# You're stuck with me for another 24 months



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I just re-upped and boy, did I get a deal!

My free HD Access For 24 Months deal finally ended so I needed to call in to get it extended. I have been off of contract for quite a while so I thought, let's get everything I want. Why go for a measly $10 a month when I can score the whole kielbasa?

This is what I wanted in order of importance, and of course, at no charge, to go back on commitment:

1) Free HD Access reinstated.
2) To go from my unsupported WHDVR system to a supported one with DECA and SWiM.
3) Swap my H23 for a HR24 (I'd keep my HR20-700 and HR23).
4) Tweak my dish for better reception.

I called in directly to Retention (I didn't feel bad about escalating this right away as I never call DirecTV and I wanted someone who could take care of my requests.) and got a man I'll call Cyrano Jones.










Cyrano Jones was very helpful, as was I. We were laughing and joking all the way through the 45 minute conversation.

Easiest was giving me back free HD Access. That took a minute if not less.

The toughest thing was adding the DECA and SWiM. This is where I'm glad I called Retention. Cyrano Jones got creative by putting me into the Mover's Connection program. He told me I am moving. Imagine my surprise. But, because of that, I will get the DECA, SWiM, the Home Theater connection kit, multiswitch and any other hardware I need for free, beyond my DVRs and remotes, which I will bring along to my "new" house. We came across a roadblock because the system already thinks I have WHDVR. I currently pay DirecTV $3 a month for the service. But, in fact, I really don't have the standard system for WHDVR. I have the Beta test version from three years ago. Cyrano Jones went to his supervisor (Station Manager Lurry?), who understood my situation and removed the $3 payment. That accomplished, the system figured out just what I'll need in terms of hardware. The Mover's Connection deal will also take care of my dish tweak. Of course it will need to be tweaked, if not replaced, at my new location.

As for the HR24, Cyrano Jones was pleasantly surprised that I knew he couldn't guarantee me one. We talked for a while about my getting a $200 credit so I could buy one through Solid Signal. That would have been tough. It was then Cyrano Jones asked if I knew about the HR34? He could give me one for free, given my good standing with DirecTV. Yes, that would be just fine, thank you.

Finally, with all I was getting, Cyrano Jones said he could throw in NFL Sunday Ticket for free. I've never wanted to spend the extra money for ST as all I really care about are the Packers, but for free? If for nothing else, I'll enjoy the Red Zone...and watching Peyton Manning play for the Broncos.

So here is what I got for a new two year commitment:

1) Free HD Access.
2) Free upgrade to DECA and SWiM.
3) Free upgrade from H23 to HR34.
4) Free going through my system to make sure everything is OK, including dish alignment.
5) Free NFL Sunday Ticket

The appointment is for Thursday morning. I've already received the automated call from DirecTV confirming my appointment. I'll have to disconnect and move some things around before then. I'm just moving in, remember?

Thank you, DirecTV, and especially, thank you, Cyrano Jones! I'm going to spread tribbles throughout the house in your honor.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Well, I guess I'm happy for you. Seems like a rather shady move by Cyrano Jones though.

Mr. Jones should be ashamed... If he worked at a retail store would he just let his friends take the merchandise without paying? That seems to be what he did for you.

Again I'm happy for you - but geez....


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Wow. I've been out of contract for over a year, have no whole-home of any kind, and would love some upgrades like that. (I'm also being billed the full amount for Sunday Ticket.)

Mr. Spock, what's your percentage to act as my agent?


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

I just sold my stock before this gets accounted for in the next quarter.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

raott said:


> I just sold my stock before this gets accounted for in the next quarter.


!rolling

...and to make matters worse...Carl said we're stuck with him for at least 2 more years now.... :lol:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

"Mr. Spock, why aren't you dead?"


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> "Mr. Spock, why aren't you dead?"


!rolling

I am out of commitment as well, and I've been thinking of calling to try for free NFLST. After hearing this story, I may have to set my sights a bit higher.


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## dielray (Aug 5, 2009)

Carl Spock said:


> I'll have to disconnect and move some things around before then. I'm just moving in, remember?


You don't have to fake a move for the tech, he'll be more than happy to get paid for an install.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

Congratulations Mr. Spock. Enjoy your new setup.

Live long and prosper!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Hell of a deal. Congrats!!

I just got off the phone with D* about dropping back to NFLST and Choice Xtra from Premier. While the deal I got isn't nearly as the one you did, I ended up not dropping a thing and the bottom line being about $8 total more than I would pay with Xtra and keep Premier.

I'm a happy camper!


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> "Mr. Spock, why aren't you dead?"


"I've been dead before."

Thank you for all the complements. It was the old "you get more flies with honey" approach. Plus I am almost a year off of commitment, with Premier, and I'm not a pain in the butt. I really do never call unless I have a problem, and I rarely have problems. I save all my requests for discounts or freebies for once every 2-3 years when I recommit. I have always gotten what I wanted. In this case, obviously I got a lot more.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...and to make matters worse...Carl said we're stuck with him for at least 2 more years now.... :lol:


:slowgrin:


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Well, I guess I'm happy for you. Seems like a rather shady move by Cyrano Jones though.


Cyrano Jones went to his supervisor maybe three times in the course of putting this deal together. He wasn't a loose cannon.

Plus look at it this way. Even figuring no price increase in 2013 and 2014, which we both know is an impossibility, DirecTV will get about $3,600 from me over the course of the contract. It cost them a fancy DVR, a bunch of parts, a few hours of installation and ST for free this year. With the last one, they are just like any drug dealer. "First one's free, kid."

They're making money on this deal.



dielray said:


> You don't have to fake a move for the tech, he'll be more than happy to get paid for an install.


Of course, you're right.

Driving around town after I wrote this and preparing for Thursday's install in my mind, I'm going to move things to where they should be and disconnect the stuff that's gotta go. I'll make it easy on the installer because, that way, I'm more likely to get a correct installation.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> So here is what I got for a new two year commitment:
> 
> 1) Free HD Access.
> 2) Free upgrade to DECA and SWiM.
> ...


It beats a T-shirt! 



Carl Spock said:


> Cyrano Jones went to his supervisor maybe three times in the course of putting this deal together. He wasn't a loose cannon.


It's the 'fro discount... 

I used to get the 'stache discount... 

~Alan


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

What's worth noting, is you didn't write about any threats. I like the part about laughing and joking.

I've often found the CSR's at any company are more likely to go out of their way to help you when you make their day just a little brighter. Great example.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*Bartender:* Billie Jean is not my lover. She's just a girl who claims that I am the one. But the kid is not my son.


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

I hope the installer dose not leave all of his tribbles in your engine room!


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

We'll be at your house Thursday morning with coffee and donuts.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

A little bird just PM'd me to say that the Red Zone is not part of the regular Sunday Ticket package but is just in Sunday Ticket Max. As I have basically ignored Sunday Ticket all these years, I didn't even know there was Sunday Ticket Max. For $100, I can do without the Red Zone and watching football on my computer and phone.

Free is free, right? I am definitely not complaining.

Here's DirecTV's website on this difference:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/sports/nfl


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"Carl Spock" said:


> A little bird just PM'd me to say that the Red Zone is not part of the regular Sunday Ticket package but is just in Sunday Ticket Max. As I have basically ignored Sunday Ticket all these years, I didn't even know there was Sunday Ticket Max. For $100, I can do without the Red Zone and watching football on my computer and phone.
> 
> Free is free, right? I am definitely not complaining.
> 
> ...


It's changed over the years. Back in the day it was called Superfan and was what you needed for HD.


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## linuspbmo (Oct 2, 2009)

I hope you have better luck with a fake movers deal than I did. about two years ago I called in to retention to ask about a deal I had heard of with free Premiere for 6 months. The CSR worked for a while and said I was in luck and that he could put me in for the movers deal and get premiere free for six months and Sunday Ticket for free. I told him that I wasn't moving but he said the computer doesn't know that and set me up. Two months later I got the bill for full price for premiere and Sunday Ticket. When I called in to complain, the agent and a supervisor said that when I didn't get a date for the move the computer kicked out the deal and charged me full price. I had to make numerous calls over several months and had to get the VP's office involved before I got a credit to cover most, not all, of the cost. They also said they were going to discipline the retention agent for setting up a fake move. So keep an eye out, maybe they have changed their policy and allow fake moves but I would be wary.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Thanks for the word of warning. I do have a move and re-installation date. It's this Thursday. I also feel that I'm on safer ground in that Cyrano Jones' supervisor was involved in creating this deal.

There is also a difference between our two deals. Yours was a one way street; mine was a two way one. In yours, you were just trying to get free Premier and Sunday Ticket (I don't mean to imply there was anything wrong with you trying to accomplish that.). In mine, not only did I get free stuff, they got me back on contract. It was a win-win situation. If they want to void part of this deal, then they have to void it all. I'm not sure DirecTV would want to do that.

Nothing in life is for certain, including a free install from DirecTV. :grin:










*Bartender:* Shatner is going to be really pissed when he realizes you stole his toupee.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Great exposition! Great result! May inspire others, including your trusted and loyal correspondent....:lol:


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

linuspbmo said:


> I hope you have better luck with a fake movers deal than I did. about two years ago I called in to retention to ask about a deal I had heard of with free Premiere for 6 months. The CSR worked for a while and said I was in luck and that he could put me in for the movers deal and get premiere free for six months and Sunday Ticket for free. I told him that I wasn't moving but he said the computer doesn't know that and set me up. Two months later I got the bill for full price for premiere and Sunday Ticket. When I called in to complain, the agent and a supervisor said that when I didn't get a date for the move the computer kicked out the deal and charged me full price. I had to make numerous calls over several months and had to get the VP's office involved before I got a credit to cover most, not all, of the cost. They also said they were going to discipline the retention agent for setting up a fake move. So keep an eye out, maybe they have changed their policy and allow fake moves but I would be wary.


There are procedures in place to stop this kind of so yes be wary!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Great exposition! Great result! May inspire others, including your trusted and loyal correspondent....:lol:


I called the other day to see when my commitment ended and I was routed from the PP to another department. The CSR told me I have no commitment, and started offering me all kinds of goodies. Sadly, they have nothing I want. The CSR could not believe I didn't want a 34 or the football package (I get plenty of football games each week where I live, especially the Jets and Giants).

Give them a call, it seems like they'll give you anything you want to get you recommitted.

Had a nice conversation with the CSR, felt kinda sorry for him. When I explained to him that I had 24 tuners and 22TBs of capacity, he said he'd never talked to anyone with such a system. One of these days D* will come up with something I want.

Rich


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

From a post in *BubblePuppy's* excellent thread about his DECA piece catching on fire:



> Directv does read what is posted here (watch it Spock.  )


I need to say, first, that I know, BubblePuppy, you're teasing me. You made a joke and a good one at that. But like most jokes, there is a kernel truth behind it.

I thought about not starting this thread in the first place. I knew it was a risk although I had no idea it would be over the Mover's Connection part of the deal. It wouldn't take long for DirecTV to figure out who I am, even without either my or Cyrano Jones' real names being used here.

But I am counting on DirecTV's integrity. While, yes, I called in with my list of wants, it was their employees that made it happen. In fact, they suggested this specific course of action. I asked for Free HD and to get my dish tweaked. While I also told them I wanted a free DECA/SWiM installation and a third DVR, Cyrano Jones, with the involvement of his supervisor, came up with using the Mover's Connection to make it happen, the HR34 and free Sunday Ticket. I didn't suggest they give me any of the three. I expect DirecTV to back up their CSRs. A good boss stands behind his employees.

Because of these free goods, we, DirecTV and I, entered into a contract. It was a verbal one but as binding as any. I would become a customer for the next two years if they gave me a bunch of free stuff. I fully expect DirecTV to keep up their end of the contract. I plan to keep up mine.

Anything could happen and I could get a $600 bill two months from now for a WHDVR installation and a HR34. Fine. If they want to break the contract, then so do I. Let's go back to where we were a week ago. DirecTV can take back their HR34 and give me back my H23. Turn off Sunday Ticket. I'll mail them back all their DECA, SWiM and WHDVR parts and re-hook up my Ethernet multi-room set-up. It works perfect. We'll tear up the $600 bill. But, and this is the big BUT, they also have to take me back off contract. I'm a free agent. Fine by me. I can shop around.

I'd love to argue this point with them. In fact, a little bit of me hopes they do send me a bill just so we can have the biggest, most royal, down and dirty fight over this. I'd love to see them try to defend their position. I don't think they'd have a leg to stand on. They'd be breaking the contract, not me.

I really don't see this happening. In fact, given what you say, BubblePuppy, that DirecTV monitors this forum, I'm sure the decision has already been made. Over the past two days, DirecTV has looked up my underwear and has agreed to keep their end of the bargain. My install will happen tomorrow morning just like planned.

Like I said, I'm relying on DirecTV's integrity.


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## rgs825 (Jul 25, 2012)

Carl Spock said:


> Like I said, I'm relying on DirecTV's integrity.


Well, you are screwed. Good luck with that.

!rolling

:rolling:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Hmm... A fake 'move' to get around the system... DirecTV's integrity? Now that's a good one!:lol: The 'supervisor' that was involved will probably steal some little ol' lady's social security check to pay for your 'upgrade'!


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

It's like the integrity of a lawyer. I may not like a lawyer, his attitude or his methods. I might think he's a slime ball for his tactics. But I have yet to run into a lawyer who, when the deal is done and everyone shakes hands, doesn't keep his word. I'm sure there are lawyers out there whom you can't trust but I haven't found one, even lawyers I absolutely hate.

The fake move by DirecTV was playing a game to satisfy the customer. Back in my stereo store days, did I ever doctor a receipt to repair a customer's piece under warranty? Absolutely. Did I do it often? No. Did I do it if I thought the customer had actually abused the gear? Never. But did I change a date on a receipt to take care of a customer whose piece was two months out of warranty and just died a strange death? Yes. I don't even feel bad about it. If you want to say I don't have integrity, you're welcome to. But I think you would have wanted to be my customer.

I just got an automated call. The installer is an hour away.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Mr. Spock,
I'm glad you took my little attempt at humor as it was intended. We share the same type of humor. What the csr and sup. did was think outside the box and use flexibility which is a backbone of good customer service. It very well could that it had to be accomplished that way to get the computer to do what they want. You may not be the only one they have had to do this for. 
I'm very glad Directv rewarded your loyalty this way. In fact you may have noticed that you were the inspiration for me to suggest to the csr I talked to that I would be ok with getting a HR34 instead of the 2 HR24s. In my case Directv is going above and beyond to keep me as a satisfied and safe customer, and I'm not going to attribute anything other than that to their efforts.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Thanks, BP. I had missed that you changed your order to a HR34. I'm glad for whatever little inspiration I gave you. As you know, I think you are the model to follow with the outstanding way you've handled your situation.

The installer just arrived and we did a walkthrough. He's working now.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

"Carl Spock" said:


> Thanks, BP. I had missed that you changed your order to a HR34. I'm glad for whatever little inspiration I gave you. As you know, I think you are the model to follow with the outstanding way you've handled your situation.
> 
> The installer just arrived and we did a walkthrough. He's working now.


I did fail to mention (here) that yes I could get the HR34 for $399.00. I love my two HR24s. I did mention that to the tech who is flying in next week, he said I'm better off waiting. He wasn't all that gung-ho over the HR34. So I'll be interested in reading your experience with your HR34.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

It's gotta be better than my HR20-700 was back in 2007! 

I figure if I survived those growing pains, any problems the early software of the HR34 throws at me will be like a walk in the park.

It's really windy here today and the installer's ladder just went CRASH! as it fell away from the side of the house. The wind blew it down. Fortunately the installer wasn't on either the ladder or the top of the house at that moment. We came up with a shorter, more stable route for him to get up on the roof.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Oh! Don't remind me of those early HR20-700 days. Turned out to be a great box after all.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

BubblePuppy said:


> Oh! Don't remind me of those early HR20-700 days. *Turned out to be a great box after all.*


...until last year, when my HR20-700 slowed down significantly enough that I switched to FiOS.

Yes, and I tried all those tricks to speed the remote response up. They only worked for a short time.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

billsharpe said:


> ...until last year, when my HR20-700 slowed down significantly enough that I switched to FiOS.
> 
> Yes, and I tried all those tricks to speed the remote response up. They only worked for a short time.


I'm still nursing along my HR20-700, and have been able to remedy slowness when it occurs, so far.

How short is short, Mr. Sharpe?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

I know I was the first to mention the model but can we please not turn this into a HR20-700 thread?


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## VLaslow (Aug 16, 2006)

It'll be a pleasure to see your posts for another two years. Uh, unless my expiration next month causes me to leave.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

VLaslow said:


> It'll be a pleasure to see your posts for another two years. Uh, unless my expiration next month causes me to leave.


I assume you're referring to your *contract.*


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

:lol:

Yes, *VLaslow*, we certainly hope it's only your contract that would expire!

And thank you for the complement.

The tech just left. He did a fine job but I will still spend the rest of the afternoon finishing up the install. It isn't his fault. My system, with the HR34 hooking up into multiple other components, and with each DVR connecting into the whole house audio/video system, is really complex. Plus moving DVRs around the house means that remote codes are all kaflooey. I already know I won't get everything set back up today. I just ordered a $40 Cables2Go box that should arrive tomorrow. It will give me coax and optical digital outputs from the HR34. I need both.

But everything from DirecTV works. My signal strength from the satellite is much better. WHDVR is back. I sure missed it for the two days I didn't have it. The HR34 looks pretty. I should be all set...after I get everything all set up.

As usual, I did have to watch out for the installer being an installer. He almost took my now retired H23 receiver with him. Stop, noooo! DirecTV is going to want that back. That would have cost me a few hundred dollars. And I had to ask him to leave me a remote. I'm using a Harmony for the system that has the HR34 but I still want a DirecTV remote for special situations. Lastly, and maybe I should have mentioned something to the installer but didn't, as he was setting up the HR34, downloading its software and going through all the steps, he was talking to a fellow employee about how their job situation sucks. I can't remember any of the specifics but it was 20 minutes of solid *****ing. It was just poor form. Go outside for that conversation, would ya? I really should have said something to the installer about this. He was totally oblivious to the bad impression that conversation left with the customer.

One very nice thing was a piece of paper left by the installer with two local phone numbers in case I have problems in the next 90 days. This I like a lot. If I have a problem, I don't want to talk to a CSR in Idaho. I want to talk to the installer's supervisor. I have that number now.

I'll let you know what I think of the HR34 in a few days, after it's totally on board.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BubblePuppy said:


> Oh! Don't remind me of those early HR20-700 days. Turned out to be a great box after all.


Sadly, they seem to be expiring. I'm having problems with another one. I only have four left and I'll have to replace the one with the problems soon. I've only been using it as a server and still have issues with it.

I was looking inside one earlier this month and I couldn't see any way to replace the power supply. It's really easy to do in a 24, but the PS in a 20-700 appears to be part of the motherboard. Never had one fail for that reason (I have received purportedly refurbished 20-700s that were DOA, I'd assume a bad PS was the problem there), not one that I'd been using.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> :lol:
> 
> Yes, *VLaslow*, we certainly hope it's only your contract that would expire!
> 
> ...


Glad it worked out for you. I'd keep a close eye on my bill, tho. About the highlighted text: I always let the installer/tech take my unwanted equipment if he can/will. I write the RID# and access card number on his work sheet and keep the pink copy. Hasn't failed me yet. I've got a whole lot of pink sheets.

Rich


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

I would bet that you didnt get Rick from Hokah to do your system.. was this D* "training" another servicer? because that's the fool that I had at my house who wanted to charge me double.. cash in hand.. 

I would be very very careful with that guy..


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

No, it wasn't Rick. My installer was Jason and lives in Holmen (WI). Good guy. Very efficient and knowledgeable. He was no trainee. The whole install took less than 2 1/2 hours. It was booked for 3 1/2. I did introduce him to DBSTalk. When we were wrapping up the paperwork at the end, I opened up the First Look on the C31-700. "Seen this yet?" I asked. He hadn't and was very interested.

I shouldn't get down on him too much for the *****ing phone call in my living room. I ran a car install shop for over 20 years, along with a custom home install crew for nearly 15. I remember going to an Alpine seminar back in the late 1980s. When we sat down at the table, in front of us was this thick white paper with the title, "The Problem With Installers." It's so hard to find someone who is both good technically and with superior social skills. Maybe I had 3 guys, out of the 30 who floated through the store over the years as car or home installers, who were good with people. The rest were good with screwdrivers.










*Bartender:* Come on, now, finish it. The bet was you couldn't eat a whole cow.


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## caseyf5 (Mar 22, 2009)

Carl Spock said:


> From a post in *BubblePuppy's* excellent thread about his DECA piece catching on fire:
> 
> I need to say, first, that I know, BubblePuppy, you're teasing me. You made a joke and a good one at that. But like most jokes, there is a kernel truth behind it.
> 
> ...


Hello Carl Spock,

First of all I like your avatar ever since I have first set eyes upon it. I truly hope that you are correct about "integrity". :goofygrin As a side note I give you this quote.

"A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on".

Samuel Goldwyn

Integrity seems to be vanishing "faster than a speeding bullittt" if you pardon the pun. There are plenty of people and businesses that have integrity but the number seems to be decreasing on a daily basis.


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

A note on the subject of the "fake move"...


I worked in the call center for Directv over 5 years ago, and made it to "tier 2". I had a call where the install was discovered, a year or two later, to be causing a fire hazard in the customer's attic.

After calling up the chain, and mentioning that the install was the very thing that was causing the problem, and did we want to be on the hook for any damage to his house...

That rep checked with their supervisor, and they came up with the same work around: creating a ticket where the customer "moved" so that Directv could order a tech out to his place. This has to do with the amount of work Directv is ordering from the installers at the local level, not what they are agreeing to give to the customer. Fear not, this has been done before 

...Ok, ok, it's Directv, you can fear all you want, but this is simply a way for the department to get the installer the order they need so that they have the authority and the payment to do what you and Directv agreed upon


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## canekid (Mar 30, 2004)

OMG you Lucky BSTRD... 

Recently I upped to the HR34 for a two year contract. They replaced everything dishes, wiring, except I kept my HR20-700 like you. I upgraded the HDD in that puppy to 1TB and I wasn't going to give up all the shows I have recorded on it for a minute. Now I hear, they don't want those back, they let you keep'em. Woot! My upgrade wasn't free though, I did go through retention, and it did cost $99, but WOW I wasn't going to complain about that. Like you I was ooooohh so very nicey nice. I have learned over the years, don't ever pull rank on the hand that feeds you.. Smoooth gets you more than a baseball bat. Also I went strait for retention.

Now, for reason I am posting to your thread.

Yesterday I got a call from a DTV "Agent" I say "Agent" because I asked them if they were actually employed by DTV and they said no, but were calling on their behalf.

They had a deal for me. What? I just "raped" them and they were coming back for more! The offer is, ST Max, free for the whole season, 3 months of All premiums, Choice Ultimate, for $4.99 on top of my bill. All I have to do is agree to a 1 year contract from date of agreement.

I mentioned I was already on contract for 24 months, and they said that this was concurrent, and would not change the end date. If after 3 months I don't want to keep the movie channels, I can cancel them and keep the NFL ST Max for the rest of the season.

So I am thinking this is too good to be true and wonder if there is a catch. I went to my DTV account on line and looks legit, but anyone else get a call like that?

Thanks.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

danilko1 said:


> OMG you Lucky BSTRD...
> 
> Recently I upped to the HR34 for a two year contract. They replaced everything dishes, wiring, except I kept my HR20-700 like you. I upgraded the HDD in that puppy to 1TB and I wasn't going to give up all the shows I have recorded on it for a minute. Now I hear, they don't want those back, they let you keep'em. Woot! My upgrade wasn't free though, I did go through retention, and it did cost $99, but WOW I wasn't going to complain about that. Like you I was ooooohh so very nicey nice. I have learned over the years, don't ever pull rank on the hand that feeds you.. Smoooth gets you more than a baseball bat. Also I went strait for retention.
> 
> ...


Did they ask for your account number or your credit card? If they did, it's probably a scam.

Rich


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*Daniko1*, this doesn't sound real at all. I agree with *Rich*. I hope you didn't give them any info.

All somebody would have to do is drive around the neighborhood, see you have a DirecTV dish on your home, get your address from the numbers on your house or your mailbox, and use the Address and Neighbors tab at www.whitepages.com to find out your name and phone number. They could get enough info in an hour of driving down the street to scam a whole neighborhood.

If they call back, or if you can call this telemarketer, ask them for some information, like your account number and/or the receivers in your set-up, something only DirecTV would know.

I think this falls under the category of Too Good To Be True.


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## canekid (Mar 30, 2004)

Yes. What made me take it, I did not give them any info other than I had a contract and the HR34. They did know my name and the email address the account was connected to. 

When I logged into DTV the changes were already applied with some credits. So I am still holding my breath. They recorded the conversation in which I asked questions related to the details and contract terms in conjunction to my existing contract.

Other details I did not disclose to you. I have auto-pay. My current credit card was cancelled because someone tried to use it in another city. VISA is watching and if something doesn't look right, they will deny a change and lock the account. Anyway DTV called this morning and said my last bill charge was denied. I said I would fix it online, so I did. There my account showed everything the called mentioned, and for whatever reason, my denied bill was $33 less than normal.

So based on your feed back, no I didn't give out personal info. They knew who I was and had certain info about me, but not everything, IE they couldn't tell me how much my bill was currently or what my bill would be after the changes, other than $5 more than it is now. All I had to do was agree, to the 12 months while recorded.

I still don't understand what this promotion is based on. Maybe they just wanted to be sure I changed my credit card info?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*danilko1*, if some of the changes have already shown up on DirecTV's website, I change my mind. It must be a legitimate offer. I'm still glad you were cautious about giving them personal information. This would be an easy scam to do.

That's a good deal you got, too.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Some house cleaning from this thread:



caseyf5 said:


> "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on". Samuel Goldwyn


*caseyf5*, Samuel Goldwyn never had a hard drive recording all his conversations with movie people. I know my 45 minute phone call with Cyrano Jones was recorded. If it becomes necessary, that recording could be retrieved and my version of the contract could be verified. I really doubt it will come to that but it's nice to have that recording in my back pocket.

Speaking of Samuel Goldwyn, if you haven't read Goldwyn: A Biography by A. Scott Berg, you should. It's a fun read, telling great stories of early Hollywood.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -



AnonomissX said:


> A note on the subject of the "fake move"...
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...this is simply a way for the department to get the installer the order they need so that they have the authority and the payment to do what you and Directv agreed upon


Thanks for the confirmation that this kind of deal has happened before, *AnonomissX*. I assumed it had. It didn't seem like the idea of doing a fake move was a new one to Cyrano Jones, and as I have said upthread, his supervisor knew of the situation.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -



PCampbell said:


> I hope the installer does not leave all of his tribbles in your engine room!


Too late!










I need to get Cyrano Jones back on the phone. Working hard, he should be able to remove all the tribbles in my house in approximately 17.9 years. He can consider it job security.

- - - - - - - - - -

As long as I had a camera by my distribution, I cleared away the tribbles for long enough to take a picture. I've posted my distribution on DBSTalk in the past because I'm damn proud of it but there were some changes yesterday. In a 4' by 3' space, I have distribution for five different things:

1) DirecTV SWiM video distribution system to three DVRs
2) Multi-room audio distribution with keypad control
3) Telephone distribution
4) Wired Ethernet distribution
5) Wi-Fi wireless Internet distribution










Here is the same picture but this time with a legend:










If you want a better view, here is a high resolution version of the distribution.

The DirecTV gear was mounted by the installer yesterday. I took out the old multiswitch before he arrived, along with labeling the RG-6 feeds to make it easier for him to do the install. I told Jason he had to keep his work neat and he said no problem. Obviously, it wasn't. He did a very clean job.

Here's info on the Nuvo Essentia system. There are keypads in six rooms around the house, one for each zone. The music server on Nuvo's website is the new model. Mine is discontinued. The new model has Pandora and Internet radio stations but mine is bigger and will record uncompressed .wav files, not just mp3s, so it sounds better. The Nuvo amp is for three pairs of speakers with volume controls that are on the main floor of the house. Every room on the main floor is in Zone 1.

The three input audio/video switcher only switches line level audio and lets me to have the TV sound from any of the DVRs in the house feed the whole house audio system. I can wake up in the morning, turn on the TV in my bedroom and have that sound follow me into the bathroom. But if I'm having a Super Bowl party, the audio from the home theater can be piped throughout the house.

The Next Generation RF Repeater is a great box. It has much further range than the RF section of the DirecTV remote and can be used with multiple remote controls. I've used the Next Gen repeater for years in customer's houses.

Lost in the clutter is a Monoprice HDMI active two way splitter. The HR20-700 feeds two TVs, each with their own Next Gen transmitter. Most of the time I watch it on a 15" ViewSonic TV in the kitchen. It also feeds a 32" LG TV in the basement.


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## Jables (Apr 24, 2008)

Oh man, as hot as my HR20 gets there's no way I'd put all that stuff on top of one.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Jables said:


> Oh man, as hot as my HR20 gets there's no way I'd put all that stuff on top of one.


How hot does it get?


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## canekid (Mar 30, 2004)

Spock - That's impressive and umm so tidy. I go through phases where I tie things together and then, a level of frustration when I have to make changes, to which I say forget it. I like the clean look, but technically it's better if everything is loose.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*Jables*, my HR20-700 has never run that hot. Especially out in the open like it is, at the most it runs a little warm to the touch. I was more concerned about interference with radiation coming out of it affecting my Wi-Fi strength. When I laid this out a number of years ago, I also tried it with the router well away from the HR20. There was no difference in the Wi-Fi strength in the far reaches of my house.

*danilko1*, I am very conscious of interference between wires. For some reason, the run for the basement keypad, television and audio picks up interference so it is in a separate chase in the ceiling. I also keep separate types of wires away from each other. Power, line level audio and RF video runs are all separated. You are right in that the best way to reject interference is to have a total mess of spaghetti in an fug-ugly ball but that simply doesn't work for me, either appearance-wise or for upgrading and changing things around.

I got in the Cables2Go piece yesterday afternoon that will allow me to have both optical and coaxial digital outputs from the HR34. That's in the home theater system and I will probably tear down that whole system and rewire it this morning. It's been modified enough times over the past few years that the separation between different types of wire runs is no longer true.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

*Wiring Tip:* I shouldn't bury this at the end of a thread about my new contract but here it is. I tried a wiring tweak a little while ago that had a totally amazing result. I had a tech talk to me about electrical phase and getting that right. It was his thing.

When the electrical drop comes in from the pole, it is 230 volts AC, two phase. That means there are actually two separate 115 volt feeds with a common neutral. The two 115 volt feeds are out of phase with each other, making the total difference between them 230 volts, which is what you need to run your clothes dryer or stove.

But most of the stuff in your house is 115 volts. The standard way of wiring up an electrical box for 115 volts is to swap those two phases back and forth from breaker to breaker. I'll try to make this clearer. Let's call the two phases A and B. Starting with the upper left hand corner of the electrical box, the first breaker would be 115 volts on the A phase. The one below it would be 115 volt, B phase. The next one down would be back to the A phase, the one below it B phase, and so on.

The standard thinking is that this makes no difference. All we are concerned about with AC power is potential. You will have the same 115 volt swing from the neutral whether it be on the A or the B phase. This tech I talked to thought this was malarkey. He could hear a difference. He recommended that I separate all the stereo and video stuff in my house, and I have a lot, and put it all on one phase. Put things that can cause interference, like light dimmers and compact florescent light bulbs, and I also have a lot of those, on the other phase. I had my electrician come over and rewire my box. He'd run into this concept in high end wiring at the local hospital but never in a residential setting. He was game, though, and we went for it.

Wow! What a difference! I'd had problems before with buzzes and interference from the dimmers. Not any more. I have a high end vinyl system in the house wired up to its own set of 20 amp breakers using 10 gauge wire and hospital grade, 20 amp outlets (that difference I learned about 30 years ago) but I wasn't concerned about the electrical phase. The difference after the rewiring was huge. The stereo image of the system was much better, with greater depth and separation. It must be because the electrical background noise floor is lower. Audiophiles sometimes talk like videophiles. If I told you my Panasonic plasma has blacker blacks than a similar LCD TV, you'd understand what I was saying. The same thing is now true about my vinyl system. It has greater contrast now, with the blacks between the instruments blacker.

I recommend this tweak highly. Move all of the audio and video electronics in your house onto one phase of your drop. Keep the noise producing electrical appliances like dimmers and florescent lights on the other phase. Simple loads like incandescent lights make no difference and can go anywhere. You won't believe the difference.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I checked DirecTV's website this morning to see if the details of my install on Thursday had been posted. They have. Everything is like it should be and more. I was very pleasantly surprised to see not only my free Sunday Ticket up there but that Cyrano Jones has set me up with Sunday Ticket Max! Whoo-hoo! I did get the Red Zone after all. I owe that man a drink.

:goodjob:


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

You can also easily identify each outlet in your house and which phase it is on. Without any rewiring (and associated costs). With that information, you can go a long ways toward isolating noise producing items from audio/video systems (by carefully choosing which outlets you use). Not complete as having rewiring done, but often times you can isolate a noisy device on the opposite phase.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> *danilko1*, if some of the changes have already shown up on DirecTV's website, I change my mind. It must be a legitimate offer. I'm still glad you were cautious about giving them personal information. This would be an easy scam to do.
> 
> That's a good deal you got, too.
> 
> ...


Why the 2 8 way splitters? the top splitter looks like there's only 1 cable connected to it. A barrel connector would be much better. And the bottom one, there are only 3 cables attached to it. A 4 way splitter would be better.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

danilko1 said:


> OMG you Lucky BSTRD...
> 
> Yesterday I got a call from a DTV "Agent" I say "Agent" because I asked them if they were actually employed by DTV and they said no, but were calling on their behalf.
> 
> ...


 Here in S.A., there was a scam going on where installers were going door to door and offering special deals like you describe. The catch. They were switching people from DTV to Dish and Dish subs to DTV. People were being mislead into thinking they could have it all. One lady was interviewed on TV, and she saw them swapping receivers and found her DTV dish in the trash. She was not happy that they took her off DTV. In this case, Dish let her off the hook and DTV put her back on.

I would check with DTV to see if those deals are legitimate.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

kevinturcotte said:


> Why the 2 8 way splitters? the top splitter looks like there's only 1 cable connected to it. A barrel connector would be much better. And the bottom one, there are only 3 cables attached to it. A 4 way splitter would be better.


Kevin, I haven't considered the installation DirecTV did on Thursday because (1) I have never bothered to learn the nitty-gritty details of DECA and SWiM, and (2) the installation has worked flawlessly. Someone with greater knowledge than me would have to answer your questions.

So that they can, the top splitter feeds the HR-34.

On the bottom splitter, the two lower RG-6 wires go to my HR20 and HR23. The top RG-6 is the output from the Cinema Connection Kit.

Anybody have an opinion as to whether this was done correctly?


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Kevin, I haven't considered the installation DirecTV did on Thursday because (1) I have never bothered to learn the nitty-gritty details of DECA and SWiM, and (2) the installation has worked flawlessly. Someone with greater knowledge than me would have to answer your questions.
> 
> So that they can, the top splitter feeds the HR-34.
> 
> ...


The larger splitters introduce more loss. An 8 way splitter is really a two way, feeding two more two ways, which each feed another pair of two ways. Therefore, an 8 way splitter means the signal is really going through three 2 ways (and a 4 way is really two 2 ways). If your cable runs are short, it really doesn't matter because it is the total loss from switch to the furthest receiver that matters.

For minimum loss, I'd replace both 8 ways with 2 ways and feed the CCK on the same 2way as the HR34, with the HR20 and the HR23 on the other.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

So they are just like normal splitters regarding their loss of gain?

I know the loss through a regular 2-way RF splitter is 3db. A 4-way is generally considered to have a loss of 7db, with an 8-way 10 db. Would the loss be about the same with these SWiM splitters?

I'd have no problem getting two 2-way splitters from Solid Signal and changing this out. My cable runs are short but more gain is always good.


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## Jables (Apr 24, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> How hot does it get?


Info screen says my HR20-700 is at 126 degrees F, which is about normal. But all the heat pours out the top, so it's usually pretty toasty to the touch. But hey, if it's running OK, can't argue with that. It's a pretty looking setup.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> *Wiring Tip:* I shouldn't bury this at the end of a thread about my new contract but here it is. I tried a wiring tweak a little while ago that had a totally amazing result. I had a tech talk to me about electrical phase and getting that right. It was his thing.
> 
> *When the electrical drop comes in from the pole, it is 230 volts AC, two phase.* That means there are actually two separate 115 volt feeds with a common neutral. The two 115 volt feeds are out of phase with each other, making the total difference between them 230 volts, which is what you need to run your clothes dryer or stove.


That tech wasn't an electrician. What you have coming into your home is single phase 240VAC. The two hot wires are out of phase with each other, but it's still called single phase 240VAC. Or split phase 240VAC.

That said, he did have a point. Putting your electronics on one hot wire would be a good thing to do. Most folks don't have enough capacity in their panels to do that. Not enough breakers. Bet he didn't mention the 80% rule. Next time you see him tell him to brush up on his nomenclature. And I'd use a real electrician to check your box for overloaded wires if you only have a 100 amp service or less.

Actually, I thought what he explained to you was common knowledge. I have a hard time doing this, even with my 200 amp box, because of all the electronics I have in my home. If you were getting that much interference, I'd be concerned about loose connections on circuit breakers, receptacles, that sort of thing.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jables said:


> Info screen says my HR20-700 is at 126 degrees F, which is about normal. But all the heat pours out the top, so it's usually pretty toasty to the touch. But hey, if it's running OK, can't argue with that. It's a pretty looking setup.


123 to 126 degrees are the proper operating temps for a 20-700.

Rich


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## vapor21 (Sep 1, 2012)

Like Titan said remove the 8 ways you don't need them. You are loosing dbs. A 2 way splitter is -4db, 4 way is -8db and a 8 way is -12db... I also don't like the connectors that are coming into the swim16 he should had replaced those to dtv approved ones like the red ones you have on the other lines.


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## vapor21 (Sep 1, 2012)

Just saw this but when you remove the 8 ways make sure to terminate the other end of the PI, you are loosing dbs there too. Just get one of the terminators from one of the 8 ways.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*vapor21*, I have F-connector shorting plugs lying around here from my days as a home audio installer. Good point.

*Rich*, I'm the one who's not an electrician. My tech friend may have said split phase and I wrote two phase.

As for this idea being common knowledge, or even generally accepted practice, I got a PM on this issue from a forum member whose opinion I regard highly. In the nicest way, he debunked this theory. If it floated my boat, he was OK with it. He wouldn't go there. He would be more concerned about getting a great ground than worrying if everything was powered by one side of the service.

All I know is what I heard.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

vapor21 said:


> Like Titan said remove the 8 ways you don't need them. You are loosing dbs. A 2 way splitter is -4db, 4 way is -8db and a 8 way is -12db... I also don't like the connectors that are coming into the swim16 he should had replaced those to dtv approved ones like the red ones you have on the other lines.


Yeah, but you have to admit he did a great job of neatly wiring his installation.

I have a large utility room that has become a "junction box" for my home. I'd be ashamed to show you a picture of that, but it's pretty common to find in industrial buildings.

Rich


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## vapor21 (Sep 1, 2012)

Rich said:


> Yeah, but you have to admit he did a great job of neatly wiring his installation.
> 
> I have a large utility room that has become a "junction box" for my home. I'd be ashamed to show you a picture of that, but it's pretty common to find in industrial buildings.
> 
> Rich


He did a very good job. Its very clean.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> *vapor21*, I have F-connector shorting plugs lying around here from my days as a home audio installer. Good point.
> 
> *Rich*, I'm the one who's not an electrician. My tech friend may have said split phase and I wrote two phase.
> 
> ...


Is he an electrician?

You said you saw a difference after rewiring, that didn't surprise me. I didn't doubt you at all.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

vapor21 said:


> He did a very good job. Its very clean.


Better than I would have done. I used to make things that neat, but, since nobody but me and the township inspector ever look at my home wiring, I pretty much just run the wires. Sloppy, but the devices don't know the difference.

Rich


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## vapor21 (Sep 1, 2012)

I do installs for dtv so I'm just really picky when it comes to installs :lol:


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> So they are just like normal splitters regarding their loss of gain?
> 
> I know the loss through a regular 2-way RF splitter is 3db. A 4-way is generally considered to have a loss of 7db, with an 8-way 10 db. Would the loss be about the same with these SWiM splitters?
> 
> I'd have no problem getting two 2-way splitters from Solid Signal and changing this out. My cable runs are short but more gain is always good.


VOS explains it all: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2638788#post2638788


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

vapor21 said:


> I do installs for dtv so I'm just really picky when it comes to installs :lol:


Yup, I used to be that way, but I left the tools and went into management and kinda lost the urge to be really neat. Wire ties made things a lot sloppier too. Used to have to "serve" wires. What a PITA that was, but it really made things neat.

Rich


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

"Rich" said:


> Yup, I used to be that way, but I left the tools and went into management and kinda lost the urge to be really neat. Wire ties made things a lot sloppier too. Used to have to "serve" wires. What a PITA that was, but it really made things neat.
> 
> Rich


Frankly I always hated going into a wiring closet with 150 stations in it and needing to trace back a cable and having to clip tie wraps in order to do it. Unless the public is going to be viewing it I say being too neat is overrated for some things.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RAD said:


> Frankly I always hated going into a wiring closet with 150 stations in it and needing to trace back a cable and having to clip tie wraps in order to do it. Unless the public is going to be viewing it I say being too neat is overrated for some things.


That's so hard to explain to someone who's never had to do it. Huge, sloppy junction rooms just make it so much easier to work and it saves time.

Rich


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Being neat has one advantage. It gets you past the "tough as nails" electrical inspector. I was sweating out his inspection back when I created this distribution a few years ago. He never even looked twice at my install and instead said, "If it's neat, it's probably done right." 

Instead he looked at the electrical panel and insisted that most of the breakers be changed out for different ones. I'm glad he picked on the electrician, not me.

And thanks for everyone's input. I'll order up the two-way splitters from Solid Signal on Tuesday.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Jables said:


> Oh man, as hot as my HR20 gets there's no way I'd put all that stuff on top of one.


I must agree that the HR20 used as a "platform" like that is questionable.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Being neat has one advantage. It gets you past the "tough as nails" electrical inspector. I was sweating out his inspection back when I created this distribution a few years ago. He never even looked twice at my install and instead said, "If it's neat, it's probably done right."
> 
> Instead he looked at the electrical panel and insisted that most of the breakers be changed out for different ones. I'm glad he picked on the electrician, not me.
> 
> And thanks for everyone's input. I'll order up the two-way splitters from Solid Signal on Tuesday.


We've got an inspector that understands and doesn't inspect other installations than what the permit calls for. I had to put a sub panel in my house when I moved in and didn't get it inspected and he's never mentioned it. Nice guy, seems more comfy when talking to another electrician.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I must agree that the HR20 used as a "platform" like that is questionable.


I do stack mine with separators between them and the top 20-700 is usually the same temp as the bottom one. I tried just stacking them once, that didn't work nearly as well.

Rich


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I must agree that the HR20 used as a "platform" like that is questionable.


It's been that way for three years and hasn't been a problem. As I mentioned upthread, the top is barely warm, out in the open like that.

Scary was the time I accidentally left the window open in the bathroom above the distribution during a huge thunder storm. Water flooded the bathroom and seeped down around the toilet. There was water over all the electronics, including the HR20. I got lucky and didn't lose anything but I should have.

As for over-judicious electrical inspectors, in one of the stereo stores I built, the inspector insisted we rip out all of the CAT-5 we'd used for telephones and networking and replace it with plenum. He was right but, jeez. I think he did it just to make sure we knew he was the boss.

My relationship with the local inspector is different. The first time he was at my house his car died and I had to give him a jump. The irony of helping out the electrical inspector with electricity wasn't lost on either of us. We've had a joking relationship since then.

That doesn't mean he messes around. The inspector thinks the world of my electrician and he still made him change out most of the breakers he'd installed in a new 200A service for me. I've forgotten the details but there had been a change in the Minnesota code six months before and they were wrong. My electrician grumbled he must have missed the memo and that they were legal on the other side of the Mississippi River in Wisconsin.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*Back to my new gear. I have a HR34 question:*

I own a Sony DVD recorder with component video inputs. The source has to be 480i for the DVD recorder to see it. When I had it hooked up to a HR23, it worked fine for dubbing. I had to trick the receiver by turning off all resolutions except 480i but the HR23 then fed 480i out its component video jacks.

I can't get the HR34 to do the same thing. When I set up the home theater system today, I could get the DVD recorder to record just fine from the HR34's composite video output, switching the HR34 over to SD, but I couldn't get it to put a SD signal out the component video jacks. In SD, the jacks were dead. In HD (and I'd leave the HR23 in HD when I used this trick before), the DVR on its own switches the resolution from 480i to 480p. The DVD recorder won't record a 480p signal.

Is this a bug that I can expect to get fixed with time or is this just the way the software works with this piece?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

*Regarding my previous post:*
























_"Carl, we hate to tell you this but you are 
the only soul who has tried to get 480i 
from the component outputs of a HR34"_































I can take a hint.


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## VLaslow (Aug 16, 2006)

Mr. Spock, a very impressive setup. And, yes, it's the contract not the body that will be expiring. :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Obviously this technology has a money back guarantee...


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

McCoy: Perhaps, we could cover a little philosophical ground. Life...death...life...things of that nature.
Spock: I did not have time on Vulcan to review the philosophical disciplines. 
McCoy: C'mon, Spock, it's me, McCoy. You really have gone where no man's gone before. Can't you tell me what it felt like? 
Spock: It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference. 
McCoy: You're joking! 
Spock: A joke...is a story with a humorous climax. 
McCoy: You mean I have to die to discuss your insights on death? 
Spock: Forgive me, Doctor. I am receiving a number of distress calls. 
McCoy: I don't doubt it.


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> *Regarding my previous post:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, it means you need to upgrade your DVD recorder /me ducks


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## canekid (Mar 30, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> McCoy: Perhaps, we could cover a little philosophical ground. Life...death...life...things of that nature.
> Spock: I did not have time on Vulcan to review the philosophical disciplines.
> McCoy: C'mon, Spock, it's me, McCoy. You really have gone where no man's gone before. Can't you tell me what it felt like?
> Spock: It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference.
> ...


I leave my HR20-700 on to of my HTPC, and then I park a couple of USB HDDs on top of that. No prob. The HR20 is dedicated as a video server and a slave to the HTPC. Like you I don't worry about heat. These units seem indestructible. Knock on wood, (knock, knock, knock)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

danilko1 said:


> I leave my HR20-700 on to of my HTPC, and then I park a couple of USB HDDs on top of that. No prob. The HR20 is dedicated as a video server and a slave to the HTPC. Like you I don't worry about heat. *These units seem indestructible.* Knock on wood, (knock, knock, knock)


Wish that was true, but they're not. I've been having problems with mine (five 20-700s) for a while. I can usually fix the problems, but I don't see the same problems with the 24s.

Rich


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## canekid (Mar 30, 2004)

Rich said:


> Wish that was true, but they're not. *I've been having problems with mine* (five 20-700s) for a while. I can usually fix the problems, but I don't see the same problems with the 24s.
> 
> Rich


It that because they are old or because they aren't designed as well as the HR24s?

Do you believe DTV doesn't want these units back, or is that just rumor? I have heard it both ways. I certainly like that they have OTA built in. However, DTV has given me HD locals, more channels than I can currently get OTA, primaries only though. OTA I get tons more sub channels, but most of it is junk.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

danilko1 said:


> It that because they are old or because they aren't designed as well as the HR24s?


I would think it has to be age. Mine are used constantly and they seem to be developing problems. Still have a couple that "seem" rock solid, but one of them just started randomly rebooting. I really can't think of another reason why this would happen other than age.



> Do you believe DTV doesn't want these units back, or is that just rumor? I have heard it both ways. I certainly like that they have OTA built in. However, DTV has given me HD locals, more channels than I can currently get OTA, primaries only though. OTA I get tons more sub channels, but most of it is junk.


True, it is. They don't want them back. I'm not sure whether that's age related or the 20s have reached the point where D* can't use them as a tax write off anymore.

The interiors of the 24s are very different than the 20-700s. I have several owned 24s and I've changed power supplies in a couple, one for a friend, and it takes less time to do that than it does to install an HDD. I have looked and looked at the 20-700s and I can't see a way to change the power supplies. Never had a working 20-700 go down due to a bad power supply, but I was curious. In short, the 24s are much easier to work on than the 20-700s are.

Does that make it a better DVR over the long haul than a 20-700? I simply don't know. They are faster, easier to work on, nicer looking and seem very reliable, so far. We won't know if they'll last longer than the 20-700s until a few more years pass. I don't use the 20-700s for anything but servers now. I really prefer the 24-500 over the other two models.

Rich


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## Volman (Jul 13, 2007)

Rich said:


> I would think it has to be age. Mine are used constantly and they seem to be developing problems. Still have a couple that "seem" rock solid, but one of them just started randomly rebooting. I really can't think of another reason why this would happen other than age.
> 
> True, it is. They don't want them back. I'm not sure whether that's age related or the 20s have reached the point where D* can't use them as a tax write off anymore.
> 
> ...


Rich,

I was not aware that the HR20's were starting to fail. My current DVRs are an HR20-700 and a 100. I run eSata's on both. So, if they fail, I'll want something that works well with eSata. I saw you mention that the HR24-500 was iffy with eSata.

Bottom line is: what receivers *currently available....and one I'd likely receive* is DirecTV using for replacements? BTW, I'm happy with a 1TB size and use off-air.

Thanks! Fred


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Volman said:


> Rich,
> 
> I was not aware that the HR20's were starting to fail. My current DVRs are an HR20-700 and a 100. I run eSata's on both. So, if they fail, I'll want something that works well with eSata. I saw you mention that the HR24-500 was iffy with eSata.
> 
> ...


We have 2 HR24s, 2 HR21s and 2 H25s. If it were not for the lack of a live buffer on the H25s, I use them in place of the 21s. The 24s are in our two main viewing locations because they are infinitely faster than the 21s. We use the H25s in the kitchen and the spare bedroom (where it also hosts a Slingbox) because, again, they are fast and we can live without the buffer in those locations.

One of the 24s replaced our old HR20 when its drive failed...since we lost all the recordings anyway, we figured we would retire the box before it failed from age.

IMHO, the HR24 is the only DVR to use for viewing. The slow response of the older DVRs is simply too frustrating. We have 1TB externals on both HR24s and both started up without any hassles. Of course, you'll need an AM21 for off-air with a 24, and those are reportedly getting tougher to get.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Volman said:


> Rich,
> 
> I was not aware that the HR20's were starting to fail. My current DVRs are an HR20-700 and a 100. I run eSata's on both. So, if they fail, I'll want something that works well with eSata. I saw you mention that the HR24-500 was iffy with eSata.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure the 24-500s still have that problem. I only have one leased and I had a terrible time getting the TT + 2TB drive recognized. Ended up using a brand new TT and that finally worked. None of the external devices I used were faulty, I took them from other HRs where they were happily chugging along and put them back on the same HRs where they are still working.

I have three 24-100s that are leased and two of them have the docks on them and work well. I had one owned 24-200 and it worked well with a dock, too. Damn near impossible to put an HDD in them. Not easy with the 24-100s either. But both the 100s and the 200 worked well with the TT docks and the WD Caviar Green HDDs.

One word of caution about the 200s and the 100s, the nuts that hold the coax cable barrels are usually loose and if you tighten the coax fitting it will turn and break the link inside the box that connects to the barrel. In other words, because the nut is not properly tightened, the barrel turns.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> We have 2 HR24s, 2 HR21s and 2 H25s. If it were not for the lack of a live buffer on the H25s, I use them in place of the 21s. The 24s are in our two main viewing locations because they are infinitely faster than the 21s. We use the H25s in the kitchen and the spare bedroom (where it also hosts a Slingbox) because, again, they are fast and we can live without the buffer in those locations.
> 
> One of the 24s replaced our old HR20 when its drive failed...since we lost all the recordings anyway, we figured we would retire the box before it failed from age.
> 
> IMHO, the HR24 is the only DVR to use for viewing. The slow response of the older DVRs is simply too frustrating. We have 1TB externals on both HR24s and both started up without any hassles. Of course, you'll need an AM21 for off-air with a 24, and those are reportedly getting tougher to get.


If you read my answer to Fred it will agree with your post. Are either of your two 24s 24-500s?

Rich


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

One is a 500, the other is a 100.


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## Volman (Jul 13, 2007)

Thanks,guys. Any idea what DirecTV is typically sending out as replacements for HR20s that die?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Whatever is in the barn.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Titan25 said:


> One is a 500, the other is a 100.


Is the 500 the one you had the failed external HDD on? I'd like to hear from more people that are using externals with the 24-500s and see if the original difficulty has been resolved.

Rich


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

The 2 way splitters for my distribution came on on Friday and I replaced the 8 ways with them over the weekend.

I took this opportunity to do some overall updating of my distribution. I'd added and changed things over the past couple of years but hadn't really tucked away wires and redid the looms. The Monoprice HDMI splitter that feeds the output of the HR20 to both my basement and kitchen got mounted to the board and I swapped out the Nuvo power amp that drives three pairs of speakers on volume controls with a Sonance one. I had compatibility issues with the Nuvo amp.

Also added to the distribution was a bumper sticker I recently found throwing out old paperwork. Some of you veterans will recognize its sentiment.



















Do you folks know what a great deal this Sonance amp is? It's been my go-to amp for nearly twenty years. Now discontinued, the Sonance Sonamp 260 came in different versions but all were winners. It is ultra-stable. Designed for whole house speaker distribution, a standard set-up has it driving 3-5 pairs of speakers in parallel. One version of the amp was the Sonamp 260 x 3, which had a built in three speaker switcher that allowed you to have all three pairs on at once. The Sonamp 260's sound is very warm and easy to listen to. It lacks authority below 50Hz but I'll give up deep bass for musicality any day. I've recently purchased many Sonance Sonamp 260 amps on Ebay for between $50 and $100, depending on their condition and era, and been happy with every one. I'm using two of my Ebay finds around my house right now and have sold maybe half a dozen to friends who needed a good, cheap power amp.










*Bartender:* I wish you hadn't told me the reason why his name is really Hairy Mudd.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> Is the 500 the one you had the failed external HDD on? I'd like to hear from more people that are using externals with the 24-500s and see if the original difficulty has been resolved.
> 
> Rich


No, the HDD failure was on the HR20-700. Both of my HR24s have nearly identical external HD configurations: WD 1TB AV drives (one EURS and one EURX) in Vantec NexStar CX enclosures.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Rereading my last post, somewhere I should have mentioned the Sonance Sonamp 260 power amp is rated at 50 wpc but that's into 8 ohms. Since it is so stable, it's one of those amps that will put out a lot more juice as the load goes down. It pumps a good 80 wpc into a 4 ohm load and way over 100 watts hooked up to a 2 ohm load, and it will keep doing that all day long.

This weekend I saw a bar system I installed maybe 14 years ago. The half life of a bar system is measured in months, not years. This one, with Polk Audio speakers and three Sonamp 260s, is still going strong. As I write this, maybe one of the amps failed along the way. I remember some sort of problem years ago. Considering the use, the system's reliability has been tremendous.


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## trainman (Jan 9, 2008)

Carl Spock said:


> Also added to the distribution was a bumper sticker I recently found throwing out old paperwork. Some of you veterans will recognize its sentiment.


In 1995, my college dorm did a special fundraiser to buy a LaserDisc player for our screening room. We got one of the fancy ones that automatically switched sides of the disc.

Thanks for the photos of your setup -- I and my HR24-200, my one and only, are living vicariously through you.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Reminds me that mine is still in the rack! What to do!?


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