# Do Dish DVR's Require Phone Line?



## mya23rd (Dec 11, 2005)

Right now I have a DirecTV Tivo but I am seriously considering switching over to Dish. My sister really wants some fo their international programming. I know I have to give up Tivo but I don’t want to give up my DVR so I’m looking at the 625. Does this box require a phone line for either setup or full functionality. I really hope not because I would like to disconnect my landline which I only keep for my Tivo. It adds 30 bucks a month to my bill and I really want to get rid of it. So will I need to keep it if I move over to a Dish DVR. Thanks.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A phone line is not required for the DVR to operate.

If it is a 522 or other two tuner DVR E* will charge you an additional $5 per month if you don't connect a phone line (in addition to any DVR fees that may apply).

Those with many receivers that don't connect phone lines have been known to be audited, which is a PITA.

JL


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

The contracts all require it and dish is now actively enforcing that policy, so do what you feel you need to do.. just ask yourself - Do I feel Lucky?


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## mya23rd (Dec 11, 2005)

Thanks guys. I'm not really feeling lucky. I really thought that Dish Net stopped doing that whole 5 dollar charge. I don't get it. Don't they realize fewer adn fewer people have landlines. Thats definitely a disadvantage compard to cable espeically when you consider that more people are relying solely on their cell phones. I remember earing somewhere that DirecTV is moving to phase out the requirement for phone lines. Apparently many cstomers have been complaining and rightly so. I don't know when DTV will phase out that requirement. But I assume they will just stop requiring that fee and download everythign to receivers through the satellite.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

They never started a $5 charge for not connecting a phone line.

The dual tuner DVRs have two tuners... and they charge a fee per tuner... but if you connect a phone line to it they will credit you $5 for doing so. It isn't a phone line fee.

The odd part, and I've not seen anyone officially address this...

I know full well that the Dish contracts all say "you must connect a phone line to each receiver"... and they have audited some people for not doing this...

BUT... how can they say "phone line required" and at the same time say "if you connect a phone line we will credit $5"?

I mean, if the phone line is required and they will potentially audit you and worse if you don't pass the audit... then shouldn't they assume you have the phone line connected to the dual tuner DVR and not charge you the second tuner fee in the first place?

It seems confusing to me... and I wonder if anyone with a 942 or 522 dual-tuner DVR has brought that up during an audit?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

mya23rd said:


> I don't know when DTV will phase out that requirement. But I assume they will just stop requiring that fee and download everythign to receivers through the satellite.


I can't speak for DirecTV... but Dish doesn't "download" anything to receivers through the phone line. All communication TO the receiver is by satellite. The phone line allows the receiver to dial-out and communicate things like pay-per-view information to Dish so they know to bill you for it. It also serves a secondary purpose, in that if it ever called in from a phone number other than yours... Dish would know you are cheating and sharing your account with someone else.

I have been with Dish several years, and don't have either of my receivers connected to a phone line. I don't do pay-per-view, so there has been no need technically to do so... and I know I'll pass an audit if they call me since I'm not cheating them... but I also realize that I am not fully in compliance so if they did audit me, it would be my own fault for not connecting the phone lines.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Am I cheating if I take my Dish receiver to my mountain house where there is no landline? Will it work there? Seems to me that a good reason for satellite TV is that it works where cable and telephone service is not available.

--- CHAS


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

IT will work - but you're setting yourself up for the audit team....


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

HIPAR said:


> Am I cheating if I take my Dish receiver to my mountain house where there is no landline? Will it work there? Seems to me that a good reason for satellite TV is that it works where cable and telephone service is available.
> 
> --- CHAS


It depends what you are talking about. If you mean you are paying for service at 1 location (your main home), and you want to take your box to another location (your mountain home) while you are there, then technically you are breaking the law. E* would require you to pay for another account for your mountain house. That being said, there are people that feel if they are only watching at 1 location at a time they shouldn't have to pay for a whole different account. I can see both sides. From what I have read the potential for you getting audited depends on several factors (number of receivers, length of time the receivers aren't plugged into a phone line, etc.).


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

James Long said:


> If it is a 522 or other two tuner DVR E* will charge you an additional $5 per month if you don't connect a phone line (in addition to any DVR fees that may apply).


The fee is not just for dual tuner DVRs, it is for any of the dual tuner 2-room receivers. So the non-DVR 322 also has the fee but the 721 and 921 do not.


HDMe said:


> The dual tuner DVRs have two tuners... and they charge a fee per tuner... but if you connect a phone line to it they will credit you $5 for doing so. It isn't a phone line fee. <snip>
> 
> BUT... how can they say "phone line required" and at the same time say "if you connect a phone line we will credit $5"? <snip>
> 
> It seems confusing to me...


The Additional Outlet fee has been explained as covering the expense of maintaining your subscription authorization for the smart card in each extra receiver. It was widely assumed that an extra dual tuner receiver would be charged only 1 fee because it has only 1 smart card, and when the 721 was introduced this did indeed turn out to be the case.

The new 2-room receivers allow customers to avoid buying an extra piece of equipment and save $5 one their bill because those receivers still have just 1 (built-in) smart card. Dish decided that their lax enforcement of the phone line requirement was causing them serious problems (lost revenue due to account stacking?) and also wished not to give up the AO revenue (I really doubt it costs $5/mo to keep a computer record and transmit it in the authorization stream). What to do? Charge an "Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee" for the second output (preserve revenue) but waive it if a phone line is connected (location control, possible because there are no uncovered expenses). It's a fee that is added to your bill, not a credit that is taken off.

I suspect you are confused because you want to accept the party line and are now trying to reconcile that with your own observations. The fact that you didn't offer an analogy tells me you may have doubts  . If the fee is tied directly to the presence of a phone line, how is it not a phone line fee?


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

mya23rd said:


> Thanks guys. I'm not really feeling lucky. I really thought that Dish Net stopped doing that whole 5 dollar charge. I don't get it. Don't they realize fewer adn fewer people have landlines. Thats definitely a disadvantage compard to cable espeically when you consider that more people are relying solely on their cell phones. I remember earing somewhere that DirecTV is moving to phase out the requirement for phone lines. Apparently many cstomers have been complaining and rightly so. I don't know when DTV will phase out that requirement. But I assume they will just stop requiring that fee and download everythign to receivers through the satellite.


Of course one thing I noticed is that you said you pay $30 for your landline just for your TiVo. If you switched to Dish and did away with your landline you'd still be saving $25 a month. Sure the extra $5 for no phone line might be a bit of a nuisance, but it seems to me you'd still net $25 a month.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

BobaBird said:


> Dish decided that their lax enforcement of the phone line requirement was causing them serious problems (lost revenue due to account stacking?) and also wished not to give up the AO revenue (I really doubt it costs $5/mo to keep a computer record and transmit it in the authorization stream). What to do? Charge an "Additional Outlet Programming Access Fee" for the second output (preserve revenue) but waive it if a phone line is connected (location control, possible because there are no uncovered expenses). It's a fee that is added to your bill, not a credit that is taken off.
> 
> I suspect you are confused because you want to accept the party line and are now trying to reconcile that with your own observations. The fact that you didn't offer an analogy tells me you may have doubts  . If the fee is tied directly to the presence of a phone line, how is it not a phone line fee?


You missed what I was confused about...

How can Dish say the following:

1. IF you connect a phone line, we will waive the $5 additional outlet fee for the 2nd tuner.

2. You MUST connect a phone line to every receiver.

Statement #2 overrides statement #1!

If a person has a dual-tuner receiver... chooses not to connect to a phone line, and pays the $5 second outlet fee... but then is audited for not having a phone line connection... what happens?

Dish seems to be waffling here... either the phone line is required or it is not! They can't say "you can pay $5 extra OR connect a phone line" and then say the phone line is required.

IF the option exists to pay $5 and not connect a phone line... then they aren't requiring the phone line... and thus, an audit for anyone on any of these receivers shouldn't be made because Dish has told them they don't have to connect the phone line if they pay the $5.

That's what I'm confused about... because it seems like the audit group has audited some people with 942s and told them that all must be connected to a phone line.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDMe said:


> 2. You MUST connect a phone line to every receiver.
> 1. IF you connect a phone line, we will waive the $5 additional outlet fee for the 2nd tuner.


I like it better that way around. It serves as a reward for following the rule. What is missing from those two lines is the punishment for not following the rule:

3. IF you do not connect a phone line to ALL of your receivers we may disable any or all of your receivers until you have brought your receivers into compliance and verified the location of ALL of your receivers.

JL


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

mya23rd said:


> Thanks guys. I'm not really feeling lucky. I really thought that Dish Net stopped doing that whole 5 dollar charge. I don't get it. Don't they realize fewer adn fewer people have landlines. Thats definitely a disadvantage compared to cable especially when you consider that more people are relying solely on their cell phones. I remember earing somewhere that DirecTV is moving to phase out the requirement for phone lines. Apparently many customers have been complaining and rightly so. I don't know when DTV will phase out that requirement. But I assume they will just stop requiring that fee and download everything to receivers through the satellite.


Before you complain about that $5 fee why don't you first figure out how much your dish network bill would be in comparison to your current DirecTv bill and land line phone bill combined. So get E*, cancel your house phone, add some international channels, and end up spending less per month on your TV. Seems line a NO BRAINER to me.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

HDMe, I see what you're saying. This isn't just some CSR, sub-contracted installer, or discussion forum saying you can get away with ignoring statement 2. Statement 1 comes from them but then the audit team comes along and applies statement 2 without regard to statement 1 or a Dish granted RV/Trucker exemption.

JL, avoiding a penalty isn't much of a reward, it's just the way things should be.


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