# Anti-Satellite Commercials



## rtt2 (Jan 27, 2003)

I was wondering if anyone has a webpage of anti-satellite commercials that cable companies advertise. If not it would be pretty interesting if we could submit clips and get a collection going from people around the country.
There have been some outlandish claims made in some commercials. It would be entertaining and we could use it to educate cable customers debating DBS. We could dispel the uncertainty that these commercials raise in cable customers minds'. It would be great to get another point of view across and be able to react to this propaganda.
My former cable company was making some hysterical claims in its commercial's. One even claimed that birds might affect your DBS signal. I can't imagine what else might be out there.


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## waydwolf (Feb 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rtt2 _
> *I was wondering if anyone has a webpage of anti-satellite commercials that cable companies advertise. If not it would be pretty interesting if we could submit clips and get a collection going from people around the country.
> There have been some outlandish claims made in some commercials. It would be entertaining and we could use it to educate cable customers debating DBS. We could dispel the uncertainty that these commercials raise in cable customers minds'. It would be great to get another point of view across and be able to react to this propaganda.
> My former cable company was making some hysterical claims in its commercial's. One even claimed that birds might affect your DBS signal. I can't imagine what else might be out there. *


 The one Cox has is pretty damn accurate. Every single DBS installation company I've ever worked for has had a boiler room operation feel to it and run by people who fairly exuded the essence of carny huckster.

The industry's installation section is dominated by untrained, unprofessional, and often childish people who are pressed to upsell unnecessary custom installations and accessories as a way to make a decent paycheck rather than being paid a wage commensurate with statistical cancellations for lack of line of sight, customer change of mind, etc. Almost every single DBS installation manager I've ever subcontracted to was of the opinion that the MAJORITY of an installer's income should be specifically from upsales and not the actual job assignments.

Their pathological obsession with doing everything on the cheap is an affront to any installer with any sort of dignity and morality and you either lose those and become a huckster yourself or you leave the industry or do as I, pick and choose your assignments and do cable and telecom as well to make your full pay. I strictly avoid ALL upsales as I am an installer, NOT a salesman.

This situation leads to the majority of installers being willing to emplace dishes during the winter which come spring will lose line of sight because they are looking in November through leafless tree branches, which then requires a senior installer to fix it if they can come spring.

I've had people sold tripod mounts with twelve foot masts on the peak of their roof when they had clear line of sight from ground, never mind the roof. I've had not one but two distribution multiswitches sold to people with two bedrooms and one living room who had no intention of going beyond two receivers. I've had people sold post and concrete mounts with one hundred eighty foot trenches using RG-11 for a total cost of $300 when they had line of sight from the base of the roof just above the second floor.

I've listened to DBS installers verbally slam cable with lies like, "you'll never see high definition on cable", "cable has much less bandwidth than satellite", "satellite never has any weather problems", and "digital cable never works and is losing money".

Less than a quarter of the installations done by others which I check out are actually grounded, and QC proceedures are almost totally nonexistant in the industry thanks to multi-level subcontracting where often times no one in the chain but the actual installer actually lives in the same state as the install being performed. This scheme also leads to multiple people skimming some of the installation payment set out by DTV and E* and leaving the installer with a pittance on top of leaving him to purchase his own insurance, cable, supplies, vehicle, gas, etc. Cable comapnies DON'T work that way.

I wish the industry wasn't so filled with slime, but it is and until an honest self-assessment and house-cleaning is done, nothing will get better.


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## catman (Jun 27, 2002)

Cable charges $56 for the same programming we get on directv . The $39.95 is for 2 months only then , it goes back to $56 . TWC is not too smart . I am not a installer . I have had my directv since 2000 Would NEVER give it up .


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I slam cable with a simple "their installer couldn't follow a black wire through a line splitter" statement - which was true.

When my adoptive mother owned this house, I split the line to feed two cable boxes so she could tape one channel and watch another. The installers couldn't figure this out when there was a problem. they said it was too complicated. I told them that they could identify the problem (yes, *I* told them, they asked my mother to call me!) by simply disconnecting the cable where it came into the house and testing it there. If it was ok there, then the problem was with the cable boxes.

They didn't understand that basic principle. When I moved into the house after her death, I had a dish put up.


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2003)

There's a funny commerical in St. Louis going on. It takes place at Ozzie Smith's house (mansion), and you can see the little dish on the roof. In the backyard, is a pitcher with a "dish" jersey, and Ozzie Smith, with a "charter communications" jersey, batting. The big, ugly, "dish" pitcher throws a pitch to Ozzie, and Ozzie blasts the ball, and it slams right into the little dish on the roof, knocking it off the house. Then, Ozzie starts dancing around, and the caption below, says, "Ozzie is now a Charter Communications Customer!"


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Freddy _
> *There's a funny commerical in St. Louis going on. It takes place at Ozzie Smith's house (mansion), and you can see the little dish on the roof. In the backyard, is a pitcher with a "dish" jersey, and Ozzie Smith, with a "charter communications" jersey, batting. The big, ugly, "dish" pitcher throws a pitch to Ozzie, and Ozzie blasts the ball, and it slams right into the little dish on the roof, knocking it off the house. Then, Ozzie starts dancing around, and the caption below, says, "Ozzie is now a Charter Communications Customer!" *


How lame Why dont cable Systems let people go with who they will think save them the most money

Comcast Digital cable sux they have 20 extra channels you dont have on regular cable Big Deal

I will take directv thank u :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## JulienPDX (Feb 2, 2004)

I agree with daywolf on the lack of professionalism I've seen in the past with DISH network subcontracted installers. 

The guys who recently came to my new house to install directv were very professional and did an excellent job, they even grounded the system properly and made sure nothing looked sloppy. 

But I do agree with most of the points he's made as far as how crappy it seems they treat their installers. (Why don't they have their own f***ing installers?)

As far as the commercials go, I really laugh at the ones that show the old people scraping the snow off their dish antenna or the dog that has bitten into it and gotten stuck (LIKE THIS WOULD EVER HAPPEN!?!?) ...and I laugh even harder at the anti-cable commercials that show people throwing their ancient 70's General Instrument or Gemstar boxes out their windows. 

There are pros and cons to each service that I've found:

ANTI-CABLE:

1) the fact that digital cable took so long to implement and that since you can't buy your own equipment, you are forced to use boxes that move like molasses and pay extra fees for boxes with dolby digital or s-video

2) there is no competition in cable, you usually can't choose your own provider thanks to AT&T buying everyone out and then merging with Comcast.

3) if the cable goes out..you never know why and you never know how soon it will be fixed

4) HIGHER RATES and taxes that are unjustifiable, channels that you dont want. (the biggest reason, in my opinion)


ANTI-SATELLITE

1) DISH network and DirecTV having recently switched to checking everyone's credit upon sign-up thereby locking some customers OUT of certain deals that are advertised or forcing them to make pre-payments. I don't know of any cable company that does that.

2) DirecTV and DISH Network's dumb policy of treating every individual as a "new customer" only ONCE in their lifetime. (ie there are no "come back to us" specials or "switching" specials)

3) The fact that there are only 2 DBS providers when there used to be 5 
Primestar, USSB, DirecTV, Echostar, and USN

4) Snow, Rain Fade and no free technician visits if there is a problem.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

The current Cox commercial running in Omaha is an answer to the "cable pig" commercials (gee, those aren't deceptive are they, including people upgrading to digital cable and other programming and calling it "cable increases), however they never mention the cable pig commercials and never even mention DBS in any way. They just show a number of people who say things like, "I thought digital cable was really expensive, but its not."

Then there was the installer who put in my original Primestar system and knocked virtually every panel out of our dropped (he really took this dropped thing literally) ceiling in the basement family room.

And the "installer" who came to switch out our Primestar boxes for DirecTV. I had it set up so we could watch the signal from the bedroom in the kitchen, and he was really glad I was there to help him make the change. Lets see, one cable in, one cable out. Really difficult.

And then there are all the Dish ads promoting the fact that you have over 400 channels available. Have they got those 200 HSN channels up and running now?


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## waydwolf (Feb 2, 2003)

I love the DBS ads whining about some digital cable channels being analog. Those channels are the analog basic and expanded channels which can be received WITHOUT a box by any cable ready television set. And in a few years, TVs and VCRs will come with digital cable tuners changing the definition of cable-ready and making all digital easily possible and freeing people of a box rental short of value-added services like Video on Demand, and even that will be standardized and made modular and an option on TVs and VCRs. Before then, it is easily possible to duplicate all analog programing as digital and program the digital boxes to look at those slots instead of using the analog tuner. Cable has the bandwidth to do this easily.

When oh when are DirecTV and Dish Network going to get tuners compatible with their services standard on TVs and VCRs? Never, that's when.

Analog Basic: Cable box ONLY if non-cable-ready.
Expanded Basic: Cable box ONLY if non-cable-ready or getting pay channels.
Digital Cable: Cable box needed ONLY UNTIL digital tuners become standard.
Buy or Rent: RENT.
Box Failure: A new one is provided to keep your service running.

DBS: ALWAYS needs a box.
Buy or Rent: ALWAYS buy.
Box Failure: You BUY a new one.

Cost? I pay a reasonable rate for an infrastructure of field service and support which is always there when I need it. DBS? If it wasn't for being an installer, I'd be on my own completely and up a stream without a paddle.

And I take comfort in knowing they are making a profit and remaining economically healthy so they can continue being there providing my services and upgrading technologically as time goes by. By the time DBS gets around to upgrading their service technologically, I'll have fiber to the curb or even my home.

DBS: SD and HD, PVR, no service structure
Cable: SD and HD, PVR, VoD, Telephony, HSD, massive service structure

That truth alone is enough to make DBS look unattractive and no amount of obfuscation by the industry will change it.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

JulienPDX said:


> 2) DirecTV and DISH Network's dumb policy of treating every individual as a "new customer" only ONCE in their lifetime. (ie there are no "come back to us" specials or "switching" specials)


DISH Network has recently been allowing former subs to sign back up under their DHA lease plan. Also, who was USN?


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

waydwolf said:


> DBS: ALWAYS needs a box.
> Buy or Rent: ALWAYS buy.
> Box Failure: You BUY a new one.


NO! DISH Network has had lease plans available for years! And their most recent plan has no commitment.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

waydwolf said:


> I love the DBS ads whining about some digital cable channels being analog. Those channels are the analog basic and expanded channels which can be received WITHOUT a box by any cable ready television set. And in a few years, TVs and VCRs will come with digital cable tuners changing the definition of cable-ready and making all digital easily possible and freeing people of a box rental short of value-added services like Video on Demand, and even that will be standardized and made modular and an option on TVs and VCRs. Before then, it is easily possible to duplicate all analog programing as digital and program the digital boxes to look at those slots instead of using the analog tuner. Cable has the bandwidth to do this easily.
> 
> When oh when are DirecTV and Dish Network going to get tuners compatible with their services standard on TVs and VCRs? Never, that's when.


Way,

There are a number of televisions on the market today that have integrated DirecTV tuners, but that is not the case with Dish.

Secondly even when TV's have digital tuners in them many subscribers will still need that Cable Box, why you ask becuase of the cable companies encryption for premium channels.

John


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

Actually part of the digital cable tuner spec will have a smartcard slot that you can get a smart card from your local cable company to decrypt the premium channels without a cable box. It is not said what the cable cos will charge for the card though...


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

Has anyone seen the new onlycablecan.com add's? I want to know were the onlydbscan.com add's are? someone needs to start that website! onlycablecan.com is filled with cable company propaganda, and is a big bunch of false statements which most regular non-tech savvy people believe. I would like to know how cable company's get away with such false add's on TV? why hasn't one of the satellite TV company's starting suing a few major cable company's to make a general industry statement? 
~I know that Time Warner has now filled it's add space which is provided by the networks with 90% pro cable-anti-satellite adds, like the newest one- it starts by showing people in a small town all getting ready for a super bowl type event all chanting "Go Bluebirds"-the made up football team, buying food, painting their heads and trucks blue and setting up for the big party. It starts to rain. Then it shows one party with cable TV watching the game-all joyful, and another with satellite TV with no signal due to the light rain-with the person yelling and hitting his remote on the table, then it shows the TV screen which reads "The satellite signal has been lost." Then it goes onto to promote digital cable and trash satellite TV. This needs to stop! :nono2:


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Waydwolf, I do not know what your service is in your area. I can only speak from MY area which is served by Comcast (formerly AT&T Broadband, formerly Comcast, formerly Scripps-Howard) until August, 2001, and my extemely limited experience with Adelphia digital cable in Fillmore, CA during a visit to a friend in early January, 2003.

I want you to go to Comcast and enter in the zip code of 95610. That's about as specific a location as I will get. Then, take a look at the services and rates. Their "digital classic" is $52.44, while their "digital plus" is $57.44. That is with ONE digital receiver. DVR service? Not offerred. And since there is no agreement with KOVR-13, that channel is carried as a standard OTA channel, not in HD, so a lot of people who wanted to watch the Super Bowl has to put up an antenna. They, do, however, carry Goodlife TV and International Channel.

In terms of pricing, my Total Choice Plus with locals is better. I'm not sure if I'm locked in at the old rate of $40 or if my rate will increase to $43 with the March increase. Assuming $43, I pay an additional $10 for two receivers and $5 DVR fee for DirecTiVo service (which applies to all DirecTiVos on a account). That brings my total up to ~$58 per month. The TiVo has been upgraded from 35 hours to 120 hours, and will be upgraded again to 240 hours. I'm getting MORE than cable's Digital plus at the same rate.

In regards to equipment fees, when I left Comcast in 2001, they had only two analog receivers receivers and one digital receiver. (At the time, Digital Cable didn't have too many non-premium channels). One analog receiver was bare bones, while another was needed just to set a total of TEN timers for recording. My VCR didn't have the capability to change the channel on the cable box. No interactive program guide was available on the analog receivers, and I did not have the opportunity to use a digital box.

On a trip early last year, I got to play around with a digital cable system by Adelphia in Fillmore, CA, and was less than impressed. The interactive program guide was unbearibly show and hard to navigate. During the viewing of _A Beautiful Mind_ on HBO, the picture went into complete pixelation with artifacts for several seconds. This suggests that the MPEG compression is being done at the head end, and they are overcompressing by reducing how often a full screen is sent down the line. (See this link for some details.) In contrast, the worst I got with DBS was a blurry picture for three seconds before it "snapped" to a sharp picture. And, if the compression is taking place at the head end, anyone want to hazard a guess as to how often they will upgrade and maintain the equipment.

Needless to say, the DBS receivers are more powerful that the cable TV boxes that I've encountered. But you mentioned receiver price. As you are well aware, the best deals are for new customers, so I will stick with deals for existing customers only. According to Dish Depot (who sponsors the Survivor contest-thank you Dish Depot), a 311 receiver costs $109, and a 508 single tuner DVR costs $259. Expert Satellite has replacement receivers for $50, and the two-tuner TiVo for $100. (A one year commitment is required.) Can you purchase a receiver from the cable company and save some money? Not that I'm aware of.

And, how committed is your cable company to the community? When I was with AT&T Broadband (prior to the merger), my check went to a processing center in Denver. The call center was located in another state.

Internet? Satellite internet sucks because of lag time, and there is no way around that. However, long time subscribers to the local cable Internet went from a @home.com address to a @attbi.com to a @comcast.com address... within a 16 month time period. There was a point where the @home.com service was dropped, and it took almost 15 days for attbi to transition everyone to a new system. (There were major stories about that in the media.) Want cable Internet without cable TV? That costs more. And I know of someone who runs a business. His location is literally several hundred feet from the cable company, but because he is a business, they will NOT serve him high-speed internet-period. We have run DSL checks several times-DSL is NOT POSSIBLE in his location.

There are some cable companies who do an excellent job. Comcast Sacramento isn't one of them. And, since I switched in 2001, I have noticed an increased number of DBS dishes in the neighborhood. This is not a good sign. I have a friend who would like to dump cable. I know of noone who is satisfied with the local cable company.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Some of the things that were being said against satellite by the cable companies in the past are probably true now.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

Mark Holtz said:


> Want cable Internet without cable TV? That costs more.


There is one exception here. Time Warner and Brighthouse areas. Due to agreements made to push through the AOL - Time Warner merger, Time Warner/BrightHouse Cable must provide 3rd party cable internet service. Companies such as Earthlink and (in Texas) STIC.net provide cable internet service with no additional fees. We get Earthlink Cable Internet for $42/mo. Roadrunner is $50/mo without cable TV, $45/mo with analog, and $40/mo with digital. DSL is much more expensive for a comparative service. So Time Warner and Brighthouse areas have it lucky.

Some Comcast areas (Washington State, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine) can also get Earthlink Cable with no penalty for satellite users.

See http://www.earthlink.net


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

In my city, Comcast is constantly running commercials that try to make the "long-term contract" you do with DBS companies look like such an overwhelming burden that you shouldn't have to be locked into it to get good programming. They tell you how they won't make you sign a contract. But they go on to tell you they'll give you $400 for your DBS equipment...paid as monthly credit for--get this--16 months. (Sounds like the equivalent of a contract to me.) This requires people to use their brains and realize 1) if they can pay me $400, they must be getting all that money from somewhere and that somewhere is higher rates and 2) If I leave them early, I don't get all of my $400.

Cable is blind to what I believe is the biggest reason people leave them in the first place: they don't want to pay higher prices for their service. I left cable for that reason as well as the absolutely lousy customer service. They had a monopoly (as far as cable goes) and they treated me like it. I've had satellite for years and I seriously doubt I'll ever go back.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

durl said:


> But they go on to tell you they'll give you $400 for your DBS equipment...paid as monthly credit for--get this--16 months. (Sounds like the equivalent of a contract to me.)


"To receive $400 in credits, you must agree to subscribe to a sixteen-month (16) term to Comcast Digital Cable, transfer ownership of your dish to Comcast, not be under contract with your current DBS provider and remain a customer in good standing. The credit will be issued in the form of 16 equal monthly credits of $25 each reflected on the customer's billing statement. Regular monthly cost for Comcast Digital Cable will apple after 16-month promotional period ends."

So I guess you can rack up a ton of PPV charges, then turn the equipment over to Comcast, and let Comcast pick up the tab.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Even though cable may be higher in some areas, if you take the bundled packages that offer broadband internet with the cable service, then the discount you get for the broadband internet helps make it close to the price of DBS, if not cheaper in some cases.

I imagine some would just find a cheap dish and receiver for a total of a little over $100 to give them instead of their more expensive hardware to get the $400 discount.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

My digital cable, local and unlimited long distance, and internet are all bundled. I can't afford to split them up. If the product I was receiving or the service was poor I might go elsewhere even if I had to pay more, but that isn't even a factor. The picture etc. is great, and the service is excellent.


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## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

good Enjoy those anolog channels on digital cable ya Troll


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Jacob S said:


> Even though cable may be higher in some areas, if you take the bundled packages that offer broadband internet with the cable service, then the discount you get for the broadband internet helps make it close to the price of DBS, if not cheaper in some cases.


The individual prices of my area's cable services are expensive enough that even with the alleged "package discount" one is still better off finding separate providers.

The billed price of cable doesn't decrease with bundling and starts at $41.99 (so far) for 59 channels including locals in the count. No access to PPVs or an EPG for that price - That costs $14.99 extra. Also only one FSN (I get two plus alts and ESPN alts on E*). $56.98 - wow.

The billed price for high speed internet is discounted with cable, but $60 minus $14 is still $46. DSL is $35 (or $30 if bundled with phone feature packages). There is an alleged speed difference, but 1.5 mbps is enough.

Cable doesn't offer phone service in my market - no bundle there. Besides, when cable goes out for three days due to a power failure I don't want to lose my phone service too!

Nobody in my town is bundling wireless yet.

JL
Prices vary in Papillion Nebraska, which is apparently a great 
place to live, but a tough commute when the job isn't there.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

I used to constantly see the cable commercial where the satellite installer guy is explaining all the various charges (making it seem like DBS is a rip-off), and I can't help but be perplexed, since cable has almost all of the same charges anyhow.

For example, the issue with needing a decoder box (receiver) in each room you want to watch television in. Yes, this is certainly true for satellite, but it's also equally true for digital cable; you can only watch the crummy analog cable channels without a box in each room.

Similarly, what about the "additional receiver programming fees"? Well, sure, we do get charged that on DBS, but we generally get free equipment which we own. For cable, they bill you a monthly fee to rent each box. So these are again the same, you're basically paying a small fee per box.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

pez2002 said:


> good Enjoy those anolog channels on digital cable ya Troll


Who are you calling a troll?


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

justalurker said:


> Cable doesn't offer phone service in my market - no bundle there. Besides, when cable goes out for three days due to a power failure I don't want to lose my phone service too![/SIZE]


In almost 2 and a half years I have only lost my signal a handful of times. Several times for a short period while they upgraded the television service and the same when the did upgrades on the internet service. Neither affected the phone service. The only times everything was affected is when somebody took out a power pole with their car, which took them about an hour to fix, and when my wife shoved a shovel through the buried cable while gardening. That took them about two hours to fix, after my initial call. But I can hardly blame them, and the same thing could have happened when we had buried cable running to our dish. I know you guys don't like to hear this, and some can't believe it, but I used to have much more frequent outages with my dish and rain and snow fade than I have had with this cable company. YMMV.


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## James Hill (Jul 24, 2003)

Bogy said:


> Who are you calling a troll?


Probably you. Wouldn't be the first.

Anyway, Ozzie must need the cash. How could the greatest fielder in the history of baseball make such a mistake?

James Hill


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bogy said:


> In almost 2 and a half years I have only lost my signal a handful of times.
> . . .
> YMMV.


And does. Cable was out three days last September. My good old residential service POTS phone has never been out. (And I mean never in the past 20 years - despite several moves. YMMV)

JL


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

In some areas, cable service actually goes out in times of bad weather. For example, if it is particularly stormy, it's actually possible to lose all of the (analog) cable channels. Certainly DBS suffers from rain fade in these scenarios as well, but it's bizarre that cable has these types of issues.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I lost some (private) cable channels at the apartments I once lived in because their dishes filled with snow. After two days I walked in the office and asked for a broom. They said they couldn't do anything because of a contract with whoever installed their headend. I told them I had experience cleaning dishes. A half hour later the complex had ALL of their cable channels back after I took said broom to their two 12ft dishes (especially the deep dish, which had 3-4ft of snow in it). They were scrambled for a couple of hours until the next videocypher hit came.

CNN was one of the channels out, and this was in late November of 2000. I didn't want to miss the election outcome. They should have paid me for cleaning their dishes, but I was glad to get my channels back.

JL


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

justalurker said:


> And does. Cable was out three days last September. My good old residential service POTS phone has never been out. (And I mean never in the past 20 years - despite several moves. YMMV)
> 
> JL


Before moving to Nebraska I lived in an area of St. Louis County experiencing huge growth, with a lot of contruction. We lost phone service every once in a while when the poles were being moved, not to mention that every time another carrier was added to the cell tower on our property our buried cable got cut again.

You are confusing things that affect video with phone service. Snow on the dishes does not effect telephone service. The television part of your cable service can be out with no effect at all on phone service. However, any signal that is carried over wires, including signals from Ma Bell in the old days, can be affected if something happens to those wires. If the wires are attached to poles, and the poles go down, your telephone will stop working, whether its wires from the cable company or the phone company. As I said before, we lost phone service in a couple of instances where the cable co. was in no way at fault.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bogy said:


> You are confusing things that affect video with phone service.


No, I'm not. I'm talking about two separate issues.
#1 the fact that all cable services, including HSI, was out for three days last year whilst my home telephone has not been out in 20 years. YMMV. If HSI is down, IP based phone via cable is down as well.
#2 the fact that snow in the dish is a problem with big dish satellite companies as well. Cable claims the DBS people lose signal every storm. I lost signal because the cable company didn't do their job of cleaning their dish.

Notice how those are unreated issues. Hope you are not confused anymore.



Bogy said:


> However, any signal that is carried over wires, including signals from Ma Bell in the old days, can be affected if something happens to those wires. If the wires are attached to poles, and the poles go down, your telephone will stop working, whether its wires from the cable company or the phone company. As I said before, we lost phone service in a couple of instances where the cable co. was in no way at fault.


And I havn't lost my residential service in at least 20 years. Memory fades before that time, but picking up a phone and finding it dead is a VERY rare occurance for me. (I've done it to myself crossing wires, but I won't blame the phone company for my errors.)

The key to that is good network planning. Much of the old "ma bell" network is dry copper. No power needed except at the CO. One has to physically break or short the wire to ruin the connection. If there is a remote concentrator that needs power, but they also have batteries for backup until generators can be brought on site. Cable networks rely to heavily on the utility power being present for their repeaters with no backup. I suppose the thought is that if the power is off in my neighborhood I don't need cable or internet. That thought doesn't work when you need the phone. Telcos have figured that out.

BTW: *I* have a generator, so my computer keeps running. (That and the water pump so I can flush the toilet. Just the important stuff !!!) Yeah, even my DBS worked great on the generator when cable was out. I just wish that HSI stayed on so I could have been on the net those three days. The telco (not cable) phone worked fine. 

JL


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Makes one wonder how long the cell sites will run without power since many of us use a cell phone for voice communications.

At my previous job, my father wondered why I kept a regular handset phone in the storage closet even though we have a regular office phone system. Six months later, someone knocked over a power pole and left us without power for several hours. I simply unplugged the regular phone line that went into the phone system and plugged in a regular telephone, and we were able to receive _some_ incoming calls. (There were two incoming voice lines, and one line had busy-call forwarding to the other line).


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

Mark Holtz said:


> Makes one wonder how long the cell sites will run without power since many of us use a cell phone for voice communications.


Mark, I will answer your question, and ignore justalurker since his antagonism towards cable companies will not let him admit cars running into poles does not constitute "poor network planning." 

The cell tower that was on our property in St. Louis had backup generators. I can't remember now just how long they would run before they ran out of fuel, but they had pretty good sized tanks onsite. From the tower the signal was hardwired into the regular phone grid. Which is why every time we added a new carrier our line got cut, when they buried their line they always cut ours. Must have been poor network planning.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bogy said:


> Mark, I will answer your question, and ignore justalurker since his antagonism towards cable companies will not let him admit cars running into poles does not constitute "poor network planning."


Why don't we ingore you, for your arrogance and trollish behaviour?

Think about it. A car hits a power pole and knocks out power. Which service fails? Power plus telephone or cable? Because of good network planning the telephone company is more likely to remain on regardless of power (battery backup or no power required).

A car hitting a telephone or cable pole or pedistal may take out telephone or cable service. Knocking out power service is more likely to take out cable than telephone.

Just ask the people in the NE - that's North East. A widespread blackout last year. Guess how many cable companies went down? How about how many telephone companies?

I realize it it like tossing pearls before swine explaining it to you. But there it is. Now if you remain ignorant it is a choice.



Bogy said:


> The cell tower that was on our property in St. Louis had backup generators. I can't remember now just how long they would run before they ran out of fuel, but they had pretty good sized tanks onsite. From the tower the signal was hardwired into the regular phone grid. Which is why every time we added a new carrier our line got cut, when they buried their line they always cut ours. Must have been poor network planning.


Yes, that cellco and teleco had poor planning. Obviously they didn't protect their cables. It *is* possible to add on to a tower site without destroying the services of others. There are morons, even in good businesses.

In this area the better cellcos have digital lines, but also have their own independent system of microwave links. As I said, a better cellco. FYI: The generators I'm delt with will run for days (the company I work for ran one for a whole weekend and still had 3/4 of a tank left over). I'd say a week would be good. Then again there are sites that have a natural gas generator. Which is fine unless the backhow catches the line.

It is a world full a risk. Those that plan better succeed in staying alive.

JL


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2004)

Funny how cable companies hate satellite tv so much. Cable co.s actually get their programming from satellites. So are they not, then, a "satellite provider"? Does this mean they hate themselves?


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

justalurker said:


> Why don't we ingore you, for your arrogance and trollish behaviour?
> 
> Think about it. A car hits a power pole and knocks out power. Which service fails? Power plus telephone or cable? Because of good network planning the telephone company is more likely to remain on regardless of power (battery backup or no power required).
> 
> A car hitting a telephone or cable pole or pedistal may take out telephone or cable service. Knocking out power service is more likely to take out cable than telephone.


Speaking of arrogance...  
A car hits a pole. Attached to the pole is a phone line. The pole falls over, snapping the phone line. Guess what happens.  
If that pole has attached to it power lines, phone lines and cable lines, it doesn't matter what you have, its going out. I have tried to make this real simple, even for you. I've had POTS service go out due to such an accident, I've had cable service go out due to such an accident. That was my point. Goody for you to have been lucky enough never to have been on the receiving end of such an accident, but many have not had your luck. However, most of these people still have a phone in their home, even though its not 100% infallible.

And the next time you call me a troll, you better have a smile on your face.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

crest said:


> Funny how cable companies hate satellite tv so much. Cable co.s actually get their programming from satellites. So are they not, then, a "satellite provider"? Does this mean they hate themselves?


It's a complex love/hate relationship.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bogy said:


> Speaking of arrogance...


Yes, you are the best example on ths forum.

You just can't admit that cable service is much more fragile than telephone service. I've seen plenty of hit poles where only one service goes out. If all three services are on a pole and one of those three has physically failed you have a two thirds chance that your cable (and cable telephone) has failed.

Pearls before swine.



Bogy said:


> And the next time you call me a troll, you better have a smile on your face.


Or what? You will darn me to heck with your spoon?
!Devil_lol

:icon_stup Bogy exhibits trolish behavior. :raspberry

HTH HAND DDTKA

JL


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

The funniest thing to me is that Primestar use to be owned my Comcast in the first place. I even remember back when it owned by them there were running anti satellit commericals. 

A. It does not take a brain surgeon to isntall a satellite dish.
B. All the plains I have seen come with professional installtion
C. I live in florida rain capaital of the world. only when tropical stroms go by do i ever have a problem even when I do I am usualy able to still tune int oa a local statation no biggie as the signal is always 125maxed out on my local spotbeam. 
D. I have read awful storeis about installers but the ones that service my area. Are great professional guys and they been out twice once fo the main install and then a 2nd time for 61.5 dish. No problems at all.

Another thing that bothers me is that well you have to pay for locals well, I pay for locals on cable too it just buried in the cost and I could not get rid of them if i wanted to. Even with the locals I am saving 27 dollars a month compared to what I was paying with Comcast Digital cable . For the record it call Comcast Cable of South West Florida. to do some finger pointing.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

justalurker said:


> I lost some (private) cable channels at the apartments I once lived in because their dishes filled with snow. After two days I walked in the office and asked for a broom. They said they couldn't do anything because of a contract with whoever installed their headend. I told them I had experience cleaning dishes. A half hour later the complex had ALL of their cable channels back after I took said broom to their two 12ft dishes (especially the deep dish, which had 3-4ft of snow in it). They were scrambled for a couple of hours until the next videocypher hit came.


Back around 1996 or so I lived in an apartment complex who's cable system was comprised of several huge C-band dishes located in an adjacent lot. It was really cool though because the previous apartment I lived in had crappy 40 channel cable.

This place had something like 55 channels. They never billed you, although they were supposed to. You got all the premiums on all your TVs for free, including HBO 1, HBO 2, HBO 3, Cinemax, The Movie Channel, and Showtime. The quality was good.

Sadly, around the time the complex was sold to another company, they dismantled the satellites and switched the complex over to some crappy cable company, Phonoscope, that did cable for apartment complexes. Everyone had to pay up. Then allegedly OpTel bought Phonoscope. But as I found out last year, OpTel went bankrupt and became TVMAX, and Phonoscope is still independent.

In 1998 I moved to a complex down the road. Each TV got something like 38 channels. However, a new service was beta testing in the area, which we signed up for: TCI Digital Cable


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## Frostilicus (Aug 22, 2003)

I've never had bird outages, but I did once lose my Directv feed when I was in an apartment. When I went to the window to see what the trouble was, I had a squirrel sitting on the LNB. That would make an interesting commercial!


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