# Does anybody have a Seagate Free Agent Pro eSATA working with an HR21?



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

A simple question or two:

Does anybody have a Seagate Free Agent Pro 750 Gig eSATA working with an HR21?

Does anybody have a factory built eSATA (for instance a Cavalry eSATA) working with an HR21?

Please restrict your replies to only factory built eSATAs.

Thanx,
Rich


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## FredZ (Aug 22, 2007)

I've got an Apricorn DCR Xpander (1 TB) that is working well with my HR21.



rich584 said:


> A simple question or two:
> 
> Does anybody have a Seagate Free Agent Pro 750 Gig eSATA working with an HR21?
> 
> ...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

FredZ said:


> I've got an Apricorn DCR Xpander (1 TB) that is working well with my HR21.


And that is a factory built eSATA? OK, I found it on Amazon. Thanx.

Rich


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## LVKeith (Nov 13, 2007)

I have not seen any post indicating that FAP would work with the HR21. I did see a post in another thread that the Cavalry 1TB drive works with the HR21. I would also be interested to know if anyone has a Free Agent Pro working with the HR21 (without taking it apart). I can get the FAP at Costco but have been holding off, as it seems it won't work with the HR21.

Keith


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

LVKeith said:


> I have not seen any post indicating that FAP would work with the HR21.


I know one person who I have corresponded with extensively who has used both the 500 and 750s on an HR21. And he bought the jumper cable at Fry's, the place that sells the jumper cables that do not work well with the 20s.

I know another person who took the Seagate 750 Gig drive out of the FAP eSATA and replaced the internal HD with the 750.

I have pondered these facts and arrived at the conclusion that the reason the FAP doesn't work with the 21 must be the jumper cable between the DVR and the eSATA.

Give the two arguments above some thought and see if you arrive at the same conclusion. Can't be "firmware" on the HD if you can replace the internal drive with it and it works. Assuming (I know) that the HR21 does indeed support the eSATA function (I know D* does not support it) and other hand built units work, what else could it be if it is not the 21 or the 750 HD but the jumper cable?



> I did see a post in another thread that the Cavalry 1TB drive works with the HR21.


I purchased eight Cavalry 750s and returned them all. The last two were upgraded versions and one of them was still working properly, but I traded it in for an FAP. The seven Cavalrys clanged and banged and made so much noise that you could not stand to watch shows recorded on them. They all did record and play perfectly. But the noise, oy! The experience kind of turned me against Cavalry equipment.



> I would also be interested to know if anyone has a Free Agent Pro working with the HR21 (without taking it apart). I can get the FAP at Costco but have been holding off, as it seems it won't work with the HR21.


I have an HR21 scheduled to be delivered January 31. I also have a brand new FAP ready to hook up to it. I will post my experiences on this thread.

If it is the jumper cable and I can't use the same cable that the 20s use...hell, that's illogical.

Rich


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## marathonman89 (Sep 20, 2007)

FAP750 eSata does not work with HR21 (I know from personal experience).

I have been using an external eSata 1TB SimpleTech for about 1 month now with no problems.

Good luck.


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## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

I have a Cavalry 1TB single disk unit running on my computer via USB. It makes virtually NO noise. I ordered it for the new, yet to arrive, HR21 I plan to install. And I left it running for a couple of days to see about the heat build-up; it barely got above room temperature. The only thing I could hear was a faint whirr if I stuck my ear right next to the unit and a slight click when the computer was powered off. 
My only compaint is the damned bright-blue LED power indicator; I cured that by placing an old 5 1/4" floppy write-protect sticker over most of it (remember those? they had to be IR proof!) - now it just shows a couple of blue arrow shapes out the edge. And that flickers red when it's being accessed. . .

And best of all! Best Buy has these on sale NOW with free shipping for only $229!
*http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205986373&adid=17051&dcaid=17051*


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SubSlr08 said:


> I have a Cavalry 1TB single disk unit running on my computer via USB. It makes virtually NO noise.


Please let us know how you make out when you hook it up to the 21. And handle that thing gently. Perhaps they have improved, couldn't have gotten worse.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

marathonman89 said:


> FAP750 eSata does not work with HR21 (I know from personal experience).
> 
> I have been using an external eSata 1TB SimpleTech for about 1 month now with no problems.
> 
> Good luck.


Found it. Now if I can just find it at the proper place.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Well Plan B went down the tubes. I had planned to use my son's HR20 100 if I couldn't get the 21 to work with the FAP and give him the 21. The last two days his 100 crashed twice. Have to get it replaced if it keeps crashing. Have to formulate Plan C. Thirteen day to go and this happens. NUTZ!

Rich


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## BruceS (Sep 23, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Well Plan B went down the tubes. I had planned to use my son's HR20 100 if I couldn't get the 21 to work with the FAP and give him the 21. The last two days his 100 crashed twice. Have to get it replaced if it keeps crashing. Have to formulate Plan C. Thirteen day to go and this happens. NUTZ!
> 
> Rich


Maybe you should try letting him try the FAP first.

Quite often crashes are caused by hard disk problems.

Since both the HR20 and HR21 use only the external drive when one is connected, this would be a way to find out whether his problem is with his internal drive.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BruceS said:


> Maybe you should try letting him try the FAP first.
> 
> Quite often crashes are caused by hard disk problems.
> 
> Since both the HR20 and HR21 use only the external drive when one is connected, this would be a way to find out whether his problem is with his internal drive.


That is a possibility I factored in when I formulated Plan B. I know the 700s seem to run better on the eSATA hard drives (I know, I know it's probably my imagination). It is a good thought to keep in mind when I figure out what Plan C will be.

Thanx for reminding me, I was getting ready to go thru the replacement ordeal. I will now revert to Plan B in the bullpen. Hopefully A or B will work. I really hope the 21 works with the FAP eSATA. I saw a Cavalry 2Tb eSATA on their website yesterday. Kind of expensive. I think it was $599. That might well be Plan C. Don't need that much space, but I have to have some extra space. And if the FAP won't work, maybe that will. Looks an entirely different unit than the ones I had the noise problems with.

The hard disk problems you mentioned were an experience you had with TiVos, perhaps? Most of their problems are with their HDs, in my 5 year experience with TiVos. I don't recall (I don't recall yesterday) reading about HD problems in the infernal (I know, I have decided to call it that from now on) drives or the eSATAs other than the noise of some of the eSATAs. :icon_kiff

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SubSlr08 said:


> I have a Cavalry 1TB single disk unit running on my computer via USB. It makes virtually NO noise. I ordered it for the new, yet to arrive, HR21 I plan to install. And I left it running for a couple of days to see about the heat build-up; it barely got above room temperature. The only thing I could hear was a faint whirr if I stuck my ear right next to the unit and a slight click when the computer was powered off.


That looks nothing like the eight 750s I had. Just to stay in business, they had to improve them. I'm seriously thinking about buying the 2 Tb cavalry eSATA just "in case" I can't get the FAP working with the 21. Might just buy one today to have it in case I need it.

I wouldn't have considered another Cavalry until your post. Thanx.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BruceS said:


> Maybe you should try letting him try the FAP first.
> 
> Quite often crashes are caused by hard disk problems.
> 
> Since both the HR20 and HR21 use only the external drive when one is connected, this would be a way to find out whether his problem is with his internal drive.


Does your Series 3 TiVo reboot randomly?

Rich


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## GregAmy (Jan 7, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Does anybody have a Seagate Free Agent Pro 750 Gig eSATA working with an HR21?


Yes.

FAP750 purchased from Circuit City (model SGE 307504FPA1E2); using PNY eSATA cable purchased from BestBuy (SKU 8572127 )

**BUT**, getting random lockups. Is that x0193 software, or is that the FAP? Dunno. Already created our "Season Passes" on the new eSATA drive, so I'm loathe to swap back, but I may for a while. - GA


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

Had my HR21-700(s) installed today. x0193 software (until tonight anyway). Connected new FAP 750 with Tripp-Lite eSATA cable. Was ready to post my success when the box locked up. Pulled the FAP and rebooted (power off reset), now back in operation.

Read a post somewhere in these forums that at least one person had success pulling the drive from the FAP and putting it in another external enclosure. That'll be my next attempt.

Tony


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GregAmy said:


> Yes.
> 
> FAP750 purchased from Circuit City (model SGE 307504FPA1E2); using PNY eSATA cable purchased from BestBuy (SKU 8572127 )
> 
> **BUT**, getting random lockups. Is that x0193 software, or is that the FAP? Dunno. Already created our "Season Passes" on the new eSATA drive, so I'm loathe to swap back, but I may for a while. - GA


OHH, this is not raising my hopes. Some of the 21s (I seriously doubt there is anything wrong with the FAP) have to work with them. Mine will, I hope, I hope. :icon_kiff

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> Had my HR21-700(s) installed today. x0193 software (until tonight anyway). Connected new FAP 750 with Tripp-Lite eSATA cable. Was ready to post my success when the box locked up. Pulled the FAP and rebooted (power off reset), now back in operation.
> 
> Read a post somewhere in these forums that at least one person had success pulling the drive from the FAP and putting it in another external enclosure. That'll be my next attempt.
> 
> Tony


Is your eSATA jumper cable a "type 2"? Have you used that particular jumper cable on a 20?

I know the person you speak of. He said he had the eSATA working but then decided to replace the infernal drive with the HD from the FAP. He said it was working as it should. That makes me think that the cable is part of the problem, at least, if not the actual cause.

I've had eight 100s and none of them worked with an FAP, yet other posters have no problems. Can't have had the only eight 100s that refused to work with FAPs. That makes me think, again, it's the jumper.

Unfortunately the roughly 25 FAPs I've hooked up for people were all 700s so those eight are the only 100s I have any experience with. But still, what are the odds?

Rich


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## GregAmy (Jan 7, 2008)

For reference....

Got fed up with the lockups this AM (locked up again overnight). Despite having spent time last night adding in all the info for "Season Passes" (what in the h**l are they called on the these units??) I let it run all day today, since about 9:00 AM, with the FAP not connected, after the last restart.

Guess what? Zero lockups today. All day. Sigh....

I want more space, so I'm of the mindset of swapping out the FAP drive into the internal chassis. Dat-burn safety torx screws!!! Haven't quite resolved what I want to do yet... - GA


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

The eSATA cable doesn't say "type 2" anywhere on it. But, on the plus side, it's made in China (or Hecho en China).  It's Tripp-Lite model P950-36I (Amazon threw it in with the FAP). I don't have any HR20's to try this against.

I've already ordered another enclosure and ripped the FAP apart to get the drive out (the FAP cost about what a 750 GB bare SATA drive costs, so I don't feel too bad about it). In taking this apart, there is definitely more than just a cable from the drive's output to the eSATA external connector. There's an intermediate circuit board with some logic elements on it. I'm theorizing that this circuitry is the source of our heartaches. Too bad, it's a pretty enclosure, and it's pretty tough to take apart without damage. I read the blog on how to take it apart, and I think he's got the right instructions, I just wasn't successful with those instructions and had to use a little brute force. That method was quite effective.

I ordered the "Antec MX-1 USB/e-SATA 3.5-Inch Hard Drive Enclosure" to install the Seagate drive into. I'll post my results with that enclosure. Seems a little early to take the HR21 apart to replace the hard drive (I've had it for 8 or 9 hours so far).

It'll be about a week before the new enclosure arrives.

The FAP seemed to work perfectly initially, but when the test recording I set kicked in, the box froze solid.

Tony


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## GregAmy (Jan 7, 2008)

I bailed this AM. Decided to bite the bullet on the warranty coverage (risk=$200, no more than what I paid for the drive itself) and put the FAP SATA drive into the internal bay.

Removed the drive from the FAP (what a PITA!), installed it in the internal, and all is running fine. Bonus: all the "Prioritizer" stuff and a couple of shows that I had recorded prior to disconnecting the external hard drive were all still there and usable. The "old" internal drive is going back into the FAP case for PC use.

So, put me down as a "NO" for making the FAP work on an HR21-700 as described above. - GA


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

GregAmy said:


> For reference....
> 
> Got fed up with the lockups this AM (locked up again overnight). Despite having spent time last night adding in all the info for "Season Passes" (what in the h**l are they called on the these units??) I let it run all day today, since about 9:00 AM, with the FAP not connected, after the last restart.
> 
> ...


Oh boy, I can just see a nightmare occurring when I get my 21. Just out of curiosity, have you tried a Cavalry eSATA?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> In taking this apart, there is definitely more than just a cable from the drive's output to the eSATA external connector. There's an intermediate circuit board with some logic elements on it. I'm theorizing that this circuitry is the source of our heartaches.


But, the FAPs will work with the 20s and that tells me that the problem is either in the 21 or the jumper cable. You might well be correct in your conclusion that that circuit board is incompatible with the 21.

My plan is to let the HR21 run and record for at least 24 hours on the infernal HD and then hook up the Seagate eSATA to it. I have no idea why, but this has worked with all the eSATAs I have hooked up.

Perhaps the DVR needs to get comfortable with the surroundings and perform it's tasks on the infernal drive for a period of time. I don't know, but I do know that hooking up an eSATA immediately after activating the DVR seems to cause problems.

This may seem strange, but we are dealing with an electrical device and there is no "science of electricity". I worked on a large, expensive chilling unit for a week and it just would not run. When I told my boss, he kicked me out of his office and told me to "get the damned thing running". I went back, cleaned the chiller off, wiped down all the controls and gave it a great big hug and begged it to work. Pushed the power button and it worked! Why? I have no idea. Scary , when you think about it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> I read the blog on how to take it apart, and I think he's got the right instructions, I just wasn't successful with those instructions and had to use a little brute force. That method was quite effective.


Could you post the link to that blog, please?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I just ordered a Cavalry 750 eSATA just in case.

Rich


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## SAFOOL (Aug 24, 2007)

So I guess I'm screwed when they replace my hr20. What are the odds that I'll get a 20 and not the 21 since I already have a fap.:nono2:


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

SAFOOL said:


> So I guess I'm screwed when they replace my hr20. What are the odds that I'll get a 20 and not the 21 since I already have a fap.:nono2:


Slim. But one never knows.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SAFOOL said:


> So I guess I'm screwed when they replace my hr20. What are the odds that I'll get a 20 and not the 21 since I already have a fap.:nono2:


Refuse the 21 on the grounds of OTA issues. You want OTA, the 21 doesn't have it. They should send you a 20. They should. Welcome to D*Hell.

Rich


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Could you post the link to that blog, please?
> 
> Rich


Here's you go:
http://blog.thydzik.com/how-to-disassemble-a-seagate-freeagent-pro/
Sorry for the delay in response - the e-mail notification from this thread missed that post somehow.

Antec MX-1 enclosure was sitting on my doorstep when I walked in from work tonight. I'll be putting the Seagate drive from the FAP into it and letting it run for a day or so before I report success or failure.

- Tony


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

An hour and a half and a test recording later, the Antec MX-1 with the hard drive from the FAP 750 is working well. It's very quiet. The Antec is a nice enclosure - it's got a very quiet fan (the FAP didn't have a fan). Plus, it came with all the cables including the eSata. Power supply seems more robust than the FAP's too - the transformer is in the middle of the cord rather than the plug and there are 4 wires between the transformer and the drive.

'twas about $58 from Amazon with free shipping.

If things go horribly awry I'll update this thread.

- Tony


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## willardcpa (Jun 5, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> 'twas about $58 from Amazon with free shipping.
> - Tony


Tony, did you know that Amazon also had a $30 rebate going now on the MX-1s?


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

The rebate is only valid until 01/27/08. Better get it soon. I got my second Antec MX-1 from Amazon last week.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/re...DKIKX0DER&s=electronics&qid=1200638345&sr=8-1


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

willardcpa said:


> Tony, did you know that Amazon also had a $30 rebate going now on the MX-1s?


Guys, thanks for the rebate info and link! I saw something about it during the order, but then it appeared that it was really an inducement to get an Amazon Visa card.

BTW, 12 hours and no lockup...

- Tony


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

All 3.0Gb/s SATA (aka SATA II and SATA-300) drive in an Antec MX-1 will work on an HR21 and HR20.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> Here's you go:
> http://blog.thydzik.com/how-to-disassemble-a-seagate-freeagent-pro/
> Sorry for the delay in response - the e-mail notification from this thread missed that post somehow.
> 
> ...


Thanx for the link. Oh, my God! What a way to wreck an eSATA.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> Here's you go:
> http://blog.thydzik.com/how-to-disassemble-a-seagate-freeagent-pro/
> Sorry for the delay in response - the e-mail notification from this thread missed that post somehow.
> 
> ...


By the way, the Cavalry eSATAs are a lot easier to do the same thing with. The ones I had apart, are easy to dismantle.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> Guys, thanks for the rebate info and link! I saw something about it during the order, but then it appeared that it was really an inducement to get an Amazon Visa card.


Ever wonder how many people fall for that $30 rebate if you get an Amazon credit card? Remember, every credit card you add affects your credit rating.

Rich


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

tonyd0308 said:


> Guys, thanks for the rebate info and link! I saw something about it during the order, but then it appeared that it was really an inducement to get an Amazon Visa card.
> 
> BTW, 12 hours and no lockup...
> 
> - Tony


You're not required to apply for an Amazon Visa card to get the rebate.

See rebate requirements below.
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/00/00/01/15/86/84/115868410._V16250794_.pdf


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

techm8n said:


> All 3.0Gb/s SATA (aka SATA II and SATA-300) drive in an Antec MX-1 will work on an HR21 and HR20.


Now who's off topic? I was quite specific in my OP, to wit:

A simple question or two:

Does anybody have a Seagate Free Agent Pro 750 Gig eSATA working with an HR21?

Does anybody have a factory built eSATA (for instance a Cavalry eSATA) working with an HR21?

Please restrict your replies to only factory built eSATAs.



I stopped arguing with you about your comments on the post you started because I didn't want to waste space or time arguing a vague semantic point. There is a large eSATA thread that addresses the Antec enclosures and the drives that can be put into it.

I started this thread because that thread had degenerated into a "build your own enclosure" instead of an eSATA thread. I have very specific reasons for wanting to use factory built eSATAs and I started this thread to address, specifically, factory built eSATAs.

So, ya got any idea why the FAP doesn't work with the 21?


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## jamiethomas (Dec 23, 2007)

Yes it will work


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Now who's off topic? I was quite specific in my OP, to wit:
> 
> A simple question or two:
> 
> ...


You hijacked my other post and went on a tangent, so I wanted to return the favor.  
I'll stop there.

But to answer your question, the FAP doesn't work with the HR21 because of its SATA controller. The FAP's SATA controller is more complex compared to let's say the Antec MX-1. The FAP has options like automatic data move and duplication. Included with the FAP is software that communicates to the SATA controller. It probably also have power management.

Now the Antec MX-1 doesn't have all that option. It's either on or off. Which is probably why the HR21 can easily communicate with the Antec MX-1 vs FAP.

Since the HR20 is compatible with the FAP, its eSATA port probably communicates differently compared to the HR21.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

jamiethomas said:


> Yes it will work


Care to expand on that??


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Does anybody have a Seagate Free Agent Pro 750 Gig eSATA working with an HR21?
> 
> Does anybody have a factory built eSATA (for instance a Cavalry eSATA) working with an HR21?


Sorry to participate in the thread hijack. Motives were good (I thought I had the FAP working), but the result was another Antec MX-1 thread rather than your original purpose of a external hard drive that just plugged in and worked.

I did (or at least will) get $30 back for my trouble.

Antec is still going strong, though... 

- Tony


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

***Confirmed HR21 compatible factory built eSATA drives.

TenBox by Tenlab
Cavalry 750GB & 1TB
SimpleTech Duo Pro 1TB (Raid 0)
Apricorn DVR Xpander (1TB)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> Sorry to participate in the thread hijack. Motives were good (I thought I had the FAP working), but the result was another Antec MX-1 thread rather than your original purpose of a external hard drive that just plugged in and worked.
> 
> I did (or at least will) get $30 back for my trouble.
> 
> ...


No problems, Tony. techm8n and I had a dispute the other day about going off topic on a post that he had started and I couldn't help but point out the hypocrisy of doing the same thing to a post I started. I have no problem with people going off topic.

Half the time, I don't even pay attention to the topic, just see something that interests me and jump in. The whole Antec thing has been beaten to death on the longer eSATA thread. I know they work, but I want to find people who actually have out of box eSATAs working with a 21.

Your link to the destruction of the FAP was informative and I appreciated it. If I had a problem with your posts I would have said something. Bashful I'm not.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

techm8n said:


> ***Confirmed HR21 compatible factory built eSATA drives.
> 
> TenBox by Tenlab
> Cavalry 750GB & 1TB
> ...


The TenBox I knew about. Too expensive. The SimpleTech I knew about. Not sold by the retailer I deal with. The Apricorn I knew about, same problem. The Cavalry 1TB I knew about and just got the Cavalry 750 today from the proper source, so if the FAP won't work, I will try the Cavalry. I've had eight Cavalrys and have traded them all in for FAPs because of noise issues. But, I'll try this and if it doesn't work, I might take the HD out and replace the infernal drive with it. Or purchase the 2TB Cavalry. I've taken several Cavalrys apart and you don't have to ruin the eSATA to extract the HD. But, thanx for the info. I wasn't sure about the Cavalry 750, and still am not since the one I got today is not the newest model. Will know for sure Feb 1.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jamiethomas said:


> Yes it will work


PLEASE! Tell us more. How long have you had it working? What jumper cable are you using? Any problems or tips?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

techm8n said:


> But to answer your question, the FAP doesn't work with the HR21 because of its SATA controller. The FAP's SATA controller is more complex compared to let's say the Antec MX-1. The FAP has options like automatic data move and duplication. Included with the FAP is software that communicates to the SATA controller. It probably also have power management.


Still don't understand why the FAP won't work with the 21 and what can be done to correct the problem. Seems logical that if the 20 works with it, the 21 should. I gotta try it myself.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Care to expand on that??


What was that? He just says "yes" and bails? Had my hopes up.

Rich


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

rich584 said:


> What was that? He just says "yes" and bails? Had my hopes up.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, no idea. I am also "in the market" for a eSATA for an HR21. I also have a FAP750 on my HR20 that has been working very well for the last 9 months or so. It is, at least, good to know that I can rip it apart and use an enclosure if the HR20 ever dies and gets replaced by an HR21.

It is baffling to me why the FAP doesn't work with the 21. At this point, I can only assume it is a hardware compatibility issue.


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

cygnusloop said:


> Yeah, no idea. I am also "in the market" for a eSATA for an HR21. I also have a FAP750 on my HR20 that has been working very well for the last 9 months or so. It is, at least, good to know that I can rip it apart and use an enclosure if the HR20 ever dies and gets replaced by an HR21.
> 
> It is baffling to me why the FAP doesn't work with the 21. At this point, I can only assume it is a hardware compatibility issue.


In today's Best Buy ad, they had a Western Digital 750 GB with eSata for $219 (or something close to that).

We've had no confirmation that this will work with the HR21, though.

FAP 750 guts in an Antec MX-1 enclosure still going strong.

- Tony


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Yeah, no idea. I am also "in the market" for a eSATA for an HR21. I also have a FAP750 on my HR20 that has been working very well for the last 9 months or so. It is, at least, good to know that I can rip it apart and use an enclosure if the HR20 ever dies and gets replaced by an HR21.
> 
> It is baffling to me why the FAP doesn't work with the 21. At this point, I can only assume it is a hardware compatibility issue.


Wait until I try the FAP and the Cavalry on the 21. Hopefully I can get one of them working. Baffles me too. The FAP is, by far, the best eSATA I have used. Maybe I'll get a 200 and that will work with the FAP. With my luck, I'll get the Cavalry working. I don't have a whole lot of faith in them.

I get the 21 Thursday morning. Will allow it to settle in and record a bunch of shows overnight. If everything works OK, I'll hook up the eSATAs. Should have an answer Sunday, latest.

Rich


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## techm8n (Jan 3, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Wait until I try the FAP and the Cavalry on the 21. Hopefully I can get one of them working. Baffles me too. The FAP is, by far, the best eSATA I have used. Maybe I'll get a 200 and that will work with the FAP. With my luck, I'll get the Cavalry working. I don't have a whole lot of faith in them.
> 
> I get the 21 Thursday morning. Will allow it to settle in and record a bunch of shows overnight. If everything works OK, I'll hook up the eSATAs. Should have an answer Sunday, latest.
> 
> Rich


Have you tried different eSATA cables on your FAP and HR21? Like the SIIG eSATA cable that people here like to use.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Wait until I try the FAP and the Cavalry on the 21. Hopefully I can get one of them working. Baffles me too. The FAP is, by far, the best eSATA I have used. Maybe I'll get a 200 and that will work with the FAP. With my luck, I'll get the Cavalry working. I don't have a whole lot of faith in them.
> 
> I get the 21 Thursday morning. Will allow it to settle in and record a bunch of shows overnight. If everything works OK, I'll hook up the eSATAs. Should have an answer Sunday, latest.
> 
> Rich


Thanks, Rich. I anxiously await your results (not really in a huge hurry).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

techm8n said:


> Have you tried different eSATA cables on your FAP and HR21? Like the SIIG eSATA cable that people here like to use.


I've never had a cable problem and I've hooked up 15-20 eSATAs of my own and several for other people. I always recommend the SIIG Type 2 to people and no one has ever posted a complaint.

I don't get the 21 until tomorrow and will try it out without eSATA for a couple of days to make sure it works as it should and to give it a chance to acclimate itself to it's new home. I hope to hook up the FAP Saturday using the same jumper cable I always use. Plan B is now the Cavalry 750 eSATA if the FAP won't work with the 21. Plan C is the almost $700 2TB Cavalry. Haven't bought it yet. Am optimistic Plan A or Plan B will work.

I have noticed that on the photos the guys posted on the 21-200 that the port says "SATA" and am wondering if the eSATA to SATA cord is required. That might be Plan B1.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Thanks, Rich. I anxiously await your results (not really in a huge hurry).


I hope one of them works. I'll send you a PM before I post anything, if I can remember.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan A comments:

I've run the wiring, mounted the multiswitch, all the installer has to do is a couple of short tasks and I should be up and running by tomorrow afternoon.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan A continues. Got a 21-700 today. Brand new. Hooked it up and activated it easily. I got the remote into RF mode easily. Just gonna let it record multiple programs and make sure it works correctly. 

Gotta admit it's hard not to stick the eSATA in.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan A has developed a hitch. Seems the computer monitor I am using has an 8000:1 contrast ratio in VGB but only a 1000:1 contrast ration in DVI. Resulting in a crappy picture, but good enough to play with. Now I have to purchase a new TV if I want to keep the HR21 in my hidey hole. And I do want to keep it here.

All the programs I set to record yesterday did so properly. So far, no problems. Now if I can just contain myself until tomorrow morning and not connect the eSATA...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The 21 works well in SD for all you folks who were curious. The only inconvenience I can find is that you can't filter out the HD programs in the guide as you can filter out the SD channels. Makes for a crowded guide.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan A continues: Decided to hook up the Free Agent Pro. Gotta try it. Everything good so far as 21 boots up. Took a little longer for the FAP to light up and for the 21 to come on after plugging it in, but it is rebooting now and I'm waiting for an empty "list".

I did notice that the jumper cable did not go as far into the "SATA" port on the 21 as I expected it too. Oops, it's on. Wait...Yes! Empty play list. Now to populate the list, I will let it record several programs.

More later, 

Rich


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

Mine worked fine until the first recording went off. Then, lockup.

Tony


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

First show recorded perfectly. Next two shows came up in the List, but were blank when I tried to play them. Nutz. Plan A is a failure. My apologies to all the people that I doubted. This is where being a pessimist helps.

On to Plan B. Will now disconnect the FAP and install the Cavalry.

More later...

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> First show recorded perfectly. Next two shows came up in the List, but were blank when I tried to play them. Nutz. Plan A is a failure. My apologies to all the people that I doubted. This is where being a pessimist helps.
> 
> On to Plan B. Will now disconnect the FAP and install the Cavalry.
> 
> ...


Based on numerous reports...it appears that there is something in the FAP unit that just causes buffer or other data migration problems. A regular Seagate drive works just fine.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> Mine worked fine until the first recording went off. Then, lockup.
> 
> Tony


Hey Tony,

First, let me thank you for using your name. A common courtesy that is ignored on forums for the most part.

The FAP didn't lockup. Just didn't record anything. Been meaning to ask you a question. After pulling the HD out of the FAP, could you have done it without destroying the FAP? I know I can get the Cavalry HD out without damaging the case. Just thought you might have some thoughts in retrospect.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Based on numerous reports...it appears that there is something in the FAP unit that just causes buffer or other data migration problems. A regular Seagate drive works just fine.


I believe it now. That's the first FAP that didn't work for me. Trying Plan B. Back later...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Cavalry came without a base. Don't know for sure whether it's supposed to stand up or lay flat. Still coming up...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan B: 21 now on the Cavalry eSATA drive. Playlist empty. Have to record several shows. Back later...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan B comments: Calvary working, not making much noise yet. Slightly different from the original Cavalrys I used early last year. 

Back later...

Rich


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> First, let me thank you for using your name. A common courtesy that is ignored on forums for the most part.
> 
> ...


I suppose with the name and city you could figure out where I live, but I'm not THAT worried. Seems appropriate to be able to refer to each other by name, don't you think? By the way, the avatar isn't my picture, it's Scotty from Star Trek. I always identified with him.

Anyway...

I THINK it's possible to open it without destroying the case, but challenging. The blog (that I referenced earlier in this thread, I think) has some pictures, but not enough detail.

First off, the rubber feet come off the bottom exposing screws. Also, when you get the bottom of the base off, you need to take the cover off of the circuit board there to expose more screws.

There's some aluminum tape that you'll probably need to cut to get the base off of the hard drive portion.

The trick with the hard drive part itself is that there are 4 prongs / snaps that stick out from the "front" into the "back". The blog shows him inserting a clothes hanger into a vent hole. You want it in the middle bottom hole, and push in as far as you can. If you're lucky, it will go under the plastic in the base and push on the clip that locks in from the front. I didn't fully get that from the pictures, and consequently wasn't successful before I resorted to brute force. The thing is symmetrical, so you chose this same hole all the way around - there are 4 clips, one at each corner.

To get the metal case off of the hard drive once you get it out of the case, when you take the rubber thingies (technical term) off of the side you'll expose more screws. Take those out and the two halves of the metal enclosure comes off.

I found the FAP to be well-made, just doesn't work with the HR21. Since my sole purpose in buying it (before discovering all of the threads on how it didn't work with the HR21) was to hook it up to the HR21, I didn't feel bad about killing the case to get the drive out.

I already pitched the case, or I'd put a page on my website with many more pics on how it goes together.

Good luck! If I missed a detail, feel free to post here or PM me.

- Tony


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Cavalry came without a base. Don't know for sure whether it's supposed to stand up or lay flat. Still coming up...
> 
> Rich


If the Cavalry came with a built in fan, or if you can fee airflow through its vents, as long as you don't cover a vent it doesn't matter if it lays down or stands on its side. If there are no fans and you can't feel any air flow through the vent holes (like the FAP), you want some vents lower than the other vents to allow convection to pull air through the enclosure.

Tony


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> If the Cavalry came with a built in fan, or if you can fee airflow through its vents, as long as you don't cover a vent it doesn't matter if it lays down or stands on its side. If there are no fans and you can't feel any air flow through the vent holes (like the FAP), you want some vents lower than the other vents to allow convection to pull air through the enclosure.
> 
> Tony


One of the most annoying things about the Cavalrys I had early last year was the fan noise. Tiny fans moving at high speed to compensate for the lack of blade size. This model does not appear to have a fan and there are no vents that I can find. I'll leave it upright and see what happens. All the ones I had last year were upright models and I'm assuming this is too.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

What worked for me is a common internal Seagate drive that I got at Fry's for $119 (500GB) and then a $34 enclosure. No muss, no fuss. 

Worked on my HR20-700...then tried with my HR21-700 - worked there too. Since then, I decided to use that drive as internal storage in my newest HR21....and it has performed flawlessly (and very quiet as well).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> I suppose with the name and city you could figure out where I live, but I'm not THAT worried. Seems appropriate to be able to refer to each other by name, don't you think?


Seems downright hospitable. I don't like not having any idea who I'm talking to.



> By the way, the avatar isn't my picture, it's Scotty from Star Trek. I always identified with him.


AW, and here I thought... Didn't he just pass away? Talk about somebody going from obscurity to one of the most recognized people on Earth!

What I was trying to get at was could you have put it back together without any visible signs of tampering?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> It is baffling to me why the FAP doesn't work with the 21. At this point, I can only assume it is a hardware compatibility issue.


I'm gonna call Seagate and ask them if they have any thoughts. Have to spend at least an hour listening to music to reach their tech support, but they seem to know what they are talking about. Wonder if they are even aware of the issue? WD knew right away why the E Book eSATA wouldn't work, maybe...

What really bothers me is that Seagate is getting ready to release a 1TB version of the FAP.

Rich


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## tonyd0308 (Jan 13, 2008)

rich584 said:


> AW, and here I thought... Didn't he just pass away? Talk about somebody going from obscurity to one of the most recognized people on Earth.


Yes, James Doohan who played "Montgomery Scott" ( or Scotty ) did pass away recently.



rich584 said:


> What I was trying to get at was could you have put it back together without any visible signs of tampering?
> 
> Rich


I believe that it IS possible to take one apart and put it back together without it being apparent. The main part that's hard is getting the main case apart because it snaps together. If you can get the clips to release, you should be golden. You'll have to be a bit more patient than I was.

- Tony


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tonyd0308 said:


> Yes, James Doohan who played "Montgomery Scott" ( or Scotty ) did pass away recently.
> 
> I believe that it IS possible to take one apart and put it back together without it being apparent. The main part that's hard is getting the main case apart because it snaps together. If you can get the clips to release, you should be golden. You'll have to be a bit more patient than I was.
> 
> - Tony


Don't think it will be necessary, as the Cavalry seems to be functioning perfectly.

Thanx,

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan B progressing nicely. Have discovered that manipulating the "format" button on the remote for the 21 gives me a much better picture on the Sony 24" SD TV in my hidey hole. Might not have to get a new TV. Of course if the Giants win today, I will be able to afford a new TV without my wife knowing about it. Let us pray.

I'm really liking this 21. Seems like a definite upgrade from the 20s. And this new model Cavalry is quite quiet. Gotta buy a couple more.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Called Cavalry and the tech I talked to said if it was his eSATA, he would lay it flat. He said it should be fine both ways, but laying flat is a whole lot safer. 

Rich


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

I have an HR21 and so wanted to buy that cheap WD or FAP from Costco, but after reading all the posts I have purchased an Antec MX-1 enclosure and have a 1TB WD on order. After having 100 hours on the SD DVR going back to 50 just hasn't been enough.

Thanks to all of you who have gone through all the painfull testing for the rest of us. 

Anyone know about how many hours you get on a 1TB drive? I am guessing around 150 hours of HD.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MountainMan10 said:


> I have an HR21 and so wanted to buy that cheap WD or FAP from Costco, but after reading all the posts I have purchased an Antec MX-1 enclosure and have a 1TB WD on order. After having 100 hours on the SD DVR going back to 50 just hasn't been enough.
> 
> Thanks to all of you who have gone through all the painfull testing for the rest of us.
> 
> Anyone know about how many hours you get on a 1TB drive? I am guessing around 150 hours of HD.


I've tried and tried to get a feel for how much you can put on a SATA HD and I have come to the conclusion that it depends on the content.

If my rememory swerves, I had about 40-50 hours of MPEG2 recordings on the infernal drive. D* advertises 20 hours (is that right?). Now everything is pretty much in MPEG4, somebody should be able to come up with a WAG, but I don't think we'll ever get anything but an approximation.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Plan B comments: The 21 hasn't rebooted today. Seems happier. Couldn't put up with the 32" Samsung LCD and purchased a 42" Phillips (I shall name him Phil) plasma. 

That Sammy had a great picture as long as nothing was moving quickly. Watched a car race this morning and as long as the cars were standing still or in a showroom, the picture was perfect. As soon as the cars started racing, they became blurry. My negative experiences with Samsung continue. Phil has a really good picture, much like my Pannys. 

The Cavalry if functioning flawlessly and is almost as silent as an FAP. I'm amazed.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, the Cavalry eSATA survived the first NR. The Cavalry is quiet and seems quite content, as am I.

Phil, the plasma TV, however did not work out. Took it back yesterday and bought another Panny. What a difference! And the Panny cost $150 less.

I am now quite satisfied and no matter what VOS says, "normal".

Rich :icon_kiff


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

I got my Antec MX-1 with the 1TB WD installed. It has been up and running for 3 days now without any issue. It is extremenly quite. Cannot hear it even if I put my ear right up to it. Runs very cool with the fan. As others have posted the temperature reading from the DVR no longer works. Always says 77 deg.

I have about 30 hours recorded, almost all HD. Shows 90% free. 

If you have a 21 the Antec is a great way to go!


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## usualsuspect (Aug 19, 2007)

MountainMan10 said:


> I got my Antec MX-1 with the 1TB WD installed. It has been up and running for 3 days now without any issue. It is extremenly quite. Cannot hear it even if I put my ear right up to it. Runs very cool with the fan. As others have posted the temperature reading from the DVR no longer works. Always says 77 deg.
> 
> I have about 30 hours recorded, almost all HD. Shows 90% free.
> 
> If you have a 21 the Antec is a great way to go!


I agree, I have been running solid since my install last Friday (Antec MX-1 with 750 WD). Loving the HR21..:biggthump


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I've tried and tried to get a feel for how much you can put on a SATA HD and I have come to the conclusion that it depends on the content.
> 
> If my rememory swerves, I had about 40-50 hours of MPEG2 recordings on the infernal drive. D* advertises 20 hours (is that right?). Now everything is pretty much in MPEG4, somebody should be able to come up with a WAG, but I don't think we'll ever get anything but an approximation.
> 
> Rich


As you say, a lot depends on content. One big factor is if the source material is a 24fps film which takes up about 20% less space compared to non-film based video.

I've found that 3.5GB per hour is a good rough estimate, so if you subtract the estimated 100GB of reserved space on the disk, that would give you about 185 hours on a 750GB disk and about 257 hours on a 1TB disk.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> As you say, a lot depends on content. One big factor is if the source material is a 24fps film which takes up about 20% less space compared to non-film based video.
> 
> I've found that 3.5GB per hour is a good rough estimate, so if you subtract the estimated 100GB of reserved space on the disk, that would give you about 185 hours on a 750GB disk and about 257 hours on a 1TB disk.


That's about what I would have guessed too. The problem I have is that the one 20 I have that gets close to full always has MPEG2 movies on it making it impossible to total up.

Rich


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

rich584 said:


> That's about what I would have guessed too. The problem I have is that the one 20 I have that gets close to full always has MPEG2 movies on it making it impossible to total up.
> 
> Rich


And although I didn't say so in my previous post, those numbers were assuming MPEG4 recordings.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> And although I didn't say so in my previous post, those numbers were assuming MPEG4 recordings.


I assumed that. I still think that if you filled up one 750 with MPEG4 recordings and another with MPEG4 recordings and totaled up the hours they would differ mildly. I don't think there is a definitive answer. But your guesstimate is probably close enough for anyone wishing to purchase an eSATA to use as a yardstick. Good info.

Rich


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