# How do Stand-Alone TiVo's Work with DirecTV?



## TheTooleMan (Apr 9, 2006)

I'm posting this so we can discuss my findings and decide if I'm right or wrong about this:

I just shopped at CompUSA for a TiVo, which is now virtually free with two rebates. (Of course, you pay $12.95 per month for the TiVo subscription programming service, like the free razor which requires you to buy the razor blades.) After a lengthy discussion with the salesman, I came to the conclusion that a stand-alone TiVo wouldn't do much more than a VCR as far as being able to program it to record from DirecTV.

A stand-alone TiVo does not have a slot for a DirecTV card, so the TiVo's built-in tuner would not be able to descramble the signal from the satellite. This means a receiver box, such as an R10, would be required to feed the TiVo. 

Here is where the salesman and I got into a difference of opinion: the salesman thinks the receiver box feeds the entire bandwidth to the TiVo, which could then tune to a specific channel and record it. But I think the receiver tunes to a specific channel and descrambles it, and that's all it outputs. 

If my concept is right, you would have to use the AutoTune feature of the R10 to tune to the program to be recorded, and then use the TiVo timer (or whatever it has) to record the program. Both units would have to be programmed and their clocks kept in sync. I see great opportunities for failure here...

So who's right - the salesman or me?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I moved the thread, as it is better fitted for this forum.

To answer your questions.

You would need a box like a D10 or D11 (R10 is a DirecTivo combo unit)

TiVo tells the Tuner box (via IR or Serial) which channel it wants
The Tuner box tunes in the channel, then sends an ANALOG signal via RF-3/4 or Composit connections to the TiVo.
The TiVo then in turn RE-COMPRESSES the video based on the settings, and then stores it.

(happens the same for LIVE BUFFER or Scheduled recordings)

TiVo's timer takes care of it, you don't need the AutoTune feature.

So who is right:.... neither of you 
But you are closer then the salesman was.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

You are correct.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

In addition to my R15, I have an SA Series 2 Tivo hooked up, via IR and, IIRC s-video, to a D11.

Earl is right on all points (as usual).
(Though I think it has s-video as well as composite.)

It works VERY well. It does, however, have only one tuner, rather than the DTivo/R15's two, so you can only record one thing at a time, and if you are recording you are limited to watching what you're recording, or watching an already recorded show. (Or going to another room and watching something else on another reciever, of course.).

You leave the D11 turned on all the time and you use the Tivo remote to change channels, and use the Tivo's guide for scheduling, etc.

The D11 just sits there, getting it's channel changed when the Tivo tells it to, and the Tivo is always sitting there buffering or recording what ever the D11 is putting out.

You will need to hook your Tivo to a phone line or an Internet connection to get guide data and updates.

ApK


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ApK said:


> (Though I think it has s-video as well as composite.)


Yes, S-Video as well.... I usually roll that into composite connections...


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## TheTooleMan (Apr 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You would need a box like a D10 or D11 (R10 is a DirecTivo combo unit)


That's what I meant to say.


Earl Bonovich said:


> TiVo tells the Tuner box (via IR or Serial) which channel it wants
> The Tuner box tunes in the channel, then sends an ANALOG signal via RF-3/4 or Composit connections to the TiVo.
> 
> TiVo's timer takes care of it, you don't need the AutoTune feature.


And in a later post, ApK says...


ApK said:


> You leave the D11 turned on all the time and you use the Tivo remote to change channels, and use the Tivo's guide for scheduling, etc.


So the TiVo's guide tells TiVo to change the channel on the D10/D11? and this means you have to pay the TiVo subscription fee to get this to work?

Not quite what I had in mind.


Earl Bonovich said:


> The TiVo then in turn RE-COMPRESSES the video based on the settings, and then stores it.
> 
> (happens the same for LIVE BUFFER or Scheduled recordings)


I take it the re-compression is due to the analog input. If it recorded from its own tuner, would it still re-compress?

Does the R15 re-compress, too?


Earl Bonovich said:


> So who is right:.... neither of you
> But you are closer then the salesman was.


Thanks, I appreciate that!


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

The TiVo box will send a signal to your D* box, telling it to change channels...just like you would do with your remote control. Once the D* box changes channels and is feeding the proper video feed, the TiVo begins recording. 

You don't have to pay D* the TiVo/DVR fee. You do, however, have to pay TiVo to use their guide service. Otherwise, you'd have to be home to set your D* box and your TiVo to record...then you've lost anything you might have gained over having a VCR.

Sam


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

As Sam Said;

Yes you would have to pay the $13 a month (or some variation of pre-payment) TiVo Fee for their services, in addition to your DirecTV fee.


And yes, you are in fact using the TiVo tuner (it will tune channel 3 or the component inputs)... SA-TiVos only work with Analog signals.

The R15 doesn't recompress. It records the exact Data Stream DirecTV sends out.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

TheTooleMan said:


> So the TiVo's guide tells TiVo to change the channel on the D10/D11? and this means you have to pay the TiVo subscription fee to get this to work?


Here's where the finance wizards take over: go with the R15 and pay $5.98/month (DVR fee) and get an arguable alternative to TiVo with best possible picture quality (digital to analog) or go with the SA TiVo and pay $12.95/month for its thrice converted (D-A, A-D, D-A) picture quality.

Finances aren't everything and the R15 has a few technical issues that hopefully will get worked out someday.

If HDTV isn't in your two or three year future (in your wildest dreams, not your conservative side), the DirecTV R15 setup is hard to beat.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes you would have to pay the $13 a month (or some variation of pre-payment) TiVo Fee for their services, in addition to your DirecTV fee.


I'm pretty sure that TiVo has essentially done away with "lifetime" subscriptions for the current crop of receivers. The essential end of usefulness for all current models is less than three years away anyway.

Current "prepaid" plans include a receiver and programming for one, two or three years. Notable is that these prepaid deals are _exempt_ from the multi-service discount.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

harsh said:


> Here's where the finance wizards take over: go with the R15 and pay $5.98/month (DVR fee) and get an arguable alternative to TiVo with best possible picture quality (digital to analog) or go with the SA TiVo and pay $12.95/month for its thrice converted (D-A, A-D, D-A) picture quality.


FWIW, despite the conversions, the picture on our TiVo is very good, even at the lower quality settings.

It is $7/month or so more expensive than the DTV service, yes, and if the R15 worked reliably, you'd have to REALLY like the Tivo software and guide over the R15's to justify it, I think, especially with the two tuners in the R15, but in the R15's current state, that $7 is money well spent, I think.

ApK


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

ApK said:


> FWIW, despite the conversions, the picture on our TiVo is very good, even at the lower quality settings.
> 
> It is $7/month or so more expensive than the DTV service, yes, and if the R15 worked reliably, you'd have to REALLY like the Tivo software and guide over the R15's to justify it, I think, especially with the two tuners in the R15, but in the R15's current state, that $7 is money well spent, I think.
> 
> ApK


I think the R15 works reliably or atleast to costumer expectations from the user reviews I've read of the unit.


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

That's probably because you haven't used one, Jonas. The R15, frankly, sucks. 

I'll spend a couple more dollars per month and I've spent only $80 on a TiVo unit. For that ~$200 or so over 3 years, I'll get enjoyment without headache. I'll get quality without heartache. I'll get all of my programs recorded reliably without having to worry what the developers jacked up in the next version of code. In fact, I doubt I'll have to ever worry about getting another software update ever again.

Sam


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

SamRoza said:


> That's probably because you haven't used one, Jonas. The R15, frankly, sucks.
> 
> I'll spend a couple more dollars per month and I've spent only $80 on a TiVo unit. For that ~$200 or so over 3 years, I'll get enjoyment without headache. I'll get quality without heartache. I'll get all of my programs recorded reliably without having to worry what the developers jacked up in the next version of code. In fact, I doubt I'll have to ever worry about getting another software update ever again.
> 
> Sam


I've never ever even touched a Tivo unit, but I have used a R15. That's probably for the better.


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

Yes, probably for the better. If you had used a TiVo, and gotten stuck with an R15 as a replacement unit, then you might long for a DVR that actually works to customer expectations. Like me. 

Actually about the $$ Now that I don't pay a leasing fee, I'm not stuck paying $5.95 or whatever per month. So it's quite a bit less than $200, in reality.

Sam


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

SamRoza said:


> Yes, probably for the better. If you had used a TiVo, and gotten stuck with an R15 as a replacement unit, then you might long for a DVR that actually works to customer expectations. Like me.
> 
> Actually about the $$ Now that I don't pay a leasing fee, I'm not stuck paying $5.95 or whatever per month. So it's quite a bit less than $200, in reality.
> 
> Sam


Last I checked that $12.95 you have to pay for Tivo is something thats pretty important. Don't pay it then you have a useless box unless you got a box that has the Tivo Lite service. I have 3 SA Tivo's and I can tell you the picture isn't as nice as my R15. None the less though I still like them and I still like my R15. So there goes your longing for a box theory.


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

I suppose that was a little confusing. My intention was to illustrate how affordable having D*TiVo service over the next 3 years was compared to the R15. No leasing fees. Just $80 to purchase, and DVR service. Since apparently I should swallow the R15 because TiVo service won't be live on D* in 2010. 

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Sam


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

SamRoza said:


> I suppose that was a little confusing. My intention was to illustrate how affordable having D*TiVo service over the next 3 years was compared to the R15. No leasing fees.
> Sam


D*TiVo service still requires a monthly receiver mirroring, or monthly leasing, fee. The cost to have D* TiVo service and the cost to have D* R15 service is identical.

Standalone TiVo service without D* would of course not have a monthly programming or mirroring/leasing cost, but then you are only looking at OTA. If you add cable or satellite, you add a corresponding monthly cost.

As far as my personal use and preferences though, I have one Tivo (R10) and two R15 DVR's, and I much prefer, and use the R15's over the R10. But that's just my personal experience. Obviously many feel otherwise.

Carl


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## TheTooleMan (Apr 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And yes, you are in fact using the TiVo tuner (it will tune channel 3 or the component inputs)... SA-TiVos only work with Analog signals.
> 
> The R15 doesn't recompress. It records the exact Data Stream DirecTV sends out.


If I connected a regular analog tv cable to the TiVo, would it compress that? What about an unscrambled digital source, if there is such a thing?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TheTooleMan said:


> If I connected a regular analog tv cable to the TiVo, would it compress that? What about an unscrambled digital source, if there is such a thing?


Analog Cable Signal - Yep, it compress it. To what degree, depends on which of the three settings you select.

Unscrabled Digital Source - The Current SA-TiVos don't know how to tune in or recieve such a signal (for example OTA Digital would be considered unscrambled digital )

When the TiVo Series 3 comes out.... Different story, as those will accept cable cards and a digital tuner that will allow you to do more with a digital signals.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

TheTooleMan said:


> If I connected a regular analog tv cable to the TiVo, would it compress that? What about an unscrambled digital source, if there is such a thing?


The standalone series 2 Tivo has analog inputs ONLY. RF, composite and s-video. Anything that comes in, it has to digitize/encode/compress to put on the disk. Period.
In the case of the RF input, it also has to demodulate it first.

Despite this, if your source is good, then the picture on the Tivo on any setting medium or better, is quite good, at least on our 32 inch TV.


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## wipeout (Jul 15, 2003)

Does Tivo have a future? I love it and worry that eventually I'll have to give it up.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Your DirecTivos will work until the hard drive dies, and you can't find a replacement hard drive.

As for TiVo the company.... your guess is as good as anyone elses...


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

wipeout said:


> Does Tivo have a future? I love it and worry that eventually I'll have to give it up.


I've never seen their finacial reports (and wouldn't understand them if I had) but they have a great product, a loyal and growing customer base and they charge a reasonable amount...sounds like a solid plan, as long as they keep pace with technology.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ApK said:


> ... as long as they keep pace with technology.


That is the key point (IMHO)

With recent reports that "CableCards" are in jeopardy with some of the larger Cable-Co's (I'll have to dig that article up again, it was last week)

That is a major risk for TiVo and the Series 3 unit....

TiVo is a great product.....


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

wipeout said:


> Does Tivo have a future? I love it and worry that eventually I'll have to give it up.


I dont know if the series 3 will have dual tuners but thats one of the reasons why I went with a D*tivo instead of a sa series 2 Tivo


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