# Dish Network Drops CSN California - Channel Restored 2/3/11



## forecheck (Jun 13, 2002)

No more Sharks or Sac Kings games for those in Northern California for now.

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=544482

CSN's response from the article:



> "EchoStar's Dish Network has disregarded the FCC arbitration process and turned its back on its own customers by unilaterally dropping Comcast SportsNet California. After losing the arbitration that they themselves initiated, Dish Network decided to deny fans access to this network rather than accept the outcome of the arbitration. We hope that Dish will quickly realize that refusing to accept the arbitration decision is detrimental to consumers, and restore Comcast SportsNet California under the contract decided by the arbitrator."


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

If they ""lost" in arbitration, whether they initiated it or not, what does Dish get out of it? I would expect them to drop it.. They are not going to deliver a channel at a loss. Would you?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH's website on the matter is http://www.fairdealforyou.com/.



> DISH Network and Comcast are in negotiations regarding Comcast SportsNet California.
> 
> At this time, DISH Network has been unable to reach a fair and reasonable agreement for continued carriage of the channel with its owner, Comcast, our largest cable competitor in the market. We continue to negotiate with Comcast and are hopeful we will be able to reach a fair deal.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

So how does this work? Comcast Bay Area (the main stay of the SF Giants) is still functional at this time, Comcast SportsNet "Cally" the flag ship of the Oakland A's has one of those "Important Press Release" tags........ will all Comcast go away or just selected ones ? This stuff has become very BORING........ 

:icon_band


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

Yeah it's become boring and getting very old. I happen to be a huge Sharks fan and this could be the last straw. If Dish forgets about us than I will have to finally FIRE Dish!

Geez I can't wait till companies like Dish, Comcast, and DTV become irrelevant and we buy our TV over the internet from who we want to.


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## cjrleimer (Nov 17, 2004)

356B said:


> So how does this work? Comcast Bay Area (the main stay of the SF Giants) is still functional at this time, Comcast SportsNet "Cally" the flag ship of the Oakland A's has one of those "Important Press Release" tags........ will all Comcast go away or just selected ones ? This stuff has become very BORING........
> 
> :icon_band


CSNBA is still up CSN California has been dropped from Dish. I wonder how many are going to switch or go to the pubs because of this.


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## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

Dish is a horrific provider of sports. Its about time the word gets out so real sports fan can have a place to go for the best.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Frickin' great. This is the 4th major issue this year. Everytime the California market starts picking up a bit of momentum, a programming dispute comes up and kills it. Most households have "sports people", and when we constantly hear about disputes with sports channels, those folks simply stay away from Dish, even if *their* sports aren't affected.

I know the issue is bigger than that, but it gets really, really old.


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## paja (Oct 23, 2006)

BattleZone said:


> Frickin' great. This is the 4th major issue this year. Everytime the California market starts picking up a bit of momentum, a programming dispute comes up and kills it. Most households have "sports people", and when we constantly hear about disputes with sports channels, those folks simply stay away from Dish, even if *their* sports aren't affected.
> 
> I know the issue is bigger than that, but it gets really, really old.


Good point. It is not only the subs DISH loses during all these disputes, it is the people who they will never have a chance of getting as subs. Even subs who aren't rabid fans at least want access to their homes teams.


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

Well I've left angry messages on this board before threatening to leave Dish over HD channels I want, but I never acted upon that.

This one is more serious to us. We've been with Dish since 97 and we are already doing our research for "Plan B". 

One week Dish, you have one week to bring back CSN-CA!

Just curious, why did Dish decide not to abide by the arbitration decision that they asked for?


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## cjrleimer (Nov 17, 2004)

paja said:


> Good point. It is not only the subs DISH loses during all these disputes, it is the people who they will never have a chance of getting as subs. Even subs who aren't rabid fans at least want access to their homes teams.


Definetly and this not only affects Sharks fans but Kings fans as well and if it goes long enough A's fans so it is a MSG type dispute in away with multiple teams effected.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

If cost is no object, as it will cost you extra, more than likely to go elsewhere, the Dish technology you use to perhaps record your shows is expendable, then you may as well hurry up and leave..

Dish in the 10+ years I've been with them as been in negotiation for channels over and over again, and I think they've done their level best to control costs. But if all you care about is one single sports channel or a few... Time to move on I guess

As for the CA market, TV or otherwise, with the results of the recent election in that state, CA only has one direction to go, and thats further downhill.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

eudoxia said:


> Geez I can't wait till companies like Dish, Comcast, and DTV become irrelevant and we buy our TV over the internet from who we want to.


Will there be enough bandwidth for that? And will cable internet providers go for that? I'm sure they would want you to subscribe to their TV service first before getting TV channels over the internet.


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Will there be enough bandwidth for that? And will cable internet providers go for that? I'm sure they would want you to subscribe to their TV service first before getting TV channels over the internet.


Your right according to todays rules. Comcast has an exclusive deal with the Sharks and you need their sports channel to watch them.

However, who knows how all this will pan out in the next few years. Netflix, Hulu, and others want to provide content while the networks are are getting smart now to serve their own content online. Google, Apple, and Microsoft are certainly going to be players. Every device and TV coming with ethernet ports and "apps" to play internet content and then the whole mobile market.

If you've ever heard any of the podcasts with Leo Laporte on Twit.tv, he often refers to this as "we want to buy our bits wholesale" instead of retail from Dish or others. Leo believes it will be about 10 years for this market to pan out. I think it will still be ruled by the big corporations, but hopefully with more competition and maybe finally "a la carte". And bandwidth and compression technology is going crazy fast so I don't think that will be a problem. I'm getting twice the speed through my DSL twisted pair then I got a couple years ago for the same price.


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

normang said:


> If they ""lost" in arbitration, whether they initiated it or not, what does Dish get out of it? I would expect them to drop it.. They are not going to deliver a channel at a loss. Would you?


I understand that this arbitration isn't binding, but why go through the process, if you are just going to take your toys and go home if it doesn't go your way?

The only reason I can see is that they can show their subs that they are trying, even though by the outcome, they had no intention of doing so.

Also, what does this show future networks that they have disputes with? Dish has always released statements encouraging those networks they are in dispute with to stay on while negotiations proceed. Based on this stunt why would I, as a network, leave my product on Dish, who would drop it anyway if the negotiated terms don't suit them.


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

normang said:


> If cost is no object, as it will cost you extra, more than likely to go elsewhere, the Dish technology you use to perhaps record your shows is expendable, then you may as well hurry up and leave..
> 
> Dish in the 10+ years I've been with them as been in negotiation for channels over and over again, and I think they've done their level best to control costs. But if all you care about is one single sports channel or a few... Time to move on I guess
> 
> As for the CA market, TV or otherwise, with the results of the recent election in that state, CA only has one direction to go, and thats further downhill.


Political, editorial, and off-topic


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## cjrleimer (Nov 17, 2004)

The thing that suprised me is it wasnt publiclly mentioned alot in the media. This was out of the blue I think.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

forecheck said:


> No more Sharks or Sac Kings games for those in Northern California for now.
> 
> http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=544482
> 
> CSN's response from the article:


I just Googled CSNBA and the A's and Sharks are on it.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

cjrleimer said:


> The thing that suprised me is it wasnt publiclly mentioned alot in the media. This was out of the blue I think.


Because it's not a big deal. It's a few sports games of some kind. No big whoop.

I for one am glad Dish is standing up to the tyrants trying to stuff their pockets at the expense of consumers. Good for Charlie!.


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

SayWhat? said:


> Because it's not a big deal. It's a few sports games of some kind. No big whoop.
> 
> I for one am glad Dish is standing up to the tyrants trying to stuff their pockets at the expense of consumers. Good for Charlie!.


And Charlie is not a tyrant? Maybe he is, maybe not, but being a consumer and having choices is more important than blind loyalty to a company.


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## KEEFP (Aug 13, 2002)

CSNBA (419) doesn't have any HD programming - is this due to the dispute with Comcast?


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## dstout (Jul 19, 2005)

I don't understand you guys that tell somebody that is upset about a channel being dropped to hit the road.

What if it was your favorite channel? Your favorite show?

Do you guys get Christmas cards from Charlie or something?

Unless they are sending you a check, I don't understand your loyalty to a provider.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Some people are realists and learn to deal with it.. Others, not so much..


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## dstout (Jul 19, 2005)

Norm,

Do you mean, learn to deal with their tv provider getting fights with programmers?


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

Not sure how long you've been a Dish Sub DSTOUT, but in the 12 years or so I've been one, its happened several times where channels have come and gone. Sometimes several of them in the case of Rainbow HD channels a few years ago. Some I miss, some I don't.

However threatening to switch to another service as I see it doesn't accomplish much, the same thing could happen to the other provider at negotiation time, or you pay more somewhere else for the privilege of getting that one channel, perhaps at the sacrifice of others that the other service may not carry, that perhaps you don't care about as much, but you still may not have the same channels as you did before. Or you wind up with inferior equipment to what Dish provides potentially at a higher price.. But you have that missing channel.. Which may eventually come back on Dish..

Then there is the hassle of canceling your service, possibly returning leased equipment or selling it, getting new service, installing new equipment, perhaps paying early termination fees if your on a contract. But you got that channel back...


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## dstout (Jul 19, 2005)

Norm,

I am not a DISH sub,I used to be.

Dropping channels is why I wouldn't be. I know DirecTV has had their issues too, but they don't seem to be as frequent.

I really don't buy what Charlie is selling(that he cares about the consumers bill).


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## elbodude (Jul 13, 2006)

This does is it for me and Dish. I give them a week max, or I am gone. ETF or not.


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## jeffgbailey (Feb 29, 2008)

and its interesting how the "Charlie backers" are saying he's fighting to keep the bills lower yet didnt Dish do a 2 time raise on prices/receiver fees this year?


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

normang said:


> Not sure how long you've been a Dish Sub DSTOUT, but in the 12 years or so I've been one, its happened several times where channels have come and gone. Sometimes several of them in the case of Rainbow HD channels a few years ago. Some I miss, some I don't.
> 
> However threatening to switch to another service as I see it doesn't accomplish much, the same thing could happen to the other provider at negotiation time, or you pay more somewhere else for the privilege of getting that one channel, perhaps at the sacrifice of others that the other service may not carry, that perhaps you don't care about as much, but you still may not have the same channels as you did before. Or you wind up with inferior equipment to what Dish provides potentially at a higher price.. But you have that missing channel.. Which may eventually come back on Dish..
> 
> Then there is the hassle of canceling your service, possibly returning leased equipment or selling it, getting new service, installing new equipment, perhaps paying early termination fees if your on a contract. But you got that channel back...


However there is a possibility that by switching providers you will get the channels you want and save a lot of money to boot. This is what will currently happen if I fire Dish and goto DTV (which I'm about to do). I will have the same channels I like, however some are not HD yet (which will eventually happen). Yeah some different equipment I'll have to get used to, but the programming is the most important to me and Sharks hockey is very important to me. We each have our preferences and as consumers should choose the best product for the best price.

Worst case scenario, I don't like the DTV product. I still pay lower bills for 2 years and when my time is up, I switch back to Dish and probably get a GREAT DEAL as a new customer (because they always get the better deals)

I don't follow your logic.


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

If you think you'll save $$ go for it.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jeffgbailey said:


> and its interesting how the "Charlie backers" are saying he's fighting to keep the bills lower yet didnt Dish do a 2 time raise on prices/receiver fees this year?


Think about it this way...

Customers can switch providers and save money for 1-2 years... and many do this regularly. It's fine if you don't mind switching everything up every couple of years, and it's your right to do so.

Similarly, the providers sometimes decide to negotiate for lower contracts and sometimes drop channels if they don't like the prices. This is similarly their right to do just like you have the right to switch providers to save money when it suits you.

It isn't a matter of "defending" Charlie... it's more a matter of recognizing reality at work.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Think about it this way...
> 
> Customers can switch providers and save money for 1-2 years... and many do this regularly. It's fine if you don't mind switching everything up every couple of years, and it's your right to do so.
> 
> ...


But when you lose channels over pricing AND the prices on that provider are not that much different than others, is it really worth it? Especially when they lose subs as well and lose channel more frequently than any other provider


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

DodgerKing said:


> But when you lose channels over pricing AND the prices on that provider are not that much different than others, is it really worth it? Especially when they lose subs as well and lose channel more frequently than any other provider


The issue here is that you really don't know what the cost is or the impact might be, this has never been public knowledge that I've seen.

Unless you have inside data, that tells you what the cost is, and what the potential impact is, its all just a guess.

The bottom-line is that the system maybe broken, too many programmers with speculative programming all wanting more money for someone to deliver their channel, one would think that this is a symbiotic relationship, the programmer has content, Dish and others have delivery.

You would think delivery would have an upper hand in this, no one sees your programming unless its delivered. But because there is usually only one programmer source in the mix for a channel, and there are multiple delivery providers, consumers can jump all over the place to get the channels they want.

While this is perhaps a good thing for the consumer, it allows the programmer to keep jacking up the prices, because the delivery system in competition with each other lets them do it, because all it takes is one provider that gives the programmer what he wants, then gives the programmer the basis to say; see, my channel is worth X, for the rest of them, even if its really not.

Course there is probably a slew of other issues and details that can go into a negotiation for a channel delivery contract, but this is going to happen over and over again, and people are going to do whatever they want, even if its to their disadvantage in some, but not all cases to get what they want.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

All I know is that Dish subs are not paying that much less for most COMPARABLE setups as subs with other providers and these other providers do not lose channels near as often as Dish.

(Don't compare average price per sub as this does not apply. I said comparable setup. Other providers offer packages, such as ST, which raises the mean price).


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> All I know is that Dish subs are not paying that much less for most COMPARABLE setups as subs with other providers and these other providers do not lose channels near as often as Dish.
> 
> (Don't compare average price per sub as this does not apply. I said comparable setup. Other providers offer packages, such as ST, which raises the mean price).


In those same Base packages, Dish subs get alot more HD channels, almost 20 more nowadays vs most others, without having to spend more on extra sports channels, or in PPV/Cinema channels, as they would with other providers, telco's, cables, or Direct. As for channel pricing disagreements, once the economy went south, and since it really hasn't bounced back, we see more and more agruements over pricing with just about every carrier, granted Charlie and Dish did it even when the economy was being inflated on a false high. Cable and Telco companies fight with providers, Dish and Direct have been fighting with providers as well. Just like with Vs, and Now G4, with Direct, Dish will get this sports channel resolved. 
Sorry except for Voom, and Smithsonian, nothing has left Dish that hasn't comeback once the fight over pricing, was resolved.
Name a provider, you can find a fight, or a upcoming fight. Dish fights over pricing while adding as many HD channels as possible into the base packages. Carriers like Direct, wait years, to add popular channels. Trying to figure out which is worse, having to wait years for a channel to show up and then having to deal with a pricing battle, or just having to deal with a channel being SD only or subsituted during a pricing battle.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Does anyone think that it may be a bit disingenuous: Dish Network asked for the arbitration process but then had no problem walking away when the outcome wasn't to their liking.

I'm all for using the tools at your disposal, but when arguing that you need to keep rates down while increasing your rates twice and terminating three sets of channels this year makes it look like the customers are a bunch of tools.


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## Eksynyt (Feb 8, 2008)

If Dish keeps having these idiotic carriage disputes, they're gonna go bankrupt. I hope it happens.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Greg Bimson said:


> Does anyone think that it may be a bit disingenuous: Dish Network asked for the arbitration process but then had no problem walking away when the outcome wasn't to their liking.
> 
> I'm all for using the tools at your disposal, but when arguing that you need to keep rates down while increasing your rates twice and terminating three sets of channels this year makes it look like the customers are a bunch of tools.


Totally agree, that Dish is in the wrong on this particular issue CSN. You can't ask for arbitration, and then run away from it. Granted I am still getting channel 419 it must only be the HD version of the channel, with the issue. What are the 3 channels sets that were terminated?


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## cjrleimer (Nov 17, 2004)

Eksynyt said:


> If Dish keeps having these idiotic carriage disputes, they're gonna go bankrupt. I hope it happens.


To me I am a direct tv subscriber but I dont hope it happens because monopolies in America are not good for consumers.


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Eksynyt said:


> If Dish keeps having these idiotic carriage disputes, they're gonna go bankrupt. I hope it happens.


If you ever have anything original to add to the conversation please feel free to speak up. But I think most of us here have seen that same post by you enough times that it's no longer necessary. We all know it's your favorite thing to say at this point, no need to post it ever again, really.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> In those same Base packages, Dish subs get alot more HD channels, almost 20 more nowadays vs most others, without having to spend more on extra sports channels, or in PPV/Cinema channels, as they would with other providers, telco's, cables, or Direct. As for channel pricing disagreements, once the economy went south, and since it really hasn't bounced back, we see more and more agruements over pricing with just about every carrier, granted Charlie and Dish did it even when the economy was being inflated on a false high. Cable and Telco companies fight with providers, Dish and Direct have been fighting with providers as well. Just like with Vs, and Now G4, with Direct, Dish will get this sports channel resolved.
> Sorry except for Voom, and Smithsonian, nothing has left Dish that hasn't comeback once the fight over pricing, was resolved.
> Name a provider, you can find a fight, or a upcoming fight. Dish fights over pricing while adding as many HD channels as possible into the base packages. Carriers like Direct, wait years, to add popular channels. Trying to figure out which is worse, having to wait years for a channel to show up and then having to deal with a pricing battle, or just having to deal with a channel being SD only or subsituted during a pricing battle.


You did not state anything to contradict the point I made. Again, Dish claims to be involved in MORE disputes than other providers [this does not mean that other providers do not have disputes, they just have many times fewer] in order to keep cost down for their subs, yet Dish subs pay about the same price for COMPARABLE package and setup.

Plus you need to keep in mind that MOST subs by a very large percentage do NOT sub to HD.

To answer your question, I would much rather wait for a channel than have a channel that I already have pulled from me. When I sign up for a package I know which channels I am getting. Anything added, even if later than others, is a bonus. Anything taken away is a ripoff. IOW, I am getting what I paid for originally and I cannot miss what I never had to begin with if I have to wait.


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

normang said:


> The issue here is that you really don't know what the cost is or the impact might be, this has never been public knowledge that I've seen.
> 
> Unless you have inside data, that tells you what the cost is, and what the potential impact is, its all just a guess.
> 
> ...


I'm no CFO or financial expert, but I really don't care to be, that's Charlies problem. As a customer I just expect to have the channels that I pay each month for. I don't think its right to punish the customer for your bad business dealings! Because that is what he is doing. Punishing the ones that pay his bills!

But if it ever does come down to pulling the plug on a channel or raising rates, They need to offer some choices to the customer and more transparency on why they are doing this (not BS). Going black without notice on the day of a big game is really lame and pushed me over the edge.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> You did not state anything to contradict the point I made. Again, Dish claims to be involved in MORE disputes than other providers [this does not mean that other providers do not have disputes, they just have many times fewer] in order to keep cost down for their subs, yet Dish subs pay about the same price for COMPARABLE package and setup.
> 
> Plus you need to keep in mind that MOST subs by a very large percentage do NOT sub to HD.
> 
> To answer your question, I would much rather wait for a channel than have a channel that I already have pulled from me. When I sign up for a package I know which channels I am getting. Anything added, even if later than others, is a bonus. Anything taken away is a ripoff. IOW, I am getting what I paid for originally and I cannot miss what I never had to begin with if I have to wait.


Didn't say I was trying to contradict anything you said. I was saying, Dish users do get more in thier packages, for less money. So Dish users do get more for less money. Direct, Cable Companies, Verizon, and U-Verse have all had contract disputes. Dish and some cable companies all had multiple disputes this year, as thats when the contracts ended. Direct's last 2 contracts, saw VS disappear for sometime, before it cameback, and now have seen G4 dropped out of the HD packages. So it looks like even Direct that even though they wait longer before adding some channels to packages or to add a channel to a HD package, is willing to take advanatage of users by freely dropping a HD channel.

Charlie has always been a nickle and dime'er, and he always will be. But all Carriers are having issues with the content providers, nowadays, and just getting tired of the fanboys jumping on saying how Dish is screwing people over for dropping a HD channel back to SD, or Dish and the content provider battle things out and a channel is dropped and how wrong it is for Dish to screw over the users. All the Carriers are doing it, and they will all be doing more of it, as contracts come up for renewal, and acting like Dish is the only one is just getting tiresome. FSN's went off for a little while, Dish was great about giving you the Multisports package for free during the dispute. FX was a lose, and not everybody was compensated for it, but Dish did try. All was resolved in a very timely manner, and except for a handful of the Sky is falling crowd, and rush of complaints from non Dish users, there was hardly any real complaints on this board or others over the channels.

For those missing 409, I do understand its a big issue for you. I agree that Charlie/Dish is wrong in this case, as you don't ask for arbitration, and then run away from it, when it doesn't go your way. But to


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Eksynyt said:


> If Dish keeps having these idiotic carriage disputes, they're gonna go bankrupt. I hope it happens.


Why don't you go back to that rock you crawled out from ?
If you're not a Dish sub - how does it effect you anyway ?

As others have stated - we're getting tired of your single message - because we KNOW it will not happen ! IF (and that's a very long if) it ever happens - then you can come back and say "I told you so !".


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

The point I was trying to make earlier was...

whether we like it or not... Dish has the same choices as a company that we have as a consumer.

Many of us jump or make threats for a better deal. Companies like Dish do the same thing.

We risk being locked in to another provider and they raise prices OR something else happening...

Dish risks losing subscribers if they lose carriage of a popular channel.

It's all two sides of the same (or similar) coin to me.

So, not defending Dish... but hard to bash them when most customers would make the same kind of decisions if they could.

Many people in this very thread would switch to DirecTV for a better deal or would call Dish and ask for something free to convince them to stay... so why pounce on Dish when they do the same thing for their bottom line that you would do for yours?


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## dstout (Jul 19, 2005)

> Many people in this very thread would switch to DirecTV for a better deal or would call Dish and ask for something free to convince them to stay... so why pounce on Dish when they do the same thing for their bottom line that you would do for yours?


Stuart,

I think it is an apples and oranges situation. I also think I saw some Charlie guy saying "let's watch TV". He kind of makes it tough, if you are a Sharks fan.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

This like the other recent problems will go the way of back room deals and perhaps extended bravado......:money::money::money: more for the media and less for us.....:money::money::money: dishTV and Comcast both need each other and both know it. :money::money::money:
Sadly fans will miss games, much will be written here and elsewhere, but in the end it will be resolved and this like the Fox issue will fade from the collective.......:glasses:

:icon_band


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Eksynyt said:


> If Dish keeps having these idiotic carriage disputes, they're gonna go bankrupt. I hope it happens.


Maybe dish can drop all the RSN's and ESPN and say we don't have sports so we cost less then D* and cable.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

The Dish slate on channel 409 in SD looks clearer than the actual garbage PQ Comcast provided before the channel was pulled! The same goes for CSN-Bay Area, MASN and CSN-NE. It looks like a bad VHS tape!!!


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Eksynyt said:


> If Dish keeps having these idiotic carriage disputes, they're gonna go bankrupt. I hope it happens.


Sophomoric hyperbole is beneath you.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

normang said:


> Not sure how long you've been a Dish Sub DSTOUT, but in the 12 years or so I've been one, its happened several times where channels have come and gone. Sometimes several of them in the case of Rainbow HD channels a few years ago. Some I miss, some I don't.
> 
> However threatening to switch to another service as I see it doesn't accomplish much, the same thing could happen to the other provider at negotiation time, or you pay more somewhere else for the privilege of getting that one channel, perhaps at the sacrifice of others that the other service may not carry, that perhaps you don't care about as much, but you still may not have the same channels as you did before. Or you wind up with inferior equipment to what Dish provides potentially at a higher price.. But you have that missing channel.. Which may eventually come back on Dish..
> 
> Then there is the hassle of canceling your service, possibly returning leased equipment or selling it, getting new service, installing new equipment, perhaps paying early termination fees if your on a contract. But you got that channel back...


Excellent post!.

My thoughts exactly.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

jeffgbailey said:


> and its interesting how the "Charlie backers" are saying he's fighting to keep the bills lower yet didnt Dish do a 2 time raise on prices/receiver fees this year?


Yes and the year before and you know what? My AT250 package price is still cheaper than anyone else.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

"Jhon69" said:


> Yes and the year before and you know what? My AT250 package price is still cheaper than anyone else.


That's because nobody else has an AT250 Package.


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

If any former DTV subscriber who reads this has had one of their favorite channels go black from a contract dispute I'd like to hear your experience.

I did decide to take the plunge and sign up with the "other guys". Well I made the mistake of signing up for DTV over the phone after calling to ask a few questions about the packages and equipment. If anyone else is thinking of ordering DTV, one word of advice USE THE WEBSITE to sign up.

So after I got my order confirmation I noticed a mistake, when I called to resolve this, it was a lesson in sanity. After being bounced around the globe for an hour, each person I spoke with only had a basic command of the english language which they read off a computer screen. I finally just had them cancel the order and did the whole thing over again online over a $20 error on the order that noone seemed to have the power to correct. At the end of all this I thought I would be wearing diapers and drueling all over myself from the shear madness that was the DTV customer Noservice. 

We'll see how their product is. I'm keeping my Dish for another month so I can compare the two on the same TV.


----------



## calgary2800 (Aug 27, 2006)

I left Dish more than a month ago when the Fox dispute started. For a big sports fan like me its was in hindsight a no brainer move as DTV carries so much RSN HD in their sport packages compared to Dish it wasnt even a comparison at the moment. 

If you look at each package/price DTV's few bucks per month cost is so small than its not even worth thinking about.


----------



## Chihuahua (Sep 8, 2007)

With what has happened with CSN California, this development has arisen.

Guess we, as Southern Oregon DISH Network subscribers, won't be getting CSN Northwest anytime soon, if ever.


----------



## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

Chihuahua said:


> With what has happened with CSN California, this http://mobile.multichannel.com/article/460327-Comcast_Seeks_Suspension_Of_Dish_Arbitration_Order_Against_Three_RSNs.php has arisen.
> 
> Guess we, as Southern Oregon DISH Network subscribers, won't be getting CSN Northwest anytime soon, if ever.


And basically the rest of the country could lose their CSN channel as ALL of them are 'out-of-contract'.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

GrumpyBear said:


> Granted I am still getting channel 419 it must only be the HD version of the channel, with the issue.


The channel in question in THIS THREAD is 409 ... CSN California. Not channel 419 CSN Bay Area. CSNBA continues to air.



> What are the 3 channels sets that were terminated?


409 CSN CA, MSG and MSG+.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Curtis0620 said:


> That's because nobody else has an AT250 Package.


The equivalent DirecTV package is Choice Ultimate.

Hope that helps, have a nice day.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

eudoxia said:


> If any former DTV subscriber who reads this has had one of their favorite channels go black from a contract dispute I'd like to hear your experience.


If by DTV you mean "DirecTV" you may have trouble getting some of the pundits to admit that Versus was off of DirecTV for five and a half months beginning September 2009. It is much easier to remember and harp on DISH's problems than remember their provider's problems.


----------



## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

"James Long" said:


> The equivalent DirecTV package is Choice Ultimate.
> 
> Hope that helps, have a nice day.


Nobody has a package with the exact same channels in it.

So there is no exact comparison.


----------



## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

James Long said:


> The channel in question in THIS THREAD is 409 ... CSN California. Not channel 419 CSN Bay Area. CSNBA continues to air.
> 
> 409 CSN CA, MSG and MSG+.


I fixed the 419 to 409 in post #43 of this thread.

I wasn't sure what 3 channel "sets" he was talking about. Sets seemed to imply lots of channels.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Curtis0620 said:


> Nobody has a package with the exact same channels in it.
> 
> So there is no exact comparison.


I didn't say "exact", did I?


----------



## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

James Long said:


> I didn't say "exact", did I?


But I did.

Replying to :

Originally Posted by Jhon69

My AT250 package price is still cheaper than anyone else.


----------



## grog (Jul 3, 2007)

While true there are much fewer and less frequent issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirecTV

Based on the above there have been only five carriage issues of any kind since 2005 with DirecTV.

Oh.. GoalTV in HD, MSG, Smithsonian HD ....etc... are all on DirecTV.

We forget quickly channels that have dropped from the past don't we?

I understand Dish's position but I also know what DirecTV has done and that is one reason we switched. 



James Long said:


> If by DTV you mean "DirecTV" you may have trouble getting some of the pundits to admit that Versus was off of DirecTV for five and a half months beginning September 2009. It is much easier to remember and harp on DISH's problems than remember their provider's problems.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Curtis0620 said:


> But I did.


If you did that would make you wrong, not I, wouldn't it?

And you're wrong, you didn't use the word "exact" when replying to Jhon69. You have only introduced that word in a feeble attempt to attack comparison between the two systems. There are comparable packages.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> ...There are comparable packages.


Not really, unless the packages have the same channels.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> Not really, unless the packages have the same channels.


Then you (and Curtis) should never in any forum compare DISH and DirecTV ever again, since you both seem to think there are no comparable packages. It would be hypocrisy to say the channel lineups cannot be compared and then compare them. Wouldn't it?

Somehow I doubt that restraint will happen.


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Then you (and Curtis) should never in any forum compare DISH and DirecTV ever again, since you both seem to think there are no comparable packages. It would be hypocrisy to say the channel lineups cannot be compared and then compare them. Wouldn't it?
> 
> Somehow I doubt that restraint will happen.


You are taking things too far and out of context. I never use the "package comparison" argument when discussing comparison of any provider because they often don't have the same channels in packages. Your very own site notes who has what & who does not.

I'll leave out personal attacks, here.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> Your very own site notes who has what & who does not.


Yes, I believe that the packages ARE comparable - so no hypocrisy there. It is those who _SAY_ there is no comparison who go on to compare who are engaging in hypocrisy.

If you want to say nothing DirecTV offers compares to DISH Network's offerings I'll accept that, and hopefully get back to the topic this thread was created for.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Eksynyt said:


> If Dish keeps having these idiotic carriage disputes, they're gonna go bankrupt. I hope it happens.


They're not going bankrupt anytime soon. Perhaps in 50 years. None of us will be here then.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

tsmacro said:


> If you ever have anything original to add to the conversation please feel free to speak up. But I think most of us here have seen that same post by you enough times that it's no longer necessary. We all know it's your favorite thing to say at this point, no need to post it ever again, really.


+1


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Yes, I believe that the packages ARE comparable - so no hypocrisy there. It is those who _SAY_ there is no comparison who go on to compare who are engaging in hypocrisy.


Examples of channels carried by DirecTV & *not *by Dish in the *$29.99/month advertised packages* for the 1st year (America's Top 120+ & Choice):

amc
BBCA
Animal Planet
BET
Bloomburg
Bravo
CNBC World
Cooking
Disc Health
current
Disney XD
Fuse
FX
GSN
Hallmark

That's just A through H.
Do you still think packages are comparable?



> If you want to say nothing DirecTV offers compares to DISH Network's offerings I'll accept that, and hopefully get back to the topic this thread was created for.


Choice > AT120+ yet is = price in year 1


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> That's just A through H.
> Do you still think packages are comparable?


_*You just compared them.*_ Thanks for proving my point!

Although I consider AT200 vs Choice as a fairer comparison of channel content. Price is secondary. DISH has chosen to have a step down tier between AT200 and Family (AT120 with AT120+ adding one's own RSN, where available). DirecTV has chosen to have a step tier between Choice and Choice Ultimate.

Promotional prices vary and do not last forever. I wouldn't use a nearly half off price promotional price that will jump up 50% in a year to make a comparison. Especially when the high end of the promotion (AEP vs Premier) is only a $1 different (for the first few months).


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## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> _*You just compared them.....
> 
> +1..game, set .....:lol:*_


----------



## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> _*You just compared them.*_ Thanks for proving my point!
> 
> Although I consider AT200 vs Choice as a fairer comparison of channel content. Price is secondary. DISH has chosen to have a step down tier between AT200 and Family (AT120 with AT120+ adding one's own RSN, where available). DirecTV has chosen to have a step tier between Choice and Choice Ultimate.
> 
> Promotional prices vary and do not last forever. I wouldn't use a nearly half off price promotional price that will jump up 50% in a year to make a comparison. Especially when the high end of the promotion (AEP vs Premier) is only a $1 different (for the first few months).


C'mon James , you can compare anything, that means packages are _comparable _in that sense. I can compare a blade of grass to a remote control, but that doesn't mean they're *like *or *equal*. Packages are not *like*, *equal*, or equivalent...which are synonyms of comparable...because they contain the same channels.

Edit: As for overall HD national basics & Premiums...Dish & DirecTV aren't comparable. Dish blows away DirecTV.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Comparing AT120+ to Choice is more like comparing a blade of grass to a remote control.  Comparing AT200 to Choice is a fairer comparison.

Feel free to throw any lower promotional price in when doing your comparison. Some may wish to include the Free HD DISH offers with AT120, AT120+ or AT200 (and all higher packages) when comparing against Choice (which does not have Free HD under the current promotion). But start with similar packages: AT200 is similar to Choice, AT250 is similar to Choice Ultimate, AEP is similar to Premier. Then explain the differences - in an appropriate thread and forum, of course.

*comparable* Dictionary.com
1. capable of being compared; having features in common with something else to permit or suggest comparison.
2. worthy of comparison.
3. usable for comparison; similar.​
Now, can we get back to people complaining about the loss of a channel (preferably by people who have actually lost a channel)?


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

James Long said:


> Comparing AT120+ to Choice is more like comparing a blade of grass to a remote control.  Comparing AT200 to Choice is a fairer comparison.
> 
> Feel free to throw any lower promotional price in when doing your comparison. Some may wish to include the Free HD DISH offers with AT120, AT120+ or AT200 (and all higher packages) when comparing against Choice (which does not have Free HD under the current promotion). But start with similar packages: AT200 is similar to Choice, AT250 is similar to Choice Ultimate, AEP is similar to Premier. Then explain the differences - in an appropriate thread and forum, of course.
> 
> ...


That sounds good as I lost a channel in my SD AT250 package,so I have only 249 left?.Man TV viewing is starting to get thin.

Having an SD package with my VIP622 is great for me....Oh and that's something else you can't do with DirecTV(have a SD package with a HD DVR).For those who want to compare?.


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## RasputinAXP (Jan 23, 2008)

Paul Secic said:


> They're not going bankrupt anytime soon. Perhaps in 50 years. None of us will be here then.


Says YOU! I'm 32!


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Paul Secic said:


> They're not going bankrupt anytime soon. Perhaps in 50 years. None of us will be here then.


What? dang now I've got to change my ticket again?.I thought we were leaving in 2012.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jhon69 said:


> That sounds good as I lost a channel in my SD AT250 package,so I have only 249 left?.Man TV viewing is starting to get thin.


Last time I looked AT250 had 277 channels (162 video and 115 audio). That count does not include locals and RSN as the number of locals and RSNs varies depending on where the customer is located.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

James Long said:


> Last time I looked AT250 had 277 channels (162 video and 115 audio). That count does not include locals and RSN as the number of locals and RSNs varies depending on where the customer is located.


So 161? to be honest I hardly ever listen to the audio channels.Didn't really set down and count my channels just knew there was a hell of alot of them.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jhon69 said:


> So 161? to be honest I hardly ever listen to the audio channels.Didn't really set down and count my channels just knew there was a hell of alot of them.


Still 162. As noted the RSNs vary and are not included in that count. (Some people get one RSN in AT120+ and above, others get two or three.) Also local channels are not included - so that should push the count of video channels in AT250 higher than 162.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> I fixed the 419 to 409 in post #43 of this thread.
> 
> I wasn't sure what 3 channel "sets" he was talking about. Sets seemed to imply lots of channels.


I still say the '3 channels' (4 total) are relevant and should be discussed in this thread as explained here: http://mobile.multichannel.com/arti...Dish_Arbitration_Order_Against_Three_RSNs.php ALL Comcast Sportsnets on Dish are out of contract and Comcast is trying to convince the FCC to allow them to remove all of them BECAUSE of how Dish acted after the arbitration w/ CSN west.


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

Web Delivery Firm Says Comcast Charging Unfair Fee For Data

Interesting story. Same company (Comcast), but different issue. Seems Comcast has pissed off more than Charlie. Could all this have something to do with the proposed merger? Hmmm......conspiracy theorists go at it!


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

Jhon69 said:


> What? dang now I've got to change my ticket again?.I thought we were leaving in 2012.


I think 12-21-2012 is still on and hope that I live long enough to see it.

Should be fun and will finally stop the bickering here about which satellite service is better, cheaper, nicer, user friendly, sports friendly, non-sports friendly...etc.

And trolling will be over..........:grin:


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

Grandude said:


> And trolling will be over..........:grin:


What's trolling?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

eudoxia said:


> What's trolling?





> In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
> Wikipedia​


Intent is subjective. Someone labeled a troll may only intend to discuss the topic at hand while others may see their attempt as provocative.


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

RasputinAXP said:


> Says YOU! I'm 32!


I'm 61. You have a valid point


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

James Long said:


> Intent is subjective. Someone labeled a troll may only intend to discuss the topic at hand while others may see their attempt as provocative.


Well I don't mean to troll, I don't participate much in the discussions, but I find these forums extremely helpful.

I've already signed up for DirecTV and only did it because Charlie cut off my hockey team and then I realized the money I could save with their promotions.

I like the product thusfar, but this isn't the place for an opinion on the 2 services. I had Dish for 13 years and enjoyed it, never tried DirecTV so this is a trial. I have no experience to say anything on DirecTV's business decisions, but I'm not dumb enough to believe they wouldn't pull the same stunt as Dish. Heck 5 months without Versus hockey would really set me off.

Anyways got CSN-CA back, hope to enjoy Sharks vs. Redwings tonight and my input here will be over.

Hope Dish gets CSN-CA back soon for Sharks fans.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

eudoxia said:


> What's trolling?


According to my brother, Trolling is when you take a boat out on the water and move at a slow speed with baited hooks in the water as you try to catch some fish.


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## adkcek (Oct 16, 2006)

I had been a Dish customer since the first year they went into business but finally pulled the plug. My 722 and 622 recievers worked great but the continued guessing of which channels you would have day to day I had finally had it. The Dish Center Ice package HD channels was so sparce this year that I signed up for Directv even though I had already paid for it this year and now another channel goes black. I have TV for the channels I like to watch and if there not there I will get them somehow.


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## sum_random_dork (Aug 21, 2008)

This fight is getting pretty ugly for Nor Cal sports fans. CSN has started a webpage directing people to contact Dish and today started running ads on KNBR (SF Sports Radio) telling people to call a # and complain to Dish.

The CSN side of the story (as told through 3rd parties) is that the court ruled in favor of CSN and at that point Dish pulled CSNCA because they didn't want to pay the fees the court ruled were "fair." Hopefully it all gets worked out, at this point fans are missing out on the Sac Kings and SJ Sharks. But, from what was said today on the radio they are also getting a lot of complaints becuase the Gary Radnich show and The Sunday Night Sports Report with Gary Radnich and Tony Bruno is also on CSNCA. A bit more to add:


> For those of you unfortunate enough to have DISH network, CSN California has started a website, IWantCSN.com, and a toll-free number, 888-527-6220, so that customers can let DISH know they want CSN California - the A's, Sharks and Kings - reinstated.
> 
> DISH doesn't come across well at all in this dispute. They went to arbitration over fees charged by regional sports networks, including CSN, and they lost the hearing. Instead of accepting that the fees had been deemed reasonable by the FCC, DISH dumped the programming instead. So, in essence, they only cared about the ruling if it went in their favor. And DISH initiated the procedings - that's pretty amazing to then not give a hoot about the ruling. It must not be binding arbitration, obviously, but still, I can't imagine the FCC likes its time wasted like that.


Quote taken from Susan Slusser's Oakland A's blog


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

James Long said:


> Intent is subjective. Someone labeled a troll may only intend to discuss the topic at hand while others may see their attempt as provocative.


I agree with you probably 99.8% of the time but I don't believe that someone joining in to discuss the topic at hand has ever been considered a troll.
My definition closely matches Wikipedia.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Grandude said:


> I agree with you probably 99.8% of the time but I don't believe that someone joining in to discuss the topic at hand has ever been considered a troll.


That's the subjective part. The "troll" may consider their post to be an on topic furthering of the topic at hand while some readers may consider the post to be more of a distraction that meets Wikipedia's description.


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## elbodude (Jul 13, 2006)

eudoxia said:


> Well I don't mean to troll, I don't participate much in the discussions, but I find these forums extremely helpful.
> 
> I've already signed up for DirecTV and only did it because Charlie cut off my hockey team and then I realized the money I could save with their promotions.
> 
> ...


With a Fish performance like that, I am better off not having CSNCA?


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

Public service announcement for anyone considering making the switch:

$150 cash card
http://www.dropthedish.com

put that on top of $180 costco card and its a nice Christmas present for getting CSN-CA back


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## sum_random_dork (Aug 21, 2008)

eudoxia said:


> Public service announcement for anyone considering making the switch:
> 
> $150 cash card
> http://www.dropthedish.com
> ...


CSN is on KNBR Radio right now promoting this, they're really pusing the gift card to make the switch.


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## elbodude (Jul 13, 2006)

sum_random_dork said:


> CSN is on KNBR Radio right now promoting this, they're really pusing the gift card to make the switch.


Make the switch to what? I am close to signing up with Directv. Dish wants their $180 early term fee. This $150 will cover most of it.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm not sure if anyone is still folloing this issue.

One of the recent Comcast/NBC merger stipulations is that comcast offer it's programming at reasonable costs.

Perhaps that means Comcast must provide access to it's programming (Comcast Sportsnet California) at reasonable prices - and those of us that have Dish Network will get our channel back?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

logray said:


> I'm not sure if anyone is still folloing this issue.
> 
> One of the recent Comcast/NBC merger stipulations is that comcast offer it's programming at reasonable costs.
> 
> Perhaps that means Comcast must provide access to it's programming (Comcast Sportsnet California) at reasonable prices - and those of us that have Dish Network will get our channel back?


According to Comcast, DISH rejected the "reasonable" cost that was decided via arbitration. It seems "reasonable" remains in the eye of the beholder.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

I suppose you are right, if only we knew the details... however I am still confused.

"DISH Network has agreed to pay Comcast its requested price per subscriber for CSN California because we want to make this channel available to the customers who value its programming. However, Comcast is demanding that ALL DISH Network customers in the market pay for the channel, even if they don't want " -unnamed news source

Wouldn't the goverments merger mandate that Comcast provide reasonable prices for it's programming mean that Dish gets what they want? I think what they are saying is that Comcast demands that all nearby dish network customers rates would go up (unreasonable) whether they want the programming or not, versus just those who want the channel and might be willing to pay for their higher rates (reasonable), even through the new development of the merger says the prices must now be reasonable.

I hope the FCC defined reasonable well.

I'm angry that this whole debate seems to have taken a back seat to the merger. 

I'm also a NBA League pass subscriber. And the NBA blacks out all of my local NBA team's games via league pass... at least let me watch their away games!!!!!

    

Perhaps it's time to move to DTV and sign up for NBA league pass there.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

logray said:


> "DISH Network has agreed to pay Comcast its requested price per subscriber for CSN California because we want to make this channel available to the customers who value its programming. However, Comcast is demanding that ALL DISH Network customers in the market pay for the channel, even if they don't want " -unnamed news source


That sounds like the YES demand to be in AT120 (available to all customers) instead of AT120+ or AT200 (DISH's most popular package) and up.

The demand didn't work for YES. I believe MSG is hung up on the same thing. I don't know how many of the ~4 million estimated AT120 customers are in CSNCA's market but giving in to Comcast's demand would basically make the minimum package in the CSNCA market AT120+.



> Perhaps it's time to move to DTV and sign up for NBA league pass there.


That is just what Comcast wants you to do ... although they would prefer you switch to Comcast instead of DirecTV. As long as you leave DISH, they win.

There might be more movement on this when the other CSNs come up for renewal (or their extensions end ... CSNCA's contract expired in 2008!). Or perhaps DISH will cave and AT120 will become AT120+ ... the second outcome would be more difficult with the price guarantee starting in a couple of weeks.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

James Long said:


> ...giving in to Comcast's demand would basically make the minimum package in the CSNCA market AT120+.


So they are basically requiring other competitors to dictate what packages they have to sell to their customers.

This is exactly the reason why I don't think the NBC merger is a good thing... too much power already. What's to prevent them from doing the same thing in other markets?



James Long said:


> ...That is just what Comcast wants you to do ... although they would prefer you switch to Comcast instead of DirecTV. As long as you leave DISH, they win.


Comcast even offers "rebates" for those that switch as was brought up earlier in this thread...

I'm not in a Comcast cable area BTW, and I wouldn't sign up with them if I were.

Why not just eliminate all competition and everyone signs up with Comcast and have them merge with DTV. That way everyone will be happy with the same programming right? Sarcasm. :nono2:

I think someone is asleep at the wheel here, whether it's DN, Comcast, or the FCC. Two months without this channel is long enough!


----------



## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

...and lets not forget Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia!


----------



## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

levibluewa said:


> ...and lets not forget Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia!


That's what I'm saying. Look at the crap they pull, whatever they can "get away with" right? Doesn't sound fair to me, not to turn this into a Comcast bashing thread or anything...

"On January 20, 2010, the FCC voted 4-1 to close the terrestrial loophole.[2] Lawyers for DirecTV and Dish Network had attempted to show that Comcast Corporation, who owns both CSN Philadelphia along with most of the cable systems in the Philadelphia market, acted in restraint of trade because it did not uplink CSN Philadelphia to satellite. Comcast does not plan to appeal the decision, so DirecTV and Dish can negotiate immediately to add the channel to their lineups. Both providers formally asked for access to the channel on June 25, 2010. [3] On July 28, 2010, it was reported that Comcast is in talks with DirecTV and Dish Network for carriage of CSN Philadelphia. [4] Two days later, after accusing Comcast of refusing to negotiate in good faith, Dish Network said it will file a complaint with the FCC" --wikipedia


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## outriderx (Sep 20, 2010)

eudoxia said:


> Public service announcement for anyone considering making the switch:
> 
> $150 cash card
> (had to remove URL "drop the dish" since I'm a noob/lurker)
> ...


Anyone know what happened to this website? I registered and got a confirmation email on how to get my $150, but it's curious that the website is no longer there!

Not sure if they received an overwhelming response and shut it down OR they were ordered to shut it down??? In any case I'll be submitting mine and hopefully will still see some $$. Also got the $180 from Costco, 15+ years with DISH and now I'm DONE. GO SHARKS! GO A'S! GO GIANTS!


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

The conditions Comcast is facing on their NBCU acquisition approval require arbitration in disputes with satellite/cable carriers for Comcast's RSN's. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out because of a particular focus in the Order on areas where Comcast dominates the region's cable service, like the Bay Area.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

phrelin said:


> The conditions Comcast is facing on their NBCU acquisition approval require arbitration in disputes with satellite/cable carriers for Comcast's RSN's. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out because of a particular focus in the Order on areas where Comcast dominates the region's cable service, like the Bay Area.


Rewind to the first post in this thread ...


forecheck said:


> No more Sharks or Sac Kings games for those in Northern California for now.
> 
> http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=544482
> 
> ...


Arbitration occurred ... what will the NBC/Comcast merger do? Force DISH to accept the arbitrated terms?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Rewind to the first post in this thread ...
> 
> Arbitration occurred ... what will the NBC/Comcast merger do? Force DISH to accept the arbitrated terms?


I really don't know whether the arbitration completed was under the same rules just put in place.

If the statement Dish made is true that "Comcast is demanding that ALL DISH Network customers in the market pay for the channel" and the arbitrator agreed with that, then there may be wiggle room within the new bundling choice provision.

In new arbitration under the new rules, Dish _may_ be able to demand that Comcast's last offer include a price for the RSN a la carte which Dish can counter in its last offer.

The language in the MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER to me is confusing, but what I call the "observational remarks" (I call them this because they seem to be more than just factual findings - they come with subjective opinions) would seem to give Dish room to argue that some price other than an "all subscriber" price could be required to be included in the last offer.

I really don't know. Just thinking out loud. But Comcast does dominate the Bay Area cable business. And the FCC in the MOO ( :sure: )was very concerned about them dealing unreasonably with satellite companies in such an area.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

James Long said:


> Rewind to the first post in this thread ...
> 
> Arbitration occurred ... what will the NBC/Comcast merger do? Force DISH to accept the arbitrated terms?


If they think for one moment they can force Charlie Ergen to pay for something he does not want to?. "They don't know him very well,do they"!!.:eek2:


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Ok. I've started a thread over in the Legislative and Regulatory Issues area entitled Will FCC Comcast-NBCU Order fix RSN and other dispute arbitration because I think there is an opportunity for litigious Charlie (and maybe DirecTV) to attempt to fix this Comcast RSN problem and other Comcast RSN problems right now.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

The Sacramento Kings game managed to air last night for about 15 minutes on NBATV before they blacked it out.


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## bigj7489 (Feb 2, 2011)

Perhaps one of the Dish team here can give an update on this - I've been a Dish guy for years and wouldn't ordinarily dream of switching, but baseball season's getting close and if I don't have the A's, I'll have to do something. Is this deal going to get done, ever? I've been hammering both sides hard with emails and calls.  All Dish seems to be interested in doing is dropping my bill $10 each time.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

I too would like to see an update from Dish Internet Response Team. 

After numerous calls/emails/chats to Dish we are getting the same runaround and credits that probably anyone else who is complaining is receiving. It doesn't make up for the fact that we can't watch what we want to watch.

We are starting to talk about switching to DTV.


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

to the status of talks if any regarding ComcastSportsNet Philadelphia. ....oh, and channels 4891-4898...any news about those channels?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Please guys, DISHIRT ... don't call people "DIRT".


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*Channels Now Available*
409 CSNCA CSN California 110° TP 16 SD Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
409 CSNCA CSN California 72.7° TP 9 SD MPEG4 Hidden - *AVAILABLE*
5409 CSNCA (409 HD PartTime) CSN California 129° TP 25 HD Hidden - *AVAILABLE*


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

James (and Dish), you are the man.

And I can confirm the channel is now viewable.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

logray said:


> James (and Dish), you are the man.
> 
> And I can confirm the channel is now viewable.


I'm just the bearer of good news ... which is what I'd rather be that the bearer of bad news.


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## logray (Apr 8, 2005)

Thanks again, no financial detail disclosed, but here is the press release from NBA.



> ENGLEWOOD, CA, February 3, 2011 -- DISH Network L.L.C. and Comcast Sports Group have reached a carriage agreement to return Comcast SportsNet California to the DISH Network lineup. The companies also agreed to terminate all pending arbitration proceedings at the Federal Communications Commission.
> 
> "We are pleased we have reached a fair deal with Comcast SportsNet California to restore its coverage of the Sacramento Kings, San Jose Sharks, Oakland A's and other sporting events to our customers. DISH Network will continue to work hard to offer the best value and experience in pay television," said Dave Shull, senior vice president of Programming at DISH Network.
> 
> ...


http://www.nba.com/kings/news/dish_comcast_release_2011_02_03.html


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Just in time for A's Baseball.......how about that...?


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## [email protected] Network (Jan 6, 2011)

As you've figured out, DISH Network is pleased to announce that your Comcast SportsNet California channel has been restored. Our new agreement with Comcast ensures the continued carriage of this channel for years to come. We appreciate your patience during this time and regret the inconvenience this may have caused you.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

What about the other Comcast Sportsnets? ALL Comcast Sportsnet channels on dish were out of contract, does this new deal include them or just California?

http://mobile.multichannel.com/arti...Dish_Arbitration_Order_Against_Three_RSNs.php


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Comcast SportsNet California and Dish Network have finally come to an agreement to get the network back on for subscribers, that according to Multichannel News. The channel was pulled from the Dish lineup at midnight on November 24, 2010, after Comcast and Dish could not come to an agreement about pricing even under FCC arbitration. Dish was out of contract with Comcast for over a year.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

And this is about to get merged or locked

we already know


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

This is a interesting development......:scratch: in the OFF season dishTV has this dispute with Comcast Sportnet Cally after baseball ends. Basketball fans got spanked over the dispute if I remember correctly. :blauesaug Now that Baseball is on the horizon (America's Pass-time) "VOILA!" :goodjob: they kiss and make up.....for A's fans in my area it's great....the timing gives me pause though......:alterhase perhaps just more corporate manipulations.....:money::money::money:

:icon_band


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

James Long said:


> I'm just the bearer of good news ... which is what I'd rather be that the bearer of bad news.


I'm happy for you sports fans! Congrats!


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