# History repeats itself here



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

It was over two and a half years ago that Dan Collins over at DBSForums went on an out-of-control rant against DishNetwork - something to do with dishplayers and a proposed class-action suit, which turned out to be a near-death experience. Now, here at DBSTalk, the anti-Dish tide is rising once again over - what else - PVRs. Will it never end?

I just hope that the forum admins here don't get carried away with the tide. 

Fair & balanced, boys. Fair & balanced.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Except for one difference. The 501 (at the time) was rock solid compared to the DishPlayer.


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

I have been trying to work with Dish to help them dig themselves out of this hole, unfortunately what they sent me only dug them deeper. :icon_stup 

I am proud of the response from the membership in regards to the DVR fees, hopefully Dish will see what is going on and they will reverse their decission.

The big problem here I have (well one anyways) is that the Dish 510 is EXACTLY the same as the 501/508 except it has a bigger hard drive. Why the fee for using the DVR service on it?

I would not have a problem if the 510 had new improved software with new features, but besides the bigger drive there is nothing new in it.

Second a lot of people wanted the 921 because of the fact Dish was not charging PVR fees, now "surprise" you have to pay this fee.

Its not that Dish has to charge for DVR features, they are doing it Because they can. (or at least they think they can)

Again lets hope Dish sees these posts and comes up with a better idea. 

I would encourage everyone NOT to drop their Dish Service until this policy effects you, because for most of us it wont phase us until we try upgrading our units, and when they time comes the market will help you decide better what you should do.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

I understand what you are saying Nick. As you have seen in my posts, I am not necessarily "anti-Dish". It was just obvious to me that recent events have upset a lot of people who are now willing to make the switch to DirecTV. The preliminary results of the poll I started prompted me to start the other thread about deals that can be found with DirecTV. 

I did this for 2 reasons. First, to reserve a one stop place for the masses to go and find info about DirecTV retailers. Second, to give a wakeup call to Dish that this is happening. 

I don't plan on being the architect of a crusade against Dish. I'm just giving the defecting users the help they need. That's all.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

The problem is that they announce at the worst possible time... Many E* diehards like me were hanging on for the HDTV package and a 921. Now we find out that they will charge us $10-$15 or so per month for the HDTV package, PLUS additional fees for the DVR. So, if you want the HDTV package with a shiney new 921 and are not an AEP subscriber, you could have $25/month increase in your bills (not to mention $5 for the extra box so maybe $30). I wonder if they thought this through...


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I personally am so comfortable with being with Dish Network that I never have imagined myself being with any other satellite or television provider and perhaps they think that the customers think this as well and would rather pay a little more rather than switch. I hate that this is going on and just wish they would at least have some compromises. I do not only look after myself but my customers as well and that is how I got started in this business. I cannot sell a product that is bad or that I feel that is not the best deal out there. I started selling this product because I liked this product and stood behind a company that I thought was consumer friendly. Times change and with that things change and that is what has happened and Dish is testing their limits in my opinion.

This is why I am also looking for a PC PVR solution rather than switching but the other side is there and the grass seems to be greener on the other side. That does not mean that DirecTv will not also do some of the same things either in the future.

I have also been upset with Dish because of some things they have told my customers such as saying I am not a retailer, not allowing customers to turn their systems on or off at will, being very rude and uncaring, etc. along with multiple errors within such a short period of time after they tried charging me $100 above retail to sell systems through them in which they blame me for why the customers did not pay their bill, try to charge $60 a year to demo their product then try to charge these fees onto the consumers as well, nickel and dime, all of this in a small amount of time is just way too much, and it has to stop somewhere, sometime.


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## music_beans (Mar 21, 2003)

> It was over two and a half years ago that Dan Collins over at DBSForums went on an out-of-control rant against DishNetwork - something to do with dishplayers and a proposed class-action suit, which turned out to be a near-death experience. Now, here at DBSTalk, the anti-Dish tide is rising once again over - what else - PVRs. Will it never end?


Does anyone have a link to that out-of-this-world rant?


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Here it is:

http://www.dbsforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=000969

Quite a ridiculous endeavor in hind sight.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

I suspect that the DVR business has proven to be very unprofitable to E*. From posts I’ve read here and elsewhere, a lot of them are returned for various reasons and, since they have moving parts, they’re much more likely to need maintenance. Many posts mention having returned several before getting one that works. I believe the imposition of a fee is Charlie’s way to recoup money that the company has been losing on these items.

When they were a novelty, Charlie may have absorbed the losses with the expectation that the added functionality would bring in new customers. Now that DVR’s are coming to cable, though, that strategy is no longer valid.

Grandfathering the 501, 508 and 721 means that we who have them needn’t worry about fees. But I suspect those models will be out of production soon (already are?) . Anyone who wants a DVR in the future won’t be able to buy one of those models new. Hint - hint: if you really want a no-fee DISH DVR, get one now while they’re still on the shelves. Their price on eBay will probably be rising...

By the way, I have used the DirecTiVo and believe it to be a superior product in all respects. Possibly D* is making money with it, particularly with the data collection/selling strategy. It appears to me that D* thought the whole thing through a good bit more before initiating service than Charlie did.

Kicking and screaming about the DVR fee may result in them being eliminated, but if that happens (and my suspicion about DVR losses is correct), I suspect Charlie will impose a general price increase. After all, SOMEbody has to pay for the extra costs of the DVR’s...


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

And the consumers are supposed to pay for the mistakes Dish made in making a bad product to begin with?


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## bills976 (Jun 30, 2002)

I think the admins here have done a remarkable job in keeping out of this whole Echostar debacle. By not trying to inflame the issue, Chris, Scott, Mark, Steve, Neil, John, and Z'Loth have shown that they actually care about the site rather than letting it go down the drain. Thank you!


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> And the consumers are supposed to pay for the mistakes Dish made in making a bad product to begin with?


Actually, yes. This is the way the market works.



> By not trying to inflame the issue, Chris, Scott, Mark, Steve, Neil, John, and Z'Loth have shown that they actually care about the site rather than letting it go down the drain.


Agree, even though I don't think the charge is that big of a deal. Dish has pretty much had the software issue under control (with small exceptions) since the demise of the DishPlayer. Hopefully having a charge attached will allow for the hiring of more software guys and the development of better software and features in the future.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Rking401 said:


> Agree, even though I don't think the charge is that big of a deal. Dish has pretty much had the software issue under control (with small exceptions) since the demise of the DishPlayer. Hopefully having a charge attached will allow for the hiring of more software guys and the development of better software and features in the future.


But what i've seen as a running thread in discussions of E* payscales, they seem to pay below the going rate across the board. You tend to not get the best developers when you don't "Attract" them with decent salaries and other perks. I guess you can "home grow" the developers, but how long before they are fast, efficient and make it worth the fee to the subs... The bad economy is the only thing going for E* in getting "cheap" developers.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Ahh, excuse me, but now over a week later do you still think E has the software issues ironed out?

No, they are still there and likely a major cause of the fee. All that tech support for buggy receivers cost big bucks.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

I don't know how I let this earlier comment by RKing401 slip by...

_"...since the demise of the DishPlayer"_

Richard, reports of the demise of the Dishplayer are greatly exaggerated. I own two well-performing 7200s that are alive and well, and in use every day. I think it is ironic that many subs have moved on to newer PVRs and are reporting all manner of problems while my two DPs, with their elegant graphics, nine-day EPG and name-based recordings just keep on running smoothly and doing what they were designed to do.

Add to all that the convenience of the wireless keyboard for conducting global searches of guide data, and you have the makings of a happy DBS camper. I will only retire my beloved DPs if and when the 921 _ever_ ships, and there is sufficient HD content to make the $uper-$ized inve$tment in HD hardware worthwhile.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

Watch it Nick...Fox News will sue you!
Nick wrote:

"Fair & balanced, boys. Fair & balanced."


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## John Hodgson (Mar 28, 2002)

"Here it is:

http://www.dbsforums.com/cgi-bin/ul...c;f=29;t=000969

Quite a ridiculous endeavor in hind sight.

"

Ah, but take a look at all the illustrious names whom offered their support :sure:


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Page could not be found.


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## John Hodgson (Mar 28, 2002)

http://www.dbsforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=000969

Works on my end.


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