# Don't kill the messenger



## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

Mark,
I have to admit that I would not want to be in your position. You have somehow become "the voice of Dish" and that would take a lot more than I would want to give.

There is still a large group of 921 owners, that lost guide data a couple of downloads ago. In addition they have been paying a monthly fee for a subscription to locals. 215 & 216 have not helped that situation.

You were the go between that got to relay information such as the problem being identified and will be soon corrected. It now appears that people getting guide data without paying, is much more important than getting it to those that have been paying.

Now Dish has given us 216, in record time, and in the rush to stop the non local subscribers from getting something free, has created a new problem of removing channels altogether.

The temporay fix is to give the 216 victims a free local subscription. As one of those that has been paying for something I don't get, I have to ask, where is our free subscription? I would be willing to bet that if Dish dropped the fee, for those that subscribe and are missing data, they would fix that problem, also in record time.

I realize that there is a big difference between losing guide data and losing the OTA channels and I applaud Dish for doing the right thing. I also realize that there is no way Dish would be giving this "fix" if they didn't have to.

In a previous thread it was stated, that those of us that had data removed and not yet replaced, were in a minority. I fully understand the idea behind that and do not disagree, however, if every download is going to create new "emergencies" at what point can the minority be made whole? These are people that have loyally paid to get the data they are not getting.

Then here you come, trying to explain why some are losing channels and others have still another download, that does not help. Now, you will be charged with the privilige of trying to explain what is going on and have no idea as to whether it will really happen as you were told. 

Again, I don't know how you do it. 

My hats off to you,
Larry


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## bryan92 (Oct 30, 2003)

I agree. I said the other day (to myself) that I acually felt sorry for him. Thanks Mark.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Believe me Larry, and everyone else going though this, I hear and understand your frustration. I just wish that I had answers for you. I know that some people have been successful in getting some programming credit for the guide data problems, but that's usually a hit and (mostly) miss proposition. I can help some of you some of the time, but if everyone were to hit me up for credits all at once, there's no way that I could swing that. I do have some pull with some people, but not that much. 

So, I just keep plugging along, doing what I can for as many of you as I can. Some days are easier than others...


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## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Believe me Larry, and everyone else going though this, I hear and understand your frustration. I just wish that I had answers for you. I know that some people have been successful in getting some programming credit for the guide data problems, but that's usually a hit and (mostly) miss proposition. I can help some of you some of the time, but if everyone were to hit me up for credits all at once, there's no way that I could swing that. I do have some pull with some people, but not that much.
> 
> So, I just keep plugging along, doing what I can for as many of you as I can. Some days are easier than others...


Mark,
I understand that with the many 921 variables, it will be hard if not impossible to get every 921 on the same page. I am not as much disappointed the time taking to get the guide data back, as I am in the fact that Dish has no problem accepting the subscription money from people that don't yet have all their data.

I believe that if a company demands payment, in way of a sub fee, to get guide data then they d*** well better be able to provide it.

When there are those paying the demanded RANSOM for guide data and don't get all or some of it, that is not just bad business or lack of ability, but borders on theft (just disguised as a fee).

As for myself, I have reached the end of my "frustration". It is time to except the fact that MPEG 4 and different receivers will be here long before a guide data fix. I can only hope Dish does the right thing, at least for 921 owners, when the receiver replacement starts.

I do know that you wish you had answers, but that is not your responsibility any more than getting credits. That is up to Dish to step up and they have absolutely no incentive to do so. In many cases they are getting the fee whether they are able to provide all the data or not.
You give what info you can and if it doesn't pan out that is not on you, it is on the source.

Thanks,
Larry


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## craig8868 (Jul 20, 2005)

This is my first post to these boards but have been reading the posts for a few weeks now. I must be one of the lucky few that has not had any issues with my 921 except for when we had a power outage and it fried my first 921. It took me almost a week to get a replacement and had to escalate to 4 levels of managers to get something done. 

My question is regarding the upcoming upgrades to Dish concerning new technology and new receivers coming out in the Fall. What will this mean for anyone owning a 921 and will Dish upgrade us for a nominal fee?? 

thanks
Craig


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## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

craig8868 said:


> This is my first post to these boards but have been reading the posts for a few weeks now. I must be one of the lucky few that has not had any issues with my 921 except for when we had a power outage and it fried my first 921. It took me almost a week to get a replacement and had to escalate to 4 levels of managers to get something done.
> 
> My question is regarding the upcoming upgrades to Dish concerning new technology and new receivers coming out in the Fall. What will this mean for anyone owning a 921 and will Dish upgrade us for a nominal fee??
> 
> ...


Craig,
Welcome to DBSTalk.
The upcoming "new technology" is a conversion to MPEG 4. Currently both DirectTV & Dish use MPEG 2. It is my understanding that these are forms of compression and the amount of compresion determines how many channels can come off of a single satellite transponder. Thus MPEG 4 will allow more channels per satellite.

As to how that will effect the Dish customers is still a big ?. It is my understanding that none of the receivers, in service at this time, can be converted as it is a hardware not a software issue. 
Direct has already announced that they have a generous swap out plan. Dish has benn a little more secretive as to their swap out program. All we really know is that Dish plans to start with the HD customers first and that would be the 6000, 811, 942 & 921 units.

This will eventually effect all Dish customers and include all receivers.

I personally don't think there should be a nominal fee as this is to their marketing and profit advantage. I feel that Dish should have already announced their swap out plans, as Direct has done. I would not be surprised to see an upgrade fee.

Dish has currently revealed a 411 (I think) MPEG 4 receiver. I understand it to be like the 942 without the DVR functions. The idea being that it will serve as both a SD & HD unit, thus making one unit able to replace 3xx, 6000, 811, etc. I have not heard of the DVR unit, to replace the 5xx, 921, 942, yet .

So the short answer (too late for that) is we don't know since all Dish has said is it will be late this year. Of course the timing should also be taken with a grain of salt.

Larry


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## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

That all sounds good, except i believe the 411 is not a dual tuner box like the 322,522, 625, or 942 it will not be likely to replace. I wonder if they are currently testing a 412 or ?? that is a dual tuner and maybe a 982 dvr???? who knows.....


Jon


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

j5races said:


> That all sounds good, except i believe the 411 is not a dual tuner box like the 322,522, 625, or 942 it will not be likely to replace. I wonder if they are currently testing a 412 or ?? that is a dual tuner and maybe a 982 dvr???? who knows.....
> 
> Jon


The 411 is a single tuner box. I haven't seen anything about dual tuner or DVR mpeg4, but I look for something like a 4xx type naming convention with all the mpeg4 stuff.


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## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

Allen Noland said:


> The 411 is a single tuner box. I haven't seen anything about dual tuner or DVR mpeg4, but I look for something like a 4xx type naming convention with all the mpeg4 stuff.


Allen,
Will the MPEG 4 receivers be able to do MPEG 2?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yes, they'll have to be able to as not all channels will be converted to MPEG4 at once.


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## lapplegate (Jan 17, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yes, they'll have to be able to as not all channels will be converted to MPEG4 at once.


So that would make it possible to start swapping receivers prior to the actual start of MPEG 4 broadcasting?

I would think that would make for a better transition.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Sure, but the receivers aren't ready yet.


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