# I've Won my battle



## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

Good news (refer to topic MDU Problems):

The FCC has ruled that I can put my dish on the deck and that I may not pay this building's installer to wire up to his dish. I've just finished my conference with the FCC and they have agreed that I'm right.

As of Today (2/5/2005), I've ordered my building management to comply with this ruling and explain what the FCC has told me. Futhermore, I've sent the same letter to the building satelite installing company. They must comply with these rules no matter what.

Scratch one up for the little guy. Onto the superbowl.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Told you...


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Good for you!

If is just amazing how some apartment and condo managers bully their tentents into not getting satellite service. Most people don't even check further once they are told "satellite dishes are not allowed".


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## lee120 (Dec 2, 2002)

facerw said:


> Good news (refer to topic MDU Problems):
> 
> The FCC has ruled that I can put my dish on the deck and that I may not pay this building's installer to wire up to his dish. I've just finished my conference with the FCC and they have agreed that I'm right.
> 
> ...


can you post the letter?


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

Are you talking about my letter to the management company? The conversation I had with the FCC was via phone (About 30 minutes today)


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## lee120 (Dec 2, 2002)

If you can, the letter to the management company


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

Here you go. Most of it is modified to protect the identity of the management company.

[ADDRESS BLOCKED]

Pursuant to complaint dated 2/1/2005

2/4/2005

Dear Management Company:

I'm enclosing a copy of the rules of the FCC's Consumer Owned Satellite Dishes and Other Antenna's for your review. This will be important as I'm taking the following action.

[Management Company] is hereby requested and required to follow the rules governing this document. Nothing in the house rules mentions that a dish can be placed on my deck. This dish will not be hung anywhere and will be placed on a tripod which resides on my deck. This area is clearly defined as personal space which members of [Apartment blocked] do not have access to.

OTARD rules will not allow me to place a dish on a roof which is not going to happen. Furthermore, I will not pay an unreasonable expense to get plugged into the building's satellite system. This is against this rule and I do not understand why or how [Satellite Installer BLOCKED] is getting away with this. Charging $300 to get connected is an unreasonable expense. I will not be using the internal system. I will be using my own. See below:

Q: What is an unreasonable expense?
A: Any requirement to pay a fee to the local authority for a permit to be allowed to install an antenna would be unreasonable because such permits are generally prohibited. It may also be unreasonable for a local government, community association or landlord to require a viewer to incur additional costs associated with installation. Things to consider in determining the reasonableness of any costs imposed include: (1) the cost of the equipment and services, and (2) whether there are similar requirements for comparable objects, such as air conditioning units or trash receptacles.

I'm citing [Satellite Installer blocked] for problems during this time period in terms of harassment and undo emotional stress. No legal charges against [BLOCKED] will be made at this time. I ask once again that you have reviewed this contract with {BLOCKED} and suggest at the end of this contract, you terminate all services with {BLOCKED} as per my previous complaint. Please note that {BLOCKED} is not responsible for his harassment but is responsible for maintaining an environment which is not hostile to the tenants. I did not see any contract and {BLOCKED} actions could be interpreted as extortion.

Beginning February 6 my dish will be going up on my deck areas which I have access too and nobody else does. The dish will not be removed. No modifications will be made to the building and I will ask for building supervisor {NAME BLOCKED} to make sure that the necessary building codes are enforced. If {BLOCKED} hampers my installation in any way, I will respond by submitting the OTARD rules to him. {MANAGEMENT COMPANY} is responsible for the actions of {BLOCKED}. You will be contacted and you will have to respond to his issue. Under the FCC rules {BLOCKED} cannot interfere with my personal property or my ability to receive a signal.

I didn't wish to cause an issue with this but I take this in defense of my rights to do what I want to do here. I'm not violating any rules here and have complied with all guidelines set by {APARTMENT BLOCKED}. This issue is now resolved. I wish to thank {NAME BLOCKED} for his help and for interpreting the situation. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely
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Straight and to the point I say


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Nice letter. If the dish is going up february 6 why don't you give us a followup


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

As of 12:00 PM today management has responded.

I'm to immediately remove my dish from the property. If I continue to obey, the landlord has the right to remove the dish. Plus my rent will increase by $50. Finally I'm not to be living here after my lease is up.

I'm taking this to court. No doubt about it. I'm working on talking with a lawyer.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I would do everything you could in you and your lawyer's power. Make sure you get your deposit back. Better yet if you have to move make them pay your moving expenses plus pay for your time and hassle. If it was me I would tell them that plus tell them that they can save the hassle of waiting and just give me my deposit and moving expenses now since they dont know how to obey the law.


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## Cheyenne (Apr 23, 2002)

May want to review your lease closely. I recall some apartment leases will sneak in text
that basically gets the tenants to waive their rights concerning satellite dishs. I'm in a complex that allows dishs only if a rider is signed. Simply puts stipulations concerning the installation. Can't be mounted to structure, no holes drilled. I use the pole in bucket method with a flat wire under door with no problems. I've heard that why some apartment managements are so adament about no dishes is because the developer had the local
cable company wire the building at their expense, therefore the motive for "no dish" policy.
We do have the right to waive our rights, I guess?
Best of Luck....


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Are they allowed to do that seeing how the law states that he has the right to put that dish up? Isn't it against the law in itself making someone waive their rights to have a satellite dish? Maybe they contacted the FCC and made a point to them and then they sent you a letter stating what was going to happen to you as a result.


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## Cheyenne (Apr 23, 2002)

If he signed an legally binding contract stating that sat dishes are not permitted, then he is agreeing to contract terms setforth.
No one made him sign. If one does not agree to the terms of contract, do not sign and look for a more satellite friendly apartment. I really doubt the FCC knows what the agreed contract terms were.
The FCC would simply be dictating regulation (not rights). Don't get me wrong, I really do hope "facerw" has a case here. I love DBS and hate it when organizations use deceptive business practices.
Gosh, it looks like they may even have a clause in lease that allows them to fine him $50/month by not abiding to the terms until the lease terminates. Kind of what those darn HOA's do, huh?
BTW - He could choose to ignore these threats. Some management styles are designed to do just that (threat) in the belief that most will follow. A cool down period may be needed. Go ahead and watch and enjoy the SuperBowl.


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

FIrst and foremost thank you for the comments.

As for the lease, there's no stipulation against putting dishses up. House Rule #20 clearly indicates that no radio, aerial or satellite dish is to be hung on the building. Since this is on a deck and on my tripod there would be no problem. There's no other thing either in my lease or house rules.

The leases this management company uses are from the Regan era and have nothing stating that I cannot have this.

I signed NO CONTRACT with any satellite provider and I will be mentioning this in a court of law. I personally think it's a bullying technique to accept their dishes. This building is SOL when HD takes place because these dishes are not HD compatible. In 2009 this building will be crying when they cannot watch tv.

I just don't like the fact that I have to use their equipment and their service provider. Again I'm mentioning this to my attorney this week. All I wanted is to use my TIVO and my own equipment with their own system. Is that wrong, NO. I have to cancel my DirectTV boxes just to use theirs. THere's already someone who has his own dish on the deck and is he hassled, NO.

I will also bring up the fact that I find this wrong that they are not obeying the law. When I meet with my attorney I will ask the following questions:

(1) Can this apartment complex legally do what it has done?
(2) How can this situation be changed and can my building be forced to comply?
(3) Can I ask for a ruling against my apartment complex and tell them to reemburse me for the year in half of programming for my own equipment?
(4) Finally this issue with rent increase, I know it's illegal. So, what kind of damages can I seek?

If I win I will stay but I will force them to pay for pain and suffering as well as emotional damage. Right now I can use my dish today for the superbowl but no more. I have to use theirs beginning Monday. So I have to make the appropriate appointments.

This management company will pay and they will be forced to obey the law. Even if I have to ask the court to fire the entire management staff, they will pay for this.

More to come

I will be keeping you posted on the situation


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If the contract itself states that none is to be attached to the building but does not say anything about it being on a tripod, deck, pole in a bucket, etc. so I would think that you might have a case here. It all may depend on what is in that contract you signed.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

The OTARD *Federal Law* was written PRECISELY for what you are experiencing. Don't take down your deck dish or cancel your account.

Go to court immediately and get a temporary restraining order. Take pictures that clearly show it's on your "exclusively controlled area" and not permanently mounted with no damge to the building. Oh - and of course, take a copy of the OTARD with the appropriate passages highlighted.

Fight these SOBs - they are simply greedy @$$holes.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

From http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


> *Q: If my association, building management, landlord, or property owner provides a central antenna, may I install an individual antenna?*
> 
> A: Generally, the availability of a central antenna may allow the association, landlord, property owner, or other management entity to restrict the installation by individuals of antennas otherwise protected by the rule. Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that:
> the person receives the particular video programming or fixed wireless service that the person desires and could receive with an individual antenna covered under the rule (e.g., the person would be entitled to receive service from a specific provider, not simply a provider selected by the association);
> ...


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

SimpleSimon said:


> The OTARD *Federal Law* was written PRECISELY for what you are experiencing. Don't take down your deck dish or cancel your account.
> 
> Go to court immediately and get a temporary restraining order. Take pictures that clearly show it's on your "exclusively controlled area" and not permanently mounted with no damge to the building. Oh - and of course, take a copy of the OTARD with the appropriate passages highlighted.
> 
> Fight these SOBs - they are simply greedy @$$holes.


I intend to more than just that:

(1) I intend to prove that their practices of having to pay a large fee to have my own equipment to use their system is wrong according to the OTARD.

(2) If I cannot get a signal at my designated location, I will force the management company to install a dish and to hook me up at no cost to me.

(3) I will seek damages for their harassment in my unintended rent increase.

If they want not to take it to court and comply with these rules, I will say I'll drop the case but you must do the following: Pay my DirectTV for one year and then fire the manager or person who issued the threat to increase my rent.

There was some good news and bad news here though:

The good news is that the landlord agrees with me wholeheartedly but he had to obey the orders of management. He said I could put it up.

The bad news, unfortunately my dish is too big and I would have to violate the building codes to maintain it. It can get a signal but I would have to use some sort of potted plant which would have to angle it properly.

Either way I'm still going to fight this. I will win one way or the other.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

DBS dishes up to 1 meter (39 inches) in diameter are covered by the OTARD. There is also no limit to the number of dishes you can have, as long as each dish is less than 1 M and is entirely within your exclusive use area.


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## jpurkey (May 15, 2003)

facerw said:


> (3) I will seek damages for their harassment in my unintended rent increase.
> 
> If they want not to take it to court and comply with these rules, I will say I'll drop the case but you must do the following: Pay my DirectTV for one year and then fire the manager or person who issued the threat to increase my rent.


I wouldn't be greedy. If you ask for too much then the judge may see you as a trouble maker and be less likely to see your side of the story.

In another post you wrote:



facerw said:


> If I win I will stay but I will force them to pay for pain and suffering as well as emotional damage.


I just think that is asking too much. What emotional damage can you get from not being able to subscribe to DirecTV?


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

jpurkey said:


> What emotional damage can you get from not being able to subscribe to DirecTV?


I'd say the emotional damage is getting hassled and threatened with a rent increase, all for doing stuff that's perfectly legal. Another way to look at it is as compensation for all the time and energy expended just to get the management folks to obey the law.

That said, I would hate to spend even one week in an apartment managed by such hostile morons. My approach would be to show management that I could easily win in court, but that I'm willing to go away if they'll just let me out of my lease. Then I'd go find another apartment, run by intelligent managers. If they're going to (legally?) non-renew your lease, why not find a better place now?


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

carload:

That could be very difficult and messy. So I'm not going to try to get out of the lease. Besides in their view I'd have to pay the entire years rent. Right now I don't think visiting them would be a thing to do now. THey are hostile morons who would see me as a threat to them. At the end of my current lease, my wife, child and I are leaving and getting a house.

jpurkey:

OK so I got carried away. Didn't mean to since had been under stress. I think then I'd just ask for emotional damages, nothing more. I don't wish to be labeled as a "TROUBLEMAKER"


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## Evil Capserian (Jul 28, 2003)

You may have won the battle but the landlords are winning the war. Its a dog eat dog world out there.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

facerw said:


> Besides in their view I'd have to pay the entire years rent. Right now I don't think visiting them would be a thing to do now. THey are hostile morons who would see me as a threat to them.


No, that's part of getting out of the lease -- that you leave and they agree that you don't owe anything more. If they see you as a threat, a threat who could establish a legal precedent, that's all the more reason for them to want to see you gone. I mean, what part of this isn't messy already?

When negotiating, it's good to find areas of agreement, then work from there. You want to leave. They want you to leave. All that's left are the details to work out.

But hey, it's your life and your family to worry about. Do what works, whatever that happens to be.


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

Evil Capserian said:


> You may have won the battle but the landlords are winning the war. Its a dog eat dog world out there.


Too true but when the shark eats the fish, then it's something to be said.

There are time when one needs to fight and to stand up for the rights of oneself. I intend to do so.


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

carload said:


> No, that's part of getting out of the lease -- that you leave and they agree that you don't owe anything more. If they see you as a threat, a threat who could establish a legal precedent, that's all the more reason for them to want to see you gone. I mean, what part of this isn't messy already?
> 
> When negotiating, it's good to find areas of agreement, then work from there. You want to leave. They want you to leave. All that's left are the details to work out.
> 
> But hey, it's your life and your family to worry about. Do what works, whatever that happens to be.


Your point is well noted. I'll consider it. Should they wish to negotiate, I'll negotiate. If I can leave without paying more on the lease I will. Just as long they understand that I wish to leave in good faith and no more than that.

I bring that up this week and I will talk to my wife about it. If she wants to stay we stay, if we want to leave, we leave. Fair and simple.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

If you leave I would make them pay for your moving expenses. By trying to have that done though they could easily state that they could not give you your deposit back or they could say that they would be happy to pay for your moving expenses if you pay for the rest of the months on your lease in which you would lose money that route.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Cheyenne said:


> If he signed an legally binding contract stating that sat dishes are not permitted, then he is agreeing to contract terms setforth...


Ordinarily, you would be correct, however, the SHVIA overrides any lease language to the contrary. SHVIA also supersedes restrictions promulgated by local city/county ordinances and HOA rules that seek to prevent or unduly restrict the installation of a satellite dish.

I have resided in two apartment properties in the past 10 years, and fortunately, the owners/managers were aware of SHVIA and had printed dish-mounting "guidelines" that had been prepared in accordance with the restrictions provided for by SHVIA. I've had a balcony tripod-mounted dish, as well as one (actually three) currently pole-mounted dishes within the confines of my "exclusive-use" uncovered patio area.

If you doubt that federal law supercedes lease agreements in this regard, I invite you to read applicable law, a link to which can be found on the DBSTalk homepage.


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

I am always amazed how emotions get in the way of people’s good judgment. Think hard about how hard you want to fight this. I have seen legal fees for evictions fun several $100K. Although, those were much more complex than yours. Check to see if your lease has a looser pays legal fees provision or binding arbitration. I have seen judges through out binding arbitration clauses on two grounds. One, tents tend not to understand them (no meeting of the minds). Two, many leases are offered as a take it or leave it deal, non-negotiable. I don’t think a lawyer will take this case unless they think they can collect payment from a deep-pocketed landlord. There are many free services that help tenants fight landlord problems.

As Nick posted, I believe OTARD is not a waiveable right. This is similar to negligence. I don’t think you will get any pain and suffering money out of this. Pain and suffering occurs if your landlord turns off your heat in the middle of winter, not because you cannot watch TV. For lease breaking by the landlord, you can get moving expenses plus the difference in what you are paying and a replacement property, assuming you are paying bellow market rent. When the tenant breaks the lease, the landlord gets rent until the place is re-rented (not the whole year). Typically, when a lease is broken there is a quick settlement of one month’s rent, which might be what your lease states.

Personally, I have never gone after tenants for damages. The tenants with deep pockets tend to fight. The others don’t have any money to take anyway.


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

I'll check that or have someone check it for me. The lease was copyrighted in 1984 (No kidding) so I'm certain something there remains for a legal challenge. 

I just simply want the right to eiter use my dish on my deck (which I can) or not pay $300 to use my receivers on their property. Simple, I think so. If not or if there's no mutual agreement, I want to leave without paying additional on my lease. I've been in this place over two years now without trouble. Now it's getting ugly.

I just wish for these people to understand what is going on here. True OTARD is not a waveable right but what these people are doing is clearly illegal. I just want to make them understand the situtation here. I also don't wish others who come here to go through the same ordeal.

Illegal rent increases are that, ILLEGAL. There's got to be something there to help me recover something. Stress is one thing. Going with out a TV is another. Granted, getting fees for not watching TV is stupid. But causing emotional stress for illegal rent increase, that's something to challenge. 

In addition, there's NO central antenna here. Just alot of puny little dishes here. There is one person who has a dish on the deck but is he in trouble, NOOOOOOOOO. This will end soon since I've consulted with an attorney. I also have pictures proving this too.


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

I spoke to my attorney at this time regarding the dishes and here's what they suggested:

(1) Submit a complaint to the FCC in regards to my situation. They will take the necessary action.

(2) Submit my complaint to the Attorney General as well. If they take action, they will be the one's to make sure that my building complies.

As for the illegal rent increase, ignore it. However I will try to talk to them one way or the other. Let cooler heads prevail


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

facerw said:


> I spoke to my attorney at this time regarding the dishes and here's what they suggested:
> 
> (1) Submit a complaint to the FCC in regards to my situation. They will take the necessary action.
> 
> (2) Submit my complaint to the Attorney General as well. If they take action, they will be the one's to make sure that my building complies.


On Febuarary 1, 2006 my wife and I will be gone. Fortunately we're going to renting a house upstate which my father-in-law knows so we can get it at a great price. It already as a dish, an older one. The person who is going to rent it to us then said go ahead and take that one down since it's not really good. That dish was installed circa 1998 or 1999. The place was wired up and ready for complete satellite access.

I guess there are a few good places for dishes. I'm looking forward to it.

Just wanted to give everyone a heads up.

BTW: My complaint to the attorney general about my present place will go foward.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Any chance you can get that house sooner?

Even though you're in the right here, it could get nasty for you.


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

" Any chance you can get that house sooner?

Even though you're in the right here, it could get nasty for you."

Not really. For the moment, this management doesn't know I've lodged a complaint to the attorney general.

As for getting out early, I don't think that's possible.


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## ADent (Jul 7, 2002)

So is your dish up or not?

Is your existing lease in effect (with rent specified), or are you month to month?

--

I would think there is not much to sue about (but I am not an attorney and you have actually consulted with one) until they take down/steal your dish or actually charge you the extra rent. Threatening to violate your rights probably is not that big of a deal to the court.


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

No the dish isn't up. We have it in storage and for the moment we're on basic cable.

We have one year lease. Thank god we're outta here in Jan 2006.

As for the rent increase, yes it's illegal and I'm already planning to take action if it does. I've already consulted with an attorney.

As for the Attorney General, I'm just making them aware of the FCC violations. Since my building is violating Federal rules, the attorney general will be involved.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

BobaBird said:


> From http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
> 
> 
> > From http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
> ...


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## facerw (Feb 1, 2005)

WELL, got a call from the FCC today. I definately have to file a petition to use my sat receivers on the property. The FCC attorney did say though, charging $300 is not permissable and is considered extreme. I'm pondering pursuing my complaint.

I only fear that this action will result in either an evicition or some sort of retaliation. I've put in a call to the attorney general on this matter and they have asked me to forward a copy of my complaint that I'm addressing to the FCC. They may consider it.

Whatever the outcome I will say that I will not tolerate being bullied or threatened. I'll let everyone know the situation.


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