# TV Entertainment



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

The Feature "TV Entertainment" has recently been added to our features on the 622 DVR. While some would have you believe it does not use any hard drive space, in effect it really does use a small amount because it requires a partition space that could be used for personal choice recording if the Feature- TV Entertainment was not part of the 622. Personally, I don't recall ever seeing "TV Entertainment" on any wish list by subscribers or any form of it by another name. 
So, I would like to have you all post your opinion about this feature so that Dish Network can see how much people appreciate them adding it to the 622.


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## Nick456 (Jul 6, 2006)

DonLandis said:


> The Feature "TV Entertainment" has recently been added to our features on the 622 DVR. While some would have you believe it does not use any hard drive space, in effect it really does use a small amount because it requires a partition space that could be used for personal choice recording if the Feature- TV Entertainment was not part of the 622. Personally, I don't recall ever seeing "TV Entertainment" on any wish list by subscribers or any form of it by another name.
> So, I would like to have you all post your opinion about this feature so that Dish Network can see how much people appreciate them adding it to the 622.


I would assume that this new feature will not be removed at any point in the future, as the email from dish clearly stated that this was a FREE preview. So it is safe to assume that this is to be a new revenue stream, to sell you the shows you forgot to set up your DVR to record or that did not get recorded for other reasons?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> I do NOT like "TV Entertainment" and feel cheated that it uses recording space that could have been purposed for my choice recordings.


The space it uses could only be used for "My Recordings" if the hard drive were formatted differently. Having space set aside for E*'s recordings is a decision that was made with the 508 DVR ... although popular opinion may want to seize this space, it isn't a realistic option. The decision day for 'could have been' passed years ago.

That being said, there is a requested option on the way that will help - External Storage.

As long as the content is of interest I don't mind having the option. Right now there isn't enough content there to make it worth checking --- but it is a promising feature and as long as it remains free I'll check in from time to time and see what is new.


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## elgatogeorgi (Oct 6, 2004)

I like the theory behind the concept. Cable has VOD with a large "free" library of TV shows and movies. For satellite to remain competitive, they will have to answer to their offerings. If E* can make TV Entertainment robust, I think it would be a great feature.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Cable VOD offerings may be free. Does the cable company charge you for VOD service? Plus I suspect that you need a cable box for VOD. The cable company in my area charges for a Box, then if you want a remote and who wouldn't? They charge a momnthly for the remote. Then if you want a DVR you need to pay for the box and the $9.95 more per month for DVR features.

So I'm paying $8.95 per month for basic cable. Feeds My Tivo and as a backup in case Dish goes out. Approx once a year I start having problems that end up with a replacement switch being installed.

Anyway $8.95 for basic and if I want their HD w/DVR and no extra cghannels it goes up an additional $15 or $16 a month, Yup cable seems a real good deal, for the cable company that is.


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## GeeWhiz1 (Dec 6, 2005)

I responded that I do NOT care. Technically, that's not really true.

It's just that I haven't used it. There was only one thing that has been offered that I might have watched, but I missed it. So my real response is that I haven't used, but will if there is something there I care to watch.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I hope Dish Network looks at this poll. While it is a small sampling it does indicate that less than 3% of 622 users ( 1 respondant) thinks this is a compelling feature on the DVR. The rest would not complain if it just disappeared. 

I didn't put this in the poll as a choice but I have to mention it in the thread that my personal experience with the 622 has been perfect since about mid July when the MP4 stuttering began to disappear. The effort recently to add this feature to the 622, has the appearance of breaking far more functionality as reported in several threads than the benefit of the feature being added. Essentially, a little desired feature was forced upon us and it broke stuff that once worked fine. I'm sure the 622 team will get these issues resolved eventually, but really, why are they spending so much effort on something no one ever asked for and all but one in this poll cares anything about. Dish should reassign the people who have been assigned to this feature development to other work that would mean something to it's customers and that good will naturally goes far to churning new customers from the competition. 

Can "TV entertainment" a video on demand feature work? I believe it could but not the way it is now being done. Here is a feature that would be really great that no one else has done yet, except maybe some internet offerings. 
Consider that many broadcast TV network shows are shown once and if you missed them, you have to wait for them to be rerun, maybe next summer or next season if you are lucky. How about a series of satellite TV channels that list these programs all inclusive to all broadcast networks, then you could schedule these for download to this partition on your drive for later viewing. When you select the show you missed, there would be a small VOD fee like the PPV fee but not as high as that. Say $.99 per 1/2 hour show. Now Dish has a revenue stream and some of this could be paid back to the networks for making the programs available. Of course you could have DVR'd the show for free when it originally aired but maybe you forgot or didn't know about it then. Now you have a quick and easy and not so expensive way to revisit the program.

Additional revenue stream through advertising. These broadcast shows all have commercial breaks, now when a show is VOD'd by a request, that advertising could be additional revenue for the network as well. 

I'm not saying this is the only purpose for that hard drive partition. I'm only suggesting a different purpose for it that would generate revenue for Dish, the TV networks, and offer something we now don't have with TV network shows.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Don,

Basically you suggestion is how I envisioned this feature working when Charlie spoke about it in a press conference. However, what is necessary for something that is more customizable on a per receiver bases is a two way communication stream that current is not in the Sat model. If Interenet connectivity does occur with the 622 maybe something like this could happen. 

Personally I did not vote on this poll and perhaps others did not, because it is hard to get a feel for this feature since the content at this point is rather limited. I am willing to give it more time, however, if it continues to be of the flavor we are seeing now I would agree that this feature does not offer any significant value. 

Time will tell on this one, but so far it does feel skimpy.... 

Question is.. If they were to turn this feature off and VOD without re-using the space for user cosumption, would people find this acceptable? My guess is not and I believe what makes people more passionate about this feature than others is the fact that it uses space that people really want for their own use and that some people feel this is the reason why the disk does not spin down.

To me.. It is a feature at its infency and time will tell if it grows into something useful or if it becomes a Dish home to me. If it becomes the latter, It will just sit there like Dish home on my 622 in the background waiting for that once in a great while occassional use.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

> The effort recently to add this feature to the 622, has the appearance of breaking far more functionality as reported in several threads than the benefit of the feature being added.


Unfortunately that is the appearance. I don't believe it is true. Other than the bogus "corrupt hard drive" warnings (which apparently referred to E* VOD content and not the user's DVR content) any changes were coincidental with the addition of TV Entertainment.

It might be better for people's blood pressure just to accept E*'s VOD ... ignore it if needed ... it is very unlikely to go away - especially the Movies on Demand service.


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> Unfortunately that is the appearance. I don't believe it is true. Other than the bogus "corrupt hard drive" warnings (which apparently referred to E* VOD content and not the user's DVR content) any changes were coincidental with the addition of TV Entertainment.


How do you know it was a "bogus" warning?

I got the corrupt message. Afterwards, I checked all the "TV Entertainment" shows (fast forwarded) and one of them, "Friday Night Lights", was indeed really messed up. So I don't think the warning was bogus. A day or two later the entire "TV Entertainment" menu was grayed out. I never deleted any of it.

I would rather see E* devote all their resources now on fixing existing problems rather than adding things like "TV Entertainment".


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It was bogus because it was inaccurate. Those who saw it thought they were losing their "My Recordings" DVR content instead of the VOD content (that many could care less about).

BTW: You can't delete things from TV Entertainment ... you can't add things either. That's part of the complaint about the service.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

The coming and going on content is something that Dish needs to convey to user better. IF something is going to disappear in a day or two it should indicated as such to the user in My Entertainment. 

As for the disappearing shows, Definitely not specifically tied to the corrupt message.... I lose them and new ones appear ever so often and i have not seen the corrupt message on either of my boxes.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

I like the idea.... I haven't watched any of them so far, but I like the concept....

The space taken is minimal, ESPECIALLY on the 622.

It also helps reduce one of the competitive "advantages" cable has been spouting about for years...

...oh and a better way to handle the coming and going problem.... expiration dates... Clearly show on the info screen when the program will be disappearing to give the user a chance to watch it in time...


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> It was bogus because it was inaccurate. Those who saw it thought they were losing their "My Recordings" DVR content instead of the VOD content (that many could care less about). ..


You can't (truthfully) say the message was bogus/inaccurate for everyone.

I had corrupt VOD content. Later I found out that some of "My recordings" were gone too, although I did not realize it until a day or two later.

My point is that damage WAS done to at least my system. I sent E* a USB stick with my logfile for diagnosis.

Why did it happen to so many people near the same time? Unless you are an E* programmer, you can't dismiss the possibility that the arrival of "TV Entertainment" was related to the corrupt drive message that so many of us got.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

brettbolt said:


> You can't (truthfully) say the message was bogus/inaccurate for everyone.
> 
> I had corrupt VOD content. Later I found out that some of "My recordings" were gone too, although I did not realize it until a day or two later.


That's the first I've read of it ... and looking through your recent posts I'd have to say that is the first time you mentioned actually losing "My Recordings". Your initial posts were panic related - you thought you were going to lose a hundred hours of recordings but you didn't. What is the story now?


brettbolt said:


> My point is that damage WAS done to at least my system. I sent E* a USB stick with my logfile for diagnosis.


Sounds like a good idea. TV Entertainment came to my and many other user's receivers without that nasty message. I hope they figure out why you and others received the message.


brettbolt said:


> Why did it happen to so many people near the same time? Unless you are an E* programmer, you can't dismiss the possibility that the arrival of "TV Entertainment" was related to the corrupt drive message that so many of us got.


My money is on a corrupt program in VOD/TV Entertainment. If it were the receiver software itself more people should have seen the error. Could have been a combination - but that is what E* engineers are paid to do ... figure out problems. Thanks for your help.


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> That's the first I've read of it ... and looking through your recent posts I'd have to say that is the first time you mentioned actually losing "My Recordings". Your initial posts were panic related - you thought you were going to lose a hundred hours of recordings but you didn't. What is the story now?


I didn't notice it at first, but there are definitely shows that are now missing (in "My Recordings"). I don't know how or exactly when they got erased. I would speculate that with a corrupt drive, new recordings could inadvertantly overwrite existing ones.

I wish E* would forgot about VOD/TV Entertainment and fix the numerous problems.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You might want to check the history button on the "My Recordings" page. It will show a list of deleted items and why the machine deleted them. (Or at least why the machine thinks it deleted them. - Hal, don't delete my programs ...  )

The next step in, Timer History, will show recent timer events. Select a past event and you can see a slightly detailed record history (stop and start). This is actually the same as going to the "Daily Schedule" page and moving up the list into the past.


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## Scotty (Aug 10, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Don,
> To me.. It is a feature at its infancy and time will tell if it grows into something useful or if it becomes a Dish home to me.


I think this feature is more about marketing, alliances with programmers & networks, and develpment of future capabilities. It is less about satisfying customer demands and needs.

In other words it is a case of being more in the best interest of E* than the customer. Developing these kinds of relationships and linkages are positive steps for E*.

In Ron's words, "time will tell if it grows into something useful" for us.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I am sure that is part of it Scotty. Perhaps Dish views it as a Win Win or perhaps just a win. Since I am not prevy to the discussions at Dish and I am in the no Bash zone I will leave it at that. 

But in the end if we don't actualy use it then the marketability of such a feature goes down and in essence because useless to both Dish and us. Yep.. Time will tell.


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## jimborst (Jun 13, 2006)

TiVo uses a thing that is very close to "TV Entertainment" and over on the TiVo board you should have seen the complaining when it was first implemented. Usually TiVo would record the commercials off the Discovery Channel at around 3am. Sometimes it would be for shows, and sometimes for commercials. Chevy had a commercial when the new models came out. As with TV Entertainment, it could not be erased, and always showed up on the first screen as a yellow star.

And about the question, I voted "do not care" but I did watch the Lost show and the Friday Night Lights first show, but I had already seen the Lost show. It would've been nice in HD, since I can't get networks in HD but then maybe in the future...


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## karspur (Aug 16, 2006)

I think they should add another choice to the poll, one that is for "I like the idea of the feature, but waiting for more appealing content." I watched the Lost episode, but I could have seen almost the same thing during the regular time slots re-cap episode. If they add more interesting content for free, I think it is worth having.


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> You might want to check the history button on the "My Recordings" page. It will show a list of deleted items and why the machine deleted them. (Or at least why the machine thinks it deleted them. - Hal, don't delete my programs ...  )


Thanks, looks like I was wrong about having a corrupt partition for "My Recordings". I just checked history and it says that the disk was full on Oct. 4th, so it deleted about 1/3 of my oldest SD shows to make room for some HD recordings.

So the corruption was limited to the VOD/TV Entertainment partition.

In retrospect, it seems like it was a wise move for E* to isolate VOD/TV Entertainment on their own partition.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

karspur- Thanks for your comment on the poll questions. I gave that option some thought but decided against it for these reasons-

1. They don't ask what you think is "appealing content" as you put it. What they select is what THEY decide is appealing for you.
2. If this choice were an option, I think most people would have selected it, thinking that the content would eventually appeal to me, but in reality, that is not what this is about. It is about showing you what they would like you to watch whether you like it or not. They hope you will but one cannot judge a feature like this based on the appealing or not appealing content. 

It's like saying I like PPV as long as they make it competitive with what I pay for my DVD rentals. Since I pay a flat monthly rate of $25 per month for as many DVD's as I can watch, then I'd like PPV as long as I could pay $25 per month and watch as many as I like. Infortunately this is not what PPV is about and the same goes for This TV Entertainment. So, I opted not to have a poll selection based on them changing the content that we would find personally appealing. Everybody's opinion is different so the feature would be no different than the traditional select the show you want and it will record it when it's aired.

Now TIVO did have a feature that was like your suggestion. It tracked your viewing habits and offered other suggested shows to watch. If you liked action movies about war, it would suggest others like that and you could select whether to turn this feature on with auto recordings or not. This is about as close to satisfying your idea as I can think of.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Ron Barry- Do you know how Dish plans to measure the success of this feature?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> Ron Barry- Do you know how Dish plans to measure the success of this feature?


Nope... As I don't know how they would measure the success of other features that have been added or they plan to add. With VOD they could measure it by the number of rentals, but unless you have some feedback mechanism, have the ability to track user actions or do some type of customer survey it would be hard to determine a success of any feature added. Dish has not done this in the past that I am aware of and my guess is they will not do it for this feature.

However, I do feel that there is content that they could provide that would appeal to a wide audience without having to ask each user. Extra Lost material or Desperate Housewife content would be one since those shows have excellent ratings.

The ultimate implementation for "TV Entertainment" would be to to provide some means for the user to select topics they are interested in and then have that material pushed to their box either via the ethernet port on the 622 or over the dish. Ofcourse this is not in TV Entertainment now and may never be.

In either case I still think it is a wait and see what content shows up in the next 6 months. Right now it is a trickly for sure.. In 6 months if it is still a trickly and I have not seen any compelling content I personally would declare the feature not a success.


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## karspur (Aug 16, 2006)

DonLandis said:


> karspur- Thanks for your comment on the poll questions. I gave that option some thought but decided against it for these reasons-
> 
> 1. They don't ask what you think is "appealing content" as you put it. What they select is what THEY decide is appealing for you.
> 2. If this choice were an option, I think most people would have selected it, thinking that the content would eventually appeal to me, but in reality, that is not what this is about. It is about showing you what they would like you to watch whether you like it or not. They hope you will but one cannot judge a feature like this based on the appealing or not appealing content.
> ...


I understand what you're saying, I guess I will dream of something good showing up someday!


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

TV Entertainment has been grayed out on my 622 for the last few days. I was hoping they would possibly show last week's Lost again since I had missed the last minute or so (doncha love when Lost runs over and you miss the last important thing in the show?). Oh, well, I adjusted my timers so now Lost is set to record 5 minutes over every week.

Is TV Entertainment grayed out because it's empty or have they turned it off? Not that I really care because I hadn't seen anything on it I wanted to watch, just curious.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TV Entertainment is grayed out when empty. (Or at least that's the plan.)

Last night when I looked the only thing left was a Fri Night Lights recap (2 min) the Lost "Survival Guide" has been gone for a while.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

James Long said:


> TV Entertainment is grayed out when empty. (Or at least that's the plan.)
> 
> Last night when I looked the only thing left was a Fri Night Lights recap (2 min) the Lost "Survival Guide" has been gone for a while.


Thanks, James. TV Entertainment was grayed out last night for me so I guess there was nothing in it. I was just hoping that maybe they would have put last week's episode of Lost up there and that I could find out what happened the last minutes since it ran over and my timers couldn't compensate.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

You can watch previous LOST shows at:

http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing


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## Scotty (Aug 10, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> ....... However, I do feel that there is content that they could provide that would appeal to a wide audience without having to ask each user. Extra Lost material or Desperate Housewife content would be one since those shows have excellent ratings.
> 
> The ultimate implementation for "TV Entertainment" would be to to provide some means for the user to select topics they are interested in and then have that material pushed to their box either via the ethernet port on the 622 or over the dish. Ofcourse this is not in TV Entertainment now and may never be.......


Ron,

I think you have touched upon a great idea!

I really like the idea of putting the "Extra Material" on TV Entertainment. DVDs have often used this type of feature to sell (and market) new DVDs and new releases of older movies. I would enjoy " The Making of" Features, Outtakes with narration (by stars and diectors), and Documentary Features that you often see on DVDs. This type of programming does generate interest in programming and movies as opposed to merely a short Preview or Coming Attractions segment.

Ability to select topics and indicate preferences by users could easily be used to track viewer choices for marketing decisions by programmers.

Lost has such a following that a special features section (such as you might find on DVD) would be well received I believe.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I can't take credit for the idea. It actually is along Don's post and it is actually how I visualized DOD (Dish on Demand) being when I heard it describe at a press conference on the video that was provided a while back. 

Question is will it be happen or was I reading more into it than actually was said... Like I said, with this feature I am taking a wait and see approach if it develops over time or if it is turns into a dead duck.


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## odbrv (May 12, 2006)

elgatogeorgi said:


> I like the theory behind the concept. Cable has VOD with a large "free" library of TV shows and movies. For satellite to remain competitive, they will have to answer to their offerings. If E* can make TV Entertainment robust, I think it would be a great feature.


I believe this concept is more useful to customers who do not have a PVR or DVR. The cable VOD I used in the past showed programs that were stored on the cable company's server. I did not have a DVR. I used a VCR to record programs. We did watch some Showtime VOD programs. If you subscribed to that channel package, there was no cost. The E* version seems pointless. With 2 622s I have up to 400 hours of recording space. Until everything is HD and my hours drop to 60 I have ample space. Once the external hard drive option comes to be, I will also have archive space. Right now I archive to my JVC D-VHS( 4 hours digital and 18 hourd SD per tape ).


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Here's my $0.02 on the subject -

I have yet to use the service. I know it's there, but I have yet to see anything I want to watch on it. It doesn't bother me that this service uses any space on my Hard Drive. I keep my saved stuff pretty light. I usually have 25+ hours of HD space available at anytime on my 622. Since I'm not hurting for space, I don't really care about what DISH uses for what purposes.

That being said, my sincere hope is that DISH is making some money off of the networks by providing this service to them. Thereby keeping my Bill from rising. If DISH can sell this space to the networks to let them showcase their programming and keep my Bill from going up - they can use that space to their heart's content.


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