# Picture Quality with 625..Nothing Special



## msa6 (Dec 22, 2005)

I just connected the 625 to my new Panasonic EDTV (pwd8uk) and the picture isn't doing much for me. Should it be crisp, sharp, bright, or should it show digital artifacts, very weak blacks, and be unimpressive enough that I wish I were watching the game on my old Sony? What's the story?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

SD satelliite channels don't look very good on big screen sets. You can adjust you set somewhat to make them look a little better but they will never look as good as when you view them on a smaller set. Some of the better sets have adjustments for each input. If yours does, adust the input that your satellite receiver is connected to (and it should be connected to the s-video input) to see if you can improve how the picture looks.

A lot of the problem is the fault of the vendors (and DirecTV is just as bad as DISH when it comes to over compressing the channels). On my HDTV set the OTA (and cable) SD channels look much better than the satellite SD channels. Whenever we watch a network show almost all the time we watch the OTA (or cable, my STB has inputs for both) digital channels even if the program isn't in HD.

Until I got HD I never knew how bad SD was.


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## foojay (Feb 6, 2006)

Even on my 32" Standard Definition Toshiba the picture quality sucks, lots of pixelation.


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## StarTech (Oct 2, 2004)

There could be many reasons for the problems you are having.

Pixelation is most always an alinement problem with your dish or some type of blockage of the sat signal.

Older large screen (projection TV) just have never had the crisp quality. It's just the nature of the beast.

Plasma, and LCD have come the closest to capturing the pic-quality of a smaller set.

It is important to remember that 1% of a digital signal produces a great digital picture. So before we go bashing the satellite signal I would check with the retailer and have my settings confirmed and or corrected. 

Did view your new purchase on satellite and cable before bringing it home? The showroom TV's are set up for the best picture possible for that showroom by the tech who set them up at your home. Maybe some adjustments are in order.


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## msa6 (Dec 22, 2005)

Will I be better of with an HD box? Will SD programming look better on an HD box than it does on the 625? I know I'll get a better hookup to the plasma than I do with the 625 (s video). Of course, my set is EDTV, not HD.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

It would only help if you tuned HD channels, SD will look about the same. If your EDTV is widescreen its probably worth doing just for the aspect ratio.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

I must have good karma. I've got a 61" DLP and the PQ with my 942 is AOK. OTA and E*'s HD channels are the best, but there's nothing that wrong with their SD channels either. A little soft, but not that bad. 

John


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## bear paws (Jan 11, 2006)

JM Anthony said:


> I must have good karma. I've got a 61" DLP and the PQ with my 942 is AOK. OTA and E*'s HD channels are the best, but there's nothing that wrong with their SD channels either. A little soft, but not that bad.
> 
> John


May I borrow a cup of karma?

I have struggled for a decade with poor [READ sucky} SD sat and cable PQ. I've had 40" pany crt { still do}50'' Sam dlp, several 62" Mits and a 72" DLP.[ALL HD].I swapped the 72 back for a 62 1080P when VOOM [sigh] went dark. The VOOM[sigh] on the 72 was like EDTV on SD. HD was, well like fine crystal. THen came the dark ages of SD and no amount of superfragilistic calibrating and cableing would make it better. I live in eternal hope the 211/622 maybe someday MPEG $ will be better than the 811 and MPEG 2:lol:

I was floored one day playing around when I hooked up the S-vidio on a lark and it was better than DVI or COMP. in SD

I too watch OTA SD as much as poss for network . It is as good as ED on the 62 MITS. SAT SD gives me vertigo on any thing over 32". I only watch FNC, food and DIY on my 15" in the kitchen.

Bear!


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## fwampler (Dec 2, 2005)

msa6 said:


> I just connected the 625 to my new Panasonic EDTV (pwd8uk) and the picture isn't doing much for me. Should it be crisp, sharp, bright, or should it show digital artifacts, very weak blacks, and be unimpressive enough that I wish I were watching the game on my old Sony? What's the story?


I have a similar setup except my Panasonic EDTV is a couple of years old (commercial version). I don't remember the mode. Anyhow, mine has an absolutely beautiful picture. I use S-video out.


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## msa6 (Dec 22, 2005)

fwampler said:


> I have a similar setup except my Panasonic EDTV is a couple of years old (commercial version). I don't remember the mode. Anyhow, mine has an absolutely beautiful picture. I use S-video out.


Does that beautiful picture hold when you're watching locals? Does the picture quality rival what you're getting with DVDs? What settings are you using for the plasma? Thanks.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

You know - it's just possible that the TV has a "better upconverter" than the one built into your DBS receiver. If that is that case - on the non-HDTV channels - use the NTSC (analog) output, on the HDTV - use the HDTV outputs.

It comes down to using the output that provides the "real world" best picture - not the "theoretical" best picture.


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## msa6 (Dec 22, 2005)

scooper said:


> You know - it's just possible that the TV has a "better upconverter" than the one built into your DBS receiver. If that is that case - on the non-HDTV channels - use the NTSC (analog) output, on the HDTV - use the HDTV outputs.
> 
> It comes down to using the output that provides the "real world" best picture - not the "theoretical" best picture.


Forgive the ignorance...

What do you mean "use the analog output"? This set top from Dish doesn't have any digital outputs...the choices are composite or s-video.

Thanks.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

msa6 said:


> Will I be better off with an HD box? Will SD programming look better on an HD box than it does on the 625? I know I'll get a better hookup to the plasma than I do with the 625 (s video). Of course, my set is EDTV, not HD.


No, SD programming will still not look better. The truth is you can't make a poor picture look good. Both of the satellite vendors are compressing their SD channels way too much and no matter what our STBs and/or TVs can do, crap is still going to look like crap and what the vendors are putting out on their SD channels is truely crap. Until A LOT of people really start complaining to the vendors (or drop their service because of picture quality issues) that is what we are going to get.


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## msa6 (Dec 22, 2005)

Bill R said:


> No, SD programming will still not look better. The truth is you can't make a poor picture look good. Both of the satellite vendors are compressing their SD channels way too much and no matter what our STBs and/or TVs can do, crap is still going to look like crap and what the vendors are putting out on their SD channels is truely crap. Until A LOT of people really start complaining to the vendors (or drop their service because of picture quality issues) that is what we are going to get.


The SD picture is better on the old Sony we've had for years, better than the expensive new plasma. That's the way it is, huh?


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## fwampler (Dec 2, 2005)

msa6 said:


> Does that beautiful picture hold when you're watching locals? Does the picture quality rival what you're getting with DVDs? What settings are you using for the plasma? Thanks.


In general, local channels are not as good as the others. A couple are 95% there, a couple are 50% there, and the remainder are about 85% there.

With many channels, I think yes, the quality is as good as a progressive scan DVD. FOOD & HGTV have extremely good quality. So is ESPN. Actually, many are.

As far as adjustment of the TV, I spent a few months before I got it to my complete liking. It allows me to adjust gamma, black points and all sort of detailed setting. I have experience with Photoshop CS and RAW picture developing so I have a fair idea on how to get the best picture. That said, it's been a couple of years since I've done any adjusting so I don't remember all my tweeks. I do remember I'm using an "S-shape" gamma curve rather than a gamma =1. I tend not to use oversaturated colors as well. I use s-video input.

A good signal gets me fairly close to HD - not quite. The problem is that all HD signals are great (at least most are) whereas non HD signals are variable in quality depending on the station. Once a good selection of HD is available I'll probably take that service. A down-converted HD signal should be better than an up-converted non HD signal. I think, as well, someone on the forum as reported that. I will say tthat with my setup the picture is better with a non HD signal than my son-in-laws HD set is with non HD. Mine has the fairly expensive F??? (don't remember name) French chip for up converting whereas his doesn't. That is probably the reason. Anyhow, I am more than happy with mine.

BTW, switching from bothe digital & PCM audio outputs to just PCM outputs has cured my 625's problem of audio stuttering. During the 25 hours since making the change - not one hiccup. Now that's progress.


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## MDRNHL (Jan 9, 2006)

> With many channels, I think yes, the quality is as good as a progressive scan DVD. FOOD & HGTV have extremely good quality. So is ESPN. Actually, many are.


Wow, I really wish I could say the same. The Dish Network channels I watch, mainly SciFi & the NHL Center Ice channels, absolutely stink when compared to my old-ass Sony non-progressive DVD player. Some channels are decent, like History & HGTV...unfortunately, thats not the type of programming where quality is quite as important to me personally.

I tuned my Sony KDF-E42A10 using a combination of community accepted prefered settings based on general concensus at avsforums.com, and using the THX Optimizer....plus good old fashioned eyeballing. It looks great with DVD's, OTA HD, and my Xbox. 
I'm not sure if this is from the feed, or perhaps my 510 DVR recording, but playing back recorded programs such as CSI or Battlestar Galactica, during very dark scenes, I'll see some macroblocking. I almost never watch these programs live, so haven't been able to verify if the symptom exists there too.

This macroblocking is not present in dark scenes with DVD's, HD, or Xbox. Personally, I think the signal looks like it is way overcompressed.

edit: btw, my 510 is connected via S-video, had DVD connected by both composite at one time, and component, and Xbox is using the HD kit (component)


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## ShoalsRebel (Jan 3, 2006)

Why would one see a ghosting image on the local channels? My locals are pitiful. Also, my picture on my new Toshiba is much more grainy vs . my old RCA monitor. I have the unit set up on the RCA and the Toshiba TV2 because of the phone jack issue. Any suggestions?


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## bear paws (Jan 11, 2006)

ShoalsRebel said:


> Why would one see a ghosting image on the local channels? My locals are pitiful. Also, my picture on my new Toshiba is much more grainy vs . my old RCA monitor. I have the unit set up on the RCA and the Toshiba TV2 because of the phone jack issue. Any suggestions?


Ghosting With Digital Hmmm. I would start by taking every F connector apart and look for corrosion or tarnish.

Your Toshiba a lot bigger than the RCA? Like over 50"? Thats life in the slow E*SD lane. 
Cleaning the connectors may help here too esp. if some of the cables are old. 
Automotive BATTERY anti corrosion spray-on works good or get new F type connectors and a inexpensive coax stripper and cut back a few inches to get a clean [shiny]center conductor. If you have any barrel type unions, replace em.

Bear!


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

bear paws said:


> Ghosting With Digital Hmmm. I would start by taking every F connector apart and look for corrosion or tarnish.
> 
> Bear!


I can't believe that somone would make a suggestion like that. Did you not understand that this is a satellite delivered signal and not a local delivered signal?

The ghosting is happening because the source (an analog channel) is likely picked up by the vendor using an OTA antenna and the antenna is not aimed correctly. Both DISH and DirecTV still get some of their channels that way. Both companies have POPs (point of presence) in each area that they have locals and depend on vendors (usually Quest for DirecTV and Sprint for DISH) to pick up the signal (or receive it via fiber from the station), process it and then get it back to the vendor.

On way to get the problem fixed is to complain to the station that you are seeing the problem on. They have vendor contact numbers that they can call to get the problem resolved.


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## bear paws (Jan 11, 2006)

Easy up kid! If he is tuned to a digital sub channel, not only would he not get spurious sig but his digital tuner should reject it. 

Of course I made the leap and assumed he ment Dig OTA. But I guess you see it differantly.
Have a better day 

Bear!


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## RocketFoot (Feb 7, 2006)

I have noticed bad quality on my Pittsburgh Locals since the day I got my 625. My old 301 receiver was crystal clear...

I did talk to customer service and they said that they had too many channels on a transponder and thus causing poor picture quality. I really wish they would fix it. The pixelation and pulsating backgrounds are driving me crazy!


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## fwampler (Dec 2, 2005)

RocketFoot said:


> I have noticed bad quality on my Pittsburgh Locals since the day I got my 625. My old 301 receiver was crystal clear...
> 
> I did talk to customer service and they said that they had too many channels on a transponder and thus causing poor picture quality. I really wish they would fix it. The pixelation and pulsating backgrounds are driving me crazy!


You may have a bad switch. My old 301 was the pits for locals. When I upgraded to the 625 it wouldn't even connect because of the bad signal. The installer replaced the switch (outside wall) and I'm getting great local pitures. Before I had a lot of dropouts and pixelation.

So maybe you ended up with a bad switch?


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## RocketFoot (Feb 7, 2006)

fwampler said:


> You may have a bad switch. My old 301 was the pits for locals. When I upgraded to the 625 it wouldn't even connect because of the bad signal. The installer replaced the switch (outside wall) and I'm getting great local pitures. Before I had a lot of dropouts and pixelation.
> 
> So maybe you ended up with a bad switch?


Hmmm, could be possible. Is that something I can check myself or should I call my installer to come and check it?


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## foojay (Feb 6, 2006)

My locals (Atlanta) look horrible as well pixelated, pulsating backgrounds etc.


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## fwampler (Dec 2, 2005)

RocketFoot said:


> Hmmm, could be possible. Is that something I can check myself or should I call my installer to come and check it?


I went through dish with the dropouts and pixelation problem. They sent a repairman who didn't check the switch. Did basically nothing. The installer of the 625 was better. He said that switch was bad to fail. He just replaced it and all worked. I'm not even sure it can be checked directly. I'd call and have the repairman replace the switch and check that way. Good luck.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

bear paws said:


> May I borrow a cup of karma? . . .


After reading your post I'll send you two cups of good karma and a couple of Starbucks lattes! I could never get good PQ out of cable which is one of the reasons I left them in the dust. I spent $600 to get an OTA antenna installed by a true professional installer and in the process, he cleaned up some of my old satellite connections. I think that's one of the reasons I've got pretty solid reception. I'm watching the Olympics OTA right now and it's AWESOME!!

John


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