# 1080i problem



## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

I have a Dell 4100mp projector and this wonderful 921 dish receiver. I have owned the projector for almost a year now and dell has sent me four diferent projectors. The image quality is good for the price but the projector is cheaply made and prone to flaws, much like the 921.

My problem occured just lately and has not happened the entire time i have owned the projector. Two projectors ago I had a problem with the projo and sent it back to dell. They replaced it with a new one. As soon as I set up the projo and turned it to my satellite feed which is a DVI connection, i noticed a huge vertical black bar covering the right 1/4 of the screen.I messed with settings on the projo and plugged and unplugged the projo several times. While I still had the original projector, i set it back up and the bar never appeared. I put the replacement projo back on and the bar appeared again. Dell has now sent me a replacement projo for the last one and it also has the bar. The funny thing is that the bar disappears if I change the outpu to 720P, 480P, or 480i. It only happens on 1080i. 

I have included a picture to see if anyone else recognizes this problem and knows a solution.


----------



## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

rice0209 said:


> I have a Dell 4100mp projector and this wonderful 921 dish receiver. I have owned the projector for almost a year now and dell has sent me four diferent projectors. The image quality is good for the price but the projector is cheaply made and prone to flaws, much like the 921.
> 
> My problem occured just lately and has not happened the entire time i have owned the projector. Two projectors ago I had a problem with the projo and sent it back to dell. They replaced it with a new one. As soon as I set up the projo and turned it to my satellite feed which is a DVI connection, i noticed a huge vertical black bar covering the right 1/4 of the screen.I messed with settings on the projo and plugged and unplugged the projo several times. While I still had the original projector, i set it back up and the bar never appeared. I put the replacement projo back on and the bar appeared again. Dell has now sent me a replacement projo for the last one and it also has the bar. The funny thing is that the bar disappears if I change the outpu to 720P, 480P, or 480i. It only happens on 1080i.
> 
> I have included a picture to see if anyone else recognizes this problem and knows a solution.


Is your projector image setting at 16:9 or 4:3? also check too see if it's at NTSC signal


----------



## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

My projector is set to 4:3 as is my satellite receiver and the signal should be NTSC as that is the standard for this receiver. I do not believe it is capable of any other type of signal, such as PAL, etc.


----------



## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

Try Power cord re-booting the 921. I have seen this with my 921 (not in some time though).


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

Maybe the projector doesn't handle 1080 format. If it's fixed pixel based example DLP or LCoS it may be limited to 1280X720 meaning 720p would be the best setting. The 1080 may be forcing the projector to interpolate.


----------



## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

The projector does run 1080i. It said so in the manual and on the internet when i bought it. After I started having this problem, I checked to make sure it could take it.


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

rice0209 said:


> My projector is set to 4:3 as is my satellite receiver and the signal should be NTSC as that is the standard for this receiver.


Is there a wide screen setting for your projector. The newer signals are ATSC example 480p, 720p & 1080i.

Also if the number of pixels that the projector can produce are limited to 1280X720 then the 1080 format doesn't buy you anymore resolution so selecting 720p and letting the 921 interpolate would most likely be the best option.

I'm sure you're doing this, but just out of curiousity when you change the input setting on the projector you're also setting the output (thru view pref menu) of the 921 to that same format?


----------



## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

jergenf said:


> Is there a wide screen setting for your projector. The newer signals are ATSC example 480p, 720p & 1080i.
> 
> Also if the number of pixels that the projector can produce are limited to 1280X720 then the 1080 format doesn't buy you anymore resolution so selecting 720p and letting the 921 interpolate would most likely be the best option.
> 
> I'm sure you're doing this, but just out of curiousity when you change the input setting on the projector you're also setting the output (thru view pref menu) of the 921 to that same format?


I grabbed this off of the user's guide online at dell.com for my projector:

Compatibility with NTSC, NTSC4.43, PAL, PAL-M, PAL-N, SECAM, and HDTV (1080i, 720p, 576i/p, 480i/p)
High-definition TV compatibility

It does not say ATSC but it does say that it excepts 1080i. The thing is is that two of the old projectors i had from dell, both 4100mp's that were replaced for different reasons worked just fine when i had the same 921 receiver set to 1080i. Now all of a sudden that last two 4100mp's won't work with it. The only thing i can think of is they changed the prjectors at some point and made them not compatible with my set up. Just to note, when i first discovered this problem with the replacement dell 4100, i plugged the old one it was replacing back in and the problem was not there. That old projo had another problem though and unfortunately had to be sent back.

Here is another feature that might help as far as resolutions:

True XGA (1024 x 768) native resolution
Auto image re-sizing (Auto-Sync) to 1024x 768 full screen with scaling compression compatibility for UXGA, SXGA+, SXGA, XGA, SVGA, VGA, MAC

I do have an option to switch between 16:9 and 4:3 but I leave it on 4:3 since i watch a lot of 4:3 material. When a widescreen movie or show (HDTV) comes on, the projector stays at 4:3 and just does not use the top and bottom portions of the DLP chip. I wish it had a vertical compression lens system internally like some projectors and tv's do but to be honest, the hdtv image on a 4:3 setting still looks ultra sharp. Besides, my sister's sony that has vertical compression misinterprets her signal from her 942 receiver and makes everything letterbox since it upconverts everything to 480p or higher. She has black bars on the sides and top/bottom if the signal was intended to be 480i initially(locals). I digress though.

Also since the projector auto syncs the resolution with whatever signal it receives, i never have to change any settings on the projector, only on the satellite receivers as far as what it outputs. Currently, I do run my receiver on 720p. It would just be nice to know why in 1080i mode it developed this weird problem with cutting off the right side of the screen and to know i can run 1080i material on this projector sometime in the future.


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

rice0209 said:


> I grabbed this off of the user's guide online at dell.com for my projector:
> 
> Compatibility with NTSC, NTSC4.43, PAL, PAL-M, PAL-N, SECAM, and HDTV (1080i, 720p, 576i/p, 480i/p)
> High-definition TV compatibility
> ...


I think this is the model (see below) you have and hopefully the specs are correct. The native resolution for this DLP projector is 1024x768 (4:3 ratio). It doesn't mention 576i/p (PAL & SECAM) or 16:9 aspect ratio setting. And ATSC (digital OTA standard that replaced NTSC analog) is being handled by your 921 receiver. When your component (or DVI) output is connected to your projector you loosing some picture on the right side when the 921 is set to 1080i but not on 720p (correct?).

Some things to experiment with. Hopefully you recorded the HD Net Test pattern, if not you can obtain it on Tuesday at 6AM (EST).

First try moving your screen position thru the view pref menu of the 921. See if that restores the right side. On my wide screen CRT the 4:3 is not perfectly centered because I move the position up and to the right in order to get channel listing display without clipping off information. Also the overscan got worse since L215 came out but there's noting you can do about that.

Second try 1080i with 4:3 aspect ratio setting (or is that what you're already set to?) to see what effect that has. Originally I thought your projector was 1280x720 (16:9) native. I think if you select 1080i or 720p with 16:9 your picture might become vertically stretched.

Since the native resolution is 768p I feel your best setting would be 720p at 4:3 (meaning letterbox mode during HD but full screen normally). The 921 will still show 1080 content but interpolate it to 720p. But if you prefer the 1080i setting then try each of those things to see what effect it has.

```
[SIZE=2]Dell 4100MP Projector Specifications
MSRP (USD) : $ 1,699 
Brightness (Lumens) : 2200 ANSI 
Contrast: Full On/Off: 2000:1 
Throw Dist (feet) :  3.9 - 39.4 
Image Size (inches) : 24.4 - 292.5 
Lens: Focus:  Manual 
Zoom: Manual, 1.20:1 
Digital Zoom: Yes 
Keystone Correction: Digital H+V 
Compatibility: HDTV: 1080i, 720p  
EDTV/480p: Yes 
SDTV/480i: Yes 
Component Video: Yes 
Video: Yes 
Digital Input: M1-DA(P&D) 
Personal Computers: Yes 
Warranty: 2 Years 
Lamp: Type:  250W UHP 
Life: 1500 hours 
Eco-Mode Life: 3000 hours 
Quantity: 1 
Display: Type:  DLP (1) 
Native: [B]1024x768[/B] Pixels 
Maximum: 1600x1200 Pixels 
Aspect Ratio: [B]4:3 (XGA)[/B] 
H-Sync Range: 15.0 - 100.0kHz 
V-Sync Range: 43 - 120Hz 
Speakers: 2.0W+ 2.0W 
Max Power: 310W 
Voltage: 90V - 240V[/SIZE]
```


----------



## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think this is the model (see below) you have and hopefully the specs are correct. The native resolution for this DLP projector is 1024x768 (4:3 ratio). It doesn't mention 576i/p (PAL & SECAM) or 16:9 aspect ratio setting. And ATSC (digital OTA standard that replaced NTSC analog) is being handled by your 921 receiver. When your component (or DVI) output is connected to your projector you loosing some picture on the right side when the 921 is set to 1080i but not on 720p (correct?).

Some things to experiment with. Hopefully you recorded the HD Net Test pattern, if not you can obtain it on Tuesday at 6AM (EST).

First try moving your screen position thru the view pref menu of the 921. See if that restores the right side. On my wide screen CRT the 4:3 is not perfectly centered because I move the position up and to the right in order to get channel listing display without clipping off information. Also the overscan got worse since L215 came out but there's noting you can do about that.

Second try 1080i with 4:3 aspect ratio setting (or is that what you're already set to?) to see what effect that has. Originally I thought your projector was 1280x720 (16:9) native. I think if you select 1080i or 720p with 16:9 your picture might become vertically stretched.

Since the native resolution is 768p I feel your best setting would be 720p at 4:3 (meaning letterbox mode during HD but full screen normally). The 921 will still show 1080 content but interpolate it to 720p. But if you prefer the 1080i setting then try each of those things to see what effect it has.

Thanks for your reply jergen. My projector does have a 16:9 option, but it is a native 4:3 ratio dlp chip. It will stretch images if i switch a 16:9 format to 4:3. I have a 4:3 screen and watch a lot of 4:3 content so i leave my projector and dish receiver at 4:3. The picture quality is still excellent when a 16:9 movie comes along and it just goes into letterbox mode. I will try your other suggestions and see if it helps. Dell sent another projector out just today, so we will see if #5 acts like #1 and #2 projectors did. 

Also as far as ATSC, the projector must be capable of the signal type as I receive OTA digital station in HD already and they work fine. So far I have noticed that all the stations are 16:9 standard and none are 4:3. They always project in 16:9 and the commerical are terrboxed vertically and horizontally since they are not true hd commercials.


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

rice0209 said:


> Thanks for your reply jergen. My projector does have a 16:9 option, but it is a native 4:3 ratio dlp chip. It will stretch images if i switch a 16:9 format to 4:3. I have a 4:3 screen and watch a lot of 4:3 content so i leave my projector and dish receiver at 4:3. The picture quality is still excellent when a 16:9 movie comes along and it just goes into letterbox mode. I will try your other suggestions and see if it helps. Dell sent another projector out just today, so we will see if #5 acts like #1 and #2 projectors did. .


If I understand correctly you set your 921 to either 720p @ 4:3 or 1080i @ 4:3
and then you switch the projector to 16:9 when viewing widescreen and back to 4:3 for normal viewing. What happens when you change format using the * button on the 921 remote? Stretch, Zoom, Gray Bars and Normal work differently depending if I'm in HD (component/DVI) versus SD (s-video). Wondering if the component output works the same way as the SD (s-video) output does on mine because you're set to 720p or 1080i @ 4:3 where mine is 1080i @ 16:9?



rice0209 said:


> Also as far as ATSC, the projector must be capable of the signal type as I receive OTA digital station in HD already and they work fine. So far I have noticed that all the stations are 16:9 standard and none are 4:3. They always project in 16:9 and the commerical are terrboxed vertically and horizontally since they are not true hd commercials.


Correct your component input complies with the ATSC standard (480p, 720p, 1080i) and your s-video input complies with NTSC standard (480i). But the actual NTSC and ATSC tuners are in the 921.


----------



## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

jergenf said:


> If I understand correctly you set your 921 to either 720p @ 4:3 or 1080i @ 4:3
> and then you switch the projector to 16:9 when viewing widescreen and back to 4:3 for normal viewing. What happens when you change format using the * button on the 921 remote? Stretch, Zoom, Gray Bars and Normal work differently depending if I'm in HD (component/DVI) versus SD (s-video). Wondering if the component output works the same way as the SD (s-video) output does on mine because you're set to 720p or 1080i @ 4:3 where mine is 1080i @ 16:9?


Correct. I run my satellite always in 4:3 mode at 720p now because of the problem I have with 1080i. I never take the satellite out of 4:3 mode because i watch so much 4:3 content. As far as the projector, when i am watching satellite, it always stays in 4:3 mode and just has a letterboxed image when watching HD. When I play my x-box and it has a game in true HD, the projo automatically switches to 16:9 since that is what it is receiving. It has automatic switching of 4:3 to 16:9 depended on the signal it receives. Since the satellite is in 4:3 mode, the projector always thinks its getting 4:3 content even if its an hd movie. The quality is really good without going through the extra steps of switching the satellite to 16:9 so I don't bother with it, i just leave it in 4:3.

The only output I use for my satellite is a DVI cable ran into an M1-DA port on the back of the projector. Dell and Infocus made the "smart" decision that M1-DA would be a better port than DVI and needless to say it was poorly received by the masses. I had to buy an adapter to convert my DVI input to the M1-DA port. It has always worked, and as i said, when the problem first occured I thought it could be the cable. When i hooked the old projector up before sending it back, the missing right side did not occur. So I know its not the cable. As far as using the format button, it only works for me on 16:9 material since 4:3 material is the default for my receiver.



jergenf said:


> Correct your component input complies with the ATSC standard (480p, 720p, 1080i) and your s-video input complies with NTSC standard (480i). But the actual NTSC and ATSC tuners are in the 921.


In addition, the new projector received today, #5, does not work. Same problem with 1080i. I wish i had another projector with similiar specs to test this problem with. I am wondering if it is a dell 4100 mp problem or something else. I can only imagine its a dell problem since i did your test with moving the screen image through the receiver. When i moved it, the info that is cut off appeared meaning the satellite is sending it out, but the projector is not displaying it.

Like I said earlier, the only thing I can think of is that somewhere in the run of Dell 4100 mp's, they changed software or some internal hardware that causes this problem in certain situations. They do not sell this projector anymore so it makes me think that I am not the only customer that has had multiple issues with their product. They have not came out with a replacement for the 4100mp. Their is a huge performance gap from the model below and above the 4100mp. I bet they are reworking the design before they debut another. This is so frustrating. I have tried to ask to pay to upgrade to any other projector but they keep telling me that I am outside my 21 day return policy so they can only exchange for the same model.


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

rice0209 said:


> When I play my *x-box * and it has a *game in true HD*, the projo automatically switches to 16:9 since that is what it is receiving.


The X-box only does SD (480i/p) unless you already have the new X-box 360 (which should be available to the general public in 2006). Note that 480i or 480p can do 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio, it's really the number of vertical lines that are count. If you have a VGA or RGB input on your projector then should be able to play PC games at hi-res.


----------



## rice0209 (Oct 11, 2005)

the x-box is capable of displaying 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i. The game i was referring to is x-men legends II which is a 720p game according to the back. My projector even says its receiving a 720p signal. The nex x-box 360 will be a better quality due to the fully digital HDMI connection, but is capable of the same modes as the original x-box. Xbox 360 will be available nov 22, 2005.


----------



## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

rice0209 said:


> the x-box is capable of displaying 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i. The game i was referring to is x-men legends II which is a 720p game according to the back. My projector even says its receiving a 720p signal. The nex x-box 360 will be a better quality due to the fully digital HDMI connection, but is capable of the same modes as the original x-box. Xbox 360 will be available nov 22, 2005.


Thanks for clearing that up, I thought they only had s-video output because they used a Nvidia geforce 2 card.


----------

