# Goodbye DirecTV - epilogue



## jordanzimmerman (Jan 20, 2006)

A few weeks ago I posted that I was leaving DirecTV (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94052). Here's the epilogue to that post. Sorry for the length, but I hope you find it informative.

Summary
========
The new cable-card enabled Tivo HD box is an exceptional device. It's loaded with great features and is very easy to use. I'm very happy that I've decided to make the switch. DirecTV has taken Tivo users for granted for far too long. Not only are they pushing an inferior product, they've kept the Tivo from getting great new features that have come along over the years. The only negative has been cable-card setup - which took far too long.

Background
==========
I have been a DirecTV subscriber for approximately 12 years. DirecTV has always provided a great product and great service. My main reasons for subscribing to DirecTV have been content and picture quality. Cable, especially 12 years ago, could not come close to matching DirecTV's product offering.

Not long after DirecTV came into my home, I subscribed to the very first Tivo service. The combination of Tivo and DirecTV was phenomenal. Tivo has always been an elegant, wondrous device. I heard that some former Apple people were involved with its development. Even if that isn't true, the way that Tivo does things evokes the way Apple does things. Nirvana in TV viewing came a few years later when DirecTV and Tivo created a merged product. While very expensive, it was the absolute pinnacle of what TV could and should be.

Of course, it was too good to be true. Somewhere in a meeting room deep in the heart of DirecTV, an idea began to form that DirecTV didn't need Tivo. The Tivo references on the combined DirecTivo device started to disappear. DirecTV started talking about and then offering a non Tivo DVR which by most reports is inferior to Tivo. I didn't mind this too much, my DirecTivo box still worked well.

But, we all know what came next. The last blow to Tivo was DirecTV's switch to a new encoding format and their position that DirecTivo boxes wouldn't work with the new format. I was told that my only choice was to accept their inferior DVR.

This 'Aint Your Daddy's Cable
=============================
What exactly is DirecTV? They don't create any content. They are, essentially, a conduit to deliver video developed by others. In 1995, my local cable company didn't offer very much. In 2007, they offer everything that DirecTV offers and a lot of stuff that they don't. My user interface to this content has been Tivo for the past 10 years. With Comcast, I can retain that great user interface and get the same content. The choice is easy.

Another thing: I didn't realize how far behind the DirecTivo box is from where modern Tivo boxes are. My anger at DirecTV is doubled now that I know this. The Tivo HD is so much better than the DirecTivo that it's hard to list all the improvements. Here are a few:

* Web-based scheduling of shows

* Home media - this is much cooler than I thought it would be. It's like having an AppleTV. Plus, there's a bunch of Tivo-specific content that you can get: the Onion, C/Net, etc. Yes, a lot of the stuff you can get is already on the web, but Tivo does a great job of integrating it.

* Swivel Search

* Internet connection for all Tivo guided setup, channels, etc. No phone connection.

* Amazon Unbox. This is really nice. I've already rented a few movies.

* Tons of subtle and not-so-subtle user interface improvements over the DirecTivo.

Bumpy Road to Cablecard
=======================
The only negative to all of this was the installation. It was a nightmare. However, through all of it Comcast customer service has been surprisingly good.

* Called Comcast. They scheduled an install for the very next day.

* Guy got there and it turned out that there was no connection to my house. Had to schedule special work for that (no charge).

* 1 week later (!) the connection was made to my house. Then, had to schedule a cablecard install.

* The cablecard installer came on Saturday (nice!) and finished the connections. But, the local Comcast office ran out of cablecards that day and the remaining part of the install had to wait. At least I had 30 channels of basic cable at that point.

* The following Tuesday, the installer came with the cablecards. He was very green. He'd only done 1 cablecard install before. I was worried. Two hours later, I suggested that he try another cablecard (I've read here that there are lots of bad ones). He relented and tried another. We got a bit farther, but still no dice. Two more hours and he gave up. He scheduled their top "cablecard installer" to come on Thursday.

* It turns out that the guy on Tuesday was using an "M" card and they don't seem to work in the Tivo HD (at least not with my local Comcast). This guy used two standard cards and it was working within an hour. I have all my channels and it works beautifully. I had that feeling I had when I first used the dual tuner DirecTivo.

* Because of all the trouble I had to go through, my local Comcast rep gave me a free month of service. Nice!

Goodby DirecTV?
===============
Yes, DirecTV, it's been great, but you blew it.


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

It is unfortunate that DirecTV customers never got a modern Tivo for HD. The most common complaint with the HR10 was its slow responsiveness, but the inferior CPU, memory interface, disk interface, and older Tivo software didn't help matters. The HR20 hardware is much closer to what you get with a Tivo Series3.

If you reside in an area with Verizon FiOS or an 860MHz Comcast system, then the TivoHD can be a compelling alternative. You get excellent picture quality and plenty of capacity for new HD channels, with no immediate plans for SDV. 

On the other hand, I would be very hesitant to buy a TivoHD for use with a 750MHz Charter, Comcast, Cox, or Time Warner cable system. All of those systems are short on bandwidth (or soon will be). They'll be forced to adopt SDV to remain competitive, if they haven't already. Tivo can't support SDV because Cable Labs won't allow any manufacturer to support bidirectional (two-way) services with their own interface. If a manufacturer wants to support SDV, they've got to use the cable company interface, and that defeats the point.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Ken_F said:


> Tivo can't support SDV because Cable Labs won't allow any manufacturer to support bidirectional (two-way) services with their own interface. If a manufacturer wants to support SDV, they've got to use the cable company interface, and that defeats the point.


Yup and good luck with that.

My main criteria for choosing a multichannel provider is content, do they have the programing I want? Next, are they competitively priced? Those are the two big things. I can say after nine and a half years, DIRECTV still beats cable in my area for both standards.

Next, DVR and other services and I can say after nearly seven years of using them, TiVo doesn't really distinguish itself for me. TiVo=oVerraTed.


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## Cable Lover (Jun 19, 2007)

Welcome to the world of Cable, Jordan! I'm glad you joined us.:welcome_s


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm glad it worked for you. I was at my dad's house last week with Rochester NY Time-Warner cable. It's simply awful. Horrible box, horrible programming.

Cable can be very good or very bad, depeneding on geography.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Mmmm buh bye. 

I switched from Comcast back in April and don't miss anything. The only programming we're not getting with D* is the MOJO channel and Comcast Sports out of Philly. Being that I can't stand the Eagles and Phillies, it's no real loss. Oh we also don't get the additional advertising Comcast likes to place in their guides. We're also paying less per month for more. With Comcast we only had 1 DVR and one standard box which left 3 bedroom TV's with limited programming. We now have 3 DVR's and each bedroom gets every channel we pay for. Kind of nice.

I am glad you're happy with Comcast though. That's one of the great things about this country. We have so many TV choices. 

Cheers! :goodjob:


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

Enjoy those monthly Tivo fees, too.


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## ncxcstud (Apr 22, 2007)

jordanzimmerman said:


> What exactly is DirecTV? They don't create any content. They are, essentially, a conduit to deliver video developed by others.


Isn't that what most cable/satellite providers are? Just a medium for people to see all the programs they want from the same place?


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## uncrules (Dec 20, 2005)

Enjoy your Tivo box when SDV hits your market.


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## crendall (Jun 27, 2006)

I'd go with the provider that has the channels I want first, and not worry about what box they are using. In my opinion the HR20 is a better box than Tivo. I like the interface better than Tivo and it's much faster. Plus, in a couple weeks I'll have a ton more HD to watch!


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## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

uncrules said:


> Enjoy your Tivo box when SDV hits your market.


Yep and wait until everyone starts channel surfing during commercials. :lol:


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

jordanzimmerman said:


> With Comcast, I can retain that great user interface and get the same content. The choice is easy.


Comcast? Same HD content? 

Comcast is more money for the same package + cost of TIVO hardware + cost of TIVO monthly fee + Franchise/FCC/Peg Fee that D* doesn't charge _for less HD_.

And now if they switch to SDV, you have the same problem you complained that D* put you in - a switch in formats that renders your expensive box _useless_.

How does that improve your position?


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

jordanzimmerman said:


> What exactly is DirecTV? They don't create any content. They are, essentially, a conduit to deliver video developed by others.


Actually, that has become an incorrect statement. D* _DOES_ create original, won't see anywhere else content. It may not be the sort of content you want to watch, but D* has a lot of programming on Channel 101 that is not available anywhere else.


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## RandybinSC (Aug 6, 2007)

Obviously every experience is going to be different. For me it was opposite for me. I had Comcast and switched to D a month ago. Have not missed Comcast one bit, everything is better. Well I guess the only thing I would like is my locals in HD, otherwise it is all better. But next month when we get more HD channels it will be worth the loss of my local HD channels.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Thing is, nobody likes to have their personal choices insulted, hence the offended parties when cable or D* or E* are the butt of insults. In my opinion, they all serve up mostly the same tired old dreck, and you make your personal choice as to what pipe you want your sewage brought in on :lol:


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

jordanzimmerman said:


> A few weeks ago I posted that I was leaving DirecTV (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94052). Here's the epilogue to that post. Sorry for the length, but I hope you find it informative.
> 
> Summary
> ========
> ...


Well, like a cranky old lady I knew used to say, "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!" :lol:


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

It must act as some kind of self-therarpy.

Do these posters think anyone cares that they change service?

And - I'm talking about ALL of them. The ones leaving D*, the ones leaving E*, the ones leaving Cable, etc.

*Thousands* of people change providers every month. WTF is the big deal?


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## morbid_fun (Jan 16, 2007)

TIVO is good, but I believe too many people overrate TIVO. I have a better experience with my R15-500 than I had with my R10.

Good luck with cable.


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## psunate77 (Aug 18, 2007)

As someone who just switched from Comcast, let me say good bye. I was a huge Comcast guy, but after BTN (Which I don't fault Comcast for) and the NFL Network leaving, that was it. Now there was word that my local sports station was going in a sports package deal. WTF? Comcast changes stations too much and hikes prices.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

ScoBuck said:


> It must act as some kind of self-therarpy.


I think you hit the nail pretty darn close to right on the head!

It's his one last parting shot at someone who he felt betrayed him (pu-lease!). I've seen a lot of TiVo lovers that have tried the HR20 and found that it really isn't devil-spawn. I've also seen TiVo lovers that feel so strongly about it that they just can't deal with anything else. Then go where it makes you happy.

I seriously doubt that his post will have TiVo lovers leaving in droves. But if it makes him feel better to post, then post away, friend.


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## uncrules (Dec 20, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> It must act as some kind of self-therarpy.
> 
> Do these posters think anyone cares that they change service?
> 
> ...


+1


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## donshan (Jun 18, 2007)

I think it is great that those in the large DMA markets have a decent cable system. That competition keeps D* and E* pushing hard too. We wouldn't have D10 & D11 HD if it was not for the competitive desire by the sat companies to win customers away from cable.

My Charter cable keeps calling me trying to get me to sign up for phone service, but HDTV is never mentioned in their promos. During the last Charter marketing call on adding phone service, I changed the subject to HDTV, since I have the mistaken idea that Cable TV was supposed to provide TV service. I asked the Charter rep about expanding their HD tier (10 channels including the extra cost HD movies) and if they were ever going to add our FOX-HD local Broadcast station to their cable HD lineup, and their rep replied: " What is HDTV? Is it any better?". Since my Charter cable does not yet even offer a HD DVR, it is no contest for me to stay with D*.

Good luck and keep both cable and sat companies worried about keeping their existing customers.


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## Wildcat (Oct 3, 2006)

Glad you're happy with your choice. With what I have through DirecTv, there is no cable company available to me that could match them.

DirecTv is starting to get far too many "cable-like" qualities for my liking...there is a reason I will do all I can not to use cable companies...and DirecTv is starting to mimic some of those traits.


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## convem24 (Mar 11, 2007)

I had a friend who stayed who go the new TivoHD. He prepaid 3 years service also. After I told him SDV would not work and he would be at the mercy of Comcast to get additional content (I think they will use SDV for the foreseeable future because of limiting capitol costs) he was not a happy camper but the problem is he cannot transfer his prepaid 3 years of service to someone else (that is why I am never for prepaid). I think once customers who got TIVOHD receivers realize that their availaiblity to additional HD content will be hampered by the fact that SDV is only supported by cable receivers the whole "amount of content" argument will go out the window. 

D* uses the HR20 which is now a worthy replacement for the HR10, I still run into people who think otherwise but I got used to the programming interface of the HR20 and with the new HD channels coming out it was a new brainer to get the HR20. I would really have to say good riddance to subscribers who are like that. Don't let the door hit you on the butt.


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## wismile (Jul 20, 2006)

I switched from Comcast to DirecTV and back to Comcast (for local HD)...oh yeah...then DirecTV started offering most of my local channels in HD, so I went back. I agree DirecTV alienated many TIVO lovers (me included). Anyone that compares any DirecTIVO to the R15 or HR20 isn't considering all the great TIVO features DirecTV hasn't passed along. All that being said I have come to like the HR20 and the more TIVO like features they add the more I like it. It still isn't as stable as my TIVO is, but they're getting there. Add dual buffers and the rest of the long promised features and I may even love the HR20. 

The bottom line is people all have their opinion and TIVO has far too many followers for DirecTV to continue ignoring them. Why not give us the choice and charge a premium to those customers that prefer the TIVO features and interface?


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## wismile (Jul 20, 2006)

morbid_fun said:


> TIVO is good, but I believe too many people overrate TIVO. I have a better experience with my R15-500 than I had with my R10.
> 
> Good luck with cable.


I'm curious...how long have you owned an R15?


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## jordanzimmerman (Jan 20, 2006)

I'm not too concerned about SDV. I was talking to the Comcast Tech and he's not too concerned abou bandwidth. He said they have plenty of bandwidth and pretty soon they'll be getting rid of standard-def and that will free up tons of bandwidth. In any event, I reserve the right to go back to DirecTV in the future


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

jordanzimmerman said:


> I'm not too concerned about SDV. I was talking to the Comcast Tech and he's not too concerned abou bandwidth. He said they have plenty of bandwidth and pretty soon they'll be getting rid of standard-def and that will free up tons of bandwidth. In any event, I reserve the right to go back to DirecTV in the future


That depends on your system.

As I noted in the second post, Comcast customers on newer 860MHz and 1GHz systems don't really have to worry about SDV. Some of those systems have capacity for 100+ new HD channels today without SDV. It is customers on older 750MHz systems with 70+ analog channels that have to worry. Those systems may have capacity for 10-20 new HD channels, but beyond that, they'll need to drop more analogs or use SDV.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any published specification list for Comcast systems. It's doubtful that a customer service rep could tell you whether the system in your market is 750MHz, 860MHz, or 1Ghz. If you have a QAM tuner, it is pretty easy to tell. The 750MHz systems tend to max out at channel 110-115 while the 860MHz systems have 135. Every unused channel slot provides capacity for two HD channels @ 19.4Mbps, three HD channels @ 13Mbps, or about four HD channels @ DirecTV's MPEG-2 quality level.

The NCTA announced this week that they will help develop a USB adapter to allow CableCard boxes like the TivoHD to support SDV, but realistically, such a device is probably at least 12-18 months off.


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## MLock (Aug 2, 2007)

Comcast, in my area, has pretty nice service, good picture, etc., but it is the company itself I cannot, and will no longer, deal with. They are absolutely evil to customers and incompetent as technicians.

When they wanted to buy the Walt Disney company, it felt to me like Satan was trying to buy heaven.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

jordanzimmerman said:



> A few weeks ago I posted that I was leaving DirecTV (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94052). Here's the epilogue to that post. Sorry for the length, but I hope you find it informative.
> 
> Summary
> ========
> ...


Enjoy your huge rate hikes!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Thing is, nobody likes to have their personal choices insulted, hence the offended parties when cable or D* or E* are the butt of insults. In my opinion, they all serve up mostly the same tired old dreck, and you make your personal choice as to what pipe you want your sewage brought in on :lol:


Amen...actually choosing the pipe can be important because some give you better ways to sift through the drek to find the occasional nugget of silver worth watching.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I've always been facinated at the "need" for posters to have to tell some kind of elongated "goodbye story" when they switch. What bizarre therapeutic need is there do do a brain dump on their experience out the door? 

For every one of these, I can easily find you 10 stories of people dumping cable because of their expereinces with defective or inferior equipment issues, poor customer service, high prices, blah blah blah.

Whoopee. 

This guy has to write his life history on his way out the door?

Many happy trails.

_[Don't be surprised if in a year or so, he's back to D*TV - that happens all the time.]_

I'm sure we'll welcome him back with open arms.


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

I gave away my HR10-250 - and the lad I gave it to is giving it one of his cousins further down the line now that D* has [most of] the locals in mpg4. He couldn't receive anything OTA at his home.

I'll be getting a 2nd HR20 when I get my 2nd HDTV - no problem - next 6 months.

Once a year I stop by the local Comcast office - I get my broadband from them. HD PQ sucks. Their offerings suck. Customer svce [on the TV side] is worse than sucks.

Just sitting here waiting for D10 to light up.


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## jordanzimmerman (Jan 20, 2006)

I'm not concerned about SDV. In fact, it looks like it may not be an issue after all: http://ibc.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=175784


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## Ken984 (Jan 1, 2006)

I wouldn't hold my breath on that coming to market, another "new" gadget to make cable work right. 2 way cable cards have been "in development" for a LONG time now and still they are not available. The idea that it should all just work together is a joke. How many horror stories have been written about getting the one way cards to work? None of the providers are perfect for everybody, find the perfect one for you and enjoy it.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> I'm glad it worked for you. I was at my dad's house last week with Rochester NY Time-Warner cable. It's simply awful. Horrible box, horrible programming.
> 
> Cable can be very good or very bad, depeneding on geography.


Please explain. I have Time Warner out of Rochester, and it beats DirecTV in every way, shape and form. Picture quality is better (I've done A/B comparisons), more movie channels, customer services, reliability is flat out EXCELLENT, prices are about the same if you are a higher end subscriber, not that pricing matters, I don't mind paying more for cable because they are the superior provider for me and I don't mind paying more for quality. My HD DVRs have been just as reliable as my old DirecTiVos, never once did I have any problem that DirecTVs new inhouse DVRs have. My 8300HDs have been as solid as a rock, and if something happens it's a 30 ride to the Batavia office for an exchange. And it looks like most of the Rochester area agrees with me, according to a figure I read from the D&C online TW holds 68% of the marketshare in the area for TV, they are the #1 broadband provider and by next year, TW will be Rochester's largest phone provider with more subscribers then Frontier in the region. TW does it right in Rochester, and this is also the test market for new features and services.

Horrible programming, let's see going from DirecTV to TW I lose WGN, TV G, Gol TV, NFL Network, TV One, PBS Kids Sprout (have it on demand though), Nick West, HBO Family West and countless religious and shopping channels I don't care about. But gain about 15 movie channels, tons of content On Demand, and HD channels DirecTV is supposed to have at some point that I've been enjoying for quite sometime now.


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## kikkenit2 (Oct 26, 2006)

Steve Mehs said:


> Please explain. I have Time Warner out of Rochester, and it beats DirecTV in every way, shape and form. Picture quality is better (I've done A/B comparisons), more movie channels, customer services, reliability is flat out EXCELLENT, prices are about the same if you are a higher end subscriber, not that pricing matters, I don't mind paying more for cable because they are the superior provider for me and I don't mind paying more for quality. My HD DVRs have been just as reliable as my old DirecTiVos, never once did I have any problem that DirecTVs new inhouse DVRs have. My 8300HDs have been as solid as a rock, and if something happens it's a 30 ride to the Batavia office for an exchange. And it looks like most of the Rochester area agrees with me, according to a figure I read from the D&C online TW holds 68% of the marketshare in the area for TV, they are the #1 broadband provider and by next year, TW will be Rochester's largest phone provider with more subscribers then Frontier in the region. TW does it right in Rochester, and this is also the test market for new features and services.
> 
> Horrible programming, let's see going from DirecTV to TW I lose WGN, TV G, Gol TV, NFL Network, TV One, PBS Kids Sprout (have it on demand though), Nick West, HBO Family West and countless religious and shopping channels I don't care about. But gain about 15 movie channels, tons of content On Demand, and HD channels DirecTV is supposed to have at some point that I've been enjoying for quite sometime now.


It's amazing how much the quality of Time Warner varies from city to city. My signal is terrible and my friend's 30 miles away is fine. My neighborhood is lot older and I think the wires are corroded. They only had 3 HD channels I don't get on D*. MHD, MOJO, and local ch 9 (Lakers/Dodgers). I'll have everything except mojo in 3 weeks and way more. I had the TW 8000 & 8300 dvr's when they were brand new. They froze up constantly. I had the HR20 when it was brand new. It wasn't much better. They all work fine now and I much prefer any dvr that has a 30 second slip or skip ahead (D* and E*). Cable sometimes has the advantage of offering HD locals and RSN that sat lacks.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> I don't mind paying more for cable


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

wismile said:


> I agree DirecTV alienated many TIVO lovers (me included). Anyone that compares any DirecTIVO to the R15 or HR20 isn't considering all the great TIVO features DirecTV hasn't passed along.


I owned a standalone S2 networked TiVo and if the features you'd find on that are what you refer to, quite frankly I wasn't that impressed. MRV isn't that something I use and certainly not something I'd commit to 3 years to get the $6.95/mo. + tax rate I'd have to pay for an additional TiVo. I found more things I could do with a MCE 2005 that interested me than the standalone TiVo.

I'm not saying those features stink, there just wasn't anything I found I couldn't live without and months later, I've found that to be correct.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Redlinetire said:


>


Nice of you to selective quote. How about quote my full text. I'm not talking about TV service or anything specific here, but maybe if more people in this country focused on quality not price, we'd all be better off. I pay more for better quality and service, and I have no problem with it, yes I'm an idiot. 

I also pay more for cable broadband then DSL would cost me. Damn Time Warner for offering 15Mb broadband. I'm such an idiot for not getting Verizon's 768K for $20.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> maybe if more people in this country focused on quality not price, we'd all be better off


:lol:


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

So can you type words, or just emoticons?


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> So can you type words, or just emoticons?


If you want to spend 9000+ posts _in a satellite dish forum_ talking about how great cable is, that's your business. I'm sure TW pays you well for your time.

If your inane ramblings make me laugh, that's my business.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I wish I worked for Time Warner I really do. I'd be honored to work for a multibillion dollar company, third largest company in the country. And I have submitted resumes and applications to them, but nothing ever came of it.

How's this for inane, I had Dish Network from 1998 to 2004 then DirecTV for another 2 years after that, then switched back to cable last year when I did some research and found out how much they improved over the past 8 years. And it's not funny, it's sad really that price not overall quality is #1. I'm sure you're one of those people that want a $200 computer but want English speaking customer service reps to talk to when you call for support.


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## convem24 (Mar 11, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> I wish I worked for Time Warner I really do. I'd be honored to work for a multibillion dollar company, third largest company in the country. And I have submitted resumes and applications to them, but nothing ever came of it.
> 
> How's this for inane, I had Dish Network from 1998 to 2004 then DirecTV for another 2 years after that, then switched back to cable last year when I did some research and found out how much they improved over the past 8 years. And it's not funny, it's sad really that price not overall quality is #1. I'm sure you're one of those people that want a $200 computer but want English speaking customer service reps to talk to when you call for support.


I deal with retail environments a lot and customers are more concerned with price than quality. With respect to D* (I cannot speak for E* or the cable industry) their customers service has been all english speakers and it has been great for the most part (no customer servicse is 100% perfect). I know that cable companies do a good job and E* does a good job also. But in general to get something cheaply customers go with cheap. I pay a fair amount for D* service and I have never been disappointed. Some of friends who are on Comcast has been disappointed with customer service. It seems like that they just issue credit and fix the problem if they can. That is why I am on satellite service. Plus I want more HD. The web article mentioned in this thread about new technology to let SDV like channels be compatible with many CE devices. Again like many companies I will believe when I see it. Again to each his own. Plus the NFL is my drug! I need NFLST.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

ScoBuck said:


> It must act as some kind of self-therarpy.
> 
> Do these posters think anyone cares that they change service?
> 
> ...


When they provide some detail of their experiences on the other side, (which ever they came from and went to), yes, I care. I like to keep up with how each of the providers is doing.

I don't really care about people venting about people leaving, but I figure venting out is better than keeping it in.

Cheers,
Tom


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## autumnghost (Feb 10, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> I wish I worked for Time Warner I really do. I'd be honored to work for a multibillion dollar company, third largest company in the country.


:lol: Personally, I can't stand cable companies. Locally-manipulated, government-controlled monopolies that are tapped and surveillanced (yes, it is true; do some research), well no thanks! Specifically why I dropped HBO and Max recently because they are Time Warner and that is cable and I will not support it. Orwell was right. By the way, satellite does not have "miles of cable shared" and therefore cannot be "tapped" in any way by anyone along the delivery path. This is the reason I keep satellite as this is what a television service should be.


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## morbid_fun (Jan 16, 2007)

wismile said:


> I'm curious...how long have you owned an R15?


Since November 2005


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

autumnghost said:


> :lol: Personally, I can't stand cable companies. Locally-manipulated, government-controlled monopolies that are tapped and surveillanced (yes, it is true; do some research), well no thanks! Specifically why I dropped HBO and Max recently because they are Time Warner and that is cable and I will not support it. Orwell was right. By the way, satellite does not have "miles of cable shared" and therefore cannot be "tapped" in any way by anyone along the delivery path. This is the reason I keep satellite as this is what a television service should be.


Wow, just wow. I just can't have logical conversations when Orwell is brought up. I have better things to occupy my mind with then conspiracies and worrying who's out to get me. Cable surveillance, yeah whatever, don't care. My cell phone has GPS activated, I use an EZPass and I purchase everything on my Visa. Every move I make can be traced, having TW know that I like to watch CSI and Family Guy means nothing to me.

I hope you also don't purchase any movies on DVD from Warner Bros Studios, Castle Rock Entertainment, or New Line Cinema. If you have Starz, cancel that as well. Oddly enough movies from New Line are on Starz as per contract, even though it's a TW company. But you might as well cancel your satellite service all together. TBS, TNT, TCM, CNN, CNN Headline News, Cartoon Network, Boomberang, Court TV, a good portion for your DirecTV payment goes to Time Warner, and Comcast and Cablevision for that matter. So yes, you are still supporting whatever crap you think is happening, that probably isn't. Don't want to indirectly support the evil Time Warner Inc. Also hope you've never subscribed to Time Magazine, Sports Illustrated, People, Entertainment Weekly or a host of others.

BTW - I just went up to my cable box and yelled into it 'I'm stealing cable TV and getting free porno and uncapped my cable modem to 100Mb/s' and the cable goons have yet to come knocking on my door.


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## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

uncrules said:


> Enjoy your Tivo box when SDV hits your market.


news just out Friday that CableLabs agreed to open up their license for companies like Tivo (TivoToGo and MRV) , and the NCTA also released news of working on a device that would enable Tivo and others to handle SDV.

http://cablelabs.com/news/pr/2007/07_pr_dtla_082307.html

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6471768.html


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> It must act as some kind of self-therarpy.
> 
> Do these posters think anyone cares that they change service?
> 
> ...


These threads are useful for others who are considering switching services. The "old service sucks, new service is great" posts don't help much. But the posts that give the pros and cons of different services are pretty informative.

If you have no interest in hearing about it, why would you open a thread titled "Goodbye DirecTV - epilogue"? :nono2:


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

Steve Mehs said:


> Nice of you to selective quote. How about quote my full text. I'm not talking about TV service or anything specific here, but maybe if more people in this country focused on quality not price, we'd all be better off. I pay more for better quality and service, and I have no problem with it, yes I'm an idiot.
> 
> I also pay more for cable broadband then DSL would cost me. Damn Time Warner for offering 15Mb broadband. I'm such an idiot for not getting Verizon's 768K for $20.


Hi Steve,

We agree completely about paying for quality. I have Road Runner versus DSL too (and we're from the same area). However, we disagree that TWC cable is better in just about any way when compared to D* -- and I (like you) have had both. I realize that everyone's experience is different and that drives our individual opinions, but I don't see the comparison of service, equipment and end products between the two providers anything like the way you do -- and again, we're from the same area. So, although we agree that paying a bit more more for better products and service is a good thing, at least in this case we disagree on what's better.

Lee


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## uncrules (Dec 20, 2005)

Steve Mehs said:


> Please explain. I have Time Warner out of Rochester, and it beats DirecTV in every way, shape and form. Picture quality is better (I've done A/B comparisons), more movie channels, customer services, reliability is flat out EXCELLENT, prices are about the same if you are a higher end subscriber, not that pricing matters, I don't mind paying more for cable because they are the superior provider for me and I don't mind paying more for quality. My HD DVRs have been just as reliable as my old DirecTiVos, never once did I have any problem that DirecTVs new inhouse DVRs have. My 8300HDs have been as solid as a rock, and if something happens it's a 30 ride to the Batavia office for an exchange. And it looks like most of the Rochester area agrees with me, according to a figure I read from the D&C online TW holds 68% of the marketshare in the area for TV, they are the #1 broadband provider and by next year, TW will be Rochester's largest phone provider with more subscribers then Frontier in the region. TW does it right in Rochester, and this is also the test market for new features and services.
> 
> Horrible programming, let's see going from DirecTV to TW I lose WGN, TV G, Gol TV, NFL Network, TV One, PBS Kids Sprout (have it on demand though), Nick West, HBO Family West and countless religious and shopping channels I don't care about. But gain about 15 movie channels, tons of content On Demand, and HD channels DirecTV is supposed to have at some point that I've been enjoying for quite sometime now.


I'm glad you live in a market that has a great TWC franchise. Not everybody does. TWC in Greensboro has the same number of HD channels as D* and they have some very crappy looking analog channels.


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## wismile (Jul 20, 2006)

morbid_fun said:


> Since November 2005


that must be one messed up R10 unit. I would venture to say not too many people can claim their R15 has been a better DVR than their TIVO over the last couple years. Right now and going into the future perhaps.


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## morbid_fun (Jan 16, 2007)

wismile said:


> that must be one messed up R10 unit. I would venture to say not too many people can claim their R15 has been a better DVR than their TIVO over the last couple years. Right now and going into the future perhaps.


I had no issues with the R10. My overall viewing experience is better with the R15 though.


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## jordanzimmerman (Jan 20, 2006)

FYI - OP here: this was not meant to be a flame thread. I thought others would be interested in "one guy's experience". I'm not intending to throw tar at DirecTV. I'm unhappy with how they've handled the Tivo affair. That's all.


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## Fl_Gulfer (Apr 28, 2005)

I don't see how they treated TIVO so bad. they extended there contract with them and they will be offering a Tivo software upgrade soon for the HR10-250 users. They just wanted to make the monthly money instead of paying Tivo. It was just business. I have the first Tivo that came out from 99 and it still works great. And still have 2 Series 2 tivos connected to my SDTV's (with lifetime). Tivo was getting slow on there upgrades for D* and they were in financial trouble when D* started considering building there own DVR. I also wouldn't count out there relationship with TIVO.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> I'm glad you live in a market that has a great TWC franchise. Not everybody does. TWC in Greensboro has the same number of HD channels as D* and they have some very crappy looking analog channels.


I get 20 HD channels from TW, more than DirecTV has currently, but not as much as they're supposed to have. But included in that is my local CBS station, which DirecTV doesn't offer due to disputes with LIN and Mojo which carries NHL games from Versus HD when Versus HD is off air. I also get Rochester locals in HD via unencrypted QAM and 12-14 HD games a week with MLB Extra Innings.

Analog channels are irrelevant here. TW Rochester does digital simulcast, other than community access channels, ShopNBC and CSPAN the entire system is digital for those with a box.



> Hi Steve,
> 
> We agree completely about paying for quality. I have Road Runner versus DSL too (and we're from the same area). However, we disagree that TWC cable is better in just about any way when compared to D* -- and I (like you) have had both. I realize that everyone's experience is different and that drives our individual opinions, but I don't see the comparison of service, equipment and end products between the two providers anything like the way you do -- and again, we're from the same area. So, although we agree that paying a bit more more for better products and service is a good thing, at least in this case we disagree on what's better.
> 
> Lee


On my previous 32" regular SD tube TV, I couldn't tell the difference between DirecTV and TW. Both looked great and had great color saturation. My one qualm with Dish Network picture quality was the washed out look. Do an A/B on my 42" Sony HDTV and there was quite a difference. The pixilation on DirecTV was unreal, HBO, one of the best looking SD channels on DirecTV looks much better here on TW. Not sure what DirecTV sends the movie channels out as, but TW Rochester has all premium channels at 528 x 480. ESPN and Comedy Central were noticeably worse on Time Warner then DirecTV, FX and HGTV were noticeably better on Time Warner. So it also depends on channel,

As for hardware, yeah the 8300HD isn't exactly the most polished DVR on the planet, but it works and works well for me at least. Never missed a recording. That's all I ask for. A better search function would be nice, and having the EPG fill a 16x9 display would be cool, but I don't care about Wishlists, 30 sec skip, if it's there it's there, if it's not it's not, no big deal for me.

Customer service has been nothing but top notch, as I believe you read my story on the RochesterHDTV boards from a month or so ago. I never had many issues with DirecTV or Dish Network, but I have even less with Time Warner. TW has been 99.99% reliable for me.

There is only one thing I do not like about Time Warner Rochester. The lack of digital phone availability. Sure I understand them concentrating on the Rochester metro area moreso then my little town some 60 miles away but I want to give more money to this company, but they can't tell me if and when my town will get digital phone.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

Lucky and few are those who have a good cable company in their neighborhoods, but if you have it, and it is a good value to you, then more power to you.


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

*Caveat:* In all of the below, please note that we're both talking about the same TWC (Rochester, NY area). However, experiences can certainly be different, so it's not surprising that we have formed different opinions. Also, Steve is talking about right now and my experiences are from 3-5 years ago.



Steve Mehs said:


> On my previous 32" regular SD tube TV, I couldn't tell the difference between DirecTV and TW. Both looked great and had great color saturation. My one qualm with Dish Network picture quality was the washed out look. Do an A/B on my 42" Sony HDTV and there was quite a difference. The pixilation on DirecTV was unreal, HBO, one of the best looking SD channels on DirecTV looks much better here on TW. Not sure what DirecTV sends the movie channels out as, but TW Rochester has all premium channels at 528 x 480. ESPN and Comedy Central were noticeably worse on Time Warner then DirecTV, FX and HGTV were noticeably better on Time Warner. So it also depends on channel,


When I switched from TWC in our area 3-5 years ago (I still can't remember exactly) to D*, the difference in picture quality (I had SD only then) was stunning -- even though I had the 'digital tier' on TWC. All of D*'s channels were digital so that was great. The sound was better too. To top it off, the price was $120/year cheaper for me -- and that's w/o any special deals. I'm sure the prices for btoh have changed a lot since then so I'm not sure of the current comparison.



Steve Mehs said:


> As for hardware, yeah the 8300HD isn't exactly the most polished DVR on the planet, but it works and works well for me at least. Never missed a recording. That's all I ask for. A better search function would be nice, and having the EPG fill a 16x9 display would be cool, but I don't care about Wishlists, 30 sec skip, if it's there it's there, if it's not it's not, no big deal for me.


The TWC DVR I had at the time (can't remember what model it was) was simply awful. I went through 5 or 6 of them before giving up and getting two SA Tivo Series 2's. The TWC units were totally unreliable and I just gave up on them. TWC was neither helpful nor sympathetic in any way The current 8300HD units are reliable (my son has one in Cleveland) but not at all sophisticated or friendly in many ways that I'd expect. IMHO, they are barely better than a VCR. If that's enough for you, I guess that's fine. For as much heat as the HR20 DVR from D* has deservedly taken in it's early release months, it has now stabilized and is head and shoulders above the 8300HD. After owning 2 SD Series 2 Tivos for a number of years, I'd say that in many (not all) ways, the HR20's are as good or better than the Tivos (putting my flame suite on....)



Steve Mehs said:


> Customer service has been nothing but top notch, as I believe you read my story on the RochesterHDTV boards from a month or so ago. I never had many issues with DirecTV or Dish Network, but I have even less with Time Warner. TW has been 99.99% reliable for me.


This is where our experience differs the most. After reading your story on the RochesterHDTV board, I said the same thing..... The techs seemed to be largely quite good. They really tried to do a good job whenever they came out to the house. Problem is, they had to come out way too often. Reliability at TWC was terrible. Reliability is magnitudes better with D* than it was with TWC. In 3+ years with D*, I have had *maybe* two hours of total downtime. I used to have that and more on a monthly basis with TWC! Plus, talking to the office was a exercise in futility and frustration. Their attitude was blatantly nasty and condescending. They acted like they were the only game in town.

Anyway, that's been my experience -- and that's why I left for D*. If all of that has changed (other than the DVR) since I left them, that's a miraculous turn-around.


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## jordanzimmerman (Jan 20, 2006)

FYI - I made the call to DirecTV to cancel today. The CSR told me that D* and Tivo will be coming out with a new box in the future. Take with a grain of salt, of course, but who knows...


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

jordanzimmerman said:


> FYI - I made the call to DirecTV to cancel today. The CSR told me that *D* and Tivo will be coming out with a new box *in the future. Take with a grain of salt, of course, but who knows...


Nope. And no one cares. Tivo is dead :beatdeadhorse:

The DirecTV DVR's are better.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

Even if D* does come out with a new Tivo, I wouldn't rush to get one. I have an SD Tivo, and while I like it a lot, it's not any better then my D* DVR. The HR20 is working very well, and does stuff that the TiVo can't do. Plus more and more features are being added all the time. And 70 HD channels by September's end, and the 100 channels by year's end. SWEET! Cable in my area can't compete.


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## Blitz68 (Apr 19, 2006)

man_rob said:


> Even if D* does come out with a new Tivo, I wouldn't rush to get one. I have an SD Tivo, and while I like it a lot, it's not any better then my D* DVR. The HR20 is working very well, and does stuff that the TiVo can't do. Plus more and more features are being added all the time. And 70 HD channels by September's end, and the 100 channels by year's end. SWEET! *Cable in my area can't compete*.


Yup. got love the bandwidth limitations cable has.

Why would I want to go with satellite when the sky is the limit literally.

LOL Cable sucks.


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## stogie5150 (Feb 21, 2006)

Blitz68 said:


> Nope. And no one cares. Tivo is dead :beatdeadhorse:
> 
> The DirecTV DVR's are better.


Oh yes some one DOES care. I do. I'd put a bullet in my HR20 in a SECOND to have an MPEG4 HR10-250 TIVO. No media sharing, no VOD, just a great DVR. No extra stuff to slow it down. Just make me a good box to watch TV on. I'll download my movies elsewhere if I want them, and I already stream my music to my HT setup without the HR20 being involved. All it took is a 10 buck audio cable and an adaptor.


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## lman (Dec 21, 2006)

stogie5150 said:


> Oh yes some one DOES care. I do. I'd put a bullet in my HR20 in a SECOND to have an MPEG4 HR10-250 TIVO. No media sharing, no VOD, just a great DVR. No extra stuff to slow it down. Just make me a good box to watch TV on. I'll download my movies elsewhere if I want them, and I already stream my music to my HT setup without the HR20 being involved. All it took is a 10 buck audio cable and an adaptor.


+1 All I want is DLB.


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## autumnghost (Feb 10, 2007)

Steve Mehs said:


> Wow, just wow. I just can't have logical conversations when Orwell is brought up. If you have Starz, cancel that as well. Oddly enough movies from New Line are on Starz as per contract, even though it's a TW company. But you might as well cancel your satellite service all together.


Thanks, Steve as I have cancelled D* altogether as you have informed me that I was supporting cable way too much by subbing to sat. Sorry to bring up an old post, but I've been away for a while. There are far more interesting things to do than let television waste my time on. Watching crime/dramas, being bored to death by "reality" shows or waiting to hear about some new fabricated "terror alert" is not a healthy way to spend my life. It is just TV, people. You are glorifying it way too much. Go on an adventure and explore this great life of yours. Please don't let stupid media companies, advertisers or news anchors influence your view of this great planet we all share. In fact, I already see a change in my own attitude from wildly hedonistic to more open and happy since getting rid of TV. Enjoy!


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

No thanks. I'll keep on supporting the 'corporate machine' by keeping my two Sony HDTVs, paying Time Warner Cable for digital TV and broadband services, using deodorant and filling up my SUV with Exxon-Mobil fuel. I support establishment, not black helicopter anti government conspiracy theories, kounter kulture and hippieism.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

jordanzimmerman said:


> * Called Comcast. They scheduled an install for the very next day.


Probably because they don't have anyone calling them for service as everyone's switched.


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## Jon D (Oct 12, 2006)

stogie5150 said:


> Oh yes some one DOES care. I do. I'd put a bullet in my HR20 in a SECOND to have an MPEG4 HR10-250 TIVO. No media sharing, no VOD, just a great DVR. No extra stuff to slow it down. Just make me a good box to watch TV on. I'll download my movies elsewhere if I want them, and I already stream my music to my HT setup without the HR20 being involved. All it took is a 10 buck audio cable and an adaptor.


The HR10 didn't need extra stuff to slow it down. It was slow as molasses already! :lol:


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I don't see how they treated TIVO so bad. they extended there contract with them and they will be offering a Tivo software upgrade soon for the HR10-250 users. They just wanted to make the monthly money instead of paying Tivo. It was just business. I have the first Tivo that came out from 99 and it still works great. And still have 2 Series 2 tivos connected to my SDTV's (with lifetime). Tivo was getting slow on there upgrades for D* and they were in financial trouble when D* started considering building there own DVR. I also wouldn't count out there relationship with TIVO.


Well, a big part of it, I'm sure, is creative control. D* wanted to do this and that and the other thing with DVR, and didn't want to have to put everything through a long session of committee ping-pong with another corporation (TiVO) in order to get something approved.


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## soccercoach61 (Sep 24, 2006)

autumnghost said:


> :lol: Personally, I can't stand cable companies. Locally-manipulated, government-controlled monopolies that are tapped and surveillanced (yes, it is true; do some research), well no thanks! Specifically why I dropped HBO and Max recently because they are Time Warner and that is cable and I will not support it. Orwell was right. By the way, satellite does not have "miles of cable shared" and therefore cannot be "tapped" in any way by anyone along the delivery path. This is the reason I keep satellite as this is what a television service should be.


Dang, are you a Rollye James listener? did you have a telephone cord plugged into your STB?


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

raoul5788 said:


> Well, like a cranky old lady I knew used to say, "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!" :lol:


:soapbox: Sorry, but I've got to ask, why you quote the entire OP for a one line comment...

/soapbox

Just a cranky comment from someone who is tired of hitting page down.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

I agree that TiVo is still better, but with all of the DirecTV advantages, there really is no realisitic choice in the matter. We are DirecTV, you will be assimilated. Resistance is futile...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

How can a thread like this possible get almost 4000 hits???   

If this was a horse, I know what they'd do... :beatdeadhorse: :lol:


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## obrienaj (Apr 8, 2004)

braven said:


> Mmmm buh bye.
> 
> That's one of the great things about this country. We have so many TV choices.
> 
> Cheers! :goodjob:


Many other countries have MORE choice.


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## code4code5 (Aug 29, 2006)

[rant]You know, I've had this feeling for a long time and I've been reluctant to post it because I know it will just be taken as flaming. I have a Hughes HDVR2, which was my first DVR. Yeah, it works well, but IT ISN'T THAT GREAT! I've spent a great deal more time in front of my HR20-100 and like that interface even better than Tivo's. 
I've never missed a recording with my HR20.

I don't have to delete 30 suggestions every day.

I get to watch and listen to TV when going through my play list.

I can actually see what's on while looking at the guide.

I can select the channel and change the PIG to that program.

I don't have to Zipper my HR20 to get music and photos.

I get the privilege of being a CE member for the HR20

I'm going to get 100 channels of MPEG4 HD.

I'm sorry folks, but if you love Tivo that much, go buy a Tivo. Enjoy your "digital" cable.[/rant]


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## nc88keyz (Aug 12, 2007)

I love tivo very much as well and that is why I hesitated until this morning to go to MP4. It is inevitable to enjoy the content that will be launched very shortly. 

I will retain two HR10-250s for the TivoLite experience and have attached three HR20s to my arsenal to be installed on the 22nd.

Somebody up there must love me because directv really wanted me to go to MP4 with them this morning. . 

Im looking forward to the increased speed, learning curve and expanded content. 

When I asked the rep to read me the contract content he said why? You alread said you arent leaving us. We both laughed it off, but there are some really good ones there helping us out from time to time. 

I cant say I will miss tivo cause I will still have last years girfriends sitting along side my updated HR20 Twin Hotties!!!


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

jordanzimmerman said:


> Yes, DirecTV, it's been great, but you blew it.


Jordan,

The point of a receiver is what it receives.

It is strange to watch someone pack up and go home the night before the big game.

- Craig


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Jordan,
> 
> The point of a receiver is what it receives.
> 
> ...


No kidding!  

Hey MILO - I guess you and I should merge our 20+ years of D*TV experience and write our "Why D*TV is the best thing since sliced bread" 200-page novel.... :lol:

Apparently, there's a market for lengthy dissertations about life's tales with TV viewing. :lol:


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