# Will DirecTV DVRs ever run as smooth as Comcast X2?



## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

The DirecTV user experience has generally been far superior than anything any other provider could offer. That is until the new Comcast X1 platform updated to X2. Note it's still known as X1 externally, but it will be referenced as the "new" guide. Internally to Comcast the code name is X2.  
It is now rolling out to X1 subscribers as general release. I found a real world video on YouTube when it was still in preview mode. Check it out here:






If you watch that video, you'll notice how smooth and quick things appear on the screen. It's a very graphical HD rich navigation that sort of reminds me of Xbox or Windows 8. Do you think DirecTV will ever get to this level of sophistication in terms of sheer performance? Is DirecTV testing other providers equipment like X1/X2 for inspiration and competitive review? I really hope that some day our sluggish receivers will see performance to this level of speed and fluid UI someday.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

By the work, I seen done by DirecTV inhouse software designers with the switch of the SD Guide to HD, my answer would be no to your question.


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

The same thing happen to me on the forum support section, accidentally send double topics with error message popup.


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## fireponcoal (Sep 26, 2009)

Made with love, in Philadelphia.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Their speed is very nice. I don't really care for flashy stuff but the response is great. Comcast seems to have done a good job.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

fireponcoal said:


> Made with love, in Philadelphia.


I saw that. Nice touch.

But are you saying DirecTV, made with whatever spare parts we had lying around in our garage, in Los Angeles? LA is closer to Silicon Valley than Philly!

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## fireponcoal (Sep 26, 2009)

DirecTV seems to me made with a ton of love as well to be perfectly honest... Being a Philly folk I couldn't help but like the addition.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Unless it's an hr44 or newer I don't think they can get to much faster or Handel to much more of a graphical interface myself.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Read that the Comcast x1 DVR has an Intel Atom CE4200 processor. I'm not sure how that ranks vs whats in an HR24, 34, or 44.


The HR44 is fast people say... But is it intel fast?


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## Bambler (May 31, 2006)

It wasn't too long ago that DirecTV, in my opinion, had a much better guide and interface than Comcast (I have both right now). Even the "sluggish" DirecTV setup was way better than what Comcast offered. In fact, it was so bad, I use to hate using Comcast other than tuning into a specific channel. 

It's completely flopped now. 

DirecTV is like the Comcast of yesterday compared to the X1. Comcast has done an impressive job with the speed, simplicity and capability. It's actually intuitive and pleasant to use now compared to the train wreck the Comcast interface use to be. It's much better than anything I've seen on DirecTV so far. 

Can DirecTV ever get better? I don't know considering the way they handle and charge for equipment. I don't think a simple software upgrade would even sniff what X1 can do, although I'm really not a technical expert by any means.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

cypherx said:


> The HR44 is fast people say... But is it intel fast?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


No its not!


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Tivo Roamios are also much faster then HR44


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> By the work, I seen done by DirecTV inhouse software designers with the switch of the SD Guide to HD, my answer would be no to your question.


While I tend to agree with you, I have to wonder if it is more that the programmers were told to make the HD GUI as much like the older SD UI as possible so that all D* equipment is as nearly the same from a UI standpoint. In that they were successful.

Unfortunately for many of us, they took no advantage of having HD in the process and missed the boat when they made the HD GUI.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

cypherx said:


> But are you saying DirecTV, made with whatever spare parts we had lying around in our garage, in Los Angeles?


Isn't that what your saying?

Comcast is continuing to incrementally improve the X user experience and DIRECTV has been stagnant since (or arguably during) implementation of their HD GUI?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> While I tend to agree with you, I have to wonder if it is more that the programmers were told to make the HD GUI as much like the older SD UI as possible so that all D* equipment is as nearly the same from a UI standpoint. In that they were successful.


There's two goals at work here:

1. Minimize support costs
2. Motivate customers to upgrade

While they may have succeeded in goal #1 (the Party Line goal), they certainly didn't do themselves any favors on goal #2 (the selling point of the HD upgrade goal).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> By the work, I seen done by DirecTV inhouse software designers with the switch of the SD Guide to HD, my answer would be no to your question.


We should never forget what happened when we switched to the HD Guide. We really have to careful what we wish for. A stable HR is enough for me.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Bambler said:


> It wasn't too long ago that DirecTV, in my opinion, had a much better guide and interface than Comcast (I have both right now). Even the "sluggish" DirecTV setup was way better than what Comcast offered. In fact, it was so bad, I use to hate using Comcast other than tuning into a specific channel.
> 
> It's completely flopped now.
> 
> ...


This is kinda like a bad baseball team that has so many fans that they fill the stadium each game. After a while the attendance drops off and they have to field a winning team. But as long as there are fannys in the seats, nothing much happens. Right now, D* has the stadium full, why change?

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

It is certainly possible for Directv to make the software run far faster, probably at least an order of magnitude, than it is now. The issue making it slow has something to do with the competency of the programmers, but more to do with the software layer/toolkit chosen to implement it. Too often that's chosen by the availability of programmers than anything else.

For example, Tivo licensed Flash software for their HD GUI, and many have seen how even on a high end PC Flash can sometimes be slow if poorly programmed, and will never be accused of being fast no matter how well programmed. Why did Tivo do that, versus using one of the many GUI layers designed for performance? Because there are a lot of Flash programmers around, so they are easy to find and not too expensive. If they used something else it would be harder to find experienced people and they'd either have to pay them more or spend time training them. They apparently decided those savings outweighed whatever revenue they might gain from a lightning fast GUI.

The main dig on Tivo wasn't the HD GUI being so much slower than the SD GUI. It was how slow the process of conversion was (they still have some menus in SD!) and how unstable the HD GUI was for a long time. Fortunately Tivo made/makes it possible to choose between them. For the first year or two I owned my Premiere I used the SD GUI, though eventually the HD GUI started performing a bit better and was more stable so I switched - though the SD GUI is still faster. It seems to be a bit slower than the H24's HD GUI, for comparison with Directv gear. I don't have any DVRs, so I don't know how it compares to a HR24 or HR44.

The newer Tivo Roamio is apparently much faster, but being newer by 4 years should be able to have about 4x the CPU performance for the same price, so that makes sense. Tivo made a decision that made it easier/cheaper to implement the HD GUI, knowing that it would perform worse on the same hardware due to their choice of Flash, but figured by making the old GUI available no one would be terribly put out by it.

I don't know what toolkit Directv is using for its HD GUI, but it certainly wasn't chosen for performance. The reason Directv's HD GUI performance angered/frustrated so many was because there was no way to go back to the SD GUI as there is with Tivo. I guess they must not have had room in the firmware for both - that's probably why it was changed all at once, instead of bit by bit over agonizing years like Tivo. Us Tivo owners sometimes wonder if they have only one programmer! The speed of development for pushing out new features on Directv does seem to be much better than Tivo. How much those new features are worth (I'm looking at you "apps") is my main issue with the new stuff being pushed out by Tivo.


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## Bambler (May 31, 2006)

Rich said:


> This is kinda like a bad baseball team that has so many fans that they fill the stadium each game. After a while the attendance drops off and they have to field a winning team. But as long as there are fannys in the seats, nothing much happens. Right now, D* has the stadium full, why change?
> 
> Rich


That's not an inspiring attitude on DirecTV's part. You're right in that analogy, but less they forget the reasons that got them there in the first place. Standing still is the same as going backwards.

Complacency and arrogance is a horrible thing. Before you know it, what was once on top, becomes bottom and even worse, most companies fail to realize what slipped because of that attitude as other companies innovate past them.

I get the sense DirecTV has reached that point now: they seem to have a take it or leave approach to programming and their user interface is slipping beyond the likes of even Comcast, which says a lot.

If you're a DirecTV hater, let's hope they keep this attitude.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

This is a good discussion. I'll throw another aspect in. Does a speedy (or flashy GUI) sell product? Since Comcast did so well with their crappy interface, it is hard to argue it does.


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

Is the X1 software on a new box only? and do they still have old boxs out there to support. If so directv could make a change like that but do they want to.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

tonyd79 said:


> This is a good discussion. I'll throw another aspect in. Does a speedy (or flashy GUI) sell product? Since Comcast did so well with their crappy interface, it is hard to argue it does.


Well unlike other cable providers that were bleeding video subs, Comcast had a good 4th quarter and added 43,000 video subscribers. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Bucks-Trend-Adds-43000-Video-Subscribers-127505

Could it be from the heavy push of X1? I know in our area they have been advertising pretty heavily on the networks and also had a Super Bowl commercial appearance.

It seems appealing to the younger crowd as it's very visual and smooth. It just seems like it's running off of an Xbox 360, but it's not. Again I'm not sure what CPU specifically is in the HR44 and how it compares to Intel Atom CE4200.

Don't get me wrong, I love me some DirecTV. I just hope that one day they can make the user experience a little less agonizing. By that I mean speed / performance. Visually I think DirecTV looks very good in fit, finish and professionalism. Granted I have an HR24, so maybe it's seen better days by now. But the biggest thing is the delay between button presses. Then sometimes it plays "catch up" because I hit a button multiple times since nothing happened. So it gets caught in a loop. It gets frustrating, especially the delays when changing channels.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

There are so many reasons why a specific provider would add or lose subs, that I can't see how you could even suggest it has to do with the X1. If you offer a deal that's better than the competition, you'll gain subscribers. If the competition offers a better deal that you don't match, or are missing channels people in a certain area consider important you'll lose subscribers.

A lot of people are frustrated by slow GUIs on set tops, but I've never heard of anyone switching from Directv to Dish or Comcast to TWC or whatever over set top performance. They ask people why they're switching, I'll bet they've never heard that given at a reason, or it is so far down the list it doesn't matter. That's why there has been little priority put on it.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Bambler said:


> That's not an inspiring attitude on DirecTV's part.


I would take that with a grain of salt, at the end of the day, we not sure that is DirecTV POV


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> There are so many reasons why a specific provider would add or lose subs, that I can't see how you could even suggest it has to do with the X1. If you offer a deal that's better than the competition, you'll gain subscribers. If the competition offers a better deal that you don't match, or are missing channels people in a certain area consider important you'll lose subscribers.
> 
> A lot of people are frustrated by slow GUIs on set tops, but I've never heard of anyone switching from Directv to Dish or Comcast to TWC or whatever over set top performance. They ask people why they're switching, I'll bet they've never heard that given at a reason, or it is so far down the list it doesn't matter. That's why there has been little priority put on it.


This exactly how I see it. There might be a few that switch because of this, but not enough to "run" and make a change. The majority of folks tat switched, they don't even know or think about the next providers' UI. the main reason for switching is price


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Cable boxes have always been a weak spot when it came to bells and whistles. 

So yes I feel a better receiver does help increase cable sales. 
I for one would still be with cable had they had whole home Tivos or X1's. 
Other than NFL ST, and out of market sports, DirectTV doesn't hold a candle to our areas cable when it comes to Locals and even some network programming. 

But Directvs customers are used to slow and buggy but functional HR, that I don't think a better HR would bring in more customers. Again. Only my opinion. 

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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Cable boxes have always been a weak spot when it came to bells and whistles.
> 
> So yes I feel a better receiver does help increase cable sales.
> I for one would still be with cable had they had whole home Tivos or X1's.
> ...


In what way is your cable provider better with local networks? I don't see how anyone is really better than the other unless they just don't carry all the channels.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

damondlt said:


> Cable boxes have always been a weak spot when it came to bells and whistles.
> 
> So yes I feel a better receiver does help increase cable sales.
> I for one would still be with cable had they had whole home Tivos or X1's.
> ...


In what way is your cable provider better with local networks? I don't see how anyone is really better than the other unless they just don't carry all the channels.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

Well for locals we're in the middle of 3 cities so on cable I get locals from NY, Phil and Scranton plus some other locals that D doesn't carry, with D I only get 1 set of locals only. I'm also waiting to see what blue ridge cable gets in my area, they're testing the Tivo T6 Multiroom and if that UI is better than D then I'm back to cable.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

cypherx said:


> Well unlike other cable providers that were bleeding video subs, Comcast had a good 4th quarter and added 43,000 video subscribers. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Bucks-Trend-Adds-43000-Video-Subscribers-127505Could it be from the heavy push of X1? I know in our area they have been advertising pretty heavily on the networks and also had a Super Bowl commercial appearance.It seems appealing to the younger crowd as it's very visual and smooth. It just seems like it's running off of an Xbox 360, but it's not. Again I'm not sure what CPU specifically is in the HR44 and how it compares to Intel Atom CE4200. Don't get me wrong, I love me some DirecTV. I just hope that one day they can make the user experience a little less agonizing. By that I mean speed / performance. Visually I think DirecTV looks very good in fit, finish and professionalism. Granted I have an HR24, so maybe it's seen better days by now. But the biggest thing is the delay between button presses. Then sometimes it plays "catch up" because I hit a button multiple times since nothing happened. So it gets caught in a loop. It gets frustrating, especially the delays when changing channels.


Being in an area that recently rolled out X1, I know comcast paired the rollout with a) aggressive campaigning and b) aggressive deals. I would think those had as much to do with any success they've had with sales as anything else. A lot of the X1 areas also coincided with headend updates that provided more HD channels and better On Demand. So, X1 is more for Comcast than the GUI. Even in this area, where they were very much behind on HD, the X1 rollout and the headend upgrade got them into their normal range of HD channels. That helps as well.

Also, I'd bet that the positive advertising works. Comcast and been totally negative in their ads. They are now upbeat. That helps too.

A lot of this is part of the X1 rollout and campaign but is not focused on the whiz bang and speed of the GUI per se.

BTW, my nephew works for Comcast and I get a more positive vibe from him about it with the X1 rollout. Seems like they now have something they are proud of. That positive energy can pay off in a lot of ways.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> In what way is your cable provider better with local networks? I don't see how anyone is really better than the other unless they just don't carry all the channels.


I'd say fios, as an example, is better with locals than directv for me. Directv has Baltimore only. Fios has all of Baltimore and about half of DC plus all the associated subs for all those channels. One of the reasons I have fios TV with my internet as I can't get things OTA.


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