# ARggg I'm really struggling with this one



## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

I am struggling with the decision to leave Dish for Direct TV.
Now I know we have all heard a lot of people talk about this but bear with me pls.

Unlike a lot of people we have had a very good relationship with Dish Network for the last 4 years or so. We rarely, and I mean RARELY lose picture, maybe 3 x a year if that. Yes we have had some equipement issues but with the great replacement plan that Dish has it has been resolved each time happily. we get our locals, and SOMEHOW we have distant nets as well.... This is a really nice thing that I am not sure we are supposed to have and I never talk about with the csr's  I am happy with the Top 100 package that we have but of course there are a few channels from the 150 i would like but not enough to pay the increase in fees.

We currently are using a 501 and a 4900
I desperatly want the 522 because that would provide the functionality that I want...
it also provides the functionality that I believe is worth the extra 5 a month. The price point is really too high for me, even if I had the extra money and it looks like I won't be able to get it until January at the earliest. I just spoke to a CSR, told her we were seriously thinking of leaving and asked what recievers were available to us. She said only the 510 at 149 with no commitment. 

I can get a Direct Tivo with a triple LNB installed for 69 dollars and a second tivo for 99 dollars right now.

I am just not sure if I'd be making a mistake. the channels dont' completely line up and i'd lose my distant nets. I would also lose the great Dish warrant plan (at 1.99 a month for all my equipment). However the replacements recievers are only 99 (atleast for now, what happens whenthey are out of stock and I can only get more expensive ones..)

I truly don't know what to do
I don't have an issue with my service as it stands, it is just looking for additional equipment functionality. And please let us not forget the WF (wife factor), it is in full play right now  
Am I being too reedy? Am i going to take a Good situation and possibly make it worse???

Help!!! 

John


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

You can make good/bad arguments for either service. Don't forget the 522 
comes with the monthly VOD fee. Have you tried playing CSR roulette?
You might stumble onto a better deal. DirectTivo is a better product than
any DVR Dish has on the market but if you ar happy with Dish why leave?


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

Pete, that is exactly the big problem with NOT making the move. I am happy with DISH BUT..... and this is a big but. I want to have the functionality of the 522/Tivo. I am not sure I want or can pay $400 dollars for that functionality tho.
That's my dilemma.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

You might have the monthly VOD fee with the 522 but you will not have the Additional Outlet fee with it so that makes up for it.

Also I believe DirecTV has a warranty plan but it costs $5.99 per month vs. $1.99 per month that Dish charges, so thats an additional $4.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

Wouldn't it cost more in upfront charges to make the move?
(I think Jacob S answers that question above.)


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## xgrep (Aug 15, 2002)

sorahl said:


> Help!!!


You're not in a position where you absolutely have to do something right now (i.e., nothing's broken and there are no deals that are so good you can't afford to pass them up). Given how things are really in transition at Dish, you probably should try to be patient and see what happens over the next few months. After seeing what's available and reading comments from others, and having had some time to think things over, you will probably make a better long-term decision. My opinion would be to wait until at least January. By then, you will probably have a much clearer idea of what to do.

x


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

Well here is what I've found.
if i got a 510 receiver I would have a 149 dollar plus shipping outlay
and another 5 dollars a month charge which would boost my monthly bill to 58 dollars a month (58 to 60, it's hard to tell since I pay for the top 100 part of the bill yearly).
If i moved to Direct TV i would get

2 Direct Tivos, a triple LNB and installation for 169.
My monthly bill would be 49.99 plus tax a month
I would NOT have the monthly 1.99 for the warrantee and I wouldnot pay the 7.99 dtv wants. However since a new Direct Tivo is 99 bucks if my recievers last 2 years, it's all good with me.

That's how the money breaks down.

John


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

X

That may end up being what I do... I don't want to rush and regret and since a decision is NOT totally clear... it might be someone up there telling me to wait and see.

Thanks to those who have shared their thoughts so far, Please continue to do so. This is very valuable to me.. thanks all

John


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## grneal (Oct 14, 2003)

sorahl said:


> Well here is what I've found.
> if i got a 510 receiver I would have a 149 dollar plus shipping outlay
> and another 5 dollars a month charge which would boost my monthly bill to 58 dollars a month (58 to 60, it's hard to tell since I pay for the top 100 part of the bill yearly).
> If i moved to Direct TV i would get
> ...


sorahl,

can you break out the 49.99 fee that Direct TV would be charging you? I am not too familiar with Direct TV. How much is the monthly fee for TIVO? Does it cover both receivers? How much better is the TIVO service than Dish PVRs?

Thanks


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

Here is the break out of the 49.99

39.99 for Total Choice Plus with Locals
5.00 for second receiver charge
5.00 for Tivo charge (covers BOTH tivo receivers).

49.99 plus tax.

sorahl


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## markh (Mar 24, 2002)

Sorahl, I'm struggling with the same thing you are. I've been happy with DISH and I like AT150 for programming. I want to get a PVR with two tuners and the cheapest way to do that is switch to D*. A 721 would be fine except for the price of them. 

At Circuit City, after they do all their button pushing at the register, I can get an HDVR2 and another receiver for $49. Some of that money comes in rebates though. 

D* and E* are both adding locals, but it's only a couple dollars more with Total Choice Plus and E* gets $5.99 for locals. But if I switch, I lose the movie channels that come with AT150. There are advantages and disadvantages on both sides. Luckily, it's only TV, so I don't have to stay awake at night worrying about it.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

xgrep said:


> You're not in a position where you absolutely have to do something right now...wait until at least January. By then, you will probably have a much clearer idea of what to do.


I agree with "x". You have nothing to lose by waiting a few more months. I think E* will be soon launching a major marketing campaign that will include some very good deals for both new and existing Dish subs.

I may be willing to let go of one of my beloved Dishplayers at a good price.


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## marko (Jan 9, 2003)

Also, something to remember is that you can only switch once and get such a great new customer deal. Make sure you are absolutely sure you want to change, since you will be using your final chance to get great deals.


This is also another situation why I think the DVR fees really stink. The $5 fee could of tipped the scales here. If there was no fee, it can be rationalized that "I am getting another access to another tv and I don't have to pay another $5, and that will save me on the purchase price", or better yet, I can eliminate a tv and run both through the 522 and save $5 a month. THen imagine if dish had some sort of a receive trade in/buy back program. The cost of the 522 could be defrayed even more. Oh well.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

DishDepot.com 

Does trades ins for newer receivers. I have worked with Mark there and have upgraded all my receivers and got trade in value for the old ones. One big perk NO TAX on the receivers if you live outside of Florida. That will save you some money also.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

yeah, it is really that 522 price point of 399 that is killing me.

nonetheless I am going to sit and wait until january and see what happens then. Hopefully Charlie will come up with something that is attractive.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

With the 522 receiver, you would still be saving $5 a month over DirecTivo because you would not have the additional outlet fee and the 522 would be like having two DirecTivo's. At $399 that is like $200 each for two Tivo's minus the $5 you save each month on the additional outlet fee minus the $4 or $5 a month you save on the extended warranty after the first year, you would save $60 the first year and about $110 a year after that. In 4 years you would have made up for the price of the 522. 

If you see the difference in price of the 522 and two DirecTivo's then you will have made up for the difference in cost with the money that you save at a $169 pricepoint in 2 years. You also have to consider resale value of the hardware. The Dish hardware is going to have a better resale value than the DirecTivo hardware. If Dish gives customers a deal on the receivers (like they do with the 510's) then the deal would be even better.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I am there too. Tired of bugs, and irritate about the DVR fee. But we are lifetime sky angel subs, and Jen is interested in high def while we need a new primary tv, its over 10 years old.

So I am waiting and watching instead of buying.......

Patience is tough but has its virtues....


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## tivosmart (Sep 14, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> With the 522 receiver, you would still be saving $5 a month over DirecTivo because you would not have the additional outlet fee and the 522 would be like having two DirecTivo's. At $399 that is like $200 each for two Tivo's minus the $5 you save each month on the additional outlet fee minus the $4 or $5 a month you save on the extended warranty after the first year, you would save $60 the first year and about $110 a year after that. In 4 years you would have made up for the price of the 522.
> 
> If you see the difference in price of the 522 and two DirecTivo's then you will have made up for the difference in cost with the money that you save at a $169 pricepoint in 2 years. You also have to consider resale value of the hardware. The Dish hardware is going to have a better resale value than the DirecTivo hardware. If Dish gives customers a deal on the receivers (like they do with the 510's) then the deal would be even better.


I got interested in this thread since I was a Dish subscriber a while ago with the same questions and I ended up switching to Directv.

I've seen posts with details about the 522 and I'm at a loss here. Why is it equivalent to 2 DirecTivos? Each DirecTivo has 2 tuners and I believe this will be the case with the 522 too, so other than the bigger HD the 522 will have I don't see any other advantage it could have over the DirecTivo...

Also, please confirm this to me: when you say you only have a $5 fee with the 522 you're saying it WON'T HAVE ANY MIRRORING FREE, just the DVR fee?

To be explicit, if you have:

1 Dish522: fee would be $5
2 Dish522: fee would be $10
1 Dish522 + 1 Dish301: fee would be $10

The equivalent fees with Directv are:

1 Tivo: fee of $5
2 Tivos: fee of $10
1 Tivo + 1 Director: fee of $10

So, fee-wise it doesn't seem that different. The Tivo fee is per household. The Dish522 fee (I'm guessing here) is per receiver, so this makes the fee structure to be equivalent. I'm guessing when they say it doesn't have a mirroring fee associated it's just a marketing tool, since the DVR fee is per receiver thus equivalent to a mirroring fee anyway.

I hope I got all right. I don't want to confuse people more, just want to get the facts straight.

About the question about waiting until January, I think it's always a gamble. Promotions could get better, of course, but then you would stay without the Tivo for an extra 2-3 months, not sure I would do this in my case (actually I didn't do that...  ).

And just to add more doubts to it, ExpertSatellite has now sweetened their Directv deal:

New subscribers get:
1) 1 Tivo receiver + up to 4 extra Director receivers (if you wish) for $49 w/ 2-LNB or $69 w/ 3-LNB antenna.
2) 3 months of free HBO.
3) a FREE DVD PLAYER (they say it's just for the first 500, but it will last a while (but I'm guessing they will run out of free dvds well before the end of the year).

And for the extra Tivo (2nd unit) some B&M stores like CC and BB now have them with standard $99 price without any rebates. BB has it for $94 I believe. And CC was running a rebate of $50 a while back, making it net price of $50 (it's over now though).

Sorry to add more to the can of worms, I know how difficult is to switch...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

sorahl said:


> yeah, it is really that 522 price point of 399 that is killing me.


Perhaps you could look at it this way:

How many tuners do you need at once?

The 522 has approximately three times the recording capacity of a standard TiVo.

It would take some serious thought to array three DirecTiVo units together (and probably some extra hardware) along with an extra $10/month to get the same capacity.

If capacity isn't an issue (if you can watch the programming faster than it is coming in), then a single TiVo is an attractive deal. I do caution on two issues:

1. No pricing structure lasts forever
2. Not having a service plan on such equipment may be a mistake (maybe the DirecTV customers are similarly outraged at the $6 more a month they have to pay in insurance???)

Thus far, with having both East and West coast feeds, I've not missed a single event by only having one tuner. Then again, I watch a lot of OTA and DVD material and don't have to see things right away.


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## tivosmart (Sep 14, 2003)

harsh said:


> The 522 has approximately three times the recording capacity of a standard TiVo.
> It would take some serious thought to array three DirecTiVo units together (and probably some extra hardware) along with an extra $10/month to get the same capacity.


Yes, that's true if you don't increase the Tivo HD capacity (something almost impossible to do with Dish receivers).
I had a new HD installed to my Tivo receiver in 20 minutes, it's just the same as making a backup of the HD and installing a new HD in a PC.
My Tivo now has around 150 hours of recording capacity and the price I payed was around $60 bucks after rebate at CircuitCity for the new HD. If you wait a couple of weeks more you probably can get a very good HD promotion when Thanksgiving offers start to pop-up in the stores.
Just my 2 cents...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tivosmart said:


> Yes, that's true if you don't increase the Tivo HD capacity (something almost impossible to do with Dish receivers).
> I had a new HD installed to my Tivo receiver in 20 minutes, it's just the same as making a backup of the HD and installing a new HD in a PC.
> My Tivo now has around 150 hours of recording capacity and the price I payed was around $60 bucks after rebate at CircuitCity for the new HD. If you wait a couple of weeks more you probably can get a very good HD promotion when Thanksgiving offers start to pop-up in the stores.
> Just my 2 cents...


This is the standard hew and cry of the TiVo faithful. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the population isn't up to installing hard drives in their computers, much less having to do so and then remove it to the TiVo unit.

I can assure you that it takes the average TiVo user MUCH longer than 20 minutes to procure a heavily rebated hard drive and set it up for use in the TiVo. Even the people who offer instructions on how to make the revision say that it takes twice that time to do the typical installation.

Then, as should always be taken into consideration, what if something goes wrong? Just because they don't put security screws in the case doesn't mean that they will warranty a failed unit should something go wrong with an end user enhancement.

The fact is that the stock (Direc)TiVo is undeniably wimpy in the storage department and most people don't go out and buy products with the idea that they are going to have to upgrade major components right off the bat.

I would be interested in knowing if you happen to see 120GB - 160GB drives for $60 again anytime soon. The current Circuit City website price is between $150 and $200 and there is no mention of a 60-70% off rebate offer. There is an available rebate that brings the cost of the 160GB drive down to $130 but no rebates are available for the 120GB drives so they are actually two and a half times what you paid.


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## ddd831 (Aug 5, 2003)

sorahl said:


> I am happy with the Top 100 package that we have but of course there are a few channels from the 150 i would like but not enough to pay the increase in fees.


John,

I too was wanting to have several channels from the AT-150 package but couldn't justify the $9 a month cost over the AT-100 package. We had had the 150 package but downgraded to 100 because of the cost.

And this is the VERY reason I'm switching back to Directv (I was a DTV subscriber several years ago). For the same price as what you pay for AT-100 plus locals ($33.99 + $5.99), Directv's Total Choice Plus package ($39.99) has, I counted, 29 channels that AT100 does not have, including Biography, DIY, History Int'l, Fox Movie Channel, Nat. Geo, Fine Living, to name a few.

A big reason I switched to Dish way back a few years ago was that they offered a better value, I felt, for your money. That's not the case any more, at least at this level of programming.

29 channels more, a bigger selection of PPV movies and Tivo to boot made it a no-brainer for me. I, like you, have been really pretty satisfied with Dish's service unlike a lot of people. But with this big a difference in what you get programming-wise for the same money, I couldn't justify staying with Dish, no matter what improvements they have coming equipment-wise, such as the 522.

Satellite TV is about TV first of all. So many of us gearheads get lost in what is the best gear, I think we sometimes lose sight of what the gear is for!

Anyway, something else to chew on when making your decision. I hope this helps and doesn't make it harder to decide.

Dan


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