# CES2009: DIRECTV AM21 wins Innovation award



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Despite the fact that DIRECTV's presence is very muted at the CES show, it's worth saying that the AM21 off air tuner for MPEG4 DVRs won an Innovation Award this year.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Despite the fact that DIRECTV's presence is very muted at the CES show, it's worth saying that the AM21 off air tuner for MPEG4 DVRs won an Innovation Award this year.


Richly deserved. I have two of them and they work nicely. I'm most happy with tuner performance, and since I do most of my recording OTA, it's nice to have a good tuner in the box!


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Kudos to the AM21 team!


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Sweet! I'm very happy with both of mine. I think it the AM21 was an excellent solution to keeping the HD Equipment cost/price lower while offering an effective add-on for folks that want OTA reception.


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## JeffTex42 (Sep 14, 2007)

I must say that I was hoping D* would have some splash at CES. In any case, this award just got them an order for an AM21. I had been holding off.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Sweet! I am proud that I, along with a group of very distinguished fellow DBSTalkers, was among the Field Testers for the for this little box just about a year ago now. I'm glad the AM21 is working out as well as we all thought it would and glad to see Directv getting the recognition it deserves for it.


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## Surveyor40 (Jan 5, 2006)

Awesome, congrats to the D* team! The AM21 works so well, integrates way too easy, and interfaces like a glove.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Despite the fact that DIRECTV's presence is very muted at the CES show, it's worth saying that the AM21 off air tuner for MPEG4 DVRs won an Innovation Award this year.


It is such a shame they win an award for an after thought. D* orignally thought seeing they offered HD locals there was no need for an ATSC tuner in the receivers. And now there only recognition for this year is from an after thought that consumers pushed for.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Wow! That's great! Congrats!


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Nice product (aside from the audio stutter), but not what I would call "innovative" considering what it replaced.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Am I the only one that finds this just a bit odd? Their original DVR had OTA tuners. They then removed them and sold us something new to add them back. I understand the reasons why they did this and from a business standpoint it may very well be a fantastic idea, but from a technology standpoint what's the big deal?


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> Nice product (aside from the audio stutter), but not what I would call "innovative" considering what it replaced.





Sirshagg said:


> Am I the only one that finds this just a bit odd? Their original DVR had OTA tuners. They then removed them and sold us something new to add them back. I understand the reasons why they did this and from a business standpoint it may very well be a fantastic idea, but from a technology standpoint what's the big deal?


No.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Sirshagg said:


> Am I the only one that finds this just a bit odd? Their original DVR had OTA tuners. They then removed them and sold us something new to add them back. I understand the reasons why they did this and from a business standpoint it may very well be a fantastic idea, but from a technology standpoint what's the big deal?


The only way they would get my vote for an award on it, would be to put it back in the receiver, where it belongs. But we all know that won't happen.


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## WERA689 (Oct 15, 2006)

I'm also proud to have been in the field test for this device. Best OTA tuner I have in my collection of D* receivers! And, to all the naysayers: Four out of my five IRD's have built-in OTA tuners! so there!


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

boba said:


> It is such a shame they win an award for an after thought. D* orignally thought seeing they offered HD locals there was no need for an ATSC tuner in the receivers. And now there only recognition for this year is from an after thought that consumers pushed for.


It wasn't an afterthought, it just didn't come out at the same time as the HR21.

If it was an afterthought, as you insist, we probably wouldn't have them yet. An afterthought doesn't come out as fast as they did after the HR21.

It's been explained numerous times why the ATSC tuners were removed from the DVR itself. The need? Reduce costs...


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

The integrated tuner units work so much better than the AM21. It is definately not award worthy. It pixelates every very dark scene.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

It is nice especially since it will work with an R22 SD DVR without the need for HD access....


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Juppers said:


> The integrated tuner units work so much better than the AM21. It is definately not award worthy. It pixelates every very dark scene.


In my experience, the AM21's tuners are slightly better than those on my HR20. Mine is a field test unit with early firmware, but I doubt they have changed anything which would degrade the performance.

The tuner on the H20-600 I had was probably better, but that thing ran HOT!

The price of the HR21 dropped $100 compared to the HR20 and the AM21 is $50, so we are still ahead.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

boba said:


> It is such a shame they win an award for an after thought. D* orignally thought seeing they offered HD locals there was no need for an ATSC tuner in the receivers. And now there only recognition for this year is from an after thought that consumers pushed for.




To bad there's not an award for the highest percentage of incorrect sentences in one post. You'd be a shoo in at 3 for 3 (100%).


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

It's laughable that a product whose very existence was necessitated by DirecTV's breaking (imo) the functionality of its newer DVRs wins an innovation award. It's a friggin' OTA tuner add on in an entirely separate box for crying out loud. It's predecessor was actually built in! Innovation Award? Really?!


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

I have mixed feeling about this award, while all three of my AM21s work great, E* followed D* to have their OTA optional, only that E*'s OTA module has two OTA tuners and allows the HD DVR to record two OTA HD channels at the same time, that in addition to the two sat tuners recording at the same time for a total of 4 recording at the same time.

I will say this, my AM21s definitely should look nicer than the E* OTA module because the E* module is invisible when properly installed


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## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

Regardless of need/want OTA, broke/fixed DVRs, etc., what is innovative about taking some the size of a flash drive, making it much bigger and charging more for it? It does what it was designed to do, and most say it does it well, but so does a sewing machine?


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## Rence (Sep 3, 2007)

Nice product if you can get it -- called and ordered 2 HD DVRs to add to the one we already have (which has a built in off the air tuner). We ordered one AM21 to go with one of the new HD DVRs.

Couple days later 2 HD DVRs arrived, went on-line, said order shipped complete. Called up said that they missed our AM21 - no problem, rep will order me one right up (now remember I am BUYING this, not asking for it for free). Sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area where we have HD locals. Well we only get ABC, FOX and NBC - no CBS, no CW, no PBS - I want an AM21 - Sorry sir, I can't sell it to you.

Not happy, I call retention - been with them 12 years, never called retention before - Sorry sir, we can't sell you one because you live in an area served by HD locals -- She checks with supervisor -- sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area that is served by HD locals -- You can get one at Best Buy (wrong - already checked my local BB store and the BB website, BB doesn't carry them). She ends up giving me a $200 credit because I ask her to explain why DTV won't SELL me an AM21 so that I can get 3 networks in HD that DTV is not providing. That will more than cover the cost of ordering one from someone else - but it sure seems moronic to have the AM21 and then refuse to sell it to customers that want it. They could have sold it to me and made a small profit and kept me happy, instead it cost them $200 and I'm still irritated.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

jacmyoung said:


> I have mixed feeling about this award, while all three of my AM21s work great, E* followed D* to have their OTA optional, only that E*'s OTA module has two OTA tuners and allows the HD DVR to record two OTA HD channels at the same time, that in addition to the two sat tuners recording at the same time for a total of 4 recording at the same time.
> 
> I will say this, my AM21s definitely should look nicer than the E* OTA module because the E* module is invisible when properly installed


Also, the E* tuner was availble the day that the first k model receivers were.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Rence said:


> Nice product if you can get it -- called and ordered 2 HD DVRs to add to the one we already have (which has a built in off the air tuner). We ordered one AM21 to go with one of the new HD DVRs.
> 
> Couple days later 2 HD DVRs arrived, went on-line, said order shipped complete. Called up said that they missed our AM21 - no problem, rep will order me one right up (now remember I am BUYING this, not asking for it for free). Sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area where we have HD locals. Well we only get ABC, FOX and NBC - no CBS, no CW, no PBS - I want an AM21 - Sorry sir, I can't sell it to you.
> 
> Not happy, I call retention - been with them 12 years, never called retention before - Sorry sir, we can't sell you one because you live in an area served by HD locals -- She checks with supervisor -- sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area that is served by HD locals -- You can get one at Best Buy (wrong - already checked my local BB store and the BB website, BB doesn't carry them). She ends up giving me a $200 credit because I ask her to explain why DTV won't SELL me an AM21 so that I can get 3 networks in HD that DTV is not providing. That will more than cover the cost of ordering one from someone else - but it sure seems moronic to have the AM21 and then refuse to sell it to customers that want it. They could have sold it to me and made a small profit and kept me happy, instead it cost them $200 and I'm still irritated.


I beleive that I would have had to go ahead and cancel over that one. This is crazy, They should have sold you one regardless.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Rence said:


> Nice product if you can get it -- called and ordered 2 HD DVRs to add to the one we already have (which has a built in off the air tuner). We ordered one AM21 to go with one of the new HD DVRs.
> 
> Couple days later 2 HD DVRs arrived, went on-line, said order shipped complete. Called up said that they missed our AM21 - no problem, rep will order me one right up (now remember I am BUYING this, not asking for it for free). Sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area where we have HD locals. Well we only get ABC, FOX and NBC - no CBS, no CW, no PBS - I want an AM21 - Sorry sir, I can't sell it to you.
> 
> Not happy, I call retention - been with them 12 years, never called retention before - Sorry sir, we can't sell you one because you live in an area served by HD locals -- She checks with supervisor -- sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area that is served by HD locals -- You can get one at Best Buy (wrong - already checked my local BB store and the BB website, BB doesn't carry them). She ends up giving me a $200 credit because I ask her to explain why DTV won't SELL me an AM21 so that I can get 3 networks in HD that DTV is not providing. That will more than cover the cost of ordering one from someone else - but it sure seems moronic to have the AM21 and then refuse to sell it to customers that want it. They could have sold it to me and made a small profit and kept me happy, instead it cost them $200 and I'm still irritated.


If I had to guess, that means their stock is running low. They have sold these to subscribers in the past, even in areas with HD locals provided by satellite. If something has changed, it must be low stock, and they naturally feel they have to save the units they have for customers who can not get locals from them by satellite.

Of course, it would have been more appropriate for them to be clear with their employees and customers why the change in policy was made, and how long they expected the low stock condition to require this restriction.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Rence said:


> Sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area where we have HD locals. Well we only get ABC, FOX and NBC - no CBS, no CW, no PBS - I want an AM21 - Sorry sir, I can't sell it to you.


That is the big problem here with what DirecTV supplies for HD locals. They only give us 6 HD/digital locals and with my OTA antenna I can get over 30. When they do add PBS, I know we will only get 1 channel and some of our local PBS stations offer up to 5 channels of programing to choose from. I know those channels do not have following like the main channels do and it would be a waste of bandwidth for DirecTV or any provider to supply all 5 of them, so I feel having OTA capabilities is a must. Also some of our local stations offer news and weather on sub channels, which we like to watch, and again it would be impracticle for DirecTV to supply them.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rence said:


> Nice product if you can get it -- called and ordered 2 HD DVRs to add to the one we already have (which has a built in off the air tuner). We ordered one AM21 to go with one of the new HD DVRs.
> 
> Couple days later 2 HD DVRs arrived, went on-line, said order shipped complete. Called up said that they missed our AM21 - no problem, rep will order me one right up (now remember I am BUYING this, not asking for it for free). Sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area where we have HD locals. Well we only get ABC, FOX and NBC - no CBS, no CW, no PBS - I want an AM21 - Sorry sir, I can't sell it to you.
> 
> Not happy, I call retention - been with them 12 years, never called retention before - Sorry sir, we can't sell you one because you live in an area served by HD locals -- She checks with supervisor -- sorry sir, I can't sell you one because you live in an area that is served by HD locals -- You can get one at Best Buy (wrong - already checked my local BB store and the BB website, BB doesn't carry them). She ends up giving me a $200 credit because I ask her to explain why DTV won't SELL me an AM21 so that I can get 3 networks in HD that DTV is not providing. That will more than cover the cost of ordering one from someone else - but it sure seems moronic to have the AM21 and then refuse to sell it to customers that want it. They could have sold it to me and made a small profit and kept me happy, instead it cost them $200 and I'm still irritated.


You could have just ordered it on directv.com and saved yourself some time and stress.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

I have only one complaint about the AM21, that it requires a DIRECTV receiver to operate. The ultimate incarnation of this product would be if it could work both with and without a DIRECTV STB.

DIRECTV could have made some money on the side with the FCC coupons, and customers would not be limited to DIRECTV subscribers only.

The sad thing was, when I saw the display for the Innovation Awards area I also noticed a booth listing. So it looks like DIRECTV _*PLANNED*_ on attending CES. However, when I went to the booths indicated I found a number of empty conference halls and some confused people in the Kaleidescape display wondering why people were asking about DIRECTV.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

The coupons are only usable on converters which DO NOT have a HD output.

The AM21 still shows up on directv.com, under My Account -> Add kits & equipment. I also receive 5 HD locals via Directv (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, MYN). Still waiting for PBS.


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## Rence (Sep 3, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> You could have just ordered it on directv.com and saved yourself some time and stress.


I tried, it doesn't show up for me anyplace on the website for me to order - apparantly because I have HD locals.


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## thestaton (Aug 14, 2008)

award or not, both of mine work great and I love um.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rence said:


> I tried, it doesn't show up for me anyplace on the website for me to order - apparantly because I have HD locals.


I have HD locals and I see it on the site with the Receivers.

Correction: Not with the receivers, it's with the "Kits & Equipment".


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Rence said:


> I tried, it doesn't show up for me anyplace on the website for me to order - apparantly because I have HD locals.


Same here for my account in L.A. ;

I was looking to order another AM21 for a new HR22-100 I just installed and activated recently, and there is no listing for the AM21's availability on DirecTV's web-site.

So what gives? Is it a low stock issue or is it that since a rather hefty package of HD LiLs are certainly available here (Ch. 2-13 + PBS ch. 28 KCET) I no longer qualify?


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

I have HD locals (Minneapolis area) and it doesn't show for me under "Add Receiver", but it does show up for me under "Add Kits & Equipment" and allows me to add it to my 'shopping cart'.

If you were looking only under "Add Receiver", try looking under "Add Kits & Equipment".


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

JLucPicard said:


> I have HD locals (Minneapolis area) and it doesn't show for me under "Add Receiver", but it does show up for me under "Add Kits & Equipment" and allows me to add it to my 'shopping cart'.
> 
> If you were looking only under "Add Receiver", try looking under "Add Kits & Equipment".


I did, but all that's showing are the Homeplug ethernet adapters...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> The need? Reduce costs...


You're crazy if you think that the AM-21 isn't costing DIRECTV a lot more than they saved. Manufacturing costs are likely higher than what they are charging (which may explain why they refuse to sell them). The longer they procrastinate on PBS, the worse it is going to get.

Please spare me the arguments about "I don't need it" and "I don't want it". They are tired and for many, they are an apologist lie.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

It's not costing more.

How many do they send out for every HR21/22/23 that gets installed? My guess is not very many. Even if the AM21 cost 10 times the amount they're saving from not having OTA available in all receivers, I doubt they're sending out 1 AM21 for every 10 DVR's.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

harsh said:


> You're crazy if you think that the AM-21 isn't costing DIRECTV a lot more than they saved. Manufacturing costs are likely higher than what they are charging (which may explain why they refuse to sell them). The longer they procrastinate on PBS, the worse it is going to get.
> 
> Please spare me the arguments about "I don't need it" and "I don't want it". They are tired and for many, they are an apologist lie.


!rolling !rolling !rolling

I needed a little harsh logic today. Thanks.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> You're crazy if you think that the AM-21 isn't costing DIRECTV a lot more than they saved. Manufacturing costs are likely higher than what they are charging (which may explain why they refuse to sell them). The longer they procrastinate on PBS, the worse it is going to get.
> 
> Please spare me the arguments about "I don't need it" and "I don't want it". They are tired and for many, they are an apologist lie.


I can always count on you to make me laugh.. Thats the most foolish thing I've read so far this year! Thanks!!!!!


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> I can always count on you to make me laugh.. Thats the most foolish thing I've read so far this year! Thanks!!!!!


inkahauts;

Is the AM21 showing as available on your account?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

It's ironic that DirecTV wasn't there in any booth this year, and yet gets cited for this award (which was appropriate).

Despite the hype about the Dish new Sling-enabled 922 DVR...and it also getting an Innovation Award...and the fact that Dish had a booth there....during 30 minutes of viewing at the booth in person, I saw 1 person ask about it onsite there at the CES during that entire time (hundreds of people just mulling by during that same time window).

The AM21 was innovative in the context of a new device filling a market need. That is what this show is all about, so some of the previous posts about unrelated issues are out of context for what the Innovations Award is all about. Considering the endless threads about poster's desire for OTA, and the subsequent tester and user positive posts about how the unit works...it seemed appropriate.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> You're crazy if you think that the AM-21 isn't costing DIRECTV a lot more than they saved. Manufacturing costs are likely higher than what they are charging (which may explain why they refuse to sell them). The longer they procrastinate on PBS, the worse it is going to get.
> 
> Please spare me the arguments about "I don't need it" and "I don't want it". They are tired and for many, they are an apologist lie.


I may be crazy, but not about DirecTV saving money on the AM21. I realize reasoning with you is like clapping with one hand but I'll try anyways. Let's say in the past they made 50,000 HR20's with OTA. Now they're still making 50,000 HR21's, 50,000 HR22's and 50,000 HR23's without OTA. Now they're also making 50,000 AM21's. That's 100,000 less pairs of tuners needed. That to me is cost saving.

Not sure what you mean by the "arguments about I don't need it and I don't want it". You probably shouldn't put words into people's mouths.

Oh, and what in the world does PBS have to do with the costs of making an AM21??


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> You're crazy if you think that the AM-21 isn't costing DIRECTV a lot more than they saved. Manufacturing costs are likely higher than what they are charging (which may explain why they refuse to sell them). The longer they procrastinate on PBS, the worse it is going to get.
> 
> Please spare me the arguments about "I don't need it" and "I don't want it". They are tired and for many, they are an apologist lie.


Seems like you are suggesting that integrating OTA for millions is cheaper than making available OTA for hundreds (or perhaps thousands) .. Sorry not buying that one


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Not sure what you mean by the "arguments about I don't need it and I don't want it". You probably shouldn't put words into people's mouths.


It's hard for some people to believe that there are only a small percentage of people that actually use OTA ..


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## erosroadie (Jan 9, 2007)

Rence said:


> I tried, it doesn't show up for me anyplace on the website for me to order - apparantly because I have HD locals.


This makes no sense. Living in the Western Suburbs of Chicago, I ordered an AM-21 five months ago for my HR21 with no problems. I already receive HD locals from D* (though I receive many more, and subchannels, via OTA) and it was on the website.

Tuners work great, better than the ones in my SAMSUNG DLP, especially considering the ~200 ft. run from the antenna.

If this is a supply/demand issue, it's an odd way to manage the inventory...


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I use it because the PQ is much better than what D* sends out for my locals, D* has to compress them. Plus I can pick up Cleveland Fox 8 which is HD and Youngstown Fox 62 is not.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

erosroadie said:


> This makes no sense. Living in the Western Suburbs of Chicago, I ordered an AM-21 five months ago for my HR21 with no problems.


The scuttlebutt is that if you live in a "served" market, DIRECTV is no longer offering the AM21 to you. It is possible that the policy has changed since you ordered yours.

At the very least, it is apparent that they are available through third parties now where they weren't when you bought in.


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## MRinDenver (Feb 3, 2003)

To be clear, DirecTV won two "Innovation" awards at CES last week: one for the AM21 and one for the HR21Pro. 

Both are excellent units, working great for me. 

On a cosmetic level the HR21Pro is the best looking dvr DirecTv has ever offered.

And the build quality is well above the standard dvr units.

I get HD locals, and DirecTV shipped me an AM21 on 12-26, the day I activated the HR21Pro. No charge, two day FedEx. I got no complaints with their policies, products or services.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> It's hard for some people to believe that there are only a small percentage of people that actually use OTA ..


Doug, I think that is because most people do not even know other stations are available to them and therefore do not even realize what they are missing by not having OTA. In this area by not having OTA you are missing up to 80% of the available HD/digital channels. We have 30 digital channels via OTA and I get 6 with DirecTV. I have had several neighbors at our home and saw things like local weather and news, on sub channels, and wondered why they were not get it. When I explained why I was getting them and they were not, they also wanted an antenna added to their system to receive them, as well.

Then there are others that are just happy with their ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX feeds, and that is all they need. Most of us here know a lot more about TV and what is available and what isn't, but the average "Joe Plumber" has no idea and just takes what is given to them or are happy with their basic analog cable.

Also, I am sure that with DirecTV removing the OTA tuners from the sets, has caused many viewers to not even think about needing a OTA antenna.

Many people don't care about PBS programing but we enjoy watching programing on their sub channels, and the availability of weather and news from the networks sub channels.

I for one was very upset when they removed the OTA tuner from their new receivers, and plan to hang onto at least one of my HR20's as long as I can. But, what upsets me even more is the fact that DirecTV is refusing to sell the AM21 to customers because they have a few of the available locals in HD available to them.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The AM21 was innovative in the context of a new device filling a market need.


No doubt that it filled a market need - but only after DirecTV removed the functionality from their previous DVR's.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> Seems like you are suggesting that integrating OTA for millions is cheaper than making available OTA for hundreds (or perhaps thousands) .. Sorry not buying that one


Me neither.


MRinDenver said:


> To be clear, DirecTV won two "Innovation" awards at CES last week: one for the AM21 and one for the HR21Pro.
> 
> Both are excellent units, working great for me.


Agree, and agree.


Sirshagg said:


> No doubt that it filled a market need - but only after DirecTV removed the functionality from their previous DVR's.


True....but nonetheless a "need". The could easily have simply decided to not support OTA altogether. A couple of certain *other* posters one this site (and you know who you are) could have made a career out of the scuttlebutt over that kind of decision.


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## pfueri (Jan 22, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Despite the fact that DIRECTV's presence is very muted at the CES show, it's worth saying that the AM21 off air tuner for MPEG4 DVRs won an Innovation Award this year.


What is so innovative about a OTA tuner ? They had to come up with a tuner because they took them out of there receiver's .


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

pfueri said:


> What is so innovative about a OTA tuner ? They had to come up with a tuner because they took them out of there receiver's .


Who has an external OTA tuner that's portable between receivers and applies DVR functionality to those channels?

I'd say that's innovative.

Main Entry:
in·no·va·tion 
Pronunciation:
\ˌi-nə-ˈvā-shən\ 
Function:
noun 
Date:
15th century

1 : the introduction of something new 
2 : a new idea, method, or device


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## Juppers (Oct 26, 2006)

Would be nice if it actually worked worth a darn. The AM21 may pick up weaker signals better, but it can't handle near black scenes at all. My HR20-700 is much better at OTA than my HR21-200 with a AM21. I don't see how a downgrade in functionality and usability can be considered innovative.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Juppers said:


> Would be nice if it actually worked worth a darn. The AM21 may pick up weaker signals better, but it can't handle near black scenes at all. My HR20-700 is much better at OTA than my HR21-200 with a AM21. I don't see how a downgrade in functionality and usability can be considered innovative.


Mine works fine on the HR21 and HR23. Same results as my HR20 and TV tuners.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

harsh said:


> The scuttlebutt is that if you live in a "served" market, DIRECTV is no longer offering the AM21 to you. It is possible that the policy has changed since you ordered yours.
> 
> At the very least, it is apparent that they are available through third parties now where they weren't when you bought in.


Preposterous, the only reason you cannot order one through the DIRECTV website is because you do not have any compatible receivers on your account. The AM21 only works on the HR21/22/23 and R22 models. It does *NOT* work on the H21/23 or *ANY* of the D-series units.

Also, I have something that I have been curious about for a long time; according to your profile you have a Dish Network ViP622, not a DIRECTV receiver.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Draconis said:


> Preposterous, the only reason you cannot order one through the DIRECTV website is because you do not have any compatible receivers on your account. The AM21 only works on the HR21/22/23 and R22 models. It does *NOT* work on the H21/23 or *ANY* of the D-series units.


Exactly, I just logged into my account and I can order an AM21 right now from DirecTV if I wanted to and New Orleans has had HD LiL's (the big 4) going on 2 years now.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

harsh said:


> The scuttlebutt is that if you live in a "served" market, DIRECTV is no longer offering the AM21 to you. It is possible that the policy has changed since you ordered yours.
> 
> At the very least, it is apparent that they are available through third parties now where they weren't when you bought in.





Draconis said:


> Preposterous, the only reason you cannot order one through the DIRECTV website is because you do not have any compatible receivers on your account. The AM21 only works on the HR21/22/23 and R22 models. It does *NOT* work on the H21/23 or *ANY* of the D-series units.
> 
> Also, I have something that I have been curious about for a long time; according to your profile you have a Dish Network ViP622, not a DIRECTV receiver.


Seconded. I live in a "served" market... (is Baltimore "served" enough for you with all major locals, including PBS, in HD?). I have 2 AM21s on both compatible receivers on my account. Yet I still see it listed for sale on the DirecTV website under "Add Kits & Equipment" for the standard $50. I can even add it to my cart.

*A Dish Network subscriber spreading misinformation about DirecTV service is unwelcome and getting downright frustrating. "Clean up in aisle harsh" is becoming way too prevalent around here.* :nono2:


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> A Dish Network subscriber spreading misinformation about DirecTV service is unwelcome and getting downright frustrating. "Clean up in aisle harsh" is becoming way too prevalent around here. :nono2:


I find it very ironic to read that, given the tremendous amount of Dish Network misinformation around here.

I think the AM21 winning an award was just a function of how little was on display at CES. Argue all you want, but an ATSC tuner is hardly innovative.

Also, the 922 won a "Best in Show" award in it's category from Cnet. Certainly it is more of an innovation than the AM21.


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## Rence (Sep 3, 2007)

On Saturday on two different calls I was told that i could not order the AM21 because we have HD locals, in both cases they said "the system won't allow me to place the order". In both cases they checked with a supervisor who confirmed that they could not place the order because I was served by HD locals. 

We had the two HR22-100s added to the account and I went to the website and checked Add Kits and Equipment and the AM21 was not available to me. Today I go to Add Kits and Equipment and find that the AM21 is available to me. Not sure what has changed. 

I've already ordered one from a third-party, so I'm not going to try to order it from DTV.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

HDRoberts said:


> ...the 922 won a "Best in Show" award in it's category from Cnet. Certainly it is more of an innovation than the AM21.


I guess that opinion depends on who's sat service you use....

I could have sworn this was a DirecTV area and thread...

I've now seen both in operation in person (the 922 via a full-blown demo at the Dish booth at CES), and both have merits and deserved their respective awards.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tcusta00 said:


> 1 : the introduction of something new


By this definition, a five sided toothpick should be an innovation.


> 2 : a new idea, method, or device


Here's where we run afoul. Converting things to USB isn't all that innovative. If you look carefully, you can find dual tuner USB dongles out there. Adaptec announced the dual tuner AVC-3160 (NTSC and FM radio only) back in November 2004. I feel compelled to note that it didn't win any innovation awards at the 2005 CES. What does the AM21 bring to the party (aside from only being usable with DIRECTV receivers)?

I agree that integrating a dual tuner USB module into the DIRECTV HD receiver software is new and perhaps even innovative but the module itself is not all that special in terms of what it does.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> By this definition, a five sided toothpick should be an innovation.


I hear you get *one of those *with every new Dish VIP 922 DVR ordered...


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

harsh said:


> the module itself is not all that special in terms of what it does.


Then by all means you shouldn't add one to your VIP622. I don't think DirecTV equipment would work with your Dish Network setup anyway. 

Anyhow, the powers that be at CES decided that this was an innovation. You're free to disagree.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I suppose you'd have to have one. 

The innovative aspect in my opinion is the way it is transparently supported in a piece of consumer electronics; no driver install, no big excitement. Plug it in, choose your market and it works.


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## sraider (Aug 6, 2006)

So what's so innovative about the tuner?


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

sraider said:


> So what's so innovative about the tuner?


It allows you to combine your OTA channels with your Satellite channels, and allows you to DVR them for a seamless programing package.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

For those who don't think this is an "innovation" you should read up on the standards for the award:

http://www.cesweb.org/awards/innovations/about.asp



> Judges review and evaluate each GENERAL entry based on summaries of the following criteria:
> 
> * Engineering qualities, based on technical specs and materials used
> * Aesthetic and design qualities, using photos provided
> ...


It is what it is. Again, feel free to disagree but I doubt anyone from the Industrial Designers Society of America (the judges) will be here to confirm or refute any suggested reasons for their decision. Any "contest" like this has a certain amount of subjectivity involved.

Take a look at the innovations that won this award - there's nothing new, for the most part. They're all just products that have been improved upon or revised somehow.


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

dodge boy said:


> It allows you to combine your OTA channels with your Satellite channels, and allows you to DVR them for a seamless programing package.


I've has that for over 2 years with my Dosh 622. heck, DirecTV had that before the AM21 with the HR20.

Again, I think the innovation awards given were more a function of the lack of innovation at CES this year.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

> * Aesthetic and design qualities, using photos provided


As I said, that is the key, it looks very nice and high end in the cabinet


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> It's hard for some people to believe that there are only a small percentage of people that actually use OTA ..


Apparently so. They just don't realize that no matter how many of us are here have and use OTA there are TONS more that don't even know what the connector is for on their HR20's. Those of us that use OTA represent a VERY small percentage of DirecTV's customer base.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> The scuttlebutt is that if you live in a "served" market, DIRECTV is no longer offering the AM21 to you.


That is completely false.

I live in a market where DirecTV supplies locals in HD via the satellite and I can go on directv.com and order as many AM21's as my heart desires.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

loudo said:


> But, what upsets me even more is the fact that DirecTV is refusing to sell the AM21 to customers because they have a few of the available locals in HD available to them.


Once again, you can order them on the website all day long. Just because a CSR or 2 says you can't have one because you get locals from DirecTV doesn't mean it's completely true.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Once again, you can order them on the website all day long. Just because a CSR or 2 says you can't have one because you get locals from DirecTV doesn't mean it's completely true.


They don't show up as an item, that can be ordered, from my account. But as others have stated, it may be because I still have my HR20s.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> I've has that for over 2 years with my Dosh 622. heck, DirecTV had that before the AM21 with the HR20.
> 
> Again, I think the innovation awards given were more a function of the lack of innovation at CES this year.


Bingo!

I have heard a rumor that soon they will introduce a portable device that will plug into the existing HR Series DVRs and allow the user to expand the recording capacity of the DVR. It is tentatively called the EDM-21 (External Disk Module)... BRILLIANT!

Later that year, they also will introduce a new 'circular disk' that will revolutionize the physics of transport!


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

loudo said:


> They don't show up as an item, that can be ordered, from my account. But as others have stated, it may be because I still have my HR20s.


Yeah, that would be it. Once you add an HR22 or 23 you'll see it show up.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, that would be it. Once you add an HR22 or 23 you'll see it show up.


I want to make my HR20s last as long as possible. Don't like the idea of having another piece of equipment, cluttering things up, if I don't have to.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

A large part of the 'innovative' piece of the award may be from not wasting the MILLIONS of tuners in every box that would be unused.

I don't know anyone that is using the local HD channels or sub-channels OTA. They aren't impressed that I can get them (and record them) with $9.00 rabbit ears!

Remember, the average subscriber doesn't want to be bothered with another connection, particularly an outside antenna!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

From my vantage point...it appears good that some certain posters were not on the selection committee, as they did not have their dictionaries nearby.


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