# Reception Problem



## bleneau

I cannot receive my local CBS station with my rooftop directional antenna (Philips MANT-901). Here is what antennaweb has for my location:

** green - uhf WISC-DT 3.1 CBS MADISON WI 317° 29.2 50 *
red - uhf WHA 21 PBS MADISON WI 317° 29.2 21 
red - uhf WKOW 27 ABC MADISON WI 317° 29.2 27 
* red - uhf WKOW-DT 27.1 ABC MADISON WI 317° 29.2 26 
red - uhf WMSN 47 FOX MADISON WI 317° 29.2 47 
* red - vhf WMSN-DT 47.1 FOX MADISON WI 317° 29.2 11 
red - uhf WMTV 15 NBC MADISON WI 321° 27.3 15 
red - uhf WBUW 57 CW JANESVILLE WI 321° 27.3 57 
* blue - uhf WBUW-DT 57.1 CW JANESVILLE WI 321° 27.3 32 
* blue - uhf WMTV-DT 15.1 NBC MADISON WI 321° 27.3 19 
blue - vhf WISC 3 CBS MADISON WI 317° 29.2 3 
* blue - uhf WHA-DT 21.1 PBS MADISON WI 317° 29.2 20 
blue - uhf W65EE 19 TBN JANESVILLE WI 147° 7.9 19 
blue - uhf WIFR 23 CBS FREEPORT IL 185° 31.6 23 
blue - vhf WREX 13 NBC ROCKFORD IL 192° 32.0 13 
violet - uhf WQRF 39 FOX ROCKFORD IL 185° 32.0 39 
violet - uhf WTVO 17 ABC ROCKFORD IL 185° 32.2 17

According to antenna web, it is green, and I should be able to get it. I've already got a preamp on the antenna, and I can get most of the other channels ok. (47.1 is VHF, which is where I am aiming my antenna, and can go in and out, but 3-1 is from the same location). The UHF channels are all 4 degrees off, but I receive them good (except for 57-1, which, strangely, is on the same tower as 15-1, which I can get in good).

When I used the Terk HDTVa indoor antenna (which died after 3 weeks), I received them all better that my outdoor antenna, especially 3-1, including 47-1, which was even stronger. I have the line split 3 ways in the basement, and one of those lines is split behind the TV to go to the TV and the HR20. I get no better reception when I went straight to the TV. I tried using a distribution amplifier, but it makes my reception worse on all TVs, even on one TV.

Does anyone have any possible solutions so I can receive my HDTV signal any better? I can get channel 3 in pretty good, for VHF, but no 3-1, which is channel 50 and UHF. Could that be causing some type of problem?


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## Tower Guy

bleneau said:


> I cannot receive my local CBS station with my rooftop directional antenna (Philips MANT-901). Here is what antennaweb has for my location:
> 
> ** green - uhf WISC-DT 3.1 CBS MADISON WI 317° 29.2 50 *
> 
> Does anyone have any possible solutions so I can receive my HDTV signal any better? I can get channel 3 in pretty good, for VHF, but no 3-1, which is channel 50 and UHF. Could that be causing some type of problem?


You may have preamp overload from a nearby FM radio station. WJVL is close to you. You may not need the preamp, try bypassing it. If the preamp has an FM trap, turn it on.

For preamps without an FM trap, this filter goes between the antenna and preamp.
https://www.tselectronic.com/winegard/ft7500.html?tse_Session=197b65d538f9979f827354b63c2a76ec

Channel 50 is on the 7th harmonic of WJVL.


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## bleneau

I'll have to give it a try. Unfortunately, checking the local Radio Shacks, they are don't carry FM traps anymore, so I'll have to order one online.


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## oljim

What preamp do you have?


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## bleneau

I'm not sure. I can't find the box for it. I do have the instructions, but there is no brand name on it whatsoever. The only description it gives is Mast Mounted Outdoor An tenna Amplifier. It came in a mostly red box, I got it at Menards for $45. I have seen it somewhere else recently, but I can't quite remember where at.

The preamp is rectangular and I have a 300 ohm twin lead from the antenna to the top of the preamp (I found that this gave much better reception than a coax cable and transformer for some reason, I don't know). At the bottom, I have an RG-6 cable that runs into the house into the amplifier that cam with it (I could've also used the 300 ohm twin lead, but chose not to).


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## oljim

Did you try without the amp?


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## oljim

I think your ant is screwed up, and you should not need a amp for stations under 40 miles.
I am 41 miles from my stations and get all of them with signal of 85 -100 with a CM 4228 with no amp.


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## bleneau

I did try skipping the amp inside, but I got only very snowy channels, and no HD channels. It was still going throught the preamp, so I don't know if that made a difference.


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## oljim

With the amp (at ant.) still hooked up and powersupply (inside) inhooked will kill signal.
Both parts must be removed to test.


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## bleneau

This past weekend, I went up to the roof and connected the twin Lead wire with the coax through an adapter, skipping the preamp on the mast and the amplifier inside. I got a much better better picture on all channels, and then I replaced the twin lead with RG6 quad shield and and a matching transformer and I got channel 3 pretty much perfect (even though the digital signal is what I am looking for). So, after that, I replaced all the cable heading into the house with RG6 quad shield, and tried it using the preamp and without it. 

When I was going through the preamp, most of the channels came in good (still can't get 57.1 at all, channels 3.1 and 3.2 came in better than before, but would still cut out, and channel 47.1 (which is VHF 11) only came in at 40%. When I would skip the preamp on the mast (but still hooked up to the amplifier that came with it inside) and used a two way distributer amp inside by the TV where I split the line (one going to the TV, and one goiong to the HR20), I got the same reception results as before, except now, 47.1 comes in at 85%. Channel 3-1 and 3-2 come in good, but occasionally cut out, and still no 57-1 (which I can get using an indoor antenna).

One other thing of note is that I am using a 4 wayy splitter to between the amplifieer in side and the distribution amp behind my upstairs TV (I have additional lines going into the bedroom and the basement, so I am only using 3 of the 4). 

I would like to get 3-1 where it doesn't cut out at all, since that is CBS and I watch a lot of shows on that channel, and I would like to get 57-1 in (even though I can't figure out why I don't get any signal from that channel because I get the SD channel in pretty good). Would it be better for me to add a 4 way distribution amp where I have the splitter in the basement, or try using a stonger amplifier to replace the one that came with the preamp, since I am not using the outdor part of it?


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## oljim

The indoor part is not an amp, just a power supply for the outside unit.
Take it out of your system.
Did you try to repoint your antenna to improve ch 3-1 and 57-1
I think there is something not up to par with that ant.


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## Tower Guy

bleneau said:


> One other thing of note is that I am using a 4 wayy splitter to between the amplifieer in side and the distribution amp behind my upstairs TV (I have additional lines going into the bedroom and the basement, so I am only using 3 of the 4).


The use both a preamp and a distibution amp is usually a bad idea. One or the other should suffice, even with 4 splits. With both in line, the second one is sure to overload. In your case, I'd guess that both amplifers are overloaded. Did you try an FM trap yet?


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## bleneau

I'm looking to order one soon. I'm not sure what kind to get, though. Wingard has 2 different models, the FT7500 and the FT7600. Any suggestions?


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## Tower Guy

bleneau said:


> I'm looking to order one soon. I'm not sure what kind to get, though. Wingard has 2 different models, the FT7500 and the FT7600. Any suggestions?


Get the 7500. It attenuates the whole band without adjustments. You have to manually adjust the 7600 to the correct frequency(s). There's no advantage with the tunable filter unless you need to receive a channel 6.


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## bleneau

I got the FM trap today, and hooked it up. Works great, I can now get 57-1 in. One thing is that the signal is really jumpy on the channel, where it goes out a little bit. I think it could be the wind that is affecting it. There are 30-35 mph winds outside right now.


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## Tower Guy

bleneau said:


> I got the FM trap today, and hooked it up. Works great, I can now get 57-1 in. One thing is that the signal is really jumpy on the channel, where it goes out a little bit. I think it could be the wind that is affecting it. There are 30-35 mph winds outside right now.


As George Pepard of the "A Team" used to say: "I love it when a plan comes togther."

The wind may be blowing the antenna itself, or moving trees in front of the antenna.
You can: Stiffen the antenna mount. Move the antenna to avoid the trees. Try slightly reaiming the antenna. Or decide to live with it.


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## bleneau

Unfortunately, I may be forced to live with it. Other than trying to aim better, there isn't much else I can do. There are trees all around my house. As a matter of fact, there was only one place in the whole yard where I could my satellite dish, and that is 60 feet off the rear of the garage.

So when it warms up a little (it's freezing and windy this weekend), I'll have to aim it a little better.

But, thanks, that FM trap works wonders. I may even get a multidirectional antenna, because the Rockford stations are coming in much better now also because of it.


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