# How well does your 921 handle OTA weak signals and signal reflections?



## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

I ordered a 921. It will be my first journey into digital OTA reception. Are there any "rules of thumb" describing what kind of digital reception I should expect given my current analog reception? For example:

If I receive the analog signal perfectly should I expect good digital reception of that channel?

If there is some snow on the analog signal (but no ghosting) should I expect some dropouts in the digital signal?

If there is some ghosting (but no snow) on the analog signal should I expect poor digital reception?

I realize that any answers here can't be scientific. There are some big, BIG variables that I am glossing over (different power levels, different frequencies, different receivers, my antenna, different transmitter locations, etc.), but I would like to know what your experiences have been when you made this transition. I'm trying to get a feel for the level of signal that the 921 expects and its apparent tolerance (or intolerance) of reflected signals.

I'll post my results when I get the 921. Here is what have today:

channel 3 - good, but has some interference/snow typical of low VHF (digital will be channel 2, ugh!)
channel 8 - perfect signal (digital will be channel 7)
channel 17 - good signal with very slight ghosts if you look real hard (digital will be channel 19)
channel 35 - good signal with slight ghosts when windy (digital will be channel 11)
channel 41 - good signal but very slight snow if you look hard (digital will be channel 20)
channel 43 - some snow due to long distance (digital will be channel 44)


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Jason Kragt said:


> I ordered a 921. It will be my first journey into digital OTA reception. Are there any "rules of thumb" describing what kind of digital reception I should expect given my current analog reception? For example:
> 
> If I receive the analog signal perfectly should I expect good digital reception of that channel?
> 
> ...


You have pretty much accurately answered your own questions.

If I receive the analog signal perfectly expect good digital reception of that channel.

If there is some snow on the analog signal (but no ghosting) expect some dropouts in the digital signal.

If there is some ghosting (but no snow) on the analog signal expect poor digital reception?


----------



## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

Jason Kragt said:


> I ordered a 921. It will be my first journey into digital OTA reception. Are there any "rules of thumb" describing what kind of digital reception I should expect given my current analog reception? For example:
> 
> If I receive the analog signal perfectly should I expect good digital reception of that channel?
> 
> ...


Jason,

I was very pleased with the OTA reception from my 921. With an old
antenna system that had been up 20 years (and not used the last 6 since
Dish started providing locals) I was able to get all the digital stations
from Nashville, TN and Huntsville, AL - however, with dropout on a
couple in bad weather. A new antenna system solved that. I was
even able to get one digital station "across the mountain" from Chattanooga,
TN. 
Digital signals are very sensitive to multipath (ghosting). Snow on
an analog signal will not appear on the digital signal - if the receiver
will lock on, reception is perfect. On the 921 signal bar you need at
least 70% signal for lock. At this level in good weather you will have 
signal losses in bad weather. I have 125 % (the max) on all but a
couple of stations with my new antenna system. There is a good 
discussion of antennas that will minimize multipath at:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/

See what you get with the antenna you have. If you need a better
antenna and want some advice, let me know.

Bruce


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

I don't think comparison between a given station's analog and digital can be used - many stations are NOT transmitting both their signals from the same location, and the digital transmission is usually at a much lower power - at least for now, and likely until they drop their analog transmission. This causes a Catch-22, doesn't it.


----------



## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

You guys ever get into the state where you are checking the signal strength of an OTA channel and you sort of lock-up the OTA tuner? Like you enter a channel number for a weak or missing channel and the 921 hangs for many seconds while it tries to tune the channel and you can't do anything during this time?

Hence, my experience is that it gets grumpy and doesn't do such a good job with a signal if it isn't able to consistently "lock" it in.


----------



## lionsrule (Nov 25, 2003)

Hey there Jason Kragt, 

I too am from west michigan (lawton/paw paw area). I currently have an 811 receiver and I am having a deep fringe preamp winegard antenna put up this friday for HD locals (3,8,17,41 hopefully!!) I've never hooked up an antenna to my 811 because I know an indoor type wouldn't produce anything. I will let you know how my 811 picks things up later this week.

BTW, anyone have any personal experience with comparing the 811 vs 921 ota tuner?


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Slordak said:


> You guys ever get into the state where you are checking the signal strength of an OTA channel and you sort of lock-up the OTA tuner? Like you enter a channel number for a weak or missing channel and the 921 hangs for many seconds while it tries to tune the channel and you can't do anything during this time?
> 
> Hence, my experience is that it gets grumpy and doesn't do such a good job with a signal if it isn't able to consistently "lock" it in.


Slordak, if you only knew how much I have the problem you are describing here in your post, you would want to take a baseball bat to your 921. To me this seems to be one of the bugs that persists with the OTA. It seems to me that everytime I go into the feature where I can check the signal strength, my 921 always ends up having to be rebooted anywhere from 30 minutes to 6 hours later.


----------



## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

I'm glad I'm not the only one. In some of these threads, whenever I describe some problems which I believe are common (i.e. not specific to my setup or geographic area), there are always a half dozen people who leap up and exclaim that their 921 works flawlessly and they have no idea what I'm talking about.

Again, I've learned to either not check the OTA signal strength, or use this feature very carefully and not accidentally enter a wrong digit!


----------



## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

lionsrule said:


> Hey there Jason Kragt,
> 
> I too am from west michigan (lawton/paw paw area). I currently have an 811 receiver and I am having a deep fringe preamp winegard antenna put up this friday for HD locals (3,8,17,41 hopefully!!) I've never hooked up an antenna to my 811 because I know an indoor type wouldn't produce anything. I will let you know how my 811 picks things up later this week.
> 
> BTW, anyone have any personal experience with comparing the 811 vs 921 ota tuner?


I think that you will be pleasantly surprised with 3, 8, 17 and 41 if you have a fringe antenna locked on the Gun Lake/Middleville area. I would like to hear if you also get 13, 35 or 43.

I decided to go with the "Royal 17" antenna, which is a three antenna combination specifically engineered for this area. All of the analogs, including 13 and 35 are coming in pretty good. 43 is iffy. I get the 921 on Monday so I should know how the digitals are then.

Back on topic, I think I read somewhere that the 811 does have a very sensitive tuner. The reviewer mentioned that it picked up stations better than the 921.


----------



## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

lionsrule said:


> Hey there Jason Kragt,
> 
> I too am from west michigan (lawton/paw paw area). I currently have an 811 receiver and I am having a deep fringe preamp winegard antenna put up this friday for HD locals (3,8,17,41 hopefully!!) I've never hooked up an antenna to my 811 because I know an indoor type wouldn't produce anything. I will let you know how my 811 picks things up later this week.
> 
> BTW, anyone have any personal experience with comparing the 811 vs 921 ota tuner?


Lionsrule, I was wondering how your new deep fringe with pre-amp antenna works?


----------



## lionsrule (Nov 25, 2003)

.......right at this moment, 2:07 pm, the installer is putting up "the biggest and best powered winegard" with an amped roter....I will let everyone know how well this works ASAP!!!


----------



## lionsrule (Nov 25, 2003)

OTA install is now done for me in West michigan. 

I get the following:

NBC (woodtv): 85-90% strength
ABC (wotv): 85-92%
FOX (wxmi): 85-92%
CBS (wwmt): 72-76%

All but CBS are UHF.....CBS is unfortunately low band VHF which is why (from what I've read online) it is the weakest of the 4 locals.

My Antenna is a LARGE WINEGARD with a powered roter and a booster.
The funny thing is that my signal strength for CBS actually went UP after I split the line from the OTA. (I tried it both ways: split and unsplit ...because I will now run the ota to my 2 analog sets. This will eventually lead the way to my cancelling my paying for the locals over my dishnetwork sat. (Which I will only do ONCE dish has a RELIABLE HD-DVR (I'm waiting to see how the next 2 software upgrades for the 921 "take")

I'm still fooling around with different degrees for the antenna to be set at. So far, I am VERY surprised at how far EAST it works the best at. I figured from where I am (2 miles south of paw paw) I'd be pointing it more in a NorthEast direction. As it stands now, it is pointed almost DIRECTLY east. Any local west michiganders have a theory??

Any other questions or comments....please ask!!


----------



## lionsrule (Nov 25, 2003)

BTW....I have an 811......


----------



## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

I live 50 miles from all of the towers in Dallas and recieve all OTA's perfectly, signal strength is 90 to 100 on all. I also have had NO OTA recording issues or losses in Months. I did add a high end channel master amplifier to my roof top OTA antenna which could account for my good signals and few problems.


----------



## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

When you face Northeast, Chicago is directly behind you. West Michigan's digital signals are on the same channel as many of Chicago's analog stations. Perhaps those analog signals are entering from the rear and lowering the quality of the digital signals ahead. The only other possibility I can think of is a signal reflection.


----------

