# Dish Vs DirecTv



## CrazyGuy

hi! I'm starting this thread because I cannot decide what the best choice would be for my satellite needs.

I have read around about the two choices but a lot of it seems to be this one sucks or that one sucks! Or biased marketing material. This isn't exactly helpful!

I have 3 HD TV's with the possibility of adding a 4th sometime later on.

I would like to be able to record between 2 and 4 things at a time with the DVR divided by two of the 3 rooms.

I'm not a huge sports fan, but I do watch the occasional baseball game. I do like movies.

Is there a REAL difference between dish and dtv's picture quality?

also hopper vs genie whats the REAL difference and which one is better?

Thanks,
-CG


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## lparsons21

IMO, here's the way to look at which to get.

1. Which one has more of what you want to watch? And in HD?
2. How much will it cost?
3. How does the gear work?

The HD between D* and E* is slightly different which is the way most describe it. D* has that slight edge.

And why is my #3 in last place? Because when the dust settles, you'll watch TV and both D* and E*'s gear will allow you to do that just fine, and both will allow you to share just fine.


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## harsh

Both the Genie and Hopper will serve up to four TVs. The catch with the Hopper is that, depending on what kind of content you're recording and how much live TV you watch, you may run out of tuners.

If you desire MLB Extra Innings, DIRECTV's your logical choice. If you can get your baseball elsewhere, there's not much to worry about either way (unless you demand all of the non-game content in HD -- a bow to DIRECTV).

DISH arguably does movies better with the addition of the Epix networks though DIRECTV carries more HBO and Showtime in HD (same movies at different times).

Both the Genie and Hopper systems are relatively new and are experiencing some teething pains.

The rest comes down to channels that one has that the other doesn't (or HD versus SD) and that goes either way depending entirely on your personal preferences.

The big nod to DISH comes from their support of archiving programming to cheap external hard drives so that if your DVR dies, you haven't lost anything you intended to save. The AutoHop feature probably doesn't hurt either if you're a big fan of the big four networks.


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## toobs

I went with Directv because the HR34 can record 5 shows at the same time while the Hopper can record up to 3. I highly doubt that I will keep NFL package because I'm never home on Sundays to watch and if I'm home, I watch whatever game is broadcast locally. At the time, Dish did not have AMC. I waited until Breaking Bad was over to switch to Directv and Dish still didn't carry AMC. I don't use Genie at all. AMC was the big one for me.


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## harsh

toobs said:


> I went with Directv because the HR34 can record 5 shows at the same time while the Hopper can record up to 3.


With the Prime Time Anytime feature and an OTA tuner, the Hopper can record up to 7 channels at once (four without PTAT). The Genie is limited to recording five channels period.


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## sigma1914

harsh said:


> With the Prime Time Anytime feature and an OTA tuner, the Hopper can record up to 7 channels at once (four without PTAT). The Genie is limited to recording five channels period.


PTAT is great if most of your viewing is 8p-11p EST on the general network channels. At least with Genie, it's any 5 channels at anytime...not 7 at a certain time.


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## joshjr

sigma1914 said:


> PTAT is great if most of your viewing is 8p-11p EST on the general network channels. At least with Genie, it's any 5 channels at anytime...not 7 at a certain time.


Agreed, that fact that the Hopper logs tuners for specific channels during specific times makes it NOT for me lol. The HR34 is perfect for my viewing needs. It does exactly what I need it to do.


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## harsh

Other than live sports programming, I'm not sure that there isn't at least one repeat of just about every program on "cable channels" in the same 24 hour period.

A&E and Discovery networks play their original series episodes three or more times a week (often twice on premier day). The same goes for the premium movie plexes. As RSNs become more popular, even the game replays are are on the upswing.


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## BrianB

Having used both, I can say that the Hopper's UI is much faster, more intuitive, and more polished than the Genie. It's a frustrating experience using the channel guide in the Genie where the Hopper is instantaneous and fluid.


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## Hoosier205

If HD picture quality is important to you...Dish Network isn't even an option.


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## fourhokiefans

Hoosier205 said:


> If HD picture quality is important to you...Dish Network isn't even an option.


That is a definitive opinion. Are you on the payroll at DirecTv?:hurah:


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## Hoosier205

"fourhokiefans" said:


> That is a definitive opinion.


 You can choose to believe that if you wish.


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## peano

Hoosier205 said:


> If HD picture quality is important to you...Dish Network isn't even an option.


Not true. I have DIRECTV and Dish on my 60" Kuro. I get that you hate Dish but your claim that Directv HD is miles better is wrong.


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## Hoosier205

"peano" said:


> Not true. I have DIRECTV and Dish on my 60" Kuro. I get that you hate Dish but your claim that Directv HD is miles better is wrong.


The facts tell a different story. Dish HD is inferior.


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## kick4fun

Hoosier205 said:


> The facts tell a different story. Dish HD is inferior.


I switched and you certainly tried everything you had to stop me from going to Dish because the HD quality etc.. I have to disagree and am very pleased with the HD on DISH.

I think the best way to make the choice from DISH vs DIRECTV is to look at programming then cost..


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## Hoosier205

"kick4fun" said:


> I switched and you certainly tried everything you had to stop me from going to Dish because the HD quality etc.. I have to disagree and am very pleased with the HD on DISH.
> 
> I think the best way to make the choice from DISH vs DIRECTV is to look at programming then cost..


I didn't care that you switched, nor did it surprise me.


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## Inkosaurus

Hoosier205 said:


> The facts tell a different story. Dish HD is inferior.


Inferior?
Yes.

Noticeably inferior?
No.


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## dpeters11

kick4fun said:


> I switched and you certainly tried everything you had to stop me from going to Dish because the HD quality etc.. I have to disagree and am very pleased with the HD on DISH.
> 
> I think the best way to make the choice from DISH vs DIRECTV is to look at programming then cost..


And features, such as is Hopper/Joey better in your situation or HR34 Genie.


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## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:



> You can choose to believe that if you wish.


Thanks for that, I was really worrying that you wouldn't approve! :lol:


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## peano

Hoosier205 doesn't even have Dish and probably hasn't for years.

Yet he states unequivocally that DIRECTV HD is far better. And he is wrong. I think he is bitter with Dish for some reason.

On my calibrated Pioneer Elite 60" Kuro Plasma there is very little noticeable difference between Dish HD and Directv HD. I will admit Directv is _slightly_ better on _some_ content.

I know Directv is supposed to have better bitrates and perhaps they do, but to 99% of the population, they will never notice. I am extremely particular about what I watch and can tell the difference in picture quality. The difference is hard to see unless you stand a foot away from a 60" screen.

I watch Dish HD 90 percent of the time now because I can't stand waiting for my Directv receiver to respond to a remote button press. Now THAT is annoying and a proven fact.

I would say to any potential Directv sub......wait.

...Until Directv decides to make a receiver that has proper processing power and combines it with properly written software.

You will be waiting a LONG time.


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## Reaper

"joshjr" said:


> Agreed, that fact that the Hopper logs tuners for specific channels during specific times makes it NOT for me lol.


The Hopper uses a single tuner to record PTAT. You can disable PTAT recording and free up that tuner during prime time.


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## Reaper

"Hoosier205" said:


> If HD picture quality is important to you...Dish Network isn't even an option.


I recently moved from FiOS to Dish. FiOS arguably has some of the best HD in the biz because they don't add compression to their signals. I chose Dish because they have more of the HD channels that I wanted, and because I like their equipment better. I was very worried about the HD PQ but there is not a noticeable drop off in my eyes. There is in the SD PQ but DirecTV's is even worse. I'm more than happy with Dish.


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## BrianB

peano said:


> I watch Dish HD 90 percent of the time now because I can't stand waiting for my Directv receiver to respond to a remote button press. Now THAT is annoying and a proven fact.
> 
> I would say to any potential Directv sub......wait.
> 
> ...Until Directv decides to make a receiver that has proper processing power and combines it with properly written software.


Agreed.

I made the mistake of jumping to the Genie and have been looking for a way out of it ever since. Unfortunately it's only gotten worse as they add features.


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## Reaper

BrianB said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I made the mistake of jumping to the Genie and have been looking for a way out of it ever since. Unfortunately it's only gotten worse as they add features.


I miss the days when other manufacturers created DIRECTV boxes, like RCA and Sony. I think that Echostar does a nice job for Dish but the DIRECTV boxes are too slowly responsive for my taste.


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## harsh

Hoosier205 said:


> The facts tell a different story.


Do you have a link to these facts?


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## PCampbell

I look at the programming as that is why we watch. DirecTV is better for sports and Dish looks better for movies. Look at the packages and pick the one that is best for you.


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## harsh

Reaper said:


> I miss the days when other manufacturers created DIRECTV boxes, like RCA and Sony.


DIRECTV's boxes are manufactured mostly by Pace and Samsung with a few from Thomson (Technicolor/RCA).

The main issue is probably the software as updating the software seems to impact all of the different models.

The way that hardware is changing and new features are rolling out, it isn't the same as it was for the first ten years where any box was more or less as serviceable as any other.

The basic chipsets are pretty similar between DIRECTV and DISH. DISH seems to have significantly more discipline with respect to their software.

While they would probably never admit to missing some of the fancy features, the TiVotees don't seem to be complaining about the performance of the THR-22 versus the almost universal complaints about the HR-2[1-3].


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## harsh

PCampbell said:


> I look at the programming as that is why we watch. DirecTV is better for sports and Dish looks better for movies.


It is imperative to not paint each with too broad a brush. Each has a few surprises that the other should have but mysteriously doesn't carry.

Tomorrow, for example, DIRECTV customers on the Wet Coast won't be able to use their service to watch the Civil War football game on the Pac-12 network but most DISH customers will.


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## Hoosier205

"harsh" said:


> Do you have a link to these facts?


List a single 1080i channel offered by Dish in its full resolution.


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## Reaper

"Hoosier205" said:


> List a single 1080i channel offered by Dish in its full resolution.


You're right - Dish apparently down samples 1920x1080 to 1440x1080. I have to tell you though, after recently moving from FiOS to Dish, the HD on Dish looks very, very good to me - surprisingly so in fact.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Lite


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## Inkosaurus

Hoosier205 said:


> List a single 1080i channel offered by Dish in its full resolution.


List a single channel where the difference is actually noticeable.

I also have multiple pro. calibrated sets and theres hardly a difference, many other people who arent biased have also noted the difference isnt big enough to make a fuss over.

This has been the only point you have ever made in all of these vs threads and its funny thats its practically not a point at all lol.


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## Hoosier205

"Inkosaurus" said:


> List a single channel where the difference is actually noticeable.
> 
> I also have multiple pro. calibrated sets and theres hardly a difference, many other people who arent biased have also noted the difference isnt big enough to make a fuss over.
> 
> This has been the only point you have ever made in all of these vs threads and its funny thats its practically not a point at all lol.


Noticeable? Every single 1080i channel. Unless you're among the crowd who believe DVD-quality is good enough, that the original release of Patton on blu-ray looked great, and a Vizio LCD is a high quality display.

DirecTV has superior HD picture quality.
DirecTV has substantially more HD channels.
DirecTV is far better at retaining existing HD channels.
DirecTV's equipment/technology/features do not go hand-in-hand with lawsuits, theft, and various unethical business practices...a frequent occurrence with Dish Network.


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## lparsons21

I'll give you convinced.

Other than that, feel free to repeat the mantra that few believe.


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## Inkosaurus

> DirecTV has superior HD picture quality.


Acting as if the difference in quality between is so huge its worth noting.
Again the difference in quality is slight, not large.



> DirecTV has substantially more HD channels.


Maybe more Sports in HD, but aside from that non-sports fans wont care.
On the national channel HD listings there about the same with a slight advantage to Dish.



> DirecTV is far better at retaining existing HD channels.


Acting as if Dtv never has disputes either, IIRC you guys lost viacom stuff for a month not to long ago right? Every company has negotiation issues, this is not exclusive to either Dish or Dtv.



> DirecTV's equipment/technology/features do not go hand-in-hand with lawsuits, theft, and various unethical business practices...a frequent occurrence with Dish Network.


This is probably the only ounce of unbiased truth that isnt riddled in semantic bs you have said all day good job 

I have no preference for either company I love them both to death honestly (i.e. im never going back to cable as long as there both around).
At the end of the day the differences like "picture quality" arent really differences at all except to people with pro calibrated tv's and even then its not a difference that they *care about*.

When deciding between the two you have to ignore the fan boys who pretend Dtv is apparently in 4k resolution and just look at the channel listings+ the receiver features and choose based off that.
Everything else is a nonpoint.


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## Hoosier205

"Inkosaurus" said:


> Acting as if the difference in quality between is so huge its worth noting.
> Again the difference in quality is slight, not large.


 Typical response from a sub of an inferior service.



"Inkosaurus" said:


> Maybe more Sports in HD, but aside from that non-sports fans wont care.
> On the national channel HD listings there about the same with a slight advantage to Dish.


False. More in both categories. Also, those sports channels are national HD channels.



"Inkosaurus" said:


> Acting as if Dtv never has disputes either, IIRC you guys lost viacom stuff for a month not to long ago right? Every company has negotiation issues, this is not exclusive to either Dish or Dtv.


DirecTV resolves their disputes. The Viacom issue!was was resolved in the blink of any eye compared to Dish's efforts. DirecTV has a much better track record.


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## Inkosaurus

> Typical response from a sub of an inferior service.


I have both services running at the same time for over a year. Unlike you my posts arent based off of speculation.



> False. More in both categories. Also, those sports channels are national HD channels.


More semantics. A non-sports fan could argue that the non-sports HD listing is very similar with both services having a fairly equal amount of HD channels. The difference being in a few that are on HD in one but not the other.
(Thus why its always suggested to see the listing before hand, as there both incredibly similar to non-sports fans).



> DirecTV resolves their disputes. The Viacom issue!was was resolved in the blink of any eye compared to Dish's efforts. DirecTV has a much better track record.


Aside from the actual Voom channels and MSG that were lost I cant think of many/any Dish negotiations that were not resolved.
Though ultimately you are correct Dtv has the better track record when it comes to this.
How ever its not like either provider is stuck without multiple networks for long stretches of times.


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## Hoosier205

"Inkosaurus" said:


> I have both services running at the same time for over a year. Unlike you my posts arent based off of speculation.


My post are not based off of speculation.



"Inkosaurus" said:


> More semantics. A non-sports fan could argue that the non-sports HD listing is very similar with both services having a fairly equal amount of HD channels. The difference being in a few that are on HD in one but not the other.
> (Thus why its always suggested to see the listing before hand, as there both incredibly similar to non-sports fans).


Not semantics. Facts.



"Inkosaurus" said:


> Aside from the actual Voom channels and MSG that were lost I cant think of many/any Dish negotiations that were not resolved.
> Though ultimately you are correct Dtv has the better track record when it comes to this.
> How ever its not like either provider is stuck without multiple networks for long stretches of times.


False. Apparently you have some research to conduct.


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## Inkosaurus

Nope.
If you have something to say post links to the source of your claims, im not going to go googling for you


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## harsh

Hoosier205 said:


> List a single 1080i channel offered by Dish in its full resolution.


I'm asking you for a link and you're giving me the DIRECTV apologist "conventional wisdom".

The other side of your specious argument is that resolution <> quality. You can have a 1920x1080 signal that is passing only 2GB/hour that will surely look a lot worse than a 1440x1080 signal at the same or higher rate.


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## Reaper

"Hoosier205" said:


> Typical response from a sub of an inferior service.


Superiority, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. For me, I much prefer Dish's technology, and they have more of the HD channels that I care about (H2, HLN, Cartoon Network, EPIX, etc). Yes, it would be nice to have Sunday Ticket. I had it for 4 or 5 years but it is simply too expensive nowadays for my tastes. I'll "suffer" with national broadcasts, NFL RedZone, and the local Steelers bar.

I was worried about the HD PQ with Dish but I'm glad that it was a needless concern.

It's good that you're happy with DIRECTV, but that doesn't mean that you should insult others' preferred provider as being "inferior". That's merely your opinion based on your own unique tastes. You have a point about resolution. I and others have a point about the sluggish DIRECTV UI. And there are points to be made on both sides about programming. It's all about what's important to the individual.


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## Brubear

I will admit to bias - I've been a DirecTv customer for 17 years, long before I started working for them. I have family members that have defected to Dish, and I honestly think I've a better HD picture. I have 2 HR24s and a HR34with client and they work seamlessly most of the time. No one I know has a Hopper for me to compare it to.
I WILL say that I have called customer service for the competitor, on behalf of my 83 year old aunt, enough to have created an opinion, and yes, I think DirecTV does it better.


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## bidger

Congratulations, you fanbois of both providers have been pwned by a hit-and-run threadstarter.


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## beandaddy

Is there a current channel listing, say in an xls file somewhere on the web of the two?
I have a feeling there isn't a significant difference between the two. I'm not a sports fan so the occasional game I might want to watch is probably on a local or ESPN anyway.
Now the hardware ill need to do a lot more research on. I'm out of contract and dish vip722 is an awful box. My dtv hr20 was no fuss, get the job done.
So these new DVR multi recorders are completely new to me, so guessing I'm going to pay whether I switch back to dtv or just upgrade with dish.
Advice and input is appreciated


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## James Long

I don't believe anyone has bothered to maintain a complete channel comparison. I started one for all channels a few years ago and gave up quickly. I still maintain a HD channel comparison but it needs updated.


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## TMan

I wanted to do that, too. Both companies don't seem to offer a listing that pastes nicely into a spreadsheet.


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## beandaddy

It's as if our friendly satellite providers wish to obfuscate their offerings...
An HDTV only list would just about do. I've been on HD for six or seven years and if it ain't on HD, I'm not likely to put it in my lineup.


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## James Long

DirecTV & DISH Network HD Channel Lineup Comparison

Enjoy!


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## acer

James Long said:


> I don't believe anyone has bothered to maintain a complete channel comparison. I started one for all channels a few years ago and gave up quickly. I still maintain a HD channel comparison but it needs updated.





PCampbell said:


> I look at the programming as that is why we watch. DirecTV is better for sports and Dish looks better for movies. Look at the packages and pick the one that is best for you.


Hardly. While DirecTV doesn't offer Epix, Dish does not offer all of the Cinemax or Showtime channels. And Cinemax and Showtime is a better offer than Epix. DirecTV is the winner in sports and programming.


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## lparsons21

acer said:


> Hardly. While DirecTV doesn't offer Epix, Dish does not offer all of the Cinemax or Showtime channels. And Cinemax and Showtime is a better offer than Epix. DirecTV is the winner in sports and programming.


While the first part of your comment is factually true, the latter is solely your opinion.

Yes Dish doesn't have all the Cinemax & Showtime channels, but I haven't noticed that causing movies to be missed. In general, almost all the movies will show on all the channels of Sho&Max that the missing ones have.

And Epix is a great movie addition as it has movies from studios that don't show up on the others.

D* & E* are literally 2 pods in the same pea overall, with slight emphasis one way or the other outside of sports.


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## damondlt

harsh said:


> Do you have a link to these facts?


No he doesn't ! LOL

He considers anything that comes out of his mouth to be facts.:lol:

I've had both, and the difference is minimal at best.

And quite honestly, Directvs HD PQ , has been looking softer lately IMO.

It doesn't have that Snap it once had. So maybe Directv is packing TP's to the max?

Just doesn't seem as impressive lately.


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## James Long

lparsons21 said:


> Yes Dish doesn't have all the Cinemax & Showtime channels, but I haven't noticed that causing movies to be missed. In general, almost all the movies will show on all the channels of Sho&Max that the missing ones have.
> 
> And Epix is a great movie addition as it has movies from studios that don't show up on the others.


That is a good point ... the studio contracts limiting movies to one outlet means those movies will not be seen on other outlets ... regardless of the number of channels they have. Multiple channels means more movies can be shown at the same time and some themes can be followed (with most movies making it on the main channels occasionally or at least on a different theme channel) ... but if Cinemax or Showtime doesn't have the rights they don't have the movies.


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## domingos35

acer said:


> Hardly. While DirecTV doesn't offer Epix, Dish does not offer all of the Cinemax or Showtime channels. And Cinemax and Showtime is a better offer than Epix. DirecTV is the winner in sports and programming.


Cinemax and Showtime are better offers than Epix ?
what are u smoking?
And the Epix channels are included at no extra cost whereas Cinemax and Showtime cost an arm and 2 legs


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## beandaddy

I turn off showtime after tonight for another year. Dexter and Homeland finales tonight. I've had Netflix since the 20th century, so movies are old by the time any premiums get them. GOOD movies are a great rarity these days anyway...


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## PeteyEsco

Does Dish or DTV offer MSG channel to customers not in the New York area? Knicks fan here, unfortunately Charter Cable does not offer NBA League pass.


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## sigma1914

PeteyEsco said:


> Does Dish or DTV offer MSG channel to customers not in the New York area? Knicks fan here, unfortunately Charter Cable does not offer NBA League pass.


You'd need NBA League Pass for Knicks games where you are. DirecTV carries MSG, Dish doesn't. However, the games will be blacked out without LP.


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## Hoosier205

PeteyEsco;3175156 said:


> Does Dish or DTV offer MSG channel to customers not in the New York area? Knicks fan here, unfortunately Charter Cable does not offer NBA League pass.


DirecTV has MSG, Dish Network does not. It's offered as an RSN and for use with various sports packages.


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## coldsteel

domingos35 said:


> Cinemax and Showtime are better offers than Epix ?
> what are u smoking?
> And the Epix channels are included at no extra cost whereas Cinemax and Showtime cost an arm and 2 legs


Not true. EPIX 1/2/3 are only available with DISH either on the [email protected] package for $10 or a stand-alone with EPIX Drive-in for $7 a month. Drive-In is added at no additional in the Top 250 only. So, with current promos, I can get Showtime cheaper for 6 months and have more variety (8 unique feeds in SHO) than the 4 EPIX feeds.


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## Trekkie

I've been on Centurylink Prism for two years after bailing on DirecTV after my frustration with things not working like I wanted. It's been a while since I've been around.

Prism has been unable to increase the number of simultaneous HD channels above one since October 2011. It's a distance limitation for my house, since i'm not able to move I keep asking, and keep getting told soon. It isn't a *huge* deal except every spring and every fall the stupid networks move their shows around and inevitably shows get missed because Prism can't resolve conflicts and/or step down to SD when HD is unavailable. I'm not home a lot so DVR recording getting missed over a HD conflict ticks me off, and it happened again with the new mid season stuff. So, I'm debating switching away.

So I'm back and looking at Dish and DirecTV again. Since I can't go anywhere and look at either of these DVRs and play on my own I'm busy trying to find good side by sides in comparison.

Couple things I can't find the answer for:

Dish:

1) The PrimeTime + 2 Streams recording. If one of the shows I want to make sure is recorded is in prime time, does it consume one of my two streams?

2) Is hopper smart enough to know that the show comes on again in two/three hours and isn't a repeat, and if there is a conflict at an earlier time to record teh later time? 

3) How many satellite dish are needed for a hopper + Joey

4) Is the satellite in the same general spot as the DirecTV Satellite ( MY home owners get whiney if you can see the dish, I have an exception for where the old satellite is. Would be nice if it doesn't point say 180 in the opposite direction or on other side of house.

5) What cable type is used to feed the box and how many. What are the ethernet ports used for

6) Pretty clear that if I want any Disney property in HD it's a non-starter with this provider, is that still true/has a resolution been reached or is the multi-year saga still ongoing?

7) Is there anything I can't do from the Joey?

DirecTV:

1) Is their DVR still limited to 50 season passes?

2) Are all shows HD if it's recording more than two at a time?

3) How many satellite dish are needed for Genie + Two Mobile TVs

4) What cabling is used to feed the DVR box and how many. What are the ethernet ports used for

5) Is there anything I can't do from the remote box?


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## harsh

Hoosier205 said:


> DirecTV has MSG, Dish Network does not. It's offered as an RSN and for use with various sports packages.


A non-answer.

DIRECTV offers MSG to out-of-market subscribers through the $12.99 Sports Pack (unless blacked out for sometimes mysterious reasons). Another alternative would be the $99 NBA League Pass that could also be subject to inexplicable blackout.

DISH claims to offer the Knicks only to _in-market_ viewers through the NBA League Pass package. It seems like it should be the other way around.


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## lparsons21

Some answers inline:

Dish:

1) The PrimeTime + 2 Streams recording. If one of the shows I want to make sure is recorded is in prime time, does it consume one of my two streams?

PrimeTime is only for the big 4 broadcast stations, so during prime time if you have it turned on it uses 1 tuner to record them leaving you 2 tuners to record/watch.


2) Is hopper smart enough to know that the show comes on again in two/three hours and isn't a repeat, and if there is a conflict at an earlier time to record teh later time? 

Once you have your series links setup I've found that it is very good at picking up on conflicts and getting the episode recorded assuming it is repeated. In general the 'cable' type channels repeat incessantly, so picking them up is easy.

3) How many satellite dish are needed for a hopper + Joey

Usually just one.

4) Is the satellite in the same general spot as the DirecTV Satellite ( MY home owners get whiney if you can see the dish, I have an exception for where the old satellite is. Would be nice if it doesn't point say 180 in the opposite direction or on other side of house.

Depends on your location. In markets that use the western arc, the Dish dish is pointing in the same general direction, SW. But for other markets, it is pointing SE.

5) What cable type is used to feed the box and how many. What are the ethernet ports used for

1 wire to each receiver, should be RG6.
The ethernet port is used to get the system on the internet, or if you get a Hopper w/Sling you can accomplish the same thing wirelessly and it will share the internet access with other Hoppers/Joeys in the system

6) Pretty clear that if I want any Disney property in HD it's a non-starter with this provider, is that still true/has a resolution been reached or is the multi-year saga still ongoing?

Who knows? It is tied up with the lawsuit.

7) Is there anything I can't do from the Joey?

can't answer as I have a 2 Hopper only system.


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## harsh

Trekkie said:


> Couple things I can't find the answer for:


It doesn't appear that you put much effort into finding answers


> Dish:
> 
> 1) The PrimeTime + 2 Streams recording. If one of the shows I want to make sure is recorded is in prime time, does it consume one of my two streams?


All prime time, big-four shows are recorded on the one tuner. If the program is not on the big-four, one of the other two tuners will be tapped.


> 2) Is hopper smart enough to know that the show comes on again in two/three hours and isn't a repeat, and if there is a conflict at an earlier time to record teh later time?


As long as you don't tell the Hopper that you want to see new shows only.


> 3) How many satellite dish are needed for a hopper + Joey


One.


> 4) Is the satellite in the same general spot as the DirecTV Satellite ( MY home owners get whiney if you can see the dish, I have an exception for where the old satellite is. Would be nice if it doesn't point say 180 in the opposite direction or on other side of house.


All satellites reside over the Equator so you're never going to be pointing North. DISH has two configurations that are on either side of the DIRECTV contellation.


> 5) What cable type is used to feed the box and how many.


RG6 with standard shielding, one cable per STB.


> What are the ethernet ports used for


TCP/IP networking (or Joey connection absent a coax).


> 6) Pretty clear that if I want any Disney property in HD it's a non-starter with this provider, is that still true/has a resolution been reached or is the multi-year saga still ongoing?


Ongoing.


> 7) Is there anything I can't do from the Joey?


PIP.


> DirecTV:
> 
> 1) Is their DVR still limited to 50 season passes?


The Genie supports 100


> 2) Are all shows HD if it's recording more than two at a time?


All five can be HD as the advertising makes abundantly clear.


> 3) How many satellite dish are needed for Genie + Two Mobile TVs


One. The Genie itself does NOT support "mobile" TVs but using the Genie Client, it can support up to three other TVs at once.


> 4) What cabling is used to feed the DVR box and how many.


One RG6 cable for each box.


> What are the ethernet ports used for


Connection of the Genie to the Internet.


> 5) Is there anything I can't do from the remote box?


PIP.


----------



## Hoosier205

harsh;3175707 said:


> A non-answer.
> 
> DIRECTV offers MSG to out-of-market subscribers through the $12.99 Sports Pack (unless blacked out for sometimes mysterious reasons). Another alternative would be the $99 NBA League Pass that could also be subject to inexplicable blackout.
> 
> DISH claims to offer the Knicks only to in-market viewers through the NBA League Pass package. It seems like it should be the other way around.


My answer was perfectly fine. Dish Network refuses to carry any RSN's for the largest DMA in the country, while DirecTV carries all of them.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

That is why if sports is your top reason you go with directv. There is nothing that dish has that I do not. I use to be a DISH customer but saw the light and wow it is great.


----------



## James Long

donalddickerson2005 said:


> There is nothing that dish has that I do not.


You have Pac-12 Network?

No provider has every channel.


----------



## damondlt

James Long said:


> You have Pac-12 Network?
> 
> No provider has every channel.


Wow great channel.:lol:


----------



## donalddickerson2005

James Long said:


> You have Pac-12 Network?
> 
> No provider has every channel.


OK PAC 12 just like longhorn if I can see the games on other channels then no I am not missing anything. Now dish you miss every nfl game and here in a few weeks I'll be watching 4 plus channels for the masters and you will be stuck with tiger all day.I switched from dish because they suck when it comes to sports.


----------



## lparsons21

While D* does a bang up job with sports, you don't miss 'every NFL game' with Dish either.

And no, Dish doesn't suck for sports they just aren't in love with them!


----------



## donalddickerson2005

lparsons21 said:


> While D* does a bang up job with sports, you don't miss 'every NFL game' with Dish either.
> 
> And no, Dish doesn't suck for sports they just aren't in love with them!


Fine if you like your local NFL team that's great but I live in Atlanta and do not what so ever like them. Just like I need NHLCI and MLBEI to watch my saint Louis teams.


----------



## James Long

Your claim was not that DirecTV is not better than DISH it was, as quoted:


donalddickerson2005 said:


> There is nothing that dish has that I do not.


I can give other examples, but since you mentioned sports that seemed to be the best one. You, as many have done before, can try to minimalise the content that you do not have ... but the fact remains. No provider has every channel. Even well respected DirecTV employees will tell you that.


----------



## Hoosier205

James Long;3176630 said:


> Your claim was not that DirecTV is not better than DISH it was, as quoted:I can give other examples, but since you mentioned sports that seemed to be the best one. You, as many have done before, can try to minimalise the content that you do not have ... but the fact remains. No provider has every channel. Even well respected DirecTV employees will tell you that.


True, no provider has them all. DirecTV does however have more than Dish...while also delivering superior picture quality.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

James Long said:


> Your claim was not that DirecTV is not better than DISH it was, as quoted:I can give other examples, but since you mentioned sports that seemed to be the best one. You, as many have done before, can try to minimalise the content that you do not have ... but the fact remains. No provider has every channel. Even well respected DirecTV employees will tell you that.


I give you sports an all dish people say we have more programs well name 1 that I can not see that is in the top 250. From ncis to house hunters, wwe just give me one show that EVERYONE wants to watch. As I tell everyone if you want sports then DirecTV is the only way to go. But if you dont care about sports then heck you can go with anyone . oh and last time I checked dish was top 5 for worst company's to work for.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

Hoosier205 said:


> True, no provider has them all. DirecTV does however have more than Dish...while also delivering superior picture quality.


Wait just a minute I remember 1 station we do not get and my parents that have dish do and that is the earth channel 24-7-365 of nothing but looking at the earth.

I might just think about switching back. NOT


----------



## James Long

donalddickerson2005 said:


> Wait just a minute I remember 1 station we do not get and my parents that have dish do and that is the earth channel 24-7-365 of nothing but looking at the earth.


Unfortunately the EARTH channel ended on October 31st, 2012. The camera was available under an experimental license. It was interesting to see the world from a different perspective.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

James Long said:


> Unfortunately the EARTH channel ended on October 31st, 2012. The camera was available under an experimental license. It was interesting to see the world from a different perspective.


Well then never mind. 
The thing that gets to me is the football player not going to be named by me is saying how good xfinity is but all they got is red zone.


----------



## James Long

donalddickerson2005 said:


> The thing that gets to me is the football player not going to be named by me is saying how good xfinity is but all they got is red zone.


Perhaps he is one of the people who don't want to watch every game. RedZone is a nice way to see what is going on in all games around the country without spending hundreds of dollars. Perhaps the unnamed football player can afford hundreds of dollars ... many people can't. Perhaps he really doesn't want to watch the boring parts of the game and just wants to see every score.

RedZone for a few dollars per month fills a need.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

James Long said:


> Perhaps he is one of the people who don't want to watch every game. RedZone is a nice way to see what is going on in all games around the country without spending hundreds of dollars. Perhaps the unnamed football player can afford hundreds of dollars ... many people can't. Perhaps he really doesn't want to watch the boring parts of the game and just wants to see every score.
> 
> RedZone for a few dollars per month fills a need.


This is a current player for the bears. Red zone is fine if all you want is the TDs but for me I want to see more than that.


----------



## James Long

donalddickerson2005 said:


> This is a current player for the bears. Red zone is fine if all you want is the TDs but for me I want to see more than that.


Personal preferences are acceptable. But I would like to remind you of the annual threads in the DirecTV forums where even DirecTV customers express a preference for getting JUST the RedZone channel without Sunday Ticket.

You are not alone in your preference, but neither are the people who would be happy with just a RedZone channel.


----------



## Hoosier205

James Long;3176807 said:


> Personal preferences are acceptable. But I would like to remind you of the annual threads in the DirecTV forums where even DirecTV customers express a preference for getting JUST the RedZone channel without Sunday Ticket.
> 
> You are not alone in your preference, but neither are the people who would be happy with just a RedZone channel.


The original and better version of it however.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

James Long said:


> Personal preferences are acceptable. But I would like to remind you of the annual threads in the DirecTV forums where even DirecTV customers express a preference for getting JUST the RedZone channel without Sunday Ticket.
> 
> You are not alone in your preference, but neither are the people who would be happy with just a RedZone channel.


I do think that DirecTV should offer just the red zone channel without needing the whole NFL package. If they did that they would get millions more customers.


----------



## James Long

Hoosier205 said:


> The original and better version of it however.


For $9 per month (including other channels such as Pac-12 Network) it isn't a bad deal. They show the same games. How much does RedZone cost on DirecTV?


----------



## bidger

donalddickerson2005 said:


> The thing that gets to me is the football player not going to be named by me is saying how good xfinity is but all they got is red zone.


RZC is all I need and I get it from TWC. I prefer to watch every game rather than one specific game and it's a fraction of the cost of ST.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

bidger said:


> RZC is all I need and I get it from TWC. I prefer to watch every game rather than one specific game and it's a fraction of the cost of ST.


For some people that is fine. But for a person like me that likes just 2-3 teams I don't care about what the other teams are doing at the moment. 
I hope DirecTV would do a red zone only deal for people like you.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Hoosier205 said:


> The original and better version of it however.


*facepalm*


----------



## Hoosier205

RasputinAXP;3177376 said:


> *facepalm*


It's true.


----------



## coldsteel

Original, yes. Better? Depends on how you look at it. I think D*'s RZC sucks, price-wise but rocks interactive-wise.


----------



## Hoosier205

coldsteel;3177652 said:


> Original, yes. Better? Depends on how you look at it. I think D*'s RZC sucks, price-wise but rocks interactive-wise.


It also has the better host and usually functions better.


----------



## bidger

Having experienced both, I do concur with Hoosier205. The DirecTV version of RZC is superior, both in host and presentation. Not enough that to make me switch back, but enough that it was evident to me.


----------



## donalddickerson2005

I'd love to see the NHL someday do this with 1 channel. Say make it the power-play station. Where they show shootouts then OT then under 2 minutes within a goal and finally power plays. I know we are talking about NFL but I just wanted to make a quick point.


----------



## MattScahum

I almost hate to ressurect a month old thread, but I have to say this. Can the everything D* does is.excellent and.E* sucks and vice versa please stop? I work for D* and have worked.at E* so I.feel qualified to speak here. Is hd technically better on D*? Yes. Is it noticeable to 99% of people? No. D does have more sports and movies, but E	has.some quality options there that D does not. D has more HD, but it isnt quantity so.much as what do you want in hd. E destroys D in international programming, savung recordings to a back up hard.drive.and stb response time. Lparsons has had both as he just went back to E and he will most likely agree with what I have said. If you work for.D or.E and.cant recognize your employer isnt the.perfect.provider you are.delusional. That is all.


----------



## lparsons21

Matt, from my perspective and my viewing choices, I see D* and E* as two sides of the same coin. I've said many times that one is not a clear choice over the other. 

If I were an ardent sports fan I would be with D* regardless of other considerations. But I'm not, so I can and do switch when I feel it is in my financial best interest.

Right now I both love and hate the Hopper. It does so many things well and does them all very quickly. But someone found a bargain bin of icons and used them in places a list would be much better. I find them irritating.

Here's a funny story.

When I had switched to Dish a few years back, I got weekly emails from D* to 'come back'. So I finally did, yet those same emails kept right on coming as well as a few direct mails for the same thing. They never stopped even while I had already 'came back'. Now that I've switched back to E*, I now get 2 emails a week!


----------



## acostapimps

savings on new customer discounts(or returning customers) is not a bad thing, But if it doesn't have what you want then why bother, That's why is always better to research the channel line up or monthly fees online (or a phone call) before you decide to switch, Don't let commercials or flyers ads decide for you. And if you read the ads ALWAYS READ THE FINE PRINT on the bottom. Me I personally think they're both the same channel wise, everything else is up to you to decide.


----------



## RL_Bynum

Because I'm looking at a potential savings of $30 per month for the first year ($10 per month after that), I'm thinking of switching back to Dish after a few years with DirecTV. If I remember correctly, channel switching is much faster with Dish and it also has the picture-in-picture feather that DirecTV doesn't have. It does seem that the Hopper has much more DVR storage space, as well.


----------



## RL_Bynum

One Dish question: I see that the Regional Sports Networks I'd be getting are listed as "part-time HD." What does that mean exactly. Live games in HD and otherwise not?


----------



## RAD

RL_Bynum said:


> Because I'm looking at a potential savings of $30 per month for the first year ($10 per month after that), I'm thinking of switching back to Dish after a few years with DirecTV. If I remember correctly, channel switching is much faster with Dish and it also has the picture-in-picture feather that DirecTV doesn't have. It does seem that the Hopper has much more DVR storage space, as well.


The HR34/HR44 Genie receivers do have PIP in them.


----------



## dpeters11

If Dish does part time HD RSN like DirecTV does, then that's basically it. My RSN, I get HD for things like Reds games, but at other times the HD channel is offline and only the SD channel is available.


----------



## jsk

You can look at http://www.mydish.com/gamefinder/ and type in your zip code. The grid will list which games are available in HD.


----------



## RL_Bynum

So only the games with an X on the HD column are in HD?


----------



## jsk

Yes, just the games with an X in the HD column are in HD.


----------



## HoTat2

Can't say I agree the assessments of this "new" (I assume) satellite TV comparison group ...

http://www.rapidtvnews.com/index.php/2013051527739/dish-beats-directv-to-top-us-satellite-rankings.html

http://www.bestsatelliteproviders.com/satellite-tv-providers/

But admit as a DIRECTV sub since '95, I'm a bit biased.


----------



## lparsons21

Well in fairness, they did say something about 'slight'... 

Here's an interesting quote which is true, but somewhat clouds the 'savings':
DISH is a less expensive alternative to DIRECTV. On average a satellite TV subscriber can save anywhere from $60 to $120 per year by selecting DISH satellite TV service when compared to a similar plan on DIRECTV.

IOW, $5 to $10/month which is pretty much in line with what everyone already knows, and most think about the monthly cost, not the annual.


----------



## sregener

When I switched from DirecTV to Dish just over a year ago, I did so for a couple of reasons. First, the HR22-100 I had was an absolute dog of a performer. 20-30 seconds after power up (from standby, not complete off) to be able to start a program or change a channel. At the time, the HR24 was supposed to be much faster, but DirecTV wouldn't guarantee me an HR24 if I asked for a replacement receiver. They essentially called all the HR21-24 receivers identical. I could buy an HR24 from a 3rd party for $200, but that's asking a lot just to be able to pick your model number when you upgrade.

Dish offered me a significant savings the first year (over $240) and guaranteed me the receiver of my choice for free. It's hard to spend $500 just to stick with a provider.

In my opinion, the national HD on Dish is a little bit softer. Still nice, but definitely softer. The HD LiL is downright horrible, and I consider an OTA adapter and antenna a necessity. Can't say what DirecTV's HD LiL was like because they didn't offer it in my area when I had it. Note that I am a picture quality snob and can easily detect differences in picture quality most people would never see.


----------



## harsh

lparsons21 said:


> IOW, $5 to $10/month which is pretty much in line with what everyone already knows, and most think about the monthly cost, not the annual.


The "slight" savings note is not true. The difference in ARPU between DIRECTV and DISH in 1Q2013 was $17.51/month. That works out to an average savings of $210.12/year with DISH.


----------



## lparsons21

harsh said:


> The "slight" savings note is not true. The difference in ARPU between DIRECTV and DISH in 1Q2013 was $17.51/month. That works out to an average savings of $210.12/year with DISH.


Which is a bogus comparison imo. The difference in ARPU comes from differing levels of programming and most especially things like NFLST which Dish doesn't have at all. In any comparison of packages/pricing, the difference these days is $5-$10/month. And that's the number that matters.


----------



## harsh

lparsons21 said:


> Which is a bogus comparison imo. The difference in ARPU comes from differing levels of programming and most especially things like NFLST which Dish doesn't have at all. In any comparison of packages/pricing, the difference these days is $5-$10/month. And that's the number that matters.


ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package. In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.

You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't (Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).


----------



## James Long

harsh said:


> ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package. In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.
> 
> You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't (Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).


ARPU is a calculated number that includes commercial accounts ... just like the subscriber counts include "commercial equivalent viewing units". The subscriber numbers are adjusted to reflect both residential and commercial subscribers. The ARPU includes both residential and commercial accounts.

Differing levels of programming comes from more than just the seasonal NFLST. Based on the ARPU DirecTV does a better job of getting people to pay more per month for their service than DISH. Their ARPU is still less than Premier, let alone adding seasonal sports packages. Comparing similar packages (AT200 vs Choice) is a good way of seeing where DirecTV is getting their extra ARPU dollars. Is it by charging more for the same content or by getting their customers to pay for more content?

The new customer NFLST deals play into that ... "free NFLST when you subscribe to Premier" raises the subscription level to Premier year round. Perhaps in the second or third year the customer will fall back to a lower package ... or if they don't want NFLST they would select Choice or Entertainment on day one ... but having that package affects DirecTV's sales and ARPU.


----------



## lparsons21

harsh said:


> ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package. In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.
> 
> You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't (Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).


Nothing 'ideal' is picked by me, just a bogus reply to change the outcome.

Comparisons of nearly like to like are the only thing that matters as most switchers and lookers will do that to determine which is a better deal.

ARPU is about how much the average person is paying on each service, which is more an indication of how well the provider is able to market their packages and get subscribers to pay more.


----------



## harsh

James Long said:


> ARPU is a calculated number that includes commercial accounts ... just like the subscriber counts include "commercial equivalent viewing units". The subscriber numbers are adjusted to reflect both residential and commercial subscribers. The ARPU includes both residential and commercial accounts.
> 
> Differing levels of programming comes from more than just the seasonal NFLST. Based on the ARPU DirecTV does a better job of getting people to pay more per month for their service than DISH. Their ARPU is still less than Premier, let alone adding seasonal sports packages. Comparing similar packages (AT200 vs Choice) is a good way of seeing where DirecTV is getting their extra ARPU dollars. Is it by charging more for the same content or by getting their customers to pay for more content?
> 
> The new customer NFLST deals play into that ... "free NFLST when you subscribe to Premier" raises the subscription level to Premier year round. Perhaps in the second or third year the customer will fall back to a lower package ... or if they don't want NFLST they would select Choice or Entertainment on day one ... but having that package affects DirecTV's sales and ARPU.


I'm not sure how to break up quotes with the new forum software.

Commercial accounts probably aren't increasing much. If anything, with the exclusives that other providers have, some accounts have had to subtract receivers from DIRECTV and add boxes to their local cable operator (or DISH). Comcast has made major inroads in my area due to the absence of PAC12 and Trailblazers coverage on DIRECTV. Nonetheless, the commercial rates are relatively static (and free of many fees and upgrade options that residential customers have).

The point is that the ARPU difference between DIRECTV and DISH has been increasing pretty radically in recent history and I have to think that it has mostly to do with those who are getting into advanced technology on the DIRECTV side (although DIRECTV claims that PPV is catching fire).

The Premier subscriptions that come along with NFLST come with major discounts so that's probably not really a valid argument.


----------



## James Long

harsh said:


> The point is that the ARPU difference between DIRECTV and DISH has been increasing pretty radically in recent history and I have to think that it has mostly to do with those who are getting into advanced technology on the DIRECTV side (although DIRECTV claims that PPV is catching fire).


"Increasing pretty radically" is not an accurate portrayal.



harsh said:


> The Premier subscriptions that come along with NFLST come with major discounts so that's probably not really a valid argument.


Yes, it is. Your claim that NFLST does not affect 1Q ARPU fails when subscribers take a year round higher priced package to get the NFLST discounts.


----------



## harsh

Let's look at the last few years of 1Q ARPU numbers.



Code:


       DTV  DISH  diff percent
2008 79.70 67.93 11.77 14.77%
2009 80.35 70.03 10.32 12.84%
2010 85.47 71.18 14.29 16.72%
2011 88.79 75.39 13.40 15.09%
2012 91.99 76.71 15.28 16.61%
2013 96.05 78.54 17.51 18.23%

So for the last two years, DIRECTV ARPU has been increasing at a much higher rate against the DISH ARPU than several years ago. Comparing DIRECTV 2008 to DIRECTV 2013, the ARPU went up 20.5% versus DISH's 15.6%

I'm not convinced (and I suspect that the savvy DIRECTV NFLST subscriber isn't either) that subscribing to a higher dollar package insures that one is more likely to get discounts on NFLST; especially given DIRECTV's proclaimed success in cutting down on existing customer freebies.


----------



## studechip

harsh said:


> ARPU is actual numbers as opposed to everyone subscribing to your ideal package. In this case, it is not based on NFLST (as NFLST fees aren't in play in Q1). You pretend that NFLST has a relatively large number of residential subscribers and it's becoming less significant as time goes by.
> 
> *You also ignore the monthly offerings that DISH has that DIRECTV doesn't *(Epix movie plex, sports, entertainment and several adult channels).


And you are ignoring the channels that Directv has that Dish doesn't. For example, Directv has YES, Dish doesn't. For me that's a must have channel. Up to a point, the monthly difference between the two doesn't matter. BTW, this argument works both ways.


----------



## harsh

studechip said:


> For example, Directv has YES, Dish doesn't. For me that's a must have channel. Up to a point, the monthly difference between the two doesn't matter. BTW, this argument works both ways.


This is back to the personal preferences argument. The point is that some are served what they want from one provider while others are denied what they want. The YES/MSG argument seems to be DIRECTV's big play (and the DIRECTV fanboy's go-to argument) but it is also one of the main drivers behind everyone in the market having to pay a Regional Sports Fee whether they are interested in the channels or not.


----------



## studechip

So when you make the argument it's okay, but when I do it I'm a fanboy? I've often said YES is the one channel that keeps me a Directv sub. If you think that makes me a fanboy you are sadly mistaken.


----------



## damondlt

studechip said:


> So when you make the argument it's okay, but when I do it I'm a fanboy? I've often said YES is the one channel that keeps me a Directv sub. If you think that makes me a fanboy you are sadly mistaken.


Same here, by no means am I a Directv fanboy. But Dish is entirely not an option for me without them having YES or SNY in the lineup. I can live without the MSGs.


----------



## harsh

studechip said:


> So when you make the argument it's okay, but when I do it I'm a fanboy? I've often said YES is the one channel that keeps me a Directv sub. If you think that makes me a fanboy you are sadly mistaken.


I said it was the fanboy's go-to argument. If it hit too close to home, there's your sign.


----------



## studechip

harsh said:


> I said it was the fanboy's go-to argument. If it hit too close to home, there's your sign.


Since I was the one using the YES argument, it's pretty clear you were referring to me. If not, then who were you referring to?


----------



## harsh

studechip said:


> Since I was the one using the YES argument, it's pretty clear you were referring to me. If not, then who were you referring to?


DIRECTV fanboys. Basic sentence structure.

YES has long been a knee-jerk retort to perceived attacks on DIRECTV as if it were an obvious must-have component in every subscription television viewer's programming lineup.

HERETIC: DIRECTV doesn't have _____ channel
FANBOY: Brand X doesn't have YES

INFIDEL: DIRECTV DVRs are slow
FANBOY: Brand Y doesn't have YES


----------



## RichP74

For me, it came down to the Hopper/Sling combo. I played with a Genie, and it... needs work. I don't have the patience for it, it reminded me of a gen 1 TiVo or something. I'm sure that, like Dish, they will substantially beef up version 2.0 of that box. 

Still, I don't blame anyone for using YES as an excuse. Bandwagoners love both Yankees baseball and DirecTV!


----------



## studechip

harsh said:


> DIRECTV fanboys. Basic sentence structure.
> 
> YES has long been a knee-jerk retort to perceived attacks on DIRECTV as if it were an obvious must-have component in every subscription television viewer's programming lineup.
> 
> HERETIC: DIRECTV doesn't have _____ channel
> FANBOY: Brand X doesn't have YES
> 
> INFIDEL: DIRECTV DVRs are slow
> FANBOY: Brand Y doesn't have YES


Since I am the one in this thread making that argument, you _*are *_referring to me. Like I said, I'm no big Directv supporter. The opposite of your argument is what keeps me with them. It's a must have for me, that doesn't mean in any way that anyone else should agree with me.


----------



## lparsons21

If I were in your market and a sports fan, I wouldn't want Dish either and it is a very valid reason.

Since I'm not either of those things, I can and do switch between services when it is in my best interest. That is the sole reason for doing so.


----------



## joshjr

harsh said:


> DIRECTV fanboys. Basic sentence structure.
> 
> YES has long been a knee-jerk retort to perceived attacks on DIRECTV as if it were an obvious must-have component in every subscription television viewer's programming lineup.
> 
> HERETIC: DIRECTV doesn't have _____ channel
> FANBOY: Brand X doesn't have YES
> 
> INFIDEL: DIRECTV DVRs are slow
> FANBOY: Brand Y doesn't have YES


You know very well there are a lot of reasons people choose DirecTV over Dish. Its not always sports although sports is a big one. For me personally I would not want the Hopper. I prefer the Genie so I can control what's recorded and not be reduced to them recording all of primetime for me. I dont need the box to record crap I dont want it to. Just need it to do what I want it to do. There is an issue with switching, I have a huge setup (15 tuners) that would cost me a fortune at Dish to set and has only cost me a little over $400 with DirecTV, I hear a lot more about owned equipment with DirecTV, I own most of my equipment (4 of 6 DVR's). Contract disputes, Dish's lack of ability to keep their website update (they still show that WB and UPN stations are available), CSR lack of knowledge every time I ever call and ask questions, dual DVR's that only display SD on the 2nd TV, etc. I just do NOT want to deal with all the headaches. Not to mention I recall an article that Clark Howard cancelled service with them due to the fact that he didnt keep a phone cord pulled into his equipment and they kept shutting off receivers as well as accusing him of being dishonest. I just chose not to do business with a company like that. That is a lot and does not even cover Dish's lack of Sports which is MAJOR with me.


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## joshjr

joshjr said:


> You know very well there are a lot of reasons people choose DirecTV over Dish. Its not always sports although sports is a big one. For me personally I would not want the Hopper. I prefer the Genie so I can control what's recorded and not be reduced to them recording all of primetime for me. I dont need the box to record crap I dont want it to. Just need it to do what I want it to do. There is an issue with switching, I have a huge setup (15 tuners) that would cost me a fortune at Dish to set and has only cost me a little over $400 with DirecTV, I hear a lot more about owned equipment with DirecTV, I own most of my equipment (4 of 6 DVR's). Contract disputes, Dish's lack of ability to keep their website update (they still show that WB and UPN stations are available), CSR lack of knowledge every time I ever call and ask questions, dual DVR's that only display SD on the 2nd TV, etc. I just do NOT want to deal with all the headaches. Not to mention I recall an article that Clark Howard cancelled service with them due to the fact that he didnt keep a phone cord pulled into his equipment and they kept shutting off receivers as well as accusing him of being dishonest. I just chose not to do business with a company like that. That is a lot and does not even cover Dish's lack of Sports which is MAJOR with me.


Further more Harsh, here is a list of things I wrote for each provider when someone was deciding on who to go with or better yet who not to go with. I tried to post what I knew and or heard were problems for both. While I carry DirecTV, I do not claim they are perfect either. See below. I am sure there are things on both sides I missed.

If you want to lose channels for periods of time due to contract disputes, not have Sunday Ticket, not have MLB Xtra Innings, not have Mega March Madness, not have other missing HD sports channels, have receivers shut off if you dont keep a phone plugged into them, dont mind the website having information outdated by 5+ years, don't mind the CSR's not being able to answer questions until you have active service with Dish, then DISH is the provider for you. You should sign up today.

If you want to have slower equipment, no sling box, less storage space on the top HD DVR, not have your commercials removed from prime time recordins automatically, not be able to have one receiver control 2 TV's, be restricted to one top level HD DVR on the account, pay and HD fee for life, get incorrectly billed with a hassle getting it removed, lack of premium movie channals available then DirecTV is the provider for you. You should sign up with them today.


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## lparsons21

You've given good reasons for you not to consider a switch.

But since you DID mention it, you must have looked at a very old thread to find one about phone line connection with Dish as that hasn't been a requirement for a very long time.

In your installation switching anywhere would result in a big upfront cost and wouldn't make sense imo. I wouldn't consider changing in that circumstance myself and I'm a big fan of switching! But I have to wonder what the heck you do with 15 tuners? I can't think of a single hour of any day/night that there are even half that many channels worth watching at the same time. But that's just me! 

I have a 2 Hopper installation and haven't had a single issue of missing a show yet and all my shows are on just one of the Hoppers. My son uses his even less than I do, though he does use PIP with some sports. And even though some of those sports are in SD, they are very watcheable with Dish, which certainly is not true of SD with Direct.

I suspect that I'll be making a switch in about 12-15 months though to take advantage of some cost savings, and hopefully by then D* will allow for 2 HR44s.


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## RichP74

joshjr said:


> Further more Harsh, here is a list of things I wrote for each provider when someone was deciding on who to go with or better yet who not to go with. I tried to post what I knew and or heard were problems for both. While I carry DirecTV, I do not claim they are perfect either. See below. I am sure there are things on both sides I missed.
> 
> If you want to lose channels for periods of time due to contract disputes, not have Sunday Ticket, not have MLB Xtra Innings, not have Mega March Madness, not have other missing HD sports channels, have receivers shut off if you dont keep a phone plugged into them, dont mind the website having information outdated by 5+ years, don't mind the CSR's not being able to answer questions until you have active service with Dish, then DISH is the provider for you. You should sign up today.
> 
> If you want to have slower equipment, no sling box, less storage space on the top HD DVR, not have your commercials removed from prime time recordins automatically, not be able to have one receiver control 2 TV's, be restricted to one top level HD DVR on the account, pay and HD fee for life, get incorrectly billed with a hassle getting it removed, lack of premium movie channals available then DirecTV is the provider for you. You should sign up with them today.


I had a good laugh, but most of this is pure exaggeration. I did tons and tons of research last week when deciding whether to go with Dish or Direct, and very few of these things you list are huge deals. Some of these no longer apply, like the dish receiver phone line thing. They didn't even do that when I last had Dish years ago.

The reality is that both Dish and Direct are very, very good services in their present state. It was a much easier choice years ago because the differences were more stark.

For me, it came down to the Hopper/Joey setup being a bit more mature and snappier than the Genie. Also, I liked Dish's iPad 2 offer over the free season of NFL Sunday Ticket (THAT was a really, really tough call as well!). The fact is, I saw everything else being largely equivalent. It is a far different story than it was years ago, when DirecTV's HD picture quality was embarrassingly bad. They certainly turned that around, though. Honestly, at the end of the day I would have been delighted with either service compared to the Charter TV I had been paying for for the last 4-5 years.

The fanboyism and trolling is honestly ridiculous. As somebody who had to deal with both the Dish 7100 (or whatever their first god awful DVR was), and DirecTV's flaky as hell first gen HD boxes (yes, I was a customer of theirs back then as well!), it's almost like everyone has forgotten how far both services have come.

Anyway, rant over. Enjoy your TV this weekend, gentlemen, especially if you're supposed to get rain all weekend like I am!


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## joshjr

lparsons21 said:


> You've given good reasons for you not to consider a switch.
> 
> But since you DID mention it, you must have looked at a very old thread to find one about phone line connection with Dish as that hasn't been a requirement for a very long time.
> 
> In your installation switching anywhere would result in a big upfront cost and wouldn't make sense imo. I wouldn't consider changing in that circumstance myself and I'm a big fan of switching! But I have to wonder what the heck you do with 15 tuners? I can't think of a single hour of any day/night that there are even half that many channels worth watching at the same time. But that's just me!
> 
> I have a 2 Hopper installation and haven't had a single issue of missing a show yet and all my shows are on just one of the Hoppers. My son uses his even less than I do, though he does use PIP with some sports. And even though some of those sports are in SD, they are very watcheable with Dish, which certainly is not true of SD with Direct.
> 
> I suspect that I'll be making a switch in about 12-15 months though to take advantage of some cost savings, and hopefully by then D* will allow for 2 HR44s.


The sports issues alone are a show stopper for me. I want Sunday Ticket and am finding I love MLB Xtra Innings this year as well. I would really have to think about if I wanted to put up with all the other headaches that come with Dish even if the sports problem went away. As for my tuner needs, its more along the lines of having TV available in multiple locations and they might as well be HD DVR's then it is me needing that many tuners. I own 4 of the 6 boxes. The Genie controls my TV only. I need 5 tuners for me and the rest of among the family in the rest of the house.


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## joshjr

RichP74 said:


> *I had a good laugh, but most of this is pure exaggeration*. *I did tons and tons of research last week when deciding whether to go with Dish or Direct, and very few of these things you list are huge deals. * Some of these no longer apply, like the dish receiver phone line thing. They didn't even do that when I last had Dish years ago.
> 
> The reality is that both Dish and Direct are very, very good services in their present state. It was a much easier choice years ago because the differences were more stark.
> 
> For me, it came down to the Hopper/Joey setup being a bit more mature and snappier than the Genie. Also, I liked Dish's iPad 2 offer over the free season of NFL Sunday Ticket (THAT was a really, really tough call as well!). The fact is, I saw everything else being largely equivalent. It is a far different story than it was years ago, when DirecTV's HD picture quality was embarrassingly bad. They certainly turned that around, though. Honestly, at the end of the day I would have been delighted with either service compared to the Charter TV I had been paying for for the last 4-5 years.
> 
> The fanboyism and trolling is honestly ridiculous. As somebody who had to deal with both the Dish 7100 (or whatever their first god awful DVR was), and DirecTV's flaky as hell first gen HD boxes (yes, I was a customer of theirs back then as well!), it's almost like everyone has forgotten how far both services have come.
> 
> Anyway, rant over. Enjoy your TV this weekend, gentlemen, especially if you're supposed to get rain all weekend like I am!


Being an exaggeration vs a big deal are different things. The only thing I see posted that I guess changes was the phone cord to the Dish DVR's. The rest of what I posted is very true. Might not be a big deal but it is true.


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## RichP74

joshjr said:


> Being an exaggeration vs a big deal are different things. The only thing I see posted that I guess changes was the phone cord to the Dish DVR's. The rest of what I posted is very true. Might not be a big deal but it is true.


Contract disputes affect everybody, even the cable guys. In the last few years of Charter, I lost all kinds of channels. They didn't have the NFL Network for FIVE YEARS.

The Sunday Ticket is compelling. No question. If the NFL trumps everything else for you, you would have to be a straight up moron to go with any other service. Personally, I'm happy with Red Zone. Sunday Ticket has just gotten too pricey, plus I'm a fan of my home market team, so really I would just be paying to avoid the odd Sunday late game that sucks.

No idea what you're talking about with 5+ year old info on Dish's website. Really has no bearing on anything.

The Genie is a version 1.0 device. I'm sure it will get better, and quickly. You're also wrong about the lack of Sling-like behavior, the Genie appears to have similar functionality. It's iOS only, so I can see you caring if you have an Android tablet.

Stupid CSRs are everywhere. However, I do like that Dish apparently has reps on all the major forums, and I found them very responsive on their own forum as well. Far better service than I would get by calling them.

So, yes. Your post was full of exaggeration and half truths. Sorry brah. No biggie.


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## lparsons21

joshjr said:


> The sports issues alone are a show stopper for me. I want Sunday Ticket and am finding I love MLB Xtra Innings this year as well. I would really have to think about if I wanted to put up with all the other headaches that come with Dish even if the sports problem went away. As for my tuner needs, its more along the lines of having TV available in multiple locations and they might as well be HD DVR's then it is me needing that many tuners. I own 4 of the 6 boxes. The Genie controls my TV only. I need 5 tuners for me and the rest of among the family in the rest of the house.


I fully understand the sports issues, they are real and I know lots of people that watch a ton of sports. For me, it is boxing and golf, which are both well covered by both services and in fact, Dish has some channels that have less occurring boxing that D* doesn't. Like Bein sports, the Military Channel (not sure if D* has this one), and Epix. Not always the hottest boxers on them, and the Military Channel has military boxing, but a good match is a good match even if the names are not well known. Golf on both is covered well enough on both as I tend to watch matches between catnaps. D* does do more coverage of some of the majors, but I never used the extra coverages so I don't miss them.

My 3 tuners w/PTAT does it for me as the cable type shows are rerun incessantly so that contentions for recording are just not an issue. I've got so many series recorded that I'm way behind in watching them. I've got about 60 timers set and have used up about 1/2 of my internal HD with series and some rare one-off movies that I watch and delete. Movies I watch more than once are on my EHD.

In my case, both services are nearly identical and I have always gotten good service from both companies. I don't find the CSRs at either company to be overly endowed with knowledge nor ability to give proper and consistent answers. I do like the chat feature that E* has because that helps with understanding and proving an issue if needed.

My pet peeve with both services isn't really the service's fault at all, and that is with the premium movie channels. I like a few series they have and the boxing that HBO/SHO/Epix have, but those shows take up very little of the month. The rest of the time it is endless repeats of movies, most of which I don't care to watch. At $45+/month for all of them, it can be very irritating when I think about it.


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## joshjr

RichP74 said:


> Contract disputes affect everybody, even the cable guys. In the last few years of Charter, I lost all kinds of channels. They didn't have the NFL Network for FIVE YEARS.
> 
> The Sunday Ticket is compelling. No question. If the NFL trumps everything else for you, you would have to be a straight up moron to go with any other service. Personally, I'm happy with Red Zone. Sunday Ticket has just gotten too pricey, plus I'm a fan of my home market team, so really I would just be paying to avoid the odd Sunday late game that sucks.
> 
> No idea what you're talking about with 5+ year old info on Dish's website. Really has no bearing on anything.
> 
> The Genie is a version 1.0 device. I'm sure it will get better, and quickly. You're also wrong about the lack of Sling-like behavior, the Genie appears to have similar functionality. It's iOS only, so I can see you caring if you have an Android tablet.
> 
> Stupid CSRs are everywhere. However, I do like that Dish apparently has reps on all the major forums, and I found them very responsive on their own forum as well. Far better service than I would get by calling them.
> 
> So, yes. Your post was full of exaggeration and half truths. Sorry brah. No biggie.


For the old information on their website, go to where you can see what locals are offered, enter 74354 (We dont have a CW affiliate here) and see that Superstations are offered. The funny thing is the ones offered are not CW or My Network TV. They are UPN and WB. Neither have been in business since 2006. As for the slower receivers with DirecTV, that is just from what people post but you yourself admit they will be faster but I was not just referring to the Genie. The sling box allows people to watch TV live from somewhere else. I have a iPad but the content you can watch out of your home is very very limited. Thats not really the same as a sling box. As for the reps, granted that is with every company. It has been my experience that I have NEVER had a call with Dish ever where they were able to answer all of my questions. Not one single time. So if you take that one off and the fact that Dish allowed receivers to function without a phone cable that is 2 things not most things in my list.


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## RichP74

joshjr said:


> For the old information on their website, go to where you can see what locals are offered, enter 74354 (We dont have a CW affiliate here) and see that Superstations are offered. The funny thing is the ones offered are not CW or My Network TV. They are UPN and WB. Neither have been in business since 2006. As for the slower receivers with DirecTV, that is just from what people post but you yourself admit they will be faster but I was not just referring to the Genie. The sling box allows people to watch TV live from somewhere else. I have a iPad but the content you can watch out of your home is very very limited. Thats not really the same as a sling box. As for the reps, granted that is with every company. It has been my experience that I have NEVER had a call with Dish ever where they were able to answer all of my questions. Not one single time. So if you take that one off and the fact that Dish allowed receivers to function without a phone cable that is 2 things not most things in my list.


Ah, that is a shame. I could swear Direct advertised being able to watch live TV using an iPad. I'm sure they'll add it soon, regardless. It's a pretty compelling feature, and it sounds like they're most of the way there with allowing DVR'ed shows.


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## joshjr

RichP74 said:


> Ah, that is a shame. I could swear Direct advertised being able to watch live TV using an iPad. I'm sure they'll add it soon, regardless. It's a pretty compelling feature, and it sounds like they're most of the way there with allowing DVR'ed shows.


You can, at home on the same network the receivers are on. Dish has 7 year old UNTRUE information on their site. Your description of DirecTV's is not even close to 7 years old and you can watch live tv on an iPad. Nice try though.


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## RichP74

joshjr said:


> You can, at home on the same network the receivers are on. Dish has 7 year old UNTRUE information on their site. Your description of DirecTV's is not even close to 7 years old and you can watch live tv on an iPad. Nice try though.


You can't watch it on a Cellular connection? That is pretty pointless.


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## lparsons21

It isn't pointless, but it isn't very flexible. Live TV on your portable device as long as you're in your own network is OK, but nothing to crow about.

I like that I can view live or recorded from anywhere that I can get on the internet much better.


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## harsh

studechip said:


> Since I am the one in this thread making that argument, you _*are *_referring to me.


If I had been referring to you, I would have used the reference "you" or "studechip". As it is, I referenced, very specifically, DIRECTV fanboys.

Use of the argument does not necessarily make one part of the class.


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## harsh

joshjr said:


> If you want to lose channels for periods of time due to contract disputes, not have Sunday Ticket, not have MLB Xtra Innings, not have Mega March Madness, not have other missing HD sports channels, have receivers shut off if you dont keep a phone plugged into them, dont mind the website having information outdated by 5+ years, don't mind the CSR's not being able to answer questions until you have active service with Dish, then DISH is the provider for you.


While some of these arguments are valid, a handful of them are false and as such, your post does more damage to your reputation than it does impugn the offerings of DISH or elevate DIRECTV as the clear choice.

My point is that everyone's perspective is different. Insisting that the presence or absence of an individual's hand-picked group of channels makes all the difference is silly.

I've never suggested that DIRECTV isn't the best match for you as an individual. I only question some of the arguments that appear to have lead you to that conclusion.


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## joshjr

harsh said:


> While some of these arguments are valid, a handful of them are false and as such, *your post does more damage to your reputation than it does impugn the offerings of DISH *or elevate DIRECTV as the clear choice.
> 
> My point is that everyone's perspective is different. Insisting that the presence or absence of an individual's hand-picked group of channels makes all the difference is silly.
> 
> I've never suggested that DIRECTV isn't the best match for you as an individual. I only question some of the arguments that appear to have lead you to that conclusion.


I think I will live but thanks for your concern.


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## RasputinAXP

ESPN 3D's ready to go away, now. I could see the rest going poof soon too.


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## damondlt

RasputinAXP said:


> ESPN 3D's ready to go away, now. I could see the rest going poof soon too.


What does this have to do with anything.
3D has been dead before it was alive, Has nothing to do with Directv or Dish Network.

Its got to do with the public not falling for a dumb yuppy premium gimmick Like 3D TV.


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