# Direct TV East/ West Coast feeds HDTV Signals?



## gaz (Aug 26, 2005)

Can those Direct TV customers who qualify for Distant NBC, CBS, and ABC feeds receive HD signals? I heard that Dish customers can receive CBSHD signals? It seems someone told me that Direct TV does not send out HD signals from its East and West coast stations.


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

D* does have HD feeds from the big 4 networks on both coasts. To qualify for reception, the customer needs waivers from any local station having rights to the programming. There is a blanket waiver for those whose local station is owned and operated by the parent network. Customers entitled to reception get it from one coast or the other. All my locals are O&O so I'm getting them for example. A subscription to either the HD package or local programming is also required.


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## bigbw (Jun 25, 2003)

i have waivers from all 4 networks in my town.. I get sd feeds from both NY and LA and HD feeds from LA only..


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## gaz (Aug 26, 2005)

So if I were to qualify for an east coast feed it would mean I receive SD rather than HDTV feeds?


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

Where did you get that from? If you have a waiver, you'd be eligible for SD plus HD if you have an HD receiver. If you have an O&O local, and no waiver, HD only.


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

greywolf said:


> Where did you get that from? If you have a waiver, you'd be eligible for SD plus HD if you have an HD receiver. If you have an O&O local, and no waiver, HD only.


Actually, I had D* turn off an HD feed of mine the other day. 3 CSRs have all told me that I need to apply for HD waivers even though I have waivers for that channel and was getting it in HD. Sometimes I think they go through the list of costumers and decide to mess with people.


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## bullitt (Apr 27, 2002)

greywolf said:


> Where did you get that from? If you have a waiver, you'd be eligible for SD plus HD if you have an HD receiver. If you have an O&O local, and no waiver, HD only.


Unfortunately you're wrong, they pulled HD Distant Nets on August 30. There are no waivers available for HD just SD.


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

If individual waivers can't get HD channels any more, it's news to me. As far as O&O local stations with blanket waivers go though, right this minute I have CBSE on 80, NBCE on 82, NBCE on 86, and FOXE on 88 in the Chicago area.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

How come I can't find any info at all on this on the DirecTV site? Shouldn't I be able to go there and see if any of MY locals are O&O so that I can find out if I'd get them in HD if I switched to DirecTV? All I can find on ANY of the big-4 networks in HD on the DirecTV site is a section that says you might get locals in HD with an OTA antenna. Nothing at all about anyone getting any HD networks via satellite. Is this listed somewhere?

- John...


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

Do a search on HD owned and operated and you'll get a link for each network. For example, the info on CBS HD is at http://www.directv.com/see/landing/cbs_hd.html


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Thanks -- just after posting, I found listings for all of them in Wikipedia. Unfortunately, none of my big-4 are O&O...

Out of curiosity, is there any area where all four local networks are O&O? Gotta be some HD-happy people there! 

- John...

P.S. Does doing a service-address in such an area still work?


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

jgoggan said:


> Out of curiosity, is there any area where all four local networks are O&O? Gotta be some HD-happy people there!


Still curious if anyone lives in such an area and, if so, do they therefore get all of their HD locals (well, the Big-4, at least) via DirecTV?

- John...


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

Only the New York and LA areas get HD locals until the Mpeg4 stuff is released. The other O&O areas get NY or LA feeds. Besides NY and LA, Chicago has all four O&O as well as some other big cities.


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## Art (Sep 10, 2003)

now i'm a bit confused here. Where I live (San Francisco Bay Area) I can't get locals with an outdoor antenna because the signal is too weak. I do get SD locals with D* but I don't get the locals in HD, not even NY or LA version. Any way for me to watch ABC, PBS, etc. in HD?

Thanks,
Art


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## ocnier (May 8, 2003)

jgoggan said:


> Still curious if anyone lives in such an area and, if so, do they therefore get all of their HD locals (well, the Big-4, at least) via DirecTV?
> 
> - John...


Yes sort of, DFW is one of where I get HD locals over the air (OTA) by antenna and HD distant feeds as well by satellite. I get all the big four in HD via directv, which is awesome as well as OTA. A few notes for ya though concerning LIL HD. I noticed the other weekend that SNL on NBC for local affiliate through OTA was not in HD. I changed to the east coast feed through D* and the show actually was. This presents a problem in future. When D* offers HD LIL if the sending station isn't transmittiong (basically not doing their job) then you won't see the program in HD. This is not D*'s fault, but it does present a future impasse to the end consumer. This is why I highly recommend even for LIL markets in the future that subs still push for east/west coast feeds.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Let's get this back on track...


bullitt said:


> Unfortunately you're wrong, they pulled HD Distant Nets on August 30. There are no waivers available for HD just SD.


No, they didn't pull the HD distant network service on 30 August. DirecTV's new policy, which is based upon the SHVERA law signed on 8 December, 2004, is to give a qualifying customer one set of HD feeds based upon the time-zone in which they live. Eastern and Central receive the New York feeds; Mountain and Pacific Time Zones receive the Los Angeles feeds.

And there is a waiver process. Go here, for DirecTV's HD qualification and waiver submission page.


jgoggan said:


> Out of curiosity, is there any area where all four local networks are O&O? Gotta be some HD-happy people there!


Alright. Pay attention...

The HD feeds being used by DirecTV are from New York and Los Angeles. Since these channels are local to those markets, they are available in the local channel package for each market. Yes, all four networks are owned-and-operated (O&O).

People that are *only* within the Grade B contours of owned-and-operated network stations automatically qualify for the blanket waiver. For example, I live in the Baltimore DMA, and WJZ is a CBS O&O. However, I do not qualify because I get a great signal from the Gannett-owned WUSA, the CBS in DC.

There are only two other markets where all big four network affiliates are O&O: Philadelphia and Chicago. If you are on the outskirts of transmission zone, it is possible you may be claimed by neighboring affiliates, and the blanket waiver doesn't apply to those affiliates.


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## Art (Sep 10, 2003)

can somebody please tell what channels West/East Coast locals are available in HD?


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

Why can't you have East and West of the HD feeds??? We still get the East/West regular channels on 380-389 but now only the East feeds of the HD. Why does it matter if we have East and West on the HD if we already get both on the other?? They act like the HD feeds are so exclusive and they don't want people to have them.


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## greywolf (Jul 13, 2005)

FCC SHVERA regulations are involved. http://www.dbstalk.com/printthread.php?t=38558&page=1&pp=25 has more information than you ever wanted to see.


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## TotallyPreWired (Jan 8, 2005)

Greg Bimson said:


> And there is a waiver process.
> Go here, for DirecTV's HD qualification and waiver submission page.


Be careful out there! Some of the HD information on this page is bogus. In my case all they did was take the analog info, add '-DT' to the station names, and present the info. Check yours, and see what you get.

I contacted D* about this, and I was notified today that they are sending my info to DecisionMark. If this 'tool' is the reason that I've been denied FOX HD DNS, I'll be pissed.

I don't know how widespread this bad data is, but in my location there is a *huge* difference between analog and digital broadcasting.

If anyone finds that their data is also bad, please let us know!
....jc


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Greg Bimson said:


> And there is a waiver process. Go here, for DirecTV's HD qualification and waiver submission page.Alright. Pay attention...


So, if I can allegedly pick up some other DMA's digital broadcast, then I still wouldn't qualify? Even though it isn't my DMA -- is that correct?

For example, the Fox for my DMA is 55 miles away with nowhere near enough power to reach me -- even with my nice 8-bay and a preamp installed. Even according to them, I can't get them.

However, our DMA is very poorly laid out. I actually have another Fox from the next DMA over that has a tower only 45 miles away. If I can pick up that one, would I then be disqualified from getting a distant Fox?

On a side note, all that being said -- the data is definitely wrong at that site. The Fox that it mentions for me (again, the tower is 45 miles away) is listed as "Grade A (strong signal)". However, I spoke with their tech guy just a few weeks ago and he informed me that they are broadcasting very, very low power -- that just barely gets a signal out about 10 miles total intended to cover the local city only (a small city of about 25,000 people). There is no way that I'm getting a "Grade A (strong signal)" from a tower 45 miles away that even they admit barely covers 10 miles... :nono:

- John...


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## TotallyPreWired (Jan 8, 2005)

jgoggan said:


> So, if I can allegedly pick up some other DMA's digital broadcast, then I still wouldn't qualify? Even though it isn't my DMA -- is that correct?


Based on the valid analog info that they are giving me, the answer is Yes. This software crosses DMA boundries. And, for the 2 networks(analog) that they say that I can receive, 1 is in the Colorado Springs DMA, and 1 is in the Denver DMA. Now, for me, since the HD data is bogus, who knows? I'm sure that the same rules apply(but it gets way more complicated than that when fully implemented).

The trouble is that they no longer give you the analog results if D* is providing locals to your locale. So, comparisons are now more difficult. So, it's hard to tell if they are using the wrong data.
....jc


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Ok -- thanks for the info. Sounds like I am in a similar situation to you. If the HD data was accurate, I'd probably be fine. But, since it isn't, I'm out of luck for now.

I just emailed the station again to confirm that nothing has changed since we last spoke about power and tower location -- just to make sure that the HD data used on that web site is bogus for me too.

Note that I just want the networks in HD. I'd be FINE getting them via OTA. In fact, I've spent quite a bit and took a lot of time trying to do so. But, since I CAN'T get them via OTA at this point, I just want them via satellite instead... (Some people that can get them via OTA just seem like they don't want to bother and "demand" that they get them over satellite. I'm just saying that isn't me -- I'd be quite fine with OTA -- even though I'd have to buy a different receiver to be able to DVR it...)

- John...


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Pay close attention....

As of right now, the qualification for distant digital network service is exactly the same as it is for distant network service. To qualify for distant digital network service, you must not be able to get a signal of at least Grade B intensity for any network affiliate. Notice I did not say "at least Grade B intensity for any *digital* network affiliate."

So, if you get the analog version, you do not qualify for the digital version. That is because the rules for digital qualification have not been created at this time. The FCC is taking comments on the rulemaking now.


Link said:


> Why can't you have East and West of the HD feeds??? We still get the East/West regular channels on 380-389 but now only the East feeds of the HD.


Without looking at the link that greywolf provided, the SHVERA law states that a customer is only allowed two HD feeds from their time zone or later. Since DirecTV is only offering New York and Los Angeles as distant feeds, People in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones are only eligible for Los Angeles. It is my belief that DirecTV decided to even the playing field for the rest of the country, and executed their own policy: if the western US subscribers are only allowed one HD feed per network, then the entire nation is only allowed one HD feed per network. The people in Mountain and Pacific are adhering to the SHVERA law by only receiving HD feeds from Los Angeles, the people in the Eastern and Central zones only receive the HD feeds from New York because it is DirecTV's policy.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Greg Bimson said:


> Pay close attention....


I don't know if you are doing this on purpose or not, but you really need to stop saying that. It comes off as arrogant and condescending. I ignored it the first time, but it hits the same way this time. People are trying here -- repeatedly telling them to "pay attention" when they ask about the (admittedly confusing) laws and regulations related to getting distants is just rude and annoying.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you trying to help -- but please try not to be offensive about it when you do so...



> So, if you get the analog version, you do not qualify for the digital version. That is because the rules for digital qualification have not been created at this time.


Ok -- so that is why the site says that I should have a "Grade A" signal for Fox even though their digital output is so low powered -- because it is being based their analog one.

- John...


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

I don't mean to be condescending. To me, it is a very important piece of information that should not be overlooked. In many other posts, I have posted important information, only for it to be overlooked. We all need to be on the same page understanding these rules.

I had posted this information on another board. It was pretty much ignored. It should not be ignored. People need to understand exactly what the problems are, what the data is and what the processes are. Then, if people use the search function, they'll understand why these issues are in existance, and where we go from here.

That is one of the main problems of the internet these days. People posting rumor as fact.


bullitt said:


> Unfortunately you're wrong, they pulled HD Distant Nets on August 30.


I only want to provide helpful, accurate information, unlike the quote above. That is exactly why I am asking for people to pay attention. Trust me, I debated whether or not to add the statement both times, but it makes people read the material which follows.

Please feel free to hammer me on it again if I continue to do it. I am not condescending; I am trying to be helpful. I certainly can understand how it could be construed as condescending.


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## JohnMI (Apr 2, 2002)

Greg Bimson said:


> I don't mean to be condescending.


Well that, at least, is good. But it did come off that way -- both times -- just so you know.



> To me, it is a very important piece of information that should not be overlooked. In many other posts, I have posted important information, only for it to be overlooked.


Don't treat all of us like fools just because some people are. 



> Then, if people use the search function, they'll understand why these issues are in existance, and where we go from here.


Indeed -- although a great deal of the problem is the wording by DirecTV on the search page. It clearly makes it sound like that is the strength of the digital station they are listing -- not that it might actually be the analog strength -- meaning that you might not at all be able to get that digital signal OTA -- but still wouldn't qualify for it via distant because you can pick up the analog. Hopefully the law will change regarding that -- but, at this point, it appears that's just the way it is.



> Trust me, I debated whether or not to add the statement both times, but it makes people read the material which follows.


I'm not convinced that it does. I think it just makes some people ignore you. 



> Please feel free to hammer me on it again if I continue to do it. I am not condescending; I am trying to be helpful.


Indeed - you've given me significant knowledge on this. Thanks.

- John...


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## mattsarz (Jan 14, 2005)

Greg,

I think I'm starting to grasp some of this, but as I read this, it sounds different than my dealings with D* over the weekend (and maybe its CSRs I dealt with).

-Live in Cleveland, OH DMA. No other grade B stations from other DMAs can claim me.
-WJW, Fox O&O, is in my market
-D* is putting me through the waiver process, although what I've read I shouldn't have to go through the waiver process.

Should I continue to play CSR roulette or are they in the right?


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## TotallyPreWired (Jan 8, 2005)

jgoggan said:


> Indeed -- although a great deal of the problem is the wording by DirecTV on the search page. It clearly makes it sound like that is the strength of the digital station they are listing -- not that it might actually be the analog strength -- meaning that you might not at all be able to get that digital signal OTA -- but still wouldn't qualify for it via distant because you can pick up the analog. Hopefully the law will change regarding that -- but, at this point, it appears that's just the way it is.


Since there is even confusion at D* regarding this mess, it's understandable the customers might also be confused.

However:


> Another new provision of SHVERA states that digital distant network signals can be provided by satellite carriers, but eligibility will be based on the existing analog coverage area of the local TV stations. The legislation also requires that the FCC complete an inquiry regarding whether the digital signal strength standard used for determining unserved households needs to be revised. This study must be completed no later than one year after the enactment date of SHVERA (December 8, 2004).


So, I guess that in a few weeks we may know if they are making progress.
....jc


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## mattsarz (Jan 14, 2005)

I hope they take into the account of signal strength. Here's the signal strength of the Big Four in my DMA according to TVRadioWord and the FCC:

WKYC - 93.3 kW analog, 7kW digital (both VHF)
WEWS - 93.3 kW analog, 500 kW digital (analog VHF, digital UHF)
WJW - 236 kW analog, 625 kW digital (analof VHF, digital UHF)
WOIO - 3720 kW analog, 3.5 kW digital (analog UHF, digital VHF)

WJW is the one I get the best signal from, the others are non-existant despite living about 7-8 miles from the broadcast towers. My apt. building appears to be killing much of the signal, but with the low readings from WOIO and WKYC, aren't their signals awfully low to reach beyond a limited area with a OTA digital signal?


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## TotallyPreWired (Jan 8, 2005)

mattsarz said:


> Should I continue to play CSR roulette or are they in the right?


Sure, nothing to loose. Be sure to call the HD #800-263-0028. And if Fox is O & O, I'm not sure why they just don't turn in on for you. They are doing that for the people in Denver(I'm not in the Denver DMA so I'm SOL).

I called them a few months ago trying(for the 1000th time) to get Fox HD. They didn't give me it, but they did turn on ABC for me. I didn't really need it, but it was free so I took it. Now, I've 3 out of 4, just need Fox.  
....jc


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## TotallyPreWired (Jan 8, 2005)

mattsarz said:


> My apt. building appears to be killing much of the signal, but with the low readings from WOIO and WKYC, aren't their signals awfully low to reach beyond a limited area with a OTA digital signal?


You won't know till you try. I'm 53 miles from a 'transmitter' in Denver that is putting out a wopping 1.9kW, and it's one of my strongest stations. 90% of the folk's in Denver can't receive that station.
....jc


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## mattsarz (Jan 14, 2005)

TotallyPreWired said:


> You won't know till you try. I'm 53 miles from a 'transmitter' in Denver that is putting out a wopping 1.9kW, and it's one of my strongest stations. 90% of the folk's in Denver can't receive that station.
> ....jc


Oh I've tried and FOX comes in the best. My issue is that my apt is on the west end of the building and all the towers are directly east of me, so I've tried an outdoor directional antenna that basically has to point directly back into the building and thats why I think the building (solid steel and brick) is eating up the signal.

And I just got off the phone with DirecTV and they told me that my local Fox station has DENIED my HD waiver. Not exactly a blanket waiver by any means.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

mattsarz said:


> -Live in Cleveland, OH DMA. No other grade B stations from other DMAs can claim me.
> -WJW, Fox O&O, is in my market
> -D* is putting me through the waiver process, although what I've read I shouldn't have to go through the waiver process.


Even though there is a blanket waiver, I believe DirecTV is still pushing this through their normal channels. I have heard the waiver process is still being followed even in O&O areas. This is all supposition:

DirecTV never changed the database they use for CSR's that determines eligibility. Therefore, it shows up that waivers are required, even though the blanket waiver is in place. I'll also assume that there is a department relegated solely to processing waivers, and that when a zip code hits that allows the blanket waiver to be used, the waiver is then granted.

From what I've read, it only takes a couple of days to get the blanket waivers set up on a customer account.


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## mattsarz (Jan 14, 2005)

Greg Bimson said:


> From what I've read, it only takes a couple of days to get the blanket waivers set up on a customer account.


Greg, see my note on the post to yours previously where WJW declined the waiver. I've put in a call to the engineering department to find out why the waiver was declined.


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## aandjw (Nov 30, 2005)

OK - so we are located in So Ca (LA DMA) and have existing East Coast SD waivers from 10 years ago (ABC, NBC, FOX).....About to take the plunge with HD receiver and was told by the D* CSR that the waivers we have would also apply to the East Coast HD stations. That would be the best of all - both East and West HD.

Is that right? Seems not by the earlier posts!

Help!


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## TotallyPreWired (Jan 8, 2005)

aandjw said:


> OK - so we are located in So Ca (LA DMA) and have existing East Coast SD waivers from 10 years ago (ABC, NBC, FOX).....About to take the plunge with HD receiver and was told by the D* CSR that the waivers we have would also apply to the East Coast HD stations. That would be the best of all - both East and West HD.
> 
> Is that right? Seems not by the earlier posts!


That *is not* correct from my experiences(concerning D*). I have 1 SD waiver, and 3 HD waivers. My SD waiver still gets me East & West coast feeds. All of my HD waivers only get me West coast feeds(I used to get East coast feeds, but they cut them off). There are so many variations, but as I understand it, SD waivers are grandfathered, HD are not.
....jc


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