# L216 Missing OTA Channels Temporary Fix



## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

I just got off the phone with Advanced Tech Support. They turned on the Cleveland locals for me for free as a temporary fix.

If you cannot get the same result from the tech you reach ask for ext. XXXXX when calling 800-333-3474. For quicker results you can leave a message at XXX-XXX-XXXX and an Advanced Tech. Support technician will call you back.

*From Mark: I'm sorry, but I've had to delete the phone number and extenstion in this message because the support people were getting completley inundated with calls.

If you need assistence getting your locals turned on, please send me an email at [email protected] with your name, receiver information (CAID, smartcard), your phone number and the reason you need your locals turned on, and I will send it directly to the support team who will either call you back, or will take care of your request.

Please, do not directly call them about this right now. Go through me - you will get much faster results right now.

Mark Lamutt*


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I've made this thread a sticky, but it looks like this is what the solution is going to be for the immediate future.

If you have lost your OTA channels on your 921, and do not subscribe to your Dish Locals package, by the end of the day today the system should be updated so that you can call in on the standard number and any CSR can add your locals package to your account and credit the charge back for one month. You will then be responsible for calling back after that month to cancel the locals again, and the downgrade charge will be waived for this, and only this action. If you do not call back and cancel your locals after the month is up, you will then be charged for the locals package from that point forward.

If you cannot wait until later tonight, or if you are unable to get this done through the normal CSRs, like I said in the message above, email your information to me, and I'll get it taken care of through the 921 team.

Note: If you currently subscribe to distant locals, I don't know how this process will affect your distant locals, and whether you will be able to keep them after the month is up. For those of you that fall into this category, *I would highly suggest going through me, rather than through the normal level CSRs.*


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2005)

How can this temporary fix include myself, someone who doesn't have a dish pointing towards the satellite with the locals in my area?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I don't know, gpflepsen. I don't think that it will solve the problem for you because of that.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

gpflepsen said:


> How can this temporary fix include myself, someone who doesn't have a dish pointing towards the satellite with the locals in my area?


Are you a non-subscriber to locals? Also did you get guide data in your locals during 215? It seems that non-subscribers that had guide info remapped to their locals lost the ability to get those very channels in the guide now thus prevents them from selecting them. If your locals are on another satellite then you wouldn't have ever seen them neither in the local section or the high 7000-9000 portion of the guide. If that's the case then you make an interesting point. How can activating the local cause the remap to occur because your guide would never see that guide stream?


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2005)

Non subscriber, I got guide info for an adjacent DMA with 215. I completely lost the adjacent DMA channels, both analog and digital, with 216. I never did get my local guide data.

I live in a DMA (Lincoln) which is only about 35-40 miles from the adjacent DMA towers (Omaha).

This makes me wonder is Omaha's LiL comes from the 110-119 sats. I guess if they turned them on I'd be set OK.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

More information: this temporary workaround will not work for you if you do not have a satellite pointing at the dish where your locals originate. 

Also, if you have grandfathered distants, and want to keep them, this won't work for you either, as adding the local package to your accounts WILL automatically cause you to lose your distants, and you won't be able to get them back.

If any of you fall into either of these 2 categories, email me your situation, who you are, where you are, your phone number, all of your receiver info, etc... I can probably do something else for you. No scammers, though - we will be checking your location and your account to make sure you fit in this category.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I don't know, gpflepsen. I don't think that it will solve the problem for you because of that.


*Mark: * How does remapping channels from the high end of the guide to the local actually work? 
Is it done through dishnetworks office and sent down the guide stream? 
Programmed through the software release itself? 
Programmed on the smart card?
For the people that lost OTA in the guide was it only those that had channels remapped? If "gpflepsen" lost his then I could loose mine or was he remapped but didn't know it.
Also what if after a month they haven't solved the problem, would the free local solution be extended?
Presently I'm afraid to reboot until I get a better understanding.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

95% sure remapping is a pure software issue. It looks like the only people that lost their OTA channels were the ones that do not subscribe to their dish locals package. I'd be extremely surprised if this takes a month to fix (of course, that's what I said after 215 as well...)


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

gpflepsen said:


> Non subscriber, I got guide info for an adjacent DMA with 215. I completely lost the adjacent DMA channels, both analog and digital, with 216. I never did get my local guide data.
> 
> I live in a DMA (Lincoln) which is only about 35-40 miles from the adjacent DMA towers (Omaha).
> 
> This makes me wonder is Omaha's LiL comes from the 110-119 sats. I guess if they turned them on I'd be set OK.


Lincoln-Kearney, NE requires superdish
Omaha, NE does not.

If they enable Omaha you'll regain service for that. But if they also enable Lincoln I don't think it will help you without a superdish. I'm guessing you were secretly remapped for both back in 215. I seriously doubt that dishnetwork would spring for a free superdish, unless possibly you agreed for a 1 year commitment.


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## bbomar (Oct 18, 2004)

jergenf said:


> If "gpflepsen" lost his then I could loose mine or was he remapped but didn't know it.


As I understand it gpflepsen is in a slightly unique situation (but one which I'm sure other folks are in). He was not subscribed to his DMA locals in Lincoln but received ABC, CBS, and NBC OTA locals from Omaha. Now, Lincoln locals are on the 105 satellite which he does not have a dish for. With L215 he started getting out-of-DMA guide data for the Omaha stations since they are on the 110 satellite which he receives. When they took away the guide data they also killed the Omaha stations for him. The only way to get them back would be to turn on the Omaha locals which by law can't be done since he is in the Lincoln DMA. Is it fair to say, what a mess.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> 95% sure remapping is a pure software issue. It looks like the only people that lost their OTA channels were the ones that do not subscribe to their dish locals package. I'd be extremely surprised if this takes a month to fix (of course, that's what I said after 215 as well...)


So these software releases determine what you're entitled to see from the guide. If the guide info that I'm seeing in the high range is not mapped to my locals then I won't loose my OTA? Or does that even matter if you can see it anywhere you're a canidate for this bug.
You're probably right it won't take long to fix this bug because now it's actually costing dish real money if they have to provide free channels versus just allowing free info.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

You are not a candidate for this bug unless you DON'T subscribe to your Dish locals. Doesn't matter if you see them in red in your guide or not. If you don't subscribe, you'll likely be hit. If you do subscribe, you definitely won't be hit. That's why the temp fix is to sub everyone that is affected.


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

Does this mean that within the free month, there will be another 921 s/w release, and that release will enable OTA guide info again for those people that do not subscribe to locals (which would seem to be a reversal of the Dish position)?

If not, it simply means that you are getting a free month of locals for your trouble, at the end of which if you want to keep the guide info, you will have to pay.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> You are not a candidate for this bug unless you DON'T subscribe to your Dish locals. Doesn't matter if you see them in red in your guide or not. If you don't subscribe, you'll likely be hit. If you do subscribe, you definitely won't be hit. That's why the temp fix is to sub everyone that is affected.


Thanks for clearing that up. I *don't subscribe*, fortunately I do have superdish and I am (with 215) seeing my local guide info in red so I guess I'll loose them if I reboot.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yes, you will. But, if you then send me the email, I'll pass it along, and you'll have your locals turned on for a month while this gets fixed.


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## Rotryrkt (Dec 11, 2004)

I just got off the phone with "advanced tech". I was told by the first tier CSR that all 921 problems had to go to them. The "advanced tech" CSR first told me that it wasn't her problem that my OTA antenna didn't work. After I recited nearly word for word what the workaround was for the L216 OTA bug, she came around and activated me. She was reading this info on her screen for the first time and had not heard of this problem before. Obviously, they are not all up to speed on this.

Thanks to you again Mark for keeping on top of this for us. Maybe one day you won't have any fires to put out when a SW update is released.

By the way, this workaround was my suggestion last night in another post on another thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=425709&postcount=77

Seems they do listen to our suggestions after all.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I've sent everyone's request in thus far that has sent to me, and have confirmation from the 921 team that they have all been assigned. 

CSRs should start seeing this as an option showing up here sometime tonight, but you're still better off going through me on this one I think. Your requests getting to them through me have been prioritized because of the data collection help you all were yesterday.


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## Scooters (Mar 15, 2003)

Mark: I don't have this problem, but a big THANKS AGAIN for going the extra mile to find a fix and personally walk each member's problem through the system!


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## larryw33 (Jul 22, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> 95% sure remapping is a pure software issue. It looks like the only people that lost their OTA channels were the ones that do not subscribe to their dish locals package. I'd be extremely surprised if this takes a month to fix (of course, that's what I said after 215 as well...)


I lost a FOX affiliate that broadcasts in my hometown which is not part of my subscribed local package. KFXK 31-01


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I am very glad to help with this. Keep them coming tomorrow, as I'll be around most of the day.


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## seadoo (May 28, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I am very glad to help with this. Keep them coming tomorrow, as I'll be around most of the day.


Mark:

I still dont have 019-01 WKPT FA 27 TRI-CITIES TN. HAVE OTHER NETWORKS. I SUBSCRIBE TO LOCALS.


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

I made the call last night, and was on the phone a total of 1-1/2 hours before it was finally resolved. The first-line CSR had no clue, so I asked to be transferred to ATS. The gal that finally answered there told me I had to talk to the "high definition" techs, since she wasn't able to help with hi-def issues. She tried to transfer me and lost me - had to start all over. After going all the way through the menus to the "high definition" team, I finally got through to someone willing to help. He took awhile to find the problem fix on his computer (said I was his first call on this!), and then very thoroughly explained the fix, the billing, when I had to call back, etc. I'm now back to where I was with 215.

Here's the problem: I'm back to where I was with 215. In other words, I have guide data in the local digitals for SOME, but not all primary (xx-01) channels (Kansas City market). Specifically, I have data for:
KCTV 05-1 (CBS)
KMBC 09-1 (ABC)
KMCI (38-1 (IND)
KSHB (41-1) (NBC)
KSMO (62-1) (WB)
I do not have data for:
WDAF (34-1) (FOX) (the PSIP # on this channel is different than the analog channel 4)
KCPT (19-1) (PBS) (understandable, since this channel is the PBS-HD national feed)
KCWE (29-1) (UPN)
KPXE (50-1) (PAX)

The guide data for all the locals appears in the analog (8000 series) channels, but not all maps to the digitals. Anyone have any idea why this would happen? It's really more a matter of interest than a true problem (except for FOX), but it will probably be a moot point, anyway, with L217.  

Brad


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Mark-
I had an appointment with a CSR to call me and it never happened. I see by posts here that they were probably hit from all sides last night after their confidential phone number was published here. 

Anyway- just so you know where I stand on this- If they call me as they promised in the e-mail ( I did do everything they requested leading up to their calling me) then I will proceed with their "month of free LIL service to get my 921 working on OTA again. However, if they do not do their listed next step then I will remain without the OTA function until they fix it with software upgrade which I suspect will happen within 6-8 weeks. 
As you know I do have the DirecTV account that has no issues like E* generates for itself in the 921. They just supply the OTA guide data without additional charge. I maintain that I will not pay for the guide data nor E* locals. I understand that many must pay for it because they have a need for E* locals for a variety of reasons. I do suspect that their temporary fix in this is a good trick to get more people to succumb to the $5.99 plus tax charges that would not normally pay for it after the one month is up. IMO, this is terrible business practice and is a "candy-man" sales approach.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Don, if you'll forward me the email, I'll make sure you get called. I don't agree with you that this temporary fix is motivated by a "candy-man" business approach. That may be part of the reasoning why management agreed to it, but I can tell you 100% positively that for the people fighting for this yesterday morning, that was about the farthest thing from their mind. This was the fastest way to get the affected users back to where they were before 216 hit.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Mark- I agree. Sorry- I should have said that the attitude of being a candyman was that of the marketing people/ management maybe, not the techs. In my work I have to wear both hats so I recognize the marketing angles and always believe that the techs only look at what will fix what doesn't work in the most expedient way. Usually techs have to be told when an idea has good sales potential. This "fix" does.


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## mignognarl (Sep 23, 2004)

Mark: If E* is so hot in getting us to paid for the OTA guide data. Why don’t they just rewrite the software “L217HECD-N” and charge a dollar just for the OTA guide data only. It seems to me that they’re wasting a lot of time and money on this issue. I be willing to paid a dollar and be done with the matter.


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

mignognarl said:


> Mark: If E* is so hot in getting us to paid for the OTA guide data. Why don't they just rewrite the software "L217HECD-N" and charge a dollar just for the OTA guide data only. It seems to me that they're wasting a lot of time and money on this issue. I be willing to paid a dollar and be done with the matter.


This has always been my stance, also. Why does it have to be all-or-nothing? L215 proved that you didn't have to be able to see the LIL's to get the guide data, so why not just institute a modest "local guide" charge of $1-$2 a month or $50 lifetime? The "lifetime" charge would, at least, get them through to the time when all of E*'s receivers would be PSIP-compliant. This would work for the 921, 942, and any future MPEG-4 DVR's, and I think it would be fair.

Brad


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## rkh (Mar 18, 2005)

I finally got the temp fix going a little while ago. The tech seemed to think that I would only get my "locals" back (Detroit stations I think, but don't know because I don't subscribe), but I got ALL of my scanned stations back. The surprise is that I not only got the guide data back for the stations I was getting with L215 (Detroit), but I am now getting data for ALL my scanned stations (except for some of the PBS as before). Anyone else seeing this ?? If I wasn't so cheap, and paid for locals would I get all this data or just for the Detroit stations ?

This is almost fun........ like the last time I hit my thumb with a hammer!!!!

Boot: 150B
Flash: F053
SW: L216 HEED-N


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

rkh - you'd get all of that guide data. That was what L215 was supposed to fix with all of this...guide data for channels from adjacent DMAs.


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## mick70 (Jan 26, 2005)

Just talked to an Advanced Teck and he said a fix patch was in the mill, that the good news now the bad it will take one week 28 July 05 the soonest. It patch is for the ones of us that are grandfathered for the distance signal and don't sub to the locals.


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## motrac (Jan 5, 2003)

mick70 said:


> Just talked to an Advanced Teck and he said a fix patch was in the mill, that the good news now the bad it will take one week 28 July 05 the soonest. It patch is for the ones of us that are grandfathered for the distance signal and don't sub to the locals.


What about the rest of us that did not sub. to the locals, I was happy having the ability to record my OTA hd channels. Yes I didn't not have guide info for them so I had to enter timers manualy but that was ok with me. This was the only reason that I purchased this receiver.
Now Dish has disabled my receiver from even being able to tune these "FREE"
to everyone OTA channels unless you pay them $5 more each month for the local satellite channels. It's not right that you pay $1000 for a receiver with certain features then after they get you hooked they take those features away unless you pay for them. 
Sounds like extortion to me. If it was like this from the beginning then I wouldn't say a word but to come home and go to watch the local news and not get that channel which I watched that morning this is not right.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

motrac-
Dish didn't do this with malice. They did it because they are incompetent and not capable of demonstrating they have a successful track record of developing trouble free receivers. They have demonstrated over and over their testing prior to release is inadequate as well. They have demonstrated they only have expedience to fix a problem with their software when it affects their income and then the "fix" suffers more problems. If you don't like this modus operandi, then you don't have to do business with them. There is no relief with the 942 either as that receiver has issues too, just different ones. I stay with Dish, now, for only two reasons. The 921 still works pretty well on satellite channels and Dish has VOOM 10 that direct TV does not have. If you place a high priority on OTA functionality, don't want to be extorted into paying $6.75 (Florida's Price) for guide data, then go with DirecTV HDTIVO. It's cheaper, better, and works!


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## SteveRS (Feb 8, 2004)

It's a miracle!
My HD OTA is back along with program info guide.

I did not notice until I checked DVR Record Event and saw Conan was recorded in HD.


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## SteveRS (Feb 8, 2004)

Oh Yeah, I forgot to thank Mark for his work in my behalf with Echostar.
Many thanks man!


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Bradtothebone said:


> so why not just institute a modest "local guide" charge of $1-$2 a month...


Aren't we already paying a "modest" DVR fee for the ability to record? Does that not include being able to create a timer from the guide? Full guide data for unsubscribed channels would be something of actual value Dish could provide to justify the DVR fee on at least the HD DVRs. Many believe the DVR fee is for the longer guide, why pay again? Then again, they're supposed to be displaying the basic PSIP guide that is part of a DTV broadcast.


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## motrac (Jan 5, 2003)

SteveRS said:


> It's a miracle!
> My HD OTA is back along with program info guide.


Is it back because Dish added the local package for your area? My parents who sub. to locals never lost or had any effect on the 921 after taking 216.
I moved 3 months ago from the Boston area to Florida ,as I have credit card auto pay I never notified Dish of the move. I sub'd to the Boston area locals which I'm
(except the spot beamed ones) still receiving and showing in my guide in the 8000's but the OTA's won,t even tune after taking 216 so I can't see how just adding the local sat. channels gives back the ability to tune OTA's. This is a shame because until now I didn't have one problem or complaint with my 921. I even taking my parents and 4 other family members into getting them.
What I'm curious about is why I lost mine when I have locals on my account.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2005)

motrac said:


> What I'm curious about is why I lost mine when I have locals on my account.


My guess is that you can't see the spotbeam.


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

It's not just any locals but the locals in your area where you are getting the OTA's from.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

Somewhere it was mentioned that one L215 fix was to provide guide data for OTA stations adjacent to the DMA of your subscribed locals.


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

Your right, I guess I didn't think about across the country but it shouldn't matter as you say.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

motrac said:


> Is it back because Dish added the local package for your area? .
> 
> I sub'd to the Boston area locals which I'm
> (except the spot beamed ones) still receiving and showing in my guide in the 8000's but the OTA's won,t even tune after taking 216 so I can't see how just adding the local sat. channels gives back the ability to tune OTA's.
> ...


The problem non-subscribers are having is the ability to map the OTA digital channels into the guide. They still exist in the tuner list (menu 6-8) so it's really a permission problem. Dish doesn't want non-sub to get their guide data and by mistake it's now blocking the actual OTA channels. The fix of allowing them to subscribe free for a month grants them the permission back. This will be fixed really soon as now this is costing dish real dollars.

The reason you lost local mapping may be more complicated. It may be due to the fact of moving to Florida and not receiving the guide stream from the spotbeam. 
Not only are you not receiving all the expected Boston channels but also unable to correctly map them to the expected digital OTA (from Boston) because now your Florida locals have different PSIP data. You may still have problems even when L217 comes unless you update Boston to your new home town (assuming they have local for them).


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