# I have been in touch with DTV execs re HD 20,. now what?



## Demsin2008 (Mar 1, 2007)

Hi, I am new to this site and I have been a subscriber since the beginning of time.

I received two HD 20's during the very first week it was available

It has problems as everyone is aware of.

I have had are you ready TEN, that is right 10 receivers over the period of six months and they simply cannot fix them. They are totally incompetent and it is very disturbing to me. I have been in talks with executives in California and Colorado and even spoke to the CEO of the company.

I would like to hear from some of you as to what the heck you are doing to cope with the every day problems.

I have to reboot my HD 20 every single day because of freezing. Even with umpteen new downloads..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

:welcome_s to the forum,
You have had....?
Or you have been had?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Demsin2008 said:


> Hi, I am new to this site and I have been a subscriber since the beginning of time.
> 
> I received two HD 20's during the very first week it was available
> 
> ...


So you have had a conversation with Chase Carey? What did he tell you?

HR20 freezing every single day... even with the latest update.
And now having 10 of them?

There is something else wrong then...

How many HR20's do you still have connected? 1 or 2?

What is connected (and how) to those HR20s


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I've been having problems since my first install Nov. 5th.
Going in and reseting "everything" from the setup menu has helped. The latest software has helped.
I'm running "Twins" since the Feb 5th, with only one lost program [which the other twin didn't miss].
I would have thought with two I would be seeing twice the problems, but it hasn't turned out that way [so far].
The beta testing done here with D* has improved the software [which has shown to be the biggest problem].
When I can get one to work consistently for a month, I'll feel much better, & it's starting to look like it will.
Need help?


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## chicago_cws (Dec 10, 2006)

I agree with Earl. I think that given your situation, D* should be trying to help you solve the problem in a different way. Need to start swapping out other pieces one at a time to debug this. Cables, switches, the dish itself, etc..



> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
> Benjamin Franklin


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## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

My issues have slowly died away to only nagging little problems now. No reboots, lockups, missed recordings anymore. 

Glad I stuck it out. It really is a great unit now that it works correctly at it's core functions.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm sorry you're having everyday problems. I have felt that pain back in october, but many releases since, things are much better. (Tho I still had a lockup today, that I need to log.) At least no recordings were lost today.

We love to help, let us know some of the details of your setup: TV, connection type (HDMI, component, etc.), dish and switch configuration, etc. We'd be happy to try and walk the diagnosis tree with you.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I've deleted a few posts... The OP has clarrified with the admin of the forum. And that is good enough for me.

Now let's get back to help this user.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Sounds like a tech needs to start at the dish and check all of the cables and connections, plus the multiswitch if one is present. Maybe even a dish realighment. I would suspect a signal problem if that many units will not work at the location. Do you have other receivers you can use to test the signal at the connections where the HR20s are installed?

GH


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## Picketeer (Feb 27, 2007)

Groundhog45 said:


> Sounds like a tech needs to start at the disk and check all of the cables and connections, plus the multiswitch if one is present. Maybe even a dish realighment. I would suspect a signal problem if that many units will not work at the location. Do you have other receivers you can use to test the signal at the connections where the HR20s are installed?
> 
> GH


Do you mean start at the dish rather than disk?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

With that many units it has to be something else. There was a post a few days ago from someone with a similar issue with 6 units, all had trouble. Come to find out the problem was because he was plugging in the network cable and the HR20's didn't like something on his network. Simple fix, don't plug in the network cable.

Obviously there is something wrong with your setup (Dish alignment, bad LNB, bad cable(s), bad multiswitch, etc) as there is no way you'd actually have 10 bad HR20s that was the fault of the HR20. Statistics for that is just way out there.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Picketeer said:


> Do you mean start at the dish rather than disk?


Yes, sorry for the typo.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Check the Dish or Multiswitch IMO. I have a customer who has had a HR20 installed to a 3 LNB for about a month now. No problems. It was finally upgraded to a 5 LNB w/ 6x8 multiswitch yesterday and started displaying some odd signal behavior... The odd transponders on tuner 2 were 0 until I toggled back between the two then it came back in but would go out... I swapped the cables going into 1 to 2, then 2 to 1 and the behaviour stopped... I checked all the fittings to the dish and multiswitch and nothing's wrong... I'm thinking the multiswitch might be goofy and asked her to keep an eye on it... like bonscott said, ten is a lot of defective units... I've only seen 1 defective unit out of about 20 that I've installed or dealt with and 1 bad BB converter..


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## urnote96 (Jun 22, 2004)

VeniceDre said:


> Check the Dish or Multiswitch IMO. I have a customer who has had a HR20 installed to a 3 LNB for about a month now. No problems. It was finally upgraded to a 5 LNB w/ 6x8 multiswitch yesterday and started displaying some odd signal behavior... The odd transponders on tuner 2 were 0 until I toggled back between the two then it came back in but would go out... I swapped the cables going into 1 to 2, then 2 to 1 and the behaviour stopped... I checked all the fittings to the dish and multiswitch and nothing's wrong... I'm thinking the multiswitch might be goofy and asked her to keep an eye on it... like bonscott said, ten is a lot of defective units... I've only seen 1 defective unit out of about 20 that I've installed or dealt with and 1 bad BB converter..


You know, i have havd my HR20 for 2 months...no complaints no nohing....working fine for me.

Maybe its the user


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

urnote96 said:


> You know, i have havd my HR20 for 2 months...no complaints no nohing....working fine for me.
> 
> Maybe its the user


Now Now... 
It is possible that there is something else going on... and not just the person driving the "car"


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## BarneyM (Jan 18, 2007)

Demsin2008 said:


> Hi, I am new to this site and I have been a subscriber since the beginning of time.
> 
> I received two HD 20's during the very first week it was available
> 
> ...


He might want to check the power quality in his home. Hi or low voltage and spikes can cause this. Also something in the house, electric blanket or fluorescent lighting can induce interference on the power lines that can cause problems with electronic equipment.

Are you using a UPS or a quality surge suppressor for your HR20?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

We might need to wait until the OP come back here.
The "network issue" turned out to be if the cable was connected before the software was downloaded [enabling the network], there was a problem that required: 1) remove the cable, 2) re-download the software.
The "0 for 6" turned out to be "5 for 6" after the re-download, there was one bad unit.
Again, give us a chance & we'll fix it or kill it. This forum is here to help.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Now Now...
> It is possible that there is something else going on... and not just the person driving the "car"


Sounds like he's crashed the car about ten times... :eek2:

Just kidding... Yeah, could be a lot of different things, but ten boxes? Can't be the boxes... IMHO


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## 4DThinker (Dec 17, 2006)

I'd check everything from the dish to the box. Is your dish grounded? Do you have RG6 cables everywhere or old Rg59? Is the grounding block rated for outdoor use? I had one rust on me and kill the signal. Have you double checked the dish alignment? Are your cable runs less than 100ft? Have you checked the multiswitch? I had two bad ones in a row from the installer (but not with the HD upgrade install). Do you live in the country down a rough road? Could be the boxes are being abused during delivery.

I'm most suspicious of your power delivery to the boxes. Brown-outs or power surges might explain your troubles. My rack of equipment runs through both a UPS and a surge protector and has only frozen up once or twice, although it's needed more reboots than 2. Of course every DirecTV receiver I've owned has also needed occasional reboots, and that's been two Sony's, a Hughes DirecTIVO, and now both an HR20 and an H20.


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## Demsin2008 (Mar 1, 2007)

Yes, I have had conversations with Chase Carey the CEO of the company. At first he was the nicest of nice people. He had a senior executive call me from his car on a saturday morning from Los Angeles promising me help.

Here is a review:

1. They sent the Florida regional DTV guy to my home... on 6 count em six separate days along with a tech.

2. They saw the problem for themselves. And could not fix it. They got on the phone with the head tecky. I think he was in Colorado or California.

3. They reset the units I have two and forced a new download onto the machines.

4. It still had problems.

5. They replaced everything and I mean everything. The Antenna, the wiring, checked my electrical panels and spent two days at my home. Very very nice of them. But it still doesn't work

6. They replaced the two units and fed exed the actual bad units to California for a bench check.

7 Received two brand new units. They set them and the problem still exists.

8. They ordered two more units and they came in boxes that said Refurbished.
I questioned, how can you have refurbished units of an item that had been out for less than four weeks. That was back in November?

9. Again no luck.

10. They sent two more units.

11. And again two more units.

12. Can't say they weren't helpful.

13. Then they had someone named Elaine? from Colorado call me to reset the entire unit with still another download. She failed to tell me it would erase 50 hours of programming. This pissed my wife off beyond belief and me as well. My wife is ill with Parkinson's and she watches and needs the tv 24/7.

14. Still same problems.

15. Now they have not returned any of my calls or emails for over two weeks.
Nicole Martin, Carey's right hand person promised to send me back two old HR 250's to replace these units which simply do not work properly.

16. She did not send them. She is on vacation for two weeks.

17. For the past three nights every time I delete a program the machine freezes and I have to reboot.

18. It happened on both machines.

19. One of the tekies told me last night that there may be some incompatibility problem with my brand new Sony HD television. That is not true because it also happens every time on my brand new Hitachi tv.

20. I try not to delete programs until the end of the evening and when I do, it only lets me delete one program before it freezes and I have to reboot time and again to rid myself of these programs. Meanwhile my capacity is dwindling because of this gigantic pain in the ass.

I fail to believe that thousands of people are not having one problem or another with the HR 20 and yet Dtv refuses to get a new manufacturer. There own engineers have not been able to fix the damn thing for over five months.

I know they have had over 15 new downloads since November, but NONE as in ZERO work. That is why they have had 15 of them.

And so. HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP what do I do. I have tried to be very nice to the very nice people at DTV from Chase Carey on down but all I want is a clean, clear picture and a machine that works. Is that asking too much for my
$150+ a month. I also have two hr 250's and they work perfectly. 

Thanks for your help.


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## 4DThinker (Dec 17, 2006)

Just a suggestion..... You had 50 hours of programming on one. In your entire list of problems this stands out as unique. 50 hours must be nearing the units maximum capacity, and as such keeping the hard drive close to full all the time.

Every computer I've owned slows down and gets more beligerent when I've got the hard drive full or nearly full. They also are more likely to crash if I've got several programs running at the same time. The HR20 is a computer, and clearly has similar issues. It might be recording two shows, playing another, while you access the menu to delete a fourth. The hard drive may be nearly full and fragmented, making any access painfully slow to the point of "appearing to" freezing up. Hell, even I get grumpy when four people demand my attention at the same time.

Now I'll agree that the HR20, if it CAN hold 50 hours of programming, should be able to without freezing up each time you try and delete a show. But maybe thats the current problem and there is a workaround. Try one of two things: 

Get a larger eSATA drive, say one terabyte, and plug it into the HR20. This will greatly increase the unit's capacity to the point that it's only partially full each night when you're deleting programs. (Maybe DirecTV will pay for one, just to test your situation).

Alternatively, try deleting every show that's watched, right after watching it. Of course you need to start fresh, meaning a hard reformat which will piss everyone off again. DO NOT let the HR20 fill up with shows. Do not delete a show from the list while watching one and recording two. Find a time in the units life when it's not doing any recording to delete shows.

It's an easy test to make on any "brand new" HR20 you get. Record one show then delete it. If it freezes under that small task, then there is something more sinister going on here. If it only starts freezing after it's 50 hours full, you're recording something all the time, and you're deleting something while two shows are being recorded, then I'm sure it's the extreme use of the HR20 that is breaking it's back.

I suspect your 24/7 use of the HR20 is the challenge. The HR20 just may not be up to that task.

Hope that helps.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sir Demsin2008,

Might I suggest that you switch to an alternate DirecTV product or switch to another service provider. It is clear that you and your HR20 do not have a Utopian relationship.

Cheers.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I would agree with 4D.....
While there have been/are problems with the HR-20, this posting shows what looks like a very unique case. If this was Nov., I would feel this was much more common. Software updates have [slowly] improved it.
If I were to try anything to improve the performance it would be:
1) take one of the units, watch all of the shows.
2) do a "reset every thing" wiping out the disk, & the memory chips.
3) Just "for good measure" do a "reformat" from the front panel.
4) Put this one back on line & see what happens.
5) I'm able to keep my disk usage down to 50%.
6) if this shows any sign of improvement, [which really it should], then look into adding the external drive [eSATA] so you can get the capacity you need.
While you might not fell [think] you should have to "buy extra" hard drives, you have a particular need that might make it worth while.
If you can "get this to turn around" for you, it might even make sense to get another eSATA, so you can "seriously" stock up on programing & sway them as you want.
There would be no limit [well almost] to your 24/7 need/usage.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

brott said:


> Sir Demsin2008,
> Might I suggest that you switch to an alternate DirecTV product or switch to another service provider. It is clear that you and your HR20 do not have a Utopian relationship.
> Cheers.


Doug,
I would agree with you, but then if he actually wants to "work the problem(s)", and he came here, we should do what we do, & try to help him through it. D*s tried [and failed], but that doesn't mean we can't do it.
Now if this is just a vent/rant, we've done all we can by giving him a place to do it.
So: move forward, or another direction, or.................. "what"?
I like to help, but I also can't make a horse drink, so.......


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

is there a mark and delete? (can't remember and I'm not hone right now)


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

We must be able to help. HR20 is working nicely for me and others here, let's identify the differences.

I would start by unplugging unecessary stuff:

1) Ethernet,
2) Phone line,
3) HDMI (use analog),
4) OTA (particularly if it has a powered amplifier).

If the power outlet is shared with other units, I would consider moving to another one.

---

With this setup, please try to determine what cause issues. If it is just the deletion from playlist, try using Mark and Delete instead.

I suggest forgetting about issues before 0x134 version and only listing to us the issues seeing with the current version.


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

houskamp said:


> is there a mark and delete? (can't remember and I'm not hone right now)


While in the playlist, press MENU


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

houskamp said:


> is there a mark and delete? (can't remember and I'm not hone right now)


Yupper. From the Myplaylist, menu then mark&delete. Automatically expands all the groups. Then you can step thru and mark for deletion.

cheers,
Tom


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Woohoo my brain isn't totaly gone. At least that will let him emty it in one shot..


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> We might need to wait until the OP come back here.
> The "network issue" turned out to be if the cable was connected before the software was downloaded [enabling the network], there was a problem that required: 1) remove the cable, 2) re-download the software.
> The "0 for 6" turned out to be "5 for 6" after the re-download, there was one bad unit.
> Again, give us a chance & we'll fix it or kill it. This forum is here to help.


VOS that's not quite right. None of the units operated properly per the documentation. The network wasn't bad...the software was. In addition. I've now had 3 with bad tuners...and one I have to reboot every day because it loses tuner 1 for some reason (causing null recordings)

This is in addition to sound dropouts...horrible SD playback quality (when compared to the source program) and various other little fun issues. The sound dropouts occur during playback mostly..but sometimes can happen on live tv.

These units are so far from stable and consumer ready it's not funny.

I'm hoping that the tuner issue on the one I'm having problems with is corrected by software...although I fear not.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> VOS that's not quite right. None of the units operated properly per the documentation. The network wasn't bad...the software was. In addition. I've now had 3 with bad tuners...and one I have to reboot every day because it loses tuner 1 for some reason (causing null recordings)
> This is in addition to sound dropouts...horrible SD playback quality (when compared to the source program) and various other little fun issues. The sound dropouts occur during playback mostly..but sometimes can happen on live tv.
> These units are so far from stable and consumer ready it's not funny.
> I'm hoping that the tuner issue on the one I'm having problems with is corrected by software...although I fear not.


While the software has been far from perfect, just look at: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=78655
Nobody has had "0 for 6" posting here before your's. Having the network cable connected before the software download had enabled it was a "new one". There have been reports that the network cable needed to be removed to reboot the receiver. Since removing the cable did resolve the rebooting problem, From reading your "report" I thought that you had a corrupt download with the cable attached.
The current national release, 0134, has shown to be the best software version to date.
Tuners that drop off line I doubt will be solved with any software release.
There are bad units due to hardware issues, tuners failing is the most prevalent.
I've been having problems since my first HR-20 four months ago. D* have been sending out a new/refurb every month. All have show the same defect, pointing to what is bad software, though many haven't had any problem with the same software making it hard to really determine what the true cause is.
I've been testing two units [one brand new & the other a new but defective one] since Feb 5th. Since then, I've had one missed recording [on the new one], a lockup or two with beta software testing, and now with the new national release none. With my "track record" having two units setup as "twins" should have given me twice the troubles, but it hasn't turned out that way. I'm using every "feature" but the networking. Every day I go check to see if there is a recording that didn't work & it's been over two weeks without a "bug".
This is leading me to believe the software is maturing & cleaning out the receiver [reset everything and if needed also reformatting the drive] should solve the problems NOT related to bad hardware, which would require replacement. FWIW
I'm always interested in users problems as I like to fix tough problems.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

anybody got a spare thats 'known good' that they can trade him?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> anybody got a spare thats 'known good' that they can trade him?


He could have one of my "twins" if he wasn't on the other coast. Hell, I would like one of his to "play with", since these seem to be only good for recording TV now. Kind of boring now.


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## Igor (Jan 3, 2005)

Ken S said:


> VOS that's not quite right. None of the units operated properly per the documentation. The network wasn't bad...the software was. In addition. I've now had 3 with bad tuners...and one I have to reboot every day because it loses tuner 1 for some reason (causing null recordings)
> 
> This is in addition to sound dropouts...horrible SD playback quality (when compared to the source program) and various other little fun issues. The sound dropouts occur during playback mostly..but sometimes can happen on live tv.
> 
> ...


Users have reported network issues. DIRECTV made it clear that network features are in Beta phase. Most of the issues in my network are gone by now (except may be for my xbox which is now disconnected from the network). If you are having issues, disconnecting the network is reasonable.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

For some reason I have a feeling this thread is a HOAX .. 
I am having a hard time beleiving that this problem is happening on to different 
TVs at the same time. The only way this can happen is if there is a power spike!!!!
:nono2:


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## lguvenoz (Aug 23, 2006)

This all seems rather bizarre.

While I agree the HR20 has had plenty of issues to complain about, I can not fathom how this scenario is occurring without there being some source of outside interference.

I am not prepared to say the OP is making this whole thing up. It's very possible that he has seen this type of problem. I just would not be blaming D* or the HR20 for this type of scenario. As someone who has been seeking the cure to my own HR20 blues I can definitely state that I have never once heard of anyone having an experience even remotely similar to this one.

As for me, I've had two units in the six+ months I've had an HR20, but with the latest software have had a reasonable good experience (as in my wife not complaining about my "nice DVR" that we have).


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I doubt it's a hoax...I was told by a rep at the place I purchased that my 7 units to get 3 (now 2) working was not the worst they had dealt with by a long shot. A lot of people try once or twice with units and then just give up as well.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

Ken S said:


> I doubt it's a hoax...I was told by a rep at the place I purchased that my 7 units to get 3 (now 2) working was not the worst they had dealt with by a long shot. A lot of people try once or twice with units and then just give up as well.


Maybe they need an exorcism; There sure is alot hell going on there!!!


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

The only reason I haven't repeatedly replaced my defective HR20 is that I live with the problems (the worst being horrible audio droputs which seem entirely software related, as they improve or worsen with each software update).

This is one of the few products I've purchased where I've been willing to wait a bit, to see if it improves. If my HR20 were a toaster that didn't brown bread, I'd have taken it back for a replacement. If it were a toaster that came with a 2-year contract, I'd have taken each defect back over and over again, replacing it with the same toaster, hoping for one that actually browns bread.

The apologists on this forum love to tinker with toasters. They say, hey, perhaps your bread is stale or wet. Maybe the customer is the problem and shouldn't eat bread. They put up with unevenly browned toast, for god knows what reason, but that is their choice.

Suffice to say, I believe the OP. With all the bugs that have been reported and persist with the HR20, it's incredible to me that you would even question the credibility of the OP. It's entirely feasible that he's the unluckiest person on the planet with HR20s, the reverse of a lottery winner who stands out among the millions who play. Because the HR20 is a failed product for some undetermined number of leasees, I'd say it definitely is possible for someone to get a string of crappy HR20s, especially if the software itself is at fault. No one on this forum has ever, nor will they likely ever, be able to explain why some leasees report few problems while others report many.

Some discuss whether he's lying, others offer good suggestions to check his setup (wires, grounding, etc) as it may be at fault, but some of you just can't seem to grasp that perhaps the HR20 is truly the problem. Truly amazing.

Let's look at it another way. If I were building a robotic explorer to land on Mars and beam back pictures while it moves around, I'd build a device that can handle a multitude of environmental factors. If I didn't, it would be prone to immediate failure. I need to design it to be impervious to the conditions it has to operate under.

Are we really suppose to believe that, with all the reported software glitches the HR20 has exhibited and continues to exhibit (for an undetermined number of leasees), that D* built a box so delicate, so tender that it just can't seem to be pulled out of the box, and be plugged in and work correctly, unless everything is in hyper-perfect order (clean power, room isn't too hot, coax is new, etc etc)?

If D* can't build a device that can function effectively and consistently under a number of variables, then it should hang it's head in shame.

Every single VCR I've owned has performed better than my HR20, right out of the box. With all the audio dropouts of the HR20, if I had a new VCR that did that, I'd return it. If I had a string of them, I'd call it a defective product worthy of a recall. I'm sure some of you now will post that, well, you owned a VCR that wasn't good and your HR20 works great. Let me post a 'heavy sigh' to those replies in advance. They doesn't address the possibility that the OP is correctly miffed at a company that took his money, and made him agree to a 2-year contract before he was able to see if the device worked.

To the OP, I would suggest the following: You may never find an HR20 that works. It's entirely hit and miss. You've suffered enough. Contact D*'s customer service line. Be polite. Ask for a refund of whatever initial fee you paid for your HR20s, ask to be let out of your 2-year contract without an early-departure penalty, and ask for a partial refund of your monthly programming fees and monthly lease fees (for each month you've experienced flawed service). You will likely need to be transferred up the line of customer service reps. It will take time. Be patient, be kind. But, do not take 'no' for an answer.

Please report back on how this is resolved.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

I wonder if all of the hardware has been replaced (multiple times) then the real issue may just be the data stream that the HR20 is receiving in each market. 

Maybe the OTA and MPEG4 local data stream has some funky bits that are different from DMA-to-DMA that's cause the HR20 to burb.


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

To the OP:
Have you had an electrician check the power outlets near all parts of your system? Looking for reversed hot / neutral or any other power anomolies. If your multiswitch is powered, check the outlets there as well. 

Also, is your dish grounded? If so, how?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

brittonx said:


> To the OP:
> Have you had an electrician check the power outlets near all parts of your system? Looking for reversed hot / neutral or any other power anomolies. If your multiswitch is powered, check the outlets there as well.
> 
> Also, is your dish grounded? If so, how?


I agree, if everything else has been checked then this problem has got to be electrical.


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## BobV (Dec 15, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> I agree, if everything else has been checked then this problem has got to be electrical.


Here is what he said in post #20;;

*"19. One of the tekies told me last night that there may be some incompatibility problem with my brand new Sony HD television. That is not true because it also happens every time on my brand new Hitachi tv.
"*

A: For it to happen on both TVs; It's got to be a voltage problem in the whole house!!

B: BS

C: None of the above!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

BobV said:


> Here is what he said in post #20;;
> 
> *"19. One of the tekies told me last night that there may be some incompatibility problem with my brand new Sony HD television. That is not true because it also happens every time on my brand new Hitachi tv.
> "*
> ...


That point leads me to believe an HDMI issue. Try component, it has worked wonders for others. Heck, even try S-Video for a while and see what happens.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I send a PM & have gotten a reply, so we'll see what happens "off line".
He's upset for good reason, & thinks the "top dog" should have been able to help.
Guess what.... 
I'm working with him to see what a "lowly tech" can do.
Not to pee on any engineers [here] but sometimes they're too smart, [like "oh" the batteries for the remote, Duh].
I may have no better luck, but I always like a challenge.


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## jlancaster (Feb 10, 2006)

vos your the best!! always here always willing to help!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jlancaster said:


> vos your the best!! always here always willing to help!


I don't know that I can go that far, but I do want to help....


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

Demsin2008 said:


> Hi, I am new to this site and I have been a subscriber since the beginning of time.
> 
> I received two HD 20's during the very first week it was available
> 
> ...


I've burned through 4 receivers and am on numbers 6 and 7 myself. I had a lot of the same problems you did early on. Still have some problems, but nowhere near this extent.

What cured most of my problems were (1) power conditioners (2) switching from 1080i to 720p and keeping Native off and (3) and on my RPTV I switched from HDMI to Component, but kept HDMI on my LCD TV. These changes seemed to make a big difference in stability.

I also had problems with the HR20 freezing up if I deleted programs while they were playing (using Info then selecting delete while it was playing). So I don't delete while playing now. I exit, then go into my Playlist and delete with (- -).

I also RBR them every couple of days because from what I read here it looked like there was a lot of memory leaks in the software because everyone's units got progressively worst as time passed with each release. I continue to do that more as a preventative measure.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I send a PM & have gotten a reply, so we'll see what happens "off line".
> He's upset for good reason, & thinks the "top dog" should have been able to help.
> Guess what....
> I'm working with him to see what a "lowly tech" can do.
> ...


Kudos to you! Thank you for doing this.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

ChrisMinCT said:


> I've burned through 4 receivers and am on numbers 6 and 7 myself. I had a lot of the same problems you did early on. Still have some problems, but nowhere near this extent.
> 
> What cured most of my problems were (1) power conditioners (2) switching from 1080i to 720p and keeping Native off and (3) and on my RPTV I switched from HDMI to Component, but kept HDMI on my LCD TV. These changes seemed to make a big difference in stability.
> 
> ...


All good things. I have seen a big improvement with the latest software. FWIW I haven't "RBR'd" for some time.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

dhaakenson said:


> The apologists on this forum love to tinker with toasters. They say, hey, perhaps your bread is stale or wet. Maybe the customer is the problem and shouldn't eat bread. They put up with unevenly browned toast, for god knows what reason, but that is their choice.


You forgot about the fact that some must toast too much bread.


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## jabbertrack (Feb 2, 2007)

OP has a lot more patience than I could muster... kudos to you!

I only had 4 broken HR20's, but they were within 3 weeks of first getting service. I talked to over a dozen people but the last person I talked to was reasonable enough to refund me $250 for the lease fee (good for them because Visa was going to dispute it anyway) and waive the what would have been $257 early cancellation fee.

The big thing was I finally got someone on the inside to admit to me that DirecTV knows they rushed the product out and that it's way more than just a small vocal minority. I told them that if they handled me amicably that I would be back when the hardware is figured out.

For now I am not paying for TV at all. After this last month I can't stomach it.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> You forgot about the fact that some must toast too much bread.


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## Knon2000 (Nov 20, 2006)

For you people that comment on that it may be an issue with lack of hard drive space, I checked our receivers. 2 of the 3 are sitting at 3% available, and the 3rd is a 4%. The kids like watching cartoons, and don't delete them when done, and I watch Prime-Time via time-shift, and don't bother to delete since I rarely watch thru the padding at the end of the programs. Haven't had any problems at my house for awhile that I am aware of, other than the audio dropouts (hardly exclusive to the HR20's btw), and those seem to be on OTA only.
Anyway, I can attest to the fact that using the available Hard-Drive space doesn't appear to slow the unit down, or cause it to have any issues that are a direct result of lack of space.
The "10" receivers may be overstated, but I doubt he is pulling a hoax. There are refurbished receivers out there, so it stands to reason that there are defective ones available as well. The thing that I would like to see the OP respond to is the electricity question. I have commented in the past that my receivers are all behind UPS's and that I would recommend that to anyone the has a DVR, since even a slight power blip will cause a reboot, and we all know how much fun it is to look at the start-up screen while wanting to watch a program.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Knon2000 said:


> For you people that comment on that it may be an issue with lack of hard drive space, I checked our recievers. 2 of the 3 are sitting at 3% available, and the 3rd is a 4%. The kids like watching cartoons, and don't delete them when done, and I watch PrimeTime via timeshift, and don't bother to delete since I rarely watch thru the padding at the end of the programs. Haven't had any problems at my house for awhile that I am aware of, other than the audio dropouts (hardly exclusive to the HR20's btw), and those seem to be on OTA only.
> Anyway, I can attest to the fact that using the available HardDrive space doesn't appear to slow the unit down, or cause it to have any issues that are a direct result of lack of space. The "10" recievers may be overstated, but I doubt he is pulling a hoax. There are refurbished recievers out there, so it stands to reason that there are defective ones available as well. The thing that I would like to see the OP respond to is the electrisity question. I have commented in the past that my recievers are all behind UPS's and that I would recommend that to anyone the has a DVR, since even a slight power blip will cause a reboot, and we all know how much fun it is to look at the start-up screen while wantin to watch a program.


Two things:
1) thanks for your hard drive usage, as I haven't let mine get that full.
2) While AC power can be a problem, I set up "twins" for testing [one with UPS & the other without] & the first one to have a "glitch" was the one on the UPS, while the non UPS didn't.
This is what makes "debugging" problems with the HR-20 so much "fun".


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## Knon2000 (Nov 20, 2006)

BTW, I don't know if the OP has tried this yet. If he was a good customer with DTV, I am CERTAIN that they would CREDIT him for the purchase an HR10 or 2, and then apply that to his account, to replace his non-functional HR20's. I have seen this option work for other users on this site. Sorry, cannot provide a link, but abit of searching would find them, I am sure. HR10's can be found on Ebay for 250 to 300, pretty much putting them in the same range as the receivers that are giving him the nightmare problems. Best of both worlds, HD on his new TV's with Time-Shift available to watch it with. Might I suggest that he give this a try before ditching DTV service? 
BTW, I know that you made it clear that you have considerable contacts with the DNC, but I find it highly unlikely that this would be an issue that they would want to tackle right now. Spend you money and time on helping your wife enjoy her time with you, while you have it. Life is too short to be worried about things like this.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Knon2000 said:


> BTW, I don't know if the OP has tried this yet. If he was a good customer with DTV, I am CERTAIN that they would CREDIT him for the purchase an HR10 or 2, and then apply that to his account, to replace his non-functional HR20's. I have seen this option work for other users on this site. Sorry, cannot provide a link, but abit of searching would find them, I am sure. HR10's can be found on Ebay for 250 to 300, pretty much putting them in the same range as the receivers that are giving him the nightmare problems. Best of both worlds, HD on his new TV's with Time-Shift available to watch it with. Might I suggest that he give this a try before ditching DTV service?
> BTW, I know that you made it clear that you have considerable contacts with the DNC, but I find it highly unlikely that this would be an issue that they would want to tackle right now. Spend you money and time on helping your wife enjoy her time with you, while you have it. Life is too short to be worried about things like this.


I don't want to speak for the OP, but to say that he & I are in contact & are working the problem(s) "off line" now.
He has been quite frustrated, which I can understand from when I first came to D* & HDTV. Some of us have been through something very much like the HR-20, but long before [i knew] there was something called a DVR. New technology can be a real PITA, even [or especially] if you are very "tech savvy".
I'm not ready to give up on the HR-20 [yet] & truly enjoy a challenge.

*So for all that are here:* The OP is "working the problem" with some help, & this thread can quite down for now.
I'll post the finding, calls for help, etc.
*Thanks for all of the replies.*


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> *So for all that are here:* The OP is "working the problem" with some help, & this thread can quite down for now.
> I'll post the finding, calls for help, etc.
> *Thanks for all of the replies.*


I have subscribed to this thread and look forward to what is found!

Spanky


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> You forgot about the fact that some must toast too much bread.


I like toast.









Unfortunately, I've got a crappy toaster!


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

dhaakenson said:


> The only reason I haven't repeatedly replaced my defective HR20 is that I live with the problems (the worst being horrible audio droputs which seem entirely software related, as they improve or worsen with each software update).
> 
> This is one of the few products I've purchased where I've been willing to wait a bit, to see if it improves. If my HR20 were a toaster that didn't brown bread, I'd have taken it back for a replacement. If it were a toaster that came with a 2-year contract, I'd have taken each defect back over and over again, replacing it with the same toaster, hoping for one that actually browns bread.
> 
> ...


_Excellent_ post!



ChrisMinCT said:


> I also RBR them every couple of days because from what I read here it looked like there was a lot of memory leaks in the software because everyone's units got progressively worst as time passed with each release. I continue to do that more as a preventative measure.


Wow, ridiculous to have to take preventative measures, but has it worked?


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## jorhett (Nov 14, 2006)

4DThinker said:


> Just a suggestion..... You had 50 hours of programming on one. In your entire list of problems this stands out as unique. 50 hours must be nearing the units maximum capacity, and as such keeping the hard drive close to full all the time.


Eh? I've got a bit more than 50 hours of just Daily Show and Colbert Report on my HR20... plus 12 hours of motorcyle racing, and the vast majority of the Winter X games. Plus a wide variety of sci-fi shows.

Yeah, it's about 170 hours right now.

So exactly what HR20 are you talking about? Mine says 29% available...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I believe 4DThinker is refering to the approximate capacity for MPEG-4 HD recordings... which is about ~50 hours


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## 3ruce3 (Feb 22, 2007)

I have been experiencing the audio drop outs since the install of my new HR20. Is there a solution? The drop outs are on my HR20 plus the HR10-250.

And one more request: does anyone have a suggestion for how to connect a non-HD TV and an HD TV to the same tuner so I can see both at the same time (different rooms)?

Bruce


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

3ruce3 said:


> I have been experiencing the audio drop outs since the install of my new HR20. Is there a solution? The drop outs are on my HR20 plus the HR10-250.
> And one more request: does anyone have a suggestion for how to connect a non-HD TV and an HD TV to the same tuner so I can see both at the same time (different rooms)?
> Bruce


Audio on both units could be either the channel [provider] or a weak signal [re-align the dish] I would think.
To connect two TVs would need a long cable [S-video & sound] connected. All of the outputs have signals on the back of the HR-20, so HD to your HD TV & SD to your SD TV should work fine [at the same time].


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## 3ruce3 (Feb 22, 2007)

Thanks for the quick response. They sent out a tech on Saturday and he did a dish realignment. They are scheduled to come back tomorrow afternoon to see what they can do. It's just so frustrating!

Thanks for the info on the outputs. I couldn't find any info on the HR20's outputs. Any idea for the HR10?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

3ruce3 said:


> Thanks for the quick response. They sent out a tech on Saturday and he did a dish realignment. They are scheduled to come back tomorrow afternoon to see what they can do. It's just so frustrating!
> 
> Thanks for the info on the outputs. I couldn't find any info on the HR20's outputs. Any idea for the HR10?


I don't have one so.....I won't BS you.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Audio on both units could be either the channel [provider] or a weak signal [re-align the dish] I would think.
> To connect two TVs would need a long cable [S-video & sound] connected. All of the outputs have signals on the back of the HR-20, so HD to your HD TV & SD to your SD TV should work fine [at the same time].


I think another source of audio dropouts could be the HR20 software itself: how the audio is written and read to disc while simultaneously reading/writing other programming that is being recorded on the 2nd tuner, etc. But, that's just a theory.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dhaakenson said:


> I think another source of audio dropouts could be the HR20 software itself: how the audio is written and read to disc while simultaneously reading/writing other programming that is being recorded on the 2nd tuner, etc. But, that's just a theory.


You could be right, but I'm not having the problem. [I know.. mine works, your's sucks but..] This is why I think it may be more something in the "chain", the station or the D* uplink.


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## cmoss5 (May 26, 2006)

3ruce3 said:


> I have been experiencing the audio drop outs since the install of my new HR20. Is there a solution? The drop outs are on my HR20 plus the HR10-250.
> 
> And one more request: does anyone have a suggestion for how to connect a non-HD TV and an HD TV to the same tuner so I can see both at the same time (different rooms)?
> 
> Bruce


Suggest you go to Radio Shack and purchase a $19.95 modulator...it comes with the necessary hardware except the long cable to run it from one room to another one...has SUPERVIDEO, and COMPONENT wires in the box with modulator.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> You could be right, but I'm not having the problem. [I know.. mine works, your's sucks but..] This is why I think it may be more something in the "chain", the station or the D* uplink.


Keep in mind that if anyone experiences any problems with the HD MPEG4 locals the first place to check would be your local DMA thread over at AVSForum.com.

This thread: (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453241) is an index to the local threads for pretty much every DMA. Logically the first thing you want to do is eliminate the network and then the station. If problems are being reported in your DMA for OTA reception it's not a DTV or HR20 problem. If you go to your DMA's thread and no one is complaining about the problems you're having then it's the DTV feed, your HR20 or your dish/cabling/setup.

There really needs to be a sticky reminding everyone to start their HD MPEG4 local troubleshooting over at AVSForum.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

3ruce3 said:


> Thanks for the quick response. They sent out a tech on Saturday and he did a dish realignment. They are scheduled to come back tomorrow afternoon to see what they can do. It's just so frustrating!
> 
> Thanks for the info on the outputs. I couldn't find any info on the HR20's outputs. Any idea for the HR10?


You can hook the HR10 to multiple devices BUT (sorry) the HR10 only outputs on component and composite (or s-video) connectors at the same time when the resolution is set to 480i. The HR10 does not run all outputs at the higher resolutions.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Anonuser (Jan 15, 2007)

Demsin2008 said:


> Yes, I have had conversations with Chase Carey the CEO of the company. At first he was the nicest of nice people. He had a senior executive call me from his car on a saturday morning from Los Angeles promising me help.
> 
> Here is a review:
> 
> ...


If everything has been replaced and you are still experiencing problems, I would begin to look at the environment. I develop military communications systems, and Electro Magnetic Compatibility (EMC) is always an issue (i.e. systems being able to operate simultaneously with other systems in the same/adjacent RF frequency spectrum).

A site survey to determine if you are in the path (on a hill??) between commercial microwave towers or other high power Radio Frequency radiating systems may be in order. I don't quite understand why your HR250s would work, and the others do not. Maybe your HR250s have a better RF front end??


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Anonuser said:


> If everything has been replaced and you are still experiencing problems, I would begin to look at the environment. I develop military communications systems, and Electro Magnetic Compatibility (EMC) is always an issue (i.e. systems being able to operate simultaneously with other systems in the same/adjacent RF frequency spectrum).
> 
> A site survey to determine if you are in the path (on a hill??) between commercial microwave towers or other high power Radio Frequency radiating systems may be in order. I don't quite understand why your HR250s would work, and the others do not. Maybe your HR250s have a better RF front end??


Actually I think DTV should take a look at his/her install. They may run across whatever is causing problems for others.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Actually I think DTV should take a look at his/her install. They may run across whatever is causing problems for others.


I guess I need to give some update. I'm in contact with the OP. D* sent engineers out to his location last fall. They spend a day or two going over everything. Reception isn't the problem. Then they left with no follow on. I think they "found" it was the software [back then] and knew they couldn't do anymore.
Shortly "we" will be cleaning one of the two units out [reset everything, reformat, etc.] and see what kind of success we get with the new software.
This has helped other members [after some of the recent software].
Don't know yet, but that's "the plan" after checking the running temp. FWIW


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I guess I need to give some update. I'm in contact with the OP. D* sent engineers out to his location last fall. They spend a day or two going over everything. Reception isn't the problem. Then they left with no follow on. I think they "found" it was the software [back then] and knew they couldn't do anymore.
> Shortly "we" will be cleaning one of the two units out [reset everything, reformat, etc.] and see what kind of success we get with the new software.
> This has helped other members [after some of the recent software].
> Don't know yet, but that's "the plan" after checking the running temp. FWIW


Is there any way to monitor their input power? Also, do they live near an airport, a ham radio operator or high voltage power lines? Past experience has shown these to be problematic.

Bob


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

azarby said:


> Is there any way to monitor their input power? Also, do they live near an airport, a ham radio operator or high voltage power lines? Past experience has shown these to be problematic.
> Bob


All good questions, & I'm going to be asking more about the environment. His wife is ill & there may be some "abnormal" medical equipment involved, but I don't know [yet].


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> All good questions, & I'm going to be asking more about the environment. His wife is ill & there may be some "abnormal" medical equipment involved, but I don't know [yet].


Some of the medical equipment makes some horrendous short term demand on the power grid, especially when cycling on and off. A good high capacity (1200-1500va) UPS with filtering can alleviate a lot of those types of problems. The reason for so large is you need to make sure the TV is on their also, else you can get spurious ground loop effects. Audio should be connected via optical to isolate the receiver from the IRD. I've even seen problems were people live near businesses that have their own two way communications systems that interfere with everything imaginable.

Bob


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

azarby said:


> Some of the medical equipment makes some horrendous short term demand on the power grid, especially when cycling on and off. A good high capacity (1200-1500va) UPS with filtering can alleviate a lot of those types of problems. The reason for so large is you need to make sure the TV is on their also, else you can get spurious ground loop effects. Audio should be connected via optical to isolate the receiver from the IRD. I've even seen problems were people live near businesses that have their own two way communications systems that interfere with everything imaginable.
> Bob


All noted.
I've got a few decades under my belt too, not that I won't keep listening to everyone.
Only an idiot thinks he knows everything [IMO].


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> All noted.
> I've got a few decades under my belt too, not that I won't keep listening to everyone.
> Only an idiot thinks he knows everything [IMO].


Good luck,

Bob


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

azarby said:


> Good luck,
> 
> Bob


Thanks, I'm sure I'll need some.


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## cynical2 (Oct 16, 2006)

First I've noticed this thread...makes for interesting reading. VOS, any update?

FWIW (which probably isn't much ):
I'm with some of the other posters...would start with a big a$$ quality UPS. My bet is on problematic power being supplied to his system (HR20, TV, etc). I'd just do it in the room he considers most important, and see if it cleans up the issues he's seen, while his 2nd system still has problems.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

cynical2 said:


> First I've noticed this thread...makes for interesting reading. VOS, any update?
> 
> FWIW (which probably isn't much ):
> I'm with some of the other posters...would start with a big a$$ quality UPS. My bet is on problematic power being supplied to his system (HR20, TV, etc). I'd just do it in the room he considers most important, and see if it cleans up the issues he's seen, while his 2nd system still has problems.


Yea, it has been a while since VOS has updated this.

Another possibility. When I was in the two-way radio business, we had a customer that was about 10 miles from Ellington Air Force Base. Every time the sweep radar passed by the business, it took there two way base station out. By adjusting antenna height either below or above the sweep line was what fixed the issue.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Spanky_Partain said:


> Yea, it has been a while since VOS has updated this.
> Another possibility. When I was in the two-way radio business, we had a customer that was about 10 miles from Ellington Air Force Base. Every time the sweep radar passed by the business, it took there two way base station out. By adjusting antenna height either below or above the sweep line was what fixed the issue.


Well I can tell you when my bomber would fly over, I could make sure there way no two-way, one-way anything.... I used to work electronic warfare....:lol:

Back to the topic:
Somebody is celebrating his birthday this weekend & when he gets back, we'll be cleaning out one of the receivers and start "the check list".


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

VOS - I wonder if this is a usabilty issue. I write software and about half of my trouble calls for software are users not using the software correctly or doing something in a manor not intended by the software. Has anyone asked him to walk through how exactly he deletes a program?

I would also suspect that other outside influences may be present, but if there is no degrading of picture quality or sound quality, it would seem that interferance is a long shot.

I too am anxious to find out the answer to this riddle.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

AlbertZeroK said:


> I write software and about half of my trouble calls for software are users not using the software correctly or doing something in a manor not intended by the software.


This kind of reminds me of a email sent to me. The sender had found a software app that would make an audio file to send in/with emails. She sent me one & asked how it turned out. I opened the file, had nothing but silence.................................
Having setup her computer, I had some idea of what she had, so I asked her if she had bought a microphone? 
"What? 
I need one? 
I thought.........." 
Truth be told, she obviously didn't.....[think].


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## LA_john (Feb 17, 2007)

ChrisMinCT said:


> I also RBR them every couple of days because from what I read here it looked like there was a lot of memory leaks in the software because everyone's units got progressively worst as time passed with each release. I continue to do that more as a preventative measure.


Just a thought on the above...

I use an AVID edit system here at work (NBC Network) and I reboot this sucker at the start of EVERY workday (I turn EVERYTHING off and have a sequenced startup) and again during the edit session if my memory usage reaches just 20%. I have the fewest problems of any editor here and this system is way more stable than these HR20's seem to be.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

A week ago, he took one of his HR-20s and did both the "reset everything & a front panel reformat". Nothing else was changed and SO FAR it's behaving. 
Next will be to do the same to the other HR-20 as the recordings get viewed and the programs get recorded on the "fixed" HR-20.
"Just" waiting for a new software download doesn't always seem to "cure" a bad acting receiver. The software does seem to be developed enough so that "troubled" receivers will work if given a "fresh start".
There is nothing like a good flushing out to get rid of glitches. If something is still wrong, they will come back, of course, but there are more and more that are behaving themselves with the current software & a "fresh start" using it.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> A week ago, he took one of his HR-20s and did both the "reset everything & a front panel reformat". Nothing else was changed and SO FAR it's behaving.
> Next will be to do the same to the other HR-20 as the recordings get viewed and the programs get recorded on the "fixed" HR-20.
> "Just" waiting for a new software download doesn't always seem to "cure" a bad acting receiver. The software does seem to be developed enough so that "troubled" receivers will work if given a "fresh start".
> There is nothing like a good flushing out to get rid of glitches. If something is still wrong, they will come back, of course, but there are more and more that are behaving themselves with the current software & a "fresh start" using it.


You can always force the same image and it will be sort of like getting a new version


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> A week ago, he took one of his HR-20s and did both the "reset everything & a front panel reformat". Nothing else was changed and SO FAR it's behaving.
> Next will be to do the same to the other HR-20 as the recordings get viewed and the programs get recorded on the "fixed" HR-20.
> "Just" waiting for a new software download doesn't always seem to "cure" a bad acting receiver. The software does seem to be developed enough so that "troubled" receivers will work if given a "fresh start".
> There is nothing like a good flushing out to get rid of glitches. If something is still wrong, they will come back, of course, but there are more and more that are behaving themselves with the current software & a "fresh start" using it.


Good to hear.. Sad tho that the D* people didn't do that for him...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> You can always force the same image and it will be sort of like getting a new version


You're posting about the version of software? Yes if there was a problem with it then sure, but that wasn't the problem here. It seems there are enough check sums to cause a re-download and it seems to say [correctly] in the Eproms. There does seem to be "crap" left in the rest of the hardware that needs to be "flushed" [cleared, re-sync'd] for some of these "bad actors" to start behaving. I've been "watching" and where this didn't do that much a couple of months ago, it is having much more [better] success now [with the current software].
I might look like a hero to him, and all I did was to raise my hand at the right time [good software, good flushing out].


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> Good to hear.. Sad tho that the D* people didn't do that for him...


It's all in the timing. "They" beat their heads against the wall, but still had last fall's software. I wait until the software is better [good] and bingo, one good flush and...


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

I remember someone once recommending sacrificing a chicken...?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

islesfan said:


> I remember someone once recommending sacrificing a chicken...?


But it had to be on a full moon.:lol:


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

islesfan said:


> I remember someone once recommending sacrificing a chicken...?


might have taken a whole goat for this one :lol:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

What I think the "flushing out" is like:
A couple of days ago, I hit the esc key to come out of screen saver & check the forum. I'm using XP & it hasn't been having any problems for a long time, but it froze. Looked at the hard drive light, & it was one solid. Not nothing, locked up.
Did the "white button reset" & rebooted. No boot drive. Since this isn't a HR-20, after several attempts, I go into the BIOS, & one of my drives wasn't there. A few words [leave them to you], then powered down & back up. Still won't boot. Back into the BIOS & moved the boot drive back to the first priority to boot from. Reboot, no problem.
Now if I could have the same "control" over [or with] the HR-20, the same thing wouldn't be a problem, but since I don't [or can't], this is where the "reset everything" could be the only option for a similar "issue". I screwed up the OTA setup & could get it back without a reset everything. While the HR-20 maybe a computer, it doesn't have all of the "options" or controls to make the needed changes.
This is why [where] the "flushing out" is needed with the "good" software.
Well, that's what it "feels like" to me. FWIW


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> It's all in the timing. "They" beat their heads against the wall, but still had last fall's software. I wait until the software is better [good] and bingo, one good flush and...


Are you saying that the nationwide updates didn't get loaded into their system and they still had SW from last fall? Whic version?

Bob


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

azarby said:


> Are you saying that the nationwide updates didn't get loaded into their system and they still had SW from last fall? Which version?
> Bob


Not at all. This goes back a long time. The D* engineers worked hard last fall to solve the problems, but didn't and "just walked away". The customer [the OP] was just "left hanging". Then after all of his troubles, came here & started this thread.
Now as I've posted: if the software isn't working like it should, clear out the hardware & give it a "fresh start".


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

What I was trying to say with post #95:
For those that know: The reset everything is like going into the PC & pulling the battery out or switching the jumper to clear the BIOS on the motherboard. It doesn't change the BIOS. It just clears out what it causing the troubles.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

First hiccup.
Both receivers suffered a power "blip" and have gone back to starting to misbehave.

Can we all together say UPS. [And not the big brown truck].

This wasn't a "loss" per se, but a momentary [as he put it] blip. From his lights.

Can anybody guess what the drives did?

Damn why can't D* fix these things? 
Who cares if it's my power company doing it.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

If a slight power blip is going to cause a consumer device this much trouble...then there should be a UPS within the unit...or at least a small backup battery that can provide enough power for a graceful shutdown.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Ken S said:


> If a slight power blip is going to cause a consumer device this much trouble...then there should be a UPS within the unit...or at least a small backup battery that can provide enough power for a graceful shutdown.


Does your desktop computer have one?


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## JoeKerr (Jan 17, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Does your desktop computer have one?


I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I think this is an interesting issue. Since the HR20 is much more of a black-box product than a PC, I would expect a more fault-tolerant system design. Consumer OSes (Linux and Windows, plus 3rd parties) give you a lot of utilities to help recover after a crash, while the HR20 has just a few options -- and most of them very blunt (like the complete reset).


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

Ken S said:


> If a slight power blip is going to cause a consumer device this much trouble...then there should be a UPS within the unit...or at least a small backup battery that can provide enough power for a graceful shutdown.


Agreed. Any device that is so fragile as to misbehave at the slightest change in perfect environmental conditions is not robust enough to get me to open my wallet to purchase additional stuff to keep it running more consistently. And, if it does benefit from UPS, then DTV should either build it into the unit, or be forced to label the box that additional equipment may be required to maintain proper operation of the receiver.


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Does your desktop computer have one?


No, but then again, the HR20 has no option to shut down gracefully when power does go out like my desktop and server machines. Even my little Mac mini will shut it's self down.

And when they don't it's RARE to see data corruption.

I do have my HR20's on an UPS but it only lasts about 15 minutes, what are consumers to do after that? Format the drive and start over?


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## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

I have mine on UPS and haven't had any power-related problems that I'm aware of. 

I bought the UPS to protect the projector bulb in my TV. The TV didn't come with one, but they recommend it.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dhaakenson said:


> Agreed. Any device that is so fragile as to misbehave at the slightest change in perfect environmental conditions is not robust enough to get me to open my wallet to purchase additional stuff to keep it running more consistently. And, if it does benefit from UPS, then DTV should either build it into the unit, or be forced to label the box that additional equipment may be required to maintain proper operation of the receiver.


It's a computer with a hard drive. I quick brownout can damage a hard drive, power supply or any internal component. Couple corrupt sectors on the drive due to power brown out and viola, problem box until formatted.

You gotta wonder how many problems people have are because of power power conditions.

UPS is the way.


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## dhaakenson (Jan 14, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> You gotta wonder how many problems people have are because of power conditions.


Agreed.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Follow on:
The HR-20 manual Pg 42: Recommends using a surge suppressor or power conditioner. The HR-20 "protection" circuits can take 30 sec to reactivate. Unplugging power for five min is another.
When I lose power, it takes them 45 min minimum to restore it.
IF the "glitch or blip" is within the 30 sec of the "protection": the drive is spinning 7-10 thousand RPMs, writing data 24/7, is going to have "a problem". I think it's just "physics".
Now everybody [well some] want D* to put in something for this. So what do you want to do with the battery required? They need to be changed.
A VCR or non-recording receiver doesn't have a drive, and as such doesn't have the problem.
Servers, and any computer on AC power that has "important" data is plugged into a UPS.
Why is it unreasonable to "expect" a consumer device to use the same thing [since it has a hard drive too]?
Why is it "D*s FAULT" if your power company doesn't give you; constant, clean power?
I don't work for D*. They don't pay me.
I have worked with many, many, systems over decades, so "I guess" it makes more sense to me than an "average consumer". YMMV


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## tonyn (Aug 3, 2007)

Were these troublesome units Dash 100 or were they dash 700, or has he tried both. The different models are made by different manufacturers.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tonyn said:


> Were these troublesome units Dash 100 or were they dash 700, or has he tried both. The different models are made by different manufacturers.


Sorry but this is so old, there weren't any -100 released at the time.
Six month old threads should be left to die a quiet death please.


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## chris0 (Jun 25, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Sorry but this is so old, there weren't any -100 released at the time.
> Six month old threads should be left to die a quiet death please.


but now that it's back it's piqued my interest, kinda like watching reruns over the summer of a show you never watched before...did the OP get the problem resolved? I didn't see where he reported the end either way.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

chris0 said:


> but now that it's back it's piqued my interest, kinda like watching reruns over the summer of a show you never watched before...did the OP get the problem resolved? I didn't see where he reported the end either way.


I took over posting the status, so you can re-read my postings here. [I hate re-runs :lol: ].


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## chris0 (Jun 25, 2007)

Seems like new software (and you) fixed his problem. I"m glad I got my HR20-700 after all the headaches, not a single problem in the 4 months I've had it. Anyway...

We now resume our regularly scheduled programming...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow, talk about finding an old one to dig up... 

If the OP is still around I will close this thread if he requests it.


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## davidord (Aug 16, 2006)

This thread is about as relevant as asking if I should buy VHS or Beta.


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