# USB external storage due soon for 622?



## JMikeF (May 2, 2003)

I've heard:

The USB external option will be available in Dec for the 622
It will not be available for the older 942 receiver
Question: will we be able to archive programs that are currently recorded? Or is it seemless - that is, we won't be able to specifiy external/internal - the sw sees it as one big virtual space.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Since it's not out it's hard to say, but based on what has been told to us already and demo'd at events it would seem that you can archive what you've already recorded. That it does not act like one big virtual space. Only time will tell, but what is what I've read so far.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hmm December..... Guess we got a new rumor date floating around. I thought the USB support was going into the big October update? Would be nice to get this as a early Xmas present. 

Like Rob said, based on the demos shown and how it was described it will be archival in nature and not one virtual space. As for the time of release, I don't think Dish has mentioned a date so any information should be taken with a grain of salt or maybe even a shaker full.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

A few questions if anyone has answers.


Will the 622 format your USB to it's file format?
Can you read (play) your USB drive on someone else's 622?
Will you be able to keep your USB drive(s) and use them with the next generation HD-DVR?
Will you be able to use multiple USB drives to create a library of content or only 1 drive per system?
Can you have more than 1 USB drive plugged in at the same time using a USB hub?
What is the maximum capacity for a USB drive that the 622 can format and read?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

All good questions which will be answered when DishNetwork releases the product/service offering. 
For now, the best answer is yes and no. Matching those answers to the questions is the hard part.
(I will give the answer to the last question, to the best of my knowledge: neither yes or no. )


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

William said:


> A few questions if anyone has answers.
> 
> 
> [YES]Will the 622 format your USB to it's file format?
> ...


heres my go at the guessing game


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Two questions to add to William's list:
Can you read (play) your USB drive on another 622 on the same account?
Can you read (play) your USB drive on a non-622 receiver on the same account?
Answers -
Wait and see.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

cooldude - my guesses would be very similar to yours in answer to those specific questions.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

This could be a cool feature or it could end up like expanding a closet becsuse you ran out of room. Shortly after the expansion the closet will once again be out of room. When I had a 501 I always ended up with 5 to 10 hours free, when I had a 721 I always seemed to end up with 5 to 10 hours free, I now have a 622 and have 5 to 10 hours of HD free...... 

Computers: I had a 120 gb drive it always seemed to have 20 Gb free , I added a 300gb and guess what I had about 20 gb free on each. 20 gb seems to be the point where I start archiving to DVD and then fill it up again. I added some external USB drives total free space stayed about the same.

My conclusion is whatever it is will always consume available free space. 

Storage on a hard drive has to be considered temporary since it is only when not if the drive will fail.

Cheers

Edit: I can spell I just can't type.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

TBoneit said:


> Computers: I had a 120 gb drive it always seemed to have 20 Gb free , I added a 300gb and guess what I had about 20 gb free on each. 20 gb seems to be the point where I start archiving to DVD and then fill it up again. I added some external USB drives total free space stayed about the same.


Micro$oft has trained you well young Padawan. That Windows XP becomes "less stable" with less than 20GB free has caused this behavior to be imprinted on your soul.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

There is a very common theory in warehouse managing. Finding the minimum amount of space to work with. In all the cases I saw, whenever space was shrunk they still seemed to be able to accomplish their work. Yes it is always good to have the option of more space, but also there is something said for not having too much so it forces one to keep a cleaner house. 

Of course.. having options in this area would be most welcome.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

harsh said:


> Micro$oft has trained you well young Padawan. That Windows XP becomes "less stable" with less than 20GB free has caused this behavior to be imprinted on your soul.


I thought the "less stable" limit was 20% of available space, not 20GB?


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## Rovingbar (Jan 25, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> In all the cases I saw, whenever space was shrunk they still seemed to be able to accomplish their work.


Yah, I hate it when my company thinks like this.  They seem to place a premium on 'working capital' and forget the value of past work. At least we have a low-cost archive drive to save old work. I guess this applies equally to a DVR. I start to get worried when we have less than 10 hrs of HD time left. Each week we record about 15 hrs of OTA programming so if I don't get around to watching everything over the weekend, we run the risk of wiping out some shows.

On the other hand, if we had 100 hrs of HD recording available, I'm sure we'd fill it right up to the last 15 hrs.

:grin:


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Heck.. We still would have HD shows being erased before we got to them...... Seems to be the way things work.. You always find ways to fill up the unused space whether you really need it or not. The hard question is always finding that sweet spot where you balance cost vs. revenue generated.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

Here is a good price for a 500GB USB drive. I wish that E* would say for sure about USB storage.


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## Jolard (Feb 14, 2006)

That is not bad at all. 

One of the best things to do is simply buy a USB 2.0 drive enclosure, and then buy a standard internal drive and put it in. You can usually get that cheaper if you kind of build your own external drive. 

Dish, pay attention please. I want to be able to buy a drive in a killer After Thanksgiving day sale, and use that with my DVR. Don't make me buy a Dish branded drive for twice what I could buy my own.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No kidding...

If you do go the drive enclosure route, be sure to get one with a fan built in, otherwise you may run into heat problems with the drive always running.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

Jolard said:


> ...Don't make me buy a Dish branded drive for twice what I could buy my own.


I was about to buy a USB HD to be ready. However is it possible that E* will force us to buy an already formatted Dish drive at a inflated price?:nono2:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Anything is possible ... but once again, don't panic until the feature is released! (I don't believe E* has made that decision yet.)

So many times people get so worked up with "worst case scenarios" of how bad it _could_ be yet it turns out to be so much better. Patience.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It was seen at last CEDIA, Dish used Maxtor' external USB2 500 GB disk; I bet it will be safe to buy exactly one - if it did works for Dish, it must works for us.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

P Smith said:


> It was seen at last CEDIA, Dish used Maxtor' external USB2 500 GB disk; I bet it will be safe to buy exactly one - if it did works for Dish, it must works for us.


The problem is it must be formatted and if E* uses a proprietary format and the 622's new firmware doesn't have a format HD option then you would be out of luck.

Does anyone know if will use FAT32 or NTFS system?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

IMHO I think it would be wise to wait to make any USB Hard drive purchase IF the primary use of that hard drive is going to be for external archiving off of a DISH receiver.

This feature has not been released yet nor has there been any official notice from DISH regarding the specifics about the feature. 

We just don't know if ALL USB hard drives will be supported or if we are going to have to buy a DISH branded USB hard drive. Perhaps they will support 3rd party drives, but only certain ones. The fact of the matter is, we just don't know.

Personally I would be pretty upset if I spent a couple hundred on a drive just to find out it won't work with my receiver. With that in mind I will not be going out and buying a new drive for this purpose until the feature is released, or the specifics are announced.

Hopefully all USB drives will be supported but only time will tell.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

William said:


> The problem is it must be formatted and if E* uses a proprietary format and the 622's new firmware doesn't have a format HD option then you would be out of luck.
> 
> Does anyone know if will use FAT32 or NTFS system?


I would be surprised if it is either one of these formats, but of course like Rob and James said. Without any details at this point other than what was seen at trade shoes (And that is always subject to change) at this point it is anyones guess and best to be patient and wait until this feature is released.

Oh.. and as time has shown.. Prices in USB will drop.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I wouldn't worried about formatting the disk, it was reported when installed brand new compatible disk into, the 622 did autoformat it. 
As I'm aware the 622 disk have three EXT3 partitions.
As to supported models, then yes - Dish have the restriction for almost all DVRs; usually the count include less then 20 models total from WD, Maxtor, Seagate and Samsung.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

What do you mean P. Smith? I am not aware of any official compatibility list for USB External drive support. 

Am I missing something?


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

William said:


> The problem is it must be formatted and if E* uses a proprietary format and the 622's new firmware doesn't have a format HD option then you would be out of luck.
> 
> Does anyone know if will use FAT32 or NTFS system?


Almost guaranteed to be neither, either way they have to pay Microsoft and DISH DVR's are based on Linux. Probably ext3 with the files on the file system themselves will be encrypted (make sense since the streams come down to the receiver that way).


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

invaliduser88 said:


> Almost guaranteed to be neither, either way they have to pay Microsoft and DISH DVR's are based on Linux. Probably ext3 with the files on the file system themselves will be encrypted (make sense since the streams come down to the receiver that way).


After posting I thought about the 622 being Linux. So the Linux file format is called ext3? Is it likely that the 622 will have a format HD command so you can use any USB drive and is ext3 capable of 1TB or more drive sizes?


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## cornflakes (Sep 30, 2005)

It's all speculation but I would expect it to be similar to D*'s HR20 in that you can plug in any brand drive and it will automatically format it to work. But not like the HR20 in that you can only use one drive at a time. I believe the general consensus is that we can use both the internal and external drives at the same time on the 622, except the external drive is only use for archiving old shows.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Having said that.. Like mentioned earlier.. Don't go out getting your USB drives. One does not know what the requirements will be, what limitations might be imposed, etc... 

Patience is a virtue here.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

At this point all is pure speculation. The feature hasn't been released so unless you are a betting person, it doesn't make a lot of sense to debate speculation. Maybe we could get the news media or Zogby to give us their prediction as they will be out of work by tomorrow. 

..Doyle


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

True...look at how many promised future features have been canned by Dish in the past. :nono:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

If it works at CEDIA, then it will works for us. Soon ! 

Aprroved list must still the same for internal or external disk - because there are same requirements from software standpoint, with big relief of power consuption as the future enclosure(s) have own PS.


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## tubbyama (Sep 24, 2006)

My Rave HD collection has reached its max capacity.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Aprroved list must still the same for internal or external disk - because there are same requirements from software standpoint


I wouldn't necessarily say this is true. This would be like saying that a USB Hard Drive needs to be certified for every OS it is going to be connected to, and it doesn't. The OS just needs a driver that supports the USB 2.0 Mass Storage Device type, and in theory any USB 2.0 drive will work. I don't think it really cares what manufacturer's drive is behind it. I would think the drive requirements would be more stringent for the internal drive which is used to boot the system and run the OS within the DVR.

I'm not a kernel engineer so I may be off base on this but that is my understanding. Really a USB 2.0 drive is a USB 2.0 drive, the same driver in XP/MacOS/Linux/etc ... is used for all USB 2.0 drives connected to that system/OS.


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## cornflakes (Sep 30, 2005)

For the most part most external USB drives are easily detected by Linux. There are always a couple of exceptions, but mostly, they're all generic USB mass-storage devices. 

I would think since this thing is being used to archive programs, and archived programs have to be copied back onto the main internal drive before they can be played, I would think that the speed or specs of the external drive isn't that important. It doesn't need to be fast enough for the 622 to record 3 shows while playing back another simultaneously. 

Yes this is all speculation, but it's fun to speculate and dream until it becomes a reality... gives us something to do.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

True ... but even the capabilities you are using for guessing the specs are speculation.


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## cornflakes (Sep 30, 2005)

True 

I've only had the 622 since Saturday and half the hard drive's full of stuff from Rave already!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Well guys, let me look from development stand point, not sure who can support me there, but there are many factors for uptake into account of video processing from HDD - a few: interface, sustaining speed, recalibration period and time for that, queuing support, power requirements, heat generating, MTBF, stability, how big space for G-List, ... wanna more ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A decent list, although since the 622 will only see this drive via USB the factors can be narrowed down to those that affect data throughput and stability. The question is does E* want to take a risk and allow any old USB drive to be connected or do they want to take responsibility and pre-screen drives?

*Scenario 1:* E* allows any USB 2.0 drive to be purchased by the customer and attached to the receiver. The receiver takes full control of the drive and stores encrypted program files for either direct replay or restoration back to the original receiver.

Problems: No E* QC on drives. When a drive or transfer failure happens a customer is annoyed. If a program is totally lost in transfer or storage the customer is annoyed. Even though the selection of the drive was totally the responsibility of the customer E* is blamed.

*Scenario 2:* E* certifies and becomes the sole provider of external drive storage devices for the ViP-622 DVR. No other USB drives will work with the receiver. Functionality is similar to Scenario 1 except "any old drive" will not be recognized by the receiver.

Problems: E* becomes responsible for their choice of drive. When a drive fails the customer becomes even more annoyed at E* since it was an E* provided drive.

In all scenarios E* is held responsible regardless of why the program is lost. The first scenario allows them to return the blame to the customer (for choosing "the wrong drive") but a noob would know that irate customers are the noisiest.

I'm hoping that they allow "any old drive" and perhaps give minimum specs, but I'm not looking forward to the "I lost all my archived programs" posts when someone buys a drive that fails - especially if it was from an approved list.

P Smith, you mentioned a drive earlier in the thread based on it's demo use at trade shows. I agree that it is likely that it would be a good drive for the purpose but until E* makes it clear that they will allow "any drive" to be attached I would encourage people NOT to buy a USB drive. That may be "the drive" ... E* may come up with something better ... or they may only allow E* provided drives. It is too early to tell.

Perhaps it is the best drive in your mind for the job. Perhaps you would choose a different drive to put inside the 622 if you had a choice. This one is up to E* ... and we eagerly await their decision.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Well said JL. I don't see it as much different than car companies telling you which BlueTooth cellphones are compatible with their cars. I am sure the Drive manufacturers would do their best to make sure their drives are on the validated list. 

..Doyle


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

I sure hope it will read the play list and play directly off the drive and not require you to copy the files to the 622 first. I would like to get a large HD and fill with concerts and be able to switch back and forth between them. 

On a related note it would be great if E* added the ability to put chapter stops in a recording. I know in my dreams but it would be convenient.


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## jcrobso (Mar 30, 2005)

Murphy's law: Your content will all wise fill up all available storage space!
XP is stable???? John


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

At CEDIA the external drive did works as a normal storage, not just an archive type.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

William said:


> After posting I thought about the 622 being Linux. So the Linux file format is called ext3? Is it likely that the 622 will have a format HD command so you can use any USB drive and is ext3 capable of 1TB or more drive sizes?


Linux supports many file systems, ext3 is popular but others include reiserFS, JFS and XFS.

Linux support for NTFS is currently limited to read only.

ext3 running on current linux kernel and a 32bit cpu supports 4TB partitions.


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## mschwab (Nov 10, 2006)

You're calling it "archiving", but does anybody have any guesses whether this will be a true "backup" system? By that I mean that you copy shows from the internal drive to the external drive, and they are not automatically removed from the internal drive? That way, you could archive shows on at least two different external drives, and you'd be much better protected from data loss on any one drive (internal or external). I sure wish I'd had such a backup the times my TiVo hard drives have crashed!


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

mschwab said:


> You're calling it "archiving", but does anybody have any guesses whether this will be a true "backup" system? By that I mean that you copy shows from the internal drive to the external drive, and they are not automatically removed from the internal drive? That way, you could archive shows on at least two different external drives, and you'd be much better protected from data loss on any one drive (internal or external). I sure wish I'd had such a backup the times my TiVo hard drives have crashed!


As demonstrated it "archives" and deletes it from the internal drive. And there is no restore to internal options.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

tnsprin said:


> As demonstrated it "archives" and deletes it from the internal drive. And there is no restore to internal options.


Really? Can you point me to the Echostar/DISH location that documents this is how the feature works?

I think everyone needs to take a step back and remember that this is not a released feature. Yes, it was demo'd once, a while back, in what was most likely in an alpha or early beta stage, since it's not production yet.

That being said what is released may not be exactly what people have seen/read over the past year.

At this point in the game I don't think we can make any assumptions on how this feature is going to work exactly.

I don't want people misled in this thread, so I will keep adding posts like this as I feel they are needed to re-iterate that everything posted in here is purely speculation and the actual features of this feature may vary from what members are posting here.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Nothing wrong with speculation.. But like Rob said, what is shown at a trade show or some other location or venue as pre-release may or may not be what we actually see. 

Same goes with the type of drives that will be supported. Though these are aspects of what is required to provide USB support HDD support, nothing has been indicated by Dish as to what the final feature set will be and what limitations it may have. 

So please don't go out and get that on 1TB hard drive based on this thread or start ranting about the lack of transfer from external to internal. Opinions here are based on a pre-release demo and speculation so lets keep that in mind..


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> Same goes with the type of drives that will be supported. Though these are aspects of what is required to provide USB support HDD support, nothing has been indicated by Dish as to what the final feature set will be and what limitations it may have.


I submit that the drive mechanism itself has nothing to do with it. It will be the USB controller that determines compatibility. As far as the DVR is concerned, there are a large number of data blocks on some sort of storage device.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

And again ... *until E* releases this feature it would be premature to assume any drive would work*.

Be patient. If you buy a USB drive expect to use it with your PC/Mac or other computer, not a ViP-622 DVR. Don't get mad when you find out it won't work with a ViP-622 DVR! (And _if_ it happens to work when E* releases the feature, be happy.)


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

harsh said:


> I submit that the drive mechanism itself has nothing to do with it. It will be the USB controller that determines compatibility. As far as the DVR is concerned, there are a large number of data blocks on some sort of storage device.


So what you are saying is that if I grab a USB 2.0 enclosure, grab a 5400 RPM drive that has the low throughput, small cache, and high latency, hook it up to my 622 I should have the same expectations as hooking up a 7200RPM drive, low latency, small cache, and high throughput?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

He is skimming, probably just regular user without real experience.


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## Zvi (Feb 2, 2006)

Bump. It is December and do we have the storage or any new at least? 25 hours of HD recording is not nearly enough with more and more HD channels, even if the content looks blocky...


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Last news was sometime in Q1 based on the last tech chat.


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## apco25 (Oct 2, 2005)

Zvi said:


> Bump. It is December and do we have the storage or any new at least? 25 hours of HD recording is not nearly enough with more and more HD channels, even if the content looks blocky...


What do you mean by this?


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## Zvi (Feb 2, 2006)

By what?


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## jpoet (Feb 9, 2007)

kb7oeb said:


> Linux supports many file systems, ext3 is popular but others include reiserFS, JFS and XFS.
> 
> Linux support for NTFS is currently limited to read only.
> 
> ext3 running on current linux kernel and a 32bit cpu supports 4TB partitions.


http://www.ntfs-3g.org/

Works well.

John


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

Get with it Dish. Storage dedicated to just one appliance is an obsolete concept made necessary by Hollywood IP attorneys.

Many have created terrabytes of networked storage for their multimedia libraries since the cost has collapsed to $250/TB and gigabit Ethernet switches are cheap. Much easier to maintain, backup and distribute to any display in the house.


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## Zvi (Feb 2, 2006)

So do we have any update on this?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

NO


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

I believe the rough time line announced at CES was 'mid-year'. I would imagine if we don't see it by then there will be an updated announcement made during a tech chat or charlie chat.


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> So what you are saying is that if I grab a USB 2.0 enclosure, grab a 5400 RPM drive that has the low throughput, small cache, and high latency, hook it up to my 622 I should have the same expectations as hooking up a 7200RPM drive, low latency, small cache, and high throughput?


As long as E* is merely copying to and from the drive, and not playing from it then pretty much. It'll take longer to do the copy, but operationally it will be identical. That's why we can have PCs with drive speeds ranging from 15k rpm down to 3600 rpm.

If they allow playing from the drive, then there will be certain minimum specs, but neither cache nor latency should matter (sequential access) and the only thing that matters is sustained data rate which is a function of rotation speed and the interface maximums.

Since the 622 can read/write to 3 or 4 streams simultaneously on a 7200 rpm drive, I'd imagine that a 5400 rpm drive should be able to service a single stream just fine.

That said, I still wouldn't go out and buy a drive in anticipation of E* doing this just in case they do something crappy like only recognizing Maxtor drives or something along those lines (cross-promo agreement, etc.) just like they did with Archos instead of allowing any PDA to do it with Dish-supplied software.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

Sorry if this isn't the place to post this, but I heard there is a new 622 in the wind, 622-1 with a bigger hard drive. Any idea when it will be introduced? I have a 722 that is rebooting itself every other day. I have a feeling that before long it's going to poop out. 

Thanks.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

FogCutter said:


> Sorry if this isn't the place to post this, but I heard there is a new 622 in the wind, 622-1 with a bigger hard drive. Any idea when it will be introduced? I have a 722 that is rebooting itself every other day. I have a feeling that before long it's going to poop out.


You have a 622 ... the 622-1 has not officially had a date attached to it ... although be warned, as noted back in January when the 622-1 was first mentioned at the Consumer Electronics Show, that "larger hard drive" was noted as being for "more VOD".

There was a spec sheet floating around for a 722 that has a larger hard drive but the same record hour specs as the 622 (30 HD/200 SD). Don't count on a "larger hard drive" being more space for YOUR HD (although it would make HD VOD easier).


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

James Long said:


> You have a 622 ... the 622-1 has not officially had a date attached to it ... although be warned, as noted back in January when the 622-1 was first mentioned at the Consumer Electronics Show, that "larger hard drive" was noted as being for "more VOD".
> 
> There was a spec sheet floating around for a 722 that has a larger hard drive but the same record hour specs as the 622 (30 HD/200 SD). Don't count on a "larger hard drive" being more space for YOUR HD (although it would make HD VOD easier).


James do you think that Dish will make the 622 go bye bye. The reason I asked is that Dish make money on the VOD section and it stands to reason that dish would like to have as many people with the bigger hard drive as it can. So Dish can selll the VOD content either to its customer or to Madison Avenue


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The 622 will be around for a while ....
Think of this like the transition from 501 to 508 to 510 ... except in this case the space added on the 2nd step is apparently not for direct use by the customer.

The 622 is still a useful receiver and the 622-1 is probably a lot like it. With the resistance to VOD purchases I don't see having extra VOD on the drive as make or break.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would bet a pile of ca.., oops - a pile of receivers  - we will not hear about ViP622-1 anymore .


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## malefactor (Jun 10, 2006)

I've got to say, at this point I'm feeling snookered. I bought into this box (622, switching from DTV and my beloved directivo) thinking extra storage ability is "just around the corner". That was last june. 3 month delay, fine. 6 month delay, not acceptable. 12 month delay? You're either just lying to me flat out or your engineering team is not under any reasonable sense of control.


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## Hunter Green (May 8, 2006)

Who told you it was "just around the corner"? Was it an official source?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

This time engineering phase has been done, successfully !

Dish thinking now how to protect recordings from your fair use and how to milk more money from you for the "service".


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## malefactor (Jun 10, 2006)

Hunter Green said:


> Who told you it was "just around the corner"? Was it an official source?


No, nothing official. Just reading here, reading about the tech demos they did at shows, etc.

30 hours of recorded programs is kind of tight when you're used to 400. I've managed but I just find the vaporware technique rather frustrating.

Yeah, I know, I should have known better. Dish has plenty of history disappointing people in this way.

I still don't regret jumping - the HD is spectacular. I just think the quality of the dish box is a little subpar.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

So who is it you feel snookered by? You can't blame Dish because you believed rumors on this forum. You also can not blame Dish for showing new technology at trade shows that is not delivered. If an availability date is not announced, you can't be upset at anyone except yourself for the decisions you made.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Almost true, but if you recall DishWire aka FireWire retreat, then you'll know what you could expect.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You know... every year they have one of those "car of the future" shows... and yet when do you ever see those cars on the street?

I expect similar things at shows like CES... showing things that *might* happen in the future, but may never see the light of day.

This happens all over the place in various technologies, not just Dish and the external storage.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Let's see how well L4.03 works first ...
Make those people who want to see "working" software before new features happy.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

So the 622-1 really isn't much of an answer since most of the added room goes to VOD.

I'm getting by with 25 hours, but more would be nice. In truth there isn't all that much HD content worth keeping, and the SD stuff takes hardly any room at all by comparision. Gotta keep room for the wife's Grey's Anatomy and American Idol. We can't get locals in HD yet, so when that happens we will have more of an issue. 

Where are the terabyte drives when you need them?


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

FogCutter said:


> So the 622-1 really isn't much of an answer since most of the added room goes to VOD.
> 
> I'm getting by with 25 hours, but more would be nice. In truth there isn't all that much HD content worth keeping, and the SD stuff takes hardly any room at all by comparision. Gotta keep room for the wife's Grey's Anatomy and American Idol. We can't get locals in HD yet, so when that happens we will have more of an issue.
> 
> Where are the terabyte drives when you need them?


I saw reasonably priced WD 500g and Terabyte USB drives the other day at Costco. So all we need is for the 622 to support them.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

tnsprin said:


> I saw reasonably priced WD 500g and Terabyte USB drives the other day at Costco. So all we need is for the 622 to support them.


Amen.


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## malefactor (Jun 10, 2006)

ChuckA said:


> So who is it you feel snookered by? You can't blame Dish because you believed rumors on this forum. You also can not blame Dish for showing new technology at trade shows that is not delivered. If an availability date is not announced, you can't be upset at anyone except yourself for the decisions you made.


Actually, I can and DO blame dish. Rumors on this forum happened for concrete reasons, and they sure didn't happen without Dish being aware and causal. The trade shows they showed at were not "car of the future" type shows, they were ones like CES where most everything materializes. And they did the demo several times, even (I thought) announcing avail dates. If they didn't announce it, they deliberately leaked it.

But I'll indulge you: Let's say that it is a "futuristic" type show. If that's the case, their "DVR OF THE FUTURE" is pretty pathetic. Either way, they're putting on a very modest, very achievable tech demo and showing it functioning. Why? Drive more customers to them. Marketing, without having a solid plan to deliver what they're marketing. I think it's absurd, bordering on being an apologist, to say that someone can show whatever they want, talk about anything they want, or lure customers in with plans they never intend to implement. The only reason the market isn't punishing them for this activity is that this sector is a virtual monopoly; the cable companies are actually worse! Directv similarly is worse, having taken a marketplace-proven product like the dtivo and expunging it for business reasons in favor of their homemade, and awful, replacement.

In some sense this whole sector feels like a race to the bottom.

I DID said I was, overall, happy with the Dish box, but I still maintain that the way they got me here is distasteful.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Welcome to the real world of business. Now, take off those rose colored glasses.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Also remember that this is a SUPPORT forum ... and try not to get too negative toward the company in general.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

malefactor said:


> Actually, I can and DO blame dish. Rumors on this forum happened for concrete reasons, and they sure didn't happen without Dish being aware and causal. The trade shows they showed at were not "car of the future" type shows, they were ones like CES where most everything materializes. And they did the demo several times, even (I thought) announcing avail dates. If they didn't announce it, they deliberately leaked it.
> 
> But I'll indulge you: Let's say that it is a "futuristic" type show. If that's the case, their "DVR OF THE FUTURE" is pretty pathetic. Either way, they're putting on a very modest, very achievable tech demo and showing it functioning. Why? Drive more customers to them. Marketing, without having a solid plan to deliver what they're marketing. I think it's absurd, bordering on being an apologist, to say that someone can show whatever they want, talk about anything they want, or lure customers in with plans they never intend to implement. The only reason the market isn't punishing them for this activity is that this sector is a virtual monopoly; the cable companies are actually worse! Directv similarly is worse, having taken a marketplace-proven product like the dtivo and expunging it for business reasons in favor of their homemade, and awful, replacement.
> 
> ...


Could not resists sound like Direct Tv vapore ware on HD programming saying we have the ablity for 100 HD channels(making it sound like Direct TV has 100 Hd channels)---All companys promote their future. It is up to the consumer to check what is available today and ignore the future for it may never come.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

To be completely fair... while many of us do record programs and "save" them for re-watching on our DVRs... I'm not sure the primary function of a DVR is to keep programs forever. This would be what the external storage would be for, I presume... so while it is fair to ask about where it is or when it will come out... I find it hard to say I am disappointed in my DVR or feel "limited" or "tricked" in any way because it basically does what it was advertised to do.


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## Marriner (Jan 23, 2006)

HDMe said:


> To be completely fair... while many of us do record programs and "save" them for re-watching on our DVRs... I'm not sure the primary function of a DVR is to keep programs forever. This would be what the external storage would be for, I presume...


Amen brother,

My 622 is filling up with "planet earth" episodes awaiting the announcement of USB External HD support.

It cannot come soon enough in my opinion.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

You know, another option would be a Blu-Ray recorder. Of course that would have to be via component out, but better than nothing.

I didn't realize that Planet Earth had sooo many episodes. Shheessh. It's good, but not that good.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

malefactor said:


> The trade shows they showed at were not "car of the future" type shows, they were ones like CES where most everything materializes.


CES is becoming more and more a marketing test kitchen; especially for the DBS companies.

What is missing from your discourse is consideration of the business reasons that some of these planned goodies haven't reached the market. With the USB drives, it is a content provider issue. With HD locals, it is the station ownership trying to get their "who cares?" channels on satellite.

I'm confident that the hold-up with external drive support for both Dish Network and DirecTV is trying to convince the programming providers that it isn't going to lead to widespread pirating of their product.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I think I have said this before... I once worked for a company that won an award at a consumer trade show for best innovation in some particular area. The thing is, the only version that ever worked was the one at the trade show. The product never made it to market and as far as I can remember there was no real clamor for it or anyone outside the company wondering.

That said... I think some stuff at CES is "not ready for prime time" show-off stuff... and other stuff is to wet people's appetites for the coming months. Last I remember was CES and Dish indicating that external USB support was looking like summer... but I'm not sure that was a 100% line drawn in the sand.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

I read something last year that USB was coming last fall, then December 2006 for sure, then the roll out was slated for the CES, now this summer, maybe the next CES. But before launch the 633 will be on deck with five tuners a 100 hours of HD recording, so the 622 USB will die before seeing light of day. 

I don't feel cheated, in my business I stopped announcing upgrades and enhancements until they are live for at least two weeks, and even after that I've been burned. Can't win sometimes.

Maybe the hold up is more legal than technical. Hard drives are cheap, and the content owners might be concerned about consumers bypassing the HDMI copy protection and building massive and easilly copyable libraries on portable hard drives. Depending on formatting, once out of the 622, content control is out the window.


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## bkushner (Mar 17, 2006)

I am now being told not before Q4 on the external storage. I'm convinced we will never see it.

Brian


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Where did you hear this? Personally I think any date given out even through official channels is a guess at best... I Guess time will tell on this estimate just like the other ones we have seen.... Not dogging on your Brian, but you would be amazed at some of them.. They just seem to appear out of thin air. 

Well based on reports here, it is obvious it is being worked on.... Hopefully we will see it before Q4 of this year, because if we don't it is going to make the mods life here a lot harder keeping the rocks from flying.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

bkushner said:


> I am now being told not before Q4 on the external storage. I'm convinced we will never see it.
> 
> Brian


Don't be so pessimistic. It will be here 4th quarter of 2011 guaranteed.:lol:


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## Marriner (Jan 23, 2006)

My guess, and it is purely a guess, is that the delay on the release of this feature is not technical in nature. They are trying to figure out how to satisfy the copyright concerns and how to charge us for this new feature. (you don't expect it to be added for free, do you?)


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Marriner said:


> My guess, and it is purely a guess, is that the delay on the release of this feature is not technical in nature. They are trying to figure out how to satisfy the copyright concerns and how to charge us for this new feature. (you don't expect it to be added for free, do you?)


Not free not free how dare they charge us for every feature the can(can they?) not free I want to be free:grin:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

tomcrown1 said:


> Not free not free how dare they charge us for every feature the can(can they?) not free I want to be free:grin:


According your avatar, you're already free as a bird !( owl ?)


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

P Smith said:


> According your avatar, you're already free as a bird !( owl ?)


red tail hawk


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## Marriner (Jan 23, 2006)

tomcrown1 said:


> Not free not free how dare they charge us for every feature the can(can they?) not free I want to be free:grin:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

tomcrown1 said:


> red tail hawk


Did you shoot the picture ? Where ?

This one is better








or this


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## wyldbill (May 10, 2007)

While listening to Sports Radio during my morning commute (I live in the Denver Metro) I heard an ad extolling the virtues of using Dish's DVR. The ability to expand storage via the USB port to create a "multimedia library" was explicitly mentioned in the ad copy, which was read by one of the hosts. While the 622 wasn't mentioned by model, I wonder if this is significant? Are there other DISH DVR models that allow this?

FWIW,
-bill


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Nope, none of Dish's receivers currently support USB drives. The 622 is getting closer, though.


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## kstuart (Apr 25, 2002)

On Friday, Dish announced that this feature will be available on the 622 "this summer". There will be a one-time enablng fee which will create a number/code for your Dish account and the external drives will be tied to your account, not any one receiver. In fact, USB-enabled non-DVRs will be able to have some limited DVR features by connecting a USB drive - at some point further in the future.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Can you give us a pointer to this announcement?


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## alan s (Dec 6, 2004)

Last Saturday, on PBS, Hometime had a show about setting up a media room. Lots of time showing Dish equip and also mentioned that recordings could be archived thru the USB port. Probably by the time the episode has been repeated 10 times...it might be true


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## Saxman (May 27, 2007)

Even though it voids the warranty, has anyone successfully upgraded their hard drive?


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Saxman said:


> Even though it voids the warranty, has anyone successfully upgraded their hard drive?


Yes, but the software doesn't allow you any more disk space. It still slices the same size partition for your recordings.


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## yardbird (May 7, 2007)

A co-worker here was just telling me this morning that he was in the menus inside his DVR and he found a new thing that mentioned that he can connect a USB external hard drive and it had "enable - disable" selection. All I know at this time is that it's a non-HD DVR. He said he would call home and try to get his wife to read hime the model number of the DVR. 

Is this known? I mean is this showing up but you can't actually SELECT the "enable"?

Now I'm really curious what DVR model he has. 

*** edit - update ***

Ok he called home. I probably shouldn't have posted this in the 622 forum because it's a 522 at his house. Now I'm going to check my 625 when I get home and see if I also have this feature listed.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There is an EXT record function that will record to PocketDish instead of to the internal storage or on a non-DVR receiver. Perhaps that is what he is seeing?


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## yardbird (May 7, 2007)

James Long said:


> There is an EXT record function that will record to PocketDish instead of to the internal storage or on a non-DVR receiver. Perhaps that is what he is seeing?


No, I just asked him again to describe it. He said it definitely was not Pocket Dish related. He knows what Pocket Dish is. He said this was very specifically telling him he could record to an external USB hard drive with an "enable - disable" selection. I have asked him to check his system info when he gets home and let me know what software/firmware, whatever is shown on that screen.

It certainly has me anxiously waiting to get out of work and get home and check my 625 and see if anything similar is showing up in there.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well if you can... Ask him to take some screen pictures and post them here. Would be interesting to see them. I would be surprised that USB support would appear on the 625 first.


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## yardbird (May 7, 2007)

For clarity.... he's got a 522 ... it's ME that has the 625. How much sense would it make for USB support to hit a 522 first?  (I can't say as I've ever personally SEEN a 522)


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Even less likely I would expect...


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

I would bet anything he is talking about the ERD menu item (for pocketdish)


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## yardbird (May 7, 2007)

Ok he came in this morning and I asked him what he found out. It is definitely not the ERD for pocket dish. He connected a USB hard drive, it was recognized, and upon recognition it gave him additional options. HOWEVER.... every option he clicked on gave him a message "this feature is not yet supported".

Now... does that mean he has to call Dish and see if they have to "enable" something? It looks like all the functionality is sitting there waiting to be turned on. And unfortunately I did not have an opportunity to check my 625 last night... maybe I'll get to search around in the menu system tonight. 

Again... my coworker has a 522.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

The 622 has always done that. When you plug in any USB device it will look at the device to see if it contains any photo files (jpg's) that you can upload to the receiver for use with the slideshow facility. It also determines if it is a PocketDish device and offers other options for it.


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## yardbird (May 7, 2007)

ChuckA said:


> The 622 has always done that. When you plug in any USB device it will look at the device to see if it contains any photo files (jpg's) that you can upload to the receiver for use with the slideshow facility. It also determines if it is a PocketDish device and offers other options for it.


He's got a 522... not 622.

Same scenario? I've just never seen it before. Maybe I'm getting excited over nothing. I've not paid much attention to this in the past.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Yes, I know he has a 522. You said that sevral times. I never had one of those so I can't comment on what it does but it sounds like what the 622 has always done when you plug in a USB device. It does not sound like anything new.


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## yardbird (May 7, 2007)

ChuckA said:


> Yes, I know he has a 522. You said that sevral times. I never had one of those so I can't comment on what it does but it sounds like what the 622 has always done when you plug in a USB device. It does not sound like anything new.


Ahh... ok. I misunderstood your response above. When you mentioned 622 .... I now realize what you meant.

I've been reading here about everyone waiting for this external hard drive thing to be working and when he mentioned that he found something new in his menu system, well... my ears perked up. Apologies for the false alarm.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Screen shots would be appreciated. It is possible that they are "one step closer" on the 522 (actually having menu options) but it is also likely that it is something old that has been there for a while.


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## ArtV (Jun 10, 2006)

I don't know if these are of any use as they came from a 625 but perhaps they show the feature is in the works?

ArtV


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Oh, could you post pictures when you did the connection ( or just re-connect for that) ?


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## ArtV (Jun 10, 2006)

Here you go.

ArtV


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Hmm, what device you're connecting ? How Windows or Linux PC recognizing it ?


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## ArtV (Jun 10, 2006)

It's a 2 gig thumb drive. I have no external hard drives which I wish to move to the room with the 625. The options

Dish Recordings
Manage device 1
Send to device 2 

diappear when the drive is removed and all it says is no usb device connected.

ArtV


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Thanks, next time put on the TD a few pictures - well known fact it works that way.


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## ArtV (Jun 10, 2006)

OK, last pics for the evening. This is what it showed when I put the TD into the 622. The thumb drive did contain some photos. I have no idea if this is new but it showed up in the Multimedia menu and gave the same error.

ArtV


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Yep. Same screens you get when you connect a PocketDish except it does say "PocketDish" for the device.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Well, for 622 it works OK, so you should wait when Dish will fix it for 522/625.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

What works ok for the 622? I assume you mean the pocket Dish?


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## yardbird (May 7, 2007)

ChuckA said:


> Yep. Same screens you get when you connect a PocketDish except it does say "PocketDish" for the device.


Yeah I navigated menus without connecting a device and the USB references are under Multimedia.... which leads me to believe that you're right and it's just something I either A.) hadn't noticed before or B.) is relatively new and I only just now found it.

This does not negate the fact that since the USB port is active and the software is there for device connection discovery, it SHOULD be an easy matter to enable teh use of an external hard drive. (I say "SHOULD" be because I haven't looked into what software operates the DVRs at all)

Oh well... sorry if this was all old news in the end. I got excited.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

We already know that it is possible for the 622 to use the USB port to connect an external hard drive. A working demo has been shown by Dish several times now. It's just a matter of them getting their marketing ducks in a row and distributing the software update to do it.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Ron Barry said:


> What works ok for the 622? I assume you mean the pocket Dish?


A few devices, like digital cameras, flash drives, pocketdishes ( 4 types), logitech laser mouse, homeplug network.


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## rhorn01 (Sep 8, 2002)

William said:


> Here is a good price for a 500GB USB drive. I wish that E* would say for sure about USB storage.


Well, planning in advance.
I think I saw Best Buy currently has a 1 Tetrabyte drive on sale for about 350.00
I'm thinking about buying one for a music server.
But, can it be partitioned into two 500's?
One for music and the other for movies?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

rhorn01 said:


> Well, planning in advance.
> I think I saw Best Buy currently has a 1 Tetrabyte drive on sale for about 350.00
> I'm thinking about buying one for a music server.
> But, can it be partitioned into two 500's?
> One for music and the other for movies?


First off... Based on comments made during Tech Chats etc the initial release of USB External support will support drives up to 750GB (I would take this to mean physical drive dimension not logical). Also, without any information on sharing a USB External drive for another purpose I would not plan ahead.

personally I would wait until all details on External USB drive support are out and the feature has been released. Given past experience External USB drive prices seem to always go down not up.


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## polo (Jul 1, 2007)

JMikeF said:


> I've heard:
> 
> The USB external option will be available in Dec for the 622
> It will not be available for the older 942 receiver
> Question: will we be able to archive programs that are currently recorded? Or is it seemless - that is, we won't be able to specifiy external/internal - the sw sees it as one big virtual space.


is The USB external storage available for the vip622??

thanks ruben


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Yes, but for Dish testers only.


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## polo (Jul 1, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Yes, but for Dish testers only.


is there anyway i can get more storage space for vip622??

thanks ruben


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## Hunter Green (May 8, 2006)

Soon.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

polo said:


> is there anyway i can get more storage space for vip622??
> 
> thanks ruben


Not until External USB Drive support is added. Do a scan on USB External and you should get more hits and there is even a thread showing some pictures. I might have it linked at the Tips and useful link sticky at top


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## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

I want to know if it'll be compatible with something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817332008

It'll act as a single disk.


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## mwsmith2 (Nov 15, 2004)

Since it's not released yet, kinda hard to tell, eh?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It is easy to tell ... but to tell with any certainty? Wait for E* to tell you!

I would not be surprised to see a multidrive solution ... but the first step is to get a normal "WalMart" single USB drive to work well. USB drives have to work just as well for grandma as they do for the geek.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

But how they will convince grandma to shell out more $20 or $30 for it, if she already paid for the box at "WallMart".


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> But how they will convince grandma to shell out more $20 or $30 for it, if she already paid for the box at "WallMart".


At this point the size of the activation fee is a rumor. Please keep it labeled as such.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

So summer started 6/21 and ends like on 9/23 so we have 3 months to go for the external hard drive support to be made available.


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## olguy (Jan 9, 2006)

Last week I bought a Seagate FreeAgent 500 Gig at Best Buy for 139. I see on their web site they are at 179 today. Darn, if I'd been paying attention to this thread I might have gotten a couple more to get ready. :grin:


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

OK, now I am getting tired of waiting. The rumor mill has been promising the USB hard drive expansion since at least this time last year. I have been patient because there really isn't all that much high def content I care to time shift.

But now HBO is moving to 26 HD feeds. D* has announced that they are picking up many of the feeds and Dish hopefully won't be far behind. In all that programming, there just has to be something worth keeping.

HD content is reaching critical mass -- finally. 

We may even see the SciFi channel in HD someday, but my guess is that the Weather Channel will be it to the punch.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

FogCutter said:


> OK, now I am getting tired of waiting. The rumor mill has been promising the USB hard drive expansion since at least this time last year.


I understand impatience... but if you are impatient because of "the rumor mill" then you should be mad at the people spreading the rumors, right? Not Dish... since they aren't behind the rumors.

If mad at Dish, at least be mad because of what they have announced (or not announced)... don't be mad at them because a rumor someone else started turns out not to be true.


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## isleofjib (May 27, 2007)

i'm confused- didn't dish start this rumor by announcing it and talking it up on charlie chat?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hard to say where the first rumor came, since I have heard a number of them. Heck I seem to recall one that it was going to be released in the December last year release and that obviously was not the case. So part of the problem is Dish making projections, part of the problem is people making bold rumors, and the third is people actually believing these to the point of calling them promises.

Yes Dish does not help things with mentioning dates they were targeting. I don't know how many times I say it, some still choose to use these dates as hard dates . They are not, priorities change all the time and software development almost always takes longer than people expect. Of course, some have speculated that the hold up is because of Copyright issues. Perhaps that is true, I don't know, but I basically take that rumor and put it in the same bucket as the December release rumor. I believe the last statement from Dish was end of summer but then again, it is projected date and given other priorities and issues it of course can change. My opinion is.. It will arrive when it arrives and hopefully that will be soon because I would love the extra space.

For now.. patience is a virtue. Based on information from Dish and shows, it is happening so lets hope we see it soon.

Oh.. Remember this is the support forum... This thread has a high potential to rathole, lets try and keep on topic and remember the "No Bash" rule.

_Moderator Note: Bash rule No longer in effect since we moved it out of the support forum_


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Oh.. Remember this is the support forum... This thread has a high potential to rathole, lets try and keep on topic and remember the "No Bash" rule.


You know... I've posted in this thread, so I'm as guity as anyone... but it suddenly occurred to me... being a support forum, and USB external storage has not yet been released... isn't this whole thread really off-topic for the forum?

Maybe this thread should be in the general Dish forum since it can't possibly be a support thread with a product that doesn't yet exist for the general public.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I don't know what all the fuss is about? I hardly ever have less than 20 HD hours free on my 622 because I'm always afraid it will crash and I will lose all of the recordings so I watch them fairly quickly. Also, if there is something I want to save, I just copy it on to a DVD. I don't think I will be using the additional space once it becomes available.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Murphy has a way of converting even the most reverent optimist into a hardened pessimist, eventually…


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

HDMe said:


> You know... I've posted in this thread, so I'm as guity as anyone... but it suddenly occurred to me... being a support forum, and USB external storage has not yet been released... isn't this whole thread really off-topic for the forum?


What scares me is that makes sense in a circular sort of way. Heh. Orwell would be proud.

One reason to give flexible release dates is to stifle competition and keep people from shopping around. I am pleased with E* and the 622, so I'm not leaving. But I really want more content and storage.

Universal is running Battlestar from the beginning in HD and I'd love to archive it until it comes out on Bluray or whatever. 25 hours won't cut it.

Oh well. Life is hard.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E* does not exist as a distribution system for DVDs. They are a satellite television provider. The intent is that you _watch_ the programming. The ability to record it is secondary and the ability to archive it 'forever' is further down the list.

HDMe, you're right about this thread ... it probably should be closed since there is nothing to talk about related to support.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yeah HdMe... I have thought about moving it a few times..but since this seems to be the major new feature a lot of people are looking to talk about it I kept it here. So to open it up to more open talk, I will move it to the the general forum and keep a link here. That should work.

Ok.. its moved so support rules do not pertain in this thread any more and a more free discussion can occur. 

As for space.. I think lujan is in the minority here and most people hit the limit. I know i do and have to manage my storage a bit so not to loose something I have not gotten around to. USB external will still require managing storage, but I at least I don't have to make the decision of what content to dump.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Hopefully the hate will not flow freely now that this is out of the support forum... and I know why it was in the support forum for so long, since we have seen external storage demoed at CES, so we keep thinking maybe it is soon to be here.

My 622 is fairly full right now... but that's not so much because I am trying to archive things as it is I got behind in watching things, and wanted to watch several more things.. so I was recording faster than I was watching.

Admittedly, though, if/when external storage becomes available.. at that point I may consider keeping some recordings on the external drive for future watching. That would be a nice alternative to the HD/Blu-Ray right now since I have been boycotting both of those technologies for a few reasons.

So I would happily make use of the external drive should it become available "soon"


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> ...
> 
> As for space.. I think lujan is in the minority here and most people hit the limit. I know i do and have to manage my storage a bit so not to loose something I have not gotten around to. USB external will still require managing storage, but I at least I don't have to make the decision of what content to dump.


I might be in the minority for those people that read this forum, but I think I'm with the majority of all 622 owners/leasors.


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## david803sc (Jun 22, 2006)

There is a 1TB USB drive at Best Buy I will pick it up as soon as they release this update, I believe they said in the past that once released they would support sizes up to 1TB, so I should be good.

David


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I believe it was stated by Dish (Can't remember if this was in a charlie chat or at a show) that it would be released with a 750GB limit so I don't think a 1TB drive will be supported on release. Good idea to wait until final release and initial limitations of this feature are released.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

My cryptic opinion today (and it is just my opinion) is that external USB storage is a lot closer to becoming a reality than it used to be.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> I believe it was stated by Dish (Can't remember if this was in a charlie chat or at a show) that it would be released with a 750GB limit so I don't think a 1TB drive will be supported on release. Good idea to wait until final release and initial limitations of this feature are released.


I share this recollection from Charlie Chat.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

James Long said:


> E* does not exist as a distribution system for DVDs. They are a satellite television provider. The intent is that you _watch_ the programming. The ability to record it is secondary and the ability to archive it 'forever' is further down the list.


Well, that's true. The industry created the problem by selling us DVRs with 90+ hours of SD programming. After a few years of that capability going back to 25 hours is cruel. My problem is there will be weeks of nothing to watch, then 20+ hours of programming will land in a short time, so I am dumping things before I can watch them. Then the next drought starts. For example the Battlestar thing, it would be so nice to hold the episodes until I had time to enjoy them and still time shift the news and the day to day stuff. 25 hours just isn't enough.

I don't know, USB external HD seems to be a worthy support topic, especially with all the confusion afoot. This thread is certainly getting a lot of interest, it is directly tied to the 622, and resolution must come from E*. Readers are even buying drives in anticipation.

I don't have a vote, but this seems like a reasonable support issue.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

My first DVR had 30 hours ... by 622 has 30 hours (or ~200 SD).

One way of growing that is with MPEG4. I need to run the tests again, but one hour does not equal one hour all the time. The reduction in size that some scream about when it comes to mathematical picture quality is allowing us to fit more on our hard drives (and eventually our external drives).


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

James,

I think you are right. My guess is that the bit rate varies a lot. I can't measure it directly, but when projected there is a lot of pic quality differences from show to show.

My first DVR was the 722 with 90 hours, SD only of course. 

Be nice if we had some control over the compression rate, but I understand the need for simplicity for the end user. To that end bigger and multiple hard drives is the only way to go until something else supplants them. 

Compression has limits, but I have to say that MPEG4 is impressive visually. I was skeptical at first.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Perhaps 721 ? 

Newest 722 ( 622 with biggest disk ) not coming yet.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

721 it is. I was close. I've been running that old soldier for a long time and I keep hoping it will die to give me an excuse to buy another 622. Some creative wiring and I can view either DVR from any set, effectively doubling my drive space. Even after the external drive thing comes out I'll do that anyway. 

Inevitably only having two tuners becomes an issue during family viewing times. But you know, even if we had four tuners in each DVR, that probably wouldn't be enough, either.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

The only person with control over the bit rate sits in Colorado at the encoder controls. It has nothing to with simplicity for the user. There is no encoder in teh DVRs to adjust.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

I know. My thought is that having control of the bitrate post broadcast could allow more programming to be packed on the hard drive, although at the expense of pic quality, just like selecting the size and quality of a jpeg to shrink file size. Some shows just don't need the best PQ to be enjoyable, while others do.

The best solution is huge hard drives.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Its very cpu intensive to reencode video,


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## sgip2000 (Jun 5, 2007)

Ron Barry said:


> I believe it was stated by Dish (Can't remember if this was in a charlie chat or at a show) that it would be released with a 750GB limit so I don't think a 1TB drive will be supported on release. Good idea to wait until final release and initial limitations of this feature are released.


As with most computer related items, technology is constantly changing. E* stating that 750GB is the largest supported size is most likely due to there not being many USB drives larger than that yet.

I am assuming that a drive larger than 750GB would work but would only utilize 750GB of space.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

sgip2000 said:


> <skip>
> I am assuming that a drive larger than 750GB would work but would only utilize 750GB of space.


I hope Dish will not stick to their own rules to do that for _internal_ disks and will implement flexible approach for _external_ storage.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

P Smith said:


> I hope Dish will not stick to their own rules to do that for _internal_ disks and will implement flexible approach for _external_ storage.


I don't know the innards of the ViP series... but it could also be operating system and/or device driver dependent too. Could be that right now the code will not address a larger size external drive... but if/when such a drive becomes available they can address it then.

I remember back in the day several times hard drive capacity leap-frogged over what the PC BIOS could address contiguously, and what the operating system (DOS or Windows or Linux) could address.

So we really don't know what the limiting factor is that drove that statement during the Tech Chat about 750GB limitation. Also, if I remember correctly it sounded like they said something hedging about that limit, like "right now" or something which indicated it was something they expected to be able to work around in the future.


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## allargon (May 3, 2007)

sgip2000 said:


> As with most computer related items, technology is constantly changing. E* stating that 750GB is the largest supported size is most likely due to there not being many USB drives larger than that yet.
> 
> I am assuming that a drive larger than 750GB would work but would only utilize 750GB of space.


No kidding... I would prefer to stick a 4TB array on it. Then, I could go almost a week without having to delete anything! 

Seriously, I'm not sure if I would go 750 GB. The sweet spot in price per MB is currently 500 GB. Usually I can get an external 500GB drive for around $100.

We're all speculating anyway. The truth will come in August when we find out just how much we can store.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

Will the enabled drives be swappable? Fill one, plug in another, then switch as needed. Also, are the drives to be tied to on particular receiver?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HDMe said:


> I don't know the innards of the ViP series... but it could also be operating system and/or device driver dependent too. Could be that right now the code will not address a larger size external drive... but if/when such a drive becomes available they can address it then.<skip?.


No such limit in Linux kernel and its drivers for ViP serie.
This size hardcoded in Dish modules.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

FogCutter said:


> Will the enabled drives be swappable? Fill one, plug in another, then switch as needed. Also, are the drives to be tied to on particular receiver?


Perhaps reading the thread or use 'Search The Thread' ? - post#100 for start ..


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks, Post 100 had it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

sgip2000 said:


> As with most computer related items, technology is constantly changing. E* stating that 750GB is the largest supported size is most likely due to there not being many USB drives larger than that yet.


It is quite possible that this 750GB limit is just good advice based on their testing. More along the lines of "we support 750GB" and you are on your own if you try something larger and unsupported.


> I am assuming that a drive larger than 750GB would work but would only utilize 750GB of space.


I would not make that assumption. The test will be once these drives are in service and someone fires up a 1TB drive and see how much of it the 622 sees.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

P Smith said:


> No such limit in Linux kernel and its drivers for ViP serie.
> This size hardcoded in Dish modules.


That's good then... so maybe it will just be a matter of modifying the code and testing drives for them to support larger sizes.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

sgip2000 said:


> E* stating that 750GB is the largest supported size is most likely due to there not being many USB drives larger than that yet.


No, they said on the February Tech Forum they had tested 1TB which did not work. Since then, Scott G has reported they are already working to overcome that limit.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

One thing I am very grateful for is that it sounds like we are going to be able to use our own drives rather than being forced to buy specially formatted drives at three times what they should actually cost. 

That alone is worth some waiting. And if they crack the terabyte barrier, all the better.


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