# 3D TV .. What doesn't work (Hardware)



## Doug Brott

This thread is to replace the earlier 3DTV .. What works, what doesn't thread to try and narrow down EXACTLY what hardware that you guys consider broken.

So rather than blame DIRECTV for not showing 3DTV on your set or suggest what DIRECTV needs to do to "fix" the problem, list the hardware that you have and why you think it's broken.

This includes everything .. DVR model and firmware, TV model and firmware (if possible), AVR model and firmware (if possible), glasses model and firmware (if possible), any switches, converters, voodoo spells, or hexes that may be causing you problems. Also, include a full description of why you think it's not working correctly.

PLEASE, do not turn this into a discussion thread. There are other threads available for that including the one linked above. The goal of this thread is to pass specific technical information to DIRECTV so that they can investigate the situation and hopefully make improvements that will benefit everyone.

Thanks ...


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## RAD

I have a Mits WD-73735 with the 3DC-1000 converter. With a HR24-500 connected directly to the 3DC-1000 and it connected directly to the WD-73735 anytime I use a DVR function it appears that the TV and HR24 lose sync since the video will blank out for a number of seconds. I've replaced the HR24-500 with a HR23-700, that was the only thing that changed, and no problems at all.

UPDATE: As another data point I connected a H21-100 and used MRV to play content from the HR24-500. All DVR functions worked, no losing picture when exiting a DVR function.


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## GregLee

Doug Brott said:


> This includes everything .. DVR model and firmware, TV model and firmware (if possible), AVR model and firmware (if possible), glasses model and firmware (if possible), any switches, converters, voodoo spells, or hexes that may be causing you problems. Also, include a full description of why you think it's not working correctly.



DVR model and firmware: HR24/500, 0x405
[HDTV > Native is set to Off; all resolutions are enabled; current resolution is 1080i]
TV model and firmware: Samsung PN58C8000, T-VALAUSC-1021.2
AVR model and firmware: Pioneer VSX-1020-K
[Video Parameter > RES is set to PURE]
glasses model: Samsung SSG-2200AR
Why it's not working correctly:
Channel 103 n3D can only be successfully tuned to when the previous channel tuned was in 1080i; otherwise an attempt to tune to 103 gets only a black screen with this message: "This 3D program is broadcast in [previous resolution]. Your 3D TV does not support this resolution. (797)", where [previous resolution] is the resolution of the previous channel tuned. For instance, if I tune first to 206 ESPNHD, then I tune to 103, the message will say that this 3D program is broadcast in 720p (which of course is not true). If I tune first to any SD channel before changing to 103, the message will say that this 3D program is broadcast in 480i (which is silly). Also, if I am tuned to a 1080i HD channel, but I have the TV's 2d->3d conversion turned on, video is also blocked with the above message, which now says the 3D program is broadcast in 720p.

Comment: This problem is easy to work around: just remember to tune to a 1080i channel (and turn off 2d->3d conversion) before trying channel 103 (or trying to play a 3D recording, which works the same way).


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## geaux tigers

I know this is not an officially supported setup but here it is.

I listed the gear in the order that they are connected.

HR24-500
Mitsubishi 3DA-1
Gefen HDMI Detective Plus with the EDID of a Mitsubishi Diamond Model WD73837 
Onkyo TX-SR805 A/V Receiver
Samsung HL61A750 (3D ready DLP HDTV)

Samsung SSG1000 3D Glasses

I am able to get a great 3D picture after the recent adjustments DirecTv made to the way it broadcasts the 3D signal. Thank you DirecTv.

However, my audio through my Onkyo is only PCM 2.0 even though I have Dolby Digital set to on in the HR24-500 menu. My guess is that the HR24-500 is reading the EDID information to determine what audio format to send out rather than the customers selection from the audio menu from the DirecTv Receiver. The 3D checkerboard signal that is converted from the 3DA-1 is compatible with HDMI 1.3 equipment unlike the other 3D signals. 

If DirecTv would use the customers audio selection rather than the EDID information for audio selection then this problem would go away. Others who use a 3DA-1 have indicated that they own other gear that allows the user to determine the audio rather than the EDID so I know this is possible.

I am not looking for official support from DirecTv with my setup as I know that it is not officially supported but the fix seems so simple that it sure would be nice for DirecTv to do it. Additionally, I do not see how a fix would impact anyone else negatively. I know of many others that are using a similar 3D setup. Thanks.


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## jwitt

This is not an officially supported setup, but it works great.
Gear is listed in order of connection:

HR21-200 (0x3de)
Mitsubishi 3DA-1
Gefen HDMI Detective Plus with the EDID of a Mitsubishi WD73C9 
Samsung HL72A650 (3D ready DLP HDTV,original firmware.)
(Onkyo A/V Receiver handling audio only via digital from DVR.)
XpanD Link 102 glasses.

I am able to get a great 3D picture and it switches back and forth between all resolutions of 2d and back to 3d without a problem since the 3d channels became active recently. I believe it started working after recent guide threshhold adjustments made by DirecTv. Much appreciated!

Problem: For a few days, all the 3d channels have been active, not greyed out. Yesterday, I noticed that channel 104, Cine3d pay for view (Imax Nascar) is now greyed out. Any attempt to buy or record gives the message, *"Your receiver is not authorized"* message. My receiver is plugged into a phone line and networked. Others are having the same problem.

All the 3d from the guide and programing via VOD had automatically arrived at the tv in the correct checkerboard format, except VOD soccer. It arrives in a side by side format requiring a mode change. Not a big problem, just an observation for your information.
Thanks, JIM


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## raclevel

Components listed in order of preferred connections:

HR22-100 SW 0x3de (HDMI); Sony BDP-S560 (HDMI); XBOX360 (HDMI); HP Desktop (HDMI); JVC MC303 Karaoke Player (Compasite, RCA); Yamaha PF800 Turntable (RCA)

Yamaha AVR RX-V3900 Firmware Vers: 1.11 
3DC-1000 converter, Mitsubishi and Samsung Glasses
Mitsubishi DLP WD 73833 Firmware Vers 9.01
Universal Remote Logitech Harmony 880

Speaker Systems - Mains Paradign Studio Ref 100 (2ea), Center Paradigm Studio REf (1ea), Surrounds Polk Audio Lsi/FX (4ea); Subwoofer MK MX200

Problem 1: All 3D channels grayed out if a HDMI 1.3 AVR is placed between DVR and 3DC-1000 converter with message that Receiver or TV not 3D capable. This is reported to be due to the EDID Check for 3D hardware and a fix to allow the 3D content to be sent regardless of this check would be greatly appreciated as it requires additional cables and recabling each time if multiple 3D sources are used ie 3D blu-ray and DTV DVR as the 3DC-1000 converter has only one HDMI input and output...Also requires aditional switching of TV inputs etc...

Problem 2: With AVR bybassed ie DVR to Converter to TV: DVR must be turned off then back on to get video to display on TV. This must be done anytime I switch from 2D channel to 3D channel, or from 3D channel to 2D channel, or if the DVR is reset. Audio works via optical connection between DVR and AVR but not video..I get a blue screen on the TV until I do the off/on to the DVR sometimes must be done several times. Problem 2 was fixed with a firmware update on the TV to version 9.03

Problem 3: Channel 104 is currently grayed out but 103, 105 and 106 are good to go..3D Channels are intermittently greyed out but seem to get normal if one is tuned to seccussfully..


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## scubawoman

Mitsubishi WD 73835
3DC-1000
Onkyo TX-NR905
HR24-50
Octava 5x1 switch

I have a suggestion for Directv. With their next HD DVR to have 2 HDMI, 1 of which you can turn video off to allow sound so you can connect to 1.3 avr instead of having to use optical out.

I am not having any problems with anything not working.


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## geaux tigers

geaux tigers said:


> I know this is not an officially supported setup but here it is.
> 
> I listed the gear in the order that they are connected.
> 
> HR24-500
> Mitsubishi 3DA-1
> Gefen HDMI Detective Plus with the EDID of a Mitsubishi Diamond Model WD73837
> Onkyo TX-SR805 A/V Receiver
> Samsung HL61A750 (3D ready DLP HDTV)
> 
> Samsung SSG1000 3D Glasses
> 
> I am able to get a great 3D picture after the recent adjustments DirecTv made to the way it broadcasts the 3D signal. Thank you DirecTv.
> 
> However, my audio through my Onkyo is only PCM 2.0 even though I have Dolby Digital set to on in the HR24-500 menu. My guess is that the HR24-500 is reading the EDID information to determine what audio format to send out rather than the customers selection from the audio menu from the DirecTv Receiver. The 3D checkerboard signal that is converted from the 3DA-1 is compatible with HDMI 1.3 equipment unlike the other 3D signals.
> 
> If DirecTv would use the customers audio selection rather than the EDID information for audio selection then this problem would go away. Others who use a 3DA-1 have indicated that they own other gear that allows the user to determine the audio rather than the EDID so I know this is possible.
> 
> I am not looking for official support from DirecTv with my setup as I know that it is not officially supported but the fix seems so simple that it sure would be nice for DirecTv to do it. Additionally, I do not see how a fix would impact anyone else negatively. I know of many others that are using a similar 3D setup. Thanks.


My HR24-500 rebooted on its on. So far I have been unable to reestablish the 3D signal. I wonder if Directv changed its broadcasting code again. The 3D channels are not greyed out but just will not play. My 3D recordings also will not play. I get a this TV is not 3D capable message. Anyone else having problems? Everything was working prior as described above prior to the reboot.


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## jwitt

HR21-200 (0x3de)
Mitsubishi 3DA-1
Gefen HDMI Detective Plus with the EDID of a Mitsubishi WD73C9 
Samsung HL72A650 (3D ready DLP HDTV,original firmware.)
(Onkyo A/V Receiver handling audio only via digital from DVR.)
XpanD Link 102 glasses.


104 still greyed out and won't let me "Pay for view".
I had hoped that we could get some feed back on problems like this from D*.
It takes time to write these posts and we are doing it to help D* as much as ourselves.
They could say we are working on it, be patient, a few more days, a few weeks, never, whatever.
It would save us and D* many time consuming calls to tech support, who really don't have a clue about the current problems. During my call to tech support, I was told that there was something wrong with my receiver, and if a reset didn't fixit, call back and they would send out a new DVR.
Well, maybe I do need a new receiver.
JIM


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## BlvJohn

Doug Brott said:


> So rather than blame DIRECTV for not showing 3DTV on your set or suggest what DIRECTV needs to do to "fix" the problem, list the hardware that you have and why you think it's broken.


TV: Panasonic TC-P58VT25
DVR: DirecTV (HR21)
AVR: Onkyo TX-SR608

Issue: HDMI 3D handshake does not properly pass through AVR. The TV needs to be manually set to convert the side-by-side video stream. This is a known issue and reportedly may affect other, newer Onkyo 1.4a AVRs.

Background: Reserach on various forums suggest that either: 1) the Onkyo AVR is not properly passing the HDMI 1.4a 3D Infoframe/VSI data from the DirecTV DVR to the Panasonic TV or 2) DirecTV decided to not use the HDMI 1.4 spec for the 3D InfoFrame/VSI data and are using their own technique built on the HDMI 1.3 spec which the Onkyo AVR does not recognize and pass properly (however, the Panasonic TV does recognize it if directly connected to the DirecTV DVR).

Onkyo Firmware Fix: Regardless of the exact problem, Onkyo reportedly has an 'experimental' firmware upgrade that addresses the issue; however, it has not been officially released and it is not clear if, when, or how it will be released (upgrading firmware on the TX-SR608 requires upload of an encoded audio file and can be risky for non-technicians to implement).

DirecTV Fix: I am not aware of any fix being worked on by DirecTV.


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## DarinC

Now that my adapter is here, I can confirm that the following does not work:

HR21-200 -> Onkyo TX-SR875 -> 3DC-1000 3d adapter -> Mitsubishi WD-73736 TV.

The DVR gives me the message about not having a 3D display. When the receiver is out of the loop, it works. But then of course I have my audio issues, I can't use the built in scaler, and I'd have to get another switch to view other devices in 3d.

As far as what DirecTV needs to do to fix this: Allow selection of 3d output even if the DVR doesn't think there's a 3d display.


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## Doug Brott

Please be advised that I have deleted a number of posts from this thread .. This thread is for specific problems only, not discussion.

If you'd like to discuss something in particular either open a new thread or use an existing one. Thank You.


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## geaux tigers

geaux tigers said:


> I know this is not an officially supported setup but here it is.
> 
> I listed the gear in the order that they are connected.
> 
> HR24-500
> Mitsubishi 3DA-1
> Gefen HDMI Detective Plus with the EDID of a Mitsubishi Diamond Model WD73837
> Onkyo TX-SR805 A/V Receiver
> Samsung HL61A750 (3D ready DLP HDTV)
> 
> Samsung SSG1000 3D Glasses
> 
> I am able to get a great 3D picture after the recent adjustments DirecTv made to the way it broadcasts the 3D signal. Thank you DirecTv.
> 
> However, my audio through my Onkyo is only PCM 2.0 even though I have Dolby Digital set to on in the HR24-500 menu. My guess is that the HR24-500 is reading the EDID information to determine what audio format to send out rather than the customers selection from the audio menu from the DirecTv Receiver. The 3D checkerboard signal that is converted from the 3DA-1 is compatible with HDMI 1.3 equipment unlike the other 3D signals.
> 
> If DirecTv would use the customers audio selection rather than the EDID information for audio selection then this problem would go away. Others who use a 3DA-1 have indicated that they own other gear that allows the user to determine the audio rather than the EDID so I know this is possible.
> 
> I am not looking for official support from DirecTv with my setup as I know that it is not officially supported but the fix seems so simple that it sure would be nice for DirecTv to do it. Additionally, I do not see how a fix would impact anyone else negatively. I know of many others that are using a similar 3D setup. Thanks.


I was able to reestablish 3D service several days back. However, my audio through HDMI is still limited to PCM 2.0 using the same setup that I posted before.

In the guide it lists my 3D supported resolutions as 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24, 1080p/30, and 1080p/60.

I did a report for DirecTv and the the report number is 20100817-1369.


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## coreyschaaf

Hey all, I have been reading and doing lots of research as to which receiver to try as even the 1.4 receivers are having issues with direcTV's 3D signal. I can however confirm the following does work:

Mitsubishi WD-73835 TV (Using 1.4 HDMI cables) connected to:
Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 Adapter (using 1.4 HDMI cables) connected to:
Denon AVR-2311 CL connected to:

PS3 System (using a 1.4 HDMI cable)
DirecTV hr24-500 (using a 1.4 HDMI cable)
Xbox 360 (using 1.3 cable)

Note: I am not using DirecTV's recommended setting of passing the Audio to the Reciever using an Optical cable and connecting the adapter directly to the 3DC-1000 (kind of pointless if you have multiple components needing the Adapter). I am using 1.4 HDMI cables and the Denon AVR-2311 CL is passing DirecTV's 3D signal without any interruptions.

I watched 3D in my house last night and it was pretty cool. If you have any questions on my setup or how I got it to work, feel free to ask. I was just as frustrated as alot of you. One thing when hooking up the system, you must power everything down and back up when you first hook everything up as DirecTV's signal wasn't recognizing the signal the first time through. I think the HDMI connections needed to be reset, but I haven't had any problems other than that.

Also, go to electronics-expo.com and use the coupon code LABORDAYWEEKEND and get the receiver I mentioned above for $647.00 including shipping and taxes (it's priced at $899.99 at BestBuy and Ultimate Electronics. That's where mine came from (all new non-refurbished systems in case you're wondering).

One note on this receiver - the IPOD Dock / USB port on the front does not seem to be compatible with iPhone's OS4.0. iPhone OS3.0 are reported to be working.


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## JackBarry

Mitsubishi's new TV models WD-73738 and WD-73838 support both Side by Side and Checkerboard signals. 
1. Is there anyone out who has or know anyone who has successfully hooked up a Direct TV Receiver directly to the above TV models with out using the Mitsubishi Adaptor. 
2. Has anyone with an Onkyo Receiver or Pre-amp successfully passed a 3D signal to the Mitsubishi Adaptor or Directly to the TV without the Mitsu Adaptor?
3. Has anyone used a powered HDMI Splitter attached to the Direct TV Receiver with the DTV Receiver attached to the Mitsu Adaptor and the other HDMI output from the Splitter attached to an Onkyo AVR or Pre-amp.


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## RAD

With the VSX-33 in the signal path HR23-700->VSX-33->Mits 3DC-1000->Mits WD-73735 I'm unable to play 3D content. The HR23 is reporting the ONLY 3D resolution that's supported is 1080i. The HR23 is reporting all the 2D resolutions via the Pioneer correctly, just the 3D is messed up. Everything I've tried to play is blocked by the HR23 saying it needs to be either 720p or 1080p/24. Pull the Pioneer out of the signal path and all is fine again. Tried every setting I could in the video and HDMI setup on the Pioneer, no joy. 

I called Pioneer support and they can back saying there must be some incompatability between the two boxes and they'd open a ticket for me. Never mind, box is going back, guess I'll just stick with the Denon AVR-891 which is working.


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## GregLee

RAD said:


> The HR23 is reporting the ONLY 3D resolution that's supported is 1080i.


But isn't that correct? AFAIK all the 3D on DirecTV has been 1080i. Normally, my HR24-500 says the only supported resolution is 1080i for 3D. (Sometimes it says all resolutions are supported in 3D, but I think at those times it is just confused.)


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## RAD

GregLee said:


> But isn't that correct? AFAIK all the 3D on DirecTV has been 1080i. Normally, my HR24-500 says the only supported resolution is 1080i for 3D. (Sometimes it says all resolutions are supported in 3D, but I think at those times it is just confused.)


Not in my setup. The Misc Options shows 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24, 1080p/30 and 1080p/60. I tried to view what was on ch 103 and STB said display didn't support 720p and wouldn't play it. Tried a recording and STB said display didn't support 1080p/24 and wouldn't play it.


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## GregLee

RAD said:


> I tried to view what was on ch 103 and STB said display didn't support 720p and wouldn't play it.


I've played all the programs on ch 103 (and the CES demo) and asked my TV what the resolution was (using the Info button). It always says 1080i. I don't believe there is anything on ch 103 that is not in 1080i. I also get the error message you mention from my HR24-500 that I've asked to play a 3D 720p program on ch 103 (as I've reported previously), but my interpretation is that the D* receiver is just hopelessly confused. It's a bug.


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## RAD

GregLee said:


> I've played all the programs on ch 103 (and the CES demo) and asked my TV what the resolution was (using the Info button). It always says 1080i. I don't believe there is anything on ch 103 that is not in 1080i. I also get the error message you mention from my HR24-500 that I've asked to play a 3D 720p program on ch 103 (as I've reported previously), but my interpretation is that the D* receiver is just hopelessly confused. It's a bug.


When I play stuff from 103, like the Africa stuff, my receiver (using HR23-700 due to problems with HR24-500) it lights up the 720 and 1080 LED's which means it's putting out 1080p. I also check the TV's info display and the video info on the Denon AVR and they both also report 1080p.

I do have a problem playing DoD 3D recordings, they may start out saying 1080i or 1080p according to the HR23's LED and then if I use 30skip it will toggle to the other output resolution, do it again and it toggles back, each time causing a resync between the HR23 and the TV.


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## GregLee

RAD said:


> I also check the TV's info display and the video info on the Denon AVR and they both also report 1080p.


That's confusing. Well, I guess this posting will be deleted, just as Doug deleted a previous posting which was more about interpretation of facts than about facts, so perhaps it is not worth pursuing here.


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## Folin

So the Onkyo TX-SR508, I just bought in anticipation of 3D viewing...is not going to work out?

HR20-100 and/or HR20-700 currently in use, was hoping it would work out on a Samsung HL67A750.


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## dublus

HR21/700 0x04d
3DC-1000
Mits WD-73C9

All connected with HDMI 1.3b cables.

3D worked perfectly from Saturday (9-4) until the following Monday night.
Tuesday morning started getting "This program cannot play because this TV is not 3D capable" message. 3D has not worked since. Nothing was touched between the time 3D worked and when it stopped working except tuning off the TV. Incredibly frustrated with D* for not allowing 3D to play given the known trouble(s) with HDMI handshake. Who does it harm?

Come on D*, as Moses once said, "Let my 3D go!". (okay, he didn't say that but he would if he were around)


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## Av8r

Why is using ff or rwd such a problem? Everytime I use them during 3D playback on the DVR it takes about 15 seconds for the screen to come back. It seems to be resetting the signal.


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## RAD

Av8r said:


> Why is using ff or rwd such a problem? Everytime I use them during 3D playback on the DVR it takes about 15 seconds for the screen to come back. It seems to be resetting the signal.


What model HD DVR are you using?


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## Av8r

HR24-500 I currently have 'Native" on. I read elsewhere that turning it off might help, but i had it off for awhile and i seem to have resolution problems then. My channel changing is pretty slow too, but nothing like the 15 second delay after ff or fwd when watching 3D. The 3D looks spectacular btw on my Mits 65737 DLP


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## RAD

Av8r said:


> HR24-500 I currently have 'Native" on. I read elsewhere that turning it off might help, but i had it off for awhile and i seem to have resolution problems then. My channel changing is pretty slow too, but nothing like the 15 second delay after ff or fwd when watching 3D. The 3D looks spectacular btw on my Mits 65737 DLP


That was I was thinking might be the issue, the HR24-500. I have three of them and they all do the same thing, use a DVR function and the TV and DVR lose sync and get a blank screen 10 to 15 seconds.

Do you have any other model HD receiver besides the HR24-500 you can try? I have put a HR23-700, HR22-100 and H21-200 in place of the HR24-500 and those receivers don't have the problem on my Mits WD-73735.


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## JackBarry

Mitsubishi's new 2010 TV models WD-..738 and WD-..838 support both Side by Side and Checkerboard signals. I was told that the Direct TV receiver does not recognize the Mitsu TV as 3D capable. Is there anyone out there who has successfully hooked up a Direct TV Receiver directly to the above (Mitsu ..738 & ..838) TV models with out using the Mitsubishi Adaptor. Secondly has anyone with an Onkyo Receiver or Pre-Amp successfully passed a 3D signal to the Mitsubishi Adaptor or Directly to the TV without the Mitsu Adaptor?


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## RAD

Here's an interesting take on DirecTV and 3D, http://hd.engadget.com/2010/09/25/follow-the-money-the-real-reason-why-your-avr-doesnt-support-d/ .



> You see RealD owns the patent on frame compatible 3D formats like side by side, and if a display or receiver manufacturer wants its EDID on the list of supported devices, they have to pay for that right. So it isn't that DirecTV wants to prevent you from using your old receiver as much as it is about preventing those who don't license RealD's patents from being able to display 3D. Nice huh, but no one ever said it was about the customer.


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## DarinC

Nice. :nono2:

While I can't say that the real reason doesn't piss me off, at least there's an answer that makes sense, rather than some of the smoke some have been trying to blow up our skirts. Though I still don't understand why this isn't a universal issue. There have been reports of FIOS and other providers not having this problem. It also doesn't make sense that 2010 Mits TVs don't work w/o the adapter. They support SbS natively, so they presumably paid the fee. 

Leave it to the HDMI org to again. f*** us over. Choosing formats that require licensing, and therefore by nature obsolesce existing equipment, even though it should otherwise work. Makes me glad it's been hacked.


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## SomeRandomIdiot

Something has gone south with D* 3D Channel 106 permissions as of 11:00:00PM EDT on Saturday 9/25/2010.

First, let me say I have viewed the 3D programming without any issues (except the widely known issues along the way) since June. Yes, Directv screwed up the beginning of the game - but they have really screwed up Channel 106 since 11PM last night.

During the Saturday Evening SEC game which was listed in the program guide to run from 7:30pm - 11:00pm, at EXACTLY 11:00:00 PM with just less than 3 minutes to go in the game, my screen went blank with a blue box that states "Your TV does not support this program's content protection".

I have both a Panasonic VT25 and a 2010 Mitsubishi - same issue on both.

I can view the game on the DVR right up until 11:00:00PM and then nothing is displayed.

Furthermore, I still cannot tune to Channel 106 today without getting the warning. Watching Channel 103 for Tennis today for 6 hours was not an issue, nor was watching 3D programming on Channel 103 after 11PM last night.

I have unplugged and rebooted the TVs, adapters and HR21.

Still no joy.

Clearly, a command was sent out at what was "supposed" to be the end of the game in the guide at 11:00:00 PM and it has killed my connection on Channel 106.

I intend to call D* but did not want to do so today, figuring ST issues will be tying up the lines.

How many others are experiencing this and Doug, what can be done to fix prior to next Saturday's game?


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## Maleman

Where can I find a 3D schedule? I sometimes fine LIVE events on my guide that I had no idea where available?

Any NHL in 3D this year etc?

Thank u


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## RAD

Maleman said:


> Where can I find a 3D schedule? I sometimes fine LIVE events on my guide that I had no idea where available?
> 
> Any NHL in 3D this year etc?
> 
> Thank u


Channel 103 is the 24x7 3D channel, but in the two+ months I've had 3D I think they've added only 3 new programs to the loop.

Channel 106 is the ESPN3D channel, check www.espn.com/3d for a schedule, which usually says TBA and only shows the next weeks CFB game.


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## rabit ears

Samsung UN55C8000 
HR20-100 Doesn't work
HR20-700 Works fine

All cables are new, switched HDMI cables between the two DTV units and the Samsung DVD Player and two out of three worked on every port into the TV on every cable.

Samsung says that the device must be HDMI 1.4, however; the HR20-700 works just fine. The HR20-100 does work with component, but I understand that I need HDMI and component looks bad snaking up the wall.

Any ideas? I have a tech coming out on Saturday and if he refuses to replace the box with one that works (I have protection plan) I have Dish guy scheduled for Sunday and if I'm not happy with the D* response, I'm gone.


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## RAD

No HR20 is supposed to work for 3D programming and DirecTV says they'll replace them with a HR21 or greater. See http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2818/related/1



> What type of equipment will DIRECTV customers need to access HD 3D programming? .DIRECTV customers will need to have an HD DVR (HR21 or above) or an HD receiver (H21 or above), a 3D television set, 3D glasses, an HDMI cable and HD Access


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## geaux tigers

geaux tigers said:


> I know this is not an officially supported setup but here it is.
> 
> I listed the gear in the order that they are connected.
> 
> HR24-500
> Mitsubishi 3DA-1
> Gefen HDMI Detective Plus with the EDID of a Mitsubishi Diamond Model WD73837
> Onkyo TX-SR805 A/V Receiver
> Samsung HL61A750 (3D ready DLP HDTV)
> 
> Samsung SSG1000 3D Glasses
> 
> I am able to get a great 3D picture after the recent adjustments DirecTv made to the way it broadcasts the 3D signal. Thank you DirecTv.
> 
> However, my audio through my Onkyo is only PCM 2.0 even though I have Dolby Digital set to on in the HR24-500 menu. My guess is that the HR24-500 is reading the EDID information to determine what audio format to send out rather than the customers selection from the audio menu from the DirecTv Receiver. The 3D checkerboard signal that is converted from the 3DA-1 is compatible with HDMI 1.3 equipment unlike the other 3D signals.
> 
> If DirecTv would use the customers audio selection rather than the EDID information for audio selection then this problem would go away. Others who use a 3DA-1 have indicated that they own other gear that allows the user to determine the audio rather than the EDID so I know this is possible.
> 
> I am not looking for official support from DirecTv with my setup as I know that it is not officially supported but the fix seems so simple that it sure would be nice for DirecTv to do it. Additionally, I do not see how a fix would impact anyone else negatively. I know of many others that are using a similar 3D setup. Thanks.


Electricity flickered today and my DVR reset. Normally when that happens I have to go through several steps to get the HR24 to recognize my HDTV as being 3D compliant. However, this time it recognized everything immediately and I was able to tune to a 3D channel. If DirecTv changed anything then please do not change it back. Maybe, I was just lucky since the electricity was out for such a short period of time.


----------



## Malibu13

RAD said:


> Not in my setup. The Misc Options shows 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24, 1080p/30 and 1080p/60. I tried to view what was on ch 103 and STB said display didn't support 720p and wouldn't play it. Tried a recording and STB said display didn't support 1080p/24 and wouldn't play it.


question for you guys that already own a 3D set.

If the tv is only a 720p set connected directly to HR24, how will this affect viewing of the n3D channels?


----------



## hasan

geaux tigers said:


> Electricity flickered today and my DVR reset. Normally when that happens I have to go through several steps to get the HR24 to recognize my HDTV as being 3D compliant. However, this time it recognized everything immediately and I was able to tune to a 3D channel. If DirecTv changed anything then please do not change it back. Maybe, I was just lucky since the electricity was out for such a short period of time.


If you care about your DVR and HDTV, put them on a UPS and you won't have the flicker problems, and are likely to protect it from the dirty power that the flicker represents. Consider your DVR a computer (it has a hard drive that is writing all the time), and with a UPS you get both surge protection and full back up (to cover power winkies and anywhere from 10 minutes to half an hour of full back up time to cover missed recordings.)


----------



## Guindalf

My system won't give me 3D! I have the following...

Mitsi 65735 3D ready TV
Mitsi 3D starter kit
HR21/2 (swapped - both behaving the same)
Onkyo TXR707 (out of the video loop - using coax for audio).

All I get when I try to tune in to the 3D channels is "This channel cannot be displayed as your TV is not 3D capable".

So far, I have tried rebooting/resetting the TV, the adapter and the DVR, swapping all the HDMI cables, removing and reseating all other cables, discnnecting the RCA to the receiver, standing on one leg (well, maybe not), calling D* for advice (over an hour and they tell me to log into DBSTalk!), Mitsubishi customer support (can't help, will get back to me within 1 business day!).

Any other suggestions?

BTW, it worked briefly yesterday, so I know it's possible!


----------



## wrk24wheel

Guindalf said:


> My system won't give me 3D! I have the following...
> 
> Mitsi 65735 3D ready TV
> Mitsi 3D starter kit
> HR21/2 (swapped - both behaving the same)
> Onkyo TXR707 (out of the video loop - using coax for audio).
> 
> All I get when I try to tune in to the 3D channels is "This channel cannot be displayed as your TV is not 3D capable".
> 
> So far, I have tried rebooting/resetting the TV, the adapter and the DVR, swapping all the HDMI cables, removing and reseating all other cables, discnnecting the RCA to the receiver, standing on one leg (well, maybe not), calling D* for advice (over an hour and they tell me to log into DBSTalk!), Mitsubishi customer support (can't help, will get back to me within 1 business day!).
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> 
> BTW, it worked briefly yesterday, so I know it's possible!


I had the same problem. According to direcTv, if you hook up a 3D television to a box that was connected to a non-3D TV, you need to go back through the satellite setup. I did this and now all of the channels are there and not grayed out. Everything is working great outside of the handshaking issues.


----------



## wrk24wheel

Sharp LC-60LE925UN LCD
Integra 80.2 Processor
DirecTv HR22/100 0x40d

3D Seems to be the only thing that works now. Before swapping out the processor and TV, I never had any handshaking issues. Now, I can barely watch TV. It seems like it is prominently with 1080p. If the resolution is 480p I have not yet had any handshaking issues. With 720p I have had a few. Set to 1080p, I can barely get it to show a picture, maybe 1 out of ever 50 times. I need to set it to 720p and it comes on fine. I am sure that it is the DVR as my PS3 will output a 1080p signal to the 80.2 just fine. I have tried different cable as well as different inputs. Does not matter and the problem is only with the DVR and no other devices hooked up to the Integra. I hope that they get a fix for this fast.


----------



## Guindalf

wrk24wheel said:


> I had the same problem. According to direcTv, if you hook up a 3D television to a box that was connected to a non-3D TV, you need to go back through the satellite setup. I did this and now all of the channels are there and not grayed out. Everything is working great outside of the handshaking issues.


That makes some sense. I'll give it a try when I get home this evening. I did notice that when I swapped the HR22 for the 21 from the bedroom, it tried to connect at 1080p and asked me to verify that the picture was viewable, but neve went to 1080p after that (only the 1080i light and not both).

D* tech support basically directed me to the boards and were no real help, except to try to sell me whole home service!! Mitsubishi helpline was unable to offer any more insight into the problem and just promised me a call back within one business day - whatever that means!


----------



## NR4P

Directv site shows Sony LX900 series as compatible.
Anyone try the NX810 series by Sony? 
Works? Doesn't work?


----------



## taz291819

DarinC said:


> Nice. :nono2:
> 
> While I can't say that the real reason doesn't piss me off, at least there's an answer that makes sense, rather than some of the smoke some have been trying to blow up our skirts. Though I still don't understand why this isn't a universal issue. There have been reports of FIOS and other providers not having this problem. It also doesn't make sense that 2010 Mits TVs don't work w/o the adapter. They support SbS natively, so they presumably paid the fee.
> 
> Leave it to the HDMI org to again. f*** us over. Choosing formats that require licensing, and therefore by nature obsolesce existing equipment, even though it should otherwise work. Makes me glad it's been hacked.


They still haven't added the 2010 Mits models yet? Wow, that is surprising.


----------



## SomeRandomIdiot

Donnie Byrd said:


> question for you guys that already own a 3D set.
> 
> If the tv is only a 720p set connected directly to HR24, how will this affect viewing of the n3D channels?


I know this is over a month old, but as no one has answered it.....there are NO 3D HDTVs that only do 720P so that isn't an issue.


----------



## samrs

Samsung - 50" Class / 720p / 600Hz / 3D Plasma HDTV


Available at Bestbuy while supply's last.


----------



## redskins4life

Tried every thing can't watch recorded content except for the hockey game i recorded a week ago. ps3 and blu ray work fine. using pioneer receiver with hdmi 1.4 . Direct tv claims they have never heard of this issue yeah right.


----------



## kingram52

Anyone using a LG 47 or 55LX9500 with Directv & 3D?


----------



## Gotchaa

Sony HTCT-350 Surround Bar with any HR series DVR. When you connect directly to the display it works fine. Here is what Sony Engineering had to say about this problem:



> I escalated your event to engineering and they tested the sound bar (HTCT350) with the same direct TV receiver (Direct TV HR22-100) to a Sony 3D TV (KDL55HX800) and the 3D content was able to play back normally. Engineering has suggested that if there is content issues with VOD the issue lies with Direct TV. Engineering is stating it is a direct TV issue and there are no plans to update the HTCT350. Other than waiting for direct TV to do a firmware update we do not have any other technical support options available at this time.


And DirecTV of course says it a Sony soundbar issue, which I believe to be the case thus far, they also say we only support direct DVR to TV connectivity, which is less than 10% of their users I bet...


----------



## NR4P

Gotchaa said:


> Sony HTCT-350 Surround Bar with any HR series DVR. When you connect directly to the display it works fine. Here is what Sony Engineering had to say about this problem:
> 
> "I escalated your event to engineering and they tested the sound bar (HTCT350) with the same direct TV receiver (Direct TV HR22-100) to a Sony 3D TV (KDL55HX800) and the 3D content was able to play back normally. Engineering has suggested that if there is content issues with VOD the issue lies with Direct TV. Engineering is stating it is a direct TV issue and there are no plans to update the HTCT350. Other than waiting for direct TV to do a firmware update we do not have any other technical support options available at this time. "
> 
> And DirecTV of course says it a Sony soundbar issue, which I believe to be the case thus far, they also say we only support direct DVR to TV connectivity, which is less than 10% of their users I bet...


I would be one of those folks that connect the DVR directly to the TV. But that aside, you haven't really stated the problem. The Sony quote mentions VOD but claims 3D content is fine.

When you use your CT350, what specifically doesn't work?


----------



## Gotchaa

NR4P said:


> I would be one of those folks that connect the DVR directly to the TV. But that aside, you haven't really stated the problem. The Sony quote mentions VOD but claims 3D content is fine.
> 
> When you use your CT350, what specifically doesn't work?


Anything presented in 1080p/24 thus far seems to be an issue. When I pass it thru the Sony box, go into the DVR's miscellaneous options menu and look at supported display resolutions I do not see 3D support for 720p or 1080p/24, when I direct connect those resolutions in the menu pop right up.


----------



## NR4P

Gotchaa said:


> Anything presented in 1080p/24 thus far seems to be an issue. When I pass it thru the Sony box, go into the DVR's miscellaneous options menu and look at supported display resolutions I do not see 3D support for 720p or 1080p/24, when I direct connect those resolutions in the menu pop right up.


Ah, understand now.

So the DVR to TV sees all the resolutions.
Put a CT350 in between, you lose some resolutions.
Objectively, the CT350 is the issue.

How about this workaround?
Connect DVR to TV directly via HDMI
Connect DVD (BD) to TV directly via HDMI (or component).
Take Optical output from TV and connect that to input of CT350.

While I don't have a CT350, the above is similar to how my system is wired for my soundbar and all works great with all resolutions including 3D and VOD.


----------



## Gotchaa

NR4P said:


> Ah, understand now.
> 
> So the DVR to TV sees all the resolutions.
> Put a CT350 in between, you lose some resolutions.
> Objectively, the CT350 is the issue.
> 
> How about this workaround?
> Connect DVR to TV directly via HDMI
> Connect DVD (BD) to TV directly via HDMI (or component).
> Take Optical output from TV and connect that to input of CT350.
> 
> While I don't have a CT350, the above is similar to how my system is wired for my soundbar and all works great with all resolutions including 3D and VOD.


yes that is what I did using ARC. But I'd like to figure out if it's the DVR or the 350. At any rate, Sony agreed to take the unit back and refund shipping and the price I paid for it, so I will take them up on it if engineering doesn't get me an answer soon.


----------



## Gotchaa

Okay I have another 3D pair issue to report. The JVC DILA RS50 is direct connected to the HR24, it does not see support for 720p/60 and 1080p/24 modes. There is clearly a problem with EDID.

I have a PS3 also directly connected (projector has 2 HDMI inputs). I let the PS3 auto detect and it correctly identified these modes. I was also able to playback 1080p/24 content on the PS3.

Switch to the HR24, and guess what, no luck. Today Xgames was broadcast on the 103, and I got the message that my display doesn't support 720p 3D mode! 

What a bummer all this investment in high end gear and we're struggling with the basics here...help D* Engineering please!

I have a Panasonic VT25 that I am going to hook up next and test as well...


----------



## texasmoose

I just purchased a LG 50PX950 3D PDP, is this TV supported for D*3D? and there is no other fee to enjoy 3d programming, unless ppv 3d cinema right? i have "HDaccess" and Choice Ultimate pckg.


----------



## RAD

texasmoose said:


> I just purchased a LG 50PX950 3D PDP, is this TV supported for D*3D? and there is no other fee to enjoy 3d programming, unless ppv 3d cinema right? i have "HDaccess" and Choice Ultimate pckg.


That TV isn't lised at http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/hd/3d as a supported set. DirecTV uses side-by-side format for it's 3D channels, if you set doesn't support that format you're out of luck. It doesn't hurt anything to try since the HR24's you have support 3D and channel 103 and 106 are free so try it. I'd recommend connecting directly to the TV and not going through a AVR first and then reboot the HR24 so it can discover that you'r connected to a 3D set.


----------



## mjm76

I just tried to watch the Harlem Globetrotters game in 3D today but I am getting a message that my TV does not support 720P 3D. I have watched other sports programs like ESPN 3D which is in 720P before with no problems. Does anyone know why this is happening?

My current setup is: Panasonic 65 inch Plasma (TCP-65VT25), DirecTV HD DVR 24-500 and a Pioneer VSX 1020 (which is 3D capable).

I tried the 3D movie Caroline on my PS3 which is also hooked up to my Pioneer VSX 1020 AVR and the 3D worked great!

*I am wondering if the latest DirecTV update that I received recently messed up the 3D on DirecTV HR24-500?????*

Thanks for anyone's help.


----------



## NR4P

mjm76 said:


> I just tried to watch the Harlem Globetrotters game in 3D today but I am getting a message that my TV does not support 720P 3D. I have watched other sports programs like ESPN 3D which is in 720P before with no problems. Does anyone know why this is happening?
> 
> My current setup is: Panasonic 65 inch Plasma (TCP-65VT25), DirecTV HD DVR 24-500 and a Pioneer VSX 1020 (which is 3D capable).
> 
> I tried the 3D movie Caroline on my PS3 which is also hooked up to my Pioneer VSX 1020 AVR and the 3D worked great!
> 
> *I am wondering if the latest DirecTV update that I received recently messed up the 3D on DirecTV HR24-500?????*
> 
> Thanks for anyone's help.


Already responded with an idea to your identical post here

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=187982


----------



## RAD

I have tried both HR24-200 and HR24-500 passed through a Denon AVR891 and both of them, running the latest software, both play the ESPN3D content, including the Globetrotters BB game.


----------



## Maleman

I just realized that on the last update they have fixed a bug!! I am very happy. Before when I switched onto a 3D channel I had to manually change my settings on my TV. Then when I switched back to HD channel I would have to change inputs or turn off and back on my tv to get HD picture. It seems like this has been all fixed.


----------



## rlgesch

Last update fixed my autoswitching to 3d as well. However, it seems like there is more shadowing than before. 3d quality not very good at all imo. hr23 box to onkyo receiver to samsung led tv.


----------



## Maleman

rlgesch said:


> Last update fixed my autoswitching to 3d as well. However, it seems like there is more shadowing than before. 3d quality not very good at all imo. hr23 box to onkyo receiver to samsung led tv.


My setup is similar  I don't watch 3D much at this point but I like to test it out when programming is available. Everything looked pretty good with bball game.
Great that autoswitching was fixed.

Happy Holidays to everyone.


----------



## taz291819

I can confirm that the Mits 73738 works just fine with the HR-22 without the need for the adapter, after the Mits firmware update of course. Directv needs to update their site to express this info.


----------



## Gotchaa

Gotchaa said:


> Okay I have another 3D pair issue to report. The JVC DILA RS50 is direct connected to the HR24, it does not see support for 720p/60 and 1080p/24 modes. There is clearly a problem with EDID.
> 
> I have a PS3 also directly connected (projector has 2 HDMI inputs). I let the PS3 auto detect and it correctly identified these modes. I was also able to playback 1080p/24 content on the PS3.
> 
> Switch to the HR24, and guess what, no luck. Today Xgames was broadcast on the 103, and I got the message that my display doesn't support 720p 3D mode!
> 
> What a bummer all this investment in high end gear and we're struggling with the basics here...help D* Engineering please!
> 
> I have a Panasonic VT25 that I am going to hook up next and test as well...


I am posting the following document which I hope the software engineers will review showing the issues with 3D mode on the JVC RS50 and HR24-500


----------



## w6fxj

I have a DirecTV HR21-100 feeding a Sony STR-DN2010 AVR via HDMI 1.4a cable and the Sony connected via HDMI 1.4a cable to a Sony KDL-42HX800 3D LCD TV. It throws up an "Resolution Not Supported" error about half the time. It will not pass ANY ESPN 3D programming on channel 106. 

If I reset the HR21 things will work about half the time but fail sooner or later. Things work fine if I connect the HDMI STR-N2010 input and output cables together with a Monoprice HDMI-female to female adapter. Looks like a compatibility problem between the HR21 and the STR-DN2010 AVR.


----------



## Gotchaa

I am back with a 3rd display test to share some issues with supported 3D formats. It appears the SC-37 is not passing EDID information thru when connected to the HR24-500 running 0x452 code.

A direct connection to the display, a Panasonic TC-P65VT25 shows that all 3D formats are supported as expected. Connecting thru the SC-37 results in only 1 mode, 1080i, which renders 720p and 1080p/24 SBS content unviewable on the DirecTV DVR as it thinks the display can't support the format which is not correct.

I am attaching a document which outlines the issue. I hope someone is following this thread because it is getting very frustrating. I am especially upset that DirecTV is also broadcasting 3D formats that were not mandatory as some displays have not implemented 720p and 1080p/24 SBS. This is just causing lots of agony and confusion right now amongst EAs who have spent $$$ upgrading for 3D support.


----------



## 996911

Here's my setup and problem:

D* Box-->HR21
Panel -->Panasonic TC-P65VT25
Receiver-->Integra 40.2

Setting for box is "native on"
Setting for panel is "auto"
Setting on receiver for HDMI is "through"

I am able to get almost all the 3D programming. I have watched the guitar sessions, safari, etc.. What does NOT work is the sports programming. For example, the ACC Football championship game. I get the error message "This 3D program is broadcast in 720p. Your TV does not support this resolution. (797)."

Prior to the latest HR21 software update a couple weeks ago I was not able to get ANY programming and the picture would show up on the panel as to mirrored side-by-side images. At least I get some programming now


----------



## RAD

996911 said:


> Here's my setup and problem:
> 
> D* Box-->HR21
> Panel -->Panasonic TC-P65VT25
> Receiver-->Integra 40.2
> 
> Setting for box is "native on"
> Setting for panel is "auto"
> Setting on receiver for HDMI is "through"
> 
> I am able to get almost all the 3D programming. I have watched the guitar sessions, safari, etc.. What does NOT work is the sports programming. For example, the ACC Football championship game. I get the error message "This 3D program is broadcast in 720p. Your TV does not support this resolution. (797)."


And what happens is you connect the HR21 directly to the TV, get the same problem?


----------



## 996911

If I go directly to the TV I can get the program. However, that is not an option. Do you think something on the HR21 is detecting the pass-through and stopping to feed???

Thanks Rad!


----------



## RAD

996911 said:


> If I go directly to the TV I can get the program. However, that is not an option. Do you think something on the HR21 is detecting the pass-through and stopping to feed???
> 
> Thanks Rad!


Actually I think you might be SOL unless you can get the receiver to fix the issue. DirecTV says that they'll only support a direct connection from a TV to the STB, not when a receiver is in the signal path.

When I was shopping for a new AVR I went through five different models before finding one that I was happy with. I tried two different Pioneers's, one being an Elite, and both of them didn't report back to the DirecTV receiver all the 3D resolutions that the TV supported.

I know it stinks but when AVR's get in the signal path and mess with things I don't think they're much that DirecTV can do about it. Sorry.


----------



## sigma1914

996911 said:


> If I go directly to the TV I can get the program. However, that is not an option. Do you think something on the HR21 is detecting the pass-through and stopping to feed???
> 
> Thanks Rad!


Why isn't it an option? Are you out of coax (3) & optical (2) audio inputs?


----------



## 996911

RAD said:


> Actually I think you might be SOL unless you can get the receiver to fix the issue. DirecTV says that they'll only support a direct connection from a TV to the STB, not when a receiver is in the signal path.
> 
> When I was shopping for a new AVR I went through five different models before finding one that I was happy with. I tried two different Pioneers's, one being an Elite, and both of them didn't report back to the DirecTV receiver all the 3D resolutions that the TV supported.
> 
> I know it stinks but when AVR's get in the signal path and mess with things I don't think they're much that DirecTV can do about it. Sorry.


I'm stumped since the Integra is set to "pass-through" as well the receiver has HDMI v1.4a (3D Support, Audio Return Channel). My guess is on the HR21 detecting something inaccurately. We'll see. I'm not too worked up since the 3D is in it's infancy.



sigma1914 said:


> Why isn't it an option? Are you out of coax (3) & optical (2) audio inputs?


It's a complete custom home theater with no access to the back of the panel without some labor for removal involved ($$$). Further, the newest input would need to be calibrated ($$$) as well as the RTI (custom remote system) would need re-programming ($$$) to adjust for all the changes. It's nice to be able to send the audio and video via HDMI to one source (AVR) for all my components audio and then just a single HDMI to the panel for video


----------



## taz291819

996911 said:


> I'm stumped since the Integra is set to "pass-through" as well the receiver has HDMI v1.4a (3D Support, Audio Return Channel). My guess is on the HR21 detecting something inaccurately. We'll see. I'm not too worked up since the 3D is in it's infancy.
> 
> It's a complete custom home theater with no access to the back of the panel without some labor for removal involved ($$$). Further, the newest input would need to be calibrated ($$$) as well as the RTI (custom remote system) would need re-programming ($$$) to adjust for all the changes. It's nice to be able to send the audio and video via HDMI to one source (AVR) for all my components audio and then just a single HDMI to the panel for video


My parents bought a HTIB for their Mits 73738, and the AVR that came with it works perfectly, passing through all signals just fine.

The HTIB was:
Onkyo HT-S5300

I believe the AVR is a rebadged version of this AVR:
Onkyo TXSR608

Or close to it anyway.


----------



## BlvJohn

Gotchaa said:


> I am back with a 3rd display test to share some issues with supported 3D formats. It appears the SC-37 is not passing EDID information thru when connected to the HR24-500 running 0x452 code.


It is my understanding that the same thing happens with several 1.4a AVRs including my Onkyo TX-SR608. Others have reported that firmware upgrades for other Onkyo AVRs have corrected the problem and that newer AVRs work OK (like post above). However, Onkyo has yet to release a firmware upgrade for the SR608. Also, Onkyo has not historically released firmware upgrades that have to be made through the optical port (like required for the SR608) to the public.

I think this issue could be addressed by DirecTV as well since the PS3 has no trouble recognizing all the VT25 supported 3D resolutions when the HDMI signal is passed through the AVR.


----------



## TBlazer07

Just to add to the discussion in case DirecTV is listening, my HR22-100, Onkyo HT-RC260 (same as the SR608) and Panasonic PX50VT25 will only recognize 3D in 1080i using the Onkyo "3D ready" HDMI connection. It says "720P is not supported" when I try watching a 720P 3D program and the Miscellaneous Options menu only shows 1080i as a supported resolution for 3D.

Also, when the Panasonic is in 3D mode the remote (tried 3 RC6x's and 2 Harmony's) become virtually non-responsive due to the I/R signal the Panny is outputting to the glasses. When it goes back to 2D mode the remote works fine.

Edit: My grandson just brought his PS3 over and the PS3 passing thru the same receiver recognizes all 3D resolutions. Gotta be a DirecTV issue. No great big deal because I intend on watching VERY little 3D but it still should work fine.


----------



## Gotchaa

TBlazer07 said:


> Just to add to the discussion in case DirecTV is listening, my HR22-100, Onkyo HT-RC260 (same as the SR608) and Panasonic PX50VT25 will only recognize 3D in 1080i using the Onkyo "3D ready" HDMI connection. It says "720P is not supported" when I try watching a 720P 3D program and the Miscellaneous Options menu only shows 1080i as a supported resolution for 3D.
> 
> Also, when the Panasonic is in 3D mode the remote (tried 3 RC6x's and 2 Harmony's) become virtually non-responsive due to the I/R signal the Panny is outputting to the glasses. When it goes back to 2D mode the remote works fine.
> 
> Edit: My grandson just brought his PS3 over and the PS3 passing thru the same receiver recognizes all 3D resolutions. Gotta be a DirecTV issue. No great big deal because I intend on watching VERY little 3D but it still should work fine.


This is further confirmation that there is a significant compatibility issue with 3D format support with all these DVRs.

It is very frustrating that many ppl with HT's cannot use their existing AVRs and even 3D ready AVRs some have even gone to the expense of upgrading to do switching of audio/video.

It's shortsighted for DTV to assume people will just direct connect their displays.

What is more disturbing is DTV also has choosen to use optional 3D formats like 720p/SBS and 1080p/24 which locks out folks whose display manufactures have only implemented the mandatory 3D formats as published by the HDMI 1.4a standards board.

While these DVR's don't need to be 1.4a compliant, as they don't have that chipset, it's bad news for plenty of folks right now looking to adopt 3D.


----------



## RAD

Gotchaa said:


> This is further confirmation that there is a significant compatibility issue with 3D format support with all these DVRs.
> 
> It is very frustrating that many ppl with HT's cannot use their existing AVRs and even 3D ready AVRs some have even gone to the expense of upgrading to do switching of audio/video.
> 
> It's shortsighted for DTV to assume people will just direct connect their displays.


Kind of can't blame DirecTV for taking that approach since the AVR can report incorrect information back to the STB. I think they've found out before that CE manufactures might implement HDMI hardware that might not follow standards to the letter.



Gotchaa said:


> What is more disturbing is DTV also has choosen to use optional 3D formats like 720p/SBS and 1080p/24 which locks out folks whose display manufactures have only implemented the mandatory 3D formats as published by the HDMI 1.4a standards board.


Maybe you'd be happier if DirecTV made you replace your STB's with a new model that supported what you want. For me I'm kind of happy that they found a way to make STB's that are out in the field already (except for the H20/HR20) support 3D with just a software upgrade.



Gotchaa said:


> While these DVR's don't need to be 1.4a compliant, as they don't have that chipset, it's bad news for plenty of folks right now looking to adopt 3D.


IMHO there's plenty of 3D HDTV's out there that DirecTV officially will support with their existing STB's. Heck I was able to use 3D with a 3 year old Mits DLP set by getting the Mits 3DC adapter. Looking for a new 3D all I did was check the DirecTV web site and got a set that was on the list.


----------



## TBlazer07

RAD said:


> IMHO there's plenty of 3D HDTV's out there that DirecTV officially will support with their existing STB's. Heck I was able to use 3D with a 3 year old Mits DLP set by getting the Mits 3DC adapter. Looking for a new 3D all I did was check the DirecTV web site and got a set that was on the list.


Well, my TV is a Panasonic VT25 which is directly supported by DirecTV according to their website (not withstanding the fact that Panasonic supposedly worked with DirecTV to implement 3D) and the minute I turn on 3D my I/R remote becomes useless and almost totally non-responsive. RF remote might help but my Harmony doesn't support RF and DirecTV doesn't say RF is required for 3D. As soon as I switch over to a reg channel the remote works fine.

That being said, I didn't get the TV for 3D, it just happened to have it, and after watching 3D for a while my personal opinion is it is a total waste of time. Watched a football came last night for a while and while the effects were "cute" but all the players looked like flat cardboard cutouts running in 3D down the field. :lol: Probably never use it again other then to show people what a gimmick it is when they ask.

The fact the I/R signal sent to the 3D glasses kills the remote is pretty surprising and very problematic. The problem with the HR22 only recognizing 1080i when going through the HDMI 1.4a Onkyo AVR (yet the Sony PS3 recognizes all the res through the AVR) at least has a workaround but points to a DirecTV issue and not an AVR issue.


----------



## TBlazer07

Gotchaa said:


> While these DVR's don't need to be 1.4a compliant, as they don't have that chipset, it's bad news for plenty of folks right now looking to adopt 3D.


Do you know of any AVR's in the same price range as the Onkyo 260 or 608 that will properly pass all the resolutions from the DVR? I REALLY prefer to use only a single cable to the TV. I still have a few weeks of "return time" on the AVR. How about the Denon AVR-591?


----------



## RAD

TBlazer07 said:


> Well, my TV is a Panasonic VT25 which is directly supported by DirecTV according to their website (not withstanding the fact that Panasonic supposedly worked with DirecTV to implement 3D) and the minute I turn on 3D my I/R remote becomes useless and almost totally non-responsive. RF remote might help but my Harmony doesn't support RF and DirecTV doesn't say RF is required for 3D. As soon as I switch over to a reg channel the remote works fine.
> 
> That being said, I didn't get the TV for 3D, it just happened to have it, and after watching 3D for a while my personal opinion is it is a total waste of time. Watched a football came last night for a while and while the effects were "cute" but all the players looked like flat cardboard cutouts running in 3D down the field. :lol: Probably never use it again other then to show people what a gimmick it is when they ask.
> 
> The fact the I/R signal sent to the 3D glasses kills the remote is pretty surprising and very problematic. The problem with the HR22 only recognizing 1080i when going through the HDMI 1.4a Onkyo AVR (yet the Sony PS3 recognizes all the res through the AVR) at least has a workaround but points to a DirecTV issue and not an AVR issue.


When you switch to 3D content does the brightness of your set increase to make up for the loss caused by the glasses? If yes, that might be what's causing your problem since plasma sets have been know to cause issues with IR remotes, an old Sony I had cause me tons of problems with IR remotes.


----------



## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> Kind of can't blame DirecTV for taking that approach since the AVR can report incorrect information back to the STB. I think they've found out before that CE manufactures might implement HDMI hardware that might not follow standards to the letter.


DirecTV has a track record of poor software implementation with HDMI standards, specifically EDID support when it comes to other manufacturers products, this is the reason why their support is trained to state they only support a direct connection from the DVR to the display device. I've already proven with a JVC device, they can't even get the EDID info without a repeater in the mix. It's not entirely their problem, but they are doing nothing to work with manufacturers to correct the basics.



RAD said:


> Maybe you'd be happier if DirecTV made you replace your STB's with a new model that supported what you want. For me I'm kind of happy that they found a way to make STB's that are out in the field already (except for the H20/HR20) support 3D with just a software upgrade.


Actually I would  If this would gurantee HDMI 1.4a specification compliance and correct implementation of EDID info. This isn't Dish, if I wanted a substanard cheap Satellite solution, I'd go with Dish ( not intended to offend Dish owners). If cable can get it right, there is no excuse for DirecTV not too. I've owned every damn $1k+ HD box back to the DTC-100, so I've been supporting their upgrades for years.

Yes it's nice they were able to save bandwidth and money, and upgrade headaches for their customers by choosing not to stick to the broadcast standards for 3D, but give the customers that want to upgrade to a new box an option too, just like we had an option for Tivo (where is that service promised for 2+ years now).



RAD said:


> IMHO there's plenty of 3D HDTV's out there that DirecTV officially will support with their existing STB's. Heck I was able to use 3D with a 3 year old Mits DLP set by getting the Mits 3DC adapter. Looking for a new 3D all I did was check the DirecTV web site and got a set that was on the list


That's great, and I am glad that they do support 3D that is backwards compatible for some. But it's not up to the standards I expect for paying a premium for their service. In my case the VT25, and Panasonic for that matter is supported and is on their list, yet they will claim it must be direct attached. That's ridiculous, they need to work to correct these issues, imho


----------



## Gotchaa

TBlazer07 said:


> Do you know of any AVR's in the same price range as the Onkyo 260 or 608 that will properly pass all the resolutions from the DVR? I REALLY prefer to use only a single cable to the TV. I still have a few weeks of "return time" on the AVR. How about the Denon AVR-591?


I'll keep my eye open, but I do not know. May want to check AVSforum threads for the Denon. Again, I would not return an AVR based on what does/doesn't work with DirecTV's current firmware. If they can fix it, I hope they will, just report what isn't working right now. I would also recommend contacting Onkyo to inform them, you have to hit it from both sides if there is any hope of them working to isolate the issues.

To put things in perspective, 3D is new, so there are going to be growing pains, but the issue I have is D* insists on devices on their list must be directly connected to the DVR.


----------



## RAD

Gotchaa said:


> DirecTV has a track record of poor software implementation with HDMI standards, specifically EDID support when it comes to other manufacturers products, this is the reason why their support is trained to state they only support a direct connection from the DVR to the display device. I've already proven with a JVC device, they can't even get the EDID info without a repeater in the mix. It's not entirely their problem, but they are doing nothing to work with manufacturers to correct the basics.


In practice, how many manufactures do spend the time/money to work on interconnection problems between devices? Have you gone to JVC to see if they'll work with DirecTV to resolve the issue? Don't know about your bad track record comment, I have 7 HD STB's connected via HDMI and all working fine.



Gotchaa said:


> Actually I would  If this would gurantee HDMI 1.4a specification compliance and correct implementation of EDID info. This isn't Dish, if I wanted a substanard cheap Satellite solution, I'd go with Dish ( not intended to offend Dish owners). If cable can get it right, there is no excuse for DirecTV not too. I've owned every damn $1k+ HD box back to the DTC-100, so I've been supporting their upgrades for years.


Maybe they have a box in the works that will do that (no knowledge of that happening or not). IMHO I think they did the right thing for now to roll out software which allowed their existing hardware base (except the HR20/H20) to work with 3D sets. No need to go with the expense of development for a new TV standard which would have a small customer base in the beginning. I'd guess they're spending more of their time/money on the HMC30/RVU products which would probably have a large appeal to their customers.



Gotchaa said:


> Yes it's nice they were able to save bandwidth and money, and upgrade headaches for their customers by choosing not to stick to the broadcast standards for 3D, but give the customers that want to upgrade to a new box an option too, just like we had an option for Tivo (where is that service promised for 2+ years now).


Isn't side-by-side a 3D standard. What standard are they violating?

That's great, and I am glad that they do support 3D that is backwards compatible for some. But it's not up to the standards I expect for paying a premium for their service. In my case the VT25, and Panasonic for that matter is supported and is on their list, yet they will claim it must be direct attached. That's ridiculous, they need to work to correct these issues, imho [/QUOTE]


----------



## jonesron

RAD said:


> ....Isn't side-by-side a 3D standard. What standard are they violating?
> 
> That's great, and I am glad that they do support 3D that is backwards compatible for some. But it's not up to the standards I expect for paying a premium for their service. In my case the VT25, and Panasonic for that matter is supported and is on their list, yet they will claim it must be direct attached. That's ridiculous, they need to work to correct these issues, imho


[/QUOTE]

1080i side-by-side is in the HDMI 1.4 standard and is a required format that must be supported by any 3DTV certified with HDMI 1.4 inputs. But 720p side-by-side is only an optional format (along with perhaps a dozen or two of other optional formats such as the 1080p checkboard format used by some DLP rear projectors) and any source device (such as a satellite receiver) is required by the HDMI 1.4a standard to support output in at least one of the required formats and it is the manufacturer's choice if they also want to support one or more of the optional formats. ESPN 3D and Directv are transmiting some sports programming only in this optional 720p side-by-side format for which some of the new 3DTVs that have HDMI 1.4a certified inputs cannot support. I don't know if all of the blame goes to ESPN for using an just an optional format, but Directv could and should add processing at their head end facility to convert all of the 3D programming they offer to one of the required formats, such as 1080i side-by-side or even 720p top/bottom both of which are compatible with the current Directv HD DVRs.


----------



## RAD

jonesron said:


> 1080i side-by-side is in the HDMI 1.4 standard and is a required format that must be supported by any 3DTV certified with HDMI 1.4 inputs. But 720p side-by-side is only an optional format (along with perhaps a dozen or two of other optional formats such as the 1080p checkboard format used by some DLP rear projectors) and any source device (such as a satellite receiver) is required by the HDMI 1.4a standard to support output in at least one of the required formats and it is the manufacturer's choice if they also want to support one or more of the optional formats. * ESPN 3D and Directv are transmiting some sports programming only in this optional 720p side-by-side format for which some of the new 3DTVs that have HDMI 1.4a certified inputs cannot support. I don't know if all of the blame goes to ESPN for using an just an optional format, but Directv could and should add processing at their head end facility to convert all of the 3D programming they offer to one of the required formats, such as 1080i side-by-side or even 720p top/bottom both of which are compatible with the current Directv HD DVRs.*


IMHO you can't expect DirecTV to change the resolution of the programming being provide to them. I can hear it now if they did from the folks that want progressive scanning for sports programming if DirecTV converted it to interlaced.

What are the other providers doing? I know TWC and Comcast provide ESPN 3D on some systems are they doing this conversion that you think should be done?


----------



## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> IMHO you can't expect DirecTV to change the resolution of the programming being provide to them. I can hear it now if they did from the folks that want progressive scanning for sports programming if DirecTV converted it to interlaced.
> 
> What are the other providers doing? I know TWC and Comcast provide ESPN 3D on some systems are they doing this conversion that you think should be done?


Of course they can  They have encoders that change the resolution and bandwidth for every single channel you watch on DirecTV right now. The question is why are they broadcasting and optional format.


----------



## RAD

Gotchaa said:


> Of course they can  They have encoders that change the resolution and bandwidth for every single channel you watch on DirecTV right now. The question is why are they broadcasting and optional format.


While they MAY be messing with the horizontal resolution they aren't with the vertical and not changing progressive scan to interlace.

As for your optional question, call ESPN and complain to them, they're the folks originating the signal.


----------



## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> In practice, how many manufactures do spend the time/money to work on interconnection problems between devices? Have you gone to JVC to see if they'll work with DirecTV to resolve the issue? Don't know about your bad track record comment, I have 7 HD STB's connected via HDMI and all working fine.


It's not all DirecTV's fault, but they are not making an effort to even get the correct information. JVC is aware of the issue already, so is Pioneer for the repeater issue with the Panasonic VT25, question is what is DirecTV doing?

Telling there customers connect your display directly if it's on our supported device list, don't use an AVR, and we're going to broadcast optional 3D formats because it saves us bandwidth and $, nice...


----------



## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> While they MAY be messing with the horizontal resolution they aren't with the vertical and not changing progressive scan to interlace.
> 
> As for your optional question, call ESPN and complain to them, they're the folks originating the signal.


If you have information that ESPN is sending their signal over in 720p SBS instead of Top/Bottom, please share and I will do just that


----------



## RAD

Gotchaa said:


> It's not all DirecTV's fault, but they are not making an effort to even get the correct information. JVC is aware of the issue already, so is Pioneer for the repeater issue with the Panasonic VT25, question is what is DirecTV doing?


Who knows, maybe nothing, maybe they're in the lab working on it. If you follow the CE program he you know things get reported and sometimes we get software that fixes something, sometimes not. DirecTV may look at this and say based on the customer base with this problem, compared to others, it's not a high priority.



Gotchaa said:


> Telling there customers connect your display directly if it's on our supported device list, don't use an AVR, and we're going to broadcast optional 3D formats because it saves us bandwidth and $, nice...


At least they are telling folks here's what we know is working and we'll support. If the customer gets a set not listed, or inserts other hardware in the signal path, that's their decision. At least they're providing the info so the customer can make an informed decision.

As for saving bandwidth, of course they're going to do what they can to conserve, satellites are expensive. As for saving money, I guess they could do what you are proposing and charge $10/month for ESPN 3D, like Time Warner is doing, for me I'm sort of happy that they're providing all this 3D content as part of what we're already paying in our package.


----------



## RAD

Gotchaa said:


> If you have information that ESPN is sending their signal over in 720p SBS instead of Top/Bottom, please share and I will do just that


Do you have information say they don't?


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## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> Who knows, maybe nothing, maybe they're in the lab working on it. If you follow the CE program he you know things get reported and sometimes we get software that fixes something, sometimes not. DirecTV may look at this and say based on the customer base with this problem, compared to others, it's not a high priority.
> 
> At least they are telling folks here's what we know is working and we'll support. If the customer gets a set not listed, or inserts other hardware in the signal path, that's their decision. At least they're providing the info so the customer can make an informed decision.
> 
> As for saving bandwidth, of course they're going to do what they can to conserve, satellites are expensive. As for saving money, I guess they could do what you are proposing and charge $10/month for ESPN 3D, like Time Warner is doing, for me I'm sort of happy that they're providing all this 3D content as part of what we're already paying in our package.


We are going to start a new term for DirecTV's broacast choices for 3d, "3D-Lite"

Bringing these issues to this thread is for the purpose of DirecTV addressing them, let's hope they do.

It is absolutely ridiculous to expect people to not use an AVR, especially when some have upgraded to 3D compatible receivers for the purposes for switching audio/video from 3D sources.

While I am happy they have 3D content, I am frustrated, I am frustrated for all the folks that jump in after early adopters hoping they don't have the same issues

So let's work it out now DTV!


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## sigma1914

I understand reporting incompatibility with AVRs, but I don't feel getting all worked up & doing a bunch of trial stuff is worth it. HDMI to TV with optical or coax to the AVR is so simple. I prefer separate HDMI for TV & BluRay so each can use separate settings with each input.


----------



## RAD

Gotchaa said:


> We are going to start a new term for DirecTV's broacast choices for 3d, "3D-Lite"
> 
> Bringing these issues to this thread is for the purpose of DirecTV addressing them, let's hope they do.
> 
> It is absolutely ridiculous to expect people to not use an AVR, especially when some have upgraded to 3D compatible receivers for the purposes for switching audio/video from 3D sources.
> 
> While I am happy they have 3D content, I am frustrated, I am frustrated for all the folks that jump in after early adopters hoping they don't have the same issues
> 
> So let's work it out now DTV!


I agree about the AVR comment, but when you introduce a piece of hardware in the signal path that can, and does, process the data stream anything can happen.

When I went looking for a new AVR I tried a number that said they were HDMI 1.4 and 3D compatible. A couple of them did something that cause the HR24 to say that my TV couldn't do 720p, which it can. But other receivers said that it could, so who's fault is it DirecTV's or the AVR's manufacture for the problem? Do you expect DirecTV to go out and purchase/test every AVR out there that says they're HDMI 1.4/3D, if yes expect the bills to be going up even more.

Is there a testing lab that all these CE folks need to submit their products to for a certification that they actually to follow all standards that they advertise? Maybe that's what is needed to help the consumer?


----------



## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> I agree about the AVR comment, but when you introduce a piece of hardware in the signal path that can, and does, process the data stream anything can happen.
> 
> When I went looking for a new AVR I tried a number that said they were HDMI 1.4 and 3D compatible. A couple of them did something that cause the HR24 to say that my TV couldn't do 720p, which it can. But other receivers said that it could, so who's fault is it DirecTV's or the AVR's manufacture for the problem? Do you expect DirecTV to go out and purchase/test every AVR out there that says they're HDMI 1.4/3D, if yes expect the bills to be going up even more.
> 
> Is there a testing lab that all these CE folks need to submit their products to for a certification that they actually to follow all standards that they advertise? Maybe that's what is needed to help the consumer?


Again, it's not just DirecTV's problem, it's a two way street, information has to be shared and standards have to be followed. Following standards and sharing EDID info for devices is the responsibility of all CE manufacturers, if the standards were followed by CEM's we wouldn't be having this debate. If DTV choose to only broadcast mandatory 3D formats, we wouldn't be having this debate. I have nothing more to say on this topic, other than fix it please DTV!


----------



## TBlazer07

RAD said:


> When you switch to 3D content does the brightness of your set increase to make up for the loss caused by the glasses? If yes, that might be what's causing your problem since plasma sets have been know to cause issues with IR remotes, an old Sony I had cause me tons of problems with IR remotes.


Didn't notice because the glasses were on  and didn't watch long enough but I can turn the brightness way up without problem using 2D. Besides, this is supposedly a 2010 "top of the line" Panasonic 3D TV from the company who helped DirecTV design 3D. It shouldn't happen. It's more than likely the I/R signal transmitted FROM the TV *to* the glasses causing the problem.


----------



## TBlazer07

Just FWIW, I went over to BestBuy and picked up a Denon AVR-591 and it passes all the 3D resolutions just fine (as does another users Samsung AVR) to the HR22-100 DVR so it seems to be an Oinkeyo problem. Oinkeyo went back to Amazon and Denon is in it's place. Too bad, I liked the menu system much better on that AVR. 

The Remote / 3D issue continues.


----------



## Go Beavs

TBlazer07 said:


> Didn't notice because the glasses were on  and didn't watch long enough but I can turn the brightness way up without problem using 2D. Besides, this is supposedly a 2010 "top of the line" Panasonic 3D TV from the company who helped DirecTV design 3D. It shouldn't happen. It's more than likely the I/R signal transmitted FROM the TV *to* the glasses causing the problem.


I can confirm this issue. I set my Pansaonic VT25 to a 3D channel and my HR22 was almost unresponsive to the D* remote. I turned off the 3D glasses setting in the display's menu (still leaving the display showing a 3D image) and the remote functioned normally.

I now use RF as a work-around.


----------



## TBlazer07

Go Beavs said:


> I can confirm this issue. I set my Pansaonic VT25 to a 3D channel and my HR22 was almost unresponsive to the D* remote. I turned off the 3D glasses setting in the display's menu (still leaving the display showing a 3D image) and the remote functioned normally.
> 
> I now use RF as a work-around.


 I wish I could use RF but I am controlling 4 devices and using a Harmony remote which is I/R only. It REALLY is a dumb design and I can't believe it wasn't taken under consideration. This would affect anyone using any I/R STB.


----------



## Gotchaa

TBlazer07 said:


> I wish I could use RF but I am controlling 4 devices and using a Harmony remote which is I/R only. It REALLY is a dumb design and I can't believe it wasn't taken under consideration. This would affect anyone using any I/R STB.


Harmony has RF adapters, depending on your model.


----------



## TBlazer07

Gotchaa said:


> Harmony has RF adapters, depending on your model.


 Not for the ones I use and from what I rememer, their RF models aren't directly compatible with DirecTV receivers. They still use I/R to control the receiver via a Dongle receiver that is RF.


----------



## Gotchaa

sigma1914 said:


> I understand reporting incompatibility with AVRs, but I don't feel getting all worked up & doing a bunch of trial stuff is worth it. HDMI to TV with optical or coax to the AVR is so simple. I prefer separate HDMI for TV & BluRay so each can use separate settings with each input.


This method does not work for those feeding two displays as the DVRs have 1 HDMI output. Also it requires more cables to your display for each source device. Again the point of AVRs for most is to switch audio/video source devices to 1 or more display device that could be in different zones.

In your case you get audio and pure video path, wish I could do this.


----------



## Gotchaa

TBlazer07 said:


> Not for the ones I use and from what I remeber, their RF models aren't directly compatible with DirecTV receivers. They still use I/R to control the receiver via a Dongle receiver that is RF.


So what is the problem, all universal RF remotes blast IR to the devices, that is what the receiver is for and the emitters with those IR diodes you put in front of you components. What model Harmony do you have?


----------



## TBlazer07

Gotchaa said:


> So what is the problem, all universal RF remotes blast IR to the devices, that is what the receiver is for and the emitters with those IR diodes you put in front of you components. What model Harmony do you have?


The problem is there is no RF adapter for the Harmony One and 720.  If there was one I wouldn't get it because all the wires are U-G-L-Y in my open cabinet anyway. That being said I wouldn't get it if they made it because:

A) Why should I pay to fix a DirecTV or Panasonic problem?
B) I have no intention of watching any 3D except to show it to friends to see how cool it is NOT. 

All I have is left is 1 pr glasses that came with the set (I have the 2 "free" pr from the "Avatar" Kit up for sale here and on eBay) and I just sold the free Avatar 3D DVD that came with the kit for $140 on eBay. :eek2:


----------



## jonesron

Directv and ESPN are creating 3D compatiblity issues by using what is essentially a "non-standard" 3D format. Many and perhaps all ESPN 3D programs are now being distributed in 720p side-by-side format. While this is an optional 3D format in the HDMI 1.4a specification, that spec. also requires that if an optional format is offered by a 3D source device then at least one of the mandatory 3D also be provided. Cablelabs, the cable industry standards and certification group, issued an updated "Content Encoding Profiles 3.0 Specification" in August where the only allowed 720p 3D format is the top-and-bottom format (and not the side-by-side format). Note that the 720p top-and-bottom format is also a mandatory format for 3D displays in the HDMI 1.4a spec. Thus the bottom line is while some 3DTVs do support the optional 720p side-by-side format, no 3DTV is requried to support this format and some 3DTVs (including some high-end home theater projectors) do not. Also ESPN should not be distrbuting any programming in 720p side-by-side format since cable TV companys are not supposed to distribute 3D programming in this format nor do all HDMI 1.4a certified 3DTVs support this format. So ESPN and Directv get with it and provide ESPN 3D in a standard 3D format, i.e., either 1080i side-by-side or 720p top-and-bottom format that all HDMI 1.4a equipped 3DTVs must support, and not use the ad hoc format you are currently using.

*
UPDATE (1/8/2011)- ESPN has confirmed that they are transmitting the ESPN 3D channel in both 720p top/bottom and 720p side-by-side formats and it's up to the cable TV or satellite company to use whichever version they want. We need to convince Directv to start using 720p top/bottom format since all HDMI 1.4 equipped 3DTVs are required to be compatible with that 3D format while only some 3DTVs support the optional 720p side-by-side format that Directv is currently using to distribute ESPN 3D.*


----------



## orbeavhawk

I am using a Samsung LED DLP which requires the Adapter in line in order for me to receive the 3D programs offered on DTV.....FINE! So, not long ago I recorded about 5 of there freebie offerings. Went to watch one yesterday and much to my surprise they will NOT play - are NOT seen as 3D by the adapter [I guess]. Thus - I cannot "turn ON" the Sammy's 3D Mode.

Is there anything that I can do to be able to watch these or do I just have to delete them off my DVR?

TKS michael


----------



## taz291819

orbeavhawk said:


> I am using a Samsung LED DLP which requires the Adapter in line in order for me to receive the 3D programs offered on DTV.....FINE! So, not long ago I recorded about 5 of there freebie offerings. Went to watch one yesterday and much to my surprise they will NOT play - are NOT seen as 3D by the adapter [I guess]. Thus - I cannot "turn ON" the Sammy's 3D Mode.
> 
> Is there anything that I can do to be able to watch these or do I just have to delete them off my DVR?
> 
> TKS michael


Does the adapter work while viewing 3D channels live?


----------



## orbeavhawk

taz291819 said:


> Does the adapter work while viewing 3D channels live?


YES! 
I figured out the "problem" and once again - it was ME! I am NEW to this Adapter setup and forgot about that little remote that came with it.....tried again, remembering to try it out, and sure enough as I changed Modes with it, the Adapter "lit up" meaning it was receiving 3D, then I could Turn 3D on on the Sammy and was inn Checkerboard format.

TKS


----------



## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> Do you have information say they don't?


ESPN provides 720p TaB and SBS, it's up to the broadcaster to decide what format to use. In this case, DirecTV has decided to use an optional 3D format essentially causing issues for numerous displays, and AVR's from various manufacturers.

Bad for customer satisfaction.


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## Gotchaa

jonesron said:


> Directv and ESPN are creating 3D compatiblity issues by using what is essentially a "non-standard" 3D format. Many and perhaps all ESPN 3D programs are now being distributed in 720p side-by-side format. While this is an optional 3D format in the HDMI 1.4a specification, that spec. also requires that if an optional format is offered by a 3D source device then at least one of the mandatory 3D also be provided. Cablelabs, the cable industry standards and certification group, issued an updated "Content Encoding Profiles 3.0 Specification" in August where the only allowed 720p 3D format is the top-and-bottom format (and not the side-by-side format). Note that the 720p top-and-bottom format is also a mandatory format for 3D displays in the HDMI 1.4a spec. Thus the bottom line is while some 3DTVs do support the optional 720p side-by-side format, no 3DTV is requried to support this format and some 3DTVs (including some high-end home theater projectors) do not. Also ESPN should not be distrbuting any programming in 720p side-by-side format since cable TV companys are not supposed to distribute 3D programming in this format nor do all HDMI 1.4a certified 3DTVs support this format. So ESPN and Directv get with it and provide ESPN 3D in a standard 3D format, i.e., either 1080i side-by-side or 720p top-and-bottom format that all HDMI 1.4a equipped 3DTVs must support, and not use the ad hoc format you are currently using.
> 
> *
> UPDATE (1/8/2011)- ESPN has confirmed that they are transmitting the ESPN 3D channel in both 720p top/bottom and 720p side-by-side formats and it's up to the cable TV or satellite company to use whichever version they want. We need to convince Directv to start using 720p top/bottom format since all HDMI 1.4 equipped 3DTVs are required to be compatible with that 3D format while only some 3DTVs support the optional 720p side-by-side format that Directv is currently using to distribute ESPN 3D.*


+1

Furthermore, I spoke with Sony, JVC, and Pioneer, all are aware of the issues with Directv DVR's and are frustrated that even mandatory formats are having issues as has been reported. Very bad news for those hoping to watch 3D when they buy their new displays/ and or receivers.


----------



## geaux tigers

orbeavhawk said:


> I am using a Samsung LED DLP which requires the Adapter in line in order for me to receive the 3D programs offered on DTV.....FINE! So, not long ago I recorded about 5 of there freebie offerings. Went to watch one yesterday and much to my surprise they will NOT play - are NOT seen as 3D by the adapter [I guess]. Thus - I cannot "turn ON" the Sammy's 3D Mode.
> 
> Is there anything that I can do to be able to watch these or do I just have to delete them off my DVR?
> 
> TKS michael


I have a Samsung 3D ready DLP myself and am able to enjoy DirecTvs 3D broadcasts. You can probably find the answers to your questions here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1265912


----------



## mjm76

I am very upset that I can not watch the BCS championship game in 3D due to getting a message that my TV does not support 720P 3D. I have a Pioneer 1020 AVR and a Panasonic 65 inch 3D TV that both support 3D.

DirecTV and ESPN 3D need to get their act together so people can actually watch 3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## RAD

mjm76 said:


> I am very upset that I can not watch the BCS championship game in 3D due to getting a message that my TV does not support 720P 3D. I have a Pioneer 1020 AVR and a Panasonic 65 inch 3D TV that both support 3D.
> 
> DirecTV and ESPN 3D need to get their act together so people can actually watch 3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you're running the signal through your AVR try removing it from the signal path and go directly from the DIRECTV receiver to the TV and see if that works. If still no go try to reboot the receiver with it connected like that so during boot up it can determine which resolutions your TV supports.


----------



## TBlazer07

mjm76 said:


> I am very upset that I can not watch the BCS championship game in 3D due to getting a message that my TV does not support 720P 3D. I have a Pioneer 1020 AVR and a Panasonic 65 inch 3D TV that both support 3D.
> 
> DirecTV and ESPN 3D need to get their act together so people can actually watch 3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I had the same problem. Fortunately was within my 30 days for return and replaced my AVR with a Denon AVR-591 and all resolutions are now properly passed. Seems the problem is the AVR because half the brands work and half do not. If DirecTV was screwing up I would think none of them would work in 720P. In any case if you connect DIRECTLY to the TV from the DirecTV box using HDMI and TOSLINK to the AVR it will work.


----------



## itzme

mjm76 said:


> I am very upset that I can not watch the BCS championship game in 3D due to getting a message that my TV does not support 720P 3D. I have a Pioneer 1020 AVR and a Panasonic 65 inch 3D TV that both support 3D.
> 
> DirecTV and ESPN 3D need to get their act together so people can actually watch 3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Same problem here! I have the Samsung c8000 and the Pioneer 1020k was added at Christmas. I could record and play all 3D before I patched everything through the Pioneer. I can still play and watch most DirectTV 3D content, except for what seems to be ESPN or sports. RAD's re-patching solution just isn't feasible given how hard it is to re-patch just for 1 monor issue and separating the audio/video causes other issues.

I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone post a *workaround?* Something about going to another 720p channel? I tried to fiddle with that during the BCS game but I'm not sure I found another 720p channel. Can anyone elaborate on the workaround?


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## I WANT MORE

Had people over last night to watch the game in 3d. Would not work. Too much hassle to reroute cables. Pissed. 
That pretty much sums it up.


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## RAD

itzme said:


> Same problem here! I have the Samsung c8000 and the Pioneer 1020k was added at Christmas. I could record and play all 3D before I patched everything through the Pioneer. I can still play and watch most DirectTV 3D content, except for what seems to be ESPN or sports. RAD's re-patching solution just isn't feasible given how hard it is to re-patch just for 1 monor issue and separating the audio/video causes other issues.
> 
> I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone post a *workaround?* Something about going to another 720p channel? I tried to fiddle with that during the BCS game but I'm not sure I found another 720p channel. Can anyone elaborate on the workaround?


How about installing a HDMI A/B switch where one output goes to your Pioneer and the other directly to your TV and then just press a button when you want ESPN.

I tried that same Pioneer, also a Pioneer Elite and it also caused the same problem, HR24 said the only 3D resolutions supported were 1080, pull it out and 720 is back.


----------



## itzme

RAD said:


> How about installing a HDMI A/B switch where one output goes to your Pioneer and the other directly to your TV and then just press a button when you want ESPN.
> 
> I tried that same Pioneer, also a Pioneer Elite and it also caused the same problem, HR24 said the only 3D resolutions supported were 1080, pull it out and 720 is back.


I just may try that if I need to. I also found that post I was looking for from a few months ago. When I find the time I need to test this workaround, too:

DVR model and firmware: HR24/500, 0x405
[HDTV > Native is set to Off; all resolutions are enabled; current resolution is 1080i]
TV model and firmware: Samsung PN58C8000, T-VALAUSC-1021.2
AVR model and firmware: Pioneer VSX-1020-K
[Video Parameter > RES is set to PURE]
glasses model: Samsung SSG-2200AR
Why it's not working correctly:
Channel 103 n3D can only be successfully tuned to when the previous channel tuned was in 1080i; otherwise an attempt to tune to 103 gets only a black screen with this message: "This 3D program is broadcast in [previous resolution]. Your 3D TV does not support this resolution. (797)", where [previous resolution] is the resolution of the previous channel tuned. For instance, if I tune first to 206 ESPNHD, then I tune to 103, the message will say that this 3D program is broadcast in 720p (which of course is not true). If I tune first to any SD channel before changing to 103, the message will say that this 3D program is broadcast in 480i (which is silly). Also, if I am tuned to a 1080i HD channel, but I have the TV's 2d->3d conversion turned on, video is also blocked with the above message, which now says the 3D program is broadcast in 720p.

Comment: This problem is easy to work around: just remember to tune to a 1080i channel (and turn off 2d->3d conversion) before trying channel 103 (or trying to play a 3D recording, which works the same way).​


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## I WANT MORE

^^^^^No longer works^^^^^^


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## itzme

I WANT MORE said:


> ^^^^^No longer works^^^^^^


So there are no easy known workarounds for those of us with Pioneer AVRs like mine?

Sounds like I might have to try adding an HDMI switch.


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## RAD

itzme, I have a Samsung PN50C8000 directly connected to a HR24-500 and I have no issues with ESPN 3D or the other 3D channels if that helps (except for getting the bloody HR24 to to a schedule recording of ESPN 3D progamming).


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## I WANT MORE

Hopefully D* will fix it in the next firmware update. Other than that I don't have any answers.


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## itzme

RAD said:


> itzme, I have a Samsung PN50C8000 directly connected to a HR24-500 and I have no issues with ESPN 3D or the other 3D channels if that helps (except for getting the bloody HR24 to to a schedule recording of ESPN 3D progamming).


I certainly believe you because I just got the Pioneer AVR over Christmas. 3D Recordings I made before then, like the Globetrotters, worked fine until I ran all my devices through the new Pioneer. Now they show the 720p message and won't play. Same with last night's BCS bowl. The problem seems to be with most or all ch106 ESPN programs, since all my ch103 content seems to play fine. But the AVR has made such a incredible difference in audio (over my old Panny SA-HE100). I don't want to get rid of the Pioneer. *So I'm determined to find a workaround.*

I'm glad to hear you had trouble getting things to record also (and presumably to stay in your to-do list, too). I thought I was going senile with that issue.


----------



## RAD

itzeme, couldn't you just run TOSLINK/coax from the DirecTV receiver to the Pioneer for the audio and the HDMI to the TV directly? There is really no difference between running TOSLINK/coax vs. HDMI for audio from the DirecTV STB since the best it can do is DD5.1 which TOSLINK/coax can handle just fine.


----------



## itzme

Rad, to be honest I'm not sure if doing that would compromise my audio or not. The Pioneer VSC-1020k AVR does claim to have all sorts of audio formats (3d included???) via HDMI. I also think it (either then Pioneer or the HDMI method) fixed some lip sync issues I was having with my old sound system using Toslink. I'll tell you what it _would_ compromise for sure, the programming of my universal remotes. I program two cheap UR7 Gamer remotes to do pretty much everything. I program 2 because we have 2 TV watchers in this house and we both require control . It's been a pleasure to use HDMI, with video and audio switching in synch. So that's a reason I'd really want to avoid the Toslink approach as a fix. I'll try the HDMI switch before that, because I have one that I got for Christmas in a box, and because recording ESPN 3 is sort of a rare event anyway. Also, I think this issue needs to get to DTV's attention. Maybe there's a firmware fix.


----------



## Gotchaa

RAD said:


> How about installing a HDMI A/B switch where one output goes to your Pioneer and the other directly to your TV and then just press a button when you want ESPN.
> 
> I tried that same Pioneer, also a Pioneer Elite and it also caused the same problem, HR24 said the only 3D resolutions supported were 1080, pull it out and 720 is back.





itzme said:


> Same problem here! I have the Samsung c8000 and the Pioneer 1020k was added at Christmas. I could record and play all 3D before I patched everything through the Pioneer. I can still play and watch most DirectTV 3D content, except for what seems to be ESPN or sports. RAD's re-patching solution just isn't feasible given how hard it is to re-patch just for 1 monor issue and separating the audio/video causes other issues.
> 
> I can't seem to find it, but didn't someone post a *workaround?* Something about going to another 720p channel? I tried to fiddle with that during the BCS game but I'm not sure I found another 720p channel. Can anyone elaborate on the workaround?





TBlazer07 said:


> I had the same problem. Fortunately was within my 30 days for return and replaced my AVR with a Denon AVR-591 and all resolutions are now properly passed. Seems the problem is the AVR because half the brands work and half do not. If DirecTV was screwing up I would think none of them would work in 720P. In any case if you connect DIRECTLY to the TV from the DirecTV box using HDMI and TOSLINK to the AVR it will work.





itzme said:


> So there are no easy known workarounds for those of us with Pioneer AVRs like mine?
> 
> Sounds like I might have to try adding an HDMI switch.


Folks this has been reported to Pioneer. I spent some time at CES with one of their product managers discussing the issue. First thing you should do is open a case with Pioneer Support. If they don't have ppl reporting this to them, it's difficult to commit engineering resources to work with Directv to correct the issues. He said there has been no commitment by Pioneer to test or issue a firmware update to correct this because they feel it's DirecTV's issue as they are supporting optional 3D formats. Technically they should work fine with the AVRs, and I brought up that Denon's don't have the problem.

I shared the report I posted in this thread and he agreed to forward the information to see if engineering resources will be able to test and work with DirecTV, but at this point it looks like if DirecTV is going to be a primary source for 3D content, you will have issues switching through their AVRs unless they both decide to work together to address these issues.

Welcome to the bleeding edge EA's 

I will take these posts and forward them to him as well.


----------



## itzme

Gotchaa said:


> Folks this has been reported to Pioneer. I spent some time at CES with one of their product managers discussing the issue. First thing you should do is open a case with Pioneer Support. If they don't have ppl reporting this to them, it's difficult to commit engineering resources to work with Directv to correct the issues. He said there has been no commitment by Pioneer to test or issue a firmware update to correct this because they feel it's DirecTV's issue as they are supporting optional 3D formats. Technically they should work fine with the AVRs, and I brought up that Denon's don't have the problem.
> 
> I shared the report I posted in this thread and he agreed to forward the information to see if engineering resources will be able to test and work with DirecTV, but at this point it looks like if DirecTV is going to be a primary source for 3D content, you will have issues switching through their AVRs unless they both decide to work together to address these issues.
> 
> Welcome to the bleeding edge EA's
> 
> I will take these posts and forward them to him as well.


Thanks, Gotchaa, good info. I reported the issue today through Pioneer's horrible sight let me register, but then didn't recognize my log in. I had to use their Contact Us form to report the issue. I'm not sure that opened a case. Do you know of a better place?


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## DCSholtis

I have the Samsung UN40C7000 and also have problems with ESPN 3D. When there is programming on I have trouble getting the channel on. Most times I usually get the D* 3D Splash screen and ESPN3D programming will only come on once I reboot my HR24-500. When I first hooked the TV and box up I had no problems at all. For me something happened within the last few updates.


----------



## itzme

DCSholtis said:


> I have the Samsung UN40C7000 and also have problems with ESPN 3D. When there is programming on I have trouble getting the channel on. Most times I usually get the D* 3D Splash screen and ESPN3D programming will only come on once I reboot my HR24-500. When I first hooked the TV and box up I had no problems at all. For me something happened within the last few updates.


Is your HDMI hooked up directly or through an AVR. My problems started with HDMI going through my Pioneer AVR. Also, do you happen to have any ESPN3D content recorded. Can you see if it gives you the error message when you go to play it, and then see if it works after a re-boot. I tried that and while I do see a quick flash of the video, it then goes into the error message (your TV cannot play 720p...).


----------



## Gotchaa

itzme said:


> Thanks, Gotchaa, good info. I reported the issue today through Pioneer's horrible sight let me register, but then didn't recognize my log in. I had to use their Contact Us form to report the issue. I'm not sure that opened a case. Do you know of a better place?


If you don't get a case incident response, the quickest way is to call them, it may be painful so make sure you have time as the tech may request you troubleshoot with them first: 1-800-421-1404


----------



## RAD

DCSholtis said:


> I have the Samsung UN40C7000 and also have problems with ESPN 3D. When there is programming on I have trouble getting the channel on. Most times I usually get the D* 3D Splash screen and ESPN3D programming will only come on once I reboot my HR24-500. When I first hooked the TV and box up I had no problems at all. For me something happened within the last few updates.


IMHO that's some other issue then the problem folks have with gettng the resolution not supported on ESPN. That sounds like your HR24-500 isn't picking up the proper transponder for when DIRECTV fires up the part time ESPN3D channel. I'd recommend calling DIRECTV the next time that happens and get them to look into the issue for you.


----------



## DCSholtis

RAD said:


> IMHO that's some other issue then the problem folks have with gettng the resolution not supported on ESPN. That sounds like your HR24-500 isn't picking up the proper transponder for when DIRECTV fires up the part time ESPN3D channel. I'd recommend calling DIRECTV the next time that happens and get them to look into the issue for you.


Will definately do that. Thanks!


----------



## itzme

Gotchaa said:


> If you don't get a case incident response, the quickest way is to call them, it may be painful so make sure you have time as the tech may request you troubleshoot with them first: 1-800-421-1404


I didn't get a report number but I got this reply. I'm not 100% sure but I think I put in HDMI 1.4 cables. Should I check. Any validity here?

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.

The problem is a result of the HDMI version that is being used in the Direct TV box. Based on the specifications of HDMI 3D video can only be supported via HDMI V1.4. However Direct TV's box is currently using HDMI V1.3 which is why the receiver is not capable of passing that 3D signal.

Thank You,

Gill
Customer Service Representative​
My Question to them was:

When I don't wire my DirecTV Reciever (model HR24-100) through my VSX-1020-k I receiver DirecTV's ESPN 3D channel #106 just fine. But when I use HDMI through the AVR I get a DirecTV error message on the TV screen that reads "This 3D program is broadcast in 720p [or previous resolution channel]. Your 3D TV does not support this resolution. (797)" My TV (Samsung PN58c8000) does support it the the DTV reciever has all resolutions checked. Changing the Res on the Pionner doesn't fix anything either.

This issue is all over the internet (example http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2681593#post2681593). Other brands and model AVRs work fine with ESPN 3D. Your model works on all 3D channels fine also, except their channel 106. Do you have any plans to work with DirecTV to fix this issue with your VSX-1020-k?


----------



## RAD

I didn't think that HDMI 1.4 was a requirement for 3D, but could be wrong. Guess I'm lucky then that my two PS3's which also aren't 1.4 work fine for 3D along wity my HR24-500 and HR24-200.


----------



## FHSPSU67

DirecTV 3D is supposed to require HDMI 1.4a.


----------



## RAD

FHSPSU67 said:


> DirecTV 3D is supposed to require HDMI 1.4a.


Why, their receivers aren't 1.4a, that wasn't even a spec when they came out with the HR21 which can do 3D.


----------



## itzme

re: HMDI Keep in mind that all of this with this issue get all the 3D except for ESPN 3D and I'm pretty that the cables we bought last month _are_ HDMI V1.4, though I'll need to confirm that.


----------



## RAD

itzme said:


> re: HMDI Keep in mind that all of this with this issue get all the 3D except for ESPN 3D and I'm pretty that the cables we bought last month _are_ HDMI V1.4, though I'll need to confirm that.


From what I've seen on DIRECTV documentation you don't need HDMI 1.4 and you don't need high speed cables. Basically it said if you can watch 1080p/24 programming then the cables are alright. The exact quote is:


> HDMI Cable Category 1 & 2 will pass 3D video from the DIRECTV receiver to the compliant and tested 3D TV. Current DIRECTV HDMI cables are 3D compatible.


----------



## Gotchaa

itzme said:


> I didn't get a report number but I got this reply. I'm not 100% sure but I think I put in HDMI 1.4 cables. Should I check. Any validity here?
> 
> Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
> 
> The problem is a result of the HDMI version that is being used in the Direct TV box. Based on the specifications of HDMI 3D video can only be supported via HDMI V1.4. However Direct TV's box is currently using HDMI V1.3 which is why the receiver is not capable of passing that 3D signal.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Gill
> Customer Service Representative​
> My Question to them was:
> 
> When I don't wire my DirecTV Reciever (model HR24-100) through my VSX-1020-k I receiver DirecTV's ESPN 3D channel #106 just fine. But when I use HDMI through the AVR I get a DirecTV error message on the TV screen that reads "This 3D program is broadcast in 720p [or previous resolution channel]. Your 3D TV does not support this resolution. (797)" My TV (Samsung PN58c8000) does support it the the DTV reciever has all resolutions checked. Changing the Res on the Pionner doesn't fix anything either.
> 
> This issue is all over the internet (example http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2681593#post2681593). Other brands and model AVRs work fine with ESPN 3D. Your model works on all 3D channels fine also, except their channel 106. Do you have any plans to work with DirecTV to fix this issue with your VSX-1020-k?


Gill is wrong, 3D formats can be passed over HDMI 1.3, their simply is not and specification or requirment for 3D under 1.3, which is why DirecTV can choose to use the formats that allow them to save bandwidth and not force hardware upgrades to DVRs out in the field, a good compromise for customers. However as a result of this strategy there are incompatabilities with devices that are 1.4a HDMI certified that call for specifc mandatory formats. The 720p SbS is an optional format for 3D. ESPN send 720p Top and Bottom and Side by Side to broadcasters. Directv choose to use SbS which seems to have issues with some displays and AVRs.



RAD said:


> I didn't think that HDMI 1.4 was a requirement for 3D, but could be wrong. Guess I'm lucky then that my two PS3's which also aren't 1.4 work fine for 3D along wity my HR24-500 and HR24-200.


HDMI 1.4a specifies mandatory formats for 3D, that does not mean 1.3 cannot support it, there just is no specification for 3D in the 1.3 specification. The bandwidth is available.



FHSPSU67 said:


> DirecTV 3D is supposed to require HDMI 1.4a.


Nope they are using 3D formats that work with their bandwidth on existing DVR hardware, none of which is HDMI 1.4a. Their next gen DVR's will likely have 1.4a.



RAD said:


> Why, their receivers aren't 1.4a, that wasn't even a spec when they came out with the HR21 which can do 3D.


Yes this is correct, no spec for 1.4a.

@24bit, the maximum resolution for HDMI 1.0-1.2:
1920×1200p60 (3.96Gb/s)

HDMI 1.3 
2560×1600p75 (10.2Gb/s)

HDMI 1.4
4096×2160p24 (10.2Gb/s)



itzme said:


> re: HMDI Keep in mind that all of this with this issue get all the 3D except for ESPN 3D and I'm pretty that the cables we bought last month _are_ HDMI V1.4, though I'll need to confirm that.


Not entirely true, there are projectors and some displays and AVRs that are HDMI 1.4 compliant that only see 1080i coming thru the DVRs as a supported 3D format.



RAD said:


> From what I've seen on DIRECTV documentation you don't need HDMI 1.4 and you don't need high speed cables. Basically it said if you can watch 1080p/24 programming then the cables are alright. The exact quote is:


This is correct. HDMI 1.3/1.4 all use HDMI high speed cables, HDMI.org moved away from using cables with specifications revision numbers.

HDMI 1.3 devices are cabpable of supporting the resolution and bandwidth necessary for 3D formats.

1.4a 3D formats that are mandatory are:
Frame Packing: 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24
Side-by-Side horizontal: 1080i50 or 1080i60 
Top-and-Bottom: either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24

Note that 720p Side by Side is the format ESPN 3D is re-broadcasted in by DirecTV, which is not a mandatory 3D format. Technically DirecTV does not have to use Top/Bottom because they don't have 1.4a DVRs, and there are reasons why they choose this format.

This is an issue with some displays, like for example the JVC projectors that are HDMI 1.4a compliant. They choose to support only the mandatory formats, so they will never be able to view 720pSbS content unless they can issue a firmware update or DirecTV decided to change the format to top and bottom.

The other issue is some AVRs are not seeing all the available 3D formats, even through they may be able to pass them onto a display that does support it. The problem here is likely EDID data is not being recognized properly because you have an HDMI 1.3 box trying to talk to a 1.4a box. What is actually going on with these devices and the Directv DVR's is unknown to us at this time. It could be as simple as DirecTV updating code to send EDID info, or it could be the display devices or AVRs also needing to update their code.

The problem is since the AVRs and display devices are 1.4a compliant, they (CE Manufacturers) can issue canned responses to their customers (like [email protected]) complaining about DirecTV DVR compatabiltity all day by stating the 1.3 HDMI DVR is not 3D compatible (wrong). Technically since 3D formats are not in the 1.3 specification they have a valid point of not needing to spend engineering resources to be compatible for a DirecTV's DVRs which are technically sending 3D signals without needing to adhere to any of the 1.4a specifications for mandatory and optional 3D formats.

Is this good customer service considering DirecTV is one of the largest 3D broadcast content redistributers in the US market right now? No, but unless people complain or make alternative purchase decisions it's not going to matter.

Now it seems that DirecTV is in the best position to fix these problems via software updates if they work with CE manufacturues, and we're hoping they are paying attention to this thread.

I would pay attention to the Cutting Edge forums here and look at the release notes to see if they are adding any 3D device compatability to their pre-release software. Short of that, we'll just have to wait and hope or buy a device that is known to work.

There is some good high-level info here for those that are curious about 3D formats and decisions made.


----------



## TBlazer07

It seems the problem I was having with the Panasonic 3D TV IR output to the 3D glasses killing the IR DirecTV remote has gone away with a new HR24-100 as it's replacement (it replaced an HR22).

Wonder what the difference is between the 2 considering I used the same remotes (both the DirecTV remote and a Harmony 700) for both boxes.


----------



## jonesron

We know that the 3D 720p side-by-side format being used by Directv to distribute ESPN 3D is not supported by some 3DTVs and is not a required format by the HDMI 1.4a standard. ESPN distributes their 3D programming in both 720p top/bottom and 720p side-by-side formats and Directv chose to use the one that is this not required to be supported by 3DTVs. Futher Directv has disabled for 3D programs the feature of their HD receivers and DVRs to upscale 720p to 1080i. However, recent tests have shown that through a fairly complex process that it is possible to fool the HD-DVRs (on at least certain of the HD-DVR models) to go into a mode where the ESPN 3D 720p side-by-side program is being upscaled by the Directv HD-DVR to a 1080i side-by-side format (which is a required 3D format in the HDMI 1.4a standard). This process and the results have be duplicated by other Directv users. 3DTVs that cannot handle the 720p side-by-side format have been shown to be correctly work with this upscaled 1080i side-by-side signal. My equipment is a JVC DLA-RS40 projector (3D-ready with HDMI 1.4a inputs, supports all required 3D formats but does not support the optional 3D 720p side-by-side format) and a Directv HR-22 HD-DVR.

*SO A REQUEST TO DIRECTV IF YOU INSIST ON USING THE 3D 720P SIDE-BY-SIDE FORMAT - - PLEASE PROVIDE A FIRMWARE UPDATE TO ENABLE 720P-TO-1080i UPSCALING FOR 3D PROGRAMS BEING DISTRIBUTED BY DIRECTV IN 720P FORMAT. *


----------



## itzme

jonesron, others have posted that your workaround no longer works. Maybe its a function of the receiver model. Mine is an HR24-100. Could I ask you to list the specific steps to take to try to fool the HD-DVRs. Maybe reference some airing 3D recordings as an example. I have several recorded (that work). But for example I VOD'd the BCS championship, which trigger the 720p support message and won't play.


----------



## paul91

Does anybody have the Samsung PN50C490 3d TV and get it to work with the Directv 3D channels?


----------



## jonesron

itzme said:


> jonesron, others have posted that your workaround no longer works. Maybe its a function of the receiver model. Mine is an HR24-100. Could I ask you to list the specific steps to take to try to fool the HD-DVRs. Maybe reference some airing 3D recordings as an example. I have several recorded (that work). But for example I VOD'd the BCS championship, which trigger the 720p support message and won't play.


Below is a direct copy and paste from Darin over on the AVS forum for how he got it to work with his HDMI 1.3 equipped AVR and JVC RS40, which is a 3D ready projector that supports only the 3D formats required by the HDMI 1.4a standard and does not support the optional 720p side-by-side format that is being used by Directv to distribute ESPN 3D:

"I have an RS40 and had it hooked up through a receiver that is a couple of years old (pre 1.4). I tried playing the football game that is currently on ESPN3D and got an error that my display wasn't 3D. So I disconnected the HDMI cable coming out of my audio receiver and plugged it straight into an HR22. Then I watched a little bit of the football in 3D without even thinking about any resolution issues. The 3D seemed to be working fine, although I didn't test it for long. I then switched over to a Jessica Simpson 3D show I had recorded earlier and watched it for a few minutes (much of it looked like it was 2D without the glasses on and then the image separation would come in and go away sometimes). I switched back to the football game and was surprised to get an error that my display doesn't support 720p 3D (or maybe it said 720p SBS) and I got no picture.

So, I started again with the football game going through the receiver and got back to the error about my display not being 3D. When I moved the HDMI cable to go straight from the HR22 to the RS40 I again got to watch the game in 3D. I noticed that a message came up saying the signal was 1080i SBS and I believe this message was from the RS40. And the light on the HR22 for res said 1080i. Going to the Jessica Simpson concert and then back again resulted in not being able to watch the game, but instead getting the error about not supporting 720p. And pushing the res button on the HR22 did nothing (the light stayed on 1080i)."​
And here is one of the first follow-up posts from another AVS Forum member:

"Followed Darin's steps, recv'd the "doesn't support 3D", pulled the HDMI2 going to my Denon receiver, connected PJ direct cable, switched immediately to HDMI1 (different than Darin's steps as he used one cable and I left my receiver=>PJ HDMI2 intact). A picture on ch. 103nD appeared playing a Guitar Center Uplugged session but it was not in 3D until I hit 'Info' key on DTV receiver and the banner went away, and Viola! . . . 3D Magic."​
Since Darin made his first post a couple of weeks ago a few other AVS forum members have had some success using his approachk or variations, to get their Directv HD-DVRs to go into a mode where it is upscaling ESPN 3D to 1080i side-by-side. However, I don't recall seeing any reports on this from a user specifically saying they were using a HR24.

*The reason for my original post was not to provide a work around. Rather it is to demonstrate at least some of the Directv STV/DVRs are technically capable of upscaling the 3D 720 side-by-side signals to 1080i side-by-side but for some reason Directv has decided to disable this capability when a 3D signal is being broadcast. From the point of view of the upscaling the 720p side-by-side signal is identical to a standard 720p 2D video. This crazy decision by Directv is preventing quite a few Directv customers from being able to view ESPN 3D on their new 3DTVs and I am requesting that Directv issue a firmware update to enable this upscaling or to broadcast all of their 3D programming in one of official (i.e., mandatory) formats defined by the HDMI 1.4a (which all 3DTV claiming HDMI 1.4 support must conform to).*


----------



## Gotchaa

jonesron said:


> *The reason for my original post was not to provide a work around. Rather it is to demonstrate at least some of the Directv STV/DVRs are technically capable of upscaling the 3D 720 side-by-side signals to 1080i side-by-side but for some reason Directv has decided to disable this capability when a 3D signal is being broadcast. From the point of view of the upscaling the 720p side-by-side signal is identical to a standard 720p 2D video. This crazy decision by Directv is preventing quite a few Directv customers from being able to view ESPN 3D on their new 3DTVs and I am requesting that Directv issue a firmware update to enable this upscaling or to broadcast all of their 3D programming in one of official (i.e., mandatory) formats defined by the HDMI 1.4a (which all 3DTV claiming HDMI 1.4 support must conform to).*


If this is the only solution DirecTV could offer, I would suggest there is a menu option specifically for 720p-SBS upscaling outside of the standard Native/Resolution support options.


----------



## Gotchaa

itzme said:


> I didn't get a report number but I got this reply. I'm not 100% sure but I think I put in HDMI 1.4 cables. Should I check. Any validity here?
> 
> Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
> 
> The problem is a result of the HDMI version that is being used in the Direct TV box. Based on the specifications of HDMI 3D video can only be supported via HDMI V1.4. However Direct TV's box is currently using HDMI V1.3 which is why the receiver is not capable of passing that 3D signal.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Gill
> Customer Service Representative​
> My Question to them was:
> 
> When I don't wire my DirecTV Reciever (model HR24-100) through my VSX-1020-k I receiver DirecTV's ESPN 3D channel #106 just fine. But when I use HDMI through the AVR I get a DirecTV error message on the TV screen that reads "This 3D program is broadcast in 720p [or previous resolution channel]. Your 3D TV does not support this resolution. (797)" My TV (Samsung PN58c8000) does support it the the DTV reciever has all resolutions checked. Changing the Res on the Pionner doesn't fix anything either.
> 
> This issue is all over the internet (example http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2681593#post2681593). Other brands and model AVRs work fine with ESPN 3D. Your model works on all 3D channels fine also, except their channel 106. Do you have any plans to work with DirecTV to fix this issue with your VSX-1020-k?


Some bad news for Pioneer AVR users with HDMI 1.4:

-There will not be a firmware update from Pioneer to fix issues with DirecTV DVR
-Pioneer states DirecTV is not working with them
-Pioneer is focusing on Spring release, in which they state all their receivers will work with existing DirecTV box

-Bottom line they are not going to pull engineering resources off a new product release cycle to fix an issue they feel is DirecTV's making.

I am sure DirecTV engineers feel the same way :nono2:

End Result=Consumer screwed again


----------



## itzme

Gotchaa said:


> Some bad news for Pioneer AVR users with HDMI 1.4:
> 
> -There will not be a firmware update from Pioneer to fix issues with DirecTV DVR
> -Pioneer states DirecTV is not working with them
> -Pioneer is focusing on Spring release, in which they state all their receivers will work with existing DirecTV box
> 
> -Bottom line they are not going to pull engineering resources off a new product release cycle to fix an issue they feel is DirecTV's making.
> 
> I am sure DirecTV engineers feel the same way :nono2:
> 
> End Result=Consumer screwed again


Uhm, I'd feel better if someone from DirecTV can confirm they aren't planning a fix. I don't doubt you, but I do doubt that Directv wouldn't want to fix my ability to buy a 3D PPV movie from them, and stay with them as a customer for their 3D content.


----------



## Gotchaa

itzme said:


> Uhm, I'd feel better if someone from DirecTV can confirm they aren't planning a fix. I don't doubt you, but I do doubt that Directv wouldn't want to fix my ability to buy a 3D PPV movie from them, and stay with them as a customer for their 3D content.


Pioneer has no plans of issuing any firmware update, that doesn't mean DirecTV cannot work to fix the issue. It's apparently not a concern for DirecTV because their response is plug you DVR directly into your TV and run optical to your receiver.


----------



## taz291819

Gotchaa said:


> Some bad news for Pioneer AVR users with HDMI 1.4:
> 
> -There will not be a firmware update from Pioneer to fix issues with DirecTV DVR
> -Pioneer states DirecTV is not working with them
> -Pioneer is focusing on Spring release, in which they state all their receivers will work with existing DirecTV box
> 
> -Bottom line they are not going to pull engineering resources off a new product release cycle to fix an issue they feel is DirecTV's making.
> 
> I am sure DirecTV engineers feel the same way :nono2:
> 
> End Result=Consumer screwed again


Wait, that doesn't make any sense, them blaming Directv I mean. If their Spring releases are going to work 100%, then they already know how to make it work, and could fix the other AVRs.


----------



## Gotchaa

taz291819 said:


> Wait, that doesn't make any sense, them blaming Directv I mean. If their Spring releases are going to work 100%, then they already know how to make it work, and could fix the other AVRs.


That is probably a correct statement, but Pioneer engineers are currently focused on new AVR release, they are not willing to have them spend time chasing down DirecTV. It's not just DirecTV's fault, there is no initiative of either CEM to work this out.

I don't know the details of what is changing in the new models, but I believe if it was a simple fix on the current they would just do it, doesn't sound like it is without replicating/fixing/testing/releasing, not a day's work...

Also keep in mind the updates to their AVRs in the past have been very costly in service centers, not sure if all the AVRs now can just be updated by owners. Pioneer is a feature/first to market/volume dealer...their pricing and service reflects this for better or worse.


----------



## itzme

There is no mention in the Pioneer VSX-1020-k manual or on the internet of a firmware upgrade feature by the user. I see a mention of the their service center doing it. So a Pioneer upgrade is moot. I think we're at the mercy of DirecTV to give us a firmware upgrade. I wonder what all would be involved, and I'd love to help them test it.


----------



## nogascans

I have an issue with a new projector.

Sony Projector: VPL-VW90ES

DirecTV Receiver: HR23-700 software 0x452

Direct HDMI connection from DirecTV receiver to projector.

initially worked, but now on n3D I get error code 797, this program is broadcast in 3D. Your display does not support 720p.

on the ESPN3D channel, I get the same 797.

Projector shows correct 720p source input on info, but only blue display page of DirecTV channel with error code.

Also, just to try, I recorded a VOD movies SOS earth, ad it plays back fine in 3D??? Any ideas?

Greg


----------



## Raddle

I am having trouble viewing some 3D shows, including some I previously recorded and watched. I get any of three different error messages: "Your TV does not support 1080p/24," "Your TV does not support 720p" or "Your TV does not support this program's content protection."

My set-up:

DirecTV DVR -> VSX-32 -> Samsung PN63C8000

I spoke with DirecTV and we made sure the output is set to "Native" and all the resoultions are checked.


----------



## RAD

Raddle said:


> I am having trouble viewing some 3D shows, including some I previously recorded and watched. I get any of three different error messages: "Your TV does not support 1080p/24," "Your TV does not support 720p" or "Your TV does not support this program's content protection."
> 
> My set-up:
> 
> DirecTV DVR -> VSX-32 -> Samsung PN63C8000
> 
> I spoke with DirecTV and we made sure the output is set to "Native" and all the resoultions are checked.


Remove the VSX-32 from the signal path will probably fix that problem. I tried to different Pioneers, including a VSX-32, and it tells the DIRECTV receiver that it can only support 1080i.


----------



## itzme

Raddle said:


> I am having trouble viewing some 3D shows, including some I previously recorded and watched. I get any of three different error messages: "Your TV does not support 1080p/24," "Your TV does not support 720p" or "Your TV does not support this program's content protection."
> 
> My set-up:
> 
> DirecTV DVR -> VSX-32 -> Samsung PN63C8000
> 
> I spoke with DirecTV and we made sure the output is set to "Native" and all the resoultions are checked.


I've also have a Pioneer AVR and Samsung PN58c8000 and have that same problem with ESPN 3D and now with DirecTV PPV 3D. It seems the culprit is a compatibility issue with DirecTV and Pioneer. Reports are in this thread (above), and also over here and actually all over the internet.

Setting to "Native" doesn't fix anything for me. I stay abreast of these threads and this issue and there is some reason to believe that DirecTV could fix this problem with a firmware upgrade. I'm referring to this post.

Others suggest we should run HDMI directly from our DTV receiver to the TV, then run an optical cable to our AVR. RAD suggests hooking up an HDMI switch. These are not very practical solutions for me given how I've programmed all my remotes on how to easily change devices, and that there are way too many cables and devices behind my rack already. _You would think _that since the issue now prevents us from buying the $6.99 3D PPVs, that DirecTV would have an interest in fixing the problem. That's my only hope since there's no function to upgrade firmware in my Pioneer.

Maybe someone in the know at DirecTV could give us an indication about this as far as being a known issue and whether there is any chance that an upcoming firmware update might be coming?


----------



## Raddle

Running another HDMI cable plus an optical to the TV is not practical for me. My cables run inside the walls. I'm not going through that again. I don't think we can count on Pioneer to fix it. I hope DTV makes it work.


----------



## itzme

Raddle said:


> Running another HDMI cable plus an optical to the TV is not practical for me. My cables run inside the walls. I'm not going through that again. I don't think we can count on Pioneer to fix it. I hope DTV makes it work.


RAD, we do appreciation your workaround solution, and that may be helpful for some. But I share Raddle's concerns. For many of us, and for many numerous reasons, it just isn't a practical solution.

That said, let's say I opt for the 'HDMI switch solution' so that I leave my current setup as is, AND devise a direct connect/audio optical to AVR solution. I would use a Rosewill RME-416E3 that I have in the closet. I have some questions about that:

1) Will the introduction of the switch affect picture quality at all? How?
2) If I attach an optical cable from the HR to the Pioneer, how does that affect the audio via the HDMI? Does the HR output the audio simultaneously both by HDMI and Optical?
3) The switch has CEC functions. What is that and how might it affect things?

Thanks!


----------



## RAD

itzme said:


> RAD, we do appreciation your workaround solution, and that may be helpful for some. But I share Raddle's concerns. For many of us, and for many numerous reasons, it just isn't a practical solution.
> 
> That said, let's say I opt for the 'HDMI switch solution' so that I leave my current setup as is, AND devise a direct connect/audio optical to AVR solution. I would use a Rosewill RME-416E3 that I have in the closet. I have some questions about that:
> 
> 1) Will the introduction of the switch affect picture quality at all? How?
> 2) If I attach an optical cable from the HR to the Pioneer, how does that affect the audio via the HDMI? Does the HR output the audio simultaneously both by HDMI and Optical?
> 3) The switch has CEC functions. What is that and how might it affect things?
> 
> Thanks!


#1 - It shouldn't, since it's digital it should either work or not. 
#2 - Audio won't be effected at all, both HDMI and optical/coax outputs are active. Since DD5.1 is the highest audio the DIRECTV receiver will put out you won't miss anything by going optical/coax.
#3 - Sorry, don't know that one.


----------



## Raddle

I filled out a trouble form at DirecTV. I spent some time in the DTV forums. There are a lot of posts in there about this problem. Most claim DirecTV has chosen to send optional formats which some AVRs and projectors can't handle. It appears DirecTV could fix the problem by sticking only with mandatory formats, Alternatively, Pioneer could support optional formats. Based on Pioneer's history, I know they very rarely release firmware upgrades.


----------



## itzme

Raddle said:


> I filled out a trouble form at DirecTV. I spent some time in the DTV forums. There are a lot of posts in there about this problem. Most claim DirecTV has chosen to send optional formats which some AVRs and projectors can't handle. It appears DirecTV could fix the problem by sticking only with mandatory formats, Alternatively, Pioneer could support optional formats. Based on Pioneer's history, I know they very rarely release firmware upgrades.


The Pioneer option seems moot, since there is no way for the consumer to do the upgrade. I'm at DirecTV's mercy. Did DTV get back to you on the trouble form. Where can I access a trouble form?

Thanks!


----------



## I WANT MORE

IMO It is D*'s issue to fix. They are the ones that chose to change the method by which they distribute 3d from ESPN. It worked fine for me before they changed their distribution method. I have a HR24-500, Pioneer AVR, and Panny VT25.


----------



## Gotchaa

itzme said:


> The Pioneer option seems moot, since there is no way for the consumer to do the upgrade. I'm at DirecTV's mercy. Did DTV get back to you on the trouble form. Where can I access a trouble form?
> 
> Thanks!


Sure there is a way to upgrade the firmware, it's only moot because Pioneer has decided not to work on it for 2010 receivers. 2011 year models should be compatible.


----------



## Gotchaa

I WANT MORE said:


> IMO It is D*'s issue to fix. They are the ones that chose to change the method by which they distribute 3d from ESPN. It worked fine for me before they changed their distribution method. I have a HR24-500, Pioneer AVR, and Panny VT25.


My guess is D* will fix it with a HDMI 1.4a DVR they release, other than that we'll just have to wait..


----------



## itzme

Gotchaa said:


> My guess is D* will fix it with a HDMI 1.4a DVR they release, other than that we'll just have to wait..


Are you saying D* won't (or can't) fix it with a software update? Does the fix have to be with a new DVR?


----------



## Gotchaa

itzme said:


> Are you saying D* won't (or can't) fix it with a software update? Does the fix have to be with a new DVR?


Only D* can answer that, but I am not holding my breath, there is new software being released this evening on cutting edge we'll see if there are any 3D support issues resolved, last couple did not...


----------



## Raddle

itzme said:


> The Pioneer option seems moot, since there is no way for the consumer to do the upgrade. I'm at DirecTV's mercy. Did DTV get back to you on the trouble form. Where can I access a trouble form?
> 
> Thanks!


I submitted an issue support.directv.com/app/ask.

Attached is my exchange with DirecTV on this problem. The two most important quotes from DirecTV are below:

"I have verified that your TV supports the 3D channels, however, please make sure that the receiver is connected directly using HDMI cables to your 3DTV and is not being run through other devices such as a Blu-Ray or A/V receiver."

"I have forwarded your suggestion regarding the format in which we broadcast 3D on to DIRECTV Management for review."


----------



## itzme

Raddle said:


> I submitted an issue support.directv.com/app.ask.
> 
> Attached is my exchange with DirecTV on this problem. The two most important quotes from DirecTV are below:
> 
> "I have verified that your TV supports the 3D channels, however, please make sure that the receiver is connected directly using HDMI cables to your 3DTV and is not being run through other devices such as a Blu-Ray or A/V receiver."
> 
> "I have forwarded your suggestion regarding the format in which we broadcast 3D on to DIRECTV Management for review."


Raddle, thank you so much for sharing that exchange! I'm going to make an effort to open a support issue also. I feel dumb but I can't find where on the site to start an issue. I see you mentioned support.directv.com/app.ask but I can't get to that or find the right link to that. Do you remember how to get there?


----------



## Raddle

itzme said:


> Raddle, thank you so much for sharing that exchange! I'm going to make an effort to open a support issue also. I feel dumb but I can't find where on the site to start an issue. I see you mentioned support.directv.com/app.ask but I can't get to that or find the right link to that. Do you remember how to get there?


Sorry, I had a typo in the address. I don't have enough posts to include the hyperlink but I corrected it in my post above.


----------



## itzme

To clarify the link that Raddle used to report his 3D issue is http://support.directv.com/app/ask

I logged into DirecTV first, but I'm not sure that's required. Thanks again, Raddle! Keep us posted if you hear or learn anything more on the matter.


----------



## I WANT MORE

Here is the response that I received.

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN 3D

Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Aubrey S. - 100126090) - 02/08/2011 03:53 PM
Dear Mr. Dumbledorf ,

Thanks for taking the time to write us.

I understand how you feel about resolving the issue with your access to ESPN 3D.

Any proposed new equipment or enhancements to current equipment are subject to change until a formal announcement is made, so I don't have any information that I can share with you right now. I have, however, forwarded your email on to our management so that they can have a record of your request.

You may find some helpful information at the DIRECTV Technical Help forums where other customers share solutions to many DIRECTV receiver and entertainment system related questions. Just visit http://forums.directv.com/pe/index.jsp to learn more.

You can also call our technical support center at 1-888-667-7463 (please select the option for technical assistance).

Thanks again for writing. We are sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you and are most appreciative of your cooperation and understanding in this matter.

Sincerely,

Aubrey S.
Employee ID 100126090
DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## Raddle

I notified Pioneer of the problem. Here is my correspondence. I would feel more confident if the text in boldface came from DirecTV rather than Pioneer.

Sent February 8, 2011 at 11:15 PST

DirecTV broadcasts some 3D shows in 720p Side-by-Side format which is an optional format 3D format for broadcasters. My VSX-32 apparently does not support this format. The result is I am unable to play these shows on my Samsung PN63C8000 TV. My understanding is that this format is optional for broadcasters but mandatory for receivers and TVs. Will Pioneer upgrade the firmware to correct this?

Received Wed 2/9/2011 2:13 PM PST

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc. The receiver fully supports the 3D signals. The signal Direct TV is transmitting is not compliant to the HDMI Organization specifications. *We are told they will have this resolved in the first quarter*. Please contact Direct TV for full details.

Thank You,

Rocky

Customer Service Representative


----------



## Gotchaa

Raddle said:


> I notified Pioneer of the problem. Here is my correspondence. I would feel more confident if the text in boldface came from DirecTV rather than Pioneer.
> 
> Sent February 8, 2011 at 11:15 PST
> 
> DirecTV broadcasts some 3D shows in 720p Side-by-Side format which is an optional format 3D format for broadcasters. My VSX-32 apparently does not support this format. The result is I am unable to play these shows on my Samsung PN63C8000 TV. My understanding is that this format is optional for broadcasters but mandatory for receivers and TVs. Will Pioneer upgrade the firmware to correct this?
> 
> Received Wed 2/9/2011 2:13 PM PST
> 
> Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc. The receiver fully supports the 3D signals. The signal Direct TV is transmitting is not compliant to the HDMI Organization specifications. *We are told they will have this resolved in the first quarter*. Please contact Direct TV for full details.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Rocky
> 
> Customer Service Representative


Lol, I know this guy, check PM, I emailed my response to him.


----------



## itzme

Gotchaa said:


> Lol, I know this guy, check PM, I emailed my response to him.


Not being privy to the PM, is there any reason not to believe the Pioneer rep about DirecTV having a fix before April? I know for one I'd love someone from DirectTV to tell us they are aware of the issue, and ideally 'working on a fix.'


----------



## Gotchaa

itzme said:


> Not being privy to the PM, is there any reason not to believe the Pioneer rep about DirecTV having a fix before April? I know for one I'd love someone from DirectTV to tell us they are aware of the issue, and ideally 'working on a fix.'


Wait and see, it depends on how important 3D from DirecTV is for you. I wanted an AVR that worked out of the box, that supported both mandatory and optional 3D formats, similar to most displays. Unfortunately there was no plans from Pioneer Corp doing anything for 2010 AVR line so I decided for me it was best to cut the cord after 20yrs and try a different CEM.

2011's should work fine though, but it will not be until 2012 that the Elite line is refreshed so I wasn't willing to wait hence the Denon purchase...


----------



## Vette1992

NR4P said:


> Directv site shows Sony LX900 series as compatible.
> Anyone try the NX810 series by Sony?
> Works? Doesn't work?


3D works great! 55" NX810


----------



## Dan B

I can not get DirecTV's 3D to work when going through my Denon AVR 3311CI to my Panasonic TC-P50GT25 television. (both are 2010 models) I'm getting a message that my receiver does not support 3D. It is 3D compliant though, and in fact 3D is working from my PS3 through the Denon. I tried a red button reset & changing settings as recommended in this thread, but no luck so far.


----------



## RAD

What model DIRECTV receiver do you have, if it's a HR20 or H20 those models don't support 3D. The message should have a phone number and/or code (I forget which) and when you call DIRECTV tell them the code and they're supposed to swap the receiver for free (but new 2 yr commitment). 

If it's not a HR20/H20 have you directed the HDMI cable directly to the TV, bypassing the Denon, to make sure that at least is working properly?


----------



## Dan B

Oh, my bad then! It's an HR20-700. I assumed that was a 3D capable receiver & the message was referring to my AV receiver, not the DirecTV receiver. 

I'll give them a call & see what they have to say about a replacement.


----------



## RAD

Dan B said:


> Oh, my bad then! It's an HR20-700. I assumed that was a 3D capable receiver & the message was referring to my AV receiver, not the DirecTV receiver.
> 
> I'll give them a call & see what they have to say about a replacement.


Make sure you tell them you don't need a HR20 but a HR21/22/23/ or HR24 for 3D. Reason is that many times they see you have a HR20 and try to ship you another one since the HR20's have built in ATSC tuners, the others need the AM21 add on module for ATSC support. So even though the code the HR20 displays is supposed to make sure you don't get another HR20 I've see some folks say they've gone through multiple HR20 'upgrades' before the CSR gets it right. Good Luck!


----------



## TBlazer07

Dan B said:


> Oh, my bad then! It's an HR20-700. I assumed that was a 3D capable receiver & the message was referring to my AV receiver, not the DirecTV receiver.
> 
> I'll give them a call & see what they have to say about a replacement.


No new commitment to upgrade from HR20 (not 3d compatible) to 3D capable HR. Just had an HR20 swapped for an HR24 + free AM21 in mid-Jan because I got a 3D TV and had an HR20. I specifically asked and was told, then checked and verified after the install that there was no commitment added.

They have 2 specific promos in their system. 1 gives you a "no commitment" no cost even for shipping swap for the HR20 or H20->to an H or HR21,2,3,4 receiver and the other gives you a free AM-21 OTA box if you were using OTA on your current HR20 box.

Make sure you confirm with the rep that they are aware of these 2 promos. If not have them check with a supervisor for the promo numbers.


----------



## RAD

TBlazer07 said:


> No new commitment to upgrade from HR20 (not 3d compatible) to 3D capable HR.


Nice to hear I was incorrect on the commitment, glad that DIRECTV steps up and does a free swap because the HR20/H20 can't do 3D.


----------



## itzme

Raddle said:


> I submitted an issue support.directv.com/app/ask.
> 
> Attached is my exchange with DirecTV on this problem. The two most important quotes from DirecTV are below:
> 
> "I have verified that your TV supports the 3D channels, however, please make sure that the receiver is connected directly using HDMI cables to your 3DTV and is not being run through other devices such as a Blu-Ray or A/V receiver."
> 
> "I have forwarded your suggestion regarding the format in which we broadcast 3D on to DIRECTV Management for review."


My support email and reply didn't even 'get forwarded for review.' My email to them explained I was getting the (797) error on most PPV's and most ESPN 3D broadcasts, and how if I bypassed my AVR everything worked. I acknowledges that the Pioneer caused the problem. I also explained the difficulty in wiring my system and programming my remotes when bypassing the AVR, as you did with your wall mount issue. The body of my email to them was asking if DirecTV could please look into a fix with HR firmware. Here's the reply:
-------------------------------
Subject Line: Couldn't buy a 3D Pay Per View PPV

Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Marilou A. - 100133544) - 02/16/2011 06:45 PM
Dear Mr. xxxxxxxxxxx,

Thanks for taking the time to write us. I see that you have been a loyal DIRECTV customer for many years. I want you to know that we truly appreciate your business.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble getting 3D programming.

I'd like to inform you that error message that you're getting usually appears when running the 3D signal through an AV receiver, Blu-ray player, or other device.

Please know that the 3D ready receiver must be directly connected to the 3DTV via HDMI cables. This is because 3D data is communicated directly between the receiver and the TV through the HDMI cable. Thus, connecting any devices in between the receiver and the TV interrupts that 3D data.

Additionally, _most AV receivers do not currently support the proper pass through of the HDMI data_. These types of AV receivers will not work with 3D. Please check with your AV receiver manufacturer to determine if it will work with 3D.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Thanks again for writing.

Sincerely,

Maxxxxxx
Employee ID xxxx
DIRECTV Customer Service
​


----------



## Laxguy

Are you suggesting that DirecTV engineer dozens of fixes so that all third party AV equipment will pass through 3D signals? If so, I'll bet dollars to donuts (mmmmm , Doouugghnuttttts!) that won't happen.


----------



## itzme

Laxguy said:


> Are you suggesting that DirecTV engineer dozens of fixes so that all third party AV equipment will pass through 3D signals? If so, I'll bet dollars to donuts (mmmmm , Doouugghnuttttts!) that won't happen.


Of course not. Based on the earlier posts, I dont think that would be the case at all. While I certainly don't pretend to know what's technically involved, many other posts here suggest that a single fix would address the problems-- a firmware update with code that addresses upscaling (see numerous previous posts for details), and/or the manner in which DTV recently changed sending the signal could be addressed. Also, if this issue were affecting 'most' of those who use HDMI > AVR >TV this would be a lot longer thread.

The bigger issue seems to be that there are no standards, but that's a whole different can of worms that I'm not going near.


----------



## Raddle

itzme said:


> _...most AV receivers do not currently support the proper pass through of the HDMI data_. These types of AV receivers will not work with 3D. Please check with your AV receiver manufacturer to determine if it will work with 3D.


It's disappointing this is the party line with DirecTV support. I still have not seen any communication directly from DirecTV engineering or management affirming they are working to solve the problem. Very disappointing.


----------



## itzme

Raddle said:


> It's disappointing this is the party line with DirecTV support. I still have not seen any communication directly from DirecTV engineering or management affirming they are working to solve the problem. Very disappointing.


I'm not sure that they ever let us know when they're working on a fix. At least its very rare, and I can understand that I guess.


----------



## drkashner

TBlazer07 said:


> No new commitment to upgrade from HR20 (not 3d compatible) to 3D capable HR. Just had an HR20 swapped for an HR24 + free AM21 in mid-Jan because I got a 3D TV and had an HR20. I specifically asked and was told, then checked and verified after the install that there was no commitment added.
> 
> They have 2 specific promos in their system. 1 gives you a "no commitment" no cost even for shipping swap for the HR20 or H20->to an H or HR21,2,3,4 receiver and the other gives you a free AM-21 OTA box if you were using OTA on your current HR20 box.
> 
> Make sure you confirm with the rep that they are aware of these 2 promos. If not have them check with a supervisor for the promo numbers.


I have the HR20-700 and just got a Samsung 3d TV. I really didn't care about the 3d, but as long as I have it, I might as well use it. I really have to have my OTA channels. Those with the AM21 does it work ok? Also what model DVR am I likely to get if I get it swapped out.


----------



## I WANT MORE

drkashner said:


> I have the HR20-700 and just got a Samsung 3d TV. I really didn't care about the 3d, but as long as I have it, I might as well use it. I really have to have my OTA channels. Those with the AM21 does it work ok? Also what model DVR am I likely to get if I get it swapped out.


HR24-500 w/AM21 works like a charm.
You might as well connect the HDMI directly to the tv vs routing it through an AVR if you want it to work for 3d.


----------



## RAD

drkashner said:


> I have the HR20-700 and just got a Samsung 3d TV. I really didn't care about the 3d, but as long as I have it, I might as well use it. I really have to have my OTA channels. Those with the AM21 does it work ok? Also what model DVR am I likely to get if I get it swapped out.


I've used HR24-100/HR24-200 and HR24-500's, all with AM21's, on 3D sets plus a HR23-700. In the beginning there were some issues, the only problem I've seen (and that was a couple months ago) was the download of SOS Planet on the HR24-500 wouldn't play without breaking up. I don't have any HR24-500's on a 3D set at the moment so I don't know if they fixed that or not.

As for what model you'll get, as per standard DIRECTV practice, it can be anything from a HR21 to a HR24, with the odds most likely a refurb HR21/HR22 since they've been out the longest.


----------



## TBlazer07

drkashner said:


> I have the HR20-700 and just got a Samsung 3d TV. I really didn't care about the 3d, but as long as I have it, I might as well use it. I really have to have my OTA channels. Those with the AM21 does it work ok? Also what model DVR am I likely to get if I get it swapped out.


Part of the "free upgrade" deal is that they also give you a free AM21 if you need OTA. Don't let them tell you otherwise. There is an actual policy that provides that as there is for the HR20->HR21,2,3,4 upgrade. I got an HR21 but it was defective on receipt (yea, they really test all refurbs before shipping them out) so a tech brought out an HR24 which works fine with the AM21.


----------



## drkashner

TBlazer07 said:


> Part of the "free upgrade" deal is that they also give you a free AM21 if you need OTA. Don't let them tell you otherwise. There is an actual policy that provides that as there is for the HR20->HR21,2,3,4 upgrade. I got an HR21 but it was defective on receipt (yea, they really test all refurbs before shipping them out) so a tech brought out an HR24 which works fine with the AM21.


Thanks, I guess theres no way to be sure I can get an HR24. I'm going to call them Monday.


----------



## drkashner

TBlazer07 said:


> No new commitment to upgrade from HR20 (not 3d compatible) to 3D capable HR. Just had an HR20 swapped for an HR24 + free AM21 in mid-Jan because I got a 3D TV and had an HR20. I specifically asked and was told, then checked and verified after the install that there was no commitment added.
> 
> They have 2 specific promos in their system. 1 gives you a "no commitment" no cost even for shipping swap for the HR20 or H20->to an H or HR21,2,3,4 receiver and the other gives you a free AM-21 OTA box if you were using OTA on your current HR20 box.
> 
> Make sure you confirm with the rep that they are aware of these 2 promos. If not have them check with a supervisor for the promo numbers.[/QUO
> 
> Thanks for letting me know about the promotions. Called DTV this morning and got a different dvr and the am21 for no cost. I didn't ask, but she told me there was no commitment. I knew they did away with that after the lawsuit. I asked if there was any way I could get an HR24 and she said that I would get whatever they had that was compatible with 3d.


----------



## coota

Do the new LG Cinema 3D tv's work with Directv. These are the ones that use regular theater type glasses.


----------



## Beerstalker

I don't know of any reason why it shouldn't work. I would have to believe that LG would be making them compatible with all standards for 3D that are being used right now.

However, I would think the picture quality is probably going to suffer a bit. DirecTVs 3D system already has to cut the resolution by half in order to get the channel to work with their equipment (side by side 3d). Then the LG passive 3D displays also have to cut the resolution in half in order for it to work with their passive displays. So I'm thinking you are oging to end up with pretty much a standard def 3D picture by the time you get to see it.


----------



## itzme

coota said:


> Do the new LG Cinema 3D tv's work with Directv. These are the ones that use regular theater type glasses.





Beerstalker said:


> I don't know of any reason why it shouldn't work. I would have to believe that LG would be making them compatible with all standards for 3D that are being used right now.
> 
> However, I would think the picture quality is probably going to suffer a bit. DirecTVs 3D system already has to cut the resolution by half in order to get the channel to work with their equipment (side by side 3d). Then the LG passive 3D displays also have to cut the resolution in half in order for it to work with their passive displays. So I'm thinking you are oging to end up with pretty much a standard def 3D picture by the time you get to see it.


I wonder if you really are double-reducing the resolution, that's in interesting question? I did find this from Consumer reports regarding passive glasses, assuming that's what the LG is using...

Cons:The most significant downside to this passive 3D technology: noticeable loss of resolution when in the 3D mode because of the way that the separate 3D images are displayed. Each eye receives only half the 1080p vertical resolution of the image. The loss of resolution might be visually subtle to some viewers, depending on the 3D program material, but it's likely to be noticeable-and bothersome-to more discerning viewers, especially on a big screen.​
Also note that Samsung has reduced the price on their Active glasses down to $49.


----------



## HDMike

TBlazer07 said:


> Part of the "free upgrade" deal is that they also give you a free AM21 if you need OTA. Don't let them tell you otherwise. There is an actual policy that provides that as there is for the HR20->HR21,2,3,4 upgrade. I got an HR21 but it was defective on receipt (yea, they really test all refurbs before shipping them out) so a tech brought out an HR24 which works fine with the AM21.


Will they send am AM21 even if your market has HD locals on DTV? I ask because when I swapped an H20 (which had OTA tuners) for an H24 (which did not) to get MRV, they refused my request for the AM21 for that reason.

I would also lose all the unwatched recordings on the eSATA drive connected to the HR20 

When will DTV ever allow the external drives to be ported to replacement receivers for this exact reason? 

Mike


----------



## drkashner

HDMike said:


> Will they send am AM21 even if your market has HD locals on DTV? I ask because when I swapped an H20 (which had OTA tuners) for an H24 (which did not) to get MRV, they refused my request for the AM21 for that reason.
> 
> I would also lose all the unwatched recordings on the eSATA drive connected to the HR20
> 
> When will DTV ever allow the external drives to be ported to replacement receivers for this exact reason?
> 
> Mike


I have all locals in HD on Directv except the CW and they sent me an AM21 for free.


----------



## RichYak

I'm new to D* and tried to tune to ESPN-3D for the first time last night. My setup:

HR24-500 --HDMI--> Pioneer VSX-1020K --HDMI--> Samsung 53PNC8000

I got the same 720p format not supported msg that others have received. Not really an NBA fan, so no urgency on my part, was just curious. I'll toy with settings over the next couple weeks before finally taking the AVR out of the loop.


----------



## RAD

RichYak said:


> I'm new to D* and tried to tune to ESPN-3D for the first time last night. My setup:
> 
> HR24-500 --HDMI--> Pioneer VSX-1020K --HDMI--> Samsung 53PNC8000
> 
> I got the same 720p format not supported msg that others have received. Not really an NBA fan, so no urgency on my part, was just curious. I'll toy with settings over the next couple weeks before finally taking the AVR out of the loop.


IIRC folks that have contacted Pioneer were told the problem would be fixed in the 2011 models and no fix for the 2010's. When I tried the Pioneer's, including the 1020 nothing worked as long as it was in the signal path.


----------



## itzme

RichYak said:


> I'm new to D* and tried to tune to ESPN-3D for the first time last night. My setup:
> 
> HR24-500 --HDMI--> Pioneer VSX-1020K --HDMI--> Samsung 53PNC8000
> 
> I got the same 720p format not supported msg that others have received. Not really an NBA fan, so no urgency on my part, was just curious. I'll toy with settings over the next couple weeks before finally taking the AVR out of the loop.





RAD said:


> IIRC folks that have contacted Pioneer were told the problem would be fixed in the 2011 models and no fix for the 2010's. When I tried the Pioneer's, including the 1020 nothing worked as long as it was in the signal path.


Rad is entirely correct. Others have suggested that DirecTV _could_ fix the issue, but for whatever reason they haven't. The issue will affect not just NBA, but all other sports on ESPN and I'm the same error affecting other events and programs on other channels, including DirectTVs 3D PPV offerings.


----------



## RichYak

itzme said:


> Rad is entirely correct. Others have suggested that DirecTV _could_ fix the issue, but for whatever reason they haven't. The issue will affect not just NBA, but all other sports on ESPN and I'm the same error affecting other events and programs on other channels, including DirectTVs 3D PPV offerings.


Thanks guys, I won't waste my time fiddling then.

itzme: I realize it will affect ALL sports on ESPN, I was only referring to the immediacy or rather the lack thereof. The only upcoming 3D broadcasts seem to be all NBA. I've yet to try any 3D PPV. How about VOD? i noticed a 3D VOD channel that I hadn't noticed before.


----------



## itzme

I can confirm that the issue prevents you from viewing some 3D PPVs on that channel, but I can say for certain the issue affects all of them. I wish DirecTV would fix this (if they can, as many suspect). You should also report this issue online. They tell you to make sure to bybass your AVR and keep a direct HDMI connection. For various reasons for many of us, that isn't an easy option to do, or an option at all if its wall mounted, and if we'd like our $3000 TVs to play through our sound system's speakers.


----------



## JimAtTheRez

TBlazer07 said:


> No new commitment to upgrade from HR20 (not 3d compatible) to 3D capable HR. Just had an HR20 swapped for an HR24 + free AM21 in mid-Jan because I got a 3D TV and had an HR20. I specifically asked and was told, then checked and verified after the install that there was no commitment added.
> 
> They have 2 specific promos in their system. 1 gives you a "no commitment" no cost even for shipping swap for the HR20 or H20->to an H or HR21,2,3,4 receiver and the other gives you a free AM-21 OTA box if you were using OTA on your current HR20 box.
> 
> Make sure you confirm with the rep that they are aware of these 2 promos. If not have them check with a supervisor for the promo numbers.


Thanks for the heads up, TBlazer. My new HD DVR and AM21 are on the way at no charge and no new commitment. Again, thanks.


----------



## itzme

JimAtTheRez said:


> Thanks for the heads up, TBlazer. My new HD DVR and AM21 are on the way at no charge and no new commitment. Again, thanks.


So I just recently replaced my 2010 Samsung c8000 panel with the 2011 d8000. I knew that my DirecTV receiver had problems with my Pioneer 1020 AVR with most ESPN3D content, some other sports, and DirecTV Pay-per-Views. But now I discovered that even MORE programming won't play back and is getting the Resolution Incompatibility error message (which is wrong).

I just went to play Encounter in the Third Dimension from ch103, something I had recorded awhile back and played on my C8000 several times. Now that program gets the error message, too. Why? Thats a real mystery!

I really wish DirecTV would consider fixing this, assuming that can. At least Pioneer had the guts to admit it was a problem with their AVR and that they wouldn't be fixing it, but they indicated to others that DirecTV could fix it- if they wanted to. Frustrated.

If anyone has ever found a fix to this issue, or a workaround that doesn't involve a separate HDMI cable, splitter, and separate optical cable and lots of splitting and switching, please let me know.


----------



## RAD

I know it's been said before, you just need to bypass the Pinoeer AVR. Run HDMI from the DIRECTV receiver to the TV and an optical or coax feed for the digital so you get DD5.1 audio. Either that or get rid of the Pioneer, which I know you've said you can't. Since DIRECTV has said they'll only support problems with a direct connection I wouldn't wait for them to fix the issue. Frankly I don't see this as a bad solution, it's only an additional optical/coax cable for the audio to your Pioneer, the HDMI that now goes to the Pioneer just gets moved to the TV. Then on the TV you either select HDMI1 for your Poineer's HDMI output or HDMI2 for yor DIRECTV receiver. 

I have a HR24 connected to a PN51D8000, which replaced a PN50C8000 and all content plays with the direct connection for video and optical to my Onkyo for audio.


----------



## RAD

itzme said:


> I really wish DirecTV would consider fixing this, assuming that can. At least Pioneer had the guts to admit it was a problem with their AVR and that they wouldn't be fixing it, but they indicated to others that DirecTV could fix it- if they wanted to.


But wasn't it that Pioneer wasn't going to fix it in their 2010 models, you wanted a fix you had to purchase a new 2011?

Could DIRECTV fix it, maybe, probably could. But then what about someone with another vendors AVR that doesn't work, they then need to spend the time and resources to put in a work around for that vendor. IMHI it's just the times we live in, they come up with the HDMI specification and one vendor interprets the specs different then another and you end up with compatibility issues. Ah, for the days of simple analog connections


----------



## itzme

Hi RAD, as usual you make all valid points, though I think I have a different impression on the advantages of DTV fixing the issues with Pioneer. I was thinking that if they fixed it for the Pioneer 1020-k, they'd likely be fixing it for some other AVRs that are having similar problems. I believe the fix involved the method DTV uses in broadcasting and/or encoding some 3D signal (I may be wrong there, I never really understood the root issue). Is that wrong? Do we know if more than us pre-2011 Pioneer owners might benefit?

On a related topic, is there a list of AVR models that can't pass-through the 3D signal? 

I realize many benefits to having all devices (including two HR-24s) pass through the AVR and enter into the panels HDMI2 input, too many to mention in detail. That said, someday I hope to insert an HDMI splitter behind my rack, that will let me have one hook-up as pass-through and another as direct. The reason I re-posted here was to see if a better solution might now exist, before I go through doing all that and praying it doesn't mess up anything else.


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## I WANT MORE

RAD said:


> I know it's been said before, you just need to bypass the Pinoeer AVR. Run HDMI from the DIRECTV receiver to the TV and an optical or coax feed for the digital so you get DD5.1 audio. Either that or get rid of the Pioneer, which I know you've said you can't. Since DIRECTV has said they'll only support problems with a direct connection I wouldn't wait for them to fix the issue. *Frankly I don't see this as a bad solution, it's only an additional optical/coax cable for the audio to your Pioneer, the HDMI that now goes to the Pioneer just gets moved to the TV. Then on the TV you either select HDMI1 for your Poineer's HDMI output or HDMI2 for yor DIRECTV receiver. *I have a HR24 connected to a PN51D8000, which replaced a PN50C8000 and all content plays with the direct connection for video and optical to my Onkyo for audio.


Thats all fine and dandy. What about those of us who had our TVs calibrated and didn't have an additional HDMI input calibrated because at the time D* 3d worked just fine? 
I'm sure you are aware that it is not cheap to get a calibrator to come out to the sticks and calibrate an additional input.


----------



## RAD

Is your AVR altering the signal in any way? If yes I can see your point but if not why not just copy the settings to another HDMI input?


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## dettxw

Buying a new receiver, like I did replacing the Pioneer VSX-1020 with a clearance Denon AVR-791, solves the espn 3D problem too.


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## itzme

dettxw said:


> Buying a new receiver, like I did replacing the Pioneer VSX-1020 with a clearance Denon AVR-791, solves the espn 3D problem too.


While I agree that would be a fix, it makes no sense for me. The Pioneer was a gift. It's sound quality is simply amazing, compared to the 4-yr old Panasonic AVR it replaced last Christmas.

So I could never justify forking out ~$450 just because directv changed the way they send 3D.

Interesting Side note: One of the channels that are incompatible with the Pioneer is DTVs PPV 3D. I learned that when I had some kids over and I was going to buy them a $6.99 movie to watch.


----------



## dettxw

Wonder what you could get for the Pioneer VSX-1020 on Craigslist?
I'm going to put mine in the MBR where an older Denon has only 2 HDMI inputs and 3D capability isn't required.
Maybe after a while the new fully 3D capable Pioneer VSX-1021 model will come down off of the current $549 price. 
If you don't need the internet radio, i-stuff, and 1080p upscaling then a fully 3D capable Pioneer VSX-521 can be had for $229. 
I wish that Pioneer had done like Denon and fully implemented the HDMI 1.4 standards (including the optional 720p SbS format like DirecTV gives us for espn 3D) in their 2010 models.
They obviously reconsidered that they needed to comply for their 2011 models, but didn't think that the 2010 owners merited a firmware upgrade (hard to do on a VSX-1020 as it has to be sent back to the factory).


----------



## Gotchaa

"dettxw" said:


> Buying a new receiver, like I did replacing the Pioneer VSX-1020 with a clearance Denon AVR-791, solves the espn 3D problem too.


I practically begged Pioneer Senior Mgmt to issue an update and work with DirecTV, they decided to focus on this years receivers. So I returned my Elite. Switched to Denon after 20+ years with Pioneer, and am glad I did...no issues at all. Don't buy Pioneer they don't have any interest in fixing things anymore they are a volume vendor now...


----------



## elove

Ok,

I just bought a Panasonic ST 3D TV. I am running all of my audio/video connections (i.e., Directv receiver, 3Dbluray, etc) through a Denon 591 receiver.

I tried watching 3net and the other 3D channel last night and the picture was still blurry. I was able to watch Avatar using the 3D bluray player and the picture was perfect. 

I am using a HR20-100 DVR. All of the 3D channels appear in my guide. I don't get a message saying 3D is not supported, but the channels are just blurry/unwatchable. Do I need a newer model HDDVR.

Thanks


----------



## taz291819

elove said:


> Ok,
> 
> I just bought a Panasonic ST 3D TV. I am running all of my audio/video connections (i.e., Directv receiver, 3Dbluray, etc) through a Denon 591 receiver.
> 
> I tried watching 3net and the other 3D channel last night and the picture was still blurry. I was able to watch Avatar using the 3D bluray player and the picture was perfect.
> 
> I am using a HR20-100 DVR. All of the 3D channels appear in my guide. I don't get a message saying 3D is not supported, but the channels are just blurry/unwatchable. Do I need a newer model HDDVR.
> 
> Thanks


Yes, the HR20-series won't output 3D.


----------



## elove

taz291819 said:


> Yes, the HR20-series won't output 3D.


Thanks. Do you know if Directv will upgrade me at no cost to a newer model DVR.


----------



## RAD

elove said:


> I am using a HR20-100 DVR. All of the 3D channels appear in my guide. I don't get a message saying 3D is not supported, but the channels are just blurry/unwatchable. Do I need a newer model HDDVR.
> 
> Thanks





taz291819 said:


> Yes, the HR20-series won't output 3D.


As noted the HR20 and H20 receivers don't support 3D, you should have seen a message saying to call a special 800 number to arrange a receiver swap. Maybe because you're routing the signal through the Denon is messing that up. Anyway, call DIRECTV, tell them you have just got a new 3D TV and need to HR21 or later receiver, they're supposed to swap it for free. Be warned that the 3D receivers don't have build in ATSC/over the air tuners, you'll need to add the AM21/AM21N tuner addon if you need OTA support.


----------



## Beerstalker

Also, just so you know, the way DirecTV (and the cable companies) do 3D you lose half of the resolution from the picture. So DirecTVs 3D is not going to look as good as Blu-Ray 3D, and you shouldn't expect it to.


----------



## elove

Edit:

I just got home and checked my receiver model # to make sure. Lo and behold, I have an HR22-100. This may explain why I see the 3D channels in my guide and I do not get a cannot display 3D resolution error. However, I get a blurry picture when I hook the directv receiver to the Denon 591 3D receiver via hdmi.

Therefore, I tried running the HDMI directly from the directv receiver to the TV and it worked. I don't know why it didn't work when I ran it through the Denon 591, it's suppose to be 3D receiver. I just checked the specs. Could this be due to the directv receiver not being HDMI 1.4a compliant.

Thanks


----------



## RAD

elove said:


> Edit:
> 
> I just got home and checked my receiver model # to make sure. Lo and behold, I have an HR22-100. This may explain why I see the 3D channels in my guide and I do not get a cannot display 3D resolution error. However, I get a blurry picture when I hook the directv receiver to the Denon 591 3D receiver via hdmi.
> 
> Therefore, I tried running the HDMI directly from the directv receiver to the TV and it worked. I don't know why it didn't work when I ran it through the Denon 591, it's suppose to be 3D receiver. I just checked the specs. Could this be due to the directv receiver not being HDMI 1.4a compliant.
> 
> Thanks


DIRECTV receivers aren't HDMI 1.4a so I don't think that's the problem. I run through a Denon 891 with DIRECTV receivers, no problem, you might want to play around with the video processing settings on the Denon to see if that helps.


----------



## elove

I have another problem now. My 3D channels are now blacked out in my channel guide, before they were not. Granted when I tune to the channel it works. Any thoughts as to why. I did a reset and it didn't fix it.

Thanks!


----------



## elove

RAD said:


> DIRECTV receivers aren't HDMI 1.4a so I don't think that's the problem. I run through a Denon 891 with DIRECTV receivers, no problem, you might want to play around with the video processing settings on the Denon to see if that helps.


Thanks, any particular setting I should use. BTW, I am able to see a 3D image when running my 3D bluray player through the Denon receiver. I watched Avatar 3D and I had no issues. That's why I thought it may be the Directv receiver!


----------



## RAD

elove said:


> I have another problem now. My 3D channels are now blacked out in my channel guide, before they were not. Granted when I tune to the channel it works. Any thoughts as to why. I did a reset and it didn't fix it.
> 
> Thanks!


Just give it some time, they'll come back. From what I've seen when the DIRECTV receiver doesn't communincate with the TV for some period of time it "forget's" that it was connected to a 3D set so it grays out the channels, and also drops the DIRECTV on Demand 3D channel (105).

Unless you really need to, I'd recommend just running HDMI directly to the TV from your DIRECTV receiver and then use an optical or coax cable between the DIRECTV receiver and your Denon for the digital audio. DIRECTV also recommends the direction connection method and doesn't support running through an AVR.


----------



## elove

RAD said:


> Just give it some time, they'll come back. From what I've seen when the DIRECTV receiver doesn't communincate with the TV for some period of time it "forget's" that it was connected to a 3D set so it grays out the channels, and also drops the DIRECTV on Demand 3D channel (105).
> 
> Unless you really need to, I'd recommend just running HDMI directly to the TV from your DIRECTV receiver and then use an optical or coax cable between the DIRECTV receiver and your Denon for the digital audio. DIRECTV also recommends the direction connection method and doesn't support running through an AVR.


Ok, thanks!


----------



## Dan B

It could be an HDMI handshake issue where you need to turn them on in the order of: 

1) TV
2) Denon AVR
3) DirecTV receiver

...and see if that fixes it. 

I also use a Panasonic plasma & Denon receiver (although different models than you) and it works usually, although once in a while I have to turn them on in the order listed above.


----------



## Tony Chick

Just joined the 3D club due to some incredible deals at Fry's. The combination of my HR21 > Onkyo HT-R360 receiver (the NR609 minus PC input and THX Cert) > LG 47LW5600 TV works perfectly. I know there's a raging debate about passive .vs. active glasses, but the passive on the LG looks pretty good to me!

Now I just need to get the HR20 in the same cabinet upgraded to something plus AM21


----------



## scottyikon

It just pisses me off that Direct TV is making me change my system. I upgraded to the HR21 to get the 3D broadcast only to find like all of you that my Onkyo HTS-5300 which is v1.4a compliant doesn't play with Direct TV. All my cabling is in the walls. I can't just bypass direct TV BS I have to switch all my input through an HDMI switch and pass the audio back Thur optical digital. I did find the MonoPrice HDX-420X HDMI switch will work with Direct TV 3D as long as I don't split the signal off on the B side of the switch. Is there a 7.1 receiver out there that works with Direct TV 3D protocol?


----------



## RAD

My Denon AVR891 works just fine with DIRECTV HD receivers and DVR's and my PS3.


----------



## taz291819

My parents Onkyo works just fine with Directv's 3D channels. It's the AVR that came with the Onkyo HTS-5400. They bought it at HHGregg. It's odd that the AVR that comes with the HTS-5300 doesn't work properly.

Have you turned off all video processing in the AVR?

EDIT:
I set it up for them, and will be over at their house this coming weekend. If you want, I'll look at the AVR's settings and post them here.


----------



## Tony Chick

scottyikon said:


> It just pisses me off that Direct TV is making me change my system. I upgraded to the HR21 to get the 3D broadcast only to find like all of you that my Onkyo HTS-5300 which is v1.4a compliant doesn't play with Direct TV. All my cabling is in the walls. I can't just bypass direct TV BS I have to switch all my input through an HDMI switch and pass the audio back Thur optical digital. I did find the MonoPrice HDX-420X HDMI switch will work with Direct TV 3D as long as I don't split the signal off on the B side of the switch. Is there a 7.1 receiver out there that works with Direct TV 3D protocol?


My Onkyo HT-R360 works fine with my HR21 as do all of the NRxx9 series. I suspect yours does too, make sure the HDMI setting in the Hardware Settings menu is set to "Through" rather than upconverting and that your HDMI cables support it. Try changing to channels 103 and 107 manually rather than going through the guide, mine were grayed out until I did this the first time.


----------



## RichYak

So, I'm finally getting tired of not watching ESPN-3D because of my Pioneer 1020-K AVR. I'm going to by-pass it with HDMI direct to TV and optical to the AVR as the suggested workaround. 

Here's my question before I buy cables to do this: Other threads about D* STB slowness have D* recommending setting Native Mode to OFF. My understanding is that causes the STB to scale everything to 1080i (or whatever I have the STB set to at the time). Will ESPN-3D, upscaled to 1080i from 720p by my HR24, work ok? Thanks in advance.


----------



## RichYak

By the way, I found this to be an interesting read even though I didn't understand most of it...

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10895652&channelID=1&portalPageId=1002

Edit: Reading the link above answers my question in my prior post. It seems that setting Native Mode to OFF has no effect on a 3D channel. In fact, the poster notes that if the STB *did* scale 720P-3D to 1080i-3D, the ESPN 3D problem would be solved.


----------



## RAD

"RichYak" said:


> So, I'm finally getting tired of not watching ESPN-3D because of my Pioneer 1020-K AVR. I'm going to by-pass it with HDMI direct to TV and optical to the AVR as the suggested workaround.
> 
> Here's my question before I buy cables to do this: Other threads about D* STB slowness have D* recommending setting Native Mode to OFF. My understanding is that causes the STB to scale everything to 1080i (or whatever I have the STB set to at the time). Will ESPN-3D, upscaled to 1080i from 720p by my HR24, work ok? Thanks in advance.


With native off and watching a 3D program the box overrides that setting and uses the native resolution, at least that's what I see. I run at 1080i out of the box and when tuned to 106 the TV reports 1280x720/60p as the resolution.


----------



## RichYak

Thanks RAD, that confirms what I read in the thread I linked to in my post above.


----------



## RichYak

To all having problems with ESPN-3D, take note of post #25 by Satelliteracer in this thread. Perhaps a fix is finally coming.


----------



## itzme

RichYak said:


> To all having problems with ESPN-3D, take note of post #25 by Satelliteracer in this thread. Perhaps a fix is finally coming.


I asked him point blank if the Pionneer 1020 issue might get fixed, I'm hoping for a reply soon. Maybe a firmware update is coming to convert the current ESPN format to make the channel compatible with all receivers and TV's.


----------



## itzme

Is ... nevermind


----------



## Dr_J

Is this receiver incompatibility restricted to DirecTV/ESPN 3D, or are there 3D Blu-Ray movies out there that there might be a problem with as well? I'd hate to buy a 3D movie and discover that it's incompatible with my receiver.


----------



## itzme

Dr_J said:


> Is this receiver incompatibility restricted to Directv/ESPN3D, or are there 3D Blu-Ray movies out there that there might be a problem with as well? I'd hate to buy a 3D movie and discover that it's incompatible with my receiver.


You're probably OK to trust your setup. The issue at hand in this thread involves Directv/ESPN3D/AND certain AVRs (Pioneers included).


----------



## I WANT MORE

Dr_J said:


> Is this receiver incompatibility restricted to DirecTV/ESPN 3D, or are there 3D Blu-Ray movies out there that there might be a problem with as well? I'd hate to buy a 3D movie and discover that it's incompatible with my receiver.


It is an ESPN 3D on DirecTv issue. Pioneer receivers work fine with all BluRay discs and other 3D programming. ESPN and D* made a decision to change the way they distribute their programming and that is what is causing the issues.


----------



## teachsac

It's not ESPN and D* that made the decision, it is D*. They are fed both the mandatory 720p T/B and 720p SbS feeds. They choose to use the SbS feed. My correspondance with them as of this week is they have no intention of changing the feed. It's not just an AVR issue, it is also a problem with JVC projectors. Hopefully Satelliteracer knows something different than management has passed on to me.

S~


----------



## palmgrower

ESPN 3D
Family Room HR24/500 with Samsung PN59D8000FF:up:
Master Bedroom H25 with Samsung PN59D8000FF:up:


----------



## scb2k

There is an Issue with ESPN 3D if you have your D* receiver connected through a Sony BDV-HZ970W Blu-ray Player.

All other 3D channels will work fine but ESPN 3D will only work if you plug your D* receiver directly to the TV.

My Tv is Samsung UN55D8000.


----------



## itzme

pastaman said:


> overall would you say the glasses can also cause a problem like a headache dizzieness or eye problems?


I watch 3D on average of 1-3 times a month. While there are lots of articles and research out there to the contrary, my friends and family have never complained of any of those symptoms. A first-time user may initially feel like they'll get those symptoms, but after you relax there's no issues. After 2 or more hours, I might say there is a tiny sensations of eye strain. It's more like a slight sense of relief when you take them off. Same as if you've ever gone to a 3D movie. In fact the entire experience is much like going to a 3D movie, so you should experiment with that.

I happen to think that 3D is fun and worth the price, esp since the price difference has gone down so much lately. But my bias is that I paid the price. Note that there's also a bias of opinion from folks who don't own 3D. The bias involves both of us wanting to justify our decisions.


----------



## kude

I haven't seen where anyone has a SONY LCD 3D tv kooked up. It will be direct to the the HD receiver. I guess I am the guinea pig on SONY LCDs? Will post results later.


----------



## gpg

kude said:


> I haven't seen where anyone has a SONY LCD 3D tv kooked up. It will be direct to the the HD receiver. I guess I am the guinea pig on SONY LCDs? Will post results later.


I have Sony 40NX711 hooked directly to an HR21-700. It works well with all the regular DirecTV 3D channels. I haven't tried 3D ppv.


----------



## NR4P

kude said:


> I haven't seen where anyone has a SONY LCD 3D tv kooked up. It will be direct to the the HD receiver. I guess I am the guinea pig on SONY LCDs? Will post results later.


Thats because its the "what doesn't work" thread. Sony owners aren't reporting in because they do work just fine. NX, HX and LX series are known to be good.

Good Luck.


----------



## spartanstew

Set up my HR21 to the Mits adapter and then to my Mits display a few months ago. Worked fine the few times I tried it.

Hadn't used it in awhile and have tried a few times in the last couple of weeks and always with the same result:

As soon as I switch to a 3D channel, the Mits adapter lights up to show it's receiving the 3D signal, but the TV screen remains black. I do get audio through the AVR. Once I'm locked onto a 3D signal, it's very hard to get off of it. Changing channels on the DVR often does nothing (the light on the DVR blinks, but the DVR remains on the same channel - can tell via the audio). Sometimes hitting channel up many times in conjunction with List, menu, etc., will result in the DVR fixing itself and sometimes I've actually had to RBR.

Anyway, not sure if it's an issue with the adapter or the DVR, but haven't been able to watch 3D at all in the last couple of weeks.


----------



## kude

NR4P said:


> Thats because its the "what doesn't work" thread. Sony owners aren't reporting in because they do work just fine. NX, HX and LX series are known to be good.
> 
> Good Luck.


Okay that's good to realize.


----------



## teachsac

Yeap. I have the Sony HX820 and it works perfectly running through a Denon 2112 receiver.

S~


----------



## skylab

My Yamaha RX-V867 receiver does not work with DirecTV 3d. It does work fine with 3d from my PS3.


----------



## itzme

Can someone test something for me? Is it possible that the signal on ESPN3D is now 1080i? I see boxing (2:25 pm ET) through my Pioneer VSX-1020 and my TV is saying its in 1080i, not the problematic 720pSBS.

Is it possible that DirecTV granted me 2 big wishes on the same day!!!? 

I won't get to excited until I test some more or hear more from you guys. Would that change have gotten past Sixto's uplink reports?


----------



## RAD

itzme said:


> Can someone test something for me? Is it possible that the signal on ESPN3D is now 1080i? I see boxing (2:25 pm ET) through my Pioneer VSX-1020 and my TV is saying its in 1080i, not the problematic 720pSBS.


My Samsung is showing ch 106 as 1920x1080/60i, so looks like Satelliteracers info was correct. Enjoy, just in time for the start of CFB this month.


----------



## itzme

WOW! 2 Wishes in one day!!! Thank you SatRacer and DirecTV!


----------



## I WANT MORE

I guess I should be happy. Now I can rip my system apart and re-do it again.


----------



## itzme

I WANT MORE said:


> I guess I should be happy. Now I can rip my system apart and re-do it again.


SR did ask us to have a little faith. I hope you didn't rip it apart too much. :grin: Its nice to have all my devices going through my Pioneer 1020. That ESPN 720pSBS was the only quirk I ever experienced doing it that way.

I sure hope the industry retires that format!


----------



## Dr_J

Looking forward to giving it a try when I get home. 

I never buy PPV, but I remember reading on here that the 3D PPV channel sometimes had issues with these receivers. I don't know if that's still the case or not.


----------



## itzme

Dr_J said:


> Looking forward to giving it a try when I get home.
> 
> I never buy PPV, but I remember reading on here that the 3D PPV channel sometimes had issues with these receivers. I don't know if that's still the case or not.


If I had to venture a guess, its fixed. In fact that issue very well may've offered DTV some motivation to fix it in the first place. I don't blame 'em.

I don't ever buy PPVs either, but one of the ways I discovered this whole issue was because there were kids visiting and I was going to buy a PPV 3D for them.


----------



## garddog32

I'm not sure I have a hardware issues or not. I just got a 3D TV a couple of weeks ago. The first real show I watched in 3D was last night's Badger UNLV game on ESPN. For me, the sound was out of sync the entire game. Did anyone else happen to watch? Just wondering if it was an ESPN problem or a ME problem. 

I have a WD-82738 Mits direct HDMI attached to an H21. I have coax digital sound from the Mits to a Pioneer Elite receiver (sorry, don't remember the model number). I have not seen any other sound sync issues other than ESPN 3D. However, I've not watched enough 3D channels to know if I might be having the issues on all 3D channels.


----------



## RAD

garddog32 said:


> I'm not sure I have a hardware issues or not. I just got a 3D TV a couple of weeks ago. The first real show I watched in 3D was last night's Badger UNLV game on ESPN. For me, the sound was out of sync the entire game. Did anyone else happen to watch? Just wondering if it was an ESPN problem or a ME problem.
> 
> I have a WD-82738 Mits direct HDMI attached to an H21. I have coax digital sound from the Mits to a Pioneer Elite receiver (sorry, don't remember the model number). I have not seen any other sound sync issues other than ESPN 3D. However, I've not watched enough 3D channels to know if I might be having the issues on all 3D channels.


I would run the audio directly from the H21 to your receiver and see if that helps. Also, usually TV's don't pass through DD5.1 audio just 2.0, yours might just that most don't.


----------



## skylab

garddog32 said:


> I'm not sure I have a hardware issues or not. I just got a 3D TV a couple of weeks ago. The first real show I watched in 3D was last night's Badger UNLV game on ESPN. For me, the sound was out of sync the entire game. Did anyone else happen to watch? Just wondering if it was an ESPN problem or a ME problem.
> 
> I have a WD-82738 Mits direct HDMI attached to an H21. I have coax digital sound from the Mits to a Pioneer Elite receiver (sorry, don't remember the model number). I have not seen any other sound sync issues other than ESPN 3D. However, I've not watched enough 3D channels to know if I might be having the issues on all 3D channels.


I had this same sync problem as well last night. Edit: My receiver takes the audio directly from the DirecTV box via coax.


----------



## dettxw

So this espn 3D fix to change from the unrequired 720p SbS to 1080i, we're talking about seeing actual programming and not just the D logo?

Not that it matters that much to me as I'd already replaced my VSX-1020 with a Denon receiver. Guess I'd have the flexibility to switch it back in. 

I wonder what they were thinking in the first place outputting an optional format.


----------



## RAD

dettxw said:


> So this espn 3D fix to change from the unrequired 720p SbS to 1080i, we're talking about seeing actual programming and not just the D logo?


ESPN 3D went to be carried 24x7 a few weeks ago, but a lot of the programming is repeats. Check http://espn.go.com/3d/schedule.html for when there is live programming.


----------



## I WANT MORE

itzme said:


> SR did ask us to have a little faith. I hope you didn't rip it apart too much. :grin: Its nice to have all my devices going through my Pioneer 1020. That ESPN 720pSBS was the only quirk I ever experienced doing it that way.
> 
> I sure hope the industry retires that format!


I know but after shelling out a lot of $$$$ for the system I couldn't justify waiting for a fix so I did the route directly to tv fix. I'll just have to get in there and run it through the AVR again. It is a good thing.


----------



## spartanstew

Still can't get 3D on my Mits w/adapter. Worked fine a few months ago, but now, whenever I tune to a 3D station the audio is there, but just a black picture. HR21 to Mits adapter to display with audio from HR21 to Pio 1020 via optical.

3D works fine out of the Blu Ray player. 

Been like this for over a month. Might be an issue with the converter/adapter, but don't have a spare one handy to check.


----------



## itzme

dettxw said:


> So this espn 3D fix to change from the unrequired 720p SbS to 1080i, we're talking about seeing actual programming and not just the D logo?
> 
> Not that it matters that much to me as I'd already replaced my VSX-1020 with a Denon receiver. Guess I'd have the flexibility to switch it back in.
> 
> I wonder what they were thinking in the first place outputting an optional format.


There's no more dead-air logos. Its full time now and it will work through your VSX-1020. SatRacer was kind enough to elude that the fix was underway about 6 weeks or so ago. He wasn't in a position to tell us for sure, since I guess things could change. To me, it also sounded like ESPN 3D had a role in the 720p broadcasting issue.

Kudo's to DirecTV to providing the fix, when Pioneer wouldn't even entertain the issue and just wanted us to buy their 2011 model. Kudos to SatRacer for letting us know to have faith, instead of re-wiring or replacing our AVR systems.

I wonder if those who _were_ watching content 720p notice an improvement now that its 1080i?


----------



## dettxw

Thanks for the info. Now the old VSX-1020 is much more usable. 

I wonder just when did they make the change and how?

I'll for sure be watching Arizona @ OK State next Thursday in 3D.


----------



## itzme

dettxw said:


> Thanks for the info. Now the old VSX-1020 is much more usable.
> 
> I wonder just when did they make the change and how?
> 
> I'll for sure be watching Arizona @ OK State next Thursday in 3D.


As for when, I THINK today.
As for how, ESPN 3D (and DTV) are now sending their signal in 1080i instead of the 720p/SBS that was giving our VSX-1020s problems.


----------



## spartanstew

spartanstew said:


> Still can't get 3D on my Mits w/adapter. Worked fine a few months ago, but now, whenever I tune to a 3D station the audio is there, but just a black picture. HR21 to Mits adapter to display with audio from HR21 to Pio 1020 via optical.
> 
> 3D works fine out of the Blu Ray player.
> 
> Been like this for over a month. Might be an issue with the converter/adapter, but don't have a spare one handy to check.


Duh.

It had been so long that I had forgotten I had a dedicated activity button on my Harmony for 3D.

What I was attempting to do was watch 3D via the adapter but using the TV input that's connected to the A/V Receiver.

Working good now.


----------



## dettxw

itzme said:


> As for when, I THINK today.
> As for how, ESPN 3D (and DTV) are now sending their signal in 1080i instead of the 720p/SBS that was giving our VSX-1020s problems.


Don't you need to update your setup?


----------



## HiDefRev

OK, I rearranged my system this morning, and ESPN 3D is most definitely coming through my *Onkyo* with no problems !! *YIPPEE !!* . _BUT_ - the *3D PPV* channel is still stating that my 1080p *Panny* plasma cannot do 1080p/24 ( Give me a break !! ). So when is D* going to fix *THAT* problem ????? Until they do, I'll continue to order my 3D PPV movies from _HULU_ where they're $1 cheaper than D* anyway !! . *WAKE UP*, Directv !!! . :rant:


----------



## jmpfaff

itzme said:


> Is it possible that the signal on ESPN3D is now 1080i? I see boxing (2:25 pm ET) through my Pioneer VSX-1020 and my TV is saying its in 1080i, not the problematic 720pSBS.


Does anyone know if ESPN is actually originating the signal in 1080i vs DirecTV converting it to 1080i?

I saw some stuff a couple of months ago about ESPN buying equipment such that they could provide source material in 1080p...so I'm wondering if they might be changing their main channels up to a 1080 variant in the near future.


----------



## itzme

I believe the signal is being sent to DTV as 1080 now. On a related note, does anyone actually notice the higher res?


----------



## mcl77

just got a panasonic 3d plasma with 2 free glasses.
running that with hdmi to my hd dvr.

Must say the 3d looks amazing.
The tv came with a pair of free glasses and was only 999. No brainer for me.

Just had to run the software update on the tv in order for the 3d channel to come in.


----------



## Raddle

Here on the west coast ESPN 3D has been missing for a couple weeks. It is still missing this morning. Does anyone on the west coast have ESPN 3D?


----------



## RAD

Raddle said:


> Here on the west coast ESPN 3D has been missing for a couple weeks. It is still missing this morning. Does anyone on the west coast have ESPN 3D?


Since east and west coast all use the same satellite have you tried to reboot the receiver to see if it comes back in the guide? ALso check your signal reading on satellite 103(ca) transponder 13 which is where ESPN 3D is located.


----------



## Raddle

Thanks, RAD. I reset the receiver using the menu reset command but the channel is still missing. The only 3D channels I get are 103 and 104. The signal strength on satellite 103(ca) transponder 13 is 77%.


----------



## RAD

Raddle said:


> Thanks, RAD. I reset the receiver using the menu reset command but the channel is still missing. The only 3D channels I get are 103 and 104. The signal strength on satellite 103(ca) transponder 13 is 77%.


What about ch 107 (3net) you don't see that either? Are you using a Favorites list that doesn't have 106 and 107 in it?


----------



## Raddle

Well, it's possible though I don't think I made any changes before channels 105 - 107 disappeared two weeks ago. I will check when I get home.

I went to the online guide at the DirecTV web site. I can see the other channels there. I scheduled a recording of an ESPN 3D show. If I can see that when I get home then I guess I can receive the channel one way or another.


----------



## RAD

You can also try going to the My Equipment section on the DIRECTV web site, click on the Reauthorized My Receiver tab and select the STB that's having the problem. 

As for the favorites list, sometimes channels that you have in the list might drop off, especially after any software updates done to the receiver.


----------



## Raddle

OK, I reauthorized my receiver. I will check out the channels when I get home. I am encouraged by the fact I can see the channels in the web channel guide.


----------



## Raddle

I can receive ESPN 3D now! As RAD suggested, somehow my channel guide changed from "Channels I get" to "Favorite Channels." It's all good now. I am looking forward to viewing some live 3D games. Thanks, RAD


----------



## I WANT MORE

Thank-you D* and ESPN. I have returned to my original setup (routed through AVR) and everything is working properly. 
Wonder if the batteries for my glasses are still good.


----------



## mika911

I'm having a problem.

I have a Panasonic 3D Plasma that works great with the free DirecTV HD Channels, Blu-Ray 3Ds, and PS3 3D content. It also works fine on 1080p 2D Cinema PPV movies.

However, it will NOT play on channel 104 (3D Cinema PPV). 

I get a message that 1080p/24 is not supported even though my TV certainly supports this.

My AVR seems to be the issue, but all the other sources go through the AVR too.

It seems DirecTV's using a format on channel 104 that isn't terribly compatible?

Anyone else experience this and is there any hope DTV might sort it out over time?

Thank you.


----------



## dettxw

Well, I know they fixed the problem with espn 3D by switch from the optional 720p SbS format to 1080i. This helps those with AVRs like the Pioneer VSX-1020 that only supported the required 3D formats. I honestly can't say what's going on with the 104 3D Cinema PPV as I never use it (24-hour expiration is a deal breaker).
I'll try and check tonight to see what format they're using. 

In the mean time, what brand and model of AVR do you have?


----------



## mika911

dettxw said:


> Well, I know they fixed the problem with espn 3D by switch from the optional 720p SbS format to 1080i. This helps those with AVRs like the Pioneer VSX-1020 that only supported the required 3D formats. I honestly can't say what's going on with the 104 3D Cinema PPV as I never use it (24-hour expiration is a deal breaker).
> I'll try and check tonight to see what format they're using.
> 
> In the mean time, what brand and model of AVR do you have?


Sure I have a Pionner VSK 1021 K.


----------



## RAD

I tried the 1020 and IIRC it also had a problem saying the TV didn't support 1080p/24 in 3D mode. I'd recommend just running the DIRECTV receiver's HDMI output directly to the TV and then use an optical/coax connection from the STB to your 1021 for the audio. Since DD5.1 is the most that DIRECTV audio does you won't miss out by not using HDMI for the audio connection.


----------



## dettxw

mika911 said:


> Sure I have a Pionner VSK 1021 K.


The new 2011 version VSX-1021 is supposed to fix the non-compatibility problems with the VSX-1020.

You might try a direc TV conection to see what happens. If it works that way then return the Pioneer and buy a Denon which will work properly.

Not home yet to check the channel format.


----------



## mika911

dettxw said:


> The new 2011 version VSX-1021 is supposed to fix the non-compatibility problems with the VSX-1020.
> 
> You might try a direc TV conection to see what happens. If it works that way then return the Pioneer and buy a Denon which will work properly.
> 
> Not home yet to check the channel format.


Thanks.

Yeah, the direct TV connection seems to work. It's just rather frustrating. Why does DTV have to use some oddity format that is incompatible when anything else 1080p/24 including 3D runs through the receiver fine?

Sure appreciate that you replied so kindly. Will be interested to hear if you could see what this oddity of the format might be.


----------



## Beerstalker

It's not DirecTV's fault it's Pioneer's. DirecTV is using a standard 3D format that has been agreed upon by all the studios/manufacturers/etc. For some reason Pioneer hasn't been including support in their receivers for all of the standard 3D formats. The old models didn't support 720p sbs, and it appears that neither the old model nor the new model support 1080p sbs.


----------



## itzme

Beerstalker said:


> It's not DirecTV's fault it's Pioneer's. DirecTV is using a standard 3D format that has been agreed upon by all the studios/manufacturers/etc. For some reason Pioneer hasn't been including support in their receivers for all of the standard 3D formats. The old models didn't support 720p sbs...


True! It sin't DirecTV's fault. Its a confusing issue because even though it (the ESPN 3D issue) wasn't their fault, their actions did 'fix' it. And for that many of us thank them! But maybe 'fix' isn't a good word, because it suggests DTV broke it. In reality, it is Pioneer's fault.

All that said, I wonder if DTV will intervene to 'fix' the PPV issues, since that is a revenue stream.

One more time, my heartfelt thank you to DTV for 'fixing' an issue that wasn't their fault!


----------



## dettxw

I had like 2 minutes to try a recording of a 3D PPV movie last night.
The TV recognized it as 3D SbS, but the image was never actually anything other than 2D.
I was just previewing the movie, do you have to actually pay for a 3D PPV to get 3D?
Or is my Denon AVR-791 not supporting the format? Didn't think to check to see if it was 1080p or not.


----------



## scb2k

scb2k said:


> There is an Issue with ESPN 3D if you have your D* receiver connected through a Sony BDV-HZ970W Blu-ray Player.
> 
> All other 3D channels will work fine but ESPN 3D will only work if you plug your D* receiver directly to the TV.
> 
> My Tv is Samsung UN55D8000.


ESPN 3D now works with my Sony BDV-HZ970W


----------



## RAD

dettxw said:


> I had like 2 minutes to try a recording of a 3D PPV movie last night.
> The TV recognized it as 3D SbS, but the image was never actually anything other than 2D.
> I was just previewing the movie, do you have to actually pay for a 3D PPV to get 3D?
> Or is my Denon AVR-791 not supporting the format? Didn't think to check to see if it was 1080p or not.


If you didn't purchase the PPV then there should have been the do you want to buy message displayed. Whenever there is any graphic that the receiver outputs then all you get is 2D. Example, hit the blue button to bring up the mini guide, while it's displayed all you'll see is 2D.


----------



## dettxw

That explains it then. I didn't want to watch the movie, only test the function.


----------



## mika911

itzme said:


> True! It sin't DirecTV's fault. Its a confusing issue because even though it (the ESPN 3D issue) wasn't their fault, their actions did 'fix' it. And for that many of us thank them! But maybe 'fix' isn't a good word, because it suggests DTV broke it. In reality, it is Pioneer's fault.
> 
> All that said, I wonder if DTV will intervene to 'fix' the PPV issues, since that is a revenue stream.
> 
> One more time, my heartfelt thank you to DTV for 'fixing' an issue that wasn't their fault!


I will believe everyone who claims it isn't DirecTV's fault as I have the most respect for everyone here.

I only wonder why if it is always the A/V receivers fault why everything else 3D and 1080p work.


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## fleckrj

mika911 said:


> I will believe everyone who claims it isn't DirecTV's fault as I have the most respect for everyone here.
> 
> I only wonder why if it is always the A/V receivers fault why everything else 3D and 1080p work.


Beanstalker already answered your question. There are multiple industry agreed standards for 3D broadcasts. Some A/V receivers can handle all of the standards, but some only handle some of them. If connecting the DirecTV receiver directly to the TV works but going through your A/V receiver does not work, then it is the fault of the A/V receiver.


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## Beerstalker

DirecTV has used 3 different formats for it's 3D programming. 720p Side By Side, 1080i Side By Side, and 1080p (24 frames per second) Side By Side. These are all standard formats that have been designed for cable TV/Sat TV 3D format transmission. The side by side format is used to reduce the amount of bandwidth it takes for the 3D signal.

Most of DirecTVs 3D programming is 1080i SBS. That seems to work with pretty much all 3D capable equipment. 

Originally ESPN 3D was being sent out at 720p SBS. This format caused a lot of issues with various equipment, one of the most common being last years Pioneer 3D capable AV Receivers. This year's Pioneer AV receivers have supposedly gained compatibility for 720p SBS. However, recently it seems like ESPN 3D has switched to start using 1080i SBS just like most of the other DirecTV 3D programming. I'm not sure if DirecTV made this change or if ESPN did.

Some (or all?) 3D PPV on DirecTV is evidently using 1080p (24) SBS. This also appears to be causing issues with this year and last years Pioneer AV receivers. 

I'm wondering if a person were to change their DirecTV receiver's settings to disable 1080p output if it would send out the 3D PPV as 1080i SBS instead, and then work with these Pioneer Receivers?


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## David Carmichael

I don't know where else to post this.. but I first thought that my receiver (HR22-100) did not see this TV as a 3D TV, but I guess that it had to be on and the receiver connected for a about thirty minutes before the receiver saw the TV as a 3D set and now works every time I turn it on.
Kind of KOOL!

avid


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## boukengreen

My Grandparents just got a 3D tv Wednesday and we are loving it saw a clip of the Daytona July race and was amazed at the PQ of it I have officaly swapped my views on 3D i wish they would get more channels soon.


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## teachsac

1080p/24 SbS *is not* a mandatory format. Mandatory formats for 1080p are frame packed and Top/Bottom. I will not let D* off of the hook for broadcasting in an optional format.

S~


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## Laxguy

teachsac said:


> 1080p/24 SbS *is not* a mandatory format. Mandatory formats for 1080p are frame packed and Top/Bottom. I will not let D* off of the hook for broadcasting in an optional format.
> 
> S~


Could you flesh this out a bit for those of us not quite so jargon-oriented? I will go 3D at some point.


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## teachsac

Laxguy said:


> Could you flesh this out a bit for those of us not quite so jargon-oriented? I will go 3D at some point.


The 1.4a mandatory 3D formats are:

•1080p @ 23.98/24Hz - Frame Packing (Blu-ray movies) 
•720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz - Frame Packing (gaming) 
•[email protected] 50 or 59.94/60Hz - Side-by-Side 
•720p @ 50 or 59.94/60Hz - Top-Bottom 
•1080p @ 23.97/24Hz - Top-Bottom

S~


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## Laxguy

Thanks, Teach. 

Would it be easy to say what this means in terms of PQ on our home sets? And are bit rates very different for each spec.?


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## code4code5

I use an hd capture card to record items onto my computers hard disk and off the DVR's disk since it has a limited capacity. The card used component and optical inputs. 

I have a working 3D setup downstairs from HR21 to an AVR to a Samsung 3DTV. If I were to hook up component cables at the same time, will I get the sbs image through my capture card? My TV will replay sbs recordings in 3D without any issue. 

Just curious before I move the pc downstairs to try and record 3D content.


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## youritdepo

First off Directv gave me a non 3d reciever the first attempt, second attempt a hr21-700 dvr 

The tv is a vizio M3d421sr Been told its exactly same as the supported M3d420sr (according to vizios tech its a difference in plants)

Again the m3d420sr is listed in there site.

Direct to the tv gets 3d channels except for the ppv 104 channel. Been fighting with them for a week about this. Not that i want ppv i just wanted the option. So far only thing they have done is give me bill credits up to 30 a month off go figure

They are goign to try again with recievers on sunday but I was hoping to find out what reciever works best right now i have an hr21-700 Even though they said I should have gotton a HR24 

They also claimed in my market area there is a new ui and update for HD issues comming the next few days, I bet it kills it completely.

For now only on 104 i get error 797 resolution not supported when the tv can more than handel it.


Courage to all that fight for what was promissed.


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## teachsac

Ch 104 uses a completely different format than the other channels. N3D, ESPN3d, and 3Net all use 1080i SbS, which is a mandatory format. PPV (104) uses 1080p/24 SbS which is an optional format and is possibly not supported by the Vizio. Many sets do not. Mandatory format is 1080p T/B. The only thing you can try is to manually set your tv to SbS. I do not think changing out receivers will make things better or worse. It is nice having the HR24 for other benefits, though. I've been fighting them for almost a year on that one. Good luck.

S~


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## youritdepo

Thanks to everyone here that helped me with testing and my argument with directv.

After reading all this trying everything even talking to Vizio (manufactor of my tv) I eventuly had directv give notice of issues even though they supported the tv. 

For some reason the NEW UI download fixed the rest of my issues. The download was only available to me a few days ago. This made my tv a Vizio M3d421sr working on a hr21 dvr. They also replaced the box for all my issues with a hr24 dvr.

It took me almost a month to express my issues just to find out that I did not matter and it was luck that the firmware fixed it.


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## mx6bfast

Are any of ya'll using monoprice hdmi cables? Just purchased a 3DTV and am getting a free upgrade from my HR20 which I should get hopefully tomorrow. I currently have a Monster (yes I know) cable for the #D blu-ray player because my tv is 240 mhz. I will need a cable for D* and don't want to spend another $80. Would monoprice hdmi cables work fine for 3D? These in particular?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=3661&seq=1&format=2

or

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024012&p_id=4158&seq=1&format=3


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## sigma1914

mx6bfast said:


> Are any of ya'll using monoprice hdmi cables? Just purchased a 3DTV and am getting a free upgrade from my HR20 which I should get hopefully tomorrow. I currently have a Monster (yes I know) cable for the #D blu-ray player because my tv is 240 mhz. I will need a cable for D* and don't want to spend another $80. Would monoprice hdmi cables work fine for 3D? These in particular?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=3661&seq=1&format=2
> 
> or
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024012&p_id=4158&seq=1&format=3


Yes they'll work. They'll also work on the 3D BluRay.


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## NR4P

Agree with Sigma. Monoprice will work fine. Have them on my 3D TV. 
No need to pay Monster prices.


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## RAD

I've used a number of 'cheap' Monoprice cables and any other HDMI Cale I've got laying around and have not run into any problems. IIRC DIRECTV has said if the cable works with 1080p programming you'll be fine with their 3D channels.


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## code4code5

I use a Monoprice 40' HDMI cable that works great. Only paid $20 for it, too. They can't be beat.


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## Phil17108

I have the 65 inch Vizio with 30 feet of the high speed monoprice cables with port savers using an hr23 and it works great.


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## txfeinbergs

David Carmichael said:


> I don't know where else to post this.. but I first thought that my receiver (HR22-100) did not see this TV as a 3D TV, but I guess that it had to be on and the receiver connected for a about thirty minutes before the receiver saw the TV as a 3D set and now works every time I turn it on.
> Kind of KOOL!
> 
> avid


I actually had to do something similar to get my Pioneer Receiver to work (2011 model). I kept getting a message that my Samsung UN60D8000 TC could not display 1080i in 3D. I then rerouted the HDMI cable directly from the DirecTV receiver to the TV and that worked. I then rerouted it back through the AMP, and it now works. I even powered off everything and turne it back on and it still worked. I think a flag had to be set in the DirecTV receiver that wasn't getting set while going through the Pioneer receiver.

Of course now that I have found this thread, I guess I need to go back and try the 1080P 24 frame PPV channel. If that doesn't work, I will have to try the same thing to get the flag set.


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## spanishannouncetable

I just installed a Toshiba 42tl515u passive 3Dtv.

It 
is
AWESOME 

240hz
Built-in WiFi
Youtube, Netflix, VuDu and more out of the box
4 pairs of glasses (same as those from the theater, so you can stock up on extras at Star Wars this weekend :lol: )
Works great with n3D, 3net and ESPN3D
PS3 3D games FTW !!!

and best of all, I got this $1100 msrp 3Dtv from Wal-mart for less than $650 :hurah:
and sold my 3-year-old Vizio 37" for $250, so only $400 to upgrade :hurah: :hurah:

If you haven't gone over to 3D yet, get one of these before they run out !


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## rahchgo

I have a new Vizio (M3D470KD) 47" Full HD + 3D TV with Smart TV. This is a passive 3D TV. I'm very pleased with this TV and it works with all the DirecTV 3D channels. One small issue is changing channels. If I switch from/to a 3D channel to/from a 2D channel that is broadcast in 1080i, the set does not "see" the change from/to 2D. If I switch from/to a 2D channel that is is 720p or 480p to/from a 3D channel (always 1080i) the TV recognizes the change and adjusts appropriately. This would appear to be a HDMI handshake issue.


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