBO Max on Day 1! This includes standalone Charter-HBO subscribers and customers of their Spectrum Silver & Gold packages. Charter will also be able to sell HBO Max directly to their customers.

https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/charter-communications-set-to-distribute-hbo-max
HBO Max Will Be Available to Charter Customers at Launch - Cord Cutters News


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> The lovefest between AT&T and Charter continues!


Too bad there's no lovefest between AT&T and their own damned customers.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

makaiguy said:


> Too bad there's no lovefest between AT&T and their own damned customers.


Ummm... All AT&T subscribers (video & wireless) who currently have HBO are getting HBO Max at no additional cost. That has been known since October 2019. Anyone who signs up for HBO through their video services (like D*) or gets Unlimited Elite will get HBO Max as well.

They have also been doing free premium previews all through April and Freeviews of a bunch of higher tier channels due to COVID-19. Plus the loyalty dept may have a discount for you if you give them a call. Like with almost all companies right now be prepared for longer than normal hold times due to the pandemic. They are also suspending data allowances for their Internet customers right now and waiving late fees due to COVID-19.


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## heidic (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm planning to sign up for HBO soon, but am undecided whether to get it through DTV or go the cheaper, but less convenient, streaming route (HBO Now). I know both will offer HBO Max at no additional cost to existing HBO subscribers, but does anyone know if this will be the case for new subscribers too? I thought I might wait until after the HBO Max launch date in case there will be discounts offered to new subscribers, but don't want to end up being told HBO Max is not included in the HBO package because I wasn't an existing customer.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

New customers will get HBO Max as well when subscribing to HBO.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

*Alert! HBO Max Officially Launches on May 27, 2020*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252581601378172928


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## Doylize (Jun 2, 2019)

Does this mean Audience will go away by May 27? I'm finally watching mad men and it looks like the current running of the series will end around June 10.


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## Doylize (Jun 2, 2019)

AT&T to Shutter Audience Network on May 22 | Next TV

Well this sucks if this includes DTV shutting it down on May 22. Anywhere else I can watch mad men on good old fashioned tv?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

I'm quoting myself not typing this out again since it was relevant to the HBO Max topic and AT&T TV topic:



techguy88 said:


> I eventually forsee the traditional HBO offer including HBO Max by default once AT&T gets all the distributors on board. As long as the linear channels stay the traditional MVPD HBO will stay. Eventually over time like (5+ years down the road) HBO Now could be the most expendable one.
> 
> Speaking of this:
> 
> ...


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Doylize said:


> Anywhere else I can watch mad men on good old fashioned tv?


Available on Netflix, if that helps.


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

So will all the old HBO shows (Sopranos, The Wire, etc.) be removed from Amazon Prime and other streaming services once HBO Max goes live?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

RVD26 said:


> So will all the old HBO shows (Sopranos, The Wire, etc.) be removed from Amazon Prime and other streaming services once HBO Max goes live?


No nothing is being pulled from other streaming services because of the launch of HBO Max. Apple TV Channels, Amazon Prime Video Channels and Hulu are considered "third-party" distributors of HBO and you need an HBO subscription to access that content.

HBO made a bunch of their library content free during the month of April through their standalone apps like HBO Go and HBO Now due to the COVID-19 pandemic. All cable, satellite and streaming services that distribute HBO was allowed to make that same content free to their customers. Starting in May Amazon Prime Video customers will need to subscribe to HBO via Amazon Prime Video Channels to continue watching shows like The Sopranos, The Wire, etc.

Now the question is "will an HBO subscription through Amazon Prime Video Channels include access to HBO Max at no additional cost when that service launches on May 27th?" Currently that answer is No because Amazon and WarnerMedia haven't reached a distribution agreement for HBO Max yet.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

HBO Now customers who are billed through Apple's App Store or those who subscribe to HBO through Apple TV Channels will get HBO Max included at no extra cost at launch!

WarnerMedia expands free HBO Max deal to HBO subscribers who pay through Apple's services

Also meet the new, improved and simplified HBO Max Quick Guide


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> No nothing is being pulled from other streaming services because of the launch of HBO Max. Apple TV Channels, Amazon Prime Video Channels and Hulu are considered "third-party" distributors of HBO and you need an HBO subscription to access that content.
> 
> HBO made a bunch of their library content free during the month of April through their standalone apps like HBO Go and HBO Now due to the COVID-19 pandemic. All cable, satellite and streaming services that distribute HBO was allowed to make that same content free to their customers. Starting in May Amazon Prime Video customers will need to subscribe to HBO via Amazon Prime Video Channels to continue watching shows like The Sopranos, The Wire, etc.
> 
> Now the question is "will an HBO subscription through Amazon Prime Video Channels include access to HBO Max at no additional cost when that service launches on May 27th?" Currently that answer is No because Amazon and WarnerMedia haven't reached a distribution agreement for HBO Max yet.


My question was more about the HBO content currently on Amazon Prime for non-HBO subscribers.
It has been available on Amazon Prime without an HBO subscription.
So are you saying that starting next month this content will only be available to HBO subscribers?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

RVD26 said:


> My question was more about the HBO content currently on Amazon Prime for non-HBO subscribers.
> It has been available on Amazon Prime without an HBO subscription.
> So are you saying that starting next month this content will only be available to HBO subscribers?


Most likely yes starting in May you will need some sort of HBO subscription to continue watching. HBO only made 500 hours of their content free for April and starting in May it goes back behind their paywall.

For Amazon Prime Video customers they made that 500 hours of HBO content available to all Amazon Prime Video subscribers but starting in May you will need to subscribe to HBO via Amazon Prime Video Channels to continue watching with your Prime membership.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

I just tried it on XBOX-one Hbonow App -- It's free to stream now- I tried to Sign-in But D* is NOT listed a TV provider as of today -on the HBONOW web Site the code to activate would not work. My D* channel is package is premire? so should be included? 

I can use HBOGO


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Yes it should be included. D* is listed as a provider on the HBO Now app on ATV and Fire TV Cube. Might just be an XBOX issue.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

WestDC said:


> I just tried it on XBOX-one Hbonow App -- It's free to stream now- I tried to Sign-in But D* is NOT listed a TV provider as of today -on the HBONOW web Site the code to activate would not work. My D* channel is package is premire? so should be included?
> 
> I can use HBOGO





b4pjoe said:


> Yes it should be included. D* is listed as a provider on the HBO Now app on ATV and Fire TV Cube. Might just be an XBOX issue.


AT&T-HBO subscribers are supposed to use HBO Go.

HBO Go is for MVPDs like DirecTV who offer traditional HBO subscriptions but the streaming service is included at no extra cost.

HBO Now is the standalone streaming service for those without a traditional MVPD. Verizon Fios sells both. Fios video customers use HBO Go while Fios Internet only customers use HBO Now for example.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Okay- I thought I read somewhere in this thread -That it would also be included wit D*tv at the premier level --That's why I was confused


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

WestDC said:


> Okay- I thought I read somewhere in this thread -That it would also be included wit D*tv at the premier level --That's why I was confused


Per myAT&T website...HBO Max has all your favorites, all in one place. Plus, it will be included with any AT&T plan that currently includes HBO...Get HBO Max included at no extra cost with: DIRECTV Premier... DIRECTV LO MAXIMO...U400 and U450 TV...AT&T TV NOW Max...AT&T Unlimited wireless plan.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

techguy88 said:


> AT&T-HBO subscribers are supposed to use HBO Go.
> 
> HBO Go is for MVPDs like DirecTV who offer traditional HBO subscriptions but the streaming service is included at no extra cost.
> 
> HBO Now is the standalone streaming service for those without a traditional MVPD. Verizon Fios sells both. Fios video customers use HBO Go while Fios Internet only customers use HBO Now for example.


Oh crap. I always get HBO Now and HBO Go mixed up. It is HBO Go I was talking about.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

MysteryMan said:


> Per myAT&T website...HBO Max has all your favorites, all in one place. Plus, it will be included with any AT&T plan that currently includes HBO...Get HBO Max included at no extra cost with: DIRECTV Premier... DIRECTV LO MAXIMO...U400 and U450 TV...AT&T TV NOW Max...AT&T Unlimited wireless plan.


Thanks- That what I thought I understood -- It may happen after the Free view is over -so for now i'll wait and see


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## moob (Nov 20, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> Most likely yes starting in May you will need some sort of HBO subscription to continue watching. HBO only made 500 hours of their content free for April and starting in May it goes back behind their paywall.
> 
> For Amazon Prime Video customers they made that 500 hours of HBO content available to all Amazon Prime Video subscribers but starting in May you will need to subscribe to HBO via Amazon Prime Video Channels to continue watching with your Prime membership.


That's not what they're talking about. A fair amount of HBO content has been available to Prime customers for years for free (well, with a Prime subscription). There were rumors of Prime losing that content since 2018, but it's still there. I rewatched Band of Brothers through Prime a couple years ago.

I've been looking for an answer to this question as well RVD but I haven't found anything. My guess is Prime will lose that content when their current contract with HBO/AT&T expires, but when that is isn't public knowledge as far as I can tell. AT&T can't just pull their content because they're launching a new streaming service, but for all we know the contract expires in a month. Keep an eye on sites that keep track of when streaming services add/remove content (like reelgood).


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

moob said:


> That's not what they're talking about. A fair amount of HBO content has been available to Prime customers for years for free (well, with a Prime subscription). There were rumors of Prime losing that content since 2018, but it's still there. I rewatched Band of Brothers through Prime a couple years ago.
> 
> I've been looking for an answer to this question as well RVD but I haven't found anything. My guess is Prime will lose that content when their current contract with HBO/AT&T expires, but when that is isn't public knowledge as far as I can tell. AT&T can't just pull their content because they're launching a new streaming service, but for all we know the contract expires in a month. Keep an eye on sites that keep track of when streaming services add/remove content (like reelgood).


Ah I see my bad I apologize for the confusion. (I don't keep Amazon Prime year around I only have it twice a year max.) I haven't seen any news about WarnerMedia pulling any library content except _Friends _from Netflix. _Rick and Morty_ will actually remain on Hulu when it is added to HBO Max on May 27th. I don't think we will honestly know until the agreement expires since nothing has been reported on it. I searched high and low and found nothing. The first deal lasted from 2014-2018 so it is possible this deal (which added HBO and Cinemax to Amazon Prime Video Channels) could last until 2022.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Those who have HBO Now and pay through the Google Play Store will have HBO Max included at no extra cost at launch. Also confirmed if you use HBO Now gift cards at hbonow.com and are direct billed afterwards those subs will have HBO Max included.


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## astrohip (Mar 4, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> Those who have HBO Now and pay through the Google Play Store will have HBO Max included at no extra cost at launch. Also confirmed if you use HBO Now gift cards at hbonow.com and are direct billed afterwards those subs will have HBO Max included.


Just a quick Thank You for this thread, and keeping us updated as HBOMax comes closer to rollout. It's confusing, and this thread has helped clarify the ever-changing roadmap.

I subscribe to HBO thru both DirecTV and Comcast, and am looking forward to the new streaming HBO also.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

astrohip said:


> Just a quick Thank You for this thread, and keeping us updated as HBOMax comes closer to rollout. It's confusing, and this thread has helped clarify the ever-changing roadmap.
> 
> I subscribe to HBO thru both DirecTV and Comcast, and am looking forward to the new streaming HBO also.


Your welcome as long as it helps people glad to do it especially with how confusing it can be. I can't wait either I just want to binge watch the Studio Ghibli movies lol

HBO Max sets distribution agreement with Hulu - Existing Hulu HBO subs will get HBO Max included at no extra cost, Hulu will also sell HBO Max directly to their subs for $14.99/mo starting May 27th. This now leaves Amazon Prime Video and Roku as the only two major streamers that offers HBO/HBO Now without a distribution deal for HBO Max.

On the traditional front HBO Max is still missing deals from Comcast, Dish Network/Sling TV, Altice USA's Optimum & Suddenlink and Verizon FiOS and a lot of smaller cable companies. (I wouldn't expect Dish/Sing to ever get regular HBO/Cinemax back let alone HBO Max.) Surprised the streaming distribution partners have been more open to HBO Max than the traditional distribution partners.

From April 30th @ 9PM ET through May 27 @ 2:59 am ET HBO Max is running a preorder special where you can get HBO Max for $11.99/mo for 12 months making it less than Netflix's standard HD plan and the Disney bundle (Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+). The offer is for new subscribers and returning eligible HBO NOW subscribers. Once you preorder HBO Max you will get access to HBO Now until HBO Max launches on May 27th. They say "a limited number of subscriptions to this HBO NOW/HBO Max promotional offer are available at a discounted price of $11.99/mo."


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## moob (Nov 20, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> Your welcome as long as it helps people glad to do it especially with how confusing it can be. I can't wait either I just want to *binge watch the Studio Ghibli movies* lol


I forgot about that. Thanks. I'm adding that to the list as well. lol

Does it include Grave of the Fireflies? I don't think Ghibli has the publishing rights if I remember correctly.

Edit: Bah. It doesn't. Still a lot of great movies to watch though.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

i was just about to post about this . love all those detailed charts @techguy88 ! good job. good to see DirecTV customers will also have access to this .

also hopefully Vz FIOS will be added soon.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

moob said:


> I forgot about that. Thanks. I'm adding that to the list as well. lol
> 
> Does it include Grave of the Fireflies? I don't think Ghibli has the publishing rights if I remember correctly.
> 
> Edit: Bah. It doesn't. Still a lot of great movies to watch though.


Not all hope is lost on the streaming front. While I would like one service to have all including _Grave of the Fireflies_ you can watch that film on Hulu! They have it available in Japanese w/English subtitles and the 2012 English dub.

_Grave of the Fireflies_ rights are currently held by Sentai Filmworks who has a deal with Hulu to stream the film GKIDS only has the theatrical rights to this film. GKIDS hold all North American rights to the other Ghibli films and who inked the deal with HBO Max. _Grave of the Fireflies_ has always been a complex issue when it comes to rights and was the 1 Ghibli film Disney never held the North American right for.

I'm more interested to see what Crunchyroll titles end up on HBO Max. Some of those shows from the 2016-2018 period and any squeals those shows get are tied up in the old Funimation x Crunchyroll deal.



dtv757 said:


> i was just about to post about this . love all those detailed charts @techguy88 ! good job. good to see DirecTV customers will also have access to this .
> 
> also hopefully Vz FIOS will be added soon.


Hope so would be great if they manage to get everyone on board by launch. Glad you like the charts


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## moob (Nov 20, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> Not all hope is lost on the streaming front. While I would like one service to have all including _Grave of the Fireflies_ you can watch that film on Hulu! They have it available in Japanese w/English subtitles and the 2012 English dub.
> 
> _Grave of the Fireflies_ rights are currently held by Sentai Filmworks who has a deal with Hulu to stream the film GKIDS only has the theatrical rights to this film. GKIDS hold all North American rights to the other Ghibli films and who inked the deal with HBO Max. _Grave of the Fireflies_ has always been a complex issue when it comes to rights and was the 1 Ghibli film Disney never held the North American right for.


Ooooo. Nice. Thanks for the info. I can grab a free trial on Hulu to watch GotF and follow it up with the Ghibli films on HBO Max. I'm definitely gonna need some of those more uplifting films after watching GotF...


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

WarnerMedia uploaded one of the Looney Tunes Cartoons shorts that will be on HBO Max at launch. Pretty good.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> I'm more interested to see what Crunchyroll titles end up on HBO Max. Some of those shows from the 2016-2018 period and any squeals those shows get are tied up in the old Funimation x Crunchyroll deal.


I have a feeling _One Piece_ won't be on HBO Max as the first two seasons are being added to Netflix on June 12th - you know the same day the first 12 episodes for the English dub of _Pokemon Journeys_ comes out on.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

Does anyone know if one does the HBO Max $11.99 preorder offer if they can use HBO Now prior to HBO Max launching?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

AngryManMLS said:


> Does anyone know if one does the HBO Max $11.99 preorder offer if they can use HBO Now prior to HBO Max launching?


Yes, you get access to HBO Now until HBO Max launches.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

WarnerMedia and Crunchyroll have announced the first batch of anime titles that will be available on the service. 17 titles available at launch with 2 more available after the launch window. New anime will premiere every quarter.

HBO MAX and Crunchyroll Team to Bring Fans More Anime on May 27th

Looking at the list it seems Crunchyroll will be able to include shows they have sub-licensed the streaming rights to from other NA companies like Aniplex of America and Viz Media.



> *TITLES AVAILABLE ON DAY ONE, MAY 27th:*
> 
> *Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood *- Full Series (64 episodes)
> Disregard for alchemy's laws ripped half of Edward Elric's limbs from his body and left his brother Alphonse's soul clinging to a suit of armor. To restore what was lost, the brothers seek the Philosopher's Stone.
> ...


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## mws192 (Jun 17, 2010)

AT&T recently shut down the Cinemax "Max Go" app in the build up to the HBO MAX launch.

Starting on May 1, 2020, the MAX GO app is no longer available on iOS devices or Android phones.

*Computers*
MAX GO is available on your computer at MAXGO.com.

Which devices is MAX GO available on?


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

mws192 said:


> AT&T recently shut down the Cinemax "Max Go" app in the build up to the HBO MAX launch.
> 
> Starting on May 1, 2020, the MAX GO app is no longer available on iOS devices or Android phones.
> 
> ...


Well Max Go was never given a serious push like HBO Go under Time Warner. While both HBO Now and HBO Go is available on a wide variety of devices, Max Go was only available on computers and previously iOS devices and Android phones. The iOS devices and Android phones were the only decent way to watch Max Go content on TV. You can still cast content to TV through Chrome browser (via cast tab and expanding the video to full screen) but that is meh.

I'm guessing WarnerMedia doesn't want to support 4 concurrent apps at the same time and want to reduce confusion. After all if the Max Go app was still available and someone searched for "HBO Max" they would probably get even more confused seeing HBO Go, HBO Now, HBO Max and Max Go.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

WarnerMedia uploaded another Looney Tunes Cartoons short today


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Looks like we have the first conformation about where HBO Max *will not be available* and that is the Amazon Fire app store.



> "We're going to be available across a broad cross-section of distributors. I think that will help with the momentum of the product coming out the door," Stankey said Wednesday at an investor conference. "We're going to be in virtually all app stores, with maybe one exception: It looks like we may not be in the Amazon Fire app store, when all is said and done. But we feel really good about the distribution dynamic."


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

An AT&T employee over at the HBO Max sub-Reddit posted a screenshot of compatible devices for HBO Max from their internal resources. It is interesting in that it includes Amazon Fire devices despite Stankey just saying HBO Max may not be available to Amazon App Store at launch. I'm guessing they already have everything ready to go once they get a deal worked out with Amazon.

List of supported devices:

Android Phone 5.0+
Android Tablet 5.0+
Android TV 5.0+
Apple iPhone 6+ (iOS 12.2)

Apple iPad 4+ (they list this as iPad OS 12.2 but technically it is iOS 12.2. iPad OS just started with the releases of iOS 13 and iPad OS 13  )
Apple TV Gen 3+ (the employee notes that Gen 3 devices support HBO Max via AirPlay only, Gen4+ will support the actual HBO Max app)
Chromecast
See my note at the top about the next three
Amazon Fire Tablets 5.0+
Amazon Fire TV 5.0+
Amazon Fire Stick 5.0+

PlayStation 4 (So far unannounced, official FAQ and website just gives generic "game consoles" description.)
Roku (Also unannounced would be lumped in under generic "popular streaming media players" description.)
Samsung Smart TV (Tizen 2015+) [Note: FAQ makes no mention of smart TVs]
Xbox One (So far unannounced, official FAQ and website just gives generic "game consoles" description.)
Also my friend who works in a call center also confirmed to me AT&T Internet 1000 subscribers who have an AT&T video service like DirecTV or AT&T TV would have traditional HBO added to their video service at no extra cost after they successfully enrolled in their HBO Max benefit included with their Internet 1000 plan. (Similar to how wireless customers w/free HBO also get HBO on their video services.)


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## astrohip (Mar 4, 2007)

Quick question: I have DirecTV, including the HBO package. My plan is to watch HBO Max from an Android TV (Sony), ironically, on a Comcast Internet feed. I assume the HBO Max app will be available to download, just like any other app I've had to add (eg, Disney+). Once installed, do you know if I log in using my DirecTV credentials, or should I create some type of account first?

Trying to get ready...

Thanks!


----------



## ctide21 (Sep 4, 2011)

Has anybody seen if HBO Max will stream any shows in 4K. The quality of HBO Go is pretty low. I hope it is addressed with new app.


----------



## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> An AT&T employee over at the HBO Max sub-Reddit posted a screenshot of compatible devices for HBO Max from their internal resources. It is interesting in that it includes Amazon Fire devices despite Stankey just saying HBO Max may not be available to Amazon App Store at launch. I'm guessing they already have everything ready to go once they get a deal worked out with Amazon.


If this explanation of the conflict with Amazon has any truth to it, it looks like AT&T is mandating that the "Max" exclusive content will ONLY be available via their HBO Max app so AT&T doesn't have to share analytics data and can capture a bigger piece of the income among other things..........

Deeper Dive- What's behind the HBO Max-Amazon impasse?

_*"HBO has long been a part of Prime Video Channels, and its involvement may have helped spur its streaming growth. In 2018, TDG estimated that nearly 53% of HBO's direct-to-consumer subscribers came from Prime Video Channels. But the revenue sharing model might no longer work for WarnerMedia, especially since it's investing $4 billion in HBO Max over the next three years. That accounts for programming costs and the loss of licensing revenue from titles that could otherwise be sold to third-party streaming services.

Greenfield further broke down HBO's potential reasons for splitting with Channels stores. He said HBO Max going truly direct-to-consumer could mean higher subscriber acquisition cost, higher churn and a fractured user experience where some HBO Max content won't be available on legacy HBO and HBO Now apps. However, it also means HBO gets complete control of the user experience, complete capture of data/analytics and the ability to claim a higher share of subscription revenues.

"&#8230;It appears that forcing everyone to use HBO Max which has everything is likely the best way for AT&T/WarnerMedia to fix past missteps where HBO was forced to put near-term profits over long-term strategy," wrote Greenfield in a research note. "Sub-optimal short-term, but once people start using HBO Max, we suspect HBO Max believes they will use that as their starting point for all things HBO/HBO Max going forward.""*_


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

astrohip said:


> Quick question: I have DirecTV, including the HBO package. My plan is to watch HBO Max from an Android TV (Sony), ironically, on a Comcast Internet feed. I assume the HBO Max app will be available to download, just like any other app I've had to add (eg, Disney+). Once installed, do you know if I log in using my DirecTV credentials, or should I create some type of account first?
> 
> Trying to get ready...
> 
> Thanks!


HBO Max will be included in your DirecTV-HBO subscription. If your smart TV is powered by Android TV (5.0 or higher) then it should allow you to download the HBO Max app from the Google Play Store on May 27th like Disney+. To login you just select "Login with TV provider" and select "DirecTV" and use your DirecTV credentials.



ctide21 said:


> Has anybody seen if HBO Max will stream any shows in 4K. The quality of HBO Go is pretty low. I hope it is addressed with new app.


Nothing has been said about 4K resolution yet.


----------



## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

grover517 said:


> If this explanation of the conflict with Amazon has any truth to it, it looks like AT&T is mandating that the "Max" exclusive content will ONLY be available via their HBO Max app so AT&T doesn't have to share analytics data and can capture a bigger piece of the income among other things..........
> 
> Deeper Dive- What's behind the HBO Max-Amazon impasse?
> 
> ...


Well the problem here is Amazon most likely wants to disaggregate all the additional "Max" content into the Prime Video app as a "channel" similar to what they do with HBO content. AT&T however doesn't want Amazon to do that. In regards to analytics data when content is "disaggregated" like with Apple TV Channels or Prime Video Channels the operators (Apple / Amazon) gets that data first and can chose what gets passed on to the content owners. Amazon also takes as much as 15% - 50% of the subscription fees (WarnerMedia probably is on the lower end of the scale).

Netflix and Hulu have never been available through a "channel" type service for these very specific reasons. Amazon refuses to allow its own Prime Video content to be part other channel services. AT&T which owned Crunchyroll prior to the Time Warner acquisition never allowed Crunchyroll to be part of any "channel" service except for VRV which is owned through Crunchyroll. The only WarnerMedia streaming service not available through a "channel" service is DC Universe.

AT&T doesn't seem to have an issue if a customer prefers to have the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store bill them for their HBO Max subscriptions since the deals WarnerMedia reached for Apple and Google allows existing HBO Now subscribers who are currently third party billed by Apple or Google to continue on as normal with HBO Max included at no additional cost.

Apple's deal also allows for Apple to continue on with offering just HBO through Apple TV Channels however those subscribers will also have HBO Max included at no additional cost. If they want to watch something that is exclusive to HBO Max like _Love Life_ or _My Neighbor Totoro_ they will have to watch it within the HBO Max app.

An Apple TV Channel HBO subscriber on Reddit shared their email from Apple which breaks down how this works:

When HBO Max launches on May 27th they will have access to the HBO Max app included at no extra cost
They need to download the HBO Max app and login with their Apple ID
They can keep watching HBO only content like HBO original series (i.e. _Game of Thrones_) and movies on HBO (i.e. _Joker_) through the Apple TV app.
They can watch the "Max" content like _Friends_, _Love Life_, etc. in the HBO Max app.
Also as part of Apple's deal the HBO Max app will support integration with the Apple TV app similar to how Hulu and Disney+ work. So while in the Apple TV app you will be able to see the "Max" content however if you click to watch _My Neighbor Totoro_ while in the Apple TV app it will boot you over to the HBO Max app to actually watch the movie.

So given what's already known about the Apple-HBO Max deal it seems AT&T/WarnerMedia is OK with continuing to allow "HBO only" content to be disaggregated through "channels" services but it is a no-go when it comes to the "Max only" content. If the subscriber wants to watch the "Max only" content they have to use the HBO Max app.

When it comes to the analytics/data side of it Stankey said during the Q&A session of the WarnerMedia day event "We're making data that we pull back from this available to other distributors through Xandr. That data is federated not only with their information and insights to customers, but it will be federated with other data and insights to customers on an anonymized basis that will allow them to gain insights as to how they use that for their own advertising they choose to participate in that."


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## astrohip (Mar 4, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> HBO Max will be included in your DirecTV-HBO subscription. If your smart TV is powered by Android TV (5.0 or higher) then it should allow you to download the HBO Max app from the Google Play Store on May 27th like Disney+. To login you just select "Login with TV provider" and select "DirecTV" and use your DirecTV credentials.


Thanks, great and useful info!


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

Yep, I get free HBO because I also have AT&T cellular service, and all the HBO Max channels showed up activated on my DirecTV system three days ago.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

TDK1044 said:


> Yep, I get free HBO because I also have AT&T cellular service, and all the HBO Max channels showed up activated on my DirecTV system three days ago.


There are no HBO Max Channels Nothing is changing on Directv


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TDK1044 said:


> Yep, I get free HBO because I also have AT&T cellular service, and all the HBO Max channels showed up activated on my DirecTV system three days ago.


The same time every DIRECTV subscriber got a free preview of HBO?


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

James Long said:


> The same time every DIRECTV subscriber got a free preview of HBO?


I think he is confusing HBO Max with the Cinemax Channels which is not included in the free HBO for having ATT wireless but was included in the free preview which just ended. I've had free HBO because of my wireless since before they actually closed the deal on Time-Warner. Have to wait for free previews to see Cinemax


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Big deal on the distribution front however Amazon and Roku are still absent. Verizon FiOS, Cox and Altice USA are the big distributors from this announcement along with a handful of small distributors. AT&T confirms Xbox One and PlayStation 4 support along with Samsung TV 2016-2020 smart TV models support. See the latest news here.


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Probably a longshot question but something I was thinking about. Will any of the DirecTV boxes, like the HR54 be able to access HBOMax content? Will they be adding an On-Demand channel with that content or an "app" like iHeart or Locast to include this content? Right now, with Roku and Firestick not on the list yet, I'm trying to figure out the best way to stream this. I can do XBox but it's not the best experience for streaming IMO. I don't know if my Vizio will have the app, and if they decide to stream some content in Atmos, that won't be as great as through Roku or Firestick. I can also do Chromecast, but sound quality is not DD.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> Probably a longshot question but something I was thinking about. Will any of the DirecTV boxes, like the HR54 be able to access HBOMax content? Will they be adding an On-Demand channel with that content or an "app" like iHeart or Locast to include this content? Right now, with Roku and Firestick not on the list yet, I'm trying to figure out the best way to stream this. I can do XBox but it's not the best experience for streaming IMO. I don't know if my Vizio will have the app, and if they decide to stream some content in Atmos, that won't be as great as through Roku or Firestick. I can also do Chromecast, but sound quality is not DD.


They can also add channels / change max


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Steveknj said:


> Probably a longshot question but something I was thinking about. Will any of the DirecTV boxes, like the HR54 be able to access HBOMax content? Will they be adding an On-Demand channel with that content or an "app" like iHeart or Locast to include this content? Right now, with Roku and Firestick not on the list yet, I'm trying to figure out the best way to stream this. I can do XBox but it's not the best experience for streaming IMO. I don't know if my Vizio will have the app, and if they decide to stream some content in Atmos, that won't be as great as through Roku or Firestick. I can also do Chromecast, but sound quality is not DD.


So far they have made no mention if any provider including D* will have the HBO Max app on their set-top boxes. The Genies and Xfinity's X1 boxes (which are also the same boxes Cox uses for their Contour service) currently have not been announced as having an HBO Max app. They wouldn't put the HBO Max content on an on demand channel for DirecTV because that would mean they "disaggregate" the Max content from the HBO Max app which is what they don't want Amazon to do for Prime Video channels. They want people using the HBO Max app as much as possible just like Disney wants people watching Disney+ content through the Disney+ app as much as possible.



JoeTheDragon said:


> They can also add channels / change max


If you mean change Cinemax then that is something they are not doing at this time. They are already on record in saying Cinemax is staying put. The only change is they stopped development on the iOS/Android app development for Max Go. If you want Cinemax content on mobile, tablet and streaming devices the best option is using a "channels" service like Apple TV channels for Apple devices or Prime Video Channels for everything else.


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## ddhawk (Apr 19, 2009)

techguy88 said:


> Big deal on the distribution front however Amazon and Roku are still absent. Verizon FiOS, Cox and Altice USA are the big distributors from this announcement along with a handful of small distributors. AT&T confirms Xbox One and PlayStation 4 support along with Samsung TV 2016-2020 smart TV models support. See the latest news here.
> 
> View attachment 30570


In this graphic, you say that for DIRECTV, HBO Subscribers (Add On) will have HBO MAX included with their HBO add on subscription. The information I've seen from other sources are saying only DIRECTV PREMIER subscribers will have HBO MAX included and other subscribers will be offered a 3 month to 12 month free trial. In particular, this story from CNET shows a graphic from ATT about half way down the page (blue graphic) that claims that add on customers won't be getting MAX for free.

Since we haven't gotten anything official from DIRECTV, I just want to know. I subscribe to HBO as an add on to CHOICE ($17.99) and if they are not offering HBO MAX for free to me, then it would make more sense to cancel my HBO subscription with DIRECTV and get in on the preorder deal for $11.99 per month for the first year and then $14.99 afterwards since you get all the HBO content plus the extras.

Maybe it makes sense to go the personal HBO MAX subscription (preorder) route anyways, even if DIRECTV does offer HBO MAX for free, because unless I'm missing something, I wouldn't be getting anything for the extra $3-$6 per month keeping the DIRECTV subscription to HBO.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

That graphic clearly states you will get it at no charge if you subscribe to HBO through AT&T. My _guess_ if you cancel that and use the $11.99 or the $14.99 subscription options you would only get HBO content through the MAX app and lose the DTV linear channels.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

ddhawk said:


> In this graphic, you say that for DIRECTV, HBO Subscribers (Add On) will have HBO MAX included with their HBO add on subscription. The information I've seen from other sources are saying only DIRECTV PREMIER subscribers will have HBO MAX included and other subscribers will be offered a 3 month to 12 month free trial. In particular, this story from CNET shows a graphic from ATT about half way down the page (blue graphic) that claims that add on customers won't be getting MAX for free.
> 
> Since we haven't gotten anything official from DIRECTV, I just want to know. I subscribe to HBO as an add on to CHOICE ($17.99) and if they are not offering HBO MAX for free to me, then it would make more sense to cancel my HBO subscription with DIRECTV and get in on the preorder deal for $11.99 per month for the first year and then $14.99 afterwards since you get all the HBO content plus the extras.
> 
> Maybe it makes sense to go the personal HBO MAX subscription (preorder) route anyways, even if DIRECTV does offer HBO MAX for free, because unless I'm missing something, I wouldn't be getting anything for the extra $3-$6 per month keeping the DIRECTV subscription to HBO.


I don't know what else to say. AT&T's own page about HBO Max clearly states this:


> Already have HBO? Great! AT&T customers with an HBO subscription will be able to access the HBO Max app at no extra charge using their AT&T User ID and password.


AT&T during the WarnerMedia day event back in October 2019 boasted they are the largest distributor of HBO in the United States. Out of the 30~some million HBO subscribers AT&T boasts they have 10 million of them across their various video & wireless offerings. They clearly said ALL 10 million of them will have HBO Max included at no additional cost. Highly unlikely all 10 million AT&T-HBO subscribers are exclusively in DirecTV Premier, DirecTV Lo Maximo, AT&T TV Now Max, U-Verse TV U450, AT&T Unlimited Elite, etc.

Before I started making my own tables summarizing all of the news about who is getting HBO Max included when it came to AT&T customers specifically I have been keeping in close contact with my friends who work for AT&T in company owned retail stores, AT&T owned call centers operated by AT&T prior to the DirecTV acquisition and friends who work in former DirecTV owned and operated call centers that AT&T took over and have kept after the DirecTV acquisition. All of them have given me reliable info in the past I have shared here before (with their consent) that have come to pass. So those tables are extensively researched through various reliable sources.

Ever since 2016 anything AT&T says represents DirecTV as they own DirecTV 100%. When AT&T says "AT&T customers" that includes anyone with a DirecTV satellite subscription.

In this press release from AT&T for example they clearly say "Customers *who subscribe to HBO through AT&T will be offered immediate access to HBO Max included in their service for no additional charge.* *In addition*, customers on select AT&T wireless, video and internet plans will have HBO Max included. "

That, right there, should clarify everything. If you have DirecTV Choice and subscribe to HBO ($17.99/mo) then you will have HBO Max included at no additional charge. In this instance you would select "Login with TV provider" and select "DirecTV".

In my case I have DirecTV Select & AT&T Unlimited Elite. I currently login to HBO Go by selecting AT&T Wireless as my provider and using my AT&T credentials and AT&T replicates my free HBO subscription onto my DirecTV service so I can watch the linear HBO channels on DirecTV and use HBO on Demand. When HBO Max launches I would select "AT&T" and use my AT&T credentials.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Lordt the Zack Snyder fans are passionate ever since the conformation of the Snyder cut of _Justice League_ coming exclusively to HBO Max in 2021.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1263549336832684035


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## moob (Nov 20, 2008)

RVD26 said:


> So will all the old HBO shows (Sopranos, The Wire, etc.) be removed from Amazon Prime and other streaming services once HBO Max goes live?


Going back to this, it looks like all the content was removed from Prime within the last week (I hadn't checked in a few days so I'm not sure when exactly). Unfortunate but not unexpected I suppose.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

moob said:


> Going back to this, it looks like all the content was removed from Prime within the last week (I hadn't checked in a few days so I'm not sure when exactly). Unfortunate but not unexpected I suppose.


Most likely when the special free preview event ended on April 30th Amazon put all the HBO content back under the HBO channel through Prime Video Channels on May 1st similar to what happened on HBO Go/HBO Now standalone apps.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Just checked the HBO Max FAQ page Consolidated Communications and Liberty Cablevision of Puerto Rico were added as to the list of ISPs who's HBO Now customers will have HBO Max included with their HBO Now subscriptions at no additional cost.


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> Most likely when the special free preview event ended on April 30th Amazon put all the HBO content back under the HBO channel through Prime Video Channels on May 1st similar to what happened on HBO Go/HBO Now standalone apps.


I think you're still confusing the HBO content that has been free for years on Prime without an HBO subscription.
I just checked and indeed the HBO shows are no longer available for free on Prime.
It had nothing to do with a free preview.
Thankfully, I get HBO for free through AT&T so I assume I will also get free access to HBO Max.
But it sucks for those Prime Video members who don't have an HBO subscription.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

So one of the big questions have been was "is AT&T going to continue charging $17.99/mo on DirecTV for HBO when HBO Max standalone is $14.99/mo?" Well speculate no more people *stomps foot* they have actually done something well.... I don't think any of us has expected. They are *decreasing* the monthly cost of standalone HBO to match the price of HBO Max!

I just found this out today because my mom asked me to check to see if there was any free premium offers going on and I logged into her DirecTV account via att.com (she's in the AT&T billing system) and I saw this:







I was shocked so I created a mock DirecTV order on AT&T's website and saw this in the shopping cart:








I just checked with my friend who works at the call center and he confirmed that the price change started Sunday and is being rolled out throughout the various systems and should be in all systems by HBO Max's launch day 5/27. This is how he explained it to me:

New and existing DirecTV customers through AT&T's billing system and existing U-Verse TV customers adding HBO to their accounts will see the new rate as of Sunday.
Existing DirecTV customers in the legacy DirecTV billing system, AT&T TV customers and att.com will see the new $14.99/mo rate on 5/27.
When the new rate takes effect in the respective billing system eligible customers who currently do not subscribe to HBO should be able to take advantage of the free trial offer online.
Customers who currently subscribe to HBO are not eligible for this offer.
Customers currently receiving a HBO at a discounted rate are not eligible for this offer (i.e. HBO for $9.99 for 12 months)
New customers already receiving HBO free for 3 or 12 months
Customers that recently had a free trial or discounted promotion of HBO that recently ended
Base packages that are $29.99 or lower (i.e. DirecTV Family or U-Verse TV's U-Basic) are not eligible for this offer.

Customers who currently subscribe to HBO will see their price decrease from $17.99/mo to $14.99/mo on DirecTV or $16/mo to $14.99/mo on U-Verse on their first bill statement after HBO Max's launch. 
Premier and Lo Maximo will remain the same price this is expected because if you take Ultimate and add all 5 premiums (HBO, Cinemax, Starz, Showtime & Sports Pack) together Premier is still cheaper.

After playing around with my mom's account here is the full list of changes impacted by HBO's price decrease for DirecTV.









This is big for DirecTV customers. The last time that DirecTV charged $14.99/mo for HBO was in 2010!


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## moob (Nov 20, 2008)

That's good news. It was kinda head-scratching that it'd be more on DirecTV considering you could get it for less on its own. I left it on because of the convenience, but if the HBO Max app popped up on my Vizio's Home screen (like Disney+ did a few months after it launched), I would have canceled it through DirecTV and gotten the stand-alone version.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

moob said:


> That's good news. It was kinda head-scratching that it'd be more on DirecTV considering you could get it for less on its own. I left it on because of the convenience, but if the HBO Max app popped up on my Vizio's Home screen (like Disney+ did a few months after it launched), I would have canceled it through DirecTV and gotten the stand-alone version.


I would have probably done the same if I didn't get HBO/HBO Max through my AT&T Unlimited Elite plan tbh. I use the HBO Go app more anyway than I do the linear channels.

FYI: According to the countdown on AT&T's HBO Max page HBO Max will launch exactly at 12:00 AM Pacific Time on May 27th (3:00 AM Eastern)

If you don't have HBO or HBO Now and want to lock in the pre-order discount of $11.99/mo for 12 months you have until May 26th 11:59 Pacific Time / May 27th 2:59 AM Eastern. Unless there is some sort of 11th Hour announcement later today, as of 5/26 4:05 AM Eastern there is no deals/announcements at present for the HBO Max app to be available on the Amazon App Store or the Roku Channels Store. The #1 MVPD Comcast also don't have an agreement to include HBO Max as part of their HBO subscriptions for their subscribers.

See this post for the most recent updated table of who is getting HBO Max included with their HBO subscriptions at no additional cost.


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## ThaPhenom (Aug 21, 2006)

techguy88 said:


> Just checked the HBO Max FAQ page Consolidated Communications and Liberty Cablevision of Puerto Rico were added as to the list of ISPs who's HBO Now customers will have HBO Max included with their HBO Now subscriptions at no additional cost.
> 
> View attachment 30577


So based on this, as a DirecTV customer who also has AT&T Internet 1000, I should get HBO Max for free, even though I don't subscribe to HBO. Correct?


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

ThaPhenom said:


> So based on this, as a DirecTV customer who also has AT&T Internet 1000, I should get HBO Max for free, even though I don't subscribe to HBO. Correct?


Per AT&T. If you have DIRECTV Premier, LO MAXIMO, U400 and U450 TV, AT&T Unlimited Elite wireless plan or AT&T Internet 1000 you'll get HBO Max for free.


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## lacubs (Sep 12, 2010)

what app do i download tomorrow? is there a HBO MAX APP? or just the regular HBO GO APP? thanks


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

ThaPhenom said:


> So based on this, as a DirecTV customer who also has AT&T Internet 1000, I should get HBO Max for free, even though I don't subscribe to HBO. Correct?


You will get HBO Max included with your AT&T Internet 1000 plan. You login with your AT&T credentials and AT&T would be your provider.



lacubs said:


> what app do i download tomorrow? is there a HBO MAX APP? or just the regular HBO GO APP? thanks


It would be the HBO Max app. The HBO Go app will most likely remain separate for a while for providers with no deals for HBO Max or for those who want just HBO content.


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## bamasat22 (Apr 26, 2016)

techguy88 said:


> You will get HBO Max included with your AT&T Internet 1000 plan. You login with your AT&T credentials and AT&T would be your provider.
> 
> It would be the HBO Max app. The HBO Go app will most likely remain separate for a while for providers with no deals for HBO Max or for those who want just HBO content.


Ch 9548
I doubt they'll slip up for the nominal patron / subs, but.. who knows it might show in the clear.
-info went out by internal intranet and vocal meetings today.










Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

The lower 9000s are Private Network Broadcasts channels and an employee account type is required. There is a special coding on the employee accounts allowing them access to those channels. My consumer receivers never let me watch them but I popped in on my friend one time that works in the call center while he was watching that same channel when he was watching some sort of internal employee town hall on that channel. He had to quickly press record and turn away from the channel so I didn't hear much of what was said.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

HBO Max has launched however it looks like WarnerMedia has changed some of their initial plans.

*HBO Go* remains untouched (most likely for distributors who have no agreement in place to upgrade their HBO customers at no additional cost.)
*HBO Now* is only available on *un-supported devices* like Amazon Fire TV devices and Roku devices and hbonow.com.
The existing HBO Now app was upgraded to *HBO Max *on supported devices.
Android TV users will only see HBO Go or HBO Max
Roku users see HBO Go or HBO Now

*Supported devices*


> The following phones and tablets are supported:
> 
> Apple iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch (with iOS 12.2 or later)
> Android phone and tablets (with Android OS 5 or later)
> ...


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## bamasat22 (Apr 26, 2016)

techguy88 said:


> The lower 9000s are Private Network Broadcasts channels and an employee account type is required. There is a special coding on the employee accounts allowing them access to those channels. My consumer receivers never let me watch them but I popped in on my friend one time that works in the call center while he was watching that same channel when he was watching some sort of internal employee town hall on that channel. He had to quickly press record and turn away from the channel so I didn't hear much of what was said.


 We ARE aware.. . ( Broadcast vs ch numbers)
...Thus no reason to turn away. It WILL be in the clear here regardless.
Also the app has been functioning through 2 sources ( Samsung TV app / Android phones) in flawless fashion.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

I added the HBOMAX app to my Android 4K HDTV earlier this morning. It's best feature is "Who is Watching?" which allows you to add adults and children on the account. After making these selections you simply select the person on the account who is using it and it goes to that person's settings. Very convenient.


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## lacubs (Sep 12, 2010)

Xbox one is having problems with the download right now, will try later


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

bamasat22 said:


> Also the app has been functioning through 2 sources ( Samsung TV app / Android phones) in flawless fashion.


It had a small issue briefly this morning where it didn't want to play anything. I had to switch back to old reliable HBO Go to watch the most recent episode of Last Week Tonight I missed then after that it worked without issue. So far much better than when Disney+ launched when it was down for several hours.



MysteryMan said:


> I added the HBOMAX app to my Android 4K HDTV earlier this morning. It's best feature is "Who is Watching?" which allows you to add adults and children on the account. After making these selections you simply select the person on the account who is using it and it goes to that person's settings. Very convenient.


I'm loving being able to watch the Ghibli movies in HD finally defiantly better than upscaled Disney DVDs lol. I eventually plan on upgrading my Ghibli DVDs to Blu-Ray but having the movies on HBO Max will do until then 



lacubs said:


> Xbox one is having problems with the download right now, will try later


I haven't tried Xbox One yet I was able to download the HBO Max app to my beta AT&T TV device, Nvidia Shield TV, PS4 Pro, iPhone XR and Apple TV (4th Gen) without issues so far.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Also I'm just wondering when they pulled a Disney and got the streaming rights to the eight _Harry Potter_ movies back?! They gave no indication they got those right back. I was very surprised to see the _Harry Potter _films available on HBO Max on Day 1.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

HBO Max was already installed on my ATT TV box this morning.

One thing I noticed that in ‘Browse’ it shows that Cinemax series are on it, but you can’t select that nor are any of the Cinemax series on the service yet. I tried searching for some of them, nope, none there.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

OK I downloaded the new app on my Apple TV and installed. I used the 'sign in with your TV provider' and it accepted that info and it created the account on the HBOMAX.com website but never prompted me for a password. When I tried to sign in to the app using my DirecTV credentials on the Apple TV I got a message that the password had to be at least 8 characters and my DirecTV password is fewer than 8 characters so I had to go back to the hbomax.com website and create a new password that is 8 characters. Then the TV app worked fine on the Apple TV. Then I went to my Fire TV Cube. There is no HBO Max app for it. I tried the HBO GO app and it only gives the regular HBO content that was previously available. So for kicks I tried the HBO NOW app that I had never previously been able to use. It let me sign in with my HBO Max credentials I created earlier. However it only shows the same content as what I have on the HBO GO app which is just the old HBO content. So is it not possible to get HBO Max on a Fire TV device?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Yep, no HBO Max for FireTV or Roku yet.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> HBO Max was already installed on my ATT TV box this morning.
> 
> One thing I noticed that in 'Browse' it shows that Cinemax series are on it, but you can't select that nor are any of the Cinemax series on the service yet. I tried searching for some of them, nope, none there.


Oops! My bad. I should never read/watch until I've had my first coffee! It was referring to HBO Max originals, none of which are enticing to me.


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Yep, no HBO Max for FireTV or Roku yet.


How could they launch and not be on FireTV or Roku?


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

I find it hard to imagine that they release this app and it's not available on the two most popular streaming devices. Leave it to AT&T to screw this up.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

> Wondering how big of a deal this is? In 2019, market research firm Parks Associates said that Roku has 39% of the installed base of streaming media players in the United States, with Amazon Fire TV trailing behind at 30%. That means that somewhere around 69% of streaming media devices in households around the US _do not_ have access to HBO Max.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Steveknj said:


> I find it hard to imagine that they release this app and it's not available on the two most popular streaming devices. Leave it to AT&T to screw this up.


While I'm no fan of AT&T how do you know for sure it wasn't the fault of those two popular streaming devices?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

RVD26 said:


> How could they launch and not be on FireTV or Roku?


Obviously it was pretty easy since they did it! . Note that when ATT TV came out it wasn't on Roku or AndroidTV OS. Hulu has some 5.1 audio, but not on AppleTV. And there are other seemingly stupid things they all do as they jockey for position and profits.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

A lot of industry sources have said Amazon wants the Max content as a "channel" within the Prime Video app just like the HBO content and that is where WarnerMedia is saying no. WarnerMedia wants the Max only content viewed exclusively through the HBO Max app and website. Another issue that has been raised for both Amazon & Roku is possibly the revenue split. Keep in mind Disney+ almost launched without Amazon Fire device support.

Also a last minute distribution deal must have been reached... Comcast Xfinity-HBO subscribers can now select Xfinity as their provider and login to the HBO Max app. Xfinity was just added a few minutes ago.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

I am shocked no 4K/HDR I heard the bit rate is good but still


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## daniloni (Jul 31, 2013)

I have a subscription to HBO both through DirecTV (Premier) and AT&T Wireless (Elite). I get a discount on my DirecTV bill for HBO. So I'm not on combined billing. When I try to log in to HBO Max through DirecTV I'm asked for my AT&T credentials. My DirecTV password did not work, but my AT&T Wireless password did (despite selecting DirecTV as the provider). I know it's not the biggest complaint in the world, since I am able to access, but I would prefer to be able to log in with my DirecTV password, as it's a simple one that the family already knows.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

I read where someone sideloaded the HBO Max app on their Fire TV device. It worked but only if you put a mouse on it to navigate within the HBO Max app as the Fire TV remote keys didn't work.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

daniloni said:


> I have a subscription to HBO both through DirecTV (Premier) and AT&T Wireless (Elite). I get a discount on my DirecTV bill for HBO. So I'm not on combined billing. When I try to log in to HBO Max through DirecTV I'm asked for my AT&T credentials. My DirecTV password did not work, but my AT&T Wireless password did (despite selecting DirecTV as the provider). I know it's not the biggest complaint in the world, since I am able to access, but I would prefer to be able to log in with my DirecTV password, as it's a simple one that the family already knows.


The password has to be at least 8 characters. I ran into the same thing so I was able to change the HBO Max password on the HBO Max website without changing my DirecTV password.


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> While I'm no fan of AT&T how do you know for sure it wasn't the fault of those two popular streaming devices?


I'm sure both sides have some responsibility in this. But considering AT&T's track record recently, I'll blame them 

But seriously, I would have pushed this back until at least one of the two leading streaming devices had the app. This could wind up upsetting a lot of people who wanted this. At least they were smart enough to not remove the existing HBO apps.


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## daniloni (Jul 31, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> The password has to be at least 8 characters. I ran into the same thing so I was able to change the HBO Max password on the HBO Max website without changing my DirecTV password.


My DirecTV password is 8 characters, so that's not the problem. May be a problem that I use the same username on DirecTV and AT&T, but different passwords.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

When I used the 'sign on with tv provider' it created the user account at the HBO Max website but did not ask for or give the account a password. I had to go to the HBO Max website and give the newly created account a password so you might need to do the same. Is your DirecTV account still on DirecTV billing or was it migrated to AT&T?


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## TJNash (Jun 5, 2012)

Sign-in worked seamlessly on my PS4. Downloaded the HBO Now app, chose sign-in using TV provider. Gave me a web address prompt, used my phone's browser, entered the code, and then prompted to pick provider. Chose DirecTV, entered my AT&T sign-in info and was all set. 

The service looks excellent.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

When I sign into either HBO GO or HBO NOW using either my DirecTV provider info or my HBO Max username/password I get the regular HBO without the new content on HBO Max like Friends or The Big Bang Theory. That is on either the website using a browser on my computer or through those two apps on the Amazon Fire TV.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

b4pjoe said:


> When I sign into either HBO GO or HBO NOW using either my DirecTV provider info or my HBO Max username/password I get the regular HBO without the new content on HBO Max like Friends or The Big Bang Theory. That is on either the website using a browser on my computer or through those two apps on the Amazon Fire TV.


That is what would be expected.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

RVD26 said:


> I think you're still confusing the HBO content that has been free for years on Prime without an HBO subscription.
> I just checked and indeed the HBO shows are no longer available for free on Prime.
> It had nothing to do with a free preview.
> Thankfully, I get HBO for free through AT&T so I assume I will also get free access to HBO Max.
> But it sucks for those Prime Video members who don't have an HBO subscription.


Right after the pandemic started HBO put multiple original series out for free for everyone on every service. Sopranos was one of them. It was always going to end after a while and before max launched.

Some of those series may have also been on prime but I don't believe all of them where.

HBO puts 'The Sopranos,' 'The Wire,' 'Succession' and 6 more shows free online

It does not surprise me to see them all Come off prime though with the launch of max and the evidently internal fight with Amazon on max being a channel in the prime app.


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## moob (Nov 20, 2008)

compnurd said:


> I am shocked no 4K/HDR I heard the bit rate is good but still


That's disappointing. I downloaded the app on my phone and I'll cast some stuff tonight to test it but I was hoping they'd have 4K content on launch. Hopefully it's coming.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

inkahauts said:


> That is what would be expected.


I thought others here were saying they are getting HBO Max content using the HBO NOW app. I might be misunderstanding on that front.


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## TJNash (Jun 5, 2012)

b4pjoe said:


> I thought others here were saying they are getting HBO Max content using the HBO NOW app. I might be misunderstanding on that front.


It depends on the device you are using.
On my PS4, I downloaded the HBO Now app but it converted to HBO Max upon successful sign-in.
You will not get HBO Max content via HBO Now on devices not supporting HBO Max (Rokus, Fire TVs.)


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

TJNash said:


> It depends on the device you are using.
> On my PS4, I downloaded the HBO Now app but it converted to HBO Max upon successful sign-in.
> You will not get HBO Max content via HBO Now on devices not supporting HBO Max (Rokus, Fire TVs.)


OK thanks for that explanation.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Wow ! that HBO Max app popped up in my apps list on my TV and says stream now.

2016 Samsung KU7000 4k TV


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Yes. Available on some models of Samsung TV's. It isn't available on any of my 3 LG TV's. 2 of which only have a Fire TV streaming box. Oh well...


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

b4pjoe said:


> Yes. Available on some models of Samsung TV's. It isn't available on any of my 3 LG TV's. 2 of which only have a Fire TV streaming box. Oh well...


Not on any of my LG or Vizio TVs. I have a Samsung in the bedroom that I'll check, but for now XBox or via chromcast it my only options on the large screens. Android phones and tablets work natively.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

I signed in; I am supposed to get this free. Anyway to tell if that is the case?


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## bamasat22 (Apr 26, 2016)

techguy88 said:


> .
> 
> Also a last minute distribution deal must have been reached... Comcast Xfinity-HBO subscribers can now select Xfinity as their provider and login to the HBO Max app. Xfinity was just added a few minutes ago.


Per the opening launch party ( above referenced post and channel )
The Comcast deal was reached last night. A big deal was made of it.

"Stank" told everyone in high archy to " lean into it" and to ( paraphrased) -listen to the customers-.

I will say this much " the people" involved in HBOmax are second to none . The world involvement and the leaders in every part of this launch / product are the very best the industry has to offer. THE best.
It WILL succeed.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

bjdotson said:


> I signed in; I am supposed to get this free. Anyway to tell if that is the case?


If you are getting it free because you have HBO through AT&T... the landing page of my AT&T account shows this:









On the HBO Max website under billing it just says: Your HBO Max subscription is billed through AT&T.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> If you are getting it free because you have HBO through AT&T... the landing page of my AT&T account shows this:
> 
> View attachment 30594
> 
> ...


I don't have the screenshot that you showed but I signed in before going to att landing page. I get HBO free on Directv because of my wireless data plan so I'm probably worried for nothing (and the billing does say billed through AT&T) but it would be nice to have some sort of confirmation since I can be a bit of a worrier.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

b4pjoe said:


> If you are getting it free because you have HBO through AT&T... the landing page of my AT&T account shows this:
> 
> View attachment 30594
> 
> ...


HBO Max is classifying any AT&T product as being billed through AT&T including any standalone DirecTV subscriber in any billing system. I have a friend in legacy DirecTV billing system with Premier who I helped set up and when he clicked on "DirecTV" it took him to the white "AT&T" branded login page (not the usual "DirecTV" branded TV Everywhere login page) he entered his DirecTV username and password and it worked and under his account details it says he is billed through AT&T.


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## the future is now (Jun 10, 2010)

compnurd said:


> I am shocked no 4K/HDR I heard the bit rate is good but still


agree, this is a huge disappointment for something like this when so many now have the equipment.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

I am supposed to be getting it for free because I have HBO on Directv and I also have Unlimited Elite on cell. When I try to log in on Apple TV or my iPhone I get an error message that my AT&T. subscription does not include HBO Max. I was on the phone with the call center for about an hour today, and they couldn't figure it out, then told me try again after June 2. Whats up with that?


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

I thought that somebody posted that Directv customers with lower level plans (I have Choice Xtra Classic) would get HBO Max for free for three months. I tried registering online yesterday but the system responded; "Can’t Verify Your Subscription. It looks like your AT&T subscription does not include HBO Max. If you believe you have received this message in error, please contact your provider".

Am I doing something wrong or was the information about a free three month subscription bogus.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

*AT&T: The HBO Max Launch Was A Disaster*

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4350913-t-hbo-max-launch-was-disaster


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

DirectMan said:


> I thought that somebody posted that Directv customers with lower level plans (I have Choice Xtra Classic) would get HBO Max for free for three months. I tried registering online yesterday but the system responded; "Can't Verify Your Subscription. It looks like your AT&T subscription does not include HBO Max. If you believe you have received this message in error, please contact your provider".
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or was the information about a free three month subscription bogus.


You have to login to your DirecTV account to add the promotion. If your in the AT&T billing system your account is managed at att.com If your in the legacy DirecTV billing system you would go to directv.com

As long as you haven't had a recent promotion for HBO (such as a discount or some other kind of free trial) anyone above Family should be eligible according to their press release.

The reason you have to manually add this promotion is it automatically continues to bill after the 3 month trial unless you call or chat to a representative to cancel HBO+HBO Max.

My mother has Preferred Xtra and is in the AT&T billing system and was able to add the offer online since the last time she had an HBO promotion was over 2 years ago.

I'm providing the steps below just in case anyone wants help with how to add an add-on like HBO+HBO Max to their DirecTV account online (combine bill customers may have to call or chat to a rep these instructions are for standalone accounts):

Depending on which billing system you are in here are the steps (if you have a recent copy of your bill look at the name printed on the first page in the top left. If it says "AT&T" your in the AT&T billing system. If it says "DIRECTV" your in the DirecTV billing system" also accounts in the AT&T billing system always have a 9-digit account number, DirecTV is usually 8-digits or less)

*AT&T Billing System for Converted/New DirecTV customers*

Login to your DirecTV account at att.com
Scroll down to "My Services" and select "Manage Package"
Scroll down to "My add-ons" and select "Add or Remove Channels"
After the system loads the ordering screen click the "+" symbol beside "Premium and Movie Channels"
Scroll to find "HBO + HBO Max" (It is the seventh option listed after Movies Extra Pack)
If the offer is still available online/or if you are eligible the $14.99/mo. price will struck through with $0.00 beside of it. Underneath "HBO + HBO Max" you will see green text with the terms and conditions of the 3-month trial offer.
Pretty much they are clearly warning you that after 3 months HBO+HBO Max will revert to its regular price of $14.99/mo on month 4 unless you call them to cancel it. (You can also chat to remove it if you want.)

Click the "Add" button beside the offer then scroll down to the bottom of the ordering screen and select "Continue"
You will be taken to an order recap screen where AT&T now in bold dark green is emphasizing the terms and conditions of the offer. Scroll down to the bottom and click "Submit" and you will be given an order number.
Give the system approximately 5-20 minutes to execute the order and periodically check channel 501. Once the HBO channels on DirecTV become active then you should be able to go to hbomax.com select "Login with TV/Mobile Provider" select "DirecTV" and use HBO Max.

*Legacy DirecTV Billing System*

Login to your account at directv.com
Once on your account overview page loads look to your left where you see "My Snapshot" and underneath your package name select "View My Programming"
On the "My Account: My Programming" page scroll down to "Add Additional Premium Channels" and locate "HBO+HBO Max" (usually at the top)
If you are eligible for the 3-month trial or able to add it online you should see beside "HBO+HBO Max" in bold "$0.00 per month for 3 months, $14.99/mo. thereafter"
Click the orange "Activate Now" to add the offer to your account
A dialog box will appear to advise you of the terms and conditions.
Click "Activate Now" again to confirm/proceed with adding the "HBO+HBO Max" service with the 3-month trial to your account.
Within 5-10 minutes the HBO channels on DirecTV should be active. After they are active then you can login to hbomax.com with your DirecTV credentials.
(For those wondering I was helping my mother when she was adding this offer to her account and I walked her through it. I am in the legacy DirecTV system myself so this is how I know how to add programming add-ons in both systems.)


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

DirectMan said:


> *AT&T: The HBO Max Launch Was A Disaster*
> 
> https://seekingalpha.com/article/4350913-t-hbo-max-launch-was-disaster


Shows that guy doesn't get it. They aren't looking to add new subscribers to HBO Max, they have millions already by making everyone who gets HBO from their cable/satellite/vMVPD plan an HBO Max subscriber.

The strategy is that as those people cut the cord, if HBO has a separate direct relationship with them they stand a better chance of getting them to keep paying for HBO as one of the streaming plans they subscribe to.

If they are successful in holding on to enough of the cord cutters they can maintain the same revenue level. Any new subscribers beyond that are gravy. Not having universal carriage on streaming set tops from day one is irrelevant to their strategy. That guy just doesn't see what they are trying to do, even though it is pretty obvious.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

HBO Max launched lacking the new killer show/movie that would get the service trending like Disney+ did. That along with the lack of support for Roku and Amazon Fire TV pretty much has HBO Max playing catch up already.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

AngryManMLS said:


> HBO Max launched lacking the new killer show/movie that would get the service trending like Disney+ did. That along with the lack of support for Roku and Amazon Fire TV pretty much has HBO Max playing catch up already.


They need to air that show on the HBO main channel.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

AngryManMLS said:


> HBO Max launched lacking the new killer show/movie that would get the service trending like Disney+ did. That along with the lack of support for Roku and Amazon Fire TV pretty much has HBO Max playing catch up already.


Well to be fair HBO Max got hit by the COVID-19 pandemic which shut down the production of most of their originals. What they have in the can they have to ration out until production can resume. Like I mentioned in the other thread in the streaming forum, I don't think _Craftopia _was meant to be a leading launch program and given such a huge advertising push as it was.

Disney+ got to launch before the pandemic hit but its new original programming is drying up quick which is why Disney is accelerating movies to the platform that were intended for theaters or originally intended to have a longer life on home media and pay-per-view before hitting the platform.

WarnerMedia is having to space out what Max originals it has completed until production resumes. If it uses all its completed material up too soon it will have to siphon more content from DC Universe and possibly Cinemax (which WarnerMedia is trying as hard as possible to keep separate from HBO Max.) It appears the originals it launched with had to be key ones that were representative of each demographic the "Max Originals" were trying to expand upon from the HBO brand. It will be a wait and see game to see what they do if production doesn't open back up soon. They could always pull a Disney and make _Birds of Prey_ and _Scoob!_ available to HBO Max way earlier than intended.

Although I'm starting to think Peacock at this point will become an HBO Max situation or worse... it is 1 month and 14 days to its nationwide launch and we haven't heard a anything new from this bird yet.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

techguy88 said:


> You have to login to your DirecTV account to add the promotion. If your in the AT&T billing system your account is managed at att.com If your in the legacy DirecTV billing system you would go to directv.com
> 
> As long as you haven't had a recent promotion for HBO (such as a discount or some other kind of free trial) anyone above Family should be eligible according to their press release.


I followed your instructions through the convoluted ordering system (which was down yesterday) and discovered that I am not eligible for a three month free trial just the regular price at $14.99 I guess because I had a previous discount on HBO. Oh well I will wait for ATT to crawl back to me with a free offer as the startup has not exactly been a barnburner.


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

DirectMan said:


> *AT&T: The HBO Max Launch Was A Disaster*
> 
> https://seekingalpha.com/article/4350913-t-hbo-max-launch-was-disaster


'Disaster' may be too strong a word, but so far I have been underwhelmed.
None of the new content excites me and the catalog of movies/TV shows I've either seen multiple times already or have no interest in.
It's nowhere close to the fanfare that Disney+ had when it launched.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

RVD26 said:


> 'Disaster' may be too strong a word, but so far I have been underwhelmed.
> None of the new content excites me and the catalog of movies/TV shows I've either seen multiple times already or have no interest in.
> It's nowhere close to the fanfare that Disney+ had when it launched.


That site tried to quickly follow up with >> The HBO Max Launch Wasn't A Failure (NYSE:T) | Seeking Alpha

However Disney+ had _The Mandalorian_ and the Disney Vault films. If it didn't have those things the fanfare would have been hugely diminished. Excluding _The Mandalorian_ its slate of launch originals were also mixed and didn't get much fanfare.

HBO Max had to deal with COVID-19 which hurt its launch slate and most consumer review sites took that into account which this article did not. COVID-19 also hurt HBO Max's marketing (this is also going to affect Peacock as well.) In fact if you use Google Trends like that first article did Peacock is performing about the same as HBO Max. Peacock may see a bump in July when it launches like HBO Max did in May. HBO Max right now is relying heavily on already completed original HBO content more than what was initially planned and will stay this way until production ramps back up on the Max Originals.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

RVD26 said:


> 'Disaster' may be too strong a word, but so far I have been underwhelmed.
> None of the new content excites me and the catalog of movies/TV shows I've either seen multiple times already or have no interest in.
> It's nowhere close to the fanfare that Disney+ had when it launched.


They don't understand what AT&T is trying to accomplish. They don't care about building up a lot of HBO Max subscribers today, they want to insure the people who get HBO through their cable/satellite provider today will continue to subscribe to it via HBO Max if they cut the cord.

If they can just get everyone who pays for it today through their provider to continue paying for it tomorrow after they go streaming then it will be a success. Anyone who subscribes without a previous relationship is a bonus.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'd love to see an app on the DISH Hopper where one can pay AT&T directly for HBO. (Similar to Netflx.) DISH promoted subscribing directly to HBO last year when Game of Thrones started its last season. At this point I believe that is the only way HBO would be getting back on the DISH platform.

I can understand the desire to punish DISH for not giving in to the minimum number of subscriber demands, but at this point HBO would be better off getting subscribers wherever it can.


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## RVD26 (Oct 12, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> They don't understand what AT&T is trying to accomplish. They don't care about building up a lot of HBO Max subscribers today, they want to insure the people who get HBO through their cable/satellite provider today will continue to subscribe to it via HBO Max if they cut the cord.
> 
> If they can just get everyone who pays for it today through their provider to continue paying for it tomorrow after they go streaming then it will be a success. Anyone who subscribes without a previous relationship is a bonus.


If that truly is the thinking of AT&T, I think they are missing the mark.
HBO Max should be a companion service for current HBO subscribers or an option for current cord cutters.
Hoping most people will switch over to HBO Max after cutting the cord (those who had HBO in the first place) is a very risky bet, especially with all the other streaming options available now.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

James Long said:


> I'd love to see an app on the DISH Hopper where one can pay AT&T directly for HBO. (Similar to Netflx.) DISH promoted subscribing directly to HBO last year when Game of Thrones started its last season. At this point I believe that is the only way HBO would be getting back on the DISH platform.
> 
> I can understand the desire to punish DISH for not giving in to the minimum number of subscriber demands, but at this point HBO would be better off getting subscribers wherever it can.


and dish may want an finders fee for that


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

WarnerMedia Says Goodbye to HBO Go Amid Streaming Rebrand

HBO Go will be discontinued as of July 31, 2020. If you have an HBO subscription through DirecTV and want to stream HBO content you will have to use HBO Max.

HBO Now will be re-banded to simply "HBO" over the coming months. So if Roku and Amazon don't strike a deal for HBO Max by then their "HBO Now" apps will have a name change.

Apparently having HBO Go, HBO Now and HBO Max co-exist all at the same time has caused more confusion than anticipated. Who knew? Did you know?  *sarcasm*


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Att seems to think the more the better when all they needed was ONE thing to offer. HBO Max. That’s it. There is zero point in having more unless they are actually priced differently. 

I think the only thing keeping now around is amazon and Roku. If they fold and get max then I have a feeling it’ll be just max and the rest will be gone.

At this point HBO is HBO Max for anyone with DIRECTV or any other provider that’s signed on. It’s clear that’s where this is headed. Hopefully. 

HBO should be what you can get via the cable
Channels. HBO Max what you can get streaming. Buy cable service and get the streaming too. Done and done. How simple would that be?


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

I think it will get down to Max alone once all outstanding carriage agreements for HBO proper have run their course OR new renegotiated agreements are in place for Max to replace those current agreements for HBO proper still out there, whichever comes first. I am guessing that will come about around the same time as the ad supported version of Max rolls out, which obviously will either be free or at a much reduced cost.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

I watched an old episode of Friends on HBO Max last night and it had a 30 second commercial at the beginning of it.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

grover517 said:


> I think it will get down to Max alone once all outstanding carriage agreements for HBO proper have run their course OR new renegotiated agreements are in place for Max to replace those current agreements for HBO proper still out there, whichever comes first. I am guessing that will come about around the same time as the ad supported version of Max rolls out, which obviously will either be free or at a much reduced cost.


No way they go Max only, there are too many HBO customers who won't have fast enough broadband or are older and not willing/able to set up and use streaming. HBO delivered as channels will be with us for a long time to come.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I guess I am reading the post differently. I am not seeing that post as saying linear channels used by satellite and simple cable systems will not be available, only that when one gets streaming they get "HBO Max" with their MVPD cable/satellite subscription instead of a lesser bundle. I can see AT&T offering a "no streaming" option to very small cable systems (systems that would likely carry only a couple of the HBO channels such as private systems at apartment complexes). But as time goes on and cable systems renew their contract I can see "HBO with streaming" sold through a MVPD be access to HBO Max. Keep it simple.

Then again, this is AT&T. Simple isn't their middle name.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> I guess I am reading the post differently. I am not seeing that post as saying linear channels used by satellite and simple cable systems will not be available, only that when one gets streaming they get "HBO Max" with their MVPD cable/satellite subscription instead of a lesser bundle. I can see AT&T offering a "no streaming" option to very small cable systems (systems that would likely carry only a couple of the HBO channels such as private systems at apartment complexes). But as time goes on and cable systems renew their contract I can see "HBO with streaming" sold through a MVPD be access to HBO Max. Keep it simple.
> 
> Then again, this is AT&T. Simple isn't their middle name.


If that's what they meant I agree. I think everyone will get linear+streaming in short order. I don't think there's really any reason for HBO to wait for new contracts though, they can give it to them whenever they want. The only reason some may not have it for a while would be if their provider says "no". Which a few might if they are worried about anything that makes it a little easier to cut the cord (i.e. concern that they get used to streaming when they weren't before because of HBO Max, maybe they decide "hey I could get Netflix and Disney in addition to HBO for a lot less than what I'm paying for cable today")


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Give is usually easy ... charge more is harder. I assume the gift would come with a higher price tag/lower compensation for the MVPD or other changes such as minimum subscriber levels (ie: at least 10 percent of your MVPD subscribers must pay for HBO or you can't carry the content). It defies logic that AT&T/HBO would not be seeking every subscriber they can get and not turning away a million subscribers because it isn't 10% of a system's 11 million subscribers (or whatever the real numbers are). But having their own MVPD and vMVPD services may be emboldening them to make what I would consider a bad decision.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

James Long said:


> Then again, this is AT&T. Simple isn't their middle name.


Well their slogan is "More For Your Thing. That's Our Thing." They never said the "thing" had to be simple.


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## DirectMan (Jul 15, 2007)

I have the Choice Xtra Classic and I went to the ATT site today to see if there were any offers for me for HBO. Now they are showing the three free months offer. I will sign up maybe in September. Only problem I have is that my Samsung TV only shows HBO Go on the internet and my Firestick doesn't offer any HBO app. Maybe by the time I sign up ATT will have signed an agreement with Amazon.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

DirectMan said:


> I have the Choice Xtra Classic and I went to the ATT site today to see if there were any offers for me for HBO. Now they are showing the three free months offer. I will sign up maybe in September. Only problem I have is that my Samsung TV only shows HBO Go on the internet and my Firestick doesn't offer any HBO app. Maybe by the time I sign up ATT will have signed an agreement with Amazon.


Since Amazon decided to fork the Android Operating System to create FireOS it is very easy to sideload the Android TV version of the HBO Max app on any Fire TV device and it works. See this post.

I had an old 2nd Gen Fire TV Stick laying around that I don't use (except to experiment with side-loading) because the thing was dreadfully slow.

I was able to slideload the HBO Max app onto it with ease and it worked. (It was slow but that was due to the 2nd Gen Fire TV Stick that thing was slow when I got it in 2017 and it is slow now.)


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

techguy88 said:


> I had an old 2nd Gen Fire TV Stick laying around that I don't use (except to experiment with side-loading) because the thing was dreadfully slow.


If you are comfy with doing all this.... then that 2nd gen Fire Stick will run better.

Bootloader unlock for 2nd gen Fire TV stick:

[UNLOCK][ROOT][TWRP][UNBRICK] Fire TV Stick 2nd gen (tank)

The bootloader unlock (and rooting) will make it far easier to debloat and modify the Fire Stick so it can run faster.

Lineage 12.1 for Fire TV stick 2nd gen. Has some issues such as 5.1 audio not working on some apps but if you want a more pure Android TV experience:

[ROM] [unlocked] [tank] LineageOS 12.1


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> No way they go Max only, there are too many HBO customers who won't have fast enough broadband or are older and not willing/able to set up and use streaming. HBO delivered as channels will be with us for a long time to come.


Now will they do anything to make the MAX only stuff show up on directv? Even more so with att tv can do max on the same box.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

AngryManMLS said:


> If you are comfy with doing all this.... then that 2nd gen Fire Stick will run better.
> 
> Bootloader unlock for 2nd gen Fire TV stick:
> 
> ...


I gave up on the Fire TV Stick a few months after I got it rofl. However the nerd in me loves to experiment so I will probably do these things to it in my spare time. If I break it on accident it really is no loss (nor will I be eager to replace it.) I have an abundance of streaming devices due to my own preference to test things myself.



JoeTheDragon said:


> Now will they do anything to make the MAX only stuff show up on directv? Even more so with att tv can do max on the same box.


The "Max content" will be exclusive to the HBO Max app and website for all providers no matter of distribution method. This is the main reason Amazon & WarnerMedia is butting heads (and one of Roku's reasons) as they want to integrate the "Max content" into their Prime Video & The Roku Channel apps respectively. Roku's main reason however is the advertising & subscription revenue split with the "Max content" integration coming in second. This is why in media reports Roku is often toted as being "closer" to a deal than Amazon is.

DirecTV's set top boxes use a proprietary OS and apps built for D* hardware are most likely built from scratch. Most of the new apps that have come out (like the scaled down ESPN app and the bare bones Music Choice app) are only available to hardware running the Modern GUI. AT&T will probably look at those customers with Genies & any type of Genie Minis and see what % of customers have them connected to the Internet and how often they engage with the current Internet based apps. If the % is low AT&T (being cashed strapped as they are) most likely will not invest the R&D (and cash necessary) to make a HBO Max app for D*.

As far as new features for DirecTV the only new feature I am predicting that will come for D* customers will be Movies Anywhere integration. This feature appears to be in the final stages of implementation as the Modern GUI is starting to show the MA logo and the online guide has a Movies Anywhere filter.

AT&T TV is able to have the HBO Max app on the same box because the AT&T TV device is running the Android TV Operator Tier which has full access to the Google Play Store. As long as the app developer doesn't block the AT&T TV device, it can run any app in the Google Play Store that is compatible with Android TV OS 8.0 (aka Oreo). HBO Max is compatible with any Android TV device running Android TV 5 (aka Lollipop) or later.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

techguy88 said:


> AT&T TV is able to have the HBO Max app on the same box because the AT&T TV device is running the Android TV Operator Tier which has full access to the Google Play Store. As long as the app developer doesn't block the AT&T TV device, it can run any app in the Google Play Store that is compatible with Android TV OS 8.0 (aka Oreo). HBO Max is compatible with any Android TV device running Android TV 5 (aka Lollipop) or later.


It should be noted that while ATT TV app should be able to run on almost all AndroidTV devices, it isn't available for the most part.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

lparsons21 said:


> It should be noted that while ATT TV app should be able to run on almost all AndroidTV devices, it isn't available for the most part.


This is true however all Android TV devices including those on the Operator Tier have a built-in Chromecast so any app that supports Chromecast can work on those devices via the built-in Chromecast feature. I tested this out with my Nvidia Shield TV and with my home network it worked very well. Even casting the Hulu and Prime Video apps to the AT&T TV device worked very well.

Also if you are interested in side-loading you can side-load the Amazon Fire TV version of the AT&T TV app onto any Android TV device and it works very well. I did this with my Nvidia Shield TV as a test and AT&T TV Now worked very well . In the interest of fairness (or my general dislike of Amazon I can't tell the difference atm) you can side-load the Android TV version of the HBO Max app on a Fire TV device. (I find side-loading apps onto Fire TV devices to be easier surprisingly.)


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I don’t consider Chromecast or Airplay to be suitable alternatives to an actual app. Both are relatively poor in HDPQ and Audio. Not to mention that using them ties up a tablet or phone and sucks the battery pretty hard.

Side-loading on the Fire devices is dead simple if a bit tedious. IMO, the side-loaded, non-authorized HBO Max app on my FireTV actually works better than the official ATT TV app on the same device.

But my future use of a streamer will be Roku and AppleTV I suspect as both of their UI’s are better IMO. AppleTV’s weakness is the crappy remote, otherwise it is a great streaming platform that is well supported by practically everybody these days.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

For side-loading apps to an Amazon FireTV device I recommend adbLink.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

techguy88 said:


> The "Max content" will be exclusive to the HBO Max app and website for all providers no matter of distribution method. This is the main reason Amazon & WarnerMedia is butting heads (and one of Roku's reasons) as they want to integrate the "Max content" into their Prime Video & The Roku Channel apps respectively. Roku's main reason however is the advertising & subscription revenue split with the "Max content" integration coming in second. This is why in media reports Roku is often toted as being "closer" to a deal than Amazon is.
> 
> DirecTV's set top boxes use a proprietary OS and apps built for D* hardware are most likely built from scratch. Most of the new apps that have come out (like the scaled down ESPN app and the bare bones Music Choice app) are only available to hardware running the Modern GUI. AT&T will probably look at those customers with Genies & any type of Genie Minis and see what % of customers have them connected to the Internet and how often they engage with the current Internet based apps. If the % is low AT&T (being cashed strapped as they are) most likely will not invest the R&D (and cash necessary) to make a HBO Max app for D*.


They can make an channel with content , drop some on the hbo channels , use push VOD.


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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

b4pjoe said:


> For side-loading apps to an Amazon FireTV device I recommend adbLink.


Agreed. It's an incredibly capable and solid app---definitely worthy of support---and goes well beyond mere side-loading. I've been using this app on every android-based device I own, including my phone, tablet, and all of my Fire TV devices. I keep finding new uses for it...


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

JoeTheDragon said:


> They can make an channel with content , drop some on the hbo channels , use push VOD.


They can't do that with their current agreements for HBO Max and trying to go "Direct to Consumer" aka Netflix, Disney+ and Hulu in the streaming realm.

If they hypothetically turn some of the HBO channels into "HBO Max" channels and create a VOD channel for the "Max content" just for D* then all the other MVPDs & vMVPDs are going demand they be treated the same as D*. Apple will then want HBO back on the Apple TV Channels platform _with _the Max content and the associated live channels, Amazon & Roku will increase their demand that the "Max content" be integrated into their respective apps with those same live feeds. The whole point of keeping the "Max content" exclusive to the HBO Max app and website is because WarnerMedia wants to take HBO Max direct to consumer.

The only way D* will get any integrated solution is if the AT&T Communications and WarnerMedia engineers examine the Genie hardware lineup running the Modern GUI to see if it is even technologically possible with the various receiver tech specs and the proprietary OS to build a version of the HBO Max app for DirecTV hardware. TBH if AT&T and Dish could magically settle their dispute for HBO & Cinemax then building a version of the HBO Max app for Dish's Hopper hardware would probably be easier than the Genie hardware at that point.


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