# DBSTALK FIRST LOOK: In-Home Dish DVR-921 Review



## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

A complete specifications sheet in PDF format can be downloaded HERE.

This review is based on beta software version L142, and will be updated as future software versions are released.

*Introduction*

Here's the front of the 921 sitting on my coffee table, getting ready to be installed into my equipment rack.

 

Here's the back of the 921.

 

Closeup of the satellite and antenna inputs on the back of the 921. I was afraid they would be too close together to easily get the three coax cables connected, but the spacing does allow for comfortable connection.

 

Here's another closeup of the back of the 921 showing the DVI port, the rf output, 2 composite/RCA audio outputs, 1 composite/RCA audio input, the component output, 2 DishWire ports, a usb port, and the phone jack. The svideo and toslink outputs are just to the left of the DVI port.

 

*Installation of the 921*

I placed the 921 in my equipment rack and connected all of the cables on the back. Note - you must have both satellite tuners connected to coax coming from your switch or dish. That's 2 lines connected. Just below and to the left of the 2 satellite tuner inputs is where the over the air coax antenna line is connected. I'm viewing HD material via component cables, as I don't have a DVI connection on my television. Audio is via the toslink (optical) port that I have connected to my receiver. I also connected svideo and composite video to a vcr and to my computer to take the screenshots you see.

After the connections were made, I turned on the receiver and got ready to wait. It's always been my experience that when a receiver is first connected, you have to sit and wait for the software to be updated before you can do anything. But, like with the 721, not in this case. I turned the power on, and channel 101 appeared immediately. So, I went into the system setup screen to set up my satellites. A quick check switch later, and both satellite tuner inputs recognized my DP34 switch. I then went back to live television and picture was there. A side note here - at this point I would have had to call Dish to authorize the receiver, but the receiver had already been authorized for my account before I picked it up from Dish.

I was pleasantly surprised when the 921 powered up. I've lived with the jet engine fan noise coming from the 6000 8VSB module for the last 2 years. I am very happy to say that the 921 is MUCH quieter than the 6000 (unless of course you disconencted your 8VSB fan). If nothing else is on, and there's no noise in the room, then the 921 fan can be heard, but if there's anything making noise in your room, the 921 noise is just about completely inaudible. The fans in my HTPC are louder, and I've worked very hard at making it as quiet as possible. Is the 921 fan too loud for a bedroom? Probably. But, it's a night and day difference coming from the 6000.

View of the Point Dish screen.

 

View of the Check Switch screen.

 

Screen showing my check switch was successful.

 

So, I now have all of my channels available. Switched over to HDNet and watched a bit of Bikini Destinations. Flipped around - sure enough, all of my channels were there. Then I tried the PVR functions. Nothing&#8230; Up pops a message about this program is being downloaded from satellite. Please try again later. I figure I need to check the software version and try to force the software upgrade that I know is waiting for me. So, back into the setup screen, to the software upgrade option. And lo and behold, the software upgrade is already in progress. In fact, it has been in progress since I finished the check switch. I had been watching live television for the last 15 minutes while the software was upgrading in the background. Very cool! No more having to wait the hour or so for the software to download before doing anything! It took right at 46 minutes to complete the software download, install and reboot process. Once it was done, I was ready to go. All of the menu functions were now available as well as the PVR functions.

Software upgrade screen with the download partially done.

 

Unlike the 811, this 921's video output was set to 480p as a default rather than 720p. If the shipping versions of the 921s are set to 480p as the default, then no one should have to connect the svideo or composite to get a picture first. More about the aspect ratios later on.

Default shipping setting is 480p. Display setup screen showing current output of 480i.


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## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921, Page 2*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

*The Remote*

Like the 811, the uhf pro remote that comes with the 921 (it's the same remote as the 811) does not send IR signals to the 921. It sends UHF only signals. That's a problem for pronto users, and users of other learning remote controls. I'm going to work with Dish to compile a selection of IR codes for the pronto remote for the buttons on this remote that aren't available anywhere else for all remote addresses. Other than the lack of IR from the remote to control the 921, the remote is well laid out and comfortable to use. It looks very similar to the older platinum remotes that ship with the 5xx series of receivers, except that some of the buttons are more recessed than others. For example - the * (format) and the # (search) buttons are only about half as high as the rest of the number pad. Makes it very easy to use the remote by feel without having to look at it.

 

*The Interface*

The 921 interface is based on the 721 interface. The 921's operating system is DishLinux just like the 721. I had never used a 721 before starting to play with the 921. My Dish PVR experience is based on the 5xx series of receivers, so a lot of my comparisons will be based on the 5xx series interface. Please note, that because the 921 operates on a Linux based operating system, rebooting the 921 takes longer than other dish receivers. Average reboot time is between 2 and 3 minutes in my experience.

I really like the interface and the look and feel of everything. Very slick and polished. And even though I had never used a 721 before, the interface is easy enough to navigate that I never felt lost. Let's look at some pictures.

Here's the main menu, along with the TV Listing sub menu.

 

Here's the first page of the Preferences screen. This is the standard layout for options screens throughout the software. Very nice looking, and very easy to navigate with the remote. Notice the television image in the upper corner - just about every screen has the TV window, so you can go just about anywhere in the software and still keep an eye on what you're watching. And, all of the DVR functions work with the small TV window display! Much better than the 5xx series!

 

Here's the guide. Seven lines of program information, along with program descriptions in the top left corner and the TV image in the top right corner. This guide is FAST - you can scroll through it so fast that the text isn't readable. It's so much faster than the 5xx guide, that my jaw just about hit the floor the first time I went guide surfing. More about the guide later in the operations section.


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## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921, Page 3*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

*Operation of the 921*

So, how does this receiver work? All in all, pretty well. There are a few problems with it, but nothing that can't be fixed in future updates. So, let's dig right in and start looking at how this thing works.

The first thing I want to comment on is directly based on posts that some people have left in forums around the internet regarding the recording capability of the 921. The 921 is very capable of recording TWO high definition programs AND watching a pre-recorded high definition program. Yes, that's THREE high definition program streams being handled simultaneously. The 921 worked perfectly! It, however, can't record three high definition streams (2 from satellite and 1 from OTA) at the same time.

The next important issue to comment on is the pause buffer. The 921 offers a high definition pause buffer of *120 minutes*.

So now, let's dig into the menus.

Here's the main menu. Let's first take a look at option 1 - TV Listing.

 

Under the TV Listing option, as you can see in the picture, we have access to the DVR List, the Search function, the Themes function, the Guide and your PPV purchase history. Of course, all of these except for the purchase history can be accessed directly with the remote control.

 

Here's the DVR list screen. The 921 has 2 satellite tuners and 1 over the air digital tuner built in. Notice on this screen there are 2 programs currently recording - The Phantom from HBO-HD and Jefferson Starship: Acoustic from HDNet. Yes, that's 2 HD programs recording simultaneously! Also, as with the other screens, The Phantom is playing in the upper TV corner.

 

Scroll down on the DVR list past your recorded events, and you will see the list of timers that are set to record in the future. I already find this very convenient that the timers are also located here rather than just on the timer management screen.

 

Selecting Search from the menu, or pressing the # (search) key on the remote brings you to the search screen. Like with the other dish receivers, text can be entered directly from the guide, by using the number keypad on the remote, or by using the on screen keyboard.

 

Here's the search results screen after doing a search for "The Phantom".

 

Here's the Themes screen, accessed from the menu or from the left arrow button on the remote. Pretty standard operation like all of the other dish receivers. Select a category, and all of the upcoming events that match that category will be displayed.

 

Here's the theme results when I told it to search for movies. The red X means that's a channel I don't subscribe to. And of course, how convenient that all of the PPV movies are listed first&#8230;

 

Here's the guide screen, accessed from the menu or from the guide button on the remote. Once again notice the 2 red dots - 2 HD channels recording at the same time. I really, really like this guide so much better than the 5xx guide. All of the standard guide functions work - the skip forward and skip back buttons navigate you 24 hours into the future or into the past. You can enter a number on the remote and press the left or right arrow keys to move forward or back that many hours in the guide. You can enter a number and press select to jump to that channel. Timers are easily defined from the guide.


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## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921, Page 4*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

*Operation of the 921, part 2*

Now, back to the menu. Option 2 on the main menu "Staying in Touch" brings up the Caller ID History. I'd show you a screen shot of this, but I don't have caller ID on my land line&#8230;

 

So, on to option 4. The preferences menu is where you define favorite lists, view and change your preferences, language settings, dolby digital settings, DVHS DishWire settings and closed caption settings. As you can see, the DishWire feature has not yet been activated. Let's take a look at the View Preferences option.

 

You can see the options that are set from this screen. I really wish they'd add the Timer Icon Popup option to the 5xx series of receivers. Here's page 2:

 

I want to talk about the transparent guide and display. I think it's a really great idea, except it just doesn't work very well. I don't have a screenshot of it because it just doesn't look good yet. I think it has the potential to look really great in future software updates, but it's not there yet in my opinion. This is also the screen that you can adjust your horizontal and vertical screen position.

 

The Favorites setup, Language setup, and DD setup are standard screens just like the other receivers. No changes, other than the look of the screens.

Here's the Closed Captioning screen. As you can see, lots of different options.

 

And here's a shot of the closed captioning working on HBO-HD.

 

Now, back to the main menu and selecting the Locks option brings us to the Locks screen. Same options as the other receivers.

 

Now let's take a look at the System Setup options from the Main Menu. Here's the System Info screen option, accessable from the menu here. The system information screen is also accessible from theSysInfo button on the front of the 921. Note, there is no SysInfo button on the remote.

 

Software version L142 will not be the software version of the 921 when it ships. It's a pre-release beta version that I am testing. Overall it's pretty stable, but there are still a few issues that need to be fixed before shipping the 921 to the public.

 

I like the look of the point dish screen. It's easier to navigate than on the 5xx series receivers.

 

Here's the telephone setup screen. In the future, Dish may require all receivers be connected to a phone line in an attempt to cut down on signal theft. This'll be a tough requirement for me to meet, as I currently have 3 dish receivers sitting in the same location, and don't have a phone jack anywhere close to that location. My setup is in my finished basement, so running a new phone line through the walls isn't an option. So, when the day comes that I have to plug in the phone line to all of my receivers, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Hopefully, Dish can come up with a solution to this problem. I'm all for cutting down on signal theft - the thieves deserve to be caught and shut down. Enough with the rant&#8230;

 

Here's the standard VCR setup option. Note - this isn't where you will set up a DVHS vcr for digital recording of high definition material via DishWire. That option is not yet enabled, but Dish has told me that it will be enabled as soon as possible. They are very aware of our desire to transfer HD material off of the 921 to DVHS.

 

The Diagnostic tests screen is where you test your phone line connection. There is also an option called Hard Drive that isn't yet enabled, and I have no idea what it will test if and when it is enabled. Factory Defaults will reset your receiver settings to the default settings. Software Update shows the status of any software update you are receiving, as shown earlier in this review.


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## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921, Page 5*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

*Operation of the 921, part 3*

So, let's now look at the local channel setup. This is what the local channel screen looks like after Digital channels have been added. Pressing Scan DTV will cause the 921 to scan for local OTA channels.

 

The 921 scans from channel 2 to channel 69. The process takes between 3 and 4 minutes to complete. The channel counter updates as new channels are found. The bar graph is pretty, but I think I would have preferred a numerical counter as opposed to the graph so that I could see exactly which channels are added, and which ones are missed.

 

Here's the Add DTV screen, where you manually add DTV channels. This is the only screen on the 921 where you will see a signal strength indicator for local digital channels. The 6000 used to display the signal strength in the channel banner. The 921 does not. I'm not sure what the 125 scale means - no other receiver that I know of uses a scale for signal strength above 100. So, it makes it difficult to directly compare local tuner sensitivity to other receivers. What I can say, though, is the 921 tuner is more sensitive than the 6000 8VSB tuner. In Denver, very few of us can receive our ABC station, channel 17 because they broadcast their signal from the top of their 6 story building downtown. I live 3 miles away from there, and could just barely receive their signal on the 6000. On the 921, I pick up their signal better, as the following screen shows:

 

For the Denver readers, this screen may be of interest to you. 

 

Analog channels are added in the same manner. Here's the Scan ATV screen. This scan takes much less time to complete than the Scan Digital channels.

 

And, here's the local channels screen with all of the analog channels added. The local channels show up at the beginning of the guide as 2-0, 2-1, etc.

 

And finally, let's look at the Display Setup. First of all, unlike the 811, the 921 does not simultaneously output HD via the component cables and SD via svideo or composite video. It's one or the other, and is switched with the HD/SD button on the remote control.

I have a 16x9 Sony HDTV, so I have the 921 set to 16x9 mode. A very interesting note - when set to 16x9 and 480i mode (when the receiver is in SD mode), and you are tuned to a HD channel, the video output is anamorphic, meaning your 16x9 television needs to be set to Full or Anamorphic mode as well to display the image correctly. This is new to me - on all previous dish receivers that I have used, the 16x9 function didn't do anything. Now it does. 16x9 mode offers aspect ratios of Normal, Stretch, Zoom and Gray Bars. 4x3#1 mode offers aspect ratios of Normal, Zoom, Letterbox (puts black bars on top and bottom of image) and Gray Bars (puts gray bars on top and bottom of image). 4x3#2 mode offers aspect ratios of Normal, Stretch, Zoom and Gray Bars. All aspect ratios are labled in the browse banner.

Also, unlike the 811 currently, the aspect ratios do work on the 921. By the time you read this, the 811 will probably be fixed, but it's not yet at the time of writing.

 

Here are some screen shots showing the different aspect ratios. What's interesting about the gray bars mode, is that the gray bars fade in over 2 or 3 seconds when the gray bars mode is selected.

 

 

 

 

Ok, let's now look at the timer management screens. Pretty standard timer screen.

 

Timers can be sorted in several different ways. Clicking on the Sort option brings us to the Timer Sort screen. Timers can be sorted alphabetically, by frequency (once, daily, weekly, etc.), by type (DVR, Reminder, VCR, etc) or by order they will be firing.

 

Here's the first screen seen to create or edit a timer. The start and end pad options are new to me, as I'm coming from a 5xx background, but they're old hat to you 721 users.

 

Here's the 2nd screen. Pretty standard.

 

So, the next item on the menu is the Interactive TV. Under Interactive TV, we have Games and Weather. First, the Games. Nice selection of games to try out. Note that these are not the OpenTV games that are available on the 5xx series of receivers, as the 921 does not have OpenTV loaded yet.

 

Now, the weather. I can see using this quite a bit. The list of cities that can be set look pretty extensive. The first weather screen is the 5 day forecast.

 

Pressing the Current button will bring up the Current Conditions screen. It looks like the weather data is updated hourly.


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## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921, Page 6*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

*Operation of the 921, part 4*

So, that's it for the main menu options. Now, let's take a look at how the DVR options display on screen. First up, here's what appears when you press rewind. Rewind speeds of 4x, 15x, 60x and 300x are available. Same with Forward Fast.

 

Here are the skip back and skip forward functions. Skip back is the standard 9 or 10 seconds, and skip forward is the standard 30 seconds. All DVR functions work very well with the HD material as well as with the SD material.

 

 

And pause.

 

Here are the slow motion and frame advance functions. Slow motion control is accessed by pressing Pause, and then using the REW or FF DVR buttons. Reverse slow motion is available at 1/4th speed, while Forward slow motion is available at 1/15th speed and 1/4th speed.

 

 

 

Frame advance is controlled by pressing Pause, and then using the DVR functions Skip Back and Skip Forward to advance frames in the reverse or forward direction.

 

 

The browse banner is a big improvement over the 5xx series receivers. Let's take a look by pressing the browse button (right arrow button) on the remote. I really like the REC icon in the banner. I also really like the next show information displayed to the right of the current show information. It makes the browse banner very useful.

 

Pressing the Info button on the remote will display program information in 2 modes - transparent and opaque. Transparent is displayed first, then pressing info again will make the display opaque. Here are the screenshots showing the difference. Of course, you can cancel out after the transparent display if you like.


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## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921, Page 7*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

*Operation of the 921, part 5*

I've saved this one for the end of the review - OTA Digital recording&#8230; The 921 has the capability of recording over the air digital stations, and does it very well. But, currently there is no guide data provided for OTA stations. The 921 does not read PSIP guide data because stations around the country implement PSIP guide data differently. And, not all stations send PSIP guide data in their transmission signals. Only 2 of our stations here in Denver use PSIP to send out guide data, the others don't. So, how do you record OTA channels with no guide data? You have to set up manual recordings, rather than using the guide. Or, you can use the guide to set up a recording off of one of your satellite local channels and then edit the timer to change the channel to your OTA digital channel. That's worked some of the time for me. This isn't a bug, but it is a problem. And Dish Network is very aware that it's a problem. Unfortunately, it's a problem that won't be fixed until well into next year. Dish has a plan for solving the issue, but I'm not allowed to tell you that plan becuase of the terms of the NDA that I signed. I can tell you, though, that it's a very good plan that will make everyone happy once it's in place.

So, that's the basic operation of the 921 receiver. If you're still with me, I want to close this review talking about what's good about the receiver and what's not so good yet.

*What's Good:*

DVR functions work well with HD. HD recording from satellite works well (including 2 recordings simultaneously). OTA tuner sensitivity is better than the 6000, although it's difficult to tell how much better. The interface is well laid out to make navigation easy. The guide speed is faster than any other guide I've ever seen. The guide layout is great, with 7 lines of program information along with the tv display. The remote layout and key placement are very good. Aspect Ratios work in HD mode. 480p is an output option, rather than forcing upconversion of 480p to 1080i or 720p. Programming can be watched during software download. Can record HD from the OTA tuner. Fan noise is much less than with the 6000.

*What's Not So Good*

There are still some outstanding bugs that need to be fixed before the 921 will be completely stable. I'm purposefully not discussing them in this review because the receiver hasn't started shipping to the public yet, and because the bugs have been reported to Dish through the beta process. There's no Partial Zoom aspect ratio available. The DishWire hasn't been activated yet. Signal Strength for OTA digital channels doesn't display anywhere except in the local channel setup screens. No OpenTV yet. No OTA guide data yet. No Name-Based recording.


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## Mark Lamutt

*Dish DVR-921, Page 8*
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator 
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

*Update #1, 12-21-03*

I've gone through all of the questions from the last week, and have gathered together the answers to those questions that I said I'd take a look at this weekend. They are presented here, along with some new screenshots.

*Composite Video Inputs*

The 921 has 1 set of composite video / RCA audio inputs on the back. A source connected to these inputs is selected by pressing 0 and Select from the remote. The video coming from the input is scaled to your selected display resolution (meaning if you have your display properties set to 1080i, the input video source is scaled to 1080i and output through component and DVI). The scaling doesn't look great, but it does happen. Recording from the input isn't possible.

*Frame Advance Back and Forward DVR Functions*

I looked at this much more closely, and it appears that the forward frame advance jumps ahead 1 frame at a time, while the reverse frame advance jumps back approximately 5 frames at a time or so.

*OTA Local Digital Recording from Subchannels*

The question was asked if the 921 records separately from different subchannels, or if the entire stream is recorded. Each digital subchannel is considered to be a different channel by the 921, and as such is available to be recorded separately.

*Is there a Closed Captioning option "CC only when muted"?*

No. CC is always on or always off.

*What's the maximum number of timers that can be set?*

I was able to set 64 timers before the following screen popped up:

 

At that point, I had to delete a timer before I could add another one.

*Separate memory for HD and SD, similar to 6000?*

The answer to this one currently is no. If a HD channel is set to Normal mode, then SD channels will also be in Normal mode when the SD/HD button is pressed. One AR is active, whether you're watching HD or SD.

*Using satellite locals to get program info for local OTA recordings*

I had said in my review earlier that I had gotton this to work. I couldn't get it to work again in my testing this weekend. So, it appears that it's not possible (or at least not possible reliably) to set a timer to a satellite local channel, and then edit that timer to change the recording channel to a local OTA digital channel, and still retain the program information for the recording.

*Recording OTA local digital channels*

I did a lot of testing on this issue this weekend with regards to file sizes being recorded, and am pleased to bring you these results. Keep in mind that all of this data is approximate, as I don't have access to the actual size of recordings on the disk - all I have to go on is the approximate record time remaining as presented on the DVR screen.

I did 60 minute long test recordings on four different OTA channels: A 1080i channel broadcasting at 19.0 MB/s video bit rate, a 720p channel broadcasting at 12.752 MB/s VBR, a 480p channel broadcasting at 11.93 MB/s VBR, and a 480i channel broadcasting at 4.513 MB/s VBR.

The 60 minute 1080i 19.0 MB/s recording took 65 minutes of HD recording space.
The 60 minute 720p 12.752 MB/s recording took 47 minutes of HD recording space.
The 60 minute 480p 11.93 MB/s recording took 45 minutes of HD recording space.
The 60 minute 480i 4.513 MB/s recording took 18 minutes of HD recording space.

So, from this I draw this conclusion: The OTA recording capability of the 921 is much better than any of the current recording computer cards on the market today. With those cards, every OTA digital channel, no matter the resolution of the VBR record exactly the same size - around 8.2 GB/hr. The 921 obviously processes the transport stream, stripping out all of the wasted space to record smaller files while maintaining the necessary program information.

*Does the 921 really have to have both satellite tuners connected?*

I tried this...it wasn't pretty. You can't do a check switch if only one of the tuners is connected. If you have no way of running another line to where your 921 will go, then you'll have to wait for the DPP44 switch before getting a 921. There's no other way around it because the 2 tuner operation is integrated into so many different aspects of the programming it's not feasibly possible to run this box on one tuner only. That's the way it is.

*Assign ABC/CBS/NBC to local Digital channel like on 6000?*

This hasn't been implemented on the 921 like it was on the 6000, so there's no way to assign a major network to the local digital channels.

*Locks question*

I didn't test the locks, and don't want to because I'm not sure at this point whether I can get rid of the locks once they're put into place. I don't have complete documentation of the 921 yet, so I don't want to screw up my system with locks if I can't figure out how to make them go away after the test.

*Does the 6000 have more favorite list storage than the 6000?*

I would assume so. The 921 has 4 user editable favorite lists available, and I added all of the channels to all four of the lists, and everything worked fine. If that wasn't the intent of the question, let me know.

*Does the OTA side of the box work without a satellite tuner connected? What about DVR recordings?*

I can't answer the first part of this yet. Look for an answer after the 1st of the year.

I can, however, answer that the DVR recording are available with no satellite tuner connected. When the 921 is powered on without the tuners connected, it comes up to just a black screen. But, pressing the DVR button brings up the DVR list, and all recordings can be viewed.

*Triple Timer resolution*

The 921, like the 721, has triple timer resolution. The following screenshots show the timer resolution screens:

 

 

*Pause Buffer*

Sorry about the pause buffer confusion I caused earlier this week. The pause buffer is in fact 120 minutes for both HD and SD recorded material. Here's the screenshot:


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## Mark Lamutt

This space reserved for review updates.

I've had the 921 since Friday afternoon, the 12th, and have spent just about every waking minute since putting it through it's paces. If you have questions, I'll do my best to answer them if I can. Please be advised that there are issues that I can't discuss due to the Non-Disclosure Agreement that I've signed with Dish Network to beta test the 921.

*I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome all of the people coming to DBSTalk for the first time to read this review! We're glad you're here, and hope you enjoy your stay!* :hi:


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## Scott Greczkowski

So what is the one big bug it has, you have been posting all over the place about the big bug.

Since the 921 is being released this week they should know what to expect.

Congrats Mark!


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## Cyclone

I wonder if the 16x9 Aspect Ratio setting actually does anything this time?


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## Mark Lamutt

Cyclone - read page 5 of my review. It does. 

Scott - I still can't say what the big bug is, but I can say that about 35 minutes ago I received word from the engineers that the bug has been reproduced and identified and that they are working on the fix now.


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## clapple

IT's ALIVE!! IT's ALIVE!!  

Actually, I can't wait. But will have to wait for the new switch (44+ ?? ). that allows one cable input. No reasonable way to run another cable.


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## John Kotches

Did you have opportunity to test Firewire input/output. It would be nice to archive from internal HD to D-VHS, as well as to pass D-VHS MPEG data to the 921, so that you can use DVI out and a single cable, instead of seperate cables.

Cheers,


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## Mark Lamutt

Firewire is not enabled in software version L1.42. The option is disabled on the menu at this point in time - take a look at page 4 of the review, the second screenshot.


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## santellavision

Mark,

What about PQ? 1) HD Compared to the 6000. 2) Upconverting SD to 720p or 1080i?


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## Mark Lamutt

Picture quality is excellent on both the HD and SD side. The SD picture quality, with the display settings set to output 480p is the best I've ever seen a Dish receiver output. HD isn't significantly different than it was with the 6000. 480i SD output via svideo is slightly better than watching via svideo from my 508s, but not noticibly different. 

There are a number of people that have reported that the svideo output on the 811 is much darker than it should be. I can report that this isn't a problem with the 921.

SD upconversion to 1080i isn't as good as SD upconverted to 480p. It's not bad, just doesn't look as good. Here's an example. I have always refused to watch SD football off of Dish channels because the distance shots just look awful. On Sunday, watching football converted to 480p on the 921 was actually a pleasant experience. Certainly not nearly so as HD, but the 480p output from the 921 looks better than my analog cable signal and a hell of a lot better than 480i from my 508s.


When do you want to come over and see it Ernie?


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## mcowher

Will the 921 EVER output to SD and HD simultaneously, or is it a hardware limitation.

What about the RF output? Can this output simultaneously with HD?


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## nclee

Thanks for the review.
I have one question, how noisy is the disk drive during the operation? I like my humble 501 except the buzzing sound it creates.


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## Mark Lamutt

I'm working on getting the answers to your questions now mcowher. I don't know yet. I'll post them when I do know.


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## JMikeF

Mark,
Awesome review - thanks.
Looks like a winner, if DISH truly fixes the major bug.


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## Mark Lamutt

nclee said:


> Thanks for the review.
> I have one question, how noisy is the disk drive during the operation? I like my humble 501 except the buzzing sound it creates.


I have the 921 installed in an audio cabinet behind a glass door. I can very slightly hear the fan running when the room is dead quiet. I can't hear the hard drive at all.

The slight fan noise is why I put in the review that the 921 *might* not be suitable for a bedroom application, but should be perfectably acceptable for a home theater room or living room application.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

JMikeF said:


> Mark,
> Awesome review - thanks.
> Looks like a winner, if DISH truly fixes the major bug.


Thanks, Mike. I put some real work into this beast, in addition to the testing I've done since Friday. I've logged almost 40 hours of 921 use since Friday night at 9:00pm.

I was a little concerned that Dish would have trouble tracking down the bug, but they found it this morning. At this point, they should be able to get it fixed pretty quickly.


----------



## tahoerob

Mark Lamutt said:


> Picture quality is excellent on both the HD and SD side. The SD picture quality, with the display settings set to output 480p is the best I've ever seen a Dish receiver output. .......


Is there an output button on the remote to easily change from 1080i to 480p, say when changing from HDNet to Food Network????

Do the OTA DTV channels integrate with the Dish locals??
Ex. Dish local ABC 7, then next channel is OTA 7-01???

I am glad o hear that the 8vsb seems to be better for those of us who live >50mi from towers!


----------



## Lee L

Wow, cool Mark.

The one thing that is a real downer is the fact that they have not worked anything out as far as OTA guide data. This is the first time this limitation has been brought up anywhere and they have eluded to the fact that the guide would provide this functionality. They are going to catch a ton of flak if the HD DTivo can do this and they are still "working on a solution".


----------



## BobMurdoch

Define "quickly" please..... (and I'm assuming this is going to keep holding up the release?)


----------



## ibglowin

Thanks Mark,

Great review!

......please Santa, please, please, please.......

It sounds like it has shipped with fewer bugs than the 811. Lets hope.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

JMikeF said:


> Mark,
> Awesome review - thanks.
> Looks like a winner, if DISH truly fixes the major bug.


It looks like a 721 on steroids. 

*partial bug description deleted - Dish has asked that that information not be made public knowledge until it's been fixed - ML*

And I am told by Dish that they have found the cause of the problem and are working on a fix for it now.


----------



## BarryO

This sounds like a awesome product; exactly the thing I've bee waiting to replace my 6000 with.

Mark, thanks for the extensive review. This must have been alot of work.

And hats off to the 921 development team on the imminant birth of their new "baby". I've tracked down enough bugs myself to know that reproducing them is always the hardest part. Hopefully they'll be able to get some units out to some of us soon.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Tahoerob - unfortunately, not that I'm aware of. There may be in the future, but the only way I've found to change from 1080i to 480p is through the menu display options.

Lee L - very true...

BobMurdoch - "quickly" means most likely in the next day or two they'll have this bug fixed. Then we test for a few days to make sure the fix didn't break anything else.

ibglowin - the 921 hasn't shipped yet. Very soon now, though!

Scott - Dish specifically asked me not to talk about the bug until it's been fixed.

BarryO - yup...but it was well worth it! I wanted you guys to have the best, non-hype from Dish or other sources, information available about this receiver as soon as possible.


----------



## BobMurdoch

So we are now looking at NEXT week for release?


----------



## Danny R

Some questions:

It appears from your review that you can watch analog OTA channels. Is this correct? I'm assuming you can't record them, and have no guide data.

What function do the composite video and corresponding audio inputs on the back serve? Do they allow you to convert the signal coming in to component out? How do you select that inputs to view what's coming in? Is that a remote function? Again, I'm assuming no record ability for this input.

You've said you can't comment on how guide data will be linked to digital channels. My suggestion is to somehow be able to link a guide channel to the OTA material. Thus I can use the local channel guide already available but get the HD material (which is often the same). Please forward that request.

And finally, I'm still not clear on how you select what outputs you use. Is HD content always shown at 1080i, and the SD content is shown as listed in the display settings window, or is there a separate display setting for both HD and SD modes, or is the screen you showed the output that is sent no matter what, and the HD/SD button only toggles between S-video and component? 

Is it possible to have the receiver show HD content normally at 1080i, and then when you change to a SD channel output a 480p signal over the component outs without going into the menu and changing something?


----------



## dmodemd

Scott gave some speculation after his Baltimore visit that Dish would be providing guide data in the stream for local OTA channels and that you would map it by entering in call letters when you add your channel.

Presumably they can leverage all the guide data they provide for local markets they are already in. Potential issues:

- Need to provide guide data now for DMAs they may not be in (or maybe they won't)
- Need to provide guide data for subchannels
- Sometimes guide info is different on the digital channels than it is on the analog channels, so needs to be a digital specific info.
- Most sources of digital guide data today are very incomplete and not very accurate

Lee


----------



## Danny R

_Tahoerob - unfortunately, not that I'm aware of. There may be in the future, but the only way I've found to change from 1080i to 480p is through the menu display options._

If you have it set for 480p and turn to a 1080i HD show, the signal is downconverted to 480p on component video?


----------



## MikeHDTulsa

Mark thanks for the great review and my question is how do the girls look on bikini destinations when you pause the picture????? You know on the 508 the paused images look blurry if there are to many moving objects on the screen I just wandered if the pause works better in HD?


----------



## JMikeF

> Then we test for a few days to make sure the fix didn't break anything else.


 Uggh - regression testing. Know it well & hate it. Hope they've been able to automate some of it.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Bob - I'm really hoping that the release of the 921 will be sooner than later. I wish I could say that yes definitely the 921 will be out next week. But, I can't because I'm not the one that makes the decision. If the one bug gets squashed, then the other bugs are more minor annoyances than anything else and it could be ready to ship.

Danny R - Yes, you can watch local analog channels, but can't record them. I don't know about the input on the back, as I haven't tried it yet. I'll try to take a look at that this weekend - please PM me to remind me, though if you would. I can't talk about guide data details, but it's something along the lines of dmodemd's post. HD content is always shown at either 1080i, 720p OR 480p. SD content is always shown at 480i. I don't believe you can assign one HD output selection to one channel, and another one to another channel. This may be a possibility in the future, though. I'd suggest posting a REQ post asking for it.
And, if you are set to display 480p and tune to a 1080i show, yes the 1080i is downconverted to 480p.

MikeHDTulsa - :smoking: :dance:


----------



## b5lurker

Thanks for the great review Mark!

Have to figured out what the maximum recording amount for HD is yet? Just curious if you are able to get a bit more then the 20 hours or so that I have heard.

Any info on how the rest of Denver Dish people can get a hold of the 921?  

Steve


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Steve - I had just under 23 hours recorded at one point over the weekend when it filled up. As with SD, it'll vary based on what channel is being recorded, and what's showing on what channel. Video bit rates vary quite a bit on Dish HD channels.


----------



## BobMurdoch

The only guaranteed way is to storm Mark's house, ply him with alcohol and abscond with it while he is "sleeping it off".

:grin:


----------



## Danny R

_HD content is always shown at either 1080i, 720p OR 480p. SD content is always shown at 480i. ... And, if you are set to display 480p and tune to a 1080i show, yes the 1080i is downconverted to 480p._

So what you are saying is that the component outputs ALWAYS display at the resolution you set in the Display Settings. If its set for 1080i, then any channel gets upconverted. If its set for 480i, then every channel gets downconverted, etc and there is no way to have variable output based on the original source?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Danny, right now that's my understanding and what I've seen in my testing.


----------



## Clinton Fields

Mark, under the bad things about the unit, you left out the fact that there is no name based recording. Do you know if Dish is addressing that issue or are we left with the fact that when networks change their schedule and we are unaware, SOL for us.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Good point, Mr. Jedi. 

I'll add it to the review. I know of no definite plans to address this issue at this time (and frankly, if I did know about plans on this, I'd have to say exactly what I just said because of the NDA).


----------



## SLONGO

Mark,
Thanks for the very comprehensive review ! Just a PVR function question, please.
I too, have a 508 and have noticed that it's skip-back function from pause is not a frame skip like formerly, but now jumps back some 10 seconds or so.
Have you found this to be the case with the 921 ?

Thanks again,
Steve Longo


----------



## Mark Lamutt

SLONGO, when I was writing the review, I used the reverse frame advance several times (in order to get the best screenshot), and it looked like I was going back one frame at a time. But, I can't say absolutely for sure, because I wasn't specifically looking for that. I'll add it to the list of things to look at later on. Please PM me to remind me, if you would.


----------



## bhroam

Thanks for the review Mark, I'm drooling all over myself now =]

As for Name Based Recording, didn't we hear something in the Nov Tech Chat about how DN is looking into it now? My guess is that means we won't see it in the near future.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Believe me, I drooled all over myself all weekend using this box. 

Dish did say they were looking at named based recording during the last tech chat. That's all I know about it at this point.


----------



## Enigma

Mark,

Does the 921 have the same issue as the 6000 as far as when watching an OTA channel for a period of time, then hitting the guide button resulting in either an error message or an "aquiring sat signal" message for 2 minutes or so? That has been the thing with the 6000 which is most annoying.

Enigma


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Enigma,

[slaps head] :nono:
Can't believe I forgot to check for that! That's on my list to check tonight. I'll let you all know.


----------



## scooper

THank you Mark - for the comprehensive review...


----------



## dbdsac

I realize the 921's will be initially released to the retailers in limited quantities. Do we know which retailers will receive the first shipments? Will Dish be selling them directly?


----------



## clearblue_71

Hi All

First post here, so bear with me if I'm posting in the wrong area. 

First off, thanks Mark for your review. I'm sure there are lots of us out here who appreciate all the time you've dedicated to introducing everyone to the 921. 

I still have a couple questions though, and perhaps someone can help.

Once the 921 does get released, how does one go about getting it? Contact Dish Network directly? or is there a better place to go? Is there a waiting list somewhere?

Second, will I need to run 2 coax cables from the superdish outside to use the 921? If this is the case, what about my existing 501PVR which only needs a single coax? What's this about the new switch (44+) someone posted about earlier?

I hope I haven't just asked questions that have been asked/answered a 1000 times before!

Thanks much

Ryan


----------



## Danny R

There are a number of places you can get it. You can call Dish directly and they will refer you to a local installer. Likewise you can call the local retailers directly. Some big chain stores like Sears may or may not have it as well. Finally a number of internet retailers are also likely to carry the thing, such as DishDepot, etc.

The superdish generates 3 cables, one for each satellite position. These go into a Dishpro34 switch that feeds up to 4 receivers. Two of those cables go to your 921. One of them goes to your 501. Don't confuse the Superdish with the standard Dish500.

The purpose of a Dishpro44 switch is to gather 4 satellite positions and combine the signal and feed it to 4 receivers. Thus you can have a superdish pointing toward 110,119 and whichever 3rd satellite your model supports, and a second dish pointing to 61.5 or 148 on the sides.


----------



## clearblue_71

Thanks for the reply. This clears up a whole lot for me.. 

I'm getting upgraded from dish500 to superdish early next year to receive my local channels, so I should be OK there. 

Sounds like I'm going to need get out my grungy clothes start climbing around the crawl space to add the new cable.

Thanks again for your help


----------



## tm22721

Great review Mark.

I've had my order in with DishDepot since the first minute of pre-orders. It's been a long hard road for this puppy.


----------



## MikeHDTulsa

Mark, I don't think you need to worry about testing to see if you get the acquiring satellite signal when you go to guide after a OTA channel on the 921 because it stores its guide info on the hard drive and it has two satellite tuners that it could use to get guide info while you are on a OTA channel where the 6000 can not access the satellite while you are on a OTA channel.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

You're probably right, Mike. Very likely the acquiring satellite signal won't be a problem with the 921.


----------



## phaseshift

Mark Lamutt said:


> HD content is always shown at either 1080i, 720p OR 480p. SD content is always shown at 480i.


SD content is always 480i? Do you know if that's true on the DVI output as well?

I have one of the Samsung DLP rear projectors that have DVI, and a DVD player with DVI. I just ran a little test, switching the output resolution of the DVD player, and unless I'm doing something wrong, the Samsung _only_ accepts 720p on the DVI port.

The component inputs are odd as well: Component 1 accepts 480i & 480p but not HD signals, and Components 2 & 3 accept 1080i, 720p, 480p, but not 480i. There is no input that accepts all four formats. So if all SD is output at 480i, that means I'd have to switch inputs on the TV to switch from HD to SD.

Mark, is that right?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Let me be a little more specific with my reply - SD (480i) is by definition on the 921 only output via the svideo, composite video and RF ports. HD (480p, 720p, 1080i) is by definition on the 921 only output via the component video or DVI port (or possibly both simultaneously - still have to test that one). 

If you are watching SD material, but viewing output from the component cables or DVI port (ie the 921 is in HD mode, tuned to a SD channel), then the 921 upconverts the 480i SD channel to either 480p, 720p or 1080i depending on how you have the display settings set.

The reverse is also true - if you are watching a HD channel, but have the 921 in SD mode, then the 921 downconverts the HD channel (1080i or 720p) to 480i for output through the svideo, composite video or RF port.

Does that make it more clear?


----------



## A_Pac

Sorry if you already covered this but does picture in picture work?


----------



## Lee L

Another thing to check Mark, if you would. What happens when you record an OTA HD channel in regards to subchannels. Do you get to pick whether to record say subchannel 5-01, 5-02 or 5-03, then play that recording back later (of course, without the ability to see what was on the other subchannel) or does it record all subchannels, then let you pick which to view later?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

A Pac - picture in picture works well in standard definition mode. The hardware can't support doing it in high definition mode. However, high definition channels do display in the tv window in the upper right corner of the screens.

Lee L - each subchannel is considered a different "channel" to the 921 at this point I think. In Denver, there's only one station that I can receive that has more than one subchannel. If I record off of channel 17-1, I don't believe it also records the 17-2 stream, or vice versa. But I don't know that for certain. I'll add it to the list of things to verify.


----------



## Matt Stevens

Mark, exceptional review. Well done. Comments...

The inability to pass 720p as 720p and 1080i as 1080i without going into the menu and switching the output is a serious limitation. With a number of channels now doing 720p, some TV/Display manufacturers are going to start supporting 720p. Therefore the ultimate receiver would allow for native passthrough. Would you be able to pass the word along and let E* know this feature is wanted?

I'm curious about the Firewire function, even though it is not on yet. Once it is I am hoping that it can allow you to dump to D-VHS and watch a live or recorded program at the same time.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Matt, 

There's already a REQ (feature request) thread about the pass through output issue. Feel free to add your support to it if you like.

Why don't you post another REQ thread detailing what you'd like to see with the firewire fuction here in this forum. Be specific, as the Dish programmers will be reading it.

Thanks for the compliment. This review was a lot of work, but I loved every second of it.


----------



## Nick

This is great, *Mark*. The 921 forum and your "excellent review" were well worth the suspense -- and the wait. This forum is a timely and welcome addition to the DBSTalk forum categories lineup.

As *Clapple* said above, I am going to wait for the sw44 before I pop a grand for the 921, but I will definitely get it! HD on my new 811 & panny is fantastic, but getting used to not having PVR capability has been tough. I either miss part of an HD program, or I miss doing the little stuff like taking a leak, fixing a snack, taking a call, taking a leak. taking a smoke (outside), answering a knock on the door and - did I say - taking a leak! :grin:

HD = Happy Days!


----------



## TowJumper

Wonderful Review!

Thank you Mark for your time away from the 921 to write this up.


----------



## kls

Sweet review - thanks Mark. I've read lots of posts about the front popping off so you can add another harddrive. I'm guessing it doesn't since you didn't mention it, but thought I'd ask. Does it still have the smaller door on the front with usb/mic connections like the 721?


----------



## krt

Mark, 

Thanks for writing this review. I do have a few questions.

1. Does the 921 have a separate memory for HD and SD aspect ratios, similar to the 6000? i.e. If one sets a HD channel to normal mode, and a SD channel to stretch mode, all HD and SD channels automatically retain their respective settings. Also, does the 921 remote have a way to select a discrete aspect ratio? Or does one have to cycle though them using the * key like the 6000?

2. Are there plans to add the OTA signal strength indicator into the channel banner of the 921, like the 6000? 

3. Do the icons for pause, ff, rew, etc. automatically go away after 1-2 seconds of a remote button press, like many DVD players? Or do these icons stay on the screen until play is pressed, like the 50x PVRs?

4. Is there a way to lock the receiver - channels locked, PPV locked, as well as, at the same time not have to enter passwords to erase "protected recorded" events? The 50x PVRs do not allow this. 


Thanks again.


----------



## peterd

Mark, 

Thanks for the review. Here are my questions.

1. (The biggie!) You mentioned a workaround for OTA timers by setting to another listing using the guide, then editing the channel #. When you do that, is the program info preserved? (In other words - if I set a timer to record CSI from an LIL SD feed, then edited the channel # to my OTA (HD) channel for the same station will "CSI" appear in the list of recordings?)

2.Is one of the Closed Captioning options "CC only when muted?"

3. Have you found (or has Dish confirmed) a limit to the # of timers set at once?

Thanks,
Peter


----------



## jcord51

Very nice review. Too bad about the remote control only using UHF. I have an MX-500 which I truely love. I don't see why they made the unit only work with UHF. Did they provide you with two remotes?


----------



## Allen Noland

Can you tell if recording a Fox 480p widescreen program takes less space than a cbs 1080i or abc 720p recording?

btw, great review. Hopefully I'll have mine soon. It will look good next to my 721.


----------



## DanB33

Mark,
Thanks for the review. 
As for the telephone line with multiple eceivers. I have a single to dual phoneplug that is designed to put in a phone wall jack. But if you put it in the receivers phonejack, you now have two phonejacks on the receiver. You then just run short phone cords between machines.
I believe I got it at Radio Shack, but it may be available where phone instulation accessories are sold.

James Daniel Bishop


----------



## Evil Capserian

I would love a 921 under my Christmas Tree. Maybe Santa Charlie will bring me one this year. Or should I not hold my breath?


----------



## Bill R

jcord51 said:


> Too bad about the remote control only using UHF. I have an MX-500 which I truely love. I don't see why they made the unit only work with UHF.


I can't understand that myself. As popular as IR universal learning remotes are I would think that a high end receiver like the 921 would come with a remote that does both IR and UHF. The 921 receiver can use the (older) IR remotes but the new "UHF Pro" remotes just don't send IR.


----------



## Jetlag

Mark, you realize of course that you will now be spending all of your time answering our questions instead of enjoying your new 921! :lol: 

BTW, :crying: :crying: :crying: I'm not at all envious :crying: :crying: :crying:


----------



## tnsprin

Mark,
Great review.

Is "THE BUG" so bad that we should be quiet and wait, or should we be pressing Dish to start releasing the 921's ASAP.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

kls said:


> Sweet review - thanks Mark. I've read lots of posts about the front popping off so you can add another harddrive. I'm guessing it doesn't since you didn't mention it, but thought I'd ask. Does it still have the smaller door on the front with usb/mic connections like the 721?


There is a panel on the front of the 921, but it doesn't appear to open easily, and I'm not about to try to force it open and end up breaking it.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

krt said:


> Mark,
> 
> Thanks for writing this review. I do have a few questions.
> 
> 1. Does the 921 have a separate memory for HD and SD aspect ratios, similar to the 6000? i.e. If one sets a HD channel to normal mode, and a SD channel to stretch mode, all HD and SD channels automatically retain their respective settings. Also, does the 921 remote have a way to select a discrete aspect ratio? Or does one have to cycle though them using the * key like the 6000?
> 
> 2. Are there plans to add the OTA signal strength indicator into the channel banner of the 921, like the 6000?
> 
> 3. Do the icons for pause, ff, rew, etc. automatically go away after 1-2 seconds of a remote button press, like many DVD players? Or do these icons stay on the screen until play is pressed, like the 50x PVRs?
> 
> 4. Is there a way to lock the receiver - channels locked, PPV locked, as well as, at the same time not have to enter passwords to erase "protected recorded" events? The 50x PVRs do not allow this.


1. I'm going to do some more testing with this to see if I can get the 921 to retain the separate settings. That's on the list for this weekend.

2. This falls under terms of the NDA, so I can't discuss it. Personally, I hope so, but can't say more than that.

3. Most of them stay on the screen, but the frame advance icons fade away after a second or two.

4. Not excactly clear about what you're asking. Please give me an example of what you want to do, and I'll try it.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

peterd said:


> Mark,
> 
> Thanks for the review. Here are my questions.
> 
> 1. (The biggie!) You mentioned a workaround for OTA timers by setting to another listing using the guide, then editing the channel #. When you do that, is the program info preserved? (In other words - if I set a timer to record CSI from an LIL SD feed, then edited the channel # to my OTA (HD) channel for the same station will "CSI" appear in the list of recordings?)
> 
> 2.Is one of the Closed Captioning options "CC only when muted?"
> 
> 3. Have you found (or has Dish confirmed) a limit to the # of timers set at once?
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter


Peter, I'll add all three of your questions to my testing list for the weekend. I've gotton #1 to work a couple of times, but am not comfortable enough to say Yes, it will work. #2 and #3 I don't yet know.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

jcord51 said:


> Very nice review. Too bad about the remote control only using UHF. I have an MX-500 which I truely love. I don't see why they made the unit only work with UHF. Did they provide you with two remotes?


If you have one of the other Dish remotes, you can use it to teach your MX500 most of the IR codes. My plan is to provide a complete IR code database for all 921 functions for all address in the philips pronto format. This is going to take me some time to put together, but I think it will be a big help to alot of people. If you have the IR Clone utility, you'll be able to use the codes I provide.

I already have 3 other dish remotes, and have borrowed a 721 remote to use temporarily to get the IR codes from the PIP functions.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

A_Noland said:


> Can you tell if recording a Fox 480p widescreen program takes less space than a cbs 1080i or abc 720p recording?
> 
> btw, great review. Hopefully I'll have mine soon. It will look good next to my 721.


No, I can't really tell, but I suspect that it will because of the way 8VSB OTA signals are sent. I know that my hipix cards record exactly the same size recording for a 480p broadcast vs a 1080i broadcast. I'll add it to my testing list this weekend, though and see.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Jetlag said:


> Mark, you realize of course that you will now be spending all of your time answering our questions instead of enjoying your new 921! :lol:
> 
> BTW, :crying: :crying: :crying: I'm not at all envious :crying: :crying: :crying:


I volunteered for this job, even Tim! Good thing I love it! And you wouldn't believe how much hand in hand beta testing and review writing go...it's a great way to root out bugs when trying every function you can think of to review.

Fortunately, the 921 records in the background so I can still play with it!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

tnsprin said:


> Mark,
> Great review.
> 
> Is "THE BUG" so bad that we should be quiet and wait, or should we be pressing Dish to start releasing the 921's ASAP.


The BUG is being fixed as I type this, so it most likely will be a moot point. Stand by...


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Note: I have corrected an error on Page 3 of the review. The HD pause buffer is 120 minutes long, not 10 minutes long as I originally posted.


----------



## fr8flyr

Thanks Mark, Great review.

Earl


----------



## JoeQ

Mark Lamutt said:


> Steve - I had just under 23 hours recorded at one point over the weekend when it filled up. As with SD, it'll vary based on what channel is being recorded, and what's showing on what channel. Video bit rates vary quite a bit on Dish HD channels.


Mark a bit more clarification please on a few items.
1) For HD broadcasts, it is roughly 8 GB/hour so 23 hours = 184 GB.
So, I assume this is using a 200 GB drive?

2) Any idea what the USB port is for?
Is it USB 1.1 or 2.?

3) I currently use an SW21 to receive 110,119 and 61.5. One goes to my 6000 the other to my 5000.

Can I still use that SW21 output for the 921?

Will the 921 work if you only hook up 1 of the inputs?
If not, is this to be addressed in a future release?
Not a facetious question. For me, being able to record ONE thing while watching a pre-recorded item is all I really need. Hate the thought of more dishes/lnbs/cables to be able to use a second receiver.

4) Is the OSD still as slow to Navigate as the 6000?

5) How far ahead is the program guide? You know, go past 3 hours on the OSD and you get the dreaded 'PLEASE WAIT'.

6) When you do get the "Please Wait" message, is it any faster than on the 6000 in downloaing the info"

7) If you press the button on the program guide to get info on a show, the 6000 ( and my 5000) always takes forever. Is this any quicker on the 921?

Thanks for a great review.


----------



## phaseshift

Matt Stevens said:


> With a number of channels now doing 720p, some TV/Display manufacturers are going to start supporting 720p.


Agreed. In fact, most fixed-pixel displays, such as my DLP, are 720p native.

I've had the set for a couple of months, and I wanted to wait for the 921, so I don't currently have an HD receiver from Dish. I temporarily signed up with Cablevision to get some limited HD until I can get my hands on a 921.

I get best results when I set the output of the Motorola cable box to the resolution of the transmission. If it's CBS, NBC, HBO or Showtime, setting the cable box to 1080i and letting the TV handle the conversion with its Faroujda chipset creates a noticable sharper picture than setting the cable box at the TV's native 720p.

And obviously, ABC and ESPN-HD look better at 720p, since that's how they're transmitted AND its the same as the TV's native resolution.

I imagine I'll have to manually change the 921 unless Dish revises this function.


----------



## phaseshift

Mark Lamutt said:


> If you are watching SD material, but viewing output from the component cables or DVI port (ie the 921 is in HD mode, tuned to a SD channel), then the 921 upconverts the 480i SD channel to either 480p, 720p or 1080i depending on how you have the display settings set.


Thank you, Mark. I was hoping you'd say that. :joy:


----------



## Allen Noland

Mark, 

How does the 921 handle recording Digital OTA if the single is marginal. One of the stations here in Tulsa is broadcasting with a STA at 1/3rd power. I only get a 65-75 signal strength on my 6000 and I notices some picture freezes and pixels every now and then. I know back in the early days of the 501 if you lost signal do to rain fade it would lock it up. Does the 921 handle signal fade Ok.

And a follow up to the recording space. 2 of the stations in tulsa run a SD (480i) sub channel? Can you determin the space required to record from subs.

And finally, if the HD buffer is 2 hours, how long is the SD pause buffer?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

JoeQ said:


> Mark a bit more clarification please on a few items.
> 1) For HD broadcasts, it is roughly 8 GB/hour so 23 hours = 184 GB.
> So, I assume this is using a 200 GB drive?
> 
> 2) Any idea what the USB port is for?
> Is it USB 1.1 or 2.?
> 
> 3) I currently use an SW21 to receive 110,119 and 61.5. One goes to my 6000 the other to my 5000.
> 
> Can I still use that SW21 output for the 921?
> 
> Will the 921 work if you only hook up 1 of the inputs?
> If not, is this to be addressed in a future release?
> Not a facetious question. For me, being able to record ONE thing while watching a pre-recorded item is all I really need. Hate the thought of more dishes/lnbs/cables to be able to use a second receiver.
> 
> 4) Is the OSD still as slow to Navigate as the 6000?
> 
> 5) How far ahead is the program guide? You know, go past 3 hours on the OSD and you get the dreaded 'PLEASE WAIT'.
> 
> 6) When you do get the "Please Wait" message, is it any faster than on the 6000 in downloaing the info"
> 
> 7) If you press the button on the program guide to get info on a show, the 6000 ( and my 5000) always takes forever. Is this any quicker on the 921?


1. The 921 has a 250 GB hard drive. Keep in mind that with the 120 minute buffer, that's somewhere between 16 and 20 GB reserved space for it, then the guide data takes up space, and the Linux OS takes up space. The recording time will vary based on what HD source is being recorded as well. Next week sometime I'll try to fill up the hard drive with just OTA recording and see how much will fit.

2. I have no idea about the USB port. But, even if I did, I probably couldn't say because of the NDA.

3. Yes, you should be able to use that switch setup, but you MUST have both satellite tuners plugged in. I have no information about that ever changing.

4. Everything about this unit is fast, fast, fast. The guide is the fastest thing I've ever scrolled through, as is the osd - menus and the like. The 921 literally blows the 6000 out of the water.

5. Program guide goes out almost 9 days, just like the other Dish PVR receivers.

6. No Please Wait messages because the guide is stored on the hard drive locally. I suppose if you let the guide get out of data, then it would force a Please Wait to get an update. But I haven't run into that.

7. Much faster.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

A_Noland said:


> Mark,
> 
> How does the 921 handle recording Digital OTA if the single is marginal. One of the stations here in Tulsa is broadcasting with a STA at 1/3rd power. I only get a 65-75 signal strength on my 6000 and I notices some picture freezes and pixels every now and then. I know back in the early days of the 501 if you lost signal do to rain fade it would lock it up. Does the 921 handle signal fade Ok.
> 
> And a follow up to the recording space. 2 of the stations in tulsa run a SD (480i) sub channel? Can you determin the space required to record from subs.
> 
> And finally, if the HD buffer is 2 hours, how long is the SD pause buffer?


I'll get back to you next week in answer to your first question.

I have no idea about signal fade due to the weather. I've only had the 921 since Friday, and haven't lost signal in that time due to weather.

I'll add your other questions to the weekend list. Don't know the answers yet.


----------



## EdV

Mark,

Regarding the missing guide info for OTA. The 921 has inherited the same limitation that's in the 6000/811. However, If you go to the local stations setup screen and manually add an analog station, it allows you to assign it to abc, cbs or nbc, and the guide will show the correct programming info for the prime time shows. What's strange is that if you manually add a digital station, it doesn't give you that option.

That said, for those of us that don't subscribe to E* locals, it could provide a workaround. For each digital OTA local, add an analog local with the same channel number (even if you can't receive it) and give it a name that corresponds with the network name. It will then appear in the guide colored grey, followed by the digital station in yellow. So for the three major networks, you can select the fake analog channel from the prime time guide to create a timer and then edit the timer's channel number to the digital channel. Might even be able to set up three macro keys on a programmable remote (one for each network) to create the timer and change the channel setting automatically.

I'm sure that in the long run, E* plans to allow you to map a local ota station to your local lil station number (even if you don't subscribe to locals). This would provide the most accurate guide data. But in the short run, I don't know what's so difficult about allowing you to assign one of the three networks to a digital local like they do for the analog locals.

The only thing I don't know is whether the prime time guide data is accurate for your time zone based on the zip code from the setup screen. It's correct for me in the East.


----------



## Mike Russell

Mark, this might help you on the phone line deal. I have a 721,501 and a 6000 all hooked to the same tv. I bought a wireless phone jack at Lowes (GE I believe) and I have it plugged in near my receivers. I just bought a little cheap plugin with 3 outlets and I plugged in 3 cords,1 to each receiver and all 3 caller-id's work great. Mike


----------



## Bradtothebone

Mark, all great info - thanks so much!

Please clarify one thing for those of us with thick heads: My understanding is that the 921 will ACCEPT IR commands, but that the supplied remote doesn't GENERATE them. Is that correct? Are all the IR codes (with the exception of DVR functions) the same as for "blue button" remotes? Thanks for your help.

Brad


----------



## BobMurdoch

Mark Lamutt said:


> Note: I have corrected an error on Page 3 of the review. The HD pause buffer is 120 minutes long, not 10 minutes long as I originally posted.


Whew. That one made me nervous for a sec. I often pause a show for up toa half hour or more to build up a buffer to skip commercials while I eat dinner, visit the "library", or watch another show while keeping the PIP window open.

10 minutes would hae been nowhere near enough time......


----------



## Slordak

Regarding the statement about the 921 absolutely having to have two separate satellite feeds to function, surely there must be some kind of mistake? Has anyone explicitly asked Dish Network about this? Why would this be designed like this?

Undoubtedly there are many individuals who have no problem using the 921 in a limited single-feed mode (at least temporarily). Going onto the roof to install a new DP34 or DP44 and then run additional wiring through the basement, up through the walls, and to the receiver is not exactly a task that most folks look forward to (myself included), especially in winter. It seems as if the receiver should be able to still be used with only a single feed (plus the over the air antenna, if desired).

Realistically, there's no reason why it shouldn't support this, unless the software specifically bars it and won't function if only one feed is hooked up. On existing receivers, if one runs a "Check Switch" and it partially fails, one can still use the satellites and switch modes which were found to operate correctly. One would expect the 921 to be much the same; have any beta testers tested it to see what happens if the 921 has only one feed hooked up and one then re-runs the input detection?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Bradtothebone said:


> Mark, all great info - thanks so much!
> 
> Please clarify one thing for those of us with thick heads: My understanding is that the 921 will ACCEPT IR commands, but that the supplied remote doesn't GENERATE them. Is that correct? Are all the IR codes (with the exception of DVR functions) the same as for "blue button" remotes? Thanks for your help.
> 
> Brad


All of that is correct. The DVR functions are also the same IR commands as the the Dish platinum remotes. And the PIP fuctions are the same as on the Dish 721 remote.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Slordak said:


> Regarding the statement about the 921 absolutely having to have two separate satellite feeds to function, surely there must be some kind of mistake? Has anyone explicitly asked Dish Network about this? Why would this be designed like this?
> 
> Undoubtedly there are many individuals who have no problem using the 921 in a limited single-feed mode (at least temporarily). Going onto the roof to install a new DP34 or DP44 and then run additional wiring through the basement, up through the walls, and to the receiver is not exactly a task that most folks look forward to (myself included), especially in winter. It seems as if the receiver should be able to still be used with only a single feed (plus the over the air antenna, if desired).
> 
> Realistically, there's no reason why it shouldn't support this, unless the software specifically bars it and won't function if only one feed is hooked up. On existing receivers, if one runs a "Check Switch" and it partially fails, one can still use the satellites and switch modes which were found to operate correctly. One would expect the 921 to be much the same; have any beta testers tested it to see what happens if the 921 has only one feed hooked up and one then re-runs the input detection?


Added to the list for this weekend's testing session (boy, it's starting to get long too!)


----------



## BarryO

Slordak said:


> Regarding the statement about the 921 absolutely having to have two separate satellite feeds to function, surely there must be some kind of mistake? Has anyone explicitly asked Dish Network about this? Why would this be designed like this?


This was covered in the last Tech Chat. They dropped support for just one feed because they ran into too many "corner cases" to deal with (e.g., what happens if the user attempts to do this particular thing that requires two feeds, etc.). It must have been consuming alot of debug time, for something they judged to be relatively low priority.



> Undoubtedly there are many individuals who have no problem using the 921 in a limited single-feed mode (at least temporarily). Going onto the roof to install a new DP34 or DP44 and then run additional wiring through the basement, up through the walls, and to the receiver is not exactly a task that most folks look forward to (myself included), especially in winter. It seems as if the receiver should be able to still be used with only a single feed (plus the over the air antenna, if desired).


The DP44+ is supposed to solve the single-cable issue when it comes out.

I'm glad that, when the remodelers ripped out most of the drywall fom my place this summer, I ran 4 cables from the outside to the distribution panel in the basement, and 4 cables from the panel to the TV room.


----------



## clifface

Hi everybody. Great info and great review. Here's my question. I'm setup for an install this Saturday for a 4 room system with a 811. This includes a 1 year contract and after the year I give the equipment back or continue the service. If I were to buy the 921 would I be able to add it to my services and remove the 811? Would my dish they are bringing be the correct one for the 921? I'm thinking maybe I should just wait until the 921 is out and then order but I'm not sure. Thanks


----------



## bytre

Thanks for the great overview of the 921, Mark. Here's a question for you - what happens if the satellites on the two inputs are different? The switch summary screen you posted shows seperate summaries for the two inputs. Can you run a dish 500 into one and a 61.5 or 148 into the other? In my case, I have one input with 61.5/110/119/148 and one with 110/119/148, and just curious if that'd be compatible.

Second question - have you opened your box up yet?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

clifface said:


> Hi everybody. Great info and great review. Here's my question. I'm setup for an install this Saturday for a 4 room system with a 811. This includes a 1 year contract and after the year I give the equipment back or continue the service. If I were to buy the 921 would I be able to add it to my services and remove the 811? Would my dish they are bringing be the correct one for the 921? I'm thinking maybe I should just wait until the 921 is out and then order but I'm not sure. Thanks


clifface, please ask your question in the General Dish Network PVR forum, located here: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48


----------



## EdV

Mark,

Can you test the 921 to see if when you add a local digital channel it doesn't allow you to assign it to ABC/CBS/NBC. If it doesn't, I'll post a feature request for it in the other forum.

TIA


----------



## Mark Lamutt

bytre said:


> Thanks for the great overview of the 921, Mark. Here's a question for you - what happens if the satellites on the two inputs are different? The switch summary screen you posted shows seperate summaries for the two inputs. Can you run a dish 500 into one and a 61.5 or 148 into the other? In my case, I have one input with 61.5/110/119/148 and one with 110/119/148, and just curious if that'd be compatible.
> 
> Second question - have you opened your box up yet?


bytre, I have absolutely no idea, and have no way of testing it. And, no I haven't opened the box up, and really have no plans to do so...gotta keep that warranty coverage!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

EdV said:


> Mark,
> 
> Can you test the 921 to see if when you add a local digital channel it doesn't allow you to assign it to ABC/CBS/NBC. If it doesn't, I'll post a feature request for it in the other forum.
> 
> TIA


I've manually added DTV channels in my testing, and don't remember an option to assign it to one of the networks. I'll check again this weekend, though.


----------



## Jerry G

Mark Lamutt said:


> All of that is correct. The DVR functions are also the same IR commands as the the Dish platinum remotes. And the PIP fuctions are the same as on the Dish 721 remote.


Just to clarify, are you saying that if I want to program my Home Theater Master 500 with IR codes that would work on the 921, I could use my 6000 remote to do the basics (which do work on my 811), a 721 remote for the IR codes for PIP, and a platinum remote to get the IR codes for DVR functions? The 721 remote's DVR IR codes won't work on the 921?

Thanks.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Jerry G said:


> Just to clarify, are you saying that if I want to program my Home Theater Master 500 with IR codes that would work on the 921, I could use my 6000 remote to do the basics (which do work on my 811), a 721 remote for the IR codes for PIP, and a platinum remote to get the IR codes for DVR functions? The 721 remote's DVR IR codes won't work on the 921?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, yes, yes, no. 

In more detail, all Dish Network IR codes are the same, except for the dishplayer. So, the 721 remote's DVR IR codes are exactly the same as the 5xx platinum remote's DVR IR codes. The 721 remote is the only other Dish Network remote that I'm aware of that has the PIP buttons on it.


----------



## Jerry G

Mark Lamutt said:


> Yes, yes, yes, no.
> 
> In more detail, all Dish Network IR codes are the same, except for the dishplayer. So, the 721 remote's DVR IR codes are exactly the same as the 5xx platinum remote's DVR IR codes. The 721 remote is the only other Dish Network remote that I'm aware of that has the PIP buttons on it.


My brain may be in limbo today, but I'm still a bit confused. If the 721 DVR codes are the same as the 5xx platinum DVR codes, wouldn't a 721 remote have everything that I need for DVR and PIP IR control of the 921 and a 5xx platinum remote wouldn't be needed? I can get the HD/SD code from the 6000 remote.


----------



## flyingbryan

Great review, thanks for the work you put in on it.

Question about the upcoming firewire on the 921, (IEEE 1394)
Have you heard if it will work (when it is activated) on my Mitsubishi TV as a input rather than using the DVI plug that Mitsubishi has not put on the 2003 and before TV's.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Jerry G said:


> My brain may be in limbo today, but I'm still a bit confused. If the 721 DVR codes are the same as the 5xx platinum DVR codes, wouldn't a 721 remote have everything that I need for DVR and PIP IR control of the 921 and a 5xx platinum remote wouldn't be needed? I can get the HD/SD code from the 6000 remote.


Jerry, I apologize for the confusion. If you have a 721 remote, you will not need a 5xx platinum remote for the IR codes. The 721 remote will provide you with everything you need, except for the HD/SD code, which you can get from the 6000 remote.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

flyingbryan said:


> Great review, thanks for the work you put in on it.
> 
> Question about the upcoming firewire on the 921, (IEEE 1394)
> Have you heard if it will work (when it is activated) on my Mitsubishi TV as a input rather than using the DVI plug that Mitsubishi has not put on the 2003 and before TV's.


flyingbrian, I have no idea at all, and don't really know of anyway to know until the firewire is activated.


----------



## Jerry G

Mark Lamutt said:


> Jerry, I apologize for the confusion. If you have a 721 remote, you will not need a 5xx platinum remote for the IR codes. The 721 remote will provide you with everything you need, except for the HD/SD code, which you can get from the 6000 remote.


Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll just order a 721 remote when I get the 921 and use that to program my universal remote.


----------



## n0qcu

Actually if the 721 remote has a TV/Video button, its the exact same code for SD/HD.


----------



## Jerry G

n0qcu said:


> Actually if the 721 remote has a TV/Video button, its the exact same code for SD/HD.


Looking at the picture of the remote in the 721 brochure, there is a TV/Video button and I suspect you're correct in that it would function as the HD/SD button does (it does so on one of my 5000 remotes).

There is a button on the 921 remote which I believe is labelled "R" that isn't on other remotes. Dish tech support tells me that's for a recovery function related to the internal smart card. It may be the only button not present on other IR capable remotes, but it may be one that isn't used often.


----------



## tahoerob

Jerry G said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll just order a 721 remote when I get the 921 and use that to program my universal remote.


I have seen them for sale on ebay.com


----------



## kingbiged

The menu's and screen shots look just like the 721 software! Is this another Linux box?


----------



## Doody

bummer there's no RS232 control.

it'd be WAY cool if they could do an IR code to choose among the 4 output modes.

it'd be interesting if they could add a mode "Native" that simply spat out whatever the sat was feeding it.

*GREAT REVIEW*! thank you, sir! please keep up the good work and i'll eagerly be revisiting this thread!

doody.


----------



## DonLandis

Mark- Considering Doody's concern and that I was told one use for the USB port would be a keyboard connection, wouldn't this USB also be a way (absent the Old RS232)to download the codes he referenced as well? 

Personally, I am interested in the capability to swap hard drives as I just know we all will be wanting more capacity. I hope Dish is listening in that the development team will address the need to add HD capacity in the near future. The discussion on how should be left to another thread but just wanted to get the message out.


----------



## Kagato

Guide Data: It was either a Tech Chat or a Q&A on DBS, but I clearly recall Dish Techs stating that they asked Tribune get channel and subchannel data for the guide in leu of PSIP data. So I'm guessing getting a local guide will depend on Tribune getting the data (the more providers that want it the quicker it will happen), how quickly your local station provides the data, and how long it will take dish to get the data into their EPG system. 

So anyone want to bet on which will come first: Dishwire or Local EPG?

Still, nice to see Dish making head way. I'm on the fence as the 921 goes. Dish has some more things to Fix, I'm jaded by the 721 firmware, and I think Dish will put a fire under DirecTV and Cable to get more Firewire enabled STBs out.


----------



## Sonnie Parker

Thanks Mark! Excellent review and great info on the 921.

Great forum addition as well.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Jerry G said:


> There is a button on the 921 remote which I believe is labelled "R" that isn't on other remotes. Dish tech support tells me that's for a recovery function related to the internal smart card. It may be the only button not present on other IR capable remotes, but it may be one that isn't used often.


I've gotton the explanation on what the green R button does on the remote, and I'll probably post it later sometime, but it's not something to worry about - I seriously doubt anyone who's reading this review would ever need to use it.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

n0qcu said:


> Actually if the 721 remote has a TV/Video button, its the exact same code for SD/HD.


Thanks, Kevin. I wasn't aware of that.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

kingbiged said:


> The menu's and screen shots look just like the 721 software! Is this another Linux box?


Yes, it's a linux box. From what Scott and others have told me, the interface is just about identical looking to the 721.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Kagato said:


> Guide Data: It was either a Tech Chat or a Q&A on DBS, but I clearly recall Dish Techs stating that they asked Tribune get channel and subchannel data for the guide in leu of PSIP data. So I'm guessing getting a local guide will depend on Tribune getting the data (the more providers that want it the quicker it will happen), how quickly your local station provides the data, and how long it will take dish to get the data into their EPG system.
> 
> So anyone want to bet on which will come first: Dishwire or Local EPG?


Kagato, I believe that is very close to Dish's plan for local channel guide data.

My bet is DishWire will be before local guide data.


----------



## krt

4. Is there a way to lock the receiver - channels locked, PPV locked, as well as, at the same time not have to enter passwords to erase "protected recorded" events? The 50x PVRs do not allow this.



Mark Lamutt said:


> 4. Not excactly clear about what you're asking. Please give me an example of what you want to do, and I'll try it.


Thanks again for the quick response to my questions.

I would like to go into the locks menu, lock PPVs, and lock the system. Then, I would like to record something, and protect this recording. Then I would like to be able to delete this protected recording without inputting the PIN.

On the PVR 5xx series, if the receiver is locked, the system always prompts for the PIN if someone attempts to delete a protected recording. I understand that the workaround is not to protect recordings, or not to lock the receiver. However, if recordings are not protected, the receiver could automatically erase recorded events, when the hard drive gets full.

Thanks again.


----------



## bytre

Send me the box, I'll try the satellite test.



Mark Lamutt said:


> bytre, I have absolutely no idea, and have no way of testing it. And, no I haven't opened the box up, and really have no plans to do so...gotta keep that warranty coverage!


Question on the USB port - have you tried plugging a USB HD in to see if the 921 reacts?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

> Thanks again for the quick response to my questions.
> 
> I would like to go into the locks menu, lock PPVs, and lock the system. Then, I would like to record something, and protect this recording. Then I would like to be able to delete this protected recording without inputting the PIN.
> 
> On the PVR 5xx series, if the receiver is locked, the system always prompts for the PIN if someone attempts to delete a protected recording. I understand that the workaround is not to protect recordings, or not to lock the receiver. However, if recordings are not protected, the receiver could automatically erase recorded events, when the hard drive gets full.
> 
> Thanks again.


Ok, got it. Added to the list for the weekend.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

bytre said:


> Send me the box, I'll try the satellite test.
> 
> Question on the USB port - have you tried plugging a USB HD in to see if the 921 reacts?


:lol: ah, I think NOT!

I don't have a USB hard drive to try it with. Send me one, and I'll plug it in and tell you what happens.


----------



## bytre

Mark Lamutt said:


> :lol: ah, I think NOT!
> 
> I don't have a USB hard drive to try it with. Send me one, and I'll plug it in and tell you what happens.


PM me an address and I will.


----------



## Rodney

Mark,

Thanks for an excellent review. I read that you connected the 921 via the component cables because your set does not have DVI. I may have missed it but did the 921 come with a DVI-I cable?


----------



## tm22721

What we really need is NOT more built in HD capacity but a 1 Gbps Ethernet port to expand to networked storage and to stream video out to networked clients.

At its price point, the 921 needs to turn into a media server. It only needs to be a scalable set of tuners and a guide/scheduler engine.

Dish adds very ltittle value beyond that. This unit costs too much to just be a standalone 'DVR'.

End of rant.


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## dinkster

I just wanted to thank Mark for the very comprehensive review of the 921. Wonderful stuff that has answered so many of my questions concerning this unit. I have enjoyed following this thread.


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## Slordak

Yes. A big thank you to Mark for taking time out to post this valuable information and continue to research the quirks and details of the 921 receiver!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Rodney said:


> Mark,
> 
> Thanks for an excellent review. I read that you connected the 921 via the component cables because your set does not have DVI. I may have missed it but did the 921 come with a DVI-I cable?


I don't know Rodney. The 921 that I picked up wasn't boxed, so I have no idea what will be in the box when it ships. I would guess that it won't come with a DVI cable, only because the 811s aren't shipping with one.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

dinkster, Slordak and everyone else that has emailed and PM'd me -

*You're Welcome! *


----------



## Jetlag

bytre said:


> Question on the USB port - have you tried plugging a USB HD in to see if the 921 reacts?


I thought the USB port was for an external keyboard??? No?


----------



## Danny R

Does the 921 require Dishpro switches? Just wondering if I can remove my 501 and 301 and connect those two cables to the 921 that will replace both. I'm pretty sure both were running off of legacy switches currently.


----------



## jackienopay

Great review, it’s ridiculous how excited I am getting about a silly piece of consumer electronics, but I guess I can’t control that.

My questions:

1.	Does the favorite list have more storage than the 6000?
2.	Are you able to view and record OTA content (including HD) without a satellite input, or with a “no signal detected?”
3.	Is there any type of picture adjusting for the HD feed with regard to up, down, left, right?
4.	Are you able to force an OTA HD channel even if it is not currently broadcasting?

Thanks for taking the time to do this for us!

-Jackie


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Danny R said:


> Does the 921 require Dishpro switches? Just wondering if I can remove my 501 and 301 and connect those two cables to the 921 that will replace both. I'm pretty sure both were running off of legacy switches currently.


The 921 does not require DishPro equipment, so the answer is yes, you could replace both of your receivers with the 921.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

jackienopay said:


> Great review, it's ridiculous how excited I am getting about a silly piece of consumer electronics, but I guess I can't control that.
> 
> My questions:
> 
> 1.	Does the favorite list have more storage than the 6000?
> 2.	Are you able to view and record OTA content (including HD) without a satellite input, or with a "no signal detected?"
> 3.	Is there any type of picture adjusting for the HD feed with regard to up, down, left, right?
> 4.	Are you able to force an OTA HD channel even if it is not currently broadcasting?
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to do this for us!


1. I never used the favorites on the 6000, so I don't know what the limitation was there, but I'll add this to this weekend's testing.

2. Added to this weekend's testing - will let you know.

3. Yes, all of the above. It's on the page 2 preferences screen I believe.

4. Not sure what you're asking about with #4. Please clarify.


----------



## jackienopay

Mark Lamutt said:


> 4. Not sure what you're asking about with #4. Please clarify.


Thanks for replying: With the 6000, it will not let me store an OTA HD channel that is not currently broadcasting (i.e. I go to the NAB website and see that fox has a digital channel on channel 48, I try to add channel 48 in the 6000 as a digital channel, but it won't let me because fox has no signal strength).

It might sound strange, but there are times of the day where I can receive more HDTV than others, and when one of my locals stops broadcasting, the channel erases.

Thanks


----------



## mwgiii

Mark,

Great review.

Do you know if I will need a DVI-A, DVI-D, or a DVI-I cable?


----------



## Danny R

mwgiii said:


> Do you know if I will need a DVI-A, DVI-D, or a DVI-I cable?


We covered this in another thread. The 921 has a DVI-I port.


----------



## santellavision

Danny,

Could you please post that link. If that's true, then the 921 is the first piece of HT gear that uses DVI-I. Every other currently available DVI equipped unit, (Displays, DVD players, Sat etc.) all are only using DVD-D single channel.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

jackienopay said:


> Thanks for replying: With the 6000, it will not let me store an OTA HD channel that is not currently broadcasting (i.e. I go to the NAB website and see that fox has a digital channel on channel 48, I try to add channel 48 in the 6000 as a digital channel, but it won't let me because fox has no signal strength).
> 
> It might sound strange, but there are times of the day where I can receive more HDTV than others, and when one of my locals stops broadcasting, the channel erases.
> 
> Thanks


Ah, ok. Not strange at all - we deal with the same kinds of problems in Denver, even though our stations are broadcasting 24x7.

I hopefully will be able to answer your question next week a bug is fixed and I'm not limited by the NDA I'm under.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

santellavision said:


> Danny,
> 
> Could you please post that link. If that's true, then the 921 is the first piece of HT gear that uses DVI-I. Every other currently available DVI equipped unit, (Displays, DVD players, Sat etc.) all are only using DVD-D single channel.


Ernie,

The link provided in the first post in this thread to the PDF specsheet of the 921 says that the DVI port is indeed DVI-I.


----------



## Cyclone

If you look at the pin out on the DVI-I connector you'll see the analog pins. Also the stenciling under the DVI port says "DVI/RGB". I'm hoping we'll be able to use a little DVI-I to RGB adapter for those of us whos HDTV's have RGB connectors instead of DVI-D.

















Note: the 4 pins around the + are the analog RGB pins. The other 24 pins are the digital pins. Only 12 are used for single link DVI.

I'm pretty sure the 811 is DVI-D and does not have those 4 analog RGB pins. So a DVI-A or DVI-I connector will not physically be able to plug into a 811.


----------



## dbax

Great review. 

I am a little confused about the SD/HD button. I have a 36" sony HD ready set that is 3x4. It has a 16x9 enhanced mode (shrinks the horizontal scan lines down so that you don't "waste" the scan lines on the black bars). If I am using either the Component or the DVI output and use the HD/SD button, can I set it up to have SD output 3x4 and HD output 16x9?

That way I won't have to change the inputs on the TV from Component to S-Video when switching from HD to SD content.

Thanks,
Dan.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

dbax, I don't know and have no way of testing it, as I don't have a 4x3 hdtv. I do know that there are 2 different 4x3 tv settings, so one of them may do what you want to do, if I'm understanding your question.


----------



## tm22721

Most projectors need all five signals RGBHV but that DVI connector only appears to provide RGB. 

Where would the 15 pin VGA connector get its HV sync signals ?


----------



## Jetlag

Cyclone said:


> I'm hoping we'll be able to use a little DVI-I to RGB adapter for those of us whos HDTV's have RGB connectors instead of DVI-D.


Make that 2 of us! This would be ideal for my S1.

BTW, What's up with all of the cats?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I pretty much started the cat thing a while back. Of course, I remember your little beasts there jetlag. I'm going to try a DVI-RGB dongle out this weekend to see what happens when connected to a computer monitor (my only VGA source).


----------



## JoeQ

BarryO said:


> This was covered in the last Tech Chat. They dropped support for just one feed because they ran into too many "corner cases" to deal with (e.g., what happens if the user attempts to do this particular thing that requires two feeds, etc.). It must have been consuming alot of debug time, for something they judged to be relatively low priority.


Mark,
In spite of the fact that this was covered,Some of us (like me) would appreciate it if you still could try one feed and see what happens.

I assumed the dual feed was for allowing one to watch a show WHILE another was being recorded.
I have a TIVO connected to my 6000 so obviously, I can only watch a previously recorded show WHILE one is being recorded. 
Never really cared for or felt a burning need for anything more than that.

The reason I would like to get away with one feed is that I was hoping it would be a straightforward swap out of the TIVO/6000 with the 921 and keep my 5000+HD mod.

Thanks for your patience with answering all these questions. I know it is taking a LOT of your time.

Joe


----------



## Mark Lamutt

JoeQ said:
 

> Mark,
> In spite of the fact that this was covered,Some of us (like me) would appreciate it if you still could try one feed and see what happens.
> 
> The reason I would like to get away with one feed is that I was hoping it would be a straightforward swap out of the TIVO/6000 with the 921 and keep my 5000+HD mod.
> 
> Thanks for your patience with answering all these questions. I know it is taking a LOT of your time.
> 
> Joe


I figured it would be about like this when I volunteered for this effort. That's OK, though - it's fun playing with the newest toys around.

I'm definitely going to still do this test, Joe. Have no worries. It's on the list for Saturday.


----------



## angiodan

Mark, great info and review on the 921! 

I can't wait till Mark from Dish Depot calls me to come pick it up!!


----------



## EdV

Mark Lamutt said:


> I've manually added DTV channels in my testing, and don't remember an option to assign it to one of the networks. I'll check again this weekend, though.


Mark,

It's funny how sometimes the obvious escapes me. It just dawned on me that the 6000 and it's offspring, the 811 and 921 were designed to get OTA Digital program info via PSIP. But PSIP is not available for analog channels, so they allow you to assign analog channels to one of the 3 major networks for prime time guide info but they don't when you add a digital channel.

But PSIP has been problematic and none of the Boston channels that I get are showing program info in the guide, so I have to think that many others aren't getting it either.

Correcting this problem will likely take quite some time, so I think I'll add a request to provide a shorter term workaround to allow assigning digital OTA channels to one of the three networks. If set to "None" (the default) would use PSIP.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

EdV said:


> Mark,
> 
> It's funny how sometimes the obvious escapes me. It just dawned on me that the 6000 and it's offspring, the 811 and 921 were designed to get OTA Digital program info via PSIP. But PSIP is not available for analog channels, so they allow you to assign analog channels to one of the 3 major networks for prime time guide info but they don't when you add a digital channel.
> 
> But PSIP has been problematic and none of the Boston channels that I get are showing program info in the guide, so I have to think that many others aren't getting it either.
> 
> Correcting this problem will likely take quite some time, so I think I'll add a request to provide a shorter term workaround to allow assigning digital OTA channels to one of the three networks. If set to "None" (the default) would use PSIP.


None of the Dish receivers use PSIP now, or have ever used PSIP to get guide data because of the very reason you brought up. Not all stations are sending guide data over PSIP, and those that do, do it differently than other stations. Apparently there's a lot of leeway in the application of the ATSC standards in that regard.


----------



## DonLandis

tm22721 said:


> Most projectors need all five signals RGBHV but that DVI connector only appears to provide RGB.
> 
> Where would the 15 pin VGA connector get its HV sync signals ?


The sync is composite sync on G or green. We have successfully connected the Green via T- barrel BNCs to the S input which is usually the H on an RGBHV connection. Internally your projector will pull the V sync off the H input. If you have a HD DB15 connector plug on your projector you will also need a breakout cable from DB15HD to 5 BNC's. Most projector's RGBHV input is designed to work this way so it is compatible with several configurations of RGB signals. Then again yours may be one of those that doesn't support this and you will need a sync stripper, converter from Extron or similar company. Sorry, but these are expensive!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I have a report:

I connected the DVI-I to VGA converter dongle that I got with my ATI Radeon 9000pro video card to the DVI port on the 921, and then connected a spare computer monitor to the dongle.

It works.

I'm currently viewing content on both my television connected via component cables and the monitor connected via the DVI port simultaneously. So, this would indicate that when the receiver is set in HD mode, both the component output and the DVI output are active.

And, it confirms that the DVI port is in fact DVI-I.

The DVI port is NOT active when the 921 is set to SD mode. Only HD mode.

I'll update the review with these findings this weekend.


----------



## Jetlag

MARK! DON"T LET E* KNOW!!! They may take this fabulous, unbelievably wonderful feature away!!! Let's see, how do I delete Mark's last post, hmmmm.....


----------



## bytre

Groovy, nice feature to hear of!


----------



## bytre

Here's another question: If you change the aspect ratio between 4:3 and 16:9, does the program guide utilize the additional horizontal space to display more program information?

Looking at your guide screenshot (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_guide_rec_2HD.jpg), it looks like there is a black border around the guide, making it look like this is not supported. If not, that would be a good feature request.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

bytre - the answer to that question would be no.


----------



## Danny R

_If I am using either the Component or the DVI output and use the HD/SD button, can I set it up to have SD output 3x4 and HD output 16x9? That way I won't have to change the inputs on the TV from Component to S-Video when switching from HD to SD content._

dbax, if your sony TV is like mine, it will automatically go into 16:9 mode anytime it sees a progressive signal higher than 480p. Thus to change from HD to SD without switching inputs, you need to adjust the Display Settings output resolution accordingly in the 921 menus. For SD material, you could probably leave it at 480p and your set will stay in 4x3 mode. For HD material, you have it converted to 1080i and it will bump into 16x9 mode automatically. However the 921 has only one setting for its output. This makes it difficult if you are browsing between HD and SD channels as you have to constantly switch display modes manually.

See the requests about output options posted in the requests section of this forum for the 921. An automatic or default display mode for each input resolution is a primary feature a lot of us would like to have. Voice your support for this feature in that message forum.


----------



## tm22721

Does anybody have a source for this newfangled 'DVI-I to VGA converter dongle' other than the Radeon 9000Pro ??

TIA


----------



## Mark Lamutt

tm22721, ask your question in one of the other forums - you'll probably get a better response, and this thread really isn't the place to ask it.


----------



## santellavision

Mark,
So, we only know that the Analog portion of the DVI port is not active in SD mode. But, we're not totally sure if the Digital DVI output is active or not - right?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Ernie, I don't understand your question, most likely because I don't know how DVI works. When I had the 921 set to SD mode, nothing was displayed on the monitor that I had connected to the DVI port via the DVI->VGA converter. I would think that would indicate that nothing comes out of the DVI port when the 921 is in SD mode. Or am I missing something?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

mcowher said:


> Will the 921 EVER output to SD and HD simultaneously, or is it a hardware limitation.
> 
> What about the RF output? Can this output simultaneously with HD?


Going back throught the thead to answer questions...

The 921 will not be able to output HD and SD simultaneously. The hardware doesn't support it.


----------



## Tom Horner

Mark Lamutt said:


> I've had the 921 since Friday afternoon, the 12th, and have spent just about every waking minute since putting it through it's paces. If you have questions, I'll do my best to answer them if I can. Please be advised that there are issues that I can't discuss due to the Non-Disclosure Agreement that I've signed with Dish Network to beta test the 921.
> 
> Mark,
> Your review (especially with the screen shots) was very informative. I have a good feeling for the 921 now except for one thing. I'm a TIVO user and am hooked on using the Season Pass function. Does Dish PVRs support anything like this? If you are not familiar with TIVO, the Season Pass is a smart function that tracks your recording selection if it moves around in time/date. It also let's you record 1st Run, 1st Run+Reruns, or All (meaning it looks on other channels also). This is a Killer app for TIVO. I'm not sure if RePlay has this or not. If Dish 921 PVR doesn't have this kind of capability, then I know people (I'm undecided at this point) who will wait (almost indefinitely) for an HD TIVO box. The integration of Receiver+PVR might be enough for me to take the plunge. The IR blaster I use now to control my Dish receiver fails occasionally (at the worst time of course).
> 
> Another question for me is IR support. I think you said that the remote doesn't support IR, but the receiver might??? I've just converted to Harmony Remote and don't want to have to go back to multiple remotes. And my wife will kill me if I do.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

kls said:


> Sweet review - thanks Mark. I've read lots of posts about the front popping off so you can add another harddrive. I'm guessing it doesn't since you didn't mention it, but thought I'd ask. Does it still have the smaller door on the front with usb/mic connections like the 721?


Update to this question: Yes, there is a small sliding door on the front of the 921 behind which lives the smartcard, a usb port and an input that looks like it might be a mic input.


----------



## mcowher

I wonder if one of these VGA to NTSC converter boxes coupled a DVI to VGA converter and the fact that Component and DVI are output simultaneously would allow us to display simultaneously to our HDTV's and NTSC TV's?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?CatId=316


----------



## Mark Lamutt

A_Noland said:


> Mark,
> And finally, if the HD buffer is 2 hours, how long is the SD pause buffer?


Update to this question - the SD pause buffer is also 120 minutes, just like the HD buffer.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Tom Horner said:


> Mark,
> Your review (especially with the screen shots) was very informative. I have a good feeling for the 921 now except for one thing. I'm a TIVO user and am hooked on using the Season Pass function.
> (season pass description not copied...)
> 
> Another question for me is IR support. I think you said that the remote doesn't support IR, but the receiver might??? I've just converted to Harmony Remote and don't want to have to go back to multiple remotes. And my wife will kill me if I do.


The 921 does not have a season pass type feature, although it does list whether a program is NEW or not in the program guide program description, so I think the capability may be there to add one in the future. But not now.

The 921 does respond to the IR command of the older dish remotes. Read through the thread and you'll see the discussion on this.


----------



## tm22721

'The 921 will not be able to output HD and SD simultaneously. The hardware doesn't support it.
'

That's good for those of us with video scalars having auto input switching.


----------



## greggg

Mark about the SD and HD output at the same time. I have heard from many people that SD looks better if run through S-Video and not DVI or Component. What I wanted to do was hook up the DVI then run S-Video to another input on my TV. This way when SD is on, probably 90% of the time, I could just switch inputs. Are you saying I can't do this?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

greggg said:


> Mark about the SD and HD output at the same time. I have heard from many people that SD looks better if run through S-Video and not DVI or Component. What I wanted to do was hook up the DVI then run S-Video to another input on my TV. This way when SD is on, probably 90% of the time, I could just switch inputs. Are you saying I can't do this?


Greggg, absolutely you can do this - that's exactly the way that I have my 921 currently connected to my system (except for component rather than DVI).

The point is that the svideo or composite video outs are only active when the 921 is set to SD mode. And the component and DVI ports are only active when the 921 is set to HD mode.

And actually, SD material looks BEST on the 921 when it's converted to 480p and output via component (or DVI) - it's by far the best SD picture I've ever seen a Dish receiver put out.


----------



## santellavision

Mark,
To explain my question better, with DVI-I, there are Digital video pins and Analog video pins. So, I was asking if all the DVI outputs (both digital & analog) are disabled when in SD.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I'm assuming that the fact that there was nothing displayed on my monitor connected to the DVI port when the 921 was in SD mode doesn't answer that question?


----------



## greylar

mcowher said:


> I wonder if one of these VGA to NTSC converter boxes coupled a DVI to VGA converter and the fact that Component and DVI are output simultaneously would allow us to display simultaneously to our HDTV's and NTSC TV's?
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?CatId=316


I would be willing to bet that you could do that since you are basically taking one of your HD feeds and converting it to NTSC. However I would bet the pq would suffer. MHO

G


----------



## Dominus

santellavision said:


> Mark,
> To explain my question better, with DVI-I, there are Digital video pins and Analog video pins. So, I was asking if all the DVI outputs (both digital & analog) are disabled when in SD.


My question involves using a DVI switcher with the 921.

Since the 921 has a DVI-I output can I connect it to a switcher (Gefen) and then to my DVI input on the TV? May be a different forum but wondered if the 921 uses the analog pins on their output or uses it for convenience for users can use either type (DVI-D or DVI-I) connections?

Thanks for the review. Looking forward to buying this puppy to go with my new HDTV.

Dom


----------



## greggg

So Mark are you saying forget about the two separate inputs and just go with DVI or component at all times? My TV of choice will be the Samsung 61 inch DLP. I am just waiting for the price to come down a little.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

No, I was responding to your statement about 480i svideo looking better than upconverting SD to 1080i or 720p. That much is true usually, although on the 921, the best looking SD video is upconverting 480i to 480p.


----------



## greggg

Got it. Thanks Mark sometimes it takes things a while to sink in. In many showrooms I have seen 480i upconverted to 1080i and it looks terrible. 480i to 480p does look good.


----------



## EatingPie

Phew made it to the end! Lotsa good info.

Wondering if you have any ETA info on Dishwire other than "as soon as possible." Since ASAP usually means anything from now to the end of the world. 

-Pie


----------



## BarryO

It's listed on the Dish Network website now: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/receivers/HD/index.shtml


----------



## Jetlag

I watched the Flash intro for the 921 via the above link. The 921 they showed was BLACK. Is it available in black? The only photos I have ever seen were silver. All of my other components are black so I would definitley be interested in this.

**edit** Actually, I think the one in the flash intro was a 522 not a 921, nevermind :sure:


----------



## Mark Lamutt

EatingPie said:


> Phew made it to the end! Lotsa good info.
> 
> Wondering if you have any ETA info on Dishwire other than "as soon as possible." Since ASAP usually means anything from now to the end of the world.
> 
> -Pie


Spring is the eta I've been told for the dishwire ports.


----------



## TVBob

Great work Mark. This is good stuff.

I know you've covered this but I'm still puzzled :scratchin . Can you set the 921 into HD mode, and get 480i (not 480p) 16x9 on the component video outputs? 

Why would you want to do this? To record down-converted widescreen HDTV onto a DVD-recorder such as the Philips DVD-R80, which has the nice red, green, blue component video inputs :righton: , but it can only record 480i (YCrCb) not 480p (YPrPb)  . I'm trying to find a way to archive "good" (not perfect) widescreen HDTV from the DVR-921 to DVD rather than to :money: D-VHS tape or :nono2: S-VHS.

Of course, it would be even better if the 921 firewire would work with the IEEE-1394 inputs of DVD recorders or TV sets (aka. Sony i.Link), but in the Tech Chats DISH has said that they will only turn on the firewire for one or two D-VHS recorders, and nothing more. Too bad, because many 2-year-old Sony and Mitsubishi HDTVs have i.Link inputs, not DVI, and many DVD recorders have firewire inputs that we can't use for anything other than DigiCams.


----------



## DonLandis

_"I'm trying to find a way to archive "good" (not perfect) widescreen HDTV from the DVR-921 to DVD"_

If this is all you want, why not connect your DVD recorder to your 921 in Y/C output plus audio left and right analog mode for the copy to DVD-R. The 921 will downconvert the HD video and digital audio to that which is compatible with the DVD-R recorder. If you have recorded it to the 921 hard drive you can switch the output to watch a second time using your hiDef output but your DVD-R would be a downconverted version of the program on DVD-R.

When the 1394 Dishwire gets activated it will output a 1394 HD signal that will not be compatible with DVD-R bit rate so DVHS will be the only choice from the Dishwire even if your DVD-R recorder has 1394 input. I'm not sure about the 921 dishwire output for SD recordings. That may work but we won't know until the dishwire engineers start answering questions. Maybe good questions at CES!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

TVBob said:


> Great work Mark. This is good stuff.
> 
> I know you've covered this but I'm still puzzled :scratchin . Can you set the 921 into HD mode, and get 480i (not 480p) 16x9 on the component video outputs?


Nope. As soon as you select 480i mode from the display options screen, the 921 automatically resets itself to SD mode, and turns off the video output from the component and DVI ports.


----------



## TVBob

DonLandis said:


> _"why not connect your DVD recorder to your 921 in Y/C output plus audio left and right analog mode for the copy to DVD-R."_


This would be fine for 4 x 3 SD, but I want to archive wide-screen 16 x 9 HD material to DVD, and S-Video is always 4 x 3. Yes, using letterbox mode, I could capture the full image, but this down-converts the image to way less than 480 lines because of all the space taken by the black bars. If you put the DISH-6000 in letterbox mode, then watch high-def material "zoomed" on the S-Video output, it looks pretty bad :ewww:.

Mark,

Does HD downconverted to 480p (or 480i) look any better on the 921 than it does on the DISH 6000 :coolglass?

If only the 921 would drive the component video outputs at 480i like some DVD players do, we might have a way to make decent wide-screen DVD recordings. I think the Samsung SIR-T165 HDTV receiver has this capability but I don't have one to give it a try (PM me if you have).

Can the D-VHS recorders output 480i at 16 x 9? If so, it would be a two-step process, but one could go from Dishwire to D-VHS then (finally) to DVD via component video.

But wouldn't it be even better if you could just plug a USB 2.0 DVD burner :disk: into the 921 to turn it into a DVD recorder like the Pioneer DVR-810H with TiVo (http://www.pioneerburner.com/)?

Wouldn't it be cool if you could plug a 200GB USB 2.0 hard drive into the 921 to give it extra disk space :righton:?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Bob - the downconverted 1080i to 480i looks just about exactly like it did on the 6000 (I'm saying that from memory, as my 6000 is no longer connected).


----------



## DonLandis

_"I want to archive wide-screen 16 x 9 HD material to DVD"_

Better wait to get the Blue Ray HD DVD recorder then. No current DVD-R recorder will record HD video. If it could then there would be no need for the development of HDTV DVD such as Blue Ray.

_"If you put the DISH-6000 in letterbox mode, then watch high-def material "zoomed" on the S-Video output, it looks pretty bad ."_

Yep! especially when your reference is HDTV source.

I don't understand why you don't want to record HDTV to a recorder designed for recording HDTV.

BTW you could also use the analog WVHS if you want to spend the money.


----------



## TVBob

DonLandis said:


> I don't understand why you don't want to record HDTV to a recorder designed for recording HDTV.


I really do, but I just don't want to use tape any more. Disks are so much better for all the obvious reasons. Rewinding? What's rewinding? 

Blue Ray will be great, but I fear it is at least five years away, despite what we might see at CES next month.

What I want now is a way to down-convert and save wide-screen HDTV, in real time, to wide-screen DVD, with Dolby 5.1 sound. Yes, I'll be losing some image quality by going from 720p or 1080i to 480p, but at least I'll end up with a good quality wide-screen recording that will play in anyone's $50 DVD player.

I hope the new Philips DVD-R90 will record 480p with Dolby 5.1. If it does, we'll finally have an HDTV to DVD solution that doesn't require a PC or a Blue Ray recorder.


----------



## DonLandis

OK, I now understand. (We may be going outside the scope of this thread) but I believe it can be done via computer HD capture card, and doing an edit in HDTV editng software to convert the output for SD recording including DD but only with a computer DVD-R recorder to receive the burn data from the digital stream direct. Seems like a lot of work just to avoid tape. I like DVD better than tape for many more reasons than you mentioned but tape is what we have now and it works and is not so difficult as well as it will be what is supported in the 921 dishwire.


----------



## Kryspy

Mark,

Should we assume that your 921 is a pre release demo due to the fact the front still bears the title DishPVR as opposed to DishDVR ?

Kryspy


----------



## tony97007

Mark Lamutt said:


> I have a report:
> 
> ...So, this would indicate that when the receiver is set in HD mode, both the component output and the DVI output are active...


So, am I correct in thinking that this capability could allow me to connect my main TV to the 921's DVI output, and a second TV in a nearby room to it's component output? For the cost of a 30' component video cable and some kind of remote repeater (?), I could share the 921 between my living room and bedroom TV's? :grin:


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Kryspy said:


> Mark,
> 
> Should we assume that your 921 is a pre release demo due to the fact the front still bears the title DishPVR as opposed to DishDVR ?
> 
> Kryspy


I believe that's the way the 921 will ship, as the one I have was shipped down from the warehouse the day I picked it up. All of the software says DishDVR.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

tony97007 said:


> So, am I correct in thinking that this capability could allow me to connect my main TV to the 921's DVI output, and a second TV in a nearby room to it's component output? For the cost of a 30' component video cable and some kind of remote repeater (?), I could share the 921 between my living room and bedroom TV's? :grin:


At this point in time, that should work.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Post #8 in this thread (direct link here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=175995&postcount=8) has been updated with more review information and answers to all of the questions (I think) that I said I'd check into this weekend. Got more questions? That's what I'm here for!


----------



## wildman

Hope this isn't too simple a question, but....

I have a plasma display (fujitsu) with DVI-D, but the 921 is DVI-I.

How will one know if the two devices will interface?


----------



## MikeSoltis

> I have a plasma display (fujitsu) with DVI-D, but the 921 is DVI-I.


Good question, I have been wanting to know this also. Does the 921 output on DVI through the digital pins or the analog pins, or both? AFAIK, a DVI-D cable will plug into a DVI-I jack, just won't pass the analog signals (no pins)...



> ... forward frame advance jumps ahead 1 frame at a time, while the reverse frame advance jumps back approximately 5 frames at a time or so.


Mark, the 501 does this too. I believe it's just something inherent in the nature of digital video coding, it's easier to scan forward smoothly than it is to scan backwards. I'm sure someone on this forum can explain it in a little more detail than I.


----------



## DVDDAD

tony97007 said:


> So, am I correct in thinking that this capability could allow me to connect my main TV to the 921's DVI output, and a second TV in a nearby room to it's component output? For the cost of a 30' component video cable and some kind of remote repeater (?), I could share the 921 between my living room and bedroom TV's? :grin:


That sounds like it should work. But why would you need a remote repeater if the 921 has a UHF remote?


----------



## thorr

I do not have a phone line. Can I use this product? I am concerned about activation, upgrades and program data, etc. Thanks.

Mike


----------



## thorr

Regarding DVI-I, DVI-I is both DVI-D and DVI-A (digital and analog) compatible. Some of the connector holes in the DVI-I are for analog, others are for digital. A DVI-D cable is missing some pins, but plugs into the DVI-I port just fine.


----------



## wildman

Thanks Thorr for the response...

But to clarify, are you saying because it plugs in fine that it passes all the information necessary between the two fine too?


----------



## thorr

Yes, that is what I am saying. DVI-I is like two outputs in one. In fact you can get a splitter cable to make two outputs (one digital, one analog RGB): http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=DVIIY-1


----------



## Mark Lamutt

thorr - currently, Dish doesn't require a phone line connection. That may change in the future, however.


----------



## thorr

Mark - Thanks, that is totally awesome news! Up until now, the upcoming Comcast solution was my only option. I will definitely have to weigh the options before making a purchase. It will come down to monthly price, firewire, and number of HD channels.

I currently have DirecTV, but they don't support Tivo's internet connection method, so my days with them are numbered.


----------



## peterd

Mark Lamutt said:


> *Separate memory for HD and SD, similar to 6000?*
> 
> The answer to this one currently is no. If a HD channel is set to Normal mode, then SD channels will also be in Normal mode when the SD/HD button is pressed. One AR is active, whether you're watching HD or SD.


Mark -

From your answer, I'm not sure the original question was clear. I _never_ press the SD/HD button on my 6000 (always in HD mode). Here's the scenario: I tune in an SD (480i) channel and set the aspect to (for instance) Stretch, then I tune in an HD (480p, 720p or 1080i) channel and set the aspect to Normal. After than, as I change channels, the 6000 will change from Stretch to Normal as I move from any SD channel to any HD channel. What does the 921 do?


Mark Lamutt said:


> *Using satellite locals to get program info for local OTA recordings*
> 
> I had said in my review earlier that I had gotton this to work. I couldn't get it to work again in my testing this weekend. So, it appears that it's not possible (or at least not possible reliably) to set a timer to a satellite local channel, and then edit that timer to change the recording channel to a local OTA digital channel, and still retain the program information for the recording.


Mark -

Did you by any chance try the same thing using an analog OTA station with mapped prime-time network listing as the starting point?

I have to say, I hope this lack of OTA listings was "the" bug that was holding up the release. Time-shifting HBO, HDNET, etc. is ok, but their schedules already have a lot of redundancy built into any given week. It is the network schedules where DVRs really shine. If Dish told me I could timeshift HD OTA using the guide to get program listings and that to do that I'd have to pay not only the $4.99 DVR fee but also $5.99 for (SD) locals, I'd probably (grudgingly) pay up. But if I can't use the guide to get program listings for HD OTA (and all my recordings show up in the list as date & time without any titles!), not only will I not buy the 921 (which I've been planning on buying for 2 years since seeing it at CES), but I will be eagerly awaiting the HD DirecTivo (even though it means giving up on DVHS archiving of movies via Dishwire)!

(My $0.02)


----------



## Mark Lamutt

peterd said:


> Mark -
> 
> From your answer, I'm not sure the original question was clear. I _never_ press the SD/HD button on my 6000 (always in HD mode). Here's the scenario: I tune in an SD (480i) channel and set the aspect to (for instance) Stretch, then I tune in an HD (480p, 720p or 1080i) channel and set the aspect to Normal. After than, as I change channels, the 6000 will change from Stretch to Normal as I move from any SD channel to any HD channel. What does the 921 do?


You're right - I didn't get the original question. Now I do. The 921 acts like your 6000 does, performing exactly the way you describe in your scenario.



> Did you by any chance try the same thing using an analog OTA station with mapped prime-time network listing as the starting point?


Even after adding an OTA analog channel, and assigning it to a network, there's still no guide data for that OTA analog channel (at least not this time of night - there may be during primetime...I don't know). So, if there's no guide data to work from, it's a moot point.

And no, unfortunately, this isn't THE BUG...(although that is supposed to be fixed now - I should know tomorrow when the new software is downloaded).

I know that Dish has plans for guide data for the local OTAs, but it's still a few months off.


----------



## santellavision

> I never press the SD/HD button on my 6000 (always in HD mode).


Peter, I think you're missing out on something... the consensus of 6000 users is the best PQ is to use the SD output for SD material and HD for HD material. The scaler in the 6000 is crap. Almost any display's internal scaler will do a better job of scaling the SD material to 720/1080 than letting the 6000 do it.


----------



## peterd

santellavision said:


> Peter, I think you're missing out on something... the consensus of 6000 users is the best PQ is to use the SD output for SD material and HD for HD material.


Ernie -
Thanks. I realize this (in fact if I were after the absolute best PQ from my 6000 I'd get it SDI modded and feed that into my Vigatec). The big value of the 6000 for me is WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). It is easy to turn it on and tune to whatever channel without concern for whether it is SD or HD, OTA or DBS, Analog or Digital.

What my eyes are sensitive to when it comes to the poor SD PQ on satellite is not the effect of scaling, but (over-) compression artifacts. As a result, I avoid SD as much as possible. (Oh, and I don't leave the SD on stretch mode either - that was just an example so Mark would understand the behavior I thought was in question.  )


----------



## peterd

Mark Lamutt said:


> Even after adding an OTA analog channel, and assigning it to a network, there's still no guide data for that OTA analog channel (at least not this time of night - there may be during primetime...I don't know). So, if there's no guide data to work from, it's a moot point.


Mark -
Dish only provides guide data for OTA analog channels which are assigned to a network during primetime (even then there are gaps). Could you please try this test during primetime?

Thanks again for all your testing!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I'll try to take a look at that tomorrow night...hmmm...I guess that would be tonight, now.


----------



## DonLandis

Mark- How far into the future can you set a manual timer, (not from the guide as I know that is limited) Could you set the timer to record, say, 9PM - 10 PM on channel 101 for the next CC, I believe Jan 8th? or what ever, but beyond the normal guide limit?


----------



## Doody

> Peter, I think you're missing out on something... the consensus of 6000 users is the best PQ is to use the SD output for SD material and HD for HD material.


i do the same thing that peter does, and yes, it's sucky, but the root problem is that the unit should be configurable on an output basis, not absolutely. just like it stores stretch modes for HD -vs- SD channels, why can't it store the output mode (480i -vs- 720p (or whatever you prefer))? there has to be a means to automate this - way annoying.

or, even better, as has been discussed elsewhere here, a mode to just have it pump out whatever it's getting in - a "native" mode. many folks have plenty of other technology happy to take in whatever DISH can dish out (groan) and process it appropriately.

doody.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

DonLandis said:


> Mark- How far into the future can you set a manual timer, (not from the guide as I know that is limited) Could you set the timer to record, say, 9PM - 10 PM on channel 101 for the next CC, I believe Jan 8th? or what ever, but beyond the normal guide limit?


Don, I just set a manual timer from 8pm to 9pm for January 8, 2007...


----------



## Doody

> Don, I just set a manual timer from 8pm to 9pm for January 8, 2007...


sure, but did it work?   

doody.

"anybody can TAKE a reservation...."


----------



## Doody

*QUESTION*

my apologies if this has been answered already, but i didn't see it.

do we assume that the recordings are being stored on the hard drive in the format in which they were broadcast? so if you have your unit set to output 720p, is it storing the, say, SD data on the hard drive at the upconverted 720p or storing it at the 480i it presumably is transmitted at?

i would assume it is NOT storing the upconverted signal, but am curious.

tia,
doody.


----------



## tcj2001

Now since I heard DVR 921 is being shipped/ or going to be shipped, want to know if the big bug was fixed. Did not read about it any where so just checking.


----------



## TVBob

Mark,

How fast can the DVR-921 change channels? Specifically, how long does it take to see a clean picture after you press "Channel Up"? 3 seconds?

I suspect it's slower than the 6000 or 811 because of disk buffering. I also suspect it takes measurably longer to do "Channel Up" from HBO-HD to SHO-HD than from, say, Ch. 300 to 301, but maybe not.

I'd also like to know how long it takes the DVR-921 to lock on to an OTA HD or SD channel. The ATSC receiver built into my Sony KD-34XBR2 locks on to digital OTA channels very fast compared to the DISH 6000 8VSB module, which seems to be really sluggish. The DVR-921 OTA receiver is supposed to be much improved.


----------



## Glenn

Regarding the UHF/IR controversy with the 921's remote, the information on the Dish website says: _"Platinum Plus" UHF/Infrared 4-component universal remote control"_. This sounds like either the problem has been resolved, or somebody needs to update the website. Or I guess it could mean that it can transmit IR to some devices, but not to the 921. That sounds too insane to be possible, though. Does anybody know which is the case?


----------



## BobMurdoch

Doody said:


> *QUESTION*
> 
> my apologies if this has been answered already, but i didn't see it.
> 
> do we assume that the recordings are being stored on the hard drive in the format in which they were broadcast? so if you have your unit set to output 720p, is it storing the, say, SD data on the hard drive at the upconverted 720p or storing it at the 480i it presumably is transmitted at?
> 
> i would assume it is NOT storing the upconverted signal, but am curious.
> 
> tia,
> doody.


I would assume that all the data is being stored in the same format that it is coming down from the satellites. Whatever default ones and zeros being transmitted are being recorded. I would then assume that any downconverting/upconverting is being done in the receiver's memory.


----------



## TVBob

Glenn said:


> Regarding the UHF/IR controversy with the 921's remote, the information on the Dish website says: _"Platinum Plus" UHF/Infrared 4-component universal remote control"_. This sounds like either the problem has been resolved, or somebody needs to update the website. Or I guess it could mean that it can transmit IR to some devices, but not to the 921. That sounds too insane to be possible, though. Does anybody know which is the case?


What controversy? The 921's remote works the same as other DISH Universal remotes. It sends RF to the 921, and IR to anything else. The 921 also has an IR eye so you can control it with a Pronto or other Universal remote if you like, once you find the right set of codes.


----------



## tkcaptaina

all the screens remind me of the original 7100, 7200 DISHPLAYERs. A GUI I loved until I got my 510, now looks like I have to get used to it again


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Doody said:


> *QUESTION*
> 
> my apologies if this has been answered already, but i didn't see it.
> 
> do we assume that the recordings are being stored on the hard drive in the format in which they were broadcast? so if you have your unit set to output 720p, is it storing the, say, SD data on the hard drive at the upconverted 720p or storing it at the 480i it presumably is transmitted at?
> 
> i would assume it is NOT storing the upconverted signal, but am curious.
> 
> tia,
> doody.


The 921 records the satellite stream exactly as it receives it from the satellite. All display options and aspect ratios are applied when viewing the recorded data.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

tcj2001 said:


> Now since I heard DVR 921 is being shipped/ or going to be shipped, want to know if the big bug was fixed. Did not read about it any where so just checking.


Whether the 921 is shipping to retailers yet remains to be seen - there certainly a lot of rumors about that, but I don't have confirmation.

Regardless, the next software version, L1.43 is supposed to fix the BUG, but I don't have it yet. As soon as I do get the download, and confirm the BUG has been fixed, I'll be able to let you know.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

TVBob said:


> Mark,
> 
> How fast can the DVR-921 change channels? Specifically, how long does it take to see a clean picture after you press "Channel Up"? 3 seconds?


Channel changes take between 3 and 4 seconds from start to finish.



> I suspect it's slower than the 6000 or 811 because of disk buffering. I also suspect it takes measurably longer to do "Channel Up" from HBO-HD to SHO-HD than from, say, Ch. 300 to 301, but maybe not.


It's very comparable with the other Dish DVR receivers. And in my experience, it makes no difference what satellite channels you're switching between - the delay is between 3 and 4 seconds.



> I'd also like to know how long it takes the DVR-921 to lock on to an OTA HD or SD channel. The ATSC receiver built into my Sony KD-34XBR2 locks on to digital OTA channels very fast compared to the DISH 6000 8VSB module, which seems to be really sluggish. The DVR-921 OTA receiver is supposed to be much improved.


Currently, it takes about as long as the 6000 took to lock onto the local digital channels, but it may be improved with the next version of the software. The 921 signal processing is improved - I'm receiving weaker signals that I was having problems getting with the 6000 much better, but the lock time currently is about the same.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Glenn said:


> Regarding the UHF/IR controversy with the 921's remote, the information on the Dish website says: _"Platinum Plus" UHF/Infrared 4-component universal remote control"_. This sounds like either the problem has been resolved, or somebody needs to update the website. Or I guess it could mean that it can transmit IR to some devices, but not to the 921. That sounds too insane to be possible, though. Does anybody know which is the case?


Currently, the 921 uhf pro remote only sends uhf signals to the 921, and sends IR signals to other devices it controls. However, I have seen word that the remote may be modifyable to send IR to the 921 as well. I'm waiting on Dish to send me the information about it.


----------



## tcj2001

VSSLL say's

"We received our first shipment from DISH today.
They'll be in the mail shortly.
DISH Distributors will receive theirs Monday.
I'm waiting to see if JVC gets theirs today"


----------



## TimK

Mark Lamutt said:


> *I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome all of the people coming to DBSTalk for the first time to read this review! We're glad you're here, and hope you enjoy your stay!* :hi:


Well thanks, and Hi.

I just stepped into the DVR ranks with a Dish 510, but since my TV is HD ready (Samsung DLP) I'm interested in stepping up to the HD PVR.

But first, I need to figure something out. As far as I can tell, there is no way to program my Dish 510 to search for and record a program by name. I can search for a program by name manually, but it won't save that search and it won't use the search results to automatically program the DVR to record. (Unless I'm missing something.) Tivo and ReplayTV can both do this, and it seems like one of the most basic and obvious functions of a PVR -- central to the whole concept, in fact -- I can't believe that the DishPVR can't do it. Based on my reading of your review of the new HD DishPVR, it can't either. So if I want to record a show that moves around (eg: Farscape on SciFi) I have to go search for it manually and program a timer.

What is the point of increasing the recording quality without increasing the usefullness of the device? Please tell me I'm just missing something and this rather obvious feature does exist and I just haven't found it yet. Because I simply cannot believe someone would go to the effort to design a new expensive supposedly cutting edge device like this and make it brain dead.

All the pretty menus and fast scrolling guides in the world don't make up for a feature omission that makes the thing basically useless to me.


----------



## BobMurdoch

I'm pretty sure the 921 DOES have a search feature, where you can use your remote to enter in a keyword to search. My 721 has it, and I'm pretty sure the 921 does as well.


----------



## john72

I apologize if this question has been asked before, but has the 921 eliminated the use of an external smart card? I take it that everything is internal? The reason i ask is because i was reading up on the receiver and i saw in the brochure that there was a smart card recepticle in the front panel which you cannot see unless you open it. Anyhow im glad they covered it up if they use a smart card and if not even better cause i have a lil guy who likes to yank the smart card out every chance he gets! Anyhow someone let me know. 

Thanks also great review!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

TimK said:


> But first, I need to figure something out. As far as I can tell, there is no way to program my Dish 510 to search for and record a program by name. I can search for a program by name manually, but it won't save that search and it won't use the search results to automatically program the DVR to record. (Unless I'm missing something.) Tivo and ReplayTV can both do this, and it seems like one of the most basic and obvious functions of a PVR -- central to the whole concept, in fact -- I can't believe that the DishPVR can't do it. Based on my reading of your review of the new HD DishPVR, it can't either. So if I want to record a show that moves around (eg: Farscape on SciFi) I have to go search for it manually and program a timer.


What you're describing is name-based recording, a topic that has been discussed at great length around here. I would also love to see name-based recording as a feature on dish pvrs. It's even been mentioned in a technical chat that it's a possibility that is being looked at. But, according to the lawyer types, there are patents issues involved because Tivo holds the patent rights to the name-based recording technology.

So, while the 921 doesn't have name based recording, it does have a search by name feature, and retains that that search in the history, so that it can very easily be pulled up again.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

john72 said:


> I apologize if this question has been asked before, but has the 921 eliminated the use of an external smart card? I take it that everything is internal? The reason i ask is because i was reading up on the receiver and i saw in the brochure that there was a smart card recepticle in the front panel which you cannot see unless you open it. Anyhow im glad they covered it up if they use a smart card and if not even better cause i have a lil guy who likes to yank the smart card out every chance he gets! Anyhow someone let me know.
> 
> Thanks also great review!


The 921's smartcard is located behind a small sliding plastic door on the front of the receiver, in the center bottom position. It took me a minute to find it the first time I had to reboot.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Here's a question I hope you all can help me with....

My Sony KP57WV600 57" Rear Projection TV has an input it calls DVI-HDTV.

When ordering a DVI cable to run from the 921 to the TV directly, do I need a special kind of DVI cable (DVI-I, DVI-D, etc.) or will a DVI cable fit any DVI connection. Also, the connection on the back of my TV is female. Is the DVI connection on the back of the 921 also female? Just trying to get the cable right on the first shot....... I need to get a 4 Meter cable and was planning on getting the Monster Cable DVI400 Cable to get the job done. I've got all my components in a corner cabinet 3ft. to the right of the TV, and with the vertical rise and the fact that the inputs are on the back left of the TV I need the extra length.


----------



## tnsprin

Mark Lamutt said:


> The 921's smartcard is located behind a small sliding plastic door on the front of the receiver, in the center bottom position. It took me a minute to find it the first time I had to reboot.


I knew they were going to have a smarcard reader, but I thought they said they would not ship with smart cards?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

tnsprin said:


> I knew they were going to have a smarcard reader, but I thought they said they would not ship with smart cards?


The one that I have came with a smartcard in the slot.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

BobMurdoch said:


> Here's a question I hope you all can help me with....
> 
> My Sony KP57WV600 57" Rear Projection TV has an input it calls DVI-HDTV.
> 
> When ordering a DVI cable to run from the 921 to the TV directly, do I need a special kind of DVI cable (DVI-I, DVI-D, etc.) or will a DVI cable fit any DVI connection. Also, the connection on the back of my TV is female. Is the DVI connection on the back of the 921 also female? Just trying to get the cable right on the first shot....... I need to get a 4 Meter cable and was planning on getting the Monster Cable DVI400 Cable to get the job done. I've got all my components in a corner cabinet 3ft. to the right of the TV, and with the vertical rise and the fact that the inputs are on the back left of the TV I need the extra length.


The DVI port on the back of the 921 is female - you can see it in this picture of the back of mine: http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_back_close-2.jpg

The port is DVI-I, so you'd certainly be safe ordering a DVI-I cable, although I'm almost positive you can find a similar quality cable for a much less expensive price than the Monster one you're planning on. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## john72

Thanks Mark, so does that mean your using a smart card with yours? I read the 522 was all internal, but someone was telling me with the 921 you still used your smart card, someone else mentioned how they were shipping with or without smart cards etc. Anyhow so your still using your smart card?

Thanks bud


----------



## SParker

I guess I am not understanding what you guys are talking about. You can't seamlessly switch from a HD channel to a SD channel without doing a bunch of mumbo jumbo?


----------



## Doody

> I guess I am not understanding what you guys are talking about. You can't seamlessly switch from a HD channel to a SD channel without doing a bunch of mumbo jumbo?


of course you can. you might want to rephrase your question.

doody.


----------



## SParker

So i could have it set to 1080i output and have that for both HD and SD?


----------



## Tom Horner

Mark Lamutt said:


> So, while the 921 doesn't have name based recording, it does have a search by name feature, and retains that that search in the history, so that it can very easily be pulled up again.


Mark,
Thanks for this info and all your hard work. I have a couple of other questions about recording capabilities on the 921.

1. Can you record directly from the Guide? What I mean is if I am surfing through the guide and find something interesting can I push a record button to set a timer?

2. Can you decide to record a show that is already in progress and have the 921 be smart enough to capture the entire show?


----------



## Doody

> So i could have it set to 1080i output and have that for both HD and SD?


yes, the 921 will upsample the SD images to 1080i.

the problem is that if you want the best image quality, you probably don't want your 921 upsampling SD to 1080i - there are devices out there that can do that tons better than the 921, including, perhaps, your HD television.

doody.


----------



## Doody

> 2. Can you decide to record a show that is already in progress and have the 921 be smart enough to capture the entire show?


absolutely not. the unit would have to be recording EVERY channel ALL the time to have the immediate history available (and then discard completed programs you didn't ask for). the hard drive would die in a matter of minutes .

doody.


----------



## BobaBird

BobMurdoch said:


> do I need a special kind of DVI cable (DVI-I, DVI-D, etc.) or will a DVI cable fit any DVI connection?


See this thread over at SatelliteGuys. Good pictures and discussion. Read through it because there is some apparent misinformation that gets cleared up at the end.

The main points I brought away from it are
a DVI-D cable can be used with a DVI-I jack
a DVI-I cable can not be used with a DVI-D jack because the jack can't take the 4 extra pins


----------



## TimK

Mark Lamutt said:


> What you're describing is name-based recording, a topic that has been discussed at great length around here. I would also love to see name-based recording as a feature on dish pvrs. [...]


Well thanks for the quick reply. You just saved me a grand. I can't wait until I've completed my two year commitment with Dish so I can switch back to DirecTV and get a real Tivo instead of the sorry lawyer-limited Dish imitation I'm stuck with for now. Oh well, ya win some ya lose some, at least it was sort of free.


----------



## TVBob

Tom Horner said:


> 2. Can you decide to record a show that is already in progress and have the 921 be smart enough to capture the entire show?


This is a good question.

Say you manually tune to Channel 300 just as a movie is starting, and you watch "live," through the DVR buffer, for 15 minutes.

Then the phone rings, and you press Pause for 5 minutes.

Then you decide you have to go, but you really want to capture the entire movie, including the 15 minutes you've already watched, plus the 5 minutes on Pause, plus the rest of the movie, in the recordings list.

Is there a way to do this with the DVR-921 or any DISH DVR? I know my ReplayTV _cannot_ do this. The best it can do is capture the rest of the movie (everything after the first 20 minutes in this case). I don't know if TiVo can do this either.

It's one of those things that would be nice to have, but it's tough to implement because you have to combine two disk files into one without taking any time.

But the DVR could just split the movie into two parts, the first 20 minutes in "Part 1", and the rest of the movie in a separate listing labeled "Part 2", and this would satisfy most users I think. It avoids the problem of combining the live buffer with a separate file in real time. :righton:

This brings up a another question for

Mark,

Does the pause buffer clear and reset itself every time you change channels (as in a ReplayTV), or if you go change channels a few times, then you press rewind, do you see all the material recorded up to two hours prior, including prior channel changes?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

john72 said:


> Thanks Mark, so does that mean your using a smart card with yours? I read the 522 was all internal, but someone was telling me with the 921 you still used your smart card, someone else mentioned how they were shipping with or without smart cards etc. Anyhow so your still using your smart card?
> 
> Thanks bud


The 921 that I picked up has a smart card in it, and yes I am using it.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Tom Horner said:


> Mark,
> Thanks for this info and all your hard work. I have a couple of other questions about recording capabilities on the 921.
> 
> 1. Can you record directly from the Guide? What I mean is if I am surfing through the guide and find something interesting can I push a record button to set a timer?


Yes. You're browsing the guide, see something you want to record, press the select button on the remote, and then press the select button again on the timer screen that comes up and your timer is set to record.



> 2. Can you decide to record a show that is already in progress and have the 921 be smart enough to capture the entire show?


Yes, if you follow the correct procedure. At least you can on the 5xx series of receivers. This is near the top of my list for testing here in the next day or 2, so I'll be able to answer absolutely one way or the other then.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Doody said:


> absolutely not. the unit would have to be recording EVERY channel ALL the time to have the immediate history available (and then discard completed programs you didn't ask for). the hard drive would die in a matter of minutes .
> 
> doody.


This is incorrect if you are talking about recording the same channel you are currently watching.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

TVBob said:


> This is a good question.
> 
> Say you manually tune to Channel 300 just as a movie is starting, and you watch "live," through the DVR buffer, for 15 minutes.
> 
> Then the phone rings, and you press Pause for 5 minutes.
> 
> Then you decide you have to go, but you really want to capture the entire movie, including the 15 minutes you've already watched, plus the 5 minutes on Pause, plus the rest of the movie, in the recordings list.
> 
> Is there a way to do this with the DVR-921 or any DISH DVR? I know my ReplayTV _cannot_ do this. The best it can do is capture the rest of the movie (everything after the first 20 minutes in this case). I don't know if TiVo can do this either.


I believe the answer to this is yes, it does do this, but I'll have to test. On the 5xx series of receivers, this works very well. Start watching something, decide some time into it that you want to record the entire show, you rewind back to the beginning of the show, press record, select an option that pops up and the entire show, including what's in the buffer records to a DVR event.



> Does the pause buffer clear and reset itself every time you change channels (as in a ReplayTV), or if you go change channels a few times, then you press rewind, do you see all the material recorded up to two hours prior, including prior channel changes?


Yes, the buffer is cleared each time you change channels. The only solution that I know of where the buffer doesn't clear on channel chages is SageTV. Ask about that in one of the other forums and I'll answer you there if you're interested.


----------



## Chris Blount

TVBob said:


> I don't know if TiVo can do this either.


Yes it does but the buffer is only 30 minutes. With Tivo, pressing record will will automatically include anything that is in the buffer for that particular show.


----------



## acousticbiker

Is the 921 subject to a monthly DVR fee on top of the standard receiver monthly fee?


----------



## MNdish1

my projector doesn't have a DVI input, can I convert the DVI-I output to RGB (Computer VGA connector) and still retain the high definition output? Will there be any degredation in the output with this conversion?


----------



## kstevens

acousticbiker said:


> Is the 921 subject to a monthly DVR fee on top of the standard receiver monthly fee?


Yep.

Ken


----------



## TEN89

acousticbiker said:


> Is the 921 subject to a monthly DVR fee on top of the standard receiver monthly fee?


But if you have the everything pakage you won't have too. The receiver fee you will still have to pay.


----------



## tahoerob

I would sign up for AEP now if they would add Starz HD to the lineup. It would make the upgrade worth it.


----------



## Nashcat

kstevens &/or TEN89,

Exactly what fees are you talking about (monthly)?


----------



## santellavision

There is a $5.00 per month fee to use the 921. Unless you have the top-of-the-line Dish everything package.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

MNdish1 said:


> my projector doesn't have a DVI input, can I convert the DVI-I output to RGB (Computer VGA connector) and still retain the high definition output? Will there be any degredation in the output with this conversion?


Yes, you can convert - I've done it to connect my computer monitor. Don't know about degredation of signal, though.


----------



## gambit42

John Kotches said:


> Did you have opportunity to test Firewire input/output. It would be nice to archive from internal HD to D-VHS, as well as to pass D-VHS MPEG data to the 921, so that you can use DVI out and a single cable, instead of seperate cables.
> 
> Cheers,


it's not for certain when the dish wire port will be activated for that specific reason with copy right laws all up in the air these days they are holding off on activating that port


----------



## gambit42

oh and also there was a ? about the ota tuner and if you can use it without sat signal...or a dish account... the anwser is a big fat NO NO!!!! the reason why is because of the fact that dish learned there leason with the 6000 in which people where buying the 6000 not getting dish and using it as a ota tuner box so dish smartened up for once


----------



## BobMurdoch

gambit42 said:


> it's not for certain when the dish wire port will be activated for that specific reason with copy right laws all up in the air these days they are holding off on activating that port


I think it is more for buggy reasons rather than any copyright concerns. The DVR itself runs afoul of most studios' idea that consumers "contract" with them implicitly imply that we are to sit slavishly in front of their ads in exchange for the shows they produce. When we skip the ads we "break" that contract. (Not my words.... I think it was a Time Warner exec that floated that one but I'm not sure)

E* is NOT holding up the feature for that reason. I'm sure it is purely a time saving situation, until they can get the most serious bugs squashed first.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Bob - yup. Get big bugs fixed with receiver functionality first, then add the peripheral features.


----------



## guruka

Thanks for the Warm welcome, Mark. I just arrived here today and loved your in-depth review of the 921. I have a 501 and my 921 is on order and will arrive. . . sometime soon <g>

My 501 has the various screen icons on screen all the time. Like the 'pause' icon. If left onscreen for hours, I'm concerned about burn-in so I switch inputs on my HDTV to a blank input. I heard that the 921 would have a screen saver built-in. Does it? If so, how does it work?

Again, many thanks for your great review! .....G


----------



## Mark Lamutt

No screen saver yet on the 921 that I've found. It's there for the 721, though, so I suspect it will be a future feature.


----------



## Tim James

Mark, 
I was wondering if the 921 will bookmark (for the lack of a better term) the position of a recorded program when you press pause.

Example: 
1) Start watching previously recorded program A.
2) Press pause, and then start watching a live channel or another recorded program.
3) Go back to program A and pick back up where I left off without having to start at the beginning and FF to where I was in the program.

Thanks, -- Tim --


----------



## Mark Lamutt

The 921 may do what you describe because of the dual tuners, but the way I always do it is to stop the playback of the previously recorded program A, go watch program B (live) or program C (previously recorded). I then can go back to A, select RESUME and it starts again where I left off.

BTW - nice kitty, Tim. Looks very much like my other kitty.


----------



## Tim James

Thanks, That sounds like what I was hoping for (plays into my commercial avoidance strategy). I can't wait to get a 921!

And thats Bessy, she looks kinda drowsy because she always closes her eyes when the flash goes off.


----------



## Tom Horner

Doody said:


> absolutely not. the unit would have to be recording EVERY channel ALL the time to have the immediate history available (and then discard completed programs you didn't ask for). the hard drive would die in a matter of minutes .
> 
> doody.


I guess I wasn't clear in my question. I meant that while I was watching a show could I go back a record it from the start, assuming the beginning of the show was in the record buffer. I realize the the 921 can't monitor all channels.


----------



## guruka

Tom Horner said:


> I guess I wasn't clear in my question. I meant that while I was watching a show could I go back a record it from the start, assuming the beginning of the show was in the record buffer. I realize the the 921 can't monitor all channels.


I don't have my 921 yet, Tom, but I'm sure it can do this since all the other Dish PVR's (like my 501) can do it. You just back up to the beginning of the show and hit the record button and tell it to stop at the end of the event.

.....G


----------



## Doody

i believe mark confirmed it, tom. if you were watching it (presumably continuously without any channel surfing) from the beginning then the show should be on the hard drive and when you hit record it appends.

doody.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Correct.


----------



## wildman

I know the 921 has a DVI port, but is it active? 

And if anyone has tried it with a DVI cable, how is the picture compared to component, and what is your display device?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Yes, the DVI port is active. I connected a computer monitor to it via a dvi-rgb converter, and it worked fine. I can't comment though on how much better DVI looks over component.


----------



## wildman

Excellent Mark.

I am truly looking forward to this product on the market soon.

I know a lot of people have thanked you already, but I have truly enjoyed all of your thorough info and I wanted to throw my name into the thank you ring too.

I will be very interested in a side by side comparison to see if the DVI connection is an improvement like many expect. I wonder if staying in the digital domain makes that much of a difference.

I have a display with DVI and I haven't even had the chance to use it yet.

Have you found this scenario to be limiting and bothersome: You are recording an HD event (CSI, let's say) and you want to watch an SD show at the same time (let's say MASH) and you can't do it, or do you use a different receiver for that application?


----------



## Tool408

The DVI doesn't look any better than component. And does anyone know what Dish DVI is? If you look at the back panel it says Dish DVI. 
I bet it goes with the Dish HDTV


----------



## wildman

Tool408 said:


> The DVI doesn't look any better than component. And does anyone know what Dish DVI is? If you look at the back panel it says Dish DVI.
> I bet it goes with the Dish HDTV


What is your source for this statement? What is your test case to speak so confidently?

I imagine you have DVI on your DVD, or what?


----------



## MikeSoltis

> ...You are recording an HD event (CSI, let's say) and you want to watch an SD show at the same time...


I was under the impression this would not be a problem, is it?
I would hope you could watch something live (OTA or satellite) while recording something at the same time (satellite or OTA). Obviously you can't watch one OTA channel while recording another, but you should be able to do this with two satellite channels or one satellite and one OTA channel.


----------



## wildman

I could be wrong Mike. However, I couldn't find anything in the review to tell me I was. There are many references of recording two HD sources at the same time, and also sentences that you can't have SD and HD on at the same time as a hardware limitation, so I just put two and two together.

However, I certainly hope I am wrong. 

So who knows, can you record an HD and watch/record an SD at the same time?


----------



## MikeSoltis

wildman said:


> ...So who knows, can you record an HD and watch/record an SD at the same time?


Sorry Wildman, I thought you were talking about two sources, I didn't read into it an HD and an SD source simultaneously... 
I guess we'll have to wait for Mark or one of the plethora of other current 921 owners :lol: to let us know.

So what we want to know is can you watch one source and record another at the same time, whether both HD, SD, or one of each....


----------



## wildman

Okay, Mike, I am sure on one aspect of that question.

You can record two HD at the same time. You can record two SD at the same time. I don't think you can record one of each at the same time, because the 921 has a hardware limitation that it is in either SD or HD, but it is not ever working in both.

Then again, as I said, I could be wrong. Mark is never away from helping us for too long, so he will wade in soon I'm sure.


----------



## TheDarkFalcon

wildman said:


> Okay, Mike, I am sure on one aspect of that question.
> 
> You can record two HD at the same time.  You can record two SD at the same time. I don't think you can record one of each at the same time, because the 921 has a hardware limitation that it is in either SD or HD, but it is not ever working in both.
> 
> Then again, as I said, I could be wrong. Mark is never away from helping us for too long, so he will wade in soon I'm sure.


I certainly hope this is not the case! The 921 is far too expensive to be plagued with a limitation of this magnitude in my opinion.

I am jumping into HDTV with E* this Friday. I am watching the 921 very closely as it caught my eye with it HDTV DVR abilities. I am lusting after the 921, and I do not want anything to change my opinion of it!


----------



## DonLandis

_"I am jumping into HDTV with E* this Friday. I am watching the 921 very closely as it caught my eye with it HDTV DVR abilities. I am lusting after the 921, and I do not want anything to change my opinion of it!"_

Have you ordered your 921 yet? I haven't been to all the dish dealers in Jax but some of the largest ones have surprised me with their attitude toward the 921.


----------



## Foxbat

wildman said:


> I don't think you can record one of each at the same time, because the 921 has a hardware limitation that it is in either SD or HD, but it is not ever working in both.


I'm sure Mark will verify the 921 can record an HD and an SD program at the same time.

Like the 6000 (and unlike the 811), the HD/SD limitation on the 921 applies only to the outputs, where the s-video/composite outputs are live at 480i or the DVI/composite outputs are live at 720p/1080i. Of course, I _haven't_ received mine yet, so I'm only making an educated guess based on other reviews and Dish's website.


----------



## wildman

It sounds like you know Foxbat, so I hope you are right. 

If you can record HD and SD simultaneously, then why is there such consternation over the outputs?

The only irritant would be channel surfing between SD and HD on the same tuner. That's not so bad. That would be a small nuisance at worst to me.

However, no ability to record SD and HD at the same time would be a serious limitation. It wouldn't kill me, (I would keep the PVR hooked up), but it would hurt.


----------



## boma

I don't think this has been has been asked yet. 
If a show has been recorded in HD (widescreen), can it be played back in SD? This way I could record on my Pany DVD recorder in at least a Very Good quality in wide screen.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Wow...I'm away from the forum for 4 hours so I can actually watch a little tv with the 921, and look what happens... 

Yes, the 921 can record and/or watch HD and SD at the same time. Yes, you can record an OTA digital channel and watch a SD satellite (or HD satellite) channel at the same time.

The only thing you CAN'T do is PIP if one of the tuners is tuned to a HD channel - that's what the hardware doesn't support.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

boma said:


> I don't think this has been has been asked yet.
> If a show has been recorded in HD (widescreen), can it be played back in SD? This way I could record on my Pany DVD recorder in at least a Very Good quality in wide screen.


Absolutely - there's no differentiation between recorded HD and SD material at playback - how it's displayed is only determined by what your display properties are set to. So, you set your display properties to 480i and 16x9, you'll be recording an anamorphically enhanced 480i image to dvd.


----------



## TheDarkFalcon

DonLandis said:


> _"I am jumping into HDTV with E* this Friday. I am watching the 921 very closely as it caught my eye with it HDTV DVR abilities. I am lusting after the 921, and I do not want anything to change my opinion of it!"_
> 
> Have you ordered your 921 yet? I haven't been to all the dish dealers in Jax but some of the largest ones have surprised me with their attitude toward the 921.


No I have not ordered it yet. I am just not graduating from my 508 SD to 811 for HDTV this Friday. I am just sitting by and keeping up with the updates and hoping my wife will let me get a 921 soon.

Are the dealers in Jax trashing the 921 or do they think it will be an uplift for E*?


----------



## TVBob

Mark Lamutt said:


> Absolutely - there's no differentiation between recorded HD and SD material at playback - how it's displayed is only determined by what your display properties are set to. So, you set your display properties to 480i and 16x9, you'll be recording an anamorphically enhanced 480i image to dvd.


Really Mark? This is quite different from the DISH 6000 in 480i mode (aka "SD" mode). If you tune the DISH 6000 to a wide screen high-def broadcast, you only have two zoom choices in 480i mode:

"Normal" - letterbox mode, black bars at top and bottom, <480 lines devoted to actual video
"Full Zoom" - 480 lines high, but the left and right side of wide screen image are cropped

If the PVR-921 offers an anamorphic mode for wide screen high-def broadcasts (full 480-line height, no cropping, so the faces look narrow and "squished" on a 4 x 3 display), then that would be really cool for making DVD recordings, far better than what you can do with a DISH 6000. Of course since it's down-converted from 1080i or 720p, it won't look as good a store-bought DVD, but it should look better than a recording made from an SD channel.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

It is true - it works very differently than the 6000 in this regard, and one of the really nice features of the 921, in my opinion.


----------



## kstevens

wildman said:


> Excellent Mark.
> 
> I am truly looking forward to this product on the market soon.
> 
> I know a lot of people have thanked you already, but I have truly enjoyed all of your thorough info and I wanted to throw my name into the thank you ring too.
> 
> I will be very interested in a side by side comparison to see if the DVI connection is an improvement like many expect. I wonder if staying in the digital domain makes that much of a difference.
> 
> I have a display with DVI and I haven't even had the chance to use it yet.
> 
> Have you found this scenario to be limiting and bothersome: You are recording an HD event (CSI, let's say) and you want to watch an SD show at the same time (let's say MASH) and you can't do it, or do you use a different receiver for that application?


You don't stay in the digital domain, it's just a matter of where it is converted to analog. With component, the analog conversion is done by the receiver, with dvi, it is done by the tv, which ever has the better converter will give you the best picture (unless you have a true digital tv).

Ken


----------



## dmodemd

TVBob said:


> Really Mark? This is quite different from the DISH 6000 in 480i mode (aka "SD" mode). If you tune the DISH 6000 to a wide screen high-def broadcast, you only have two zoom choices in 480i mode:
> 
> "Normal" - letterbox mode, black bars at top and bottom, <480 lines devoted to actual video
> "Full Zoom" - 480 lines high, but the left and right side of wide screen image are cropped
> 
> If the PVR-921 offers an anamorphic mode for wide screen high-def broadcasts (full 480-line height, no cropping, so the faces look narrow and "squished" on a 4 x 3 display), then that would be really cool for making DVD recordings, far better than what you can do with a DISH 6000. Of course since it's down-converted from 1080i or 720p, it won't look as good a store-bought DVD, but it should look better than a recording made from an SD channel.


I don't quite understand.... why is that good for DVD recording? Won't the recording take the 4:3 squished display view and record it as is? I have the Panasonic e60 and I don't see a way to record to widescreen, so I wouldnt imagine it would stretch that back out to a 16:9 widescreen recording. Wish there was a way...

Lee


----------



## beeaton

Mark..

Thanks for the great review!!

Quick question.. 
What dish or dishes is needed for the 921 to function? Are you using the Superdish?


----------



## Danny R

_I don't quite understand.... why is that good for DVD recording? Won't the recording take the 4:3 squished display view and record it as is? _

Yes the recording will do exactly that. That is how ALL anamorphic DVDs look when displayed in 4:3 mode.

What you do then is when you play that particular DVD, you tell your display to go to anamorphic mode (on my 4:3 sony I change the display from 4:3 to 16:9), and the DVD will then display in its proper widescreen mode. Some TV's will jump to widescreen if you have your DVD player output upgrade to 480p as well, which will also show your movie in the proper format then.

I'm guessing the only limitation is that the anamorphic flag isn't set automatically using this method, as the DVD recorder doesn't know the signal isn't 4:3. Thus if you can't change your TV modes it wouldn't work well for you.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

dmodemd said:


> I don't quite understand.... why is that good for DVD recording? Won't the recording take the 4:3 squished display view and record it as is? I have the Panasonic e60 and I don't see a way to record to widescreen, so I wouldnt imagine it would stretch that back out to a 16:9 widescreen recording. Wish there was a way...


Yeah, it would record the squished 4x3 image, but then when you play it back, you have your 16x9 television set to anamorphic mode (on my sony it is FULL mode), and the picture fills the screen with no loss of resolution.

This does you nothing if you're playing back on a 4x3 television - it's only good for 16x9 televisions.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

beeaton said:


> Mark..
> 
> Thanks for the great review!!
> 
> Quick question..
> What dish or dishes is needed for the 921 to function? Are you using the Superdish?


I've got dish 500 and dish 300 connected with a DishPro34 switch. The superdish apparently doesn't yet work with the 921.


----------



## SJ HART

I thought that Scott Greczkowski had his 921 connected to a Superdish? Maybe I read it wrong....


----------



## BobMurdoch

He does have it connected to a Superdish. He said it didn't work at first, but that it found the other birds after the download.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

The check switch does find 105 however when I go the signal strength screen it reports 0 for all the transponders on 105 (My 721 is hooked up as well to the same switch and it gets all the 105 transponders no problem)

When I try tuning to channel 7000 (The SuperDISH welcome channel) I get a message that transponed 7 of Satellite UNKNOWN could not be found.

So from this it appears the 921 does not work with the SuperDISH.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Thanks for clarifying that Scott.


----------



## scottchez

So anyone open one of these things yet?


Some are saying the box is so big becuase there is a un used IDE connector in there with room for a 2nd drive.

The rails for the 2nd drive were confirmed to of been there on a a Feb 2003 alpha version.

Did they make it to production?


----------



## Wildfire_36

Geesh! Finally made it thru all 11 pages of this. Did not understand a lot of the technical babble, but for the most part I am impressed! WTG Mark! You did a great job!

I now only have to wait for it to come down in price! LOL I have added it to my Christmas 2005 wish list! LOL


----------



## HookedOnTV

Also just made the read, and it was a good one. Little bum'd about the OTA guide issue. Would allowing you to "link" an OTA channel to a SAT channel be that difficult? Maybe a question for the other forum.

Did want to make a comment on the DVI cable questions. Most TV's with a DVI input have a DVI-D connection. A DVI-I or DVI-A cable will not plug in to this.


----------



## tahoerob

I have successfully duplicated the OTA bug!!!!!!!
I had to smart card reset & rescan DTV channels. I am just going to wait on the other channels until software update!


----------



## ggw2000

Mark, I have read this thread from the very beginning. I have a line on a 921 to be shipped to me tomorrow. I believe I saw reference to this awhile back but need to make sure of the answer. I currently have a 501 & 6000U receiver hooked up in the same audio/video cabinet. I have a Dish 500 with a twin LNBF and two cables coming off it. I have a Dish 300 (61.5) with a single LNBF and two cables coming off from it. One cable from each dish feeds a SW21 switch. The outputs from each SW21 switch goes to one of the receivers. My plan is to replace both receivers with the 921 by just hooking up both cables to the back of the 921. Please tell me that this will work fine. Thanks, Gerry


----------



## BillsSpamMail

I live in an apartment complex that has a central dish for several hundred apartments. Each room in my apartment has a single cable drop and additional drops cannot be added. Each drop appears to have 110, 119, and 148 available. Will the DPP44 allow the DVR-921 to feed both its tuners from a single drop? Why can't a signal splitter be used to feed both inputs on the 921 from the one drop? Since we are not allowed to own our own equipment, does anyone know if DishNetwork plans to make this model available for rent.

Thanks


----------



## tahoerob

ggw2000 said:


> Mark, I have read this thread from the very beginning. I have a line on a 921 to be shipped to me tomorrow. I believe I saw reference to this awhile back but need to make sure of the answer. I currently have a 501 & 6000U receiver hooked up in the same audio/video cabinet. I have a Dish 500 with a twin LNBF and two cables coming off it. I have a Dish 300 (61.5) with a single LNBF and two cables coming off from it. One cable from each dish feeds a SW21 switch. The outputs from each SW21 switch goes to one of the receivers. My plan is to replace both receivers with the 921 by just hooking up both cables to the back of the 921. Please tell me that this will work fine. Thanks, Gerry


This was almost exactly my setup.
All I had to do was remove the DishPro line adapter from the 6000 input, and I was ready to go.


----------



## ggw2000

Tahoebob, I don't have any kind of "Dishpro" adapter on by setup (don't know what that is). Just strictly cables to SW21's and cables to the 501 & 6000U.. Gerry


----------



## bytre

scottchez said:


> So anyone open one of these things yet?


Over at the satelliteguys.us forums there is a thread with photos of the interior.


----------



## b5lurker

ggw2000 said:


> Tahoebob, I don't have any kind of "Dishpro" adapter on by setup (don't know what that is). Just strictly cables to SW21's and cables to the 501 & 6000U.. Gerry


When I bought my 921 I was told that the SW64 switch is the only legacy switch that works, otherwise a full DishPro install is required. Thankfully that is exactly what I have.

Steve


----------



## Mark Lamutt

ggw2000 said:


> Mark, I have read this thread from the very beginning. I have a line on a 921 to be shipped to me tomorrow. I believe I saw reference to this awhile back but need to make sure of the answer. I currently have a 501 & 6000U receiver hooked up in the same audio/video cabinet. I have a Dish 500 with a twin LNBF and two cables coming off it. I have a Dish 300 (61.5) with a single LNBF and two cables coming off from it. One cable from each dish feeds a SW21 switch. The outputs from each SW21 switch goes to one of the receivers. My plan is to replace both receivers with the 921 by just hooking up both cables to the back of the 921. Please tell me that this will work fine. Thanks, Gerry


Gerry, I think your setup will work if you replace both of your receivers with the 921, but I can't say absolutely that it will because I don't have that kind of setup, and have no way of testing it myself. The 921 doesn't require dishpro lnbs and switches, so theoritically, it should work. But, I'll ask the question to verify.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

BillsSpamMail said:


> I live in an apartment complex that has a central dish for several hundred apartments. Each room in my apartment has a single cable drop and additional drops cannot be added. Each drop appears to have 110, 119, and 148 available. Will the DPP44 allow the DVR-921 to feed both its tuners from a single drop? Why can't a signal splitter be used to feed both inputs on the 921 from the one drop? Since we are not allowed to own our own equipment, does anyone know if DishNetwork plans to make this model available for rent.
> 
> Thanks


I don't believe you will be able to use the 921 with your setup because what you're talking about is a commercial install that probably modulates the dish channels with QAM modulation. The 921 can't work with that. What do you use for a current receiver?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

b5lurker said:


> When I bought my 921 I was told that the SW64 switch is the only legacy switch that works, otherwise a full DishPro install is required. Thankfully that is exactly what I have.
> 
> Steve


Steve - I'm almost positive this isn't correct.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Mark Lamutt said:


> Gerry, I think your setup will work if you replace both of your receivers with the 921, but I can't say absolutely that it will because I don't have that kind of setup, and have no way of testing it myself. The 921 doesn't require dishpro lnbs and switches, so theoritically, it should work. But, I'll ask the question to verify.


I've gotton confirmation - yes, the 921 works just fine with cascaded SW21 switches.


----------



## ggw2000

Mark, thanks for checking on the SW21 switch hookup! Hopefully we will find out it does work around next wednesday (fingers crossed, etc.). Will post results. I also sent an email to Dish telling them that I thought it was about time to post some installation diagrams for the 921. That would be nice huh.. Thanks again, Gerry


----------



## Jetlag

(I apologize for cross-posting this from AVS Forum , just thought everyone here might like to see this)

I knew it would not take long. There is a 921 available on eBay. It's not a pre-order, he actually has one new-in-box. The current bid is about $1100.

Look up item number 3069051113

It will be interesting to see what it goes for. My guess, $1500

p.s. We need more dog pics on this forum, I feel like I'm all alone!


----------



## BarryO

BillsSpamMail said:


> I live in an apartment complex that has a central dish for several hundred apartments. Each room in my apartment has a single cable drop and additional drops cannot be added. Each drop appears to have 110, 119, and 148 available. Will the DPP44 allow the DVR-921 to feed both its tuners from a single drop? Why can't a signal splitter be used to feed both inputs on the 921 from the one drop? Since we are not allowed to own our own equipment, does anyone know if DishNetwork plans to make this model available for rent.
> 
> Thanks


FYI, If the apartment's equipment cannot supply you with the signals you desire, then you are most definitely allowed to install your own equipment, under federal law, no matter what the apartment management thinks about it. This assumes you have some area under your control, such as a balcony or window, where you can put your dish.

See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html for more info. Basically, you want to watch and/or record channels from 2 different transponders simultaneously. If What your landlord supplies won't enable you to do that, then you can install your own equipment, in areas under your control.


----------



## peterd

Mark Lamutt said:


> I've gotton confirmation - yes, the 921 works just fine with cascaded SW21 switches.


I can also confirm this first hand. My setup: legacy duals from 110 & 119 into an SW44 plus a legacy dual @ 148 cascaded into 2 SW21s. No problem. (With the switches, that is. Of course, the 921 itself is another story... :lol: Definitely a work in progress!)


----------



## Raymond Simonian

TVBob said:


> Really Mark? This is quite different from the DISH 6000 in 480i mode (aka "SD" mode). If you tune the DISH 6000 to a wide screen high-def broadcast, you only have two zoom choices in 480i mode:
> 
> "Normal" - letterbox mode, black bars at top and bottom, <480 lines devoted to actual video
> "Full Zoom" - 480 lines high, but the left and right side of wide screen image are cropped
> 
> If the PVR-921 offers an anamorphic mode for wide screen high-def broadcasts (full 480-line height, no cropping, so the faces look narrow and "squished" on a 4 x 3 display), then that would be really cool for making DVD recordings, far better than what you can do with a DISH 6000. Of course since it's down-converted from 1080i or 720p, it won't look as good a store-bought DVD, but it should look better than a recording made from an SD channel.


Can this be done now with the 921? What connections would you use? Firewire does not need to be active? Can the DVI or component out of the 921 accomplish this? If it can, I am thinking of using the Panasonic DMR-HS2.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Ray - yes, it can be done now to that Panasonic writer, but you'd be limited to recording with the composite video out from the 921. I have no idea if the dishwire ports will support dvd writers in the future when they get activated or not. You can't use DVI or component because that Panasonic doesn't have DVI or component IN.


----------



## Raymond Simonian

Mark Lamutt said:


> Ray - yes, it can be done now to that Panasonic writer, but you'd be limited to recording with the composite video out from the 921. I have no idea if the dishwire ports will support dvd writers in the future when they get activated or not. You can't use DVI or component because that Panasonic doesn't have DVI or component IN.


This is great news. I just went to the Panasonic.com. I don't need a hard drive so I think I can get by with the DMR-E60S. This is the way I watch wide screen DVD's now. I just widen the picture on the RCA 38310. Up until I got the 811 last month it was the only way I took advantage of anything that looked like HDTV. The 811 can't be utilized this way, can it? When you say "set your display properties to 480i and 16x9", you mean the 921 display. The 811 does not have 480i. It only has 480p, 720p and 1080i.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

SD mode on the 811 is 480i - it just may not be specifically available in the display properties screen. But, that's a topic for another thread.


----------



## Doody

has anybody been able to muck with the DVI connector much yet? 

specifically, i'm curious to know what's being broadcast encrypted -vs- not encrypted. my plasma will take DVI but does not currently handl HDCP. am i toast? or are they only shipping HD encrypted? or are they not encrypting anything yet (like the cable co's did when they started with DVI)?

tia,
doody.


----------



## Raymond Simonian

Mark Lamutt said:


> Ray - yes, it can be done now to that Panasonic writer, but you'd be limited to recording with the composite video out from the 921. I have no idea if the dishwire ports will support dvd writers in the future when they get activated or not. You can't use DVI or component because that Panasonic doesn't have DVI or component IN.


Mark, I am just trying to combine several threads to figure out how to make a anamorpohically enhanced 480i image from the 921 to a DVD SD recorder. Must you first have a program recorded in HD on the 921. Then change the ouput settings on the 921 to 480i and 16x9 to record on the DVD?


----------



## tahoerob

Doody said:


> has anybody been able to muck with the DVI connector much yet?
> 
> specifically, i'm curious to know what's being broadcast encrypted -vs- not encrypted. my plasma will take DVI but does not currently handl HDCP. am i toast? or are they only shipping HD encrypted? or are they not encrypting anything yet (like the cable co's did when they started with DVI)?
> 
> tia,
> doody.


I got a DVI-I cable today. I plan on connecting it tomorrow & comparing to the component.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Do all DVI cables work with the different connections? My Sony KP57WV600 has what it calls a "DVI Digital" connection. Does anyone know if all the DVI cables are standardized or do I need to match up my TVs input with the 921's? (And anyone know Sonys well enough figure out which cable I need?)


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Raymond Simonian said:


> Mark, I am just trying to combine several threads to figure out how to make a anamorpohically enhanced 480i image from the 921 to a DVD SD recorder. Must you first have a program recorded in HD on the 921. Then change the ouput settings on the 921 to 480i and 16x9 to record on the DVD?


You got it. At least that's the way that makes sense to me to do it.


----------



## rossie

Mark,
Thanks for your efforts in evaluating the 921. I pre-ordered back in February and hope to receive my 921 soon. I currently have a 6000 which I put into a
homemade cabinet. The slot for the 6000 is just short of 5 1/4 inches high. Does the 921 have feet that could be removed, so I could place the 921 in the slot where the 6000 is now? Thanks.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

The 921 doesn't have feet. It's a little less than 5" high, but I'd really suggest not putting it in a spot that small - it needs air flow to vent just like any other heat generating home theater component.


----------



## scottchez

I have a Sony KP57WV600 also.


Any ideas?


----------



## BobMurdoch

scottchez said:


> I have a Sony KP57WV600 also.
> 
> Any ideas?


I'm pretty sure we need the DVI-D cable but I was checking to see if anyone else was sure. I do know that since the new DVI standard with Audio integrated came out in 2003 we are SOL. But the DVI-D connector should work fine. I was just wondering if anyone else had confirmed it or not.


----------



## Raymond Simonian

Mark Lamutt said:


> You got it. At least that's the way that makes sense to me to do it.


O.K so when you down load the recorded HD image to the SD DVD and have the 921 set at 480i and 16x9, the 921 would have to be set to SD so that the S video out and the RCA-type audio/video are active. This should make the anamorpohically enhanced DVD. If I receive the 921 as expected on Tuesday, I will ckeck it out. It seams technically correct.


----------



## rossie

Mark Lamutt said:


> The 921 doesn't have feet. It's a little less than 5" high, but I'd really suggest not putting it in a spot that small - it needs air flow to vent just like any other heat generating home theater component.


Mark,

The shelf directly above the 6000 supports my center channel speaker. The
cabinet is being used as a tv stand as well as for storing components. My
center speaker is only 4 3/4" deep where it sits on the shelf. I'm thinking about either cutting the shelf off to 4 3/4" or drilling a bunch of holes in the shelf directly behind the speaker for ventilation for the 921. Do you think that will work ok? By the way, the specifications I downloaded, give the height as 5.25".


----------



## Mark Lamutt

rossie said:


> Mark,
> 
> The shelf directly above the 6000 supports my center channel speaker. The
> cabinet is being used as a tv stand as well as for storing components. My
> center speaker is only 4 3/4" deep where it sits on the shelf. I'm thinking about either cutting the shelf off to 4 3/4" or drilling a bunch of holes in the shelf directly behind the speaker for ventilation for the 921. Do you think that will work ok? By the way, the specifications I downloaded, give the height as 5.25".


I think you might end up with a heat problem if you just drill the holes, but that's just my opinion with very little to back it up without seeing your setup. I have my 921 in a space that's about 11 inches high with about and inch clearance on either side of it, and an open back.

As for the height of the box, I had taken a ruler to it when I made that last post. A tape measure gave a measurement of 5-1/8th inches (actually about 1/32" less than that).


----------



## Schaefling

Is it possible to record a OTA program in HD and watch another OTA program in HD at the same time? I noticed that you indicated you can record two satellite HD programs at the same time and can record an OTA program and a satellite program at the same time but there has been no mention of being able to watch one OTA HD program while watching another OTA HD program at the same time.

Along the same lines can you describe how the OTA coax cable connects to the 921 and whether or not a second connection is required from the 921 to an Antenna input on the back of the HDTV in order to enable OTA HDTV viewing and recording?

Time-shifting is the great benefit in my opinion of DVRs and knowing just what one's options are with respect to HD OTA viewing and recording is crucial in determing just how much timeshifting can be achieved by the 921.

Schaefling


----------



## kstevens

Schaefling said:


> Is it possible to record a OTA program in HD and watch another OTA program in HD at the same time? I noticed that you indicated you can record two satellite HD programs at the same time and can record an OTA program and a satellite program at the same time but there has been no mention of being able to watch one OTA HD program while watching another OTA HD program at the same time.
> 
> Along the same lines can you describe how the OTA coax cable connects to the 921 and whether or not a second connection is required from the 921 to an Antenna input on the back of the HDTV in order to enable OTA HDTV viewing and recording?
> 
> Time-shifting is the great benefit in my opinion of DVRs and knowing just what one's options are with respect to HD OTA viewing and recording is crucial in determing just how much timeshifting can be achieved by the 921.
> 
> Schaefling


Not possible, you only have 1 OTA tuner therefore you can either watch one ota channel or record one ota channel, not both.

Ken


----------



## ggw2000

Tahoebob, I look forward to your comparison of the component input vs the DVI input. My current RPTV does not support DVI but if there was a drastic difference I might be forced to upgrade  . Please check all aspects and let us know... Gerry


----------



## tahoerob

ggw2000 said:


> Tahoebob, I look forward to your comparison of the component input vs the DVI input. My current RPTV does not support DVI but if there was a drastic difference I might be forced to upgrade  . Please check all aspects and let us know... Gerry


duly noted. I have not done it yet. I will probably do it tomorrow when I am off & all kids & wife are out of the house :hurah:

however, I am using component now & prev. with the 6000. HD still looks great & SD better than 501


----------



## beeaton

Quick question...

Where can I buy the 921 right now?

Thanks!!!!


----------



## tahoerob

beeaton said:


> Quick question...
> 
> Where can I buy the 921 right now?
> 
> Thanks!!!!


just found NEW Ebay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3069987250&category=32845


----------



## tahoerob

Component vs DVI 
I compared Component to DVI on the 921:

First of all the 921 WILL output to both simultaneously. However, at times when switching back & forth between video outputs on my TV, the component would be blank.

Well hands down, the component WAS BETTER than the DVI.
PQ was better by far especially with color. The DVI color was more faded & washed out looking. Not what I expected.
Also, the component might have been a little sharper, but it could have been related to the color issue.
It was the same on all channels: HD, SD, OTA


----------



## Jerry G

tahoerob said:


> Component vs DVI
> I compared Component to DVI on the 921:
> 
> First of all the 921 WILL output to both simultaneously. However, at times when switching back & forth between video outputs on my TV, the component would be blank.


Were you using a DVI-D or DVI-I cable?

With the blank component output, were you outputting 1080, 720, or 470p? If 1080, did you try 720 to see if you had a blank component output?


----------



## DonLandis

Rob- You must recalibrate the monitor forDVI with new color sat, brightness and contrast and then you compare the two images for the very thing you mentioned, edge definition, color bleed, color purity and chroma noise, etc. DVI should be about the purest video signal possible on the digital side as derived from the MPEG2 compressed data stream. The analog component is also from the compressed MPEG2 source but is then analog encoded to a YUV color difference signal which reduces the chroma resolution vs. even RGB analog.


----------



## tahoerob

DonLandis said:


> Rob- You must recalibrate the monitor forDVI with new color sat, brightness and contrast and then you compare the two images for the very thing you mentioned, edge definition, color bleed, color purity and chroma noise, etc. DVI should be about the purest video signal possible on the digital side as derived from the MPEG2 compressed data stream. The analog component is also from the compressed MPEG2 source but is then analog encoded to a YUV color difference signal which reduces the chroma resolution vs. even RGB analog.


good to know. I did not calibrate the DVI output.

The TV was set for 1080i. THe blank issue was intermittant & not predictable!?

I used a DVI-I cable.


----------



## Jerry G

tahoerob said:


> The TV was set for 1080i. THe blank issue was intermittant & not predictable!?
> 
> I used a DVI-I cable.


OK. I asked because I found the same blank component output also when I had a DVI cable attached. It was a DVI-D cable and it only happened when the 921 was set for 1080i output. When set for 720 output, the picture was fine with both DVI and component inputs into the set. Advanced tech support said the problem with the blank component output was because I wasn't using a DVI-I cable. That would now appear to be incorrect given that you found the same problem with a DVI-I cable.

Try setting the 921 to 720p output and see if you reliably get video on the component output when the DVI cable is connected. I have a DVI-I cable on order and if I find the same blank component video when set to 1080i, we should submit this as another bug.


----------



## tahoerob

Jerry G said:


> OK. I asked because I found the same blank component output also when I had a DVI cable attached. It was a DVI-D cable and it only happened when the 921 was set for 1080i output. When set for 720 output, the picture was fine with both DVI and component inputs into the set. Advanced tech support said the problem with the blank component output was because I wasn't using a DVI-I cable. That would now appear to be incorrect given that you found the same problem with a DVI-I cable.
> 
> Try setting the 921 to 720p output and see if you reliably get video on the component output when the DVI cable is connected. I have a DVI-I cable on order and if I find the same blank component video when set to 1080i, we should submit this as another bug.


 the blank screen on componet was usually when I was on a SD channel. It did not blank on HD or OTA.

Also, ,my Sony has a few built in PQ adjustments like vivid, standard, pro, mild. Just changing to vivid made my component MUCH better.

One of the wonders of the 921 is that I can now RECORD the HDNet Test Pattern show ([email protected]) & run the patterns to calibrate my DVI later this week!!!

Robert


----------



## Jerry G

tahoerob said:


> the blank screen on componet was usually when I was on a SD channel. It did not blank on HD or OTA.


In your previous post you said your set was set for 1080i when the component blanking occurred. Are you now saying the component blank was with SD output? If so, that's to be expected as I don't think the component output is active with SD output. Can you clarify?


----------



## BobMurdoch

Hmm. My Sony only allows a DVI-D connection. Is that going to present a problem for me? I just bought a DVI-D cable (The Monster Video cable) today as it was the only one they carried and it is the only one that will fi the input on the back of my TV. It has the same three rows of pin sockets that the 921 does, but it only has a horizontal slot to the right vs. the 921 which has a crosshair with a pin socket in each quadrant.

BTW, the horizontal bar lines up perfectly with the horizontal line of the crosshair on the DVI Cable.


----------



## Jerry G

Bob, I don't think you'll have a problem with the DVI-D cable. My quick test with that cable demonstrated that the DVI connection was working fine. The problem I has was with the simultaneous use of the component outputs, which didn't have a picture when the 921 was set to 1080 and I also had a DVI-D cable. My DVI-I cable will arrive tomorrow and I'll test the same configuration. But if you're only going to use the DVI input on your set, you should be OK with your DVI-D cable.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Thanks it was sounding like the DVI was not working as well as the components there for a sec......

I have extra inputs for either available and I figured the DVI made better sense.

I already have my component video switcher on my receiver maxed out with three inputs (my DVD, Xbox, and GameCube for the kiddies), so I was hoping the hype was dead on and the DVI would give me the best possible picture with no potential interference from other power cords, interconnects, or other sources of signal corruption.


----------



## ggw2000

I believe that you will find that most DVI connectors on the back of RPTVs are DVI-D connectors. I also believe that since they do NOT have the RGB female holes around the slot on the right side that you will not be able to plug a DVI-I male connector into it. A DVD-D cable will work fine as the sets don't use the RGB pins, only the digital pins. Gerry


----------



## alipka

I have been experiencing DVI issues as well.
I am running a DVI-I cable from the 921 to a Pioneer 503-CMX.
This input on the Pioneer has been working fine when I hooked up my Macintosh PowerBook with DVI to it, for example.

However, on either 1080i or 720p with the 921 I get a black screen; the Pioneer displays "out of range".

Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Jerry G

alipka said:


> I have been experiencing DVI issues as well.
> I am running a DVI-I cable from the 921 to a Pioneer 503-CMX.
> This input on the Pioneer has been working fine when I hooked up my Macintosh PowerBook with DVI to it, for example.
> 
> However, on either 1080i or 720p with the 921 I get a black screen; the Pioneer displays "out of range".
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


Which video card is in your Pioneer plasma? If it's the 504 (I think that's the number), the DVI input is designed for a computer and will not work with a HDCP video signal that is put out by the HD STBs.


----------



## Jim Christian

BobMurdoch said:


> Do all DVI cables work with the different connections? My Sony KP57WV600 has what it calls a "DVI Digital" connection. Does anyone know if all the DVI cables are standardized or do I need to match up my TVs input with the 921's? (And anyone know Sonys well enough figure out which cable I need?)


I use the cables at www.stores.ebay.com/hdtvsupply as they are tesed to 37 Mhz or 1080i before they ship.

A 6' component cable only costs $24 and DVI is about the same. I think you need DVI-D


----------



## alipka

Jerry G said:


> Which video card is in your Pioneer plasma? If it's the 504 (I think that's the number), the DVI input is designed for a computer and will not work with a HDCP video signal that is put out by the HD STBs.


I have the 5002 video card, and you are right that this card doesn't support HDCP.

My understanding, however, is that the HDCP signal is not currently turned on.

However, you might be right; it might be that no stations are broadcasting copy never or copy once, but that the signal is still there.

Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## tahoerob

Jerry G said:


> In your previous post you said your set was set for 1080i when the component blanking occurred. Are you now saying the component blank was with SD output? If so, that's to be expected as I don't think the component output is active with SD output. Can you clarify?


The blank screen was only intermittant while using BOTH DVI & component outputs. I normally was using the component without any problems by itself with HD, SD, or OTA


----------



## Jerry G

alipka said:


> I have the 5002 video card, and you are right that this card doesn't support HDCP.
> 
> My understanding, however, is that the HDCP signal is not currently turned on.
> 
> However, you might be right; it might be that no stations are broadcasting copy never or copy once, but that the signal is still there.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this?


I don't think the problem is so much HDCP as the kind of signal. The computer video signal is different that the 720p/1080i signal. The 5002 card is designed for a DVI computer signal. I forget all the details, but this has been discussed extensively at the AVS forums. You will not be able to use the DVI port on the 5002 card with the 921, 811, or essentially any other STB that has DVI output.

Aurora Multimedia does make a card for the Pioneer that has an HDCP compatible DVI port that should work with the 921.


----------



## Jerry G

tahoerob said:


> The blank screen was only intermittant while using BOTH DVI & component outputs. I normally was using the component without any problems by itself with HD, SD, or OTA


Thanks. My DVI-I cable arrived. I'll try it tonight and see if I still have the same problem, which I expect I will have based upon your results.


----------



## ggw2000

Mark, this is probably a stupid ? but I guess that's how you learn . The RF connector on the back that says TV Antenna/Cable In, would one assume that this is only for a connection for a HD antenna for OTA? You can't connect a cable company line here can you? (ie lifeline local channels).. Thanks


----------



## Mark Lamutt

ggw - that's definitely not a stupid question, and my answer is I don't know because I haven't tried. I have my antenna plugged into that port, and have local digital and analog channels coming through. I suppose it's possible you could connect a cable line for passthrough of analog cable. You couldn't get cable HD, digital cable or scrambled cable channels but the cable channels in the clear you might get.


----------



## Jim Parker

ggw
I moved my cable from the TV to the 921 RF connector to see what would happen, and it did work. I got the unscrambled analog local channels thru the 921. However, since you can not record the analog channels it really did not gain me much. I moved it back to the TV.


----------



## ggw2000

Mark & Jim, man you guys are fast! You answered my ?. You can pass thru analog cable but as Jim says "so what" just switch the TV input to watch that stuff . Useless unless it was recordable. Thanks again, Gerry ps: Anchorage Alaska! Feels like that here today -6 wind chill Yikes


----------



## ggw2000

JimP, one other quicky. When you hook your analog cable to the RF input, how do you access the cable channels using the 921? Gerry


----------



## Throwbot

Mark Lamutt said:


> ggw - that's definitely not a stupid question, and my answer is I don't know because I haven't tried. I have my antenna plugged into that port, and have local digital and analog channels coming through. I suppose it's possible you could connect a cable line for passthrough of analog cable. You couldn't get cable HD, digital cable or scrambled cable channels but the cable channels in the clear you might get.


Mark stupid question #2 . Will the 921 not record analog OTA channels? only digital? maybe I am missing something in the thread. It was the next thread after your post that said no analog recording.
Plus did anyone log a feature request for the 921 to become a Wireless G media box as well. that would be cool. I know Gateway has a DVD player that does it now. Very cool.


----------



## bytre

>> Will the 921 not record analog OTA channels? only digital? maybe I am missing something in the thread

This should be covered somewhere in the thread, but it is long. No recording of analog OTA channels - the 921 doesn't have an mpeg encoder in it. It will record SD OTA signals.


----------



## Jim Parker

ggw
I am not in front of the TV right at the moment, so I can't give you step by step, but you go thru the add OTA setup and the locals show up on the guide with the right local channel #s.

We are having a real Alaska winter this year. Anchorage got 39 inches of snow in Dec, only 5 inches below the all time record. It was -8F at my house this morning. There is a large high pressure system up north, and a low pressure system to the south. The two systems are causing high winds, the airport recorded a gust at 79 MPH yesterday. Brrrr! However, it it supposed to end today and back to about 20F by tomorrow. Last few winters have been very mild. Last winter it never dropped below 0 once, the first time that has ever happened.


----------



## Throwbot

bytre said:


> >> Will the 921 not record analog OTA channels? only digital? maybe I am missing something in the thread
> 
> This should be covered somewhere in the thread, but it is long. No recording of analog OTA channels - the 921 doesn't have an mpeg encoder in it. It will record SD OTA signals.


By SD I assume you mean locals fed by / thru your Dish?


----------



## bytre

>> By SD I assume you mean locals fed by / thru your Dish?

Actually, I meant local ATSC digital channels which are broadcast in standard definition, as opposed to NTSC analog channels. My post above was unclear.


----------



## Throwbot

bytre said:


> >> Will the 921 not record analog OTA channels? only digital? maybe I am missing something in the thread
> 
> This should be covered somewhere in the thread, but it is long. No recording of analog OTA channels - the 921 doesn't have an mpeg encoder in it. It will record SD OTA signals.


Does this then mean no pause / replay / any DVR functions for OTA analog signals, only digital? I am asking because I have ordered a 921 without anyway of knowing if I can pick up my local HDTV digital programs. My regular analog signals are fine, but some of the UHF channels are snowy which makes me nervous seeing HDTV seems to use the UHF band to transmit. I am not eligible for locals thru dish.


----------



## Throwbot

bytre said:


> >> By SD I assume you mean locals fed by / thru your Dish?
> 
> Actually, I meant local ATSC digital channels which are broadcast in standard definition, as opposed to NTSC analog channels. My post above was unclear.


Oh I see , but I still need to be able to pick up the digital signal.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

No recording, and no trick play of OTA analog signals. They are a straight passthrough.


----------



## tahoerob

Throwbot said:


> Does this then mean no pause / replay / any DVR functions for OTA analog signals, only digital? I am asking because I have ordered a 921 without anyway of knowing if I can pick up my local HDTV digital programs. My regular analog signals are fine, but some of the UHF channels are snowy which makes me nervous seeing HDTV seems to use the UHF band to transmit. I am not eligible for locals thru dish.


UHF analog & digital are apples & oranges. If you even get half decent OTA analog channels, I bet you will get OTA digital just fine. VHF is actually a weaker long distance digital signal. If you get VHF analog, the UHF digital will probably be strong.
I live ~65 miles from towers & I get some easily. You mainly need a decent line of site toward tower area without tall buildings directly next to you or major hills. The same antenna you have now will work. Do you already have a preamp?? rotor?? These are highly recommended.


----------



## Throwbot

tahoerob said:


> UHF analog & digital are apples & oranges. If you even get half decent OTA analog channels, I bet you will get OTA digital just fine. VHF is actually a weaker long distance digital signal. If you get VHF analog, the UHF digital will probably be strong.
> I live ~65 miles from towers & I get some easily. You mainly need a decent line of site toward tower area without tall buildings directly next to you or major hills. The same antenna you have now will work. Do you already have a preamp?? rotor?? These are highly recommended.


Thanks tahoerob, I have a preamp, but did not need it for VHF, it helped a lot with UHF. Don't have a rotor, hope I will not need as all the stations transmit from the same hill around 60 miles away in Cleveland. Still a $15.0 handheld signal strength gizmo would sell. Anyone know of such an anaimal?
PS. Mark, knock this thread over to another page if you want. I think your original thread has unraveled a bit.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

No worries...this is the one pure discussion thread in the 921 forum, so I'm letting it keep going wherever it goes.


----------



## guruka

Has anyone tried plugging a wireless USB keyboard into their 921 yet? (I assume it doesn't come with a keyboard - my 921 hasn't arrived yet.) If so, does it work? And what keyboard did you use?

Thanx, .....G


----------



## Schaefling

I was disappointed to hear that the 921 has only one OTA HDTV tuner especially since it is my understanding that the soon to arrive HDTV Tivo Directv satellite receiver/dvr has 2 OTA tuners and two satellite HDTV tuners. 

However, I was pleased to hear that the 921 does not use the antenna RF input in the back of the HDTV because what I would like to do is to connect both a Samsung HDTV OTA receiver and a 921 to my 40 inch Sony HDTV. I was thinking in this way I could record OTA HDTV programs with the 921 while watching OTA HDTV programs right off of my antenna using the Samsung OTA HDTV receiver.

I know I would need two feeds from my rooftop antenna to use both the 921 and the Samsung HDTV OTA receiver but other than this requirement as long as I have the necessary inputs in the back of the TV and the ability to switch between the 921 and the Samsung HDTV OTA receiver I believe I should be able to record HDTV OTA programs and watch HDTV OTA programs at the same time.

Is my thinking correct or am I missing something which would make this impossible? This question is for Mark and for anyone else out there who might know the answer to this question. Any and all responses would be greatly appreciated.

Schaefling


----------



## Jerry G

Schaefling, what you propose is fine. As you said, you'd need to split your antenna input, with one going to the 921 and one going to your TV. I have a 921 and 811 side by side, both with antenna inputs connected, so I can record one OTA with the 911 and watch another via the 811.


----------



## Mark Lamutt

No wireless keyboard with the 921, and it wouldn't work anyway yet - the USB ports aren't active. I've tried plugging in a USB hard drive and nothing happened either.

Schaefling - you can certainly connect more than one HD receiver to your television, but I'm not sure that the Sammy will output HD via RF, or your television will take HD input from RF. You may need another component video input on your tv to make your idea work.


----------



## tnsprin

Mark Lamutt said:


> No wireless keyboard with the 921, and it wouldn't work anyway yet - the USB ports aren't active. I've tried plugging in a USB hard drive and nothing happened either.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't expect them to accept any USB device. However do you, or someone else with a 921, have a USB keyboard (wireless or otherwise)? If so did you try plugging it in, power on reset, and see if its recognized?


----------



## guruka

Mark Lamutt said:


> No wireless keyboard with the 921, and it wouldn't work anyway yet - the USB ports aren't active. I've tried plugging in a USB hard drive and nothing happened either.



Hmmm... a keyboard is a lot different than mounting a new volume (the hard drive.) Would be interesting to test a USB keyboard.

.....G


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I don't have a USB keyboard to try.


----------



## Tool408

guruka said:


> Has anyone tried plugging a wireless USB keyboard into their 921 yet? (I assume it doesn't come with a keyboard - my 921 hasn't arrived yet.) If so, does it work? And what keyboard did you use?
> 
> Thanx, .....G


Since when has the 921 been "Keyboard compatible"? No such animal.

:nono:


----------



## BobMurdoch

OK, I've had the 921 up and running for 4 days and I've got a few observations....

Please note a couple of things that may bias me a little here.... I hae never had HD content on my TV, so I was blown away by the picture my HD monitor was capable of producing. Also, I don't have a UHF antenna installed yet, so I have not tested any of the OTA channels yet. Finally, I am in teh New York DMA so I am able to get CBS-HD.

1. Picture..... Oh my God. DVI cable may have helped also as I switched to Vivid on my Sony and the colors didn't run like they usually do when I use the Vivid setting. No artifacts, no pixellation. Watched the two AFC playoff games which I had recorded. I started watching one about 2 hours after it had started, and the other about 2.5 hours after it started. I jumped past commercials, jumped past the down time between plays (one jump back and then one jump forward did the trick most times). Caught up to both games by the end as I compresed a game from 3 hours to 1 basically. Kind of interesting as they would bounce back and forth between 4:3 (with graphics mostly) and 16:9 content. Dolby Digital audio was detected and used, but it would bounce back and forth between commercials and breaks to the "studios in New York". Sex in the City not filmed in widescreen or in Dolby Digital on HBO-HD which surprised me. Picture did look better though. Didn't know if this was an HD picture or merely one with much less compression. DiscoveryHD and HD Net have the best looking visual content as Hockey and Basketball games popped off the screen with clarity. 

2. Sound was great also. Not all HD content is DD5.1 sound, but the majority is. Even Trading Spaces on DiscoveryHD is in DD5.1. Interesting to see textures of paint and fabric, where before in SD you could only detect color. No audio dropouts at any time pleasantly surprised me (other than when it was switching between DD and Pro Logic)

3. Spontaneous Reboots. OK, we all know that this version is still pretty unstable. I have been averaging about one reboot a day BUT it was always when a new timer was firing and I was using the remote to manipulate content at the same time. Either the resources get gobbled up and trigger the crash, or the software isn't programmed properly to recover when it reachs that state. Even so, this usually would happen before a show would start and it would recover just as the show was starting. I've padded the timers to be safe.

4. Guide Navigation. You NEED a big screen TV as the Program Content and Channel Labels on the guide are using a smaller font than the 721 had. The good news is that the program info now pretty much all fits in the small plot description window. Also, it is FAST. For those of you used to the slow channel and page up/down scans, you will be blown away by how much faster it is. It is really useful when you want to scan later in the day (I was able to scan through all of the programs coming up in the next week on HDNet REALLLY FAST!)

5. Recording a lot of HD gobbles up hard disk space fast. I had to stop grabbing a lot of HD content as there is really about 23-24 hours of available room for HD shows. SD Content is easy as you will have a hard time filling it up with the 150+ hrs. of room.

6. Overall the unit is pretty solid for what I do with it. Yes, it hiccuped and rebooted on me once a day BUT it also handled like a champ the rest of the time. I did a LOT of jumping and fast forwarding and it handled it all with ease. There is a little bit of a weird effect when you jump forward (think of the McG Charlies Angels effect of freezing time and then moving forward) It freeze frame for .50 seconds and then plays normally sometimes when jumping, especially with HD content. Also, NOT one timer failed to fire for me and I have dozens set up.

7. The guide info DOES specify whether the show is HD or not, so you can discriminate against upconverted shows if you want.

8. HDNet has a lot of shows that will appeal to us hardcore techies. There was a walkthrough at CEDIA 2003 that gave you a "you are there" quality. Lots of Home Theater components, theatre chairs, projectors, screens, and other items were on display. You can also tell that a 30 something male owns the channel as there are lots of HD shows which feature bikinis, exhibit bunnies, and other accoutrements which appeal to all those red blooded American Males watching.

9. HDMovies has mostly older fare, but it is shows that you haven't seen on the other nets for a while. I actually recorded "Gotcha!", an Anthony Edwards film that was a guilty pleasure of my youth, with Linda Fiorentino as a Czech CIA agent from Pittsburgh who teaches a college age Edwards about Europe before the wall came down in Berlin. It's a comedy, by the way. Nevermind, just watch it if you have a chance.

10. I'm a little disappointed in the UHF Remote's signal strength. It may be interference by my other components, but it seems to be less responsive then my old 721 remote. The ergonomics of the new remote are OUTSTANDING though. They are all contoured well, and a blind man could operate it after practicing for a while with some help. It feels much more comfortable than the 721. Some buttons are dimpled, some are bumpy, they are all larger than their predecessors, so it is a joy to work with from a touch and feel standpoint.

11. ESPN HD is great when they have native HD programming on and merely blah when they don't. I can ee why Charlie dragge his feet at first if he had only seen the upconverted content. The ESPN stretch is WAY out of line as well on 4:3 programs that they expand. 

12. DiscoveryHD is simply beautiful. I was never a big PBS guy, but the quality of the pictures, sound, and content make me riveted to the couch as they talk about the International Space Station, Aquariums, and other Science based locations that they are showing. 

13. There are blissfully few artifacts or compression that I can detect. Underwater scenes blow away even DVD quality content. A show with Movie Trailers looked better than it did in the theaters the first time I saw it PLUS it had Dolby Digital Sound. Hopefully, E* will maintain this level of quality. I can see how this could be an issue compared with D*'s compression which I've seen on a few Circuit City monitors as to be more noticeable.

14. Once again, before running the check switch on your receiver, turn it off so that it can download the software update BEFORE you run the check switch. It seems to look at the 119 bird out of the box so you should be fine.

15. I don't know if other receivers have this function, but I stumbled onto it. I was watching a DiscHD short subjects show about sharks when I realized that my kids would have loved it, so I rewinded to the beginning and pressed record. It recorded the show from that point forward. Nice feature. I apologize if any of the other receivers have this but I never noticed it before.

I'm ecstatic with the 921 so far and it has done everything I neede it to do. Within the next month, I will try and get a good antenna and see if I can use the OTA tuner, but I will wait until they stabilize that code a little more before tackling that one.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Nice writeup Bob!


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## BobMurdoch

Thanks, it still feels like Christmas morning to me now that I finally got mine installed!


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## tahoerob

BobMurdoch said:


> OK, I've had the 921 up and running for 4 days and I've got a few observations....
> .............................
> 1....Watched the two AFC playoff games which I had recorded. I started watching one about 2 hours after it had started, and the other about 2.5 hours after it started. I jumped past commercials, jumped past the down time between plays (one jump back and then one jump forward did the trick most times). Caught up to both games by the end as I compresed a game from 3 hours to 1 basically. Kind of interesting as they would bounce back and forth between 4:3 (with graphics mostly) and 16:9 content.
> 
> 2. Sound was great also. Not all HD content is DD5.1 sound, but the majority is.
> 3. Spontaneous Reboots.
> .....................
> 12. DiscoveryHD is simply beautiful. I was never a big PBS guy, but the quality of the pictures, sound, and content make me riveted to the couch as they talk about the International Space Station, Aquariums, and other Science based locations that they are showing.
> 15. I don't know if other receivers have this function, but I stumbled onto it. I was watching a DiscHD short subjects show about sharks when I realized that my kids would have loved it, so I rewinded to the beginning and pressed record. It recorded the show from that point forward. Nice feature. I apologize if any of the other receivers have this but I never noticed it before.
> 
> I'm ecstatic with the 921 so far and it has done everything I neede it to do. Within the next month, I will try and get a good antenna and see if I can use the OTA tuner, but I will wait until they stabilize that code a little more before tackling that one.


I did what you did this weekend for the football games. It is great to watch every play & still spend 1 hr!!!!! Of course replay with DVR is great.
Almost all of HDNet content is DD5.1
I have not had the reboot problem.
I only need to reboot by choice after messing around with OTA channels, but only if I want to watch one.
With Discovery HD, it is hard not to try to record EVERYTHING!!
All the DVRs should allow you to do what you discovered. As long as you were on the channel from the beginning, rewind & record.
Definitely get a rotor & preamp as well as the largest antenna your roof can support!!


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## Throwbot

Great write up Bob, seems you are well pleased, think I will be also.
One day , if ever, soon, maybe.


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## bytre

>> All the DVRs should allow you to do what you discovered. As long as you were on the channel from the beginning, rewind & record.

Not the 7100 / 7200.


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## Amelgati

What is a DPP44 unit and what do they do? Are they available?



Does the 921 really have to have both satellite tuners connected?

I tried this...it wasn't pretty. You can't do a check switch if only one of the tuners is connected. If you have no way of running another line to where your 921 will go, then you'll have to wait for the DPP44 switch before getting a 921. There's no other way around it because the 2 tuner operation is integrated into so many different aspects of the programming it's not feasibly possible to run this box on one tuner only. That's the way it is.


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## Mark Lamutt

The DPP44 is a new switch that isn't yet available. It will take 4 satellite inputs, provide 4 tuner outputs, and will be able to use DPP diplexors to "split" 1 tuner output to run to 2 tuners.


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## Schaefling

Would there be any signal loss with the use of the DP444 which "splits" one tuner output to run two tuners? Just curious.

I got my 921 last friday and it runs pretty well except for one glaring flaw. I have given up trying to watch or record OTA channels either analog or HD. I can't seem to get the OTA channels to lock and once when I lost signal to one of the OTA channels my 921 crashed and it took over an hour with DISH technical support to finally get my 921 successfully re-booted. The owner of the retail company which installed the 921 is having very similar problems with his own 921. Both of our experiences only reinforce what everyone else seems to be saying - namely that OTA channels are very glitchy right now with the 921 in its current iteration.

BTW, I was able to get a second line for my 921 through the use of DP 34 switches. I would suggest you look into this Amellgeti althouh it looks like you have to use two DP34 switches and both of your lines running to the 921 must use the same DP34 switch.


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## lpcavs

Will the new switch with multiple outputs allow me to keep my Dish 6000 and add a Tivo or ReplayTV without having to upgrade to the 921? Due to the cost, I would give up the ability to tivo HD and just use that function for SD. Dish has always told me I can not split the dish output in order to do that, but it sounds like the new switch would accomplish that for me. I am also trying to evaluate whether my 6000 has value on ebay or otherwise to offset the 921 cost. Thanks for all your input on this forum. It is very helpful.


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## Slordak

lpcavs said:


> Will the new switch with multiple outputs allow me to keep my Dish 6000 and add a Tivo or ReplayTV without having to upgrade to the 921? Due to the cost, I would give up the ability to tivo HD and just use that function for SD. Dish has always told me I can not split the dish output in order to do that, but it sounds like the new switch would accomplish that for me. I am also trying to evaluate whether my 6000 has value on ebay or otherwise to offset the 921 cost. Thanks for all your input on this forum. It is very helpful.


What exactly is the question? The line running to/from the satellite dish carries digital satellite signals which are decoded by the receiver. It does not carry analog information, or information which can simply be tuned by a standard cable tuner in a ReplayTV or the like. The new switching / splitting technology (DishPro Plus) is for Dish Network receivers, not for other types of devices.

However, please note that once the signal is decoded by the receiver, it is then a standard analog signal (passed out over composite, component, S-Video, or re-modulated to RF on channel 3 or 4). You can output this signal to your television, to a VCR, to a stereo receiver, to the inputs on a Tivo or ReplayTV, etc. etc. You still only have one tuner on a single tuner Dish receiver, but you can certainly send the channel to more than one device.


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## rlj00

Thanks 



Mark Lamutt said:


> *Dish DVR-921, Page 4*
> Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
> ©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.
> 
> *Operation of the 921, part 2*
> 
> Now, back to the menu. Option 2 on the main menu "Staying in Touch" brings up the Caller ID History. I'd show you a screen shot of this, but I don't have caller ID on my land line&#8230;
> 
> 
> 
> So, on to option 4. The preferences menu is where you define favorite lists, view and change your preferences, language settings, dolby digital settings, DVHS DishWire settings and closed caption settings. As you can see, the DishWire feature has not yet been activated. Let's take a look at the View Preferences option.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the options that are set from this screen. I really wish they'd add the Timer Icon Popup option to the 5xx series of receivers. Here's page 2:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to talk about the transparent guide and display. I think it's a really great idea, except it just doesn't work very well. I don't have a screenshot of it because it just doesn't look good yet. I think it has the potential to look really great in future software updates, but it's not there yet in my opinion. This is also the screen that you can adjust your horizontal and vertical screen position.
> 
> 
> 
> The Favorites setup, Language setup, and DD setup are standard screens just like the other receivers. No changes, other than the look of the screens.
> 
> Here's the Closed Captioning screen. As you can see, lots of different options.
> 
> 
> 
> And here's a shot of the closed captioning working on HBO-HD.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, back to the main menu and selecting the Locks option brings us to the Locks screen. Same options as the other receivers.
> 
> 
> 
> Now let's take a look at the System Setup options from the Main Menu. Here's the System Info screen option, accessable from the menu here. The system information screen is also accessible from theSysInfo button on the front of the 921. Note, there is no SysInfo button on the remote.
> 
> 
> 
> Software version L142 will not be the software version of the 921 when it ships. It's a pre-release beta version that I am testing. Overall it's pretty stable, but there are still a few issues that need to be fixed before shipping the 921 to the public.
> 
> 
> 
> I like the look of the point dish screen. It's easier to navigate than on the 5xx series receivers.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the telephone setup screen. In the future, Dish may require all receivers be connected to a phone line in an attempt to cut down on signal theft. This'll be a tough requirement for me to meet, as I currently have 3 dish receivers sitting in the same location, and don't have a phone jack anywhere close to that location. My setup is in my finished basement, so running a new phone line through the walls isn't an option. So, when the day comes that I have to plug in the phone line to all of my receivers, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Hopefully, Dish can come up with a solution to this problem. I'm all for cutting down on signal theft - the thieves deserve to be caught and shut down. Enough with the rant&#8230;
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the standard VCR setup option. Note - this isn't where you will set up a DVHS vcr for digital recording of high definition material via DishWire. That option is not yet enabled, but Dish has told me that it will be enabled as soon as possible. They are very aware of our desire to transfer HD material off of the 921 to DVHS.
> 
> 
> 
> The Diagnostic tests screen is where you test your phone line connection. There is also an option called Hard Drive that isn't yet enabled, and I have no idea what it will test if and when it is enabled. Factory Defaults will reset your receiver settings to the default settings. Software Update shows the status of any software update you are receiving, as shown earlier in this review.


----------



## sirius_rich

Well, I finally received my 921. It was installed on the 20th of this month. I had to leave town on business and returned today all excited about the 921 and HDTV. I must admit the HD PQ is stunning. I wish I could comment on the many features of the 921, but I can't. All I can get is the signal and no other features.

I was on the telephone with DISH all morning booting and rebooting to no avail. End result the unit will not take a software upgrade. It was shipped with v. L052. I don't remember reading about that version over the past months while waiting for the 921. I was informed that I would have to ship this unit back to DISH after they send me a replacement. Rather disappointing this morning. I cannot even set up the OTA channels. I hope this all gets resolved before the Super Bowl.

I suppose my question is, has this hard drive failure happened before where a replacement was necessary? I thought I read in this thread it has but could not find the post. Is this a common occurrence?


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## Redster

sirius_rich said:


> Well, I finally received my 921. It was installed on the 20th of this month. I had to leave town on business and returned today all excited about the 921 and HDTV. I must admit the HD PQ is stunning. I wish I could comment on the many features of the 921, but I can't. All I can get is the signal and no other features.
> 
> I was on the telephone with DISH all morning booting and rebooting to no avail. End result the unit will not take a software upgrade. It was shipped with v. L052. I don't remember reading about that version over the past months while waiting for the 921. I was informed that I would have to ship this unit back to DISH after they send me a replacement. Rather disappointing this morning. I cannot even set up the OTA channels. I hope this all gets resolved before the Super Bowl.
> 
> I suppose my question is, has this hard drive failure happened before where a replacement was necessary? I thought I read in this thread it has but could not find the post. Is this a common occurrence?


I had a failure with my 1st 921. Everything was working fine,, I was watching a movie on the HDNMV channel when it popped up,, got dish on the phone and nothing would fix it,, they had a replacement out to me in 4 days. So far so good


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## BobMurdoch

sirius_rich said:


> Well, I finally received my 921. It was installed on the 20th of this month. I had to leave town on business and returned today all excited about the 921 and HDTV. I must admit the HD PQ is stunning. I wish I could comment on the many features of the 921, but I can't. All I can get is the signal and no other features.
> 
> I was on the telephone with DISH all morning booting and rebooting to no avail. End result the unit will not take a software upgrade. It was shipped with v. L052. I don't remember reading about that version over the past months while waiting for the 921. I was informed that I would have to ship this unit back to DISH after they send me a replacement. Rather disappointing this morning. I cannot even set up the OTA channels. I hope this all gets resolved before the Super Bowl.
> 
> I suppose my question is, has this hard drive failure happened before where a replacement was necessary? I thought I read in this thread it has but could not find the post. Is this a common occurrence?


Mine fought taking the upgrade at first as well.

According to the CSR I talked to, set the software to factory default and then shut it off. This broke the logjam and the download started. (I had run check switch first and the CSR said that that sometimes caused a problem. Just set the point dish screen to 119, make sure you are getting a decent signal strength, and then power off.


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## ggw2000

Well, Wife just called and Fedex just dropped off 921. Had her take it out of box to make sure she'll be all warmed up when I get home from work (921 not wife) . Crossing fingers that I got a good one. Will voice my experiences with unit after testing etc.. Gerry


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## BobMurdoch

ggw2000 said:


> Well, Wife just called and Fedex just dropped off 921. Had her take it out of box to make sure she'll be all warmed up when I get home from work (921 not wife) . Crossing fingers that I got a good one. Will voice my experiences with unit after testing etc.. Gerry


Aargh! Bad joke coming.... unable....to... resist.....

BWA HA HA!

Hmmm. Ironic. In regards to the wife usually you warm things up by putting it in the box. :rolling:

-Deep remorse sets in- :blush:

I apologize that that last comment was in poor taste. It won't happen again.

Unless another easy joke gets thrown over the middle of the plate and I can't resist taking a swing at it.


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## Richard King

You should be ashamed. If you do that again I will make you return your 921.


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## BobMurdoch

Richard, I'm sorry, I haven't been the same since you told me you were in the recording studio with Sheila E. in her heyday.

The Glamorous Life indeed.....


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Does the 921 have th same issues with channel 1.1 like on the 811 receiver? Sorry if this has been addressed already. I have an 811 receiver and can't watch my local CBS affiliate because they use channel 1.1 and the 811 receiver programmed channel 1.1 for use with the 2 useless inputs on the back of the receiver. Can someone please advise?


----------



## jsanders

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> Does the 921 have th same issues with channel 1.1 like on the 811 receiver? Sorry if this has been addressed already. I have an 811 receiver and can't watch my local CBS affiliate because they use channel 1.1 and the 811 receiver programmed channel 1.1 for use with the 2 useless inputs on the back of the receiver. Can someone please advise?


On the 921, you can watch a composite input in the back by switching to channel 000. I suspect channel 1.1 would map to a normal channel, however, since none of the channels in my neighborhood do that, I can't say for sure. By the way, channel 000 is useful if you want to run your DVD player through it for Video Essentials, while the shaprness can't be set with this, the color balance and contrast can, which is very useful to close the loop between the 921 and the HD input on the TV.


----------



## Crumb_Snatcher

Jsanders,

If you wanted to configure the HD inputs with Video Essentials, why would you use the composite inputs on the back of the 921? Doesn't make sense to me. Please clarify. I would connect the dvd player via dvi input to the tv or Component if your tv doesn't have dvi or you don't have a dvi capable dvd player. Once the input is calibrated, then you remove the dvd and switch it with the 921, correct?


----------



## guruka

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> Jsanders,
> 
> If you wanted to configure the HD inputs with Video Essentials, why would you use the composite inputs on the back of the 921? Doesn't make sense to me. Please clarify. I would connect the dvd player via dvi input to the tv or Component if your tv doesn't have dvi or you don't have a dvi capable dvd player. Once the input is calibrated, then you remove the dvd and switch it with the 921, correct?


Nope. DVD is 480p out and you need to calibrate 1080i and/or 720p for HD. Can't use video essentials for that. If you don't have access to a video signal generator, then HD Net broadcasts a set of good 1080i test patterns (usually around 6 AM) and you can PVR those and then play them back.

.....G


----------



## willy

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> Does the 921 have th same issues with channel 1.1 like on the 811 receiver? Sorry if this has been addressed already. I have an 811 receiver and can't watch my local CBS affiliate because they use channel 1.1 and the 811 receiver programmed channel 1.1 for use with the 2 useless inputs on the back of the receiver. Can someone please advise?


Channel 1 is not a valid channel. Check with your local station-- have you ever seen a tv come with a "channel 1" preset? Most tv's wont let you even program this in. STB's and HDTV's arent required to recieve channel 1.


----------



## jsanders

Crumb_Snatcher said:


> Jsanders,
> 
> If you wanted to configure the HD inputs with Video Essentials, why would you use the composite inputs on the back of the 921? Doesn't make sense to me. Please clarify. I would connect the dvd player via dvi input to the tv or Component if your tv doesn't have dvi or you don't have a dvi capable dvd player. Once the input is calibrated, then you remove the dvd and switch it with the 921, correct?


A 480p signal is different than a 1080i signal coming in, they have to be calibrated separately. TVs usually have different settings, mine has normal, cinema, and vivid, for example. I calibrated normal to work with 1080i, and cinema to work with 480p.

If you put the DVD composite out into the back of the 921, and switch the 921 to HD output, it is upconverting the 480i signal from the composite input on the DVD player to 1080i. This closes the loop so to speak with between the 921 and the TV. For instance, the color balance output on my 6000 is different than the color balance on the 921, and doing this is about the best way to determine what it should be.

And yes, HDNet does broadcast Test Patterns for 10 minutes at 5am PST once a week. Unfortunately, the patterns aren't as useful as Video Essentials. The color bar does not have a split at the bottom, which makes it difficult to judge color and tint from bars half way across the screen. There are no patterns that are good for setting brightness and contrast. It is nice they have a convergence pattern. I use the last pattern, the overscan pattern to look at overscan, and the sharpness control to avoid the "high frequency peaking". Doing the upconversion from Video Essentials is not useful for doing sharpness. Ideally, it is better to set the color balance based on test patterns that come from bits on the hard disk, however, Video Essentials has a better pattern for that at the moment. Yes, it does work given that the composite input is not biased and the DVD player output is not biased somehow. I have a good DVD player, the RP91, which I'm not too worried about. I definetly use Video Essentials to set brightness and contrast.


----------



## JoeQ

jsanders said:


> If you put the DVD composite out into the back of the 921, and switch the 921 to HD output, it is upconverting the 480i signal from the composite input on the DVD player to 1080i.


Interesting, I did not know that it did this.

Has anyone tried upconverting their composite out from their PC's video card with this?

I am wondering how the windows desktop looks. 
Normally S-video or composite out from the video card to the TV itself looks like h***.
I would just try it but it's quite a bit of work to get to the back of my equipment rack.

If it looks good then I will go to the trouble.

One can go the route of using Powerstrip but that is a HTPC discussion for another type forum.

Thanks,
Joe


----------



## jsanders

JoeQ said:


> Interesting, I did not know that it did this.
> 
> Has anyone tried upconverting their composite out from their PC's video card with this?
> 
> I am wondering how the windows desktop looks.
> Normally S-video or composite out from the video card to the TV itself looks like h***.
> I would just try it but it's quite a bit of work to get to the back of my equipment rack.


A bad signal that was upconverted still looks bad, no doubt about that. The only purpose for doing Video Essentials is to calibrate the brightness/contrast, and color/tint. This can be done because the picture quality doesn't need to be stellar, it just needs to be used to calibrate the HD input.


----------



## msnyder

I have two questions:

1. How do I get a 921? I am a current customer; have been on the Digital Home Plan for 2 years, no current contract (Expired last year).

2. Does the 921 come with a DVI cable?


----------



## guruka

msnyder said:


> I have two questions:
> 
> 1. How do I get a 921? I am a current customer; have been on the Digital Home Plan for 2 years, no current contract (Expired last year).
> 
> 2. Does the 921 come with a DVI cable?


1. From a Dish reseller/dealer. I got mine from www.satelliteone.com

2. Nope. It comes with a component cable. You can get a DVI-D cable from many online sources including EBay and www.cablestogo.com

.....G


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## David_Levin

guruka said:


> You can get a DVI-D cable from many online sources including EBay and www.cablestogo.com
> 
> .....G


Better yet: www.cablesamerica.com

Same store, same product, much better price. For example:

3m Dual Link DVI cable item 26942
cablestogo = 29.99
cablesamerica = 16.75

If you need a 10m go to:
www.lindy.com


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## guruka

David_Levin said:


> Better yet: www.cablesamerica.com
> 
> Same store, same product, much better price. For example:
> 
> 3m Dual Link DVI cable item 26942
> cablestogo = 29.99
> cablesamerica = 16.75
> 
> If you need a 10m go to:
> www.lindy.com


Thanks for that. cablestogo was $10 cheaper when I bought my DVI cable for my 921 back in March 2003. Of course, I had to wait till January 2004 to see the 921. :lol:


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## msnyder

guruka said:


> 1. From a Dish reseller/dealer. I got mine from www.satelliteone.com
> 
> 2. Nope. It comes with a component cable. You can get a DVI-D cable from many online sources including EBay and www.cablestogo.com
> 
> .....G


 Well it seems that EVERYONE is out of stock, I did have one reseller offer to hold my $999 while they order me one. Wasn't that nice of them. In any case, does anyone know what type of DVI cable I need for my Mitsubishi SilverPlus? The spec sheet says it's HDCP, is that DVI-A, DVI-D, or DVI-I?


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## BobMurdoch

DVI-D is all you need. The 921 only passes the video feed through the output so the DVI-A and DVI-I will not be supported.


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## guruka

msnyder said:


> Well it seems that EVERYONE is out of stock, I did have one reseller offer to hold my $999 while they order me one. Wasn't that nice of them. In any case, does anyone know what type of DVI cable I need for my Mitsubishi SilverPlus? The spec sheet says it's HDCP, is that DVI-A, DVI-D, or DVI-I?


You need a DVI-D dual-link cable. Good prices at the links previously posted in this thread.

.....G


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## JoeQ

msnyder said:


> Well it seems that EVERYONE is out of stock


Did you try dishking.com?

I called them (very friendly people) on January 14 and gave them my credit card # which they said would only be charged when it shipped.

They could not guarantee when that would be since he told me they had none in stock when I called but expected more in a few days.

I received a 921 from them on January 26.

Give them a call and talk to them.

Joe


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## jsanders

BobMurdoch said:


> I think it is more for buggy reasons rather than any copyright concerns. The DVR itself runs afoul of most studios' idea that consumers "contract" with them implicitly imply that we are to sit slavishly in front of their ads in exchange for the shows they produce. When we skip the ads we "break" that contract. (Not my words.... I think it was a Time Warner exec that floated that one but I'm not sure)
> 
> E* is NOT holding up the feature for that reason. I'm sure it is purely a time saving situation, until they can get the most serious bugs squashed first.


Well, I guess the viewing public in general doesn't hold up to that contract. That is why we hear expressions such as, "Don't touch that dial" eminating from the TV set. Commercial time is also known as time for a bathroom brake, or time to get some snacks. Commercials can be pretty useful at strategic times! :hurah:

You don't need a PVR to break that. Just channel surf, get some snacks, or use the restroom and then come back!


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## jimconk1

HI and i hope this is correct forum for my question, if not sorry. I just purchased 50 inch hd plasma tv, want to upgrade to hi def. I have the regular pvr (501) now so I want the 921 and am searching for it now. My question is what else is required? I have the dish 500, so do i need additional dish? Do I need antenna to pick up local channels? I have called dish many times and seem to be getting mixed signals. Can someone please help. I am in Chicago area if that matters. Thanks in advance for any info. I am out today looking for the 921.


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## tahoerob

jimconk1 said:


> HI and i hope this is correct forum for my question, if not sorry. I just purchased 50 inch hd plasma tv, want to upgrade to hi def. I have the regular pvr (501) now so I want the 921 and am searching for it now. My question is what else is required? I have the dish 500, so do i need additional dish? Do I need antenna to pick up local channels? I have called dish many times and seem to be getting mixed signals. Can someone please help. I am in Chicago area if that matters. Thanks in advance for any info. I am out today looking for the 921.


For the 921, you will need a SECOND line run from the Dish 500 (maybe a different switch is needed) to the 921 since it has & requires two tuners. You do NOT need a second dish unless you qualify for CBS-HD which is on 61.5. All other HD is via Dish 500 on 110 sat.
If you want any OTA local HD (ie. DTV=Digital TV) you need an antenna. If you are close enough to the broadcast towers (~<20 miles) a TV top antenna might work. Farther, you need a rooftop (attic might work). Also, the farther away you may need a preamp to boodt the capture signal from antenna.
Check out: http://www.nab.org/newsroom/issues/digitaltv/dtvstations.asp and scroll down to the Chicago market to find the major DTV in your area. Most should be UHF (ie RF or DTV channel is >14). HOWEVER, looking at your area CBS is VHF digital channel 3). If you do qualify for CBS-HD via Dish, then get a UHF only antenna & get CBS off Dish.
Check out: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/ for headings & miles from your location.
Goto the other 2 links on the page to get your long\lat for house & magnetic declination to plug into form. It will give you info on available DTV within any given mile range. (check at least 100 miles!)
The 2 best antennas are the Channel Master 4228 or Winegard HD9095. They have the the highest antenna gain out there. These are UHF only antennas. Unfortunately, UHF\VHF antennas have weaker gains.
If most of the channels you want are in close in headings than a rotor is not needed. However, if any are more than 30 deg from majority you might need a rotor. The above antennas are very DIRECTIONAL.


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## guruka

I live 58 miles north of the Albuquerque towers and although I can lock all the local stations, one of them is pretty weak and marginal (KOAT - the ABC affiliate). I have a Winegard Platinum HD8200p antenna on the roof with a Winegard Chromestar AP-8800 mast mounted pre-amp.

I am wondering if I can add another UHF only antenna to the mast (perhaps the Channel Master 4228) and then combine the RF output from that antenna with the Winegard and feed them both into the pre-amp.

What equipment do I need to do this? Do you think it will improve gain on the weak station? Any other ideas?

.....G


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## ggw2000

tahoerob said:


> For the 921, you will need a SECOND line run from the Dish 500 (maybe a different switch is needed) to the 921 since it has & requires two tuners. You do NOT need a second dish unless you qualify for CBS-HD which is on 61.5. All other HD is via Dish 500 on 110 sat.
> If you want any OTA local HD (ie. DTV=Digital TV) you need an antenna. If you are close enough to the broadcast towers (~<20 miles) a TV top antenna might work. Farther, you need a rooftop (attic might work). Also, the farther away you may need a preamp to boodt the capture signal from antenna.
> Check out: http://www.nab.org/newsroom/issues/digitaltv/dtvstations.asp and scroll down to the Chicago market to find the major DTV in your area. Most should be UHF (ie RF or DTV channel is >14). HOWEVER, looking at your area CBS is VHF digital channel 3). If you do qualify for CBS-HD via Dish, then get a UHF only antenna & get CBS off Dish.
> Check out: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/ for headings & miles from your location.
> Goto the other 2 links on the page to get your long\lat for house & magnetic declination to plug into form. It will give you info on available DTV within any given mile range. (check at least 100 miles!)
> The 2 best antennas are the Channel Master 4228 or Winegard HD9095. They have the the highest antenna gain out there. These are UHF only antennas. Unfortunately, UHF\VHF antennas have weaker gains.
> If most of the channels you want are in close in headings than a rotor is not needed. However, if any are more than 30 deg from majority you might need a rotor. The above antennas are very DIRECTIONAL.


Tahoerob, now that my 2nd 921 (replacement) is coming tomorrow, if everthing works out I will give my son who lives in Clayton, NC (SE side of raleigh) my 6000U. I ran the coordinates with your help and it looks like he is about 7 miles from all the towers. Would a set top antenna work for him? If so what make/model would you suggest? All the channels are UHF (above 14) as you stated so I guess he would only need a UHF model. I don't think that the "development" rules will allow him to put up a roof antenna and at the pitch of his roof he won't get me up there :lol: . Thanks, Gerry


----------



## bmgriggs

Hi...I'm not trying to sound cheap, but I can't even find this box for the $999 Dish's website says it should be. It seems my local retailer wants $500 down on deposit to get on the waiting list and then the rest of the money ($1249 total) whenever they can get it in stock and it's my turn. Calls to Dish Network have been more than futile....they don't know if it will be available through them directly, if it will always cost close to $1000, and even why some retailers aren't following the suggested prices. One Dish lady actually told me that I was welcome to try Direct TV if I was that cheap. My local Dish Retailer also wants to sell me a OTA antenna for $299 and install it for $99. This is getting pretty expensive for HDTV. I live about 35 miles from all the tv towers and they are all in one main area (give or take 10 degrees). My local ABC HD station is on channel 9. I am just really confused what I should do: wait for the price of the 921 to come down (not knowing if it ever will); buy a OTA antenna (but which one?) and buy a non-dish plain HDTV receiver (missing out on DVR capabilties that I have grown to love); or just not care, save some money and continue watching regular TV on my $2500 HDTV (which is pointless since I bought the TV to upgrade). Any help from anybody would be much appreciated.


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## ggw2000

bmgriggs said:


> Hi...I'm not trying to sound cheap, but I can't even find this box for the $999 Dish's website says it should be. It seems my local retailer wants $500 down on deposit to get on the waiting list and then the rest of the money ($1249 total) whenever they can get it in stock and it's my turn. Calls to Dish Network have been more than futile....they don't know if it will be available through them directly, if it will always cost close to $1000, and even why some retailers aren't following the suggested prices. One Dish lady actually told me that I was welcome to try Direct TV if I was that cheap. My local Dish Retailer also wants to sell me a OTA antenna for $299 and install it for $99. This is getting pretty expensive for HDTV. I live about 35 miles from all the tv towers and they are all in one main area (give or take 10 degrees). My local ABC HD station is on channel 9. I am just really confused what I should do: wait for the price of the 921 to come down (not knowing if it ever will); buy a OTA antenna (but which one?) and buy a non-dish plain HDTV receiver (missing out on DVR capabilties that I have grown to love); or just not care, save some money and continue watching regular TV on my $2500 HDTV (which is pointless since I bought the TV to upgrade). Any help from anybody would be much appreciated.


If you are looking for HD but do not want to spend the $1k (later when you can find one for actual retail- demand drives price!!) and don't really need the hard drive solution, why not go with the HD811? You can get HD off the satellite and it has a builtin OTA tuner for HD local channels with an external antenna. The price is $399 at dishdepot.com.. Or you can find the older 6000U unit with the optional 8VSB module and do the same....


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## David_Levin

bmgriggs:

Are you a current Dish Network sub? You should be able to get the 811 for $199 is you call and ask. Problem is they are currently also wait listed.

You shouldn't need a $299 OTA antenna. Radio Shack has a UHF antenna thats less then $25 (Radio Shack UHF Antenna). Get a wall kit+mast and install it your self. It's not that hard, just remember to ground it (ground wire to a water pipe).

You should also run the coax through a ground block before it enters the house (and ground that too). Around 50% of the Radio Shack clerks are smart enough to help you with what you need.

The current availability of the 921 is annoying. Get on some wait lists and hold out - the supply will (eventually) get better.

PS Zenith makes an atsc over-the-air PVR. Only has an 80 gig hard drive, but it's out there.

PS The 921 requires a 2nd cable run for sat and possibly a 3rd run for over the air. You may also need a new swtich if you don't have any ports available. Read up - you need to do your homework if you're going to install a 921 yourself.


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## clapple

bmgriggs,

I would try a Silver Sensor antenna, at about $30 at CC, before doing an antenna install. You can always take it back. Mine works fine.


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## tahoerob

ggw2000 said:


> Tahoerob, now that my 2nd 921 (replacement) is coming tomorrow, if everthing works out I will give my son who lives in Clayton, NC (SE side of raleigh) my 6000U. I ran the coordinates with your help and it looks like he is about 7 miles from all the towers. Would a set top antenna work for him? If so what make/model would you suggest? All the channels are UHF (above 14) as you stated so I guess he would only need a UHF model. I don't think that the "development" rules will allow him to put up a roof antenna and at the pitch of his roof he won't get me up there :lol: . Thanks, Gerry


I have not used any set top antennas but the Silver Sensor is mentioned alot.
At 7 miles, if he has descent LOS (no huge buildings next door), he should get all channels easily. He might not need a preamp! (lucky dude) I am 65 miles from my main ones & get most with a rooftop one.
Check this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3365617#post3365617post3365617 and search for info on "Rules". There has been a nice discussion the last 1-2 months with links regarding development antennas. Basically, any development CANNOT stop a renter or home owner from placing an antenna...period.
Also, I found these 2 links:
http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## bmgriggs

Hi...I can run a second dish cable and I have two satellite dishes along with a simple Radio Shack antenna out on my back wall. Will this antenna work? I bought it about 5 years ago and don't remember anything about it being HDTV back then. I could get the 811, but then my DVR capabilities would be gone, right? Guess i'm just upset with the price of 921 more than anything....maybe it will come down when Direct TV and the new company (Vroom?) come out with their new DVR/HDTV receivers.


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## tahoerob

bmgriggs said:


> Hi...I can run a second dish cable and I have two satellite dishes along with a simple Radio Shack antenna out on my back wall. Will this antenna work? I bought it about 5 years ago and don't remember anything about it being HDTV back then. I could get the 811, but then my DVR capabilities would be gone, right? Guess i'm just upset with the price of 921 more than anything....maybe it will come down when Direct TV and the new company (Vroom?) come out with their new DVR/HDTV receivers.


Any old antenna will work. Most older ones are combo VHF\UHF but will pull in HDTV fine on UHF, depending on how close you are to towers.
Check out this: http://www.channelmaster.com/pdf/AntMatrix.pdf

CHeck the Antenna Gain column. You may want to look at pictures of their Crossfire or Advantage lines to see what looks close to yours now.

As for price. If you got a dual tuner 721 (~$450), and 811 (~200) and a D-VHS (~$700), you are still coming out ahead at $999.
You could do a 510 & a 811 for a DVR & HD but no HD DVR.
I find that I watch almost ONLY HD now. My DVR has about 12 hours of recorded HD now!!!! Despite the early adopter software bugs, I am quite PLEASED. GET ONE!!!!!!!!!!


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## David_Levin

There's no reason not to try the antenna you have and see what it does. If it's pointed the right direction and the broadcast is full power you'll probably be ok.

In Denver they are doing low power only from a different location. The dedicated UHF does a better job then a combo antenna. And, it's smaller, so less obtrusive on the roof (to get line of site).


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## BarryO

ggw2000 said:


> I don't think that the "development" rules will allow him to put up a roof antenna and at the pitch of his roof he won't get me up there :lol:


As Rob alluded to, the 1996 Telecommunications Act made most local restrictions and CC&R's on antennas and DBS dishes void and unenforcable. Section 207 of this federal law reads:



> Within 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Commission shall, pursuant to Section 303 of the Communications Act, promulgate regulations to prohibit restrictions that impair a viewer's ability to receive video programming services through devices designed for over-the-air reception of television broadcast signals, multichannel multipoint distribution service, or direct broadcast satellite services.


As noted by the FCC:



> The 1996 Act's direction to the Commission to prohibit restrictions that impair reception of over-the-air video programming services promotes the primary objective of the Communications Act, to "make available, so far as possible, to all the people of the United States . . . a rapid, efficient, Nation-wide, and world-wide wire and radio communication service with adequate facilities at reasonable charges."


In other words, national telecommunication policy matters more than narrow-minded aesthetic sensibilies of some Homeowners' Associations.

The 1996 Act also largely deregulated cable rates; one intent of the OTARD Rule is to ensure competition is widely avaiable to preclude cable companies from have monopoly power.

The FCC fact sheet is at http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## rooneyman

Until last week, when dish turned off hbo/sho on 61.5 (they assured me repeatedly that the change was backwardly compatable, and specifically with the 5000 receiver), I was watching through the RF modulated output of my dishnet 5000 receivers (with the HD modulator accessory). They ran to the RF input of my STB's, which, for a variety of reasons, worked quite well. 

Could you comment specifically on the 921's rf output capability: will it pass or modulate HD on the channel 3/4 rf out, or is it only 480i?


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## tnsprin

rooneyman said:


> ...
> Could you comment specifically on the 921's rf output capability: will it pass or modulate HD on the channel 3/4 rf out, or is it only 480i?


480i only.

The dish does have a firewire, but it is currently inactive. It is expected that they will eventually activate it for connection of OUTPUT to select DVHS recorders.

HD outputs are component cable, DVI-I. There are adapters off the DVI that can do RGB if you need that.


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## Bleeding Edge

This is my first post on this board which I have been lurking for awhile. I must say that it has ben most informative. 

I have been considering purchasing the 921. My main concern about the 921 is the inability to natively pass thru the signal. If this is correct, then it would seem to be very user unfriendly to non-techies. Even for techies, it would seem to be a nuisance.

Is anyone on this board aware of whether the soon to be released DSS HDTV PVR will have this limitation? This would be the deciding factor for me.

As much as I have liked Dish and my 501, I am ready to abandon ship over this single issue. Please advise.


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## jsanders

Bleeding Edge said:


> My main concern about the 921 is the inability to natively pass thru the signal. If this is correct, then it would seem to be very user unfriendly to non-techies. Even for techies, it would seem to be a nuisance.


I need to clarify what yo mean by this.... Are you saying you want 720p to come out as 720p, and 1080i to come out as 1080i, and 480i to come out as 480i and so forth? It currently converts the signal to whatever you want, 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. This is good for us that have TVs that don't do 720p. It is very easy to figure out how to use in that respect. We have made a feature request to have a pass thru so that 720p goes out as 720p, and 1080i coms out as 1080i and so forth. With everything, that will take a while to sort out...


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## guruka

Bleeding Edge said:


> I have been considering purchasing the 921. My main concern about the 921 is the inability to natively pass thru the signal. If this is correct, then it would seem to be very user unfriendly to non-techies. Even for techies, it would seem to be a nuisance.


Just to clarify jsanders reply to you. . . the answer is yes. The 921 will pass the signal in its native format. IOW, you can watch 480i as 480i (or scale it up to 480p, 720p or 1080i using the 921's internal scaler.) Just so, you can watch 720p as 720p and 1080i as 1080i. You don't HAVE to use the 921's scaler if you don't want to. Does that answer your question?

I think what jsanders was saying is that there's no "passthru" setting per se (yet.) You simply set the output to whatever you wish.

.....G


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## BarryO

Bleeding Edge said:


> My main concern about the 921 is the inability to natively pass thru the signal. If this is correct, then it would seem to be very user unfriendly to non-techies. Even for techies, it would seem to be a nuisance.


You'll have to explain what, exactly, you mean by this. As far as I can tell, a "native pass thru" mode would be something nearly incomprehensible to non-techies. As described by jsanders, "native pass-thru" would only be for very advanced users, those few folks that have multi-sync projectors that accept 480i, 480p, 1080i, _and_ 720p, and who think they can tell the difference between doing this, and letting the 921 do the scaling.

I would think most non-techies just want to plug the receiver and TV together, and have it work. the easiest way to do this is to set them to HD mode, and leave it there.


----------



## jsanders

guruka said:


> Just to clarify jsanders reply to you. . . the answer is yes. The 921 will pass the signal in its native format. IOW, you can watch 480i as 480i (or scale it up to 480p, 720p or 1080i using the 921's internal scaler.) Just so, you can watch 720p as 720p and 1080i as 1080i. You don't HAVE to use the 921's scaler if you don't want to. Does that answer your question?
> 
> I think what jsanders was saying is that there's no "passthru" setting per se (yet.) You simply set the output to whatever you wish.
> 
> .....G


Thanks for the clarification Guruka! That is exactly what I meant plus some!


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## Bleeding Edge

Thanks all for your replies.

If you are watching a SD broadcast and your output is set to HD, will the output be stretched to fill the screen? Or will it display in 4:3 mode with black bars on both sides?

Also, if the 921 scalar does the conversion from SD to HD, I thought I recalled seeing that the output picture quality would be less than stellar.

I haven't yet purchased my HDTV. Ideally, the HDTV could do the conversion better and automatically. Maybe this is unrealistic. Before making any purchases I want to be sure all the pieces fit comfortably.

Also, what is the capability of the soon to be released DSS HDTV PVR? Has anyone seen the specs?


----------



## guruka

Bleeding Edge said:


> If you are watching a SD broadcast and your output is set to HD, will the output be stretched to fill the screen? Or will it display in 4:3 mode with black bars on both sides?


As you wish. You can display in 4x3 with gray bars or black bars, or you can stretch to fill the full 16x9 display. Currently the stretch mode in the 921 software overstretches (this is on the fix list and may be fixed in the next rev.) so if I want to stretch I use my TV to do the stretching since it does a better job.



Bleeding Edge said:


> Also, if the 921 scalar does the conversion from SD to HD, I thought I recalled seeing that the output picture quality would be less than stellar.


"Stellar" hmmm... The scaler in the 921 is not as good as a high-end external scaler, nor is it as good as the scalers built in to some TVs (but better than others.) But, sheesh, it's satellite 480i SD material (which, IMHO is never 'stellar' under any conditions) so unless you are more critical than I am (and I have a pretty critical eye), you will hardly notice any difference with such an input signal. I can barely tell the difference between 480p and 1080i scaled up by the 921 and 108i scaled up by my TV. There is a difference, but it's moot when the source signal is what it is in this case.

.....G


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## BarryO

> But, sheesh, it's satellite 480i SD material (which, IMHO is never 'stellar' under any conditions)


Exactly. satellite SD, from what I understand, is first down-sampled to 480x480 (DVD is 720x480), and then overcompressed. It looks OK on smaller, direct-view TV's, but always looks bad on big screens, no matter what you do.


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## Bleeding Edge

OK. So it sounds like I can set the output once and be done with it. This is good.

Other issues I am concerned with:

1) Will a plasma HDTV have a burn-in problem if the display is not stretched? If yes, are there any non-plasma HDTVs that will not have a burn-in problem? Are they any good? I recognize that this may not be the correct forum for these questions.

2) Are there any forums that discuss compatibility issues between PVR receivers, audio receivers, and HDTVs? Clearly, since I am starting from scratch (except for speakers), I want to select units that will take advantage of digital connectivity. 

Thanks again all for your help!


----------



## willy

Bleeding Edge said:


> 1) Will a plasma HDTV have a burn-in problem if the display is not stretched? If yes, are there any non-plasma HDTVs that will not have a burn-in problem? Are they any good? I recognize that this may not be the correct forum for these questions.


DLP, LCD projection sets wont have burn in issues.



> 2) Are there any forums that discuss compatibility issues between PVR receivers, audio receivers, and HDTVs? Clearly, since I am starting from scratch (except for speakers), I want to select units that will take advantage of digital connectivity.


I would make sure you have plenty of component (NOT composite) inputs, and a DVI interface.


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## Mark Lamutt

Bleeding Edge - I'd suggest posting your questions in the Home Theater Audio and Video forums here at DBSTalk - you'll likely get a better response there.


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## krazy k

Hay Mark,
Have not been following this thread but has dish turned on the dishwire Yet?
Thank 
Krazy
Must sEE Movie in 04 "the Passion Of the Christ"


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## Mark Lamutt

No dishwire yet as of L146.


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## David_Levin

guruka said:


> "Stellar" hmmm... The scaler in the 921 is not as good as a high-end external scaler, nor is it as good as the scalers built in to some TVs (but better than others.) But, sheesh, it's satellite 480i SD material (which, IMHO is never 'stellar' under any conditions)


I agree that considering how bad SD material looks in the first place, the 921 scaler quality might not be a big deal.

But, I prefer the scaler built into my DLP for the 1080i to 720p conversion. The projector scaler seems to produce less jitter on horizontal camera pans.

This may not be so much an issue with the 921 scaler, but possibly more a result of the projector scaler being optimized for the DLP technology.

Obviously, for 720p material I don't want the 921 scaling to 1080i so the projector can scale it back.


----------



## knealy

How's the supply of 921's? Are people finding them? What's the defect rate? Is DN able to replace defective units quickly? Anybody sorry they bought one?

Keith


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## BobMurdoch

knealy said:


> How's the supply of 921's? Are people finding them? What's the defect rate? Is DN able to replace defective units quickly? Anybody sorry they bought one?
> 
> Keith


The supply has dried up for the time being.
Nope.
I'm guessing as "failure" rate you mean requiring a repair or replacement at E* HQ. In that case, it looks like about 10% with the early batch....
I've heard 48 hrs. in some cases....
Nope. You'll pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.............


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## knealy

BobMurdoch said:


> The supply has dried up for the time being.
> Nope.
> I'm guessing as "failure" rate you mean requiring a repair or replacement at E* HQ. In that case, it looks like about 10% with the early batch....
> I've heard 48 hrs. in some cases....
> Nope. You'll pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.............


Good to hear you like it. Anybody know what the production rate problems are? Why there are so few available? Did they just misjudge the demand?


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## BobMurdoch

I think that the shutdown of the supply channel happened when the blue line issue popped up. I don't know if this was the cause, but it seemed to occur with increased frequency just before they stopped shipping them.

There are also rumors that the upcoming SBC joint venture was also gobbling up hardware production capacity, and that continuing OTA tuner flakiness might have been a factor as well. As with all version 1.0 products, this one has all sorts of challenges, but watching Sharks Under Glass on DiscoveryHD (which I recorded the night before) in pristine HD clarity makes all of those headaches fade into the background. Also compared to my 721, the colors really pop off the screen (even in SD broadcasts-- could be the DVI connection vs. my old S-Video connection on teh 721), so the box, warts and all, has hit a home run with me.


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## muddy duck

I am new to the 921 and waiting for sears to get theirs in so I can get one. My question is how to complete the hookups using a surround system. I have a 6 channel yamaha and would like to include it in my hd experience. I plan to use the dvi-i cable or component cables whichever would be better. I would like some help on which would be the best way to route the cables. Should i go to the a/v reciever first or the 921 to tv and then to a/v reciever.. I know these are basic questions, but this is my first hd reciever and would like to make the experience the best.


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## Mark Lamutt

muddy duck - DVI to your TV (if your tv has a DVI connector) or component. Optical toslink to your receiver. You're all set.

You can also run svideo/composite/RF from the 921 through your system for using the 921 in SD (480i) mode, and analog RCA audio.


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## BobMurdoch

The BEST video connection is a direct connection of the DVI to your TV. You might get a LITTLE bit of signal degradation by routing it through the component video inputs of a good high end AV receiver, but the convenience of not having to constantly hit the TV/Video button on your remote might be worth the trade-off. It's a personal choice (I run my DVD, XBox, and GameCube through my 3 component video inputs on my receiver and then only have to change the input on my receiver when switching between these three... but I have to hit the TV/Video button on my TV remote to get the HD feed from the 921 via the DVI cable at the back of my TV)


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## knealy

Mark Lamutt said:


> muddy duck - DVI to your TV (if your tv has a DVI connector) or component. Optical toslink to your receiver. You're all set.
> 
> You can also run svideo/composite/RF from the 921 through your system for using the 921 in SD (480i) mode, and analog RCA audio.


What makes DVI better than component? What's the point of DVI?


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## BobMurdoch

DVI is a pure digital connection where component is an analog connection. Analog is much more susceptible to interference than digital connections.


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## knealy

I'm planning on getting a 921 from DishKing, also known as Timberville Electronics in Virginia. Has anyone dealt with these folks and do you know whether they're reliable?


----------



## tedhny

I got mine from them. Perfect experience. Everything as promised. Was up and running for the Superbowl.



knealy said:


> I'm planning on getting a 921 from DishKing, also known as Timberville Electronics in Virginia. Has anyone dealt with these folks and do you know whether they're reliable?


----------



## timmyt101

Soooooooooo...

Does anyone have any insight as to when the 921 may get re-released? I talked with two CSRs today and they'll gladly take my order, but have no idea when I can actually get a 921!


----------



## JohnMI

timmyt101 said:


> Soooooooooo...
> 
> Does anyone have any insight as to when the 921 may get re-released? I talked with two CSRs today and they'll gladly take my order, but have no idea when I can actually get a 921!


Um, you found CSRs that would take your order for a 921? That seems doubtful since Dish still does not sell them direct. They pretty much don't do anything with the 921s except tell you to go to a local retailer...

- John...


----------



## knealy

jgoggan said:


> Um, you found CSRs that would take your order for a 921? That seems doubtful since Dish still does not sell them direct. They pretty much don't do anything with the 921s except tell you to go to a local retailer...
> 
> - John...


Yeah, that was my experience too. Just to be sure I called them last night (Monday) to see if there was an upgrade deal, since Charlie mentioned there were such deals for long time customers to get PVR's. But no joy. The only deal they had was to the 521 I believe. That's two generations behind what I want. They couldn't even tell me where I could get one. They suggested Radio Shack, but Radio Shack knows nothing about any PVR's. :nono2:


----------



## JohnMI

You can get the 510 from Dish or various retailers. The 522 is for the DHA/lease program only at this time. The 921 is retailers only still.

- John...


----------



## CAL7

I see terms like "the supply has dried up" and "shutdown of the supply channel". What is really happening? Has DISH officially halted supply? I would think this would strongly imply they expect to find a hardware problem, so a recall would be expected. Yes/No?

FWIW, 921's are going for $1250+ on ebay.


----------



## jsanders

It could be that their tech support, bug reporting, call volume is too high even with the limited numbers of 921s out there. These are the early adopter type, used to quirky software. The call volume might grow exponentially if you release more, and get more of an average joe consumer as a customer base. There was a hardware blue line problem in the video. Someone said it was one batch of machines with a production problem that were effected. Haven't heard of anything else. The 921 apparently has an FPGA in it, a reconfigurable chip. That can allow you to change the hardware on the fly.

It doesn't seem like they really have a supply. For those that return their 921s to be fixed, they have reported getting back a refurbished model. If they had lots of 921 supply to spare, you might expect getting a new one, not having to wait for it to be fixed or referbished.


----------



## JoeQ

knealy said:


> Just to be sure I called them last night (Monday) to see if there was an upgrade deal, since Charlie mentioned there were such deals for long time customers to get PVR's. But no joy. :nono2:


Not sure if this info made it to this forum but if you own a Model 5000 with the HD modulator, you can get a 921 from DISH at $300 off or a free 811.


----------



## JoeQ

CAL7 said:


> I see terms like "the supply has dried up" and "shutdown of the supply channel". What is really happening? Has DISH officially halted supply? I would think this would strongly imply they expect to find a hardware problem, so a recall would be expected. Yes/No?
> 
> FWIW, 921's are going for $1250+ on ebay.


Heck, I tracked one that ended up going for $1500 as a "buy it now".
Amazing. For $500, I can wait a year. That is a total waste of money.

Anyway back to the point.
From Scott who posted this on avsforum:
"From Jim Defranco yesterday he said the 921 was on hold due to issues because some "extreme videophiles" noticed a problem that most people would never notice or care about.

To fix this problem they are making modifications to the hardware, also there will be a software update needed to completely fix this problem.

Also it was said that they hoped to start trickling out a few units after the first week of April."

and Matt Stevens also on avsforum:
"I can add to what is happening here. My contact inside was instrumental in getting the 921's pulled and stopping all shipments. He was disgusted with the unit's problems and wanted them fixed before Tech support was strapped beyond reason.

Thankfully he got his way."

So if this is in fact true, what I want to know is what happens to current 921 owner's like me? If they truly are making a HW mod, then I want mine up todate.


----------



## JoeQ

jsanders said:


> For those that return their 921s to be fixed, they have reported getting back a refurbished model. If they had lots of 921 supply to spare, you might expect getting a new one, not having to wait for it to be fixed or referbished.


I am on my third 921 and have been asking everywhere how to tell if what I am getting is a re-furb or a new unit.

*How the heck can you tell?*

Everything about both of my replacements look like it is a new one.

Both of mine came loaded with the first released version of SW so you have to wait for the download just like on new ones.
They come in a perfect looking sealed bag with the impossible to get off sticker that has the ser #,board rev and smart card # on it.
Even the power cable has that plastic plug on it.

Also, I never had to wait because the replacement unit comes first and then you send the defective one back in that same box.

My recently returned defective laptop was obvious that it was a re-furb unit but I sure can not tell yes or no on both of my 921 replacements.


----------



## JohnMI

JoeQ said:


> Not sure if this info made it to this forum but if you own a Model 5000 with the HD modulator, you can get a 921 from DISH at $300 off or a free 811.


Hmmm... That is interesting. Have you actually taken them up on the deal? Where did you learn about it? From what I understand, Dish absolutely is not doing any 921 stuff direct at this point -- all 921s must go through retailers. Even package deals like the HDTV w/ 921 for $1599. So, it seems odd to me that they would have any kind of a deal involving the 921 -- since they simply do not currently sell them direct through any specials/packages/whatever...

Also -- is that turning in your 5000 w/ HD modulator? Or just having record that you bought one through Dish at some point?

- John...


----------



## JoeQ

jgoggan said:


> Hmmm... That is interesting. Have you actually taken them up on the deal? Where did you learn about it?
> 
> Also -- is that turning in your 5000 w/ HD modulator? Or just having record that you bought one through Dish at some point?
> 
> - John...


Moderator: I know I have gone OT but I thought this was common knowledge so if you need to, please move this to the appropriate forum.

John,
To answer your questions:
1) I took them up on the free 811 deal because I already own a 921. I got a call that it has shipped and should be here tomorrow or monday.

2) Heard about it on avsforum. I would post the link but that thread is now like 45 pages long.
There was a fellow there who 'led the charge' against DISH on Feb 11 when they turned off the HD feeds on 61.5 and rendered our 5000's useless for HD.
By charge, I mean that he worked his way up through the management chain and got CJ Meany who works for Mark Duffy to make this agreement because we threatened to dump DISH (That's the short version).

3) The terms are this:
You need to have an active 5000 on your account.
Call C.J. (below) to get your name on the list as to what you want (free 811 or $699 921). 
When you receive it (921's are on QA hold right now), You *must*send them the modulator but you get to keep the 5000 receiver.
*The only rule is that the 811 or 921 must be activated on your account for one year or they charge you MSRP. NO programming comittment required.*

The person to contact is:
C.J. Meany 866-443-5162 Ext. 48685

I think you have to call him by March 31.


----------



## JohnMI

Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I don't have a 5000, but it is still interesting to see Dish doing a direct deal involving the 921. Thanks for filling us in!

- John...


----------



## knealy

Talked to DishKing today and they said they had a video conference with Charlie Ergen and the 921's are "in the pipeline." I guess that means back in production. They're supposed to arrive on the West Coast at the end of the month.


----------



## pjboud

He must of been talking about the retailer chat last week. Not really new news.


----------



## Seano

A few days ago I called Dish and asked about the firewire connection and using it with an RCA HDLP50W151. I was told that it would work fine. Reading this great forum, from which I have learned a great deal, thank you all, I see that I was probably given inaccurate information. The last posts I can find about the firewire port were before the 3/5/04 L1.47 software release. Is it possible the firewire ports were activated in that release?


----------



## knealy

As I contemplate purchasing the 921 and going to high definition TV, I'm wondering about programming. 

I currently have a 721 and don't have to pay for the program guide. I understand that the 921 requires me to pay $4.98 per month for a programming guide.

What is the difference between the two guides? 

I heard there is a video on demand feature relating to the 921's guide. Can anyone tell me how many movies are available on demand, and are any of them in high definition?

Is the video on demand an a la carte feature or is it bundled with the $4.98 guide. Can I get the guide for free without the video on demand?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Dishwire ports are not yet active.

The $4.98/mo fee isn't for the guide. It's a fee designed to offset the high cost of customer service and returns that the DVR boxes are causing. There's no difference between the 721 guide and the 921 guide.

And, there's no VOD service with the 921, or at least not yet. Who knows what will happen in the future.


----------



## knealy

Don't they also charge this fee on other DVR's? This is cute. They charge us for their malfunctions. It's beginning to sound like the major software manufacturers. Anyone come to mind?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

The fee is charged on all of the newer DVRs. There is no fee on the 501, 508 and 721. There is a fee on the 921, 522, and 510.


----------



## guruka

Mark Lamutt said:


> The fee is charged on all of the newer DVRs. There is no fee on the 501, 508 and 721. There is a fee on the 921, 522, and 510.


Unless you are an AEP subscriber, que no? .....G


----------



## BobMurdoch

guruka said:


> Unless you are an AEP subscriber, que no? .....G


A nice bonus........


----------



## Jester 1

I asked the dish people but I suspect that they are not
familiar with this product. I have the regular round dish on my roof. I
asked the dish guys if I would have to upgrade to the oblong dish. They
said no the HD programming was on the satellite that my dish is aimed at
right now, no need to upgrade it. I only have two cables coming off of it
into my attic and connected to two receivers in the house at different
locations. Am I a: going to need a different Dish (oblong) and b: going to
have to get another cable connected to the dish so that I can connect the
other tuner on the dvr 921? I also wonder if this would be considered the
third location since two cables are patched into the dvr?


----------



## jsanders

Jester 1 said:


> I asked the dish people but I suspect that they are not
> familiar with this product. I have the regular round dish on my roof. I
> asked the dish guys if I would have to upgrade to the oblong dish. They
> said no the HD programming was on the satellite that my dish is aimed at
> right now, no need to upgrade it. I only have two cables coming off of it
> into my attic and connected to two receivers in the house at different
> locations. Am I a: going to need a different Dish (oblong) and b: going to
> have to get another cable connected to the dish so that I can connect the
> other tuner on the dvr 921? I also wonder if this would be considered the
> third location since two cables are patched into the dvr?


If you want HD programming, you need a dish 500. For future-proofing, a wing satellite (61.5, or 148) is used. Isn't CBS-HD still on the wing satellite? Anyway, if you only have a dish 300, use that as your wing satellite, and add a dish 500 to get the main HD stuff. If you do the afmorementioned setup, make sure that the dish 500 has the same type of LNB as the dish you have. If what you have is a legacy LNB, don't use a dishpro LNB on the second dish. Then, you will need the switches to match as well, legacy, or dishPro.


----------



## JoeQ

jsanders said:


> If you want HD programming, you need a dish 500. For future-proofing, a wing satellite (61.5, or 148) is used. Isn't CBS-HD still on the wing satellite? .


The wing sat's at 61.5 and 148 are not for future proofing. They moved (not sure about CBS-HD YET) SHOHD and HBOHD off of those birds on Feb 11. HDPPV was moved earlier. Transponders on 61.5 were leased to Voom.

The future is 105 as well as good old 110,119.

Here is another option to consider if you don't care about locals on 105 and don't want to fool with the hassle of replacing your existing DISH 300 with a DISH 500

Merely repoint your existing DISH 300 at 110 or 119 (doesn't matter which).
Then point a second DISH 300 at the other bird and combine the coax cables with the very inexpensive SW21's.

It's a variation on my setup. 
While I do have a DISH 500, I also had a DISH 300 pointed at 61.5 muxed together with SW21's.
The output's of the 500 go to my 921.
When 61.5 became useless and I got my free 811 (for owning a model 5000 modulator), I repointed my dish 300 from 61.5 to 119 so I could let my TIVO record the SD stuff.

Joe


----------



## jsanders

JoeQ said:


> The wing sat's at 61.5 and 148 are not for future proofing. They moved (not sure about CBS-HD YET) SHOHD and HBOHD off of those birds on Feb 11. HDPPV was moved earlier. Transponders on 61.5 were leased to Voom.
> 
> The future is 105 as well as good old 110,119.


Not so sure about that. If I recall correctly, at one of those charlie chats, they mentioned that wing dishes weren't necessary anymore, but that 148/61.5 would be good for futureproofing. It doesn't mean that will be true or not, with the whole superdish fiasco, but you never know!

Does anyone know for certain where CBS-HD is now?


----------



## jforkner

According to the Dish Network Website:
"Available at the 61.5 and 148 orbital locations.
CBS HDTV
Watch your favorite shows, sports and events in high definition."


----------



## JoeQ

jforkner said:


> According to the Dish Network Website:
> "Available at the 61.5 and 148 orbital locations.
> CBS HDTV
> Watch your favorite shows, sports and events in high definition."


I can not resist pulling your leg
Do you really put any stock in what Dish puts on it's website?
It is always way out of date and has no useful info.

Well, it is a fact that CBS-HD is moving off of 61.5. We have known that they were going to do that for a long time.

From a fellow on avsforum:

"The Dish Net program guide for channel 9453 (CBS-HD) now contains text stating that the channel is moving to 9483, and the signal format changing, on April 14th. It says that your equipment may need to be upgraded, and to call Dish for details.

Presumably this is the switch to 8PSK that we were already warned about. So unless the demo channel remains in QPSK, there will be no remaining QPSK HD services on Dish after Apr. 14th.

CBS-HD is already up on 9483"

Just like SHOHD,etc. got moved of off 61.5 on Feb 11, CBS-HD is next on April 14.

This is just my opinion but with the fact that the Superdish does not work in all of CONUS, Dish needs to have a plan.
Maybe the Dish talk about "Future proofing" with 61.5/148 may be refering to moving some HD programming in 8psk back onto the wings as their capacity on 110 for HD runs out.


----------



## David_Levin

Just the opposite. CBSHD has been moved off of SuperDish and is now on the wings only (and being converted to 8VSB). (It was never available as a downlink from SuperDish anyway)

Only a small % of subs can get this channel anyway.

I wouldn't add a wing just to "Future Proof". Dish seems to change their allocation plan every few weeks. I doubt even Charlie cold future proof himself.

I think eventually Dish will have to put more HD on either SuperDish or the Wings, but which one is anyone's guess.


----------



## JoeQ

David_Levin said:


> Just the opposite. CBSHD has been moved off of SuperDish and is now on the wings only (and being converted to 8VSB). (It was never available as a downlink from SuperDish anyway)


Sorry but you kind of have your facts all jumbled up.

1) Your sentence : "CBSHD was moved off of Superdish but was never available from Superdish anyway" Makes no sense.

2) 8VSB is the transmission standard for Digital OTA broadcasts. Nothing to do with Satellite broadcasts. 
How I wish it were true, though. Like my now defunct Model 5000 with it's HD modulator, we could be recording all the HD stuff

3) Dish WAS using QPSK/4psk for their SHOHD/HBOHD/HDPPV/HDDEMO/CBSHD channels on the 61.5/148 slots.
With the exception of CBSHD, They moved to 110 and went to 8psk for all HD channels on Feb 11 except CBSHD which is changing to 8psk and moving slots in April.

4) Remember, Echostar made a deal for the 61.5 bird with the parent company of VOOM and gave up transponders to them. That is why the 148 slot has been slower in making the transition because they had no such deal with Voom for that bird.
Check it out at lyngsat.

Poke around the HD Recorder Forum in avsforum.com
That is where a number of folks have inside sources at Echostar where this info all comes from.
Mark in this forum of course has all the inside info too so maybe Mark will chime into this discussion.

BTW, Not to go too OT but Mark is checking his sources at Echostar for me to find out if my MITS HD2000 D-VHS wll be one of the supported D-VHS decks when/if the firewire gets turned on in the 921.
The rumor mill is that it will only work with JVC decks.

Joe


----------



## rrg

I believe that CBS-HD will be switching to 8PSK on April 14th but that the signals will remain on 61.5 and 148. At least for now.

This is consistent with what I was told by an Echostar tech at CES in January.

Ron Gomes


----------



## DonLandis

WCBS is already on two channels, so one must be 8PSK. The old one is scheduled to go dark on APRIL 14th I recall. 
I'm not happy about it because the guide could be set to display all my favorite channels in HD in a glance, now the WCBS is high above the HDPPV and out of EPG display range. Minor issue but I have nothing else to complain about.


----------



## tnsprin

DonLandis said:


> WCBS is already on two channels, so one must be 8PSK.


Apparently not, I didn't pull out my 8psk adapter to check. They Both show the same transponder on 61.5, and only 2 HD channels are suppose to fit on a transponder, and only if both are 8psk.


----------



## rrg

They're probably just mapping the QPSK signal to both channel numbers until switching to 8PSK on Apr. 14th (when they'll drop the 9453 mapping).


----------



## HoosierDaddy

Hi,

I'm moving from c-band to DishNetwork and trying to figure out the best deal for a 921 system. The promotions now don't include a 921 but I hear rumours of ways to "upgrade" the Digital Home Advantage to a 921. But the people at the DishNetwork toll-free don't know or say no. 

Also, maybe off topic but some retailers' terms for the Digital Home Advantage say you have to subscribe to local channels (if available) and others' don't. I want HD and some movie packages but have no use for the local chanels. 

TIA


----------



## JohnMI

HoosierDaddy said:


> The promotions now don't include a 921 but I hear rumours of ways to "upgrade" the Digital Home Advantage to a 921. But the people at the DishNetwork toll-free don't know or say no.


I have heard of no such rumors even. Dish basically isn't doing any 921s directly except for the "5000 modulator" issue -- which seemed to not be a normal promo at all -- more an issue of a group of people hitting the right person at the right time.

In any case, I don't think that there is any way, at this point, to get even on a list for a 921 directly from Dish -- DHA or otherwise.



> Also, maybe off topic but some retailers' terms for the Digital Home Advantage say you have to subscribe to local channels (if available) and others' don't. I want HD and some movie packages but have no use for the local chanels.


I have heard that if you argue enough, you can get out of the locals-required with DHA or any other plan. Although, they are really pushing it as a combo now -- so you may have to play some CSR Roulette.

- John...


----------



## HoosierDaddy

Thanks jgoggan, I will brush up on my arguing ;-)


----------



## comet48

knealy said:


> Talked to DishKing today and they said they had a video conference with Charlie Ergen and the 921's are "in the pipeline." I guess that means back in production. They're supposed to arrive on the West Coast at the end of the month.


I suspect Charlie doesn't have a clue. He was saying 2 weeks a month aga on Charlie Chat. Either that or he is misrepresenting the truth.


----------



## Ken_F

Mark,


>


Is there any chance you could post or link a high resolution closeup of the 921 remote?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Ken - yeah I could do that. Please send me an email to remind me.


----------



## knealy

It looks pretty much exactly like the 721's remote.


----------



## Mike D-CO5

What is the green button on the left for?


----------



## Cheezmo

It is a "recover" button. In the event that you can't get any video, it is supposed to put the video output into a state that is most compatible with a variety of displays (480i?).

I accidentally pressed it once and it took me 10 minutes to get a picture back.


----------



## Cheezmo

Here is part of the documentation, which explains my problems!

"Note: RECOVER will first try to tune your TV to channel 3, then to channel 4, and then other video inputs with each press of the RECOVER button. You may need to press the RECOVER button up to 30 times to recover your satellite TV video."

That is not a typo, it really says 30 times! Mine wasn't even set up to control my TV so it was probably changing video output options of the 921 itself too (how else to explain the 30 permutations).


----------



## knealy

Great! a button that you press to recover that instead fouls everything up. So it's just sitting there waiting for some curious fingers to press it? I hope there's a way to de-program it.


----------



## Barefoot

Firstly, thanks for the great review! I'm interested in this DVR and a lot of questions have already been answered. I'm sorry if my questions have already been addressed, but I didn't take the time to read through this whole giant thread. My main concerns are:
1) still have to switch from 480p to 1080i through the menu?
2) any ir codes out yet?...I own a ProntoPro
Thank you....looks like a great forum!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

1. Yes, unless you define a macro to do it, like I did in my pronto file.

2. Discrete ON and OFF are the only discrete codes at the moment. We've asked for more that may come in the future.


----------



## Barefoot

Thank you! How about the other commands for ir? In order to program a macro, you must have them. Are they available to the public? More discreet codes would be nice, but the regular ir commands are a must for me. The Pronto has enabled my young kids to run my system, but they are not the problem. It's that other adult lady that lives here!


----------



## Mark Lamutt

The 921 accepts all standard Dish IR remote commands, but the 921 remote does not send IR commands to the 921. I've posted my pronto file that has all of the IR commands for address 9, but if you want another address, you'd need other Dish remotes to learn those commands.


----------



## Barefoot

Thanks again Mark! I've downloaded your ccf and am currently viewing it on prontoedit. There is a 4900, 2800, and a 501 device. Which will work with the 921? All? While I'm at it, the 1394 is still not enabled? Any new news on that if it isn't? Thanks again in advance!


----------



## Barefoot

Sorry, one more.....I'm completely new to DISH. Is address 9 a locals code, or something else?


----------



## Mark Lamutt

Ah...don't use the one that is on remotecentral. Use the one that is posted in this forum - it's in one of the stickied threads at the top of the page. The one on RC is about 3 years old now.

Dish remotes use one of I think it's 19 addresses so that you can easily avoid remote conflicts. I have my 921 set to remote address 9. If you don't know how to change the remote address of a receiver, do a search for "remote address" in one of the dish forums here.


----------



## JoeQ

Barefoot said:


> Thanks again Mark! I've downloaded your ccf and am currently viewing it on prontoedit. There is a 4900, 2800, and a 501 device. Which will work with the 921? All? While I'm at it, the 1394 is still not enabled? Any new news on that if it isn't? Thanks again in advance!


Not to butt in - but I guess I just did

I have a 721 remote that I bought since it is identical to the 921 remote but it sends out IR commands so I could program my MX700.

Stupid me did not realize that my MX700 already had a predefined set of IR codes for the 721 so I never used the 721 remote.

PM me if you are interesting in buying it to teach your pronto. It is just gathering dust.

Your other question:
"While I'm at it, the 1394 is still not enabled? Any new news on that if it isn't?"
I guess you do not frequent these boards much as that is bigger news than the release of the 921 itself.

The 1394 will NEVER be enabled. That is the bad news verified by many of the high ups in DISH.

Mark knows it also but has been under NDA so can not say. Still can't figure out why HE got so much s** in the forums, though.

Joe


----------



## Mark Lamutt

I need to get the review updated to take that out. It's pretty far out of date these days anyway.

I took the heat because I did know about it, and couldn't say anything. But I knew situations like that could happen when I signed up for this.


----------



## Barefoot

Thanks a bunch guys....again, excellent forum! I have been researching the net today as I was interested in the 921. I saw some petty negative comments on another forum, mostly in regard to the 1394 issue. I think I'm going to wait for the release of the "922", even if that takes a while. The thing that bothers me the most about the 921 is not the firewire issue, but the 480p/1080i issue. Seems like it will be somewhat of a pain to switch back and forth with SD/HD signals. Not to open a new can of worms, but what is the big deal with 1394....mainly just a quick method to transfer programs to an external hard drive?


----------



## JoeQ

Mark Lamutt said:


> I need to get the review updated to take that out. It's pretty far out of date these days anyway.
> 
> I took the heat because I did know about it, and couldn't say anything. But I knew situations like that could happen when I signed up for this.


You sure got beat up in this and other sites and this the reason ?

That is really stupid. Don't people understand what NDA stands for.

In my line of work, we have NDA's with other companies and our lawyers watch us like a hawk. Break a NDA and you can get sued big time.


----------



## JoeQ

Barefoot said:


> The thing that bothers me the most about the 921 is not the firewire issue, but the 480p/1080i issue. Seems like it will be somewhat of a pain to switch back and forth with SD/HD signals.


Not sure why this is such a big deal.
You just use the component outputs (DVI also, I think) and set the receiver to 1080i and be done with it. It will upconvert everything to 1080i.

The latest SW download did fix the various zoom/stretch modes so there is no reason to use S-Video anymore for SD material. My TV does not allow it's built in zoom/stretch modes on the High Def component input.


----------



## David_Levin

Barefoot said:


> but the 480p/1080i issue. Seems like it will be somewhat of a pain to switch back and forth with SD/HD signals.


In general, you don't need to switch this very often (if at all). The 921 will scale whatever it gets to whatever you asked for. So if your tv is 1080i and you select 1080i you'll always get out 1080i.

I do perfer the scaler in my TV, so will switch the 921 output to match the source (so when I watch ABC I switch to 720). But, most people are not bothering to do this.

The only other switching is if you have any SD components hooked up (2nd TV or DVD recorder). You'll have to switch to 480i to get a signal to these devices (and kill the HD signals). There is a ir sequence you can program (as a macro) to switch to SD or HD. Or use the toggle key.



Barefoot said:


> but what is the big deal with 1394....mainly just a quick method to transfer programs to an external hard drive?


It's a bit more then that. First problem is that the hard drive fills up way too quickly. Second issue is that there is boud to be some HD content that you just want to keep (it's not like we can purchase any HD DVDs - yet). Firewire is the ONLY way to get HD to an HD recorder (be it D-VHS or future HD-DVDR). Without this port you'll NEVER get the opportunity.

This was a promised feature which was a deciding factor for some people to choose the 921 over the HD-Tivo.


----------



## Barefoot

I thought I read somewhere that 480p on SD sources looked the best, even better than 1080i (for SD sources).


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## Unclejeff

Okay, I have been following so many reviews/opinions on the 921 that I have come full circle: I don't know if I can depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. This is very frustrating. I currently have Dish and I like how easy the programming features are to work with and I don't so much like DirectTV.

Okay, the 921 is way too much like a Fiat car and I am not so anxious to keep 'dealing' with all of the problems. So, assuming I am not at this moment so interested in recording, what should I get? I have two dish antennas on my roof so that I could, in an earlier life, get local stations and the usual dish stuff. Right now I have an antenna on the side of my house that picks up excellant local HD signals. It would be nice to get HDTV and discovery and HD-HBO and I am tired of waiting.

So, what should I do?

I don't want to go back to cable and I kinda like Dish more than DirectTV, but I have outgrown Junior High School dances and I want things to work. Sometime before next year's Superbowl.

So, should I get the 721 and call it quits for the forseeable?

What does a fellow, who wants to watch a show beginning at 8PM to do when it is one minute before 8PM and just wants to watch his show without re-booting, etc?


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## tahoerob

Unclejeff said:


> Okay, I have been following so many reviews/opinions on the 921 that I have come full circle: I don't know if I can depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. This is very frustrating. I currently have Dish and I like how easy the programming features are to work with and I don't so much like DirectTV.
> 
> Okay, the 921 is way too much like a Fiat car and I am not so anxious to keep 'dealing' with all of the problems. So, assuming I am not at this moment so interested in recording, what should I get? I have two dish antennas on my roof so that I could, in an earlier life, get local stations and the usual dish stuff. Right now I have an antenna on the side of my house that picks up excellant local HD signals. It would be nice to get HDTV and discovery and HD-HBO and I am tired of waiting.
> 
> So, what should I do?
> 
> I don't want to go back to cable and I kinda like Dish more than DirectTV, but I have outgrown Junior High School dances and I want things to work. Sometime before next year's Superbowl.
> 
> So, should I get the 721 and call it quits for the forseeable?
> 
> What does a fellow, who wants to watch a show beginning at 8PM to do when it is one minute before 8PM and just wants to watch his show without re-booting, etc?


Well, I have had the 921 since Jan. (first batch!!).
I would NOT go back to the 501 or 6000! 

I am very pleased with the 921 as a dual tuner HD DVR. The OTA tuner is better than the 6000 and now stable.
Remember, you will read a lot of posts from the few complainers & not from the majority of owners who are pleased. It is quite unreasonable for this new, first of a kind product to be perfect from the beginning. They seem to be taking the bug reports seriously & fixing as fast as possible. THIS IS A COMPLEX PRODUCT. I believe it works fairly well. 
The last L180 update made mine very stable!! 

I find that I watch almost only HD content now. I have ~10 hours now available to watch. It is great to record any of programs on HDNet, HDMovies, or Discovery HD. ESPN is so so now. But last NFL season was great to watch Sunday night football in HD. This season will be better with ABC, ESPN, CBS, & FOX with MORE HD football!!!!!!!!!!!
OTA recording is a little tricky now but quite doable. This will be fixed over the next coming months. My only gripe here is lack of guide data for now, but I do have access to a variety of online sources to plan a head for HD programs!! Ironically, after spending time & money getting a great OTA setup, I use it seldom. I watch Discovery HD & HDNet mostly. The HDNet World Report news in HD is great. Also Bikini Destinations is good too :sure:

I have also CBS-HD (with guide data), HBO-HD, & Showtime-HD. Deadwood on HBO has been fun in HD. Between HBO, SHO & HD Movies, I get to watch a lot of HD movies now. Occasionally the HD PPV is worth looking at.

On my TV, the SD content is BETTER than with previous 501. On SD PPV or letterboxed SD movies, I can use zoom aspect on 921 to fill 16*9 well. The SD PPV ends up being close to DVD quality. The zoom works well to expand SD letterboxed shows like Enterprise (UPN OTA HD weak here).
I am also looking forward to Sirius radio soon too.

As far as I can tell, there is no real advantage to changing to DirecTV. They apparently use a lesser MPEG 1 instead of MPEG 2 for compression. This would account for the majority reports of Dish having better PQ. 
From what I can read about the HD TIVO coming out, the only advantage is the TIVO software & OTA guide already there. However, Dish just bought TVGuide channel & I bet by years end the Dish guides will get a lot better.


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## knealy

I don't know what happened to my post of a couple of days ago, but here I go again.

Once I get a 921 and connect the component video to my HDTV will I need to connect any other video cables, like S-Video? Will programs that are not HD be sent to my TV over component outs, or do I need to use the S-Video for these SD programs coming from the 921?


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## Slordak

When the 921 is operating in HD mode, all signals are upconverted (if necessary) and sent out over the component or DVI outputs. When the 921 is operating in SD mode, all signals are downconverted (if necessary) and sent out over the composite and S-Video outputs.

The SD/HD mode can be controlled from the remote and is independent of the programming being watched. If the 921 is set to HD mode, all programming will be viewed over the "HD Outputs". Thus, to answer the question, no additional cabling is needed. It suffices to hook up a single video output and use this for all purposes, and leave the 921 running in the given SD/HD mode at all times.

The only caveat is that if one wants to send a 480i signal to the television so that certain features of the television can be used (de-interlacer, TV zoom/stretch modes instead of 921 zoom/stretch modes, etc.), then one would of course have to switch to SD mode. In this case, one would need another (S-Video or composite) video cable hooked up as well.


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## ibglowin

Mine works well also. Yea it has some quirks and things they have to fix but I know they will be ironed out. The ability to record HD makes it all worthwhile for me. I have a 6000 as well. It works great but is slooooow compared to the 921. If you have the disposable income I would still go with the 921 especially if your partial to E*

Just my $0.02


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## bytre

My 921 works pretty well too, although I don't use OTA on it. I would not, could not, go back to a non-DVR HD receiver. 

Mine rarely crashes and records well. I don't believe I've missed any recordings with 180.


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## tahoerob

Slordak said:


> When the 921 is operating in HD mode, all signals are upconverted (if necessary) and sent out over the component or DVI outputs. When the 921 is operating in SD mode, all signals are downconverted (if necessary) and sent out over the composite and S-Video outputs.
> 
> The SD/HD mode can be controlled from the remote and is independent of the programming being watched. If the 921 is set to HD mode, all programming will be viewed over the "HD Outputs". Thus, to answer the question, no additional cabling is needed. It suffices to hook up a single video output and use this for all purposes, and leave the 921 running in the given SD/HD mode at all times.
> 
> The only caveat is that if one wants to send a 480i signal to the television so that certain features of the television can be used (de-interlacer, TV zoom/stretch modes instead of 921 zoom/stretch modes, etc.), then one would of course have to switch to SD mode. In this case, one would need another (S-Video or composite) video cable hooked up as well.


What he means in English!!:
Plug in with component or DVI, set to HD mode, & forget about it!


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## Unclejeff

Whew(!); It is not that I don't mind futzing with controls; it is just that I would rather be the one to decide when to re-adjust/re-set or otherwise 'fix' things. The 921 has been taking so much abuse that I am really afraid of jumping into the 'deep end'. I get great OTA reception and I want High Definition from my Satellite. Your recent responses are encouraging.


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## knealy

Slordak said:


> When the 921 is operating in HD mode, all signals are upconverted (if necessary) and sent out over the component or DVI outputs. When the 921 is operating in SD mode, all signals are downconverted (if necessary) and sent out over the composite and S-Video outputs.
> 
> The SD/HD mode can be controlled from the remote and is independent of the programming being watched. If the 921 is set to HD mode, all programming will be viewed over the "HD Outputs". Thus, to answer the question, no additional cabling is needed. It suffices to hook up a single video output and use this for all purposes, and leave the 921 running in the given SD/HD mode at all times.
> 
> The only caveat is that if one wants to send a 480i signal to the television so that certain features of the television can be used (de-interlacer, TV zoom/stretch modes instead of 921 zoom/stretch modes, etc.), then one would of course have to switch to SD mode. In this case, one would need another (S-Video or composite) video cable hooked up as well.


Thanks. That's very helpful. Exactly what I wanted to know. The only other questions I'd have then would be, does the 921 do a good job of up/down converting signals? Are there TV's that would do the job better if the raw signal were sent to it? Can you notice?

When HD signals are sent via component video is it automatically scaled to 16:9 to fill the HDTV screen? Would you ever need to fiddle with zooming etc. on the TV if the signal is coming in through the component video?


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## knealy

tahoerob said:


> What he means in English!!:
> Plug in with component or DVI, set to HD mode, & forget about it!


Thanks, Rob. That's what I figured out.


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## SimpleSimon

knealy said:


> Thanks. That's very helpful. Exactly what I wanted to know. The only other questions I'd have then would be, does the 921 do a good job of up/down converting signals? Are there TV's that would do the job better if the raw signal were sent to it? Can you notice?


It's rather subjective - some folks like what the 921 does, others don't, and still others have external scalers that are probably an extreme solution. Some TVs might do better with bth an SD & HD hookup - I have that myself (via my VCR). I like what the 921 does better than using the SD output. Sometimes it depends on the specific unit you get - some of them seem to be flaky in certain output modes, but those problems are probably ironed out with the recent hardware fixes.


knealy said:


> When HD signals are sent via component video is it automatically scaled to 16:9 to fill the HDTV screen? Would you ever need to fiddle with zooming etc. on the TV if the signal is coming in through the component video?


The 921 has several aspect ratios and stretch/zoom modes available. L180 improved them considerably, and the next set of changes should make those even better. Some shows are better if you use a different "format" - it's just a button on the remote, so it's trivial to try them. Some TVs let you stretch/zoom an incoming HD signal, others (like mine) don't.

Bottom line is, if you don't have HD now, you'll be happy.


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## knealy

SimpleSimon said:


> The 921 has several aspect ratios and stretch/zoom modes available. L180 improved them considerably, and the next set of changes should make those even better. Some shows are better if you use a different "format" - it's just a button on the remote, so it's trivial to try them. Some TVs let you stretch/zoom an incoming HD signal, others (like mine) don't.


So you can stretch and zoom an HD source?


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## Slordak

The 921 does not allow you to stretch and zoom an HD channel. It did have some bizarre "unstretch" business it could do as a result of a bug in a previous software version, but this has been removed. Since an HD channel is supposed to already have a 16:9 signal (even if it is still 4:3 content with black or gray bars), there is really no further processing to perform (in theory at least). For the same reason, very few televisions would allow one to apply the HDTV's stretch/zoom modes to a 720p or 1080i input signal.

The 921 does a credible job of upconversion, although there are a number of television sets which do a better job. The 921 has gotten better with regards to stretch and zoom quality in the most recent software, but still does not have what would be considered ideal handling in these areas.


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## SimpleSimon

Slordak said:


> The 921 does not allow you to stretch and zoom an HD channel.


Unh. Sorry, I must disagree. See the Excel spreadsheet which is part of Aspect Ratio comparison: L149 vs. L180

As regards this, it shows 3 HD modes - Normal, Stretch & Zoom. Stretch does left/right only. Zoom does both directions. Stretch would be used to 'kill' side bars of 4:3 content that's inside a 16:9 feed, and Zoom handles letterboxed content. they don't quite have the numbers right yet, but it's getting there.


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## Slordak

My apologies; if the 921 is in fact allowing stretch and zoom modes to be applied to high definition content, then I stand corrected. I remember the bizarre gray bars "unstretch" mode useful for ESPN-HD, but I don't recall the other modes being effective on older software versions. I haven't tried these for some time, though, so if this has changed, that would explain the discrepency.


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## SimpleSimon

Stretch & Zoom also existed in L149. As regards this, only Zoom mode has changed. It used to only change up/down size. Now it changes both horizontal & vertical. Details in the spreadsheet.


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## Dish 500

Mark Lamutt[b said:


> Assign ABC/CBS/NBC to local Digital channel like on 6000?[/b]
> 
> This hasn't been implemented on the 921 like it was on the 6000, so there's no way to assign a major network to the local digital channels.


There is a software version update in September that all local channels on the 7000s-8000s will return to the actual local channel numbers (2-99). Thanks.

Dish Network 500


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## SimpleSimon

Dish Network 500 said:


> There is a software version update in September that all local channels on the 7000s-8000s will return to the actual local channel numbers (2-99). Thanks.
> 
> Dish Network 500


Please state your source.

Also, I see trouble with this as it will cause conflicts with OTA channels.


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## knealy

SimpleSimon said:


> Please state your source.
> 
> Also, I see trouble with this as it will cause conflicts with OTA channels.


This update was mentioned on the last TechTalk. I'd like to be able to customize the channel order channel by channel. This would have been especially useful as a favorites list for the Olympics where they have been scattered all over the guide.

I'm not sure there will be any problem with OTA conflict for channel numbers since my OTA channels show up as 002,004, 045, etc. These should sort first before 2,4, and 45.


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## knealy

Anybody understand why you can't extend a recording beyond 29 minutes without manually editing the event after you've set it up?

L186 refused to accept >29 minutes and just wiped out whatever you put in. L187 now puts up a warning telling you you can't extend it beyond 29 minutes. This was an issue on the 721 until they fixed it. What's the deal with 29 minutes, and why haven't they corrected it for the 921 when it was fixed month's ago on the 721?


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## n0qcu

I am sure they will set it up like the 811. you will have a choice of Satellite locals remapped to the ota number OR you can have the analog OTA channels but not both.


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## knealy

n0qcu said:


> I am sure they will set it up like the 811. you will have a choice of Satellite locals remapped to the ota number OR you can have the analog OTA channels but not both.


So if I get analog locals by satellite and digital locals OTA, I can't map the satellite locals to their actual channel numbers? That sucks.


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## n0qcu

Let me try this again. If you get your analog locals OTA then you cannot remap the satellite version of your analog locals to the ota number. Digital OTA locals are ok.
I'll use Denver channel 2 as an example.
if you add the analog channel it will be 00200
or
you can have the satellite channel 8204 map as 00200
but not both.

the digital OTA channel should map as 00201


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## knealy

n0qcu said:


> Let me try this again. If you get your analog locals OTA then you cannot remap the satellite version of your analog locals to the ota number. Digital OTA locals are ok.
> I'll use Denver channel 2 as an example.
> if you add the analog channel it will be 00200
> or
> you can have the satellite channel 8204 map as 00200
> but not both.
> 
> the digital OTA channel should map as 00201


Got it. Makes sense.

Right now I get local digital OTA as 004 in the guide. When I select it I get a second screen asking me to choose 004-1 or 004-2. Would these then just show up on the 811 on a single screen as:

00400 local analog from satellite
00401 local digital OTA
00402 local digital OTA

or would I still have sub-screens for sub-channels?


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## SimpleSimon

Good stuff! Thanks guys!


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## Dish 500

SimpleSimon said:


> Please state your source.
> 
> Also, I see trouble with this as it will cause conflicts with OTA channels.


Source: DISH Network - August Tech Forum
Software Version: L1.87

Dish Network 500


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## Dish 500

knealy said:


> This update was mentioned on the last TechTalk. I'd like to be able to customize the channel order channel by channel. This would have been especially useful as a favorites list for the Olympics where they have been scattered all over the guide.
> 
> I'm not sure there will be any problem with OTA conflict for channel numbers since my OTA channels show up as 002,004, 045, etc. These should sort first before 2,4, and 45.


Good idea.

Dish Network 500


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## mb1

tm22721 said:


> Most projectors need all five signals RGBHV but that DVI connector only appears to provide RGB.
> 
> Where would the 15 pin VGA connector get its HV sync signals ?


REPLY: On the VGA HD15 connector, Pin 13 is H Sync and Pin 14 is V Sync.
Pin 10 is Sync Ground. This assumes that the DVI connector is a -I which includes both Digital and Analog (RGBHV) signals. Hope this helps.


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## Equus911

Hello all. I have diligently read all 23 pages of this forum and would like to pose a few questions and request some clarification. Looks like I'm the first poster for 2005! I only hope the moderator is still reading this thread.

The main reason I'm interested in the 921 instead of the 942 is the RGB output. I have a Sony VPH-1272 which is a great projector. It has the 5 BNC RGB inputs. It will scan whatever resolution you can get into it. Am I correct in gathering that all I need is a breakout cable to go from DVI to the 5 BNC's and I'll be set for HD content?

I'm building my new home from the ground up, so what's better, to run two cables from the dish or to use that new switch? I can go either way.

How is the distance on the UHF remote? If I had the 921 in the basement theater room and another TV in a bedroom two floors up, that I wanted to connect to the component outs, would the UHF remote be able to reach it from that distance? I'd guess we'd be talking about 30 feet through a couple wood floors.

Is there a PROFOUND difference between 480i being upscaled in the 921 to 1080i, vs. 480i changed to 480p and changing the output to 480p? Or would most people not notice much of a difference and be happier just leaving it on 1080i?

That's it. I'm off to read everything about the 942 now!


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## Mark Lamutt

Welcome Equus911 - you actually posted your questions in the 921 review thread, which is why there hasn't been any activity for some time.

To briefly answer, though: DVI breakout cable would probably work I would guess. Don't know for sure, though.

Two cables are always better than one, even of you only use one - that way you have a spare. 

You wouldn't have any problem from 30 feet most likely, but keep in mind that the component and DVR outputs are not active at the same time, so if you have DVI plugged in, the component outputs get shut off. The 942 doesn't have this limitation.

I see a difference between 480i scaled to 1080i vs 480i scaled to 480p in my setup. Others may or may not.


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## Equus911

Hello Mark, thank you for such a quick reply. From what I've seen so far of the 942 it looks fantastic, but I don't think I'll be able to use it because it does not appear to have the RGB output that the 921 has. Which leaves me trying to convert 1080i from component to RGB, (and I haven't found a box that can do that), or buying a component video input board for the projector, which by all accounts is substandard to the RGB. Any further thoughts on this? Thanks again!


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## knealy

Equus911 said:


> Hello Mark, thank you for such a quick reply. From what I've seen so far of the 942 it looks fantastic, but I don't think I'll be able to use it because it does not appear to have the RGB output that the 921 has. Which leaves me trying to convert 1080i from component to RGB, (and I haven't found a box that can do that), or buying a component video input board for the projector, which by all accounts is substandard to the RGB. Any further thoughts on this? Thanks again!


I thought DVI was a digital out. You wouldn't be able to just break out the DVI cables for RGB which is analog, -n'est pas?

Keith Nealy


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## KKlare

The 921 has DVI-I, which is DVI-D + analog RGB. Look at the extra bins by the cross.
BTW, HDMI adds sound.
-Ken


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## DonLandis

I use a DVI to RGBHV (VGA 15 pin HD connector) from the 921 as it was convenient to keep my most used DBS probiders, Voom and DirecTV on the highest quality DVI and use the RGBHV inputs to my projector on the lessor quality from the 921. All you need is a low cost adapter cable. You can find them below $30 with either a VGA DB15 HD connector or with 5 BNC's for the RGBHV depending on your monitor's input design. The best place to find this adapter cable is on the internet at places like cables to go. Just do a search on the internet for " DVI to RGBHV adapter cable" Google will get you to several web sites that will offer the right cable at a reasonable price. 
HDMI is a nice touch, especially if you are using one of the latest receivers that switch video sources via HDMI such as the latest Denon. With this you can switch your sources with HDMI and the receiver will pull the audio off and output HDMI video only for your monitor. Otherwise, HDMI has no real advantage over DVI as few people here will use the soundsystem built into their monitor. No, they use a separate receiver and speakers so the switching on all these except these latest receivers that just came out are switching only analog video / audio.


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## DonLandis

I use a DVI to RGBHV (VGA 15 pin HD connector) from the 921 as it was convenient to keep my most used DBS providers, Voom and DirecTV on the highest quality DVI and use the RGBHV inputs to my projector on the lessor quality from the 921. All you need is a low cost adapter cable. You can find them below $30 with either a VGA DB15 HD connector or with 5 BNC's for the RGBHV depending on your monitor's input design. The best place to find this adapter cable is on the internet at places like cables to go. Just do a search on the internet for " DVI to RGBHV adapter cable" Google will get you to several web sites that will offer the right cable at a reasonable price. 
HDMI is a nice touch, especially if you are using one of the latest receivers that switch video sources via HDMI such as the latest Denon. With this you can switch your sources with HDMI and the receiver will pull the audio off and output HDMI video only for your monitor. Otherwise, HDMI has no real advantage over DVI as few people here will use the soundsystem built into their monitor. No, they use a separate receiver and speakers so the switching on all these except these latest receivers that just came out are switching only analog video / audio.


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## Mark Lamutt

Equus - you can purchase a component to RGB transcoder (about $150) that will do what you want.


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## Equus911

OK, thanks! Actually, within about 10 minutes of my last post I finally came across a component-->RGB converter by Key Digital that would go as high as 1080i (previously all the Audio Authority ones only went to 480p). And then I found a friend who uses one and loves it. So, pending Mark's review of the 942, that's probably what I'll go with in my new house, now that the output problem has been solved. Thanks again!


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## Curmudgeon

knealy said:


> What makes DVI better than component? What's the point of DVI?


Not one person in a 1000 can tell the difference between a dvi and component hook up...and the purpose is to keep Hollywood happy by not allowing a copyable (analog)signal outside the tv set.


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## JohnMI

Curmudgeon said:


> Not one person in a 1000 can tell the difference between a dvi and component hook up...and the purpose is to keep Hollywood happy by not allowing a copyable (analog)signal outside the tv set.


That's simply not true. There are lots of TVs out there that do poor digital to analog conversion -- and lots of sources that are bad at it too. Depending on which you have, you can often easily tell the difference.

For example, my (rear projection) TV appears to be not very good at the conversion. Therefore, if I use DVI, then 1080i input doesn't look as good as when I use component (where my VOOM source box is doing the conversion).

So, sorry, but you are incorrect about being able to tell the difference. Lots of people should be able to tell depending on their source and destination equipment.

- John...


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## trupillo

I have a dishpvr 921 that is giving me a "System Failure" at bott up. This occurs with or without the HD installed. With the HD it then says "disk Failure". It seems like I need a new boot image ???? Any ideas ?
Thank you


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## DHall

trupillo said:


> I have a dishpvr 921 that is giving me a "System Failure" at bott up. This occurs with or without the HD installed. With the HD it then says "disk Failure". It seems like I need a new boot image ???? Any ideas ?
> Thank you


The same thing happened to mine. I called E* and they're sending me a new (refurbished I'm sure) one. I rebooted a couple more times and got it to work. Good thing since it will be a few days before the new unit arrives. This is the second time this has happened to me. When it happened the first time, I had gotten it working again by the time advanced tech support got back to me, so they wouldn't replace the unit. This time I got advanced tech support right away and they had the other time it happened on record, so they didn't hesitate to send a new one. I also noticed that the time remaining to record on the hard drive was approximately the same both times.

Also, if you do get it going again. You'll have to re-enter all of your preferences and scan for off-air locals again. It loses everything.

Dave


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