# Has Directv Fixed The Rebooting Bug when theres no signal?



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

After the last update I decided to do a test.
I reset one of my receivers with the cables disconnected and then tried to watch a recording. After 1 hour it had not reset, I then watched a movie and after 2 more hours it still had not reset! It seems that Directv fixed the problem with the last update.

Good news for people in the Hurricane Beltway if True.

Can someone else confirm if this problem is fixed? With previous firmware it reset every 5 - 30 minutes.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I know DIRECTV extended the timeout so that the DVR will let you access your Playlist without sat signal for quite some time, but it's not unlimited. After a set period, it will want to have a sat signal and you'll need to hook it up to regain functionality. I just don't know what that upper limit is ...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

If its 3 hours, thats Ok, at least you can watch a whole movie undisturbed then reboot and watch another.

I have gone through Four Hurricanes and with two of them it took 3 weeks to a month to get a new dish installed. If I can't watch recorded stuff it's a big problem


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> If its 3 hours, thats Ok, at least you can watch a whole movie undisturbed then reboot and watch another.
> 
> I have gone through Four Hurricanes and with two of them it took 3 weeks to a month to get a new dish installed. If I can't watch recorded stuff it's a big problem


A DVR that reboots every three hours for any reason in not at all acceptable, especially rebooting just because there is no satellite signal.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RobertE pointed out that the interval a DVR will go without fresh guide data was 13 hours: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2101180#post2101180.

Presumably the guide absence timer resets upon a reboot.

Authorization is probably an entirely different animal and almost certainly cannot be solved with a reboot.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thats 13 hours if you lose signal! 
NOT if you reboot the system and get no signal to start with.

In the real world you will either be taking the receiver with you on an RV or to a cabin for vacation or your dish may have been blown out of alignment or blown away after a storm. In that case you will be rebooting with no signal and under the old firmware the receiver would reset every 5-30 minutes

IF THE DVR REBOOTS LIKE THIS RECORDINGS WILL ALL BE USELESS AFTER A HURRICANE.



harsh said:


> RobertE pointed out that the interval a DVR will go without fresh guide data was 13 hours: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2101180#post2101180.
> 
> Presumably the guide absence timer resets upon a reboot.
> 
> Authorization is probably an entirely different animal and almost certainly cannot be solved with a reboot.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Thats 13 hours if you lose signal!
> NOT if you reboot the system and get no signal to start with.
> 
> In the real world you will either be taking the receiver with you on an RV or to a cabin for vacation or your dish may have been blown out of alignment or blown away after a storm. In that case you will be rebooting with no signal and under the old firmware the receiver would reset every 5-30 minutes
> ...


Yep, BIG difference between loosing the guide data feed (trees + 119 sat) vs. cold booting with no sat feed at all. The former is going to work up to 13 hours +/-, the later, not so much.


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## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

It will very unpleasant after getting the power restored (one to two weeks after a hurricane) and to realize that your digital OTA ATSC tuner does not work either because you satellite dish was blown away!.

I would not have a problem if Direct TV did NOT disable the OTA tuner of the PVR after a reboot!

South Florida Resident


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

renen said:


> It will very unpleasant after getting the power restored (one to two weeks after a hurricane) and to realize that your digital OTA ATSC tuner does not work either because you satellite dish was blown away!.
> 
> I would not have a problem if Direct TV did NOT disable the OTA tuner of the PVR after a reboot!
> 
> South Florida Resident


I get your point, but forgive me for this ... if a fairly sturdy dish was blown away, chances are a relatively flimsy rooftop OTA antenna is also toast, so really the only lucky ones who could benefit would be those with indoor antennas close enough to receive OTA signals. I do agree that simply for the event of an emergency there should be dispensation that when there is no SAT signal that OTA should still function without limiatation. It could be a matter of life and death in the aftermath of a severe weather situation...


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## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

Who says that I have a flimsy OTA antenna?

I live about 20 miles away from the TV stations antenna field, and my VHF-UHF antenna is up in the attic which gives me a strong signal for all of the network stations and a few independents. Having the antenna in the attic has become popular on the newer houses with large attics, as it gets old very quickly having to replace the TV antenna every few seasons due to tropical storms. 

Of course if I were hit by a powerfull Cat 5 hurricane all bets are off, but otherwise I could power my generator after the storm and watch the news as I did with Wilma a few years ago.

I know that I can move the OTA cable from the HR20-100 directly to the ATSC ready TV on the Family room, but a lot of other people wouldn't know how to do that.

The biggest inconvenience in going digital has been getting rid of the old 9" battery operated TV. I would run it with a car battery and would allow us to follow the newscasters as they tracked the hurricanes, this is a lot better than listening to the NOAA station or even the TV station rebroadcast by a radio station, so far I have not been able to find an ATSC portable TV that works with rabbit ears, I will have to run an antenna cable from the wall jack into the new portable, once I buy a new portable.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

cartrivision said:


> A DVR that reboots every three hours for any reason in not at all acceptable, especially rebooting just because there is no satellite signal.


Hurricanes causing problems .. perhaps .. Someone recording 4TBs of programming and then canceling service to watch recorded programs .. every 3 hours is probably not soon enough


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## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

As I have said before:



renen said:


> I would not have a problem if Direct TV did NOT disable the OTA tuner of the PVR after a reboot!
> 
> South Florida Resident


Let them block all of the previously recorded stuff, but don't make us reboot every three hours and give us access to OTA.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Well that pretty much confirms where you stand!

Let me get this straight, thousands of us in the path of a hurricane must do without any form of TV so that a few dozen people can be stopped from watching archived DVR shows! If thats the thinking at Directv I suggest all the people who live in Hurricane prone states think very carefully before deciding on Directv service.



Doug Brott said:


> Hurricanes causing problems .. perhaps .. Someone recording 4TBs of programming and then canceling service to watch recorded programs .. every 3 hours is probably not soon enough


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Well that pretty much confirms where you stand!
> 
> Let me get this straight, thousands of us in the path of a hurricane must do without any form of TV so that a few dozen people can be stopped from watching archived DVR shows! If thats the thinking at Directv I suggest all the people who live in Hurricane prone states think very carefully before deciding on Directv service.


Assuming your house, antenna & TV survive a hurricane, whats so hard or wrong about using your TVs ATSC tuner or a converter box?


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Well that pretty much confirms where you stand!
> 
> Let me get this straight, thousands of us in the path of a hurricane must do without any form of TV so that a few dozen people can be stopped from watching archived DVR shows! If thats the thinking at Directv I suggest all the people who live in Hurricane prone states think very carefully before deciding on Directv service.


You'll survive, trust me - my parents had to live on generator power for 2 months after Katrina. Watching previously recorded programming was the least of their worries.  They used an old D10 due to the need to power down for extended periods of time to conserve gas.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

renen said:


> It will very unpleasant after getting the power restored (one to two weeks after a hurricane) and to realize that your digital OTA ATSC tuner does not work either because you satellite dish was blown away!.
> 
> I would not have a problem if Direct TV did NOT disable the OTA tuner of the PVR after a reboot!
> 
> South Florida Resident


You could just use your TV's tuner, or if it doesn't have an ATSC tuner, get one. If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should know the value in having alternative means of getting information.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Your Parents :lol: Did you have to survive without it for 2 months?
I have gone for 1 month and trust me it was no picnic. Very easy for people to post about it on forums, another thing completely to go without a proper bath for 2 weeks, to eat food out of tin cans for 2 weeks, to look at a person drinking a drink with an Ice Cube in it and be extremely jealous.

I am pretty much prepared now, after getting caught twice my house is now completely decked out for such problems, including WaterTank, a full Generator system and all the other things I learned the hard way and all of this has served me well for two more hurricanes since.

As part of my preparation, I now realize that the HR2x for a stored medium of shows might as well be a paper weight Until you have lived it, you have no idea how boring it can be after 4 weeks of playing cards, charades and family talks. It does not take long for those to run the gambit and you pretty much end up climbing the walls looking for something to divert your mind from the droning mosquitoes and dry heat that follows every hurricane.



say-what said:


> You'll survive, trust me - my parents had to live on generator power for 2 months after Katrina. Watching previously recorded programming was the least of their worries.  They used an old D10 due to the need to power down for extended periods of time to conserve gas.


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## SledDog (May 6, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Well that pretty much confirms where you stand!
> 
> Let me get this straight, thousands of us in the path of a hurricane must do without any form of TV so that a few dozen people can be stopped from watching archived DVR shows! If thats the thinking at Directv I suggest all the people who live in Hurricane prone states think very carefully before deciding on Directv service.


As a Florida resident, I have a spare dish with a surveyor's transit. I connect and fire up the gen-set (if needed), set up the transit, mount the dish, connect my cabling to "spare" house wiring input installed near where the transit will be set up (this was done as a just in case I loose the primary dish in storm), connect the DVR to the spare cabling at the wall plate, and point/peak the dish.

DONE!

Granted, I'll be using only one tuner, but so what. It's a temporary set up until I can get my fixed dish re-installed.

I got my spare slimline for $25.00 used. The transit was $50.00. And the supplies to fab the mount cost $10.

Why do people need to think long and hard before deciding on DirecTV service if they are in a hurricane area? Just how long to you think cable will be out? I had friends in Port St. Lucie that went 8 week before they got their cable back, after the double hurricanes hit that area.

You just need to add your DirecTV stuff to your after storm plans.  You spent all this money on a generator, a water tanks and so on. Spend a few more bucks and get yourself a spare dish.

And yes, I was one of the utility works running around getting your water/sewer service back on line, so I know what you mean. Add your situation to working 20 hours days for 4 weeks straight, sleeping in an area with leaking roofs, eating MREs for days on end. Running from site to site trying to keep things running. Not being with your family. Listening to people complain that they have no water, they have no sewer service, "when are you people going to get the water fixed!" "I can't flush my toilet! Fix the problem!"

So when you come right down to it, whether or not you can watch what's on your DVR should be one of your last worries.

Besides, you have one more option... You can always move to a place that does not have hurricanes. :bink:


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

SledDog said:


> As a Florida resident, I have a spare dish with a surveyor's transit. I connect and fire up the gen-set (if needed), set up the transit, mount the dish, connect my cabling to "spare" house wiring input installed near where the transit will be set up (this was done as a just in case I loose the primary dish in storm), connect the DVR to the spare cabling at the wall plate, and point/peak the dish.
> 
> DONE!
> 
> ...


I just bring in my dish before the storm comes near. That way as soon as I have power, or turn on a generator, I can put the dish back up and have TV.


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## SledDog (May 6, 2007)

Mine is mounted on a pole. And it extends above the roof line. I figure, if I lose it, I lose it! Besides, if my house is damaged, I can live in my travel trailer and still have access to my DirecTV programming with a spare dish.


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## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

As I previously said, I am well prepared for MOST hurricanes.

My plan is to remove the dish prior to the hurricane,for that purpose I have mounted an extra 4 way grounding block (also grounded) right under the dish in a rain protected location to avoid removing much of the cable, and then after the hurricane I will remount the dish and align it by simply matching the prepainted lines on the mast and bracket and a quick check with a level. I also have my old oval dish and bracket stored in the garage which will provide for SD programming if the slimline mount left outside were to be damaged. A 25KW generator with 400 gallons of LPG which should provide a maximum of a 7X24 power and a lot more if wisely managed, a 35 gallon drinking water tank, as I am fedup with buying one gallon bottles, accordion shutters on most windows and shutter panels on the remaining openings of the house.

I repeat, I am pretty well prepared for MOST hurricanes, I have made a point to be prepared and also have spent pre recession $$$ doing it, as I could not afford to do it on today's economy!

Most households consider themselves lucky if they have is a 3 or 5 KW generator enough to run a TV, the refrigerator, a couple of lights and a fan to survive for a couple of weeks or more without power. Having small children during the heat of the summer inside the house with temperatures and humidity in the 90's is not fun without some entertaiment. South Florida was sold by FPL on electric appliances and I would guesstimate that 90% or more have electric stoves and ovens as most neighborhoods do not have natural gas as it is too expensive to run for the volume we consume, as it is not use for heating.

I am not asking for myself, but for others, for DIRECTV to allow a few weeks of use of the OTA tuner on their equipment to receive over-the-air signals, and if possible the recorded shows. They could send a magic-bullet type signal to allow using their equipment for a few days without a dish connection to areas about to be hit by a hurricane, and considering that most subscribers appear to be paying with credit cards, I wonder how much revenue they would really lose and how much goodwill and customers they could gain as Cable TV will be down for weeks or months!!

This is only my opinion, and really believe that one way or another I should not be greatly affected in most cases, unless its a really big one with a direct hit on my house. Remember that you usually get 2 to 3 days of warning with a hurricane, only minutes with a tornado and no warning with an earthquake! 

Oh, and sorry about the length (humbly getting of my soap box)


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## SledDog (May 6, 2007)

As Drew2K mentioned, if you lose your dish, you're gonna lose an outside antenna.

If you have an indoor antenna, why not connect it to the tv directly? If the tv is does not have a digital tuner, spent 40 bucks and get a converter box. That way you won't need your directv equipment.

Also, you should not be depending on your tv for critical updates. That's why you need to have a battery powered radio. Just in case.


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## drill (Jun 28, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Hurricanes causing problems .. perhaps .. Someone recording 4TBs of programming and then canceling service to watch recorded programs .. every 3 hours is probably not soon enough


ok, if that's the real reason (and i think it probably is), hit the nail with a hammer, not a nuclear bomb.

a simple solution, that would solve 99.9% of this is tie access to recorded programs to DVR authorization on the card. the card authorization is for a limited time (i think its on the order of 4-6 weeks). every so often, directv sends info in the stream to refresh your services. if the receiver isn't connected to a dish, it will not refresh the service, and it will go away after 4-6 weeks.

it shouldn't matter if a hurricane, tornado, or a drunk mother-in-law runs over your dish ... if you are authorized for DVR service, direcTV should allow the DVR to be used.

worried about someone recording 4TBs of programming and cancelling service? great, they can watch their 4TBs of programming for 4-6 weeks, then its useless. i can't believe DirecTV would be concerned about that.

problem solved. i can take my DVR with me on my 2 week vacation, and watch queued programming. when a hurricane moves rennen's dish to nebraska, he can watch his recorded programming until he gets a new dish. neither one of us is "stealing". so why punish us when there is a simple fix that mitigates the "stealing" issue without affecting the paying customer?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

The only problem is without a sat connection a receiver cant get the authorization or de-authorization signal


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

drill said:


> worried about someone recording 4TBs of programming and cancelling service? great, they can watch their 4TBs of programming for 4-6 weeks, then its useless. i can't believe DirecTV would be concerned about that.


This presumes that the scofflaw has purchased their DVRs. For the large majority of hooligans who would do this, they must return the receiver within a rather short time period.

What you're left with is a relative handful of those who get an extra few days after they cancel versus those who need TV access at a very important time. It is folly to assume that OTA is always going to be available after a major storm. My recollection of Hurricane Katrina was that many of the local broadcast channels (both TV and radio) went dark for a considerable time period.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Who really cares, this is such a small number of people that it's not even worth doing anything about. Thats like D* removing the RGB ports so that Hauppaguage 1212 owners cant record the HD stuff. Geeez thats going to mess with 500 people at the expense of 1 million people.



CCarncross said:


> The only problem is without a sat connection a receiver cant get the authorization or de-authorization signal


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Dude at least you understand what it's like, now wouldnt it be nice to come home after that hard days work and be able to kick back and watch some TV?
Yes a second dish is an option but then why go through all that when all they need to do is make sure people can watch their stocked up recordings.



SledDog said:


> As a Florida resident, I have a spare dish with a surveyor's transit. I connect and fire up the gen-set (if needed), set up the transit, mount the dish, connect my cabling to "spare" house wiring input installed near where the transit will be set up (this was done as a just in case I loose the primary dish in storm), connect the DVR to the spare cabling at the wall plate, and point/peak the dish.
> 
> DONE!
> 
> ...


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Hurricanes causing problems .. perhaps .. Someone recording 4TBs of programming and then canceling service to watch recorded programs .. every 3 hours is probably not soon enough


[sarcasm]Yeah, that's *REALLY* a *HUGE* potential problem for DirecTV. [/sarcasm] That's got to be one of the worst excuses that anyone could fabricate for this bug which will cause thousands of other customers to experience spontaneous reboots while accomplishing what?????? Preventing a couple of rogue "bandits" from watching recorded material that they paid for when it was recorded???? Please! The software has enough bugs that go unaddressed. Let's not make up bad excuses for DirecTV to leave in bugs that cause unacceptable spontaneous reboots.


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## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

harsh said:


> My recollection of Hurricane Katrina was that many of the local broadcast channels (both TV and radio) went dark for a considerable time period.


Katrina was a very special Hurricane, and most of the damage was caused by the flooding. Hurricane Andrew, if memory server me right, left all but one TV station working, as the Hurricane hit the southern part of the county and the TV stations antenna farm is at the northern end of the county.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

renen said:


> Katrina was a very special Hurricane, and most of the damage was caused by the flooding. Hurricane Andrew, if memory server me right, left all but one TV station working, as the Hurricane hit the southern part of the county and the TV stations antenna farm is at the northern end of the county.


And this is important to those who lose use of their equipment when they need it most how?


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## renen (Jul 16, 2007)

harsh said:


> And this is important to those who lose use of their equipment when they need it most how?


It is just in reference to a comment that was made as New Orleans having all or most of the TV stations down after Katrina. That Hurricane caused a unique problem because of the flooding.

In most cases the TV stations have survived, and the issue of the need to use the DirectTv equipment as digital converters for some of those individuals receiving OTA to watch the local news after losing their dish.


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## drill (Jun 28, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> The only problem is without a sat connection a receiver cant get the authorization or de-authorization signal


i don't think you get it.

the authorization is refreshed often, and typically lasts 4-6 weeks. if the refresh happens once a week, and the authorization is for 4 weeks, then users would be guaranteed access for 3 weeks without a sat signal. no need for the sat to be connected to get refreshed for those 3 weeks.

there is NO need for deauthorization. if a user disconnects their receiver, it will automatically deauthorize after at most 4 weeks because it hasn't been refreshed. so yes, its possible for the user to disconnect their receiver, cancel their account, and then continue to watch their recordings for up to 4 weeks. but after that ... the receiver is not authorized, so they can't continue to "steal" by watching their recorded programs. i can't imagine that directv is really that concerned about that 4 week period for users that have purchased their receivers. if they haven't purchased their receivers, they have to send them back to directv anyway.


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## looter (Oct 1, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Hurricanes causing problems .. perhaps .. Someone recording 4TBs of programming and then canceling service to watch recorded programs .. every 3 hours is probably not soon enough


That is such a ridiculous statement it is absurd.

And what exactly is the problem with that? If someone recorded the equivalent of 4TB to a VCR then canceled their service, would you advocate DIRECTV going and erasing their video tapes as well? What ever happened to FAIR USE?

I recently had a tree that grew just enough to degrade my signal to about 40-50 on most sats. I rebooted the HR21-700/AM21 and it wouldn't work AT ALL because the signal wasn't strong enough. No OTAs which were 100% and no pre-recorded shows. Yet on my aging yet trusty HR10-250 (as well as 2 SD Tivo DVRs) I could do both; watch pre-recorded shows and watch OTAs.

Why can I watch pre-recorded shows (and OTAs) without sat signal on THREE DVRs I got from DIRECTV and not on the OTHER one?

Because DIRECTV made the one that doesn't work.

There is no valid reason for this. DIRECTV is just being lazy and has bad code in this never-will-be-finished DVR line.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Well from what I can see it seems that Directv took out the reboot code, so at least for now someone in power at Directv has used common sense and fixed what was obviously a stupid knee jerk reaction to a small problem.

This brings up a bigger problem with the whole HR2X series, and I think many Senior Forum Members including Doug etc. have fallen into this trap. 

JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD!

Directv is enjoying this new found high that they have gotten from the ability to write and make there own changes to the Firmware without having to consult third part engineers. In the past I am sure many Dumb ideas from Directv management where cut short when a Tivo engineer would say "Yeah but if we do that we will also mess up that!" a few head scratches and the Directv manager would say yeah your right, never thought of that! Now days there is no Tivo safety net so they go out and do whatever the managers wake up in the morning and think is a good idea.

This is the number one reason this DVR has been such a dismal failure! Yep even if every bug was fixed tomorrow, the receiver will still go down as one of the worst failures ever made, the only other product that I know of that has been worked on this much and is still problematic is Windows Vista. For the HR2X it's been 3+ freaking years and they are still fixing the code! Most products don't even have a production life of three years much less a "Optimization / Bug" period of that length.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

dreadlk;
This is the number one reason this DVR has been such a dismal failure! Yep even if every bug was fixed tomorrow said:


> I guess I missed something, I have been enjoying my two "failures" for almost three years now.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

No device goes through 30-50 updates and has a forum full of complaints and numerous dismal Internet reviews unless it's a failure!

Dont worry, I get it! Some people like the whole CE aspect of things, they enjoy looking forward to what each new week of CE will bring. Yep thats great if you have a few DVR's and can set two of them to record your shows, one as a backup. Then have a third receiver to mess around with and play with CE's. For normal people in a house with ONE DVR and a wife! The endless bugs, reboots and missed recordings over the years has not been pleasant, and while I fully admit things have gotten much better, the HR2X has had a long bumpy bug filled road.



davring said:


> I guess I missed something, I have been enjoying my two "failures" for almost three years now.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

davring said:


> I guess I missed something, I have been enjoying my two "failures" for almost three years now.


Yep, and me my 4 "failures" and my parents their 1 "failure".....  I had more problems with my DirecTIVO's than I've had with all 4 of my HR2x's combined. Guess the DirecTIVO was a bigger failure.... :lol:


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## looter (Oct 1, 2007)

say-what said:


> Yep, and me my 4 "failures" and my parents their 1 "failure".....  I had more problems with my DirecTIVO's than I've had with all 4 of my HR2x's combined. Guess the DirecTIVO was a bigger failure.... :lol:


Really...

Just another day in the life with an HR2X...

[post=2140667]2140667[/post]


MLBurks said:


> > Quote:
> > Originally Posted by MLBurks
> > HR21-200
> >
> ...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Look I have been in your shoes, I am actually still in your shoes, I Mod a Forum that is dedicated to a product and I know exactly what it's like to be talking to the CEO of the company and at the same time dealing with complaining forum members. You play the game and try to act like everything is fine, you learn responses like "I have personally never had that Problem" but your sympathetic ladi da da. Been there done that, I know the fine line and that's why I take everything posted by Beta Testers and Forum Mods on product based forums with a grain of salt, because I know the shoes you guys wear.

In regards to HR2x's place in history, it's already a guaranteed failure. It would be like Microsoft releasing Windows 7 and then saying "Look we have a perfect OS, Finaly we are a success!" 
Like nobody is ever going to remember all the miserable versions that came before it, Windows ME and Vista will live on for decades. Just like the HR2X will always have a stigma of failure attached to it.

To people who need facts, they need look no further than a search on Google, Epinion, Cnet and others to find out how the Directivo complaints and reviews stacked up against the HR2X's. Nuff said, people can search and decide



say-what said:


> Yep, and me my 4 "failures" and my parents their 1 "failure".....  I had more problems with my DirecTIVO's than I've had with all 4 of my HR2x's combined. Guess the DirecTIVO was a bigger failure.... :lol:


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> You play the game and try to act like everything is fine, you learn responses like "I have personally never had that Problem" but your sympathetic ladi da da. Been there done that, I know the fine line and that's why I take everything posted by Beta Testers and Forum Mods on product based forums with a grain of salt, because I know the shoes you guys wear.


You're getting nothing but my personal, unbiased opinion - I have nothing to gain and no agenda in posting any comments - and yes, I have not had problems with my HR2x's and find them to be perfectly reliable DVR's. But, hey, if you want to believe I'm sugar coating things and part of some conspiracy to propogate positive feedback regarding the HR2x, be my guest, but you may want to get your tin foil hat refitted. :lol:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Hurricanes causing problems .. perhaps .. Someone recording 4TBs of programming and then canceling service to watch recorded programs .. every 3 hours is probably not soon enough





looter said:


> That is such a ridiculous statement it is absurd.
> 
> And what exactly is the problem with that? If someone recorded the equivalent of 4TB to a VCR then canceled their service, would you advocate DIRECTV going and erasing their video tapes as well? What ever happened to FAIR USE?


Depends .. Since VCRs don't have encrypted video, they do not fall under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) but DO in fact fall under Fair Use (assuming you're not copying them and distributing them to others). However, DIRECTV encrypts the programming so that the contact is in fact protected by the DMCA. As such, when you cancel service, you no longer have the legal right to decrypt the programming. Fair Use doesn't apply.



> I recently had a tree that grew just enough to degrade my signal to about 40-50 on most sats. I rebooted the HR21-700/AM21 and it wouldn't work AT ALL because the signal wasn't strong enough. No OTAs which were 100% and no pre-recorded shows. Yet on my aging yet trusty HR10-250 (as well as 2 SD Tivo DVRs) I could do both; watch pre-recorded shows and watch OTAs.
> 
> Why can I watch pre-recorded shows (and OTAs) without sat signal on THREE DVRs I got from DIRECTV and not on the OTHER one?
> 
> ...


DIRECTV has to authorize the programming. The older receivers did allow extended viewing of recorded material, but DIRECTV has made a decision to no longer do this. Likely the content providers have required this in much the same what content providers have restricted PPVs to 24-hours.

The simple answer is you need a dish and the receivers need to be connected to your dish to get programming.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> This brings up a bigger problem with the whole HR2X series, and I think many Senior Forum Members including Doug etc. have fallen into this trap.
> 
> JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD!


So I've fallen into the trap of doing something that perhaps I shouldn't have .. 

For the record .. I DON'T WORK FOR DIRECTV! .. I do not have access to the source code for any receiver, nor have I ever seen it. I merely facilitate the communication between DBSTalk and DIRECTV. I'm not exactly sure how I'm in a trap here.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

SledDog said:


> As a Florida resident, I have a spare dish with a surveyor's transit. I connect and fire up the gen-set (if needed), set up the transit, mount the dish, connect my cabling to "spare" house wiring input installed near where the transit will be set up (this was done as a just in case I loose the primary dish in storm), connect the DVR to the spare cabling at the wall plate, and point/peak the dish.
> 
> DONE!
> 
> ...


Such a simple solution--a 2nd dish. 

You've done a great job putting this all in perspective: there are worse things in life, a dish is a simple, inexpensive addition to crisis planning (especially compared to many other things), and that cable can be out even longer. Heck, DIRECTV could be the fastest thing to return if one had a replacement dish already with tripod prepared and the dish preset.

SledDog, thank you for all your hard work restoring other people's utilities. Yes, it is/was your job, but you deserve thanks all the same. And thank you for this great post.

Cheers,
Tom


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

I hope that you openly and plain state to the members of the forum you MOD that you speak regularly to the CEO.

You seem to want to assault the integrity of the mods around DBSTalks... you certainly are entitled to your opinion, but I have never seen a more transparent and above board bunch of dedicated folks in my life. I also have been around long enough to see what happened when a mod here decided to accept a job with DirecTV. He immediately withdrew himself from the forum so there would be no conflict of interest.

I have no axe to grind. I have had an HR20-700 nearly since it came out. It works exactly as it is supposed to on a day to day basis. Of course I have a properly installed dish with the correct lnb and good solid wiring, so perhaps that gives me an advantage. I am happy with the unit. I have added an HR23-700 and I am happy with that unit as well.

I find it amusing that you make mention of the CNET reviews that were done 3 years ago.

I am not sure what your purpose is but I do not need to google my units for reviews.. I own them and they work. If you are having problems with yours, get help with them or, as any sensible person who is as unhappy as you are find units and a vendor that make you happy.

You unjustly impeach our moderators with false claims.

I object to that.

Larry



dreadlk said:


> Look I have been in your shoes, I am actually still in your shoes, I Mod a Forum that is dedicated to a product and I know exactly what it's like to be talking to the CEO of the company and at the same time dealing with complaining forum members. You play the game and try to act like everything is fine, you learn responses like "I have personally never had that Problem" but your sympathetic ladi da da. Been there done that, I know the fine line and that's why I take everything posted by Beta Testers and Forum Mods on product based forums with a grain of salt, because I know the shoes you guys wear.
> 
> In regards to HR2x's place in history, it's already a guaranteed failure. It would be like Microsoft releasing Windows 7 and then saying "Look we have a perfect OS, Finaly we are a success!"
> Like nobody is ever going to remember all the miserable versions that came before it, Windows ME and Vista will live on for decades. Just like the HR2X will always have a stigma of failure attached to it.
> ...


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Your Parents :lol: Did you have to survive without it for 2 months?
> I have gone for 1 month and trust me it was no picnic. Very easy for people to post about it on forums, another thing completely to go without a proper bath for 2 weeks, to eat food out of tin cans for 2 weeks, to look at a person drinking a drink with an Ice Cube in it and be extremely jealous.
> 
> I am pretty much prepared now, after getting caught twice my house is now completely decked out for such problems, including WaterTank, a full Generator system and all the other things I learned the hard way and all of this has served me well for two more hurricanes since.
> ...


I find it funny that you are really upset at Directv for doing something to protect themselves by making boxes confirm they are authorized every so often, because during a disaster that is a rare event, its that important to have tv.. It think your priorities should be things like watter and power far more than TV... and you can live without tv for a while... I do not see any reason Direct, or any other tv provider should make a system with the idea that they have to provide you with tv programs, even when power is out... without the ability to confirm your a paying subscriber, for an extended period of time.. No one does, and no one ever will.... Its not logical...


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> No device goes through 30-50 updates and has a forum full of complaints and numerous dismal Internet reviews unless it's a failure!
> 
> Dont worry, I get it! Some people like the whole CE aspect of things, they enjoy looking forward to what each new week of CE will bring. Yep thats great if you have a few DVR's and can set two of them to record your shows, one as a backup. Then have a third receiver to mess around with and play with CE's. For normal people in a house with ONE DVR and a wife! The endless bugs, reboots and missed recordings over the years has not been pleasant, and while I fully admit things have gotten much better, the HR2X has had a long bumpy bug filled road.


You must be kidding? 30-50 updates is on the minimal side of how often anything goes through updates....

And just surf around, you will find all kinds of forum sites posting issues about all kinds of companies, including every cable provider, and others too...

And internet reviews that are years old? Not relevant... And since when does any product have consumers posting more positive revues than negative ones online? Never.. People are much more eager to complain than to spend the time to say good job....


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> People are much more eager to complain than to spend the time to say good job....


this thread is proof positive.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Do what I do, I have a 7" digital tuner LCD for emergencies.. runs a long time off of a battery.. was only 120$ IIRC..


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

houskamp said:


> Do what I do, I have a 7" digital tuner LCD for emergencies.. runs a long time off of a battery.. was only 120$ IIRC..


Any one of these? http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/979930011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_4_last


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

houskamp said:


> Do what I do, I have a 7" digital tuner LCD for emergencies.. runs a long time off of a battery.. was only 120$ IIRC..


I've been thinking of getting one. What did you buy? Do you like it?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> Such a simple solution--a 2nd dish.


Heck, *I* have a 2nd dish and I live in the Midwest! Of course a tornado could take my dish out at any time too. If I lived in Hurricane country I would have a 2nd dish and tripod already setup ready to go so that all I had to do was put it up and be done with it. Very simple and cheap to add to your emergency plan (assuming you consider TV an emergency).


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Heck, *I* have a 2nd dish and I live in the Midwest! Of course a tornado could take my dish out at any time too. If I lived in Hurricane country I would have a 2nd dish and tripod already setup ready to go so that all I had to do was put it up and be done with it. Very simple and cheap to add to your emergency plan (assuming you consider TV an emergency).


I do need to get that spare dish and tripod.....I did just get a small ATSC TV that has a battery and can operate via the car's cigarette lighter.



litzdog911 said:


> I've been thinking of getting one. What did you buy? Do you like it?


I got the Haier: http://www.amazon.com/Haier-HLT71-7..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1JNQKETJE71Z7P6ASKVD

Not too bad - of course the antenna's included with any of these are going to be limited, but the Haier, and I think most others, also have a coax input.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Really I dont know where you get your stuff from but all of my other Satellite receivers have had maybe one or two updates at best. While I agree that some complicated devices may get more updates to add features, most of these update move the product forward at all times and do not do the Texas 2 step of an upgrade that fixes one problem and creates two new one's.

The CNet review is still getting new people adding onto it every week and the reviews are still NOT good. I dont give a rats ass about what CNet themself has to say, I am looking at what the user reviews are saying and those are getting updated daily.

And dont be crazy, of course people write lots of good reviews, when the product is good.

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...xl-dvr/4852-6474_7-33231115.html?tag=mncol;uo

http://reviews.cnet.com/portable-vi...cond/4852-6499_7-33248627.html?tag=mncol;psum

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-...-pro/4852-6482_7-33002556.html?tag=mncol;psum

http://reviews.cnet.com/consoles/sony-playstation-3-80gb/4852-10109_7-32733576.html?tag=mncol;psum

Now here is the HR2X sorted by the most recent reviews.
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vid...52-6474_7-32065196.html?ord=creationDate+desc

It gets a whole lot worst if you sort the reviews by what people thought was the most usefull reviews. BTW CNet is just one of dozens of sites with dismal reviews, it's almost in legue with Vista.



inkahauts said:


> You must be kidding? 30-50 updates is on the minimal side of how often anything goes through updates....
> 
> And just surf around, you will find all kinds of forum sites posting issues about all kinds of companies, including every cable provider, and others too...
> 
> And internet reviews that are years old? Not relevant... And since when does any product have consumers posting more positive revues than negative ones online? Never.. People are much more eager to complain than to spend the time to say good job....


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

And what I mean by that is that you believe that stopping a few hundred people who might be watching recordings that are stored on there HD is more important to snuff out, even if it's at the expense of all the people who are legitimately subscribed but will have no service after a hurricane. Add into that all the people who own RV's, Boats and Vacation Cabins.

The trap is that after a while you start to feel more compassionate towards the company's interest than the users. Please do not take this the wrong way; because I got myself into that same position until I decided to take issue with the company involved and let them know I was not going to soften the blows when they F'd up.



Doug Brott said:


> So I've fallen into the trap of doing something that perhaps I shouldn't have ..
> 
> For the record .. I DON'T WORK FOR DIRECTV! .. I do not have access to the source code for any receiver, nor have I ever seen it. I merely facilitate the communication between DBSTalk and DIRECTV. I'm not exactly sure how I'm in a trap here.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> The CNet review is still getting new people adding onto it every week and the reviews are still NOT good.


Yea, and most of them are crying because it's not a Tivo. Wahhhhhhh. :hurah:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> And what I mean by that is that you believe that stopping a few hundred people who might be watching recordings that are stored on there HD is more important to snuff out, even if it's at the expense of all the people who are legitimately subscribed but will have no service after a hurricane. Add into that all the people who own RV's, Boats and Vacation Cabins.


So your first assumption is that you know the statistics. Nice guess, but open a gaping hole and watch all the crooks walk in.



> The trap is that after a while you start to feel more compassionate towards the company's interest than the users. Please do not take this the wrong way; because I got myself into that same position until I decided to take issue with the company involved and let them know I was not going to soften the blows when they F'd up.


Second assumption .. That I'm just like you. I'm here because of my passion. I want both the DIRECTV service and programming to get better. I'm here to help in that process. There are productive ways to do that and there are non-productive ways to do that. I choose the former.

In this particular case, what would you even suggest? Should DIRECTV make recordings viewable forever? What if their contracts with the content owner make this impossible? Your Service requires a dish .. moving a receiver to a different location is against the Terms of Service with DIRECTV .. Why should DIRECTV make modifications to make that possible?

You're initial concern had to do with hurricanes .. Things happen and Dishes become broken. If it concerns you, get prepared with a second dish that you can keep inside and deploy if necessary. Get an 18" dish that only sees 101°. Those are pretty easy to aim and can hang on a tripod. You may even be able to have it ready to go before the power is up and once you have power the "fix" is an easy adjustment .. not to mention that you will then have access to the news which is probably more important than watching last year's season finale of Heroes** anyway

** Heroes is an example and my not apply in your specific case.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

A quick check of this thread doesn't seem to have anything about a UPS.
If you don't lose power, the DVR doesn't reboot.
Seems like an easy "option".


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

UPS and Generator, but that dont help if the Dish is gone.



veryoldschool said:


> A quick check of this thread doesn't seem to have anything about a UPS.
> If you don't lose power, the DVR doesn't reboot.
> Seems like an easy "option".


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

1) Yes I have a fair idea that very very few people add in a 2 GB hard drive, and only a handfull of people have put in your 4Gb raid system that was mentioned. Add to that the fact that almost all those people are TV fanatics and only a fraction of them would drop their subscriptions, Yes I think the number is very very low in comparison to the Millions of people who live in Hurricane Alley!

2) I suggest that Directv make the recording viewable for periods that are at least measured in months and not just Minutes! Dont you think that is fair?

3) Setting up a second dish on a Tripod etc etc is just another thing that one has to keep to be prepared for an event that seems to happen about once every 3-4 years, the list of things kind of gets long and why go through all that when all I need is a DVR that can play stored shows for at least a Month! This is why FIOS is just grabbing up every area they go into, you don't need a UPS to keep the system from rebooting and going on a 10 minute bootup. The Fiberoptic cable will most likely survive any hurricane and the recordings dont get messed with.

4) Your here for your passion, and so was I. I can appreciate that, Just don't let your passion for the company and the products blind you to the mistakes they make. It's very hard to get into what a person is saying if they only tote the company line.



Doug Brott said:


> So your first assumption is that you know the statistics. Nice guess, but open a gaping hole and watch all the crooks walk in.
> 
> Second assumption .. That I'm just like you. I'm here because of my passion. I want both the DIRECTV service and programming to get better. I'm here to help in that process. There are productive ways to do that and there are non-productive ways to do that. I choose the former.
> 
> ...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> UPS and Generator, but that dont help if the Dish is gone.


 If the signal is lost and power hasn't been, you are able to watch recordings for a while. Why doesn't this help?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> The Fiberoptic cable will most likely survive any hurricane and the recordings dont get messed with.


Only if underground and don't count on a 10-15 min reboot when you do have problems.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> 3) Setting up a second dish on a Tripod etc etc is just another thing that one has to keep to be prepared for an event that seems to happen about once every 3-4 years, the list of things kind of gets long and why go through all that when all I need is a DVR that can play stored shows for at least a Month!


Got it. So basically you refuse to spend $25 to get a backup dish. If so then quit complaining that you lost your dish.



> This is why FIOS is just grabbing up every area they go into, you don't need a UPS to keep the system from rebooting and going on a 10 minute bootup. The Fiberoptic cable will most likely survive any hurricane and the recordings dont get messed with.


Only if it's underground, which is very unlikely in most areas. FIOS is no different then cable. Hurricane comes thru cable may be out a month or two due to down lines everywhere. DirecTV and Dish are back up as soon as you turn on the generator and put up the spare dish if your old one was destroyed. My father and step mom were in Florida during the year they got hit with 4 hurricanes (Francis?) They were without power for a week. But they had a generator. They were the only ones with satellite TV. Cable for all their friends was out for 3 weeks. But they had TV going the next day and everyone was over at their house.

You can either plan or you can cry and moan. The answers for you are pretty simple. But you continue to choose to ignore them. Oh well, your loss.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> 1) Yes I have a fair idea that very very few people add in a 2 GB hard drive, and only a handfull of people have put in your 4Gb raid system that was mentioned. Add to that the fact that almost all those people are TV fanatics and only a fraction of them would drop their subscriptions, Yes I think the number is very very low in comparison to the Millions of people who live in Hurricane Alley!
> 
> 2) I suggest that Directv make the recording viewable for periods that are at least measured in months and not just Minutes! Dont you think that is fair?
> 
> ...


Let me understand the point of this thread: Something happens once every 3 or 4 years.
You've spent thousands of $$ to protect yourself from future occurrences of the something.
You're list of "things to do" is too long for when that something does occur.
The solution is $50, an hour or two of prep, and 10 minutes when the something happens.
The alternatives don't require a UPS or generator but the TV does?
The alternatives can easily go out for weeks or months.
If you implement the solution you would be the neighborhood hero. ​But you want DIRECTV to implement a different solution that puts them at risk for known illegal activities.

I guess I'm missing something here.

I do understand the desire for TV after long, long days of work cleaning up after hurricanes, tornadoes, blizzards, etc. And I definitely would prepare. But I don't understand the preference to blame DIRECTV moreso than the other utility companies.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

One other thought .. Buy a bunch of DVDs, get a $60 DVD player and watch those programs if the dish cannot be restored quickly. That's not much different than watching content pre-recorded on your DVR.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Let me ask you, why should I get two complete dishes and have one just taking up space in my garage?

While I am at it, why not get two of everything in life, you never know when any item might die!

Point is that Directv decided to once again use there power to limit what the receiver can do so that they could stop a handfull of people from watching movies after there subscription was up. Now if these people had bought a Hauppauge 1212 and recorded all the shows that way would it still be a problem of "illegal activities" at Directv?

Why do I need to get a second Dish, so that I can watch recordings that I already paid for and am still paying for? You dont have to do it with other providers and at least for now Directv has realized this and fixed the problem. I just hope they dont go back because believe me when a hurricane hits, they are going to be hearing about it from thousands of pissed off customers while they wait for new dishes to be installed.



Tom Robertson said:


> Let me understand the point of this thread: Something happens once every 3 or 4 years.
> You've spent thousands of $$ to protect yourself from future occurrences of the something.
> You're list of "things to do" is too long for when that something does occur.
> The solution is $50, an hour or two of prep, and 10 minutes when the something happens.
> ...


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

It is unfortunate that many people have force the studios and providers to in turn force pay TV providers into certain limitations. But that has happened.

Knowing that, you have choices to make in how to handle a once every 3 or 4 year situation. Unfortunately you've chosen to take your anger out upon DIRECTV and spend your time and effort bashing and whining rather than just solving the problem.

You don't seem to mind taking up space with a generator. Spending lots of money preparing. But a small amount of space and money is apparently too much for you. 

Me, I'd like to have access to live TV after the hurricane hit. I would think updated info would be very useful. 

Oh well, it is your choice for time, energy, and money. 

For others reading, anytime DIRECTV upgrades a dish, you might consider asking for the old one to keep for this kind of situation. I still have a couple dishes from upgrades. They are easily setup and aligned. Tho I do not have a tripod as our house isn't in a likely natural disaster zone, I certainly would if i lived in one. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Any one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





litzdog911 said:


> I've been thinking of getting one. What did you buy? Do you like it?


 #2.. 
works pretty well.. has a 2hr rechargeable battery inside, comes with 110v and 12v cords..
sensitivity is a little less than I would hope but an external ant fixes that..


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Or you could move to a safer area..


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Let me ask you, why should I get two complete dishes and have one just taking up space in my garage?
> 
> While I am at it, why not get two of everything in life, you never know when any item might die!
> 
> ...


Move to Alaska.. They don't have hurricanes... And when their earthquakes hit, you won't have a tv left to watch anyway, so the dish not being properly aligned won't matter...

Does that seem like an over the top ridiculous suggestion? If it doesn't your beyond me.. If it does, do you not understand that is EXACTLY what you are telling Directv to do. To do something that is not at all necessary to fix the issue... and honestly, there isn't even an issue here.. With a second backup dish, you can be up and running after a Massive disaster faster than any other service, and get out of market tv stations for news, when if the disaster was big enough, would be your only choice because your local stations may go down..


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Yea, boggles the mind it does. I think dread just wants to blame DirecTV for something so simply avoided it's just become principle to him I'd guess.

Heck, I have a 2nd dish because an ice storm could take my dish out. Or could a tornado. Likelihood of that happening is remote but it came in handy a couple years ago when my LNB went bad. I was up and running with TV right away while I waited 2 weeks for a new LNB/dish. Sure was happy to have that backup dish. And I didn't pay for it either cause it was my old Phase 3 dish (well, paid for it many, many years ago I guess you could say). Garage sale or eBay will get you a 2nd dish for nearly nothing.


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## looter (Oct 1, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> It is unfortunate that many people have force the studios and providers to in turn force pay TV providers into certain limitations. But that has happened.
> 
> Knowing that, you have choices to make in how to handle a once every 3 or 4 year situation. Unfortunately you've chosen to take your anger out upon DIRECTV and spend your time and effort bashing and whining rather than just solving the problem.
> 
> ...


Do you still feel this way...

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090629-711145.html


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## looter (Oct 1, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, boggles the mind it does. I think dread just wants to blame DirecTV for something so simply avoided it's just become principle to him I'd guess.
> 
> Heck, I have a 2nd dish because an ice storm could take my dish out. Or could a tornado. Likelihood of that happening is remote but it came in handy a couple years ago when my LNB went bad. I was up and running with TV right away while I waited 2 weeks for a new LNB/dish. Sure was happy to have that backup dish. And I didn't pay for it either cause it was my old Phase 3 dish (well, paid for it many, many years ago I guess you could say). Garage sale or eBay will get you a 2nd dish for nearly nothing.


Tell me again what the GOOD REASONS are that I can't use my HR21-700/AM21 when a tree grows in front of it but I can access recorded content and OTAs from my HR10-250 in the same situation...


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Tom I have spent my money on the essential items like beefing up the houses structrural integrity, backup Water and Electricity.
I am not seeking to have everything 100% perfect after a hurricane, if I wanted that it would cost a small fortune. Having my stored up recording that I have paid for being made available is something that does not require any work etc. on my part, it should just be there. As for news etc. I can get that via radio and I also have my ham Radio gear.



Tom Robertson said:


> It is unfortunate that many people have force the studios and providers to in turn force pay TV providers into certain limitations. But that has happened.
> 
> Knowing that, you have choices to make in how to handle a once every 3 or 4 year situation. Unfortunately you've chosen to take your anger out upon DIRECTV and spend your time and effort bashing and whining rather than just solving the problem.
> 
> ...


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Jeez it's like you just cant get your head out of directv's
Why do I have to buy and keep a second dish just so I can watch recordings that I recorded and that I paid for ????????????????????????????????????

Why is it so hard for you to understand. I don't need to see an up to date CNN report after a Hurricane hits, I am right in the middle of the crap I know that there is no water and that the roads are a mess etc etc. This may all be interesting to people in CA or Nebraska but for the people in the middle of it you dont want to spend your nights hearing more about your own misery, what you would like to do is watch a movie, catch up on a few comedies and get your mind off the misery for a few hours. And in the day time be able to have your kids be able to watch all there favorite shows that have been recorded. My son has every episode of Handy Manny, Fireman Sam, Sponge Bob etc and if he can watch those he's literally a "happy camper".



bonscott87 said:


> Yea, boggles the mind it does. I think dread just wants to blame DirecTV for something so simply avoided it's just become principle to him I'd guess.
> 
> Heck, I have a 2nd dish because an ice storm could take my dish out. Or could a tornado. Likelihood of that happening is remote but it came in handy a couple years ago when my LNB went bad. I was up and running with TV right away while I waited 2 weeks for a new LNB/dish. Sure was happy to have that backup dish. And I didn't pay for it either cause it was my old Phase 3 dish (well, paid for it many, many years ago I guess you could say). Garage sale or eBay will get you a 2nd dish for nearly nothing.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

In almost all cases It is underground and like the Land line Telephone networks is the most reliable form of communication on the Planet (Period).

When all other utilities fail a landline phone almost always works, and the same applies for fiberoptic systems since they use the same methods of piping, self powering systems etc.



veryoldschool said:


> Only if underground and don't count on a 10-15 min reboot when you do have problems.


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Lets see, some sort of consensus that it is in the best interest of Directv users that we should be able to watch the recording we paid for at anytime and especially after a natural disaster even if, we no longer have a signal. Instead of sending Directv a mixed message that some people think it's fine and dandy to cut off our recorded shows if it stops a few dozen people from watching grey area recordings.

You see that's what always happens on this forum. Somebody complains about a legitimate problem and then like a freaking pack of white blood cells a group of higher ups moves in to smother them like a virus. And I think that analogy is very apt, I think people who complain are often seen like a virus, they might spread it to others so do something fast to contain and shut them up. If that does not work, like clockwork somebody comes out  and says close the post, it has nothing more to offer.



veryoldschool said:


> With this being the 80th posts, what more could be said?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

This thread has just gotten ridiculously stupid. If you really feel that strongly about it find another provider that meets your needs better instead of constantly complaining about something that isnt gonna change because "you think it should"


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## looter (Oct 1, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> This thread has just gotten ridiculously stupid. If you really feel that strongly about it find another provider that meets your needs better instead of constantly complaining about something that isnt gonna change because "you think it should"


I guess no one should request DLB, another DIRECTV Tivo unit or make wish lists because we know two of these "will NEVER happen" just because someone thinks they should. What is the point of this forum again?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Think in one of the many threads over the last couple years on this, the main problem is the HR2x doesn't have a realtime clock (there's no battery to keep it alive).. because of this there's no way to make it play for a specified (restricted) amount of time..
I belive it will continue to play recordings as long as it doesn't loose power tho..


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## jake14mw (Oct 5, 2007)

I have to agree that it seems silly that just because you are not getting a satellite signal, you can't watch your recorded content.

Are there really any significant number of people who are going to load up a DVR with content and then cancel service, and watch only recorded content? That's just not any reason to not allow you to view recorded content without a signal for some significant amount of time. It seems a few weeks or a month would be reasonable.

So, if I want to bring my DVR outside to watch movies on a projector, can I do this? It sounds like there is some amount of time this will work for now? How long is it?


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

jake14mw said:


> I have to agree that it seems silly that just because you are not getting a satellite signal, you can't watch your recorded content.
> 
> Are there really any significant number of people who are going to load up a DVR with content and then cancel service, and watch only recorded content? That's just not any reason to not allow you to view recorded content without a signal for some significant amount of time. It seems a few weeks or a month would be reasonable.
> 
> So, if I want to bring my DVR outside to watch movies on a projector, can I do this? It sounds like there is some amount of time this will work for now? How long is it?


 only if it doesn't loose power..


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> Jeez it's like you just cant get your head out of directv's
> Why do I have to buy and keep a second dish just so I can watch recordings that I recorded and that I paid for ????????????????????????????????????
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to understand. I don't need to see an up to date CNN report after a Hurricane hits, I am right in the middle of the crap I know that there is no water and that the roads are a mess etc etc. This may all be interesting to people in CA or Nebraska but for the people in the middle of it you dont want to spend your nights hearing more about your own misery, what you would like to do is watch a movie, catch up on a few comedies and get your mind off the misery for a few hours. And in the day time be able to have your kids be able to watch all there favorite shows that have been recorded. My son has every episode of Handy Manny, Fireman Sam, Sponge Bob etc and if he can watch those he's literally a "happy camper".


I don't disagree with you that recordings should be made available with no signal. My only point is that you are giving yourself an ulser for something $25 will solve. But by all means continue...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

looter said:


> Tell me again what the GOOD REASONS are that I can't use my HR21-700/AM21 when a tree grows in front of it but I can access recorded content and OTAs from my HR10-250 in the same situation...


Can't say. Other then the fact the HR10-250 is 6+ years old and DirecTV may have newer agreements with the studios which is why the current generation does what it does. Who knows.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

looter said:


> Do you still feel this way...
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090629-711145.html


I'm not seeing how cable's right to have a remote DVR service affects this discussion. If you lose cable for a month, you lose your remote DVR too. 

I do understand dreadlk's desire. And yet I also understand the very real problem of people using their DVRs against the Terms of Service. I don't know what affect the studios _have_ had upon this, tho I can imagine they have. 

So balancing of opposing forces must occur. I'm sure DIRECTV's first choice would be no time limits for customers recovering from hurricane and other natural disasters. It's easier. It's better for the legitimate customer. Alas...

Cheers,
Tom


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## jake14mw (Oct 5, 2007)

Well, if I move it outside, it will lose power. Is there some period of time that I will be able to watch recordings?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

jake14mw said:


> Well, if I move it outside, it will lose power. Is there some period of time that I will be able to watch recordings?


 .02seconds...
buy a small UPS and take that with..


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> And yet I also understand the very real problem of people using their DVRs against the Terms of Service.


This brings to mind two questions:

1. How "big" is the problem?

2. Is the solution effective in stopping the problem?


Star Trek II said:


> Kirk: Spock!
> Spock: The ship... out of danger?
> Kirk: Yes.
> Spock: Don't grieve, Admiral. It is logical. The needs of the many outweigh...
> ...


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

I dunno because I live in an area that's not affected by hurricanes.

But if I did, and the desire was to get back to watching DirecTV as soon as possible after the storm has passed, I would just add a backup system into my emergency plan. 

The last thing I would be doing is faulting the service provider who's only trying to protect itself from lawsuits and copyright infringements in situations that percentage-wise are far more common than lost signals due to blown-off dishes. 

If you want to blame someone, blame the MPAA. Or get a backup dish and system.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

The point is that they are protecting themselves from a handful of people who in fact may not be doing anything wrong to begin with.

There was never any problem when you recorded and KEPT Forever TV shows on VHS tape, there was never a problem when you recorded it onto DVD-R and DVD-Ram and even onto Tivo's and Panasonic HD recorders. but now we are told it's a problem with Directv's DVR's.

As I stated before why should I have a backup Satellite dish? Do you have a backup refrigerator or a New Plasma TV sitting in a box waiting for an emergency.

A Simple fix that does not require every DVR owner in the Hurricane belt to have to worry! Just stop messing with how and when we can watch our recordings. We paid for them!



Canis Lupus said:


> I dunno because I live in an area that's not affected by hurricanes.
> 
> But if I did, and the desire was to get back to watching DirecTV as soon as possible after the storm has passed, I would just add a backup system into my emergency plan.
> 
> ...


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

The funny part is that they seemed to have fixed the problem so why am I getting all worked up?

Simply because I am pissed that so many higher up's on this forum who you would expect to be siding with the end users, especialy in areas like this that clearly benefit the forum members are taking up for DirecTV and agreeing that we have no rights to be able to watch our recordings unless DirecTV decides it's ok.



bonscott87 said:


> I don't disagree with you that recordings should be made available with no signal. My only point is that you are giving yourself an ulser for something $25 will solve. But by all means continue...


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> The point is that they are protecting themselves from a handful of people who in fact may not be doing anything wrong to begin with.


Do you have a source to make this claim? Would the numbers be the same if it weren't protected?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> The funny part is that they seemed to have fixed the problem so why am I getting all worked up?
> 
> Simply because I am pissed that so many higher up's on this forum who you would expect to be siding with the end users, especialy in areas like this that clearly benefit the forum members are taking up for DirecTV and agreeing that we have no rights to be able to watch our recordings unless DirecTV decides it's ok.


Ah .. so you're simply mad because not everyone agrees with you. I get it.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> The point is that they are protecting themselves from a handful of people who in fact may not be doing anything wrong to begin with.
> 
> There was never any problem when you recorded and KEPT Forever TV shows on VHS tape, there was never a problem when you recorded it onto DVD-R and DVD-Ram and even onto Tivo's and Panasonic HD recorders. but now we are told it's a problem with Directv's DVR's.
> 
> ...


You still can record to VHS.  Or to DVD if the material isn't copy protected.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> just stop messing with our recordings, we paid for them!


Technically, that's not right. You're paying for the dvr service, which in times of outages, DirecTV will prorate..... or looking at this another way, if you cancel the dvr service/deactivate the HR2x, you lose the ability to access the recorded content and have to return the receiver without any right to keep the recordings. If you want copies of shows you can keep "forever", buy the DVD's when they're available or make your own with a dvd burner.



> why should I have a backup Satellite dish? Do you have a backup refrigerator or a New Plasma TV sitting in a box waiting for an emergency?


Satellite isn't quite the same thing - but yes, I have a backup/portable TV and the backup refrigerator is called an ice chest and I have several large ones.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Do you have a source to make this claim?


Would it be fair to ask if you have authoritative information to back up your suggestion that foiling those who have recorded a lot of material in advance of ditching the service was the reason for the "feature"?


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> The CNet review is still getting new people adding onto it every week and the reviews are still NOT good.


I fell out of my chair when I read the Monday Dilbert comic strip:


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> As I stated before why should I have a backup Satellite dish? Do you have a backup refrigerator or a New Plasma TV sitting in a box waiting for an emergency.


Actually I do. I have a Coleman Powerchill mini fridge ready to go in case. Plus several ice coolers as needed. And I can run my camper fridge on propane also in an emergency. And that's assuming that either my actual fridge is no longer working or my generator is dead.

I do have a small 19" regular old TV I can use and a small 4" portable with built in antenna if it came down to that.

Yes, I am prepared in case of a disaster living in Tornado alley. Probably not as much as I should be but I try. But that includes having a backup dish because getting DirecTV going would be a priority for me. Watching what I already recorded frankly would just be a side benefit. Most likely since I'd be running on generator power I probably wouldn't even fire up the DVRs to save power and just use my non DVR.

Good luck to you.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Would it be fair to ask if you have authoritative information to back up your suggestion that foiling those who have recorded a lot of material in advance of ditching the service was the reason for the "feature"?


Well, I did already mention the Digital Millennium Copyright Act earlier in the thread. It's kinda like locking the front door and in this case the key is authorization .. You need a Sat Connection to get authorization, plain and simple. Once upon a time, hacking was "easy" .. DIRECTV has chosen to protect it's assets. Is that why this is the case here? I'm not entirely sure, but why else would they do it? It seems real simple to me.

And as for "defense of DIRECTV" which seems to be what some people think. All I've done is state the facts as I see them, have I not? It is what it is, and I'm not going to complain about it because I'd rather my prices stay as low as possible. If DIRECTV opens this up for "whenever" access then you can bet your last dollar that crooks will find a way to make our prices go up.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Well, I did already mention the Digital Millennium Copyright Act earlier in the thread.


DMCA is not helped or hurt by DIRECTV disabling the functionality receivers. I call Red Herring on this one.


> I'm not entirely sure, but why else would they do it? It seems real simple to me.


While it may seem reasonable, it should be couched as an assumption (if it isn't documented fact) and not, as it often appears (without any attempt to correct), to be handed down from on high at DIRECTV.


> All I've done is state the facts as I see them, have I not?


You've apparently confused reasoning and speculation with fact. I think you can agree that there is no such beastie as "facts as I see them". I would recommend the term "pet theory" or "my guess" instead.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

VHS and DVD Recorders and any other unit not made by a service provider should be considered an archive system.. A programing service provider will never offer any kind of archiving system, it would not make sense, and is contradictory to the whole idea of selling their services in the first place... (no, larger hard drives in a DirecTV or Dish unit are not a real archiving system. It is still tagged to the service provider) 

DVR's are meant for time shifting, not archiving. Therefore, it is reasonable to think that you should not be able to view programs recorded on a unit if it can not verify that if the account it is tied to is still current. Directv figures this out by checking to see if there is a signal present.... 

The only real question is, how long should LOS be allowed before a system should assume an account to be no longer active? Since you basically have to send back boxes within a couple days of terminating service, I can see no reason to have a system not shut off after 2 days no matter what.. And at that point, realistically, what is the difference if its 2 days or 2 mins? Unless you purposely disconnect the feed, they actually purposefully shut of your cards immediately when you terminate service, so there is no real need to plan for longer periods.. 

Natural disasters are not predictable, and frankly, I don't believe DirecTV, or any other providers cover ACTS OF GOD, as TOS's usually call them... 

So, would you program a system for a possible act of god emergency event that will affect a very small number of clients each year that will be contradictory to the functionality and purpose of the product in the first place? No, I don't think you would...

You would figure out a different plan to accommodate the issue... I don't have the link right now (Directv.com is down for upgrades), but as I recall DirecTV offers a emergency dish and tripod setup on their web site... So actually, they have made accomidations for the exact issue that has been brought up here... It may not be the solution you like, but it is what they are offering, and it is not contradictory to the purpose and functionality of a program providers DVR's.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> DVR's are meant for time shifting, not archiving.


I've seen this theory floated several times before and I still don't buy into it. DIRECTV makes long-term archiving relatively inconvenient (at this time), but this isn't the case with DVRs from other sources.

E* uses the term archive in reference to external drives.

TiVo worked with Roxio to create software to burn programs to DVD on both Windows and Macintosh platforms.

Comcast says you can keep recordings "as long as you want".


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Doug Brott said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I did already mention the Digital Millennium Copyright Act earlier in the thread.
> ...


DMCA applies because if there were no Copyright concerns at all, then the OP is completely right .. why does DIRECTV care? Simply put, DIRECTV cares enough to encrypt the data and uses an access card to provide the necessary tools to decrypt it. As long as the card remains authorized .. no problems. The card verifies it's authorization via the Satellite link because it is the one "guaranteed" connection into the STB. Clearly when there is an event causing that "guaranteed" connection to go missing, there is no way to provide that authorization and voila .. it stops work.

As for your other comments .. I'll only add this. You could learn something from what you've stated.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> I've seen this theory floated several times before and I still don't buy into it. DIRECTV makes long-term archiving relatively inconvenient (at this time), but this isn't the case with DVRs from other sources.
> 
> E* uses the term archive in reference to external drives.
> 
> ...


Different companies and Different philosophies .. DIRECTV has always been on the more conservative side of the fence.

As for Comcast .. Their 15-hour DVR (HD) isn't really that good of an archiving tool. They may say that, but it's simple Marketing talk.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> I've seen this theory floated several times before and I still don't buy into it.


As its not really a theory....a couple million other folks do buy it.

I'm also at a loss to understand what any of that has to do with the OP.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Do you have a backup refrigerator or a New Plasma TV sitting in a box waiting for an emergency.


No - but I don't live in an area prone to hurricanes, frequent power losses, or other risky scenarios where a backup fridge or plasma would be required, or more importantly, as in the case of your satellite service, _desired_.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> I've seen this theory floated several times before and I still don't buy into it. DIRECTV makes long-term archiving relatively inconvenient (at this time), but this isn't the case with DVRs from other sources.
> 
> E* uses the term archive in reference to external drives.
> 
> ...


Ah, actually, it is fact....

Dish uses the term, but can you still view those recordings if you terminate your service? If not, then it is NOT an archival system.... And therefore just as "inconvenient as Directv" Frankly, I call Dishes use of the term archival misleading and bored line false advertising because it requires you to have their service...

Burning something to a DVD is an archival system. Because it is something that you can always view latter, and do not have to be paying any fees to view.

Comcast? Really? I can't remember the last time they said anything that was ethical in advertising IMO... They push the edge of morality the way they advertise, more than anyone else, and all the other cable companies, if you ask me. Sure, you can keep recordings as long as you want, as long as you are paying for their service, and you don't want to record anything else after the first 20 hours or recording...

People will believe what ever they want, but its difficult to dispute facts.

From wipkedia...

"In general, archives consist of records which have been selected for permanent or long-term preservation"

The reality is, nothing recorded in any form is actually an archives, because archives are generally unique in nature, and one of a kind records, which no recorded tv content could ever really be considered...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archive


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Exactly, you don't have them because it's just not practical to be that prepared. Sure I would love to have two of everything but I dont have the money the space or the desire to see tons of stuff sitting around waiting for an event to happen.



Canis Lupus said:


> No - but I don't live in an area prone to hurricanes, frequent power losses, or other risky scenarios where a backup fridge or plasma would be required, or more importantly, as in the case of your satellite service, _desired_.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> DVR's are meant for time shifting, not archiving. .


!rolling!rolling

Yeah right! I would bet my house that you can Graph and find an exact correlation between peoples Post Counts on this forum and the amount of Hard Drive space they have filled with recordings on their multiple HR2X's.

Are we suppose to believe that the CE people and 10,000 count posters on this forum are using their hundreds of hours of recordings for Time Shifting 
!rolling!rolling

SOME of the same people who are defending Directv have some of the largest Archives of recordings.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Your premise is flawed because the only reason Directv would need to do that card verification is because they screwed up the design and did not include a proper internal clock.

Even without a proper clock they can simply write a Time stamp every 30 minutes to the Hard drive. If you get an equivelent of 1 month or X amount of time stamps and still no signal has arrived to declare the cards status then you stop the recorder from working. Thats a simple solution that could easily be written into the firmware.



Doug Brott said:


> DMCA applies because if there were no Copyright concerns at all, then the OP is completely right .. why does DIRECTV care? Simply put, DIRECTV cares enough to encrypt the data and uses an access card to provide the necessary tools to decrypt it. As long as the card remains authorized .. no problems. The card verifies it's authorization via the Satellite link because it is the one "guaranteed" connection into the STB. Clearly when there is an event causing that "guaranteed" connection to go missing, there is no way to provide that authorization and voila .. it stops work.
> 
> As for your other comments .. I'll only add this. You could learn something from what you've stated.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I'll just say that I archive nothing on the DVRs. Not after losing an entire season of Buffy back in the day on a Tivo that crashed. I have two HR2x's and they are both around 60% free. If I want something long term then I just buy the DVD, hard drives are not reliable enough, even today, for long term archiving of anything. Maybe I'm not typical.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

:icon_lol::icon_lol:
Oh that' the best. It's almost exactly like your seeing a Directv engineer and manager talking
There goes those OTA tuners.



harsh said:


> I fell out of my chair when I read the Monday Dilbert comic strip:


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> !rolling!rolling
> 
> Yeah right! I would bet my house that you can Graph and find an exact correlation between peoples Post Counts on this forum and the amount of Hard Drive space they have filled with recordings on their multiple HR2X's.
> 
> ...


I watch and delete and if it's still on the dvr unwatched after a month it's fair game for deletion - hard drives, particularly ones in constant use, are a poor medium for long-term archiving. Most of the time you won't find any of my HR2x's with less than 60% free space.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Really my home Theater PC has about 1TB of Archived stuff and we love it, we can just scroll down a list of Movies in Meedio and pick out whatever we want to watch. Its a lot better than trying to look through a folder full of DVD or BD's and going through load up times etc. 

Point is that the argument that a HD is a poor medium for Archiving files flies in the face of Logic and also what all the Top HT people are doing. 

If you dont think it's reliable enough you just get a backup HD and be done with it. Same reason why many people on here have two HR2x's at home.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Really my home Theater PC has about 1TB of Archived stuff and we love it, we can just scroll down a list of Movies in Meedio and pick out whatever we want to watch. Its a lot better than trying to look through a folder full of DVD or BD's and going through load up times etc.
> 
> Point is that the argument that a HD is a poor medium for Archiving files flies in the face of Logic and also what all the Top HT people are doing.
> 
> If you dont think it's reliable enough you just get a backup HD and be done with it. Same reason why many people on here have two HR2x's at home.


What I said was a HD in constant use, such as those in the HR2x (always buffering and/or recording and/or playing back recordings), are likely to be more prone to failure than a HD used periodically for backup/archiving purposes only - You only need to experience one HD failure to understand the folly of relying upon a heavily used drive for archival purposes. As for the HR2x's, recordings made on one unit are not transferrable to another, they can only be accessed through the machine that created them.

I have 4 HR2x's, none of which duplicates any recordings and none of which I depend upon for archiving recordings. I don't pretend that any HR2x will last forever, but then again, I don't live in fear of their eventual failure, whether due to an external event or eventual failure of an internal component whether in 1, 5, 10 or more years..... or tomorrow.

BTW, I hope you backup your Home Theater drive, I'd hate to hear you complain because you lost 1TB of recordings.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Hard drives are not meant for permanent storage, unless you have a religious backup strategy. Anyone with a minute of IT experience knows this. The rule is if you would be put out if you lost it, you back it up. If a drive fails in your DVR any of us are probably disappointed, but its just tv, its not the end of the world. The 1st sign of a drive beginning to whine, I replace.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> !rolling!rolling
> 
> Yeah right! I would bet my house that you can Graph and find an exact correlation between peoples Post Counts on this forum and the amount of Hard Drive space they have filled with recordings on their multiple HR2X's.
> 
> ...


I time shift tons of programing.. some of it up to 9 months or more.. but its NOT an archive.. After I watch something, I delete it.. Archiving means you never delete what you record.... And again, no where is it said that I can time shift without proving that I am a paying customer...

Few people keep the same programs on their HD with anticipation of never deleting it...


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Exactly, you don't have them because it's just not practical to be that prepared. Sure I would love to have two of everything but I dont have the money the space or the desire to see tons of stuff sitting around waiting for an event to happen.


Ah, it is practical to have an extra dish if you are concerned about it getting knocked out on a regular basis due to hurricanes.. It is something that is in harms way often..

A Plasma isn't in harms way, unless the whole house goes...

A plasma backup could cost thousands...

A dish backup would cost less the hundred.... Probably no more than what you pay monthly for your Directv in the first place.

A spare dish takes very little room....


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Your premise is flawed because the only reason Directv would need to do that card verification is because they screwed up the design and did not include a proper internal clock.
> 
> Even without a proper clock they can simply write a Time stamp every 30 minutes to the Hard drive. If you get an equivelent of 1 month or X amount of time stamps and still no signal has arrived to declare the cards status then you stop the recorder from working. Thats a simple solution that could easily be written into the firmware.


Your premise is flawed because you assume that Directv should keep boxes active for long periods of time without proper verification.. They shouldn't and have absolutely no reason to, or need to... As stated in a previous post, they have made a solution available to people who have hurricane or other issues.... There is no reason to create a crack in their security if they already have a proper solution. Your not liking that solution is of no consequence to Directv... I am pretty sure somewhere in the TOS it even states you must have constant sat signal to be able to have their service... You are asking them to change their TOS..


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Dish uses the term, but can you still view those recordings if you terminate your service?


Can you still read or print a microfiche if you stop leasing the reader or can't find a replacement lamp?

Archiving is "long term" storage, not necessarily permanent storage.

Even DVD R and other digital recordable optical media have finite lifetimes.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Archiving means you never delete what you record....


This is not true. Archives of many kinds are destroyed systematically as their usefulness is exhausted (or they otherwise become a liability).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Your premise is flawed because the only reason Directv would need to do that card verification is because they screwed up the design and did not include a proper internal clock.
> 
> Even without a proper clock they can simply write a Time stamp every 30 minutes to the Hard drive. If you get an equivelent of 1 month or X amount of time stamps and still no signal has arrived to declare the cards status then you stop the recorder from working. Thats a simple solution that could easily be written into the firmware.


perhaps this is why you no longer actually have the problem that we're discussing.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> This is not true. Archives of many kinds are destroyed systematically as their usefulness is exhausted (or they otherwise become a liability).


Actually an archive would be where you wouldn't *have* to delete anything if you didn't want to.

If I have to delete stuff to archive more stuff it wouldn't be much of an archive. 

Functionally an archive would allow someone to store whatever they see fit to keep. Restrictions on capacity and long would be limited only by how much someone could afford. What that is...well there's the rub. :grin:

Mike


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Exactly, you don't have them because it's just not practical to be that prepared.


No I don't have them because it's not _required or desired_. Has nothing to do with being practical. I don't live in an area prone to _hurricanes_. If I did, I might consider a backup dish.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thats probably true, and that's the funny part about this thread, the problem is over, someone at D* must have realised that the rebooting thing was a bad idea and that it was bound to bite them in the butt, yet some people are still defending something that D* themselves seemed to realize was a bad idea :lol:



Doug Brott said:


> perhaps this is why you no longer actually have the problem that we're discussing.


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Look lets not get impractical. The word Archive can have different meanings, to Archive data is just to keep it till you no longer need the Data. To do a "Permanent Archive" is to attempt to keep something forever. Since there is no such thing as a Permanent Archive in the "real world", the discussion really cannot go anywhere.



MicroBeta said:


> Actually an archive would be where you wouldn't *have* to delete anything if you didn't want to.
> 
> If I have to delete stuff to archive more stuff it wouldn't be much of an archive.
> 
> ...


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I am truly having a hard time understanding what your saying. 
If I get this right, my way of interrupting what your saying, is that because Directv did not build the unit properly and include a real-time clock onboard we the end user must suffer with any measures they need to do to secure there system and to fix their own mistakes.

BTW what solution have they "made available"? You mean the option of buying a second standby dish? How many people do you think can install their own dish? Out of the 10 or so good friends that I have who have Directv, not one of them knows an LNBF different from the Dish itself They would all have to wait a month or so for an installer to arrive after a disaster, so having a spare dish does not help them.
and yes I agree with your statement that my not liking it is not going to change it, but it would seem that the people at Directv also realized that this could be a major PR disaster for them so they changed the system already, and that is a good move because as I said before if a hurricane had hit the south coast and people could not see there recordings they would have been under heavy fire from angry customers.

BTW don't take this stuff so personally, we are having a debate, it's nothing personal, I have no ill will towards you or anybody else who disagrees with me



inkahauts said:


> Your premise is flawed because you assume that Directv should keep boxes active for long periods of time without proper verification.. They shouldn't and have absolutely no reason to, or need to... As stated in a previous post, they have made a solution available to people who have hurricane or other issues.... There is no reason to create a crack in their security if they already have a proper solution. Your not liking that solution is of no consequence to Directv... I am pretty sure somewhere in the TOS it even states you must have constant sat signal to be able to have their service... You are asking them to change their TOS..


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks, yes I do have my 1 TB backed up. Those WD portable drives are so cheap and easy to use it's a no brainer.

I have two HR2x's and I freely admit, I have almost every episode of Top Gear on both units and I also have every episode of Fireman Sam and Handy Manny on both units (for my Son). I won't keep them forever but I do consider them an Archive.



say-what said:


> What I said was a HD in constant use, such as those in the HR2x (always buffering and/or recording and/or playing back recordings), are likely to be more prone to failure than a HD used periodically for backup/archiving purposes only - You only need to experience one HD failure to understand the folly of relying upon a heavily used drive for archival purposes. As for the HR2x's, recordings made on one unit are not transferrable to another, they can only be accessed through the machine that created them.
> 
> I have 4 HR2x's, none of which duplicates any recordings and none of which I depend upon for archiving recordings. I don't pretend that any HR2x will last forever, but then again, I don't live in fear of their eventual failure, whether due to an external event or eventual failure of an internal component whether in 1, 5, 10 or more years..... or tomorrow.
> 
> BTW, I hope you backup your Home Theater drive, I'd hate to hear you complain because you lost 1TB of recordings.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> Look lets not get impractical. The word Archive can have different meanings, to Archive data is just to keep it till you no longer need the Data. To do a "Permanent Archive" is to attempt to keep something forever. Since there is no such thing as a Permanent Archive in the "real world", the discussion really cannot go anywhere.


I we put Archive in context of archive in show it would make sense that I would archive my shows till I no longer wanted them...I'm just sayin' :grin:

In this context my original post applies. 

Mike


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