# Liberty Media vs Charlie Ergen for Sirius XM?



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

*Sirius XM Radio In Talks With Liberty Media: Report*

SAN FRANCISCO -- Sirius XM Radio Inc. is in preliminary talks with Liberty Media Corp., in a move that could spark a bidding war for Sirius between Liberty and fellow suitor EchoStar Corp. , according to a media report late Wednesday. The online edition of the New York Times, citing unnamed sources, reported that the talks between Sirius and Liberty are "preliminary." Meanwhile, Sirius Chief Executive Mel Karmazin "has been locked in talks" with EchoStar CEO Charles Ergen over a possible deal, according to the report. Sirius shares were hit hard Wednesday by reports that the satellite-radio company is considering filing for bankruptcy.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/ma...a/sirius-xm-radio-talks-liberty-media-report/


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Charlie could come out great on this no matter how it settles out. He either ends up owning SiriusXM or he gets paid face value for the substantial debt that he holds and most likely bought at a VERY large discount.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Richard King said:


> Charlie could come out great on this no matter how it settles out. He either ends up owning SiriusXM or he gets paid face value for the substantial debt that he holds and most likely bought at a VERY large discount.


Yet another case of the rich getting richer :raspberry Why does it always work out that way?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Dolly said:


> Yet another case of the rich getting richer :raspberry Why does it always work out that way?


The rich have the money to get richer with?


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

James Long said:


> The rich have the money to get richer with?


I have heard all my life you have to have money to make money. But no one ever told me how you could make enough money to have money? Certainly no job I have ever held has given me enough money to have money 
Sorry I can't resist this one--for all the money Charlie has his E*/Dish don't seem to be doing all that well


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

Dolly said:


> I have heard all my life *you have to have money to make money.* But no one ever told me *how you could make enough money to have money?* Certainly *no job I have ever held has given me enough money to have money*
> Sorry I can't resist this one--for all the money Charlie has his E*/Dish don't seem to be doing all that well


Are you really Yogi Berra just using the name Dolly? :lol:


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## Jtaylor1 (Jan 27, 2008)

I just hope Liberty Media wins the Sirius XM buyout battle.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Dolly said:


> Yet another case of the rich getting richer :raspberry Why does it always work out that way?


Actually, the shareholders of Echostar get richer also. Sure, Charlie owns half the shares, the other half goes to the other shareholders, all of whom are not rich (I can guarantee that). Besides, Charlie took the risk to start the company, why shouldn't he get rich and richer as the company grows and hopefully prospers?


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## david_jr (Dec 10, 2006)

Personally I'm rooting for Ergen. Dish subscriber and XM subscriber.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

I WANT MORE said:


> Are you really Yogi Berra just using the name Dolly? :lol:


!rolling :lol: Sorry you're right I did sound like Yogi in that TV commercial he does--"and if you get hurt and miss work it won't hurt to miss work" :blush:


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Look what I just found http://siriusbuzz.com/sirius-xm-to-avoid-chapter-11.php What do you think?


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

It means my nearly-worthless SiriusXM stock is going to bump on Tuesday.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Wonderful. Malone has money to loan out, but none to spend on more HD channels for DIREC*TV*.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Richard King said:


> Actually, the shareholders of Echostar get richer also. Sure, Charlie owns half the shares, the other half goes to the other shareholders, all of whom are not rich (I can guarantee that). Besides, Charlie took the risk to start the company, why shouldn't he get rich and richer as the company grows and hopefully prospers?


Yes, but my point was Charlie had to have the money to start the company. I don't have money to start a company? And I don't personally know anyone that has the money to start a company. Some people have it made while the rest of us are just trying to keep our bills paid on time. Life is soooooooo unfair


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I wonder where he got the money to start. Probably saved it up while working as an employee for Frito-Lay.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Richard King said:


> I wonder where he got the money to start. Probably saved it up while working as an employee for Frito-Lay.


Like nearly any big company and even many small businesses, he put together a business plan and sought financing from investors. In fact, he's probably had to do that several times over as he expanded from a small satellite equipment manufacturer to a big-dish programming provider to a DBS provider.

One of the reasons to go to college, and to join a fraternity, is to establish bonds to people who will be useful contacts, and possibily business partners or investors, later in life. And one of the main reasons to go to graduate school to get an MBA is to learn how to create business plans that will interest large investors. Then you use your contacts, and THEIR contacts, to find the right investors. If your idea has merit, and your business plan is good, chances are that you'll find someone willing to finance it.


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Richard King said:


> I wonder where he got the money to start. Probably saved it up while working as an employee for Frito-Lay.


Mr. King where do you get those great lines from :lol: However, this round it looks like old Charlie may be out of luck. I had a business news show turned on and scrolling across my TV screen was the news credited to the Wall St. Journal that Liberty and Sirius XM were close to a deal. What in the world took Mel so long??????? Mel was the one that called Malone for help in the first place. So Malone offers help and it was like Mel said I know I called you, but let me think about you helping me


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Dolly said:


> Mr. King where do you get those great lines from :lol: However, this round it looks like old Charlie may be out of luck. I had a business news show turned on and scrolling across my TV screen was the news credited to the Wall St. Journal that Liberty and Sirius XM were close to a deal. What in the world took Mel so long??????? Mel was the one that called Malone for help in the first place. So Malone offers help and it was like Mel said I know I called you, but let me think about you helping me


If Liberty strikes a deal with XM then Charlie wins - the debt will likely be purchased at face value and he gets a giant payday. Far from out of luck... this is really the best case scenario for him.


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

I am not so sure Charlie wins. It sounds like Liberty will be getting a substantial stake in the company for its generous loan. That may affect the price that Charlie has to pay to continue using Sirius on Dish.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DoyleS said:


> That may affect the price that Charlie has to pay to continue using Sirius on Dish.


Are you sure Charlie pays?


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

DoyleS said:


> I am not so sure Charlie wins. It sounds like Liberty will be getting a substantial stake in the company for its generous loan. That may affect the price that Charlie has to pay to continue using Sirius on Dish.


I don't think he cares... even if he does pay anything, as James pointed out. If he bought the debt at the FMV about a week or so ago he likely paid about 70-80 cents on the dollar. He'll get a 20-30% return for a few weeks worth of investment. Yeah, I'd be pretty happy with that.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I don't think he pays for Sirius on Dish. I SUSPECT that Sirius wanted Dish to carry them as a promotion. Of course, Dish was happy to have some free programming to fill in some voids in the music area. What should be interesting is to see if SiriusXM pulls the Sirius channels after this, although that would be shooting themselves in the foot in my opinion.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

From http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2009/02/16/daily15.html

_"The Wall Street Journal and Financial Times reported Monday evening that DirecTV's parent, Liberty Media Corp., is close to a deal to invest several hundred million dollars in Sirius XM Satellite Radio Inc.

The action by Liberty Media (NASDAQ: LCAPA) could rescue the New York-based satellite radio company from a Feb. 17 debt deadline. Missing the deadline might cause Sirius (NASDAQ: SIRI) to go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection."_


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

tcusta00 said:


> I don't think he cares... even if he does pay anything, as James pointed out. If he bought the debt at the FMV about a week or so ago he likely paid about 70-80 cents on the dollar. He'll get a 20-30% return for a few weeks worth of investment. Yeah, I'd be pretty happy with that.


Bingo. Charlie wins either way this plays out. Not a bad move on his part.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Dolly said:


> Mr. King where do you get those great lines from :lol:


Ah, but he DID start his career at Frito-Lay.  I suspect the connections in college is probably more accurate, but the money saved while working at Frito-Lay could be very possible. Supposedly he started out by simply buying one satellite system and then turning around and selling it to a rancher in Colorado, providing the money to buy more inventory. He was one of the first doing this and jumped on the opportunity. Everything just grew from there. Of course, I left out the part where he and Jim crashed the truck with their only dish on it and had to hustle to get the $$ together to buy a second dish to replace it. This is all info that was covered at the Dealer summit that I went to many years ago, and I think on one of the anniversary Charlie Chats.

Here's a picture from about the time that he started Echosphere and started selling dishes. Notice the price attached to this "satellite system". 
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_F1B1mQQbEH8/R-xO5shtZeI/AAAAAAAAABo/QQLudUsXrro/s1600-h/Neiman+tv.jpg


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

I hear what you are saying but it sure sounds like the Ergen Karmazian relationship is not a lovefest. That being the case, it would seem that once Mel had Charlie on the hook for decent music that he would be trying to extract some coin, especially since Mel seems to be a bit short in the bank account. If Charlie isn't paying anything for use of Sirius then things could change a lot based on what happens in the next 24.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

DoyleS said:


> I hear what you are saying but it sure sounds like the Ergen Karmazian relationship is not a lovefest. That being the case, it would seem that once Mel had Charlie on the hook for decent music that he would be trying to extract some coin, especially since Mel seems to be a bit short in the bank account. If Charlie isn't paying anything for use of Sirius then things could change a lot based on what happens in the next 24.


What you're forgetting is that Mel will be out of a job once new ownership takes over. :lol:

Even if Mel stays, this is still a product Charlie can get elsewhere... Music Choice, DMX, etc., are all still viable options. I don't think much will change.


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## krock918316 (Mar 5, 2007)

bidger said:


> Wonderful. Malone has money to loan out, but none to spend on more HD channels for DIREC*TV*.


:beatdeadhorse:


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## DoyleS (Oct 21, 2002)

Either way it goes, Mel is likely to have less to say. Either Charlie or Malone do become significant influences. At this point, I guess we all Tune in Tomorrow for the latest episode.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Even if Mel stays, this is still a product Charlie can get elsewhere... Music Choice, DMX, etc., are all still viable options. I don't think much will change.


Maybe Charlie will buy Muzak. :lol:


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Oh my gosh Mr. King I just thought you made that line up and here it was the truth :lol: !rolling However, when I said it looks like this time Charlie loses I just meant that he isn't going to get Sirius XM. At least I don't think so, however, the deal with Liberty STILL isn't FINAL yet  Come on people put a fork in it already--it is done to a crisp!!!!!!!!


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

It's a done deal  It was on a morning business show and the news came out around 8 o'clock. Sirius XM stock was already starting to move up and the Market isn't even open yet. Now may be I can go to sleep thinking may be I might get my money's worth out of a lifetime sub yet. This situation was really bothering me I can't even imagine what the shareholders felt like during all of this!


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Some shareholders (like me) had pretty much given up on things.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Ditto. But the terms of this "survival" are going to kill it anyway.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Let's continue the discussion here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=152567


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