# DirecTV Scam



## satusertalk (Feb 11, 2008)

I signed up for DirecTV in Feb of 2007. At that time I got a regular receiver as well as a DVR receiver, both on lease. I was informed by the customer service rep on that phone at that time, that I was on a annual contract, which means I should have come off contract this month i.e. Feb 2008.
Also my DVR went bad 4 months later and DirecTV replaced it in June of 2007.
Now DirecTV is telling me:

1. Because I got a DVR, I am on a 2 yr and not a 1 yr contract. The cust service rep basically lied to me to get my business.
2. Because they replaced my defective leased DVR they also extended my contract by 4 months above and beyond the 2 yr contract.

In my opinion this is not only bait and switch, but illegal.
The way I look at it, DirecTV has me on a contract and anytime my DVR goes bad and they replace it, they will extend the contract. So in other words, I can never be out of a contract in theory if their defective DVRs (which they supply) keeps failing and they keep replacing it.

I want to take this matter to the right authorities - FCC, Better business bureau or whoever regulates that industry.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

Well, a DVR is a two year commitment with DIRECTV.

The replacement should not have generated a new commitment - so your commitment is 5 months longer than it should be.


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## bhelton71 (Mar 8, 2007)

Pink Fairy said:


> Well, a DVR is a two year commitment with DIRECTV.
> 
> The replacement should not have generated a new commitment - so your commitment is 5 months longer than it should be.


I think I have read - if you don't have the protection plan, getting a replacement does 'reset' your commitment.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

Not if it is leased equipment.


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## tim81 (Jul 3, 2007)

only replacing owned receivers with leases resets your commitment or if you add more equipment. otherwise, replacing a lease out of warranty you should just incur the shipping/handling, not extend your commitment. 

also, doesn't it say in the annual commitment the terms, i know whenever you activate a box they refer you to directv.com/agreements which says in like the first 2 paragraphs advanced equipment is a 2 yr. :nono2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Pink Fairy said:


> Not if it is leased equipment.


It would be nice if all the CSRs knew this.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

I agree.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

satusertalk said:


> I signed up for DirecTV in Feb of 2007. At that time I got a regular receiver as well as a DVR receiver, both on lease. I was informed by the customer service rep on that phone at that time, that I was on a annual contract, which means I should have come off contract this month i.e. Feb 2008.
> Also my DVR went bad 4 months later and DirecTV replaced it in June of 2007.
> Now DirecTV is telling me:
> 
> ...


Your account has had the documented DirecTV policy applied to it.

"Advanced" receivers leased from DirecTV require a 2 year programming commitment. This is well documented and you should have actually signed a document stating this when you originally signed up.

Your failed (leased) DVR which was replaced did "reset" your 2 year commitment, whether folks here think so or not. Various posters have stated that this is not DirecTV policy but their computer system does it to your account anyway. In any event, if you don't take the "protection plan" and your leased equipment fails and you have a replacement sent your commitment will be extended one year for standard receivers and two years for "advanced" receivers (like a DVR).

Sorry you feel you were duped, but you should know that nowadays what the CSR's/salespeople tell you means little. It's the SIGNED DOCUMENTS and SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT that govern what you are getting yourself into. You should have read them thoroughly before subscribing. Incidentally, the DirecTV SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT can be viewed online on their web site and it contains all these details that you now don't want to hear about.


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## Talos4 (Jun 21, 2007)

This is third board I've seen OP's post almost word for word. 

Give it up, you've pretty much heard the same thing on all the boards.

You'd have a better chance with a windmill!


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## tim81 (Jul 3, 2007)

_Your failed (leased) DVR which was replaced did "reset" your 2 year commitment, whether folks here think so or not. *Various posters have stated that this is not DirecTV policy but their computer system does it to your account anyway.* In any event, if you don't take the "protection plan" and your leased equipment fails and you have a replacement sent your commitment will be extended *one year for standard receivers *and two years for "advanced" receivers (like a DVR)._

i'm not sure where you're getting this from, maybe you could source it. also, it's 18 months, not one year, so i think your info is sketchy.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

I'm confused about whether getting a replacement unit for a failed unit restarts your commitment. Four possibilities:

1. If you DO have the protection plan, and you OWN the equipment, does your commitment extend/restart?

2. If you DO have the protection plan, and you have LEASED equipment, does your commitment extend/restart?

3. If you DON'T have the protection plan, and you OWN the equipment, does your commitment extend/restart?

4. If you DON'T have the protection plan, and you have LEASED equipment, does your commitment extend/restart?

Evidently, there are conflicting answers. Does anybody know what the truth is? (Thanks.)


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## Greyshadow2007 (Aug 23, 2006)

russdog said:


> I'm confused about whether getting a replacement unit for a failed unit restarts your commitment. Four possibilities:
> 
> 1. If you DO have the protection plan, and you OWN the equipment, does your commitment extend/restart?
> 
> ...


1. No
2. No
3. Yes (18 months standard receiver/24 months advanced)
4. No


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## PicaKing (Oct 8, 2006)

satusertalk said:


> I signed up for DirecTV in Feb of 2007. At that time I got a regular receiver as well as a DVR receiver, both on lease. I was informed by the customer service rep on that phone at that time, that I was on a annual contract, which means I should have come off contract this month i.e. Feb 2008.
> Also my DVR went bad 4 months later and DirecTV replaced it in June of 2007.
> Now DirecTV is telling me:
> 
> ...


Everybody wants to sue everybody. Enough already. You received a written copy of the agreement in the mail, and apparently you chose not to read it. That's your fault, and no one elses, so stop whining already.


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## quadmandan97 (Feb 8, 2007)

Call Directv and have the fix your account so your 2 year agreement starts on the day you signed up. Just explain that your receiver was a replacement for a defective one. There is nothing you can do about the 2 year contract.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Satusertalk --

Go back and check the documentation you received when your DirecTV system was installed and activated. You most likely signed an agreement to a 2-year programming commitment for your advanced equipment. There is really no way to get out of that commitment without paying an early termination fee (ETF). The FCC or the BBB won't be able to help. If you feel you've been duped, or you think there is something illegal about DirecTV's business practices, then complain to your state's Attorney General. Nothing will change for you, but it may prompt an investigation into DirecTV's commitment practices.

Regarding the commitment extension when you replaced the defective receiver, you can get that changed. Send a polite, well-written letter to DirecTV explaining that you weren't informed about the commitment extension, that you didn't agree to it, and you have received conficting information regarding whether the extension should have occurred. DirecTV will likely put a note on your account indicating the correct commitment date, so you won't be charged an ETF for the additional months if you cancel early.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


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## randyk47 (Aug 21, 2006)

There's no telling what a CSR will say. Not ready to go as far as to say they lie or deliberately mislead but there certainly is a wide range of potential answers for a single question and that's the basic problem to me. Because of my background I put that on the back of poor training and supervision supported by a computer system that apparently supports multiple, and sometimes conflicting and incomplete, information for basically the same situation or question. Most probably because I belong to this forum I had no question about exactly what I was getting into when I got my HD DVR last year. It was a 2-year obligation from day 1, it was a leased piece of equipment, and I'd be paying some kind of monthly mirroring fee (assuming it wasn't my primary). Granted the CSR told me that so at least in my case they were correct from the start. I really don't care about the obligation as I've been with DirecTV since 1999 and have absolutely no interest in switching to another provider. Yes, I get frustrated with minor bugs or PQ or audio problems from time to time but for us these are relatively rare and a whole lot less than we experienced with our old cable company.


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

if and when my leased HR21-700 ever fails, i am going solely through (redacted) to replace it so she can notate my account that my agreement DOES NOT extend.

Edit: (Tom Robertson) while we thank dtrell for his appreciation, we can't go outing DIRECTV people who are members.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

I'm seeing so many similar threads that it's starting to look like troll season.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

What I get a kick out of is that people come on and complain about the commitment and how they thought it was 1 year and it's really 2, but they're not trying to cancel. What's the problem? I just don't get it if you're not trying to cancel. Also, why are people constantly calling the CSR's to check on their commitment anyway? I don't call unless I need to change something on my account that I can't do myself online.


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## paulsown (Sep 18, 2007)

durl said:


> I'm seeing so many similar threads that it's starting to look like troll season.


Must be, because nobody would actually be unhappy with Directv, huh. WOW. Once again, someone unhappy with Directv is allegedly some type of troll.
Maybe people are just getting mad and fed up with Directv's current tactics, and looking for some place to vent.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

say-what -- I found out my commitment was extended incorrectly when I called to find out how much it would cost me to upgrade to an HD DVR. When I said that $320 seemed expensive, especially since DirecTV was offering significant discounts to others, the CSR told me they know they can get away with charging me more since I'm under commitment for another 18 months, and it will cost me more to cancel.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess some people just feel like they want to be free to bolt. Personally I don't mind committing to doing something I was going to do anyway.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Greyshadow2007 said:


> > Originally Posted by russdog
> > I'm confused about whether getting a replacement unit for a failed unit restarts your commitment. Four possibilities:
> >
> > 1. If you DO have the protection plan, and you OWN the equipment, does your commitment extend/restart?
> ...


I believe that #4 is only a No as long as it is under warranty, which I believe is typically 30 days. After something is out of warranty, DirecTV doesn't owe you anything and thus a replacement is treated as new receiver.

- Merg


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

say-what said:


> What I get a kick out of is that people come on and complain about the commitment and how they thought it was 1 year and it's really 2, but they're not trying to cancel. What's the problem? I just don't get it if you're not trying to cancel. Also, why are people constantly calling the CSR's to check on their commitment anyway? I don't call unless I need to change something on my account that I can't do myself online.


I understand people being upset, if they feel they were lied to...Even if they did not intend to cancel, feeling you are being scammed (valid or not) can change your perspective.

However, it's in the terms and agreements and not reading them is not a defense.

As always with any CSR when discussing terms or lack thereof, Get names, ID #s, document the date and time of hte conversation and ask for it in writing.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

paulsown said:


> Must be, because nobody would actually be unhappy with Directv, huh. WOW. Once again, someone unhappy with Directv is allegedly some type of troll.
> Maybe people are just getting mad and fed up with Directv's current tactics, and looking for some place to vent.


I'm not trying to say that anyone unhappy with Directv must be a troll. I just find it odd there seems to be a trend of new people to dbstalk.com that are upset about the commitment period.

There seems to be a couple of reasons why people join this forum. There are those that are interested in learning more about services and equipment, and those who are upset about something. I can fully understand a new member asking questions like "do I really have a commitment?" or "how is my commitment extended?" It's the new members who are calling for lawsuits and using phrases like "unfair tactics," "bait and switch," and "scam" that throw up a red flag to me.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Talos4 said:


> This is third board I've seen OP's post almost word for word.
> 
> Give it up, you've pretty much heard the same thing on all the boards.
> 
> You'd have a better chance with a windmill!


Why give it up?? The guys is asking for help. When I first signed up for Directv 2 and a half years ago. I read up on everything before hand. I knew what I was getting myself into with the contracts. When I called to order and get set up I was told by a CSR 3 times that I would only be under a 1 year even though I was getting a H20 and two R15's. I said to the CSR that this was not true and it would be two years. He actually started arguing with me and I almost said forget it. In the end I just agreed. So it does happen. I love Directv and I'm happy. They do make mistakes and more than people are willing to admit. Just because I read up on everything before hand does not mean some people have the time to do that. I totally believe this guys and its sad he has to go to three boards for some help. I've had great experiences on this board with help. I'm sorry some people can't be more understanding.

One more thing.If you knew what he was posting about why read this one?? I've never understood that. Anyway I hope you get some help man they can be misleading.


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

The Merg said:


> I believe that #4 is only a No as long as it is under warranty, which I believe is typically 30 days. After something is out of warranty, DirecTV doesn't owe you anything and thus a replacement is treated as new receiver.
> 
> - Merg


Since you never own a leased receiver, wouldn't it always be under warranty?


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

ehilbert1 said:


> Why give it up?? The guys is asking for help. When I first signed up for Directv 2 and a half years ago. I read up on everything before hand. I knew what I was getting myself into with the contracts. When I called to order and get set up I was told by a CSR 3 times that I would only be under a 1 year even though I was getting a H20 and two R15's. I said to the CSR that this was not true and it would be two years. He actually started arguing with me and I almost said forget it. In the end I just agreed. So it does happen. I love Directv and I'm happy. They do make mistakes and more than people are willing to admit. Just because I read up on everything before hand does not mean some people have the time to do that. I totally believe this guys and its sad he has to go to three boards for some help. I've had great experiences on this board with help. I'm sorry some people can't be more understanding.
> 
> One more thing.If you knew what he was posting about why read this one?? I've never understood that. Anyway I hope you get some help man they can be misleading.


The call for help is in regards to appealing to the FCC or the BBB with a lawsuit, calling Directv's commitment policy "bait and switch" and "illegal." There probably won't be a lot of help for that on any board. I believe most would be more understanding if the OP asked for help on how to proceed with a complaint to Directv rather than calling for a lawsuit.

I don't believe anyone would say Directv is perfect. I believe most of us would say that we've spoken with one of their CSRs that was less the fully informed.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cariera said:


> Since you never own a leased receiver, wouldn't it always be under warranty?


I think a clue is here: "I believe that #4 is only a No as long as it is under warranty, which I believe is typically 30 days."
The warranty is 90 days, so I'd guess there are other posting more accurate here.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

durl said:


> The call for help is in regards to appealing to the FCC or the BBB with a lawsuit, calling Directv's commitment policy "bait and switch" and "illegal." There probably won't be a lot of help for that on any board. I believe most would be more understanding if the OP asked for help on how to proceed with a complaint to Directv rather than calling for a lawsuit.
> 
> I don't believe anyone would say Directv is perfect. I believe most of us would say that we've spoken with one of their CSRs that was less the fully informed.


He's pissed off and needed help and to vent. Hell I wish Time Warner would have had a board like this to vent when I was with them. He's mad and venting cut him just a wee bit of slack. Unless you guys want to keep him off the board. If I wouldn't have read up on all the contract stuff I would be pissed too. I know that the CSR's are not perfect, but these are the people you are supposed to trust. Thats all I'm saying.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I think a clue is here: "I believe that #4 is only a No as long as it is under warranty, which I believe is typically 30 days."
> The warranty is 90 days, so I'd guess there are other posting more accurate here.


C'mon VOS... I do know that the Leased Receivers have a warranty length even though you don't own them. As for the length of the warranty, I just couldn't remember what it was off-hand and I don't concern myself with it too much as I have the Protection Plan so it makes it a moot point for me.

That being said, even with the warranty being 90 days, the OP's receiver would still have been out of warranty as he said it died after 4 months.

- Merg


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> That being said, even with the warranty being 90 days, the OP's receiver would still have been out of warranty as he said it died after 4 months.
> - Merg


See post #2


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Durl, et al,

Whenever we get a new flood of DBSTalk'ers and/or DIRECTV gets a new flood of customers (like when lots of new HD is released...) we tend to also see a few more vents and rants. Venters and Ranters, who are polite about it, are very welcome, and often turn into great contributers in the long-run. 

At least you didn't particularly call anyone a troll. We want to welcome everyone as much as possible.

Thanks for understanding, thanks for everyone helping others here, thanks for being here,
Tom


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

DirecTV's contract model seems to only benefit the company.

That's why I OWN all of my receivers and have Dish Network. The secondary market for owned DirecTV receivers is NIL. I've got several gathering dust in the garage. Only used DirecTiVos are worth something. Every Dish Network receiver that I've owned and sold netted more than I paid for it.

I'd go back to cable, before I'd subscribe to DirecTV. *DirecTV's contract model is like the subprime mortgage with a prepayment penalty.* You've GOT to read the *FINE PRINT.* I choose NOT to participate.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Since this IS a DirecTV forum, isn't this a Dish customer trolling here?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Pink Fairy said:


> Well, a DVR is a two year commitment with DIRECTV.
> 
> The replacement should not have generated a new commitment - so your commitment is 5 months longer than it should be.





veryoldschool said:


> See post #2


Is that what you were referring? Isn't that what has been discussed in a multitude of threads? IIRC, some of those threads mention that if you don't have a protection plan and the receiver is out of warranty, it will extend your commitment although some of them state the opposite. I don't recall a definitive answer from DirecTV on that issue.

- Merg


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## stewa348 (May 31, 2007)

If you do have the protection plan and renew that after one year, does that increase your commitment time? (from an original two year commitment)


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Since this IS a DirecTV forum, isn't this a Dish customer trolling here?


HAHAHA!!! :lol:

- Merg


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

stewa348 said:


> If you do have the protection plan and renew that after one year, does that increase your commitment time? (from an original two year commitment)


The Protection Plan itself does not extend your commitment time. Your commitment time is extended when you get a new receiver or replacement (depending on certain criteria as to why it is a replacement--go ahead and yell at me VOS ) or in some cases if you change your programming package (e.g. you are offered to upgrade to a new plan, but they want to give you free premium services as well, so they might ask you to extend your commitment).

- Merg


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## George_T (Sep 19, 2002)

I got my SD DVR for free in March '06 w/a two year commitment. It ended up being faulty, and thus it was swapped out to me by D* in July, '06. I later found out that since the DVR was swapped, they changed the date of my two year commitment to July, '08. 

Called D* regarding this issue, and explained to them that I wasn't going to leave, but I did think that it was unfair to restart my 2-yr commitment to July when the DVR was faulty. D* did give me a credit for the DVR rental for the length of the extended 2 yr rental (approx. 4 mo credit). The two year commitment remained the same, but I did get the credit to my account. Wasn't entirely happy, but at least they did give me the credit. I knew that probably this summer I would be getting a HDTV and would be upgrading to an HD-DVR, so I didn't want to fight the battle at the time because I may need to get a deal in the future.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> Since this IS a DirecTV forum, isn't this a Dish customer trolling here?


I am an installer both DirecTV and Dish. I subcontract for several dealers. My business makes it necessary to know about both DirecTV and Dish Network contracts and commitments.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Mike500 said:


> DirecTV's contract model seems to only benefit the company.
> 
> That's why I OWN all of my receivers and have Dish Network. The secondary market for owned DirecTV receivers is NIL. I've got several gathering dust in the garage. Only used DirecTiVos are worth something. Every Dish Network receiver that I've owned and sold netted more than I paid for it.
> 
> I'd go back to cable, before I'd subscribe to DirecTV. *DirecTV's contract model is like the subprime mortgage with a prepayment penalty.* You've GOT to read the *FINE PRINT.* I choose NOT to participate.


Hate to be the one to tell you.Dish has commitments too!.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Mike500 said:


> DirecTV's contract model seems to only benefit the company.
> 
> That's why I OWN all of my receivers and have Dish Network. The secondary market for owned DirecTV receivers is NIL. I've got several gathering dust in the garage. Only used DirecTiVos are worth something. Every Dish Network receiver that I've owned and sold netted more than I paid for it.
> 
> I'd go back to cable, before I'd subscribe to DirecTV. *DirecTV's contract model is like the subprime mortgage with a prepayment penalty.* You've GOT to read the *FINE PRINT.* I choose NOT to participate.


Fine. When Dish network provides the range of programming that I desire (NESN-HD for hockey via Center Ice, MLB Extra Innings), I would consider them as a valid choice. Since they currently do not, I do not. (And if I did switch, it would almost certainly be to FIOS, not Dish.)

Can't say I love the commitments, but so long as DirecTV reliably provides me with the content I desire, at a good price, with good service, I have no reason or desire to switch -- and thus the commitment has never become an issue with me. If things got so bad so quickly that I needed to switch prior to my commitment being up, I would do so and eat the costs.

It is simply not a big issue to me. I upgraded my equipment knowing full well the commitment I was agreeing to.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

Jhon69 said:


> Hate to be the one to tell you.Dish has commitments too!.


*Only, if you don't own the equipment or got a free install.*

If you own the equipment and do your own install, there is NO commitment.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Lets not this turn into a Dish/DIRECTV thread. Please stay on topic. :backtotop

Thanks,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Mike500 said:


> *Only, if you don't own the equipment or got a free install.*
> 
> If you own the equipment and do your own install, there is NO commitment.


Also tru with DIRECTV.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> Lets not this turn into a Dish/DIRECTV thread. Please stay on topic.


Given that the topic is "DirecTV Scam," I fear I don't have a lot to contribute.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

Tom Robertson said:


> Also tru with DIRECTV.


Don't think so. I tried to do an install for a friend with a used receiver. He needed a new card and was told that he'd be committed for a year.

I used to love DirecTV. You could take your old card and put it into a new receiver with NO commitment; NO costs. Just get the receiver for almost nothing at Best Buy or Walmart.

It's like the credit card industry model. They can change the contract just by sending you a notice.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> The Protection Plan itself does not extend your commitment time. Your commitment time is extended when you get a new receiver or replacement (depending on certain criteria as to why it is a replacement--go ahead and yell at me VOS ) or in some cases if you change your programming package (e.g. you are offered to upgrade to a new plan, but they want to give you free premium services as well, so they might ask you to extend your commitment).
> 
> - Merg


Not me.... :lol: 
See my post #6.
Clearly you can get multiple "answers" when calling the CSRs.
Before I started leasing a receiver, I was told DirecTV would replace it for free if it failed. At this time there wasn't the protection plan. Service calls are "free" for 90 days from installation and/or the last service call.
Now if they extended the commitment each time a receiver fails and needs to be replace, there could be an endless programing commitment. We shouldn't be exposed to this. If their "leased" receiver can't work for two years, then we should be required to pay for a protection plan to cover "their" receiver.
Any additions to the account can/will reset commitments.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Is possible the CSR was misunderstanding that the install as "a self install" and a previously "owned" (not leased) unit? 

There are some deals for new accounts that trigger a 1 year commitment right now, too.

New cards are often required, tho. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

The Merg said:


> I don't recall a definitive answer from DirecTV on that issue.


Here is the definitive answer I've received:

DirecTV's policy is that replacing defective leased recievers does not trigger a new commitment (even though a form letter I received says otherwise). Upon additional messages back and forth, I learned that there is not supposed to be a commitment; the system automatically creates a new commitment; the CSRs have no control over whether the commitment is triggered or not; when the commitment is triggered there are very few people who have the access to correcting the wrong date in the system, so if you complain they will just put a note on your account indicating the correct commitment date; if you cancel within the commitment period, you can get the cancellation fee waived if you complain; and there are many "gray areas when it concerns commitments, because the information is not all too clear."


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

That's like the government, using an administrative procedure, seizing your property, and you having to get it back in with an administrative law judge.

Legally, administrative courts are not subject to due process under the Constititution.

It is up to you to sue.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

cariera said:


> Since you never own a leased receiver, wouldn't it always be under warranty?


Absolutely not. Anything that is leased has a manufacturers warranty. Sometimes the period of a lease is more than the mfg warranty and in that case yes it would always be under warranty. In this case the DVR has a 30 day warranty. After which you have two choices. Protection Plan or roll with the odds. If it fails after 30 days and you do not have a Protection Plan, you will get the receiever replaced for free but it will trigger a new commitment. If you have the Protection Plan, not only is the receiver free, it should not trigger a new commitment. I say should not because I have seen posts where the commitment was extended. Now I have had two recivevers replaced under the PP and in both cases neither has triggered a renewal of my commitment.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

That's where the Cable Model is better.

As I recall, the warranty is included in the rental price. And, there is NO commitment, unless there was a promo that the subscriber signed up for.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

Mike500 said:


> That's where the Cable Model is better.
> 
> As I recall, the warranty is included in the rental price. And, there is NO commitment, unless there was a promo that the subscriber signed up for.


Technically, if you prefer cable in your home, there's a "type" of commitment since there are no other cable companies to compete for your business. As long as you have cable, you'll be with the same cable company.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

durl said:


> Technically, if you prefer cable in your home, there's a "type" of commitment since there are no other cable companies to compete for your business. As long as you have cable, you'll be with the same cable company.


Thats not always true. In our area we have Time Warner, Wide Open West and AT&T Uverse is starting up. I could go werever I want with no commitment. I had Time Warner and they stunk. I didn't try WOW cable. I went right for Directv because of all the good things people told me about it. The only good things about cable is no up front cost for HDDVR's, they replace your box for free(No shipping charge) if it goes out and of course no commitment. Now the crappy service and high prices make cable a terrible buy.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

ehilbert1 said:


> Thats not always true. In our area we have Time Warner, Wide Open West and AT&T Uverse is starting up. I could go werever I want with no commitment. I had Time Warner and they stunk. I didn't try WOW cable. I went right for Directv because of all the good things people told me about it. The only good things about cable is no up front cost for HDDVR's, they replace your box for free(No shipping charge) if it goes out and of course no commitment. Now the crappy service and high prices make cable a terrible buy.


Ah...your state must allow cable company competition. I didn't think about that. That subject is getting attention in our legislature right now but the current status is a Comcast only for cable.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

durl said:


> Ah...your state must allow cable company competition. I didn't think about that. That subject is getting attention in our legislature right now but the current status is a Comcast only for cable.


That stinks. It used to be Time Warner or nothing here for cable. When Wide Open West came into town Time Warner really got scared and lowered their prices. After a while that ended and they both started nickle and diming everyone to death. As soon as I bought my house I had Directv installed. I wish I would have sooner. I hear really bad stories about Comcast. I wonder if their as bad as Time Warner?


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

That's the best thing about competition.

*It's good that the purchase of DirecTV by Echostar never happened.*


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Mike500 said:


> That's the best thing about competition.


Couldn't agree more!



Mike500 said:


> *It's good that the purchase of DirecTV by Echostar never happened.*


I also agree with that, though I suspect for different reasons than you.


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

George_T said:


> I got my SD DVR for free in March '06 w/a two year commitment. It ended up being faulty, and thus it was swapped out to me by D* in July, '06. I later found out that since the DVR was swapped, they changed the date of my two year commitment to July, '08.
> 
> Called D* regarding this issue, and explained to them that I wasn't going to leave, but I did think that it was unfair to restart my 2-yr commitment to July when the DVR was faulty.


I guess I'm confused. If you're not leaving, what difference does it make what your commitment is?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

FLWingNut said:


> I guess I'm confused. If you're not leaving, what difference does it make what your commitment is?


For one thing, you will probably get a much better deal for upgrading to new hardware if you don't have a commitment in place. Those with a commitment now could expect to pay $199 to upgrade to a HD-DVR, while those without the commitment might be able to get one for a lot less or free.

When my commitment was up, I was able to get an R15 for free although before my commitment was up and after I recommitted, the cost to get an R15 is $99.

- Merg


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

The Merg said:


> For one thing, you will probably get a much better deal for upgrading to new hardware if you don't have a commitment in place. Those with a commitment now could expect to pay $199 to upgrade to a HD-DVR, while those without the commitment might be able to get one for a lot less or free.


I see the logic behind that, but it doesn't fit with my experience. Not to say that policies haven't or won't change.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

FLWingNut said:


> I guess I'm confused. If you're not leaving, what difference does it make what your commitment is?


I know! I don't get why it is such a big issue.

Take it up when you leave IF it is early.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

bwaldron said:


> I see the logic behind that, but it doesn't fit with my experience. Not to say that policies haven't or won't change.


It makes perfect sense from D*'s vantage. If you are locked into a commitment, you will be much more likely to pay more for an upgrade to get the service you want as opposed to paying a ETF and starting over somewhere else. If your commitment is up, D* has a vested interest in keeping you on as a customer and is willing to sacrifice profit now for profit later.

- Merg


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

The Merg said:


> For one thing, you will probably get a much better deal for upgrading to new hardware if you don't have a commitment in place. Those with a commitment now could expect to pay $199 to upgrade to a HD-DVR, while those without the commitment might be able to get one for a lot less or free.
> 
> When my commitment was up, I was able to get an R15 for free although before my commitment was up and after I recommitted, the cost to get an R15 is $99.
> 
> - Merg


Exactly it's called negotiating from the power position.:righton: :contract:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Mike500 said:


> That's where the Cable Model is better.
> 
> As I recall, the warranty is included in the rental price. And, there is NO commitment, unless there was a promo that the subscriber signed up for.


The cable model can be better, but not always. If they build the replacement plan into each set top box whereas DIRECTV has a set price for replacement plan, with enough set top boxes the DIRECTV model will usually prevail.

Here, the breakeven point is 1 DVR for 20 months. Anything more or longer it is much less expensive to go with DIRECTV. (And better DVRs in many respects.)

And better, more HD content too. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I am a bit worried about the extension of my contract if I need a replacement receiver, is that really true? Can really be at the 18 month point and need a replacement and end up locked in for 2 more years?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

russdog said:


> I'm confused about whether getting a replacement unit for a failed unit restarts your commitment. Four possibilities:
> 
> 1. If you DO have the protection plan, and you OWN the equipment, does your commitment extend/restart?
> 
> ...





cariera said:


> Since you never own a leased receiver, wouldn't it always be under warranty?





jimb726 said:


> Absolutely not. Anything that is leased has a manufacturers warranty. Sometimes the period of a lease is more than the mfg warranty and in that case yes it would always be under warranty. In this case the DVR has a 30 day warranty. After which you have two choices. Protection Plan or roll with the odds. If it fails after 30 days and you do not have a Protection Plan, you will get the receiever replaced for free but it will trigger a new commitment. If you have the Protection Plan, not only is the receiver free, it should not trigger a new commitment. I say should not because I have seen posts where the commitment was extended. Now I have had two recivevers replaced under the PP and in both cases neither has triggered a renewal of my commitment.


Cariera, please note that Jimb726 is incorrect on a few points.
Here are all possible scenarios (and the _correct_ results):
*Owned Receivers*
_No Protection Plan Coverage_
- If under warranty (90 days, except 1 year for HD-DVR), replace w/ owned for $0, no commitment, restarts same warranty on replacement receiver.
- If past warranty, replace w/ owned at full upfront cost, no commitment, 90-day warranty (1-year for HD-DVR)
- If past warranty, replace w/ leased for $19.95 S&H w/ commitment (18-month for basic, 24-month for DVR, HD, HD-DVR)
- If past warranty, replace w/ leased for $0 S&H w/ commitment (same as above) if you agree to sign up for the Protection Plan

_Already have the Protection Plan Coverage_
- Replaced w/ owned receiver for $0 w/ no commitment extension

*Leased Receivers*
_No Protection Plan Coverage_
- Within 90 days of activation, replaced for $0, no commitment
- After 90 days, replaced for $19.95 S&H, no commitment
- After 90 days, replaced for $0 S&H if you agree to sign up for the Protection Plan (1-year commitment)

_Already have the Protection Plan Coverage_
- Replaced w/ leased receiver for $0 w/ no commitment extension

So, yes, leased receivers do have a lifetime warranty in the sense that you are not charged for the replacement receiver, and your contract is not extended. But, after the first 90 days, you would be billed for the shipping cost, unless you subscribe to the Protection Plan.

Unfortunately, there have been cases where people report that commitments have been incorrectly added or extended contrary to the list above. In those cases, D* can research and, if needed, remove contracts from an account where an error is discovered.


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## bridge (Feb 10, 2008)

ehilbert1 said:


> That stinks. It used to be Time Warner or nothing here for cable. When Wide Open West came into town Time Warner really got scared and lowered their prices. After a while that ended and they both started nickle and diming everyone to death. As soon as I bought my house I had Directv installed. I wish I would have sooner. I hear really bad stories about Comcast. I wonder if their as bad as Time Warner?


Yes, they are. We had Time-Warner for years. They really sucked. Comcast took over the Houston market from them not to long ago and things went from bad to intolerable. My bill has steadily increased for the last six months. I ordered Directv service this last weekend but, reading through this forum is making me rethink my decision. According to one of the CSR I have 30days to assess the service and other CSRs tell me no, once you install your stuck for 2 years. Why would I buy a car without being allowed to test driving it? It frightens me to see all the posts here where Americans are OK with substandard service and questionable business practices. There is a reason there is so much confusion about policies, DTV wants it that way. No competition, no ethics. I work in clinical research and we have ethics and Informed Consent requirements. I wish corporate America had that. Unfortunately, they seem totally OK with taking advantage of Americans and without ethical alternatives (or legislators) Americans seem OK with allowing it to happen.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Kheldar said:


> Cariera, please note that Jimb726 is incorrect on a few points.
> Here are all possible scenarios (and the _correct_ results):
> *Owned Receivers*
> _No Protection Plan Coverage_
> ...


Excellent job but you did leave out one scenario: Owned less than 90 days. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Tom Robertson said:


> Excellent job but you did leave out one scenario: Owned less than 90 days.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Oops. Mea culpa.
I have edited my previous post with the missing information. Thanks for the catch.


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## durl (Mar 27, 2003)

bridge said:


> It frightens me to see all the posts here where Americans are OK with substandard service and questionable business practices. There is a reason there is so much confusion about policies, DTV wants it that way. No competition, no ethics. I work in clinical research and we have ethics and Informed Consent requirements. I wish corporate America had that. Unfortunately, they seem totally OK with taking advantage of Americans and without ethical alternatives (or legislators) Americans seem OK with allowing it to happen.


There are a LOT of happy Directv customers out there. A recent thread documents some experiences:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=119243

While no one can claim that Directv is the perfect provider, many believe them to be the best option available and are loyal customers. You should listen to complaints (keeping in mind their validity or lack thereof), but also look at the positive experiences of customers in order to make a truly informed decision.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

durl -- I imagine that every DirecTV customer thinks that DirecTV is their best available option (or at least thought so when they first signed up for DirecTV).


For me, personally, I still think DirecTV is a good option. But I believe it has declined since I first signed up, and I am not sure if it is my best option (though it may still be).


My major complaint with DirecTV is the quality of its customer service (which creates issues like the one which instigated this thread). Unfortunately, I am not sure that DirecTV recognizes the severity of their problems. I think they are blinded by the fact that independent rating services say they don't suck as badly as some other cable companies, and they ignore that they are comparing themselves to the worst of the worst industry for customer service. 

And where DirecTV does see some issues, I get the sense (mostly from communication directly with DirecTV and from comments from DirecTV insiders here) that they think their problems can be solved with better training.

So I complain loudly (both directly to DirecTV and on this forum, which the moderators indicate is read by DirecTV powers), in hopes that DirecTV will recognize that they have a serious customer support problem, which will require more than training to fix. It will require serious review and revision of DirecTVs policies, processes, and systems.

I hope that DirecTV fixes their problems. Then DirecTV would clearly be the best option for me again. But I have a feeling it will get a lot worse before it gets better.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> Cariera, please note that Jimb726 is incorrect on a few points.
> Here are all possible scenarios (and the _correct_ results):
> *Owned Receivers*
> _No Protection Plan Coverage_
> ...


Great breakdown, but I believe two things are inaccurate...


Owned receiver and already have the PP--it is not replaced with a owned receiver. The receiver that will replace it will be a leased receiver, but as stated there is no additional commitment and there is no cost to the user. Although I have seen this debated in other threads and agree that an owned receiver should be replaced with another owned receiver if you have the PP.
With the leased receiver, after the 90 day warranty the commitment is extended if there is no protection plan.

What I decided to do was send an e-mail to DirecTV.com customer support and see what they'll say on the issue. Kheldar, I actually sent them your little breakdown and asked them to confirm or correct what was on the list. I figured it would be interesting to see their response.

I'll post their response when I get it.

- Merg


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Merg -- what's the over/under on whether you actually get a response?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

The Merg said:


> Great breakdown, but I believe two things are inaccurate...
> 
> 
> Owned receiver and already have the PP--it is not replaced with a owned receiver. The receiver that will replace it will be a leased receiver, but as stated there is no additional commitment and there is no cost to the user. Although I have seen this debated in other threads and agree that an owned receiver should be replaced with another owned receiver if you have the PP.
> ...


*Point 1*: Wrong. Owned receivers are replaced with owned receivers if the customer has the Protection Plan. Can you imagine taking your broken-down owned car back to the dealer during the warranty period and getting a leased replacement back in exchange? That would nearly be criminal. No, if you own the unit the Protection Plan replaces it with owned equipment. While there have been cases of the replacement getting tagged as a leased receiver, this is an avoidable error if the agent follows the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, and a correctable error if the agent doesn't.

*Point 2*: Wrong again. While this is an area where, if the agents do not follow the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, a contract extension may incorrectly occur, it is not D*'s policy to extend commitments when a defective leased receiver is replaced with a leased receiver.

Either way, if you believe the ownership of your receiver is incorrect, call customer service. They do have information on how to research and resolve this.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> it is not D*'s policy to extend commitments when a defective leased receiver is replaced with a leased receiver.


Are you sure that's their policy? (Does DirecTV even know what their policy is?)

How do you explain the form letter (79DVRERP) I received when I replaced a defective leased receiver:

The letter reads:

_*Thank you for choosing DIRECTV and accepting our discounted offer of a DIRECTV DVR to replace your defective DVR receiver. Enclosed with your replacement DVR receiver, you will find instructions on how to setup and activate your new receiver. Please note that the receiver may be reconditioned and the brand and model is at the discretion of DIRECTV.*_

The letter then explains how to return the defective receiver, an order confirmation, and a list of terms for leased receivers. The third bullet point under terms reads:

_*Offer requires you to purchase 12 consecutive months (24 consecutive months for advanced equipment) of any TOTAL CHOICE ($44.99/mo. or above) or DIRECTV PARA TODOS programming package ($29.99/mo or above).*_


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Upstream said:


> Are you sure that's their policy? (Does DirecTV even know what their policy is?)
> 
> How do you explain the form letter (79DVRERP) I received when I replaced a defective leased receiver:


I already explained it. Please re-read Point 2 of my previous post in its entirety (blue is for emphasis):



Kheldar said:


> *Point 2*: Wrong again. While this is an area where, if the agents do not follow the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, a contract extension may incorrectly occur, it is not D*'s policy to extend commitments when a defective leased receiver is replaced with a leased receiver.


Then read the last paragraph:



Kheldar said:


> Either way, if you believe the ownership of your receiver is incorrect, call customer service. They do have information on how to research and resolve this.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> *Point 1*: Wrong. Owned receivers are replaced with owned receivers if the customer has the Protection Plan. Can you imagine taking your broken-down owned car back to the dealer during the warranty period and getting a leased replacement back in exchange? That would nearly be criminal. No, if you own the unit the Protection Plan replaces it with owned equipment. While there have been cases of the replacement getting tagged as a leased receiver, this is an avoidable error if the agent follows the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, and a correctable error if the agent doesn't.
> 
> *Point 2*: Wrong again. While this is an area where, if the agents do not follow the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, a contract extension may incorrectly occur, it is not D*'s policy to extend commitments when a defective leased receiver is replaced with a leased receiver.
> 
> Either way, if you believe the ownership of your receiver is incorrect, call customer service. They do have information on how to research and resolve this.


I think your point 2 is incorrect. The letter that my sister got with her replacement receiver clearly stated that a new programming commitment would be enforced upon activation of the replacement unit. That was in writing from DirecTv, not from a CSR. I have Protection Plan and both times I had gotten replacements, my commitment had not reset.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> I already explained it. Please re-read Point 2 of my previous post in its entirety (blue is for emphasis):
> 
> Then read the last paragraph:


It would seem that something in writing from DirecTv stating that there is a commitment would override your theory that it isnt their policy. If it is in their letter, exactly whose policy is it? I am not questioning ownership, that isnt what the discussion is about, I am questioning the 24 month commitment. If they tell me that be activating this replacement I will be agreeing to a 24 month commitment, how is that to be misinterpreted?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

jimb726 said:


> I think your point 2 is incorrect. The letter that my sister got with her replacement receiver clearly stated that a new programming commitment would be enforced upon activation of the replacement unit. That was in writing from DirecTv, not from a CSR. I have Protection Plan and both times I had gotten replacements, my commitment had not reset.


Again, please read my previous post. If the CSR that activates the replacement receiver doesn't _follow the exact prescribed script in the exact order of the steps_, then the system automatically adds the commitment, and the letter is automatically sent out.

If you don't believe me (I have worked for this company longer than most people on this board have been subscribers), then we'll wait for the response that _The Merg_ gets from the official channels.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Kheldar -- Why does DirecTV even have a form letter saying there is a commitment when a defective leased receiver is replaced if that is not their policy?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Upstream said:


> Kheldar -- Why does DirecTV even have a form letter saying there is a commitment when a defective leased receiver is replaced if that is not their policy?


One more time.
Forgive me for repeating myself, but from my previous post:


Kheldar said:


> *Point 2*: Wrong again. While this is an area where, if the agents do not follow the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, a contract extension may incorrectly occur, it is not D*'s policy to extend commitments when a defective leased receiver is replaced with a leased receiver.


I keep emphasizing that point because that is exactly where the problem begins. Without going into the exact scripting or exact steps, I will say this: the steps to correctly activate a receiver must be followed in an exact, numbered order.

The two most important steps (which I won't discuss here due to proprietary information), if done in the correct order, tells the computer that it is replacing a defective leased receiver with another leased receiver, and the system does not renew a commitment.

If the agent does those two steps in reverse order (or neglects to complete one of them), the computer thinks that you are activating an additional receiver and, coincidently, removing a completely unrelated leased receiver. In this case, the computer starts a new commitment and mails out the letter referred to in the previous post.

Either way, if you believe the commitment on your account is incorrect, call customer service. They do have information on how to research and resolve this.

----

Also, to directly answer your question: are you sure that your original DVR was leased? The letter you quote (at least in the part that you quoted) doesn't specify that you owned or leased the original defective DVR. I believe the letter you quote from is sent out if D* is replacing a defective _owned_ receiver with a replacement _leased_ receiver, in which case the new commitment does apply, as per my previous post. On the date that you activated the replacement receiver, do you show on your bill a prorated subtraction of "Additional Receiver" with a prorated addition of "Leased Additional Receiver"?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Great breakdown, but I believe two things are inaccurate...
> 
> Owned receiver and already have the PP--it is not replaced with a owned receiver. The receiver that will replace it will be a leased receiver, but as stated there is no additional commitment and there is no cost to the user. Although I have seen this debated in other threads and agree that an owned receiver should be replaced with another owned receiver if you have the PP.
> With the leased receiver, after the 90 day warranty the commitment is extended if there is no protection plan.
> ...


Merg, you already know how I love to stir the pot. :lol: 
I had an owned receiver replaced. I don't have the protection plan. Calling the "normal" CSR to get it activated was "I can do that for you" and it would have been a leased receiver. I asked to transfered to the access card group. I still own my receiver.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Kheldar -- Why does DirecTV even have a form letter saying there is a commitment when a defective leased receiver is replaced if that is not their policy?


I think Kheldar's point is you received the wrong letter for your situation, due to CSR error.

That letter may be accurate for other situations.

So the letter is not counter to policy...the policy cited is simply not the policy that should have been cited for your situation


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

mikewolf13 said:


> I think Kheldar's point is you received the wrong letter for your situation, due to CSR error.
> 
> That letter may be accurate for other situations.
> 
> So the letter is not counter to policy...the policy cited is simply not the policy that should have been cited for your situation


Thank you for the clarification. Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say.

That letter is a valid letter for another situation (defective owned receiver being replaced with leased receiver, no protection plan coverage), but not the situation that *Upstream* was experiencing (unless he owned his defective receiver and didn't realize it).

Also, *Upstream*, how old was the defective receiver? And how long have you had D*?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Okay. I got a response within an hour of sending the e-mail to customer service. They pretty much answer everything except about the condition of replacing a defective receiver. I've e-mailed them back asking for clarification on that. Here is the response so far:



> Thanks for writing and for asking about our programming commitment requirements. I see that you have been a DIRECTV customer since xx/xx/xx. I want you to know that we appreciate your business. I'd be happy to assist you.
> 
> Because we significantly discount the price of equipment and installations, we ask you to keep your programming for at least 18 months for standard receivers / 2 years for DVR, HD, and HD-DVR receivers.
> 
> ...


The ERP is when you take advantage of a replacement receiver on-line or when they call you up and ask you if you want to upgrade.

- Merg


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Upstream said:


> Merg -- what's the over/under on whether you actually get a response?


Darn I wish I took that bet!!! 



Kheldar said:


> *Point 1*: Wrong. Owned receivers are replaced with owned receivers if the customer has the Protection Plan. Can you imagine taking your broken-down owned car back to the dealer during the warranty period and getting a leased replacement back in exchange? That would nearly be criminal. No, if you own the unit the Protection Plan replaces it with owned equipment. While there have been cases of the replacement getting tagged as a leased receiver, this is an avoidable error if the agent follows the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, and a correctable error if the agent doesn't.


As I stated, I would believe that to be the case. I guess the situations I heard otherwise were when the CSR has not followed the correct procedures.



Kheldar said:


> [*Point 2*: Wrong again. While this is an area where, if the agents do not follow the instructions _exactly in the correct order_, a contract extension may incorrectly occur, it is not D*'s policy to extend commitments when a defective leased receiver is replaced with a leased receiver.
> 
> Either way, if you believe the ownership of your receiver is incorrect, call customer service. They do have information on how to research and resolve this.


I would also hope this to be true as well and would not mind being wrong twice.



veryoldschool said:


> Merg, you already know how I love to stir the pot. :lol:
> I had an owned receiver replaced. I don't have the protection plan. Calling the "normal" CSR to get it activated was "I can do that for you" and it would have been a leased receiver. I asked to transfered to the access card group. I still own my receiver.


I'm assuming that you owned a receiver (such as an R10 or HR10) and it died and called DirecTV to replace it. They sent you a new one (an R15 or HR20/21) and designated it as owned as opposed to leased?

- Merg


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

The Merg said:


> The ERP is when you take advantage of a replacement receiver on-line or when they call you up and ask you if you want to upgrade.
> 
> - Merg


The ERP (*E*quipment *R*eplacement *P*rogram) is when D* replaces a defective reciever. It has nothing to do with upgrades (unless you consider replacing a really old defective receiver with a newer model as an upgrade).


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> The ERP (*E*quipment *R*eplacement *P*rogram) is when D* replaces a defective reciever. It has nothing to do with upgrades (unless you consider replacing a really old defective receiver with a newer model as an upgrade).


I'll send another e-mail about that. I got the ERP definition when talking to a CSR the other week on the phone about a different matter. CSR roulette is wonderful, isn't it?

- Merg


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> I'm assuming that you owned a receiver (such as an R10 or HR10) and it died and called DirecTV to replace it. They sent you a new one (an R15 or HR20/21) and designated it as owned as opposed to leased?
> 
> - Merg


I owned an H20 and had it replaced with an H20 [owned]


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> I think Kheldar's point is you received the wrong letter for your situation, due to CSR error.
> 
> That letter may be accurate for other situations.
> 
> So the letter is not counter to policy...the policy cited is simply not the policy that should have been cited for your situation


Except the form letter I received explicitly said it was for replacing a defective leased receiver with a leased receiver. (In fact, the code number for the letter includes "ERP", which I just learned in this thread is the program for replacing defective receivers.)

So why would DirecTV create a form letter which explicitly says you are replacing a defective leased receiver with a leased receiver and you have a new 2 year commitment, unless that is their policy? And what is the other situation in which someone would receive this letter?

I don't doubt that Kheldar is correct in that DirecTV has a policy that says there is no commitment on replacing a defective leased receiver. I just believe that DirecTV also has a conflicting policy which says there is a commitment. And it is two conflicting policies which create all these issues for the customers.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Upstream said:


> Except the form letter I received explicitly said it was for replacing a defective leased receiver with a leased receiver. (In fact, the code number for the letter includes "ERP", which I just learned in this thread is the program for replacing defective receivers.)
> 
> So why would DirecTV create a form letter which explicitly says you are replacing a defective leased receiver with a leased receiver and you have a new 2 year commitment, unless that is their policy? And what is the other situation in which someone would receive this letter?
> 
> I don't doubt that Kheldar is correct in that DirecTV has a policy that says there is no commitment on replacing a defective leased receiver. I just believe that DirecTV also has a conflicting policy which says there is a commitment. And it is two conflicting policies which create all these issues for the customers.


The portion of the letter you quoted _never_ said that the defective receiver was leased. Please post the entire letter. Also, please answer my previous questions: 
* How old was the defective receiver? 
* And how long have you had D*?

The term ERP applies regardless of the owership status of the defective or replacement receiver. It is just that, an Equipment Replacement Program.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Well, I got a response, but it didn't answer the follow-up question and it even contradicted the first response. I've sent another e-mail.

Here is the most recent response:


> Thanks for taking the time to write us about your DIRECTV account. I checked on your account information and was able to verify that you are one of our valued customers since 2000. We certainly appreciate your business and continued patronage. I understand that you'd like to know if your commitment will extend once DIRECTV provides a replacement receiver. Let me make sure that you have all the information you need.
> 
> When I personally checked your account information, I was able to verify that you own all your receivers. Once you receive a replacement receiver, your programming commitment will also be extended. This policy is whether you have the DIRECTV PROTECTION PLAN or not. Just a friendly reminder, DIRECTV PROTECTION PLAN covers the following:
> 
> ...


Here she says that having the PP does not protect you from extending your commitment and that replacing any receiver extends your commitment. An interesting note is how she says that I own all my receivers. I used the web to order an R15 this past June to replace a DirecTivo (35 hr version). I would have figured it would have been a lease as I was not replacing a defective receiver, just performing a normal upgrade.

- Merg


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> The portion of the letter you quoted _never_ said that the defective receiver was leased. Please post the entire letter. Also, please answer my previous questions:
> * How old was the defective receiver?
> * And how long have you had D*?
> 
> The term ERP applies regardless of the owership status of the defective or replacement receiver. It is just that, an Equipment Replacement Program.


I'm not going to transcribe the entire letter, it has over a dozen paragraphs. As I indicated, it provided instructions on how to return my defective leased receiver. (And since owned receivers don't have to be returned, there would be no need for the return instructions if the letter never applied to leased receivers.)

In answer to your other questions, at the time I had been a DirecTV customer for over 8 years, and the defective receiver was about a week old. When I received the letter, I called DirecTV and complained about the commitment since the defective receiver was under warranty. I was told the commitment was standard for replacing leased receivers unless I had the Protection Plan. When I complained that was a violation of the warranty, I was told DirecTV would waive the commitment. And thus started 18 months of customer service hell.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Upstream said:


> I'm not going to transcribe the entire letter, it has over a dozen paragraphs. As I indicated, it provided instructions on how to return my defective leased receiver. (And since owned receivers don't have to be returned, there would be no need for the return instructions if the letter never applied to leased receivers.)


The portion of the letter you quoted never referred to your defective receiver as leased. It referred to the _replacement_ receiver as leased. Unless another portion of the letter states your defective receiver is leased, I believe you owned it.

Referring to the blue-highlighted portion above: if you are replacing an owned receiver with a leased receiver, _you do have to return the defective owned receiver_, unless the owned receiver is so old that D* specifically tells you that you do not need to return it (typically non-multisat receivers). That is the point of the ERP program: you get a replacement in exchange for giving D* your defective receiver.

So yes, the letter does apply to failed owned receivers that are getting replaced with leased receivers.



Upstream said:


> In answer to your other questions, at the time I had been a DirecTV customer for over 8 years, and the defective receiver was about a week old. When I received the letter, I called DirecTV and complained about the commitment since the defective receiver was under warranty. I was told the commitment was standard for replacing leased receivers unless I had the Protection Plan. When I complained that was a violation of the warranty, I was told DirecTV would waive the commitment. And thus started 18 months of customer service hell.


The defective receiver that was only 1 week old: did you get that as a replacement from D* for another defective receiver the week before, or did you purchase it elsewhere?


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> The portion of the letter you quoted never referred to your defective receiver as leased. It referred to the _replacement_ receiver as leased. Unless another portion of the letter states your defective receiver is leased, I believe you owned it.
> 
> Referring to the blue-highlighted portion above: if you are replacing an owned receiver with a leased receiver, _you do have to return the defective owned receiver_, unless the owned receiver is so old that D* specifically tells you that you do not need to return it (typically non-multisat receivers). That is the point of the ERP program: you get a replacement in exchange for giving D* your defective receiver.
> 
> ...


The defective receiver was leased. It was a new R15 installed by DirecTV as a leased receiver about a week earlier. DirecTV knew that the defectiver receiver was leased; they had just installed it, and the CSR told me I needed to return it because it was leased.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

Upstream said:


> The defective receiver was leased. It was a new R15 installed by DirecTV as a leased receiver about a week earlier. DirecTV knew that the defectiver receiver was leased; they had just installed it, and the CSR told me I needed to return it because it was leased.


Then, since the original R15 was starting a new commitment only 1 week before, the replacement (still incorrectly) only extended your contract by 1 week, right?


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Correct. But extending the commitment, even by one week, for a receiver under warranty is wrong.


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

The Merg said:


> The ERP is when you take advantage of a replacement receiver on-line *or when they call you up and ask you if you want to upgrade*.
> - Merg


If you're minding your own business, and they call you up and offer you new HD stuff because of MLB-EI, is that an ERP? Or is that a fresh 2-year committment?


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## russdog (Aug 1, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Well, I got a response, but it didn't answer the follow-up question and it even contradicted the first response. I've sent another e-mail.
> 
> Here is the most recent response:
> 
> ...


OK, please forgive me, I just want to verify that I am not losing my mind...

To review:
 In once case, they wrote you back and said that the PP protected the customer from a new commitment, and this is true for both leased and owned equipment.
 In another case, they wrote you back and said that the PP does NOT protect the customer from a new commitment if owned equipment is being replaced, but they did not address the issue re: leased equipment either way.
Do I understand this correctly?


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

^^^
DirecTV has multiple policies. It makes CSR Roulette a lot more fun.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

russdog said:


> OK, please forgive me, I just want to verify that I am not losing my mind...
> 
> To review:
> In once case, they wrote you back and said that the PP protected the customer from a new commitment, and this is true for both leased and owned equipment.
> ...


You are correct as to what happened. I have since received another e-mail from DirecTV correcting the second case. This is what the most recent e-mail to me stated:



> Thanks for writing us back. I apologize for the confusion that the previous e-mail has caused you. Let me clarify this for you. Replacing a receiver through Protection Plan will not extend your programming commitment. When I pulled up your account, I found that you are indeed subscribed to the Protection Plan. Hence, commitment extension is not applicable.
> 
> On the other hand, if you are not subscribed to the protection plan and you had your owned receiver replaced by a leased receiver from us, you will have you commitment renewed.
> 
> ...


As you can see they did correct themselves and state the Protection Plan will keep you from having your commitment extended. I am still waiting on a response as to what happens to your commitment when you have a defective leased receiver replaced as that is the only situation they haven't explained yet.

- Merg


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## dtrell (Dec 28, 2007)

its been explained 100 times in this thread merg. if you own a LEASED reciver and you have it replaced by DTV THROUGH THE MAIL for 19.95 shipping, it IS NOT and SHOULD NOT extend your committment. As kheldar said, it can end up that way if the CSR DOESNT ACTIVATE IT RIGHT. the bottom line seems to be MAKE SURE YOUR ACCOUNT IS NOTATED THE DAY YOU ACTIVATE THE REPLACEMENT to make sure that even if the computer extends your committment your account is notated that it should not be. this was already explained to you merg in the one email you posted, where the CSR stated that if it is replaced under ERP, which is their mail back program for leased receivers where you pay 19.95 to replace a leased receiver (and purportedly receive a refurb unit in return), then there is NO COMMITTMENT EXTENSION.

i think the question has been resolved by both current CSRs and posted emails a few times over already in this thread.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

I'm waiting on one more little clarification and then I will post the end-all answer to the question that has plagued us for decades (okay, for just a few days): "What extends your commitment at DirecTV?"

I am currently e-mailing with a specialist (the escalated department) at DirecTV customer support. In my dealings the the specialists at DirecTV, I have yet to been led astray, so I believe the information I've been getting is spot-on.

Stay tuned...

- Merg


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I can't help myself. Guys - here is a little cheese ( ). It goes good with whine.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Okay, I got the answer. What I've decided to do is create a new thread just for the answer of the commitment question.

Here is the new thread: DirecTV Commitment Extensions

- Merg


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## jimmyj (Feb 14, 2008)

dtv is the biggest scam of altime that is why i wont install it ay more


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