# Officially Price Increase for Feb 1 2010



## dolmar

This is taken from ATT web page so this is official price increase.


Effective February 1, 2010 
Please note the following programming and monthly rate changes for 
AT&T | DISH Network Service: 

America's "Everything" PAK repriced to $99.99* (+$2.01)
America's "Everything" PAK customers without locals availability will be moved to 
America's Top 250 & 4-pay premium packages priced at $97.99; 
the DVR service fee ($6) will no longer be waived for America's "Everything" PAK customers. 

TurboHD Bronze with locals renamed to DISH America and repriced to $29.99 (-$5); 
TurboHD Silver with locals renamed DISH America Silver and repriced to $49.99 (-$5); 
TurboHD Gold with locals renamed DISH America Gold and repriced to $49.99 (-$5). 

Customers with one or more DVR receivers will be billed a single $6/month fee instead of a per receiver fee. Customers who currently subscribe to a "w/DVR" package will no longer see a bundled price point; bill will reflect package price and $6/mo DVR fee as explained above. 

The following packages will all increase by $1 as a result of this change: 
Classic Bronze 100- $39.99, 
Classic Bronze 100 Plus- $44.99, 
Classic Silver 200- $52.99, 
Classic Gold 250- $62.99, 
DishLATINO Plus- $34.99, 
DishLATINO Max w/DVR- $58.99. 

The following packages are also affected by this change: 
DishLatino Classico- $35.99 (+$.02), 
DishLATINO DOS w/DVR- $45.99 (-$2). 

Existing non-DVR package customers with more than one dual tuner receiver not connected to a phone line or broadband connection will pay $5/month for each dual tuner receiver after the first. The following price changes will also apply: DishLATINO DOS- $39.99* (-$3), 
Arabic Music Pak- $9.99 (+$3), 
Filipino Viva Pinov- $14.99 (+$3), 
French RFI- $1.99 (+$.99), 
Greek Value Pack- $34.99 (+$2), 
Greek Antenna Package- $24.99 (+$2), 
Polish TV Silesia Plus RADIO Silesia- $4.99 (-$1), 
Portuguese RTPI- $4.99 (+$.99), 
Taiwan Sky Link- $4.99 (-$1), 
Hindi B4U- $4.99 (+$2), 
Urdu QTV- $9.99 (+$2), 
Greek Elite Pack- $34.99 (+$2), 
Russian Mega Pack- $34.99 (+$2), 
Pak Mega Pack- $44.99 (+$5), 
Tamil Mega Pack- $29.99 (+$5). 

Additional receiver fees will change as follows: 
Solo- $7 (+$2), 
Solo DVR - $10 (+$5), 
HD solo DVR- $10 (+$3), 
Duo- $14 (+$9), 
HD Duo- $14 (+$6), 
DuoDVR- $17 (+$12), 
HD DuoDVR- $17 (+$10). 

Other name changes: 
Classic Bronze renamed America's Top 120; 
Classic Bronze 100 Plus renamed America's Top 120 Plus; 
Classic Silver 200 renamed America's Top 200; 
Classic Gold 250 renamed America's Top 250. 

*Prices do not include locals; $6/mo more with locals
__________________


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## finniganps

I get Classic Bronze 100 for $34.99, Bronze HD for and additional $10, plus locals for $5.99. This appears to be different than what you say are current prices (Classic bronze would increase $5, not $1 wouldn't it)?


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## Dave

Actually AT&T is associated with DirectV, not Dish. So I will take this with a grain of Salt right now. Is this going to be DirectV's new prices ??


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## TulsaOK

The descriptions are Dish.


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## sigma1914

Dave said:


> Actually AT&T is associated with DirectV, not Dish. So I will take this with a grain of Salt right now. Is this going to be DirectV's new prices ??


No, Directv's new pricing was already announced HERE & is different.


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## dolmar

Dave said:


> Actually AT&T is associated with DirectV, not Dish. So I will take this with a grain of Salt right now. Is this going to be DirectV's new prices ??


Yeah but they have old customers like myself who signed up before Feb 1 of 2009 who are still Dish customers and ATT still supports and continues to bundle Dish with ATT landlines for existing customers. That is why if you log into your ATT account and have a Dish you see that notice right away for the last 2 days.

But fell free to take it with a grain of salt and or continue to think Direct TV is renaming all their packages to match Dish Network.


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## dolmar

finniganps said:


> I get Classic Bronze 100 for $34.99, Bronze HD for and additional $10, plus locals for $5.99. This appears to be different than what you say are current prices (Classic bronze would increase $5, not $1 wouldn't it)?


That is a straight cut and paste from ATT web page, and ATT Dish Network prices have always been the same as Dish Network unbundled prices.


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## TulsaOK

Maybe the title of the thread should have read "Officially_[sic]_ Price Increase for Feb 1 2010 *for AT&T customers*".


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## phrelin

Well, it looks like what's been discussed on the other thread, sort of. But really, what in heck is this all about:


> Other name changes:
> Classic Bronze renamed America's Top 120;
> Classic Bronze 100 Plus renamed America's Top 120 Plus;
> Classic Silver 200 renamed America's Top 200;
> Classic Gold 250 renamed America's Top 250.


Could this really be true? Honestly, when they hired Larry (of Larry, Darryl and Darryl) to be head of marketing and public relations, I knew they were in trouble.


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## dolmar

Kent Taylor said:


> Maybe the title of the thread should have read "Officially_[sic]_ Price Increase for Feb 1 2010 *for AT&T customers*".


What to bet money that straight from the Dish Network prices will match 100%? As an ATT/Dish customers I have access to all of Dish Promo, CS is handled by Dish Network directly and not ATT. The prices have always been the same, I even have access to Dishnetwork.com and have access to Club Dish and dish'n it up.

Fell free to continue to think that prices increases coming on Feb 1st posted on ATT web page do not apply to Dish direct customers so you can really be in for a shock when they Dish updates their web page Feb 1st as I am sure Dish will not update their web page before Feb 1st as they wont want to scare off any new customers. The increases coming down are huge considering 622/722 rental fee is increasing by 244% and and Dou receivers fee are increasing by 100%.


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## CABill

dolmar said:


> That is a straight cut and paste from ATT web page, and ATT Dish Network prices have always been the same as Dish Network unbundled prices.


The AT&T prices have not always been the same as DISH and some packages and equipment aren't even available to AT&T subs. Even what people pay for locals and DVR fees directly from DISH isn't a constant for all users, so it would be hard to be the same as a moving target.

I'm NOT an AT&T sub and can only speculate! I'd GUESS that the $39.99 price quoted is what an AT&T sub pays now for Bronze with a $5 DVR fee (could be $5 locals??) and what you posted means the $39.99 is one of the items that will increase by $1 to $40.99 with the $6 DVR fee.

Lots of DISH subs may see $34.99 for Bronze with a separate $5 for locals (but some pay $5.99 for locals). Some may see $39.99 for "Classic Bronze with locals". Others may have Classic Bronze w/DVR for $44.99 which includes both locals and a $5 DVR fee.

It might help if someone with a current AT&T bill posted their line items to know what does get included as far as locals, DVR fee, ...


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## nmetro

It seems as each year goes by, DISH has found a way to make things more and more confusing on pricing. So much so, that even a CPA would have trouble understanding it. I have and MBA, so this is what I think will happen in my situation:

I have a VIP 211 and VIP 622, with what now going to be AT 250 with Gold HD. In addition I have locals, the SportsPak, the Superstations, the programming guide and the production protection plan (or what ever they play to call it).

So, my programming will be:

AT 250 $62.99 
HD Gold $10.00
DVR Fee $ 6.00
2nd Rec $ 7.00 (non DVR)
Sub $85.99

SportPak $ 5.99
Locals $ 5.99
SuperStat $ 5.99
PIP $ 6.00
Guide $ 4.99
Sub $29.96

$29.96 + $85.99 = $117.95
Sales Tax adds $3.42 bringing the total to about $121.37

For me, it looks like a $12 increase overall or nearly a 10% increase.

The price list above does not mention that the product protection goes up a dollar and there will be a $25 (or $35 depending on the source) cancellation fee.


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## CABill

nmetro said:


> So, my programming will be:
> 
> AT 250 $62.99
> HD Gold $10.00
> DVR Fee $ 6.00
> 2nd Rec $ 7.00 (non DVR)
> Sub $85.99
> 
> SportPak $ 5.99
> Locals $ 5.99
> SuperStat $ 5.99
> PIP $ 6.00
> Guide $ 4.99
> Sub $29.96
> 
> $29.96 + $85.99 = $117.95
> Sales Tax adds $3.42 bringing the total to about $121.37
> 
> For me, it looks like a $12 increase overall or nearly a 10% increase.
> 
> The price list above does not mention that the product protection goes up a dollar and there will be a $25 (or $35 depending on the source) cancellation fee.


I think you'll do a LITTLE better. You used the posted price of $62.99 for AT250, but that price includes a $5 charge that you have added back in as $5.99 locals. $62.99 will be the AT250 price WITH LOCALS (which will be required if your DMA is carried on DISH).

I find it easier to do the coming costs as:

If you have at least one receiver that qualifies for a DVR fee (not a 211, 501, 508), add $3 plus another $3 for each DVR. Add $7 for each independent output, and subtract $14 if you have at least one Duo, else subtract $7. That should match dolmar's post, but it makes a difference what's incluced. Remember that the posted prices for packages are preceeded by:


> Customers with one or more DVR receivers will be billed a single $6/month fee instead of a per receiver fee.
> ...
> The following packages will all increase by $1 as a result of this change:


Your added DHPP (PIP is something different entirely ) info makes me wonder if people would be better off to drop it BEFORE the $25 goes into effect.


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## dolmar

Cut and Paste from my Dish portion of my ATT bill for Bill, And I am sure Dish direct customers pay the same thing:



Monthly Charges
Jan 01 - Jan 31 Classic Gold 250 With DVR 67.99
3 Premium Package 31.00
3 MO Premium Discount -31.00
HD & Platinum 10.00
DHA Leased Receiver 7.00
$ 79.99


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## Jim5506

Is that a typeo with TurboHD Silver and TurboHD Gold both being $49.99??

Looks like my bill goes up $2.02.

No mention of we HD Absolute subs, so I guess we stay @ $34.99 with locals, sometimes it pays to be forgotten.


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## CABill

It would be real hard to know that DISH subs pay the same when you don't see all the different screwed up ways they may be charged. A LOT of DISH subs would see the same price you posted
Classic Gold 250 With DVR 67.99
but a LOT if DISH subs will pay more than that if they never got into the "DISH DVR Advantage" billing package. They pay an extra $0.98 for each DVR on the account. Some others pay $5.99 for locals instead of $5.

This doesn't effect the validity of the $ in coming price changes - simply that not everybody will have apples to compare to your posted apples (or know they have bananas or oranges instead). There are actually people that will end up with a price decrease. Far more will see an increase, and for some, a very substantial increase.


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## jorossian

My bill goes up $4 - not bad

Dish Latino Max w/DVR - goes up $1 due to the DVR fee being separate and full price
612 solo DVR - goes up $3 in extra receiver fee from $7 to $10

211k HD solo - no change ($7)
222 HD Duo - Primary receiver so no charge

But, I now can swap out the 222 HD duo primary receiver for an HD Duo DVR with no change in price - It WOULD have cost an extra $6 before for the additional DVR fee. So really this as a potential $2 a month savings overall.... Not bad! =D


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## SayWhat?

> Other name changes:
> Classic Bronze renamed America's Top 120;
> Classic Bronze 100 Plus renamed America's Top 120 Plus;
> Classic Silver 200 renamed America's Top 200;
> Classic Gold 250 renamed America's Top 250.


Actually, those are name un-changes since they're just going back to what they used to be called before that last name change.


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## jorossian

This is how the base prices will break down according to the article....

---------- Regular Packages ------------
DishLATINO Plus____$34.99, w/DVR $40.99
America's Top 120__$39.99, w/DVR $45.99
DishLATINO Dos____$39.99, w/DVR $45.99
America's Top 120+ $44.99, w/DVR $50.99
DishLATINO Max____$52.99, w/DVR $58.99
America's Top 200__$52.99, w/DVR $58.99
America's Top 250__$62.99, w/DVR $68.99
--------- The former TurboHD's----------
DISH America______$29.99, w/DVR $35.99
DISH America Silver $39.99, w/DVR $45.99
DISH America Gold__$49.99, w/DVR $55.99


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## Stewart Vernon

dolmar said:


> This is taken from ATT web page so this is official price increase.


Out of curiosity... just where on AT&T's Web site did you find this information?

I've been trying, and I honestly can't even find mention of Dish Network at all on their pricing plans.

I wanted to take a look for myself, but couldn't.


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## dolmar

Stewart Vernon said:


> Out of curiosity... just where on AT&T's Web site did you find this information?
> 
> I've been trying, and I honestly can't even find mention of Dish Network at all on their pricing plans.
> 
> I wanted to take a look for myself, but couldn't.


You had to sign up with ATT/Dish network prior to Nov 1 2008. ATT used to offer Dish but now only offers Direct TV. If you have dish bundled with ATT service and log into your ATT account you will be taken to page that shows you the new price increases for Dish as Feb 1 2010.

As an ATT/Dish Network customers I get $10 credit on my bill each month, $5 for voice service and $5 for having TV service too. It is called a bundling discount. They offer the same discount now for Direct Tv/Phone bundle but funny enough they don't offer a bundle discount for U-Verse.


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## phrelin

SayWhat? said:


> Actually, those are name un-changes since they're just going back to what they used to be called before that last name change.


Yeah. Talk about marketing confusion.


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## joshjr

nmetro said:


> It seems as each year goes by, DISH has found a way to make things more and more confusing on pricing. So much so, that even a CPA would have trouble understanding it. I have and MBA, so this is what I think will happen in my situation:
> 
> I have a VIP 211 and VIP 622, with what now going to be AT 250 with Gold HD. In addition I have locals, the SportsPak, the Superstations, the programming guide and the production protection plan (or what ever they play to call it).
> 
> So, my programming will be:
> 
> AT 250 $62.99
> HD Gold $10.00
> DVR Fee $ 6.00
> 2nd Rec $ 7.00 (non DVR)
> Sub $85.99
> 
> SportPak $ 5.99
> Locals $ 5.99
> SuperStat $ 5.99
> PIP $ 6.00
> Guide $ 4.99
> Sub $29.96
> 
> $29.96 + $85.99 = $117.95
> Sales Tax adds $3.42 bringing the total to about $121.37
> 
> For me, it looks like a $12 increase overall or nearly a 10% increase.
> 
> The price list above does not mention that the product protection goes up a dollar and there will be a $25 (or $35 depending on the source) cancellation fee.


Im not a Dish sub but cant you get that 2nd reciever fee waived if you have it hooked to a phone line?


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## phrelin

joshjr said:


> Im not a Dish sub but cant you get that 2nd reciever fee waived if you have it hooked to a phone line?


There's been some discussion about whether that disappears with the new rate structure. We still really won't know until we get our bills for February.:sure:

But I'm sure if it is gone, Dish will have thought long and hard about how many folks have struggled to get a phone line to the d*mned box to save $5 a month and have figured just how significant the aggravation factor will be. If they haven't, they won't have enough CSR's to handle other incoming email and phone yelling.:eek2:


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## CABill

joshjr said:


> Im not a Dish sub but cant you get that 2nd reciever fee waived if you have it hooked to a phone line?


The listed 
2nd Rec $ 7.00 (non DVR)
isn't related to a phone line / Internet connection. The 1st receiver doesn't have additional fees (except DVR) but all receivers after the 1st have a fee of $5/$7 now and new fees after 1Feb. His 211 WILL have a $7 fee then but it has nothing to do with a phone line.


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## joshjr

CABill said:


> The listed
> 2nd Rec $ 7.00 (non DVR)
> isn't related to a phone line / Internet connection. The 1st receiver doesn't have additional fees (except DVR) but all receivers after the 1st have a fee of $5/$7 now and new fees after 1Feb. His 211 WILL have a $7 fee then but it has nothing to do with a phone line.


Thats exactly what Im talking about. In the past I know I have read on here if you have the 2nd reciever hooked to a phone line the fee is waived. Maybe thats going away but thats what I am asking about.


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## Stewart Vernon

dolmar said:


> You had to sign up with ATT/Dish network prior to Nov 1 2008. ATT used to offer Dish but now only offers Direct TV. If you have dish bundled with ATT service and log into your ATT account you will be taken to page that shows you the new price increases for Dish as Feb 1 2010.


That makes me curious... Since AT&T went with DirecTV last Feb and cut ties with Dish (except for existing bundled customers)... I suspect AT&T would really like to get all existing people off Dish. I'm sure they'd prefer you switch to U-verse (where available)... but they'd probably like you to switch to DirecTV.

I wonder IF these price increases could purely be tied to the AT&T deal... such that Dish customers who are not bundled with AT&T might not be effected by the price changes.


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## CABill

joshjr said:


> Thats exactly what Im talking about. In the past I know I have read on here if you have the 2nd reciever hooked to a phone line the fee is waived. Maybe thats going away but thats what I am asking about.


Nope, it is not the "2nd receiver" on an account that is waived with a phone line connection. What gets waived with a phone line is a charge on a dual output receiver (Duo) when it is connected to a phone line or to the Internet. The "TV2 output" of a Duo gets a $5/month charge at the moment when no connection exists. There is an exception for that on the primary (1st Duo on the account isn't charged the $5). The poster has two receivers and EVERYBODY pays some charge for their 2nd (and 3rd, ...) receiver that is active on an account. The fee for those additional receivers will be going up for DISH subs to the amount dolmer posted for additional receivers (between $7 and $17 each, depending on the receiver). What gets tricky is knowing what to remove from someone's existing bill as being included in the new fee setup.

Exactly what will happen with that "TV2 fee" isn't crystal clear, but it would appear to be advantageous to have all your Duos connected when the price change goes into effect. It could make no $ difference, get you a $5 credit for a short period, or maybe avoid a $5 fee for having multiple Duos with none of them connected. In general, the "TV2 fee" will be going away as a line item on the bill in Feb, and each independent output of each receiver will be charged $7 (no charge for the outputs on the "first / primary / most expensive" receiver on an account).


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## joshjr

Stewart Vernon said:


> That makes me curious... Since AT&T went with DirecTV last Feb and cut ties with Dish (except for existing bundled customers)... I suspect AT&T would really like to get all existing people off Dish. I'm sure they'd prefer you switch to U-verse (where available)... but they'd probably like you to switch to DirecTV.
> 
> I wonder IF these price increases could purely be tied to the AT&T deal... such that Dish customers who are not bundled with AT&T might not be effected by the price changes.


That would be a dirty way of doing it now wouldnt it. If its anything like D* they would not let them come directly to E* either unless you gave up a grandfathered package lol. Time will tell.


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## dolmar

Stewart Vernon said:


> That makes me curious... Since AT&T went with DirecTV last Feb and cut ties with Dish (except for existing bundled customers)... I suspect AT&T would really like to get all existing people off Dish. I'm sure they'd prefer you switch to U-verse (where available)... but they'd probably like you to switch to DirecTV.
> 
> I wonder IF these price increases could purely be tied to the AT&T deal... such that Dish customers who are not bundled with AT&T might not be effected by the price changes.


I dont think ATT would do that, First of all most of the ATT customers are either off contract or soon to be off contract, and Dish does the billing not ATT for those customers and ATT just collect the money for them like they do when you call a 900 number. Like I said when I call up for Customers support I call Dish network customers service and get the same people in india or where ever they are located who barely speak english. I was able to call in when Dish starting giving away free HD platinum and get that just like normal Dish customers, I was able to call in and HBO and Show free for 3 months promo last month too just like all Dish customers too. This year in March Dish network swapped out ATT boxes for Dish boxes without extending anyone contract, I got 722 and 222 for free.

Like I said those increases are the official increases for Feb 1, 2010 the difference between ATT and Dish is that ATT is regulated in many states and is required to give 30 day notice before increasing your bill and I have a felling that is why ATT released those increases on Jan 1st.

1 other thing any ATT customer who has Dish Network or Direct TV bundled by ATT can break their contract at any time to switch to U-Verse TV and ATT pays ETF on top of any new customer sign up bonuses. You pay the ETF to Dish/Direct TV and then 30 days after you have had U-Verse ATT credits the ETF back to your ATT account. This was one of the reason I signed up via ATT over Dish Network directly in the beginning as I knew I could get out of my Dish Contract at any time if I really wanted too as long as I was willing to switch to U-Verse.


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## fryguy503

I can confirm 100% the OP's post is accurate. The changes all look to be correct based on his infromation.


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## Jim5506

in*from*ation??


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## dragon342

CABill said:


> The listed
> 2nd Rec $ 7.00 (non DVR)
> isn't related to a phone line / Internet connection. The 1st receiver doesn't have additional fees (except DVR) but all receivers after the 1st have a fee of $5/$7 now and new fees after 1Feb. His 211 WILL have a $7 fee then but it has nothing to do with a phone line.


and DVR service fee will be an account level fee meaning,it doesnt matter how many dvr rcvr's u have, it wud be charged only once to the account


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## CABill

dragon342 said:


> and DVR service fee will be an account level fee meaning,it doesnt matter how many dvr rcvr's u have, it wud be charged only once to the account


You must have swallowed the kool aid they are passing out! There won't be line items on the bill for the additional DVRs, but each and every DVR on the account will pay an additional $3. That $3 may get buried in the new simplified / unified fee structure, but saying it doesn't matter how many DVRs you have isn't true. It is how the fee structure is spun and how the bill will appear, but you will be paying $3 for EVERY DVR (not a 211 w/ drive, 501, ...) on the account, plus an extra $3 for the first DVR on the account.

If you have a 510 as well as a 622, it will cost you $3/month more than if that 510 is replaced with a 508 that doesn't get charged a DVR fee. So it DOES matter how many DVRs you have on the account. But it sounds a lot better to say that it doesn't matter - doesn't make it true though.


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## dolmar

The best part of the increase is I am sure many people including myself got 222 over 211 for pip and 722 over 612 because it had larger HD and under the current pricing all 4 receivers had the same monthly lease price.

If I would have known that for me to get pip it was going to cost me $7 extra a month I would never have gotten the 222 over 211. I am sure other people with 2-3 receivers did the same thing I did. They got an upgraded box based on the fact it cost the same thing.

Best part about this rate increase is if you call up Dish like I did to complain their solution is absorb in my opinion even tho I kinda of understand their point of view. I called up and asked Dish to swap out my 222 for a 211 so I could not be forced to pay $7 a month for pip and Dish manager told me, That would be no problem but I would be required to pay $100 "lease fee" and agree to a new 2 year contract. I said sure I don't mind agreeing to a new 2 year contract and pay $100 to swap receivers if you will put it in the writing that next year you wont raise the price of 211 by 100% again. She pretty much laughed at me and said we can raise the prices any time we want etc, I said I know that but I refuse to extend my contract 2 year more when you guys think increasing of 10-20% a year are normal. I have 5 months left on my current contract at which time I plan on canceling service and going to either TWC or U-Verse who do not require contract so if they raise the price I can always just switch providers without paying an ETF. The stupid CSR told me both TWC and U-Verse do not really have HD but up-convert all their SD channels to HD so she not worried as I will be back to Dish anyways as Dish is still cheaper than Direct TV who is only other provider who has true HD channels like Dish. That gave me such a good laugh and this was a manager in CS.


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## phrelin

Yeah. Well, I still think am going to have to wait for my March bill. Here's my latest bill detail:








Based on what I read here I come up with the following *if* my 722 lease is included in the package price quoted above (or does that price not include the first DVR lease fee for a 722, and if not what will that be?) and my 612 is still considered a solo HD DVR:


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## russ9

dolmar said:


> Other name changes:
> Classic Bronze renamed America's Top 120;
> Classic Bronze 100 Plus renamed America's Top 120 Plus;
> Classic Silver 200 renamed America's Top 200;
> Classic Gold 250 renamed America's Top 250.





SayWhat? said:


> Actually, those are name un-changes since they're just going back to what they used to be called before that last name change.


Perhaps people were associating Gold with the the metal price rather than the medal..


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## coldsteel

dolmar said:


> I have 5 months left on my current contract at which time I plan on canceling service and going to either TWC or U-Verse who do not require contract so if they raise the price I can always just switch providers without paying an ETF.


:lol: Good luck with that. UVerse and cable do require commitments.


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## dolmar

coldsteel said:


> :lol: Good luck with that. UVerse and cable do require commitments.


What planet do you live on? U-Verse has no contract and never has had a contract. TWC also requires no contract, Fios requires 1 year contract.

Goto to ATT web page and then compare ATT Direct to U-Verse and one of the advantage of U-Verse listed in the compare is Free install and no contract require in addition to up to $400 in gift cards for trying the service.


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## Paul Secic

CABill said:


> It would be real hard to know that DISH subs pay the same when you don't see all the different screwed up ways they may be charged. A LOT of DISH subs would see the same price you posted
> Classic Gold 250 With DVR 67.99
> but a LOT if DISH subs will pay more than that if they never got into the "DISH DVR Advantage" billing package. They pay an extra $0.98 for each DVR on the account. Some others pay $5.99 for locals instead of $5.
> 
> This doesn't effect the validity of the $ in coming price changes - simply that not everybody will have apples to compare to your posted apples (or know they have bananas or oranges instead). There are actually people that will end up with a price decrease. Far more will see an increase, and for some, a very substantial increase.


Boy I'm confused. I've got AEP but Ican't stand Showtime. Should I go to AT 250 and sub to HBO & STARZ?


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## CABill

Paul Secic said:


> Boy I'm confused. I've got AEP but Ican't stand Showtime. Should I go to AT 250 and sub to HBO & STARZ?


I don't think anybody should change anything just yet, before there is exact info released and UNDERSTOOD! Someone with AEP to avoid DVR fees on many receivers may eventually want to drop a premium or two. Someone with a single 722 and AEP that doesn't watch one or more of the premiums would probably be better off financially to drop to the premiums they do watch. As long as there is some $ benefit to staying with AEP, you'd be better off to wait until DISH generates a bill for you using new pricing. For ME, a bill is generated on 23Jan, can be viewed online the next day, and will cover 10Feb-9Mar. That bill will still be the current prices. The 1st bill generated AFTER 1Feb will happen on 23Feb for 10Mar-9Apr. There is plenty of time to decide what is best for everybody - but they will have different billing periods than mine.

The charge to drop DHPP might be the only thing someone might want to act on before 1Feb. I would EXPECT that any charge to drop DHPP wouldn't hit people that have been paying it for N months already. Add and drop certainly has been abused (but CSRs often suggest it!), but it would be crappy to have some $25 drop charge when they are increasing the price. Again, not what I would expect but you never know until it is official. Thread title notwithstanding, this really isn't official yet. But the OP's numbers will likely stand for most regular DISH users (excluding the Turbo typo on AT&T's part).


----------



## peano

phrelin said:


> Based on what I read here I come up with the following .....


I think you have it exactly right.


----------



## phrelin

I find it difficult to imagine that Dish Network could make things more complicated for people at this point, but it appears they are going to. I'll just wait until my March 1 bill is about to come out and by then will have seen here what the CSR's are going to do with the screwups and the angry customers.

Is it just me, or shouldn't the basics be simple to understand for most customers, something like this:


>


----------



## joshjr

phrelin said:


> I find it difficult to imagine that Dish Network could make things more complicated for people at this point, but it appears they are going to. I'll just wait until my March 1 bill is about to come out and by then will have seen here what the CSR's are going to do with the screwups and the angry customers.
> 
> Is it just me, or shouldn't the basics be simple to understand for most customers, something like this:


$17 a month for a Duo HD DVR is not anything I am interested in. Thats nuts.


----------



## phrelin

joshjr said:


> $17 a month for a Duo HD DVR is not anything I am interested in. Thats nuts.


Yes, it's nuts. I'm not sure that's correct. That's what it says in the OP.

If somehow or another that ends up being applied to my "first DVR" that was part of my package - actually my fourth 722 because two didn't work and one I sent to Echostar Engineering because their locals system in the Bay Area didn't and still doesn't work right - I will have a discussion probably with the Administrative Office.

The 722 and the 722k can be bought new from $350 or less. At $17 a month, we're looking at two years for cost recovery. If that's true, then mine should be free.:sure:


----------



## daveslk

dish changes package names more than they change their underwear. they love to make the bill as confusing as possible.


----------



## clyde sauls

Classic Silver is already 52.99 for direct dish customers. That is what I pay now. So maybe since they no longer bundle with ATT they will be charging you the same price as direct dish customers.


----------



## peano

phrelin said:


> If somehow or another that ends up being applied to my "first DVR" that was part of my package ........


The most advanced receiver will automatically become the primary on the account and free of the receiver fee as I understand it.


----------



## Jim5506

peano said:


> The most advanced receiver will automatically become the primary on the account and free of the receiver fee as I understand it.


Technically, it is not free, it is just included in the programming package price, technically.


----------



## space86

Is AEP going up 3 dollars because they are adding Epix 
Viacom's new premium channel?


----------



## Chris Freeland

space86 said:


> Is AEP going up 3 dollars because they are adding Epix
> Viacom's new premium channel?


No, actually if you get AEP with locals but no dvr or extra receivers, your bill will go down $2.99. Weather or not Epix is added in the near future makes no difference here.


----------



## CABill

space86 said:


> Is AEP going up 3 dollars because they are adding Epix Viacom's new premium channel?


How much more you will be paying for your AEP subscription depends entirely on what receiver(s) you use. The 1st receiver won't add any fees to the monthly cost, unless it is a DVR and then you will add $6 for the DVR fee (currently waived with AEP, but won't be in Feb). So if you have 1 211 receiver with AEP, your cost will go down from the AEP package decrease. If you have 1 612 on the account, it goes up $3 for the DVR fee. How much you bill changes with multiple receivers depends on if you presently pay $5 or $7 for them ($5 Solo SD receivers will be $7 each). Every (additional, after the 1st) Duo receiver will add $7 to the total, and every (additional, after the 1st) DVR will add another $3 to the total. If you have receivers that aren't connected to the phone line / Internet, that could add $5 more.

AEP users don't appear to fare well with the pending changes, but as mentioned, the $ change doesn't have anything to do with Epix. But wait for something to be announced officially!


----------



## fwampler

jorossian said:


> My bill goes up $4 - not bad
> 
> Dish Latino Max w/DVR - goes up $1 due to the DVR fee being separate and full price
> 612 solo DVR - goes up $3 in extra receiver fee from $7 to $10
> 
> 211k HD solo - no change ($7)
> 222 HD Duo - Primary receiver so no charge
> 
> But, I now can swap out the 222 HD duo primary receiver for an HD Duo DVR with no change in price - It WOULD have cost an extra $6 before for the additional DVR fee. So really this as a potential $2 a month savings overall.... Not bad! =D


Is that $48 a year? Not good either.


----------



## HDlover

phrelin said:


> Yes, it's nuts. I'm not sure that's correct. That's what it says in the OP.
> 
> If somehow or another that ends up being applied to my "first DVR" that was part of my package - actually my fourth 722 because two didn't work and one I sent to Echostar Engineering because their locals system in the Bay Area didn't and still doesn't work right - I will have a discussion probably with the Administrative Office.
> 
> The 722 and the 722k can be bought new from $350 or less. At $17 a month, we're looking at two years for cost recovery. If that's true, then mine should be free.:sure:


You have to pay the fee whether you own it or lease.


----------



## MadScientist

I have been with Dish Network since the early 90’s. I have the one 622 VIP and have the AEP with locals. If what I am reading here, and my bill increases $6.00 a month or $66.00 a year for the use of the 622 I will no longer be with Dish Network; so much for being a loyal customer for these pass 16+ years. I wonder what they will say when I call to cancel. I have emailed them and get no reply!


----------



## TulsaOK

16+ years huh? That's a long time.


----------



## Lt Disher

MadScientist said:


> I have been with Dish Network since the early 90's. I have the one 622 VIP and have the AEP with locals. If what I am reading here, and my bill increases $6.00 a month or $66.00 a year for the use of the 622 I will no longer be with Dish Network; so much for being a loyal customer for these pass 16+ years. I wonder what they will say when I call to cancel. I have emailed them and get no reply!


I think your bill will increase by only $3.01 per month. The cost of the Americas Everything Pack will actually be dropping by $2.99 (from 102.98 to 99.99). They will charge you the additional $6 DVR fee though, so you should net out to an increase of $3.01.


----------



## peano

From what I am reading, it looks like the TV2 connection fee will be charged _in addition_ to the huge receiver fee increases if you don't have your receivers hooked up.


----------



## Chris Freeland

peano said:


> From what I am reading, it looks like the TV2 connection fee will be charged _in addition_ to the huge receiver fee increases if you don't have your receivers hooked up.


According to Scott's sources, the $5 extra outlet fee is being eliminated, it will be part of the receiver fee. The $17 for extra Duo DVR's breaks down to $7 x 2 outputs for a total of $14 for outputs + an extra $3 for the dvr for the $17 grand total. The standard Duo receivers have a grand total of $14. The 612 dvr has 2 tuners but only one output, so it breaks down to $7 single output fee + $3 because it is a dvr, for any programing package other then AEP, this receiver will actually go down $2 - $2.99 depending if you had locals or not. Just plain single tuner single output extra receivers will still be $7. Seams simple to me and makes logical since, however I do understand the anger of those people who have several 722's and or 622's and especially those with AEP and had their receivers connected to the internet or a phone line, these people are getting screwed big time because of E's greed. If E* goes through with these new prices, I only hope that current subs get some kind of break to ease the pain.

I do not know why those with the AT&T bundles got those confusing letters, but I suspect that the $5 extra outlet fee might be a mistake or I would not be surprised if AT&T is adding this on themselves. The new increased programing package pricing is simply AT&T eliminating those $5 bundling discounts and AT&T E* subs will now be paying full price. I am sure AT&T is doing this to encourage those with E* to switch to D* or U-Verse where available. Personally I trust Scott and his contacts more then those confusing AT&T letters.


----------



## peano

Latest info (rumor):

"_TV2 connection fee-

Account level fee-
If the customer does not have any of their receivers connected they will be charged 1 account level connection fee after 2/1.

No account level fee-
If the customer has at least one receiver connected they will not be charged an additional TV2 connection fee after 2/1.

At least one credit- 
if customer has more than one receiver connected or all of their receivers connected they will receive at least 1 TV2 connection fee credit for a period of 6 months and not charged a TV2 connection fee.

Also more information...

Customers with higher rates than normal for the first 6 months will receive the following credits off of their bill for 6 months. . If the bill increases by the following amounts the customer will receive the following credits off the bill-

$0- $6.99 =$0 credit
$7.00-$8.99=$2.00 credit
$9.00-$10.99=$4.00 credit
$11.00-$14.99=$6.00 credit
$15.00 or more=$6.00 credit.

New cancelation fee $420.00 or $17.50 per month remaining.

DHPP will now be called Service plan.
Anyone who adds the service plan to their account after 2/1 will be charged a $25.00 fee if they cancel the service plan. Service calls will be called Technician visits. They will now cost $95.00 if you do not have the service plan. With the service plan you will be charged $15.00 per visit. If you do a DIU and you do not have the service plan you will be charged $95.00 for the tech to do the install. If you have the service plan it will cost $15.00._"


----------



## CABill

peano said:


> From what I am reading, it looks like the TV2 connection fee will be charged _in addition_ to the huge receiver fee increases if you don't have your receivers hooked up.


There were several posts related toTV2 fee & credit prior to the rumor you quoted that didn't say "receiver" but only talked about
(# Duos on account - # Duos not connected - 1)
If that is -1 (not a single Duo connected), you are charged the fee
If it is zero (like 1st Duo doesn't have to be connected, but the others are), no fee charged.
If positive, 6 month credits.

I've no idea if that was simplifying it to a formula, or something DISH would distribute to explain "simplification". 

In any event, it seemed (my interpretation at least) that it wouldn't add a fee for every Duo not connected, but rather a single fee for not having at least "all but one" connected. I've no idea what the use of "receivers connected" might mean for non-Duos but ASSUME the quote only applies to Duos.


----------



## phrelin

Oh brother. Only Dish could come up with such a goofy mess. Because this month I upgraded from Silver to Gold and was promised the credits for the HBO-Showtime 3 free months, I can't wait to try to decipher my next couple of bills.


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## Stewart Vernon

Since these rumored price increases seem to change by the hour... I really would encourage not getting worked up unless and until Dish actually announces something official.

Until I see a higher Dish bill or changes announced, a lot of people could be getting mad over something that doesn't materialize.

I also am amused at "reliable sources" who contradict each other and change every other day. In my book, a "reliable" source would say the same thing more than once at least.


----------



## Grandude

*My bill just went up*. I had my owned 622 deactivated a while back and decided to reactivate it some time in December. Now I know there is prorating going on so the bill looks like a real mess but for some strange reason they added two $5.00 charges for 'TV2 Receiver Connection'.

The only thing I can think of is that when I was moving the 622 onto the shelf above the TV I knocked the plug out on the network/broadband switch. I fixed this a couple of days later but now am wondering if you have the receivers set up for broadband and it is down for any reason, perhaps this messes up the software and it fails to try the standard phone line out when it wants to call home.

I'm po'ed to say the least as now I have to waste my time on the phone trying to convince someone that they should not charge me that extra $10.


----------



## phrelin

Grandude said:


> The only thing I can think of is that when I was moving the 622 onto the shelf above the TV I knocked the plug out on the network/broadband switch. I fixed this a couple of days later but now am wondering if you have the receivers set up for broadband and it is down for any reason, perhaps this messes up the software and it fails to try the standard phone line out when it wants to call home.


In the past, I've had my network down for over a day and not been charged. I've even gotten the "you aren't connected to God" warning message. It shouldn't be a problem for a short duration.


----------



## coldsteel

The charge shouldn't hit till the bill generates.


----------



## Grandude

phrelin said:


> In the past, I've had my network down for over a day and not been charged. I've even gotten the "you aren't connected to God" warning message. It shouldn't be a problem for a short duration.


My thinking is that they ran a check when I reactivated the owned 622. If that isn't the case, then maybe they thought they could slip by a couple of extra charges on my messed up bill.

I really do wonder if the phone line gets preempted once you connect via broadband and the internet. I recall that some people reported some problems with connecting via phone when they also had the broadband but I sure has heck can't remember the details. (must be the mad cow disease):sure:

Maybe someone with both connections can disconnect the broadband for a while to see what happens.

BTW, I've been very scrupulous about having the phone connection active on all receiver after having a phone call from the evil lady who said I had to give her all those numbers from all receiver 'or else'.


----------



## Link

I'm so tired of Dish Network finding new ways to get money out of their customers. Their annual $3 price increases are bad enough but then they started charging fees for every DVR and tuner that is too much. 

Dish should consider one reason consumers choose Dish Network over Directv is for the dual receivers that save money each month rather than having to pay for a seperate receiver for each room.

At this rate I think I might go back to basic cable for $25 a month and then I can have it in as many rooms as I want and can use a DVD recorder to record shows. These prices are getting out of control.


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## scooper

Just wait until your cable company eliminates analog cable and all TVs will either have a builtin QAM digital tuner OR you need a digital cable tuner.


----------



## TennHokies

OK I'm confused as to what my new bill will look like and a large part of it has to do with no mention of my programming – HD Absolute with locals.
Today I have one 622 receiver (a gem by the way; it’s been flawless since March 06’) and the following programming fees:
$34.99 dishHD Absolute w/locals
$ 5.98 DVR Service fee
$ 7.00 Leased Receiver fee
$47.97 Total

Am I out of my mind to be thinking my bill could be going down $6.98 per month???


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## CABill

TennHokies said:


> Am I out of my mind to be thinking my bill could be going down $6.98 per month???


Pretty hard to say what will happen when Absolute isn't mentioned in the rumor, and nothing has been said by DISH yet.

What is official, since 1-Feb-09 (maybe even 2008??), is that there shouldn't be a Leased receiver fee when you only have one receiver on your account (the way I read your post). People that got their receiver via an existing customer upgrade (DISH'n It Up) were charged the $6 leased fee even on the 1st (or only) receiver for a couple years. That increased to $7 on a previous 1-Feb change. It would certainly we worth your time to phone a CSR and ask about it. You said the 622 works well so you might not want to mess with things, BUT, you could do a DISH'n It Up upgrade from the 622 to a 722/722k/612 and that alone would eliminate the $7 leased receiver fee. You have a decent chance that could happen automatically with the change that is coming (and you don't have that long to wait).

You should be able to reduce your bill by $7 - and that could have happened a year ago.

EDIT - forgot to mention that a DIU to get a new receiver to avoid the Leased Rec fee would come with a new 2 year commit.


----------



## Taco Lover

There's no mentions of Family Pack increases either, right?

Currently I have the FP, 1 722, locals and DVR fee for a total of $31.96/month.

Is that HD Duo Receiver really gonna jack it up another $17/month?


----------



## TennHokies

Taco, the way I read the OP is that the first, and/or most advanced, receiver does not carry an extra charge. However, I'm far from an expert on the topic.

CABill, funny you should say that about the extra $7 fee. Back in 06', thanks to reading it on this forum, I was made aware that sometimes, although back then not always, the $7 lease fee was waived on the first receiver. I was determined to get the same deal if others had gotten it since I was an informed consumer. I successfully argued my way out of the fee with a 3rd tier manager upon initial set up. Over the next 3 years, the billing department and I waged a war over the $7 fee. It would pop up on my bill, and due to paperless billing I often wouldn’t find it till months after. Whenever I did see it I would call, yell my way up to a 3rd tier manager, and not only get it removed but get credited for however many months it was “incorrectly” billed. Yes, I’m that anal about it and the principle drove me crazy. Finally, in 2009 I actaully gave up and let the $7 fee win out over me – since I figured after they kept putting it back on like 5 or 6 times it must be right.

Now, thanks to your post I’m going to be on the phone today with tier 3 management asking for it to be removed again and an $84 credit ASAP. I’ll let you know how it goes!
No matter how it turns out, I appreciate you mentioned it.


----------



## CoolGui

TennHokies

I did the same. I'm not sure who, it could have been CABill for all I know, but someone pointed out to me if I did the receiver upgrade and the 24month commitment the leased receiver fee would be waived. That was at least a year ago, I got a ViP722 and haven't paid the fee since.


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## b177b80

Phone line discount is definitely gone but you still get 2nd tv free in any package. new pricing is right. they give you all the good then at same time get the bad. still i cant count how many deals ive lost because of 5th and 6th tv hookup fee. glad itll b free now.


----------



## peano

The grossly inflated receiver fees were confirmed by Dish Network in the retailer chat today.

Time to bend over.


----------



## Dave

As I have stated in the past. They have to make up the hundreds of millions they have to pay TIVO. Yes the money has been setting in a account collecting interest. But now it is gettting time to actually pay the money to TIVO. This is the end result. Either that or they are trying to match the cable companies fees for receivers.:nono2::nono2::nono2:


----------



## sat tech

i've seen what the additional receiver are I would'nt recomend a six room setup. I had one of my sales reps watch the retailer chat. he checked a quote for a customer he was working on what a 722, 222, 222 was going to cost. just the fees on the 2-222's is going to be 28 dollars more. I'm sure we wont be doing this set up. I thought Directv was shooting themselfs in the foot with there little rate hike. Thank god we are a duo plattform dealer.


----------



## CABill

sat tech said:


> i've seen what the additional receiver are I would'nt recomend a six room setup. I had one of my sales reps watch the retailer chat. he checked a quote for a customer he was working on what a 722, 222, 222 was going to cost. just the fees on the 2-222's is going to be 28 dollars more. I'm sure we wont be doing this set up.


Two 222s will have two $14 receiver fees, but they won't be $28 MORE. Unless you have some trick to not be paying anything for them today. Instead of one $7 fee for a 222, each independent output has a $7 fee so the pair of 222s would go up $14 from today's prices (assumes connected to a phone line or Internet). Rather than doing 222s, it would cost the same to do 4 211s as additional receivers to give independent HD to 5 rooms plus SD from the 722. Then connect an external drive to the 2 211s.

Really had to stretch to come up with anything rosy, but it you should only have a $14 difference with 2 additional 222s and it would be the same monthly if all 4 of those rooms were independend DVRs by adding external drives to 4 211s.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

If these rates roll out as described... then it technically is more accurately described as a moderate increase + elimination of an existing credit.

Consider...

A receiver that today costs $7 per month lease fee + $5 additional tuner fee... costs $14 per month as a unified fee.

That's just a $2 increase, which is kinda like what Dish usually does on their yearly package prices... so I'd say this is a virtual "wash" compared to normally expected increases.

HOWEVER... if they truly are going to can that $5 credit for connecting a phone/internet line... then that's the real per-receiver killer... and that's where it will really add up fast.

Of course even the $2 price-raise adds up on multiple receivers.

Consider... the first receiver is still free... so if you have a 1-receiver account, you will not see the typical increase like you normally would.

IF you have 2 receivers, then you'll see a $7 increase beyond what you'd have paid this time last year assuming you had been connected to internet/phone. IF you were paying that additional tuner fee then your bill only goes up $2.

Still some wiggle room for multiple room accounts if enough people complain when their bills go up.


----------



## phrelin

If you go to the Dish web site now and pretend to be a new customer ordering, after deducting the promo credits, it seems you might be able to see what your bill is going to be. Mine would be a $3 increase and, it appears that the bill would be the same (see earlier post) except for the $3 DVR Package Credit.

Of course, I've initiated the free HBO/Showtime 3 free months and upgraded from Silver to Gold, so my bill will be undecipherable next month particularly with the package name changes.


----------



## sat tech

CABill said:


> Two 222s will have two $14 receiver fees, but they won't be $28 MORE. Unless you have some trick to not be paying anything for them today. Instead of one $7 fee for a 222, each independent output has a $7 fee so the pair of 222s would go up $14 from today's prices (assumes connected to a phone line or Internet). Rather than doing 222s, it would cost the same to do 4 211s as additional receivers to give independent HD to 5 rooms plus SD from the 722. Then connect an external drive to the 2 211s.
> 
> Really had to stretch to come up with anything rosy, but it you should only have a $14 difference with 2 additional 222s and it would be the same monthly if all 4 of those rooms were independend DVRs by adding external drives to 4 211s.


the total for the two 222's is 28.00. and yes it is only 14 dollars more that it used to be. no phone or internet will reduce that price anymore. but the 14 is what will put this over on the quote. so being a smart ### is not the subject here. its trying to compete with other providors.....and yes they are dropping the phone/internet credit


----------



## Conway

Any Idea what my bill will look like?

I have a VIP722, VIP722k, and 2 VIP612 DVR's and a 301 SOLO. 
I have the 
America's Everything Plus Locals 102.98
Superstations Package 5.99
Protection Plan 5.99
I'm afraid to Figure it up.. I have the two 722's connected to a phone line or ethernet connection. The others are not.


----------



## peano

Conway said:


> Any Idea what my bill will look like?


$161.96 with what you posted, but you probably also pay the $10 HD charge so add that if you do.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Conway said:


> Any Idea what my bill will look like?
> 
> I have a VIP722, VIP722k, and 2 VIP612 DVR's and a 301 SOLO.
> I have the
> America's Everything Plus Locals 102.98
> Superstations Package 5.99
> Protection Plan 5.99
> I'm afraid to Figure it up.. I have the two 722's connected to a phone line or ethernet connection. The others are not.


No one really knows for sure yet. This is really the offical pricing for those that AT&T and Dish combo. Everything else is just a guess, and thats why the numbers are all over the place


----------



## phrelin

I've been looking back at old threads on rate changes. I guess Dish doesn't provide a complete (like 3 pages normal type) rate sheet of some kind that everyone - customers and CSRs and other employees like the guys who maintain the web site - can look at? I've never found one buried on the web site. No wonder there's so much confusion if they don't.


----------



## peano

GrumpyBear said:


> No one really knows for sure yet. This is really the offical pricing for those that AT&T and Dish combo. Everything else is just a guess, and thats why the numbers are all over the place


We know for sure. Dish published the new fees on their retailer chat yesterday.


----------



## scooper

I'd say those rates are going to make some of you with multiple receivers look at "Do I REALLY need all these TVs with individual satellite receivers ?", Or can I do some consolidation ?


----------



## phrelin

peano said:


> We know for sure. Dish published the new fees on their retailer chat yesterday.


As in a printed document in everyone's hands, or a chat that is subject to "mis-speak" and "gee, I don't remember what they said."

If there is a detailed price sheet, where is it? I know the numbers are plugged into the web site order process where you can't order a 508 or your 7th receiver or Absolute. What exactly is _written down_ to guide you in explaining to an existing customer off of contract what's going to happen to his Absolute package with a 622, two 722's, one 211k, and one 508.

Where does the customer who can read get that info. We seem to be the last people to have access to this information. I know. I'll call a CSR in the Philippines and accept whatever they tell me, then come here and discover I've been screwed.

There should be a complete pricing sheet reflecting the thinking of someone who has seen a working 501 and 6000, who knows what the absolute package is without looking at old written material, and knows that the web site says the current HBO/Showtime freebee is available to any existing customer who hasn't had a similar freebee in the last six months but the CSRs are being told the time period was a year.

I've never seen such an accurate - cover every contingency - pricing sheet and am of the opinion none exists.

Obviously, I have my opinion on how a retail service company would be competently run by someone in retail service marketing who doesn't need to know crap about the inside of a satellite.


----------



## cjrleimer

I am curious what my bill would be after the increases here is what I have 
Classic Gold 250 with locals 62.99 
Multi Sports Pack 5.99 
DHPP 5.99 
Solo 5.00 
Duo 5.00 
total 84.97 add on 78 cents tax 85.75 
I have a primary 322G Reciver and a secondary 322G Reciver


----------



## CABill

peano said:


> We know for sure. Dish published the new fees on their retailer chat yesterday.


I don't have access to the retailer chat to know, but it seems like the only knowns are the $7 per independent output and $3 per DVR component of Additional Rec fees and the basic package pricing staying unchanged (mostly). The DISH prices of the Turbo packages don't match the $5 decrease in the OP's AT&T pricing - right?

Has anybody said anything about what really happens with receivers that aren't connected to phone / Internet? I did see something that installers were still required to connect, but don't know anything about the rumored fee if they weren't connected (or 6 month credit for having all Duos connected).

It would seem like there is a little fine print that isn't known for sure, but the Additional Rec fees seem solid.


----------



## GrumpyBear

peano said:


> We know for sure. Dish published the new fees on their retailer chat yesterday.


Thats great, go ahead and post what dish posted on the Retailer chat. That way we can compare to the OP's pricing from AT&T.


----------



## dolmar

GrumpyBear said:


> No one really knows for sure yet. This is really the offical pricing for those that AT&T and Dish combo. Everything else is just a guess, and thats why the numbers are all over the place


Naw it is official the price stated in Retailer chat on 9am EST were identical to the price on ATT web page.

Like I said you don't have to believe me, but you will see next month when you get whacked on your bill that generates after Feb 1.

Yeah ATT had some different pricing I Guess for some packages than Dish directly where others were I same. The hardware charges were 100% correct.


----------



## phrelin

dolmar said:


> Naw it is official the price stated in Retailer chat on 9am EST were identical to the price on ATT web page.


So the retailers got the official "chat" while ATT put the details up on its web page. No wonder Dish CSRs and the Dish web site conflict. Let's don't write it down and email it to everyone and put the original document on our web site when we can chat about it and everyone can misremember it.

Wonder what will happen when the CSRs get buried in phone complaints about the details of the new rates. I can hear the calls now, starting with "I didn't order something called America's Top 200, I ordered the Silver Package." Real marketing genius here.


----------



## GrumpyBear

dolmar said:


> Naw it is official the price stated in Retailer chat on 9am EST were identical to the price on ATT web page.
> 
> Like I said you don't have to believe me, but you will see next month when you get whacked on your bill that generates after Feb 1.
> 
> Yeah ATT had some different pricing I Guess for some packages than Dish directly where others were I same. The hardware charges were 100% correct.


If this is all said and done, can somebody just please post the official Retailer chat, or scan in a hard copy. Not saying you are wrong, just saying there seems to be alot of confusion out there, even after the chat. Little jaded on this site about insider claims by people that don't pan out, and posters disappear or ignore all the talk.


----------



## phrelin

GrumpyBear said:


> If this is all said and done, can somebody just please post the official Retailer chat, or scan in a hard copy. Not saying you are wrong, just saying there seems to be alot of confusion out there, even after the chat. Little jaded on this site about insider claims by people that don't pan out, and posters disappear or ignore all the talk.


I'd be truly surprised if there was a "hard copy" in anyone's hands.


----------



## GrumpyBear

phrelin said:


> I'd be truly surprised if there was a "hard copy" in anyone's hands.


Thats why I will take with a grain of Salt on some changes, until its posted offically. This could all be right and some people could see HUGE price increases, or there is still some info that hasn't been covered correctly yet.


----------



## Link

My grandparents have a dual tuner VIP 222 receiver in their living room. This is what Dish gave them when they signed up. The second tuner is not used for another room and they don't need it. Can we call and request a swap? With the $5 phone line credit, this didn't matter, but if they are going to be charged extra for it now it is an issue. If this is their primary receiver though, will there not be any extra fees?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Directv going to be cheaper now? If I recall they have dual tuner DVR that just cost $5 for an additional receiver and one DVR free of $6.00 per account. The only thing they don't have is the 2 TV option with one receiver--but with these Dish price changes, that doesn't save anything anymore.


----------



## peano

GrumpyBear said:


> If this is all said and done, can somebody just please post the official Retailer chat, or scan in a hard copy. Not saying you are wrong, just saying there seems to be alot of confusion out there, even after the chat. Little jaded on this site about insider claims by people that don't pan out, and posters disappear or ignore all the talk.


http://www.satelliteguys.us/frontpage-news/199698-retailer-chat.html#post2075056


----------



## phrelin

peano said:


> http://www.satelliteguys.us/frontpage-news/199698-retailer-chat.html#post2075056


Just as I suspected, that screenshot isn't a pricing sheet with explanations.

If you go to the web site new customer order system here's what appears on the screen with different alternatives which is consistent with that screenshot:

1 HD Solo Receiver (one hd TV) _*included*_

1 HD Duo receiver (one hd TV and one standard TV)_* included*_

1 HD DuoDVR Receiver (one hd TV and one standard TV) *included*

1 HD Solo DVR Receiver and one HD Solo Receiver (one hd TV and one HD TV) _*HD Leased Receiver Fee 1 $7.00*_

1 HD DuoDVR Receiver and 1 Solo DVR Receiver (one hd TV, one standard TV, and one HD TV) _*DVR RECEIVER FEE $12.00*_

2 HD DuoDVR Receivers (one hd TV, one standard TV, and one HD TV) _*DVR RECEIVER FEE $12.00*_

1 HD DuoDVR Receiver, 1 HD Solo DVR Receiver, and 1 HD Solo Receiver (one hd TV, one standard TV, one HD TV and one HD TV) _*DVR RECEIVER FEE $12.00 + HD SOLO DVR RECEIVER FEE $7.00*_

In other words, assuming you are getting your boxes from Dish Network, the first box is free and each additional box costs money.

None of this explains how Dish is going to handle an existing customer who has a 622 from Dish, an owned 722k and an owned 508. I'm sure that nobody believes the amortization of the Dish-owned boxes isn't built into the fee structure and that it would be reasonable to charge the same total fees for customer-owned boxes. If they try to charge customers who own their boxes the same fees, I assume they've added 30 folks at the Administrative Office to handle the several million customers who own their boxes, plus notified their attorneys so they can add associates to handle the 52 "bait and switch" complaints.

Did they "chat" about that at all?


----------



## peano

Doesn't matter if you own or lease your receivers. You will still pay the fees.


----------



## phrelin

peano said:


> Doesn't matter if you own or lease your receivers. You will still pay the fees.


Not for long.


----------



## coldsteel

phrelin said:


> Not for long.


How do you figure that? The additional receiver fees have ALWAYS been the same, whether or not the box is leased or owned.


----------



## phrelin

coldsteel said:


> How do you figure that? The additional receiver fees have ALWAYS been the same, whether or not the box is leased or owned.


Because no fee comparable to the old lease fee shows up in the system to otherwise cover the cost of the box. There either should be a credit back or some other way to acknowledge that customer ownership saves Dish money. Customers who bought their 722k's last year as their second receiver paying an extra $7 (or $5.98?) aren't going to stand for the $17 fee. If that's the setup, it is a potential class-action suit waiting to happen.


----------



## dolmar

phrelin said:


> Because no fee comparable to the old lease fee shows up in the system to otherwise cover the cost of the box. There either should be a credit back or some other way to acknowledge that customer ownership saves Dish money. Customers who bought their 722k's last year as their second receiver paying an extra $7 (or $5.98?) aren't going to stand for the $17 fee. If that's the setup, it is a potential class-action suit waiting to happen.


Good luck on that, if you were under contract with a leased receiver you might have some recourse like being able to cancel your contract with no ETF based on the fact Dish unilaterally changed the lease terms but if you are month to month or own your own equipment you have no recourse at all except cancel and switch providers.

Think about it this way. If buy a cellphone or a dsl modem from best buy at the no contract price that does not mean either wireless carrier or telco has to agree to sell your service for the life of the product at the price you signed up for because you say so. You own your equipment, you are free to cancel at any time you want if you reject their new prices. The fact you paid $500 for your cellphone not to be in a contract does not obligate the carrier to sell you service at the price you signed up originally or at that price for ever. You have no contract at all do you have any expressed or implied guarantee on pricing from the provider so they are free to do what ever they choose.

Same concept as leasing an apartment, if you sign a contract to pay X per month for X months you landlord can not raise your rent but if you choose to stay in your apartment on a month to month basis you landlord can raise your rent each month if he choose to do so. The only exception to that rule would be for rent controlled apartments but Sat TV rates are not regulated at all so you have no recourse except cancel and move on just like a non rent controlled tenant has 2 choices try to get landlord to agree to new contract with a set price, continue month to month and be at the landlord mercy or move out.

On the flip side if you signed up with a contract, and they gave you a subsidized equipment, and they change your rates at any time while you are under contract normally you have a way to get out of contract without paying the ETF depending on your state and local laws. In California if Dish choose to change the lease fee of equipment of customers under contract that could be considered a breach in contract and grounds to get out of your contract with no ETF. The question is local AG or customers are willing to challenge Dish on the fact the equipment are leases based on the fact they collect an upfront "Lease Fee" and even on their own statement they call the fee "DHA Receiver Lease Fee". If you can establish that in fact the equipment is being leased to you per contract at the prices stated in the contract then Dish has no right to change the "Lease Fee" till you are out of contract or give you an opinion to opt of your contract as you reject their changes. But if you are not under contract or you own your own equipment then you have only 2 choices accept their new month to month price or cancel service.


----------



## coldsteel

phrelin said:


> Because no fee comparable to the old lease fee shows up in the system to otherwise cover the cost of the box. There either should be a credit back or some other way to acknowledge that customer ownership saves Dish money. Customers who bought their 722k's last year as their second receiver paying an extra $7 (or $5.98?) aren't going to stand for the $17 fee. If that's the setup, it is a potential class-action suit waiting to happen.


Sorry, people that bought a 722K are paying $7 and $5.98 and maybe $5 if not connected to a phone line. Also, there's that little line in the RSA that says they can change prices all they want.


----------



## GrumpyBear

So it looks like I lose the $5.98 for the phone/internet connection, sucks, but get $5.99 back in as Locals are now included in the package price and the package price isn't changing for Gold, just the name change. No extra for Platinum channels still included, so we still save the money on that vs last yr. Some of us got an early savings on that one(big thank you to L8er for that bit of advice) have to pay an extra $6(?) for house dvr fee, which is extra for me, granted if I didn't get the early jump on the Platinum savings it would be a few extra pennies more a month. I save .98 for my 622, and will save 2.90 a month, for my 612 when I activate 3-4months out of the yr. 
I am just not seeing a huge increase here.


----------



## fryguy503

phrelin said:


> Because no fee comparable to the old lease fee shows up in the system to otherwise cover the cost of the box. There either should be a credit back or some other way to acknowledge that customer ownership saves Dish money. Customers who bought their 722k's last year as their second receiver paying an extra $7 (or $5.98?) aren't going to stand for the $17 fee. If that's the setup, it is a potential class-action suit waiting to happen.


*ALL* Dish network contracts include the lovely line that says "All prices and promotions are subject to change at any time" the contract does not lock you into any price or agreement other then, you agree to maintain a minimum level of programing for x amount of months. This is one of those times where if you dont like it, cancel. I can tell you people who's bill will be going up, *WILL automatically* get 6mo's of credits based on how high there bill is to help ease them into the price change.

---

*ALL* posts on this fourm are opinions of myself and do not represent dish network, echostar or any employee of the company.


----------



## fryguy503

Here are the NON-Confirmed credits, all info is subject to change -

If your bill goes up by then the credit you will automatically recive for 6 months will be:

$0.00 -> $6.99 = No credit
$7.00 -> $8.99 = $2.00 Credit /6mo's
$9.00 -> $10.99 = $4.00 Credit /6mo's
$11.00 -> $14.99 = $6.00 Credit /6mo's
$15.00 + = $6.00 Credit /6mo's

---

*ALL* posts on this fourm are opinions of myself and do not represent dish network, echostar or any employee of the company.


----------



## Kheldar

And for the people that state that DishNet can't change lease fees during a term commitment, I challenge you to find any reference to lease fees in the customer agreements (DHA or RCA).

The RCA states:


> A. Lease Terms. We may choose to lease certain Equipment to subscribers. Unless otherwise specified in an applicable Promotion Agreement(s), such Equipment (including without limitation, the LNBFs, but not the satellite antenna), shall at all times remain the sole and exclusive property of DISH Network, and we may provide or replace leased Equipment with new or reconditioned Equipment at any time, and upon cancellation or disconnection of your Services, remove or require the return of such Equipment. No leased Equipment provided to you by DISH Network shall be deemed fixtures or part of your real property. We may make such filings and recordings that we may consider necessary to evidence our ownership rights in such Equipment, and you agree to execute any and all documents that we may consider necessary for us to make such filings. Our ownership of such Equipment may be displayed by notice contained on it. You have no right at any time to pledge, sell, mortgage, otherwise encumber, give away, remove, relocate, alter or tamper with such Equipment, or to tamper with or alter any notice of our ownership on such Equipment. Any reinstallation, return, or change in the location of such Equipment must be performed by DISH Network at our then-current service rates. You shall not attach any electrical or other devices to, or in any way alter, any such Equipment without our prior written consent. You are responsible for preventing the loss or destruction of leased Equipment and we recommend that such Equipment be covered by your homeowners, renters or other insurance policy.


No mention of any lease fees. The same fees apply whether the receivers are leased or owned:







Therefore, they are not "lease fees", and apply simply because "You have more than 1 receiver on your account", regardless of whether you lease or own them.

Granted I'm not a lawyer, but since the same fees apply regardless of ownership or lease status, I don't think they would be considered "lease fees", and therefore they should be able to be changed without violating the terms of the lease agreement.


----------



## GrumpyBear

fryguy503 said:


> Here are the NON-Confirmed credits, all info is subject to change -
> 
> If your bill goes up by then the credit you will automatically recive for 6 months will be:
> 
> $0.00 -> $6.99 = No credit
> $7.00 -> $8.99 = $2.00 Credit /6mo's
> $9.00 -> $10.99 = $4.00 Credit /6mo's
> $11.00 -> $14.99 = $6.00 Credit /6mo's
> $15.00 + = $6.00 Credit /6mo's
> 
> ---
> 
> *ALL* posts on this fourm are opinions of myself and do not represent dish network, echostar or any employee of the company.


Thats some great info.


----------



## coldsteel

Just remember, all this can change before 2/1/10.


----------



## peano

GrumpyBear said:


> I am just not seeing a huge increase here.


Most won't. Only their best customers on AEP with multiple Duo DVRs are getting hosed.


----------



## peano

coldsteel said:


> Just remember, all this can change before 2/1/10.


Why would they change something they just released to their retailers?


----------



## GrumpyBear

peano said:


> Most won't. Only their best customers on AEP with multiple Duo DVRs are getting hosed.


How so? Addtional HD DuoDVR actually go down .98 per reciever in overall price, according to your chart.


----------



## peano

fryguy503 said:


> Here are the NON-Confirmed credits, all info is subject to change -
> 
> If your bill goes up by then the credit you will automatically recive for 6 months will be:
> 
> $0.00 -> $6.99 = No credit
> $7.00 -> $8.99 = $2.00 Credit /6mo's
> $9.00 -> $10.99 = $4.00 Credit /6mo's
> $11.00 -> $14.99 = $6.00 Credit /6mo's
> $15.00 + = $6.00 Credit /6mo's


Whoopeeee! A $36 total credit for a $396 increase for me!


----------



## coldsteel

peano said:


> Why would they change something they just released to their retailers?


It's corporate America. Things can always change.


----------



## peano

GrumpyBear said:


> How so? Addtional HD DuoDVR actually go down .98 per reciever in overall price, according to your chart.


HD Duo PVRs connected to a phoneline were $7. Now they are $17. AEP customers did not pay the DVR fee. Now we do.


----------



## GrumpyBear

peano said:


> HD Duo PVRs connected to a phoneline were $7. Now they are $17. AEP customers did not pay the DVR fee. Now we do.


Didn't realize that All DVR's with the AEP connected were free.


----------



## Shades228

I'm waiting for an official announcement because these changes don't makes sense.


----------



## peano

Shades228 said:


> I'm waiting for an official announcement because these changes don't makes sense.


They certainly don't make sense. Dish Network is punishing its best customers. You can wait for the announcement, but it will be the same as posted here.


----------



## fryguy503

peano said:


> They certainly don't make sense. Dish Network is punishing its best customers. You can wait for the announcement, but it will be the same as posted here.


It does make sense from a marketing standpoint. How many companies do you see advertise their equipment prices or fees? Most advertise only programming prices. Dish network can now advertise that that D*, comcast, FiOS, etc. all raised their programing rates but E* has not.


----------



## GrumpyBear

It will also let Dish say HD Locals are Free as well. 
As a Gold250, or whatever it will be called, with Locals
HD+Platinum, with a ViP622 and a ViP722, and a Partime ViP612.
Compared to this time last yr even with the loss of the phone line connection discount, addition of a $6 fee for Home DVR.
Including Locals in the package, Platinum for free, .98 saving a month on 2nd HD Duo DVR.
My bill increase wont even qualify me for any of the credits.
I will have to see if its still worth at the end of next month to see if I want to keep my HBO/Showtime combo.
This will make me think about adding a ViP222k down the road though. Dish seems to be charging the NON DVR's, (that they know people will be changing into DVR's) so there isn't that much of a break for those machines as there used to be, granted I am only looking at adding one so its only a 3 dollar saving's to add a ViP222k instead of a ViP722k.

Sorry to hear that those with the AEP and mutiple DVR's are going to be bearing the brunt of this price increase, and not making light of it. The theme of the thread sure made me think I was about to have all my hardware fees doubled, and seeing a huge price increase, and more my house and my parents house, and lots of other, this just isn't the case.


----------



## peano

fryguy503 said:


> It does make sense from a marketing standpoint. How many companies do you see advertise their equipment prices or fees? Most advertise only programming prices. Dish network can now advertise that that D*, comcast, FiOS, etc. all raised their programing rates but E* has not.


Ahh, I get it. Hide the greed with deception. Perfect. 

TV will eventually be have to be marketed the same way some cellular companies have just now begun advertising: - the rate includes all fees, etc.

Separating fees and not disclosing them until the customer signs up may work short term, but customers will soon tire of being nickle and dimed to death.


----------



## GrumpyBear

peano said:


> Ahh, I get it. Hide the greed with deception. Perfect.
> 
> TV will eventually be have to be marketed the same way some cellular companies have just now begun advertising: - the rate includes all fees, etc.
> 
> Separating fees and not disclosing them until the customer signs up may work short term, but customers will soon tire of being nickle and dimed to death.


Don't you mean Combining fee's and not disclosing them? Old way addtional outlet fee, TV2 connectionfee, DVR Service Fee. 
New way, additional HD-DVR =X, with no breakdown. No hookup phone or internet for discount, just a flat fee. No more package X, plus Locals, its Package X and locals are bundled.


----------



## CABill

coldsteel said:


> How do you figure that? The additional receiver fees have ALWAYS been the same, whether or not the box is leased or owned.


Strictly nit picking here. ALWAYS, regardless of subject, will likely end up being "almost always". First, we'd have to exclude the long period where owned Addl receivers were $4.99 and leased receivers were $5 (and for a while they were $5 for the 1st one too). Remember, I said nit pick.  And then you have the couple years where a single receiver that was leased via DIU had a lease fee but no fee if owned.

If you had left out ALWAYS, I would have just kept quiet! The guy that just posted his single receiver Lease fee not withstanding.


----------



## GrumpyBear

CABill said:


> Strictly nit picking here. ALWAYS, regardless of subject, will likely end up being "almost always". First, we'd have to exclude the long period where owned Addl receivers were $4.99 and leased receivers were $5 (and for a while they were $5 for the 1st one too). Remember, I said nit pick.  And then you have the couple years where a single receiver that was leased via DIU had a lease fee but no fee if owned.
> 
> If you had left out ALWAYS, I would have just kept quiet! The guy that just posted his single receiver Lease fee not withstanding.


Ah the good ol days prior to any HD service and pre DVR days. When you could buy your equipment, and use a VCR with it.


----------



## CABill

GrumpyBear said:


> Ah the good ol days prior to any HD service and pre DVR days. When you could buy your equipment, and use a VCR with it.


COULD buy your equipment? I didn't include the period where you HAD to buy because leasing wasn't a choice. My 4000 receiver was bundled with a year of Top 50.


----------



## dolmar

Kheldar said:


> No mention of any lease fees. The same fees apply whether the receivers are leased or owned:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore, they are not "lease fees", and apply simply because "You have more than 1 receiver on your account", regardless of whether you lease or own them.
> 
> Granted I'm not a lawyer, but since the same fees apply regardless of ownership or lease status, I don't think they would be considered "lease fees", and therefore they should be able to be changed without violating the terms of the lease agreement.


Glad you are not a lawyer(even tho I passed the bar, and have not practiced law in 20 years I know a little more than you) because if you were you would be the dumbest attorney on planet. By your own quote Dish in their contract stated "The satellite receiver(s), smart card(s), remote control(s), and LNBFs provided to you under this Agreement are *leased* and remain the property of DISH Network at all times." so according Dish own contract your are in fact leasing the receiver from Dish.



> Fees and Payments: You agree to pay monthly by the payment due date for the programming you select and for all applicable fees. State and local taxes and/or reimbursement charges may apply as set forth in the RCA. You have paid or you agree to pay the following one-time lease upgrade fees, if applicable: (A) $200 for the first ViP 922 receiver; (B) $100 for a second 522, 625 or ViP 612 receiver; (C) $150 for a second ViP 622 receiver; (D) $200 for a second ViP 722 or ViP 722k receiver; and (E) $400 for a second ViP 922 receiver. Other fees may apply as set forth in the RCA. All payments are non-refundable. All receivers selected by you within the first 30 days following initial activation of your account will be treated for all purposes, including without limitation, ownership and Unreturned Equipment Charges, as selected by you under this Agreement. The following monthly fees apply:


Then again Dish refers to the receivers as being leased and require an upfront *1x lease upgrade fee.*

From enacted section 2A of the California Uniform Commercial Code you will find the following:



> A lease grant the temporary possession or use of (lands, tenements, equipment, etc.) to another, for compensation at a fixed rate;


So if you are able to prove that in fact Dish Equipment is leased, and you signed a 24 month contract then the fee's set forth in the Dish Contact found at http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/legal/DHA_Agreement.pdf should be enforceable and dish has no legal right to modify the contract with out your consent when it comes to the lease fee's set forth in the contract. Dish does have a right to change programing package and what channels are included in each package and the price it charges for those package. Then the final icing on the cake is that Dish them selfs bill that fee as "DHA *Receiver Lease Fee* " so on your bill they again admit that you are paying a monthly lease fee, if the receiver were in fact not leased and subject to state and local leasing laws then Dish would call it a rental fee, the reason Dish calls them leases over rental fee's is simple many state law state that if you rent something and you loose it, break it or do not return it etc the owner is only entitled to collect a maximum of the of the retail value of the item minus any and all payments that you made towards said item, if item has a retail value of $300 and you made payments for $500 over last 3 years, you would owe nothing to owner if you lost or broke the rented item, vs lease has a damage clause which does not have a cap but has a fixed monthly payment. The main reason why a lease item is not capped at retail value of the item is lease charge interest which is not regulated or fixed by any state as lease do not charge an interest rate but a money factor which is a form interest anyways.

Again this will vary by states but in california that is the difference between a rented item and a lease item.

P.S. Sorry please do not take my post the wrong way, I was not trying to be rude or insulting to you but I find it funny that you play lawyer when you are clearly not a lawyer and then ignore key legal phrase and quote then dispute facts and selectively quote things that you think might make you look smarter when you are clearly wrong.


----------



## VDP07

Appologies ahead of time for any repeated info. The following Dish price changes are detailed in Dish's Facts Blast dated 1/15/10.

No price increases to the AT, Dish latino or HD packages.

DVR Advantage replaced by "with DVR"

The above packages "with DVR" will all increase by $1mo except for Dish Latino Dos "with DVR" which will drop by $2mo.

Unless you have more than 1 reciever on your account, the above info pretty much covers it.

As discussed, the 2/1/10 price increase is primarily on addl recievers.


Reciever model before 2/1/10 after 2/1/10
SOLO $5.00 $7.00
HD SOLO 7.00 7.00
SOLO DVR 5.00+5.98 10.00
HD SOLO DVR 7.00+5.98 10.00
DUO 5.00 14.00
HD DUO 7.00 14.00
DUO DVR 5.00+5.98 17.00
HD DUO DVR 7.00+5.98 17.00

The before 2/1/10 prices assume a phone connection and thus no $5.00 TV2
connection fee. As of 2/1/10 the TV2 connection fee will no longer be waived with a phone connection.

Depending on the phone connection status pryor to 2/1/10, the resulting addl. reciever price increase will be between $0 in the case of a 211k (hd solo) and $9.00 in the case of a 322 (duo). For a Solo DVR or an HD Solo DVR the addl. reciever fee will actually decrease after 2/1/10


----------



## VDP07

My above post does not appear as written. If it's not clear, the last amount for each reciever family is the after 2/1/10 price. Sorry for the flub.


----------



## GrumpyBear

VDP07 said:


> My above post does not appear as written. If it's not clear, the last amount for each reciever family is the after 2/1/10 price. Sorry for the flub.


All the info the better. Don't confuse the lawyers with facts, and showing the price differences, some more, couple the same, and some less. Everybody here is about to pay big time, huge fee increases, time to jump ship to Uverse.

Granted, I have looked over my house, my parents house and a neighbors house. Compared to last yrs increase and what 2009's bill started out at, and how they have included things, none of us are seeing much of an increase, and neighbor is getting a decrease, by having ViP612's instead of HD Duo DVR's.

I understand that those with AEP, and more then 3 DVR's are going to get price increase, I don't see a Drastic, Dish screwed me over price increase for everybody else. AEP must be a bleeding money for them, and they are trying to force people out of it, or there is more info coming on that package.


----------



## surfdude85

o.k. then what if I wanted to add another hd(non dvr) receiver for another room in my house. here's what I would have.(2-211's in 2 rooms). would they charge me a lease fee for just one more receiver(non dvr)? and must they do the install? I can do everything myself. thanks for any help Mike


----------



## Dave

February's bill will be out Tuesday the 19th. Then we can all compare our new bills and compare the price increase.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Dave said:


> February's bill will be out Tuesday the 19th. Then we can all compare our new bills and compare the price increase.


Not for everybody.

My current bill was generated a week ago... and is due on the 25th. I won't see another bill until mid-Feb.

I presume that next one I see in Feb would be the one that sees the price increase.


----------



## Link

I'm trying to understand all this. We have an 722 DVR, 625 DVR, and a 222 receiver. The 722 and 625 run in single mode and are not used for a 2nd room just for dual tuning recording purposes. The 222 is connected to two rooms.

Right now the bill shows the 222 included as the primary receiver. There is a $5.00 charge for the 625 and a $12 charge ($7 receiver + $5 DVR fee) for the 722 DVR. 

Am I correct that the charge of the 625 is going up $5 for the TV2 tuner and the 722 will remain at $12 because the $5 DVR fee goes off of it but now they'll be a TV2 tuner charge of $5 instead? There will also be a $1.00 increase of the Classic Silver with DVR--so our bill will go up $6??

If so that is worse than Dish's usual $2-3 increase. I think I might just take the 625 DVR off the account and drop the Classic Gold 250 Bonus Pack and save on the bill for a change.


----------



## CoolGui

No offense guys, but I don't believe any of the "inside information" until I see it from Dish. This goes back to when I dropped the HD Absolute package partially because everyone said they wouldn't add new channels... and they promptly... ADDED CHANNELS. 

That being said, I don't doubt there will be an increase as there is one every year really. But it seems like they usually put a notice in the bill or something the month before. I have paperless billing but I am pretty sure they have a place in the PDF online for the notices. Has anyone seen this yet?


----------



## James Long

VDP07 said:


> *As of 2/1/10 the TV2 connection fee will no longer be waived with a phone connection.*


That is lousy news, and the biggest part of the rate increase.
(No, I won't consider it a discount to have a HD Duo for $17 instead of two HD Solos for $10 each. I run my 622 in single mode so I can have better background recording and the occasional PIP, not two rooms of service.)

If this is true and there is no positive enforcement "reward" (a credit or lack of penalty) for connecting a phone line or Internet why would people bother to connect their lines? Or is DISH planning negative enforcement via the audit department?


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## BillJ

I downloaded my bill through February 26 yesterday and it's at the old rates. It will be another month before I see any increase. Same as last year's increase. I just wish Dish would send me a letter with two columns showing what I'm paying now and what I will be paying. And send it now so I have time to digest it all and decide what I want to do. But I don't expect them to do anything so customer friendly.


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## Stewart Vernon

Agreed... if they drop the $5 credit for connecting via phone or broadband... a lot of people might disconnect that.

I have a feeling like IF it is true and this credit is dropped... Dish might eventually pony up some PPV passes which would encourage you to connect your receiver to phone/broadband nd at least give you something for that extra $5 you'd be paying per month.

Of course I'm still hedging any actual anger/disappointment until I see if this rate increase info is true.

For the moment the only places it has been rumored to have been discussed are:

1. AT&T Web site which can only be accessed if you are an existing Dish/AT&T bundled subscriber.
2. A Dish Retailer chat, which theoretically is not supposed to be public knowledge.

So... I personally have no way, as a Dish customer, to verify any of the rumors of price increases on my own since any CSR at Dish will be unaware of changes in price until they happen in the computer they use.


----------



## siwsiw

Stewart Vernon said:


> Agreed... if they drop the $5 credit for connecting via phone or broadband... a lot of people might disconnect that.
> 
> I have a feeling like IF it is true and this credit is dropped... Dish might eventually pony up some PPV passes which would encourage you to connect your receiver to phone/broadband nd at least give you something for that extra $5 you'd be paying per month.
> 
> Of course I'm still hedging any actual anger/disappointment until I see if this rate increase info is true.
> 
> For the moment the only places it has been rumored to have been discussed are:
> 
> 1. AT&T Web site which can only be accessed if you are an existing Dish/AT&T bundled subscriber.
> 2. A Dish Retailer chat, which theoretically is not supposed to be public knowledge.
> 
> So... I personally have no way, as a Dish customer, to verify any of the rumors of price increases on my own since any CSR at Dish will be unaware of changes in price until they happen in the computer they use.


Well, I am sure about that this ruomr is true. I got a quote from a Dish representitive with the new prices, what was stated is true. I have a very complicated billing configuration and it is true that they are charging $7 per extra tuner beyond the first one and $3 for the each extra DVR beyond the first one in addtion to the standard single DVR fee on the account of $6. The connection fee is also dropped.


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## CABill

Link said:


> I'm trying to understand all this. We have an 722 DVR, 625 DVR, and a 222 receiver. The 722 and 625 run in single mode and are not used for a 2nd room just for dual tuning recording purposes. The 222 is connected to two rooms.
> 
> Right now the bill shows the 222 included as the primary receiver. There is a $5.00 charge for the 625 and a $12 charge ($7 receiver + $5 DVR fee) for the 722 DVR.
> 
> Am I correct that the charge of the 625 is going up $5 for the TV2 tuner and the 722 will remain at $12 because the $5 DVR fee goes off of it but now they'll be a TV2 tuner charge of $5 instead? There will also be a $1.00 increase of the Classic Silver with DVR--so our bill will go up $6??
> 
> If so that is worse than Dish's usual $2-3 increase. I think I might just take the 625 DVR off the account and drop the Classic Gold 250 Bonus Pack and save on the bill for a change.


Whether single or dual mode doesn't matter for billing $. Every independent output will now cost $7 (excluding your 722 - whatever is most "expensive"). Although your 222 is currently primary, it would be $14 as an addl rec and the 722 would be $17 so it should be BILLED as if it were the primary. I don't *believe* it will matter which appears as the Primary when you check online. There is another $5 you presently pay on the 625, but it likely appears on the bill as "with DVR". The posted price "changes" are based on people paying $5.98 DVR fees on each DVR, but some people pay $0 (AEP) and others pay $5 (like you).

Pretending your 722 is Primary (or billed as if it were), you'd pay the $6 DVR fee for it, $17 for the 625, and $14 for the 222. That added $37 is $15 more than the added $22 you now pay ($10 625 and $12 722). The 625 is the biggest part of the increase (two outputs @ $7 instead of a single $5). If you drop the 625, it would come down $17 - more than covering the $15 increase. You could run the 722's home dist TV2 to the TV connected to the 625, but you could also replace the 625 with a 211 and an external HD to get DVR (single sat plus possible OTA record) which would add $7 - a total of $5 more than you pay now. That might get you into another 2 year commit (with an increased cost to get out of starting in Feb) - some people may not be in the mood to commit to a subscription to avoid monthly price increases.

NOTE the posts about price increases producing some short term credits - they would reduce your $15 increase. It is also possible you might get a short term credit (or avoid a fee) if all three of your dual output receivers are connected to a phone line / broadband. Makes it hard to say exactly what your increase will be, but $15 is a better starting point than the $6 you posted.


----------



## CABill

Stewart Vernon said:


> So... I personally have no way, as a Dish customer, to verify any of the rumors of price increases on my own since any CSR at Dish will be unaware of changes in price until they happen in the computer they use.


I've phone a CSR (added HBO & Showtime promo) and asked about the changes. The CSR I talked to was aware of the changes and confirmed the parts I happened to ask about. Something I asked about produced a "can't say until Feb", so I didn't continue asking. She had had training on the changes but could only confirm AT120 name instead of a metal, no price change on it, but phone/broadband question was a show stopper.


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## Link

CABill said:


> Whether single or dual mode doesn't matter for billing $. Every independent output will now cost $7 (excluding your 722 - whatever is most "expensive"). Although your 222 is currently primary, it would be $14 as an addl rec and the 722 would be $17 so it should be BILLED as if it were the primary. I don't *believe* it will matter which appears as the Primary when you check online. There is another $5 you presently pay on the 625, but it likely appears on the bill as "with DVR". The posted price "changes" are based on people paying $5.98 DVR fees on each DVR, but some people pay $0 (AEP) and others pay $5 (like you).
> 
> Pretending your 722 is Primary (or billed as if it were), you'd pay the $6 DVR fee for it, $17 for the 625, and $14 for the 222. That added $37 is $15 more than the added $22 you now pay ($10 625 and $12 722). The 625 is the biggest part of the increase (two outputs @ $7 instead of a single $5). If you drop the 625, it would come down $17 - more than covering the $15 increase. You could run the 722's home dist TV2 to the TV connected to the 625, but you could also replace the 625 with a 211 and an external HD to get DVR (single sat plus possible OTA record) which would add $7 - a total of $5 more than you pay now. That might get you into another 2 year commit (with an increased cost to get out of starting in Feb) - some people may not be in the mood to commit to a subscription to avoid monthly price increases.
> 
> NOTE the posts about price increases producing some short term credits - they would reduce your $15 increase. It is also possible you might get a short term credit (or avoid a fee) if all three of your dual output receivers are connected to a phone line / broadband. Makes it hard to say exactly what your increase will be, but $15 is a better starting point than the $6 you posted.


Thanks for the info. This seems a lot worse and more complicated than the usual $3 package increase.

Won't this make Directv considerably cheaper? As far as I know, they still have one DVR fee per account of $5.99 and a dual tuner DVR receiver HD or SD is $5.00 extra as is any additional receiver. I used to recommend Dish to friends because they could save on the receiver fees with the 2 tuners but I guess that will no longer be the case.


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## CoolGui

Link said:


> ... Won't this make Directv considerably cheaper? As far as I know, they still have one DVR fee per account of $5.99 and a dual tuner DVR receiver HD or SD is $5.00 extra as is any additional receiver. I used to recommend Dish to friends because they could save on the receiver fees with the 2 tuners but I guess that will no longer be the case.


I think you are right, the DVR fee shows as $6 and you can get a $1 discount on that with the XTRA package. So if you have more than one DVR, your bill could potentially be less with DirecTV. It seems like you'd save even more if they were multiple HD DVRs I think, and they don't seem to charge for the extra tuner in the receiver. DirecTV is supposed to be raising their rates as well, not sure if this includes equipment rental similar to what Dish is doing. Honestly I'm not concerned enough to compare the channels in the packages or the rumored DirecTV changes to try to make a comparison.


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## Jim5506

I'm sure Dish's bean counters have analyzed the dickens out of this and see that for subs with 1-2 receivers, the freezing of programming fees will give them a big advantage with potential new subs and they figure enough of the high dollar subs will stick around to offset the loss of those that bolt.

They are essentially saying that subs with mulitple DVR's are less profitable than the mom & pop subs with 1 or 2 receivers and they are changing their business model to reflect that "reality".

It might amuse me just a bit if they are proven seriously wrong by April.


----------



## CoolGui

You are probably right, Jim, but what does having extra receiver or DVRs really cost the company other than initial cost of the hardware? I'd rather they just charge up front for the hardware instead of screw you every month until you've paid for the hardware 10 times over after a couple years. It seems like corporate greed to me, but that's no real shocker. :eek2:


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## bnborg

I think the whole point is to make it so complicated that when your bill comes, you can't figure out how or why you are getting screwed.

And when you try to compare your alternatives (Dish, Cable, DT, etc.), you can't figure out which would be the least expensive.


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## CoolGui

Good point, bnborg... The way they all increase prices every year, at nearly the same time is suspect to me. An apologist for the industry would probably say it's just a coincidence or has to do with the new year, but I honestly think it's anticompetitive collusion.... Yeah, they have no problem getting customers from other providers, but let's just do that ASIDE from allowing us to all increase our prices. 

Although the content providers demanding more every year doesn't help any either.


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## jorossian

Strange

I just got my online bill today.

No package price increase whatsoever. Reciever lease fees the same. w/dvr pack price the same. No separate "dvr" $6 charge. Same pricing and pricing structure as ever.

Anyone else?

Any chance the increases will be added later in the month as adjustments?


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## CABill

jorossian said:


> Any chance the increases will be added later in the month as adjustments?


Just like every year, nobody will see any change until their bill is generated AFTER 1-Feb. I'll have my bill for 10-Feb thru 9-Mar generated on 23-Jan, and it will still have old prices - eventhough it is for a period starting in Feb.

Eventhough your programming package price won't increase in Feb, the unusual wording of no 1st quarter increase leaves a July programming increase possible in addition to the "simplification" of the bill they do in Feb.


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## Stewart Vernon

Not to beat the expired equine...

... conversations with a CSR are hardly confirmation of any rumor. Search the forum and you'll find numerous examples of CSRs that have told people:

1. Channels that Dish carries do not even exist.
2. Channels in package A are not really in package A.
3. You can't add an external drive to a 211.
4. You can't add an external drive to any Dish receiver.
5. Dish does (or does not) carry whatever channel you ask about, but the opposite is true.
6. HD can be connected using coax or composite cables to other TVs.

etc.
etc.

Again, I have no clue one way or the other on these new pricing rumors until I actually see something official from Dish myself as a customer. And while the rumors might even pan out to be true 100% as stated, I'll hedge my anger until that day comes to pass... and quoting a CSR as a confirmed source when 90% of the rest of the time the same folk who consider that "confirmation" have refuted other CSR claims.. seems dubious to me.


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## James Long

:beatdeadhorse: ?

There are some aspects of this I hope we're wrong about. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. But things are not looking good.


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## Link

James Long said:


> :beatdeadhorse: ?
> 
> There are some aspects of this I hope we're wrong about. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. But things are not looking good.


I sure hope so because if all this is true, this their worse increase ever. I don't know how others feel but I'm not going to pay $17 a month just for an extra dual tuner DVR especially if the second tuner is only used for recording and not viewing on another TV--that is just ridiculous to be priced per tuner.
Yes I could afford it, but I'm already paying almost $100 a month now and that is without any premium channels and 3 receivers. I think that is more than enough now to pay for TV.


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## TulsaOK

jorossian said:


> Strange
> 
> I just got my online bill today.
> 
> No package price increase whatsoever. Reciever lease fees the same. w/dvr pack price the same. No separate "dvr" $6 charge. Same pricing and pricing structure as ever.
> 
> Anyone else?
> 
> Any chance the increases will be added later in the month as adjustments?


Check your bill next month.


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## TulsaOK

:rant:
I'm never amazed at those who think that as a result of a price increase they are getting "screwed" or attribute it to "corporate greed". No one is holding a gun to your head and you're free to leave anytime. It all depends on how much you value watching TV, how much you're willing to pay. Once you reach a point where it's not affordable, either cut back on the programming or give up a receiver or two. There's always the option of going elsewhere where I'm sure folks never get "screwed". For those who can take advantage of OTA, it's FREE! I don't like price increases any more than the next guy but it's a part of doing, and staying in, business and either I agree or I make other arrangements. Or, I guess I could just whine about it.


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## puckwithahalo

I'll comment on Feb 1 when things are official and I don't have to worry about them deciding to change something last minute. That and we've basically been told not to talk about it til then too.


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## newsman

I have a 222 and 211. The 222 is connected via ethernet. I own both my receivers. I may have to sell the 222 and get another 211. No sense in getting screwed for something where I use it for the rare PIP (during football season). I already get charged for the 211 - as the 222 is my primary.  Though, I am currently unemployed, we may have to drop satellite altogether if things don't improve. So, it may be OTA all-the-way.


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## CABill

newsman said:


> I have a 222 and 211. The 222 is connected via ethernet. I own both my receivers. I may have to sell the 222 and get another 211. No sense in getting screwed for something where I use it for the rare PIP (during football season).


There would be no price advantage to trading your 222 for a 211. Possible techincal advantage if you wanted to add an external drive. The full page ads in my local paper still say "FREE Service on Second TV" and that should still be true after 1-Feb (for ONE Duo receiver). If you had two 222s, you'd have a reason to trade one for a 211. The job market and economic situations might dictate a change, but your receiver combo shouldn't generate a price change.


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## CABill

Stewart Vernon said:


> Not to beat the expired equine...
> And while the rumors might even pan out to be true 100% as stated, I'll hedge my anger until that day comes to pass... and quoting a CSR as a confirmed source when 90% of the rest of the time the same folk who consider that "confirmation" have refuted other CSR claims.. seems dubious to me.


Dead horses are fair game. 

It all depends on what the CSR says. Both annual sub and connection charges producing ~ "You would have to wait until Feb - that wasn't covered in my training on the changes" should be believed. Contrast that with a statement that nobody should believe:


> since any CSR at Dish will be unaware of changes in price until they happen in the computer they use.


Neither of us probably knows what CSRs get told, but even in a normal Jan, they probably all get memos about the changes before they go into effect. This year, there is supposed to be more significant activity because it is so much more "simplified".  There is no way DISH would spring this on CSRs without advance notice and some training. You're quite correct that you're likely to get different answers from different CSRs that had the same training, but if I'm told Bronze will be called AT120, I'd tend to believe them. If I had ASKED if it would be called AT120 and just got a Yes, not so much.

DISH doesn't do a great job with communicating the pricing to customers at any time, but a few days after 1-Feb, the basics should appear at http://www.dishnetwork.com/2010. I'd be surprised if it included the info on short term credits available if you bill goes up $X that have been posted here. Kinda surprised that was even posted at all. I've no idea if it is correct, but it didn't look like something a poster just made up themselves.

I've got a 622 that isn't activated, but will be during the Olympics anyhow. Rather than getting mad (your advice to wait is good there!), I might try to work the system and make sure it is activated in case it is going to push me into a higher credit tier or get some multiple connected Duo bonus.


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## dolmar

Kent Taylor said:


> :rant:
> I'm never amazed at those who think that as a result of a price increase they are getting "screwed" or attribute it to "corporate greed". No one is holding a gun to your head and you're free to leave anytime.


Sorry I think you are overlooking 1 key point here on how Dish does stuff compared to most other companies. First off some of us have a contract and unlike direct tv and cable and fios, if you sign a contract with other TV providers while you are under contract your price will not change at all.

Dish choose to change prices on customers while they are under contract and I know this upfront when I signed up for Dish but because Dish tended to raise the prices by $1-3 a month 1x a year and because Dish was over $10 a month cheaper than my other opinions I choose to sign up with Dish. When I mentioned this to Dish both the installer and CSR that took my order from ATT, I was assured Dish increases are always modest. I personally don't consider a $12 increase which I am seeing this year to be modest when my bill used to $66.05 a month prior to this increase.

This increase in effect is really a bait and switch for many people who are still under contract. Why do I say that? Well Dish was pushing 222/721 for the last 2 years, telling people if you get them over 211/612 and keep them plug into the telephone line, you would not pay anymore for the better boxes over the cheaper boxes except for 1 time upgrade fee if you were subject to that fee even. Some people got upgraded boxes for free even cause Dish was out stock on signal tuner boxes because their was no price difference between the 2. Some people signed up with Dish because a 222/721 was able to be connected to 1 HD and 1SD tv at the same time without paying any extra fee over signal tuner box. Then Dish all of a sudden raises the prices on those boxes by over 200%, if you call Dish to complain about the receiver fee and request a downgrade to what would have been free boxes for many us they tell you that you got 3 choices pay us $100 upfront lease fee per box to swap boxes and agree to a new 2 year contract, pay the new fees or pay the ETF. So basically Dish is strong arming us into paying over 200% more for our old boxes because they changed their mind about allowing customers to either hook up boxes to 2nd tv for free or charging the same price for 222/721 as 211/612 and they did that while we were under contract and not allowing us to finish our contract at what we agree to pay or letting us out of our contract for free either but holding us hostage by holding the ETF over our head.

I know personally with this new increase Dish is no longer cheaper for me, and if these were the prices Dish was charging 2 years ago I would never have signed up for Dish either. I understand times changes and prices do too, back when I signed up for Dish ATT/Dish combo was cheaper than bundles that the cable company offered and ATT DSL was faster too, that is not the case anymore. In a time when most telco and cable companies are aggressively rolling out bundle options which Dish can not compete with Dish chooses to ram down a huge hardware increase making their service on par with cable ala cart pricing but more expensive than cable or telco bundles.


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## phrelin

Hmmmm. With all this activity it is fairly obvious that should Dish actually implement a rate increase in its worst configuration mentioned here, there will be much activity as customers "interact" with the customer service and administrative office folks.

If that happens, I will be forced to conclude that the new "in" corporate management style must have been based on the NBC model. You know, "if it works, tinker with it until you've screwed it up completely."


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## coldsteel

dolmar said:


> Sorry I think you are overlooking 1 key point here on how Dish does stuff compared to most other companies. First off some of us have a contract and unlike direct tv and cable and fios, if you sign a contract with other TV providers while you are under contract your price will not change at all.


Bull$#!t. Cable, D* and UVerse/FIOS WILL change pricing even if you're in a contract.


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## Kheldar

dolmar said:


> Sorry I think you are overlooking 1 key point here on how Dish does stuff compared to most other companies. First off some of us have a contract and unlike direct tv and cable and fios, if you sign a contract with other TV providers while you are under contract your price will not change at all.


That 2nd sentence is a bit confusing. If you mean that DirecTV and cable and FiOS don't change prices if you are under commitment, then I have to say: "Since when?"

DirecTV Customer Agreement, section 1(d):


> (d) *Our Programming Changes*. Many factors affect the availability, cost and quality of programming and may influence the decision to raise prices and the amount of any increase. These include, among others, programming and other costs, consumer demand, market and shareholder expectations, and changing business conditions. Accordingly, we must reserve the unrestricted right to change, rearrange, add or delete our programming packages, the selections in those packages, our prices, and any other Service we offer, at any time. We will endeavor to notify you of any change that is within our reasonable control and its effective date. In most cases this notice will be about one month in advance. You always have the right to cancel your Service, in whole or in part, if you do not accept the change (see Section 5). If you cancel your Service, a deactivation fee (described in Sections 2 & 5(b)) or other charges may apply. Credits, if any, to your account will be posted as described in Section 5. If you do not cancel, your continued receipt of our Service will constitute acceptance.


So DirecTV reserves the right to change their pricing, and if you do not accept it, you can cancel, but cancellation fees will apply if you are under commitment.

For Verizon FIOS (pdf), section 11(a):


> Rates for the Service and other charges may be changed by us
> at any time, subject to prior notice as required by applicable law. If we
> provide you with notice, it will be provided as set forth in Section 14
> below.


"Section 14" only talks about methods of notification (invoice, email, etc). 
So FIOS TV can raise their price at any time, also. They do not guarantee to even waive the ETF.

So no, DirecTV and Verizon do _not_ guarantee they won't change the price during a commitment period.

I know the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence, but in this case you are mistaken.


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## newsman

CABill said:


> There would be no price advantage to trading your 222 for a 211. Possible techincal advantage if you wanted to add an external drive. The full page ads in my local paper still say "FREE Service on Second TV" and that should still be true after 1-Feb (for ONE Duo receiver). If you had two 222s, you'd have a reason to trade one for a 211. The job market and economic situations might dictate a change, but your receiver combo shouldn't generate a price change.


So, it should be no price increase for me. Fingers crossed.


----------



## dolmar

Kheldar said:


> So no, DirecTV and Verizon do _not_ guarantee they won't change the price during a commitment period.


Hate to break it to you, But go read in any of the Direct TV forums or Fios Forums, While their contract may state that, I was with Direct TV for 10 years prior to switching to Dish and only switched to Dish cause when I was ready to upgrade to HD DVR Direct TV wanted $500 from me for 2 of them and Dish only wanted $150 and the monthly service was cheaper with Dish but in the 10 years I was with Direct TV they never raised my price 1x while I was under contract but increase my bill to current price once my contracted ended and when it did end I call up and complain I get some new promo rate for 2 years with a new 2 year contract. I am not only person who this happened too if you read in the any of the forums the same happens to everyone. Fios operates the same way they may have a right to raise your price but they choose not to do so until your contract is over then raise your bill to the current rate.

But I really dont give a ****, continue to defend Dish actions and stay with them forever for all I care. But pointing to contract that company does not follow and everyone knows they don't is kinda of stupid. They have stuff in the contract incase they stop offering a channel you like so you can not cancel service based on them dropping a channel or moving a channel from 1 package to another.


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## GrumpyBear

dolmar said:


> Hate to break it to you, But go read in any of the Direct TV forums or Fios Forums, While their contract may state that, I was with Direct TV for 10 years prior to switching to Dish and only switched to Dish cause when I was ready to upgrade to HD DVR Direct TV wanted $500 from me for 2 of them and Dish only wanted $150 and the monthly service was cheaper with Dish but in the 10 years I was with Direct TV they never raised my price 1x while I was under contract but increase my bill to current price once my contracted ended and when it did end I call up and complain I get some new promo rate for 2 years with a new 2 year contract. I am not only person who this happened too if you read in the any of the forums the same happens to everyone. Fios operates the same way they may have a right to raise your price but they choose not to do so until your contract is over then raise your bill to the current rate.
> 
> But I really dont give a ****, continue to defend Dish actions and stay with them forever for all I care. But pointing to contract that company does not follow and everyone knows they don't is kinda of stupid. They have stuff in the contract incase they stop offering a channel you like so you can not cancel service based on them dropping a channel or moving a channel from 1 package to another.


You need to go an read a few Direct TV forums yourself then, on this very website, just lookup last years posts. Direct Raises its price's yearly, and unless you a new customer that has a x price for x time type of deal, and thats usually only the 1st yr or 1st 6 months, on a 2yr commitment for the discounts. People, always get upset with Direct, Dish, Cable, FIOS, when they get off of the special price just intime for the yearly updated price, and it happens with ALL of them.
Direct Raises rates 1 month after Dish does. So if in 10yrs you never had a rate increase, Direct must have left you under a rock an skipped over you.


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## TulsaOK

GrumpyBear said:


> Direct must have left you under a rock an skipped over you.


Not exactly passing the smell test does it?


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## Kheldar

dolmar said:


> Hate to break it to you, But go read in any of the Direct TV forums or Fios Forums, While their contract may state that, I was with Direct TV for 10 years prior to switching to Dish and only switched to Dish cause when I was ready to upgrade to HD DVR Direct TV wanted $500 from me for 2 of them and Dish only wanted $150 and the monthly service was cheaper with Dish but in the 10 years I was with Direct TV they never raised my price 1x while I was under contract but increase my bill to current price once my contracted ended and when it did end I call up and complain I get some new promo rate for 2 years with a new 2 year contract. I am not only person who this happened too if you read in the any of the forums the same happens to everyone. Fios operates the same way they may have a right to raise your price but they choose not to do so until your contract is over then raise your bill to the current rate.
> 
> But I really dont give a ****, continue to defend Dish actions and stay with them forever for all I care. But pointing to contract that company does not follow and everyone knows they don't is kinda of stupid. They have stuff in the contract incase they stop offering a channel you like so you can not cancel service based on them dropping a channel or moving a channel from 1 package to another.


Dude, calm down.

Speaking from the point of view of a person that worked in DirecTV retention for almost 9 years, I spoke with hundreds of customers that were under the same mistaken idea you are.

Just because DirecTV protected contracted customers from price increases in the past does not guarantee they will do it again. The fact of the matter is you are telling people here that DirecTV and FIOS and others don't raise the price during a contract. While that may have been the case in the past, there is no guarantee that it will be that way in the future.

You said: "if you sign a contract with other TV providers while you are under contract your price will not change at all". You cannot guarantee this.

You say "But pointing to contract that company does not follow and everyone knows they don't is kinda of stupid". I say "Pointing to a legal contract and telling people to ignore it, just because the company hasn't enforced it in the past, is downright stupid." Again, just because they did it a certain way in the past doesn't mean they won't do it differently in the future.

And FYI, I never said I subscribed to DishNet. And I am not defending their actions. I'm just pointing out that you are giving information that may not be accurate. And DirecTV is raising prices on 2/9/2010 (albeit on programming, not equipment pricing).

So lay down, calm down, take a nap, and stop guaranteeing people that DirecTV and FiOS won't raise prices during a contract when they clearly reserve the right to do just that.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Kent Taylor said:


> Not exactly passing the smell test does it?


I can understand somebody being upset over a price increase if they think its too much, but sheesh, how about a little reallity. 
I 1st started reading this, an the posts about the extra fees and being a little jaded took(and still taking that approach) the wait and see approach. Only thing posted, has been about addtional recievers, and its just a reversal of 3 line items into 1 fee approach, which shows, anything from a 2.90 savings, to no change, and upto 2 dollars more. I end up actually saving money, in the overall scheme of things. 
It may be bad for some, and not for others, or there could still be tweaking that's going on, as NOTHING is ever final, until it gets put into place.


----------



## Kheldar

dolmar said:


> Hate to break it to you, But go read in any of the Direct TV forums or Fios Forums, While their contract may state that, I was with Direct TV for 10 years prior to switching to Dish and only switched to Dish cause when I was ready to upgrade to HD DVR Direct TV wanted $500 from me for 2 of them and Dish only wanted $150 and the monthly service was cheaper with Dish but in the 10 years I was with Direct TV they never raised my price 1x while I was under contract but increase my bill to current price once my contracted ended and when it did end I call up and complain I get some new promo rate for 2 years with a new 2 year contract. I am not only person who this happened too if you read in the any of the forums the same happens to everyone. Fios operates the same way they may have a right to raise your price but they choose not to do so until your contract is over then raise your bill to the current rate.
> 
> But I really dont give a ****, continue to defend Dish actions and stay with them forever for all I care. But pointing to contract that company does not follow and everyone knows they don't is kinda of stupid. They have stuff in the contract incase they stop offering a channel you like so you can not cancel service based on them dropping a channel or moving a channel from 1 package to another.





GrumpyBear said:


> So if in 10yrs you never had a rate increase, Direct must have left you under a rock an skipped over you.


In dolmar's defense (weird, considering my last post), he didn't say the price never increased. He said it never increased while he was under contract.

This still doesn't pass the smell test for several reasons. He claims to have received "some new promo rate for 2 years with a new 2 year contract" just for the asking. The _only_ two-year-long discount I remember in my 9 years with the company is the AAA new customer discount (24-month $10 discount), which was not available to existing customers.

And, in recent years, DirecTV has taken steps to avoid issuing promotions and credits to people that are constantly requesting discounts.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Kheldar said:


> In dolmar's defense (weird, considering my last post), he didn't say the price never increased. He said it never increased while he was under contract.
> 
> This still doesn't pass the smell test for several reasons. He claims to have received "some new promo rate for 2 years with a new 2 year contract" just for the asking. The _only_ two-year-long discount I remember in my 9 years with the company is the AAA new customer discount (24-month $10 discount), which was not available to existing customers.
> 
> And, in recent years, DirecTV has taken steps to avoid issuing promotions and credits to people that are constantly requesting discounts.


No not wierd, at all. Just hard to concieve, a 10yr period as discribed.


----------



## butters

I guess I will take the 'wait and see' approach before I get too excited about this. I have the Silver (or whatever it is now) package with two 322's so it looks like my bill will be going up from $58 to $68/month ($1 programming increase and $9 equipment fee). That does seem a bit steep (17%) since I have had these boxes for over 5 years. Anyway, I'll wait and see how this all plays out and way my options then.


----------



## dolmar

GrumpyBear said:


> You need to go an read a few Direct TV forums yourself then, on this very website, just lookup last years posts. Direct Raises its price's yearly, and unless you a new customer that has a x price for x time type of deal, and thats usually only the 1st yr or 1st 6 months, on a 2yr commitment for the discounts. People, always get upset with Direct, Dish, Cable, FIOS, when they get off of the special price just intime for the yearly updated price, and it happens with ALL of them.
> Direct Raises rates 1 month after Dish does. So if in 10yrs you never had a rate increase, Direct must have left you under a rock an skipped over you.


No that is not what I saying, What I said while I was under contract my price did not change, Lets say I signed up for Direct TV and my bill was $40 per month it never charged till month 25 even if their current price for new customers or month to month customers were $45 I continued to pay $40 per month till the end of my contract, then on month 25 Direct Tv raised my price whatever the current price say $50 per month, I would call Direct TV and complain and they would offer me a credit of say $5 per month for 24 months if I agree to a new 24 month contract, then for the next 24 months my price would not change again till month 25 where it would go up to whatever was the current pricing. And Fios operates the same way.

Yeah I know you going to say I had a contract etc always, I know i did but I did not care, as I did not plan on switching providers so stay with Direct Tv and paying the monthly price and getting no discount just seemed stupid to me.

You should go read those posts from last year, people who were in contracts because they renewed their contracts did not have price go up while they were in contract. Dish raises the price if you are in contract or month to month they don't care at all. That is a big difference because if you dont like the new price your only recourse with Dish and cancel and pay the ETF. Direct TV will let you stay at your contract price till your current contract is over then raise your price, if you dont like the new price you can then cancel with no ETF but you are not forced to pay for an increase you dont agree to like Dish does.


----------



## Kheldar

dolmar said:


> No that is not what I saying, What I said while I was under contract my price did not change, Lets say I signed up for Direct TV and my bill was $40 per month it never charged till month 25 even if their current price for new customers or month to month customers were $45 I continued to pay $40 per month till the end of my contract, then on month 25 Direct Tv raised my price whatever the current price say $50 per month, I would call Direct TV and complain and they would offer me a credit of say $5 per month for 24 months if I agree to a new 24 month contract, then for the next 24 months my price would not change again till month 25 where it would go up to whatever was the current pricing. And Fios operates the same way.


The only time the new customer discounts _ever_ exceeded 12 months was the AAA 24-month $10 discount offer. All of the other discounts were for a maximum of 12 months, at least during my 9 years with the company.

In my 9 years with the company, no such 24-month discount existed for existing customers. And under most circumstances, there was either no commitment extension required, or a 12-month commitment. The _only_ circumstance that a 24-month commitment was required involved equipment upgrades.



dolmar said:


> You should go read those posts from last year, people who were in contracts because they renewed their contracts did not have price go up while they were in contract. ... Direct TV will let you stay at your contract price till your current contract is over then raise your price, if you dont like the new price you can then cancel with no ETF but you are not forced to pay for an increase you dont agree to like Dish does.


Check out this thread, this thread, the actual 2008 price increase announcement from DirecTV's website, and many, many, many others.

These forums are full of posts from people complaining that their price was changed while they were under a commitment.

Again, you may have talked your way into repetitive discounts with DirecTV, but you should not guarantee this same opportunity for others.

Now, back to the whining about DishNet's price increase for 2010...


----------



## Link

Additional receiver fees will change as follows: 
Solo- $7 (+$2), 
Solo DVR - $10 (+$5), 
HD solo DVR- $10 (+$3), 
Duo- $14 (+$9), 
HD Duo- $14 (+$6), 
DuoDVR- $17 (+$12), 
HD DuoDVR- $17 (+$10). 
----------------------------------

I don't understand these fees for the DVR receivers. Right now I'm billed $12 ($7 receiver fee and $5 DVR fee) for an HD DuoDVR. Why will the price be increasing by $5 to $17? 

If the DVR fee is going to be $6 per account, then it should be removed from the receiver fee and be $7 + another $7 for the second tuner would =$14 Why would a Duo receiver with DVR be charged $3 more than without DVR if the DVR fee is already on the account?

Is the HD Solo DVR the 612? If so, it is only $10 and the 622/722 is $17, can I request to have my 722 changed out for a 612? We were given a 722 when we signed up for service (which is plugged into a phone line) but the second tuner is not used for another room so I really see no need paying an extra $7 a month for it.


----------



## coldsteel

You can request it, but I guarantee there'd be an upgrade charge.


----------



## Link

coldsteel said:


> You can request it, but I guarantee there'd be an upgrade charge.


A 612 is an upgrade from a 722? I thought the 722 was a higher model with larger storage capacity.


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## coldsteel

There'd be an 'upgrade' charge for any change of equipment.


----------



## nmetro

So, when is DISH Network going to inform their customers officially about the price increase? It is January 18th and the price increase occurs in less than two weeks. One would think they would come out with something that explains what they are doing. Or, are they waiting for thousands of people barraging the non-English speaking CSRs in India.


----------



## bnborg

coldsteel said:


> There'd be an 'upgrade' charge for any change of equipment.


Not if you are a preferred customer (longtime subscriber).

But you have to insist.


----------



## BobaBird

Link said:


> If the DVR fee is going to be $6 per account, then it should be removed from the receiver fee and be $7 + another $7 for the second tuner would =$14 Why would a Duo receiver with DVR be charged $3 more than without DVR if the DVR fee is already on the account?


Therein lies the lie. They're presenting it as $6/account to appear competitive with how the other guys bill DVR usage, but then the "one simple fee" for a DVR is $3 higher than for a non-DVR. So it's really $6 for the first DVR and $3 for each additional (if you look at all Solos as $7 and all Duos as $14). AEP subscribers, who have always had all DVR fees waived, will be seeing a big increase in this portion alone.

The other part of the "one simple fee" is the invented TV2 connection fee* which (and please tell me I've read this wrong) will no longer be waivable.

With AEP and 2 connected 622s, I think I'm looking at $16 for the receivers, offset by a $3 reduction in AEP, and likely offset even more by the elimination of 2 or 3 premiums.

* Yes, waiving the TV2 fee can be a savings when compared to other operators that require separate boxes. The thing is, Dish broke that model by making one box with one smartcard to drive 2 TVs. Less to manufacture and easier to install. Rather than pass that savings to all users, they found a way to keep charging some, and are now simplifying it by charging the full Solo receiver rate to the Duo's second output which isn't tying up any of their equipment.


----------



## Conway

You know if Dish was smart they would keep the DVR fee waived for the AEP that probably would be enough for people to consider upgrading.


----------



## CABill

BobaBird said:


> The other part of the "one simple fee" is the invented TV2 connection fee* which (and please tell me I've read this wrong) will no longer be waivable.
> 
> With AEP and 2 connected 622s, I think I'm looking at $16 for the receivers, offset by a $3 reduction in AEP, and likely offset even more by the elimination of 2 or 3 premiums.
> 
> * Yes, waiving the TV2 fee can be a savings when compared to other operators that require separate boxes. The thing is, Dish broke that model by making one box with one smartcard to drive 2 TVs. Less to manufacture and easier to install. Rather than pass that savings to all users, they found a way to keep charging some, and are now simplifying it by charging the full Solo receiver rate to the Duo's second output which isn't tying up any of their equipment.


Even with the simplification email sent to retailers, it isn't clear that you should do anything until you get a bill with an increase. *IF* I can get a 6 month credit based on the amount the bill increases, I'd want to reduce things after the credit starts. No guarantee they don't withdraw or reduce the credit when you reduce the bill, but it is worth a shot.

Getting the TV2 output of ONE Duo "free" with your programming package is still available, so that MIGHT qualify as waivable. But I don't understand DISH's wording here:


> Fees Related to Additional Receivers - Effective February 1, 2010, the fee structure related to additional receivers on new and existing customer accounts will change. Beginning February 1, 2010, a new Additional Receiver Fee will replace the current Additional Receiver Fee, TV2 Receiver Connection Fee and DVR Service Fee. As discussed above, for certain customers' accounts, each receiver activated beyond the first will no longer be subject to a TV2 Receiver Connection Fee. Additionally, the DVR Service Fee will no longer be associated with each DVR on a customer's account; instead a single "whole-home" DVR Service Fee will apply to the entire customer account.


What is needed so that *MY* account will no longer be subject to the TV2 Receiver Connection Fee? Or is it trying to say that someone with a Welcome pack (as long as they have it before it disappears on 1-Feb to new subs) may still have TV2 fees? "for certain customers' accounts" doesn't sound all that simplified to me. It did make it clear that NEW customers wouldn't be subject to the TV2 fee - but that leaves "certain existing customers" in limbo. I don't understand the email, but I don't see any way to read this except that the fee IS waiveable (or not applicable) to new subs:


> o TV2 Receiver Connection Fee
> -
> New Customers:
> ␣ Effective February 1, 2010, new customers will not be subject to the TV2 Receiver Connection Fee, but should still be encouraged to connect their receivers to a land-based phone line or broadband Internet connection to take advantage of certain receiver functionality including:


I'm more confused by this than I was by the rumors.


----------



## phrelin

CABill said:


> Even with the simplification email sent to retailers, it isn't clear that you should do anything until you get a bill with an increase. *IF* I can get a 6 month credit based on the amount the bill increases, I'd want to reduce things after the credit starts. No guarantee they don't withdraw or reduce the credit when you reduce the bill, but it is worth a shot.
> 
> Getting the TV2 output of ONE Duo "free" with your programming package is still available, so that MIGHT qualify as waivable. But I don't understand DISH's wording here:
> 
> What is needed so that *MY* account will no longer be subject to the TV2 Receiver Connection Fee? Or is it trying to say that someone with a Welcome pack (as long as they have it before it disappears on 1-Feb to new subs) may still have TV2 fees? "for certain customers' accounts" doesn't sound all that simplified to me. It did make it clear that NEW customers wouldn't be subject to the TV2 fee - but that leaves "certain existing customers" in limbo. I don't understand the email, but I don't see any way to read this except that the fee IS waiveable (or not applicable) to new subs:
> 
> I'm more confused by this than I was by the rumors.


!rolling

That's exactly the kind of language I would expect to see. Nobody knows what's going on as the rates were designed by committee and we now have a camel.

It is totally consistent with the fact that the web site clearly states the latest 3-months free HBO/Showtime Package is available to existing customers who haven't had it in the last six months but the CSRs are insisting the policy is a year (which it probably should have been).

I can't wait to see what my bill looks like and if I don't like it how many steps it will take before someone waives some fee that shouldn't have been instituted in the first place.:nono:


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## Shades228

I find it hard to believe they would increase prices in 12 days but not inform anyone. Even if they don't consider this a "price increase" changes of this magnitude would slam their CS without any notification prior to. I'm starting to wonder, not if it's going to happen, but if it's going to be for new customers only.


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## peano

The increases apply to both new and existing customers. Retailers received the email Jan. 18. CABill quotes sections of it.


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## peano

CABill said:


> I don't understand the email, but I don't see any way to read this except that the fee IS waiveable (or not applicable) to new subs:


Dish is saying there won't be a separate line item for TV2 connection anymore. They have built the $5 fee into the receiver fee. And now there is no credit for it if you have a phoneline hooked up.


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## newsman

peano said:


> Dish is saying there won't be a separate line item for TV2 connection anymore. They have built the $5 fee into the receiver fee. And now there is no credit for it if you have a phoneline hooked up.


So, as someone who has my 222 connected to the ethernet to avoid the fee, this will become moot. I pay $7 for the 211 in my bedroom, and now will pay an additional fee for the 222 in my living room. Great. Another fee to drive away customers.:sure:


----------



## phrelin

After reviewing the memo in detail, I think some things are clearing up for me:


> *"With DVR" Package (DishDVR Advantage) No Longer Available* - Effective February 1, 2010, the "with DVR" packages (formerly known as DishDVR Advantage) will no longer be available. Existing customers subscribing to the "with DVR" packages will be billed separately for each component of the "with DVR" package.
> *One DVR Service Fee Per Account* - Effective February 1st, customers will no longer be charged an individual $5.98 fee per DVR; instead customers with at least one DVR receiver activated on their account will be charged a single $6.00/mo. DVR Service Fee regardless of the number of DVRs they have activated.
> *Fees Related to Additional Receivers* - Effective February 1, 2010, the fee structure related to additional receivers on new and existing customer accounts will change. Beginning February 1, 2010, a new Additional Receiver Fee will replace the current Additional Receiver Fee, TV2 Receiver Connection Fee and DVR Service Fee. As discussed above, for certain customers' accounts, each receiver activated beyond the first will no longer be subject to a TV2 Receiver Connection Fee. Additionally, the DVR Service Fee will no longer be associated with each DVR on a customer's account; instead a single "whole-home" DVR Service Fee will apply to the entire customer account.


Then we have the defensive item that inevitably will result in confusion:


> *TV2 Receiver Connection Fee*
> 
> _New Customers_: Effective February 1, 2010, new customers will not be subject to the TV2 Receiver Connection Fee, but should still be encouraged to connect their receivers to a land-based phone line or broadband Internet connection to take advantage of certain receiver functionality including:
> Interactive TV (DishHOME Channel 100)
> DISH Remote Access Pay-Per-View (PPV)
> On Screen Caller ID​
> _Existing Customers_ - Effective February 1, 2010, we will change the structure of certain fees, including some that apply to existing customers.
> Some existing customer bills will go up, some will go down and some will remain the same.
> 
> On average, our customer price increases should be less than the customer price increases by most other pay-TV providers in the marketplace.
> 
> Please direct all customers with detailed billing questions to the following link: www.dishnetwork.com/2010updates (available on 2/1/10) or to call DISH at 1-800-333-DISH (3474).​


I guess they are being defensive because the old $5 month "programming access fee" or "TV2" fee or whatever it was called is being rolled into dual receiver fee and they know that's going to cause an uproar because it was waived automatically with a phone or internet connection. And it appears they a ready to deal with the complaints. Whether that will be to give "a valued customer" some kind of credit or just offer an explanation of the new fee structure, who knows.

They do have the market situation where the cable companies have significant charges for their boxes. One thing for certain, they figure that if customers really want the full on-demand options, they'll hook up to the internet. Why they decided to rename the packages back to the old name is a puzzle to me.


----------



## Skeeterman

Ok, I'll let the smart ones here figure my Februay 2010 bill.

I have a VIP211K cables to a Samsung HD TV. No phone line hook-up.
Also, in the den I have a PVR 508 cables to a standard analog TV. No phone hook-up.

I have Classic Gold 250 with locals...$62.99
Additional Gold HD channels... $10.00
I am charged for Solo DVR Reveiver. $5.0-
Total $77.99

Who wants to figure what my February bill will be?


----------



## peano

phrelin said:


> Whether that will be to give "a valued customer" some kind of credit or just offer an explanation of the new fee structure, who knows.


Maximum credit for complainers will be $6 for six months.

Once this huge receiver fee increase has been sheepishly accepted by the vast majority of subs (which it will be), it will pave the way for DirecTV to raise their fees accordingly to match Dish and cable.


----------



## GrumpyBear

peano said:


> Dish is saying there won't be a separate line item for TV2 connection anymore. They have built the $5 fee into the receiver fee. And now there is no credit for it if you have a phoneline hooked up.


Sounds like DISH, Dislikes the AEP. 
For those of us that have Gold/Silver/Bronze, change to whatever in a couple of weeks, seems like the overall fee's balance out, and the increase isn't that much more, I don't see it dropping for anybody, but the brunt of the Damage is AEP clients.

Dish is being very CREATIVE, with adding up the fee's though, to a single amount. I would love to have somebody on the next Charlie Chat have Charlie explain, how a additonal ViP622 prior to this was priced out at, Addtional Receiver fee=$7 TV2 connection fee=$5 and DVR Fee=5.98 for a total of $17.98, 
after 2-1-2010 
$17 even, when there is a Supposed drop of $5.98 DVR fee by going to a Single house DVR Fee!??!!??!?!
You go with a Single entire account DVR fee of $6, yet combine the old DVR FEE into the new price single price of the ViP622/722!?!?!?!?!?!?! So over all its really a $5.02 increase, not the .98 decrease they are claiming that it is.
This is diffently a favor I would prefer not to have.

U-Verse is still across the street, and still more expensive even if they do cross over.


----------



## butters

> For those of us that have Gold/Silver/Bronze, change to whatever in a couple of weeks, seems like the overall fee's balance out, and the increase isn't that much more, I don't see it dropping for anybody, *but the brunt of the Damage is AEP clients*.


I have the "Silver" package and two 322's. It looks like my bill is going up $10 per month, that's over a 17% increase. They certainly aren't losing any money on the equipment that I have had for over 5 years. It just seems like a rather large increase at least in my situation considering that I am not using expensive cutting edge receivers and subscribe to no extra packages. I can understand an increase but this seems like it will impact some customers much more than others.


----------



## GrumpyBear

butters said:


> I have the "Silver" package and two 322's. It looks like my bill is going up $10 per month, that's over a 17% increase. They certainly aren't losing any money on the equipment that I have had for over 5 years. It just seems like a rather large increase at least in my situation considering that I am not using expensive cutting edge receivers and subscribe to no extra packages. I can understand an increase but this seems like it will impact some customers much more than others.


How are you figuring the $10?


----------



## butters

The following packages will all increase by $1 as a result of this change:
Classic Bronze 100- $39.99,
Classic Bronze 100 Plus- $44.99,
*Classic Silver 200- $52.99,*
Classic Gold 250- $62.99,
DishLATINO Plus- $34.99,
DishLATINO Max w/DVR- $58.99.

Additional receiver fees will change as follows:
Solo- $7 (+$2),
Solo DVR - $10 (+$5),
HD solo DVR- $10 (+$3),
*Duo- $14 (+$9),*
HD Duo- $14 (+$6),
DuoDVR- $17 (+$12),
HD DuoDVR- $17 (+$10).

I'll admit I am a little confused by all the posts and I could be wrong but from what I can tell it looks like a $10 increase to me. Of course I won't know for sure until I see the bill.


----------



## CABill

Skeeterman said:


> I am charged for Solo DVR Reveiver. $5.0-
> 
> Who wants to figure what my February bill will be?


I figure you should wait until they generate your first bill after 1-Feb. My best *GUESS* is that your bill will go up by $2. The 508 started life as a PVR (even said that on the remote) and that *SHOULD* make you not be liable for any DVR fee. If you are anxious to find out before they generate a bill, you could always make some other change. That seems to always generate "Recent Activity" with a credit and a charge of the same amount. If you do that after 1-Feb, the charge portions will be prorated based on then current fees. Waiting for a bill makes more sense, as it is about 17 days before the billing period starts - gives you lots of time before any new rate applies.

If our 508s continue to be listed on our bills as
Solo DVR Receiver
but a $7 fee, I wonder what a 510 (or the new 512?) will be listed as for a $10 fee and trigger the $6 DVR. All we know is that it will be simpler.


----------



## GrumpyBear

butters said:


> The following packages will all increase by $1 as a result of this change:
> Classic Bronze 100- $39.99,
> Classic Bronze 100 Plus- $44.99,
> *Classic Silver 200- $52.99,*
> Classic Gold 250- $62.99,
> DishLATINO Plus- $34.99,
> DishLATINO Max w/DVR- $58.99.
> 
> Additional receiver fees will change as follows:
> Solo- $7 (+$2),
> Solo DVR - $10 (+$5),
> HD solo DVR- $10 (+$3),
> *Duo- $14 (+$9),*
> HD Duo- $14 (+$6),
> DuoDVR- $17 (+$12),
> HD DuoDVR- $17 (+$10).
> 
> I'll admit I am a little confused by all the posts and I could be wrong but from what I can tell it looks like a $10 increase to me. Of course I won't know for sure until I see the bill.


Your right about having to wait to make sure. Was wondering on your current bill are both your 322's free? 322 should be $10 now and and $14 later.
I was looking at my Parents Bill
$62.99 classicgold with Locals
$ 5.00 Solo DVR(they have a 510d)
$11.96 Dish Network DVR Service fee(for 722 is Primary Reciever and 510)
$10.00 HD+Platinum(Granted last yr, this combo was $15)
$22.00 HBO/Showtime
111.95 before tax's

2-1-2010
$68.99 Top250 Locals W/DVR fee
$10.00 Solo DVR(+$5, even though there is a single home DVR Fee?!?!?!)
$10.00 HD+Platinum
$22.00 HBO/Showtime
110.99 Before Tax's

Will work on mine, it gets confusing, as I have a credit loyalty credit, as well as a parttime ViP 612.


----------



## CABill

butters said:


> I'll admit I am a little confused by all the posts and I could be wrong but from what I can tell it looks like a $10 increase to me. Of course I won't know for sure until I see the bill.


You have taken some things out of context. It won't make a lot of difference, but "as a result of this change" means that people whose bill had included a $5 DVR fee with their programming will now be charged $6 as a DVR fee. That is a net $1 increase, not a change in programming price. With two 322s, there is no DVR fee so you don't change the price of the 200 package from what you now pay. The $14 Duo @ $14 is a $9 increase for an SD Duo but only a $7 increase for an HD Duo.

For any additional DVR, you can't post a single price for how much of a total increase that will be. What people currently pay for a DVR fee is $0 (AEP), $5 ("with DVR" - aka DVR Advantage), or $5.98. The prices you posted for Addl Rec fees cover the change from $5 or $7 per addl receiver today, but HD Duo looks like a typo - $7??

Waiting until you get billed is best, but your $10 guess is at least a buck too much. There is also the POSSIBILITY (not confirmed) of some short term credit for someone whose bill goes up by $9/month. Time will tell.


----------



## butters

After re-reading the posts it looks like the $1 programming fee may not apply to me as you say, however so far it looks like a $9 increase is headed my way. I'll know next month I guess.



> Your right about having to wait to make sure. Was wondering on your current bill are both your 322's free? 322 should be $10 now and and $14 later.


I pay $5 for the second 322 so it looks like it may be going to $14 (+$9).


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## CABill

GrumpyBear said:


> 322 should be $10 now and and $14 later.


A 322 should only be $5 now, unless you pay another $5 because the Duo isn't connected. A 222 should be $7 now, just like a 211 - unless you currently pay the Phone fee / TV2 fee / whatever it shows up as on a bill. I only see "congrats, you saved $5". Comparing "Additional Receiver" fees, everything in his chart should be 1-Feb prices less $5 (SD) or $7 (HD). TV2 stuff is ...


----------



## butters

CABill is correct. Second 322 is $10 *only *if the box isn't connected to a phone line. Mine is so currently I only pay $5.


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## GrumpyBear

butters said:


> CABill is correct. Second 322 is $10 *only *if the box isn't connected to a phone line. Mine is so currently I only pay $5.


Thats what I was wondering about. Not everybody has a phoneline connected and I meant to ask you in the other post.


----------



## GrumpyBear

One thing for sure, making sure which Reciever is Primary, and adding Addtional recievers my require a little more thought. Adding ViP612's or 211's vs other recievers can save you some money, depending on how many. 211 with EHD=$7 dollars, granted you have to factor in $40 for activation and the extra for the drive, to figure in on the ROI value.


----------



## peano

butters said:


> I pay $5 for the second 322 so it looks like it may be going to $14 (+$9).


Correct.


----------



## JackDobiash

Wow, I think I'm about to get bent over, might have to drop some programming 

I guess I'll have to wait and see what 'credits' they offer for the next 6 months. Probably will have to drop the programming at that point if it stays the same though.


----------



## VDP07

Skeeterman said:


> Ok, I'll let the smart ones here figure my Februay 2010 bill.
> 
> I have a VIP211K cables to a Samsung HD TV. No phone line hook-up.
> Also, in the den I have a PVR 508 cables to a standard analog TV. No phone hook-up.
> 
> I have Classic Gold 250 with locals...$62.99
> Additional Gold HD channels... $10.00
> I am charged for Solo DVR Reveiver. $5.0-
> Total $77.99
> 
> Who wants to figure what my February bill will be?


No change in the price for the 211 and I have never paid a DVR fee on my 508. You are 1 of the lucky ones, your bill should not change at all after 2/1/10.


----------



## GrumpyBear

JackDobiash said:


> Wow, I think I'm about to get bent over, might have to drop some programming
> 
> I guess I'll have to wait and see what 'credits' they offer for the next 6 months. Probably will have to drop the programming at that point if it stays the same though.


well if you have just the 2 ViP's, looks like this???
$105.99 AEP locals w/DVR(ViP 622 or Vip722 primary wont make a difference)
$ 10.00 HD+Platinum
$ 17.00 Vip HD DuoDVR
total $132.99 add your tax's

Those with LOTS of Recievers that had a phoneline or ethernet connection, are going to get soaked. Earlier I was just thinking of the AEP with lots of DVR's, getting soaked, as they were used to several waived fee's.

Granted those with multiple Recievers and DVR's should be rewarded some way, considering the investment to get over the 4 leased tuners issue with Dish. Just add one more or even 2 more ViP DVR's on a AEP user used to waived fee's, and the price climbs. Dish just doesn't want users to have more than 4 tuners?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Well not as good as I thought, but not that bad
Currently
$62.99 Classicgold 250 with locals
$11.96 DVR Fees(Vip 622 and Vip 722, both phoneline and networked)
$10.00 HD+Platinum
$22.00 HBO-Showtime(currently free) but looks like we are keeping it.
$ 7.00 Fee ViP722
total $113.95
Now in the fall I have a 612 I activate for 3-4 months
$62.99 Classicgold 250 with locals
$17.94 DVR Fees(Vip 622 and Vip 722, ViP612(just Phoneline) phoneline and networked)
$10.00 HD+Platinum
$22.00 HBO-Showtime(currently free) but looks like we are keeping it.
$ 7.00 Fee ViP722
$ 7.00 Fee ViP612
$ 5.99 Multisports package
total 132.92

2-1-2010
$68.99 Top250 local w/dvr
$10.00 HD+Platinum
$22.00 HBO+Showtime
$17.00 ViP622
Total $117.99 equals a $$ 4 increase

Now in the fall though
its 132.98 which is a .06 increase.

Both are still cheaper than last yr, factoring in the $5 saving of not having to pay for Platinum.


----------



## James Long

VDP07 said:


> No change in the price for the 211 and I have never paid a DVR fee on my 508. You are 1 of the lucky ones, your bill should not change at all after 2/1/10.


The extra receiver fee will be $7 regardless of HD or SD, so that should account for a $2 increase.


----------



## GrumpyBear

James Long said:


> The extra receiver fee will be $7 regardless of HD or SD, so that should account for a $2 increase.


That is the sad thing, cheapest reciever fee is $7, and the idea that a 508 is just $3 cheaper than a ViP612 is kind of SAD.


----------



## CABill

GrumpyBear said:


> 2-1-2010
> $68.99 Top250 local w/dvr
> $10.00 HD+Platinum
> $22.00 HBO+Showtime
> $17.00 ViP622
> Total $117.99 equals a $$ 4 increase
> 
> Now in the fall though
> its 132.98 which is a .06 increase.
> 
> Both are still cheaper than last yr, factoring in the $5 saving of not having to pay for Platinum.


A lot of people with your current programming and equipment pay $1.96 less for the two DVRs. I don't recall the things to click on once you are logged in, but either a 24 month commit or agreeing to AutoPay / Paperless billing should make each DVR be $5 now, or a year ago. That goes poof on 1-Feb, but it would allow your increase to be $1.96 more if there really is some credit for some people based on the $ increase. If you activate the 612 under that plan, it appears as a $12 line item for the receiver and DVR fee together. Since that goes down to $10 on 1-Feb, it wouldn't help to make your "increase" more. I activate-deactivate a 622 as needed and that *MIGHT* be worth activating to make any credit more.

I think your Fall price should be a buck more. If you add a $10 rec and $5.99 sports, the total should increase by $6 (less a penny) to $133.98. Last year, it was a $6 fee for the DVR and this year it will be the kinda hidden $3 DVR fee buried in the Rec fee, and the fact that it doesn't have its own receiver DVR fee.


----------



## GrumpyBear

CABill said:


> A lot of people with your current programming and equipment pay $1.96 less for the two DVRs. I don't recall the things to click on once you are logged in, but either a 24 month commit or agreeing to AutoPay / Paperless billing should make each DVR be $5 now, or a year ago. That goes poof on 1-Feb, but it would allow your increase to be $1.96 more if there really is some credit for some people based on the $ increase. If you activate the 612 under that plan, it appears as a $12 line item for the receiver and DVR fee together. Since that goes down to $10 on 1-Feb, it wouldn't help to make your "increase" more. I activate-deactivate a 622 as needed and that *MIGHT* be worth activating to make any credit more.
> 
> I think your Fall price should be a buck more. If you add a $10 rec and $5.99 sports, the total should increase by $6 (less a penny) to $133.98. Last year, it was a $6 fee for the DVR and this year it will be the kinda hidden $3 DVR fee buried in the Rec fee, and the fact that it doesn't have its own receiver DVR fee.


This is all best case guess. My Bill goes up, not as bad, as it could be, not great, but still cheaper than some alternatives. Not sure why I was already paying an extra $1.96 but it wont go poof on me, as I already wasn't getting it. I still have 3 months left on my Loyality discount, for Feb, Mar, Apr. So my bill will be slightly less.

My only issue with the hidden fee's, is the double dip on the 5.98 DVR Fee. They are "DOING" us a Favor and having a single home DVR Fee, no matter how many DVR's you have, that sounds GREAT, but then they add in the 5.98, plus or minus a a dollar or two, into every single DVR on your account, so they orignal $5.98 fee is still attached to ALL DVR's, and then they add the Single home DVR fee $6.00 on top of it all. If they want to make these kind of changes, then I should get the $6-$7 credit on my OWNED, 612 as there shouldn't be a fee on that one, under this NEW arrangement. 
I am not jumping ship, not getting on a soapbox, screaming how unfair. 
I am still frustrated though with the removal of phoneline discount, adding the home DVR fee, and then hiding the original DVR fee, into the Single unit charge for each DVR. Fine do all that, but then give credit back for owned equipment then.


----------



## VDP07

James Long said:


> The extra receiver fee will be $7 regardless of HD or SD, so that should account for a $2 increase.


You are indeed correct James. $2.00 bump. Still not bad compared to similar alternatives.

On a side note. I think that there needs to be some concessions made for existing customers within their new customer commitment periods. I for one, have dozens of customers in their first year of service with a 625/322 setup, phone lines connected. I'm thinking the $10.00 jump on these customers accounts is going to keep me busy for a while even if I refer them to Dish Network for an explanation.


----------



## deaincaelo

Any price increase definitely sucks. I can see, however, how getting rid of the tv2 connection fee makes sense from a business perspective. It seems like it's regarded as a "bogus charge" even though everyone charges for extra rooms. Somebody in management probably figured out that they're spending a lot of money in additional outlet fees and it's just pissing off the customers. 

Not saying that they're not being a greedy corporation too. They could have kept the discounts. I'm just saying I'm not certain i wouldn't take the money if I was going to be accused of nickle and diming anyway. now, for some math.

figure the average customer has 1 two room dvr and 1 two room non dvr. (this i based on what they get free with the promotions.)The dvr is going up $.02 and the other one is going up $9. for $9.02 increase. total fees are $6 (acct lvl) dvr and $14 for the receiver for $20. With Direct that would be $7 account level, and $15 (3x5) for the 4 rooms- total $22. Since the second tv on the first receiver is included the customers with fewer rooms will make out compared to Direct, which I think they're counting on.


----------



## phrelin

From what I have determined based on *this thread*:
Many will see an increase in their Dish bill beginning in February based on increases in "additional" receiver/dvr charges, but some may not.
The rates seemed designed to say old MPEG2-only receivers/DVRs will pay the same as newer MPEG4-enabled receivers.
It may be possible to get a $6 per month credit for a few months if you are "a valued customer" if you're willing to run through the CSR gauntlet and probably hear some kind of explanation that may or may not suggest upgrades.
What I think I have learned from *other threads* is that Echostar/Sling/Dish Network may _soon_ have a system available that would create an HD feed throughout your home using the second receiver (?) in the 722k and maybe other ViP's (?) which could be received by an unlimited number of TV's and computers through your home network and the internet (the latter if you have a sufficiently speedy ISP connection).

So do I see a hamfisted change in Charlie's technological emphasis here? Or am I just my normal paranoid self? Or both?:grin:


----------



## bajabill

as a longtime Dishnet customer (8 years in march) I am leaving them for cable. I do not get HD service from my Dish and want to add it now. I just bought my 2nd HDtv, and the equipment and programming costs are going to be about $20-$25 more than I pay now. I already get my telephone and internet via the cable company, so I am able to bundle those with HD television service for $10 a month price decrease compared to my current setup fees. So, I am getting a net decrease of over 30/month. And that was before next months increases.

Also, I am needing additional room requirements and the cable makes more sense for that (may have 7 TVs spread about the house). I have been very happy with my Dish service, especially the DVRs over the years but I am going to try something else for at least a year. Im sure, as a returning customer, in a year, dish will be offering much better deals than they do for existing customers also should I want to return.


----------



## TulsaOK

Was there something with which you needed help?


----------



## phrelin

bajabill said:


> as a longtime Dishnet customer (8 years in march) I am leaving them for cable. I do not get HD service from my Dish and want to add it now. I just bought my 2nd HDtv, and the equipment and programming costs are going to be about $20-$25 more than I pay now. I already get my telephone and internet via the cable company, so I am able to bundle those with HD television service for $10 a month price decrease compared to my current setup fees. So, I am getting a net decrease of over 30/month. And that was before next months increases.
> 
> Also, I am needing additional room requirements and the cable makes more sense for that (may have 7 TVs spread about the house). I have been very happy with my Dish service, especially the DVRs over the years but I am going to try something else for at least a year. Im sure, as a returning customer, in a year, dish will be offering much better deals than they do for existing customers also should I want to return.


I always say that if cable or a telecom or DirecTV can come closer to meeting your TV service needs than Dish Network or one offers a package that is significantly cheaper without significant loss of desired services, why would one not change.

Everyone has a different situation. We have the following self-managed package:

Land Line Phone - $12 per month
Long Distance - $1 a month average
Cell Phones (2) - $30 a month
Cable Internet - $58 a month
Satellite TV - $110 a month January bill

That's $211 a month. Every so often it seems high to me until I run a hypothetical package through Comcast in places they offer full services.

In Marin County where my granddaughter lives about 100 miles south, Comcast would give me everything but cell phones for $190 a month but with a different HD lineup with fewer HD channels but more local HD channels and only one HD DVR while with Dish I have a 722 and a 612 which equals four recorders. When I add the cell phones back in it ends up totalling $220 a month or $9 more than what I pay.

It appears Uverse would be slightly cheaper in the few places its available, but it's so confusing and service complaints seem to be significant.

So I won't be too upset with a rate increase.


----------



## scooper

Of course you are absolutely correct - shop for the package that gets you YOUR desired services for the minimum amount per month. We do the analyzing about every month and we still haven't changed (well - we downgraded our Dish Programming and dropped the DVR 625 and went back to our original 4900, but that was for other reasons). 

Phoneline / DSL charges - $65 / month bundle
Dish Classic Bronze, 1 non-DVR receiver
Long distance is off a MinutePass calling card (hard to beat $.02 / minute) - not that we do that much
and Cell service is 2 Virgin Mobile phones. Ironic how $.20/minute on a pay as you go plan actually can work out cheaper depending on how you use it.


----------



## GrumpyBear

I always like to window shop as well, just to see the what if's.
U-Verse bundle could be cheaper down the road and faster than current DSL, but it has to cross the street 1st.
Cox Cable bundle is way more, than Dish, ATT Cell+DSL bundle and Vonage. Was really shocked by the Cox bundle price, helped a friend setup service a couple of weeks ago, shocked by the price, kept asking were the savings was, and almost pulled out my beard, and the crappy Scientific Atlanat DVR, that doesn't support HDMI, even though they tell you to buy the HDMI cable. Go on the website and you find out certain models of the SA DVR's don't support HDMI, through its built in HDMI port, how crazy is that.

I could see NOT being able to get HD as a deal breaker, and if I couldn't get it, or if there were alot of missing HD content channels I would be leaving too. Price increase of $4-$6 here, so its not the end of the world, I could except the increase easier if it wasn't for the Home DVR fee and yet they sneak in the DVR fee in the single unit price anyways, price stays down, its just the gall factor. Still not much more than last yr considering the $5 drop for Platinum channels.
Phrelin brings up an insteresting point with all these changes and how this sets up the Slingbox addon's and the ViP922.


----------



## JackDobiash

GrumpyBear said:


> well if you have just the 2 ViP's, looks like this???
> $105.99 AEP locals w/DVR(ViP 622 or Vip722 primary wont make a difference)
> $ 10.00 HD+Platinum
> $ 17.00 Vip HD DuoDVR
> total $132.99 add your tax's
> 
> Those with LOTS of Recievers that had a phoneline or ethernet connection, are going to get soaked. Earlier I was just thinking of the AEP with lots of DVR's, getting soaked, as they were used to several waived fee's.
> 
> Granted those with multiple Recievers and DVR's should be rewarded some way, considering the investment to get over the 4 leased tuners issue with Dish. Just add one more or even 2 more ViP DVR's on a AEP user used to waived fee's, and the price climbs. Dish just doesn't want users to have more than 4 tuners?


Hm.. I guess it all depends on if they get rid of my HD Platinum charge. I'm still paying $10 for Gold + $10 for Platinum under the current system. If they do change it to the new one for all customers then at least long time HD users will be helped a bit. The pricing you show is only $3 more than I'm paying now so at least that's not as bad as I had feared. If HD Plat is still on there then it will be +$13.


----------



## GrumpyBear

JackDobiash said:


> Hm.. I guess it all depends on if they get rid of my HD Platinum charge. I'm still paying $10 for Gold + $10 for Platinum under the current system. If they do change it to the new one for all customers then at least long time HD users will be helped a bit. The pricing you show is only $3 more than I'm paying now so at least that's not as bad as I had feared. If HD Plat is still on there then it will be +$13.


You should be able to get the HD Platinum for Free now.
go online chat or go online drop it and then add it, only thing they can add back is the HD+Platnum for one price.


----------



## phrelin

JackDobiash said:


> Hm.. I guess it all depends on if they get rid of my HD Platinum charge. I'm still paying $10 for Gold + $10 for Platinum under the current system. If they do change it to the new one for all customers then at least long time HD users will be helped a bit. The pricing you show is only $3 more than I'm paying now so at least that's not as bad as I had feared. If HD Plat is still on there then it will be +$13.


You shouldn't be paying for the Platinum right now. It most certainly shouldn't be on your new bill.


----------



## JackDobiash

Unfortunatly that means my bill definately will be going up by $13 then ($7 to $17 on the second receiver and +$3 on the AEP). Removing the HD Plat and adding it back on will incur a $5 charge though won't it? I'll probably 
just wait for the next billing cycle if they will remove it then.


----------



## GrumpyBear

JackDobiash said:


> Unfortunatly that means my bill definately will be going up by $13 then ($7 to $17 on the second receiver and +$3 on the AEP). Removing the HD Plat and adding it back on will incur a $5 charge though won't it? I'll probably
> just wait for the next billing cycle if they will remove it then.


Use the chat and they wont charge you the fee.


----------



## MadScientist

This is my bill. I called about the HD Platinum. It looks as if they did not have it removed when I last called or is this a different charge? 

Service Date(s) Detailed Activity
Previous Balance $ 122.00
Dec 03 Payment - Thank You -122.00
$ 0.00
Monthly Charges
Jan 07 - Feb 06 DISH Network DVR Service Fee 0.00
America's Everything Pak With Locals 102.98
HD & Platinum 10.00
$ 112.98
Taxes
Dec 22 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 9.02
Total: 122.00


----------



## phrelin

MadScientist said:


> This is my bill. I called about the HD Platinum. It looks as if they did not have it removed when I last called or is this a different charge?
> 
> Service Date(s) Detailed Activity
> Previous Balance $ 122.00
> Dec 03 Payment - Thank You -122.00
> $ 0.00
> Monthly Charges
> Jan 07 - Feb 06 DISH Network DVR Service Fee 0.00
> America's Everything Pak With Locals 102.98
> HD & Platinum 10.00
> $ 112.98
> Taxes
> Dec 22 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 9.02
> Total: 122.00


HD used to be $10 and Platinum used to be a separate $10 for a total of $20 in extra charges. Now its combined as indicatd on your bill and it looks like they did change your account.


----------



## MadScientist

Thank you!

After I posted my bill I opened a chat with Dish Network, I asked about the new increase and he said he has no information on that, but he said we would receive a letter talking about the new increase. I find it funny for him to say he as no information, but with the same breath to say that a letter is being mailed to let us know about this increase. 

Why don’t they want us to know? Are they concern that people will call and cancel?


----------



## fryguy503

phrelin said:


> You shouldn't be paying for the Platinum right now. It most certainly shouldn't be on your new bill.


The Platinum is still charged and will still be charged seperatly if you dont call in to adjust it. Ask the rep to bundle it, if they wont then just drop HD and complain about the $5 downgrade. Once he gets that saved, say, whoops I ment to keep that, please add the HD back or call back to re-add it.

Problem solved.


----------



## fryguy503

MadScientist said:


> Thank you!
> 
> After I posted my bill I opened a chat with Dish Network, I asked about the new increase and he said he has no information on that, but he said we would receive a letter talking about the new increase. I find it funny for him to say he as no information, but with the same breath to say that a letter is being mailed to let us know about this increase.
> 
> Why don't they want us to know? Are they concern that people will call and cancel?


As of right now, CSR/TSR are not allowed to discuss any infromation on the change because as internal dish motto goes, "Everything is subject to change" and with the pushback things may change between now and 2/1 - Will it change? Doubt it, but its possible. I can tell you that every single csr/tsr and retailers/installers have all been trained on the upcoming changes, alot of questions are still floating around tho.


----------



## GrumpyBear

MadScientist said:


> Thank you!
> 
> After I posted my bill I opened a chat with Dish Network, I asked about the new increase and he said he has no information on that, but he said we would receive a letter talking about the new increase. I find it funny for him to say he as no information, but with the same breath to say that a letter is being mailed to let us know about this increase.
> 
> Why don't they want us to know? Are they concern that people will call and cancel?


Its common for any business, for frontline people not being able to say something on an issue that is still weeks out and "UNOFFICAL" as it isn't "OFFICAL" until 2-1-2010.


----------



## P Smith

Now it is official - from a bill:


> Important Information Help
> Effective February 1, 2010
> Please note the following programming and monthly rate changes for AT&T
> | DISH Network Service:
> 
> America's "Everything" PAK repriced to $99.99* (+$2.01); America's
> "Everything" PAK customers without locals availability will be moved to
> America's Top 250 & 4-pay premium packages priced at $97.99; the DVR
> service fee ($6) will no longer be waived for America's "Everything"
> PAK customers. TurboHD Bronze with locals renamed to DISH America and
> repriced to $29.99 (-$5); TurboHD Silver with locals renamed DISH
> America Silver and repriced to $49.99 (-$5); TurboHD Gold with locals
> renamed DISH America Gold and repriced to $49.99 (-$5). Customers with
> one or more DVR receivers will be billed a single $6/month fee instead
> of a per receiver fee. Customers who currently subscribe to a "w/DVR"
> package will no longer see a bundled price point; bill will reflect
> package price and $6/mo DVR fee as explained above. The following
> packages will all increase by $1 as a result of this change: Classic
> Bronze 100- $39.99, Classic Bronze 100 Plus- $44.99, Classic Silver
> 200- $52.99, Classic Gold 250- $62.99, DishLATINO Plus- $34.99,
> DishLATINO Max w/DVR- $58.99. The following packages are also affected
> by this change: DishLatino Classico- $35.99 (+$.02), DishLATINO DOS
> w/DVR- $45.99 (-$2). Existing non-DVR package customers with more than
> one dual tuner receiver not connected to a phone line or broadband
> connection will pay $5/month for each dual tuner receiver after the
> first. The following price changes will also apply: DishLATINO DOS-
> $39.99* (-$3), Arabic Music Pak- $9.99 (+$3), Filipino Viva Pinov-
> $14.99 (+$3), French RFI- $1.99 (+$.99), Greek Value Pack- $34.99
> (+$2), Greek Antenna Package- $24.99 (+$2), Polish TV Silesia Plus
> RADIO Silesia- $4.99 (-$1), Portuguese RTPI- $4.99 (+$.99), Taiwan Sky
> Link- $4.99 (-$1), Hindi B4U- $4.99 (+$2), Urdu QTV- $9.99 (+$2), Greek
> Elite Pack- $34.99 (+$2), Russian Mega Pack- $34.99 (+$2), Pak Mega
> Pack- $44.99 (+$5), Tamil Mega Pack- $29.99 (+$5). Additional receiver
> fees will change as follows: Solo- $7 (+$2), Solo DVR - $10 (+$5), HD
> solo DVR- $10 (+$3), Duo- $14 (+$9), HD Duo- $14(+$6), DuoDVR- $17
> (+$12), HD DuoDVR- $17 (+$10). Other name changes: Classic Bronze
> renamed America's Top 120; Classic Bronze 100 Plus renamed America's
> Top 120 Plus; Classic Silver 200 renamed America's Top 200; Classic
> Gold 250 renamed America's Top 250.
> 
> *Prices do not include locals; $6/mo more with locals
> THANK YOU FOR CHOOSING AT&T | DISH NETWORK
> For AT&T | DISH Network Billing, Programming and Technical Questions,
> please call 1.866.722.7500


----------



## coldsteel

Well, that's strange, locals are only $5 more, not $6 more.


----------



## P Smith

I did c&p - perhaps LiL price increased too.


----------



## coldsteel

No, they're staying $5 when combined with a package. They are $6 when not with a qualifying package.


----------



## TulsaOK

Isn't that bill from AT&T?


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## P Smith

Yes, but all that numbers passed from dish directly without any change by AT&T.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Hmm... It's an AT&T bill, and it says nothing about changes in fee structure for additional receivers.


----------



## jsfisher

My Dish bill now online for February 7 through March 6 does not show any of the increases talked about here. My solo receiver fees are still $5.00 and Classic Gold 250, $57.99.


----------



## BillJ

Still tells me nothing. I'll wait for a bill in February. Since I'm now paying $10 less than a year ago due to elimination of HD Platium fee during the summer, I may not be that bad off.

I still think DISH should send existing customers an announcement before Feb. 1 which compares the specific customer's old and new charges. Guess that would be way too customer friendly for them.


----------



## phrelin

BillJ said:


> I still think DISH should send existing customers an announcement before Feb. 1 which compares the specific customer's old and new charges. Guess that would be way too customer friendly for them.


Not to mention they are greatly prone to conforming to Murphy's Law and probably would screw it up.


----------



## gqmagtutgic

There are about 20 unofficial official increase threads here and there :lol:, 

in other words nothing is official yet :nono2:


----------



## P Smith

gqmagtutgic said:


> ...
> 
> in other words nothing is official yet :nono2:


Untrue.

I posted c&p from OFFICIAL bill.


----------



## Jim5506

Obvious typo - TurboHD Silver and TurboHD Gold listed at the same price - $49.99.

This appears to be just a reprint of what was already posted with the attendant errors.


----------



## Paul Secic

GrumpyBear said:


> That is the sad thing, cheapest reciever fee is $7, and the idea that a 508 is just $3 cheaper than a ViP612 is kind of SAD.


I'm still staying.. AT&T was a disaster, I can't use Comcast's boxes.


----------



## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> I always say that if cable or a telecom or DirecTV can come closer to meeting your TV service needs than Dish Network or one offers a package that is significantly cheaper without significant loss of desired services, why would one not change.
> 
> Everyone has a different situation. We have the following self-managed package:
> 
> Land Line Phone - $12 per month
> Long Distance - $1 a month average
> Cell Phones (2) - $30 a month
> Cable Internet - $58 a month
> Satellite TV - $110 a month January bill
> 
> That's $211 a month. Every so often it seems high to me until I run a hypothetical package through Comcast in places they offer full services.
> 
> In Marin County where my granddaughter lives about 100 miles south, Comcast would give me everything but cell phones for $190 a month but with a different HD lineup with fewer HD channels but more local HD channels and only one HD DVR while with Dish I have a 722 and a 612 which equals four recorders. When I add the cell phones back in it ends up totalling $220 a month or $9 more than what I pay.
> 
> It appears Uverse would be slightly cheaper in the few places its available, but it's so confusing and service complaints seem to be significant.
> 
> So I won't be too upset with a rate increase.


But Uverse uses cheap Motorola boxes. You know the saga I went though.


----------



## phrelin

Paul Secic said:


> But Uverse uses cheap Motorola boxes. You know the saga I went though.


I'd never recommend Uverse to friends or family right now. While some appear happy, what I read tells me folks are having problems along the lines of when Dish comes up with a new box that was beta tested by techies instead of a single moms with four kids none of whom a particularly adept on a computer.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Previous Balance $ 89.70
Jan 01 Credit Card Payment -89.70
$ 0.00

One Time Charges

Jan 04 Transaction Fee 5.00
Monthly Charges
Jan 26 - Feb 25 Classic Gold 250 With DVR 67.99
Classic Gold 250 With - Adjustment -15.00
Solo Receiver 5.00
HD & Platinum 10.00
$ 67.99
Other Charges and Credits
Jan 04 - Jan 25 Multi Sport -4.25
Jan 04 - Jan 25 Multi Sport - Adjustment -6.18
$ -10.43
Taxes
Jan 11 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 0.86
Amount Due:
$63.42 


Ok, Parents account gets processed 1st and here is the bill. I have no idea what the $15 adjust is for Classic 250 Gold wDVR. Multisport is normal this time of yr, always drop it. Looks like for the bill just created the month of Feb, still hasn't changed for parents house. Only real change made on our part was dropping MultiSport, saving $26 this month, wierd.


----------



## dish_n3t

Nobody has mentioned anything about the monthly charges for the receivers being changed.

I don't remember the prices exactly. But it's going to be changed to $17, $14, $10 & $7 for the receivers. Depending on what type of receiver you have. I remember the $17 is for the HD Duo DVR & the $7 is for a SD solo non-dvr.


----------



## GrumpyBear

dish_n3t said:


> Nobody has mentioned anything about the monthly charges for the receivers being changed.
> 
> I don't remember the prices exactly. But it's going to be changed to $17, $14, $10 & $7 for the receivers. Depending on what type of receiver you have. I remember the $17 is for the HD Duo DVR & the $7 is for a SD solo non-dvr.


Have you read the thread??? Lots of posts about the recievers, the costs for additional, the lack of discount for phoneline or network connection, and lots of talk about rather the Primary is included or not. When posting the prices, you should break it out with the increase over the current combined charges, with and without a phone line connection. Some of the increases aren't that large if you never had a phone line, some are a bigger jump, if you did have the phoneline/network connection.


----------



## phrelin

GrumpyBear said:


> Previous Balance $ 89.70
> Jan 01 Credit Card Payment -89.70
> $ 0.00
> 
> One Time Charges
> 
> Jan 04 Transaction Fee 5.00
> Monthly Charges
> Jan 26 - Feb 25 Classic Gold 250 With DVR 67.99
> Classic Gold 250 With - Adjustment -15.00
> Solo Receiver 5.00
> HD & Platinum 10.00
> $ 67.99
> Other Charges and Credits
> Jan 04 - Jan 25 Multi Sport -4.25
> Jan 04 - Jan 25 Multi Sport - Adjustment -6.18
> $ -10.43
> Taxes
> Jan 11 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 0.86
> Amount Due:
> $63.42
> 
> Ok, Parents account gets processed 1st and here is the bill. I have no idea what the $15 adjust is for Classic 250 Gold wDVR. Multisport is normal this time of yr, always drop it. Looks like for the bill just created the month of Feb, still hasn't changed for parents house. Only real change made on our part was dropping MultiSport, saving $26 this month, wierd.


Anytime there's a change, I have to put the prevous bill and the next two bills on a spreadsheet to figure out what they've done. And as I said on another thread, I'm skeptical that Dish's billing system will correctly handle all these rate changes.


----------



## coldsteel

The $15 could be their promotional credits, the $15 off for the first 12 months.


----------



## GrumpyBear

coldsteel said:


> The $15 could be their promotional credits, the $15 off for the first 12 months.


Ah that could be it. I am on the last 2 months of a $10 per month discoutn for 12 months, but it was called a loyalty discount on my bill online


----------



## dish_n3t

GrumpyBear said:


> Have you read the thread???


I couldn't go through the whole thread but I am sure this hasn't been in the news as yet.

They waive the TV2 connection fee if you sign up for CCA with paperless billing & also give them a valid e-mail address.


----------



## TulsaOK

Source?


----------



## P Smith

Looks like he is an insider. Beware of Zero237 ! He will bust you, man !


----------



## phrelin

Now that I have my bill, I have to make some observations:

The basic result will be a net $2 increase over January in my combination of packages and equipment - Top 250 HD plus Platinum with a ViP722 and a ViP612, HBO, Showtime, Starz, and Cinemax.
Though I had to use [email protected] to get what the chat CSR promised, HBO and Showtime are free for three months which is shown as a $22 credit while last year it was a $20 credit because it was for HBO and Starz.
It appears that the Cinemax for a penny is still being delivered into a third year.
So, ignoring taxes:

My net bill for February, March and April 2010 will be $9 less than a year ago because the charge for Platinum is gone and the 3-month premium freebie is a higher credit.
My net bill for May, June, and July 2010 will be $7 less than a year ago.
Beginning in August 2009 I started getting the free Platinum so that's when my net bill will actually be $2 higher than a year ago.
*I am getting all the various freebies because of this forum. Isn't this forum great!*
​


----------



## fryguy503

phrelin said:


> Now that I have my bill, I have to make some observations:
> 
> The basic result will be a net $2 increase over January in my combination of packages and equipment - Top 250 HD plus Platinum with a ViP722 and a ViP612, HBO, Showtime, Starz, and Cinemax.
> Though I had to use [email protected] to get what the chat CSR promised, HBO and *Showtime are free for three months which is shown as a $22 credit while last year it was a $20 credit because it was for HBO and Starz.*
> It appears that the Cinemax for a penny is still being delivered into a third year.
> So, ignoring taxes:
> 
> My net bill for February, March and April 2010 will be $9 less than a year ago because the charge for Platinum is gone and the 3-month premium freebie is a higher credit.
> My net bill for May, June, and July 2010 will be $7 less than a year ago.
> Beginning in August 2009 I started getting the free Platinum so that's when my net bill will actually be $2 higher than a year ago.
> *I am getting all the various freebies because of this forum. Isn't this forum great!*
> ​


The 3mo hbo/show if done via the promotion will be $20 credit, if done manually it may be a $22 as alot of tech's dont do the math.


----------



## Jhon69

Just got my Feb.-March bill have AT250/wlocals,HBO,Cinemax,Showtime,and Starz with one 625,increase $1.44.


----------



## Alpaca Bill

Just got me Feb bill and for this month only I am seeing a decrease of $7.44 due to the HBO/Cine credits.

My past bills have been $150.84 (incl tax):
AEP $102.98
GoldHD $10.00
PlatHD $10.00
Warr $5.99
HD Duo $7.00
Solo $5.00
Tax (7%)$9.87

New Bill is currently $143.40 (incl tax):
AEP $99.99
GoldHD $10.00
PlatHD $10.00
Warr $6.00
DVR $6.00
HD Duo $17.00
Solo $7.00
Solo $7.00
Tax(7%) $11.41 - Kills me that they calculate tax BEFORE taking credits!!
Credits of $20 (3 of 3 for HBO/Cine), $5 Receiver (1 of 6), and $6 Loyalty (1 of 6)

So next month my bill will increase to $163.40 (AN INCREASE OF $12.56/mo) and remain there for the next 5 months and when all the credits disappear, I end up seeing an increase of $23.56/mo for a bill of $174.40!!! For no increase in services, no additional programming, no new equipment, not a damn thing extra from what I've had.

I have been with Dish since Feb 1996 and besides the 921 debacle have had no issues with Dish. I've referred over 20 new subscribers to them. I used to be on their annual pre-payment plan (when they offered it) and am now on eBill, CCAP, etc. Heck, I even joined up with StarBand when that first came out! But this new price gouging has pushed me past the limits of customer loyalty. Can't see Dish's Customer Retention Dept being able to offer me anything worth while enough in order to stay on with Dish. We don't use the 2nd TV outputs on either of the 622s as they were replacements for the POS 921s that I bought at full price ($1000 each). We would be quite happy with 2 612s as replacements but I refuse to pay Dish to lease them and given the monthly increase we are seeing, I will not commit to another 24 months with Dish. But even IF Dish would swap out our 622s for 612s at no extra charge or commitment, we would still only see a savings of $7/mo (we'd go from a HD DuoDVR fee to a HD SoloDVR fee) but still a NET INCREASE of $16.07/mo!! Dish can't even shift the blame for the increases on the content providers as the pkg price decreased! For me, the only things that increased were Dish's fees for their service/equipment!! My equipment has been more than paid for (I own the 2 508s and the 2 622s I have had since they were initially rolled out as 921 replacements) so the entire increase of my bill is pure profit for Dish and IMNSHO is pure and unadulterated GREED. Remember Dish's cable pig ads? Seems the tables have turned and Dish is the new PIG!

Funny how cell carriers are adding services AND lowering prices BUT TV providers are decreasing services AND increasing fees! Both AT&T and Verizon lowered their Unlimited Plans by $30/mo.


----------



## peano

You shouldn't be paying $10 for Gold HD. That said, I agree the fee increases are pure greed and they hit the AEP subs with multiple Duos the hardest. I still don't understand why Dish is trying to alienate their highest paying subs. I guess they don't want us.


----------



## phrelin

Alpaca Bill said:


> Just got me Feb bill and for this month only I am seeing a decrease of $7.44 due to the HBO/Cine credits.
> 
> My past bills have been $150.84 (incl tax):
> AEP $102.98
> GoldHD $10.00
> PlatHD $10.00
> Warr $5.99
> HD Duo $7.00
> Solo $5.00
> Tax (7%)$9.87
> 
> New Bill is currently $143.40 (incl tax):
> AEP $99.99
> GoldHD $10.00
> PlatHD $10.00
> Warr $6.00
> DVR $6.00
> HD Duo $17.00
> Solo $7.00
> Solo $7.00
> Tax(7%) $11.41 - Kills me that they calculate tax BEFORE taking credits!!
> Credits of $20 (3 of 3 for HBO/Cine), $5 Receiver (1 of 6), and $6 Loyalty (1 of 6)
> 
> So next month my bill will increase to $163.40 (AN INCREASE OF $12.56/mo) and remain there for the next 5 months and when all the credits disappear, I end up seeing an increase of $23.56/mo for a bill of $174.40!!!


Get your Platinum & Gold HD combined into one $10.00 fee. See this active thread and this inactive thread. You should be able to get that done in an on line chat.

The 612 is billed as a solo like the 508 but has two satellite receivers which can record two programs at once and is HD. I'd start getting insistent about a free or nearly no cost upgrade. This is the time to get insistent about things when you're looking at that cost increase. Without being obnoxious in any way, try getting this done. It may require playing CSR roulette. (My two 508's are in a closet gathering dust.)

After you get as much as you can, then reevaluate your package needs. My daughter has the AEP. I keep telling her that with the Top 250 and dealing from time to time on HBO, Starz, Showtime, and Cinemax one can do better. In fact, I generally only have the Top 200 but I wanted something specific on Encore Westerns for a few months. She chooses to ignore me I think because it's just easier than dealing with CSRs and I understand that. But the new costs require rethinking.


----------



## VDP07

phrelin said:


> In fact, I generally only have the Top 200 but I wanted something specific on Encore Westerns for a few months.


Not sure if you knew it but the 6 channel Encore movie pack can be had for $4.99 mo.


----------



## phrelin

VDP07 said:


> Not sure if you knew it but the 6 channel Encore movie pack can be had for $4.99 mo.


No I did not know that. The only place it shows up on the web site that I can find is in the commercial multiple dwelling unit list of packages. So it's available to regular subscribers? I knew it was available years ago, but I guess I didn't think to check. I will do so.


----------



## Alpaca Bill

Well after 10 minutes on chat, I got the PlatHD $10 fee taken off so that helps a bit but I am still going to be hit with an increase of $12.86/mo.

They did offer to upgrade my two 508s to a single 625 at no charge but that doesn't help me since the two 508s are used on opposite ends of the house and that I own the 508s and the 625 would be a leased receiver. I asked to get my two 622s downgraded to two 612s since we have never used the TV2 output. They said I could but I would have to pay $100 each. I asked how that made any sense to spend $200 to save $7/mo, which would take over 28 months to recover. He suggested I get transferred to Loyalty Dept to see if they could honor my request...currently waiting.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Alpaca Bill said:


> Well after 10 minutes on chat, I got the PlatHD $10 fee taken off so that helps a bit but I am still going to be hit with an increase of $12.86/mo.
> 
> They did offer to upgrade my two 508s to a single 625 at no charge but that doesn't help me since the two 508s are used on opposite ends of the house and that I own the 508s and the 625 would be a leased receiver. I asked to get my two 622s downgraded to two 612s since we have never used the TV2 output. They said I could but I would have to pay $100 each. I asked how that made any sense to spend $200 to save $7/mo, which would take over 28 months to recover. He suggested I get transferred to Loyalty Dept to see if they could honor my request...currently waiting.


I wish you luck, glad you were able to save the money on the Platinum. Looking at your math, wouldn't it be $200 to save $14/mo? As you have 2 of them. I would still work over the Loyalty dept 1st though, but on the bright side it would only take 14mo to recover. Money's money, and things are tight, but not sure I would save I would trade my 622 for a 612.


----------



## Alpaca Bill

Well, Loyalty Dept was of no help. Still wanting to charge me the $100/receiver to go from my two 622s to two 612s. She did offer to give me 2 premiums for free for 3 mos to help with the increase in fees but that equates to a reduction of only $5/mo over the year so I would still see a net increase of $7.86/mo. It truly is sad that Dish is choosing to be greedy and stick it to their most lucrative subscribers! :nono2:

Just priced out Comcast's HD Triple Play. When averaging out the intro and regular rates over the 24 months commitment, I would end up saving $152/mo!!! Sure I would have to buy 3 Tivo HD XL DVRs but I recoup their expense in 5.5 months! From then on I would end up saving $2,812.00 over the next 18.5 months of my commitment. I also wouldn't see a DVR fee for the lives of the DVRs, have internet at 6x the speed I have now, and have a lot more phone features than I have now.

Now not all of that savings can be attributed to the TV side of things but there is a large component of it that is. Checking to see when Comcast can get out here to do install.


----------



## Alpaca Bill

GrumpyBear said:


> I wish you luck, glad you were able to save the money on the Platinum. Looking at your math, wouldn't it be $200 to save $14/mo? As you have 2 of them. I would still work over the Loyalty dept 1st though, but on the bright side it would only take 14mo to recover. Money's money, and things are tight, but not sure I would save I would trade my 622 for a 612.


No it's only a $7/mo reduction since the first one is included in my pkg pricing so no reduction for that one. So my bill would be $10 for the HD SoloDVR (second 612) plus the $7/ea for the SoloDVRs (508s) plus the other stuff.

On an unrelated topic...can the HDMI signal from the 622 be split via an HDMI splitter to send that signal to a second HD TV? I understand that it would be a mirror of the first. Thinking that I may be able to split the signal and eliminate the two 508s, therefore saving an additional $14/mo.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Yes, it can. You could also use the component video out to a 2nd HDTV. It's what I do.


----------



## phrelin

Alpaca Bill said:


> Just priced out Comcast's HD Triple Play. When averaging out the intro and regular rates over the 24 months commitment, I would end up saving $152/mo!!! Sure I would have to buy 3 Tivo HD XL DVRs but I recoup their expense in 5.5 months! From then on I would end up saving $2,812.00 over the next 18.5 months of my commitment. I also wouldn't see a DVR fee for the lives of the DVRs, have internet at 6x the speed I have now, and have a lot more phone features than I have now.
> 
> Now not all of that savings can be attributed to the TV side of things but there is a large component of it that is. Checking to see when Comcast can get out here to do install.


That's a pretty big savings to ignore. If the HD programming available gives you what you want, I'm afraid I'd jump ship if I were you if I couldn't get my Dish costs down.

Depending on your area, though, Comcast and others have deals on phone and internet services even without TV.

I'm thinking this Dish Network rate restructuring is going to result in a lot of shopping in the telecom market.

Also, in your particular case I'd email [email protected] laying out your situation including your longevity, how much you appreciate the discounts given, but then asking for help with the upgrading of the 508's. Ordinarily I wouldn't suggest that, but your situation is rather unique.


----------



## TennHokies

Just got my Feb. bill and it went *down *$6.98 from Jan.
I'm pretty happy with that as, I'm IMO, I was wrongfully being charged a $7.00 lease reciever fee (on my one and only reciever) as follows:

$34.99 - dish HD Absolute with locals 
$ 5.98 - DVR service 
$ 7.00 - Lease reciever fee 
$47.97 - Jan. 2010 (excluding taxes and fees)

New bill:
$34.99 - dish HD Absolute with locals 
$ 6.00 - DVR service 
$40.99 - Feb. 2010 (excluding taxes and fees)

This'll keep me a happy Dish customer for many more years to come, or as long as my 622 holds out.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Alpaca Bill said:


> Well, Loyalty Dept was of no help. Still wanting to charge me the $100/receiver to go from my two 622s to two 612s. She did offer to give me 2 premiums for free for 3 mos to help with the increase in fees but that equates to a reduction of only $5/mo over the year so I would still see a net increase of $7.86/mo. It truly is sad that Dish is choosing to be greedy and stick it to their most lucrative subscribers! :nono2:
> 
> Just priced out Comcast's HD Triple Play. When averaging out the intro and regular rates over the 24 months commitment, I would end up saving $152/mo!!! Sure I would have to buy 3 Tivo HD XL DVRs but I recoup their expense in 5.5 months! From then on I would end up saving $2,812.00 over the next 18.5 months of my commitment. I also wouldn't see a DVR fee for the lives of the DVRs, have internet at 6x the speed I have now, and have a lot more phone features than I have now.
> 
> Now not all of that savings can be attributed to the TV side of things but there is a large component of it that is. Checking to see when Comcast can get out here to do install.


WoW, thats a great deal if you can get something Like AEP for around $50 a month.


----------



## sigma1914

Alpaca Bill said:


> ...Sure I would have to buy 3 Tivo HD XL DVRs but I recoup their expense in 5.5 months! From then on I would end up saving $2,812.00 over the next 18.5 months of my commitment. I also wouldn't see a DVR fee for the lives of the DVRs,...


3 Tivo HD XL DVRs will cost A LOT upfront, especially with Tivo lifetime subscription you want.

3 Tivo HD XLs = $499.99 x 3 = $1,499.97
3 Lifetime subs = $399.00 x 3 = $1,197.00

That's *$2,696.97* upfront costs! :eek2:


----------



## Alpaca Bill

sigma1914 said:


> 3 Tivo HD XL DVRs will cost A LOT upfront, especially with Tivo lifetime subscription you want.
> 
> 3 Tivo HD XLs = $499.99 x 3 = $1,499.97
> 3 Lifetime subs = $399.00 x 3 = $1,197.00
> 
> That's *$2,696.97* upfront costs! :eek2:


Actually you can get the HD XLs for around $400 if you look around a bit. Also the lifetime is $399 for the first and then $299 for each additional but, again, if you look around you can get them in the $250 range.

But my actual figures were based upon buying 2 HD XLs at $375 each and one HD at $175 through a friend's home theater store for a total of $925. So it actually is 6 months to recoup upfront expenses for the equipment. If I went with 3 Tivo HDs, then I would recoup expenses in 3.5 months. That is for new equipment...if I buy used or refurb units I could even save more money therefore reducing that time period even more.

Buying the 3 lifetime subs works out to $750. Divide that by the 7+ yrs I have had Dish DVRs and it works out to less than $9/mo and decreasing every month. Or if I sell the Tivo unit to upgrade to a newer model, I would get more money for it since it has the lifetime sub with it than one without it.

Significantly lower than the $31/mo in fees Dish is now charging me now for the additional one HD and two SD feeds (Tivo/Comcast would ALL be HD). If I were to go to all HD feeds with Dish, I would see fees of $34/mo (first 622 incl, second and third would be $17/mo each). NONE of which decrease the longer I stay a sub as they will, for the foreseeable future, remain at $31/mo (unless Dish decides it needs new gold lining for it's pockets and increases them yet again!).

If I were to get three of Dish's current top of the line receivers, the 722K, they would each cost me $300 or $200 to lease them from Dish. But then my fees would be $34/mo for ever or until Dish raises them again. BUT I would never recoup any of that expense (kinda' like my $2000 for the two 921s I bought and was "forced" to trade in for two leased 622s...at no additional cost:eek2::eek2.

Point is, Tivo has a ever decreasing fee schedule if you are willing to commit to prepaying 1 yr, 3 yrs, or lifetime. Dish doesn't offer that so there is no way to recoup the expense over time. I'd be willing to prepay if 1) it were on option and 2) if it ended up saving money. Don't understand why Dish doesn't offer something like it.


----------



## newsman

Alpaca Bill said:


> Don't understand why Dish doesn't offer something like it.


Because Dish _believes_ they have you by the cohones. They really don't, but just don't know it or realize it.:sure:


----------



## SayWhat?

If your 508s are working well, I might be interested in one if you switch.


----------



## Slamminc11

Alpaca Bill said:


> ...
> So next month my bill will increase to $163.40 (AN INCREASE OF $12.56/mo) and remain there for the next 5 months and when all the credits disappear, I end up seeing an increase of $23.56/mo for a bill of $174.40!!! For no increase in services, no additional programming, no new equipment, not a damn thing extra from what I've had...


Sounds like Dish is adding 9 HD channels to their lineup this week, so I guess that takes care of the new additional programming complaint...


----------



## pitflyer

My bill went up $4 after the six month credit. I can live with $4 more, but when the credit disappears, my second receiver goes back to Dish too.


----------



## Link

pitflyer said:


> My bill went up $4 after the six month credit. I can live with $4 more, but when the credit disappears, my second receiver goes back to Dish too.


I agree. I'm not paying $17 a month for the 2nd DVR 625 receiver on our account. That is ridiculous. I'm going to take it off the account completely.
With the 722, 222, and 625 receivers on our account that would mean paying $31 a month in just extra receiver fees - I don't think so.

Whatever happened to extra receivers costing $5 a month? Dish really has found a way to price gouge their customers with these changes. I'm starting to think the cable company prices weren't that bad now.


----------



## Ohioankev

Okay, so this is for the billing gurus on the site 

With the price increases I am thinking about changing my account around 

This is last months bill 
AEP: $97.99 
Gold & Platinum: $20.00 
Superstations: $ 5.99 
DVR Service: $ 0.00 
Duo Receiver: $ 5.00 (I'm guessing this is the 625, and not my 722) 
Taxes $ 7.21 
---------------------------------
$136.19 

Anyways I'm guessing my new bill will look something like this w/o any changes

AEP: $97.99 (no locals) 
Gold & Platinum $20.00 
Superstations $ 5.99 
DVR Service $ 6.00 (assuming that it goes from per receiver to account) 
Duo Receiver: $17.00 (625 is the additional) 
----------------------------------------------
$146.98 
Taxes 7.5% 11.02 
-----------------------------
$158.00


So once I get the chance to make the changes here is my new plan but I'm not sure If I can bundle like this 

Top 250 $57.99 
Gold & Platinum $20.00 
Superstations $ 5.99 
DVR Service $ 6.00 
Turn off the 625 removing the $17.00 additional receiver charge 
--------------------------------------------------------------
$89.98 
Taxes 7.5% 6.75 
--------------------------
$96.73 

Add NetFlix: 4 at a Time w/ Blu Ray $31.16 

So 
Past: $136.19
Now: $158.00 (as of Feb. 1st 2010) 
After Removing AEP, additional receiver, and adding 4 at a time with NetFlix: $127.89 

If I totaled this right I think the third option is a no brainier


----------



## CABill

Ohioankev said:


> If I totaled this right I think the third option is a no brainier


No matter which option you go for, you should include getting Platinum HD for just the $10 Gold HD fee and not a separate $10 fee. There are threads here for how to do it online, but Chat with a DISH rep should work too. If you had the Duo receivers connected to a phone line (Internet works for the 722 too) before 1-Feb, you should see credits on the bill so the 625 won't be $17 for the 1st six months - only $12.

Dropping premiums is a viable, but personal choice, alternative.


----------



## phrelin

HD & Platinum should be $10. See threads Platinum HD and Free Platinum HD?. Everything else looks right, although you might be able to get them to give you 3 months of free HBO and Showtime for being a good customers ($22 a month value). If you can get along without the 625, great. Do you own it?


----------



## newsman

Just received my latest statement. No price increase for me.:up:

Vip222 as my primary, and a 211 as my secondary.


----------



## Link

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with these new receiver fees, isn't Directv going to be quite a bit cheaper than Dish if you have multiple receivers?

As far as I know Directv still only charges $5.00 for each extra receiver no matter if it a DVR or a regular receiver and one $5.99 DVR fee per account.


----------



## scooper

Link said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but with these new receiver fees, isn't Directv going to be quite a bit cheaper than Dish if you have multiple receivers?
> 
> As far as I know Directv still only charges $5.00 for each extra receiver no matter if it a DVR or a regular receiver and one $5.99 DVR fee per account.


Certainly sounds like it, doesn't it ?


----------



## tsmacro

Link said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but with these new receiver fees, isn't Directv going to be quite a bit cheaper than Dish if you have multiple receivers?
> 
> As far as I know Directv still only charges $5.00 for each extra receiver no matter if it a DVR or a regular receiver and one $5.99 DVR fee per account.


Well let's figure it out:

For one tv we start out even, when you have two tv's Directv will cost you $5.00 more and Dish $0.00. When you have three tv's Directv will cost you $10.00 more and Dish will cost you $7.00 more. When you have 4tv's Direct will cost you $15.00 more and Dish will cost you $14.00 more. If you have 5 tv's Direct will cost you $20.00 more and Dish will cost you $21.00. If you have 6 tv's Direct will cost you $25.00 more and Dish $28.00 more.

So pretty much if you have 1, 2 or 3 tv's you'll end up ahead with Dish, 4 or 5 pretty much a wash, if you have 6 then you're better off with Direct.

Of course that's assuming none of your additional tv's have DVR's if that's the case add $3.00 to Dish's prices at which point Dish really only has the advantage at two tv's and Direct has it after you have four or more.

All of this of course assumes you could get two packages of the same price with the same channels with both providers, which we know isn't the case so pretty much as always, figure out which providers has the channels you want at what price and add to it what your configuration is and do the math!


----------



## SayWhat?

Link said:


> As far as I know Directv still only charges $5.00 for each extra receiver no matter if it a DVR or a regular receiver and one $5.99 DVR fee per account.


Anybody ever figure out if there is a valid, operational reason for those fees, or are they just pure greed?


----------



## phrelin

tsmacro said:


> Well let's figure it out:
> 
> For one tv we start out even, when you have two tv's Directv will cost you $5.00 more and Dish $0.00. When you have three tv's Directv will cost you $10.00 more and Dish will cost you $7.00 more. When you have 4tv's Direct will cost you $15.00 more and Dish will cost you $14.00 more. If you have 5 tv's Direct will cost you $20.00 more and Dish will cost you $21.00. If you have 6 tv's Direct will cost you $25.00 more and Dish $28.00 more.
> 
> So pretty much if you have 1, 2 or 3 tv's you'll end up ahead with Dish, 4 or 5 pretty much a wash, if you have 6 then you're better off with Direct.
> 
> Of course that's assuming none of your additional tv's have DVR's if that's the case add $3.00 to Dish's prices at which point Dish really only has the advantage at two tv's and Direct has it after you have four or more.
> 
> All of this of course assumes you could get two packages of the same price with the same channels with both providers, which we know isn't the case so pretty much as always, figure out which providers has the channels you want at what price and add to it what your configuration is and do the math!


Don't those numbers change if all the TVs are high def?


----------



## Shades228

tsmacro said:


> Well let's figure it out:
> 
> For one tv we start out even, when you have two tv's Directv will cost you $5.00 more and Dish $0.00. When you have three tv's Directv will cost you $10.00 more and Dish will cost you $7.00 more. When you have 4tv's Direct will cost you $15.00 more and Dish will cost you $14.00 more. If you have 5 tv's Direct will cost you $20.00 more and Dish will cost you $21.00. If you have 6 tv's Direct will cost you $25.00 more and Dish $28.00 more.
> 
> So pretty much if you have 1, 2 or 3 tv's you'll end up ahead with Dish, 4 or 5 pretty much a wash, if you have 6 then you're better off with Direct.
> 
> Of course that's assuming none of your additional tv's have DVR's if that's the case add $3.00 to Dish's prices at which point Dish really only has the advantage at two tv's and Direct has it after you have four or more.
> 
> All of this of course assumes you could get two packages of the same price with the same channels with both providers, which we know isn't the case so pretty much as always, figure out which providers has the channels you want at what price and add to it what your configuration is and do the math!


The problem is you're example is assuming that a: HD is not required on any TV other than TV 1 and b: that people are ok with the way Dish does the two TV system on a DVR.



phrelin said:


> Don't those numbers change if all the TVs are high def?


Drastically.

I still can't see the logic in this increase. It targets the most profitable segment of their customers. It's one thing to have a unilateral price increase but to target a specific group which generates the most revenue for you seems like a very big gamble.

I can see them changing their promotion though to give out another 722 free as a new customer. This would generate more than the one time charge they now get.


----------



## Chris Freeland

phrelin said:


> Don't those numbers change if all the TVs are high def?


No, with new pricing SD and HD receivers are the same, basically it is $7 per output, add $3 for each DVR receiver no matter whether it is a 1 output or 2 output DVR receiver.


----------



## tsmacro

phrelin said:


> Don't those numbers change if all the TVs are high def?


No, the monthly cost for additional boxes is as following:

solo: $7.00
solo dvr: $10.00
duo: $14.00
duo dvr: $17.00

whether they are HD or not has no bearing on the price.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

SayWhat? said:


> Anybody ever figure out if there is a valid, operational reason for those fees, or are they just pure greed?


This is a concept that could be applied to almost anything... and mind you, I'm not happy and defending of these per-receiver fees by any means...

But, the sole point of any for-profit company is... to make a profit! The only way to profit is to charge more for your product/service than it costs you to provide it to the customer.

That's just basic economics at work.

So... to label any for-profit maneuver as "greed" is unfair.

Does Dish need to charge a per-receiver fee on top of whatever up front fee they charge? Maybe not... but if they want that profit margin, then they have to charge it somewhere. Either on the programming package or on the receiver.

IF they raise rates on the programming, people scream "why did my rates go up when they didn't add new channels" even if they did add new channels! IF they raise rates on the equipment, people scream "why am I paying for a receiver I own" or "why am I paying more for the same old receiver I already have"... so Dish doesn't win in any scenario in terms of customer approval.

I think these new fees are a little over the top.... but I can't say "greed" is at work here. I think it's just business trying to turn a profit wherever they can.. and only time will tell if they made the right decision or not.

One could argue the same point of why do I have to pay a flat XX fee for my phone or DSL or cable each month when the phone/cable line is there all year even if I didn't subscribe at all... the phone/cable company would be paying the same maintenance for those lines even if I disconnect my service... so why do they need to charge me $50 per month? Why can't they charge me just $25 per month since that would be better than the nothing they'd get if I cancel!

Or... why is bread a dollar? They just throw away old bread that doesn't get bought... so why not just give me some bread instead of charging me? Greed!


----------



## tsmacro

Stewart Vernon said:


> This is a concept that could be applied to almost anything... and mind you, I'm not happy and defending of these per-receiver fees by any means...
> 
> But, the sole point of any for-profit company is... to make a profit! The only way to profit is to charge more for your product/service than it costs you to provide it to the customer.
> 
> That's just basic economics at work.
> 
> So... to label any for-profit maneuver as "greed" is unfair.
> 
> Does Dish need to charge a per-receiver fee on top of whatever up front fee they charge? Maybe not... but if they want that profit margin, then they have to charge it somewhere. Either on the programming package or on the receiver.
> 
> IF they raise rates on the programming, people scream "why did my rates go up when they didn't add new channels" even if they did add new channels! IF they raise rates on the equipment, people scream "why am I paying for a receiver I own" or "why am I paying more for the same old receiver I already have"... so Dish doesn't win in any scenario in terms of customer approval.
> 
> I think these new fees are a little over the top.... but I can't say "greed" is at work here. I think it's just business trying to turn a profit wherever they can.. and only time will tell if they made the right decision or not.
> 
> One could argue the same point of why do I have to pay a flat XX fee for my phone or DSL or cable each month when the phone/cable line is there all year even if I didn't subscribe at all... the phone/cable company would be paying the same maintenance for those lines even if I disconnect my service... so why do they need to charge me $50 per month? Why can't they charge me just $25 per month since that would be better than the nothing they'd get if I cancel!
> 
> Or... why is bread a dollar? They just throw away old bread that doesn't get bought... so why not just give me some bread instead of charging me? Greed!


The way i've always looked at the additional receiver fees and dvr fees is that the dvr boxes do cost the company more to make or buy from who does make them, plus people who have multiple boxes do cost the company more in up front costs also. So charging these customers for having extra "toys" so to speak is actually kind of more fair than just spreading out that cost by charging more for programming for all customers. After all doesn't it make sense that the person who has 5 tv's a combination of HD and SD plus a couple of DVR's should pay more than the person who just has one SD box? I mean how much more money did it cost the company to set up Mr bells and whistles over Mr basic?


----------



## CABill

tsmacro said:


> I mean how much more money did it cost the company to set up Mr bells and whistles over Mr basic?


$17 per receiver per month after the first would cover cost plus profit. 

I'm not privy to any costs, but I thought they pay more to the providers for added receivers on the account too. ESPN would WANT more for a 4 receiver account than a single receiver. More so in a commercial account in a bar, but likely for a residential account too. *IF* that is the case, the same fixed extra receiver fee for Welcome Pack and AEP doesn't seem equitable.


----------



## tsmacro

CABill said:


> $17 per receiver per month after the first would cover cost plus profit.
> 
> I'm not privy to any costs, but I thought they pay more to the providers for added receivers on the account too. ESPN would WANT more for a 4 receiver account than a single receiver. More so in a commercial account in a bar, but likely for a residential account too. *IF* that is the case, the same fixed extra receiver fee for Welcome Pack and AEP doesn't seem equitable.


Well that's good since they're in the business to make a profit after all.

The fact that they might have to pay the providers more $$ for accounts with multiple receivers hadn't even occurred to me, so yeah one more reason they need to charge more for people set up with multiple receivers.


----------



## Paul Secic

Alpaca Bill said:


> No it's only a $7/mo reduction since the first one is included in my pkg pricing so no reduction for that one. So my bill would be $10 for the HD SoloDVR (second 612) plus the $7/ea for the SoloDVRs (508s) plus the other stuff.
> 
> On an unrelated topic...can the HDMI signal from the 622 be split via an HDMI splitter to send that signal to a second HD TV? I understand that it would be a mirror of the first. Thinking that I may be able to split the signal and eliminate the two 508s, therefore saving an additional $14/mo.


Those Comcast rates are introductory.. They'll go sky high after a certain time.


----------



## BillJ

Got my first bill under the new pricing. $130.38 after $9 credit which will only last 6 months. Old bill with two leased 622's, AEP, locals, Superstations, and HD was $123.97. So once the credit goes away I'm looking at a $15.41 increase.

But it's not quite that bad if I consider that through July I was paying $133.97. That's when the $10 charge for HD Platinum was dropped. So compared to a year ago my bill is up $5.41. The surprise in the bill is 40 cents tax. I've never paid tax on a Dish bill (located in Illinois). Fine print says the tax is on rent of $9 for my first receiver. But the tax rate makes no sense and I don't think rent is taxed in Illinois. It could be a local tax though. City taxes the heck out of cell phone service, for example.

Anyway, taking my charge last year as a base and assuming at least a $3 annual increase has become routine, I guess I can justify continuing programming I like.

And as someone already mentioned, if I switch to cable (Comcast here), after the intro pricing goes away I'll get screwed as bad or worse. And Comcast doesn't offer everything Dish does in this market.


----------



## GrumpyBear

BillJ said:


> Got my first bill under the new pricing. $130.38 after $9 credit which will only last 6 months. Old bill with two leased 622's, AEP, locals, Superstations, and HD was $123.97. So once the credit goes away I'm looking at a $15.41 increase.
> 
> But it's not quite that bad if I consider that through July I was paying $133.97. That's when the $10 charge for HD Platinum was dropped. So compared to a year ago my bill is up $5.41. The surprise in the bill is 40 cents tax. I've never paid tax on a Dish bill (located in Illinois). Fine print says the tax is on rent of $9 for my first receiver. But the tax rate makes no sense and I don't think rent is taxed in Illinois. It could be a local tax though. City taxes the heck out of cell phone service, for example.
> 
> Anyway, taking my charge last year as a base and assuming at least a $3 annual increase has become routine, I guess I can justify continuing programming I like.
> 
> And as someone already mentioned, if I switch to cable (Comcast here), after the intro pricing goes away I'll get screwed as bad or worse. And Comcast doesn't offer everything Dish does in this market.


Net change is the important part. Local cable here is TimeWarner, they would have to save me LOT of money to move over for that Crappy DVR they have.


----------



## VDP07

phrelin said:


> Don't those numbers change if all the TVs are high def?[/QUOTE
> 
> For HD TV #2, yes, +$7.00 (211) or $10.00 (612)


----------



## coldsteel

VDP07 said:


> phrelin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't those numbers change if all the TVs are high def?
> 
> 
> 
> For HD TV #2, yes, +$7.00 (211) or $10.00 (612)
Click to expand...

Nope, the 311 and 512 SD receivers are the same cost.


----------



## phrelin

phrelin said:


> Don't those numbers change if all the TVs are high def?


What I meant by this is that if you want HD at all TVs basically TV2 out on duos is useless, you have to have an additional box of some kind at each TV and DirecTV pricing has a significant advantage there at some point.


----------



## VDP07

phrelin said:


> What I meant by this is that if you want HD at all TVs basically TV2 out on duos is useless, you have to have an additional box of some kind at each TV and DirecTV pricing has a significant advantage there at some point.


That was my point as well. Not well stated on my part I guess


----------



## VDP07

CABill said:


> $17 per receiver per month after the first would cover cost plus profit.
> 
> I'm not privy to any costs, but I thought they pay more to the providers for added receivers on the account too. ESPN would WANT more for a 4 receiver account than a single receiver. More so in a commercial account in a bar, but likely for a residential account too. *IF* that is the case, the same fixed extra receiver fee for Welcome Pack and AEP doesn't seem equitable.


Unless the formula has changed, the amount that providers charge E* for programming is based solely on the number of customers subscribing to the packages containing the channels provided by them. Sports programming for Commercial accounts in the hospitality (restuarants , bars etc.) sector are based on capacity.


----------



## CABill

VDP07 said:


> Unless the formula has changed, the amount that providers charge E* for programming is based solely on the number of customers subscribing to the packages containing the channels provided by them. Sports programming for Commercial accounts in the hospitality (restuarants , bars etc.) sector are based on capacity.


Thanks. I'd only ASSUMED there was some cost basis behind additional receivers. All the years that you had to purchase receivers, dish, & switches (leasing wasn't a choice) made be rationalize the added $5/month.


----------



## naptime

I'm confused. I upgraded with a promotion last summer to the 722 (in addition to my owned 508) and have been charged a $7 per month lease fee ever since. Yet Dish's web site says that they do not charge any monthly fees for the primary receiver:



> With DISH, there is no monthly fee for your first receiver which, in some cases, may operate two TVs. For each additional receiver beyond the first, we have combined what was previously up to three separate fees per receiver, into one fee per receiver. To give you the best pricing if you have multiple receivers, we will always consider the receiver with the highest monthly fee as your first.
> 
> Receiver Family	Monthly Fee for Each
> Receiver Beyond the First
> Duo DVR Receiver	$17
> Duo Receiver	$14
> Solo DVR Receiver	$10
> Solo Receiver	$7


So, I guess my question is are there still lease fees in addition to what they're talking about here?


----------



## CABill

naptime said:


> So, I guess my question is are there still lease fees in addition to what they're talking about here?


Those fees WILL cover anything that had been referred to as a lease fee in billing generated before 1-Feb. I've even seen people that got stuck with a lease fee from DISH'n It Up finally qualify for having it be included with their basic package. You may not see the quoted prices until your next bill is generated (or you change something and get pro-rated charges), but you shouldn't see any "lease" fee going forward.

It won't matter what receiver you have as your Primary for billing purposes. That was SUPPOSED to be the case for a 722 you might have received this summer, but it sounds like they considered the 508 as included with the basic package and charged $7 for the 722. It would have saved $2/month as the 508 USED to only be $5/month as an additional receiver.

DISH's billing system is often screwy and seems to do things for no obvious reason. I too found a $7/month lease fee for a VIP about a year ago. A half dozen CSRs would all agree that it shouldn't be on the bill (I only had one ViP active) but couldn't manage to get it removed. After several months, someone finally entered a $7 monthly credit for the next year. Two or three months later, the curious lease fee disappeared. The credit remained, but two months after that, a $7 prorated charge appeared as somehow a long deactivated 942 got added back to my account. Nobody could explain how a 942 could have been activated by anybody (no purple cards), but they took it back off.

If you do have a ViP receiver in addition to the 722, there should be a $7 lease fee added when you got the 722. If you don't have another ViP but have been charged both the $7 lease and a $5 fee for the 508, DISH billing is treating you as having two ViPs.


----------



## tsmacro

phrelin said:


> What I meant by this is that if you want HD at all TVs basically TV2 out on duos is useless, you have to have an additional box of some kind at each TV and DirecTV pricing has a significant advantage there at some point.


Yes you are correct, I didn't catch that the first time around.


----------



## naptime

CABill said:


> If you don't have another ViP but have been charged both the $7 lease and a $5 fee for the 508, DISH billing is treating you as having two ViPs.


This is the case. I have been getting both charges every month. I have only the two receivers active.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

You might have to run through some CSR/Retention circles to get this addressed. I basically had to do just that not too long ago to get rid of that 1st receiver fee from my 622 that I "Dish'n'it up" upgraded a couple of years ago.


----------



## CABill

I can't remember WHEN things switched. For maybe 2 years, a ViP via DIU was charged a lease fee, even if the 1st. I *think* it was Feb 08 when a DIU ViP didn't have a lease fee if it was the 1st ViP on the account (didn't have to really be the Primary). Lots of people did DIU upgrades to get a 510 and were still charged a lease fee (even if their ONLY receiver) so if your 722 wasn't an ADD, but replaced some previous DIU, you might have fallen into a different crack.

Lots of people tried hard and weren't ever able to get rid of the $7 lease fee. Some people replaced their 622 w/ fee for a 722 via DIU and the fee disappeared on its own. There is a VERY good chance that the fee will disappear on its own on your next bill. BUT, you probably are enititled to $7 for every month you've paid it. That may be harder to come by than it was for Stewart and others to get theirs to stop being billed. If you are going to try for a refund of back months, search here (or someone will post) for the date that new DIU agreements stopped charging lease fees when it was "the first", "Primary", "effective primary", dunno the exact term. I THINK that was Feb 08. Finding a CSR that understands that the amount billed is incorrect isn't easy. Even when they understand, not all of them have authority to do something about it. It is certainly worth a try. Just be prepared for some frustration. Fixing it going forward is much easier, but that may / may not make it harder to get previous months refunded.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I didn't try/ask for back credits... though I suppose a case for that could be made.

I basically just wanted to stop being charged the fee that no one else was being charged for IF they now did the same thing I did back then (i.e. upgrade receiver).

Ultimately what I had to do was take a new 622 (refurb actually) and replace my old leased 622 with that... which amounted to no change on my actual functionality, but the upgrade removed that initial receiver charge from my bill. I also had a guy in Retention who made notes on my account that I was not under a new/extended year commitment.


----------



## CABill

Though I never agreed it was "right", it was the official policy (even before the 622 release) for DIU receivers. I don't think someone charged $7/month under that original DIU deal would have a good case for any refund. Once they changed the DIU policy (allowing you to avoid the fee on a DIU receiver), charging someone that does a DIU after that point should have some shot at a refund. They SHOULD have made it retroactive at the point they changed DIU, but as long as people paid, it isn't in DISH's best FINANCIAL interest. With the blanket statement now that the 1st receiver is w/o fee, it OUGHT to apply to everyone with bills after 1-Feb. Time will tell.


----------



## Link

Our bill had $37 in fees on it now - $14 for 222, $17 for 625, and $6 DVR fee. I hooked the 722 up to be able to watch in the bedroom and dropped the 625 from the account and downgraded to the Top 200 package saving $27 a month and to keep our bill around $90.00.

A friend of mine has 3 additional Solo 301 receivers in their house. The fees went from $5.00 to $7.00 extra month each so they're bill increased by $6.00.

Who are they kidding with these price increases? I checked on Directv's site and they still charge $5.00 a month per extra receiver regardless of the type and $7.00 for their account DVR fee.


----------



## ShapeShifter

Well, with all this talk about increased service fees, and that the people who would be hit the hardest are the ones with multiple DVRs, I was braced for the worst. My programming and equipment is in my signature. I had a hard time predicting what my bill was going to be, so I prepared myself for a healthy increase. 

Well, I just got my new bill with the new rates. My equipment fees went up $2, my programming fees went down $5, and my taxes went up $0.50. The overall net change is that my total bill went down by $2.50.

Well, I guess I can't complain about that!


----------



## phrelin

ShapeShifter said:


> Well, with all this talk about increased service fees, and that the people who would be hit the hardest are the ones with multiple DVRs, I was braced for the worst. My programming and equipment is in my signature. I had a hard time predicting what my bill was going to be, so I prepared myself for a healthy increase.
> 
> Well, I just got my new bill with the new rates. My equipment fees went up $2, my programming fees went down $5, and my taxes went up $0.50. The overall net change is that my total bill went down by $2.50.
> 
> Well, I guess I can't complain about that!


Yeah, but you're apparently willing to use what people on another thread are saying are the nearly unusable 612's even though you know how truly better a 722 is.:sure:


----------



## JackDobiash

So I got my bill and sure enough Gold HD and Platinum HD didn't get combined together yet so I had to go through the process of doing it. I went the Online Chat route and I *think* it's been fixed. At first the rep tried to tell me that it was already correct and they were two seperate packages but then she said because I was such a good 'long time customer' that she'd offer me the two packages for $10, lol.

It kinda freaked me out when she said it was going to be $256 on my next bill but that included my current one which hasn't been paid yet, heh.

Hopefully everything will be correct on my next bill.


----------



## ShapeShifter

phrelin said:


> Yeah, but you're apparently willing to use what people on another thread are saying are the nearly unusable 612's even though you know how truly better a 722 is.:sure:


Hey, my equipment does exactly what I need it to do. :righton: Where I need to independently drive an HD and an SD TV, I have the 722. And where I need DVRs to only drive their own HD TVs, I have the 612s. Why should I pay a higher initial cost, and a higher monthly cost for features I don't need and won't use? Not to mention that they wouldn't let me have more 722's at the time I signed up since I would be over the 4 leased "tuner" limit?

My setup does what I need it to do, does it well, and doesn't cost more than it needs to cost. Sure, it would occasionally be nice to have the increased disk space of the 722, but not at the costs that it would entail.

There are a couple minor inconveniences with the current setup, which could easily be fixed with some HD Sling equipment, but it's not even close to being worth the one-time extra equipment cost.


----------



## TulsaOK

I'm glad I didn't take the "free" upgrade from a 612 to a 722k.


----------



## Grandude

I have a VIP722, a VIP622 and two VIP211s leased and a purchased VIP622 on my account and my total bill went up $8 and change before taxes. I'm thinking of returning the two leased 211s to get my bill down to around $100 again.


----------



## david_jr

VIP722 and a PVR510. Bill went up $1.04.


----------



## Slordak

For me, a ViP622 and a ViP211 means an increase of $4 and change a month. I don't understand how Dish Network says that "all fees for your first receiver are waived", but then I wind up paying a $6 DVR fee on my first receiver, which is in fact my only DVR. How exactly do they consider this "all fees"?


----------



## Kheldar

Slordak said:


> For me, a ViP622 and a ViP211 means an increase of $4 and change a month. I don't understand how Dish Network says that "all fees for your first receiver are waived", but then I wind up paying a $6 DVR fee on my first receiver, which is in fact my only DVR. How exactly do they consider this "all fees"?


All _receiver_ fees. The DVR service is a _service_ fee.


----------



## John W

Can anyone comment on the changes to my bill?


Monthly Charges
Feb 02 - Mar 01 
DISHNet Local Package 8.99
Classic Gold 250 57.99
GoldHD 10.00
Multi Sport 5.99
PlatinumHD 10.00
DISH Home Protection Plan (DHPP) 5.99
$ 98.96
Taxes
Jan 17 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 6.93 
Total $105.89 




Monthly Charges
Mar 02 - Apr 01 
GoldHD 10.00
Multi Sport 5.99
Superstation Package KWGN 5.99
PlatinumHD 10.00
Service Plan (15/0) 6.00
America's Top 250 With Locals 62.99
Solo Receiver 7.00
$ 107.97
Taxes
Feb 17 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 7.56
Total $115.53


----------



## peano

You should not have been paying for Gold HD since September '09.


----------



## John W

peano said:


> You should not have been paying for Gold HD since September '09.


Why is that? Thanks!


----------



## ShapeShifter

peano said:


> You should not have been paying for Gold HD since September '09.


Why is that? (Looks like John W beat me to it -- I took too long to type!)

Is it because he also has Platinum HD? I have a charge for Gold HD on my bill, but it's the only thing that mentions HD (other than the HD DVR charge.) Should I be paying it, or should it have been removed from my bill also? (I assume the charge is valid, just want to make sure.)

My new charges for three receivers (all HD DVRs -- a 722 and two 612s) are:
Gold HD (10.00)
America's Top 250 with Locals (62.99)
DVR Service (6.00)
HD Solo DVR Receiver (20.00)
Total: $98.99 (plus taxes)
It seems reasonable to me, but is there anything there that shouldn't be?


----------



## peano

John W said:


> Why is that? Thanks!


You can get all HD for $10. Whether its called Gold or Platinum, you should only be charged $10 once.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=162400&highlight=goldhd


----------



## GrumpyBear

peano said:


> You should not have been paying for Gold HD since September '09.


No he needs to pay for gold, but he does need to call or go online chat and merge the Platinum with the Gold, and lower his bill by $10


----------



## david_jr

Easy to do it online. Just remove all HD in your account and then add HD Platinum. That's how I did it.


----------



## CABill

John W said:


> Can anyone comment on the changes to my bill?


My first comment would be DISHNet Locals for $8.99. How on earth have you kept that all these years? When DISH was ordered to abandon distants, my $11.99 for Distant, Supers, and locals became two $5.99 separate line items for Locals and Supers. $11.98 compared to your $8.99 - so I dropped Supers. You are now charged separately for Supers and locals (locals bundled in AT250 for $5 more than you were paying). That is $2 of your increase. If you don't need ALL the Supers, you can get individual ones for $1.50 each.

The Feb bill doesn't include any additional receiver, but the March bill has
Solo Receiver 7.00
That should only be charged if you have two receivers. But it should have been charged in Feb as well (unless you left off some pro-rated fee). That is $7 of the increase. If you only have one receiver, you need to talk to DISH.

Both increases should be offset by the $10 Premium HD already covered and you'd be back to the same monthly range.


----------



## desmo907

Welll Dish is ticking me off. The changes to my bill now have me paying more then before.

They say I have to pay $7 for my 311 receiver ($2 more then before) -- the same as a VIP211 or VIP 411. Why not offer me those others then as replacements 

Also they charge me (paper bill) $10 for SilverHD and $10 for PlatinumHD yet in my online account says I only have "HD & Platinum $10.00" so seems they are double up on me yet not reflecting it online.

And to top it off, the Contact Us form has server errors tonight.

Oh, and i really like when I get a reply it is from "[email protected]"

I cannot wait for U-verse!


----------



## John W

Just did it in a chat in one sentence apiece, so, my almost $10 + tax increase is now a very slight decrease. Thanks all!


----------



## John W

CABill said:


> My first comment would be DISHNet Locals for $8.99. How on earth have you kept that all these years? When DISH was ordered to abandon distants, my $11.99 for Distant, Supers, and locals became two $5.99 separate line items for Locals and Supers. $11.98 compared to your $8.99 - so I dropped Supers. You are now charged separately for Supers and locals (locals bundled in AT250 for $5 more than you were paying). That is $2 of your increase. If you don't need ALL the Supers, you can get individual ones for $1.50 each.
> 
> The Feb bill doesn't include any additional receiver, but the March bill has
> Solo Receiver 7.00
> That should only be charged if you have two receivers. But it should have been charged in Feb as well (unless you left off some pro-rated fee). That is $7 of the increase. If you only have one receiver, you need to talk to DISH.
> 
> Both increases should be offset by the $10 Premium HD already covered and you'd be back to the same monthly range.


Yes, that DishNet Locals thing amazed me when it stayed that way through many other changes. We do have two receivers, but, just did the chat and got the bogus $10 charge removed.


----------



## tsmacro

peano said:


> You should not have been paying for Gold HD since September '09.


Of course you mean Platinum HD. But yes that's one way to save $10.00 right there. Platinum is available as a free add on to any other HD pack right now. Usually all you have to do is either call or do the online chat and they can fix that for you. If you get a csr that doesn't seem to be willing or able just have them remove your HD packages completely and then ask them to add them back on and that should do the trick.


----------



## Don_Redondo

Just saw the new bill – and new “higher” price. Turns out I was in the Platinum plus group – as in I was paying for silver HD + platinum HD. Read a bunch of these threads and started down the chat route to correct it. 

I asked the CSR to correct the double charge for HD. 
CSR – “Do you want me to remove Platinum HD?” 
Well not really and started down the windy road of how all HD should be included for one charge. 
CSR – “Platinum is a separate service with additional channels. Do you want me to remove Platinum HD?” 
Hmmm not so fast, what are the different channels.
CSR – gave me a list of 11 channels. 
I explained how these "additional" channels were already listed in their top200/HD package. 
CSR – gave me a list of HD channels in that package – with the same 11 channels at the bottom – guess he missed that – even after I pointed it out. “Do you want me to remove Platinum HD?” 
No please change my Silver and Platinum HD to top200 with HD.
CSR ”Do you want me to remove Platinum HD?” 
OK you win go ahead. At this point I took the path of least resistance – figuring I could fix it later if it was not correct.

Here’s what happened. I checked the line up on my TV with only Silver HD left – some of the 11 were there and some were gone. For me the only one really cared about was MGM – and that was gone. So…went to manage my account online – view/change programming – and as some of the other threads have pointed out – there is nothing listed under the HD section on the top right hand side of the page – no Silver, Gold, or Platinum HD. Hmmm. I clicked on a different base package and voila the (single $10) HD & Platinum option shows up. Clicked on top 200 and it was still there (very sneaky Dish). Went to confirm and it showed the before and after bills (which for me were the same price because at this point I only had Silver HD left – but relative to new bill was a $10 deduction.) Done. Checked the channel line up and MGM was back. I did not have to drop HD and add again later as some have suggested just had to temporarily pick another basic package for the option to appear. 

Moral of the story (aside from the fact I was probably paying too much for the last several months). If you try to do this via chat you may need to explain better than I did – or hope for a better CSR. If you do this online, try temporarily picking another base package to see if the HD option magically appears. 

One final note that may sway the decision is that at the end of the chat session I was offered 3 month free HBO and Showtime. (Probably open to anyone – but not what I was chatting about and the offer was not expected.) Since I already have HBO this was an easy choice. I’ll take it for free for a couple months.

So my initial $7/mo increase netted out to be a $3/mo long-term savings and a $19/mo short term saving. Now that’s a price change I can live with.


----------



## Slordak

I can confirm that the method listed above does work. If you go onto the website, you can convert your "Silver HD" for $10/month to "HD & Platinum" for the same $10/month if you click off your current "Top xxx" programming selection and then click back on it. 

Does anyone know why this is, as in, why the two are the same price? Is the expectation that Dish Network will add some sort of additional price tag to "HD & Platinum" (but not to Silver HD?) at a future point and catch those who aren't paying attention and don't bother to "downgrade"?


----------



## phrelin

Slordak said:


> Is the expectation that Dish Network will add some sort of additional price tag to "HD & Platinum" (but not to Silver HD?) at a future point and catch those who aren't paying attention and don't bother to "downgrade"?


It's my "expectation" but I have no evidence to support it except they just added premium channel content to Platinum. As with you, to me it just "feels" like that.


----------



## JackDobiash

Before I ended up doing the online CSR route about a week ago to fix my Gold+Platinum HD I also saw what Don_Redondo did where you pick another package and then reselect it to get the right HD options. The problem I had was that it kept wanting to charge me $5 extra for some reason. It may have considered it a 'downgrade', I suppose. I have the everything pack so pretty much any change is a downgrade. I made sure the CSR didn't charge me that fee (fingers crossed).


----------



## speedlever

I have had the same programming and hardware (VIP 722) since I signed up for Dish in January 2009. My bill went up $4.09.










Dish has me for less than another year. I hate to go service shopping again, but increases like this will certainly drive me to do so.

Give me a reasonable ala carte option and I will be happier. There are so many channels in my AT250 that:
1) have no programming or are PPV
2) we never watch

but we have to have in order to get the very few we watch that are only offered in the AT250 package.


----------



## phrelin

Drop the service plan unless something is wrong with your system. You can find plenty of posts here of people who add it back when they think they are going to need service for some reason. I've never had it and am way, way ahead of the game.

By the way, what channels do you want from 250 that aren't on 200?


----------



## Jim5506

WOW, you grouse about a $4 increase.

There are many others here who would love to have only gotten a $4 increase.


----------



## peano

I have multiple Duo DVRs with AEP. My increase was ridiculous and pure gouging.

They offered a paltry credit for six months (less than two receiver fees).

I canceled.


----------



## Slamminc11

phrelin said:


> Drop the service plan unless something is wrong with your system. You can find plenty of posts here of people who add it back when they think they are going to need service for some reason. I've never had it and am way, way ahead of the game.
> 
> By the way, what channels do you want from 250 that aren't on 200?


you might have been nice enough to tell him that there is a $25 charge to drop DHPP...


----------



## Slamminc11

speedlever said:


> ...Dish has me for less than another year. I hate to go service shopping again, but increases like this will certainly drive me to do so...


You might want to pay a bit of attention to what other providers are upping their prices this year as well. $4 is just about equal to Direct, Comcast...


----------



## RasputinAXP

Slamminc11 said:


> you might have been nice enough to tell him that there is a $25 charge to drop DHPP...


only if you've had it less than 30 days.


----------



## coldsteel

RasputinAXP said:


> only if you've had it less than 30 days.


Don't bet on it.


----------



## RasputinAXP

OK, I'll bite. When I go to drop DHPP in another couple of weeks for "greater than 30 days" if I get dinged $25, I'll put "ColdSteel is always right, I should never question him" in my signature for a month.

If I don't, and I'm right, you have to put "Rasputin is always right, I should never question him" in YOURS for a month.

Deal?


----------



## fryguy503

RasputinAXP said:


> OK, I'll bite. When I go to drop DHPP in another couple of weeks for "greater than 30 days" if I get dinged $25, I'll put "ColdSteel is always right, I should never question him" in my signature for a month.
> 
> If I don't, and I'm right, you have to put "Rasputin is always right, I should never question him" in YOURS for a month.
> 
> Deal?


hate to say it but if you added the Service Plan ( Former DHPP ) *AFTER* Feb 1st. you Will be hit for a $25 downgrade charge if you have had it for 1 day or for 2 years ( not possible i know since it only started feb 1st. ) but this has been asked many times on our side and has been confirmed there is no "roll off" date for the removal penelty.


----------



## coldsteel

RasputinAXP said:


> OK, I'll bite. When I go to drop DHPP in another couple of weeks for "greater than 30 days" if I get dinged $25, I'll put "ColdSteel is always right, I should never question him" in my signature for a month.
> 
> If I don't, and I'm right, you have to put "Rasputin is always right, I should never question him" in YOURS for a month.
> 
> Deal?


Only if you've added it after 2/1. If you had it prior to 2/1, you get one free drop. Drop it, re-add it and wait 31 days, then I'll happily take this bet.

But, only the 'C' is capitalized... :grin:


----------



## russ9

I just have the 722K. Officially the bill only went up $1, but the $3 DVR package credit went away, so I ended up with a $4 increase


----------



## CABill

coldsteel said:


> Only if you've added it after 2/1. If you had it prior to 2/1, you get one free drop. Drop it, re-add it and wait 31 days, then I'll happily take this bet.
> 
> But, only the 'C' is capitalized... :grin:


It looks all lowercase to me.

I wouldn't be surprised to find DISH charged the $25 after 30 days, or that some memo circulated that it would. It certainly wouldn't be the first time they publicly stated something in Terms and Conditions fine print that isn't true. I wouldn't want to bet either way, even though the Terms and Conditions seem pretty clear (to me at least). It does NOT say you won't be charged $25 after 30 days - just that you will before 30 days. Not a huge leap, but if I were charged after 31 days after reading T&C, I'd be pissed.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/legal/ServicePlan.pdf


> 9. Cancellation : You may cancel this Plan at any time by calling DISH Network at 1-800-333-DISH (3474). If You cancel this Plan within the first thirty (30) days after receipt of this Plan, You will be charged a cancellation fee of $25.00. If this Plan was inadvertently sold to You on a Product which was not intended to be covered by this Plan, DISH Network will cancel this Plan and return the full purchase price of the Plan to You.


Or are you saying that you have to Add it after 1-Feb, Drop it, Add it again down the road and THEN there is no 31 day no charge after one free drop has been used?


----------



## fryguy503

CABill said:


> It looks all lowercase to me.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised to find DISH charged the $25 after 30 days, or that some memo circulated that it would. It certainly wouldn't be the first time they publicly stated something in Terms and Conditions fine print that isn't true. I wouldn't want to bet either way, even though the Terms and Conditions seem pretty clear (to me at least). It does NOT say you won't be charged $25 after 30 days - just that you will before 30 days. Not a huge leap, but if I were charged after 31 days after reading T&C, I'd be pissed.
> 
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/legal/ServicePlan.pdf
> 
> Or are you saying that you have to Add it after 1-Feb, Drop it, Add it again down the road and THEN there is no 31 day no charge after one free drop has been used?


Nice! This is getting brought up. To be honest Daryl and Daryl will prob fix it then. :nono:

*EDIT* I was informed that they are getting ready to upload a updated version of the ToS for the Service plan and since it hasnt been 30 days yet, everyone falls into a charge at the moment but before 3/1 it should be updated.

**Unconfirmed** all info is given as a reference and not legal advice.


----------



## RasputinAXP

coldsteel said:


> Only if you've added it after 2/1. If you had it prior to 2/1, you get one free drop. Drop it, re-add it and wait 31 days, then I'll happily take this bet.
> 
> But, only the 'C' is capitalized... :grin:


I added it...what, the 10th? When did they add BBCA HD? I have an Exchange calendar reminder to drop it. I'll let you know what happens.


----------



## butters

Looks like they finally added the $14 charge for my second 322.  This means my bill officially went up $9 which is over 15%. Of course they are giving me a $5 credit for 6 months since I'm such a great customer. This pretty much negates the adjustments and ClubDish credits that I have. Thanks Dish.

Monthly Charges
Mar 09 - Apr 08 America's Top 200 With Locals 52.99
Classic Silver 200 With - *Adjustment -5.00* _This is for a ClubDish credit I never received._
Duo Receiver 14.00
$ 61.99
Other Charges and Credits
Feb 11 ClubDISH Cr 1 of 12 - *Adjustment -5.00* _Not sure why this says 12 months?_
Feb 16 Receiver Credit 1 of 6 - Adjustment -5.00
$ -10.00
Taxes
Feb 24 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 1.33
Total AutoPay on Mar 16, 2010 $ 58.37


----------



## Daddy Freddy

Interested in hearing RasP...I added it also in order to upgrade to 1000.4 dish in order to get new channels, I plan to drop DPP as well on day 31. I read language posted on this site and dec to use the DPP to upgrade in order to save the 99.00 charge.

Oh and the increase in charges suck. I to am an everything pac + mult DVRs- I got bent over- credits do help, also called and b1tched, they gave me free prem movie pac for 3 months = 120.00 in addit credits...helps


----------



## coldsteel

RasputinAXP said:


> I added it...what, the 10th? When did they add BBCA HD? I have an Exchange calendar reminder to drop it. I'll let you know what happens.


Sweet. /smug


----------



## CABill

fryguy503 said:


> *EDIT* I was informed that they are getting ready to upload a updated version of the ToS for the Service plan and since it hasnt been 30 days yet, everyone falls into a charge at the moment but before 3/1 it should be updated.
> 
> **Unconfirmed** all info is given as a reference and not legal advice.


*I* certainly appreciate the unconfirmed into you guys post!

Changing "it" on the web site by 1-Mar doesn't seem to me to allow DISH to charge RasputinAXP should he cancel after 13-Mar. Usually, DISH is allowed to change terms to suit them, but here it says:


> 13. Modification: Terms of this Plan may not be modified, except in writing by
> DISH Network and You.


Just posting new terms doesn't seem sufficient (to me).

But my bet is that D & D will just change the copy at 
/downloads/legal/ServicePlan.pdf
and leave the "within the first thirty (30) days" standing at the identical copy:
/downloads/legal/DHPPterms.pdf

Unrelated, but the real reason I posted was to find out 2 things. Today I just went back onto Annual AT120 after getting hosed by a CSR in August that took me off annual to fix Platinum.

1) CSR indicated that although locals were forced with monthly ATxxx, I had an option to get locals (@ $5.99!) or not get locals. Is an annual sub a way for someone that doesn't WANT locals to avoid them? I DO want them - this is a curiosity thing.

2) Is there a general rule for who can't pay annually @ 11 times (package cost less $5)? Is it that DHP subs can't in their first commit, can't ever, some other situation??

THANKS!


----------



## CABill

butters said:


> Feb 11 ClubDISH Cr 1 of 12 - *Adjustment -5.00* _Not sure why this says 12 months?_


It says 12 months because that's how long they initially said you'd get it. Even after they changed it to say 10 months ($50), I got $60 because those were the terms when I did my first ClubDISH. From Feb '08
Feb 01 ClubDISH Cr 12 of 12 - Adjustment - 5.00

I also had a weird name attached to a pair of 12 credits @ $5 for ones that never appeared until I used email to CEO. May '08 thru Apr '09, my bills had:
DishDVR Advantage - You - Adjustment - 10.00

I *think* doing a ClubDISH before they changed to 10 months leaves you still getting 12 months. But I haven't done a ClubDISH referral in a VERY long time!


----------



## butters

I just did the Club Dish and this is the 1st credit so I have no idea why they are giving me 12 months but I guess I won't argue with an extra 2 months.


----------



## fryguy503

CABill said:


> *I* certainly appreciate the unconfirmed into you guys post!
> 
> *snip*


Ask me after March 5th and I will give you all the confirmed details about dish you want.


----------



## peano

fryguy503 said:


> Ask me after March 5th and I will give you all the confirmed details about dish you want.


Ok, tell us what you know please.


----------



## fryguy503

peano said:


> Ok, tell us what you know please.


One of the few undocumented things that was briefly mentioned.

As of 2/1 all local prices include locals even if you dont want them you have to get them. You only get a price break if there are no locals  Available Per our training if we came across an account without locals but were elidgble we were required to add locals and inform of price increase. Once added they cannot be removed as if we removed them it automatically adds the back without letting you save.

If you are unhappy with the price increase you can request 3 free PPV coupons if you have an email address on the account. You can also get up to 3 months of the difference credited off if you keep complaining but it cannot exceed $45 ( thats the max any CSR I - II - III or TSR I - II - III can give without coach prior approval on the account ).

If you are still getting a TV2 connection charge on your bill ( These are people that as of 2/1 had multiple Dual receivers But had 2 or more not connected to pots/ethernet you could have 1+ tv connection charges still. If you add Credit Card Autopay and Paperless billing for no set period of time they will be removed from the account. They are considered services so once removed they will not be added back so you can call an hour later and remove the Credit Card Autopay.

If you added the Service Plan ( Former DHPP ) AFTER Feb 1st. you Will be hit for a $25 downgrade charge if you have had it for 1 day or for 2 years ( not possible i know since it only started feb 1st. ) but this has been asked many times on our side and has been confirmed there is no "roll off" date for the removal penalty. <<--- was confirmed by training. Yes I know the website TOS states otherwise but will be changed.

If you have questions, shoot me them and ill try to answer.


----------



## phrelin

fryguy503 said:


> If you added the Service Plan ( Former DHPP ) AFTER Feb 1st. you Will be hit for a $25 downgrade charge if you have had it for 1 day or for 2 years ( not possible i know since it only started feb 1st. ) but this has been asked many times on our side and has been confirmed there is no "roll off" date for the removal penalty. <<--- was confirmed by training. Yes I know the website TOS states otherwise but will be changed.
> 
> If you have questions, shoot me them and ill try to answer.


Well I decided to "shoot" my question in the form of an email to [email protected] as follows:


> I have been advised that if I subscribe to the Dish Service Plan and later want to cancel it, I will be charged $25.00 for the cancellation even if I don't cancel it until next year. Yet the "DISH Network Service Plan Terms and Conditions" linked on your DISH Service Plan web site states as follows:
> 
> 9. *Cancellation :* You may cancel this Plan at any time by calling DISH Network at 1-800-333-DISH (3474). If You cancel this Plan within the first thirty (30) days after receipt of this Plan, You will be charged a cancellation fee of $25.00. If this Plan was inadvertently sold to You on a Product which was not intended to be covered by this Plan, DISH Network will cancel this Plan and return the full purchase price of the Plan to You.​
> Since I tend to rely on the written documents instead of your customer service personnel, I am concerned that the document on the web site is incorrect even though the web site appears to have been completely updated and the bottom of web page includes ©Copyright 2010, DISH Network L.L.C., all rights reserved.
> 
> Could someone please clarify this for me.


I have, of course, uploaded a copy of the "DISH Network Service Plan Terms and Conditions" to my web server should someone later need it.


----------



## fryguy503

phrelin said:


> Well I decided to "shoot" my question in the form of an email to [email protected] as follows:I have, of course, uploaded a copy of the "DISH Network Service Plan Terms and Conditions" to my web server should someone later need it.


I completely imagine if you complained enough the csr/tsr would waive the charge but they wouldn't state that its to waive the charge they would note that upon review of the account you deserve a $25 Credit for previous issues encountered which is under the $45 credit limit before review is needed by a coach+.

Chances are if you email to CEO they will waive it. D & D will eventually update the ToC thats on the site, but until then I would definiatly shove that current ToC in their faces. :hurah:

Just remember however that the motto around the office was "Welcome to Dish Network, Subject to Change..." Which also means that all the info I have is dated no later then 3/5/10 info and couldn't change in 10 minutes or never. The nature of the business.


----------



## peano

fryguy503 said:


> One of the few undocumented things that was briefly mentioned.
> 
> If you are still getting a TV2 connection charge on your bill ( These are people that as of 2/1 had multiple Dual receivers But had 2 or more not connected to pots/ethernet you could have 1+ tv connection charges still. If you add Credit Card Autopay and Paperless billing for no set period of time they will be removed from the account. They are considered services so once removed they will not be added back so you can call an hour later and remove the Credit Card Autopay.


Good to know. Thanks. Is this new version of the TV2 fee and the means to get it waived published anywhere? I was charged this fee after Feb. 1 and I was told on another site I was a liar and the charge no longer exists. The CSR I spoke with insisted it was a valid charge.


----------



## fryguy503

peano said:


> Good to know. Thanks. Is this new version of the TV2 fee and the means to get it waived published anywhere? I was charged this fee after Feb. 1 and I was told on another site I was a liar and the charge no longer exists. The CSR I spoke with insisted it was a valid charge.


All new customers do not see this TV2 conn charge, however if you had 2 or more Duo Rcvrs on 2/1 then a formula was processed on the account.

Examples:

You had 2 x 322 rcvrs Both were connected to a telephone line, you rcvd a $5 Credit for $6mo.

You had 2 x 322 rcvrs only 1 was connected to a telephone line ( no dda or waive codes ) - you got no credit or charge.

You had 2 x 322 rcvrs and none were connected ( no dda or waive codes ) you got a $5/mo charge with no roll off date.

If you had 3 x 322 rcvrs and all were connected you got 2x $5/credits for 6mo.

If you had 3x 322 rcvrs and none were connected ( no dda or waive codes ) then you got 2x $5/mo charges with no roll off date.

Im using 322's as examples but they could be any combination of Duo rcvrs. When talking to csr/tsr they will not offer you the tv2 connection removal option i explained unless you specifically complain about the charge.

Its complicated and annoying in fact this was the biggest complaint about all 2/1 change training that the whole call center had.


----------



## peano

fryguy503 said:


> Its complicated and annoying in fact this was the biggest complaint about all 2/1 change training that the whole call center had.


One of the complainers was me, heh, heh.

New customers not being charged explains why it is not shown in the Customer Agreements on the website. Only us longtime subs with multiple duos get hosed.


----------



## Michael1

dolmar said:


> Additional receiver fees will change as follows:
> Solo- $7 (+$2),
> Solo DVR - $10 (+$5),
> HD solo DVR- $10 (+$3),
> Duo- $14 (+$9),
> HD Duo- $14 (+$6),
> DuoDVR- $17 (+$12),
> HD DuoDVR- $17 (+$10).


I assume these fees are to add an extra receiver.

I'm trying to figure out what the DVR fees would be for the following *owned* receivers.

211K with External HDD
612
722

Michael


----------



## James Long

Michael1 said:


> I assume these fees are to add an extra receiver.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what the DVR fees would be for the following *owned* receivers.
> 
> 211K with External HDD
> 612
> 722
> 
> Michael


Under the new rates there is ONE DVR fee per account, so there isn't a monthly fee for each receiver - regardless of if they are owned or not. Assuming you have all three receivers you will have one DVR fee then the additional receiver fees for a 211 (the same with or without HDD) and a 612.

The new fees effectively charge $3 more for a DVR than a non-DVR but that isn't a DVR fee, is it?


----------



## Daddy Freddy

phrelin said:


> Well I decided to "shoot" my question in the form of an email to [email protected] as follows:I have, of course, uploaded a copy of the "DISH Network Service Plan Terms and Conditions" to my web server should someone later need it.


Thanks...I may be someone who needs a copy, I plan to cancel later this month...


----------



## inazsully

The rates are going up because they just got their ass handed to them in court on March 6th. Now we have to pay to TIVO. Penalties past and present.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

_This is not a Tivo thread. There is a thread for that._


----------



## ShapeShifter

inazsully said:


> The rates are going up because they just got their ass handed to them in court on March 6th. Now we have to pay to TIVO. Penalties past and present.


The rates went up BEFORE a verdict on a long on-going case was handed down? I don't think so.

The rates went up because they go up every year in the Feb/Mar time frame. Just like cable rates go up every year, just like D* raises their rates, and just like everybody else raises their rates. It's a fact of life -- they don't need a legal excuse to raise rates.


----------



## DishRick

Hello all,

I have been reading through the price increases and it appears that the ~$15 price increase in my monthly bill is correct. But I just wanted to post the charges here to see if there is anyway around having such a high bill. I know I can drop down to the Top 200 which I am considering.

I have 3 receivers, one 722 that is leased from Dish Network. I have a 625 that I own and a 508 that I own. The 722 and 625 are both hooked up to only 1 TV. Right now I only have 1 HD TV that is connected to the 722 (obviously) but I am considering purchasing another one to connect where the 625 is now. I have been putting that off for a while because I know that would require a new box and a higher bill. Now after seeing this rate increase I am not sure I will even do it now. Or since the 625 is a duo DVR would the price be the same if I were to somehow upgrade it to a 722? If thats the case then I would rather be watching HD for that $17 per month.

I had been out of contract for probably close to 10 years until last summer when I decided to get the HD receiver. 

Feb 28 - Mar 27 
Superstation Package KWGN 5.99 
America's Top 250 With Locals 62.99 
Solo Receiver 7.00 (508??)
DVR Service 6.00 
DuoDVR Receiver 17.00 (625??) 
HD & Platinum 10.00 
Total $108.98 

Other Charges and Credits 
Feb 05 Loyalty Offer 8 of 12 - Adjustment -10.00 
Receiver Credit 1 of 6 - Adjustment -5.00 
$-15.00 

Feb 13 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 2.30 

Total Due $96.28


Thanks!


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## phrelin

DishRick said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have been reading through the price increases and it appears that the ~$15 price increase in my monthly bill is correct. But I just wanted to post the charges here to see if there is anyway around having such a high bill. I know I can drop down to the Top 200 which I am considering.
> 
> I have 3 receivers, one 722 that is leased from Dish Network. I have a 625 that I own and a 508 that I own. The 722 and 625 are both hooked up to only 1 TV. Right now I only have 1 HD TV that is connected to the 722 (obviously) but I am considering purchasing another one to connect where the 625 is now. I have been putting that off for a while because I know that would require a new box and a higher bill. Now after seeing this rate increase I am not sure I will even do it now. Or since the 625 is a duo DVR would the price be the same if I were to somehow upgrade it to a 722? If thats the case then I would rather be watching HD for that $17 per month.
> 
> I had been out of contract for probably close to 10 years until last summer when I decided to get the HD receiver.
> 
> Feb 28 - Mar 27
> Superstation Package KWGN 5.99
> America's Top 250 With Locals 62.99
> Solo Receiver 7.00 (508??)
> DVR Service 6.00
> DuoDVR Receiver 17.00 (625??)
> HD & Platinum 10.00
> Total $108.98
> 
> Other Charges and Credits
> Feb 05 Loyalty Offer 8 of 12 - Adjustment -10.00
> Receiver Credit 1 of 6 - Adjustment -5.00
> $-15.00
> 
> Feb 13 State/Local Tax (Sales/Gross Receipts) 2.30
> 
> Total Due $96.28
> 
> Thanks!


Don't know if you considered this, but the existing 722 could feed the HD TV it now feeds, plus in dual mode one SD TV if it needs to be controlled separately. You could get a 612 for the second HD TV if you could do without PIP as the 612 can record two satellite programs and one OTA just like the 722. You would be charged for one solo DVR ($10).

Otherwise, your bill looks correct to me.


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## phrelin

phrelin said:


> Well I decided to "shoot" my question in the form of an email to [email protected] as follows:I have, of course, uploaded a copy of the "DISH Network Service Plan Terms and Conditions" to my web server should someone later need it.


I've posted this to a separate thread, but here is the response from the Executive Office:I received the following from Executive Communications in response to my email:


> Thank you for your email.
> 
> I would like to specify that the cancellation fee for the Dish Service Plan was initially set up for customers who would like to participate in upgrades and technician visits but only want to pay $15.00 to do so and add the Service Plan for $6.00 and remove it within weeks. There are exceptions we can make but is it determined on a case by case basis. We make this determination based on the account history. If you do decide to add the Service Plan please let me know.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any additional questions or would like to discuss this matter further.


This is a bit "fuzzy" as policy, but obviously for many here who have followed the practice of adding the plan on Monday morning, calling for service on Monday afternoon, getting the work done on Wednesday at a greatly reduced price, and calling to cancel the plan on Thursday, that isn't going to work any more. Not that it should have been possible to do that before....


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## RasputinAXP

coldsteel said:


> Sweet. /smug


*sigh*


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## RasputinAXP

Also, to quote Bugs Bunny..."of course you know, this means war." I'm on Chat right now to ask them to take the charge off. But nevertheless, Coldsteel wins the bet.


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## RasputinAXP

GREAT GOSH ALMIGHTY.

This was without a doubt the WORST chat I've ever experienced...



> Please wait while we find a representative to assist you...
> Thank you for being a valued DISH Network customer, I will be happy to assist you today. Please give me a moment to access your account and review the information you have already provided.
> (10 minutes pass)
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: Your patience is greatly appreciated.
> Rasputin: not a problem
> (5 minutes pass)
> Rasputin: Hello?
> (Copy and paste spam! these lines flow immediately)
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: Service Plan comes for only $6 a month. It covers all the Dish equipment in your home.
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: The regular price for the technician visit is $95 however with Service Plan you can get the discounted price at $15!
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: Similarly, the regular shipment charges are $15 and it is absolutely free with the Service Plan.
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: I would also like to inform you that if you remove Service Plan, there will be a one-time transaction fee of $25.00.
> Rasputin: whoa, back up
> Rasputin: I had it for a bit more than a month, and I took it off because I prefer to keep it for winter storms
> Rasputin: and the plan says if you keep it less than 30 days you get charged $25
> Rasputin: But I had it over 30 days
> Rasputin: Dish's website said it, at least
> Rasputin: http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/legal/ServicePlan.pdf
> Rasputin: 9. Cancellation : You may cancel this Plan at any time by calling DISH Network at
> 1-800-333-DISH (3474). If You cancel this Plan within the first thirty (30) days
> after receipt of this Plan, You will be charged a cancellation fee of $25.00.
> (3-5 minutes pass)
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: I see that you do not have Service plan on your account.
> (3 or 4 more minutes)
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: I have not heard from you in a while, are you still with me?
> Rasputin: yes
> Rasputin: the last thing you said was "I see that you do not have Service Plan on your account"
> Rasputin: I just wanted to find out why I was charged for something the plan says I shouldn't have been
> (~4 minutes pass)
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: For account security purposes, can you please verify the full name and physical address including zip code on the account, and one of your receiver numbers?
> Rasputin: Rasputin 17 Whoozymuss Lane South NJ 080mypants R00000
> (5 more minutes pass)
> Rasputin: Aare we still on?
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: Thank you.
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: You are being charged for DVR service fee.
> Rasputin: ?
> Rasputin: Yes that I understand
> Rasputin: I had the service plan in the beginning of February
> Rasputin: The service protection plan
> Rasputin: A day or two ago I removed it and was charged $25 for removal when I should not have been
> Rasputin: According to the Plan Agreement on Dish's website, that is
> Rasputin: I would like the $25 charge removed
> (GOOD LORD ANOTHER 5 MINUTES)
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: Yes, I see that you have removed Service plan via online on 03/16.
> Rasputin: Is everything I'm typing coming through?
> Rasputin: Are we still here?
> (ANOTHER 5 MINUTES?!)
> (03) Abigail T. 76I: I am sorry, we will not be able to waive the fee as it is a valid charge.
> Rasputin: But your Service Plan agreement that was displayed said the charge was applied if cancelled within the first 30 days
> (2 minutes...)
> Rasputin: I can refer you to the Service Plan PDF again if you'd like
> (2 more minutes...)
> Rasputin: Thanks for your help, but this is taking far longer than it usually does. I'll have to call to resolve this.
> Rasputin: Again, thanks very much.
> Your session has ended. You may now close this window.


Just wow. I'm exhausted. I'll email [email protected] later, or call. I'm mentally tired from that kind of customer 'service.'


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## Stewart Vernon

Sounds like she might have been watching the NCAA tourney while chatting with you!


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## l8er

Stewart Vernon said:


> Sounds like she might have been watching the NCAA tourney while chatting with you!


In India?


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## mantry

We have a VIP722 HD DVR 2 Tuner and a VIP625 SD DVR 2 Tuner with Americas TOP250 with Silver HD. 

We got hit with about a $20.00 increase. We had a $5.95 credit that went away. We lost the credit that we were getting because the 721 they forced us to replace, etc.

The biggie was the new HD DuoDVR (+$10) FEE. 

Well Dish, this is how we are going to respond....
1. Reduce TOP250 to TOP150 Savings $10.00
2. Replace VIP625 with DVR512 Savings $7.00

Thanks Dish, we are now putting $17.00 extra in our pockets each month. Raise the prices again and we'll be saving a bunch more than that when we cancel the entire service.


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## phrelin

mantry said:


> We have a VIP722 HD DVR 2 Tuner and a VIP625 SD DVR 2 Tuner with Americas TOP250 with Silver HD.
> 
> We got hit with about a $20.00 increase. We had a $5.95 credit that went away. We lost the credit that we were getting because the 721 they forced us to replace, etc.
> 
> The biggie was the new HD DuoDVR (+$10) FEE.
> 
> Well Dish, this is how we are going to respond....
> 1. Reduce TOP250 to TOP150 Savings $10.00
> 2. Replace VIP625 with DVR512 Savings $7.00
> 
> Thanks Dish, we are now putting $17.00 extra in our pockets each month. Raise the prices again and we'll be saving a bunch more than that when we cancel the entire service.


Couldn't you replace the ViP625 with a ViP612? It's charged as a single DVR, but has two satellite tuners plus an OTA tuner for recording and HD which you might want someday. I suppose they might try to call it an upgrade, but if you're politely but obviously in a huff, they might give it to you now since they charge the same for SD and HD boxes.

Also I assume you meant reducing down to the Top 200 to save $10.00. If you went down to the Top 120, you'd save $23.00 but you'd lose a lot of channels.


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## mantry

phrelin said:


> Couldn't you replace the ViP625 with a ViP612? It's charged as a single DVR, but has two satellite tuners plus an OTA tuner for recording and HD which you might want someday. I suppose they might try to call it an upgrade, but if you're politely but obviously in a huff, they might give it to you now since they charge the same for SD and HD boxes.
> 
> Also I assume you meant reducing down to the Top 200 to save $10.00. If you went down to the Top 120, you'd save $23.00 but you'd lose a lot of channels.


Yeah, thanks for the correction, suggestion, etc!!!
My mistake on the programming:
Here is our CURRENT Bill:
America Top 200 w/locals $52.99
DVR SVC Fee $6.00
Silver HD $10.00
HD DuoDVR Recvr FEE $17.00
Credit 2 of 6 $-5.00
Taxes $5.51
Total:  $86.50
Equipment VIP722 & 625

So if we go from America Top 200 to Top 120 the only channels I see we loose that we have watched at one time or another are: AMC, CBS SPORTS, ESPN Classic, SPEED and WGN (And their equivalent HD channel if there is one). Oh and we would also LOOSE SIRIUS Channels, which we enjoy but can do without. Thanks Pandora Internet streaming radio.
So that will change the Bill from $52.99 to $44.99 (Savings of $8.00/month).
Then yes, excellent idea on doing the VIP 612 HD DVR over the DVR 512 SD DVR. This will change the HD DuoDVR Recv Fee $17.00 to a SD SoloDVR Fee of $10.00 (Savings of $10.00/month).
Total Savings: $18.00/month Thanks DISH!!! (Sarcastic tone implied)


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## mantry

Actually the $44.99 price is for AMERICAS TOP 120+ (PLUS) which includes LOCAL SPORTS channels. I don't see a need for that so we'll drop down to just AMERICAS TOP 120 (Plain) which will be $39.99. !!!!!MORE SAVINGS!!!!!


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## mr_mark95

Well I am screwed. I have three 722s. I thought I was very lucky to win the argument to have three of them installed last year. I have 10 months left on my agreement.

I have tried three different times to get the extra $10 HD fee removed. I am told no each time. I have no leverage since I am still within the two year agreement. Here is my bill. It is up $23 from January. Any ideas?

Monthly Charges
Mar 25 - Apr 24 

GoldHD 10.00
HD DuoDVR Receiver 17.00
America's Everything Pack With Locals 99.99
PlatinumHD 10.00
Service Plan (15/0) 6.00
DVR Service 6.00
HD DuoDVR Receiver 17.00
$ 165.99


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## phrelin

mr_mark95 said:


> Well I am screwed. I have three 722s. I thought I was very lucky to win the argument to have three of them installed last year. I have 10 months left on my agreement.
> 
> I have tried three different times to get the extra $10 HD fee removed. I am told no each time. I have no leverage since I am still within the two year agreement. Here is my bill. It is up $23 from January. Any ideas?
> 
> Monthly Charges
> Mar 25 - Apr 24
> 
> GoldHD 10.00
> HD DuoDVR Receiver 17.00
> America's Everything Pack With Locals 99.99
> PlatinumHD 10.00
> Service Plan (15/0) 6.00
> DVR Service 6.00
> HD DuoDVR Receiver 17.00
> $ 165.99


Your agreement doesn't require you to get screwed. Email [email protected] about the GoldHD/PlatinumHD double billing explaining politely that you've tried three times to get the old two separate charges changed to *HD & Platinum 10.00* which is how it appears on other customers bills. And ask them if there isn't a credit available to soften the initial blow of the rate restructuring. Be sure to include the phone number associated with your bill and a daytime phone number you can be reached at. It might take 10 days to get a response, so be patient.

Now some thoughts regarding additional savings possibilities.

A month after your interaction with the administrative office is complete, if one of those 722s isn't used much, doesn't feed a TV2, and isn't needed for PIP, in a separate effort you may consider trying to get Dish to replace it with a ViP612. A 612 can record two satellite HD signals and an OTA HD signal at the same time. (I have both a 722 and a 612.) While the 612 has a somewhat smaller internal hard drive and can sometimes be a bit touchier skipping commercials while simultaneously watching an existing recording and recording new programs, it does cost $7 less per month billed as a_ HD Solo DVR Receiver_.

Finally, since you have that many 722s in your household, I assume you have the AEP because someone watches channels in the Top 250 that aren't in the Top 200 (see the comparison guide) and all four premium movie channels.

The Top 200 plus all four premiums costs $7 less per month than the AEP. If you can drop Cinemax (most movies on Cinemax appear on HBO), but need one or more channels in the Top 250 you can save $6 per month.

But if you can get along with the Top 200 and without Cinemax, you'd save $16 a month.

Note that if you reduce your programming package they collect a one time $5 charge.

These are just thoughts.


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## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> I've posted this to a separate thread, but here is the response from the Executive Office:I received the following from Executive Communications in response to my email:This is a bit "fuzzy" as policy, but obviously for many here who have followed the practice of adding the plan on Monday morning, calling for service on Monday afternoon, getting the work done on Wednesday at a greatly reduced price, and calling to cancel the plan on Thursday, that isn't going to work any more. Not that it should have been possible to do that before....


I have (1) VIP 722 which controls my bedroom TV and my roommate has a HD set with a non HD receiver. She also pays half of the DISH bill among other bills.

The OP should drop one 722 which would help a bit.


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## BJK

phrelin said:


> *Couldn't you replace the ViP625 with a ViP612? It's charged as a single DVR, but has two satellite tuners plus an OTA tuner for recording and HD which you might want someday. I suppose they might try to call it an upgrade, but if you're politely but obviously in a huff, they might give it to you now since they charge the same for SD and HD boxes.*


Looks like I need to share some new info as I am in the middle of getting one of my two VIP622s downgraded to a VIP612. As of March 8, 2010 dish has rolled out a new plan called "Right Size". Under this plan they are sending me a VIP612 and I am to return the VIP622 and all of this is at NO cost to me. This may have came about because of this email that I sent to Charlie Chat:

I have been a dish subscriber for eleven years. I have always done my own installs, both for
the receivers and the satellite dishes. When I have had equipment failure dish sends a replacement
receiver to my home and I activate it and send the bad one back. 
I currently have two VIP622 receivers and have always used them in the single user mode and I
never use the picture in picture feature. With the new pricing structure I will soon have to pay $17.00
a month for duo TV and picture in picture modes that I never use. As a result, I would like to exchange
one of my VIP622s for a VIP612. Tech support says the ONLY way they can do that is thru the "Dishing It Up"
option, even though I am doing a down grade. 
My problem is that they tell me that the downgrade VIP612 MUST be delivered and setup by a Dish Network Tech
and delivery will cost me either $15.00 or $95.00 depending upon whether I have a service contract ($6.00 per month) or not.

Why is it that replacement equipment can be sent directly to my home for me to swap out and activate but
an equipment DOWNGRADE must be delivered and activated by a tech who has a fraction of the
FORTY years experience I have as an electronics test tech in the aerospace and military systems field?

And this one sent to CEO:

Dear Sir:

I have been with Dish Network for eleven years. During that time I have always done my
own installs for satellite dishes and receiver connection and activation. With the new fee 
structures I want to return one of my two VIP622 for a VIP612 as I have ALWAYS used the
VIP622 in the SINGLE USER mode and NEVER use the pip feature.

My problem is that there is no option available that would allow Dish Network to send the
VIP612 directly to my home and allow me to package and return the VIP622 to you. This is
standard procedure when replacing a defective receiver but not for downgrading a receiver.
Can you help. I really do not need nor want a technician delivering a receiver to my front door.

Thank you for your time in this matter,

Prior to these emails I had called Tech support four or five times trying to come with a way to downgrade to the 612 and get fees waived and the 612 sent straight to my house, not trotted over to my house for a fee. The answer always came back that as of Feb 1 they are no longer allowed to waive fees and the receiver fee changes were due to increased competition.

My last call to tech support finally got me in contact with a Tech Rep that was aware of the new program that had just come out but I needed to go thru the supervisor. It is supposed to cover people who know how to install and activate their own equipment. This info probably hasn't gotten around to all the reps and supervisors as yet. I was lucky to get thru to a rep and supervisor that were US based rather than the usual Philippine reps.

BJK


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## James Long

It seems that a "Dishin' it Down" program would be a good fit for DISH's "we're most affordable" business plan. Doubling fees is not good business.

I could probably go down to a single receiver (which could be anything since the first receiver is included). But I can see the value in having multiple single receivers over having duo receivers. I'd rather pay for two 612's than a single 622 beyond the first receiver. If you're not using the second room why pay for it?

Not allowing people to "right size" will just encourage them to seek other options, such as DirecTV.

The second issue, self install, should always be an option. Even if DISH offered free installation and upgrades I'd rather do it myself.


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## BJK

I had really been expecting that I would have to pay the $100 Dishing it UP fee. I was caught off guard when he told me it would be a no cost swap under this program.

BJK


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## peano

James Long said:


> It seems that a "Dishin' it Down" program would be a good fit for DISH's "we're most affordable" business plan. Doubling fees is not good business.
> 
> I could probably go down to a single receiver (which could be anything since the first receiver is included). But I can see the value in having multiple single receivers over having duo receivers. I'd rather pay for two 612's than a single 622 beyond the first receiver. If you're not using the second room why pay for it?
> 
> Not allowing people to "right size" will just encourage them to seek other options, such as DirecTV.
> 
> The second issue, self install, should always be an option. Even if DISH offered free installation and upgrades I'd rather do it myself.


Bingo! Right on the money James. Whoever dreamed up this fee schedule at Dish should be fired.


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## peano

mr_mark95 said:


> I have tried three different times to get the extra $10 HD fee removed. I am told no each time. I have no leverage since I am still within the two year agreement. Here is my bill. It is up $23 from January. Any ideas?
> 
> Monthly Charges


Go online and do it. Remove all HD and then add it back.


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## bnborg

peano said:


> Go online and do it. Remove all HD and then add it back.


Note, you have to commit (save) the changes twice, once without HD and once with HD re-added. At least that worked for me.


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## James Long

Was there a $5 downgrade fee?


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## Stewart Vernon

peano said:


> Bingo! Right on the money James. Whoever dreamed up this fee schedule at Dish should be fired.


Well...

As much as we all hate the new pricing structure... and for obvious reasons... IF Dish doesn't lose customers over this in an amount that causes profits to drop... then this guy probably will earn a deserved raise for suggesting a price hike that nets Dish more money in the long run.

He should only be fired if we all leave Dish and cause them to have to re-think things.


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## coldsteel

James Long said:


> Was there a $5 downgrade fee?


Probably, but that's moot with the $120 yearly savings.


----------

