# What is stoping dish from turning 721 into Tivo?



## mjz (Jul 27, 2002)

I am just woundering, since both the 721 and Tivo are linux based. Is there anything that is stoping Dishnetwork from Licenseing the Tivo software (and modifing it to work with the 721's hardware) and offer it as an option on the unit?


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

I doubt this would happen because the 721 is based off of software based on the Broadcom Chip which the 721 uses.

Porting the Tivo onto the 721's hardware might actually be harder then it sounds.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

It's probably possible, given -

#1 - Dish wants to pay the licensing fee to TiVo
#2 - Dish wants to bad enough.

But I'm with Scott - I don't think it will happen, at least not in the short term. OTOH, if the merger deal falls apart, I wouldn't be too surprised if we start seeing the 721 turned into "DishTiVo's".


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## MrAkai (Aug 10, 2002)

I wouldn't imagine it being too hard for Tivo to port their front-end to the 721, as long as Tivo abstracted their access into device drivers, which seems to be the case since there are multiple hardware platforms running Tivo no problem (Cable or D* input for example).

The main technical (not legal ;-) barrier would be that the Tivo's are PowerPC based, and the 721 in Intel compatable.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

They both run the same OS. The GUI stuff is really just a re-compile. All the broadcom stuff though means a lot of things would need to be rewritten.

But, Tivo is not likely to do a Dish Network STB. 

I think Dish will attempt to get as much done as they can. But there is only so far they can go with the current patents Tivo and Replay have. I would say it's more likely to see Dish get some IP fron SonicBlue for Replay, before going to Tivo.

Still, I think the PVR stuff is going to be very slow moving becuase there just aren't enough people buying them.


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## geneb11 (Mar 24, 2002)

They could swap out the 721's with dishtivo's and take them back to the shop and change what ever it is they need changing and resell them as refurbs at a lower price and get more people paying that tivo fee. On the other hand they are not promoting the 721. How many people have a 721 anyway? They still have tme to change this unit.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

Given the PVRs schlocky interface and functionality, I would hope a Tivo-like or ReplayTV-like solution is in the works.

PVR looks like a first-gen PVR and lacks refinement and easy user interfaces.

The remote is also too complicated for most non-power users.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

I don't know. Why bother? It would be easier just to release a DishTiVo and let those who want a TiVo to buy a new one. Why go through the hassle of retrofitting a older unit?


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## andrzejpw (Apr 23, 2002)

as has been said, i'm sure this would take a lot more than a firmware update. Maybe they'd make a new model/license, but retrofitting? no way.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2002)

I'm just curious, since I know very little about TiVo:

Why do so many people seem to want a DishPVR (which has no monthly usage fee and collects no viewing-habit data) to mimic a product which charges a monthly (or large, one-time) fee and collects data on the user's viewing habits?

Is the interface *THAT* far superior to those of the DishPVRs? If so, how so? If not, is it the product maturity (fewer bugs)? What?


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Isn't there the issue of Look and Feel. Dish would have to make sure that anything they "Borrowed" from the TiVo interface was just different enough as to not violate "Intellectual Property". Lawsuits abound if the products "look and feel" and operation was too close. They could not use the name "Season pass", but also would have to make a "Season Pass" be a little different in functionality as well as just name.


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## Win Joy Jr (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DLF _
> *I'm just curious, since I know very little about TiVo:
> 
> Why do so many people seem to want a DishPVR (which has no monthly usage fee and collects no viewing-habit data) to mimic a product which charges a monthly (or large, one-time) fee and collects data on the user's viewing habits?
> ...


First off, the TiVo fee is now $4.99 (FREE if you subscribe to the top of the line package), and covers all DirecTiVo's on the account. With the price lower, resistance to the fee is not pretty much removed. Additionally, the New Series II DirectTiVo's should be available on / around 10/21 for $199 for both new and existing customers. With the policy change at DirecTV, anytime you add in a new receiver on your account, you are committing to subscribing to Total Choice or above (I THINK it is the 31.95 package or above).

Up until the 721 was introduced, the DirecTiVo was the only sat PVR that had dual tuners. That way you could record one thing while watching live TV, or even record 2 things and watch something you already had recorded.

As far as the UI goes, I think it is a wash. People will adapt to the UI presented.

Now, the BIG thing that DirecTiVo owners fear is that as reported, the Dish PVR product is not as robust or trustworthy as the TiVo. I have only had one recording missed, and it was not due to an error. I had a Season Pass set too low in priority.

The TiVo has Wishlists and Season Passes. Once to set the TiVo, it does what it needs to do, with no fuss or muss.

In the interest of full disclosure. I HAVE seen the 301 in action. I have not seen the 501 / 721 first hand as of yet.

Right now, IMHO, the DirecTiVo is the best Sat PVR available (but I am biased). What worries most DirecTiVo owners that IF the merger gets approved, that E* will offer a PVR that does not do what the DirecTiVo does. Then what choice will we have?

On Edit: you can opt out of the data collection.


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2002)

Thanks for the explanation, Win Joy Jr

I understand the DirecTiVo-owners' p.o.v. a lot better now. I didn't know about the TiVo price change or the opt-out option.

BTW, merger just denied, so we'll each get to keep our PVRs!


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## DarrellP (Apr 24, 2002)

I would like to see Dish alter the timers so it is associated with a name at that timeslot. For instance, I setup weekly timers for Firefly & John Doe, but they are not on this week so I had to kill the timers. 

Why couldn't Dish associate the name of the program with that time & if the name doesn't jive with the timeslot, don't record it. Sounds easy enough.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by DarrellP _
> *I would like to see Dish alter the timers so it is associated with a name at that timeslot. For instance, I setup weekly timers for Firefly & John Doe, but they are not on this week so I had to kill the timers.
> 
> Why couldn't Dish associate the name of the program with that time & if the name doesn't jive with the timeslot, don't record it. Sounds easy enough. *


I believe TiVo has the Patent for this.


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## Karl Foster (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Curtis0620 _
> *
> 
> I believe TiVo has the Patent for this. *


I don't think it is a Tivo patent. Ultimatetv has the ability to do the exact same thing. Shows are record by show name, not just the time slot.

An example:

Big Brother 3 that was on CBS over the summer changed nights and time slots a few times. The Ultimatetv picked up these changes and recorded it without fail. The show that was playing in Big Brother's place did not record. It is called an Auto Record on the Ultimatetv. Auto records can be set up by show title, actor, theme, etc.

BTW, an error in a previous post. Ultimatetv was also out there with dual tuners before the 721 (actually Ultimatetv was the first one out there, not DirecTivo). Both are great units, but the DirecTivo has the edge right now with the lowered monthly fees and the new unit being introduced.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

As someone who owns both a TiVo and a DishPVR, my opinion is that the DishPVR is easier to use, especially for people with limited technical ability.

The TiVo remote has an illogical and unintuitive layout - for example, it is the only remote where the "select" button is not in the middle of the four arrow buttons (not to mention that the rocker design for the arrow buttons is highly unreliable). Also, the replay and skip-ahead buttons are in a hard-to-find spot below everything, with the hardly-ever-used-even-by-sports-nuts slow motion button in a more prominent spot.

Also, the lack of a 300X speed on the TiVo makes navigating more difficult, although the time-of-day markings are helpful.

The cutesy naming in the TiVo interface ("Now Playing", "To Do Lists", etc.) are also non-intuitive (although admittedly "PVR" and "Timer" also mean nothing to a newbie), and the necessity of using sub-menus to do anything on a TiVo implies that the viewer has previous computer use or else a long training session is needed for "grandma" or other technophobes.

DishPVR can be operated entirely from the remote, without having to navigate the menu system at all (my guess is that 90% of Dish Network users have never used the menu system, so this is more important than it looks to us enthusiasts).

My opinion is that a lot of the enthusiasm for TiVo has come from cable users who otherwise have no other way to even pause the TV when the phone rings, let alone go to a dinner party on the same night as their favorite show.

Another aspect of its legend has grown up over its ability to adjust date and time when a show moves - a feature whose popularity is driven more by the annoyance one feels when that happens, rather than the frequency that it happens - I can only think of 2 or 3 date/time changes in all the shows I've viewed over the past 10 years or so. 

I use DishPVR's unique ability to permanently record the last several minutes viewed, far more often than I would need TiVo's Season Pass features. This is because despite all of TiVo's automatic features, you still have to manually check everything - note the comment several posts above "I missed it because I had the Season Pass Priority set too low". How many technophobes are going to even understand what "Season Pass Priority" is??


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Let me guess, you don't have a Sony TiVo. The Sony TiVo remote IMO is the best remote I have ever used.


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