# Satellite Dish Wiring for Hopper, Joey, & SuperJoey



## DavidPJ

Hello all,

Our Directv contract is up and I'm looking at either upgrading to a Directv Genie system or Dish Hopper. The Dish config would be 1-Hopper, 2-Joey, 1-SuperJoey. Our home has distributed wiring with (2) RG-6 to the dish and (2) RG-6 to every TV location. I don't know the bandwidth of the cable used, but it was installed in 2008. We're presently using 4-Directv HD receivers and no DVRs.

With this config, how many RG-6 cables are needed to run between the dish and equipment room in the basement? If I changed the SuperJoey to a Joey would it change the number of coax cables to the dish? Is only 1-RG-6 needed to the Hopper and each Joey and SuperJoey?

I've been happy with Directv but I'm looking at Dish for cost reasons and Dish seems to have better features with the Hopper and Sling.

Thanks for your help.


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## harsh

They'll install a third cable from the new dish and mount (since DISH still uses a 1-5/8" mast and your DIRECTV mast is 2").

Each box requires a single coax.


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## DavidPJ

Thanks harsh. Is there any way around the need for the third cable?


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## Stewart Vernon

To run a two-Hopper setup OR in your case a Hopper + SuperJoey setup requires the dual node, which requires 3 direct feeds from the satellite.

With a little creativity, they could mount the dual node outside your home and use taps to run the Joeys (assuming they are not wireless ones) so that your 2 existing runs into the house could still be used without having to run that 3rd line into the house... but there is no way around the need for that 3rd cable from the dish to run somewhere to get to the node.


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## LtMunst

When I first got my 2 Hopper / 2 Joey system installed (replacing 2 722s) they just used the 2 existing lines into the house. Worked for a few weeks and then the MOCA started constantly going out. Dish tech came out and ended up running that 3rd line into the house to fix it. He said he could not understand how it ever worked at all with the 2 lines.


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## DavidPJ

Thanks for the info. Mounting the dual node outside could work for me. Is it weather proof or would it have to be mounted in an enclosure? Is it a common practice for a Dish tech to mount the dual node outside or would it be a special case that the tech may or may not be willing to do?

Thanks again!


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## Blowgun

I don't know if it is common, but here the tech mounted the node under the dish and then used the existing two cables going under the house to make the final connection to the Hoppers. When I asked about the effects of rain and snow on the out in the open node, the tech said that they are designed to be used outside. So it is either that or a form of job security.


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## DavidPJ

Many thanks for the info! Being able to locate the dual node outside is a huge help. Knowing this, I'm probably switching to Dish. Thanks again.


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## peds48

Most satellite support hard hardware gear is made to be waterproof, common sense measures should be taken when it is installed outdoors, such as making sure the cables connecting to it "loop" down as to prevent water running to it as opposed away from it.


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## Stewart Vernon

The equipment itself (nodes, switches, etc.) are designed for outdoor use. There might be some exceptions in some parts of the US where the weather can get extremely hot or extremely cold... I don't know what the operating tolerances are... but outside of that, they are designed to be installed outdoors. I have had things both ways... not Hopper equipment... but my DPP44 switch is outdoors now but I used to have it indoors.

As also noted, proper routing of the cables to provide loops to keep water from dripping in, and you should be fine.


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## Zulu

Blowgun said:


> I don't know if it is common, but here the tech mounted the node under the dish and then _used the existing two cables_ going under the house to make the final connection to the Hoppers.


If you're running lines from the DPX ("TO HOST") connectors, they should be 3 GHz RG6. Those "existing" cables may be 2 GHz.


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## P Smith

Existing RG-6 cable can run up to 3 GHz just fine, they have been manufacturing when the sweep freq wasn't in specs.


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## DavidPJ

I'm ready to order Dish service today, but I want to double check my wiring concern. With the availability for only 2 RG-6s into the house, can you please tell me exactly how the cabling will be made from the dish? Is it 3 cables from the dish to an outside mounted duo node, then 2 cables into the house? Or, is there any other hardware (splitter, tap, integrator) that would be mounted outside that would connect to my existing 2 RG-6s going into the house? I've looked at a few Dish PDFs and they only show a duo node when 2 Hoppers are used.

The config is 1 Hopper, 1 SuperJoey, and 2 Joeys.

Thanks.


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## Stewart Vernon

For wiring purposes, a 2-Hopper situation and a Hopper+SuperJoey situation are identical. Each needs its own run of RG-6 directly from the dual node.

Your Joeys (assuming they are not wireless ones) can be split from either a Hopper or a SuperJoey line with the use of a tap. Since you don't want additional cable/holes running from outside to inside, the tap(s) would have to be on the inside.

Your best bet would be Wireless Joeys because then no additional wiring at all for those... but if you're getting wired Joeys, you can split each one (using the tap) from a different Hopper/SuperJoey line at any point in the house OR you can use one tap, and Joeys can be split from each other using a regular splitter (that splitter would need to cover the whole frequency range, installer should have them if he decides to wire things that way).


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## DavidPJ

Thanks Stewart, that was a huge help. So if I got this right:

Hopper: (1) cable run from the duo node outside to the Hopper (through the wiring closet)

Super Joey: (1) cable run from the duo node outside to the Super Joey (through the wiring closet)

Joeys: Use (1) tap in the equipment room on each line going to the Hopper and Super Joey for 2 Joeys.
OR
Use (1) tap and (1) 2-way splitter for 2 Joeys.

Would this be a standard Dish supported configuration that the installer would agree to or would he push for no duo node and want 3 cables into the house?

One other thing I have to consider is a 5th room (guest room) that is used very infrequently. I need to move a Joey and TV to that location when needed. I could easily change the coax connection in the equipment room when the guest room is needed, but I rather have it permanently connected so I all I would have to do is plug in the Joey and TV.

Regarding wireless, if I had (1) Hopper, (1) Super Joey, and (2) Wireless Joeys, how many coax connections would need to run into the house? The other concern for wireless is that guest room is above the garage that is not attached to the house. It is a short distance, maybe 20 feet, plus another 30 feet to get to the actual location of the TV set. So I may not be able to use wireless to get to this location, unless I have another access point maybe in the guest room, if that's even possible. So I just thought I would just use wired everywhere and keep things simple and the most reliable.

Thanks again for your help. I know I'm asking for a lot of detail but I want to be sure of the wiring before I proceed with ordering service to replace our DirecTV service.


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## Stewart Vernon

The dual node is a requirement... the only decision is whether it goes inside or outside of the house. Frankly, I would think the installer would be fine with putting the dual node outside because it's easier for him and it's designed to be installed outdoors.

Taps are a standard component, so no problems there either. Functionally there's no difference between running a line for a Joey back to the node OR using a tap from a Hopper line, so I would expect an installer to do whatever is easiest especially if that is also what the customer wants.

The choice of using a tap on each Hopper/SuperJoey line vs one tap and then a splitter, for both Joeys, is subject to how/where you need wires going to the Joeys. If I'm remembering your pre-wiring correctly, you have unique coax going to every room already... so I don't know that one is measurably easier than the other really... both taps or tap + splitter would be in the same room where everything comes in from outside and then distributes to the rest of the house, right? So it's probably a matter of what the installer wants to do unless you have a preference there.

The guest room, for the detached garage is where you might have the only "problem" unless you already have coax running to that. I'm not sure you mentioned that before... and you're right, Wireless is more convenient but the distance could post a problem. Someone else wanted to do something like that recently and I don't remember how/if they resolved the signal strength to get a good WiFi from the Access Point to that remote location.


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## DavidPJ

Thanks again Stewart. You're correct in that we have distributed wiring with (2) RG-6 cables from each room homed to a central equipment room and that includes the guest room above the garage. So, although I will only have 4 rooms with TVs, I would like to have the wiring in place for 5 rooms to accommodate the guest room. When I need to have service in the guest room, I would move a Joey and TV to that room. From a wiring perspective is that possible? Would it just be another tap on a splitter?


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## Stewart Vernon

Ok... so all the wiring, even the garage, is already there...

Two ways to wire this...

Tap on each Hopper/SuperJoey line, and one 2-way splitter on either tapped-line to connect for that garage.

OR

One tap, pick a line, and one 3-way splitter to feed both Joeys + that garage location.

It might come down to what the installer has on hand... he may or may not have a 3-way splitter and getting that garage location functional would technically not be part of his work order. If you're nice, most installers I've dealt with will take care of you in this situation where they literally are running no coax anywhere as it makes their work fairly easy at just pointing the Dish and plugging everything up and activating all the receivers... then of course you're on your own to move a Joey to that garage later and make sure it works from there.


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## DavidPJ

That's great news! For awhile I was thinking that 5 wired locations would not be possible. Even if the installer wouldn't do it, I imagine I could buy my own splitter and/or tap and add the garage guest suite.

Thanks again. I'm so happy all this is possible with my existing 2 coax cables leading into the house.


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## James Long

The wiring is a little different for a SuperJoey than a second Hopper. A single node and an "integrator" are used instead of a duo node. (I made the same mistake until I was shown the integrator diagram.)

Please see the attached diagram for a maxed out "five room" SuperJoey system. The DPP44 and individual LNBs would usually be replaced by the switch built in to the LNBs on the dish (two wires from the dish to the solo node, a third wire from the dish to the integrator). The Hopper w/sling could be connected via Ethernet and not Wi-Fi and any additional joeys deleted if it is not a "five room" setup.

If your cables are going the right places you should be OK. One cable to the Hopper from the node ... one from the SuperJoey to the integrator and the Joeys branched off of the connection between the node an the integrator.


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## HoTat2

I always wondered why Dish refers to "taps" as such, when they are actually a kind of diplexer. Or more generically "integrator" as James said, separating or combining the satellite and MoCA network signals.

A "tap" is really a type of two way asymmetrical power splitter. And also unlike a diplexer a tap is not frequency selective.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## HoTat2

James Long said:


> The wiring is a little different for a SuperJoey than a second Hopper. A single node and an "integrator" are used instead of a duo node. (I made the same mistake until I was shown the integrator diagram.)
> 
> Please see the attached diagram for a maxed out "five room" SuperJoey system. The DPP44 and individual LNBs would usually be replaced by the switch built in to the LNBs on the dish (two wires from the dish to the solo node, a third wire from the dish to the integrator). The Hopper w/sling could be connected via Ethernet and not Wi-Fi and any additional joeys deleted if it is not a "five room" setup.
> 
> If your cables are going the right places you should be OK. One cable to the Hopper from the node ... one from the SuperJoey to the integrator and the Joeys branched off of the connection between the node an the integrator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> superjoeyinstall.png


The only problem with this illustration is shouldn't the two output lines from the DPP44 switch to the solo node be colored only blue like the line to the integrator for the SJ?

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## James Long

HoTat2 said:


> Or more generically "integrator" ...


Integrator is not a generic word - it is the name of the specific device, not to be confused with any other specifically named devices.



HoTat2 said:


> The only problem with this illustration is shouldn't the two output lines from the DPP44 switch to the solo node be colored only blue like the line to the integrator for the SJ?


I agree. The diagram is from DISH's documentation, so I left it the way they drew it.
See below for diagrams from a different DISH document.


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## DavidPJ

James Long said:


> The wiring is a little different for a SuperJoey than a second Hopper. A single node and an "integrator" are used instead of a duo node. (I made the same mistake until I was shown the integrator diagram.)
> 
> Please see the attached diagram for a maxed out "five room" SuperJoey system. The DPP44 and individual LNBs would usually be replaced by the switch built in to the LNBs on the dish (two wires from the dish to the solo node, a third wire from the dish to the integrator). The Hopper w/sling could be connected via Ethernet and not Wi-Fi and any additional joeys deleted if it is not a "five room" setup.
> 
> If your cables are going the right places you should be OK. One cable to the Hopper from the node ... one from the SuperJoey to the integrator and the Joeys branched off of the connection between the node an the integrator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> superjoeyinstall.png


Thanks James. Does this mean that for my configuration of 5 rooms that a minimum of 3 coax cables will have to enter the house from the dish? The discussion I've been having with Stewart was to use only my existing 2 coax cables. Also, the drawing shows a ground wire running from the dish to the solo node. If the solo node is located in the house, does that mean a ground wire also has to be run inside the house between the dish and solo node? Or can the dish be grounded outside and the solo node attached to a electrical house ground?

Could you and Stewart please clarify my concern of 2 or 3 coax cables entering the home? I'm pretty confused now. Thanks.


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## James Long

DavidPJ said:


> Thanks James. Does this mean that for my configuration of 5 rooms that a minimum of 3 coax cables will have to enter the house from the dish? The discussion I've been having with Stewart was to use only my existing 2 coax cables. Also, the drawing shows a ground wire running from the dish to the solo node. If the solo node is located in the house, does that mean a ground wire also has to be run inside the house between the dish and solo node? Or can the dish be grounded outside and the solo node attached to a electrical house ground?
> 
> Could you and Stewart please clarify my concern of 2 or 3 coax cables entering the home? I'm pretty confused now. Thanks.


Assuming the node/integrator/splitters were installed indoors you would need at least three coax between the dish and the distribution. If the node and integrator were mounted outside you could connect them together and use two cables to enter the house then use a tap off of the Hopper line to feed the two joeys. The best way to install would be to have a third line enter the house.

I will leave grounding suggestions to the professionals. Personally I would NOT ground in two separate locations.


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## HoTat2

Seems to me the cleanest install is with a duo node on the outside assuring only two lines needed at the POE to the home and using taps and splitters as necessary on the inside for distribution.

The ground wire can then be conveniently run from the dish to the node and from there to the electrical ground of the house.

You might consider purchasing a duo node beforehand to give the installer in case he either does not want to use one or doesn't have one on his truck when he arrives.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## Stewart Vernon

This i new information to me... of course the SuperJoey is still relatively new compared to the other pieces.

The key concern here is the thread starter has distributed wiring already throughout the home... but only has two RG-6 coming in from the outside. He would prefer not to have a third coax ran...so IF this different equipment for the SuperJoey can be installed outdoors so that he still can use just the 2 cables already coming into the house, then all should still be well. It would be nice if the new/different equipment had come up before, but it doesn't sound like it ultimately will be a problem for him.


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## Zulu

HoTat2 said:


> Seems to me the cleanest install is with a duo node on the outside assuring only two lines needed at the POE to the home and using taps and splitters as necessary on the inside for distribution.


Super Joeys only work with _Solo Nodes_ (see Super Joey Quick Reference Guide).


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## Zulu

DavidPJ said:


> Thanks harsh. Is there any way around the need for the third cable?


Get 2 Hoppers instead of a Hopper & Super Joey. Otherwise, no.

A Super Joey is the "Edsel" of the Hopper family . . . for those two additional SJ tuners you limit yourself to 1 Hopper, it uses goofy equipment (the HVN connector on the Integrator is actually an _input_), requires more wiring than 2 Hoppers, and is only a few dollars less per month than a Hopper.


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## HoTat2

Zulu said:


> Super Joeys only work with _Solo Nodes_ (see Super Joey Quick Reference Guide).


No, Hopper + Super Joey installs can use the duo node as well. Its just not recommended for installers due to cost as it's much more expensive than the simple integrator. And probably less efficient since one host line only needs two stacked DPP freq. blocks instead of the full capability of three..

EDIT: The above is incorrect. The Super Joey can only work through an integrator and Hopper with a solo node.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## HoTat2

Zulu said:


> Get 2 Hoppers instead of a Hopper & Super Joey. Otherwise, no.
> 
> A Super Joey is the "Edsel" of the Hopper family . . . for those two additional SJ tuners you limit yourself to 1 Hopper, it uses goofy equipment (the HVN connector on the Integrator is actually an _input_), requires more wiring than 2 Hoppers, and is only a few dollars less per month than a Hopper.


No, the poster can still have only two lines needed at the POE.

By either a duo node mounted on the outside and the use of taps and splitters on the two host lines on the inside for distribution.

Use of a solo node on the outside and an integrator on the inside, again with a suitable arrangement of taps and splitters on the host and integrator's HVN lines inside for distribution.

EDITED: See previous post.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## Zulu

HoTat2 said:


> No, Hopper + Super Joey installs can use the duo node as well. Its just not recommended for installers due to cost as it's much more expensive than the simple integrator. And probably less efficient since one host line only needs two stacked DPP freq. blocks instead of the full capability of three.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Mmmmm . . . I find it interesting that DISH seems to go out of its way to show every possible Super Joey config -- all w/o a Duo Node (see page 11 on in Hopper System Components).


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## HoTat2

Zulu said:


> Mmmmm . . . I find it interesting that DISH seems to go out of its way to show every possible Super Joey config -- all w/o a Duo Node (see page 11 on in Hopper System Components).


Yep, you're correct;

Just re-checked my "old" original source on this and it's wrong.

The SJ only works connected to an integrator with a single Hopper to a solo node.

My bad, thanks for the correction, though there is still a way for the TS to have only two lines at the POE as explained.


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## Zulu

HoTat2 said:


> My bad, thanks for the correction, though *there is still a way for the TS to have only two lines at the POE as explained*.


My bad this time -- I think it would look like this: Hopper + Super Joey + Joey.

Adding additional Joeys would only be a matter of adding 3- or 4-way splitter.


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## DavidPJ

HoTat2 said:


> Yep, you're correct;
> 
> Just re-checked my "old" original source on this and it's wrong.
> 
> The SJ only works connected to an integrator with a single Hopper to a solo node.
> 
> My bad, thanks for the correction, though there is still a way for the TS to have only two lines at the POE as explained.


Thanks everyone for your suggestions. With the Super Joey connected via an Integrator, I'm not seeing how only 2 cables running into the house would work. Wouldn't there have to be 2 coax from the Solo node running into the house (1 going to a 3-way splitter), plus another coax from the dish to the Integrator inside the house? And if the Integrator was outside, then it would be a total of 4 coax entering the house. Am I missing something? I'm referencing the Dish Networks PDF drawing page 16 for 1 Hopper, 3-Joey, and 1 Super Joey.


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## DavidPJ

Zulu said:


> My bad this time -- I think it would look like this: Hopper + Super Joey + Joey.
> 
> Adding additional Joeys would only be a matter of adding 3- or 4-way splitter.


Thanks Zulu. I posted my last post at the same time or just after you posted this post, so I didn't see your post. So the additional 3 Joeys would connect from the Solo Node to a 3-Way splitter in the house. Correct?


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## James Long

DavidPJ said:


> Thanks everyone for your suggestions. With the Super Joey connected via an Integrator, I'm not seeing how only 2 cables running into the house would work. Wouldn't there have to be 2 coax from the Solo node running into the house (1 going to a 3-way splitter), plus another coax from the dish to the Integrator inside the house? And if the Integrator was outside, then it would be a total of 4 coax entering the house. Am I missing something? I'm referencing the Dish Networks PDF drawing page 16 for 1 Hopper, 3-Joey, and 1 Super Joey.


The way I see of getting down to two cables is to place the node and integrator outside, connect them together directly (no splitter required) and run the Hopper feed and Super Joey feed inside as your two cables.

Once inside put a tap on the Hopper feed and then feed the Joeys off of the tap.








(This is what I suggested earlier in the thread.)


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## Zulu

DavidPJ said:


> Thanks Zulu. I posted my last post at the same time or just after you posted this post, so I didn't see your post. *So the additional 3 Joeys would connect from the Solo Node to a 3-Way splitter in the house. Correct?*


A 4-Way Splitter would be used.


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## HoTat2

Zulu said:


> A 4-Way Splitter would be used.


That is to say a three way splitter would be necessary if the solo node and integrator are both positioned on the outside as the diagram posted by James shows.

Or a 4-way splitter needed if the integrator is on the inside and the solo node outside as the illustration from Zulu shows.


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## DavidPJ

HoTat2, James, Zulu,

Wow! Thank you much for your help and designing the system for me. It's nice to know there are 2 solutions to the problem. I know you've put a lot of time into this so again thank you. I feel so much better prepared now for when a tech arrives for the installation.


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## James Long

And that is the fun part ... the tech will have their own ideas (and if employed by DISH, limitations on what they can do).

Best wishes!


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## DavidPJ

A Dish retailer installed our system last week and all went very well. When the tech came out I first explained the 2 coax requirement and I suggested installing the Solo Node outside and Integrator, Tap, and Splitter inside. He quickly agreed and proceeded. All of my existing coax worked fine and the installation went very smooth. He did not have a 4-way splitter so I have a 3-way for now. This means I'll have to move the cable on the splitter when I need to have the guest room enabled. That's OK for now, but I will replace the 3-way with a 4-way splitter eventually. The tech says Dish does not use 4-way splitters. The satellite dish had to be located in a different location than the Directv dish because of trees, but I'm happy with the new site.The tech did a nice job on the installation.

Thanks again for everyone's help. It really was a good feeling to be so well prepared for this install.


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## RBA

A 3 way splitter has 2 legs with 7dB loss and one with 3.5dB loss if a 2 way splitter 3.5 dB loss is connected to the 3.5 on the 3 way splitter it will work like a 4 way splitter with no more loss.


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## Stewart Vernon

Yeah... I wouldn't worry about getting a 4-way... just split one of those Joey lines with a 2-way and you should be fine for the other setup.


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## DavidPJ

What is the frequency range of the splitter for the Joeys? 15-2150 Mhz? Power passing?

Thanks.


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## James Long

DavidPJ said:


> What is the frequency range of the splitter for the Joeys? 15-2150 Mhz? Power passing?


That will work. MoCA on DISH is 650MHz to 875MHz.


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## harsh

DavidPJ said:


> What is the frequency range of the splitter for the Joeys? 15-2150 Mhz? Power passing?


Power passing isn't required unless the power inserter is downstream.

Any efficient splitter will work -- even an old-school 950MHz one.


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## DavidPJ

I picked up a 4-way satellite signal splitter at Walmart and it worked fine. I was a little concerned about signal strength from the splitter to the guest room (not attached to the house) but it works great.


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## James Long

There are limits and recommendations for total length of cable between the LNB and Hoppers and Hopper to each Joey and limits and recommendations for the number of devices inline and type of cable used between a Hopper and Joey to maintain signal quality. The system is not going to instantly fail if one violates those limits and recommendations. But if one does have problems and they have exceeded a limit or ignored a recommendation fixing the wiring problem would be a good place to start,


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