# Another one bites the dust, Good riddence Dish, hello DirecTV



## johntoto11

It seemed so simple,My brother in law, who has been A very loyal dish customer for 3 years, wanted to get off his 'Dish home plan', with 1 301 receiver, and purchase 2 508's for a reasonable price,(he had a budget of $350.00) before Sept. 1st., stay with Dish, and be happy. When contacting Dish about this dilemma, they said they could not sell him the 508's at that price, but they knew of some local retailers in his area, who could, and probably leave him with money to spare.In the last 2 weeks he has waited on responses from , Radio shack, Sears , and 3 local installers.The best any of these retailers could do, after waiting A week and a half to hear this was $650.00 for both 508's.Dish you wasted too much of this customers time,drove him to his wits end, and pushed my poor brother in law, who is one of the nicest guys i know, into the welcome arms of Directv.In A few days he will be the proud owner of 2 new Philip's Directv Dual tuner DVR's, for less than he had budgeted for the 2 508's. To bad Dish isn't paying attention, to ALL the customers they are losing to Directv these days.What are they saying ...PVR customers have an ultra low percentage of turnovers.Dish you not only LOST A $75.00 a month customer, you stupidly GAVE DIRECTV A new $75.00 A month Customer.UNBELIEVABLE!!


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## Jacob S

Its weird how they will give some customers deals when others they do not. They had been giving some customers particularly those with larger packages two 501/508's for $149 or $199 each.


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## AppliedAggression

johntoto11 said:


> It seemed so simple,My brother in law, who has been A very loyal dish customer for 3 years, wanted to get off his 'Dish home plan', with 1 301 receiver, and purchase 2 508's for a reasonable price,(he had a budget of $350.00) before Sept. 1st., stay with Dish, and be happy. When contacting Dish about this dilemma, they said they could not sell him the 508's at that price, but they knew of some local retailers in his area, who could, and probably leave him with money to spare.In the last 2 weeks he has waited on responses from , Radio shack, Sears , and 3 local installers.The best any of these retailers could do, after waiting A week and a half to hear this was $650.00 for both 508's.Dish you wasted too much of this customers time,drove him to his wits end, and pushed my poor brother in law, who is one of the nicest guys i know, into the welcome arms of Directv.In A few days he will be the proud owner of 2 new Philip's Directv Dual tuner DVR's, for less than he had budgeted for the 2 508's. To bad Dish isn't paying attention, to ALL the customers they are losing to Directv these days.What are they saying ...PVR customers have an ultra low percentage of turnovers.Dish you not only LOST A $75.00 a month customer, you stupidly GAVE DIRECTV A new $75.00 A month Customer.UNBELIEVABLE!!


$650 for 2 508's? Dish sells them for $300 and you can easily get them for less. I'm not sure how you did your dealing. You talk about Directv's deals but what about dish's FREE PVR deal? That doesn't count? I'd be willing to bet Dish is pulling in more customers than directv is right now. You always get a better deal by switching services, same is true if he was going from directv to Dish. Companies pay for attention to new customers than current ones. Sorry you can $350 for 2 508's a decent price? Sounds like a great damn price to be if he got it. Bet if he asked for one 508 instead of two and mentioned a directv promo things would be different. Sorry but I'm really tired of this crap. People are always switching services and not everyone is going to be pleased by one company. People have different needs and therefore need to find a company that fits them, be it Directv or Dish in this case.


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## Jacob S

A new deal just came out that gives you a free 510 receiver.


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## johntoto11

Jacob S said:


> Its weird how they will give some customers deals when others they do not. They had been giving some customers particularly those with larger packages two 501/508's for $149 or $199 each.


 Thats exactly the deal he would have liked to get.I guess Dish didn't think his business was worth that deal for 2 buggy 508's.Anyway, I guess it works out for the best A Directv receiver , powered by TiVo is truly A much better PVR, and I know ultimately he is much better off. I just have to believe that this situation will be happening more and more with Dish. I think dish is counting on it's customers being stupid and naive.What a shame.


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## Mark Holtz

Well, as of yesterday, the Dish system was removed at my place and the DirecTV system installed. And, I gave the customer retention person a few reasons why. She offerred me a free month of service to try the system out. I declined... the Dishes were already removed, and it is impossible to run more lines. (My mom gave me a strange look when they ran the second line to my room. I think the installer thought it was unusual that the PVR goes to my room, not the family room).


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## AppliedAggression

Z'Loth said:


> Well, as of yesterday, the Dish system was removed at my place and the DirecTV system installed. And, I gave the customer retention person a few reasons why. She offerred me a free month of service to try the system out. I declined... the Dishes were already removed, and it is impossible to run more lines. (My mom gave me a strange look when they ran the second line to my room. I think the installer thought it was unusual that the PVR goes to my room, not the family room).


whoopie, now keep it on topic. i could care less about your new directv system when i'm looking at the dish network pvr board.


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## johntoto11

Applied, I thought that's what we were talking about. Jeeze


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## platinum

AppliedAggression said:


> whoopie, now keep it on topic. i could care less about your new directv system when i'm looking at the dish network pvr board.


Dude...Take it down a notch.


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## Jacob S

Agression has been applied, just had to say that. (j/k)


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## AppliedAggression

Sorry but personally I'm tired of all the *****ing going around here. directv is an alternative? really? i had no idea. Truthfully i don't think one company is better than the other and there's always going to be ppl happy with each one. We don't need it annouced everytime someone switches boat. Don't try to justify your actions by posting irrelevant information.


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## dennispe

Sorry AA but here's another person who jumped and it IS relevant. I'd read about the Dish PVR upgrade with a LOT of people getting one for $149.00 but when I called Dish it was $199.00. When asked why, no of the CSR's knew why some people got a lower price than others so I said screw it.

As soon as the D* installer comes out, I'll have all new equipment with extended warranties and more HDTV content (the content Dish keeps talking about but never produces) NOW. Not next month but NOW. I'm asking myself why I didn't do this a few months ago.


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## Ron Barry

My guess is that you did not do this a few months ago because DirectTV did not have the content then and Dish was the leader.  I fully understand the frustration with Dish and it is good to have a choice. If you go onto software sites, Video card sites, video editing software sites, DVD authoring sites, etc. You will find the same time of posts: X sucks and I am jumping to Y. 

Not saying that E* is great, but even if they were some people would find something annoying and look over the fence and see what appears to be greener grass. Maybe it is and Maybe it is not, but one never knows until they hop the fence. 

However, it will be interesting to see in 6 months or a year if that jump was worth it. I am sure for some it will be but for others they will feel they made a mistake. The point here is that all of our needs are different and all of our experiences with E* are different to. I see nothing wrong with discussing why one made the switch, however slinging mud in E* direction only starts flame wars and does no good at discussing your issues with E*. 

For the people that are jumping to D* , my suggestion is that you take your personal requirements into account and be sure before you make the jump. The grass may not be greener for everyone and this is a dynamic business. 

My opinion for D* is wait until after Charlie's Talk on September. Hopefully the long wait will be over and the news will be good. Also, the added fee sucks and I hope they will change their mind. Like most other people on here, I feel that Dish's DVR does not have the feature set to demand a fee and if they are going to ask for a fee then the units should have a lot more value added features instead of being a VCR with a big Tape drive.


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## Jerry G

AppliedAggression said:


> Sorry but personally I'm tired of all the *****ing going around here. directv is an alternative? really? i had no idea. Truthfully i don't think one company is better than the other and there's always going to be ppl happy with each one. We don't need it annouced everytime someone switches boat. Don't try to justify your actions by posting irrelevant information.


Personally, I'm tired of reading posts complaining about people who are very justified to complaining about how Dish is handling this entire situation. Dish put themselves in this situation. In the four years I've been with Dish, I've never seen so much displeasure with Dish expressed so vehemently.

And it is very important for Dish to read of how many people are dumping Dish and moving to DirecTV. They need to understand the consequences of their delays and the constant new disappointing revelations were hearing about from Scott. The fact that an individual cannot buy a Superdish, but must wait God knows how long for a "qualified" installer to get to our home to install the Superdish is just another nail in "disgusted with Dish" coffin.


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## Peluso

WeeJavaDude said:


> I feel that Dish's DVR does not have the feature set to demand a fee and if they are going to ask for a fee then the units should have a lot more value added features instead of being a VCR with a big Tape drive.


You are an educated consumer when it comes to PVR technologies. My guess is that 99% of people who are getting this product are not as well educated. They think they are getting a deal when they see Dish at say $4.99 for the average subscriber and Tivo at $12.99 I believe Tivo is a per box charge as well. DirecTivo is a different story but they are not the competition, regular Tivo and cable TV is.


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## Bob Haller

D isnt a E competitor? Thats a funny conclusion.

Themn Primestar wasnt a competitor of E or D and rainbow is totally meaningless?

Give me a break........


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## Jacob S

With Murdoch in control it would be very much a competitive company against Dish Network.


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## dbronstein

Jerry G said:


> And it is very important for Dish to read of how many people are dumping Dish and moving to DirecTV.


Yeah, Dish doesn't know when someone cancelled their service until they read about it here.


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## Guest

Why does everyone ***** about "oh, I have this and it's superior!"? This is the same mentality that wastes our time (and ultimately, our lives) so I must say if you are not happy with either D* or E*, then damn well switch to whatever you find satisfaction with and don't turn this into a holy war of "I'm superior because I have what you don't!" We all find satisfaction with a particular choice, but I don't think we are doing any good by "dumping " all over a competitor unless they play by dirty, money-hungry rules.


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## Jerry G

dbronstein said:


> Yeah, Dish doesn't know when someone cancelled their service until they read about it here.


Oh please. I'd explain exactly what I meant, but I'm sure you wouldn't understand it.


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## Peluso

Jacob S said:


> With Murdoch in control it would be very much a competitive company against Dish Network.


Depends on what Murdoch sees as competition. If Murdoch sees Cable as primary competator, then Dish has nothing to worry about. My guess is that he wants DirecTV for more distribution control over his production assetts. That minimizes any chance that we'll see serious technical improvement from the DirecTV camp.


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## dbronstein

Jerry G said:


> Oh please. I'd explain exactly what I meant, but I'm sure you wouldn't understand it.


Ah yes, make a personal attack when you don't have a good reply.

I understood your point just fine, it just makes no sense. I'm just trying to figure out why you feel it's better for people to complain about Dish here rather than complaining directly to Dish. Who do you think they are more likely to listen to: customers who contact them and give them their opinions, or people who whine on a message board?

Dennis


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## Inaba

I think the "I'm jumping ship" posts are valuable... I wish I had found them prior to my purchase of this joke of a PVR called the 721... I would not have bought one, after seeing all the problems here.

If nothing else, those types of posts are useful to the person currently shopping around on what to buy. Lots of good info here, and differing viewpoints (Dish apologists aside) to help the average consumer into making an educated decision.


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## AppliedAggression

Inaba said:


> I think the "I'm jumping ship" posts are valuable... I wish I had found them prior to my purchase of this joke of a PVR called the 721... I would not have bought one, after seeing all the problems here.
> 
> If nothing else, those types of posts are useful to the person currently shopping around on what to buy. Lots of good info here, and differing viewpoints (Dish apologists aside) to help the average consumer into making an educated decision.


I'd have to disagree with you. Most of the ppl here are very much into the technical side of Dish. I'm sure most ppl here use their PVRs/DVRs more than the average consumer. I'm also sure that we probably do more to them than most ppl.

A lot of members problems with Dish on this board are HD related and I doubt most consumers actually have one to be able to take advantage of the content.


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## xgrep

AppliedAggression said:


> I'd have to disagree with you. Most of the ppl here are very much into the technical side of Dish.


So who do you think would be looking on an online forum for info about DBS? My grandmother?

When I came to this forum, I got, and still continue to get, exactly the kind of info, from people just like myself, that I need to make informed decisions. Sure, there's a lot of opinion from a small sample of E*'s customer base, but anyone who can't separate the opinion from the fact is going to have a hard time in life, anyway.

x


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## dbronstein

Inaba said:


> I think the "I'm jumping ship" posts are valuable... I wish I had found them prior to my purchase of this joke of a PVR called the 721... I would not have bought one, after seeing all the problems here.
> 
> If nothing else, those types of posts are useful to the person currently shopping around on what to buy. Lots of good info here, and differing viewpoints (Dish apologists aside) to help the average consumer into making an educated decision.


I agree, they are very useful to customers and potential customer. But Jerry G said it's important for _Dish_ to read the posts about people jumping ship, and that makes absolutely no sense. I'm pretty sure Dish doesn't need to come here to find out that someone cancelled their service.

Dennis


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## Peluso

I can almost gaurentee there is a report. When the numbers get high enough, someone will notice and things will change. squeaky wheel gets the grease in any organization. A huge churn number through out the system will be a squeaky wheel indeed.


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## Jerry G

dbronstein said:


> I agree, they are very useful to customers and potential customer. But Jerry G said it's important for _Dish_ to read the posts about people jumping ship, and that makes absolutely no sense. I'm pretty sure Dish doesn't need to come here to find out that someone cancelled their service.
> 
> Dennis


All right. I give in. I'll make an attempt to explain it to you.

If I call Dish to complain or drop service, I have no idea if the CSR will tell anyone. I have no idea how the change gets recorded and it anyone will ever know precisely why I complained or cancelled.

However, we do know that this forum is read by people who are in a position to respond. You may be correct that Dish doesn't need to know that someone cancelled. But if they read it here and read the reasons there is a chance it will have more effect that just being a meaningless statistic which is what Dish will have if the cancellation and complaints aren't posted here.

I can't believe that you don't see the difference.

I also noted that you posted in another thread that Dish doesn't have to do anything at the upcoming chat to keep you as a customer. I guess you don't have HD or care about it.


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## Kidder1974

Jerry G said:


> However, we do know that this forum is read by people who are in a position to respond. You may be correct that Dish doesn't need to know that someone cancelled. But if they read it here and read the reasons there is a chance it will have more effect that just being a meaningless statistic which is what Dish will have if the cancellation and complaints aren't posted here.
> 
> I can't believe that you don't see the difference.


Actually, take it even further than that.

If I, as a subscriber, call and cancel my service, I'm just one person. Big whoop, as far as they're concerned. However, I, as one person, posting publicly as to why I'm canceling my service is a bigger deal since others will probably read about it and take it into consideration if they're thinking of using E* in the future or are currently with E*, and thinking of leaving, as well.

Personally, I take word of mouth experience over marketing hype when making decisions. If I hear that a lot of people are having problems, I'll be more hesitant to switch or continue using the product they're talking about. And that's how a lot of people out there are, and why word of mouth is so important, be it positive or negative about a product or person.

-Kyle


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## dbronstein

Jerry G said:


> All right. I give in. I'll make an attempt to explain it to you.
> 
> If I call Dish to complain or drop service, I have no idea if the CSR will tell anyone. I have no idea how the change gets recorded and it anyone will ever know precisely why I complained or cancelled.
> 
> However, we do know that this forum is read by people who are in a position to respond. You may be correct that Dish doesn't need to know that someone cancelled. But if they read it here and read the reasons there is a chance it will have more effect that just being a meaningless statistic which is what Dish will have if the cancellation and complaints aren't posted here.
> 
> I can't believe that you don't see the difference.
> 
> I also noted that you posted in another thread that Dish doesn't have to do anything at the upcoming chat to keep you as a customer. I guess you don't have HD or care about it.


I agree, you don't know what the CSR told anyone, if anything. It just makes no sense to me to say "we need to tell Dish we're unhappy with their service, so let's post on a third-party message board." If you ran a business, who would you be more likely to listen to: A customer who contacted you directly about a problem, or a customer who posted their problem on a mesage board?

I can't believe you don't see that difference.

And you're right, I don't have HD yet. Even if I could afford a set, I can't get any programming. I can't get an OTA signal, Comcast doesn't carry any HD here yet, and it makes no sense to me to spend the money on HD satellite equipment for the 5 channels I could get form Dish or DirecTV.

Dennis


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## Jerry G

Kidder1974 said:


> Actually, take it even further than that.
> 
> If I, as a subscriber, call and cancel my service, I'm just one person. Big whoop, as far as they're concerned. However, I, as one person, posting publicly as to why I'm canceling my service is a bigger deal since others will probably read about it and take it into consideration if they're thinking of using E* in the future or are currently with E*, and thinking of leaving, as well.
> 
> Personally, I take word of mouth experience over marketing hype when making decisions. If I hear that a lot of people are having problems, I'll be more hesitant to switch or continue using the product they're talking about. And that's how a lot of people out there are, and why word of mouth is so important, be it positive or negative about a product or person.
> 
> -Kyle


Excellent points. I don't know why dbronstein has difficulty in understanding this and keeps on giving me such a hard time for supporting those who complain and post of their switch to DirecTV on a forum.


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## Kidder1974

Jerry G said:


> Excellent points. I don't know why dbronstein has difficulty in understanding this and keeps on giving me such a hard time for supporting those who complain and post of their switch to DirecTV on a forum.


Of course, I'm not saying that Dish shouldn't be told why you're leaving their "family". I'm simply saying that, in addition to telling them, tell others if you're unhappy with their service. And this isn't some podunk message board, either. We already have been told, several times, that E* employees read this stuff. I guess my point is that, if you're unhappy and want to let people know that you're unhappy (and WHY you're unhappy), use a medium that lots of people have the ability to see. I haven't checked, but this stuff may even show up in a google search. I know other messages on boards have shown up when I've searched on other topics....

At the same time, if you're happy with their service, you don't just tell E*, but you tell your friends, post your positive experience here, etc, etc. And that's been done in the past, too. It's all a part of the same thing. Happy or unhappy, shout it from the mountain top if you feel like doing so.

-Kyle


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## dbronstein

Jerry G said:


> Excellent points. I don't know why dbronstein has difficulty in understanding this and keeps on giving me such a hard time for supporting those who complain and post of their switch to DirecTV on a forum.


I'm not giving you a hard time for supporting those who complain. That's what this forum is for. But if you really think Dish is going to change anything because of what people post here, you're dreaming.

I can hear Charlie now:

"We've gained over a million subscribers in the last 10 months, but 12 people have posted on dbstalk that they went to DirecTV. Obviously we need to completely rethink our pricing structure."

Dennis


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## Jerry G

dbronstein said:


> I'm not giving you a hard time for supporting those who complain. That's what this forum is for. But if you really think Dish is going to change anything because of what people post here, you're dreaming.
> 
> I can hear Charlie now:
> 
> "We've gained over a million subscribers in the last 10 months, but 12 people have posted on dbstalk that they went to DirecTV. Obviously we need to completely rethink our pricing structure."
> 
> Dennis


Further discussion with you on this issue is absolutely pointless.


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## Jerry G

dbronstein said:


> I'm not giving you a hard time for supporting those who complain. That's what this forum is for. But if you really think Dish is going to change anything because of what people post here, you're dreaming.


Dear Mr dbronstein,

We don't know just what effect what has been posted here had on Dish's decision to put up some of the HD channels. We do know that Dish has previously stated that all new HD would go to 105. They were quite emphatic about that. But something changed their mind.

It's clear that you will never admit to the possibility that what has been posted here and letters and phone calls to Dish just might have had some affect in getting the new HD channels up on Sept 16. But I believe that there is a possibility that what has been said by frustrated customers might have just had some effect.

And with that, I am truly done discussing this issue with you, and I'll just continue with my kind of dreaming that may just have had some effect.


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## Bob Haller

Historically we do have a effect.

Delay for 6 months the return of the dishplayer original PVR fee for sub who bought the 3 year free deal.

Did you see scotts existing customer 510 upgrade post? looks like they are trying to make the fee a little better, but I will not do it. Besides those offers are a unfinished work. Hopefully they will come in some form

Now the HD gets mirrored on 61.5. Thats likely as much their inability to roll out superdish as to make high def fans happy. But still we made them aware of the issue,


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## dbronstein

Jerry G said:


> It's clear that you will never admit to the possibility that what has been posted here and letters and phone calls to Dish just might have had some affect in getting the new HD channels up on Sept 16. But I believe that there is a possibility that what has been said by frustrated customers might have just had some effect.


Jerry,

I have no doubt that letters and phone calls to Dish probably had some effect. That's been my point all along. IMO, any business - Dish or anyone else - is much more like to respond to comments/complaints submitted to them directly than they are to posts on a message board. It's clear that you will never admit to this possibility.

Dennis


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## dondude32

I just had direct installed today. I gave dish a chance to keep my business. Called them a week ago explained I'm tired of paying $9.95 a month for dish player even though I have Everything pack. Think they'd give me a deal on 508? No I could buy a 508 for $149.99. I just had three receiver system installed for $15.85. Just finished ordering my tivo for current subs from direct for $99.00. Yep two tuner tivo and three receivers installed for $115.85. Guess my three years of everything pack and credit card auto pay weren't worth it to them. Happily watchin direct and enjoying the superstations and fox sports regional for less than I was paying for dish. Almost forgot to mention I'm a big football fan and signed up for nfl sunday ticket and get four months free.


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## jerryyyyy

When you all get to Direct TV, can you check if they have TV-5 (606). THis is why I went with E*. If E* did not carry that channel, I would be gone.


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## xgrep

jerryyyyy said:


> When you all get to Direct TV, can you check if they have TV-5 (606). THis is why I went with E*. If E* did not carry that channel, I would be gone.


Me too, but I'm gone. Comcast has TV5 now.

I don't think int'l is going to figure in D*'s plan for quite a while, though. But even if they had TV5, I don't know that I would've left E* for D*. I've been pretty happy with E* (don't own a 721 , and was looking forward to HD. Too bad they couldn't (and probably won't ever) deliver my HD locals. D* can't either, of course. Different strokes, as they say.

x


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## Mike Richardson

xgrep said:


> Too bad they couldn't (and probably won't ever) deliver my HD locals. D* can't either, of course. Different strokes, as they say.


Can you get them OTA? If so then what's the problem? It doesn't matter where you get them from as long as they work.


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## Rick P

Mark Holtz said:


> Long live DVD and DVR! (Now, where's my DVD recorder?)


here you go Mark Panasonic DMR-E80H $500 shipped. Best bang for the buck period. And I have over 300 recorded discs to prove it.


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## Nick

Jumping to D*? Great. Who cares? 

Don't let the garage door hit you in the ass on your way out. :wave:


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## Bob Haller

Hey I want to hear of those who converted, the good bad and ugly. E isnt as responsive to subs needs as they used too. This has sure applied to us.


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## Unthinkable

Nick said:


> Jumping to D*? Great. Who cares?
> 
> Don't let the garage door hit you in the ass on your way out. :wave:


My thoughts exactly! :lol:

Do we honestly need a long winded eulogy every time someone converts?!


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## xgrep

Mike Richardson said:


> Can you get them OTA? If so then what's the problem? It doesn't matter where you get them from as long as they work.


I'm trying, but it's not quite there, yet. I can get a couple, but not the ones I want, while Comcast has 'em all, plus my TV5 int'l a la carte channel (plus a lower total package price).

x


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## Bob Haller

The reports of bugs and unhappy long term E supporters is a sign of a larger problem at E and should be of concern to management.


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## Ron Barry

Well I would agree Bob that E products have their share of bugs, however I am not sure if they bug rate is at a level that would drive a lot of concern at E*. Things in here tend to be overstated at times and tend to be hightend a bit. By the pure fact that we hang out here, we are much more aware of the products blemishes and tend to work the product a lot harder than most E* customers. We notice and get annoyed by the blemishes. Even though E* does look at this site form what I hear, we are but a small piece of the huge customer pie they have. 

Overall I am a happy E* customer, but I am pissed about the DVR fee and lack of advanced ustability features in the DVRs. That combination makes it even hard for people like us to accept a fee. I am sure that D* heavy sites have the same type of posts. Maybe things are bit better over on that side of the fence, I don't know and since I have an international requirment I dont peak over that fence but my experience in a lot of cases you change one set if issues with another. 

We can only hope that E* is listening and will respond to address our concerns but if our concerns dont match their perception of concerns of the masses, I would not hold my breath waiting for it to happen.


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## Guest

dbronstein said:


> Ah yes, make a personal attack when you don't have a good reply.
> 
> I understood your point just fine, it just makes no sense. I'm just trying to figure out why you feel it's better for people to complain about Dish here rather than complaining directly to Dish. Who do you think they are more likely to listen to: customers who contact them and give them their opinions, or people who whine on a message board?
> 
> Dennis


The reason people complain on message boards is because Dish network ignore the people whom write to them. I have written on numerous occasions in respect to the high price of pvr/dvr to existing customers versus the 'free' pvr/dvr to new customers and I have yet to receive any reply from them.
I am in the market for a pvr/dvr and asked them if in the future the price of the tuner recorder would be lowered for its LOYAL existing customers............I have to date been ignored.


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