# CES 2009 Slingloaded HD 922 DVR



## dvrblogger

In tomorrow's edition of Consumer electronics daily there is full details on dish "slingloaded" HD DVR model 922. It has 1 TB internal hard drive and support for external HD, 5 digital inputs,touch pad remote,sling placeshifting, widget based graphical navigation and can access linear,VOD and web based video.


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## jacmyoung

dvrblogger said:


> ...5 digital inputs...


What is the combination? Two OTAs and three Satellite's?


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## dvrblogger

full release on 922
DISH Network's ViP 922 and SlingGuide unveiled: first "SlingLoaded" HD DVR - Engadget HD

DISH NETWORK® INTRODUCES WORLD'S FIRST "SLINGLOADED" HD DVR AT 2009 CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW

New 1 Terabyte High Definition DVR with Integrated Slingbox, Touchpad Remote Control and Tile-based User Interface

Las Vegas, Nev., Jan. 8, 2009 - DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), the nation's third largest pay-TV provider and the digital transition leader, today unveiled the world's first
SlingLoaded™ HD DuoDVR™, the award-winning ViP® 922. The ViP® 922 is the first high definition digital video recorder that incorporates placeshifting technology.

The ViP® 922 was built by EchoStar Technologies L.L.C., a wholly-owned subsidiary of EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS), and developed for DISH Network as an entertainment centerpiece that - combined with the only 1080p Video on Demand and 100 percent, all-HD suite of programming packages available today - will revolutionize the way consumers watch and enjoy their favorite programming. DISH Network will offer the ViP® 922 to customers in Spring 2009.

"DISH Network is pleased to add another award-winning product to our suite of MPEG-4 HD DVR ViP receivers: a groundbreaking set top box that offers consumers the true experience of TV everywhere," said DISH Network Chairman, CEO and President Charlie Ergen. "By integrating Sling Media's Slingbox technology into our industry-leading HD DVR, DISH Network is providing even more ways for our subscribers to view their TV programming - through their television sets, their desktops at home, their laptops on the road, and their smartphones including Blackberrys, iPhones and more."

The ViP® 922 allows TV enthusiasts to watch and control their favorite TV shows and sporting events from anywhere in the world via a broadband Internet connection on their laptop or mobile phone. With five video sources, including satellite, broadband and optional over-the-air tuners, viewers will never run out of shows to watch. The ViP® 922 also features a multi-tuner DVR with up to 1,000 hours of recording time and supports connecting external hard drives for even more storage capacity.

An innovative touchpad remote control accompanies the ViP® 922, which eliminates half the buttons of a standard remote control and provides cursor-like navigation on a TV screen. With a slide of the thumb, viewers experience scroll-over activation of the new user interface: on-screen widget-like tiles and pop-up menus. All features are selectable by an underside index finger trigger selection on the radio frequency-controlled remote, which offers two-way learning of codes from other AV equipment remote controls.

The ViP® 922 can also be controlled using SlingGuide™, a new way for consumers to control their TV viewing experience over the Internet. SlingGuide features a powerful search engine for the TV along with the ability to schedule the ViP® 922 DVR timers remotely.

Other ViP® 922 features include:
∑ News feeds located on the home screen, giving viewers instant access to national news, weather, sports, and stock quotes.
∑ Ability to organize channels by channel name or number.
∑ 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 480i and 480p support.
∑ Internet-delivered DISH On Demand including 1080p content.
∑ Ability to move one day in the guide while browsing full screen EPG or partial EPG.
∑ Connections to home networks via Ethernet, HomePlug Turbo (the next generation of HomePlug that allows for faster in-home transfer of content using home power lines), or WiFi (with optional WiFi adapter).
∑ Powerful search capability across all available video sources, including IP, VOD, satellite or DVR.
∑ Intuitive timer creation and DVR management, allowing users to categorize programming by groups (video source, title, genres) or by content description (date, length, ratings and more).
∑ Ability to load photos, MP3s and selected Internet content.
∑ Future upgrades such as photo sharing, movie ticket purchases, family calendars, instant messaging, streaming audio, and the ability to transfer content within a home network.

EchoStar's new user interface and remote control for the ViP® 922 were selected as CES Innovations 2009 Design and Engineering Award honorees. Demonstrations of the ViP® 922 will be available at DISH Network's Booth No. 14438, located in the Central Hall at the Las Vegas Convention Center, Jan. 8-11. For more information about DISH Network, visit DISH Network - 1.888.825.2557 or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474).

Sling Media introduces SlingGuide: Redefining Search and Discovery for Satellite, Cable and Terrestrial Broadcast Programming

With powerful browse and search to add recordings, smart DVR space management and complete recording priority control, SlingGuide unlocks the power of your DVR from anywhere - on your PC, Mac or iPhone.

Las Vegas - International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) - January 8, 2008 - Sling Media, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS), today introduced SlingGuide, a new web-based way to easily find, watch and record your favorite television programming from anywhere. SlingGuide allows consumers to browse, search and record programs on their DVR from any PC, Macintosh or compatible mobile phone. In addition, if the DVR is SlingLoaded™ or has a Slingbox™ connected to it, consumers can also watch live or recorded programs off their DVR through a web-based version of the SlingPlayer software that is integrated into SlingGuide. SlingGuide will be available first to DISH Network subscribers when it launches in spring of 2009. For more information, go to Sling Media - SlingGuide.

"SlingGuide revolutionizes the way we search and discover traditional TV programming from satellite, cable and terrestrial broadcasts," said Blake Krikorian, co-founder and CEO of Sling Media. "As avid couch potatoes, we were frustrated with the existing methods for finding what to watch and record from our satellite and cable TV sources. Meanwhile, for the much larger universe of Internet-based content, we were able to enjoy amazingly quick, easy and precise search tools. 'What regional sports station is that ball game on? Why does it take me so many steps to set a recording for a show on next week?' In other words, why can't I simply 'Google' my TV? SlingGuide, our answer to this frustration, makes it easy for you to find, watch and record the programming that matters most - from anywhere."

For DISH Network customers with select DVRs, SlingGuide will provide a personal, integrated and centralized view of everything you want to watch or record on DISH Network including programming from hundreds of channels, thousands of programming choices, and even internet video from Sling.com.

The following is a list of DISH Network DVRS that are expected to be compatible with SlingGuide at launch.*

HD DuoDVRTM SlingLoadedTM ViP® 922 (Just Announced)
DuoDVR™ ViP® 722k
DuoDVR™ ViP® 722
DuoDVR™ ViP® 622

*Receivers require a broadband network connection to use SlingGuide.

Beyond the Grid
Current program guides on your TV can limit a consumer's view of what is really available to watch at present and in the future. For that reason, consumers watch only a handful of channels or programs at most. SlingGuide's powerful search technology makes it easy to watch and discover new programming you may never have known existed using the power of your PC, Mac or mobile phone. With SlingGuide you can search for shows by title, genre, network, keyword or actor.

A Better Remote Control
Using the web browser on an iPhone or iPod Touch, DISH Network customers can put the power of SlingGuide in the palm of their hand. Sitting in front of the TV, SlingGuide turns your iPhone or iPod Touch into an intelligent remote control capable of quickly browsing and searching the program guide, scheduling and managing DVR recordings, and more. SlingGuide on the iPhone or iPod Touch works with the DISH Network DVR to do this all in the background without disturbing the television picture displayed on the TV.

SlingLoaded or Slingbox-Enabled
While a Slingbox is not required to enjoy SlingGuide, those customers who have a Slingbox connected to one of the supported DISH Network DVRs or are lucky enough to be one of the first to enjoy the DISH Network HD DuoDVRTM SlingLoadedTM ViP® 922, SlingGuide also gives you the ability to watch live TV or DVR recordings on your PC, Mac or compatible mobile phone, around the home or around the world.

SlingGuide Features at a Glance
∑ Personalized, integrated view of everything you want to watch or record in a simple visual interface on your PC, Mac or iPhone/iPod Touch
∑ All the features of your DVR's remote control plus the seamless ability to browse, record or watch from anywhere.
∑ Watch your shows anywhere (with a SlingLoaded DVR or Slingbox attached)
∑ Discover new programming you never knew you had
∑ Easy, comprehensive search instead of your old remote control
∑ One click to record
∑ Search and record shows from your iPhone or iPod Touch
∑ Integration with Sling.com for clips, trailers, etc. of your favorite shows

Pricing and Availability
SlingGuide will be free to DISH Network subscribers who have a network-connected, compatible DVR. Sling Media will make SlingGuide available to DISH Network customers in spring of 2009. A limited beta of SlingGuide is already under way. For an opportunity to participate in the beta program, go to www.slingmedia.com/slingguide.

About Sling Media
Sling Media, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS), is a leading digital lifestyle company offering consumer services and products that are a natural extension of today's digital way of life. Sling Media's product family includes the internationally acclaimed, Emmy award-winning Slingbox™ that allows consumers to watch and control their living room television shows at any time, from any location, using PCs, Macs, PDAs and smartphones and the revolutionary new SlingCatcher™, a universal media player that seamlessly delivers broadcast TV, Internet video and personal content to the TV. Sling Media is also the company behind the video entertainment web site, Sling.com, offering consumers a wide variety of popular TV shows, movies and other entertainment free for viewing online or on the TV using SlingCatcher. For more information on Sling Media, the Slingbox or the SlingCatcher, visit Sling Media - Home of the Slingbox. To watch your favorite TV shows and movies, check out Sling - Watch full episodes, movies, and clips of your favorite TV and online shows.


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## cdizzy

As a DirecTV sub I must say that the 922 does sound pretty impressive.


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## jacmyoung

What is not clear is how many live shows can be recorded at the same time. And the whole home solution will be a later upgrade not at the roll-out.

Very impressive I agree.


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## Ron Barry

Here is a link to the article on engadget. GOt some nice pictures of the User Interface.. Is that a PC I see?

Hmmm Ipod Touch... Cool.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/08/dish-networks-vip-922-and-slingguide-unveiled-first-slingload/

Hmmm like the interface and the SlingGuide picture looks pretty sweet.


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## baldrick5

man, as a D* sub I can honestly admit that I am extremely jealous....

with the recent HD channels that are planned to be rolled out by E*, the D* loyalty of mine is starting to wear thin......

now, if only E* and Rainbow can kiss and make up and carry IFC, AMC and Fuse in HD.....if this happens I will cancel D* immediately, even with the Early Termination Fee!


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## jacmyoung

Ron Barry said:


> ...Hmmm Ipod Touch... Cool...


I thought it was an iPhone.

Turning my wife's iPhone into a full functional remote with full SlingGuide benefit will certainly improve the WAF


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## Grentz

I am very jealous, but at the same time those specs seem to indicate a hefty price tag is in the future.

Not so sure about the mouse like touchpad control though as the photos at engadget would indicate...


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## phrelin

Looks really cool and the Spring 2009 timing is perfect for rolling out a high end item. Despite that sarcasm I'll probably get one (or two) if our IRA's don't drop another 30% and my better half will allow me more toys.

In the meantime I do hope they can engineer a fix for the 8 month old software related audio problem on the ViP612/622/722 DVRs.


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## gully_foyle

jacmyoung said:


> I thought it was an iPhone.
> 
> Turning my wife's iPhone into a full functional remote with full SlingGuide benefit will certainly improve the WAF


It is an iPhone. Sling also has announced an iPhone/iPod Touch client Real.Soon.Now, so I suspect that's what that is all about.


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## Brandon428

cdizzy said:


> As a DirecTV sub I must say that the 922 does sound pretty impressive.


I agree,they're really tempting me to join the darkside. Hopefully it won't be much longer till the new directivos.


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## dodge boy

baldrick5 said:


> man, as a D* sub I can honestly admit that I am extremely jealous....
> 
> with the recent HD channels that are planned to be rolled out by E*, the D* loyalty of mine is starting to wear thin......
> 
> now, if only E* and Rainbow can kiss and make up and carry IFC, AMC and Fuse in HD.....if this happens I will cancel D* immediately, even with the Early Termination Fee!


Yeah I picked a bad time to get locked into a 2 year commitment with DirecTv.... I never cared for Dish's equipment but THIS COULD change that.....


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## smiddy

Interesting! I figured DiSH would take advantage of their purchase, nice one!


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## paulman182

It certainly looks like a great piece of hardware, but I notice that the press release says that Dish is "the digital transition leader."

What in the world does Dish Network have to do with the transition of locals to digital?


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## Steve

Kudo's to Dish for marrying the Sling and VIP platforms so nicely. Can't wait to see the first user reports. /steve


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## pdl2mtl90

Grentz said:


> those specs seem to indicate a hefty price tag is in the future.


My thoughts exactly! I am considering getting a second receiver to get HD in the bedroom (have 622 in living room) and this might be a possible solution if the price isn't too steep!


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## tfederov

The fact they mentioned iPhone is another hopeful sign of getting the sling player in it pretty darn soon.


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## jclewter79

paulman182 said:


> It certainly looks like a great piece of hardware, but I notice that the press release says that Dish is "the digital transition leader."
> 
> What in the world does Dish Network have to do with the transition of locals to digital?


That is in reference to their converter boxes and OTA DVR's that Echostar build.


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## sundude90

Any idea when this will be launched into the Public??


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## Draconis

cdizzy said:


> As a DirecTV sub I must say that the 922 does sound pretty impressive.





baldrick5 said:


> man, as a D* sub I can honestly admit that I am extremely jealous....


Agreed.

After Dish bought Slingmedia we knew it was only a matter of time before Dish came out with a DVR with placeshifting. Looks like DIRECTV has some catching up to do.


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## Stuart Sweet

Color me impressed...


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## ferris209

Surely it's gonna have two t.v. capability....right?!?


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## kiwiquest

Very impressive..........and innovative....I really enjoy using my Slingbox with D* DVR, but to have it all together would be sweet!!


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## William

Is it Slingbox Pro-*HD* compatible or just Slingbox SD? I was looking at a Slingbox Pro-HD for my Mac Pro/iPhone but would be willing to wait on the 922 if it's Sling HD and priced right.


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## FTA Michael

sundude90 said:


> Any idea when this will be launched into the Public??


Press release said "Spring 2009".


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## dave29

very impressive.......


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## mongo

Although I am a DirecTV subscriber, I have to say that when this comes out I will seriously have to think about switching. DirecTV's last few HD DVRs have provided no innovation or real new features. The 922 seems to be loaded with new and valuable features. Unless DirecTV comes up with an answer for this soon, I think I am gone.


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## jake14mw

It does look very impressive. It's nice to see some actual interesting innovation in DBS.

It's funny, I think the Iphone/Ipod touch has changed everying in the way of consumer electronics. Everything will move toward that type of technology. My son just got an Ipod touch, and I'm blown away by the thing.


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## xmguy

cdizzy said:


> As a DirecTV sub I must say that the 922 does sound pretty impressive.


Here here!


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## 50+

It says it is ™ HD DuoDVR™ Can we assume it has dual HD tuners. I haven't seen the outputs yet. 
Very impressed!


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## harsh

paulman182 said:


> What in the world does Dish Network have to do with the transition of locals to digital?


DISH Network offers a coupon qualified DTV converter box and has _announced_ a DTV DVR.


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## say-what

nice

Can't wait for the Sling iPhone App


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## Greg Alsobrook

Wow! This is some very cool stuff! Well done!

The shot of SlingGuide on Engadget makes me very envious!!


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## Ron Barry

Link to another article on the 922.

http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2009/01/05/daily40.html


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## jacmyoung

50+ said:


> It says it is ™ HD DuoDVR™ Can we assume it has dual HD tuners. I haven't seen the outputs yet.
> Very impressed!


It has five "digital inputs". Minimum of three like all the current VIP dual tuners. But since it can also record HD VOD and playback through broadband in the background, maybe four HD tuners? And if it is like the 722k that has two OTA tuners, it is possible to have all five HD tuners.


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## Grentz

mongo said:


> Although I am a DirecTV subscriber, I have to say that when this comes out I will seriously have to think about switching. DirecTV's last few HD DVRs have provided no innovation or real new features. The 922 seems to be loaded with new and valuable features. Unless DirecTV comes up with an answer for this soon, I think I am gone.


Thats a bit harsh. Instead of new models for new features, Directv is pushing software updates for all models (HR20/21/22/23) with new features and they are working up to things.

Directv2PC, Widgets, OnDemand, Quicktune, MediaShare, are all things that have been added and are improving.

I hope this will be a push for Directv to work on a new HD version of the gui for their receivers though


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## harsh

Grentz said:


> Thats a bit harsh. Instead of new models for new features, Directv is pushing software updates for all models (HR20/21/22/23) with new features and they are working up to things.


The problem with this theory is that DIRECTV omitted some hardware required for some of the most sought after features of the competition's DVRs in the current platform. Time spent on workarounds is arguably wasted.


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## 4HiMarks

dvrblogger said:


> The following is a list of DISH Network DVRS that are expected to be compatible with SlingGuide at launch.*
> 
> HD DuoDVRTM SlingLoadedTM ViP® 922 (Just Announced)
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 722k
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 722
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 622
> 
> *Receivers require a broadband network connection to use SlingGuide.


What is a DuoDVR ViP 622 and how does it differ from a plain vanilla ViP 622? Or does it? The Dish Network site has no mention that I can find. I have 2 622s and would like to know if I would need to upgrade one to this DuoDVR (TM) model to take advantage of this new SlingGuide feature.


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## hdtvfan0001

Grentz said:


> I am very jealous, but at the same time those specs seem to indicate a hefty price tag is in the future.
> 
> Not so sure about the mouse like touchpad control though as the photos at engadget would indicate...


I may walk over to their booth tomorrow and take a peak if I can...


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## harsh

50+ said:


> It says it is ™ HD DuoDVR™ Can we assume it has dual HD tuners


DuoDVR means that the device serves up two live output streams. Since the existing ViP DVRs aren't listed as HD DuoDVR, one might assume that the ViP922 could output two HD streams.


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## harsh

4HiMarks said:


> What is a DuoDVR ViP 622 and how does it differ from a plain vanilla ViP 622?


Same products with a DIRECTV style model name.


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## Maverickster

Holy crap...for the first time since becoming a D* subscriber, I'm officially regretting my decision. E* is quickly closing the gap in HD content and now this...grrrr....8 short months left on my contract. If D* wants to keep me around (and I know, "they don't care"), they better do something spectacular in the next few months to make up for this. Wow. Wow.

--Mav


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## 50+

Thanks harsh. 
That is what it sounded like to me. I won't move from D* but it does make it tempting. To much invested. My parents on the other hand will be first in line for this new tech. Can't wait to see how it works. Spring might be an unrealistic eary estimate but who knows. The Csr my mother talked to a few weeks ago told her it would be available end of Feb early March.


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## homeskillet

Did anybody else notice the channels in the guide on the first picture of the Engadget article?

FX HD
Encore Action HD

I don't believe those are available right now are they?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2009/01/epg.jpg


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## jadebox

ferris209 said:


> Surely it's gonna have two t.v. capability....right?!?


Dunno. But, my guess is that you will be able to use the "SlingCatcher" set-top boxes to watch streaming video on other TVs in the house.

I wouldn't be suprised if they come out with a smaller, cheaper version of the SlingCatcher specifically to work with Dish DVRs.

-- Roger


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## HDRoberts

jacmyoung said:


> It has five "digital inputs". Minimum of three like all the current VIP dual tuners. But since it can also record HD VOD and playback through broadband in the background, maybe four HD tuners? And if it is like the 722k that has two OTA tuners, it is possible to have all five HD tuners.


I do believe (as I thing your implying) the 5 are:

Satellite x2
ATSC OTA x2
Broadband


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## Ron Barry

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I may walk over to their booth tomorrow and take a peak if I can...


IF you do and you have a camera.. be sure to take some pics and post them... As the say.. Pictures are worth a 1000 words.  Would also love to see peoples impressions of the box after seeing it live. Screen shots are one thing but actually getting to see the box operate and how the UI flows is another.


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## jadebox

Ron Barry said:


> Screen shots are one thing but actually getting to see the box operate and how the UI flows is another.


I'd also like to hear comments on the remote. I think Dish's current remotes are just about the best designed that I've used. The buttons are logically arranged such that they are easy to use and easy to identify by touch.

At the other end of the scale, my bedroom's TV/DVD remote has a million small buttons all lined up in straight rows and columns so that it's impossible to use without looking at it.

I'm hoping the new "touch-screen" remote still includes the important buttons arranged in a logical way.

-- Roger


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## lpmiller

such desire I feel right now....


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## RAD

OK, anyone know the important question, $$$$$$, how much will the puppy cost?


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## koji68

How much are you willing to pay? $300? For a leased unit?


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## GrumpyBear

"*transfer content within a home network*"
So looks like some form of MRV is coming to Dish as well.


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## jacmyoung

Anyone who can get to their booth please don't forget to ask this two most important questions:

1) What is the ETA? Spring of 2009 but which part? Spring can turn into fall

2) How much to lease, how much to buy, for new subs and for exsiting subs, respectively.


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## William

koji68 said:


> How much are you willing to pay? $300? For a leased unit?


If it's Slingbox HD and not just Slingbox SD I'll wait and pay $300. Anyway to tell?


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## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> "*transfer content within a home network*"
> So looks like some form of MRV is coming to Dish as well.


Unfortunately it will not be available at the roll-out, and if the roll-out is delayed, it can be the end of the year or even next year. Hope not.


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## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> 2) How much to lease, how much to buy, for new subs and for exsiting subs, respectively.


I'd be looking towards the D* HR21 Pro pricing model. If it does have two HD outputs, it will require some serious installation expertise.


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## jacmyoung

William said:


> If it's Slingbox HD and not just Slingbox SD I'll wait and pay $300. Anyway to tell?


It should be better than Slingbox HD in that the HD can be streamed in the background. The current Sling HD Pro will take over the VIP box, meaning if one is streaming on the road, the other at home must watch the exact same show at the same time.


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## Groundhog45

That's an impressive piece of equipment. Definitely raises the bar.


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## hoopsbwc34

Sling software has always been impressive, so that makes me excited. I've been waiting to hear more on this since they announced it last year, and it looks even better than I expected. This combined with a lower price (compared to D*) for programming has me on the fence. Come Spring, I can see myself switching to E* for the first time.


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## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> Unfortunately it will not be available at the roll-out, and if the roll-out is delayed, it can be the end of the year or even next year. Hope not.


I meant to _*"Coming"*_, in my original comment.
This is the 1st time Dish has ever even mentioned, anything along the MRV lines. I do Realize "coming" and "soon" with any company product is a very VAGUE term.


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## rahlquist

Grentz said:


> Thats a bit harsh. Instead of new models for new features, Directv is pushing software updates for all models (HR20/21/22/23) with new features and they are working up to things.
> 
> Directv2PC, Widgets, OnDemand, Quicktune, MediaShare, are all things that have been added and are improving.
> 
> I hope this will be a push for Directv to work on a new HD version of the gui for their receivers though


Playing a wee bit of Devils advocate here, 2 Beta features and 3 released. Yes it is a step forward but DirecTV may need to increase the pace somehow. I appreciate the work DirecTV is doing but they could see some churn with competition doing things like this.


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## dishguy77

Love the iPhone shot. Notice in the top left, to the right of "AT&T" is the WIFI symbol. Don't expect to ever stream this content over 3G. It still makes the box a must have for my home and iPhone. There are plenty of McDonald's and Starbucks out there in the network.


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## Jon W

> For DISH Network customers with select DVRs, SlingGuide will provide a personal, integrated and centralized view of everything you want to watch or record on DISH Network including programming from hundreds of channels, thousands of programming choices, and even internet video from Sling.com.
> 
> The following is a list of DISH Network DVRS that are expected to be compatible with SlingGuide at launch.*
> 
> HD DuoDVRTM SlingLoadedTM ViP® 922 (Just Announced)
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 722k
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 722
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 622


Am I reading this right that this basically adds web scheduling to the 622/722 including the Iphone option? Very sweet


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## Ron Barry

Looking forward to putting that app on my wife Touch.


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## Mark Lamutt

I can't wait to get my hands on a 922! Not to mention the sling software for the iphone and touch...that's going to be very cool...


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## lujan

So far, what I've read about the 922 is NOT too impressive to me. I already have a Slingbox Pro so the web scheduling means nothing to me. The larger hard drive means nothing to me since I never get even close to the limit. The only thing that interests me is the dual OTA tuners. I haven't heard anything about another very interesting feature that I would like to see? *For the HD material (1080p, 720p, 1080i), is it going to be able to decode (or pass on to an HD capable receiver) the HD audio formats (Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD Master, etc.)?* That is the question that someone should ask if they're lucky enough to go over to the E* booth.


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## jclewter79

harsh said:


> DuoDVR means that the device serves up two live output streams. Since the existing ViP DVRs aren't listed as HD DuoDVR, one might assume that the ViP922 could output two HD streams.


From what the press realease says, it appears that they will do that through homeplug.


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## HobbyTalk

When the 922 was announced a few months back I though big deal, I already have a Slingbox. But with all the new features of the 922 I'll seriously look at getting one.


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## Chris Blount

$199 to lease. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149501


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## Jolliec

How would one use a Harmony One remote with this since there is a no touch pad? I hope they included the ablilty to use a regular remote with directional keys to navigate, I cannot imagine they would leave that out. I still don't think I could give up my Harmony One, so that would kinda negate the neat mouse type GUI!


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## bobukcat

As the owner of 2 622s (one is actually leased) I can't wait for the release of the SlingGuide software and I'll be very tempted to upgrade one (or both) to the 922 when possible - even if it's at a premium to do so. I think the new remote shows some serious outside-the-box thinking although I guess you could argue it's just a copy of technology used in the Ipod Touch/Phone and a Wii remote. Either way I'm very, very impressed with the first look, a lot of times when a company buys another one it never really integrates the two in any meaningful way but it looks like E* has done it right.


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## GrumpyBear

Jolliec said:


> How would one use a Harmony One remote with this since there is a no touch pad? I hope they included the ablilty to use a regular remote with directional keys to navigate, I cannot imagine they would leave that out. I still don't think I could give up my Harmony One, so that would kinda negate the neat mouse type GUI!


There is a keypad on the screen, so it looks like you/I will still beable to use our Harmony's, with the old fashion keypads.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Jolliec said:


> How would one use a Harmony One remote with this since there is a no touch pad? I hope they included the ablilty to use a regular remote with directional keys to navigate, I cannot imagine they would leave that out. I still don't think I could give up my Harmony One, so that would kinda negate the neat mouse type GUI!


I read that the new remote will have an updatable remote database so it appears that this remote could take the place of the Harmony.


----------



## tcatdbs

Doesn't look "that" impressive. The rear looks just like my 722, I really DOUBT it has HD to TV2 (has same coax port as my 722). Without dual HD tuners it doesn't impress me. I'd rather see on-line capabilities expand with the 722. I'd probably never use Sling... I'd just be that much less productive at work...


----------



## Steve

HobbyTalk said:


> I read that the new remote will have an updatable remote database so it appears that this remote could take the place of the Harmony.


The remote also has the ability to back up some critical data like timers, in the event a box fails. /steve


----------



## harsh

lujan said:


> So far, what I've read about the 922 is NOT too impressive to me. I already have a Slingbox Pro so the web scheduling means nothing to me.


The Slingbox HD should appeal to you.


> For the HD material (1080p, 720p, 1080i), is it going to be able to decode (or pass on to an HD capable receiver) the HD audio formats (Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD Master, etc.)?[/B] That is the question that someone should ask if they're lucky enough to go over to the E* booth.


I think this is extremely unlikely. At the point of TrueHD and DTS master, the audio starts taking up as much or more bandwidth as the video.


----------



## harsh

Jolliec said:


> How would one use a Harmony One remote with this since there is a no touch pad?


Why would one want to use a Harmony One when you could have a touch pad remote with a satellite receiver for less than the price of a Harmony touch pad remote?


----------



## bobukcat

tcatdbs said:


> Doesn't look "that" impressive. The rear looks just like my 722, I really DOUBT it has HD to TV2 (has same coax port as my 722). Without dual HD tuners it doesn't impress me. I'd rather see on-line capabilities expand with the 722. I'd probably never use Sling... I'd just be that much less productive at work...


It does have Dual (actually four including OTA) HD tuners, I'm guessing you meant seperate HD outputs, not tuners though.


----------



## makers78

tcatdbs said:


> Doesn't look "that" impressive. The rear looks just like my 722, I really DOUBT it has HD to TV2 (has same coax port as my 722). Without dual HD tuners it doesn't impress me. I'd rather see on-line capabilities expand with the 722. I'd probably never use Sling... I'd just be that much less productive at work...


I believe HD to a second tv would be accomplished through a SlingCatcher or some similar Dish-branded version, in which case it will use your home network rather than the TV2 coax output.

I am curious if you can simultaneously watch on more than two sources, or on two remote sources. I guess that goes along with an earlier comment regarding Multi-Room Viewing, how many rooms at once?


----------



## Steve

Any word yet on how many simultaneous tuner (non VOD) recordings will be supported? /steve


----------



## bobukcat

My guess is it's the same as the existing recievers and can record one program on each tuner simultaneously (while also watching previously recorded programming).


----------



## bobukcat

Just finished looking through all the pictures (thanks guys!!!!!) from the press conference and I'm thinking that the sling monitor would make a perfect birthday present for the wife in July. Of course I'd then HAVE to upgrade one 622 to the 922 but sacrifices must be made! !Devil_lol


----------



## zer0cool

http://i.gizmodo.com/5126635/sling-...ps-up-video-wirelessly-anywhere-in-your-house

gizmodo article on the 15" HD wireless display that makes the perfect companion to the 922


----------



## GrumpyBear

With 5 tuners, it should be interesting to see what improvments can be made on the Current DLB setup. Instead of jumping between just 2 Tuners, maybe 3 or 4 tuners. NOW wouldn't that be cool. I understand there a 5 tuners, but I don't want to be to Greedy


----------



## 50+

Does not appear to support 2 HD outputs For me that is a bummer. I do like all the other features.


----------



## jclewter79

Looks like the bar has been set for the new directivo that is supposed to be out at the end of next year.


----------



## GrumpyBear

50+ said:


> Does not appear to support 2 HD outputs For me that is a bummer. I do like all the other features.


I don't see 2 HD outputs, directly from the 922. We will need to see what can be done via Wireless connections. Still going through everything, on the slides, and getting HD Output to another TV looks promising still. Granted I want all the Buffer, right were I sit and the more the BETTER.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> I don't see 2 HD outputs, directly from the 922. We will need to see what can be done via Wireless connections. Still going through everything, on the slides, and getting HD Output to another TV looks promising still. Granted I want all the Buffer, right were I sit and the more the BETTER.


Getting HD to another TV can be done with a Slingcatcher, as long as the network bandwidth speed is sufficient, such as a hard-wired network at home, or if your broadband upload speed is high enough, can do it from a remote location too.


----------



## HobbyTalk

It also appears the 922 can do wireless (with an additional adaptor) which means g/n wireless networks.


----------



## ferris209

So far the only thing I am not too impressed of is the remote. I love my current remote (vip622 5.3 IR). I don't see a record button, and I wear that button out.


----------



## timhk

Any OTA support?


----------



## Steve

timhk said:


> Any OTA support?


optional. 2 tuners, I think. /steve


----------



## Chris Blount

Here is some video of the 922 in action courtesy of Allen Noland. Thanks Allen!

WARNING: LARGE FILE! BROADBAND ONLY!

http://images.dbstalk.com/ces2009/922_in_action.wmv


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> My guess is it's the same as the existing recievers and can record one program on each tuner simultaneously (while also watching previously recorded programming).


Bear with me, 'cause I use that other Sat company's gear and I'm not familiar with current VIP capability.  Are you saying that with the optional OTA you think it might be capable of 4 simultaneous tuner recordings? /steve


----------



## HobbyTalk

Steve said:


> Bear with me, 'cause I use that other Sat company's gear and I'm not familiar with current VIP capability.  Are you saying that with the optional OTA you think it might be capable of 4 simultaneous tuner recordings? /steve


You should be able to record 2 OTA and 2 Sat channels at the same time.


----------



## jacmyoung

ferris209 said:


> So far the only thing I am not too impressed of is the remote. I love my current remote (vip622 5.3 IR). I don't see a record button, and I wear that button out.


They mentioned one push record function too.

I think people need to wait before passing judgment on the remote capability, it is a new way of using the remote, a lot of keys we can not see physically on the remote, but can be done much easily with the touchpad and on-screen cursor control. Let's wait for the first review.

Now I have no problem saying the remote is ugly


----------



## ferris209

jacmyoung said:


> They mentioned one push record function too.
> 
> I think people need to wait before passing judgment on the remote capability, it is a new way of using the remote, a lot of keys we can not see physically on the remote, but can be done much easily with the touchpad and on-screen cursor control. Let's wait for the first review.
> 
> Now I have no problem saying the remote is ugly


I agree, I will certainly give the remote a chance, but I sure hope that the older remotes are 100% compatible in case I can't get used to the new one.


----------



## Scott Spillers

phrelin said:


> Looks really cool and the Spring 2009 timing is perfect for rolling out a high end item. Despite that sarcasm I'll probably get one (or two) if our IRA's don't drop another 30% and my better half will allow me more toys.
> 
> In the meantime I do hope they can engineer a fix for the 8 month old software related audio problem on the ViP612/622/722 DVRs.


FWIW, L6.16 seems to have cleared up all of the audio issues that we had experienced.


----------



## Scott Spillers

ferris209 said:


> Surely it's gonna have two t.v. capability....right?!?


The press release refers to it as a DuoDVR, and mentions that OTA tuners (plural) as an option. So I would surely expect it to support two TVs. It looks like Dish is renaming all of their 2 output receivers as DuoDVRs.

HD DuoDVR™ SlingLoadedTM ViP® 922 (Just Announced)
DuoDVR™ ViP® 722k 
DuoDVR™ ViP® 722 
DuoDVR™ ViP® 622


----------



## Galaxie6411

They mention External hardrive"S", any idea if that was meant as multiples on one receiver? You can read it either way IMO and even with that 1TB internal and adding a 750GB-1TB I'd still have it full within a year.


----------



## ferris209

Galaxie6411 said:


> They mention External hardrive"S", any idea if that was meant as multiples on one receiver? You can read it either way IMO and even with that 1TB internal and adding a 750GB-1TB I'd still have it full within a year.


I saw a slide from the announcement which seemed to indicate that 50% of the drive was for Dish activities, the other 50% would be for the user.

UPDATE: The picture is the frist from this thread. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149512


----------



## bobukcat

timhk said:


> Any OTA support?


Since it's called a 922 and not a 922k I believe it has built in OTA (not an optional add-on module) and based on the 5 inputs quote I believe it will be two OTA tuners along with the two SAT and web content. Of course I have not real data to back it up other than what I've stated.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

All things considered... folks paid $250 to get the first ViP622 leases... I paid $150 myself I believe, but got a partial credit back on the bill for a while.

If it truly is $199 to lease, and existing customers can hop on board when it releases... I might be early in line. I purposefully never considered getting a 722 for more capacity because of the rumor mill on the now dubbed 922.

This sounds just too cool to me. I can't imagine not wanting this one when it comes available.


----------



## James Long

bobukcat said:


> Since it's called a 922 and not a 922k I believe it has built in OTA (not an optional add-on module) and based on the 5 inputs quote I believe it will be two OTA tuners along with the two SAT and web content. Of course I have not real data to back it up other than what I've stated.


The photo of the back of the unit shows a blank panel where the tuner module can be inserted.


Click to Zoom


Click to Zoom


----------



## GrumpyBear

199 is a very good deal, as long as current users get that same leased price.
Granted I bet they limit it to 1 a house hold for awhile.


----------



## Steve

HobbyTalk said:


> You should be able to record 2 OTA and 2 Sat channels at the same time.


Wow. Do the current VIP's allow 4 tuner recordings ATM? /steve


----------



## James Long

Steve said:


> Wow. Do the current VIP's allow 4 tuner recordings ATM? /steve


The three year old ViP 622 and the newer ViP 612 and ViP 722 allow three recordings at a time (one OTA, two sat). All three can be HD recordings.

The soon to be released 722k will have the same tuner module as the 922 and will be able to record 4 HDs at the same time (two OTA, two sat).


----------



## Steve

James Long said:


> The three year old ViP 622 and the newer ViP 612 and ViP 722 allow three recordings at a time (one OTA, two sat). All three can be HD recordings.
> 
> The soon to be released 722k will have the same tuner module as the 922 and will be able to record 4 HDs at the same time (two OTA, two sat).


Thanks, James. That's awesome. Any word on which CPU is inside the 722k and 922? I'm guessing it's the BCM7400. /steve


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Looks pretty cool. Lets hope D* comes out with something like this soon.

Not sure if I like that remote though, seems like it would take longer to change channels.


----------



## mongo

Grentz said:


> Thats a bit harsh. Instead of new models for new features, Directv is pushing software updates for all models (HR20/21/22/23) with new features and they are working up to things.
> 
> Directv2PC, Widgets, OnDemand, Quicktune, MediaShare, are all things that have been added and are improving.
> 
> I hope this will be a push for Directv to work on a new HD version of the gui for their receivers though


It's not harsh, its just the way I feel. Those features do not mean much to me. I do not see DirecTV innovating much, and this has some features that would be important to me.


----------



## JConly

Oh cool. More monthly fees.


----------



## HobbyTalk

JConly said:


> Oh cool. More monthly fees.


what extra fees?


----------



## JConly

HobbyTalk said:


> what extra fees?


I'm sure they'll think of something.


----------



## James Long

JConly said:


> I'm sure they'll think of something.


Let's keep this thread facual, please.

It was actually part of the announcement that there would be no Sling fee.


----------



## JConly

James Long said:


> Let's keep this thread facual, please.
> 
> It was actually part of the announcement that there would be no Sling fee.


Well I'm glad to hear they don't plan a monthly "Sling" user fee. Or a one time "Sling" activation fee.


----------



## superfreddy

I wonder if we'll be able to transfer recorded programs to a 622 or 722 using homeplug


----------



## DustoMan

superfreddy said:


> I wonder if we'll be able to transfer recorded programs to a 622 or 722 using homeplug


It would have to be streaming and the 622 and 722 have a version of Homeplug that isn't fast enough for video so any streaming that could take place would be over Ethernet.


----------



## DustoMan

harsh said:


> Why would one want to use a Harmony One when you could have a touch pad remote with a satellite receiver for less than the price of a Harmony touch pad remote?


Because my Harmony One remote controls everything in my AV setup right now and I like my number pad. I don't want to go back to using two remotes all the time, it's bad enough that I have to use the PS3 remote when I want to watch a Blu-ray.

I haven't seen anything in the UI so far that requires the trackpad. I think it can be adapted as long as DISH doesn't take out the IR ports.


----------



## shortspark

I have a question about this contraption. I'm an old guy without any knowledge of sling blade or box or whatever the heck it is so take that in to consideration. I have a hunting camp in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY and tv reception is hit or miss on one, maybe two channels. If I use a laptop, can I plug it into the tv up there somehow and access and control my Dish in Texas through the 922? How can this possibly work? Do you have to have some wireless capability like wifi to do this? If so, it won't work because there is nothing for miles around the camp, no phone, no water, no electricity, no cable, no nothing. What I want to do is get a bunch of tv channels up there but only for a month out of the year. The only other way would put up a 60' tower with deep fringe antenna and even that would not bring in more than about five or six stations. Can someone tell me if the 922 could help me with this problem?


----------



## James Long

shortspark said:


> If I use a laptop, can I plug it into the tv up there somehow and access and control my Dish in Texas through the 922? How can this possibly work? Do you have to have some wireless capability like wifi to do this?


Yes. An internet connection is required (for connections outside of your home).

Sorry ... but no net = no use. It won't help with your particular problem.

It will help take the TV to the office or to a place that DOES have internet.


----------



## jclewter79

theratpatrol said:


> Looks pretty cool. Lets hope D* comes out with something like this soon.
> 
> Not sure if I like that remote though, seems like it would take longer to change channels.


They have already said that echostar is wanting to sell this to cable and D* so maybe you can get it for your service one day too.


----------



## jclewter79

Steve said:


> Bear with me, 'cause I use that other Sat company's gear and I'm not familiar with current VIP capability.  Are you saying that with the optional OTA you think it might be capable of 4 simultaneous tuner recordings? /steve


Should be able to record 4 and playback 2 different recordings at once.


----------



## ferris209

shortspark said:


> I have a question about this contraption. I'm an old guy without any knowledge of sling blade or box or whatever the heck it is so take that in to consideration. I have a hunting camp in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY and tv reception is hit or miss on one, maybe two channels. If I use a laptop, can I plug it into the tv up there somehow and access and control my Dish in Texas through the 922? How can this possibly work? Do you have to have some wireless capability like wifi to do this? If so, it won't work because there is nothing for miles around the camp, no phone, no water, no electricity, no cable, no nothing. What I want to do is get a bunch of tv channels up there but only for a month out of the year. The only other way would put up a 60' tower with deep fringe antenna and even that would not bring in more than about five or six stations. Can someone tell me if the 922 could help me with this problem?


Well, you can get a wireless card for your computer and IF you can tap into AT&T's 3g network while your out at the camp, then you can watch your "slinged" television on your laptop. Other than that your best bet would be getting a hold of a "surplus" or second hand dish and setting it up at your camp, or on a moveable pole, and just bring your whole receiver with you when you go.


----------



## jacmyoung

James Long said:


> The photo of the back of the unit shows a blank panel where the tuner module can be inserted.
> 
> 
> Click to Zoom
> 
> 
> Click to Zoom


Not to mention the slides clearly said, *OTA (Optional)*


----------



## jacmyoung

DustoMan said:


> It would have to be streaming and the 622 and 722 have a version of Homeplug that isn't fast enough for video so any streaming that could take place would be over Ethernet.


I think he was talking about copying from one to the other, not live streaming.

What is the speed limitation on the Homeplug? I thought it should have sufficient BW for HD streaming.


----------



## crrscott

Please don't release it till the bugs are worked out. I don't want to sell customers on it and then have problems.


----------



## jacmyoung

shortspark said:


> I have a question about this contraption. I'm an old guy without any knowledge of sling blade or box or whatever the heck it is so take that in to consideration. I have a hunting camp in the middle of nowhere in upstate NY and tv reception is hit or miss on one, maybe two channels. If I use a laptop, can I plug it into the tv up there somehow and access and control my Dish in Texas through the 922? How can this possibly work? Do you have to have some wireless capability like wifi to do this? If so, it won't work because there is nothing for miles around the camp, no phone, no water, no electricity, no cable, no nothing. What I want to do is get a bunch of tv channels up there but only for a month out of the year. The only other way would put up a 60' tower with deep fringe antenna and even that would not bring in more than about five or six stations. Can someone tell me if the 922 could help me with this problem?


Take a portable dish and the receiver with you, that is what people do at tailgate parties


----------



## lujan

harsh said:


> The Slingbox HD should appeal to you.I think this is extremely unlikely. At the point of TrueHD and DTS master, the audio starts taking up as much or more bandwidth as the video.


The Slingbox HD doesn't appeal to me because the difference between SD and HD is not noticeable with a small screen (computer monitor, laptop, etc.). I'm more interested in widescreen vs. fullscreen rather than SD vs. HD in a slingbox.


----------



## GrumpyBear

lujan said:


> The Slingbox HD doesn't appeal to me because the difference between SD and HD is not noticeable with a small screen (computer monitor, laptop, etc.). I'm more interested in widescreen vs. fullscreen rather than SD vs. HD in a slingbox.


You are not interested in HD at 16:9, but you want wide screen? 
SD in Widescreen is postage stamp in a 4:3 world. 
So you really are interested in the Slingbox HD not the SD Slingbox.


----------



## lujan

Does anyone know if the 922 will finally be HDMI 1.3 to receive the HDMI certification rather than what they've been using for years, "HD TV"?


----------



## thestaton

Chris Blount said:


> Here is some video of the 922 in action courtesy of Allen Noland. Thanks Allen!
> 
> WARNING: LARGE FILE! BROADBAND ONLY!
> 
> http://images.dbstalk.com/ces2009/922_in_action.wmv


Do you mind if I re host this? I've got access to some nice bandwidth.


----------



## lujan

GrumpyBear said:


> You are not interested in HD at 16:9, but you want wide screen?
> SD in Widescreen is postage stamp in a 4:3 world.
> So you really are interested in the Slingbox HD not the SD Slingbox.


Sorry, I guess I didn't explain myself correctly. For example, I bought the Pocket Dish about 16 months ago but returned it because it didn't capture HD (widescreen) shows in their original aspect ratio. It didn't matter to me whether it was HD or SD because of the small screen, but I did want to view the program in it's original aspect ratio (widescreen) for most primetime shows now.


----------



## RAD

GrumpyBear said:


> You are not interested in HD at 16:9, but you want wide screen?
> SD in Widescreen is postage stamp in a 4:3 world.
> So you really are interested in the Slingbox HD not the SD Slingbox.


FYI, I get a 16:9 image using my Slingbox Solo connected to a HR21.


----------



## HobbyTalk

crrscott said:


> Please don't release it till the bugs are worked out. I don't want to sell customers on it and then have problems.


They'll never release it then since the 622 still has a few bugs


----------



## Chris Blount

thestaton said:


> Do you mind if I re host this? I've got access to some nice bandwidth.


You will need to get with Allen Noland and get his permission however a copy will remain on our servers. Once you get permission, send me the link and I will post it with the other link.


----------



## bobukcat

jacmyoung said:


> Not to mention the slides clearly said, *OTA (Optional)*


So many slides, so little time. 

I wonder why they dropped the "k" off the back of the model number....


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> I think he was talking about copying from one to the other, not live streaming.


I know, and copying wouldn't be allowed. I'm saying that DISH would only allow streaming from one receiver to another for obvious reasons.



jacmyoung said:


> What is the speed limitation on the Homeplug? I thought it should have sufficient BW for HD streaming.


The theoretical speed is 14Mbps. But like most technology, it never reaches anywhere near that speed.


----------



## CoolGui

I'm really digging this 922, I just got a 722 maybe 6 months ago, I wonder what it's going to cost me to upgrade in "Spring"?


----------



## CoolGui

lujan said:


> The Slingbox HD doesn't appeal to me because the difference between SD and HD is not noticeable with a small screen (computer monitor, laptop, etc.). I'm more interested in widescreen vs. fullscreen rather than SD vs. HD in a slingbox.


Well SD is 320x240 so it is a big difference on a computer monitor/laptop. But since my upstream is limited, I don't care much about the HD either. I have had the slingbox classic for a few years now and love it. When you hook the slingbox up to the composite or S-Video inputs, you basically get 16:9 squashed to 4:3. You can view it correctly in the sling player by going to View > Zoom > Anamorphic. If you only want to watch SD 4:3 channels, you can set the zoom to Pillarbox (then get full screen on 4:3 monitor without bars) or you can set the zoom to NONE and use the Format button the remote to stretch the image. The easiest way is to use the zoom function in sling player however.


----------



## archer75

I actually want this to work in reverse. I don't care about getting video off of it, rather I want to play video from my server on it. I do that now with my HTPC but i'd rather have it all in one with the receiver.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

DustoMan said:


> The theoretical speed is 14Mbps. But like most technology, it never reaches anywhere near that speed.


Just for clarification (and knowledge I gained from another thread)...

The current ViP622/722 style receivers have HomePlug 1.0, which has the theoretical limit of 14Mbps. Most of us get far less than that in actual use (I've never seen above 3 myself when it works).

The new Duo922 is supposed to have a newer "Turbo" version of HomePlug... and should be more in the 85Mbps theoretical category. On my home network, using this level of a Sling Turbo adapter for my laptop I have seen upwards of 45Mbps and that would be more than sufficient for a nice HD stream.

So... Streaming from the new unit to another new unit OR a Sling Catcher or Laptop or computer should be fine for HD in your home... but streaming to an older ViP622/722 (if they ever enabled such a feature) would likely not work that well for the best HD streams.


----------



## William

lujan said:


> Does anyone know if the 922 will finally be HDMI 1.3 to receive the HDMI certification rather than what they've been using for years, "HD TV"?


The current DVRs are HDMI licensed ("certified") and are 1.1 compliant. Why do you want the 922 to be HDMI 1.2 compliant?  Is E* going to offer TrueHD audio and you know this?


----------



## jacmyoung

DustoMan said:


> I know, and copying wouldn't be allowed. I'm saying that DISH would only allow streaming from one receiver to another for obvious reasons...


E* said: "...the ability to transfer content within a home network." They did not say "streaming".

I agree with you copying may not be allowed, but "moving" (transfer) content can be done, in fact "transfer" is already available with the VIP/external HD, one can "move" content off the DVR onto the HD, then playback on another DVR at the same house.

Obviously streaming can be done from a remote location, just not "within a home network." At least this is how I read from the press release. I hope I am wrong.


----------



## lujan

CoolGui said:


> Well SD is 320x240 so it is a big difference on a computer monitor/laptop. But since my upstream is limited, I don't care much about the HD either. I have had the slingbox classic for a few years now and love it. When you hook the slingbox up to the composite or S-Video inputs, you basically get 16:9 squashed to 4:3. You can view it correctly in the sling player by going to View > Zoom > Anamorphic. If you only want to watch SD 4:3 channels, you can set the zoom to Pillarbox (then get full screen on 4:3 monitor without bars) or you can set the zoom to NONE and use the Format button the remote to stretch the image. The easiest way is to use the zoom function in sling player however.


Using the "zoom" feature is not viewing the show in the original/correct aspect ratio.


----------



## koralis

jacmyoung said:


> E* said: "...the ability to transfer content within a home network." They did not say "streaming".


They mentioned MP3s as a format, as one example. They may allow you to access your windows systems to pull MP3s onto the reciever. That's one example of transferring content, but it's not neccessarily a two-way street.

Still, they really should give people a "free" EHD license to move content to the new leased receiver if they upgrade.


----------



## jacmyoung

koralis said:


> ...Still, they really should give people a "free" EHD license to move content to the new leased receiver if they upgrade.


I agree, as long as it is within the home and no duplicate copy is made.


----------



## SaltiDawg

harsh said:


> Why would one want to use a Harmony One when you could have a touch pad remote with a satellite receiver for less than the price of a Harmony touch pad remote?


I'm betting you've never owned a Harmony/Logitech Remote.


----------



## SaltiDawg

DustoMan said:


> ... it's bad enough that I have to use the PS3 remote when I want to watch a Blu-ray. ...


I've tried a couple of the approaches to solving this. I settled on the IR4PS3 which attaches a small IR receiver to the Ckt Bd taken from the Sony OEM PS3 DVD Remote. It works 100% and allowed me to give away my PS3 DVD remote.

I've got one Harmony remote controlling my A/V gear, including the PS3 and Xbox 360 DVD/Netflix player.


----------



## jacmyoung

How much do you want to bet by the time 922 is widely available a third party fancy remote will be made to include the touchpad functions just for you 922 spoiled brats?


----------



## Marriner

the 922 looks delicious. can't wait to get my hands on one. It makes my ViP 622 look like a Model 'T'


----------



## Jolliec

harsh said:


> Why would one want to use a Harmony One when you could have a touch pad remote with a satellite receiver for less than the price of a Harmony touch pad remote?


Have you ever tried a Harmony One? Quite simply, it is the best remote that I have ever used, and I have used quite a few, including the very expensive touchscreens.


----------



## elbodude

Jolliec said:


> Have you ever tried a Harmony One? Quite simply, it is the best remote that I have ever used, and I have used quite a few, including the very expensive touchscreens.


Amen to that!!


----------



## robert koerner

I'm still waiting for smooth video play back from my 522. It seems to be a little better after I had to reformat the HD.

Bob


----------



## Maverickster

Jolliec said:


> Have you ever tried a Harmony One? Quite simply, it is the best remote that I have ever used, and I have used quite a few, including the very expensive touchscreens.


It's nice...it's a POS if you need RF like some of us do...but it's nice. The second they come out with an RF version (which, since their only significant CES announcement was the 1100, looks like it won't happen this year), I'll be the first in line...and will have an 890 for sale!

--Mav


----------



## FastNOC

Jolliec said:


> Have you ever tried a Harmony One? Quite simply, it is the best remote that I have ever used, and I have used quite a few, including the very expensive touchscreens.


I had the harmony 1000 Advanced (all touch screen, and $400.00). I sold it on ebay and bought a Harmony 1. I am VERY glad i did.

the touch screen is nice, but you get use to real buttons and they are sadly missed when you go to 100% touch. At least for me.

the '1' is by far the best remote I've ever owned.


----------



## jacmyoung

E* said the 922 can work with any other universal remote too, the touchpad remote is by default but still optional.

I can believe that because that is why you can use your iPhone as a remote, besides when you use Sling fucntions, there is no touchpad functions, you still see the standard remote on your PC, which means the 922 will work with the ususal "button-remote".


----------



## manzelmo

Is there anything about EPG integration? I would love to be able to get an online EPG for OTA. listed on the channel guide. Dish still can't/won't show what is on Create, instead they list what is on the other local PBS subchannel.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

It was bound to happen...

Last night I had a dream that I had the new 922 receiver and was getting it installed. I was going through the screens and trying to find the basketball game on to watch.

Strangely, though, my installer for some reason was John Travolta. Not sure what that means!


----------



## tnsprin

DustoMan said:


> ...
> 
> The theoretical speed is 14Mbps. But like most technology, it never reaches anywhere near that speed.


It is using HomePlug Turbo so the theoretical speed is 85Mbps.


----------



## William

I used a Harmony for while but found it limiting (also couldn't cut my projector on) and sold it. I bought a Pronto and it is in a whole different league. It is so much more customizable than the Harmony and has so many extra features.

Can't wait to program my Pronto (and iPhone and Mac Pro) for my 922.


----------



## Allen Noland

Chris Blount said:


> You will need to get with Allen Noland and get his permission however a copy will remain on our servers. Once you get permission, send me the link and I will post it with the other link.


Fine with me.


----------



## Jason Nipp

*Here's two images for the D* trolls to ponder over.... *



















Images courtesy of EchoStar Technologies, LLC.


----------



## jacmyoung

Can anyone confirm with E* that whether the TV3 live streaming from 922 is true HD (with sufficient upload speed) or "down sampled"?

My ATT Uverse just started to offer 18mbps download tier, but the upload is still a ridiculous 1.5mbps. I read the Slingcatcher specs said 1.5mbps upload optimum, but 1.5mbps cannot be good enough for true HD streaming, can it?

Nice reward, totally deserves it!


----------



## FastNOC

it's actually not a ridiculous limit.

Therre are two reasons for it. Well actually one big and one little.

Peering partners with bandwidth often only charge one way. meaning their download will be charged but their upload won't. By keeping you limited to t-1 speeds they don't incur huge bandwith charges. When you figure the peering and download, it flips it and becomes YOUR upload.

the second, they don't want people setting up web servers. most ISPs state right in their TOS that you aren't allowed to put any servers up. Web, mail etc. and even block ports to make it more difficult.

So don't expect higher upload caps anytime soon. Here I have to pay 150.00 per month to get 10mbps down, 1.5mbps up. In phoenix i pay more. But in that are3a my condo assoctiation did not allow any cable companies to pre-wire. so if you want cable, you only get sat./


----------



## Steve

jacmyoung said:


> Can anyone confirm with E* that whether the TV3 live streaming from 922 is true HD (with sufficient upload speed) or "down sampled"?
> 
> My ATT Uverse just started to offer 18mbps download tier, but the upload is still a ridiculous 1.5mbps. I read the Slingcatcher specs said 1.5mbps upload optimum, but 1.5mbps cannot be good enough for true HD streaming, can it?


Why would you need true HD streaming outside your home? Your provider only limits the speeds you can get to the public internet. What speeds you use inside your home are entirely up to your wired or wireless router configurations.

1.5 mbps is more than enough to transmit high quality video to a laptop or cell phone. If Sling does a good job at compression and transcoding, it's actually more than enough for high quality video inside the home to a 42" or smaller display at normal viewing distances, IMO.

/steve


----------



## mopzo

dodge boy said:


> Yeah I picked a bad time to get locked into a 2 year commitment with DirecTv.... I never cared for Dish's equipment but THIS COULD change that.....


Dish picks up NFLST?.....I'll switch tomorrow.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Internet features are kind of cool, most options of viewing via internet, really limit the usefulness of a HD stream. Start of next football season, I will report on how useful it is to broadcast football games, via the internet.


----------



## FastNOC

Steve said:


> Why would you need true HD streaming outside your home? Your provider only limits the speeds you can get to the public internet. What speeds you use inside your home are entirely up to your wired or wireless router configurations.
> 
> 1.5 mbps is more than enough to transmit high quality video to a laptop or cell phone. If Sling does a good job at compression and transcoding, it's actually more than enough for high quality video inside the home to a 42" or smaller display at normal viewing distances, IMO.
> 
> /steve


That depends on your definition of 'high quality' video. Full HD content takes *9mbps *to stream. LOTS higher than any ISP offers.

You also aren't going to get 9mbps from 802.11b. it's 12mbps but the overhead isn't going to sustain the stream. it also detects collisions from interference and that reduces the stream.

So you'd need at minimum 'g'. but I don't think anyone even sells 'b' stuff anymore, so that should be fine.

But this is internal network only. there is *no way* anyone is going to stream hd over the web with regular home ISP. you'd need much heavier uploads, and youd' be looking at stuff like T3 which is 33mbps.

Does anyone know what the upload cap is for Fios? I've heard 10mbps so you could do it with that in theory but I have no clue how 'true' those speeds would be, or, the just as important issue of QOS. Actually 10 wouldn't be enough when considering overhead.


----------



## GrumpyBear

mopzo said:


> Dish picks up NFLST?.....I'll switch tomorrow.


I would have switched to Direct for NFLST, except for the key missing features on the HR2x. DLB, PiP, Autotune, Reliable Guide info, Record from this point forward. 
Why spend that much money on NFLST, if you can't watch the games in style? Plus for College Football season which is free, DLB and PiP are essential for being able to ensure you get to keep an eye on the beginning of one game while watching, the exciting ending of a different game.


----------



## jacmyoung

FastNOC said:


> it's actually not a ridiculous limit.
> 
> Therre are two reasons for it. Well actually one big and one little.
> 
> Peering partners with bandwidth often only charge one way. meaning their download will be charged but their upload won't. By keeping you limited to t-1 speeds they don't incur huge bandwith charges. When you figure the peering and download, it flips it and becomes YOUR upload.
> 
> the second, they don't want people setting up web servers. most ISPs state right in their TOS that you aren't allowed to put any servers up. Web, mail etc. and even block ports to make it more difficult.
> 
> So don't expect higher upload caps anytime soon. Here I have to pay 150.00 per month to get 10mbps down, 1.5mbps up. In phoenix i pay more. But in that are3a my condo assoctiation did not allow any cable companies to pre-wire. so if you want cable, you only get sat./


First off their most basic Express tier has up to 1.5mbps download and 1mbps upload.

Second yes there is a balance between up and down BW share, but an 18mbps up and 1.5mbps down is a pathetic imbalance.

Thirdly Fios has up to 6mbps upload I think.

Lastly the new MPEG4 compression can deliver good 1080i HD using about 6mbps BW, at least this is what E* on average provides for their HD channels.


----------



## GrumpyBear

What I would like to know, from those that have seen the 922, or those who may see it sooner than the rest of us.
1. What kind of improvements well we have over DLB and PiP? (Quad Live Buffers??? talk about Drooling)
2. What kind of alternative remotes will be able to work with the 922.
3. Will we be forced to always Minimize the show you are watching and use the new guide? I currently hardly ever use the Guide, I do it with the browse feature, and do all browsing with the overlay that comes up, on the 622's.


----------



## jacmyoung

Steve said:


> Why would you need true HD streaming outside your home? Your provider only limits the speeds you can get to the public internet. What speeds you use inside your home are entirely up to your wired or wireless router configurations.
> 
> 1.5 mbps is more than enough to transmit high quality video to a laptop or cell phone. If Sling does a good job at compression and transcoding, it's actually more than enough for high quality video inside the home to a 42" or smaller display at normal viewing distances, IMO.
> 
> /steve


The question has a lot to do with figuring out if Sling can do full HD streaming or not, if their goal is for streaming to laptops or iPhones only, their trascoding capability maybe limited to satisfying a 1.5mbps max pipeline.

If so the 922 may not be able to do true HD MRV at home no matter how fast your in-home network speed is.


----------



## Steve

FastNOC said:


> That depends on your definition of 'high quality' video. Full HD content takes *9mbps *to stream. LOTS higher than any ISP offers.
> 
> You also aren't going to get 9mbps from 802.11b. it's 12mbps but the overhead isn't going to sustain the stream. it also detects collisions from interference and that reduces the stream.


Ya, I know what full HD requires, and it's actually more on the order of 11 mbps for E*'s MPEG-2, less for D*'s MPEG-4. But I'm assuming folks will want to use TV3 inside the home for MRV purposes. While certainly not "true HD", based on my own experience, 1-2 mpbs is more than enough for high quality 16:9 video on a 42" or smaller display at normal viewing distances. It can be DVD quality or better, if done right. And in that case, wireless G will suffice.

/steve


----------



## FastNOC

jacmyoung said:


> First off their most basic Express tier has up to 1.5mbps download and 1mbps upload.
> 
> Second yes there is a balance between up and down BW share, but an 18mbps up and 1.5mbps down is a pathetic imbalance.
> 
> Thirdly Fios has up to 6mbps upload I think.
> 
> Lastly the new MPEG4 compression can deliver good 1080i HD using about 6mbps BW, at least this is what E* on average provides for their HD channels.


it's only a pathetic imbalance if you don't understand why it's there to begin with. I mean I understand the frustration, but unless you want to pay thousands per month it's not going to be anywhere close.

Unless that is, you can get fios. I just checked and their max is 50mbps down, 20mbps up which is just incredible.


----------



## Steve

jacmyoung said:


> The question has a lot to do with figuring out if Sling can do full HD streaming or not, if their goal is for streaming to laptops or iPhones only, their trascoding capability maybe limited to satisfying a 1.5mbps max pipeline.


Than why were you complaining about U-Verse upload speeds?

If Sling can do full HD, that's a home network bandwidth issue. /steve


----------



## jacmyoung

Steve said:


> Than why were you complaining about U-Verse upload speeds?


Why not? It's pathetic for a top tier.


----------



## Steve

FastNOC said:


> it's only a pathetic imbalance if you don't understand why it's there to begin with. I mean I understand the frustration, but unless you want to pay thousands per month it's not going to be anywhere close.


It's not quite that expensive.  FiOS, e.g., offers 20/5 plans for $55/month, and 20/20 for $65/month. But I agree with you. Unless you're running a web server and/or business from home, why do you need all that outgoing bandwidth? Certainly not for streaming Sling video to a cell phone.  /steve


----------



## FastNOC

Steve said:


> It's not quite that expensive.  FiOS, e.g., offers 20/5 plans for $55/month, and 20/20 for $65/month. But I agree with you. Unless you're running a web server and/or business from home, why do you need all that outgoing bandwidth? Certainly not for streaming Sling video to a cell phone.  /steve


yeah. I left the exception for Fios. Actually i edited the post before I saw yours 

50 down and 20 up is just unreal. But it's VERY limited in availability. i know once i can get it I will. no matter what.

But the only other way would be to get a t3 at 4 or 5 grand a month lol.

Like you said though, it's not needed.

P.S. I am extremely jealous that you have FIOS. Id run the damn Fiber to the CO myself if I could get it


----------



## jacmyoung

FastNOC said:


> yeah. I left the exception for Fios. Actually i edited the post before I saw yours
> 
> 50 down and 20 up is just unreal. But it's VERY limited in availability. i know once i can get it I will. no matter what.
> 
> But the only other way would be to get a t3 at 4 or 5 grand a month lol.
> 
> Like you said though, it's not needed.


So now let's not argue if it can be done or not, rather if it is needed.

If it is not needed, why whould Fios offer 50/20 and why would anyone want that 50/20 top tier? Too much money to burn?

Now we know technically full HD streaming can be done, if you are saying but no one needs it, then not too long ago we were told no one needed more than 50/10 kbps down/up speed.


----------



## Steve

FastNOC said:


> P.S. I am extremely jealous that you have FIOS. Id run the damn Fiber to the CO myself if I could get it


I'm an early adopter who's grandfathered at 10/2 for $37/month. I use Vonage for phone and DirecTV. My son and two sisters have FiosTV, however, and they all get 20/5 as part of their "triple play" packages. /steve


----------



## jacmyoung

Steve said:


> ...why do you need all that outgoing bandwidth? Certainly not for streaming Sling video to a cell phone.  /steve


I don't care for streaming video on a laptop or a cell phone, but I do not mind if I can bring my SlingCatcher with me and go visit my relatives or to a hotel while still able to watch my TV service from home in full HD on a 50" screen.


----------



## James Long

jacmyoung said:


> I don't care for streaming video on a laptop or a cell phone, but I do not mind if I can bring my SlingCatcher with me and go visit my relatives or to a hotel while still able to watch my TV service from home in full HD on a 50" screen.


Then it is an issue for your ISP ...

The SlingBox CAN handle high quality HD slinging ... scaled back to whatever the network connections allow. Think about it as owning the fastest car in the world. The car is still the fastest car in the world whether you drive it on the autobahn or in a 25 mph school zone. Do you dis the car because you're in a school zone or dis the car?

Hopefully this discussion can be about the car ... or rather the Slingloaded DVR ... and not the school zone (or ISP). Knowing that the Sling feature WILL scale back to allow the best quality that the connection will allow is good. It is a much better reaction than choking out the connection with too much data.


----------



## harsh

FastNOC said:


> That depends on your definition of 'high quality' video. Full HD content takes *9mbps *to stream.


Perhaps you can explain all the excitement over Canon going from 17Mbps to 24Mbps with their new flash memory based consumer HD camcorder? They use a very similar codec.


----------



## harsh

jacmyoung said:


> Now we know technically full HD streaming can be done, if you are saying but no one needs it, then not too long ago we were told no one needed more than 50/10 kbps down/up speed.


Nobody thought much of more than 4GB of RAM until Vista hit the fan.

The part that I don't get is that many of those who argue what is needed seem inclined to assume that they are operating alone in their homes. While for some that may be true, it isn't true for a majority of the populace.


----------



## Steve

jacmyoung said:


> I don't care for streaming video on a laptop or a cell phone, but I do not mind if I can bring my SlingCatcher with me and go visit my relatives or to a hotel while still able to watch my TV service from home in full HD on a 50" screen.


Well if that's what you want, then just pay whatever your ISP wants for 2 mpbs service, because according to the current Sling Pro HD tech specs, they do it by transcoding to 1.5 mpbs. If transcoded properly, that's DVD quality or better on my 50" plasma, which would be more than enough quality for me while away from home. /steve


----------



## FastNOC

harsh said:


> Perhaps you can explain all the excitement over Canon going from 17Mbps to 24Mbps with their new flash memory based consumer HD camcorder? They use a very similar codec.


these are two tdifferent animals. The camera is recording RAW footage (it is still AVCHD at those 17 and 24mbps rates) it's it's raw footage and there is little or no compression at those bit rates. Unlike watching an hd movie from Dish. Dish compresses the HD streams and reduces the quality slightly using compression so it doesn't take as much bandwidth. But raw recordings are a different story. the biggest plus using those high rates for the camcorders is that high motion takes, lots of activity, are very clear and there's no blips.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Slingcatcher still has to be connected to the Slingbox, Network style. In a hotel or at family, its still via the internet for everything else


----------



## jacmyoung

Steve said:


> Well if that's what you want, then just pay whatever your ISP wants for 2 mpbs service, because according to the current Sling Pro HD tech specs, they do it by transcoding to 1.5 mpbs. If transcoded properly, that's DVD quality or better on my 50" plasma, which would be more than enough quality for me while away from home. /steve


But I want better

Just because you are fine with DVD quality on a 50" does not mean everyone must accept the same, if I understand you correctly when you asked, why would anyone need it?

Another point is, and you seem to have confirmed my fear, that the current Sling cannot stream true HD, no matter how good is my broadband or home network speed. Meaning the 922 still cannot do true HD whole home viewing.

It is of course better than the old VIPs, now it does one main true HD, one TV2 SD, and the third TV3 (Sling) in up to DVD quality.


----------



## James Long

You're missing the point ... and blaming the receiver for the limitations of the ISP.


----------



## jacmyoung

James Long said:


> You're missing the point ... and blaming the receiver for the limitations of the ISP.


The point was Sling is limited to transcoding up to 1.5mbps, which is not true HD, even if you consider the more efficient MPEG4 compression.

In another word, Sling is not the fastest car (Bluray), not even the second (1080p/24 DBS), the third (Fios HD) or the 4th (MPEG4/MPEG2 DBS/cable HD) or the 5th (ATT Uverse HD) fastest car


----------



## Steve

jacmyoung said:


> But I want better


Well then you'll probably have to wait 10 or 20 years until the kind of bandwidth you want is ubiquitous.

Regarding True HD, I'm not about to dismiss a product I haven't tried yet, but if you're ready to do so, feel free to start your own negative thread on the subject. /steve


----------



## James Long

jacmyoung said:


> In another word, Sling is not the fastest car (Bluray), not even the second (1080p/24 DBS), the third (Fios HD) or the 4th (MPEG4/MPEG2 DBS/cable HD) or the 5th (ATT Uverse HD) fastest car


It is the fastest car available - direct streaming of personally stored content. The others are airplanes.


----------



## jacmyoung

Steve said:


> Well then you'll probably have to wait 10 or 20 years until the kind of bandwidth you want is ubiquitous.
> 
> Regarding True HD, I'm not about to dismiss a product I haven't tried yet, but if you're ready to do so, feel free to start your own negative thread on the subject. /steve


We have already concluded we need not to wait, Fios upload speed is up to 20mbps and at $65/mo. more than reasonable and enough to do true HD transcoding.

I never asked you to dismiss anything, I love to get my hands on the 922 too, the question was, can 922 do true HD MRV? While you and I cannot be certain, both of us seem to at least suspect the answer is a no.


----------



## jacmyoung

James Long said:


> It is the fastest car available - direct streaming of personally stored content. The others are airplanes.


Ok then, technically there is no reason Sling cannot be an airplane, but somehow for now they have decided to stay on the pavement.


----------



## James Long

jacmyoung said:


> Ok then, technically there is no reason Sling cannot be an airplane, but somehow for now they have decided to stay on the pavement.


If you don't like the product buy something else.


----------



## jacmyoung

James Long said:


> If you don't like the product...


Jump to conclusion


----------



## Steve

jacmyoung said:


> The question was, can 922 do true HD MRV? While you and I cannot be certain, both of us seem to at least suspect the answer is a no.


I don't care what the specs are. I'll judge the product after I see the results. /steve


----------



## jacmyoung

Steve said:


> I don't care what the specs are. I'll judge the product after I see the results. /steve


If you do not care about facts, only your feelings, I have no problem with that at all, I was seeking facts, you provided or confirmed most of such facts, thank you for that.

I have my feelings too you know, in fact I do not have to wait to judge after I see the results, I had used E* HD DVRs before, still have a 625, I know they are good, in fact better than the D* DVRs


----------



## BobaBird

bobukcat said:


> Since it's called a 922 and not a 922k I believe it has built in OTA (not an optional add-on module)


It accepts the same 2-tuner OTA module as the "k" dual-tuner receivers.


> I wonder why they dropped the "k" off the back of the model number....


Didn't think to ask, although I was told the 922 is essentially the same as the 722k but with Sling and a totally new GUI and front panel.


steve said:


> Wow. Do the current VIP's allow 4 tuner recordings ATM?


The 722k will when it becomes current which should be in a few months as 722 inventory is depleted.


> Any word on which CPU is inside the 722k and 922? I'm guessing it's the BCM7400


Correct for both. The 622/722 has the BCM 7038.


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> E* said the 922 can work with any other universal remote too, the touchpad remote is by default but still optional.
> 
> I can believe that because that is why you can use your iPhone as a remote, besides when you use Sling fucntions, there is no touchpad functions, you still see the standard remote on your PC, which means the 922 will work with the ususal "button-remote".


Oh thank GOD! I was worried it would be supported. I was telling my wife about the whole remote doesn't have a number pad thing and she was as resistant to it as I am. I can't wait to use this with my Harmony One.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> The point was Sling is limited to transcoding up to 1.5mbps, which is not true HD, even if you consider the more efficient MPEG4 compression.
> 
> In another word, Sling is not the fastest car (Bluray), not even the second (1080p/24 DBS), the third (Fios HD) or the 4th (MPEG4/MPEG2 DBS/cable HD) or the 5th (ATT Uverse HD) fastest car


Ok,
Slingbox will sling at 9mb's on Home Network, explain how its not the fastest car? Granted over the internet it is limited to 1.5mb, but show me how Blu-Ray is faster over the internet in broadcasting to remote devices? Granted I am not sure how BluRay will even broadcast to remote devices on the same HomeNetwork, let alone over the internet.


----------



## dvrblogger

jacmyoung said:


> But I want better
> 
> Just because you are fine with DVD quality on a 50" does not mean everyone must accept the same, if I understand you correctly when you asked, why would anyone need it?
> 
> Another point is, and you seem to have confirmed my fear, that the current Sling cannot stream true HD, no matter how good is my broadband or home network speed. Meaning the 922 still cannot do true HD whole home viewing.
> 
> It is of course better than the old VIPs, now it does one main true HD, one TV2 SD, and the third TV3 (Sling) in up to DVD quality.


I have SLING pro HD and qua;ity even at 8 mbps is nowhere near original HD quality but it is better than SD.


----------



## jacmyoung

dvrblogger said:


> I have SLING pro HD and qua;ity even at 8 mbps is nowhere near original HD quality but it is better than SD.


I don't even watch SD anymore, it has to be much better than SD to get my attention these days. If you are right, this is really sad.

But if the Sling HD Pro can do up to 9mbps as Grumpybear said, why is there a limitation of 1.5mbps for internet streaming? Political reason?


----------



## Steve

BobaBird said:


> It accepts the same 2-tuner OTA module as the "k" dual-tuner receivers.
> Didn't think to ask, although I was told the 922 is essentially the same as the 722k but with Sling and a totally new GUI and front panel.
> The 722k will when it becomes current which should be in a few months as 722 inventory is depleted.
> Correct for both. The 622/722 has the BCM 7038.


Thx for the info!  Too bad the 722k couldn't share the same GUI and remote as the 922. /steve


----------



## jacmyoung

jacmyoung said:


> I don't even watch SD anymore, it has to be much better than SD to get my attention these days. If you are right, this is really sad.
> 
> But if the Sling HD Pro can do up to 9mbps as Grumpybear said, why is there a limitation of 1.5mbps for internet streaming? Political reason?


But wait, I don't think you can use Sling HD Pro to judge the HD streaming quality can you? My understand is the Sling HD Pro only provides the signal source so one can watch it on a PC or a mobile phone.

The new SlingCatcher is the one that is on the receiving end, even has an HDMI output, can be connceted to an HD set. Can the SlingCatcher accept up to 9mbps streaming from the Sling HD Pro? If so the result may be entirely different.

Found the answer for the SlingCatcher on the Sling Media site:



> Access live or recorded video from any device connected to your Slingbox.
> Currently supported streaming resolutions vary from 320x240 to 640x480, depending on network connections and Slingbox in use.
> *HD Streaming from a Slingbox ProHD is not supported at this time.*


There is still hope it may do true HD in the future.


----------



## archer75

Any word on OTA tuners on this?


----------



## harsh

archer75 said:


> Any word on OTA tuners on this?


Think 722K.


----------



## Jason Nipp

archer75 said:


> Any word on OTA tuners on this?


 Going to be an optional plug in module.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Did anybody see the "partial EPG"? I sure hope its similar to the onscreen guide we have now, I hardly ever use the full guide now. The Internet tuner, was kind of interesting, until yesterday, then it became VERY INTERESTING. 
NFL.com commerical during the San Diego/Pittsburg game, said starting next year, you will be able to watch any game in HD, once its completed from the NFL.com/HD website.
Now if the Internet Tuner is as good as, my Xbox360 and Netflix is for HD content, I will be ONE very happy camper. 
At 1st I was just thinking about the internet tuner for watching episodes of shows I missed, on CBS or whatever, not just for youtube type sites. I didn't consider it being used with Netflix or Blockbuster, would be nice, but now that the NFL has come out with this feature for its games, and in HD. The Internet Tuner now has a real purpose in life, not just a novelty purpose


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Did anybody see the "partial EPG"? I sure hope its similar to the onscreen guide we have now, I hardly ever use the full guide now. The Internet tuner, was kind of interesting, until yesterday, then it became VERY INTERESTING.
> NFL.com commerical during the San Diego/Pittsburg game, said starting next year, you will be able to watch any game in HD, once its completed from the NFL.com/HD website.
> Now if the Internet Tuner is as good as, my Xbox360 and Netflix is for HD content, I will be ONE very happy camper.
> At 1st I was just thinking about the internet tuner for watching episodes of shows I missed, on CBS or whatever, not just for youtube type sites. I didn't consider it being used with Netflix or Blockbuster, would be nice, but now that the NFL has come out with this feature for its games, and in HD. The Internet Tuner now has a real purpose in life, not just a novelty purpose


Depending on how soon those games may be replayed, E* may be able to have its own version of the ST, "tape delayed", for free


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> But wait, I don't think you can use Sling HD Pro to judge the HD streaming quality can you? My understand is the Sling HD Pro only provides the signal source so one can watch it on a PC or a mobile phone.
> 
> The new SlingCatcher is the one that is on the receiving end, even has an HDMI output, can be connceted to an HD set. Can the SlingCatcher accept up to 9mbps streaming from the Sling HD Pro? If so the result may be entirely different.
> 
> Found the answer for the SlingCatcher on the Sling Media site:
> 
> There is still hope it may do true HD in the future.


SlingProHD does do HD to computers on the same home network, and as for the slingcatcher, not sure if the website is upto date, as the Video seems to be different than the marketing notes. Granted it might be that the slingcatcher works with both SD and HD Sling machines, you will only be able to sling HD to a ViP or Computer able to view HD content.


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> Can the SlingCatcher accept up to 9mbps streaming from the Sling HD Pro? If so the result may be entirely different.
> 
> Found the answer for the SlingCatcher on the Sling Media site:
> 
> There is still hope it may do true HD in the future.





GrumpyBear said:


> SlingProHD does do HD to computers on the same home network, and as for the slingcatcher, not sure if the website is upto date, as the Video seems to be different than the marketing notes. Granted it might be that the slingcatcher works with both SD and HD Sling machines, you will only be able to sling HD to a ViP or Computer able to view HD content.


They are working on it:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/0...s-reportedly-on-the-way-cheers-heard-all-ove/


----------



## jacmyoung

Great news thank you!

Now 1280x540p is not HD, I hope they do get to 1920x1080 soon.

Just called ATT to get the Uverse top tier 18mbps/1.5mbps, same price I was paying for 10/1.5 before. Here is hope by the time Sling does true HD, they up the upload speed, I do not mind a 10/10 split


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> Great news thank you!
> 
> Now 1280x540p is not HD, I hope they do get to 1920x1080 soon.
> 
> Just called ATT to get the Uverse top tier 18mbps/1.5mbps, same price I was paying for 10/1.5 before. Here is hope by the time Sling does true HD, they up the upload speed, I do not mind a 10/10 split


Well some testing has already happened and as here is a review without HDMI included, and the 922 will have HDMI.

The component video connections of the Slingbox Pro-HD have no trouble processing HD video (720p and 1080i, but not 1080p). An HDMI connector would've been nice, but that would introduce pesky copyright protection and digital-rights management issues. Nevertheless, be aware that some cable boxes can't support parallel HD video output (simultaneous HDMI and component video), so if you already have the cable box connected via HDMI, you might need to use component (passed through the Slingbox to the TV).

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-med...x-pro/4505-6739_7-32815136.html?tag=mncol;lst

Looks like things are closer than we think.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Well some testing has already happened and as here is a review without HDMI included, and the 922 will have HDMI.
> 
> The component video connections of the Slingbox Pro-HD have no trouble processing HD video (720p and 1080i, but not 1080p). An HDMI connector would've been nice, but that would introduce pesky copyright protection and digital-rights management issues. Nevertheless, be aware that some cable boxes can't support parallel HD video output (simultaneous HDMI and component video), so if you already have the cable box connected via HDMI, you might need to use component (passed through the Slingbox to the TV).
> 
> http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-med...x-pro/4505-6739_7-32815136.html?tag=mncol;lst
> 
> Looks like things are closer than we think.


I read that review before, it did not mean anything because they could only test it on a PC. Back then they did not even have the SlingCatcher to test the picture on an HDTV set.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> I read that review before, it did not mean anything because they could only test it on a PC. Back then they did not even have the SlingCatcher to test the picture on an HDTV set.


Yes, but now they can connect to existing ViP 622/722's, that can process HD, unlike a pass through device like the simple catcher.


----------



## Steve

Broadcom announced a new CPU at CES that offers some similar capabilities to what was announced by Dish for the 922. I wonder if in fact the 922 isn't being built around this chip? DLNA compliance and RF capability that allows for a wireless exchange of data with the receiver. (The 922 can apparently wirelessly back-up timers inside the remote.)

Details on the BCM7420 can be found here.

If so, this chipset also offers MoCa support, which means it's possible the 922 may be able to support ethernet over coax at some point in the future as well.

That would leave only one question (though only _Honeymooners _fans might get it): "Can it core a apple?" :lol:

/steve


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Yes, but now they can connect to existing ViP 622/722's, that can process HD, unlike a pass through device like the simple catcher.


They were connecting the Sling ProHD to various HD receivers and HD DVRs for testing, no different than connecting to the VIP622/722s. With only the Sling ProHD, the remote viewing can only be done on a PC/laptop or a video phone.

Only after the SlingCatcher became available (which was no so at the time of the test) could you connect it to an HDTV set at the remote location.

The pass through issue they were talking about was regarding the HD set next to the HD DVR for testing, the main TV not the remote TV. The limitation was since some of the cable HD DVRs did not have the HDMI and component live at the same time, the HD output had to "pass through" the Sling. With all the satellite HD DVRs having both HDMI and component live, there was no pass through issue, if the TV can take the HDMI, and the Sling takes the component input.

But the issue had nothing to do with if the remote location could get true HD or not.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> They were connecting the Sling ProHD to various HD receivers and HD DVRs for testing, no different than connecting to the VIP622/722s. With only the Sling ProHD, the remote viewing can only be done on a PC/laptop or a video phone.
> 
> Only after the SlingCatcher became available (which was no so at the time of the test) could you connect it to an HDTV set at the remote location.
> 
> The pass through issue they were talking about was regarding the HD set next to the HD DVR for testing, the main TV not the remote TV. The limitation was since some of the cable HD DVRs did not have the HDMI and component live at the same time, the HD output had to "pass through" the Sling. With all the satellite HD DVRs having both HDMI and component live, there was no pass through issue, if the TV can take the HDMI, and the Sling takes the component input.
> 
> But the issue had nothing to do with if the remote location could get true HD or not.


Wrong way for connection. IN the PAST they couldn't sling out to a ViP 622/722. The ViP 622/722 was the Source, not the reciever. Now the ViP 622/722 can be the reciever instead of the source. ViP can decode and and process more than the slingcatcher ever could imagine.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Wrong way for connection. IN the PAST they couldn't sling out to a ViP 622/722. The ViP 622/722 was the Source, not the reciever. Now the ViP 622/722 can be the reciever instead of the source. ViP can decode and and process more than the slingcatcher ever could imagine.


We have been talking about the HD programming coming out of the HD DVRs and whether such can be delivered to a remote location in true HD fasion.

I have not looked into the reverse streaming issue so cannot comment on that yet.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> We have been talking about the HD programming coming out of the HD DVRs and whether such can be delivered to a remote location in true HD fasion.
> 
> I have not looked into the reverse streaming issue so cannot comment on that yet.


We already know that the SlingproHD, can send out a HD stream on the Home Network. Your focus has been on the slingcatcher not being able to except and pass through this HD signal, like a computer can except, the HD Stream on the Home Network. Like Computers, the Dish ViP's can except and process HD signal's. Most people with a ViP 722/622 will be able to take advantage of this, in thier Home Network. Right now I want more info on the Internet tuner, more than anything else. What it works with and what it wont work with. For those with the correct download speeds, this could really be a great Tuner.
Most of the rest of the features, are just an expansion or merging of already existing technologies.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> We already know that the SlingproHD, can send out a HD stream on the Home Network. Your focus has been on the slingcatcher not being able to except and pass through this HD signal, like a computer can except, the HD Stream on the Home Network. Like Computers, the Dish ViP's can except and process HD signal's. Most people with a ViP 722/622 will be able to take advantage of this, in thier Home Network. Right now I want more info on the Internet tuner, more than anything else. What it works with and what it wont work with. For those with the correct download speeds, this could really be a great Tuner.
> Most of the rest of the features, are just an expansion or merging of already existing technologies.


Can you provide a link where they talked about the VIP622/722 decoding web based HD content fed in from the ethernet port?


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> Can you provide a link where they talked about the VIP622/722 decoding web based HD content fed in from the ethernet port?


Quit confusing Web based, vs home networking. Most of us, have been talking about Home Network, we all realize, no matter what can be sent, there are far to many limitations from ISP's, to send that kind of stream out.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Quit confusing Web based, vs home networking. Most of us, have been talking about Home Network, we all realize, no matter what can be sent, there are far to many limitations from ISP's, to send that kind of stream out.


Ok then, can you provide a link where they talked about a VIP622 or 722's ethernet port can be plugged into a home network CAT5 terminal and playback any true HD content and from what source?

The only thing I know is they can use the ethernet connection to download HD VODs from E*, no need of help from Sling.


----------



## James Long

jacmyoung said:


> The only thing I know is they can use the ethernet connection to download HD VODs from E*, no need of help from Sling.


I hope you can see that if we relied solely on your knowledge it would be easy to dismiss this new product.

Be patent. More information will be forthcoming as the product nears release. Don't expect full technical information within a week of release.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> Ok then, can you provide a link where they talked about a VIP622 or 722's ethernet port can be plugged into a home network CAT5 terminal and playback any true HD content and from what source?
> 
> The only thing I know is they can use the ethernet connection to download HD VODs from E*, no need of help from Sling.


*For DISH Network customers with select DVRs, SlingGuide will provide a personal, integrated and centralized view of everything you want to watch or record on DISH Network including programming from hundreds of channels, thousands of programming choices, and even internet video from Sling.com.

The following is a list of DISH Network DVRS that are expected to be compatible with SlingGuide at launch.*

HD DuoDVRTM SlingLoadedTM ViP® 922 (Just Announced)
DuoDVR™ ViP® 722k
DuoDVR™ ViP® 722
DuoDVR™ ViP® 622

*Receivers require a broadband network connection to use SlingGuide.*

So they some plans in the works, you could always reread the launch. Sure looks like they are going to leveage the installed base of ViP622/722 DVR's.
Still not enough information on the Internet Tuner, hope more is coming soon. Hopefully we can get these before Sept too.h


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> *For DISH Network customers with select DVRs, SlingGuide will provide a personal, integrated and centralized view of everything you want to watch or record on DISH Network including programming from hundreds of channels, thousands of programming choices, and even internet video from Sling.com.
> 
> The following is a list of DISH Network DVRS that are expected to be compatible with SlingGuide at launch.*
> 
> HD DuoDVRTM SlingLoadedTM ViP® 922 (Just Announced)
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 722k
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 722
> DuoDVR™ ViP® 622
> 
> *Receivers require a broadband network connection to use SlingGuide.*
> 
> So they some plans in the works, you could always reread the launch. Sure looks like they are going to leveage the installed base of ViP622/722 DVR's.
> Still not enough information on the Internet Tuner, hope more is coming soon. Hopefully we can get these before Sept too.h


I read that too, the only thing added is the ability to download video from Sling.com, not surprising at all. There is no HD on Sling.com and I do not expect they will be able to get much real HD shows because for one thing, the content owners do not like to spread their content in true HD format around on the Internet, and even if they do, usually through a secured licensed carrier for HD PPV revenue.

DirecTV HD DVRs can already stream Youtube and many other online video services now which offer many similar shows like Sling.com, and no HD BTW, mostly lower than SD, that is why I did not take that particular part of press release seriously.

The most significant development will still be the ability for true HD streaming from a Sling HD box to the SlingCatcher, so one can watch true HD recorded on your 922 or 622/722 either on a home network or on the road.

We are not there yet according to the above report linked by DustoMan, but they are working toward that end.

BTW it does not use an "Internet tuner", it is simply a receiver capable of displaying web content, again as I said the DirecTV HD DVRs can do so already. For example I sometimes stream free movies from Netflix and watch them on one of my D* HD DVRs, because we have a $10/mo. Netflix account. The free movies are less than DVD quality.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Steve said:


> Broadcom announced a new CPU at CES that offers some similar capabilities to what was announced by Dish for the 922. I wonder if in fact the 922 isn't being built around this chip? DLNA compliance and RF capability that allows for a wireless exchange of data with the receiver. (The 922 can apparently wirelessly back-up timers inside the remote.)
> 
> Details on the BCM7420 can be found here.
> 
> If so, this chipset also offers MoCa support, which means it's possible the 922 may be able to support ethernet over coax at some point in the future as well.
> 
> That would leave only one question (though only _Honeymooners _fans might get it): "Can it core a apple?" :lol:
> 
> /steve


From Entropic's website.
_*With respect to new revenue streams in the MoCA home networking space, we see continued progress on new design wins with OEMs, technical field trials by operators, and a firming up of deployment timelines. We still expect two new tier one US service providers to deploy MoCA by mid-2009 with additional tier one service provider deployments in late 2009.

We believe the killer application for MoCA, multi room DVR is rapidly becoming a must have feature for consumers. According to a July survey by the research firm, Parks Associates, more than 10% of consumers would switch to a new TV provider to get multi room DVR functionality. This equates to over 10 million TV homes in the U.S. alone.*_ http://seekingalpha.com/article/103...-inc-q3-2008-earnings-call-transcript?page=-1

Maybe this is the reason that, only the ViP622/722/722k models are named and the ViP 211/612 are not included, in the list of supported models with the 922. Since the ViP622/722/722k models, can output/communicate Coax to another TV. Could be that the Coax plug will be used for something really useful? Instead of having to use a Home Network, you can use coax and not have to have a Home Network at all.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> ... Could be that the Coax plug will be used for something really useful? Instead of having to use a Home Network, you can use coax and not have to have a Home Network at all.


No, because of copy protection issue. The reason the 622/722s are included is because they have ethernet/broadband connection.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> No, because of copy protection issue. The reason the 622/722s are included is because they have ethernet/broadband connection.


You really need to learn how to read.
:nono::nono2: :nono::nono2:


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> You really need to learn how to read.
> :nono::nono2: :nono::nono2:


Coax in the form of the 622/722 TV2 will only be used for SD transmission, not HD, much like the web based transmission. When it comes to HD, copy protection is an issue no one can get past. E* had an coax solution for HD delivery called the 5000 modulator, I had two of them when they were made about 7 years ago, they only belong to a museum right now if they are lucky.

I don't care about SD, I told you we have all the SD streaming capability already, if this is what you are so excited about, that is fine. The TV2 SD will be as much as you can expect for the coax output of the 622/722.

As for ethernet over coax, more power to it, but it is not 622/722 TV2 you can be sure about that.


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> I read that too, the only thing added is the ability to download video from Sling.com, not surprising at all. There is no HD on Sling.com and I do not expect they will be able to get much real HD shows because for one thing, the content owners do not like to spread their content in *true HD* format around on the Internet, and even if they do, usually through a secured licensed carrier for HD PPV revenue.
> 
> DirecTV HD DVRs can already stream Youtube and many other online video services now which offer many similar shows like Sling.com, and no HD BTW, mostly lower than SD, that is why I did not take that particular part of press release seriously.
> 
> The most significant development will still be the ability for *true HD* streaming from a Sling HD box to the SlingCatcher, so one can watch *true HD* recorded on your 922 or 622/722 either on a home network or on the road.
> 
> We are not there yet according to the above report linked by DustoMan, but they are working toward that end.
> 
> BTW it does not use an "Internet tuner", it is simply a receiver capable of displaying web content, again as I said the DirecTV HD DVRs can do so already. For example I sometimes stream free movies from Netflix and watch them on one of my D* HD DVRs, because we have a $10/mo. Netflix account. The free movies are less than DVD quality.


You do realize that "True HD" is a marketing term and not a standard. 720p is HD and there are content providers (Hulu, ABC.com, and Netflix) that stream it. I'd be perfectly happy with that especially if it's free.


----------



## jacmyoung

DustoMan said:


> You do realize that "True HD" is a marketing term and not a standard. 720p is HD and there are content providers (Hulu, ABC.com, and Netflix) that stream it. I'd be perfectly happy with that especially if it's free.


I can use all three above with my DirecTV HR21s but has yet seen any 720p content, do you have examples of which shows are true 720p?

While 720p on a 1080p 50" screen still is visibly less appealing than a good 1080i or 1080p show, it qualifies as "true HD".


----------



## bobukcat

jacmyoung said:


> Coax in the form of the 622/722 TV2 will only be used for SD transmission, not HD, much like the web based transmission. When it comes to HD, copy protection is an issue no one can get past. E* had an coax solution for HD delivery called the 5000 modulator, I had two of them when they were made about 7 years ago, they only belong to a museum right now if they are lucky.
> 
> I don't care about SD, I told you we have all the SD streaming capability already, if this is what you are so excited about, that is fine. The TV2 SD will be as much as you can expect for the coax output of the 622/722.
> 
> As for ethernet over coax, more power to it, but it is not 622/722 TV2 you can be sure about that.


How do you know this?? There was plenty of news at CES about MoCa offering ETHERNET over coax, clearly that implies Ethernet (minimum 10Mbps) speeds which could be used to stream (not necessarily copy) HD content from one box to another. If it's only used for streaming the content providers don't have any argument against it.


----------



## GrumpyBear

bobukcat said:


> How do you know this?? There was plenty of news at CES about MoCa offering ETHERNET over coax, clearly that implies Ethernet (minimum 10Mbps) speeds which could be used to stream (not necessarily copy) HD content from one box to another. If it's only used for streaming the content providers don't have any argument against it.


Bob, You are expecting him to actually do reading.
http://broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=s358252&industry_id=1&source=home this one was from Steve.
Or this link as well.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/103557-entropic-communications-inc-q3-2008-earnings-call-transcript?page=-1
Both were supplied. Once you start reading about MoCa 1.1+, it starts to make you think, about how Home DVR can be done.

Granted just incase, here is the 1st lines
Broadcom Announces Industry's First MoCA® -Integrated SoC Solutions for High Definition Set-Top Box and Gateway Applications

Broadcom® Integrated MoCA 1.1+ Technology Significantly Reduces the Cost, Complexity and Power Requirements to Deploy Whole-Home Media Distribution. 
To satisfy this market demand, Broadcom announced two new HD multi-format video decoder SoCs with integrated MoCA at this week's International Consumer Electronics Show. 
The MoCA-integrated chips enable cable, satellite and IP-network equipment manufacturers worldwide to drive the next evolution of networking in the digital home by utilizing existing coax wire infrastructures.

And as Steve pointed out the New 922 uses the NEW chips that support this.
Granted you may want to read Steve's link the 1st one, 1st.


----------



## Steve

GrumpyBear said:


> And as Steve pointed out the New 922 uses the NEW chips that support this.
> Granted you may want to read Steve's link the 1st one, 1st.


Well, it's just speculation on my part that they're using that chip.  I'm guessing based on DLNA compatibility and wireless transfer to and from the remote, which happen to be features the chip and the 922 have in common.

If it is that chip, MoCA support wasn't mentioned in the 922 press release, but might be available down the road. /steve


----------



## GrumpyBear

Steve said:


> Well, it's just speculation on my part that they're using that chip.  I'm guessing based on DLNA compatibility and wireless transfer to and from the remote, which happen to be features the chip and the 922 have in common.
> 
> If it is that chip, MoCA support wasn't mentioned in the 922 press release, but might be available down the road. /steve


Now it wasn't, in the launch guide, all the said was ∑ Future upgrades such as photo sharing, movie ticket purchases, family calendars, instant messaging, streaming audio, and the _*ability to transfer content within a home network.*_ For lots of us, Home Networks will support this, but lots of others, just using a existing cabling would work, in a grand peer-peer scheme, using just the ViP 622/722/K, as machines will work makes you wonder too. Because if it was just Broadband support, than the ViP211/222/612 would be included as well, they all have ethernet ports too. Only feature missing is the coax support for 2nd TV support, for the ViP211/222/612

I think we need to start a new thread on, ideas, speculations and Hopes for the 922 and connectivity.


----------



## Ron Barry

Rob just passed this link on to me.. Looks to explain what the SlingGuide is about. Pretty sweet.

http://www.slingcommunity.com/article/32738/SlingGuide-Echostar-922s-Sling-Technology-Meets-DVR/


----------



## jacmyoung

bobukcat said:


> How do you know this?? There was plenty of news at CES about MoCa offering ETHERNET over coax, clearly that implies Ethernet (minimum 10Mbps) speeds which could be used to stream (not necessarily copy) HD content from one box to another. If it's only used for streaming the content providers don't have any argument against it.


You obviously did not understand what I said, MoCA is fine, coax can be used to deliver ethernet connections, but not the 622/722 TV2 coax output.

MoCA has nothing to do with the E* TV2 output, even though both contains the word "coax".


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> ...Because if it was just Broadband support, than the ViP211/222/612 would be included as well, they all have ethernet ports too.


That does not mean they have the capacity to do the streaming, it could simply be that to achieve the kind of future streaming results, a hard drive will be needed to provide buffer capacity and storing all the content, if nothing else, to sell content for extra revenue. Can't do so without saving them some where.



> Only feature missing is the coax support for 2nd TV support, for the ViP211/222/612...


If you actaully read me correctly, and understood what the coax TV2 was about, you would have not made such connection in the first place.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Not sure if this link has been posted, but g4 did a quick video.
http://www.g4tv.com/ces2009/videos/35956/CES_09_Hands_On_Echostar_VIP_922_Box.html
What caught my I was the Solo Pip light. YES!!!!!!! 
Granted it has the Dual light and lights for TV1 and TV2. 
DLB(QLB?) is alive and WELL.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> That does not mean they have the capacity to do the streaming, it could simply be that to achieve the kind of future streaming results, a hard drive will be needed to provide buffer capacity and storing all the content, if nothing else, to sell content for extra revenue. Can't do so without saving them some where.
> 
> If you actaully read me correctly, and understood what the coax TV2 was about, you would have not made such connection in the first place.


You do realize of Course that the ViP612 DOES have a harddrive and as well as Broadband. ViP211's Can have Harddrives and already have Broadband. Plus DLNA was talked about and included way back when with ViP622.
You say it should require minimum hardware, and forget the machines left out have the hardware you say is required.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> You do realize of Course that the ViP612 DOES have a harddrive and as well as Broadband. ViP211's Can have Harddrives and already have Broadband. Plus DLNA was talked about and included way back when with ViP622.
> You say it should require minimum hardware, and forget the machines left out have the hardware you say is required.


Do you now at least understand the TV2 coax has nothing to do with the "coax" mentioned in MoCA?

As for 612, who knows, maybe the chip set will not be able to handle the future streaming demand?


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> Do you now at least understand the TV2 coax has nothing to do with the "coax" mentioned in MoCA?
> 
> As for 612, who knows, maybe the chip set will not be able to handle the future streaming demand?


Neither of us know, for sure about the coax connection. I haven't said it would/could be used. ViP922 may or may not even support MoCA 1.1, it just has the proper technology to support Moca 1.1, to use a Coax FEED, to broadcast a HD signal over Coax, as well as the ViP 622/722 have the dlna tech built into them as well. So until you KNOW for sure, start reading to prove one way or another.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Neither of us know, for sure about the coax connection. I haven't said it would/could be used. ViP922 may or may not even support MoCA 1.1, it just has the proper technology to support Moca 1.1, to use a Coax FEED, to broadcast a HD signal over Coax, as well as the ViP 622/722 have the dlna tech built into them as well. So until you KNOW for sure, start reading to prove one way or another.


I have read what MoCA is, have you?

MoCA in its simplest form is an adaptor, on one end it connects to the coax outlet on the wall using a coax cable, on the other end it connects to the receiver's Ethernet port using a CAT5 cable, or whatever a paired cable, but not coax cable.

Now tell me where in that above picture the TV2 coax output comes in?


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> I have read what MoCA is, have you?
> 
> MoCA in its simplest form is an adaptor, on one end it connects to the coax outlet on the wall using a coax cable, on the other end it connects to the receiver's Ethernet port using a CAT5 cable, or whatever a paired cable, but not coax cable.
> 
> Now tell me where in that above picture the TV2 coax output comes in?


Ok, Please go back and read what you thought you read. I am trusting you are not trying to be obtuse, that you are really not understanding, MultiMedia over Coax Alliance and there current very open standard 1.1

Granted some of us remember the good ol days of having to run, coax cable 10base2 thin net, t-connectors, and proper termination, as that was the ONLY way to run Ethernet, Cat3 and Cat5 10base-T weren't even on the horizon. Oh and how about upgrading those good all ArcNet, or even having to install ArcNet, did I need a passive hub, or active hub, Hey Dan, what did you install over there? Double check those dip switchs while you are at it too. Oh and the good ol He/she Token Ring connectors(token Ring pissed me off then, like Kerbose Security does today). Oh real quick, anybody remember what thick ethernet was called? 10base5? those good ol Vampire taps so you could switch back over. My head hurts, my back hurts, and I can't find my snips. 
Man have we come a LONG way.


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> I can use all three above with my DirecTV HR21s but has yet seen any 720p content, do you have examples of which shows are true 720p?
> 
> While 720p on a 1080p 50" screen still is visibly less appealing than a good 1080i or 1080p show, it qualifies as "true HD".


Here's a list of channels and what resolution they broadcast:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=164671


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> ...My head hurts, my back hurts, and I can't find my snips.
> Man have we come a LONG way.


I know, I understand why you thought the fact the 922/722/622 have a TV2 output in the form of a coax terminal might have had something to do with them been possible MoCA candidates, but you are wrong. There is no such connection.


----------



## jacmyoung

DustoMan said:


> Here's a list of channels and what resolution they broadcast:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=164671


I will look into it, thank you.

Oh no, I have seen that list, it has nothing to do with the content the networks or Netflix/Hulu put up on their websites. The shows they put up on their websites for your live streaming are severely downrezzed from their HD origin.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> I know, I understand why you thought the fact the 922/722/622 have a TV2 output in the form of a coax terminal might have had something to do with them been possible MoCA candidates, but you are wrong. There is no such connection.


From the guy who thinks MoCA means to connect coax to utp. I will continue to check things out.


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> I will look into it, thank you.
> 
> Oh no, I have seen that list, it has nothing to do with the content the networks or Netflix/Hulu put up on their websites. The shows they put up on their websites for your live streaming are severely downrezzed from their HD origin.


Okay. That makes more sense. I was wondering why you were bringing up your DirecTV box if you were asking about resolutions on sites.

ABC.com it's 720p.
Netflix is 720p.
Not sure about Hulu, but I'm pretty sure their streaming HD content is 720p. I'm not familiar with others.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Not sure about Netflix or Hulu but most of the "big 4" networks stream at a maximum of 2.5M which would be constricted bandwidth for an HD stream.

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/complete_guide_to_watching_your_favorite_shows_online/D1/


----------



## jacmyoung

DustoMan said:


> Okay. That makes more sense. I was wondering why you were bringing up your DirecTV box if you were asking about resolutions on sites.
> 
> ABC.com it's 720p.
> Netflix is 720p.
> Not sure about Hulu, but I'm pretty sure their streaming HD content is 720p. I'm not familiar with others.


What I was trying to say was, and if you look at HobbyTalk's point too, the shows we can stream from ABC.com, Hulu and some others cannot be in true 720p HD format, if they are, you will not be able to watch them at the maximum 2.5mbps rate. They have to be first downrezzed before uploaded to their sites for your entertainment.


----------



## Daniel

OK, one thing that isn't clear to me. Will the 922 support all of the online video sources like Hulu and YouTube. And will it support Netflix downloads?

If both of those are true, I may just have to dump DirecTV.


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> What I was trying to say was, and if you look at HobbyTalk's point too, the shows we can stream from ABC.com, Hulu and some others cannot be in true 720p HD format, if they are, you will not be able to watch them at the maximum 2.5mbps rate. They have to be first downrezzed before uploaded to their sites for your entertainment.


There you go saying "true 720p HD format." What does that even mean? Are you talking about the amount of compression? Because every video signal is compressed to a certain degree... some better then others.


----------



## DustoMan

jacmyoung said:


> What I was trying to say was, and if you look at HobbyTalk's point too, the shows we can stream from ABC.com, Hulu and some others cannot be in true 720p HD format, if they are, you will not be able to watch them at the maximum 2.5mbps rate. They have to be first downrezzed before uploaded to their sites for your entertainment.


I went and looked it up on Netflix's blog. Their HD streams are VC-1 AP streams @ either 2.6 or 3.4 Mbps.

http://blog.netflix.com/2008/11/encoding-for-streaming.html


----------



## jacmyoung

DustoMan said:


> There you go saying "true 720p HD format." What does that even mean? Are you talking about the amount of compression? Because every video signal is compressed to a certain degree... some better then others.


Very good point, I was not accurate, should have said not only are they downrezzed but reformated to be something much less, for example, from 1280x720p to 640x360p, just to throw out a number, not mean it to be the right format.


----------



## HobbyTalk

jacmyoung said:


> What I was trying to say was, and if you look at HobbyTalk's point too, the shows we can stream from ABC.com, Hulu and some others cannot be in true 720p HD format, if they are, you will not be able to watch them at the maximum 2.5mbps rate. They have to be first downrezzed before uploaded to their sites for your entertainment.


That is not correct. Programming can be in 720p form and be streamed at 2.5M. The HD specs have *NO* specs in it on bandwidth. From my above link:

ABC encodes its content in 12 different profiles ranging from 164 kbps at 240 x 136 resolution up to 2000 kbps at *1280 x 720 and 24 frames-per-second *

That format is valid 720p HD.


----------



## SaltiDawg

HobbyTalk said:


> That is not correct. Programming can be in 720p form and be streamed at 2.5M. The HD specs have *NO* specs in it on bandwidth. From my above link:
> 
> ABC encodes its content in 12 different profiles ranging from 164 kbps at 240 x 136 resolution up to 2000 kbps at *1280 x 720 and 24 frames-per-second *
> 
> That format is valid 720p HD.


I understand and agree with everything you said here, *except* I don't understand the 24 fps part. Are you saying that ABC broadcasts at 24 fps?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Daniel said:


> OK, one thing that isn't clear to me. Will the 922 support all of the online video sources like Hulu and YouTube. And will it support Netflix downloads?
> 
> If both of those are true, I may just have to dump DirecTV.


The internet Tuner, and its supported features are going to be very interesting. At 1st I thought of the Internet Tuner as a Novelty, looks like it could be very very, useful.


----------



## Steve

GrumpyBear said:


> The internet Tuner, and its supported features are going to be very interesting. At 1st I thought of the Internet Tuner as a Novelty, looks like it could be very very, useful.


In case you missed, while not built-in to the HR2x, that capability is available now via HR2x media sharing with the PlayOn client. You can stream Netflix, Hulu, CBS and others. /steve


----------



## HobbyTalk

SaltiDawg said:


> I understand and agree with everything you said here, *except* I don't understand the 24 fps part. Are you saying that ABC broadcasts at 24 fps?


Don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## SaltiDawg

HobbyTalk said:


> Don't put words in my mouth.


Stupid reply.

You said, "1280 x 720 and 24 frames-per-second" and I said I didn't understand that part of your answer, while agreeing with the rest of your post.

Do you have an intelligent answer to the question? Are you suggesting that ABC sometimes xmits at 24 fps?


----------



## GrumpyBear

Steve said:


> In case you missed, while not built-in to the HR2x, that capability is available now via HR2x media sharing with the PlayOn client. You can stream Netflix, Hulu, CBS and others. /steve


I have read about it, and Personally I think MEDIA Sharing on the HRxx is one its best Features, and REALLY Cool. I don't mind the fact that, some of the stuff, has to run on a PC, I just wasn't that interested in Internet TV, and have used other solutions for a long time, so really didn't need it. I have a Xbox360, and a PC, in the Theater Cabinet, that does alot of what Media share does(I have kept a PC in the cabinet, since the pre Napster days), making it seamless, is still a plus, for the HR DVR. 
Internet Tuner, became exciting with a new NFL.com commerical, where REPLAY in 2009, will be happening on Sunday's after the games Ends. NOW I have something I want to watch via the internet, and in HD. Plus being able to Sling tuners is even better, for a traveling fool like me.


----------



## jacmyoung

HobbyTalk said:


> ...up to 2000 kbps at *1280 x 720 and 24 frames-per-second *
> 
> That format is valid 720p HD.


Now I am not even saying there is no possibility to deliver a 720p HD show at 2.5M streaming speed, maybe there is some advanced compression algorithm that can do it, I am all for it, but no one has yet shown me any evidence of it.

If a show on the site is presented at true 720p HD, you should easily see them touting such accomplishment for example by labeling such show with an "HD" sign.

Maybe the key here is 24fps, that may get it to fit the 2M pipeline.


----------



## jacmyoung

SaltiDawg said:


> Stupid reply.
> 
> You said, "1280 x 720 and 24 frames-per-second" and I said I didn't understand that part of your answer, while agreeing with the rest of your post.
> 
> Do you have an intelligent answer to the question? Are you suggesting that ABC sometimes xmits at 24 fps?


While PC monitors should be able to display 1280x720p/24, I don't know if there are any HDTV sets that can accept a native 1280x720p/24 signal, but the receiver with proper decoding software should be able to convert the format to 1280x720p/60, 1920x1080i/60 or 1920x1080p/60.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> Now I am not even saying there is no possibility to deliver a 720p HD show at 2.5M streaming speed, maybe there is some advanced compression algorithm that can do it, I am all for it, but no one has yet shown me any evidence of it.
> 
> If a show on the site is presented at true 720p HD, you should easily see them touting such accomplishment for example by labeling such show with an "HD" sign.
> 
> Maybe the key here is 24fps, that may get it to fit the 2M pipeline.


Here you go.
NFLHD
and lets not forget Netflix and its Branded HD Titles, for starters.


----------



## HobbyTalk

SaltiDawg said:


> Stupid reply.
> 
> You said, "1280 x 720 and 24 frames-per-second" and I said I didn't understand that part of your answer, while agreeing with the rest of your post.
> 
> Do you have an intelligent answer to the question? Are you suggesting that ABC sometimes xmits at 24 fps?


Your reply is even stupider. You asked



> Are you saying that ABC broadcasts at 24 fps?


I never said that. Did you even read the link I provided?

Yoiu are totally confused. You said that there is no "true HD" (whatever THAT is, guess that is something you made up in your little mind) being used on the Internet for TV or movies. I just pointed an article that does indeed show that some networks are using HD standards to stream shows to Internet viewers.

Here are Fox shows marked as HD as an example - http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=house


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Here you go.
> NFLHD
> and lets not forget Netflix and its Branded HD Titles, for starters.


I poked around a little, the picture quality of the NFL "HD" game demo was so bad I hope it is an anomaly.

If Netflix actually has HD titles for streaming, I will check it out myself, last time I did not see any.


----------



## jacmyoung

HobbyTalk said:


> ...Here are Fox shows marked as HD as an example - http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=house


The HD quality is quite good on my laptop but need to display it on a large screen HD set to compare, anyone had the capability to display it on a large screen HD set yet?


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> I poked around a little, the picture quality of the NFL "HD" game demo was so bad I hope it is an anomaly.
> 
> If Netflix actually has HD titles for streaming, I will check it out myself, last time I did not see any.


Sorry your laptop wasn't able to show you a Branded HD Streaming Site. Something you were sure wasn't out there.
If you are a NetFlix Person and haven't noticed its HD Streaming, you haven't been there for the last 2 months.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> Sorry your laptop wasn't able to show you a Branded HD Streaming Site. Something you were sure wasn't out there.
> If you are a NetFlix Person and haven't noticed its HD Streaming, you haven't been there for the last 2 months.


No I had full access of the NFL site and any other sites, only that the NFL HD demo was crap.

I didn't say I was sure, I asked for proof, you provided one that showed a very bad demo, HobbyTalk on the other hand linked the FOX site which had a much better HD show I tested.

I will find a way to get it on my 50' 1080p screen, that will be a true test.


----------



## SaltiDawg

HobbyTalk said:


> Yoiu are totally confused. You said that there is no "true HD" (whatever THAT is, guess that is something you made up in your little mind) being used on the Internet for TV or movies. ...


I never made any such comment. You obviously have me confused with someone that cares what you have to say. 

I tried to ask a simple question and got no answer - asked whether you were saying ABC xmited at 24 FPS *OTA*? 

Bye.


----------



## jacmyoung

SaltiDawg said:


> I never made any such comment. You obviously have me confused with someone that cares what you have to say.
> 
> I tried to ask a simple question and got no answer - asked whether you were saying ABC xmited at 24 FPS *OTA*?
> 
> Bye.


No he was saying ABC claims they have 1280x720p/24 for their web based content intended for viewing on the computers.

BTW I still could not find any HD content using Playon and my D* HD DVRs, the only services I could see were still the same: Netflix, Hulu, CBS, CNN, ESPN, and none has HD content, maybe HD content is just not available through the Playon/HR2x service.


----------



## SaltiDawg

jacmyoung said:


> No he was saying ABC claims they have 1280x720p/24 for their web based content intended for viewing on the computers.
> 
> BTW I still could not find any HD content using Playon and my D* HD DVRs, the only services I could see were still the same: Netflix, Hulu, CBS, CNN, ESPN, and none has HD content, maybe HD content is just not available through the Playon/HR2x service.


Thanks for the reply. *Some* of the Netflix content streamed to my Xbox 360 is billed as HD, and in the movie that I watched that was so advertised I could see it was better than 480P. Next time, I'll see what the resolution is.

Again, thanks for the reply. I truly misunderstood.


----------



## deputyjim

I watched the video posted earlier in the thread, and I heard the spokesman say, "this is alpha," which tells me the 922 still has a bit of testing to be accomplished before it is available. Although I know nothing about Dish internal software testing, I'd imagine 6-8 weeks at alpha, perhaps 4-6 weeks at beta, and another 3-4 weeks to go gold and upload the hardware. At 14 weeks away, it sounds like very late May, perhaps early June. So I guess technically, it still would be spring. In any event, I'm looking forward to it. With a terabyte drive, does that make it the largest-capacity DVR to date? Thanks for any responses.

Jim


----------



## GrumpyBear

deputyjim said:


> I watched the video posted earlier in the thread, and I heard the spokesman say, "this is alpha," which tells me the 922 still has a bit of testing to be accomplished before it is available. Although I know nothing about Dish internal software testing, I'd imagine 6-8 weeks at alpha, perhaps 4-6 weeks at beta, and another 3-4 weeks to go gold and upload the hardware. At 14 weeks away, it sounds like very late May, perhaps early June. So I guess technically, it still would be spring. In any event, I'm looking forward to it. With a terabyte drive, does that make it the largest-capacity DVR to date? Thanks for any responses.
> 
> Jim


Well it does have 1TB, but only 500GB's are availible to the user. Still more then what anybody else has built in. I hope the 922 will support 1TB external drives for archiving of movies and shows.


----------



## HobbyTalk

SaltiDawg said:


> I never made any such comment. You obviously have me confused with someone that cares what you have to say.
> 
> I tried to ask a simple question and got no answer - asked whether you were saying ABC xmited at 24 FPS *OTA*?
> 
> Bye.


I wasn't replying to you. Please keep up


----------



## jacmyoung

SaltiDawg said:


> Thanks for the reply. *Some* of the Netflix content streamed to my Xbox 360 is billed as HD, and in the movie that I watched that was so advertised I could see it was better than 480P. Next time, I'll see what the resolution is.
> 
> Again, thanks for the reply. I truly misunderstood.


You just confirmed my suspicion that it has a lot to do with the Playon/HR2x service, the Xbox360, Ruko (?), PS3, TiVo HD DVR and some others should have HD content to stream from, but not the HR2x, certainly not the 622/772 yet.

Now the FOX HD webcast HobbyTalk linked for us did have a much better PQ on my laptop compared to the NFL HD site, but I later watched the FOX HD show more carefully, I can say this, even the FOX HD online show is highly compressed, while still moments were fine, it was hard to watch anything in motion, severe motion artifacts.

If I can display it on a 50" screen, one can only imagine how bad it may look, in fact I will not be surprised the PQ may make those old highly compressed E* and D* MPEG2 HD shows look like pristine HD materials.


----------



## James Long

:backtotop --- the Slingloaded HD 922 DVR ---
(not each other)


----------



## jbaer15

the only reason the K is next to the 722 and 222 is because they want to show a difference btwn the 222 and 222k and 722 and 722k is optional OTA mod....since there is not another 922, no need for the K.


----------



## klegg

GrumpyBear said:


> Well it does have 1TB, but only 500GB's are availible to the user. Still more then what anybody else has built in. I hope the 922 will support 1TB external drives for archiving of movies and shows.


I'm using a 1TB drive on my 622. Not sure about the 922, but I'd think it would work with those as well...


----------



## jacmyoung

klegg said:


> I'm using a 1TB drive on my 622. Not sure about the 922, but I'd think it would work with those as well...


Leslie Harper (?) from E* already confirmed it at CES.


----------



## GrumpyBear

klegg said:


> I'm using a 1TB drive on my 622. Not sure about the 922, but I'd think it would work with those as well...


Oh, I have no doubts about a 1TB drive for Archive will work. Its just that "Offical" thing in writing. 500GB-750GB is offical, just looking for that "most" 500-1or2TB will work, for the external archive drive.


----------



## HobbyTalk

jacmyoung said:


> I will find a way to get it on my 50' 1080p screen, that will be a true test.


It really doens't matter matter what you think it looks like. If it is a format that is covered in the HD specs, it is HD.


----------



## SaltiDawg

jacmyoung said:


> You just confirmed my suspicion that it has a lot to do with the Playon/HR2x service, the Xbox360, Ruko (?), PS3, TiVo HD DVR and some others should have HD content to stream from, but not the HR2x, certainly not the 622/772 yet. ...


I watched a few minutes of a Netflix "HD" movie last night on my Xbox 360. It was a film about some guy that puts his whole life into playing an arcade game.:hurah:

My 1080p panel was being fed a "1920 X 1080 60Hz" signal by the Xbox. I was 100% satisfied with the image and audio quality.

EDIT: Movie Title was "The King of Kong."

I'll try to take a look at another flick today and confirm that they also xmit 480p viewings.


----------



## jadebox

GrumpyBear said:


> Well it does have 1TB, but only 500GB's are availible to the user. Still more then what anybody else has built in. I hope the 922 will support 1TB external drives for archiving of movies and shows.


I'm using a 1TB external with my 622, so they should work with the 922.

EDIT: I need to learn to read ahead before replying. 

-- Roger


----------



## Steve

SaltiDawg said:


> My 1080p panel was being fed a "1920 X 1080 60Hz" signal by the Xbox. I was 100% satisfied with the image and audio quality.


Good that you were happy with what you saw, but as you know, that won't always be the case. Transmitted resolution is by no means a guarantee of picture quality. You can deliver Mexican water in a crystal decanter, but in the end, it's still Mexican water.  /steve


----------



## SaltiDawg

Steve said:


> Good that you were happy with what you saw, but as you know, that won't always be the case. Transmitted resolution is by no means a guarantee of picture quality. You can deliver Mexican water in a crystal decanter, but in the end, it's still Mexican water.  /steve


Not sure I understand the analogy, but I was making an observation about the quality for *one* movie - I even went back and edited to include the name of the flick.

I had a Netflix video a week or two ago that was totally unviewable - and indeed, when Netflix tested the connection prior to my viewing it, it predicted poor quality. Viewed the next day, that video was just fine. I do not know if it was a Netflix problem, www problem, or my Wifi net.

I don't mean to sound like a Netflix Fanboy, but no amount of discussion would convince me that my viewing of that *one*movie, *last night*, was 100% satisfactory to *my viewing standards.* Obviously, YMMV.

EDIT: I only have three movies in my Netflix Instant Viewing queue. I checked, and the resolution my panel is receiving for all three of them is 1920 X 1080 60Hz. I believe that *some* of the viewings are at 480p - I'll continue checking after I add a few more instant viewing choices.

EDIT II: Uh oh. I just realized that I assume my (new) Xbox 360 required that I specify an output resolution. So *everything* outputted would be in that resolution, independent of the received or input resolution. I'll get back. 

EDIT III: I found that I have my Xbox 360 set to output *everything* at 1080p 60Hz. I do stand on my observation about some (at least) Netflix live being advertised as "HD" and at least sometimes the movies seem to be of a higher quality than 480p. Sorry for any confusion I may have contributed.


----------



## GrumpyBear

None of this has Anything to do with the SlingloadedHD 922. Without help from beta middleware PlayON, to a Media center plug in the Direct has stopped developing, the ViP922 will be have its own Internet Tuner, and looks like the ViP922 will have a Media Center plug in as well. Granted I use my Xbox360 as it works, with all the PC's in the house Flawlessly, and with NetFlix it gives you a cool little HD logo when the movie is HD, vs's when its not in HD.


----------



## Steve

SaltiDawg said:


> Not sure I understand the analogy, but I was making an observation about the quality for *one* movie - I even went back and edited to include the name of the flick.


Wasn't saying you didn't see great picture quality at all! Sorry if it came across that way.

I was just pointing out that the broadcast resolution is not necessarily an indicator of picture quality. If the source material isn't great to begin with, transmitting it at 1080p instead of a lower resolution isn't going to make it look any better. Hence my attempt at an analogy. Lousy tasting water will still taste lousy, no matter how fancy a bottle you put it in.


GrumpyBear said:


> None of this has Anything to do with the SlingloadedHD 922.


It kind of does, in the reverse sense. Just because something may not be "technically" at full HD resolution, if it's high quality material processed properly (by Sling software), it can look pretty darned good at normal viewing distances, even at lower resolution. An example would be Sony "superbit" 480p DVD's. From a normal 8'-10' viewing distance, the _Spiderman _DVDs look superb on my 50" 768p Fujitsu plasma.

/steve


----------



## jacmyoung

SaltiDawg said:


> I watched a few minutes of a Netflix "HD" movie last night on my Xbox 360. It was a film about some guy that puts his whole life into playing an arcade game.:hurah:
> 
> My 1080p panel was being fed a "1920 X 1080 60Hz" signal by the Xbox. I was 100% satisfied with the image and audio quality.
> 
> EDIT: Movie Title was "The King of Kong."
> 
> I'll try to take a look at another flick today and confirm that they also xmit 480p viewings.


Did you compare it to the other HD movies on E* or whatever the sevice you have to conclude it was good HD PQ and sound?


----------



## SaltiDawg

jacmyoung said:


> Did you compare it to the other HD movies on E* or whatever the sevice you have to conclude it was good HD PQ and sound?


Yes. That would be the only standard that any of us could subjectively apply I would think.

Because of my age and background (Retired Navy Submariner) I suspect I'm not overly discriminating with respect to audio. :lol:

I suspect that I am a decent source of *opinions* about video quality on my TV. I have a 60" Pioneer Elite Kuro TV, and generally use a PS3 BD player for viewing BDs and DVD's. My audio and video equipment have been ISF Calibrated by Jeff Meire of AccuCal.


----------



## jacmyoung

SaltiDawg said:


> Yes. That would be the only standard that any of us could subjectively apply I would think.
> 
> Because of my age and background (Retired Navy Submariner) I suspect I'm not overly discriminating with respect to audio. :lol:
> 
> I suspect that I am a decent source of *opinions* about video quality on my TV. I have a 60" Pioneer Elite Kuro TV, and generally use a PS3 BD player for viewing BDs and DVD's. My audio and video equipment have been ISF Calibrated by Jeff Meire of AccuCal.


I will stop asking for your opinion on the sound then


----------



## SaltiDawg

jacmyoung said:


> I will stop asking for your opinion on the sound then


Now you sound like my wife. :lol:


----------



## jacmyoung

SaltiDawg said:


> Now you sound like my wife. :lol:


Now my wife sounds like your wife

Anyway, this much is known, that true HD streaming is right now. Very good, but keep in mind, we are only talking about utilizing people's download speed, which for many of us we have the speed.

Streaming true HD from our HD DVR to a remote location will be a whole different story. Now the upload speed is the key.


----------



## jacmyoung

An update on the Playon service, since I had concluded Netflix has no HD "play instently" for PC use, and I could not get any HD shows to stream on my Playon/D* HR2Xs, I never paid much attention to those shows.

Until last night I had a chance to watch "Oceans Thirteen" and realized Playon does not even stream the shows from Netflix at even the Netflix's online resolutions. This movie was played on my PC in its OAR with ok resolution, but on my HR21 it was a streched-to-fill-the-screen big mess, even though the output was in 1080i.

Definitely not ready for primetime. Goes to prove just because the online service has HD content for PC viewing, does not mean you can stream online and watch it on your HD set at the same HD quality, on your PC yes, not on the TV.

I still hope Sling will make their Slingcatcher do 1920x1080 soon.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> An update on the Playon service, since I had concluded Netflix has no HD "play instently" for PC use, and I could not get any HD shows to stream on my Playon/D* HR2Xs, I never paid much attention to those shows.
> 
> Until last night I had a chance to watch "Oceans Thirteen" and realized Playon does not even stream the shows from Netflix at even the Netflix's online resolutions. This movie was played on my PC in its OAR with ok resolution, but on my HR21 it was a streched-to-fill-the-screen big mess, even though the output was in 1080i.
> 
> Definitely not ready for primetime. Goes to prove just because the online service has HD content for PC viewing, does not mean you can stream online and watch it on your HD set at the same HD quality, on your PC yes, not on the TV.
> 
> I still hope Sling will make their Slingcatcher do 1920x1080 soon.


No what you mean is there are to many limitations between Beta software Playon, and your HRxx, and then to your TV. Other Services, like Xbox360 will recieve the exact same HD stream and are able to watch the HD Movie or even HD TVShow in HD on your TV. What will be nice with the 922 is the Internet Tuner will be built in(kind of like the Xbox360 and other machines too), instead of some 3rd party middleware software, that doesn't even run on the 922. What you need to do is look at machines that already have Better Internet Streaming, like the Xbox360, SamsungBD-2500 series, LG300's and PS3(no NetFlix yet). You need to compare the functions of Devices that can already work with HD STREAMING. and move away from a unsupported 3rd party work around.


----------



## jacmyoung

GrumpyBear said:


> No what you mean is there are to many limitations between Beta software Playon, and your HRxx, and then to your TV. Other Services, like Xbox360 will recieve the exact same HD stream and are able to watch the HD Movie or even HD TVShow in HD on your TV. What will be nice with the 922 is the Internet Tuner will be built in(kind of like the Xbox360 and other machines too), instead of some 3rd party middleware software, that doesn't even run on the 922. What you need to do is look at machines that already have Better Internet Streaming, like the Xbox360, SamsungBD-2500 series, LG300's and PS3(no NetFlix yet). You need to compare the functions of Devices that can already work with HD STREAMING. and move away from a unsupported 3rd party work around.


There is nothing special about an "Internet tuner", therefore nothing about such tuner in 922 will be special, even if it is true.

All HD receivers (DVR or not) must be able to decode all 18 standard digital broadcast formats, and either pass them through in their native forms, or convert them to a form that can be displayed on your paticular TV set.

I believe any HD receiver that has broadband connection should be able to download HD content using the connection and display them, no different than receiving digital data from OTA, satallite, or cable.

The Xbox360 and TiVo HD DVR alike simply have enabled such capability, and the DirecTV HR2Xs have not done so. But HR2X with the CE program can now have its "media center" function, at is why it can detect Playon on my PC because my PC is networked with all my HR2Xs.

What I am saying is, the DirecTV H2Xs, the HR2Xs, and the future E* 922 can do what Xbox360 can do, in fact the 622/722/211... should all be able to the same, the only question is whether the company will update the firmware to enable such functions.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> There is nothing special about an "Internet tuner", therefore nothing about such tuner in 922 will be special, even if it is true.
> 
> All HD receivers (DVR or not) must be able to decode all 18 standard digital broadcast formats, and either pass them through in their native forms, or convert them to a form that can be displayed on your paticular TV set.
> 
> I believe any HD receiver that has broadband connection should be able to download HD content using the connection and display them, no different than receiving digital data from OTA, satallite, or cable.
> 
> The Xbox360 and TiVo HD DVR alike simply have enabled such capability, and the DirecTV HR2Xs have not done so. But HR2X with the CE program can now have its "media center" function, at is why it can detect Playon on my PC because my PC is networked with all my HR2Xs.
> 
> What I am saying is, the DirecTV H2Xs, the HR2Xs, and the future E* 922 can do what Xbox360 can do, in fact the 622/722/211... should all be able to the same, the only question is whether the company will update the firmware to enable such functions.


If there was nothing "Special" about an Internet Tuner, everybody would already have it. Nobody else talks about it, some do have a software and connectors that will allow you to access movie sites. HR2x Media Center program is now defunked, may revive, but it doesn't look like it, even so it wasn't a *Internet Tuner*, it was a connection to Microsoft's Media Center, nothing more than that, and Playon is still beta software.

As you clearly Pointed out,(_*Definitely not ready for primetime. Goes to prove just because the online service has HD content for PC viewing, does not mean you can stream online and watch it on your HD set at the same HD quality, on your PC yes, not on the TV.)*_ and the reason for my response, was to point out, you Forgot, about the XBOX360, Several Blu-Ray players(all BD-Live versions) and the HD TIVO unit, out there that can process a onlineHD Stream, and let you watch it on the TV RIGHT NOW.

So where we don't know all about the 922 Internet Tuner, and we have to wait, the closest thing would be Tivo's with Amazon, NetFlix, Disney. Even Tivo one wont let browse a site like Youtube(Yuck)or NFL Replay(COOL) and other sites. Just gives you access to your account, and you have to do all the setup and stock your Q from your PC.

So just because a beta and unsupported software solution, connecting to a now unsupported not currently being developed connector, wont let you view HD streaming through your HRxx to your tv, doesn't mean that HD Streaming to your TV Doesn't work. HD STREAMING DOES WORK, you just need the right stuff, so forget Beta software, REMOVE Media Center from the Picture. Compare the Internet Tuner, by the bare minimum by what, Xbox360, TivoHD DVR, and some Blu-ray Players can do now, and it should do lots more, to improve on things, so here is to hoping the Internet Tuner will improve on all of the above.


----------



## jacmyoung

Both the E* VIP622/722s and D* HR2Xs can do what you and I are talking about now, it is called VOD. They do so using their broadband connections. When I select an HD VOD movie from my HR21 for example, I can play it right the way, as long as my broadband download speed, and the D* upload speed are sufficient, if not, the show has to be buffered onto the hard drive first.

The Xbox360, Ruko boxes etc do the exact same thing, the only difference is the Xbox and the Roku boxes stream their HD movies from the Netflix online library, the VIPs stream from E*'s own online library, and the HRs stream from D*'s own online library.

Again all advanced receivers today with broadband capability can already stream HD online. Maybe you are trying to explain something new, if so it is not the thing we have been discussing.

What I have been saying is, the E* and D* HD DVRs so far are not able to stream from a third party online HD library yet. But if they later work out some agreement with a third party vendor like Netflix, or ABC, FOX..., they can do so easily, just like what the Xbox360s and the Rukos are doing now.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> Both the E* VIP622/722s and D* HR2Xs can do what you and I are talking about now, it is called VOD. They do so using their broadband connections. When I select an HD VOD movie from my HR21 for example, I can play it right the way, as long as my broadband download speed, and the D* upload speed are sufficient, if not, the show has to be buffered onto the hard drive first.
> 
> The Xbox360, Ruko boxes etc do the exact same thing, the only difference is the Xbox and the Roku boxes stream their HD movies from the Netflix online library, the VIPs stream from E*'s own online library, and the HRs stream from D*'s own online library.
> 
> Again all advanced receivers today with broadband capability can already stream HD online. Maybe you are trying to explain something new, if so it is not the thing we have been discussing.
> 
> What I have been saying is, the E* and D* HD DVRs so far are not able to stream from a third party online HD library yet. But if they later work out some agreement with a third party vendor like Netflix, or ABC, FOX..., they can do so easily, just like what the Xbox360s and the Rukos are doing now.


Your comment *jacmyoung: Definitely not ready for primetime. Goes to prove just because the online service has HD content for PC viewing, does not mean you can stream online and watch it on your HD set at the same HD quality, on your PC yes, not on the TV.*

HD streaming works, it is ready for Primetime, with the proper equipment. VOD is similar,(still only access to a proprietary system) to Netflix style video Libraries. So when you make a conclusion that HD Streaming from Internet sites doesn't work, because you have the wrong equipment, doesn't mean it doesn't work just fine.

What is different with the 922SlingDVR, is a INTERNET TUNER, where you don't think its special, it is Special, one of the Reason's no DVR has it yet. It will(hopefully) do more than just access, video libraries from the big video sites, which can be handled by corp agreements, and you have to be a paying member to have access to it. Being able to access any website and have access to that sites online Video's, will be very very very nice. NFLHD, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, just for starters.
Also 
*jacmyoung:All HD receivers (DVR or not) must be able to decode all 18 standard digital broadcast formats, and either pass them through in their native forms, or convert them to a form that can be displayed on your paticular TV set.* has absolutly nothing to do with Streaming HD Internet video.
You may want to ask all those that had to buy a AM21, about broadcast formats.

I know you have tried really hard to recreate, viewing on your HDTV, like your PC, the tools just aren't there yet. So you just need to except HD Internet Streaming to your HDTV works, just not through your HD-DVR. Use the right equipment.


----------



## James Long

The 922 is the closest thing so far. One can always find some reason to put down any new equipment. Perhaps we should focus on what the 922 *CAN* do instead of the wishlist of things that one may want it to do.

We can have the wishlist once it is released.


----------



## jacmyoung

James Long said:


> The 922 is the closest thing so far. One can always find some reason to put down any new equipment. Perhaps we should focus on what the 922 *CAN* do instead of the wishlist of things that one may want it to do.
> 
> We can have the wishlist once it is released.


I don't think I was trying to put down 922, if it came out that way I am sorry.

The initial point I was making was the Slingcatcher was the closet thing to allow HD streaming from your home HD DVR to a remote location, the capability is there, just that Sling has not implemented the HD streaming yet, now we know they are working on having 1280x540 I think, then ultimately 1920x1080.

But for now only 640x480, to the remote location that is.

Then GrumpyBear started talking streaming HD from a remote online site back into the HD DVR, an entirely different thing than the above. For this new discussion I explained my experience with the D* HD DVR not able to do HD streaming from the third party sites like Netflix, ABC or FOX, but at least D* HD DVR with the CE program can stream some low quality shows with Playon.

Currently no E* receivers can stream from any of those same common sites at all, such as Hulu, CBS, CNN, Netflix, Youtube.

But all DBS advanced HD DVRs can already stream true HD because their HD VOD works, including the VIP622/722s, the HR2Xs.

What is unique about the upcoming 922 is that since it is HD Sling built in, potentially it can stream its own recorded HD shows out to a remote location in true HD resolutions, that is what I am really interested in, I really do not care so much about streaming remote online content back into the receiver, but the other way around. And this is where the 922 will shine, especially if Sling can get the Slingcatcher to do HD soon.

And when that time comes, how fast is your home broadband upload speed will be very critical. I think you need about 10M upload speed to be on the safe side to do true HD streaming out.


----------



## HobbyTalk

What is "true" HD? Never seen that term in any HD spec.


----------



## jacmyoung

HobbyTalk said:


> What is "true" HD? Never seen that term in any HD spec.


In my book "true HD" is when you watch it on a 50" 1080p screen, it looks as good as when you watch a good 1080i MPEG4 E* or D* HD show. It has nothing to do with HD specs, just my way of expressing what kind of PQ I want to see when *streaming from an HD DVR at home to a remote location*, such as a hotel room, if sufficient broadband speeds are available both at home and at the hotel room.

If you don't like such term I am using, you are welcome to suggest one for me It is not critical what term I use, as long as you can understand what I am trying to say.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> I don't think I was trying to put down 922, if it came out that way I am sorry.
> 
> The initial point I was making was the Slingcatcher was the closet thing to allow HD streaming from your home HD DVR to a remote location, the capability is there, just that Sling has not implemented the HD streaming yet, now we know they are working on having 1280x540 I think, then ultimately 1920x1080.
> 
> But for now only 640x480, to the remote location that is.
> 
> Then GrumpyBear started talking streaming HD from a remote online site back into the HD DVR, an entirely different thing than the above. For this new discussion I explained my experience with the D* HD DVR not able to do HD streaming from the third party sites like Netflix, ABC or FOX, but at least D* HD DVR with the CE program can stream some low quality shows with Playon.
> 
> Currently no E* receivers can stream from any of those same common sites at all, such as Hulu, CBS, CNN, Netflix, Youtube.
> 
> But all DBS advanced HD DVRs can already stream true HD because their HD VOD works, including the VIP622/722s, the HR2Xs.
> 
> What is unique about the upcoming 922 is that since it is HD Sling built in, potentially it can stream its own recorded HD shows out to a remote location in true HD resolutions, that is what I am really interested in, I really do not care so much about streaming remote online content back into the receiver, but the other way around. And this is where the 922 will shine, especially if Sling can get the Slingcatcher to do HD soon.
> 
> And when that time comes, how fast is your home broadband upload speed will be very critical. I think you need about 10M upload speed to be on the safe side to do true HD streaming out.


GO BACK AND READ. You are such a MOVING target.
PLEASE GO BACK AND READ. What was being discussed was HD STREAMING WORKS! PERIOD. NOT TO A DVR, nobody does it(yet). Using beta software, with a 3rd party connector wont do HD STREAMING to your HD-DVR and then to your HD TV. YOU need hardware that supports Streaming. 
So no matter how you phrase it, reword it, retool your brain, only thing be discussed is HD STREAMING from a Internet site to your TV will work. HD STREAMING is NOT limited to Streaming to a PC. Use a Xbox360, TivoHD, Certain Blu-Ray players, and you can STREAM HD to your HD TV.

As a reminder your comment *jacmyoung: Definitely not ready for primetime. Goes to prove just because the online service has HD content for PC viewing, does not mean you can stream online and watch it on your HD set at the same HD quality, on your PC yes, not on the TV.*
That was your comment after trying a movie from Netflix. So please keep it together here.


----------



## HobbyTalk

I would think that most people would take "true" HD as the HD that comes off of a BD as minimum or maybe even as low as what you would see on a full bandwidth OTA channel. Many people call what the cable companies, E* and D* put out is HDlite.

What you would find as acceptable HD may or may not be acceptable to others. It is subjective thus should not be called "true" HD, maybe "acceptable to me HD" would be better.


----------



## GrumpyBear

HobbyTalk said:


> I would think that most people would take "true" HD as the HD that comes off of a BD as minimum or maybe even as low as what you would see on a full bandwidth OTA channel. Many people call what the cable companies, E* and D* put out is HDlite.
> 
> What you would find as acceptable HD may or may not be acceptable to others. It is subjective thus should not be called "true" HD, maybe "acceptable to me HD" would be better.


"Acceptable to me HD" now that is a really cool term. Makes a vague term even more debatable.
:lol::lol:


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## HobbyTalk

But true considering that about 15% of people (by the latest studies) that have HD TVs are watching SD and think it is HD


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## James Long

jacmyoung said:


> It is not critical what term I use, as long as you can understand what I am trying to say.


You have an arbitrary subjective measure of quality that will vary depending on observer and monitor. In my opinion that is better than picking some arbitrary number of pixels or bitrate to draw the line between HD and not. Over the years I have seen a lot of definitions of HD ... not all of them require 1920x1080 or 1280x720 frames or high bitrates. (And the "lower HD" definitions ARE standards accepted as HD by the ATSC organization.)

"Satellite quality" HD varies between providers ... fortunately this is a DISH product so a perfect pass through is less bits to pass on the network. I do not expect a perfect "bit by bit" pass through ... there will be some compression/downresolution to make sure the picture is as clear and clean as possible. Sounds like an oxymoron but we're talking homes and consumer equipment for consumer viewing - not a broadcast TV plant. If you want "professional grade" equipment expect to pay a lot more than you will ever pay for a SlingBox or 922.

Other than that thought, let's see what this puppy _*can*_ do.


----------



## Steve

James Long said:


> Other than that thought, let's see what this puppy _*can*_ do.


Big +1. I'm not sure how this discussion got so far afield. Read the press release in post #3. There is no promise of HD slinging of one's playlist... period. In fact, conspicuous by it's absence in the press release is even any mention of the concept of MRV via Sling technology, which indicates to me they are not even planning on HD transmission over the LAN at this time, no less the WAN.

Getting back to what we do know about the product, anyone have any more detail on what exactly can be stored inside the remote, besides timers?

/steve


----------



## jacmyoung

I have no problem with what Hobbytalk and James are saying, and never tried to insist an arbitrary standard to fit my own "true HD" definition. The only thing Hobbytalk may have problem is that my "true HD" reference is confusing, so I asked what you would use to describe the following:

Provide the capability to stream the HD recordings on my HD DVR to a remote location, so that when displayed on a similar 50" 1080p flat panel, it retains the same HD PQ as at home, whatever you think is good enough for you, just be able to "duplicate" the same experience, that is all. Not so different that what James you are saying.

Now you ask us to wait to find out, my point was we do not need to wait, we already know through this discussion, that is why this discussion is very helpful IMHO, because now we know:

1) Sling cannot do "true HD" viewing of your HD DVR at a remote location yet, only 640X480p at this point, but they are working to get to 1280X540p, and said ultimately will reach 1920X1080p. So we know the capability of the Slgincatcher is there, just takes time to implement.

2) A 1.5M maximum upload capacity from your home broadband service is not going to meet the above "standard", it is likely 10M upload is a safe bet.

3) We already know all advanced HD DVRs (E* or D*) can "stream true HD" content, only that for now they are limited to "stream" from their own online HD VOD libraries. It will likely take some agreement before they can do so from Netflix, ABC, CBS, FOX and many other such libraries. The limitation is not technical, rather contractual.

Now with what said, I don't think one can say our discussion did not yield any fruits, it certainly did. Maybe it is not to your interest Steve, but apparently it is to the interest of others, including those who provided the above information and helped me to answer such questions.

What the above have to do with the 922? Because 922 will have the HD Sling built in, and may be the first to allow all the above to happen before any other HD DVRs. The only question is how soon? or ever? It is a question E* must answer, maybe very soon after the 922 is released, maybe a year from now or maybe not in the near future at all. I hope for the first answer.


----------



## SaltiDawg

jacmyoung said:


> Provide the capability to stream the HD recordings on my HD DVR to a remote location, so that when displayed on a similar 50" 1080p flat panel, it retains the same HD PQ as at home, whatever you think is good enough for you, just be able to "duplicate" the same experience, that is all. ...


So you want _no *noticeable* degradation of image quality at the remote viewing location. _ Seems a worthy desire.


----------



## GrumpyBear

jacmyoung said:


> I have no problem with what Hobbytalk and James are saying, and never tried to insist an arbitrary standard to fit my own "true HD" definition. The only thing Hobbytalk may have problem is that my "true HD" reference is confusing, so I asked what you would use to describe the following:
> 
> Provide the capability to stream the HD recordings on my HD DVR to a remote location, so that when displayed on a similar 50" 1080p flat panel, it retains the same HD PQ as at home, whatever you think is good enough for you, just be able to "duplicate" the same experience, that is all. Not so different that what James you are saying.
> 
> 3) We already know all advanced HD DVRs (E* or D*) can "stream true HD" content, only that for now they are limited to "stream" from their own online HD VOD libraries. It will likely take some agreement before they can do so from Netflix, ABC, CBS, FOX and many other such libraries. The limitation is not technical, rather contractual.
> 
> Now with what said, I don't think one can say our discussion did not yield any fruits, it certainly did. Maybe it is not to your interest Steve, but apparently it is to the interest of others, including those who provided the above information and helped me to answer such questions.


So you also understand that Downloading HD Streams, works. You just need the proper equipment to view it on the TV and, HD Streaming its not a media format, that will only work on a PC.


----------



## jacmyoung

SaltiDawg said:


> So you want _no *noticeable* degradation of image quality at the remote viewing location. _ Seems a worthy desire.


All the many posts of mine did not sum it up better than what you just said



GrumpyBear said:


> So you also understand that Downloading HD Streams, works. You just need the proper equipment to view it on the TV and, HD Streaming its not a media format, that will only work on a PC.


On the other hand, I have no clue what you are saying, no offense, I am a slow person and it is evident from the above


----------



## Brandon428

Forgive me if someone has already asked this,but since the 922 has a built in web browser with flash could this work with Netflix? I think you need silverlight... but I'm not sure.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Brandon428 said:


> Forgive me if someone has already asked this,but since the 922 has a built in web browser with flash could this work with Netflix? I think you need silverlight... but I'm not sure.


Only those behind the secret doors know for sure. 
Some like me are SURE HOPING IT WILL.


----------



## FastNOC

I'm just curious. i was 5 hours after the announcement here that i joined the beta team request here. apparently that was too late to actually get in.

I'm curios if anyone else that signed up for it got in yet?


----------



## FastNOC

LOL nevermind, I just got my invitation and activated the DVR. this is REALLY cool.

Time to start playing

I have to say, this is really well done. There's a couple things I'd like to change, like not being able to view things in a listing mode. I dont need to see the picture of the show to know what the timer is by title usually. But otherwise, this is really very nice.nice use of ajax and javascript. 

of course there's room for improvement. One thing, and I noticed this from the screenshots before. it lends too much to the web 2.0 style. of course that's not bad, but in things like this i want my grids and options packed tightly. So i can cram as much info on one page as possible.

the main thing I really don't like about the ajax, is they're using a dynamicly loading tv listing grid. So when you're at say channel 100 and want to scroll to channel 350 it takes awhile because you have to do these data refreshes all the time. I'm sure they'll work it out.

The other pet peeve is the favorites listing in the grid. If I choose a list of networks as my favorites, i should be able to view the default grid view, but ONLY see those networks. Well it doesn't work like that. It simply puts a link on the left for each one of your favs. So you can only view one fav network at a time. blech. TVGuide knows how to do a great grid layout. I love theirs. Primarily because it's highly configurable which I'm hoping this progressively works towards.

By the way, those are the things I dislike. If I wrote a list of things I really like id be writing all day. It's almost exactly what I want in that type of service. I just wish I still had an iphone so i could use it as a remote


----------



## Sammy2368

Has DISH set a date to release the 922 yet? If so, what is that date?

I apologize if this has already been communicated, but I can't find it if it has.


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## GrumpyBear

No "Offical" release date as of yet.
Some of us have already put aside our $199 already.


----------



## RaceTripper

At the point DISH can provide me three 922s I may switch from DirecTV after 10 years. DirecTV has not been very compelling lately. Their hardware/software has gone essentially nowhere for the past 3 years. I have no major feature on the equipment I didn't have 3 years ago. The DISH 922 has what I would like to see.


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## GrumpyBear

RaceTripper said:


> At the point DISH can provide me three 922s I may switch from DirecTV after 10 years. DirecTV has not been very compelling lately. Their hardware/software has gone essentially nowhere for the past 3 years. I have no major feature on the equipment I didn't have 3 years ago. The DISH 922 has what I would like to see.


3 Would be a tall order, and "most" likely wont happen. 2 you could get, but not 3 of them on lease.


----------



## RaceTripper

GrumpyBear said:


> 3 Would be a tall order, and "most" likely wont happen. 2 you could get, but not 3 of them on lease.


What if one of the three is not a 922, but still something that is HD and supports viewing recordings from a network connected 922?


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## GrumpyBear

RaceTripper said:


> What if one of the three is not a 922, but still something that is HD and supports viewing recordings from a network connected 922?


It will depend on how many leased ViP's Dish will let you have. 
Considering that the ViP922 will count as a Dual unit for TV purposes, seems like you will only be able to lease 2 of them or 1 ViP922 and 1 ViP622/722(at least for now) if you need 3 and depending on "When" it starts to ship, you may want to find a ViP622/722 on Ebay or something. I just picked up a Brand new ViP722 for $285. Some have been able to get 3 Leased Recievers of the x22 type, but that doesn't seem to be the norm though.
So here is to "WITH LUCK" the August launch of the ViP922.


----------



## RaceTripper

GrumpyBear said:


> It will depend on how many leased ViP's Dish will let you have.
> Considering that the ViP922 will count as a Dual unit for TV purposes, seems like you will only be able to lease 2 of them or 1 ViP922 and 1 ViP622/722(at least for now) if you need 3 and depending on "When" it starts to ship, you may want to find a ViP622/722 on Ebay or something. I just picked up a Brand new ViP722 for $285. Some have been able to get 3 Leased Recievers of the x22 type, but that doesn't seem to be the norm though.
> So here is to "WITH LUCK" the August launch of the ViP922.


Hmmm...OK. I have three HDTVs and all have HD-DVR capability. Not getting that would be a deal breaker with DISH getting my business away from DirecTV. Maybe their new TIVO units will be better than what I have now, assuming they see the light of day.


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## Artorture

the 922 looks great, I just don't like the remote. It would be nice if they made a second verision paired with a remote with arrow keys and hardware keypad.


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## HobbyTalk

They said it will work with a standard Dish remote.


----------



## unr1

if it's a 200 dollar upgrade (which I doubt) then I can't wait 

I already have a slingbox so I'll get to have an extra stream


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## Galaxie6411

Wonder how long it will be before Harmony comes out with a universal remote that will have a track pad like that? I like the track pad but I like having 1 Harmony remote for everything more.


----------



## DustoMan

Galaxie6411 said:


> Wonder how long it will be before Harmony comes out with a universal remote that will have a track pad like that? I like the track pad but I like having 1 Harmony remote for everything more.


They probably won't. There's no reason to spend all the R&D money on a new remote just to support one device. Take a look at the PS3, people give Harmony a hard time because they don't have a model that supports Bluetooth to operate the PS3 Blu-Ray functions. Again, why add the cost of a BT radio that will only be used by one device. If this new pointer-based GUI would be the start of a new standard in consumer electronics, then there's more of an incentive to support such a interface.


----------



## HDsnob

Any word on when these might be released? I'm looking to switch to Dish because they offer my locals, but I want to wait for the 922. Any insight is appreciated!


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## Steve

HDsnob said:


> Any word on when these might be released? [...]


The January press release was vague: _"DISH Network will offer the ViP(R) 922 to customers in Spring 2009."_

/steve


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## Ron Barry

During the last Tech/Charlie Chat they mentioned June time frame, but I given we are talking a complex box with I am sure complex software I would not count on that time frame being a hard one. Even when it does release, I would expect short supply and give it about 6 month to a year for the box to fully stabilize.


----------



## harsh

As the software was substantially demonstrated at CES, I doubt it was very far from being done in January.


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## SDiego

Well it's May 5th and I been search via the web any more info on time frames on the release, and found nothing. I am surprised it's not being talked about much. Or even cost to upgrade ext. Anyone heard anything at all?


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## Mr. Vega

this coming monday night is the tech forum. maybe some info to come then.

stay tuned.


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## Galaxie6411

I've been thinking about the 922 lately as well. My 622 is starting to act more and more goofy so I can't wait to upgrade.


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## jkane

That's what they do. They put flaky software on the units they want people to upgrade 3-6 months before releasing the new one. :lol:


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## FCBarca

I've read estimates on launch as early as Summer but as late as early 2010


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## hawker152

It's august first . I have said this 10 times. August for sure


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## quannj

well if it's 8/1 then my DNS with have them 2 wks b4 the schedule release date so we can demo it during our weekly training..I've been bugging warehouse about this as they are on look out 2 for these boxes..


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## search4it

HobbyTalk said:


> They said it will work with a standard Dish remote.


I have been informed that the 922 will only work with the 30.0 remote.

Fall if your lucky...
2010 probably more likely...

happy dvr'n...

:hurah:


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