# ATTN House/Alcatraz fans Daytona 500 now set for 7 p.m. start 2/27/2012



## cj9788

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57385759/daytona-500-more-rain-in-the-forecast/

_(CBS/AP) DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. - NASCAR president Mike Helton says the Daytona 500 will start Monday night at 7 p.m. Heavy rain soaked Daytona International Speedway on Sunday, forcing NASCAR to postpone the event for the first time in its 54-year history. _ _A 80 percent chance of rain and thunder showers is in the forecast until Monday evening before the percentage drops to 20 percent tonight, according to weather.com._
_Earlier, NASCAR vice president of operations Steve O'Donnell said the sanctioning body was prepared to hold the race under lights if necessary._


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## Earl Bonovich

I know that NASCAR fans really want to watch the race, I do too and I am a casual fan.

But the outlash of the fans of House and Alcatraz (mostly House), is going to be LOUD.

The race should be moved to FX.... On FX is just an airing of Eagle Eye from 2008

Do they refund the advertisers that paid top dollar for Sunday afternoon, Daytona 500 rates? For a Monday evening, where there is a lot more rating challenge?


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## JACKIEGAGA

Thanks for the heads up


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## trainman

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the *outlash* of the fans of House and Alcatraz (mostly House), is going to be LOUD.


Is that a cross between a backlash and an outcry? 



> Do they refund the advertisers that paid top dollar for Sunday afternoon, Daytona 500 rates? For a Monday evening, where there is a lot more rating challenge?


There may be more competition in prime-time, but with a higher number of people "available" to watch TV in prime-time, I suspect the number of viewers will end up being higher than it would have been on Sunday afternoon.


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## dpeters11

So has anything been said yet on when the episodes will air? Wasn't sure if it would be a special time/day or just pushed a week.


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## Earl Bonovich

dpeters11 said:


> So has anything been said yet on when the episodes will air? Wasn't sure if it would be a special time/day or just pushed a week.


My guess is that they don't know yet.

Because with the race at 7pm ET... that is an hour before prime-time starts.
So if the track is not ready, they may still air the originally scheduled episodes as the filler..

Then it may be up to the affiliate's schedule.


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## yosoyellobo

dpeters11 said:


> So has anything been said yet on when the episodes will air? Wasn't sure if it would be a special time/day or just pushed a week.


Tonight episode will repeat Sat 3/10. I will also record Sat episode just in case.


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## RunnerFL

Earl Bonovich said:


> I know that NASCAR fans really want to watch the race, I do too and I am a casual fan.
> 
> But the outlash of the fans of House and Alcatraz (mostly House), is going to be LOUD.
> 
> The race should be moved to FX.... On FX is just an airing of Eagle Eye from 2008
> 
> Do they refund the advertisers that paid top dollar for Sunday afternoon, Daytona 500 rates? For a Monday evening, where there is a lot more rating challenge?


FOX signed a contract with NASCAR saying they would not push race broadcasts off to sister networks regardless of when they take place.

As for the advertisers... Trust me they got their monies worth while we sat there for a few hours yesterday watching their commercials over and over until the decision was made to move the race to noon today, and now 7pm.


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## fluffybear

Earl Bonovich said:


> My guess is that they don't know yet.
> 
> Because with the race at 7pm ET... that is an hour before prime-time starts.
> So if the track is not ready, they may still air the originally scheduled episodes as the filler..
> 
> Then it may be up to the affiliate's schedule.


Fox could also possibly sacrifice the east coast and allow House and Alcatraz to air immediately following NASCAR (provided it starts promptly at 7 Eastern/4 Pacific) and allow east coast affiliates to air when convenient (Thursday @3am or Saturday Afternoon). I'm guessing we won't have much int he way of pre-festivities (as typical with a delayed race) so the race shouldn't really take more than 4 hours to run.


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## Laxguy

My curiosity is piqued as to how channel information-on DIRECTV®'s Guide -will be handled. Safest to record everything! (My guide is still showing the race is on Ch 2 here in the Bay Area).* It certainly is not a definite definite for tonight, either. *

I'll be trying to see how Guide updates happen or don't happen.


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## Herdfan

fluffybear said:


> so the race shouldn't really take more than 4 hours to run.


Did you not watch the Shootout, the truck race or the Nationwide race? We certainly have a chance for multiple cautions and red flags and GWC finishes. Looks to be a great race.


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## phrelin

USA Today in an update says:


> If it goes off as scheduled - and that remained a big "if" - the 54th running of the Daytona 500 is likely to be an unexpected ratings boon for Fox.


Fox, the sports/gameshow network has virtually no commitment to getting regular programming any ratings. "House", of course, is in its last season anyway. "Alcatraz" from a ratings standpoint is already a loser, so it appears they could delay the Monday lineup for a week.


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## hdtvfan0001

Kept House set just in case....but added manual record for NASCAR too.


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## renbutler

Rain is likely to continue plaguing the race tonight, so this might be a moot point.

But if the race does pre-empt House/Alcatraz, there's no WAY they're going to sacrifice the east coast. I know they used to do that with Futurama during football season mad, but there's no way these shows will go unaired in any significantly large area of the country. Both will be shown in primetime on FOX at some point.


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## RunnerFL

renbutler said:


> Rain is likely to continue plaguing the race tonight, so this might be a moot point.


I just looked at the live radar for that area and it's clear with nothing else showing up as approaching that area. Even IF they don't get it in tonight I seriously doubt that House and Alcatraz will be on. And since guide data has updated everyone's House and Alcatraz recordings have been cancelled on their units as well.


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## renbutler

RunnerFL said:


> I just looked at the live radar for that area and it's clear with nothing else showing up as approaching that area.


I'm looking at live radar right now, and there is rain in Ocala heading east, with more behind it.

I'm not saying it WILL rain, but rain is currently headed directly toward D-Beach.


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## phrelin

From here:


> Rain began falling again around 4 p.m. but the radar shows it may be of a short duration.
> 
> The heaviest rain in the Daytona Beach area stopped around 11:30 a.m. and there have been only occasional light sprinkles during the afternoon. The huge Jet Dryers have been on the Daytona International Speedway track for two hours and the only standing water left is on the flat apron area near the entrance to Pit Row.


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## spartanstew

yosoyellobo said:


> Tonight episode will repeat Sat 3/10. I will also record Sat episode just in case.


Yes, my guide is now showing that the episode that was supposed to air tonight (clarence montgomery) is now airing at 10pm on 3/10.

I guess I'll have to wait to watch the 3/5 episode until after I've seen the episode on 3/10.


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## phrelin

spartanstew said:


> Yes, my guide is now showing that the episode that was supposed to air tonight (clarence montgomery) is now airing at 10pm on 3/10.
> 
> I guess I'll have to wait to watch the 3/5 episode until after I've seen the episode on 3/10.


That was scheduled before the Daytona rain delay problem. And that doesn't solve Fox's "House" problem.

The San Francisco Fox affiliate KTVU web site now has the race starting at 4 pm PST and ending at 9:30 pm. No schedule _adjustments_ for airing the "House" and "Alcatraz" episodes scheduled for tonight appear in the next two weeks, yet.


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## phrelin

I also forced a guide update on my Dish ViP612DVR and the race replaced everything from 4:00 to 10:00.


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## spartanstew

phrelin said:


> That was scheduled before the Daytona rain delay problem.


Why did they schedule tonights Alcatraz for 3/10 before the Daytona rain delay?


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## David Ortiz

spartanstew said:


> Why did they schedule tonights Alcatraz for 3/10 before the Daytona rain delay?


They have been repeating the episodes on Saturday since the pilot. The premiere was the pilot and the second episode, so they have been an episode behind on the Saturday repeats.

It would still be good to check to see if the episodes scheduled hold or are changed.


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## Steve

Just checked, and my HR34 GUIDE is showing _NASCAR _from 7PM ET to 12:30AM on my FOX local, WNYW.

Smart Search currently shows no _House _episodes on FOX 5 through 3/11.


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## phrelin

NASCAR is on, "House" and "Alcatraz" won't be. Here's what was on our Fox affiliate a few minutes ago:


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## cj9788

phrelin said:


> NASCAR is on, "House" and "Alcatraz" won't be. Here's what was on our Fox affiliate a few minutes ago:


That is one sharp photo. How did you take that?


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## phrelin

cj9788 said:


> That is one sharp photo. How did you take that?


I'm watching from my upstairs Dish ViP722DVR via my Slingbox PRO HD in a "window" on my downstairs office desktop computer which can handle HD. It's simply a screenshot.


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## trh

It doesn't look like it, but House/Alcatraz could air tonight depending on how the race goes.


> Here's what we know about tonight's schedule on Fox:
> The Daytona 500, rained out Sunday, will air beginning at 6 p.m. (unless it's not rained out again).
> But what of "House" and "Alcatraz"?
> Here's the rather complicated plan, as conveyed to Fox stations including KTVI (Channel 2).
> * If the race ends at or after 9 p.m., both shows will be pre-empted entirely, and the scheduled episodes will air on a later night, to be determined.
> * If the race ends or is rained out between 7 and 8 p.m., "House" will be joined in progress, followed by "Alcatraz." (Nobody knows whether different episodes than the first-run ones now scheduled would be substituted.)
> * If the race ends or is rained out between 8 and 9 p.m., "House" will be pre-empted, and "Alcatraz" will air in full.
> This is information is for St. Louis and anyone in the Eastern and Central time zones, by the way.
> 
> Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/entertainme...196-11e1-8d28-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1ndJo1XuU


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## cj9788

phrelin said:


> I'm watching from my upstairs Dish ViP722DVR via my Slingbox PRO HD in a "window" on my downstairs office desktop computer which can handle HD. It's simply a screenshot.


That explains why it looks so good.


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> It doesn't look like it, but House/Alcatraz could air tonight depending on how the race goes.


Considering it's now after 9pm Eastern and the race is still on, with not a cloud in sight, I don't think either will be on.


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## Davenlr

From my local Fox stations facebook post:

FOX16 News
Updated House and Alcatraz information.
Next week (3/5) 2 hours of Alcatraz. House will return on March 12 and 19th followed by Alcatraz.


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## rrdirectsr

Davenlr said:


> From my local Fox stations facebook post:
> 
> FOX16 News
> Updated House and Alcatraz information.
> Next week (3/5) 2 hours of Alcatraz. House will return on March 12 and 19th followed by Alcatraz.


It looks like the DTV guide updated to reflect the info you were given by your local fox affiliate. So no House for 2 weeks


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## spartanstew

OK, the guide now shows the two hours of Alcatraz for next Monday 3/5. Episode "The Ames Brothers" and episode "Sonny Burnett".

It also shows episode "Clarence Montgomery" with an original air date of 2/27 to be shown on Saturday 3/10.

Are all three episodes new?


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## Laxguy

spartanstew said:


> OK, the guide now shows the two hours of Alcatraz for next Monday 3/5. Episode "The Ames Brothers" and episode "Sonny Burnett".
> 
> It also shows episode "Clarence Montgomery" with an original air date of 2/27 to be shown on Saturday 3/10.
> 
> Are all three episodes new?


Yes!
Imdb.com
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1728102/episodes?year=2012


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## phrelin

This is so Fox.  :eek2: 

From here:


> The FOX network is making some additional revisions to their upcoming schedule. Touch was originally going to return on Monday, March 19th at 9pm. It will now be taking over the Thursdays at 9pm timeslot, beginning March 22nd. The Finder will go on hiatus after March 8th.
> 
> As a result, Bones is coming to Monday nights at 8pm with House is shifting to 9pm. That begins April 2nd. Alcatraz will have finished its first season with a pair of episodes on March 26th.


What follows those paragraphs is a Fox news release. That is followed by:


> [EDITOR'S NOTE 1: Due to the Monday, Feb. 27 primetime NASCAR race preemption on the East Coast (and potentially West Coast), the schedule for Monday, March 5; Monday, March 12; and Monday, March 19 is not final and to be announced.]
> 
> [EDITOR'S NOTE 2: The TOUCH World Premiere was previously announced as Monday, March 19 and FOX's 25th ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL was previously scheduled on Sunday, April 1.]
> 
> [EDITOR'S NOTE 3: THE SIMPSONS, BOB'S BURGERS, FAMILY GUY and AMERICAN DAD are preempted on Sunday, April 22.]
> 
> [EDITOR'S NOTE 4: BONES is preempted on Monday, May 21.]


!rolling

Anyway, I'm sure a day or two after I've missed them, this week's episodes of "House" and "Alcatraz" will be aired.


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## Davenlr

And they want 300% price increases to boot....


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## Lord Vader

Cripes! It's finally over!

Six hours, 10 cautions, and a major wreck involving a track blowing vehicle, with explosions and all.

Damn! This race was looooooooong. :sleeping:


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## Stewart Vernon

Yeah... I'm not a NASCAR fan, but I was forced to keep an eye on it in case... but every time I looked over they were stopped for some reason... and I noted it was still going at close to 1am I think...

The good thing is that it ran SO late they didn't even have a chance to think about airing on the west coast... so FOX will have to re-run these on a normal night at some point unless they really want to screw their viewers.

Much like the baseball mess earlier this season... I wish FOX would do a better job of handling these things.

The smarter move would have been to decide (once the rain delay happened Sunday) to pre-empt their new primetime tonight no matter what. Either show repeats if the race was delayed again OR show the race... that would make fans of the race and fans of the shows happier to know well in advance that they were not going to miss whichever they were hoping would air.


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## Art7220

Alcatraz was on last night. Check the download sites.
[MOD EDIT] I don't know about House, didn't see downloads for that.


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## David Ortiz

thefutoncritic.com currently shows that the preempted episode of Alcatraz will not air on Sat, March 10, but will air on Mon, March 12 (possibly repeating on Sat, March 24).

The two episodes originally scheduled for March 5 have not been changed.


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## hdtvfan0001

Lord Vader said:


> Cripes! It's finally over!
> 
> Six hours, 10 cautions, and a major wreck involving a track blowing vehicle, with explosions and all.





Stewart Vernon said:


> Yeah... I'm not a NASCAR fan, but I was forced to keep an eye on it in case... but every time I looked over they were stopped for some reason... and I noted it was still going at close to 1am I think...
> 
> The good thing is that it ran SO late they didn't even have a chance to think about airing on the west coast... so FOX will have to re-run these on a normal night at some point unless they really want to screw their viewers.
> 
> Much like the baseball mess earlier this season... I wish FOX would do a better job of handling these things.
> 
> The smarter move would have been to decide (once the rain delay happened Sunday) to pre-empt their new primetime tonight no matter what. Either show repeats if the race was delayed again OR show the race... that would make fans of the race and fans of the shows happier to know well in advance that they were not going to miss.


Maybe they need to change the name to SMASHCAR. 

Not a follower in the least, but I was recording it for someone who is a fan...so caught maybe 3-4 glimpses while flipping channels to make sure it got the whole thing recorded. WOW - plenty of messed up cars.

I sure missed HOUSE.


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## joshjr

Art7220 said:


> Alcatraz was on last night. Check the download sites.
> Demonoid.me/files/details... I don't know about House, didn't see downloads for that.


Unless it came on after 12:15am Central time then it sure didnt. I didnt think to try the west coast channels but I would be surprised if they aired it.


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## RunnerFL

Art7220 said:


> Alcatraz was on last night. Check the download sites.
> Demonoid.me/files/details... I don't know about House, didn't see downloads for that.


It couldn't have been on. The race was on past 1am Eastern time which is past 10pm Pacific and we all know FOX goes local at 10pm in your TZ.


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## David Ortiz

It was on ... in Canada.


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## RunnerFL

David Ortiz said:


> It was on ... in Canada.


Ahhh, well that's not FOX.


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## David Ortiz

RunnerFL said:


> Ahhh, well that's not FOX.


Correct, but it explains why the torrent sites have it.


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## Laxguy

phrelin said:


> I'm watching from my upstairs Dish ViP722DVR via my Slingbox PRO HD in a "window" on my downstairs office desktop computer which can handle HD. It's simply a screenshot.


Nice work!

For those wishing to use a camera- such as those of us who don't or can't use a computer screen shot, I've had good luck pausing the screen, and moving in to just fill the screen, manual settings @ 50mm, filling the screen.


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## phrelin

According to this:


> The FOX network has announced make-up times for programs that were pre-empted by NASCAR's Daytona 500 on Monday night.
> 
> The network says that the episode of "House" scheduled for Monday night will now be seen on Monday, March 19th at 7:00 p.m. Central, while the show "Alcatraz" will have back-to-back episodes on Monday, March 5th at 8:00 p.m. Central.
> 
> The episode of "Alcatraz" originally scheduled for last night will now air on Monday, March 12th at 8:00 p.m. Central.


And both shows did not air last night in the San Francisco Bay Area nor are they available to Dish viewers on line today.


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## Sixto

I guess having the episodes out of order doesn't matter. Hmmm.


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## RunnerFL

Sixto said:


> I guess having the episodes out of order doesn't matter. Hmmm.


I was just thinking the same thing.


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## phrelin

Sixto said:


> I guess having the episodes out of order doesn't matter. Hmmm.


 The episode description is "Clarence Montgomery was the only innocent man in Alcatraz but he's returned and is committing crimes." I can't imagine that the showrunners planned that episode as one which would offer any meaningful information that might affect the episodes now being shown ahead of it.

Since they could have shown the episodes in order by just pushing everything out a week, they chose to not do that. It's Fox, the sports and gameshow network. If something prevented a playoff game from being completed on its assigned date, I'm sure they'd just move on to The World Series or The Super Bowl by randomly selecting one of the teams to play, or they would show an episode of "American Idol" with a couple of contestants just missing having drawn the short straws. Bottom line, at Fox viewers of scripted shows "get no respect." :nono2:


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## RunnerFL

Hows this for helping FOX's ratings:

Fox's impromptu primetime coverage of a rain-delayed Daytona 500 rained on everyone else's parade, driving almost every rival down in viewership. What's more, by averaging 14.24 million total viewers and a 4.5 demo rating, Fox's NASCAR coverage about doubled its typical House/Alcatraz numbers and thus led the network to a rare Monday win on both counts (tvline.com)
AND Fox earned a 7.7 overnight Nielsen rating for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Daytona 500's debut in primetime, which saw Matt Kenseth take the checkered flag. That figure is down 6% from an 8.2 overnight for Trevor Bayne's win last year, which aired on a Sunday afternoon (Sports Business Daily).
AND II: Fox carried special coverage of the Daytona 500, which was delayed from Sunday by rain, and it averaged a 4.5 adults 18-49 rating and 11 share from 8 to 11 p.m., according to Nielsen overnights, just ahead of NBC's 4.4/11. But the Daytona 500 was not the night's top show. That honor once again went to NBC's "The Voice," which averaged a 5.4 from 8 to 10 p.m., down 7 percent from the previous week but once again dominating its timeslot. Ratings for Fox's NASCAR coverage are approximate as fast nationals measure timeslot and not actual program data. Fox also finished first for the night among households with an 8.1 average overnight rating and a 12 share. NBC was second at 7.3/11, CBS third at 6.3/10, ABC fourth at 5.6/9, Univision fifth at 1.8/3, CW sixth at 0.9/1 and Telemundo seventh at 0.7/1.


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## Laxguy

RunnerFL said:


> I was just thinking the same thing.


+1

At least so far I don't think it'd have made a diff. Perhaps towards the end it will.


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## Sixto

Every episode they reveal a little of the mythology, so maybe the pieces don't always need to be in any particular order.


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## phrelin

RunnerFL said:


> Hows this for helping FOX's ratings:
> 
> Fox's impromptu primetime coverage of a rain-delayed Daytona 500 rained on everyone else's parade, driving almost every rival down in viewership. What's more, by averaging 14.24 million total viewers and a 4.5 demo rating, Fox's NASCAR coverage about doubled its typical House/Alcatraz numbers and thus led the network to a rare Monday win on both counts (tvline.com)
> AND Fox earned a 7.7 overnight Nielsen rating for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Daytona 500's debut in primetime, which saw Matt Kenseth take the checkered flag. That figure is down 6% from an 8.2 overnight for Trevor Bayne's win last year, which aired on a Sunday afternoon (Sports Business Daily).
> AND II: Fox carried special coverage of the Daytona 500, which was delayed from Sunday by rain, and it averaged a 4.5 adults 18-49 rating and 11 share from 8 to 11 p.m., according to Nielsen overnights, just ahead of NBC's 4.4/11. But the Daytona 500 was not the night's top show. That honor once again went to NBC's "The Voice," which averaged a 5.4 from 8 to 10 p.m., down 7 percent from the previous week but once again dominating its timeslot. Ratings for Fox's NASCAR coverage are approximate as fast nationals measure timeslot and not actual program data. Fox also finished first for the night among households with an 8.1 average overnight rating and a 12 share. NBC was second at 7.3/11, CBS third at 6.3/10, ABC fourth at 5.6/9, Univision fifth at 1.8/3, CW sixth at 0.9/1 and Telemundo seventh at 0.7/1.


Rest assured the prime time Daytona 500 made News Corp a bundle. And if you, as an owner of a Fox affiliate, don't care what happens next week or next year because you made a few extra bucks last night, it's great.

But this is a spin view of the ratings. IMHO Fox and ABC are competing to see who can join the "Primetime Leno" NBC in the shallow end of the broadcast network advertising revenue pool.

Fox can't make a scripted series work ratings-wise. Since they have 11 prime time hours over 6 nights to fill with ad supported programming, this could be a problem. Or maybe not because we all will be shelling out $1 a month in retrans fees because Fox isn't keeping Rupert Murdoch happy with ad revenue.


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## RunnerFL

phrelin said:


> Rest assured the prime time Daytona 500 made News Corp a bundle. And if you, as an owner of a Fox affiliate, don't care what happens next week or next year because you made a few extra bucks last night, it's great.
> 
> But this is a spin view of the ratings. IMHO Fox and ABC are competing to see who can join the "Primetime Leno" NBC in the shallow end of the broadcast network advertising revenue pool.
> 
> Fox can't make a scripted series work ratings-wise. Since they have 11 prime time hours over 6 nights to fill with ad supported programming, this could be a problem. Or maybe not because we all will be shelling out $1 a month in retrans fees because Fox isn't keeping Rupert Murdoch happy with ad revenue.


Maybe FOX will ask NASCAR to make next year's races all take place during primetime on a weeknight.


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## Lord Vader

Considering last night was a rare night where very few good things were on TV, including major sporting events, it's no surprise FOX received good ratings.


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## phrelin

Lord Vader said:


> Considering last night was a rare night where very few good things were on TV, including major sporting events, it's no surprise FOX received good ratings.


"Good" TV and good ratings aren't necessarily the same thing.


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## RunnerFL

phrelin said:


> "Good" TV and good ratings aren't necessarily the same thing.


Agreed, 100%.


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## RunnerFL

Lord Vader said:


> Considering last night was a rare night where very few good things were on TV, including major sporting events, it's no surprise FOX received good ratings.


It's also not a surprise considering the only thing that gets better ratings than NASCAR is the NFL.


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## Lord Vader

phrelin said:


> "Good" TV and good ratings aren't necessarily the same thing.


I didn't say they were. Do not infer that which I did not imply.

Last night was a dry night on television, network TV especially. It's no surprise the Daytona 500 got such boffo ratings.

BTW, is it over yet?


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## Stewart Vernon

Not surprising they drew a big audience... NASCAR has a big following anyway, and airing on Monday like that it drew in some casual viewers who probably stuck around and watched a race for the first time OR first time in years.

The question is, whether it is smart to sacrifice their other audience?

Consider... back in the day when FOX was just starting as a TV network... they made the bid for NFL games for TWO reasons:

1. Obviously, having the NFL is huge... and would draw big ratings on Sundays + getting the Superbowl every few years.

2. Less obvious, but while you air NFL games you get to promo all your rest-of-the-week shows to an audience who wouldn't otherwise have been watching FOX that afternoon.

So... same holds true for NASCAR... they get ratings for NASCAR itself + promo their primetime shows... problem is, IF NASCAR cuts into and replaces a primetime show... their gain in viewers last night could result in a loss of viewers next week.

Imagine... someone on the fence about Alcatraz decides to give up on the show after this impromptu skip week... also imagine, knowing this is the final season of House... maybe some House viewers decide to skip the rest of the season and wait until the DVD/Blu-ray comes out.

One weekend of higher NASCAR ratings could come at the expense of a couple of months of lower primetime ratings... and if that happens during sweeps, it will affect their advertising prices for next year.


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## StevenA

Not being insensitive, but,

There was a shooting at a school Monday, they talked about it all day. Wife switched the race on at 7 and they were still talking about it. I started hunting other channels down and she switched to wheel of fortune.

Well, eventually we checked back and they were on lap 2! Man she was ticked we had missed the green flag.

Thing is, they never said anything about when they were going to switch over. Last thing they said at 11am that it was going to be on at 7 instead. I know the shooting wasn't a great thing, but 12+ hours of it?

And why couldn't they put House etc on one of the sub channels? I know it's not carried on most providers, but it's an option.


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## RunnerFL

Stewart Vernon said:


> Not surprising they drew a big audience... NASCAR has a big following anyway, and airing on Monday like that it drew in some casual viewers who probably stuck around and watched a race for the first time OR first time in years.
> 
> The question is, whether it is smart to sacrifice their other audience?
> 
> Consider... back in the day when FOX was just starting as a TV network... they made the bid for NFL games for TWO reasons:
> 
> 1. Obviously, having the NFL is huge... and would draw big ratings on Sundays + getting the Superbowl every few years.
> 
> 2. Less obvious, but while you air NFL games you get to promo all your rest-of-the-week shows to an audience who wouldn't otherwise have been watching FOX that afternoon.
> 
> So... same holds true for NASCAR... they get ratings for NASCAR itself + promo their primetime shows... problem is, IF NASCAR cuts into and replaces a primetime show... their gain in viewers last night could result in a loss of viewers next week.
> 
> Imagine... someone on the fence about Alcatraz decides to give up on the show after this impromptu skip week... also imagine, knowing this is the final season of House... maybe some House viewers decide to skip the rest of the season and wait until the DVD/Blu-ray comes out.
> 
> One weekend of higher NASCAR ratings could come at the expense of a couple of months of lower primetime ratings... and if that happens during sweeps, it will affect their advertising prices for next year.


FOX doesn't care what viewers or shows they displace. Two perfect examples are Futurama and Firefly.


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## RunnerFL

StevenA said:


> Not being insensitive, but,
> 
> There was a shooting at a school Monday, they talked about it all day. Wife switched the race on at 7 and they were still talking about it. I started hunting other channels down and she switched to wheel of fortune.
> 
> Well, eventually we checked back and they were on lap 2! Man she was ticked we had missed the green flag.
> 
> Thing is, they never said anything about when they were going to switch over. Last thing they said at 11am that it was going to be on at 7 instead. I know the shooting wasn't a great thing, but 12+ hours of it?
> 
> And why couldn't they put House etc on one of the sub channels? I know it's not carried on most providers, but it's an option.


The shooting coverage would have been your local FOX Affiliate not FOX themselves. They, your Ohio FOX station, would have been the ones who decided when to cut to the race at that point.

As for the sub channels those don't belong to FOX, they belong to your local affiliate and your local affiliate decides what to do with them.


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## Davenlr

RunnerFL said:


> FOX doesn't care what viewers or shows they displace. Two perfect examples are Futurama and Firefly.


The total lack of being able to figure out if a show is going to be on or not, and whether it will get yanked right when I am starting to enjoy it, is the main reason I dont even watch any FOX series shows anymore. Why start. If it wasnt for our local Fox news, and Nascar, I would just block the channel out of the guide.


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## StevenA

"RunnerFL" said:


> The shooting coverage would have been your local FOX Affiliate not FOX themselves. They, your Ohio FOX station, would have been the ones who decided when to cut to the race at that point.
> 
> As for the sub channels those don't belong to FOX, they belong to your local affiliate and your local affiliate decides what to do with them.


I understand that, it was just annoying that they waited until the last minute to show it and failed to say they were going to do as such.

I forgot that FOX was sending NASCAR down the pipe and the affiliate couldn't pick up house to show it on a sub channel.

With the flexibility they have with having a sub channel, I was surprised they didn't use it.


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## coldsteel

For Any “Princess Bride” & Nascar Fans….
“Hello jet engine on a truck. My name is Juan Pablo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die”


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## Herdfan

Lord Vader said:


> Last night was a dry night on television, network TV especially.


HIMYM, 2BG, 2.5M, M&M, Castle, H5-0. Monday is a great night.

Glad I have a DVR.


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## RunnerFL

StevenA said:


> With the flexibility they have with having a sub channel, I was surprised they didn't use it.


For what?


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## StevenA

"RunnerFL" said:


> For what?


For showing programing that gets bumped or for extra content.

Actually I'm surprised they haven't used it for 24 hours of news, they already use up 12 hours of the day on it.


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## RunnerFL

StevenA said:


> For showing programing that gets bumped or for extra content.
> 
> Actually I'm surprised they haven't used it for 24 hours of news, they already use up 12 hours of the day on it.


You don't seem to get it. Your local affiliate couldn't have used their subchannel to show House or Alcatraz because FOX didn't broadcast them. FOX doesn't own the subchannels so they can't force your local affiliate to do it either.


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## Herdfan

Somewhat OT, The penalties for the #48 team have been announced. Six race suspension for Knaus and Car Chief Ron Malec, $100K fine for Knaus and 25 driver and owner points. Jimmie is in the negative. 

Hendrick will appeal.


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## joshjr

Herdfan said:


> Somewhat OT, The penalties for the #48 team have been announced. Six race suspension for Knaus and Car Chief Ron Malec, $100K fine for Knaus and 25 driver and owner points. Jimmie is in the negative.
> 
> Hendrick will appeal.


Oh darn. Not a Johnson fan anyways. I hope he finishes the season 43rd in the points.


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## Stewart Vernon

RunnerFL said:


> FOX doesn't care what viewers or shows they displace. Two perfect examples are Futurama and Firefly.


I don't disagree with you... but Futurama was a 7pm show outside of primetime and Firefly was a Friday show where most networks send shows to die anyway.


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## RunnerFL

Stewart Vernon said:


> I don't disagree with you... but Futurama was a 7pm show outside of primetime and Firefly was a Friday show where most networks send shows to die anyway.


Futurama started as an 8:30 show following The Simpsons.


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## StevenA

"RunnerFL" said:


> You don't seem to get it. Your local affiliate couldn't have used their subchannel to show House or Alcatraz because FOX didn't broadcast them. FOX doesn't own the subchannels so they can't force your local affiliate to do it either.


I think you missed this part of my post,



"StevenA" said:


> I forgot that FOX was sending NASCAR down the pipe and the affiliate couldn't pick up house to show it on a sub channel.


I do understand, I just messed up on the coming across part.


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## yosoyellobo

Just notice that they are showing Clarence Montgomery on the 12th. Guess I will wait to watch them all in order.


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## Stewart Vernon

RunnerFL said:


> Futurama started as an 8:30 show following The Simpsons.


I forgot about that... most of my memory was when they had shifted it to pre-8-pm and it was always pre-empted by NFL... which did kill it as I wonder about how NASCAR might affect their Monday night shows going forward... so I guess I was right in one way and wrong in another.


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## RunnerFL

Stewart Vernon said:


> I forgot about that... most of my memory was when they had shifted it to pre-8-pm and it was always pre-empted by NFL... which did kill it as I wonder about how NASCAR might affect their Monday night shows going forward... so I guess I was right in one way and wrong in another.


The odds of there being another Monday primetime NASCAR race are very very slim. They only did this because it was the Daytona 500. Any other race they would have delayed until Tuesday.

Now if NASCAR and FOX, who are working on renegotiating their deal, like the ratings who knows. They could make all FOX races primetime races. :lol:


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> The odds of there being another Monday primetime NASCAR race are very very slim. They only did this because it was the Daytona 500. Any other race they would have delayed until Tuesday.
> 
> Now if NASCAR and FOX, who are working on renegotiating their deal, like the ratings who knows. They could make all FOX races primetime races. :lol:


I also think NASCAR really wanted Tuesday for travel. This cross country trek is already going to be hard on the teams but not leaving until Tuesday evening/Wednesday morning would have it much worse. 
I have never been a fan of this cross-country zig zag and believe some place like Texas or Kansas should be scheduled between a race in some place like Florida and Phoenix.


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## Herdfan

fluffybear said:


> I have never been a fan of this cross-country zig zag and believe some place like Texas or Kansas should be scheduled between a race in some place like Florida and Phoenix.


Used to be. Up until 2005 they went from Daytona to Rockingham. That was easy as it was just an hour or two from most shops. The big teams already had their Phoenix cars loaded up and were going to leave on schedule no matter when the 500 was run. The smaller teams don't have multiple haulers and can't do that.


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## fluffybear

Herdfan said:


> Used to be. Up until 2005 they went from Daytona to Rockingham. That was easy as it was just an hour or two from most shops. The big teams already had their Phoenix cars loaded up and were going to leave on schedule no matter when the 500 was run. The smaller teams don't have multiple haulers and can't do that.


and that is why I believe Texas or Kansas should be slid in between Daytona and Phoenix and Phoenix and Homestead.


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## RunnerFL

fluffybear said:


> and that is why I believe Texas or Kansas should be slid in between Daytona and Phoenix and Phoenix and Homestead.


Putting Texas or Kansas between Daytona and Phoenix would actually be more travel.

Current way:
1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
2. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.
3. Race
4. Leave Phoenix for Charlotte.

Your way:
1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
2. Leave Charlotte for Texas/Kansas.
3. Race
4. Leave Texas/Kansas for Charlotte.
5. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.

And if your team is rich enough for 2 haulers and 4 drivers:
1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
2. Hauler 1 leaves Charlotte for Texas/Kansas.
3. Race.
4. Hauler 2 leaves Charlotte for Phoenix.
5. Hauler 1 goes back to Charlotte from Texas/Kansas.


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> Putting Texas or Kansas between Daytona and Phoenix would actually be more travel.
> 
> Current way:
> 1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
> 2. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.
> 3. Race
> 4. Leave Phoenix for Charlotte.
> 
> Your way:
> 1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
> 2. Leave Charlotte for Texas/Kansas.
> 3. Race
> 4. Leave Texas/Kansas for Charlotte.
> 5. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.
> 
> And if your team is rich enough for 2 haulers and 4 drivers:
> 1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
> 2. Hauler 1 leaves Charlotte for Texas/Kansas.
> 3. Race.
> 4. Hauler 2 leaves Charlotte for Phoenix.
> 5. Hauler 1 goes back to Charlotte from Texas/Kansas.


Actually, using the exact scenario mentioned in your quote, my way has a savings of 100 miles but you also forgot to send the team from Charlotte to Texas so the savings continue to grow.

Moving Texas to Race 2 between Daytona and Phoenix would save 1000 miles. Also smaller teams may not need to head back to Charlotte in between these races and just able to move on to Phoenix and Las Vegas saving them considerably more travel time.

Again, I am not talking about rich teams who have multiple haulers and drivers but rather the smaller teams who do not have the finances to be able and afford these luxuries.


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## RunnerFL

fluffybear said:


> You forgot a step on your way:
> 5. leave Charlotte for Texas or Kansas


Umm, no I didn't. It's #2 under "Your way" and #2 under the 2 hauler 4 driver option too.



fluffybear said:


> Actually moving Texas to Race 2 between Daytona and Phoenix would save 1000 miles. Also smaller teams may not need to head back to Charlotte in between races and just able to move on to Phoenix and Las Vegas saving them considerably more travel time.


No, it wouldn't save anything. You don't use the same car at Phoenix that you do at Texas or Kansas. You'd have to go back to Charlotte or meet a second hauler to get your Phoenix cars. You could go from California to Vegas, if you didn't wreck either car, but not between Phoenix and either of those.


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> Umm, no I didn't. It's #2 under "Your way" and #2 under the 2 hauler 4 driver option too.
> 
> No, it wouldn't save anything. You don't use the same car at Phoenix that you do at Texas or Kansas. You'd have to go back to Charlotte or meet a second hauler to get your Phoenix cars. You could go from California to Vegas, if you didn't wreck either car, but not between Phoenix and either of those.


I thought we were discussing smaller teams without multiple haulers and drivers?

As I pointed out, my scenario is 100 miles less than the current system you listed and includes 3 tracks while yours only takes in 2.. I can not see how that is not a savings. Smaller teams who had to go back to Charlotte in between races would save over 1000 miles if Texas were put in between Daytona and Phoenix and Phoenix and Miami.

Even meeting a hauler in Texas at race 2 to get your Phoenix car makes a ton more sense then going all the way to Phoenix for race 2.


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## RunnerFL

fluffybear said:


> I thought we were discussing smaller teams without multiple haulers and drivers?


I was talking about all teams. I gave scenarios for teams with one hauler and teams with more than one hauler.



fluffybear said:


> As I pointed out, my scenario is 100 miles less than the current system you listed and includes 3 tracks while yours only takes in 2.. I can not see how that is not a savings. Smaller teams who had to go back to Charlotte in between races would save over 1000 miles if Texas were put in between Daytona and Phoenix and Phoenix and Miami.
> 
> Even meeting a hauler in Texas at race 2 to get your Phoenix car makes a ton more sense then going all the way to Phoenix for race 2.


Your scenario isn't less at all. It's still the same amount of distance because you HAVE to come back to get your Phoenix cars. Texas cars and Phoenix cars are not the same.

What you're saying would be the same as saying a ton of feathers weighs less than a ton of bricks.


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> I was talking about all teams. I gave scenarios for teams with one hauler and teams with more than one hauler.
> 
> Your scenario isn't less at all. It's still the same amount of distance because you HAVE to come back to get your Phoenix cars. Texas cars and Phoenix cars are not the same.


My Scenario which did include sending teams rom dayrtona to Charlotte & then back Charlotte after Texas to get their Phoenix cars and then proceed to Phoenix is 4500 miles.

Your current scenario which only takes drivers to from Daytona to Charlotte to Phoenix and Back to Charlotte is 4600 miles.

I am at the 3rd track under my system (which included a trip to Charlotte between each race) while you just pulled back into Charlotte after your 2nd


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## RunnerFL

fluffybear said:


> My Scenario which did include sending teams rom dayrtona to Charlotte & then back Charlotte after Texas to get their Phoenix cars and then proceed to Phoenix is 4500 miles.
> 
> Your current scenario which only takes drivers to from Daytona to Charlotte to Phoenix and Back to Charlotte is 4600 miles.
> 
> I am at the 3rd track under my system (which included a trip to Charlotte between each race) while you just pulled back into Charlotte after your 2nd


You may want to go back and read my initial post, you got confused along the way.


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> Putting Texas or Kansas between Daytona and Phoenix would actually be more travel.
> 
> Current way:
> 1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
> 2. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.
> 3. Race
> 4. Leave Phoenix for Charlotte.
> 
> Your way:
> 1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
> 2. Leave Charlotte for Texas/Kansas.
> 3. Race
> 4. Leave Texas/Kansas for Charlotte.
> 5. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.


Your current way: 4600 miles vs my way 4500 miles
Your current way: race at 2 tracks vs my way of race at 3 tracks



RunnerFL said:


> You may want to go back and read my initial post, you got confused along the way.


I did? I'm sorry but if anyone here is confused it sure isn't me..

Did you happen to forget that the Texas track is 1000 miles closer to Charlotte than Phoenix is?

So my trip to texas & back is equal to your one trip out to Phoenix. I then proceed to Phoenix while you are on your way back from there.


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## RunnerFL

fluffybear said:


> I then proceed to Phoenix while you are on your way back from there.


Again, and this is where you are lost, you can't proceed to Phoenix. You have to return to Charlotte to get your Phoenix cars!


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> Again, and this is where you are lost, you can't proceed to Phoenix. You have to return to Charlotte to get your Phoenix cars!


This is where you seem to be lost. I have taken that into consideration. Under my scenario which you outlined in your post sends the teams home after Texas to get cars for Phoenix (it does not send the teams directly on to Phoenix from Texas).


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## RunnerFL

fluffybear said:


> This is where you seem to be lost.


I'm not the one who is lost.



fluffybear said:


> I have taken that into consideration.


No, you haven't. You said "proceed to Phoenix". Again, for the last time, you cannot proceed to Phoenix! You MUST return to Charlotte from Texas to pick up your cars for Phoenix! Not sure how many times or how many ways that can be said before it sinks in.



fluffybear said:


> Under my scenario which you outlined in your post sends the teams home after Texas to get cars for Phoenix (it does not send the teams directly on to Phoenix from Texas).


Yet you say "proceed to Phoenix". It's one or the other dude.


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not the one who is lost.
> 
> No, you haven't. You said "proceed to Phoenix". Again, for the last time, you cannot proceed to Phoenix! You MUST return to Charlotte from Texas to pick up your cars for Phoenix! Not sure how many times or how many ways that can be said before it sinks in.
> 
> Yet you say "proceed to Phoenix". It's one or the other dude.


And how many times must I say that I took that into consideration. I believe I have stated in at least the last 5 or 6 posts that my scenario *going back to Charlotte to pick up cars for Phoenix after Texas* is still a smarter idea and savings than immediately going out to Phoenix.

Go back to your original post where you outlined the scenarios. Now go log into Google Maps and enter exactly what you typed for both scenarios and maybe then you will actually understand it.

BTW, I seem to recall it being mentioned on more than one occasion that several start and park teams have used the same car at a number of tracks including Texas and Phoenix.


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## RunnerFL

fluffybear said:


> And how many times must I say that I took that into consideration. I believe I have stated in at least the last 5 or 6 posts that my scenario *going back to Charlotte to pick up cars for Phoenix after Texas* is still a smarter idea and savings than immediately going out to Phoenix.


You're also saying "proceed to Phoenix".... You can't have both.

NASCAR knows what they are doing. I'm done.


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## Herdfan

RunnerFL said:


> Again, and this is where you are lost, you can't proceed to Phoenix. You have to return to Charlotte to get your Phoenix cars!


Actually teams would probably use smaller 5th wheel trailers to bring the Phoenix cars to meet the main hauler. Similar to what show cars ride around in but they hold 2 cars.


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> Putting Texas or Kansas between Daytona and Phoenix would actually be more travel.
> 
> Current way:
> 1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
> 2. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.
> 3. Race
> 4. Leave Phoenix for Charlotte.
> 
> Your way:
> 1. Pack up from Daytona, head to Charlotte.
> 2. Leave Charlotte for Texas/Kansas.
> 3. Race
> 4. *Leave Texas/Kansas for Charlotte.*
> 5. Leave Charlotte for Phoenix.





fluffybear said:


> My Scenario which did include sending teams rom dayrtona to Charlotte & *then back Charlotte after Texas to get their Phoenix cars* and then proceed to Phoenix is 4500 miles.





fluffybear said:


> This is where you seem to be lost. I have taken that into consideration. Under my scenario which you outlined in your post *sends the teams home after Texas to get cars for Phoenix* (*it does not send the teams directly on to Phoenix from Texas*).





RunnerFL said:


> I'm not the one who is lost.


Yes You are!


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## fluffybear

RunnerFL said:


> You're also saying "proceed to Phoenix".... You can't have both.
> 
> NASCAR knows what they are doing. I'm done.


It was pretty clear what I said, you go back to charlotte after Texas to get yours cars for Phoenix. Of course one would proceed to Phoenix after picking up their cars..

I did not say you proceed directly to Phoenix from Texas. I said some very small teams (teams with one or two cars in their stables) could do that & it has been done in the past.


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## frederic1943

They've got Alcatraz sorted out.

Episode 9 - The Ames Brother is on at 8pm 3/5
Episode 10 - Sonny Burnett is on at 9pm 3/5
Episode 8 - Clarence Montgomery is on at 9pm 3/12


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