# Bug in SMX Ch104



## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

When I tune to channel 104 Sports Mix Channel and highlight ESPN in Yellow then push the Select button to goto ESPN I am briefly taken to ESPN then it switches to channel 201 DTV Basics.

Anyone Else having this issue?

Keith


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Just tested it and it went right to the channel for me but ESPN is 206 here.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Mine went to 206 also. It took quite a few seconds to do that, but I did get to 206.

Can you tune to 206 directly? Isn't 201 a channel you'll get pushed to when you can't receive the channel you try? Is ESPN in your package?


----------



## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

Yes I can tune directly to the channels but when I try to tune to them via the SMX channel I get redirected from ESPN to DTV Basic. It actually tunes to ESPN for a few second then changes channels to 201.

Keith



Wolffpack said:


> Mine went to 206 also. It took quite a few seconds to do that, but I did get to 206.
> 
> Can you tune to 206 directly? Isn't 201 a channel you'll get pushed to when you can't receive the channel you try? Is ESPN in your package?


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

It may just be a bug in the program and not with you. I would probably just reset and try again later.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolff I agree it was sort of slow, I also found it pretty painful to even get the box down to the ESPN channel. Don't remember the Active stuff being that hard to move around in. I just tested it again to make sure I didn't just get lucky. Went to 104 Selected ESPN hit Select, it thought for about 2 seconds then switched to 206 and stayed there. Now what was more ironic is the EXACT same show was on that was on last night when I tested it. :lol:


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

You may have figured it out. They just play a short loop on those MIX channels. That explains the problem I have on the News MIX. I see something that looks interesting, arrow to that channel and press SELECT. By the time that channel comes up full screen it always seems to be on the next story.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> You may have figured it out. They just play a short loop on those MIX channels. That explains the problem I have on the News MIX. I see something that looks interesting, arrow to that channel and press SELECT. By the time that channel comes up full screen it always seems to be on the next story.


Well ESPN is also very bad about having the same stories over and over and over again throught the day so I may have just been to the channel at the right time.


----------



## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> You may have figured it out. They just play a short loop on those MIX channels. That explains the problem I have on the News MIX. I see something that looks interesting, arrow to that channel and press SELECT. By the time that channel comes up full screen it always seems to be on the next story.


Really? Because I love the interactive capability with the News Mix channel. I'm a news junkie, and I'll just leave it on there and scroll through the channels to get the audio feed. I noticed that it takes a couple seconds if I try to go to one of the news channels from the New Mix channel (at that point I generally just go there directly - it's faster), but if I'm scouring for news stories, just keeping up the mix channel and alternating the audio feed is an awesome feature. I didn't notice a loop on what was being broadcast. It may be different on Sports Mix, though.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Just joking jpl.

Want to let the OP know he's not crazy. I have this same problem right now with the News Mix (102). Doesn't matter which of the channels I select it changes to that channel for a second or two then changes to 201. Also, if I press GUIDE/LIST/MENU or INFO while on 102 the PIP window changes to 201. It's also happening on the other Mix channels. I guess it's time for a RESET.

Can't test Sports Mix as it has the stupid Blackout message on. Which I cannot figure out why. I'm in Phoenix AZ and the message says that Sports Mix is blacked out due to Mets @ Cubs on ESPN at 2:15 ET. That game hasn't even started yet.

*EDIT: A little more info. If I enter a channel number directly from a Mix channel it changes to 201 for less than a second and then changes to the channel I entered. At that time if I press PREV I get switched back to 201.*


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

They are telling you NO ONE should have to bear the agony of watching that. :lol:

J/K folks


----------



## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Just joking jpl.
> 
> Want to let the OP know he's not crazy. I have this same problem right now with the News Mix (102). Doesn't matter which of the channels I select it changes to that channel for a second or two then changes to 201. Also, if I press GUIDE/LIST/MENU or INFO while on 102 the PIP window changes to 201. It's also happening on the other Mix channels. I guess it's time for a RESET.
> 
> ...


Should have figured it was a joke. But with all the weird behavior that's been reported about the R15, it really didn't surprise me that you would have seen programming loop like that on yours...


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Reset fixed the problem. Mix channels working fine now.

*EDIT: Well that didn't last long. Bang, same problem and I RESET it less than 2 hours ago. Bummer.*


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Reset fixed the problem. Mix channels working fine now.
> 
> *EDIT: Well that didn't last long. Bang, same problem and I RESET it less than 2 hours ago. Bummer.*


Hmm, another function of the R15 that works ok at first and then gets a kink in it if you use it alot. Maybe this will be the one that will let the R15 Team be able to figure out why it's doing this. At least this one hasn't locked up the system... yet.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Here's another little problem with the Mix channels under 10C8.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=60630


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

I couldn't imagine this being a problem with the box or the middleware because the application functions, but it doesn't function properly.

It could very well be a problem with the application that can easily be fixed on DirecTV's side. I would call DirecTV and tell them about this problem. May get fixed faster.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Ran into this again. Appears to be linked somehow to using the search feature. If I RESET and stay out of SEARCH things run fine. If I perform keyword searches this bug pops up it's ugly little head, requiring another RESET.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack, I've got to ask (since I don't use search that much). Do some of you past search sometimes come up as things you didn't search for. I've gone into the recent searches and It will have channel 2 news or other werid things that I know I didn't search for. I almost think that it's stuff that it doesn' have the guide data anymore and it just grabs another program and replaces it into the search.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Yes, I've seen problems where hits are returned that I cannot see how they were qualified. As I've mentioned before I see more instances in which I get a different number of hits when running the same search repeatedly.

I think you are correct with a problem associated with the exclusion logic in the search function. I know for a fact that searching on recent searches right after a RESET will return false hits and false series. The recent search logic assumes it will find a hit an starts listing what ever is next alphabetically without verifying that it is indeed a match.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I was talking about the recent searches changing there name not the results. ie. I searched for South Park (I doubt this would work with South Park) but then I go into recent searches and southpark is not there it's replaced by something else. Have you seen that happen at all?

Either way I do think it has something to do with the programs not being in the guide anymore.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> I was talking about the recent searches changing there name not the results. ie. I searched for South Park (I doubt this would work with South Park) but then I go into recent searches and southpark is not there it's replaced by something else. Have you seen that happen at all?
> 
> Either way I do think it has something to do with the programs not being in the guide anymore.


Yes, I did see that under 10B8 2-3 times but have not seen it yet under 10C8.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Yes, I did see that under 10B8 2-3 times but have not seen it yet under 10C8.


Good it's not just me. I thought that I was crazy or that my wife did a search (but some of the stuff there was no way she did it)


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

for some reason I recall most of the "replacement" entries being Spanish shows that I couldn't even pronounce.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Same here and other weird stuff. I guess it's not a true search it must some how key into the guide data and if it doesn't find something it latches on to another program that is in the guide. That's probably why a search that doesn't return any results doesn't go into recent searches. I know on the UTV even if a match didn't come up I could do a recent search with it or setup as an auto record. Does the R15 let you do an auto record on things that it doesn't find any results on?


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Has anyone else run into a problem where the audio playing on one of the MIX channels doesn't match the channel highlighted? I've seen this 3 times so far. It usually starts with a pause when moving from one channel to another and when it catches up it's playing the wrong audio. Moving to a different channel and back corrects the problem.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I have noticed that on my D11 Flip Top every once and a while.
Never noticed it on the R15


----------



## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

Wolffpack,

I got the same problem. Sometimes it seems like the system is too slow to keep up with the highlighted window in yellow and is a selection behind.

Keith



Wolffpack said:


> Has anyone else run into a problem where the audio playing on one of the MIX channels doesn't match the channel highlighted? I've seen this 3 times so far. It usually starts with a pause when moving from one channel to another and when it catches up it's playing the wrong audio. Moving to a different channel and back corrects the problem.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

That's exactly it. You arrow over 3 channels, there's a little pause and the box is three channels over but the audio is only two channels over.


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

This little mix thing is the easiest thing to make with NDS's tools (according to NDS), so I'd guess that DirecTV may have half-a**ed it or that the box just isnt' powerful enough to handle it. Problems like the audio not following may be easily fixed if the STB handle it.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> This little mix thing is the easiest thing to make with NDS's tools (according to NDS), so I'd guess that DirecTV may have half-a**ed it or that the box just isnt' powerful enough to handle it. Problems like the audio not following may be easily fixed if the STB handle it.


Or the R15 isn't as based on the NDS software, as you think it is...

For example... 
A past post:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=477646&postcount=3

Is it possible that OpenTV is the basis of the system?
http://www.opentv.com/


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

"With NDS tools..." I'm not sure what tools they use, but I never claimed that DirecTV uses the [email protected] development stuff (even though according to NDS, they do) in that post. 

I do know that they don't use OpenTV's middleware, so I think it just would make more sence for them to use NDS tools since they do in fact use NDS's middleware Just my opinion though. 

Edited again: Sky may use OpenTV's middleware, but according to NDS, they use NDS's [email protected]


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

How do you know that they don't use OpenTV's Middleware, and NDS's middleware ?

Are you now working for them and have access to the code?


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> How do you know that they don't use OpenTV's Middleware, and NDS's middleware ?
> 
> Are you now working for them and have access to the code?


I am about to die because I SWEAR ON MY LIFE that DirecTV had a press release in 2004/2005 that said that they were using MediaHighway. I can't find anything related to NDS on that darn site because i know there have been press releases related to SVP, MediaHighway, and VideoGuard.

I know I am not an idiot. DIRECTV SAID THEMSELVES (if I could just find it )

This is the only thing I could find coming from NDS's own IR. (Warning: PDF link)

http://nds.com/newspdfs/NDS_DTV_MediaHighway_070105.pdf

That's early '05, I believe when DirecTV started up the first interactive applications on set-top boxes (the D10 series) with MediaHighway.

There is also Wikipedia, but people don't trust that.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

It is possible that it is the NDS software that is driving the Interactive pieces...


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Just because they use one thing from NDS doesn't mean they use everything and it also doesn't mean its the only vendor they use.


----------



## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

What ever vendor product DTV is using its not (*^#(&@ working.

Keith



Clint Lamor said:


> Just because they use one thing from NDS doesn't mean they use everything and it also doesn't mean its the only vendor they use.


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm not disputing that.



klwillis said:


> What ever vendor product DTV is using its not (*^#(&@ working.
> 
> Keith


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> Just because they use one thing from NDS doesn't mean they use everything and it also doesn't mean its the only vendor they use.


I KNOW THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE USING VIDEOGUARD THEY DON'T NECCISARILY HAVE TO BE USING MEDIAHIGHWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*BUT when I have so many things telling me that they do (including confirmation from DirecTV)! What am I supposed to believe! I AM NOT WRONG ON THIS ONE AND I REFUSE TO MAKE ANYONE MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT I AM!!!!!!!*

Besides, if they were using OpenTV middleware, don't you think that the interactive crap would be compatable with most of DirecTV's current recievers and not just the D10, D11, R15 and soon enough the H20 and the HR20.

If I'm wrong, my name is jonasswan.

http://www.nds.com/press_room/article_directv_110504.html
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_Jan_8/ai_n8684692
http://informitv.com/articles/2006/05/15/premierefornds/
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA337607.html?display=Technology
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-3554985/DIRECTV-to-Showcase-First-Set.html
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=26857


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Why did you have to yell with the Bold and the Caps...

I didn't say you where "wrong", I was just saying that there is alternative explanation...

Don't you think the "interactive crap" could have been written in a intermediary language that could run on top of multiple middlewares ?

You know... kinda like how people can write software pieces that can run on multiple webbrowsers?


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Middleware Solutions to Enable New Experiences 
OpenTV Middleware products have been deployed on over 54 million set-top boxes across 44 networks with 35 set-top manufacturers world-wide. OpenTV Core, our flagship middleware product line, drives the world's most advanced interactive TV and PVR experiences, including BskyB and EchoStar with support for targeted advertising and ad telescoping. Our open interfaces provide easy development of triple-play and connected home experiences with support for home networking, multi-room PVR and personal and protected media distribution over broadcast and hybrid (satellite + IPTV) networks

Intersting, they says BskyB and EchoStar. They don't say anything about D* but since they says BskyB it looks like the Sky+ boxes must be using this and since we think that the SkY+ box was the basis for the R15 then it would stand to reason that the R15 does have opentv in it then, right?


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why did you have to yell with the Bold and the Caps...
> 
> I didn't say you where "wrong", I was just saying that there is alternative explanation...
> 
> ...


Because I was flustered and frustrated and it's much better to destroy your keyboard than destoying your laptop's irreplaceable screen.

Yes, it could have, but according to Wikipedia (which as you know by now is my god )

[q]Development of applications using these technologies is traditionally drawn out due to the limitations of the set-top box, the large amount of testing required and the lack of standardisation of deployed units. Almost all are proprietary and subject to heavy licensing restrictions.[/q]

And MediaHighway seems to be able to support a lot more standards than most middlewares.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Utimately... until one of us get's access to the source code, or becomes a member of the development team...

We simply don't know, and probably will never know 100%.. 

Ultimately, to me... it doesn't matter what middleware it is being done on. Or what tools are being used.... So long as things improve (functionally and featurely (yah I made that up)), I will be content.

Now, if they made it an "open" (no pun intended) platform, where we could write our own applets... that is a different story.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> Because I was flustered and frustrated and it's much better to destroy your keyboard than destoying your laptop's irreplaceable screen.


Nah... a laptop's screen can be replaced... not as easily, or cheaply... but it can be done.... 

No reason to get tweaked out over this...


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Middleware Solutions to Enable New Experiences
> OpenTV Middleware products have been deployed on over 54 million set-top boxes across 44 networks with 35 set-top manufacturers world-wide. OpenTV Core, our flagship middleware product line, drives the world's most advanced interactive TV and PVR experiences, including BskyB and EchoStar with support for targeted advertising and ad telescoping. Our open interfaces provide easy development of triple-play and connected home experiences with support for home networking, multi-room PVR and personal and protected media distribution over broadcast and hybrid (satellite + IPTV) networks
> 
> Intersting, they says BskyB and EchoStar. They don't say anything about D* but since they says BskyB it looks like the Sky+ boxes must be using this and since we think that the SkY+ box was the basis for the R15 then it would stand to reason that the R15 does have opentv in it then, right?


No we do not think (atleast I don't think) that the R15 was based off of Sky+, I think it was based (or has elements of) on XTV, which is just a DVR. It's not anything else. There is absolutely no evidence that says ANYTHING that DirecTV would be using OpenTV currently (because they don't).

And it wouldn't be stupid because if the regular recievers have MediaHighway, why would you think the R15 would?


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> No we do not think (atleast I don't think) that the R15 was based off of Sky+, I think it was based (or has elements of) on XTV, which is just a DVR. It's not anything else. There is absolutely no evidence that says ANYTHING that DirecTV would be using OpenTV currently (because they don't).
> 
> And it wouldn't be stupid because if the regular recievers have MediaHighway, why would you think the R15 would?


I thought that the Sky+ was based on XTV wasn't it? I don't have a clue to what D* does or doesn't use. I was just checking out the links that Earl posted and found it intersting that it listed Sky+ since I think the NDS site lists D* and Sky as users of there tech.

I'm with Earl on this one, I really don't care who makes it (althought it would be intersting to know who) as long as it works. Hopefully they will make it work sometime soon.


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

http://nds.com/conditional_access/ca_showcase.html

NDS never claims that BSkyB uses their middleware, but they do say that DirecTV does use theirs.

And even though it doesn't seem like it, I don't really care either, and I was just supporting my statement about DirecTV probably using MediaHighway when people were challenging it.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> http://nds.com/conditional_access/ca_showcase.html
> 
> NDS never claims that BSkyB uses their middleware, but they do say that DirecTV does use theirs.
> 
> And even though it doesn't seem like it, I don't really care either, and I was just supporting my statement about DirecTV probably using MediaHighway when people were challenging it.


Ok, I'm really confused.  the link you posted shows BskyB and D*. Is XTV just the hardware? It shows that D* and Sky both use XTV. What's the differance between that and there middle ware?


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Ok, I'm really confused.  the link you posted shows BskyB and D*. Is XTV just the hardware? It shows that D* and Sky both use XTV. What's the differance between that and there middle ware?


Well XTV is a DVR that the DirecTV+ those two units are based off of. For middleware, TechWeb's Tech Encyclopedia can explain better.



> Software that functions as a conversion or translation layer. It is also a consolidator and integrator.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> Well XTV is a DVR that the DirecTV+ those two units are based off of.


So does that inculde hardware and software or just hardware?

As for middleware I guess it's just that. It is what talks to the O/S and the application and works as the middleman?


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> So does that inculde hardware and software or just hardware?
> 
> As for middleware I guess it's just that. It is what talks to the O/S and the application and works as the middleman?


I would guess both, but it seems more like a base that companies build off of.

And yes, that is what the middleware is there for.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> I would guess both, but it seems more like a base that companies build off of.
> 
> And yes, that is what the middleware is there for.


Thanks for clearing that up a little more for me.

I still think that there is some UTV programming in these boxes too. It's very UTV like to me. If you take away the limits and give the MYVOD it's own "channel" like the UTV had it's very, very similar to that.


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

An update, according to Mr. Martin Sheehan of investor relations, NDS provides middleware and CA. He says nothing about XTV though. Either they have totally abandoned that platform (I kind of doubt it, but that would probably be a good thing) or they are ashamed.


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

CA????


----------



## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> CA????


Conditional access (security)


----------



## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

jonaswan2 said:


> Conditional access (security)


thanks.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

I've found a method of reproducing the bug the OP mentioned when starting this thread. This is the problem in which you select one of the channels from a Mix channel and after changing to the selected channel for a couple of seconds it switches to channel 201.

Follow these steps (this is on 10C8):

Change to a Mix channel such as 102.
Arrow over to a different channel such as CNN - 202.
Press MENU and select SEARCH/FIND.
Select TITLE and search on some show. I entered "A" and "C" and selected Access Hollywood.
Press EXIT.
Arrow back to channel 202 and press SELECT.
If the R15 changes channels correctly and stays on 202 press PREV and repeat the process.
I've recreated this problem after repeating this process 3 or 4 times which explains why sometimes you can run into this quickly and other times it can take days before running into this. If you try this shortly after a RESET you need to wait about 30 minutes to give the guide time to popupate.

*WARNING: Performing this will disable your Mix channels until you RESET your unit.*


----------



## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

I get the same thing when I use active channel for weather then goto mix channel and select a channel from there. But I never have to do it more than once before the issue shows up.
These boxes seem so inconsistent in operation even when it comes to the bugs.

Keith



Wolffpack said:


> I've found a method of reproducing the bug the OP mentioned when starting this thread. This is the problem in which you select one of the channels from a Mix channel and after changing to the selected channel for a couple of seconds it switches to channel 201.
> 
> Follow these steps (this is on 10C8):
> 
> ...


----------

