# Losing Video on HD Dallas Locals



## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

On my 622, several times I have lost the video on Dallas HD LIL stations. Today, it was NBC and CBS. Could still hear audio. Dallas LIL SD stations all fine. TP 31 on 110 shows sig of 82. No clouds and no rain. Have had to do power reboot each time to restore the lost video. Using HDMI to Sammy DLP, but all other HD is fine. Took out the Separator and am now using two coaxes from DishPro Plus to Tuners 1 and 2. Maybe that will make a difference. Anybody else have this problem?


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I had some pretty bad looking screens on and off last night, but I have never (since we have had HD locals--about a week now) had the 622 lock up or not recover to the point of needing a boot or reset.


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

Ditto. While trying to record timers during the Presidential address fiasco, I changed channels several times where there was a black screen but normal sound. I tried the pause or skip back trick but no luck. I went to SD channels and pic was fine. Eventually, I just used OTA to record them.

It may be some recording artifact as this was one of the few times that I was using the 622 to view live TV, perhaps it does this a lot but the recordings still record fine...

Anyway, I haven't had any problems looking at recordings and having this occur...


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## m00se (Feb 10, 2003)

ChuckA said:


> I had some pretty bad looking screens on and off last night, but I have never (since we have had HD locals--about a week now) had the 622 lock up or not recover to the point of needing a boot or reset.


Have had my 622 since April 8 and operating near flawless until last night when I experienced severe pixilation on the networks. It got bad enough where watching was impossible. No idea how long it lasted as I gave in and turned the set off as it was near bedtime anyway. All seems to be working fine today so far. We've had clear blue and sunny skies so weather was not a factor.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

IF you are seeing any problems with your hd locals or your sd locals for that matter , you should send an email to the dishquality folks.

I've been working with them in fixing the reception problems with the Houston hd locals for the last 3 or 4 days. I report any errors, lip sound synching problems and they respond to me via email and tweak it to fix it.

Right now out of the three locals we get in hd from Dish I have worked with them to fix the frequent green error break up screens on both Abc and Fox .

The Cbs station is the worst. It had video and audio synching problems, not related to the 622 software bugs. I got them to tweak it so that it was a good picture and the sound was synched but then this morning the sound was about 10 seconds behind the picture. I sent them another updated email at 1:00pm today and they responded and thanked me and said it was confirmed as an error. I hope they get it fixed soon. But the point is ,they do appreciate the emails on the audio /video problems since they can't watch every channel at the same time.

[email protected]


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> IF you are seeing any problems with your hd locals or your sd locals for that matter , you should send an email to the dishquality folks.
> 
> But the point is ,they do appreciate the emails on the audio /video problems since they can't watch every channel at the same time.
> 
> [email protected]


Thanks! I just emailed them about the terrible pixelation on Fox as of lately. I've had problems with AI as well as 24.


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> IF you are seeing any problems with your hd locals or your sd locals for that matter , you should send an email to the dishquality folks.
> 
> [email protected]


Just got download of L357. If loss of Video on Dallas HD LIL continues, will e-mail dishquality. Guess I am surprised that will all the problems they have, they had tlme to work with you. Encouraging.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

ClarkBar said:


> Just got download of L357. If loss of Video on Dallas HD LIL continues, will e-mail dishquality. Guess I am surprised that will all the problems they have, they had tlme to work with you. Encouraging.


 They not only worked with me , they fixed the Cbs problem this morning around 11:00 am central time. I emailed them and they responded back with a thankyou and forwarded my email to the head engineer since it was complimentary in nature thanking them for fixing the lip synch on Cbs hd in Houston. The engineers wanted to know how long it took the audio /video department to fix the synch issues. They actually cared. 
Now all three of my hd locals in Houston are good quality. I encourage everyone that has problems on their audio/video problems to write an email to them.

[email protected]


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

It is now happening almost on a daily basis where I lose the video on digital locals here in Albuquerque. It is all of the stations (ABC, NBC and FOX). We still haven't got the CBS digital locals because of some greedy people. The only thing that works is a front panel reset. Now I know what the poster was saying when he said he just does a reset every night before primetime because of this problem.


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

I received an email back from dishquality:

"Dear XXX,

Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in DISH Network. Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously improve the quality of the DISH Network service.

We have been unable to confirm this issue. If you are still seeing it could you kindly fill out the attached information? We are really interested to see if you are noticing this at any particular time or show/s?

At DISH Network we appreciate the time customers take to email their audio/video quality concerns. Thank you for your patience and for being a valued customer.

EchoStar Satellite LLC
Quality Assurance Department
[email protected]"

So if anyone else in the DFW area is having pixelation and skips on HD LiL's please email them. They attached a form asking my TV size, my receiver (622), my connection (HDMI vs. Component), specific times and channels....

I haven't tried the channels since 3.57 was released so maybe its better...


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I got the same exact letter asking for the same information. No, it has gotten worse for me since the latest software update.


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## m00se (Feb 10, 2003)

liferules said:


> I received an email back from dishquality:
> 
> "Dear XXX,
> 
> ...


Just fired off a nice email to dishquality as I had the pixelation on NBC again this evening. I have not hecked yet to see if the software has been updated. Hoping they can get this cleared up soon.


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

Dallas NBC and CBS HD LIL continue to lose video. Takes a power switch reboot to restore NBC and CBS HD. My son in McKinney just got a 622 today. He is in the same Dallas Spotbeam as I am and has not had a loss of NBC or CBS HD LIL video. His signal strength on 110/31 is 88, with D-1000 dish, mine is 82. Not that much difference, considering the inherent inaccuracy of signal meters. We have the same model Sammy DLP. I am 85 miles further North. SYSINFO continues to show that I am having "loss of signal" on both tuners, as many as 7 loss-of-sig on one tuner today. Maybe there is a probelm with the DPro+ LNB that came with the Dish 1000. Have sent summary of problem to "dishquality" and await their input.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I get some pixelation on the Dallas HD locals now and then but I have never lost video or had them lock up my receiver. It sounds like you have an equipment problem somewhere.


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

ChuckA said:


> I get some pixelation on the Dallas HD locals now and then but I have never lost video or had them lock up my receiver. It sounds like you have an equipment problem somewhere.


I was starting to think I had a bad DP+ LNB or bad 622. But, I had perfect HD from my HDPak, Voom, all SD, etc. Now, for the past three days, I have not lost NBC or CBS HD Dallas LIL! FOX and ABC were never a problem, as I recall. I had sent a long message to dishquality, and they never contacted me, perhaps because I fully explained my problem.

I did notice that in the days when I was losing NBC and CBS HD LIL that in the Sysinfo screen where you check Details, I had been getting many "loss of signal" messages. Maybe the Spotbeam was not covering this area near Okla border very well and they tweaked it. Who knows? Or my LNB cured itself. Or Cosmic Rays from Mars were blocking my download signal. I have had Sat TV since the first DirecTV came out. I have learned that getting all the pieces of the puzzle to fit in are sometimes pretty tough to do.

I hold my breath every time I turn on the set that my Timers on HD fired and recorded. My son in McKinney has 622 and same Sammy DLP as I do. So, I can sit on cell phone and compare sigs. He had sigs when I did not. Like you say, it looked like my equipment. Whatever.


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## alan s (Dec 6, 2004)

I had alot of trouble last night on FOX during Idol. Picture breakup and a recurring noise in the audio like a whistle. Noise was present rhythmically every 10 sec or so whether there was picture breakup or not. Changed audio feeds from optical to RCA's and different audio ampifier outputs with no change so it was on the signal coming in or coming from the 622. Anyone else have similar?


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

The only problem I had during AI was having to go into the other room to watch something else on TV2. :lol: The wife watched it and was not complaining so there was no problems with it in our house. She, however was watching it on OTA rather than the Dallas HD Local because we get much better PQ from OTA.


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## alan s (Dec 6, 2004)

Didn't bother with first hr of AI and was recording Lost OTA so I couldn't compare or even try a reboot. I emailed FOX but seriously doubt it was their problem


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

DishQaulity tech called me today and talked at length about loss of LIL HD Video on Dallas CBS and NBC. They volunteered to send me a new 622 without me asking. I am going to do some further testing for them and will report back if there is anything worthwhile to note. 

A Ph.D. Elec. Engineer friend says that it cannot possibly be a bad LNB or Separator that causes the loss of only 2 of 4 HD stations on the 622.


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## erasmu (Nov 17, 2003)

I have had the Dallas Dish HD locals lose video a few times recently. The OTA stations and other HD satellite stations continued to work fine. Later the Dish HD locals were working again. Usually when this occurs, the audio is still working with a black video display.


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

liferules said:


> Thanks! I just emailed them about the terrible pixelation on Fox as of lately. I've had problems with AI as well as 24.


I have issues with pixelation on FOX OTA sometimes....I thought it was the receiver, but my friend with a HD TIVO gets the same thing on his. I think it is the main signal, not from DISH.


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## Skyburn (Nov 30, 2004)

erasmu said:


> I have had the Dallas Dish HD locals lose video a few times recently. The OTA stations and other HD satellite stations continued to work fine. Later the Dish HD locals were working again. Usually when this occurs, the audio is still working with a black video display.


I have this exact same problem with Denver HD Locals (all 4 stations). Black screen, full audio. Only thing that fixes it is either a front-panel restart or time -- it seems if you wait long enough, the video will just come back. Rather annoying.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

Skyburn said:


> I have this exact same problem with Denver HD Locals (all 4 stations). Black screen, full audio. Only thing that fixes it is either a front-panel restart or time -- it seems if you wait long enough, the video will just come back. Rather annoying.


I noticed the very same thing here in Albuquerque on Friday evening. All 3 stations (yes, we'll never have CBS) were black with audio. I left it alone at that time and checked the next day and they were back.


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## bobr (Mar 23, 2002)

Fox has been terible since the LocalHD whent live.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I've had the same problem on the Houston Cbs station. I will tune it in either by puching the number in or by using the guide and I get the audio and a black screen. Notice this is the same channel that is in 1080i but is being down converted to 720p and it looks jerky like it is missing frames. The funny thing is I can tune it in on the other pip or tuner . It happens just about every day. The channel is useless to me as the video , when it does come in is so jerky ( like a film that has been compressed and it looks very robotic)that it is unwatchable.


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

Well it sounds like these HD LiL problems are nationwide. Dish Quality seems to be aware of the problems and I only hope the fix is coming soon...


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

What they have to deal with is the vagaries of the signal that comes from each and every local station - I don't envy the Dish techs at all!!

Garbage in garbage out.


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## liferules (Aug 14, 2005)

Jim5506 said:


> What they have to deal with is the vagaries of the signal that comes from each and every local station - I don't envy the Dish techs at all!!
> 
> Garbage in garbage out.


Yeah, I'm not sure it's Dish at all, but rather local stations that are clueless about HD and MPEG4...


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

The station for Cbs in HOuston looks fine ota. It is the Dish Cbs station that looks unwatchable. The funny thing is that the Fox and Abc station look great . It is only the Cbs station that looks like crap . There is no Nbc in hd yet since they are having retransmission consent problems. But I am sure it will look as bad as the Cbs station since it is in 1080i too. That seems to be the problem with the 1080i stations. Dish doesn't use enough bitrate and downconverting to 720p doesn't help. This give us the robotic jerky video with the 1080i stations . I shudder to think what the national mpeg 4 stations will look like if they too are in 1080i downcoverted to 720p. It would make them unwatchable as well. I guess we will find out tommorrow when they add them . They are supposed to be in mpeg4 from what I read.


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

Am now comparing 622 that loses NBC and CBS HD Dallas LIL video with another 622 just sent from Dish. Both run direct from the coaxes from DPPlus Twin, with each 622 on a single coax and a Separator.

Last night, lost NBC and CBS HD LIL video on OLD 622. Switched to NEW 622 (via Source input switch on HDTV) and NBC and CBS HD were okay on the NEW 622. Swapped coaxes leading to the two 622s. Did Switch Check and OLD 622 was still losing NBC and CBS HD video. Did a soft reboot (power switch) and they came back.

If anyone has two HD MPEG4 receivers, and is losing video on ONLY 1 or 2 of the Network HD LIL stations, compare to see if the problem is on both at same time. Then, consider writing [email protected] with your observations. They are working diligently with me to try to narrow down the problem in Dallas HD DMA. So far, it looks like the problem is in the OLD 622, not the DPPlus Twin or the E*10 bird. But based on only one A-B comparison last night - and earlier checks with son and 622 in the Dallas area. He had NBC and CBS HD LIL when I did not.

When my one week of testing is completed, I will post a summary if there are clear results.

I am not talking about pixelation, picture tearing, audio sync problems, and so on. My OLD 622 loses Video on 2 of 4 Dallas HD LIL networks (NBC and CBS), but audio is still there. The Screen is Blank. FOX HD picture simply goes crazy at times, but that is a different problem, probably related to the bird or the local feed from Dallas.

Since several cities, besides Dallas (on several forums), are reporting this loss of ONLY 1 or 2 HD LIL network video. I am sure Dishquality would like to hear from anyone thus affected, especially anyone with 2 MPEG4 HD recievers that you can A-B.


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## chiotti (Jun 1, 2006)

I have the same problem here in phoenix cbs and nbc go blank but with sound,,untill a reboot


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

chiotti said:


> I have the same problem here in phoenix cbs and nbc go blank but with sound,,untill a reboot


The below is what I sent to Dish's Engineering this morning.

It seems that when my wife loses Sat provided local HD it is sometime one, sometimes two, and sometimes all four local HD's that lose the video *on one tuner only!*

Next time it occurs to you guys, try to view the other Sat Tuner to see if it is viewable. Additionally, after you restore the video with a reboot, see if any recording that is/was underay has the video present.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Dear Mr. xxxx,

Me again. )-; I had earlier identified to you a history of losing video from satellite provided HD Locals. No other channels, HD or SD are effected.

Last night we had a reoccurrence - with a twist.

My wife was recording two HD programs and watching a previously recorded show. When she finished watching the previously recorded event, she deleted it and when she returned to view one of the two local stations which were being recording . She saw a black screen with audio present. She stopped the recording and deleted it. Now when she attempted to view the other channels, she found that all of the satellite provided HD locals had lost video ON THAT TUNER.

She did a soft re-boot and this corrected the problem.

When we looked at the other recording that was in progress today IT NEVER LOST THE VIDEO. (Of course there were two separate segments recorded with a 3-4 minute gap during the booting process.)

I regret I cannot reconstruct the event to tell you which tuner was effected nor did I look at TV-2 to see if it had been affected.

Hope this helps. "


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I Think it is linked to the audio/video stuttering issues. I see the black screen on one tuner . When I try to tune to the digital cbs station I get a black screen and only audio. I hit pip or swap tuners and I can get the cbs station on the other tuner. Sometimes I can get all the digital hd local stations on both tuners except cbs but only on one tuner. 

I think this is related to the begining problems we suffered when we first got the 622. IF you remember there was audio popping on the second tuner to tv 2. They did a software update to fix this and then we got audio /video stuttering in its place. IF you remember the 942 it too suffered from no dolby digital sound on one of its tuners as well until they fixed the software. It seems that Dish has a history of trouble with these dual tuner receivers like the 522/625/942/622. 

I bet if we put the 622 into dual mode and watched long enough we could isolate which tuner is suffering from the black screen , audio/ video stuttering and I bet it is tv 2 tuner.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> ...
> 
> I bet if we put the 622 into dual mode and watched long enough we could isolate which tuner is suffering from the black screen , audio/ video stuttering and I bet it is tv 2 tuner.


I think you may be correct. My wife *does* operate her 622 in Dual Mode. It was only recently that we realized that it may occur on one TV and not the other at the same time. 
We have not seen the stuttering problem. We got the first 622 on May 1st - maybe it had been fixed by then? That 622 was replaced on May 18th and this one has only the loss of video oh HD locals from Sat....

Will continue to post future episodes in this thread as they occur - and will E-mail Dish also.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I have noticed less video stuttering and audio dropouts lately but I have been watching more of my mpeg4 locals and the hd national channels lately. I did get a case of video stuttering the other day and it was on tuner 1 on my ota station. So I guess that would blow my theory about it being just on tuner 2 for the stuttering issue. As far as the black screen I never got it till I got Mpeg 4 hd locals.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

SaltiDawg said:


> Will continue to post future episodes in this thread as they occur - and will E-mail Dish also.


Here is my E-mail from today 6/13/06:

"Lost video again on CH-4 (WRC/NBC) and CH-9 (WUSA/CBS) only. (Washington, DC, locals.) All other channels had normal video and audio.

This is the Sat provided HD locals ONLY. All other operations normal. 93 Signal strength on transponder #5 , Sat 61.5

The loss ONLY affected TV-2 and only the video on the two of four locals.

Called Dish and asked CSR if there was anything else he wanted me to do before I rebooted.. He took all the data and prepared an Engineering Report, hopefully to reach you.

While on the phone with him and viewing the POINT DISH screen, I asked what the Tuner 02 window meant. He explained. I asked if I could change that to 01 and he said, "Sure."

I did that and when I backed out of the menus the picture had returned! Don't know if my changing the selected tuner in the POINT DISH menu had anything to do with it.

If it happens again I shall call Dish again and see if this is repeatable."


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

SaltiDawg said:


> ...
> 
> If it happens again I shall call Dish again and see if this is repeatable."


It happened again an hour later. It was on Tuner 1 this time, TV-2. Going to the POINT DISH and switching to Tuner 2 did nothing! [email protected]#$%

Will call Dish (again.)


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

SaltiDawg said:


> ...
> 
> If it happens again I shall call Dish again and see if this is repeatable."


Lost video on CH-4 and CH-9 only (3rd time in a day.)

Called Dish, went thru all the hoops of Checking Switch , Sat signal strength, etc.

CSR said that he/they had three reports of loss of two Sat HD local video signals from Phoenix, AZ. He also wrote up an Engineering Report. So, the problem occurs in Phoenix, Dallas, DC, and elsewhere.

I pointed out that the two affected Channels are 1080i. While TV-1 was connected to Tuner 02 (again) when the failure occured, in the POINT DISH screen I switched it to Tuner 01 *and the problem remained with TV-1*. ?????


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## m00se (Feb 10, 2003)

SaltiDawg said:


> Lost video on CH-4 and CH-9 only (3rd time in a day.)
> 
> Called Dish, went thru all the hoops of Checking Switch , Sat signal strength, etc.
> 
> ...


I have been having the same problems in Dallas only now it affects the entire tv, meaning no picture at all except channel 101 if/when you can get past the checkswitch screen. The first CSR last week suggested I needed a replacement 622 and I received the replacement two days later, but then when the CSR tried to activate it the results were the same as on the original 622.

A technician visit was scheduled for Saturday. I resorted to watching the tv that is connected to a 625 only to have the checkswitch message appear on that too. Called Dish technical support and while the CSR was walking me through things to try everything faded to black leading us to think it must be a bad LNB. I'm hoping this can be resolved once and for all on Saturday.

I do have a question though. The original 622 is version C whilst the replacement is version E. The first CSR suggested I reconnect the original box to preserve my recordings since it is not the box after all. I am wondering though if the green glob which was experienced on the network channels has anything to do with the box and which box would you suggest I keep. I realize that opting for the new box would mean losing the recordings, but there isn't really anything on there I couldn't live without.


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## ClarkBar (Mar 5, 2006)

m00se said:


> I am wondering though if the green glob which was experienced on the network channels has anything to do with the box and which box would you suggest I keep. I realize that opting for the new box would mean losing the recordings, but there isn't really anything on there I couldn't live without.


Working with Dishquality, I just finished a one-week A-B comparison of two 622s. The original one was losing video on CBS and NBC HD Dallas LIL. I had very little chance to compare, but a couple of times when I lost CBS and NBC HD video on the old 622, they were fine on the new 622. This and some recording problems with NBC HD on the old 622 led me to a tentative conclusion that the missing video on NBC and CBS was a function of the 622. I did extensive testing of my signal strength and all the Check Switch and SYSINFO tests, and even swapped coaxes from one side of a DPP Twin. Sent a long log to Dishquality, which they are distributing around.

*Regarding the Green Glob*. I usually see this on FOX HD in Dallas. As I recall, when it came on, it came on both my 622s which I could switch back and forth. Also, NBC HD started doing what I call a Mosaic picture, a Green Glob sort of picture. I concluded from my short tests that these bad pictures were coming from either the Dallas feed to Dish or from Echostar 10, not from inside the 622.

So far, my conclusion is that the complete loss of Video on 1 or more of 4 HD LIL networks from the same Spotbeam is probabably a function of the reciever. And probably most of the pixelation, tearing, green glob and mosaic pictures are a function of the network feed in Dallas to Dish or from a problem with Echostar 10.

I now have access to CBS and FOX HD from a single station in Sherman OTA, so I will be able to quickly compare picture quality of Dish HD LIL versus OTA. At least for two network feeds. I was surprised to learn that a station may transmit one major network on its fundamental digital frequency and another network on a subchannel. Probably only relevant in rural or underserved markets.


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