# Can Access Cards go bad?



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

My Philips DSR704 has started acting strangely this week. It started flashing back and forth between a blank screen and the TV signal. Every so often I see it flash a message saying "please insert a valid access card". I hooked up my R15 from another room in place of the Philips to be sure it wasn't a cabling problem, but it worked fine. Yesterday I unplugged it for a minute, then went through the system setup and everything seemed to be back to normal. I left it on for a couple of hours and never saw the problem. This morning when I turned it on its right back to doing the same thing.

Can the access card go bad, or is this a sign of bigger problems?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Anything can go bad.
Maybe it the card reader part that is failing.
Maybe it's the card.
Maybe cleaning the card face/contacts would help.


----------



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

In 7 years, I've seen exactly ONE bad access card, so overall, I'd say they are pretty reliable. I *have* seen a couple dozen card READERS fail in that time. And I've seen a couple of cards that have been burned or even melted by failing power supplies in the receiver, but you can't blame that on the card.

No, those failures are usually the card reader in the receiver failing.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

_"In 7 years, I've seen exactly ONE bad access card"_ and it was after 'Black Friday'.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

The simple answer is yes.

It is rare, but it does happen.

One of the most frequent sources is heat over time. Not here...but I've seen a few cards that looked like they almost were about to "fry" (brownish colorations).


----------



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

In 16+ years with DirecTV, the only thing I have ever had happen is an access card warped to a point where it could not be read or removed from the receiver (without risk of damaging something).


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

fluffybear said:


> In 16+ years with DirecTV, the only thing I have ever had happen is an access card warped to a point where it could not be read or removed from the receiver (without risk of damaging something).


When the HR20-600 over-heating units threads were going...a number of people reported "brown-colored" access cards as a result. You're right....normally, folks shouldn't have issues...


----------



## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> When the HR20-600 over-heating units threads were going...a number of people reported "brown-colored" access cards as a result. You're right....normally, folks shouldn't have issues...


I have had a brown card or two myself but in my case, the card did not fail so I didn't count them. As I say, the only card which ever gave me a problem was one which warped. I will also add that was quite a few years ago (before DVR's) and if my memory serves involved a 2nd or 3rd generation receiver.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> When the HR20-600 over-heating units threads were going...a number of people reported "brown-colored" access cards as a result. You're right....normally, folks shouldn't have issues...


I pulled the access card out and it definitely has a brown tint over most of the card. Whether it's the reader overheating or just 7+ years of use, something has caused the card to get too warm. Is there a way to determine if just the card is bad, or if it's the reader?

Thanks for all the feedback.


----------



## JosephB (Nov 14, 2005)

dlt4 said:


> I pulled the access card out and it definitely has a brown tint over most of the card. Whether it's the reader overheating or just 7+ years of use, something has caused the card to get too warm. Is there a way to determine if just the card is bad, or if it's the reader?
> 
> Thanks for all the feedback.


only way to really tell is to put that card in a different receiver or to get a new card and put in that receiver. since cards are married to their receivers, your best bet is probably to just call in and get a new card. if that doesn't work, you know you need a new receiver


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Right way to tell - run a test from menu.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

My Access Card went Bad about a year ago and finally Directv agreed with my after extensive testing that it was indeed Bad and sent me a New One.


----------



## rsonnens (Nov 8, 2006)

I've had a fried card reader on my first HR20, it happened around the same time its ethernet port was spamming packets and brought my home network to a halt.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

OK, see if any of this makes any sense.

In my original post I mentioned that yesterday I unplugged the unit, ran through the system setup again, ran a system test, and everything was fine - until I turned it on this morning.

I just tried to run a system test and the screen was totally blank, no menu or guide, no flashing back and forth between blank screen and a picture, even the buttons on the front panel got no response. So I unplugged the unit again and it started up normally, and running a system test showed everything was good, including the access card. It's sitting here now working perfectly.

So, assuming it goes back to having problems the next time I turn it on, what might that indicate is going on?


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

A full moon? :shrug:


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> A full moon? :shrug:


That's as good a guess as anything.

I guess the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what is causing the problem, I'm obviously not going to deal with doing a restart every day!


----------



## JB292 (Apr 25, 2009)

The next time you see problems, pull the card. "Please insert access card" message should come up. If it doesn't, it appears to be the receiver. My money's on the receiver anyway.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

JB292 said:


> The next time you see problems, pull the card. "Please insert access card" message should come up. If it doesn't, it appears to be the receiver. My money's on the receiver anyway.


Will do. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## boba (May 23, 2003)

My money is on a TiVo with a bad power supply, do a google for power supply problems.


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

TiVo's have been known to have card reader problems. If you take out the card the receiver should still work (give you channel 100 or 101 or whatever the "showroom" channel is). If it still doesn't then you know.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> TiVo's have been known to have card reader problems. If you take out the card the receiver should still work (give you channel 100 or 101 or whatever the "showroom" channel is). If it still doesn't then you know.


I took the card out and it appears that I don't get any channels at all. I tried 100, 200, and 201 and a few others.

So you're saying that indicates the receiver is bad?


----------



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

dlt4 said:


> I took the card out and it appears that I don't get any channels at all. I tried 100, 200, and 201 and a few others.
> 
> So you're saying that indicates the receiver is bad?


 Sorry, I stand corrected. You only get those channels with an UNACTIVATED receiver with the card IN it. If it's activated w/card pulled all I am getting are the channel "headers" when I change channels as well as the guide.


----------



## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

EDIT: Nevermind, thought it was an HR20 that was having the issue. My advice doesn't apply to the Tivo.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

matt1124 said:


> Run a card test
> 
> RBR, and when it says "running receiver self check" push select.
> 
> ...


...or clean it gently with a dry cloth...


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...or clean it gently with a dry cloth...


 - pencil eraser would works also ... alcohol ...


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> - pencil eraser would works also ... alcohol ...


For sure.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

I fully expected the unit to dead again this morning, but oddly enough it was working fine, at least for the 20 minutes I had it on. I'll try it again when I get home from work.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dlt4 said:


> I fully expected the unit to dead again this morning, but oddly enough it was working fine, at least for the 20 minutes I had it on. I'll try it again when I get home from work.


That would seem to clearly indicate something else as the source of the problem. The cards pretty much either work or they don't (when bad).


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

And it's still working this afternoon after I got home from work. I just hate intermittent problems.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

boba said:


> My money is on a TiVo with a bad power supply, do a google for power supply problems.


I would also suspect a Bad Power Supply Unit as they normally only last about 5 years and then they need to be replaced and it Mimics a Bad or Marginal Hard Drive.

It starts Bulging when the Capacitors go bad from too much heat over a prolonged period of time.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

The consensus seems to be that the problem is a bad power supply. Although the unit is still working this evening, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the problem shows up again. To confirm that it's the power supply should I just pull the cover off and look for a bloated capacitor?

Weaknees lists a price of $70 for a new power supply, so if that's the problem, I will not be repairing this unit. I'd just like to confirm what the problem is before I send it to the recycling pile.

Thanks for all the inputs.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Better if you'll get a scope and will check each rail for voltage level, ripples and noise during transition period (turning on) and during normal functioning and during failures.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

dlt4 said:


> To confirm that it's the power supply should I just pull the cover off and look for a bloated capacitor?
> 
> Weaknees lists a price of $70 for a new power supply, so if that's the problem, I will not be repairing this unit. .


That is what I Would Do!!!


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

JB292 said:


> The next time you see problems, pull the card. "Please insert access card" message should come up. If it doesn't, it appears to be the receiver. My money's on the receiver anyway.


The problem came back this morning. As you suggested, I pulled the access card and the "Please insert access card" message appeared.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

It's back...!

Turned on the TV this morning and I'm getting the flashing back and forth between a blank screen and a TV signal (which sometimes freezes).

I'm afraid its time to retire the TiVo unit.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dlt4 said:


> I pulled the access card out and it definitely has a brown tint over most of the card. Whether it's the reader overheating or just 7+ years of use, something has caused the card to get too warm. Is there a way to determine if just the card is bad, or if it's the reader?
> 
> Thanks for all the feedback.


If the card is bad and you have the Protection Plan, you should be covered and will get a new card. If not, it's gonna cost you $20. Another reason to have the PP. How many reasons do people need to get the PP?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dlt4 said:


> The consensus seems to be that the problem is a bad power supply. Although the unit is still working this evening, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the problem shows up again. To confirm that it's the power supply should I just pull the cover off and look for a bloated capacitor?
> 
> Weaknees lists a price of $70 for a new power supply, so if that's the problem, I will not be repairing this unit. I'd just like to confirm what the problem is before I send it to the recycling pile.
> 
> Thanks for all the inputs.


Need a good Series 2 SD DVR? I have a bunch, all with large HDDs. PM me if you're interested.

Rich


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> If the card is bad and you have the Protection Plan, you should be covered and will get a new card. If not, it's gonna cost you $20. Another reason to have the PP. How many reasons do people need to get the PP?
> 
> Rich


I would be Curious if something is wrong with the Card Reader causing it to Overheat the Card!!!


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

richierich said:


> I would be Curious if something is wrong with the Card Reader causing it to Overheat the Card!!!


Is there a way to determine that?


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I would ask Directv about that issue because maybe the Card Reader needs to be Replaced so you may need to send your Receiver back in to have it serviced or replaced if you have the PP.


----------



## boba (May 23, 2003)

Search on ebay for TiVo power supplies, I've found them cheap also possible to find SD replacement units very cheap. In fact HR 10-250 has been a bargin, it no longer works for D* MPEG4 HD but works great for OTA and SD recording.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I would be Curious if something is wrong with the Card Reader causing it to Overheat the Card!!!


Yeah, you're right. I don't think a card just does that to itself. Time for a new box.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I would ask Directv about that issue because maybe the Card Reader needs to be Replaced so you may need to send your Receiver back in to have it serviced or replaced if you have the PP.


I really doubt that anyone at D* or their contractor that purportedly "refurbishes" their boxes would do that.

Rich


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

richierich said:


> I would be Curious if something is wrong with the Card Reader causing it to Overheat the Card!!!


Nope, the part is operating at low current - look around, under the spot, perhaps other components creating heat close to the card slot.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

P Smith said:


> Nope, the part is operating at low current - look around, under the spot, perhaps *other components creating heat close to the card slot*.


Yup...like the power supplies on several models...


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

This morning I moved the R15 from the MBR into the den and plugged it in in place of the TiVo, and of course everything was fine. After a couple of hours, just out of curiosity, I switched back to the TiVo and it was working fine, and still is at the moment.

Assuming it's the power supply or something close to the card reader getting too hot, can either of those problems be so intermittent? I'm not doubting anybody's analysis of the problem, I'm just trying to decide whether or not to just replace the TiVo with the R15 and be done with the problem.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

If the Power Supply is going Bad and when it Heats up it causes the Power Supply to start becoming Marginal so if you Unplug it, it will be okay until it Heats up again to the Point where it becomes Marginal again.

Heat is the Major Enemy of your Power Supply Unit along with your Hard Drive. Anytime you can Isolate them away from a Heat Source then the Better position you put yourself in.

If the Power Supply becomes Marginal then it affects everything that depends upon it for Power such as the Hard Drive and then perhaps the Hard Drive will not have enough Power to effectively spin up to it's Optimal Spin Rate so you get unpredictable results.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Last few days discussing the issue ... did you open it and check components ?
running without the cover would tell you if it heat or malfunctioning happening


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Also, you could put a fan on it and if it is Heat Related Problems that should solve it.

I had a Problem with ny Denon Overheating and Shutting Down so I bought a cheap little 4" Office Fan and put it on top of the Denon pointing down and now I have no more Heat Related Problems of Shutting Down.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

I opened the unit up. The card reader is in the diagonally opposite corner from the power supply, so it doesn't seem that even if the power supply got hot it would affect the reader. I didn't see any signs of overheating.

It's running without the cover on now so we'll see what happens.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dlt4 said:


> I opened the unit up. The card reader is in the diagonally opposite corner from the power supply, so it doesn't seem that even if the power supply got hot it would affect the reader. I didn't see any signs of overheating.
> 
> It's running without the cover on now so we'll see what happens.


Any sign of other "brown" components (or charing) that might point to an area inside that excessive heat may have impacted other parts of the unit internally?

If not...the other question is...do you have any other equipment directly below the HR20 (another source of heat)?


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Any sign of other "brown" components (or charing) that might point to an area inside that excessive heat may have impacted other parts of the unit internally?
> 
> If not...the other question is...do you have any other equipment directly below the HR20 (another source of heat)?


I don't see any signs of overheating other than the brownish tint on the access card that I mentioned earlier in the thread. It's been running for about two hours now. I've touched the big capacitor in the power supply and other components and the only thing that's even warm is the heat sink next to the power supply.

It sits on top of a VCR (remember those), but it's not hot.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

dlt4 said:


> I don't see any signs of overheating other than the brownish tint on the access card that I mentioned earlier in the thread. It's been running for about two hours now. I've touched the big capacitor in the power supply and other components and the only thing that's even warm is the heat sink next to the power supply.
> 
> It sits on top of a VCR (remember those), but it's not hot.


Hmmm...

There has to be a component source of heat near the card someplace...

At least you've eliminated some of the potentials...thanks.


----------



## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

P Smith said:


> Last few days discussing the issue ... did you open it and check components ?
> running without the cover would tell you if it heat or malfunctioning happening


Several years ago there were issues with the contacts on the cards or readers. You may be able to solve the problem by cleaning the contacts on the card or reader. You can plug the card into another box to see if the card is the problem or the reader. Maybe using a lady's nail file to burnish the contacts gently can make the reader contacts better.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Don't use nail file ! Especially for inserting into card socket !! Some fake credit cards with rough surface - yes.
The socket has contacts with small spot of tiny gold layer - the nail file would remove the spot. 

Alcohol should be enough for the card's contacts, for worst case - pencil eraser, but use it gently.



dvrblogger said:


> Several years ago there were issues with the contacts on the cards or readers. You may be able to solve the problem by cleaning the contacts on the card or reader. You can plug the card into another box to see if the card is the problem or the reader. Maybe using a lady's nail file to burnish the contacts gently can make the reader contacts better.


----------



## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

richierich said:


> I would also suspect a Bad Power Supply Unit as they normally only last about 5 years and then they need to be replaced and it Mimics a Bad or Marginal Hard Drive.
> 
> It starts Bulging when the Capacitors go bad from too much heat over a prolonged period of time.


How about an emery board ?


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dvrblogger said:


> How about an emery board ?


For card socket ? - No !

[You could try use it against brown capacitors, though ]


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

dvrblogger said:


> Several years ago there were issues with the contacts on the cards or readers. You may be able to solve the problem by cleaning the contacts on the card or reader. You can plug the card into another box to see if the card is the problem or the reader. Maybe using a lady's nail file to burnish the contacts gently can make the reader contacts better.


Plugging the access card into the R15 gives me an invalid access card error message, as expected, but does that tell me anything about whether or not the card is good? I also cleaned the card contacts and the contacts in the receiver with alcohol.

I'm also seeing faint wavy lines (like in the old days with poor reception from an antenna) in the picture that I don't see with the R15, and I'm using the same cables to connect both of them to the TV. This started this afternoon, not just since I cleaned the contacts.


----------



## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

In the past 10 years, I have had about 3 cards go bad in my DirecTiVo's.....all different receivers. Once I put replacement card in, everything has been fine since. Typically when I got a 'Please insert valid access card" on a DirecTiVo running 6.4a a simple re-boot fixed it. Other times when I got an "Call Ext. 741" message (I believe it was 741), I needed the new access card. Then everything worked fine.

BTW, my old Sony SAT-A50 and my current SAT-A55 burn cards to the point where they are brown around the chip and very brittle from heat, but never had one fail.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dlt4 said:


> Plugging the access card into the R15 gives me an invalid access card error message, as expected, but does that tell me anything about whether or not the card is good? I also cleaned the card contacts and the contacts in the receiver with alcohol.
> 
> I'm also seeing faint wavy lines (like in the old days with poor reception from an antenna) in the picture that I don't see with the R15, and I'm using the same cables to connect both of them to the TV. This started this afternoon, not just since I cleaned the contacts.


Doesn't looks like the card is the culprit.
Waiving ? Check power cable - especially two prong type and try to reverse it.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

I give up. I think I'm going to pull the plug on the TiVo unit (literally). It ran all yesterday afternoon and evening, with the cover removed, with no problem, other than the wavy lines. I'm not sure why those just started yesterday, unless they're an indication of further problems. Anyway, this morning when I turned on the TV the unit was doing the same old thing, flashing between a blank screen and a picture.

I talked to D* tech support yesterday and the only thing he could suggest was what has been said in this thread, either the access card or the reader. He did think the reader was probably OK because when I put the card from the R15 into the TiVo it gives me the "wrong access card error".


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Doesn't looks like the card is the culprit.
> Waiving ? Check power cable - especially two prong type and try to reverse it.


The only way to do that is to clip off the ends of the one prong on the plug that is larger than the other one. They are polarized for a reason.

Rich


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

rich584 said:


> The only way to do that is to clip off the ends of the one prong on the plug that is larger than the other one. They are polarized for a reason.
> 
> Rich


I'm well aware about 'polarized' plugs, just don't remember what type used with the TiVo, perhaps it' has other variant.


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

P Smith said:


> I'm well aware about 'polarized' plugs, just don't remember what type used with the TiVo, perhaps it' has other variant.


Both the TiVo and the R15 are plugged into the same outlet strip, which is the same one that the TiVo has been plugged into for a long time with no problem. The plug is polarized also.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I would check noise on video outputs by scope. Could be some capacitor(s) 'dried'.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> I'm well aware about 'polarized' plugs, just don't remember what type used with the TiVo, perhaps it' has other variant.


Can't remember when I saw a plug that wasn't polarized except for some double insulated tools. Which should be used with a GFI, no matter what anyone thinks. We almost had a mechanic electrocuted using a double insulated tool without a GFI. Next couple days every mechanic on site had his own GFI.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> I would check noise on video outputs by scope. Could be some capacitor(s) 'dried'.


How many folks do you think have access to, or own a "sillyscope"?

Rich


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

P Smith said:


> I would check noise on video outputs by scope. Could be some capacitor(s) 'dried'.


It just started yesterday. While what you say might be right, I'm just wondering if it's somehow connected with the other problems going on.



rich584 said:


> How many folks do you think have access or own a "sillyscope"?
> 
> Rich


Not any more


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> How many folks do you think have access or own a "sillyscope"?
> 
> Rich


I just happen to have one in my back pocket!!! !rolling


----------



## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

I have a really old Tube type scope in the attic along with a VTVM, & a Tube type signal generator. I just can't bring myself to throw them out. No to mention a tube type console AM/SW/78RPM Record player that also has a cutting head on a separate arm. at one time I had a chassis from a console that had AM/FM/SW where the FM was the old FM band from before our current 88Mhz to 108Mhz band.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dlt4 said:


> Not any more


I used to have one too. Never saw the point in the context of what I was doing, but there it sat. Had one in the Navy too. Nobody ever used that either. I would see Radarmen using them. That would be like an electronic technician. Probably another lost art. Oscilloscopes, I mean.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> I have a really old Tube type scope in the attic along with a VTVM, & a Tube type signal generator. I just can't bring myself to throw them out. No to mention a tube type console AM/SW/78RPM Record player that also has a cutting head on a separate arm. at one time I had a chassis from a console that had AM/FM/SW where the FM was the old FM band from before our current 88Mhz to 108Mhz band.


If any of them work, they might be worth quite a bit of money. Even if they don't work, they might be worth quite a bit of money. Where would you buy vacuum tubes today? Off to Google...Back! Found *this*.

Think of how much a cathedral radio would be worth today if someone had bought one in 1946-47 and sealed it up.

Rich


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

rich584 said:


> How many folks do you think have access to, or own a "sillyscope"?
> 
> Rich


While you could make laugh as you wish, I don' see a replacement of a scope for such tests.
Any useful proposal from Old Navy ?


----------



## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

I've retired the TiVo unit to the MBR until I can watch the handful of shows I have recorded on it. I've watched part of one of the recordings with no problem, even though trying to watch live TV results in the usual intermittent picture. Just a curiosity question, but the problem must not be in the power supply or it would cause problems even trying to watch a recording, right? 

Either way it will be retired to the recycle bin when I've watched my recordings.

Thanks again for all of the inputs. The helpful responses are one of the main reasons I hang out here.


----------



## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

I had a bizzare access card issue that I didn't know was caused by the card or the DVR. When I powered the DVR up by plugging it in, after it came online it would display a message saying "insert valid access card". If I then REMOVED the card and REINSERTED it, programming would begin-but with the wrong time zone!! But if I pushed the red button or restarted it using menu commands, it would restart and work normally.

I got a (free) card replacement and the problem was solved! It's worked perfectly for over 2 years now with the replacement card.

So yes, they do go bad and have problems.


----------

