# New HD Channels on September 5th (Per Installer!)



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

For what it's worth, here's the latest rumor from my DirecTV installer about future HD channels with DirecTV.

I just had my HR20 installed (very neat and professional installion, by tht way), and the installer said they had at this morning's meeting they were told that all of the new HD channels will be activated on September 5, 2007. There will be a big marketing push followed by mass activation.

The timing sounds right, but the 5th is a Wednesday so that part doesn't make sense. I won't live or die by this rumor, but I thought I'd just share what my helpful, courteous, friendly installer shared with me this morning. Maybe he was wrong, though, and the new HD channels will be active in August!


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Did he define what "all the HD channels" included? The bird is going up in May. Does it take that long to bring a channel online after the SAT is up?


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## nick1817 (Feb 12, 2007)

I hope its not that long...


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## Elistan98 (Sep 18, 2006)

From whats been said here it looks like the sat handoff could take from 6 weeks to 3 months. 

In addition remember alot of the HD channels D* promised to carry wont even be live until september


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## techstar (Mar 7, 2007)

Well...my installer was out on Feb. 2 and told me my HD locals were to be turned on on Feb. 14. Needless to say, they weren't (this is the largest market in US without them), and now they're saying mid-April. This after an October press release promising them by year's end 2006 and then two missed dates in January. So I won't believe anything til they're actually visible in the guide, and even then I'll have my doubts!


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Did he define what "all the HD channels" included? The bird is going up in May. *Does it take that long to bring a channel online after the SAT is up*?


It could. Once it is in orbit the mfg runs alot of tests on it they turn it over to DTV.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Did he define what "all the HD channels" included? The bird is going up in May. Does it take that long to bring a channel online after the SAT is up?


He said the nationals .... CNN, USA, etc. Like others said, though, you have to take it with a grain of salt. He could have misunderstood something he heard in the meeting, or it may not have been relayed correctly to whoever told him...


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

September 5th - Man that seems like a long time. I hope they get those DLBs installed on the HR20 before that.


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> September 5th - Man that seems like a long time. I hope they get those DLBs installed on the HR20 before that.


Unfortunately, I bet it's pretty accurate. When D* said later in 2007 at the latest, I actually took that to mean that's when it will actually happen. I forget if someone answered it earlier, but if bandwidth is an issue, I still don't understand why they're launching new SD channels 1st.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> Did he define what "all the HD channels" included? The bird is going up in May. Does it take that long to bring a channel online after the SAT is up?


There are two new sats going up this year, DirecTV 10 and 11. However, D*11 is currently scheduled to go up on a Zenit using SeaLaunch, which had a wee accident last month that you may have heard about. Until the cause of the failure is ID'd and the Odyssey launch platform refurbished, SeaLaunch isn't putting anything up. That could take months or even perhaps a year. If D* can make alternate arrangements, the second sat may yet make it before the year is out. D*10 is set for launch on a Russian Proton rocket sometime around the end of the Q1 '07, but that could easily slip back a few weeks.


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## beavis (Jun 9, 2005)

D10 is scheduled for a June launch, so Sep. 5th is a reasonable date, provided the launch goes smoothly.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I would always take what an installer says with a grain of salt but Sept 5th is very much in the timeframe after the first sat launch. My personal feeling is that they will try to get as much up as they can during the Sunday Ticket push if they can, by fall at the latest.


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## Knepster (May 31, 2006)

I had pretty much been figuring on Sept anyway. That's even the date I told my dad to expect them since he is switching over from cable. I had held out a little hope for sooner, but had Sept in my mind.


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## MAVERICK007 (Aug 30, 2006)

Wednesday after Labor Day sounds possible. DTV will need to push its HD content and marketing hard to make $$$ targets for Q3 and Q4. Plus, that date is in line with the NFL season kick-off!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Elistan98 said:


> From whats been said here it looks like the sat handoff could take from 6 weeks to 3 months.


Past history (going way back) tells us that it takes anywhere from two to six months.

The last two DirecTV named satellites (8 & 9S) are difficult to gauge because they didn't go directly into service.

Given the size of the new satellites as well as the fact that they will have a large spotbeam capacity, it is not all that likely that deployment will be on the quick side of the range.

As for the launch dates, the most recent announcement from DirecTV came via an AP report which contained the following:


AP Wire February 23 said:


> "We are looking into options for launching the second satellite, and it could be delayed," DirecTV spokesman Darris Gringeri said Friday. "We just don't know yet if it will be delayed into 2008. Regardless, it will not change our plans for getting 100 channels of HD up by the end of the year because that that will be accomplished by the launch of the first satellite in Q3."


This was in reference to the question about will they still have 100 channels by the end of 2007. I clipped this from a post by pdxtom on the DirecTV technical help forum.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> Past history (going way back) tells us that it takes anywhere from two to six months.
> 
> The last two DirecTV named satellites (8 & 9S) are difficult to gauge because they didn't go directly into service.
> 
> ...


2,577 and counting. 
:beatdeadhorse:


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> 2,577 and counting.
> :beatdeadhorse:


Nice to know that someone is watching out for me.

This is something that I hadn't posted before, BTW.

What do your observations of my activities add to this (or any other) thread? Is it just that you need the last word (or two)?


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

old news man


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> Nice to know that someone is watching out for me.
> 
> This is something that I hadn't posted before, BTW.
> 
> What do your observations of my activities add to this (or any other) thread? Is it just that you need the last word (or two)?


You have given your 'opinion' on how long it will take to activate satellites 2,577 times - that's all.

and for a person that subs to E*, you have an awfully strong urge to follow what D* is doing. Is it that you are just trying to plan when to make your switch?


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> It could. Once it is in orbit the mfg runs alot of tests on it they turn it over to DTV.


According to the Boeing web site the sat is delivered on the ground. Not in orbit.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/launch_sched.html

Note that it indicated DOG(Deliverer on Ground) by D 10 & 11. Note that some sats indicate DIO (Delivered in Orbit), but this does not pretain the the D* sats.

It appears that D* will do its own parking and testing of these sats. D* should have the ability to do all this themselves.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> 2,577 and counting.
> :beatdeadhorse:


Actually, Harsh has changed from his previous posts rather significantly: down to 2 months in his time range and allowed that either D10 or D11 alone could handle the load of 100 HD channels.

I think the counter needs a bit of a reset. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## tsmithfd (Jan 8, 2007)

I am not sure how true it is, but I called in last night to ask a question about a billing problem. The CSR i was talking to was very friendly and seemed very knowledgeable. He told me we would see about 20 of the national channels within the next 3 weeks.....He did mention CNN, FX, and USA. I guess we will wait and see


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

tsmithfd said:


> The CSR i was talking to [...] told me we would see about 20 of the national channels within the next 3 weeks.....He did mention CNN, FX, and USA. I guess we will wait and see


I think that will be a longer wait than three weeks. 

CNN has publicly announced they won't have their HD channel up until this fall.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

lwilli201 said:


> According to the Boeing web site the sat is delivered on the ground. Not in orbit.
> 
> http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/launch/launch_sched.html
> 
> ...


I can clarify that somewhat. DOG is for Title of ownership (and insurance) purposes. Title is specifically transferred upon the moment of "intentional ignition" of the launching vehicle (or numerous other less likely clauses.)

This does not mean that Boeing is turning over the operations of the new satellites at that time. They are scheduled to perform tests in space, including transfer orbit and parking, before operational turnover. (and there are penalties if the satellites don't perform as warrantied.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

tibber said:


> Actually, Harsh has changed from his previous posts rather significantly: down to 2 months in his time range and allowed that either D10 or D11 alone could handle the load of 100 HD channels.
> 
> I think the counter needs a bit of a reset.
> 
> ...


ok - I'll re-set the counter. But I would like one honest answer from him. I understand he is NOT a DirecTV customer, and as such would like to know why he has such an interest in DirecTV - there are more than enough issues with DISH, more than enough DISH subs with complaints.

I guess I'm not feeling why he would feel the need to spend so much time in 'this camps' threads. Is he trying to convert us? (won't work).


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> ok - I'll re-set the counter. But I would like one honest answer from him. I understand he is NOT a DirecTV customer, and as such would like to know why he has such an interest in DirecTV - there are more than enough issues with DISH, more than enough DISH subs with complaints.
> 
> I guess I'm not feeling why he would feel the need to spend so much time in 'this camps' threads. Is he trying to convert us? (won't work).


Maybe we'll convert him  Maybe he enjoys thinking and sharing those thoughts in a wide range of interests (btw, to be clear, I not only don't got no problem with that, I'm happy he does--even if we've not always agreed on everything. The discussion is far more boring if we did agree all the time.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

tibber said:


> Maybe we'll convert him  Maybe he enjoys thinking and sharing those thoughts in a wide range of interests (btw, to be clear, I not only don't got no problem with that, I'm happy he does--even if we've not always agreed on everything. The discussion is far more boring if we did agree all the time.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Maybe he can begin to discuss something other than how long he feels it will take to turn on the birds though.


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

drew2k said:


> I think that will be a longer wait than three weeks.


That is indeed a safe bet.


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## dallascontractor (Jan 9, 2007)

jaywdetroit said:


> Did he define what "all the HD channels" included? The bird is going up in May. Does it take that long to bring a channel online after the SAT is up?


It takes that long before it reaches stable orbit and is turned over to *D*


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> old news man


I had never seen a Q3 window offered by someone at DirecTV before. That may trump the July window from the stock analyst.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dallascontractor said:


> It takes that long before it reaches stable orbit and is turned over to *D*


Stable orbit is usually attained in about 36 hours after launch. Getting the beams oriented and other systems configured and tested takes considerably longer.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> I had never seen a Q3 window offered by someone at DirecTV before. That may trump the July window from the stock analyst.


We don't agree on everything, but I know we agree on this much - that person quoted saying launch in Q3, could have been, just could have been meaning lighting up in Q3. Yeah, its not the wording me or you would use, but it is certainly possible.

All the reports I have seen have offered no change from May/June.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> Stable orbit is usually attained in about 36 hours after launch. Getting the beams oriented and other systems configured and tested takes considerably longer.


Maybe stable orbit, but not in the correct orbital slot. Positioning in the exact corrrect orbital slot takes weeks to a month.


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## WilsonFlyer (Jan 16, 2006)

Installers... now *there's* an authority for reliable information! LOL


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

The debate and counts is "somewhat" interesting and all...but the single largest interest for me is whether or not I'll actually have a reason to spend the dough on NFST-SF for the upcoming season (and another HDTV).

Waiting on the "go live" date just like everyone else. Too many unknowns to get terribly concerned this early in the game.

At the end of the day, it's still the end of the day...


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## gashog301 (Sep 14, 2006)

Thats my birthday! That would be all I would ask for this year,my girlfriend would get off easy.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Maybe stable orbit, but not in the correct orbital slot. Positioning in the exact corrrect orbital slot takes weeks to a month.


Okay, time to dust off my aerospace engineering degree: stable orbit is usually reached within 45 minutes after launch. Of course, that's a highly elliptical geosynch transfer orbit that does absolutely no good to D* or TV lovers. :lol: On the other hand, the orbit is generally "stable." Operational orbit takes longer - on the order of 24 hours or more. Moving to the correct slot then takes days to weeks, depending on the exact parameters of the launch and how much (limited) prop the satellite operator wants to use to make the transfer.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> We don't agree on everything, but I know we agree on this much - that person quoted saying launch in Q3, could have been, just could have been meaning lighting up in Q3. Yeah, its not the wording me or you would use, but it is certainly possible.


Agreed. I've never put much stock in what the DirecTV representatives say. Obviously I spend a lot of time debunking the myths.


> All the reports I have seen have offered no change from May/June.


When we lost access to satellitefinance.com, we lots what appeared to be an excellent resource.

The next solid piece of evidence that I expect is an announcement by Boeing that they have completed a satellite.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> Okay, time to dust off my aerospace engineering degree: stable orbit is usually reached within 45 minutes after launch. Of course, that's a highly elliptical geosynch transfer orbit that does absolutely no good to D* or TV lovers. :lol: On the other hand, the orbit is generally "stable." Operational orbit takes longer - on the order of 24 hours or more. Moving to the correct slot then takes days to weeks, depending on the exact parameters of the launch and how much (limited) prop the satellite operator wants to use to make the transfer.


Thanks! I've watched the daily keps reports as satellites have been walked into their final parking spot, but never had good data during the transfer orbit stage.

This also confirms what I was guessing from reading press and fcc documents.

Cheers,
Tom


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> I've watched the daily keps reports as satellites have been walked into their final parking spot, but never had good data during the transfer orbit stage.


There are many ways to design the trajectories, too, which make the early Keplerian elements (if any are even available) not very accurate. You can launch into LEO and then do a transfer burn with another circularization burn once you get there, you can launch straight into a very high apogee transfer trajectory but very low perigee, skipping the LEO portion entirely, etc. I frankly don't recall how commercial launches do it these days - I've got .pdfs of the Payload Planning Guides for several commercial launchers but I don't have one for Proton or Zenit to see how ILS and SeaLaunch handle it.


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## DFDureiko (Feb 20, 2006)

I'm curious. We will of course get all these new HD channels in our home, as we have an HR20 and a 5LNB dish. But our RV has a Motosat 3LNB dish, and as of now, Motosat has no plans to upgrade to the 5LNB, I'm sure that would take alot of engineering. Think the HD channels will stay status quo on the 101,110 and 119 sats? Will the currant HD offerings on those sats switch to MPEG4?
would sort of be a pain if the "high-def" MHDTV dish, didn't have any HD channels! 
Dan


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

DFDureiko said:


> Will the currant HD offerings on those sats switch to MPEG4?


I think it is likely that _all_ HD channels (save maybe HBO and SHO) will probably move to 99 and 103.

If the antenna in question is a phased array rig, I'm not sure it is possible to make something like that work for both bands.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

DFDureiko said:


> I'm curious. We will of course get all these new HD channels in our home, as we have an HR20 and a 5LNB dish. But our RV has a Motosat 3LNB dish, and as of now, Motosat has no plans to upgrade to the 5LNB, I'm sure that would take alot of engineering. Think the HD channels will stay status quo on the 101,110 and 119 sats? Will the currant HD offerings on those sats switch to MPEG4?
> would sort of be a pain if the "high-def" MHDTV dish, didn't have any HD channels!
> Dan


As Harsh says, Motosat will have to come up with a solution or drop the HD name someday. Pretty much all new HD will be at 99 and 103. The next big question is when will HD start rolling off the current 3lnb. Nobody, not even D* "knows" when that will be. They are already selling HR20's faster than the can make them, so they aren't going to anger HR10 customers by turning off HD before they can get the HR20.

My guess, most of the MPEG2 HD will stay where it is for at least 1 year. But don't count on it much beyond that. So call Motosat and tell them to hurry, hurry, hurry. 

BTW, my guess is that the biggest problem that motosat will face is that the higher frequencies need such a very, very tight control on the position of the dish to see the satellites, especially in rain. very fine feedback loops with very fast responsive actuators. Can be done? sure can. And won't that be cool! 

Cheers,
Tom


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tibber said:


> BTW, my guess is that the biggest problem that motosat will face is that the higher frequencies need such a very, very tight control on the position of the dish to see the satellites, especially in rain. very fine feedback loops with very fast responsive actuators. Can be done? sure can. And won't that be cool!


Given the packaging constraints, I'm willing to bet that it can't be done within the current platform. I would think that at the very least, the surface area would need to be increased in addition to the frustrations of picking out three satellites that are so close together and at radically different frequencies.


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## Kevin Dupuy (Nov 29, 2006)

tsmithfd said:


> I am not sure how true it is, but I called in last night to ask a question about a billing problem. The CSR i was talking to was very friendly and seemed very knowledgeable. He told me we would see about 20 of the national channels within the next 3 weeks.....He did mention CNN, FX, and USA. I guess we will wait and see


Perhaps he meant we would see them on your bill.

Seriously, I'd think D* would want them up in time for the fall TV season, and to push with Sunday Ticket.


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## demisod (Aug 5, 2005)

Will channels like USA, etc. be broadcast in real HD, or will Directv just upconvert SD programs to HD? I see a lot of sports programming on the ESPN HD channels that looks like upconverted SD.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

demisod said:


> Will channels like USA, etc. be broadcast in real HD, or will Directv just upconvert SD programs to HD? I see a lot of sports programming on the ESPN HD channels that looks like upconverted SD.


This isn't anything to do with DirecTV. If the channel is showing SD material it will be upconverted. DirecTV just passes on what the network gives them. Each network does it differently. ESPN for example puts up the side bars. TNT however does it's terrible "stretcho vision" to the SD program.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

How's this for cool! Straight from the satellite's mouth, it looks like my installer may have been right! 



DirecTV10 said:


> Hi folks , I am bursting to tell you all something - but I have the 'wraps on' for a couple of more days. Expect to hear from me with some exciting news by mid-week.
> 
> BTW - I am expected to be ON (operational) by Labor Day.


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## DFDureiko (Feb 20, 2006)

think there would be any benifit of getting an HR20 for the RV? with the MHDTV dish? will any programing on the three satellites swtich to mpeg4? I tried asking D*TV but that was useless. 
Dan


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

DFDureiko said:


> think there would be any benifit of getting an HR20 for the RV?


The benefit (versus an MPEG2 HD DVR) will only be realized under two conditions for RV subscribers:

1. "National" content becomes available at 103W and/or 99W.
2. RV has Ka capable antenna.

The first criteria seems to be coming along.

The second is a buzz killer. For now, that seems to represent an AU-9 mounted on a tripod.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

DFDureiko said:


> think there would be any benifit of getting an HR20 for the RV? with the MHDTV dish? will any programing on the three satellites swtich to mpeg4? I tried asking D*TV but that was useless.
> Dan


DIRECTV is keeping many of these answers very close to the vest. Actually close to the tshirt, under the shirt, under the vest. I spoke with several people at CES in January and at that time if any decisions had been made by the group making those types of decisions, they had not even leaked internally yet.

Some things we have been told: DIRECTV is not going to force users to switch from the older HD recievers/DVRS to get the feeds they are getting now. The cost is too high for DIRECTV to do so at this time. And DIRECTV can't make receivers fast enough as it is; taking some out for free/cheap upgrades will only add to the demand problems.

That said, there is a lot of expectation that DIRECTV will eventually move the MPEG2 HD to MPEG4 someday.

If you have an MHDTV dish now, and don't have an HD receiver, I suggest get an HR20. You can also use it for OTA as well as the current nationals.

If you are starting from scratch, that is where some of this gets tough. I think that today I'd go with a slimline dish and an HR20 until the dish manufactures come up with a 5lnb dish for the RV. You know they are coming, just not there yet. If you understandably do not want the hassle of a slimline/tripod, I'd go with the least expensive solution that meets today's needs and throw that dish away in a year or so when the 5lnb comes out.

Have fun rolling along,
Tom


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

First time I saw TNTHD and they did a pan I wondered what was wrong with the TV, Then they changed the channel and all was well.

I belong to a video forum and I see posts all the time from users that want a 4:3 or 2.35:1 to fill the screen on a 16:9 HD set. and they don't care what will happen to the image they feel cheated that it doesn't fill the screen. TNTHD caters to that mentality.

Then there is the other type that wants to fit 24 half hour episodes on one DVD 4.7Gb and doesn't care about the quality. same type wants to squeez a 2 hour movie to fit a CD.

Here I think most members are more concerned with quality than quantity.

BTW about HD lite controversy....

Excerpts from another thread on a video forum
"Why don't the pros care? Maybe because nothing with full 1920x1080 is ever stored for distribution let alone broadcast to the masses. The top distribution master tape format is 10bit, 144Mb/s HDCAM which is compressed 1440x1080. How does 1920x1080i broadcast happen? With horizontal upscale from 1440 to 1920 during playback."

Cheers


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> Here I think most members are more concerned with quality than quantity.


You'd think so, but a lot of people here want as much HD as possible no matter how bad it looks. 


> Excerpts from another thread on a video forum
> "Why don't the pros care? Maybe because nothing with full 1920x1080 is ever stored for distribution let alone broadcast to the masses. The top distribution master tape format is 10bit, 144Mb/s HDCAM which is compressed 1440x1080. How does 1920x1080i broadcast happen? With horizontal upscale from 1440 to 1920 during playback."


So he's saying the networks are adding an extra 480 lines during primetime HD? HDNet and Discovery aren't really sending us 1920? I find that hard to believe.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

If you are interested I'll try and find the thread and post a link?

And yes they really are sending 1080i however it is derived.

TNTHD can be said to be sending true HD even if they do stretch-o-vision it.

What is the end resolution of a 720 by 480 DVD when it is upconverted to 1920 by 1080, why it is 1080i (or 1080p). So what the TV sees is true HD what is the starting point? True DVD. So what would be the benefit of upconversion? To have the WS DVD fill the screen side to side rather be in a 4:3 with pillarboxes.

Or I could have the wrong end of the stick here. 

The person I quoted seems very knowledgeable from from what I'm reading.


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