# Wasting time with Advanced Tech Support



## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Well, that was a sheer waste of time. I called in because I had recorded Harry Potter on channel 180 last night, and when I tried to watch it tonight, I got a very annoying amount of pixelation and Aquiring Signal notices. I talked to a nice CSR who was new to the department, but got cut off and had to call back. The next guy wanted to talk me through a bunch of stuff, and I had to repeatedly point out that I am an installer. The best he could come up with was to try changing the ports on the quad from 1/2 to 3/4. Whatever. I did mention to him how the menu weather wasn't updating and he said he would pass that on.......

Now, when I went to the diag screen(menu 6/5, and did the info/right/left to bring up the debug screen, I had some interesting counters:

NVM_ID_POWER_FAIL_CNTR 116
NVM_ID_POWER_FLAG 66
NVM_ID_SUCCESS_CNTR 2
NVM_ID_INSTALL_CNTR 3

All other values were 0. I asked if I was having a power problem and said I could hook the 721 up to a UPS I'm not using, but was told that that wasn't the problem. I don't know that I believe that, so I will hook it up tomorrow after I dig it out and see if it helps. I wouldn't be suprised if the line conditions in this townhouse are too low considering how much stuff I run.............thoughts anyone?


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Is it possible your switch was losing power? I had a problem with power flashes one time and the recievers would continue to work, but the sw64 would briefly fail giving me those notices. I put the power inserter on the UPS with the recievers and it solved the problem.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I hate it when I call Dish Network and then you somehow "get disconnected". It has happened to me too many times. I think sometimes they hang up on purpose. This really makes me mad when I am on hold for a while then they disconnect me.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I now for a FACT that CSRs in all companies intentionally disconnect calls. Most are rated by calls completed per hour When they get a tough call they hang up so as to not hurt their stats. That can hurt their chances for a raise or even keeping their job

This is really a management issue. First reps should be scored on satisfied customers rather than number per hour. Beyond that, all calls should be monitored, and reps terminating calls should be fired.

AOLs India customer support center is the worst offender for stuff like this. But its rampant everywhere.


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## mwgiii (Jul 19, 2002)

Was there heavy rain or thunderstorms in the area when Potter was recording?


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Actually, the disconnect was due to the crappy cell phone service not Dish, so please don't carry on about that in this post. Anyway, no, there was no storm during the recording, and we were watching TV the whole time while it was recording. As for losing power, I'm not sure, since I was using the other tuner. Unless there is a design problem with the 721 not suppling enough voltage, OR if the line voltage dropped, and the 721 couldn't keep up the output for both lines. I will be installing the UPS sometime today, and will try doing a bunch of recording on various channels to see if it improves or not.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Larry this may not apply but I just found another CCS9601 TWIN that caused similar problems. Last Sat. my showroom 522 got very flaky loosing signals not passing a switch test etc. after 45 minutes I changed out a DP-34 problem seemed cured. Monday everything running OK, Mon. afternoon changed channels 522 said aquiring signals, switch test 110 & 119 failed 148 OK. Checked 311 running on same dish 110 & 119 evens 148 OK this was at 4 in the afternoon temperature above 95. Looked at the dish and I had a DP TWIN, aha I thought another DP Twin is failing. Climbed up on the roof Tuesday morning and found I had a CCS9601 on my system and I know better.
What I am trying to say is check out the basics, the problem may not be where you are looking. I do have a UPS on my 522 just for your information, and I think it might be a good idea on any DISH DVR.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

That wouldn't apply because I am running a DP Quad. If the UPS doesn't work out, I am going to setup an SW64 for testing for the 105/121s with a Primestar Dish. If that doesn't work, I will have Dish RA the unit. One of the other installers I work with has had his 721 replaced a few times so far. WHat made me think of the UPS was the power fail thing. Has anyone else brought up their debug screen and seen anything like this?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I have the following and didnt know this menu existed. advanced tech never talked me thru bringing it up. In any case this 721 has lived its entire lifetime here on a APC UPS.

I do admit my prefered reboot is powering the UPS off. Although some here slammed me for that. Our power fails way more often than my rebooting the 721. CE devices should be built to tolerate power bumps. We have on avwerage a power failure daily

NVM_ID_POWER_FAIL_CNTR 59
NVM_ID_POWER_FLAG 66
NVM_ID_SUCCESS_CNTR 4
NVM_ID_INSTALL_CNTR 5


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## MattS (Apr 5, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> I now for a FACT that CSRs in all companies intentionally disconnect calls. Most are rated by calls completed per hour When they get a tough call they hang up so as to not hurt their stats. That can hurt their chances for a raise or even keeping their job
> 
> This is really a management issue. First reps should be scored on satisfied customers rather than number per hour. Beyond that, all calls should be monitored, and reps terminating calls should be fired.
> 
> AOLs India customer support center is the worst offender for stuff like this. But its rampant everywhere.


I know for a FACT that CSR's at Dish Network do NOT get paid by how many calls they take. Its a purely hourly wage. Just because the conversation is dropped that doesnt automatically mean that the CSR hung up on you. Yes, some CSR's do hang up on people but I gaurantee its 1% of the entire call center.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Its purely by hour, but raises and other perks are awarded by calls completed per hour. This is standard in the entire telephone support industry. Unfortunately sometimes quality looses out to quantity


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Come on guys, lets drop the CSR stuff. This is about the 721, so can we please keep it that way. 

Bob: If the 712 is on the UPS, do you think that you have shut it off 59 times? If so, then that may be a good indictation that it may help the unit to be on the UPS. From what I have seen, your problems seem to be more software related? It's obvious that some issues exist with this setup, and I for one would like to find some solutions, so let pool our resources. Perhaps we can find some solutions. 

And trust me, you haven't had problems with a company like I have had with my cell phone for the last year......


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2004)

larrystotler said:


> Come on guys, lets drop the CSR stuff. This is about the 721, so can we please keep it that way.
> 
> Bob: If the 712 is on the UPS, do you think that you have shut it off 59 times? If so, then that may be a good indictation that it may help the unit to be on the UPS. From what I have seen, your problems seem to be more software related? It's obvious that some issues exist with this setup, and I for one would like to find some solutions, so let pool our resources. Perhaps we can find some solutions.
> 
> And trust me, you haven't had problems with a company like I have had with my cell phone for the last year......


And who is your cell provider?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

larrystotler said:


> Come on guys, lets drop the CSR stuff. This is about the 721, so can we please keep it that way.
> 
> Bob: If the 712 is on the UPS, do you think that you have shut it off 59 times? QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Ok, that make sense then. So far, I haven't had a sneeze out of it since I switched to the SW64. Now, to just find time to add in the UPS and replace the 500 with the 2 30" dishes I have....Of course, I would have time if I wasn't sitting here doing this....


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

larrystotler said:


> Now, when I went to the diag screen(menu 6/5, and did the info/right/left to bring up the debug screen, I had some interesting counters:
> 
> NVM_ID_POWER_FAIL_CNTR 116
> NVM_ID_POWER_FLAG 66
> ...


Anyone have a doc that tells you what all those values are for, i.e. watchdog, etc.?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> I have the following and didnt know this menu existed. advanced tech never talked me thru bringing it up. In any case this 721 has lived its entire lifetime here on a APC UPS.
> 
> I do admit my prefered reboot is powering the UPS off. Although some here slammed me for that. Our power fails way more often than my rebooting the 721. CE devices should be built to tolerate power bumps. We have on avwerage a power failure daily
> 
> ...


You have a power failure daily??? Jeeze where do you live Bob? I live in Energy starved SoCal and rarely see a power outage. I wonder how dirty your power is and if the APC does a good job at cleaning it up. Not just protecting from brown outs. Have you had any issues with your APC?

The plot thickens.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Bogey62 said:


> Anyone have a doc that tells you what all those values are for, i.e. watchdog, etc.?


I wish, when I asked about it no one knew.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

WeeJavaDude said:


> You have a power failure daily??? Jeeze where do you live Bob? I live in Energy starved SoCal and rarely see a power outage. I wonder how dirty your power is and if the APC does a good job at cleaning it up. Not just protecting from brown outs. Have you had any issues with your APC?
> 
> The plot thickens.


I tend to believe that Bob embellishes his "observations". I'll bet his power company will say that their isn't a daily power outage (even a very short one) in his area. In my area, people would be calling the power company DAILY until the problem was fixed. No power company in the U.S. can provide service that poor and get away with it for an extended period.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Having only had my UPS plugged up for a few days, I noticed a lot of overvoltages on it. When I have time to set it up properly, I will tie it back into my computer to log everything and see how bad it is.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well I had this microwave... It was VERY nice. Only one minor detail Any minor power bump would turn it into a flashing 12:00. After resetting the thing every day for weeks I finally gave up. Just hit clock constantly so it would accept a command.

I have talked to Duquesne Light. Its a lost cause. They dont appear to care about real short outages Part of the trouble is they do little line maintenance, will reset overloaded transformers till they finally die, they have cut back so much and sold off their entire generation division, that originally ran shippingport. they run everything on the cheap

For many people the short outages arent a big deal. I put UPS on the critical stuff. Heck I once wired a bunch of nicads together to power my phone answering machine because the outages play havoc with it. I think the troubles are worse here, were the end of a LONG line, in a 50 year old home neighborhood. Some of my customers have troubles too with SEAL vacuumn presses. They dont run well on low voltage.

Anyone know of a good fairly cheap recording voltmeter? I will buy it for my business since I need one anyway, but hang it on the power line here and post the results. A buddy of mine used to fix laser printers and started mointioring things. his results were unreal.... 90 volt sags, 2 second drop outs etc on a constant basis, heavy line noise. played havoc with those printers, one people put them on UPS the troubles disappeared. The UPS were COSTLY....


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Most APC UPSes have monitoring software that works with WinDoZe and will record brownouts and sags. Then you can print or inport the log file. I have the software for Win, but I am trying to go all Linux.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> Anyone know of a good fairly cheap recording voltmeter? I will buy it for my business since I need one anyway, but hang it on the power line here and post the results.


Save your money to get that tree trimmed, so you can finally switch to DirecTV. No more 721 for you!


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> I have talked to Duquesne Light. Its a lost cause. They dont appear to care about real short outages


Bob,

It is NOT a lost cause. I know people that have had problems with their electric utility and they filed complaints with their states' regulating commission and the problem was taken care fairly quickly.

File a complaint with your states' PUC. Here is a link to their web site: http://www.puc.state.pa.us/general/filecomplaints.aspx


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Bill R said:


> I tend to believe that Bob embellishes his "observations". I'll bet his power company will say that their isn't a daily power outage (even a very short one) in his area. In my area, people would be calling the power company DAILY until the problem was fixed. No power company in the U.S. can provide service that poor and get away with it for an extended period.


Well, I don't know about Bob, but we tend to have "blinks" all summer long - sometimes several a day, sometimes none for a few days. They are due to lightning strikes. They are only blinks because my Rural Electrical Co-Op has spent a LOT of money on special lightning protection. No idea what they are, but they do the job - they are on every 2nd or 3rd pole. Before they were installed, we would have 30-60 minutes outages on a regular basis - sometimes daily.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Personally I have seen people hit poles, the power company REFUSES to trim trees in individual hoimes service drops, even by request. Claiming its the homeowners
problem I have such a tree myself.

Their attitude saves them bucks, but I think a large number of blinkouts are from shorting wires in wind, windy days are bad. the offending tree branches affect not just the property owner but the entire neighborhood....

I have a APC UPS on my 721, never bothered looking at the software that came with it. After the home sale I will upgrade my computer and UPS. I guess I can post a power log for all to see. My computers UPS battery is at the end of life...

Given the neighborhoods age the infrastructure is wearing out. the serwer company replaced all the mains, and my service line has tree root troubles, kept mostly in check by liberal doses of rock salt water. Became a real PIA and the phone company finally replaced the old lead covered main phone cable, it would go out with every rain. water companys mains are leaking, but not too bad.

Years ago when people added air cionditioning the electric company upgraded the transformer. Now they wait tioll the transformer burns out.  They were willing to reset a breaker twice a week in warm weather for months till one day the thing caught on fire. The line crew said good we were tired of coming here. 

Cost cutting on essential services isnt always a good thing, and just recently theres talk the wired line phone up time is dropping,m with more people using cell they dont have or care to spend big bucks on infrastructure.

A GREAT example is that eastern US power failure last summer, cause, lack of $$$ spent on upgrades and maintnance


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Bob: Sorry to hear about your crumbling world. 

I gotta say - a quick phone call and my IREA will come out and trim tree branches anywhere near the lines. No charge.

I'm a big-time capitalist, but support Co-Ops for any service that is a monopoly - like electricity, water, etc. What I mean by Co-Op is that the customers are the owners/shareholders. ALL profit is returned to the customers under a responsible capital budget/fund plan. It works great. Rates stay low (we're currently still at early '80's prices) and we get nice rebate checks every year.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

SimpleSimon said:


> What I mean by Co-Op is that the customers are the owners/shareholders. ALL profit is returned to the customers under a responsible capital budget/fund plan. It works great. Rates stay low (we're currently still at early '80's prices) and we get nice rebate checks every year.


Mr. Simon, are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party? :lol:


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

garypen said:


> Mr. Simon, are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party? :lol:


Gary - good one. Bob and Simon could be like us and live in CA where we don't have many outtages and they're pretty good about trimming the trees away from the lines. Of course we are in the top 5 for the highest electricity rates in the country, but our power doesn't go out much. :lol: I think I've have one power outage in 2004 that lasted more than 5 minutes and less than 5 that were under 5 minutes.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

finniganps said:


> Of course we are in the top 5 for the highest electricity rates in the country.


We can blame that on deregulation, and our buddies from Texas.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Previously duquesne light had one of the highest costs per kilowatt hour in the country near 13 cents per kilo watt hour delivered. Largely from having too much capacity, demand dropped like a rock when the steel industrry died....

whats the rate in california these days?


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> Previously duquesne light had one of the highest costs per kilowatt hour in the country near 13 cents per kilo watt hour delivered. Largely from having too much capacity, demand dropped like a rock when the steel industrry died....
> 
> whats the rate in california these days?


Our rates were just reduced to an average of 12.78 cents per kwh from 13.9. It is unlikely that this rate will hold in the long term since our utility is trying to boost rates to perform maintenance and upgrades to a Nuclear Power Plant.

I think we're OFF topic now and will stop posting off topic for the day...


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

finniganps said:


> Gary - good one. Bob and Simon could be like us and live in CA where we don't have many outtages and they're pretty good about trimming the trees away from the lines. Of course we are in the top 5 for the highest electricity rates in the country, but our power doesn't go out much. :lol: I think I've have one power outage in 2004 that lasted more than 5 minutes and less than 5 that were under 5 minutes.


I do NOT see how you could have taken my posts to mean I disliked my electrical CoOp. The "blinks" we get here are due to Mother Nature (#2 highest lightning strike county in the country). If my CoOp didn't put forth some (of our own) money to add protection we would be having real outages (sense of deja vu as I realize I said that already). And of course, my CoOp has very LOW rates.

And of course, Gary (and anyone that reads my signature) knows I'm as far from a Communist as you can get. CoOps are capitalistic, not communistic.

My apologies if I've totally misread what you guys have been talking about.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Apology accepted.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

garypen said:


> Apology accepted.


 OK, but you aren't gonna sell me a clue to put me back on track?

I Know, your next response would've been one 2-letter word beginning with "N", but I beat you to it, so now you'll have to come up with something else - and if you're true to form, it will be entertaining.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I for one support higher rates for rock solid dependable operation.

WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT LINE BEFORE 

Ignoring base problems in infrastructure only gets you in trouble over time.

wether its lack of mauintaing a electrical plant or poor box devlopment and software


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Agreed Bob - but strangely enough my electric CoOp manages to do it without raising rates - in fact there's a brand-new substation going in about a mile down the road from me, and there's not even any overload problems in this area yet - they're ahead of the curve.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Electricity is just a fad.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Back on topic - I've had pretty good luck with Advanced tech support the times that I've used them. They were either able to solve the problem or determine that I needed a new box pretty fast.


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