# For the love of God!!! HR24 audio dropouts



## double (Sep 12, 2006)

WTF!!!! I cant take it anymore. I just searched the forum and I am seeing posts back to 2010 about the issue. I lived with it since i got my HR-24 in late 2010 because i always thought it was my POS Onkyo TX-SR606 surround receiver. I upgraded to a Yamaha RX-A820 and what do you know......still a problem. There is no rhyme or reason. live, recorded, no particular frequency. 2 freaking years with the smae problem? WOW! I have been a Direct customer for 13 years, i think i deserve a little better than this. is this still an issue for the HR-24 for most? Is it an issue for the HR34? I want to upgrade to an HR-34, but not interested if it also suffers from the issue.


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

I have two HR24's and one HR21. I have the occasional audio dropout on all three. By occasional, I mean several during a night's viewing. My signal strength is strong, so I have assumed it's just the DTV signal.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

JerryMeeker said:


> I have two HR24's and one HR21. I have the occasional audio dropout on all three. By occasional, I mean several during a night's viewing. My signal strength is strong, so I have assumed it's just the DTV signal.


I find this a lot on my HR23 on CBS, FOX, ESPN AND GOLF Channels.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jimmie57 said:


> I find this a lot on my HR23 on CBS, FOX, ESPN AND GOLF Channels.


Indeed.

Assuming every audio drop is an HD DVR, DirecTV transmission, or connection issue is a mistake.

While audio is quite clean 99% + of the time...there are still occasional hiccups in the audio transmitted by networks and indivisual channels.

The best audio equipment in the world cannot compensate for an audio "hiccup" coming from the source or lost along the transmission path.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

All HD stuff exhibits this, on every provider I have ever witnessed.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

It does seem worse with Dolby on, and some AV receivers handle it better than others. It would make my Onkyo click. Still happens on occasion with my Denon, but without clicking. I haven't watched it in a few seasons but I swore it was worst with a particular program on History.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

HR-24/500-It seams that model (500) may have more issues than any other HR receiver in the fleet.

If you search on the 500 series you will find a bunch of different strange happenings.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

mine happens all of the time. when it happens, it is for a duration of 1-12 seconds. the frequency just completely varies. sometimes an hour can go by with nothing, sometimes it can happen 3-4 times in a half hour show. all that is required to "fix" it is to pause then play.


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## BAHitman (Oct 24, 2007)

I notice it on occasion, but it is usually in the recording as when I back it up, it is there so I don't blame the DVR, I blame the source. sometimes I can even see a video hickup in my locals... 

I have seen it at friends house with TWC also so I don't think it's necessarily a DirecTV problem...


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

double said:


> WTF!!!! I cant take it anymore. I just searched the forum and I am seeing posts back to 2010 about the issue. I lived with it since i got my HR-24 in late 2010 because i always thought it was my POS Onkyo TX-SR606 surround receiver. I upgraded to a Yamaha RX-A820 and what do you know......still a problem. There is no rhyme or reason. live, recorded, no particular frequency. 2 freaking years with the smae problem? WOW! I have been a Direct customer for 13 years, i think i deserve a little better than this. is this still an issue for the HR-24 for most? Is it an issue for the HR34? I want to upgrade to an HR-34, but not interested if it also suffers from the issue.


Better to look for cause rather than to blame.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> It does seem worse with Dolby on, and some AV receivers handle it better than others. It would make my Onkyo click. Still happens on occasion with my Denon, but without clicking. I haven't watched it in a few seasons but I swore it was worst with a particular program on History.


I've got 2 Sony AVs and a Sammy AV and none of them click or have audio dropouts that I would blame on D* or the units themselves. I do hear some crap on Fox from time to time, heard it on the playoffs this weekend. That I'd blame on Fox. I still find it hard to believe that Fox still broadcasts in 720p. With that in mind, I'm not surprised to hear strange noises from their broadcasts.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BAHitman said:


> I notice it on occasion, but it is usually in the recording as when I back it up, it is there so I don't blame the DVR, I blame the source. sometimes I can even see a video hickup in my locals...
> 
> I have seen it at friends house with TWC also so I don't think it's necessarily a DirecTV problem...


It's usually a broadcast problem.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Better to look for cause rather than to blame.


You ever hear anything like that on your Sonys?

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

double said:


> I lived with it since i got my HR-24 in late 2010 because i always thought it was my POS Onkyo TX-SR606 surround receiver. I upgraded to a Yamaha RX-A820 and what do you know......still a problem


Your sig. line indicates you're going HDMI direct to the TVs. Is that correct?


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Better to look for cause rather than to blame.


huh? i pay them $200 a month! I shouldn't have to do anything whatsoever, but turn it on and enjoy. This problem has been present for almost two years or more!!!!!!! It is time for blame now! I have no problem with slight audio dropouts during channel changing or during FF RWD sessions, but this is ridiculous! I am about to throw a major *****fest. None of my other boxes do this, they might have some of the standard anomolies, but not like this.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

double said:


> huh? i pay them $200 a month! I shouldn't have to do anything whatsoever, but turn it on and enjoy. This problem has been present for almost two years or more!!!!!!! It is time for blame now! I have no problem with slight audio dropouts during channel changing or during FF RWD sessions, but this is ridiculous! I am about to throw a major *****fest. None of my other boxes do this, they might have some of the standard anomolies, but not like this.


I'm not sure what is going on with your 24, but my HR24-500 doesn't have these.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

double said:


> huh? i pay them $200 a month! I shouldn't have to do anything whatsoever, but turn it on and enjoy. This problem has been present for almost two years or more!!!!!!! It is time for blame now! I have no problem with slight audio dropouts during channel changing or during FF RWD sessions, but this is ridiculous! I am about to throw a major *****fest. None of my other boxes do this, they might have some of the standard anomolies, but not like this.


It appears you are referencing a specific issue with a specific HR24 HD DVR. As you have seen, others with HR24 units have not shared your experience.

In your case...and assuming there are *no other issues *that you've checked with connectors *and/or *cables on your HR24 *and/or *your Yamaha AVR...then you've likely checked the primary things *you can check *on your end.

It's not impossible that there may be an issue with either the HR24 itself or else the audio driver in the firmware to your specific model Yamaha AVR.

My recommendation is that you e-mail DirecTV support, share all the details of what you've checked and the specific model information of all your equipment...and let them recommend how they might solve your issue.

There could be a number of things leading to your experience, so it becomes somewhat of a process-of-elimination path to follow.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

double said:


> huh? i pay them $200 a month! I shouldn't have to do anything whatsoever, but turn it on and enjoy. This problem has been present for almost two years or more!!!!!!! It is time for blame now! I have no problem with slight audio dropouts during channel changing or during FF RWD sessions, but this is ridiculous! I am about to throw a major *****fest. None of my other boxes do this, they might have some of the standard anomolies, but not like this.


This probably won't help you much, but I think the 24-500s are one of the very best DVRs and one of the wackiest. I have six of them and they certainly are interesting at times. You might have one that has gone from wacky to shot. Might be time to consider swapping it out. I had to replace a couple of them, they just went nutz. Happens. Happens with all of them. They'll usually give you a 24 for a 24.

Rich


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

double said:


> huh? i pay them $200 a month! I shouldn't have to do anything whatsoever, but turn it on and enjoy. This problem has been present for almost two years or more!!!!!!! It is time for blame now! I have no problem with slight audio dropouts during channel changing or during FF RWD sessions, but this is ridiculous! I am about to throw a major *****fest. None of my other boxes do this, they might have some of the standard anomolies, but not like this.


Not doubting your issues. However, I as well as others who have HR24-500s are not experiencing what you are. Again, ldentify the cause before you blame.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Rich said:


> You ever hear anything like that on your Sonys?
> 
> Rich


No.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

guys, let me preface this with what i do and the level of knowledge i have. I am in the custom electronic installation business. I have owned my business for 15 years now. We work almost exclusively in very high end homes with our average system cost of $50k and our current largest project of $350k is completing as we speak. I am not a dealer for directv, but have put up 100 dishes and hundreds of receivers over my 15 year career. For the last 8 years, out of 100s of clients, I have had two that did not get Direct. I am intimately familiar with the workings of direct. 

This problem is definitely exclusive to the HR24 boxes in my opinion. This is completely different from every other anomaly that other HR boxes experience in relation to audio. I have searched and found hundreds of other posts in relation to this problem with the HR24. I lived with it for so long because I havent had the time or the want to get to the bottom of it. I am always swapping, exchanging, loaning equipment so we always have a mish mash of equipment in our rack at home. I had a client give us an Onkyo TXSR606 with bad hdmi board. we used it for optical audio and it did the drop out constantly. i always chocked it up to the absolute POS onkyo. i sent the 606 for repair to onkyo and got it back with functioning hdmi. still did it. again i chocked it to the onkyo. my solution was to always turn DD off. as busy as my family has been, we never really thought of it much.

as the holidays approached and i got stuck with a UN55ES7500 left over from job, i decided to redo my entire system. Yamaha RX-A820, BD-S673, B&W speakers sub, etc. finally (after yearsof 80-90% complete) got the Crestron control system up and running with dimmers, thermostat, etc. ready for a month long family fest with family in and out for over a month. 

what do you know..... it still did it! tried the blu-ray, works perfectly. tried one of the older HR boxes, perfect. it is the HR-24. i wouldnt mind leaving the older HR box in the rack for the main system, but the 24 is so much better! it is snappier for sure. I have been a premium subscribing customer for 13 years, i deserve to have this rectified.

in all fairness to directv, i havnt called them once to discuss. like i said it was never really a big problem until i actually thought about it, then life takes over again and i would forget until the next time i thought about it. now all of this time has gone by and i just want it fixed. above all, i am really shocked to see that the issue was well documented as far as 2010 and is still a problem!! crazy.

also, i am not sure if it would exhibit this directly connected to tv vs through A/V receiver. might try that tonight!


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> It does seem worse with Dolby on, and some AV receivers handle it better than others. It would make my Onkyo click. Still happens on occasion with my Denon, but without clicking. I haven't watched it in a few seasons but I swore it was worst with a particular program on History.


I think that is the key; interopability with consumer equipment. When DD was designed it was not really envisioned for transport via sat or terrestrial, but was for closed systems like laserdisk, etc. They never really put any error correction in it. DVB, QAM, and ASTC add forward error correction, but that is sort of tacked-on rather than designed for DD from the ground up, so is not all that robust.

In a world where they try to compress as much as possible and cram as much info into a stream as is possible, the ability for errors to creep in is near the hairy edge. Also, any digital transmission is never totally error-free, even with error correction. A "perfect" stream still averages one glitch a day. A good stream averages one every hour or two, an acceptable one averages one every minute or two, and a poor one averages more than one glitch per minute, if you look at this from a QoS standpoint.

That implies that peaking your alignment may reduce the issue. And that QoS standard applies to the video; DD may manifest more errors for a particular "acceptable" level of video delivery quality.

There is also the factor that while PCM/analog audio is exceptionally reliable in a HTS, DD is often not. This has partly to do with the fact that dropped audio frames can cause clicking and muting for digital, while that just won't happen with PCM/analog. This means that you have to have a visible video glitch to have a concurrent audio dropout if you are using PCM/analog, while if using DD into a AVR, you can have minor glitches that don't even manifest in video but still might mute or click the DD.

It is also similar to the handshake for HDMI; both ends of a DD connection have to be clocked perfectly all the time, or there will be mutes or clicks. But that system once again is not all that robust; once HDMI locks, it pretty much stays locked, but DD can drift in and out of lock more often than it really should. It's not a great system for a HTS application, but then it is what it is.

And here is what points away from the sat transmission and reception, and towards the DD link to your AVR as being where the problem most likely is, is that the only audio sent to your DVR is DD; the PCM/analog outputs are derived from a 2.0 downmix from that 5.1 source. If the analog audio is OK, the DD audio must be nearly as OK _up to that point_. The DD link outbound from there to the AVR is typically where we see the problems.

About all you can do is have the newest firmware in your AVR (Denon and Onkyo used to be the worst offenders in DD issues, but newer firmware fixes a lot of that). Or use PCM/analog, which drops out much more rarely for DVB delivery.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> No.


it definitely happens to the sonys. in fact. im pretty sure it was VOS who sent his sony AVR to direct to test in 2010. it is actually pretty well documented on the webs.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

double said:


> This problem is definitely exclusive to the HR24 boxes in my opinion. This is completely different from every other anomaly that other HR boxes experience in relation to audio. ......
> ..... ! tried the blu-ray, works perfectly. tried one of the older HR boxes, perfect. it is the HR-24.
> 
> ...in all fairness to directv, i haven't called them once to discuss. like i said it was never really a big problem until i actually thought about it, then life takes over again and i would forget until the next time i thought about it. now all of this time has gone by and i just want it fixed. above all, i am really shocked to see that the issue was well documented as far as 2010 and is still a problem!! crazy.


It's a bit of a struggle to empathize with your plight when DirecTV themselves has not yet been contacted to resolve the problem. It's also safe to assume that jumping up and down in frustration doesn't fix much.

Based on your added information, it would seem that the time would be best spent having a conversation with the technical area of DirecTV - your solution may be as simple as them providing a replacement HD DVR.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

double said:


> it definitely happens to the sonys. in fact. im pretty sure it was VOS who sent his sony AVR to direct to test in 2010. it is actually pretty well documented on the webs.


Yes, I did and the problem, which wasn't anywhere near as bad as you've posted, was addressed in a software update "way back then".

Dolby has had problems with the encoders used in the uplink, but for the most part, this has finally been addressed too.

To have the level of dropouts you seem to be having, "just isn't normal", and I say this with the amp that was used to find the problem back then.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

double said:


> also, i am not sure if it would exhibit this directly connected to tv vs through A/V receiver. might try that tonight!


Bingo! What I was getting at in my previous question of you. Certainly a mode to try.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's a bit of a struggle to empathize with your plight when DirecTV themselves has not yet been contacted to resolve the problem. It's also safe to assume that jumping up and down in frustration doesn't fix much.
> 
> Based on your added information, it would seem that the time would be best spent having a conversation with the technical area of DirecTV - your solution may be as simple as them providing a replacement HD DVR.


i completely understand what you are saying, but it is a widely known problem, even to this day. obviously they will probably replace as i have done extensive diagnostics with it in the current system. different hdmi cables, different AVRs, different displays. it was connected to a Vidikron VL52 52" LCD until about 2 months ago. one thing for sure is that it is DEFINITELY a Dolby Digital problem. I don't think this problem would ever rear its head connected directly to TV via HDMI. TVs do not decode audio in Dolby Digital. Even if you have turned on DD in the HR menu, the TV via, EDID (enhanced display identification data) tells the HR to send the stereo PCM stream.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

double said:


> i completely understand what you are saying, but *it is a widely known problem, even to this day*. obviously they will probably replace as i have done extensive diagnostics with it in the current system. different hdmi cables, different AVRs, different displays. it was connected to a Vidikron VL52 52" LCD until about 2 months ago. one thing for sure is that it is DEFINITELY a Dolby Digital problem. I don't think this problem would ever rear its head connected directly to TV via HDMI. TVs do not decode audio in Dolby Digital. Even if you have turned on DD in the HR menu, the TV via, EDID (enhanced display identification data) tells the HR to send the stereo PCM stream.


For a "widely known problem" it sure hasn't been reported by many folks...

...and you have admittedly chosen not to go through the logical process of reporting it to DirecTV either for a replacement. Good luck on a solution following that course.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> For a "widely known problem" it sure hasn't been reported by many folks...
> 
> ...and you have admittedly chosen not to go through the logical process of reporting it to DirecTV either for a replacement. Good luck on a solution following that course.


LMGTFY

and as well as here

http://www.dbstalk.com/search.php?searchid=9220350

also, after having directv for 13 years and dealing with the installation of hundreds of systems, my process is way more logical than your suggestion!! I think hundreds of members here would agree with me that I have gotten MUCH BETTER help here and for MUCH LESS time involved!! I was simply coming here to ask if this was still an issue. It was DEFINITELY an issue and looks like some people are still experiencing issues. From what VOS has said, he thinks it was an issue that was addressed a while back, so after arming myself with some good info, I can now proceed with calling directv, going through a long list of stuff they want me to try, then who knows what to actually resolve. It is actually surprising to see someone here on the best source for DTV info so anxious to call tech support!! Good luck to you on your endeavors as well!!


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

double said:


> ...TVs do not decode audio in Dolby Digital...


Well, sure they do. I apologize if I lifted this out of context, but I am unclear as to what the context is. It may also be beside the real point you are making, but if so still threatens the clarity of that point.

A little more accurately, they decode _from _DD. Every TV with an ATSC tuner must by definition be able to decode DD, because that is essentially AC-3, which is what the audio is sent as. DD also permeates all the way through to DVB/DBS delivery, and in that case is decoded in the DBS STB or DVR, and/or extracted there and decoded in a connected TV or AVR.

So I'm not sure what you might be referring to; but all modern TVs can decode DD; they have to.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Well, sure they do. I apologize if I lifted this out of context, but I am unclear as to what the context is. It may also be beside the real point you are making, but if so still threatens the clarity of that point.
> 
> A little more accurately, they decode _from _DD. Every TV with an ATSC tuner must by definition be able to decode DD, because that is essentially AC-3, which is what the audio is sent as. DD also permeates all the way through to DVB/DBS delivery, and in that case is decoded in the DBS STB or DVR, and/or extracted there and decoded in a connected TV or AVR.
> 
> So I'm not sure what you might be referring to; but all modern TVs can decode DD; they have to.


you are correct, TVs can decode DD on the ATSC tuner, this is a function of the tuner! BUT, NO TV decodes DD on an HDMI input. TVs are stereo devices. The EDID on every TV tells the source to send stereo at whatever bitrate it supports.

Also to go even further, most TVs do not pass DD through an HDMI input to the optical digital output of the TV. When you are on an HDMI input of any Samsung TV, go to sound menu and try to change the SPDIF output format to DD or DTS, you cant, they are grayed out. The DD and DTS options are only available for built in tuner and streaming apps. This is what sucks about adding a Surround bar like the B&W Panorama to a TV that has HDMI sources. what could be as easy as running a single optical cable from TV to bar wont get you 5.1 sound to the bar. You have to run optical or coaxial digital from each source to the bar.


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## carillon (Nov 15, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Bingo! What I was getting at in my previous question of you. Certainly a mode to try.


Yes, I think several of us would be interested in finding out if the audio drops happen with the HR24 connected to the TV and bypassing your AVR. My HR24-500 had sporadic issues with audio drops when connected to my Denon AVR via HDMI.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> For a "widely known problem" it sure hasn't been reported by many folks...
> 
> ...and you have admittedly chosen not to go through the logical process of reporting it to DirecTV either for a replacement. Good luck on a solution following that course.


+1......Usually when there is a widely known problem with a product the manufacturer recalls, repairs, or replaces the product. This is clearly not the case. It's a isolated issue. The logical step for the OP would have been to first trouble shoot the issue, then contact DirecTV if trouble shooting failed to resolve the issue. Instead the OP chose to come here to blame and complain. Perhaps it would be best if we simply offer him a crying towel.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

double said:


> also, after having directv for 13 years and dealing with the installation of hundreds of systems, my process is way more logical than your suggestion!! I think hundreds of members here would agree with me that I have gotten MUCH BETTER help here and for MUCH LESS time involved!!


Then again.....that's not the original issue you posted.

There still is no validation shown of a wide-ranging problem as reported in the original post. There were some early firmware issues as ith any new device, and isolated cases of *certain models *of *certain manufacturers* having Dolby-related hiccups primarily linked to drivers to support those AVRs. Testimony of other HR24 users NOT have the issue further substantiates this as an isolated issue.


MysteryMan said:


> +1......Usually when there is a widely known problem with a product the manufacturer recalls, repairs, or replaces the product. This is clearly not the case. It's a isolated issue. The logical step for the OP would have been to first trouble shoot the issue, then contact DirecTV if trouble shooting failed to resolve the issue.


Had that course been followed, the OP likely already would have a replacement unit by now and the problem resolved. I also read nothing about replacement cables being substituted to validate that cables/connections could be eliminated as a source of the problem....diagnostics 101.

As stated earlier, following a process of elimination path to get to the root cause is the only way to resolve the issue. At this point, complaining without logically attempting to resolve the matter is just complaining.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Double, did you miss the post about it happens on some HD sources from EVERY PROVIDER?

I'm not trying to defend D* here, I'm saying, some of the issues are at the source. I believe someone else also pointed that out and you got a little "soapboxy" about it...your credentials aren't really any more impressive than many other very helpful posters here, so please don't think you're better equipped to troubleshoot or analyze it than others here. Many of us realize there is a long list of variables in the transmission chain, and its not as cut and dry as you may like to make it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

double said:


> you are correct, TVs can decode DD on the ATSC tuner, this is a function of the tuner! BUT, NO TV decodes DD on an HDMI input. TVs are stereo devices. The EDID on every TV tells the source to send stereo at whatever bitrate it supports.
> 
> Also to go even further, most TVs do not pass DD through an HDMI input to the optical digital output of the TV. When you are on an HDMI input of any Samsung TV, go to sound menu and try to change the SPDIF output format to DD or DTS, you cant, they are grayed out. The DD and DTS options are only available for built in tuner and streaming apps. This is what sucks about adding a Surround bar like the B&W Panorama to a TV that has HDMI sources. what could be as easy as running a single optical cable from TV to bar wont get you 5.1 sound to the bar. You have to run optical or coaxial digital from each source to the bar.


This is puzzling me. Have you actually hooked up another of your HRs to exactly the same cables and wiring that the 24-500 has on it? If the problem is with the 500 you would not hear the odd sounds you are hearing on another HR and your only issue then would be getting another 24 from D*. If the odd sounds are still heard on the HR replacing the 500, you've got a problem with the AV set. That's just about as simple as you can get. Have you done that?

You seem to be lashing out at the 500s as a group, even going to extent of taking *VOS's* lending D* (What, they couldn't buy one?) his Sony AV set completely out of context.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rich said:


> You seem to be lashing out at the 500s as a group, even going to extent of taking *VOS's* lending D* (What, they couldn't buy one?) his Sony AV set completely out of context.
> 
> Rich


Let me address this.
They did buy a Sony AVR and have it delivered to me as a loaner, so I could then send them mine for testing.
Why they wanted mine was it reacts very quickly to a loss of Dolby, so it makes it very easy to notice the problem, as the blue DD 5.1 light goes out/blinks, followed by the display scrolling as it reacquires the DD 5.1 signal.
The loaner they sent [a newer model] was actually less sensitive to the loss of Dolby, and didn't have the bright indicator light.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Let me address this.
> They did buy a Sony AVR and have it delivered to me as a loaner, so I could then send them mine for testing.
> Why they wanted mine was it reacts very quickly to a loss of Dolby, so it makes it very easy to notice the problem, as the blue DD 5.1 light goes out/blinks, followed by the display scrolling as it reacquires the DD 5.1 signal.
> The loaner they sent [a newer model] was actually less sensitive to the loss of Dolby, and didn't have the bright indicator light.


I've got one of those Sonys without the blue light. I think they only made one or two models like that, my newest Sony has the blue light again. I didn't know about the loaner (my apologies to anyone from D* that's reading this). I've been using Sony AV systems for years, mainly because I understand them, getting that model without a blue light really surprised me.

Rich


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again.....that's not the original issue you posted.


I have no idea what you mean by that! I have only spoke of one issue here. The loss of sound when on DD. A loss of sound that is COMPLETELY different than other KNOWN audio issues with both DTV and terrestrial TV services.

[/QUOTE]
There still is no validation shown of a wide-ranging problem as reported in the original post. There were some early firmware issues as ith any new device, and isolated cases of *certain models *of *certain manufacturers* having Dolby-related hiccups primarily linked to drivers to support those AVRs. Testimony of other HR24 users NOT have the issue further substantiates this as an isolated issue.[/QUOTE]

No validation? Did you look at anything that I posted? I didnt say wide ranging problem, I said known problem. It is or was KNOWN that the HR-24 had a unique problem in respect to audio dropouts. Also, there are no "drivers" for HDMI devices!! It isnt USB. Testimony of others that do not have the problem substantiates nothing!! That is hilarious! Are you saying that because no one has responded to my post with said problem, it doesnt exist? LOL, im not quite sure what to respond to that.

[/QUOTE]
Had that course been followed, the OP likely already would have a replacement unit by now and the problem resolved. I also read nothing about replacement cables being substituted to validate that cables/connections could be eliminated as a source of the problem....diagnostics 101.[/QUOTE]

WTF do you think I am doing? I have trouble shot. I came here to research and see if anyone else experienced this problem. Found that people still are, whether it is being experienced widely or not i didnt specify, but there are posts dated 2013 on the internet of people experiencing this. Also, reread my posts, i have tried numerous different brands of cables, three different receivers and two different TVs.

[/QUOTE]
As stated earlier, following a process of elimination path to get to the root cause is the only way to resolve the issue. At this point, complaining without logically attempting to resolve the matter is just complaining.[/QUOTE]

As stated earlier, that is exactly what I am doing!!! I regrettably made a pit stop here to pick the brains of other intelligent members (obviously not all) who for the most part know more than almost any CSR i have ever spoken with. I cant understand how you think my process is not logical. Are you implying that i was not ever going to call DTV to get it fixed? are you implying i was coming here to ***** and wait for a magical fix? oh well


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Heee's baaaaaack....


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

double said:


> I have no idea what you mean by that! I have only spoke of one issue here. The loss of sound when on DD. A loss of sound that is COMPLETELY different than other KNOWN audio issues with both DTV and terrestrial TV services.


There still is no validation shown of a wide-ranging problem as reported in the original post. There were some early firmware issues as ith any new device, and isolated cases of *certain models *of *certain manufacturers* having Dolby-related hiccups primarily linked to drivers to support those AVRs. Testimony of other HR24 users NOT have the issue further substantiates this as an isolated issue.[/QUOTE]

No validation? Did you look at anything that I posted? I didnt say wide ranging problem, I said known problem. It is or was KNOWN that the HR-24 had a unique problem in respect to audio dropouts. Also, there are no "drivers" for HDMI devices!! It isnt USB. Testimony of others that do not have the problem substantiates nothing!! That is hilarious! Are you saying that because no one has responded to my post with said problem, it doesnt exist? LOL, im not quite sure what to respond to that.

[/QUOTE]
Had that course been followed, the OP likely already would have a replacement unit by now and the problem resolved. I also read nothing about replacement cables being substituted to validate that cables/connections could be eliminated as a source of the problem....diagnostics 101.[/QUOTE]

WTF do you think I am doing? I have trouble shot. I came here to research and see if anyone else experienced this problem. Found that people still are, whether it is being experienced widely or not i didnt specify, but there are posts dated 2013 on the internet of people experiencing this. Also, reread my posts, i have tried numerous different brands of cables, three different receivers and two different TVs.

[/QUOTE]
As stated earlier, following a process of elimination path to get to the root cause is the only way to resolve the issue. At this point, complaining without logically attempting to resolve the matter is just complaining.[/QUOTE]

As stated earlier, that is exactly what I am doing!!! I regrettably made a pit stop here to pick the brains of other intelligent members (obviously not all) who for the most part know more than almost any CSR i have ever spoken with. I cant understand how you think my process is not logical. Are you implying that i was not ever going to call DTV to get it fixed? are you implying i was coming here to ***** and wait for a magical fix? oh well[/QUOTE]

Well, when are you going to call DirecTV? It's been two days since you started this thread.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> Double, did you miss the post about it happens on some HD sources from EVERY PROVIDER?
> 
> I'm not trying to defend D* here, I'm saying, some of the issues are at the source. I believe someone else also pointed that out and you got a little "soapboxy" about it...your credentials aren't really any more impressive than many other very helpful posters here, so please don't think you're better equipped to troubleshoot or analyze it than others here. Many of us realize there is a long list of variables in the transmission chain, and its not as cut and dry as you may like to make it.


you are correct, they do experience audio issues, just not like this one. i have described and other members have confirmed the hr24 had other, completely different issues related to dropouts.

im not sure what "soapboxy" means.

i would beg to differ about my credentials! i would love to know how many members here install 6 digit A/V systems regularly? how many people here have installed $50,000 32x32 Crestron DM HDMI matrices that transmit over fiber? How many here have been extensively trained in HDMI delivery systems and have been DMC-E certified. You can look over what i have been trained on here! I am not tooting my own horn, but my experience and projects speak for themselves. You may be used to the typical computer forum cowboy, i am not one of them.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

Rich said:


> This is puzzling me. Have you actually hooked up another of your HRs to exactly the same cables and wiring that the 24-500 has on it? If the problem is with the 500 you would not hear the odd sounds you are hearing on another HR and your only issue then would be getting another 24 from D*. If the odd sounds are still heard on the HR replacing the 500, you've got a problem with the AV set. That's just about as simple as you can get. Have you done that?
> 
> You seem to be lashing out at the 500s as a group, even going to extent of taking *VOS's* lending D* (What, they couldn't buy one?) his Sony AV set completely out of context.
> 
> Rich


yes, i stated i had swapped other boxes in its place earlier. i never said i was hearing odd noises, i am getting complete dropouts for differing lengths of time between 3-12 seconds at a time. it happens on live, recorded, buffered material. it is definitely the box.

also, VOS has commented and clarified. anybody who clicked on the two links i provided or searched dbstalk for hr24 audio dropout would have seen his thread discussing this. i havent taken anything out of context.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Heee's baaaaaack....


+1


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

double said:


> Did you look at anything that I posted? I didnt say wide ranging problem, I said known problem. It is or* was* KNOWN that the HR-24 had a unique problem in respect to audio dropouts.


The operative word here "was", and that was a couple of years ago.
Even when it was a problem, it didn't match your post.
About ever 4 mins or so it would "blimp" with a recording. Playing another recording from another DVR would also have this problem, but if it was the same recorded program, it would happen at a different point in the recording.
If you played the recording from the 24 on another receiver, it didn't have a problem.

NONE of them ever lasted 10 sec, though the type of amp being used can extend the time the problem lasts.
This has been seen in the thread about Dolby problems that were encoder related. Some very nice amps take much longer to recover than my cheap Sony.

"My point" is not to piss on your troubleshooting skills, but to try to point you in a better direction. You either have a problem with your setup, "or" a semi-unique problem with "this HR24".

Dolby isn't perfect, but most/all of the problems now relate to the feed being sent to DirecTV.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> Well, when are you going to call DirecTV? It's been two days since you started this thread.


already called.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

I am pretty surprised at the reaction i got from this thread. hdtv00001, for some reason has taken personal offense to the fact i am frustrated with a problem i have been experiencing for quite some time that dozens of others have experienced specific to the hr24. another member on this thread has confirmed there was an issue specific to the hr24 that engineering knew about. i wanted to come here and see if it was still a problem or really just get anybodys input or experiences with the box. instead i got an a**hole that felt the need to reply to my every post, miss valuable information i posted, and contribute absolutely nothing!!!! thanks everyone, what a community!!!!


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Heee's baaaaaack....


oh, i get it now, it makes sense......you are 13!!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

double said:


> I am pretty surprised at the reaction i got from this thread. hdtv00001, for some reason has taken personal offense to the fact i am frustrated with a problem i have been experiencing for quite some time that dozens of others have experienced specific to the hr24. another member on this thread has confirmed there was an issue specific to the hr24 that engineering knew about. i wanted to come here and see if it was still a problem or really just get anybodys input or experiences with the box. instead i got an a**hole that felt the need to reply to my every post, miss valuable information i posted, and contribute absolutely nothing!!!! thanks everyone, what a community!!!!


I've tried to be helpful and informative, as I've been dealing with DirecTV and Dolby problems dating back maybe 5 years.

If you think there is a problem with your 24, if it's anything like the old problem, you can find this out by:

Use MRV and play recordings from other DVRs, and play recordings from this 24 on other DVRs.

If the problem exists on all DVRs, most likely it was the feed with the corrupted Dolby.
If on the other hand, a recording that plays well on another DVR, has problem on your 24, and a recording on your 24 plays fine on another DVR, "then" this 24 looks to be defective.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> The operative word here "was", and that was a couple of years ago.
> Even when it was a problem, it didn't match your post.
> About ever 4 mins or so it would "blimp" with a recording. Playing another recording from another DVR would also have this problem, but if it was the same recorded program, it would happen at a different point in the recording.
> If you played the recording from the 24 on another receiver, it didn't have a problem.
> ...


VOS, thanks, i completely understand. that is exactly why i came here! obviously i have a bad box. i guess others on this thread only use the forum to praise directvs efforts and defend them from all attacks. i was under the impression problems and issues could be discussed.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I've tried to be helpful and informative, as I've been dealing with DirecTV and Dolby problems dating back maybe 5 years.
> 
> If you think there is a problem with your 24, if it's anything like the old problem, you can find this out by:
> 
> ...


only on this dvr. with all DD content from any recording both on the suspect 24 and also MRV from any other DVR. its definitely got problems!!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

double said:


> VOS, thanks, i was under the impression problems and issues could be discussed.





double said:


> only on this dvr. with all DD content from any recording both on the suspect 24 and also MRV from any other DVR. its definitely got problems!!


Hopefully the forum will continue to be a place for this.

"Yep" it sounds like this box is bad. What should be of some comfort is not all of them are, so a replacement should resolve the problem.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

double said:


> you are correct, TVs can decode DD on the ATSC tuner, this is a function of the tuner! BUT, NO TV decodes DD on an HDMI input. TVs are stereo devices. The EDID on every TV tells the source to send stereo at whatever bitrate it supports.
> 
> Also to go even further, most TVs do not pass DD through an HDMI input to the optical digital output of the TV. When you are on an HDMI input of any Samsung TV, go to sound menu and try to change the SPDIF output format to DD or DTS, you cant, they are grayed out. The DD and DTS options are only available for built in tuner and streaming apps. This is what sucks about adding a Surround bar like the B&W Panorama to a TV that has HDMI sources. what could be as easy as running a single optical cable from TV to bar wont get you 5.1 sound to the bar. You have to run optical or coaxial digital from each source to the bar.


Thank you very much for the clarification. TV's decode DD, but rarely other than in the RF chain feeding the ATSC/QAM tuner (actually, just after demod and demux). Agreed.

While HDMI has the capability of passing DD, I think you are correct that in most cases audio that arrives at a TV via HDMI is not decoded as DD there, and that it rarely if ever is passed back out through the optical output of a TV. Again, we're agreed. Not that any of that even matters.

And don't fret over the haters; they will eventually screw themselves into the ground. Ignore them; the rest of us are still here with you and generally speaking we are not here to take cowardly pot shots at you for sport from behind the safety of a keyboard. You're pissed, and frustrated, and rightfully so.

I think we can all agree that there are audio dropouts due to transmission and reception, but I also think those are pretty rare compared to audio dropouts from the STB to the AVR via DD, which seem to be much more common.

A few posters here seem not to realize the importance of what I posted earlier, which is that DD is the ONLY audio transmitted with an HD channel over ATSC, cable, or DBS. Any non-DD audio feeds connected from the STB are generated from that DD source, typically a stereo 2.0 mixdown. And that is a process that will not generate drop-outs of its own.

What that means is that since the problems lie typically in the DD link from STB to AVR and rarely manifest in the stereo 2.0 audio outputs, DD as the source and DTV as the provider can't really be at fault for not providing coherently-solid audio to the STB. This points to the problem being after that point in the chain, either a faulty DD pickoff and retransmit from the STB, or an interopability issue with the consumer-grade DD decoder as it listens for DD from the STB.

If its the first problem, which is uncommon, you should consider getting them to replace the HR24. If it is the second problem, which has a long history of being a common problem, you should first up rev firmware in the AVR. Then either consider a different AVR or just don't use DD.

But that it might be a problem prior to the uplink or in transmission is not borne out by the low number of complaints, and that it might be a problem in poor reception is something easily determined, and not very likely.


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## double (Sep 12, 2006)

tomcat, thanks. all good info.


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## Philz (Nov 25, 2013)

I recently updated my boxes to HR44 with 2 mini genies and a HR24-100
Unfortunately I'm getting 1-2 sec Audio dropout 2 - 3 an hour on HR24 with DD enabled.

Such dropouts are not present on my older HR20 and newer HR44 or minis using same AV & cables.



Phil-


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> It does seem worse with Dolby on, and some AV receivers handle it better than others. It would make my Onkyo click. Still happens on occasion with my Denon, but without clicking. I haven't watched it in a few seasons but I swore it was worst with a particular program on History.


Happens very rarely to me. My Sony AVRs that everyone disparages have very few problems. I have 11 active 24s and don't have enough audio dropouts to even mention them.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Philz said:


> I recently updated my boxes to HR44 with 2 mini genies and a HR24-100
> Unfortunately I'm getting 1-2 sec Audio dropout 2 - 3 an hour on HR24 with DD enabled.
> 
> Such dropouts are not present on my older HR20 and newer HR44 or minis using same AV & cables.


Welcome to DBSTalk! 
Is your '24 going through an AVR via HDMI? Can you bypass that, and do audio via fibre cable?

Have you rebooted it?


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## Philz (Nov 25, 2013)

During weekend I touched base with a friend of a friend that works for DTV doing installs.

We discussed my setup & sound issue being had ,he came to the conclusion it was more then likely due to my HR24 coaxial cable length .

SWM Dish to 4 way splitter > 40 ft.

The 4 way Splitter wire feed

1) HR44 with power source > 9 ft

2) Mini > 30ft

3) Mini > 90 ft

4) HR24 > 140 ft


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> Happens very rarely to me. My Sony AVRs that everyone disparages have very few problems. I have 11 active 24s and don't have enough audio dropouts to even mention them.
> 
> Rich


It's gotten a lot better, this is a revived thread


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## Philz (Nov 25, 2013)

Laxguy said:


> Welcome to DBSTalk!
> Is your '24 going through an AVR via HDMI? Can you bypass that, and do audio via fibre cable?
> 
> Have you rebooted it?


Thanks

Ive tested in a number of ways

HR24 > HDMI > AV Pioneer 1020-k > Panasonic ST60 Plasma

HR24 > Optical > AV Pioneer 1020-k

HR24 > Dig Coax > AV Pioneer 1020-k

Now An interesting one.
HR24 > HDMI > Panasonic ST60 Plasma Optical out > AV Pioneer 1020-K.

DD didn't pass through TV optical out of course but i did notice 2 channel sound feed drops occurred when HR24 DD enabled.
From there I listened more closely finding drops occurred on 2 channel sound feed with any AV wire combination when DD was enabled

Yes many reboots unfortunately not resolving DD drops.

_EDIT ADDING ADD MORE DETAIL:_
Spoke with DTV advanced tech on Friday , Advanced offered HR21 , HR22 or HR23 replacement to resolve issue.

I told him to hold off on such move I needed to do research give me a call back on Tuesday.

Im going to request dish move which will shorten up SWM Dish to 4 Way Splitter & HR24 wire run by half.

What I will be looking at:

SWM Dish to 4 way splitter > 8 ft.

The 4 way Splitter wire feed
1)Mini with power source > 5 ft
2)HR44 > 20 ft
3)Mini > 30 ft
4)HR24 > 70 ft

The above is much more balanced run f,sure compared to my current setup only good can come from it solving issue being had


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Philz said:


> During weekend I touched base with a friend of a friend that works for DTV doing installs.
> 
> We discussed my setup & sound issue being had ,he came to the conclusion it was more then likely due to my HR24 coaxial cable length .
> 
> ...


I have shorter runs and still needed an amp to stop various problems on one of my SWM16s. I bought it from *Solid Signal* and it solved my problems. Cost about $130 as I recall. You should go to their website and get their phone number for their excellent tech service and tell them what problems you're having. I'd send you a link but I think they stopped selling the amp I bought a couple years ago. Well worth the money and it's simple to install.

Aw hell, I hate it when somebody posts like that. Only takes a minute. I think this one will work. Looking at it, I know it will work. Here's the _*link*_. Naturally, it's cheaper now than when I bought it. My luck.

Rich


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## Philz (Nov 25, 2013)

Rich said:


> I have shorter runs and still needed an amp to stop various problems on one of my SWM16s. I bought it from *Solid Signal* and it solved my problems. Cost about $130 as I recall. You should go to their website and get their phone number for their excellent tech service and tell them what problems you're having. I'd send you a link but I think they stopped selling the amp I bought a couple years ago. Well worth the money and it's simple to install.
> 
> Aw hell, I hate it when somebody posts like that. Only takes a minute. I think this one will work. Looking at it, I know it will work. Here's the _*link*_. Naturally, it's cheaper now than when I bought it. My luck.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for the input Rich much appreciated .
Tech came out a few hours ago gave run the look over also checking db strength on HR24 wire finding all was well.
He replaced HR24/100 with a new one , 3 hours of use so far no DB dropouts hopefully issue is resolved.


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## Philz (Nov 25, 2013)

Well during the evening a couple DD drops occurred nothing major but what really got my attention was picture quality not as good as previous HR24-100.
From there I went into ST60 pictures settings finding that HDMI/DVI RGB range defaults at (16-235)
I changed setting to (Auto) and with that came better picture but this is the kicker , No more DD loss.

Handshake issue maybe? I'm beginning to think so.

Could Those with -500 feel the same pain with older displays....Kuro for example doesn't support (16-235) which that build receiver pushes


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Philz said:


> Well during the evening a couple DD drops occurred nothing major but what really got my attention was picture quality not as good as previous HR24-100.
> From there I went into ST60 pictures settings finding that HDMI/DVI RGB range defaults at (16-235)
> I changed setting to (Auto) and with that came better picture but this is the kicker , No more DD loss.
> 
> ...


Could be, there are different chip sets in the 500s than the 100s.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Philz said:


> Thanks for the input Rich much appreciated .
> Tech came out a few hours ago gave run the look over also checking db strength on HR24 wire finding all was well.
> He replaced HR24/100 with a new one , 3 hours of use so far no DB dropouts hopefully issue is resolved.


Good, I don't think that amp would have been suitable for you anyway. Meant to get back to you and tell you that. Sorry.

Rich


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## Philz (Nov 25, 2013)

Rich said:


> Good, I don't think that amp would have been suitable for you anyway. Meant to get back to you and tell you that. Sorry.
> 
> Rich


Interesting find the last couple day.
After new box install sound issue was kicked but picture went to crap.
Advance tech support gave me a call an hour ago to close out case ,before doing so he ran system test on HR24 finding error code with signal.
He then ran test on HR44 finding no signal issue which points to HR24 long cable run being the culprit so Rep put in ticket for dish move.
30 min later DTV Tech just showed up at my residents for dish move so hopefully we finally have true fix.

*UPDATE:*
Well dish move complete roughly 80ft eliminated from run with Power source 10ft from dish.
The result is amazing , HR24-100 Picture quality on my Panasonic 60ST60 Plasma has never looked better & no Dolby loss.
This is the best birthday present ever.


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## jmhga44 (Aug 27, 2006)

I just upgraded 2 HR-24/500 HD DVRs and a H24 HD receiver to a HR44/500 and 2 C41/500 Genies. The HR24/500's and H24 had pretty frequent audio dropouts (ESPN seemed to be the most notorious if I recall correctly) and I had many techs out here that were baffled. After the upgrade I've still notice some audio dropouts but they don't seem to be as frequent as they were with the previous equipment.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Philz said:


> Interesting find the last couple day.
> After new box install sound issue was kicked but picture went to crap.
> Advance tech support gave me a call an hour ago to close out case ,before doing so he ran system test on HR24 finding error code with signal.
> He then ran test on HR44 finding no signal issue which points to HR24 long cable run being the culprit so Rep put in ticket for dish move.
> ...


And cheaper than buying an amp. Good for you!

Rich


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## Philz (Nov 25, 2013)

It appears HR24-100 Dolby drop issue is resolved with Software update ver - 0x803 I received on 4/8.
Every so often I would enable setting finding those very annoying drops present so disbale was needed.
A couple days ago I enabled setting finding no drops present equaling 16 hours of viewing which is fantastic.


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