# Retailer Chat - Nov 25, 2003



## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Today's Retailer Chat.. Few details for now (maybe more later) :

Dec Dish 500 local launches (no definate dates yet):
Dish 500 Targetted Markets:
Bakersfield, CA
Grand Junction, CO
Hartford and New Haven, CT
Sherman, TX - Ada, OK (or i think it was Sherman anyhow - would have to double-check)

Wow..lots of info ... can't keep up... Wow!!! 

105 Dec Launches:
Dec 4 - Dayton, OH
Dec, Fr. Smith (no definate date yet)

OK - Important info!!!!!!!!! below:

Springfield locals are moving to Dish 500 (from 105), Effective - Nov 26 ( i think.. i hope i heard it correctly)... Missing NBC + Fox for now...

OK - here is the Biggie!!!!! - New decision by DISHnet - Locals at 121 !!!!!!!!!

(cuz 121 signal is strong and available to all USA)

cuz of that - 4 present 105 locals are moving to 121 !!!!!!!!!

Only 4 cities effected:

Albany
Boisse
Missula (i think.. not even sure now)
Madisson

Here is the scoop - those will be simulcasting now at both 105 and 121 locations.. and later when all are switched to 121 - will leave 105!!!

Installers/Dealers to continue 105 installations for those till Dec 8 (i think)
At that date, inventory of 121 SuperDishes will be available and new Installs for those locals will be done at 121 with 121's superDish...

On Dec 8 also - will be in stock - some assembly - "swap out feeds" (or something) to convirt current 105 local customers to 121 (for those 4 effected cities)

Now!!!!! - cuz 121 will have locals now - Future locals to go to 121 location:

Flint - Dec 11
Millwaukie - Dec 11
Lansing - Dec 18
Green Bay - no definate date yet - but will go to 121 (not sure now - but i think December)
Traverse city (?? - not 100% sure now but i think it's the one) - no definate date yet - but will go to 121 (not sure now - but i think December)

Hehe - commercial now - "Stop Feeding the Pig" - New television ads, Print ads, Radio Scripts - to Stop Feeding the Pig .. Cable i guess 

In January 2004 - no definate date yet - Deluth's locals will be launched.. at Dish 500

I think at this point will become 101 Locals launched!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

IMPORTANT:

I think HD is moving to 110 .. and maybe some would be still at 61.5 and 148... but i think they will not be at 105...

I think for now - 105 will be locals only 
and 121 - Internationals and locals..

811 - can order Dec 1 - i think will be $399 / $599 (if SuperDish is needed)

921 i think coming soon too (in Limited quantities for starters)
Wholesale price - Will not mention
Suggested Retail price - $999

"FREE DISH" promo coming with Commitment - $500 dollars OFF!!!!!
The Bundle package (that includes HD Television)
Without this promo - $1499, with this promo and commitment - i think will be $999
Same deal, but will include 921 model instead:
The Bundle package (that includes HD Television)
Without this promo - $1999, with this promo and commitment - i think will be $1499


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

DISH do not forsee - 50 HD channels in near future...
They are just not around 

They think though - around 10 or 20 HD channels - they ll be able to do at Dish 500

If at a future date (who knows when) will be Much More then 20 HD channels around, then obviously some sort of new configuration would be required (new setup)... to get those..

But WILL NOT happen any time soon...

However if anyone wants (is willing to) install Both setups NOW (Dish 500 and a SuperDISH i guess) - they are Welcome to do so


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Sorry - but may i add  - Very, very interesting and unique Retailer Chat today!!!!!


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks for the info, Darkman.

No Evansville?


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Next Retailer Chat - Dec 16 - 2003, 12 NOON Eastern time

Next Charlie Chat - Dec 8, 9 P.M. - Eastern time

P.S. - Charlie said at the end - "Do you realize starting this holiday week, it's 23 years Me and Jim are doing this, .. 23 years ago - we put up the First system... - It's been quite a RIDE!!!"


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

JBKing said:


> Thanks for the info, Darkman.
> 
> No Evansville?


None that i recall mentioned..
Unless i missed it.. (was too much info.. and they were talking fast)
Will have to check later again...


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

I would like to publically thank Darkman for taking time out of his busy schedule to post this information. You're da man!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Thanks for the kind words of confidence... - LOL - sometimes i try...


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## jay99 (Nov 6, 2003)

With all the changes, if I was scheduled for a Superdish install next week to get locals (Baltimore), it sounds like it should go on as planned?

Thanks,

Jay


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## Matt Stevens (Jul 30, 2003)

921 first week of December. TOLD YOU! Yoohoo!!!!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Chattanooga, TN - at 105 sat - Launching Nov 25, 2003


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Wow! HD channels moving to 110. Now that begs the question, is there enough bandwidth at 110 to handle most of the HD channels? Will PQ suffer?


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

So much for hopes of East and West feeds of HBO-HD, and SHO-HD.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

Doesn't seem to me they will add many more HD channels, how will they generate room at 110?


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## jlhugh (Oct 28, 2003)

I bet they start moving locals off of 110 to make room for the HD. People with HD will put up a OTA so they can get their HD locals anyway. Looks like the Superdish is going to be on hold for awhile.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

Darkman said:


> In January 2004 - no definate date yet - Deluth's locals will be launched.. at Dish 500


WOOO HOOO!! Duluth, MN is coming January...TO DISH500!!!!!!!

"Hello, Dish Network..I need to change my service address"

Darkman, even though you spelled it wrong...You just made my day! I was hoping for Duluth locals for a while and when they were going to go to SuperDish I was mad because you couldnt "move" with a SD...Then when they dropped off the radar (due to MN not being in the footprint) I was downright p***ed. Now I'm happy.

Thank You Charlie for making my Christmas!! Now I can just hope they are up right at the beginning of January.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

If they move locals off 110, then Dish is going to force people to upgrade to Superdish?......I can't see that working.

There really isn't alot of HD OTA available.


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## forklifter (Dec 21, 2002)

Do I understand this Are all locals moving to 121 or just the new ones that are going up in the next few weeks


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

Sigh, he asks knowing the answer to be negative
"Anything on the 522 at all??"

John


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

forklifter, 
those are moving from 105 to 121 only:
Only 4 cities effected:

Albany
Boisse
Missula (i think.. not even sure now)
Madisson

Upcoming new ones for 121 location:
Future locals to go to 121 location:

Flint - Dec 11
Millwaukie - Dec 11
Lansing - Dec 18
Green Bay - no definate date yet - but will go to 121 (not sure now - but i think December)
Traverse city (?? - not 100% sure now but i think it's the one) - no definate date yet - but will go to 121 (not sure now - but i think December)


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

Madison WI at 121. NOW I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH TREES IN THE WAY FOR 121! Now this in addition to...

A) roof mount not reccomended.
B) Pole install ain't gonna work for my situation
C) Who the hell knows where a wall mount may work. Putting Duluth on 110 and not Madison on 110? They already have Madison WI folks waiting 1 to 2 months for installs when they launched November 6th meanwhile retailers don't even have an order for the SuperDishes and people are on waiting lists exceeding 10's to 100's of people!!! 

Talk about backed up! Can this get any worse?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

I guess they just can't make EVERYONE happy 
lol - physically impossible..

There' ll always be someone out there with a seemingly "short end of this stick" 

as they say - for "different folks - different strokes are needed often" ))))


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

I just called my retailer and he is PISSED! His direct words were "double-hell" LOL. He now has to send all the Superdish LNBs back and get the 121 ones now. He also was stating how if the SuperDish is just bumped an inch the 105 signal goes out. He tried a couple of test installations already and is really fustrated. I told him Duluth is gonna go on 110 and I swear I heard some electronic parts being tossed across the room. He's a hoot he's been in the business for 40 years.


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## Matt Stevens (Jul 30, 2003)

121 will eventually be filled to the hilt with locals. According to my friend at E* (who I just chatted with) once the Superdish is installed at a substantial number of customer locations, they will start to move content from 110 and 119 over to it. Most likely locals.

BUT... anything can happen/change before then. E* is in serious flux right now in regards to everything.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

It would be nice if they moved all the locals off the wings to 121/105. Then everyone could have a single dish solution for locals.


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

My retailer also mentioned he is upset the 121 elevation is so much lower than 105. 31 compared to 38. Tack on another bite in the butt!


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

ehren said:


> I told him Duluth is gonna go on 110 and I swear I heard some electronic parts being tossed across the room. He's a hoot he's been in the business for 40 years.


Ehren
MN wasn't even part of the original SuperDish plan (Madison was). Also, 110 Spotbeam 8 is used for Minneapolis and does reach to Duluth but not Madison. So they probably would put Duluth stations (5 of them) on Sportbeam 8.


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## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

Matt Stevens said:


> ...According to my friend at E* ...


Reminds me of a YOUNG someONE that used to post.


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## xgrep (Aug 15, 2002)

Matt Stevens said:


> BUT... anything can happen/change before then. E* is in serious flux right now in regards to everything.


The man has a knack for understatement. 

And thanks, Darkman, if you didn't catch my thank-you in Mark's thread on the retailer chat. This is absolutely great info.

x


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> he's been in the business for 40 years


Neat trick.


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## texas39 (Nov 11, 2003)

Yep  It's Sherman TX (CBS channel 12) and ADA OK(NBC Channel 10) We're going on 110 I last heard.
Some Delay in Cheyenne,last i heard, whatever that is about..



Darkman said:


> Today's Retailer Chat.. Few details for now (maybe more later) :
> 
> Dec Dish 500 local launches (no definate dates yet):
> Dish 500 Targetted Markets:
> ...


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

BTW: Boise, Missoula, Albany and Madison have already been mirrored on 121.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Ahh remember my Crystall Ball thread from at least 2 weeks ago? My source at the time believed both superdish slots would get locals. It wasnt a sure thing but thats what he believed would occur. He wasnt certain about HD it could of been mirrored on both slots.

Despite my rantings here my sources who BTW are also concerned about things have stuck with me. 

Now who said my predictions are poor


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## Chucky (Jul 21, 2002)

Bob,

You should seriously think about finding a different hobby other than blowing sunshine up our you know what.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Chucky, sorry if I upset you somehow. I did though predict both superdish slots would be used for locals and that did occur.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Chucky, sorry if I upset you somehow. I did though predict both superdish slots would be used for locals and that did occur.


I was predicting E* would eventually place locals on both 121 and 105 several months ago and I have no secret sources, it just made since to me  .


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

It could also be that dish is in negotiations for another satellite slot... Or maybe they intend to use their KA band one day for HD... They probably figure 110 will tide them over until they do whatever they are thinking of doing.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bob Haller said:


> Ahh remember my Crystall Ball thread from at least 2 weeks ago? ...
> Now who said my predictions are poor


 Want a show of hands? 


> I did though predict both superdish slots would be used for locals and that did occur.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but TECHNICALLY you are not right.
Both slots are NOT going to be LILs. 105 LILs are only there temporarily, until 121 dishes replace all existing SuperDish installations in each market. Then there will NOT be LILs on 105 and 121 (they will be just 121).

It took a major problem to get LILs on 121, and there is no guarantee that LILs will ever return to 105. (I suspect they will.)

JL


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## mlcarson (Jul 4, 2003)

Is all the foreign programming staying on 121? What's going to be on 105 and for how long?



justalurker said:


> Want a show of hands?
> 
> Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but TECHNICALLY you are not right.
> Both slots are NOT going to be LILs. 105 LILs are only there temporarily, until 121 dishes replace all existing SuperDish installations in each market. Then there will NOT be LILs on 105 and 121 (they will be just 121).
> ...


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

justalurker said:


> Both slots are NOT going to be LILs. 105 LILs are only there temporarily, until 121 dishes replace all existing SuperDish installations in each market. Then there will NOT be LILs on 105 and 121 (they will be just 121).


OK.

Which slot is Baltimore on? (105)
Is Baltimore moving? (no)

Then Baltimore will be staying on 105, and Bob is technically correct.


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

Thanks Darkman.

I believe Missoula is in Montana and Traverse City is in Michigan.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Greg Bimson said:


> OK.
> 
> Which slot is Baltimore on? (105)
> Is Baltimore moving? (no)
> ...


WOW greg agreed with me

Theres enough room for all the internationals plus a bunch of LIL on one of the superdishes. Things are so Dishorganized they likely avent decided for sure

Hopefully Dishorganized is a JOKE, long term but lately it applies.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Current trivia:

LOCALS COUNT PER LOCATION
119 CONUS 16 
119 SPOTS 226 
61.5 71 
110 CONUS 55 
110 SPOTS 235 
148 65 
129 0 
121 23 
105 134 

TOTAL LOCAL CHANNELS = 825 

TOTAL CHANNELS IN THE SYSTEM = 1650


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

Surprise, Bob.

For that matter, what happens to Columbia (SC), Richmond, Greensboro, Columbus (OH), or Wichita? All are at 105, and there have been no plans announced to move those.


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## mattb (Apr 29, 2002)

JohnH said:


> Current trivia:
> 
> LOCALS COUNT PER LOCATION
> 119 CONUS 16
> ...


You forgot the channels uplinked to 157 to keep it "warm" even though not available to subscribers


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## wiggy (Sep 16, 2003)

After reading the forums, that Charley suggested we get a dish for 105, I called E. They said it would be $99.00 installed. I then asked if I had any locals on any other satellite other than 110 and 119. He said yes that I have one on 148. Since I have one local that I am not getting they are installing a dish Monday free. As of now the HD channels that aren't on 110 are mirrored from 105 to 148. So I will have HBO HD and Demo channel. I just had my DHP codes removed and had installed my 6000 and what a fabulous picture. If anyone has any doubt about the difference in quality, just toggle between the regular ESPN and ESPN HD when they are showing an HD program. I have my 6000 hooked up to a Toshiba 16.9 direct view via component inputs. When the 921 comes out, it will be interesting the difference if any that DVI makes. Thankx for the great info.
Wiggy


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

mattb said:


> You forgot the channels uplinked to 157 to keep it "warm" even though not available to subscribers


157 is not part of the DISH Network system. It does not show in the tables at all. When it does, I will include it.


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## markh (Mar 24, 2002)

Does moving Madison to 121 solve the problem I saw mentioned here with Wisconsin recieving the 105 location? What I'm wondering is 121 a higher powered sat than 105? Ehren also mentioned his dealer having a hard time with 105 aiming being very touchy.

They must be doing for some reason other than frustrating Ehren and his dealer.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Yes 121 is higher powered. Should make alignment a bit easier.


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## mattyro (Nov 26, 2002)

Here is the 64 thousand dollar question: will cbs-HD go to 110* and what other hd's will join it? I qualify for distant locals therefore if cbs goes to 110, I will finally have accomplished a 3 year quest: watching CBSHD in my own home !!!!!


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

mattyro said:


> Here is the 64 thousand dollar question: will cbs-HD go to 110* and what other hd's will join it? I qualify for distant locals therefore if cbs goes to 110, I will finally have accomplished a 3 year quest: watching CBSHD in my own home !!!!!


No one really knows yet. Most of what I have read so far, the thought is NO. I wish it would then I could get rid of both 61.5 & 148. All we can do is wait and see what they actually do.

PS its NOT distant locals. :nono2:


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## ehren (Aug 3, 2003)

well Dish says they listen to feedback, send them your input.


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## texas39 (Nov 11, 2003)

I was told somewhere on here last week that Sherman locals were waiting on a 'Back haul problem' in Cheyenne.

Does anyone know what this means?? or have any more info on Sherman Tx/ ADA Ok locals??


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## PoppaNovember (Nov 26, 2003)

If I follow all the discussions correctly, it looks like I won't need a superdish in the DC area because my locals are on 110 (with the exception of one PBS station at 65) and the HD channels I desperately want are also slated for 110. My Dish 500 should cover all this....... right???

But did Charlie say anything about a package for existing customers for the 811 other than the package that includes a TV set that I don't need?

I've heard off and on that Dish will be offering an 811 for some kind of commitment agreement, but other than the HD bundle with the TV set, I don't see it mentioned.

Any news??

Regards,

PN


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## Flyboy917 (Oct 25, 2003)

Ok, I live in Wichita and I DO need Superdish to get locals...for now anyway. 
My question is....am I still going to need a second dish (with Superdish) to recieve all HD programing?

JT


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## Terry Foss (Aug 11, 2003)

So, is Wichita going to be on 105? Just wondering, I live western KS.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Second dish for all HD. Probably.

Wichita is on 105.


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

Wichita - 105


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

A long time ago DISH had something like 5 clear transponders at DISH 500 location.


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## jerryez (Nov 15, 2002)

See this thread for a list of what is on all transponders:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=20816


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I have thought for a good while that the locals would be on both slots, that some subscribers would need one type of SuperDish for 105 and the other SuperDish for 121. With Dish wanting to add all the local markets (210 of them) there is probably not enough room on one of those slots but at least a part of another one would also be needed and the rest be used for HD (if their future plans change from having all new additions go to 110) and for internationals.


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