# Why can't Tivo use their own hardware with Directv tuners in it?



## mkdtv21 (May 27, 2007)

Cable companies like RCN and Charter are using the real Tivo Premiere set top boxes with their custom cable tuners. Why can't it be this way with Directv. Why not just use a Premiere set top box and put Directv Tuners in it. Why does it always have to be Directv hardware. It would be actually a simpler process then the cable companies knowing they have things like sdv and integrating internet. Is there some kind of law that prevents this is or is it a policy of Directv.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"mkdtv21" said:


> Cable companies like RCN and Charter are using the real Tivo Premiere set top


I've never seen what RCN and Charter normally delivers to their customers, but are they used to having another company's brand silk screened on their DVR?

D* has been in control of the user experience for a while now, and it's working pretty well for them. No great reason for them to sell a box with another company's name on the front.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Of course Tivo could have done it that way. But they chose to port their software into an existing DirecTV hardware platform, the HR22. They probably figured it would take less time that way. And maybe it did take less time than developing onto their own hardware platform.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

RCN and Charter are smaller regional cable cos. and DirecTV is nationwide. I think litzdog is right, the deployment costs for TiVo of porting to new units would have been more substantial and I'm sure DirecTv wants their own boxes used.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Maybe instead of putting the software into the HR22's, they should have put it in the faster HR24's.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Maybe instead of putting the software into the HR22's, they should have put it in the faster HR24's.


I'm sure right now, they are wishing that as well. However, since the HR22 was new when they started they project, they would have needed a Delorean with a flux capacitor to get an HR24 to use for the new TiVo.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

I don't think any DirecTivo in the past had TiVo, Inc. hardware. Weren't they all made by Hughes, Sony, Phillips, Samsung, etc?


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

mkdtv21 said:


> Cable companies like RCN and Charter are using the real Tivo Premiere set top boxes with their custom cable tuners. Why can't it be this way with Directv. Why not just use a Premiere set top box and put Directv Tuners in it. Why does it always have to be Directv hardware. It would be actually a simpler process then the cable companies knowing they have things like sdv and integrating internet. Is there some kind of law that prevents this is or is it a policy of Directv.


It's not that easy. All cable tuners are pretty much the same, they aren't really "custom". Satellite tuners on the other hand are very different from cable tuners.

TiVo is developing a box for a European satellite company, perhaps that one could be relatively easily ported to DirecTV some time in the future. It almost surely will be similar to the Premiere and Virgin set top boxes. Even so I doubt DirecTV would take it. It would not play in the DirecTV ecosystem, doing whole home and other DirecTV specific features without a lot of work.

DirecTV also wants rigid control of the user experience. The best way to maintain that is to retain tight control on the design of their set top boxes. The only way DirecTV is likely to open up to third party boxes where they don't specify every feature in detail is if the FCC forces it on them. The AllVid solution would do that, but Cable and DirecTV will fight that tooth and nail, so don't expect to see it soon.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It's worth saying, I don't think TiVo actually makes their own hardware. I'd be pretty surprised if they did. So what would be the difference between contracting Technicolor for their own box and contracting Technicolor to build HR22s for them? It might look prettier but I actually think they saved time by using existing hardware.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Let us remember when this whole thing started. It was YEARS ago. Tivo was still trying to port their software to the Comcast boxes. They were trying to become a software only company.

Being the supplier for cable boxes (as pointed out, simpler than a satellite box and closer to what Tivo sells themselves) is a recent business plan. Probably prompted by the mess they had with the Comcast boxes and the hassle the DirecTV boxes turned out to be.


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## dvdmth (Jul 24, 2008)

I hope the Comcast/TiVo experiment is not an indication of how the THR22 will perform. That experiment, if nothing else, showed how rotten the Motorola DVR hardware is and why the TV Guide software used by cable providers is so limited in functionality.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I don't think the Comcast experiment will have a lot to do with ours.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't think the Comcast experiment will have a lot to do with ours.


I expect the NEW DirecTiVo to be considerably better than the debacle that was the ComcasTiVo, but nowhere near as good as the Virgin Media TiVo.

~Alan


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> I've never seen what RCN and Charter normally delivers to their customers, but are they used to having another company's brand silk screened on their DVR?
> 
> D* has been in control of the user experience for a while now, and it's working pretty well for them. No great reason for them to sell a box with another company's name on the front.


Charters move to TiVo is a recent one, the normal DVR they roll out with is MOXI or, a Motorola DVR. Both are painful to use to the point they make an old D12 appear to be greased lightning.



bidger said:


> RCN and Charter are smaller regional cable cos. and DirecTV is nationwide. I think litzdog is right, the deployment costs for TiVo of porting to new units would have been more substantial and I'm sure DirecTv wants their own boxes used.


Charter is larger than ATT, and Verizon as to net subs

1	Comcast Corporation	22,525,000
2	DirecTV	19,433,000
3	Dish Network Corporation	14,056,000
4	Time Warner Cable, Inc.	12,235,000
5	Cox Communications, Inc.1	4,838,000
6	Charter Communications, Inc.	4,413,000



CuriousMark said:


> It's not that easy. All cable tuners are pretty much the same, they aren't really "custom". Satellite tuners on the other hand are very different from cable tuners.
> 
> TiVo is developing a box for a European satellite company, perhaps that one could be relatively easily ported to DirecTV some time in the future. It almost surely will be similar to the Premiere and Virgin set top boxes. Even so I doubt DirecTV would take it. It would not play in the DirecTV ecosystem, doing whole home and other DirecTV specific features without a lot of work.
> 
> DirecTV also wants rigid control of the user experience. The best way to maintain that is to retain tight control on the design of their set top boxes. The only way DirecTV is likely to open up to third party boxes where they don't specify every feature in detail is if the FCC forces it on them. The AllVid solution would do that, but Cable and DirecTV will fight that tooth and nail, so don't expect to see it soon.


There are two providers for SDV; Cisco and Motorola, also the cable card needed to decrypt the stations. Here in the united states there are basically only two satellite companies. One who gets sued by TiVo and, one that has worked with them.

TiVo on DirecTv has always been crippled. MRV was an option on serious 2 TiVo's stand alone units long before it was offered on other systems. So far the most disappointing things I have seen in this variant of TiVo is the missing HDUI that is quite nice.

If TiVo where allowed to utilize their own hardware I suspect all the features TiVo offers in their stand alone units would be active but, none of the extended features like on-demand provided by DirecTv eliminating the additional revenue created by them.

Pandora, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon UnBoxed and, Block Buster would benefit from that change as they are included in the search results.

That's just my 0.02c in the whole thing. DirecTv is offering basically the same TiVo they did years ago leaving out a big chunk of the current TiVo experience while charging a premium for it.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Does the HR24 run some drastically different software than an HR22? Why can't the TiVo software run on it?


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

The HR24 does not use a broadcom chip set. Porting to it would be a much bigger job.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Interesting DirecTv cant run the TiVo software through their universal compiler. Remember it's now a unified software version and issues thread for all DVR's (with the exception of the HR34).


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

"CuriousMark" said:


> The HR24 does not use a broadcom chip set. Porting to it would be a much bigger job.


HR24-500 is NXP, other models (-100, -200) are Broadcom.


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Sixto said:


> HR24-500 is NXP, other models (-100, -200) are Broadcom.


interesting. I remember reading here that it differed, I didn't know it differed within the model #. Thanks for the correction.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

CuriousMark said:


> interesting. I remember reading here that it differed, I didn't know it differed within the model #. Thanks for the correction.


Yep, and the HR24-100 & HR24-200 Broadcom chipset is later/quicker then the previous (HR21/22/23).


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## chapel (Aug 27, 2011)

This would all be so much easier if there was just a DirecTV CableCARD...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The technologies are not compatible.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

chapel said:


> This would all be so much easier if there was just a DirecTV CableCARD...


It would be much easier if there was a PCIe / USB 2.0 / Ethernet Dual tuner DirecTV tuner card.

Windows 7 Media Center > Tivo anyday of the week.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

cypherx said:


> Windows 7 Media Center > Tivo anyday of the week.


Since I'm of the mind that a computer is the perfect Home Entertainment solution and I really love W7 I can't help but agree. TiVo's fine, but for quite a bit of the advanced options a computer comes into play. I guess I just don't understand why folks limit themselves to one DVR platform.


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## PrinceLH (Feb 18, 2003)

chapel said:


> This would all be so much easier if there was just a DirecTV CableCARD...


Agreed. I'd like an HD standalone that could be shifted to different rooms, as I see fit.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

bidger said:


> I guess I just don't understand why folks limit themselves to one DVR platform.


With 5 DVRs, if I have to switch inputs, go to another remote, check some setting, or otherwise lose 5 minutes, I've got 2 or 3 hours of programming to watch!!


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## CuriousMark (May 21, 2008)

Sixto said:


> Yep, and the HR24-100 & HR24-200 Broadcom chipset is later/quicker then the previous (HR21/22/23).


If it is the dual core version with built-in flash support then the premiere experience could probably be ported to it.

TiVo is working on a sat box for Canal in Europe, so they already have a start in the right direction. My guess is that it also uses fairly current Broadcom chipsets.

DirecTV could probably leverage off of that if they decide they want to keep working with TiVo going forward.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I think its all about the security technology that DirecTV uses that would make tivo avoid ever trying to develop their own hardware, and there is no reason too anyway, since many of the same components are ones tivo would use anyway.


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