# Why get Directivo when it comes out? This is why.



## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

Is Tivo still developing a "DirecTivo" for Directv? If so I could not figure out why and who would want one. The HR series DVRs are now just as good as if not better than Tivos in almost every regard. The HRs will soon have dual 90 minute buffers instead of 30 minute buffers from Tivo, the interface is faster, it has PIG etc. (Xomparison based on old HR10).

There is however one bug with the HR series DVR that still drives me nuts and I may dump it for Tivo because of it.

This is the "bug". I'm watching a Seinfeld rerun and I am about 15 minutes behind real time. The "about to record" message pops up. It says it needs to change the channel to record Loaded in five minutes. I select do not record (or skip record, whatever the option said). I continue watching Seinfeld. Five minutes later the DVR changes to comedy central which starts recording The Daily Show (per season pass). So why did it not record The Daily Show on the background tuner? I lost my Seinfeld buffer for no reason. Once I told it not to record Loaded it should have let me continue using the tuner I was on for live (or buffered live) viewing. I did rewind Seinfeld a few minutes prior to loosing the channel so it should have known I was watching that channel on that tuner. I don't recall Tivo making this mistake.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

I have experienced this occasionally, rare enough to be a minor annoyance for me. If I see it, I hit the record button immediately then you cannot lose your buffer.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Well if the TiVo has 4 tuners and a bigger HDD then yeah I will probably want one.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

There are 2 main reasons. First off the Tivo DB is amazing. Since that's what you're paying for really they do a great job with it and maintain it outside of the Tribune system so updates can happen faster. The second reason is the interface. People love the Tivo interface. DLB is up there but it's obviously not enough to carry TiVo or people would only get stand alone units.

So people will decide if they want one once the specifications and features are released.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Some other reasons are that the TIVO reliabily records what you ask it to record, and it has the suggestions feature. The TIVO is all around more fun and much less frustrating. The sooner TIVO is here, the better.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

My favorite thing about suggestions is turning it off, lol. To each his own, though.


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## lee78221 (Sep 25, 2007)

jal said:


> Some other reasons are that the TIVO reliabily records what you ask it to record,


I've never had my HR23 miss a show I wanted so I don't know what's wrong with yours.



nowandthen said:


> This is the "bug".


I don't think is. I might be wrong, but I think it's an act of the DirecTV DVR not being able to DLB.


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## redfiver (Nov 18, 2006)

I think, in the long run, if the DirecTivo has the ability to stream Netflix movies, that would be the deciding factor for me to move from the HR series to the DirecTivo boxes. To have it all in one box (not having to switch over to the xbox360) would be enough of an add on to move me back to tivo. And, I've always liked the tivo interface better than the HR series (but I am very used to the HR series format now, I still call all of the HR options that are Tivo like by the tivo name. Just used those names for so long, they have become a part of my vocabulary. And do people really say they are going to "DVR" a show, or do people say they'll "tivo" a show. I know I still use "tivo" even though I've been on the HR20 since the September they came out (3 years ago now? however long ago it was)


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

No DirecTV box will ever have Netflix on it... It directly competes with DirecTV's economic model and will only become more so as newer and newer movies come to the service.



redfiver said:


> I think, in the long run, if the DirecTivo has the ability to stream Netflix movies, that would be the deciding factor for me to move from the HR series to the DirecTivo boxes. To have it all in one box (not having to switch over to the xbox360) would be enough of an add on to move me back to tivo. And, I've always liked the tivo interface better than the HR series (but I am very used to the HR series format now, I still call all of the HR options that are Tivo like by the tivo name. Just used those names for so long, they have become a part of my vocabulary. And do people really say they are going to "DVR" a show, or do people say they'll "tivo" a show. I know I still use "tivo" even though I've been on the HR20 since the September they came out (3 years ago now? however long ago it was)


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I was always of the camp that the Tivo interface sucked....and don't get me started on the peanut remote....


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

redfiver said:


> I think, in the long run, if the DirecTivo has the ability to stream Netflix movies, that would be the deciding factor for me to move from the HR series to the DirecTivo boxes. To have it all in one box (not having to switch over to the xbox360) would be enough of an add on to move me back to tivo. And, I've always liked the tivo interface better than the HR series (but I am very used to the HR series format now, I still call all of the HR options that are Tivo like by the tivo name. Just used those names for so long, they have become a part of my vocabulary. And do people really say they are going to "DVR" a show, or do people say they'll "tivo" a show. I know I still use "tivo" even though I've been on the HR20 since the September they came out (3 years ago now? however long ago it was)


I doubt that the DirecTiVo will have the ability to stream Netflix... it's in direct competition with D*'s PPV Cinema Now. I dropped the premiere package when I got Netflix, and bought the Roku viewer so I could watch the netflix streaming stuff. Works like a charm, and my D* bill is a lot less expensive than it was with premiere, which I rarely used.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

To quote Jerry, "That's a shame." :lol: jk

I'm not excited about Tivo's return, really. I don't think it's any better for my needs than the HR20 I use.

I just want to see Tivo to come back to please the Tivo fans around the world & here. I'll admit, I'll be laughing a little if there are problems and threads start popping up like, "Directv's new Tivo is {insert defect or problem here}."


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## breevesdc (Aug 14, 2007)

I generally favor the D* DVRs over the Tivo units. I find the Tivo interface to be much more user friendly for the general public. But I prefer the D* interface (perhaps this has to do with my background in software).

One feature that would persuade me to go with the Tivo interface however is the ability to archive recordings to my laptop. I know that the stand alone Tivos can do this. Any chance that this will be "allowed" when the new HD Tivo for D* comes out?

Brian


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> There are 2 main reasons. First off the Tivo DB is amazing. Since that's what you're paying for really they do a great job with it and maintain it outside of the Tribune system so updates can happen faster.


Exactly how is adding a middle man (TiVo) going to make the updates happen faster? Right now the Tribune data is pretty much sent right into the HR2x as soon as they get it. Do you really think stations across the country send updates to bot Tribune and TiVo? As far as I know, there is only one clearinghouse for that information and it's Tribune. TiVo gets there data from the same place.

Besides, haven't the old DirecTiVos been using the DIRECTV Guide data for years now? :scratchin


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

When it's released, whichever allows me to keep a "Wishlist" full of about 100 or so searches without having to auto-record them will be what I use. Also be nice if it DIDN'T have PIG, or at least had a way to disable it. Even better would be a way to disable Live Tv altogether!


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

CCarncross said:


> I was always of the camp that the Tivo interface sucked....and don't get me started on the peanut remote....


+1

But for those who prefer it, I am glad it will be an option when it becomes available. I don't expect that I would get one, even if free.


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## sdk009 (Jan 19, 2007)

MartyS said:


> I doubt that the DirecTiVo will have the ability to stream Netflix... it's in direct competition with D*'s PPV Cinema Now. I dropped the premiere package when I got Netflix, and bought the Roku viewer so I could watch the netflix streaming stuff. Works like a charm, and my D* bill is a lot less expensive than it was with premiere, which I rarely used.


Do not forget that the PlayOn software is usable through any HR2X-XXX right now, and you can use it to stream Netflix videos.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

With all things being equal "if" the Tivo unit comes to fruition it's a DVR -- the HR2# is a DVR. To love or hate it based on the name on the box without factually knowing what options it will have is just silly. No doubt the software will be different, but if the thing has 4 tuners, unlimited series links, & OTA built in there are a LOT of people on this forum that would be interested in that. Of course some won't switch strictly because it's a Tivo. 

From my point of view it's only a DVR, and since it will probably cost some extra coin, I'll base my decision on the features when they're actually confirmed. My .02


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

carl6 said:


> +1
> 
> But for those who prefer it, I am glad it will be an option when it becomes available. I don't expect that I would get one, even if free.


If I could swap an HR20 for a Tivo unit at no cost I can't imagine that I wouldn't do so for all of mine. However, I'm confident this will not be the case. The question becomes how much MORE is the Tivo implementation worth than the DirecTV one... At this point I'm guessing not much.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dsw2112 said:


> No doubt the software will be different, but if the thing has 4 tuners, unlimited series links, & OTA built in there are a LOT of people on this forum that would be interested in that.


The software will be a TiVo variant, so you can likely guess the features that will be available from that. However, built-in OTA is very unlikely, 4-Tuners 99.9% sure that is a negative.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

I despised the original DirecTivo and it has forever soured me on Tivos in general. The idiot-proof, dated interface is not for me.


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## nn8l (Sep 7, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> The software will be a TiVo variant, so you can likely guess the features that will be available from that. However, built-in OTA is very unlikely, 4-Tuners 99.9% sure that is a negative.


Guess that means the partridge in a pear tree is out of the question too.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

nn8l said:


> Guess that means the partridge in a pear tree is out of the question too.


No, you can get that, but it will cost you extra


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

To me, not having to change my series links for the fall and summer tv seasons because of the 50 series link issue is worth some money. So is the Dual buffers. Would I pay $50 for these and the Tivo interface, probably. It all comes down to what it does v what it costs. 

One feature that I believe Series 3 has that HR doesn't is whole house viewing. Someone tell me that the D* whole house solution is coming out because they announced in the last 6 quarterly meetings. (I may have taken liberties with the number 6, but it is a feature very late to market).


After I wrote this I did also see a Briiiiiip thread. Just saying


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> One feature that I believe Series 3 has that HR doesn't is whole house viewing. Someone tell me that the D* whole house solution is coming out because they announced in the last 6 quarterly meetings. (I may have taken liberties with the number 6, but it is a feature very late to market).


Definitely some liberties with saying 6 quarters .. probably closer to 6-9 months which is 2-3 quarters. All have stated 2H2009 for non-DVR HD receivers. I see no reason why DIRECTV won't meet this schedule.



> After I wrote this I did also see a Briiiiiip thread. Just saying


This seems to be somewhere up the line, not at the STB .. TiVo will see it as well .. Just saying.


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

I got a Comcast HD DVR for a 30 day trial, had them put TiVo on it. After a week, I definitely miss it. 

Maybe I just like the sound effects :sure:

I like how the DIRECTV systems have the interactive feature on the sports channels, and the streaming (although problem prone) is pretty good. The multi-room viewing is also very cool, was able to forgo the 2nd DVR in the bedroom.

I do like the online scheduling that TiVo has under comcast. I'm hoping DIRECTV will offer this functionality on the HD DVR's soon (ability to actually manage your recordings, not just set a recording).


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Online scheduling has been available on the HR2x for a while. There is also an iPhone app for online scheduling for DirecTV as well.


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Online scheduling has been available on the HR2x for a while. There is also an iPhone app for online scheduling for DirecTV as well.


That is why I said

"I'm hoping DIRECTV will offer this functionality on the HD DVR's soon (ability to actually manage your recordings, not just set a recording)."


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

nowandthen said:


> Is Tivo still developing a "DirecTivo" for Directv? If so I could not figure out why and who would want one. The HR series DVRs are now just as good as if not better than Tivos in almost every regard. The HRs will soon have dual 90 minute buffers instead of 30 minute buffers from Tivo, the interface is faster, it has PIG etc. (Xomparison based on old HR10).
> 
> There is however one bug with the HR series DVR that still drives me nuts and I may dump it for Tivo because of it.
> 
> This is the "bug". I'm watching a Seinfeld rerun and I am about 15 minutes behind real time. The "about to record" message pops up. It says it needs to change the channel to record Loaded in five minutes. I select do not record (or skip record, whatever the option said). I continue watching Seinfeld. Five minutes later the DVR changes to comedy central which starts recording The Daily Show (per season pass). So why did it not record The Daily Show on the background tuner? I lost my Seinfeld buffer for no reason. Once I told it not to record Loaded it should have let me continue using the tuner I was on for live (or buffered live) viewing. I did rewind Seinfeld a few minutes prior to loosing the channel so it should have known I was watching that channel on that tuner. I don't recall Tivo making this mistake.


Your note about the bug seems to have been lost here.
I too experience this bug, and quite often on both of my HR20's.
It is VERY annoying

Having said that though, I still don't miss my DirecTivos.
I was very fond of the interface in fact, but not enough to miss them.


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## Maruuk (Dec 5, 2007)

D* hardware/software is pure junk. Can't wait for Tivo. Obviously, there's no sports fans in here. Don't miss slo-mo??? Are you kidding me? No video recording device in history has ever NOT had a dedicated slo-mo button--except for this D* toybox.

You hit a Tivo input button, and it responds, instantly. First time, every time. Tivo stuff works, D* doesn't. "Slowness in response and jumping to program end will be fixed by this latest rev!" Let's see now , that makes 14 revs that were gonna fix it. Lucy with the football strikes again.

I may buy a sledgehammer to publicly destroy my POS HR-21 and put in on YouTube when the D-Tivo comes out.


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## Tubaman-Z (Jul 31, 2007)

I still have 2 D*TiVos in service along with 2 HRxx-yyy DVRs - and I interact with both daily. I have adapted to the HR interface. It isn't better or worse, it is just different (although my wife still prefers the D*TiVo interface as "cleaner"). In general the HR is a fine box, but there are 2 things that I really like about my D*TiVos and 1 thing that I enjoyed but could live without (OK wiseguys - obviously I can "live" without any of this stuff.)

1. > 50 Series Link/Season Pass - Yes, I have been able to make do with the enhanced query language, but it was far simpler to just add and prioritize without AANDing some TTITLEs together. (I'm a programmer by education and earlier occupation, so I like to think it's not that I am confused by a simple query language)
2. Channels I Get/Channels I Receive - My HRs still record movies off Showtime channels that are not in my subscription. This never happens on the D*TiVos - and as far as I can tell D* has set aside efforts to fix this on the HRs.

The one thing I enjoyed and somewhat miss is the ability to change/modify/customize (hack if you will) the D*TiVos. Since I own them and they were beyond warranty I could do with them as I pleased. And as with everything else there are forums that would assist with the customizing. I assume that the as-yet-unseen new D*TiVos will use the same leasing model as the HRs - i.e. they will not be user customizable unless you are willing to violate the terms of the lease. Ah well.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I am not a Tivo Fan Boy but I am thinking I might get one when they come out, the only problem I see is there is one Big Plus and One big Minus with Tivo.

On the Plus side the technology in this unit will be a good 3 years newer than the HR20, so one can expect a faster system with better graphics etc.

On The Negative side the Technology is new so there will most likely be a year or so of Bugs to be worked out.

Best option might be to let the early adopters play with this thing for a year or so and then jump in and get one.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Definitely some liberties with saying 6 quarters .. probably closer to 6-9 months which is 2-3 quarters. All have stated 2H2009 for non-DVR HD receivers. I see no reason why DIRECTV won't meet this schedule.
> 
> This seems to be somewhere up the line, not at the STB .. TiVo will see it as well .. Just saying.


Doug,

DirecTV has been talking about a whole-home server for over five years. Go look at the annual reports for 2004, 2005 and 2006....it's in there. I guess sooner or later it may happen, but I would think any reasonable person would question their credibility on this issue. When it comes to vaporware, DirecTV is certainly a veteran.

I'll help a bit

Here's a statement from the 2006 Annual Report:
• Introduce Whole-House and Portable Services. We believe that it is important for our
subscribers to have multiple ways to access DIRECTV programming throughout the home
and on devices other than the TV. In 2007, we expect to introduce a service that allows
subscribers with the DIRECTV Plus HD-DVR to access applications such as pictures and
music from their personal computer that is equipped with the Intel Viiv software. Also in
2007, we expect to rollout small portable devices, such as DIRECTV Sat-Go and handheld
devices, that will enable remote viewing of DIRECTV's programming and services. We also
expect to introduce a home media center in 2008 that will provide HD and standard-
definition DVR functionality throughout the home and allow customers to access stored
content, including video, photos and music, seamlessly from any connected television set in a
household.

Here it was in 2005's Annual Report

Introduce a Whole-House Entertainment Solution. Within the next year, DIRECTV U.S.
expects to introduce the DIRECTV home media center. This whole-house entertainment
solution will allow DIRECTV subscribers to access content, including digitally-recorded
video, digital photos and digital music, seamlessly from all television sets in a household.
The DIRECTV home media center will also provide DVR functionality throughout the
home and support HD and standard-definition video signals. In addition, DIRECTV U.S.
announced an agreement with Intel Corporation, or Intel, to enable remote viewing of
DIRECTV's entertainment services and programming to PC screens, laptops, portable
media players and televisions through Intel Viiv technology later in 2006. DIRECTV
U.S. and Microsoft Corporation, or Microsoft, announced an agreement to develop new
opportunities to expand the reach of digital music, television and movies throughout the
home and to portable devices. Under the agreement, DIRECTV will work with Microsoft to
enable the flow of digital content between Windows PCs, DIRECTV's set-top receivers,
PlaysForSure devices and the Xbox 360, allowing subscribers to experience DIRECTV
programming and digital content stored on their Windows PCs in a variety of new ways.

This appeared in the 2004 Annual Report:

Perhaps the most exciting development will be the year-end launch of 
the DIRECTV Home Media Center to provide whole-house connectivity 
with all multimedia systems, along with mobility for devices outside the 
home. Content in a variety of forms - digitally recorded video, photos 
and music - will be accessible from every networked TV in the house. 
Through a broadband connection, the DIRECTV Home Media Center 
will support personal computer connectivity, scheduling of DVR 
recordings from the Internet, photos from wireless phones, 
video-on-demand and many other features.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Ken S said:


> Doug,
> 
> DirecTV has been talking about a whole-home server for over three years. Go look at the annual reports for 2005 and 2006....it's in there.


fair 'nuff


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Maruuk said:


> I may buy a sledgehammer to publicly destroy my POS HR-21 and put in on YouTube when the D-Tivo comes out.


Check your lease schedule .. It may cost you a few bucks to do that.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Tubaman-Z said:


> The one thing I enjoyed and somewhat miss is the ability to change/modify/customize (hack if you will) the D*TiVos. Since I own them and they were beyond warranty I could do with them as I pleased. And as with everything else there are forums that would assist with the customizing. I assume that the as-yet-unseen new D*TiVos will use the same leasing model as the HRs - i.e. they will not be user customizable unless you are willing to violate the terms of the lease. Ah well.


I also suspect the TiVo will be locked down a bit more than in the past ..


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

I just wanted to respond to the new TiVo or any other receiver for that matter having Netflix streaming built in post. I really doubt this would ever get built into a DirecTV receiver. Why would they allow an unlimited movie streaming service (with a Netflix account of course) on their receiver. DirecTV wants users to purchase movies from them this would totally screw them over.

I have had a Netflix account since 07 I have hardly ever used the online streaming service. I just don't have a good enough internet connection to download VOD or do constant streaming of movies. I think Ive watched maybe two movies so far :lol:


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

From what I hear, there will be no new Directv/Tivo.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> From what I hear, there will be no new Directv/Tivo.


Where did you hear this? Everything here has said otherwise. This site is fairly accurate.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

One of the things that I liked about my DirecTiVo was that I could easily swap out one 40GB hard drive and put in two 160GB hard drives. Even though I didn't get the full capacity due to a kernel limitation, I expanded it from 35 hours to ~240 hours. Can you imagine how much from TCM I would have stored if I had TB drives. However, isn't the response timer slowing down simply because of the large hard drives? 

I don't watch live TV anymore, so the dual-live buffers aren't of importance. But, having two tuners is a must.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

nowandthen said:


> Is Tivo still developing a "DirecTivo" for Directv? If so I could not figure out why and who would want one. The HR series DVRs are now just as good as if not better than Tivos in almost every regard. The HRs will soon have dual 90 minute buffers instead of 30 minute buffers from Tivo, the interface is faster, it has PIG etc. (Xomparison based on old HR10).
> 
> There is however one bug with the HR series DVR that still drives me nuts and I may dump it for Tivo because of it.
> 
> This is the "bug". I'm watching a Seinfeld rerun and I am about 15 minutes behind real time. The "about to record" message pops up. It says it needs to change the channel to record Loaded in five minutes. I select do not record (or skip record, whatever the option said). I continue watching Seinfeld. Five minutes later the DVR changes to comedy central which starts recording The Daily Show (per season pass). So why did it not record The Daily Show on the background tuner? I lost my Seinfeld buffer for no reason. Once I told it not to record Loaded it should have let me continue using the tuner I was on for live (or buffered live) viewing. I did rewind Seinfeld a few minutes prior to loosing the channel so it should have known I was watching that channel on that tuner. I don't recall Tivo making this mistake.


No offense, but this is one of the more obscure HR defects versus TiVo. Hou about non-functional CIG and therefore no autorecords? How about the really sloooooow response (except for the HR20). How about the missed recordings? How about the slow-mo or jitters after trick play? Or the super-crop bug? I'm not even including things like the flaky Media Share, since I don't know if the new TiVo will have that.

Frankly, while the HR series has improved vastly, the only thing that will keep me on the HR's after the TiVo is re-introduced is the money.


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## Movieman (May 9, 2009)

I never had the Tivo boxes but I do love all the features of my HR23. But if they can get me a receiver that has more than 2 tuners I'm in.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

This whole talk of four tuners - is it the same as it is now (and was with the HR10-250s) that there are two satellite tuners and two OTA tuners? Or is the plan that a new HD TiVo would not have OTA capability? I've had four tuners for years with HR10-250s and HR20s. Are they talking about four always active, independent tuners?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> This whole talk of four tuners - is it the same as it is now (and was with the HR10-250s) that there are two satellite tuners and two OTA tuners? Or is the plan that a new HD TiVo would not have OTA capability? I've had four tuners for years with HR10-250s and HR20s. Are they talking about four always active, independent tuners?


where does it say 4 tuners anywhere?


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Maruuk said:


> D* hardware/software is pure junk. Can't wait for Tivo. Obviously, there's no sports fans in here. Don't miss slo-mo??? Are you kidding me? No video recording device in history has ever NOT had a dedicated slo-mo button--except for this D* toybox.
> 
> You hit a Tivo input button, and it responds, instantly. First time, every time. Tivo stuff works, D* doesn't. "Slowness in response and jumping to program end will be fixed by this latest rev!" Let's see now , that makes 14 revs that were gonna fix it. Lucy with the football strikes again.
> 
> I may buy a sledgehammer to publicly destroy my POS HR-21 and put in on YouTube when the D-Tivo comes out.


You do realize that more then likely it will be software from Tivo laid down on HR2X hardware...

would watch that on youtube, would also enjoy reading the screams of anguish when Directv hits you for the replacement costs of the hardware, that is unless you own a HR21-PRO, and besides would be funny to see someone destroy a couple of hundred dollars of hardware intentionally.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

It was absolute POS 2 years ago but, today it's not all that bad. It still has some bugs like slowness and Briips but certainly not enough bugs to label it a POS. 
If you have the level of problems thats I think your having I suggest you get it properly serviced because something must be wrong with your setup.



Maruuk said:


> D* hardware/software is pure junk. Can't wait for Tivo.
> 
> -snip-
> 
> I may buy a sledgehammer to publicly destroy my POS HR-21 and put in on YouTube when the D-Tivo comes out.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> Where did you hear this? Everything here has said otherwise. This site is fairly accurate.


Let's just say it is a well informed source. Sorry, that's all I can offer.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> where does it say 4 tuners anywhere?


I think the four tuners was used as an illustration that if the box was far superior the original poster of the 4 tuner thing would jump. Otherwise not. I agreed in principal, but my threshold for the jump, I think, will be much lower. Thanks to Ken S for looking up the whole house thing, I was too lazy. Thanks to Doug for setting me straight on the Briiiiip. I haven't followed that thread


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

oldfantom said:


> I think the four tuners was used as an illustration that if the box was far superior the original poster of the 4 tuner thing would jump. Otherwise not. I agreed in principal, but my threshold for the jump, I think, will be much lower. Thanks to Ken S for looking up the whole house thing, I was too lazy. Thanks to Doug for setting me straight on the Briiiiip. I haven't followed that thread


Yup, the 4 tuner thing was strictly an example of what it might take some to make the leap to tivo. I think everyone has a wishlist of features they'd like to see in a DVR, and the tivo is just another DVR. It's almost a political issue regarding those who love/hate the thing. It's just interesting to me that it's not out, the features haven't been released, and people are already saying I'll never switch. Apart from a tivo logo and different software if the thing has features you want AND they're worth the price you're willing to pay why take such a hard-line now?


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## andunn27 (Sep 24, 2007)

I will be dropping my HR receiver as soon as these become available. I honestly don't care if I have to pay more.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

MartyS said:


> when I got Netflix, and bought the Roku viewer so I could watch the netflix streaming stuff.


Roku is pretty sweet. A hundred bucks and you get Netflix, Amazon and now optional MLB.tv and more to come. That does the same streaming stuff that Tivo does for the most part (most of the rest of Tivo streaming is junk with the possible exception of YouTube, which will probably on Roku soon).

BTW, I have an HD Tivo and Roku and HR DVRs. The Tivo is my least favorite box now (and I was a big Tivo fanboy back in the day). The HD box is jerky, slow as dirt and no where near as reliable as the old DirecTivos. I think they have put too much into them as the searches are extremely slow and often need internet connection and the HD stream overpowers it.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> where does it say 4 tuners anywhere?


That just came from reading this thread piece-meal over the several days it existed and recalling it mentioned a few times. I didn't take the time to go back and re-read or I would have seen it was a hypothetical.

It seemed like an unrealistic expectation to me and didn't know where it was coming from.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

joshjr said:


> Well if the TiVo has 4 tuners and a bigger HDD then yeah I will probably want one.


bigger hdd (500 gb in to days boxes is real good vs cable) I would just want user upgradeable hdd and / or e-sata as add a disk / archive disk.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> The software will be a TiVo variant, so you can likely guess the features that will be available from that. However, built-in OTA is very unlikely, 4-Tuners 99.9% sure that is a negative.


foxtel and sky ZN have 4 tuner boxes


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

andunn27 said:


> I will be dropping my HR receiver as soon as these become available. I honestly don't care if I have to pay more.


I am thinking about getting one and dropping the HD only box replacing it the HD dvr I have now.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

TigersFanJJ said:


> My favorite thing about suggestions is turning it off, lol. To each his own, though.


I never did like suggestions.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

davring said:


> I have experienced this occasionally, rare enough to be a minor annoyance for me. If I see it, I hit the record button immediately then you cannot lose your buffer.


Really? I didn't know that. I thought once that tuner changed channels the buffer gets dumped. If not I will try that next time.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

redfiver said:


> I think, in the long run, if the DirecTivo has the ability to stream Netflix movies, that would be the deciding factor for me to move from the HR series to the DirecTivo boxes. To have it all in one box (not having to switch over to the xbox360) would be enough of an add on to move me back to tivo. And, I've always liked the tivo interface better than the HR series (but I am very used to the HR series format now, I still call all of the HR options that are Tivo like by the tivo name. Just used those names for so long, they have become a part of my vocabulary. *And do people really say they are going to "DVR" a show, or do people say they'll "tivo" a show.* I know I still use "tivo" even though I've been on the HR20 since the September they came out (3 years ago now? however long ago it was)


I make a point to say record or my DVR, not Tivo. When I had a Tivo it used to bug me that people that did not have a Tivo still referred to it as a Tivo, or I tivoed it last night, etc. I will not be one of those people. However I still say Kleenex instead of tissue.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

CCarncross said:


> I was always of the camp that the Tivo interface sucked....and don't get me started on the peanut remote....


I love the peanut remote. I think it is the best remote I have ever experienced. I can find my way around in the dark. I'm pretty good with the HR remote but the Tivo remote is better IMO.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

kturcotte said:


> When it's released, whichever allows me to keep a "Wishlist" full of about 100 or so searches without having to auto-record them will be what I use. Also be nice if it DIDN'T have PIG, or at least had a way to disable it. Even better would be a way to disable Live Tv altogether!


At first I hated PIG,. I was afraid of accidentially spoiling sporting events. i have learned to live with it and in most case I like being able to see the program while I navigate the menus. Don't get me started on the S-L-O-W Tivo menus. :lol:

I would like an option to disable PIG though. For now I just hold my hand out in front of me to hide the PIG. :lol:


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

nowandthen said:


> I love the peanut remote. I think it is the best remote I have ever experienced. I can find my way around in the dark. I'm pretty good with the HR remote but the Tivo remote is better IMO.


+1


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

raoul5788 said:


> Let's just say it is a well informed source. Sorry, that's all I can offer.


Ummm..OK


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## Eagle Shadow (Nov 7, 2007)

The only TIVO feature that I truly miss is the ability to switch tuners. I found that feature useful. The delete recovery feature is nice as well. I agree the luster is off Tivo for now. D units seem solid at last. The search function could be improved. I would like for wireless to be built into D units with a secondary ethernet port for daisy chaining Blu-Ray and a receiver to the internet.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

Maruuk said:


> D* hardware/software is pure junk. Can't wait for Tivo. Obviously, there's no sports fans in here. Don't miss slo-mo??? Are you kidding me? No video recording device in history has ever NOT had a dedicated slo-mo button--except for this D* toybox.
> 
> You hit a Tivo input button, and it responds, instantly. First time, every time. Tivo stuff works, D* doesn't. "Slowness in response and jumping to program end will be fixed by this latest rev!" Let's see now , that makes 14 revs that were gonna fix it. Lucy with the football strikes again.
> 
> I may buy a sledgehammer to publicly destroy my POS HR-21 and put in on YouTube when the D-Tivo comes out.


I forgot about slo-mo. Hr20's are terrible at that. I have to repeatedly hit the step button to advance one frame at a time. With Tivo if you hold down the button it would continue to step. Thank you for reminding me! This feature is worth the additional cost, if any to get the Tivo box. I loved doing my own frame by frame analysis for football plays. Gave up on that with the HR series boxes because they totally $UCK at that. Go Niners!


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

ATARI said:


> Ummm..OK


I understand your reaction and would agree with it if I was in your position.


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## JonSamuels (Jun 26, 2007)

The biggest advantage TiVo has for me is the ability to have more than 50 series links/season passes. They really should address this on the HRs.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> I understand your reaction and would agree with it if I was in your position.


So Directv has all of the sudden canceled the Tivo? What about the link on their site to receive more info? All a hoax? :lol:


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

nowandthen said:


> I forgot about slo-mo. Hr20's are terrible at that.


That's not an issue with the HR2x as much as it is with MPEG4 compression. Comparing to MPEG2 is unrealistic, given the vast differences in the way the two work. MPEG4 is much more efficient in large part because it looks many more frames before and after the current frame for redundant data to discard, but that also means that each frame doesn't contain all of the data for that frame. That's not a problem when watching normal speed, but any "trickplay" functions aren't going to be smooth like MPEG2 was.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

lee78221 said:


> I've never had my HR23 miss a show I wanted so I don't know what's wrong with yours.


Sorry, but this is utter trolling. Just because yours has never had an isue, you are willing to flat out ignore hundreds of threads here that say otherwise?


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

nowandthen said:


> I forgot about slo-mo. Hr20's are terrible at that. I have to repeatedly hit the step button to advance one frame at a time. With Tivo if you hold down the button it would continue to step. Thank you for reminding me! This feature is worth the additional cost, if any to get the Tivo box. I loved doing my own frame by frame analysis for football plays. Gave up on that with the HR series boxes because they totally $UCK at that. Go Niners!


There actually is slow-mo built into the D* DVRs its just kinda tricky to use. You just need to press and hold the play button for a few seconds. I use RF on my R22 at my house so I've never had a problem using it. I noticed at my friends house with his R22 using IR that it doesn't work so well. His DVR is really low to the floor and in a bad spot to aim the remote his table is in the way. In order get his remote to work you have to hold your arm way up high. It really doesn't work good for long button hold commands.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> From what I hear, there will be no new Directv/Tivo.





sigma1914 said:


> Where did you hear this? Everything here has said otherwise. This site is fairly accurate.





raoul5788 said:


> Let's just say it is a well informed source. Sorry, that's all I can offer.


Let's just say .. Your well informed source is not as well informed as you think they are. Sure, TiVo may punt on the idea, but from every indication that I've heard .. things are still moving forward.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> foxtel and sky ZN have 4 tuner boxes


OK .. We're talking about DIRECTV here.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I do think it will be interesting to see what TiVo rolls out for DIRECTV, and compare it to the state of the HR2x series at that point. To compare an HR10, circa 2006, to an HR23 as it is now is not fair to either party.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

nowandthen said:


> I make a point to say record or my DVR, not Tivo. When I had a Tivo it used to bug me that people that did not have a Tivo still referred to it as a Tivo, or I tivoed it last night, etc. I will not be one of those people. However I still say Kleenex instead of tissue.


Actually, in our house we really have stopped saying "Tivo'd" and now use the term "DVR'd" .. Wasn't intentional, just happened.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Lee L said:


> Sorry, but this is utter trolling. Just because yours has never had an isue, you are willing to flat out ignore hundreds of threads here that say otherwise?


:scratchin hundreds of threads over how long a time? There seem to be a couple of overriding issues at the moment and yes, there are a lot of posts about those issues, but at the same time there are others that are quite happy with their setup. Nothing wrong with both sides of the story. :shrug:


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

raoul5788 said:


> Let's just say it is a well informed source. Sorry, that's all I can offer.


I'm in Raoul's corner on this one. I hope it changes though.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Let's just say .. Your well informed source is not as well informed as you think they are. Sure, TiVo may punt on the idea, but from every indication that I've heard .. things are still moving forward.


Perhaps, time will tell.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> So Directv has all of the sudden canceled the Tivo? What about the link on their site to receive more info? All a hoax? :lol:


I looked on Directv.com and didn't see the link you refer to. Can you post it?


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## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

The only thing that my TiVO box had that I miss is the ability to retreive deleted shows. Everyone occassionally will delete a show then think, oops. I am hoping that D* will get that into its software soon. The deleted shows are still on the drive, you just need the software to be able to see them and be set up to overwrite the oldest in order as space is needed.


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## bjamin82 (Sep 4, 2007)

raoul5788 said:


> I looked on Directv.com and didn't see the link you refer to. Can you post it?


https://www3.tivo.com/dvr-products/tivo-partners/tivo-directv/index.html


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## mluntz (Jul 13, 2006)

No Netflix or Amazon on Demand= no Tivo for me. My wife loved our old Tivo. I'd much rather pay $4.99 for a 24 hour rental, duh!

I'll look into a Roku box instead!


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> I looked on Directv.com and didn't see the link you refer to. Can you post it?





bjamin82 said:


> https://www3.tivo.com/dvr-products/tivo-partners/tivo-directv/index.html


Ahh, it was the Tivo site. Thanks bjamin82.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

bjamin82 said:


> https://www3.tivo.com/dvr-products/tivo-partners/tivo-directv/index.html


That's not on Directv.com, it's on Tivo.com. I'm guessing that it will not be there for much longer.
You are faster than I am, sigma1914!


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

nowandthen said:


> I love the peanut remote. I think it is the best remote I have ever experienced. I can find my way around in the dark.


Agree 100% it would be the absolute perfect remote if powered by Harmony software.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

nowandthen said:


> At first I hated PIG,. I was afraid of accidentially spoiling sporting events. i have learned to live with it and in most case I like being able to see the program while I navigate the menus. Don't get me started on the S-L-O-W Tivo menus. :lol:
> 
> I would like an option to disable PIG though. For now I just hold my hand out in front of me to hide the PIG. :lol:


Totally agree on the PIG, I never had an issue with slow Tivo menus (except reordering season passes)


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

raoul5788 said:


> Let's just say it is a well informed source. Sorry, that's all I can offer.


If it's true it would not surprise me in the least considering the numbnut decisions that have been going on at DirecTV lately.:nono2:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> If it's true it would not surprise me in the least considering the numbnut decisions that have been going on at DirecTV lately.:nono2:


I wouldn't be shocked if true, but of the little I am hearing .. It's still moving forward. I have no reason to believe otherwise.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, I don't know what to tell you. I hear a lot of the stuff Doug hears, and from a lot of the same people, and it sure seems like there's going to be a TiVo product.


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## Deezul (Oct 10, 2006)

I want another DirecTivo for one reason - Close Captioning stays on during FF1. So handy for catching up on shows when I've got a bunch queued up, as well as skipping through what I call "CSI moments" when they do their "science" and I want to know when they start talking again.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Exactly how is adding a middle man (TiVo) going to make the updates happen faster? Right now the Tribune data is pretty much sent right into the HR2x as soon as they get it. Do you really think stations across the country send updates to bot Tribune and TiVo? As far as I know, there is only one clearinghouse for that information and it's Tribune. TiVo gets there data from the same place.
> 
> Besides, haven't the old DirecTiVos been using the DIRECTV Guide data for years now? :scratchin


I'm talking about their database that setups what shows record based on identifiers. If tribune changes a number a DirecTV DVR won't record it until a new season pass is setup. Tivo's do their own assigning per show so if Tribune changes something it doesn't impact them. Also the search and wishlist capabilities are better because TiVo maintains their own DB so they can search by whatever field they choose.

I remember in the past that TiVo would correct a guide if something was announced mid week that came up. An emergency address or something like that. Maybe they don't anymore and just let Tribune handle all that or maybe I'm wrong and remembering something that wasn't.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> I'm talking about their database that setups what shows record based on identifiers. If tribune changes a number a DirecTV DVR won't record it until a new season pass is setup. Tivo's do their own assigning per show so if Tribune changes something it doesn't impact them. Also the search and wishlist capabilities are better because TiVo maintains their own DB so they can search by whatever field they choose.
> 
> I remember in the past that TiVo would correct a guide if something was announced mid week that came up. An emergency address or something like that. Maybe they don't anymore and just let Tribune handle all that or maybe I'm wrong and remembering something that wasn't.


Sounds more like you are saying that TiVo does it better (which is fine), I just wasn't getting the "faster" part.

I know I've seen programs update via DIRECTV (and Tribune) less than 15 minutes before a show was due to start. It'd be tough to match that just-in-time processing.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Sounds more like you are saying that TiVo does it better (which is fine), I just wasn't getting the "faster" part.
> 
> I know I've seen programs update via DIRECTV (and Tribune) less than 15 minutes before a show was due to start. It'd be tough to match that just-in-time processing.


That is correct I would never suggest they are faster in doing things, but I do think their DB is better. Too bad they could never steal the market from Tribune in that aspect.

I'm still on the fence if I'll get one or not. The only thing I really miss from my TiVo is the advanced guide rather then the standard guide. So everything else is either been done or I didn't think it's a big deal to me.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> OK .. We're talking about DIRECTV here.


Some one was asking for a 4 tuner d* box and they are out there so may we can get on in 2010.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Some one was asking for a 4 tuner d* box and they are out there so may we can get on in 2010.


I understand the hope .. Don't look for it to happen, though.


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## Tubaman-Z (Jul 31, 2007)

For those talking about the Roku, Netflix, YouTube, etc, make sure you read post http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2187835&postcount=17. I use PlayOn with my HR20-100 and except for the thin DSL pipe that I am on (rural area) things work fine.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Lee L said:


> Sorry, but this is utter trolling. Just because yours has never had an isue, you are willing to flat out ignore hundreds of threads here that say otherwise?


Hunderds of threads with how many individual posters?

Remember, this is the internet, 95 percent of what don;t hear are the people that have no issues, all you hear on the internet are the vocal 5 percent with a issue.

Have less issues with the HR2x box's then I have had with the Hr10 boxes over the same time period. As far as duplicate or missing recordings, have no idea if it is because of the hardware/software or just crap guide data coming from the 3rd party provider. Then TV is not that important to me


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## lee78221 (Sep 25, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> :scratchin hundreds of threads over how long a time? There seem to be a couple of overriding issues at the moment and yes, there are a lot of posts about those issues, but at the same time there are others that are quite happy with their setup. Nothing wrong with both sides of the story. :shrug:





wingrider01 said:


> Hunderds of threads with how many individual posters?
> 
> Remember, this is the internet, 95 percent of what don;t hear are the people that have no issues, all you hear on the internet are the vocal 5 percent with a issue.
> 
> Have less issues with the HR2x box's then I have had with the Hr10 boxes over the same time period. As far as duplicate or missing recordings, have no idea if it is because of the hardware/software or just crap guide data coming from the 3rd party provider. Then TV is not that important to me


+1



Lee L said:


> Sorry, but this is utter trolling. Just because yours has never had an isue, you are willing to flat out ignore hundreds of threads here that say otherwise?


I've use my HR23 everyday and it works just as well as my Tivos(I have cable and DirecTV in my house), so I don't know why yours is acting up. I don't know why you're taking so offence to that(I'm sorry mine is working and not acting up on me).

And as Doug Brott said "Nothing wrong with both sides of the story. :shrug:"


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I think the HR2x is maxed out. Yes they will get multi room viewing soon, but never an HD Guide. CPU cant take it.

Just look at the HR21-100 with AM21 over the air turner. Very slow. Slow with National release and CE. Tivo will be on newer hardware and will not have slowness issues.

Faster and with HD guides gives many reasons to go with the new HD Tivo from DirecTV. I predict it will be out in time for xmass sales as really it is just a supped up lasted HR24 not out yet with the TIvo GUI on it. If they could add 2 SAT and 2 OTA tuners like the Dish 722k+OTA, that would be a plus.

Just my prediction. . .


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

scottchez said:


> I think the HR2x is maxed out. Yes they will get multi room viewing soon, but never an HD Guide. CPU cant take it.
> 
> Just look at the HR21-100 with AM21 over the air turner. Very slow. Slow with National release and CE. Tivo will be on newer hardware and will not have slowness issues.
> 
> ...


Um, why on earth do you think the HR's can't run a HD GUide? The CPU should not have any issues handling it.

It renders a SD guide now in hd format and sends it to tv's, up to and including at 1080p, so not sure why you think they can't give it higher res graphics and text, and NOT have to scale something...


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

scottchez said:


> I think the HR2x is maxed out. Yes they will get multi room viewing soon, but never an HD Guide. CPU cant take it.
> 
> Just look at the HR21-100 with AM21 over the air turner. Very slow. Slow with National release and CE. Tivo will be on newer hardware and will not have slowness issues.
> 
> ...


How is it you believe the CPU cannot handle a HD GUI when the CPU can render mpeg 2/4 HD fine? Considering I haven't seen one single post about CPU processing levels I don't think that's accurate in any way.

I also haven't seen 1 post where TiVo has confirmed they are producing their own box. I think it's possible they were thinking about it and scrapped that idea which is where people are hearing that the project has been terminated. Nothing is known about how it will be rolled out. We can speculate but in the end nothing will be known until it is ready to be shipped in whatever format is chosen.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

lee78221 said:


> +1
> 
> I've use my HR23 everyday and it works just as well as my Tivos(I have cable and DirecTV in my house), so I don't know why yours is acting up. I don't know why you're taking so offence to that(I'm sorry mine is working and not acting up on me).
> 
> And as Doug Brott said "Nothing wrong with both sides of the story. :shrug:"


I see no problem with "both sides of the story" (which BTW is a phrase usually used in a perjorative manner, suggesting that there is no factual basis to back up accusations). However, it is a fact that these boxes do miss shows. Actually, I have not had a missed show for a few months, but there has been a consistent number of threads and posts over several years and a wide variety of posters who have issues.

When someone posts something saying their box does not record what it is asked to do and someone comes back and says they do not know what is wrong with "their box" that is a clear denial of facts that the recording issues affects many many boxes and depends on the types of shows to be recorded.

I too have no issue with both sides of the story as long as everyone lays off those who say they have issues and stop telling them it is their fault or their imagination. I will freely admit that people have boxes that have never had an issue recording something and promise I will never go into a thread talking about how great your box works and say you are wrong. However, the apologists have no issues telling people with problems that they are making it up and stating things in absolutes and it is irritating. I apologize if I unleased on you about this this but it builds up after a while. We should all just learn to understand that everyone is entitled to voice their opinion and it just might be true.

I had DirecTivos (SD and HD) for several years and while the TiVo is by no means perfect, I never had near the number of problems that I have had with the HR2x series of boxes recording things. Much of that is guide data related and TiVo actually went through their data to make sure it was more accurate. DirecTV could do this but choses not to. Then they changed it so TiVos had to use the same crappy guide data as the rest of the boxes, so I guess they probably screw up just as much now. (I have not used a DirecTiVo in a couple of years so I have no idea)


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Lee L said:


> I see no problem with "both sides of the story" (which BTW is a phrase usually used in a perjorative manner, suggesting that there is no factual basis to back up accusations). However, it is a fact that these boxes do miss shows. Actually, I have not had a missed show for a few months, but there has been a consistent number of threads and posts over several years and a wide variety of posters who have issues./QUOTE]
> 
> Whoa! there .. The big complaint these days are "slow receivers" and it's not really that the receivers are slow it's that the use of the navigation tools are slow (GUIDE, LIST, etc.). The next complaint is the Brrrrippp that folks get .. Some more than others depending on circumstances.
> 
> ...


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

The DirectTivo(if it even happens) wont even come close to the features that TivoHD has. I wouldnt trade it for any Directivo. And TivoHD has an OTA scan feature. Directv DVRs have a 2 city database.  Shame on you Directv!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

MP11, you're jumping to conclusions. No one here knows what the feature set of the upcoming TiVo product will be, if it will have all current TiVo features or not. Having spent some time with the TiVoHD, I though swivel search was ok, but I have no interest at all in ordering a pizza with my remote. 

OTA scan? Yes it would be nice about once every other year. However, you have to question its relevance as more markets get HD locals, more markets get more stations per market, and DIRECTV's OTA database becomes more stable.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

mp11 said:


> The DirectTivo(if it even happens) wont even come close to the features that TivoHD has. I wouldnt trade it for any Directivo. And TivoHD has an OTA scan feature. Directv DVRs have a 2 city database.  Shame on you Directv!


Of course you know that the old DirecTivo HR10-250 unit also had an OTA scan feature. I see no reason that a newer DirecTivo couldn't have that feature again despite the fact that the DirecTV DVRs don't.

And I wouldn't trade my HR10-250s for TivoHDs. All that would do is cost me about the same monthly fee and get me about 200 fewer channels.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Lee L said:


> ...
> 
> I had DirecTivos (SD and HD) for several years and while the TiVo is by no means perfect, I never had near the number of problems that I have had with the HR2x series of boxes recording things. Much of that is guide data related and TiVo actually went through their data to make sure it was more accurate. DirecTV could do this but choses not to. *Then they changed it so TiVos had to use the same crappy guide data as the rest of the boxes, so I guess they probably screw up just as much now*. (I have not used a DirecTiVo in a couple of years so I have no idea)


Not the experience I'm having - my SDTivo has been perfect as far as recording programs for my household.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> but I have no interest at all in ordering a pizza with my remote.


I also have no interest in popup ads everywhere or ads when I hit pause. That's one Tivo "feature" they can keep. :lol:


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> > MP11, you're jumping to conclusions. No one here knows what the feature set of the upcoming TiVo product will be, if it will have all current TiVo features or not.
> 
> 
> Do you really think Directv would ever allow Tivo to impliment a DVR that is in direct competition with theirs, that would have all those features, basically outshining theirs at every corner?
> ...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

I think many are assuming that the CPU renders the guide screen; that is the responsibility of the Character Generator. The CPU has little to do with the capabilities of the CG. The guide is overlaid in hardware on the main screen and not somehow painted on the video buffer.


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

whitepelican said:


> > Of course you know that the old DirecTivo HR10-250 unit also had an OTA scan feature. I see no reason that a newer DirecTivo couldn't have that feature again despite the fact that the DirecTV DVRs don't.
> 
> 
> I think you're right. That may be a feature brought in, along with "possibly" DLB. But dont look for much more.


----------



## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

When I got my first HR2x I remained a TiVo fan for almost a year. By then I it had become apparent the HR2x had much more to offer and more potential.

However, this issue has always bugged me. It never made any sense to me why the buffer would flush when recordings start. It’s the one thing that TiVo does that I sorely miss.

I’ve complained about this in issues threads. Every once and a while I do it again (it’s funny when someone replies that it’s a know issue  ).

Maybe everyone should test this but to see if they can replicate it and if so, post about it in the appropriate issues thread...I’m just sayin’ :grin:

Mike


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mp11 said:


> whitepelican said:
> 
> 
> > I think you're right. That may be a feature brought in, along with "possibly" DLB. But dont look for much more.
> ...


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> DIRECTV does it a different way and they've always done it differently.


That depends on what your definition of "it" is. With respect to producing DIRECTV enabled receivers, they're probably the most recent initiate to the the fraternity and it would seem that they still have a great deal to learn about competing in the consumer electronics marketplace.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> That depends on what your definition of "it" is. With respect to producing DIRECTV enabled receivers, they're probably the most recent initiate to the the fraternity and it would seem that they still have a great deal to learn about competing in the consumer electronics marketplace.


"it" would be how DIRECTV gets the OTA channel listing .. via the GUIDE instead of Scanning. Sorry seemed obvious to me what I was talking about. :shrug:

As for DIRECTV needing to "learn" .. well, DIRECTV made the choice to do "it" (use the OTA channel listing instead of scanning) the way that they do. We may never know why they do it this way, just that they do do it this way.


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## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

While I have no real complaints about my HR20, I just wish the FF/FR and 6-second rewind was as quick and smooth as it is on my Philips DSR704.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

mp11 said:


> I think you're right. That may be a feature brought in, along with "possibly" DLB. But dont look for much more.


I wouldn't want anything more. If my HR10-250s could get the MPEG4 HD channels, I would consider them perfect as is. (Oh, and MRV would also be nice. I find it hard to believe that DirecTV would put MRV on the HR2x series, and not allow it on the new DirecTivo).


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I would not find that hard to believe at all. I would in fact be surprised if TiVos worked with MRV, but hey, anything's possible.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

whitepelican said:


> mp11 said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't want anything more. If my HR10-250s could get the MPEG4 HD channels, I would consider them perfect as is. (Oh, and MRV would also be nice. I find it hard to believe that DirecTV would put MRV on the HR2x series, and not allow it on the new DirecTivo).
> ...


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have no interest at all in ordering a pizza with my remote.


Darn and here I was hoping to have a easy way to order a pizza since they took the /pizza order command out of the Everquest 2 game


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I hope so, but it does seem to fly in the face of logic that Directv would want to give Tivo a piece of the action when D* already has there own DVR. Only reason I can think of is if it's to appease the Tivo Patent Gods, thats the only reason I could see D* cutting them in.



Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, I don't know what to tell you. I hear a lot of the stuff Doug hears, and from a lot of the same people, and it sure seems like there's going to be a TiVo product.


----------



## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

While I would agree we all have no idea what a new DirectvTivo Box will be like or why Directv would even let them build one, if Tivo does build one it's a 100% certainty that it will be a newer much better designed DVR than the HR2X series.

Tivo is not stupid; they are not going to make a DVR that is less powerful than the HR2X because they know it will never sell. They are also not trying to get into the Low end part of the market because the HR2X are already cheaper than most Tivo Boxes. So what we can expect is a more expensive box than the HR2X with more abilities.

Directv will probably keep the HR2X to satisfy the regular customers and eventually create a HR3X to compete with the Tivo box, that's if D* has not already decided that building in house DVR's is just too much work.

I am pretty sure the HR2X was much more of a pain in the Butt to "perfect" than Directv ever expected and right about now they might be thinking that any future DVR's are probably best left to Tivo.



Stuart Sweet said:


> MP11, you're jumping to conclusions. No one here knows what the feature set of the upcoming TiVo product will be, if it will have all current TiVo features or not. Having spent some time with the TiVoHD, I though swivel search was ok, but I have no interest at all in ordering a pizza with my remote.
> 
> OTA scan? Yes it would be nice about once every other year. However, you have to question its relevance as more markets get HD locals, more markets get more stations per market, and DIRECTV's OTA database becomes more stable.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

dreadlk said:


> Tivo is not stupid; they are not going to make a DVR that is less powerful than the HR2X because they know it will never sell. They are also not trying to get into the Low end part of the market because the HR2X are already cheaper than most Tivo Boxes. So what we can expect is a more expensive box than the HR2X with more abilities.


is the real price of the HR2X much lower then a tivo as a tivo seems to be about the same as the real price of a cable dvr.


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## Tubaman-Z (Jul 31, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I would not find that hard to believe at all. I would in fact be surprised if TiVos worked with MRV, but hey, anything's possible.


Due to the "openness" of the sold (not leased) SD D*TiVos I have had MRV on mine for several years. I agree with Stuart that any new D*TiVos may not MRV with the HRxxs, but if could be that they would MRV with other new D*TiVos. We'll just have to wait and find out.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Considering a Tivo Series 3 is $500 and includes only a 250gb HD and has no sat tuners, the D*Tivo would have to be at least a 1TB drive with 2 tuners minimum and I suspect full OTA tuners etc. So it would be much more expensive than a series 3. Not sure how the rebates discounts etc might factor, but it's pretty certain that if you want Tivo then D* is not going to bend over backwards to give you discounts when the HR2X is available.



JoeTheDragon said:


> is the real price of the HR2X much lower then a tivo as a tivo seems to be about the same as the real price of a cable dvr.


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

mp11 said:


> The DirectTivo(if it even happens) wont even come close to the features that TivoHD has. I wouldnt trade it for any Directivo. And TivoHD has an OTA scan feature. Directv DVRs have a 2 city database.  Shame on you Directv!


How do you know? you do know that the new HD DirecTivo will have a higher HDDVR fee and will be marketed as a DirecTV Premium HDDVR service?.So if the new HD DirecTivo does not have the TivoHD features for the price it will be a failure.


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> > How do you know?
> 
> 
> That has been answered several tiimes in previous posts.
> ...


----------



## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Remember the Question:

" Why get Directivo when it comes out?"

The answers are in this thread.

1. Faster Box (faster CPU, GPU, what ever the tech terms to make it happen)

2. More Turners, 2 over the air, 2 sat

3. OTA scanning

4. More features, everything tivo has today and more

5. Many new HD guide options and menus (needs #1 first)

Then people will buy the new HR3x with Tivo ADD ON SOFTWARE even if the box and Tivo Software (or subscription) costs more.

Just answering the question with my own ideas, no facts as we dont know yet.



dreadlk said:


> While I would agree we all have no idea what a new DirectvTivo Box will be like or why Directv would even let them build one, if Tivo does build one it's a 100% certainty that it will be a newer much better designed DVR than the HR2X series.
> 
> Tivo is not stupid; they are not going to make a DVR that is less powerful than the HR2X because they know it will never sell. They are also not trying to get into the Low end part of the market because the HR2X are already cheaper than most Tivo Boxes. So what we can expect is a more expensive box than the HR2X with more abilities.
> 
> ...


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## mp11 (Apr 3, 2006)

scottchez said:


> Remember the Question:
> 
> " Why get Directivo when it comes out?"
> 
> ...


An ambitious wishlist indeed.


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## VLaslow (Aug 16, 2006)

sdk009 said:


> Do not forget that the PlayOn software is usable through any HR2X-XXX right now, and you can use it to stream Netflix videos.


 Well, for whatever reason, I have a friend who can't use Netflix on PlayOn. And, the PlayOn folks can't seem to help him.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

mp11 said:


> An ambitious wishlist indeed.


And remember, if there's a new hardware platform (which seems certain) it's almost going to be used for the next HR series DVR, so that will get faster also, and will probably have the same number of tuners.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

mp11 said:


> An ambitious wishlist indeed.


And let's not forget my personal favorite: DLB


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

BattleZone said:


> That's not an issue with the HR2x as much as it is with MPEG4 compression. Comparing to MPEG2 is unrealistic, given the vast differences in the way the two work. MPEG4 is much more efficient in large part because it looks many more frames before and after the current frame for redundant data to discard, but that also means that each frame doesn't contain all of the data for that frame. That's not a problem when watching normal speed, but any "trickplay" functions aren't going to be smooth like MPEG2 was.


I can step with the HRs it just makes my thumb hurt. 

What I liked about the Tivo was I could hold down the step button and it would continue to step frame by frame until I released it. With the HRs you have to press-press-press-press to step. AND I also forgot about this. Tivo would remove the progress bar at the first still step. HRs you have to hit exit to get it to go away. Not huge but it is an annoyance for football games.



HRJustin said:


> There actually is slow-mo built into the D* DVRs its just kinda tricky to use. You just need to press and hold the play button for a few seconds. I use RF on my R22 at my house so I've never had a problem using it. I noticed at my friends house with his R22 using IR that it doesn't work so well. His DVR is really low to the floor and in a bad spot to aim the remote his table is in the way. In order get his remote to work you have to hold your arm way up high. It really doesn't work good for long button hold commands.


I prefer still stepping to slo-mo, but even if I wanted slo-mo, the HRs take "forever" to activate.

Dang I thought I was totally happy with the HRs, but now I'm thinking I see a Directivo or two in my future.


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

Deezul said:


> I want another DirecTivo for one reason - Close Captioning stays on during FF1. So handy for catching up on shows when I've got a bunch queued up, as well as skipping through what I call "CSI moments" when they do their "science" and I want to know when they start talking again.


Graduate of Evelyn Wood?


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## MrAP (Aug 5, 2009)

Deezul said:


> I want another DirecTivo for one reason - Close Captioning stays on during FF1. So handy for catching up on shows when I've got a bunch queued up, as well as skipping through what I call "CSI moments" when they do their "science" and I want to know when they start talking again.


+1

I really miss the feature on my HR2x.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Deezul said:


> I want another DirecTivo for one reason - Close Captioning stays on during FF1.


But closed captioning on a new DirecTiVo will still be seriously flawed if you have to drill through 4 or 5 menus just to be able to turn it on or off.

It should be as close to a one-button toggle as they can get. Right now that feature on the HR2x series blows the TiVo (at least the DirecTiVos) away.


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## Deezul (Oct 10, 2006)

nowandthen said:


> Graduate of Evelyn Wood?


Georgia Tech, thank you very much. And I'm pretty sure that Forensic Scientists don't have a stupid grin on their face and listen to a techno soundtrack when they work either...

Regarding the difficulty of turning on CC, I leave it on most of the time anyway. It's quite handy when you have a 1 year old running around yelling and a 7 and 9 year old who won't be quiet, or interrupt every 3 seconds.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> While I would agree we all have no idea what a new DirectvTivo Box will be like or why Directv would even let them build one, if Tivo does build one it's a 100% certainty that it will be a newer much better designed DVR than the HR2X series.


I wouldn't rest my laurels on that certainty.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Please explain why they would even bother to make a DVR if it's going to be inferior to the HR20? It would never sell and it would be very embarsing for Tivo not to mention that a great DTivo would give them a chance to stick it in E*'s face and confirm to the world who makes the best DVR's. Thats a once in a lifetime chance for them to secure the whole DVR market for the long term, I doubt they are going to mess this one up.



Doug Brott said:


> I wouldn't rest my laurels on that certainty.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> Please explain why they would even bother to make a DVR if it's going to be inferior to the HR20?


Cost control.

That's why DIRECTV commissioned their own series of receivers that aren't superior to the HR20 (unless you count paint color as a key performance criteria).


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Whats the point of cost control if your not able to sell the product?
Who in his right mind is going to get a Tivo if it's more expensive and inferior to the HR2X? And yes it will be more expensive, all Tivo stuff is more expensive.



harsh said:


> Cost control.
> 
> That's why DIRECTV commissioned their own series of receivers that aren't superior to the HR20 (unless you count paint color as a key performance criteria).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Who said that the TiVo hardware was going to be inferior to the HR2x?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> Who said that the TiVo hardware was going to be inferior to the HR2x?


I'm sure someone has and I'm sure someone has said the opposite.

I'm waiting to hear that they will be using SSD's in raid 5 and when you turn it on you get the big O.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> I'm sure someone has and I'm sure someone has said the opposite.
> 
> I'm waiting to hear that they will be using SSD's in raid 5 and when you turn it on you get the big O.


:rolling:


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> I'm waiting to hear that they will be using SSD's in raid 5 and when you turn it on you get the big O.


I need some of what he's on:eek2:


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

All jokes aside, I'm still running my HR10-250 Tivo's because the wife loves them, but I personally use the HR20-700 because of the mpeg4 HD OTA recordings. I will buy a new HD DirectTivo in a New York second once they are released. I paid $800.00 for my first HR10-250 back in the days.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> Whats the point of cost control if your not able to sell the product?
> Who in his right mind is going to get a Tivo if it's more expensive and inferior to the HR2X? And yes it will be more expensive, all Tivo stuff is more expensive.


Think of this as a three way win: 1) Some customers really, really want TiVo, above all else; 2) DIRECTV keeps those customers, gets to sell more units, and sell them for a premium; 3) TiVo gets a larger cut (from the premium price), more customers, and a happy agreement with DIRECTV. Plus their branding.

All of this came out in the initial press releases and interviews by both companies. Another thing that came out is the DIRECTiVo won't be on unique hardware. It might not be an existing HR2x, but DIRECTV was expecting to use the same hardware for their software as well. Now 10 months later, I'm not seeing anything different from that news.

Cheers,
Tom


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

dreadlk said:


> Who in his right mind is going to get a Tivo if it's more expensive and inferior to the HR2X?


This is in no way meant to infer that a new HD DirecTiVo WILL be in any way inferior to the HR2x, but even if that were the case there would be PLENTY of people who would go with the TiVo simply because, well, *it's a TiVo*.

(Thanfully, I'm not afflicted with that disease)


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> I'm sure someone has and I'm sure someone has said the opposite.
> 
> I'm waiting to hear that they will be using SSD's in raid 5 and when you turn it on you get the big O.


I'm not expecting SSDs until they get the total number of write cycles up by several orders of magnitude. DVRs are writing always (and DLB DVRs are even moreso) so they would eat SSDs to death in no time at all. 

And SSDs would have to finally be cheaper than magnetic disks too... 

(Yeah, I know you were joking... but I just had to reply anyway.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Deezul (Oct 10, 2006)

Last year, I called to replace my HR10-250s. I ended up only replacing one since I'm hoping to use the remaining one for a deal on the new DirecTiVo. My wife still prefers the TiVo interface. I like them both. I'll probably hold onto one or two HR2xs, just because I'd also like to assure that if something happens and the TiVo software is updated at 8:30 at night, I'll still have one or two devices chugging along. Not to say it will happened, but it happened with the HR2xes, so I'm not taking that chance.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dreadlk said:


> Whats the point of cost control if your not able to sell the product?
> Who in his right mind is going to get a Tivo if it's more expensive and inferior to the HR2X? And yes it will be more expensive, all Tivo stuff is more expensive.


Tivo will always be inferior to me because of the gui.. Whereas some people will always feel the HR's will be inferior, because of their gui, even if it gets updated to HD graphics, and all kinds of other stuff, it will never treat its users like 5 year olds, and tivo always will, so you will always have some people who prefer that interface. It really doesn't matter what other features it does or does not have.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> I'm not expecting SSDs until they get the total number of write cycles up by several orders of magnitude. DVRs are writing always (and DLB DVRs are even moreso) so they would eat SSDs to death in no time at all.
> 
> And SSDs would have to finally be cheaper than magnetic disks too...
> 
> ...


Why you have to kill my buzz?


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Answer: HRs now have DoublePlay!!


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Who said that the TiVo hardware was going to be inferior to the HR2x?


I cannot imagine a reason not to use the same hardware platform. There is a significant cost advantage to using the same hardware. TiVo has hardware requirements similar if not identical to the HR2x series. The only reason to use different hardware would be if you wanted to drive the cost up.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

Something I miss in my Tivo UI. I sit down to watch a show I recorded while I was out of town. 20 minutes in, picture goes away due to rain fade. 5 minutes of missing show. Tivo used to show this as a 55 minute partial recording. HR shows it as a 1:00 full recording.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

gregjones said:


> I cannot imagine a reason not to use the same hardware platform. There is a significant cost advantage to using the same hardware. TiVo has hardware requirements similar if not identical to the HR2x series. The only reason to use different hardware would be if you wanted to drive the cost up.


Nobody in their right mind has insisted for very long that the new DIRECTiVo would be a different hardware platform. There is still a question whether or not the existing hardware architecture has the ability to support all the TiVo functionality that users expect. After all, it took more than three years for DIRECTV to emulate one of the more notable features in DoublePlay.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

harsh said:


> Nobody in their right mind has insisted for very long that the new DIRECTiVo would be a different hardware platform. There is still a question whether or not the existing hardware architecture has the ability to support all the TiVo functionality that users expect. After all, it took more than three years for DIRECTV to emulate one of the more notable features in DoublePlay.


A number of people not in their right mind have insisted on that. I feel it only proves how unright their mind is.

I, for one, believe that the functionality in question had more to do with a renewed agreement for the (patented) technology than a lack of understanding or skill. Knowing how is only half of the problem. You also have to have the legal standing to do it without being sued. Dish never worries about the second half and is in court most of the time.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

If a new hardware platform is coming out it would be in TiVo's best interest to design it for that platform. However no one knows, other then DirecTV and equipment partners, if a new platform is even close.

So speculate away but again nothing will be known until they release that it's going to be available on a set date.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

harsh said:


> There is still a question whether or not the existing hardware architecture has the ability to support all the TiVo functionality that users expect. After all, it took more than three years for DIRECTV to emulate one of the more notable features in DoublePlay.


I don't see any question at all as to whether or not the hardware is capable of supporting the functionality. The HR2x series has a more powerful processor, and more memory, than any of the prior DirecTivo platforms.

The time it took to develop and implement Double Play is no indication of hardware limitation, evidenced by the fact that it works just fine on all of the HR2x series platforms.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

All I know is the press release from way back makes a couple of mentions about a "new box". Based on that, it sounds pretty reasonable to me that the TiVo thing will not run on the current HR2x series. It also seems somewhat doubtfull that DirecTV will not use the same box for their next platforms since TiVo is more and more into porting their software onto other boxes and surely no one thinks the HR2x line will go on forever..

Then again, since press releases are usually written by marketing people, it is entirely possible that there is nothing factual to be gained from the PR either.


----------



## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Lee L said:


> All I know is the press release from way back makes a couple of mentions about a "new box". Based on that, it sounds pretty reasonable to me that the TiVo thing will not run on the current HR2x series. It also seems somewhat doubtfull that DirecTV will not use the same box for their next platforms since TiVo is more and more into porting their software onto other boxes and surely no one thinks the HR2x line will go on forever..
> 
> Then again, since press releases are usually written by marketing people, it is entirely possible that there is nothing factual to be gained from the PR either.


A new hardware box would be poor ROI, they would have to stock 2 different boxes, in case of failure the CSR would have to make sure they schedule the correct hardware box to be shipped out, etc it would be a logistics nightmare. By building on the same hardware platform the csr ships one box, when the box is connected on first boot it downloads which ever version of software the customer pays for and is intitled to. Simple, easy, straight forward, drasticly cuts down on the margin for wrong equipment error.

If there is new hardware, if is a pretty good bet that it will be software independent and "hack proof" so that either software version can be layed down one it. Suspect a lot of old Directv Tivo users will be disappointed that they cannot modify the software as they did with the HR10


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Lee L said:


> All I know is the press release from way back makes a couple of mentions about a "new box". Based on that, it sounds pretty reasonable to me that the TiVo thing will not run on the current HR2x series. It also seems somewhat doubtfull that DirecTV will not use the same box for their next platforms since TiVo is more and more into porting their software onto other boxes and surely no one thinks the HR2x line will go on forever..
> 
> Then again, since press releases are usually written by marketing people, it is entirely possible that there is nothing factual to be gained from the PR either.


The phrase "new box" never appeared. People read too much into the words. The term platform can be (and I believe was) used to represent both the software and the hardware. People interpreted it the way that they chose, hoping that TiVO was going to run on a magical box with 932 tuners and costing only 19.99.


----------



## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Tivo will always be inferior to me because of the gui.. Whereas some people will always feel the HR's will be inferior, because of their gui, even if it gets updated to HD graphics, and all kinds of other stuff, it will never treat its users like 5 year olds, and tivo always will, so you will always have some people who prefer that interface. It really doesn't matter what other features it does or does not have.


Actually the features do matter. The HR2X's have come a long way but it seems clear that Diriectv will not fix the issues that irritate me (progress bar does not go away when I still-step, and still-stepping with Hr20's requires multiple presses of the >> button). Not biggies to many but for me during football season it is a biggie.  If Tivo functions as it did on th HR10-250 then I may have to go with them. HR2X's have features I like over the HR10-250 so it isn't an easy decision. But... I never felt like I was being treated like a 5 year old when I had Tivos.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

carl6 said:


> The time it took to develop and implement Double Play is no indication of hardware limitation, evidenced by the fact that it works just fine on all of the HR2x series platforms.


If the hardware was so capable, why did it take so long? Was it so they could add widgets, limited media playing and DIRECTV2PC? Obviously the first few months were spent trying to get OTA working and then on to the not entirely well thought out and grossly undersupported eSATA implementation.

Regrettably, it probably was a case of whacked out priorities.


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## aslaughter82 (Apr 13, 2009)

My 2cents is that with the current progression on the HR2xx series and the likelihood that there will be more delays (as per standard operating procedure it seems) with the DirecTivo by the time its ready most features will be the same if not better on D* own box. Thus GUI and suggestions being the only thing left to Tivo's advantage.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

gregjones said:


> The phrase "new box" never appeared. People read too much into the words. The term platform can be (and I believe was) used to represent both the software and the hardware. People interpreted it the way that they chose, hoping that TiVO was going to run on a magical box with 932 tuners and costing only 19.99.


SOrry, I beg to differ on this one.

I direct you to the first and third paragraphs of the DirecTV press release, linked in the original DirecTV TiVo thread from Sept 2008. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443 I have also posted the relavent sections here.

Paragraph One 
I know it only says "a new HD DirecTV DVR" and I agree that is ambiguous but it is entirely reasonable that it be construed as new hardware. It certainly does not say new software layer on the existing box



DirecTV PR said:


> EL SEGUNDO and ALVISO, Calif., Sept. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- DIRECTV, Inc. (Nasdaq: DTV - News), the nation's leading satellite television service provider, and TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO - News), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVR), announced today that they have extended their current agreement, which includes the development, marketing and distribution *of a new HD DIRECTV DVR* featuring the TiVo® service, as well as the extension of mutual intellectual property arrangements


Paragraph three. Here it says "this new box" Assuming that the PR was written by someone with a clue, I can't see how this could be more specific in stating this will be new hardware.



DirecTV PR said:


> DIRECTV will continue to develop and offer its own portfolio of industry leading set top boxes as primary offerings to both new and existing customers. *This new TiVo box* will be offered as an alternative choice to those DIRECTV customers who would like to add TiVo to a full line up of DIRECTV services.


Now, going by the SEC filing, which is in post two of the thread, they contradict a little here within the document. ( I am leaving out the whole paragraph due to being so long.) I will agree this first part could definitely be saying that the existing platform is used.


DirecTV SEC Filing said:


> ...TiVo will develop a new version of the TiVo® service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled high definition DVR platform.


However, in the very next sentence, they use different wording. This to me is suggesting that the "new DirecTV DVR with service" is a thing in and of itself. It does not say the existing DirecTV DVR with TiVO service added to it. Note how they also refer to the new thing in the exact same wording as the old DirecTiVo boxes.



DirecTV SEC filing said:


> As part of this new agreement, DIRECTV will pay a substantially higher monthly fee for households using *the new high definition DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo* than the fees for previously deployed DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service.


Now, As I said, this could have been written by marketing people who know nothing at all and be all wrong. However, as it is the only written announcement of the whole thing I can find, it is all I can go on. There certainly is no way to read this to say it will definitely be on the existing HR2x series and say that those who think it might be a new box are all wrong. At most, it is all ambiguous but I would say that a reasonable observer would conclude that there is more in favor of using a new piece of hardware than not. However, please do not accuse me of "reading too much into words" when the words are right there all along

Now, if this is a new box, I fully expect DirecTV to use it with their software as well, so it will not be wasted effort as suggested elsewhere. I also expect that it will have two tuners (maybe a three as a stretch) and will be much more expensive than the current HR2x both up front and monthly.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The DIRECTV PR department has always had some problems with reality. Two of DIRECTV's most often quoted mouthpieces, Derek Chang and Robert Mercer have been relatively chronic with factual problems in the past.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Does anybody really continue to think that a D* TiVo is realistic in these economic times? Maybe once recovery is well underway, but surely not now.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Lee L said:


> SOrry, I beg to differ on this one.


And this is still exceptionally ambiguous. Were there to be new hardware, it would be expected that we would hear announcements from the manufacturers. Marketing folks see the branding on-screen as the only delineation between a product and the next. To them, a TiVo logo on-screen means it is a different product, a different DVR and a different platform.

We have no data regarding the hardware specs of a new hardware platform. Remember that this is generally the first set of information available when new hardware is coming down the line. The manufacturers of the components generally have a glut of press about the inclusion of their hardware in any new widget. Look at the amount of press generated just by DirecTV licensing a database technology for the DVR line. We do not know that it has been used yet in production, but the press releases are all out there.

The HR2x hardware platform has a few variants with very minute differences (predominantly an OTA tuner pair, a network chipset and hard drive size). We knew about all of these variants well in advance. Until DirecTV or TiVo come out and specifically say that the hardware will be different than the HR2x line, it is not wise to assume it will be.

The press release quoted does nothing but use a few vague terms to sell people on the importance of the announcement. Manufacturing details about any new hardware platform are conspicuous by their continued absence.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

harsh said:


> The DIRECTV PR department has always had some problems with reality. Two of DIRECTV's most often quoted mouthpieces, Derek Chang and Robert Mercer have been relatively chronic with factual problems in the past.


I agree, harsh. To many of the marketing folks the terms platform, software and DVR are synonyms. This is why many of us don't try to determine hardware specs by vague initial press releases.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

I am still of the belief (no facts at all here to back it up), that a new hardware platform, call it the HR30, will be introduced next year and will be capable of running both D* DVR software and TiVo software. Those customers that choose the D* configuration will pay the same fees we pay now for the HR2x. Those customers that choose the TiVo configuration will pay an extra $5 dollars a month.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

ATARI said:


> I am still of the belief (no facts at all here to back it up), that a new hardware platform, call it the HR30, will be introduced next year and will be capable of running both D* DVR software and TiVo software. Those customers that choose the D* configuration will pay the same fees we pay now for the HR2x. Those customers that choose the TiVo configuration will pay an extra $5 dollars a month.


This I would not doubt, as it would not represent a hardware line completely distinct from the (then-current) DirecTV line. Whether the fee is $5 or $10 or another sum would be speculation.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

The thing that will switch me back over to tivo is a true off air tuner that can actually do a scan and get channels other than the ones DTV says I am allowed to have.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

carl6 said:


> I don't see any question at all as to whether or not the hardware is capable of supporting the functionality. The HR2x series has a more powerful processor, and more memory, than any of the prior DirecTivo platforms.
> 
> The time it took to develop and implement Double Play is no indication of hardware limitation, evidenced by the fact that it works just fine on all of the HR2x series platforms.


The current HR2x can't support its own functionality reliably. Whether its poor design or poor manufacturing, I'm hoping the hardware is different.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ATARI said:


> I am still of the belief (no facts at all here to back it up), that a new hardware platform, call it the HR30, will be introduced next year and will be capable of running both D* DVR software and TiVo software.


You need to read the TiVo financial results press release. It states clearly that their system will be available to all DIRECTV customers upon release. That means the HR2x as we know it.


TiVo Q2 2009 press release said:


> Lastly, the new DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR remains on track for its rollout and, as we stated previously, once launched, it will be immediately accessible to DIRECTV's entire national customer base.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

harsh said:


> You need to read the TiVo financial results press release. It states clearly that their system will be available to all DIRECTV customers upon release. That means the HR2x as we know it.


While I agree with your thought I don't agree with how it's worded. Available is very generic and that means that anyone could order one. However I still stand by the statement I made when this was announced that they'll be using their new java software they announced earlier just modified to work with the HR series.


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

harsh said:


> You need to read the TiVo financial results press release. It states clearly that their system will be available to all DIRECTV customers upon release. That means the HR2x as we know it.


I read it, but I don't see where it says it needs to run on the HR2x?

When I read the quote in context:

"Updating the progress of Comcast roll-out, Mark Hess, Comcast Senior Vice President of Video Products, said, "As anticipated, TiVo On-line Scheduler has started its early roll-out in our Boston market. We're also excited about launching the Comcast-TiVo product beyond our Boston market and are now in the initial preparation phases for taking it to an additional yet-to-be announced market as well as for our previously announced plans to offer it as the primary DVR option in another yet-to-be named market."

Lastly, the new DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR remains on track for its rollout and, as we stated previously, once launched, it will be immediately accessible to DIRECTV's entire national customer base."

it is implying that unlike the Comcast rollout, it will be available to ALL of DIRECTV customers including those who use an R10, SD6000, hr10-250, etc.

This will be a new box available for all DIRECTV subscribers (sorry DISH and Comcast customers)


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

jfalkingham said:


> I read it, but I don't see where it says it needs to run on the HR2x?
> 
> Quote:
> "Lastly, the new DIRECTV TiVo HD DVR remains on track for its rollout and, as we stated previously, once launched, it will be immediately accessible to DIRECTV's entire national customer base. "
> ...


Sorry no,the HR10 does not have the correct hardware to handle MPEG4, suspect they mean it will be a extra charge download option to either existing HR2X boxes or the yet to be proven but speculated about HRXXXXXX boxes


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

Right - it will not work, so it has to be a new box in order to accommodate the "entire national customer base" for DIRECTV.


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## jhsanchez (Feb 4, 2006)

I was watching CNBC about five minutes ago and Tom Rodgers (TiVo CEO) said they were working with D* and would have a product out early next year. So, no rumor but nothing specific either.

We can all chew on this a while
Jim


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

jhsanchez said:


> I was watching CNBC about five minutes ago and Tom Rodgers (TiVo CEO) said they were working with D* and would have a product out early next year. So, no rumor but nothing specific either.
> 
> We can all chew on this a while
> Jim


Same information that was presented last April (which was a revision from last September's initial announcement).


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Exactly, nothing has been said that is clear enough to say definitively one way or another that it will or will not be new hardware.

Technically, every receiver DirecTV currently makes is "available to the entire customer base", just call and they will gladly take your money and ship it to you. 


If you really want to read into words, the phrase "available to the entire customer base" could easily be construed as a new model altogehter, since a non DVR receiver cannot magically download a hard drive to use the TiVo software, so if it is a download, it cannot be available to all. THen again, people without a DVR could just buy a HR2x and then download the software. So, still not definitive one way or the other.

I'm sure we will find out eventually.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

jhsanchez said:


> I was watching CNBC about five minutes ago and Tom Rodgers (TiVo CEO) said they were working with D* and would have a product out early next year. So, no rumor but nothing specific either.
> 
> We can all chew on this a while
> Jim


That's not any more info then their official announcement nearly a year ago. And both times it was "next year". :lol:


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

IMHO there is absolutely positively no way that DirecTV would EVER let TiVo download their software onto the HR series DVRs. That would completely go against the whole idea of having their own DVR and their own software. So all the time spent working on the HR software would have been pointless. Sure not everyone would switch to TiVo software. Plus that would basically cost almost nothing for TiVo to just stream their software to the current DirecTV HR series HD DVRs. I would say its almost certian that the next DirecTiVo would be a completely new receiver.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

On the other hand, there's a lot of commonality between the HR2x series and the TivoHD on the hardware end. A lot of DVRs use many of the same components. TiVo is a software company at heart, why not let someone else manufacture the boxes?


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> On the other hand, there's a lot of commonality between the HR2x series and the TivoHD on the hardware end. A lot of DVRs use many of the same components. TiVo is a software company at heart, why not let someone else manufacture the boxes?


Oh, Stuart, you know they want to support completely different hardware for no reason whatsoever. They love having a new manufacturing line and new hardware contracts when they could just focus on delivering good software. Who doesn't want to introduce pointless worries when a simple straightforward path exists.

In all seriousness, though, my question is why anyone thinks different TiVo hardware would bring something to the table? What would be gained by different hardware? The components are all there (no whining about the OTA tuner or the AM21). Companies generally make these kinds of decisions based on dollars. Spending millions on a new hardware line unnecessarily makes no sense at all. I expect the same incremental improvements in the HR2x hardware that we have seen over the years and for the TiVo software to run on most if not all of them.


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

I understand that it would be easier to just put TiVo software on the HR series dvrs. In concept it would be a good idea to do it this I never said it couldnt be done. IMO I just dont think it will happen all of the TiVo receivers have been always been separate TiVo branded boxes made for use with specific providers. I just cant see DirecTV doing this after all the time, effort, and money they have put into their own receivers and software. Just to let TiVo swoop in and throw their software on them for an extra fee to the subscriber.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

HRJustin said:


> Sure not everyone would switch to TiVo software.


I would expect a very small percentage of current HR series customers would switch to Tivo software (basically only some of those that had Tivo based DVRs before). For those who truly do want it, great. For those who do not, equally great.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

HRJustin said:


> I just cant see DirecTV doing this after all the time, effort, and money they have put into their own receivers and software. Just to let TiVo swoop in and throw their software on them for an extra fee to the subscriber.


Part of the agreement negotiated between DirecTV and Tivo. I would expect DirecTV does not see this as a particular threat to their DVR product, rather as a niche market for those who are interested.


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## HRJustin (Mar 5, 2009)

carl6 said:


> Part of the agreement negotiated between DirecTV and Tivo. I would expect DirecTV does not see this as a particular threat to their DVR product, rather as a niche market for those who are interested.


Yea it all makes sense I wouldn't mind if they did it that way. It would really save users that really want TiVo alot of money by not having to purchase a separate new box. Instead they could pay a much smaller fee just to get the software. It all makes perfect sense I just honestly don't see it happening that way. I would never pay for it and the additional monthly fees associated just to have TiVo software. I know there are alot of people that are die hard TiVo fans and if they prefer it I understand why they would want it.

Edit: I can see in all of the released documentation that its pretty vague about what the the "new" DirecTV HD DVR is. I see now how it could be interpreted as a possible upgrade to existing customers. I am still going to assume that there will be a completely new TiVo branded receiver. Although I admit the advantages there would be by just offering an upgrade to DirecTVs existing HD DVRs


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## nowandthen (Nov 19, 2005)

carl6 said:


> Part of the agreement negotiated between DirecTV and Tivo. I would expect DirecTV does not see this as a particular threat to their DVR product, rather as a niche market for those who are interested.


It also keeps Directv out of court. Yesterday I heard Tivo brought suit against AT&T and Verizon. Directv and Comcast appear to be the only smart players in that they license Tivo technology. Dish, AT&T and Verizon, may not be so smart. Time will tell.

Maybe Directv gets a lower license fee if they let Tivo offer a box/software? Win/win for Directv. They license the software and provide a Tivo to those customers that want it.

I believe it will be a unique box. Why? Because Tivo would not be subject to another companies specifications. If I'm Tivo I would want my own hardware on which to develop my software. This way I am not at then mercy should the the other company (Directv) suddenly change their spec. It's my hardware, I change it if I need to, not someone else. Tivo is providing software to Comcast to use on Comcast hardware. Has that happened yet? (How long has it been?) I admit I have not followed Tivo and Comcast but assuming it has not yet happened yet, then I think that adds more fuel to my argument that Tivo will make their own box. They have boxes now, they could copy most or all of that hardware and make it work with Directv.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

nowandthen said:


> It also keeps Directv out of court. Yesterday I heard Tivo brought suit against AT&T and Verizon. Directv and Comcast appear to be the only smart players in that they license Tivo technology. Dish, AT&T and Verizon, may not be so smart. Time will tell.
> 
> Maybe Directv gets a lower license fee if they let Tivo offer a box/software? Win/win for Directv. They license the software and provide a Tivo to those customers that want it.
> 
> I believe it will be a unique box. Why? Because Tivo would not be subject to another companies specifications. If I'm Tivo I would want my own hardware on which to develop my software. This way I am not at then mercy should the the other company (Directv) suddenly change their spec. It's my hardware, I change it if I need to, not someone else. Tivo is providing software to Comcast to use on Comcast hardware. Has that happened yet? (How long has it been?) I admit I have not followed Tivo and Comcast but assuming it has not yet happened yet, then I think that adds more fuel to my argument that Tivo will make their own box. They have boxes now, they could copy most or all of that hardware and make it work with Directv.


TiVo knows they would never win against DirecTV in a courtroom. DirecTV owns Replay and their patents. TiVo and Replay already tried the court thing and they both realised neither was likely to win.

If TiVo does all the R&D and testing to make software work DirecTV loses nothing. I don't think DirecTV cares either way if it comes out or if it doesn't. If it does then great their customers have another option.

There are functions in the stand alone box that I don't believe would be allowed in a direct unit. Such as the ability to back up to a computer. With the way they're making things work with HDCP I can't see them allowing people to backup and burn HD content.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jfalkingham said:


> Right - it will not work, so it has to be a new box in order to accommodate the "entire national customer base" for DIRECTV.


It does not have to be a new box.

They left the wording very open ended that could mean multiple things.

"Available" just means that. It could mean that every DirecTV customer is available to order a new DVR Tivo only box or it could mean that its available to get the software to an HR box. All customers can order an HR box as well.

Now what is really false in that statement is that MDU accounts and properties may not be able to get this and there are certain older accounts that are rentals that would need to be changed to get it.

They worded this intentionally as to not say how the it would be. I still believe it will be software based at first and then, MAYBE, when DirecTV launches their next gen hardware a native TiVo might be offered then. However if the next gen is the whole home system and not another version of the HR then I don't see that happening either.

Bottom line is only TiVo, DirecTV and people who they deem need to know will ever have the answer. 1Q10 is coming up fast I would say that they're already field testing whatever it is.

Of course if Stuart would just close this thread we could find out tomorrow.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

If the new D*TiVo costs more up front and more per month, as many have speculated, then there had better be a corresponding throttling of D*'s obnoxious attempts to force VOD and PPV and premium channels down our throats.

In other words, if the new D*TiVo continues D*'s practice of polluting search results with channels you don't receive and channels you don't want, or if it retains control of the background tuner for recording movies you will never buy, it will not be adopted by many customers.

All it would take to satisfy customers like me is the addition of user preferences (options) such as:
• No big separate partition for VOD
• No background recording (background buffer always active)
• Let me specify which channels to search


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> All it would take to satisfy customers like me is the addition of user preferences (options) such as:
> • No big separate partition for VOD


Hmmmm. Tivo's had and still have plenty of "reserved space" as well. I see no difference.



> • No background recording (background buffer always active)


And this is a big deal why? Of course Tivo just takes over a tuner around 3am and does what it needs to do as well. So they both do it, just differently.



> • Let me specify which channels to search


Agreed if your talking having search work off a favorite list. However you can choose a channel or channel range on a search so you can get similar results that way.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm not allowed to call anyone a fanboy, right?


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> I'm not allowed to call anyone a fanboy, right?


Are you talking about the TIVO worship fanboys or the DirecTV fanboys???


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

It's interesting that you apply the "worship" tag only to TiVo lovers, *dhhaines*. I'd call that verrry revealing.


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> It's interesting that you apply the "worship" tag only to TiVo lovers, *dhhaines*. I'd call that verrry revealing.


It actually doesn't reveal anything. I could care less about either company, if I thought TIVO had the better DVR right now I would be with FIOS with a TIVO hooked up. IF the new DirecTV TIVO is better then the HR2x I'll get one.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Yea, I could care less what the UI is of my DVR. Tivo, DirecTV, whatever. So long as it records my shows and I can play them back. All I need, all I want. Either will do that just fine.


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## Mark L (Oct 23, 2006)

jfalkingham said:


> That is why I said
> 
> "I'm hoping DIRECTV will offer this functionality on the HD DVR's soon (ability to actually manage your recordings, not just set a recording)."


Get a SlingBox, it's much much better than DirecTV's online service.

I set my recordings from my smartphone and have for a long time.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

When you say something like this I listen, also others seem to be jumping in on this idea. Makes a whole lot of sense to me, Tivo sticks to doing what they do best and IMO D* can slowly back out of something that to them must have been considereded a disaster.



Stuart Sweet said:


> On the other hand, there's a lot of commonality between the HR2x series and the TivoHD on the hardware end. A lot of DVRs use many of the same components. TiVo is a software company at heart, why not let someone else manufacture the boxes?


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## jfalkingham (Dec 6, 2005)

logan2575 said:


> Get a SlingBox, it's much much better than DirecTV's online service.
> 
> I set my recordings from my smartphone and have for a long time.


Have the sling, been using that for a long time on my dsr6000 sitting in the basement. I've been evaluating the Comcast TiVO setup, and I must say their online scheduler is much better than DIRECTV's out of the water. Not sure if its produced by TiVO, but it actually lets you alter season pass list, todo list, etc through the localized device app or web browser which is nice when I don't have sling up. It's closer to how Moxi handles it, conflict resolution and all.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, I could care less what the UI is of my DVR. Tivo, DirecTV, whatever. So long as *it records my shows and I can play them back*. All I need, all I want. Either will do that just fine.


This practically begs for a response. For a reality check, I refer to *A compendium of HR2x software problems*...

_It records my shows?_
• Series Links are limited to 50
• Person and Keyword searches produce lists that identify channels only by number
• Search results in general include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get
• Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get
• Search-result lists refresh themselves for no reason, and sometimes restart from the beginning
• Search results don't always include all matches

_I can play them back?_
• The entire UI is so slow that keys are ignored, or acted on too late
• All remote button presses are ignored for the first few seconds after playback starts
• Press-and-hold functions work only sometimes
• Press-and-hold functions, when they work, take way too long to engage
• Press-and-hold functions sometimes engage when you least expect it
• Instant Replay goes back only 5 seconds, but takes up to 3 seconds to engage
• Autocorrection after FF goes way too far backwards after all 3 speeds
• The progress bar covers too much of the screen and stays up too long
• Exit clears the progress bar, but might dismiss the program you're watching
• The progress bar shows a recording as complete no matter how much of it was lost to rain fade
• Closed Captioning does not stay on during FF1


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## BillyT2008 (Mar 26, 2008)

CCarncross said:


> I was always of the camp that the Tivo interface sucked....and don't get me started on the peanut remote....


Dude, you obviously have not developed a sophisticated palate for the finer things in life and know nothing about good ergonomic design.

The TIVO peanut remote is by far the most ingenious redesign of any remote ever - period. It fits the hand like a glove. In my humble opinion, there can be no better design, form factor or look and feel for a remote. The TIVO peanut is perfection in that regard.

There is no argument here... end of discussion!


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## BillyT2008 (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm looking forward to the new box in order to hopefully get around the 50 season pass limit.


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## BillyT2008 (Mar 26, 2008)

HRJustin said:


> I just wanted to respond to the new TiVo or any other receiver for that matter having Netflix streaming built in post. I really doubt this would ever get built into a DirecTV receiver. Why would they allow an unlimited movie streaming service (with a Netflix account of course) on their receiver. DirecTV wants users to purchase movies from them this would totally screw them over.
> 
> I have had a Netflix account since 07 I have hardly ever used the online streaming service. I just don't have a good enough internet connection to download VOD or do constant streaming of movies. I think Ive watched maybe two movies so far :lol:


In my opinion, a media center PC running Windows Media Center to the television is the best way to stream Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, anyway. I don't need it built into yet another set top box.

I am in the process, myself of ripping all of my DVDs to my media center and it's taking forever. I have a 2 TB drive I have dedicated to the mission and another one to back that one up. I can see in a few years, I'll need to upgrade them, though.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

BillyT2008 said:


> Dude, you obviously have not developed a sophisticated palate for the finer things in life and know nothing about good ergonomic design.
> 
> The TIVO peanut remote is by far the most ingenious redesign of any remote ever - period. It fits the hand like a glove. In my humble opinion, there can be no better design, form factor or look and feel for a remote. The TIVO peanut is perfection in that regard.
> 
> There is no argument here... end of discussion!


Spoiling for a fight, eh? Bet you didn't expect to get one from a fellow TiVo aficionado!

Sure the peanut is well designed ergonomically -- except for that _awful directional pad_ at the top. Even after 10 years with the thing, I still go up or down when I mean to go left or right (or vice versa), because there are no discrete arrow buttons. Back in the days when I could talk to TiVo Inc on the phone, their agents agreed with me and said the same thing would happen to them.

And I must say that there's one good thing about the RC64R that came with my HR21: Its buttons feel good to press, with very good tactile feedback, and respond quickly. (Too bad the RC64R's layout is unfriendly, and the HR21 itself often responds very slowly, if at all.)


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

BillyT2008 said:


> Dude, you obviously have not developed a sophisticated palate for the finer things in life and know nothing about good ergonomic design.
> 
> The TIVO peanut remote is by far the most ingenious redesign of any remote ever - period. It fits the hand like a glove. *In my humble opinion, *there can be no better design, form factor or look and feel for a remote. The TIVO peanut is perfection in that regard.
> 
> There is no argument here... end of discussion!


Which part of your post did "in my humble opinion" refer to? That was a harsh opening statement, in my not so humble opinion. Just a thought, but you might want to tone down any criticism you may have about someone else's preferences and taste.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Good thing for me is that I don't have a single one of these problems. I could address all of these for you as to why but I'm not sure it would be constructive.

Anyway...



Syzygy said:


> This practically begs for a response. For a reality check, I refer to *A compendium of HR2x software problems*...
> 
> _It records my shows?_
> • Series Links are limited to 50
> ...


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Good thing for me is that I don't have a single one of these problems. I could address all of these for you as to why but I'm not sure it would be constructive.
> 
> Anyway...


I don't have these issues, either. My HR20 has been very bullet proof from day one, no matter what incarnation it has had. Karma?


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Good thing for me is that I don't have a single one of these problems. I could address all of these for you as to why but I'm not sure it would be constructive.





BubblePuppy said:


> I don't have these issues, either. My HR20 has been very bullet proof from day one, no matter what incarnation it has had. Karma?


So you guys don't have Series Links limited to 50? Or PPV and VOD showing up in searches? And closed captioning stays on when you fast forward? That's curious.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

whitepelican said:


> So you guys don't have Series Links limited to 50? Or PPV and VOD showing up in searches? And closed captioning stays on when you fast forward? That's curious.


The 50 limit of SL hasn't been a issue for me. Every instance of my search shows up, I pick the one I want, so not an issue. Closed caption does not stay on in FF/RW nor pause, so not an issue. And even if CC stayed on during trick play use it wouldn't be a issue, can't imagine why it would be a issue. I wouldn't care one way or another.

So all of the above are not issues for me.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

BubblePuppy said:


> The 50 limit of SL hasn't been a issue for me. Every instance of my search shows up, I pick the one I want, so not an issue. Closed caption does not stay on in FF/RW nor pause, so not an issue.
> 
> So all of the above are not issues for me.


With all due respect, I don't really buy this argument.

My RX7 convertible sometimes won't start because there is a phantom electrical drain, but this is never a problem for me because I can (i) jump it or (ii) easily get a cab where I live. However, that doesn't exactly make a 20 year old sports car a dependable daily driver. It just means I put up with a lot of continuing problems because I have an emotional attachment to it.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

BubblePuppy said:


> The 50 limit of SL hasn't been a issue for me. Every instance of my search shows up, I pick the one I want, so not an issue. Closed caption does not stay on in FF/RW nor pause, so not an issue. And even if CC stayed on during trick play use it wouldn't be a issue, can't imagine why it would be a issue. I wouldn't care one way or another.
> 
> So all of the above are not issues for me.





Nicholsen said:


> With all due respect, I don't really buy this argument.
> 
> My RX7 convertible sometimes won't start because there is a phantom electrical drain, but this is never a problem for me because I can (i) jump it or (ii) easily get a cab where I live. However, that doesn't exactly make a 20 year old sports car a dependable daily driver. It just means I put up with a lot of continuing problems because I have an emotional attachment to it.


I don't think that's really a good analogy. I think a better anaolgy would be a car that doesn't have a cigarette lighter. Potentially big issue for a smoker, or someone who wanted to use and adapter to plug something in. If you dont' have a need for it, however, it's not really a problem.

I would classify these as unavailable features, rather than software "problem".


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Nicholsen said:


> *With all due respect, I don't really buy this argument.*
> 
> My RX7 convertible sometimes won't start because there is a phantom electrical drain, but this is never a problem for me because I can (i) jump it or (ii) easily get a cab where I live. However, that doesn't exactly make a 20 year old sports car a dependable daily driver. It just means I put up with a lot of continuing problems because I have an emotional attachment to it.





DogLover said:


> I don't think that's really a good analogy. I think a better anaolgy would be a car that doesn't have a cigarette lighter. Potentially big issue for a smoker, or someone who wanted to use and adapter to plug something in. If you dont' have a need for it, however, it's not really a problem.
> 
> I would classify these as unavailable features, rather than software "problem".


Nicholsen, I don't care if you buy it or not, that is a non-issue for me as well. In my world all those items I posted are not a problem for ME.

Problems that you may be having with your car is a big issue for you, but a non-issue for me. That is my point. DogLover stated it well in his post.


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## BillyT2008 (Mar 26, 2008)

BubblePuppy said:


> Which part of your post did "in my humble opinion" refer to? That was a harsh opening statement, in my not so humble opinion. Just a thought, but you might want to tone down any criticism you may have about someone else's preferences and taste.


The problem with the world is everyone takes everything so seriously and no one can seem to lighten up any more. It's sad. Oh well... 

Oh Lord it's hard to be humble...
When you're perfect in every way...
Each time I look in the mirror...
I get better looking each day...
To know me is to love me...
I must be a hell of a man...
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble...
But, I'm doing the best that I can.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

BillyT2008 said:


> The problem with the world is EVERYONE takes everything so seriously and no one can seem to lighten up any more. It's sad. Oh well...


 Not everyone. I don't take you seriously at all.:lol::icon_peac


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

This is a religious argument. Neither side will convince the other, so why bother?


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Hey, I meant the "with respect" seriously.

A lot of my "practical" friends give me serious grief about my car. As far as I am concerned, it is perfect it all respects. What do they know?


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Hey, I meant the "with respect" seriously.
> 
> A lot of my "practical" friends give me serious grief about my car. As far as I am concerned, it is perfect it all respects. What do they know?


I had an RX-7 for about 6 months back in '99. The rotary engine sure was something.


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## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Yeah, the RX7 is a lot of fun, Huge RPMs, lots of power, light weight. Good street reaction.

I suspect their is a lot of overlap between DBS subscribers and rotary engine drivers. Takes more time to figure it all out, but worth it in the end.


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## cthomp21 (Oct 9, 2008)

Nicholsen said:


> Yeah, the RX7 is a lot of fun, Huge RPMs, lots of power, light weight. Good street reaction.
> 
> I suspect their is a lot of overlap between DBS subscribers and rotary engine drivers. Takes more time to figure it all out, but worth it in the end.


Count me in here with my '93 RX-7.

Sold it after our first kid was born.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

whitepelican said:


> So you guys don't have Series Links limited to 50? Or PPV and VOD showing up in searches? And closed captioning stays on when you fast forward? That's curious.


Sighhhh. Ok, if you must I'll address each issue. Many of them are because it just plain doesn't effect me. Doesn't mean it doesn't effect others. Again, just because something doesn't effect me doesn't mean it's not a problem. But *YOU* need to also realize that just because there is a problem for you doesn't mean that it's a problem for everyone.

In short to your three issues above: 1) Don't have over 50 series links 2) No, VOD or PPV don't show up in my searches since I limit the channel range so they don't show up and 3) Don't use closed captioning.



Syzygy said:


> This practically begs for a response. For a reality check, I refer to *A compendium of HR2x software problems*...
> 
> _It records my shows?_
> • Series Links are limited to 50
> ...


So again, deny all you want but for many people these are not issues. For you obviously it is.


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## whitepelican (May 9, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> So again, deny all you want but for many people these are not issues. For you obviously it is.


What percentage of the overall HR2x users do you suppose know about the boolean search keywords? I'm guessing it's way less than 1%. And since that is the only way to prevent VOD, PPV and programs from channels you don't receive coming up in searches, I would say that that is definitely a problem for the majority of HR2x users. The fact that you know "the trick" around it doesn't mean that the thing isn't fundamentally flawed.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

whitepelican said:


> What percentage of the overall HR2x users do you suppose know about the boolean search keywords? I'm guessing it's way less than 1%. And since that is the only way to prevent VOD, PPV and programs from channels you don't receive coming up in searches, I would say that that is definitely a problem for the majority of HR2x users. The fact that you know "the trick" around it doesn't mean that the thing isn't fundamentally flawed.


How do you know people don't want to see VOD or PPV in searches? Now, I will argue that searches should go against (a correctly managed) Channels I Get list. I will argue that there should be a way to group show titles in search results (keyword search, but titles grouped to avoid the 78 showings of the same show in the results). But if you receive a channel and it does not get filtered out by parental controls, it should be part of the results. To do it any other way would be considered a bug by most consumers.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

whitepelican said:


> What percentage of the overall HR2x users do you suppose know about the boolean search keywords? I'm guessing it's way less than 1%. And since that is the only way to prevent VOD, PPV and programs from channels you don't receive coming up in searches, I would say that that is definitely a problem for the majority of HR2x users. The fact that you know "the trick" around it doesn't mean that the thing isn't fundamentally flawed.


I was simply pointing out that yes, I have not had any of the problems in that list. Others obviously may. Do you not get that concept? You asked the question for crying out loud.  

Also, you are assuming people wouldn't want to see VOD or PPV in their searches. If I'm doing a search on Mythbusters (which I did once) it was kinda cool to see VOD matches for some behind the scenes stuff. I would have never known they were there if VOD wasn't included in searches.

Also, if I'm searching for a particular actor, would it not make sense I might want to know that actor is in a movie that's on PPV right now?

Anyway, I have championed since the beginning to have searches go against a custom channel list like Tivo does. But that doesn't change the fact that I don't have the problems listed in that post which I responded to.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

gregjones said:


> How do you know people don't want to see VOD or PPV in searches? Now, I will argue that searches should go against (a correctly managed) Channels I Get list. I will argue that there should be a way to group show titles in search results (keyword search, but titles grouped to avoid the 78 showings of the same show in the results). But if you receive a channel and it does not get filtered out by parental controls, it should be part of the results. To do it any other way would be considered a bug by most consumers.


hm, since all can get PPV would those not be included in a "channels I get Search". Seems logical since you do recieve the channels and are capable of viewing them. Far as VOD, not sure either, if you have VOD capable, they are technically channels you get also. So it appears to be working looking at it from the logical point of view


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> • Press-and-hold functions sometimes engage when you least expect it
> *Never use press and hold functions, no need for them.*
> • The progress bar shows a recording as complete no matter how much of it was lost to rain fade
> *Don't really care. Never been an issue.*


These two, at least, I can (and should) argue about.

Even someone who never uses press and hold functions will have them accidentally engage from time to time if they press a key twice in quick succession. Symptoms: You press Play twice quickly, and get Slo-mo instead of what you expect. Or you press Skip twice or more, and find yourself suddenly at the end or the start of a recording.

Everyone experiences rain fade. But with the HR2x you can't tell if you're watching a partial recording unless you watch it all the way through. By then the time may be past where you can record another showing.

In the first case, you may be wrongly blaming yourself ("operator error").

In the second case, you may have a very high tolerance for frustration.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

gregjones said:


> How do you know people don't want to see VOD or PPV in searches? Now, I will argue that searches should go against (a correctly managed) Channels I Get list. I will argue that there should be a way to group show titles in search results (keyword search, but titles grouped to avoid the 78 showings of the same show in the results). But if you receive a channel *and it does not get filtered out by parental controls*, it should be part of the results. To do it any other way would be considered a bug by most consumers.


I can agree with your penultimate sentence if amended:

_"But if you receive a channel *and it does not get filtered out by parental controls or the user's own list of Channels I Want*, it should be part of the results."_


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> These two, at least, I can (and should) argue about.
> 
> Even someone who never uses press and hold functions will have them accidentally engage from time to time if they press a key twice in quick succession. Symptoms: You press Play twice quickly, and get Slo-mo instead of what you expect. Or you press Skip twice or more, and find yourself suddenly at the end or the start of a recording.


Not an issue for me. DirecTV remote is in my "remote graveyard", use an MX-700 so "press and hold" isn't anything I could accidentally activate either. If I could I never have in 3 years of use.

But like I said, certainly could be a problem for others, but it isn't for me.



> Everyone experiences rain fade. But with the HR2x you can't tell if you're watching a partial recording unless you watch it all the way through. By then the time may be past where you can record another showing.
> 
> In the first case, you may be wrongly blaming yourself ("operator error").
> 
> In the second case, you may have a very high tolerance for frustration.


Well, if it's past where I could record another showing I'm not sure how the HR2x is at fault. Tivo wouldn't help me any more. I think I've run across a partial recording due to rain fade 2-3 times in 3 years. When it happens it's usually well beyond when I could catch another showing. So Hulu it is to finish up the missing part.

Again, nothing either Tivo or HR2x could do to help in this situation. I guess if I see right away that the recording is partial I could save time by not watching it at all. But even so we'd watch as much as we could on the big screen and finish it up online later.

Again, it hasn't been an issue for us. Rarely get rain fade anyway.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> ... Well, if it's past where I could record another showing [of a partial recording] I'm not sure how the HR2x is at fault. TiVo wouldn't help me any more. I think I've run across a partial recording due to rain fade 2-3 times in 3 years...


TiVo's progress bar reflects exactly how long the recording is. You might happen to peek at the show before you actually watch it.

2 minutes of rain fade? You'll see a little non-green section at the right end of the progress bar. You may decide to watch the show anyway. 15 minutes of rain fade? You'll see a progress bar that's three-fourths green. You might want to skip that recording.

P.S.
I never ever watch TV online. The small screen and internet streaming sucks for TV.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

I've had this several times. If it has 2 things to record, I'll even say skip both and it will STILL dump me out of a live show to record the "third" one in the prioritizer... it must basically be saying, "i've got 4 things to do, and you just cancelled 2 of em so you left me a plenty of tuners for the next 2!"

Sucks.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Syzygy said:


> TiVo's progress bar reflects exactly how long the recording is. You might happen to peek at the show before you actually watch it.
> 
> 2 minutes of rain fade? You'll see a little non-green section at the right end of the progress bar. You may decide to watch the show anyway. 15 minutes of rain fade? You'll see a progress bar that's three-fourths green. You might want to skip that recording.
> 
> ...


You need a new monitor for your computer  30" for the main one is a good start...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> TiVo's progress bar reflects exactly how long the recording is. You might happen to peek at the show before you actually watch it.
> 
> 2 minutes of rain fade? You'll see a little non-green section at the right end of the progress bar. You may decide to watch the show anyway. 15 minutes of rain fade? You'll see a progress bar that's three-fourths green. You might want to skip that recording.
> 
> ...


I understand what Tivo does. But you're not quite understanding my point.

So say it's a recording of Fringe on Fox (or pick your fav network show). It won't be broadcast again. So you're saying that because you notice a few minutes are missing you won't watch it at all and just delete it? And you won't watch it online either? So you'll just miss the show completely i guess.

So what I'll do is watch it on the DVR anyway, in full HD. Say I get 30 minutes in before rain fade killed it. At least I got 30 minutes in. Then I'll just fire up Hulu and catch the rest online. Certainly not my first choice but at least I got to watch my show vs missing it.

Just because it's only a partial recording doesn't mean I'm just going to delete it and miss my show.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> I understand what Tivo does. But you're not quite understanding my point...


You're ignoring _my_ point. _Fringe_ is a bad example. What about _Law & Order: Criminal Intent_ or _The Closer_ or any other cable show that's often repeated? If you're early enough in finding out that the recording is only partial, you can get another copy. That's all.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Syzygy said:


> You're ignoring _my_ point. _Fringe_ is a bad example. What about _Law & Order: Criminal Intent_ or _The Closer_ or any other cable show that's often repeated? If you're early enough in finding out that the recording is only partial, you can get another copy. That's all.


More information to the users is generally better. Knowing that a recording is essentially partial, where the break occurs, and how long is very helpful information.

It would be really cool if the HR2x and the TiVos automatically picked up the next showing of an oft repeated show for us in the case of a partial.

Cheers,
Tom


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> You're ignoring _my_ point. _Fringe_ is a bad example. What about _Law & Order: Criminal Intent_ or _The Closer_ or any other cable show that's often repeated? If you're early enough in finding out that the recording is only partial, you can get another copy. That's all.


No, I get that. Cable shows you're probably ok with later showings. Network shows, not so much. Cable shows don't help either if you watch things a week or two later.

Look, it would be great if there was some indication of a partial. And now that I think about it when you bring up the program in the playlist I do believe it says (partial) if it's not a full program so I could just delete it right there before even starting it. BUT YOU ASKED and I answered that this is not a problem FOR ME. Got it? I only answered what you asked.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> It would be really cool if the HR2x and the TiVos automatically picked up the next showing of an oft repeated show for us in the case of a partial.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Actually, Tom, I have had this happen.. and recently too.. My power went out, and it didn't catch the full episode of, I believe Dark Blue on TNT, so it recorded it when it was on again latter that night after power came back up... SO maybe this is happening.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Actually, Tom, I have had this happen.. and recently too.. My power went out, and it didn't catch the full episode of, I believe Dark Blue on TNT, so it recorded it when it was on again latter that night after power came back up... SO maybe this is happening.


I'm thinking that may be because the power was out and it knew it was a partial. I have seen "partial" on recordings, but only when the power was out or I did a reboot.

I have never seen any indication of partial when it was just rain fade (or any sort of signal failure).


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## DaHound (Nov 20, 2006)

I really miss the ability to do a thumbs up to record a program being advertised that Tivo had. Sure was handy!


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Syzygy said:


> I can agree with your penultimate sentence if amended:
> 
> _"But if you receive a channel *and it does not get filtered out by parental controls or the user's own list of Channels I Want*, it should be part of the results."_


But that makes it a wishlist item, not a comment on functionality.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

DaHound said:


> I really miss the ability to do a thumbs up to record a program being advertised that Tivo had. Sure was handy!


Really? Over the 7 years I had several Tivo's I only saw that 3 or 4 times. It was a cool feature that channels and advertisers basically never used.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

gregjones said:


> But that makes it a wishlist item, not a comment on functionality.


Sorry, I was responding to the "should" in your statement. Perhaps "will" -- or, better, "is supposed to" -- would have made more sense in your context.


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## Syzygy (Dec 5, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> Really? Over the 7 years I had several Tivo's I only saw that [thumbs up to record a program being advertised] 3 or 4 times. It was a cool feature that channels and advertisers basically never used.


I saw it dozens of times, maybe because I watched NBC a lot. But I must admit that I only acted on it (pressed Thumbs Up) twice in more than 5 years. At other times I found the Thumbs Up icon to be persistent (because trick play interfered), requiring me to press Clear to dismiss it.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Syzygy said:


> I saw it dozens of times, maybe because I watched NBC a lot. But I must admit that I only acted on it (pressed Thumbs Up) twice in more than 5 years. At other times I found the Thumbs Up icon to be persistent (because trick play interfered), requiring me to press Clear to dismiss it.


Yea, if I remember correctly NBC and Showtime signed up for it but nobody else. And a few commercials here and there as well. But it was pretty rare site indeed. I like the technology in principle, just haven't been able to deliver on it.


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