# Question on DSL



## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Background: Deep rural, currently on satellite ISP, about 15-16,000 cable feet from the nearest DSL node which was just recently installed.

Due to flooding, nearly every telephone junction/splice point along my road is under water. I have good dial tone and can make and receive calls. While I can carry on a conversation, there is a significant audio hum (not there when not flooded).

Even if I could get decent speeds with DSL, would I have anything at all right now? Or would DSL be useless until the water drops out of the splice points and the audio hum clears?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

SayWhat? said:


> Background: Deep rural, currently on satellite ISP, about 15-16,000 cable feet from the nearest DSL node which was just recently installed.
> 
> Due to flooding, nearly every telephone junction/splice point along my road is under water. I have good dial tone and can make and receive calls. While I can carry on a conversation, there is a significant audio hum (not there when not flooded).
> 
> Even if I could get decent speeds with DSL, would I have anything at all right now? Or would DSL be useless until the water drops out of the splice points and the audio hum clears?


Line noise can have a serious effect on DSL. It may not work at all until the water is gone. You'd likely get under 500kbps speeds on a good day.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

It has been my experiance that even if voice has no dialtone - I still have DSL service - over the same pair of copper. And yes - this happened when my telco drop was flooded (although NOT "completely underwater").

BTW - my Telco is Centurylink - was Embarq / was Sprint.

YMMV


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Slower DSL is still better than faster satellite.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

DSL's max distance from DSLAM is 18000 feet. At that distance, with LQ issues you're looking at some lousy speeds. Latencywise it'd be way better than satellite internet, though.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Obviously this is extremely abnormal to be under water for 2 - 3 weeks. I want to dump the Satellite when this contract runs out. DSL wasn't even an option until the last 6 months or so and being as far out as I am, I won't get peak performance even under normal, dry conditions. The only other possibility I have is a WISP, but I don't know if I'm within range of any of their towers. I'll need to get them out to do a site survey to verify.

Here are my problems:

Satellite: Comparatively slow, long latency, weather fades during heavy storms, and (the biggie) bandwidth quotas.

DSL: Questionable speeds and reliability due to loop length, possible extended outages due to cable flooding which happens almost annually. No BW quotas that I know of.

WISP: Also has had extended outages due to cable/fiber problems at distant nodes. No BW quotas or weather fade that I know of. 

Ideally, I'd like to go to DSL or WISP and have satellite as a backup that could be turned on or off at will for a few weeks or a month when the others have outages, but I doubt they would be willing to do that. I own the satellite equipment, so it could stay in place 'live' and ready if they would/could just turn the access on and off at the NOC.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

The funny thing is, we had major issues with line flooding on our campus and we finally would up contracting a guy whose sole job is to waterproof cable runs down at the Jersey shore. Never had an issue with spring flooding after that. Expensive proposition, though.

The WISP would be my first choice, as long as you have decent LOS.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RasputinAXP said:


> The funny thing is, we had major issues with line flooding on our campus and we finally would up contracting a guy whose sole job is to waterproof cable runs down at the Jersey shore. Never had an issue with spring flooding after that. Expensive proposition, though.
> 
> The WISP would be my first choice, as long as you have decent LOS.


Oh, for the love of God, what the devil is a WISP?...:lol:

Rich


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## HDJulie (Aug 10, 2008)

I think WISP means Wireless Internet Service Provider. My sister & brother-in-law in Utah are on one. I don't know if this is the norm, but they have what they say looks almost like a satellite dish on their roof for the service. It is a line-of-sight service -- no line-of-sight, no service . 

We were on satellite here for 4 years & recently switched to cellular. We were finally able to get 3G service at our house from both AT&T & Verizon in the last year. Verizon offers a 10GB plan for $80 (a little less than what we were paying for satellite) so we got a netbook from them & use it to share internet to the PC's, laptops, & phones. It's not overly fast -- probably between 750K & 1M down most days, but the lack of latency makes it so much easier to browse.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

I don't know if they use a dish here or not. All I've seen are panel antennas about 4" square. They may use a wire arc antenna for extended range.

They hop from tower to tower and eventually to a T3 or Fiber Node back to their NOC. As long as you're within about 5 miles of a tower with clear LOS you're good. Speeds are selectable at priced tiers like DSL.

Cellular is another option, but again, you have the bandwidth cap issues.

The WISP gives me the lowest Ping times based on what I've seen at other places.

I'm paying $50/mo for satellite and both the WISP and DSL are comparably priced. (No $19/mo DSL here like big cities).


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## GravelChan (Jan 30, 2005)

SayWhat? said:


> Obviously this is extremely abnormal to be under water for 2 - 3 weeks. I want to dump the Satellite when this contract runs out. DSL wasn't even an option until the last 6 months or so and being as far out as I am, I won't get peak performance even under normal, dry conditions. The only other possibility I have is a WISP, but I don't know if I'm within range of any of their towers. I'll need to get them out to do a site survey to verify.
> 
> Here are my problems:
> 
> ...


I have been very satisfied with DSL though we don't have any underwater conditions around here that I know of. In talking to the local techs they are getting a few people hooked up and working that are 8-9 miles from the fiber. Personally, I am about 10,000' from the fiber and it's rock solid. I know quite a few people that are 4-5 miles from the fiber and have very few problems, which the local techs are prompt to take care of. A local telephone co-op bought out US West here (thank goodness) several years ago and put in all new underground wiring/equipment. I normally get 5-6 megs download and about .5 megs upload. I'm a happy camper after being on US Wests outdated equipment with dial-up!


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## chevyguy559 (Sep 19, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Ideally, I'd like to go to DSL or WISP and have satellite as a backup that could be turned on or off at will for a few weeks or a month when the others have outages, but I doubt they would be willing to do that. I own the satellite equipment, so it could stay in place 'live' and ready if they would/could just turn the access on and off at the NOC.


I just had WildBlue turned off at my work when we switched to a Fixed Wireless BB connection, when I cancelled they told me that if I changed my mind AFTER disconnecting that I would have to go on a waiting list, as the space on the spot beams were limited in my area and once a customer disconnected they would go to the waiting list....I don't know how "full" they are in your area, but might be something to consider.....I have a dial-up "backup" but am hoping there isn't any long term outages with the new wireless company...

BTW here is the "dish/antenna" they put up for the wireless from unWired Broadband.










So far it is WAY better than WildBlue EVER was, and no useage restrictions and they own ALL the equipment so if there is every any problem, they come out and fix it on thier dime. We had to have WildBlue come out once a year for the 3 years we had them for $99 a pop to replace TRIA's, that got old and I'm so glad I found the wireless company


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HDJulie said:


> I think WISP means Wireless Internet Service Provider. My sister & brother-in-law in Utah are on one. I don't know if this is the norm, but they have what they say looks almost like a satellite dish on their roof for the service. It is a line-of-sight service -- no line-of-sight, no service .
> 
> We were on satellite here for 4 years & recently switched to cellular. We were finally able to get 3G service at our house from both AT&T & Verizon in the last year. Verizon offers a 10GB plan for $80 (a little less than what we were paying for satellite) so we got a netbook from them & use it to share internet to the PC's, laptops, & phones. It's not overly fast -- probably between 750K & 1M down most days, but the lack of latency makes it so much easier to browse.


Thanx, that's the first time I've ever heard of it.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"SayWhat?" said:


> DSL: Questionable speeds and reliability due to loop length, possible extended outages due to cable flooding which happens almost annually. No BW quotas that I know of.


Caps are fairly rare on DSL, though I believe AT&T is doing it. Frontier was considering a 5gb cap, but backed off.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

'Nother question.............

It appears that since DSL is now available (sort of) there are other companies claiming to be offering service according to some ISP locater websites. You know, those websites that show the various ISPs in your area? One is AT&T, another is Verizon, neither of which is my local TelCo which also offers service, but at a higher rate than the others.

What are they doing, acting as resellers? If so, how can they offer lower rates over the same copper?


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Well, they say according to the records that I should be able to get 3Mb speed, so they'll be setting it up in the next few days. I'll try some ping and speed tests and see what happens. They also offer a 6Mb but it doesn't look like I'll be able to get that at this distance from the node.

If I'm paying for 3Mb, how will I be able to tell if I could get a higher speed? I'm guessing I'll probably be capped at 3Mb speed by the system. Maybe I can catch the tech if I'm home and have them run a test?

Their web page of offerings and comparisons show streaming video would require their highest offering of 12Mb. Is anybody able to watch live TV or video at 3Mb? I think I'm only getting 512Kb (possibly up to 1Mb) on satellite, so I've had no chance at it so far.


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## Lucavex (Apr 26, 2011)

3Mb should be fine for SD streaming video, HD would be a stretch, and there would likely be some buffering issues. Heck, when I visited my sister in Rural New Mexico, who has WISP, she was able to stream NetFlix SD just fine, and that was considerably slower than your DSL at 3Mb.

So yeah, you should be fine. As far as you are from the node, I wouldn't expect much higher than 3Mb. You MIGHT get 6 on a good day if you upgrade the service, but I don't know if it would be worth the increased bill for it.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Well, they say according to the records that I should be able to get 3Mb speed, so they'll be setting it up in the next few days.


the service maps used by the salespeople aren't always accurate.

at my old house, i was told i could get 12Mbps; after 3 days of the phone co. tech testing and changing connections at every node within 5 miles of me, they got me 1.5Mbps.

The phone company would call at least once every six weeks saying, "great news, we now have 6Mpbs in your area".

i bit on it once, and came home to find i had no dsl service. the SNR was too low for a signal.

the original tech came back to change it, and left a note saying i should've listened to him the first time.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Tech was out, said he got a test result of 3.5Mb at the interface on the side of the house.

TestMy.net show a result of 2.8Mbs

Speedtest.net shows 3.07Mbs

Pings to Yahoo are around 60ms and to Google are around 75ms


Win 7 Media Player: CBS On-Line; tried watching a couple of clips of Big Bang Theory; played fine, no buffering. Same with Romantically Challenged, clear and clean, no buffering.

Tech also stated that their plan is to run fiber down the main road (1 1/2 miles away) and drop nodes every 2 miles or so with the goal of bringing 6Mb to every house within 2-3 years.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Seems weird to have web access during a storm, especially when Dish goes out. I'm so used to losing the web first, then Dish.


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## brant (Jul 6, 2008)

glad its working out for ya!


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