# Dish Depot is taking 921 preorders.



## John Corn

Dear Dish Depot Members,

921 available for preorder today. Trade in allowances also available with 921 purchases.

http://www.dishdepot.com/Cart/items.php?CA=921+Preorder&UID= 2003021406515765.40.45.59


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## ibglowin

I am offically on the list! Bring that bad boy on! Beware the fine print that says if you cancel your order your card will be charged a $50 cancellation fee. 

Serious orders only!


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## angiodan

Well, the excitement sucked me in! Time to start cutting back on groceries!!!!


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## Big D

Mark at DishDepot is true to his word. Earlier this week I suggested in an email to Mark he start a preorder list for the 921 now rather than later and indeed the preorder list is up today as he promised. My order is in, so everyone else can get in line right behind me :lol: :lol: 

Be aware that he is placing a cancellation fee of $50.00 on your credit card if you preorder now and cancel later, so serious buyers only. He had over (200) 721 preorders and was able to ship those out in a very timely manner because he had early visibility into that number for his order to the manufacturer, we want that to happen again with the 921. So get your orders in now if you want to be one of the first to own a 921.

He is still not sure of pricing or ship dates, but promises to let us know as soon as he does. He does say his price will be retail (expected for a new product) but with free shipping. Speaking of shipping, I sure hope they double box the units this time, the flimsy box the 721 was sold in did not stand up to shipping across country, it came literally in pieces. Luckily the unit itself was not damaged, but Mark did say he had others that were.

I am still hoping it will be $999.00, any more and E* will see the numbers sold smaller than they want I am sure.


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## Jason

Big D,

I just preordered as well. I second your hope that the 921's are double boxed! My 721 box was mangled to pieces and that can't be good for the hardware in the unit. A box cannot cost that much money so I would hope that everything is double boxed from now on.


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## Chris Blount

Mark at Dish Depot is double boxing now. When I ordered my 721 last month, it came double boxed.

I have also ordered my 921. I should be one of the first to get one so you can be sure that a review will be posted here on DBSTalk within a day of when I get my hands it.


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## angiodan

Chris, I'm going to drive to Dish Depot to pick mine up, so maybe I'll beat you to the punch!

But I'll let you review it, being the administrator and all!

The advantage of being 20 mins. away from the great Dish Depot!


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## Scott Greczkowski

Im not saying a word.


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## Big D

You don't have to, Scott. We all know you have got the inside track on an early look-see and that is just fine with me. I really do want you and Chris to have the very first units to look at and review for us, even if that gives you bragging rights as to who first had one!


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## Greg Haynes

Scott,

Can you give us a nod if Dish Depot is accurate in saying around June 2003 for the release of the 921? Also does anyone know the exact dimensions for the 921. I need to know if its going to be fit on my shelf where my 721 sits now. I know the height of the 921 is much taller than the 721 but by how much?

I'm very excited that 921 will finally be released this year and that I'm hopefully going to be a part of the first group to try out the 921. Can't wait till DishDepot sends us out more info on the release date and pricing.


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## Martyva

The 921 I saw was over 6" The JVC TU9000 is the about the same height as th 721. It will be available in April.


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## motjes2

Just ordered mine. I hope it does not take until June...


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## Greg Haynes

Wonder how many preorders DishDepot will accept?


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## Scott Greczkowski

Hey folks if I can ask a favor of everyone, when you place your order at DishDepot please mention that you are a member of DBSTalk.COM somwhere on your order.

By letting them know you are a member of DBSTalk you are helping us out and let's DishDepot know you are an informed customer.

Your help with this helps us all out! While DishDepot does not support DBSTalk.COM they do provide prizes to us to give away to YOU our members!

DBSTalk.COM is funded by the support of our members. Thanks to everyone for their support!


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## Raymond Simonian

Scott, I e-mailed Dish Depot.com on 2/12/03 and told them I have been reading the threads on DBStalk.com and that a preorder list would be announced soon. They got back to me and I put I am on the preorder list as of yesterday, 9/15/03, for the 921. I have been a Dish Network customer for a year and have postponed getting the 6000 all of this time even though I have a wide screen TV. So this was great news for me.


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## sampatterson

Just pre-ordered 2 of them. I love that Mark @ DishDepot does the trade-ins. Good stuff.

Sam


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## Danny R

Will the pre-orders still be around once the actual price is known? If the 921 comes in around $999 then I can go for it. But much more than that and I can't. I don't want to blow $50.


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## Big D

Who knows when the price will become available, if it follows the 721 model, not to soon before the availability of the unit. Early preorders are for those of us who are going to buy it at $999 or $1,299, there is no other way to put it. If it turns out to be ~$1,499, then I will back out and take the $50 hit, but then at that price, so will most folks. If you wait for the pricing to be set and it turns out to be within your budget, great, but you may well not be in the first batch to go out. Maybe that would be a better (safer) approach for some.


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## Greg Haynes

Big D is right. If Dish sets the price at ~$1,499 then I'll be backing out also. I really hope Dish realizes that setting the price at $1,499 or more will really detract alot of people. The $999 is the perfect price point.


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## kelliot

I'd be happy to make a pre-order if Dish could come up with a firm price.


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## belsokar

just in case someone out there is listening...I too am very wary of pre-ordering before I have a rough idea what the price is...My definite price point is $999. Anything higher and I cannot justify the purchase, much less a $50 fee just for being on a list. While I've heard many great things about dish depot, I cannot understand the $50 fee for backing out, especially since there is no price I have agreed to pay. Is this even legal? It doesn't seem right that I am "agreeing" to buy something at ANY price or have to pay $50 if I don't agree to that price. If there were a firm price, it seems like it would be more legally binding...

...again, this is just a question, I am not trying to knock on dish depot or anything...I understand this is a great service they are providing for all the early adapters on these boards...and that this preorder list will probably allow them to provide more people with hardware sooner than other retailers...I just wish we knew a price before we committed to the purchase...


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## davhol

We know a general "ballpark" price, that being roughly $1,000 (or more). A likely reason for the $50 back-out charge is that, as a retailer, he orders that number of pre-order units from his supplier and they ship him that many units based on his ability to move that much merchandise. If he orders more equipment than he can move, then he incurs a stocking fee (he has to have space to store the units and, more importatnly, has to "float" that much money from his pocketbook to pay for those units which don't have an as-yet owner). That is why the caveat "Serious buyers only!" If you want a unit, and want it when it first arrives, this is the "price" you have to pay: uncertain final price (but you already know the ballpark) and a back-out fee. If you've got a limit on your finances and can't afford to go over a certain amount, then you'll have to wait "in line" with the rest of the crowd that chooses to wait until they have all the facts. The privilege of having one of the first units comes with a "price" of uncertainty (is it $999 or is it $1099, or $1199 or $1299 or what?).


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## Big D

Great post, davhol. You have really captured what is going on here and I feel exactly as you do.


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## Frapp

> _Originally posted by belsokar _
> *just in case someone out there is listening...I too am very wary of pre-ordering before I have a rough idea what the price is...My definite price point is $999. Anything higher and I cannot justify the purchase, much less a $50 fee just for being on a list. While I've heard many great things about dish depot, I cannot understand the $50 fee for backing out, especially since there is no price I have agreed to pay. Is this even legal? It doesn't seem right that I am "agreeing" to buy something at ANY price or have to pay $50 if I don't agree to that price. If there were a firm price, it seems like it would be more legally binding...
> 
> ...again, this is just a question, I am not trying to knock on dish depot or anything...I understand this is a great service they are providing for all the early adapters on these boards...and that this preorder list will probably allow them to provide more people with hardware sooner than other retailers...I just wish we knew a price before we committed to the purchase... *


I have been holding my tongue on this one for a few days now and I am ABSOLUTELY stunned that no one else has questioned this so called $50.00 back-out fee before now.

You are correct in the fact that it is not legal, you cannot .. REPEAT cannot .... charge anyone a fee for something that you never delivered or provided. The credit card chargeback departments would be all over this in a heartbeat and it is amazing that so many here are willing to support the folks at D.D. on this issue or at least they say they will until their card gets charged 

The new 921,s will appear at other online retailers about the same time or very shortly after D.D. get`s their first allotment. In some cases over the years I have seen other retailers have a new product before them anyway. For instance, when the 721 was released and the D.D. folks supposedly sent one of the first units to Scott here at DBSTALK, I has access to get one out of Echostar Southeast a week prior to that.

Be patient, the new 921,s will appear at many reputable online dealers before long and as is typically true in the past, they will probably be cheaper than D.D. :shrug:


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## UnnDunn

The service that D.D. is providing is the *assurance* that you _will_ get one of the first batch of units, if you want it. That is what costs the $50. If you pay the $50, then decide you want a unit and are forced to wait months after release, then you'd have a case for legal action.


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## sampatterson

Actually it is totally legal. By most card merchant agreements, a vendor can impose whatever restrictions he wants on credit card transactions except for charging a "fee" to use a credit card instead of cash, and the like, as long as the terms are clearly stated to the cardholder. Hotels (you get charged for one night if you don't cancel by their stated cancellation policy, airlines (non-refundable ticket policies), and so on do this. "Special orders" are also covered, as well as "restocking fees".

Dish Depot has every right to say that if you special pre-order and back out, he can charge a $50 fee, whether that is a restocking or inventory fee, or so on. Sounds like his policy keeps people who really aren't interested in pre-ordering from making him buy excess inventory that he then has to try to sell.

Just my 2 cents... 



> _Originally posted by Frapp _
> *
> 
> You are correct in the fact that it is not legal, you cannot .. REPEAT cannot .... charge anyone a fee for something that you never delivered or provided. The credit card chargeback departments would be all over this in a heartbeat and it is amazing that so many here are willing to support the folks at D.D. on this issue or at least they say they will until their card gets charged
> *


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## Mark Lamutt

*Admin hat off*

Just my $0.02 here - Mark is offering the preorders for the 921 solely because we asked him to, and by WE I mean those of us who want to get our hot little hands on the new box first. And while he has a pretty good size operation going on, he certainly isn't big enough to be able to absorb the cost of 100 921s sitting on shelves in a warehouse because people who say they want one really don't.

This is a favor to us, and I for one have absolutely no problem with him implementing a $50 chargeback to ensure that the preorders are serious. He has to protect himself, because he will purchase enough 921s to cover the preorders and then a few more most likely.


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## sampatterson

You look totally different with your "*admin hat off" :lol: *


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## sampatterson

BTW, here is an example of what Dish Depot is doing - on Amazon... The product is the Segway and their "back out" fee is $495.

Sam

-------------
Segway Human Transporter
First come, first served for delivery starting March 2003
Offered by Segway

Be the first on your block! Available now for delivery starting March 2003. First come, first served.

Price: $4,950.00 
Nonrefundable deposit: $495.00 (due now for 2003 delivery) 
Availability: Deliveries will begin on a first come, first served basis beginning March 1, 2003, and all units reserved through this special offer will be delivered by July 31, 2003.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007EPJ6/ref%3Dsegway%5Ftn%5Fleft/104-0611317-9803921


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## Frapp

> _Originally posted by sampatterson _
> *Actually it is totally legal. By most card merchant agreements, a vendor can impose whatever restrictions he wants on credit card transactions except for charging a "fee" to use a credit card instead of cash, and the like, as long as the terms are clearly stated to the cardholder. Hotels (you get charged for one night if you don't cancel by their stated cancellation policy, airlines (non-refundable ticket policies), and so on do this. "Special orders" are also covered, as well as "restocking fees". <snip> *


That`s kind of like selling Dish systems online, having people sign one-year programming agreements and if they fail to honor the one year commitment, you charge them a pre-determined amount ( $100 - $200 ) early termination fee as stated on the agreement, then when they dispute the charge you send the credit card company a copy of the contract and say , no, no, we can charge this because they agreed to pay it ............................. then you get a nasty letter from the credit card company denying your chargeback on the customer because you never provided them with a product or service. Oh, you also get a nasty letter from the C.C. company threatening to pull your account if you try that again 

Bottom line here is this situation will appear later this spring or early summer when the 921,s do indeed start shipping. Now we know that with the current economy, several people have pre-ordered this thing and will not be able to accept it or the spouse will kill the sale when they find out about it. So, we will see how this develops in the near future 

Once again, I will also harp on the fact that if you look around a bit when they are released, many online vendors should be cheaper than D.D. as this is typically what I have observed :shrug:


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## belsokar

> _Originally posted by sampatterson _
> *BTW, here is an example of what Dish Depot is doing - on Amazon... The product is the Segway and their "back out" fee is $495.
> 
> Sam
> 
> -------------
> Segway Human Transporter
> First come, first served for delivery starting March 2003
> Offered by Segway
> 
> Be the first on your block! Available now for delivery starting March 2003. First come, first served.
> 
> Price: $4,950.00
> Nonrefundable deposit: $495.00 (due now for 2003 delivery)
> Availability: Deliveries will begin on a first come, first served basis beginning March 1, 2003, and all units reserved through this special offer will be delivered by July 31, 2003.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007EPJ6/ref%3Dsegway%5Ftn%5Fleft/104-0611317-9803921 *


I agree with what everyone is saying...however, I think the comparisons to others like Amazon are a bit different than this situation. Amazon has stated "The purchase price is $4995", not "$5000 or more". Amazon's contract is that you will pay a specified price. If the Segway retailed instead at $6000, I doubt anyone who made a $495 deposit would be legally bound to the new price. (I could be wrong) Again, I don't doubt the legality of contracts that spell out extra fees, but in this case, we don't know what we are paying. It seems doubtful to me (and again, I could be wrong), that dish depot will not know the retail price before actually requesting an allotment of systems. To be honest, I don't know the business of how this works, so I could be completely wrong about all of this.

In summation, I would love to have a 921, and I would love to be one of the first to receive one,...I hate waiting on new technology, and have several times paid the premiums associated with being an early adapter. I for one however like to know exactly how much I'm going to pay. If dish depot knows a retail price at some point before requesting X amount of systems, then I will definitely be able to put my name on the list (if it is affordable). Otherwise, the service he is providing is still a great one, I am just wishful that it could be one step greater, and we would know the retail price on this sucker.


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## Kagato

I don't get the fee. It's not like the 721 was a cheap seat and you were lucky to get one with in a month of your initial order. I don't think DD is going to be stuck with any 921's.

As far as charging them, well that's a merchant agreement dealie. I wouldn't bother with the charge. Most merchant banks start an ivestigation clock running the moment someone disputes a charge. 1 hour = $100. Way more trouble than it's worth. Specially when you're in a no win sitution. (Most merchant agreements have an audit clause where they can ask for the sig and card imprint. If you don't have it, they don't pay.)

Still I can't fault them for the pre-order. And if you're considering not ordering because of the $50, you aren't a serious buyer. Although a legitimate complaint would be that DD was taking way to long to ship and you decided to go with another merchant. Who's at fault then? You for getting sick of wating X number of weeks, or the merchant for not being able to deliver quick enough?


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## rudolpht

DishDepot is a great company and they do work on trust. I have bought a fair quantity of items from them and they will send out a replacement or new item in advance of receiving trade-ins etc. If you are a serious buyer they are the one place to shop. They will be getting a fair quantity of any new item, but I expect the initial Echostar shipments to be a trickle. They ship in order of people ordering (religiously) so "sign up" to take a number!

Tim


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## JohnMI

I noticed that a couple people mentioned that they were happy about Dish Depot's trade-in policy... So, with people saying that, I thought that I'd mention that I'd likely be happy to beat most of their trade-in prices if people are interested. I mean, I'll happily give more than $100 for a PVR50x or more than $275 for a PVR721 or more than $250 for a 600 with the right upgrades!

So -- for you people going "I'm glad Dish Depot has those trade-in deals!" -- please send me an email and I'll PayPal you more and much quicker than they will issue you a credit! 

- John...


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## Jacob S

How much do they give for 301's and 2700, 2800, 3700, 3800 receivers? Do they give credit on them even if they have a bill run up on them or ppv on the receivers? I would probably give more than they would as well for some of the receivers too with paypal with a quicker payment and use the hardware to sell to customers or people that need the receivers.


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## jerryyyyy

I see my birthday coming up,especially since they give $250 back for the 721. 

Just to be sure, to fully use this machine you also need a high definition TV, right? I am currently piping S-video into a 35" tube and it looks pretty good. Are there recommendations on TVs out there?


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## SParker

I could be wrong but I think you can use the 921 with a analog set. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


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## sampatterson

That is correct, the specs say it has an s-video out.


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## BobMurdoch

> _Originally posted by jerryyyyy _
> *I see my birthday coming up,especially since they give $250 back for the 721.
> 
> *


I think you could do much better than the trade in Mark is offering. Hey, I like Mark at Dish Depot as much as the next guy, but his trade in prices are MUCH lower than what you would fetch on EBay or even what you would get advertising here.

The 721 would be a good value at $400. Some have even gone lower, but since the new ones still cost $550, there is a strong resale market for these receivers.


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## sampatterson

Trade-in value depends on how lazy you are... If you are like me, it is much easier to put them in a box and ship them with labels that Mark has sent, then to enter them on e-bay, answer all the stupid emails that come in, hope you don't get scammed out of your money, pay the ebay fees, etc etc.


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## BobMurdoch

Point taken........


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## dmodemd

Its a nonrefundable deposit - perfectly legal.


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## Lee L

Well, certainly Dish Depot is not taking the receivers back soley to give lots of money to the customer. He is going to have to sell the things to other customers or on ebay himself. I'm sure many people like the convenience of just dealing with DD and not having to sell on ebay themselves. 

Just like with a car. Most of the time you can get more money by selling your car privately yet most people trade in at the dealer for less because it is simpler and the risk is on the dealer, not you.


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## BobMurdoch

I did not mean to condemn DishDepot for making a profit, I was only trying to give those who are considering upgrading, but balking at the expected cost of the 921, another way to make up the difference.

I agree that dealing with a reputable dealer is preferred over getting the best price at any cost (I bought my TV at Circuit City as I am not THAT comfortable with making this large a purchase from some potential "fly by night" e-tailer).


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## sampatterson

Good point Bob, especially for Dish Players which can make quite the killing on ebay compared to trade-in allowance. I am trying ebay again on a Denon receiver I am selling to see if it is any better than my last auction.


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## Guest

I just talked to Mark at Dish Depot. He really is as nice and helpful as folks here say he is. At my request, he has made a change to the pre-order form. It now reads:

"... a $50 fee will be charged to your cc in the event of cancellation, that is unless the
price exceeds $1250.00, then there will be no cancellation charge."

This lets me breath easier, since $1250 is below my squeel point. I hate the idea of
paying $50 and getting nothing, in case Dish lost their minds and tried selling this
unit for $1400 or higher.

It is also interesting to note that Mark opened up the pre-order page for two regular customers itching to get their hands on a 921. He felt that his 63 orders (as of last
week) was very little. I felt it represented thirty times the expected volume!


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## Big D

I have been following this thread with great interest as I was one of those two regular customers itching to get their hands on an early 921. When I asked Mark to start the preorder list, he mentioned to me that the 721 preorder list grew to about 200 units, far exceeding his initial thoughts. My guess is that the 921 list will be somewhat smaller, but with 63 already, who knows.

Anyway, I appreciate that Mark has put the caveat on the pricing for the $50.00 cancellation fee, it is an appropriate stance for a top flight business to take. Thanks, Mark.


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## belsokar

i think this is great news...now us who are on the price borderline can pre-order (or not pre-order) with more confidence in how much this might set us back!!!


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## BobMurdoch

I think if he removed the $50 cancellation fee that number would go even higher. People are just not too comfortable putting down a deposit when the price has not been set yet. (I'm one of them.)

Bottom line, if the price is <=$999 I'm definitely in. $1000 - 1299, I'll wince and probably cave. Over $1300, I'll wait and see if the prices come down when hard drive prices drop.

Who am I kidding? I'll probably STILL get it, I just have to find a way to properly break the news to my significant other. Being able to see OTA HD broadcasts from Philly will probably do the trick (due to the boneheaded rules which prohibit me from getting Philly locals here (I'm closer to Philly's transmission towers than New York's but all of Monmouth and Ocean County are designated as New York territories here in NJ) .


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## Chris Blount

My main reason for wanting a 921 is to be able to time shift HD broadcasts. My wife doesn't like the idea but I figure after I sell my 6000 and 501, the final bill should be significantly lower.


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## Mark Lamutt

My wife doesn't like the idea much either, especially since I have 2 hipix cards that I can timeshift 2 different OTA feeds with now already. But I've been wanting a 921 for a couple of years now and fortunately she understands enough to let me get it.


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## BobMurdoch

> _Originally posted by Big D _
> *I have been following this thread with great interest as I was one of those two regular customers itching to get their hands on an early 921. When I asked Mark to start the preorder list, he mentioned to me that the 721 preorder list grew to about 200 units, far exceeding his initial thoughts. My guess is that the 921 list will be somewhat smaller, but with 63 already, who knows.
> 
> Anyway, I appreciate that Mark has put the caveat on the pricing for the $50.00 cancellation fee, it is an appropriate stance for a top flight business to take. Thanks, Mark. *


There is a BIG difference between a $550 and a $1000-1500 price tag. Most of us can make a three digit purchase without feeling TOO much pain, but raise that to a four digit purchase and you start talking Home Equity Line type of purchases for some (or max the credit card out for others)


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## Ken_F

> There is a BIG difference between a $550 and a $1000-1500 price tag. Most of us can make a three digit purchase without feeling TOO much pain, but raise that to a four digit purchase and you start talking Home Equity Line type of purchases for some (or max the credit card out for others)


Get a job at DISH, or bribe one of the engineers to get on the beta. Then you get programming free for a few months, and can purchase the final product at 30-50% off.  But certainly, $1000-$1300 for the 921 is no small lump of change...


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## mbart0656

Has anyone heard if the 921 will have any better OTA performance and an upgraded MPEG decoder (compared to the 6000) for all that money?


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## Ken_F

mbart,

What was wrong with the MPEG2 decoder in the 6000? The 6000 used the same SGS-Thomson MPEG2 decoder as the original RCA DTC100 (although possibly a newer revision of the chip).

The 921 uses a newer decoder from Broadcom; in fact, I believe it uses the same [email protected] decoder as the 721, except with the extra memory that is required for this chipset to support HDTV. As to whether the MPEG2 decoding of this chip is "better," or whether people will actually see a difference, I do not know. There is one benefit of this chipset, however; it can do simultaneous SD and HD output, which the chip used in the 6000 cannot. As far as limitations, it sounds like this chip won't offer picture-in-picture while watching a HDTV channel, but only PIP when watching SD channels.

As far as OTA performance, I was somewhat disappointed that DISH chose to use a second-generation 8VSB demod and tuner stage from Broadcom. This second-generation chip(s) is more than two years old. It is only a few months newer than the Nxtwave demod found in the 6000's 8VSB module, so it will probably offer comparable performance. In comparison, some new and upcoming DirecTV HDTV receivers feature "2.5 generation" technology for OTA reception (like Samsung boxes).

In the 921 PVR, DISH seems to have employed as much Broadcom technology as they could to minimize the costs and complexities of integration and hardware/software development. Unfortunately, Broadcom does not have a newer chip for OTA coming out until next year, so DISH elected to use the older one instead. IIRC, the 921 does have two upgrade slots, so it's least possible for them to offer an OTA upgrade when true "third generation" 8VSB demods / tuning stages become available next year.


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## SParker

Mark I just ordered a MYHD PCI HDTV card for my PC to try out HDTV. How do you like your cards?



> _Originally posted by Mark Lamutt _
> *My wife doesn't like the idea much either, especially since I have 2 hipix cards that I can timeshift 2 different OTA feeds with now already. But I've been wanting a 921 for a couple of years now and fortunately she understands enough to let me get it. *


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## mbart0656

Ken, I am by no means of an expert in MPEG encoding/decoding but I have been following the threads on AVS Forum about the Mitsubishi Promise Module in which many have stated that the picture looks clearer with the PM as compared to the Dish receiver. Since this comment is true for OTA or satellite, the issue can not be in the Dish signal. Also, the 8VSB modulation is merely the tranmission means, there should not be any degradation of the signal as long as you have a locked signal. My next guess in the chain was the decoder and video processing. I know that all the smarts in MPEG coding is in the encoder and the decoder just follows what it is told to do but I was just hoping that Dish would upgrade the components. My only reasoning about this is that when DVD came out, a lot of the 8 bit Video DACs in a lot of the early players had some noticeable pixelization. Time has marched on and a lot of players use 10 and even 12 bits to reduce quanitzation errors and the pictures are better looking. For over $1,000, I think Dish should include some of the better MPEG decoding and video processing available. If these assumptions are wrong, please let me know. I'm just trying to learn more about this. Thanks!


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## mbart0656

Ken, I had another thought. Do you know much about the insides of the Dish 211? I ask because if the 211 is only going to output the datastream from the satellite and then let the Promise Module or TV internal decoders do all the processing (via the firewire), maybe some side by side observations could be made to see if there is a difference in the various decoding methods and devices. Thanks.


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## Guest

You guys are spending way too much time on this $50 thing. Either you want one or not. The thread is bare now. Get over it.


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## Ken_F

mbart,



> Do you know much about the insides of the Dish 211?


I don't know the internals of the 211, and even if I did, it would be covered under NDA. We know the 721 and 921 internals because Broadcom.com publicly announced them in a press release on their site.



> My only reasoning about this is that when DVD came out, a lot of the 8 bit Video DACs in a lot of the early players had some noticeable pixelization. Time has marched on and a lot of players use 10 and even 12 bits to reduce quanitzation errors and the pictures are better looking


If you really want to find this out, you can send an email to [email protected]; tell them you have the product brief from their site but would like detailed specifications / technical documentation on their BCM7021.


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## mbart0656

Ken_F
Thanks for the information. I went to the Broadcom site just to help bring up my knowledge on this stuff. I also ran across a site that showed the difference in multipath performance on 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation receivers. It seems that, like everything else, the technology is constantly moving.


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## --Sclaws

The Dish Depot site no longer has a link for preordering the 921...have they stopped this preorder opportunity?


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## Ken_F

Sclaws,

At around 100 preorders, I believe they've got as many as they can handle.


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## Frapp

In the name of popularity here, I think the D.D. folks have painted themselves into a corner. I used to own/operate a large Dish/DTV dealership and the equipment can cost quite a bit to stock, especially if you buy it by the "pallet" like we did. 
.
The most expensive one was the RCA DTC-100 when it came out. We use to purchase about $20,000 at a time and that was only the receiver, add to that the Elliptical Dish and associated install gear and you are talking some mucho $$$,s

Now the math, if D.D. has orders for 60 units , which I believe I read here last week ( not to mention more ) and each units wholesale cost to them is $1000.00 or more, that`s over $60,000 they would need to cough up folks, just for 921,s, not to mention other equipment that needs to be ordered.

I seriously doubt they ( or any others dealers on the net ) can handle this type of commitment :shrug:


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## BobMurdoch

He also may be waiting for the price to be set, so he doesn't have to answer all those people emailing or phoning him about the price and being forced to say "I don't know yet."

Who knows.....?

It would be interesting if someone could find out his reasoning for taking down the link.


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## John Walsh

with all the complaining we have seen on this forum I can only imagine what he has gotten at his business or by email. I don't blame him - I'd take it down too. I have called him many times for questions and he has always gone well out of his way to help me. I have purchased from him before also and of course I am on the list for the 921


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## Guest

I spoke with John regarding why he closed the preorder page. He is concerned that
he already has 90 orders (plus mine!) and wants to make sure he can fulfill the
demand with his first allocation from Dish. He wants to keep his customers happy, and I respect that. I was concerned that the release date had been pushed out. He said he thought that they would make the 322 or 522 (not HD, so those numbers may be wrong) two-room boxes first, then the 921.


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## jcrash

Um...try pinging dishdepot.com "unknown host"

And I was thinking of preordering!


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## Danbo

Pings fine for me. Because a site doesn't ping, it doesn't mean it's necessarily down. There could be route issues, or perhaps a web server down, or perhaps a DNS server didn't get an update.

Then again, I won't pre-order a 921. Too many problems with the 721 to get any confidence, whatsoever, that the 921 will be a worthwhile investment. I have a 16x9 widescreen rear projection TV, all HDTV ready. I'd love to get the 921. But I just can't, knowing the problems I've had and the lack of support from Dish. Not to mention the cluelessness of their support staff (at least half of them).


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## John Walsh

I get it no problem

http://www.dishdepot.com/Cart/index.php


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## jcrash

Ah, comes up fine for me now as well.

Danbo, I'm guessing from your pic you would be interested in WoW.


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## Danbo

Nah, I'm an EverQuest fanatic. Although I do have WarCraft as well.


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## Jacob S

How much are they charging for preorders?


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## Jason

They stopped taking preorders awhile ago because they reached their limit. Price is still TBA.


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