# The iPad Thread



## Chris Blount

Apple is set to release a tablet on Wednesday. How much do you think it will cost?


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## Chris Blount

I am guessing $699 or $599. Those would be good price points.


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## Stuart Sweet

I said $799 but I would not be surprised if there was a subsidized version (presumably from AT&T) that was lower in price but required a data plan commitment.


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## Stewart Vernon

I'm not sure.

On the one hand, the top-of-line iPhone is about $500... so one would think the tablet would have to be more than that... BUT if it gets too close to $1000, I think it would lost out to folks willing to spend a little bit more for a full-fledged notebook.

On the other hand... the cheaper the tablet is, the more expensive proportionally the iPhone will seem... so if the tablet comes in at $700... the iPhone at $500 will start to look too expensive.

Personally, I'm hoping for $750 or less for the tablet AND a price drop on the iPhone line.


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## Grentz

$799-$899 is my guess. I think it should be more in the $599 - $699 range though personally.


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## drded

If it is like everything else Apple, too much...but that won't stop hoards of people from wanting and getting one.

Dave


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## Grentz

drded said:


> If it is like everything else Apple, too much...but that won't stop hoards of people from wanting and getting one.
> 
> Dave


That is the thing, I already know it will be priced above what I think is fair for it. Their products are always overpriced in the beginning and sometimes continuing on as well.


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## Marlin Guy

drded said:


> If it is like everything else Apple, too much...but that won't stop hoards of people from wanting and getting one.
> 
> Dave


What he said.

Initially, it will cost twice what you can get it for if you wait 6-8 months. :nono:


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## Chris Blount

Look, I really don't want this to turn into yet another Apple bashing thread. We all know about the "Appletax". If more than 80% of the posts in this thread are going to be about how Apple stuff is overpriced then there is no point in having this discussion as we have covered that ground before.

I just thought it would be fun to see who can say "I told you so" on Wednesday.


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## davring

To justify the iPhone's $599.00 price tag the tablet would have to come in substantially higher, $799.00 or more.


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## BubblePuppy

Even though I voted for $699, I think it will go for closer to a grand, at least for a while.


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## Marlin Guy

Chris Blount said:


> I just thought it would be fun to see who can say "I told you so" on Wednesday.


Then why did you stop at $999?
I was thinking it would be higher than that.

I submit a write-in vote for $1150.


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## Greg Alsobrook

I voted $699.


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## Chris Blount

Marlin Guy said:


> Then why did you stop at $999?
> I was thinking it would be higher than that.
> 
> I submit a write-in vote for $1150.


This poll is for the low end model. I really doubt it will be over a grand when you can get a Macbook Pro for $1199.


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## Stuart Sweet

I guess it depends if they see it as a replacement for a MacBook. I mean, Apple's pulled some stuff out of their hats before... maybe they can create a device that makes typing on the glass as comfortable as typing on a keyboard.


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## RobertE

<Dr. Evil>
1 Million Dollars
</Dr. Evil>

Since that's not an option, I went for $999


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## BubblePuppy

Stuart Sweet said:


> I guess it depends if they see it as a replacement for a MacBook. I mean, Apple's pulled some stuff out of their hats before... maybe they can create a device *that makes typing on the glass as comfortable as typing on a keyboard.*


From my experience Apple didn't do it for me with the iphone. I like real keys. But it very well could be that Apple learned from it. I will be interested in seeing this device. They have set high goals before.


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## Hansen

I'd say $899.


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## Chris Blount

Stuart Sweet said:


> I said $799 but I would not be surprised if there was a subsidized version (presumably from AT&T) that was lower in price but required a data plan commitment.


 I forgot about that. I can see a subsidized version going for about $499. Unsubsidized maybe $999 or slightly less.


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## dave29

I think it will come out at $699.


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## Lee L

I guess between $899 and $999 retail. Subsidy could knock it down to $599 though.


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## DCSholtis

Rumor I saw on a Mac fan site was that in Germany it will sell for 899 Euros with a 199 Euro per month T-Mobile data plan.


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## tcusta00

One dollar, Bob! 



$699.


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## P Smith

Apple is Apple. $999


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## Nick

I say more than $999 but I checked that.

*Game Changer*: Heard on MSNBC this morning that CNBC's Erin Burnett did an interview with the CEO of McGraw-Hill Publishers yesterday and he said that the iTablet will function as an ebook and they have a consortium of education publishers ready to convert textbooks to Apples ebook format. He also said that M-H already has 95% of their publications ready in electronic format.

This is going to be huge (not hugh) in the .edu and business realm, but my question is, if I'm a student and I'm already carrying an Apple laptop in my backpack, why can't I download my textbooks to my LT?


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## ncxcstud

Nick said:


> I say more than $999 but I checked that.
> 
> *Game Changer*: Heard on MSNBC this morning that CNBC's Erin Burnett did an interview with the CEO of McGraw-Hill Publishers yesterday and he said that the iTablet will function as an ebook and they have a consortium of education publishers ready to convert textbooks to Apples ebook format. He also said that M-H already has *95% of their publications ready in electronic format. *
> 
> This is going to be huge (not hugh) in the .edu and business realm, but my question is, if I'm a student and I'm already carrying an Apple laptop in my backpack, why can't I download my textbooks to my LT?


if i remember the interview, i think he said 95% of their electronic formats are ready for the iTablet or whatever apple will call it today...not 95% of their entire publications, but I could be wrong...


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## Nick

It was from memory, but perhaps I should have said '_compatible_ electronic format', the point being that making _textbooks_ available electronically, whether on an apple tablet or on an e-reader like the Kindle DX, is a HUGE game changer, a quantum leap, if you will.


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## Lee L

Well, we will probably know is a few minutes, but supposedly reliable sources have said $999 with a $200 discount for signing up for 2 years of Verizon service.


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## Chris Blount

Poll is closed. Lets see what happens.


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## trdrjeff

That sounds horrible...


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## BubblePuppy

http://www.timesasia.net/apple-ipad-tablet-pc-video-revealed-11291187.htm

http://live.gizmodo.com/


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## houskamp

does it come in a bright pink box? :lol:


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## trdrjeff

CNBC is showing it now...


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## trdrjeff

houskamp said:


> does it come in a bright pink box? :lol:


lol, men will be embarrassed to go out and pick one up for their wives


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## BubblePuppy

houskamp said:


> does it come in a bright pink box? :lol:


No but there are strings attached. 

Oh sorry, that is the ipon.


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## trdrjeff

1GHz Apple A4 chip, 16GB, 32GB and 64GB flash memory. Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.

Battery life is 10 hours


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## Stuart Sweet

Still waiting on a price...


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## trdrjeff

and will it involve a 'contract' ?


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## ncxcstud

I'd still use a laptop to do everything that the iPad does.... Sorry, call me a 'apple hater' but I'm not really impressed...especially for playing games.... It looks like it is made for two hands, but I can't imagine playing a game with two hands on, effectively a piece of paper...


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## dpeters11

trdrjeff said:


> and will it involve a 'contract' ?


No mention yet of a cell connection, just 802.11n and bluetooth.


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## trdrjeff

iBooks introduced, direct attack on Amazon now...


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## Curtis0620

based on the stats: 16GB, 32GB & 64GB of memory, this can not sell for much more than an iPod touch.

I'm guessing 16GB $259-$299
32GB $359-$399
63GB $459-$499

Only competing with NetBooks and eReaders (e.g. Kindle).


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## Greg Alsobrook

trdrjeff said:


> iBooks introduced, direct attack on Amazon now...


He did give Amazon the credit they deserve though.


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## LarryFlowers

Curtis0620 said:


> based on the stats: 16GB, 32GB & 64GB of memory, this can not sell for much more than an iPod touch.
> 
> I'm guessing 16GB $259-$299
> 32GB $359-$399
> 63GB $459-$499
> 
> Only competing with NetBooks and eReaders (e.g. Kindle).


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Starting price will be $699


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## dpeters11

LarryFlowers said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Starting price will be $699


Yeah, this is Apple. You have to pay into the Turtleneck fund.


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## Stuart Sweet

At this point price will be a major factor. This would be an incredible hit at $299, a total miss at $1599 and anything in between... should be interesting.


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## Greg Alsobrook




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## trdrjeff

"some" models will have 3G


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## Lee L

OK, how are they going to justify current iPhone data plan pricing? Lots of people would kill to save 50% on data for 250 gig a month.

If they do another ATT exclusive deal, it really will put the fire to ATT and Apple since this is just another data hungry device that ATT can;t support on its crap network.

Then again, if the rumors bout iPhone to Verizon or true, it may free up some bandwidth for them. 

Ok, here comes the pricing. Says they were very agressive on price goals.


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## Greg Alsobrook

Starts at $499


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## ncxcstud

Pricing starts at 499...


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## Lee L

Wow, starting at $499.

Holy moly, 3g harware is expensive! Add $130 for it.


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## trdrjeff

If AT&T is having BW issues with iPhone users how does something streaming HD video help that? 

I don't see how a lot of people are going to pony up for data service at home, their iphone and now again for their iPad?


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## Curtis0620

LarryFlowers said:


> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Starting price will be $699


Then they won't sell many.

$700 for nothing more than a bigger screen on an iPod touch, no thank you.


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## Greg Alsobrook




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## bobnielsen

and the price is...$499


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## spartanstew

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Starts at $499


I believe that's what I voted (but might have been $399).


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## Greg Alsobrook

"We will be shipping these in 60 days. 3G models will ship in 90 days."


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## spartanstew

Lee L said:


> Wow, starting at $499.
> 
> Holy moly, 3g harware is expensive! Add $130 for it.


Check your math.

doh: Ninja edit.


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## Lee L

spartanstew said:


> I believe that's what I voted (but might have been $399).


You voted category should be italicised if you want to check.


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## ncxcstud

So, they have a keyboard dock...essentially giving you a 9.7 inch desktop computer....


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## Lee L

spartanstew said:


> Check your math.
> 
> doh: Ninja edit.


Sorry about that, I hit the wrong key.


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## P Smith

3G support


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## dpeters11

Lee L said:


> OK, how are they going to justify current iPhone data plan pricing? Lots of people would kill to save 50% on data for 250 gig a month.
> 
> If they do another ATT exclusive deal, it really will put the fire to ATT and Apple since this is just another data hungry device that ATT can;t support on its crap network.
> 
> Then again, if the rumors bout iPhone to Verizon or true, it may free up some bandwidth for them.
> 
> Ok, here comes the pricing. Says they were very agressive on price goals.


250 meg a month for $15. Big difference. How many HD movies is that?


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## Lee L

Tell me the rumors of two dock connectors are true. THe keyboard dock just screams out to allow landscape mode.


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## spartanstew

Lee L said:


> You voted category should be italicised if you want to check.


Yep, $499. I win.

Do I win a free Ipad, Chris?


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## Lee L

dpeters11 said:


> 250 meg a month for $15. Big difference. How many HD movies is that?


Oops, still, 250 meg a month should do for lots of people if you have access to wifi most of the time.


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## Stuart Sweet

I think Apple may have a winner here. Solid shots across the bows of Acer and Amazon. Pricing puts it a little out of my reach right now but I think the students will eat it up.


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## Greg Alsobrook

I must say... I'm pretty disappointed that this thing doesn't seem to have any sort of built-in camera... Specifically a front facing one for video chats... Which is something I find really lacking with the iPhone.


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## trdrjeff

The real price is $630 if you want to take it out of the home. $499 is more of a tease IMHO


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## harsh

Well that was an enormous disappointment.

Many were expecting a capable computer and what they got was a big iPod Touch. Wireless phone apps are not my idea of practical applications software.

Certainly it has a place among the gadget freaks, but as an alternative to a notebook computer, I submit that it is a non-starter.


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## ncxcstud

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think Apple may have a winner here. Solid shots across the bows of Acer and Amazon.* Pricing puts it a little out of my reach right now but I think the students will eat it up*.


If it has a chewed on apple, the students will always eat it up...


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## Stuart Sweet

Yep you're right. 

Here's the way I see it...

Your average netbook is about $300. For that you get a bigger screen, faster processor, 10x the hard drive, and a real keyboard. It still runs iTunes and the Kindle app for e-books. It also runs a zillion PC apps.

On the other hand, you get an OS that's not really optimized for a small form factor device, and that's where Apple really excels. I have to give them credit for their industrial design and usability. You also don't get a touchscreen of any kind. 

This is a very cool device, it does look like you need to spend about $700 for one that really does what you want, but it is very cool. And cool sells, especially if you're under 30 and single.


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## dmurphy

Stuart Sweet said:


> This is a very cool device, it does look like you need to spend about $700 for one that really does what you want, but it is very cool. And cool sells, especially if you're under 30 and single.


Crap, that explains it all!

I'm over 30 and married.... I guess that's the male equivalent of menopause?


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## ncxcstud

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yep you're right.
> 
> Here's the way I see it...
> 
> Your average netbook is about $300. For that you get a bigger screen, 10x the hard drive, and a real keyboard. It still runs iTunes and the Kindle app for e-books.
> 
> On the other hand, you get an OS that's not really optimized for a small form factor device, and that's where Apple really excels. I have to give them credit for their industrial design and usability. You also don't get a touchscreen of any kind.
> 
> This is a very cool device, it does look like you need to spend about $700 for one that really does what you want, but it is very cool. And cool sells, especially if you're under 30 and single.


Apart from the eBook feature, i'm not entirely impressed. It is a big iPod.

As a 'gamer' I'm not impressed with the input device for it, the touchscreen controls on some games aren't that responsive and I'd rather press a button than tap with my finger (of course, I've yet to play with one, which i almost certainly will when they come to the Apple Stores in the next few months).

I certainly wouldn't want to type on it, at least not like I would on a keyboard, that think will kill my back, lol.

Two areas where I see a device like this excelling are in limited (though profitable) niches. Medicine and school text books. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if textbooks were still ridiculously expensive...

At the moment, there is no mention of multitasking, no Flash support (apparent at the moment from their presentation), which is weird since doesn't Apple own Adobe now?


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## Stuart Sweet

Don't forget that you can get the Kindle app for an iPhone or laptop. There's your e-book reader.


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## ncxcstud

True Stuart, I forgot about that.

I truly don't see a need for this product, it's niche at best.

I like the iPhone, but it is too expensive /month to own. My laptop does everything the iPad does, and from what I can tell, more comfortably because it has a hinge and a full keyboard (mine is only 14.3 inches, so it isn't much bigger screen wise than the iPad).

if you already have an iPhone, the only thing the iPad over it is screen size, the iPhone has phone calling over the iPad (i'd rather make calls).


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## harsh

ncxcstud said:


> At the moment, there is no mention of multitasking, no Flash support (apparent at the moment from their presentation), which is weird since doesn't Apple own Adobe now?


Apple and Adobe aren't really even much of friends anymore much less one owning the other.


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## Garyunc

The apps are going to make it or break it. 
Can you imagine watching your home tv on it via sling player on the big screen? That would be cool.

What about working remotely using 
https://secure.logmein.com/products/ignition/iphone/? I use this product now sometimes and I could see myself using a full screen version of it. The iphone version is hard to use but a full screen version would be much easier.

I wonder what the 3g data plan charge will be for it?

One problem I see is that they would be way easier to steal than a laptop. It's need some kind of fingerprint security on it that could not be overridden even after a reinstall to reduce theft. (I know that will not be on there but the people who buy them better make darn sure they are secure and with them at all times and avoid bad places to use them


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## ncxcstud

harsh said:


> Apple and Adobe aren't really even much of friends anymore much less one owning the other.


I'll admit, I don't stay on top of Adobe/Apple that much, heck all I know about Adobe is their Flash player (or really any for that matter) doesn't work in 64-bit environments, which sucks for the work that I want to do with a Powerpoint Presentation for Confirmation classes...

I remember a rumor that Apple was going to buy Adobe a few years ago, I guess it turned out to be just a rumor after all


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## ncxcstud

Garyunc said:


> The apps are going to make it or break it.
> Can you imagine watching your home tv on it via sling player on the big screen? That would be cool.
> 
> What about working remotely using
> https://secure.logmein.com/products/ignition/iphone/? I use this product now sometimes and I could see myself using a full screen version of it. The iphone version is hard to use but a full screen version would be much easier.
> 
> *I wonder what the 3g data plan charge will be for it? *
> 
> One problem I see is that they would be way easier to steal than a laptop. It's need some kind of fingerprint security on it that could not be overridden even after a reinstall to reduce theft. (I know that will not be on there but the people who buy them better make darn sure they are secure and with them at all times and avoid bad places to use them


14.99/month for less than 250 MBs/month

29.99 for unlimited data

All through AT&T


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## Stuart Sweet

ncxcstud said:


> I'll admit, I don't stay on top of Adobe/Apple that much, heck all I know about Adobe is their Flash player (or really any for that matter) doesn't work in 64-bit environments, which sucks for the work that I want to do with a Powerpoint Presentation for Confirmation classes...
> 
> I remember a rumor that Apple was going to buy Adobe a few years ago, I guess it turned out to be just a rumor after all


I can run the flash player just fine on my Core 2 Duo laptop (PC) as well as my Core Duo Mac. I don't think it runs on 64-bit Internet Explorer, but few plug-ins do.

Adobe was started with seed money from the Apple founders, many years ago, and the relationship was rosy for a long time. These days Adobe seems to feel there's a much larger market out there.


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## ncxcstud

Stuart Sweet said:


> I can run the flash player just fine on my Core 2 Duo laptop (PC) as well as my Core Duo Mac. I don't think it runs on 64-bit Internet Explorer, but few plug-ins do.
> 
> Adobe was started with seed money from the Apple founders, many years ago, and the relationship was rosy for a long time. These days Adobe seems to feel there's a much larger market out there.


No, i can watch Flash through FireFox fine....however, i cannot watch embedded flash videos in a powerpoint presentation at all on Windows 7 64-bit.

I have to open the file up (or associate flash programs to) with Firefox in order to view them.

It's annoying


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## ncxcstud

I also realized that (obviously without knowing pricing for textbooks) this device could end up costing students MORE money in the long run than just buying textbooks (but it sure won't be advertised that way )

You'll have to buy the iPad for anywhere between 499-829. If you get the 3G version you'll be paying 14.99-30 a month... then you'll have to buy your text books on it as well. As opposed to just purchasing ridiculously expensive textbooks that Amazon and other used booksellers have already made much cheaper for students


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## Earl Bonovich

Okay, I just done my first round of reading up on the new iPad.

Is it me or basically:
iPad = Larger iPod-Touch, with a Cellular Data Connection option?

I mean it is running the iPhone 3.2 OS (the current demo version).
Single App thread (no multiple applications running at the same time)

So obviously the larger screen is going to bring it's benefits from a reading and web browsing point of view, but you lose all the convience of having it in your backpocket.

Not sure if it is worth the $$$ they put on it, as you really can't use it as a practical audio device.


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## Greg Alsobrook

From Engadet's "hands on":



> * It's not light. It feels pretty weighty in your hand.
> * The screen is stunning, and it's 1024 x 768. Feels just like a huge iPhone in your hands.
> * The speed of the CPU is something to be marveled at. It is blazingly fast from what we can tell. Webpages loaded up super fast, and scrolling was without a hiccup. Moving into and out of apps was a breeze. Everything flew.
> * There's no multitasking at all. It's a real disappointment. All this power and very little you can do with it at once. No multitasking means no streaming Pandora when you're working in Pages... you can figure it out. It's a real setback for this device.
> * The ebook implementation is about as close as you can get to reading without a stack of bound paper in your hand. The visual stuff really helps flesh out the experience. It may be just for show, but it counts here.
> * No camera. None, nada. Zip. No video conferencing here folks. Hell, it doesn't have an SMS app!
> * It's running iPhone OS 3.2.
> * The keyboard is good, not great. Not quite as responsive as it looked in the demos.


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## P Smith

Apple did try to make new own niche, same time cutting pie from netbooks and eReaders.


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## Earl Bonovich

P Smith said:


> Apple did try to make new own niche, same time cutting pie from netbooks and eReaders.


IMHO, I think maybe they can make a dent in the eReader area.
But Kindle already has the biggest advantage, Amazon and a two year head start. I know my grandmother just purchase a kindle, and no way she is going to drop $500 on an iPad

As for the netbooks: I don't think it is going to do much to the netbooks.

You can get netbooks for sub $200, and while slower in most cases, they can do more are are closer to a traditional laptop, then it isn't. And at sub $200, if it gets lost/stolen/broken it is an easier pill to swallow then a $500/$700 unit.

And make no mistake, those iPad's are going to shine out "steal me", just like iPod's and iPhone's do today.


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## BubblePuppy

I don't think it was well thought out ergonomically. The screen is going to be very hard to read when it is laying flat on a table. Just put your laptop screen perpendicular to you line of sight, almost impossible to read. And then to type on it, it will have to lay flat, you will have to use two hands on a screen you can barely read, certainly will be hard to type on it holding it up at angle with one hand trying to type with other. This thing had better be light.
The iphone-ipod touch is far better suited for this. Bigger isn't always better.


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## Greg Alsobrook

BubblePuppy said:


> I don't think it was well thought out ergonomically. The screen is going to be very hard to read when it is laying flat on a table. Just put your laptop screen perpendicular to you line of sight, almost impossible to read. And then to type on it, it will have to lay flat, you will have to use two hands on a screen you can barely read, certainly will be hard to type on it holding it up at angle with one hand trying to type with other. This thing had better be light.
> The iphone-ipod touch is far better suited for this. Bigger isn't always better.


Supposedly the screen is easily viewable from all angles... So I don't think laying it on a table is going to cause problems. If it's anything like the screen of an iPhone, it definitely won't be an issue.


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## trdrjeff

> ** There's no multitasking at all. It's a real disappointment. All this power and very little you can do with it at once. No multitasking means no streaming Pandora when you're working in Pages... you can figure it out. It's a real setback for this device.*


That kind of kills the idea it can be a netbook killer


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## dpeters11

trdrjeff said:


> That kind of kills the idea it can be a netbook killer


Jailbreak, install Backgrounder.

But we shouldn't have to do that.


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## BubblePuppy

Greg Alsobrook said:


> *Supposedly* the screen is easily viewable from all angles... So I don't think laying it on a table is going to cause problems. If it's anything like the screen of an iPhone, it definitely won't be an issue.


I'll be interested in seeing the device. Not going to buy one though, I have a iphone at my disposal.


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## BubblePuppy

trdrjeff said:


> That kind of kills the idea it can be a netbook killer


The iphone doesn't multi-task either. Don't know about the ipod-Touch. What is Jobs thinking?


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## ncxcstud

BubblePuppy said:


> The iphone doesn't multi-task either. Don't know about the ipod-Touch. What is Jobs thinking?


the iPad is essentially an iPod Touch XL. The only thing it (iPad) can do that the iTouch can't is iWork at this point...


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## Stuart Sweet

So I''m thinking that iPad 2.0 will need a few more tweaks before you all accept it. Frankly I'm surprised at the negative feedback, but also quite pleased that it seems most people realize a netbook is a better bet.

So, iPad 2.0 should be half the price but have:

True 720p screen
Multitasking/multiple apps
Forward-facing video camera and app support for popular programs like Skype
Haptic feedback on the keyboard
ability to be used as a phone

That would do it for me...


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## BubblePuppy

And a app for this:


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## jsmuga

I can't wait to purchase one as soon as it is released.


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## Greg Alsobrook

It appears that Gizmodo doesn't care for it: http://i.gizmodo.com/5458382/8-things-that-suck-about-the-ipad

:lol:


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## Tony Chick

I'm a mostly-happy iPhone user but this still has all the things that bug me about the phone:
No external flash memory slot - you have to pre-choose the amount of memory and can't upgrade.
No removable battery
No multi-tasking - the OS can do it, but they won't allow it for non-Apple apps.

And at least the phone fits in my pocket.


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## Earl Bonovich

jsmartin99 said:


> I can't wait to purchase one as soon as it is released.


Really? Please explain why...

That is a serious question, as I just can't see a compelling reason to get v1 of this device, especially at the price point and the feature set that has presented so far.


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## cygnusloop

I actually pretty impressed. To me, the large format display is a major upgrade. I love the iPhone, but I hate the tiny screens. 

This is the type of device I always pictured my kid carrying into school with him after I drop him off in my flying car.


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## BubblePuppy

Greg Alsobrook said:


> It appears that Gizmodo doesn't care for it: http://i.gizmodo.com/5458382/8-things-that-suck-about-the-ipad
> 
> :lol:


And I think that I have covered two of the items in two of my pots:


> Touch Keyboard
> So much for Apple revolutionizing tablet inputs; this is the same big, ugly touchscreen keyboard we've seen on other tablets, *and unless you're lying on the couch with your knees propping it up, it'll be awkward to use.*
> 
> *The Name iPad
> Get ready for Maxi pad jokes, and lots of 'em!*
> :lol:


----------



## jsmuga

Earl Bonovich said:


> Really? Please explain why...
> 
> That is a serious question, as I just can't see a compelling reason to get v1 of this device, especially at the price point and the feature set that has presented so far.


I have used a couple of netbooks and was not impressed. I like the size and design especially for surfing the web. I also like using the apps from itunes. I have a couple of laptops so this will serve as a device between my iphone and laptops.


----------



## dpeters11

Stuart Sweet said:


> [*]ability to be used as a phone
> [/LIST]
> 
> That would do it for me...


VOIP would be killer. It does support Bluetooth after all. It's big, sure. But at least it's light.

Maybe another jailbreak app.


----------



## Grentz

This thing is very interesting. I was at first very excited at the price, but then I saw what it actually does (and lacks)...very disappointing from Apple. The HUGE bezel also looks like crap IMO. They really should have slimmed that down.

IMO it needs a better resolution screen (ok, maybe the current one is ok), multitasking, more focus on big boy apps (not just ipod/iphone apps (no flash is a PITA again too)), and then we would really be cooking. I guess I am just disappointed that this is less of a real OS and more of just another iPod/iPhone device. I was hoping for a OSX netbook version type OS. This is no where near a netbook or independent machine, it is again based on single tasks and no power user type use. In comparison to the HP slate, this is a toy sadly. Without even simple file management there is no way to use it as an independent machine. You need to load everything into the proper apps from your big rig back home.

The 3G plans sound awesome though, nice that you can get a good discount on them. But a rip that they charge so much for the 3G addon initially IMO.


----------



## Steve

I wasn't surprised it's just an iPod with a larger screen, as you can see from another discussion we had back in the fall. I am disappointed there isn't a better "keyboard" solution for students, tho.

As far as who will win the "book" wars (iPad, Nook, Kindle, Sony), it should be whoever has the most college textbooks available.


----------



## spartanstew

BubblePuppy said:


> *The Name iPad
> Get ready for Maxi pad jokes, and lots of 'em!*
> :lol:


There's already at least one funny video on youtube if you search for ipad.


----------



## Grentz

Steve said:


> I wasn't surprised it's just an iPod with a larger screen, as you can see from another discussion we had back in the fall. I am disappointed there isn't a better "keyboard" solution for students, tho.
> 
> As far as who will win the "book" wars (iPad, Nook, Kindle, Sony), it should be whoever has the most college textbooks available.


and kindle already has quite a few. The problem is greedy publishers charging so much for them that you might as well get the paper versions to sell again.

Students also need more of an OS where you can save files, work on Word Processing documents, save pictures, etc. The way the iPod/iPhone/iPad OS is you need to constantly connect back and sync to move files around and preload them into programs (like photos). Even Windows Mobile has file management and can act as more of an independent OS...I really don't get why Apple does not try to meet a middle ground between full OSX and iPhone/iPod single app simplisticville.


----------



## Rob77

I was at first excited about this.....BUT...no camera....no flash software....no multitasking....etc. :nono:


----------



## Steve

Grentz said:


> and kindle already has quite a few. The problem is greedy publishers charging so much for them that you might as well get the paper versions to sell again.


Good point. Someone needs to investigate this "monopoly", IMO.


> Students also need more of an OS where you can save files, work on Word Processing documents, save pictures, etc.


While far from perfect, I think "cloud" computing, like Google Docs, can address this need satisfactorily. It's the keyboard that really needs addressing, IMHO.


----------



## cygnusloop

Steve said:


> ... It's the keyboard that really needs addressing, IMHO.


Steve, did you see the keyboard dock?

From here:
http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/


----------



## Chris Blount

I will be getting one mainly for reading. Right now reading our local newspaper on the Kindle is a joke. The iPad will pretty much take away the whole reason to receive a printed newspaper and magazines.

Quite frankly I'm excited.


----------



## ncxcstud

cygnusloop said:


> Steve, did you see the keyboard dock?
> 
> From here:
> http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/


doesn't that destroy the whole 'mobility' of what the iPad touts itself to be? at least with a netbook or laptop, I don't need separate docks to do stuff.

If you're going to get that keyboard dock, you might as well just get a macbook or pc laptop...


----------



## cygnusloop

ncxcstud said:


> doesn't that destroy the whole 'mobility' of what the iPad touts itself to be? at least with a netbook or laptop, I don't need separate docks to do stuff.
> 
> If you're going to get that keyboard dock, you might as well just get a macbook or pc laptop...


I understand where you are coming from, *stud. But, the netbooks that I have had the opportunity to use have all been clunky, slow, and very cheap feeling. If the multi-touch technology just isn't for you, then yes, why not just get a laptop.To me, the keyboard is something that stays at home, for occasional use.

I don't know how old you are, but I know that I'm not the target demo for this device. My kids are.

I guess I'm looking at this device more for what it can be 5 years from now, instead of what it is today.


----------



## Steve

cygnusloop said:


> Steve, did you see the keyboard dock?
> 
> From here:
> http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/


Thx. I didn't see that. I was expecting something built-in tho, for classroom notetaking, e.g. I'm not sure what, but something that might make me say "Wow!"

As *ncxstud *points out, if you have to schlep all that around, you're probably better off with a $299 netboot.


----------



## BubblePuppy

BubblePuppy said:


> And a app for this:





spartanstew said:


> There's already at least one funny video on youtube if you search for ipad.


See post #92


----------



## davemayo

Chris Blount said:


> I will be getting one mainly for reading.


+1

This is the only reason I would get one. I don't have an iPhone; I'm a BB guy, but I do have 1st gen iTouch that I could replace with this.


----------



## cygnusloop

Steve said:


> Thx. I didn't see that. I was expecting something built-in tho, for classroom notetaking, e.g. I'm not sure what, but something that might make me say "Wow!"
> 
> As *ncxstud *points out, if you have to schlep all that around, you're probably better off with a $299 netboot.


Not clear if you saw it, but there is an onscreen keyboard, and when Jobs was demonstrating it, he seemed to have no issues with it. (Clearly, he is a very experienced demonstrator, so read into that what you choose.) From what I know about Jobs, if it didn't work, it wouldn't be released.

And again, I see it as an educational tool, for those much younger than me. The "touch" keyboard is much less off-putting to my son than it is to me.


----------



## Steve

cygnusloop said:


> Not clear if you saw it, but there is an onscreen keyboard, and when Jobs was demonstrating it, he seemed to have no issues with it. (I understand he is a very experienced demonstrator, though)


I did see it, but I'm a touch-typist and can't see myself being able to keep up with a prof while taking notes. That said, in all fairness, I _should_ really give it a try before disparaging it.


----------



## davemayo

Boy Genius Report is speculating that there could be an updated OS version on the iPad when it is launched that might include multi-tasking.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/01/27/is-the-apple-ipad-os-unfinished/


----------



## cygnusloop

Steve said:


> I did see it, but I'm a touch-typist and can't see myself being able to keep up with a prof while taking notes. That said, in all fairness, I _should_ really give it a try before disparaging it.


Again, *I* agree with you. But this is the "new world".

Having spent much of the last decade as faculty at the U. of Colorado, I can tell you kids don't "take" notes anymore. Class "notes" are typically downloaded as ppt or pdf files before class from the class website. Completed assignments are often uploaded on the class website. Graded assignments are then available for download, as well.

Now, with a device like this imagine sitting in class, and the lesson is an interactive one, presented in real time with real feedback on your own personal connected device. Progress and understanding are tracked in real time, and lesson plans are adjusted on the fly. Assignments are automatically beamed into the device, and automatically retrieved. Real time progress reports are available to parents. And so on...

This type of device is being designed by our kids, and they ain't designing it for us, buddy. :eek2::eek2:


----------



## RunnerFL

Considering I was looking to shell out around $600 for a netbook and a "Nook" I see the iPad as a great alternative. I'm pretty excited as well and will probably pick one up in 60 days.

The only thing I wish they'd do is with the 3G data plan. I wish they'd just let us that already own an iPhone with a data plan pay say $10 extra a month instead of a full extra $30.


----------



## RunnerFL

Steve said:


> I did see it, but I'm a touch-typist and can't see myself being able to keep up with a prof while taking notes. That said, in all fairness, I _should_ really give it a try before disparaging it.


There is also a case for it that they are showing on apple.com that allows you to put the iPad down on your desk at an angle so you can use the built in keyboard in landscape mode. Looks really slick.

The same case will also allow you to stand it straight up, in landscape mode, for watching movies.


----------



## Steve

cygnusloop said:


> [...] This type of device is being designed by our kids, and they ain't designing it for us, buddy. :eek2::eek2:


Wow... way to make me feel like an old fart! :lol: It's been so long since I've been in school, I had no idea!


----------



## Stuart Sweet

cygnusloop said:


> This type of device is being designed by our kids, and they ain't designing it for us, buddy. :eek2::eek2:


And well it should be.

I only hope that the device doesn't become more entertaining than the lecture...


----------



## Steve

RunnerFL said:


> There is also a case for it that they are showing on apple.com that allows you to put the iPad down on your desk at an angle so you can use the built in keyboard in landscape mode. Looks really slick.


Ya. I just saw that, which makes me think even more I really need to try it before I knock it.


----------



## Grentz

cygnusloop said:


> I understand where you are coming from, *stud. But, the netbooks that I have had the opportunity to use have all been clunky, slow, and very cheap feeling. If the multi-touch technology just isn't for you, then yes, why not just get a laptop.To me, the keyboard is something that stays at home, for occasional use.
> 
> I don't know how old you are, but I know that I'm not the target demo for this device. My kids are.
> 
> I guess I'm looking at this device more for what it can be 5 years from now, instead of what it is today.


You need to try better netbooks then. The iPad is slower than any decent netbook and will run much less software (thus is really ultimately much less powerful). Netbooks are just mini laptops running a full OS still, this is nothing close to that. There also are some very nice netbooks out there. I have the Lenovo S10-2 which is a great little machine. ASUS also has some higher end netbooks and the samsung ones are very nice as well.

The biggest issue is the keyboard for ANY type of note taking or anything official (even word processing). An on screen keyboard will never be as quick as mechanical keys even for "new generations". I am a 100 wpm+ typer and there is no way on screen is going to get to be that quick any time soon. The addon keyboard is ok, but frankly that whole package is bulkier than my netbook which is more powerful, can run a full OS with all the programs I need, and is fully independent if I need it to be. The hilarious thing is that they are really just copying ideas from Tablet PCs that were out 5-10yrs ago. The detachable keyboard concept is nothing new, and I had tons of people pitching me Tablet PC cases with keyboards built into them. These old tablets were a bit thicker and not as nice to look at, but they ran a full desktop OS and were more powerful than the iPad. The iPad is not forecasting any real future as this device leads to Tablet PCs which have been done in thousands of shapes and forms. Frankly to stay competitive it needs to keep in its niche, or else move up to be the thing most have been anticipating which is a full blown OSX tablet like the Modbook.

I was hoping this was going to be an Apple take (and expansion/new direction) on the netbook, but this is really not comparable at all for many. Even the web is more limited in that you can run 0 flash content. Don't get me wrong, it has its place like Chris is talking about using one for, but this is not the students best friend by any means (a student would need to have another computer to back this up and $500 + another machine is not a good price for most students). I can see already how this is going to be compared to netbooks and it really should not be, it is not a desktop OS, it is not a full computer, and it really is its own segment right now. The interesting thing will be where the HP Slate comes in as far as pricing as it really is a much more powerful device running a full OS.

The iPad is closest to an internet tablet, but with the future of having many more mobile apps put onto it.


----------



## Grentz

davemayo said:


> Boy Genius Report is speculating that there could be an updated OS version on the iPad when it is launched that might include multi-tasking.
> 
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/01/27/is-the-apple-ipad-os-unfinished/


That would help a lot, might bring it back into my consideration.

At this point Apple really did nothing but take the current OS and input a higher native resolution. Heck even the program icons are not sized correctly and limited to that huge spacing as some editors have reported. They really just scaled up the current OS and added nothing too amazing.

For the record I might sound a bit pissy because I am disappointed. I thought I finally had my mobile device. Crunchpad got killed, and now this darn thing without even flash is just annoying me.


----------



## cygnusloop

Grentz said:


> ... but this is not the students best friend by any means (a student would need to have another computer to back this up and $500 + another machine is not a good price for most students). I can see already how this is going to be compared to netbooks and it really should not be, it is not a desktop OS, it is not a full computer, and it really is its own segment right now. The interesting thing will be where the HP Slate comes in as far as pricing as it really is a much more powerful device running a full OS.
> 
> The iPad is closest to an internet tablet, but with the future of having many more mobile apps put onto it.


I guess I just disagree about where information technology is headed. No need for a backup. Nothing important is trusted to storage on the local device. Nor do I see the need (in the future) for another computer. Devices running a full OS will be less and less necessary. And, in my experience students don't "write papers" anymore, they create presentations. Yes, the standard keyboard has it's place, but not necessarily in the classroom.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you buy into Ellison's cloud, or Uncle Bill's model.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this particular device is the end all, be all. I do, however, think it is a good indicator of where things are going.


----------



## Grentz

I am a student, and I can say that is dead wrong on the student perspective. Not trying to argue, just saying how it is. 

Your take on the cloud computing could be true though, for the general population. The issue still comes in with things that are larger that for the foreseeable future will still need local resources and usage. The thing is that by closing out all of your local resources you are just limiting yourself especially now. A device like this is not the wave of the future to replace everyone's laptops and mobile gear, it is just way too locked down.

Tablet PCs, whether you love or hate MS, were much more futuristic than this. All Apple did that I can see so far was put the iPod touch in a device with a bigger screen and faster processor.


----------



## RunnerFL

Grentz said:


> All Apple did that I can see so far was put the iPod touch in a device with a bigger screen and faster processor.


Can your iPod Touch run iWork? The iPad can...

Just an example... The iPad is a little bit more than just a bigger iPod Touch.


----------



## Grentz

RunnerFL said:


> Can your iPod Touch run iWork? The iPad can...
> 
> Just an example... The iPad is a little bit more than just a bigger iPod Touch.


Ok, I saw that as well. But, what do I do with the files? Where do they get saved (I am sure everyone will say cloud...but still)? How can I print them without transferring them to another computer? It still is extremely dependent on the machines around it.

I have been on a quest for the ultimate tablet mini machine for many many years and seen many a design, and I am telling you now this thing is far from a revolution or show stopper. It is a cool device, packaged with the backing of the App Store which will deliver a wide assortment of neat touch apps and things made just for it, but it still is in the iPod/iPhone/iPad zone. The fact that it still is dependent of iTunes of all programs is enough proof of that.

There is going to be a big new push of slate Tablet PCs this year from the rumors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, and others are already at work on designs supposedly), and they will all be running a full Win 7 OS that can do everything a full desktop or laptop can do. Depending on the price points, that is going to be a tough competition for the iPad (which originally I thought was going to be very competitive with these type of devices and blow them out of the water with an awesome Apple design).

This is more what I thought they would be going for:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/halerons-ilet-10-inch-tablet-starts-cheap-gets-expensive-ship/

But with their own Apple take that would make it be more sleek and such obviously.


----------



## harsh

Grentz said:


> That would help a lot, might bring it back into my consideration.


Updating the O/S does nothing to address the apparent hardware deficiencies.

Connectivity and interoperability with real computer stuff seems to be absent.

How about some Bluetooth or USB support for grabbing images from cameras, printing stuff or flash drives?

I didn't expect to need a full-blown computer to "deposit" files on the device via a SMB share.

It should be interesting to see how the installation of a data modem impacts the ergonomics of the iPad.


----------



## Grentz

I would think that the 3G modem would be fully integrated. I bet there is a little space for it where they just either click it in or don't.


----------



## RunnerFL

Grentz said:


> Ok, I saw that as well. But, what do I do with the files? Where do they get saved (I am sure everyone will say cloud...but still)? How can I print them without transferring them to another computer? It still is extremely dependent on the machines around it.


For all we know, and I haven't seen any info either way on this, there will be a way to setup a printer so you can print via wi-fi, or maybe even an app. And there are apps now that allow you to transfer files to/from an iPhone. You can also transfer files to/from an iPhone while docked so I see no reason why you couldn't with the iPad.



Grentz said:


> I have been on a quest for the ultimate tablet mini machine for many many years and seen many a design, and I am telling you now this thing is far from a revolution or show stopper.


Show stopper? No, not really. Great way for me to get a netbook and "Nook" at the same time for less? Absolutely!



Grentz said:


> There is going to be a big new push of slate Tablet PCs this year from the rumors (HP, Dell, Lenovo, and others are already at work on designs supposedly), and they will all be running a full Win 7 OS that can do everything a full desktop or laptop can do. Depending on the price points, that is going to be a tough competition for the iPad (which originally I thought was going to be very competitive with these type of devices and blow them out of the water with an awesome Apple design).


I honestly don't see them being in the same ballpark pricewise as the iPad. They'll be in the upper hundreds to over a thousand dollars.


----------



## RunnerFL

harsh said:


> How about some Bluetooth or USB support for grabbing images from cameras, printing stuff or flash drives?


Bluetooth support is there. And there is already an adapter you can use to hookup an SD card or even a camera to transfer files.


----------



## RunnerFL

Grentz said:


> I would think that the 3G modem would be fully integrated. I bet there is a little space for it where they just either click it in or don't.


If you go to apple.com and view the pics of the "Wifi" and "Wifi+3G" versions you'll see there is a bit of a hardware difference when it comes to the back of the unit. What that difference is, who knows...


----------



## houskamp

Lets see if I got all this...
1 no flash-no utube
2 no card reader for pics
3 no usb 
4 no real storage for pics/music (can it play MP3s?)
5 no way to print stuff you type on it or web pages


----------



## Grentz

RunnerFL, I am not saying it is not a cool device. Heck I might still want to own one if the web surfing is good enough.

All I am saying is that it is not a netbook killer and is not some revolution for the future of computing in general. Both of those are pretty clear to me and I have experienced a lot of devices around this segment.

For the right person, that knows its strengths and limits, it could be an excellent fit.


----------



## BubblePuppy

houskamp said:


> Lets see if I got all this...
> 1 no flash-no utube
> 2 no card reader for pics
> 3 no usb
> 4 no real storage for pics/music (can it play MP3s?)
> 5 *no way to print stuff you type on it or web pages*




If it has wifi then why couldn't it send print files to a wifi enabled printer? My laptop can do that.


----------



## Grentz

BubblePuppy said:


> [/B]
> 
> If it has wifi then why couldn't it send print files to a wifi enabled printer? My laptop can do that.


Have to have the drivers/support for it.


----------



## dennisj00

There are a couple of 'agendas' with the iPad and even the Touch . . . one is eBooks. The Touch/ iPhone have Kindle reader to stake a claim in that market. There own line of eBook publication will be huge. And it's positioned to make a real impact in the current demise of the publishing industry.

Second is another stream of Apps through iTunes . . .not only capitalizing on the current 140,000+ apps, it will be again, huge!

And Third, is the iTunes stream of $$ for music and video. . . probably bigger than huge!

And I must say, iTunes is the worst user interface for a major piece of software that I've ever seen. Directv2PC is kludgey but iTunes doesn't make sense.


----------



## cygnusloop

Grentz said:


> I am a student, and I can say that is dead wrong on the student perspective. Not trying to argue, just saying how it is.


And I finished a second degree in '05 and taught classes among other things at major University most of the time since then. So, I guess we just have to agree to disagree on that. Different Universities, different practices.

I can tell you that the University of Colorado has spent a great deal of money over the last decade to enable the digital classroom. Instructors are required to maintain class websites (in some departments). Whiteboards are digitally captured and available for download. All 1000 and 2000 level Physics classes have all their problem sets as an interactive server-based application. They also use an interactive in-class system to support lecture (all students are required to purchase a remote control device that allows them to answer in-class questions in real-time).

So, "how it is" is open for debate, IMO.

That said, it's not the iPad, per se, that I am excited about, it's what it portends.


----------



## dpeters11

Grentz said:


> Have to have the drivers/support for it.


Not really. There's an app for that 

Nothing perfect, but there are at least options.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352101,00.asp

Though most require a computer, not direct printing.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I'm surprised that so many people are surprised that it is largely a bigger iPod Touch.

I pretty much thought that would be what it would be...

I admit, though, that I'm surprised they didn't keep the video camera like the iPhone 3GS has. That seems like a missing feature that people will ask about.

I'm not running flailing my arms to buy one... but it seems like it is what it is, and should be a successful unit for those people who buy it for what it is intended to be.

It's not intended, clearly, to be a laptop/netbook killer... but rather an all-in-one to cover a few things like the iPod Touch + Kindle eBook. Once more apps are out that fully utilize the better graphics, there is some good potential for the iPad (though I might have liked a different name).

I also wouldn't be surprised to find some future cool ways to use the iPad as an input device for an iMac... AND I already was thinking of a cool way to use an iPhone as an input device to an iPad... Think how you could use an iPhone as the game controller for a game running on the iPad. People who buy multiple "i" devices from Apple could be rewarded with some unique and neat interactivity.


----------



## dpeters11

Actually, I think the biggest positive is the battery life. 10 hours straight video playback? That's very good. Heck, the 30 days standby is better than the Kindle.


----------



## Grentz

cygnusloop said:


> And I finished a second degree in '05 and taught classes among other things at major University most of the time since then. So, I guess we just have to agree to disagree on that. Different Universities, different practices.
> 
> I can tell you that the University of Colorado has spent a great deal of money over the last decade to enable the digital classroom. Instructors are required to maintain class websites (in some departments). Whiteboards are digitally captured and available for download. All 1000 and 2000 level Physics classes have all their problem sets as an interactive server-based application. They also use an interactive in-class system to support lecture (all students are required to purchase a remote control device that allows them to answer in-class questions in real-time).
> 
> So, "how it is" is open for debate, IMO.
> 
> That said, it's not the iPad, per se, that I am excited about, it's what it portends.


It portends Tablet PCs to be perfectly honest. Something we have had for years. Maybe not as sleek as this form factor, but like I said earlier they are working on sleeker Tablet PCs that would honestly be a lot better for a student as it could be their only device.

I guess I was expecting a OSX Tablet PC, which is why I am so crushed in many ways.



dpeters11 said:


> Not really. There's an app for that
> 
> Nothing perfect, but there are at least options.
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352101,00.asp
> 
> Though most require a computer, not direct printing.


I said you have to have support/drivers...that is what you posted. So what I said still stands true. 



Stewart Vernon said:


> I'm not running flailing my arms to buy one... but it seems like it is what it is, and should be a successful unit for those people who buy it for what it is intended to be.
> 
> *It's not intended, clearly, to be a laptop/netbook killer*... but rather an all-in-one to cover a few things like the iPod Touch + Kindle eBook. Once more apps are out that fully utilize the better graphics, there is some good potential for the iPad (though I might have liked a different name).
> 
> I also wouldn't be surprised to find some future cool ways to use the iPad as an input device for an iMac... AND I already was thinking of a cool way to use an iPhone as an input device to an iPad... Think how you could use an iPhone as the game controller for a game running on the iPad. People who buy multiple "i" devices from Apple could be rewarded with some unique and neat interactivity.


I agree with all you are saying and it is what I am trying to get across in a sense. Everyone is comparing this thing to netbooks and laptops, yet it is not close at all to being able to function in the same way. But for its niche, it could be great for some people.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Earlier today, before going out for some errands, I was reading on macrumors as the event was happening... and I was surprised at the surprised reactions from some who seemed to be expecting something much different.

I can definitely see wanting more... but expecting? I think the only real disappointment for me is the lack of camera. The iPad is actually cheaper than I thought (I voted $699 for entry-level model)... so that was a pleasant surprise that makes it almost tempting.

I'm an oddball in some ways, though, because I didn't really want a laptop... so this is actually something more exciting to me than if it had tried to be a more functional laptop replacement.


----------



## Grentz

Well the rumors for a long time (not necessarily recent rumors) have been a full tablet of sorts ala Modbook but more refined. 

I think a lot of us wanted to believe that Apple still had us in mind with this and the fact that this had supposedly been under design for years and years supported those ideas a bit more.

I am happy about the price as well, but there is no doubt this thing should not have taken/did not take years and years of design to come up with. The processor is about the only unique thing, but still should not have been years of design to come up with.


----------



## cygnusloop

Grentz said:


> Everyone is comparing this thing to netbooks and laptops, yet it is not close at all to being able to function in the same way. But for its niche, it could be great for some people.


I agree that it's not a netbook, nor laptop (whatever the real difference is there, and for what it's worth, Jobs spent the first part of his presentation comparing it to a netbook).

I'm just of the opinion that the general purpose PC or laptop is a dying breed. And, what's to come is going to be based on an architecture that makes the OS heavy, processor heavy, expensive computer obsolete. Well not obsolete, but a more specialized kind of device. As the iPad is really a specialized kind of device, as is the iPhone, the Playstation, the network enabled display or AVR, and lest I forget where I am posting, the DVR.

I wouldn't argue that the iPad or the like is the only device that anyone (student or otherwise) will have, but that it or something like it will take over those tasks for which it is particularly well suited. I am of the further opinion that education is one area in which the iPad or like device can shine.

P.S. I really enjoy this discussion. We are all, in a way, trying to peer into the future. The best it will ever be is blurry.


----------



## Grentz

What you really are describing is embedded closed systems. Which exist a lot in the corporate and big business world but not so much in consumers grasp. The main reason being that most are tailored and customized to specific needs and usages without much or any flexibility to the end user. (sound familiar?)

I get what you are saying, I just don't see the real advantage of it in many cases vs. having an actual full computer. What you are describing is the reverse process in many ways of what we have been trying to obtain with all in one devices (computers) which can do so many things for us and that we customize ourselves to do those things. Think about how a computer can do so much depending on how we set it up, even with just Windows or OSX you can access entertainment, work, communication, news, etc. and any mixture of those. Yet no two people seem to set it up in the same way as everyone has their own needs and desires.

Personally I feel the future is refinement of software and features on computers as they are now which to many consumers are a cluster mess of things. We see this happening already with the new direction Vista/Win7 are taking with many features and the way Apple is taking things like Automator/Time Machine/iLife suite. Computers (for the most part) are solid hardware wise and solid in what they can do, the issue is software to make them come together as a seamless and easy to use platform for the consumer. Sadly the idea in many devs mind was to push as much advertising and bloat out there to attract attention, but as we are seeing now with companies like Google, simplicity is being more and more appreciated by the general public. Which in the end is the deciding and motivating factor.

The fact and reason why computers in their raw form (Laptops and Desktops) continue to sell so well is that they are so adaptable to all the uses one could have for them. Amazing when you consider most use either Windows or OSX, just 2 main pieces of software that are so adaptable and customizable to fit into everyone's needs and lives.


----------



## cygnusloop

^^
All very good points.



Grentz said:


> I get what you are saying, I just don't see the real advantage of it in many cases vs. having an actual full computer.


The one key advantage, in my mind, is simply cost. I see a future with multiple, simple, cheap, specialized devices.

Most likely, that which will define IT for the next couple of decades is something we have yet to imagine. And, to me, that the best and most exciting reason to stay tuned.

:goodjob:


----------



## Grentz

That would be an advantage if someone could bring the costs down. 

I think netbooks had a good run at that though, I mean for <$300 you can get a machine that will work for many peoples needs. There also are full laptops that are sub $500 and quite amazing at how much power you get.

Most seem to not remember the days 5, 10, or even 15 years ago and how much technology was then for how little you got. $2k+ for a PC used to be the norm. This is getting into another topic, but frankly it is part of the problem. A lot of the furthering of computer technology has been hit hard by the fact that most are not willing to pay over $1k for computers anymore and all expect everything cheap cheap cheap! It is not good for progressing technology by any means. You would be amazed the difference in sales between even just $999 and $1099. That $1k point is a huge barrier in the computer industry now ever since it got broken back when. This exact same thing has hit the TV industry very hard lately and it is why brands like Vizio have done so well.


----------



## ncxcstud

Grentz said:


> That would be an advantage if someone could bring the costs down.
> 
> I think netbooks had a good run at that though, I mean for <$300 you can get a machine that will work for many peoples needs. There also are full laptops that are sub $500 and quite amazing at how much power you get.
> 
> Most seem to not remember the days 5, 10, or even 15 years ago and how much technology was then for how little you got. *$2k+ for a PC used to be the norm. This is getting into another topic, but frankly it is part of the problem. A lot of the furthering of computer technology has been hit hard by the fact that most are not willing to pay over $1k for computers anymore and all expect everything cheap cheap cheap!* It is not good for progressing technology by any means. You would be amazed the difference in sales between even just $999 and $1099. That $1k point is a huge barrier in the computer industry now ever since it got broken back when. This exact same thing has hit the TV industry very hard lately and it is why brands like Vizio have done so well.


I agree with this, though it still amazes me how many people are willing to spend 1000+ on a MacBook when they can get a PC Laptop for around 500 that does the exact same thing. I'm amazed and awed at Apple's advertising power.

I agree with Grentz though, I want an all in one device/full computer. I'm still not confident in cloud computing. I'd rather my hard drive fail in my computer than have a server farm fail and lose all my papers and such. When it is 'my fault' I'm much more able to handle it, if it happens on someone else's watch, I think I'd get more upset because they 'should have prevented it.'

I think the two biggest proponents of making things 'simple' for the general public are Apple and Google, and so far (in my circles) both of their latest announcements have been received lukewarm at best... (Google Wave and now the iPad).

Also, I'm a 27 year-old student (with expendable cash) as well, so this product is essentially marketed to me and others in similar situations and apart from using it as a text book, I don't see much use for it. Also, I wish I could do more presentations than write papers (which cygnusloop alluded to in an earlier post).

Ugh...I've taken notes on PCs and with pen and paper, and for me, nothing beats pen and paper...I remember and recall what I write more easily when I physically write it out as opposed to typing it out. Heck, I'm a weird techie in that I still 'write out' rough drafts before typing them out, it is just how my brain works.

Though, I'm definitely 'negative' towards the iPad, it doesn't mean I don't want to play with it when it finally debuts in the Apple store


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I kind of like the idea of multiple specialized devices that can interconnect to provide additional services.

I'm not sure this will ever happen... but extending my thoughts on using an iPhone as an input to an iPad... I also would like to see the iPad used as an input to an iMac (like the Wacom tablet for example).

The cool thing here... is you can have standalone devices that can be used entirely on their own for a variety of features... then take any 2 or 3 of them together and you get entirely new and additional function.

I'm not sure if this is the future of computing... but I wouldn't mind if it were.

Also, IF it did become the way of the future... then the cost certainly would come down.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

ncxcstud said:


> I agree with this, though it still amazes me how many people are willing to spend 1000+ on a MacBook when they can get a PC Laptop for around 500 that does the exact same thing. I'm amazed and awed at Apple's advertising power.


It isn't that they do the same thing... It's the _way_ they do them. Use a Macbook for a week... You'll understand why people pay $1000+ for them.


----------



## cygnusloop

Stewart Vernon said:


> ...
> I'm not sure if this is the future of computing... but I wouldn't mind if it were.
> ...


You know, it's part of it. At least the concept is.

After getting a look at it, I'm starting to think about things you could do with one of these things around the house. I've gotta give it to Apple, you just want to curl up in bed with it.

At $499 (16G/wireless N) it would make a really slick home automation/entertainment control sytem, but more than a control sytem. It's something that would be on the beside when you put it down after reading the latest Carl Hiaasen novel until you fell asleep. After it wakes you up at the agreed upon time, it will put some appropriate music on the sweet B&W in-ceiling speakers in your bedroom until you get it together enough to get to the shower. (It's able to do this because you have some combination of these really cool gadgets from Sonos. And yes, there is an app for that.)

Once you're downstairs, you set it on it's stand in the kitchen, and because you also have one of these gizmos, you tap, and you're watching the local news while you make breakfast. (I'm assuming it already started the coffee once it knew you were up. ) Of course, you quickly remember that the local news sucks, and sit down to eat and read the increasingly mis-named "paper". If you happen to live there, or are just an Apple owning snob you can even read the New York Times (I kid, I kid). I saw Steve Jobs do it today. Tap again, and start some music in the kitchen. (Because once you got the Sonos system and saw how cool it was in the bedroom, you got another node for the kitchen.)

You hear a noise outside, you tap and see (via the Wi-Fi lipstick camera on the front porch) that it was just the UPS guy dropping off a package. Oh, you also remembered that you ran out of Belgian Waffle mix when you were making breakfast, so you zap that to the grocery list (which is of course on the iPhone). Which reminds you that you need coffee creamer, too.

You hear the baby cry, but when you tap to view the baby monitor, you see your wife is already in there getting her up. But, it reminds you that you need to order diapers from Diapers.com (yes, there is such a thing, and it's the only way to go).

You figure it's time to wake up the boy, so you start some music of your choice in his room. (Yes, you put a Sonos node in there too, but no way you sprang for the sweet B&W's.) When that doesn't work, tap, and you can turn his lights on, open his east facing curtains, or anything else you care to automate. 

Once he comes down to the kitchen, you put it back on the stand for him to watch whatever it is that he watches off the DVR or HTPC, because that is the only way you can get him to sit still long enough to eat a damn bowl of cereal.

Hey, that's a lot of stuff, and it's not even 8am yet. Granted, you can do all of this stuff with your iPhone or Touch, but the large format screen seems great for around the house. Plus, how nice is it to have a common interface on your pocket sized version.


----------



## TBlazer07

BubblePuppy said:


> ]
> 
> *The Name iPad
> Get ready for Maxi pad jokes, and lots of 'em!*
> :lol:


Speaking of the data plans:
$15 dollars for the light data months and $30 for the heavy data months.


----------



## Grentz

cygnusloop said:


> You know, it's part of it. At least the concept is.
> 
> After getting a look at it, I'm starting to think about things you could do with one of these things around the house. I've gotta give it to Apple, you just want to curl up in bed with it.
> 
> At $499 (16G/wireless N) it would make a really slick home automation/entertainment control sytem, but more than a control sytem. It's something that would be on the beside when you put it down after reading the latest Carl Hiaasen novel until you fell asleep. After it wakes you up at the agreed upon time, it will put some appropriate music on the sweet B&W in-ceiling speakers in your bedroom until you get it together enough to get to the shower. (It's able to do this because you have some combination of these really cool gadgets from Sonos. And yes, there is an app for that.)
> 
> Once you're downstairs, you set it on it's stand in the kitchen, and because you also have one of these gizmos, you tap, and you're watching the local news while you make breakfast. (I'm assuming it already started the coffee once it knew you were up. ) Of course, you quickly remember that the local news sucks, and sit down to eat and read the increasingly mis-named "paper". If you happen to live there, or are just an Apple owning snob you can even read the New York Times (I kid, I kid). I saw Steve Jobs do it today. Tap again, and start some music in the kitchen. (Because once you got the Sonos system and saw how cool it was in the bedroom, you got another node for the kitchen.)
> 
> You hear a noise outside, you tap and see (via the Wi-Fi lipstick camera on the front porch) that it was just the UPS guy dropping off a package. Oh, you also remembered that you ran out of Belgian Waffle mix when you were making breakfast, so you zap that to the grocery list (which is of course on the iPhone). Which reminds you that you need coffee creamer, too.
> 
> You hear the baby cry, but when you tap to view the baby monitor, you see your wife is already in there getting her up. But, it reminds you that you need to order diapers from Diapers.com (yes, there is such a thing, and it's the only way to go).
> 
> You figure it's time to wake up the boy, so you start some music of your choice in his room. (Yes, you put a Sonos node in there too, but no way you sprang for the sweet B&W's.) When that doesn't work, tap, and you can turn his lights on, open his east facing curtains, or anything else you care to automate.
> 
> Once he comes down to the kitchen, you put it back on the stand for him to watch whatever it is that he watches off the DVR or HTPC, because that is the only way you can get him to sit still long enough to eat a damn bowl of cereal.
> 
> Hey, that's a lot of stuff, and it's not even 8am yet. Granted, you can do all of this stuff with your iPhone or Touch, but the large format screen seems great for around the house. Plus, how nice is it to have a common interface on your pocket sized version.


The funny thing is that there are some sweet tablet remotes for doing this already. They are more expensive, but the support hardware surrounding it is expensive as well and better integrated than just an app.

Still cool though and the iPad is sleeker than any of those remotes as of right now.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I'm also wondering/hoping AT&T will offer that half-price limited data plan to iPhone customers. I know I mostly use WiFi and only use 3G/Edge when I absolutely have to... and there are more and more free WiFi hotspots popping up every day. Heck, McDonald's free WiFi alone covers a lot of territory!

Also snuck in under the radar... the Apple Web site says the iPad has b/g/N WiFi. That's cool, as the iPhone did not have "N" WiFi.

Another thing I saw by reading the Apple site... there are slightly more differences in the 3G vs non-3G model. For instance, only the 3G model iPad has GPS.


----------



## Grentz

Well it does not have real GPS, it uses assisted GPS which is why it only comes with the 3G model (it uses 3G and Wifi to get a position, not GPS sats).


----------



## ncxcstud

Grentz said:


> Well it does not have real GPS, it uses assisted GPS which is why it only comes with the 3G model (it uses 3G and Wifi to get a position, not GPS sats).


Is that the same thing that the iPod touch uses to find your 'location'? And when you move your router to a new city, it still thinks you're back in South Carolina? What is it called? Skyhook or something like that?

Or does the iPhone/3G/3GS/iPad 3G a different system?


----------



## Grentz

ncxcstud said:


> Is that the same thing that the iPod touch uses to find your 'location'? And when you move your router to a new city, it still thinks you're back in South Carolina? What is it called? Skyhook or something like that?
> 
> Or does the iPhone/3G/3GS/iPad 3G a different system?


It is that plus cell site using the 3G, so it is a bit better. But still far from an actual GPS.

Wifi location sensing is BS IMO, it works in so few places and usually only large cities with lots of known hotspots. 3G sensing is better though since it can use cell towers.


----------



## trdrjeff

I think this will end up being as successful as the Newton


----------



## Steve

trdrjeff said:


> I think this will end up being as successful as the Newton


I have a Newton wrapped up somewhere in my basement! I'm hoping some day it will become a collector's item. :lol:


----------



## dpeters11

Stewart Vernon said:


> I'm also wondering/hoping AT&T will offer that half-price limited data plan to iPhone customers. I know I mostly use WiFi and only use 3G/Edge when I absolutely have to... and there are more and more free WiFi hotspots popping up every day. Heck, McDonald's free WiFi alone covers a lot of territory!
> 
> Also snuck in under the radar... the Apple Web site says the iPad has b/g/N WiFi. That's cool, as the iPhone did not have "N" WiFi.
> 
> Another thing I saw by reading the Apple site... there are slightly more differences in the 3G vs non-3G model. For instance, only the 3G model iPad has GPS.


N was mentioned at the event, it was on the slides they showed.

The 3GS doesn't have N, but the latest Touch could. It has the hardware, just not the software. Apple could basically turn it on with an OS update (for the low price of $5.)


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

This is pretty funny. Wired posted this on Twitter. Read the reactions of people on the MacRumors forum when the iPod was announced in 2001. At least read the first page... You'll get the idea...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500


----------



## Galley

The MLB.com app looks amazing! Everyone with an MLB.TV subscription can watch games for free on the iPhone and iPad.


----------



## tcusta00

Greg Alsobrook said:


> This is pretty funny. Wired posted this on Twitter. Read the reactions of people on the MacRumors forum when the iPod was announced in 2001. At least read the first page... You'll get the idea...
> 
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500


That's pretty funny. ANOTHER mp3 player?? :lol:


----------



## Grentz

Greg Alsobrook said:


> This is pretty funny. Wired posted this on Twitter. Read the reactions of people on the MacRumors forum when the iPod was announced in 2001. At least read the first page... You'll get the idea...
> 
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500


To be fair the first ipod generations did not take off much. Thanks also to them being stupid and limiting to Mac only for the first Gen and sticking with firewire for a long time. Plus they were expensive, very expensive.

The 1G/2G iPod was never that great, I had a few friends and family with them at the time and there were better players IMO at the time. The Mini and 4G really killed the competition of the time though and that is when the iPod really took hold of everything IMO.


----------



## ncxcstud

Greg Alsobrook said:


> It isn't that they do the same thing... It's the _way_ they do them. Use a Macbook for a week... You'll understand why people pay $1000+ for them.


I used a Mac every day in college. I still prefer a PC and Windows . Their use for me, doesn't justify spending over 1K to almost 2.5K for a laptop.

My $500.00 laptop works great and I don't have to worry about compatibility issues or using virtual machine software at all.


----------



## Chris Blount

Greg Alsobrook said:


> This is pretty funny. Wired posted this on Twitter. Read the reactions of people on the MacRumors forum when the iPod was announced in 2001. At least read the first page... You'll get the idea...
> 
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500


That really is very funny to read. Sometimes I think that people who don't understand or can't afford Apple products tend to knock everything Apple does.

I think the iPad is the first generation of products that will completely replace printed commercial media. I would bet that thanks to the launch of this product (and the Kindle), 10 years from now you will be hard pressed to find magazines, newspapers and some books in paper format.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> [...] I think the iPad is the first generation of products that will completely replace printed commercial media. I would bet that thanks to the launch of this product (and the Kindle), 10 years from now you will be hard pressed to find magazines, newspapers and some books in paper format.


Actually, Sony can arguably go down in history as the pioneer of the concept, much like they pioneered the concept of portable, personal music players back in the 1979.


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> Actually, Sony can arguably go down in history as the pioneer of the concept, much like they pioneered the concept of portable, personal music players back in the 1979.


Fair enough but my point is that Apple has the knack of making concepts markeatable to the point of mass adoption.


----------



## dpeters11

Grentz said:


> To be fair the first ipod generations did not take off much. Thanks also to them being stupid and limiting to Mac only for the first Gen and sticking with firewire for a long time. Plus they were expensive, very expensive.
> 
> The 1G/2G iPod was never that great, I had a few friends and family with them at the time and there were better players IMO at the time. The Mini and 4G really killed the competition of the time though and that is when the iPod really took hold of everything IMO.


I'd actually forgotten about all that, the Mac only stuff and such. The problem was that it would have been pretty much impossible to see from the first iPods where it would end up. I'm not interested in iPad 1.0, but I'm willing to revisit it after a few generations.

The web experience won't be that great until either 1. it supports flash, or 2. sites stop using flash, and go with something else, like HTML5 etc. I would not be upset if a plugin were no longer needed.


----------



## Nick

Mass adoption? Somehow that reminds me of "Brangelina". 

What's that??? They are? :eek2:

Never mind...back to your regularly scheduled topic!


----------



## dennisj00

As a long time Apple resistor but iPhone / Touch adopter, I'm interested in the iPad and would be very interested if they had included multi-tasking and a cam. Possibly V2 or iPad+?

I do agree they're well positioned for the demise of print media.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Dumb question..

I see a lot about disappointment in no multi-tasking with the iPad, and the iPhone as well.

So the question is... just what kinds of multi-tasking are people wanting to do on these devices?

I've had my iPhone for nearly a year now... and I can't think of a time when I needed to run more than one app at the same time.


----------



## Grentz

Stewart Vernon said:


> Dumb question..
> 
> I see a lot about disappointment in no multi-tasking with the iPad, and the iPhone as well.
> 
> So the question is... just what kinds of multi-tasking are people wanting to do on these devices?
> 
> I've had my iPhone for nearly a year now... and I can't think of a time when I needed to run more than one app at the same time.


Music in the background. Switching between a web browser and iWork document, leaving apps open so they dont completely restart when you switch to something else for a second, etc.


----------



## harsh

As Grentz suggests, sometimes you just want to check on something else while you're deep into something (like reading a page-turner). Whether you need to check your schedule or confirm an address. Maybe even checking how far past bedtime it is getting to be.

Some of these things could be accomplished using a simple task switcher, but being able to play background music requires something considerably more sophisticated.


----------



## Grentz

harsh said:


> As Grentz suggests, sometimes you just want to check on something else while you're deep into something (like reading a page-turner). Whether you need to check your schedule or confirm an address. Maybe even checking how far past bedtime it is getting to be.
> 
> Some of these things could be accomplished using a simple task switcher, but being able to play background music requires something considerably more sophisticated.


The funny thing is that the tech is already there as Apple uses it with their own stuff at times. It just needs to be opened up more to allow the devs to use it.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I guess I just don't get the need for multi-tasking like that on a small portable device.

I wouldn't knock it if they enabled multi-tasking... but I don't see slamming it for not allowing. I have other computers that I use when I need to multi-task.


----------



## LarryFlowers

Read the Fine Print..

There's a good reason you can't pre-order an iPad yet... small thing.. it's not legal!

The FCC approvals for the device are not in place.

"This device has not yet been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained."

Read More http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010...der-the-ipad-it-isnt-legal-yet/#ixzz0e8nFvGnl


----------



## dennisj00

I can live with the iPhone or Touch not multi-tasking, but the Pad really needs it to be the laptop / netbook killer. Not only do I have many, many multiple tabs in my browser(s) at the same time, I want the ability to run ANYTHING in the background. . . music, video, an open doc, anything!


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Grentz said:


> Music in the background. Switching between a web browser and iWork document, leaving apps open so they dont completely restart when you switch to something else for a second, etc.


Music in the background works on the iPhone, as long as the source is the iPod app. I assume the same will be true on the iPad. It would be nice if it could be Pandora as well though. Also, with push notifications for apps such as AIM, the need to have them run in the background on the iPhone is pretty nonexsistent. The iPad however is a different story.


----------



## jsmuga

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Music in the background works on the iPhone, as long as the source is the iPod app. I assume the same will be true on the iPad. It would be nice if it could be Pandora as well though. Also, with push notifications for apps such as AIM, the need to have them run in the background on the iPhone is pretty nonexsistent. The iPad however is a different story.


The rumors are that the SW 4.0 release will allow apps to run in the background.


----------



## Lee L

Stewart Vernon said:


> I guess I just don't get the need for multi-tasking like that on a small portable device.
> 
> I wouldn't knock it if they enabled multi-tasking... but I don't see slamming it for not allowing. I have other computers that I use when I need to multi-task.


I think the main thing people really want is stuff like Pandora in the background. Given the crappy battery life the iPhone has already, anything more would be suicidal for actually using the thing.


----------



## Galley

Regarding battery life:


> Mossberg also inquired about battery life on the iPad, and Jobs revealed the device will offer "140-something hours" of continuous music playback with the screen off, or nearly six days.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

I'm excited by the rumors of it possibly having a camera. My thought is that maybe it has something to do with the FCC approval they have yet to receive. Maybe the camera was going to be a possible rejection point... so they went ahead and just left it out for now... and if they have to ditch it at the last minute, no harm... or if they get to keep it, even better... Another selling point.

http://www.cultofmac.com/did-steve-...m_campaign=Feed:+cultofmac/bFow+(Cult+of+Mac)

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...how_slot_for_forward_facing_video_camera.html

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/02/apple-ipad-rumor-roundup-abraham-zapruder-edition/


----------



## Chris Blount

Apple started accepting pre-orders today. I got my iPad Wifi + 3G all lined up. Can't wait until the end of April.


----------



## HDJulie

Please let us know when you've got it & what your impressions are. I'm particularly interested in the ergonomics of it -- how easy is it to hold & use.


----------



## P Smith

And how often you should recharge it in real life ?


----------



## cool_beans00

Yup reserved mine! the cheapest one of course. I'm excited


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I'm going to wait for the Apple store to actually get them in store and out for demos... so I can play with one myself to see how badly I might want one then.


----------



## cool_beans00

Stewart Vernon said:


> I'm going to wait for the Apple store to actually get them in store and out for demos... so I can play with one myself to see how badly I might want one then.


that's what i wanted to do. but you can reserve one and not have to pay until you pick it up. and if you never pick it up, it just get sold someone else. no risk!


----------



## Chris Blount

cool_beans00 said:


> that's what i wanted to do. but you can reserve one and not have to pay until you pick it up. and if you never pick it up, it just get sold someone else. no risk!


That's my philosophy. I am gambling on the fact that when release day comes, there will be limited supply. At least this way I have a good chance of getting one. If I don't like it, I can always return it.

I hate going into the Apple store and wanting to buy something only to find out they won't have them for 3 weeks!


----------



## Grentz

There are a LOT of tablets coming out this year. I am going to have to wait and see what the competition comes up with before jumping on something like the iPad.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

My budget is likely to be limited... and while I think I want an iPad... I might also want to wait and see if there is a new iPhone this year. I didn't get a 3GS model last June... so I might want a new iPhone this year instead of an iPad.


----------



## dennisj00

Wifey ordered a wifi 64g model today. . .supposed to be delivered to the house 4/03. .


----------



## phrelin

dennisj00 said:


> Wifey ordered a wifi 64g model today. . .supposed to be delivered to the house 4/03. .


+1 although I don't know about that delivery date.

For most of our 30 years of computer ownership, we tended to try some new things that seemed to have possibilities in our world. Sometimes the magic worked, sometimes it didn't. I bought my wife the original Sony Reader which, though it was clever, never was a comfortable replacement for paperbacks. We did not do the most recent update.

And though we have a busy Amazon account, the initial Kindle just didn't seem much better and 3G with Sprint was an offense to my sensibilities. (Go to the Sprint coverage map and plug in my zip code - 95490 - and you'll see why. What is offensive about Amazon's choice is that Sprint cherry-picks coverage and always has - no cell phone coverage close by, much less 3G. Amazon and Sprint are recovering that "no monthly fee" 3G capability cost somehow.)

Maybe the iPad will not become the Reader replacement plus more we will be raving about, but its display is the same diagonal size as a Kindle DX and it is a multipurpose microcomputer in the same price range. We didn't have to pay for a 3G option (nobody has 3G within 20 miles of our house).

It will be our first Apple product. And it appears that it will effectively replace those Tandy TRS-80 Model 100's from the early 1980's.










​


----------



## P Smith

As I'm aware Kindle-2/DX can support EVDO (3G) and 1xRTT (2G) connections.


----------



## Guest

I like the HP Slate because it has Windows 7 with Flash.


----------



## Karen

dennisj00 said:


> Wifey ordered a wifi 64g model today. . .supposed to be delivered to the house 4/03. .


Did wifey order one of these too?

http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=41296440


----------



## phrelin

CraigerCSM said:


> I like the HP Slate because it has Windows 7 with Flash.


How's that Adobe Flash Player on your Internet Explorer 64-bit version on your nifty new Windows 7 computer? Oh that's right, you can't use the IE 64-bit version because Adobe apparently missed the 64-bit evolution on my four 64-bit HP Windows 7 computers. Glad HP is touting Flash for what is still vaporware while they are unable to provide it on the principle browser on all their new computers. Good partnering there HP guys.

We are significant users of HP products in our home with four desktops (two with Win 7) and three notebooks (two with Win 7) available (yeah, for two retired people, it is conspicuous consumption).

But we decided on the iPad (see above) partly because of the Flash issue.

I have to accept the fact that Adobe owns the uniform standard for document archival software. Partly because they have made the Reader available for free and partly because you can buy Adobe 9 Professional for under $150 per computer and partly most business software today has an Adobe "printer" function I can live with that.

But while the Flash interface for browsers is free, Flash Pro CS4 is over $400 per computer. That's just too much for a "standards" application. I agree with this reviewer who in discussing the two offering's differences noted:


> As a platform for multimedia content on the Web, Flash has definitely served a purpose and it's hard to argue with how ubiquitous Flash is on the Web. Just try to browse the Web without installing a Flash plugin and you will see just how much Web sites rely on the Adobe technology.
> 
> However, that is not necessarily a good thing. HTML5 is establishing itself as a vendor-agnostic standard capable of delivering much the same experience users have come to expect from Flash. Web content based on a free Web standard makes much more sense than multimedia content requiring proprietary software to create it, and requiring users to install a proprietary plugin to be able to interact with it.


We don't have to use the iPad for work nor would we be prevented from accessing a site's content because we're locked into the Apple mobile world. Even away from home, we will likely be only a short distance from one of our HP notebooks.

As an advocate for html, for mozilla based products and for java based products - in fact, everything that supports open source - I'm not overly thrilled with all things Apple because they are so proprietary. We don't and won't have an iPhone or an iPod.

But I thought the iPad will be interesting, it can replace our old Sony Reader, and it's an opportunity to poke the Adobe bear.


----------



## harsh

phrelin said:


> How's that Adobe Flash Player on your Internet Explorer 64-bit version on your nifty new Windows 7 computer?


Who offers a 64 bit tablet computer?

Once you've figured that out, who uses IE?


----------



## harsh

phrelin said:


> And it appears that it will effectively replace those Tandy TRS-80 Model 100's from the early 1980's.


Now there's a practical electronic notepad. The press absolutely loved those things.


----------



## phrelin

harsh said:


> Who offers a 64 bit tablet computer?
> 
> Once you've figured that out, who uses IE?


Nobody in their right mind uses IE, except apparently a lot of people other than me. My comment has to do with HP from whom I buy my computers now that I'm just too old or lazy to build them. When CraigerCSM said this...


CraigerCSM said:


> I like the HP Slate because it has Windows 7 with Flash.


...my reaction was having Windows 7 on what amounts to a whole new way of computing is irrelevant. And HP, which should know better, is selling "having Windows 7 is good because of Flash."

I've been processing in a Microsoft environment for 26 years because no truly viable alternative was consistently available for that full period given my business software requirements.

My hope is that maybe the iPad will ease the way to you saying 20 years from now something like...


harsh said:


> Now there's a practical electronic notepad. The press absolutely loved those things.


Of course it won't be the press, but then again we used our Model 100's for many business uses with ROM's to create spreadsheet and database files on the go, as well as text processing.

I have no idea whether the iPad will be the next big flop or the next true revolution in computing, but I'm curious and I'm getting too old to wait five years. And, God, I hope that revolution won't be taken away by a mundane Microsoft OS.


----------



## RunnerFL

dennisj00 said:


> Wifey ordered a wifi 64g model today. . .supposed to be delivered to the house 4/03. .


I ordered one as well, don't need 3G. Is it 4/3 yet???


----------



## redfiver

phrelin said:


> As an advocate for html, for mozilla based products and for java based products - in fact, everything that supports open source - I'm not overly thrilled with all things Apple because they are so proprietary. We don't and won't have an iPhone or an iPod.


I don't see how this is true, except for Apps, on the iPhone or iPad. They are not using proprietary applications for web browsing (Java or Flash). They are embracing the HTML5 standards. Sure, with Apps they have a closed environment and control what can be put on the devices and I won't argue that point, but will point out that it's a big reason no one has had a virus or malware on their iPhone (that wasn't jailbroken) primarily because no application is allowed access to the root system. Despite the grumblings of some developers, the App store has been highly successful for Apple and many many developers. It's also super easy to use which is what they're going for. The iPhone and iPod before it were about ease of use for the everyday consumer. People have long argued that the iPod was an inferior MP3 player because it didn't do A and it didn't do B... but it still won the race because it was simple and elegant.

And flash on my iPhone? Don't really miss it. Flash is the program that crashes my browser and/or computer more than any other program out there. Drives me crazy.


----------



## phrelin

Stuart Sweet said:


> Don't forget that you can get the Kindle app for an iPhone or laptop. There's your e-book reader.


Well, it took me while to understand this, Stuart. Guess I _am_ in my dotage and it took this Amazon unveils Kindle app for iPad for me to understand that on April 3 my wife is getting an Apple iKindle DX that can do other stuff and isn't in any way acknowledging the completely inaccessible-to-us Sprint 3G network.


----------



## dmurphy

phrelin said:


> Well, it took me while to understand this, Stuart. Guess I _am_ in my dotage and it took this Amazon unveils Kindle app for iPad for me to understand that on April 3 my wife is getting an Apple iKindle DX that can do other stuff and isn't in any way acknowledging the completely inaccessible-to-us Sprint 3G network.


Keep in mind that the "Global Wireless" Kindle (both the standard & DX models) are GSM-based using the AT&T notwork.

As for the Sprint model... to get a true coverage picture, you need to overlay the Verizon Wireless map on top of the Sprint one. Sprint has roaming agreements with VZW - anywhere Sprint doesn't have coverage, their devices roam onto the VZW network.


----------



## dennisj00

Received UPS shipping notice that it shipped yesterday from China.


----------



## Sparky Scott

I am and have been a mac user for quite some time. I think the ipad is very cool and interesting. I love my i touch ipod, and I love my imac i7. But, that said, I really don't see the niche for the size. It's sorta in between. With that said, I will probably still purchase one myself... I can't believe they sold out and long waiting list is so big.
My imac i7 was pre-ordered 2 1/2 ahead of sales and still waited on top of that... I wonder how long it will be on back order?


----------



## barryb

Looks like the iPad will have "Slingability"

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/30/sling-working-on-player-for-ipad-windows-phone-7-series/


----------



## tcusta00

barryb said:


> Looks like the iPad will have "Slingability"
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/30/sling-working-on-player-for-ipad-windows-phone-7-series/


The iPad just became much more interesting. :eek2:


----------



## barryb

tcusta00 said:


> The iPad just became much more interesting. :eek2:


I figured a few here would appreciate the possibilities. 10 hour battery life makes for some serious sling time.


----------



## phrelin

So we might be watching TV from our Slingbox Pro and it runs Kindle books. Looking more and more like it could turn out to be an interesting experiment. I guess my wife may have made a smart buy.

Oh yes, and she too got her UPS shipping notice from Shenzhen, China, but apparently they've already screwed the pooch on that one with this notice:


> THE SERVICE SELECTED IS NOT AVAILABLE TO THE DESTINATION ADDRESS / DOWNGRADED, FORWARDED TO CONSIGNEE, SELECTED SERVICE IS NOT AVAILABLE


 We do not get one day air, however we do get two day shipping. Sigh, the difficulties of living rural.


----------



## barryb

phrelin said:


> Sigh, the difficulties of living rural.


....but the views outside the windows seem to somehow make up for it phrelin.

I opted for the 3G model (I travel a lot), so I have to wait for an "unknown date sometime in later April".


----------



## Chris Blount

barryb said:


> ....but the views outside the windows seem to somehow make up for it phrelin.
> 
> I opted for the 3G model (I travel a lot), so I have to wait for an "unknown date sometime in later April".


Me too. I don't mind the wait though. I was thinking about going to the Apple store or Best Buy to get my iPad fix for the month. LOL


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

but iTunes still stinks


----------



## barryb

Chris Blount said:


> Me too. I don't mind the wait though. I was thinking about going to the Apple store or Best Buy to get my iPad fix for the month. LOL


I am waiting for my case to be delivered. At least that age old question is answered Chris... "what comes first: the iPad or the case?"

I might have to walk around with that empty case so I can look like the cool kids.


----------



## barryb

wilbur_the_goose said:


> but iTunes still stinks


Rumor has it that iTunes works very well on a MAC... go figure. I cannot comment as I speak in PC, and with that... I agree.


----------



## tcusta00

barryb said:


> I am waiting for my case to be delivered. At least that age old question is answered Chris... "what comes first: the iPad or the case?"
> 
> I might have to walk around with that empty case so I can look like the cool kids.


Don't worry, there's a pdf for that! You can now print your very own iPad to go in your fancy new case while you wait:

http://articles.akgfx.com/2010/02/printable-ipad-template-pdf/


----------



## barryb

tcusta00 said:


> Don't worry, there's a pdf for that! You can now print your very own iPad to go in your fancy new case while you wait:
> 
> http://articles.akgfx.com/2010/02/printable-ipad-template-pdf/


Thats hot.


----------



## Grentz

My favorite case company just came out with their iPad lineup...yum:
http://techislands.com/Blog/Entries/vaja-ipad-lineup.html

Stupid things are ridiculously expensive though


----------



## Steve

Here's the New York Times's David Pogue on the new iPad: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/technology/personaltech/01pogue.html?hp

Interesting tidbit:

_"If you have the cellular model, you can buy AT&T service so you can get online anywhere. (Cellular iPads aren't available until next month; I tested a Wi-Fi-only model.)

But how's this for a rare deal from a cell company: there's no contract. By tapping a button in Settings, you can order up a month of unlimited cellular Internet service for $30. Or pay $15 for 250 megabytes of Internet data; when it runs out, you can either buy another 250 megs, or just upgrade to the unlimited plan for the month. Either way, you can cancel and rejoin as often as you want - just March, July and November, for example - without penalty. The other carriers are probably cursing AT&T's name for setting this precedent."_


----------



## Grentz

Sounds pretty sweet even though it is still expensive (though discounted and not abnormal for cell carriers) data rates.

The thing that is annoying me is how greedy the subscription people are getting, $18+/mo for subs to things like WSJ? That is insane!!! The print edition is $10/mo and the online is around $8.5/mo!


----------



## Marlin Guy




----------



## barryb

Netflix anyone?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/01/netflix-abc-and-1-348-more-ipad-approved-apps-revealed/


----------



## dennisj00

BAD NEWS!!! Just got UPS Exception email that shipment is being held (in Customs) and rescheduled delivery of 4-05.

I hope it's wrong. . . there's going to be a lot of unhappy geeks! (including the wife and I)

EDIT. . . Hopefully it's just details . . from theiPadguide.com. . .

"The good news is that UPS has indicated that iPad shipments are on schedule for delivery on Saturday in areas where weekend delivery is available. Best estimates indicate that iPad shipments are currently in transit between Ghaungzhou and US locations now, and customers will likely begin to see domestic arrival scans in the near future."


----------



## Chris Blount

dennisj00 said:


> BAD NEWS!!! Just got UPS Exception email that shipment is being held (in Customs) and rescheduled delivery of 4-05.
> 
> I hope it's wrong. . . there's going to be a lot of unhappy geeks! (including the wife and I)
> 
> EDIT. . . Hopefully it's just details . . from theiPadguide.com. . .
> 
> "The good news is that UPS has indicated that iPad shipments are on schedule for delivery on Saturday in areas where weekend delivery is available. Best estimates indicate that iPad shipments are currently in transit between Ghaungzhou and US locations now, and customers will likely begin to see domestic arrival scans in the near future."


I think thats happening with everyone.


----------



## Steve

I expect that Samsung, HTC, Moto _et al _are furiously working on their own tablets. I say this, because I'm pretty sure Google won't want to cede Apple the same exclusive lead time with this product as Apple enjoyed with the iPhone. Hopefully by the start of the next school year there will be more affordable alternatives to choose from.

I also have no doubt that at the 2011 CES, Steve Balmer will be showing off a prototype Zune tablet. 

Will be fun to watch developments. Competition is good!


----------



## RunnerFL

dennisj00 said:


> BAD NEWS!!! Just got UPS Exception email that shipment is being held (in Customs) and rescheduled delivery of 4-05.
> 
> I hope it's wrong. . . there's going to be a lot of unhappy geeks! (including the wife and I)
> 
> EDIT. . . Hopefully it's just details . . from theiPadguide.com. . .
> 
> "The good news is that UPS has indicated that iPad shipments are on schedule for delivery on Saturday in areas where weekend delivery is available. Best estimates indicate that iPad shipments are currently in transit between Ghaungzhou and US locations now, and customers will likely begin to see domestic arrival scans in the near future."


They were held in GUANGZHOU, CN because Apple didn't provide the customs paperwork to UPS. It is Apple's way of making sure no one gets theirs before 4/3. They left China yesterday, according to my tracking # and should be on time.


----------



## phrelin

My wife finally got her "ooops" notice with the explanation that since UPS doesn't deliver on Saturday, but she'll get it on Monday. It's current status is:


> ANCHORAGE, AK, US 04/01/2010 9:13 P.M. ARRIVAL SCAN


My guess is we are not the only residential address to which UPS has never provided Saturday delivery service. But if you lived with Steve Jobs you probably get Sunday-right-before-brunch service. Why else would they have picked a Saturday for delivery?


----------



## barryb

LETS GET NEKKID!

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-FCC-Teardown/2197/1


----------



## RunnerFL

phrelin said:


> My wife finally got her "ooops" notice with the explanation that since UPS doesn't deliver on Saturday, but she'll get it on Monday. It's current status is:
> ​My guess is we are not the only residential address to which UPS has never provided Saturday delivery service. But if you lived with Steve Jobs you probably get Sunday-right-before-brunch service. Why else would they have picked a Saturday for delivery?


My area has Saturday Delivery, I didn't know not all areas has UPS Saturday Delivery, but my tracking still only has it leaving China as the last update.

I'm just wondering why they didn't use FedEx which has Nationwide Saturday Delivery.


----------



## dennisj00

I hope it's not a bad scene to not get delivery tomorrow. Everything during the promotion and ordering process said delivery tomorrow or pick up at store. . . .For us, I thought about the choice, but delivery at home with coffee made a lot more sense than driving 45 minutes. . .

But it could be a major faux pas for Apple / UPS. . . .


----------



## njblackberry

Grentz said:


> Sounds pretty sweet even though it is still expensive (though discounted and not abnormal for cell carriers) data rates.
> 
> The thing that is annoying me is how greedy the subscription people are getting, $18+/mo for subs to things like WSJ? That is insane!!! The print edition is $10/mo and the online is around $8.5/mo!


Download and install a fantastic program called Calibre; it formats newspapers and magazines from the web and loads them to the device.. I know they have a Windows and Mac versions available and I use this extensively on my Kindle. Overpaying for periodicals is absurd.


----------



## Grentz

njblackberry said:


> Download and install a fantastic program called Calibre; it formats newspapers and magazines from the web and loads them to the device.. I know they have a Windows and Mac versions available and I use this extensively on my Kindle. Overpaying for periodicals is absurd.


Fair enough, but that is still against the main point.

The iPad version is overpriced when in the past the idea behind it was to get cheap subscriptions that still were making money for the content owners, but also providing viewers with a new way of viewing the content.


----------



## Chris Blount

Just picked one up at Best Buy. Couldn't stand it. I have the 3G version on order so will probably give this one to my daughter or sell it next month. 

I will say one thing, it's well built. Feels solid in your hands.


----------



## RunnerFL

UPS just dropped mine off about 20 mins ago. The guy was actually saying "Your iPad is here" as I was walking to the door. :lol:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Chris,

Do the stores (Best Buy or Apple) have demo units to play with?

I didn't pre-order as I kinda wanted to play with one first and see what I thought.

Still torn between the idea of the iPad and the thought of what might be the next iPhone release... and figuring I could only pick one.

For programming purposes (as I'm still learning) I might be better off with the iPad so I have one of each platform type... so I'm leaning that way.


----------



## harsh

Along similar lines, if the next gen iPhone is G4 as many suspect, why snap up the G3 iPad?


----------



## harsh

Stewart Vernon said:


> Do the stores (Best Buy or Apple) have demo units to play with?


Some products sell better without a hands-on demo.


----------



## Chris Blount

Stewart Vernon said:


> Chris,
> 
> Do the stores (Best Buy or Apple) have demo units to play with?


 The Best Buy I went to had 3 on display.


----------



## Chris Blount

A nice little surprise I didn't know about. The Wi-Fi runs on both 2.4 or 5 GHz. It's blazing fast on my 5 GHz network!


----------



## dennisj00

It's Awesome!! Typing on it as I type! 

Got it at 9:16 - first one off the truck. . .

then a 40 mile bike ride while wife got it settled in.

One big difference I've seen already --radar gifs on Intellicast work!

Off to load the Dtv app!

Edit: Dtv was already loaded from wife's configuration-- just had to login and it works GREAT!!

Now need DirecTv2iPad!!


----------



## Chris Blount

Typing on it right now. The keyboard takes a few minutes to adapt but not bad. I can see this as being a netbook killer. 

The screen is definitely crisp and clear. HD YouTube looks fantastic. 

IPhone apps blown up to fill the screen are quite acceptable. Even the Sling app looks pretty good. 

So far not a bad device. Definitely a blast!


----------



## phrelin

Sigh. It's sitting at UPS facilities in nearby Ukiah.










​


----------



## Stewart Vernon

harsh said:


> Along similar lines, if the next gen iPhone is G4 as many suspect, why snap up the G3 iPad?


That's an interesting thought.

Initially I wanted to get the 64GB Wi-fi only model and save the money on the 3G part. The "problem" then was I found out you don't get GPS either with the Wi-fi only version.

But.. if I think about it like that... I could swing back to the Wi-fi only version.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Chris Blount said:


> A nice little surprise I didn't know about. The Wi-Fi runs on both 2.4 or 5 GHz. It's blazing fast on my 5 GHz network!


I remember reading somewhere that the iPad was supposed to have built-in "N" Wi-fi, whereas the iPhone (even the 3GS) was still on "G" Wifi... so I was thinking there ought to be some better performance with the iPad Wifi.


----------



## njblackberry

I'm NJBlackBerry, and I'm a PC. And a BlackBerry.

Got my iPad today. To use for work. Work paid for it. And I have to evaluate it, and pass it around...

After 1 hour, I went out and bought one for home. 

It is really, really nice. Everything about it - the easy typing - which I could not stand on the iPhone or iPod Touch - and the overall design make it a winner.

It will NOT replace my laptop - for business, or my BlackBerry (it still doesn't multitask well, and without my work IM, it is not quite there).

But, it is great.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

njblackberry said:


> It will NOT replace my laptop - for business, or my BlackBerry (it still doesn't multitask well, and without my work IM, it is not quite there).
> 
> But, it is great.


Even Apple calls it a "recreational device".

It is not intended to replace a laptop or PC, just be a compliment to it.

Personally...despite my years of lust for techno-gadgets...I have no interest in it whatsoever. I had one in my hands at CES for about 5 minutes, and agree that it is "neat" - but I would be hard pressed to come up with a reason to get one.

That said, I can also see how Apple loyalists or folks who spend alot of time with photos, Facebook, music, and other graphical things all day long would thoroughly enjoy it.

You are correct - Apple does a good job with marketing and the hype around new devices they release. There is no denying the strong initial interest in this new unit. Like the iPod....they will sell plenty of these things.


----------



## ncxcstud

spent about 10 minutes with it today at our local Apple Store... in that brief time, it felt just like a big iPod/iPhone.

I'd never create documents on it (because that was a pain just trying to select something) and it's file manager would get tedious with more than 10 documents to choose from.

The reader app was pretty cool and was about the only thing that made me go, "cool, that is pretty neat."

Other than that, it just felt like a 10 inch iPod for me...and I already have one of those...


----------



## Phil T

My wife and I sat through a one hour hands on demo. It is very nice and I can see one in my future someday. I currently have a Macbook Pro, IMac and IPhone. I didn't see any great advantage for me to own one right now.


----------



## RunnerFL

Stewart Vernon said:


> That's an interesting thought.
> 
> Initially I wanted to get the 64GB Wi-fi only model and save the money on the 3G part. The "problem" then was I found out you don't get GPS either with the Wi-fi only version.
> 
> But.. if I think about it like that... I could swing back to the Wi-fi only version.


I went back and forth for weeks on whether or not to get the Wi-Fi only or 3G version.

Here is what convinced me not to wait for 3G:

- Most everywhere I go I have WiFi
- I could afford 64gb if WiFi only, only 32gb if 3G
- I already have an iPhone so I don't need 3G for GPS
- Maps still work with WiFi only, no problem locating you.
- AT&T will eventually turn on tethering allowing the iPad to connect to my iPhone to use a 3G connection if needed.

YMMV


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

I picked up a 16GB and a 64GB at the Apple Store earlier (I had a 16GB on reserve). I listed the 64GB on eBay a little earlier. I watched a 16GB ($499) go for $800 on eBay earlier and the 64GB ($699) go for $1000. So hopefully I'll be able to get one for free out of this deal. :lol: I don't know why people are paying so much for them. They're still readily available at this point. I waited a total of 5 minutes at the Apple Store. I haven't decided when I'm going to list the 16GB yet. I'm going to keep an eye on existing auctions and give the Apple Store and Best Buy a call later to see if they still have them in stock.

I did play with one at the Apple store for ~10 minutes or so. I was shocked at how many they had out on display. If I had to guess, I'd say at least 50-60. Overall, I was very impressed. It's quite slick. Very fast. Surprising easy to type on the keyboard. Of course, it does have a couple of shortcomings that I wish Apple had done differently (file management system, more than 1 user profile, camera, etc)... but I still think I'll pick one up for myself at some point. It would be a great couch surfing machine, but won't replace my MacBook Pro completely.


----------



## RunnerFL

Greg Alsobrook said:


> I picked up a 16GB and a 64GB at the Apple Store earlier (I had a 16GB on reserve). I listed the 64GB on eBay a little earlier. I watched a 16GB ($499) go for $800 on eBay earlier and the 64GB ($699) go for $1000. So hopefully I'll be able to get one for free out of this deal. :lol: I don't know why people are paying so much for them. They're still readily available at this point.


The key is to list it and offer International Shipping. People outside the US are willing to pay big bucks for them because they are only available in the US so far. I saw a 64gb go for close to 2k.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

RunnerFL said:


> The key is to list it and offer International Shipping. People outside the US are willing to pay big bucks for them because they are only available in the US so far. I saw a 64gb go for close to 2k.


Hmmm... Interesting. Didn't think of that. Guess I should go adjust my auction.

Thanks!


----------



## RunnerFL

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Hmmm... Interesting. Didn't think of that. Guess I should go adjust my auction.
> 
> Thanks!


Yeah, I wondered about it at first when I saw them already going for over a grand on 3/12/10. Then I realized they all offered International Shipping.


----------



## dennisj00

Folks, it's not just a Touch or iPhone on steroids. It's going to change the landscape for newspapers and magazines . . . And browsing. . .

I haven't see anything this good since Windows 95 and the browser / IE.


----------



## njblackberry

It won't revolutionize browsing. I think Safari is a very weak browser.

As far as newspapers and magazines, they better HOPE the iPads help them, as they are half dead already.


----------



## Grentz

dennisj00 said:


> Folks, it's not just a Touch or iPhone on steroids. It's going to change the landscape for newspapers and magazines . . . And browsing. . .
> 
> I haven't see anything this good since Windows 95 and the browser / IE.


I just don't see it, sorry. The browser is not revolutionizing anything...it is stripped down from a full browser and thus CANNOT be a "better browsing experience". Maybe browsing in better places, but not a better web experience.

For newspapers and magazines...ya it's cool, but they are already showing their greed (more expensive for an ipad sub than paper delivered by mail?) and most people want web content for free! (they will see things on the iPad as digital "web" content for the most part).

It is a cool device and I can think of some times I would really like one for not to mention I am considering getting one in the future. So don't take my comments the wrong way, but it is not a better experience for browsing. A 8 year old tablet PC or an old little 12" iBook provides a better browsing experience loaded up with firefox, safari, or your favorite browser. If you want smaller, then devices like the UMPCs (OQO *Drool*) and such provided much fuller experiences of a computer on the go and the ability to run full web browsers.


----------



## HDJulie

For those who have one -- how easy is it to use while sitting in a chair? Are you supporting it with one hand & typing or clicking with the other?


----------



## njblackberry

Sitting on the couch. Holding it - landscape mode - in my left hand. Typing with the right. It's fine.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I think if used for what it is intended... the iPad will be good.

It should be a good reader for books, newspapers, magazines. It should also be a good portable movie/music viewer. I also think it could become a major player in portable gaming too.

But it wouldn't replace a development desktop or full-featured notebook... and I don't believe Apple meant for it to. I think they mean it to be part of a "family" of devices that Apple hopes you will buy.

I did stop by a Best Buy this evening... and they had 4 on display for demo. I didn't play around much as I wanted to get home for the NCAAs.


----------



## ejjames

At USSB, we used an Apple Newton to take transmitter readings from DBS-1.


----------



## dpeters11

dennisj00 said:


> Folks, it's not just a Touch or iPhone on steroids. It's going to change the landscape for newspapers and magazines . . . And browsing. . .
> 
> I haven't see anything this good since Windows 95 and the browser / IE.


The iPhone may have been revolutionary for browsing, as it was the best browser I'd seen on a device, at least builtin.

I don't see this being revolutionary for browsing, or for newspapers. Especially if the WSJ model is going to be common. $17 a month, when the normal online version is under $9? No way.

It's a big Touch, just with more expensive apps. I played with one at the store. I'm a gadget lover, but just don't see the point in this one. I *might* replace my first gen touch with a 4th gen when they come out, if they actually add a killer feature.


----------



## RunnerFL

It will revolutionize the world of owner's manuals.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-04-02-ipadhyundai02_ST_N.htm


----------



## difficultrun

Am I correct that you can only have one user profile on the iPad? I was thinking of sharing one with my wife, but it doesn't seem to be possible ... so she'll have to do without!


----------



## dennisj00

We're sharing one. . . it duplicated her iPhone account with the Kindle books and other paid apps. . . and I've added the few apps that I like. . . mostly free.

I also agree that the 3G isn't needed. . . have a iPhone for that. Otherwise, we're in a wifi location.

I agree Safari isn't a strong browser, I miss the multiple tabs. . . but I think they've really hit the sweet spot for size / form factor / battery life. 

The mis-priced subscriptions have nothing to do with the iPad . . . they'll correct their pricing model or die. . . what brain surgeon thought they could price it higher than a normal web sub?

Check back in a few months. . . it's revolutionary. . .


----------



## Grentz

The only revolutionary thing is that it is getting people to buy tablets. But it is not because of the device itself, it is because of Apples huge PR system that works wonders in marketing and could sell ice cubes to Eskimos (not that it is a bad thing). 

I can't begin to tell you how many people I have seen talking about the iPad and all the things they are naming as so amazing and innovative are from products that have been around for a decade or more. It is like when people tell me how the iPhone was the first touch screen phone and I just have to look at them with a WTF expression 

UMPCs and Tablet PCs were just as amazing to look at back in the early 2000s, but were marketed like crap and did not have many 3rd party developers on board. Thus they became a niche product. Apple made a nice device, it is going to sell like crazy, it packs some neat features, but it is not doing anything too far from what has been done before and it has some limitations to get over with how it is being marketed (I am seeing the netbook fiasco all over again!).

and again I will highlight that I like the iPad and could see buying one. I am not saying it is a bad device.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

I've seen a couple of comments about Safari on the iPad being limiting. How exactly is that other than the lack of flash?


----------



## Grentz

Java

No DBSTalk Chat 

Which is kinda hilarious considering Java is on just about everything, even Bluray players and really old cell phones


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Grentz said:


> Java
> 
> No DBSTalk Chat
> 
> Which is kinda hilarious considering Java is on just about everything, even Bluray players and really old cell phones


True. But I get by just fine without either on my iPhone. :whatdidid


----------



## Chris Blount

HDJulie said:


> For those who have one -- how easy is it to use while sitting in a chair? Are you supporting it with one hand & typing or clicking with the other?


Actually I'm sitting in a chair with my legs crossed and the iPad resting on my leg. It's quite comfortable and there is no need to hold it.


----------



## Grentz

Greg Alsobrook said:


> True. But I get by just fine without either on my iPhone. :whatdidid


There is no question it is a good browser and great for many things. I use my iPod Touch every day almost and it works great. I could get by just fine forum surfing, looking at the news, etc. with the iPad on the couch.

The only point is it is not the best browser out there, as Jobs tried to make it out to be, when a good chunk of the web will not work (flash and java as well as anything else that requires addons such as silverlight). The good thing is that they have integrated some things like a PDF viewer. It will be interesting to see if you can play quicktime content in the browser directly. Come to think of it I dont think I have ever tried that even on my iPod Touch, have you Greg?


----------



## njblackberry

Time Magazine has a very good article on why people want the iPad (the first article, not the fanboy feature - the author's choice of words - where (gasp) he gets to meet Steve Jobs). 

Opera will have their browser out soon (it was submitted 11 days ago for certification) and something called Browser Duo is out there.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Chris Blount said:


> Just picked one up at Best Buy. Couldn't stand it. I have the 3G version on order so will probably give this one to my daughter or sell it next month.





harsh said:


> Along similar lines, if the next gen iPhone is G4 as many suspect, why snap up the G3 iPad?


I heard the ones sold today are not 3G compatible (wonder how many don't know this?). So why wouldn't you wait to get one?


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Grentz said:


> There is no question it is a good browser and great for many things. I use my iPod Touch every day almost and it works great. I could get by just fine forum surfing, looking at the news, etc. with the iPad on the couch.
> 
> The only point is it is not the best browser out there, as Jobs tried to make it out to be, when a good chunk of the web will not work (flash and java as well as anything else that requires addons such as silverlight). The good thing is that they have integrated some things like a PDF viewer. It will be interesting to see if you can play quicktime content in the browser directly. Come to think of it I dont think I have ever tried that even on my iPod Touch, have you Greg?


I definitely don't think Safari is the best browser out there... no matter what Unckie Steve says. I think more and more stuff will start to move towards HTML5 (which _is_ iPod/Phone/Pad friendly) and away from flash. Several major websites are already stepping forward with HTML5 sites. YouTube, NYTimes and Flickr come to mind right off the bat.

I know the iPad will play videos in the browser directly (see here and watch the Safari tutorial). Not sure if they are QT videos or what. On the iPhone, the video opens in a video player window.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

njblackberry said:


> Time Magazine has a very good article on why people want the iPad (the first article, not the fanboy feature - the author's choice of words - where (gasp) he gets to meet Steve Jobs).
> 
> Opera will have their browser out soon (it was submitted 11 days ago for certification) and something called Browser Duo is out there.


I sure hope the Opera browser gets approved. Looks pretty nice.


----------



## phrelin

TheRatPatrol said:


> I heard the ones sold today are not 3G compatible (wonder how many don't know this?). So why wouldn't you wait to get one?


The 3G version costs $130 more and you have to subscribe to ATT 3G to use it. In my case, I'd have to leave home and drive at least 30 miles to get service (it won't matter if they ultimately get Verizon). Or I could sit out on the deck and use the wifi, save all that money, and sip an iced tea. Well...not today, it's cold and rainy. But this Summer.


----------



## Grentz

Greg Alsobrook said:


> I definitely don't think Safari is the best browser out there... no matter what Unckie Steve says. I think more and more stuff will start to move towards HTML5 (which _is_ iPod/Phone/Pad friendly) and away from flash. Several major websites are already stepping forward with HTML5 sites. YouTube, NYTimes and Flickr come to mind right off the bat.
> 
> I know the iPad will play videos in the browser directly (see here and watch the Safari tutorial). Not sure if they are QT videos or what. On the iPhone, the video opens in a video player window.


I agree completely with you. 

My comments about "best browser" and such were not really directed specifically at you, but some others that have been saying that. Just venting a bit I guess :lol:


----------



## BubblePuppy

phrelin said:


> The 3G version costs $130 more and you have to subscribe to ATT 3G to use it. In my case, I'd have to leave home and drive at least 30 miles to get service (it won't matter if they ultimately get Verizon). Or I could sit out on the deck and use the wifi, save all that money, and sip an iced tea. Well...not today, it's cold and rainy. But this Summer.


But subscribing to ATT 3G, if you can receive it, can be on a monthly basis, there isn't a long term commitment. Subscribe when you do get it on a month by month basis.


----------



## harsh

TheRatPatrol said:


> I heard the ones sold today are not 3G compatible (wonder how many don't know this?). So why wouldn't you wait to get one?


Pretty much everyone knew that the 3G version would be some time coming. The delay was announced at the debut and pretty much every expository story thereafter.

What I think some will wait for is the 4G version somewhere around the release of a new iPhone. I've used 3G on the iPhone and it is likely faster to drive to a WiFi hot spot than struggle through that.


----------



## Grentz

harsh said:


> What I think some will wait for is the 4G version somewhere around the release of a new iPhone. I've used 3G on the iPhone and it is likely faster to drive to a WiFi hot spot than struggle through that.


Must have been where you were. Here on my phone I get 1mb down or so via ATT 3G when I have played with it


----------



## machavez00

Sorry if this has been posted already.
courtesy of http://www.foxtrot.com/


----------



## machavez00

Hands on review from a Yahoo staff writer



> Sun Apr 4, 7:41 am ET
> 
> The UPS guy handed me my new iPad just a few hours ago, and yes--the jumbo-sized screen is as glorious as they say, and I was shocked by how good HD videos looked. But I was also surprised by how heavy the iPad feels, and if you were hoping to read e-books all day under the clear, bright blue sky, well...bad news, folks. These and more iPad surprises, coming right up.


Full article:The 10 most surprising things about the iPad


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I rarely use 3G on my iPhone. In fact, I have it turned off 99.9% of the time. I use Wifi exclusively at home... and try to find free Wifi hotspots (McDonalds, Starbucks, Borders, Panera Bread, etc. etc.) when I am out and about.

What I *might* miss by not having the "3G" iPad would be the built-in GPS.

I know the Wifi-only iPad will try and use known Wifi hotspots to locate itself, but that isn't as accurate.

For most apps it won't make a difference... and you can work around for Google Earth/Maps... but GPS navigation wouldn't be as accurate (though I can run that on my iPhone) and there might be some new innovations that wouldn't work as well without GPS.

That, to me, is what makes it a harder decision over the 3G version of the iPad. The $130 cost-difference, though, is probably enough to push me into just getting a Wifi only one.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

machavez00 said:


> Hands on review from a Yahoo staff writer
> 
> Full article:The 10 most surprising things about the iPad


Seems like a nice unbiased review.


----------



## Steve

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Seems like a nice unbiased review.


Agree.

The point about potential difficulty reading in bright sunlight may be a sticking point for some. We were on vacation recently and saw a few Kindles on the beach. From what I could see, the displays looked very crisp in bright sunlight, but black and white, of course.

I wonder if some sort of "anti-glare" slip-on case would help? Might also minimize the reflections the reviewer noted while watching movies.


----------



## njblackberry

Interesting toss up. The Kindle (I have a Kindle 2), doesn't work very well in low light. And I don't want to carry a Kindle light or anything like that. Very difficult to read in some conditions.

Now the iPad doesn't work well in bright light.

Can't win them all. I'm not ditching the Kindle yet.


----------



## davemayo

My iPad works fine in bright light.


----------



## Grentz

davemayo said:


> My iPad works fine in bright light.


Considering not even the iPod Touch/iPhone do (along with many other phones and devices that have glossy screens), I find that surprising.

Direct Sunlight is different than just bright inside lights. It is one area where traditional eink eBook readers really do well and look like a normal book.


----------



## Steve

Grentz said:


> Considering not even the iPod Touch/iPhone do (along with many other phones and devices that have glossy screens), I find that surprising.
> 
> Direct Sunlight is different than just bright inside lights. It is one area where traditional eink eBook readers really do well and look like a normal book.


Ya. I've got the latest Zune HD with the OLED screen, and it's barely visible in direct sunlight. I definitely have to move into the shade to enjoy it while on vacation.

And I have the same "reflections" issue with the Zune the iPad reviewer noted. It can be like a mirror at times.


----------



## njblackberry

From today's New York Times..



> A Reader's Ode to the iPad
> As longtime Pogophiles know, I'm fond of writing new lyrics (about the tech industry) to old melodies. But today, I've got some competition. Here's a clever song parody by reader Peter Weisz&#8230;
> 
> Can't Take My Hands Off of You
> (to the tune of "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You," by Bob Crewe and Bob Gaudio)
> 
> You're just too cool to be true.
> Can't take my hands off of you.
> You've got a screen I can touch.
> And you don't cost all that much.
> For years I kept hope alive
> And at long last you've arrived.
> You're just too cool to be true.
> Can't take my hands off of you.
> 
> I want you, iPad.
> And without a glitch
> I need you, iPad
> To fill a lonely niche
> You'll want an iPad.
> Trust in Steve when he says&#8230;
> 
> It's like an iPhone
> That's been on steroids.
> I'm dumping my phone
> Yes, it's a Google Droid.
> Just need my iPad, baby.
> Just my iPad&#8230;
> 
> I love the way that you look.
> When I do a game or a book.
> The Nook's okay, yes, it's true.
> But it can't hold a Kindle to you.
> Plus you've got great apps galore
> Sold at a new iPad app store.
> You're just too cool to be true.
> Can't take my hands off of you.
> 
> I want you, iPad.
> And without a glitch
> I need you, iPad
> To fill a lonely niche
> You'll want an iPad.
> Trust in Steve when he says&#8230;
> 
> It's like an iPhone
> That's been on steroids.
> I'm dumping my phone
> It's a Google Droid
> Just need my iPad, baby.
> Just my iPad&#8230;.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

I would think adding a peel and stick screen protector to the iPad would help with the direct sun issues.


----------



## Grentz

Greg Alsobrook said:


> I would think adding a peel and stick screen protector to the iPad would help with the direct sun issues.


One of the antiglare ones should certainly help. It helped a lot on my other devices.


----------



## RunnerFL

Greg Alsobrook said:


> I would think adding a peel and stick screen protector to the iPad would help with the direct sun issues.


It definitely does!


----------



## Steve

Glad to know they work. Gonna get one for my Zune HD as well.


----------



## Grentz

The Zune also has an OLED screen which makes it have an even tougher time in sunlight sadly 

But the advantage of OLED is that they look phenomenal in normal inside conditions.


----------



## davemayo

One issue I've seen. The screen gets covered with fingerprints very quickly. I thought it was supposed to have some anti-fingerprint coating.


----------



## dennisj00

The first thing we did with our iPhones out of the box was put a screen protector on.

Made the trip yesterday to BB to get one for the iPad but unfortunately, they were closed.

Both are usable in the sunlight (without sunglasses), but the Pads glare / reflection needs a frosted or anti-glare protector.

It could be a great tool for outside work -- surveying, architects, landscape designers, etc.


----------



## Grentz

dennisj00 said:


> It could be a great tool for outside work -- surveying, architects, landscape designers, etc.


Definitely needs a rugged case for that type of abuse :lol:

An otterbox type case will help, but those guys are not careful enough. That is where companies like Motion Computing and Panasonic have made a ton of money with rugged tablets and laptops.


----------



## dpeters11

The question I've been asking on the iPad has been answered.

It will blend. And how they get it in the blender.
http://www.blendtec.com/willitblend/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=ipad


----------



## dennisj00

Second trip to BB for a screen protector . . .guess what - None! No accessories yet. (except small netbook size cases.)

Found that Apple has quit selliing them for the Touch, phone and iPad. They say they're not needed and it would be difficult to put one on the Pad without bubbles.


----------



## dpeters11

dennisj00 said:


> Second trip to BB for a screen protector . . .guess what - None! No accessories yet. (except small netbook size cases.)
> 
> Found that Apple has quit selliing them for the Touch, phone and iPad. They say they're not needed and it would be difficult to put one on the Pad without bubbles.


Zagg does sell them. I agree about difficulty installing. It's hard enough for me on an iPhone. I wonder though, I've seen a mall kiosk for them. Maybe they'll install as well, they might be able to do it if they've had a lot of practice.

http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield...s-covers-skins-shields.php?intcmp=hero_banner


----------



## Chris Blount

I stopped using screen protectors long ago. Whatever is stong enough to scratch the glass is strong enough to cut through an over priced piece of plastic.


----------



## davring

Chris Blount said:


> I stopped using screen protectors long ago. Whatever is stong enough to scratch the glass is strong enough to cut through an over priced piece of plastic.


I agree completely and I think the glass is easier to clean than the plastic film.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I'm about to come to the conclusion I don't need a screen protector either.

I had read somewhere (and confirmed at least part of it at the local Apple store) that Apple was going to stop selling screen protectors themselves.

It was a 2-part rumor... One was that it wasn't needed and that by selling them it made it look like Apple was inferring the protection was needed, and that sent a negative message to some. The other rumor was that it looked bad with the bubbles when improperly attached AND worse, interfered with the capacitive-touch sensitivity and some customers were returning their phones due to these problems.

From personal observation, I can echo pretty much all of the above... and as Chris notes, anything that would actually scratch the glass would scratch through the plastic too.. so I'm inclined to remove mine at some point and not replace it with another.

In that case, I would start out by not ever putting one on my iPad should I get one of those at some point.


----------



## davemayo

Chris Blount said:


> I stopped using screen protectors long ago. Whatever is stong enough to scratch the glass is strong enough to cut through an over priced piece of plastic.


+1 on all my various BBs over the years.


----------



## njblackberry

The bubbles on the small area for the BB and iPhone drove me crazy. No screen protector for the iPad....


----------



## Grentz

Don't buy those cheap ones at BB, the good ones like Zagg and Bodyguardz are extremely nice. If applied right you will have no bubbles and no issues. 

Advantages of a screen protector:
-Removes some of the static properties of the glass
-Antiglare protectors help in the sun
-Easier to keep clean (IMO)
-Do provide protection

I have seen plenty of devices saved by screen protectors and plenty of iPhones/iPod Touches scratched up, sorry guys. But they are not for everyone and it is up to you


----------



## LarryFlowers

Early reports are coming in that the iPad is overheating when used outdoors in sunshine. See http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20001749-243.html

Also some older PC's & Macs can't recharge the iPad even though they have USB 2.0 ports.. not the iPads fault.

Also some reports of intermittent wifi connections.

Saw one of these today. They are slick but NO i will not be drinking the Apple Kool Aid.

iPad owners enjoy your new toy!


----------



## phrelin

LarryFlowers said:


> Early reports are coming in that the iPad is overheating when used outdoors in sunshine. See http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20001749-243.html
> 
> Also some older PC's & Macs can't recharge the iPad even though they have USB 2.0 ports.. not the iPads fault.
> 
> Also some reports of intermittent wifi connections.
> 
> Saw one of these today. They are slick but NO i will not be drinking the Apple Kool Aid.
> 
> iPad owners enjoy your new toy!


I'd like to. The case came today via Fed Ex regular shipping. But the iPad itself still shows sitting in the UPS warehouse even though a pair of slippers my wife bought are on the delivery truck, which won't get here until about 5 pm. I can only hope they loaded the iPad on the truck without scanning it.


----------



## tonyd79

Stewart Vernon said:


> From personal observation, I can echo pretty much all of the above... and as Chris notes, anything that would actually scratch the glass would scratch through the plastic too.. so I'm inclined to remove mine at some point and not replace it with another.


Not so sure about that. You can get a scratch without it having to go very deep. I would rather replace the plastic than the screen. Or if I spill something on it, remove the screen. The screen won't protect it from a really bad scratch or from a hammer but it does offer some protection.

I have had such good luck with them that I don't even realize there is a screen on it.

Putting one on a iPad could be a big PITA, though.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

On the other hand, companies that specialize in vinyl signs could make a decent side business out of installing them for people. It takes patience, lightly soapy water, and a firm hand on a squeegee.


----------



## Marlin Guy

You're not going to like this..... :lol:


----------



## elaclair

Marlin Guy said:


> You're not going to like this..... :lol:


OH.....MY.....GAWD!!!


----------



## phrelin

Well it came late this afternoon. I'm letting it warm up since it's freezing outside and it was very cold.


----------



## dennisj00

LarryFlowers said:


> Early reports are coming in that the iPad is overheating when used outdoors in sunshine. See http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31747_7-20001749-243.html
> 
> Also some older PC's & Macs can't recharge the iPad even though they have USB 2.0 ports.. not the iPads fault.
> 
> Also some reports of intermittent wifi connections.
> 
> Saw one of these today. They are slick but NO i will not be drinking the Apple Kool Aid.
> 
> iPad owners enjoy your new toy!


Larry,

You and I are probably two of the biggest MS supporters on this board. . .your MS posts certainly more visible than mine. . . so don't take this in the wrong way.

I'm no Apple supporter but the iPhone / Touch and now the iPad have moved me to at least the middle. There have been lots of cool products based on MS products --- I remember buying my first MOUSE (optical) from Mouse Systems for over $300.00 (in eighties $$$$) but I haven't seen anything from hundreds / possibly hundreds of thousands of vendors that comes close to these 3 products since Windows '95.

I think the Pad is going to be as revolutianary as the 8800, the Apple I/ II, TRS-80, Mac (and all it's descendents), IBM PC (and all it's descendents), . . . and HDTV!!

So far, other than a few quirks with iPhone apps, it's absolutely awesome. No kool-aid here. And it's no TOY.


----------



## dennisj00

phrelin said:


> Well it came late this afternoon. I'm letting it warm up since it's freezing outside and it was very cold.


Turn it on!! ENJOY!! no sleep tonight for you!


----------



## dpeters11

To me, the HP Slate at least seems interesting.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/hp-slate-to-cost-549-have-1-6ghz-atom-z530-5-hour-battery/


----------



## Marlin Guy

LarryFlowers said:


> They are slick but NO i will not be drinking the Apple Kool Aid.


No more room in the fridge? :lol:


----------



## Marlin Guy

MS will copy it if it does well.
That's a fact.


----------



## Grentz

Marlin Guy said:


> MS will copy it if it does well.
> That's a fact.


HP already has......

In fact they did not actually copy it because the promos were out before the iPad promos :lol:

MS does not get into things like this very often. It was rare that they came out with the Zune that competes with the iPod (rare too that it is their branded device and not a third party with their software on it). MS is a software company first and foremost, not a Software/Hardware company like Apple. For example, Windows Phone 7 competes with the iPhone on a software level, but the hardware is up to OEMs interpretation. This is many times what has been MS's downfall as many of the devices represent the software badly (like a lot of the crappy WM Smartphones that came out in masses).

Didn't mean to get into it but o well, you started it!  :lol:


----------



## Grentz

Marlin Guy said:


> You're not going to like this..... :lol:


Blentec, making you say "Why didn't you just give it to me!" since 2007 :lol:


----------



## RunnerFL

LarryFlowers said:


> Also some older PC's & Macs can't recharge the iPad even though they have USB 2.0 ports.. not the iPads fault.


Actually it is the iPad's fault. It requires 10w to charge, USB ports only supply 5w.


----------



## dennisj00

Just saw my first iPad commercial during the NCAA game. . . no ads, they sold 700,000+ . . .

Hmmmm . . . .


----------



## Stewart Vernon

RunnerFL said:



> Actually it is the iPad's fault. It requires 10w to charge, USB ports only supply 5w.


Well, yes and no... It's supposed to be chargeable via computer OR via wall outlet. It's just that via computer will be slower than via the wall adapter.

In the case of the older PCs/Macs that won't charge the iPad... I wonder if they are talking about notebook computers?

I'd be surprised if a desktop computer that has USB 2.0 wouldn't charge the iPad... but I wouldn't be surprised to find that some laptop/notebooks wouldn't.

I know some other devices actually come with a dual-USB cable so you can plug into 2 USB ports on some laptops because they need the extra power when one USB port is insufficient.

Not defending Apple if there is a design issue here... but without knowing more, I'm not sure it is a new/unique problem that hasn't come up before.

Heck, our Dish DVRs don't support USB-powered external drives... we have to plug them into the wall for power... so Apple isn't alone if the iPad needs some extra oomph for re-charging.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

dennisj00 said:


> Just saw my first iPad commercial during the NCAA game. . . no ads, they sold 700,000+ . . .
> 
> Hmmmm . . . .


I thought I read on MacRumors.com that Apple announced they sold 300,000 over the weekend launch.


----------



## dennisj00

I think it was 300k delivered, 700k total sold (for the next delivery wave.)


----------



## dennisj00

Certainly not a scientific sample, but 3 desktops (Dell / HP) and 3 laptops (Dell, Apple) won't charge it from a usb.

It connects, loads driver, but says 'Not Charging'. . .


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

dennisj00 said:


> I think it was 300k delivered, 700k total sold (for the next delivery wave.)


I saw 300,000 on CNN earlier.. But I also heard 700,000 somewhere. Perhaps that number also includes the reserved and pre-sold 3G models, while the 300k is just units sold over the weekend, as you suggested.


----------



## Grentz

I have been seeing 300k sold as well. 

Are they offering preorders on the 3G models, I did not know if they were? Maybe that is what the 700k is like you said Greg.


----------



## RunnerFL

Stewart Vernon said:


> Well, yes and no... It's supposed to be chargeable via computer OR via wall outlet. It's just that via computer will be slower than via the wall adapter.


According to apple it requires the 10w wall outlet charge. It barely charges using the 5w wall adapter the my iPods use. It would take a day to charge it via USB. :lol:


----------



## Grentz

RunnerFL said:


> According to apple it requires the 10w wall outlet charge. It barely charges using the 5w wall adapter the my iPods use. It would take a day to charge it via USB. :lol:


Does it come with a wall charger?


----------



## RunnerFL

Grentz said:


> Does it come with a wall charger?


Yes


----------



## Grentz

RunnerFL said:


> Yes


Well that is good then. I don't get why the USB charging is such a big issue to so many then around the net. Just something to hate on I guess :lol:

If it was like the iPod where you had to buy the wall wart then I might understand more.


----------



## phrelin

I can't imagine why there's discussion about charging the battery. The manual clearly states:


> *Charge the battery:* The best way to charge the iPad battery is to connect iPad to a power outlet using the included Dock Connector to USB Cable and 10W USB power adapter. When you connect iPad to a USB 2.0 port on a Mac with the Dock Connector to USB Cable, iPad may charge slowly while syncing.
> 
> Important: The iPad battery may drain instead of charge if iPad is connected to a PC, to a computer that's turned off or is in sleep or standby mode, to a USB hub, or to the USB port on a keyboard.


What's not to understand?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I also know from experience, having worked at a company that designed computers... that not all USB ports are fully functional.

Some USB ports are not designed to supply power... so you might have a computer with 4 USB ports, but only 2 of them have power to supply to external devices.

Without knowing specifics, I'd also wonder if the computers in question had USB ports that supplied power to any devices.

But, even with all that... I gather it would be slow to charge via computer... so I would not depend on that since you get a wall adapter with the iPad.


----------



## phrelin

I have USB drives that power from the port. I also have two computers that can't power them without the dual port plugs even though the ports are USB 2.0. I have one computer that won't even power the drive with both plugs.

Of course, powered ports are not part of the USB 2.0 basic specification. And 10V is not standard on powered ports. So folks should just use the plug provided.

One could try these Adonics Dual Inputs USB power cable adapter:


----------



## P Smith

Stewart Vernon said:


> I also know from experience, having worked at a company that designed computers... *that not all USB ports are fully functional.
> *
> Some USB ports are not designed to supply power... so you might have a computer with 4 USB ports, but only 2 of them have power to supply to external devices.
> 
> Without knowing specifics, I'd also wonder if the computers in question had USB ports that supplied power to any devices.
> 
> But, even with all that... I gather it would be slow to charge via computer... so I would not depend on that since you get a wall adapter with the iPad.


That company would be sued easily for violating USB standard- by USB spec each port connected to MB's hub must provide +5V and 500 mA current. If you talking about non-powered hub, then it could be, but from engineering standpoint it's nonsense when it applied to _computer_.


----------



## Grentz

There are high and low power USB ports.

There also are many devices that go outside the spec such as hard drives that come with those Y cables (though many machines can still have beefy enough USB ports to power them with one).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power


----------



## ncxcstud

dennisj00 said:


> Just saw my first iPad commercial during the NCAA game. . . no ads, they sold 700,000+ . . .
> 
> Hmmmm . . . .


Someone has been using their DVR a lot then, because there have been a lot of spots of that one iPad ad, I've seen it at least once a week since the Super Bowl...


----------



## ncxcstud

Anyone have the problems that CNN.com is featuring a story on right now?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/ptech/04/06/ipad.wifi.problems/index.html?hpt=T2

That they are having wi-fi problems when they are laid upon a flat surface...


----------



## njblackberry

Apple announced they sold 300,000, which is below some analysts expectations, and is still an awful lot of hardware to move over one weekend.

And the power deal is huge for me. It should recharge off of a PC or laptop.


----------



## Chris Blount

njblackberry said:


> And the power deal is huge for me. It should recharge off of a PC or laptop.


From what I have been hearing is that it will still charge just at a slower rate and the iPad must be in standby. I haven't tried it yet myself.


----------



## phrelin

From PC World The IPad's Charging Challenge Explained:


> When connected to lower-power USB ports--those on older Macs, most Windows PCs, and most USB hubs (powered or unpowered)--the iPad's battery is not charged while the iPad is awake, but is charged (again, slowly) when the iPad is asleep. What's confusing here is that the message Not charging appears in the menu bar when the iPad is awake, which might lead you to assume that the offending USB port can never charge your iPad. But rest assured, Apple says: once you put the iPad to sleep, the battery will indeed charge. (If you could see the screen while the iPad was asleep, it might even display the charging icon. It's the modern-day "Does the refrigerator light stay on when I close the door?" mystery.)


 The article is pretty thorough on the subject.


----------



## dennisj00

ncxcstud said:


> Someone has been using their DVR a lot then, because there have been a lot of spots of that one iPad ad, I've seen it at least once a week since the Super Bowl...


Yes, we use the DVRs and 30skip (one reason we have 4 for 2 people!). . . about the only commercials we see are on live sports / news. While we've seen lots of 'there's an App for that' during the skips but last night was the first iPad commercial that I've seen.

Also, just checked with the wife and she hasn't seen one. Although the Food Network may not be the target audience!

Charging from the USB hasn't been a problem but it is a GREAT feature of the iPhone. For one, it's one less wierd connector / charger to keep up with.

For the iPad, around 50% is the lowest we've seen and it's been on/off for 12-18 hours a day. The 10 hour battery life is NICE.


----------



## Grentz

Sounds like the battery life is a lot better than the iPhone/iPod Touch then.

My iPod Touch battery gets killed with wifi browsing.


----------



## harsh

njblackberry said:


> Apple announced they sold 300,000, which is below some analysts expectations, and is still an awful lot of hardware to move over one weekend.


One article that I read said that the 300,000 included the 152,000 that sold during the original pre-orders as well as those shipped to resellers and partners.

I'm not sure which to believe but since Apple hasn't seen fit to "clarify" the numbers, I'm thinking they missed somebody's projections.


----------



## dpeters11

harsh said:


> One article that I read said that the 300,000 included the 152,000 that sold during the original pre-orders as well as those shipped to resellers and partners.
> 
> I'm not sure which to believe but since Apple hasn't seen fit to "clarify" the numbers, I'm thinking they missed somebody's projections.


I think that's how they did it with iPhone. It included the number sold to AT&T, which didn't mean sold to a consumer. Apple loves their creative accounting.

What I'm really interested in is if they announce OS 4 is free for Touch. The rules they said required it to be a charge were changed.


----------



## RunnerFL

Chris Blount said:


> From what I have been hearing is that it will still charge just at a slower rate and the iPad must be in standby. I haven't tried it yet myself.


It's a very very slow rate. Like 30 mins for 1%.


----------



## RunnerFL

Grentz said:


> Sounds like the battery life is a lot better than the iPhone/iPod Touch then.
> 
> My iPod Touch battery gets killed with wifi browsing.


Well it came fully charged and I've had to charge it once since I got it Saturday. I really haven't put it down and I know if I grabbed it right now it would say it has a 50% charge at least. That should give you some idea. The battery life is great.


----------



## phrelin

Multitasking is coming. From the engadget live blog on the iPhone OS 4 announcement:


> 11:02AM "And, we're bringing OS 4 to the iPad this Fall."


----------



## Chris Blount

Looks like the iPad 3G is coming April 30. The Apple stores will have them at 5PM and the Apple website pre-orders will get delivered that day.


----------



## barryb

Chris Blount said:


> Looks like the iPad 3G is coming April 30. The Apple stores will have them at 5PM and the Apple website pre-orders will get delivered that day.


Friday delivery!


----------



## durl

phrelin said:


> Multitasking is coming. From the engadget live blog on the iPhone OS 4 announcement:


Multitasking-Lite, but they're getting close.

Gotta hand it to Apple, they're typically very good at knowing what people want...or telling them what they SHOULD want.


----------



## Grentz

durl said:


> Gotta hand it to Apple, they're typically very good at knowing what people want...or telling them what they SHOULD want.


You just have to wait quite awhile for it to come if it is not initially there :lol:


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Grentz said:


> You just have to wait quite awhile for it to come if it is not initially there :lol:


As Unckie Steve said... "We're not the first, but we'll be the best".


----------



## Chris Blount

Well, I broke down and got a iPad 3G today at Best Buy. My wife is getting the Wi-Fi model I've been using all month. I was going to take it back for a refund but she actually wanted it. Go figure.

The Best Buy I went to got 10 in stock. I was number 6 in line one hour before 5PM. They sold out in 10 minutes.

So far so good. 3G seems to be working well. Since the iPad is faster, the 3G experience is much better than on the iPhone.


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## Grentz

Congrats Chris!

What kind of speeds are you getting through the 3G?


----------



## Chris Blount

Grentz said:


> Congrats Chris!
> 
> What kind of speeds are you getting through the 3G?


I ran some speed tests and the actual down/up speed is about the same as on the iPhone. The difference is that the iPad renders pages faster. What's also nice is that you don't need the Facebook app on the iPad. The full site looks and functions fine.


----------



## phrelin

I've put a post on my blog entitled The iPad and Me. It's too long to post here. But I do like my iPad. And I have a hunch we'll buy a 3G version for my wife.


----------



## Grentz

Chris Blount said:


> I ran some speed tests and the actual down/up speed is about the same as on the iPhone. The difference is that the iPad renders pages faster. What's also nice is that you don't need the Facebook app on the iPad. The full site looks and functions fine.


So what are the actual numbers like? Sorry, I really don't know how fast 3G is lately on the iPhone either.


----------



## Chris Blount

Grentz said:


> So what are the actual numbers like? Sorry, I really don't know how fast 3G is lately on the iPhone either.


It varies from area to area but around here its 1-2 Mbps download and .5 to 1 Mbps upload.


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## Grentz

Ok, cool. Those are decent speeds.

I was curious too since Anandtech did not seem to happy with the performance over the iPhone (seemed to be about the same for web page loads).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3684/this-just-in-apple-ipad-3g


----------



## phrelin

Chris Blount said:


> It varies from area to area but around here its 1-2 Mbps download and .5 to 1 Mbps upload.


Hmm. I was thinking about getting a second iPad this time with the 3G with those speeds, but then I read this PC Magazine's web site Apple's iPad 3G Dropping Quality on Media Streams:


> Looking for an identical experience when using a "Wi-Fi-only" iPad versus Apple's just-released iPad 3G? Guess again. Electronista is reporting that a number of common applications, including the iPad's YouTube viewer, Netflix, and ABC's TV viewer, are running at downsampled resolutions over the 3G connection--or simply not at all. Previews of video content on the iTunes Store remain unaffected.
> 
> What's to blame for the quality loss? TechCrunch got a hold of an AT&T spokesperson who had a brief, but cryptic response: "It's just a question for Apple." Or is it?
> 
> ...AT&T is known to have called for adaptive video quality on iPhone apps to avoid oversaturating its network, but it has stopped short of making that a requirement on its own. Sling Media noted earlier this year that its 3G-aware version of SlingPlayer had no help from AT&T and that it appeared to have been an unannounced change in policies that allowed it into the App Store.


One of the primary advantages of the iPad with the larger screen is video viewing. Apple, meet the reality of AT&T's 3G network....


----------



## phrelin

Apparently we old people like the iPad. From today's SF Chronicle article IPad appears to be clicking with seniors:


> It's too early to get a demographic breakdown of the people who have bought the new tablet computer - more than half a million of which have been sold. But Apple's new gizmo appears to be resonating well with older adults, who see the 10-inch computer as a device that speaks to their particular needs.
> 
> Max Baumgarten, editor of ElderGadget.com, a site that caters to seniors interested in technology, said he's received a growing amount of positive feedback from readers enjoying their iPads.
> 
> "I think it goes back to the features that correspond well to the needs of seniors: big screen, easy to use, ergonomically friendly and lightweight," Baumgarten said. "I don't know if it's a deliberate move by Apple to make a tablet that appeals specifically to seniors, but that's what they did."


There are some stories of individual seniors discussing their iPads.


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## Chris Blount

I've heard rumors that 3G reception on the iPad is better than the iPhone. Well, I can verify that. I did some tests at work and I'm definitely getting reception in parts of the building I didn't get before.


----------



## Chris Blount

By the way, streaming from Netflix on 3G really isn't all that bad. Sure, there are some artifacts but the PQ is very acceptable.


----------



## funhouse69

I've had an iPhone since the 3G Came out and I Love it but thought what the heck would I want an iPad for that was until I played with one at an Apple Store the other day... As with the iPhone the screen is freaking gorgeous and I immediately thought of my photography. I would have bought one on the spot but they didn't have any in stock. 

After thinking about it I am glad that I didn't since I ended up ordering the 3G Model, I know it is more money but I think that it is worth it for trips and such. Since the data package isn't bad and there isn't any commitment I couldn't resist.

I should just wait until they have them in stock at a store where I wouldn't have to pay any tax but they couldn't give me any kind of ETA so I just ordered on online since it will probably be just as quick and I don't have to hound my local stores. I with they would put the inventory online like they did for iPhone back when the 3G's came out. 

I am pretty excited and believe me patients is NOT in my vocabulary so the waiting will be interesting for sure


----------



## barryb

Chris Blount said:


> I've heard rumors that 3G reception on the iPad is better than the iPhone. Well, I can verify that. I did some tests at work and I'm definitely getting reception in parts of the building I didn't get before.


Confirmed here too Chris. Antenna size matters. 

We now have 3 iPads for work. Two are 3G's and we plan on getting at least one more. We had all three running in our trade show booth during our Vegas convention this past week, and after each day came to a close we took out the 3G's and went around showing people product that they might have missed.

I am happy I no longer need to drag around that laptop anymore!


----------



## Galley

I couldn't be happier with my 64GB 3G model.


----------



## uncouth

I really like my iPad as well, since it really does substitute dragging around a laptop (for my work needs - the iPad is perfect). I have the WiFi model, but utilize on the road via a wifi tether to my phone...

Anxiously waiting for 4.0 to use multitasking. I jb my iPad just to run backgrounder, and while that works fine most of the time - an actual implementation within the base software will be much more effective.


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## funhouse69

I've been waiting for what seems like forever for my iPad there are none to be found locally. I've had a "Reservation" at 2 different stores for a few weeks and one of them told me there were something close to 300 people in front of me and they can't say how many of which one will come in when. 

So I ordered on online a few weeks ago, it said I would see it between the 18th and the 22nd. Well it only shipped from China on the 21st and just now arrived in Anchorage, Alaska... Interesting place for it to enter the US. I wonder how long it will take Fed Ex to get it from there to her. Apple said I would get it on Tuesday but Fed Ex Says Friday.

It really does seem like word of mouth it really helping these things take off. I know I wasn't even considering getting one until I played with one and now they are shipping 200,000 of them a WEEK and that is in the US only. Imagine when they start shipping them world wide. Looks like they have another cash cow


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## funhouse69

After quite the delay my iPad arrived today and I have to say that so far I am loving it! I haven't tried the 3G yet but will sometime this week. 

I got it mainly for photography but is also pretty good games wise. It almost killed me to buy plats vs zombies again but the HD version is so much better!

I will say the battery life is pretty good but it seems to take a while to charge.


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## Chris Blount

Congrats on your new toy. 

You will find that 3G uses quite a bit of battery power. I usually turn the cellular setting completely off when I'm not using it. Wi-Fi only mode is extremely easy on the battery.


----------



## phrelin

For anyone who might be considering an iPad, we bought wifi-only iPads and a 3G MiFi 2200 Mobile Wi-Fi Hotspot Modem.








The concept is fairly straightforward. It's a wireless modem creating a wifi connection that simultaneously supports up to wifi five devices:








The iPad's built-in 3G costs $130 per iPad up front. If you buy the MiFi from Verizon it costs $39 with service. The iPad 3G service is AT&T and is more flexible in pricing. The MiFi shown is Verizon. Sprint offers it and the new 4G Hotspot.

Amazon sells it for as little as 1¢ with service and the Dell Mobility Store offers all three options with the MiFi2200 "free" with service, except you have to pay the $35 activation fee which is waived if you buy it from Verizon. There is an international version (MiFi 2372) offered by others.

Ours works fairly well. Speed tests on the iPad come out about 1.32 Mb/s download and 0.23 Mb/s upload. While that's slow compared to my Comcast service, it is sufficient for anything we use the iPads for when away from home (and double what the last hotel we were in gave us, but that's another story).


----------



## phrelin

In today's Wall Street Journal is an article about the greasy fingerprint problem that notes:


> Chuck Gerba, an environmental microbiologist at the University of Arizona who is studying bacteria on touchscreens, says it's possible for people to contract a disease from sharing a device like an iPad. Personal touchscreen devices aren't as bad as the self-checkout screens in grocery stores, but he knows of rare cases where people contracted a serious skin disease called Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA, from sharing a cell phone with bacteria on it.
> 
> ...The solution that Apple stores recommend is iKlear, a non-toxic liquid cleaner, which its manufacturer Meridrew Enterprises says Apple uses on its own production lines. The Danville, Calif., company sells it in a package with a washable antibacterial microfiber cloth.


This iKlear is news to me. So we ordered a complete kit from Amazon to try.


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## Stewart Vernon

The bigger problem is people who don't wash their hands after doing things like going to the bathroom! :eek2:

If people practice basic hygiene-related behavior, I doubt the transmission of bad germs via touchscreens would be much of an issue.


----------



## Steve

Stewart Vernon said:


> The bigger problem is people who don't wash their hands after doing things like going to the bathroom! :eek2:
> 
> If people practice basic hygiene-related behavior, I doubt the transmission of bad germs via touchscreens would be much of an issue.


 Recently had a miserable bout with a rhino virus, and my MD told me that many human viruses can live on smooth surfaces up to 6 hours. He said most viruses are transmitted by the hands touching the face, so his advice was to avoid doing that, whenever possible.


----------



## harsh

iKlear is a rename of KlearScreen and it has been around for ten years or more. KlearScreen was recommended to me as the solution to use for CRT screens with delicate ARAG anti-glare coatings.


----------



## phrelin

From the San Jose Mercury News:


> Apple announced Monday it has sold more than 2 million iPad devices since the gadget made its debut less than two months ago.
> 
> ...Apple began selling iPads in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Spain, Switzerland and the United Kingdom on Friday. International shipments of the iPad had been delayed as Apple hurried to catch up with demand in the U.S.


PC Magazine reports:


> "Customers around the world are experiencing the magic of iPad, and seem to be loving it as much as we do," said Apple CEO Steve Jobs in a company statement. "We appreciate their patience, and are working hard to build enough iPads for everyone."
> 
> ...It remains to be seen just how many apps from Apple's App Store have been downloaded by the millions of iPad users thus far--around the one-million-sold mark, Apple announced that iPad owners had been busy nabbing more than 12 million apps and 1.5 million eBooks.


Not bad for a device some say has no purpose.


----------



## BubblePuppy

http://mhsnewsonline.com/?p=176


> By over using hand sanitizer and killing off harmful germs, are we killing off the helpful germs as well? There is such thing as over use, and over using sanitizers is very harmful to us.


I just use soap and water to wash my hands, I avoid all "sanitizing" products as much possible. I just don't worry about it. I do wash my hands before I use the restroom, just think what your hands have touched before touching yourself. Think about it.


----------



## dennisj00

I still say it's revolutionary!

I've been in the PC business since there weren't PCs. . . the only other product I've seen this acceptance to is Windows 95 and it wasn't $500+.


----------



## Steve

Based on the sale of over a billion dollars worth of iPads in the first two months, one analyst raised his forecast for Apple stock $20, to $340!

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65052A20100601


----------



## Stewart Vernon

dennisj00 said:


> I still say it's revolutionary!
> 
> I've been in the PC business since there weren't PCs. . . the only other product I've seen this acceptance to is Windows 95 and it wasn't $500+.


To be fair... Windows 95 originally retailed for more than $200 (non-upgrade price) and that only got you the operating system. For $500 you get the iPad hardware as well as the operating system


----------



## durl

phrelin said:


> Not bad for a device some say has no purpose.


People will most definitely buy something that has no purpose. I give you the Pet Rock.



> In 1975, Gary Dahl working as an advertising executive at the time, launched the sale of the pet rock which quickly transformed him into a multi-millionaire. This enormous profit is much more impressive considering it only took him six months to achieve his multi-millionaire status and the extremely low cost of the product.
> 
> The pet rock sold for $3.95 and estimates state Dahl sold over 5 million of his pet rocks in a six month period. Even more, each pet rock was purchased for a few pennies and Dahl estimated that the packaging and accompanying manual cost him under 30 cents per rock in bulk to produce. Therefore, assuming incidentals and delivery cost Dahl another 65 cents per rock, then Dahl was profiting 3 dollars per rock. With these totals Dahl earned over 15 million dollars during a six month period in 1975 which would be estimated at $56,166,419.02 today. - http://www.petsdo.com/blog/pet-rock-made-man-multi-millionaire-6-months-lives


I agree that it's a cool looking device, though. You know, I wonder how many Pet Rocks would have been sold if they had a Apple logo on them?


----------



## barryb

Looks like AT&T is going to "tweak" their data plans.



> New data plans
> According to AT&T's press release, as of June 7, 2010, the current iPhone and iPad data plans-$30 per month for unlimited data on either the iPhone or iPad, or $15 for up to 250MB of data in a month for the iPad-are being replaced by two new plans that apply to both devices (as well as to other smartphones):


Hit the link for the full story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/20...eaksmobiledataplansprovidesustetheringdetails


----------



## phrelin

Stewart Vernon said:


> To be fair... Windows 95 originally retailed for more than $200 (non-upgrade price) and that only got you the operating system. For $500 you get the iPad hardware as well as the operating system


That's something people just don't get. You not only get the OS, you get the hardware and access to literally thousands of Apps (programs) which are free or retail for under $10 (yes, some cost more) and which the OS creator monitors and removes from the shelves of the only store if it won't work properly now or is not likely to work properly after the next OS update. It simply is not the Microsoft model in any way.


----------



## Tulsacoker

Yep as I tell some people at work who laugh at me for getting an Ipad....I just tell them you won't understand it until you get on and use it.


----------



## phrelin

From the AP via Yahoo:


> Good news for the news business: Companies are paying newspapers and magazines up to five times as much to place ads in their iPad applications as what similar advertising costs on regular websites.
> 
> ...early evidence suggests the iPad is at least offering publishers a way to get more money out of advertisers. That bolsters the hope that portable touch-screen computers could start turning the economics of digital advertising in publishers' favor.
> 
> "I think it will redefine publishing and also redefine how advertisers connect with our audience," said Lou Cona, executive vice president at Conde Nast Media Group, the privately held publisher of such magazines as Vogue, GQ and Wired.


While I hate it that they call them "portable touch-screen computers," I'm glad to see that magazine and newspaper Apps are already creating market value for the companies involved.


----------



## Lee L

I played with an iPad a little yesterday while waiting for my a service and eventual replacement of my iPhone 3G and wowee zowee, it was pretty cool.

That thing is zippy. Web browsing was quite nice and way way faster on a few sites I check every day from the iPhone. Tried the Engadget app and it was soo much faster than on the iPhone also. it would also make the new AVSForum app and potentially DBSTalk app very sweet too.

Man that thing is thin too. In fact, I'm not sure how much thinner it would need to ever be or even could be without being made of carbon fiber or something.


----------



## Chris Blount

You know whats interesting. Theoretically if you already have an iPhone or other smart phone, you can sell it and purchase a cheap flip no feature phone for calls and use the iPad for everything else. This would keep you from paying for 2 data plans (assuming you have the 3G model).


----------



## BubblePuppy

Chris Blount said:


> You know whats interesting. Theoretically if you already have an iPhone or other smart phone, you can sell it and purchase a cheap flip no feature phone for calls and use the iPad for everything else. This would keep you from paying for 2 data plans (assuming you have the 3G model).


That might incur a ETF if you cancel a data plan. Might want to check on that.


----------



## dennisj00

Good idea, but we have 2 iPhones and 1 iPad. . . so the iPad isn't always around. It's a wifi model and we haven't seen a big need for the 3g for it.


----------



## funhouse69

You make a good point, since I got my iPad 3G I find myself using my iPhone less and less. Since I have an iPhone 3G and my contract is up I was all ready to jump on the new iPhone when it comes out in the next month or so now I am wondering if that is a good idea or not. I'm sure the new phone will be awesome and everybody will want it but how much better is it going to be over the 3Gs and the iPad?

The iPad is awesome, as mentioned it is very snappy, the screen is un-freaking-believable. My only complaint is that it is very, VERY reflective which means a ton of glare. I got one of the Anti-Glare Screen protectors for it and it does take away a tiny bit of resolution (makes things look slightly grainy) but keep in mind I am very picky and I still think that it is worth putting the protector on since it also helps with finger prints. 

Now what to do about the phone... While I don't bring the iPad with me every place I go I do have it with me / accessible most of the time so it is a tough call.


----------



## funhouse69

So how many people bought an iPad 3G and are unhappy about AT&T's change in Data Plans? I know I probably wouldn't have bought one if the Unlimited package wasn't going to exist 2 weeks after I bought it. This is so perfect when they are coming out with more and more data hungry applications - Coincidence? I think not!

Sure I know I can keep my unlimited data plan if I basically subscribe to it on an Auto-Renew Basis. Well that isn't going to happen since I wanted to add it when I needed it. 

I have a friend of mine that got one when they first came out that is trying to get apple to take it back saying that this was nothing more than a "Bait and Switch" which seems to be a pretty common feeling from what I am seeing. 

I wonder how long it will be before the law suits start


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I don't really use 3G much at all on my iPhone. In fact, the last 6 months of 3G data usage for me does not even add up to 50MB total! So I bet in the nearly 2 years I haven't yet used the 200MB tier worth of data in total.

I tend to use my iPhone most in WiFi hotpots or at home... and use the 3G only when there is no other option. If I had an iPad I'd use it much the same way... so I'd much rather have the $15 plan anyway to save that money.


----------



## dennisj00

I've said it's revolutionary and while this may not be revolutionary it's pretty much changing a daily habit. I've subscribed to our local paper and read it from cover to cover since I was a kid. Even through college when I was out of town.

I started checking and it's only available on Kindle devices ( not the Kindle reader, yet) but I found the e-edition was available for 3.99 a month for current subscribers (5.99 a month for non-subscribers). It's a flash edition so it doesn't work on the iPad. . . they say the iPad reader is a few weeks away. So I tried the 3 day free trial.

I can read it on my desktop or laptop in any light conditions with no readers ( yes, I'm an old fxxx) and in just a few minutes I can download a PDF and read it on the iPad!!

Something different is every picture is in color but I'm not sure all the advertising supplements are included. (could be a good or bad thing)

I'll try Sunday's edition but I have a feeling on Monday, I'll be cancelling the daily -- possibly keep Saturday / Sunday for a while and go with the e-edition until 

In the scheme of things this will save me 5 or 6 bucks a month, and a few trees along the way. And the pile of recycling the daily paper.


----------



## Phil T

I recently decided I wanted an iPad rather than the new iPhone 4. I called around today and no Apple or Best Buy stores have any stock in the Denver area. Those things must be selling like crazy. I ordered one at the Apple store near me and they said it could be up to two weeks. I decided to go with the wifi 16G model. I want to use it on vacation to upload my pictures and since I already have an Iphone 3GS, I don't think I will need 3G.


----------



## dennisj00

The last number I heard was they were selling one every THREE seconds!


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## phrelin

From the Wall Street Journal:


> Apple Inc. sold its three millionth iPad Monday, 80 days after the tablet computer's introduction in the U.S. and giving further insight on how the device will boost current-quarter results for the tech giant.
> 
> Some analysts last month projected about half that would be sold in Apple's fiscal third quarter, which ends next week. They went on sale April 3 in the U.S. and become available internationally at the end of May, weeks later than planned after the stronger-than-expected U.S. debut.


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## dmurphy

Broke down yesterday and bought one. 64gb with 3G. This thing rocks!


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## Phil T

Where did you get one? Still no joy waiting on my order from Apple.


----------



## Herdfan

I was able to get one for my dad for father's day.

Checked the BestBuy website on Tuesday and Friday mornings for my local store's stock as they get deliveries on Monday and Thursday nights. It showed available and I was there at store opening.


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## dmurphy

Phil T said:


> Where did you get one? Still no joy waiting on my order from Apple.


Got it at the best buy in sw Vegas - I'm here for a conference (about 2000 miles from home). I called on a lark and they had 5 in stock!


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## Phil T

This morning I checked the Best Buy stores with no luck. About 4:00 this afternoon I checked again and found a store that showed some in stock. I am typing this post on one now. I takes a little getting used to but I am getting the hang of it.


----------



## dmurphy

Phil T said:


> This morning I checked the Best Buy stores with no luck. About 4:00 this afternoon I checked again and found a store that showed some in stock. I am typing this post on one now. I takes a little getting used to but I am getting the hang of it.


Great news! I love mine so far......


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I gotta laugh a little...

Yesterday on a return flight from Philly coming home...I saw 3 different folks with an iPad sitting very near me - one user was next to me. 

I asked them how they all liked their iPad, and they all said they liked it.

What I found somewhat funny...remembering that these people were not friends of each other, and actually didn't even know each other at all...is that 2 of them were using their devices to read through digital comic books, and the third was playing with some kind of drawing software...

All 3 users did this for the entire length of the flight. :eek2:

One of the comic book readers was next to me, and I asked him what else he used the iPad for...and he said "mostly this".

I thought to myself - about 3 grand of new technology sitting there with these guys in total, and not 1 of these folks used it for anything significant.

1.7 million of these sold so far. Truly impressive. Really...it is.

I also seem to recall that 5 million pet rocks were sold in 6 months.

OK. 

I'm not trying to diminish how neat the iPad is...it has great graphics, a nice size, and some neat capabilities. I'm just wondering that based on what I saw yesterday...if it will join the pet rock as a "fad". I'm sure there are plenty of other folks who use it to its potential...but this rare observation of 3 users on a plane was certainly "interesting".


----------



## phrelin

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm not trying to diminish how neat the iPad is...it has great graphics, a nice size, and some neat capabilities. I'm just wondering that based on what I saw yesterday...if it will join the pet rock as a "fad". I'm sure there are plenty of other folks who use it to its potential...but this rare observation of 3 users on a plane was certainly "interesting".


Truthfully, there are still many homes in which the only computers present are in a closet. People buy stuff they will never use.

As I've said before, figure out what you're going to use it for before buying an iPad. They aren't free and they aren't useful for everyone.

It just depends. We do have a cell phone - a Jitterbug - that we plug into the cigarette lighter on average once a month when we go further than 10 miles from our house. A smart phone would serve virtually no purpose in our lives. Two of our age 50-ish kids couldn't survive without one. But the iPad is a different gadget.

I use mine enough for reading books that I have to charge the battery about every 5 days. I do few other things on it, though I downloaded the DBSTalk app yesterday. It's a great convenience, but it is not a necessity. And nobody can demand my attention immediately on it like a smart phone.


----------



## Phil T

After using mine a little more then a week I have to say I really enjoy it. I am a web surfing geek and really enjoy the size and way I can size the text to my liking. Even though the is now a cool DBSTalk app I find myself surfing the old way on the web probably, because it is what I am used to.

I usually sit in the family room with my laptop while my wife watches her shows in the evenings. The ipad fits on the table I front of me and with my incase it looks like a book. I don't have to dig out the laptop, plug it in and boot it up. The iPad just sits there and i have instant web and e-mail access. When I head for bed I plug it in and leave it on the night stand. It does seem to give me double the battery life of my Iphone and usually charge it every other day.

I do hope they come up with a way to easily print e-mail and web pages to my wireless printer.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

phrelin said:


> *As I've said before, figure out what you're going to use it for before buying an iPad. They aren't free and they aren't useful for everyone.*
> 
> It just depends. We do have a cell phone - a Jitterbug - that we plug into the cigarette lighter on average once a month when we go further than 10 miles from our house. A smart phone would serve virtually no purpose in our lives. Two of our age 50-ish kids couldn't survive without one. But the iPad is a different gadget.
> 
> I use mine enough for reading books that I have to charge the battery about every 5 days. I do few other things on it, though I downloaded the DBSTalk app yesterday. It's a great convenience, but it is not a necessity. And nobody can demand my attention immediately on it like a smart phone.


Great points indeed.


----------



## phrelin

This subject is all over the web, but some key points. First, from iPad Sales May Reach 2 Million Per Month:


> In the June 22 announcement [of 3 million sold], Apple CEO Steve Jobs said, "People are loving iPad as it becomes a part of their daily lives. We're working hard to get this magical product into the hands of even more people around the world, including those in nine more countries next month."


Then from Digitimes Systems:


> Apple's monthly iPad orders to Taiwan makers surpassed two million units for July and the volume are expected to maintain above the level in the future, according to Mingchi Kuo, senior analyst for Digitimes Research.
> 
> Apple is estimated to have outsourced 2.3-2.35 million iPads to Taiwan players in July with 58-60% for the Wi-Fi and 3G hybrid model despite Wi-Fi only models having stronger sales in the first half of 2010, Kuo noted.


And this wry comment from The Street:


> The initial success of the iPad disproves the notion that consumers had little need for a gadget that fit awkwardly between a smartphone and a notebook. But even if the iPad is a toy, it seems to be a popular one.
> 
> Some analysts have questioned whether the iPad's popularity would flash brightly and then fade as sales struggle to reach a mass market buyer, beyond Apple's loyal core of fanatics.


And from AppleInsider:


> [Kaufman Bros. analyst Shaw] Wu also raised his forecast for iPad sales to 3.5 million in the June quarter, up from 3.3 million. He also expects sales of 10 million units in calendar 2010, up from 9.7 million. He said checks indicated stronger-than-expected demand for Apple's tablet, which will be offset by still constrained, but improving availability.


I think it's surpassed the point of being considered an expensive "Pet Rock" fad.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

phrelin said:


> I think it's surpassed the point of being considered an expensive "Pet Rock" fad.


Not until it surpasses 5 million in 6 months actually... 

Even at 10 million, it will remain a niche product.

There's nothing wrong with that, and there are many things neat about the iPad, but it's also easy to forget that these numbers are tiny compared to the overall computing world, as well as mobile computing world (smart phones included).

As not to diminish the enthusiasm for the product...please continue along the lines of all the things users like....there are certainly a number of "neat" and "positive" things to be said. I was actually impressed by the build quality.


----------



## Steve

Now that Apple has "legitimized" the form factor, when the Droid "knock-offs" start appearing at half the price, probably later this year, it wouldn't surprise me if tablet sales surged ahead of all PC sales (desktop + laptop + netbook) by Q4 of 2011, if not sooner.

Dell and HP (and Intel and AMD) have to be seriously worried about this, IMHO, because their competitors in this form factor might not only be each other, but "appliance" companies like LG and Samsung, or phone manufacturers like Motorola and HTC.


----------



## BubblePuppy

Steve said:


> Now that Apple has "legitimized" the form factor, when the Droid "knock-offs" start appearing at half the price, probably later this year, it wouldn't surprise me if tablet sales surged ahead of all PC sales (desktop + laptop + netbook) by Q4 of 2011, if not sooner.
> 
> Dell and HP (and Intel and AMD) have to be seriously worried about this, IMHO, because their competitors in this form factor might not only be each other, but "appliance" companies like LG and Samsung, or phone manufacturers like Motorola and HTC.


I'll only consider a tablet if it can do what my laptop can do, until then my phone can do alot of things the ipad can't.


----------



## Steve

BubblePuppy said:


> I'll only consider a tablet if it can do what my laptop can do, until then my phone can do alot of things the ipad can't.


Agree. People who need full-fledged keyboards won't be using these.

I see the surge in sales coming from purchasers who want a 2nd or 3d computing appliance in the home, for less sophisticated computer users/family members who only want to browse the web and read e-mails. I also assume these will come with built-in webcams that will allow grandparents to easily see their grandchildren. And then there's the whole university market.

With Apple predicted to sell 2 million of these a month by the end of the year, I can see at least that many "clones" being sold as well, similar to how Droid phones outsold iPhones Q1 of this year.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I still think people are looking at the iPad wrong... expecting it to be a "notebook killer".

I see the iPad more as being a potential replacement for:

1. Actual books
2. Actual pads of paper (note pads)

And similar things like that... People can carry around their entire library of books similar to their iPod for music... and many books will actually be in "actual" size on the iPad even.

I've made the argument that the iPad might be a great thing to introduce into the public schools as a replacement for textbooks. Instead of buying new textbooks for all the kids every few years when they wear out... but iPads and then use e-textbooks.

The cost would come WAY down on iPads if something like this were to happen... and while the initial buy-in for a school would be expensive, they wouldn't have to re-buy an iPad for several years and could always have up-to-date textbooks.

The door then also opens to having the iPad used for in-class educational movies as well.. and you could even (with headphones) have groups in the same class watching different levels of instructional videos.

The iPad also has the advantage of being much easier to "cripple" to use in a school environment than a notebook computer and keep the non-educational games and Web sites restricted access.


----------



## dennisj00

I agree that books, magazines, and education in general will see a tremendous change once the publishers get their content ready. I already read my local daily paper via PDF with no special app (it's coming), but I can open the e-edition on my laptop or desktop (it's flash), download the PDF for off-line reading, and transfer it to the iPad quicker than I can retrieve the paper from the street.

I can't imagine the advantage of the hundreds of textbooks (some huge), reference books, technical magazines and calculators (mine was a slide rule) that I had to lug around during my four years of engineering degree all fitting on the iPad.

But I really think the explosion in sales will come when the custom apps hit the field and every doctor, technician, sales rep, etc. will be using an iPad.

(posted from my iPad)


----------



## hdtvfan0001

dennisj00 said:


> I agree that books, magazines, and education in general will see a tremendous change once the publishers get their content ready. I already read my local daily paper via PDF with no special app (it's coming), but I can open the e-edition on my laptop or desktop (it's flash), download the PDF for off-line reading, and transfer it to the iPad quicker than I can retrieve the paper from the street.
> 
> I can't imagine the advantage of the hundreds of textbooks (some huge), reference books, technical magazines and calculators (mine was a slide rule) that I had to lug around during my four years of engineering degree all fitting on the iPad.
> 
> But I really think the explosion in sales will come when the custom apps hit the field and every doctor, technician, sales rep, etc. will be using an iPad.


The electronic books issue is most interesting...

My wife is a book-a-holic prolific reader of hard cover novels.

Because of that, I am regularly and repeatedly accompanying her as the book inventory "pack-mule" for numerous author book signings. Almost all of these authors are NY Times best sellers.

The reason I mention all this is that these 15-20 authors (and in turn their publishers) seem to have a united and different view of electronic books.

Their consensus uniform perspective that these major best-selling authors and their major publishers all convey in their presentations attended in 2010 indicate that "electronic books will never be more than a 15% market share niche market". In addition, they have virtually unanimously publicly stated" there will be a market for this format to be sure, but publishers do not see anything more than a limited niche market for books well into the next decade." Not one of them owned a Kindle or iPad.

No doubt some users will find eBooks enticing and a preference. My point is that I do not see it as a driving force to gain iPad adoption. If its a key need, the sub $150 Kindle is far more attractive for this hot button.

Where I see a great potential for the iPad is applications that leverage the device-specific attributes of the iPad itself. That is what grew the iPhone, and likely what will advance the iPad. What does the iPad do that other devices don't? Applications written to respond to that question will trigger iPad adoption in the greatest numbers.

The iPad is neat indeed, and appears well constructed.

The WIN7-based devices are quickly approaching for their release.

How all this plays out in the next 12 months should also be interesting.


----------



## phrelin

Having already become an avid iPad Kindle-App book reader, I can tell you that most of the NYT best seller publishers' stuff is already available through Amazon. Some observations:

It is not taking me longer to read a book on the iPad, contrary to a recent news article.
Publishers and authors take note: I buy more books more frequently because I have the iPad with the Kindle App; I currently have nine books on the iPad, am reading one, and have three more to read.
Right now, Apple's iBook offering is comparatively sparse and more difficult to navigate than Amazon.
Yes there are several other readers out there including the Kindle. We started out with a Sony Reader when it first came out, but it just didn't work for us.

As near as I can tell, the Kindle DX is the only dedicated reader with a "page" comparable in size to the iPad. Out of principle I won't consider a Kindle because I would have to pay for hardware for Sprint, the only big name in the cell world I'd have to drive 50 miles to get access to because Sprint cherry-picked the urban areas in the beginning saying "to h*ll with you the rest of America, you don't deserve access."

As serious Amazon customers, we wrote them about this when the Kindle came out. They responded by pointing out one can use wifi. I responded by saying take the Sprint related hardware out, cut the price $20, and we're in. No response to that.

Finally, I can't think of a single reason one would buy a dedicated reader over the iPad except for price (the price on the DX has dropped to $379, the wifi only version of the iPad starts at $499) or unless one really isn't technology oriented.

The fact that I can be reading outside under the redwoods, stop reading, check DBSTalk postings and my email, browse news on the web, check stock prices and potentially buy or sell through Scottrade, then go back to reading without getting up or putting down my iPad is a very real advantage over a Kindle DX.

I'm still waiting for the "coming soon" Sling App for the iPad to watch TV though I could use the iPhone version.

Finally, if I want to run a Win 7 application while away from my home computer, I'll use my laptop.

While I respect the need for a heavy duty OS on a keyboard-and-mouse-equipped computer for certain uses, I see the iPhone OS and Android as the 21st Century competitors in the OS business once dominated by Microsoft.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

phrelin said:


> Having already become an avid iPad Kindle-App book reader, I can tell you that most of the NYT best seller publishers' stuff is already available through Amazon. Some observations:


Available and adoption are 2 entirely different things.

I can still get eBooks for popular titles for Windows Mobile v5, yet almost no one will purchase those since that operating software is no longer supported.

The point was the adoption *rate*, not *if* it will be adopted.

The experts in the publishing world, as well as the authors themselves, are quite unified in their views that 15% or so will be the peak adoption rate for eBooks using the iPad , Kindle, or any other medium available at this time.


----------



## phrelin

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Available and adoption are 2 entirely different things.
> 
> I can still get eBooks for popular titles for Windows Mobile v5, yet almost no one will purchase those since that operating software is no longer supported.
> 
> The point was the adoption *rate*, not *if* it will be adopted.
> 
> The experts in the publishing world, as well as the authors themselves, are quite unified in their views that 15% or so will be the peak adoption rate for eBooks using the iPad , Kindle, or any other medium available at this time.


IMHO they have their heads in the sand.

Look, I'm an old guy and tend to be an early adopter. But our local book store just closed. Our used book store doesn't really need 10 more copies of a 2005 NYT best seller.

I cannot imagine that in 2020 my granddaughters and their peers who are already glued to their smart phones - they who watch TV on those phones and their computers - will prefer to clutter their rooms and ultimately their homes with "pop books" as we have.

College textbooks in ebook form are already out there even as relatively inexpensive "rentals." If they experience that, I doubt they will go back to buying paperback "pop books" or even hard bound ones.

Nor can I imagine they will be buying a lot of unsearchable paper reference books.

And many old books that qualify as "great literature" are available in ebook form for free.

I look at my house and imagine how it would be if I didn't have walls with shelves full of either all my VHS tapes or all my books. While neither are useless I think both are equally out-of-date.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

phrelin said:


> IMHO they have their heads in the sand.


That's always a possibility.

Then again, I would have thought the HDTV adoption rate would have been near 100% by now after all these years and the mandated death of analog signals...there's a way to go on that.

The 15% adoption rate may/many not be conservative....but I suspect the niche label will still fit (at least until it surpasses 50%). I don't see that happening.


----------



## phrelin

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again, I would have thought the HDTV adoption rate would have been near 100% by now after all these years and the mandated death of analog signals...there's a way to go on that.


In my oldest granddaughter's home, her mom and significant other just finally bought an HDTV. My granddaughter, on the other hand, has been watching streaming TV. In my younger granddaughter's home, they don't have any TV service (not even OTA), but rather watch streaming TV and BD.

I've never said this on this forum before, but the time may come when a whole generation will be wondering why anyone watched something called a "TV" and will be puzzling why I thought it was something important.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

phrelin said:


> In my oldest granddaughter's home, her mom and significant other just finally bought an HDTV. My granddaughter, on the other hand, has been watching streaming TV. In my younger granddaughter's home, they don't have any TV service (not even OTA), but rather watch streaming TV and BD.
> 
> I've never said this on this forum before, but *the time may come when a whole generation will be wondering why anyone watched something called a "TV" and will be puzzling why I thought it was something important*.


Blasphemy !rolling

We now return you to your regularly scheduled iPad discussion network...


----------



## Stuart Sweet

In the future there will be no TVs, no computers, no phones, no faxes... just appliances of various sizes that deliver communication, information, productivity and entertainment. They will all work the same but the display sizes will differ.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> In the future there will be no TVs, no computers, no phones, no faxes... just appliances of various sizes that deliver communication, information, productivity and entertainment. They will all work the same but the display sizes will differ.


Vulcan Mind Meld will subplant that... 

Please don't tell me there's an app for that...


----------



## dennisj00

I too think the publishers and some writers have their heads in the sand. Asking them about the coming impact of e-readers and getting a 15% figure is like asking the music industry in 2000 about the impact of downloading individual songs from sites like iTunes.

The publishers have their manufacturing infrastructure to support and their existing history / projections of profit margins from hard copy books. Their crystal balls are still cloudy on e-editions and they're not ready to give up the hard copy.

Another current difference in the iPad - color. Pages also are no longer limited to illustrations or pictures. True multimedia video / audio can be included without the dvd in the pouch.

Like Phrelin, today with the iPad, I've read the local paper, read the USA Today / NYT headline articles, checked the weather from several sources including my personal weather station, checked the stock market, the Astronomy picture of the day, watched a Ken Burns documentary on Netflix (our TVs are inaccessible today from some redecorating), read a couple chapters of 'A Salty Piece of Land', browsed DBSTalk and several other sites, checked a camera I have installed on a friends firetower, played a few games of HD Pinball, and listened to a couple hours of the local NPR station. (and shared it with my wife!) (and I did a few things on the iPhone, also!)

Try that on any other e-reader!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

dennisj00 said:


> I too think the publishers and some writers have their heads in the sand. Asking them about the coming impact of e-readers and getting a 15% figure is like asking the music industry in 2000 about the impact of downloading individual songs from sites like iTunes.
> 
> The publishers have their manufacturing infrastructure to support and their existing history / projections of profit margins from hard copy books. Their crystal balls are still cloudy on e-editions and they're not ready to give up the hard copy.
> 
> Another current difference in the iPad - color. Pages also are no longer limited to illustrations or pictures. True multimedia video / audio can be included without the dvd in the pouch.
> 
> Like Phrelin, today with the iPad,* I've read the local paper, read the USA Today / NYT headline articles, checked the weather from several sources including my personal weather station, checked the stock market, the Astronomy picture of the day, watched a Ken Burns documentary on Netflix (our TVs are inaccessible today from some redecorating), read a couple chapters of 'A Salty Piece of Land', browsed DBSTalk and several other sites*, checked a camera I have installed on a friends firetower, played a few games of HD Pinball, and listened to a couple hours of the local NPR station. (and shared it with my wife!)
> 
> *Try that on any other e-reader*!


Guess I'm not as easily impressed....I could do much of that (and in some cases *did* do that) on my Ipaq PocketPC 8 years ago...granted it was slower...but I could do it.

That said...the iPad graphic presentation and screen resolution are quite impressive, and certainly strong candidates for all sorts of new or improved applications. The units themselves also seem to be well constructed.


----------



## dennisj00

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That said...the iPaD graphic presentation and screen resolution are quite impressive, and certainly strong candidates for all sorts of new or improved applications. The units themselves also seem to be well constructed.


Fixed your post. Granted, I did SOME of these on a Pocket PC a few years ago (mostly played solitare) and I did MOST of these on my iPhone before the iPad.

But you can only do ONE of these on most eReaders! (read a book)

And yes, I can do all of these on my laptop . . .well, not some of them because of the 'Apps'. But my laptop can't go for days on a charge and is also quite warm on my lap.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

dennisj00 said:


> Fixed your post. Granted, I did SOME of these on a Pocket PC a few years ago (mostly played solitare) and I did MOST of these on my iPhone before the iPad.
> 
> But you can only do ONE of these on most eReaders! (read a book)
> 
> And yes, I can do all of these on my laptop . . .well, not some of them because of the 'Apps'. But my laptop can't go for days on a charge and is also quite warm on my lap.


Thanks...fixed the post too.

I see alot of upside in the iPad, and am generally impressed with how its put together, presents content on its screen, etc.

Where I think they missed the boat is true multitasking. That leaves open the door for a WIN7-based devices to compete IMHO. We'll see how things go as the new HP and other tablet units start to emerge and emphasize their strengths in comparison. I do know that they can't compete all that well with Apple's marketing savvy.


----------



## dennisj00

If ALL of the windows tablet manufacturers got together to build their devices to use the same 'apps' / books and create a common 'store' to make it as easy to download 'apps' / tunes / books, there might be a chance.

But that's what fragmented the PocketPC market.

In addition to it not happening, I'm afraid they're several years behind.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

dennisj00 said:


> If ALL of the windows tablet manufacturers got together to build their devices to use the same 'apps' / books and create a common 'store' to make it as easy to download 'apps' / tunes / books, there might be a chance.
> 
> But that's what fragmented the PocketPC market.
> 
> In addition to it not happening, *I'm afraid they're several years behind*.


Its closer than you think.

I had this one in my hands to play with at CES back in January...

http://gizmodo.com/5442200/hps-windows-7-slate-device-revealed-by-steve-ballmer

http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/06/21/toshiba.resurrects.libretto.with.w100.tablet/

There are more out there...

But of course....can those compete with iPad?

That is TBD.


----------



## dshu82

Phil T said:


> I usually sit in the family room with my laptop while my wife watches her shows in the evenings. The ipad fits on the table I front of me and with my incase it looks like a book. I don't have to dig out the laptop, plug it in and boot it up. The iPad just sits there and i have instant web and e-mail access. When I head for bed I plug it in and leave it on the night stand. It does seem to give me double the battery life of my Iphone and usually charge it every other day.


This is exactly how I envisioned using one. My wife and I both have iPhone 3GS and my wife usually has that out and her work laptop in the living room. I use my iPhone outside the house, rarely on the wireless, so the iPad's size and portability are what intrigues me.


----------



## dennisj00

hdtvfan0001 said:


> But of course....can those compete with iPad?
> 
> That is TBD.


Don't get me wrong, i'm very interested in the windows devices. But check back when they are selling +1 Million a month. Look at the Zune, never touched one, but I understand it's a great device. It just takes more than releasing great hardware.

(posted from my iPad)


----------



## hdtvfan0001

dennisj00 said:


> Don't get me wrong, i'm very interested in the windows devices. But check back when they are selling +1 Million a month. Look at the Zune, never touched one, but I understand it's a great device. It just takes more than releasing great hardware.
> 
> *(posted from my iPad*)


 

I'm with ya.


----------



## klang

phrelin said:


> Finally, I can't think of a single reason one would buy a dedicated reader over the iPad except for price (the price on the DX has dropped to $379, the wifi only version of the iPad starts at $499) or unless one really isn't technology oriented.


My wife and I have lots of Apple products but we are hanging on to our Kindle's for now. iPad is practically useless in the sun. Reading on the beach or by the pool is very difficult on the iPad. Fortunately they can both access the same material from Amazon and it isn't too bad to switch back and forth.


----------



## dennisj00

The NY Times reported today that over the last 3 months, Amazon has sold more e-books for their Kindle than hardcover editions (including hardcovers that aren't in e-editions). For every 143 e-editions, they sold 100 hardcovers.

Both Amazon and Barnes & Noble saw a big increase in sales after reducing prices on their readers. The article also acknowledges part of the increase came from iPads and smartphones. 

I think that's already greater than the 15% estimate mentioned earlier in this thread!

I also read the article on my iPad.


----------



## Steve

dennisj00 said:


> Don't get me wrong, i'm very interested in the windows devices. But check back when they are selling +1 Million a month [...]


Microsoft had a very sexy tablet OS in Courier that could certainly compete with the iPad OS or Android, IMO, but has elected to shelve it "at this time".

Instead, they're trying to convince tablet hardware manufacturers to license Windows, instead of using free Android and it's thousands of apps. I wonder which tablet OS and price point the consumer will prefer? :scratchin


----------



## dmurphy

klang said:


> My wife and I have lots of Apple products but we are hanging on to our Kindle's for now. iPad is practically useless in the sun. Reading on the beach or by the pool is very difficult on the iPad. Fortunately they can both access the same material from Amazon and it isn't too bad to switch back and forth.


I have both a Kindle and an iPad.

The Kindle has several distinct advantages when it comes to reading books -

* It weighs less.
* eInk is easier on the eyes, especially over a several-hour period of reading.
* It's readable in the sun
* Multi-week battery life
* It costs a lot less so I'm less worried about, say, leaving it on a beach chair.

For now, I'm planning a dual-device strategy. I fly all over the country for work quite a bit, and both the Kindle & iPad fit in my laptop carryon just fine - the Kindle adds very little additional weight so it's fine for schlepping around with me.

Of course, the iPad does so much more than just books - and that's why I love it. But for books, I still think the Kindle has an advantage ...


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## davemayo

I'm having a bad day with electronics.

All of the sudden, today, my iPad won't connect to the internet. The iPad has worked flawlessly from day 1. Today, I can connect to my wireless network, but don't get a network ID assigned to the iPad. No internet connection.

Anyone else have this problem and/or know of a fix?

Thanks.

BTW: My laptop and my wife's iPhone connect to the our wireless network no problem. Just the iPad has the problem.


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## funhouse69

Just to be sure we cover all of the bases did you turn off then turn back on the wireless within the iPad? If so how about rebooting it...

I've noticed with my iPad that it completely disconnects from the network when it is not in use and must reestablish the connection once you activate it.

Final one just again to cover all of the bases would be to reboot your wireless router just to make sure that isn't the issue. 

I've had a similar issue at my work and it was resolved by rebooting the router even though other devices seemed to be working fine.

If not do you have access to another wireless network just to try?

Anything is possible so it could have died but test everything before returning it to the mothership. They will make you test / check everything anyway. 

Let us know what happens.


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## Chris Blount

funhouse69 said:


> Just to be sure we cover all of the bases did you turn off then turn back on the wireless within the iPad? If so how about rebooting it...
> 
> I've noticed with my iPad that it completely disconnects from the network when it is not in use and must reestablish the connection once you activate it.
> 
> Final one just again to cover all of the bases would be to reboot your wireless router just to make sure that isn't the issue.
> 
> I've had a similar issue at my work and it was resolved by rebooting the router even though other devices seemed to be working fine.
> 
> If not do you have access to another wireless network just to try?
> 
> Anything is possible so it could have died but test everything before returning it to the mothership. They will make you test / check everything anyway.
> 
> Let us know what happens.


After trying all that, another option is to totally wipe the iPad and reload the firmware. Then do a restore.

While it could be hardware, its always a good idea to cover all software bases first before contacting Apple. They will basically do the same thing.


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## phrelin

Also make sure it isn't something involved in your wireless by trying to connect to someone else's wifi signal.


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## davemayo

Thanks for the replies. Looks like it may be a problem with my router. My other devices now won't connect at all. I brought the iPad to work and it connects with our WiFi network here.


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## funhouse69

Man first you with your wireless problems and no me, my iPad won't charge anymore 

I am at work and have my charger that isn't working but has worked since day one, I am hoping that its a cable or charger but won't know until I get home. I am not sure that is going to make a difference since it will charge my iPhone.

When I connect it to my computer it doesn't even recognize that its connected. 

I've power cycled it and it detects that it is connected only once and says not charging as if the charger isn't powerful enough but this is the 10W Charger that came with the iPad - Arrgghh!!! :eek2:


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## phrelin

hdtvfan0001 said:


> dennisj00 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If ALL of the windows tablet manufacturers got together to build their devices to use the same 'apps' / books and create a common 'store' to make it as easy to download 'apps' / tunes / books, there might be a chance.
> 
> But that's what fragmented the PocketPC market.
> 
> In addition to it not happening, I'm afraid they're several years behind.
> 
> 
> 
> Its closer than you think.
> 
> I had this one in my hands to play with at CES back in January...
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5442200/hps-windows-7-slate-device-revealed-by-steve-ballmer
> 
> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/06/21/toshiba.resurrects.libretto.with.w100.tablet/
> 
> There are more out there...
> 
> But of course....can those compete with iPad?
> 
> That is TBD.
Click to expand...

Here's the kind of news that drives people around the bend:


> Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer has promised a Microsoft Windows tablet computer to join the burgeoning market led by Apple's new iPad.
> 
> "You'll see new slates with Windows on them. You'll see them this Christmas," he told an audience of students, staff and journalists Tuesday at the London School of Economics.
> 
> ...Ballmer admits Windows 7 isn't fully optimized for the tablets. "We're not going to do a major revamp of Windows 7 for slate applications; that will come in the next version (Windows 8)," Ballmer said at the UK Tech Days conference.


Huh?


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## Steve

phrelin said:


> Here's the kind of news that drives people around the bend:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Ballmer admits Windows 7 isn't fully optimized for the tablets. "We're not going to do a major revamp of Windows 7 for slate applications; that will come in the next version (Windows 8)," Ballmer said at the UK Tech Days conference.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh?
Click to expand...

A change at the top in Redmond has been long overdue, IMHO.


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## dennisj00

It's still not very close. . . (the competition, not Ballmer's outage . . )


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## Mike Bertelson

dennisj00 said:


> It's still not very close. . . (the competition, not Ballmer's outage . . )


The Android tablets have been in the works for a couple of years and are being released now. They will be the competition not Microsoft.

Microsoft has a lot of work to do if they think they'll be able to compete. With all the apps available for iPad & Android, Microsoft will have to change the way they do things before they'll even have a chance. I don't see that happening by Christmas...of course I've been wrong before. :grin:

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson

phrelin said:


> Here's the kind of news that drives people around the bend: Huh?


I'm getting a 404 error on your link. :scratchin

Mike


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## Steve

MicroBeta said:


> [...] Microsoft has a lot of work to do if they think they'll be able to compete. With all the apps available for iPad & Android, Microsoft will have to change the way they do things before they'll even have a chance. I don't see that happening by Christmas...of course I've been wrong before. :grin:


What I get from Ballmer's comments is simply a tablet running Windows 7 by Christmas. Looks like we won't see an iOS competitor from Microsoft until Windows 8, apparently slated for Q4-11/Q1-12 commercial release.


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## Mike Bertelson

Steve said:


> What I get from Ballmer's comments is simply a tablet running Windows 7 by Christmas. Looks like we won't see an iOS competitor from Microsoft until Windows 8, apparently slated for Q4-11/Q1-12 commercial release.


By then, those that want tablets will have an iPad or an Android...a day late and a dollar short...again. !rolling

Mike


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## Steve

MicroBeta said:


> By then, those that want tablets will have an iPad or an Android...a day late and a dollar short...again. !rolling


Funny thing is back in January, there was speculation that Microsoft would actually beat the iPad to the market with their Courier device (video below).

Meanwhile, the iPad is the fastest selling new electronic device in history, Apple's market cap has been greater than Microsoft's ever since and it wouldn't surprise me to learn the Microsoft Courier development team left in frustration and are now working for Apple or Google!

That's why Ballmer's got to go, IMHO.


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## phrelin

In one of those mysteries Microsoft abandoned the Courier. One comment was:


> The dominant PC OS supplier mystified the world when it killed off its dual screen Courier tablet product before launching it. Since then its response to the success of the Ipad has simply been to be involved in a Hewlett Packard product that rather embarressingly saw Windows 7 dropped for WebOS.


Sometimes I get the feeling that Microsoft has become Ballmer's Backyard Barbeque where they cook up lots of stuff that tastes bad.


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## Mike Bertelson

phrelin said:


> In one of those mysteries Microsoft abandoned the Courier. One comment was:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dominant PC OS supplier mystified the world when it killed off its dual screen Courier tablet product before launching it. Since then its response to the success of the Ipad has simply been to be involved in a Hewlett Packard product that rather embarressingly saw Windows 7 dropped for WebOS.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes I get the feeling that Microsoft has become Ballmer's Backyard Barbeque where they cook up lots of stuff that tastes bad.
Click to expand...

It's either over done or under done but never quite right. 

Actually, I really like Windows 7. 

Mike


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## roadrunner1782

Apple is selling refurbished ipad's now on the apple store website. (if anyone cares!). They only are $50 cheaper than a new one and so far I've only seen the wifi models available.


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## Stewart Vernon

roadrunner1782 said:


> Apple is selling refurbished ipad's now on the apple store website. (if anyone cares!). They only are $50 cheaper than a new one and so far I've only seen the wifi models available.


If I were to guess... I'd guess these are from people who bought the WiFi model and then returned it when the 3G model came out.


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## harsh

roadrunner1782 said:


> Apple is selling refurbished ipad's now on the apple store website. (if anyone cares!). They only are $50 cheaper than a new one and so far I've only seen the wifi models available.


They are also offering a "friends and family" discount on new models that may end up being be cheaper yet.

Seems a little unusual for Apple.


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## phrelin

harsh said:


> They are also offering a "friends and family" discount on new models that may end up being be cheaper yet.
> 
> Seems a little unusual for Apple.


Where did you see that? I'm thinking of Christmas.


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## harsh

phrelin said:


> Where did you see that? I'm thinking of Christmas.


Got an e-mail from a relative married to someone who works for Apple.


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## Lee L

We just bought one for my wife. Interesting about the discounts. She did manage to half bully half flirt the guy into giving us 5% off due to the Reward Zone 10% off certificates not realle clarifying whether they applied to the iPad or not. Hmm, is this a computer? Not Really, its not an iPod accesory, its not an iPod, but it can function as one. 

Pretty nice device. Maybe they will come out with a nice enough upgrade we'll get a second one next year.


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