# Blu-ray - HD-DVD format war set to begin. What will you do?



## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

With competing formats for the next gen DVD set to debute this year (ala VHS vs. Beta), what do you plan to do?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

invaliduser88 said:


> With competing formats for the next gen DVD set to debute this year (ala VHS vs. Beta), what do you plan to do?


The issue is quite a bit different from VHS versus BetaMax because you won't be able to record absolutely everything. Being able to record what you want is going to be a driving force.

I'm also of a mind that the studio commitments to each format aren't going to be enough of a deal to drive the choice. While better than DVD, it may not be better enough to force the issue. Given the hardware compatibility with DVD and Blu-Ray's delays in settling on a DRM/copy protection implementation (Playstation 3 delays), I'm currently thinking that HD-DVD has a major competitive edge.

If Blu-Ray fails, it will probably be Sony's fault... again.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

one item missing one box that does both blue ray and HD DVD as this will be comming out as well in the $2,000 and above price range.


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

But who wants to pay $2000+ to play both formats? IMHO, dual format players will be a niche device for early adopters with cash to burn.

Recordable (HD DVD format) won't follow for a while. Just look at how long play only DVD was out before DVD recorders started hitting the shelves in mass.

Also, cost of titles could be a deciding factor as well.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

I'm getting HD-DVD right out the gate. I like being an early adopter. Heck, someone has to do it.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

I am thinking if for no other reason, the dumb public won't know what "Blu-ray" is, they will buy what seems to be what they want a high definition DVD player, HD-DVD.
Also, whoever gets them out first with the best price point and the most titles will win.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Honestly...

I think the HD-DVD is going to win...

Two Reasons (well three)

First the name:

HD - DVD : High Definition DVD
Consumers already know what "DVD" is... and for the last two years, they have been pounded by HD High Definitions

2nd the Cost:
HD-DVD Player: $500
BlueRay ~ $1,500

If you where average joe comsumer, looking at the shelf

HD-DVD or Blue Ray
A name that makes sense, to something I haven't heard before
$500 or $1,500


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Honestly...
> 
> I think the HD-DVD is going to win...
> 
> ...


cost Blue Ray $1500?? Play Station 3 with Blue Ray dvd comming out in November price $499 Sony is banking on this making blue ray happen:nono:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Last I heard..

The Pioneer Player, which is the first set-top Blue-Ray player is targeted at $1,500 (and this was just a few weeks ago)

About two weeks ago... releases came out from Morgan Stanley that figures the PS3 is going to run at least $800-$900 to build. They can't see Sony taking a $300-$400 hit per unit sold... 

The bulk of that cost is in the blue-ray cost.

Some other anaylsis done, pointed that a lot of owners of HDTV still are not ready for "games" to be played on their $2,000 TV(heck most of my friends are still freaked I play XBOX360 on my plasma)...

And some think that PS3 may not make it as a "Blu-Ray" player for the masses.

Again, time will only tell.

(Question: Was there an official press release about the November and $499 details for Sony?... if so... I missed that one.. .badly)


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I'll stick with my Sony upconversion DVD player for now


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/16/engadget-amp-joystiqs-live-coverage-of-sonys-playstation-3/

Sony's let go of the final specs and shots of the PlayStation 3. Here you go!

It will support Blu-ray (obviously), DVD±R/W, CD-R/RW

Backwards compatible with the PlayStation 2 and original Playstation

One 3.2GHz Cell processor-total system performance rated at 2.18 teraflops (uh, that's actually about twice what Microsoft is claiming the Xbox 360 will do); it will have 256MB system RAM 3.2GHz, and 256MB GDDR VRAM at 700MHz

The nVidia graphics will be called the RSX ("Reality Synthesizer"), and will trump the Xbox 360 with 1080p (yes, that's a p) graphics support.

There will be a 2.5-inch hard drive (i.e. laptop hard drive) attachment-a first for a Sony launch (no, we don't count the PSX and/or the FF add-on)

Memory Stick Duo slot, and very surprisingly, an SD and CF slots

Bluetooth support with up to seven wireless controllers

Six USB system ports


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/11/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/

The strongest argument behind the $499 price point is the PS3's inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive. This bleeding edge technology will give Sony (Research) significant bragging rights, but it comes at a cost. Pioneer last week at the Consumer Electronics Show unveiled a standalone Blu-Ray player for $1,800.

Obviously, Pioneer's earning some profit there - and Sony will almost certainly subsidize the cost of the drives, but you're still looking at an expensive bit of hardware. The PS3 will also feature other pricey items, such as a hard drive, the Cell processor and a new graphics chip from nVidia (Research


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I'll hold off. I'm making my hardware investments in my home theater PC right now. I've got about a half terabyte of storage for multi-media and just dropped a HD tuner card last week. With a great graphics card, I get better PQ for both DVD and HDTV than I do with my Sony ES9000 and 942.

John


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

My totally non-scientific research shows that the price point for the average consumer for an item like this (VCR, DVD player, DVD recorder, etc.) is about $150-$200. When the average price of "new" technology gets below $200 the average person will start seriously considering buying one. Until then, a standard DVD player will do just fine. Especially for all the people who in just the last year bought a new DVD recorder when they hit that point. They are NOT going to turn around and spend $500 and especially not $1500 on one of these. For most of the average consumers, they (and especially their wives) are not going to see a big enough difference. Face it guys, most of us who post here are not average, or normal. :lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/16/engadget-amp-joystiqs-live-coverage-of-sonys-playstation-3/
> 
> Sony's let go of the final specs and shots of the PlayStation 3. Here you go!
> 
> ...


Check the date on that thread......

March 16.... *2005*

I don't think the specs have changed... but
It is not the most upto date deal....


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

I was on the fence. As a retailer that ain't a good idea. Attended the Sony show in Vegas this week. As one of, if not the last retailers to carry Beta machines. As the first in this area to show HD, the first to show OTA HD, DLP, Plasma, DVD Audio, DVD and many other technologies, it is probably not a wise stratagem. Flying out to Vegas, I remembered our first sales of DVD. We carried the Sony reference model at $1000 and the 2 Panasonic units at $599 and $799. We couldn't keep the Sony unit in stock. The Sony show reinforced this thought. We'll carry the Sony unit at $1000, when available in July.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Bogy said:


> ...Face it guys, most of us who post here are not average, or normal. :lol:


Remember, you said that, Bogy, not me! 

(Sorry, Preacher, you walked right into that one and I'm so _'feeble' _I just couldn't resist the temptation. :grin: :hurah: :lol: )


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Bogy said:


> Especially for all the people who in just the last year bought a new DVD recorder when they hit that point. They are NOT going to turn around and spend $500 and especially not $1500 on one of these.


This is kind of a "bird in the hand" argument. Where you slipped up was comparing a recorder with known potential and cheap media to a player.

Compare the $1000 Blu-Ray player to a $30 progressive scan DVD player and you've got yourself a more appropriate comparison. For price points, an LG DVD recorder with progressive scan and DivX certification is going for just over $120 now.

The bleeding edge is going to be gushing.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

olgeezer said:


> I was on the fence. As a retailer that ain't a good idea. Attended the Sony show in Vegas this week. As one of, if not the last retailers to carry Beta machines. As the first in this area to show HD, the first to show OTA HD, DLP, Plasma, DVD Audio, DVD and many other technologies, it is probably not a wise stratagem. Flying out to Vegas, I remembered our first sales of DVD. We carried the Sony reference model at $1000 and the 2 Panasonic units at $599 and $799. We couldn't keep the Sony unit in stock. The Sony show reinforced this thought. We'll carry the Sony unit at $1000, when available in July.


That is because customers are blinded by the "Sony" brand name...

They equate Sony = Good

Which we all know by now... Sony = 20% extra because of the name....


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Nick said:


> Remember, you said that, Bogy, not me!
> 
> (Sorry, Preacher, you walked right into that one and I'm so _'feeble' _I just couldn't resist the temptation. :grin: :hurah: :lol: )


Nice catch, Nick. Good to see your mental facilities are still in tact!

John


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> That is because customers are blinded by the "Sony" brand name...
> 
> They equate Sony = Good
> 
> Which we all know by now... Sony = 20% extra because of the name....


Actually Sony means soon only not yet. I learned that 15 years ago after learning a customers view. A nice lady told me that sony was owned by the Rockefellers. I responded that I hadn't heard that, why was that so. She said Sony stands for Standard Oil of New York. There is one thing about Sony I firmly believe, the first of a product they make is bulletproof. That is the reason I never hesitate in new products from Sony.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

Nick said:


> Remember, you said that, Bogy, not me!
> 
> (Sorry, Preacher, you walked right into that one and I'm so _'feeble' _I just couldn't resist the temptation. :grin: :hurah: :lol: )


I walked into what? :lol:
When have I EVER claimed to be average OR normal.  I am well above average, and I'm not exactly normal either. :lol:

Like some of the rest of you I am the guy standing in the store advising customers who are being misinformed or non-informed by the store's employees. Standing in line at Wal-Mart a few days ago hearing an older woman worrying about how to hook up her new DVD player, I gave her a quick course on how easy it is. We want the absolute best signal. My wife just wants a picture on the tv and sound to go with it. I'm the one who spends hours figuring out the settings to give us the very best sound and picture possible. There are obviously enough of us out there to make it worth the while for companies to develop those bleeding edge products, but the numbers sold are miniscule compared to those sold when the price drops to that price point where those who just want a nice picture will buy into a technology.

I would be more of a bleeding edge guy, except for the problem of not being able to afford it. :lol:


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Got an upconverting dvd player and a tv that upconverts on most of it's inputs. I am set for now. When the dust finally settles on this little format war I will go with the winner. But only if the price drops down to a comparable price with what dvds and the dvd players are now. Until then I'll just keep watching upconverted dvds.


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## guyDTH (Jan 8, 2004)

i wait for who offered second audio option in spanish.


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## petec (Dec 30, 2004)

HD-DVD wins:

1. They'll have the first machines at a reasonable price (Toshiba).
2. The first releases of HD-DVD's are almost here! 
(This is the main reason the HD-DVD machines have been delayed)
3. The killer will be the releasing of new DVD's with std DVD on one side and HD-DVD
the other side. If they keep the pricing reasonable (perhaps even at a loss to begin
with close to current prices), this could become a defacto standard. 
This would encourage new DVD player purchases to be HD-DVD machines 
(since the user would already have a "library" of HD-DVD's.)


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

petec said:


> HD-DVD wins:
> 
> 1. They'll have the first machines at a reasonable price (Toshiba).
> 2. The first releases of HD-DVD's are almost here!
> ...


And while most of the movie studios have decided not to include downresing option on BluRay disks, Time Warner will include it on HDVD disks. Toshiba just delayed the release of the players from end March to mid April and now not sure (as of yesterday).


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

guyDTH said:


> i wait for who offered second audio option in spanish.


This is more likely a software issue than a format issue. The publishers will include it if there is sufficient demand and they don't have to sacrifice a more popular feature. I'm not quite sure how each plans on handling the concept of DVD regions should it be necessary to buy out-of-market content to get a Spanish language version.

If you're expecting SAP (MTS) support, I'd say probably not as that is defined only in the context of RF modulated NTSC television. I'm betting that RF out will not be a feature of any of these units.

HD DVD has support for eight (7.1) audio channels and it is thought (but apparently not yet known) that Blu-Ray will offer similar support. How the publishers use them is anybody's guess.

I'm beginning to wonder if HD DVD people are waiting to see what Blu-Ray finally settles on to make sure they aren't one-upped by something cooking on the Blu-Ray campfire.


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Most current DVDs have Spanish and French dialog and caption options. The DVD players just access those software options. I would think that would be true on the new disks as well. I would think the regional coding would remain intact as its main reason for being is laws of various countries.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Niveus Media, manufacturer of media entertainment devices for the high-end audio/video
market, announced that it will support the HD-DVD format and begin shipping its 
line of Niveus Media Centers utilizing Intel Viiv technology. The new media centers
are designed to enhance and help manage the enjoyment of digital entertainment in
the home, the company said.

"While we may have additional announcements later this year regarding the Blu-Ray
disc format, we are ready to announce that product development is well underway 
to deliver HD-DVD in the award-winning Niveus Media Center by mid-2006," said
Tim Cutting, CEO and founder, Niveus Media. "By combining our award winning
ISF-certified Niveus Media Center, with HD-DVD and Intel Viiv technology, Niveus
authorized dealers will have a powerful solution to bring into the high definition
DVD era."

Niveus Media is demonstrating the Intel Viiv technology-based Niveus Media Center
featuring HD-DVD at the Electronic House Expo in Orlando from March 30 through
April 1. For more information, visit http://www.ehxweb.com.

www.SkyRetailer.com - used with permission


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Today, on the anniversary of President Reagan being shot and of the 15th amendment, Sony has made the BluRay player available to order for dealers, planned shipping date August 2006.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

and.......................................................they're off!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

olgeezer said:


> Sony has made the BluRay player available to order for dealers, planned shipping date August 2006.


Shouldn't that be "announced" as opposed to "made available"???

The PS3 was scheduled for August release at one time too if that is any indication.


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

harsh said:


> Shouldn't that be "announced" as opposed to "made available"???
> 
> The PS3 was scheduled for August release at one time too if that is any indication.


Actually the irony of that, is the announcement was that the players would be available in July. Available to order means that there is a product with a cost and an anticipated shipping month and that was a notification to dealers. Remember that Sony stands for soon only not yet.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Friday, Toshiba announced that they are now shipping their first HD-DVD player. MSRP is $799 which is a little more than half of the "not to exceed" price of Panasonic's Blu-Ray piece. The Japan market model is available now.

There is an AP wire story about the release, but no specifications.

The Blu-Ray camp better be prepared to hit the ground running. Six months is a long time to hold one's breath.

I still think that the choice of which way to go won't be made until somebody ships a consumer level recorder. It is entirely possible that the market can support something that costs twice as much all the way around (Blu-Ray hardware and media) if they get it to market far enough in advance of the competition.


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

Today, Samsung delayed Blu-Ray launch at least 30 days. That makes Sony Toshiba Samsung, LG and maybe RCA offering delays in both formats. Late standards, software, hardware, don't want to be first out of the gate?????any guesses?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

olgeezer said:


> Today, Samsung delayed Blu-Ray launch at least 30 days. That makes Sony Toshiba Samsung, LG and maybe RCA offering delays in both formats. Late standards, software, hardware, don't want to be first out of the gate?????any guesses?


Toshiba is shipping their upscale model now and expects to release a less expensive model in the not too distant future.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

I read somewhere about a third HD format that is already in service in India. It uses good old fashioned red lasers allowing the players to be made for about the cost of present DVD units. That technology should render this debate moot but it will not. The problem is only movie titles for India are or will be available. 

--- CHAS


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Great! I just love _Bollywood_ flicks. :nono:


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## ronton3 (Mar 15, 2006)

This will probably be an unpopular position  but when I signed up for Dish 18 months I stopped buying DVDs, I used to by several each month, with 120 channels and no premium channels I still had a lot to choose from, I am not an explosion fan, and like older movies and stuff from IFC, and now world, monster, kungfu etc, I havent watched a DVD for so long I have to pause to remember how the remote works, since I got a 622 a couple of weeks ago I now watch almost nothing but HD channels, Im thinking about going to the Bronze package. I have a 4 year old Toshiba DVD and Cinema 36 inch TV that are both very good quaility, my current plan is to wait until toshiba comes out with SED, if SONYs PS3 turns out not to be terribly expensive, 5 or 6 hundred I might buy one for the additional Computer and Storage capabilities, Ive never played a video game but if I could find something that isnt a constant dose of death and destruction I might, also I know I will if it can be hacked to run OS X, but for the Format wars I will not participate until there is a clear advantage over HD movies on dish---there are so many on and they repeat so often Ive decided I dont need to own them. Last night I watched Skeleton Key purched from PPV and thought the quality of the visual experience was only fair, would a HD DVD of that movie be better and why.


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