# HR20 vs. Series 3 TiVo



## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

So, I'm making the big switch from SD to HD, and I know I won't be able to live without a DVR. I've been waiting for the HR20 and Series 3 to come out before I take the plunge.

So, I know it's a little premature to make comparisons (since the Series 3 is still unreleased, and all of 2 people on this board have HR20s), but I'd still like to hear people's thoughts.

The battle:

*DTV and the HR20-700*

vs.

*Series 3 TiVo and Comcast*
​
My important criteria, in rough priority order:

1) Quality of interface/ease of use

2) Programming choice, especially HD. I know Sunday Ticket is the killer app for a lot of people here, and it's something I would get (especially with Superfan/HD games) but lack of ST is not a deal breaker.

3) Picture quality

4) Costs

FWIW, I am a current DTV sub, with a ReplayTV DVR. I'm more-or-less happy with the RTV now (my first two units had to be returned, and the software was EXTREMELY buggy for a while, though much less so now). The 30-sec skip feature on the RTV is very nicely implemented. And my wife can use the RTV without me having to run it for her.


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## jeffster (Nov 3, 2005)

The HR20 is out now -- when will the S3 Tivo be out?


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

jeffster said:


> The HR20 is out now -- when will the S3 Tivo be out?


"real soon now" -- the general guess is sometime in September, and no later than the end of October.


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## jeffster (Nov 3, 2005)

If true, I'd at least consier switching to TW cable, though they have slightly fewer hd channels than D* in my area right now...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Just to address some of your points

#1) The interface... that can only be decided by the individual purchaser.... there is not going to be one universal answer... Some peple think the DirecTV interface is "difficult", other find it very easy... Some people find the TiVo interface difficult, others find it very easy.

One of the biggest problems there... is people are VERY used to the TiVo interface as they have had it for 6 years now... Changing to something else is always difficult..... Kinda like if a Windows person switched to a Mac... Different interface... it will take a while to get used to.... doesn't make the Mac a bad system...

#2) That is going to differ by area of the country, even possible down to the city you are in. Not each and every cable co has the exact same lineup. So where it might be significantly more programming in Chicago or Boston, may only be 1 or 2 if any in some other part of the country.

#3) There are ways to measure bit-rate, There are ways to find out what type of image you are getting... but ultimately... "Your Eyes to Your Brain, Displayed on Your TV, From Your Source provider"..... sure some generalizations can be made... but then again it is going to be on an individual basis.

#4) Cost...... cost is cost... until the T3 is release, really don't know what it is going to cost... but you also have to mix in the "other" costs if you switch (like receivers for your other TV's and the added "rental" fees and stuff like that... which exist for both enviornments)


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## shaun-ohio (Aug 24, 2002)

wow earl you must have a huge house with all those receivers? how do you have time to watch all of them? i dont think the tivo series 3 will be a cost issue, i have a dvd recorder with tivo now, and i can get the series 2 tivo with dual tuners for only 30.00 and of course pay the monthly subscription too, and of course its a lease too just like directv receivers and dvr's are now, so i doubt the tivo will be a cost issues, because look at it in the long run what you are getting for your money, more features then the r15 or the hr20 and broadband capable too


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The house is "big".. not too big though.

I have three of the DVR's on the main TV... then one on each of the others (master bedroom, spare/guest/play room, basement, and the flip top in the office).

"indications" over at www.tivocommunity.com are that the T3 isn't going to be "cheap".. but probably one clip the $1k mark the HR10-250 did when it came out.

The feature set... all depends on what you are looking for.
The HR20 is expected to be "broadband" compatible as well... once they have enabled those features...

There is feature A on one unit feature B on another and so on...
I highly doubt we will ever see a DVR that has "every" feature ever thought of for a DVR...


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

This should be an excellent thread. I'd guess that there are many people with the exact same decision to make. HR20 vs Series3. I've been following this forum and the TCF forum forever. Thanks Earl for the HR20 review! Now we await the Tivo Series3.

I've been with DTV for as long as I can remember. I also have Cablevision and Optimum Online (with Boost). 

We have 7 TV's. 

The 3 main TV's have DirecTV with two HDTivo's (with large HD TVs) and one DirecTivo (with a SD TV). The service is everything from DirecTV. Total Choice Premier with the HD package, along with NFL Sunday Ticket and Superfan.

The other 4 non-critical TV's (kitchen and bedrooms) have just regular cable with no cable-box. Just have the basic cable service which includes YES network (which is critical throughout the house). 

It's always seemed easier to have DirecTv on the main TV's with all of their content (including HD) available, and cable on the remaining TV's for casual viewing in the kitchen and bedrooms which also allows the YES network to be available everywhere in the house.

Now the big decision, and I've been thinking about this for months, along with reading every forum. Money really isn't an issue. The "best" TV experence is the goal.

Now the decision criteria ...

1) We all (including my wife - this is important) love the TiVo interface. My wife can hardly use a cell phone or VCR but absolutely loves the Tivo. I'd guess either the HR20 or Series3 would work out with the Series3 being simple.

2) It bothers me every day that the HDTiVo's are slow. While the box is stellar, I continually switch one of the tuners to an XM music channel so that the interface speeds up. I'm sure this will be fixed by 6.3 or the HR20 or the Series3.

3) It's always bothered me that the DirecTv TiVo boxes do not have all of the usual Tivo cool features. I want to be able to access the TiVo's from the internet, on the road. I also want MRV (multi-room viewing) and Tivo2Go. Want ALL of the TiVo cool features. Want the latest and greatest. If I switch to the Series3, I feel that I'll finally have TV nirvana. Finally.

4) I love the dual buffers on the TiVo's. I use dual buffers every day. So do the kids. I continually have 1 baseball or football game on 1 buffer and another on the other buffer and switch between the two. It's easy. Hit one button to contunally swap between the two tuners. It's the way I watch TV. The kids also do exactly the same thing. My wife has no need for dual buffers (doesn't know they exist). The Series3 has it all. The HR20 would be lacking.

5) HD content worries me. I love the HD content on DirecTv. We watch all of the network HD shows, have ESPN HD, all of the movie HD channels. DirecTV is fine. Now here's where the guessing begins. Cablevision today is somewhat the same. In doing a thorough comparison to see which service has better content. DirecTv has the advantage with NFL Sunday Ticket HD, and ESPN2 HD. Cablevision has the advantage with YES HD, SNY HD, and MSG HD. Looks like DirecTv with MPEG4 may get the sports networks with HD but today it bugs me everytime we can't get a Yankee game in HD on DirecTv but it's on Cablevision. The real issue here is who will have more HD over time. I'm just not sure. I even may do the unthinkable and sacrifice NFL Sunday Ticket to get all of the bells and whistles of the Series3.

6) HD picture quality. It seems to be about the same. I do have one Sci-Atlanta HD box in the house to test the Cablevision HD picture against DirecTv HD and they seem to be similar with maybe a slight advantage to Cablevision but it's really no different. 

So now within the next few months ... have a MAJOR TV decision to make.

Do we switch to 3 Series3's (with Cablevision) with the major advantage of getting all of cool TiVo featues (dual buffer, MRV, TivoWeb, TiVo2Go).

Or do we go with 3 HR20's (with DirecTv), but really have no confidence in new cool features, but keep NFL Sunday Ticket (with HD).

The choice would be very easy if both services had the exact same content. I'd go with the Series3 and feel extremely confident that TiVo would always have more features then everyone else.

This is also actually a strange situation because for years I've trashed Cablevision but now the Series3 may push me back.

I'm also considering maybe getting the Series3 as the main hub everywhere but have one TV with NFL Sunday Ticket with the cheapest DirecTv service during the Fall/Winter for football on Sundays.

Tough decision!


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## jeffster (Nov 3, 2005)

Is the Series 3 from Cablevision going to be something out in advance of a generally available cablecard S3? (We've got TWC - just took over for Adelphia) here.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The TiVo Series 3, is not a "integrated" system. It will only be available from TiVo (at least at this point).

You would need the Cablecards from your local cable-co to work with the unit.

See www.tivocommunity.com for a lot more detail


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Got back to thinking about the HR20 vs Series3 with the rainy day here in the east. Been watching the HR20 posts all week and all the hoopla about the Series3 beta picture (from HDBeat) and now the little bit of info on the Tivo web-site about the Series3.

As I mentioned last time, been DirecTV HD for a long time now.

The HDBeat pictures were interesting because the guy also had a Cablevision box, so hopefully the Series3 will work with Cablevision. Also, I read the comments about 3-4 visits to get the thing to work. Well, guess I have two thoughts: first, hopefully they've worked out the bugs during the beta, and 2) so what if it takes a few days to get it to work as long as they get it working and it's great for years to come. Yep, certainly would be nice to have zero issues with cablecard but I'd guess that once it works it stays working.

What I'm starting to get excited about is all of the TiVo additional bells and whistles with the Series3. Was talking to friend this week, and he's scheduling his Tivo from work (when he forgets to setup a recording) and he's watching his other family members shows on his Tivo with MRV. Geez, that would really be convenient. 

Again, I love DirecTV HD with the HR10, somewhat better content then Cablevison especially with Sunday Ticket, but the other bells and whistles of the Series3 could be very useful every day.

This is going to be a difficult choice. Gonna be fun the next few months ... also saw post on HDBeat of rumor 9/12 announce ... we'll see ...

Hey Earl, you gonna get a Series3 to play with? Be interested in your review.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sixto said:


> Hey Earl, you gonna get a Series3 to play with? Be interested in your review.


If TiVo is willing to hook me up (even if it is just a loan)...

I'd give it a shot (even though it would mean I would have to activate Digital Comcast.... .... shivers....)


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks Earl ... yep, would mean going back to big-bad cable ... but I'm starting to think that maybe that's not such a bad thing. ... especially in my house where I have cable for the other 4 TV's (kitchen, bedrooms) anyway.

Gotta believe that TiVo learned alot from the HR10 so the Series3 should do everything the HR10 did plus all the latest-and-greatest features of the new DT standalone boxes.

So now the entire interface into the Cable Company world could be TiVo HD. You would only need the cable company for delivery and content. Delivery is hardwired (and more reliable for me then DBS) and the content is pretty close. DirecTV better in some areas (Sunday Ticket, ESPN2 HD) and Cablevision is better in some areas (Local Long Island news, RSN in HD 24/7). DirecTV will probably win the content battle in the long-term but I'm really not sure. Seems like TiVo will always win the features battle because that's what they do to stay in business.

Good battle ... content vs features ...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sixto said:


> Good battle ... content vs features ...


The problem with that.... for one of the contenders... the CONTENT varries from city to city.

What might be high quality/quantity for another... maybe completely different for another person... even if they have the same cable-co carrier.

Prices are different, Lineups are different on the cable-co's... which make it so hard to compare on a national scale. (Another reason why it is difficult to bring FIOS into some of these comparison discussions).

Also the whole cable-card thing.... the cable-co's 100% don't want them to exist... and they are not done fighting it. And that piece is a critical part of the TiVo Series 3 effective ness (As very few people are going to spend that kind of money just for OTA)

It is going to be intresting....

There is a lot of discussion going on at www.tivocommunity.com about the unit


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## stuart628 (Jul 8, 2004)

is the HR20 compatiable with the phase 3 dish?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Yep ... that's what will make the debate so complicated over the next few months ...

Some may love the Series3 while others will love the HR20, with the underlying issue maybe really being the cable company acceptance/content, which is different everywhere.

Thanks Earl. Your dedication and countless hours spent on this stuff is greatly appreciated.

Yep, been following the discussion over at TCF but you're the expert so enjoyed the discussion here ...


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

stuart628 said:


> is the HR20 compatiable with the phase 3 dish?


OT for this thread, but it will receive all but the MPEG4 channels, which are on the 99 and 103 satellites. DirecTV will upgrade you to a 5 LNB dish if you wish, however.


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## stuart628 (Jul 8, 2004)

bobnielsen said:


> OT for this thread, but it will receive all but the MPEG4 channels, which are on the 99 and 103 satellites. DirecTV will upgrade you to a 5 LNB dish if you wish, however.


too quick on the draw there my friend. First of all I have a Phase 3 dish, I dont want a 55 pound dish to go on my roof that in my area of high wind will probably cause some damage, what about a pole mount you might ask-nada for tree reasons. So my option is stay with Directv and the HR20, or get cable and/or tivo series three, I just thought I would ask a question to see if the Hr20 was compatiable to aid me in my process. I should have explained myself a little better and for that I apologize, but no need to get hasty and declare it Off Topic. Thank you for your answer.


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## cpstew (Sep 2, 2006)

I am glad this string was started...
I have been with D* for 8 year and DTivo for 6. I have been waiting for MPEG 4 and the H20 for what seems like forever. After months of cogitation, last week I finally called TW and made an installation appointment. I am have requested SA 8300's - my plan was to use them until the Series 3 is avaiable. I had to re think the plan when I got the notice aobut the H20 availability. 

I am sticking with the plan to switch to TW and get the Series 3 as soon as it is available for the following reasons, in priority order:

1) Dual buffers - it's not just a feature, it is a way of life.
2) Multi-room viewing - I have been irritated for years that D* disabled this feature.
3) Tivo - The wife LOVES her tivo and would rather stay with SD than give up Tivo and get HD.
4) D* CSR told me to get the H20 would require a new 2 year commitment.

I haven't read anything that definitively confirms that the series 3 will have dual buffers and MR, but I assume Tivo is smart enough to know they are required. Does anyone know for sure?

I am used to the integrated DTivo box. My assumption is that the dual cable card slots will make the tivo effectively integrated. The cost will be a slight hurdle, but I have waited so long (watching a SD picture on my 50" DLP is killing me,) that I can get over the cost.

Am I missing anything? Seems like a no brainer.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

cpstew said:


> Am I missing anything? Seems like a no brainer.


You might want to do some research on Switched Digital Video, which T-W plans to implement, and how it affects CableCard, which TiVo will be using to decode video.

Personally, I would wait to see how things go with the S3 deployment and then I would wait to see how far the price might drop.


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## cpstew (Sep 2, 2006)

bidger said:


> You might want to do some research on Switched Digital Video, which T-W plans to implement, and how it affects CableCard, which TiVo will be using to decode video.
> 
> Personally, I would wait to see how things go with the S3 deployment and then I would wait to see how far the price might drop.


Good advice - thanks. I am hoping I can live with the SA 8300 until those things play out. In my mind, that is better than a 2 year commitment to D* for the H20.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

I thought San Diego was Cox territory, or is it split with T-W? 

If you have a choice of providers you should consider Cox because they will be coming out with integrated TiVo boxes in the not-too-distant future.


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## cpstew (Sep 2, 2006)

bidger said:


> I thought San Diego was Cox territory, or is it split with T-W?


It is split with TW.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

So you don't get a choice, your area is designated for T-W exclusvely. Is that correct?


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

Sixto said:


> This should be an excellent thread. I'd guess that there are many people with the exact same decision to make. HR20 vs Series3. I've been following this forum and the TCF forum forever. Thanks Earl for the HR20 review! Now we await the Tivo Series3.
> 
> I've been with DTV for as long as I can remember. I also have Cablevision and Optimum Online (with Boost).
> 
> ...


I think you will find DIRECTV vastly superior in the next 12 months.They will be launching new satellites and be the number HD provider in the country with 100-150national channels and 1500 local channels in HD once new satellites launch. ALso according to the investor conference last february they will have a broadband video service that blows away the content tivo has. Finally the INtel and MSFT deals once implemented will give Tivo HMO a run for the money.
Lets see what Tivo offers in the S3 but for the last few years I feel they have been losing their edge.


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

cpstew said:


> I am glad this string was started...
> I have been with D* for 8 year and DTivo for 6. I have been waiting for MPEG 4 and the H20 for what seems like forever. After months of cogitation, last week I finally called TW and made an installation appointment. I am have requested SA 8300's - my plan was to use them until the Series 3 is avaiable. I had to re think the plan when I got the notice aobut the H20 availability.
> 
> I am sticking with the plan to switch to TW and get the Series 3 as soon as it is available for the following reasons, in priority order:
> ...


One more comment. If I were you I would try AT&T new homezone receiver supposedly available in San Diego. It has many cool new internet VOD and other integration with Yahoo music and photos.


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## cpstew (Sep 2, 2006)

Correct - I do not have a choice. Parts of SD are cox and other parts are TW. I am in a TW area.


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## Dave_S (Jan 7, 2006)

dvrblogger said:


> I think you will find DIRECTV vastly superior in the next 12 months.They will be launching new satellites and be the number HD provider in the country with 100-150national channels and 1500 local channels in HD once new satellites launch. ALso according to the investor conference last february they will have a broadband video service that blows away the content tivo has. Finally the INtel and MSFT deals once implemented will give Tivo HMO a run for the money.
> Lets see what Tivo offers in the S3 but for the last few years I feel they have been losing their edge.


I am tired of waiting for DTV, their interfaces are horrendously slow, their feature sets are minimal, and the only reason they are in the position that they are in, is because they have the only HD DVR with Tivo interface.

Since I am in the Boston DMA, the content is relatively the same between cable and DTV, with the exception of NFL sunday Ticket, which I dropped a few years ago. I want a HD DVR with advanced features like Tivo2go, MRV, and being able to access the dvr from the Internet.

So my choices are so far a new DTV HD DVR which doesn't have dual buffers or OTA (wtf?) not to mention a history of DTV not implementing new features (i.e. version 6.x software). Or a Series 3 Tivo that relies on a hardware standard which it has no contol over on an infrastructure level.

In summary the choices are: A DVR that has less features than we currently have or A DVR with lots of cool features, but could be a door stop if a new technology like SDV happens soon.

I love it when I have choices....


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Dave_S said:


> Since I am in the Boston DMA, the content is relatively the same between cable and DTV, with the exception of NFL sunday Ticket, which I dropped a few years ago. I want a HD DVR with advanced features like Tivo2go, MRV, and being able to access the dvr from the Internet.


Exactly the same situation here in the NY DMA ... Series 3 on 9/17 is looking very attractive ... we'll see how the reviews go ...


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## msmith (Apr 23, 2002)

Another Me, Too.

I've been with DirecTV since 1998. I've had a HR10-250 that I paid $1000 for.

I'm looking pretty hard at going with the Series 3 and Cablevision. I'm just waiting to see what the Series 3 is like. The reviews of the HR20 are leaving me thinking that DirecTV doesn't really understand how people use their HDTivo.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dvrblogger said:


> I think you will find DIRECTV vastly superior in the next 12 months.They will be launching new satellites and be the number HD provider in the country with 100-150national channels and 1500 local channels in HD once new satellites launch. ALso according to the investor conference last february they will have a broadband video service that blows away the content tivo has. Finally the INtel and MSFT deals once implemented will give Tivo HMO a run for the money.
> Lets see what Tivo offers in the S3 but for the last few years I feel they have been losing their edge.


Another victim of DirecTV investor relations rhetoric.

If there is half that much HD content available to be had, I'd be surprised. Take a look at all of the current TC+ channels and decide for yourself how many of them would benefit from HD. Rest assured that there won't be many takers for TV Land HD (nor any channel with "Classic" in the name).

As for the computer angle, be aware that what has been implemented for SD OTA content probably won't find its way into HD. The content providers will be very hesitant to work with anyone who allows digital transfer of high definition material.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You would need the Cablecards from your local cable-co to work with the unit.


And there are reports of which you will have to decide the validity of yourself, that some cable operators won't provide cablecard for these units. TW is the one rumored at this point.

There is also the issue that some cable providers are going to a mini Channel on Demand type system that won't use a cablecard. In these systems, all channels are feed to a node via fiber, but only passed along if a STB requests it. The cable company can save bandwidth since it does not need enough last mile bandwidth to carry all channels, just enough to cover each STB.

I personally look forward to the Comcast TiVo more than the Series III. And the current rumored price is $799. So cheap compared to my first $1K HR10.


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

I spoke with a knowledgable Tivo Series 3 beta tester this week. One issue he pointed out was that DirecTV decodes then recompresses their feeds with a higher compression ration, in order to save bandwidth. Comcast (our local cable co) apparently does not. 


I have SD DirecTV right now, and I've often found the compression artifacts to be pretty heinous. So on this score, the Series 3 would seem to have the advantage.


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

Dave_S said:


> I am tired of waiting for DTV, their interfaces are horrendously slow, their feature sets are minimal, and the only reason they are in the position that they are in, is because they have the only HD DVR with Tivo interface.
> 
> Since I am in the Boston DMA, the content is relatively the same between cable and DTV, with the exception of NFL sunday Ticket, which I dropped a few years ago. I want a HD DVR with advanced features like Tivo2go, MRV, and being able to access the dvr from the Internet.
> 
> ...


ANother option you can consider is Vista Media Center with OCUR (cable card) . This will let you choose how powerful a DVR you get, Internet access and the ability to copy shows to other devices etc.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

batguano said:


> I spoke with a knowledgable Tivo Series 3 beta tester this week. One issue he pointed out was that DirecTV decodes then recompresses their feeds with a higher compression ration, in order to save bandwidth. Comcast (our local cable co) apparently does not.
> 
> I have SD DirecTV right now, and I've often found the compression artifacts to be pretty heinous. So on this score, the Series 3 would seem to have the advantage.


The Cable-Co's *HAVE* to be doing something to the signal... Why? OTA signals are not encrypted... The Cable-Co's most certainly MUST (with a doubt), are taking the signal from however they are getting it, and have to be manipulating the signal in some fashion to put it on their transmission mechansim, with the digitial encryption.

DirecTV has been making improvements with their encoding and receiving centers for the OTA Digital signals.... The MPEG-4 images, to me... on my TV look nearly identical to the OTA signals I get (this was on the H20)


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## pacificdunes (Sep 4, 2006)

I was a long time DTV customer and just switched to comcast. There is a definite difference in HD signals. Comcast is noticeably better in my area with HD signals. On Directv-HD MPEG2, there were a lot more artifacts and pixellation, and washed out colors. Comcast certainly has a quality edge in picture. I can't comment on MPEG4 from DTV, because I didn't want to get stuck with another 2 year commitment, just to move to a new dish.

While the MOTO hd dvr from comcast sucks, it's adequate until the new Tivo Series3, or AT&T can prove that Uverse will deliver all of its promises.


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## joekun (Aug 18, 2006)

> The MPEG-4 images, to me... on my TV look nearly identical to the OTA signals I get (this was on the H20)


I can't speak to OTA, but comparing MPEG-4 to other MPEG-2 HD channels I can see a huge difference, even between 720p channels like Fox vs ESPN. The ESPN college games I watched had tons of artifacts, but on the other hand "Prison Break" on Fox MPEG-4 looks incredible! I can't wait until they start offering ESPNHD in MPEG-4 so we can see the same type of quality (assuming it's there to begin with).


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

OK, now that Series 3 is nigh upon us, time for a bump in this thread.

What I've been looking at recently is just how expensive Comcast is! I'm talking about the monthly charges--not even the $800 cost of the box. I thought digital cable was s'posed to be cheaper that satellite....

Anyway, here's how the monthly fees break down, for a 1 receiver system (i.e. the HR20) with HBO:


```
[U]DirecTV[/U]
[FONT="Courier New"]
Total Choice Plus         $49.99
Local channels          (included)
HD                          9.99
[U]HBO                        12.00[/U]
[B]TOTAL                     $71.98[/B]
 [/FONT]
```
Am I forgetting anything? Earl, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you said that for a one receiver system, there was no additional DVR charge.

And here's the equivalent Comcast bill:


```
[U]Comcast[/U]
[FONT="Courier New"]
Digital Silver (includes 1 premium channel) $79.20
HD                                            5.00
Local channels                              (included)
HBO                                         (included)
TiVo subscription (3 year pre-purchase)       8.33
First Cablecard                               5.00
[U]Second Cablecard                             11.95[/U]
[B]TOTAL                                      $109.48[/B]
 [/FONT]
```
I just called Comcast to get the cablecard price (per bidger's suggestion below)--it's $5 for the first one, and $11.95 for each one thereafter.

Is this possible? Have I made a mistake somewhere? Is the more-or-less same package nearly *$40 a month more expensive* with Comcast?


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

I don't know where you're getting the $5.99 charge for locals with D*. It should just be $2 added to your TC package.
Maybe you're referring to the DVR charge?

As far as the Cable Card charge, you should call Comcast to find out. I hear some offices give them for no charge.


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## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

bidger said:


> I don't know where you're getting the $5.99 charge for locals with D*. It should just be $2 added to your TC package.
> Maybe you're referring to the DVR charge?
> 
> As far as the Cable Card charge, you should call Comcast to find out. I hear some offices give them for no charge.


for all those waiting for series 3 it is available now from Tivo.com and soon from stores . see this link http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060912/ap_on_hi_te/tivo_new_high_definition_dvr&printer=1


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

bidger said:


> I don't know where you're getting the $5.99 charge for locals with D*. It should just be $2 added to your TC package.
> Maybe you're referring to the DVR charge?
> 
> As far as the Cable Card charge, you should call Comcast to find out. I hear some offices give them for no charge.


Actually, $49.99 for TC+ includes locals. There isn't even an extra $2 charge. I think you are right though, he must have meant that that charge was the dvr charge.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Series 3 tivo possibly lost a HUGE advantage over the HR20. Apparently Cable Labs would not allow them to enable Multi-room viewing and Tivo2go. Tivo wants to enable these features, but they may not be allowed because they need to keep their cablecard certification.

If they can't offer these features, I see no reason whatsoever to even consider a series 3.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

skaeight said:


> Series 3 tivo possibly lost a HUGE advantage over the HR20. Apparently Cable Labs would not allow them to enable Multi-room viewing and Tivo2go. Tivo wants to enable these features, but they may not be allowed because they need to keep their cablecard certification.
> 
> If they can't offer these features, I see no reason whatsoever to even consider a series 3.


Where did you see this!

As that is a pontential bombshell


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Where did you see this!
> 
> As that is a pontential bombshell


There's a lot of discussion about it over at TCF in the new Series 3 forum. Here's a FAQ someone came up with that discusses it, but there are probably 3-4 threads talking about it:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791



> *Why are network transfers disabled? Will they be enabled?*
> TiVo had to disable transfers to comply with Cable Labs CableCARD certification requirements. TiVo is investigating and hopes to enable network transfers in a future update.


That doesn't sound too promising to me. It also appears that the eSATA port is disabled, and the internal drive uses a Western Digital proprietary SATA connector. HR20 is looking better and better.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

skaeight said:


> There's a lot of discussion about it over at TCF in the new Series 3 forum. Here's a FAQ someone came up with that discusses it, but there are probably 3-4 threads talking about it:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791
> 
> That doesn't sound too promising to me. It also appears that the eSATA port is disabled, and the internal drive uses a Western Digital proprietary SATA connector. HR20 is looking better and better.


I thinks I need to do a little trolling...

Disabled? and the eSATA and a proprietary SATA connector.... ouch
Strike 1, 2, and 3

Mix in when people start having issues with cable-cards..... (which is out of TiVo's control)... My neighbor just tried this past weekend to get a cable-card in his Hitachi plasma... 7 cards later (over 2 days) they got one to work about 90% (still can't get HBO).....


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I thinks I need to do a little trolling...
> 
> Disabled? and the eSATA and a proprietary SATA connector.... ouch
> Strike 1, 2, and 3
> ...


I'm pretty sure the eSATA port being disabled also has to do w/ Cable Labs. Indications are that it will be enabled sometime in the future (by year end maybe) but they're working out the details of how to implement it in accordance with Cable Labs policies.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

skaeight said:


> Actually, $49.99 for TC+ includes locals. There isn't even an extra $2 charge. I think you are right though, he must have meant that that charge was the dvr charge.


What I meant was that for those in areas served with locals, it's just $2 more added to the base TC package. I tend to be of that mindset, thinking in terms of base package, because I'm in an unserved area.

And yeah, skaeight, I'm a member of TCF, as I believe you are (I know the username is familiar), and I've been monitoring the S3. The thing that amazes me is that it's been non-TiVo reps responsible for all the info that's been disclosed so far. The strategy has worked, but I would feel played if I were one of those people. Of course, some of them are such fanatics I think they'd have designed, built, and distributed the units if TiVo asked them.

I'm taking a "wait and see" position right now. I don't have cable, so I'd be using it for OTA and there aren't that many channels here, 1 as of this moment. I haven't put up the antenna yet, but I also have the option of adding a HD tuner card to a Media Center PC. I just want to know what TiVo's going to add to the S3 before I make my decision.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Yeah, I don't have a HD tv yet, but I've been monitoring both S3 and the HR20 for future purchases. It looked like it was going to be a very tough decsion at some point, because I really do like tivo, and MRV/tivo2go are nice but I also like Directv a lot. But if they don't end up offering those features along with fact that they got rid of lifetime, then tivo has made the decision for me.

I'd rather pay less for a dvr that will most definitely work w/ the provider I choose (directv), vs. pay more and have it be a crapshoot if cable card even works to begin with, and then have to worry about the cable company switching to SDV.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I just looked at the photos, the full review isn't posted yet.

Anyone know if there is a photo with that Hard drive connector pulled?

It is an intresting drive connection area... it looks like a molded SATA connector (power and interface), but that doesnt mean it is proprietary on the drive itself.

I did notice the old style power connector though on the drive....

And the MPEG-4 Chip.... it appears to be the same model as the one in the HR20


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I just looked at the photos, the full review isn't posted yet.
> 
> Anyone know if there is a photo with that Hard drive connector pulled?
> 
> ...


I was referencing this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4360576&&#post4360576

That post contains a link to WD's site which contains info on the connector http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/accessories.asp?ProdID=74



> And the MPEG-4 Chip.... it appears to be the same model as the one in the HR20


I noticed that as well. I thought that was interesting.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Here you go, good shot of the drive:

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/Inside-7.jpg

Tons of pics here: http://www.tivolovers.com/Photos/Series3-Review/


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Thanks, but that is the one I saw the first time.

I am intrested in what is underneath that molded SATA connector... to see if is proprietary on the drive, or if TiVo just opted to use a molded connector.

Edit: just saw your other reply (on the preivous page with the WD Link.... thanks)
Now seeing that is just a more "secure" connection, not a big deal for "hacking" purposes to increase the hard drive size.

Other then you may be "stuck" with Western Digital....

I do find it intresting though that DirecTV partnered with Seagate, and TiVo with Western Digital...

What happened to Maxtor?


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Thanks, but that is the one I saw the first time.
> 
> I am intrested in what is underneath that molded SATA connector... to see if is proprietary on the drive, or if TiVo just opted to use a molded connector.
> 
> ...


That's good news. So does this connector work with other drives? It was mentioned that you might need need a new connector if you swap drives.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

I've known TiVo from both angles, as an integrated DVR with DirecTV and as a standalone. I much prefer integrated. The HMO options that some people are ga-ga over don't do a whole lot for me. Dual tuners, DD5.1 audio, HD capability, and the idea of doing that through one provider trumps all for me anyway.

That's TiVos Achilles heel. In most cases, it's third party. If something goes wrong with it, you can't call your programming provider. Now, that will change when Comcast and Cox deploy integrated units, but with standalone, you "stand alone".

I've found that, most of the time, satellite is first to deploy the features I want most and cable plays catch up. The fact that cable is just now getting TiVo confirms that. But that said, I find no use for a lot of things other TiVo users treasure. I shut Suggestions off and I prefer the D-TiVos because the cartoonish interface is minimalized.

TiVo was my first DVR, but I find myself willing to try new things. If TiVo comes up with something truly compelling, I could be lured back.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

skaeight said:


> That's good news. So does this connector work with other drives? It was mentioned that you might need need a new connector if you swap drives.


That connector only appears to be for Western Digital.
So if you want to put in another brand, you would have to replace your cable.. which shouldn't be a big deal.

Also looks like you can order that cable, so you can connect it to your PC


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What happened to Maxtor?


Maxtor was purchased by Seagate.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> Maxtor was purchased by Seagate.


Ahh... I forgot about that...


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

skaeight said:


> Actually, $49.99 for TC+ includes locals. There isn't even an extra $2 charge.


Hmm, you guys are correct. I used to be charged a separate five bucks for local channels, but it isn't on my bill anymore. I guess that's included now. I'll edit my post.

As for the cable cards: comcast charges $5 for the first card and $11.95 for each additional one.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

I've never used SATA drives, have there been problems w/ them the connectors being knocked loose?

Anyways, my whole point in even mentioning the eSATA and the prop SATA connector was just to show that the S3 isn't any farther ahead than the HR20, which I just can't believe.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

batguano said:


> Hmm, you guys are correct. I used to be charged a separate five bucks for local channels, but it isn't on my bill anymore. I guess that's included now. I'll edit my post.
> 
> As for the cable cards: comcast charges $5 for the first card and $11.95 for each additional one.


SERIOUS????? $12 for the 2nd one?
Gosh what do they charge for a 3rd and 4th (if you have two T3s or more multiple HD CableCard TV's ?)

Yikes... Is that per month or a one time fee?


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

Ha, also to add fuel to the fire, there are _RUMORS_, and I stress this is a rumor, that Tivo won't be offering the MSD of 6.95 on the S3.

----EDIT-----

See my post a couple posts down. This only applies to units bought directly through tivo.com.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

skaeight said:


> I've never used SATA drives, have there been problems w/ them the connectors being knocked loose?
> 
> Anyways, my whole point in even mentioning the eSATA and the prop SATA connector was just to show that the S3 isn't any farther ahead than the HR20, which I just can't believe.


It is fair comparisons... so thanks for pointing it out...
If it is a fact of the unit, it is a fact for discussion.

The initial SATA drives and cables, had some issues with them falling off.
But honestly, it is not a "major" critical issue...


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> SERIOUS????? $12 for the 2nd one?
> Gosh what do they charge for a 3rd and 4th (if you have two T3s or more multiple HD CableCard TV's ?)
> 
> Yikes... Is that per month or a one time fee?


per.....friggin....month.....:eek2:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

batguano said:


> per.....friggin....month.....:eek2:


Wow..

So $12.95 for the TiVo Service Fee
Then $16.95 for the Cable Card Service Fee
So $29.90 just for fees on top of your cable-co package fee...

I know it will be different for each "city" and different carriers.
But... still


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

I called the local cable company about 6 months ago to ask about cablecards. They told me I'd have to buy one from them, I believe it was somewhere around $150. They did not offer rentals. I don't know if that's changed, and don't really care enough to waste 10 minutes finding out.

Also I found a little more info on the MSD, and it appears that if you were to go to tivo.com right now and buy one, you have to buy service at the same time, so you either prepay or commit to a year of service. Boxes bought in this manner will not be given the MSD. If you wait a week and then go out and buy just the box at retail, MSD will apply if applicable.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

skaeight said:


> Ha, also to add fuel to the fire, there are _RUMORS_, and I stress this is a rumor, that Tivo won't be offering the MSD of 6.95 on the S3.


From what I see, that applies to units bought through TiVo.com, but you would be eligible for MSD with units bought through retail outlets.

Sorry, I see you corrected the previous post, but I don't have the option to delete this post.


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

bidger said:


> From what I see, that applies to units bought through TiVo.com, but you would be eligible for MSD with units bought through retail outlets.


I guess I should edit my original post. See the post above yours.


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## munangst (Sep 1, 2006)

batguano said:


> As for the cable cards: comcast charges $5 for the first card and $11.95 for each additional one.


That's not true in all areas...I called our local Comcast affiliate (Pittsburgh, PA) and they said that they charge the same rental fee for CableCARDs as for a digital decoder box, $5.99/mo per card. And, if your base digital plan includes a digital box, you can choose to get a CableCARD instead of the digital box for no additional fee.

Now there's just the problems of the TiVo subscription fee, and no access to ON DEMAND (which is pretty nice, especially if you subscribe to HBO or other premiums...basically everything HBO is showing that month available whenever you want to watch it for no charge).


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

munangst said:


> That's not true in all areas...I called our local Comcast affiliate (Pittsburgh, PA) and they said that they charge the same rental fee for CableCARDs as for a digital decoder box, $5.99/mo per card. And, if your base digital plan includes a digital box, you can choose to get a CableCARD instead of the digital box for no additional fee.


Right, I should have been more clear: this is what Comcast told me the rates were for my area--San Francisco.



> Now there's just the problems of the TiVo subscription fee, and no access to ON DEMAND (which is pretty nice, especially if you subscribe to HBO or other premiums...basically everything HBO is showing that month available whenever you want to watch it for no charge).


That is a drag. I guess we need to wait for CableCard 2.0 for that stuff.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> ...


Earl, deep down you gotta be drooling a little for a Series3 to play with ...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sixto said:


> Earl, deep down you gotta be drooling a little for a Series3 to play with ...


Honestly... I am intrested in trying it first hand... but it definently isn't to drool level
The only candidate is one family friend (they have HDTV and Comcast).
Everyone else I know, either doesn't have HDTV, or doesn't use Comcast

Actually what I am finding amazing, is the number of people that are really ticked off at it... for stuff that we have known for a while.

And the number of people that are now going to switch to SAT (guess it balances out all those that where going to switch to T3 and CableCo)


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl, yep, surprised me as well with all of the negative banter about missing features. Geez, I should be the first to complain since I had MRV as one of my main reasons for switching from DirecTV HDTivo's.

I spent many hours today swaying back-and-forth, but finally decided the heck with DirecTV. I want to be bleeding edge. Want cool features. Price really not an issue. TiVo just seems like they really want/need to impress customers with their slick features (to keep growing as a company).

Yep, they don't have MRV & TTG now but they'll figure it out (with CableLabs).

What also swayed me is that I just installed a "real" TiVo (not the DirecTV variety) for my sister and the on-line scheduling, photos, mp3's, fantasy football (for the kids) were just really neat features to play with. Honestly, candidly, I just can't believe that the DirecTV development team is that much worried about any of this. They're still busy getting out bugs and figuring out how to do dual buffers. 

Ah, look, I've had DirecTV for many years, they've been great, but now I'm going to try something different and hopefully "cooler". We'll see ...


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

What is "MSD"? Thanks.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Multi-System Discount


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## zh.guitar (Sep 14, 2006)

Can you use a Tivo S3 with Direct Tv ?

I would like to have NFL ST with dual buffers.


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

zh.guitar said:


> Can you use a Tivo S3 with Direct Tv ?
> 
> I would like to have NFL ST with dual buffers.


Nope.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Have had the Series3 since Friday. With Cablecards (no problem) since this afternoon.

The Series3 is sweet!

Dual buffers with the baseball & football games this afternoon was great.

Everything is the same as the HR10 but faster and cooler (online scheduling works, the photo/mp3 app is neat, ...). Also nice to have access to all of the local access channels.

So far so good ...


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## batguano (Aug 17, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Have had the Series3 since Friday. With Cablecards (no problem) since this afternoon.
> 
> The Series3 is sweet!
> 
> ...


Who's your cable provider? How much are they charging you for cablecards?

How does picture quality (both HD and SD) compare with DirecTV?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

batguano said:


> Who's your cable provider? How much are they charging you for cablecards?
> 
> How does picture quality (both HD and SD) compare with DirecTV?


Cablevision.

$1.25/month for cablecards (was $46 install charge)

Picture quality has been perfect.

Love it.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Cablevision.
> 
> $1.25/month for cablecards (was $46 install charge)
> 
> ...


The cablecards must be better than that POS Scientific Atlanta HD box my friend has from Cablevision. The picture quality it puts out to his tv is what I would define as "tv in which a rabid monkey has flung its feces at the screen".


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Series3 photo app is neat. Had a directory on my PC (with a ton of subdirectories by topic) with every photo I've ever taken. With one click the Series3 is now enabled to see every photo on the HD Plasma. My wife and kids loved it ... a family history now available on the wall.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Just figured that I'd give a quick update on my experiences with the Series3. Have one Series3 (for myself), and still have two HR10's for the wife and kids.

Was going to upgrade "my" HR10 (third) to play with the HR20 but with all of the posts in this forum have decided to wait (may never upgrade). Very tough to finally cut the cord with DirecTV.

I've now had the Series3 since 9/17/2006. Totally moved over from the HR10 but still run the HR10 (third) as a backup (right next to the Series3). Over the seven weeks, I've recorded 100+ shows with 100% accuracy with every season pass. Luckily, I've not needed to go back to the HR10 for any missed show. The only problem over the 7 weeks is that I had two partial recordings at the very beginning, but luckily both were non-critical one-time shows.

I have 12 season passes, 10 that record weekly, and two (Letterman & Leno) that record every night. All have recorded flawlessly.

As a comparison to the HR10, I can now safely say that after 7 weeks that the Series3 has all of the functionality of the HR10 ... plus ...

There are two reasons why I've not yet cut the cord with DirecTV:

1) NFL Sunday Ticket - I could live without Sunday Ticket but the kids have declared that the other two HR10's MUST stay until after week-17 of the NFL season - have no idea what I'll do next year.

2) I'm still intrigued by the HR20 if DirecTV could mimic the Series3. This would solve my Sunday Ticket problem for next year.

Now the situation ...

For me, there are 6 differentiating features of the Series3 and 5 more features that I'm expecting:

1) Photo/MP3 application. I've now become addicted to the MP3 application. I've now ripped almost every CD I own to the main PC in the house. Now from the Series3, at the click of a few buttons, I can listen to any song/album that I ever purchased. Just perfect, haven't used the CD player in two months. It's not clear if the HR20 will ever get this app. As I mentioned previously, the family also loves the photo app. The entire family history is now available on the Series3.

2) Internal HD upgrade. As soon as the Seagate DB35 750GB upgrade is available, I'll be replacing the internal drive. I have no interest in adding an external drive. I don't want two drives running since it just increases the single points of failure. Also would much prefer to not have an external gadget with more power and more room required. Not sure if the HR20 will ever be able to be upgraded internally.

3) Wishlists. While I never use Suggestions, I've now noticed that I absolutely use Wishlists about once/twice a week to look for shows (over the next two weeks) with certain actors that I have in the Wishlists. I then setup those shows to record. Not sure that the HR20 can do this. As an example, Meatloaf just came out with a new album, added him to Wishlists, found all the shows that he was going to be on in next two weeks, and bingo, recorded them all (in HD!).

4) Online scheduling. A few times over the past 7 weeks, I've been away on business and used the Yahoo TV connection to TiVo to record a special event that I wasn't home to setup. Yes, I could have called the wife to record but it was so easy to just do it myself over the internet. Not sure that the HR20 will ever get this capability.

5) Dual Buffers. We all know the details on this. Well, I use Dual buffers continuously when watching any live television. 100% required. Would never consider the HR20 without it. I've consciously tried to track how often I use dual buffers, to understand if I could live without it, and noticed that I use it every few minutes whenever casually watching TV to bounce around and not miss anything.

6) Remote. I love the peanut remote. Would very much miss it.

Now the features I'm expecting:

7) FIOS. I would expect that within the next 12 months that FIOS TV will be available in my area, maybe very soon - adjoining town just got it but not sure when I'll have access. With the Series3 working with FIOS TV, and FIOS having unlimited bandwidth, it seems like FIOS may have more capacity and better quality then DirecTV. Yep, they need to deliver but seems likely.

8) MRV. Multi-room viewing would be so helpful. Within the past few days, TiVo had a glitch where some of us were starting to see other units in the house from the Series3. It appears that this feature is coming soon. It would be so useful to be able to watch shows on other Series3's in the house, and especially be able to watch my shows in the home theater where the kids hang out. The house is already fully wired for Gigabit ethernet to connect everything.

9) TTG. Not sure we'll ever see this on the Series3 but if we do if would be awesome. Yes, DirecTV has talked about DirecTV2Go but at least it appears that Tivo already has the code done and they just need Cablelabs to approve it.

10) TiVoCast. It will be cool to start getting internet content on the Series3. Seems that this capability will be available in the next few weeks with the Fall Update on the Series3. Not much content yet but seems intriguing.

And now for the most important (!) and the key feature of all-time.

11) Amazon Unbox / Netflix. If TiVo expands TiVoCast to include direct movie/DVD downloads then with all of the features above they would have created the ultimate box. If I had the ability to get any movie/DVD content to the Series3 then it would be utopia, especially after the Seagate DB35 750GB drive is available. I then would have the ability to get any TV show, Movie/DVD, Photo. or Song (MP3) immediately at the click of a button.

Well, that's it for now ... just figured I'd post the latest ...

Along with the Series3, still have DirecTV in the house. If DirecTV could make me more comfortable with all of the items listed above then I'd stay ... yep, I'm staying until the end of the NFL season anyway ... but I'm not sure how much longer ... will probably at least wait thru CES to see what gets announced.

And Earl, keep up the great work, couldn't imagine dealing with all the grief you deal with in this forum ... take care ...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sixto said:


> And Earl, keep up the great work, couldn't imagine dealing with all the grief you deal with in this forum ... take care ...


Thank you... take care, and if you decide to get an HR20... We'll be here.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

Sixto said:


> Along with the Series3, still have DirecTV in the house. If DirecTV could make me more comfortable with all of the items listed above then I'd stay ... yep, I'm staying until the end of the NFL season anyway ... but I'm not sure how much longer ... will probably at least wait thru CES to see what gets announced.


SIXTO:

Great review of Series 3. Thanks. Now - I assume you are using cable AND D*? You have your Series 3 doing analog recordings of D* or is it connected to cable?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

jaywdetroit said:


> Now - I assume you are using cable AND D*? You have your Series 3 doing analog recordings of D* or is it connected to cable?


For the Series3, it has two cablecards installed, box has one cable to Cablevision. 100% digital service.

For the HR10's, they are both hooked to a multi-switch to traditional DirecTV.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

The Seagate 750GB DB35 drive became available recently so my Series3 now has 98 hours HD (927 hours SD). The Series3 has not missed a beat (not one single issue). Love it.

My comments from 11/11 (4 posts above) are still mostly the same (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=718504&postcount=82) with the Series3 vs HR20 comparison and I'm expecting TiVoCast soon along hopefully with MRV. Yep, the cracking of the TTG DRM recently may slow things down a bit.

Did listen to the TiVo CEO speak (online) at the UBS conference yesterday and his primary focus was broadband, which is good. CES should be interesting.

As I contemplate what to do about NFL Sunday Ticket next year ...

What is the cheapest way to just acquire NFL Sunday Ticket each year?

Is it possible to just subscribe to the most least expensive package ($29.99) plus NFL Sunday Ticket plus NFL Sunday Ticket Superfan? Maybe I also need the HD package as well? What would be the absolutely least expensive way to acquire just NFL Sunday Ticket from September thru December each year. I'd also upgrade one of my HR10's to the HR20.

Thanks.


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## SepticDeath (Dec 7, 2006)

Like you, I seriously doubt that the hr-20-750 will ever get it right, mostly because right to me is like the Tivo, and we all know DTV's interface will never be like Tivo's, thats what makes Tivo, Tivo. Even if they can get the device to do the same things, it will never be the same. But to help answer your question about September-December each year, I do know that you can put your service on vacation every December without any charges being aquired until you take it off vacation in September. To get the Superfan, you have to have the HD package as well. Just like to get the NFL you also have to have a basic package. As for upgrading your h10 for a h20, since your sticking with the Tivo interface, why would you want to fumble with the h20's ass backwards interface? Seems to me you would just be reminded every september how bad it is, and have to learn it all over again? 

I guess my opinion is my opinion, I'm intitled to it before you flame me


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

SepticDeath said:


> I guess my opinion is my opinion, I'm intitled to it before you flame me


Not interested in flaming you. Your opinion is perfectly valid. I hope you feel the same about mine --

I had not considered an S3 TiVo because my local cable company has been so poor so long, I doubt they would be able to deal with cable card issues. [This is the unluckiest cable outfit I've ever heard of. At one point they were part of the doomed AT&T cable experiment; at another they were one of the primary sources of income for the Rigas bros. of Adelphia]. I have one R10 (DirecTivo) and one HR20.

Truth is, I didn't expect it, but I really like the UI of the HR20 better. I like that there are fewer keypresses for things I do frequently. I like Picture in List. I like the peace and quiet. I miss the bullet-proof-ness, but I have confidence that it will get there. From what I can see, the HR20 after only 3 months in wide distribution is more stable than its predecessor R15 was after a year. I think that D* is taking this extremely seriously.

Even if I were inclined to go back to cable, I'd have my concerns about TiVo the company. Two years ago they were the industry darling, and today, have they ever had a profitable quarter? How long is it going to be possible to fend off subsidized DVRs from cable and satellite providers? I'm not trying to intentionally bag on them just to bag on them, but I wouldn't buy stock in the company just yet.

I think the best thing would be if S3 Tivo stayed around to keep the others innovating, but in the end I just don't know how long they can keep it up.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

As referenced in my previous analysis (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=718504&postcount=82), the deciding factors have been outside the interface (Photos, MP3s, Internal upgrade, Wishlists, On-line scheduling, Dual Buffers, Remote) and the future (FiOS, MRV, TTG, TiVoCast, DVD's)

Now just trying to figure out how to most cost effectively have both cable w/Series3 and also NFL Sunday Ticket (from September thru December).

It's appears I'd need:

Basic Package: $29.99 (Family Choice)
HD Package: $9.99
Upgrade existing HR10 to HR20 for free
Usual cost of NFL Sunday Ticket & NFL Sunday Ticket Superfan


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

If your looking for an S3 I suggest you head over to our sister site and check out the S3 forums so you know the skinny as you make your decision. Not sure when TTG and all the other cool features that make a Tivo a Tivo will be turned on for the the S3.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Thank you... take care, and if you decide to get an HR20... We'll be here.


An HR20 is on the way ... install 1/22 (trying to move it up) ... gonna sit next to the Series3 ... let them competition begin!


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Thank you... take care, and if you decide to get an HR20... We'll be here.


Well, I've decided to give the HR20 a chance. Have loved DirecTV for years ... my comparison (Series3 vs DirecTV) was above: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=718504&postcount=82)

I've had the Series3 for 3 months. Loved it. Had my HR10 next to it for backup. Never needed the backup.

The family had two other HR10's. Was going to convert the other two HR10's to Series3's, turn off DirecTV, and deal with Sunday Ticket next year ...

DirecTV gave me a great deal to stay. Got two HR20's (upgrades to HR10's) and the new Slimline dish for free. Figured free is a good reason to really give the HR20 a test drive against the Series3.

The installer was great yesterday. Easily replaced the old 3LNB dish with the new Slimline dish and the signal on all 5 satellites is 96-98 so hopefully rain-fade won't me much of a problem.

I started yesterday by officially turning off the back-up HR10 (for the Series3) and replaced it on my DirecTV account with the first HR20. Played with the HR20 for the past day, and today (on vacation) decided to take a chance (risky) and add the second HR20 to the Family Room. I did leave the Family Room HR10 on the account as backup (for now). If the family has any issues with the second HR20 we'll have the Family Room HR10 as backup.

Just gave the family a lesson on the HR20 (I'm a whole 1-day experienced!) and now the testing begins.

So far, it's been a very interesting 24-hours. At times I really miss the Series3, at other times I love the HR20. I've had zero problems so far. The HR20's are hooked up with component cables (not HDMI) and I have no external antenna, so hopefully this is a trouble free environment.

I've give this a week or so and then write-up a more thorough comparision but here's my quick take of the situation so far after 24 hours:

Pros:

MPEG4 NY HD locals look great.

Love the picture-in-guide that shows in upper right during all menu operations. Wife was just impressed that you can still watch TV while I was setting up all the family season passes.

The mix channels finally can be actively controlled (neat).

The "What's Hot" channel impressed the kids.

Looking forward to DirecTV 10 & 11 for the extra HD channels. I'm losing all faith that Cablevision has any bandwidth left.

Like it that the Guide filter can show only certain channels (like HDTV only). At first I hated the two-button-push Guide but now I like the two-button Guide because it lets me always filter the guide. Would be nice to move the HDTV selection to the top.

Family likes the caller-id showing on screen. Seems to work every time.

Haven't played with photos yet but did get the network working easily. Photo's on Series3 was easy. Need to compare.

The satellite signal strength display is so much better then the HR10. Can see all 32 transponders at once (and all in high 90's).

Cons (vs Series3):

Can not power off the TV and the Denon receiver with 1-click (mentioned in another thread).

Really miss the TiVo peanut remote. I guess I'll get used to the new RC34 remote. I hope I do. I've been using the Peanut remote without looking for years-and-years.

I've been struggling with the settings for season passes. I need to get used to finding all of the screens. Seems harder then Series3 but maybe it just takes some getting used to.

Would love to pop my 750GB DB35 drive from my Series3 into the HR20 but will wait. Assume I'll use the eSATA connection when I do it.

Funny ... the Series3 is now the backup to the HR20 ... roles are a changing ...

That's it for now ...

And about to place the 500GB HR10 on e-bay!


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