# Whale Wars Returning?



## Maruuk

Anybody know if Whale Wars is coming back this 2011 season? Seeing that Deadliest Catch thread reminded me. Great show, and I know they've got a hot new speedboat to replace that wrecked one. And added some cool new offensive weapons to boot. Go get'm Sea Shepherd!!!


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## Hoosier205

I hope not...unless it's new show about the crew of the Sea Shepherd spending time behind bars.


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## Maruuk

Hopefully this season they can take out a few dozen of those zombie monster whaler murderers along with their death ships! Tora tora tora suckers! Remember Midway? I thought you did. Save the whales, sink the enemy fleet!


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## Henry

Maruuk said:


> Anybody know if Whale Wars is coming back this 2011 season? Seeing that Deadliest Catch thread reminded me. Great show, and I know they've got a hot new speedboat to replace that wrecked one. And added some cool new offensive weapons to boot. Go get'm Sea Shepherd!!!


According to Animal Planet's web site, yes, it returns with Season 4 sometime during the summer. It'll be interesting to see how the crews react when they hear that the whalers have called it quits. Hope it's permanent and the show is cancelled. Don't misunderstand, I love the show, but if it comes to it or the whales' survival, I vote for the whales.


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## trh

"early June" is what a news release from Animal Planet says.

And the Sea Shepherd's bought a new Ady-Gil style boat for this season. Same design, but twice the length. *MV Gojira*


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## Maruuk

Awesome pursuit boat! On the early suspension of their whaling season:

_"No immediate official confirmation was available from Japan. But the factory ship, Nisshin Maru, was today steaming towards Drake Passage, below South America, pursued by the Sea Shepherd group's vessel Bob Barker, having left its nominated whaling grounds 2000 nautical miles behind."_

Sounds like more wild and crazy adventures ahead!


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## Hutchinshouse

I love this show! I'm ready!


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## Hoosier205

The nutjob vigilantes are lucky they didn't kill themselves or anyone else.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> The nutjob vigilantes are lucky they didn't kill themselves or anyone else.


They aren't the ones sinking other ships, that would be the whalers doing that.

If you don't like the show or what Sea Shepherd does why comment in the first place?


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## CCarncross

If that what it takes to stop whaling, I'm all for it....looks like they might finally be making headway due to public exposure and outcry.


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## trh

Hoosier205 said:


> The nutjob vigilantes are lucky they didn't kill themselves or anyone else.


Their deck seamanship certainly is lacking. They have been very fortunate that they haven't killed several crew members when launching their RHIBs.


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> Their deck seamanship certainly is lacking.


I'll give you that, but they aren't sailors and will freely admit that. They are volunteers out to support a cause by whatever means necessary.


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## trdrjeff

RunnerFL said:


> They aren't the ones sinking other ships, that would be the whalers doing that.
> 
> If you don't like the show or what Sea Shepherd does why comment in the first place?


lol, there are no brakes on boats...The sinking of the Ady Gil was a calculated PR stunt.


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## Hutchinshouse

trdrjeff said:


> lol, there are no brakes on boats...The sinking of the Ady Gil was a calculated PR stunt.


:lol:
Clearly you didn't see the episode.


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## photostudent

I don't know who the whalers thought they were fooling about their "scientific" expeditions but the show at least brought the truth forward. However the whale hunts pale in comparison with their government's prevarication in regards to the situation at the damaged nuclear plants.


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## Henry

photostudent said:


> I don't know who the whalers thought they were fooling about their "scientific" expeditions but the show at least brought the truth forward. *However the whale hunts pale in comparison with their government's prevarication in regards to the situation at the damaged nuclear plants*.


This show can be replaced with _Dolphin Wars._


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## VDP07

Video from 3 different vessels of the Ady-Gil collision.


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## sigma1914

VDP07 said:


> Video from 3 different vessels of the Ady-Gil collision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how to embed videos obviously.


[YOUTUBEHD]xLdUISE3e8c[/YOUTUBEHD]


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## VDP07

Thanks sigma.


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## RunnerFL

trdrjeff said:


> lol, there are no brakes on boats...


I'm well aware of that, but there are rudders that can be used to steer.



trdrjeff said:


> The sinking of the Ady Gil was a calculated PR stunt.


Hardly...


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## Maruuk

A stunt pulled by the Japanese. As was pointed out, it would have been an act of murder had anybody been below deck. The ship steered straight for the becalmed Ady Gil.


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## trdrjeff

You must have missed the part where the guy was ordered to let it sink...


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## trh

trdrjeff said:


> You must have missed the part where the guy was ordered to let it sink...


So you're maintaining that the PR "stunt" was letting it sink? And what other option did they have? Tow it 2000 miles back to port?

The Japanese whaler rammed a vessel that had stopped due to their fuel state. The Ady Gil was clearly not making any headway and by international law, the Japanese vessel was required to alter course so as to not hit the Ady Gil. Of course the Sea Shepherds have also ignored international laws when they come up along side the Japanese ships which at times has resulted in the two ships bouncing off each other.


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## Maruuk

They had to let the Ady sink, it had taken on too much water to tow and was a nav hazard to boot.

Either you believe the Japanese are violating international maritime agreements or you don't. I do, and further feel that even if they technically weren't, I'd be all for the Sea Shepherds protecting these incredible fellow sentient beings with their lives anyway. Sometimes it just comes down to the old-fashioned values of right, and wrong. Shame on the Japanese for this murderous scam for profits. "Research"....right. We should have withheld all tsunami help until they agreed to stop all whaling. Their society supports dolphin and whale slaughter. Time to make them "lose face" in the international community over that brutality and inhumanity.


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## RunnerFL

trdrjeff said:


> You must have missed the part where the guy was ordered to let it sink...


You clearly didn't watch the show. There was no order to let it sink. There was a decision made to let it sink. They decided to let it sink because after towing it for 24 hours behind another boat it was going under anyways.

It was not a publicity stunt and people were almost killed, by the Japanese Whalers.


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## Henry

Isn't it a maritime law that you are obligated to render assistance, whether you caused the incident or not? I'm not sure the Japanese crew even offered.


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## Maruuk

Of course it is. The Japanese scoff at all maritime laws and simply refuse to admit anything, and totally lie about all of the circumstances in their encounters with the Sea Shepherds. We all know that via direct knowledge from watching the show.


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## Henry

Maruuk said:


> Of course it is. The Japanese scoff at all maritime laws and simply refuse to admit anything, and totally lie about all of the circumstances in their encounters with the Sea Shepherds. *We all know that via direct knowledge from watching the show.*


I've watched all seasons so far, but I didn't archive any of them, so I couldn't remember if _Pete (Bethume)_ and the _Ady_ got an offer to assist from the Captain of the _Shonan Maru 2_.

It doesn't really matter. We all know what eventually happened to the Ady Gil. :nono2:


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## RunnerFL

Henry said:


> I've watched all seasons so far, but I didn't archive any of them, so I couldn't remember if _Pete (Bethume)_ and the _Ady_ got an offer to assist from the Captain of the _Shonan Maru 2_.
> 
> It doesn't really matter. We all know what eventually happened to the Ady Gil. :nono2:


If I remember right the Japanese did reluctantly offer help but not until after all the other whaling vessels arrived on scene.


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## trh

Yes, the Japanese did offer assistance after that ran into the Ady Gil and then hosed down the crew that were all sitting on the decks. 

Lets hope the Sea Shepherds learned a lesson from this incident and refuel their new boat whenever they get a chance. Letting a vessel run out of fuel in that area of the world is asking for trouble.


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## Henry

RunnerFL said:


> If I remember right the Japanese did reluctantly offer help but not until after all the other whaling vessels arrived on scene.


Thanks, Runner.


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## Henry

trh said:


> Yes, the Japanese did offer assistance after that ran into the Ady Gil and then hosed down the crew that were all sitting on the decks.
> 
> Lets hope the Sea Shepherds learned a lesson from this incident and refuel their new boat whenever they get a chance. Letting a vessel run out of fuel in that area of the world is asking for trouble.


If the "war" is indeed over, fuel won't be a problem going forward. :hurah:


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## Hoosier205

Japanese whaling operations are a separate issue. I have a problem with individuals and groups who take part in eco-terrorism methods without concern for injury or loss of life. You cannot condemn one, while condoning the other.


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## Hutchinshouse

Hoosier205 said:


> Japanese whaling operations are a separate issue. I have a problem with individuals and groups who take part in eco-terrorism methods without concern for injury or loss of life. You cannot condemn one, while condoning the other.


Hey, the eco-terrorist are only doing it for "tissue samples". :lol:










Long live Paul Watson!


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## Henry

Hoosier205 said:


> Japanese whaling operations are a separate issue. I have a problem with individuals and groups who take part in eco-terrorism methods without concern for injury or loss of life. You cannot condemn one, while condoning the *other*.


Right you are!

The operative word here is _awareness_. Is there another TV show that covers one of the "others"?

Before you dismiss the Japanese whaling operations as a "separate issue", maybe you should watch some of the slaughtering that _Whale Wars_ so helplessly depicts. That's awareness!


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## Maruuk

For the way they treat whales and dolphins, John Lennon might say the Nipponese are suffering from _Instant Karma_ right about now.


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## phrelin

Maruuk said:


> For the way they treat whales and dolphins, John Lennon might say the Nipponese are suffering from _Instant Karma_ right about now.


Be careful, you might lose your Aflac duck voiceover job.


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## RunnerFL

Maruuk said:


> For the way they treat whales and dolphins, John Lennon might say the Nipponese are suffering from _Instant Karma_ right about now.


I've read a few things here and there that hint to the fact that whaling is done for good because of the earthquake. The Nisshin Maru was re-purposed as a support/supply ship upon its return to port on 3/21. This is apparently for the foreseeable future.


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## Maruuk

Whales 1, Heartless Killers 0. Works for me!


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## trh

RunnerFL said:


> I've read a few things here and there that hint to the fact that whaling is done for good because of the earthquake. The Nisshin Maru was re-purposed as a support/supply ship upon its return to port on 3/21. This is apparently for the foreseeable future.


The Sea Shepherds also thought there wouldn't be another season. But last month the Japanese ministry overseeing whaling "research" asked that a Japanese Coast Guard cutter be sent with their fleet next season to protect their "research." There are some legal issues (war ships are not allowed in the treaty area) and funding restraints to this request, so the Coast Guard ship probably won't be sent.

But earlier this week at the International Whaling Commission's annual meeting, the Japanese made an official statement that the Japanese whaling fleet intends to return to the Southern Ocean this December.

Sea Shepherds have said they will be there with at least three ships (looking for a fourth) and there will be a fifth season to _Whale Wars_.


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## SayWhat?

Whether or not you agree with whaling, as far as I know it's a legal venture. So why wouldn't any vessel interfering with that be subject to being fired on or sunk as a pirate ship?

Even if they were in a questionable or disputed area, what gives a private vessel the legal right to interfere?


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## Hoosier205

"SayWhat?" said:


> Whether or not you agree with whaling, as far as I know it's a legal venture. So why wouldn't any vessel interfering with that be subject to being fired on or sunk as a pirate ship?
> 
> Even if they were in a questionable or disputed area, what gives a private vessel the legal right to interfere?


These jokers are more likely to sink themselves!


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> The Sea Shepherds also thought there wouldn't be another season. But last month the Japanese ministry overseeing whaling "research" asked that a Japanese Coast Guard cutter be sent with their fleet next season to protect their "research." There are some legal issues (war ships are not allowed in the treaty area) and funding restraints to this request, so the Coast Guard ship probably won't be sent.
> 
> But earlier this week at the International Whaling Commission's annual meeting, the Japanese made an official statement that the Japanese whaling fleet intends to return to the Southern Ocean this December.
> 
> Sea Shepherds have said they will be there with at least three ships (looking for a fourth) and there will be a fifth season to _Whale Wars_.


Yeah, the coast guard ship will be a definite no go for the whaling fleet. Although if they did it then other countries would actually jump in to enforce the laws.

Also if they try again what they did this year, sailing into Chile's waters, there may be an "International incident".

As a side note the Sea Shepherd ships have been repainted in the old WWI sea cammo motif. They look really cool too. Oh, and the Gojira is no longer the Gojira because of trademark issues. It is now the Bridget Bardot.


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## RunnerFL

SayWhat? said:


> Whether or not you agree with whaling, as far as I know it's a legal venture. So why wouldn't any vessel interfering with that be subject to being fired on or sunk as a pirate ship?
> 
> Even if they were in a questionable or disputed area, what gives a private vessel the legal right to interfere?


Whaling is not a legal venture at all. The reasons the Japanese get away with it is 1. They claim it's for research and 2. No country in the world is willing to enforce the laws because of the climate around Antarctica.

The "private vessel" is actually enforcing the laws that other countries can't be bothered to do. As long as they are not hurting anyone, and stay within the law, they are allowed to try to stop the whalers from breaking the law.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> These jokers are more likely to sink themselves!


They clearly are not naval personnel or well trained but at least they are doing what no one else is gutsy enough to do.


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## SayWhat?

> The "private vessel" is actually enforcing the laws that other countries can't be bothered to do.


On whose authority? The same that the Somalis use to collect 'fees' for passage anywhere near their coastline?


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## Hutchinshouse

RunnerFL said:


> They clearly are not naval personnel or well trained but at least they are doing what no one else is gutsy enough to do.


+1

You'd think by now the Japanese had enough (cough, cough) tissue samples. :lol:

Love this show!


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## SayWhat?

I'm sure the Japanese have a few WWII torpedoes laying around somewhere that would end the Sea Serpent's reign of maritime terror.


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## Hoosier205

"RunnerFL" said:


> They clearly are not naval personnel or well trained but at least they are doing what no one else is gutsy enough to do.


Putting human lives in danger to play reckless vigilante?


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## RunnerFL

SayWhat? said:


> On whose authority? The same that the Somalis use to collect 'fees' for passage anywhere near their coastline?


Clearly you're a hater...


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Putting human lives in danger to play reckless vigilante?


Their own lives. What does it hurt you? It doesn't...


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## Hutchinshouse

Hoosier205 said:


> Putting human lives in danger to play reckless vigilante?





RunnerFL said:


> Their own lives. What does it hurt you? It doesn't...


Yup, sometimes you have to take a risk in order to do the right thing. Just ask any fireman or police officer. Mankind is sh*tting all over this planet. I think it's rather cool to see a group give a damn.


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## Hoosier205

RunnerFL said:


> Their own lives. What does it hurt you? It doesn't...


The problem is that they are not risking just their own lives. They are also risking the lives of the Japanese crew and any emergency/military personnel that would have to respond to a situation THEY caused. It's reckless and irresponsible.


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## Hoosier205

Hutchinshouse said:


> Yup, sometimes you have to take a risk in order to do the right thing. Just ask any fireman or police officer. Mankind is sh*tting all over this planet. I think it's rather cool to see a group give a damn.


Oh please, let's not compare these goons to fire and police personnel. That's just offensive.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> The problem is that they are not risking just their own lives. They are also risking the lives of the Japanese crew and any emergency/military personnel that would have to respond to a situation THEY caused. It's reckless and irresponsible.


If you think they are risking the lives of the Japanese crew you clearly have never seen the show. If anything it's the Japanese threatening the lives of the Sea Shepherd volunteers when they run over their boats.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Oh please, let's not compare these goons to fire and police personnel. That's just offensive.


No, no comparison. The people trying to save an entire species are better.


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## SayWhat?

RunnerFL said:


> If you think they are risking the lives of the Japanese crew you clearly have never seen the show. If anything it's the Japanese threatening the lives of the Sea Shepherd volunteers when they run over their boats.


Well, if the Sea Snakes weren't there interfering...........


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## sigma1914

RunnerFL said:


> No, no comparison. The people trying to save an entire species are better.


I've read some crazy stuff on the internet, but this takes the cake. WOW! The firefighters and cops who ran into the World Trade Centers are true heroes unlike these wannabe vigilantes trying to play sea police.


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## Hoosier205

RunnerFL said:


> If you think they are risking the lives of the Japanese crew you clearly have never seen the show. If anything it's the Japanese threatening the lives of the Sea Shepherd volunteers when they run over their boats.


You mean when the vigilantes attempt to use their vessels as weapons and cross paths with Japanese ships. Those moronic goons are among the worst sailors on the open seas. When you intentionally position yourself to pass directly in front of a massive ship and you get runover...there is no one else you can blame for it. I have seen the show and I have watched where their own stupidity has left them stranded and their ships disabled.


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## Hoosier205

RunnerFL said:


> No, no comparison. The people trying to save an entire species are better.


Oh my. How completely disrespectful and disgusting. If you have any police officers or fire fighters in your family, please don't let them know just how little you think of them.


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## Hutchinshouse

Come on now people, it’s all about doing what’s right. It’s not about anyone’s title or profession. No need to spin things just to avoid the truth. People take risks when it’s the right thing to do. Should mankind continue down the current locust path we’re on? Commercial whaling was banned in 1986. Paul Watson and company are simply trying to enforce the ban. If Japan and others honored the ban, Paul Watson would be out of work. I wish we had more like Paul Watson on this planet.


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## Hoosier205

Hutchinshouse said:


> Paul Watson and company are simply trying to enforce the ban.


They have no authority to do so and only put lives at risk by doing something they are not mentally or mechanically capable of.


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## Maruuk

Wow, could you possibly BE more uninformed? The Japanese Ministry of Fisheries canceled their illegal whale slaughter indefinitely last Feb. specifically because of the brave and selfless efforts of the Sea Shepherds. It's over, whales 1...murdering Japanese scum 0.

"We're down here doing what we're doing taking every precaution, to ensure that nobody is injured. We've never injured anybody, but we're against an opposition that is literally trying to kill us if they could. If they attempt to come back...we will be here." -- Capt. Paul Watson

Sometimes heroes wear fireman's helmets in NYC. Sometimes they wear captain's hats. But they all risk their lives to save lives. And our hats should be off to them.


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## Hoosier205

Maruuk said:


> Wow, could you possibly BE more uninformed? The Japanese Ministry of Fisheries canceled their illegal whale slaughter indefinitely last Feb. specifically because of the brave and selfless efforts of the Sea Shepherds. It's over, whales 1...murdering Japanese scum 0.
> 
> "We're down here doing what we're doing taking every precaution, to ensure that nobody is injured. We've never injured anybody, but we're against an opposition that is literally trying to kill us if they could. If they attempt to come back...we will be here." -- Capt. Paul Watson
> 
> Sometimes heroes wear fireman's helmets in NYC. Sometimes they wear captain's hats. But they all risk their lives to save lives. And our hats should be off to them.


No, it is not over. You have not been keeping up to date. They aren't saving lives...they are risking lives. They Japanese are returning.


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## Hutchinshouse

Hoosier205 said:


> No, it is not over. You have not been keeping up to date. They aren't saving lives...they are risking lives. They Japanese are returning.


If we're keeping score at home, the Japanese fleet sank one of Paul Watson's ships and endangered the lives of all onboard. So as I see it, Paul Watson is saving lives, the Japanese fleet is risking lives. The proof is on video! If your agenda is to avoid endangerment, you're backing the wrong camp bud.


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## Hoosier205

Hutchinshouse said:
 

> If we're keeping score at home, the Japanese fleet sank one of Paul Watson's ships and endangered the lives of all onboard. So as I see it, Paul Watson is saving lives, the Japanese fleet is risking lives. The proof is on video! If your agenda is to avoid endangerment, you're backing the wrong camp bud.


Yes, the proof is on video. The vigilantes were the cause of that mishap and put their own lives at risk. Once again...proof that they are poor sailors. They should leave the enforcement of laws and regulations to those with enough mental power to avoid pulling int the path of a much larger ship.


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## SayWhat?

Hoosier205 said:


> They have no authority to do so and only put lives at risk by doing something they are not mentally or mechanically capable of.


Exactly.



Hutchinshouse said:


> the Japanese fleet sank one of Paul Watson's ships


Good. Sink the rest of the pirates.


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## SPACEMAKER

Anti-while/pro-whale slaughtering all over this thread. Typical.


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## Hoosier205

SPACEMAKER said:


> Anti-while/pro-whale slaughtering all over this thread. Typical.


I don't believe it is pro/anti whale slaughtering at all. I'm certainly not pro-slaughter. I am anti-vigilante though. The Sea Shepard goons only believe they are risking their own lives. They have no care or concern for anyone else who might be drawn into danger by their idiotic tactics. Not to mention the financial impact on any government and its citizens that would have to respond and assist anyone in harms way due to a situation THEY caused.


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## Maruuk

Let's see, it's cool to kill off the awesome endangered whales for profit while pretending to be doing "research". Right. It's the whales' fault for getting in the way of the harpoons.

And if a becalmed, tiny boat which has run out of fuel gets intentionally rammed by a mad, murderous sea captain of a giant ship...it's the tiny boat's fault for...what...getting in the way of the ramming ship's prow???

Man, how brutally twisted do you have to make the logic to start justifying murder and inhumanity? It's like saying "It was the fault of all those damned people who were overpopulating our concentration camps!"


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## SayWhat?

> And if a becalmed, tiny boat which has run out of fuel gets intentionally rammed by a mad, murderous sea captain of a giant ship...it's the tiny boat's fault for...what...getting in the way of the ramming ship's prow???


Basically, Yeah. If they weren't there, they wouldn't be having that problem. They'd be better off staying home than acting as Pirates on the high seas.


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## Maruuk

BTW, no Japanese on their giant ships have EVER been bodily threatened for one second by any actions of the Sea Shepherds. Anyone who suggests that is a liar.

Yet the Japanese have ALWAYS attempted to endanger the physical safety and lives of the Sea Shepherds through direct ramming, sophisticated sound cannons, water cannons, huge steel bolts shot at the SS crew, etc etc. The Japanese have no problem killing whales OR humans. It's all the same to them.


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## Maruuk

So you're openly justifying premeditated murder. You must have been _thrilled_ when Casey Anthony got off! Hope you don't live near me. Is there some neighborhood watch list of guys like you I can get, like the list of child molesters the government hands out? That would be very useful.


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## SayWhat?

Anybody else hear the Twilight Zone theme song?


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## Maruuk

Yes, I would definitely play the TZ theme for anybody in here who justifies premeditated murder. That is scary.

Suggesting it's ok to kill them just because "they're there". Wow, creepy. I imagine that's the same excuse Scott Roeder used as well. You're in good company.


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## Hutchinshouse

I like whales.


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## RunnerFL

SayWhat? said:


> Well, if the Sea Snakes weren't there interfering...........


Sea Shepherd, no need to be offensive.

And they are trying to save a species, not just interfering to interfere.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> You mean when the vigilantes attempt to use their vessels as weapons and cross paths with Japanese ships.


Again, you clearly haven't ever watched the show. Once you do then your opinion will be taken into consideration.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Yes, the proof is on video. The vigilantes were the cause of that mishap and put their own lives at risk.


No they were *NOT* the cause. Their ship ran out of fuel and was drifting. If you actually watch the video without your blinders on you can see the Japanese ship turn into them and sink them.


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## RunnerFL

SayWhat? said:


> Basically, Yeah. If they weren't there, they wouldn't be having that problem. They'd be better off staying home than acting as Pirates on the high seas.


Kinda like if you never posted in this thread, crapping all over it, we wouldn't be having this argument.

Go crap on someone else's thread.


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## Hoosier205

"RunnerFL" said:


> Sea Shepherd, no need to be offensive.
> 
> And they are trying to save a species, not just interfering to interfere.


No matter how many human lives they put at risk....

Call them what they actually are: Eco-terrorists


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## RunnerFL

Hutchinshouse said:


> I like whales.


So do I, and sharks too!


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> No matter how many human lives they put at risk....
> 
> Call them what they actually are: Eco-terrorists


Ok, then we'll call you what you "actually are": thread crapper.

Maybe you should look at your own Avatar and stop whining about someone actually having the guts to stick up to the Japanese bullies.


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## Hoosier205

"RunnerFL" said:


> Ok, then we'll call you what you "actually are": thread crapper.


Care to explain your disregard for police and fire fighters?


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## Hoosier205

"RunnerFL" said:


> Maybe you should look at your own Avatar and stop whining about someone actually having the guts to stick up to the Japanese bullies.


Who? The reckless vigilantes who operate without regard for human life? I haven't seen them do anything that would require any guts.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Care to explain your disregard for police and fire fighters?


I have no disregard for fire or police, you somehow came to that conclusion on your own.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Who? The reckless vigilantes who operate without regard for human life? I haven't seen them do anything that would require any guts.


Go crap on someone else's thread.


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## Hoosier205

RunnerFL said:


> I have no disregard for fire or police, you somehow came to that conclusion on your own.


Hmm...how did I ever come to that conclusion?



RunnerFL said:



> No, no comparison. The people trying to save an entire species are better.


Oh, that's right. Now I remember. You hold eco-terrorists in a higher regard than police officers and fire fighters.


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Oh, that's right. Now I remember. You hold eco-terrorists in a higher regard than police officers and fire fighters.


I never said I had any disregard for them, just not as high as someone out to actually risking their life to protect our entire planet.

Again, go crap on someone else's thread.


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## Hoosier205

RunnerFL said:


> I never said I had any disregard for them, just not as high as someone out to actually risking their life to protect our entire planet.


Our entire planet? Seriously? :lol:

We are talking about an organization that is responsible for millions of dollars (maybe tens of millions) worth of damage, numerous injuries, and countless events that put other lives at risk. An organization that is now doing this all in order to act as reckless vigilantes, having taken it upon themselves to enforce laws and regulations they have no authority to enforce, to protect a species which is not endangered. Let's be clear that we are not talking about protecting the last of their kind or anything close to it. These are just hippie pirates who would rather badly play ocean commando.

As you have now reiterated, you hold brave police officers and fire fighters in a lower regard than ECO-TERRORISTS. Wonderful...


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Our entire planet? Seriously? :lol:
> 
> We are talking about an organization that is responsible for millions of dollars (maybe tens of millions) worth of damage, numerous injuries, and countless events that put other lives at risk. An organization that is now doing this all in order to act as reckless vigilantes, having taken it upon themselves to enforce laws and regulations they have no authority to enforce, to protect a species which is not endangered. Let's be clear that we are not talking about protecting the last of their kind or anything close to it. These are just hippie pirates who would rather badly play ocean commando.
> 
> As you have now reiterated, you hold brave police officers and fire fighters in a lower regard than ECO-TERRORISTS. Wonderful...


Last time... go crap on someone else's thread. This thread is about airing of the tv show, not your opinion of what the people on that show do or your opinion of those of us who do like the show.


----------



## SayWhat?

> Last time...


Promise?


----------



## trh

SayWhat? said:


> Even if they were in a questionable or disputed area, what gives a private vessel the legal right to interfere?


*The United Nations. 
*
Specifically The United Nations World Charter for Nature, which starts off with


> (a) Every form of life is unique, warranting respect regardless of its worth to man, and, to accord other organisms such recognition, man must be guided by a moral code of action,
> 
> (b) Man can alter nature and exhaust natural resources by his action or its consequences and, therefore, must fully recognize the urgency of maintaining the stability and quality of nature and of conserving natural resources,


and then Section 24 that the Sea Shepherds use for their actions in the southern ocean (and other oceans of the world): 


> 24. Each person has a duty to act in accordance with the provisions of the present Charter, acting individually, in association with others or through participation in the political process, each person shall strive to ensure that the objectives and requirements of the present Charter are met.


*World Charter for Nature*

And we can debate this point, but they have used this as their defense in several different countries and have so far, won. (But I don't think this defense will "fly" in Japan).


----------



## Maruuk

+1 trh, good points!

Interesting that the same folks who have no regard for the lives of the whales are the same ones who have no regard for the lives of the human heroes attempting to rescue them. Basically a pro-killing stance across the board. One has to wonder...just how far do they carry that position in their daily lives in...let me guess...Arizona?


----------



## sigma1914

Maruuk said:


> +1 trh, good points!
> 
> Interesting that the same folks who have no regard for the lives of the whales are the same ones who have no regard for the lives of the human heroes attempting to rescue them. Basically a pro-killing stance across the board. One has to wonder...just how far do they carry that position in their daily lives in...let me guess...Arizona?


The same argument can be made for the guys against whaling...Are you all vegans and refuse to eat meat? How can you possibly eat meat of slaughtered animals? You basically have a anti-killing stance across the board, right?


----------



## RunnerFL

sigma1914 said:


> The same argument can be made for the guys against whaling...Are you all vegans and refuse to eat meat? How can you possibly eat meat of slaughtered animals? You basically have a anti-killing stance across the board, right?


No, and opinions differ on that. And I'm not a vegan by any means. You don't have to be a vegan to want to save an endangered species or keep the ocean ecosystem functioning.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

sigma1914 said:


> The same argument can be made for the guys against whaling...Are you all vegans and refuse to eat meat? How can you possibly eat meat of slaughtered animals? You basically have a anti-killing stance across the board, right?


I like you Sigma but that is weeeeeeaaaaaak.


----------



## sigma1914

RunnerFL said:


> No, and opinions differ on that. And I'm not a vegan by any means. You don't have to be a vegan to want to save an endangered species or keep the ocean ecosystem functioning.





SPACEMAKER said:


> I like you Sigma but that is weeeeeeaaaaaak.


I don't feel that way, but I was making a ridiculous jump as Maruuk was in his assumption.


----------



## trh

Maruuk said:


> Let's see, it's cool to kill off the awesome endangered whales for profit while pretending to be doing "research".


I don't believe any of these whales are endangered. However, there is a ban on commercial whaling which is what the Sea Shepherd's maintain the Japanese are doing.

As it says in the opening of Whale Wars, both sides believe they have the law on their side.

The IWC allows "research" and has a quota that can be killed. But if you read the British press, the Japanese routinely bribe many of the smaller countries that are IWC members for their votes (*Japan-gave-cash-girls-rig-whaling-vote-bid-end-24-year-ban.html*.

And a number of non-Sea Shepherd related scientist say that not only aren't the Japanese doing legitimate research, but that they could do research via non-lethal testing. *NY Times Open Letter To Japan*.


----------



## RunnerFL

trh said:


> I don't believe any of these whales are endangered.


The Humpback and Fin Whale are still on the endangered list and the Japanese hunt them both.


----------



## trh

RunnerFL said:


> The Humpback and Fin Whale are still on the endangered list and the Japanese hunt them both.


Do you have a source for the humpback whale? Wikipedia says it is "least concerned"


----------



## sigma1914

trh said:


> Do you have a source for the humpback whale? Wikipedia says it is "least concerned"


http://www.earthsendangered.com/list.asp#H

http://ecos.fws.gov/speciesProfile/profile/speciesProfile.action?spcode=A02Q


> Humpback whale (Megaptera novaeangliae)
> Kingdom: Animalia
> Class: Mammalia
> Order: Cetacea
> Family: Balaenopteridae
> Listing Status: Endangered


----------



## trh

Thanks.


----------



## RunnerFL

trh said:


> Do you have a source for the humpback whale? Wikipedia says it is "least concerned"


I got my list from Sea World but Sigma's lists are better.

http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info...mmalia/cetacea/endangered-whales-fs.htm#table


----------



## Maruuk

The IWC recently discovered:

_"Tests of 574 samples from Japanese restaurants showed that a high proportion of the whale meat being consumed came from a highly endangered subspecies of minke whales."_

The IWC has concluded that the Japanese claim of "research" is a fraud. It's simply large-scale commercial whaling under the ludicrous "research" banner. And the Japanese have always shown a reckless disregard for endangered animals. They've never responded to concerns from the world community at large. They just sneer at it.

As Capt. Paul says, "If they return, we'll be there."

The Sea Shepherds. Doing the US Navy's job for them, and doing it better on a beer budget.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Maruuk said:


> The IWC recently discovered:
> 
> _"Tests of 574 samples from Japanese restaurants showed that a high proportion of the whale meat being consumed came from a highly endangered subspecies of minke whales."_
> 
> The IWC has concluded that the Japanese claim of "research" is a fraud. It's simply large-scale commercial whaling under the ludicrous "research" banner. And the Japanese have always shown a reckless disregard for endangered animals. They've never responded to concerns from the world community at large. They just sneer at it.
> 
> As Capt. Paul says, "If they return, we'll be there."
> 
> The Sea Shepherds. Doing the US Navy's job for them, and doing it better on a beer budget.


Eating endangered species. :nono2: But, I guess it's OK as long as they're turning a profit. :lol: Yeah, I see no reason to intervene.


----------



## trh

Maruuk said:


> The Sea Shepherds. Doing the US Navy's job for them, and doing it better on a beer budget.


Not exactly a mission of the US Navy. Unless the civilian leadership in DC says so.

And the IWC is a joke. 
- Japan has been paying the membership fees (and other perks) for a number of countries for years. So it shouldn't be a surprise that those nations vote along with Japan. (Note: At the annual IWC meeting this past week, the IWC decided they would no longer take cash for payment; bank transfers only).
- If a member nation to the IWC officially objects to one of their regulations, they can just ignore it. 
- Each IWC member nation is allowed to do "research" on whales and that nation sets their own quotas. 
- The IWC member nation decides what to do with the dead whales after their research is done (e.g. selling the meat commercially).


----------



## Maruuk

It _should_ be a mission for the US Navy. Far better use of those ships than what they're using them for now.

My point was even the IWC has exposed the complete fraud of the Japanese whaling operation. Including proof that they're selling endangered whale meat in restaurants.

But maybe it will all come full circle. Whale meat is very high in mercury. Enjoy the poisoning, chumps. And what's that foul stench? Oh ya, Sea Shepherd butyl acid! Yum...


----------



## trh

The IWC may have exposed the Japanese, but yet they still allow them to continue whaling under their "research" clause of their regulations.

And that exposure was from an article in the Cleveland Plain Dealer in 2000 (Elizabeth Sullivan, _Weeping and Whaling_, PLAIN DEALER (CLEVELAND), July 2, 2000). Hasn't stopped them yet, has it?

The IWC is toothless.

But to send the US Navy? No way.


----------



## Maruuk

Au contraire, a bevy of Mark 110 57 mm. naval guns would send exactly the right message to the whaling scum. Far better use of the Navy than interfering in hopeless (and incredibly expensive) civil wars all over the world.


----------



## trh

Send Navy ships? Because war ships are banned in the southern ocean whale sanctuary. 

And as of this month, the IMO (international maritime organization) has also placed a ban on any ships over 400tons that don't have a double hull in this same area. 

The ban also includes ships using heavy oil.

Both of these should also keep the Nisshin Maru out of this area next season.


----------



## SayWhat?

> Au contraire, a bevy of Mark 110 57 mm. naval guns would send exactly the right message to the whaling scum.


You mean the interfering Sea Scum pirates, right?

And why would the USN care about whales when they are using certain sonar and ELF systems that harrass whales?


----------



## RunnerFL

SayWhat? said:


> You mean the interfering Sea Scum pirates, right?
> 
> And why would the USN care about whales when they are using certain sonar and ELF systems that harrass whales?


why can't you go crap on someone else's thread??


----------



## trdrjeff

And they still did not sink their own ship for pr, lol


----------



## Maruuk

Actually as we learned this week, the NZ Navy had a warship in those very waters looking for the "Beserk", until it got damaged from the storm.

And very telling: The Sea Shepherds devoted a ship and a chopper to finding any missing persons associated with the "Beserk", while the Japanese fleet in the same area refused to participate, even though they were compelled by maritime law to do so.

The Japanese just figure there's no profit in obeying maritime laws, or saving lives. Kill endangered whales, kill dolphins, kill humane activists. Kill kill kill. Tora tora tora. Same as it ever was.


----------



## trh

The Antarctic Treaty as amended by the Madrid Protocol in 1991 bans warships but allows them if they performing a SAR mission. 

And that ban on heavy-oil ships is going to stop quite a few cruise ships that go to the Antarctic; not all, just the larger ships. The smaller expedition-type ships will still be able to travel in the Antarctic.


----------



## trh

Maruuk said:


> And very telling: The Sea Shepherds devoted a ship and a chopper to finding any missing persons associated with the "Beserk", while the Japanese fleet in the same area refused to participate, even though they were compelled by maritime law to do so.


Who said the Japanese refused to participate? I missed that in the show. The Rescue Coordination Centre New Zealand (RCCNZ) published all the actions taken and who they contacted and who was "tasked" to provide assistance; the Japanese weren't listed.


----------



## Maruuk

Any and all ships in the area were obligated under maritime law to search.

The United States will crush the Japanese into sushi. Tomorrow. 11am PST.


----------



## Shades228

They're like the Jersey Shore group of environmentalists. It's great that Discovery is bringing some awareness for this issue but most of them remind me of spoiled children stomping their feet.


----------



## trh

Maruuk said:


> Any and all ships in the area were obligated under maritime law to search.


What makes you think they were in the area? The Sea Shepherds didn't know where they were. Steve Irwin had been using their Bell helicopter to search for them (extending their 20-mile surface radar range out over 100 miles). Still no whalers "in the area."

The Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is over 50 million square miles. To put that in perspective, the USA is only 3.5 million square miles (WorldAtlas.com).

Did the Japanese even know about the distress signal? The New Zealand authorities called the Steve Irwin, another ship in the area, and two land bases; no record that they talked with or "tasked" the Japanese.

The Steve Irwin had to steam 24 hours from their location to get to the search area. How much further away were the Japanese?

I don't like what the Japanese are doing, but I don't want to accuse them of something they didn't do.


----------



## Maruuk

Their refueling ship was right there, and we know from next week's previews that all the other ships are hovering around as well.

But argue all you want with yourself, are you seriously going to contend that the Japanese whalers would lift a finger to save anybody's life? After they've RAMMED becalmed ships with people on board???

Please. Let's get real here.


----------



## trh

Maruuk said:


> Their refueling ship was right there, and we know from next week's previews that all the other ships are hovering around as well.


You need to "get real" and understand this is a TV show. A heavily-edited TV show.

The Steve Irwin caught up with the Nisshin Maru on Jan 25, 2011 *Sea Shepherd Media Release*

The Berserk was reported missing Feb 23, 2011 *NZ Rescue Center Media Release*. (The search was halted on March 1st.)

So the two events happened almost a month apart -- and in reverse order than what is shown on TV.

EDIT: On Feb 18th, the Japanese Ministry of Fishing ended the whaling season and recalled their ships. So when the Berserk distressed signal was received, the Japanese ships were no where near the location to render assistance.

How many times has the Steve Irwin rammed a Japanese ship? Four times that we've seen (so far).

Had the Japanese refused to assist with the search of the Berserk, the New Zealand center would have filed a complaint with the International Maritime Organization and the Sea Shepherd's would have flooded the internet with their spin on this.

(You might be wondering how, if the Steve Irwin found the whalers on Jan 25th, they were looking for them again in Feb? That is a spoiler that I'm not going to post here).


----------



## SPACEMAKER

What I like about this show is that these people are going out in the world and doing something they believe in. They are out on the ocean engaging these whale killing scumbags risking their lives for something about which they are truly passionate.

For people who seemingly do nothing more than sit around logged on to a computer extolling the greatness of a satellite TV company to judge these people is just completely laughable.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

trh said:


> You need to "get real" and understand this is a TV show. A heavily-edited TV show.
> 
> The Steve Irwin caught up with the Nisshin Maru on Jan 25, 2011 *Sea Shepherd Media Release*
> 
> The Berserk was reported missing Feb 23, 2011 *NZ Rescue Center Media Release*. (The search was halted on March 1st.)
> 
> So the two events happened almost a month apart -- and in reverse order than what is shown on TV.
> 
> EDIT: On Feb 18th, the Japanese Ministry of Fishing ended the whaling season and recalled their ships. So when the Berserk distressed signal was received, the Japanese ships were no where near the location to render assistance.
> 
> How many times has the Steve Irwin rammed a Japanese ship? Four times that we've seen (so far).
> 
> Had the Japanese refused to assist with the search of the Berserk, the New Zealand center would have filed a complaint with the International Maritime Organization and the Sea Shepherd's would have flooded the internet with their spin on this.
> 
> (You might be wondering how, if the Steve Irwin found the whalers on Jan 25th, they were looking for them again in Feb? That is a spoiler that I'm not going to post here).


Time shifting is common on these types of shows. I don't think anyone should be surprised by this.


----------



## ffemtreed

I watched most of the episodes of that show and those sea Shepard people are just wrong. They are clearly the instigator in all of the violence. 

They are the ones shooting acid rockets at the Japanese ships, they are the ones violating the safe distance maritime laws. That video of the collision clearly shows prop wash from the little boat and ramming into the bigger boat. 

The sea shepard crews should be thankful I am not a Capt of one of those whaling boats because the second that started launching projectiles at me it would be open season self defense. 

The reason why none of the other countries want to enforce the law is because there is a loophole for research which the Japs are exploiting thus they aren't doing anything technically against the law. I might not like it, you might not like it but the law is the law until its changed. 

Since the terrorists don't agree with killing whales they think they have the right to force their will on the rest of the world. Until the laws are changed they have no business out there putting their own lives in jeopardy as well as other ships in the area. These seashepard people are no better off than PETA or any of the other whacked out enviro groups out there.

PS -- Minke whales aren't even endangered. Worst case is some of the sub stalks are threatened, but not endangered.

PSS -- Norway, Iceland, Greenland and a few other countries also hunt whales as well!! Its just not the Japs.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

If Japanese weren't whaling illegally there'd be no need for the Sea Shepherd fleet to be out there risking their lives to protect these intelligent, gentle and endangered beings from being brutally slaughtered in the most inhumane manner imaginable.


----------



## RunnerFL

ffemtreed said:


> I watched most of the episodes of that show and those sea Shepard people are just wrong. They are clearly the instigator in all of the violence.


No, they aren't instigating anything. The Japanese whalers are the instigators for hunting and killing whales.



ffemtreed said:


> They are the ones shooting acid rockets at the Japanese ships, they are the ones violating the safe distance maritime laws.


Hand thrown bottles of rotten butter are hardly "acid rockets".



ffemtreed said:


> That video of the collision clearly shows prop wash from the little boat and ramming into the bigger boat.


You need to watch the video again. The ship was out of fuel and the entire crew was out on top of it. It was not under power at all.

There are also other episodes that clearly show the Japanese harpoon vessels being agressive towards the Sea Shepherd. They change course and sail towards them at full speed, while Sea Shepherd tries to sail away, with water cannons on. And then they have the audacity to tell Sea Shepherd to back off when they are the agressor. Also the Japanese always try to hit the helicopter with their water cannons while the Sea Shepherds are trying to launch the helicopter.


----------



## Hoosier205

Do you support all Eco-terrorists or just these?


----------



## trh

RunnerFL said:


> No, they aren't instigating anything. The Japanese whalers are the instigators for hunting and killing whales.
> 
> Hand thrown bottles of rotten butter are hardly "acid rockets".
> 
> You need to watch the video again. The ship was out of fuel and the entire crew was out on top of it. It was not under power at all.
> 
> There are also other episodes that clearly show the Japanese harpoon vessels being agressive towards the Sea Shepherd. They change course and sail towards them at full speed, while Sea Shepherd tries to sail away, with water cannons on. And then they have the audacity to tell Sea Shepherd to back off when they are the agressor. Also the Japanese always try to hit the helicopter with their water cannons while the Sea Shepherds are trying to launch the helicopter.


I hate that I have to "defend" the Japanese in this forum. But according to the laws of the International Whaling Commission, the Japanese are allowed to do research and they get to set their own quotas -- even if the species is endangered. Too bad the IWC doesn't define what constitutes "research" and how many whales need to be taken (if any). It's a loophole that needs to be closed.

The bottles of buteric (sp?) acid are sometimes hand thrown; they have also used various other means of launching those bottles. If those are glass bottles and you're hit with one, you're going to be hurt.

Yes, the Ady Gil was adrift and after the incident the Capt of the Japanese whaler said he misjudged the distance. They did stop and offer assistance. But four times since this show has started we've seen the Steve Irwin intentionally hit one of the Japanese ships. Both sides are violating maritime laws.

The helicopter? 
1 - The Sea Shepherds said it was the intention of the Japanese to hose down their helicopter; they never did and we don't know whether that is what they planned to do. And 2, if they did, it would have been right out of Paul Watson's play book. From Seashepherd.org website (history tab):


> 1991. January: Off of Guatemala, the Sea Shepherd II discovers the Mexican tuna seiner Tungui with her nets in the water and dolphins struggling to escape. Despite the darkness of night, Captain Watson orders the Mexicans to release the dolphins. When they refuse, he rams and damages the Tungui and *turns a high-pressure hose on her onboard helicopter*.


So if the Japanese ever do hose down Steve Irwin's helicopter, they shouldn't go whining to the media that the Japanese don't play fair.

Let's just hope the the government of Japan doesn't fund next season's hunt.


----------



## RunnerFL

trh said:


> The bottles of buteric (sp?) acid are sometimes hand thrown; they have also used various other means of launching those bottles. If those are glass bottles and you're hit with one, you're going to be hurt.


They used a "spud gun" to launch them a year or so ago and got in trouble, fined I believe, for it and have not used the "spud gun" to launch the buteric acid since. They do use a slingshot type mechanism but it is hand operated so I would consider that hand thrown. They also do not aim for people, they aim for the decks of the ships.


----------



## Doug Brott

Just checking in .. Let's make sure we play nice in this thread. Thanks.


----------



## ffemtreed

RunnerFL said:


> No, they aren't instigating anything. The Japanese whalers are the instigators for hunting and killing whales.
> 
> Hand thrown bottles of rotten butter are hardly "acid rockets".
> 
> You need to watch the video again. The ship was out of fuel and the entire crew was out on top of it. It was not under power at all.
> 
> There are also other episodes that clearly show the Japanese harpoon vessels being agressive towards the Sea Shepherd. They change course and sail towards them at full speed, while Sea Shepherd tries to sail away, with water cannons on. And then they have the audacity to tell Sea Shepherd to back off when they are the agressor. Also the Japanese always try to hit the helicopter with their water cannons while the Sea Shepherds are trying to launch the helicopter.


I have seen the evidence on both sides of that collision and if you believe for a second that the ady gil was completly out of fuel and the entire crew was sitting on the ship, I got some oceanfront property in the Nevada dessert to sell you. The video's CLEARLY show the prop wash start up and propel the ady gil into the jap ship.

You need to remember that what you see on TV is only one sides version of how things happened. I am pretty sure since all the cameras are on the eco terrorists boats, the story is way slanted to their own side.

I will say it again, the eco terrorists are completly wrong here, the japs aren't violating any laws. What they are doing might not be moral or ethical to you and me, but the LAW is the LAW. The ecoterrorists should be spending their money trying to get the laws changed and not out there acting as vigilantes interpreting the law to support their own views.

Again if what the Japs are doing is illegal then other countries would be jumping on them, esp with as much publicity it has had over the past few years. Having no other countries step up says everything you need to know about whether they are breaking the law or not.

Any kind of bottle blasted from any source filled with an unknown substance is a hostile act. Just maneuvering your boat that close to a ship to throw those bottles is a hostile act. Just try doing that to a coast guard cutter and see what happens.

Lets not talk about the efforts to prop foul the jap boats to leave them unable to steer out in the harsh ocean. That is an immediate life threatening situation to everyone on that boat.

I am pretty sure i remember that helicopter trying to drop acid bombs onto that other ship as well.

Lets go back to that butyric acid thing, just because its rancid butter doesn't make it safe. Look at the MSDS sheet on it. Its flammable and Harmful if swallowed or inhaled. Corrosive. Extremely unpleasant smell may cause nausea. Liquid may burn skin and eyes. Readily absorbed through the skin. Severe skin, eye and respiratory irritant.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

"Doug Brott" said:


> Just checking in .. Let's make sure we play nice in this thread. Thanks.


I'm checking in too.... Please stay polite and on topic.


----------



## RunnerFL

ffemtreed said:


> I have seen the evidence on both sides of that collision and if you believe for a second that the ady gil was completly out of fuel and the entire crew was sitting on the ship, I got some oceanfront property in the Nevada dessert to sell you. The video's CLEARLY show the prop wash start up and propel the ady gil into the jap ship.


Not true... No prop wash at all.



ffemtreed said:


> You need to remember that what you see on TV is only one sides version of how things happened. I am pretty sure since all the cameras are on the eco terrorists boats, the story is way slanted to their own side.


Ahhh, but if you actually watched the show you'd know that we also saw video taken by the ship doing the ramming.



ffemtreed said:


> I will say it again, the eco terrorists are completly wrong here, the japs aren't violating any laws.


They are in violation of the moratorium on whale hunting.



ffemtreed said:


> I am pretty sure i remember that helicopter trying to drop acid bombs onto that other ship as well.


And you are wrong. The helicopter has only done recon and filming for the show. The helicopter has never dropped anything on any of the ships. The helicopter pilot will not allow that.


----------



## RunnerFL

Doug Brott said:


> Just checking in .. Let's make sure we play nice in this thread. Thanks.


Most of us are playing nice and debating the issue but there are one or two thread crappers here too.


----------



## ffemtreed

RunnerFL said:


> Ahhh, but if you actually watched the show you'd know that we also saw video taken by the ship doing the ramming.


That was the only 20 seconds in however many seasons that we saw of the other side.


----------



## trh

RunnerFL: That is correct; the helicopter has not been used other than to film or locate the Japanese whalers. No hostile acts from the helicopter.

But the ban on whaling in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is on commercial whaling -- hunting whales for "research" is allowed.

And yes, _Whale Wars_ did use film footage from the whaler when it hit the Ady Gil. The Ady Gil did look like there could have been some wake but if there was any, it was to only keep the heading of the boat into the seas. They were not maneuvering. But even IF they were slightly underway, then the Japanese were still at fault. The Japanese ship hit the Ady Gil on their port quarter -- by default, that makes the Japanese ship an overtaking ship which makes them "give way" vessel and are required to maneuver away from the Ady Gil (basically just like when driving a car and you rear-end someone. You're at fault).


----------



## trh

ffemtreed said:


> That was the only 20 seconds in however many seasons that we saw of the other side.


Animal Planet has requested each season to put a film crew on the Japanese ships to show their side. (and I think there was a couple other clips, but nothing substantial.)


----------



## ffemtreed

Go read the investigation report here

http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/AdyGil/

This document from the investigators of the collision pretty much debunk everything you said about the crash.

#1 the ady gil was out of fuel
#2 the entire crew was outside
#3 there was no prop wash (this is pretty important)


----------



## RunnerFL

ffemtreed said:


> That was the only 20 seconds in however many seasons that we saw of the other side.


Ok, so you can go to the Japanese whaler's website and see what they posted. It is there, I went there and saw it. No wash, everyone on deck, etc.. You can clearly tell, from both videos, that the whalers turned into the Ady Gil.


----------



## ffemtreed

RunnerFL said:


> Ok, so you can go to the Japanese whaler's website and see what they posted. It is there, I went there and saw it. No wash, everyone on deck, etc.. You can clearly tell, from both videos, that the whalers turned into the Ady Gil.


Sorry, those huge ships don't turn on a dime like that. From the angles of the video's you can't really tell for sure either of the boats movements. The only thing that is clear is that the ady gil was under power seconds before the collision with the jap ship and did lunge forward.


----------



## sigma1914

ffemtreed said:


> Go read the investigation report here
> 
> http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/AdyGil/
> 
> This document from the investigators of the collision pretty much debunk everything you said about the crash.
> 
> #1 the ady gil was out of fuel
> #2 the entire crew was outside
> #3 there was no prop wash (this is pretty important)


Interesting read.


----------



## RunnerFL

ffemtreed said:


> Go read the investigation report here
> 
> http://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/AdyGil/
> 
> This document from the investigators of the collision pretty much debunk everything you said about the crash.
> 
> #1 the ady gil was out of fuel
> #2 the entire crew was outside
> #3 there was no prop wash (this is pretty important)


I've read that page and the pdf document. Nowhere do they say the Ady Gil had fuel. Nowhere do they say who was or was not on deck and nowhere do they say whether there was prop wash or not.

One thing I would like to point out however is that the report states that the "crew and master" of the Ady Gil were on the Steve Irwin when it docked in Freemantle, AU. The report also says they got a statement from the "master" at that time. We know these are both lies because Pete Bethune, the "master" of the Ady Gil, boarded the whaler's ship and was taken back to Japan and arrested. If they lied this badly in one spot who's to say other parts aren't lies too?


----------



## RunnerFL

ffemtreed said:


> Sorry, those huge ships don't turn on a dime like that.


The whaler's ships do. They were made specifically for maneuverability and they boast about their maneuverability. If you actually watched the show you'd see they maneuver pretty well.



ffemtreed said:


> The only thing that is clear is that the ady gil was under power seconds before the collision with the jap ship and did lunge forward.


It is not clear at all.. If it were clear then I wouldn't be debating the fact.


----------



## ffemtreed

RunnerFL said:


> I've read that page and the pdf document. Nowhere do they say the Ady Gil had fuel. Nowhere do they say who was or was not on deck and nowhere do they say whether there was prop wash or not.
> 
> One thing I would like to point out however is that the report states that the "crew and master" of the Ady Gil were on the Steve Irwin when it docked in Freemantle, AU. The report also says they got a statement from the "master" at that time. We know these are both lies because Pete Bethune, the "master" of the Ady Gil, boarded the whaler's ship and was taken back to Japan and arrested. If they lied this badly in one spot who's to say other parts aren't lies too?


Read the whole document, it specifically tells you that the ady gil was LOW on fuel, and it also had witness statement from people in the boat looking out the PORT holes watching the jap boat getting closer and closer. You don't look through port holes when your sitting outside the boat.

The ady gil had 400 to 450 litres of fuel onboard!


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## RunnerFL

ffemtreed said:


> Read the whole document, it specifically tells you that the ady gil was LOW on fuel, and it also had witness statement from people in the boat looking out the PORT holes watching the jap boat getting closer and closer. You don't look through port holes when your sitting outside the boat.
> 
> The ady gil had 400 to 450 litres of fuel onboard!


Doesn't explain why the report lies about the "master" and where he was...


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## trh

Very interesting read and great find. But I'm shocked that the investigation found that BOTH were at fault.

The whaler because he didn't keep his distance as the overtaking vessel (which they defined as 1 mile distance) and the Ady Gil for failing to see they were too close and taking action to turn away from the whaler and increase speed. 

So we can debate all we want, but the authorities ruled they were both at fault.


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## trh

RunnerFL said:


> Doesn't explain why the report lies about the "master" and where he was...


I think this is another case of TV editing.

The accident happened on Jan 6th, 2010. Ady Gil's crew was recovered by the Bob Barker. The crew of Ady Gil is then transferred to the Steve Irwin (which has to refuel at least once during the season). The interviews happened on Jan 28th. They went back to sea and when Peter B. boarded the Japanese whaler, it on Feb 15th, 2010 -- six weeks after the accident and two weeks after the interviews.

I'm pretty sure the government of New Zealand wouldn't lie when they said they interviewed the master of the Ady Gil.


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## ffemtreed

RunnerFL said:


> Doesn't explain why the report lies about the "master" and where he was...


The report didn't lie, you just can't get past what you saw on an edited TV show where they captures weeks of filming in a couple 30 minute shows.

If you look at the actual dates you will see the timeline is 100% correct and actually lines up with the TV show.


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## RunnerFL

Interesting news....

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and...s-from-captain-paul-watson-save-our-ship-1263


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## SayWhat?

Iceland is getting into the act too.


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## sigma1914

RunnerFL said:


> Interesting news....
> 
> http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and...s-from-captain-paul-watson-save-our-ship-1263


Are all of the Sea Shepherd fans here going to donate?

They got what they deserved, IMO, since they're harassing bluefin tuna fishers. Those tuna are *not *endangered species. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/noaa-excludes-bluefin-tuna-endangered-species_n_868132.html and http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/science/earth/28tuna.html


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## Scott Kocourek

Animal planet must profit from the show maybe they should pony up some cash. 

Interesting how they are not doing anything illegal but they are always in trouble with the law.

m.


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## trh

sigma1914 said:


> Are all of the Sea Shepherd fans here going to donate?
> 
> They got what they deserved, IMO, since they're harassing bluefin tuna fishers. Those tuna are *not *endangered species. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/noaa-excludes-bluefin-tuna-endangered-species_n_868132.html and http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/science/earth/28tuna.html


From your huffingtonpost reference:



> The fish is under threat from a lack of enforcement of existing laws, especially in the Mediterranean,


 and NOAA says the bluefin is still a "species of concern". The lack of enforcement is why the SSCS got involved. The fisherman didn't have a quota, they were fishing outside of the season and they didn't have a mandated inspector onboard.


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## trh

Scott Kocourek said:


> Animal planet must profit from the show maybe they should pony up some cash.
> 
> Interesting how they are not doing anything illegal but they are always in trouble with the law.
> 
> m.


It is also interesting how every year the International Whaling Commission passes a resolution condemning Japan for killing whales in the Southern Ocean Whaling Sanctuary and requests that they stop whaling and then also passes another resolution praising them for the research they submitted from the previous season.


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## sigma1914

trh said:


> From your huffingtonpost reference:
> 
> and NOAA says the bluefin is still a "species of concern". The lack of enforcement is why the SSCS got involved. The fisherman didn't have a quota, they were fishing outside of the season and they didn't have a mandated inspector onboard.


Species of concern, while serious, is not endangered as the SS's plea for money claimed. Also, the plea letter specifically says, "we believe" in regards to the claims against the tuna fishers. Let's allow the courts to decide. Until then, they can't play pirates and sea cops.


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## Hutchinshouse

Scott Kocourek said:


> Animal planet must profit from the show maybe they should pony up some cash.
> 
> Interesting how they are not doing anything illegal but they are always in trouble with the law.
> 
> m.


Maybe Paul Watson should hold up a sign stating they're doing it for tissue samples.


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## sigma1914

I just don't get the justification for what they do. That'd be like someone going to a bar parking lot and doing ridiculous things to people trying to leave the parking lot because they think they're going to be drunk driving. Do bar patrons get to run over the people trying to stop them?


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## RunnerFL

sigma1914 said:


> Are all of the Sea Shepherd fans here going to donate?
> 
> They got what they deserved, IMO, since they're harassing bluefin tuna fishers. Those tuna are *not *endangered species. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/noaa-excludes-bluefin-tuna-endangered-species_n_868132.html and http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/28/science/earth/28tuna.html


I donated, yes. They weren't harassing the fishermen, they released the tuna from the lines, the fishermen weren't even around. And the tuna had been caught out of season.


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## trh

Their justification has been from the United Nations. Specifically The United Nations World Charter for Nature, which starts off with


> (a) Every form of life is unique, warranting respect regardless of its worth to man, and, to accord other organisms such recognition, man must be guided by a moral code of action,
> (b) Man can alter nature and exhaust natural resources by his action or its consequences and, therefore, must fully recognize the urgency of maintaining the stability and quality of nature and of conserving natural resources,


and then Section 24 that the Sea Shepherds use for their actions:


> 24. Each person has a duty to act in accordance with the provisions of the present Charter, acting individually, in association with others or through participation in the political process, each person shall strive to ensure that the objectives and requirements of the present Charter are met.
> World Charter for Nature


They have used this defense a number of times and have been successful. And even though I think the Japanese are killing more whales than they need, they are in compliance with the law. So I appreciate what SSCS is doing to stop them, but Paul Watson wouldn't want me on his jury.


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## RunnerFL

sigma1914 said:


> I just don't get the justification for what they do.


And you're not a fan so it's no surprise.



sigma1914 said:


> That'd be like someone going to a bar parking lot and doing ridiculous things to people trying to leave the parking lot because they think they're going to be drunk driving. Do bar patrons get to run over the people trying to stop them?


No, it would be like someone going to a bar parking lot and doing ridiculous things to people trying to leave the parking lot because they *KNOW* the people will be drunk driving and *know the cops won't do anything about it*. If you're going to slam them at least make it a fair comparison and not something jaded and one-sided.


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## trh

Interesting tidbit:

Whaling had stopped in Japan during WWII. The whaling ships had been converted to military duties, their crews were all in the military and their hunting grounds were in enemy-held territories. 

But the post-war administrator, General D. MacArthur, revived the practice of whaling to help feed the Japanese. He authorized the conversion of two tankers to whaling factory ships. The name of one of those ships? The Nisshin Maru. (Not the same one currently in use. The ship we see each week was built 23 years ago).


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## Hoosier205

"RunnerFL" said:


> And you're not a fan so it's no surprise.
> 
> No, it would be like someone going to a bar parking lot and doing ridiculous things to people trying to leave the parking lot because they KNOW the people will be drunk driving and know the cops won't do anything about it. If you're going to slam them at least make it a fair comparison and not something jaded and one-sided.


Do you justify the actions of other terrorists or just the sea hippies?


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## rcadss

Love this show. I always jump back and worth on who I am cheering for


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## RunnerFL

Hoosier205 said:


> Do you justify the actions of other terrorists or just the sea hippies?


Again, please stop thread crapping...


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## Hutchinshouse

Hoosier205 said:


> Do you justify the actions of other terrorists or just the sea hippies?


Don't you have HD channels to fabricate?  Since DIRECTV has 206 HD channels, how do you ever find the time to post in this thread? :lol:

Saving whales is a good thing no matter how you spin it. Just give it up dude.


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## SPACEMAKER

It's both funny and sad that people are gullible (or just flat out stupid) enough to think that Japan is deploying entire fleets of ships to conduct whale research. 

But I wonder how all that whale meat ends up in Japanese fish markets? Hmmmm


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## trh

SPACEMAKER said:


> But I wonder how all that whale meat ends up in Japanese fish markets? Hmmmm


All of the whale meat ends up in the markets. The IWC mandates it.


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## Hutchinshouse

SPACEMAKER said:


> It's both funny and sad that people are gullible (or just flat out stupid) enough to think that Japan is deploying entire fleets of ships to conduct whale research.
> 
> But I wonder how all that whale meat ends up in Japanese fish markets? Hmmmm


Yeah, a fleet of massive behemoth ships guzzling hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel everyday, all in the name of "research". :lol:

Let's just assume it's truly for research. Shouldn't they have plenty of tissue samples by now?


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## RunnerFL

Hutchinshouse said:


> Let's just assume it's truly for research. Shouldn't they have plenty of tissue samples by now?


After 20+ years, yeah I'd think so.


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## trh

This is from the Q&A page of Japan's whaling web site, *Japan's ICR*



> Q: Why do you need to kill so many whales for research? Why do you need so many samples?
> 
> A: In fact, the number of samples is small relative to the size of the populations being sampled. In the Antarctic, and North Pacific, the sample size of minke whales to be taken each year is the smallest number required to obtain statistically valid results. If we only sample only a few animals from a large population, the results have no meaning since they would not representative of the whole population. The sample size for the Bryde's and sperm whales to be taken in the North Pacific is smaller than is required for statistically significant results since the program for 2000 and 2001 is a feasibility study.
> 
> Determining the sample size is similar to carrying out public opinion surveys. Clearly, you can't sample the entire population to determine their attitude or opinion on some matter but you need to sample enough people so that the responses you get are representative of the entire population.
> 
> The research program in the Antarctic will be carried out over a period of 16 years. This period of time is required to examine trends in the changes of various population parameters. Sampling for only one or two years does not tell you what is going on in a dynamic system.


 and


> Q: Aren't Japan's whale research program simply commercial whaling in disguise?
> 
> A: The treaty (ICRW) requires that the by-products of the research be processed. The fact that the whale meat ends up on the market is a requirement of the treaty to ensure that resources are not wasted. It is not a "loophole" or "illegal" or "commercial whaling in disguise" as the anti-whaling rhetoric suggests. Income from the sale of by-products (meat) is used to partially offset the cost of the research.


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## SPACEMAKER

Only a moron would believe such garbage.


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## sigma1914

SPACEMAKER said:


> Only a moron would believe such garbage.


The Sea Shepherd is always 100% honest?


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## trh

No doubt about it, both sides put their own "spin" on the facts... or what they say are the facts.


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## sigma1914

trh said:


> No doubt about it, both sides put their own "spin" on the facts... or what they say are the facts.


That's the way I see it. I don't support either side in the "war."


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## trh

SPACEMAKER said:


> Only a moron would believe such garbage.


It doesn't matter what we believe. The IWC regulations allow the Japanese (and all member states to the IWC) to do research and it allows them to set all the parameters for that research.


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> It doesn't matter what we believe. The IWC regulations allow the Japanese (and all member states to the IWC) to do research and it allows them to set all the parameters for that research.


But they don't actually do research...


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## sigma1914

RunnerFL said:


> But they don't actually do research...


We don't know that. Some of the whale may be used for research.


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## trh

They are doing research. They have it all posted on their web site plus the IWC posts it AND the IWC passes resolutions each year commending them for their submissions.


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> They are doing research. They have it all posted on their web site plus the IWC posts it AND the IWC passes resolutions each year commending them for their submissions.


Whether or not the data is the result of real research has yet to be proven.


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## SayWhat?

Why aren't the Sea Serpents going after Iceland?


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## RunnerFL

SayWhat? said:


> Why aren't the Sea Serpents going after Iceland?


Please thread crap elsewhere.


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## trh

RunnerFL said:


> Whether or not the data is the result of real research has yet to be proven.


Nor does it have to be proven.

As much as I dislike what they are doing, they are in full compliance with the IWC regulations.


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## trh

SayWhat? said:


> Why aren't the Sea Serpents going after Iceland?


They have in the past. In 1986 two of Iceland's whaling ships were sunk while in port and SSCS claimed responsibility. In 1988 Paul Watson was detained in Iceland and questioned about this. There wasn't enough evidence to charge him so he was released and sent packing out of Iceland and then listed as persona non grata.

Why haven't they been back in recent years? No idea. Especially after the condemnation many countries (including the US) issued after Iceland started commercial whaling again.


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> Nor does it have to be proven.
> 
> As much as I dislike what they are doing, they are in full compliance with the IWC regulations.


In my opinion it does need to be proven. They won't allow any press on board, even Japanese press, to see how their "research" takes place. That, to me, screams the fact that they are not doing any type of research at all.


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## trh

But is up to the Government of Japan to determine what research is to be done and up to them to set quotas for their research. The 200 members of the IWC Scientific committee ("200 of the world's leading whale biologists" according to the IWC web site) thinks they are doing valid research.

It is the IWC that needs to be changed.



> The information and advice the Scientific Committee provides on the status of the whale stocks form the basis on which the Commission develops the regulations for the control of whaling. These are contained in the Schedule and require a three-quarters majority of the Commissioners voting. Any changes become effective 90 days later unless a member state has lodged an objection, in which case the new regulation is not binding on that country. This procedure may be used when a government considers its national interests or sovereignty are unduly affected.


Maybe with the change to their payment method the IWC just approved, it will stop Japan from controlling so many votes.


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## trh

Whale Wars Spin Off?

*Whale Wars Spin Off*

Assuming they can pay the bond to get the Steve Irwin released. One of the British newspapers reports that is SSCS doesn't pay the bond within 30 days, the ship could be sold.


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> Whale Wars Spin Off?
> 
> *Whale Wars Spin Off*


Sounds interesting. I'd love to see a show based on their efforts to stop shark finning.



trh said:


> Assuming they can pay the bond to get the Steve Irwin released. One of the British newspapers reports that is SSCS doesn't pay the bond within 30 days, the ship could be sold.


I don't see why Animal Planet can't loan them the 1.4 million and take it out of the profits from the show. Maybe Bob Barker will step up again and give more money. Sea Shepherd has quite the following among "Hollywood A-Listers" so I'm surprised the money hasn't been made by now.


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## trh

RunnerFL said:


> Sounds interesting. I'd love to see a show based on their efforts to stop shark finning.


Not interesting. It is sick what they do during "the grind". They use boats to herd the pilot whales into narrow coves where they force them to beach. Then people on land start clubbing and axing the whales to death. Several videos on youtube (search for "the grind Faeroe islands").

Ugly picture *Click Here*


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## RunnerFL

trh said:


> Not interesting. It is sick what they do during "the grind". They use boats to herd the pilot whales into narrow coves where they force them to beach. Then people on land start clubbing and axing the whales to death. Several videos on youtube (search for "the grind Faeroe islands").
> 
> Ugly picture *Click Here*


I didn't what they do at the Faeroe islands was interesting, come on, I meant the show sounds interesting. sheesh


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## RunnerFL

Sounds like good news to me:

http://www.globalanimal.org/2011/08/01/whale-wars-won-japanese-whaling-may-end-soon/47045/


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## Hutchinshouse

RunnerFL said:


> Sounds like good news to me:
> 
> http://www.globalanimal.org/2011/08/01/whale-wars-won-japanese-whaling-may-end-soon/47045/


+1

Right on!


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## RunnerFL

And more good news:

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and...p-vessel-the-steve-irwin-is-free-at-last-1272


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## SPACEMAKER

Thanks for the links, RunnerFL.


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## RunnerFL

SPACEMAKER said:


> Thanks for the links, RunnerFL.


You're welcome.


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## Maruuk

I love the smell of butyl acid in the morning!

It smells like...VICTORY!!!









Fear the beard!


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## Hutchinshouse

I bet that picture would make a good dartboard on the Nisshin Maru.


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## RunnerFL

Maruuk said:


> I love the smell of butyl acid in the morning!


Butyric Acid


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## RunnerFL

Hutchinshouse said:


> I bet that picture would make a good dartboard on the Nisshin Maru.


It probably already is. :lol:


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## trh

I wonder if they use darts or harpoons?


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## trh

Three episode on Friday night: pre-show showing highlights from past four seasons, Season Finale, post-show with interviews with five Sea Shepherds.


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## trh

trh said:


> Three episode on Friday night: pre-show showing highlights from past four seasons, Season Finale, post-show with interviews with five Sea Shepherds.


Wacky stuff last night. I most certainly was not up posting this at 3:48am.


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## trh

According to *Radio Australia News* (which is quoting the Yomiuri newspaper), the Japanese whalers are returning to the southern ocean in December. *Sea Shepherds* say they are ready to defend the whales. So it looks like there will be yet another season of Whale Wars.


----------

