# First Look: DIRECTV H44 Genie Server & External HDD



## Scott Kocourek

*DBSTalk is proud to release our First Look of the DIRECTV H44 Genie Server & External HDD*​​





*H44-500 Genie & External HDD First Look*​​*The H44 is not available at this time, please do not call DIRECTV with expectations of getting an H44*​​​_Please note that some DBSTalk.com testers and staff members may have received free equipment from DIRECTV or its partners for the purpose of evaluation and testing._​


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## Scott Kocourek

Thank you to all of the members that participated in the Field Trial and helped put the First Look together. You are all an amazing group of testers!

Link to Solid Signal's Hands On of the H44: http://forums.solidsignal.com/showthread.php/7622-Solid-Signal-s-HANDS-ON-REVIEW-DIRECTV-H44-Genie-Lite-and-external-hard-drive


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## damondlt

Nice. Good job once again.
Very professional. 
The real Scott comes through yet again.  
This is an awesome addtion to the Directv's equipment line up.

So this will do 4 rooms with HD non dvr?
Correct 
Or 4 rooms HD DVR if an external is added correct?

My question is what is the 5th tuner used for if you are just using the NON DVR version?


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## Go Beavs

Awesome First Look, Scott!

Looks like it's going to be a great addition to the Genie lineup!


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## mexican-bum

This is how a "Hands on" First look should well....look :yesman:

Great job :biggthump


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## peds48

damondlt said:


> ?
> 
> My question is what is the 5th tuner used for if you are just using the NON DVR version?


PIP?

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## peds48

Another win for Directv. Great first look. 


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## Scott Kocourek

Guys/Gals, I appreciate the nice words but I ask that everyone here avoid negative discussion about others work.


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## damondlt

This read is great.








The fact that it can schedule recordings to other DVRs is awesome .
Its like having a Genie but the function of H25s, which IMO is what I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR.

I think I'm liking this thing better that then the Real Genies.
I can't wait for some more reviews.


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## inkahauts

damondlt said:


> Nice. Good job once again.
> Very professional.
> The real Scott comes through yet again.
> This is an awesome addtion to the Directv's equipment line up.
> 
> So this will do 4 rooms with HD non dvr?
> Correct
> Or 4 rooms HD DVR if an external is added correct?
> 
> My question is what is the 5th tuner used for if you are just using the NON DVR version?


It can be used for PIP or POP on the main unit or double play on the main unit and or any client.


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## trh

Nice job.

I know some friends that would love this unit just for the size.


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## Supramom2000

The size and speed are incomparable! Nice work on the First Look everyone!


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## MysteryMan

Another reason why I've been a DIRECTV customer for twenty years. Thanks for the First Look.


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## dpeters11

damondlt said:


> This read is great.
> 
> The fact that it can schedule recordings to other DVRs is awesome .
> Its like having a Genie but the function of H25s, which IMO is what I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR.
> 
> I think I'm liking this thing better that then the Real Genies.
> I can't wait for some more reviews.


To clarify, this function is only in receiver mode. Once in DVR mode, it can only record to itself.


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## Stuart Sweet

Excellent job guys!


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## damondlt

dpeters11 said:


> To clarify, this function is only in receiver mode. Once in DVR mode, it can only record to itself.


 
That's strange, I wonder why?
What would change just by having an external hooked up that it wouldn't no longer see to record to the other HRs?


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## b52pooh

So, if the power inserter is built in, and an H44 is installed in an existing SWM system, can theinternal power inserter cause damage to, or be damaged by, the existing external power inserter? Or is this something installers and end-users will need to be cautious about?


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## dpeters11

damondlt said:


> That's strange, I wonder why?
> What would change just by having an external hooked up that it wouldn't no longer see to record to the other HRs?


Basically once the hard drive is installed and rebooted, it sees it as a DVR and all that programming kicks in, guide fills in etc but the function to record to another box is lost.


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## Laxguy

Gorgeous! I guess that confirms my fanboi status... But it is a great looking device. And it can hang behind a TV. Or placed otherwise out of sight, a lot easier due to its small size. I'll take three, please!!


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## RunnerFL

damondlt said:


> Nice. Good job once again.
> Very professional.
> The real Scott comes through yet again.
> This is an awesome addtion to the Directv's equipment line up.
> 
> So this will do 4 rooms with HD non dvr?
> Correct
> Or 4 rooms HD DVR if an external is added correct?
> 
> My question is what is the 5th tuner used for if you are just using the NON DVR version?


4 rooms, including the one where the H44 is. The 5th tuner is PIP.


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## RunnerFL

damondlt said:


> That's strange, I wonder why?
> What would change just by having an external hooked up that it wouldn't no longer see to record to the other HRs?


Because once you hook up a drive it becomes a DVR and takes on the functions of a DVR. No DVR can currently set a recording on another. I wish we could...


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## bakers12

b52pooh said:


> So, if the power inserter is built in, and an H44 is installed in an existing SWM system, can theinternal power inserter cause damage to, or be damaged by, the existing external power inserter? Or is this something installers and end-users will need to be cautious about?


The splitter that connects to the dish only has one power-passing port. There is no way to back-feed power improperly. You would waste some electricity this way, though.

Hopefully, installers will be educated on the new setup. :shrug:


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## J Blow

If we already have a Genie and don't care much about the size difference, what's the advantage of the Lite? 

Are we able to add this unit to a current Genie system?

Thanks.


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## bakers12

J Blow said:


> If we already have a Genie and don't care much about the size difference, what's the advantage of the Lite?
> 
> Are we able to add this unit to a current Genie system?
> 
> Thanks.


Some people probably don't want to pay for DVR service.


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## carl6

damondlt said:


> Nice. Good job once again.
> Very professional.
> The real Scott comes through yet again.
> This is an awesome addtion to the Directv's equipment line up.
> 
> So this will do 4 rooms with HD non dvr?
> Correct
> Or 4 rooms HD DVR if an external is added correct?
> 
> My question is what is the 5th tuner used for if you are just using the NON DVR version?


To further clarify. The H44 is a server (with or without the HDD installed). It can serve up to three external clients (C41 or RVU TV), as well as the local TV. In this regard, it works just like an HR34 or HR44.

Without the HDD, it is basically equivalent to four rooms of regular receivers.

With the HDD, it is basically identical to an HR44.


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## bobnielsen

b52pooh said:


> So, if the power inserter is built in, and an H44 is installed in an existing SWM system, can theinternal power inserter cause damage to, or be damaged by, the existing external power inserter? Or is this something installers and end-users will need to be cautious about?


The H44 and an external PI play nicely together. An external is still required except for those who have a LNB with an integrated SWM.


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## carl6

J Blow said:



> If we already have a Genie and don't care much about the size difference, what's the advantage of the Lite?
> 
> Are we able to add this unit to a current Genie system?
> 
> Thanks.


The limit of one Genie per account remains a DirecTV policy. The H44 is considered to be a Genie, so it cannot be added to an account that already has a Genie.

If you already have an HR44, there is no advantage to an H44. If you already have an HR34, then the H44 with HDD would be equal to upgrading to an HR44.


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## J Blow

bakers12 said:


> Some people probably don't want to pay for DVR service.


So, this basically confirms that the future is all server/client with a single primary host unit and this allows for that to happen without needing DVR services to be part of it? Makes sense.

Well that was needless excitement.


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## David Ortiz

Isn't double play with a Non DVR H44 just changing channels?



inkahauts said:


> It can be used for PIP or POP on the main unit or double play on the main unit and or any client.


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## bobnielsen

J Blow said:


> If we already have a Genie and don't care much about the size difference, what's the advantage of the Lite?
> 
> Are we able to add this unit to a current Genie system?
> 
> Thanks.


DirecTV at this time only allows one Genie per system.


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## RunnerFL

J Blow said:


> If we already have a Genie and don't care much about the size difference, what's the advantage of the Lite?
> 
> Are we able to add this unit to a current Genie system?
> 
> Thanks.


If size is not important there is no advantage.

No word on whether or not you can add an H44 to a system that already has a Genie.


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## James Long

bakers12 said:


> Some people probably don't want to pay for DVR service.


Wouldn't one still be paying for the advanced receiver? $15 for a Genie no-DVR isn't any different than $15 for a Genie or $15 for having a DVR (one fee per account for all advanced receivers).


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## dpeters11

James Long said:


> Wouldn't one still be paying for the advanced receiver? $15 for a Genie no-DVR isn't any different than $15 for a Genie or $15 for having a DVR (one fee per account for all advanced receivers).


I believe that HD receivers currently aren't charged the advanced receiver fee, only DVRs.


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## sangs

The external drive cannot exceed 1 TB?! No thank you.


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## dpeters11

sangs said:


> The external drive cannot exceed 1 TB?! No thank you.


It's always possible for this to change in the future. But of course if/when, we have no idea.

Myself, I'm still generally dubious about really big drives with the current tied to the receiver model. But with the lack of internal components that normally go out, this is lessened.


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## mexican-bum

dpeters11 said:


> I believe that HD receivers currently aren't charged the advanced receiver fee, only DVRs.


correct since dropping SD installs HD receivers on new accounts no longer have a fee.


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## carl6

sangs said:


> The external drive cannot exceed 1 TB?! No thank you.





dpeters11 said:


> It's always possible for this to change in the future. But of course if/when, we have no idea.


I do not anticipate this changing.


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## harsh

J Blow said:


> If we already have a Genie and don't care much about the size difference, what's the advantage of the Lite?


Perhaps a better question is why a Genie Lite and not a a real Genie or a bunch of H25s. The advantages to the customer seem few (better search, PIP on the HDMI connected TV and the ability to be converted to a Genie).

Monthly charges being equal and presumably either one being free to new customers, why this? Are they going to add a fourth Advanced Receiver Service price condition?

I think DIRECTV is finally grasping that all the power adapters and external boxes were getting to be too much. That said, I'm not sure I like the idea of the analog adapters but the H44 is much about cost (to DIRECTV) reduction.


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## harsh

dpeters11 said:


> I believe that HD receivers currently aren't charged the advanced receiver fee, only DVRs.


Previously, having an HD receiver bought you the Advanced Receiver Service: HD fee. This fee may have been replaced with/renamed the TV fee on the first receiver.

Obviously WHDS doesn't apply as there's no "D".


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## mexican-bum

harsh said:


> Previously, having an HD receiver bought you the Advanced Receiver Service: HD fee. This fee may have been replaced with/renamed the TV fee on the first receiver.
> 
> Obviously WHDS doesn't apply as there's no "D".


Correct, a HD receiver is the standard install now and no longer considered "advanced" so only fee is $6.50 lease fee and programming. The $15 advance fee will get you DVR and Whole home service.


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## slice1900

harsh said:


> Perhaps a better question is why a Genie Lite and not a a real Genie or a bunch of H25s. The advantages to the customer seem few (better search, PIP on the HDMI connected TV and the ability to be converted to a Genie).
> 
> Monthly charges being equal and presumably either one being free to new customers, why this? Are they going to add a fourth Advanced Receiver Service price condition?
> 
> I think DIRECTV is finally grasping that all the power adapters and external boxes were getting to be too much. That said, I'm not sure I like the idea of the analog adapters but the H44 is much about cost (to DIRECTV) reduction.


The advantage to H44 + external hard drive over HR44 is that you could use an external mirroring pair of drives if you are worried about losing your recordings. If/when they remove the 1 TB limitation will be another advantage, as you'll have effectively unlimited storage - no more need to keep extra HR2x around purely for additional storage.

The advantage over H25s is mainly if you have RVU TVs or future RVU client devices (i.e. Vidipath clients that also support RVU) as there is no external box. It adds flexibility for the customer who can avoid having extra Directv owned devices installed and reduces cost for Directv when the customer choose to use their own. If nothing else, clients are smaller and could be made much smaller if Directv cared to (though I think they'll let the CE market take care of that when Vidipath clients start to roll out)


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## J Blow

It seems like DTV always stops short of exactly what I'm looking for and this is no exception. I understand how this is possibly helpful for those that don't care about DVR (which seems like it has to be a ridiculously small percentage of people).

What this unit should have been is a way to add additional tuners to the current DVR setup without having to add a DVR or stand alone boxes. It also would have the added benefit of being able to add DVR space by adding the drive. Of course this is the old discussion of multiple genies. Hard to think it's impossible to conquer.


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## slice1900

One question about this - obviously the AM21 supports only two OTA tuners, so if you had one with three clients, and tried to watch three different OTA channels, it won't work. What if you switched to OTA channel A on client 1, then channel B on client 2, then channel A on client 3. Will it share the same stream to clients 1 & 3, or will you get an error message with client 3?

My hunch is that Directv will drop OTA entirely in a few years, so I doubt they'll ever update the AM21, but in the meantime the usefulness of the H44 and especially follow-ons that may have more tuners would seem to be rather limited for those of us who rely on OTA.


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## dpeters11

J Blow said:


> It seems like DTV always stops short of exactly what I'm looking for and this is no exception. I understand how this is possibly helpful for those that don't care about DVR (which seems like it has to be a ridiculously small percentage of people).
> 
> What this unit should have been is a way to add additional tuners to the current DVR setup without having to add a DVR or stand alone boxes. It also would have the added benefit of being able to add DVR space by adding the drive. Of course this is the old discussion of multiple genies. Hard to think it's impossible to conquer.


I don't think it's necessarily all that uncommon for someone to start off not interested in DVR, then wanting it later, and this makes it easy to make that switch.

I know when I first talked about DVR to my parents, neither were interested but they ended up getting one anyway. Dad still isn't interested (he doesn't understand them), but Mom records a LOT. And before she'd say that she'd just watch what was on. Now she 30 skips, uses on demand (and before it was pulled, used YouTube).

I could see this being the standard install for a new installation if a DVR is not requested. H44 and clients.


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## harsh

I was hoping for less trade show glitz (especially in stylish prose) and more hands-on impression. It seems to have been released much earlier in the cycle that other first looks of a "truly new product". The Solid Signal version of review does fill in some of the omissions but questions some of the conclusions.

I would have liked to see some testimony about how snappy it is compared to a comparable H25 configuration (in operation, not just booting) and whether or not hooking up the HD changes the character or performance significantly (over and above losing the ability to program other DVRs). I would have thought that what model remote comes with would have been mentioned.

I offer these comments in the spirit of critique and not as a slight to those who participated or DIRECTV.


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## dpeters11

slice1900 said:


> One question about this - obviously the AM21 supports only two OTA tuners, so if you had one with three clients, and tried to watch three different OTA channels, it won't work. What if you switched to OTA channel A on client 1, then channel B on client 2, then channel A on client 3. Will it share the same stream to clients 1 & 3, or will you get an error message with client 3?
> 
> My hunch is that Directv will drop OTA entirely in a few years, so I doubt they'll ever update the AM21, but in the meantime the usefulness of the H44 and especially follow-ons that may have more tuners would seem to be rather limited for those of us who rely on OTA.


Good question. Only thing I can say is that when an AM21 is put next to an H44, or under one, it looks really ridiculous


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## J Blow

dpeters11 said:


> I don't think it's necessarily all that uncommon for someone to start off not interested in DVR, then wanting it later, and this makes it easy to make that switch.
> 
> I know when I first talked about DVR to my parents, neither were interested but they ended up getting one anyway. Dad still isn't interested (he doesn't understand them), but Mom records a LOT. And before she'd say that she'd just watch what was on. Now she 30 skips, uses on demand (and before it was pulled, used YouTube).
> 
> I could see this being the standard install for a new installation if a DVR is not requested. H44 and clients.


Ya, maybe...I still see the strength of this unit in simply an ability to add tuners but this certainly provides a platform for the application you speak of.

Another way I could see this useful is in the adoption of 4k technology as recording space may be easily upgraded as needed.


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## dpeters11

harsh said:


> I was hoping for less trade show glitz (especially in stylish prose) and more hands-on impression. It seems to have been released much earlier in the cycle that other first looks of a "truly new product". The Solid Signal version of review does fill in some of the omissions but questions some of the conclusions.
> 
> I would have liked to see some testimony about how snappy it is compared to a comparable H25 configuration (in operation, not just booting) and whether or not hooking up the HD changes the character or performance significantly (over and above losing the ability to program other DVRs). I would have thought that what model remote comes with would have been mentioned.
> 
> I offer these comments in the spirit of critique and not as a slight to those who participated or DIRECTV.


In DVR mode, I would compare it to an HR44. Hooking up the drive does make some fairly significant changes to the guide, but it's basically just the differences between something like an H25 to a DVR. One week vs 2, posters, etc.


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## Scott Kocourek

harsh said:


> I was hoping for less trade show glitz (especially in stylish prose) and more hands-on impression. It seems to have been released much earlier in the cycle that other first looks of a "truly new product". The Solid Signal version of review does fill in some of the omissions but questions some of the conclusions.
> 
> I would have liked to see some testimony about how snappy it is compared to a comparable H25 configuration (in operation, not just booting) and whether or not hooking up the HD changes the character or performance significantly (over and above losing the ability to program other DVRs). I would have thought that what model remote comes with would have been mentioned.
> 
> I offer these comments in the spirit of critique and not as a slight to those who participated or DIRECTV.


I removed or did not include some of the speed references because every time that information is included we get slammed and called fanboys. Let me say this, if you use it as a DVR it is very similar to a HR44 and if you use it without the HDD (non DVR) it about the same as a H25.

We include the link to the Solid Signal review because it is very well done by a respected member here. We do not look at each others reviews until they are done to make sure they are different.

Sorry the First Look is not helpful to you, the group that put it together put a lot of effort and time into it. There was a very large group of testers and I'm sure they will be happy to chime in and give their thoughts on the H44.


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## dpeters11

I think what it comes down to, it's another arrow in DirecTV's quiver, to compare to Hawkeye from the Marvel universe. It's really not a good option for someone that wants to update their HR34, in same class not withstanding, they'd want an HR44. If a 34 or 44 needs replaced due to failure, I don't see a situation where they'll get this and a drive.

I personally really do see it used in cases where a new customer isn't interested in DVR, but want to watch live TV from multiple rooms at the same time. In this case, the fact that a client uses a tuner is essentially meaningless. Yes, there is that single point of failure, but honestly, receivers don't go bad all that often, particularly with the power supply external. I think DirecTV would rather do this than H25s.

And if they later decide they want a DVR, they don't have to schedule an installer. They might even be more likely to do the conversion if it's easy like this.


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## yosoyellobo

slice1900 said:


> The advantage to H44 + external hard drive over HR44 is that you could use an external mirroring pair of drives if you are worried about losing your recordings. If/when they remove the 1 TB limitation will be another advantage, as you'll have effectively unlimited storage - no more need to keep extra HR2x around purely for additional storage.
> 
> The advantage over H25s is mainly if you have RVU TVs or future RVU client devices (i.e. Vidipath clients that also support RVU) as there is no external box. It adds flexibility for the customer who can avoid having extra Directv owned devices installed and reduces cost for Directv when the customer choose to use their own. If nothing else, clients are smaller and could be made much smaller if Directv cared to (though I think they'll let the CE market take care of that when Vidipath clients start to roll out)


Are you saying that I could get a H44 and multiple external drives. Sign me up if true.


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## dpeters11

Personally, I don't see that happening. I can just imagine the support calls when something records or doesn't that isn't what the user expects because of the data on the particular drive that's plugged in.


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## Laxguy

harsh said:


> I think DIRECTV is finally grasping that all the power adapters and external boxes were getting to be too much. That said, I'm not sure I like the idea of the analog adapters but the H44 is much about cost (to DIRECTV) reduction.


That certainly shouldn't be of concern to non-subscribers. No worries, mate!


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## slice1900

yosoyellobo said:


> Are you saying that I could get a H44 and multiple external drives. Sign me up if true.


I was talking about adding an external eSATA RAID array that takes multiple drives. It would look as a single really big drive to the Genie.

This assumes they remove the 1 TB limit, and I guess assumes Directv lets customers plug drives they own in, rather than only Directv's drives. I haven't seen anything stating you can't use your own drive either way, presumably one of the reviewers tried this and can confirm?


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## dpeters11

Laxguy said:


> That certainly shouldn't be of concern to non-subscribers. No worries, mate!


To be honest, the power inserter and such isn't much concern to the average subscriber.

It would be nice as one less thing to plug into the UPS though.


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## RunnerFL

yosoyellobo said:


> Are you saying that I could get a H44 and multiple external drives. Sign me up if true.


You can. Would that be supported? No... You can do multiple drives on the HR's now, you just have to reboot with each swap.


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## RunnerFL

slice1900 said:


> I was talking about adding an external eSATA RAID array that takes multiple drives. It would look as a single really big drive to the Genie.
> 
> This assumes they remove the 1 TB limit, and I guess assumes Directv lets customers plug drives they own in, rather than only Directv's drives. I haven't seen anything stating you can't use your own drive either way, presumably one of the reviewers tried this and can confirm?


At this time there are no eSATAp RAID enclosures. With the 1TB limit best I see is a 2 drive RAID1 array, when/if we see eSATAp RAID enclosures.


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## CTJon

bobnielsen said:


> DirecTV at this time only allows one Genie per system.


Do you think the one Genie per system is a technical restriction or lack of avaiable Genie devices?


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## Laxguy

CTJon said:


> Do you think the one Genie per system is a technical restriction or lack of avaiable Genie devices?


Could be either. Could also be a software problem; some have suggested a billing problem with multiple clients. Technical would be my last guess.


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## damondlt

dpeters11 said:


> I believe that HD receivers currently aren't charged the advanced receiver fee, only DVRs.


That's is True, But will that change since this is a Media center?
Something tells me I bet it does.
It's still a whole home service, just not DVR. 
But time will tell.
If I decide to come back I'll take this over the HR54 most definitely. 
Sounds way cooler lol


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## cypherx

Is the hard drive "married" to the H44 when initialized? If the H44 dies and is replaced, but your hard drive is still good, are your recordings intact?

Having 2 drives fail on me (HR24-200), the ability to easily remove the hard drive and still have working television until a new one arrives is a great feature alone. It looks like it's a 2.5" HD enclosure like the WD Passport line. Is that correct?


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## Jacob Braun

cypherx said:


> Is the hard drive "married" to the H44 when initialized? If the H44 dies and is replaced, but your hard drive is still good, are your recordings intact?
> 
> Having 2 drives fail on me (HR24-200), the ability to easily remove the hard drive and still have working television until a new one arrives is a great feature alone. It looks like it's a 2.5" HD enclosure like the WD Passport line. Is that correct?


Yep, the drive follows the receiver and not the account. If the drive is still good you lose recordings when plugging it into the new H44.


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## Alan Gordon

sangs said:


> The external drive cannot exceed 1 TB?! No thank you.


For most people, 1TB is plenty.

I'd be shocked if DirecTV didn't offer multiple storage options in the next 2-3 years, but that's just my opinion.


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## prushing

cypherx said:


> Is the hard drive "married" to the H44 when initialized? If the H44 dies and is replaced, but your hard drive is still good, are your recordings intact?
> 
> Having 2 drives fail on me (HR24-200), the ability to easily remove the hard drive and still have working television until a new one arrives is a great feature alone. It looks like it's a 2.5" HD enclosure like the WD Passport line. Is that correct?


Current DTV controls still exist. With the drive being external and heat not being added to it, it should last. Enclosure is just like any other external 2.5" drive enclosures.


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## syclonedave

Seeing that the external HDD is so small I was hoping it would be solid state. That would be nice.


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## Drew2k

Scott Kocourek said:


> [...] the group that put it together put a lot of effort and time into it. There was a very large group of testers and I'm sure they will be happy to chime in and give their thoughts on the H44.


Having hands-on experience is so important and it's great that there have already been so many questions asked (and answered) by the team that has actually used the H44. Congratulations to the entire First Look team for another great first look!


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## prushing

syclonedave said:


> Seeing that the external HDD is so small I was hoping it would be solid state. That would be nice.


You are looking at $300+ for a cheap 1TB SSD, you would need a higher quality than that though to support the DVR and running 24/7


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## swaff

Scott Kocourek said:


> Sorry the First Look is not helpful to you, the group that put it together put a lot of effort and time into it. There was a very large group of testers and I'm sure they will be happy to chime in and give their thoughts on the H44.


The H44 was my first Genie experience. I have to say that this box exceeded all of my expectations even using it without recording capability. Using it to deliver recorded content from my HR2X boxes via Whole-Home was much smoother and faster than going from one HR2X to another HR2X.

I have since added a wireless client and that experience is also very smooth.


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## dpeters11

prushing said:


> You are looking at $300+ for a cheap 1TB SSD, you would need a higher quality than that though to support the DVR and running 24/7


Yeah, it would need to be an SLC drive and I don't think it's really worth it in this application.


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## Bill Broderick

There was a time (in 1996 before I was a DirecTV customer) when in conjunction with how this will work with RVU TV's, is *exactly* what I wanted from DirecTV. I wanted a single box, that would decode the DirecTV signal and send it to the three TV's in my house, where I could watch them without a receiver in that room, using a single remote to control all the functions of both the TV and receiver.

Since then, DVR's and, more importantly, Harmony, activity based, remote controls have been put on the market, which means that I no longer care about having a separate box for each TV, and I want as many recordable tuners as possible, which is why the only way that I'm switching from a Genie and 2 HR24's is if they allow me to replace a 24 with a second Genie or they create a Genie with a lot more recordable tuners.


----------



## hhawk

Sorry if I missed it. Do owners of some Panasonic and Samsung sets (to mention a couple) still have to steer clear of the 500 series? The Humax models put out color in a different way. The picture looks washed out because our sets are expecting the YCbCR output. Thanks.


----------



## WestDC

So if you already have a genie can you add this (say) to replace a HR22?


----------



## RunnerFL

syclonedave said:


> Seeing that the external HDD is so small I was hoping it would be solid state. That would be nice.


A solid state 1TB drive would cost about 10x's the unit itself. lol


----------



## RunnerFL

hhawk said:


> Sorry if I missed it. Do owners of some Panasonic and Samsung sets (to mention a couple) still have to steer clear of the 500 series? The Humax models put out color in a different way. The picture looks washed out because our sets are expecting the YCbCR output. Thanks.


No problems with my Samsung TV. Then again I don't have problems with my HR24-500 and Samsung either.


----------



## RunnerFL

WestDC said:


> So if you already have a genie can you add this (say) to replace a HR22?


Nope, 1 Genie per account.


----------



## dpeters11

hhawk said:


> Sorry if I missed it. Do owners of some Panasonic and Samsung sets (to mention a couple) still have to steer clear of the 500 series? The Humax models put out color in a different way. The picture looks washed out because our sets are expecting the YCbCR output. Thanks.


I have not noticed any issue with my Panasonic Plasma. I believe that only the HR24-500 had the RGB colorspace.


----------



## dave29

Nice looking job guys!


----------



## prushing

hhawk said:


> Sorry if I missed it. Do owners of some Panasonic and Samsung sets (to mention a couple) still have to steer clear of the 500 series? The Humax models put out color in a different way. The picture looks washed out because our sets are expecting the YCbCR output. Thanks.


No issues on my Samsung and I have the -500 and an older non-500 hooked up to the same TV and don't see any differences


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

Wow! Great job guys/gals :up:


----------



## mexican-bum

CraigerM said:


> I wonder how soon they could make it that small with a hard drive built in? I guess then the hard drive would have to be on a chip?


looks to me like a common 2.5" laptop HDD


----------



## James Long

dpeters11 said:


> Wouldn't one still be paying for the advanced receiver? $15 for a Genie no-DVR isn't any different than $15 for a Genie or $15 for having a DVR (one fee per account for all advanced receivers).
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that HD receivers currently aren't charged the advanced receiver fee, only DVRs.
Click to expand...

New customer prices ... a DVR or Genie adds one $15 charge to the account.
If one gets the H44 plus a DVR (or a H44 or multiple DVRs) they should get the $15 fee.

H44 plus no-DVRs ... I assume DirecTV will charge the $15 advanced receiver fee because the H44 is capable of being a DVR (and whole home?). Charging for capabilities even if they are not used. Which would be cleaner that charging differently for a H44 if it had a HDD attached than if it didn't.


----------



## WERA689

mexican-bum said:


> looks to me like a common 2.5" laptop HDD


Yep, other than the DirecTV logo on the top, it looks like any other 2.5" drive. I'm assuming there's something in the drivers or software that requires a DirecTV flag in order to work properly. In fact, mine is identified as a Seagate Backup Plus Portable Drive on the bottom.


----------



## KyL416

James Long said:


> H44 plus no-DVRs ... I assume DirecTV will charge the $15 advanced receiver fee because the H44 is capable of being a DVR and whole home. Charging for capabilities even if they are not used. Which would be cleaner that charging differently for a H44 if it had a HDD attached than if it didn't.


Plus unless the phone or internet is connected to it, or you have to call DirecTV and notify them about it before it's activated, there would be no way for DirecTV to know if you added the HDD to enable the DVR functions.


----------



## Jacob Braun

James Long said:


> New customer prices ... a DVR or Genie adds one $15 charge to the account.
> If one gets the H44 plus a DVR (or a H44 or multiple DVRs) they should get the $15 fee.
> 
> H44 plus no-DVRs ... *I assume DirecTV will charge the $15 advanced receiver fee because the H44 is capable of being a DVR and whole home*. Charging for capabilities even if they are not used. Which would be cleaner that charging differently for a H44 if it had a HDD attached than if it didn't.


Nope. That's what's great about this. If you have an H44 *without* drive and clients it charges the same as the HD receiver. Only when you buy a hard drive and activate the $15 (or $25, or $10/$10/$3 depending on when your account was active) Advanced Receiver Services do you get the DVR features enabled. If you buy a hard drive and don't have Advanced Receiver Services active it will say something like "Call DIRECTV to Activate Your Genie Lite DVR Kit"


----------



## R8ders2K

Saw no mention of the Wi-Fi or USB specs, is the Wi-Fi 802.11n or ac, 2.4 and/or 5 GHz? Is the USB 2.0 or 3.0? And with respects to no ethernet port, can the an external USB-to-ethernet adapter work...?


----------



## Jacob Braun

R8ders2K said:


> Saw no mention of the Wi-Fi or USB specs, is the Wi-Fi 802.11n or ac, 2.4 and/or 5 GHz? Is the USB 2.0 or 3.0? And with respects to no ethernet port, can the an external USB-to-ethernet adapter work...?


It's .11abgn (so 2.4 and 5GHz)

USB 2.0.

No idea on an external USB to Ethernet adapter but I would suspect no unless one is specifically marketed by D*. It does work with a broadband DECA.


----------



## James Long

Jacob Braun said:


> Nope. That's what's great about this. If you have an H44 with our drive and clients it charges the same as the HD receiver. Only when you buy a hard drive and activate the $15 (or $25, or $10/$10/$3 depending on when your account was active) Advanced Receiver Services do you get the DVR features enabled. If you buy a hard drive and don't have Advanced Receiver Services active it will say something like "Call DIRECTV to Activate Your Genie Lite DVR Kit"


That is good.


----------



## HoTat2

Jacob Braun said:


> It's .11abgn (so 2.4 and 5GHz)
> 
> USB 2.0.
> 
> No idea on an external USB to Ethernet adapter but I would suspect no unless one is specifically marketed by D*.


Bummer, no ethernet port so no built in CCK/MoCA crossover bridge like on the HR34 and HR44 for the wired CCK option.

Back to using external CCK/BB DECAs for that type of internet connection.

Nice first look though. ..

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## NR4P

HoTat2 said:
 

> Bummer, no ethernet port so no built in CCK/MoCA crossover bridge like on the HR34 and HR44 for the wired CCK option.
> 
> Back to using external CCK/BB DECAs for that type of internet connection.
> 
> Nice first look though. ..
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


I have a feeling that there just aren't enough homes with ethernet cables near the main receiver, i.e. Genies so they dropped the port. Wireless or CCK seems to be easier to deal with.


----------



## slice1900

RunnerFL said:


> At this time there are no eSATAp RAID enclosures. With the 1TB limit best I see is a 2 drive RAID1 array, when/if we see eSATAp RAID enclosures.


You can plug an eSATA array into a eSATAp port. Any array beyond maybe a mirror of two lower power drives will require separate power, so making eSATAp arrays is mostly pointless.


----------



## TomCat

syclonedave said:


> Seeing that the external HDD is so small I was hoping it would be solid state. That would be nice.


An SSD is not a good choice for a media drive. Whenever there are large files regularly erased and replaced, or constant recording such as a buffer, an SSD is probably not the drive of choice. They are essentially never used for that purpose professionally. Great boot drive or scratch drive for a consumer PC, but not really what you want here.

Congrats to the first look team.

And congrats to DTV for expending a lot of energy making a product that benefits....themselves. Quite obviously the motivation here is to create a one-size-fits-all product, even though ironically it does not fit a large segment of users at all. All of the benefits seem to be directed towards keeping prices down and simplifying tech support and replacement, and really not in providing any advance in quality, features, or reliability for the end users. There does not seem to be much at all here that would benefit the user beyond what is already offered, unless you consider a step backwards into a 1 TB limit to be progress. Or preventing the use of common and well-tested off-the-shelf eSATA drives.

But this is the first time they have formally embraced X drives; until now it was an "undocumented and unsupported feature", that if they did not have would have sent a lot of us to their competitors.

One genie per? I think that is merely a security issue. Security for....DTV, of course. They don't want anyone building a mini-headend out of genies and distributing it to multiple users. Same thing regarding losing recordings because the drive is married to the DVR; it supports security for...you guessed it...DTV. Always first to serve their customers, right after they serve themseives.


----------



## RunnerFL

slice1900 said:


> You can plug an eSATA array into a eSATAp port.


Doesn't work.


----------



## carl6

With regard to the hard drive, the information that we have at this time indicates the drive must be the size, manufacture and model that is provided by DirecTV, it must be eSATAp, and must use the appropriate eSATAp cable. Whether or not you can source the proper drive other than from DirecTV is unknown. Regardless, you must still have DVR service active on your account to turn an H44 into a DVR, there is no way to "secretly upgrade" yourself. Whether or not a customer with an H44 and a drive not provided by DirecTV could even get them to enable DVR service on your account is also unknown. For speculation and conjecture purposes, I would suggest you speculate that you need to use the DirecTV drive; that other options will not work for you.

If you want larger drives, RAID, or anything else, the H44 is not your system of choice.

My impression is that the H44 is meant to be the basic multi-room install option for any non-DVR new account. It is easily upgraded (without a truck roll) to DVR for those customers that decide they want to add that capability at a later time. Just mail the DVR kit (the HDD and cable) to the customer who plugs it in then calls and adds DVR service to their account. Very cost effective.


----------



## damondlt

1 TB is more than enough for us.
I may consider going without DVR though .
Another question, is there a commitment if you active the DVRs service?


----------



## jagrim

carl6 said:


> My impression is that the H44 is meant to be the basic multi-room install option for any non-DVR new account. It is easily upgraded (without a truck roll) to DVR for those customers that decide they want to add that capability at a later time. Just mail the DVR kit (the HDD and cable) to the customer who plugs it in then calls and adds DVR service to their account. Very cost effective.


Carl,
I think you're spot on this impression.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Vinny

Great job on the First Look. Thanks to all the testers, I know it's not an easy job to test new equipment, but your work helps all directv customers and is greatly appreciated.


----------



## dpeters11

damondlt said:


> 1 TB is more than enough for us.
> I may consider going without DVR though .
> Another question, is there a commitment if you active the DVRs service?


I would expect simply ordering the drive and activating DVR service would not trigger any committment. The H44 itself would have a two year when first activated on the system.


----------



## harsh

Scott Kocourek said:


> I removed or did not include some of the speed references because every time that information is included we get slammed and called fanboys.


For me, the writing style added back any attack potential that leaving benchmarks out might have avoided. Actually, I'm not convinced that technical details (benchmarks or otherwise) are assailable in and of themselves. Flowery superlatives and the DIRECTV-are-freakin'-geniuses tone are indicative of a bias and that's not really what this is about.


> We do not look at each others reviews until they are done to make sure they are different.


I assume that by "different" you mean independent.


> Sorry the First Look is not helpful to you, the group that put it together put a lot of effort and time into it.


It isn't that it wasn't helpful, but I think that leaving out pictures/details of the remote and the power supply and how/whether the unit fits and works with the AM21 is a fairly serious omission as compared to the first looks of the other "truly new products".

Speaking of details, does the DIRECTV eSATAp module have mounting options?


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> It isn't that it wasn't helpful, but I think that leaving out pictures/details of the remote and the power supply and how/whether the unit fits and works with the AM21 is a fairly serious omission as compared to the first looks of the other "truly new products".


It's the same remote and power brick that other units use. No need to repost that info.


----------



## Supramom2000

There is a picture of the remote. It is the same peanut one DTV is using now. Also, the AM21 works fine with the H44. It is much smaller than the AM21 so it can sit on top of it if so chosen.

Hope that helps.


----------



## juniormaj

carl6 said:


> My impression is that the H44 is meant to be the basic multi-room install option for any non-DVR new account. It is easily upgraded (without a truck roll) to DVR for those customers that decide they want to add that capability at a later time. Just mail the DVR kit (the HDD and cable) to the customer who plugs it in then calls and adds DVR service to their account. Very cost effective.


This.

Also worth considering is that if (when) the HDD fails, no surgery (nor complete replacement) is needed. The H44 simply becomes a functioning non-DVR until the new drive arrives from DirecTV. Clients will also continue to function during this wait period. The only thing missing is DVR functionality. Existing recordings will still be toast with a HDD failure, but the system is not dead in the water.
By externalizing the power supply (since the HR44) and now the HDD, they have isolated 2 of the most common failure points to something that most consumers should be comfortable with handling themselves.


----------



## theneuron

To start, much of this is beyond my understanding. I have an HR44-700 with an external 2TB Hard Drive and one mini-client that is seldom used.

Is this meant only to replace the HR44-700, or can it be added to the system?

Would adding an H44, with the external drive allow me to record 5 more shows on that unit while recording 5 on my HR-700?
The way I understand it I would have to set those recordings at the H44, not from the HR44-700 and visa versa. Where could I access the H44 recordings after that? Would my mini-client be able to access all 10 recordings? Could I access the H44 recoedings from the HR440700 and visa versa?

If it is faster, is this only in accessing the hard drive or in processing power? My biggest problem now is that the On Demand functions are often worthless with it taking an entire day or longer to download an hour program. My connection from router to Genie is ethernet (have tried wireless with no change), same as to my computer. Speedtest.net always shows over 60kbps on the computer, but once I got a message on the Genie that my problem trying to watch an On Demand program was because my download speed was too slow at only .53kbps.

So far all DirecTV has for me (other than a paid $50 service call with no solution guaranteed) is the same advice I've been getting on everything ever since computers left DOS for Windows. Turn everything off, disconnect from power for a few minutes, and then turn it back on again. So far no recommendation as to the correct order of turning off or back on again. I never had this problem until I had to replace my Linksys router with a TP-Link AC1750 (Archer C-8). I saw on a forum that someone had solved this by changing settings on their router including opening a different port for the Genie, but it was all way above my skill level. I am afraid to even install the update for my router as they recommend I" reset it after installation and then reenter information from before the update. Right! I estimate it would take me a week to just write down all the info in the router files before updating.

Would replacing the HR4-700 with an H44 help this problem? Though I would hate to give up a TB of storage and lose (presumably) all the recordings I have in the changeover!

Sorry for the long post but I could really use some help.


----------



## RunnerFL

theneuron said:


> To start, much of this is beyond my understanding. I have an HR44-700 with an external 2TB Hard Drive and one mini-client that is seldom used.
> 
> Is this meant only to replace the HR44-700, or can it be added to the system?
> 
> Would adding an H44, with the external drive allow me to record 5 more shows on that unit while recording 5 on my HR-700?
> The way I understand it I would have to set those recordings at the H44, not from the HR44-700 and visa versa. Where could I access the H44 recordings after that? Would my mini-client be able to access all 10 recordings? Could I access the H44 recoedings from the HR440700 and visa versa?
> 
> If it is faster, is this only in accessing the hard drive or in processing power? My biggest problem now is that the On Demand functions are often worthless with it taking an entire day or longer to download an hour program. My connection from router to Genie is ethernet (have tried wireless with no change), same as to my computer. Speedtest.net always shows over 60kbps on the computer, but once I got a message on the Genie that my problem trying to watch an On Demand program was because my download speed was too slow at only .53kbps.
> 
> So far all DirecTV has for me (other than a paid $50 service call with no solution guaranteed) is the same advice I've been getting on everything ever since computers left DOS for Windows. Turn everything off, disconnect from power for a few minutes, and then turn it back on again. So far no recommendation as to the correct order of turning off or back on again. I never had this problem until I had to replace my Linksys router with a TP-Link AC1750 (Archer C-8). I saw on a forum that someone had solved this by changing settings on their router including opening a different port for the Genie, but it was all way above my skill level. I am afraid to even install the update for my router as they recommend I" reset it after installation and then reenter information from before the update. Right! I estimate it would take me a week to just write down all the info in the router files before updating.
> 
> Would replacing the HR4-700 with an H44 help this problem? Though I would hate to give up a TB of storage and lose (presumably) all the recordings I have in the changeover!
> 
> Sorry for the long post but I could really use some help.


You would not be able to have an HR44 and H44 at the same time. Currently DirecTV only allows one Genie per account.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

There would be no benefit in replacing the HR44 with the H44.


----------



## David Ortiz

The H44 also opens up wireless clients for non DVR users.



carl6 said:


> My impression is that the H44 is meant to be the basic multi-room install option for any non-DVR new account. It is easily upgraded (without a truck roll) to DVR for those customers that decide they want to add that capability at a later time. Just mail the DVR kit (the HDD and cable) to the customer who plugs it in then calls and adds DVR service to their account. Very cost effective.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

harsh said:


> For me, the writing style added back any attack potential that leaving benchmarks out might have avoided. Actually, I'm not convinced that technical details (benchmarks or otherwise) are assailable in and of themselves. Flowery superlatives and the DIRECTV-are-freakin'-geniuses tone are indicative of a bias and that's not really what this is about.
> I assume that by "different" you mean independent.
> It isn't that it wasn't helpful, but I think that leaving out pictures/details of the remote and the power supply and how/whether the unit fits and works with the AM21 is a fairly serious omission as compared to the first looks of the other "truly new products".
> 
> Speaking of details, does the DIRECTV eSATAp module have mounting options?


Yes, independent.

We did not receive new remotes with the test units but the H44 uses the same remote as the HR44 Genie, there is a picture of a remote on the last page.

Power supply looks like the rest of the HR44 line.

We did not receive brackets for the HDD but we also got very early units, when the product is ready for release there may or may not be something available.


----------



## peds48

carl6 said:


> My impression is that the H44 is meant to be the basic multi-room install option for any non-DVR new account. It is easily upgraded (without a truck roll) to DVR for those customers that decide they want to add that capability at a later time. Just mail the DVR kit (the HDD and cable) to the customer who plugs it in then calls and adds DVR service to their account. Very cost effective.


A second phone call _may_ not be necessary as they can add the DVR service when the customer calls in first so that when they connect the HDD kit is all ready to go.


----------



## damondlt

dpeters11 said:


> I would expect simply ordering the drive and activating DVR service would not trigger any committment. The H44 itself would have a two year when first activated on the system.


That's kind of what I'm wondering ,if say someone wants to shut off the DVR abilities can they?
Because now the only way is to , "Upgrade" to H25 from a Genie.
Yes I said Upgrade, because directv doesn't let you downgrade without paying and signing another commitment .
People get into financial issues one could benifit from downgrade that could save them $15 per month.


----------



## peds48

David Ortiz said:


> The H44 also opens up wireless clients for non DVR users.


Yep, good call.


----------



## slice1900

RunnerFL said:


> Doesn't work.


Not directly, you need a converter cable which is widely available. They have eSATAp on one end and eSATA and USB on the other end. You'd plug the eSATAp into the H44, the eSATA into your array, and leave the USB unconnected.


----------



## utlimate_ed

TomCat said:


> An SSD is not a good choice for a media drive. Whenever there are large files regularly erased and replaced, or constant recording such as a buffer, an SSD is probably not the drive of choice. They are essentially never used for that purpose professionally. Great boot drive or scratch drive for a consumer PC, but not really what you want here.
> 
> Congrats to the first look team.
> 
> And congrats to DTV for expending a lot of energy making a product that benefits....themselves. Quite obviously the motivation here is to create a one-size-fits-all product, even though ironically it does not fit a large segment of users at all. All of the benefits seem to be directed towards keeping prices down and simplifying tech support and replacement, and really not in providing any advance in quality, features, or reliability for the end users. There does not seem to be much at all here that would benefit the user beyond what is already offered, unless you consider a step backwards into a 1 TB limit to be progress. Or preventing the use of common and well-tested off-the-shelf eSATA drives.
> 
> But this is the first time they have formally embraced X drives; until now it was an "undocumented and unsupported feature", that if they did not have would have sent a lot of us to their competitors.
> 
> One genie per? I think that is merely a security issue. Security for....DTV, of course. They don't want anyone building a mini-headend out of genies and distributing it to multiple users. Same thing regarding losing recordings because the drive is married to the DVR; it supports security for...you guessed it...DTV. Always first to serve their customers, right after they serve themseives.


I have to concur - received an email about this first look. It's been a long time since DTV has come out with something new and this is...underwhelming. Nothing against the First Look team, but it's hard to see this as much of a step forward by DTV in any meaningful way.

If they ever fix their system so that my external hard drive's recordings on my HR34 box are tied to my account and not simply to the particular HR34, then that would be something to get excited about.


----------



## RunnerFL

slice1900 said:


> Not directly, you need a converter cable which is widely available. They have eSATAp on one end and eSATA and USB on the other end. You'd plug the eSATAp into the H44, the eSATA into your array, and leave the USB unconnected.


I'm well aware of the converters.... It still does not work.


----------



## Laxguy

utlimate_ed said:


> I have to concur - received an email about this first look. It's been a long time since DTV has come out with something new and this is...underwhelming. Nothing against the First Look team, but it's hard to see this as much of a step forward by DTV in any meaningful way.
> 
> *Other than the below paragraph, what would you expect to see?*
> 
> If they ever fix their system so that my external hard drive's recordings on my HR34 box are tied to my account and not simply to the particular HR34, then that would be something to get excited about.


It's a management decision, not a broken system. End result is the same, though. That is high on lots of folk's list of desires.


----------



## slice1900

RunnerFL said:


> I'm well aware of the converters.... It still does not work.


You're talking about on an H44? Directv must check the drive and only support their own. There's no reason such a converter wouldn't work otherwise.


----------



## WERA689

I think I said that a few posts back....


----------



## inkahauts

David Ortiz said:


> Isn't double play with a Non DVR H44 just changing channels?


Yeah sorry. It's just pop and pip.


----------



## inkahauts

James Long said:


> Wouldn't one still be paying for the advanced receiver? $15 for a Genie no-DVR isn't any different than $15 for a Genie or $15 for having a DVR (one fee per account for all advanced receivers).


I don't think we have any confirmation either way but I don't believe this will have the advanced receive fee. I believe it will simply be what's used for multiple room Non DVR install.

Actually I think in the long run this is the device they will be using to upgrade people off sd equipment. I would imagine that most SD people don't have DVRs. So this is perfect for them with such a super easy path to go DVR down the road.


----------



## rhsmith

I sure hope it is more reliable than the HR44 Genie is.. I have had 5 of them in under 8 months fail due to over heating.. and NO I do not have the unit inside of a cabinet/enclosure.. it sits ontop of the equiptment unit in free air... They run about 3-4 weeks and then start crashing and locking up or rebooting. I put a small fan alongside the unit and it works just fine for months So I bought a 2 fan laptop cooler, plugged in the USB power to the Genie and set the unit on top of it. My dealer is also a friend and he says this is a major problem with the HR44 units.. Somethinig in the unit is failing after a few weeks of operation.. Too bad because I really love the unit as far as how it works.. I have 4 of the remote nodes and they work well as a system.


----------



## inkahauts

harsh said:


> Perhaps a better question is why a Genie Lite and not a a real Genie or a bunch of H25s. The advantages to the customer seem few (better search, PIP on the HDMI connected TV and the ability to be converted to a Genie).
> 
> Monthly charges being equal and presumably either one being free to new customers, why this? Are they going to add a fourth Advanced Receiver Service price condition?
> 
> I think DIRECTV is finally grasping that all the power adapters and external boxes were getting to be too much. That said, I'm not sure I like the idea of the analog adapters but the H44 is much about cost (to DIRECTV) reduction.


I love how you automatically go the wrong way. While we don't have confirmation yet I expect this to not carry any advanced receiver fee at all and to simply be used as the base product for all
Multi room non DVR systems. I don't believe it'll ever go out the door with a hard drive the day it's installed. I think the hard drive is strictly for future upgrades if someone decides to upgrade after the install. Installer will probably never even see the hard drive kits.

This unit to me is all about upgrading anyone that does not yet have a DVR or Hi Definition and/or is a new customer who does not want DVR right now while giving them more features than they would have ever had before and making it super easier for them and dtv to upgrade them to DVR.


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> The advantage to H44 + external hard drive over HR44 is that you could use an external mirroring pair of drives if you are worried about losing your recordings. If/when they remove the 1 TB limitation will be another advantage, as you'll have effectively unlimited storage - no more need to keep extra HR2x around purely for additional storage.
> 
> The advantage over H25s is mainly if you have RVU TVs or future RVU client devices (i.e. Vidipath clients that also support RVU) as there is no external box. It adds flexibility for the customer who can avoid having extra Directv owned devices installed and reduces cost for Directv when the customer choose to use their own. If nothing else, clients are smaller and could be made much smaller if Directv cared to (though I think they'll let the CE market take care of that when Vidipath clients start to roll out)


I do not see you ever being able to do external raid mirroring. This unit is very particular about its external drive and I just don't see dtv creating one for this unit. Also it's a powered esata port. They don't even make esata powered mirroring drives and I have a feeling this thing won't work with any esata that isn't esata powered.


----------



## inkahauts

J Blow said:


> Ya, maybe...I still see the strength of this unit in simply an ability to add tuners but this certainly provides a platform for the application you speak of.
> 
> Another way I could see this useful is in the adoption of 4k technology as recording space may be easily upgraded as needed.


I don't see that as being the point for this at all. Not even a little.

I think if dtv wanted to go the route of a unit that would be able to add to a genie instead of multiple genies I think they could basically make a hr44 slave that connected via USB or esata or maybe even coax that had additional tuners and a second box to book to that for additional hard drive but the processing and decision making would still happen in the genie itself and it simply look like the genie was a 10 tuner 2 TV unit for example. There'd be no video output from it or anything of that nature.

The only reason I see it being two boxes is so they could then hook up this slave to a genie lite and have lots of tuners for bars etc.

Ok I'll stop dreaming now.....


----------



## inkahauts

harsh said:


> I was hoping for less trade show glitz (especially in stylish prose) and more hands-on impression. It seems to have been released much earlier in the cycle that other first looks of a "truly new product". The Solid Signal version of review does fill in some of the omissions but questions some of the conclusions.
> 
> I would have liked to see some testimony about how snappy it is compared to a comparable H25 configuration (in operation, not just booting) and whether or not hooking up the HD changes the character or performance significantly (over and above losing the ability to program other DVRs). I would have thought that what model remote comes with would have been mentioned.
> 
> I offer these comments in the spirit of critique and not as a slight to those who participated or DIRECTV.


For me it's the equivalent of having four h25s with all the non DVR driven features that a genie has that a h25 doesn't..... Or a genie and three clients (clients are extremely snappy for me.)


----------



## inkahauts

rhsmith said:


> I sure hope it is more reliable than the HR44 Genie is.. I have had 5 of them in under 8 months fail due to over heating.. and NO I do not have the unit inside of a cabinet/enclosure.. it sits ontop of the equiptment unit in free air... They run about 3-4 weeks and then start crashing and locking up or rebooting. I put a small fan alongside the unit and it works just fine for months So I bought a 2 fan laptop cooler, plugged in the USB power to the Genie and set the unit on top of it. My dealer is also a friend and he says this is a major problem with the HR44 units.. Somethinig in the unit is failing after a few weeks of operation.. Too bad because I really love the unit as far as how it works.. I have 4 of the remote nodes and they work well as a system.


Since you are the first I have ever heard say this I have some doubts you don't have some sort of other issue. I'd start a serperate thread and detail how your system is set up and is probably replace the PI if everything else is hooked up right. Something is just off there.


----------



## inkahauts

utlimate_ed said:


> I have to concur - received an email about this first look. It's been a long time since DTV has come out with something new and this is...underwhelming. Nothing against the First Look team, but it's hard to see this as much of a step forward by DTV in any meaningful way.
> 
> If they ever fix their system so that my external hard drive's recordings on my HR34 box are tied to my account and not simply to the particular HR34, then that would be something to get excited about.


Funny I think it's a huge step because I think (purely my speculation) that this box has really three targets...

1. New customers who don't want DVRs. 
2. SD non DVR customers who want to upgrade to Hi Definition without DVR.

And the one that I think that will matter to all of us.... A path for DIRECTV to upgrade older existing subs to mpeg4 equipment at minimal cost so they can start to reclaim the sd spectrum for other uses. I have always thought that something like this in combination with a couple other things will help get the cost to convert older customers low enough to make them actively start to make this move.


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> You're talking about on an H44? Directv must check the drive and only support their own. There's no reason such a converter wouldn't work otherwise.


Yep, it doesn't work.


----------



## NR4P

rhsmith said:


> I sure hope it is more reliable than the HR44 Genie is.. I have had 5 of them in under 8 months fail due to over heating.. and NO I do not have the unit inside of a cabinet/enclosure.. it sits ontop of the equiptment unit in free air... They run about 3-4 weeks and then start crashing and locking up or rebooting. I put a small fan alongside the unit and it works just fine for months So I bought a 2 fan laptop cooler, plugged in the USB power to the Genie and set the unit on top of it. My dealer is also a friend and he says this is a major problem with the HR44 units.. Somethinig in the unit is failing after a few weeks of operation.. Too bad because I really love the unit as far as how it works.. I have 4 of the remote nodes and they work well as a system.


You've got something else wrong in your system somewhere. 
I agree with inkhahauts that you should start a different thread and document your system.


----------



## NR4P

harsh said:


> It isn't that it wasn't helpful, but I think that leaving out pictures/details of the remote and the power supply and how/whether the unit fits and works with the AM21 is a fairly serious omission as compared to the first looks of the other "truly new products".


The FL did state the product supports the AM21 and it does work well. There aren't any other AM21 features such as scanning supported here vs. other Genies.

But the AM21 is 2x-3x the size of the new H44, even with HDD.


----------



## djousma

I read the thread, and reread the firstlook document, didnt notice but what version of HDMI does it have? Is it possible this box could support 4K broadcasts via HDMI connection?


----------



## J Blow

Has anyone with one of these units tried to clone the hard drive to another commercial unit?


----------



## dpeters11

djousma said:


> I read the thread, and reread the firstlook document, didnt notice but what version of HDMI does it have? Is it possible this box could support 4K broadcasts via HDMI connection?


I would plan on 4K with the H44 being the same as the HR44.


----------



## HoTat2

J Blow said:


> Has anyone with one of these units tried to clone the hard drive to another commercial unit?


What would be the point?

If DIRECTV has implemented a proprietary HDD ID system which allows the use only their supplied drives a cloned drive won't work anyway.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## RunnerFL

J Blow said:


> Has anyone with one of these units tried to clone the hard drive to another commercial unit?


The drives are still not interchangeable between units. You can clone the drive but the clone, like the original, would only be usable on the unit the recordings were made on.


----------



## harsh

WERA689 said:


> In fact, mine is identified as a Seagate Backup Plus Portable Drive on the bottom.


That should put to rest any theories about high performance drives being necessary to support a Genie.


----------



## harsh

KyL416 said:


> Plus unless the phone or internet is connected to it, or you have to call DirecTV and notify them about it before it's activated, there would be no way for DirecTV to know if you added the HDD to enable the DVR functions.


A reminder that the H44 has no phone connection.


----------



## Alan Gordon

theneuron said:


> If it is faster, is this only in accessing the hard drive or in processing power? My biggest problem now is that the On Demand functions are often worthless with it taking an entire day or longer to download an hour program. My connection from router to Genie is ethernet (have tried wireless with no change), same as to my computer. Speedtest.net always shows over 60kbps on the computer, but once I got a message on the Genie that my problem trying to watch an On Demand program was because my download speed was too slow at only .53kbps.


Are you on dial-up?


----------



## harsh

inkahauts said:


> Funny I think it's a huge step because I think (purely my speculation) that this box has really three targets...
> 
> 1. New customers who don't want DVRs.
> 2. SD non DVR customers who want to upgrade to Hi Definition without DVR.
> 
> And the one that I think that will matter to all of us.... A path for DIRECTV to upgrade older existing subs to mpeg4 equipment at minimal cost so they can start to reclaim the sd spectrum for other uses. I have always thought that something like this in combination with a couple other things will help get the cost to convert older customers low enough to make them actively start to make this move.


There is an important fourth use: commercial accounts (wherein DVR service is not an option).

I'm not sure it is the best approach, but it is right up the H44's alley.


----------



## harsh

djousma said:


> I read the thread, and reread the firstlook document, didnt notice but what version of HDMI does it have?


This detail was not present. The Solid Signal first look speculates that it is HDMI 1.4.


> Is it possible this box could support 4K broadcasts via HDMI connection?


A hard drive is required for the current DIRECTV UHD offerings.

If the silicon at the center is the same as that of the HR44, it is not capable of rendering UHD.


----------



## harsh

NR4P said:


> The FL did state the product supports the AM21 and it does work well.


The first look stated only that the H44 included USB for use with the AM21.


----------



## Laxguy

harsh said:


> The first look stated only that the H44 included USB for use with the AM21.


Sorry if I am dense here, but what does this statement change or add to the quote of NR4P?


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> The first look stated only that the H44 included USB for use with the AM21.


And how is that not saying the AM21 works?


----------



## yosoyellobo

Alan Gordon said:


> Are you on dial-up?


You needed two telephone lines if I remember correctly.


----------



## slice1900

inkahauts said:


> Funny I think it's a huge step because I think (purely my speculation) that this box has really three targets...
> 
> 1. New customers who don't want DVRs.
> 2. SD non DVR customers who want to upgrade to Hi Definition without DVR.
> 
> And the one that I think that will matter to all of us.... A path for DIRECTV to upgrade older existing subs to mpeg4 equipment at minimal cost so they can start to reclaim the sd spectrum for other uses. I have always thought that something like this in combination with a couple other things will help get the cost to convert older customers low enough to make them actively start to make this move.


Also, no need to bother with firmware upgrades for the H2x/HR2x line any longer since the vast majority of new customers will get a Genie.


----------



## slice1900

harsh said:


> There is an important fourth use: commercial accounts (wherein DVR service is not an option).
> 
> I'm not sure it is the best approach, but it is right up the H44's alley.


Only for very small accounts like a doctor's office, until there are models with a lot more tuners available and/or multiple Genies are allowed on an account.


----------



## Alan Gordon

yosoyellobo said:


> You needed two telephone lines if I remember correctly.


???????


----------



## mrknowitall526

slice1900 said:


> Also, no need to bother with firmware upgrades for the H2x/HR2x line any longer since the vast majority of new customers will get a Genie.


Except for all of us who still have older models with an HR34 or 44 in the mix. The H44 will never see any of these homes unless their current Genie fails, and DTV replaces it with one of these.


----------



## damondlt

mrknowitall526 said:


> Except for all of us who still have older models with an HR34 or 44 in the mix. The H44 will never see any of these homes unless their current Genie fails, and DTV replaces it with one of these.


Why would you want one of these if you have the HR44?

I would say it would be simple to get the H44 if you have a current HR34/44.
If you are out of your contract and have an Upgrade and tell them you no longer want DVR.
If you already have clients, they won't want to take them all back and replace them with H25s.


----------



## mrknowitall526

damondlt said:


> Why would you want one of these if you have the HR44?
> 
> I would say it would be simple to get the H44 if you have a current HR34/44.
> If you are out of your contract and have an Upgrade and tell them you no longer want DVR.
> If you already have clients, they won't want to take them all back and replace them with H25s.


I don't want one! But the OP said there's no need to continue firmware updates for old models, but I beg to differ.


----------



## Yakuman

J Blow said:


> So, this basically confirms that the future is all server/client with a single primary host unit and this allows for that to happen without needing DVR services to be part of it? Makes sense.
> 
> Well that was needless excitement.


The downside that when the master Genie goes down, all the mini clients are down as well. So don't swap your H24s and H25s for a Genie Mini.


----------



## dorfd1

peds48 said:


> Yep, good call.


do the wireless clients use your existing wireless network?


----------



## Smuuth

dorfd1 said:


> do the wireless clients use your existing wireless network?


No, wireless clients require a DIRECTV Wireless Video Bridge which has its own wireless network.


----------



## dpeters11

mrknowitall526 said:


> I don't want one! But the OP said there's no need to continue firmware updates for old models, but I beg to differ.


Genies will definitely diverge featurewise from the hx2x line. They already have, but it will continue. If there ever is a UI change, it'll be like the H20.


----------



## mrknowitall526

dpeters11 said:


> Genies will definitely diverge featurewise from the hx2x line. They already have, but it will continue. If there ever is a UI change, it'll be like the H20.


I've never seen an H20, what's the issue?


----------



## dpeters11

mrknowitall526 said:


> I've never seen an H20, what's the issue?


Not Whole Home compatible, never got the UI update. Those are the big things at least. It wasn't just software, I think the processor was different from the HR20, didn't have an ethernet port to plug in a DECA.


----------



## cypherx

slice1900 said:


> Only for very small accounts like a doctor's office, until there are models with a lot more tuners available and/or multiple Genies are allowed on an account.


Good call. At my dentist office in the lobby is a H21 with HD. But the LCD TV's above each dentist chair is fed from an SD box as seen by the poor picture quality and old blue/white guide when they ask me what channel I want and change it.


----------



## slice1900

mrknowitall526 said:


> Except for all of us who still have older models with an HR34 or 44 in the mix. The H44 will never see any of these homes unless their current Genie fails, and DTV replaces it with one of these.


Millions still have SD boxes in 2015, that didn't stop them from discontinuing new features for those years ago. They will invest in what they consider their future direction, which is Genie, not in the H2x/HR2x past they are leaving behind.


----------



## inkahauts

mrknowitall526 said:


> I don't want one! But the OP said there's no need to continue firmware updates for old models, but I beg to differ.


Older models are mature. They are basically set in stone now and likely will not receive much more than stability updates from now on. They don't have anything left in the tank to give us new features. Genies do... So that's where new stuff will come along. I don't know what it is at this point that you could possibly expect them to really do with the older models that they could handle very well?

I see this new h44 as the one that ends the entire line of non genies in terms of advancement because it basically allows them to offer a DVR or a non DVR just like they need, but for the first time ever both those options will be genies.

Not that they have really added anything to the h25 in the last few years... Or the hr2xs either other than the whole start over and such but that's really an on demand feature not so much a DVR feature.


----------



## mrknowitall526

inkahauts said:


> Older models are mature. They are basically set in stone now and likely will not receive much more than stability updates from now on. They don't have anything left in the tank to give us new features. Genies do... So that's where new stuff will come along. I don't know what it is at this point that you could possibly expect them to really do with the older models that they could handle very well?
> 
> I see this new h44 as the one that ends the entire line of non genies in terms of advancement because it basically allows them to offer a DVR or a non DVR just like they need, but for the first time ever both those options will be genies.
> 
> Not that they have really added anything to the h25 in the last few years... Or the hr2xs either other than the whole start over and such but that's really an on demand feature not so much a DVR feature.


Stability updates is what I meant. Even if they don't add new features (and I agree I'm sure they won't), I'd at least hope they would continue with basic updates to fix major bugs, etc. (Although I don't really know of any).

The only "New" feature I'd really want them to do is add season and episode number info to the descriptions. Others have said before that its really processor intensive, but I don't get why ... I have seen much older and crappier cable boxes show that info (like the typical cheap Motorola SD box). I think it's just a matter of getting the info from somewhere.


----------



## cypherx

If it's a space issue, remove mediashare on the 2x line and replace it with Season / Episode. Heck they removed mediashare from the more powerful genies so this will sort of level the playing field.


----------



## HoTat2

mrknowitall526 said:


> Stability updates is what I meant. Even if they don't add new features (and I agree I'm sure they won't), I'd at least hope they would continue with basic updates to fix major bugs, etc. (Although I don't really know of any).
> 
> The only "New" feature I'd really want them to do is add season and episode number info to the descriptions. Others have said before that its really processor intensive, but I don't get why ... I have seen much older and crappier cable boxes show that info (like the typical cheap Motorola SD box). I think it's just a matter of getting the info from somewhere.


+1

Hey look, I can appreciate that DIRECTV may want to move totally to server-client systems for the home. But what for the few of us where that topology just won't work?. Right now we have 6 HD-DVRs (a Genie and 5 HR2Xs) distributed among 6 adults and 1 teenager now living here, and no family veiwing room save for a breakfast room eating area just off the kitchen where we have placed a DVR.

Outside this breakfast room everyone always goes to their own bedrooms for TV watching and needs their own HD-DVR there.

No one wants, nor can reasonably use clients here since at a minimum one tuner is almost always being used at each 6 TV locations. This min. tuner requirement then quickly goes up when individuals start recording on one (or more for the Genie) channels while veiwing another.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## slice1900

HoTat2 said:


> Hey look, I can appreciate that DIRECTV may want to move totally to server-client systems for the home. But what for the few of us where that topology just won't work?. Right now we have 6 HD-DVRs (a Genie and 5 HR2Xs) distributed among 6 adults and 1 teenager now living here, and no family veiwing room save for a breakfast room eating area just off the kitchen where we have placed a DVR.


Obviously the "Genie Lite" isn't the end of the Genie story. Before the H2x/HR2x are removed as an option to order, they will add multiple/bigger Genies or some sort of 'super client' like Dish has that has tuners and takes the H44's hard drive as an add-on to allow building bigger systems. While customers with more than 4 rooms are a minority they won't ignore you. They are just taking care of the majority first, now they need to tackle the (lucrative for Directv's bottom line) outliers like you, Rich and commercial guys like me.

But it doesn't make sense to add features to the H2x/HR2x line any more. At least you don't have to worry about firmware upgrades breaking anything while you're waiting for that better Genie solution


----------



## dpeters11

Yeah, we've had forum members that stay with the older receivers partly due to the fact that they don't change. Of course some had MPG units, so that particular ride is over.


----------



## Supramom2000

I still have an R22!! Slower than molasses but it uses HD and is only in the guest room. Don't want to pay to get a better DVR when it is hardly ever used anyway. I do love the H44 for it's small footprint. I wish we could get multiple H44s!!


----------



## inkahauts

mrknowitall526 said:


> Stability updates is what I meant. Even if they don't add new features (and I agree I'm sure they won't), I'd at least hope they would continue with basic updates to fix major bugs, etc. (Although I don't really know of any).
> 
> The only "New" feature I'd really want them to do is add season and episode number info to the descriptions. Others have said before that its really processor intensive, but I don't get why ... I have seen much older and crappier cable boxes show that info (like the typical cheap Motorola SD box). I think it's just a matter of getting the info from somewhere.


There's a big difference in showing the season episode info and doing something with it. Plus they added the all seasons record feature with it. That's Boolean based I believe and you do not want anything Boolean based on a non genie. They just sit for a minute sometimes thinking when you use booleans on them.

I think the h44 shows they are thinking about things from a more modular way. Which I hope means something coming down the line to fix the one genie per account issue. Even if it is just multiple
Genies.


----------



## mrknowitall526

inkahauts said:


> There's a big difference in showing the season episode info and doing something with it. Plus they added the all seasons record feature with it. That's Boolean based I believe and you do not want anything Boolean based on a non genie. They just sit for a minute sometimes thinking when you use booleans on them.
> 
> I think the h44 shows they are thinking about things from a more modular way. Which I hope means something coming down the line to fix the one genie per account issue. Even if it is just multiple
> Genies.


I don't really want all the seasons searching and all that, just tell me what episode number it is and call it a day.


----------



## dpeters11

Supramom2000 said:


> I still have an R22!! Slower than molasses but it uses HD and is only in the guest room. Don't want to pay to get a better DVR when it is hardly ever used anyway. I do love the H44 for it's small footprint. I wish we could get multiple H44s!!


When I said older receivers, I was referring to ones like the old RCA and didn't want a "newfangled" D12


----------



## harsh

cypherx said:


> If it's a space issue, remove mediashare on the 2x line and replace it with Season / Episode. Heck they removed mediashare from the more powerful genies so this will sort of level the playing field.


Space to store programs is decidedly different than space to store guide data.

At some point you find that the reason people are hanging on to their old equipment is because it does the things they want to do that the new equipment doesn't. Taking that away without offering an alternative may be the final straw. I know a couple of people that updated to the Genie because it would scan OTA channels. Now that that leak has been fixed, the Genie isn't all that in their mind. Consider also the plight of the TiVo user.


----------



## Laxguy

harsh said:


> Space to store programs is decidedly different than space to store guide data.
> 
> At some point you find that the reason people are hanging on to their old equipment is because it does the things they want to do that the new equipment doesn't.


Maybe a few. Mostly it's inertia.


----------



## yosoyellobo

Alan Gordon said:


> ???????


What was the maximum speed on dail-up? If it was 54k I miss remember.


----------



## rmmccann

yosoyellobo said:


> What was the maximum speed on dail-up? If it was 54k I miss remember.


56k, but 40-50k was the real-world due to phone line quality.


----------



## harsh

Laxguy said:


> Maybe a few. Mostly it's inertia.


At the true end of the cycle, it is mostly those hanging on. Inertia carries the middle.

Again, look at the TiVotees for evidence of this.


----------



## Laxguy

harsh said:


> Again, look at the TiVotees for evidence of this.


Thanks, but no thanks!


----------



## Alan Gordon

yosoyellobo said:


> What was the maximum speed on dail-up? If it was 54k I miss remember.


As rmmccann stated, it was 56k. I was kind of joking about the dial-up. My money's on him being a Windstream DSL customer.

I still don't get the comment about the two lines though?


----------



## VABlitz

So, I understand this is for first time DirecTV customers, but it is not what I have been looking for. An upgraded HR44 with a raided or backup drive is what is needed. I could remove my other three HR2x's if my HR44 had a backup drive. 

Also, an upgrade to the H2x platform would have been nice. While I understand the point of the Clients, those of us with space for a normal receiver lose tuners by using a client...worthless in my book unless the clients don't count as an extra receiver...but unfortunately they still charge me the $6.50 for my wireless client even though it uses my HR44's tuner. 

So, while it's not for me, I can see what it's for, but there were other replacements that were needed before this came out.


----------



## yosoyellobo

Alan Gordon said:


> As rmmccann stated, it was 56k. I was kind of joking about the dial-up. My money's on him being a Windstream DSL customer.
> 
> I still don't get the comment about the two lines though?


I believe that you could use two telephone lines to combine them to get double the 54k. I was considering getting an extra line when DSL was announced.


----------



## rmmccann

yosoyellobo said:


> I believe that you could use two telephone lines to combine them to get double the 54k. I was considering getting an extra line when DSL was announced.


That's called bonding (often dubbed "shotgunning"). It's something you can still do today with newer (and faster) connections, however all it does it double your available bandwidth, it doesn't make things twice as fast.


----------



## dpeters11

Right, at least depending on your equipment, it basically meant you had two 56k connections. Some created a logical connection for truer 112k.


----------



## RunnerFL

rmmccann said:


> That's called bonding (often dubbed "shotgunning"). It's something you can still do today with newer (and faster) connections, however all it does it double your available bandwidth, it doesn't make things twice as fast.


That depends on how you setup the bond and corresponding lag.


----------



## mrdobolina

Thanks for the great First Look everyone!



Alan Gordon said:


> For most people, 1TB is plenty.
> 
> I'd be shocked if DirecTV didn't offer multiple storage options in the next 2-3 years, but that's just my opinion.


With the new DIRECTV branded hard drive for the H44, I wouldn't be surprised if this is perhaps a way for them to test the waters on their way to full immersion in the branded hard drive pool. Also, maybe that is what it will take for them to change from external hard drives linked to receivers over to external hard drives linked to accounts?


----------



## compnurd

Really wish they would move on from the One Genie per account issue.. This would be perfect to replace my HR24


----------



## rmmccann

RunnerFL said:


> That depends on how you setup the bond and corresponding lag.


Absolutely, but I don't believe the op was referring to bonding using LACP or another aggregation protocol. The equipment and costs associated are far outside the reach of your average consumer.

I see a lot of basic bonding in the third world with WISPs. They'll use a bunch of ADSL or Cable connections to aggregate resources and provide services to dozens or more customers. I guess it could more appropriately be referred to as load balancing, but the premise is the same.


----------



## harsh

VABlitz said:


> An upgraded HR44 with a raided or backup drive is what is needed. I could remove my other three HR2x's if my HR44 had a backup drive.


Keep in mind that if the HR44 must be replaced for any reason, all satellite recordings will be lost. Of course this won't be a long putt as you'll have to give up all your HR2x recordings to get there.


----------



## RunnerFL

rmmccann said:


> Absolutely, but I don't believe the op was referring to bonding using LACP or another aggregation protocol. The equipment and costs associated are far outside the reach of your average consumer.
> 
> I see a lot of basic bonding in the third world with WISPs. They'll use a bunch of ADSL or Cable connections to aggregate resources and provide services to dozens or more customers. I guess it could more appropriately be referred to as load balancing, but the premise is the same.


There are quite a few "home" switches on the market now with LACP support and OSX and Linux support several versions of bonding. I would no longer say "far outside the reach of your average consumer".


----------



## harsh

rmmccann said:


> The equipment and costs associated are far outside the reach of your average consumer.


Given that Diamond(Supra) developed the "shotgun" technology, it wasn't purely the domain of large enterprises.

Modem Bonding was available in Windows 95 and didn't require a "shotgun ISP". In fact, it wasn't necessary that the modems be connected to the same ISP.

It could get hairy if you wanted to specify the link costs but otherwise it is pretty much automatic.


----------



## carl6

:backtotop
This thread is about the H44, not about internet connectivity, speeds, or bandwidth.


----------



## damondlt

Was there any word on an official release date?


----------



## peds48

damondlt said:


> Was there any word on an official release date?


"soon" !rolling


----------



## inkahauts

damondlt said:


> Was there any word on an official release date?


Nah none as of yet. I'm guessing itll be a little while longer.


----------



## NR4P

I wonder what the first markets will be?


----------



## bakers12

NR4P said:


> I wonder what the first markets will be?


It would be nice if they would start in Chicago. I'd like to swap out an old HR20 for one of these.


----------



## slice1900

bakers12 said:


> It would be nice if they would start in Chicago. I'd like to swap out an old HR20 for one of these.


Why would you want this instead of a HR44? If you already have a Genie, you can't add the H44 to your account...


----------



## dpeters11

Yeah, I personally wouldn't try to ge this over an HR44. Don't get me wrong, I like it, but if going with a Genie DVR from the beginning, there really is no huge use case to get this instead of an HR44.


----------



## Smuuth

dpeters11 said:


> Yeah, I personally wouldn't try to ge this over an HR44. Don't get me wrong, I like it, but if going with a Genie DVR from the beginning, there really is no huge use case to get this instead of an HR44.


&#8230;Unless you want to put it out of sight behind your wall-mounted TV in the bedroom.


----------



## harsh

Smuuth said:


> &#8230;Unless you want to put it out of sight behind your wall-mounted TV in the bedroom.


Since this would necessarily involve using an RF remote, there's no reason you couldn't hide the Genie somewhere nearby and not have your TV hanging another few inches out off the wall. HDMI cables are considerably slimmer than RG6 nowadays and wireless is not an option for feeding satellite to the H44.


----------



## peds48

slice1900 said:


> Why would you want this instead of a HR44? If you already have a Genie, you can't add the H44 to your account...


You can't choose between an HR44 and H44. If you get DVR service, you will get an HR34/44. If you don't get DVR service you get an H44. All depends what service you order a the POS


----------



## HoTat2

peds48 said:


> You can't choose between an HR44 and H44. If you get DVR service, you will get an HR34/44. If you don't get DVR service you get an H44. All depends what service you order a the POS


But I wonder if it will still be an extention of the same policy where now "a Genie is a Genie is a Genie." So and even if you have the slow-pokey HR34, DIRECTV will not consider it an upgrade to swap it for a DVR enabled H44 with HDD?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## Jacob Braun

HoTat2 said:


> But I wonder if it will still be an extention of the same policy where now "a Genie is a Genie is a Genie." *So and even if you have the slow-pokey HR34, DIRECTV will not consider it an upgrade to swap it for a DVR enabled H44 with HDD?*
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Correct.

Although if I had to have one HD-DVR I would choose the H44 over the HR44 because if the H44 *hard drive* dies I could still use my clients for live TV until a new hard drive arrived.


----------



## HoTat2

Jacob Braun said:


> Correct.
> 
> Although if I had to have one HD-DVR I would choose the H44 over the HR44 because if the H44 *hard drive* dies I could still use my clients for live TV until a new hard drive arrived.


Oh wow .... man, ... my HR34 has really become a curse.

I'm stuck with it short of buying an HR44 or now an H44+HDD from a third party seller. 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## NR4P

Jacob Braun said:


> Correct.
> 
> Although if I had to have one HD-DVR I would choose the H44 over the HR44 because if the H44 *hard drive* dies I could still use my clients for live TV until a new hard drive arrived.


I like that reasoning. But I still use Caller ID with my HR44 so the HR44 wins. But if it wasn't for CID, then I'd go with the H44 too. Why have the larger box, there is a significant size difference between the H and HR 44 models.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

One other advantage the H44 has over the others is that it has no fan, less possible noise. The fan on my HR44s rarely run so it's not a huge deal but in a bedroom less is always better.


----------



## Jacob Braun

Scott Kocourek said:


> One other advantage the H44 has over the others is that it has no fan, less possible noise. The fan on my HR44s rarely run so it's not a huge deal but in a bedroom less is always better.


This too! Although I would imagine the disadvantage (over time) is going to turn out to be that the smaller laptop hard drive is less durable/more prone to failure.


----------



## Smuuth

harsh said:


> Since this would necessarily involve using an RF remote, there's no reason you couldn't hide the Genie somewhere nearby and not have your TV hanging another few inches out off the wall. HDMI cables are considerably slimmer than RG6 nowadays and wireless is not an option for feeding satellite to the H44.


Using the RC7x remotes in RF mode is actually the preferred method since they have to be in RF mode in order to be programmed for a TV or an audio system. I can assure you that mounting an H44 behind a wall-mounted TV does not necessitate "your TV hanging another few inches out off the wall."


----------



## Laxguy

Scott Kocourek said:


> One other advantage the H44 has over the others is that it has no fan, less possible noise. The fan on my HR44s rarely run so it's not a huge deal but in a bedroom less is always better.


Really? Is that what she said??

!rolling


----------



## slice1900

Jacob Braun said:


> Although if I had to have one HD-DVR I would choose the H44 over the HR44 because if the H44 *hard drive* dies I could still use my clients for live TV until a new hard drive arrived.


I wonder if the software on the HR34/HR44 will be updated so the same is true for those? Or does it require not just having the hard drive go bad but physically disconnecting the hard drive for the H44 to get into receiver mode?


----------



## bobnielsen

slice1900 said:


> I wonder if the software on the HR34/HR44 will be updated so the same is true for those? Or does it require not just having the hard drive go bad but physically disconnecting the hard drive for the H44 to get into receiver mode?


I suppose it depends on the nature of the failure, but if the receiver recognizes the drive (working or not) it will probably go to DVR mode.


----------



## Shades228

Jacob Braun said:


> Correct.
> 
> Although if I had to have one HD-DVR I would choose the H44 over the HR44 because if the H44 *hard drive* dies I could still use my clients for live TV until a new hard drive arrived.


I'm betting this becomes part of the unified Genie code regardless of model.


----------



## mexican-bum

I just saw on the other forum HR44 and newer will eventually get the GenieGo capability built in.

"DirecTV Everywhere Awareness Campaign Highlights:
DirecTV Everywhere is expanding to include GenieGO capability in all HR44 and newer Genie servers! This new capability will enhance the DirecTV Everywhere experience! 
· Enhancements are expected late this year into early next year and will include beta testing and phased deployments. "

Looks like the old HR34 is finally going to stop being updated with the latest and greatest, hopefully this will eventually turn into a way to upgrade an HR34 to a HR44 or H44.


----------



## HoTat2

mexican-bum said:


> I just saw on the other forum HR44 and newer will eventually get the GenieGo capability built in.
> 
> "DirecTV Everywhere Awareness Campaign Highlights:
> DirecTV Everywhere is expanding to include GenieGO capability in all HR44 and newer Genie servers! This new capability will enhance the DirecTV Everywhere experience!
> · Enhancements are expected late this year into early next year and will include beta testing and phased deployments. "
> 
> Looks like the old HR34 is finally going to stop being updated with the latest and greatest, hopefully this will eventually turn into a way to upgrade an HR34 to a HR44 or H44.


Saw that notice too, but due the "other forum's" penchant for unreliable reporting, took it with a grain of salt.

So if true, what does this mean? That the current HR44s already have Geniego transcoders built in and will receive firmware updates to activate them?

Or is this for a future model revision of the HR44?

Either way though, I agree, great news! if it will finally offer an upgrade path to the HR44 from the -34.

But now watch DIRECTV likely close off this potential avenue by making a policy that if you have an HR34 and want the Geniego feature, you must simply buy the separate standalone unit. 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## mexican-bum

HoTat2 said:


> Saw that notice too, but due the "other forum's" penchant for unreliable reporting, took it with a grain of salt.
> 
> So if true, what does this mean? That the current HR44s already have Geniego transcoders built in and will receive firmware updates to activate them?
> 
> Or is this for a future model revision of the HR44?
> 
> Either way though, I agree, great news! if it will finally offer an upgrade path to the HR44 from the -34.
> 
> But now watch DIRECTV likely close off this potential avenue by making a policy that if you have an HR34 and want the Geniego feature, you must simply buy the separate standalone unit.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Ya it may or may not be true but I sure hope it is.


----------



## dpeters11

HoTat2 said:


> Saw that notice too, but due the "other forum's" penchant for unreliable reporting, took it with a grain of salt.
> 
> So if true, what does this mean? That the current HR44s already have Geniego transcoders built in and will receive firmware updates to activate them?
> 
> Or is this for a future model revision of the HR44?
> 
> Either way though, I agree, great news! if it will finally offer an upgrade path to the HR44 from the -34.
> 
> But now watch DIRECTV likely close off this potential avenue by making a policy that if you have an HR34 and want the Geniego feature, you must simply buy the separate standalone unit.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


This is absolutely how it would go. The HR34 doesn't have builtin wifi, you can't use that as a reason to get a 44. HR20-HR23 doesn't have built in DECA but you can't use that to get an HR24. You can use the 3D issue (though I don't know if there are any left) to get a 24, but there is no external box that makes a 20-23 compatible. Same with the H20 and Whole Home, though there you could wind up with just an H21.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Laxguy said:


> Really? Is that what she said??
> 
> !rolling


----------



## slice1900

HoTat2 said:


> Saw that notice too, but due the "other forum's" penchant for unreliable reporting, took it with a grain of salt.


Whether the capability is added to the HR44 or not doesn't change matters if the HR54 has it. It will be one more thing newer Genies have that older ones don't, but Directv will continue to consider them all the same as they did with the HR2x line. Hopefully they won't make those with older Genies pay for the GenieGo if that capability is built in to newer ones, and instead give them away to customers who ask like they do with wireless with HR34 customers.

Maybe that's why someone on the other site posted a photo of a HR54 with a SWM-7 input but their "first look" shows a SWM-5 input. Directv didn't want to make it a "real upgrade". I wouldn't be surprised if it uses a BCM4528 SoC, which has 8 demodulators on board. Going from SWM-7 to SWM-5 was just a cosmetic change to the box, the hardware didn't change; two tuners were disabled in software to make it the "same" as the older Genies and reduce the whining. Maybe someday a software update for the HR54 will "magically" add a couple extra tuners! :sure:


----------



## harsh

HoTat2 said:


> That the current HR44s already have Geniego transcoders built in and will receive firmware updates to activate them?


Based on the facts that the competitor's DVRs have had a similar feature (PocketDISH) for years and DIRECTV promoted DIRECTV2Go for a while, I suspect whatever was needed has been there since the HR20 debuted. I think the bigger issue was support for USB Mass Storage that they've kept pretty well locked down and now they're using networking to continue to avoid it.


----------



## HoTat2

harsh said:


> Based on the facts that the competitor's DVRs have had a similar feature (PocketDISH) for years and DIRECTV promoted DIRECTV2Go for a while, I suspect whatever was needed has been there since the HR20 debuted. I think the bigger issue was support for USB Mass Storage that they've kept pretty well locked down and now they're using networking to continue to avoid it.


From what I hear, the Genie with the integrated Geniego is supposed to be Directv's answer to the "competitor's" (or Dish's) Hopper with Sling.

But the Hopper with Sling requires an ungrade a different and later model doesn't it? It wasn't upgraded to Sling capabilty with a firmware update was it?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## dpeters11

HoTat2 said:


> From what I hear, the Genie with the integrated Geniego is supposed to be Directv's answer to the "competitor's" (or Dish's) Hopper with Sling.
> 
> But the Hopper with Sling requires an ungrade a different and later model doesn't it? It wasn't upgraded to Sling capabilty with a firmware update was it?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Right, Hopper and Hopper with Sling is different hardware. I think even the Netflix functionality is only on the Sling version.


----------



## dennisj00

harsh said:


> Space to store programs is decidedly different than space to store guide data.
> 
> At some point you find that the reason people are hanging on to their old equipment is because it does the things they want to do that the new equipment doesn't. Taking that away without offering an alternative may be the final straw. I know a couple of people that updated to the Genie because it would scan OTA channels. Now that that leak has been fixed, the Genie isn't all that in their mind. Consider also the plight of the TiVo user.


I don't know anyone that has a clue about OTA. Most of them have no clue about the DVR they have - or could have.


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## HoTat2

dennisj00 said:


> I don't know anyone that has a clue about OTA. Most of them have no clue about the DVR they have - or could have.


Yep;

For example, not to appear immodest, but out of the 5 adults and one teenager that live here right now, I'm the only one that has a clue about how DIRECTV works technically.

And no doubt most other DIRECTV households don't even have that much ...

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## dpeters11

dennisj00 said:


> I don't know anyone that has a clue about OTA. Most of them have no clue about the DVR they have - or could have.


Exactly. We're the geeks that spend time on a forum talking about receivers, LNBs and all the various aspects. Most people just watch TV, the smart ones come here when they want an answer about something


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## Supramom2000

dpeters11 said:


> Exactly. We're the geeks that spend time on a forum talking about receivers, LNBs and all the various aspects. Most people just watch TV, the smart ones come here when they want an answer about something


And stay because of how great everyone here is.


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## Kentstater

So let me get this straight.
I have a HR-34 and C-31, and my contract is up July 7th.
They wont let me upgrade to a HR-44 and a C-41 because they can't guarantee a Hr-44 on the truck.

If I wait till the H-44 comes out, I would have to say I don't want the DVR (HDD) to get that unit.
Is that correct?


----------



## peds48

Kentstater said:


> So let me get this straight.
> I have a HR-34 and C-31, and my contract is up July 7th.
> They wont let me upgrade to a HR-44 and a C-41 because they can't guarantee a Hr-44 on the truck.


Correct, but is not because they can't guarantee what is on the truck, is more because there is no path to upgrade from a Genie to another Genie


----------



## harsh

Kentstater said:


> They wont let me upgrade to a HR-44 and a C-41 because they can't guarantee a Hr-44 on the truck.


Not at all.

DIRECTV doesn't consider a Genie to Genie (or Genie Mini to Genie Mini, regardless of model number) an upgrade. It is same-for-same as far as they're concerned.

I would imagine that they _would_ allow you to add a Genie Mini (who knows what model) and delete the C31 shortly thereafter. Obviously, you can't do this with the HR34 as you cannot add a Genie. Now that I think about it, this could be part of the reasoning behind not allowing multiple Genies.


----------



## HoTat2

peds48 said:


> Correct, but is not because they can't guarantee what is on the truck, is more because there is no path to upgrade from a Genie to another Genie


Ok, how about if I have an HR34 and claim to want the H44 with HDD to mount behind the TV for the aesthetics of having a hidden Genie. Might DIRECTV consider that an upgrade? 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## prushing

HoTat2 said:


> Ok, how about if I have an HR34 and claim to want the H44 with HDD to mount behind the TV for the aesthetics of having a hidden Genie. Might DIRECTV consider that an upgrade?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


No, but you could talk to the installer and reschedule if they didn't have one, but DTV will not say you will get a certain model.


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## HoTat2

prushing said:


> No, but you could talk to the installer and reschedule if they didn't have one, but DTV will not say you will get a certain model.


Buy why I wonder?

I understand trying to go from an HR34 to an HR44. But if you ask to exchange the HR34 for an H44+HDD because you want to replace the big boxey HR34 for a Genie behind the TV out of sight along with its associated cables. I don't see how DIRECTV wouldn't consider that a legitimate type of upgrade.

How can DIRECTV claim that "a Genie is a Genie" in this case?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## peds48

prushing said:


> No, but you could talk to the installer and reschedule if they didn't have one, but DTV will not say you will get a certain model.


A WO will specify wether is a Genie or Genie lite, they are NOT interchangeable, at least at launch time. If a customer has a 44 and the tech confirms is a HDD issue, DIRECTV® will drop ship a hard drive. Of course, what should happen is the call center should determine this without a truck roll to mines down time.


----------



## peds48

HoTat2 said:


> How can DIRECTV claim that "a Genie is a Genie" in this case?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Is confusing with the H44, but the Genie is a Genie wont apply in this case.


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## Scott Kocourek

Who knows? Maybe there will be a way to upgrade at some point.


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## Laxguy

The Shadow knows..........


----------



## Shades228

HoTat2 said:


> Buy why I wonder?
> 
> I understand trying to go from an HR34 to an HR44. But if you ask to exchange the HR34 for an H44+HDD because you want to replace the big boxey HR34 for a Genie behind the TV out of sight along with its associated cables. I don't see how DIRECTV wouldn't consider that a legitimate type of upgrade.
> 
> How can DIRECTV claim that "a Genie is a Genie" in this case?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


You're not changing anything functionality wise. You're talking about aesthetics. The only time they will ever put in a specific replacement will be if it's something that cannot be done at all by the current model (including add on devices such as a GenieGo II or CCK).



peds48 said:


> Is confusing with the H44, but the Genie is a Genie wont apply in this case.


In the post you replied to it will count as a Genie is a Genie so he won't be able to order one.


----------



## peds48

Shades228 said:


> In the post you replied to it will count as a Genie is a Genie so he won't be able to order one.


that is exactly what I meant. If a genie is a genie, he could of get a tech to replace it, but that won't apply in this case.

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## harsh

Shades228 said:


> You're not changing anything functionality wise. You're talking about aesthetics.


You're dismissing several features (apparently including GenieGo at some level) as well as speed that are exclusive to the HR44 and that's not fair.


----------



## slice1900

harsh said:


> You're dismissing several features (apparently including GenieGo at some level) as well as speed that are exclusive to the HR44 and that's not fair.


He specifically said "functionality". There's nothing you can do with a HR44 that a HR34 can't do, with the additional of a WCCK. If the capability for GenieGo is added to HR44 or comes with HR54, the same will be true with the addition of a GenieGo. Maybe it takes a bit longer to respond to the remote, but performance isn't the same thing as functionality.


----------



## inkahauts

harsh said:


> You're dismissing several features (apparently including GenieGo at some level) as well as speed that are exclusive to the HR44 and that's not fair.





slice1900 said:


> He specifically said "functionality". There's nothing you can do with a HR44 that a HR34 can't do, with the additional of a WCCK. If the capability for GenieGo is added to HR44 or comes with HR54, the same will be true with the addition of a GenieGo. Maybe it takes a bit longer to respond to the remote, but performance isn't the same thing as functionality.


Yep. Spot on Slice, Harsh needs to reread what he said.


----------



## NR4P

While the GG capability is thus far alleged from other posts and some public comments, what remains to be seen if true, is how this is implemented. Transcoding content takes alot of CPU power and while I think it is a great idea to include it in Genies, if the performance of the Genie is compromised (i.e. it gets slower) the external GG box may prove to be better.

Time will tell if the H44 featured here will have it as well as other products and how they will perform.


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## dpeters11

The closest we've really come to upgrades within class for functionality were pretty much with the Hx20. Want to watch 3D programming, you could get an upgrade, which may have been a downgrade if you got an HR21. Or replacement of an H20 for 3D or Whole Home compatibility.


----------



## harsh

slice1900 said:


> He specifically said "functionality". There's nothing you can do with a HR44 that a HR34 can't do, with the additional of a WCCK. If the capability for GenieGo is added to HR44 or comes with HR54, the same will be true with the addition of a GenieGo. Maybe it takes a bit longer to respond to the remote, but performance isn't the same thing as functionality.


I was under the impression that there were apps that were HR44 specific. If not, then I suppose that with another good chunk of investment in four or more component parts, you can assemble a franken-34 that approaches the functionality of the HR44.


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## dennisj00

It's possible the GG functionality is a separate SOC / memory and would have the added speed of transcode straight from the H44 disk.


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## HoTat2

harsh said:


> I was under the impression that there were apps that were HR44 specific. If not, then I suppose that with another good chunk of investment in four or more component parts, you can assemble a franken-34 that approaches the functionality of the HR44.


What are the "four or more component parts" needed?

I have an HR34, a Geniego (v.1), and a CCK-W (wired hookup, WiFi disabled), in my setup. Giving the HR34 all the functionality of the HR44, except for the speed atvantage of course.

So that's only two components, so what are the other 2+ ones required?

And what's more DIRECTV gave them both to me for free ... 

Though I admit they were gratuities for being a very long term customer going on 20 years now. 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## mexican-bum

HoTat2 said:


> What are the "four or more component parts" needed?
> 
> I have an HR34, a Geniego (v.1), and a CCK-W (wired hookup, WiFi disabled), in my setup. Giving the HR34 all the functionality of the HR44, except for the speed atvantage of course.
> 
> So that's only two components, so what are the other 2+ ones required?
> 
> And what's more DIRECTV gave them both to me for free ...
> 
> Though I admit they were gratuities for being a very long term customer going on 20 years now.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


I suppose the only other thing missing to make them functionally equivalent is optical audio out, the adapters are fairly cheap though and work well. Not sure if directv provides them or not though.....


----------



## damondlt

HoTat2 said:


> Ok, how about if I have an HR34 and claim to want the H44 with HDD to mount behind the TV for the aesthetics of having a hidden Genie. Might DIRECTV consider that an upgrade?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


I would think you can just say, I don't want to pay for DVR anymore. And take your upgrade to the H44.
If you have a Genie, and a couple clients, they are not going to take all your clients back , and put H25s everywhere.
That would be 4 upgrades at once in my house.
They are going to just swap the HR34 and stick in the H44.

But something tells me that H44 is going to come with the $15 fee.
I almost have not doubt.


----------



## inkahauts

damondlt said:


> I would think you can just say, I don't want to pay for DVR anymore. And take your upgrade to the H44.
> If you have a Genie, and a couple clients, they are not going to take all your clients back , and put H25s everywhere.
> That would be 4 upgrades at once in my house.
> They are going to just swap the HR34 and stick in the H44.
> 
> But something tells me that H44 is going to come with the $15 fee.
> I almost have not doubt.


Your doubts are likely off. I don't see an advanced receiver fee for a h44 setup. Will be interesting to see who's guessing right. 

But realistically then you'd need to turn around and order a hard drive which I bet is about $100 so why bother? You might as well just order a hr44 from solid signal and replace your HR34 if you want that kind of upgrade. It is a lot simpler than playing games IMHO.

There is really no scenario where a h44 is an upgrade to a HR34. Especially since we know if they wanted to they could simply shut off the DVR function on the account. I would hope that it would then act like a h44. But who knows. It may simply lose all DVR functions but keep the longer guide. Not sure on that. But I have seen them shut off DVR on an account and leave the hr2x equipment in someone's home.

Also I know if the HR34 is that bad (I believe some are better than others) then if you go about it right you can get a credit on your account to pay for one via solid signal. So again is play that game before the h44 game.

The h44 is great but it's not meant to replace any existing genies.


----------



## James Long

damondlt said:


> But something tells me that H44 is going to come with the $15 fee.
> I almost have not doubt.


Asked and answered:



Jacob Braun said:


> Nope. That's what's great about this. If you have an H44 *without* drive and clients it charges the same as the HD receiver. Only when you buy a hard drive and activate the $15 (or $25, or $10/$10/$3 depending on when your account was active) Advanced Receiver Services do you get the DVR features enabled. If you buy a hard drive and don't have Advanced Receiver Services active it will say something like "Call DIRECTV to Activate Your Genie Lite DVR Kit"


----------



## Laxguy

harsh said:


> I was under the impression that there were apps that were HR44 specific. If not, then I suppose that with another good chunk of investment in four or more component parts, you can assemble a franken-34 that approaches the functionality of the HR44.


Did you feel any discomfort before posting this useful speculation?? ????


----------



## damondlt

James Long said:


> Asked and answered:


Okay and whom is Jacob ?
Does he send out the official word, on pricing for directv?

Inky;
Also if you have a Genie you can't tell directv you no longer want DVR service.
It doesn't work like that. 
You would have to turn in your Genie in order to drop that $15 fee.
And you would also have to "Upgrade " to and H25.

So again there is no path to drop the $15 Advanced receiver fee unless the Genie is turned in.
And for some with 3 or 4 C3,4s clients , that would not be cost effective at all since only 1 free upgrade is allowed per 24 months.
NOT 4.

The H44 would change this.
It would be a single swap, and would lower your bill by $15 without costing you a cent in upgrade lease fees.
That could cost a 4 room system $300 to swap a HR34, and 3 Clients for 4 H25s through the current system.

It's a poor system when it comes to equipment downgrades.

If I was going to entertain the idea of signing up with Directv I would demand the H44. Seems more flexible in function and fees.
IF there is no $15 Advanced receiver fee. 
Until I see an official update of all the lease fees, terms and agreements that include the H44, I'm certainly going to take Jacobs post with a grain of salt.
No offense.
You can tell me "I told you so" later.


----------



## unixguru

Just a year ago many strongly argued that we would never see any modularization like this. (See http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/212139-what-is-there-to-look-forward-to/) I was not one of them. So even DTV eventually folds to logic - sometimes.

Maybe they will keep going on this path of enlightenment and come out with a RAID1 option. Yes, I know it can't be powered by the eSATAp port - no different than RAID add-ons for Macs or PCs that don't use USB power; extra power supply is fine.

At the rate they are going they will probably finally reach the level of hardware I want when I'm pulling the plug due to programming costs!


----------



## damondlt

unixguru said:


> At the rate they are going they will probably finally reach the level of hardware I want when I'm pulling the plug due to programming costs!


Agree, I'm already thinking about pulling the plug.
A serious re ajustment is needed in the TV world .


----------



## RunnerFL

damondlt said:


> Okay and whom is Jacob ?


A trusted source.


----------



## harsh

HoTat2 said:


> What are the "four or more component parts" needed?


You're forgetting the power supplies for the GG and CCW.


----------



## HoTat2

harsh said:


> You're forgetting the power supplies for the GG and CCW.


Oh, ... well ... if you're going to get that technical on the meaning of "adding compoments" then you would have count the HR44 as a step backwards from the HR34 since it has a separate external power brick. 

And I think you can see that would be frankly ridiculous. ..

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## naturetaz

I am so sick of Directv they refuse to give me a upgrade to the Genie system. I have asked them several times to let me upgrade as an existing customer and they say no you have to pay for the up[grade.


----------



## HoTat2

naturetaz said:


> I am so sick of Directv they refuse to give me a upgrade to the Genie system. I have asked them several times to let me upgrade as an existing customer and they say no you have to pay for the up[grade.


How long have you been a customer and have you tried going through the Customer Retention Dept.?

Also you have a double post. Try to delete one ...

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## inkahauts

And what is your system now Naturetaz?


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## MysteryMan

naturetaz said:


> I am so sick of Directv they refuse to give me a upgrade to the Genie system. I have asked them several times to let me upgrade as an existing customer and they say no you have to pay for the up[grade.


DIRECTV is not "refusing" to upgrade you to the Genie. They are saying you are not eligible for a "free upgrade" at this time. You can still upgrade to a Genie but will have to pay for the upgrade.


----------



## Kentstater

Any further information on the definition of "soon"


----------



## studechip

Kentstater said:


> Any further information on the definition of "soon"


According to a poster at Satguys, the H44 will be officially launched on July 9th.


----------



## dpeters11

But offically launched could be in certain test markets. Plus what the basic criteria will be to actually get one from DirecTV.


----------



## twizt3dkitty

It's National from what information I have.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## inkahauts

And I don't see this being made available to anyone that has dvr service already.... I expect it will be for new or sd only customers moving up the chain to hd non dvr... But we will see.


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## MysteryMan

inkahauts said:


> And I don't see this being made available to anyone that has dvr service already.... I expect it will be for new or sd only customers moving up the chain to hd non dvr... But we will see.


Agree.


----------



## twizt3dkitty

MysteryMan said:


> Agree.


Ill confirm that as true.

Sent from my K013 using Tapatalk


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## studechip

So if you are like me, with an HR20 and HR24, you won't be able to add an H44 to the mix?


----------



## bakers12

If you have an ordinary 8-tuner dish setup, you'll need to change to a SWM-16 to handle all the tuners. The installer will do that as part of the installation.


----------



## peds48

studechip said:


> So if you are like me, with an HR20 and HR24, you won't be able to add an H44 to the mix?


Why would you want the H44 if you already have DVR service? You can easily get an HR44.....


----------



## carl6

studechip said:


> So if you are like me, with an HR20 and HR24, you won't be able to add an H44 to the mix?





peds48 said:


> Why would you want the H44 if you already have DVR service? You can easily get an HR44.....


Exactly. The H44 is the intro Genie without DVR that can later be upgraded to DVR. You already have DVR service so just get an HR44. Functionally, the H44 with external drive is essentially the same as an HR44 with internal drive. Also, I don't think the H44 is actually available yet either.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

peds48 said:


> Why would you want the H44 if you already have DVR service? You can easily get an HR44.....


Why would anyone not want a DVR though? Thats what I don't understand. Besides recording your favorite shows, being able to pause live TV and rewinding something you missed is one of the best things about having a DVR.


----------



## jimmie57

TheRatPatrol said:


> Why would anyone not want a DVR though? Thats what I don't understand. Besides recording your favorite shows, being able to pause live TV and rewinding something you missed is one of the best things about having a DVR.


HD receivers are faster than the DVR,
HD receivers have Auto Tune,
HD receivers don't get all those banners telling you to record a program,
HD receivers are cheaper to get,
HD receivers only do not have to pay the DVR fee every month,
Those are things my son says along with "it's cable, it will be on again so who needs to record it".

I love the DVRs and wish I had more tuners.


----------



## MysteryMan

jimmie57 said:


> HD receivers are faster than the DVR,
> HD receivers have Auto Tune,
> HD receivers don't get all those banners telling you to record a program,
> HD receivers are cheaper to get,
> HD receivers only do not have to pay the DVR fee every month,
> Those are things my son says along with "it's cable, it will be on again so who needs to record it".
> 
> I love the DVRs and wish I had more tuners.


Why don't you upgrade to a Genie?


----------



## jimmie57

MysteryMan said:


> Why don't you upgrade to a Genie?


I am a tightwad. I don't want to pay for the whole home, especially since my son does not want his hooked to it if I had it put in.


----------



## studechip

peds48 said:


> Why would you want the H44 if you already have DVR service? You can easily get an HR44.....


Maybe the cost is less, and I may not need the extra recording ability. Also, the need to pay for whole home with an H44 hasn't been determined yet, not that I know of anyways. It's required with an HR44.


----------



## peds48

studechip said:


> Maybe the cost is less, *and I may not need the extra recording ability*. Also, the need to pay for whole home with an H44 hasn't been determined yet, not that I know of anyways. It's required with an HR44.


then get an HD box. An H44 without HDD and without WH is just a plain HD box.


----------



## peds48

studechip said:


> *Maybe the cost is less, *and I may not need the extra recording ability. Also, the need to pay for whole home with an H44 hasn't been determined yet, not that I know of anyways. It's required with an HR44.


Whatever saving you might get, it is out the door by the time you want to get hard drive.


----------



## studechip

peds48 said:


> then get an HD box. An H44 without HDD and without WH is just a plain HD box.


an hd box only feeds one television. Maybe I want more.


----------



## studechip

peds48 said:


> Whatever saving you might get, it is out the door by the time you want to get hard drive.


What if I don't want a hard drive for the H44 because I don't need the extra recording capacity, LIKE I SAID.


----------



## peds48

studechip said:


> an hd box only feeds one television. Maybe I want more.


So you are paying DVR service and yet are willing to take a crippled Genie.... :sure:


----------



## dpeters11

studechip said:


> Maybe the cost is less, and I may not need the extra recording ability. Also, the need to pay for whole home with an H44 hasn't been determined yet, not that I know of anyways. It's required with an HR44.


I wouldn't expect the Whole Home requirement to be any different with the H44.


----------



## studechip

peds48 said:


> So you are paying DVR service and yet are willing to take a crippled Genie.... :sure:


A "crippled" Genie? So you have used one and are telling us it has deficiencies?


----------



## peds48

studechip said:


> A "crippled" Genie? So you have used one and are telling us it has deficiencies?


Crippled in regards that in you have an H44 and clients with no HDD, they are just HD boxes, but you already have DVR service. It saves nothing a month but it cripples the experience.


----------



## peds48

dpeters11 said:


> I wouldn't expect the Whole Home requirement to be any different with the H44.


DIRECTV® does not charge for WH any more. If you get an H44 plus clients you wont be charged the "advanced receiver" fee. That fee is only charged after you get a HDD

Edit: I think you mean for existing subs. For those subs with legacy billing, I think they would be a WH fee regardless of HDD or not. So if someone goes from 4 SD boxes to an H44 and 3 clients, their bill will increase by $13. $10 for HD plus $3 for WH


----------



## harsh

studechip said:


> What if I don't want a hard drive for the H44 because I don't need the extra recording capacity, LIKE I SAID.


In an of itself, the H44 only serves one television with optional PIP. Absent RVU clients, its additional tuners are wasted as they cannot be recorded or viewed live on an old school (WHDS) DVR. Serving up wireless clients is something the H44 has in its arsenal but I'm guessing that it can't serve up WHDS homed RVU sessions without the DVR conversion.

As I've suggested before, the H44 might find significant application in commercial settings (where recording isn't allowed) but as an extension to an existing WHDS system, it is mostly tying up SWiM channels.


----------



## damondlt

harsh said:


> In an of itself, the H44 only serves one television with optional PIP. Absent RVU clients, its additional tuners are wasted as they cannot be recorded or viewed live on an old school (WHDS) DVR. Serving up wireless clients is something the H44 has in its arsenal but I'm guessing that it can't serve up WHDS homed RVU sessions without the DVR conversion.
> 
> As I've suggested before, the H44 might find significant application in commercial settings (where recording isn't allowed) but as an extension to an existing WHDS system, it is mostly tying up SWiM channels.


I thought Clients can still be used with the H44 in addtional rooms....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## peds48

harsh said:


> In an of itself, the H44 only serves one television with optional PIP. Absent RVU clients, its additional tuners are wasted as they cannot be recorded or viewed live on an old school (WHDS) DVR. Serving up wireless clients is something the H44 has in its arsenal but *I'm guessing that it can't serve up WHDS homed RVU sessions without the DVR conversion*.
> 
> As I've suggested before, the H44 might find significant application in commercial settings (where recording isn't allowed) but as an extension to an existing WHDS system, it is mostly tying up SWiM channels.


You guess is utterly incorrect! The H44 can serve RVU sessions without the added HDD, wether those are RVU TVs or home brew RVU DIRECTV® clients.


----------



## inkahauts

harsh said:


> In an of itself, the H44 only serves one television with optional PIP. Absent RVU clients, its additional tuners are wasted as they cannot be recorded or viewed live on an old school (WHDS) DVR. Serving up wireless clients is something the H44 has in its arsenal but I'm guessing that it can't serve up WHDS homed RVU sessions without the DVR conversion.
> 
> As I've suggested before, the H44 might find significant application in commercial settings (where recording isn't allowed) but as an extension to an existing WHDS system, it is mostly tying up SWiM channels.


The h44 can have clients without DVR service or a hard drive.

It also can work in an Whole Home Service environment and allow it and its clients to playback programs from other DVRs even when it isn't a DVR.

Why anyone would ever be in that situation before they allow multiple genesis is beyond me but it can do it.


----------



## inkahauts

peds48 said:


> DIRECTV does not charge for WH any more. If you get an H44 plus clients you wont be charged the "advanced receiver" fee. That fee is only charged after you get a HDD
> 
> Edit: I think you mean for existing subs. For those subs with legacy billing, I think they would be a WH fee regardless of HDD or not. So if someone goes from 4 SD boxes to an H44 and 3 clients, their bill will increase by $13. $10 for HD plus $3 for WH


Yeah if they have another DVR on their system. If they replace a DVR with a genie lite (which I don't know if that will be allowed really) and have no DVRs then I don't see the price going up.

Anymore today that "Whole Home Service" fee for older accounts is really just a higher DVR fee that still isn't as high as the real current DVR fee by $2.


----------



## harsh

inkahauts said:


> It also can work in an Whole Home Service environment and allow it and its clients to playback programs from other DVRs even when it isn't a DVR.


Apparently I guessed wrong. I figured that the H44 was going to need to buffer WHDS sessions to turn them around as RVU sessions.


----------



## James Long

harsh said:


> Apparently I guessed wrong. I figured that the H44 was going to need to buffer WHDS sessions to turn them around as RVU sessions.


Perhaps it would be best to go back a couple hundred posts and read the beginning of the thread.


----------



## Laxguy

Or belly up and subscribe to DIRECTV®. You know you wanna, harsh!


----------



## carl6

harsh said:


> Apparently I guessed wrong. I figured that the H44 was going to need to buffer WHDS sessions to turn them around as RVU sessions.


Root cause analysis. It is far better to speak from experience than speculation.


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## peds48

carl6 said:


> Root cause analysis. It is far better to speak from experience than speculation.


Or

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK

Right on!


----------



## carl6

Just heard a rumor the H44 will launch tomorrow (Wednesday). Keep your eyes open.


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## peds48

carl6 said:


> Just heard a rumor the H44 will launch tomorrow (Wednesday). Keep your eyes open.


Hmmm, the "book" says the 9th. Perhaps ordering starts tomorrow to be installed the next day if available. Beats ordering the Apple Watch, ordered on the 10th, got it on 30th.... :rotfl:


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## jimmie57

peds48 said:


> Hmmm, the "book" says the 9th. Perhaps ordering starts tomorrow to be installed the next day if available. Beats ordering the Apple Watch, ordered on the 10th, got it on 30th.... :rotfl:


Solid Signal shows it on their site for $90. The hard drive has to be purchased from DirecTV.


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## peds48

jimmie57 said:


> Solid Signal shows it on their site for $90. The hard drive has to be purchased from DirecTV.


Exactly, order today and by the time you get it will the 9th. BTW, the price changed to $99


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## studechip

peds48 said:


> Hmmm, the "book" says the 9th. Perhaps ordering starts tomorrow to be installed the next day if available. Beats ordering the Apple Watch, ordered on the 10th, got it on 30th.... :rotfl:


What book is that?


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## inkahauts

Now we need to find out how much the hard drive is then.


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## damondlt

studechip said:


> What book is that?


The "non" installer book.

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## damondlt

It also says Advanced Receiver fee applies.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk








Now one could argue and say they are talking about with added hard drive, but I will point out its stated in a seperate line from the DVR statement, and is posted in the same heading as the addtional room fees.

So ......


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## jimmie57

1. Does anybody know what the price of the drive is from DTV ? I can not find it on their site.

2. Why won't other drives work ? Is it the _eSataP_ connection ? Do they have some special software on it already ?


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## MysteryMan

jimmie57 said:


> 1. Does anybody know what the price of the drive is from DTV ? I can not find it on their site.
> 
> 2. Why won't other drives work ? Is it the PeSata connection ? Do they have some special software on it already ?


Per Solid Signal's Hands On Review DIRECTV H44 Genie Lite, page 4, paragraph 1..."The drive actually seems to be a off-the shelf Seagate model with slight modifications to the connector".


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## damondlt

So, anyone order one, or get one yet?

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## HoTat2

damondlt said:


> So, anyone order one, or get one yet?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


And has anyone found out the cost yet of the ext. HDD for the H44 from DIRECTV?

Also, does the advanced receiver fee still apply even without upgrading it to a DVR?

Or are they, particularly the first level CSRs, clueless as might be expected, on both these issues?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## harsh

HoTat2 said:


> And has anyone found out the cost yet of the ext. HDD for the H44 from DIRECTV?


If the price difference between the H44+HD and the HR44 is only a few Hamiltons, I'm not sure there should be much excitement given that you can significantly expand the storage capacity of the HR44 and have all the usual outputs.

The one bright star is that there isn't an H34 that you can get stuck with. 


> Also, does the advanced receiver fee still apply even without upgrading it to a DVR?


Solid Signal seems committed to the idea.

Weaknees, the other retailer that is talking about the H44, isn't letting on. Surely they're not excited as the expansion options, their bread and butter, would appear to be non-existent.

As an aside, I note that DIRECTV is oddly absent from Best Buy's list of Pay TV carriers.


----------



## damondlt

There is no way they are not charging that Advanced Receiver fee. 
And I'm even taking it a step further and betting that fee, will be $15 for H44 without Hardrive.
And if you have a hardrive added or have the HR44, they will be raising that fee back up $20 or more per month.
I bet that's why existing customers are still no getting a discount.
Any takers?



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## slice1900

damondlt said:


> There is no way they are not charging that Advanced Receiver fee.
> And I'm even taking it a step further and betting that fee, will be $15 for H44 without Hardrive.


Wanna bet? There is no way they are charging that fee simply for having a H44. The advanced receiver fee was created as the combination of the HD fee, the DVR fee and the whole home fee. If you get a H44 without a hard drive and have no DVRs on your account, you have HD service, but no DVR service and no whole home - there are no DVRs to watch recordings on from other TVs.

No one would EVER get the H44 + clients if it having it added $15 to your bill while having an equivalent number of H25s cost the same but doesn't add $15.


----------



## damondlt

Yes I do want to bet. Because it's already stated at solid signal.

But even though directv says no fee, do you really think that will not change come February?
When more and more people start getting it installed.
Same thing happen to the HR34, no change in fees right off the bat, than bam! A $5 increase.

And people aren't going to have a choice, because it's the same now, you can get a Genie with 3 clients for free, but you can't get 4 HD Dvrs for free.

Well you'll be able to get the H44 and 3 clients for free, but I bet they will stop that 4 H25 for free.

If you have 1 room of service, you'll be able to get the H25, but if you have more that 2, I bet you will be forced into the H44.

Just like you are forced into a Genie setup when more than 1 room is selected.

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## damondlt

Just found it for $99 upfront cost. The Minis are free.
No price on hard drive.

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## James Long

On DirecTV's website, ordering through their cart system one can select the "Genie Lite" without a $15 fee ... BUT when one goes to add a Mini the fee is noted:
"All equipment is leased. Advanced Receiver Service ($15/mo). A monthly fee of $6.50 applies for each receiver and/or Genie Mini/DIRECTV-ready TV/Device on your account."








(One needs to select "see more equipment options" from the step that offers equipment based on the number of rooms in order to get the selections for regular receivers, non-Genie DVRs, Tivo and Genie Lite.)


----------



## damondlt

James Long said:


> On DirecTV's website, ordering through their cart system one can select the "Genie Lite" without a $15 fee ... BUT when one goes to add a Mini the fee is noted:
> "All equipment is leased. Advanced Receiver Service ($15/mo). A monthly fee of $6.50 applies for each receiver and/or Genie Mini/DIRECTV-ready TV/Device on your account."
> 
> (One needs to select "see more equipment options" from the step that offers equipment based on the number of rooms in order to get the selections for regular receivers, non-Genie DVRs, Tivo and Genie Lite.)


I saw that too.
Did yours say $99?
And as soon as you make it a 2 room system, your H25 is replaced with a Genie Lite.
$99 for 2nd H25, free Mini.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## James Long

damondlt said:


> I saw that too.
> Did yours say $99?


Yes ...
(See attachment in my post above.)

One note from the Genie Lite description:
"This latest-generation HD receiver can be easily upgraded to a Genie HD DVR in the future with a Genie Lite HD DVR Kit (sold separately). Please note: If you want full HD DVR capabilities now, please order the Genie HD DVR."

Popup: "If you decide to upgrade to an HD DVR in the future, sign in to your online DIRECTV account to purchase the Genie Lite HD DVR Kit."


----------



## damondlt

I wonder what that cost.
The DVR upgrade kit?

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## slice1900

James Long said:


> On DirecTV's website, ordering through their cart system one can select the "Genie Lite" without a $15 fee ... BUT when one goes to add a Mini the fee is noted:
> "All equipment is leased. Advanced Receiver Service ($15/mo). A monthly fee of $6.50 applies for each receiver and/or Genie Mini/DIRECTV-ready TV/Device on your account."


If that's the case, and they won't give you H25s for free but will give clients for free, why does the H44 exist? Since it would cost the same to have 2-4 rooms whether get a HR44 or H44 both upfront and ongoing, why would anyone want the non-DVR option?


----------



## harsh

slice1900 said:


> If that's the case, and they won't give you H25s for free but will give clients for free, why does the H44 exist?


I'm still convinced that its primary value is in commercial installations where DVR functionality is not offered.


----------



## James Long

slice1900 said:


> If that's the case, and they won't give you H25s for free but will give clients for free, why does the H44 exist? Since it would cost the same to have 2-4 rooms whether get a HR44 or H44 both upfront and ongoing, why would anyone want the non-DVR option?


A good question ... are there environments where people want multiple rooms with the simplicity of a client (including TV clients) but want to avoid DVR capability? I could see that in a commercial environment - but if residential subscribers are going to pay the $15 fee they might as well take the plunge and get a DVR somewhere in the mix.


----------



## damondlt

slice1900 said:


> If that's the case, and they won't give you H25s for free but will give clients for free, why does the H44 exist? Since it would cost the same to have 2-4 rooms whether get a HR44 or H44 both upfront and ongoing, why would anyone want the non-DVR option?


Because I bet they are plotting on raising the HR fees. 
Advanced Receiver Fee
And 
Advanced Receiver Fee w/DVR

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## inkahauts

I'll take at least part of that bet. I don't see them having tow different charges ever again. 

Also I don't know why anyone thinks this box is really targets at all new customers. It's targeted at hardly any new customers IMHO. I'd bet that of their new customers the number wanting non DVRs is closer to 10% than 40%. 

Maybe a little target for business as harsh said (yikes) but I believe this box is really much more about the ending of mpeg2. They need a super cheap box to build to replace old customers at some point. This is that box. I doubt hardly any SD only users have DVRs in their system. Most I would imagine are already Hi Definition.


----------



## damondlt

I would agree with you except one thing.
One room with H25 is free.
Than its $99 for each addtional. 
If you pick a 4 room HD setup, you get the Genie Lite and 3 Clients for free.

So yes I do think it's targeted at New Customers just the same as any new Receiver. 

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## slice1900

inkahauts said:


> Also I don't know why anyone thinks this box is really targets at all new customers. It's targeted at hardly any new customers IMHO. I'd bet that of their new customers the number wanting non DVRs is closer to 10% than 40%.
> 
> Maybe a little target for business as harsh said (yikes) but I believe this box is really much more about the ending of mpeg2. They need a super cheap box to build to replace old customers at some point. This is that box. I doubt hardly any SD only users have DVRs in their system. Most I would imagine are already Hi Definition.


This would be a terrible box for SD upgrades, if it raises their bill by $15 for a "free upgrade". SD customers would be the most price sensitive, they'd leave Directv in droves if they were faced with being forced to take new equipment that causes a $15 increase in monthly bill. Maybe it is a sort of arbitrage, trading the $10 HD fee they can hardly charge someone they force to upgrade to HD (who will say they don't want it) for another fee.

For all I know, maybe Directv wants to lose the cheapskates. It'll be pretty obvious who they are - the ones Directv has to force off SD only installs when they announce a sunset date for MPEG2.


----------



## James Long

damondlt said:


> So yes I do think it's targeted at New Customers just the same as any new Receiver.


It is an option ... but the primary push on the website is DVRs and the regular Genie. One has to go to the "other options" page to find non-DVRs. The advertising seems to be focused on "free Genie" (regular Genie with DVR) ... not non-DVRs.



slice1900 said:


> This would be a terrible box for SD upgrades, if it raises their bill by $15 for a "free upgrade". SD customers would be the most price sensitive, they'd leave Directv in droves if they were faced with being forced to take new equipment that causes a $15 increase in monthly bill. Maybe it is a sort of arbitrage, trading the $10 HD fee they can hardly charge someone they force to upgrade to HD (who will say they don't want it) for another fee.


I hope it is not part of a grand scheme to charge everybody a $15 fee.


----------



## damondlt

James Long said:


> It is an option ... but the primary push on the website is DVRs and the regular Genie. One has to go to the "other options" page to find non-DVRs. The advertising seems to be focused on "free Genie" (regular Genie with DVR) ... not non-DVRs.
> 
> I hope it is not part of a grand scheme to charge everybody a $15 fee.


Yes you are right. It took a little poking to switch from the DVR Genie, to just the HD systems in the Directv promo page.
They certainly want you into a regular HD DVR Genie.

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## peds48

James Long said:


> On DirecTV's website, ordering through their cart system one can select the "Genie Lite" without a $15 fee ... BUT when one goes to add a Mini the fee is noted:
> "All equipment is leased. Advanced Receiver Service ($15/mo). A monthly fee of $6.50 applies for each receiver and/or Genie Mini/DIRECTV-ready TV/Device on your account."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> genielitesale.png
> 
> (One needs to select "see more equipment options" from the step that offers equipment based on the number of rooms in order to get the selections for regular receivers, non-Genie DVRs, Tivo and Genie Lite.)


My experience was different. I added a Genie lite plus a client and there was no ARS fee. As a mater of fact, adding a clients gets you the Genie lite at no cost as compared to getting it by itself which would be $99

Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch


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## damondlt

I got the same thing when I just did it from the mobile site as you.

But when I do it from the Regular site it says exactly what James posted.

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## peds48

damondlt said:


> I got the same thing when I just did it from the mobile site as you.
> 
> But when I do it from the Regular site it says exactly what James posted.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


No, this is not a mobile browser, is the regular Safari from the iMac. I just snipped the page info, no need to include the whole browser window.


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## James Long

peds48 said:


> My experience was different. I added a Genie lite plus a client and there was no ARS fee. As a mater of fact, adding a clients gets you the Genie lite at no cost as compared to getting it by itself which would be $99


DirecTV needs to fix their disclaimers or fix their math. The image I posted is what is shown by DirecTV before each item is selected.


----------



## slice1900

Guess we'll need to wait for Directv to fix their website to always give the same answer before we know for sure whether it is charged the $15 fee. Very strange that different browsers are getting different answers.


----------



## inkahauts

damondlt said:


> I would agree with you except one thing.
> One room with H25 is free.
> Than its $99 for each addtional.
> If you pick a 4 room HD setup, you get the Genie Lite and 3 Clients for free.
> 
> So yes I do think it's targeted at New Customers just the same as any new Receiver.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


No, of course they will put it up for anyone. That has nothing to do with my point. I think their biggest market for this product is moving those people. One room sd customers can get a h25, the rest a genie lite. And it will get them internet connected too.. (genie lite does more than a h25 does Internet connected). Doesn't mean that they wont sell it to new customers too. But their biggest opportunity, and the reason it makes the most sense for them I believe is moving sd equipment out in the long run.


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> This would be a terrible box for SD upgrades, if it raises their bill by $15 for a "free upgrade". SD customers would be the most price sensitive, they'd leave Directv in droves if they were faced with being forced to take new equipment that causes a $15 increase in monthly bill. Maybe it is a sort of arbitrage, trading the $10 HD fee they can hardly charge someone they force to upgrade to HD (who will say they don't want it) for another fee.
> 
> For all I know, maybe Directv wants to lose the cheapskates. It'll be pretty obvious who they are - the ones Directv has to force off SD only installs when they announce a sunset date for MPEG2.


Pretty sure that is a mistake, its not mean tot have the advanced fee unless you add the hard drive.

I do not think Directv wants to lose anyone, especially sd customers who are probably extremely cheap to keep, because they probably haven't had a service call in years. At some point though, the bandwidth will outweigh leaving the cash cow that is sd customers on sd equipment.


----------



## James Long

slice1900 said:


> Guess we'll need to wait for Directv to fix their website to always give the same answer before we know for sure whether it is charged the $15 fee. Very strange that different browsers are getting different answers.


It isn't different browsers ... the site is giving different answers at different levels.

If you look at the "small print" when you select the Genie Lite then Genie Mini the $15 fee is shown. But once the Mini is added the pricing in the cart changes - and the $15 fee noted is not added to the math.

Since the fee is added when the Genie DVR is added perhaps DirecTV simply needs to remove the mention of $15 off of the Mini. It seems to be left over from when Minis only worked with Genie DVRs. There is also a popup on the Genie Mini description that states a Genie DVR is required. That needs to be changed as well.

Only a couple days into the sale I suppose we should expect minor errors ... but it is confusing to see different pricing after one clicks than one saw before the click. Consistency is best.


----------



## jimmie57

harsh said:


> I'm still convinced that its primary value is in commercial installations where DVR functionality is not offered.


There have been quite a few people on here wanting to set up multiple receivers in the same room for watching different ball games at the same time in one room. This would be a perfect solution for them. Of course it would not have rewind capabilities since it has no hard drive.


----------



## jimmie57

James Long said:


> Yes ...
> (See attachment in my post above.)
> 
> One note from the Genie Lite description:
> "This latest-generation HD receiver can be easily upgraded to a Genie HD DVR in the future with a Genie Lite HD DVR Kit (sold separately). *P**lease note: If you want full HD DVR capabilities now, please order the Genie HD DVR."*
> 
> Popup: "If you decide to upgrade to an HD DVR in the future, sign in to your online DIRECTV account to purchase the Genie Lite HD DVR Kit."


This makes me think that they do not have enough of these eSataP hard drives to offer to the public at this time.
I searched the net and did not find any. Of course I could have missed them. The advantage to them is they have super speed of transfer and get their power from the receiver.
This brings me to another question all together. Can you use one drive and possibly fill it with special recordings you want to keep and then replace it with another drive to start process over ?


----------



## damondlt

jimmie57 said:


> There have been quite a few people on here wanting to set up multiple receivers in the same room for watching different ball games at the same time in one room. This would be a perfect solution for them. Of course it would not have rewind capabilities since it has no hard drive.


Only problem with that is You can't have Genie and a Genie Lite on the same account.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## peds48

jimmie57 said:


> This makes me think that they do not have enough of these eSataP hard drives to offer to the public at this time.


Don't know if they have a short supply, but the reason customers are encouraged to get a Genie HD-DVR is that tech don't carry drives with them.


----------



## peds48

James Long said:


> It isn't different browsers ... the site is giving different answers at different levels.
> 
> If you look at the "small print" when you select the Genie Lite then Genie Mini the $15 fee is shown. But once the Mini is added the pricing in the cart changes - and the $15 fee noted is not added to the math.
> 
> Since the fee is added when the Genie DVR is added perhaps DirecTV simply needs to remove the mention of $15 off of the Mini. It seems to be left over from when Minis only worked with Genie DVRs. There is also a popup on the Genie Mini description that states a Genie DVR is required. That needs to be changed as well.
> 
> Only a couple days into the sale I suppose we should expect minor errors ... but it is confusing to see different pricing after one clicks than one saw before the click. Consistency is best.


I can't get to the page where you get the Genie Lite and a client together. When I click on "see more equipment options" I get to a page that lists a Genie HDDVR, HDDVR, TiVO, Genie Lite and HD Receiver. The mini is AWOL until you select a Genie Lite. Nowhere on this page is the is the $15 fee mention where is not supposed to be.

Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch


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## JoeTheDragon

harsh said:


> I'm still convinced that its primary value is in commercial installations where DVR functionality is not offered.


but 5 tuners / 4 tv's is low for lot's of them. Will they let commercial have 2-3 Genie Lites?


----------



## damondlt

peds48 said:


> I can't get to the page where you get the Genie Lite and a client together. When I click on "see more equipment options" I get to a page that lists a Genie HDDVR, HDDVR, TiVO, Genie Lite and HD Receiver. The mini is AWOL until you select a Genie Lite. Nowhere on this page is the is the $15 fee mention where is not supposed to be.
> 
> Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch


You have to add the Genie Lite to your cart for $99, then add another room. It will show a Genie Mini for Free or H25 for $99.

When you add the Genie Mini, that's when you will see it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## peds48

damondlt said:


> You have to add the Genie Lite to your cart for $99, then add another room. It will show a Genie Mini for Free or H25 for $99.
> 
> *When you add the Genie Mini, that's when you will see it.*
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Nailed it!

So it appears that DIRECTV® is copying and pasting info from the DVR side to the Genie lite when adding clients. There should not be any fee at all as evident by looking at the shopping cart


----------



## harsh

inkahauts said:


> I'll take at least part of that bet. I don't see them having tow different charges ever again.


I can see DIRECTV doing that as a way to drive customers towards their preferred hardware and software platforms going forward. They've already brought the prices in line for HR2x users that aren't able to take advantage of WHDS.


----------



## damondlt

peds48 said:


> Nailed it!
> 
> So it appears that DIRECTV® is copying and pasting info from the DVR side to the Genie lite when adding clients. There should not be any fee at all as evident by looking at the shopping cart


I hope they aren't adding it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## harsh

peds48 said:


> There should not be any fee at all as evident by looking at the shopping cart


I don't see an ARS fee either. Apparently the ARS fee only comes into play with a DVR on the account so the ARS would appear to be the new DVR fee.

What I was stunned by is that if you add an HR2x to the cart, it jettisons that Genie Lite and any Genie Minis with an advice that the HD DVR is "not compatible" with the other gear.


----------



## James Long

peds48 said:


> There should not be any fee at all as evident by looking at the shopping cart


The fee is shown where one selects the item (the Genie Mini) but is not added to the cart. As I mentioned last night, "DirecTV simply needs to remove the mention of $15 off of the Mini. It seems to be left over from when Minis only worked with Genie DVRs. There is also a popup on the Genie Mini description that states a Genie DVR is required. That needs to be changed as well."



harsh said:


> What I was stunned by is that if you add an HR2x to the cart, it jettisons that Genie Lite and any Genie Minis with an advice that the HD DVR is "not compatible" with the other gear.


DirecTV does not want people who want a DVR now to get a Genie Lite.


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## jimmie57

I have scoured the net for hours searching for a hard drive that has and eSataP connection. I can not find one.
I can however find an enclosure that you can put your Sata drive into and it has a wire that connects the enclosure to whatever you are hooking it up to. It even comes with a USB cable if you do not have a device with the eSataP connection.
I would guess that you could even put a Solid State drive in the enclosure as long as it fits where a 2-1/2" drive normally fits.


----------



## harsh

jimmie57 said:


> I would guess that you could even put a Solid State drive in the enclosure as long as it fits where a 2-1/2" drive normally fits.


Absent the garbage collection technology that most SSDs require being built into the DVR firmware, you would run out of space quickly.

http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/garbage-collection-and-trim-in-ssds-explained-an-ssd-primer/


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## jimmie57

harsh said:


> Absent the garbage collection technology that most SSDs require being built into the DVR firmware, you would run out of space quickly.
> 
> http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/garbage-collection-and-trim-in-ssds-explained-an-ssd-primer/


Not me. I have an HR24 that has 70% or more free space all the time.


----------



## slice1900

jimmie57 said:


> I have scoured the net for hours searching for a hard drive that has and eSataP connection. I can not find one.
> I can however find an enclosure that you can put your Sata drive into and it has a wire that connects the enclosure to whatever you are hooking it up to. It even comes with a USB cable if you do not have a device with the eSataP connection.
> I would guess that you could even put a Solid State drive in the enclosure as long as it fits where a 2-1/2" drive normally fits.


No one will ever make a hard drive with a eSATAp connection because it makes no sense. eSATAp is a bastardized connector that combines eSATA and USB - using the USB for power only. If you have USB, you'd simply use USB to connect the drive, USB-3 offers far more bandwidth than any (non-SSD) hard drive is capable of so using eSATA provides no benefit. I guess since Directv already had eSATA support built into their Genie hardware and firmware they didn't want to rework things to add support for USB attached drives.

You can buy cables with eSATAp on one end and eSATA and USB on the other, which could connect to a eSATA external drive and a USB power supply. Of course it wouldn't do you any good, unless someday Directv lets people use their own drives instead of the one you have to buy from Directv.


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## slice1900

harsh said:


> Absent the garbage collection technology that most SSDs require being built into the DVR firmware, you would run out of space quickly.
> 
> http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/garbage-collection-and-trim-in-ssds-explained-an-ssd-primer/


That really only matters if you are writing and deleting a large number of small files. DVRs write and delete a small number of large files, so TRIM doesn't offer any benefit (and in any case TRIM doesn't save you from "running out space" but from the drive having to erase blocks as they're written, which slows things down)

There's no benefit to using a SSD in a DVR, because DVRs are reading/writing sequentially which hard drives excel at, and reading/writing data far slower than a hard drive can handle. HD channels on Directv average less than 8 Mbps, which is less than ONE megabyte per second. Most hard drives can read/write at over FIFTY megabytes per second, so recording five programs on a Genie while having multiple people watching programs off it all at once isn't even causing the hard drive to break a sweat. Even when 4K comes and bit rates for programs are much higher it won't be an issue.

A SSD offers a massive performance improvement on a PC, because PCs are reading/writing little files randomly all over the disk, which is difficult for hard drives as the head has to physically move around for each read or write, but a SSD is solid state so there's nothing to move. For big sequential read/write activity like DVRs, an SSD provides zero performance benefit. Maybe your DVR will boot faster, but that's not something worth spending big money on.


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## slice1900

JoeTheDragon said:


> but 5 tuners / 4 tv's is low for lot's of them. Will they let commercial have 2-3 Genie Lites?


I doubt it, they still have to fix the software issues with Genie->client pairing in the presence of multiple Genies to allow it. Honestly, a H44 with only three clients is not worth it, larger installs would have to have a pile of them.

I'm not sure they're even offering the Genie Lite to commercial at all right now. Solid Signal has a commercial version of some of the receivers for sale, but I don't see a commercial version of the H44 or the clients for sale...


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## jimmie57

slice1900 said:


> No one will ever make a hard drive with a eSATAp connection because it makes no sense. eSATAp is a bastardized connector that combines eSATA and USB - using the USB for power only. If you have USB, you'd simply use USB to connect the drive, USB-3 offers far more bandwidth than any (non-SSD) hard drive is capable of so using eSATA provides no benefit. I guess since Directv already had eSATA support built into their Genie hardware and firmware they didn't want to rework things to add support for USB attached drives.
> 
> You can buy cables with eSATAp on one end and eSATA and USB on the other, which could connect to a eSATA external drive and a USB power supply. Of course it wouldn't do you any good, unless someday Directv lets people use their own drives instead of the one you have to buy from Directv.


The eSataP connections are faster than the USB. The following is copied and pasted from Wikipedia:

eSATAp throughput is not necessarily the same as SATA, many enclosures and docks that support both esata and USB use combo bridge chips which can severely reduce the throughput, and USB throughput is that of the USB version supported by the port (typically USB 3.0 or 2.0).
*eSATAp ports can run at a theoretical maximum of 6 Gbit/s (bits per sec)* *and are backwards compatible with devices such as eSATA *
*3 Gbit/s (SATA Revision 2) and also at 1.5 Gbit/s (SATA Revision 1). *T

*The USB port is fully compatible with USB 5 Gbit/s (USB 3.0), USB 480 Mbit/s (USB 2.0) and USB 12 Mbit/s (1.1);* USB 3.0 devices are compatible, but will operate at USB 2.0 speed if internal USB 3.0 connector is not connected.


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## Laxguy

Isn't the point that almost any connection is fast enough for the task at hand?


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## James Long

Laxguy said:


> Isn't the point that almost any connection is fast enough for the task at hand?


When the task at hand is recording multiple streams while feeding itself and multiple clients the more speed the better. Certainly no slower than an internal drive.


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## Laxguy

James Long said:


> When the task at hand is recording multiple streams while feeding itself and multiple clients the more speed the better. Certainly no slower than an internal drive.


Once one is past a certain threshold, more speed is flat out useless to the tasks at hand. Metaphors are tricky, but would it not be like insisting on the Ferrari for a trip to the store where the speed limit is 30 mph all the way? (Leaving out the show off factor!)


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## peds48

Laxguy said:


> Once one is past a certain threshold, more speed is flat out useless to the tasks at hand. Metaphors are tricky, but would it not be like insisting on the Ferrari for a trip to the store where the speed limit is 30 mph all the way? (Leaving out the show off factor!)


and this is the exact same reason why I don't buy a Lamborghini...... Sure! Lol

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## unixguru

A DVR will eat SSDs. Don't do it!

Lookup SSD write endurance. Tiny compared to HDD. Consider that a DVR is *always* writing to storage.

As for performance of various interfaces, only USB 1.1 is insufficient for DVRs. The others are FAR beyond what is needed. The reason why external storage works only with eSATA(p) is that there is absolutely nothing different about the software compared to the internal drive - eSATA is exactly the same signals as SATA, just a different connector. External storage support via USB would require different driver software. And then there would be 1 USB port and people wanting storage and OTA - adding USB hubs into the mix would be a support nightmare.


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## slice1900

jimmie57 said:


> The eSataP connections are faster than the USB. The following is copied and pasted from Wikipedia:
> 
> eSATAp throughput is not necessarily the same as SATA, many enclosures and docks that support both esata and USB use combo bridge chips which can severely reduce the throughput, and USB throughput is that of the USB version supported by the port (typically USB 3.0 or 2.0).
> *eSATAp ports can run at a theoretical maximum of 6 Gbit/s (bits per sec)* *and are backwards compatible with devices such as eSATA *
> *3 Gbit/s (SATA Revision 2) and also at 1.5 Gbit/s (SATA Revision 1). *T
> 
> *The USB port is fully compatible with USB 5 Gbit/s (USB 3.0), USB 480 Mbit/s (USB 2.0) and USB 12 Mbit/s (1.1);* USB 3.0 devices are compatible, but will operate at USB 2.0 speed if internal USB 3.0 connector is not connected.


That's true, but if you read my whole post you'd see why it doesn't matter. Saying eSATA/eSATAp will be faster for DVRs because it offers 6Gbps instead of USB3's 5Gbps is like saying a Lamborghini will be faster to get you home in LA traffic. When traffic is only moving at 20 mph, it doesn't matter if your car's top speed is 100 mph or 200 mph.


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## jimmie57

slice1900 said:


> That's true, but if you read my whole post you'd see why it doesn't matter. Saying eSATA/eSATAp will be faster for DVRs because it offers 6Gbps instead of USB3's 5Gbps is like saying a Lamborghini will be faster to get you home in LA traffic. When traffic is only moving at 20 mph, it doesn't matter if your car's top speed is 100 mph or 200 mph.


I just think it is kinda funny that we are talking about speed does not matter when so many of the post complaining on here are for how slow things are and wanting it to be faster.
To me the faster connection is a definitely an improvement on data flow. With an improvement on data flow I would feel that there is a better chance to get unaltered data thru that flow than a super slow one. I know that I put a 10,000 rpm drive in a PC back around the year 2,000 and there was a huge difference in how fast a program would load into memory. When you just need a small amount of data it could transfer in a heartbeat and a super slow one might take a few to many seconds.
With the 5 tuners in the Genie there is a lot going on with data transfer when you are watching the Genie and say 3 minis at the same time.
Looking at what it takes for just 1 program needs to be looked at as manipulating 4 programs and possibly recording another one and working the Guides in each of the connections.

.


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## damondlt

slice1900 said:


> That's true, but if you read my whole post you'd see why it doesn't matter. Saying eSATA/eSATAp will be faster for DVRs because it offers 6Gbps instead of USB3's 5Gbps is like saying a Lamborghini will be faster to get you home in LA traffic. When traffic is only moving at 20 mph, it doesn't matter if your car's top speed is 100 mph or 200 mph.


See I don't agree either.
That's like saying Duramax Diesel towing a 10,000 lb trailer is the same as a Vortec 6.0 gas towing a 10,000 lb trailers just because they both can and both are limited to 99 mph top speed.
But in reality the Duramax will out perform in every aspect of pulling that trailer while in those parameters, whether more people climb aboard, or when steep hills are thrown at it.
Not to mention less wear and tear, less energy is used.

Damon


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## Laxguy

There are too many differences in operation between a PC's read/write speeds and those needed for the straight transfer of a file as on a DIRECTV DVR.

Most call for speed increases have to do with streaming or channel changes.....


----------



## James Long

Laxguy said:


> Metaphors are tricky, but would it not be like insisting on the Ferrari for a trip to the store where the speed limit is 30 mph all the way? (Leaving out the show off factor!)


It looks like we are looking at this backwards ... we're not comparing cars, we're comparing highways. The cars run on highways. The better the highway is the more cars that can be run faster. Better highway design allows for better speeds, more lanes provides for better throughput.

Perhaps one can say that one does not need an Autobahn design to move a pinto one mile ... but it certainly helps when the network exceeds the needs of the equipment. Certainly better than the equipment exceeding the capability of the network.

The problem of a Ferrari stuck in rush hour traffic is the fault of the capacity of the road ... not the capability of the car. Other than extra construction expense, extra capacity of a road is rarely a problem. Neither is a data connection that can do more than it is asked to do.


----------



## unixguru

jimmie57 said:


> I just think it is kinda funny that we are talking about speed does not matter when so many of the post complaining on here are for how slow things are and wanting it to be faster.
> To me the faster connection is a definitely an improvement on data flow. With an improvement on data flow I would feel that there is a better chance to get unaltered data thru that flow than a super slow one. I know that I put a 10,000 rpm drive in a PC back around the year 2,000 and there was a huge difference in how fast a program would load into memory. When you just need a small amount of data it could transfer in a heartbeat and a super slow one might take a few to many seconds.
> With the 5 tuners in the Genie there is a lot going on with data transfer when you are watching the Genie and say 3 minis at the same time.
> Looking at what it takes for just 1 program needs to be looked at as manipulating 4 programs and possibly recording another one and working the Guides in each of the connections.


There are also many posts that talk about how model X is so much faster than model Y. Yet in most cases the specs of the disk drive are exactly the same. So its pure myth that the "speed" of the storage interface plays a role.

These are complex systems with a lot of interactions going on - its not trivial to characterize the cause of perceived performance differences.

Take a look at WD AV drive specs: http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-800015.pdf Sustained host transfer rates are >100 MBytes/sec (800 Mbits/sec). Any "modern" interface is far beyond what is required.

Compare that to a typical HD bitstream of 8 Mbit/sec. 1% of what drive can do. Ignoring seek degradation, 8 streams is 64 Mbit/sec (8%). Even UHD wouldn't break a sweat.

The "slow" that people observe has to do with processor speed, memory, software technology and design. I suspect that the "application" is much larger than the available memory so when you open the guide, for example, it may be discarding something else and "loading" the guide portion of the application into memory. Similar, if not actually, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging. Most of us have forgotten how miserably slow a computer is with inadequate memory that is paging all the time. Try running your desktop on 512MB and let us know how you like it. This kind of stuff also tends to be very random access compared to av streams so there is a lot more seeking involved - also very slow. Once the "guide" part of the application is running then there is more random access to actually pull the guide data off disk.

Bottom line is that storage interface speed is far down the list of knobs that have significant perceived speed impact.


----------



## slice1900

damondlt said:


> See I don't agree either.
> That's like saying Duramax Diesel towing a 10,000 lb trailer is the same as a Vortec 6.0 gas towing a 10,000 lb trailers just because they both can and both are limited to 99 mph top speed.
> But in reality the Duramax will out perform in every aspect of pulling that trailer while in those parameters, whether more people climb aboard, or when steep hills are thrown at it.
> Not to mention less wear and tear, less energy is used.


You can believe what you want, the fact remains that a Genie will never even hit 100 Mbps with five tuners recording and a bunch of people watching, so arguing over whether you need a connection capable of 6000 Mbps instead of 5000 Mbps is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what kind of truck you have or even if you have a Ford Focus if you only need to haul 200 lbs. Because that's basically the equivalent here for how much bandwidth USB3 and eSATA have versus how much a Genie going flat out actually needs.


----------



## slice1900

James Long said:


> It looks like we are looking at this backwards ... we're not comparing cars, we're comparing highways. The cars run on highways. The better the highway is the more cars that can be run faster. Better highway design allows for better speeds, more lanes provides for better throughput.
> 
> Perhaps one can say that one does not need an Autobahn design to move a pinto one mile ... but it certainly helps when the network exceeds the needs of the equipment. Certainly better than the equipment exceeding the capability of the network.
> 
> The problem of a Ferrari stuck in rush hour traffic is the fault of the capacity of the road ... not the capability of the car. Other than extra construction expense, extra capacity of a road is rarely a problem. Neither is a data connection that can do more than it is asked to do.


Yes, that is a better example. So it basically the difference between driving home at 4am on a 4 lane versus a 24 lane highway. The extra lanes aren't going to get you home any faster.


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## unixguru

James Long said:


> The problem of a Ferrari stuck in rush hour traffic is the fault of the capacity of the road ... not the capability of the car. Other than extra construction expense, extra capacity of a road is rarely a problem. Neither is a data connection that can do more than it is asked to do.


And therein is the issue - cost. Everything has an intense pressure to minimize cost.

I don't know what SATA speed is used in the DVRs. But you can be sure it has nothing to do with what is required or headroom. Original 1.5 Gbit would be plenty yet they wouldn't be using that today. Why? Because drive manufacturers aren't building 1.5 Gbit drives anymore! I just looked at WD AV drives in my previous post and they are 6 Gbit across the board with a couple of "legacy" models that are 3 Gbit. There is no incentive for a drive manufacturer (or SATA interface chip vendor) to build multiple speed limits concurrently. There is essentially zero difference in cost. And cost is minimized by volume (commoditization) so 1 interface for all is desirable. Any consumer device is buying optimal commodity-priced drives/chips - whatever interface speed they are.

The only characteristic of disk that has a significant impact on cost is - capacity. Which has nothing to do with the interface speed we are discussing.

Memory is also priced primarily on capacity. We aren't having a discussion about the interface speed of memory!

Processor is priced primarily on clock rate.

From a hardware perspective the perceived speed factors that are relevant to a DVR are memory capacity and processor speed - all very cost sensitive. Disk has little to do with it.


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## P Smith

How people dare to post such false opinions accompanied by loud fanfares! :lol


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## damondlt

Mr Smith.
You are the guy whom can clear this all up.
Enlighten us please.

Damon


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## Laxguy

He might be the guy *who* can clear it up, but it needs to be in standard English!!


----------



## RunnerFL

slice1900 said:


> No one will ever make a hard drive with a eSATAp connection


Not so... At least Seagate makes them, possibly others as well.


----------



## damondlt

Laxguy said:


> He might be the guy *who* can clear it up, but it needs to be in standard English!!


What language does he speak?

Damon


----------



## peds48

damondlt said:


> What language does he speak?
> 
> Damon


Haven't you seen his posts? You need a masters and bachelor's degree to understand them, and I am NOT referring to language but the content of the posts.


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## P Smith

[sorry to achieve my master degree in EE, but in English]


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## damondlt

What's EE ? Lol

Damon


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## MysteryMan

damondlt said:


> What's EE ? Lol
> 
> Damon


Electrical Engineering


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## damondlt

I only have an Associates degree, that's why I asked. Lol

Damon


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## unixguru

P Smith said:


> How people dare to post such false opinions accompanied by loud fanfares! :lol


As opposed to terse opinions with zero content?


----------



## unixguru

peds48 said:


> Haven't you seen his posts? You need a masters and bachelor's degree to understand them, and I am NOT referring to language but the content of the posts.


Degrees aren't everything. I've seen several PhD's that couldn't tie their shoes.


----------



## unixguru

Laxguy said:


> He might be the guy *who* can clear it up, but it needs to be in standard English!!


What's to clear up? Forget about the interface. Forget the H44 unless you don't want DVR functionality.

It's just a crippled mutant with a 1TB limit.


----------



## Laxguy

unixguru said:


> What's to clear up? Forget about the interface. Forget the H44 unless you don't want DVR functionality.
> 
> It's just a crippled mutant with a 1TB limit.


To clear up: Some are still confused about transfer speeds many times what can be practically used.

And the H44 is hardly crippled. The 1 TB limit is probably temporary.


----------



## jimmie57

Laxguy said:


> To clear up: Some are still confused about transfer speeds many times what can be practically used.
> 
> And the H44 is hardly crippled. The 1 TB limit is probably temporary.


I am pretty sure that the original Esata drive on any machine was limited to 1 Tb and that has gone way up from there since then.


----------



## inkahauts

jimmie57 said:


> I am pretty sure that the original Esata drive on any machine was limited to 1 Tb and that has gone way up from there since then.


It's at 2tb on non genies and will likely never change. Genie is what increased to the 16tb range.


----------



## Laxguy

The limitation currently, however, is one instituted by DIRECTV®, not a hardware bottleneck per se.


----------



## carl6

The original limit on hard drive size in the HR2x series had to do with the unix kernel. That is also why the Genie series can go larger.

I don't think the limit on the H44 is related to that at all, and I don't think it is temporary. I don't expect it to get larger in the future.


----------



## harsh

jimmie57 said:


> Not me. I have an HR24 that has 70% or more free space all the time.


Even you.

Without TRIM implemented, the SSD will never recover the space occupied by deleted content and it will quickly fill up.


----------



## jimmie57

harsh said:


> Even you.
> 
> Without TRIM implemented, the SSD will never recover the space occupied by deleted content and it will quickly fill up.


Give it a rest man.
I have no intentions in buying a drive of any kind and hooking it to something I lease.


----------



## harsh

carl6 said:


> I don't think the limit on the H44 is related to that at all, and I don't think it is temporary. I don't expect it to get larger in the future.


The size of the suggested eSATA drive was stuck at 500GB for years but now DIRECTV is specifying 1TB and 2TB WD eSATA My Book AV DVR Expanders.

https://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1763

I find it interesting that Western Digital claims that the drives are compatible with the R15. I'm pretty sure they meant to say R22.


----------



## harsh

jimmie57 said:


> I have no intentions in buying a drive of any kind and hooking it to something I lease.


What difference might owning the DVR make?


----------



## jimmie57

harsh said:


> What difference might owning the DVR make?


Owning it would be that I am in full control of what I physically do to it.
Leasing it, it works and when it doesn't I call them to replace it. I have done this a few times since 1996.


----------



## damondlt

harsh said:


> What difference might owning the DVR make?


Zero

Damon


----------



## damondlt

jimmie57 said:


> Owning it would be that I am in full control of what I physically do to it.
> Leasing it, it works and when it doesn't I call them to replace it. I have done this a few times since 1996.


You are not in control of it at all.
They are totally useless without being controlled by Directv.

It doesn't matter what you put under the hood.
Directv changes equipment like people change cell phones they are outdated in 2 years anyway.
How old is that HR24??

Damon


----------



## jimmie57

damondlt said:


> You are not in control of it at all.
> They are totally useless without being controlled by Directv.
> 
> It doesn't matter what you put under the hood.
> Directv changes equipment like people change cell phones they are outdated in 2 years anyway.
> How old is that HR24??
> 
> Damon


OK, so you want to argue today.
Did you see the word "physically" ? The physical box. If I want to I can work on it , change it in anyway that I want, sell it, destroy it if I want to with no consequences. If I lease equipment I am not supposed to do any of those things and you know that.
Anyone knows the boxes are basically worthless with out DTV sending a signal and putting software in them.

The HR24 is a 2012 model and works perfectly.


----------



## harsh

jimmie57 said:


> Did you see the word "physically" ? The physical box. If I want to I can work on it , change it in anyway that I want, sell it, destroy it if I want to with no consequences.


So you believe that there is a relatively high likelihood that you can repair an HR24 should it fail and that's the deciding factor on whether or not to utilize an eSATA drive?


----------



## jimmie57

harsh said:


> So you believe that there is a relatively high likelihood that you can repair an HR24 should it fail and that's the deciding factor on whether or not to utilize an eSATA drive?


Again from post #379.

Give it a rest man.
*I have no intentions in buying a drive of any kind and hooking it to something I lease*.

*Adding: I have no intentions of ever owning one of these receivers. *


----------



## James Long

jimmie57 said:


> *Adding: I have no intentions of ever owning one of these receivers. *


That is where harsh and you agree, He has not shown any intention of ever owning one of these receivers.


----------



## slice1900

harsh said:


> Even you.
> 
> Without TRIM implemented, the SSD will never recover the space occupied by deleted content and it will quickly fill up.


Irrelevant. If you don't understand how the technology works, you shouldn't post about it. Applies not only to your lack of Directv knowledge, but also your lack of understanding how SSD garbage collection works and why TRIM is not needed if you used a SSD in a DVR (which is a dumb idea, but not because TRIM is not implemented)


----------



## slice1900

carl6 said:


> The original limit on hard drive size in the HR2x series had to do with the unix kernel. That is also why the Genie series can go larger.
> 
> I don't think the limit on the H44 is related to that at all, and I don't think it is temporary. I don't expect it to get larger in the future.


The limit on the H44 is due to Directv requiring their drives, and only offering a 1 TB drive. If they decided to offer a 6 TB drive I'm sure it would work just fine. Whether they'll ever offer larger drives, or someday allow customer provided drives, who knows.


----------



## RunnerFL

unixguru said:


> Degrees aren't everything. I've seen several PhD's that couldn't tie their shoes.


A degree is just a piece of paper as far as I'm concerned, and I have a couple.


----------



## RunnerFL

unixguru said:
 

> What's to clear up? Forget about the interface. Forget the H44 unless you don't want DVR functionality.
> 
> It's just a crippled mutant with a 1TB limit.


I wouldn't call it crippled at all.


----------



## jimmie57

RunnerFL said:


> A degree is just a piece of paper as far as I'm concerned, and I have a couple.


Sometimes they are not worth the paper they are written on.
I remember way way back in high school that I had a coach for PE that had a degree in basket weaving. Are you for real ? Mercy !


----------



## RunnerFL

jimmie57 said:


> Sometimes they are not worth the paper they are written on.


Agreed!


----------



## peds48

slice1900 said:


> Irrelevant. If you don't understand how the technology works, you shouldn't post about it.


Then he would not be able to post at all.... !rolling That is his MO after all..... :righton:


----------



## unixguru

Laxguy said:


> To clear up: Some are still confused about transfer speeds many times what can be practically used.
> 
> And the H44 is hardly crippled. The 1 TB limit is probably temporary.


*People on this forum get too knotted up in confusion about things that don't matter.* DTV supports (e)SATA(p); period. Whether it is 1.5, 3, or 6 Gbit/sec doesn't matter as far as use in a DVR. The only place it has any relevance is in non-streaming aspects (software loads (possibly on-the-fly), guide access, etc) and even there it is really irrelevant - in the weeds - of other factors having to do with small memory, slow processor, slow disk seeks, etc.

My crippled comment was relative to using a H44 with a disk and compared to a HR44. When the HR44 has no practical limit on size or supplier. The only reason, IMO, to get a H44 is when it is unlikely that one would add a disk to it. How many people are going to get one without a disk and then add a disk before the model is obsolete? Very few I suspect.

I assume nobody has tried a H44 with a 3rd-party drive (yet). Will be interesting to see if the 1TB is a limit imposed by 1) demanding only a DTV-supplied drive be attached and 2) only a 1TB is available from DTV. In other words, purely marketing play. OR, whether it will actually not recognize a drive of another manufacturer and/or larger size. In other words, enforced in software.

I personally hope they add options for larger drives and even a RAID option. And get rid of HR44 and subsequent models altogether. That is the direction they should be going.


----------



## Shades228

unixguru said:


> *People on this forum get too knotted up in confusion about things that don't matter.* DTV supports (e)SATA(p); period. Whether it is 1.5, 3, or 6 Gbit/sec doesn't matter as far as use in a DVR. The only place it has any relevance is in non-streaming aspects (software loads (possibly on-the-fly), guide access, etc) and even there it is really irrelevant - in the weeds - of other factors having to do with small memory, slow processor, slow disk seeks, etc.
> 
> My crippled comment was relative to using a H44 with a disk and compared to a HR44. When the HR44 has no practical limit on size or supplier. The only reason, IMO, to get a H44 is when it is unlikely that one would add a disk to it. How many people are going to get one without a disk and then add a disk before the model is obsolete? Very few I suspect.
> 
> I assume nobody has tried a H44 with a 3rd-party drive (yet). Will be interesting to see if the 1TB is a limit imposed by 1) demanding only a DTV-supplied drive be attached and 2) only a 1TB is available from DTV. In other words, purely marketing play. OR, whether it will actually not recognize a drive of another manufacturer and/or larger size. In other words, enforced in software.
> 
> I personally hope they add options for larger drives and even a RAID option. And get rid of HR44 and subsequent models altogether. That is the direction they should be going.


Many people will get an H44 and eventually add a HD to it. The H44 is the answer to non DVR new customer's. Instead of H25's they get this. Then later on when they want a DVR they just get a HD and nothing else is needed. It's simple and customer friendly. The largest reason for customer roll backs in the first 14 days is incorrect equipment. This basically negates that as long as total number of rooms was correct. If someone wanted a DVR but didn't get one they just ship a HD out. No more customer waiting on an install and the customer gets what they wanted. As far as HD size? Have you seen the competitions HD sizes? Ignoring TiVo only DISH really competes. Most companies have 1/10th the size in comparable units. The vast majority of consumers don't care about HD size when factoring in provider decisions. Even the % of people on here with raids is small enough that it doesn't factor in. Perhaps you can explain what makes the H44 superior to the HR44 that it would warrant it being gotten rid of?


----------



## carl6

slice1900 said:


> The limit on the H44 is due to Directv requiring their drives, and only offering a 1 TB drive. If they decided to offer a 6 TB drive I'm sure it would work just fine. Whether they'll ever offer larger drives, or someday allow customer provided drives, who knows.





unixguru said:


> .
> I assume nobody has tried a H44 with a 3rd-party drive (yet). Will be interesting to see if the 1TB is a limit imposed by 1) demanding only a DTV-supplied drive be attached and 2) only a 1TB is available from DTV. In other words, purely marketing play. OR, whether it will actually not recognize a drive of another manufacturer and/or larger size. In other words, enforced in software.
> .


I will say that the H44 hard drive limit is not due to DirecTV only offering that size (knowledge, not speculation). Why that limit was imposed, I do not know. It is an intentional limitation imposed on the H44, and I do not expect it to change.


----------



## carl6

Shades228 said:


> Many people will get an H44 and eventually add a HD to it. The H44 is the answer to non DVR new customer's. Instead of H25's they get this.


This, and everything else you said in your post is right on target. The H44 will never go to a customer who starts out wanting a DVR. It is extremely doubtful an H44 would ever end up with a so called "power user" like found on these forums. That just isn't what it was designed or intended for. And a 1TB drive will be more than sufficient for any customer that does end up with an upgraded (to DVR) H44. If they ever do outgrow that, as unlikely as that is to happen, then the HR44 (or subsequent product) would be the direction for them to go.


----------



## Laxguy

I'd believe Carl's view over mine at about 5:1, but I remain hopeful that larger HD's may be allowed.... On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense that they ( DIRECTV) won't based on a number of simplicity factors! And I'd guess the majority of subs—probably over 80%—have no need nor desire for more than a TB of HDD space, at least until 4K comes to be the norm. So, mark me hopeful but doubtful!


----------



## RunnerFL

unixguru said:


> *People on this forum get too knotted up in confusion about things that don't matter.* DTV supports (e)SATA(p); period. Whether it is 1.5, 3, or 6 Gbit/sec doesn't matter as far as use in a DVR. The only place it has any relevance is in non-streaming aspects (software loads (possibly on-the-fly), guide access, etc) and even there it is really irrelevant - in the weeds - of other factors having to do with small memory, slow processor, slow disk seeks, etc.
> 
> My crippled comment was relative to using a H44 with a disk and compared to a HR44. When the HR44 has no practical limit on size or supplier. The only reason, IMO, to get a H44 is when it is unlikely that one would add a disk to it. How many people are going to get one without a disk and then add a disk before the model is obsolete? Very few I suspect.
> 
> I assume nobody has tried a H44 with a 3rd-party drive (yet). Will be interesting to see if the 1TB is a limit imposed by 1) demanding only a DTV-supplied drive be attached and 2) only a 1TB is available from DTV. In other words, purely marketing play. OR, whether it will actually not recognize a drive of another manufacturer and/or larger size. In other words, enforced in software.
> 
> I personally hope they add options for larger drives and even a RAID option. And get rid of HR44 and subsequent models altogether. That is the direction they should be going.


The limit is the limit period regardless of where the drive came from.


----------



## unixguru

carl6 said:


> I will say that the H44 hard drive limit is not due to DirecTV only offering that size (knowledge, not speculation). Why that limit was imposed, I do not know. It is an intentional limitation imposed on the H44, and I do not expect it to change.





RunnerFL said:


> The limit is the limit period regardless of where the drive came from.


So the "firmware" (Linux) has been intentionally crippled then. Which is likely the result of purely marketing reasons.


----------



## RunnerFL

unixguru said:


> So the "firmware" (Linux) has been intentionally crippled then. Which is likely the result of purely marketing reasons.


Again, not "crippled" at all. An HR44 only comes with 1TB, therefore an H44 gets 1TB. That makes them even. Compare "stock" to "stock" and disregard what any of us have done here to expand storage.


----------



## unixguru

Shades228 said:


> Perhaps you can explain what makes the H44 superior to the HR44 that it would warrant it being gotten rid of?


What makes the HR44 superior to a H44+HDD? The H44 has a builtin PI. I can see only two things that are different for a HR44: 1) the storage size can be made larger and/or RAID implemented and 2) its in one "box". The lack of the first in the H44 is just marketing crippling.

In other words, keeping both is wasteful duplication.

They still don't "get it" from a product design perspective, although they are getting warmer. Modular systems that meet a variety of needs is definitely the way things should be. Having those modules be independent boxes of varying physical dimension strung together with cables is not optimal. Modularity was discussed at length in thread http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/212139-what-is-there-to-look-forward-to/

I'll buy that there is an incremental cost (which I've argued is tiny) to add a HDD "slot" (cartridge, whatever). But is there any reason why the HDD add-on couldn't be the same width/depth as the H44 and "snap" onto the H44??? (That form factor would even support a pair of drives.) Likewise with OTA. The power supply should also be the same (a separate brick is inelegant).

I can't imagine hanging a H44 with HDD "on the wall" behind a TV. Apparently that mounting mode is only intended for the bare H44. Note that "snap" on attachments could just as easily be available edge-wise as well as stacked.

When they get to that point with snap-on power and options (storage/OTA) then those modules could be shared with a 2-tuner core in the same way (assuming the 1 per home limit on 5-tuner units remains for other reasons - otherwise, don't need a 2-tuner at all).



Shades228 said:


> Many people will get an H44 and eventually add a HD to it. The H44 is the answer to non DVR new customer's. Instead of H25's they get this. Then later on when they want a DVR they just get a HD and nothing else is needed. It's simple and customer friendly. The largest reason for customer roll backs in the first 14 days is incorrect equipment. This basically negates that as long as total number of rooms was correct. If someone wanted a DVR but didn't get one they just ship a HD out. No more customer waiting on an install and the customer gets what they wanted. As far as HD size? Have you seen the competitions HD sizes? Ignoring TiVo only DISH really competes. Most companies have 1/10th the size in comparable units. The vast majority of consumers don't care about HD size when factoring in provider decisions. Even the % of people on here with raids is small enough that it doesn't factor in.


Ok, so then why keep the HR44 series? They apparently admit that a consumer is capable of removing/attaching a power supply, and OTA tuner, and now disk.

As a side note, want to place bets on whether joe consumer expects to be able to move that H44 HDD from a failed unit to a replacement and not lose content? This is going to drive that cat out of the bag.


----------



## unixguru

RunnerFL said:


> Again, not "crippled" at all. An HR44 only comes with 1TB, therefore an H44 gets 1TB. That makes them even. Compare "stock" to "stock" and disregard what any of us have done here to expand storage.


So you're saying that a drive >1TB will work? Which is it?

There seems to be a lot more emphasis on 1TB limit with this. They needn't do that if they also claim that only their add-on drive is supported. It's self-limiting.

The only reason to place emphasis on the 1TB limit is for us. Which implies that they have crippled the software so that a >1TB will not work, or at least not see more than 1TB. Just like the non-Genies have a 2TB limit and that is all one sees if the drive is larger.

They "fixed" (or more correctly updated) their Linux kernel long ago for >2TB.

If there is really a 1TB limit then they have *crippled* the kernel - _intentionally put in code that restricts it_. Purely for marketing reasons.

If the truth is that they only support their own drive and it is only 1TB and *therefore* the limit is 1TB then, yes, I would agree it isn't crippled. And just like people putting 2TB drives in an HR24, people will attach drives to an H44 larger than 1TB.

This may seem insignificant/irrelevant to most but I, for one, worry about the wording of this stuff. It wouldn't surprise me if they started putting software-constrained limits on these devices. It also wouldn't surprise me, now that they are moving into the external drive business, if they started software-constraining the type of drive that could be attached (it would be quite easy for them to get the drive manufacturers to put their own vendor and serial info into the drives and then reject anything that isn't theirs).


----------



## RunnerFL

unixguru said:


> So you're saying that a drive >1TB will work? Which is it?
> 
> There seems to be a lot more emphasis on 1TB limit with this. They needn't do that if they also claim that only their add-on drive is supported. It's self-limiting.
> 
> The only reason to place emphasis on the 1TB limit is for us. Which implies that they have crippled the software so that a >1TB will not work, or at least not see more than 1TB. Just like the non-Genies have a 2TB limit and that is all one sees if the drive is larger.
> 
> They "fixed" (or more correctly updated) their Linux kernel long ago for >2TB.
> 
> If there is really a 1TB limit then they have *crippled* the kernel - _intentionally put in code that restricts it_. Purely for marketing reasons.
> 
> If the truth is that they only support their own drive and it is only 1TB and *therefore* the limit is 1TB then, yes, I would agree it isn't crippled. And just like people putting 2TB drives in an HR24, people will attach drives to an H44 larger than 1TB.
> 
> This may seem insignificant/irrelevant to most but I, for one, worry about the wording of this stuff. It wouldn't surprise me if they started putting software-constrained limits on these devices. It also wouldn't surprise me, now that they are moving into the external drive business, if they started software-constraining the type of drive that could be attached (it would be quite easy for them to get the drive manufacturers to put their own vendor and serial info into the drives and then reject anything that isn't theirs).


Limiting the size of a drive is in no way crippling anything. It can be undone. The act of crippling is doing something that can NEVER be undone.


----------



## peds48

unixguru said:


> Ok, so then why keep the HR44 series? They apparently admit that a consumer is capable of removing/attaching a power supply, and OTA tuner, and now disk.


The H44 was not a made to replace or upgrade any receiver on the market today (H25 can be upgraded to an H44 system) This STB was specifically designed to save money on production cost. There are folks out there that don't want or need DVR service, in the past DIRECTV® used to give out up to 4 HD boxes as part of the new customer promo. With the H44, they can now will have those same customers while reducing hardware cost. The H44 would never be offered to customer that ALREADY have a DVR, whether that is SD or HD. If you already have DVR service, you will get an HR34 or HR44 never an H44.

Folks that start with an H44, obviously are not in to DVR, as such 1TB HDD makes lots of sense since this will be their first look at a DVR, eventually if the become power users, I am sure that they would be able to graduate to a full blown HR64 by that time.


----------



## unixguru

RunnerFL said:


> Limiting the size of a drive is in no way crippling anything. It can be undone. The act of crippling is doing something that can NEVER be undone.


Disagree. Crippling can be either permanent or not. Very common in the technology world.

Crippleware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

_"software products whose functions have been limited"_

Putting the word aside, the 1TB limit is either "hard"/enforced or it isn't. If it is enforced then it is different than prior products.


----------



## unixguru

peds48 said:


> The H44 was not a made to replace or upgrade any receiver on the market today (H25 can be upgraded to an H44 system) This STB was specifically designed to save money on production cost. There are folks out there that don't want or need DVR service, in the past DIRECTV® used to give out up to 4 HD boxes as part of the new customer promo. With the H44, they can now will have those same customers while reducing hardware cost. The H44 would never be offered to customer that ALREADY have a DVR, whether that is SD or HD. If you already have DVR service, you will get an HR34 or HR44 never an H44.


That may very well be true but it is just more tactical chaos rather than a solid strategic plan.

Saving on production cost also means making 1 part instead of 2. Two birds with one stone. Making H44+HDD... *and* HR44... is stupid.


----------



## peds48

unixguru said:


> That may very well be true but it is just more tactical chaos rather than a solid strategic plan.
> 
> Saving on production cost also means making 1 part instead of 2. Two birds with one stone. Making H44+HDD... *and* HR44... is stupid.


Might be stupid to you, but for those that have to pay DVR service just because they get an HR44 an they dont want or need DVR service, it a bright idea!


----------



## unixguru

mexican-bum said:


> looks to me like a common 2.5" laptop HDD


Just saw this post. Yep, specs show HDD size as 3"x4.5"x0.5".

That explains the 1TB size. And being eSATAp powered. WD max 2.5" AV drive is WD10JUCT (1TB 3 Gb/s).


----------



## unixguru

peds48 said:


> Might be stupid to you, but for those that have to pay DVR service just because they get an HR44 an they dont want or need DVR service, it a bright idea!


I didn't say the H44 was stupid. I said making both series is stupid.


----------



## Phil T

Not if you want a HD receiver/DVR with a smaller footprint then the HR series.



unixguru said:


> I didn't say the H44 was stupid. I said making both series is stupid.


----------



## RunnerFL

unixguru said:


> Disagree. Crippling can be either permanent or not. Very common in the technology world.
> 
> Crippleware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
> 
> _"software products whose functions have been limited"_
> 
> Putting the word aside, the 1TB limit is either "hard"/enforced or it isn't. If it is enforced then it is different than prior products.


We're just going to have to disagree on this. The word "cripple" implies it's something that can never be fixed.


----------



## peds48

unixguru said:


> I didn't say the H44 was stupid. I said making both series is stupid.


Not if you step in DIRECTV®'s shoes.


----------



## carl6

I think we've had sufficient discussion on personal opinions on the H44 versus HR44. DirecTV has made a business decision with regard to the H44. You are welcome to agree or disagree, as many have in this thread. But continuing to argue (discuss and restate your opinions) back and forth is not productive. It is perfectly okay to disagree, but once you have done so, let it rest, please.


----------



## BarkingGhost

What is interesting is that today I called into DirecTV and mentioned that since my existing equipment is 4-5 years old or more that I might add an HR44. Unfortunately, while the CSR was eager to push me to do this, and convert my antiquated wiring to SWM(?), she said in no way could she insure that I was getting an HR44 vs. an HR34 (and only new customers were getting HR54).

I told her the reason why I hesitate in updating my hardware--even though DirecTV has tried to get me to do this for years--is that I always wind up with the oldest models inventory to what is in their inventory at the time. This is further emphasized by the inability to migrate external HDD to newer DVR units. So while add a new DVR is a nice move, I'm not going to do it for an HR34. I asked if there was some way I could acquire the product in retail and get a credit and she said NO.

I should have asked her if I make arrangements and the installer comes out can I refuse an HR34 and stand down. Time to call them back ...


----------



## carl6

If you order the upgrade, an installer will come out. Normally they call before they come. At that time (when he calls) ask him specifically if you are getting an HR44 and if not, cancel and reschedule the install. Politely tell the installer you will only accept an HR44.


----------



## HoTat2

BarkingGhost said:


> ... I asked if there was some way I could acquire the product in retail and get a credit and she said NO. ...


Also, be advised Customer Retention is the department you really need to speak to about arranging special deals like account re-credits for purchasing receivers from third party vendors.

First level CSRs usually have no authority or flexibility to offer such deals.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## harperhometheater

peds48 said:


> You guess is utterly incorrect! The H44 can serve RVU sessions without the added HDD, whether those are RVU TVs *or home brew RVU DIRECTV® clients.*


I've been reading this thread the last few days in hopes of possibly returning to DirecTV.

Can you elaborate on the statement and what you mean by...."or home brew RVU DIRECTV® clients "

How do I create my own RVU Client?


----------



## harperhometheater

For what it's worth, I'm getting an H44 instead of requesting the full DVR because here in HI at least, I highly doubt if I just order a DVR that I'll be lucky enough to get an HR44. It'll most likely be an old busted up HR34 that's dented, scratched and dog slow. Also, I'm mainly coming back to DTV for the NFL Sunday Ticket and better picture quality on NFL Network because Oceanic TWC's SDV picture quality for that and many other stations blows. What I want to do with the H44 is have DVR service during football season and then remove the HDD Kit to avoid the extra fees during the off season. I'll also knock down my package to the bare minimum Family Pack.


----------



## Supramom2000

harperhometheater said:


> I've been reading this thread the last few days in hopes of possibly returning to DirecTV.
> 
> Can you elaborate on the statement and what you mean by...."or home brew RVU DIRECTV® clients "
> 
> How do I create my own RVU Client?


He means the "C" series of clients. C-31 and C-41, etc. They can be served by the H44.

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## harperhometheater

Supramom2000 said:


> He means the "C" series of clients. C-31 and C-41, etc. They can be served by the H44.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Oh Ok. Yeah I know about those and have used them in the past. I just thought he meant something like being able to use some sort of PC to create a usable RVU client that I hadn't heard of before and since being gone. I was like *"WHAT?!?!?!"*  when I read that initially, thinking that's what "home brew" meant, haha!


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## Supramom2000

Yes, he did make it sound much more cool than a DTV client!

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## carl6

harperhometheater said:


> For what it's worth, I'm getting an H44 instead of requesting the full DVR because here in HI at least, I highly doubt if I just order a DVR that I'll be lucky enough to get an HR44. It'll most likely be an old busted up HR34 that's dented, scratched and dog slow. Also, I'm mainly coming back to DTV for the NFL Sunday Ticket and better picture quality on NFL Network because Oceanic TWC's SDV picture quality for that and many other stations blows. What I want to do with the H44 is have DVR service during football season and then remove the HDD Kit to avoid the extra fees during the off season. I'll also knock down my package to the bare minimum Family Pack.


Interesting approach. I don't know how well, or even if, that will work for you, but it should at least in theory.

I can tell you that you cannot get an H44 with HD to start out with. Nor can you get an H44 all by itself, you must get 1 or more clients with it also. If you just order non-DVR for one TV location you will get an H25. If you order DVR for one TV, you will get an HR2x. Genies are for multi-room installations.


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## samrs

I've done single room Genie installs.


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## dishinitout

carl6 said:


> If you just order non-DVR for one TV location you will get an H25. If you order DVR for one TV, you will get an HR2x. Genies are for multi-room installations.


Not quite. The Genies are available for 1 room installs but cost $99, not free. The H44 isn't available for 1 TV installs at all.


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## harperhometheater

carl6 said:


> Interesting approach. I don't know how well, or even if, that will work for you, but it should at least in theory.
> 
> I can tell you that you cannot get an H44 with HD to start out with. Nor can you get an H44 all by itself, you must get 1 or more clients with it also. If you just order non-DVR for one TV location you will get an H25. If you order DVR for one TV, you will get an HR2x. Genies are for multi-room installations.


I ordered the H44 from Solid Signal for $99, so I should be good to go.........

.......except for the fact that I just got the package via FedEx and while I opened it on the phone with DTV, as I took it out of the box I could hear something metal rattling around inside the unit  ! As I do it I ask the csr online if he heard that, and he's like "Yeah, I heard that, wow!" He said..."Just try plugging it in and see if it works". I was like, "are you crazy?!?! It's metal and it will short something out if I plug it into power!". He replies.."oh yeah, right" Duh! I had them put my entire order on hold. It's been an absolute nightmare from the start, so I'm contemplating just cancelling my whole return to DTV and staying with full Oceanic TWC with my awesome TiVo Roamios!


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## telero

dishinitout said:


> Not quite. The Genies are available for 1 room installs but cost $99, not free. The H44 isn't available for 1 TV installs at all.


If you order a Genie with one client to avoid the $99 charge, can the client be dropped from the account after the install?


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## west99999

Yes.


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## harperhometheater

I got an H44 with no clients, FWIW.


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## NR4P

harperhometheater said:


> I got an H44 with no clients, FWIW.


 Did you get a HDD? Or just wanted the 5 tuner receiver?


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## harperhometheater

NR4P said:


> Did you get a HDD? Or just wanted the 5 tuner receiver?


With the HDD Kit, yes.


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## inkahauts

harperhometheater said:


> With the HDD Kit, yes.


All at the same time? Did you order it and have it sent, or was it a new install? If you got it at the same time, you should have never been given that, you should have just been given a Genie, not a genie lite.


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## west99999

Had to be after the fact as techs don't carry the hard drive nor do they install them if customers have them already.


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## harperhometheater

inkahauts said:


> All at the same time? Did you order it and have it sent, or was it a new install? If you got it at the same time, you should have never been given that, you should have just been given a Genie, not a genie lite.





west99999 said:


> Had to be after the fact as techs don't carry the hard drive nor do they install them if customers have them already.


Yes sorry. It was after the fact that I ordered the HDD Kit for it.


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## inkahauts

Awh ok.


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## harperhometheater

But the original question was about being able to order the Genie Lite with no clients from what I recall, not whether I got the HDD with it. See below:



dishinitout said:


> Not quite. The Genies are available for 1 room installs but cost $99, not free. The H44 isn't available for 1 TV installs at all.





telero said:


> If you order a Genie with one client to avoid the $99 charge, can the client be dropped from the account after the install?





harperhometheater said:


> I got an H44 with no clients, FWIW.


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## inkahauts

If you call and bargain I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a genie or a genie lite for free for one room.


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## HoTat2

Just curious;

Is this DIRECTV comparison chart correct in that a Genie Lite + HDD cannot receive 4K and supply it's clients?

http://www.directv.com/technology/genielite

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## peds48

HoTat2 said:


> Just curious;
> 
> Is this DIRECTV comparison chart correct in that a Genie Lite + HDD cannot receive 4K and supply it's clients?
> 
> http://www.directv.com/technology/genielite
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


There might be some confusion there. There are (will) 2 ways to get 4K. One is the current method which is via VOD, this can be done with any Genie and a C61K or compatible RVU TV. The second one is with the HR54 when there is linear 4K. Perhaps when they say "Genie" they mean HR54. Very confusing....


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## HoTat2

peds48 said:


> There might be some confusion there. There are (will) 2 ways to get 4K. One is the current method which is via VOD, this can be done with any Genie and a C61K or compatible RVU TV. The second one is with the HR54 when there is linear 4K. Perhaps when they say "Genie" they mean HR54. Very confusing....


Ok thanks,

Was confused because thought the Genie Lite was equal in all respects to the HR44 once the HDD was attached. But then recently saw this chart ....

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## harperhometheater

HoTat2 said:


> Just curious;
> 
> Is this DIRECTV comparison chart correct in that a Genie Lite + HDD cannot receive 4K and supply it's clients?
> 
> http://www.directv.com/technology/genielite
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk





peds48 said:


> There might be some confusion there. There are (will) 2 ways to get 4K. One is the current method which is via VOD, this can be done with any Genie and a C61K or compatible RVU TV. The second one is with the HR54 when there is linear 4K. Perhaps when they say "Genie" they mean HR54. Very confusing....


I certainly hope it can! I'm about to take possession of a new Sony VPL-VW350ES for my demo room and new business selling tricked out, ISF Calibrated and tweaked Sony Projectors and I have the Genie Lite w/ HDD Kit in there now. It would be nice if I can just add the C61K to it for the 4K to show off some amazing demos to prospective clients! I already have a new TiVo Bolt 4K in there ready to go and plan to add a Roku 4 and new 4K FireTV as well.


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## harperhometheater

According to the Edgecutter Review of the C61, the H44 Genie Lite can indeed host it for 4K:



> DIRECTV C61K 4K Mini Genie Client Basic Specs: • Measures 5 3/4" by 8 3/4" by 1 1/4" • 4K Mini Genie client capable of live 4K content (When available) • HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 up to 2160p/60 • No component or composite output, HDMI only • 720p, 1080i, 1080p, 2160p • *Requires* *HR34, HR44 or* *H44...........*





> ..............Measuring in at 5 3/4" by 8 3/4" by 1 1/4", *the C61K is capable of outputting 4K UHD content over HDMI when connected as a wired client to* any Genie *or Genie Lite*.............


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## slice1900

But that edgecutter review is talking about Directv's current 4K offering, which is VOD only. No reason the H44 couldn't do that since the HR34, HR44 and HR54 all can (unless Directv disabled that in the H44 for some unknown reason)

What the H44 won't be able to do is deliver live 4K channels (when Directv starts offering those) since only the HR54 can do that. There was an official Directv document posted on the other site recently that specifically mentioned the HR54's support for bonded transponders (I'm still wondering how they're doing that, maybe they have a DVB-S2X supporting chip that is still not "officially" announced or perhaps more likely they are creating their own non-standard way for transponder bonding using DVB-S2.


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## harperhometheater

slice1900 said:


> But that edgecutter review is talking about Directv's current 4K offering, which is VOD only. No reason the H44 couldn't do that since the HR34, HR44 and HR54 all can (unless Directv disabled that in the H44 for some unknown reason)
> 
> What the H44 won't be able to do is deliver live 4K channels (when Directv starts offering those) since only the HR54 can do that. There was an official Directv document posted on the other site recently that specifically mentioned the HR54's support for bonded transponders (I'm still wondering how they're doing that, maybe they have a DVB-S2X supporting chip that is still not "officially" announced or perhaps more likely they are creating their own non-standard way for transponder bonding using DVB-S2.


I'm not so sure about that:



> The C61K client is also capable of outputting live 4K content as soon as live 4K is available.





> Currently 4K content on DIRECTV is limited to PPV programming and a few 4K demo programs. We look forward to the future as we believe there will be more 4K content including live 4K programming.


Maybe it has a tuner (4K capable) in it, unlike the other clients and similar to the Super Joey, or whatever they call it, from DISH?


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## west99999

harperhometheater said:


> I'm not so sure about that:
> 
> Maybe it has a tuner (4K capable) in it, unlike the other clients and similar to the Super Joey, or whatever they call it, from DISH?


According to the HR54 bulletin it is the only IRD that can get live 4k from the satellite and send it to 4k clients.


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## harperhometheater

OK, fair enough. I guess I'll just upgrade to an HR54 when that happens! 

The Edgecutter review doesn't even mention the HR54 though, so why would they say the C61 can do Live 4K if the 54 wasn't even in the equation of that review?


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## WERA689

harperhometheater said:


> OK, fair enough. I guess I'll just upgrade to an HR54 when that happens!
> 
> The Edgecutter review doesn't even mention the HR54 though, so why would they say the C61 can do Live 4K if the 54 wasn't even in the equation of that review?


Guess I'll have to as well. Progress marches on!


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## bobnielsen

slice1900 said:


> But that edgecutter review is talking about Directv's current 4K offering, which is VOD only. No reason the H44 couldn't do that since the HR34, HR44 and HR54 all can (unless Directv disabled that in the H44 for some unknown reason)
> 
> What the H44 won't be able to do is deliver live 4K channels (when Directv starts offering those) since only the HR54 can do that. There was an official Directv document posted on the other site recently that specifically mentioned the HR54's support for bonded transponders (I'm still wondering how they're doing that, maybe they have a DVB-S2X supporting chip that is still not "officially" announced or perhaps more likely they are creating their own non-standard way for transponder bonding using DVB-S2.


The H44 + C61K can do VOD 4K (that is the equipment I currently am using). I wonder if Directv can share 4K and regular HD on the same transponder. That way they could have a limited amount of live 4K programming without bonding, permitting the HR34, HR44 and H44 to access live 4K without letting some bandwidth go unused, which would be the case if they ran only a single 4K channel on a transponder.


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## P Smith

slice1900 said:


> But that edgecutter review is talking about Directv's current 4K offering, which is VOD only. No reason the H44 couldn't do that since the HR34, HR44 and HR54 all can (unless Directv disabled that in the H44 for some unknown reason)
> 
> What the H44 won't be able to do is deliver live 4K channels (when Directv starts offering those) since only the HR54 can do that. There was an official Directv document posted on the other site recently that specifically mentioned the HR54's support for bonded transponders (I'm still wondering how they're doing that, maybe they have a DVB-S2X supporting chip that is still not "officially" announced or perhaps more likely they are creating their own non-standard way for transponder bonding using DVB-S2.


Perhaps it just support ReverseBand what DTV choose to use for 4k linear channel(s) ? Without DVB-S2X support.
See here: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/200951-transponder-maps-domestic-dla-data-1142015/page-54#entry3395370


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## slice1900

There is no "support" required for reverse band, as far as receivers go they get a SWM channel and don't care what the original frequency of that transponder was. In order to tell the SWM to select that they have to be told what sort of LNB it is, which has been added to the list of choices on the satellite setup screen.


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## P Smith

slice1900 said:


> There is no "support" required for reverse band, as far as receivers go they get *a SWM channel* and don't care what the original frequency of that transponder was. In order to tell the SWM to select that they have to be told what sort of LNB it is, which has been added to the list of choices on the satellite setup screen.


Are you are serious ? SWM controller must guess ITSELF what LNBF/freq/FEC/etc need for a tuner by certain channel selected by user? Then think twice how FTM commucation built into IRD and LNBF+SWMswich. IRD's channel table has an index to NIT's record [Freq, etc] what have no FTM data.


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## slice1900

P Smith said:


> Are you are serious ? SWM controller must guess ITSELF what LNBF/freq/FEC/etc need for a tuner by certain channel selected by user? Then think twice how FTM commucation built into IRD and LNBF+SWMswich. IRD's channel table has an index to NIT's record [Freq, etc] what have no FTM data.


What I'm saying is that there's nothing special about it that requires "support" in a receiver. As you well know the SWM doesn't ever "guess" anything, the receiver tells it how to deliver what it wants on a SWM channel, using information it downloads from 101 that provides all that information. I don't know why you've decided to take over a certain beagle's role as a rabble rouser making pointless complaints about stuff you don't feel people have phrased correctly, but it is growing tiresome.


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## P Smith

because I did explain it in my posts


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## CBNAX

If you get an H44 installed and then put a HDD with it, can't Directv detect that you are doing recording and again charge you for the DVR service?


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## inkahauts

It won't let you record on a h44 if DVR service isn't activated on your account in the first place.


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## harperhometheater

Funny thing is, if you have DVR service from another DVR on your account, you don't actually have to activate the HDD Kit. It just works when you plug it in. I found his out the hard way a couple weeks ago when I cancelled the "other" DVR on my account and lost all DVR capabilities on the H44, not knowing they didn't activate the HDD Kit properly the first time. And then to top it off, the CSR was clueless about how and what it was anyway! 

(Not sure if this is already known here, haven't done any research yet and was planning to and then would've posted this, but it seems this was an opportune moment to do so)


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## trh

There isn't DVR service for the 'other' DVR; DVR activation covers all DVRs on your account.


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## harperhometheater

trh said:


> There isn't DVR service for the 'other' DVR; DVR activation covers all DVRs on your account.


I understand that, and that's not my point. I'm talking about how you don't have to activate the HDD Kit to get it to work. The only way I found this out and even knew it wasn't activated was when I cancelled the old DVR and removed it from my account. The CSR naturally thought "Oh, he doesn't need the DVR service on his account any longer since he doesn't have anymore DVRs" because he thought it was just a plain H44. Only it wasn't, it had an HDD Kit attached that WAS working fine, until the DVR service removal.

I made it a point of posting this info because I would think most people are under the assumption that in order for the HDD Kit to work, it needs to be activated, when in fact all that needs to happen is to have DVR Service active on your account and it'll work.


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## peds48

harperhometheater said:


> I made it a point of posting this info because I would think most people are under the assumption that in order for the HDD Kit to work, it needs to be activated, when in fact all that needs to happen is to have DVR Service active on your account and it'll work.


Correct all you need is DVR service active on your account in order for the H44 to gain DVR capabilities. The reason why it it EXTREMELY important that DirecTV is aware that your H44 has a hard drive is exactly in situations like yours where the system won't let the CSR deactivate DVR services since there would be another DVR on the account. And the opposite is true as well, you won't be able to activate DVR services without a HDD kit showing your account. Also when it comes to support, if your account shows H44 with HDD and need a replacement, DirecTV or a tech can replace the H44 with HR44/54 as long as the account shows the HDD kit, otherwise you will get another H44

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## harperhometheater

Great to know, thanks! I figured you experts here probably already knew this info.


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