# HR10-250 HD Tivo Review



## Chris Blount

I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm

I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.

Thanks!


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## jsanders

Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.


Good review Chris!

When you enable the 30 second skip ahead, what button is it enabled on? Does it change the functionality of the fast forward button, or something else??


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## Mark Holtz

> What was interesting to me is that while activating the receiver, the CSR told me that the HR10-250 is NOT a Hughes receiver. She said it was made by DirecTV. Hmm.


One of the post-merger changes after DirecTV was made it's own seperate company was that Hughes was renamed DirecTV and given the stock symbol of DTV.


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## Guest

Did they charge you the standard service fee for the Tivo service? You can get the fee waived if you have the premium package on the Tivo SD. I was wondering if this is the case with the HD version.


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## Mark Lamutt

Chris, I have questions...  (and of course some of them are probably very stupid, as I've never seen a tivo box in operation)

On the off-air testing screen, does it allow you to test all channels between 2 and 69, or just the channels that are in your area based on zip code?

On the off-air testing screen, can you directly input the channel that you want to test, or do you have to scroll through channels until you get to the channel you want to look at? If you scroll, can you hold down the scroll button to skip over channels to get to the one that you want to look at?

Why would the signal level be different between the 2 OTA tuners?

The guide is 14 days? Using the standard directv guide, how long does it take to scroll from “current time” to the end if the guide?

Is there a way to jump forward X number of hours in the guide, or a “Skip forward or backwards 24 hours” command in the guide?

How about in the Tivo guide?

Are favorites set up from the guide, or are they entered manually with an on-screen keyboard? Or both?

Are you experiencing the audio dropout problems that other people seem to be having? Is it only on HDNet, or are other channels also affected?

How’s the overscan? I’d really appreciate a report on that using the HDNet test pattern broadcast Tuesday mornings at 8:00am EDT.

Being a non-tivohead, how do you manage disk space? For instance, with the 921 at any given time I’ll have a week or two’s shows that I want to watch, but haven’t gotton around to yet. And I’ll want to watch all of them. With the disk space free info, I know when I have to get with it and start watching before I run out of space or things start getting deleted. How would I adjust that mindset to work with a Tivo, where there is no indication of disk space left?

You only have a 30 minute live tv buffer? Is it the same for both SD and HD channels?

What happens if you don’t connect both satellite tuners?

Does guide data update all the time via satellite, or does the box have to be put into standby for the guide data to update?

Is there a screensaver?

What does “Random Access to Titled Programming” mean?

Does the box have the 10 second skip back feature, or is that also added with the code to implement the 30 second skip forward?

Do you lose FF and REW functionality when the skip forward and skip back features are initiated?


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## cracka

Thanks for the excellent run-down, Chris. Double-check that , though. Your HR10-250 might take it personally. :grin:


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## jsanders

Hi Mark,

I'm also trying to compare and figure this stuff out, as I have one of these boxes (unopened) in my livingroom. The choice isn't as slam dunk as everyone was suggesting, the 921 has some neat features that I really don't want to give up. I haven't switched yet, and I may well return the Tivo myself....



Mark Lamutt said:


> Are favorites set up from the guide, or are they entered manually with an on-screen keyboard? Or both?


I am curious about this one too. I have seen some suggest that favorites doesn't really work the way the 921 does, that you see all channels in the guide, even ones you don't subscribe too. That could have been a user still learning how to use it though....



Mark Lamutt said:


> How's the overscan? I'd really appreciate a report on that using the HDNet test pattern broadcast Tuesday mornings at 8:00am EDT.


This issue has been brought up at the tivocommunity board. It dosen't look like the HR10-250 has overscan problems, as eveyone was blaming the TV for the guy that was complaining. I haven't seen anyone yet talk about the *results* of looking at the test pattern with a calibrated TV, or by setting their tv to do underscan in order to see the edges of the picture.



Mark Lamutt said:


> What happens if you don't connect both satellite tuners?


This apparently works from what people are saying, just not able to record two shows.

Here is an interesting caviot though. The 921 uses the second tuner to download software updates. The HR10-250 apparently doesn't get software updates from the satellite, but from the phone line! You need the phone line connected, or have a serial port connected to a PC hooked to the inernet to get software updates. This is supposed to change in the near future.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Does guide data update all the time via satellite, or does the box have to be put into standby for the guide data to update?


Don't know about that. It is a pain to put it into standby mode. No off button on the remote, you have to go to standby by going through some menus. It appears that TiVo people leave their boxes on, so I suspect it doesn't have to be off. The guide is a dinosaur. The 921 guide is far faster than the grid guide here. The HR10-250 doesn't have the banner guide the 921 does. I use both the grid guide and banner guide to channel surf. Their guide doesn't have a picture in the upper right corner, it is overlayed over the picture. They claim that the grid guide will be made faster in the near future.

There is also no picture in picture on this machine. Not even for SD channels. The "live TV" button appears to switch between the two tuners if you are watching live, which is a neat feature if it is fast and no wait for channel switching.

Also, the component and DVI outputs can do 480i, so you don't have to switch inputs on your TV if you switch to SD mode.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Is there a screensaver?


Apparently not.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Does the box have the 10 second skip back feature, or is that also added with the code to implement the 30 second skip forward?


It appears that their "replay" function is 8 seconds skip back. I don't know what happens if you hit it multiple times.

The other one, is EITHER FF, or skip ahead 30 seconds, not both. It appears so far that there aren't even remote codes to do both if you want to get a universal remote. The remote is IR, not RF. The FF button isn't that great either. You get 2x, then 4x, then 8x, then it goes back to normal play. Oddly enough, I like having 4x, 16x, 60x, and 300x. You can watch a show in 1 min at 60x, or index through something very quickly at 60x or 300x.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Do you lose FF and REW functionality when the skip forward and skip back features are initiated?


It appears you loose FF when you do skip forward.


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## DBSPaul

I can take a thwack at some of these..



Mark Lamutt said:


> Chris, I have questions...  (and of course some of them are probably very stupid, as I've never seen a tivo box in operation)
> 
> On the off-air testing screen, does it allow you to test all channels between 2 and 69, or just the channels that are in your area based on zip code?


All channels between 2 and 69.



> On the off-air testing screen, can you directly input the channel that you want to test, or do you have to scroll through channels until you get to the channel you want to look at? If you scroll, can you hold down the scroll button to skip over channels to get to the one that you want to look at?


There doesn't seem to be a direct entry option. (I tried.) This is very similar to how the transponder test screen has worked on combo units from day 1.



> Why would the signal level be different between the 2 OTA tuners?


For me, it's always the case, but that is because the strengths are bouncing all over the place (multipath). You know why there. This frequently happens with the transponder tests as well, although it'll be just off by 1-2 between tuners. Depends on how the ATSC tuners are reporting strengths, etc.



> The guide is 14 days? Using the standard directv guide, how long does it take to scroll from "current time" to the end if the guide?


Don't use the grid guide, so can't answer that one.



> Is there a way to jump forward X number of hours in the guide, or a "Skip forward or backwards 24 hours" command in the guide?


In the Tivo-style guide, if you press "info", you get a screen that lets you change between guide styles, all channels, channels you receive, and favorites. Also, you can specify a day and time. That is how I jump forward if I need more than a day or so.



> Are favorites set up from the guide, or are they entered manually with an on-screen keyboard? Or both?


Both "favorites" and "channels you receive" are entered in a menu (Messages&Setup->Settings->Channels, and then you have "Channels You Receive", "Favorite Channels", and "Off-Air Channels"). You select each one as a checkbox, although favorite channels is a subset of channels you receive.



> You only have a 30 minute live tv buffer? Is it the same for both SD and HD channels?


Two 30 minute live TV buffers are going, and it doesn't matter if you are on SD or HD channels. It's 30 minutes for each.



> Does guide data update all the time via satellite, or does the box have to be put into standby for the guide data to update?


No. TiVos are always on and recording. Standby just blanks the video outputs. So it gets guide data all the time via satellite. APG just slowly spools guide data off one transponder at 101.



> Does the box have the 10 second skip back feature, or is that also added with the code to implement the 30 second skip forward?


Yup. Skip back is a button with an arrow that curls around. 30 sec skip forward is really just changing the function of the skip to tick button.



> Do you lose FF and REW functionality when the skip forward and skip back features are initiated?


No. Those are separate buttons. FF and REW always work.


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## jsanders

DBSPaul said:


> Yup. Skip back is a button with an arrow that curls around. 30 sec skip forward is really just changing the function of the skip to tick button.
> 
> No. Those are separate buttons. FF and REW always work.


Oh, cool, I was wrong about that one, and I am glad I am wrong. Seems silly not to have skip ahead and FF.


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## Lee L

> *By Mark Lamutt*
> 
> Does guide data update all the time via satellite, or does the box have to be put into standby for the guide data to update?


That is the thing I like the most about this thing so far. I do not have to care at all what state I leave it in at night. No need to tune to a certain channel, no need to not leave it at the end of a played back recording, no little workarounds for this or that, nothing. Just do what you want when you want and the box just works and works.

Also, to reiterate, FF and REW are always there, whether you have activated teh 30 second skip or not. IF the 30 second skip is not activated, teh button skips to a tick mark on the prgress bar, this could be usefull to blow buy 15 minutes at once if you record a show with a lot of padding because it started late, but not much else I can think of.

Incedentally, my wife who loves the 30 second skip and said she could never live without it has started using the FF to skip commercials already. It works great since the TiVo backs up a few seconds when you press play.


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## Capmeister

Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/hr10_250_review.htm
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.
> 
> Thanks!


Can you check the closed captioning features?


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## Chris Blount

John Gillardi said:


> Did they charge you the standard service fee for the Tivo service? You can get the fee waived if you have the premium package on the Tivo SD. I was wondering if this is the case with the HD version.


Yes, the Tivo service fee is also waived on the HR10-250 when you subscribe to the Total Choice Premier just like on the SD Tivo.


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## Chris Blount

Okay let see if I can answer some of your questions.

BTW: Thanks DBSPaul for helping. Beta testers can be a pain in the ass sometimes can't they? :lol:



Mark Lamutt said:


> Are you experiencing the audio dropout problems that other people seem to be having? Is it only on HDNet, or are other channels also affected?


I haven't heard any audio dropout problems yet but I will keep an ear out.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Being a non-tivohead, how do you manage disk space? For instance, with the 921 at any given time I'll have a week or two's shows that I want to watch, but haven't gotton around to yet. And I'll want to watch all of them. With the disk space free info, I know when I have to get with it and start watching before I run out of space or things start getting deleted. How would I adjust that mindset to work with a Tivo, where there is no indication of disk space left?


The Tivo has no "disk space remaining". I personally don't miss it. What I do is when I think I will run out of space, I go through the list of recordings and tell the Tivo not to delete them until I delete them. It's the same thing as the "protect" feature on the 5xx series. Others might have different ways to manage their recordings but that's how I do it.



Mark Lamutt said:


> Is there a screensaver?


As far as I know, no.



Mark Lamutt said:


> What does "Random Access to Titled Programming" mean?


 Basically that just means the program guide

There is one thing that should be said that I probably should have included in the review. When I switched from Dish to DirecTV, I had a 721 which has very similar software to the 921. There were a few things that I really liked about the 721. Namely, the grid guide was pretty fast making it easier to jump around and find programming and the caller ID.

Ever since I started using Tivo, I use the guide much less. The Tivo has a very rebust search feature that is much more useful than the Dish search software. Also, with the season pass feature, the wishlist and the "To Do" list, you don't need to be fishing around in the guide looking for changes in programming or to verify that your recording is setup and ready to fire. So you see, the guide issues are really not an issue. The thing just works without having to babysit the timers.

When I switched last November, it was quite a culture shock going from Dish DVR software to Tivo software. They are different systems and use different methods to an end.

I will tell you this though, the Tivo software does something that is very important that makes it a no-brainer (at least for me). It's stable and it works well with little hassle. Those facts themselves are worth not having caller ID or a fast grid guide (which I don't use anyway).


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## bonscott87

Mark. A lot of your questions are more generic Tivo questions vs. specific to the HD-Tivo. Pretty much how the regular DirecTivo functions is how the DirecHD-Tivo will function.


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## Mark Lamutt

Thanks for the answers guys. Here's a followup/clarification of one that I was really asking. 

My favorites question, setting them up via guide or text entry - I was really trying to ask about setting season pass recordings up, not channel lists (although those were good answers as well). Do you set season passes up from the guide, by direct text entry, or both?

And the off-air tuning screen - What I'm really looking for in an answer is if you can scroll through the channels quickly (2-69) or does the box test for each channel as you move up the list?

(And no, I'm not really considering switching - my questions are all to satisfy my own curiosity, as I've never used one of these things before.)

Oh, and another question - do you have to have at least one of the sat tuners connected to watch your recorded programming? IE - can you disconnect the box from the satellite and still watch what's been recorded?


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## Mark Lamutt

bonscott87 said:


> Mark. A lot of your questions are more generic Tivo questions vs. specific to the HD-Tivo. Pretty much how the regular DirecTivo functions is how the DirecHD-Tivo will function.


I believe that I did apologize for the stupid questions before starting...


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## Lee L

You can set a seson pass up from the guide or by selecting a show that came up as the result of a search. You can also do a one time record as well.


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## Chris Blount

cracka said:


> Thanks for the excellent run-down, Chris. Double-check that , though. Your HR10-250 might take it personally. :grin:


Yikes! Thanks for letting me know about that. It's fixed now.


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## Mark Lamutt

How long does a search take? On the 921 it can take several minutes, which I find pretty unacceptable.


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## DBSPaul

Chris Blount said:


> Okay let see if I can answer some of your questions.
> 
> [Mark's question about the screensaver]
> 
> As far as I know, no.


Actually, in almost all the menus, there is a timeout which will return you to LiveTV.

One trick I use for bathroom breaks or such is to grab a "black screen" (right as a show is going to commercial or coming back from commercial), hit pause, and the time bar will go away after a number of seconds. Voila. Black screen and a few minutes to do what I need to.


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## Lee L

Mark, when you search with either the SD TiVo or the HR10-250, each letter you type narrows the search, the results of which are displayed on the side of the screen. You can scroll over to the results any time you want. After typing each letter, there is maybe a 1 second delay as the narrowed results are shown.


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## Mark Lamutt

That search technique is very cool!


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## DBSPaul

Mark Lamutt said:


> My favorites question, setting them up via guide or text entry - I was really trying to ask about setting season pass recordings up, not channel lists (although those were good answers as well). Do you set season passes up from the guide, by direct text entry, or both?


Pretty much any time you select to record something, you will get one of three options:

Record this showing
Season Pass and other options
Don't record this showing

It kindof varies a bit (sometimes there is an options box next to Record this showing, which allows you to add padding, etc.). Season Pass gives you more options to choose from: First Run or Repeats and First Run, how many episodes to keep, padding, etc.



> And the off-air tuning screen - What I'm really looking for in an answer is if you can scroll through the channels quickly (2-69) or does the box test for each channel as you move up the list?


Actually, I assumed it would be quick, like the satellite transponder tests, but actually you have to give it a few seconds to do a channel strength test, so it is very easy to blow by an actual HD channel. I did this at first and had to go dig up my Denver HD to UHF channel mapping to figure out what channels to settle on.


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## Chris Blount

Mark,

Here is an example of the search feature. Each letter you enter narrows the search. You see how I only needed to get as far as "SURV" before it found the Survivor stuff.


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## Chris Blount

Capmeister said:


> Can you check the closed captioning features?


Good catch! Here is a screen grab of what closed captioning options are available. I will also add this to the review.


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## Chris Blount

Here is another addition to the review. This shows what happens when you press the "Ratio" button on the remote. It cycles through the two options which are "Full" (anamorphic) and "Panel" (Letterboxed)

Now if there was only a "zoom".


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## jsanders

Chris Blount said:


> Mark,
> 
> Here is an example of the search feature. Each letter you enter narrows the search. You see how I only needed to get as far as "SURV" before it found the Survivor stuff.


Let's say the show has more than one word like, "Judging Amy". Since, typing, "judg" may well bring up a lot of different shows, can you look for "Amy", and have it still find it?


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## spanishannouncetable

jsanders said:


> Let's say the show has more than one word like, "Judging Amy". Since, typing, "judg" may well bring up a lot of different shows, can you look for "Amy", and have it still find it?


Using a simple title-only search, no. Title searches start with the first letter of the program title.

Using a Wishlist title search, yes. Wishlists can be customized to search for partial words or entire phrases. Quotation marks (" ") and wildcards (*) can be added to make the search as broad or narrow as you like. Wishlist searches can look for actors, directors, keywords or phrases and titles.


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## DBSPaul

spanishannouncetable said:


> Using a simple title-only search, no. Title searches start with the first letter of the program title.


Don't forget about specifying category and sub-category in a title search. These can help you to narrow down the number of show titles shown. (Example: if you specify "drama" as the category and then do the "judg" search, you're not going to see Judge Judy, etc.in the list.)


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## jsanders

Very cool stuff about the search options.... This disucssion seems to lead me to believe that the TiVo unit is based on a paradigm centered around watching recorded shows vs. watching live TV -and- watching recorded shows. Does this assesment seem correct?


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## MagicConch

Does it have a stretch mode? (ie stretch 480 material to fill up 16:9. I read review and questions but I can't tell) I was hoping the stretch on this unit would beat the one on my TV


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## Throwbot

Chris , thanks for the review, and cool pics.
What's not to like is what I get from it all.
I will hopefully get one before my 1 years commitment runs out. 
What do you lot think? I'm betting they must have some "guru" nerdy whiz kid who developed the software for the Tivo. If true, kids a true genius. Only wish Charlie could lure him away with mega bucks. Wonder if all the guys at Eldon go home and switch on their Tivos?
Are you considering an "Official Direct TV HR10-250 HD Tivo support forum?"


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## DBSPaul

jsanders said:


> Very cool stuff about the search options.... This disucssion seems to lead me to believe that the TiVo unit is based on a paradigm centered around watching recorded shows vs. watching live TV -and- watching recorded shows. Does this assesment seem correct?


*ding* *ding* *ding* We have a winner!! I've been trying to come up with a concise (with TiVo, nothing is concise) description of the "paradigm shift" that comes with using the unit. I may perhaps put it together (call it "TiVology 101").

Essentially, once you have your Season Passes, WishLists, etc. set up the unit becomes an "agent" who scours through the guide info looking for shows based upon criteria you have told it you want to see, and schedules the recordings for you. As with everything, it isn't perfect (a lot of that comes in the form of inconsistent guide data for some shows, which don't correctly list as first run or repeat), but I probably actually use the on-screen guide 1-2 times a week between all the units I have. One-time recordings of things I hear about via other sources I schedule through the menus as it is faster than driving the guide to whatever day and channel.

During the summer, I might scour around if I don't have anything on the hard drive to watch, but even then I can use the Suggestions (if you've trained your unit with thumbs up and thumbs down) to find upcoming shows to record during dry spells.

This doesn't mean I don't watch live TV, however - most nights I will make certain a tuner is on the channel I watch the 10pm news ahead of time, go ahead and watch recorded shows, and typically about 10:20ish I'll go to the news, rewind, and watch just what parts I care about. And then typically I'll see who is on Leno (behind real time) and go off and do other things if it isn't interesting. I'm always very creative about using the 30 minute buffer on each tuner to my advantage.


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## mini1

does the HD DirecTivo bookmark shows on playback? Say if I start watching recording program #1 and then I want to stop/pause #1 and watch recorded program #2, then stop/pause and come back to the same point where I left off on recorded porgram #1, without having to FF to the point where I left off before. sort of like a VHS tape and a VCR in a way. I have really never seen any mention of this before. do any of you owners know, or could try this out and tell me?


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## jsanders

mini1 said:


> does the HD DirecTivo bookmark shows on playback? Say if I start watching recording program #1 and then I want to stop/pause #1 and watch recorded program #2, then stop/pause and come back to the same point where I left off on recorded porgram #1, without having to FF to the point where I left off before. sort of like a VHS tape and a VCR in a way. I have really never seen any mention of this before. do any of you owners know, or could try this out and tell me?


Good question, I would like to know that one too. On the 921, it is the 'resume' selection.....


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## DBSPaul

mini1 said:


> does the HD DirecTivo bookmark shows on playback? Say if I start watching recording program #1 and then I want to stop/pause #1 and watch recorded program #2, then stop/pause and come back to the same point where I left off on recorded porgram #1, without having to FF to the point where I left off before. sort of like a VHS tape and a VCR in a way. I have really never seen any mention of this before. do any of you owners know, or could try this out and tell me?


Absolutely. Any time you stop a watching a recorded show (explicit pause, left arrow, hitting the DirecTV [for those of us old timers, the "TiVo"] button, etc.) the unit remembers where you stopped. When you go back to the entry in the "Now Playing" screen for that show, you'll see a "Resume Playing" instead of "Play".


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## Lee L

jsanders said:


> Let's say the show has more than one word like, "Judging Amy". Since, typing, "judg" may well bring up a lot of different shows, can you look for "Amy", and have it still find it?


That would be a difficult one, but remember, you can scroll over to the results and then scroll down at any time. With the page down it is not too bad.


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## CAL7

Lee L said:


> Incedentally, my wife who loves the 30 second skip and said she could never live without it has started using the FF to skip commercials already. It works great since the TiVo backs up a few seconds when you press play.


With my HR10-250, the FF immediately pops up the status bar, but there is a distinct delay before it begins moving at FF speeds. It is probably 1.5 to 2 seconds. This isn't too bad for a commercial, but for quick little advances (like between pitches in a game), it is annoying. I haven't seen this reported elsewhere - anybody confirm it?


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## Steve Mehs

Excellent, excellent review Chris! Today I was talking to a classmate of mine who has had an HDTV for 3 years now, and just started subscribing to HD channels a few months ago. He had DirecTV years ago, then when Power Link came out he went with Adelphia's complete package, and got the HD channels in January. He has been less then pleased with Adelphia on the TV side and wants DirecTV back, and wants the HDTiVo, I'm emailed him the link to your review about 5 minutes ago.



> TiVos are always on and recording. Standby just blanks the video outputs.


That right there is a huge advantage over Dish, and one that isn't mentioned much. It's cool being able to turn the TiVo on (well it's always on, but you know what I mean) and being able to rewind up to 30 minutes on each tuner. On the last NASCAR race my mom forgot what time it started and missed the first 45 minutes, just turned on the TiVo, flipped over to the second tuner which was on FOX from when I was watching a Simpsons rerun on her TV the day before, took it back 30 minutes and she was able to watch most of the race. It's little things like that that I love about the TiVo software.



> What happens if you don't connect both satellite tuners?


DirecTiVos work fine with only one satellite source connected, just can't watch and record two different things. When setting up the TiVo, it asks you if you want to have one or two tuners active. If you only want one select it, if you select two and only connect one, you'll get an error banner at the bottom of the screen.


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## CAL7

Chris Blount said:


> Ever since I started using Tivo, I use the guide much less. The Tivo has a very rebust search feature that is much more useful than the Dish search software. Also, with the season pass feature, the wishlist and the "To Do" list, you don't need to be fishing around in the guide looking for changes in programming or to verify that your recording is setup and ready to fire. So you see, the guide issues are really not an issue. The thing just works without having to babysit the timers.
> 
> When I switched last November, it was quite a culture shock going from Dish DVR software to Tivo software. They are different systems and use different methods to an end.
> 
> I will tell you this though, the Tivo software does something that is very important that makes it a no-brainer (at least for me). It's stable and it works well with little hassle. Those facts themselves are worth not having caller ID or a fast grid guide (which I don't use anyway).


With a Replay and a Dish 501/921, I thought I had enough Tivo-like experience that a real Tivo would not be too much of a culture shock. But, I can see this is going to take a while. I agree with Chris - having something that actually works makes it all worthwhile.

I hear what everyone says about the guide, but I still don't believe I can break my addiction. How hard could it be for DirecTivo to implement a 12-hour or 24-hour jump button?

Another guide quirk/question: When I am watching a recorded program, if I bring up the guide, it jumps to a live feed. With any other PVR, the playing program keeps going in the background. If I am watching an in-progress baseball game (can't help but cheer because I can now get YES!!) this is a real problem because I might be in the 7th inning and I don't want to see the end.


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## Chris Blount

CAL7 said:


> Another guide quirk/question: When I am watching a recorded program, if I bring up the guide, it jumps to a live feed. With any other PVR, the playing program keeps going in the background. If I am watching an in-progress baseball game (can't help but cheer because I can now get YES!!) this is a real problem because I might be in the 7th inning and I don't want to see the end.


Ya know, I forgot about that one. I agree with you, it does bug me that it switches to a live feed when I bring up the guide. The only workaround I could think of is to use the search feature instead of the guide if I am looking for something in particular. That way I don't fall into the trap of jumping to the end of the show accidentally if it's still recording.


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## Chris Blount

CAL7 said:


> With my HR10-250, the FF immediately pops up the status bar, but there is a distinct delay before it begins moving at FF speeds. It is probably 1.5 to 2 seconds. This isn't too bad for a commercial, but for quick little advances (like between pitches in a game), it is annoying. I haven't seen this reported elsewhere - anybody confirm it?


I've seen this too but it also happens on my SD Tivo. I seems to only pause when pressing the FF button one time to scan at the slowest speed. If you hit FF twice, the wait time is less than half a second.


----------



## Chris Blount

Mark Lamutt said:


> Being a non-tivohead, how do you manage disk space? For instance, with the 921 at any given time I'll have a week or two's shows that I want to watch, but haven't gotton around to yet. And I'll want to watch all of them. With the disk space free info, I know when I have to get with it and start watching before I run out of space or things start getting deleted. How would I adjust that mindset to work with a Tivo, where there is no indication of disk space left?


Mark,

There is one workaround that I forgot to mention. If I turn on "Tivo Suggestions", the receiver will record what it thinks I like and fill up all of the remaining disk space. That way, I can tell if I am running out of space when the Tivo suggested recordings (which are clearly marked with a special icon) start disappearing quickly or getting low. The Tivo Suggestions are always erased first because they hold the lowest priority on the hard drive.


----------



## Chris Blount

MagicConch said:


> Does it have a stretch mode? (ie stretch 480 material to fill up 16:9. I read review and questions but I can't tell) I was hoping the stretch on this unit would beat the one on my TV


If I understand your question correctly, yes, it will stretch 480 material to fill up 16:9. It's done very easily with the "Ratio" button on the remote. It works in both 480i/p AND 1080i as long as your TV is set to "full".


----------



## JLucPicard

Chris Blount said:


> Ya know, I forgot about that one. I agree with you, it does bug me that it switches to a live feed when I bring up the guide. The only workaround I could think of is to use the search feature instead of the guide if I am looking for something in particular. That way I don't fall into the trap of jumping to the end of the show accidentally if it's still recording.


What I've done with regard to this is when I'm recording a game and watching while the game is still going on (half-hour, hour behind, whatever) is to make sure the "live" tuner is not the one recording the game. That way, if I jump out for any reason, I won't see live-time game coverage - unless, of course, the "live" tuner is on ESPN or another game (happens a lot during football season) and I see the score on a banner or an update (argh!).

Another thing about the 30 minute buffer that I have found to be pretty cool (on the SD Tivo anyway - don't have my 250 yet but I would assume it's the same) is that if I get home from work at 35 minutes past the hour and I notice a program showing that looks interesting, if I hit the record button it will actually capture the recording a bit more than 30 minutes earlier - never figured out exactly how much but maybe ten minutes or so. So if I hit record on a show that's running live, I'll actually get about 40 minutes worth. That also means if I hit record about 15-20 minutes into a show that has the full 30 minute buffer going, I'll get about 20 minutes of the end of the preceeding show and it actually records over an hour if that show was an hour long (to the end of that program). My main point being even if the first part of the show is just out of the 30 minute buffer, by hitting record you may still catch the entire show.

To avoid the extra run-over at the beginning, I'll go into "Manually Record" and tell it to start at the time the program to be recorded started. That way it only records the hour instead of an hour plus. Helps if space is getting tight!

God, that got wordy - sorry!


----------



## Chris Blount

JLucPicard said:


> Another thing about the 30 minute buffer that I have found to be pretty cool (on the SD Tivo anyway - don't have my 250 yet but I would assume it's the same) is that if I get home from work at 35 minutes past the hour and I notice a program showing that looks interesting, if I hit the record button it will actually capture the recording a bit more than 30 minutes earlier - never figured out exactly how much but maybe ten minutes or so. So if I hit record on a show that's running live, I'll actually get about 40 minutes worth. That also means if I hit record about 15-20 minutes into a show that has the full 30 minute buffer going, I'll get about 20 minutes of the end of the preceeding show and it actually records over an hour if that show was an hour long (to the end of that program). My main point being even if the first part of the show is just out of the 30 minute buffer, by hitting record you may still catch the entire show.
> 
> To avoid the extra run-over at the beginning, I'll go into "Manually Record" and tell it to start at the time the program to be recorded started. That way it only records the hour instead of an hour plus. Helps if space is getting tight!
> 
> God, that got wordy - sorry!


I can happily report that it's the same way with the HD10-250. It's really funny you should mention this. It just happened to me this morning. The receiver had been buffering for about 40 minutes. I hit the record button right at the end of a 30 minute newscast. Instead of just recording the 30 minutes of news, it recorded the entire 40 minutes that the receiver had been turned on. Very cool.


----------



## Capmeister

Chris Blount said:


> Good catch! Here is a screen grab of what closed captioning options are available. I will also add this to the review.


Thanks! Does it WORK? In both digital/HD and normal?

The only thing I've been disapointed with VOOM about is the Closed Captioning not working.


----------



## Chris Blount

Capmeister said:


> Thanks! Does it WORK? In both digital/HD and normal?
> 
> The only thing I've been disapointed with VOOM about is the Closed Captioning not working.


Yes! CC works perfectly in all modes. Being able to change the font types and sizes is something I really like. Some of the fonts are very pleasing to the eyes and easy to read.


----------



## Tusk

Chris Blount said:


> If I understand your question correctly, yes, it will stretch 480 material to fill up 16:9. It's done very easily with the "Ratio" button on the remote. It works in both 480i/p AND 1080i as long as your TV is set to "full".


Chris, what does the full mode look like for 4:3 material. Does it look like ESPN HD full mode of SD material. I can't stand how squatty (is that a word?) everything looks. How is it with the HDTivo.


----------



## Chris Blount

Tusk said:


> Chris, what does the full mode look like for 4:3 material. Does it look like ESPN HD full mode of SD material. I can't stand how squatty (is that a word?) everything looks. How is it with the HDTivo.


Yes, everything looks "squatty" in stretch mode. That's one of the reasons why I mentioned how a "zoom" mode would be nice.


----------



## mini1

DBSPaul said:


> Absolutely. Any time you stop a watching a recorded show (explicit pause, left arrow, hitting the DirecTV [for those of us old timers, the "TiVo"] button, etc.) the unit remembers where you stopped. When you go back to the entry in the "Now Playing" screen for that show, you'll see a "Resume Playing" instead of "Play".


But I can I pause/stop 2 or 3 shows at once? and resume from the spot where I left off on all of the shows when I come back later to play them?


----------



## CAL7

Another thing (and this is probably common to all DirecTivo's).... I find it quite a chore to edit the "Channels Received" list. With Dish, these were designated by color; with DirecTivo, I get the whole list and no clue as to whether I am subscribed to the channel. I have no idea if I am supposed to have some of these arcane channels, so I have to go back-and-forth between channel setup and testing for the channel. Is there a better way?


----------



## dswallow

mini1 said:


> But I can I pause/stop 2 or 3 shows at once? and resume from the spot where I left off on all of the shows when I come back later to play them?


Yes, it remembers that point for each individual recording.


----------



## dswallow

CAL7 said:


> Another thing (and this is probably common to all DirecTivo's).... I find it quite a chore to edit the "Channels Received" list. With Dish, these were designated by color; with DirecTivo, I get the whole list and no clue as to whether I am subscribed to the channel. I have no idea if I am supposed to have some of these arcane channels, so I have to go back-and-forth between channel setup and testing for the channel. Is there a better way?


Unfortunately there's no better/easier way to do this; it's a common complaint.


----------



## mini1

thanks dswallow! geez this machine just keeps getting better.


----------



## bkanneg

I have a Sony 61" 4:3 HDTV that has a 16:9 squeeze mode on it. What would be the best settings on the HDTivo for this? I assume for HD stuff I would just use the 1080i 16:9 mode and on non HD stuff I would use the 480P 4:3 mode? Is this correct? Do I have to mess with the zooms? I just ordered mine today so it will probably be a while til it arrives!

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Chris Blount

bkanneg said:


> I have a Sony 61" 4:3 HDTV that has a 16:9 squeeze mode on it. What would be the best settings on the HDTivo for this? I assume for HD stuff I would just use the 1080i 16:9 mode and on non HD stuff I would use the 480P 4:3 mode? Is this correct? Do I have to mess with the zooms? I just ordered mine today so it will probably be a while til it arrives!
> 
> Thanks in advance.


That sounds correct but it really all depends on how your Sony works. I would guess you would set the HD Tivo for a 4:3 screen. When watching something in HD, set your Sony to squeeze mode and the HD Tivo to "Full" using the ratio button. Then when you want to watch something in 4:3, take your Sony out of squeeze mode. But, that's just a guess. Maybe others with 4:3 HDTV's will chime in here.

You may also not have to mess with changing to 480p. The HD Tivo will up-convert everything to 1080i if you wish.

When you get your HD Tivo, I would be very interesting in hearing your thoughts.


----------



## rms

I have had my HR10-250 for over 1 week, and not only have the menu's not gotten any faster, but I also experience audio drop-outs.
The on-screen guide is so slow that it makes the whole experience extremely painful. I am comparing it's speed to my Sat-60 Sony DirecTV dual tuner tivo and would expect all tivo's regardless of who manufactured them to confirm to some standard. When I contact support they act like they have no idea about the product and can't tell me if it's normal or not. 
I can't say that overall I'm left feeling a little duped, not even my retailer has one on display so I can't even compare it with another unit. 

Rony


----------



## jsanders

rms said:


> I have had my HR10-250 for over 1 week, and not only have the menu's not gotten any faster, but I also experience audio drop-outs.
> The on-screen guide is so slow that it makes the whole experience extremely painful.
> I can't say that overall I'm left feeling a little duped, not even my retailer has one on display so I can't even compare it with another unit.


That is the issue that is holding me back from installing mine. You actually can compare though. The Hughes SD Tivo has the exact same form factor (case), exact same remote, and exact same software, except no HD. My friend has one. They showed me their guide, and I was very much appauled by it, among other things.

I think it is important to understand the Tivo unit is really designed and centered around watching recorded material, and not as centered around live TV. With that in mind, the normal TiVo audience doesn't appear to use the grid guide so much.

I'm trying to figure out if that paradigm works for me.....


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## Chris Blount

Just FYI, I've added a few additional notes at the bottom of my review.

http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/#Updates


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## Chris Blount

rms said:


> I have had my HR10-250 for over 1 week, and not only have the menu's not gotten any faster, but I also experience audio drop-outs.
> The on-screen guide is so slow that it makes the whole experience extremely painful. I am comparing it's speed to my Sat-60 Sony DirecTV dual tuner tivo and would expect all tivo's regardless of who manufactured them to confirm to some standard. When I contact support they act like they have no idea about the product and can't tell me if it's normal or not.
> I can't say that overall I'm left feeling a little duped, not even my retailer has one on display so I can't even compare it with another unit.
> 
> Rony


I haven't added this to my review yet because I'm going to wait for a few more days to see what happens but I also see a slowdown in using the guide as compared to my SD Tivo. I use the Text Guide and while it's not as slow as the grid style guide, it's slightly slower than the text guide on my SD Tivo. I do see a large slowdown when the HR10-250 is buffering or recording HD content.

I would really like to hear from other users to see if they also experience slow guides and menus. One thing that really bothers me is when I bring up the "Now Playing" list, it takes a few seconds to list everything. On my SD Tivo, the list comes up instantaneously.

Like I said, the jury is still out because I've only had the HD Tivo up and running for less than a week.


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## DBSPaul

Chris Blount said:


> I would really like to hear from other users to see if they also experience slow guides and menus. One thing that really bothers me is when I bring up the "Now Playing" list, it takes a few seconds to list everything. On my SD Tivo, the list comes up instantaneously.
> 
> Like I said, the jury is still out because I've only had the HD Tivo up and running for less than a week.


Try it in 480i mode. It guide and menus are faster in 480i mode than 1080i on my unit.


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## jsanders

Here is a question for this board: How does the guide data work with sub-channels? Most of them just mirror the main channel right now, but not all. Just curious how well the HR10-250 works....


----------



## FlyingDiver

jsanders said:


> Here is a question for this board: How does the guide data work with sub-channels? Most of them just mirror the main channel right now, but not all. Just curious how well the HR10-250 works....


Well, it shows distinct listings for all the subchannels in my area. Specifically, KQED runs 5 subchannels and it shows all of them.

joe


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## jsanders

FlyingDiver said:


> Well, it shows distinct listings for all the subchannels in my area. Specifically, KQED runs 5 subchannels and it shows all of them.
> 
> joe


That's impressive. Thanks Joe.


----------



## Chris Blount

jsanders said:


> Here is a question for this board: How does the guide data work with sub-channels? Most of them just mirror the main channel right now, but not all. Just curious how well the HR10-250 works....


The answer to that is actually in my review. Take a look at this pic:

http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/images/guide_with_hd_stations.JPG

You will see that the local sub channels are labeled as 5-1, 5-2 etc.


----------



## Chris Blount

Okay, something happened last night. This morning I woke up and for the first time there was video preview listed on the "DirecTV Central" screen. That's no big deal but I noticed that the guide and menus are working at full speed! No slow downs or dragging like it's been doing since last Tuesday. 

So in my case, it took about 6 days for the HD Tivo to completely "settle" into normal operating speed.


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## Lee L

Is this the Chronicles of Riddick thing with a star beside it?


----------



## Chris Blount

Lee L said:


> Is this the Chronicles of Riddick thing with a star beside it?


 Yes


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## Chris Blount

Just added more updates to my review including a new screenshot of the grid style guide showing how HD content is labeled.

http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/#Updates


----------



## JoeQ

Maybe I am dense but I don't how to ue the dual OTA tuners when there is only ONE RF connector.


I have 2 leads comming from 2 UHF antennas (pointing at DC and Baltimore respectively) on the roof that I feed to my dual tuner,dual RF connector MYHD PC HDTV card.

How the heck do I connect this up on the TIVO so I get DC and Baltimore.

We know combining antenna signals don't work cause they cancel each other out and hence the various frequency attenutators that folks use.
In my case, I can not because DC and Baltimore have several 
spots' where the frequencies are too close to use attenuators.

How does this single RF input defy the laws of physics?

Thanks,
Joe


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## jsanders

Hey Chris,

How fast is the list guide that you show in your review? Is it zippy, or slow like the grid guide??


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## BrettStah

JoeQ, some people are able to successfully combine two antennas... maybe you will too:
http://www.svconline.com/mag/avinstall_antenna_tricks/


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## jsanders

I have two antennas on the roof btw, and I am using a splitter/combiner and a notch filter on one. The main thing to keep in mind is to keep the leads going to the splitter/comber to be the same length and use highly directional antennas. The other main thing, depending on frequency is spacing of the antennas. If you are just doing two antennas with just UHF bands, then you can put them fairly close together. If you want channel 2, then it was 8 foot vertical spacing if I remember right.

Have you tried an omnidirectional antenna btw? If that works, it is the easiest solution...


----------



## Mark Lamutt

JoeQ - the easy (and not terribly convenient) way to do it is with an A-B switch. That's what I do in Denver.


----------



## 1995hoo

Well, my HR10-250 arrived at the office this morning, as did my Silver Sensor, so I brought them home and set them up this evening and demoted my old TiVo to the kitchen TV (and activated the HD package, of course). I haven't gotten to watch too much yet, but some of the HD programming over the satellite looked pretty good. I can't give a fair assessment on the antenna because we were having thunderstorms and I'm not sure whether some of the interference I was getting was due to the weather or due to the antenna alignment (I didn't really have the time to fiddle with the signal strength test). I have also noticed how slow the onscreen guide is, but Chris Blount's comments give me hope that it will be operating correctly in a week or so--normally this would irk me, but I'm going on vacation next week anyway, so as long as it records my stuff, I'll be happy.

So far I've noticed two things that are of some concern:

(1) How long has it been taking before you folks find that the guide and the list of available programs are populated? I want to put my season passes back in before Wednesday night (I record both the 70s Show and the West Wing) and am wondering if the data will be there by then, or whether I should rely on the old TiVo (which will record them as a backup for now). I would really like to record the HD broadcast of the West Wing. I don't remember how long this part took back when I got my original Philips TiVo back in 2001 because the first one broke three days after I got it and I had to replace it!

(2) Does anyone have any idea why I am getting a sideboxed picture on some of the OTA HD programming? I have a Panasonic 51" projection 4:3 TV with no zoom mode. I told the HR10-250 that I have a 4:3 TV, that I want it to use Full, and that I want it to use 1080i. (Changing to Panel doesn't make any difference, however; neither does changing to 480i or 480p. My TV doesn't support 720p.) Some of the stuff on the local NBC and ABC digital broadcasts has been sideboxed every time. I could understand letterboxing (and I expected it), but sideboxing seems very strange on a 4:3 TV!


----------



## Chris Blount

1995hoo said:


> (1) How long has it been taking before you folks find that the guide and the list of available programs are populated? I want to put my season passes back in before Wednesday night (I record both the 70s Show and the West Wing) and am wondering if the data will be there by then, or whether I should rely on the old TiVo (which will record them as a backup for now). I would really like to record the HD broadcast of the West Wing. I don't remember how long this part took back when I got my original Philips TiVo back in 2001 because the first one broke three days after I got it and I had to replace it!
> 
> (2) Does anyone have any idea why I am getting a sideboxed picture on some of the OTA HD programming? I have a Panasonic 51" projection 4:3 TV with no zoom mode. I told the HR10-250 that I have a 4:3 TV, that I want it to use Full, and that I want it to use 1080i. (Changing to Panel doesn't make any difference, however; neither does changing to 480i or 480p. My TV doesn't support 720p.) Some of the stuff on the local NBC and ABC digital broadcasts has been sideboxed every time. I could understand letterboxing (and I expected it), but sideboxing seems very strange on a 4:3 TV!


The guide should be fully populated within 48 hours. I remember having at least a week's worth of guide data within 24 hours.

Some local digital channels broadcast continuous in 16:9 format but when the programming is not wide screen, the station inserts black bars on the sides. Your best bet would be to record non-HDTV material from your local channels coming from DirecTV (if available to you).

I do urge you to use the list guide rather than the grid guide. The list guide is much faster. It does take some getting used to but I think you will actually like it better the more you use it.

While I have seen a speed improvement today, the guide still slightly drags when tuned to a Hi-Def channel. When I know I will be doing some heavy duty browsing of the guide, I simply switch to an SD channel before starting.


----------



## 1995hoo

Chris Blount said:


> The guide should be fully populated within 48 hours. I remember having at least a week's worth of guide data within 24 hours.
> 
> Some local digital channels broadcast continuous in 16:9 format but when the programming is not wide screen, the station inserts black bars on the sides. Your best bet would be to record non-HDTV material from your local channels coming from DirecTV (if available to you).


I had pretty much presumed the latter prior to getting the unit, but it's good to hear confirmation. So it sounds as though the sideboxing is something that can't be helped, then. I guess it makes some sense. I noticed that the ABC "Who Wants to Be a Millionnaire" special was sideboxed on the OTA broadcast but not on the regular broadcast via the dish. It'll be interesting to see how the West Wing turns out this Wednesday.



Chris Blount said:


> I do urge you to use the list guide rather than the grid guide. The list guide is much faster. It does take some getting used to but I think you will actually like it better the more you use it.


I'll give it a go; just haven't had time yet.

Thanks for the thoughts on the sideboxing. I was quite vexed at first, and it was only more puzzling when I noticed that some OTA shows had it and others didn't. Your explanation makes very good sense.


----------



## JoeQ

Mark Lamutt said:


> JoeQ - the easy (and not terribly convenient) way to do it is with an A-B switch. That's what I do in Denver.


Mark,
The way I do it is with an IR controlled A/B switch.

With my MYHD PC cards, they accept dual RF leads so the integration in seamless. I don't need the switch.

I had the AB switch in my box of parts because I had to use it with my long gone earlier generation OTA HD PC card.

This A/B switch setup I had rigged up for the 921 and the switch is AFTER my PC card.

Joe


----------



## JoeQ

JoeQ said:


> Maybe I am dense but I don't how to use the dual OTA tuners when there is only ONE RF connector.
> 
> I have 2 leads comming from 2 UHF antennas (pointing at DC and Baltimore respectively) on the roof.
> 
> How the heck do I connect this up on the TIVO so I get DC and Baltimore?
> 
> How does this single RF input defy the laws of physics?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe


I guess I am dense. Actually, it is a mindset from 3+ years of messing with HD OTA PC cards where they only tune to one channel at a time.

The TIVO does not take dual RF inputs but rather it is able to simultaneously receive 2 different channels from the same antenna. 
KInd of like the TV's that support PIP because they can tune to multiple NTSC channels simultaneaously.

It is a way of thinking that I had not been doing.

I read "dual tuner" and my mind said " dual antenna inputs".

Hey, I actually am a very bright person, I sometimes just get an idea of how something should be and can not see the forest for the trees

Joe


----------



## Lee L

Well, the single antenna input in the HR10-250 actually is split once it gets inside the box so they could have just as easily put 2 jacks on the back. There are some pictures around here I think and over at Tivocommunity.com.


----------



## jsanders

Lee L said:


> Well, the single antenna input in the HR10-250 actually is split once it gets inside the box so they could have just as easily put 2 jacks on the back. There are some pictures around here I think and over at Tivocommunity.com.


Two jacks? Hmmm. If you do that, you could put one antenna on each input sure. Let's say antenna 'A' has VHF channels on it, and antenna 'B' has UHF channels on it. You tell the Tivo to record two programs at 8pm. Let's say they are both UHF channels. How does it do it? Let's say that you tell the Tivo to record two programs at 8pm, one VHF and one UHF. How do you tell the TiVo to record one show on Tuner 'A' which receives VHF channels, and one show on Tuner 'B' which receives UHF channels?

What you need for this are two jacks that are connected to the inputs of two multiplexers (switches). The outputs of the multiplexers go to the tuners. Software in the tuner has to control the multiplexer to see which input has the best signal for the program to be tuned to and/or recorded. The two inputs on an antenna can also be put into a combiner which is far less desirable. Either way, there is more involved than just putting on a new antenna 'F' connector on the back panel.


----------



## ramy

Does the HR10-250 output both HD and SD at the same time?


----------



## Chris Blount

ramy said:


> Does the HR10-250 output both HD and SD at the same time?


I ramy and welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s

As stated in my review:

_It should be noted that the HR10-250 does NOT have simultaneous outputs from the composite and S-Video jacks while in any of the enhanced or high definition modes. What that means is that only the component and HDMI jacks are active while in 480p, 720p or 1080i._

So in answer to your question, no.


----------



## JoeQ

jsanders said:


> Two jacks? Hmmm. If you do that, you could put one antenna on each input sure. Let's say antenna 'A' has VHF channels on it, and antenna 'B' has UHF channels on it. You tell the Tivo to record two programs at 8pm. Let's say they are both UHF channels. How does it do it? .


Quite simply. The SW keeps a map of which channels go with which RF input.

The dual RF input OTA MYHD HDTV card already does this. 
When you first set the card up, during the channel scan, the SW maps which channel goes to which antenna input. It does not care if it is VHF or UHF.

When you schedule a recording via the program guide, it fills in the Antenna input # when you select the channel.
When you select a channel to watch, it switches to ANT A or B depending upon the mapping.

Besides, this card does 1080i upconversion of DVD's

No offense intended but I am new to the TIVO forum since I just got the HD TIVO but I sense that some of you *only* frequent this forum and so don't think outside the box because this is the only view of the Video technology world you ever see.
May I suggest that those that fit the description frequent other techie forums like avsforum,dbstalk,satguys,etc.

A good example is MY confusion over the dual OTA tuner with only one RF input. Several folks did not even consider the idea that anyone would run 2 antennas into a tuner. I kept getting PM's that said 'it splits the signal inside the TIVO"

Please, my intent is not to offend anyone. It is just that I have seen some really smart folks in here that are able to do things like expand the TIVO but the view of A/V euipment seems kind of narrow.

Joe


----------



## jsanders

JoeQ said:


> Quite simply. The SW keeps a map of which channels go with which RF input.
> 
> The dual RF input OTA MYHD HDTV card already does this.
> When you first set the card up, during the channel scan, the SW maps which channel goes to which antenna input. It does not care if it is VHF or UHF.
> 
> When you schedule a recording via the program guide, it fills in the Antenna input # when you select the channel.
> When you select a channel to watch, it switches to ANT A or B depending upon the mapping.


Hey JoeQ, I think we are in agreement here. I was trying to point out that you need more than just an extra 'F' connector for multiple antenna inputs to work, that there needed to be some hardware, a multiplexer (switch), connected two both inputs, connected to both tuners, with software to control the switch. What some were suggesting would have rendered their dual tuners to be dual half tuners which is equivalent to a single tuner. Without the switch and software, they could record some channels on one tuner, and some channels on another tuner, not very efficient. Yes, thinkng outside of the TiVo box is a good idea.


----------



## Guest

First off, thanks so much for this review. It's been tough to find a single source of information on this unit and your review does a great job of that.

I have a few questions for anyone that's used the HR10-250:

1. Am I understanding correctly that the unit has the ability to output 1080i no matter what the source is? i.e. it upconverts all source to 1080i? I've got a Loewe Aconda CRT and its a pain to switch inputs from 480i to 1080i and vice versa. 

2. Which tuners are simultaneous (assuming I've got a triple LNB and OTA antenna)?
a. 2 SD programs at the same time (I'm assuming yes)
b. 1 SD program and 1 OTA HD program at the same time
c. 1 SD program and 1 HD program from DirecTV (like HBOHD)
d. 1 OTA HD program and 1 DirecTV HD program
e. 2 OTA HD programs
f. 2 DirecTV HD programs

3. Do the 30 min. buffers apply to the HD content as well or are they shortened?

4. Is the difference between SD and HD content as seemless as it sounds? i.e. Do the HD recorded programs show up as normal and are they manipulated just like all the stuff I have on my regular tivo?

5. Is there a perceptible difference in image quality of recorded vs. live HD content? If so, is there a quality adjustment like there is for standard Tivos today?

Thanks in advance,
-Jealous real-time HD consumer


----------



## FlyingDiver

jubea said:


> First off, thanks so much for this review. It's been tough to find a single source of information on this unit and your review does a great job of that.
> 
> I have a few questions for anyone that's used the HR10-250:
> 
> 1. Am I understanding correctly that the unit has the ability to output 1080i no matter what the source is? i.e. it upconverts all source to 1080i? I've got a Loewe Aconda CRT and its a pain to switch inputs from 480i to 1080i and vice versa.


That's correct.



jubea said:


> 2. Which tuners are simultaneous (assuming I've got a triple LNB and OTA antenna)?
> a. 2 SD programs at the same time (I'm assuming yes)
> b. 1 SD program and 1 OTA HD program at the same time
> c. 1 SD program and 1 HD program from DirecTV (like HBOHD)
> d. 1 OTA HD program and 1 DirecTV HD program
> e. 2 OTA HD programs
> f. 2 DirecTV HD programs


All of the above. Any 2 of the four, and it doesn't matter if the satellite tuner is pulling in HD or SD.



jubea said:


> 3. Do the 30 min. buffers apply to the HD content as well or are they shortened?


I think probably, but since i never watch live TV (buffered or otherwise), I'm not sure.



jubea said:


> 4. Is the difference between SD and HD content as seemless as it sounds? i.e. Do the HD recorded programs show up as normal and are they manipulated just like all the stuff I have on my regular tivo?


Yes



jubea said:


> 5. Is there a perceptible difference in image quality of recorded vs. live HD content? If so, is there a quality adjustment like there is for standard Tivos today?


Nope. It's recording the original DIGITAL datastream, just like for satellite. No changes at all.

joe


----------



## Chris Blount

jubea said:


> 3. Do the 30 min. buffers apply to the HD content as well or are they shortened?


It buffers an entire 30 minutes for HD.


----------



## 1995hoo

Here's a thought I had last night on the 30-minute buffer. If you leave the unit set at 1080i all the time, will the 30-minute buffer eat up more of the space on your HR10-250 than it would if you flipped it to 480i (assuming you know it won't be recording any HD for a while)? On the one hand, flipping it back and forth is a pain; on the other hand, come this fall (I don't record much during the summer), it might be important to know.

Or does it buffer in whatever format the station is broadcasting and then upconvert it to whatever mode you have the output set for? I haven't really had time to look at the instruction book, although I doubt this is in there anyway.


----------



## FlyingDiver

I would expect it buffers the incoming data stream. That's what it has to do for normal recorded content, and anything else would complicate the system architecture tremendously.

If you're really concerned about the space used by the buffer, make sure the tuner is set to an SD Sat channel, not an HD channel.

joe


----------



## rms

rms said:


> I have had my HR10-250 for over 1 week, and not only have the menu's not gotten any faster, but I also experience audio drop-outs.
> The on-screen guide is so slow that it makes the whole experience extremely painful. I am comparing it's speed to my Sat-60 Sony DirecTV dual tuner tivo and would expect all tivo's regardless of who manufactured them to confirm to some standard. When I contact support they act like they have no idea about the product and can't tell me if it's normal or not.
> I can't say that overall I'm left feeling a little duped, not even my retailer has one on display so I can't even compare it with another unit.
> 
> Rony


Now after another week, my tivo guide is still just as slow. Also, the network logo's for my recorded shows in my what's playing now list haven't showed up yet. I understood that I am supposed to see them just as I do with my TivoSD. I think I will give it another week, then I will consider my unit a lemon and work towards and exchange.
Has anyone other then Chris Blount experience the sudden speed-up of the system after a while? Also, do others here see the network logo next to the recorded shows?

Rony


----------



## Chris Blount

rms said:


> Now after another week, my tivo guide is still just as slow. Also, the network logo's for my recorded shows in my what's playing now list haven't showed up yet. I understood that I am supposed to see them just as I do with my TivoSD. I think I will give it another week, then I will consider my unit a lemon and work towards and exchange.
> Has anyone other then Chris Blount experience the sudden speed-up of the system after a while? Also, do others here see the network logo next to the recorded shows?
> 
> Rony


I'm sorry to hear about your problems. Note though that your channel logos may not show up until the next software upgrade. For some reason, some units have them and some don't. I don't think it's your box, just the software.

Which guide are you using? The "List Guide" or the grid? The grid is extremely slow. The List Guide is faster but while recording HD, it still drags a little bit (although not very much at least on my box). In SD mode, it zips along just like on the SD Tivo.

During the first 5 days my box was installed, all of the guides dragged no matter what it was doing.


----------



## rms

Chris Blount said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your problems. Note though that your channel logos may not show up until the next software upgrade. For some reason, some units have them and some don't. I don't think it's your box, just the software.
> 
> Which guide are you using? The "List Guide" or the grid? The grid is extremely slow. The List Guide is faster but while recording HD, it still drags a little bit (although not very much at least on my box). In SD mode, it zips along just like on the SD Tivo.
> 
> During the first 5 days my box was installed, all of the guides dragged no matter what it was doing.


I'm using the list guide, the grid takes over 10 seconds to draw itself. The thing that makes me think there is a problem is not even the guide speed itself, but once the guide is up, it takes a full second after I hit the up or down arrow before the guide responds. That may seem like a small number, but when's the last time you had a TV or Tuner that took a second to even receive the message from your remote?
Has your Grid guide sped up as well? Perhaps the software needs to be updated to solve my problems, it's currently at 3.1.5
Another strange behaviour is that the OTA antenna tests, shows zero signal on all frequencies. yet I get all the OTA channels perfectly clean and clear and I have been successfully recording all my shows from my OTA feed.
Has anyone else had any audio problems? I get occasional half second audio drops.

Rony


----------



## openhouse

Sorry if i missed it but does it have the, called Id feature ?
thanks


----------



## JoeQ

openhouse said:


> Sorry if i missed it but does it have the, called Id feature ?
> thanks


No


----------



## hongcho

The slow-ness of the guide (list or grid) is a known issue to TiVo (the problem is common to all DirecTiVo). IIRC, the problem lies in the way the indexed guide data is stored on the disk and the way they are accessed.

I think if they had put more memory or bigger disk cache, it would have been "better", but it also incur additional costs. Another way is to re-structure the indexed guide database (or creating a duplicate for the "guide"), but that involves additional processing to keep things consistent. I think they are thinking about it, but it seems no real solution has come out yet.

Hong.


----------



## jsanders

hongcho said:


> The slow-ness of the guide (list or grid) is a known issue to TiVo (the problem is common to all DirecTiVo). IIRC, the problem lies in the way the indexed guide data is stored on the disk and the way they are accessed.
> 
> I think if they had put more memory or bigger disk cache, it would have been "better", but it also incur additional costs. Another way is to re-structure the indexed guide database (or creating a duplicate for the "guide"), but that involves additional processing to keep things consistent. I think they are thinking about it, but it seems no real solution has come out yet.


Yea, they just need to make a relational database. Their search feature, which is superb, shows how their guide is sorted. It doesn't take that much processing to maintain a second datbase. That processing comes when the database is downloaded, rather than processing every single time the scroll button is hit in the grid guide. All in all, it is less processing power, but it is additional memory. The memory footprint is probably not that big, not too hard to program either. Anyone with taking a class in data structures, linked lists, arrays, bubble sorts could do it.


----------



## JoeQ

jsanders said:


> All in all, it is less processing power, but it is additional memory.
> 
> 
> 
> ptvupgrade already has a disk upgrade for the HD TIVO.
> 
> In looking over their site, I see memory upgrades for other TIVO models.
> 
> I wonder if they plan on doing a memory upgrade for the HD TIVO.
> 
> BTW, what processor and how much memory is in the HD TIVO?
> 
> Joe
Click to expand...


----------



## mscalandra

Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.
> 
> Thanks!


Hi Chris ... Great Review .... My existing Sony rcvr went on me and i had to buy something in the interim because the hughes hd dvr is so hard to find ! I see 2 model numbers advertised and they look the same ! Are there any differences between the HR10-250 and the HD-DVR250? Regards


----------



## FlyingDiver

mscalandra said:


> Hi Chris ... Great Review .... My existing Sony rcvr went on me and i had to buy something in the interim because the hughes hd dvr is so hard to find ! I see 2 model numbers advertised and they look the same ! Are there any differences between the HR10-250 and the HD-DVR250? Regards


Same thing. The official model number is HR10-250. Some early materials referred to it as the HD-DVR250 (based on the SD-DVR40 naming), but that's not what was used when it actually was released.

hoe


----------



## 1995hoo

Well, I recently (around midnight Saturday) returned from a week's vacation in Mexico, and when I went to pull up my newly-recorded stuff, the HR10-250 was no different from using my old Philips DSR6000...which is great, because it means it worked fine! I didn't record anything in HD, though, mainly because there wasn't anything on I wanted to watch. I've scheduled it to record the Stanley Cup finals tonight while I go out to dinner, though, so I'm looking forward to see how that works out.

I have had no problems with audio or video dropouts that can be attributed to the HR10-250; a few dropouts occurred during the European Grand Prix, but the Speed Channel announcers acknowledged them, so the unit can't be blamed. On guide slowness, mine seems fine now--for the first few days it was slow (and I switched to the list guide per advice here), but now it's fine. I can't tell when it sped up, though, since I wasn't around.

All in all I'm quite happy. The only real nuisance is moving the antenna around depending on which OTA channel I want, but I guess that can't be helped (and it isn't the fault of the HR10-250).


----------



## Guest

I got my HD Tivo several weeks ago after pre-ordering in January. Overall, my experience has been good but I have had one fairly irritating problem. Programs I have recorded from the West Coast CBS HD feed often have significant artifacts and audio drop-outs during playback. I haven't noticed this with live HD off the satellite or with playback of other recorded HD programs. Has anyone else seen this? Any fixes?


----------



## 1995hoo

Mattt said:


> I got my HD Tivo several weeks ago after pre-ordering in January. Overall, my experience has been good but I have had one fairly irritating problem. Programs I have recorded from the West Coast CBS HD feed often have significant artifacts and audio drop-outs during playback. I haven't noticed this with live HD off the satellite or with playback of other recorded HD programs. Has anyone else seen this? Any fixes?


Does it happen when you watch live CBS HD as well? I got some interference during a thunderstorm, and I've also had to rotate the antenna depending on which channel I want. Could that sort of thing be causing the problem?


----------



## Guest

1995hoo said:


> Does it happen when you watch live CBS HD as well? I got some interference during a thunderstorm, and I've also had to rotate the antenna depending on which channel I want. Could that sort of thing be causing the problem?


It doesn't seem to be weather-related. It only happens with recorded content off the DirecTV CBS HD channel.


----------



## dmenagh

Just for clarification purposes -- does the Hughes HR10-250 HDTV DirecTv-Tivo output true 720p and/or 1080i via the 3 analog component cables? I would hope so, but I've heard talk that some manufacturers are treating HDTV via analog 3 wire component as either 480i/p or an up-rez of 480i/p and reserving true 720p and/or 1080i HDTV for digital video output because it has encription via HDCP.

Thanks.


----------



## Chris Blount

dmenagh said:


> Just for clarification purposes -- does the Hughes HR10-250 HDTV DirecTv-Tivo output true 720p and/or 1080i via the 3 analog component cables? I would hope so, but I've heard talk that some manufacturers are treating HDTV via analog 3 wire component as either 480i/p or an up-rez of 480i/p and reserving true 720p and/or 1080i HDTV for digital video output because it has encription via HDCP.
> 
> Thanks.


Hi dmenagh and welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s

Yes, the HD Tivo outputs true 720p and 1080i from the component jacks.


----------



## ccwf

Disclaimer: I don't have an HR10-250, so my information below is based on other TiVo models. However, I haven't read reports that the HR10-250 acts differently with regard to the items below.


jsanders said:


> It appears that their "replay" function is 8 seconds skip back. I don't know what happens if you hit it multiple times.
> 
> [&#8230;] The FF button isn't that great either. You get 2x, then 4x, then 8x, then it goes back to normal play.


 The trickplay ↪ button skips back eight seconds each time pressed. Standard TiVo fast forward speeds are 3×, 20×, and 60×. The skip to end/tick button ⇥ (->|) can be used to skip through larger chunks at once.


CAL7 said:


> How hard could it be for DirecTivo to implement a 12-hour or 24-hour jump button?


 As Chris wrote, although not a single button press, you can skip to a particular day and time in the guide.


JLucPicard said:


> if I hit the record button it will actually capture the recording a bit more than 30 minutes earlier - never figured out exactly how much but maybe ten minutes or so.


 It's variable. TiVo allocates disk space in large chunks. Enough chunks are used for the live buffer that it maxes out at at least half an hour. Often you'll get a few minutes more. For stuff like music channels, you might get a lot more.


Lee L said:


> [the ⇥] button skips to a tick mark on the prgress bar, this could be usefull to blow buy 15 minutes at once if you record a show with a lot of padding because it started late, but not much else I can think of.


 It's useful if you want to skip a large part of a program at once. For example, suppose you realize while watching a movie that something you saw an hour back was significant and now want to quickly review that portion. Or, when I watch sports, I usually watch just the game portions.  Afterwards, if I feel like it, I'll go back and watch the pre-game comments and half-time.

Finally, I maintain a top answers for TiVo questions resource that many TiVo owners find useful. (Some parts are geared towards new owners but much of it is not.) I would encourage TiVo owners to glance through that.


----------



## stefanagustsson

Does the HD TiVo unti allow you to record off air digital broadcaasts?


----------



## Chris Blount

stefanagustsson said:


> Does the HD TiVo unti allow you to record off air digital broadcaasts?


Yes.


----------



## PhilcoFord

Has anyone seen a Pronto profile for the HD Tivo?


----------



## Guest

Chris,

First off, great review and follow-ups on the 250. Have you or anyone else heard about when/if the system will get an upgrade to use the USB ports to put it on a network? I've gotten a bit spoiled with being able to log on to TiVo Central remotely and schedule programs to record. Plus being on the network allows me to do away with the phone cord...at least after setup 

Thanks!

Ed


----------



## Rick Sass

Hi -

"The HR10-250 has two OTA tuners but the single input is internally split to accommodate the two tuners. The tuners only receive digital broadcasts, NOT analog."

and

"It should be noted that the HR10-250 does NOT have simultaneous outputs from the composite and S-Video jacks while in any of the enhanced or high definition modes."

My Sammy 360 could do both of these functions. To me shouldn't newer technology at a higher price be able to do both these items? 

Is there a reason that the HD TIVO cannot do these 2 features? Tell me the answer is not "That's the way they designed it"?

Thanx,

Rick


----------



## ccwf

Rick Sass said:


> "The HR10-250 has two OTA tuners but the single input is internally split to accommodate the two tuners. The tuners only receive digital broadcasts, NOT analog." [&#8230;]
> 
> My Sammy 360 could do both of these functions. To me shouldn't newer technology at a higher price be able to do both these items?
> 
> Is there a reason that the HD TIVO cannot do these 2 features? Tell me the answer is not "That's the way they designed it"?


 If you just needed it to be able to receive but not record analog TV broadcasts, well analog tuners are cheap. However, TiVo DVRs are not really designed to receive and show channels without recording them, so that would probably require some extra software development (or perhaps DirecTV could provide an OTA analog TV mode totally separate from the TiVo software).

If you want it to also be able to record those analog OTA channels, then you are talking about a pair of tuners and MPEG encoders. That would cost $400 retail, although TiVo could probably get equivalent parts for ~$150. And, again, there would be some cost to pay for the necessary software changes.


----------



## bkanneg

I have noticed that my OTA signal strength meter differs between the two inputs. For example, when I am testing the OTA signal strength on Channel 56, Tuner 1 will go into the 70s while tuner 2 is down in the 20s. Why is that? I thought that since they were split internally they should have nearly identical signal strengths. Is this not true?


----------



## creesh

Hello, HR-250 question: I currently have two lines coming in: Satellite 1 and OTA antenna. I think I should be able to record two programs at the same time (one OTA and one satellite), but I haven't been able to. Do I need to do something to enable this functionality? I currently don't have an extra wire coming from the dish, so therefore no Satellite 2 input. 

The manual refers to this functionality, but doesn't explain how to set it up. I am currently using the "satellite and OTA antenna option" on guided setup. Can anybody help?


----------



## Tusk

creesh said:


> Hello, HR-250 question: I currently have two lines coming in: Satellite 1 and OTA antenna. I think I should be able to record two programs at the same time (one OTA and one satellite), but I haven't been able to. Do I need to do something to enable this functionality? I currently don't have an extra wire coming from the dish, so therefore no Satellite 2 input.
> 
> The manual refers to this functionality, but doesn't explain how to set it up. I am currently using the "satellite and OTA antenna option" on guided setup. Can anybody help?


 You will only be able to record one program at a time until you hook up a second sat line to the receiver. The Tivo uses the two sat lines to enable the recording of two programs at once regardless of having an OTA line hooked up.


----------



## creesh

Tusk said:


> You will only be able to record one program at a time until you hook up a second sat line to the receiver. The Tivo uses the two sat lines to enable the recording of two programs at once regardless of having an OTA line hooked up.


OK, it looks like I need to get the extra line...

For me, it isn't feasible to run all four lines through a switch in order to get the 5th line necessary for my Tivo. (Not all four lines enter the house at the same spot) Is there a smaller switch, where I might be able to run two lines through it in order to get a third line? If so, do you have any suggestion on which brand? Sorry if this is the wrong forum for this question. Thanks for your help.


----------



## DCSabres

Chris,

Great information. You've sold me on this gear. I just ordered my HR10-250. Now I have some questions in preparation.

1. Can I mount an OTA antenna on my dish and then diplex the antenna signal onto one of the coax lines? How do I do that?

2. Do I need three or four feeds to my HR10-250? Currently I have two feeds to my SD Tivo and running one or two more is going to be trouble. Any tips?

3. I have a 3X8 multiswitch - will that do, or do I need a bigger one?

Thanks!


----------



## dswallow

DCSabres said:


> 1. Can I mount an OTA antenna on my dish and then diplex the antenna signal onto one of the coax lines? How do I do that?
> 
> 2. Do I need three or four feeds to my HR10-250? Currently I have two feeds to my SD Tivo and running one or two more is going to be trouble. Any tips?
> 
> 3. I have a 3X8 multiswitch - will that do, or do I need a bigger one?


1) The OTA antennas which attach physically to the dish are rarely any good. You'll need to review your local station broadcast locations to determine if they're all generally transmitting from the same direction, and if reasonably so, a compact antenna like the Winegard SquareShooter would probably be a good choice, otherwise you'll need to look at other antennas based on your specific requirements. The antenna signal can be diplexed with the satellite feed(s) using diplexers or a multiswitch with an antenna input.

2) The HR10-250 has inputs for two satellite connections and one antenna. The antenna can be diplexed over one of the satellite connections, so you only need to have 2 runs from your multiswitch to the receiver.

3) Most HD material from DirecTV is on the 110° and 119° satellites right now, so you'll need the 3-LNB dish and if you need more than 4 outputs, you'll need the 5x8 multiswitch.


----------



## Ibgizmo

Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.
> 
> Thanks!


My unit has locked up after choosing the clear data selection (a recomendation from Direct TV after in noticed my unit pixelizing. I will not come out of the 'this will take about an hour' prompt. By the way, it has been this way for 2 days now. I have unplugged the unit, etc. Any ideas to get it re booted? Thanks...


----------



## dswallow

Ibgizmo said:


> My unit has locked up after choosing the clear data selection (a recomendation from Direct TV after in noticed my unit pixelizing. I will not come out of the 'this will take about an hour' prompt. By the way, it has been this way for 2 days now. I have unplugged the unit, etc. Any ideas to get it re booted? Thanks...


I think you're at the "call DirecTV for a warranty replacement" stage now.


----------



## Grant

Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.
> 
> Thanks!


Hello Chris.. Newbe here..

I've read your review.. Very well done..

I am a DirecTV subscriber with TIVO and am concidering upgrading to
HDTV with TIVO..

I'm not able to get local channels with DirecTV so along with my DTV, I also
have local cable TV... How does the HR10-250 handle cable tv channels? Will I be able to record the cable channels that run through the HR10?
My cable TV channels are not digital..

Thanks
Grant


----------



## Chris Blount

Hi Grant and welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s



Grant said:


> Hello Chris.. Newbe here..
> 
> I've read your review.. Very well done..


Thanks! Glad it helped. 


Grant said:


> I am a DirecTV subscriber with TIVO and am concidering upgrading to
> HDTV with TIVO..
> 
> I'm not able to get local channels with DirecTV so along with my DTV, I also
> have local cable TV... How does the HR10-250 handle cable tv channels? Will I be able to record the cable channels that run through the HR10?
> My cable TV channels are not digital..
> 
> Thanks
> Grant


The HR10-250 does not have an MPEG encoder so it will NOT record local cable channels from a cable box. It won't even pass them through like on your current DirecTivo. The HR10-250 can only handle local OTA digital channels. You will need to run your local channels from the cable box to a different input on your monitor or A/V receiver.


----------



## Grant

Chris Blount said:


> Hi Grant and welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s
> 
> Thanks! Glad it helped. The HR10-250 does not have an MPEG encoder so it will NOT record local cable channels from a cable box. It won't even pass them through like on your current DirecTivo. The HR10-250 can only handle local OTA digital channels. You will need to run your local channels from the cable box to a different input on your monitor or A/V receiver.


Thanks Chris,

My cable doesn't go through a cable box. It plugs directly into the TV. The channels are kind of wierd... channel 3 = 3, channel 4 = 40, and channel 5 = 22. Again, not digital.

So are you saying that if the cable is not digital, the HR10 won't even read it?
If I changed my local cable to digital would I be able to record (pass the cable local channels through the HR10?

Thanks
Grant


----------



## Grant

Chris Blount said:


> Hi Grant and welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s
> 
> Thanks! Glad it helped. The HR10-250 does not have an MPEG encoder so it will NOT record local cable channels from a cable box. It won't even pass them through like on your current DirecTivo. The HR10-250 can only handle local OTA digital channels. You will need to run your local channels from the cable box to a different input on your monitor or A/V receiver.


Sorry.. forgot..
Any recommandations on where to order the HR10?

Grant


----------



## RAD

Grant said:


> Sorry.. forgot..
> Any recommandations on where to order the HR10?
> 
> Grant


Right at this time, Circuit City's online site says they have them, that's where I got mine:

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&u=c&catoid=-9712&qp=0311531243795&oid=93509&m=0


----------



## Chris Blount

Grant said:


> So are you saying that if the cable is not digital, the HR10 won't even read it?


Correct



Grant said:


> If I changed my local cable to digital would I be able to record (pass the cable local channels through the HR10?


Good question but doubtful. I'm not an expert on digital cable but I believe they have a different compression scheme for their boxes which the HR10-250 can't read.

I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Grant

Good question but doubtful. I'm not an expert on digital cable but I believe they have a different compression scheme for their boxes which the HR10-250 can't read.

I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong. [/QUOTE]

Sorry if I'm confusing the issue..
My cable does not go through a cable box. Right now its analog but could change it to digital which would then connect directly to the HR10.. Does this work?

Grant


----------



## BrettStah

No, only two sources allowed for the HD-Tivos.... OTA antenna and satellite. No cable, digital or otherwise.

What TV market are you in? Maybe DirecTV will offer locals there in the not-too-distant future.


----------



## Grant

BrettStah said:


> No, only two sources allowed for the HD-Tivos.... OTA antenna and satellite. No cable, digital or otherwise.
> 
> What TV market are you in? Maybe DirecTV will offer locals there in the not-too-distant future.


DirecTV has local channels in the northeast, but the sat is so low in the sky, 50% of us can't get it. You have to live out in a field with no trees around you.

What are people using for OTA ant's

Grant


----------



## Chris Blount

Grant said:


> Sorry if I'm confusing the issue..
> My cable does not go through a cable box. Right now its analog but could change it to digital which would then connect directly to the HR10.. Does this work?
> 
> Grant


I know what you meant. Sorry that my answer wan't more clear. I think Brett is correct though, digital cable that is supposed to connect to a cable box will not work with the HR10-250.


----------



## Grant

Does anyone have a recommendations for OTA Antennas, other than the roof type.. Are there desktop types? Good, Bad..??

Thanks
Grant


----------



## BrettStah

Try here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=381623


----------



## Mctube

Grant said:


> Does anyone have a recommendations for OTA Antennas, other than the roof type.. Are there desktop types? Good, Bad..??
> 
> Thanks
> Grant


Try this link: http://www.antennasdirect.com/
I got A DB4. It works well and easy to install.. :eek2:


----------



## tchyde

I purchased a Hughes HR10-250 on 7/9/2004 and had nothing but problems with it. Including the following ...

1) The sound would drop off about once a day while on (LIVE TV) or recording a High Def channel. On LIVE TV, the sound would return if I changed the channel, but this doesn't help when recording shows.

2) The Channel's I Recieve List did not work. No matter how many times I checked or unchecked channels, the unit always gave me everything? (ex. all the Spanish stations?) This was just a small problem, but aggravating still.

3) The Menuing sound effects would occasionally go mute? Especially on the HD channels. Again, another small problem, but combined with the above issues and considering the cost, it was enough to be dissastified.

I worked thru tech support daily on all the above until they finally gave up (along with me) and I returned the unit.

Hope this post helps anyone who just purchased one to check these issues out before their 30 day warantee is up. Good Luck.

 
[email protected]


----------



## Chris Blount

tchyde said:


> I purchased a Hughes HR10-250 on 7/9/2004 and had nothing but problems with it. Including the following ...
> 
> 1) The sound would drop off about once a day while on (LIVE TV) or recording a High Def channel. On LIVE TV, the sound would return if I changed the channel, but this doesn't help when recording shows.
> 
> 2) The Channel's I Recieve List did not work. No matter how many times I checked or unchecked channels, the unit always gave me everything? (ex. all the Spanish stations?) This was just a small problem, but aggravating still.
> 
> 3) The Menuing sound effects would occasionally go mute? Especially on the HD channels. Again, another small problem, but combined with the above issues and considering the cost, it was enough to be dissastified.
> 
> I worked thru tech support daily on all the above until they finally gave up (along with me) and I returned the unit.
> 
> Hope this post helps anyone who just purchased one to check these issues out before their 30 day warantee is up. Good Luck.
> 
> 
> [email protected]


Hi tchyde and welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s

Sorry to hear about the problems you are having. Like any electronic gadget, some bad apples slip through the cracks. Hopefully your next unit will work perfectly.

One thing to note. If you are using the optical audio output on the HR10-250 in Dolby Digital mode, you will NOT hear the sounds while navigating the menus especially in Hi-Def. The sounds are not encoded in Dolby Digital.


----------



## RAD

tchyde said:


> I purchased a Hughes HR10-250 on 7/9/2004 and had nothing but problems with it. Including the following ...
> 
> 1) The sound would drop off about once a day while on (LIVE TV) or recording a High Def channel. On LIVE TV, the sound would return if I changed the channel, but this doesn't help when recording shows.
> 
> 2) The Channel's I Recieve List did not work. No matter how many times I checked or unchecked channels, the unit always gave me everything? (ex. all the Spanish stations?) This was just a small problem, but aggravating still.
> 
> 3) The Menuing sound effects would occasionally go mute? Especially on the HD channels. Again, another small problem, but combined with the above issues and considering the cost, it was enough to be dissastified.
> 
> I worked thru tech support daily on all the above until they finally gave up (along with me) and I returned the unit.
> 
> Hope this post helps anyone who just purchased one to check these issues out before their 30 day warantee is up. Good Luck.
> 
> 
> [email protected]


BTW, the warranty is for 90 days labor/1 year parts.

Did whoever you were working with ever offer, or did you ask, to replace the receiver with another one, sometimes things do break.

#1 Did the sound problem happen on all channels or only on HDNet, which is a know problem?

#2 Did you change the guide to display only the channels you receive filter?

Frankly, I would have b*tched and moaned until they sent me another unit to try since there are MANY very happy users of this box.

BTW: If you didn't like these problems I'd suggest that you stay away from E* hardware :sure:


----------



## tchyde

re: 30 days, that's the CircuitCity policy with no questions asked. I think it's the same for BestBuy. But your right the unit is also waranteed for 90 days.

The sound drop off seemed to occur on all the HD channels (I think  ) but definitely on channel 79 HDNet. The unit was so new, that Directv support couldn't offer any info on known problems with HDNET?

As far as Channels I receive ... I tried that to know avail ... and saw a posting in the tivocommunity forum with a known bug

The sound effects issue, you might have a point there with the optical cable (as the tech guys wanted only that to be hooked up)  

Anyway, I would have exhanged it, but they didn't have any at the store to exchange with (they were only available online) ? I didn't feel like waiting for a new unit (not knowing how long it would take to get one)

I see BestBuy currently has them, so I might just go buy another and give it another try. Thanks for your input.

tchyde


----------



## tchyde

Any chance the units will drop under $999 anytime soon?

I figured I really don't need one until football season starts and might save $100 if BestBuy has a SALE. BestBuy had about 50 of them at their store when I visted this week.


----------



## RAD

tchyde said:


> Any chance the units will drop under $999 anytime soon?
> 
> I figured I really don't need one until football season starts and might save $100 if BestBuy has a SALE. BestBuy had about 50 of them at their store when I visted this week.


Really doubt it. Usually when something's in short supply they don't start to discount. Why should they loose some $'s when folks are lined up ready to drop $1K on them.


----------



## tchyde

in case anyone is looking for more details on the HR10-250 HDNET sound dropoffs problem ...

here's a link to an extensive discussion

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=176849&perpage=20&pagenumber=1


----------



## aaronwt

tchyde said:


> I purchased a Hughes HR10-250 on 7/9/2004 and had nothing but problems with it. Including the following ...
> 
> 1) The sound would drop off about once a day while on (LIVE TV) or recording a High Def channel. On LIVE TV, the sound would return if I changed the channel, but this doesn't help when recording shows.
> 
> 2) The Channel's I Recieve List did not work. No matter how many times I checked or unchecked channels, the unit always gave me everything? (ex. all the Spanish stations?) This was just a small problem, but aggravating still.
> 
> 3) The Menuing sound effects would occasionally go mute? Especially on the HD channels. Again, another small problem, but combined with the above issues and considering the cost, it was enough to be dissastified.
> 
> I worked thru tech support daily on all the above until they finally gave up (along with me) and I returned the unit.
> 
> Hope this post helps anyone who just purchased one to check these issues out before their 30 day warantee is up. Good Luck.
> 
> 
> [email protected]


I've had none of those problems with my 2 units. The first one is 2 months old and the second is 1.5 months. 
One of my units has the audio dropout with HDNet only. So I only use the other unit if I record off HDNet.


----------



## tchyde

I sent an email to Mark at HD.net and his reply was

"Its a hardware issue, but we know they are trying to fix it"

Which seems great, but if the problem is a hardware issue, it might not be correctable by software updates? Maybe he was using the term "hardware" loosely and simply refering to the HR10-250 unit?

The link I posted earlier seems to be the best for tracking the HDNet problem.

Anyway, I beleive I will hold off purchasing another until I start seeing some postings that the problem has been resolved.


----------



## mainedish

I got one but I will wait before I get two.


----------



## Shappyss

Oh, and another question - do you have to have at least one of the sat tuners connected to watch your recorded programming? IE - can you disconnect the box from the satellite and still watch what's been recorded?[/QUOTE]

yes you can watch recorded programs if disconected from all sat inputs but if you are somewhere with an antenna you can watch live off air shows


----------



## Eagles

Hey Mainedish,
Nice Avatar. Kerry looks like He's going to a costume party as a sperm. I know I'll get clobbered for this off topic post, but I couldn't resist.
!pride


----------



## dswallow

tchyde said:


> I sent an email to Mark at HD.net and his reply was
> 
> "Its a hardware issue, but we know they are trying to fix it"


Of course that statement could be interpreted to mean the issue is with the hardware behind getting the signal to the satellite, not the receiver.


----------



## tchyde

aaronwt said:


> I've had none of those problems with my 2 units. The first one is 2 months old and the second is 1.5 months.
> One of my units has the audio dropout with HDNet only. So I only use the other unit if I record off HDNet.


aaronwt, did you notice that the MEXICO made unit did not have the HDNet issues? I thought I read someplace that you had better sucess with that one.


----------



## aaronwt

tchyde said:


> aaronwt, did you notice that the MEXICO made unit did not have the HDNet issues? I thought I read someplace that you had better sucess with that one.


My US unit is the one that doesn't have the HDNet problems. I have to leave it on HDNet all night for the audio to drop. The Mexican one will sometimes drop it in 20 minutes or so while the US one on the same program is fine.


----------



## Grant

Does anyone know who has the HD10-250 in stock? Seems like everyone is out.


----------



## aaronwt

They are available at several local BestBuy stores here.


----------



## tchyde

there are a lot of them at local BestBuy's in the Chicagoland Area

you can also get them online at CircuitCity.com (usually)


----------



## Grant

tchyde said:


> there are a lot of them at local BestBuy's in the Chicagoland Area
> 
> you can also get them online at CircuitCity.com (usually)


Unbelievable.. I live in Western Mass... It would appear that we can't get them up here.. nobody has any and don't expect any..

This is interesting.. I went into our local CircuitCity.. The guy looked up the HR10250 and said that it had a price of $999.96 was listed and said that the price is a code within CC.. Anything ending is a 5,6,7 indicates that CC isn't going to stock the item anylonger.. ?????

Well, I found plenty in Baltimore.. One is on the way..
Thanks
Grant


----------



## hap1marr

After DirecTV switchout my box, 3 weeks ago, for the same problem that's occurring on my new box, their technical department finally admits to a software flaw. Every three days, the set shuts down and ceases recording following receipt of a Message from DirecTV stating "Please activate your DVR Service" which of course is activated through DirecTV. Other than not being able to record any shows every third day, I love this box. DirecTV gave be a friendly $4.95 credit for my problem and said they would let me know when a new software release is available.


----------



## hap1marr

i have a used one - you interested


----------



## Grant

Can you record progamming from OTA channels the same way as normal?

Thanks
Grant


----------



## tchyde

Just bought a replacement HR10-250 (since I got the guy at BestBuy to knock off $100) despite lots of problems with audio drops on HDNet (79)

here's a link to post audio drops
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=176849&perpage=20&pagenumber=15

many members are reporting simular drops at the exact same times within shows ? the hope is to collect enough info so they finally resolve the problem.


----------



## dle777

Hi,

I just got the HR10-250 last night. Hooked it up and everything seems great. It is my first HD DVR I have purchased.

I have a question if anyone can help? Is the cooling fan supposed to run "all" the time. Last night after I got done playing with it I put it in "standby" mode. I noticed the fan was still running. I assumed it had a thermal control and would turn off when it had cooled enough. However, when I got up in the moring the fan was still running.

It seems the fan runs constantly, as long as the unit is plugged in. Is this normal? Wouldn't that burn the fan out quickly?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## Chris Blount

dle777 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got the HR10-250 last night. Hooked it up and everything seems great. It is my first HD DVR I have purchased.
> 
> I have a question if anyone can help? Is the cooling fan supposed to run "all" the time. Last night after I got done playing with it I put it in "standby" mode. I noticed the fan was still running. I assumed it had a thermal control and would turn off when it had cooled enough. However, when I got up in the moring the fan was still running.
> 
> It seems the fan runs constantly, as long as the unit is plugged in. Is this normal? Wouldn't that burn the fan out quickly?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


Hi dle777 and welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s

Yes, the fan runs all the time. Is it really that bothersome to you? I can barely hear the fan or the hard drive in my HR10-250.


----------



## dle777

Chris Blount said:


> Hi dle777 and welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s
> 
> Yes, the fan runs all the time. Is it really that bothersome to you? I can barely hear the fan or the hard drive in my HR10-250.


Thanks Chris, for replying. No the fan is not bothersome to me, your right it is quiet, as is the the hard drive. I just wanted to make sure that it is "supposed" to run constantly, and that it wasn't tempature controlled. I wasn't sure if I had a defective fan controller, but now I know that it is designed to run constantly, I'm confident with the system.

Thanks again.


----------



## rc3105

sw only exploit provides bash/networking/tivoweb on HD10-250 tivos

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36610&page=1&pp=40


----------



## Grant

Wonder if someone can answer this question...
I'm in the northeast and we cant get the HR10-250 up here..
My daug is picking me up my unit in Baltimore.. Best Buy
is telling her that I have 30 days to activate this with
DirecTV or else.. (my words..) Does anyone know of this
or are they just giving her a hard time.. She also
went in to purchase another unit for my friend and
they wouldn't do it without his DirecTV info.

Thanks
Grant


----------



## dswallow

Grant said:


> Wonder if someone can answer this question...
> I'm in the northeast and we cant get the HR10-250 up here.. My daug is picking me up my unit in Baltimore.. Best Buy is telling her that I have 30 days to activate this with DirecTV or else.. (my words..) Does anyone know of this or are they just giving her a hard time.. She also went in to purchase another unit for my friend and they wouldn't do it without his DirecTV info.


Sometimes things just get too confusing for stores. Ignoring whether this is even necessary for the HR10-250 model at all, if the unit will be activated (i.e.; you trust it's going to get activated on someones/anyones account), it really doesn't matter what info you give to the store. Have your daughter give your account info on your friends unit purchase. The only thing that would matter in the end is if the unit were activated, not that it got activated on the account that was given.

That said, there's considerable debate from many sides about whether this is even necessary at all on the HR10-250; suffice to say, some stores just won't budge since this policy exists for sure with subsidized receiver equipment, and they don't know the difference.

In any event, only activation is required, not a specific term of activation, so once activated, you've met the requirements, if there really are such requirements, for activation.


----------



## Grant

dswallow said:


> Sometimes things just get too confusing for stores. Ignoring whether this is even necessary for the HR10-250 model at all, if the unit will be activated (i.e.; you trust it's going to get activated on someones/anyones account), it really doesn't matter what info you give to the store. Have your daughter give your account info on your friends unit purchase. The only thing that would matter in the end is if the unit were activated, not that it got activated on the account that was given.
> 
> That said, there's considerable debate from many sides about whether this is even necessary at all on the HR10-250; suffice to say, some stores just won't budge since this policy exists for sure with subsidized receiver equipment, and they don't know the difference.
> 
> In any event, only activation is required, not a specific term of activation, so once activated, you've met the requirements, if there really are such requirements, for activation.


Thanks.. That's just what we (she) did.. I thought that to be the case, but did think much about it since they didn't give her that grief when she bought mine the other day..

Grant


----------



## aaronwt

I bought 8 from BestBuy and all I had to do was sign the agreement that it would be activated within 30 days. They had to swipe the chargecard for each unit. I never told them that I was selling 6 on EBAY. That was over 2 months ago. I didn't receive any extra charges on my credit card, so I guess everything is OK.


----------



## Curtis in S.A.T.X.

Hello all. I have been reading this forum for a couple of days now and happy to report that I have taken the plunge and purchased a 50" Sony HDTV LCD rear projection TV and a HR10-250. By the way, as of this morning they're now available on circuitcity.com. I read on another forum today that Hughes/DirecTV is increasing their production from around 600 per week to now around 600 per day. Should start seeing them more now.
Chris, I was extremely excited when I found your forum and that you are from San Antonio. I too am from San Antonio and have a couple of S.A. specific questions. I currently have standard DirecTV with local channels being fed from the satellite. With this new HDTV receiver will I receive my HD programming through the dish as well, or will I need to add an antenna? If I do add an antenna, which would you suggest since KLRN is broadcast in VHF and all other local channels are in UHF?
Please understand that this is all new to me and nearly everyone I've asked seems to have a different answer.
I look forward to everyone's responses and to joining the rapidly growing number of people who are embracing HDTV.


----------



## kdixon

we can't figure out how to program any button to do a skip forward function. the fast forward button move in too big of chunks of time. we had this function on our old dvr receiver and use it constantly.

there's a number of things we're still trying to figure out, but this one has to get figured out quick!


----------



## Chris Blount

Curtis in S.A.T.X. said:


> Chris, I was extremely excited when I found your forum and that you are from San Antonio. I too am from San Antonio and have a couple of S.A. specific questions. I currently have standard DirecTV with local channels being fed from the satellite. With this new HDTV receiver will I receive my HD programming through the dish as well, or will I need to add an antenna? If I do add an antenna, which would you suggest since KLRN is broadcast in VHF and all other local channels are in UHF?
> Please understand that this is all new to me and nearly everyone I've asked seems to have a different answer.
> I look forward to everyone's responses and to joining the rapidly growing number of people who are embracing HDTV.


Hi Curtis and welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s

First, I apologize for taking so long to answer your post. I've been quite busy this week with "real life" issues. 

All of your high definition local programming will need to come from an antenna. WOAI, KENS, KLRN and KSAT all have very good hi-def OTA signals and all are fairly strong depending on where you live. I would highly suggest getting a combo UHF/VHF antenna to receive KLRN. They have some excellent programming which comes from the PBS HD national feed.

Congrats on the purchase of your new toys. You will love the HR10-250.


----------



## Chris Blount

kdixon said:


> we can't figure out how to program any button to do a skip forward function. the fast forward button move in too big of chunks of time. we had this function on our old dvr receiver and use it constantly.
> 
> there's a number of things we're still trying to figure out, but this one has to get figured out quick!


While playing back a recorded show, hit Select-play-select-3-0-select in that combination. It will activate the 30 second skip function.


----------



## kdixon

Chris Blount said:


> While playing back a recorded show, hit Select-play-select-3-0-select in that combination. It will activate the 30 second skip function.


What button does it assign the skip function to? Does it replace the fast forward? Does it have to be done each time you want to use it, or is it permanent. Don't really want to lose the FF function.

We mostly like it so far, but did lose a few things, like picture in picture and Twin Screen that our TV allows (doesn't allow Video 5 input, which is where the high def is). Just some growing pains to get the High def!


----------



## Chris Blount

kdixon said:


> What button does it assign the skip function to? Does it replace the fast forward? Does it have to be done each time you want to use it, or is it permanent. Don't really want to lose the FF function.


It assigns the skip function to the same button you use to skip to the next tick mark. No, it does not replace the fast forward.

It will stay activated until the next time the receiver is rebooted. You can also toggle it off by pressing the same key combination.

Please see this thread for more tips and tricks:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=27493


----------



## Grant

Got my HR10-250 installed and activated with no problems Friday.. 
One thing I found odd.. Of the 4 HD channels on DirecTV, all came
in right away except HDNET.. It took untill this morning before I
could watch it.. Kept saying is was search for the Satilite..

Is this normal to take two days before it could aquire the signal?
It's beautiful right now.. 

Thanks
Grant


----------



## Grant

Hello.

Can anyone recommend a good all around indoor HDTV antenna?
I order the Zenith silvor sensor but am interested in not having to
adj for every channel.


Thanks
Grant


----------



## aeisner007

What happened to the star ratings of movies I had with my non hd tivo??

thanks....

Alan


----------



## ccwf

aeisner007 said:


> What happened to the star ratings of movies I had with my non hd tivo??


 The integrated DirecTiVo models use a less verbose version of the guide data than do the standalone models. The lack of star ratings is one of the differences.


----------



## Grant

Hello,

I've had my HR10-250 for a week now and noticed that I don't have the network/channel Icons on my info bars. 

Is this supposed to be or is there a software upgrade for this?

Thanks
Grant


----------



## RAD

Grant said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've had my HR10-250 for a week now and noticed that I don't have the network/channel Icons on my info bars.
> 
> Is this supposed to be or is there a software upgrade for this?
> 
> Thanks
> Grant


It's a know problem, some units have it, some don't. It's 'RUMORED' that a software fix will be coming 'this summer' to correct this.


----------



## Grant

RAD said:


> It's a know problem, some units have it, some don't. It's 'RUMORED' that a software fix will be coming 'this summer' to correct this.


Where will this update come from? Is this a software update that will 
be coming automatically from the weekly phone call to DirecTV?

Thanks


----------



## RAD

Grant said:


> Where will this update come from? Is this a software update that will
> be coming automatically from the weekly phone call to DirecTV?
> 
> Thanks


That's the rumor, you might want to check over on the www.tivocommunity.com web site. As I said, it's a rumor, I've never seen anything official from D* about the issues.


----------



## Guest

I have not gone HD yet and I am planning on buying a new HD TV and upgrading my Tivo to HD. However, in my area (Boston) the local baseball HD is available on Comcast only. Can the OTA input receive a digital cable signal. Also, my local Comcast digital carries the local channels in HD. Do you thionk this will work instead of an antenna?


----------



## Grant

jay931 said:


> I have not gone HD yet and I am planning on buying a new HD TV and upgrading my Tivo to HD. However, in my area (Boston) the local baseball HD is available on Comcast only. Can the OTA input receive a digital cable signal. Also, my local Comcast digital carries the local channels in HD. Do you thionk this will work instead of an antenna?


The OTA input on the HR10-250 does not work with a digital cable signal..

Grant


----------



## Grant

With regards to earlier posts about missing Icons on the Info Bar..

My DVR phone call to DirecTV last night produced the missing Icons...
Don't know if this is the software upgrade that was mentioned..


----------



## mmannari

Hi,

I've not been able to get the HDMI port on the HR10-250 to work, with either the original unit or its replacement. The first one, connected to a SONY KLV-23HR2 via the supplied HDMI-to-DVI cable supplied picture and sound, but the picture was awful with swirling color distortion. Using the component cables instead was able to produce excellent picture, but not via the HDMI.

The second HR10-250 provides no picture or sound to a SONY KD30-XS955. Again, using component video cables gives excellent picture.

I have a Hughes HTL-HD "plain-jane" unit that I connected to the SONY KLV-23HR2 via the DVI-to-DVI cable and it works great.

Has anyone been able to get the HR10-250 to work with the HDMI port ? I have a DirectTV tech coming in 2 weeks to take a look at my problem.

Thanks,


----------



## bobl

Repalce the unit again! The failure of the HDMI port is a very well known problem. It seems to affect about 25-30 percent of all units.

Bob


----------



## Guest

Hi,
i am wondering if there is any way to use this tivo without a land line? can i get any programming directly from the dish?

Thanks for any help.
Scott.
[email protected]


----------



## dswallow

scott said:


> Hi,
> i am wondering if there is any way to use this tivo without a land line? can i get any programming directly from the dish?


You only need the phone line during the initial setup of the HR10-250. After that, you can leave the phone line disconnected and it won't affect the operation of the unit.


----------



## Psychic Horse

scott said:


> Hi,
> i am wondering if there is any way to use this tivo without a land line? can i get any programming directly from the dish?
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> Scott.
> [email protected]


Heh.. actually you get ALL programming from your dish. no programming comes via phone line


----------



## Hankenstien

I bought the HD TIVO with 600 gig of space. While I love all the functionality of TIVO, I am very disappointed at the picture quality. The colors are dull and it just doesn't have the rich detail that either my old HD receiver had or the quality of the OTA HD receiver built into my TV. Even DVD's look better than this receiver. I tried swapping the HDMI to DVI for the component outputs and it is still not quite right. The images look rather flat. 

Hank


----------



## aaronwt

Have you calibrated the picture for that component? Every component is different and sometimes adjustments need to be made. Record the test patterns from HDNet on Tuesday mornings. That should help in making adjustments.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

dswallow said:


> You only need the phone line during the initial setup of the HR10-250. After that, you can leave the phone line disconnected and it won't affect the operation of the unit.


True, but won't it nag at you to plug the phone line in so it can call in?


----------



## Guest

I was just wondering if this unit (the HR10-250) can be connected to a PC or other device so a permanent recording of the programming from the DVR can be made on a DVD burner ?
TIA!
GT


----------



## aaronwt

Only if you use the S-video or composite out which is 480i.


----------



## jkbs4208

Chris Blount said:


> I ramy and welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :welcome_s
> 
> As stated in my review:
> 
> _It should be noted that the HR10-250 does NOT have simultaneous outputs from the composite and S-Video jacks while in any of the enhanced or high definition modes. What that means is that only the component and HDMI jacks are active while in 480p, 720p or 1080i._
> 
> So in answer to your question, no.


Hi, I am new to the forum. I currently own a regular TIVO and have just purchased a new DLP HDTV. I am now looking into the HDTV TIVO. My current system has the TIVO and a regular D* receiver which are distributed through the house. This is done through the composite yellow, red, white, outputs on the satellite receivers. This allows me to watch the recorded programs in other rooms, a feature I definitely want to keep.

I read you very thorough review as well as some of the postings and found the quote above, which could be a problem for my setup. I was planning on hooking up the HDTV TIVO directly to the HDTV using the HDMI jack, and using the composite jacks for the distribution system. Is there a way to set the receiver to the high definition modes when I want to watch recorded shows on the HDTV and to 480I when I want to watch on the other TVs?

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## aaronwt

Yes. You can change the resolution using the up button. In the settings you can set what resolutions to cycle through(480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i)I have mine set to 480i and 1080i. So the first time you hit the up arrow it shows you what resolution you are currently in. The next time you hit it, the resolutions changes to the next one that you set. I'm able to switch to 480i with two hits of the up arrow. That allows me to burn to disc from the svideo output. When up done I just hit the up arrow twice and I'm back to 1080i.


----------



## badboy2k

From Chris's very excellent review: 
>> It should be noted that the HR10-250 does NOT have simultaneous 
>> outputs from the composite and S-Video jacks while in any of the 
>> enhanced or high definition modes. What that means is that only the 
>> component and HDMI jacks are active while in 480p, 720p or 1080i.

This is not exactly correct, in particular the last sentence is incorrect. Plugging in the HDMI cable turns off the component output :-(

I have tested this, and it is also documented in the instructions.

I would also add that, at least on my setup, with a Panasonic 50" plasma, the picture quality from the HDMI output of the HR10-250 SUCKS, in comparison to the component output. The blacks are washed to greys, completely losing the contrast ratio and making the picture noticeably bad.

This monitor is stunning when fed HDMI from my Sony SAT-HD200 tuner (via to-HDMI conversion cable), or when fed via component cables from either box.

These are but two of the disappointments I have so far with my 3-day-old box. My guides and menus are still slow as molasses, I'm hoping that's temporary, and I miss being able to roll material off to a permanent storage medium like I could with the SD TiVo (Sony SAT-TS60).

HD TiVo is very great, though, and since it's the only game in town for DirecTV, I guess I'll put up with the rest for now.

- Jay


----------



## Chris Blount

badboy2k said:


> From Chris's very excellent review:
> >> It should be noted that the HR10-250 does NOT have simultaneous
> >> outputs from the composite and S-Video jacks while in any of the
> >> enhanced or high definition modes. What that means is that only the
> >> component and HDMI jacks are active while in 480p, 720p or 1080i.
> 
> This is not exactly correct, in particular the last sentence is incorrect. Plugging in the HDMI cable turns off the component output :-(
> 
> I have tested this, and it is also documented in the instructions.


Hi Jay and welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s

Thanks for pointing that out. What you say is true. I actually meant what was explained in the instructions but I didn't word it right. I will change the "and" to "or" in the review.


----------



## Guest

Hi Chris,

Are you able to record two shows (in HD format) while watching a third that you previously recorded?

Thanks for your great review, by the way!



Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## JLucPicard

If you don't mind me hijacking the question to Chris, Yup, I do it all the time - especially Sundays with the football overload.

Whether two HD shows from satellite or two HD shows from the locals with the OTA or one local and one satellite, you can record two HD programs while watching a third that you had recorded previosuly. It's all good!


----------



## Chris Blount

JLucPicard said:


> If you don't mind me hijacking the question to Chris


I don't mind at all.  I appreciate the help.



Kennyd said:


> Thanks for your great review, by the way!


You are very welcome!


----------



## console

In response to an earlier message about HDMI. I have successfully connected HDMI out to HDMI in of Pio 5040 media receiver with excellent results. I am 100% sure that picture quality is improved from previous component connection of SONY HD-300 ... especially evident on non-HD programming. 

It did, however, take me about 2 hours to figure out that I had to "turn on" the HDMI port of the PIO via software sub-menus. That made me nuts. Apparently HDMI was added to my Plasma AFTER the manual was printed. So there were no instructions evident. 

jh


----------



## DaveTinNY

Since I've got an RCA HDTV with the DIRECTV tuner built-in to the TV (the access card plugs into the back of the tv) would I be able to use the HDTivo unit as the tuner and bypass the RCA's built in DirecTV tuner? I only have component jacks, not the digital interface; my set was before that interface came along but the HD picture is amazing.

Thanks!

Dave T


----------



## ramy

Yes you can bypass it with the component video jack on the back of your tv.


----------



## Jessica

Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.
> 
> Thanks!


_______________________________________________________________

CHRIS, thank you for taking my question...which is as follows:
I am planning to subscribe to the local channels for the Houston area through DirecTV, since I can't always get an OTA signal. I'm also going to buy a terrestrial antenna to better receive OTA signals. Is is possible to program (in Season Pass Manager) the HR10-250 to record OTA signals instead of the local channels that I'll receive through DirecTV? For example, if my HR10-250 is receiving CSI Las Vegas OTA in High Def and it's receiving CSI Las Vegas through DirecTV (not in high def) can I program the receiver to record the OTA signal? If the program is being broadcast in HD OTA I don't want the DVR to record the local channel I've purchased from DirecTV just because it's scheduled to start a few seconds earlier than the OTA broadcast...once I'm comfortable on this issue I'm going to run to Best Buy and drop the $1,000.

Thank You

Jessica


----------



## Chris Blount

Hi Jessica and welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s

YES! You can program season passes for local OTA-HD. When setting up the season pass, you simply select the local OTA-HD channel instead of the DirecTV provided standard def version.

I have several season passes setup for local OTA and it works great!

One note. If you are willing to order the HR10-250 through the mail, you can get one at DishDepot for $899. Free shipping and no tax! Give them a call and tell them we sent you. Mark (the owner of DishDepot) is a good guy and he will fix you up. 

http://www.dishdepot.com/current_subscribers1.jsp

P.S. We don't get any kickbacks from the sale but DishDepot is a reputable dealer and come highly recommended.


----------



## Jessica

Chris,

Thank you. Right now I'm using a powered Turk antenna, which sits on top of my Mitsubishi HDTV, to receive OTA signals. As I mentioned before, I don't always receive programs being broadcast in my area in HD (it seems that the signals are weak sometimes) and I'm planning to have an antenna mounted on my roof to (hopefully) better receive OTA HD signals. Am I correct in understading that the 10-250 can receive OTA signals (a.) on it's own or (b.) from a roof mounted antenna? And, can the terrestrial roof antenna be connected to the DirectTV 3LNB antenna and send the signal to the receiver or does it have to be a separate line from the roof to the receiver? 

Thanks again,

Jessica


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Jessica said:


> Chris,
> 
> Thank you. Right now I'm using a powered Turk antenna, which sits on top of my Mitsubishi HDTV, to receive OTA signals. As I mentioned before, I don't always receive programs being broadcast in my area in HD (it seems that the signals are weak sometimes) and I'm planning to have an antenna mounted on my roof to (hopefully) better receive OTA HD signals. Am I correct in understading that the 10-250 can receive OTA signals (a.) on it's own or (b.) from a roof mounted antenna? And, can the terrestrial roof antenna be connected to the DirectTV 3LNB antenna and send the signal to the receiver or does it have to be a separate line from the roof to the receiver?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Jessica


a. When you say "on its own" do you mean without an antenna or without a subscription to D*? Well, whichever one you meant, the answer is no to both, you must have an antenna and a subscription to D*.

b. A rooftop antenna is always best, so you're making the right choice, just make sure it gets grounded. Depending on your set up, if you can, its best to run a seperate cable from the OTA antenna to the receiver. This way you get the best signal strength. If you can't run a seperate cable, then you can use one diplexer to combine the satellite signal and the OTA signal onto one cable at the dish end, then use another diplexer to split the signals at the receivers end. You get a set of these at Walmart, (or BB/CC) you will need 2, as they sell them seperately.

Any other questions, just ask, we're always here to help. And welcome aboard!


----------



## Guest

I've had 4 replacements for my HR 10-250, and they are all overheating. Even if I set them up outside of my rack. Any ideas/solutions?


----------



## ocnier

Perplexed said:


> I've had 4 replacements for my HR 10-250, and they are all overheating. Even if I set them up outside of my rack. Any ideas/solutions?


First do you have the device hooked up to a surge suppressor/UPS? Second do you have any signal amplifiers on the coax lines? Third have you checked your coax line for line/power bleed on a junction such as mutidevice wall plates?


----------



## sideshow

I just found this site and have read through the entire thread. I currently have a Sony SD DTV receiver with Ultimate TV. It was a microsoft tivo-like service that has since gone defunct.....though the tivo-like function still works fine.

I have auditioned the Hughes receiver at my local Magnolia HiFi and the thing that is actually keeping me from buying it is the speed of the grid. It's painful to watch as all the boxes are slowly filled in. No one has posted anything about this for a while and I just wanted to know if this has changed as some have reported things getting faster. I use the grid on my current receiver all of the time to surf. Can the menus be upgraded by software to be sped up?

Thanks guys....great board.

Bob


----------



## console

Hi Sideshow,

the grid is slower on my Hughes HD Tivo receiver ... certainly than on my SONY HD300. Sometimes it is slower than other times. Don't know why. The only thing that helps me is to keep my guide list parsed to only channels I watch ... which is about 25 out of the 300 whatever. 

Even on TIVO functions the remote/menus slow down from time to time. 

On the other hand I love the thing because of the quality of the connections and quality of the image and I'm new to TIVO and love it too. 

jh


----------



## DRJDAN

When you want to record two shows at the same time, do you have to tell the HR10-250 which tuner to use or does it just let you request a record until it is out of turners for that time period?


----------



## aaronwt

You just schedule it to record. You don't pick the tuner. It will record up to 2 channels at a time. If two things are already scheduled it will tell you there is a conflict if you try to schedule a third program during the same period and give you an opportunity to keep or change the previous recording schedule.


----------



## servicedoc

With the HD Direct TV Tivo, is there a way to hook up a DVD recorder that will copy from the Tivo? I realize it won't/can't record in HD, but what if it was recorded on Tivo in SD? thanks


----------



## Rick Sass

servicedoc said:


> With the HD Direct TV Tivo, is there a way to hook up a DVD recorder that will copy from the Tivo? I realize it won't/can't record in HD, but what if it was recorded on Tivo in SD? thanks


Yes, just your DVD recorder for VCR. You must set the resolution of the HD TiVo box to 480i before you record. When you select a previously recorded program, there is an option for "Save to VCR."


----------



## speedcouch

My husband bought me the DirecTV HD-Tivo for my birthday/Christmas present! It's fantastic! I directed him to Dish Depot as recommended by Chris. Thanks for the information, Chris! 

I have just one question about an intermittent issue...the Tivo "blup" sounds seems to not work consistently. Is anyone else having this problem? 

Not worth sending it back for, but just confusing as to why the sound drops out intermittently.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Cheryl


----------



## ramy

I have had that problem too, the sounds work on SD channels but not on HD channels. Is that where it isn't working for you also?


----------



## speedcouch

ramy said:


> I have had that problem too, the sounds work on SD channels but not on HD channels. Is that where it isn't working for you also?


I haven't really noticed which channels it doesn't work on, but I was just in the menus and it wasn't working (which I've noticed intermittently as well). I'll check to see if the sound goes off after I've been on an HD channel.

Cheryl


----------



## purefct

Hi Chris,

I noticed you had to replace your HDD in Sep-04. Everything still looking good? Also I heard from my cousin the new Tivos use serial drives rather than parallel. Can you verify which you're using? Are there two interface connections for serial and any for parallel? I was thinking of buying the HR10-250 and daisy chaining two sets of 4-5 serial drives to acheive 200-300 hrs of HD recording. My current series 2 has a pair of drives with a total of 274GB, yielding a little more than 77 hours on Best Quality. I used to keep shows when I was at High Quality which let me store 126 hrs.


----------



## Chris Blount

purefct said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> I noticed you had to replace your HDD in Sep-04. Everything still looking good? Also I heard from my cousin the new Tivos use serial drives rather than parallel. Can you verify which you're using? Are there two interface connections for serial and any for parallel? I was thinking of buying the HR10-250 and daisy chaining two sets of 4-5 serial drives to acheive 200-300 hrs of HD recording. My current series 2 has a pair of drives with a total of 274GB, yielding a little more than 77 hours on Best Quality. I used to keep shows when I was at High Quality which let me store 126 hrs.


 Hi purefct,

Yes, my unit is still working fine since it was replaced. No problems at all.

Since I haven't had it open, I can't tell you what sort of connections are being used for the HD.


----------



## bmgriggs

We have had the HD Tivo box since July and absolutely love it except for two small problems: 
1.) We greatly miss the Caller ID feature that was on our Dish PVR box.....any news on Direct TV getting this option anytime soon?

2.) Sometimes it freezes up overnight. It will pause on a certain screen from the night before and when we turn it on the next morning, it is still on there. We have to unplug it and start the boot sequence all over. Anybody know any reason for this or should we send this back to Best Buy? (can't remember if it's still under warranty or not, although for that kind of money, we hope so.)

Thanks for any help in advance.


----------



## Chris Blount

bmgriggs said:


> We have had the HD Tivo box since July and absolutely love it except for two small problems:
> 1.) We greatly miss the Caller ID feature that was on our Dish PVR box.....any news on Direct TV getting this option anytime soon?
> 
> 2.) Sometimes it freezes up overnight. It will pause on a certain screen from the night before and when we turn it on the next morning, it is still on there. We have to unplug it and start the boot sequence all over. Anybody know any reason for this or should we send this back to Best Buy? (can't remember if it's still under warranty or not, although for that kind of money, we hope so.)
> 
> Thanks for any help in advance.


You box should not be freezing up like that. I noticed the same problem when my box starting going bad. It got progressively worse until it wouldn't even boot. Might want to write down your season passes and other settings and consider returning your box now before it goes completely out.

No word from Tivo about whether or not the caller ID feature will get activated. Right now it can be done but you have to hack your box.


----------



## aaronwt

No serial drives(SATA), just parallel drives(PATA)


----------



## tchyde

Anyone else experience a problem with Channels You recieve and Favorite Channels? on a HR10-250? It's almost as if both features don't work on my unit!

I keep seeting these up to try and get rid of all the Spanish Channels and they still show up as I go thru the channels? Otherwise my unit has now been flawless for several months. It's just annoying. I also don't see any option to only display favorite channels. I think this option is on my older standard TIVO unit?

Just curious


----------



## dswallow

tchyde said:


> Anyone else experience a problem with Channels You recieve and Favorite Channels? on a HR10-250? It's almost as if both features don't work on my unit!
> 
> I keep seeting these up to try and get rid of all the Spanish Channels and they still show up as I go thru the channels? Otherwise my unit has now been flawless for several months. It's just annoying. I also don't see any option to only display favorite channels. I think this option is on my older standard TIVO unit?
> 
> Just curious


Are you switching the guide into displaying only channels you receive? By default it displays all channels. Display the guide, press INFO, and set the option.

So two steps are involved; marking the channels you receive, and setting the guide into the proper mode.


----------



## DNewton

Just wanted to post a quick thanks to Chris for the review and also to others here who have taken the time to share their experiences with the 250 unit, both good and bad. Based on the input here, I finally broke down and bought a 250 about a week ago. It is worth every penny. I am as amazed at pausing live HD and watching recorded HD as I was 3 years ago when I fired up my first SD TiVo. For those on the fence, take the plunge. You'll be thrilled with the results!


----------



## Chris Blount

DNewton said:


> Just wanted to post a quick thanks to Chris for the review and also to others here who have taken the time to share their experiences with the 250 unit, both good and bad. Based on the input here, I finally broke down and bought a 250 about a week ago. It is worth every penny. I am as amazed at pausing live HD and watching recorded HD as I was 3 years ago when I fired up my first SD TiVo. For those on the fence, take the plunge. You'll be thrilled with the results!


You are very welcome Mr Newton. Glad you are enjoying your new toy. I agree with you, recording, skipping and pausing HD is VERY cool!


----------



## garyj

chris,

i have had my system for one month. the initial hr10-250 receiver was faulty at installation and i had to get a store replacement. now after one month of working perfectly, today the tv could not get an audio or video signal from the receiver. it was set up with hdmi, but i tried other cabling with no success. i have reset the receiver with no success. any thoughts as to what causes this. direct tv will be sending a replacement. do you know if this is just an unreliable unit?


----------



## Chris Blount

garyj said:


> chris,
> 
> i have had my system for one month. the initial hr10-250 receiver was faulty at installation and i had to get a store replacement. now after one month of working perfectly, today the tv could not get an audio or video signal from the receiver. it was set up with hdmi, but i tried other cabling with no success. i have reset the receiver with no success. any thoughts as to what causes this. direct tv will be sending a replacement. do you know if this is just an unreliable unit?


Yes, it looks like you may have another bad unit. Take the replacement. I don't believe the entire HR10-250 line is unreliable but some people are having more trouble than others. The good thing is that DirecTV is very good about replacing bad units. Your next unit will probably be just fine.

BTW: Welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s


----------



## LDA

First I would like to thank you Chris for your detailed review of the HR10-250 and also all forum participants for their useful input. 

I have an HR10-250 connected to a Sharp LC-45GD6U LCD display via HDMI. When I power on the LCD, the display color is tinted pink. This happens 75% of the time, otherwise the display color is correct. Once the LCD is powered on I can use the front panel button on the HR10 to scroll through the output resolutions until I return to 1080i. The LCD monitor then corrects the color. Apparently the LCD monitor's synchronizing circuitry is not operating properly. I am however not certain this is the problem and perhaps there is another compatibility issue between this LCD and the HR10. I do not have this issue using the component video connection.

Have you or any forum members encountered and solved this problem? Both DIRECTV and Sharp tech support have been unable to resolve this issue. Per their recommendations I have already exchanged both the HR10 and the LCD. The problem persists.


----------



## RickB

I am in a motorhome with one dish on the roof which has a switch that electrically goes between 110 and 119 on Dish. It only has a twin lnb and I want to switch to Direct TV because of the H-10 versus the 921 which I didn't like.

My question is if I am on the road I can only switch between 2 satellites and Dish is better because I understand if you want HD with Direct TV you need to be able to go to 3 satellites. Is that true.

101/110/119 or can you get everything on 101 and 110? Hope this is clear.


----------



## RAD

If you want HD then you really need to go with the phase III, 3 LNB dish. D* has this habit of moving their HD channels around from slot to slot with no notice, so what works today may not work in the future. Currenrly their HD programming is spread out over all three slots. Check at http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/america.html and look for the channels in the 70 to 99 range for the HD channels at all three slots.


----------



## Chris Blount

FYI - I've updated the review with my latest hard drive problems with the HR10-250.

http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm


----------



## rb5505

i've been reading about those with extended warranties on this and any other equipment for directv and have a couple questions. 

we recently got 2 directv r10 tivo's from circuit city (reimbursed in full by directv due to a missed install appt) and will soon likely get the hdtivo model from directv. circuit city covers the r10's for 3 mos p&l. how long does directv cover the hdtivo model? circuits warranty on it is 12 mos parts/3 mos labor. whatever it is, wouldn't it be wise for me to drop the directv monthly protection plan i have now, until the hdtivo model warranty runs out? or does directv offer a ext warranty on the hdtivo? 

thanks.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Chris Blount said:


> FYI - I've updated the review with my latest hard drive problems with the HR10-250.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/reviews/HR10-250_HD_Tivo/index.htm


Wow your 3rd box in only a year? Thats not good.


----------



## Chris Blount

rb5505 said:


> i've been reading about those with extended warranties on this and any other equipment for directv and have a couple questions.
> 
> we recently got 2 directv r10 tivo's from circuit city (reimbursed in full by directv due to a missed install appt) and will soon likely get the hdtivo model from directv. circuit city covers the r10's for 3 mos p&l. how long does directv cover the hdtivo model? circuits warranty on it is 12 mos parts/3 mos labor. whatever it is, wouldn't it be wise for me to drop the directv monthly protection plan i have now, until the hdtivo model warranty runs out? or does directv offer a ext warranty on the hdtivo?
> 
> thanks.


When I bought my HD-Tivo, DirecTV warranted it for 1 year parts and labor.

If you already have the protection plan, you might as well keep it. It will cover everything.


----------



## k5cc

I had my Samsung HD receiver replaced two days ago with the HR10-250. I have scanned and
found the HD stations in San Antonio and Austin (I"M lucky, I am in between and get
both cities.) The Samsung picked up analog signals but apparently the HR10-250 receives only digital signals. Is this correct. This is not a big deal but I do have one other
issue that is more important - Some of the OTA signals show up in a box format and
I cannot get them to fill the screen. I have a wide screen TV. I use the ratio button
but nothing happens. What is strange is that the same program coming down from
Directv as a local feed can be made to fill the screen from the ratio button. I believe
I have made all the settings as recommended. The Samsung HD receiver had a 
Format button which I could use to fill the screen on any signal. This is frustrating
when a HD football game is on and I can't get a wide screen picture. I have a
non HD Tivo receiver on another TV so not having any problems with recording.
Thanks for any guidance Jack Bulverde TX


----------



## greywolf

The HR10-250 does not have an analog tuner.

Are you sure the content is HD? A lot of digital programming is upconvered 4:3 SD. All HD is 16:9. The HR10-250 really only properly supports widescreen TVs so you're okay there. Its two screen options for non HD programming are panel and full. The TV's options need to be used beyond that. My TV will allow use of different ratio options for different input resolutions and will also allow manipulation of HD and upconverted material. Many do not. Be assured that if there are sidebars on a program, it isn't HD but 480i or upconverted from 480i. At worst you ought to be able to set the box output to 480i and use the TVs aspect ratio control to your satisfaction. A 4:3 original picture needs some sort of manipulation to fill a 16:9 screen. Even if that picture is a 16:9 image letterboxed within a 4:3 frame, it will need to be zoomed to get rid of the all around border.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Is it true that the HD-Tivo can record OTA channels without having to have the receiver activated by D*? Does that mean that you go thru Tivo to get the guide info? Thanks.


----------



## Marvin

I got mine last month, and Im really enjoying it so far except for one minor problem.

One of my local channels, UPN21 (a digital broadcast SD channel), the video is really blurry and choppy. I've tried every combination of screen sizes (full/panel) and resolution aside from 480i since Im using HDMI, and I can't get the video to look right. My other 3 local channels are fine, and UPN21 itself is fine on my tv's built in tuner, so its really a case of the tivo recordings of the channel being really bad (actually worse than when its live). Any ideas?


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Marvin said:


> I got mine last month, and Im really enjoying it so far except for one minor problem.
> 
> One of my local channels, UPN21 (a digital broadcast SD channel), the video is really blurry and choppy. I've tried every combination of screen sizes (full/panel) and resolution aside from 480i since Im using HDMI, and I can't get the video to look right. My other 3 local channels are fine, and UPN21 itself is fine on my tv's built in tuner, so its really a case of the tivo recordings of the channel being really bad (actually worse than when its live). Any ideas?


When you say "choppy" do you mean pixelating? If so this has nothing to do with screen size but rather reception. With digital you either get it or you don't, so thats probably why your picture is "choppy."


----------



## JLucPicard

My WB affiliate registers about mid 50's down to mid 40's signal strength-wise. Pixilates a lot. All my other digital locals come in great OTA. That's just the case sometimes.


----------



## Marvin

theratpatrol said:


> When you say "choppy" do you mean pixelating? If so this has nothing to do with screen size but rather reception. With digital you either get it or you don't, so thats probably why your picture is "choppy."


Its not pixelated, and its not a reception problem, my tuner in my TV can pick it up just fine. Choppy was probably a bad word to use to describe it, but its kind of hard to describe. The picture isn't smooth, its jerky, especially in scenes with a lot of movement. Its only a problem with UPN21, all of the other digital channels come in fine. And, the picture is fine on my D10 that I have running as well on another set.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Marvin said:


> Its not pixelated, and its not a reception problem, my tuner in my TV can pick it up just fine. Choppy was probably a bad word to use to describe it, but its kind of hard to describe. The picture isn't smooth, its jerky, especially in scenes with a lot of movement. Its only a problem with UPN21, all of the other digital channels come in fine. And, the picture is fine on my D10 that I have running as well on another set.


Ok gotcha, sorry about that.


----------



## Art

Hi folks,
I placed my order yesterday for HR10-250, and now I'm going through the specs on the receiver and it says it has only 1 remote which is IR. Dish's 942 has 2 and one of them is a UHF remote, and that makes sense. Now, I'm just curious how am i supposed to watch a second TV which is in my bedroom if I am to keep the receiver in the living room? I can't flick through the channels with IR remote if I'm not in same room with the receiver, right? 
Those with the experience, how do you guys make use of the dual tuner system (other than watching one show while recording another at same time)? I can't picture somebody's wife yelling from another room:"Honey, could you switch from HBO to Food Channel on my TV, please!" Or is it how it works? And if it is (I hope it's not) is there a way to bypass this nightmare scenario?

As always, thanks for your replies.


----------



## Phil T

The HR10-250 is not designed with multiple outputs like the 942. It does allow recording two HD, SD or any combination of satellite or OTA digital signals, but only has a single output.

Rumor is that the Home Media System due out sometime next year will feed multiple HD or SD sets.


----------



## Art

Phil T, does single output mean that I can record but not watch TWO different channels at same time?

Thanks.


----------



## Art

I mean there's no RF output that I can use as a second output? What about PiP? will it work?


----------



## RAD

Art said:


> I mean there's no RF output that I can use as a second output? What about PiP? will it work?


There is no PIP. Stop thinking that this is a E* DVR it isn't, it's just a DVR for one TV without a lot of features (there's no caller ID also before you ask that question). It does one thing and does it very well, record HD and SD programs for later playback. Yes, it doesn't has as many bells and whistles as E* DVR's but it also doesn't need to be rebooted all the time, loose programes, freeze up, not record shows, etc.


----------



## Phil T

Rad said it best. It works great for one HD set. You will not get PIP because only one output can be active at a time.

If you have a second set, you will need a second receiver.


----------



## Art

Thanks for your reply, RAD (even though you breaking my heart  ). I didn't know HD Tivo is such a conservative machine. It's good if it's reliable though as you just described, but my impression was that 942 is just as good + all the features. it's 921 that would cause all sorts of problems. But I didn't own any of those, so I wouldn't know for sure. Combine this with the fact that E* has much more HD content and makes you wonder why people even go with D* HD receivers unless they are soccer nuts like myself. E* do not have Setanta Sports and ESPN2 HD, and that's my reason for swithing to D*.


----------



## Hoppy

Chris Blount said:


> Yes, it looks like you may have another bad unit. Take the replacement. I don't believe the entire HR10-250 line is unreliable but some people are having more trouble than others. The good thing is that DirecTV is very good about replacing bad units. Your next unit will probably be just fine.
> 
> BTW: Welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s


I guess this isn't entirely off-topic. I have the HR10-250 with HD and a Panny ES-10 DVD recorder. I want to pass one signal from one D* tuner through to the DVD recorder in real time, and watch to other D* tuner. In short, record a 12Noon football game to DVD and while doing so watch the Astros baseball game on another channel.

This does not seem to be possible as whatever you are watching is being output (via composite audio and S-Video).

Anyway around this?

Alternative is to record both, watch one, and do the copy to DVD later, I guess.


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## greywolf

The alternative will be required.


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## Hoppy

greywolf said:


> The alternative will be required.


Thanks. Did that. Game lasted 6 HRS. Will not DVD it.

So there is no way to dub to the DVD recorder (ES-10, but thinking about changing to SONY GX-300) without tying up the D* HR10-250 completely? Man, that is a bummer.


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## TheRatPatrol

Hoppy said:


> Thanks. Did that. Game lasted 6 HRS. Will not DVD it.
> 
> So there is no way to dub to the DVD recorder (ES-10, but thinking about changing to SONY GX-300) without tying up the D* HR10-250 completely? Man, that is a bummer.


Or you could get a stand alone receiver and hook that up to the DVD player, that is if you want to pay the 4.99 a month mirror fee.


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## hxl7

Chris Blount said:


> I have posted my review of the HR10-250 at the following link:
> 
> I will be happy to answer any questions so ask away.
> 
> Thanks!


Hello, Chris,
Thanks for all of the great information and for this site.
I am trying to decide whether to go with Dish and the 942 or with Directv and its HD receiver. 
Having used both, do you have any recommendations or criteria by whihc I could make a decision ?
Thank you.
Bill


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## BOSSCAT

I am currently on cable (Cox) and use a TIVO Series 2 with the Server Desktop 2.2 software. Since I like HD and this box would not handle it I have 2 cable boxes one for HD (which I can't record  ) and a regular cable box for the TIVO with seperate inputs to my Plasma.

I have saved a ton of albums and digital pictures on my computer and enjoy via the TIVO server.
Cox does not support TIVO.
I would like to go to Direct TV and use thier new HD box but no one can tell me if that box supports the pictures and music functionality of my current TIVO.

Also, are there any other alternate boxes (non-TIVO) which could provide similar functionality?  

Nobody at Circuit city knew!


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## TK106

My HR10-250, purchased October 2005, is 95% perfect.
Here is the other 5%: About once every hour, when watching recorded programs, it stops, and the screen goes black. All you have to do is to rewind a bit, and it starts up again fine, going smoothly through where it had just stopped. We are debating whether it is worthwhile to return it & get a new one. Anyone else seen this problem? Guesses what it is - software or hardware? Think it will get worse?


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## bpratt

> I would like to go to Direct TV and use thier new HD box but no one can tell me if that box supports the pictures and music functionality of my current TIVO.


It doesn't.


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## Chris Blount

TK106 said:


> My HR10-250, purchased October 2005, is 95% perfect.
> Here is the other 5%: About once every hour, when watching recorded programs, it stops, and the screen goes black. All you have to do is to rewind a bit, and it starts up again fine, going smoothly through where it had just stopped. We are debating whether it is worthwhile to return it & get a new one. Anyone else seen this problem? Guesses what it is - software or hardware? Think it will get worse?


Hi TK. Welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s

Get it replaced. It shouldn't be doing that. Might be hard drive related


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## KenW

TK106 said:


> . . . the screen goes black.


Are you sure it's the TiVo, and not the TV?

If you're sure, I'd get DirecTV to replace it. They should do it for free, so why not?


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## durl

I just got my H10-250 hooked up yesterday. I was hoping some of you could help me with some questions. (I've been using a Sony HD-200 for several years.)

1. Is there a way to get the receiver to automatically tune to a program WITHOUT recording it? We like to program a show in so that we don't miss the beginning.

2. When should I use Standby? It's my understanding that the unit's always on anyway, so I'm not sure if I should put it in Standby at night or if that's just for extended periods of non-use.

3. Did anyone else noticing HD channels appearing to be much softer compared to a previous HD receiver? They almost seem fuzzy compared to my Sony.

4. Why would the unit be recording shows that I never told it to record? Last night, it started recording an NBA game that I never set up.

My first impression (after only 5-6 hours of use) is that it's a good DVR, but not the best receiver. It seems that they traded off some satellite receiver functionality for DVR functions. Maybe I just need to learn more about how it works.


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## RAD

durl said:


> I just got my H10-250 hooked up yesterday. I was hoping some of you could help me with some questions. (I've been using a Sony HD-200 for several years.)
> 
> 1. Is there a way to get the receiver to automatically tune to a program WITHOUT recording it? We like to program a show in so that we don't miss the beginning.
> 
> 2. When should I use Standby? It's my understanding that the unit's always on anyway, so I'm not sure if I should put it in Standby at night or if that's just for extended periods of non-use.
> 
> 3. Did anyone else noticing HD channels appearing to be much softer compared to a previous HD receiver? They almost seem fuzzy compared to my Sony.
> 
> 4. Why would the unit be recording shows that I never told it to record? Last night, it started recording an NBA game that I never set up.
> 
> My first impression (after only 5-6 hours of use) is that it's a good DVR, but not the best receiver. It seems that they traded off some satellite receiver functionality for DVR functions. Maybe I just need to learn more about how it works.


#1 - Nope, no auto tune.

#2 - Don't bother with standby, it really doesn't do anything except shut off the outputs.

#3 - I haven't noticed that with mine. Sure you have the output resolution of the box set to at least 720p or 1080i?

#4 - Have you turned off Tivo Sugguestions (it's in the settings). Else Tivo will start to record shows that it THINKS you like to watch on its own.


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## durl

RAD:

Thanks for the info.

1. Dang-it.

2. I figured as much. I assumed that since this thing is essentially a computer that displays TV, standby wasn't a big deal.

3. My HD monitor doesn't do 720p so I set it up to do 480i, 480p, and 1080i. It just seemed very soft on 1080i. I have noticed that 480i stuff looks MUCH better on this unit than my Sony since it will output 480i via component outputs.

4. I did NOT catch that setting. I'll be sure to dig into that today!

One more quick question: Will Directv update the software on this thing so that the guide will refresh quicker? This thing is PAINFULLY slow. The current software version is 3.1 "something". I'm concerned that I've gotten an outdated machine (it still has the Tivo logos and I don't know if D* has started putting out it's own machine yet) that they won't bother to upgrade.


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## RAD

durl said:


> RAD:
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> 
> 1. Dang-it.
> 
> 2. I figured as much. I assumed that since this thing is essentially a computer that displays TV, standby wasn't a big deal.
> 
> 3. My HD monitor doesn't do 720p so I set it up to do 480i, 480p, and 1080i. It just seemed very soft on 1080i. I have noticed that 480i stuff looks MUCH better on this unit than my Sony since it will output 480i via component outputs.
> 
> 4. I did NOT catch that setting. I'll be sure to dig into that today!
> 
> One more quick question: Will Directv update the software on this thing so that the guide will refresh quicker? This thing is PAINFULLY slow. The current software version is 3.1 "something". I'm concerned that I've gotten an outdated machine (it still has the Tivo logos and I don't know if D* has started putting out it's own machine yet) that they won't bother to upgrade.


As of this time there is no announcement from D* that they'll upgrade the software to the 6.2 (or greater) version which greatly improves the speed of the guide and adds the folder options. It was rumored that D*/Tivo was working on porting the upgrade but I haven't heard anything about it lately. You might want to try using the other grid style, I forget the name for it, when in the guide hit info then select the other grid style and see if it's faster for you.


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## Chris Blount

Use the Tivo Guide style. The grid style is very slow and cumbersome.


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## cheer

durl said:


> One more quick question: Will Directv update the software on this thing so that the guide will refresh quicker? This thing is PAINFULLY slow. The current software version is 3.1 "something". I'm concerned that I've gotten an outdated machine (it still has the Tivo logos and I don't know if D* has started putting out it's own machine yet) that they won't bother to upgrade.


Nobody knows for sure. The current version is 3.1.5f. Other DirecTV Tivos are running 6.1 or 6.2, which has faster menus, etc., but it's not yet compatible with the HD Tivo.

Most speculation is that since D* is coming out with their own, non-Tivo HD DVR that there won't be any further upgrades to the HR10-250, but in truth we have no idea.


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## JLucPicard

durl,

One thing I just found about the guide is that if you use the fast forward (rewind) buttons, they jump the time forward (or back) about an hour and a half versus one block at a time using the round left/right buttons. Helps a little, but not much. I tend to just use the Tivo guide.

As for the auto tune, if I'm interested in watching a show (nearly) live and want to make sure the channel gets changed, I will set up a manual recording starting on time with a five minute duration. Takes up next to nothing space-wise for a recorded program and the channel gets set right and on time. If you are watching live, you should be able to watch straight thru. If you start watching after the first five minutes, you may need to watch the recorded version first, then live. Not ideal, but it works for me.

The "Suggestions" setting allows you to set to record or not record suggestions. Any programs recorded this way will only record when they do not interfere with programs you have set to record, and will be the first programs deleted when space becomes tight. Some people like this feature, I personally have it turned off. If you do use it, you can "teach" it what you watch by using the "Thumbs Up" and "Thimbs Down" buttons.

I hope you like your unit. I thinks its the bees knees.


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## durl

Thanks for the info, JLuc.

Good tips about the forward/rewind buttons. That's the kind of info I need to help me get used to this unit.

I turned off the Suggestions last night. My wife called me at work yesterday and asked me why I recorded 3-4 movies the night before. I told her about the automatic setting. I'm just glad it didn't get any "questionable" movies. 

I think I'm going to like it. I wish it had some more of the basic functionality of my Sony HD-200, but the trade-off of recording in HD should make up for it. Some things I wish it could do:

1. Auto-tune. It's great to have the receiver tune for you.
2. Closed-captioning with the touch of a single button. I missed some dialog on Lost last night because I just couldn't understand what was being muttered.
3. Extra detail on the show. With the HD-200, when looking at the guide, you could hit Display to get description, stars, and director.
4. FASTER GUIDES. But don't we all want that?
5. Automatic output format. While it's nice to be able to flip output format with the push of a button, I wish it would change display automatically based upon the format received. When it gets a 720p signal, display it at 1080i, when it gets a 480i signal, display it at 480i, etc. This one isn't a biggie.

Anyway, just the ramblings of a DVR newbie. You guys are a great resource.


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## garyswri

anyone having problems with this model ota reception. My unit continually loses some channels on ota digital stations. Never had a problem with my sony hd200. only switched over for dvr functions and guess I lost some features.


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## durl

gary, I just switched from an HD200 and really miss it's functionality.

To answer your question, I haven't noticed any problems, but I've only had mine for a couple of weeks. I'm pretty happy with OTA on the DVR.


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## RAD

garyswri said:


> anyone having problems with this model ota reception. My unit continually loses some channels on ota digital stations. Never had a problem with my sony hd200. only switched over for dvr functions and guess I lost some features.


I haven't had an issue. Some folks have said that since there's an internal signal splitter in the box that they've had problems and needed to boost the signal a bit.


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## reubenray

Just received this DVR and was wanting to turn it off. Where is the power button for the DVR on the remote?


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## Chris Blount

reubenray said:


> Just received this DVR and was wanting to turn it off. Where is the power button for the DVR on the remote?


There is no power button. You can, however, place the unit in "standby" which only really turns off the audio and video outputs.

The HR10-250 is always on whether in standby or not.


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## greywolf

The same can be said for just about any DirecTV receiver except for the button labling. The off button really doesn't turn off the box, just the output.


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## reubenray

OK- no problem. I thought I read somewhere that they turned the receiver off because it was overheating.


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## vurbano

the off button is the power plug connection on the back.


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## KennyP

I'm considering buying an HR10-250. I already have HD D*. Where do you guys suggest I go to buy it, or do I need to purchase it through D*? 

Thanks,
KennyP


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## Wolffpack

Kenny,

Take a look at this thread.

If you've been with DTV for a while and have a higher priced package or options, they will work a deal for you. After rebates/credits and programming credits I ended up getting a HR10-250 for $45. I just got that deal last week. Give DTV a call and ask for customer retention right away. Then just ask them how they can get you into an HD Tivo.


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## KennyP

Great. I will give that a try. Thanks for the tip!


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## ganz

I never thought to buy my DVR strsight through D*. I've called to negotiate my programing rates before and they almost always applied a credit over a few months.


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## Lord Vader

Wolffpack said:


> Kenny,
> 
> Take a look at this thread.
> 
> If you've been with DTV for a while and have a higher priced package or options, they will work a deal for you. After rebates/credits and programming credits I ended up getting a HR10-250 for $45. I just got that deal last week. Give DTV a call and ask for customer retention right away. Then just ask them how they can get you into an HD Tivo.


Well, I've been a customer of theirs for over 8 years and the best they would to for me is to sell me the HR10-250 for $399 after the instant rebate of $200 and give me free installation. Big frickin' deal.

I'm not going to pay $400 for this unit when I am sure I can find it elsewhere for much less. So much for DirecTV taking care of their "best" customers.


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## tall1

Lord Vader said:


> Well, I've been a customer of theirs for over 8 years and the best they would to for me is to sell me the HR10-250 for $399 after the instant rebate of $200 and give me free installation. Big frickin' deal.
> 
> I'm not going to pay $400 for this unit when I am sure I can find it elsewhere for much less. So much for DirecTV taking care of their "best" customers.


Same here. I am wondering if you would be eligible for the $200 MIR too. As long as you purchase before 2/28/2006 and postmark it by 4/30/2006 I think you can use it too.


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## vernsh

Lord Vader said:


> Well, I've been a customer of theirs for over 8 years and the best they would to for me is to sell me the HR10-250 for $399 after the instant rebate of $200 and give me free installation. Big frickin' deal.
> 
> I'm not going to pay $400 for this unit when I am sure I can find it elsewhere for much less. So much for DirecTV taking care of their "best" customers.


Oh the pain of being an early adopter. I paid $950 for mine back in July 2004. Plus I've dropped another bundle to upgrade it to 2x400gb Harddrives. Someone on eBay is selling a brand new one for $290 plus $20 shipping which is the cheapest I've seen one. There's a $200 rebate offer on the table for February which makes this price possible so you should consider that if you're in the market.


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## aaronwt

Wow!! What a huge difference! I sold 4 HD-TiVos on Ebay for $1400 and 2 for $1700 back in May/June 2004.
The profit paid for my two units and replacing the original WD drive with two MAxtor 250GB drives in each unit.


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## Earl Bonovich

Well folks...

Seeing that the HR10-250 is nearly 2 years old... And isn't changing much more...
I am going to de-sticky the thread...

It will still be around, via searches and other means.

In the upcomming months/year... we will see a few new "forums" sections for some of DirecTV's upcomming HD products... HR20; Home Media Center; just to name a few...

The HR10-250 is a great little box... still is my primary system...


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## sfascu

I am new to this board, so, please excuse my ignorance.

I am a current Directv customer and would like to upgrade to HD. I do not care whether it will be Directv, DISH, or cable. My only requirement is the Boomerang channel. I would like to stay with Directv. Is it OK to purchase the HR10-250 at this time and forgo the newer system? I realize that MPEG4 will become standard in a few years. I do not mind changing system in 2 years. Or should I go with Comcast or DISH? All I care is to get the HD by the end of this week for the NCAA tournament coming up. I know that the members of this board is quite verse in the issue. Any light you can shed will be greatly appreciated.

BTW, the upfront lease of $499 with Directv is annoying in my opinion.

Thanks.


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## cheer

The lease option surely is annoying.

On the other hand, in my humble opinion the HR10-250 is still the best HD DVR out there, so if it were me I'd get the HR10-250 via DirecTV (and, when it _was_ me, I did!). 

--chris


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## YoUTHaN

I am interested in this unit, HR10-250 HD tIVO, but I need to know if it will support out of the box MPEG4 .


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## Lord Vader

No. The HR20-700 and HR20-100 HD DVRs will. The HD TIVO is on its way to becoming obsolete.


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