# R15s killing my dsl?



## illushinz (Feb 22, 2006)

I did a bit of searching, but I'm either doing something wrong, or there isn't much info on the technical stuff. Anybody know what frequencies ride on the RG6 from the dish to the DVR? Also, any info, documentation, links about the dial up procedures and functions. My R15 is killing my DSL connection, every time I plug it in. I've tried DSL filters on both ends of the line to the DVR, and in both directions, even tried one on each end... LOL. No luck.

Any info would be a great help!! Thanks.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Honestly..

Don't connect the R15s to the phone line then... they don't need it, unless you want to purchase PPV via remote.

DSL is a very touchy technology...
When I did have DSL... I had the best results by splitting and filitering it right at the junction box... 

IIRC... for filters to work... you have to have it on EVERY single jack in your house. In use or not, except for the actual DSL connection..


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

illushinz said:


> I did a bit of searching, but I'm either doing something wrong, or there isn't much info on the technical stuff. Anybody know what frequencies ride on the RG6 from the dish to the DVR? Also, any info, documentation, links about the dial up procedures and functions. My R15 is killing my DSL connection, every time I plug it in. I've tried DSL filters on both ends of the line to the DVR, and in both directions, even tried one on each end... LOL. No luck.
> 
> Any info would be a great help!! Thanks.


What does the RG6 have to do with your DSL connection? I doubt any signals are crossing over from RG6 to a phone line.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Honestly..
> 
> Don't connect the R15s to the phone line then... they don't need it, unless you want to purchase PPV via remote.
> 
> ...


With most current DSL providers, you only need line filters on teh phone jacks in use, not ALL the phone jacks on the same circuit


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Works fine on mine and I run it 24/7 due to weather station.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I have Verizon DSL and you need filters on every phone line in the house. I found this out as I missed one and had poor speeds and when I called Verizon they asked me to double check and sure enough I missed one.


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## Two Good (Feb 1, 2006)

Lost my DSL after Dish install in August. Check all the filters and found the installer had plugged my 522 into the DSL side of the filter.


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## speedy4022 (Jan 26, 2004)

I have DSL and no problems but I do have a line filter hooked to the R-15.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Verizon DSL with filters was hooked up to R15. Speed tests showed a marginal slowing enough the wife did complain about it. Never had that problem before with DVRs, and it could have been something else. 

Since deacticating the R15 the DSL is back to normal. I just would not hook it up to the phone line unless you are ordering a PPV (as said above).


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## wishfull1 (Nov 22, 2005)

My R-15 is causing trouble with my DSL too. If I have it connected (with filter of course), my DSL drops it connection every 2 to 2 1/2 hours. I can see the disco's in the Speedstream DSL modem log. This has been happening since December, the same time I got the R15. SBC techs have been watching my line closely, they say to look inside the house for the problem. They were right. Disconnect the phone line from the R15, disconnects stop. Reconnect it, and the disco's happen like clockwork. Previous Samsung and Tivo receivers did not effect the DSL.

I wonder if it has the extended warrenty with Robert and VE?

Cheers


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Just disconnect the R15 from the phone line...

Doesn't need it, unless you are buying PPV via remote.


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## wishfull1 (Nov 22, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Just disconnect the R15 from the phone line...
> 
> Doesn't need it, unless you are buying PPV via remote.


Yes... but, the wife really likes the caller ID. It should have no effect on the DSL. I have tried every one of the 3 R15's we have, with different filters, DSL modem and phone lines. All do the same. None of the other receivers we have used in the past do this.

I had hopes for the R15, but this is growing tiresome.

When my wife use the R15, I always hear...."What the ....., ah common JUNK! :lol:


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## skitzel (Mar 4, 2006)

Unplug all lines from telephones and filters. Then try to use your DSL. Then if it works properly reconnect one filter and phone at a time testing the DSL to see if each addition causes DSL to work improperly. Keep in mind to only do one at a time, keep adding filters and phones until you find which filter or phone is faulty. If you find a defective filter replace by asking DSL vendor to send one to you. I really hope this helps, I think this is a very good way to troubleshoot your problem.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Hmmm...

I don't know why it would be doing that, as it affects some DSL... not others...

Even if you put the filter directly on it?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

It doesnt make any sense at all since those R15's are just using regular old analog modem technology....there is some other underlying issue here that noone has hit on yet. Of course it doesnt help that the R15 has become such a popular punching bag with internet crowd..like anything else these days...if it doesnt work perfectly out of teh box, or even if it doesnt work exactly how the irate poster thinks it should work, it gets posted all over every forum they can find , related or not....


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

CCarncross said:


> It doesnt make any sense at all since those R15's are just using regular old analog modem technology....there is some other underlying issue here that noone has hit on yet.


Could the R15 by anychance have DLS modem tech in them or might they try (for some wierd reason) to network them over that? I know it sounds stupid, and I doubt it but stranger things have happened.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Given the multiple flavors of DSL out there... (hence why you can purchase your own DSL modem in most markets, but you can with the Cable modems)

I highly doubt it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

CCarncross said:


> It doesnt make any sense at all since those R15's are just using regular old analog modem technology....there is some other underlying issue here that noone has hit on yet.


The R15 (as well as any other device that features CID) is always "listening" for the CID signal. Old devices simply waited for an AC voltage to show up (ringing). This problem could well represent a design flaw with the receiver since so many of them exhibit the symptoms. I'd be willing to wager that it may not pass muster with respect to its FCC Part 68 registration specifications which state that the device may not interfere with certain other devices.


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## Bud33 (Jan 26, 2006)

harsh said:


> . I'd be willing to wager that it may not pass muster with respect to its FCC Part 68 registration specifications which state that the device may not interfere with certain other devices.


I don't think it would have been approved for sale if it hadn't passed the FCC tests.


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## wishfull1 (Nov 22, 2005)

The R15 just doesn't like to play nice with my SBC DSL here. I don't know what the cause is, but whenever it is plugged it, I get regular disconnects. I have tried it by itself, different R15, different room phone line, different filter and different Efficient Networks SBC DSL Modem (5100a 5100b and a new 4100). If none of the R15's are plugged in to the phone, my connection stays up and solid for weeks on end. 

Some people may have the same problem, but don't even know it. As you can see from my modem log, it is only disconnected for 12 seconds. Happens every 2 to 2 1/2 hours consistently. My boys complained about their XBox 360 getting booted. Thats how I found the problem.

Here is a sample of my modem log. Link down occurs every 2 to 2 1/2 hours as long as any R15 is plugged in anywhere. This includes straight from the network interface test jack outside, to filter, to dsl and R15.


+004 days 20:22:39 E |DSL |Link Down

+004 days 20:22:39 E |DSL |State: WAITING

+004 days 20:22:43 E |DSL |State: INITIALIZING

+004 days 20:22:51 E |DSL |HYBRID 2

+004 days 20:22:51 E |DSL |Link up 22 US 512 DS 3008 (FAST:G.dmt)

I have tried every combination or it by itself. It has everything to do with the R15 and nothing to do with my new house, new wiring, new filters, new SBC modems and so on. I have tested and watched this problem for months. Along with SBC techs watching my line remotely. It IS the R15.

Cheers


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## wishfull1 (Nov 22, 2005)

And I'm not beating down the R15. I like it more than the TiVo. Its a bit like the UTV. And I loved the UTV dearly.

I've had the R15 since release. With time, it will probably get better.

Cheers


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## beakersloco (Mar 7, 2006)

I just got satelite tv and an R15 dvr about a week ago and have dont the the problem. 

But I had a separate phone line run just for my dsl modem and I dont have to run filters on any of my phones. I have not had any issues with my DSL since getting satelite so you might want to consider getting an extra line run


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bud33 said:


> I don't think it would have been approved for sale if it hadn't passed the FCC tests.


The FCC has done a VERY poor job of enforcing rules to manufacturers on most anything over the past few years. They pretty much bend over to whatever big business wants. They don't really do any testing of their own, but rely on the data presented by the manufacturer for certification.

Now, let there be a "wardrobe malfunction" and see them spring into action.

Carl


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## jatfill (Mar 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Just disconnect the R15 from the phone line...
> 
> Doesn't need it, unless you are buying PPV via remote.


I just got the R15, and have ordered a movie via remote without a phone line on, just for the record...


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

jatfill said:


> I just got the R15, and have ordered a movie via remote without a phone line on, just for the record...


Yes it has something like a $10 amount or so spending limit that you can use up, once thats used you cannot purchase any further programs until it phones home and then updates itself.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

jatfill said:


> I just got the R15, and have ordered a movie via remote without a phone line on, just for the record...


Great, now you owe for a PPV that will not post to your account...Why do people pull this stuff? If you are going to order via remote, connect the phone lines...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

CCarncross said:


> Great, now you owe for a PPV that will not post to your account...Why do people pull this stuff? If you are going to order via remote, connect the phone lines...


I agree CC. Connect the line for one call so you pay for what you received, or keep your line disconnected and order via the Web. There is NO need to be proud of the fact you received one, two or three PPVs free. That just means the rest of us end up paying more.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

There is some limit, either dollar or time, when it will stop allowing you to order via remote.

Also, whenever you do connect a phone line, it will report all the ppv's it has stored.

Carl


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

carl6 said:


> There is some limit, either dollar or time, when it will stop allowing you to order via remote.
> 
> Also, whenever you do connect a phone line, it will report all the ppv's it has stored.
> 
> Carl


There is a $ limit built into the card before it rejects new purchases. IMHO it should be much closer to 1$ than it is.


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## jatfill (Mar 10, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I agree CC. Connect the line for one call so you pay for what you received, or keep your line disconnected and order via the Web. There is NO need to be proud of the fact you received one, two or three PPVs free. That just means the rest of us end up paying more.


Sorry, I wasn't trying to boast or get a "freebie"; I'm actually brand new to satellite service & wasn't aware I had to connect the phone line, the installer person didn't do it. The only thing the manual said about it is in reference to the caller ID feature.

I looked at my online statement after reading this & sure enough, I don't see any movie charges. Lesson learned  I don't have any problems paying for what I watch. I assumed since I haven't gotten any warnings or message about connecting a phone that it wasn't required for this model... my mistake. I've ordered like 3 movies now, I got a coupon from DirecTV for one & we just got two more this weekend.

Aside, it does seem odd to me that this unit can update itself over the air, but requires a dialup connection in order to say "yes I want to watch a movie." :grin:

Thanks for the info, vets... I'll be sure to connect a line to get things straightened out. Anyone have good/bad luck with those wireless phone jacks? If I could use one of those I think I could leave it connected 24/7.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

jatfill said:


> Aside, it does seem odd to me that this unit can update itself over the air, but requires a dialup connection in order to say "yes I want to watch a movie." :grin:


Just so you know the R15 only downloads off the sat it doesn't upload any info at all. That's why it needs the phone line for PPV, but I could see how someone would think that. I think D*'s going to have a lot of people that won't find that out untill the order another PPV and they hit there limit. Come to think of it that's probably why they try to charge you $20 for a new access card so people don't abuse the flaw in the system.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Just so you know the R15 only downloads off the sat it doesn't upload any info at all. That's why it needs the phone line for PPV, but I could see how someone would think that. I think D*'s going to have a lot of people that won't find that out untill the order another PPV and they hit there limit. Come to think of it that's probably why they try to charge you $20 for a new access card so people don't abuse the flaw in the system.


This is one of the main reason they need to add network support to these boxes. It would be much nicer to hook the box up to my home network and have it tell DirecTV whatever it needs to then to have a phone line hooked up to it. For one thing I use Vonage so I haven't had a land line in a LONG time.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> This is one of the main reason they need to add network support to these boxes. It would be much nicer to hook the box up to my home network and have it tell DirecTV whatever it needs to then to have a phone line hooked up to it. For one thing I use Vonage so I haven't had a land line in a LONG time.


So you'd open up your home firewall so the R15 has open ports to/from anything? Trusting that the DTV security folks have properly tested their software when the application folks are having a hard time getting the unit to dependably record shows is a tad risky.

I have all of my DTivos networked but none of them can get outside the firewall and nothing can get to them from the outside.

As soon as they open a port and a network connection, hacking (for good or bad) becomes 1000% easier.

You can be running Windows, Linux or anything else and there are new threats discovered daily as well as new patches issued to address those threats. I don't see how any of these DTV units could ever be expected to communicate with the outside world via the internet securely.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> So you'd open up your home firewall so the R15 has open ports to/from anything? Trusting that the DTV security folks have properly tested their software when the application folks are having a hard time getting the unit to dependably record shows is a tad risky.
> 
> I have all of my DTivos networked but none of them can get outside the firewall and nothing can get to them from the outside.
> 
> ...


My TiVo has been able to call outside from the day they activated Networking on. No one comes back in without something inside starting the convo as no ports are forwarded.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:
 

> My TiVo has been able to call outside from the day they activated Networking on. No one comes back in without something inside starting the convo as no ports are forwarded.


What port does your Tivo use to perform this call? What port is the return path? Do you have a cable/dsl modem with firewall capability? Is it turned on? If yes, are those ports open?

If you're secure with a device accessing the internet without it's own software firewall that's your decision. Now version 6.2 & up (maybe 4.x also) does have a light firewall which most everyone disables when they hack the unit for local access.

Even though your Tivo is initiating a session to the outside world, without a properly updated firewall and security system you run the risk of someone hijacking a session. I'm not saying the threat is great, but it is there. As I said, new threats are discovered every day. I continually receive updates every day or two from the various security/anti-virus programs I run.

If DTV were to enable networking on the R15, via a USB device, maybe even wireless, are all customers going to know how to protect their R15 and other PCs inside their perimeter firewall from attacks?

My point here is that given the current state of R15 software, given the technical level of most installers and given the technical level of most customers, I cannot believe enabling broadband access for PPV or VOD to be anything but a huge security risk.


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## jatfill (Mar 10, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> What port does your Tivo use to perform this call? What port is the return path? Do you have a cable/dsl modem with firewall capability? Is it turned on? If yes, are those ports open?
> 
> If you're secure with a device accessing the internet without it's own software firewall that's your decision. Now version 6.2 & up (maybe 4.x also) does have a light firewall which most everyone disables when they hack the unit for local access.
> 
> ...


customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2073.htm

The Windows ports appear to be internal to your network only.

The TiVo model is actually quite good in the network end. I had a standalone 80 hour Series 2 unit before I switched to satellite (sold it after I realized the new DTV unit I got wasn't TiVo). The out of the box configuration is telephone, for the (I agree, large) user base that isn't technical enough to do networking.

If you have a router between you and the world, I don't believe you have to open these. The guide data isn't even mentioned in the troubleshooting page, I saw port 123 mentioned on a forums post a while back, but I never opened outside ports on my router & my unit always downloaded just fine.

For the more technical people who know where to look, the networking option works extremely well and you get several nice extra features in the process.. streaming music and photos from your PC to your TV, transfer recordings to/from your computers, and some (not well developed yet) subscription based content pushed to your DVR on demand.

I think there's a huge opportunity for the R15, and judging by all the USB ports on the unit, I would guess (and hope) that's exactly where they are heading.

I would personally be completely comfortable with setting up a "least priviledge" hole into my home network to be able to free up the telephone line & maybe get some extra features in the process... more HD space, etc

I do also agree, however.. that the engineering folks need to get it together before my comfort level would be high enough. My R15 seems to have trouble with Series Link.. only with my wife's soap operas, ironically enough. I have nicknamed it the "perfect DVR"  If it would only quit doing Oprah now, too... lol


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

jatfill said:


> customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2073.htm
> 
> The Windows ports appear to be internal to your network only.
> 
> ...


I'm kinda getting off topic here but, here's what I'm worried about:

1) Your Tivo/R15/DVR wants to call home for some update or VOD via broadband. No problem you allow access to abc.zzz.com through your firewall.
2) Some playful young lad (lets call him Timmy) hijacks the DNS entry for abc.zzz.com and points it to his server farm overseas in HackerHeavenstan. Once there his server does a little looking around to determine what OS your DVR maybe running and then forwards your session to another program that's chomping at the bit to try a few known security exploits for the platform your Tivo/R15/DVR is running.
3) Bang, with a quick buffer overflow Timmy and his friends have root access to your DVR. They upload a few Trojan programs and start those running. Since your DVR is behind your firewall it has clear access to any PCs or other networked devices in your house.
4) Timmy's other programs find their way into your PC and your kids PC via other known exploits and upload more Trojans.
5) Before you know it all sorts of your personal info is on its way to Timmy and his friends. Next your ISP cuts you off because your IP address has been reported as a SPAMMER and has been caught in many DOS attacks on large corporations. All this because your DVR had Internet access.

Now, is this "out there"? Sure. Does it happen? Not on DVRs yet as there are limited numbers of DVRs connected to the 'net but it does happen on PCs. One has to be very careful with networked devices that are allowed to connect to the Internet. I take the stance that I do not allow Internet access to any device I don't have complete control over. Am I paranoid? Sure! 

Having network access to your DVRs internally is great and I can't live without it. MRV, HMO and video streaming to my internal servers are fantastic. But external access? Too many ifs right now.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

But what if they don't go via DNS entries... and go via IP and port numbers.

That are fed to the unit via the SAT stream? So if they change they are immediately updated... (basically if you want a VOD, the IP and port number for that system is part of the "guide" data for the vod)

Don't get me wrong... I am not against protecting the systems...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But what if they don't go via DNS entries... and go via IP and port numbers.
> 
> That are fed to the unit via the SAT stream? So if they change they are immediately updated... (basically if you want a VOD, the IP and port number for that system is part of the "guide" data for the vod)
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I am not against protecting the systems...


That would definitely be an option.

Specific IP numbers can be a problem when you're talking about a high level of traffic compared to a DNS entry pointing to a pool of servers, but that can be handled. The problem I would have though is that a changing IP/port scheme would then be blocked by my firewall. I'd setup abc.zzz.com port yy (or IP 111.222.333.444 port 55) as a permit rule for the DVR. But as soon as that changes the DVR would be blocked from the new IP/port combination.

I know I'm more picky about this stuff than most others. But I want to see much more quality and testing in the software loaded on these units before I let them through my internet door unimpeded.

But then you start talking about VODs. Securing that transaction between the provider and the DVR is a discussion for it's own thread. There you have to be talking VPN with keys possibly coming from the SAT after being requested via broadband. Yet would today's DVRs have the processor power or memory to efficiently handle a VPN connection? Interesting discussion there.


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