# Should I get a crappy HDTV in the meantime or wait till next may and send even more?



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

They have some pretty good discounts through an accomodation at my job where you can get a Panasonic PZ-4280U for $593 after a $350 mail in rebate plus tax(on the $943 Employee discount price). Or I can get the Sony 37" XBR6 for $600 plus tax.
I'm going to get a real nice graduation present for myself next may anyway.
A 50" or larger Pioneer Extreme Contrast Kuro(or perhaps even the elite), and update to better floorstanding speakers, better sub, new 7.1 channel Dolby Tru HD/DTS HD receiver, Bluray player, etc.
I can a pretty nice tv right now(the Panasonic PZ-50800U) for $1050 plus $103 tax after rebate, but I just have no room in my bedroom for a tv that size.

Should I just get a crappy HDTV like the XBR6 or PZ-4280U right now or just save that $600 so I could use it later to get a Pioneer Elite instead of just a regular Kuro?

Panasonic TH-42PZ80U









Sony KDL-37XBR6 









Panasonic TH-50PZ800U









Pioneer Extreme Contrast Technology with Very Long Camera Exposure time to show the difference between the current flat panels with the DEEPEST blacks vs the 10G Pioneer Tech


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

What are you using right now?

Keep in mind that by next May, many things will have changed. The LaserVue might be out at a reasonable price, for example.

I doubt that the TV you're looking at now will be the one you'd get 7 months from now.


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> What are you using right now?
> 
> Keep in mind that by next May, many things will have changed. The LaserVue might be out at a reasonable price, for example.
> 
> I doubt that the TV you're looking at now will be the one you'd get 7 months from now.


If I get a tv now, I'll still get another one in May.
With my discount I would be able to get a $4000 tv in May if I buy the cheap tv now, and maybe a $5000 tv in May if I don't buy a tv right now.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

But, what are you using for a display now?


----------



## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> They have some pretty good discounts through an accomodation at my job


The first thing to do is to get a job where you are offered REAL dealer accomodation prices on products. When I was working in both the consumer electronics field and the pro audio field discounts of 50% off retail were always available through the major manufacturers to sales staff. The purchases were made directly through the manufacturer with the retailer simply signing off that I was an employee in a sales position. I bought several reel to reel tape machines, a mixer, my JBL studio monitors (twice), a very high end component stereo system, and many other things that way. If what you are looking at retails at $943 (a very strange number), you should be able to get it on accomodation for $471.50 to your door (no mail in rebate). Try talking directly to the manufacturer's rep, not a store manager or owner.


----------



## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

Be aware that the new Pioneer KUROs are using Panasonic screens. While it's the Pioneer electronics and tuning that make them fantastic, the new Pannies are getting terrific reviews.


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

Richard King said:


> The first thing to do is to get a job where you are offered REAL dealer accomodation prices on products. When I was working in both the consumer electronics field and the pro audio field discounts of 50% off retail were always available through the major manufacturers to sales staff. The purchases were made directly through the manufacturer with the retailer simply signing off that I was an employee in a sales position. I bought several reel to reel tape machines, a mixer, my JBL studio monitors (twice), a very high end component stereo system, and many other things that way. If what you are looking at retails at $943 (a very strange number), you should be able to get it on accomodation for $471.50 to your door (no mail in rebate). Try talking directly to the manufacturer's rep, not a store manager or owner.


No, $943 is the employee discount number, $350 is the mail in rebate from Panasonic. A normal consumer pays $1299 plus tax.
The Invoice price for the tv is $898.28.
For the Sony Accomodation, we get 60% of the MSRP on any Sony tv directly through Sony.


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> But, what are you using for a display now?


Well, it depends on the room, in my bedroom, I'm using this right now.
In the future this one will be downgraded to Videogame duty for game systems that can't do RGB natively such as the N64 and Panasonic 3DO. I have an European RGB tv with SCART RGB inputs and a voltage transformer for my consoles that can do RGB such as PS1, Sega Master System, SNES, Genesis, etc, etc.


----------



## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

i would buy the panny plasma right now.


----------



## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

For $600 out of pocket after rebate, I'd second the notion to go with the Panny or Sony now to replace that old Sony.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, if you don't have a decent display now, then get the 42" Panny.


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> Well, if you don't have a decent display now, then get the 42" Panny.


Well, It's descent for SD programming and even DVDs(has an anamorphic mode in the service menu), but just not great for High Def Programming.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Are we talking about the display you posted a picture of?


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> Are we talking about the display you posted a picture of?


Yeah, that old Trinitron's fine for SD, I mean my viewing distance is like 4 feet, I may have to get a smaller bed so I have enough viewing distance even for a 42" screen. DVD's are only 720x480I Component natively anyway.
Now Bluray is another story.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Don't you have a living room display (or other room)?


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> Don't you have a living room display (or other room)?


Yeah, it's my brother's, but I only really watch tv in my bedroom. Plus my parents tell me to "keep your home theater junk out of the Living Room".


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

OK, if a 50" TV won't fit in your bedroom now, why will it fit in May?


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> OK, if a 50" TV won't fit in your bedroom now, why will it fit in May?


I may either movie out in May if I get a REAL JOB, or else, I'll be at least working full time and I'll just buy a smaller bed allowing me to achieve the minimum viewing distance for a 50" in by bedroom.
I'd just move into the master bedroom and then I could get a tv up to 73", but the thing is that the master bedroom is right over the kitchen and right above the business phone so I wouldn't be able to get any sleep there. I'll DEFINATELY be getting Fiostv in May, as there's no way I'll settle for overcompression when I have some real free time on my hands unlike now when I'm getting ready to edit as I type this and I've wasted a perfectly good 5 minutes on just writing this.


----------



## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I had an idea that might apply to you.

Check the Black Friday sites to see what's going to be on sale at Best Buy on that weekend. Of course, the best tvs will be hard to get. But go a few days early and buy what you decided on, then take advantage of BB's price protection when the price drops after Thanksgiving.


----------



## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

Good idea.

I bought an HDTV from Circuit City 2 years ago on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. They gave me the Black Friday price on both the TV and the furniture I got for it. They didn't have the furniture in stock, so they took off another 10% and delivered it free.



djlong said:


> Check the Black Friday sites to see what's going to be on sale at Best Buy on that weekend. Of course, the best tvs will be hard to get. But go a few days early and buy what you decided on, then take advantage of BB's price protection when the price drops after Thanksgiving.


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

spartanstew said:


> What are you using right now?
> 
> Keep in mind that by next May, many things will have changed. The LaserVue might be out at a reasonable price, for example.
> 
> I doubt that the TV you're looking at now will be the one you'd get 7 months from now.


I'll say this much about the new LaserVue technology: as of now, IMHO it's much ado about nothing. When I went to see it at a major electronics establishment that has the perfect setup for their HDTVs, I was very unimpressed with it. In fact, I found LED DLP units and plasma units had far better pictures. To top it off, the LaserVue models I saw were astronomically high in price.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> To top it off, the LaserVue models I saw were astronomically high in price.


There's currently only 1. And yes, at $7000 it's too high priced. In May, however, it could be significantly cheaper (< $5000).


----------



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

That's still way too much for a PQ that is noticeably inferior.


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

spartanstew said:


> There's currently only 1. And yes, at $7000 it's too high priced. In May, however, it could be significantly cheaper (< $5000).


With my employee discount I could land a 60" 2009 Pioneer Kuro Extreme Contrast Elite+ ISF Calibration for less than that next June. It's hard to pay more for a product with inferior picture quality. But what do I know people paid more money for crappy 13" to 38" LCDs a few years back when comprably priced CRT HDTVs had better picture quality not to mention far better response time, contrast ratio, deeper blacks, motion resolution retention, etc for far far less.
If picture quality was the #1 concern for people then CRTs would be the best selling displays in the 13" to 38" range.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I haven't seem the Laser yet, but know several people that have. I wouldn't call it inferior yet. I've received mixed reports and most places (actually I think it's only on display at two locations - one in California and one in Texas) are reluctant to allow setting changes (let alone pro calibration). It'll be interesting to see the results when they're actually out in the field and properly tested. 

You're right, I wouldn't pay that for an inferior product either. I might, however, pay it for an equal product that is 5" larger diagonally. My main point was that a lot is going to change between now and next May. There's no way I'd be thinking about a specific set to by 7 months from now.


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

PS. I don't want to turn it into a Laservue thread, but if someone thinks it's noticeably inferior, these might be good links:

Laser VS. Kuro

Laservue, an impression


----------



## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Any of your available 'crappy' HDTV's are anything but 'crappy';

--- CHAS


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

HIPAR said:


> Any of your available 'crappy' HDTV's are anything but 'crappy';
> 
> --- CHAS


Yeah, but anything but a Kuro is and a few excpetions like maybe Saman's top of the line Plasmas an Panasonic's top of the line ones, all the rest are pretty crappy.
I mean both Plasma and LCD have major design flasws so you have to minimise all the remaining flaws as much as possible not to be crappy.
They're not well refined like the way CRTs were from 6+ decades of refinement.
BTW, I looked at some of them closely. I think the Sony 37" XBR6 is crappy because it handles motion horrible, it has an 8ms response time wereas the monitor I'm typing on has a responsetime that's measured in mere nanoseconds. The blacks on the XBR were all horrible medium gray, they'll look meduim gray in my man cave with correct 6500K backlighting. The motion handling and motion resolution retention @ high speed on the XBR was horrible. If the motion was fast ehough, then an SD crt will have a higher mostion resolution that that.
The Panasonic 42" Viera which I'll probably get as less crappy, but stil a little crappy.
It only had a 20,000:1 native contrast ratio far below the CRT standard of >1,000,000:1, and it had a response time measured in microseconds instead of nanoseconds.
The blacks are a lot better than the Sony, but they're still a Dark Gray, not a CRT like DEEP 7.5IRE black, or for computer monitors a deep 0IRE black. Probably the biggest problem is with the Paasonic was Green Phosphor Delay. This gives a ghost like after effect of an image you've just watched. The Green Phosphors decay slower than others and thus you get like a green phosphor ghost after image.
That being said, I think the Panasonic is till the best tv for $600, unless somebody would give mie like a new 34" XBR960 CRT for the same price.


----------



## pfueri (Jan 22, 2007)

(Should I just get a crappy HDTV like the XBR6 or PZ-4280U right now or just save that $600 so I could use it later to get a Pioneer Elite instead of just a regular Kuro?)




I don't know how told you these were crappy TV's but they are some of the top models out .Panasonic has one of the best plasma's out.The Pioneer Kuro witch is about twice the price as the Panasonic uses the same panel as the Panasonic top model's.Pioneer uses Panasonic plasma panel's.


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Jack: I think you are being overly critical when you dismiss most TV's as being crappy. To begin with, "them's fighting words, podner!" Aside from that, the picture quality of both the receivers you are discussing is quite good. Either one would be quite acceptable in a home environment. That being said, I echo the posts exhibiting a preference for the Panasonic over the Sony, for two reasons: you'd be getting a plasma receiver as opposed to a traditional LCD and the larger screen size. There's no doubt that the plasma has the better blacks and contrast ratio. 
You'll always be able to use the 42 inch TV as a bedroom TV when you upgrade to a big screen receiver.

The downside to plasma TV's, of course, is heat output. They are far bigger heat generators than LCD's, as I recall. It used to be that plasma TV's were not suited to scenes where there was rapid motion, due to phosphor decay times. That no longer seems to be the case.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

TV is a luxury no matter how you spin it, so to some extent it stands to reason to try to buy the best experience that you can.

However, there is going overboard with "only the best or nothing at all"...

If I can't have a Porsche then I'll just walk 50 miles every day. That would be silly, right?

Something to be said for smart shopping... but at the end of the day I'd rather have a "crappy" TV than no TV... so I'll make compromises. Plus, sometimes the difference in a $1000 TV and a $10,000 TV is really not worth $9000!


----------



## eco (Oct 25, 2008)

The prices on LCDs are expected to drop significantly on black friday and thereafter.


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

eco said:


> The prices on LCDs are expected to drop significantly on black friday and thereafter.


Yeah, but when you're looking at yourself on an LCD with a camcorder, you can go to lunch, eat, and come back from lunch and on the LCD you still haven't left for lunch yet because the response time is so bad 
I'm used to nanosecond response time from CRTs so even the microsecond response time of Plasmas would be tough and the several millisecond response time of LCDs would be really tough. Even an employee who didn't know anything about televisions said "this tv has a delay" after she was waving her hands in front of a Sony XBR6 hooked up to a Sony SR12 HD camcorder.


----------



## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Jack White said:


> ... Even an employee who didn't know anything about televisions said "this tv has a delay" after she was waving her hands in front of a Sony XBR6 hooked up to a Sony SR12 HD camcorder.


So does that delay result from response of the individual pixels or is it the the delay going through the chain of events associated with digital encoding - processing - decoding?

--- CHAS


----------



## Jack White (Sep 17, 2002)

HIPAR said:


> So does that delay result from response of the individual pixels or is it the the delay going through the chain of events associated with digital encoding - processing - decoding?
> 
> --- CHAS


8ms response time=8ms delay.


----------

