# HR 20 Without a Blues Clues



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Well, to go along with the HR-20 refusing to record many of "The Wiggles" episodes (without reason). It now seems to have a consistent problem with recording "Blue's Clues" as well.

Series Record is setup to record Blues Clues from Noggin network at 1:59PM each day. The Recording settings are are BOTH, FIVE, Until Disk is Full and 1 min before and 1 min after (because the HR-20 also has no clue about telling time). There is over 50% of the HD free.

Well, after letting this go for a couple of weeks the HR-20 managed to record five shows...it also had 5 shows marked as, "Canceled - Show was partially recorded and became unavailable (13)". Sometimes the machine then picks up another episode at around noon on the same network to cover the missed recording.

All other shows on this machine (except Wiggles which it mysteriously ignores) recorded properly.

There are no notes or problems indicated in the Priority List...and I have made sure to move it up to a place where no other recording could possibly be an issue.

There are no other shows recordings scheduled around the time of this show.
The show did record properly on another DVR running off the same dish/multiswitch.

The multiswitch is a couple of weeks old and is powered. I changed it to negate that being an issue.

A friend of mine who owns a cabling company came by this morning to check all of our cabling and signal strength...there are no issues....everything is clean and at or above spec. The connections to the box are tight and the BBCs checked out as operating properly on channel 499.

Satellite signals are all in the mid to high 90s consistently on both sides.

This is not the machine that mysteriously lost Tuner 2.

I'm not connected to a network because we have the audacity to have devices using UPnP and that causes the HR-20 to lockup. The box is connected to the receiver via HDMI. Other than phone and power there are no other connections. The box is in a well ventilated cabinet free and operates at about 120 degrees (F).

I called D CSR and the Techs had no clue and no one seems to know what the mysterious error 13 really means or could mean. I don't waste time posting on the D tech support boards because they never seem to get answered.

I, of course, can return the HR-20 (it would actually be two of them that are having similar problems)...that would make 9 or 10 that have had to go (I have lost count). That, of course, also means losing all of our recordings and the joy of getting to install a new box that is likely to have problems as well.

I know some of you haven't seen problems...and you may not. But..before you say "Mine works fine" put a few random series in your record list and then a week later go back and scan through your History file...you may be surprised at what's really going on. Sometimes the box can cover the problem by getting another show...other times (especially if you're just recording five) you don't notice the issues because you have five episodes

Anyway, as with the The Wiggles issue I doubt anyone here has an answer...but maybe someone at D is really bored and will read this and take a look at a development group that is more interested in changing menu colors than fixing serious issues and deficiencies in a released product.

I'm not mad...not ranting...just tired and disgusted with this device and DirecTV in general.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Well, to go along with the HR-20 refusing to record many of "The Wiggles" episodes (without reason). It now seems to have a consistent problem with recording "Blue's Clues" as well.
> 
> Series Record is setup to record Blues Clues from Noggin network at 1:59PM each day. The Recording settings are are BOTH, FIVE, Until Disk is Full and 1 min before and 1 min after (because the HR-20 also has no clue about telling time). There is over 50% of the HD free.
> 
> ...


I think there might be something "hinky" in the guide data that is causing the HR20 to not know when and what it should be recording. Whenever there is a problem with a specific show, it leads me to the Guide Data problem. The HR20 is Guide Centric ...and it also works from a "data stream" that is not identical to the text information shown in the banners. If there is a problem with something in the data stream, your recording may fail...it can not do it, it can partially do it, ...all sorts of bizarre things can happen because of this dependence on the guide for "all its smarts".

While this is convenient and user friendly, it puts all one's eggs in one basket, and if there is the slightest problem with the guide data stream, you are SOL.

If the HR20 records other programs and series fine, then the above is my story, and I'm sticking to it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the HR20. Garbage In > Garbage Out. Hopefully D* can fix the problem, and it won't be long-running.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

hasan said:


> I think there might be something "hinky" in the guide data that is causing the HR20 to not know when and what it should be recording. Whenever there is a problem with a specific show, it leads me to the Guide Data problem. The HR20 is Guide Centric ...and it also works from a "data stream" that is not identical to the text information shown in the banners. If there is a problem with something in the data stream, your recording may fail...it can not do it, it can partially do it, ...all sorts of bizarre things can happen because of this dependence on the guide for "all its smarts".
> 
> While this is convenient and user friendly, it puts all one's eggs in one basket, and if there is the slightest problem with the guide data stream, you are SOL.
> 
> If the HR20 records other programs and series fine, then the above is my story, and I'm sticking to it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the HR20. Garbage In > Garbage Out. Hopefully D* can fix the problem, and it won't be long-running.


Hasan,

I think it's worse than just a guide data problem. It may be a problem with the HR-20 either not parsing the data stream properly or otherwise munging (technical term) the data. Why do I say this? Because the same show won't record on one device and will on another in the same house at the same time.

So, it very well could be valid data in, garbage out.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Hasan,
> 
> I think it's worse than just a guide data problem. It may be a problem with the HR-20 either not parsing the data stream properly or otherwise munging (technical term) the data. Why do I say this? Because the same show won't record on one device and will on another in the same house at the same time.
> 
> So, it very well could be valid data in, garbage out.


Absolutely, just another example of the "data stream" dependence vulnerability. It may be even more likely that it is a parsing problem, than a data stream problem (although they could be related). I love munge.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Well, KenS, as the father of a Blues Clues fanatic, I completely understand the seriousness of this issue! 

So, I thought I'd take a look at my history list and see what I could see. Guess what, YOUR ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

My SL is set up for 8am Mountain, on NIK1 299.

Today, for example, the 8am showing displays canceled in the history list (error 13) _What the heck does that mean, already?_

It tried to pick up the same episode at the 9am showing, and its status displays partial in the history list, with no further information in the detail page. Of course, in the playlist, there is no Blues Clues for today.

I scanned back through the history list, and for Friday 7/6, it is also canceled (but not error 13 in this case  .) Thursday 7/5 recorded fine. 7/4, error 13. 7/3 and 7/2 are fine.

Back on through the history list are many more scattered error 13's on the 8am, 9am and 10:30 am showings through June.

BTW, I have an SD "you know who's" box in the family room, with the same SL, oops, I mean Season Pass, and it recorded all episodes without issue.

I agree with Hasan that this has something to do with bad/changing guide data, or maybe more to the point, how the HR20 is dealing with the bad data. Not that any of that really matters, it is simply not recording consistently.

Someone at DirecTV needs to "Sit down in their thinking chair, and think, think, think."
(That was _really _funny if you have ever seen "Blues Clues")


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

I am trying to record Blue's Clues to see if I can reproduce the problem.

Calm down, Ken.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

I am not a father, but I am an uncle. And if I remember right, doesn't that show Blues Clues repeat itself all week? Even if it is set to both, it won't record the exact same episode more than once until it is deleted or forced to do so.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

The more I am thinking about this, the more I am thinking it might be that timing issue. The HR20 does a lot of stuff in background, including parsing the guide data. Wonder if it is getting caught in between and losing data. Each machine would do this on its own time and may or may not lose the same data.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

armophob said:


> I am not a father, but I am an uncle. And if I remember right, doesn't that show Blues Clues repeat itself all week? Even if it is set to both, it won't record the exact same episode more than once until it is deleted or forced to do so.


Good guess, armophob, I didn't think of that. But, alas, the episode that failed to record this morning is not in my playlist.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> I am trying to record Blue's Clues to see if I can reproduce the problem.
> 
> Calm down, Ken.


Hey, this is toddlers and Blues Clues. _Very, very_ serious business!:lol:

See my avatar? Do you want a piece of that? _I thought not_.  EDIT: avatar has, of course been changed.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Good guess, armophob, I didn't think of that. But, alas, the episode that failed to record this morning is not in my playlist.


Is this like that Planet Earth problem from before? The episodes that are not recording, can you set up a second and third series link on them? Like they are completely different shows.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

cygnusloop said:



> Hey, this is toddlers and Blues Clues. _Very, very_ serious business!:lol:
> 
> See my avatar, do you want a piece of that? I thought not.




I know.

Gotta beware those toddlers who read the TV Guide and figure out they missed an episode of Blue's Clues. Miss one show and the whole continuity is shot!


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

armophob said:


> Is this like that Planet Earth problem from before? The episodes that are not recording, can you set up a second and third series link on them? Like they are completely different shows.


IIRC, the Planet Earth issue had something to do with the guide data for the first episode that aired. It had something different in the guide stream that made the HR20 think it was a different show than the subsequent episodes, like it was a special, and not part of the series. And, I think that issue extended to other DVR's as well, but I could be wrong about that.

In this case, these episodes are definitely part of the same series, but from time to time (randomly, as best as I can tell) the HR20 chooses not to record them.

Thanks for trying to help, please keep trying!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Well, KenS, as the father of a Blues Clues fanatic, I completely understand the seriousness of this issue!
> 
> So, I thought I'd take a look at my history list and see what I could see. Guess what, YOUR ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
> 
> ...


cygnusloop,

Thank you. I wonder how many other people that thing their HR-20 is operating "perfectly" just have been lucky...and/or haven't seen the errors.

I'm thinking of a little visit with my son to D's offices in California. Perhaps we'll do a diaper change or two and leave them in the "comments" box. Wanna join me? I'm thinking a couple of old Huggies will get the message across real fast


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> cygnusloop,
> 
> I'm thinking of a little visit with my son to D's offices in California. Perhaps we'll do a diaper change or two and leave them in the "comments" box. Wanna join me? I'm thinking a couple of old Huggies will get the message across real fast


!rolling !rolling !rolling !rolling


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

armophob said:


> I am not a father, but I am an uncle. And if I remember right, doesn't that show Blues Clues repeat itself all week? Even if it is set to both, it won't record the exact same episode more than once until it is deleted or forced to do so.


armophob, I checked for that because that's what I thought was happening with The Wiggles not recording as well. That's not the case here.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

At least they are not repeating the recording failure troubles. New and improved failures.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> I am trying to record Blue's Clues to see if I can reproduce the problem.
> 
> Calm down, Ken.


Tony,

Perhaps Cyg's daughter and my son, Franklyn need to be making a visit to your home? Hope you got a couple of sippy cups on ice!

I'm not all that upset. I now know what I'm dealing with when it comes to the HR-20. Just gotta hope they improve it and make good on the mess the have sold me and others or that the competition has a decent offering when my commitment is over.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Tony,
> 
> Perhaps Cyg's daughter and my son, Franklyn need to be making a visit to your home? Hope you got a couple of sippy cups on ice!
> 
> I'm not all that upset. I now know what I'm dealing with when it comes to the HR-20. Just gotta hope they improve it and make good on the mess the have sold me and others or that the competition has a decent offering when my commitment is over.


No, not upset at all, just threatening to dump **** on people. Yup, that's what I do when I am not upset.

You would get more sympathy if you didn't take every opportunity to bash DirecTV.

Anyway, back to your problem. Blue's Clues recorded for me today. Did it record at your place? If we can reproduce this, it might help DirecTV figure it out.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> No, not upset at all, just threatening to dump **** on people. Yup, that's what I do when I am not upset.
> 
> You would get more sympathy if you didn't take every opportunity to bash DirecTV.
> 
> Anyway, back to your problem. Blue's Clues recorded for me today. Did it record at your place? If we can reproduce this, it might help DirecTV figure it out.


Tony,
I was kidding...and you know it. As for people's sympathy...I can get that from my Mom.

As for bashing DirecTV at every opportunity that's not true either. I do tell the truth about my experiences though. I was a satisfied customer for many years until I was foolish enough to get the HR-20. I've even had some good things to say about DirecTV lately although it gets harder to do as I see less and less care about the customer (me) on their end. Some might find me too sarcastic and/or acerbic...but hey, that's kind of what makes a public forum interesting.

As for fixing the issue:
If someone qualified at DirecTV is interested in fixing this...they can send me a PM or email and I'll go through my entire recording history with them line by line. I'd even consider sending the box to them if we could work out a replacement. They can come to my house if they want and go through the entire installation. If you work for them send me a PM. I won't divulge that info and will reasonably cooperate.

My guess is they're well aware of these bugs by now and either haven't gotten around to fixing them, don't consider them important enough to fix, or won't fund resources to work on anything that's not a revenue generator.

In the past, I've sent emails to their tech groups with bug reports and information and posted similar on their forums. The forums never seem to get responses and the email responses are a form that tell me to call customer service which then takes me through the standard procedure which would end with me losing my recordings and them sending out a tech with a "new" box for me.

I posted the initial message so others might know what they're getting into when considering the HR-20. It seems I'm not the only one suffering this type of problem. Certainly, there are people that have had better experiences with the HR-20 than I have...I don't doubt that. 
But, some of the problems I've experienced are issues that people considering the box may want to know about. Others may not care...and that's cool too.

I know it's wrong of me to pay for DirecTV equipment and for their service and then have the nerve to report errors or not be happy about the service/equipment when it continually fails in its basic task. I have no financial interest in DirecTV (other than my investment in their service and equipment) and no financial interest in their competitors. Basically, all I want is a DVR that works as reliably as other home audio appliances I've had of a similar nature (Audio Request, Sony T60 Tivo, etc.).

Hey, if the moderators/owners of this forum wish me to stop posting just ask...I'll stop...it's their board and I'm really nothing more than a guest. If DirecTV wishes me to stop they can fix their products, or better yet make sure they work before promoting and releasing them. If individual members here don't like me...just ignore my posts. I won't be hurt.

I was going to mention one other issue with the HR-20 this morning and didn't because I thought it would bring about too much vitriol from the "DirecTV can do no wrong folks" that are here. But since I've already done that...this weekend I had four young children with their parents and we made the horrid mistake of searching on the title "Spring" and we got the wonderful movie "Spring Break Sex Party" as the number one choice even though those types of movies are explicitly blocked and the channels not included in my favorites. I've known of an issue like this from another poster, but I was stupid...I just didn't think of all the possibilities when I started my search. I guess I'm lucky I wasn't searching for "Pussy Cat Dolls".

Oh, and for those of you that are concerned...I'm calm.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Some might find me too sarcastic and/or acerbic...but hey, that's kind of what makes a public forum interesting.


I know I certainly have, on occasion... :lol: :lol:

Many people find me overbearing, obnoxious, and a bit of a know-it-all. Oh, well. Like you said, that's what makes a public forum fun.

Be who your are. It takes all kinds, folks. If it's who you are, go right ahead and be "Obsequious, purple and clairvoyant."
(Big props to anyone who can cite that reference.)



> ...this weekend I had four young children with their parents and we made the horrid mistake of searching on the title "Spring" and we got the wonderful movie "Spring Break Sex Party" as the number one choice even though those types of movies are explicitly blocked and the channels not included in my favorites.


I remember that coming up not to long ago, what happened to that thread?

This seems like one they would want to get right on top of. I can't imagine the marketing department would appreciate the press if _that _bug became widespread knowledge. And, as we all know, it's the marketeers that really hold the power at DirecTV.:nono2:


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Ken S said:


> I posted the initial message so others might know what they're getting into when considering the HR-20. It seems I'm not the only one suffering this type of problem. Certainly, there are people that have had better experiences with the HR-20 than I have...I don't doubt that.
> But, some of the problems I've experienced are issues that people considering the box may want to know about. Others may not care...and that's cool too.


Okay, then. I will remember to not try to help you since you weren't looking for help, just warning others about the HR20.

Thanks for being such a good public citizen.

I will delete my Blue's Clues season list now. Forget anyone actually tried to help you.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> I know I certainly have, on occasion... :lol: :lol:
> 
> Many people find me overbearing, obnoxious, and a bit of a know-it-all. Oh, well. Like you said, that's what makes a public forum fun.
> 
> ...


I think it was Steve Martin...but don't remember from what.

BTW, I think I figured out at least part of the issue with some of the "educational" shows I've been trying to record.

After going through the history again...it seems sometimes the guide only shows "Educational" where the show's episode title would go. If that were getting put into the episode title slot then, I guess, the HR-20 would just consider it a repeat of a show that had already been recorded.

So, today's episode has a title like "Blue Finds a Bone" educational, while yesterday's just says "educational" at the top of the description.

Now, whether their guide data is bad or the HR-20 isn't parsing it properly I can't say without seeing the raw data. But..hey to all those D employees that care...there's a place to start. Take a look at yesterday's Blue's Clues episode (Sunday) and today's. Both scheduled at 3PM ET on Noggin.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Okay, then. I will remember to not try to help you since you weren't looking for help, just warning others about the HR20.
> 
> Thanks for being such a good public citizen.
> 
> I will delete my Blue's Clues season list now. Forget anyone actually tried to help you.


Tony,

I have posted requests for help and am always thankful for the answers I get from some of the knowledgeable folks here. In the initial post I stated that I didn't think anyone here had an answer and was posting it in hopes that someone at DirecTV might take a look.

Posting an honest message or two hardly qualifies anyone as a good public citizen...but it beats purposely promoting some product to others if only to validate one's ego (which I am by no means suggesting that you do)

It was nice of you to attempt to help. I think I found at least part of the issue which is in the post preceding this one...and if what I saw is the case it has to be something that folks at D would have to be well aware of by this time.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Fine. Just tone down the bashing, huh? It is overdone. I see it in just about every post you make. If I were to discover something that would solve your problem, you turned off a person who was trying to help despite what I've seen of your caustic nature.

Yes, you have had issues but your posts read like a campaign against DirecTV. What does that do for anyone? Every provider has issues. Most of what we are here for is to work out those issues either as a community or with DirecTV. Just snarky bashing doesn't do anyone any good at all.

I don't see anything the mods would come down on you for. It is all your opinion and you are not violating any rules. But maybe you also don't know how you come off. If you do and it is intentional, then I will learn to ignore you. If it is not intentional, then just know how it does come off and we can all be friends.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> I think it was Steve Martin...but don't remember from what.


You got it! Steve Martin - Wild and Crazy Guy. Still have it on vinyl.

All :bowdown: to KenS!



Ken S said:


> BTW, I think I figured out at least part of the issue with some of the "educational" shows I've been trying to record.
> 
> After going through the history again...it seems sometimes the guide only shows "Educational" where the show's episode title would go. If that were getting put into the episode title slot then, I guess, the HR-20 would just consider it a repeat of a show that had already been recorded.
> 
> ...


By God, I think your on to something!

I went back into my history list, and _to the episode_, the ones with the error 13 all list "Educational" as the episode title. That's it. That's all that is there.

All of the programs that recorded properly look like:

"Bugs!" Educational (2001) Steve Burns, Traci Paige Johnson.

Here's a question, Ken. Did you get a successful recording on your other HR20? If so, what does the episode title look like on your other HR20? If you can find an instance of an episode that is properly parsed on one HR20, but not on the other, that would pretty much prove that the thing is having a hard time parsing the data correctly, on occasion.

One other thing. Upon closer inspection of my history list, I found an episode of CSI that failed to record as well (please, nobody tell my wife :eek2: ). It is from 6/28, and says partial in the history list. It has the same issue with the missing episode title. Instead, it just reads:

Action/Adventure, Drama, Mystery/Crime, Suspense.

Surely someone out there in the Denver DMA recorded this CSI episode, and has it in their history list. It was from Thursday 6/28, 8p-9p, on the CBS MPEG 4 channel, "4 KCNC". While it would be nice to know that other DMA's guide data was correct, I could really use confirmation from someone in Colorado, as my local guide data is different than those in other DMA's.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Fine. Just tone down the bashing, huh? It is overdone. I see it in just about every post you make. If I were to discover something that would solve your problem, you turned off a person who was trying to help despite what I've seen of your caustic nature.


The man has a problem with his unit and rightfully expresses his frustration. This isn't bashing. He's got a problem that others have verified with a specific show.

How about you crank down your "D* can do no wrong" attitude a bit?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> You got it! Steve Martin - Wild and Crazy Guy. Still have it on vinyl.
> 
> All :bowdown: to KenS!
> 
> ...


Cyg,

I'm going to check that in a little bit. Hopefully, I can match some up and we could at least feel reasonably sure whether the problem involves the HR-20 or the guide data itself.

Then we can...umm...I dunno go back to reading posts about DLB. (oops I'm sliding into being too mean again).

Thanks again for confirming my OP and finding some other corresponding data.

Seriously, maybe Earl or someone else here with a connection to DirecTV could take out all of the unnecessary discourse from this thread and send it along to D.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken,

The shows you have problems with are all kids shows, correct? On Disney and such?

I'm asking because I have a few shows set for similar settings and haven't had this problem, but they aren't kid shows (have no kids).

First is COPS. Yes, it's a weakness of mine. 
Anyway, CourtTV, Both, Keep 5 until full. It basically keeps the last 5 recorded replacing the oldest with the newest.

Other similar are on HDNet.
HDNet World Report and Dan Rather Presents (both highly recommended by the way) set to First Runs, Keep 3 until full. Again seems to keep just the latest 3 rotated in.

So as other allude to I'm thinking hinky guide data for a lot of these kids shows. Many of these channels just don't care about guide data in the first place. Either that or something in them is giving the HR20 fits. Do those with R15's have the same issue with these shows?

Can you post again the exact Series link configuration for Blues Clues and I'll set one up myself and see how it goes.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Cyg,
> 
> I'm going to check that in a little bit. Hopefully, I can match some up and we could at least feel reasonably sure whether the problem involves the HR-20 or the guide data itself.
> 
> ...


No problem Ken. I think I might start a general "error 13" thread, and see if we cant get some clamor, and on to the programmers to do list.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> No problem Ken. I think I might start a general "error 13" thread, and see if we cant get some clamor, and on to the programmers to do list.


I'll add my data and try to be nice in it


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Ken,
> 
> The shows you have problems with are all kids shows, correct? On Disney and such?
> 
> ...


Bon,

I'm thinking you posted this before reading all the way though (I know I do that far too often). I think we found the issue. Most of the kid's shows I've had issues with are labeled as "educational", but Cyg had a problem with CSI.

Bon and Cyg,

Just another thought...

The strange part is if the problem is what we think with the episode title missing and the show type being put in its place then why would th error note in the history log indicate a "partial recording" and not that a similar show existed. I know I've seen the "similar show" message in the log.

I wonder if the thing just kicks out the error 13 when the episode title is missing or there's characters in there that can't be displayed?

Cyg...You call the CSI team and I'll look for some pawprints and see if we can't get someone at D to sit down in their thinking chair!


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

I started a more general error 13 thread here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=91622


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Just additional data:

My Blue's Clues recorded today. It had a title in it. Did you say yours today did not, Ken?

I just looked at a search of Blue's Clues on my HR20. They all have titles. Do any of yours not have titles right now?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Just additional data:
> 
> My Blue's Clues recorded today. It had a title in it. Did you say yours today did not, Ken?


Today's did on both machines...yesterday's didn't. Today's recorded, yesterday's didn't on one...and recorded about 1 sec of black screen on the other.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

The one second of black screen is the most troubling part. If it is logic that is telling the unit to not record, why would it record one second?

The only other times I have had very short recordings was on the stations that turn on for that program (like the NGCHD sneak peeks) but every time that happened, I got a 0 second black screen and a full recording in seperate files.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> The one second of black screen is the most troubling part. If it is logic that is telling the unit to not record, why would it record one second?
> 
> The only other times I have had very short recordings was on the stations that turn on for that program (like the NGCHD sneak peeks) but every time that happened, I got a 0 second black screen and a full recording in seperate files.


It is...but it may not even have recorded a second...just made an entry and bailed. Could have been lucky/unlucky...the box could have been doing something else at the time and slowed the processor enough to allow the show to have been written. Hardware folks are always chirping about "timing issues". I'll make sure and note if it occurs again.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

I guess until it is fixed, you could set it to record manually at the same time every day right?


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## DblD_Indy (Dec 3, 2006)

"cygnusloop;999533]Be who your are. It takes all kinds, folks. If it's who you are, go right ahead and be "Obsequious, purple and clairvoyant."
(Big props to anyone who can cite that reference."

I will take those props! Got that hip tune on my ZEN, and always sing along.

Ken, as long as it does not miss DORA! Man, the stuff she can pull from that back-pack!

Oh, and the Big Comfy Couch! Lunette is so HOT! 

The sad thing Ken, is they won't be warned. Because they don't find the forum until after they get the box.

You can find as much help as you want here. within the limits of the help they want to give. So hey, only two years.....

Peace!


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Ken S said:


> It is...but it may not even have recorded a second...just made an entry and bailed. Could have been lucky/unlucky...the box could have been doing something else at the time and slowed the processor enough to allow the show to have been written. Hardware folks are always chirping about "timing issues". I'll make sure and note if it occurs again.


The thing is that unless it changed its mind just as the show was starting (and by that I mean, the guide data/indexing exchange removed the show as a candidate, which is quite unlikely), it tends me to think that there is something in the data stream itself that causes the box to bail on the show.

The only way I could think it was related to description data is if the box rechecks its todo list as it starts the recording and it is not cleaning up on itself.

That scenario would be:

- Guide data is examined and the show is put in the todo list.
- Guide data is updated and indexing occurs to update the todo list
- While the new data is coming in (perhaps incomplete), the Blue's Clues starts
- The software rechecks if it should record and the not-completed data says "no"

This is all guess work based upon what the HR20 may or may not do with updated guide information.

I guess I am more bored than I thought I was....


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

armophob said:


> I guess until it is fixed, you could set it to record manually at the same time every day right?


Armo, yes...I can...and that's what I've begun to do. Pretty soon I may just go back to videotape and that goofy numbering system (can't recall the name) for scheduling records.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

DblD_Indy said:


> "cygnusloop;999533]Be who your are. It takes all kinds, folks. If it's who you are, go right ahead and be "Obsequious, purple and clairvoyant."
> (Big props to anyone who can cite that reference."
> 
> I will take those props! Got that hip tune on my ZEN, and always sing along.
> ...


DB,

I did come here first and I believed all the people that shot down or minimized the complaints and said their's worked perfectly...etc. They may not have been lying...but...at least for me...it wasn't a "real" picture of the quality and dependability of this device.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> ... that goofy numbering system (can't recall the name) for scheduling records.


VCR+, IIRC. My grandmother loved it.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

For the record, Backyardigans and Wonder Pets were doing the same thing. I blew away the SLs and re-built them. Let's see if anything happens. We will find out how to fix this together!

"What's gonna work? Teamwork!" Man, that is a catchy tune.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> VCR+, IIRC. My grandmother loved it.


Yep, that's it VCR+. I actually found my old, original VCR+ remote when I moved a few months back...should have kept it .


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Unfortunately, with a lot of shows with little or no real guide data, manual recordings are the way to go with most DVRs.

But the shows Ken is trying to record have guide data so they should work.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Unfortunately, with a lot of shows with little or no real guide data, manual recordings are the way to go with most DVRs.


Manual recordings? Are you serious? Doesn't that turn your DVR into a VCR that records to a HD?

Why are there so many problems that are blamed on guide data? If the guide data for the HR20 is that bad, shouldn't it be a big priority to fix the guide data?

In the few weeks since I've had my HR20 I've noticed many more nondescript show descriptions. I've seen posts saying Tivo enhanced their guide data so the HR20 doesn't have that. If that's true, what's D*'s excuse for not enhancing the guide data themselves? Why when one moves from a Tivo to a HR20 does one have to accept a lower level of guide data?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> Manual recordings? Are you serious? Doesn't that turn your DVR into a VCR that records to a HD?
> 
> Why are there so many problems that are blamed on guide data? If the guide data for the HR20 is that bad, shouldn't it be a big priority to fix the guide data?
> 
> In the few weeks since I've had my HR20 I've noticed many more nondescript show descriptions. I've seen posts saying Tivo enhanced their guide data so the HR20 doesn't have that. If that's true, what's D*'s excuse for not enhancing the guide data themselves? Why when one moves from a Tivo to a HR20 does one have to accept a lower level of guide data?


Don't be a fool. Tivos have to do manual recordings, too. Otherwise you could get five showings a day of the Daily Show or Sportscenter.

DirecTV can't enhance guide data if the SOURCE doesn't give it.

As a matter of FACT, when DirecTV tried to make the guide data more useful it broke TIVO's software.

But, hey, why get in the way of a good rant?

EVERY DVR is limited by guide data. Even Tivo.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Look guys, you both make fair points, but we are trying to work a problem here. I think the debate you are about to light up is a good one, but please, let us work this problem in this thread. So, here comes the sign....

:backtotop


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

You know, I have noticed some of the kids shows seemingly not recording on an everyday basis. Little Einsteins and Backyardigens are two series links that seem to record at will. I just thought the shows were not on everyday. I will go home and check history and let you know.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

When people say the guide data is bad they seem to think that lets DirecTV off the hook. 

1. DirecTV can get better guide data, or correct what's wrong so, at the very least, it doesn't break their box.

2. It very well could be DirecTV that is corrupting the guide data in collection or the transmission process.

3. The HR-20 could also not be reading the guide data correctly.

It seems we're seeing a lot of this issue on kid's shows, but if you read the forums there are other similar complaints.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Don't be a fool. Tivos have to do manual recordings, too. Otherwise you could get five showings a day of the Daily Show or Sportscenter.


I have a SP setup for First Runs of TDS on my Tivo. I have it set to keep 10 at most (an option not available on the HR20). On Monday I get 2 extra shows (the morning ones) other than the real one at night. The rest of the week I get one show a day. The real one. I have yet to find a need for a manual record on my Tivos.

I don't watch Sportscenter.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Look guys, you both make fair points, but we are trying to work a problem here. I think the debate you are about to light up is a good one, but please, let us work this problem in this thread. So, here comes the sign....
> 
> :backtotop


I agree, there doesn't need to be a debate here as long as a general statement that "it's a guide data problem and all DVRs have it" isn't made. Guide data can cause problems. But the problems mentioned here are not seen on DTivo machines. So it's not a guide data problem form the source. It's a guide data problem as to how:

1) D* is processing the data
2) the HR20 is reading the data

Bad guide data seems to be the new catch all problem for those that think the HR20/R15 can do no wrong.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> I agree, there doesn't need to be a debate here as long as a general statement that "it's a guide data problem and all DVRs have it" isn't made. Guide data can cause problems. But the problems mentioned here are not seen on DTivo machines. So it's not a guide data problem form the source. It's a guide data problem as to how:
> 
> 1) D* is processing the data
> 2) the HR20 is reading the data
> ...


Since a "bad guide data" problem can come from either the source data or how the HR20 parses it, I don't see how that can be seen by anyone as an "HR20 can do no wrong" description.

Either way, it's D*'s problem. If they purchase the guide data from a source and it's no good, they need to pound on the source. If it's how the HR20 parses the data, then the parsing routine needs to be fixed.

Instead of assigning motivations to people, how about sticking to the problem?

None of this changes the probability that it IS a guide data/guide parsing problem, and not some hardware or other bug in the HR20. This would be good news as the fix would be pretty simple, albeit lengthy if D* has to pound on the guide supplier's desk.

Something IS clearly wrong. It would be nice to get some feedback from D* on what it is. Perhaps the reports (sans emotional outbursts) will get to them and we can look forward to a fix.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

hasan said:


> Something IS clearly wrong. It would be nice to get some feedback from D* on what it is. Perhaps the reports (sans emotional outbursts) will get to them and we can look forward to a fix.


Well said, hasan.

As we have three threads going on this now, I would like to make a request that I made in the CE thread. Since not everyone reads that forum, I would like to make it here as well. Please forgive the cross post.

*I encourage everyone to scan through their history list and look for canceled or partial recordings. If you find one, it will very likely be an error 13 (unless of course you canceled or stopped it yourself).*

I think you might be surprised what you find.

For me, this has been going on for at least a month, but because everything is in re-runs, and because a lot of it was happening on kids programs that I don't closely monitor, and because the HR20 will try to cover its tracks by recording a later showing if available, I didn't notice.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ok, scanned my history. surprising to see a lot of canceled shows with error 13. I've yet to miss anything as they all have multiple showings.

Every single canceled episode with error 13 did not have a title. Most had an episode description, some did not. But none had a title.
Now that's not to say I haven't had episodes with no title actually record. I have a few in my playlist right now. But every error 13 has no title.

Shows include Cops on CourtTV, Knitty Gritty on DIY (wife's show, I swear!), HDNet World report and Dan Rather on HDNet. I didn't come across any others but then right now it's pretty light recording time for me.

Methinks there is a pattern here to be sure. Hopefully Earl can direct the powers that be to this thread so that they are aware of the issue and perhaps with this information they can run some solid tests to find out the cause.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

I am sorry, I will stop. I was posting in response to post # 48 in which tonyd79 stated the same problems were found on non HR20 units and it was a guide problem in general. If tonyd79 can keep his mouth shut, so can I.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I think the problem should be named "The Wiggly Data Problem" .
Now, how about someone at D let us know that they recognize this issue and are doing something about it?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

So, I decided to go look at the Wiggles series record that I have setup.

It's set for BOTH, ALL, UNTIL DISK, CHANNEL 290 at 7AM ET. With 1min of padding before and 5 mins after.

It is high in the Prioritizer...but it hasn't recorded a show in weeks...Why?

Well, I looked at the episodes and the only shows it would even mark with the RR had NO EPISODE TITLE. All the shows with an episode title are not marked to be recorded. Editing and/or deleting and replacing the Series Record will not change this.

So, what of the episodes that it WILL attempt to record that have no episode title...you guessed it Cancelled with an error (13).

I then called my friend and asked them to see if their Wiggles episodes were recording properly. They have one of the Series 2 DirecTV Tivo DVRs. They have gotten every episode. They are 10 miles from us so I assume they are getting the same satellite feed for Disney.

I'm sure there are non-HR-20 possibilities for this problem...but at this point in time suggesting them is nothing more than avoiding the reality of where the problem lies.

I noticed and reported this problem starting two patches ago.

Yes, I have set manual records for the show...but of course you can't control the number of episodes that it records or even what condition will cause them to be deleted. I also have to monitor Disney to make sure the time of the show doesn't change and I'm going to get duplicates of similar episodes.

Would someone from DirecTV care to respond and apologize?


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Ken S said:


> I think the problem should be named "The Wiggly Data Problem" .
> Now, how about someone at D let us know that they recognize this issue and are doing something about it?


+1

I also nominate KenS for his work on this as a CEE.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Remember the guide data for the HR20 is not the same as the guide data for the TiVo.
However I agree with everyone that even if it is the guide data, this is still a DirecTV issue. If the guide data is continually incorrect then DirecTV should go to their guide provider Tribune and say this is unacceptable. After all, DirecTV is a customer of Tribune and just as we expect good customer service from DirecTV then they should expect it from Tribune.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> Remember the guide data for the HR20 is not the same as the guide data for the TiVo.
> However I agree with everyone that even if it is the guide data, this is still a DirecTV issue. If the guide data is continually incorrect then DirecTV should go to their guide provider Tribune and say this is unacceptable. After all, DirecTV is a customer of Tribune and just as we expect good customer service from DirecTV then they should expect it from Tribune.


Is it the guide stream or how the HR20 parses the guide stream, I don't think we know, yet.

But, and this is a BIG but, even IF it is the guide data, the HR20 ABSOLUTELY has to be more fault tolerant that it appears to be.

Fault tolerance is the hallmark of good software. Fault tolerance in a system that has as much variability as "TV from space" is critical. The software has to be bulletproof. It's not.

The guide stream will NEVER be perfect. The HR20 must be able to deal with that.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Blues Clues on NICK 299, Tuesday, 7/10, 8am MDT, failed to record.
Error 13.:nono2:


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

I found a few episodes of Wow, wow, Wubzy in history with the error 13. My series link settings are:
KAM: 2
New/Repeat: Both


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

LI-SVT said:


> I found a few episodes of Wow, wow, Wubzy in history with the error 13. My series link settings are:
> KAM: 2
> New/Repeat: Both


Thanks for the report.

I think I'm going to compile these reports and our findings and send them to DirecTV. Hopefully, they'll at the very least publicly admit there's an issue and either publish a workaround or fix it.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken, need to calm down a bit.  This thread is great in that it really is showing a pattern. If DirecTV hasn't seen this thread already Earl can let them know about it (just PM Earl). But poking the big bear isn't going to get anywhere.

As for fixing, it could be a 1 week fix or a 3 month fix. We just don't know. First they have to reproduce it on command.

Anyway, keep the reports coming, it can only help narrow the problem down.


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## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

I think I am experiencing the same/similar problem. After I read through this discussion I decided to go and look at my series links to see if I had any of the errors described.

I have a series link set up for The Wonder Pets on Noggin- Ch. 298. Settings are Both, Keep 3, until Disk Full and Start/Stop On-Time.

Scrolling through my history every episode from 7/2 - 7/6 at 4 pm shows it was "cancelled" when I get more information they all say "partially recorded because it became unavilable (13)"

Same thing happened for weekend episodes on 7/7 at 9 and 11 am and again on 7/8 at 9 am.

In looking at future episodes I see something odd. Many of the episodes are not titled "The Wonder Pets" rather they begin with the episode title. But it strikes me as goofy that they are somehow recognized by the system as being WP episodes or else they wouldn't display in the list, would they??? Anyway, those that show WP as the title are "scheduled" to record, but those that have the episode title are going to be skipped. 

See attached screen shot (assuming I've uploaded it correctly) if the above paragraph doesn't explain it well. The highlighted show that indicates it will record displays "The Wonder Pets" Other episodes above it show only the episode title.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Thanks for the report RegGeek!

So looking at the attachment, It appears that the episode title is in the place of the show title. That sounds a lot like the history list where the show type is in the place of the episode title. That looks like a pawprint to me. 

It appears that in the shows that are going to have this problem, all the data is shifted "one field to the left".

Good Job! Perhaps an important clue.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Thanks for the report RegGeek!
> 
> So looking at the attachment, It appears that the episode title is in the place of the show title. That sounds a lot like the history list where the show type is in the place of the episode title. That looks like a pawprint to me.
> 
> ...


What kind of clue? Why a Blue's Clue of course.

Just had to lighten the mood a bit.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Ok, now this is getting to be a problem for me. DS and Colbert did not record last night and I got error 13 on them both.

Update:I have those set for first run. Could a repeat issue. I am setting them back to both.
Update#2:I have been through 235 history items since the last download and have not found any error 13 unwarranted besides the DS and CR. But those have been a known Comedy Central issue forever. Some ST:enterprises, but they were repeats.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Ken, need to calm down a bit.  This thread is great in that it really is showing a pattern. If DirecTV hasn't seen this thread already Earl can let them know about it (just PM Earl). But poking the big bear isn't going to get anywhere.
> 
> As for fixing, it could be a 1 week fix or a 3 month fix. We just don't know. First they have to reproduce it on command.
> 
> Anyway, keep the reports coming, it can only help narrow the problem down.


Bon,

I thank you for your concern, but I'm really not all that upset. Is there something wrong with sending the information to DirecTV?

Earl seems to be pretty aware of the threads on this board and I think Cyg mentioned he sent a PM to him. For whatever reason (and I read nothing negative into it) he has chosen not to publicly acknowledge this thread...hey...he could just be busy.

I sent an email to their tech support group about this same problem weeks ago. I posted it on their forums and I called it in. Never heard any kind of response. We have some more data...I'll give it another shot. I'm not even "mean" or "upset" when I communicate with them. Trust me, I don't obsessively call or write DirecTV. I'm actually getting better I only circle their headquarters 40 - 50 times a day lately.

If I was upset I'd be calling my friends that handle "class action" lawsuits. But...I don't like them (class action lawsuits, not my friends :lol: ) I think they're of no help to the actual harmed parties and just serve as boxes of cash for the law firms and marketing opportunities for the defendant.

As for poking the big bear? Please...I fully understand a fix may take quite awhile (if it's even feasible) but a recognition of the report and maybe of the problem would be nice.

Oh, for the record I'm just kidding about circling their HQ.

Y'know if I could just get my regular helping of Big Red Car and Monkey Dance I could go away.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

armophob said:


> Ok, now this is getting to be a problem for me. DS and Colbert did not record last night and I got error 13 on them both.
> 
> Update:I have those set for first run. Could a repeat issue. I am setting them back to both.
> Update#2:I have been through 235 history items since the last download and have not found any error 13 unwarranted besides the DS and CR. But those have been a known Comedy Central issue forever. Some ST:enterprises, but they were repeats.


armophob,

If the HR-20 is canceling a recording because the show is a repeat of something you have recorded previously it generally gives a different error message. I think it says the show had been already recorded and gives a code (10). The code 13 seems to go along with the partial recording error.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Thanks for the report RegGeek!
> 
> So looking at the attachment, It appears that the episode title is in the place of the show title. That sounds a lot like the history list where the show type is in the place of the episode title. That looks like a pawprint to me.
> 
> ...


Cyg,

The really sad/funny part about this is the actual problem is most likely caused by a missing field delimiter like a "," or CR/Line Feed.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Cyg,
> 
> The really sad/funny part about this is the actual problem is most likely caused by a missing field delimiter like a "," or CR/Line Feed.


Yup. My guess is, once this is found, it's likely a very easy fix. (That's just a guess, so please, don't bombard me with posts about the complexities of modern embedded software.)

Which gets me back to (one) of my original questions:

*Can we find an instance of the guide data being "shifted" on one HR20, but not on another, for a specific program. *

This would be a very important Blue's clue. Perhaps, as more people begin to look through their history lists and find problems (which are beginning to appear quite ubiquitous), we can continue to compare notes and determine the source of this issue.

So, please folks, when you get an opportunity, scan your history list for programs that show canceled or partial. Additionally, as RegGeek showed, you can also spot this issue beforehand by looking at the episodes list for a program for which you have a Series Link.

Thanks to all that have posted their issues thus far.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken S said:


> Is there something wrong with sending the information to DirecTV?


Not at all, and I think you should (although we know it will just get lost in CSR hell). I just had the feeling you were frustrated without an "official" statement from DirecTV and I certainly wouldn't expect there ever to be one.

No harm done.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Wrong place for this question, but are you seeing this in x179. Has anyone tried going back to the NR and see if it still does this?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

armophob said:


> Wrong place for this question, but are you seeing this in x179. Has anyone tried going back to the NR and see if it still does this?


Armo,

I only use the NR version of the software. I noticed this problem two releases ago...that's not to say it wasn't happening before though.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

armophob said:


> Ok, now this is getting to be a problem for me. DS and Colbert did not record last night and I got error 13 on them both.
> 
> Update:I have those set for first run. Could a repeat issue. I am setting them back to both.
> Update#2:I have been through 235 history items since the last download and have not found any error 13 unwarranted besides the DS and CR. But those have been a known Comedy Central issue forever. Some ST:enterprises, but they were repeats.


IIRC DS is on repeats this week. Anytime they do that the descriptions and titles are meaningless and even Tivos record them as new.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

armophob said:


> Wrong place for this question, but are you seeing this in x179. Has anyone tried going back to the NR and see if it still does this?


Yeah, I'm on 179. And as Ken said, he's on the NR. In looking at my history list, it appears it's been happening through, at least, the last several CE's.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

armophob said:


> ...have not found any error 13 unwarranted besides the DS and CR.


Just a question so that I'm not misunderstanding. You have some error 13's that are, in fact, warranted?


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Yes, I have ST:Enterprise set to first run on 79HDN. The repeats are in the history as canceled "This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable. (13).

Until this thread I have not spent very much time in the history so I cannot speak of whether they have always said that.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

armophob said:


> Yes, I have ST:Enterprise set to first run on 79HDN. The repeats are in the history as canceled "This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable. (13).
> 
> Until this thread I have not spent very much time in the history so I cannot speak of whether they have always said that.


One more question on the matter.
Does the program data (titles, type, etc...) look correct on the ST: Enterprise repeats, or does it appear to be "shifted" like the problem programs that we are seeing?

Thanks, again, for helping.


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## funkeruski (Feb 4, 2006)

My HR20 has been flawless in recording the weekly 30 minute Thomas & Friends episode on Saturdays on PBS. My 2.5 year old son would put an asswhipping on me if it wasn't gettig recorded.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> One more question on the matter.
> Does the program data (titles, type, etc...) look correct on the ST: Enterprise repeats, or does it appear to be "shifted" like the problem programs that we are seeing?
> 
> Thanks, again, for helping.


All the canceled ST:E's are generic like this. I cannot say what the real titles were, but I have now set mine to both on that show also. I am beginning to doubt it has been trustworthy in what it is canceling. All upcoming episodes are specific in title and description, yet I have 15-20 canceled episodes that have this description.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

armophob said:


> All the canceled ST:E's are generic like this. I cannot say what the real titles were, but I have now set mine to both on that show also. I am beginning to doubt it has been trustworthy in what it is canceling. All upcoming episodes are specific in title and description, yet I have 15-20 canceled episodes that have this description.


Missing episode titles with the category shifted over. We're just guessing but either the HR-20 believes the show is a repeat and doesn't record because it has another show with the same title - OR- what is in the episode title spot is garbled, won't display and is causing the HR-20 to break and not record.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Wednesday 7/11 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13

Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Wednesday 7/11 9am MDT - Partial - The showing is over.

This is 5 straight (week)days that Blues Clues has failed to record.

Hello?


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

armophob said:


> Yes, I have ST:Enterprise set to first run on 79HDN. The repeats are in the history as canceled "This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable. (13).
> 
> Until this thread I have not spent very much time in the history so I cannot speak of whether they have always said that.


I also have Enterprise setup as a SL (channel 79HDN and Scifi) and I've been getting every repeat on both channels. No problems at all...other than starting late... Hr20-100 on x168.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

bto4wd said:


> I also have Enterprise setup as a SL (channel 79HDN and Scifi) and I've been getting every repeat on both channels. No problems at all...other than starting late... Hr20-100 on x168.


Has yours been set to first only or both? Mine was set to first. Now I changed it.

update: I set ST:E on 1st HR20 to record both, now set the 2nd to record first run. Only trouble is the second has never recorded the series before and may skew the results. If the trouble does not repeat itself I will flip them.


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## cynical2 (Oct 16, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Missing episode titles with the category shifted over. We're just guessing but either the HR-20 believes the show is a repeat and doesn't record because it has another show with the same title - OR- what is in the episode title spot is garbled, won't display and is causing the HR-20 to break and not record.


FWIW, I looked through my history of 188 recordings. I had 2 Error 13's. One was on "Medium" and one was on "Crossing Jordan". They were on consecutive days...6/22 and 6/23 I believe.

The guide data appeared perfectly normal on both bad recordings...I had many other "good" recordings of both shows to compare to, and saw nothing different. Sounds like it may be a guide issue on some Error 13's, but not all...


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## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Wednesday 7/11 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13
> 
> Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Wednesday 7/11 9am MDT - Partial - The showing is over.
> 
> ...


That is odd. How are the weekend ones? I ask becuase the Wonder Pets that have recorded lately seem to be the weekend ones. The weekdays have been a real pest.

"This is serious." "We have to help them!" "Let's save the HR20!"

Yeah, I've watched that show waaaay too much.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

RegGeek said:


> That is odd. How are the weekend ones?


The particular showing that I have set up on my SL (8am MST - NIK1) is Monday through Friday, (sometimes Monday through Thursday for some reason). So there is no weekend showings. I think I'll set up showings on another channel just to see what happens.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

armophob said:


> Has yours been set to first only or both? Mine was set to first. Now I changed it.
> 
> update: I set ST:E on 1st HR20 to record both, now set the 2nd to record first run. Only trouble is the second has never recorded the series before and may skew the results. If the trouble does not repeat itself I will flip them.


I've had mine set to Both. But my HR20 is only 3 weeks old.

Just a though so everyone try to follow....

Could this have something to do with the guide data being stored on the HD? originally the guide data was downloaded at every reboot. Then, due to complaints, D* cached drive data to the HD to speed up the repopulation of the data. Supose the HD copy gets corrupeted. And suppose that corruption keeps lingering.

Does the HR20 have something like the Clear and Delete Guide Data/Todo List like the Tivos do? I can see a need from time to time to clear out the HD cache of the guide data and let everything come in new and clean.

I'll setup some Wiggles shows but I'm out of town until Saturday.


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

I have setup (again) Little Einsteins, and WonderPets on 2 separate channels. I'll post the results here when enough programs have been recorded (or not!)


Glad to know many others fill up their hard drive with kids programming. We were staying in a condo on vacation last week, relaxing after a day on the beach, when my daughter asks "Does the TV have a 'button' on it?".....She wanted to pause the program. 

Didn't take her long to learn the benefits of technology! Bathroom breaks without missing a minute of action!


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

MikeR said:


> "Does the TV have a 'button' on it?".....She wanted to pause the program.


Thanks for testing, MikeR!
My two year old has no concept of "scheduled" television. When we were on vacation, he was just baffled (and _mad_) because Sesame Street wasn't available with the press of a remote.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Thanks for testing, MikeR!
> My two year old has no concept of "scheduled" television. When we were on vacation, he was just baffled (and _mad_) because Sesame Street wasn't available with the press of a remote.


Exactly. My grand daughter (7) comes over and cannot understand why I don't have 5 episodes of Hannah Montana. I have to explain that grandpa did record HM and so we can only watch it "live". She doesn't get it.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

armophob said:


> update: I set ST:E on 1st HR20 to record both, now set the 2nd to record first run. Only trouble is the second has never recorded the series before and may skew the results. If the trouble does not repeat itself I will flip them.


update#2 Both HR20's recorded the last episode and had full descriptions. I now flipped the recordings to make the primary HR set to first run.

I suspect that it will not record and give a 13 error. And the second will, labeling the episode as one the first has recorded in the past.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Thanks for testing, MikeR!
> My two year old has no concept of "scheduled" television. When we were on vacation, he was just baffled (and _mad_) because Sesame Street wasn't available with the press of a remote.


Three letters fix that issue...

DVD


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Three letters fix that issue...
> 
> DVD


Well, yeah, but that would require prior planning and a modicum of intelligence on my part.:grin:

Oh, by the way,

Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Wednesday 7/12 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13

Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Wednesday 7/12 9am MDT - Partial - The showing is over.

This is 6 straight days that Blues Clues has failed to record.

An interesting thing here, (and this may have been the case before), I looked at these episodes in the guide yesterday, and the data appeared fine.

In the history list, after failing to record, the information is missing/generic, like all my other error 13's.

*Tap, tap*..... Is this thing on?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Cyg,

The show info was complete before the recording and missing after it failed?

Here's one I just noticed. Tuesday's live broadcast of the Tour de France on Versus (608). Error 13. It didn't have the episode title in the description and just had "Sports, Cycling, Racing. Other days of the race have listed "Tour de France, Stage # Sports, Cycling, Racing (2007).

This occurred on two HR-20s. The machine then picked up one of the rebroadcasts later in the day.

I wonder if anyone at D considers this a problem?



cygnusloop said:


> Well, yeah, but that would require prior planning and a modicum of intelligence on my part.:grin:
> 
> Oh, by the way,
> 
> ...


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

Early report so far-
Day 1: Recorded 4 episodes of Wonder Pets and 1 episode of Little Einsteins. I have had issues of never being able to get more than 4-5 episodes each. Checked the TO Do list and show 48? scheduled!

One thing I noticed was that the Wonder Pets descriptions seemed to have more detail (better formatted as well?), not like previous when I would not get any recordings. Set at Record "BOTH" - but that didn't seem to change things before. I'll follow through with this setting, and check first run next.

I'll have to wait until I get a failure before making an assessment.


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Cyg,
> 
> The show info was complete before the recording and missing after it failed?


I've noticed that as well, and believe it has been reported here someplace. The program descriptions after recording are much shorter and less detailed oftentimes, particularly on the "Blues Clues" type shows.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Cyg,
> 
> The show info was complete before the recording and missing after it failed?
> 
> ...


Yeah, when i looked at the description in the guide, and in the episode list, it appeared fine. I thought to myself, hey, self, it looks like a Blues Clues is gonna record! But, nada.

Guess what else....

I, too, have an SL for the Tour, and mine recorded just fine on Tuesday. Hmm....
the Blues Clues that was scheduled on the other tuner during Le Tour broadcast, didn't, as previously reported.

With all the chatter about timing issues lately, It got me thinking about that possibility again. (That, plus the fact that my Tour program recorded, and yours didn't).

This is just a BS theory, and, as Ken would say, worth about what your paying for it, but here goes...

Suppose the HR20 is to record Blues Clues at 8am. By whatever clock it goes by, it starts trying to record at that time. Maybe there is some kind of lag in the guide data switching over, maybe seconds, maybe milliseconds, and when it tries to start, the guide data doesn't match, and, BAM, error 13 the program became unavailable. (Which is to say that, to the HR20, it wasn't available at the time the recording started.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

All my Star Trek test results have changed since the new CE. I officially bow out of this discussion.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Well, credit where credit is due, Blues Clues seems to be recording this week. 
However,

Family Guy - 7/16 - 7:00pm MDT - Cancelled - error 13
Family Guy - 7/16 - 7:30pm MDT - Cancelled - error 13


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Well, credit where credit is due, Blues Clues seems to be recording this week.
> However,
> 
> Family Guy - 7/16 - 7:00pm MDT - Cancelled - error 13
> Family Guy - 7/16 - 7:30pm MDT - Cancelled - error 13


Hey, a DVR with taste!

:lol:


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## MikeR (Oct 6, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Well, credit where credit is due, Blues Clues seems to be recording this week.


As well as Little Einsteins and Wonder Pets.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> Hey, a DVR with taste!
> 
> :lol:


Now THAT's funny!


----------



## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

I realize I am jumping in late and am not even sure if this is the correct forum, HR-20's only? I have an R-15, but I did a forum search for my particular problem, and up popped this awesome discussion!! I was fruitlessly searching for an explanation as to why my "Wiggles" series link was not working correctly. So it is not us the HR-20. It is also the R-15's. From what I can see in other threads, it appears to be problematic for any show that is on daily versus weekly. I don't get specific error messages in the history, just "cancelled". Also, the shows in my history do not list any info or titles, so I cannot help with that research. I do know that the "To Do List" used to show many, many "Wiggles" episodes that were not going to record. Sometimes they are duplicates of ones already recorded, but not all. I also noticed that sometimes only the name "Wiggles" was shown, and other times an actual episode name was shown.

I hope that helps add a bit of data for the thinking chair!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Supra,

Thanks...I still seem some cancellations on some shows...they tend to get picked up by alternate showings. It has been reported to DirecTV via email and on their forums and here. If they want to fix the issue they will...they certainly don't seem to think acknowledging problems is important.



Supramom2000 said:


> I realize I am jumping in late and am not even sure if this is the correct forum, HR-20's only? I have an R-15, but I did a forum search for my particular problem, and up popped this awesome discussion!! I was fruitlessly searching for an explanation as to why my "Wiggles" series link was not working correctly. So it is not us the HR-20. It is also the R-15's. From what I can see in other threads, it appears to be problematic for any show that is on daily versus weekly. I don't get specific error messages in the history, just "cancelled". Also, the shows in my history do not list any info or titles, so I cannot help with that research. I do know that the "To Do List" used to show many, many "Wiggles" episodes that were not going to record. Sometimes they are duplicates of ones already recorded, but not all. I also noticed that sometimes only the name "Wiggles" was shown, and other times an actual episode name was shown.
> 
> I hope that helps add a bit of data for the thinking chair!


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Supra,
> 
> Thanks...I still seem some cancellations on some shows...they tend to get picked up by alternate showings. It has been reported to DirecTV via email and on their forums and here. If they want to fix the issue they will...they certainly don't seem to think acknowledging problems is important.


Ken, are any of these shows that are cancelled in the same time slots as other recordings? I know this is stretching things a bit, but I had a similar problem until I found that one of my tuners was dead. Once I rebooted and the tuner came back to life, the cancelled show problems disappeared.

Bob


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

azarby said:


> Ken, are any of these shows that are cancelled in the same time slots as other recordings? I know this is stretching things a bit, but I had a similar problem until I found that one of my tuners was dead. Once I rebooted and the tuner came back to life, the cancelled show problems disappeared.
> 
> Bob


azarby,

While I've seen the problem you talk about...that wasn't the case on this one box. There was only one thing scheduled to be recorded and nothing was being watched.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Just checked my history and all of the (13) errors were either Dan Rather Reports or Blues Clues.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Canis Lupus said:


> Just checked my history and all of the (13) errors were either Dan Rather Reports or Blues Clues.


There ya go. Makes perfect sense to me. :grin:


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

So, after some success in recording Blues Clues for a while....

*Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Monday 7/30 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13*

A little more investigation of the history list revealed...

*CSI - 4 KCNC (Denver) - Thursday 7/26 8pm MDT - Partial - The showing is over.*

Both of these programs exhibit the same symptom as all my other error 13's or "partial" (read: completely missed) recordings: The Title is missing, and all other fields are "shifted" to the left. Blues Clues recorded fine on my SD-DVR40 in the other room.

Perhaps it is bad guide data. That said, the HR20 must deal with bad guide data more gracefully.

Once again, I encourage anyone who read this far to *check your history list*, you may be surprised.

:nono2:


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Well, I have an error 13 on the 8am showing of Blues Clues again today...

Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Tuesday 7/31 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13

But here's an interesting thing...

The HR20, for some reason, recorded the 5:30am showing (I didn't even know there was a 5:30am showing), and it was the same episode that failed to record at 8am.

Now, the HR20 should have (I think) reported an error 10, [This episode was canceled because another matching program was scheduled to record (10)]. Of course it didn't because the title was missing from program information, so it tried to record what would have been a duplicate, and failed with an error 13.

Sorry if anyone feels this is an unnecessary bump, but my hope is that somewhere in here is the critical piece of information that will help finally squash this bug.

The "good guide data" image is the 5:30am showing that recorded properly, and has apparently good guide data. The "bad guide data" image is the one that failed, even though it shouldn't have tried to record it in the first place. As you can see, the title info is missing, but from the program description, you can see that it is the same episode.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

never changed my star trek settings. I will check tomorrow.


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## Chuck584 (Apr 17, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Well, I have an error 13 on the 8am showing of Blues Clues again today...
> 
> Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Tuesday 7/31 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13
> 
> ...


I came on this thread by searching for Error 13

It just happened to me last night. I have the show Just for Laughs on ABC set to:

Record Series
First Run
All Episodes
Disk Full
1 min Early (HR20 isn't very good at knowing the time)
On-time

There were two different episodes on tonight. One at 8 PM and one at 8:30.

The 8:30 showing recorded fine.

The 8:00 didn't record. In History it says: "This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable. (13)"

My Philips DSR704 recorded both episodes without issue...


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## Chuck584 (Apr 17, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Perhaps it is bad guide data. That said, the HR20 must deal with bad guide data more gracefully.
> 
> Once again, I encourage anyone who read this far to *check your history list*, you may be surprised.
> 
> :nono2:


:eek2:

Okay, I checked my History.

HDNET Concert Series yesterday 4PM cancelled error 13
Star Trek: Enterprise yesterday 1PM cancelled error 13
Star Trek: Enterprise yesterday 3AM cancelled error 13
Star Trek: Enterprise yesterday 12AM cancelled error 13
HDNET Concert Series Mon 7/30 4PM cancelled error 13
....

I suspect this may be an undocumented feature. It may have detected I own Star Trek: Enterprise on DVD and decided I don't need to see it in HD. Or maybe it wanted to save the room for other shows since I have the series on DVD.

I wondered why I wasn't running out of space.

sigh...


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Chuck584 said:


> :eek2:
> 
> I suspect this may be an undocumented feature. It may have detected I own Star Trek: Enterprise on DVD and decided I don't need to see it in HD. Or maybe it wanted to save the room for other shows since I have the series on DVD.
> 
> ...


:thats: :thats: :thats: !rolling !rolling !rolling

Seriously, Chuck, thanks for the data. 
Keep it coming, folks.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The Blue's Clues problems are starting again. Also getting the cancelled recordings on Jack's Big Music Show...and...Thomas and Friends are starting 2 minutes late...which is bad because it is a five minute show.


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## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

Ken,
I didn't make the connection to this error (13) problem earlier... but the Thomas starting late issue you mention... I also record those showings and had to add a buffer to the beginning to ever get the whole episode.

Just an update on my Wonder Pets issue. I gave up on the series link and have just set up manual recordings.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Guess what!

Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Wednesday 8/1 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13

Come on, D*.

_When you use your mind to take a step out of time.... You can do.... anything.... That you wanna do._
:icon_band


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## Chuck584 (Apr 17, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> :thats: :thats: :thats: !rolling !rolling !rolling
> 
> Seriously, Chuck, thanks for the data.
> Keep it coming, folks.


Update on the cancelled shows.

For the Just For Laughs - When I watched it on TiVo today, the 8PM showing is a repeat. I checked the scheduler again and the show is set to "Both"

For the Star Trek: Enterprise episodes - They started showing it from the beginning again. I checked the scheduler again and the show is set to "Both"


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Chuck584 said:


> Update on the cancelled shows.
> 
> For the Just For Laughs - When I watched it on TiVo today, the 8PM showing is a repeat. I checked the scheduler again and the show is set to "Both"
> 
> For the Star Trek: Enterprise episodes - They started showing it from the beginning again. I checked the scheduler again and the show is set to "Both"


And even if it wasn't supposed to record the repeat, that should be an error 10, IIRC, not an error 13. I think that the First Run/Both issue doesn't even come into play, because with the title missing, the HR20 doesn't know if it's a repeat or not. That is, however, just a guess. I don't have any solid information about what data field the HR20 uses to determine whether or not a show is a repeat.

I do know that it won't record a "valid" repeat episode if the episode is already in the playlist (nor should it IMHO), and I don't believe that the HR20 uses the history list to determine if an episode was recorded in the last 30 or so days like the TiVo did.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Just a thought on the ST: Enterprise stuff...

I don't use a SL to record ST:E. I look through the guide and cherry-pick the episodes that I want from time to time by highlighting the future program and pressing (R). I have never had an issue with any one-time record program, including one of the episodes that you listed as missed, Chuck. And some of the successful one-time recordings definitely have had the guide data issue that we have been discussing.

My thought here being that this clearly has something to do with SL's, as opposed to one-time recordings. I think we already knew this, but I thought I would throw it out there anyway to see if someone has had a different experience.

Once again, thanks to everyone who is helping out with this issue.


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## AlexCF (Oct 14, 2006)

I've been seeing the error 13 fairly often on CourtTV, and it's been going on for some time. It likes to cancel recordings of "Beach Patrol" and "Most Shocking". I've got several episodes of "Beach Patrol" that run for 20 minutes (it's a 30 minute show) that have this error. With "Most Shocking", I've had occasions where I'm watching the show as it's recording and seen the record light go out. AFAIK, this hasn't affected any other shows I watch on other channels.

"This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable (13)."

At the very least, it'd be nice if the DVR had the common sense to grab the next showing of the same episode when this happens. Let alone, you know.. recording the show properly in the first place.

Screenshots from one episode shown, second image is scrolled down to see the error.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Is the guide data that the DirecTivos get from a different source than the HR20s data? I've been checking episode for episode with a friend that has a DirecTivo and they're getting the shows recorded that I'm not.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Is the guide data that the DirecTivos get from a different source than the HR20s data? I've been checking episode for episode with a friend that has a DirecTivo and they're getting the shows recorded that I'm not.


I don't know if the source is different, but apparently TiVo "enhances" the guide data that they receive.

Episode for episode, my DirecTivo in the other room successfully records the Blues Clues that the HR20 misses. The guide data looks fine on all the TiVo'd episodes.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Is the guide data that the DirecTivos get from a different source than the HR20s data? I've been checking episode for episode with a friend that has a DirecTivo and they're getting the shows recorded that I'm not.


I'm not sure what the answer is to that. But regardless, we continue to see that Tivos record these problem shows properly and HR20s do not. I that's a guide problem for the HR20, then D* needs to work on the guide problem. If it's a problem with how the HR20 handles the guide, then D* needs to work on the HR20 problem.

Bottom line is D* needs to fix it.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

As I posted earlier, all my history (13)s were Dan Rather Reports and Blues Clues. 

However, I am successfully getting Dan on a consistent basis. So I imagine I should be getting a (10) for those non-records as well. 

Of course, there's never any info for Dan (always "No information available. 2007. News" or whatever) anyway, so I don't even know how I'm getting them properly if I'm set to first run. I'll double check on that to see if I have it on first-run or both. 

I'll also check Blues Clues and see how I have that set, although First Run on that one is unlikely.


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah, gotta agree, this has been a frustration in my short time moving from DirectTivo (actually, I still have one running) to a couple of HR-20s. In my 3 or so years of using the Tivo, I can't recall ever having it "miss" a show. If the Tivo gets better guide data, or whatever the problem is, D* needs to take accountability and do what needs to be done to make the box work the way it should. People posting here are likely more technical than average and have the benefit of access to the resources on this board - imagine the frustration of the average person who has this DVR and is just seeing the shows not getting recorded.

As long as they acknowledge an problem and work on fixing it, I'm happy. I just hope they realize there is an issue and take some accountability.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

fudpucker said:


> Yeah, gotta agree, this has been a frustration in my short time moving from DirectTivo (actually, I still have one running) to a couple of HR-20s. In my 3 or so years of using the Tivo, I can't recall ever having it "miss" a show. If the Tivo gets better guide data, or whatever the problem is, D* needs to take accountability and do what needs to be done to make the box work the way it should. People posting here are likely more technical than average and have the benefit of access to the resources on this board - imagine the frustration of the average person who has this DVR and is just seeing the shows not getting recorded.
> 
> As long as they acknowledge an problem and work on fixing it, I'm happy. I just hope they realize there is an issue and take some accountability.


There has been no word from DirecTV on this issue, but Earl Bonovich, a moderator here, says that they are aware of this thread and the issue. Whether that means we'll see a fix I dunno.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Just a reminder, it is the R-15's as well. Again, it looks like it is a problem that is occuring for shows that are on daily - therfore not really a "series" that the SL link needs to work correctly.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Supramom2000 said:


> Just a reminder, it is the R-15's as well. Again, it looks like it is a problem that is occuring for shows that are on daily - therfore not really a "series" that the SL link needs to work correctly.


While it's mostly daily recurring programs (as they come up, well, daily), it is also happening on weekly primetime series programs, such as CSI. It is also happening on irregularly scheduled programs like ST: Enterprise on HDNet. The common thread is that it is set up as a SL, not a one-time record.

Thanks for the reminder regarding the R-15.


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## BubbaDude (May 22, 2007)

I got an error 13 on a baseball game yesterday on FSN Bay Area in HD, broadcast on channel 96. The HR20 recorded 56 minutes of the game, then quit recording with an error "Canceled - Show was partially recorded and became unavailable (13)". The SD version of the same game was successfully recorded by my Philips DSR6000 Series 1 TiVo. And some Dan Rather got the same error at the same time.

It didn't make any difference this time because I was actually at the game live and in person, but if I didn't have multiple backups to the HR20 I would have been very sad. 

Now this doesn't mean that DirecTV is not the greatest company in the whole world and that the HR20 isn't the most marvelous piece of technology since the Great Pyramids of Geza, just that an error 13 occurred in the Frisco Bay Area on Tuesday night at 7:56 PM PDT. Two errors, actually, but who's counting?

Show became unavailable (13).


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## Chuck584 (Apr 17, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Just a thought on the ST: Enterprise stuff...
> 
> I don't use a SL to record ST:E. I look through the guide and cherry-pick the episodes that I want from time to time by highlighting the future program and pressing (R). I have never had an issue with any one-time record program, including one of the episodes that you listed as missed, Chuck. And some of the successful one-time recordings definitely have had the guide data issue that we have been discussing.
> 
> ...


When I signed up for HD, I pretty much transferred my Wishlist from a TiVo with huge capacity, hence the Enterprise Season Pass, er, Series Link. And I do enjoy seeing them in HD.

I've noted your method for assuring recording by selecting episodes. Sort of defeats the idea of Season Pass, er, um Series Link. 

Today's Error 13 report
HDNET Concert Series 4PM
No guide data recorded

The Simpsons (Local channel 53 Pittsburgh) 6:30 PM (SL set to First Run Only)
Generic Simpsons Episode description

The Simpsons (Local channel 53 Pittsburgh) 7PM (SL set to First Run Only)
Generic Simpsons Episode description

The DirecTV TiVo recorded both Simpson episodes without issue. HDNET is on the HR20 only as it is HD. (To state the obvious).

Am I detecting an HR20 bias against animated shows? :lol:

May this be an undocumented feature? An attempt by DirecTV to elevate and refine our viewing habits?


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## BubbaDude (May 22, 2007)

Probably not, I reported my problem with the baseball game on the DirecTV tech forum, and another guy said his stopped recording "Damaged" at exactly the same time that mine stopped. DTV has a system problem they're not telling us about. For our own good, of course, because DTV is the best company in the world and the HR20 is perfect, etc.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Chuck584 said:


> I've noted your method for assuring recording by selecting episodes. Sort of defeats the idea of Season Pass, er, um Series Link.


I wasn't suggesting it as a workaround, although, I guess it is a bad one. The point I wanted to make was that, for whatever reason, if it's a one-time recording, the bad guide data doesn't result in the error 13 type missed recording.

I was also hoping that it might be a blue's clue for some bright young programmer in El Segundo.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Once again....
*
Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Thursday 8/2 5:30am MDT - Partial *
It recorded the last 10 minutes of a 30 minute program. There were no other recordings scheduled during this time. This is a new twist, at least for me. * EDIT: *After a little digging around, I think I can chalk this one up to a small power glitch. Only enough to reset a couple of clocks in the house, but enough to reboot the HR20. Guess it's time to get a UPS.

*Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Thursday 8/2 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13*
:nono:


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## Jim B (Feb 4, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Once again....
> *
> Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Thursday 8/2 5:AM MDT - Partial *
> It recorded the last 10 minutes of a 30 minute program. There were no other recordings scheduled during this time. This is a new twist, at least for me.
> ...


Cy,

New to the posting on this thread, but after reviewing, I got to wonder if your pic is you or your child? The diligence on the tracking makes me think the picture is you..... :grin:

Seriously, I too have a three year old who doesn't understand the concept of live TV, and is now spoiled for life now that he gets Blue & Steve, Mickey et al, Diego, etc, on the 42" plasma..... SO, I took a look at my history and have none of the errors you note now. However, I did have them at one time until just recently removing all the SLs because his shows took up over 50% of the drive (at one time I think we had 50 plus episodes of Blue, and I had to tell him we just had to
* sit right down and delete, delete, delete * 

So, for testing purposes, would it help if I added the SLs to both my HR20 and R15 to post results? If so, tell me exactly what the SLs are that you use and I'll do my part....


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Jim B said:


> Cy,
> 
> New to the posting on this thread, but after reviewing, I got to wonder if your pic is you or your child? The diligence on the tracking makes me think the picture is you..... :grin:


Well, the avatar is the child, but I guess it's clear who is running things in this house!:lol:

For the most part, he watches his Blues Clues, Elmo, etc... on my (I mean his) SD-DVR40 DTiVo in the family room (a two year old with his own TiVo, talk about spoiled! :nono2. But, it is really nice to sit with him on my lap in front of the big TV from time to time an bliss out on some Blue.

Since it's really not that critical that all episodes of Blues Clues make it on to the HR20, I have left the SL's set up for testing purposes, instead of doing the manual recording work around. Having done some SW testing in my previous life, I know the importance of details, and I know that more data is better than less data.

I also know that there are many out there without the luxury of multiple DVR's, or even multiple TV's. If I can help them out in some small way, well, it just makes me feel good. Besides, it's not just Blue, it has happened during the summer re-runs of CSI for me, and others have had issues with ST: Enterprise, and there are certainly other shows as well.

I just want to help those programmers that I hope are trying to fix it get their heads around what's going on. If someone wants to tell me that they have enough info, and know what the problem is, I would be happy to stop posting my errors.

So far, no one has said jack to me.



Jim B said:


> So, for testing purposes, would it help if I added the SLs to both my HR20 and R15 to post results? If so, tell me exactly what the SLs are that you use and I'll do my part....


Any testing that you would care to do would be greatly appreciated, Jim.

The SL that I seem to have the most trouble with is set up on 299 - NIK1 - 8am MDT. I also have one set up on Noggin for 12 noon (I think), but that one doesn't seem to have any issues. I think that Ken S did have trouble with his Blues Clues set up on Noggin, however.

Thanks for chiming in, Jim.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Once again....
> *
> Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Thursday 8/2 5:30am MDT - Partial *
> It recorded the last 10 minutes of a 30 minute program. There were no other recordings scheduled during this time. This is a new twist, at least for me. * EDIT: *After a little digging around, I think I can chalk this one up to a small power glitch. Only enough to reset a couple of clocks in the house, but enough to reboot the HR20. Guess it's time to get a UPS.
> ...


Same results here.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Well, the avatar is the child, but I guess it's clear who is running things in this house!:lol:
> 
> For the most part, he watches his Blues Clues, Elmo, etc... on my (I mean his) SD-DVR40 DTiVo in the family room (a two year old with his own TiVo, talk about spoiled! :nono2. But, it is really nice to sit with him on my lap in front of the big TV from time to time an bliss out on some Blue.
> 
> ...


The sad part is all the effort that you, and I to a lesser extent, have put into this could be easily and quickly replicated at their offices. Why they choose not to acknowledge problems in any way is a mystery. Would it be that hard to have an anonymous account here...or on their own forums to do that?

By the way...our setup is exactly the same. We have the 70 inch set in the family room with the great sound system (THX and all) and 95% of the time it's playing Wiggles, Blue's Clues, etc. It's worth it!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Well, we have a returning member to the "not recording" list. My SL is set to record The Wiggles (BOTH 5, KUF,-1,+5) on 290 at 7AM ET) and for some reason the HR20 is only choosing to record about 1 show per week. 

Nothing is showing in the history file, but the Upcoming episodes list shows plenty of different shows with only a few being selected. Some don't have the full description, but others do and that doesn't seem to make any difference in whether it is selected to record or not.


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## Chuck584 (Apr 17, 2007)

Star Trek: Enterprise yesterday 79 HDN Canceled - "This showing is over."

Why this didn't record is beyond me as the SL is for "both".

Overnight it was scheduled to record for
The 4400 at 2AM on 242
Heart: Alive in Seattle at 2:28AM on 79
The Dead Zone at 3 AM on 242

I don't know what it did or did not do as somewhere between 1 and 5 it lost all the content. Sigh...

This may be an undocumented feature. I have a new terabyte drive I was going to install today. It may have anticipated the event to comply with the MPAA ten league boots.


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## ecdc (Dec 14, 2006)

> However, I am successfully getting Dan on a consistent basis. So I imagine I should be getting a (10) for those non-records as well.


I haven't gotten a Dan Rather Reports to record properly for the last two or three weeks. I've always had a few show up as "canceled" in the history, but until it started getting really inconsistent with the recordings, I assumed these were duplicate showings that the HR20 recognized as such and didn't record. But now I haven't had a single one show up. I've tried deleting the series link and re-adding it, with no luck.

I think we need to start checking these after each CE release and then post the problem in those threads - perhaps that will make it a bit more official.

I did notice right off that it may have been the lack of info in the guide, but had no idea others were experiencing the same thing. I guess I'm lucky my kids don't watch Wiggles or Blues Clues anymore - thank you Disney for having guide data for House of Mouse and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

ecdc said:


> I haven't gotten a Dan Rather Reports to record properly for the last two or three weeks. I've always had a few show up as "canceled" in the history, but until it started getting really inconsistent with the recordings, I assumed these were duplicate showings that the HR20 recognized as such and didn't record. But now I haven't had a single one show up. I've tried deleting the series link and re-adding it, with no luck.
> 
> I think we need to start checking these after each CE release and then post the problem in those threads - perhaps that will make it a bit more official.
> 
> I did notice right off that it may have been the lack of info in the guide, but had no idea others were experiencing the same thing. I guess I'm lucky my kids don't watch Wiggles or Blues Clues anymore - thank you Disney for having guide data for House of Mouse and Mickey Mouse Clubhouse


It has been posted in the issues thread in the CE forum over multiple releases. As it is affecting those on the NR as well as those on the CE, we have kept it here. I have been, and will continue to d/l the CE releases, and continue to hope for improvement.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Sigh....

*CSI: Crime Scene Investigation - 4 KCNC - Wednesday 8/2 8pm MDT - Partial*

*Blues Clues - NIK1 299 - Thursday 8/3 8am MDT - Canceled - Error 13*

'nuff said, I guess.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Sigh....
> 
> *CSI: Crime Scene Investigation - 4 KCNC - Wednesday 8/2 8pm MDT - Partial*
> 
> ...


I decided to set up a Blue's Clues SL to see if I could duplicate your results. I did get the same end result, but a bit different explanation.

Blue's Clues for today:
NICK1 299 - 6am CDT - Recorded - (desc) Blue's 100th Anniversary Celebration
NICK2 300 - 9am CDT - Cancelled - (desc) Blue's 100th Anniversary Celebration - Cancelled by user (1)
Noggin 298 - Recorded - (desc) Blue wants to Play a Song

Now I didn't cancel the episode on 300, but it was one that had just recorded, so no need to duplicate. Looks like the DVR's SL logic took over and did not duplicate. Not sure if the 28 day rule would apply to prevent that repeat from recording the next 28 days, but we'll see b/c I think it's listed a few more times.

Not sure how you have a 8am MDT listing on 299 when it probably aired at 5 on 299 and 8 on 300.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

say-what said:


> I decided to set up a Blue's Clues SL to see if I could duplicate your results. I did get the same end result, but a bit different explanation.
> 
> Blue's Clues for today:
> NICK1 299 - 6am CDT - Recorded - (desc) Blue's 100th Anniversary Celebration
> ...


It does appear something has recently changed in the schedule. Starting next week, it looks like Blue is scheduled at 5:30am/8:30am MDT. My to do list is now scheduling episodes for 5:30am MDT on 299 (starting this coming Monday).

I promise, the regular schedule on 299 has had a 8am MDT Blues for some time (I actually still have some in my playlist). I will remove and recreate my SL's just to rule out some weirdness with the change. See post #115 for a pic of a 8am showing in the history list.

I don't believe that the HR20 has a 28 day rule like the TiVo does. It only cares if the program is in the playlist. Or at least that has been my experience, and is what I have read here on this forum.

Thanks for jumping in and trying to help figure out what's happening here. Maybe you are on to something with the schedule change. If you look close at the thread there is a pretty big gap where things were working fine for a while, and then this week it started having problems again. Maybe it has something to do with Nick jacking around with the schedule. I will try to look at it through those eyes.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

OK, now I am finding some more weirdness...

On my TiVo, there is an episode of Blue scheduled for 8am MDT Monday 8/6 on 299. On the HR20, in the same time slot same channel, SpongeBob Squarepants is scheduled. I wonder who is right.

Will continue to investigate.....

*EDIT:* Upon further investigation, the TiVo now shows the same SpongeBob in the guide, but it's to do list hasn't caught up yet. I appears the HR20 was ahead of the curve on this one.

Clearly there is some schedule changing going on here, and as I said before, I will blow out and reset my SL's and I guess we will see what happens.

Once again, thanks to everyone trying to help out!


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> OK, now I am finding some more weirdness...
> 
> On my TiVo, there is an episode of Blue scheduled for 8am MDT Monday 8/6 on 299. On the HR20, in the same time slot same channel, SpongeBob Squarepants is scheduled. I wonder who is right.
> 
> ...


What I think is happening is that the SL will create an entry in the "To Do List" and that entry will stay there until it's time comes up and if the schedule has changed, it updates with the new listings, but when it gets to the old listing it just says "oh well, there's nothing there" and it cancels the recording.

I've seen something similar when cancelling SL's with shows remaining - they don't hit the History until they were supposed to air and then they show as cancelled by user. So even redoing your SL may not eliminate the weird cancellations showing in your History list until you've reached the end of the cached recording requests for the old listing.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

say-what said:


> What I think is happening is that the SL will create an entry in the "To Do List" and that entry will stay there until it's time comes up and if the schedule has changed, it updates with the new listings, but when it gets to the old listing it just says "oh well, there's nothing there" and it cancels the recording.
> 
> I've seen something similar when cancelling SL's with shows remaining - they don't hit the History until they were supposed to air and then they show as cancelled by user. So even redoing your SL may not eliminate the weird cancellations showing in your History list until you've reached the end of the cached recording requests for the old listing.


You may be on to something, at least for what has been happening this week. There have been cases where I have, essentially, "seen it happen". As in, the show was actually airing at the time, but with the HR20 just refusing to record.

I have sort of committed next weeks schedule to memory, so we sill see what happens. I would like nothing more than for this thread to fade and die a nice quiet death.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Cyg,

Do you record The Wiggles? I'm just getting weird stuff on this one. I set a SL

Both, 5, UF, -1,+5
and it seems to pick and choose which ones it will record...but for the life of me I can't figure out why it is choosing to record some and not others. There seems to be some missing guide data, but that doesn't seem to the determinative factor.
No error in the history and if you look at the To Do list some are scheduled to record...others are not.
I have a feeling this has something to do with the "The" in Wiggles and in some way that's getting borked up and while they list properly the SL doesn't see some Wiggles as being "The Wiggles".


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Cyg,
> 
> Do you record The Wiggles? I'm just getting weird stuff on this one. I set a SL


I'd be happy to try it. What channel/time?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The Wiggles 7AM (ET) on Disney 1 (290)

My settings once again..

Both, 5, KUF, -1, +5
(There is a short show after it we want to catch called the Adventures of Emily Yeung and the HR20 just can't seem to do 5 minutes shows without missing 2 minutes of them.)

Thanks much!


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## Jim B (Feb 4, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Any testing that you would care to do would be greatly appreciated, Jim.
> 
> The SL that I seem to have the most trouble with is set up on 299 - NIK1 - 8am MDT. I also have one set up on Noggin for 12 noon (I think), but that one doesn't seem to have any issues. I think that Ken S did have trouble with his Blues Clues set up on Noggin, however.


OK, I feel I need to do my part for the cause :grin: as a long time lurker in the forum, but not one to post much or be actively helpful, so I set up test SLs on my two DVRs. Here's what I did, and the DVR details:

*R15-500, 0x10FA*
Wiggles, 290, 7AM, Both, KUF, -1, +5
Blue, 299, 7:30AM, Both, KUF, S&S on time
Wonder Pets, 299, 8:30AM, Both KUF, S&S on time
Maggie/Ferocious Beast, 298, 2PM, Both, KAE, S&S on time

Notes - Times are EST; Second SL for Blue on Noggin will not take on the R15; On Saturday morning, the R15's guide has program descriptions for Blue & Wonder Pets that are both "generic" ("a puppy leave clues...." and "three classroom pets...."); however, the guide has episode titles and/or descriptions for Wiggles and Maggie.

*HR20-100, 0x17e*
Wiggles, 290, 7AM, Both, KUF, -1, +5
Blue, 299, 7:30AM, Both, KUF, S&S on time
Blue, 298, 2PM, Both, KUF, S&S on time
Wonder Pets, 299, 8:30AM, Both KUF, S&S on time
Maggie/Ferocious Beast, 298, 2PM, Both, KAE, S&S on time

Notes - Second SL for Blue on Noggin _did_ take on the HR20; On Saturday morning, the HR20's guide has the same program descriptions as the R15 above: Blue on 299 & Wonder Pets that are both "generic" ("a puppy leave clues...." and "three classroom pets...."); however, the guide has episode titles and/or descriptions for Wiggles, Maggie and Blue on Noggin.

On the R15, the four SLs are the only SLs; on the HR20, these five SLs are prioritized as items 9-13, but the first eight SLs are all nighttime shows except the wife Gen Hospital, so no schedule conflicts should occur. Everything should start up Monday morning, so I'll post next week what happens on each....

Jim


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Jim B said:


> OK, I feel I need to do my part for the cause :grin: as a long time lurker in the forum, but not one to post much or be actively helpful, so I set up test SLs on my two DVRs. Here's what I did, and the DVR details:
> 
> *R15-500, 0x10FA*
> Wiggles, 290, 7AM, Both, KUF, -1, +5
> ...


Jim,

Thank you...it'll be interesting to see what your results are.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Ken S said:


> The Wiggles 7AM (ET) on Disney 1 (290)


Done! We'll see how it goes.

BTW, Jim B, thanks for the help!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Wiggles Update:

Downstairs TV (This is the main Wiggles set): Recorded all shows for the week of July 22, None for the week of July 29 nd then it's only set to record shows on August 6 & August 10. The episodes it is ignoring do not match any of the five in our recorded list.

I set The Wiggles to record on my office HR20 and the episode list indicates that it will be recording all of the shows next week.

In looking at the guide data for the upcoming shows there's a variety of differences. Some have episode titles, some don't. It also appears that if an episode title matches another episode title "Lights, Camera, Action" that doesn't disqualify it from recording (there are other differences in the title line like year.

So, I'll have to let it go on a while longer and see what happens after/if my office machine gets populated with shows.

I keep thinking this relates back to when they changed the way search works two patches ago. It also may relate to the last patch resetting the machine and the problem reoccurring after it has been running for a bit.

Sooner or later I'll just format the HD on the downstairs TV (erasing all of my wife's programs and my chance of any loving for quite some time) to see if that makes any difference.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Well this is very strange. The show in question that failed to record:

*299 NIK1 - 8/7 5:30am- Blue's Clues - Cancelled - The showing is over*

The strange thing is that for the one missed episode, there are four cancellations listed in history. (See attachment) Three are identical, in that they have the correct episode description, but are missing the episode title. The fourth has a generic program description. To me this seem indicative of NICK jacking around with the schedule, but who knows.

These don't say error 13 (for a change), yet, the episode didn't record. It is not already in my playlist, and the episode successfully recorded on my DVR40 in the other room.

BTW, Ken, so far so good with the Wiggles.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Well this is very strange. The show in question that failed to record:
> 
> *299 NIK1 - 8/7 5:30am- Blue's Clues - Cancelled - The showing is over*
> 
> ...


I'm convinced that the way they changed the searched corrupted something on the one machine that has trouble recording all the Wiggles episodes. I guess I"m going to reset everything on that box and see what happens.
This box needs a "re-index" function of some sort. Having to delete all the recorded shows and re-do all the SLs, etc. is painful.

BTW, as I type this Barry Bonds hits #756


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Ken S said:


> I'm convinced that the way they changed the searched corrupted something on the one machine that has trouble recording all the Wiggles episodes. I guess I"m going to reset everything on that box and see what happens.
> This box needs a "re-index" function of some sort. Having to delete all the recorded shows and re-do all the SLs, etc. is painful.
> 
> BTW, as I type this Barry Bonds hits #756


Something like the Tivo "Clear Program Info & Todo List" might be helpful. Not a C&DE but more than a reset.

Keep in mind the caching of the guide data was added after development of the unit. There's not a reset selection to clear the guide cache. Maybe if the cache is corrupted in some way it effects the scheduling.

New reset option: Clear SLs, TODO list and guide data without wiping recorded programs.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bto4wd said:


> Something like the Tivo "Clear Program Info & Todo List" might be helpful. Not a C&DE but more than a reset.
> 
> Keep in mind the caching of the guide data was added after development of the unit. There's not a reset selection to clear the guide cache. Maybe if the cache is corrupted in some way it effects the scheduling.
> 
> New reset option: Clear SLs, TODO list and guide data without wiping recorded programs.


Actually, I take that request back...they should just make a DVR that doesn't require complete formats nearly as much as the HR20 does.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

For the first time in more than a week, Blue's Clues recorded properly for me. The 5:30am MDT showing appeared to have complete guide data, and this apparently led to a successful recording. 

Interestingly, there was still an error for the same episode in the history list. I suspect it is a "leftover" pseudo-entry that was hidden in the to do list from all the schedule changes that have been happening lately. Hopefully in another week or so, those will all be gone. We will see.


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## Jim B (Feb 4, 2006)

Jim B said:


> .
> 
> *HR20-100, 0x17e*
> Wiggles, 290, 7AM, Both, KUF, -1, +5
> ...


So, I have been swamped at worked and am just now reviewing the info to post results.....

Wow, for the HR20 - 
- All the Blues episodes on 290 and 298 worked....
- All the Wiggles recorded correctly as well....
- The Wonder Pets recorded on T,W & F. On M & Th, I had an error 13 recording with the generic program description in the History
- All the Maggie/Beast episodes recorded correctly

Cyg, do you think the guide data is still the issue? After reading all through the posts, I was convinced it was the generic versus the specific program descriptions, and the week started out with some generic data..... Did the data update and we (or just me) not notice it, and the HR20 did what it should have, with just the two exceptions on the Wonder Pets?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The Wiggles have recorded properly on all machines here after I formatted the one. I think that error was caused by the patch changing search functionality.

We got all the Blues Clues this week.

Had one error 13 on Jack's Big Music Show.

Once again, I'd like to thank DirecTV for not fixing the parental controls so that when I did my search for Jack's Big Music Show...I also got Jack's Big Boobs Show 3 on the screen. Although, I'm not sure if that's adult programming or a videotape of a development meeting at DirecTV.


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## bto4wd (Apr 17, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Once again, I'd like to thank DirecTV for not fixing the parental controls so that when I did my search for Jack's Big Music Show...I also got Jack's Big Boobs Show 3 on the screen. Although, I'm not sure if that's adult programming or a videotape of a development meeting at DirecTV.


Gonna have to set that to autorecord. Thanks Ken! :lol:


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bto4wd said:


> Gonna have to set that to autorecord. Thanks Ken! :lol:


Don't tell us how it ends.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

Does anyone have problems with SL on USA network? I have Psych, The 4400 and The Dead Zone set to record and it keeps recording every single showing. The guide data for these shows is non-existant...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Blues Clues Problems are returning. Had several shows error 13, but the box picked up later showings.

The timing on Thomas & Friends is just horrid. I don't know if this is Sprout and/or DirecTV...but unless you pad the five minute show with at least five minutes before and five after there's a good chance you're going to miss two minutes.


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## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi guys. Just wanted to check in on this thing. I had deleted my Wonder Pet SL and recreated it. It seemed to work for a while, but is having issues again. The show is usually on 2x daily. Yesterday it picked up both. Last week Friday had an error 13 on the morning episdoe, but there is nothing for the afternoon (like it never existed). Same for Thursday.

So right now I went into the guide and tried to select the 4 pm episode (ch 298) I hit record once and the "R" shows up. Hit record again to create a series link and it removes the "R" completely. It refuses to do anything other than record the single episode.

Do you guys see any connection to this? http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94751


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

UPDATE: As of 8/14, I've now recorded and am seeing proper data for both Blue's Clues and Dan Rather Reports.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The problems remain and now I'm seeing it on different machines.

Man vs. Wild on Sun 8/12 canceled at 3P, 4P & 5P error (13).

on downstairs machine...

Blue's Clues recorded 5 of 7 shows at the proper time the other two later.
Thomas & Friends records but always misses part of the show. They're only five minutes long so it doesn't take much of an error to miss 1/2 the show.
Pimp My Ride on MTV2. Timing is way off. The HR20 seems to get the last part of one show on the new show and cut off the last 2 mins or so of the show it should be recording. I also noticed that it failed to record three episodes with error 13 being the culprit.

I have all but given up on any of the HR20s reliably recording any series. I bought Blue's Clues, Wiggles and Thomas & Friends DVDs as for Man vs. Wild I went over to my friend's house with a Series 2 DirecTivo and saw them there.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

A brief review of another machine in the house shows that this past week the HR20 failed to record.

Two shows on MTV.

Newport Harbor: The Real Orange County on Sunday
Newport Harbor: The Real Orange County on Tuesday
Pimp My Ride on Tuesday.

Usual nodescriptive "Unavailable Error 13"


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Been a bit since I've updated this thread.

The HR20 is still doing a pretty poor job of recording:

The Wiggles on Disney Channel - The last NR actually deleted the SL for the show. We re-entered it and it missed an entire week of shows anyway.

Blue's Clues - Slightly better than normal, but still misses some shows with the mysterious error (13)

Jack's Big Music Show - Won't put them in the To Do list at all for the coming 2 weeks.

Thomas & Friends - Times are always way, way off..sometimes missing more than 1/2 of the show.

Pimping My Ride - This error may be MTV but it catches about 5 minutes from the previous show and cuts off about 5 early (no padding set).

How it's Made - New error on these..."This showing is over" in the history log. 

Dirty Jobs - "This showing is over" error

The box itself is far more stable then when I got it in March. It does pretty well especially if you make sure and give it a restart about every three to four weeks. But the recording reliability still is lacking. It may be guide data, it may be the machine screwing up the guide data...I don't know. I suspect someone at DirecTV does.

Also, isn't it about time they fixed the issue of a show being played not starting at the beginning?


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## nhlfan79 (Aug 31, 2006)

My HR20-100 is still hit and miss on recording the following SL shows on Noggin: Wonder Pets, Dora, Diego, Jack's, Backyardigans, and (ugh) Yo Gabba Gabba. There seems to be no pattern to which episodes it will record and which it will not. It hasn't recorded any new Noggin show since last Thursday, five days ago.

I haven't tried recording those shows on my other HR20-700, though. I know my HR10-250 recorded every episode flawlessly.


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## AlexCF (Oct 14, 2006)

I finally deleted all the shows from the prioritizer for the CourtTV channel. Nearly every program I had recorded ends up being cut off with the "became unavailable" error. The HR20 is thoroughly useless for recording shows on that network.

Curiously enough, my old SD RCA receiver has trouble showing guide data for CourtTV. It only shows the program that is currently playing and won't show anything else in that row of the grid. That used to happen on the Fox Reality channel before CourTV got moved off of channel 203 to 246. Related perhaps?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

AlexCF said:


> I finally deleted all the shows from the prioritizer for the CourtTV channel. Nearly every program I had recorded ends up being cut off with the "became unavailable" error. The HR20 is thoroughly useless for recording shows on that network.


Really? I have several series links on CourtTV (Cops, Beach Patrol, some new thing that just started...Ocean Force or something, etc) and they all record just fine. Strange.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bon,

There are certain shows that can consistently error 13s. There's a new one Newport something or other on MTV that my wife is trying to get that is canceled with that error several times a week.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken S said:


> bon,
> 
> There are certain shows that can consistently error 13s. There's a new one Newport something or other on MTV that my wife is trying to get that is canceled with that error several times a week.


Oh I understand that. In posting what my shows are on CourtTV I was hoping that the poster could list what shows he's having issues on to see if they are the same ones.

The only time I've seen the error 13 thing is on a couple shows on HDNet but later shows are always picked up so I haven't actually missed any shows due to it. I guess those of you recording children shows notice it more because a later showing just doesn't matter, you want the 2 that were aired *that day* whereas with regular series so long as it gets recorded the user will never know about the error. This is probably why it's not widely reported. I'm sure we all have the problem, but most of us just don't see it with everyday use.


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## AlexCF (Oct 14, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Really? I have several series links on CourtTV (Cops, Beach Patrol, some new thing that just started...Ocean Force or something, etc) and they all record just fine. Strange.


That's very odd then. New episodes of Beach Patrol do it every single time. I get maybe 12 to 15 minutes of each episode. The other was the "Most Amazing" series they're doing, I get anywhere from twenty to forty minutes of it. Never get a full show. I can get a full show by marking the next showing to record in the program guide, it seems to be only the first showings of new episodes that do this.

I don't know why you'd be able to record and I'm not. My signal strength is dead on and other than the super crop bug, there's nothing funky about my HR20. It's only ever the CourtTV network that I see this issue on, and I record stuff from a variety of networks.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Well, hi again, folks...

After having lived in this thread for for what seemed like a really long time, I haven't posted lately as I haven't had an error 13 in about a month. My current SL's include Blues Clues, Thomas and Friends, Jay Jay the Jet Plane, and Bob the Builder. No error 13's, not a one.

I don't know what happened, but I suspect some specific problems with the guide data for specific programs were addressed. It may very well be that all these posts got someone to light a fire under someone else that got the guide data corrected, for some specific programs.

*Ken:*

I can't imagine why you are still seeing the error 13's for Blue, and I am not, of course unless we are no longer trying to record the same timeslots. As for the Thomas & Friends issue, that one is totally Sprout-caused. They don't air it when they say they will. I pad the start by 5 minutes, and that seems to catch it pretty much every time. I have to do the same thing with my TiVo.

As for the "showing is over" errors:

My theory on those is that it was a program that was in the guide at some point, and therefore scheduled to record in the to do list. At some point, the guide is updated, and the program is no longer scheduled to air. You would think that it would then be removed from the to do list, but I don't think it is. When the the scheduled time rolls around, the program doesn't match what is in the guide (as it is not actually airing) and you get the "showing is over" thing.

I have been seeing this on occasion during the summer rerun season. The guide data has the rerun scheduled at its regular time, and it gets added to the to do list, perhaps nearly two weeks out. The networks substitute something else for the rerun at some point, the guide gets updated, but the to do list doesn't. Just a theory, and I could be wrong. The point is, I don't think we are necessarily missing a recording, we just have entries in our to do list that never actually happen.

As for what is happening with Jack's Big Music Show, I can't imagine. If you are still having this problem, let me know, and I'll try to set up a SL and see how it goes.

*To all those who are seeing error 13's:*

Please post specific time/network/show info, as this is something that may have to be addressed on a case by case basis, until getting it right becomes habit for the folks doing the data entry at TMS. Maybe.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Cyg,

I went back through the history and I was wrong on Blue's Clues...that has been recording properly. The show Newport Beach: The Real Orange County (my brother-in-law has been in it) is getting so many error 13s I misread. Sometimes that show gets 4 or 5 errors a day (mostly "is over" errors but an occasional 13 as well.)

Jack's Music is just not picking up shows for some reason. We have a SL for both, but it, like Wiggles is ignoring episodes. I have a feeling that the HR20 chokes on the "'" in the name sometimes...as it did/does with the "The" in The Wiggles. That's just a guess. The biggest problem with this is when it goes to "None Scheduled" it's hard to get back to look at your SL command unless you have one that was previously recorded in the List.

As for Thomas, I agree that may be Noggin...I gave up on this and bought DVDs


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

searching for wiggles today returns a bunch of episodes on 290 and 291 but some are marked with the name of the episode and some say "the wiggles". I assume that this generic version gets replaced at some point with a specific episode and possibly then the HR20 is cancelling that recording. This is true for the episode next wednesday. I will set a recording (series and single episode) and see what happens.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

dvrblogger said:


> searching for wiggles today returns a bunch of episodes on 290 and 291 but some are marked with the name of the episode and some say "the wiggles". *I assume that this generic version gets replaced at some point with a specific episode and possibly then the HR20 is cancelling that recording.* This is true for the episode next wednesday. I will set a recording (series and single episode) and see what happens.


That's a pretty good theory. If the data is generic, and then gets replaced by specific show data, the HR20 may consider them to be two separate programs. If the "phantom" generic program stays in the to do list, at some level, then *I think* it would return the "showing is over" error. The question is, does the actual program get recorded....


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

armophob said:


> I am not a father, but I am an uncle. And if I remember right, doesn't that show Blues Clues repeat itself all week? Even if it is set to both, it won't record the exact same episode more than once until it is deleted or forced to do so.


It has no problem recording the exact same episodes of the 1/2 Hour News Hour, the 4400, Kim Possible, and Psych. Kind of a nuisance, since I have to manually delete the second of each episode each week (although it is better than it not recording either showing!)


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable

What? We still have this problem with this DVR?

Here are the particulars:

Jack's Big Music Show Channel 298 Noggin
All Episodes are set to record
It is on every day @ 9:30 AM CST
Keep both first run and repeats 
Keep until Disk Full (71% remaining)

Why is this still an issue?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

luckydob said:


> This episode was partially recorded because it became unavailable
> 
> What? We still have this problem with this DVR?
> 
> ...


Lucky,
Depressing isn't it? This thing still can't complete it's basic function dependably. There are worse examples the show "Orange County..." on MTV errors almost every showing lately. It looks even worse when other DVRs don't seem to suffer the same issues.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Well, we're 0 for 3 this week in recording Blue's Clues. All have been canceled with an error (13).

This has occurred on three different HR20s here. 

For whatever reason my friend's DirecTivo has been able to record them without any problems.

This problem has now been going on for over three months.


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## Supramom2000 (Jun 21, 2007)

I gave up on Wonder Pets. It is not scheduled to record all the rest of this week, yet it is on 2 times per day, sometimes 3.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Well, we're 0 for 3 this week in recording Blue's Clues. All have been canceled with an error (13).
> 
> This has occurred on three different HR20s here.
> 
> ...


Ken, 
Mine recorded mondays and tuesdays episodes of Blues Clues, it did not record today's episode due to "unexpected error 3"

Today, I had one Wonder Pets record and one not record due to program becoming unavailable 13.

I had today's episode of Dora not record because program became unavailable.

Be nice if the 90% who said they would recommend the HR20 to their friends would jump in and try SL's on some of these shows. I wonder if they would continue to recommend after seeing the results.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

raott,

Which Blue's Clues showing (time/channel) are you trying to record?


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Ken S said:


> raott,
> 
> Which Blue's Clues showing (time/channel) are you trying to record?


The SL is on Nick1 (299), show comes on at 11am.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Ahh...that's a different we go with the one on Noggin (298) at Noon ET. I can't recommend switching though. I just checked another machine...we also record the two showings on Nick 10AM and 11AM if I recall. Our success matches your's on the 11AM recording and the 10AM has also been a total washout this week.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

3 Months of this. No solutions. No answers. This is "actively working on the issue"?

And people wonder why we don't like the HR20. IT CAN'T DO IT'S PRIMARY FUNCTION. At this point a VCR seems like it might be the best way to go to get my programs to record.


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## xerxes (Jan 21, 2007)

Ok, what is the deal. More shows not recorded tonight:

The Office, 9PM - Reason: Canceled because of unexpected error (3).
Big Shots - 10PM - same as above. 

And a bunch of things with "This showing is over" - What the heck is that?


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## xerxes (Jan 21, 2007)

luckydob said:


> 3 Months of this. No solutions. No answers. This is "actively working on the issue"?
> 
> And people wonder why we don't like the HR20. IT CAN'T DO IT'S PRIMARY FUNCTION. At this point a VCR seems like it might be the best way to go to get my programs to record.


I agree with you completely, isn't there a new Tivo box out now?


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

yesterday's results:
Blues Clues was OK
Wonderpets was OK
Dora- 9am - on Nick1- showing cancelled because the program became unavailable (it ended up recording what appears to be the same episode later in the day)


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

Does anyone know what the (13) or (3) errors are? Not just guide data guesses?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

luckydob said:


> Does anyone know what the (13) or (3) errors are? Not just guide data guesses?


Lucky,

I've been unable to find any definition for them over the past few months and requests to DirecTV technical support haven't been answered. Although it may not matter as many error codes don't directly tell you what the problem is and are only useful if you know the entire system.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Now it's time for so long,
But we'll sing just one more song,
Thanks for doin' your part, you sure are smart,
You know with me and you
and our friend Blue
We can do anything that we wanna do!

In hopes that the message finally got through to DirecTV and that they are now actively working on the shows not recording issue(s). I'm going to be moving my reports to the CE thread on the topic.

Hopefully, they'll find the three clues. Write them in their notebook and then...sit down in their thinking chair and

Think
Think
Think

If not I guess we'll have to put them in a room with...







and









Thank you to the people that helped by posting your reports in this thread and others.

(all images and lyrics are the property of their respective owners and for more information on Blue's Clues make sure and tune to Noggin or Nik 2 every day!)


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Ken, I've begun to feel your pain. Or, rather my 2.5 year old has...

She's into Diego right now and unfortunately our HR20 doesn't seem interested in recording Diego. However our HR21 has no problems with it...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1485059&postcount=68

I'm curious, have you tried comparing any of your missed recordings between your HR20s and the HR21 that I see you now have?

I suspect that my reboot over the weekend might have had something to do with temporarily "fixing" the problem on the HR20. Guess it's time to start keeping a log...

PS - I don't normally spend a lot of time reviewing history, however I noticed that Dora recordings on a regular basis are cancelled with an error (13), but then magically still record the same episode. The same channel and time are listed twice in the history, one cancelled, one recorded... /boggle


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Thaedron,

I think we have Diego on one of our machines...I'll have to check for missing episodes. I have been noticing a few of the shows haven't been getting new episodes lately...but haven't really started looking in the history file again.

I don't look that closely anymore it just ticks me off to see the missed shows and why get ticked when a $10 DVD makes my son happy and me less reliant on DirecTV.

I still hope one day someone at DirecTV will take this problem seriously enough to throw the resources at it that are necessary to fix the issue. Our best shot is some senior executive there starts getting crap from his wife/kids about missed shows. 



Thaedron said:


> Ken, I've begun to feel your pain. Or, rather my 2.5 year old has...
> 
> She's into Diego right now and unfortunately our HR20 doesn't seem interested in recording Diego. However our HR21 has no problems with it...
> 
> ...


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I just have to ask..What on earth is a Blues Clue?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

You've never heard of Blues Clues?

It's a childrens television show.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

On a side note, I haven't read this whole thread, but I have the following shows set up on my kids HR21 (all set for Both, All Episodes):

Little Einsteins
Handy Manny
Go, Diego, Go
Dora
Franklin
Wonder Pets
Wow!Wow!Wubbzy
Super Why
Pinky Dinky Doo
Backyardigans


They don't watch Blues Clues anymore, so we don't have that Series set up, but we haven't had any problems with any of the above shows since we started recording them on they HR21 about 2 months ago.


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## SAlBO (Jan 6, 2007)

sadly, I need to add my problems to this discussion now seeing that my two HR20-700's are having problems recording shows on NOG and NIK. It is mainly Wiggles and Backyardagins as well. I set my HR21-100 to record these two series this morning so I will know in a few days if it is recording correctly or not on it...

KenS, I feel your pain. My 2 year old Grand daughter is hooked on these shows and will rarely watch a rerun....I guess she got that from me....hehe


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Oddly enough, my HR21-100 that is recording Diego where the HR20-100 is not, is occasionally not recording Dan Rather Reports off of HD Net...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Well, here we go again. Checked on a couple of the shows my son likes to watch and mysteriously the HR20 has stopped recording them reliably. This is also happening with a show I watch.

Bigfoot Presents: Meteor and the Mighty Monster Trucks has episodes listed but none with a record symbol. The show is on daily on TLCHD...but apparently not worthy of the HR20's recording efforts. There is no entry whatsoever in the history file, but the Series Link is active and in the Prioritizer. There is no conflict.

Star Trek: Enterprise: 1PM on HDNet - Recording of this series which also is broadcast everyday has become sporadic at best. It shows as canceled in history.


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## ghindman (Apr 10, 2008)

So, I'm suddenly seeing this issue with Sesame Street. I have an HR21-700 that I've had for a couple of months.

It was recording every episode without fail - set to record Both/Keep All till full. A few weeks ago we had too many, so I deleted a bunch, and set it to keep just the last 10. Since then, it rarely records a show - maybe one every couple of days. Tonight I deleted all scheduled programs and got the same result - just the first one is set to record, even though all episodes have unique titles in the episode list.

What gives?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

ghindman said:


> So, I'm suddenly seeing this issue with Sesame Street. I have an HR21-700 that I've had for a couple of months.
> 
> It was recording every episode without fail - set to record Both/Keep All till full. A few weeks ago we had too many, so I deleted a bunch, and set it to keep just the last 10. Since then, it rarely records a show - maybe one every couple of days. Tonight I deleted all scheduled programs and got the same result - just the first one is set to record, even though all episodes have unique titles in the episode list.
> 
> What gives?


ghindman - You probably need to wait 24 hours and then post back. When you set up a new series link, only the first episode will appear in the to-do list; the to-do list populates over a period of time.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

One thing you need to check when you see this problem. If an episode has the same program information as one you have already recorded, it is considered a duplicate and won't record. It seems to me that if there are two episodes where the guide data is completely lacking - generic title etc - only the first one will record because the DVR thinks they are the same episode. And so long as the first "generic" recording is on the disk, no other "generic" titles will record (at least during whatever window the DVR uses for its "duplicate test", some people have suggested this is 30 days.)
The only way to solve this is for the DVR to have a third option - as well as "first run" and "first run and repeats", it needs a true "record all" option where apparent duplicates get recorded as well. This would be the only way to protect against "generic" guide data.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> One thing you need to check when you see this problem. If an episode has the same program information as one you have already recorded, it is considered a duplicate and won't record. It seems to me that if there are two episodes where the guide data is completely lacking - generic title etc - only the first one will record because the DVR thinks they are the same episode. And so long as the first "generic" recording is on the disk, no other "generic" titles will record (at least during whatever window the DVR uses for its "duplicate test", some people have suggested this is 30 days.)
> The only way to solve this is for the DVR to have a third option - as well as "first run" and "first run and repeats", it needs a true "record all" option where apparent duplicates get recorded as well. This would be the only way to protect against "generic" guide data.


Actually, shows that have no guide data other than title seem to record all the time for me...

I believe that all the shows have a serial number if you will. Most of the time those serial numbers also coincide with the shows specific title. If any given shows serial number or show title is in history, the unit will not record that show again until its no longer showing in history....

So before you note this as the same problem as Ken and others have had, since your unit is only a month or two old, check your history. After about 3 months things seem to disappear from history...

I agree, there needs to be a way to record shows regardless of episode title, etc...


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

7/9/07 the thread was opened.

5/26/08 the problem still exists.

Seriously...what is going on here? I just want this thing to record what I tell it to record. Latest casualty: My wife's soap opera which is on every day...missed the last 5 recordings because...the program was unavailable.

It's getting old, very, very, very old D*. I'm out of patience. Just fix it.


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## DrummerBoy523 (Jan 9, 2007)

Backyardigans not recording and getting the stupid "program not recorded because it was no longer available" message! WTF??


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

I get "no longer available" all the time an "this showing is over" along with "canceled because another showing is scheduled to record".

I think the problem is simply a bad description or action. A show that is in the guide data twice shouldnt produce a "cancel" or any report at all, just that its been properly recorded once.

I've seen on some instances of "no longer available" that its an episode or show that has been previously recorded and watched, usually deleted from the now showing list. So I think thats also a bad message and also shouldnt bother being reported in the history.

In some instances when I check into the details around "this showing is over" the box had two active tuners recording at that time, so I think the correct message is "I didnt have a tuner".

Its also possible based on my recent experiences for the HR box to show insufficient signal on one or both tuners. In that case it may be that the box doesnt record the show because it doesnt have an active tuner that can receive a signal, so it keeps trying and if it gets to the end of the show and hasnt been able to record it says "well, I tried but this showing is over now, so..."

In several instances I found the culprit to be an autorecord keyword wishlist. I scheduled many recordings that didnt show a conflict, but didnt record because "the showing is over". When I looked, there were two shows being recorded at the time of the show I scheduled and at least one was an autorecord keyword wishlist.

That makes some sense, because the directv boxes dont enumerate all wishlist showings like the tivo does. It seems to do a 24 hour in advance scheduling. Thats how they get the speedy return from changing shows around in the prioritizer or adding stuff. The work is done in the background later on.

However in that instance when there is a guide data change or you make a scheduled recording a week out, the box may not have any idea what the future 'state' of its recordings will be, and wont until it tries to schedule the wishlist. One thing I dont know is if you say "record this show" and it says its been added, and then a keyword autorecord wants to put something on the schedule, which takes precedence? Seems to be the autorecord.

Last minute changes to the guide data can also produce a situation where you have three shows and only two tuners, and it seems if there is any ambiguity about the guide data on a show the box will choose the two less ambiguous recordings.

So in short, it seems to me that the real-time approach that the HR code takes to scheduling shows, using real-time data streams and guide data...simply cant ever produce a reliable recording system that performs in a method that can be anticipated.

What I think other systems do differently is if there is any ambiguity, record the thing anyhow and let the user delete it.

This is not limited to the directv box, I saw it on the directivo too. About two years ago directv changed "the data stream" to the tivo and how it handled the guide data and the directivo's I had started failing to record a number of shows, but primarily ones that changed their guide data. A key example was "survivor" who had "Contestants vie for a million dollars" or some such generic description and the day of the show would change it to "Bob tricks Jack and the BooHoo tribe makes a crucial mistake". That episode wouldnt record because the scheduler went "hey, this isnt what I had scheduled to record!".

Directv put the "old datastream" back in place and the recorder became ~100% reliable again. Then they issued a software change, put the "new datastream" back in service, and the problems were better but still there. Seems like if a show changed guide data stuff less than 4-6 hours before the show recorded, it would skip the recording. If it changed the guide data the day before, the scheduler would pick it up.

Whats different between the tivo and the directv unit is the advance prescheduling and conflict resolution along with the "please wait..." stuff on the tivo. The directv box seems to do a lot of things in real time or near real time. Thats great if everything is pristine and nothing unexpected happens. Which is pretty unrealistic to expect given the architecture of hundreds of channels forwarding iffy and incomplete guide data to aggregators, having it be collected by directv, massaged and then beamed off a hunk of metal in space to a trash can lid screwed to the side of your house...

So I think on one hand we have a problem where the basic architecture of the directv HR code can and does allow for some shows not being recorded that should be. The real time nature of the guide data/data stream aggravates the situation. And some of the resulting error codes either didnt need to be reported because they cause the customer to think something bad happened when nothing bad happened, or the message doesnt actually state what actually happened and why.

Ummm...any questions?


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

Ah, I just saw an interesting one. My to-do list showed an upcoming recording for this morning for "nfl preseason football" on 212 NFLHD. When I looked at the playlist, it wasnt there this morning. Looking at the history, it says that the showing was no longer available. Yet when changing to 212 I see the browns/jets game. But I'd already recorded, watched and deleted that 'episode' several days ago.

The guide data a day or two ago didnt list who was playing in the game, just a generic "nfl preseason football". But looking at the guide data when the show was on had the team names in it.

So the recorder was going to record the show, then saw the guide data change and realized it'd already recorded it and I'd already watched it. So it removed it from the todo list.

But the history message is confusing. It should say something like "show description changed, was previously recorded/watched, not recorded again" or "show was previously recorded and wont be recorded again", or tivo's "this episode appeared in the now showing list in the past 30 days" (or whatever it is).


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

either way it's a problem and D* has yet to fix it. I DON'T CARE if it is a data stream problem...if it is, it's still a D* problem and they haven't fixed it.


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## mikek (May 18, 2007)

Add "Max & Ruby" and "George and Martha" to the list. 

I think a few other kids shows stopped recording. I have never had any problems with normal TV shows.

-mk


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

Hey...at least they can keep pushing out new versions of DVR's before they can make the original unit's work. NICE!!! That should show you where their priorities are on the DVR line of products. Stability of recordings is apparently not one of them.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

luckydob said:


> either way it's a problem and D* has yet to fix it. I DON'T CARE if it is a data stream problem...if it is, it's still a D* problem and they haven't fixed it.


The channels are responsible for their listings, not DirecTV. This has been covered 1000 times. You, as a consumer, should contact the channel and tell them you don't watch their programming because of their incorrect programming information.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I agree, there needs to be a way to record shows regardless of episode title, etc...


Shows with bad information are much worse than shows with no information. You can always resort to a manual recording with a high priority.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

gregjones said:


> The channels are responsible for their listings, not DirecTV. This has been covered 1000 times. You, as a consumer, should contact the channel and tell them you don't watch their programming because of their incorrect programming information.


I don't do business with the channels directly. I do however with D*. Why should I call them? It's a problem on the D* service...THEY should call them. BTW this RARELY IF EVER happened on the DTivo units. So...tell me what happened from one version of DVR to the other that makes the data stream change so much????????? Did D* tell the channels that they have a new DVR and they should get a new way to send out data? I guess the 1000 times this has been covered we never really got an answer? :nono2:


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

luckydob said:


> I don't do business with the channels directly. I do however with D*. Why should I call them? It's a problem on the D* service...THEY should call them. BTW this RARELY IF EVER happened on the DTivo units. So...tell me what happened from one version of DVR to the other that makes the data stream change so much????????? Did D* tell the channels that they have a new DVR and they should get a new way to send out data? I guess the 1000 times this has been covered we never really got an answer? :nono2:


This has happened a number of time on DTivo units as I had one of them. It is specific to the channel information presented. It is obvious that some channels are better at this than others. The reason the data stream changes so much would be the people providing the data. When channels start changing the way they setup schedules, they often make changes at the last minute. These last minute changes often result in them changing an episode after they send the data. Some networks will make it appear that they are sending the same show over and over for marathons, completely killing the DVR's ability to discern the difference. The DirecTivo units use the data slightly differently than the HR2x units, but the data is still wrong.

If DirecTV were compiling the programming data you would have a point. It has been covered 1000 times, you just didn't like the answer. If the channels don't put up accurate information, the DVR cannot act on it.

And the channel really doesn't care whether DirecTV likes their data. The channel is interested in viewers for ad sales. If the viewers aren't there (and document that), the channels lose their ability to make money.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

I rarely had a tivo or dtivo fail to record a show, at least until after directv changed to the 'new data stream' a couple of years ago. Then we really only occasionally missed a few shows that did last minute guide data changes.

If anything, tivo was more likely to record something that you really didnt want (like a re-run on a first-run season pass) than decide to not record something that it turns out you actually did want.

As far as the guide data content, maybe its because I 'discussed' this for years with the tivo folks and feel like its an old topic...but I buy a product/service from directv. Its their responsibility to manage their suppliers to assure a quality product...not mine.

When Ford has a rash of bad tires, they dont do a whiff and ask their car buyers to go work it out with Firestone. If I buy a leather couch from Drexel-Heritage and the leather has a defect, they dont ask me to go take it up with the cow.

But winding back around the horn, I dont think its the quality of the guide data as much as a problem with trying to respond to it in real-time. The tivo worked pretty well on the same guide data source, and the directivo did as well until they made the change to the 'real time/interactive' source.

I'm fine with my DVR looking at a program guide once a day and scheduling its shows, then sticking with that.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I understand your frustrations. It's really not worth it though. It's now two years since release and the HR2x series just can't record these types of shows consistently. It probably never will. I've heard all the reasons, excuses and taken the bashing. We've all sent in hundreds of reports, history logs, etc. DirecTV just doesn't care enough to solve the issue....but you can.

Buy DVDs...kids DVDs are relatively inexpensive and can be purchased at big discounts, on eBay and from your local garage sale. It'll make your children happy and you can just let the frustration of this slop go. 

I'm not saying don't report the bugs...because at the very least we're letting others know of the problem...but remember at the end of the day the idea is to get some fun programming to our sons and daughters.


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