# 61.5 vs 129 and Local HD



## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

I have seen it suggested that the 61.5 bird mirrors the HD content on 129 but according to ekb.dbstalk.com my Atlanta locals are not on the 61.5 bird. 

This is important as I am not sure I can even get a signal from the 129 since it is so close to the horizon.

I guess what I need to know is what elevation am I dealing with @ ZIP 30127 on the 129 bird and can I get the ATL locals off the 61.5 bird.

-Funk


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

They're on 129 and elevation for the Atlanta area is about 29 degrees.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

DP1 said:


> They're on 129 and elevation for the Atlanta area is about 29 degrees.


Ouch. That is VERY iffy given my location. Guess I need to make sure I have a "creative" installer next week. 

Thanks for the info.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

thefunks67 said:


> Ouch. That is VERY iffy given my location.


Unless you were in the shadows of the sun before 5pm tonight, you should be okay.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

Check the shadows at 5:00 pm tonight and those areas are not usable?

-Funk


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

thefunks67 said:


> Check the shadows at 5:00 pm tonight and those areas are not usable?


That's the basic idea. I didn't do the math, but I figure that the sun will be some angle above the horizon above which you should be okay I'm figuring on your sunset being about 6:15. For perspective, my sunset is running around 5:30.

Your other option would be to work up some sort of protractor and sight along a 25+ degree incline to see if it clears your suspected obstructions. When it comes down to it, 29 degrees is pretty steep.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

It is difficult to explain the Java applet at http://perso.numericable.fr/~gjullien/satellite.htm but it will give you a date and time when either the sun or moon will allign with either Az or El (or both) for a given satellite at a given location.

Less specific/versatile, but http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.html can also be used to find when the sun/moon will be at a specific Azimuth or elevation at your location. Entering Powder Springs for 7-Feb, the Sun seems to be at 29º about 3:30PM EST. Your 129 Az will match the sun just before 5PM

Latitude: 33.8754°N
Longitude: 84.6856°W

Satellite: 129.0°W
Azimuth: 240.3°
Elevation: 28.8°

The Navy.mil chart show

```
Altitude    Azimuth                                                 
                      (E of N)

15:20       29.7       221.7
15:30       28.3       223.9

16:50       15.3       239.3
17:00       13.5       241.0
```
Above are true, so may not match a chart of magnetic bearings.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

Very cool Bill, thanks.

But shouldn't it be 4:10 for the AZ? According to the Dish 1000 install manual ZIP 301xx AZ should be set to 232*.

-Funk


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

Here is the location of the sun @ 4:55 today. The elevation @ 3:30 was just about at the horizontal plane of the top of that tree. Looks like I am good to go!

http://www.funkconsulting.com/67camaro/misc_images/location.jpg

-Funk


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

hmm could be interesting.
129 looks ok but looks ike the house will be in the way of 110.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

AT 3:30 when I was checking elevation the sun was clearly visable from that location for 110 @ 224*

It will work, have faith.

-Funk


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

I don't have a 1000 install manual or chart, but the only thing you really need it for is skew. Almost all receivers still display the Az & El values for the 119º sat (30101 shows Az 232 El 36 for 119 with a Dish 300) and that's pretty much where you aim a Dish 1000. If you lookup the Az and El values for 110, 119, and 129 with a single dish and average them, that's where you point a 1000.

If you use ssmith10pn's chart, you'll see the "average" applies to the Az much more than the El (you tilt the LNB with skew), but still end up pointing a 1000 about where you would point a 300 if you were aiming it at 119º. At least to start peaking.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

CABill said:


> I don't have a 1000 install manual or chart, but the only thing you really need it for is skew. Almost all receivers still display the Az & El values for the 119º sat (30101 shows Az 232 El 36 for 119 with a Dish 300) and that's pretty much where you aim a Dish 1000. If you lookup the Az and El values for 110, 119, and 129 with a single dish and average them, that's where you point a 1000.
> 
> If you use ssmith10pn's chart, you'll see the "average" applies to the Az much more than the El (you tilt the LNB with skew), but still end up pointing a 1000 about where you would point a 300 if you were aiming it at 119º. At least to start peaking.


My post was for LOS (line of site) purposes and has nothing to do with elevation or skew on the reflector / LNB assembly.

Your actual settings should be 39 degrees elevation, and an azimuth of 228 should put you in the ballpark.

PS the 1000 is basically a Dish 500 number wise with an extra LNB hanging off the side.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

ssmith10pn said:


> My post was for LOS (line of site) purposes and has nothing to do with elevation or skew on the reflector / LNB assembly.
> 
> Your actual settings should be 39 degrees elevation, and an azimuth of 228 should put you in the ballpark.
> 
> PS the 1000 is basically a Dish 500 number wise with an extra LNB hanging off the side.


I've never installed (actually, never even SEEN) a 1000, but something seems really wrong with the above to me. I may be AFU of course, but I don't think Az 228 El 39 is the best starting point. The 1st point about LOS having nothing to do with the reflector / LNB arm is what I was trying to tell him when he said


> According to the Dish 1000 install manual ZIP 301xx AZ should be set to 232*.


He wants the three individual LOS values, to check he can see all of them from the same location (and the house looked like a problem from the photo).

Where I'm confused is the Az 228 and El 39. Those match where you would aim a Dish 500 (the midpoint of 110 and 119) but aren't where you would point a 1000. A 1000 LNB arm goes about the same place you would put a Dish 300 aimed at 119.


```
119 - 300	Dish 500	Dish 1000	
	Az	El	Az	El	Az	El
301xx	232	36	227	39	232	36
303xx	233	36	229	39	233	35
956xx	160	45	153	44	161	44
```
The above are all magnetic (I had to download a Dish 1000 chart), but the above points the 1000 arm about where the 300 for 119 arm goes, not where a 500 arm would go. Maybe I'm just misreading your PS and we are saying the same thing?


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

> Where I'm confused is the Az 228 and El 39. Those match where you would aim a Dish 500 (the midpoint of 110 and 119) but aren't where you would point a 1000. A 1000 LNB arm goes about the same place you would put a Dish 300 aimed at 119.


The dish 1000 is a Dish 500 with a wider reflector and an outboard LNB for the 129 orbital location.

The 110/119 Az and elevations are the same as a D500.



















Let me know if that is still unclear and I'll try a different approch.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

CaBill after I looked at the pictures I posted I had to go walk outside and make sure.
You are correct that the 119 LNB is straight up the arm so Dish 300 numbers would apply for 119.

My mistake sorry. Never paid attention to that when I was installing one.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

I appreciate the pictures! Probably the closest I'll ever come to a 1000. I'm one 500 and three 300s (61.5, 129, & 148) but only one of the 300s connects to my SW64 at a time. I also appreciate Satellite Finder 4.3 - I searched and downloaded SatFinder.jar for myself. Both True and Magnetic Az is especially nice.


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## thefunks67 (Feb 4, 2007)

He got the install done and ended up using my old DirecTV sat masts from this picture.

http://www.funkconsulting.com/67camaro/misc_images/sat.jpg

Two Dish 500's. 110/119 on the left mast and 129 on the right mast just barely cleared the roof line.

I am really impressed with the 622 and 625. Fast, responsive and the PQ might be a tad better on SD channels than D*.

Some of the HD material on E* is flat awesome!

Happy camping so far.........

-Funk


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