# "ACTIVCE" ON DIRECTV - WHEN will it get its own dedicated tuner



## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

because it is a buffer killer, is this reason why dual buffers not been implemented also ?

i say give it's own tuner (then 2 dedicated to tv also) so ythere are 3 tuners

and also give us a warning message (user selectable to come on) that if we go on active we will loose a buffer

DIRECTV .. if you are reading ... add this for the hr20 and for the r20 when they come out .. along with faster processor and more ram


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> because it is a buffer killer, is this reason why dyal buffers not been implemented also ?
> 
> i say give it's own tuner (then 2 dedicated to tv also) so ythere are 3 tuners
> 
> ...


So why is it the processor is so slow? It's faster then TiVo.


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> because it is a buffer killer, is this reason why dyal buffers not been implemented also ?
> 
> i say give it's own tuner (then 2 dedicated to tv also) so ythere are 3 tuners
> 
> ...


Other people have complained about this but I don't get it.

How is switching to active any different than just changing channels? Both dump the buffer....why is active considered a bigger deal?


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

wohlfie said:


> Other people have complained about this but I don't get it.
> 
> How is switching to active any different than just changing channels? Both dump the buffer....why is active considered a bigger deal?


because, we need full functioning dual tuners that both have life buffers AND independent tuner for "ACTIVE" content,

so we do not loose 2 shows we are recording with AND/OR 2 sports shows we are going between ..

so dual live buffers do not get lost. if we say want to chheck weather on active for a second, so when we come back, both live buffers are intacts


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Until the technology changes where you can simply run a single line to the unit, I don't see a third tuner comming in for the marginal usage of ACTIVE content.

Just don't see it.... People already complain about having to run two cables to the unit... could you imagin if you need to run a 3rd line to the box?


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

The "single line technology" discussed in February would be great to get it down to one line...


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Until the technology changes where you can simply run a single line to the unit, I don't see a third tuner comming in for the marginal usage of ACTIVE content.
> 
> Just don't see it.... People already complain about having to run two cables to the unit... could you imagin if you need to run a 3rd line to the box?


I AGREE, but wont the r20 and hr20 still have to have 3 tuners in the client box - located at tv (if not using media center) to have 1 dedicated to the active use ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes, they would need a 3rd tuner in the box.

The HR20 certainly won't have it 
As for the rumored R20... I haven't heard any detailed specs or anthing about it.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, they would need a 3rd tuner in the box.
> 
> The HR20 certainly won't have it
> As for the rumored R20... I haven't heard any detailed specs or anthing about it.


SO then then the HR20 will not have true dual live buffers :nono2: 

So we will have to get a media center to have true buffering ?

WHY can not directv understand that EVEN if they had suggestions and wishlists, that the hr20 is junk and it is even not out yet...

I want a box that can do dual live buffers and if i want to look at active button content, u want it not to erase my buffers, so looks like no hddvr for me or media center till they can give the consumer true live buffers with active on its own tuner...

ADDED ......

for the HR20/30 AND R20/30 besides other software features we need.......

we need 3 playable-recordable tuners and a seperate "active tuner" for active/interactive content


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> we need 3 playable-recordable tuners and a seperate "active tuner" for active/interactive content


So now you want 4 tuners in the system?

Again... until the technology changes, and they can implement the single line for multiple tuners... or they can find a way to push all the active content via an alternative means (maybe via broadband). you are not going to see more then two tuners in a box.

You are probably on the outer edge of the curve when it comes to the usage of two live feeds, and also wanting live active content.... I am sure there are others that would use it... but, is it enough "usage" to warrant the additional cost of that extra 1, 2, 3...... tuner in the system...

At some point you will have to decide if the feature set that DirecTV has chosen is good enough.. if not, you will need to look for a new vendor...
DirecTV (nor any carrier) can't be EVERYTHING to EVERY person.... not possible.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So now you want 4 tuners in the system?
> 
> Again... until the technology changes, and they can implement the single line for multiple tuners... or they can find a way to push all the active content via an alternative means (maybe via broadband). you are not going to see more then two tuners in a box.
> 
> ...


I understand we have to wait untill single line is available (as pdf said end of 2006 - i hope on time)

well if they want and many companies claim interactive tv is coming ... then they will need a tuner that is just for interactive content... otherwise it will never be usable

D1 AND BEYOND
R15 AND BEYOND
H20 AND BEYOND
HR20 AND BEYOND
MEDIA CENTER 1 AND BEYOND
DIRECTV PRO AND BEYOND

DISH AND CABLE IS IN SAME BOAT .. to have real active/interactive content you need 2 things

a tuner fully dedicated to it in whever tv or set top box you are using and a single line from dish / cable feed / dish feed to a splitter/etc

an extra tuner is 50 bucks at wholesale or less ................


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

But that is just $50 for one tuner...
What about the redesign to the motherboard...

Updated chip-sets to navigate the traffic of not two, but now three distinct tuner paths.

The changes to the logic to allow three tuners, because you know... people are not going to want that 3rd tuner to be exlusive to Active content. If it there, why not use it for more programming recording...

Either way... you are probably looking at multiple years before you see a 3rd tuner in any one box (media center networks not included as that is not just one box)

As pretty much all the major vendors adopted the two tuner model (TiVo in it's Series 3, Dish Network, DirecTV, and Motorola (which powers most of the Cable-Co units))


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> I understand we have to wait untill single line is available (as pdf said end of 2006 - i hope on time)
> 
> well if they want and many companies claim interactive tv is coming ... then they will need a tuner that is just for interactive content... otherwise it will never be usable
> 
> ...


Do you understand the complexity you are trying to introduce here? From a design standpoint this box would probably be in the $2000 range and would be a bear to keep everything in sync. Next I guess I just don't understand why you think it needs 3 let 4 tuners to accomplish any of this. You have 2 tuners to record both channels that you want, much of the interactive content will be delivered via Broadband, which is why all of the major player are making major investments in this area.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But that is just $50 for one tuner...
> What about the redesign to the motherboard...
> 
> Updated chip-sets to navigate the traffic of not two, but now three distinct tuner paths.
> ...


well we are going through a major change akin to that ... analog to digital_hdtv

now if vendors / suppliers / content providrs are really serious about ineractive/active tv .. they will stop trying to be cheap and cram it(data) on the same tuners and will design it the way it should be seperate tuner in a way that it will complement the primary tuner/tuners ....

this goes for all sat providers, telcos, cable, suppliers etc ....

there are some things you can not skimp on in life ....


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> Do you understand the complexity you are trying to introduce here? From a design standpoint this box would probably be in the $2000 range and would be a bear to keep everything in sync. Next I guess I just don't understand why you think it needs 3 let 4 tuners to accomplish any of this. You have 2 tuners to record both channels that you want, much of the interactive content will be delivered via Broadband, which is why all of the major player are making major investments in this area.


so then, (fingers crossed) then when wi-max with directv hopefully intoduces, THEY MAY switch active content to that and not take up a tuner in the box ?


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Heck, I'd be perfectly happy with two live buffers. Lets try and get the basics first...

If you go to active you understand that you lose the buffer on the channel you were not watching (i.e., not the channel you just left to go to the active stuff). If the other tuner is recording you lose your buffer on the channel that you were watching. A little pop up banner, if even that, to remind.

No DVR can be everything to all people. The active stuff has potential, but the single buffer (and loss of it when you do the simplest things) is more than a tad bit annoying.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> well we are going through a major change akin to that ... analog to digital_hdtv
> 
> now if vendors / suppliers / content providrs are really serious about ineractive/active tv .. they will stop trying to be cheap and cram it(data) on the same tuners and will design it the way it should be seperate tuner in a way that it will complement the primary tuner/tuners ....
> 
> ...


Analog to Digital transmistions, has nothing to do with the SD to HD, two different things... HD needs digital, but digital doesn't need HD.

As for skimping on things... why not add a simple PC to the living room, and get the full blown internet instead of relying on what can be sent to your TV...
Or better yet, go down the path of the MS Media PC (since in about 9-12 months you can have a DirecTV card in it)... Then you will get the ultimate in interactivity... and could add all the tuners that the PC could support?

It isn't about "skimping"... it is about find they proper balance between cost and features that the "average" consumer wants and is willing to pay for.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> so then, (fingers crossed) then when wi-max with directv hopefully intoduces, THEY MAY switch active content to that and not take up a tuner in the box ?


Honestly I don't know what they have planned or how they are going to implement it. I just know it's the general plan and many companies are working on IPTV implementations (no I don't know thats what they are doing).

Just seems logical to put the data down the data lines and the a/v down the a/v path.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Analog to Digital transmistions, has nothing to do with the SD to HD, two different things... HD needs digital, but digital doesn't need HD.
> 
> As for skimping on things... why not add a simple PC to the living room, and get the full blown internet instead of relying on what can be sent to your TV...
> Or better yet, go down the path of the MS Media PC (since in about 9-12 months you can have a DirecTV card in it)... Then you will get the ultimate in interactivity... and could add all the tuners that the PC could support?
> ...


i was having a major brain fart, 
IF they do wimax then active content direct gives us now should be switched to that (because satellite with its latency issues for interent/interactive stuff)
IS THIS THEIR PLAN?

I have to wait on wimax from directv , im in the sticks .. no highspeed net for me :lol:

actually analog can have hd .. japan years ago had a system based on it

i will be getting windows vista system and get directv card in it ........


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

WiMax is planned to be DirecTV's broadband offering (IIRC).
The HR20 is going to have at least an RJ45 connection to it... so it can connect to what ever broadband option you have... WiMax, Cable-Co, DSL, ect....

So it is at least an option.

HD via Analog... Sure...
But again... HD/SD and Analog/Digital are two different things.


Off Topic though:
Note: Check news.com.com
Microsoft just delayed Vista to at least January 2007 (just posted today)


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> WiMax is planned to be DirecTV's broadband offering (IIRC).
> The HR20 is going to have at least an RJ45 connection to it... so it can connect to what ever broadband option you have... WiMax, Cable-Co, DSL, ect....
> 
> So it is at least an option.
> ...


i know of the delay, read it on yahoo. retailers are mad cause they wanted it to drive holiday sales

HD via Analog... Sure...
But again... HD/SD and Analog/Digital are two different things.

was not making it up .... read this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television#Japan

Japan

Japan had pioneered HDTV for decades with an analog implementation. The old system is not compatible with the new digital standards. Japan terrestrial broadcast of HD via ISDB-T started in December 2003. It is reported that two million HD receivers have been sold in Japan already.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I knew you weren't making it up.... (didn't say you were)

HD is just a FORMAT for the image (just as SD is)
Analog / Digital is the transmision method of that format

It is just here the FCC select Digital as the transmission method.

Enough of that though for this thread, back to topic..


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## masterwolfe (Feb 7, 2006)

I just skimmed thru the thread, but I want to mention that the Comcast Cable DVR, a Motorola DCT-6412 which I had before I moved to the sticks, did have dual tuner buffering, AND only one cable going into the box. Now if you went into the On demand system (which can be compared to Active channel for this explanation) you would then lose the buffers, IIRC. Also, you could not turn off the box while it was recording, even though it would record if you had something scheduled to record and turned it off.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, they would need a 3rd tuner in the box.
> 
> The HR20 certainly won't have it
> As for the rumored R20... I haven't heard any detailed specs or anthing about it.


Won't the HR20 have 3 tuners? 2 sat and one OTA to record from like the HD tivo?


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Won't the HR20 have 3 tuners? 2 sat and one OTA to record from like the HD tivo?


IIRC, the HD TiVo only had/has two tuners, each could deal with OTA HD, SAT SD, or SAT HD.

Not to beat a dead horse  , but how about dual live buffers with the NDS/DTV DVR before we plow ahead for three or four tuners   .


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

morgantown said:


> IIRC, the HD TiVo only had/has two tuners, each could deal with OTA HD, SAT SD, or SAT HD.


Functionally it's equivalent, so it's a bit moot, but I believe it's four tuners (two ATSC, two satellite). Any combination of two of them can be used at once.

And the Series 3 will be six (two ATSC, two cablecard, two NTSC with MPEG encoders), any two of which can be used at once.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> there are some things you can not skimp on in life ....


Yes, but anything to do with television is not in that category.

Carl


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Since the original poster of this thread is no longer a member...

I am going to close the thread.


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