# DBS Service Desk HTML Concerns



## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

One suggestion Ogre (it you're interested) - change the horrible colour scheme! Also (regardless of if you change the colour scheme)- consider getting rid of some or all of the table borders.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

BIG BIG BUG in your site code Ogre, check out that scrolling news in Mozilla... Because your tables aren't programmed right, it runs off the edge in Mozilla. A bug in IE forces it to render in an acceptable manner.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

:lol:.....Zac your just to much. :nono:

Nice job Ogre!!


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Just a clue for you, Zac. Such well-intended technical 'criticisms' are better handled privately by PM or email.

Like _this_ one! :eek2:


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

I can't read the scrolling marquee (it goes off the edge of the screen)! Ogre, in case you're reading this - all you need to do to make it work for everyone is change width=375 in your marquee tag to width=100%. What width=375 is doing is telling the browser to make it 375 pixels wide even if there isn't that much space. The only reason it works in IE is because this is yet another cool trick IE doesn't support Changing it to width=100% tells the browser to use all available space (what IE is doing even though your current code is telling it not to...)


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

You da man Zac!


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I love how those with certain browsers say that there is a problem with the web site and that it's dispalyed okay on another particular browser because of a BUG! LOL! It makes sense that if a browser displays the page as it should, there ain't no bug and it's the OTHER browser that has a problem handling the info! The problem is with the program that DOESN"T display properly. I had that "prolbem" with my web pages. Even though the all start with and end with some browsers REFUSE to see it as an HTML page unless the file name ends in .htm(l) And what make it even funnier is that most users of certain browsers say that other browsers are buggy because they show the page in HTML! Imagine that.

See ya
Tony


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

"It makes sense that if a browser displays the page as it should, there ain't no bug and it's the OTHER browser that has a problem handling the "

Not at all, IE wasn't displaying the page properly. Ogre has since fixed it, but he had set the marquee to a fixed width of 375px. It listened. Like it SHOULD HAVE. IE decided to scale it down since it wouldn't fit in the available space. Mozilla is the browser that rendered it correctly, IE failed to do so, overriding the code. Because he only tested it in IE (I assume), Ogre failed to see that his value of 375px was too wide. INTERNET EXPLORER DID NOT DISPLAY IT ACCORDING TO THE HTML CODE, Mozilla rendered it properly.

As for your other point, it does not matter what the page in is for any browser I know of as long as the server sends the file type as text/html. I believe your server was sending a file type of text/plain. It would have been inappropriate in this case for the browser to render it as HTML because you told the browser clearly that you did NOT want the HTML rendered. This serves a purpose (for example, so people can just click a link to see sample code)

IE renders at a higher level doing what it thinks you mean instead of what you say. When you actually mean what you say this can get very frustrating...

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PS, don't get me wrong - Mozilla has it's fair share of rendering bugs. This wasn't one of them. Neither was your plain text HTML. Those were bugs in IE. One especially annoying Mozilla rendering bug is the CSS scrollbar color. It just doesn't work in Mozilla


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

_"When you actually mean what you say this can get very frustrating..."_

Zac: We know you mean what you say. You just don't always stop and think whether what you say is contributory or not.

You are way off-topic here. You have managed to turn a welcome and congratulatory thread into a stupid, trivial and inappropriate argument.

You are up to your old marky-mark tricks for which you were previously sent on vacation.

This is a DBS site, not an HTML site. Lose (not loose) the verbal effluence and back off.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

NICK, you didn't even read my post properly! I the "when you mean what you say" wasn't even refering to that. It was refering to how Mozilla treats HTML compared to IE. Mozilla does what you say when rendering a page. IE does what it thinks you mean.

I son't get why YOU'RE telling ME to back off. I do welcome and congratulate Ogre. Me and him get along very well, and he had me helping him with some elements of this transition by email before it happened. I just though I'd give him some further friendly suggestions and everyone thinks it's some kind of attack?!


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Zac it could have been done in PM's or emails. No need to blast him in his big welcome message.

I see what your saying in your messages but you went about saying it the wrong way.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

I'd have to support Zac on this - there's more than one site on the Web that works on IE, but is broke using Netscape (or other browsers). And then the site's owner says "he never tests using anything other than IE, because 80%+ of his viewers use that". 

I'm not saying DBStalk and the other sites here show this - only that this problem does exist.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

Scott (and Chris who moved this thread according to the PM sent to me), I apologize if it was taken the wrong way by you guys. I don't think it was by Ogre, however, as he continues to be friendly in emails to me.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

It was me who split the threads (The software sends a PM automaticly letting people know where the thread is moved to and its always addressed from Chris) 

Zac, I understand what you are saying again but again you could have PMed him the problems or posted a seperate thread. Its the DBS Services Desk's Day in the sunshine, which is why I split the HTML talk away from the welcome message. The welcome thread is only to welcome him not to tell him how to program. This thread is the how to program thread.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

Okay Scott, sorry. No harm was intended to any parties involved.

As for Tony, I thought of a good way to make you understand why it is a bug in IE:

It is not the job of the slave to determine the meaning behind the orders of it's master. In the same way it is not the job of a web browser to determine to intent behind a specific HTML code, simply to render it.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I understand your position. However many a slave was beaten by the master while he was screaming "Do what I mean, not what I say". It really is what MOST people want.

When a page begins with and ends in any browser that DOES NOT display it as an HTML page is broken. The author CLEARLY intends the page to be displayed as HTML no matter WHAT anything else says. Now if after the page is displayed the reader says, "No, I really want to see it in plain text." he is just two clicks away (View>source).

If a table of several columns and rows is created and and the author left out one entry (especially on the trailing end), if the browser does not display it as a complete table with a space missing, the browser is broken. The author CLEARLY intended for there to be a table and not half a table followed by gibberish.

If a web page contains scrolling and crawling information on the page and the browser does not display that information in a page, the browser is broken. Again, the Author CLEARLY intended everything fit on the reader's screen.

I know that you and I will never see eye-to-eye on this, but that is my feeling on the subject.


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