# Dish FSN (Sinclair owned) dispute - Channels Down



## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Looks like dish and FSN may have a dispute coming

Don't Let DISH & Sling Drop Fox Regional Sports Networks Nationwide!

This would effect local sports in a lot of markets ...

So may disputes this summer 

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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

FSN is going to need to step up and keep the rate reasonable. This whole pay TV model is just getting out of control.



dtv757 said:


> Looks like dish and FSN may have a dispute coming
> 
> Don't Let DISH & Sling Drop Fox Regional Sports Networks Nationwide!
> 
> ...


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

, JULY 22
DISH AND SLING Will drop Fox sports south and Fox sports southeast fox sports Tennessee if this ends up like HBO im dumping dish


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Yea all this "cord cutting " and broadcasting disputes are getting out of hand 


Even DirecTV in a fight with CBS and Nexstar 

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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Is Sinclair fully in charge of these FSN’s yet? If so, I wonder how thats affecting this negotiation now, and I wonder how its going to affect future negotiations with other FSN’s?


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Is Sinclair fully in charge of these FSN's yet? If so, I wonder how thats affecting this negotiation now, and I wonder how its going to affect future negotiations with other FSN's?


I think next year Sinclair takes over

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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Affected:
Fox Sports Arizona
Fox Sports Carolinas
Fox Sports Detroit
Fox Sports Florida
Fox Sports Indiana
Fox Sports Kansas City
Fox Sports Midwest
Fox Sports New Orleans
Fox Sports North
Fox Sports Ohio
Fox Sports Oklahoma
Fox Sports Prime Ticket
Fox Sports San Diego
Fox Sports South
Fox Sports Southeast
Fox Sports Southwest
Fox Sports Sun
Fox Sports Tennessee
Fox Sports West
Fox Sports Wisconsin
SportsTime Ohio


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

dtv757 said:


> I think next year Sinclair takes over


Don't forget for the subs in Cubs territory...I GUARANTEE you that Sinclair's new Marquee network, WILL also figure into these negotiations...


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/dish-faces-multiple-outages-carriage-contracts-disney-fox-sports-1203274496

There is more forthcoming... shortly there will be FX and National Geographic (owned now by Disney - maybe the connection for Dish to get ACC Network) and also a separate deadline for Fox News, Fox Business, Fox Owned and Operated channels and Fox Sports 1.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

dtv757 said:


> Yea all this "cord cutting " and broadcasting disputes are getting out of hand
> 
> Even DirecTV in a fight with CBS and Nexstar
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I think Dish, Direct, cable all need to come to some compromise, in regard to pricing. If the service wants to raise the price, try to get the best deal without dropping the channel(s). If they cannot, give in a just up the price for the package. No one wants to pay more, but we do all of the time anyway. Dropping channels just ticks off customers, and with so many streaming, satellite, cable options, the consumer can go anywhere and many are. Who knows how many subs Dish lost with the HBO/Cinemax thing? I know of a few that moved to Direct TV around here. This dropping channels is a lose lose situation. The viewer is sick of it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

zippyfrog said:


> https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/dish-faces-multiple-outages-carriage-contracts-disney-fox-sports-1203274496


"These networks, which were sold to Walt Disney by the former 21st Century Fox as part of a larger deal and are slated to be sold to other parties in the next few months, are under Disney's control at present, but are slated to be transferred to various buyers in coming weeks, and an interim group is overseeing carriage negotiations, according to a person familiar with the matter."

I wonder who the interim group is? I'd expect them to be more closely tied to the new owners than the old since ABC/Disney will be giving control of most of the channels Sinclair in the next few weeks. The YES renewal is interesting since it is currently carried on Sling TV but not DISH satellite.

Every contract comes up for renewal from time to time. Most renewals are negotiated and approved with no public "dispute". Sometimes the only way we know a channel is renewed is because of an announcement.

ABC/Disney's negotiations over FX and Nat Geo may include ACC. If it means getting the new network at a reasonable price that could be good ... but if it means holding FX and Nat Geo hostage until DISH pays extortion it could be bad.

The other Fox contract renewal (O&O stations and FNC/FBC/FS1) could be a problem. The networks continue to want more for their broadcast stations. But deals have been reached in the past.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mwdxer said:


> If the service wants to raise the price, try to get the best deal without dropping the channel(s). If they cannot, give in a just up the price for the package.


There needs to be a limit ... otherwise the channel providers would simply set whatever price they want ($40 for ESPN?) and following the rule you wrote, DISH would pay.

The negotiations begin with the channel asking for more than they will get and DISH asking to pay as close to the existing cost as possible (if not less if there is a reason why the current cost is too high). The negotiations should end when both parties consider the agreement to be reasonable. Forcing DISH to accept whatever is on the table at the moment the contract expires to avoid a channel drop only leads to much higher rates.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

James Long said:


> There needs to be a limit ... otherwise the channel providers would simply set whatever price they want ($40 for ESPN?) and following the rule you wrote, DISH would pay.
> 
> The negotiations begin with the channel asking for more than they will get and DISH asking to pay as close to the existing cost as possible (if not less if there is a reason why the current cost is too high). The negotiations should end when both parties consider the agreement to be reasonable. Forcing DISH to accept whatever is on the table at the moment the contract expires to avoid a channel drop only leads to much higher rates.


I can't see for example ESPN for $40, as the programmers must realize that if the price gets up too high, ESPN will have less people viewing it as people would never continue to sub to a service. There must be a compromise somewhere.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

That is the trouble. If ABC/ESPN/Disney says $40 is reasonable and DISH says $4 is reasonable who is right? Neither party? Then where is the price set? $22 since that is the average? A negotiation tactic where a provider "never drops a channel" quickly turns in to paying whatever the channel asks to avoid contract expiration.

If ESPN entered the negotiation with a "never be dropped" policy then DISH would have the upper hand. Accept $2 per month or we'll drop your channels. ESPN would need to be deathly afraid of losing subscriber count to accept that offer ... so they would not enter the room with a "never be dropped" policy. Just like DISH does not enters the room with a "never drops a channel" policy. Neither policy works.

$40 is an exaggeration ... but what about $20 or $10? At some point the ask price will be too much to continue carriage of the channel. Yes, there must be a compromise - but who is to say that it will be met by the end of the current contract? It is frustrating to have brief outages - sometimes more frustrating then the longer outages. With a short outage the thought is "couldn't they come to an agreement a week or two earlier and avoided the brief outage?" But with a longer outage it is more obvious that the parties were further apart.

DISH vs Univision was a longer outage which was eventually resolved with the restoration of the channels. Details not disclosed (of course) but either a) DISH lost too many Latino package subscribers and needed the content back or b) Univision saw the value in DISH distribution and needed the subscriber count. Either way the compromise came months later.

DISH vs HBO ended in a stalemate. AT&T|HBO threw down the gauntlet and told DISH to try to run their service without HBO - or pay HBO for a minimum number of subscribers that was higher than the number of customers willing to pay for HBO. DISH called --- and over the past few months (including the all important GoT airings and Veep final season) DISH got to find out if they could run their service without HBO. Apparently, they can. And HBO seems to be doing OK without the money they would have collected via DISH.

I hope that the Fox negotiation goes well but the deadline is approaching. Perhaps a "short term" deal can be reached considering the pending transfer of ownership. We'll see.


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

According to DISH Promise | MyDISH | DISH Customer Support, it is FX, FXX, FXM, Nat Geo, Nat Geo Wild, and Nat Geo Mundo. Are there any other channels that Disney obtained from Fox that are not listed there?

I was surprised that in the Fox News, Fox Business and Fox Sports 1 that nowhere Fox Sports 2 or Big 10 network were mentioned. Those must be on yet another contract cycle.


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

Maybe I'm missing something but, for example, doesn't CBS and NBC etc charge say Geiko and General Motors and McDonald's etc for the commercial advertising? I assume that there is a substantial profit there. Of course perhaps they are showing these commercials at a loss and need to make it up by raising rates to satellite and cable companies. Isn't the main goal to get programming as well as commercials in front of the customer? You know, the folks that actually might buy that product? You know, the reason that you actually exist. FWIW, I get all of my locals off my antenna for free. Go figure.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Broadcasters charge any way they can. Do you think CBS is charging advertisers less since their O&O channels (and a couple others) are not on DIRECTV? They are still collecting their advertising money. And they are probably downplaying the impact of losing DIRECTV distribution - correctly noting that the majority of viewers can still watch OTA or via other subscription services. What CBS is losing is the $ per DIRECTV subscriber. They are still getting their advertising and affiliation revenue.


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

You've made my point. They should be paying us to watch their content. No viewers equals no buyers equals no advertising money.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The point is that CBS has plenty of viewers without DIRECTV. Being off of DIRECTV isn't a huge effect on the bottom line. They are no where near the "no viewers" line by not being on DIRECTV.

Slippery slope that argument and claim that CBS will pull their channels off of all subscription services other than the ones they own. Perhaps they will some day. If they do it will be because they make more money distributing the content themselves than through other distributors. But that is not today's plan.

Pay viewers to watch? What are you drinking and are you sharing?


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

When you say that CBS has plenty of viewers you are going down the slippery slope. Unless you have some inside information on what CBS considers plenty of viewers then you are imposing what you consider plenty of viewers on CBS. I would think that losing tens of millions of viewers might mean something to the advertisers that spend millions of dollars advertising with CBS.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Andrew Sullivan said:


> I would think that losing tens of millions of viewers might mean something to the advertisers that spend millions of dollars advertising with CBS.


Where do you get the idea that CBS has "tens of millions" of viewers via DIRECTV? That is where you are in error. We are talking about CBS O&O stations, not the full DIRECTV subscriber base but only subscribers in certain markets. And those markets are cities where most of the population has alternatives such as OTA readily available.

CBS is not dependent on DIRECTV for all of its viewership. I think you know that.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

One small thing to keep in mind att (DirecTV and u verse ) is the largest tv provider in the USA . So combined millions are affected. 


I think most o&o stations are in huge metro areas (nyc, philly, la etc ) 

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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

I don't know how many customers are affected but I would guess it's a substantial number considering the populations of the cities involved. Miami, SanFrancisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Denver, Chicago, Philly, Detroit, Dallas, Seattle, Boston, Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. Maybe not tens of millions but certainly a certainly a large chunk of viewers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

What people seem to be forgetting is that the CBS outage does not cover every DIRECTV or UVERSE customer. The CBS broadcast network did not lose "25 million" viewers when they left DIRECTV.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I do not believe Sinclair bought all of the FSN channels. I thought that our Fox Sports Southwest was not in the package...perhaps I'm wrong.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jim5506 said:


> I do not believe Sinclair bought all of the FSN channels. I thought that our Fox Sports Southwest was not in the package...perhaps I'm wrong.


Sinclair got 21 of the 22 networks sold. YES is the 22nd network (the Yankees are buying the 80% stake in YES that Disney owned - Backed by Sinclair and Amazon).

Fox Sports Southwest, TV home of Stars, Rangers and Mavs, among stations being sold to Sinclair | Sports Business | Dallas News


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

FOX Sports Regional Networks

As of this morning, this site says that Dish has reached a short term extension as they work towards a carriage agreement.

I also saw FX, FXX, Nat Geo, etc. are still on as of this morning, although I don't see anything on Dish's site that says an extension was reached.


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## BreadDawg (Sep 12, 2016)

yep just just checked my Dish Anywhere app and my Fox Sports RSN is on there. We'll see how long it stays.


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## zippyfrog (Jul 14, 2010)

Sling TV & Dish Have Reportedly Agreed to a Temporary Extension With Disney For Fox RSNs, FX, & National Geographic - Cord Cutters News

Looks like Disney extended short term until Sinclair takes over the RSN's. I don't know when the take over of the RSN's will occur though.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I believe Disney had 90 days to divest. The Sinclair deal was announced May 3th. I'd say it is a matter of weeks before Sinclair takes over.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

I believe we are in a transition period where a network like CBS is not going to give in to Directv, DISH. As more people are willing to stream, CBS is set and ready for that to be a prominent way to watch them. Not everyone has the ability to stream and do depend on Satellite for TV. But I don't think the numbers are enough for CBS to worry, it's becoming DISH and Directv who need them more to keep customers. The four Networks are still the most watched TV in prime time.
Remember, their model is if you watch CBS all access you are watching your own local CBS, ads and all.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

tampa8 said:


> I believe we are in a transition period where a network like CBS is not going to give in to Directv, DISH. As more people are willing to stream, CBS is set and ready for that to be a prominent way to watch them. Not everyone has the ability to stream and do depend on Satellite for TV. But I don't think the numbers are enough for CBS to worry, it's becoming DISH and Directv who need them more to keep customers. The four Networks are still the most watched TV in prime time.
> Remember, their model is if you watch CBS all access you are watching your own local CBS, ads and all.


Agreed. CBS holds the cards here with football coming.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

Sinclair is acquiring the following RSNs: for 10.6 Billion dollars beating out Liberty media for Fox Sports Arizona, Fox Sports Detroit, Fox Sports Florida, Fox Sports Sun, Fox Sports North, Fox Sports Wisconsin, Fox Sports Ohio, SportsTime Ohio, Fox Sports South, Fox Sports Carolina, Fox Sports Tennessee, Fox Sports Southeast, Fox Sports Southwest, Fox Sports Oklahoma, Fox Sports New Orleans, Fox Sports Midwest, Fox Sports Kansas City, Fox Sports Indiana, Fox Sports San Diego, Fox Sports West, and Prime Ticket.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

tampa8 said:


> I believe we are in a transition period where a network like CBS is not going to give in to Directv, DISH. As more people are willing to stream, CBS is set and ready for that to be a prominent way to watch them. Not everyone has the ability to stream and do depend on Satellite for TV. But I don't think the numbers are enough for CBS to worry, it's becoming DISH and Directv who need them more to keep customers. The four Networks are still the most watched TV in prime time.
> Remember, their model is if you watch CBS all access you are watching your own local CBS, ads and all.


Add to that many that get their CBS station OTA. Here, Meredith stations are gone off Dish, but i get one of them with subs OTA.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Same here - both Meredith stations (one is the local CBS, which we watch alot) off Dish for the moment, but I can watch them OTA.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

tampa8 said:


> Remember, their model is if you watch CBS all access you are watching your own local CBS, ads and all.


Interestingly, that's not always the case. We moved our RV from southern VT to upstate NY yesterday, and using our AT&T cell hotspot Internet service, CBS All-Access gives us the Boston station, and our Verizon service gives us the NYC station. Only if we stream with our cottage Spectrum service do we get the correct Albany, NY station. As we travel, it's always a guessing game to see which stations we'll get where.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The goal is to deliver the correct station for the location. The execution can be lacking.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

James Long said:


> The goal is to deliver the correct station for the location. The execution can be lacking.


Oh, there's no question what the goal is... The oddity is as you say, in the execution. Given the variables of Internet routing, it's a wonder that geofencing is only as inaccurate as it is.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Drat!

*61 changes seen 7/26/19 at 11:52am ET (v25)*

*Channels Renamed*
411 PRIME Prime Sports renamed INFO Prime Sports (110° TP 9 SD Hidden)
411 PRIME Prime Sports renamed INFO Prime Sports (72.7° TP 25 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
415 FOXAZ FOX Arizona renamed INFO FOX Arizona (119° TP 16 SD Hidden)
415 FOXAZ FOX Arizona renamed INFO FOX Arizona (72.7° TP 9 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
416 FOXSW FOX Southwest renamed INFO FOX Southwest (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
416 FOXSW FOX Southwest renamed INFO FOX Southwest (72.7° TP 7 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
417 FOXW FOX West renamed INFO FOX West (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
417 FOXW FOX West renamed INFO FOX West (72.7° TP 5 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
418 FOXMW FOX Midwest renamed INFO FOX Midwest (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
418 FOXMW FOX Midwest renamed INFO FOX Midwest (72.7° TP 7 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
420 FOXS FOX South renamed INFO FOX South (119° TP 16 SD Hidden)
420 FOXS FOX South renamed INFO FOX South (72.7° TP 7 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
422 SUN Sun Sports renamed INFO Sun Sports (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
422 SUN Sun Sports renamed INFO Sun Sports (72.7° TP 7 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
423 FOXFL FOX Florida renamed INFO FOX Florida (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
423 FOXFL FOX Florida renamed INFO FOX Florida (72.7° TP 5 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
425 FOXOH FOX Ohio renamed INFO FOX Ohio (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
425 FOXOH FOX Ohio renamed INFO FOX Ohio (72.7° TP 5 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
427 FOXCN FOX Cincinnati renamed INFO FOX Cincinnati (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
427 FOXCN FOX Cincinnati renamed INFO FOX Cincinnati (72.7° TP 9 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
430 FOXD FOX Detroit renamed INFO FOX Detroit (119° TP 17 SD Hidden)
430 FOXD FOX Detroit renamed INFO FOX Detroit (72.7° TP 15 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
430 FOXD FOX Detroit renamed INFO FOX Detroit (77° TP 11 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
431 STO Sports Time Ohio renamed INFO Sports Time Ohio (119° TP 8 SD Hidden)
431 STO Sports Time Ohio renamed INFO Sports Time Ohio (72.7° TP 9 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
436 FOXN FOX North renamed INFO FOX North (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
436 FOXN FOX North renamed INFO FOX North (72.7° TP 9 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
437 FOXSE FOX Southeast renamed INFO FOX Southeast (110° TP 9 SD Hidden)
437 FOXSE FOX Southeast renamed INFO FOX Southeast (72.7° TP 25 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
439 FOXSD FOX San Diego renamed INFO FOX San Diego (119° TP 10 SD Hidden)
439 FOXSD FOX San Diego renamed INFO FOX San Diego (72.7° TP 5 SD MPEG4 Hidden)
5411 PRIME Prime Sports renamed INFO Info Channel (411 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5411 PRIME Prime Sports renamed INFO Info Channel (411 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5415 FOXAZ FOX Arizona renamed INFO Info Channel (415 HD) (129° TP 26 HD Hidden)
5415 FOXAZ FOX Arizona renamed INFO Info Channel (415 HD) (72.7° TP 4 HD Hidden)
5416 FOXSW FOX Southwest renamed INFO Info Channel (416 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5416 FOXSW FOX Southwest renamed INFO Info Channel (416 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5417 FOXW FOX West renamed INFO Info Channel (417 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5417 FOXW FOX West renamed INFO Info Channel (417 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5418 FOXMW FOX Midwest renamed INFO Info Channel (418 HD) (129° TP 26 HD Hidden)
5418 FOXMW FOX Midwest renamed INFO Info Channel (418 HD) (72.7° TP 4 HD Hidden)
5420 FOXS FOX South renamed INFO Info Channel (420 HD) (129° TP 26 HD Hidden)
5420 FOXS FOX South renamed INFO Info Channel (420 HD) (72.7° TP 4 HD Hidden)
5422 SUN Sun Sports renamed INFO Info Channel (422 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5422 SUN Sun Sports renamed INFO Info Channel (422 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5423 FOXFL FOX Florida renamed INFO Info Channel (423 HD) (129° TP 26 HD Hidden)
5423 FOXFL FOX Florida renamed INFO Info Channel (423 HD) (72.7° TP 4 HD Hidden)
5425 FOXOH FOX Ohio renamed INFO Info Channel (425 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5425 FOXOH FOX Ohio renamed INFO Info Channel (425 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5427 FOXCN FOX Cincinnati renamed INFO Info Channel (427 HD) (129° TP 26 HD Hidden)
5427 FOXCN FOX Cincinnati renamed INFO Info Channel (427 HD) (72.7° TP 4 HD Hidden)
5430 FOXD FOX Detroit renamed INFO Info Channel (430 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5430 FOXD FOX Detroit renamed INFO Info Channel (430 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5431 STO Sports Time Ohio renamed INFO Info Channel (431 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5431 STO Sports Time Ohio renamed INFO Info Channel (431 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5436 FOXN FOX North renamed INFO Info Channel (436 HD) (129° TP 26 HD Hidden)
5436 FOXN FOX North renamed INFO Info Channel (436 HD) (72.7° TP 4 HD Hidden)
5437 FOXSE FOX Southeast renamed INFO Info Channel (437 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5437 FOXSE FOX Southeast renamed INFO Info Channel (437 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)
5439 FOXSD FOX San Diego renamed INFO Info Channel (439 HD) (110° TP 14 HD Hidden)
5439 FOXSD FOX San Diego renamed INFO Info Channel (439 HD) (72.7° TP 10 HD Hidden)

10293 Channels


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH Promise | MyDISH | DISH Customer Support

We are currently experiencing a dispute with FOX Regional Sports Networks, currently owned by The Walt Disney Company, and your programming is impacted by these negotiations. We understand missing your favorite team play is very frustrating.

The fact is, only FOX Regional Sports Networks can choose to remove their content from DISH customers. FOX Regional Sports Networks are asking for an unreasonable price increase, by asking subscribers to pay for sports channels that they may not even receive.

The fact is, sports are the most expensive programming out there, and players' salaries have increased in recent years. That money has to come from somewhere, making sports the most expensive part of customer's bills. As networks, like FOX Regional Sports Networks, make risky investments on expensive sports rights, they are looking to make back that money with increasing prices, reflecting right on your bill.

DISH made every attempt to extend the contract so our customers would not be impacted but FOX Regional Sports Networks refused this offer. We appreciate your patience while we continue to work with FOX Regional Sports Networks to bring back your channels.

*When will my access to my FOX Regional Sports Network return?*
These channels will return as soon as our deal is accepted or extended by FOX Regional Sports Networks. Our ask is to continue to negotiate with FOX Regional Sports Network in private while you still have access to your channel. We continue to ask FOX Regional Sports Networks for the ability to do so, and to restore their channel.


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## Andrew Sullivan (Dec 7, 2017)

The whole problem with all of these disputes, DirecTV or Dish or Cox or Comcast. How do we, the subscribers, know who to believe? It's all your fault. No it's all your fault. What? CBS, you say you need a increase of how much? Why? OK that's reasonable. OK that's not reasonable. Somebody needs to decide what is reasonable. Arbitrator please. It's not rocket science. Is the cost increase justified or isn't it? When you choose arbitration you agree to abide by the arbitrators decision. The end customer, us, will decide if we want to continue as subscribers. Simple.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

I’ll be downgrading to flex pack till this is solved i usually wait till baseball season is over to downgrade but my disposable income for entertainment is small being on a fixed income and all pay TV services are getting outrageous pricey and if I go to streaming only being a internet only customer they hit me with the data cap .


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

It sounds like an "HBO" agreement, asking Dish to pay for channels the customer cannot receive. I just don't see that as legal, but I am not a lawyer.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

I saw this on an FSN facebook page









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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH & Sling Have Dropped Fox Regional Sports Networks Nationwide!
"As of 9:00am Pacific Time, Friday, July 26, DISH and Sling no longer carry any of the 21 FOX Sports Regional Networks. The FOX RSNs offered to extend DISH and Sling under the current terms of our existing agreement, but DISH and Sling rejected our offer. We know fans are looking forward to the broadcasts during the stretch run of baseball season, and we hope DISH and Sling act to return this programming to their customers."


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## epokopac (Aug 8, 2007)

From Dish:

DISH made every attempt to extend the contract so our customers would not be impacted but FOX Regional Sports Networks refused this offer.

From Fox:

The FOX RSNs offered to extend DISH and Sling under the current terms of our existing agreement, but DISH and Sling rejected our offer.

So ... who's lying?

MLB EI has the games except for my Braves games.
MLB EI, ESPN, ESPN2, FS1, FS2, MLB Network, Local Fox will have to do for now.


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

epokopac said:


> From Dish:
> 
> DISH made every attempt to extend the contract so our customers would not be impacted but FOX Regional Sports Networks refused this offer.
> 
> ...


and there's another option, but it's pretty much watching a stream that is illegal, but it's only illegal to the streamer, not the watcher (for now, until the government make laws to where watching a live illegal stream is the same as downloading music or movies illegally, which means jail time or lawsuit.) but i wouldn't recommend it.


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## epokopac (Aug 8, 2007)

I have plenty of other teams I follow via MLB EI. I can get the Braves recap on MLB Network Quick Pitch. Forgot to add TBS to the channel list for baseball on Sunday afternoons.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

epokopac said:


> I have plenty of other teams I follow via MLB EI. I can get the Braves recap on MLB Network Quick Pitch. Forgot to add TBS to the channel list for baseball on Sunday afternoons.


But if braves are his home team , I would bet he would want to watch them.

Local teams are blackout on mlb.tv and the away feed is also blacked out .

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## sparky27 (Jun 25, 2019)

Well I hope Dish gets this squared away before NCAA football and basketball season...one of the reasons I returned to paytv was for the sports!


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

epokopac said:


> From Dish:
> 
> DISH made every attempt to extend the contract so our customers would not be impacted but FOX Regional Sports Networks refused this offer.
> 
> ...


Well FOX Sports is running radio spots here in Cleveland telling Dish subscribers to switch providers. I call that extortion on the part of FOX/Disney. So I believe Dish and don't believe FOX/Disney.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Michael P said:


> Well FOX Sports is running radio spots here in Cleveland telling Dish subscribers to switch providers. I call that extortion on the part of FOX/Disney. So I believe Dish and don't believe FOX/Disney.


That happens with every dispute , saying to switch providers .

My local Nextstar stations are saying to switch providers etc .

And last december when Nextstar was in dispute with the local cable co they ran a scroll to switch to D*

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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Then the next dispute, change providers again, and then again...This gets crazy. I guess until the government steps in, we will have to roll with the punches. If you have streaming, you can always get the channels that way to get you by, until the contracts are settled. There are no contracts with steaming services, so you are add or drop them at will. But at least it is a way for some.


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## sparky27 (Jun 25, 2019)

Some interesting quotes on this topic in the article... I found it to be the most informative article I've read this issue so far.

Dish Network may cut ties with regional sports networks

"At times Ergen batted the RSN issue around like a cat bopping a mouse with its paw a few dozen times before chewing it in half. "Because I'm emotionally involved, I want to keep them. But my nose tells me, that's not the right thing to do," Ergen said. "Once you take something down, a month from now, we won't have anybody who wants a regional sports network. And to put it back up when you've lost the customers that did want it, makes no sense."

"That Sinclair is paying fire-sale prices for the RSNs-the initial valuation of the networks was north of $20 billion-speaks volumes about the state of this once-booming sector. Many analysts now believe that their inflated carriage fees have made regional sports networks all but unsustainable in a time of escalating subscriber losses."


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

sparky27 said:


> Some interesting quotes on this topic in the article... I found it to be the most informative article I've read this issue so far.
> 
> Dish Network may cut ties with regional sports networks
> 
> ...


Wow I wonder what else will change as dish transforms to a wireless provider

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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

[Off topic posts moved to Public Financial Support of Sports Teams ]


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

I just read an article from the Indy Star (Indianapolis newspaper) that indicated that FSN did indeed offer Dish a short-term extension while the two sides were negotiating. Turns out though the only short-term extension FSN was willing to agree to, was one where it expired on opening day of the 2020 baseball season. That obviously gives FSN leverage and Dish didn't feel it could negotiate a fair deal under those circumstances.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

"Sinclair Broadcast Group Inc. CEO Chris Ripley expects the beginning of football season will help end some of the blackouts TV viewers across the U.S. may be experiencing as a result of several programming disputes within the industry."

https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimo...each-agreement-with.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

I sure wish i could put my thoughts into words - Oh well JUST FIX IT...


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Since pro football is not on the affected RSN's this statement makes no sense. We're missing the current BASEBALL season.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

College football, it's more popular than pro.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Something tells me that is Sinclair hinting to Dish to accept a separate deal with Disney while they have the opportunity otherwise the Fox RSNs maybe included in a future Dish/Sinclair retransmission negotiation if the dispute lasts that long.


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## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

Michael P said:


> Since pro football is not on the affected RSN's this statement makes no sense. We're missing the current BASEBALL season.


Correct. Of the "big 4" pro sports, football's presence on RSNs is trivial. A couple of teams have some pre-season games and most have a half hour wraparound show. That is it. Zero meaningful NFL games on RSNs. Meanwhile, most EVERY MLB, NBA, and NHL game is on the local RSN.



Jim5506 said:


> College football, it's more popular than pro.


Actually, it isn't, but anyway, the MAJOR college football on RSNs is likewise almost as trivial. Of the "Power 5" leagues the ACC sub-leases 17 games to RSNs, all of which also show up on ESPN+ internet. The Big 10, Pac 12, and SEC have no games on RSNs. In the Big 12, each team gets to keep one game to sell on its own. Texas' is on its Longhorn Network. Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State 's games are on ESPN+, as will West Virginia (which is on AT&T Pittsburgh), Iowa State, Texas Tech, and Texas Christian's starting in 2020, as they have one more year on their local RSNs to work off their contracts. Oklahoma has one game on FSN Oklahoma.

So of the Power 5 leagues, RSNs have a total of 22 games all year. Next year it will be 18.

In the mid-major "Group of 5" The American, Conference USA, and the Mid-American, have no games on RSNs. The Sun Belt has five, and the Mountain West RSN has 10 , on AT&T Rocky Mountain. Of the independents, Notre Dame is on NBC, obviously; New Mexico State is on the internet; UMass is on NESN and/or the internet; BYU is on its own religious channel or the ESPNs; Army is on the CBSs. Leaving Liberty, which is on RSNs, but also ESPN+.

The vast majority of football on RSNs is from the FCS, formerly and better known as Division I-AA, and locally produced small college games.

The deal is about MLB, NBA and NHL.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I heard the deal has been now signed and it looks like Sinclair has RSN's now. I wonder if Dish has a dispute in the with Sinclair, are the RSN's also on the chopping block? It looks like another no-win situation....It is just a matter of time...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The now Sinclair RSNs are already off DISH in a dispute. Perhaps closing the sale will help since DISH should no longer need to deal with the interim negotiators that were in place during the transition. I don't know when the Sinclair locals are up for renewal ... but I expect next year's Cubs channel will be part of the discussion.

Previous threads:
Dish FSN dispute - Channels Down

Sinclair expects Dish to reach agreement with Disney, pick up Fox regional sports networks again


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## AZ. (Mar 27, 2011)

James Long said:


> The now Sinclair RSNs are already off DISH in a dispute. Perhaps closing the sale will help since DISH should no longer need to deal with the interim negotiators that were in place during the transition. I don't know when the Sinclair locals are up for renewal ... but I expect next year's Cubs channel will be part of the discussion.
> 
> Previous threads:
> Dish FSN dispute - Channels Down
> ...


Is it Sinclair producing the Cubs network?...Or the Cubs organization?...Sure havent heard much noise about any of it?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Sinclair Broadcast Group And Chicago Cubs Create Regional Sports Network


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

James Long said:


> The now Sinclair RSNs are already off DISH in a dispute. Perhaps closing the sale will help since DISH should no longer need to deal with the interim negotiators that were in place during the transition. I don't know when the Sinclair locals are up for renewal ... but I expect next year's Cubs channel will be part of the discussion.
> 
> Previous threads:
> Dish FSN dispute - Channels Down
> ...


Good point as Dish has the old dispute going. Sinclair has their STIRR stream which offers a lot of free content including all of their diginets (Comet, Charge!, and TBD). I wonder if any of the RSN material will end up free?


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

RSN content won't end up free, other than maybe a teaser. Don't be fooled. No what will happen is Sinclair will bundle RSN fees with locals and manipulate the process. It's going to be a mess. The battle over RSN is the cost and then the tier the channel is in. Sinclair will want RSN in the lowest tier and Satellite/Cable wants in a higher tier. These channels cost like $5 a month or more now and not everyone wants them.

So disputes with RSNs over time will get caught up and pull locals off....watch and see.

DISH just installed an outdoor antenna for me - for free - as I am in a market that lost two locals....antenna works great and I am cancelling locals now.



mwdxer said:


> Good point as Dish has the old dispute going. Sinclair has their STIRR stream which offers a lot of free content including all of their diginets (Comet, Charge!, and TBD). I wonder if any of the RSN material will end up free?


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## bnwrx (Dec 29, 2007)

WebTraveler said:


> RSN content won't end up free, other than maybe a teaser. Don't be fooled. No what will happen is Sinclair will bundle RSN fees with locals and manipulate the process. It's going to be a mess. The battle over RSN is the cost and then the tier the channel is in. Sinclair will want RSN in the lowest tier and Satellite/Cable wants in a higher tier. These channels cost like $5 a month or more now and not everyone wants them.
> 
> So disputes with RSNs over time will get caught up and pull locals off....watch and see.
> 
> *DISH just installed an outdoor antenna for me - for free - as I am in a market that lost two locals....antenna works great and I am cancelling locals now.*


Are your "antenna locals" integrated into your DISH dvr for recording?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Yes they are. Now - the Primetime Anytime doesNOT include OTA channels - so you have to setup timers individually .


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Yes they are. Can gave 2 OTA feeds at the same time, so you can't record everything.

I have not given up my DISH locals yet, But I do understand that I will lose ABC/NBC stream content when I do.

It seems to work well, and I get subchannels for almost every station, basically a lot of old shows (METV, COZI, etc.), some more shopping networks, etc. There's a lot of stuff out there. Guide populates for some of these channels, but not all.

It works.



bnwrx said:


> Are your "antenna locals" integrated into your DISH dvr for recording?


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, that is one reason I keep everything on Dish including locals, as I would lose the "On Demand" stuff on my Roku/Firestick. That is a very nice free perk.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Yes, it seems to work now just fine. Two tuners though. That's a little limitation....so prime time anytime will need to be really focused into two channels. Not really sure this is the total answer....and all the RSNs dropping.....not really sure where all this goes.



bnwrx said:


> Are your "antenna locals" integrated into your DISH dvr for recording?


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## Don M (Jul 1, 2006)

I noticed that most of the Big 12 football games this weekend are on FSN. Is that one of the Regional FOX Sports nets that are currently dark on DISH?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Yep!


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## Don M (Jul 1, 2006)

Thanks. Are there any negotiations going on between DISH and Sinclair at this time?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Probably. Although the channels have been off long enough that the initial damage is done.

Game Finder lists games that are "unavailable".


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

I suspect that the FSN guys are contacting DISH every day. DISH seems resigned to pull the RSNs off the lowest tier 120 plus and insert them in a higher tier and sportspack.

That's fatal to the RSN mode....that is, charging everyone $5 a month or so and then team owners get most of that.

In time you will see RSNs failing - this model is going to break the back.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH Promise | MyDISH | DISH Customer Support


> We are fighting to keep your TV bill as low as possible. The largest cost for DISH is the amount we pay to programmers who own the content you enjoy watching. To keep our commitment in providing the best value, we are done being bullied into unfair programming deals that do not make sense for our customers. We are no longer going to support this broken business model, and are standing up on behalf of our customers.
> 
> Regional Sports relies on the majority of customers to pay costs for channels they may not even watch. Regional Sports should be like a ticket to the ballpark - with fans wanting to watch the game being those who pay for it. It is not fair for you to have to burden the unnecessary additional costs that only pad the profit margins of programmers such as FOX Regional Sports Networks. Right now, costs for TV sports rights in America are the worst deal going and the only winners are the sports broadcasters, like FOX Regional Sports Networks.


Ergen: Dish May Never Carry Fox RSNs


> "Because I'm emotionally involved, I want to keep them," Ergen said of the Fox RSNs. "And my nose tells me, that's not the right thing to do."
> 
> The longer the dispute drags on, the lesser the chances for a resolution, Ergen added, noting that after about one month without the networks, most customers will forget they ever had an RSN.
> 
> "I guess, the chairman saying it doesn't look good that the regional sports will ever be on Dish again," Ergen said.


In my opinion, RSNs are seasonal. Many may not notice that their RSN is gone until they go looking for the content that is on that RSN. If their team isn't playing having the RSN isn't important. But when a customer can't watch a game the missing RSN becomes more noticible.


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## Don M (Jul 1, 2006)

James Long said:


> DISH Promise | MyDISH | DISH Customer Support
> 
> Ergen: Dish May Never Carry Fox RSNs
> 
> In my opinion, RSNs are seasonal. Many may not notice that their RSN is gone until they go looking for the content that is on that RSN. If their team isn't playing having the RSN isn't important. But when a customer can't watch a game the missing RSN becomes more noticible.


I pay for a lot of channels I never watch. The RSNs have MLB and NCAA football, along with some HS football games. Why not do a poll and ask customers what they would be willing to pay for channels that might be lost? We lost seven or so channels when HBO and CINEMAX left. If National Geographic, FX, and FXM leave along with the RSNs will customers continue to stay with DISH. With all the streaming services that offer exclusive programming available, many with commercial free options, is the small dish in danger of going the way of the big dish? I hope not.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Don M said:


> I pay for a lot of channels I never watch. The RSNs have MLB and NCAA football, along with some HS football games. Why not do a poll and ask customers what they would be willing to pay for channels that might be lost? We lost seven or so channels when HBO and CINEMAX left. If National Geographic, FX, and FXM leave along with the RSNs will customers continue to stay with DISH. With all the streaming services that offer exclusive programming available, many with commercial free options, is the small dish in danger of going the way of the big dish? I hope not.


I heard tonight that Direct may lose Disney. These
constant fights will continue with all providers. The programmers want more money and providers are losing subscribers.
It looks like the viewers that can stream may be looking elsewhere for the missing channels. At least with streaming there are no contracts or extra fees. If some service loses your favorite channels, then you switch to another streaming company.I have Dish, but I also have the Roku/Firestick, so I picked up HBO for a time. Lately I picked up Philo for BBC World and Aspire. The value of Dish, Direct, and cable will continue to diminish as they will continue to lose channels that may never return. You may be right, the days of satellite may be numbered. For that matter, so will cable, as they deal with the same thing.


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## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

ABC station in Chicago is running a crawler urging viewers to contact Direct to avoid losing the channel. The games never end.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

BillJ said:


> ABC station in Chicago is running a crawler urging viewers to contact Direct to avoid losing the channel. The games never end.


Yeah, as if a commercial channel is hurting for money. They make millions with advertising fees and want more from service providers at the same time.


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## excalibur300 (Apr 2, 2008)

Any world on when (or if) the Fox Regional Sports Networks might return to Dish?

Thanks


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## Willh (Jan 1, 2009)

well, there is no word from Sinclair over this dispute, and not only that, they are about to enter a dispute AT&T over the carriage of the stations they own in many markets and Tennis channel which could end up resulting in a blackout come this Saturday (contract ends on Friday Night). 

this dispute is unique as when it started, Disney owned (granted they only got it temporary after getting the Fox merger complete and have to sell them off quickly per orders of the DOJ/SEC/FCC). then Disney sold them to Sinclair (the sell agreement happened before the dispute, the final approval happened after the dispute began). plus Sinclair had had a bad history of getting into disputes, so i wouldn't be surprised if Dish decides that it ain't worth it anymore and this becomes a permanent dispute where the channels are gone for good. i wouldn't be surprised if Dish drops all RSNs once their contract expires. they have a couple of markets where there is no RSNs for that market cause they are either Comcast/NBCUniversal owned, AT&T/WarnerMedia owned, Charter Spectrum owned or in the case of YES!, and SNY, and Altitude (and Spectrum SportsNet LA), owned/co-owned by a team. so Charlie Cheapo will dump RSNs like he did to HBO & Cinemax


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

See the quotes on the previous page ...
"The longer the dispute drags on, the lesser the chances for a resolution, Ergen added, noting that after about one month without the networks, most customers will forget they ever had an RSN."

The channels dropped July 26th - just under two months ago. As noted, I do not agree with Ergen about the "one month" - I believe subscribers will notice the channels are missing when they realize they are not seeing the sports they are accustomed to seeing on those channels (when their favorite teams are in their sports season). That being said, there certainly has not been a lot of complaints here.

The good news is that the channels are still in the guide (unlike HBO/Cinemax and previously Univision) so there is hope that they will return. If the placeholders are removed worry more.


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## ibjimbo (Apr 11, 2006)

"Most customers will forget they ever had an RSN." Charlie, I believe that is one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

How can someone just forget they cant watch there local sports team ?? 

Well sports fans at least 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## William Preston (Sep 26, 2018)

checked a few days ago and Warrens video hasn't changed at all unless he doesn't change his clothes  I doubt any negotiations are going on


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

William Preston said:


> checked a few days ago and Warrens video hasn't changed at all unless he doesn't change his clothes  I doubt any negotiations are going on


A bunch of uplink changes, but the channels are still off ... did Warren Schlichting's suit change? The message says "continue" to block the channels.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

Willh said:


> well, there is no word from Sinclair over this dispute, and not only that, they are about to enter a dispute AT&T over the carriage of the stations they own in many markets and Tennis channel which could end up resulting in a blackout come this Saturday (contract ends on Friday Night).
> 
> this dispute is unique as when it started, Disney owned (granted they only got it temporary after getting the Fox merger complete and have to sell them off quickly per orders of the DOJ/SEC/FCC). then Disney sold them to Sinclair (the sell agreement happened before the dispute, the final approval happened after the dispute began). plus Sinclair had had a bad history of getting into disputes, so i wouldn't be surprised if Dish decides that it ain't worth it anymore and this becomes a permanent dispute where the channels are gone for good. i wouldn't be surprised if Dish drops all RSNs once their contract expires. they have a couple of markets where there is no RSNs for that market cause they are either Comcast/NBCUniversal owned, AT&T/WarnerMedia owned, Charter Spectrum owned or in the case of YES!, and SNY, and Altitude (and Spectrum SportsNet LA), owned/co-owned by a team. so Charlie Cheapo will dump RSNs like he did to HBO & Cinemax


In a statement released by AT&T Sinclair is trying to bundle the future Marquee Sports Network in with their agreement for their O&O stations. It has been reported Sinclair is asking $4 per sub for this channel for MVPDs to carry it. AT&T calls it the "one of the most expensive single-team RSNs ever with the Cubs in Chicago."

AT&T also noted Sinclair wants to bundle the Fox RSNs in with this deal despite AT&T reaching an agreement with Old Fox in 2018 that covers the Fox RSNs. They also said Sinclair is asking "for carriage of multiple cable channels that don't even exist or that Sinclair hopes to someday acquire."

So if Sinclair is doing that to AT&T for D*, U-Verse TV, AT&T TV Now and AT&T TV then logically Sinclair is probably proposing deals for the Fox RSNs + Marquee Sports Network and Dish is probably saying no.

Dish's last agreement for Sinclair O&O stations that was announced publicly was in 2015 so if this drags on too much longer Dish could be faced with negotiating for Sinclair for their O&O stations, Tennis Channel, Fox RSNs, Marquee Sports Network and possibly others.


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## Tiny (Feb 1, 2009)

FS 1 is removed tonight


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

FS1, FS2, Fox Sports Deportes, Fox Soccer Plus, Big Ten Network and Fox/MyNet O&O stations are part of the New Fox Corporation vs Dish Network dispute. Fox RSNs/Yes Network are now owned by Sinclair Broadcasting Group the channels are just using the Fox name for now.


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## BobCulp (Dec 21, 2013)

Just curious what happened to the college sports schedule on 148 ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BobCulp said:


> Just curious what happened to the college sports schedule on 148 ?


DISH took it down when they added ACCN (August 29th). Initially ACCN was on both 148 and 402. ACCN was removed from 148 on September 11th.


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## BobCulp (Dec 21, 2013)

Fox has taken another channel down. 238 WWOR is the new casualty. I thought WWOR is a CW station that used to be an independent super-station. FOX has no business in owning non fox channels. I hate mergers and want to see competition return.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

BobCulp said:


> Fox has taken another channel down. 238 WWOR is the new casualty. I thought WWOR is a CW station that used to be an independent super-station. FOX has no business in owning non fox channels. I hate mergers and want to see competition return.


Yes, I still have the Super Stations pack and WWOR is gone too. The rest of the Super Stations are there. At least WWOR is one I did not watch often.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

BobCulp said:


> I thought WWOR is a CW station that used to be an independent super-station.


You might be confused with the other NYC SS, WPIX - which IS (their) CW station...& which EW Scripps just took over ownership from Tribune a couple weeks ago.


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

Fox Sports Ohio still gone ....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BobCulp said:


> I thought WWOR is a CW station that used to be an independent super-station.


Not necessarily independent, but the superstations should be carried under the provision of the law that allows superstations with a statutory rate paid to copyright holders for the content on the station. The station owner would only control rebroadcast within the home market for the station.

It does make it easier for DISH to not accidentally deliver WWOR in market during the dispute.

(BTW: WGN ceased being a "superstation" years ago when the content separated from what was aired on on local WGN channel 9 in Chicago. WTBS went through the same transition.)


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

BobCulp said:


> Fox has taken another channel down. 238 WWOR is the new casualty. I thought WWOR is a CW station that used to be an independent super-station. FOX has no business in owning non fox channels. I hate mergers and want to see competition return.





mwdxer said:


> Yes, I still have the Super Stations pack and WWOR is gone too. The rest of the Super Stations are there. At least WWOR is one I did not watch often.





dishrich said:


> You might be confused with the other NYC SS, WPIX - which IS (their) CW station...& which EW Scripps just took over ownership from Tribune a couple weeks ago.


@dishrich is correct *WPIX* is the CW affiliate while that is currently owned by E.W. Scripps Company. It was formally owned by Tribune but was sold as part of the Nexstar-Tribune merger. *WWOR* is the New York MyNetworkTV O&O affiliate owned by Fox Corporation and is a sister station to Fox O&O *WNYW*.

In the Chicago market Fox Corp.'s MyNetworkTV O&O *WPWR* held The CW affiliation from September 1, 2016 - August 31, 2019 when then Tribune owned *WGN* decided to revert back to being an Independent station in order to fulfill its commitment to sports programming that it had at the time. During this time *WPWR* held both the CW & MyNet affiliations and showed MyNet programming after The CW.

Effective September 1, 2019 The CW affiliation for the Chicago market was transferred to Weigel Broadcasting's *WCIU* station as part of a deal between CBS and Weigel. *WPWR* reverted back to being a full time MyNet O&O. Nexstar's *WGN* is still an independent station but no longer has the rights to Cubs, White Sox (MLB), Bulls (NBA), and Blackhawks (NHL) games. Cubs and Sinclair are launching the Marquee Sports Network in the spring of 2020 while White Sox, Bulls and Blackhawks have signed an exclusive deal with NBC Sports Chicago.

Currently no Fox Corporation local station has an affiliation with The CW or any of the other Big 3. They are primarily Fox O&Os and in markets where Fox has a duopoly they have a MyNetworkTV O&O. The only exception to this is the San Francisco, CA market where Fox owns KTVU-Fox and KICU-IND and Nexstar owns KRON-MNT.

Now a lot of Fox/MyNet local stations have affiliations with digital broadcast networks on their subchannels such as Heroes & Icons, Movies!, Light TV, Buzzr and Decades for example.


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## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

Some of those sub channels (Movies, etc) I have to take off my big dish as they are not available here.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Well still no news and basketball season is less than a week away. My wife continues to grumble about it. I did talk to Dish and I was offered a bill credit (how much is hard to say the number kept jumping around the whole conversation) if Dish doesn't have the RSNs by the time season starts and I end up subscribing to a streaming service to get them. I know Dish doesn't want to pay too much for the channels but I wonder how much they lose by not only subscribers leaving but also people like me who will probably ultimately keep Dish but instead of upping my subscription to AT200 I'll be keeping it at the Flex Pack and on top of that they'll be crediting my bill. That's quite a few dollars each month they are losing out on. I'm sure they have someone who crunches all the numbers and figures out what makes sense, or at least I hope so, I'd hate to think they base all of this on Charlie's mood and stubbornness.


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## MVL999 (May 14, 2004)

It seems direct tv can get a deal done with Sinclair!!!

AT&T and Sinclair Come to Terms | TVWeek


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

MVL999 said:


> It seems direct tv can get a deal done with Sinclair!!!
> 
> AT&T and Sinclair Come to Terms | TVWeek


That's because it was tied to Sinclair's O&O local stations. AT&T didn't have to worry about losing the FSN channels in the short term because of their 2018 deal with Fox that previously included them. As various industry sites point out Sinclair is bundling Marquee Sports Network and YES Network into their negotiations.

Charter and Sinclair came to an agreement on July 11th this year for local stations which bundled Tennis Channel and Marquee into the agreement. This deal also included the Fox RSNs that they were in the process of buying at the time.

Thing is Dish hasn't carried YES Network and they probably have no interest in carrying Marquee right now. Dish probably wants a deal just for the Fox RSNs that they previously carried. Sinclair on the other hand wants as many distributors for all their RSNs as possible and are most likely trying to bundle YES and Marquee into any deal involving the Fox RSNs with Dish.

Eventually Dish will have to decide whether or not to carry them if this lasts until their deal for Sinclair O&O stations + Tennis Channel expires Sinclair will then bundle them all together in 1 contract and Dish will have to either stick to their guns and face a massive locals blackout or give into Sinclair (like Charter and AT&T) and carry them all.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

If att had any brains they’d offer big discounts to dish subscribers to come over because of the RSN issues. But they are probably to dumb too. 

It will be interesting to see how big a hit dish takes in the new year. It may not affect them much the first month or two but I can see a loss of some subscribers after a significant amount of missed nba and nhl. MLB isn’t nearly as big a deal imho.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

inkahauts said:


> If att had any brains they'd offer big discounts to dish subscribers to come over because of the RSN issues. But they are probably to dumb too.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how big a hit dish takes in the new year. It may not affect them much the first month or two but I can see a loss of some subscribers after a significant amount of missed nba and nhl. MLB isn't nearly as big a deal imho.


Actually its not dumb and the industry has been this way for years. MVPDs in general don't want to step on each other's toes when it comes to a blackout regarding channels they have no ownership in. It defeats the purpose of their PR awareness campaigns to the average consumer that blackouts happen to all providers and switching because of a blackout isn't the answer. In terms of local channel disputes the Mobile, AL DMA was a perfect example this summer as it was impacted by the Meredith-Dish dispute & Nexstar-AT&T dispute at the same time.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

You clearly aren’t in Los Angeles where charter always pushes everyone else’s lack of carrying the Dodgers...


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> If att had any brains they'd offer big discounts to dish subscribers to come over because of the RSN issues. But they are probably to dumb too.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how big a hit dish takes in the new year. It may not affect them much the first month or two but I can see a loss of some subscribers after a significant amount of missed nba and nhl. MLB isn't nearly as big a deal imho.


Real Dish NHL fans subscribe to Center Ice and don't miss any games. I'll be watching Fox Sports Detroit's coverage of the Redwings/Canucks game tonight on 475-04. Even if a game is blacked out in your area, you may be able to stream it on NHL TV.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> You clearly aren't in Los Angeles where charter always pushes everyone else's lack of carrying the Dodgers...


Charter doing something is proof that it is stupid.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> Even if a game is blacked out in your area, you may be able to stream it on NHL TV.


Not if you live in the team's territory.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Not if you live in the team's territory.


How does NHL TV determine your location?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

NYDutch said:


> How does NHL TV determine your location?


Your IP address.


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## NYDutch (Dec 28, 2013)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Your IP address.


Well, my IP addresses change regularly, and right now one of them is out of Syracuse, NY (Spectrum), one is NYC (AT&T), and one is Boston (Verizon). No matter which one I try, NHL TV isn't blocking any games. If they really are geolocating, there's an easy way around it.

Hmmm, on edit: I was testing NHL TV on my Android phone, and it appears they're using GPS to determine my location, which I can easily get past using the "Fake GPS" app. On my PC though, it doesn't matter which Internet service I use, the Rangers/Coyotes game is blacked out as I'd expect since I'm currently in NY. I'll have to play with that some more when the games are back on tomorrow night.


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## techguy88 (Mar 19, 2015)

inkahauts said:


> You clearly aren't in Los Angeles where charter always pushes everyone else's lack of carrying the Dodgers...


I said "channels they have no ownership in" SportsNet LA is different because Charter owns 50% of the RSN and is the managing partner. After Charter came to the realization no one would accept the terms they wanted they market the channel as exclusive to Spectrum. This will most likely not change until other providers accept Charter's high asking price or until the Dodgers decide to find another partner after their contract with Spectrum ends (which won't be anytime soon). NBC Sports Philadelphia is a similar situation because Comcast owns 75% of that RSN and has used it as a tool to gain/keep customers from switching to DirecTV/Dish who must have that RSN.

Obviously Spectrum will use their own service to market SportsNet LA and even SportsNet (in the event other providers drop it) if they have to. Their goal is to maximize profit from these channels in any way possible.

Comcast will use the wonderful power of Xfinity and their X1 voice remote to push its own NBCUniversal suite of local, entertainment and sports channels if multiple providers begin to drops them.

AT&T will show you the true meaning of "more for your thing that's our thing" via DirecTV, AT&T TV (and their other 3 video services) if providers begin to drop the WarnerMedia suite of entertainment and sports channels.

However what you will not see is Charter Spectrum targeting Dish/Sling TV customers with special marking like "Hey you! We have your local FSN channel.... come to Spectrum for your favorite sports!" This is something Spectrum will not do which is step on Dish's toes while they are negotiating with Sinclair even though they just renewed their agreement. Same goes for Comcast, AT&T, Altice USA, etc. They know this will come back to bite them in the ass if those channels are ever blacked out on their systems and Dish/Sling has them.

Case in point with NBC Sports Chicago, Comcast is only promoting itself with other providers to Dish/Sling TV customers who it has a renewed deal with. Despite DirecTV, U-Verse TV and AT&T TV Now carrying NBC Sports Chicago under an extension (deadline not known) they are not promoting AT&T services to Dish/Sling customers as alternate ones to switch to right now. However Comcast is not outright bashing AT&T like they are Dish/Sling.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Well I'm trying out Fubo to get Fox Sports Indiana. Now to see if the Dish executive office actually gives me some credits like they said they would if they didn't have the channel back by the beginning of basketball season.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

James Long said:


> Charter doing something is proof that it is stupid.


Their internet has really been good for me, and I never have any issues at their stores, and they are always helpful and quick. It really is kind of weird to be honest...

They also just bumped everyone in my area to 200 speed with no price changes.


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

I think Dish is positioning itself as the low cost TV provider so they are willing to be more aggressive in negotiations. They saved me from cutting the cord entirely with the Flex Pack and I pay $47.99/mo (after a $10 refer a friend discount) and get most of what I want. I don’t watch sports, so I don’t pay for ESPN or any other sports and I get locals OTA so I don’t pay for them either (and I’m not affected by OTA disputes).


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Well I am happy to say that the Dish executive team did live up to their promise and did give a credit to help me offset the cost of having to subscribe to fubo to receive my regional Fox Sports channel. Hopefully they will end up reaching some kind of agreement though, while streaming works in a pinch it's a step down in platform, functionality and picture quality.


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