# HD offers -vs- Support



## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

So I've been thinking of doing the switch from D* to E* but thus far the customer support with E* really stinks compared to D*. Reminds me of BestBuy saleskids who really know nothing about their own products. Before I make the leap I need to know actual support is much better than the de-gens I've been getting on sales.

What does this have to do with HD? Well, I've been having problems ordering a simple HD setup. I would want two 622s, which their on-line questionaire seems to imply is possible; 

Please select the number of HD televisions you want to connect to a DVR*: None 1 2 

But once you pick two it doesn't reflect on the estimated charges. No one seems to be able to answer the question without checking with their own management. Then they come back saying that you cannot do that on-line.

Question is simple, why ask how many DVRs to HDs do you want, if you can only get one on-line according to customer service?

This shady support makes me nervous about jumping...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RobR7 said:


> Question is simple, why ask how many DVRs to HDs do you want, if you can only get one on-line according to customer service?
> 
> This shady support makes me nervous about jumping...


If you're going to base your opinion of a company based on a Java applet on their website, you probably shouldn't consider changing. Have you ever been sucessful in finding anything important on the D* website?

If you want the most up-to-date hardware and HD programming, Dish is one of the best options.

I would caution anyone not to get too excited about recording HD like you are used to doing with SD. First off, there isn't that much programming that you need to record everything and secondly, it eats space like you were using a first generation DVR.

If you wait a couple weeks, everything that isn't a serial will replay again.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

harsh said:


> If you're going to base your opinion of a company based on a Java applet on their website, you probably shouldn't consider changing.


I agree with everything in your post except the Applet part. Not a significant difference, but Dishbuilder is Flash.

codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=7,0,0,0"

Love Java, Hate Flash.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

Great, my first answer is from a Dish apologist. Thanks for "helping". Do E* a favor and try not to become a salesperson for them.  and no, I haven't had any problems with the D* site.

After close to an hour the rep figured it out. 

Here's his answer;

The 622 receiver provides DVR service to two HD receivers. TV 1 can watch HD programming live and recorded HD events in true HD. The second TV can watch recorded HD programs in HD, but will not have to ability to watch live programming in HD because it will be hooked up with a coax. line. 

Seems they don't know the answer right off the bat but he was able to dig it up.

For the record, I tried a live rep first and then the on-line. 

So problem solved, but I still like to know if customer support is better than new sales support...


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

First off... :welcome_s RobR7

The answer you got does not sound not totally accurate.

If you are wanting to use the 622 with two HD TVS at the same time, they would have to watch both the same program and have one connected to HDMI and one to component. Assuming both HD TVs are close to the 622.

The concept of the 622 is for it to be used either as single HD DVR with two tuner capability or in dual mode where you have one HD TV and the other is a SD TV. See the 622 support forum and the 622 review for more details.

You can watch HD content on your SD TV, but you cannot watch HD quality on the second TV.

Hope that makes sense. If not, I suggest reading the review in the support forum and it might clear things up.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=53590


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

RobR7 said:


> ...
> So problem solved, but I still like to know if customer support is better than new sales support...


HD Tech Support is WAYYYYYYY better than sales support, or the standard Customer Service Representative.

And no, you can't watch HD over the TV2 port. But, you can record two HD streams from the satellite, and one HD stream OTA, for later playback in HD on TV1.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks guys, much obliged... I don't know why I'm so nervous about switching... maybe its the 1K I spent on that dang Tivo HD DVR and then not getting much use out of it. I dont make that kind of money where I can switch equiptment whenever I feel like it, so I want to make sure I do it right this time. I already feel like I got my tail between my legs telling the wife I'm switching.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Switching always makes me a bit cautious. Don't want to end up over the fence and find the grass is not as green as you thought it was. I would suggest taking your time and making sure you are comfortable with your decision. Lot of info on the site here that I am sure would help educate you about E* vs. D*. Yeck there are alot of threads just discussing the differences. 

Well one thing you might consider if you have some concerns is see if you have any friends or neighbors that have Dish and also have a 622 so you can get a feel for what you will be getting. 

Good luck and if you have any additional questions feel free. There are a lot of D* and E* users around that I am sure will jump in with a response.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RobR7 said:


> maybe its the 1K I spent on that dang Tivo HD DVR and then not getting much use out of it. I dont make that kind of money where I can switch equiptment whenever I feel like it, so I want to make sure I do it right this time.


If it is the money, don't buy the receiver (although they sell for $499). As a new customer, you can probably step into a $6/month lease for 18 months.

The Customer Service person was mistaken or you misinterpreted what they said. The 622 will only drive a nearby HD TV through HDMI or component. If you want independent control over two HD televisions, you'll need two HD receivers. The other outputs (RCA, S-VHS, RF) are SD only.


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## HD_Wayne (May 23, 2006)

RobR7 said:


> So I've been thinking of doing the switch from D* to E* but thus far the customer support with E* really stinks compared to D*. Reminds me of BestBuy saleskids who really know nothing about their own products. Before I make the leap I need to know actual support is much better than the de-gens I've been getting on sales.
> 
> What does this have to do with HD? Well, I've been having problems ordering a simple HD setup. I would want two 622s, which their on-line questionaire seems to imply is possible;


I am not sure what plan you were trying to get. Dish has for new customers what they call the "Digital Home Advantage" which is basically a lease plan that allows you to least up to 4 tuners. There is no long term commitment, however if you commit to an 18 month term the 49.99 activation fee charged is refunded on your first months bill and the monthly DHA fee ($5.99) is waved. With this plan you are only allowed one ViP622 receiver. You will have to pay a $199.99 lease upgrade fee on the ViP622. I know some existing customers on this list have managed to get two by calling many times untill they get the right answer.

Something else that is not widely known is the 30 day money back guarrentee. Excluding PPV and some other items if you cancel in less than 30 days Dish will give you a refund. (Disclaimer, please see the E* website or ask E* for exact details of the money back offer) This would in effect allow you to try out one ViP622 with little risk on your part.

Unless you are very lucky I think you will have to buy the 2nd 622. Who knows there may be a plan out there somewhere in promotion land that will allow you to get 2 622's on a lease.

Wayne


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

HD_Wayne said:


> Something else that is not widely known is the 30 day money back guarrentee. Excluding PPV and some other items if you cancel in less than 30 days Dish will give you a refund. (Disclaimer, please see the E* website or ask E* for exact details of the money back offer) This would in effect allow you to try out one ViP622 with little risk on your part.


My local dealer says that they have discontinued that program. It was a special promotion that was either an attempt to best DirecTV or an answer to their 30 day "money back" program.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

harsh said:


> The Customer Service person was mistaken or you misinterpreted what they said.


Sorry, that was a cut and paste from the on-line chat. This is what I mean about their sales reps... don't get the warm and fuzzy. At least you guys seem quite pleased with E* itself. I'm gonna try someone local to see if I can get a deal but I think I'm going to do it. :nono2: Can't hurt to try.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

Also, forgot to mention... rep said I'll need a whole new multiswitch. I can't use the 8-way I got from D*. I didn't think that would matter...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RobR7 said:


> Also, forgot to mention... rep said I'll need a whole new multiswitch. I can't use the 8-way I got from D*. I didn't think that would matter...


The standard setup comes with two leads which will drive two receivers (only one is required for even the two tuner receiver). If you need more than two receivers, they should provide a 3x4 or 4x4 as part of the install.

Dish Network does not provide an OTA input on their multiswitch. You can use diplexers.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

harsh said:


> The standard setup comes with two leads which will drive two receivers (only one is required for even the two tuner receiver). If you need more than two receivers, they should provide a 3x4 or 4x4 as part of the install.
> 
> Dish Network does not provide an OTA input on their multiswitch. You can use diplexers.


The rep said I couldn't use my D* multiswitch cause the 622 is MP4. True?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RobR7 said:


> The rep said I couldn't use my D* multiswitch cause the 622 is MP4. True?


No. You can't use the D* switch because it is incompatible with E* receivers. You seem to have the worst luck getting correct answers. I'd stop asking questions of the sales people.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

Sounds like he was right with that one. 

Gonna dive in more of the HD threads... Thanks Everyone!


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

harsh said:


> My local dealer says that they have discontinued that program. It was a special promotion that was either an attempt to best DirecTV or an answer to their 30 day "money back" program.


The 30 day money back guarantee is still in effect through Dish. Maybe your local dealer just stopped honoring it because he didn't want to spend his time pulling systems. I know i've heard some grumbling around here about the time being spent on pulling systems because of it. In fact our install supervisor has asked the salespeople not to bring up the 30 day thing while talking to potential customers if at all possible! :lol:


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## HD_Wayne (May 23, 2006)

harsh said:


> My local dealer says that they have discontinued that program. It was a special promotion that was either an attempt to best DirecTV or an answer to their 30 day "money back" program.


I just checked, it is in effect till Jan 31, 2007. Have your retailer check the retailer care site and look under Job aids under Hot topics.

Wayne


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## dvbfan (Aug 2, 2006)

Anyone knows of the offer from Dish that they have for ex-Dish customer (who left Dish for more than 1 year) and they give an extra $25.00 besides the regular $10.00 off (for next 10 months) or $20.00 (for DishHD subs) ?


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

I think I'm going to lose my patience...

I finally ordered, with an install date of today. Waited... waited... since I didn't get a courtesy call (at least D* did that much)... I decided to call to double check half way through my install window (don't Sat companies make fun of cable for this same thing?)... it was an automated response and said I was scheduled for today and to please wait my whole alloted time. Ok, fine I waited till 5 minutes to 5pm to call again. 

Got a rep and he actually chastised me, asked me what time it was and began to imply that there wouldn't be an issue if I waited for my whole alloted window... I sarcastically asked if he thought they'd show up in the next five minutes. He put me on hold while he checked. 25 minutes on hold and I get a knock at my door.

Installers showed up. Oh, wait, problem... no Dish 1000, two 500s only... I told them that I had requested a single dish to replace the d* dish and that the same mounting already in place to be used. Guy said that's what they had in the truck and I replied I still preferred a single unit... he said Ok and actually started to walk away. WTF!?! 

Luckily for this fledgling relationship guy #2 spoke up and asked a$$#0l3 #1 to check with the CO for stock and if they could come back tomorrow. They promised to call me back today to confirm. No call.

I call Dish, they yet again ask if I waited the alloted time... (my order is on your screen).. I kindly and confidently just said yes this time and I was put on hold another half hour with nothing but bad music... I hang up. 

Called back... this time I get a very courtious rep that even though I was on hold for another 45 mins (while she attempted to contact the installers/dispatcher) she was at least checking in with me every 5 minutes or so to give me a status. She finally came back and said that the instalers will call me back... I warned that if they didn't that I would cancel the order but thanked her for the best service I gotten thus far.

I actually got a call back from the Dish dispatcher pretty darn fast. Problem though... 1000s aren't available in this area (NYC, huh?) I have no choice but to believe the man. He sets me up with a real Dish employed installer for this Monday.

Why do I feel like I'm trying too hard here?


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## bkleven (Jul 8, 2006)

Seems to me like you are expending more energy than should be necessary RobR7... but I haven't actually dealt with either company yet.

Something you mentioned is something that I am concerned about as well, since I am currently a cable slave and trying to decide between E* and D*. Please know I am not trying to hijack; hopefully someone has an answer that will benefit both of us.

The issue: single Dish 1000 vs. Dual Dish 500. I've seen a smattering of comments in different threads about the quality of the Dish 1000... If I remember correctly, most of the negative comments were related to issues that folks on the west coast were having because one of the E* sats might be 'wobbling' and from the west coast, it's pretty low on the horizon. My understanding was that in those cases, people were told to go with Dual 500, since that setup picks up a sat that the 1000 does not, which is mirrorring programming on the offending bird. Whew...

Thus the question: Is the Dish 1000 really available everyhwhere in the lower 48, with the exception of the west coast? Are any other areas of the country having trouble with it? I can handle a dual 500 configuration, but I'm not clear on the installation issues (more coax? multiswitch?) and the wife won't be excited about two large, grey monsters hanging off the side of the house. Just for reference, I'm about 30 miles north of downtown Denver, CO.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

bkleven said:


> Thus the question: Is the Dish 1000 really available everyhwhere in the lower 48, with the exception of the west coast? Are any other areas of the country having trouble with it? I can handle a dual 500 configuration, but I'm not clear on the installation issues (more coax? multiswitch?) and the wife won't be excited about two large, grey monsters hanging off the side of the house. Just for reference, I'm about 30 miles north of downtown Denver, CO.


I think most of the dual dish setups are on the East Coast due to the locals and CBS HD East feed being on the 61 sat. Here in Detroit our CBS station is owned by the company so we can opt to have the second dish installed to pull in 61 to get CBS East HD - I didn't do that because I didn't want 2 saucers on my roof.

The 1000 dish pulls in Sats 110. 119 & 129. I had a 1000 installed at my house outside of Detroit for about 18 months and never experienced any drop outs from the 129 sat. My brother lives in Durango CO - he has a 1000 installed at his house too and has never experienced any issues with the 129 sat dropping out. I would think since you are further east, and a mile higher in the sky than anyone on the shore of the West Coast, you shouldn't be experiencing the "low bird" issues that the left coast is currently experiencing.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RobR7 said:


> I actually got a call back from the Dish dispatcher pretty darn fast. Problem though... 1000s aren't available in this area (NYC, huh?) I have no choice but to believe the man. He sets me up with a real Dish employed installer for this Monday.


The installer and everyone else that says that they don't do Dish1000s in NYC are correct. The local HD channels are on 61.5. It all comes down to that simple fact.


> Why do I feel like I'm trying too hard here?


Because you're trying to herd cats wiithout a license 

What you want and what is necessary are two different things in this case. That the installers were late is unfortunate. If someone at Dish Network told you that you would be getting a Dish1000, they're standard complement of two brain cells must have been depleted of electrolytes.

If you have issues like this in the future, give the denizens of DBSTalk your zip code and let the group take a whack at advising you on what to expect. Sales people don't know and often can't keep track of what is available where. The just follow the script and collect their paycheck. The people here, both friendly  and abrasive , can usually pinpoint what to expect and condition your expectations to make the process a little less uncertain.


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

Yeah, dispatcher said the extra dish was for HD... if it's only for locals plus cbs hd... then maybe I can save five bucks w/ OTA and not get another thing bolted on my roof. Hmmm... decisions, decisions...


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

RobR7 said:


> Yeah, dispatcher said the extra dish was for HD... if it's only for locals plus cbs hd... then maybe I can save five bucks w/ OTA and not get another thing bolted on my roof. Hmmm... decisions, decisions...


If you add an OTA to your setup, you'll still need at least the SD locals so that the receiver can backfill your programming guide for your OTA channels. Without the locals package you can't setup your DVR to record any of the broadcast network programs off of your OTA. You'll just end up with a bunch of blocks in your programming guide for your Locals that say "DIGITAL SERVICE" for every hour of the day.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

sNEIRBO said:


> I think most of the dual dish setups are on the East Coast due to the locals and CBS HD East feed being on the 61 sat. Here in Detroit our CBS station is owned by the company so we can opt to have the second dish installed to pull in 61 to get CBS East HD - I didn't do that because I didn't want 2 saucers on my roof.
> 
> The 1000 dish pulls in Sats 110. 119 & 129. I had a 1000 installed at my house outside of Detroit for about 18 months and never experienced any drop outs from the 129 sat. My brother lives in Durango CO - he has a 1000 installed at his house too and has never experienced any issues with the 129 sat dropping out. I would think since you are further east, and a mile higher in the sky than anyone on the shore of the West Coast, you shouldn't be experiencing the "low bird" issues that the left coast is currently experiencing.


There shouldn't be a problem w/ the 1000 in CO. The areas that need the 2 dishes are the NE and the left coast. The NE needs 61.5 to get the NYC channels, and the left coast has the weak signal problem mostly. Where I live we have to have either 2 dishes or 3. I have 3. I was 1 of the Voom converts so I have the HD off 61.5, center dish for 110/119 and my sd locals off 148. I could have had 2 of the dishes changed out so that I would have the 1000 & the 2nd that is aimed at the 148. Since I already had the 3 installed why bother and leave holes in the roof.


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## bkleven (Jul 8, 2006)

Hmm... Well, I just found the EchoStar Knowledge Base here on DBS Talk and I feel enlightened. If I had found that sooner I would have had a much better idea what I was talking about... RTFM comes into play here I guess.

So, it looks like the 1000 should be no problem here in the Denver area. I also noticed that there was a map that displays the fact that Dish 1000 is unavailable in S. TX, FL, and a big chunk of the northeast. That sucks for RobR7.

I also realized after doing the reading that my understanding of reception problems on the left coast probably is incorrect, but since it doesn't affect me it's not that big of a deal.

So, to tie back in more closely to the original topic, it's probably a good idea to soak up as much from the EKB as possible before calling a sales drone, correct? I had hoped that they would be more knowledgeable, but given all the variations in installations across the country, I guess I could see how they would get confused if they weren't trying all that hard to get it right.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

bkleven said:


> Hmm... Well, I just found the EchoStar Knowledge Base here on DBS Talk and I feel enlightened. If I had found that sooner I would have had a much better idea what I was talking about... RTFM comes into play here I guess.
> 
> So, it looks like the 1000 should be no problem here in the Denver area. I also noticed that there was a map that displays the fact that Dish 1000 is unavailable in S. TX, FL, and a big chunk of the northeast. That sucks for RobR7.
> 
> ...


BINGO. The drones are clueless.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

And depending on what time you call DISH Customer Service, I don't think they're even located in the US . . . I think you know what I mean! It's been my experience that I get better service and more knowledgable people at DISH if I call Tech Support during the day (8am to 6pm ET). Seems like after hours the Sales Support and Customer Service gets redirected overseas.

Overseas customer service is the worst! They can't think off of their script. Watch the episode of "30 Days" called "Outsourcing" FX. It will make you realize how big companies are not only screwing American workers by taking their jobs, but how their screwing the workers they employ in India as well. It won't be long before they want to Unionize, or discover the joys of divorce because their women are starting to be empowered. That country is in for one helluva culture shock!


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

bkleven said:


> I also noticed that there was a map that displays the fact that Dish 1000 is unavailable in S. TX, FL, and a big chunk of the northeast. That sucks for RobR7.


That's exactly what Rob should have been told when he ordered. The map is at http://ekb.dbstalk.com/297


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## RobR7 (Jan 23, 2006)

Yeah it kinda stinks having two dishes... but it doesn't annoy me as much as I thought it would. Maybe because all these extra HD channels rock!

As you can probably tell I finally got it installed...

Thus far, no comparison, I don't know why I waited so long... I know I've only had it for a couple of hours now but I'm quite happy.

I'll give a more calm and thought out review for all the possible switchers a little later (though sorry if it doesn't happen for a few days - I'm going on vacation - What a tease!), but I'm very happy so far.... just gotta get used to the different quirks.

The install went well, except the installer almost got me killed by wife by saying it could only record one show at a time... boy did I get the evil eye, but I knew better.


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