# 1920 x 1080 vs 1920 x 800??



## sodina (Apr 29, 2009)

as you probably know, directv is showing hbo for everyone 
until i dont know.
i was watching golden compass on channel 501 and it was being
shown in full screen (1920 x 1080).
i remember watching this in bluray, and it was 1920 x 800 with the
black bars at the top & bottom.
i was wondering why would they differ?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Because of OAR 2.35:1; now someone did a "favor" for you - distort original OAR to eliminating the "annoying" black bars !
:down:


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

HBO, along with virtually every other TV network, will crop 2.35:1 (i.e., Cinescope) aspect-ratio movies down to 1.77:1 so that the movie will fill the screen. It's more or less the same thing that TV networks have always done with movies, but obviously not as bad as going from 2:35:1 to 1.33:1, as they used to do for SDTV.



























An example of "pan & scan" used to show widescreen movies on 4x3 TVs.









Scene from I-Robot DVD in 2.35:1









Same scene cropped by HBO to 1.77:1

A 16x9 TV = 1.77:1 aspect ratio, which is extremely close to the 1.85:1 used for most comedies and dramas. "Epics" and special effects movies are more typically shot in "super-wide" 2.35:1, and when presented in their original aspect ratio (OAR), will have black bars on top and bottom even on a widescreen TV.

The problem for HBO and other networks is that customers often complain about the black bars, believing that HD movies "should fill the screen" because "we paid for this expensive HDTV." Because of those pressures, they crop the sides off and zoom in to fill the screen.


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

It's a shame they do that, because the higher resolution and color depth of HDTV allows the picture to remain crisp and viewable even when the entire image is presented with the black bars at top and bottom.

It seems like only HDNet Movies and IFC (which we don't get in HD) are pretty faithful to the original aspect ratio.


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## sodina (Apr 29, 2009)

oh, i see.
thanks for quick replies.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

BattleZone said:


> *HBO, along with virtually every other TV network, will crop 2.35:1 (i.e., Cinescope) aspect-ratio movies down to 1.77:1 so that the movie will fill the screen*. It's more or less the same thing that TV networks have always done with movies, but obviously not as bad as going from 2:35:1 to 1.33:1, as they used to do for SDTV ....
> 
> ...A 16x9 TV = 1.77:1 aspect ratio, which is extremely close to the 1.85:1 used for most comedies and dramas. "Epics" and special effects movies are more typically shot in "super-wide" 2.35:1, and when presented in their original aspect ratio (OAR), will have black bars on top and bottom even on a widescreen TV.
> 
> The problem for HBO and other networks is that customers often complain about the black bars, believing that HD movies "should fill the screen" because "we paid for this expensive HDTV." Because of those pressures, they crop the sides off and zoom in to fill the screen.


Some movies are actually broadcast by DirecTV's 1920 x 1080 premium channels in their wide-screen cinema OAR of 2.35-to-1 as indicated by the letterboxed (at ~24% black matte bars) picture. This is particularly so for various films presented on the ShowTime HD channels I notice.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Some movies are actually broadcast by DirecTV's 1920 x 1080 premium channels in their wide-screen cinema OAR of 2.35-to-1 as indicated by the letterboxed (at ~24% black matte bars) picture. This is particularly so for various films presented on the ShowTime HD channels I notice.


True, but unfortunately that's the exception. I wish it were the rule. I hate cropped movies; always have. At least with OAR, someone with a widescreen TV will have format options to adjust the picture (zoom in) if they want their screen filled. When it's cropped, the cropped information is just gone.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

If only the plasma and CRT wonks didn't scream bloody murder when there is any black margin on the screen.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

There was bloody scream about compression and what ? It's become worst, especially for SD channels !


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

BattleZone said:


> True, but unfortunately that's the exception. I wish it were the rule. I hate cropped movies; always have. At least with OAR, someone with a widescreen TV will have format options to adjust the picture (zoom in) if they want their screen filled. When it's cropped, the cropped information is just gone.


I am generalizing, I know, but IMO, it's the people who are least familiar with the options and ability to zoom that want their screen filled... Which is unfortunate for you and I...


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

Thaedron said:


> I am generalizing, I know, but IMO, it's the people who are least familiar with the options and ability to zoom that want their screen filled... Which is unfortunate for you and I...


As with many things in life, the TV networks often kowtow to the ignorant and ignore the smart folk.


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## dorfd1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Tom Servo said:


> It's a shame they do that, because the higher resolution and color depth of HDTV allows the picture to remain crisp and viewable even when the entire image is presented with the black bars at top and bottom.
> 
> It seems like only HDNet Movies and IFC (which we don't get in HD) are pretty faithful to the original aspect ratio.


Hdnet movies is in hd.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dorfd1 said:


> Hdnet movies is in hd.


Bold statement giving nothing beside words.
Post when you'll have a proof: bitrate, resolution, GOP ratio, etc from your receiver.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

sodina said:


> as you probably know, directv is showing hbo for everyone
> until i dont know.
> i was watching golden compass on channel 501 and it was being
> shown in full screen (1920 x 1080).
> ...


Um, the resolution was the same on both formats.. Its just the way they where cropped, and because I don't know what processed they used to crop the film, you may or may not have lost some resolution when its OAR was not kept for the HBO showing...


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Um, the resolution was the same on both formats.. Its just the way they where cropped, and because I don't know what processed they used to crop the film, you may or may not have lost some resolution when its OAR was not kept for the HBO showing...


Well... theoretically there shouldn't be any loss in resolution here, just picture cropped. However I do agree that it does rather suck to have the picture cropped some 24% this way in going from an OAR of 2.35.1--->1.78 (16x9). And for me personally there is an additional cost in that the HDTV I frequently use in the bedroom here (a Samsung SyncMaster T260HD) is a derivative of a computer monitor series with an actual aspect ratio of 16:10. Therefore to fill the entire screen I must sacrifice an additional 10% (5% to either side) of the image to crop it from 16:9--->16:10.

Thus the sum total of my loss in the horizontal dimension of the picture going from an aspect ratio of 2.35---->1.6 is ~32% (+/- 15.1% to either side)

Not good... :nono2:


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

P Smith said:


> There was bloody scream about compression and what ? It's become worst, especially for SD channels !


Ummm, that's because compression is a *bad* thing. Black bars are generally a good thing, because they mean that the OAR of the content has been preserved.


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## racermd (Dec 18, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Ummm, that's because compression is a *bad* thing. Black bars are generally a good thing, because they mean that the OAR of the content has been preserved.


Also, less compression needs to be done on the main parts of the picture since the black bars tend to change very little (less motion = fewer bits in the stream used to track them).


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Bold statement giving nothing beside words.
> Post when you'll have a proof: bitrate, resolution, GOP ratio, etc from your receiver.


It's right in the name of the channel! *HD*Net Movies.

:nono2:


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## Tom Servo (Mar 7, 2007)

dorfd1 said:


> Hdnet movies is in hd.


Yes. But IFC is _available _in HD but we don't get it. I was just pointing out two channels that tend to preserve the original aspect ratio more often than not. When they show a 2.35:1 film on IFC SD and you view it on an HDTV you get a tiny rectangle of a picture surrounded by black. :lol:


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