# Need help with bizarre OTA problem



## pesla5439 (Dec 1, 2004)

I just switched from Directv HD to Dish Network to get a 921 HD DVR. While with Directv, I received all of my local digitals with no problem. When the 921 was installed, I replaced my antenna with a better high def antenna. After setting up, one of my local channels with a transmission tower less than 8 miles from my home, does not come in. I've tried adding the channel manually. When I do, the signal meter will not go above 70 and the station won't lock in. All other local digital channels are coming in and the signal meter is at or near the peak. Anyone have any clue what I should do next? Could this be a problem with my 921? I can't imagine that I have to live without HD for my local NBC affilliate (Cleveland). I have tried moving the antenna in all possible directions. The signal from this station was the strongest when I was with directv. Any ideas? I called dishnetwork tech support and they had no clue.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

pesla5439 said:


> I just switched from Directv HD to Dish Network to get a 921 HD DVR. While with Directv, I received all of my local digitals with no problem. When the 921 was installed, I replaced my antenna with a better high def antenna. After setting up, one of my local channels with a transmission tower less than 8 miles from my home, does not come in. I've tried adding the channel manually. When I do, the signal meter will not go above 70 and the station won't lock in. All other local digital channels are coming in and the signal meter is at or near the peak. Anyone have any clue what I should do next? Could this be a problem with my 921? I can't imagine that I have to live without HD for my local NBC affilliate (Cleveland). I have tried moving the antenna in all possible directions. The signal from this station was the strongest when I was with directv. Any ideas? I called dishnetwork tech support and they had no clue.


Welcome to the world of 921! Did you try your new antenna with the Direct TV receiver first?  If you get up to 70 or more, but the signal drops, it may be multipath (same signal bouncing off of another object not in phase with the actual signal, thus negating it.) Is your new antenna directional or multidirectional? HD works best with directional as this helps reduce multipath. Some argue that multipath isn't a problem. Is your antenna on the roof, in the attic, or indoors? Some local stations are not providing PSIP, thus, no channel. Please answer the questions and tell us what your 921's software version and flash version are.


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## DVDDAD (Dec 21, 2002)

Try your old antenna. When you say you went with a better antenna, that usually implies that it is a higher gain antenna and when you don't need a high gain antenna (i.e. only 8 miles) the higher gain can do more harm then good when multi-path is introduced.


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## pesla5439 (Dec 1, 2004)

did a bit more research and stumbled on this thread when I searched using the call letters of the station that isn't coming in (wkyc Cleveland)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=35764&goto=newpost

The thread was closed in August. Anyone know if there is a solution here? I hate that I can't see ER in Hi Def!


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## pesla5439 (Dec 1, 2004)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=30873&highlight=wkyc

the thread I was referring to is above. Messed up the on the last post


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## pesla5439 (Dec 1, 2004)

that thread doesn't work either. You'll find the thread I'm talking about if you search under wkyc.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

pesla5439 said:


> I just switched from Directv HD to Dish Network to get a 921 HD DVR. While with Directv, I received all of my local digitals with no problem. When the 921 was installed, I replaced my antenna with a better high def antenna. After setting up, one of my local channels with a transmission tower less than 8 miles from my home, does not come in. I've tried adding the channel manually. When I do, the signal meter will not go above 70 and the station won't lock in. All other local digital channels are coming in and the signal meter is at or near the peak. Anyone have any clue what I should do next? Could this be a problem with my 921? I can't imagine that I have to live without HD for my local NBC affilliate (Cleveland). I have tried moving the antenna in all possible directions. The signal from this station was the strongest when I was with directv. Any ideas? I called dishnetwork tech support and they had no clue.


I've had the same problem with my 921 not receiving just the local NBC affilliate. I've had a technician come over and could not fix. I've even had the local station engineer over who said he couldn't receive the signal with a cheap pair of rabbit ears. I'm just waiting for the next software upgrade (L210) because I'm still not entirely convinced that it's not the 921. Hopefully, it is coming soon. It's taken a very long time.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

WKYC 3 is very difficult to receive. I have customers in Strongsville, Lakewood, Parma, and Brook Park who have a tough time with WKYC. Rumor has it that it's WKYC's fault, i.e. lower signal, or actually lower tower... Who knows exactly. I had a tough time with WKYC on a 6000 receiver, my 921, and also with a Samsung HD Receiver (DirecTV). Antenna is a big issue with WKYC. It's hit or miss. My problem is getting channel 19 (digital 10) to stay on. If I turn on the 921 channel 19 HD wont come on. I have to add the DTV channel in, save it, and tune into it from the guide and it works. If I turn off the 921 I will have a problem with 19 unless I repeat the procedure. But WKYC is tough no matter what receiver or where you are located.
Where did you get your 921 from?



pesla5439 said:


> I just switched from Directv HD to Dish Network to get a 921 HD DVR. While with Directv, I received all of my local digitals with no problem. When the 921 was installed, I replaced my antenna with a better high def antenna. After setting up, one of my local channels with a transmission tower less than 8 miles from my home, does not come in. I've tried adding the channel manually. When I do, the signal meter will not go above 70 and the station won't lock in. All other local digital channels are coming in and the signal meter is at or near the peak. Anyone have any clue what I should do next? Could this be a problem with my 921? I can't imagine that I have to live without HD for my local NBC affilliate (Cleveland). I have tried moving the antenna in all possible directions. The signal from this station was the strongest when I was with directv. Any ideas? I called dishnetwork tech support and they had no clue.


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## pesla5439 (Dec 1, 2004)

I got my 921 from Digital Satellite Solutions. It was a new promotion and it was only $200 for new dish customers. 

The problem is definitely with the 921 and not wkyc or my antenna. Hopefully the new software will fix the problem.


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## Jim_R (Feb 13, 2004)

pesla5439 said:


> I got my 921 from Digital Satellite Solutions. It was a new promotion and it was only $200 for new dish customers.


$200 :eek2:

Man, I paid $1000 less than 9 months ago. I like the receiver, but don't think I'll be investing in Dish hardware again. :nono2:


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I live 1.3 miles from WKYC's transmitter site on Broadview Rd. I get a lock most of the time, however there are times when I get the "003-02 not found" (I use the SD feed because the 921 is hooked up to a 27" Trinitron for now). 

You need a really good antenna designed to receive VHF- low band. I have seen some antennas marketed on the internet that are really UHF only with a statement that they will also work on VHF- high band. That may be fine for WOIO-DT (19.1/ch 10) but it definitly will not work for WKYC (3.1, 3.2, 3.3/ch 2). I'm using a RatShack Omnidirectional antenna on 2 lengths of mast (20' above the roof). 

BTW: Questions for Clevelanders: Have you had the following problems?

1.) Pulsing reds/ or other colors containing red and/or lime green/pink interference on WOIO_DT

2.) Been able to lock and acquire WVIZ-DT (ch 26/ 025.1)? BTW: I found out from WVIZ's website that they are temporally transmitting DT from their studio on Brookpark Rd. just west of State Rd. with only 1kw. That signal must go for at least one block 

3.) No trick Play and/or "0 minute" recordings on WJW-DT (ch 31/ 008-01)

4.) been able to lock and acquire the following stations: 
WDLI-DT (ch 39 /017-01, 017-02, 017-03, 017-04) I got this station briefly when I was playing around with a diffferent antenna. It's subchannels carry a couple of networks that Dish had to pull off it's PI service thanks to the Dominion suit (the "EE" channels JCTV & Church Channel).

WEAO-DT (ch 50/049-1)
WFMJ-DT (ch 20/021.1, 021-2) The Youngstown NBC carries the WB on subchannel 2, this signal was picked-up by a DX'er and posted a picture frame on the net.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

If you think things are bad now, wait till next spring/summer when distant stations skip. Our 2 VHF DT's will get the snot beat out of by the neighboring analog signals:
WKYC-DT has WJBK-TV (Detroit) & KDKA-TV (Pittsburgh) on either sides of their coverage area. It must be terrible getting anything OTA on ch 2 in Sandusky.

WOIO-DT has CFPL-TV London, Ontario to the north and WBNS in Columbus to the south. CFPL used to be as clear as the Cleveland stations along the shoreline every summer. Lake & Ashtabula county residents especially will not appreciate this interference. 

I used to get 2 different channel 31's from time to time (Ann Arbor & somewhere in Southwestern Ontario), so WJW-DT may be in for it as well.

The only major Cleveland station who's DT assignment is not on a channel shared by an analog station within 110 miles (i.e. subject to skip interference) is WEWS-DT on 15.
(there is a ch 28 in Columbus so WUAB may have problems for those in the southern part of the Cleveland DMA - Action News should forget giving the weather in Cardington).


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## pesla5439 (Dec 1, 2004)

Michael P said:


> I live 1.3 miles from WKYC's transmitter site on Broadview Rd. I get a lock most of the time, however there are times when I get the "003-02 not found" (I use the SD feed because the 921 is hooked up to a 27" Trinitron for now).
> 
> You need a really good antenna designed to receive VHF- low band. I have seen some antennas marketed on the internet that are really UHF only with a statement that they will also work on VHF- high band. That may be fine for WOIO-DT (19.1/ch 10) but it definitly will not work for WKYC (3.1, 3.2, 3.3/ch 2). I'm using a RatShack Omnidirectional antenna on 2 lengths of mast (20' above the roof).
> 
> ...


Michael,

I live in Ohio City and can get channel 39 and 49 with no problem. My only problem is with WKYC.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

pesla5439 said:


> Michael,
> 
> I live in Ohio City and can get channel 39 and 49 with no problem. My only problem is with WKYC.


Thanks! What about 26 (WVIZ)? My 921 sees a signal but can't stay locked long enough to "acquire".

Do you have problems with the picture on WOIO? Can you recoed WJW?


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## pesla5439 (Dec 1, 2004)

Michael P said:


> Thanks! What about 26 (WVIZ)? My 921 sees a signal but can't stay locked long enough to "acquire".
> 
> Do you have problems with the picture on WOIO? Can you recoed WJW?


My only problems (for now) is with wkyc.


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

Michael P said:


> I live 1.3 miles from WKYC's transmitter site on Broadview Rd. I get a lock most of the time, however there are times when I get the "003-02 not found" (I use the SD feed because the 921 is hooked up to a 27" Trinitron for now).
> 
> You need a really good antenna designed to receive VHF- low band. I have seen some antennas marketed on the internet that are really UHF only with a statement that they will also work on VHF- high band. That may be fine for WOIO-DT (19.1/ch 10) but it definitly will not work for WKYC (3.1, 3.2, 3.3/ch 2). I'm using a RatShack Omnidirectional antenna on 2 lengths of mast (20' above the roof).
> 
> ...


So, wait. You live right in the antennafarm, and you CAN'T get WKYC...but you get WFMJ 50 miles away in Youngstown? Well at least you get something NBC.

I'll probably have no hope at all in Akron getting Channel 3...perhaps I should aim at Youngstown for NBC then?


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

akron05 said:


> So, wait. You live right in the antennafarm, and you CAN'T get WKYC...but you get WFMJ 50 miles away in Youngstown? Well at least you get something NBC.
> 
> I'll probably have no hope at all in Akron getting Channel 3...perhaps I should aim at Youngstown for NBC then?


Not only do I have problems with channel 3, I can see the tower from my back yard!!!!

I ended up with old fashon rabbit ears extended out to the maximum length. That is the only way I can watch WKYC.

I think using ndoor antennas on a house with aluminum siding makes a difference. I have to aim my Silver Sensor out a north facing window to see WVIZ (that is truely a low power and low tower situation for 25).

WKYC's problem is that they are on ch 2 for digital. You need an antenna nearly 8' long to pick up the digital signal. Supposedly they want to move up to ch 17 once the transition period is over. Currently an analog station occupies that frequency, WDLI Canton. They will stay on 39 after the transition is over.


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

Michael P said:


> Not only do I have problems with channel 3, I can see the tower from my back yard!!!!
> 
> I ended up with old fashon rabbit ears extended out to the maximum length. That is the only way I can watch WKYC.
> 
> ...


I'll try HD with a low-VHF only antenna like offered by antennasdirect.com. If that doesn't get me WKYC I'll aim at Youngstown for NBC, since right now if I aim my Yagi east I can get almost perfect analog reception of WFMJ.

Hopefully when they move to 17, things will be better.


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

Michael P said:


> Not only do I have problems with channel 3, I can see the tower from my back yard!!!!
> 
> I ended up with old fashon rabbit ears extended out to the maximum length. That is the only way I can watch WKYC.
> 
> ...


WVIZ I don't mind not getting, I rarely watch PBS and what I do watch is usually on WEAO anyway, who has their tower only 3 miles from my house.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I get WEAO-DT better than WVIZ-DT and I'm in Parma! Even WVIZ-TV is somewhat fuzzy, but I attribute that to their transmitter location in North Royalton. It may be only 3 miles away, but it's 3 miles in the wrong direction and even when I aim an antenna to the west southwest I never got a perfect picture. I'm near the top of a hill while the North Royalton tower location is downhill. I bet the signal gets reflected off the side of the hill which causes ghosting up here.


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