# R15 10d1??



## UPEngineer (Aug 9, 2004)

Well I forced upgrade to 10C8 about a week ago...I have been gone last two days for work and when I got home my wife said she was watching tv (Can't remember when) and said the receiver said something about an upgrade.

I checked my unit and now it says 10D1, but the date is still all jacked up and not displaying anything at all.

Earl, I'm assuming this is a new version and if so, what does it do?


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## manhole (Jun 9, 2006)

I received this update today as well. It seems to have helped a little bit on the delay of updating the channel banner information when flipping through channels, but it is still hit & miss on that issue (50/50).


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## UPEngineer (Aug 9, 2004)

what delay are you talking about? Mine doesn't seem to have a delay. Of course after watching a little on the HR10-250 "Please wait" all the time, everything else is zippy 

And by the way, I live in Oklahoma and we are usually the last ones to get anything in terms of updates!


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Man, some of us haven't even gotten 10C8 yet and now you're getting something even newer?

Something is flawed in D*'s upgrade process for sure.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm looking into it...

I probably won't hear anything till Monday.


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## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

You should actually be glad your not getting these updates!
They are way too buggy. I hope 10D1 is less buggy than 10C8.



RunnerFL said:


> Man, some of us haven't even gotten 10C8 yet and now you're getting something even newer?
> 
> Something is flawed in D*'s upgrade process for sure.


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## manhole (Jun 9, 2006)

UPEngineer said:


> what delay are you talking about?


Ever since 10C8 there is a very bad delay on the channel banner when flipping through channels. I will flip through channels and the receiver does not update the banner with what is on the current channel for 1 - 2 seconds. So it may be on channel 203 but the banner still shows what is on 202. Very annoying when you are channel surfing.

The problem seems to be better with 10D1, but it is still hit & miss with the delay there about 50% of the time now.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

klwillis said:


> You should actually be glad your not getting these updates!
> They are way too buggy.


You got that right. I forced an update a few weeks back and all my SL's stopped working and my box went crazy. So bad that I had to stop using it and bring back my R-10.


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Man, some of us haven't even gotten 10C8 yet and now you're getting something even newer?
> 
> Something is flawed in D*'s upgrade process for sure.


Didn't this happen before....that one release was 'part way out' when it was replaced by something slightly newer?

Maybe their upgrade process IS working.....they started pushing 10c8, discovered problems and fixed them before it was fully deployed, hence a new version.

All I know, as the LAST person to EVER get the updates, is that I expect mine sometime before christmas. :lol:


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Ya I think that was the last version, the fixed something that people here where complaining about I think. Then the new version (the version most of us have now) came out and thats the one we all got.



wohlfie said:


> Didn't this happen before....that one release was 'part way out' when it was replaced by something slightly newer?
> 
> Maybe their upgrade process IS working.....they started pushing 10c8, discovered problems and fixed them before it was fully deployed, hence a new version.
> 
> All I know, as the LAST person to EVER get the updates, is that I expect mine sometime before christmas. :lol:


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

wohlfie said:


> Didn't this happen before....that one release was 'part way out' when it was replaced by something slightly newer?
> 
> Maybe their upgrade process IS working.....they started pushing 10c8, discovered problems and fixed them before it was fully deployed, hence a new version.
> 
> :


Does that sound like an effective "upgrade process"?

It took what 10-12 weeks since previous upgrade, in that time they couldn't figure out that the problems with the release, but somehow in a short few days they discovered, fixed and began sending out another update?

Again, why are they seeing things so quickly, yet not seeing them in testing?

If they do see them in testing and a fix is already in works, why the partial release?

If they are gonna take extended periods between fixes, then they shouln't need to interrupt distribution to fix the fix.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> Again, why are they seeing things so quickly, yet not seeing them in testing?


Because the testers, just a guess, are not really knowledgable DVR users or even close. Probably a bunch of casual mom and pop users with a small handful of SL's and watching 1-2 hours of TV a night tops. No where near close to the real testing many here who are finding the problems would put it through.

No wonder DirecTV higherups thinks the R-15 is fixed and working well. My R-15 has been next to flawless the past month too as I hardly use it. Dont use your R-15 much the next week and watch how well it works and how the lockups and problems decrease.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Because the testers, just a guess, are not really knowledgable DVR users or even close. Probably a bunch of casual mom and pop users with a small handful of SL's and watching 1-2 hours of TV a night tops. No where near close to the real testing many here who are finding the problems would put it through.
> 
> No wonder DirecTV higherups thinks the R-15 is fixed and working well. My R-15 has been next to flawless the past month too as I hardly use it. Dont use your R-15 much the next week and watch how well it works and how the lockups and problems decrease.


Well, then, what D* should do is seek beta [version] testing volunteers ("real" users who typically excercise the heck out of the software through their typical usage) who would receive beta version downloads before the full release. However, any beta testing volunteer should have the option to restore to the previous version if they feel overwhelmed by the bugs in the beta version.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Because the testers, just a guess, are not really knowledgable DVR users or even close. Probably a bunch of casual mom and pop users with a small handful of SL's and watching 1-2 hours of TV a night tops. No where near close to the real testing many here who are finding the problems would put it through.
> 
> No wonder DirecTV higherups thinks the R-15 is fixed and working well. My R-15 has been next to flawless the past month too as I hardly use it. Dont use your R-15 much the next week and watch how well it works and how the lockups and problems decrease.


Doesn't the technology department ahve a testing team? Don't they have test plans? If mom and pop identify a small minor bug (like download date not updating) fine. but Basic simple stuff? if they don't have a testing plan to identify those issues, I really doubt we will see a reliable HR20 any time soon.

I worked at a bank where testing the VRU was more in-depth and they didn't know anything about code or how to build it, but they did know how to build a test plan.

I am more amazed every day.....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> Doesn't the technology department ahve a testing team? Don't they have test plans? If mom and pop identify a small minor bug (like download date not updating) fine. but Basic simple stuff? if they don't have a testing plan to identify those issues, I really doubt we will see a reliable HR20 any time soon.
> 
> I worked at a bank where testing the VRU was more in-depth and they didn't know anything about code or how to build it, but they did know how to build a test plan.
> 
> I am more amazed every day.....


I know they have a testing team... not sure the depths of the testing plan.
And they are very busy with multiple software updates for several different units (HR10-250 being one of them)

Here are two problems (and we have had this "testing"/Q&A/methodology argument a few times)

1) Not every problem that people have posted on the forums, is reproduceable on another system. I usually try just about every "error" people have posted, and so far... I have been able to only reproduce 1 or 2 of them... on the two different systems I have.

That is not to say they don't exist, but what if the units in the test lab function like mine do, or everyone one else that posts.. "works fine on mine" ?

2) Some (notice I said "some" not all) of the stuff that we have come up with as bugs and things like that, are from heavy heavy users that push the boxes to the extreme.... A lot of the combinations I have tested, I would NEVER have come up with when writing a test plan.

The trick there is, get those things INTO the test plan, for testing on the next unit.

We are not at this point yet... but... at what point do we go from... it's a software bug... to, hmm something must be wrong with "your" system.
Kinda where we are with the TiVo product... where we usually think "hardware", Installation, heat, hard drive, ect... before we consider a flaw in the software.


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## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

Earl,

You should let me use your R15 I can crash it in 10 minutes or less. 
You are right about pushing the R15 to the max.
I have a todo list at 100 and 50 SL.
I would have more but the R15 only allows this many.

The R15 seems most vulnerable right after a reset when its reloading the data for the EPG which it looses every time a reset is done.

Keith



Earl Bonovich said:


> I know they have a testing team... not sure the depths of the testing plan.
> And they are very busy with multiple software updates for several different units (HR10-250 being one of them)
> 
> Here are two problems (and we have had this "testing"/Q&A/methodology argument a few times)
> ...


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I am not a tech type person so I might be completely mistaken, this should alert someone somewhere that there is a problem, maybe a large one, be it hardware or software.

This is not Windows XP used on 1000 different makes of computers with different CPU's, graphics cards, amount of memory running different programs by different makers.

The R-15's (except maybe any differences between the 300 and 500 which no one knows for sure) are all made the same with the same everything from what I understand and running the same software and doing the same things. 

Something seems wrong to me  when some have so many problems, others none, some a few, some a different few and others still a different few on the same unit.

I am not trying to be a Beta Tester but they need someone like me and a few others here with 50 SL's and who watch a lot of TV and fool with and tweak things a lot or the R-15 is never going to be relaible for all.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Something seems wrong to me  when some have so many problems, others none, some a few, some a different few and others still a different few on the same unit.


Don't sell yourself short, some with tech knowledge see the same things. I think though there are quite a few variables that still are there though based on how the user interacts with the program.

Personal opinion: they should not create/change the problems.

Here are some that others can add to:

1. Using "standby"
2. Using "autorecord"
3. Changing "priorities"
4. Using "find/search"
5. Using 1 vs. 2 inputs
6. Using "active channel"
7. Using ((R))
8. Deleting old "find/searches"

While we all do the above, many of us don't do them the same way others do. The reason my box seems stable to me is that once I got it set up and left it alone, it had very few problems (other than guide related). As soon as I start changing things around, (removing SP, moving priorities, etc) it will get flaky and usually I'll just "reset" it when going to bed or work and it settles back down. 
I think it's these variables that DTV needs to address, and it may be limitations of the processor or memory that are keeping them from fixing it quickly. If so, we may see another box coming in the future but I doubt we will ever see an admission of a problem.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

klwillis said:


> Earl,
> 
> You should let me use your R15 I can crash it in 10 minutes or less.
> You are right about pushing the R15 to the max.
> ...


Keith, how many tuners do you have running 1 or 2?


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## klwillis (Apr 11, 2006)

I have both tuners on all my DVRs running.

Keith



cabanaboy1977 said:


> Keith, how many tuners do you have running 1 or 2?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

klwillis said:


> I have both tuners on all my DVRs running.
> 
> Keith


That blows that idea. I'd been thinking that the only people who had there todo lists pegged at 99 where people with one tuner. I have 43 SL's and the todo list only ever seems to get to the 80's. I've only ever seen it go to the 90's once or twice. I thought they might have put logic in there to keep it from hitting 99.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I am at 97 todo list (at least as of last night), with dual tuners..


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Is that from SL's alone or are there auto records and single records in there? I don't do any auto's and only do about 1 or 2 single records a week. Does yours tend to stay in the 90's?


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## Jim B (Feb 4, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Is that from SL's alone or are there auto records and single records in there? I don't do any auto's and only do about 1 or 2 single records a week. Does yours tend to stay in the 90's?


I have a two year old hooked on Blue's Clues, Dora, Wiggles, and a few others. I have about five SLs for him, a few for me (This Old House, etc), and one for the Wife (Gen Hosp). If I go to set up a one time record (like an HBO movie, etc), I have to delete something from the To Do List - it's always at 99. However, most of these SLs are *daily* records. So over a two week period, the ToDo list is probably on going out 4-6 days and constantly working to update itself Regardless of that, I can't tell you how great it is to have on demand Blue or Dora without waiting for the DVD to load :hurah: :hurah: !!!

In the Fall TV season, we'll have a few more SLs, but maybe 15 total. I'd consider myself a medium user, not a power user, but I still have problems often enough to mumble under my breath.... Also, I have two R15-500s and both turners are connected on each unit, and I do not use autorecord....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Is that from SL's alone or are there auto records and single records in there? I don't do any auto's and only do about 1 or 2 single records a week. Does yours tend to stay in the 90's?


99 Percet SL's
There is probably a spot few manual records.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jim B said:


> Regardless of that, I can't tell you how great it is to have on demand Blue or Dora without waiting for the DVD to load :hurah: :hurah: !!!


I totally understand that. The little one (1.5 years) doesn't care about the TV but the older two 7 and 10 love having a few shows sitting there. I haven't put many SL's in for them just Power Rangers and Time Warp Trio. Those are one of the Few SL's that I limit to 5 (10 if it was an option). Most of my other SL's are at keep all.

I guess I'm never going to figure out what fills or doesn't fill the Todo list. Maybe if I add a kids show like dora, wiggles or blues clues I'd get it pegged at the 99. Jim and Earl what is the most number of times that a show in your SL's normally airs in one day? I think the most I usally get is out of Simpons and that's only 3 or SG1 mondays it's 4. Sometimes Monk and Mythbusters will do a block of shows. I'm assuming Blues clues, Dora and Wiggles must come on alot (I've never really counted but they aways seem like they are on).


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I have been "trying" to use my R-15 a little more since its meltdown weeks ago so I dont seem just a complainer :nono: and offer my thoughts about it but all I am getting is multiple dups anymore and sluggishness when doing anything. Even pressing List takes a few seconds for the screen to appear. The R-10 is no speed demon but it does everything much faster than my R-15 except of course the guide and if your trying to reorg a super lot of SP's.

Two presses to get the guide still bothers me. I know its no real big deal, it just irks me as the R-10 has options too but the guide comes up first THEN you can choose options if you want.

I have 126 SP's on my R-10 and even with only 35 SL's (I deleted a bunch to see if that helps any) on my R-15, its still just not right. My TDL is almost always on 99 but most of that is dups, I just dont bother to waste time deleting them anymore and most of the recordings are dups.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Two presses to get the guide still bothers me. I know its no real big deal, it just irks me as the R-10 has options too but the guide comes up first THEN you can choose options if you want.


I know this doesn't solve the problem but if you hold down the guide button it will do the same thing. It still takes the same amount of time but you don't have to press the button again. I can't wait till the change this it's one of those little things that would make me happy, but if I had to choose this over removing the limits I would choose the limits.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> I have been "trying" to use my R-15 a little more since its meltdown weeks ago so I dont seem just a complainer :nono: and offer my thoughts about it but all I am getting is multiple dups anymore and sluggishness when doing anything. Even pressing List takes a few seconds for the screen to appear. The R-10 is no speed demon but it does everything much faster than my R-15 except of course the guide and if your trying to reorg a super lot of SP's.


I think the reformat you mentioned in another thread just might clear up your problem. If you go through that process you may also want to run Seagate diagnostics on the drive. Could be you've got some bad sectors on the drive.


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## Jim B (Feb 4, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Jim and Earl what is the most number of times that a show in your SL's normally airs in one day?


I am recording from Nick, Sprout and Noggin. BUT, the R15 will not tape across channels, so an SL for Dora on 298 only works for Dora on 298 at that time of the day. Same goes for other kid shows that you find on those 10 channels. So, I get Dora every day at whatever time I pick..... And usually each day there are two or three in the morning and the same in the afternoon. One SL will not get them all, and from what I read on the forums here, it's in how the guide is programmed by D*, not Nick or Noggin.....

So, one show title (Blue or Dora) may air six times in a day, with three different episodes that air in the morning and repeat in the afternoon, but the SL will only get ONE. Even if I try to do three SLs in a row, so to speak, to catch the 3 different episodes, it will cancel out the one before it. Only way is to manually pick them out over the guide or through the list from a "find by/search." I suppose the auto record might get all of them, but I've never used and don't know the logic it follows to pick shows.

Long answer - was that what you were looking for? I think the kid shows are unusually in that they repeat several times daily, every day, and the power users who would complain about this are the 2-8 year olds who are not really concerned as we are !!:lol:!!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I didn't even see the question the first time...

Probably the most is 3 or 4 (depending if there are marathon's)
I have Modern Marvals, Good Eats, I Want That, How is that made

I've got a bunch that are on twice a day


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jim B said:


> Long answer - was that what you were looking for? I think the kid shows are unusually in that they repeat several times daily, every day, and the power users who would complain about this are the 2-8 year olds who are not really concerned as we are !!:lol:!!


LOL.

I guess I must not have enough for the "right shows" to get the R15 pegged at 99. I was figuring that you or Earl had a show that maybe aired 10 times in a day. I think that most of my SL's are primetime shows but things like southpark, mythbusters, Monk, Pysch, Simpons and SG1 (going of the top of my head here) don't aways air every day and don't aways air 4 times.

I guess the reason yours and Earls fills up more is that your shows are on almost every day. We know the todo list doesn't seem to fill up in any logic way but even if it does manage to get 4 days with 4 shows at 4 times a day thats 64 and add the primetime shows and other things the todo list randomly picks up and I guess it does get to 99. Even on a day to say basis 4 shows at 4 showing (16 entrys on the todo list) I don't think I ever have 16 shows on the list for one day unless there is a marathon on. I think the highest I normaly have is 8-10.

So I guess the conclusion to all this is that the todo list is smart enough (or has less of a chance) to not fill to 99 (even if you have 50 SL) as long as you don't have a high number of SL's that normally record multiple times a day.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> if you hold down the guide button it will do the same thing.


Thanks, I never tried that before, I will give that a try when I get home.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

manhole said:


> Ever since 10C8 there is a very bad delay on the channel banner when flipping through channels. I will flip through channels and the receiver does not update the banner with what is on the current channel for 1 - 2 seconds. So it may be on channel 203 but the banner still shows what is on 202. Very annoying when you are channel surfing.
> 
> The problem seems to be better with 10D1, but it is still hit & miss with the delay there about 50% of the time now.


Well, I've noticed that ever since I got my R15 back in Feb. I think I started with 109f. I'm on 10c8 now, and had 3 updates before that. Strange that you should mention that seems to be better with 10d1. I just tried some channel surfing (repeatedly pressing the "channel up" button). The behavior you descibe under 10d1 is what I see with 10c8. I never pay much attention to that banner, though. I'm always wanting it to "go away". The info, delayed or not, does not seem to be very much in the way of "info". I do my "surfing" through "The Guide".


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

The difference I see in display time on 10C8 isn't bad at all. Maybe a second compared to a half second?

BTW, the banner display time is one of the few items you can configure on the R15. It defaults to 4 seconds. But if you go into setup you can change that to 2, 4 or 6 seconds.


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