# UPS or Surge Protect Poll



## ctsmd (Aug 9, 2007)

I'm curious if you guys and gals are using a UPS or just a surge protector on DVRs. 

My thoughts are a UPS will allow some run time before power is abruptly cut off so may be good for short outages and also provide surge protection.

Or just use a surge protector and DVR will just loss power on any interuption.

Or other option Nothing.



So who uses what?


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

UPS all the way....


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

UPS will do an OK job of protecting you from brownouts, but unless you get an expensive one it still relies on the DVRs power supply for when the voltages are low or hi, or when the UPS transitions to battery and back again. They do tend to have surge protection built in, but its the same technology as a surge suppressor if it's not an "online" UPS system (i.e. thousands of dollars). Even a voltage boost/trim UPS is usually very expensive and is still not an online system typically anyway and it's functionality can be found in home theater power conditioners that aren't UPSs.

Since the UPS can't tell the DVR to power down safely anyway when it dies, it still goes down hard when the battery dies during extened outages anyway.

I guess my point is since UPSs are designed for computers, and the DVR can't communicate with it, the money is probably better spent on a better quality A/V power conditioner than it is on a UPS that has computer features you're paying for that you can't use anyway in an A/V environment.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

UPS for sure.

Where's the poll?


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

I use UPSs on each of my 3 HD DVRs. I do not expect them to keep running for hours on end during an extended power outage but they do keep them from abruptly shutting down in very short power outages. It avoids those shutdowns and restarts that will occur even if the power blips for a couple seconds. Really stinks when that happens and it's recording something. With the UPS, it keeps chugging along during those little blips.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

I will disagree strongly with xzi. The great advantage of a UPS is that the DVR will continue to run uninterrupted when the power goes out for a short time. Momentary power glitches (under a second) are frequent killers of DVRs and their hard drives.

The difference between the inexpensive and more expensive UPS models is that the "line interactive" models will regulate the voltage better, but DVRs are essentially computers and have switching power supplies that can handle this ok.

When the UPS battery gives out, which will typically be 45 minutes or longer later, it shuts down cleanly which the DVR can deal with. The power won't get restored until the AC has stabilized for 10 seconds or so.

Bottom line is that a UPS will extend the life of your DVR, especially if your AC power is prone to "glitches". A surge protector will do none of this.


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## rkicklighter (Nov 29, 2007)

Living in the lightning belt.......UPS's on virtually everything electronic in my house.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

Why would I spend money to protect a device I don't own?
Recording TV isn't THAT critical to me.

Put me down for nothing...


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## Chuck W (Mar 26, 2002)

Absolutely a UPS. I have them on all 3 of my DVR's. I actually don't have many power problems, at all, but the few I've had, have come at an inopportune times. As sbl said, keeping the box running thru the short power outages and even allowing it to power off via the UPS, is a lot easier on the DVR.

I only have a small UPS on my DVR, which will keep it running for maybe 10-15 minutes, max, but that is usally enough time for the power to come back, in many of my cases.



Redlinetire said:


> Why would I spend money to protect a device I don't own?
> Recording TV isn't THAT critical to me.
> 
> Put me down for nothing...


I do it to save the harddrive and what I have recorded. THAT is the most important to me. Besides, even tho you don't own the box, the hassles of exchanging a dead box and waiting for a new one, thus not having ANY Directv, would be the most annoying for me.


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## GlennJ84 (Sep 27, 2007)

Call me crazy, but generally both are neccessary. Most UPS's aren't rated that high in surge protection. Cheap surge protectors can be rated in the thousands of Joules and most UPS's are only rated in the low 3 to 4 hundreds. Why not have both. Surge protector to UPS to Devices.

My $0.02
Peace Out


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## bpratt (Nov 24, 2005)

Surge protectors on two ReplayTV since 1999, added two HR10-250s in 2004 and two HR21-700s in 2008. I have never used a UPS and have never had a single disk failure on any of my DVRs.


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## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

UPS all the way! Here in FL we often have brief outages and the UPS will just coast the DVR through these without a glitch. Without the TV on mine will last 45 minutes - keeping the hard drive spinning safely. It'll even go 15 minutes with the TV on! 
I originally put one on the PC to avoid all the hassles and liked it so much I added one to the DVR/TV set up. Pretty cheap insurance for about $100 bucks. In all the years it was on the HR-10 it only reached it's limit once during a 4 hour outage.


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## RegGeek (Mar 14, 2007)

I also use a UPS. I disagree with the comment about not protecting something you don't own. I for one would rather NOT have my recordings lost because the box dies. 

But my DVR really isn't the main reason I have a UPS, the TV is. I have a DLP. It was recommended to me on several occasions that my TV will be much happier in the long run if the cooling fan is always allowed to run when turning it off. Should the TV be on when a power failure occurs the UPS allows me to turn of the TV while it's still recieiving power and can do a proper shut down.


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

I have UPS's on a few things in the house so far like PC's and my PI for my SWM. 

I will be adding them for my DVR's but I am been picking one up at a time when I get the money for them.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

RegGeek said:


> I also use a UPS. I disagree with the comment about not protecting something you don't own. I for one would rather NOT have my recordings lost because the box dies.


Unless you backup the drive every night you run the risk of 'losing your recordings' - it's *FAR* more likely that the box will die due to some internal component failure as opposed to being fried by the electrical system.

And when 99.99% of what you record is available via DVD or the internet, it makes no sense - convenience or money wise - to buy a UPS to "protect" a piece of equipment you don't own.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Redlinetire said:


> it's *FAR* more likely that the box will die due to some internal component failure as opposed to being fried by the electrical system.


it's not about being "fried" by the electrical system... it's about not shutting a hard drive down properly... if there is a bad sector on these hard drives, they will format automatically...


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## rlnoonan (Jan 6, 2007)

As you can see from my sig below, I have one setup with a UPS and one with only surge/conditioning. The setup with the APC was done more with the DLP TV in mind than the DVR. My thinking was that if I was watching the TV (so the bulb was nice and hot) when the power went out, I'd like to be able to shut if off and have the fan still work to cool the bulb. If the power went out and the fan couldn't run, there would still be a possibility for damage to occur due to the heat. 

On my setup with the Panamax I wasn't too worried about being able to maintain power when it goes out because the LCD TV doesn't have the whole "hot bulb" issue. The Panamax does a great job of protecting/conditioning the power and I don't experience the "short glitches" very often at all. So on that setup I felt the UPS wasn't needed as much.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I have a UPS on all my systems (living room set-up, HT, computer). I've been using them for at least 5 years.

I don't care if I own the equipment or not, I want to be able to use it. We don't have power outages very often, but when they occur, I'm ready.

Last summer, we lost power for about 30 minutes. We continued to watch TV as if nothing happened. This only happens once or twice per year and I like knowing that not only is my equipment protected better from quick shutdowns, but it also has surge protection and allows me to continue watching TV if I choose during a power outage.

If the power is out too long (which hasn't happened yet) and the UPS' battery gets low, I can just shut down my equipment correctly.

Seems like a no brainer to me. Especially since it's not just about the DVR, but also about my TV, receiver, projector and everything else that I DO own.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

AirRocker said:


> it's not about being "fried" by the electrical system... it's about not shutting a hard drive down properly... if there is a bad sector on these hard drives, they will format automatically...


'Improper shutdown' is not the root cause of bad sectors - heat and age are.

Just look at the postings on this forum. Most reports of an 'automatic reformat' is after a software push to the DVR, which is done with a proper shutdown. Again, a UPS will do nothing to prevent that...


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Seems like a no brainer to me. Especially since it's not just about the DVR, but also about my TV, receiver, projector and everything else that I DO own.


If I was that worried about protecting my electrical equipment from damage, I would just unplug it from the wall and wait for the storm to pass! :lol:


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

I use UPS's for convenience. With Florida Flicker and Flash, I mean FPL, our power is constantly interrupted, momentarily, many times a week. Using them is almost a necessity to eliminate the boot up time.


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## txtommy (Dec 30, 2006)

UPS on almost every electronic device in the house, 8 units total and not the cheap ones.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I have a UPS on all my DVR's, computers, network hardware and any TV that cost more then $1500.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Redlinetire said:


> Why would I spend money to protect a device I don't own?


Because at the very least it will cost you $20 shipping to replace it?

This assumes that it fails completely and not partially in which case it make take hours of your time to convince DIRECTV that it needs to be replaced.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Redlinetire said:


> If I was that worried about protecting my electrical equipment from damage, I would just unplug it from the wall and wait for the storm to pass! :lol:


An excellent policy that unfortunately assumes that when a storm comes, you are there to unplug it.


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## feschiver (Dec 19, 2006)

Im with GLENJ84 I use a UPs for my DVRs and low amp devices and a good AV surge divice for my tv


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## cmtar (Nov 16, 2005)

I say surge protector


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Nothing here, I have the protection plan...


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

sbl said:


> I will disagree strongly with xzi. The great advantage of a UPS is that the DVR will continue to run uninterrupted when the power goes out for a short time. Momentary power glitches (under a second) are frequent killers of DVRs and their hard drives.
> 
> The difference between the inexpensive and more expensive UPS models is that the "line interactive" models will regulate the voltage better, but DVRs are essentially computers and have switching power supplies that can handle this ok.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying it's a waste of money. You don't need a full blown UPS, even a $100 one, to get the same protection you get from a $20 surge protector anyway. They both offer those same $500,000 equipment guarentees regardless.

And UPSs do NOT shut down cleanly when they die in outages. They just turn off. The only way to shut down cleanly is to have USB interfaces on the UPS have the guest operating sytems shutdown on a low battery. DVRs can't do this anyway.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

xzi said:


> And UPSs do NOT shut down cleanly when they die in outages. They just turn off. The only way to shut down cleanly is to have USB interfaces on the UPS have the guest operating sytems shutdown on a low battery. DVRs can't do this anyway.


Sorry, you misunderstood me. A UPS does shut down the power cleanly in that it turns the power off and leaves it off until the power is again stable, a minimum of 10 seconds or so. DVRs can handle this fine. It's the off-on-off-on within a second, that frequently accompanies a power failure (or restore), that kills hard drives.

I am not claiming that a UPS will do a "system shutdown" on a DVR, but that is not necessary as these are designed to survive having the plug pulled.


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## txtommy (Dec 30, 2006)

Redlinetire said:


> If I was that worried about protecting my electrical equipment from damage, I would just unplug it from the wall and wait for the storm to pass! :lol:


Living in SE Texas, we'd have to keep most everything unplugged since there is hardly a day that we don't receive power surges or interruptions either from a storm or other source. We've got 8 large UPS units that each protect multiple devices. They've more than paid for themselves several times over.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> Because at the very least it will cost you $20 shipping to replace it?
> 
> This assumes that it fails completely and not partially in which case it make take hours of your time to convince DIRECTV that it needs to be replaced.


Spending $300 to _maybe_ save $20 doesn't sound like a smart bet to me.

Like I said before, most reports on this forum of failures that cause one to lose recordings is an overnight reboot on a software upgrade.

Unless you backup your DVR daily, you're just as likely to lose recordings as those of us without a UPS. (Except if you have Florida Power and Light evidently :lol: ) - or live in Texas!


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I use both (Actually have multiple Surge Protectors).


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

harsh said:


> An excellent policy that unfortunately assumes that when a storm comes, you are there to unplug it.


If I was that worried about my equipment, I would get a rider added to my homeowner's insurance.

You can get $10K of coverage for about $100/year. Still far cheaper than a UPS.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

xzi said:


> UPS will do an OK job of protecting you from brownouts, but unless you get an expensive one it still relies on the DVRs power supply for when the voltages are low or hi, or when the UPS transitions to battery and back again. They do tend to have surge protection built in, but its the same technology as a surge suppressor if it's not an "online" UPS system (i.e. thousands of dollars). Even a voltage boost/trim UPS is usually very expensive and is still not an online system typically anyway and it's functionality can be found in home theater power conditioners that aren't UPSs.
> 
> Since the UPS can't tell the DVR to power down safely anyway when it dies, it still goes down hard when the battery dies during extened outages anyway.
> 
> I guess my point is since UPSs are designed for computers, and the DVR can't communicate with it, the money is probably better spent on a better quality A/V power conditioner than it is on a UPS that has computer features you're paying for that you can't use anyway in an A/V environment.


I couldn't disagree with this post more. That's complete nonsense to suggest that UPSs are designed solely for computers and not suited for DVRs&#8230;. and a power conditioner is not at all necessary for a DVR or a computer. Additionally, the above info about how a UPS does not help for voltage swings is incorrect. Even the low end APC units detect voltage dips and rises and switches over to battery backup to maintain the correct voltage. The above post is so full of misinformation, that it would be wise to completely disregard it.

All that is needed for a DVR is a low capacity UPS unit like the entry level APC 325VA to 350VA units that can be had starting at around $30 if you watch for sales. An entry level APC unit will give you about thirty minutes to an hour of backup time, and will rid you of all the reboots that are caused by momentary power interruptions, in addition to kicking in when there voltage swings on the power line. The only reason to go more expensive than that for a DVR is to get a longer backup capacity.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Spanky_Partain said:


> Nothing here, I have the protection plan...


That's great. What does that protection plan do for you when there is a one second voltage dip on your line and your DVR spends 10 minutes rebooting right in the middle of that one show you didn't want to miss? Do you just call up customer service, tell them you have the protection plan, and they schedule another broadcast of the show with the network to give you another recording opportunity?


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## mhendrixsr (Nov 17, 2007)

My philosophy is "anything with a hard drive gets a UPS"... and other devices that I don't want affected by short-term power outages/interruptions. This includes the 3 DVR's, the PS3, 1 of the LCD's, a DVD recorder and the SWM in the attic. (On more than one occasion I've had uninterrupted recordings where others in the neighborhood didn't.) In addition, all network routing equipment and the cordless phone (base) gets backed up via UPS. Everything in the AV room also runs through Monster Voltage Stabilizer/Reference Power Source equipment. Generally the rule should be to over-protect and don't buy cheap stuff.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

xzi said:


> I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying it's a waste of money. You don't need a full blown UPS, even a $100 one, to get the same protection you get from a $20 surge protector anyway. They both offer those same $500,000 equipment guarentees regardless.


That's nonsensical advice. A $30 UPS offers you a lot more than a $20 surge protector... namely backup power in the event of short power interruptions and voltage swings.



xzi said:


> And UPSs do NOT shut down cleanly when they die in outages. They just turn off. The only way to shut down cleanly is to have USB interfaces on the UPS have the guest operating sytems shutdown on a low battery. DVRs can't do this anyway.


This is completely irrelevant, and a really bad reason to advise against using a UPS with a DVR, and in fact, putting a DVR on a UPS will prevent many "unclean" shutdowns by virtue of the fact that short or even momentary outages or voltage dips will no longer cause an unclean shutdown of the DVR.

In my opinion, your advice on this issue is extremely flawed, and in part, just plain wrong. I would advise people reading this thread to look at the numerous other posts that disagree with you and make an educated decision to ignore your advise on this topic.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

bpratt said:


> Surge protectors on two ReplayTV since 1999, added two HR10-250s in 2004 and two HR21-700s in 2008. I have never used a UPS and have never had a single disk failure on any of my DVRs.


I've never had a UPS in my life and I've never had any power flucuation electronic device failures. I do have sure protectors on my computers, TVs, and DIRECTV equipment.


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## Karen (Oct 4, 2007)

I have a UPS on my DVR because there are a lot of momentary power outages in my area. Each time that happens, it can take several minutes for the DVR to go through the setup again. That is very annoying after awhile. If the power is out for longer than 5 minutes, I turn everything off, turn off the UPS and unplug it until the power comes back on. I don't want the UPS battery to be depleted completely just in case it's needed again right after the power comes back on.


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## txtommy (Dec 30, 2006)

Karen said:


> I have a UPS on my DVR because there are a lot of momentary power outages in my area. Each time that happens, it can take several minutes for the DVR to go through the setup again. That is very annoying after awhile. If the power is out for longer than 5 minutes, I turn everything off, turn off the UPS and unplug it until the power comes back on. I don't want the UPS battery to be depleted completely just in case it's needed again right after the power comes back on.


Same here. I lost several devices before deciding to connect everything to UPS. The UPS doesn't have to be large enough to supply power to devices for hours. Most power outages/surges in our area are just a second or two, the worst kind for hard drives in DVRs or computers. The UPS makes these unnoticeable and if the power stays off for more than a few minutes, it gives time to safely shutdown all equipment.

Sure you can get add coverage to your insurance policy for about the same price as a couple UPS units, but watch your rate climb after you file a few claims. In our area, I'd be filing claims several times a year without UPS. The UPS is my insurance.


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## eburr (Oct 18, 2007)

I'm with the crowd that has a ups for all the equipment - TV, receiver, DVR. I decided to get the UPS when I was watching a show and the power went off-on-off-on in a matter of a few seconds. That can't be good for the TV, etc.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Spanky_Partain said:


> Nothing here, I have the protection plan...


Do you have the protection plan on your TV, receiver and other equipment too?

And even if you do, for me it's more about being able to record shows and/or watch TV during a power outage than the actual protection of the equipment (although that's a nice bonus).


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Very simple here ...

If it has an operating system and a hard drive, it has a UPS. Same for the ethernet switch and the SWM Power Inserter (PI).

All five DirecTV receivers here are on a UPS. Would *never* run any other way.

If power is lost for a few seconds ... everything stays up perfectly fine ... no need to re-boot, no lost recordings, no hard crash ... works perfectly.

Very much worth the rather insignificant investment.


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

A one-second power flicker causes me a 15-minute reset. If nothing else, I'd like to avoid that. I also protect my DLP TV, computer, network, DSL modem and anything that connects to the DVRs.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

bakers12 said:


> A one-second power flicker causes me a 15-minute reset. If nothing else, I'd like to avoid that. I also protect my DLP TV, computer, network, DSL modem and anything that connects to the DVRs.


Of course!

It's a no-brainer. A very good investment.

Mandatory in this house.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

Wow, I didn't realize power was so unreliable for most of you (particularly Texas). 
Does it really go out or fluctuate that often? Holy cow...then it would certainly be worth it...

I haven't lost power since the 2003 black out. But then most major storms roll either south or north of my area...


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Redlinetire said:


> Wow, I didn't realize power was so unreliable for most of you (particularly Texas).
> Does it really go out or fluctuate that often? Holy cow...then it would certainly be worth it...
> 
> I haven't lost power since the 2003 black out. But then most major storms roll either south or north of my area...


Nope, not that often here (also Texas), but if it happens once of twice per year and I'm still able to record Lost or watch a playoff game or something else, then it's worth it. Seems like a small investment to me (all my UPS systems were bought from woot or with rebates, so I haven't paid too much for them, but they give me peace of mind), to have my equipment protected (more so than without) and it gives me the ability to use the equipment even during outages.

I just don't see the downside to a UPS. Money? Heck, I've spent probably $20,000 on all my equipment, a few hundred dollars to help protect it and enable it's usage more often, doesn't seem like much (and even if you've only spent $1000 on all your equipment, $50 for a UPS isn't much).


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Redlinetire said:


> Wow, I didn't realize power was so unreliable for most of you (particularly Texas).
> Does it really go out or fluctuate that often? Holy cow...then it would certainly be worth it...
> 
> I haven't lost power since the 2003 black out. But then most major storms roll either south or north of my area...


All it takes is a 1 second spike. Probably happens a few times a year here. And I smile every time the UPS saves the day.

UPS:
Reserves power capacity and run time for connected equipment that require battery back-up while providing surge only protection for less critical equipment
Protects connected loads from surges, spikes, lightning, and other power disturbances.


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## jaguar325 (Jan 2, 2006)

I am using auto-sensing hamsters on treadmills.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

Sixto said:


> All it takes is a 1 second spike. Probably happens a few times a year here. And I smile every time the UPS saves the day.
> 
> UPS:
> Reserves power capacity and run time for connected equipment that require battery back-up while providing surge only protection for less critical equipment
> Protects connected loads from surges, spikes, lightning, and other power disturbances.


Y'all should move out here. No jobs. But plenty of clean power! :lol: 
And all the water you could ever need...


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## RoadDawg (Apr 2, 2008)

harsh said:


> An excellent policy that unfortunately assumes that when a storm comes, you are there to unplug it.


!rolling

Another vote for a UPS.

BTW, don't forget to fill out the warrantee card with the UPS or surge protector.
If you have to file a claim because of lightning damage, and you haven't sent it in, they wont be very helpful. :nono2:


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## woodybeetle (Feb 28, 2008)

We use 1 1500 VA UPS for each 8 receiver shelf in our MDU headends. Not only are they a piece of mind issue to us, they also help to resolve the lost channel issues when the power flashes here. The use of them is not voluntary in our opinion for a commercial installation. We have had 1 incident of a surge caught by the UPS, Getting the battery replaced was a waste of time. It was faster tto actually buy new UPS and drive on


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## JMII (Jan 19, 2008)

davring said:


> I use UPS's for convenience. With Florida Flicker and Flash, I mean FPL, our power is constantly interrupted, momentarily, many times a week. Using them is almost a necessity to eliminate the boot up time.


What he said  especially in the summer during when your guaranteed an afternoon thunderstorm.

Without a UPS any tiny power flicker causes a 10 minute reboot cycle :nono: and for a device that is recording LIVE broadcasts this is clearly unacceptable.

Frankly I'm shocked (no pun intended) that people with DVRs, computers, Playstations, etc... do NOT have UPS on them :eek2: its just asking for trouble. Especially since now-a-days nothing is really "off", its just in stand-by mode and thus drawing some power. Prime example: my rear projection Sony LCD HTDV has a fan that runs to cool the bulb after the TV has been turned "off" so if the power is sudden cut the bulb MIGHT over-heat and blow, costing me about $150!


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## vandergraff (Sep 26, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> All that is needed for a DVR is a low capacity UPS unit like the entry level APC 325VA to 350VA units that can be had starting at around $30 if you watch for sales. An entry level APC unit will give you about thirty minutes to an hour of backup time, and will rid you of all the reboots that are caused by momentary power interruptions, in addition to kicking in when there voltage swings on the power line. The only reason to go more expensive than that for a DVR is to get a longer backup capacity.


Agreed a low capacity UPS makes sense - I have an APC325VA on 2 of my HR20's.

Actually all I need is about 30 seconds of backup. The backup generator kicks in at this point.....................

It is not just Texas and Florida that has unreliable power. PGE has the same problem - particularly if you live in the mountains close to where the Pacific storms hit. We can lose power for 2 - 3 days a couple of times each winter. Shorter outages are much more frequent. Power was out for two hours on Saturday.

Which reminds me I need to get another UPS for the third HR20.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

feschiver said:


> Im with GLENJ84 I use a UPS for my DVRs and low amp devices and a good AV surge divice for my tv


Ditto. I actually have 2 UPS running 2 HR20s, 2 eSATA drives, and 1 HR10. Those of you with eSATA drives, don't forget that the 1-2 second power outage will likely cause your HR10 to boot to the internal drive. So you would miss any scheduled recordings, etc. until you can correct it by rebooting again.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

JMII said:


> Frankly I'm shocked (no pun intended) that people with DVRs, computers, Playstations, etc... do NOT have UPS on them :eek2: its just asking for trouble.


I've never bought one and it hasn't caused me any trouble. But I've only been buying electronics since 1964. So I guess I don't have as much experience as you do. :lol:


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## Rakul (Sep 3, 2007)

I've got both here, UPS in the bedroom where my SWM8 PI is going to go, UPS in the office mainly because of the eSATA drive and it would be a pain to restart everything if it lost power. No UPS in the living room though just because I haven't found one I like that fits there for a price I am willing to pay. I would agree though that having the UPS just make's life easier for me.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

jaguar325 said:


> I am using auto-sensing hamsters on treadmills.


LOL... what is the reaction time of your hamsters? :lol:


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## ohills (Sep 16, 2006)

I have three APC's for all of my HT and computer gear. I think it is a great investment!


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## Bobbo (May 26, 2007)

I have an APC Back-UPS BX1500LCD, which runs about $200. It is connected to an HR20, a R15, an H21, and a PC that records shows from the R15 and H21. 

I modified this UPS to give me more run time. Normally the UPS will only run for about 15 min or so with this load, but I found that I could connect 2 car batteries in series as an external source, and the UPS will continue to run for about 8 hours – long enough to get through the night. I did this because we were without power for some time after the San Diego fires last October, and I did not want to run the generators we were using all night (they are very noisy). The longer run time is also useful if you want to keep everything recording for long power shutdowns while you are at work or away from home.

This is not a supported configuration for this UPS, but after doing this for many nights, I was convinced that the UPS can handle the continuous drain, at least at about 200W, for long periods of time. 

A few cautionary notes:
Large batteries can be dangerous due to the large amount of current you can draw if they short, so you need to make sure that battery terminals are well insulated (I put the batteries in a box). I found out the hard way that even a grounded F connecter dropped onto one of the battery terminals not at ground will melt metal and create sparks, as well as cause damage to the UPS.
You also need to make sure you do not connect the UPS to the PC using the USB cable and software supplied. If you do this, the PC will shut down after a few minutes, and also causes the UPS to shut down – not desirable if you are trying to keep things going for 8 hours. 

I don’t know if adding larger batteries will work with other UPS’s.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

No surprise here. UPS, UPS, UPS. I have over 12 in my house backing up everything electronic including my alarm clock and Select Comfort bed.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

If you have an externally powered multiswitch, don't forget to plug that into the UPS too for uninterrupted recording while on backup power.


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## B Newt (Aug 12, 2007)

I use nothing. In the 14 years in this house we had ONE power failure. It lasted about 2 hours.


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## racermd (Dec 18, 2006)

Personally, I've got a small UPS on my equipment cabinet in the basement that covers the DSL modem, a PC acting as a router and light-duty storage server, a small ethernet switch, and a powered D* multiswitch. It's probably good for about 15 minutes if I ever need it that long. (knocks some wood and throws some salt to be sure)

The 3 HR20-700 boxes in my home are on modest surge protectors. Real ones, not just the outlet-multiplying strips from the hardware store.

Putting each DVR on a UPS feels excessive considering the following:

1: They're covered under a personal insurance policy that also covers my computer equipment
2: We've never had any serious power problems (yet).
3: The wife and I aren't too attached to TV that we can't live without it for more than a few hours or even days. We have other hobbies and other things in life to do if we want.

While I agree that a UPS is really the best method to protect the DVRs, the up-front cost is a little steep.

That being said, the long-term plan - when the wife and I finally build that dream house out in the boonies - is for total power protection. On-grid with solar and wind generation for day-to-day, and probably a hefty dedicated-circuit/centralized UPS and LP/CNG generator combo for things like the fridge/freezer, sump pump, and other 'critical' items for extended outages.

Oh, well. Back to the bunker I go...


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## MONSTERMAN (Aug 18, 2007)

Came here thinking there was a poll?

I would opt for a really good surge protector (whole house surge protector best bet). Otherwise, an expensive MONSTER CABLE :grin: surge/power supply would do.

I would only use a UPS for a computer so your work wouldn't disappear and you could save real fast before shutdown. A UPS wouldn't allow you enough time to record any show long enough anyway.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

I had a really good thunderstorm in my area last night. I even lost the power for about 10 seconds. I don't have a UPS for anything and nothing in the house was damaged. The DVR had to reboot but it was no big deal. I wasn't watching TV and the DVR wasn't recording anything.


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Came here thinking there was a poll?
> 
> I would opt for a really good surge protector (whole house surge protector best bet). Otherwise, an expensive MONSTER CABLE :grin: surge/power supply would do.
> 
> I would only use a UPS for a computer so your work wouldn't disappear and you could save real fast before shutdown. A UPS wouldn't allow you enough time to record any show long enough anyway.


These DVRs *are* computers, complete with an operating system and hard drive. I'm not trying to protect myself from a two-hour power failure. I'm trying to protect myself from the two-second variety.

And, if it were a long outage, I could safely power down my DLP TV and probably have enough reserve to keep the DVR running for a while.


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## JayB (Mar 19, 2007)

UPS with power conditioning on all DVRs, computers, and TVs in the house. Soon to be be supplemented by an outside natural gas powered generator that will run the whole house. I really, really hate loosing power while in the middle of playing EQ2...


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## dragonbait (Jan 20, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> A UPS wouldn't allow you enough time to record any show long enough anyway.


My APC1500Va can run my RPTV, HR-20 w/ eSata, DirecTivo, and Yamaha receiver for about 20-30 minutes. If I shut off the Yamaha I can get 30-40 minutes. Shutting off the Yamaha and the TV puts the run time over and hour. That is long enough to record most shows. In addition, the power is usually only out for seconds or in some cases minutes. I would rather have the UPS cover those few seconds or minutes then have the DVR spend 10-15 minutes rebooting and then spend an additional minute or two before it realizes it should be recording. Therefore, I would disagree with your statement about run-times being insufficient.

Also my HR20 will boot to internal drive instead of the eSata after a power failure so the UPS prevents that situation in most cases during the usual summer afternoon thunderstorms.


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## MONSTERMAN (Aug 18, 2007)

bakers12 said:


> These DVRs *are* computers, complete with an operating system and hard drive. I'm not trying to protect myself from a two-hour power failure. I'm trying to protect myself from the two-second variety.
> 
> And, if it were a long outage, I could safely power down my DLP TV and probably have enough reserve to keep the DVR running for a while.


Yes, but they are really cheap computers. Good UPS's are not cheap. Anyway, never heard of a DVR or electronic component failing after a power out. A brown out would be more in line of having a surge protector or inline suppressors. No need of backing up any data that the DVR hard drive stores.



dragonbait said:


> My APC1500Va can run my RPTV, HR-20 w/ eSata, DirecTivo, and Yamaha receiver for about 20-30 minutes. If I shut off the Yamaha I can get 30-40 minutes. Shutting off the Yamaha and the TV puts the run time over and hour. That is long enough to record most shows. In addition, the power is usually only out for seconds or in some cases minutes. I would rather have the UPS cover those few seconds or minutes then have the DVR spend 10-15 minutes rebooting and then spend an additional minute or two before it realizes it should be recording. Therefore, I would disagree with your statement about run-times being insufficient.
> 
> Also my HR20 will boot to internal drive instead of the eSata after a power failure so the UPS prevents that situation in most cases during the usual summer afternoon thunderstorms.


Well sure if you want to spend $200-300 dollars every 3-5 years (average lifespan of a UPS). But that is throwing money out the window. If people are losing that much power and concerned with not missing any recorded shows, then they should just invest in a small generator which would be cheaper anyway in the long run.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Anyway, never heard of a DVR or electronic component failing after a power out.


I have - many, many times. The TiVo forum is littered with such stories, and anyone who manages a computer lab will tell you that after a power failure, chances are that at least one disk drive will fail to come back.

It's the flickering power that really kills disk drives. It's not likely to damage other components of a DVR, but disk drives are susceptible.


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## FogCutter (Nov 6, 2006)

We have a house standby generator, but it takes 2 minutes to kick in, so I put my DVRs on old UPS units that have lost their zap enough I won't use them on our computers. Good for ten minutes or so.

My perception is that UPS offers better surge protection, but that may not be valid. I've had a couple of devices zapped through surge protectors over the years but never through an UPS. Lots of variables though.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

sbl said:


> I have - many, many times. The TiVo forum is littered with such stories, and anyone who manages a computer lab will tell you that after a power failure, chances are that at least one disk drive will fail to come back.
> 
> It's the flickering power that really kills disk drives. It's not likely to damage other components of a DVR, but disk drives are susceptible.


That's the biggest myth out there. Anecdotes do not equal data.

*Heat* and *age* are what causes drives to fail, not 'flickering power'.

Of course drives fail to come back on a power up - just like a light bulb is more likely to fail when being turned on (and not in a steady state condition). That has nothing to do with the power. Correlation does not equal causation.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Came here thinking there was a poll?
> 
> I would opt for a really good surge protector (whole house surge protector best bet). Otherwise, an expensive MONSTER CABLE :grin: surge/power supply would do.
> 
> I would only use a UPS for a computer so your work wouldn't disappear and you could save real fast before shutdown. A UPS wouldn't allow you enough time to record any show long enough anyway.


Actually, even a low capacity UPS would allow you enough backup time to at record for about hour. In addition, it would prevent a ten minute recording gap that would happen if the DVR reboots in the middle of a recording from a power outage that only lasts for a few seconds.

A "really good surge protector" doesn't provide anywhere near the level of benefits that a good entry level UPS does, especially considering that the cost difference would be minimal. With the cost of such benefits starting as low as $30, I would never consider not having a UPS for any DVR that I use.


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## RoadDawg (Apr 2, 2008)

Redlinetire said:


> *Heat* and *age* are what causes drives to fail, not 'flickering power'.


True: Heat and Age can cause drives to fail.

Flickering power is definitely is a major contributor to all kinds of computer and hard drive problems.



Redlinetire said:


> Of course drives fail to come back on a power up - just like a light bulb is more likely to fail when being turned on (and not in a steady state condition). That has nothing to do with the power.


:scratch: You just contradicted yourself.

I'm not an engineer, but a good friend of mine is a broadcast engineer who works on TV cameras and computers every day. He told me a long time ago that constant clean power is important to the life of your electronics. I'm not sure about DVRs but in regards to computers he recommended to me- to not turn them off unless you have to, and put them on a good UPS. For reasons stated by _many_ before, a DVR fits into that category too. (I wont embarrass myself with asking him about that one)

Surge protectors and UPS are a no brainer for me. My home was struck by lightning, and it fried practically everything that wasn't surge protected. A neighbor half a mile down the road got hit too, and it still fried our phone lines and popped the breakers to my surge protectors.

If you are lucky enough to have perfect, constant power with never an interruption, and lucky enough to never have any storms, then you're right- you don't need anything. I guess I'm just one of the _*few*_ :biggrin: who sees an occasional flicker, few minutes of lost power, or risk of lightning. Thats why I use both.


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

RoadDawg said:


> I'm not an engineer, but a good friend of mine is a broadcast engineer who works on TV cameras and computers every day. He told me a long time ago that constant clean power is important to the life of your electronics. I'm not sure about DVRs but in regards to computers he recommended to me- to not turn them off unless you have to, and put them on a good UPS. For reasons stated by _many_ before, a DVR fits into that category too. (I wont embarrass myself with asking him about that one)


If you thought I was contradicting, then I obviously wasn't clear.
I was simply stating what your friend said more clearly: starting and stopping electronics (used to be) the hardest thing on them, versus keeping them running. So you can have a hard drive close to failing (but working) that will NOT work once you power it off and then try to power it on again. But the failure wasn't primarily caused by turning the power off and on, it was already in a weak state.

And I agree that if you live in an area with unstable power, a UPS to prevent interruptions is a fine investment. I would definitely invest in one myself for that purpose if I would have need to.

But as evidenced by this postings in this forum, *most* people experience hard drive failure when the machine reboots after a software upgrade. How does your UPS prevent that? It doesn't.

Unless you're backing up the hard drive (like you should do a computer) - then you will lose your recordings - which people seem to think a UPS will prevent by 'preventing' hard drive failure.


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## stickywicket (Jan 26, 2006)

Another vote for UPS.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

With all the Earth Day talk and being Green today. . . 

QUESTION:
Does having 3 (one for each DVR &TV) APC 1400 UPS cause a lot of extra electricity usage with it having to keep the battery fully charged and ready all the time.


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## dragonbait (Jan 20, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Well sure if you want to spend $200-300 dollars every 3-5 years (average lifespan of a UPS). But that is throwing money out the window. If people are losing that much power and concerned with not missing any recorded shows, then they should just invest in a small generator which would be cheaper anyway in the long run.


Generally there is a bit of a startup delay with generators, especially inexpensive systems (hello from hurricane alley, btw).

As to throwing money out the window, that is your opinion. You can choose to spend your money elsewhere and I hope you enjoy whatever you spend it on.

However, I have discovered an interesting phenomenon in my house. It seems that the happier my wife is the happier I am and the less happy she is the less happy I am. In addition, I found that waiting for a DirecTV box to load guide data for 10 minutes after a brief power glitch during one of her shows made her less happy (and this was before we had a DVR and had to watch stuff live). Consequently, in order to improve her happiness (and therefore mine) I connected that non-DVR DirecTV receiver to the UPS already sitting there that was for my Xbox. Now she smiles at me whenever the power glitches because she knows what would have happened without that UPS.

If that is throwing money out the window then so be it.


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## MONSTERMAN (Aug 18, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> Actually, even a low capacity UPS would allow you enough backup time to at record for about hour. In addition, it would prevent a ten minute recording gap that would happen if the DVR reboots in the middle of a recording from a power outage that only lasts for a few seconds.
> 
> A "really good surge protector" doesn't provide anywhere near the level of benefits that a good entry level UPS does, especially considering that the cost difference would be minimal. With the cost of such benefits starting as low as $30, I would never consider not having a UPS for any DVR that I use.


Fine, if you want to spend $200-300 dollars every 3-5 years (more like 2) more power to ya. Don't know of any other benefits other than having a backup, mainly for saving info on your PC. IMO the UPS negatives outweigh the positives. 
:nono2:


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

No UPSs here, just surge protectors. Mostly because I'm cheap, but also because we have really good power around here. I can't recall ever having a brownout in this house, and the power has only gone out twice in three years for just a moment or two - and both times it was in the middle of the night when nothing was recording.


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## Rakul (Sep 3, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Fine, if you want to spend $200-300 dollars every 3-5 years (more like 2) more power to ya. Don't know of any other benefits other than having a backup, mainly for saving info on your PC. IMO the UPS negatives outweigh the positives.
> :nono2:


As Dragon pointed out everyone has their own benefits, just because you don't see it for yourself doesn't mean others don't either. I am another one where it is worth the $60 I spent on the UPS if it means my wife doesn't get ticked off if the DVR shuts down half way through Lost. Even though we rarely lose power here during the spring and summer we could blink several times a week.


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## vandergraff (Sep 26, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Fine, if you want to spend $200-300 dollars every 3-5 years (more like 2) more power to ya. Don't know of any other benefits other than having a backup, mainly for saving info on your PC. IMO the UPS negatives outweigh the positives.
> :nono2:


Not sure where the $200-300 comes from. I bought two entry level APC UPS at ~$30 each. I actually bought the first four years ago when I got a DLP TV as I wanted to make sure the fan continued to run when power goes out. It now keeps the DLP and HR20 running. I got the second one last year for second HR20.

Per my earlier post I only need approx 30 seconds of back up and then the whole-house back up generator kicks in. The only problem I have had with this set up was once in a brown out the UPS's kicked in but the brown out was not low enough to set off the generator - so the UPS power ran out after 30 minutes or so. But even in this case I think the UPS was better than leaving the TVs and HR20's connected to the low voltage during the brown out. Once I realized what was happening I manually switched over to the generator.

This set up works really well for me. If power goes for a few seconds everything continues on the UPS. If I get a longer power outage then the generator takes over after 30 seconds. Unfortunately both short and long outages are fairly frequent with PG&E.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

vandergraff said:


> Not sure where the $200-300 comes from. I bought two entry level APC UPS at ~$30 each.


I did the same thing...have 3 small APC UPS for each of my HR20's that I found on sale for around $30 each. My problem was during thunderstorms, the power would flip off, then back on after 1-2 seconds. With the UPS, my HR20's have no problems with the power flips!


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Fine, if you want to spend $200-300 dollars every 3-5 years (more like 2) more power to ya. Don't know of any other benefits other than having a backup, mainly for saving info on your PC. IMO the UPS negatives outweigh the positives.
> :nono2:


Now you are just making up to silly arguments support what has turned out to be an indefensible position.

Where do you get $200-300 every 3-5 years????? I have 2 UPSs on 3 DVRs... one a 750 VA APC unit that I got for $20 after rebate, and the other a 350 VA APC unit I paid $30 for. That's a $50 expense that gets amortized over the 3-5 year battery life, not $200-300. Even if there was never another sale or rebate on UPSs, making replacing the battery more economical than just buying a whole new unit, the expense would still not be significantly different from the original acquisition cost of $50.

If you have to stop, think about, and weigh the cost benefit ratio of any potential purchase based on it's amortized cost of less than $1 per month, you've really got way bigger issues and problems than a DVR shutting down or rebooting in the middle of a recording, and perhaps you should be spending more time figuring out ways to improve your financial situation instead of spending your time trying to make up silly "negatives" about using a UPS with a DVR.


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## Rakul (Sep 3, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> Now you are just making up to silly arguments support what has turned out to be an indefensible position.
> 
> Where do you get $200-300 every 3-5 years?????


The only point I can even try and figure out what the poster was trying to say is in electricity charges which depending on the size of the UPS I doubt anyone would rack up that much. However I agree it's just a silly argument that looks like it's pulled out of thin air.


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## jdmac29 (Jan 6, 2006)

I have a UPS for my lcd rear projection to protect the bulb but honestly I had my hr20-700 hooked up just to a surge protector and the power has gone out but no major problems since 8-06. I just moved and now my tv is on a stand next to my dvr so it and my swm/ftm PI plugged into it. The ups is a monster ups 500


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Fine, if you want to spend $200-300 dollars every 3-5 years (more like 2) more power to ya.


Dude, don't just make stuff up.

I've spent a total of about $250 on my 3 UPS'. One has been working fine for over 4 years, one for over 2 years and one is only a few months old.

And even if they do fail, you just have to replace the batter which is about $50.

Even if they all fail after 4 years and I throw it out, I'm spending less than $2 per month to allow me to watch my shows during power outages (or listen to music or watch a DVD), protect against surges and protect against abrupt shut downs.

Seems like a small price to protect all the equipment I have.

Of course, if you can't afford the $2 per month, then your problems might be bigger than worrying about protecting your equipment and/or using it during power failures.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

My Three APC 1400s are now on year Four.

I just checked on ebay. Replacement cost is $45 per unit if I replace two UPS, plus shipping which brings it to about $62 for a battery replacement.

Anyone know how electricity costs factor in over 4 years. How much does it cost in extra electricity to have a APC 1400 UPS fully charged all the time?


I see last night Circuit C had APC 350s on sale for $19 each. WOW


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Each of my HR2x's has it's own UPS with AVR.


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## MONSTERMAN (Aug 18, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> Dude, don't just make stuff up.
> 
> I've spent a total of about $250 on my 3 UPS'. One has been working fine for over 4 years, one for over 2 years and one is only a few months old.
> 
> ...


Don't everyone get their panties in a bunch!!! After all, this was an OPINION POLL (You know what they say about opinions, don't you). Didn't know there were sooooooo many "SENSITIVES" :icon_cry: here!!!

:beatdeadhorse:


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

MONSTERMAN said:


> Don't everyone get their panties in a bunch!!! After all, this was an OPINION POLL (You know what they say about opinions, don't you). Didn't know there were sooooooo many "SENSITIVES" :icon_cry: here!!!


I think it was more a case of ridiculing absurd statements like saying that a UPS doesn't provide any more benefits than "a good surge protector", or pitiful suggestions that the cost of a UPS (which works out to about fifty cents a month) presents too high of a cost to benefit ratio. Maybe one day everyone will be able to recognize the benefits, and afford the cost.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

How much a month does it cost to have a UPS. It is like running a 100 watt light build 24x7 all month?

Just looking for some stats.

THere has to be cost to keep that battery charged up.


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## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

UPS here also thanks to the knowledeable people on here!!


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

scottchez said:


> How much a month does it cost to have a UPS. It is like running a 100 watt light build 24x7 all month?
> 
> Just looking for some stats.
> 
> THere has to be cost to keep that battery charged up.


After the initial charge is complete, it just takes a small trickle of current to keep the battery topped off. I suspect that the additional cost associated with running a UPS is a small fraction of the cost to run the DVR itself.


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## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

Arent all those surge protectors and power backups supposed to be bad for DVRs, HD and HD DVRs? Directv tech troubleshooting tip No 1 - plug your receivers directly into wall outlets.


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## GeoffL (Jan 21, 2008)

I choose to go with an APC H15 Line Conditioner over a UPS for the following reasons:

1. I wanted all my equipment including my power hungry plasma to get clean power. The H15 was less than $300 and could supply clean regulated power within +-5% of 120v to my TV, DVR, AMP, Playstation, Etc.
2. I live in California. I get more Brown-outs and low power conditions than complete power failures (I see the H15 regular boosting the voltage sometimes for 1/2 hour periods. A UPS isn't very useful for that unless you get a line-interrupt unit.
3. I wanted some "noise" and line filtering. Most computer grade UPS units in that price range don't offer that. The H15 has isolated outlets for AMP, TV, DVR etc. it maybe a marketing ploy, but, I don't get any pops or noise when I turn anything on.

Plus, I don't have to worry about replacing the battery, usually, it goes when you least expect it and I get the soft shutdowns and starts with the line conditioner. I would have loved to get the APC theater unit that had the battery backup, but, I didn't have the budget for that.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Unreal, it appears that asking a UPS question here is equal to a political or religion question anywhere else. :lol:


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

ironwood said:


> Aren't all those surge protectors and power backups supposed to be bad for DVRs, HD and HD DVRs?


Absolutely not. DVRs are exactly the type of equipment that UPS are primarily made for.



ironwood said:


> Directv tech troubleshooting tip No 1 - plug your receivers directly into wall outlets.


Huh? Never heard of tech support telling someone to bypass a UPS. That might be troubleshooting tip #13 if the DVR won't turn on at all, just to verify that the UPS isn't completely dead and not supplying power, but it certainly has nothing to do with a UPS supposedly being bad for a DVR.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

scottchez said:


> THere has to be cost to keep that battery charged up.


There don't seem to be any available statistics from APC or Tripplite. I suspect that the battery charging power for a lead acid battery is not as much as the electronics required to switch the power in the event of a failure. You're probably talking something in the range of the power required to run a digital clock radio.


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## mstenbrg (Oct 2, 2006)

What size ups would I need for a DLP TV and my HR-20? I also have a Yamaha receiver and a Blu-Ray palyer, but they do not necessarily have to be protected. I may want the receiver on the UPS so I have sound when the power goes out. I mainly want to protect the bulb on the DLP so that it can cool down if the power goes out.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

cartrivision said:


> Never heard of tech support telling someone to bypass a UPS.


Over at E* where all of their ViP series receivers feature Homeplug network interfaces, they're pretty adamant about not plugging the receiver into a conventional UPSs or surge strips.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

mstenbrg said:


> What size ups would I need for a DLP TV and my HR-20? I also have a Yamaha receiver and a Blu-Ray palyer, but they do not necessarily have to be protected. I may want the receiver on the UPS so I have sound when the power goes out. I mainly want to protect the bulb on the DLP so that it can cool down if the power goes out.


Many of the reputable UPS offerors have a applet on their website that will help you to evaluate your needs. Be prepared with the power requirements of all of the devices that you want covered.

Look for "UPS sizing calculator" or similar and have your product manuals open to the specifications page.


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## johnck78 (Feb 19, 2007)

I run a UPS for Cable Modem, Router, Switch, "Server" PC, Cordless Phone, VOIP, Samsung DLP, Playstation 3, SWM PI, OTA PI, oh yea, and my HR20-700. Cost me about $150 for the properly sized APC (don't have the model # handy). I live in an old house, and I can tell you that almost every time I put on a light, I hear the UPS flip over to battery for a few. So in my case I am CERTAIN that the UPS is saving me from routine "brown outages". Not to mention that if the power goes out, I can still play "Rock Band" while recording on OTA and Satellite, talking on the cordless phone, while downloading DOD and my favorite Bit Torrent, for about 20 min. If I kill the TV, then i get about 40. So when I'm home, I can turn off the non-essentials, to gain max time. When I'm not home, the TV, & PS3 are off so I get max time there. Never a missed recording!

$150 well spent in my book!


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## clbw (Jan 10, 2006)

UPS are good for giving you time to shut down your equipment, and do a great job of surge suppressor / arrester.

If you have equipment that does not need a graceful shut down then buy a good surge protector.

The best solution, or the solution I think is the best is what I have implemented.

1. I have a whole house surge suppressor/ arrestor at the point of entry i.e. the circuit breaker box. This protects all outlets in the house, this is primarily for high energy surge suppression

2. I have UPS's on any equipment that has moving parts like hard drives. this give me time to shut down the equipment.

3. all electronics that are not connected to the UPS has a point of use surge protector. This is to cover what the whole house protector doesn't do. This also gives redundancy for clean power. I have just started moving to HD and purchased my first LCD which it is mounted on the Wall and space is limited there is no room for a UPS and not really a need for a UPS. for the TV I use an APC 2c surge protector which cost 99.00 bucks but considering the TV was around 2G's I think this is an excellent investment. 

So I vote for UPS's and Surge protectors.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

One thing I've also done with my UPS's is cooling relief. I've had a couple extended outages during the summer when it was 'really' hot. I shut down everything as soon as the outage hit then used the UPS to run a little fan to help keep me cool until the power came back.


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## Moocher (Feb 5, 2007)

mstenbrg said:


> What size ups would I need for a DLP TV and my HR-20? I also have a Yamaha receiver and a Blu-Ray palyer, but they do not necessarily have to be protected. I may want the receiver on the UPS so I have sound when the power goes out. I mainly want to protect the bulb on the DLP so that it can cool down if the power goes out.


I have a 750 unit connected to my tv and a 350 for the hr-20. I also have the receiver, dvd player, and an old direct/tivo connected to the two ups with the load distributed logically. Don't ask what the logic was. Today is not a logic kind of day.

Mooch


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

harsh said:


> Over at E* where all of their ViP series receivers feature Homeplug network interfaces, they're pretty adamant about not plugging the receiver into a conventional UPSs or surge strips.


Yikes! I guess that's another reason to be glad that *I'm* not over at E*. I'd never want a DVR that wouldn't function properly and/or fully if it was plugged into a UPS or surge protector.


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

I live less than a mile from a “priority one” grid substation. The wiring from there to my house is all underground. In almost 11 years at this location, we’ve had just a handful of power outages and none lasted more than a few hours. If my power is out, then at least 50,000 other customers are out, too. Alabama Power works very quickly to repair any problems with this substation. In fact, they often positions service trucks there whenever there are large storms in the area. 

Regardless, I still have all of my D* receivers on UPS’s, even the one H20 non-DVR. They are relatively inexpensive and make my life easier.


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## Toyo (Nov 19, 2007)

Very good thread! I love threads that educate one another. Shows each one of us our points of experience and knowledge. With that being said..............

I have a Monster 4500 power conditioner. Its amazing to watch the display show the swings in the incoming current. Mine swings from 117 to 123 most of the time. I am very pleased that it cleans this up. My question is would I put a UPS before of after the conditioner/protector? My brain is having a fart right now!


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

Toyo said:


> Very good thread! I love threads that educate one another. Shows each one of us our points of experience and knowledge. With that being said..............
> 
> I have a Monster 4500 power conditioner. Its amazing to watch the display show the swings in the incoming current. Mine swings from 117 to 123 most of the time. I am very pleased that it cleans this up. My question is would I put a UPS before of after the conditioner/protector? My brain is having a fart right now!


Generally, you'd want to put the conditioner in after the UPS. A UPS should generally be plugged directly into the power source. There are some exceptions to this, but for consumer-grade equipment, this is the way to go. You also may be interested to see how good a job the UPS does as a surge protector by being able to monitor its output on the conditioner.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

UPS and a natural gas fired backup generator running the fridge, freezer, furnace, ac, lights in certain rooms and TV setup - ever try going an extended length of time with 3 kids under the age of 10 with no power and no TV? Adding the entertainment center plugs to the genset fusebox was money well spent


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## Sander (Jun 3, 2007)

Living here in the suburban Atlanta area, we are frequently hit by lighting storms, momentary power outages, and/or brownouts. Sometimes, I'll see momentary outages two or three times in minute or two. My UPS's keeps my systems up and running without rebooting the DVR/PC each time. In the last 12 weeks, my APC-UPS shows 12 major power interruptions at my PC. This does not count any short duration power glitches. Total UPS battery time in that interval was 60 seconds.

Saves recordings and I've got to believe is easier on the system itself. I think a UPS is well worth the money.


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## Paul_PDX (Apr 2, 2008)

mstenbrg said:


> What size ups would I need for a DLP TV and my HR-20? I also have a Yamaha receiver and a Blu-Ray palyer, but they do not necessarily have to be protected. I may want the receiver on the UPS so I have sound when the power goes out. I mainly want to protect the bulb on the DLP so that it can cool down if the power goes out.


I have mine all on a 1500VA APC unit (http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=bx1500).
I have a 56" DLP, Yamaha RX-V2400, HR21, external SATA drive, Vista Media Center PC, a component video matrix switch, a component video distribution amp, an ethernet switch, and a Sony DVD changer. If the Power drops for more than about a minute I always start shutting down the DLP and the receiver (the PC shuts itself down when it sees the switch to battery).

With my old HR10-250 receiver (2 hard drives) I could then leave it on the UPS for about 30-40 minutes if it would have been recording hoping the power comes back in time. I don't yet know how the power drain is on my HR21+eSATA drive in the same situation since I haven't had an outage since getting it.


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## compaddict (Apr 14, 2008)

I use a Tripplite 1400 just for my DTV recorder. 

Vince


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

I have a surge protector in my power strip I guess. You could easily just file me under nothing.

I have found UPSes to not be terribly useful at preventing hardware damage. They are quite good at preventing service interruptions (hence their names), but we don't have a lot of those, so I don't bother, partly because I don't really feel like spending the money it would cost to run them anyway.


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## looney2ns (Sep 20, 2007)

I have a Kill-A-Watt meter, using it on my fully charged 650va APC UPS shows that the UPS is drawing about 19 watts to keep the battery charged. That's with nothing plugged into the UPS.

If it has a hard drive or a cooling fan (dlp tv), it needs a UPS.


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## Sneezy (Dec 18, 2006)

UPS. Why would you NOT want one? Save the hassle of having to replace a unit by plugging it into a UPS. It just plain makes sense.

Every electronic item worth anything in my house is on a UPS. I have 8 of the suckers. Our electricity is very unstable and you can hear the batteries kick in on a regular basis, especially in the warmer weather.

I had issues when my linksys router wasn't on a UPS, I kept losing my road runner. When I realized it and the cable modem were only on a surge protector I knew instantly what the problem was. After getting them on the UPS all the problems went away.

4 computers([email protected] geek)
2 DVR's & TV's ect
PS3
Russound Whole House Audio system
Cable Modem
Lynksys Router
18 port Gigabit hub.

All are on UPS's.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The vast majority of "surge" protectors are no better than just having a multiple outlet power bar. They don't do a whole lot of protecting. Any decent UPS will protect the devices and potentially save you having a problem. Of course, over a couple of years running a UPS for your HR2X could cost you more than the $20 S/H to replace the unit in extra power usage feels.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

UPS...for obvious reasons:

1. Includes surge protection, so you get 2 for 1

2. Lots of power "winkies" out here in the country, not to mention several second power losses that are *very* common (and quite hard on electronic devices). We had six of them last night.

I have ten of them in the house protecting phone systems, fax machines, computers, and home theater. Of course, nothing is perfect, but for the typical issues in rural and thunderstorm prone areas, a UPS is mandatory. When we lose power, even for less than a second, there is an irritating orchestra of non-harmonious beeps throughout the house. (the down side)

Even a small ups to handle surges and the momentary "winkies" is a very smart investment. Anyone without pristine power mains would having a kilo-buck TV, not to mention home theater and dvr systems and not put them on a UPS is penny wise and pound foolish to me.

A side benefit of using larger UPS boxes is the ability to finish a recording during a longer term outage. I am good for about an hour or so on my DVRs.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Redlinetire said:


> Why would I spend money to protect a device I don't own?
> Recording TV isn't THAT critical to me.
> 
> Put me down for nothing...


Because you want the leased equipment to continue working?

(This assumes you actually like to use the equipment, but from your comment, you may be indifferent to down time. Most of us don't much appreciate down time.)


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

GlennJ84 said:


> Call me crazy, but generally both are neccessary. Most UPS's aren't rated that high in surge protection. Cheap surge protectors can be rated in the thousands of Joules and most UPS's are only rated in the low 3 to 4 hundreds. Why not have both. Surge protector to UPS to Devices.
> 
> My $0.02
> Peace Out


Make sure your extra surge protector comes AFTER the UPS ....you do not want the UPS fault detection circuitry to be slowed down by the modification of the offending wave form that results from the external surge protection.

The issue is much less surge protection than line isolation. You want the the offending line isolated from the delicate equipment as fast as possible. This cannot be accomplished by a surge protector (typically). The UPS reacts in milliseconds to isolate the line...much faster than the typical surge protector.

The proper way to add additional surge protection with a UPS :

AC Mains > UPS > Surge Protector > Equipment.

If you put the surge protector first, you inhibit the UPS from reacting quickly to isolate the AC line. A very bad idea.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

I have a surge protector now. 

I'm considering a conditioner or UPS.

Mike


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

While we're on this subject, and BTW I'm with *hasan* all the way on the issue in question, I have had occasion to order replacement batteries for my UPS devices recently, as well as replacement rechargeable batteries for my Olympus camera. I have noticed an alarming rise in what I can only describe as "fake" batteries sold from different internet sources, all made in China. They appear to take a charge, but then they deplete in a _very_ short time. _Caveat emptor!_


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## dragonbait (Jan 20, 2007)

hasan said:


> When we lose power, even for less than a second, there is an irritating orchestra of non-harmonious beeps throughout the house. (the down side)


I turn off the beeps on mine using the software on a laptop when I install them. Makes things a lot quieter. Plus our dog is extremely afraid of thunder and she began associating the UPS beeps with thunder. Consequently, she would become a quivering mess whenever a UPS beeped for any power event.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Ken S said:


> The vast majority of "surge" protectors are no better than just having a multiple outlet power bar. They don't do a whole lot of protecting. Any decent UPS will protect the devices and potentially save you having a problem. Of course, over a couple of years running a UPS for your HR2X could cost you more than the $20 S/H to replace the unit in extra power usage feels.


I don't use a UPS to avoid the small cost of replacing a leased DVR that gets zapped, I use it to prevent 10 minute interruptions in recordings because a two second voltage dip causes a DVR to reboot, and to maintain interrupted recording capability during moderate length power outages that last up to one hour.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

dragonbait said:


> I turn off the beeps on mine using the software on a laptop when I install them. Makes things a lot quieter. Plus our dog is extremely afraid of thunder and she began associating the UPS beeps with thunder. Consequently, she would become a quivering mess whenever a UPS beeped for any power event.


Thanks for the excellent tip - didn't realize it was possible to turn off the annoying beeps with the software. I'll be giving that a try on the several APC BackUPS that I have scattered around.

The cacophony of beeps currently drives the wife and cat (and me a little) crazy when the power goes out.

If I'm awake, I alreadyl know the power is off. If I'm asleep, I don't care. Either way, I don't need the UPS beeping at me.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

Redlinetire said:


> That's the biggest myth out there. Anecdotes do not equal data.





Redlinetire said:


> If you thought I was contradicting, then I obviously wasn't clear.
> I was simply stating what your friend said more clearly: starting and stopping electronics (used to be) the hardest thing on them, versus keeping them running. So you can have a hard drive close to failing (but working) that will NOT work once you power it off and then try to power it on again. But the failure wasn't primarily caused by turning the power off and on, it was already in a weak state.


"(used to be)"? Please clarify with data, afterall..."Anecdotes do not equal data.".


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

HighVoltage said:


> "(used to be)"? Please clarify with data, afterall..."Anecdotes do not equal data.".


That's not an anecdote. That's an engineering fact.


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## ez2logon (Oct 24, 2006)

I can't attest to the engineering "fact" of start/stop being the toughest activity on a hard drive. I can advise that hard shutdowns of drives during write cycles can cause format errors that are sometimes unrecoverable. The less you yank the power on a drive, the lower your risk.

That said, a ups is a no-brainer. If somebody is a nonbeliever based on mystery science or voodoo or whatever, so be it. We had huge ups systems at GE Information back in the late seventies for good reasons.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

Redlinetire said:


> That's not an anecdote. That's an engineering fact.


I am an engineer and I dont acknowledge that as fact. I am not inclined to take your word as a sole source of fact no more than you may take mine or any "anecdoctal" sources as your previous statements would leave me to believe.

No amount of smilies or winks is going to change that. :nono:  Thats a fact.


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

I can attest that uncommanded shutdowns do "wear" a drive more than regular shutdowns. I worked on a project where the hard drive we used was rated for over 50,000 orderly spindowns and spinups. But the drive was rated at about 1,000 uncommanded (power loss) shutdowns.

However, 1,000 is still a lot of shutdowns, you'll likely never see any problems due to this. And it isn't like the drive is helpless, the power coming from the drive motor as the platters spin down is not only used to park the head, but also used to record in the drive flash that it did so!

Also, if you happen to be writing when your drive is shutdown uncommanded, it'll create a bad sector (on new drives, it'll make 4 of them!) where you happened to be writing.

Still, if your power is reasonably reliable (and I would suggest perhaps Florida's is not), you don't have to worry much about blackouts taking out your drive.


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

looney2ns said:


> I have a Kill-A-Watt meter, using it on my fully charged 650va APC UPS shows that the UPS is drawing about 19 watts to keep the battery charged. That's with nothing plugged into the UPS.
> 
> If it has a hard drive or a cooling fan (dlp tv), it needs a UPS.


I have a Kill-A-Watt too, and those are the same figures I got. And that's why I don't use UPSes. That's $20/year in power wasted to run each UPS. Others may find this acceptable, but I don't. My last UPS cost me a bundle in power costs and never saved me enough money to make up for it (in fact, it blew out 3 power supplies in my PC, but that's another story).


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

flipptyfloppity said:


> I can attest that uncommanded shutdowns do "wear" a drive more than regular shutdowns. I worked on a project where the hard drive we used was rated for over 50,000 orderly spindowns and spinups. But the drive was rated at about 1,000 uncommanded (power loss) shutdowns.
> 
> However, 1,000 is still a lot of shutdowns, you'll likely never see any problems due to this. And it isn't like the drive is helpless, the power coming from the drive motor as the platters spin down is not only used to park the head, but also used to record in the drive flash that it did so!
> 
> ...


That's good stuff flipptyfloppity. Thanks for sharing the knowledge!


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## Katodude00 (Nov 3, 2006)

How about using the UPS to protect the plasma TV. I am getting a new in Florida with crappy power and I will get it to protect the DVR. Will my plasma suffer from the power dips? Should I upscale the UPS to cover the plasma TV too.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm using a APC UPS on both of my HR2X DVR's and an additional one on my PI (in the wiring closet).

Have not had a power related failure to date.


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## bbeeman (Feb 13, 2008)

I've got two HR21-700s, and run UPSs on both. Doesn't cost all that much more than good surge protection and we're out in the boondocks.

I'm backed up by a generator, so don't need a long run-time. It would be nice if the HR21s did have provision for USB communication to trigger shutdown just in case.


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## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

Katodude00 said:


> How about using the UPS to protect the plasma TV. I am getting a new in Florida with crappy power and I will get it to protect the DVR. Will my plasma suffer from the power dips? Should I upscale the UPS to cover the plasma TV too.


Having lived in FL for many years I'd certainly add one or increase the capacity if you already own one. We often get summer thunderstorms that can drop power several times in just a few minutes. . . if the lightning doesn't get you. I have a 750va UPS that will carry through most everything except long outages. That carries the HR20 plus a 40" LCD for about 15 minutes. Good luck!


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