# Spaceway Launch Set for November ???



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Arianespace has its next mission, and it's for the second Ka-Band satellite joining DirecTV's fleet.

The launch services provider said lift-off for Spaceway 2 is set for Nov. 9.

On Thursday, an Ariane 5 launch vehicle rolled out to the final assembly building at the European Spaceport in French Guiana. Next, the launcher will be equipped with the Spaceway 2 satellite and the Telkom 2 communications spacecraft for PT Telkom Indonesia.

The Spaceway launch was delayed this summer due to a technical glitch aboard the PT Telkom payload.

The Spaceway bird is one of four satellites DirecTV is launching during a two-year period as part of an in-orbit expansion. The satellites will enable DirecTV to deliver more than 1,500 local and more than 150 national HD channels and other advanced programming services to consumers nationwide by 2007.

http://www.skyreport.com (Used with permission)


----------



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Spaceway Launch a Week Away

DirecTV's newest satellite, the next-generation Spaceway 2 bird, is moving closer to launch. 
Arianespace said the two satellites for its upcoming Ariane 5 flight have been integrated in their combined payload "stack," bringing the Spaceway 2 and Telkom 2 spacecraft together for the first time. The move, which took place at Arianespace's Spaceport in French Guiana this week, "represents another important step forward" in preparations for the Nov. 9 launch of the heavy-lift vehicle, the launch services provider said.

The Spaceway bird is one of four satellites DirecTV is launching during a two-year period as part of an in-orbit expansion. The satellites will enable DirecTV to deliver more than 1,500 local and more than 150 national HD channels and other advanced programming services to consumers nationwide by 2007.

http://www.skyreport.com (Used with permission)


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Ariane 5 ECA launch of Spaceway 2 and Telkom 2 set for November 10.

Arianespace has scheduled the next Ariane 5 launch for Thursday, November 10. An Ariane 5 ECA launcher will orbit the Spaceway 2 and Telkom 2 satellites. Liftoff is scheduled within the following launch window: 
8:44 to 9:29 pm on Thursday, November 10 in Kourou, French Guiana
7:44 to 8:29 pm in Washington, DC
23:44 to 00:29 GMT, November 10-11
12:44 to 1:29 am on Friday, November 11 in Paris.

Follow the launch live on the internet: http://www.videocorner.tv/index.php?langue=en


----------



## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

Is Directv going to broadcast the launch? And does anyone know when we'll know if it went off like it should?


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Red Dwarf said:


> Is Directv going to broadcast the launch? And does anyone know when we'll know if it went off like it should?


-----------------
Don't know for sure yet, if D*, will have it on. They did cover S/W-1 on ch. 855
and made that ch. live just a little before the launch, so keep checking or watch
the web-cast from Arianespace at http://www.videocorner.tv/index.php?langue=en 
I'm sure they will tell us pretty quick if things went ok or not.... 
It now looks like D* will have the launch on ch. 399, possibly on 11/13
as the launch for 11/12 was scrubbed..maybe @ 6:44 PM ET.??


----------



## Ghostwriter (Oct 11, 2005)

150 HD channels in 2 years....doubt it.


----------



## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

Ghostwriter said:


> 150 HD channels in 2 years....doubt it.


"enable them to deliver"....that's like having a 500 gallon gas tank....doesn't mean it's going to come with 500 gallons of gas....and it's a lot easier to put 5 gallons at a time every so often than 500 all at once.


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Delayed 48 hours.........
http://www.arianespace.com/site/news/releases/05_11_9_release_index.html


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

This evening. 
Channel 855 maybe...........

IA 6 - C 14


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

JohnH said:


> This evening.
> Channel 855 maybe...........
> 
> IA 6 - C 14


When I went to the net site...http://www.videocorner.tv/index.php?langue=en
it said "Postponed Launch"....anyone know what's going on?? 
It's not even listed as a upcoming launch..does'nt look good


----------



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

moonman said:


> When I went to the net site...http://www.videocorner.tv/index.php?langue=en
> it said "Postponed Launch"....anyone know what's going on??
> It's not even listed as a upcoming launch..does'nt look good


I just checked the site and the launch is listed as a current mission and appears to be on schedule for this evening.. 
It is possible you may hav seent he notice from the other day when they had to delay it 48 hours..


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

fluffybear said:


> I just checked the site and the launch is listed as a current mission and appears to be on schedule for this evening..
> It is possible you may hav seent he notice from the other day when they had to delay it 48 hours..


--------------------
NO afraid not..............
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/ariane/v167/status.html :nono2:


----------



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

moonman said:


> --------------------
> NO afraid not..............
> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/ariane/v167/status.html :nono2:


There seems to be different information floating around.

The site that was mentioned in the original post I refered to makes no mention of any delay and continues to state it is on track for this evening.

Even the site you refer to do does not claim the mission has been scrubed just that there appears to be a problem which may result in the count down to be scrubbed and they are awaiting official word.

2055 GMT (3:55 p.m. EST)

There may be technical problems that are forcing a scrub of today's countdown. We're awaiting official word from Arianespace.

Let'sall just keep our fingers crossed that this thing is going to go up on schedule. It has been delayed far to many times (especially for something that was delivered ahead of schedule)


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Some of the problem may be that some apparently do not know what time it is. A lot of sites say 6:45 EST. Arianespace says 7:45 EST.
http://www.arianespace.com/site/launchstatus/status_sub_index.html


----------



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

JohnH said:


> Some of the problem may be that some apparently do not know what time it is. A lot of sites say 6:45 EST. Arianespace says 7:45 EST.
> http://www.arianespace.com/site/launchstatus/status_sub_index.html


I noticed that as well.


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Arianespace probably don't realize we are actually on "Standard" Time now. 

Too many people call Daylight Savings Time, Standard Time.


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Postponed:

http://www.arianespace.com/site/news/news_sub_missionupdate_index.html


----------



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 2005
2323 GMT (6:23 p.m. EST)

Arianespace just confirmed tonight's scheduled mission to deploy two commercial communications satellites -- slated for launch a half-hour from now -- was thwarted by technical problems earlier today. No details about the postponement were provided.

The European launch provider says plans for reattempting the liftoff will be announced later.

"The heavy-lift Ariane 5 ECA and its payload of Spaceway 2 for DIRECT TV and Telkom 2 for PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia remain in a safe stand-by mode at Europe's Spaceport in French Guiana," a press statement posted moments ago said.


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

JohnH said:


> This evening.
> Channel 855 maybe...........
> 
> IA 6 - C 14


Looks like ch. 399.............
Directv channel 399

there is a scrolling message across the bottom

says it been delayed until tommorrow 6:44pm ET


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (Apr 28, 2005)

Bet it don't go up this year....lol


----------



## pstineme (May 14, 2004)

It will be a couple more days....at least

http://www.arianespace.com/site/news/news_sub_missionupdate_index.html


----------



## aaronwt (Aug 14, 2003)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> Bet it don't go up this year....lol


Bet it does!


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

DirecTV Launch Sees Another Delay

A problem encountered Saturday during final preparations
of an Ariane 5 launch vehicle with DirecTV's next-generation
satellite on board resulted in postponement of the
dual-satellite launch mission.

Arianespace said the launch will be rescheduled, but didn't
offer a date. Minor problems with ground support infrastructure
were blamed for the postponement. The launch vehicle was
returned to the final assembly building at Arianespace's launch
facility in French Guiana to resolve the problems.

The heavy-lift Ariane 5 and its payload - consisting of
DirecTV's Spaceway 2 satellite and the Telkom 2 for PT
Telekomunikasi Indonesia - were initially scheduled for launch
Saturday. The mission has been delayed a number of times
within the last week.

The Spaceway bird is one of four satellites DirecTV is launching
during a two-year period as part of an in-orbit expansion. The
satellites will enable DirecTV to deliver more than 1,500 local
and more than 150 national HD channels and other advanced
programming services to consumers nationwide by 2007.

www.SkyReport.com - used with permission


----------



## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

maybe it was the riots!!


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Wow...they can't even set a date for when it will be rescheduled!!! This don't look
good at all.


----------



## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

Launch Date: November 16, 2005

Launcher version: Ariane 5 ECA

Payload(s): Spaceway 2 & Telkom 2

Customer(s): For Spaceway 2: DIRECTV

For Telkom 2: PT Telkom Indonesia 
Mission: For Spaceway 2: TV broadcast

For Telkom 2: Telecommunications

Payload prime contractor(s): For Spaceway 2: Boeing Satellite Systems

For Telkom 2: Orbital Sciences Corporation


----------



## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

Hopefully it will launch this time!


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

They still don't know it is a 5 hour difference between GMT and EST.

http://www.arianespace.com/site/news/news_sub_missionupdate_index.html


----------



## syphix (Jun 23, 2004)

Here we go again!!


----------



## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Red Dwarf said:


> Is Directv going to broadcast the launch? And does anyone know when we'll know if it went off like it should?


-----
The launch has been rescheduled for tonight Nov. 16. It is presumed that D*
will carry it on ch. 399(making that ch. live shortly before the event). You can
also watch it on the internet @ http://www.videocorner.tv/index.php?langue=en
If you are going to Tivo it, be aware that the Launch windows as given by Arianespace(7:46-8:31PM) are not correct, and you will be an hour late for
the event. The window for Wash. D.C. is 6:46-7:31PM EST.


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

The French are really going to be confused with the new daylight saving time rules if they still don't understand the existing ones... Let's hope they can (finally) get this bird up!


----------



## syphix (Jun 23, 2004)

T Minus 2:30 on ch. 399!!


----------



## syphix (Jun 23, 2004)

We have liftoff!!


----------



## txfeinbergs (Nov 16, 2005)

Looks like a success!


----------



## syphix (Jun 23, 2004)

She's seperated, heading to her final orbit position. Cool!


----------



## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

Press Release Source: DIRECTV, Inc.

*DIRECTV Sets the Stage for Aggressive Expansion of Local HD Programming with Successful Launch of Spaceway F2 Satellite
Wednesday November 16, 7:29 pm ET 
Thirty-Six Major Markets Will Have Access to Local HD Channels Via DIRECTV by Early 2006 
Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta and San Francisco to Roll Out this Month * 

EL SEGUNDO, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 16, 2005--DIRECTV continued to build the in-orbit framework for the nationwide rollout of hundreds of local high-definition (HD) broadcast channels today with the successful launch of the Spaceway F2 satellite. The new satellite, combined with the Spaceway F1 satellite, will enable DIRECTV to provide local HD channels to customers in 36 major markets, or more than 57 percent of U.S. television households, by early next year.
ADVERTISEMENT

The Boeing-built spacecraft lifted off today from the Guiana Space Center in Kourou, French Guiana, at 3:46 p.m. PST (8:46 p.m. Kourou time).

Spaceway F2, along with the Spaceway F1 satellite that was placed in orbit in late April, will support the rollout of up to 500 local HD channels. DIRECTV will offer local HD broadcast channels in 12 cities by the end of this year and 24 cities early next year.

Spaceway F1 began transmitting local HD signals to customers in Detroit on Oct. 20, and four markets -- Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta and San Francisco -- will begin receiving local HD broadcast channels this month. DIRECTV will also launch HD locals in Tampa, Dallas, Houston, Boston, Washington D.C., Los Angeles and New York in December.

The Spaceway satellites will be joined by two more next-generation spacecraft in 2007, and together they will deliver more than 1,500 local and 150 national HD channels to DIRECTV customers nationwide.

"With our unprecedented rollout of local digital and high-definition broadcast channels in major markets underway and the recent launch of our new DIRECTV Plus® DVR, we are moving aggressively to provide our customers with an unparalleled television entertainment experience and distinguish the DIRECTV service in the marketplace," said Chase Carey, president and CEO, DIRECTV, Inc. "The successful launch of the Spaceway 2 satellite moves us a step closer to our goal of offering local HD programming to most, if not all, TV households in the United States."

The Boeing-built 702 model satellite was carried into space by an Ariane 5 ECA launch vehicle and will provide commercial service at 99.2 degrees West Longitude (WL), one of the Ka-band orbital slots that DIRECTV will use to transmit local digital and HD signals via spot beam to its customers.

After 29 minutes, the rocket left the spacecraft in a geosynchronous transfer orbit with a high point of 22,300 miles (36,000 km) above the equator. Controllers at the Hartebeesthoek ground station in South Africa made contact with the satellite and confirmed that all systems are functioning properly.

In the coming weeks, controllers will maneuver the spacecraft into a circular orbit; deploy the antennas and solar arrays; and test operational functions, communications payload and propulsion system.

The Spaceway F2 is identical to the Spaceway F1 satellite, which launched April 26 from the Sea Launch platform, and has commenced commercial operations from the 102.8-degree WL orbital slot.

DIRECTV, Inc. is the nation's leading and fastest-growing digital multichannel television service provider with more than 15 million customers. DIRECTV and the Cyclone Design logo are registered trademarks of DIRECTV, Inc. DIRECTV (NYSETV - News) is a world-leading provider of digital multichannel television entertainment services. DIRECTV is approximately 34 percent owned by News Corporation.


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

Few Questions:
1) Does anyone have the rollout schedule city by city with dates?
2) Will getting the local HD channels require a new receiver?
3) What will DirecTV charge for the local HD channels?

4) Also, I currently have an Internation Dish (oval one) pointing at 95 and 101, will I need a new dish for local HDs?

Thank you.


----------



## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

2devnull said:


> Few Questions:
> 1) Does anyone have the rollout schedule city by city with dates?


I do not know of any official schedule out yet.



2devnull said:


> 2) Will getting the local HD channels require a new receiver?
> 4) Also, I currently have an Internation Dish (oval one) pointing at 95 and 101, will I need a new dish for local HDs?


Yes to both questions. The H20 receiver is the only receiver at this time that can handle the signal from the new satellites, and it requires a new 5 LNB dish that covers all the satellites from 99 to 119-but not the 95 sat for the international channels.



2devnull said:


> 3) What will DirecTV charge for the local HD channels?


 As they are local channels, they will be included in the local part of the basic package. IOW, no extra charge.


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks for the response. I only signed up with Directv in August and I have 2 D10 and an R10. I bought the international dish myself to get 95 and 101. Now, just to get the locals in HD, I need a new 5 LNB dish. Will Directv provide this dish free or do I have to buy it. Also, what will happen to my D10s and R10? Will Directv swap those out for H20s and a HD capable Direct Tivo or will I need to pay for them all?


----------



## lee1203 (Jul 14, 2005)

2devnull said:


> Thanks for the response. I only signed up with Directv in August and I have 2 D10 and an R10. I bought the international dish myself to get 95 and 101. Now, just to get the locals in HD, I need a new 5 LNB dish. Will Directv provide this dish free or do I have to buy it. Also, what will happen to my D10s and R10? Will Directv swap those out for H20s and a HD capable Direct Tivo or will I need to pay for them all?


all will be free from dish to receiver and there are no Mpeg4 directv tivo or mpeg4 dvr's for that matter as of right now but by the time they get to you there might be a hd pvr but it will not be a tivo


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

so, to get the HD locals, the receiver and dish WILL need to be changed because the current one I have does not support MPEG4? Am I understanding this correctly?


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

lee1203 said:


> all will be free from dish to receiver and there are no Mpeg4 directv tivo or mpeg4 dvr's for that matter as of right now but by the time they get to you there might be a hd pvr but it will not be a tivo


Aparently all will not be free. In fact, it appears that nothing will be free and you will have to buy the receiver (H20) and dish yourself.

Here is a link explaining what is happenning in Detroit (which was the first city to get HD locals):
http://www.solidsignal.com/detroit/


----------



## Red Dwarf (Aug 25, 2002)

If that's the case I'm sitting tight and won't upgrade. I'm in Los Angeles. When the MPEG 2 HD goes off the air, I'm walking. This is BS


----------



## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

That website is totally wrong! People will say anything to get a sale!!!


----------



## tahoerob (Mar 22, 2003)

The rollout should be based roughly on the top 36 markets:

http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/issues/digitaltv/DTVStations.asp

New York 1 
Los Angeles 2 
Chicago 3 
Philadelphia 4 
Boston (Manchester) 
San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 6 
Dallas-Ft. Worth 7 
Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 8 
Atlanta 9 
Houston 10 
Detroit 11 
Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 
Seattle-Tacoma 13 
Phoenix (Prescott) 
Minneapolis-St. Paul 
Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 16 
Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 17 
Denver 18 
Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 19 
Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 20 
St. Louis 21 
Pittsburgh 22 
Portland, OR 23 
Baltimore 24 
Indianapolis 25 
San Diego 26 
Charlotte 27 
Hartford & New Haven 28 
Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 29 
Nashville 30 
Kansas City 31 
Columbus, OH 32
Milwaukee 33 
Cincinnati 34 
Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 35 
Salt Lake City 36


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

that list order is not correct since they started with Detroit first.


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

Smthkd said:


> That website is totally wrong! People will say anything to get a sale!!!


Where is a URL that they say it is different or free? I called Directv and they told me I have to buy everything when the times comes.  Just all madness to rip off the US consumers big this time.


----------



## SouthernSky (Jul 15, 2003)

Is the plan for Spaceway 1 & 2 strictly to deliver HD? Or will these birds also deliver locals programming to current non-locals markets? I can't find an answer to that.


----------



## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

2devnull said:


> that list order is not correct since they started with Detroit first.


List seems to ordered by market size, not launch order.


----------



## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

2devnull said:


> Where is a URL that they say it is different or free? I called Directv and they told me I have to buy everything when the times comes.  Just all madness to rip off the US consumers big this time.


First of all this website is "NOT" Directv's webpage, its like any electronic store that wants to sell products, Secondly, If you are all ready a Directv "HD" customer with a active account, a active HD receiver with the HD pack or Locals, you will get a free upgrade. Directv have said this multiple times in their conference calls prior to the release of Mpeg4 to the public. As for this webite, of course they are not going to tell you what D* stated because they want to sell the product to you and make their "own" money/profit! Now if you are a Directv customer but "DO NOT" have an HD receiver or HD package, common since tell you that you will have to buy the product then, as you are making a step up to HD unlike current HD subs. Plus "NEW" Directv customers who want HD will also have to buy their HD receivers.  C'mon guys, think! Do you really believe that D* is going to make you buy all new receivers at full price "again" just to see HD after you have all ready invested so much in your first receivers!? Not only would that be stupid but it would be devestating to their profits as latest surveys have shown that "HD" customers are normally their best customers who buy all their advance equipment and subscribe to their premium package and sports packages. It would be strategic to lose all your best customers over something as small as free upgraded equipment! :nono2:


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

So, in other words, those who do not have current HD service and receivers and what to get their locals in HD will have to buy all new equipment. That is what that website was stating I guess.

The bad part of all this is that I am a new D* customer and it would have been nice for them to tell me this at the begining than to try and get me with a few D10 and R10 just for those to become useless for any HD in a few months. Even if I had gotton the H10 and HD Tivo, those would have been useless also but I would still not have gotton them since I only wanted HD locals and those were not available anyway. D* is as usual trying to scam everyone. I would have stayed with DISH had D* not gotton a monopoly over certain programming.

Anyway, since my interest is not to let D* rip me off and I want only locals in HD, OTA is my best bet and that is the way I am going. I would like to get more channels in HD, but for me that would not be necessary due to the lies and costs involved.


----------



## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

2devnull said:


> Anyway, since my interest is not to let D* rip me off and I want only locals in HD, OTA is my best bet and that is the way I am going. I would like to get more channels in HD, but for me that would not be necessary due to the lies and costs involved.


Hold on...

1) if you went the OTA HD route, there wouldn't be a problem at this time. You would have received all OTA locals you can get plus all HD available on DirecTV at this time. We still don't know what plans there are to add any national HD in the near future.

2) DirecTV has stated multiple times they would do upgrades for HD when MPEG-4 via Spaceway came along. If you don't have HD, of course you'd have to pay for an HD upgrade.

3) You appear to be dealing through a retailer, which of course will tell you a different story than DirecTV. The retailer wants your money.


----------



## rrbhokies (May 10, 2004)

Our local BestBuy and Circuit Citys in Virginia have both the H10 and the new H20 receivers. Both are priced at $199. No rebates are available. It's only the R10 and the new R15's that they are discounting for free after rebates.

However, I just saw a website that advertises the Dark Friday after Thanksgiving sales that are going to happen. Both the Best Buy and Compusa ads are saying:

DirecTV High Definition Receiver - Free After Rebate 

Now, I don't know if that will apply to the H20 or if it's just the H10's in inventory that they are trying to get rid of. Plus, you have to take all this with a grain of salt because this is taken from a website and may not truly represent what the actual sale will be on Dark Friday. However, if I was in the market for an H10 or H20, it couldn't hurt to wait until Thanksgiving to see if you can get an H20 for free after rebate.

That said, there is still going to be the issue of having the new dish installed by Directv and I haven't seen anything referenced about how much Directv is charging to install the new dish. Virginia doesn't get HD locals until December, so they aren't even installing the new dishes out here just yet anyways.

So many questions left to be answered.


----------



## GoCubs (Jun 14, 2004)

I work for a retailer that sells DTV. Our understanding is DTV will swap out an old HD box with a new H20 and replace the dish for FREE. That's the line they are going with right now and they say they will stick with it. 

Keep in mind if you have 2 HD boxes and want to upgrade both to MPEG-4 you'll have to buy one (DTV replaces the other). 

The biggest hurdle DTV has now is getting the dishes. They have plenty of boxes.

As an FYI, the MPEG-4 HD-DVR will not be ready until the June timeframe.


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

Ao if I go and get the dark friday free H10, DTV will then swap it out for an H20? If I get it now, do I need to pay them for HD now whereas I am only interested in receiving the HD locals when they get them to Orlando?


----------



## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Just because you buy an HD receiver doesn't mean you must subscribe to the HD-pack. You can get the H10 and get your local channels OTA, without purchasing the HD-pack.


----------



## 2devnull (Sep 28, 2005)

Or just use my HDTV OTA receiver so I can continue to use my R10


----------



## wildrunner (Nov 20, 2005)

Here in Detroit BB is selling the H20 for $199 and it alos has a $199 mail in rebate......Called D* and they said this is the current offfer for Detriot only!


----------



## kepper (Nov 17, 2005)

HD DBS is still in the "early adoption" stages and it is rare for any company to run expensive promotions that give away first generation equipment. The cost of the promotion generally doesn't equate to a revenue stream to justify it. The equipment is too expensive and the available market is too small.

After D* gets the local HD channels up and running in several major markets that have a significant number of subscribers and have cost reduced the receivers, I'd expect them to start aggressively promoting the service with discounts etc. This is consistent with their past actions. 

Kevin


----------

