# Can I do anything about my townhome HOA disallowing dishes?



## ca1996 (Sep 26, 2006)

I'm thinking of buying a townhome in the mountains (Prospectors Run in Central City, CO, on the off chance someone here knows about it). They have cable there (analog only  ), and I really don't want to give up my HDTV.

I asked whether they allow satellite dishes and got a flat NO. The saleperson said the complex owns the outside of the buildings, they don't allow anyone to mount on or drill through the outside walls. I do have a concrete slab outside back door, which I presume would be considered a patio, and thus a single use area to try and mount the dish (according to the FCC Info Sheet).

But this excerpt from the FCC Fact Sheet seems to be the killer:



> The rule does not apply to common areas, such as the roof, the hallways, the walkways or the exterior walls of a condominium or apartment building. Restrictions on antennas installed in these common areas are not covered by the Commission's rule. For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling.


So it would seem that any complex that doesn't want people to install satellite dishes simply creates a rule that says no one can drill through the walls. What a horrible loophole for HOA's to exploit! 

Is that the way everyone hear reads it as well? Has anyone run into this problem and been able to overcome it?

Thanks.


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## keepitsimple (Sep 26, 2006)

HOAs are the worst. they are mini Gubberments. They succed in most cases in court. Run from HOAs..........


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Yup, a townhome association can restrict you from drilling holes or otherwise attaching a dish to any permanent structure. But in any exclusive-use area, you can erect a tripod, a bucket-and-pole, or any other non-attached dish mount. Then you can use any dish up to a meter wide, or several if you feel like it.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

You can run cables in through windows. That always makes them happy and there is nothing they can do about it as long as you use a non-permanent mount.

See ya
Tony


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## cj9788 (May 14, 2003)

Best to avoid the trouble befoore it even begins. Like some one stated above RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN! They will hound you silly if you put a dish on your balcony or patio.


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## ca1996 (Sep 26, 2006)

I'll have a room on the south side of the building with a large window. Could I put the dish inside the house pointing through that window (double pane glass)?


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## ARKDTVfan (May 19, 2003)

Tell your HOA to piss off, that's what I would do


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The problem, in this case, with fighting a HOA... is that the poster doesn't own his home. So this is not the same argument/fight that one can win with a HOA in a single-family standalone dwelling where you are buying.

In cases where you rent or a Townhouse where you share ownership or rent... it really is hard to blame the actual owner for placing restrictions on the property... though I echo the sentiment that if this is a problem, don't move into the Townhouse and live somewhere else where you can put up the dish.


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## ca1996 (Sep 26, 2006)

when it's a condo or condo/townhome since they own the outside of the building and thus can set the rules for what goes on their property. The FCC rule on "single use" areas does give us a little leverage. Unfortunately, the FCC left a gaping loophole in the rule -- the ability to disallow any drilling of holes through 'their' walls. I suspect most HOA's that own the ouside of buildings simply tap this horrible loophole to maintain their dish bans.

The easy answer is to simply not buy the townhome, but of course there are many other considerations at play here (such as VERY limited choices in the area).

That's why I'm very interested in finding out whether pointing a dish through the glass of a window is a viable alternative. I'm guessing that isn't possible, but I really don't know. If it did work, it would be a tremendous option to have available if I couldn't convince the HOA to accomodate me (which is unlikely).

Anyone know whether a sufficient signal can be obtained through a glass window?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ca1996 said:


> Anyone know whether a sufficient signal can be obtained through a glass window?


Not easily. You may have to replace the glass with something else (leave the window up and put some more satellite friendly material in the opening). For HD you will need to pick up a generally weak satellite at 129° and have line of sight through that window to three locations 19° apart. It wouldn't be my first choice - but it does seem that you are running out of choices.


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## ca1996 (Sep 26, 2006)

James Long said:


> Not easily. You may have to replace the glass with something else (leave the window up and put some more satellite friendly material in the opening). For HD you will need to pick up a generally weak satellite at 129° and have line of sight through that window to three locations 19° apart. It wouldn't be my first choice - but it does seem that you are running out of choices.


Rats.  Thanks for the info, even though that's pretty much what I figured.

Replacing/opening the window is not an option. It's in the Colorado mountains, close to 9000' elevation. Gets a bit cold in January. 

I *think* the location would have the necessary line of sight, but if it won't work through the glass, then there's really no hope.

I did put in the question online to Dish Network support, just to see what they say.


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## ca1996 (Sep 26, 2006)

I just found this website. Looks interesting...

www . allegiantinc . com


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ca1996 said:


> I just found this website. Looks interesting...
> 
> www . allegiantinc . com


That it does. Hopefully the replacement windows fit in with what your townhome has and will keep out the cold.
(BTW: That's what I meant by placing more satellite friendly material in the opening.)

You may have a problem seeing all three satellites with one dish - and it does take up floorspace in the room. Good luck if you decide to try this!


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## ca1996 (Sep 26, 2006)

Thanks! It looks highly dependant on the angle of the window. The townhome isn't even built yet (they're in pre-construction sales), so I don't even know the exact angle yet -- just that it has a generally south-facing window. That website seems to think the angle would need to be almost perpendicular to the satellite, and there's no way to tell what it will be yet. I think I'll need to proceed just assuming there's only a slim chance it would work.

Thanks for your help!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I am concerned about the angle - as noted on their plans they want 10-20° max off of a straight sight to the satellite. For DishHD you need to hit satellites that are 19° apart in the sky. Assuming you have a straight boresight aim at 119° (the center satellite location) getting 110° (to the left looking out the window) and 129° (to the right) is already off the boresight. If that window is not straight on 119° (perhaps aimed more at 110°) getting 129° will be on the margin for their specs and 129° isn't the strongest satellite.

The actual aim for your dish will be at 188° --- just right of due south with an elevation of 42° (0° is horizon, 90° is straight up). 110° (home of the older core HD channels) is slightly higher in the sky and about due south, 129° (home of the newer channels, Voom and eventually HD sports) is lower in the sky and off to the right. Hitting these three isn't always easy outdoors.

But you have been well informed. Hopefully you can report back in a few months with an "I did it" happily saying it worked. But I would agree with the diagnosis of 'slim chance'.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

THere is a product made to bring the signal in around a door or window. I haven't used one of these in ages, but it is a flat piece of coax about 8" long. I would think you could simply bucket mount the dish on the "patio" and bring the signal through the door to the patio with the flat coax. Here's a picture of a completed, two dish, installation at a condo with similar restrictions. http://www.pbase.com/rking401/image/214564


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## DufferEA (Aug 29, 2006)

Look at this from the FCC
fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Richard King said:


> THere is a product made to bring the signal in around a door or window. I haven't used one of these in ages, but it is a flat piece of coax about 8" long...


Back when I had three dishes fired up, I used the short flat leads to run under a window at the end of three +100' RG-6 runs. No signal strength issues whatsoever running two Dish boxes, and a Voom box. I picked them up for $1 off a RS clearance rack long before I ever knew I would actually use them one day.

I also got several of the handy 12' "thin" coax (RG-6?) cables which have performed well in two specific cable hookups.


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## ca1996 (Sep 26, 2006)

DufferEA said:


> Look at this from the FCC
> fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


That's the FCC Info Sheet I've been going by. I've been emailing the builder rep/salesperson back and forth (she's been taking my questions/concerns to the HOA president). I had asked the builder if it was possible for them to build-in a pair of RG-6 coax connections on the back porch running into the unit, so I could just connect to them to get the signal inside. But they can't do that unless we get the issue of the back porch slab settled as whether it's "exclusive use" or "common area". It's just a concrete slab (maybe 6'x6') that's right off the back sliding glass door. There's no fence or other vertical border around it, but IMO it clearly fits the definition of "exclusive use". It's not a walkway, or even connected to a walkway at all.

The HOA owns it, just as they do everything else on the outside of the units, but according to the FCC rules that shouldn't matter - it should still be considered "exclusive use" by my reading. But of course they're calling it a "common area". I'm still working on a "high road" approach, even offering to comouflage it with something like this:

http://www.satellitedish.com/cover.htm

If the high road approach doesn't work, I may file a complaint on the FCC website. Or just give up on the unit. Or just buy the unit and live with the basic cable service available there. But I know if I did that it would just eat at me, so that's unlikely.:grin:


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## DufferEA (Aug 29, 2006)

I have the same situation but an attorney told me that a commond area is open to everyone, but a fenced yard is not a common area,,,,,,,, Hope that will help


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