# Distant HD Networks?



## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

With the addition of New York and Los Angeles channels in HD, I figured Dish would finally start offering distant HD locals to those who qualify or have a waiver.

However, last night Charlie said the law at this time did not allow them to do that but might in the future. If that is the case, why has Directv had distant HD networks for the past few years now??


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

The specific case Charlie was addressing was for someone who is in a defined DMA and has analog locals available, but is unable to get digital locals OTA. Because the new digital signal rules do not take effect until June, we're left with the analog rules until then, so if analog/SD LiL is available, no digital/HD distants. While I'm not positive, I'd guess that the current waiver process would still apply just as it does for CBSHD until June. After that, from what I understand (and thats not saying much), if you are unable to receive digital OTA (verified by a signal test or contour maps), and the digital/HD LiL is not available, then you should qualify for digital/HD distants. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here as this happens to be the exact situation I'm in. CBS and ABC have already given me waivers, but FOX and NBC are being stubborn (and I'm way beyond the grade B signal area). Funny thing is that my CBS and NBC stations are under the same management and have the same engineer.

On an somewhat related note, does the Local Channels page uner "Add Programming" in the DISH customer service site work for anyone. I've been getting the "...techincal difficulties..." message for over a month.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

BoisePaul said:


> ...
> On an somewhat related note, does the Local Channels page uner "Add Programming" in the DISH customer service site work for anyone. I've been getting the "...techincal difficulties..." message for over a month.


Wasn't working for me last week, but started working again yesterday. I just tried it again, and it still works.


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## steeliebob (Jan 10, 2006)

I've never filled out a waiver request form, but was able to add CBS-HD out of LA when I got the extra Dish put in recently and had the HD programming started up.

I live way out in the sticks on the N. Washington coast and we have no cable nor OTA for any Seattle stations.

Not sure if they allowed me the CBS because of that ... but I just filled out waiver requests for all the networks so that when LA gets all their HD locals, that I hopefully can pick them up as well.

Can't imagine it'll be a problem, 100 miles by air from Seattle and 8000 feet of mountains between us 

Is February 1 the date for LA to get the remainder of the networks in HD??

Most of our eve viewing is our normal round of network shows and we're chomping to be able to finally get them ... much more so than any additional Voom or similar.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

steeliebob said:


> Most f our eve viewing is our normal round of netwrok shows and we're chomping to be able to finally get them ... much more so than any additional Voom or similar.


Yes I agree. All I really like is having primetime shows in HD and some of the sports on ESPN and ESPN 2 and occasionally Discovery HD. I'm not interested in Food or HGTV in HD or any of the VOOM channels.


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

My question is - If you *currently* get analog DNS (grandfathered, wavier, etc) will you automatically get digital (HD) DNS as well?

Do not think Chat answered this question.


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

Mikey said:


> Wasn't working for me last week, but started working again yesterday. I just tried it again, and it still works.


Still broken for me...


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

BoisePaul said:


> The specific case Charlie was addressing was for someone who is in a defined DMA and has analog locals available, but is unable to get digital locals OTA. Because the new digital signal rules do not take effect until June, we're left with the analog rules until then, so if analog/SD LiL is available, no digital/HD distants. While I'm not positive, I'd guess that the current waiver process would still apply just as it does for CBSHD until June. After that, from what I understand (and thats not saying much), if you are unable to receive digital OTA (verified by a signal test or contour maps), and the digital/HD LiL is not available, then you should qualify for digital/HD distants. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here as this happens to be the exact situation I'm in. CBS and ABC have already given me waivers, but FOX and NBC are being stubborn (and I'm way beyond the grade B signal area). Funny thing is that my CBS and NBC stations are under the same management and have the same engineer.
> 
> On an somewhat related note, does the Local Channels page uner "Add Programming" in the DISH customer service site work for anyone. I've been getting the "...techincal difficulties..." message for over a month.


Hopfully Greg will jump in here as he's pretty up on this stuff.

Anyway, as I understand SHVERA and the recent FCC report to Congress, SHVERA has always allowed digital DNS to those that qualify or get waivers but that qualification is still determined by the same (Longley-Rice) predicition model used to determine analog signal reception.

What happens in June has little to do with whether you qualify or not other than to provide more appeal options. The FCC is supposed to have a method in place for testing digital signal reception for the top 100 dmas I think and the rest have until June of '07.

Meanwhile the existing Longley-Rice prediction model, currently used for analog signal prediction has been judged by the FCC to continue to be adequate for digital signal prediction also but they have added some stuff about "noise" and multipath and recommended Congress act on that.

I believe it was just that for the purpose of ANALOG DNS that the existing "appeal" signal testing proceedures where removed if your DBS company offered analog LiLs in your DMA.

In other words if the L_R method predicted you got a grade "B" or better analog signal and the local afilliate denied you a waiver, you used to be able to call for a test to "appeal" that determination. If you got the signal, you paid for the test, if you didn't get the signal, the afilliate had to pay. That was all removed by an FCC "rule" clarification last year in any case where the DBS company offered analog LiLs. What happens in June of '06 & '07 will bring that signal testing appeal process back but specific to digital.

AFAIK qualifing OTA "white" areas have always been eligable for distant digital signals under SHVERA or if you had a waiver, you didn't even need a qualification. It's the DBS companies (both "D" & "E") that have made it hard for those that truely can't get digital OTA.

Anyway, I believe what Charlie said in the Chat about June was very incorrect.


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## LASooner (Jan 24, 2005)

Are the NY and LA Network HD channels going to be Mpeg 4, someone mentioned the current feeds are in Mpeg 2 and we know that CBS currently is, will they launch that way?


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

This is more of a question not a reply. I live in an area that has 2 stations that are transmitting digital SDI signals. I have found out that the company that owns them will not be converting them to HD for over a year from now. I emailed Dish and was told I need to get an HD waiver. Also 2 other nets only transmit analog so I would like to get these in HD as well. What can you tell me about if I will be able to get the nets via Dish in HD before long? Does the SHVERA help or hinder me from receiving the nets in HD?


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## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

Jerry 42 said:


> My question is - If you *currently* get analog DNS (grandfathered, wavier, etc) will you automatically get digital (HD) DNS as well?
> 
> Do not think Chat answered this question.


If you got analog waivers because you are in a white area, and it's also a white area for digital, you should get the HD DNS automatically. If you obtained written waivers or applied electronically through Dish Network for the analog waivers, you must reapply for HD waivers. If you live in a market that will be local into local for HD, a waiver request can be denied at the discretion of the local affiliate.

The thinking of Congress was that distant analog stations were needed for individuals who could not watch over the air television at all. Now, with so much SD LiL, you may be forced to watch the local station in SD if you can't get it off air in HD. The expectation of Congess was that most markets will be HD LiL within several years.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

whatchel1 said:


> This is more of a question not a reply. I live in an area that has 2 stations that are transmitting digital SDI signals. I have found out that the company that owns them will not be converting them to HD for over a year from now. I emailed Dish and was told I need to get an HD waiver. Also 2 other nets only transmit analog so I would like to get these in HD as well. What can you tell me about if I will be able to get the nets via Dish in HD before long? Does the SHVERA help or hinder me from receiving the nets in HD?


:welcome_s whatchel1
One trouble with the law is that once signal testing for digital begins it will be a standard of where your local station's DIGITAL signal can be received. Nothing to say that it must be a HD signal. The FCC is concerned about digital conversion, not HD conversion. If your local network station reaches you with any digital signal at or above the standard to be set you won't be getting a distant of that network.

Not a good law, but the one Congress wrote.

JL


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## Jerry 42 (Feb 25, 2003)

Tower Guy - I asked the question for people who are in the same situations as me, I started DNS service in 1995 when it was easier to qualify for them (no waviers required). Over time I/we have been grandfathered e.g. allowed to keep the DNS under the SHVERA rules. So the question remains will grandfathered subscribers get the DNS digitals as well as our current analogs.(P.S. yes I can get local digitals OTA).


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

Tower Guy said:


> If you got analog waivers because you are in a white area, and it's also a white area for digital, you should get the HD DNS automatically. If you obtained written waivers or applied electronically through Dish Network for the analog waivers, you must reapply for HD waivers. If you live in a market that will be local into local for HD, a waiver request can be denied at the discretion of the local affiliate.
> 
> The thinking of Congress was that distant analog stations were needed for individuals who could not watch over the air television at all. Now, with so much SD LiL, you may be forced to watch the local station in SD if you can't get it off air in HD. The expectation of Congess was that most markets will be HD LiL within several years.


Whether your DBS company offers SD LiLs or not has nothing to do with whether you qualify for HD DNS or not. Currently it only affects the signal testing appeal process and that is supposed to change for many in June.


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## Aftershock (Mar 21, 2005)

I travel frequently in my RV and have a waiver for that. I am considering purchasing a small HD set for my motorhome and was curious if I will be able to receive the distants in HD. Any thoughts?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The RV waiver rules as written only cover analog channels. Perhaps in the next revision.

JL


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## AdamGott (Nov 30, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> This is more of a question not a reply. I live in an area that has 2 stations that are transmitting digital SDI signals. I have found out that the company that owns them will not be converting them to HD for over a year from now. I emailed Dish and was told I need to get an HD waiver. Also 2 other nets only transmit analog so I would like to get these in HD as well. What can you tell me about if I will be able to get the nets via Dish in HD before long? Does the SHVERA help or hinder me from receiving the nets in HD?


I am in the same boat as you. Three of our four locals broadcast a SD digital signal which unqualifies me for distant HD networks. None of our locals will give waivers and they moan about how I wouldn't watch their crappy (SD) commercials.
I don't watch commercials anymore anyway but that is for a different discussion I suppose.

Being a small market (>100, something like #135 I think) I don't imagine that any of our networks will go HD within the next ten years. I haven't reviewed the latest FCC plan yet but from what I understand they are meeting the requirements for the 2009 deadline so I don't see them switching anytime soon. I don't think that all of them are even stereo yet!


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

They need to provide a feed of the network primetime shows in HD from 8-11pm (7-10pm central) and sports on the weekends only of the network shows. That way it wouldn't affect the syndicated programs.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It's not the shows that the locals care about, it's the commercials.

JL


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## roadrnnr (Nov 21, 2004)

My Locals do not broadcast in HD. I have the local package from dish. After June would I be able to get Distant locals for HD if I kept my current locals for SD?


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## lesmoss (Dec 12, 2003)

roadrnnr said:


> My Locals do not broadcast in HD. I have the local package from dish. After June would I be able to get Distant locals for HD if I kept my current locals for SD?


Not known yet. May depend on your exact location.


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

roadrnnr said:


> My Locals do not broadcast in HD. I have the local package from dish. After June would I be able to get Distant locals for HD if I kept my current locals for SD?


What's interresting is that Burlington (# 90 dma) is listed in the 50 DMAs that Dish intends to launch HD LiLs, so apparently they're not going by the normal DMA numerical order. And like you said, Vermont's not broadcasting HD yet (except for PBS & WNNE-DT, NBC out of Hardford, Vt).

Maybe the Burlington afilliates are going to do fiber to an uplink facility or something. I think that's what WCAX does with Adelphia cable.


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## dsanbo (Nov 25, 2005)

walt......
It was also posted somewhere that E* may not be following the "policy" of upgrading according to DMA size, but rather the total # of E* subs in a particular area; thus, it may be the Burlington/Plattsburg DMA has more subs than the Boston DMA and thus is slated for earlier rollout....just a hunch based on an ealier post...


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

dsanbo said:


> walt......
> It was also posted somewhere that E* may not be following the "policy" of upgrading according to DMA size, but rather the total # of E* subs in a particular area; thus, it may be the Burlington/Plattsburg DMA has more subs than the Boston DMA and thus is slated for earlier rollout....just a hunch based on an ealier post...


Let's hope:bowdown: because the only alternate for many of us is qualification for HD distants, which might be an uphill battle.


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## politico31 (Dec 9, 2005)

Can anyone tell me where I can find a listing of the implementation dates for HD locals on Dish? I'm looking for the dates (if possible) for Albuquerque...


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## cnacht (Dec 24, 2003)

waltinvt said:


> What's interresting is that Burlington (# 90 dma) is listed in the 50 DMAs that Dish intends to launch HD LiLs, so apparently they're not going by the normal DMA numerical order.QUOTE]
> 
> They probably have extra room on a spot beam that otherwise would have went to waste. My analog locals(DMA 88) were added before some highly populated areas because of extra room on the spot beam that couldn't have been used otherwise.
> 
> Chad


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## roadrnnr (Nov 21, 2004)

waltinvt said:


> Maybe the Burlington affiliates are going to do fiber to an uplink facility or something. I think that's what WCAX does with Adelphia cable.


Yes WCAX Uplinks to adelphia only there HD content.

I hope we can get distant HD locals cause the Fox affiliate we have has the worst picture. It is simply ridiculous we have to put up with such crap here in the Burlington area


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## ckinninger (Jul 23, 2005)

James Long said:


> JL


Do you happen to know if the people who can get SD distant networks can get two Distants in HD like they can in SD?

I am quite sure that if you get the Distants in SD you'll get them in HD like D*. Question is 1 like D* or 2  2 would be sweet 

Thanks,

CK


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You can get the same distant in SD and HD and it will count as *ONE*.
You are still limited to two distant stations of each network you qualify for, but if you get CBS NY SD you can also get CBS NY HD (you qualify).

(If you qualify by being grandfathered this might not work.)

JL


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## ckinninger (Jul 23, 2005)

James Long said:


> You can get the same distant in SD and HD and it will count as *ONE*.
> You are still limited to two distant stations of each network you qualify for, but if you get CBS NY SD you can also get CBS NY HD (you qualify).
> 
> (If you qualify by being grandfathered this might not work.)
> ...


thanks jl....

you might have answered this above but i am not sure so i'll try again. say i get fox in sd from la and ny. would i automatically get fox in hd from ny and la? i realize i'd need 129 and 61.5. or would they do like directv and give me one or the other based on my geographic location.

thanks a lot.

ck


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The digitals have an additional restriction that you can't receive a distant digital that airs programs before your local stations. Legally if you qualify for digital distants and live in the central or eastern time zone you can get any two stations, but if you live in the mountain or pacific time zone you can't receive the early feeds from the east coast.

(There is gradfathering involved for those with digital distants before the new law went into effect.)

JL


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## bmanner (Jan 19, 2004)

James Long said:


> The digitals have an additional restriction that you can't receive a distant digital that airs programs before your local stations. Legally if you qualify for digital distants and live in the central or eastern time zone you can get any two stations, but if you live in the mountain or pacific time zone you can't receive the early feeds from the east coast.
> 
> (There is gradfathering involved for those with digital distants before the new law went into effect.)
> 
> JL


So I am confused about the possibility of receiving additional broadcast channels in HD. So today I receive all locals from Dish (CBS, ABC, FOX, NBC) out of Memphis. I also receive the CBSHD East Feed out of NY. Is there any chance in the future that I will be able to receive ABC, FOX, & NBC in HD?


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

James Long said:


> the new law went into effect.)JL


JL,

"new" as in, recently, or "new" as in, the current law in effect?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

New as in the law that went into effect at the end of 2004 (current).

JL


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## ckinninger (Jul 23, 2005)

James Long said:


> The digitals have an additional restriction that you can't receive a distant digital that airs programs before your local stations. Legally if you qualify for digital distants and live in the central or eastern time zone you can get any two stations, but if you live in the mountain or pacific time zone you can't receive the early feeds from the east coast.
> 
> (There is gradfathering involved for those with digital distants before the new law went into effect.)
> 
> JL


ok. so if i am in the eastern time zone and get la and ny in sd i wouldn't be in violation of the law if they gave me ny and la becuase either it would be at the correct time (ny hd) or after (la hd). i guess it's a question of waiting to see what they allow on dish.

thanks again. ck


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## jcm.oo (Jan 24, 2005)

Is it known if the distant networks (NY, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX & LA, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) will be in mpeg 2 or mpeg 4?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Right now CBS-HD East and West are in MPEG2. E* does not offer the other networks at this time.

Also remember that distants are entirely optional. E* is not forced to offer distants, even if you qualify.

JL


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## jcm.oo (Jan 24, 2005)

James Long said:


> Right now CBS-HD East and West are in MPEG2. E* does not offer the other networks at this time.
> 
> Also remember that distants are entirely optional. E* is not forced to offer distants, even if you qualify.
> 
> JL


I know that they don't offer them at this time. But the are coming, right? If they will have the NY locals in hd why wouldn't somebody in a digital White area be able to receive these? I have NY version of FOX in SD now. Dish is the only way I will ever be able to get FOX and NBC in HD. Does anybody know if they will be in mpeg 2 or mpeg 4?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

"All new HD channels will be in MPEG4" so distants are likely to be in MPEG4.
It's unlikely that they will even be mentioned until June.

JL


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## BoisePaul (Apr 26, 2005)

jcm.oo said:


> Does anybody know if they will be in mpeg 2 or mpeg 4?


Nothing regarding this specific subject has been announced. I suspect that there might be some people here who do know (or will know before the rest of us), but are unable to disclose this information. Charlie made the statement that all new HD (with the exception of the Olympic HD channel) would require an MPEG4 receiver. You can interpret that however you like. The uplink guys like JohnH can see information about how the signal is currently uplinked, but that may mean nothing once the channels become available. The point here is that we'll find out this answer when either a) E* announces it publicly, or b) the channels become available and can or cannot be received on certain receivers.


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## Tower Guy (Jul 27, 2005)

bmanner said:


> So I am confused about the possibility of receiving additional broadcast channels in HD. So today I receive all locals from Dish (CBS, ABC, FOX, NBC) out of Memphis. I also receive the CBSHD East Feed out of NY. Is there any chance in the future that I will be able to receive ABC, FOX, & NBC in HD?


Have you considered an off air antenna? Try www.antennaweb.org to see what type of antenna might work for you. If you use a high performance antenna you can often get reception even if antennaweb says otherwise.

Meanwhile, E* did list Memphis as a future HD market at their booth at CES.


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## bmanner (Jan 19, 2004)

Tower Guy said:


> Have you considered an off air antenna? Try www.antennaweb.org to see what type of antenna might work for you. If you use a high performance antenna you can often get reception even if antennaweb says otherwise.
> 
> Meanwhile, E* did list Memphis as a future HD market at their booth at CES.


Well, I am too far from Memphis to receive OTA. Approximately 75-85 miles. There is a ABC station in Jackson TN that is broadcasting in digital. Approximately 25 miles. But the transmitter is at "flea power" at the moment. So for me to get HD, it is going to be Sat. That is why I am hoping that once Memphis is a HD market, and I now get the locals SD, maybe I'll get HD.


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

politico31 said:


> dates (if possible) for Albuquerque...


Don't know the dates but as 46th DMA and a large geographic area, I believe we are in the second group right after the first 5/6. This would make it end of March to early May. Do not know if your Colorado location would qualify unless near Farmington, possibly. Luck,
-Ken


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## Rod Williams (Jan 8, 2006)

After reading through 10 days of messages, it seems that no one has answered the original posters question. How is it that Direct TV is offering HD nets now and Dish is not? I have asked Dish techs this question and they do not know. It seems that if Dish is going to be the leader is providing HD programming, they would at least offer HD networks now for those that qualify as does Direct.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rod Williams said:


> After reading through 10 days of messages, it seems that no one has answered the original posters question. How is it that Direct TV is offering HD nets now and Dish is not? I have asked Dish techs this question and they do not know. It seems that if Dish is going to be the leader is providing HD programming, they would at least offer HD networks now for those that qualify as does Direct.


E* (Dish Network) has interpreted the regulations differently than D* and does not believe that they have the right to offer HD Distants. They expect a clarification to the qualification rules in June and will likely offer HD Distants to 'unserved' and 'underserved' customers as soon as the FCC clearly states rules that E* can follow. D* took a guess and they hope they are right.

E* has also been holding back on ALL HD additions waiting for the availability of MPEG4 receivers. We've got reports going back more than a year of Charlie Ergen and others saying that they were not pushing HD because they didn't want to have a lot of customers to upgrade. Yes it put them behind. Yes they went from being the leader to "we WILL BE the leader" in their comments about HD. Now with a 25 channel HD pack less than two weeks away they are ready to once again BE the leader - and pass D*.


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## Rod Williams (Jan 8, 2006)

James Long said:


> E* (Dish Network) has interpreted the regulations differently than D* and does not believe that they have the right to offer HD Distants. They expect a clarification to the qualification rules in June and will likely offer HD Distants to 'unserved' and 'underserved' customers as soon as the FCC clearly states rules that E* can follow. D* took a guess and they hope they are right.
> 
> E* has also been holding back on ALL HD additions waiting for the availability of MPEG4 receivers. We've got reports going back more than a year of Charlie Ergen and others saying that they were not pushing HD because they didn't want to have a lot of customers to upgrade. Yes it put them behind. Yes they went from being the leader to "we WILL BE the leader" in their comments about HD. Now with a 25 channel HD pack less than two weeks away they are ready to once again BE the leader - and pass D*.


Thank you James for your response. I do wonder if it is not more of waiting for mpeg4 than it is a difference in interpretation. I spoke to a D* technician and was told that they would not be offering HD distant nets if they weren't sure that they were allowed to. What is stopping E* from interpreting the rules the same as D*? It doesn't seem like the FCC could stop Dish from offering HD distant nets without also stopping D*.

I also feel that being the leader in HD should start with offering the major networks in HD rather than the VOOM channels at an extra charge.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Interpreting the regulations was the answer Charlie gave on the Chat in January (just a couple of weeks ago). I believe E* is going to put the emphasis on getting YOUR HD locals to you, one way or another, instead of bringing alternative HD locals.

Since I'm in a market with no OTA ABC digital feed (HD or SD - and no HD for WB or UPN as well OTA) I'd love to see E* offer HD Distants as soon as possible. Then again, I don't watch ABC often enough to miss ABC-HD ... WB-HD would be a different issue for my wife.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

The HD nets dish would be putting up will only be abc, cbs, nbc and fox to begin with. If wanting it for WB, you will still be left waiting.


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## ggw2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

James Long said:


> Interpreting the regulations was the answer Charlie gave on the Chat in January (just a couple of weeks ago). I believe E* is going to put the emphasis on getting YOUR HD locals to you, one way or another, instead of bringing alternative HD locals.
> 
> Since I'm in a market with no OTA ABC digital feed (HD or SD - and no HD for WB or UPN as well OTA) I'd love to see E* offer HD Distants as soon as possible. Then again, I don't watch ABC often enough to miss ABC-HD ... WB-HD would be a different issue for my wife.


Where I live in Upstate NY there is essentially no OTA and even if there was I would not be able to receive them because of hills, etc.. Currently I get CBSHD off dish. I am also on a one year special from local TW with their 8300HD box. But they only have ABC and NBC in HD. It has been this way for the past 9 months and I don't see CBS or FOX coming on board anytime soon. I got a one year special from them for signing up for digital phone and giving them a copy of a Dish bill. This ends in April and I am sure the cable part of my bill will skyrocket at that time. So I will drop them back down to basic lifeline where I was before. Unless dish starts supplying Distants in HD (and i'm grandfathered with all my current waivers) I will be back to where I was last spring . So I keep my fingers crossed everyday that it will happen in the near term. I am getting tired of being a 2nd class citizen because I live in a rural area tho!! Gerry


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

James Long said:


> E* (Dish Network) has interpreted the regulations differently than D* and does not believe that they have the right to offer HD Distants.......


What about WCBS-DT on Dish channel 9483? This is available to anyone in the Eastern & Central Time zones who qualifies and who also subscribes to the HD Pack.

I would assume this is the same channel on the 61.5 bird that qualified HD New Yorkers enjoy. I also assume it's CONUS, so why allow access to the other 3 NY HD locals to those who qualify?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

moman19 said:


> What about WCBS-DT on Dish channel 9483? This is available to anyone in the Eastern & Central Time zones who qualifies and who also subscribes to the HD Pack.
> 
> I would assume this is the same channel on the 61.5 bird that qualified HD New Yorkers enjoy. I also assume it's CONUS, so why allow access to the other 3 NY HD locals to those who qualify?


"Anyone who qualifies" is a matter of E*'s opinion. They had their own qualifications in place for CBS-HD worked out with CBS before Congress stepped in and wrote a law about digitals. Yes, 61.5 is Conus (with the caveat that west coast people have to try harder than east coast people).

Why _not_ the other networks? They just have not started offering them. The public reason (or excuse, as noted above) is being unsure of the standards the FCC will enforce. Beyond that we can do British pantomime for the next five months ("Oh yes, they can" "Oh no, they can't" repeated over and over). HD Distants other than CBS-HD are not offered by E*.


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

James Long said:


> "Anyone who qualifies" is a matter of E*'s opinion. They had their own qualifications in place for CBS-HD worked out with CBS before Congress stepped in and wrote a law about digitals. Yes, 61.5 is Conus (with the caveat that west coast people have to try harder than east coast people).
> 
> Why _not_ the other networks? They just have not started offering them. The public reason (or excuse, as noted above) is being unsure of the standards the FCC will enforce. Beyond that we can do British pantomime for the next five months ("Oh yes, they can" "Oh no, they can't" repeated over and over). HD Distants other than CBS-HD are not offered by E*.


You're exactly right. What the "law" says is certainly subject to opinion and debate but the bottom line is that fines and law suit awards have not been favorable to satellite in the past and since congress made the SHIVA & SHVERA language so ambigious (delibertly in my opinion), Dish hasn't figured it's been worth going out on a limb to provide distant DNS without something in writting.

I talked with an FCC rep a couple of weeks ago and with an FCC lawyer 6 months ago. Both conversations left me with the opinion that the FCC is bias against satellite and will lean towards the afilliate in matters where the law is subject to interpertation. Given that, I think Dish is waiting to see what happens April 30th when there is supposedly going to be a digitally specific signal testing system put in place for the top 100 dmas. Currently there is not signal testing appeal process for digital.

As an example of FCC bias, when I told her that there were afilliates that refused to grant waivers as a matter of policy, regardless of prediction model results, she insisted she had never heard of any afilliate ever denying a waiver to anyone that could not get a grade "B" signal as predicted by the existing L-R model.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

waltinvt said:


> As an example of FCC bias, when I told her that there were afilliates that refused to grant waivers as a matter of policy, regardless of prediction model results, she insisted she had never heard of any afilliate ever denying a waiver to anyone that could not get a grade "B" signal as predicted by the existing L-R model.


And that model pretty much sucks, IMHO.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> "Anyone who qualifies" is a matter of E*'s opinion. They had their own qualifications in place for CBS-HD worked out with CBS before ...


That was a matter of CBS issuing automatic waivers. If the wanted to and the other networks wanted to the same would be true for SOME of the stations. Not necessarily the same cities for the other networks.

And someone said a requirement was subscirbing to HD package. That is incorrect. You need only be subscribing to your CBS local station in a O&O market to qualify.


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## carl066 (Jan 25, 2006)

ckinninger said:


> thanks jl....
> 
> you might have answered this above but i am not sure so i'll try again. say i get fox in sd from la and ny. would i automatically get fox in hd from ny and la? i realize i'd need 129 and 61.5. or would they do like directv and give me one or the other based on my geographic location.
> 
> ...


I have the DirecTV HDs from Los Angeles, and suspect Dish will follow similar rules. If you qualify for HD DNS, they will be supplied from EITHER LA or NYC, but not both. For several years, many of us in white areas got both SD and HD channels from both coasts (8 channels). Really nice, but this is now a thing of the past as DirecTV interpreted the modified SHVERA FCC ruling.

If you want HDs from both east and west via satellite, there is only one option: sign up for either of the two Canadian satellite services, Star Choice or Bell ExpressVu. It's perfectly legal, and detailed information can be found on the various Canadian satellite forums. You can check the providers websites for programming packages and pricing.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

I live in the middle of nowhere and have NY and LA locals in SD and CBS-HD. When will I be able to get the NT and LA HD feeds of the other networks and is there the slightest chance I could see them by Feb. 1 and Super Bowl Sunday?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

No. Not by the Superbowl. Based on the nowhere you live it will be difficult.

Perhaps by the end of the year something pleasant will show up on E10 at 110° for you.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

Maybe all the a la carte fans can convince the NFL to make the Superbowl a PPV exclusive this year.


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## ckinninger (Jul 23, 2005)

James Long said:


> No. Not by the Superbowl. Based on the nowhere you live it will be difficult.
> 
> Perhaps by the end of the year something pleasant will show up on E10 at 110° for you.


hi,

far north was saying he has distant networks in sd. why wouldn't he have the hd of one or the other by the superbowl?

thanks.

ck


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The uplinks of channels 240 and 250 to 110° change my statement slightly.
People with access to 110° may just get ABC-HD that one special day.

There have been no announcements or even notes on this uplink, so it is only a guess who would be eligible for this special feed. Yes, this is one of those times where a quick answer would be best!

(The thought for FarNorth's case was because local HD is showing up on 61.5 and 129 and I believe he is out of the footprint for both satellites. This new temporary uplink seems to solve that problem - if he's eligible and nobody knows yet.)


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

Well, I would certainly think so since I have distant SD locals as well as CBS-HD and the nearest ABC HD affiliate is 1,500 miles away. If I don't qualify, who does?


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## politico31 (Dec 9, 2005)

KKlare said:


> Don't know the dates but as 46th DMA and a large geographic area, I believe we are in the second group right after the first 5/6. This would make it end of March to early May. Do not know if your Colorado location would qualify unless near Farmington, possibly. Luck,
> -Ken


Ken, where do you find the info on DMAs? I've heard references but never seen a thread or hyperlink that directs me! And yes, we are near Farmington. Thanks for your response..


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Here is the DMA list
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html


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## waltinvt (Feb 9, 2004)

FarNorth said:


> Well, I would certainly think so since I have distant SD locals as well as CBS-HD and the nearest ABC HD affiliate is 1,500 miles away. If I don't qualify, who does?


Apparently ONLY the 10 ABC O&O cities listed.

Write your congresspeople. They wrote SHVERA to supposedly help people like us. We jump through the hoops and finally qualify either by being "unserved" or with waivers or whatever and they still find a way to deny us.

The exact same thing happened with Dish, NBC & Sony last year for the Olympics. Most of the people allowed to get the HD feed already have other options for the HD feed but thousands of rural area people with NO other options get denied - even when they qualify and already receive the analog feed of the same distant station.


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## ckinninger (Jul 23, 2005)

James Long said:


> The uplinks of channels 240 and 250 to 110° change my statement slightly.
> People with access to 110° may just get ABC-HD that one special day.
> 
> There have been no announcements or even notes on this uplink, so it is only a guess who would be eligible for this special feed. Yes, this is one of those times where a quick answer would be best!
> ...


Hi JL,

I didn't know about the Superbowl deal until after that either. In a general way I like to beleive that if you get the Distants (all 4) in SD than you are going to qualify for the HD distants. The Distants in HD should be shot all over (conus) from 61/129 and I think those two sats should cover all of us. If not, how are we supposed to get Voom and Other HD channels from 61/129 I wonder.

I guess my real question is not so much about signal as it is "if we live in the eastern time zone can we get the western hd on top of eastern hd if we are distant sd approved already?". or is it gonna be like Directv and to avoid fighting nobody gets two.

Anyone know when the NY and LA HD will be in the guide? Right now I have 61.5 and I'm in LA so I need to move it to the 129.

Thanks...

CK


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## AdamGott (Nov 30, 2005)

waltinvt said:


> Apparently ONLY the 10 ABC O&O cities listed.
> 
> Write your congresspeople. They wrote SHVERA to supposedly help people like us. We jump through the hoops and finally qualify either by being "unserved" or with waivers or whatever and they still find a way to deny us.


No, I would say that they wrote it to quickly get the analog stations off the air. All of my locals (short of Fox) broadcast a 'digital' signal but none are in HD. So this keeps me from getting any distant HD networks....


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## carl066 (Jan 25, 2006)

ckinninger said:


> Hi JL,
> 
> I didn't know about the Superbowl deal until after that either. In a general way I like to beleive that if you get the Distants (all 4) in SD than you are going to qualify for the HD distants. The Distants in HD should be shot all over (conus) from 61/129 and I think those two sats should cover all of us. If not, how are we supposed to get Voom and Other HD channels from 61/129 I wonder.
> 
> ...


As I said in an earlier post, HD DNS feeds from the opposite coast are a thing of the past on D*. I would be shocked if E* started offering them.

It is sad that neither satellite provider has not done more to offer radio and television services from distant areas. If they really wanted to put a knife in the cable competition and twist it, that would be a nice start. Now that there is widespread multiple ownership of stations, it is not as important that you be watching the company's local station, rather than one of their stations elsewhere. All the viewership revenue goes into the same pot.

I really enjoy listening to radio and watching TV from other areas on my Canadian satellite service. This includes opposite-coast HD from all four networks and PBS. On E*, there are still locals from major metropolitan areas on the conus feeds. Many of us are from somewhere else, and have ties (friends and interest) in other cities. It would hardly cost E* or D* anything to offer a limited a-la-carte tier of radio and TV programming from out-of-area major cities. Of course none of this would happen until the MPEG-4 conversion is well underway. But here's hoping.


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