# Why after more than 2 years is the HR2x so buggy?



## drill (Jun 28, 2006)

WHY AFTER BEING ON THE MARKET FOR 2 YEARS, CAN DIRECTV NOT GET THE STUPID BUGS OUT OF THEIR DVR SOFTWARE?!?

Yet another case where the HR20 does not record.

i have a recurring manual recording setup to record Sunday Night Football from 8pm until 12:30 am. i use a manual recording for SNF, because last year, my HR20 didn't record a couple of sunday night football games using a SL. after i switched to manual recurring recording, it didn't miss games.

tonight, after i finished watching the 4pm games, i decided to watch the pregame show on NBC. i started watching around 7:30. I stepped away about 7:45 to go fix dinner, so i hit record to get the rest of the pregame.

when i came back to watch the game at 10:30pm, it wasn't there. 

before anyone jumps in with you must have had a conflict, blah blah blah. there were NO conflicts. i had 1 other recording setup for 10pm. also, my MANUAL SNF recording is #1 priority in the priority list.

the problem is that i hit record on the pregame show. since in the guide, the pregame show goes until 8:15, that preempted my previous manual recording that was supposed to start at 8pm and go until 12:30 am on the same channel. it didn't prepend the time to the manual recording, or make 2 recordings, it just disregarded my manual repeating recording. why would a software programmer (or anyone else for that matter) think this is the right thing to do in this situation? what a stupid way for a DVR to work.

I am not a TIVO fanatic. I just want a DVR that does the one thing a DVR is supposed to do, record TV. I used a TIVO designed HDVR2 and HR10-250 for YEARS without missing recordings, and without the DVR doing stupid crap that noone would expect. But I can't go 3 months without at least one of my HR2x DVRs doing something stupid, locking up, or just plain missing a recording.

DIRECTV, I DO NOT CARE about being able to play mp3's, see pictures, or play video from my PC. i do NOT care about funky keyword searches. i do NOT care about tuning to a blacked out program and the DVR searching for a non-blacked out channel. I do NOT care about all the other "features" you keep adding if the DVR does not record TV programs. I pay for a DVR to record TV programs, the other stuff is fluff. Please get your DVR to record programs reliably first before working on ANYTHING else. PLEASE!!!


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

I have had a HR20 since 8-19-08 and I have not had any issues except the day last week where everyones DVR's were locking up and remotes unresponsive. That was one day. Never missed a recording that I know of. It has worked near perfectly for me to this point.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

drill said:


> WHY AFTER BEING ON THE MARKET FOR 2 YEARS, CAN DIRECTV NOT GET THE STUPID BUGS OUT OF THEIR DVR SOFTWARE?!?
> 
> Yet another case where the HR20 does not record.
> 
> ...


It should have given you a popup asking which you wanted to record.. When 2 recordings overlap.. I haven't seen this since I don't use manual record.. Definatly sounds like a bug to report..


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

I used the manual record today. It worked pretty good. Did what I asked of it anyways.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

if I understand right it teated the current live record request as the highest priority but did not warn you about the scheduled one. that is odd, seems to me that tuner never had to change channels so at worst case it should have made 2 recordings, 1 being the short pregame.
that seems messed up to me.


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## Bofurley (Oct 11, 2006)

I have had the HR 20 for almost two years, and have had absolutely no problems with it, other than the episode last week - which was a DTv problem, and not the HR 20. I have used the manual record a couple of times with no problems - knock on wood.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

My DVR is every bit as stable and dependable as my DirecTiVo. I've had my hr20 for over a year now, and it has been great.


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

It should have made 2 recordings he's right. Why it overrode IT. Who knows. Now saying that. Mine are extremly stable and I have 4


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## Starchy77 (Jul 18, 2008)

houskamp said:


> It should have given you a popup asking which you wanted to record.. When 2 recordings overlap.. I haven't seen this since I don't use manual record.. Definatly sounds like a bug to report..


If the overlap was on 2 recordings on the same channel (as the OP indicated), there should not have been any conflict. It should have just recorded both programs.... Sounds like a user error of some sort to me, but we would need more information.


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## jfulcher (Jun 5, 2007)

drill said:


> WHY AFTER BEING ON THE MARKET FOR 2 YEARS, CAN DIRECTV NOT GET THE STUPID BUGS OUT OF THEIR DVR SOFTWARE?!?
> 
> Yet another case where the HR20 does not record.
> 
> ...


I'm with you. Directv just doesn't get it and the HR2x series are hunks of crap. Directivos were WAY better and always will be. Thank god we'll have tivo back soon hopefully.


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## jfulcher (Jun 5, 2007)

man_rob said:


> My DVR is every bit as stable and dependable as my DirecTiVo. I've had my hr20 for over a year now, and it has been great.


BS! My two Directivos run solid as a rock - never had to reboot them. I won't tell you how many times I've had to reboot my HR20 and HR21 - it's just ridiculous. Just last week my HR20 and HR21 locked hard (again) and I missed an evening of recordings. Thanks Directv!


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

and we're off, no tivo could ever have a problem and anyone that hasn't had issues is full of it.
guess I'll drive staples through my coax so I can have issues and be part of the club.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

jfulcher said:


> BS! My two Directivos run solid as a rock - never had to reboot them. I won't tell you how many times I've had to reboot my HR20 and HR21 - it's just ridiculous. Just last week my HR20 and HR21 locked hard (again) and I missed an evening of recordings. Thanks Directv!


It's not BS, it's our experience vs. yours. My HR21 has been rock solid as well for the last 8 months besides a few bugs related to Beta CE releases.


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## lflorack (Dec 16, 2006)

jfulcher said:


> BS! My two Directivos run solid as a rock - never had to reboot them. I won't tell you how many times I've had to reboot my HR20 and HR21 - it's just ridiculous. Just last week my HR20 and HR21 locked hard (again) and I missed an evening of recordings. Thanks Directv!


That's a bit harsh -- and unrealistic. Just because our experiences don't match does not mean anything other than our experiences are different. I've had two HR20's (700 & 100) for well over a year -- even longer for the 700 -- and have never had an issue with either of them. Does tha make you wrong or my statement 'BS' because our experiences don't match? Of course not. BTW, I had two Tivos for a number of years before I got the HR20's. Both units have their merits.

Sorry to hear of your issues.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I really understand the issue here. I think there's a lot of good discussion to be had, but please let's not turn this into yet another HR2x vs. TiVo thread.


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> and we're off, no tivo could ever have a problem and anyone that hasn't had issues is full of it.
> guess I'll drive staples through my coax so I can have issues and be part of the club.


Or just be thankful that you don't have issues. Because, contrary to all the people who jump into threads like this one and state "I've never had a problem", the HR Series has LOADS of issues. The most prevalent is the inability to record reliably as the OP indicated here or has been documented in the HUGE black/grey/blank recording thread.

And just think, it may happen to you and individuals that it is happening to, don't typically go out and intentionally affect their equipment to be part of the club. I realize it was sarcasm on your part, but the insinuation was there that it is all self-inflicted.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

bradfjoh said:


> Or just be thankful that you don't have issues. Because, contrary to all the people who jump into threads like this one and state "I've never had a problem", the HR Series has LOADS of issues. The most prevalent is the inability to record reliably as the OP indicated here or has been documented in the HUGE black/grey/blank recording thread.
> 
> And just think, it may happen to you and individuals that it is happening to, don't typically go out and intentionally affect their equipment to be part of the club. I realize it was sarcasm on your part, but the insinuation was there that it is all self-inflicted.


read everything, you'll see that I agree there is a problem here that I think is software/machine related and not user related.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

bradfjoh said:


> Or just be thankful that you don't have issues. Because, contrary to all the people who jump into threads like this one and state "I've never had a problem", the HR Series has LOADS of issues. The most prevalent is the inability to record reliably as the OP indicated here or has been documented in the HUGE black/grey/blank recording thread.


I'm not going to deny that people are having problems, but it's not as universal as some suggest and some, not all, of the problems are caused by other factors - bad lnb's, bad bbc's, bad cables, misalligned dish, home electrical wiring issues, etc. - yet the HR2x gets blamed.

I have 4 HR2x's and my one and only bad recording (instant keep or delete dialog) came in January 2007 on my original HR20. Since then I have added 3 more HR2x's over time and have not had any issues with missed/bad recordings or lockups (other than the one caused by the faulty guide data last week). My 2nd HR20 did experience a drive failure and was replaced, but drives fail, it happens and you move on (the drive in my DirecTIVO was failing when I replaced it with an HR20).

Are there bugs in the software? I'm not going to say there aren't, just that in my experience using the HR2x, I haven't run across anything persistent or of such a nature as to prevent my HR2x's from operating as dvr's are expected to operate.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I dont think anyone thinks that there are zero bugs or issues (just take a look in the CE forum, all we deal with is trying to work out bugs and find issues), but I think that peoples experience with the core DVR recording features varies a lot. As I have said, I have not personally experienced many issues at all with my DVR recording features on my HR21. I have had plenty of other things like MediaShare issues, networking issues, etc., but my core recording functions have been solid. That does not mean yours must not be having issues either, but it does mean that there must be some variable in there that is doing this. Whether it be faulty hardware, setup, software, etc. is what we are trying to find out.

Truth be told a DVR is not an easy thing to master, lots of variables and lots of on the fly comparison and reliance on 3rd party sources that all has to be done perfectly. There is also a lot of variables depending on what shows out of the thousands out there you have setup to record. These are not excuses, just things to think about.

I do wish that the HR2x was totally rock solid, and I admit that it is not. But I also know it is a lot better and still improving compared to many other DVRs on the market.


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## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

Let's keep the HRXX vs. Tivo argument out of the thread and help a person in need. Also, the short lil "My DVR Works Fine" remarks aren't helping either.

Let's try and figure out why a Manual Recording did not work and what caused the conflict.

Could it be a Tuner Issue, a Channel issue, a recording conflict not discovered within the recordings or priority list?

The OP has already taken the steps to troubleshoot the situation but the problem still exists.


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## jfulcher (Jun 5, 2007)

Grentz said:


> It's not BS, it's our experience vs. yours. My HR21 has been rock solid as well for the last 8 months besides a few bugs related to Beta CE releases.


Need I remind you of the mass lockup on all HD DVRs last week? Out of 9 different people I know with HR2xs all of theirs locked up and had to have a RBR done.


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

To quote a great line.....

"Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get."

Some people have never had problems with their Tivo, some have. Some people have never had a problem with the HR2x series, some have. Does it mean that everyone of either box is a POS, no it doesnt. It just means that there is an inherent failure rate in every piece of electronic equipment out there. Has every computer you ever owned worked right 100% of the time? 

Lets help and not drag this out.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

jfulcher said:


> Need I remind you of the mass lockup on all HD DVRs last week? Out of 9 different people I know with HR2xs all of theirs locked up and had to have a RBR done.


Need I remind you that it had nothing to do with the actual HR2x. It was a transmission error on Directv's part. Guess what, if they sent a bad transmission targeted at the Tivos they would lock up too


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

We all had the "great lockup of 2008" happen, so there is no need to bring that into this. 

Directv made it clear that it was a problem on their side, and along with a fix we are past that. 

I have not had the same issue of missed recordings that many are reporting (I have read a lot of those just over the past month). I am not sure what the problems are.... but I can honestly tell you that I am more than happy with my HR2x DVRS, and I have 6 of them. 

I think its important to take a moment and find what the solution is. 

I occasionally go to my settings and look to make sure that I am getting a good signal on both tuners. That would be all 12 of them. In the past year I have had to replace a BBC that went bad, as well as the occasional tightening of cables, especially in the living room where the XBOX360 is as my kids and friends have a tendency to wreak havoc in that area.

All my numbers are in the mid-to-high 90's. How about some of you that are having problems? Can you post your signal strengths here?


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

Grentz said:


> Need I remind you that it had nothing to do with the actual HR2x. It was a transmission error on Directv's part. Guess what, if they sent a bad transmission targeted at the Tivos they would lock up too


It would be entirely to easy for people to recognize that fact. Instead it is much easier to make an uninformed misleading comment.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Even if there was only 1 tuner active, it shouldn't cancel the recurring manual recording as it's the highest priority. The 10:00 recording should have bit the dust.

What happened here, appears to be the result of a manual recording overlapping various programming blocks. I suspect that telling the HR2x to record the pre-game show while it was in progress resulted in a cancellation of the manual recording as the unit interpreted the manual recording as an extension of the pre-game show (since it started in that time block) and an override of the manual recording by the user.

In any event, that's not what the user intended. Since there shouldn't be any issues with starting the SNF manual record at 8:15 (the kickoff doesn't occur exactly then) there shouldn't be a reason to start the manual recording at 8:00. If you don't want to miss the pregame, then the solution is to start the manual recording at the start of the pregame or setup 2 manual recordings - 1 for the pregame and 1 for the game. While that doesn't solve the problem here, it will ensure it doesn't happen in the future.


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## jfulcher (Jun 5, 2007)

Grentz said:


> Need I remind you that it had nothing to do with the actual HR2x. It was a transmission error on Directv's part. Guess what, if they sent a bad transmission targeted at the Tivos they would lock up too


We don't know that. It's all in how the device handles what is sent to it. A little error checking isn't a bad thing.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

jfulcher said:


> BS! My two Directivos run solid as a rock - never had to reboot them. I won't tell you how many times I've had to reboot my HR20 and HR21 - it's just ridiculous. Just last week my HR20 and HR21 locked hard (again) and I missed an evening of recordings. Thanks Directv!


That's very unusual.

Have you posted questions about your problems? We may be able to help.

I have three HR2x's the oldest one going back to Jan '07 and very rarely have I ever had to reset.

I can count on one hand the number of lost recordings I've had.

If you have to reset that often there is something wrong and it's not the firmware.


jfulcher said:


> Need I remind you of the mass lockup on all HD DVRs last week? Out of 9 different people I know with HR2xs all of theirs locked up and had to have a RBR done.


That was definitly a weird situation. It's not the norm.

Mike


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

jfulcher said:


> Grentz said:
> 
> 
> > Need I remind you that it had nothing to do with the actual HR2x. It was a transmission error on Directv's part. Guess what, if they sent a bad transmission targeted at the Tivos they would lock up too
> ...


Actually, we do know this - it happened 2 years ago when guide data was updated for the HR20's and the TIVO's puked.


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## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

I ave had problems with both my HR20 and DirecTiVos. They both have locked up and/or spontaneously rebooted themselves within the past year. 

That's life, it's only TV.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Second warning... this is not another HR2x vs. DIRECTivo discussion, right?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bradfjoh said:


> ... the HR Series has LOADS of issues. The most prevalent is the inability to record reliably as the OP indicated here or has been documented in the HUGE black/grey/blank recording thread.


Some statistics ..

That thread was started on 4/28/2008 specifically requesting input

Thread age: 169 days
Number of posts: 351
Unique posters: 178
DBSTalk.com members: 72,284

I've attached the entire list of unique posters along with the number of posts by each user.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Some statistics ..
> 
> That thread was started on 4/28/2008 specifically requesting input
> 
> ...


So .25% of users from the website have reported this issue. Seems pretty accurate. Once again proving that the folks with the problems are the ones most likely to post. Very few folks post to say things are going well.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

drill said:


> WHY AFTER BEING ON THE MARKET FOR 2 YEARS, CAN DIRECTV NOT GET THE STUPID BUGS OUT OF THEIR DVR SOFTWARE?!?


Two quick questions: What is the full model number of the HR in question?



> prepend


What does this word mean? I read your post a couple times and I cannot figure out by the context what it means and every dictionary I go to says it doesn't exist. What did you mean?

Rich


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prepend

prepend jargon
/pree'pend'/ (by analogy with "append") To prefix or add to the beginning


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## Gweeto (Aug 17, 2006)

I have had a few problems on one of my HR-21s, most recently where after a reboot (because of the zero length recordings) I lost the entire second week of the fall schedule which made my wife really happy.

I was trying to remember to reboot my DVRs once a week and up until then I had not had a problem. However, it had been about 3 weeks since the last reboot when I had that issue. I am not saying it is a fix, but it seems when I reboot weekly I have very little problems. The guide is usually faster, audio issues are ok, etc... After about a week I notice stuff like my skip back is seriously delayed and stuff just runs slower. It is almost like the software has a memory leak in it or something.

For those having issues, I know you should not have to, but try rebooting it weekly, it might help.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> Some statistics ..
> 
> That thread was started on 4/28/2008 specifically requesting input
> 
> ...


Not everyone who is a DBSTalk member has an HR2x DVR - and some are not even D* subscribers. Or am I missing something here?


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

jfulcher said:


> BS! My two Directivos run solid as a rock - never had to reboot them. I won't tell you how many times I've had to reboot my HR20 and HR21 - it's just ridiculous. Just last week my HR20 and HR21 locked hard (again) and I missed an evening of recordings. Thanks Directv!


It's not BS. Why would I lie? I have no problems criticizing DirecTV where think they deserve it, and while I'm sure there are folks having issues, I believe the HR2x series has gotten a bad rap. My HR20 has never missed a recording, or recorded black or gray. It starts recording at the proper times. In over a year of use, I've only had to reboot it a few times. (My DirecTiVo by comparison needs a reboot just about every month.) I've had nothing but solid, stable, dependable service from my HR20.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

RCY said:


> Not everyone who is a DBSTalk member has an HR2x DVR - and some are not even D* subscribers. Or am I missing something here?


I'll bite. Steve just reported 1000 voters in the HD DVR wishlist poll. Assuming for a second that this represents the entire universe of HR2x users here at DBSTalk, the 178 unique posters in that thread would represent 17% of the HD DVR community. That is to say, hypothetically, 17% have had an issue with blank recordings.

Again, this assumes that there are only 1000 DirecTV HD DVR users out of the 72,000 registered members here.

Or am I missing something here?


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Some statistics ..
> 
> That thread was started on 4/28/2008 specifically requesting input
> 
> ...


Cool. Thanks for the stats. Anyway to find out how many individual instances have been reported at the site referenced in the first post of that thread? Or the number of unique users who submitted to that site, but not in the thread? Of the 72k members on DBSTalk, how many have an HR series DVR?

Hopefully, this is somewhat moot in that one of the posters in the blank recording thread stated that a CE release has some reference to a grey recording fix. 6 month turnaround is not thaaat bad. Not great, but not too bad.


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## jfulcher (Jun 5, 2007)

Gweeto said:


> I have had a few problems on one of my HR-21s, most recently where after a reboot (because of the zero length recordings) I lost the entire second week of the fall schedule which made my wife really happy.
> 
> I was trying to remember to reboot my DVRs once a week and up until then I had not had a problem. However, it had been about 3 weeks since the last reboot when I had that issue. I am not saying it is a fix, but it seems when I reboot weekly I have very little problems. The guide is usually faster, audio issues are ok, etc... After about a week I notice stuff like my skip back is seriously delayed and stuff just runs slower. It is almost like the software has a memory leak in it or something.
> 
> For those having issues, I know you should not have to, but try rebooting it weekly, it might help.


Reminds me of Windows NT 4.0. Weekly reboots!


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## jfulcher (Jun 5, 2007)

Ohh and check it out. HR21 has a solid green screen right now - no reaction to any button presses on the remote or front panel. Guess it's time for another RBR.

Quality product!  Man I can't wait for the new Tivo units.

I'd be happy if they would finally release the HDPC20 so I can use MCE.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

jfulcher said:


> Ohh and check it out. HR21 has a solid green screen right now - no reaction to any button presses on the remote or front panel. Guess it's time for another RBR.
> 
> Quality product!  Man I can't wait for the new Tivo units.
> 
> I'd be happy if they would finally release the HDPC20 so I can use MCE.


Can you tell us about your setup?

How about your signal levels?
Menu->Parental, Fav's & Setup->System Setup->Reset->Sat & Ant>View Signal Strength
Satellite transponders (32 total at 101°)
1-8 # # # # # # # #
9-16 # # # # # # # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #
25-32 # # # # # # # #

Satellite transponders (3 total at 110°)
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA #
9-16 NA # NA # NA NA NA NA

Satellite transponders (11 total at 119°)
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA # # #
25-32 # # # # # # # #

Satellite transponders (6 total at 99°(s))
1-8 # # # # # # NA NA
[Note: these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103°(s))
1-8 # # # # # # NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA # #
17-24 # # # # # # # #
[Note, these can be very slow to appear]

Satellite transponders (16 total at 103°(c))
1-8 # # # # # # # #
9-16 # # # # # # NA NA
17-24 # NA NA NA NA # NA NA

There is definitely something abnormal with you system. It shouldn't be causing you so many problems.

Mike.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

jfulcher said:


> Ohh and check it out. HR21 has a solid green screen right now - no reaction to any button presses on the remote or front panel. Guess it's time for another RBR.
> 
> Quality product!  Man I can't wait for the new Tivo units.
> 
> I'd be happy if they would finally release the HDPC20 so I can use MCE.


I agree with MicroBeta, lets find out some more about your setup as it could be an issue there.

If anything, why not move to Dish or Cable if you are so upset about it instead of just ranting around here? Most will buy out contracts even.


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

I thought this thread was about the way the software handled the OP's unique situation. What does all the other stuff in here have to do with that issue?

Anybody have a suggestion of how a number of us could test our boxes to see if we get the same result, which would be more evidence that, if not a software bug, it's a case of the software not warning the user as would be wise.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prepend
> 
> prepend jargon
> /pree'pend'/ (by analogy with "append") To prefix or add to the beginning


Thanx, I couldn't find it anywhere. Even Wackypedia doesn't have it. Kinda like "proactive" or "prioritize". Yuppy words that couldn't be found in a dictionary anywhere and were so commonly used that the dictionaries added them. That is how English grows. I just read an article the other day about the English language's ability to grow as opposed to other languages that are more rigid. Used French as an example.

I guess some sad day we'll find "irregardless" in a dictionary. Oops, just did, my spell checker accepted it as a word. Did you know that back in the 80s you could not find "America" in a dictionary? I have a couple of them and no "America".

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> I'll bite. Steve just reported 1000 voters in the HD DVR wishlist poll. Assuming for a second that this represents the entire universe of HR2x users here at DBSTalk, the 178 unique posters in that thread would represent 17% of the HD DVR community. That is to say, hypothetically, 17% have had an issue with blank recordings.
> 
> Again, this assumes that there are only 1000 DirecTV HD DVR users out of the 72,000 registered members here.





> Or am I missing something here?


I miss the "Soup Nazi" avatar. And I think there must be more than 1000 people on this forum that have HRs. Altho, when you think about it, we do seem to know who is who and that would not be possible if the number were in the tens of thousands. If only Chris would have built a data base into this forum that could be accessed by all...

Rich


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Grentz said:


> Need I remind you that it had nothing to do with the actual HR2x. It was a transmission error on Directv's part. Guess what, if they sent a bad transmission targeted at the Tivos they would lock up too


There is a school of thought that says that any manner of corrupt data should not cause the system to break down.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

harsh said:


> There is a school of thought that says that any manner of corrupt data should not cause the system to break down.


And reality says sh-- happens..


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

harsh said:


> There is a school of thought that says that any manner of corrupt data should not cause the system to break down.


How would that work? How could that work? All the systems and processes that I have worked on always had the occasional break down. Just curious, don't turn the "Attack Basset Hound" loose on me.

Rich


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## rb5505 (Dec 23, 2004)

i wish my hr20-100 & hr20-700 were as reliable as the hr10-250 & d11. it's just that simple in my case. i've had more problems and svc calls for the directv dvr's in 1 year then the tivos for 6 years. again, in my case. nothing else has changed except the dvr's and new parts to try to get them stable. i like many features on the directv models that are not on the tivo's. i long ago accepted the passing of the tivo line with directv. but like the original poster said, please directv get these things working! oh and ya, i too can't wait for the new tivo/directv model/s hopefully coming next year. i look forward to seeing the best of both platforms.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

houskamp said:


> And reality says sh-- happens..


That simple sentence says it all. The bad thing is that some people get pummeled with it at times and everything gets blown out of proportion.

Rich


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

jfulcher said:


> Ohh and check it out. HR21 has a solid green screen right now - no reaction to any button presses on the remote or front panel. Guess it's time for another RBR.
> 
> Quality product!  Man I can't wait for the new Tivo units.
> 
> I'd be happy if they would finally release the HDPC20 so I can use MCE.


that sounds like an hdmi drop.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rb5505 said:


> i wish my hr20-100 & hr20-700 were as reliable as the hr10-250 & d11. it's just that simple in my case. i've had more problems and svc calls for the directv dvr's in 1 year then the tivos for 6 years. again, in my case. nothing else has changed except the dvr's and new parts to try to get them stable. i like many features on the directv models that are not on the tivo's. i long ago accepted the passing of the tivo line with directv. but like the original poster said, please directv get these things working! oh and ya, i too can't wait for the new tivo/directv model/s hopefully coming next year. i look forward to seeing the best of both platforms.


The HRs are not even two years old, or are two years old just barely. And compared to what they were like when they first came out, they are amazingly improved. And vastly more stable.

And a whole lot cheaper than those new TiVos are gonna be. :lol:

Rich


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## rb5505 (Dec 23, 2004)

rich584 said:


> The HRs are not even two years old, or are two years old just barely. And compared to what they were like when they first came out, they are amazingly improved. And vastly more stable.
> 
> And a whole lot cheaper than those new TiVos are gonna be. :lol:
> 
> Rich


what you say might be true. i didn't leave tivo until just under a year ago. i'd read the directv models upon release were horrendous and were an embarrassment to directv. ask me if i'm surprised though, since their tech service is the worst i've ever experienced for any company i've ever dealt with. i do think they have come to a respectable level with their dvr's, when they work. however my original statement is still true. "i've had more problems and svc calls for the directv dvr's in 1 year then the tivos for 6 years. again, in my case".


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## drill (Jun 28, 2006)

i really did not intend for this to turn into a tivo versus HR debate. my desire was to vent my frustration at encountering another recording bug in the HR2x software after it was released as a consumer electronics device over 2 years ago. i have 15 years experience as a chip designer and software engineer. based on my professional experience, it is very difficult for me to accept bugs in core functionality of a consumer electronics device 2 years after a product release. unfortunately, i think this is the microsoft effect. microsoft has conditioned consumers to expect bugs. however, i don't want to accept bugs in my DVR software. i want it to record when i tell it to record!

the bug : a manual recording SL that starts in the middle of program A, and extends past the end of the program is tagged as recording program A (thats how its listed in the Todo list and Playlist). if tuned to program A before the manual recording SL starts, and record is pressed, the DVR interprets that as recording program A, and disregards the manual recording SL of program A, even though the manual recording SL extends past the end of program A.

the way i would EXPECT this to work is to record program A to its completion since record was pressed while watching it. and either 
1) create 1 recording, from the time record was pressed until the completion of the recurring manual recording including the extended MR time.
2) create a second recording for the manual recording SL
3) put up a warning indicating the manual recording SL is being preempted since record was pressed.

the DVR did neither of those possible reasonable solutions. instead it just disregarded my manual recording. a completely unreasonable solution from a user's perspective.

fwiw, this is repeatable behavior. i just tried it by setting up a manual recurring recording starting at 9:59 pm, lasting for 1 hour, on NBC. this shows up as recording "Heroes" since that is on from 9-10pm on NBC. the actual show that is "intended" to be recorded is "My Own Worst Enemy". at 9:55, tuned to NBC, i hit record. Heroes is recorded, and shows up as a 1 time recording in the playlist (1 record circle). the recording stops at 10pm and does not record the intended program.


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## KCCardsfan (Apr 18, 2007)

joshjr said:


> I have had a HR20 since 8-19-08 and I have not had any issues except the day last week where everyones DVR's were locking up and remotes unresponsive. That was one day. Never missed a recording that I know of. It has worked near perfectly for me to this point.


Same here, my HR20-700 (had it 22 months) has been fantastic and extremely reliable. However my 3+ year old R10 Tivo has always been and continues to be 'buggy'. Why doesn't Tivo fix it? Just finished my monthly restart because it once again slowed to a crawl.


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## kramer (Jun 6, 2007)

KCCardsfan said:


> Same here, my HR20-700 (had it 22 months) has been fantastic and extremely reliable. However my 3+ year old R10 Tivo has always been and continues to be 'buggy'. Why doesn't Tivo fix it? Just finished my monthly restart because it once again slowed to a crawl.


After the mod post twice not to go there you post this crap!:nono2:


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

drill said:


> i really did not intend for this to turn into a tivo versus HR debate. my desire was to vent my frustration at encountering another recording bug in the HR2x software after it was released as a consumer electronics device over 2 years ago. i have 15 years experience as a chip designer and software engineer. based on my professional experience, it is very difficult for me to accept bugs in core functionality of a consumer electronics device 2 years after a product release. unfortunately, i think this is the microsoft effect. microsoft has conditioned consumers to expect bugs. however, i don't want to accept bugs in my DVR software. i want it to record when i tell it to record!
> 
> the bug : a manual recording SL that starts in the middle of program A, and extends past the end of the program is tagged as recording program A (thats how its listed in the Todo list and Playlist). if tuned to program A before the manual recording SL starts, and record is pressed, the DVR interprets that as recording program A, and disregards the manual recording SL of program A, even though the manual recording SL extends past the end of program A.
> 
> ...


Weird.:scratchin

OK, IIUC, 
You schedule a manual recording starting 1 minute before the hour to run for an hour.
At sometime before the manual recording is set to start, you tune to that channel and press record.
The receiver records basically the time within the time slot you pressed record and ignores the manual recording.

I may not have that right because I'm not sure why you went to NBC and hit record. When you tuned to NBC and hit record what time was it?

It seems it should have recorded the portion of "Heroes" from the time you hit record to then end of it's time slot while the manual recording, on the same channel, should actually have overlapped that recording of "Heroes".

From this I can assume that you pressed record on "Heroes" at about one minute before the manual recording was set to record. It then recorded that one minute and for some reason took priority over the manual recording which it canceled.

I don't do manual recordings but it seems as if that's what happening.

If "My Own Worst Enemy" had been SL set to record with some padding on the front end and you also recorded "Heroes" you would have gotten overlap and both recordings.

For some reason the receiver isn't treating the manual recording the same way.

You should post this in the Issues thread at the top of this forum.

For the HR20:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=133239

Question, Why not creat the SL for "My Own Worst Enemy"? I realize you shouldn't have to and even though it should've worked with a manual recording, the SL would have done what your looking for.

I hope I understand what you trying to say. Post back and let us know if this is correct. We'll figure out what's up with your manual recordings.

Mike


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## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

I've had some software releases that work great and some that have caused forced resets several times a week. The version I'm on now, 0x0254 on the HR20-700, is unfortunately the latter.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rb5505 said:


> what you say might be true.


It's at least true in my experience. And what else can you base knowledge on? Nobody was born with the ability to comprehend DVRs, it is a learned experience. And even if you tell the truth based on your experiences, you get arguments from people who haven't had those bad experiences.



> i didn't leave tivo until just under a year ago. i'd read the directv models upon release were horrendous and were an embarrassment to directv.


You can't begin to imagine how bad it was two years ago. I don't even want to think about it. Why I stuck with the HRs is beyond me. Now, I think I did the right thing, but what D* did to consumers two years ago was terrible. To release a product that wasn't fully tested and certainly wasn't ready for the general public to use was a bad business decision.



> ask me if i'm surprised though, since their tech service is the worst i've ever experienced for any company i've ever dealt with.


I live in the NYC Metro area (Central NJ) and I have yet to see a "tech". I have installers come to my house, but nobody that I would call a technician. All the installers can do is install a dish and run cables. I just had a Slimline dish installed last February and it took three separate trips with three different installers to get it aligned properly. You're right, they are awful, for the most part. But once you learn how to do it yourself and can direct the installers, you get better results. I had one installer that didn't know you could turn the blue circle off. He was amazed when I did it and spent quite a bit of time picking my mind about other things related to the HRs. At least he was willing to learn.



> i do think they have come to a respectable level with their dvr's, when they work. however my original statement is still true. "i've had more problems and svc calls for the directv dvr's in 1 year then the tivos for 6 years. again, in my case".


I think the HRs are more than respectable now. I got rid of all my TiVos and have not regretted it. Takes patience. And you have to put up with a very steep learning curve.

Rich


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

drill said:


> i really did not intend for this to turn into a tivo versus HR debate. my desire was to vent my frustration at encountering another recording bug in the HR2x software after it was released as a consumer electronics device over 2 years ago. i have 15 years experience as a chip designer and software engineer. based on my professional experience, it is very difficult for me to accept bugs in core functionality of a consumer electronics device 2 years after a product release. unfortunately, i think this is the microsoft effect. microsoft has conditioned consumers to expect bugs. however, i don't want to accept bugs in my DVR software. i want it to record when i tell it to record!
> 
> the bug : a manual recording SL that starts in the middle of program A, and extends past the end of the program is tagged as recording program A (thats how its listed in the Todo list and Playlist). if tuned to program A before the manual recording SL starts, and record is pressed, the DVR interprets that as recording program A, and disregards the manual recording SL of program A, even though the manual recording SL extends past the end of program A.
> 
> ...


With the caveat that I'm on the latest CE, I tried to replicate your problem without success last night.

Here is what I did:

1) set a new manual recurring recording for MNF @ priority 1: 7:00-10:30 CDT (this starts 30 minutes before the pregame show ends)
2) pre-existing SL for CSI:Miami now @ priority 2: 9-10 CDT
3) pressed R to record ESPN MNCountdown ~ 6:45 CDT (show ended at 7:30)

At 7:00 the HR20 began the manual recording while continuing the recording begun when I pressed "R"

At 7:30 the pre-game show recording ended and the manual recording for the game continued.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> You can't begin to imagine how bad it was two years ago. I don't even want to think about it. Why I stuck with the HRs is beyond me. Now, I think I did the right thing, but what D* did to consumers two years ago was terrible. To release a product that wasn't fully tested and certainly wasn't ready for the general public to use was a bad business decision.


The only problem I had with my HR20-700 two years ago was sometimes bi-weekly lockups that required a morning red button reset.

Even then, I did not miss recordings. I've missed a total of one recording in two years.


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## willie_tee (Jan 26, 2007)

From my experiences, and I acknowledge that others have had different experiences, the HR2* and its software are very *immature* and *fragile* products. The technology I can't assess, only the end products of that technology.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> The only problem I had with my HR20-700 two years ago was sometimes bi-weekly lockups that required a morning red button reset.
> 
> Even then, I did not miss recordings. I've missed a total of one recording in two years.


I did have one 21-700 that was bad and I kept getting blank recordings on, but the Case Management Group replaced that with another 21-700. I have never seen a gray recording and hope I never do. Aside from that, the only programming problems we have are due to not programming the shows correctly. Can't help but wonder why the stations are running shows 59 minutes and 61 minutes, but the manual record option takes care of that and I have lost no shows due to the manual record function.

I do check weekly now to make sure all my shows will record and make adjustments if I see one with the X'd out circle on the To Do list.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

willie_tee said:


> From my experiences, and I acknowledge that others have had different experiences, the HR2* and its software are very *immature* and *fragile* products. The technology I can't assess, only the end products of that technology.


Ya gotta remember, they are only two years old and the 21s are finicky about having the proper signal. So, yeah, you're probably right. I wouldn't say fragile, finicky fits better. The 20-700s seem to be quite reliable and are not finicky.

Rich


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

I have four HR20-700’s (first one installed over two years ago) and they seem pretty solid. I probably get better than 95% reliability from them.
I came from Ultimate TV platform and I can’t say I’ve had any more issues with the HR20’s than the UTV’s. Those had occasional lockups, missed recordings, and other issues as well.

I can say the HR2x’s can be finicky about intermittent signal problems. A few months back, I was watching live TV and a scheduled recording started. Live TV went “gray” and the receiver locked-up. Well, it was actually working sort of, but it was ridiculously sluggish. I reset it and then it started giving me no signal on tuner 1. I found a loose crimp connector at the multiswitch. After fixing that, I’ve had no more of these issues. Oh, and I reboot my receivers usually just once a week (to download the CE release).


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## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

Well I just came home to a bricked machine, what's the excuse now after a month of reliable service? Birds having a party on my dish?


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

groove93 said:


> Well I just came home to a bricked machine, what's the excuse now after a month of reliable service? Birds having a party on my dish?


The answer is in your sig. Take it off the network and you may have fewer issues, seems to fix it for lots of folks.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Also, define ”bricked”. Does that mean no power, no lights, no signal? What if you unplug it for 10-15 minutes?


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## vikingguy (Aug 1, 2005)

ziggy29 said:


> I've had some software releases that work great and some that have caused forced resets several times a week. The version I'm on now, 0x0254 on the HR20-700, is unfortunately the latter.


That is how it is for me. The last release has been horrible for me 3 instant delete or keep now programs. I just wish I could refuse the updates unless it is a major one like DOD,MRV or DLB. My DVR was so damn stable for 6 months also. I would of not minded if the problems did not happen during the summer. I still use a hr10-250 for my most important OTA recordings like lost.

I think at times direct tv is trying to damn hard. Just to many updates I can see why there are so many problems.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

rudeney said:


> Also, define "bricked". Does that mean no power, no lights, no signal? What if you unplug it for 10-15 minutes?


It means that an electronic box's firmware has been screwed up to the point where the dang thing cannot be restarted (thus making it the functional equivalent of a brick).

If a cold reboot will restart it, it has not been bricked. Using "bricked" as a descriptor for a box that needs a cold reboot is just wrong. That's kinda like saying that an old car that has had it's carb temporarily flooded with gasoline has a "blown engine": it's just not true.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

russdog said:


> It means that an electronic box's firmware has been screwed up to the point where the dang thing won't even start up (thus making it the functional equivalent of a brick).
> 
> If a cold reboot will restart it, it has not been bricked.


Well, yes, of course I know what "bricked" is supposed to mean, but my point was to find out if groove93's IRD was actually "bricked" or if maybe it was some other issue. For example, my nephew told me his laptop was "bricked" so I took a look at it. It was getting a BSD after boot-up due to some crappy software he installed. I booted into safe mode, removed the offender, and all was well.


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## bobbyv (Sep 29, 2007)

My HR20-700 has started having issues again as well. All was fine until the mass lockup last week.

Now I've had at least 3 instances of "searching for satellite signal" on my locals as well as blank recordings on last Friday's Stargate Atlantis, and tonight's episode of NCIS on my local CBS affiliate.

Frankly I'm getting tired of it.


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## drill (Jun 28, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> Weird.:scratchin
> 
> OK, IIUC,
> You schedule a manual recording starting 1 minute before the hour to run for an hour.
> ...


You have it right. i tuned to NBC at 9:55 and hit record. it recorded 5 minutes and stopped at 10pm. i had a 5 minute recording of "Heroes" in my playlist. no recording from 10pm to 11pm on NBC for "My Own Worst Enemy". In my case, the manual recording was a recurring manual SL. i don't know if the recurring makes a difference.


> It seems it should have recorded the portion of "Heroes" from the time you hit record to then end of it's time slot while the manual recording, on the same channel, should actually have overlapped that recording of "Heroes".
> 
> From this I can assume that you pressed record on "Heroes" at about one minute before the manual recording was set to record. It then recorded that one minute and for some reason took priority over the manual recording which it canceled.
> 
> ...


thats probably true. but in my opinion, if a user sets up a manual recording, the DVR should record for that time period. It should NOT matter what is on the channel at that time. the ONLY things that should affect whether a manual recording records, are 1) user intervention to cancel or 2) priority setting in the prioritizer. since in this case, priority was #1, and I didn't cancel the recording, NOTHING should prevent it from recording the full time specified in the manual recording. the point of a manual recording is to get around any issues the DVR is having with actually recording what you want. i.e. manual recording means ... revert to VCR programming mode ... the most simple, easy to get right, no matter what, programming mode. As a user, all i want the DVR to do is record this channel from the start time until the end time. its really quite simple. but apparently its a little too complicated for the SW engineers at directv.



> Question, Why not creat the SL for "My Own Worst Enemy"? I realize you shouldn't have to and even though it should've worked with a manual recording, the SL would have done what your looking for.


well, in my case, my intent was to record sunday night football. since i had problems last year with my HR20 not recording sunday night football setup as a regular series list, i set it up to be a recurring manual recording. i wanted the 15 minutes before SNF too, and there is no padding option for a manual recording. so, i setup the recording to start at 8pm.

the basic problem is the DVR incorrectly thinks i am recording the program before SNF because of the 15m of prepadding. rather than a manual recording acting as a "dumb" recording (channel, start time, end time), the DVR is associating a program name with the recording. since the program name was recorded by hitting "record", it canceled my manual recording. i just checked the "history" and it shows up as Manual: Football Night in America, Canceled. the DVR indicates the reason for canceling is "This showing is over."

this is a totally broken implementation in my opinion.


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## bdcottle (Mar 28, 2008)

My apologies to those of you who are trying to help but I have to get on my soapbox.
When someone posts a thread about a problem they have had with their hr2x, here are some things that I personally don't want to see.

_I have not had any issues.
I have never missed a recording.
It has worked near perfectly for me.
I have had the HR 20 for almost two years, and have had absolutely no problems with it._
_My DVR is every bit as stable and dependable as my DirecTiVo.
My HR21 has been rock solid.
If a show doesn't record, it's usually caused by operator failure, not the HR._

These posts are not helpful. IMO this is very rude and makes those of us that have problems jealous.
We don't want to be posting our problems here. We want our DVR's to work as perfectly as yours do.
The best analogy I can think of is driving down the highway and you see someone on the side of the road broke down. You pull up beside them and say "My car never brakes down like that" Then drive away.
The last thing a person having a problem wants to hear is that you don't have any problems.
So please, please, PLEASE, stop it.
Ok getting off my soapbox now.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

bdcottle said:


> My apologies to those of you who are trying to help but I have to get on my soapbox.
> When someone posts a thread about a problem they have had with their hr2x, here are some things that I personally don't want to see.
> 
> _I have not had any issues.
> ...


I hear you, but sometimes, the way people post, it requires that kind of rebuttle because they lamblast the thing and claim that no ones works right and they all suck, and thats just not the case... also, if I where you, I'd want to compare setups with people who have no issues, because if you can find differences, maybe you can isolate your issues... I think that what you are saying goes both ways... Not trying to be rude, just point out the other side.....

There will soon be another NR of the software, and from what I have seen so far, it will be more stable than the last NR by a long shot... but I make no promises...


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## gatorbait2 (Sep 3, 2007)

I have run out of patience with my two HR20-700's after it botched the Sunday Ticket last week.

After one of the boxes lost signal on Satellite 1 for the 10,000th time, and the other one that I use as backup recorded about the first five minutes of the first games before asking if I wanted to delete the show, I let D* know I was not going to take it anymore.

I called for probably close to the 12th time and spoke with a cancellation specialist. He assured me that this was normal behavior and put me on hold for several minutes before returning to let me know that he had confirmed that due to copyright issues you can not actually record the NFL. Brillant.

I got rid of him and moved on to a "supervisor". He told me that the last rep was mistaken and that I actually have 24 hours after the game before the recordings delete. It is amazing how clueless these guys are.

I ignored his comment and told him I want new boxes. After a few minutes of telling me that there were no known issues, he finally discovered some information that the hr20-700's are know having "lots of recent issues" and that he would replace them for me this week.

Can't wait to see what I get. No confidence at all in this solution either.

Sorry about your pain. You are not alone.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

bdcottle said:


> My apologies to those of you who are trying to help but I have to get on my soapbox.
> When someone posts a thread about a problem they have had with their hr2x, here are some things that I personally don't want to see.
> 
> _I have not had any issues.
> ...


I understand how you feel, but sometimes we must counter the people who say "all I see are complaints about the model xxx" and "The model xxx is a piece of garbage."

Some people take the absence of positive posts as confirmation of systemwide problems when no such conclusions should be drawn.

But never fear, there will always be more negative posts than positive ones. If I were having the problems some folks are, I'd probably be posting about it every day.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

many times the posts include a statement like "has anyone else noticed?" should we not respond due to not having the issue?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

drill said:


> You have it right. i tuned to NBC at 9:55 and hit record. it recorded 5 minutes and stopped at 10pm. i had a 5 minute recording of "Heroes" in my playlist. no recording from 10pm to 11pm on NBC for "My Own Worst Enemy". In my case, the manual recording was a recurring manual SL. i don't know if the recurring makes a difference.
> 
> thats probably true. but in my opinion, if a user sets up a manual recording, the DVR should record for that time period. It should NOT matter what is on the channel at that time. the ONLY things that should affect whether a manual recording records, are 1) user intervention to cancel or 2) priority setting in the prioritizer. since in this case, priority was #1, and I didn't cancel the recording, NOTHING should prevent it from recording the full time specified in the manual recording. the point of a manual recording is to get around any issues the DVR is having with actually recording what you want. i.e. manual recording means ... revert to VCR programming mode ... the most simple, easy to get right, no matter what, programming mode. As a user, all i want the DVR to do is record this channel from the start time until the end time. its really quite simple. but apparently its a little too complicated for the SW engineers at directv.
> 
> ...


There definitely seems as if there is a disconnect in the logic of assignint priority to the manual recording and recording something on live TV.

Did you post this problem in the issues thread? It's important because it's read by DirecTV and you'll be sure they've seen your problem.

Mike


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## ticmxman (Aug 28, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I hear you, but sometimes, the way people post, it requires that kind of rebuttle because they lamblast the thing and claim that no ones works right and they all suck, and thats just not the case... also, if I where you, I'd want to compare setups with people who have no issues, because if you can find differences, maybe you can isolate your issues... I think that what you are saying goes both ways... Not trying to be rude, just point out the other side.....
> 
> There will soon be another NR of the software, and from what I have seen so far, it will be more stable than the last NR by a long shot... but I make no promises...


Well said! With a title like this thread has if I was a potential new customer and if there was no balance with some reports of no issues I would be scared off from D* HDDVRs and IMHO that would be wrong. The thing that this forum is so good at is trying to help look at setups etc and resolve a problem and share info so a post pro or con should always be welcome.

I look foward to the next release. I think I've missed 1 recording in a years use, the lip sinc issue seems to have been adressed either localy or by D*. I'm a pleased customer.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

If someone doesn't want to hear others' experience or an outright rebuttle (which is normally not necessary), then don't post. All forums work this way.

Should I post, "I don't want to hear from anyone having problems?"

We need data points on all sides of any issue that appears to be affecting these boxes. If some are and some aren't having the problem, there has to be a *reason*. The number of those having a particular problem, their setups and usage patterns provide invaluable information that may lead to a solution. Conversely, those not affected must have or be doing something *different*, from those who are.

All of this comes from personalizing responses, i.e., taking someone's comments about their experience with these boxes as if it were a personal issue ...which it isn't. These are inanimate objects, folks.

When someone posts an inflammatory comment or assessment which contradicts the reader's experience, it invites those with opposing experience to comment. Expecting them not to is ...well...shortsighted.

My HR21-200/AM21 has several obvious issues, that make using the box less than enjoyable, but its basic functionality is not impaired, *in most cases*. It needs work, and a lot of it in a *few* specific areas. I could ask, why is this particular combo so buggy, but that's the wrong question...in fact, it's less a question than an assertion so broadly stated that it conveys very little information and ends up setting a tone for disagreement while all the required help is lost in the noise. This combo has specific problems that do not plague the HR20 series or even the HR21-200 without the AM21.

If someone is *not* having the problems that have been discussed with the HR21-200/AM21 combo, I would *love* to hear from them. They hold important clues for the eventual solution of my issues. So instead of putting fingers in one's ears and blabbering over and over again, "I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear it"....ad nauseusm", I take the opposite position....*I'm all ears!*

My HR20-700 and HR20-100 are both very, very good across the board, and in no way would I characterize them as "so buggy". They aren't perfect, but *mine* are quite good.

So, let's step back, take a deep breath and realize that all of us want these boxes to perform, and the way to get there is to share information accurately, thoroughly and respectfully. These extraneous recriminations, hand wringing, hand waving and assorted finger-pointing histrionics serve no purpose other than an imaginary catharsis for people who are frustrated.

These responses contribute nothing to the ultimate solution (assuring continuing frustration). Let's stick to our knitting and move on. Considering the efforts by both users and D* itself, we have every reason to expect continuing progress. It may not be as fast or in the area any one individual is interested in, but substantial progress is evident to anyone who has been watching for a while.

Keep listing your problems and associated background and look carefully at those people who are *not* having the same experience. Answering the simple question, "Why are they not having the problem?" is the key to an eventual solution. So instead of telling them to shut up or you don't want to hear it, *invite* the contrary experience, as it is most likely to contain the very information you need to get the problem fixed.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> I hear you, but sometimes, the way people post, it requires that kind of rebuttle because they lamblast the thing and claim that no ones works right and they all suck, and thats just not the case... also, if I where you, I'd want to compare setups with people who have no issues, because if you can find differences, maybe you can isolate your issues... I think that what you are saying goes both ways... Not trying to be rude, just point out the other side.....


Right. To use the broken down on the highway analogy, it's like seeing someone broken down so you pull over. You ask them if you can help and they go into a tirade about how all the cars are pieces of crap and they don't work right and they can't believe the manufacturer can keep selling these things because they suck so bad and on and on. Every time you attempt to offer to look under the hood or try to help resolve the problem, they keep ranting and raving about how the cars are all crap. There's no point in sticking around since the person clearly doesn't want help, they just want to ***** and moan, so you get in the car and leave.

It goes both ways. If you want constructive help with problems, then post in a constructive way. If you just post that all the HR-20s suck, then you're going to get a bunch of replies from people who say their boxes work great. If you post that you're having XXX problem and you're looking for help, you'll replies from people trying to help you.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hasan said:


> We need data points on all sides of any issue that appears to be affecting these boxes.


Is the point helping the user that is having problems or being fanboys and apologists for the brand? Look back at the trouble reports and you'll find that many of the initial responses are that the problem doesn't exist and in a few rare cases, the troubled user is directly or indirectly implicated as a loser.

Those that are having the problems need to:

1. find a quick solution
2. be able to identify whether the problem is something that is worth pursuing a replacement

Hearing someone state only that they are substantially (or even entirely) trouble free suggests that everyone with a problem needs to pursue replacement receivers and/or truck rolls.

If you want to establish statistics, use a carefully crafted poll.

If you don't want to have too many threads, point questioners at existing threads and encourage searching.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Harsh, the title of this thread is a good illustration of why some of us feel compelled to post of our success with the hardware.

The thread title is not "Why is MY HR2x so buggy?" or "Why are SOME HR2xs so buggy?" Not even "Why are MOST Hr2xs so buggy?"

From the very first post, the thread is worded in such a way as to invite controversy.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

ticmxman said:


> Well said! With a title like this thread has if I was a potential new customer and if there was no balance with some reports of no issues I would be scared off from D* HDDVRs and IMHO that would be wrong. The thing that this forum is so good at is trying to help look at setups etc and resolve a problem and share info so a post pro or con should always be welcome.
> 
> I look foward to the next release. I think I've missed 1 recording in a years use, the lip sinc issue seems to have been adressed either localy or by D*. I'm a pleased customer.


Ha! You just did the one thing you said you wouldn't do! If you are going to post a "no problems" post, give details on your setup. Where do you live, what packages you signed up for, all equipment used, full list of everything you recorded, etc. The problem I see with the "no problems here" posters is that they don't do this. If they don't do this, then it is impossible to establish a pattern. These threads simply come and go with no resolution.

The same goes for people having problems, too. If you want to do D*'s work for them, since they are clearly unable to do it, we need full participation from you as well.

FYI, I'm a six sigma green belt. After two years, if this many boxes are still having problems, then they are garbage. There are simply way too many complaints and software updates that are not related to new features.

D* simply doesn't care enough to fix the major problems some of you are having. I didn't say they didn't care -- I said they don't care ENOUGH. D*'s future solution will be to offer these people a free upgrade to DirecTivo software (hey, at least this will be a major test point to see if it's the software or hardware at fault).


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

Some of the problems I am reading here could also be the result of overheated DVR's. 

None of us like how hot these boxes get. We can ALL agree on that. I have seen at least one of my units get locked up after overheating. Its most certainly worth it for Directv to look into this as a lot of subscribers have their components placed in areas where heat cannot dissipate properly. An overheated DVR can in fact lock up.

I read twice about posting signal strengths. Can those who are having problems kindly post their results?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> Is the point helping the user that is having problems or being fanboys and apologists for the brand? Look back at the trouble reports and you'll find that many of the initial responses are that the problem doesn't exist and in a few rare cases, the troubled user is directly or indirectly implicated as a loser.
> 
> Those that are having the problems need to:
> 
> ...


More specificity is good, to be sure, but every little bit helps. If I hear someone say they are trouble free on an issue I'm experiencing it doesn't suggest to me what you say above...it does cause me to think about the problem and try to get more context before I jump to some silly conclusion. A lot can be learned in a short time (roll truck or not, for example), with a smattering of reports and a bit of helpful troubleshooting. In depth problem solving requires much more detail, as you note above, but just knowing that a lot of people do or don't have the problem, can get one started.

...and being in a hurry for a quick solution is a bad start.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

barryb said:


> Some of the problems I am reading here could also be the result of overheated DVR's.
> 
> None of us like how hot these boxes get. We can ALL agree on that. I have seen at least one of my units get locked up after overheating. Its most certainly worth it for Directv to look into this as a lot of subscribers have their components placed in areas where heat cannot dissipate properly. An overheated DVR can in fact lock up.
> 
> I read twice about posting signal strengths. Can those who are having problems kindly post their results?


The OP responded to questions and we seem to have determined it's an incorrect behavior of manual recordings.

However, others have been encouraged to start a thread but they don't seem to have tried to get help yet.

All we can do is try. 

Mike


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

I think the good question may be, if most problems people have with the HR's is due to signal problems, bad lnbs, bad units or overheating problems...then why does directv keep sending out new releases every few months with 10-20 bug fixes for "recording problems" "tuning robustness" and other issues that appear related to problems with recordings?

To help the .25% of people that have problems? Right.

I'll say it again...a lot of people who say they have had no problems with the HR's dont seem to be very heavy users of the product. Seems most of the people who have trouble are folks who have put 50 SL's on there, do lots of back to back and overlapping recordings and use the box heavily.

That whole "usage model" thing is an enormous factor in the performance and issues associated with a complex device.

My mother in law still uses a ~10 year old computer with windows 95 on it. Its never been connected to the internet. Its base windows 95, no patches. She only types letters on it and stores/retrieves recipes.

She's never had a crash or noted anything wrong with it and has no plans to upgrade or replace it. She's never had a virus or a worm, or had anything bad happen to the computer.

Has that been everyone elses experience with Windows?

Mmmm hmmm...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

t_h said:


> I think the good question may be, if most problems people have with the HR's is due to signal problems, bad lnbs, bad units or overheating problems...then why does directv keep sending out new releases every few months with 10-20 bug fixes for "recording problems" "tuning robustness" and other issues that appear related to problems with recordings?
> 
> To help the .25% of people that have problems? Right.
> 
> ...


New releases aren't just about bug fixes.

They are also about features. After all, Directv has to make sure they remain competitive.

Before anyone yells at me that the receivers need to work to be competitive, you would be right.

However, for the most part they *do* work.

Otherwise they would be losing subscribers, which they aren't.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0727662320080807

BTW, I'm a heavy user of my DVRs. I have two in the livingroom to eliminate the recording conflicts. All my DVRs are networked. I do Media Share, VOD, Directv2PC. One DVR is connected to an AM21 and all three are on SWM. Oh, and I have very few issues. :grin:

I could be wrong but IMHO, most issues are related to installation.

Mike


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## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

I feel badly for the the people that are having problems. We want to figure out what is going on with your DVRs to help you get the most out of it.

Some of the things that can help us help you is as complete a description of your setup as possible. We need things like dish type. Installer or self-install. Type of cabling (RG6 vs. RG59). How many feet of cable between Dish and either multi-switch or DVR. type of cable-end connectors? (crimp or compression) Dish grounded? DVR? Using surge protectors or not. Networked? if so how?

The more information the better. This is a vary complex environment and no installation is exactly like the others.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> FYI, I'm a six sigma green belt.


Out of sheer ignorance I feel compelled to ask: What is a six sigma green belt?



> After two years, if this many boxes are still having problems, then they are garbage. There are simply way too many complaints and software updates that are not related to new features.


It has been a rough two years. Better now, much better. And if I could find a provider that was better than D* I would opt out and start over anew. But show me a better provider.



> D* simply doesn't care enough to fix the major problems some of you are having. I didn't say they didn't care -- I said they don't care ENOUGH.


I don't think it is that they don't care enough, I think it is because they don't know enough. Talked to any CSRs lately? Frustrating isn't it?



> D*'s future solution will be to offer these people a free upgrade to DirecTivo software (hey, at least this will be a major test point to see if it's the software or hardware at fault).


I don't think we are ever going to see an upgrade to TiVo software. I think the same thing that happened with UTV and the original D* TiVos will happen again. You send a bad receiver back and get a HD TiVo in return. Slowly but surely, TiVo will creep back into it's previous position as D*'s DVR of choice and the HRs will sleep with the Ultimate TV DVRs.

The opinions offered above are just that: opinions. My opinions based on my experiences. Nothing against D*. They jumped into a situation that they and their equipment were not ready for. I don't think they have failed miserably, but their willingness to allow TiVo to climb back on the bandwagon is an admission of their obvious need for help.

Rich


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

t_h said:


> I'll say it again...a lot of people who say they have had no problems with the HR's dont seem to be very heavy users of the product. Seems most of the people who have trouble are folks who have put 50 SL's on there, do lots of back to back and overlapping recordings and use the box heavily...


Define "heavy user". I have "only" about 30 SLs, but I do a lot of back to back and overlapping recordings. On some nights I have 5 or 6 recordings in a 3 hour window going. A few of the SLs are for kids shows that record every day and are set to autodelete, so they are deleting every day. I have my HR 20 networked and I use on demand once or twice a week. I think I'm a fairly heavy user, and I've never had a problem.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

rich584 said:


> I don't think they have failed miserably, but their willingness to allow TiVo to climb back on the bandwagon is an admission of their obvious need for help.


Maybe. Or it could be that they saw an opportunity to make some money. We'll never know the full reasons behind the move, but at the bottom of it is that they think it will be a money maker for them.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by rich584
> I don't think they have failed miserably, but their willingness to allow TiVo to climb back on the bandwagon is an admission of their obvious need for help.
> 
> Maybe. Or it could be that they saw an opportunity to make some money. We'll never know the full reasons behind the move, but at the bottom of it is that they think it will be a money maker for them.


I expect its symbiotic and just as profitable to Tivo.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

dbronstein said:


> Maybe. Or it could be that they saw an opportunity to make some money. We'll never know the full reasons behind the move, but at the bottom of it is that they think it will be a money maker for them.


John Malone in charge of D* and we had TiVo

News Corp gets control of D* and then we start getting D* branded DVR's made with software from a News Corp company.

John Malone in charge of D* TiVo is back.

Now there are probably more reasons but I would say this one is the biggie.

Here's the old news article in case people wonder if this is true or not.

http://digital-lifestyles.info/2004/11/30/nds-threaten-tivo-with-directv-pvr/


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> The opinions offered above are just that: opinions. My opinions based on my experiences. Nothing against D*. They jumped into a situation that they and their equipment were not ready for. I don't think they have failed miserably, but their willingness to allow TiVo to climb back on the bandwagon is an admission of their obvious need for help.
> 
> Rich


I'm not sure I would agree.

Directv's subscribership is rising without TiVo so it's not like they're hurting.

It's just a guess but I think it's about a business partnership not a bailout.

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> I'm not sure I would agree.
> 
> Directv's subscribership is rising without TiVo so it's not like they're hurting.
> 
> ...


They already have a business partnership in place with TiVo. I was told this by a member of the Case Management Group when I questioned him about the lack of DLBs on the HRs. Whether you choose to believe him is up to you. I spent an hour talking to him about various subjects related to D* and their services and I believed him. Make of it what you will. That conversation took place before the announcement was made about TiVo making HD TiVos for D*.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dbronstein said:


> Maybe. Or it could be that they saw an opportunity to make some money. We'll never know the full reasons behind the move, but at the bottom of it is that they think it will be a money maker for them.


It will certainly be a money maker for TiVo. They took a hit when D* started bringing out their proprietary DVRs.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> I expect its symbiotic and just as profitable to Tivo.


Certainly will be profitable for TiVo. And in a couple years, we'll be sending bad HRs back and getting TiVos in exchange. History has a habit of repeating itself.

That aside, what is a "six sigma green belt"?

OK, I got it. ""Six Sigma Green Belt", a certification level of the Six Sigma processes." Now if I just knew what that has to do with DVRs...

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> They already have a business partnership in place with TiVo. I was told this by a member of the Case Management Group when I questioned him about the lack of DLBs on the HRs. Whether you choose to believe him is up to you. I spent an hour talking to him about various subjects related to D* and their services and I believed him. Make of it what you will. That conversation took place before the announcement was made about TiVo making HD TiVos for D*.


IIRC, they did have a prior agreement with TiVo to support the legacy DirecTiVo boxes.

Also, IIRC, there was an agreement that neither company would take action for patent infringement for DVR features (you & I argued that one in the DLB thread ).

So...Your Case Management guy was correct. They've had an ongoing relationship.

This DVR agreement is something new but additional to previous agreements. I just don't see it as a cry for help. The fact that subscriber numbers are rising might imply such.

Mike


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm thinking it's more along the lines of tivo begging to get back in (due to loosing so many coustomers).. Directv finaly just said go ahead if you want..
Isn't there a thread on tivo already?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

houskamp said:


> I'm thinking it's more along the lines of tivo begging to get back in (due to loosing so many coustomers).. Directv finaly just said go ahead if you want..
> *Isn't there a thread on tivo already?*


This was in context of Directv needing to be bailed out due their failing HD-DVR line.

However, you are correct that this is not a TiVo thread but a buggy DVR thread. 

Mike


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

houskamp said:


> I'm thinking it's more along the lines of tivo begging to get back in (due to loosing so many coustomers).. Directv finaly just said go ahead if you want..
> Isn't there a thread on tivo already?


Do you realize how much it will cost D* to support a completely different interface and software? Its just naive to think Tivo begged to come back in and D* in the kindness of their heart agreed.

I know some of you guys dont want to believe it, but D* is not going to actively support and help develop a second product line of DVRs in the long run. It is too confusing to the customer and too costly for D*.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

raott said:


> Do you realize how much it will cost D* to support a completely different interface and software? Its just naive to think Tivo begged to come back in and D* in the kindness of their heart agreed.
> 
> I know some of you guys dont want to believe it, but D* is not going to actively support and help develop a second product line of DVRs in the long run. It is too confusing to the customer and too costly for D*.


They already support a ton of different units.. And since the new tivo will have an added cost I highly doubt they will just hand them out as replacements.. they will have to be specificaly ordered and paid for..


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

houskamp said:
 

> They already support a ton of different units.. And since the new tivo will have an added cost I highly doubt they will just hand them out as replacements.. they will have to be specificaly ordered and paid for..


They provide maintenace support for a "ton of different units". That is a big difference from development, production and actively supporting two completely separate brands of DVRs.

Your rationale behind why Tivo was brought back in is basically they begged to come back and D* allowed them to do so. That makes no business sense at all considering the cost to D* and marketplace confusion.

I think alot of the CE crowd was caught very off guard by the Tivo announcement and is engaging more in wishful thinking rather than business and marketing reality about what it means to the D* line of DVRs.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

raott said:


> They provide maintenace support for a "ton of different units". That is a big difference from development, production and actively supporting two completely separate brands of DVRs.
> 
> Your rationale behind why Tivo was brought back in is basically they begged to come back and D* allowed them to do so. That makes no business sense at all considering the cost to D* and marketplace confusion.
> 
> I think alot of the CE crowd was caught very off guard by the Tivo announcement and is engaging more in wishful thinking rather than business and marketing reality about what it means to the D* line of DVRs.


From what I've heard Directv won't be developing it at all.. that's all on tivo's shoulders..


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

houskamp said:


> From what I've heard Directv won't be developing it at all.. that's all on tivo's shoulders..


Your kidding yourself if you think D* will not be involved. They absolutely have to and should be involved, it is D*'s customers who will feel the pain if things go badly and the buck stops with D*.

D* will also have to train CSRs, train tech support, train installers etc, a very expensive process.

Again, looking at it with an objective view, it makes no sense to actively support two different systems. Tivo is a recognizable brand name and one that will attract the average consumer.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

There is a TiVo thread. 

:backtotop


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

paulman182 said:


> From the very first post, the thread is worded in such a way as to invite controversy.


I heartily agree that the subject is inflammatory, but I can also see where many have become frustrated with the fanboy and apologist "need" to unskew the average and "set the record straight".


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Sorry, I warned, I cajoled, I asked... this is the last post I will make on this: 

This is a thread about the HR2x series, in a forum about the HR2x series. The next post I see with a 4-letter-word starting with "T" and ending with "iVo" will force me to close this thread. 

You all have my sincere apologies but I do think I stated my case several times.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

think we already determined that the op simply found a hidden oversite in the program and I'm sure directv will be looking into it..
this thread is done..


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MicroBeta said:


> I could be wrong but IMHO, most issues are related to installation.


I'm guessing that you're mostly right.

The next step is for DIRECTV to do some sanity checking to make sure that the software deals with these issues in a controlled manner.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> I'm guessing that you're mostly right.
> 
> The next step is for DIRECTV to do some sanity checking to make sure that the software deals with these issues in a controlled manner.


I'm sorry, are you saying that software can over come installation issues?

Mike


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, if for example an installation issue created an error-ridden signal, software could theoretically handle that well or poorly. But you're right, in general if the site work is bad, there's no amount of software that will fully compensate for that.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

There was a patch put into the HR and R series about 6 mo ago that loosened the 771 signal a bit. Basically they changed the signal strength threshold for the message to appear. So while an installation might have still been good the receivers might have kicked into a 771 too soon based on weather.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MicroBeta said:


> I'm sorry, are you saying that software can over come installation issues?


Not so much overcome the issues as survive them.

I would also point out that installation faults may be created by self-righteous users who don't feel bound by the admonitions to not bury their receivers in an entertainment oven after the installer leaves. Turning down the temperature curves in the firmware may be able to address some of these problems. Some have noted that their late model receivers have much lower high temperatures than the drive threatening 129F of the HR20.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

harsh said:


> Not so much overcome the issues as survive them.
> 
> I would also point out that installation faults may be created by self-righteous users who don't feel bound by the admonitions to not bury their receivers in an entertainment oven after the installer leaves. Turning down the temperature curves in the firmware may be able to address some of these problems. Some have noted that their late model receivers have much lower high temperatures than the drive threatening 129F of the HR20.


You should call DirecTV right away and tell them how you can help...


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Tivo.


 

Sorry, couldn't help myself.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Tivo.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, couldn't help myself.


Yeah, just keep poking the bear.  :grin:


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> Yeah, just keep poking the bear.  :grin:


poke tivo poke tivo poke tivo :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

houskamp said:


> poke tivo poke tivo poke tivo :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


oh boy :nono2: :nono2:


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

houskamp said:


> poke tivo poke tivo poke tivo :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Ok, now that's funny!


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## Farsight (Jul 16, 2007)

I do like a lot about the HR2x units. Their UI is clean and the mahine's responsiveness is fast. They have features my old... uh... rhymes with Devo... did not.

But none of that matters when I've gone through multiple boxes, and still can't get one that does the basic job adequately. The 771s are gone, the lockups are gone, but the machine still can't handle recording and playback at the same time w/o glitching repeatedly on 5.1 audio (it seems like a minor issue until a good show has 20 loud chirps inserted into important dialogue).

Basic recording and playback are #1. And #2. And #s 3-10... until these machines can handle their primary job for more than the 'lucky ones', they're a failure.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

jeez, you know I refrained from saying 


> but I do think I stated my case several times.
> 
> Yes you did, mulTivo times


 just to be a good boy, and then I see this...


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

I just did a keyword search on my HR20 for “POKETIVONOW”. Guess what? It locked up!  :lol:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Well .. clearly this thread has run it's course ..


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