# Anyone have a Nest thermostat? Questions for ya...



## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I recently installed a Nest thermostat upstairs and downstairs--I've got a dual zone HVAC system--and have it connected to my Amazon Echo. I've got a question setting it to control both cooling and heating. I have no problem doing one or the other; rather, the confusion centers around when the overnights dip down into the 30s or 40s or so, the heat needs to go on for a brief time. During the afternoons temps go into the 80s, so I need to AC to kick in. 

I think I'm a bit confused how to set this up via Alexa. My Nests are labeled very simply as "Upstairs" and "Downstairs." Alexa has no problem when I tell her to do something like, "Set upstairs to 72°" or something similar. However, this works easily when my Nest is set to cooling or heating only. If I tell Alexa to set upstairs to heating 72°, or something similar, she doesn't recognize the named device.

I guess I'm looking to better understand how to use Alexa to control my Nest when it needs to do heating and cooling on the same day. Should I first make sure the Nests are set for Heat/Cool?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

I have a Nest but for heating only. So not sure about your question but I will give it a try. 

If you tell the Nest to set the house for 62 and the house currently sits at 70 it should turn on the cool system automatically. If the house sits at 60 and you tell the Nest to set for 72 it should kick in the heat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is a link to an article on the Nest support site about using Alexa.
Nest Thermostat, Nest Protect and Nest Cam support

From the link:

Alexa will control your Nest Thermostat a bit differently when it's in Heat • Cool mode, which can automatically switch between heating and cooling as needed. For instance, if you ask Alexa to set the temperature to 72 degrees, both the lower and upper limit of your thermostat's temperature range will be set to 70-74 degree range. Alexa will confirm your request, saying "Hallway is in heat-cool mode, aiming for 72 degrees".


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Thanks!


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Lord Vader said:


> Thanks!


You are welcome.

I do not have 1 of these but my Honeywell does the auto switching. I can set it so the AC comes on at 73 and the heat comes on at 71. I definitely love it. Where I am located that is a daily happening for about 5 months of the year. The rest of the time it is full blast AC.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I can empathize with that, as I'm in Houston.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> I do not have 1 of these but my Honeywell does the auto switching. I can set it so the AC comes on at 73 and the heat comes on at 71. I definitely love it. Where I am located that is a daily happening for about 5 months of the year. The rest of the time it is full blast AC.


Do you (or *Anakin*) have forced air? I have a Wi-Fi enabled thermostat and I still have to go downstairs to switch the damper to "winter" or "summer" when switching between A/C and the furnace.

Rich


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

No. No need for me to do that.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> No. No need for me to do that.


No, you don't have forced air? Have a heat pump?

Rich


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Sorry about the confusion. Yes, my system is a forced air, but I don't have to switch between seasons.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Do you (or *Anakin*) have forced air? I have a Wi-Fi enabled thermostat and I still have to go downstairs to switch the damper to "winter" or "summer" when switching between A/C and the furnace.
> 
> Rich


I have a variable speed bower inside the house and a 2 stage AC compressor outside. I use gas for my heat since it is so much cheaper.
My blower starts up slowly and gets to 70% full speed. If it does not get the thermostat where it wants it in 7 minutes, it then kicks up to full speed . Note that the AC or Heat also changes with the blower speeds. When the temp gets right it then slows down until it finally stops. On moderate temp days it usually hits the thermostat setting on the first 7 minutes. This thermostat keeps the house within plus or minus .5 degreed of the setting.
This system is consistently saving me 20% over my old single speed fan, single speed AC compressor. There are newer ones now that have variable speed AC compressor that are supposed to be even better.
Do yourself a favor and check out the new technology if / when you have to replace your unit.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Considering the furnace is new, as the house was built and finished last June, I believe it's one of the more technologically advanced HVAC units available.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

I have forced air myself and have never seen a system like you are describing, Rich. On my unit the evaporator coil sits on top of the furnace and the air flow path never changes. When heat is called for the burner turns on and when cooling is needed the compressor outside fires up.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I have a variable speed bower inside the house and a 2 stage AC compressor outside. I use gas for my heat since it is so much cheaper.
> My blower starts up slowly and gets to 70% full speed. If it does not get the thermostat where it wants it in 7 minutes, it then kicks up to full speed . Note that the AC or Heat also changes with the blower speeds. When the temp gets right it then slows down until it finally stops. On moderate temp days it usually hits the thermostat setting on the first 7 minutes. This thermostat keeps the house within plus or minus .5 degreed of the setting.
> This system is consistently saving me 20% over my old single speed fan, single speed AC compressor. There are newer ones now that have variable speed AC compressor that are supposed to be even better.
> *Do yourself a favor and check out the new technology if / when you have to replace your unit.*


Just has a new furnace and A/C system installed a week ago. It has what you listed above. I could have gotten an electronic damper put on the system for about a grand more but the cost was already sky high and I'd had enough of their pricing. I did try several companies and all had the same pricing. I wanted to try a Lennox system and that's what I got.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

longrider said:


> I have forced air myself and have never seen a system like you are describing, Rich. On my unit the evaporator coil sits on top of the furnace and the air flow path never changes. When heat is called for the burner turns on and when cooling is needed the compressor outside fires up.


You must have a damper that's controlled by the thermostat. Without that the damper has to be changed manually. I can just call for heat or cooling from the thermostat but I know I'd be seeing condensate puddles in my basement. I'd reached the end of my patience with the companies I had in for bids on a new system and just wasn't gonna go any deeper with upgrades...maybe I should have. The rather expensive thermostat I got would have controlled the damper but $1000 more? Nah, it only takes a moment to switch the dampers manually. We've never had to go from heat to A/C instantaneously. I can see why Jimmie has to do that where he lives.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

longrider said:


> I have forced air myself and have never seen a system like you are describing, Rich. On my unit the evaporator coil sits on top of the furnace and the air flow path never changes. When heat is called for the burner turns on and when cooling is needed the compressor outside fires up.


This is the way mine is also, except mine is lying horizontal on the floor in the attic.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> You must have a damper that's controlled by the thermostat. Without that the damper has to be changed manually. I can just call for heat or cooling from the thermostat but I know I'd be seeing condensate puddles in my basement. I'd reached the end of my patience with the companies I had in for bids on a new system and just wasn't gonna go any deeper with upgrades...maybe I should have. The rather expensive thermostat I got would have controlled the damper but $1000 more? Nah, it only takes a moment to switch the dampers manually. We've never had to go from heat to A/C instantaneously. I can see why Jimmie has to do that where he lives.
> 
> Rich


I am certain the units up north are different from the ones we have here.

I also have a Lennox system. My unit ( 5 ton AC ) was about $3,000 more than the base model. At the time Lennox did not have the variable speed AC compressors or I would have gotten that.
Trane had them but they were over $4,000 more than what I got.
My sisters both got Trane's with the variable compressors. They both love them. Saving them money and very quiet blowers. I can't say that my blower is quiet. You definitely know it when it cranks up to 100%.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

jimmie57 said:


> *This system is consistently saving me 20% over my old single speed fan, single speed AC compressor.* There are newer ones now that have variable speed AC compressor that are supposed to be even better.
> Do yourself a favor and check out the new technology if / when you have to replace your unit.


Until you have to fix it. I just paid $1,100 to have a TXV replaced on mine. 

Mine is a Lennox Signature 5 ton also. Nine years old and will probably have to replace the other TXV and the compressor in the next couple of years.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Herdfan said:


> Until you have to fix it. I just paid $1,100 to have a TXV replaced on mine.
> 
> Mine is a Lennox Signature 5 ton also. Nine years old and will probably have to replace the other TXV and the compressor in the next couple of years.


That would not be nice. Most of mine have lasted 16 to 19 years before they needed major work.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> This is the way mine is also, except mine is lying horizontal on the floor in the attic.


I'd be praying that evaporator coil doesn't spring a leak, I've had that happen three or four times. All I saw was a puddle that got sucked up each time the fan came on. In your situation, you would have more serious problems. The house across the court from us had a similar setup with the air handler in the attic. Started leaking and they had to go to a more conventional setup similar to mine with the A coil above the furnace. That sounds simple but it wasn't.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I am certain the units up north are different from the ones we have here.
> 
> I also have a Lennox system. My unit ( 5 ton AC ) was about $3,000 more than the base model. At the time Lennox did not have the variable speed AC compressors or I would have gotten that.
> Trane had them but they were over $4,000 more than what I got.
> My sisters both got Trane's with the variable compressors. They both love them. Saving them money and very quiet blowers. I can't say that my blower is quiet. You definitely know it when it cranks up to 100%.


How big (in square feet) is your house? Mine is about 2500 square feet and that came out to a 4 ton unit on each company's test. 5 tons seems a bit large.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

longrider said:


> I have forced air myself and have never seen a system like you are describing, Rich. On my unit the evaporator coil sits on top of the furnace and the air flow path never changes. When heat is called for the burner turns on and when cooling is needed the compressor outside fires up.


Mmm. I should have been clearer about the dampers. The line the dampers are in connects the furnace to the humidifier, if I don't switch the positions of the dampers I'll get condensate on the line and it will cause puddles and general wetness in the area. Gets kinda sticky.

Rich


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## freerein100 (Dec 14, 2007)

Tonnage is based on a heat load calculation so different houses may need more or less depending on window type and number, insulation type and building materials. You can search for j-calc for an idea

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> How big (in square feet) is your house? Mine is about 2500 square feet and that came out to a 4 ton unit on each company's test. 5 tons seems a bit large.
> 
> Rich


2240
Mine too, 4 tons calculated, but when it is 96 degrees or over a 4 ton just will not keep the house cool like we want it, 73. My old 4 ton ran from 10am til 10 pm before it ever shut off during the very hot days.
Also, that is the beauty of the 2 stage compressor. When it runs for that initial 7 minutes it is at 70% so that is basically a 3.5 ton during that time.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

freerein100 said:


> Tonnage is based on a heat load calculation so different houses may need more or less depending on window type and number, insulation type and building materials. You can search for j-calc for an idea
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


I just had the load tests done by several bidders, I know what they were doing.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> 2240
> Mine too, 4 tons calculated, but when it is 96 degrees or over a 4 ton just will not keep the house cool like we want it, 73. My old 4 ton ran from 10am til 10 pm before it ever shut off during the very hot days.
> Also, that is the beauty of the 2 stage compressor. When it runs for that initial 7 minutes it is at 70% so that is basically a 3.5 ton during that time.


Figured you'd need a bigger unit than we do. The heat and humidity in your area always astounded me when I got off the plane.

Initially, the compressor is performing as a dehumidifier then when that's done it switches to cooling. I hope we have a better summer than we had last year in the house. My old A/C unit could not keep up with the heat.

This is my first time using a Lennox system. I can only hope it performs better than the too small 3 ton Carrier unit did. The company that installed the last two Carrier systems really screwed up. I had a furnace that was way too large (110,000 BTUs) and the A/C was, obviously, too small. We're really happy with the blower motor, so quiet...the old motor sounded like a waterfall.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Figured you'd need a bigger unit than we do. The heat and humidity in your area always astounded me when I got off the plane.
> 
> Initially, the compressor is performing as a dehumidifier then when that's done it switches to cooling. I hope we have a better summer than we had last year in the house. My old A/C unit could not keep up with the heat.
> 
> ...


My furnace works like my AC. First heat is 70,000 btu and then if needed it jumps to 100,000 btu.
My fuel for the heat is natural gas. I have it also for cooking which is non existent here in my house, hot water heater and clothes dryer. In the summer without using the heat my bill for the gas is about $20 per month. I think the highest heating bill I have had this sort of winter was about $67.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> My furnace works like my AC. First heat is 70,000 btu and then if needed it jumps to 100,000 btu.
> My fuel for the heat is natural gas. I have it also for cooking which is non existent here in my house, hot water heater and clothes dryer. In the summer without using the heat my bill for the gas is about $20 per month. I think the highest heating bill I have had this sort of winter was about $67.


Do you have/need a humidifier? The furnace I had was 110,000 BTUs, all the load tests showed that was way too big.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Do you have/need a humidifier? The furnace I had was 110,000 BTUs, all the load tests showed that was way too big.
> 
> Rich


Just the opposite. Probably a DEhumidifier.
The gage reads 76% right now on the wall next to me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Just the opposite. Probably a DEhumidifier.
> The gage reads 76% right now on the wall next to me.


That's why you don't have to switch dampers. I was wondering about the need for a humidifier where you live. If I may ask, have you lived there all your life? Are you used to the heat and humidity? I like Texas, always enjoyed my trips there, but the heat and humidity...wow! I never got out of the area south of Houston so my experiences there are limited.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> That's why you don't have to switch dampers. I was wondering about the need for a humidifier where you live. If I may ask, have you lived there all your life? Are you used to the heat and humidity? I like Texas, always enjoyed my trips there, but the heat and humidity...wow! I never got out of the area south of Houston so my experiences there are limited.
> 
> Rich


Came from Savannah, GA in 1965 and been in this town ever since then. The heat is a lot to deal with for sure. I make sure I cut the grass early in the mornings before it gets too terribly hot. The thing about here is that the Gulf breeze keeps the temps up at night. Some nights our low will be 80 and above. We had several days in a row above 100 last summer. With this very warm winter I am very skeptical of what kind of hot summer we will have this year.
You all crank your cars to warm them in the winter before getting into them. We crank our in the summer to cool them off before we get in them.

I like being out of the big city of Houston but it is not too far away if I need something I can not get here.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Our house is a 5 BR two story with a family room that has a 20 foot ceiling and thus is exposed to second floor hallway. Two zone forced air with Honeywell thermostats up and down. The original system was a Lennox with attic furnace with thermostat controlled damper. The furnace and compressor both gave trouble to the point where they have been replaced by Comfortmaster units. The damper remains, but as far as I know, doesn't work properly. With the open space between the first and second floors, the two zones fight with one another for heat or cooling because of poor ducting with no duct dampers for individual rooms. To fix all the problems would be extremely costly, so we live with it, despite the fact that doing nothing is costly over a period of time.
My younger son took pity on us last Christmas and bought my older son a Nest thermostat as a gift. It remains unopened, because it wouldn't solve our problem.
Homes similar to ours were later built with two furnaces and two A/C compressors.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

To add onto the Tonnage. I have a 2800sqt house 3 years old and have a 2 ton system. Heats and Cools perfectly.. I also have a nest and love it


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Came from Savannah, GA in 1965 and been in this town ever since then. The heat is a lot to deal with for sure. I make sure I cut the grass early in the mornings before it gets too terribly hot. The thing about here is that the Gulf breeze keeps the temps up at night. Some nights our low will be 80 and above. We had several days in a row above 100 last summer. With this very warm winter I am very skeptical of what kind of hot summer we will have this year.
> You all crank your cars to warm them in the winter before getting into them. We crank our in the summer to cool them off before we get in them.
> 
> I like being out of the big city of Houston but it is not too far away if I need something I can not get here.


So you never really get used to the heat? I've always wondered about that. The main reason I had a new system put in was what happened last summer. We pretty much stayed in the 90's thru late July into early October. Most miserable summer of my life. Our A/C ran continuously during that period and most of the house was hot, the A/C just couldn't cope with the heat.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> So you never really get used to the heat? I've always wondered about that. The main reason I had a new system put in was what happened last summer. We pretty much stayed in the 90's thru late July into early October. Most miserable summer of my life. Our A/C ran continuously during that period and most of the house was hot, the A/C just couldn't cope with the heat.
> 
> Rich


The heat combined with the humidity being high almost every day is bad. I hear that the heat in dry places is not so bad but I have never been to one of those places.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Cholly said:


> Our house is a 5 BR two story with a family room that has a 20 foot ceiling and thus is exposed to second floor hallway. Two zone forced air with Honeywell thermostats up and down. The original system was a Lennox with attic furnace with thermostat controlled damper. The furnace and compressor both gave trouble to the point where they have been replaced by Comfortmaster units. The damper remains, but as far as I know, doesn't work properly. With the open space between the first and second floors, the two zones fight with one another for heat or cooling because of poor ducting with no duct dampers for individual rooms. To fix all the problems would be extremely costly, so we live with it, despite the fact that doing nothing is costly over a period of time.
> My younger son took pity on us last Christmas and bought my older son a Nest thermostat as a gift. It remains unopened, because it wouldn't solve our problem.
> Homes similar to ours were later built with two furnaces and two A/C compressors.


Yeah, our house wasn't built with A/C in mind. The company I decided to use for the new system was willing to fix that but the cost would have been prohibitive. First thing folks looking at homes should look for is registers near the ceilings and registers near the floor. Never occurred to me when we bought the house. I do have 6 ceiling fans so I can get the air moving. We have a high ceiling in a large room and the air stratifies if we don't use the fans. Didn't help much last summer. Been shopping for houses and I keep looking for pictures that show registers near ceiling level.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> The heat combined with the humidity being high almost every day is bad. I hear that the heat in dry places is not so bad but I have never been to one of those places.


The humidity is what's the killer. Get enough air moving and you can live with high temps, but the humidity is just nasty.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Yeah, our house wasn't built with A/C in mind. The company I decided to use for the new system was willing to fix that but the cost would have been prohibitive. First thing folks looking at homes should look for is registers near the ceilings and registers near the floor. Never occurred to me when we bought the house. I do have 6 ceiling fans so I can get the air moving. We have a high ceiling in a large room and the air stratifies if we don't use the fans. Didn't help much last summer. Been shopping for houses and I keep looking for pictures that show registers near ceiling level.
> 
> Rich


Our registers are in the ceiling.
I had all the duct work replaced with the round flex tubes and a damper in each line so I could change the air flow to each room to get it even. The guy had an instrument that he pressed to the ceiling that surrounded the register and it measured the air flow coming out of each register. It is so much better than before with my old system. My bedroom is a long way from the main unit since it was an add on behind the garage. It was 4 to 6 degrees different temperature than the rest of the house most of the time. Now it is just 2 degrees and that is ok.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> Yeah, our house wasn't built with A/C in mind. The company I decided to use for the new system was willing to fix that but the cost would have been prohibitive. First thing folks looking at homes should look for is registers near the ceilings and registers near the floor. Never occurred to me when we bought the house. I do have 6 ceiling fans so I can get the air moving. We have a high ceiling in a large room and the air stratifies if we don't use the fans. Didn't help much last summer. Been shopping for houses and I keep looking for pictures that show registers near ceiling level.
> 
> Rich


An ideal system would have both ceiling and floor registers with dampers to change which ones have air coming out of them. When heating, use the floor registers, when cooling use the ceiling registers. And, each larger room should have a return duct, though you don't see that as much these days.

My daughters last house had the damper system to change where the air came from and it worked beautifully year round. My current house unfortunately, is built on a slab so I only have ceiling ductwork. But with 3' of insulation in the ceiling and insulation in all outer walls, I expect this new house to be easy and relatively economical to heat/cool.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Our registers are in the ceiling.
> I had all the duct work replaced with the round flex tubes and a damper in each line so I could change the air flow to each room to get it even. The guy had an instrument that he pressed to the ceiling that surrounded the register and it measured the air flow coming out of each register. It is so much better than before with my old system. My bedroom is a long way from the main unit since it was an add on behind the garage. It was 4 to 6 degrees different temperature than the rest of the house most of the time. Now it is just 2 degrees and that is ok.


That instrument is an anemometer. One guy out of four that ran the tests on the house had one. I went with that company, the guy just made the most sense. Yeah, I could have had the ductwork changed, but the prices these companies charge... We have a friend that puts in A/C units, my wife asked me if we should use him and save money. Didn't want to get into a hassle with somebody we like and paid the extra in case something went wrong.

What really killed me was the sameness of the bids. They were all in the same ballpark. If you find out just what the equipment costs (and I did) you can see how much they make on an install. A couple of the guys told me they paid the installers a lot and that's the reason the prices were so high. More BS. Well, it wasn't as bad as buying the Hyundai...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> *An ideal system would have both ceiling and floor registers with dampers to change which ones have air coming out of them. When heating, use the floor registers, when cooling use the ceiling registers. And, each larger room should have a return duct, though you don't see that as much these days.*
> 
> My daughters last house had the damper system to change where the air came from and it worked beautifully year round. My current house unfortunately, is built on a slab so I only have ceiling ductwork. But with 3' of insulation in the ceiling and insulation in all outer walls, I expect this new house to be easy and relatively economical to heat/cool.


Yup, no doubt that would work better. Not gonna happen, too much money. Getting tired of pouring money into the black hole that is this house.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> That instrument is an anemometer. One guy out of four that ran the tests on the house had one. I went with that company, the guy just made the most sense. Yeah, I could have had the ductwork changed, but the prices these companies charge... We have a friend that puts in A/C units, my wife asked me if we should use him and save money. Didn't want to get into a hassle with somebody we like and paid the extra in case something went wrong.
> 
> What really killed me was the sameness of the bids. They were all in the same ballpark. If you find out just what the equipment costs (and I did) you can see how much they make on an install. A couple of the guys told me they paid the installers a lot and that's the reason the prices were so high. More BS. Well, it wasn't as bad as buying the Hyundai...
> 
> Rich


*Edit:* My bids had the equipment listed ,
all with model numbers of same.
If they did not give me that, they were not considered.
After the install they did the paper work for the rebate and I just waited for the check.
So far, since Oct 2013, I am very pleased.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> *Edit:* My bids had the equipment listed ,
> all with model numbers of same.
> If they did not give me that, they were not considered.
> After the install they did the paper work for the rebate and I just waited for the check.
> So far, since Oct 2013, I am very pleased.


Yup, my bidders furnished me with that info too. Then they were surprised when I asked them how much profit they were making. Guess they didn't think I'd check. My system cost a bit more than yours did, but as I said, I didn't see a big difference in any of the prices of the bids. Seems like every contractor in NJ has the same "book" as the rest of them have. Kinda seems like collusion, no?

I went with the lowest bidder twice, wasn't gonna quibble about prices this time.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Yup, my bidders furnished me with that info too. Then they were surprised when I asked them how much profit they were making. Guess they didn't think I'd check. My system cost a bit more than yours did, but as I said, I didn't see a big difference in any of the prices of the bids. Seems like every contractor in NJ has the same "book" as the rest of them have. Kinda seems like collusion, no?
> 
> I went with the lowest bidder twice, wasn't gonna quibble about prices this time.
> 
> Rich


One of my guys had an ipad and fancy stuff on it to show you. He did his thing on it and then just wrote down a number. Needless to say I did not call him back.
1 gave me a quote and when I wanted part numbers, etc. it came in with all the wrong numbers, no 2 stage heating, no 2 stage compressor.
The guy that got the job was the bid you saw.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> One of my guys had an ipad and fancy stuff on it to show you. He did his thing on it and then just wrote down a number. Needless to say I did not call him back.
> 1 gave me a quote and when I wanted part numbers, etc. it came in with all the wrong numbers, no 2 stage heating, no 2 stage compressor.
> The guy that got the job was the bid you saw.


I went with the guy that made the most sense too. And he had an anemometer! First guy was the most expensive bidder, I expected that but didn't like the guy. His company had great reviews online, but it would have cost me about 5 grand more. I also had 50 gallon gas hot water heater put in on that bill.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Rich said:


> Yup, no doubt that would work better. Not gonna happen, too much money. Getting tired of pouring money into the black hole that is this house.
> 
> Rich


It isn't something that you do to an existing house because, as you noted, it costs too blasted much. But in new construction it can be done economically though it would cost more than what is considered 'standard' today.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

No Nest here, just a programmable Honeywell thermostat, generic 80% propane furnace with a 4 ton single stage Trane heat pump (20 years old last month on the HVAC equipment). My thermostat is smart enough to switch from cool, to heat to aux heat (the furnace) without me doing a thing. And yes - I have seen it do mode switching like that here in NC (Raleigh area) in a single day, although usually it is only cool to heat or vice versa. I'm not ready to spend $5000-$10000 on a new system yet. It still keeps me comfortable.

All our registers are in the floor, and I have a very accessible crawlspace in a 2400 Sq ft single floor contemporary (1983).


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Now if I can only figure out why my Nest thermostats keep having problems with Alexa. Over 75% of the time when I ask her to adjust a temperature or tell me a temperature, she replies, "Hmm. Nest is not responding."


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Now if I can only figure out why my Nest thermostats keep having problems with Alexa. Over 75% of the time when I ask her to adjust a temperature or tell me a temperature, she replies, "Hmm. Nest is not responding."


Herein lies the problem with all the separate disassociated devices on the market. No one to own responsibility for the problem when you buy all the separate pieces that are advertised to work together but don't do it all the time, as they are advertised to do.

You can check your Nest app and see if it is taking abnormally long to execute commands. That's usually why Alexa give not responding responses.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

scooper said:


> No Nest here, just a programmable Honeywell thermostat, generic 80% propane furnace with a 4 ton single stage Trane heat pump (20 years old last month on the HVAC equipment). My thermostat is smart enough to switch from cool, to heat to aux heat (the furnace) without me doing a thing. And yes - I have seen it do mode switching like that here in NC (Raleigh area) in a single day, although usually it is only cool to heat or vice versa. I'm not ready to spend $5000-$10000 on a new system yet. It still keeps me comfortable.
> 
> All our registers are in the floor, and I have a very accessible crawlspace in a 2400 Sq ft single floor contemporary (1983).


You should be doing research on what is available since your time is coming sooner than later. Then you will be prepared and know what you want when it happens.
If it lasts thru the summer, lots of the factories give their dealers a huge discount in the winter. Not the last one, but the one before that I got $2,600 off because I did it in February fro the same person that had given me the higher price in the summer. He was the one that told me to wait.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

NR4P said:


> You can check your Nest app and see if it is taking abnormally long to execute commands. That's usually why Alexa give not responding responses.


It's not. Both the upstairs and downstairs Nest thermostats are working fine, including through the Nest app.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> It isn't something that you do to an existing house because, as you noted, it costs too blasted much. But in new construction it can be done economically though it would cost more than what is considered 'standard' today.


When my home was built A/C wasn't much of a consideration. I'd hope all new homes have proper ductwork.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Now if I can only figure out why my Nest thermostats keep having problems with Alexa. Over 75% of the time when I ask her to adjust a temperature or tell me a temperature, she replies, "Hmm. Nest is not responding."


This won't help you, but my iComfort thermostat works perfectly from my phone.

Rich


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

jimmie57 said:


> You should be doing research on what is available since your time is coming sooner than later. Then you will be prepared and know what you want when it happens.
> If it lasts thru the summer, lots of the factories give their dealers a huge discount in the winter. Not the last one, but the one before that I got $2,600 off because I did it in February fro the same person that had given me the higher price in the summer. He was the one that told me to wait.


Not that I disagree with you, but how do you go about getting quotes, etc ? Just call up several companies and have them come out and spec / price a system ?

It's certainly better to price it when you don't "need" it immediately. Our place we have been having do service / repairs seems to think our system is in great shape and keep running it until it dies - manufactures don't make them like they did in 1997 (far as durability, etc. obviously, SEER and HPFP have gone up since then). Last month we replaced the fan motor for the outside part of the system. Having the furnace was certainly nice since we were not in a hurry for repair and we could take whatever they had for an appointment and not pay weekend rates.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> This won't help you, but my iComfort thermostat works perfectly from my phone.
> 
> Rich


As do my Nests. I've never had a problem when using the phone app, only when using Alexa, and the problem seems to occur when I ask Alexa what the temperature is "upstairs" or "downstairs," the two names given to my 2 Nests. When I ask Alexa to change the temperature, that works; but when I ask her what the temperature is, she comes back with the "Hmm..." reply.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I moved to Southern California from the East Coast in 1959. I have never lived in an air-conditioned house either before or after moving. High temperatures in the summer eight blocks from the ocean are usually in the mid-70's. Sometimes we get temperatures up to 100 degrees when there's a Santa Ana wind blowing, but that's extremely dry air and we can live with it for a couple days. Temp still goes down to 70 or so at night despite the higher day temp.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

OK, guys. Enough about everyone's varying HVAC systems.


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Lord Vader said:


> Now if I can only figure out why my Nest thermostats keep having problems with Alexa. Over 75% of the time when I ask her to adjust a temperature or tell me a temperature, she replies, "Hmm. Nest is not responding."


How to Control Your Nest Learning Thermostat with Alexa

For the most part, you can use any natural language phrases involving turn up, turn down, raise, lower, increase, or decrease will successfully trigger the corresponding action on the Nest thermostat. In fact there was only one command we could never get to work right, and it appears it isn't actually an available command: "Alexa, what temperature is [thermostat name]?"

Despite our best efforts to just get Alexa to say "The thermostat is set at 65 degrees" or any other kind of status-check feedback, no matter how we phrased the question she always interpreted it as "What temperature is it outside?" and would promptly give us the weather report for our zip code.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Well, while Alexa never gives me my forecast or the forecast for my ZIP code or any other area, she does always respond in the same manner when I ask her what the temperature is upstairs or downstairs: "Hmm, Nest isn't responding." Now, if the problem was an unrecognized command, you'd think I'd get a response not even related to Nest, like you seem to be getting, jimmie. However, she doesn't do that. She replies that Nest isn't responding. If I ask her to change the temperature on either location, that she does, and without any hesitation or hiccups.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> As do my Nests. I've never had a problem when using the phone app, only when using Alexa, and the problem seems to occur when I ask Alexa what the temperature is "upstairs" or "downstairs," the two names given to my 2 Nests. When I ask Alexa to change the temperature, that works; but when I ask her what the temperature is, she comes back with the "Hmm..." reply.


Alexa is still evolving I guess. I really expected a Nest, but I was told they can't communicate with "the mother ship" (the installing company) and that would limit their ability to monitor the system. I wanted that.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I moved to Southern California from the East Coast in 1959. I have never lived in an air-conditioned house either before or after moving. High temperatures in the summer eight blocks from the ocean are usually in the mid-70's. Sometimes we get temperatures up to 100 degrees when there's a Santa Ana wind blowing, but that's extremely dry air and we can live with it for a couple days. Temp still goes down to 70 or so at night despite the higher day temp.


Must be wonderful living there. I've heard the same thing from folks that live down the shore here, but I grew up down the shore and I gotta call BS to that (not to what you wrote). I have heard many good things about the weather where you live. Expensive tho, no?

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Depends on where along the coast he lives for how expensive it is. Some areas yes some areas kinda but not cramped and more laid back. (Capistrano beach area for one example)

But I still believe you need ac along the beach in Southern California. There's usually a 2 to 4 week stretch where it can get very hot and humid. Doesn't last long but it's unbearable if you are a senior. (I'm not but my grandmother was having a very hard time during those hot stretches without ac when she lived there for a couple years. She was around 89 then )


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Depends on where along the coast he lives for how expensive it is. Some areas yes some areas kinda but not cramped and more laid back. (Capistrano beach area for one example)
> 
> But I still believe you need ac along the beach in Southern California. There's usually a 2 to 4 week stretch where it can get very hot and humid. Doesn't last long but it's unbearable if you are a senior. (I'm not but my grandmother was having a very hard time during those hot stretches without ac when she lived there for a couple years. She was around 89 then )


Sounds like the Jersey Shore. I was thinking about San Diego last night. Pretty far south. Must have mostly winds from offshore, no? When the sea breeze is coming in, the Jersey Shore is cool. When it comes off the land it can get really uncomfortable and the fly population makes itself known. Gets pretty nasty and not a lot of places have A/C units. My brother lived in Atlantic Highlands for many years and they didn't have one A/C unit in the house. They just endured those miserable nights. I'm not into enduring.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Sounds like the Jersey Shore. I was thinking about San Diego last night. Pretty far south. Must have mostly winds from offshore, no? When the sea breeze is coming in, the Jersey Shore is cool. When it comes off the land it can get really uncomfortable and the fly population makes itself known. Gets pretty nasty and not a lot of places have A/C units. My brother lived in Atlantic Highlands for many years and they didn't have one A/C unit in the house. They just endured those miserable nights. I'm not into enduring.
> 
> Rich


It is imperative for me here. I actually bought 3 window units when hurricane Ike came thru here. They are 110 volts and my portable generator will run them. If my AC goes out I stick them in the windows and plug them up.
After Ike my daughter and her family came over and I gave them my bedroom. We all had a window unit keeping us cool and keeping the humidity down. They were cheap insurance and easy to put in and take out of the windows since each of them are about 50lbs to handle.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> It is imperative for me here. I actually bought 3 window units when hurricane Ike came thru here. They are 110 volts and my portable generator will run them. If my AC goes out I stick them in the windows and plug them up.
> After Ike my daughter and her family came over and I gave them my bedroom. We all had a window unit keeping us cool and keeping the humidity down. They were cheap insurance and easy to put in and take out of the windows since each of them are about 50lbs to handle.


Can't imagine what it must be like to lose power where you live and not have a plan B. I've got 3 sump pumps (punishment for being dumb enough to buy a house so close to a river) and in storms they have to run. I gave up on the portable generator I had and had a whole house generator installed after Sandy. Cost more than we wanted to spend, but...peace of mind and all that.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Can't imagine what it must be like to lose power where you live and not have a plan B. I've got 3 sump pumps (punishment for being dumb enough to buy a house so close to a river) and in storms they have to run. I gave up on the portable generator I had and had a whole house generator installed after Sandy. Cost more than we wanted to spend, but...peace of mind and all that.
> 
> Rich


Very miserable. We are all terribly spoiled to the good life for sure.
The generator I have will run the refrigerator, 3 window ACs, 1 TV system and 1 Computer system with ease.
The main problem is that if you need it after a hurricane gasoline is hard to find. If the station has no power then no gas. If the station has power everybody has already been there and no gas.

I have thought about getting one that hooks up to the Natural Gas line but I use it so rarely. It has ran maybe 14 days in it's lifetime including after hurricane Ike.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Very miserable. We are all terribly spoiled to the good life for sure.
> The generator I have will run the refrigerator, 3 window ACs, 1 TV system and 1 Computer system with ease.
> The main problem is that if you need it after a hurricane gasoline is hard to find. If the station has no power then no gas. If the station has power everybody has already been there and no gas.
> 
> I have thought about getting one that hooks up to the Natural Gas line but I use it so rarely. It has ran maybe 14 days in it's lifetime including after hurricane Ike.


Mine is hooked up to natural gas and we don't get much use out of it. Good selling point when you're selling a house, but not worth what we paid for it. My wife wouldn't agree with me, peace of mind and all that.

Rich


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Mine is hooked up to natural gas and we don't get much use out of it. Good selling point when you're selling a house, but not worth what we paid for it. My wife wouldn't agree with me, peace of mind and all that.
> 
> Rich


Is it a Generac? I was eyeing one of those to power my whole house.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Is it a Generac? I was eyeing one of those to power my whole house.


I have a whole home Generac with whole home transfer switch. Had it 5 years and never needed it for the big hurricane's as we have been lucky. It probably has about 20 hours on it total but will admit, when the power goes out for minutes or hours, the auto switchover and life carries on with only a 10 sec interruption is nice


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I was looking at one of those. They aren't cheap, though, that's for sure. MSRP is around $3600 for one of the whole house ones for a house of my size. Then there's the installation cost, which is separate. I don't even know how much that would be; I'd have to call the company and ask.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Agree, they aren't cheap. Not only installation costs but engineering and permitting too. If you don't have natural gas, then you need a propane tank and then buy the propane. And you have to be 100% sure the natural gas will flow when you need it.

But I've been without power more than a week 3x in 2004/2005 and having to use a small generator and keep buying gasoline just for the basics was a nightmare. It all depends where you live and the probability of long outages.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I'm in a new house in a new subdivision in northwest suburban Houston. I do have natural gas, which is what I'd use to fuel this.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

When the power is out I want a whole home generator. When the power is not out I don't worry about it much. It is like insurance, everyone wants it when they need it but many don't want to have it when they don't need it.

If we had multiple day long outages a few times each year I'd lean closer to getting a whole home device. For now, the most I can lose is cheaper than the generator. It is just a frustration not to have power.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Is it a Generac? I was eyeing one of those to power my whole house.


Yes, it's a Generac. I had problems with it after it was installed. Took Generac months to fix a bad rotor. I'd be leery of buying a Generac, their warranty division really took their time with the repair and I gotta wonder why they didn't replace the stator. I'd be looking at a Kohler...any more problems with the Generac and I'll be looking to replace it with a Kohler. I know nothing about the Kohlers, but that long repair unsettled me. I've sent many motors out for repairs and always got it done quickly, it should not have take as long as it did. Shouldn't have taken more than week, I would think. I sent far bigger motors out for similar repairs and never had to wait as I did for the Generac rotor.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NR4P said:


> I have a whole home Generac with whole home transfer switch. Had it 5 years and never needed it for the big hurricane's as we have been lucky. It probably has about 20 hours on it total but will admit, when the power goes out for minutes or hours, the auto switchover and life carries on with only a 10 sec interruption is nice


Agreed. When it works correctly it's fine. Have you ever had to have warranty work done?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> I was looking at one of those. They aren't cheap, though, that's for sure. MSRP is around $3600 for one of the whole house ones for a house of my size. Then there's the installation cost, which is separate. I don't even know how much that would be; I'd have to call the company and ask.


I bought mine just after Sandy hit us. We paid a premium price for it. Bad time to buy one. Don't remember what the whole package cost...think it approached 10 grand. Installation is not easy.

Rich


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Rich said:


> Yes, it's a Generac. I had problems with it after it was installed. Took Generac months to fix a bad rotor. I'd be leery of buying a Generac, their warranty division really took their time with the repair and I gotta wonder why they didn't replace the stator. I'd be looking at a Kohler...any more problems with the Generac and I'll be looking to replace it with a Kohler. I know nothing about the Kohlers, but that long repair unsettled me. I've sent many motors out for repairs and always got it done quickly, it should not have take as long as it did. Shouldn't have taken more than week, I would think. I sent far bigger motors out for similar repairs and never had to wait as I did for the Generac rotor.
> 
> Rich


OK, thanks for that info.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NR4P said:


> Agree, they aren't cheap. Not only installation costs but engineering and permitting too. If you don't have natural gas, then you need a propane tank and then buy the propane. And you have to be 100% sure the natural gas will flow when you need it.
> 
> But I've been without power more than a week 3x in 2004/2005 and having to use a small generator and keep buying gasoline just for the basics was a nightmare. *It all depends where you live and the probability of long outages.*


My wife was in panic mode during Sandy and even worse after it was over. Left to my own, I wouldn't have bought one, I'd have used my portable generator. She won that battle... 

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> When the power is out I want a whole home generator. When the power is not out I don't worry about it much. It is like insurance, everyone wants it when they need it but many don't want to have it when they don't need it.
> 
> If we had multiple day long outages a few times each year I'd lean closer to getting a whole home device. For now, the most I can lose is cheaper than the generator. It is just a frustration not to have power.


Well, living as close to the river as I do, I have to have my 3 sump pumps working in a storm and hooking up that portable generator in the middle of a storm wasn't pleasant. The peace of mind was worth it, I guess. Now that it is fixed and running well I'm not sorry I bought it. Should have done some more research before I bought it tho.

Rich


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> I was looking at one of those. They aren't cheap, though, that's for sure. MSRP is around $3600 for one of the whole house ones for a house of my size. Then there's the installation cost, which is separate. I don't even know how much that would be; I'd have to call the company and ask.


It usually doubles the price. It really all depends on how close the gas & electric meters are to each other.

When the Derecho came though in 2012 and everyone was at HD/Lowe's getting on a waiting list for a small generator I went straight back to whole house generators and bought one. They were estimating more than a week to get power back and it was 90+ degrees with 80% humidity. So I ran plastic gas line around the house and over the deck and had it running on the driveway by evening.

That was Saturday and on Tuesday the power came back on. So I started dismantling my setup and then Wednesday morning the power went back out so I had to set it all up again. Finally got it back the following Monday.

Since then it has run several times including almost a week when Sandy dumped 8" of very wet snow on us. My mom decided she wanted one, so I took her mine (17Kw) and replaced it with a 22Kw so I can run both A/C's at the same time now.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Herdfan said:


> It usually doubles the price. It really all depends on how close the gas & electric meters are to each other.


Mine are less than 10 feet away from each other.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

James Long said:


> When the power is out I want a whole home generator. When the power is not out I don't worry about it much. It is like insurance, everyone wants it when they need it but many don't want to have it when they don't need it.
> 
> If we had multiple day long outages a few times each year I'd lean closer to getting a whole home device. For now, the most I can lose is cheaper than the generator. It is just a frustration not to have power.


 I certainly can agree with this.

I have had *ONE* time when our power was out for more than 12 hours - when Hurricane Fran came through in 1996 ? We lost power at about 0100 and it came back almost exactly 24 hours later. All other outages we have had have been 12 hours or less. Most MUCH less. Now, when we see a weather situation coming that we might lose power, we fill up a 5 gallon beer brewing bucket and a 3 gallon stockpot with water and let it go.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Mine are less than 10 feet away from each other.


That will help. When my mom's was installed it was a choice of running 75' of wire or about 100' of gas line. Wire won out as it was much cheaper. The wire they use is about $12' so that cost can add up quickly.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Just curious, for those that use natural gas to run generators, have you ever experienced a time when the gas isn't flowing? Can you bet on it 99.99% during a storm, or post storm?


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

NR4P said:


> Just curious, for those that use natural gas to run generators, have you ever experienced a time when the gas isn't flowing? Can you bet on it 99.99% during a storm, or post storm?


I have been in this house since 1972. 2 hurricanes direct his in that time. Gas was never off at anytime since 1972 to my knowledge.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Herdfan said:


> That will help. When my mom's was installed it was a choice of running 75' of wire or about 100' of gas line. Wire won out as it was much cheaper. The wire they use is about $12' so that cost can add up quickly.


And they use plumbers to run the gas lines. They have to be the most expensive tradesmen. When the installation of my furnace/air conditioner/water heater was just beginning the plumber called me down to the cellar and told me the main water faucet was "broken" and he was gonna have to put a new one in to before he could install the water heater. Asked him how it got "broken". "Well, it won't turn". I really hate it when I have contractors in the house and they try to BS me. I asked him how much it would cost..."$500". For a faucet. Then he says, "Do you know what I have to go thru to replace it?" I knew. He'd have to turn off the water at the curb using a long wrench. Not a big deal, then he'd have to go thru the horribly grueling job of soldering a ball valve in place of the faucet. Half hour job. $500? Told him to loosen the packing nut and the existing faucet would work. Nope, "It's broken." OK, told him I'd do it. He finally gave up and did what I told him to do. For the money the new system cost I would think they could have thrown that fix in.

I have my "handyman" coming over next week to put a ball valve on, estimates less than $200. Every time I ask for a price from a licensed plumber I get at least a $500 dollar estimate. When we wanted to have two bathrooms upgraded I called the plumber I had used for years and asked him for an estimate on both bathrooms..."$10,000 each". On the phone without one look at the bathrooms (I was speaking to the owner he had never been to my home), asked him how he could do an estimate without knowing what we wanted done. Got the same answer, "10,000". Gave up. Ended up spending about that much on each of them. Can't win...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NR4P said:


> Just curious, for those that use natural gas to run generators, have you ever experienced a time when the gas isn't flowing? Can you bet on it 99.99% during a storm, or post storm?


Never. Over 30 years in this house and it's never happened. If I had thought it would be a problem I would have gone the propane route.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I have been in this house since 1972. 2 hurricanes direct his in that time. Gas was never off at anytime since 1972 to my knowledge.


Really can't see that happening during a storm. Can see it happening if an earthquake hit. Jimmie, only 2 hurricane direct hits in 42 years? Really? We get hit more than you? Wow, I'm surprised.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> Really can't see that happening during a storm. Can see it happening if an earthquake hit. Jimmie, only 2 hurricane direct hits in 42 years? Really? We get hit more than you? Wow, I'm surprised.
> 
> Rich


We had several that "brushed us" on either side but just 2 that I am aware of in that time period.
When I say direct hit I mean that "we walked out in the yard when the eye was right on us and then hurried back inside as the back of it was fast approaching. It was really weird to see the trees leaning to one side from the 105 mph winds and then for them to not move at all and then for them to whip the opposite direction. That change of direction of the wind is what really caused the most damage.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> We had several that "brushed us" on either side but just 2 that I am aware of in that time period.
> When I say direct hit I mean that "we walked out in the yard when the eye was right on us and then hurried back inside as the back of it was fast approaching. It was really weird to see the trees leaning to one side from the 105 mph winds and then for them to not move at all and then for them to whip the opposite direction. That change of direction of the wind is what really caused the most damage.


OK, that sounds more like what we've had. I really thought you'd get pummeled more than we would. I was in Clearwater when Andrew was about to hit. That was interesting. The Mayor, or whatever his title is, of Galveston was on TV and radio imploring folks on the island to evacuate or die (words to that effect). I got to Hobby Airport and got out of there.

Every time I think about the Galveston area...the restaurants were so good. The shrimp...wow! I grew up on the Jersey and I was shocked when I saw the number of boats and the huge marinas, truly a boater's paradise. Oops, went off topic again... 

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> OK, that sounds more like what we've had. I really thought you'd get pummeled more than we would. I was in Clearwater when Andrew was about to hit. That was interesting. The Mayor, or whatever his title is, of Galveston was on TV and radio imploring folks on the island to evacuate or die (words to that effect). I got to Hobby Airport and got out of there.
> 
> Every time I think about the Galveston area...the restaurants were so good. The shrimp...wow! I grew up on the Jersey and I was shocked when I saw the number of boats and the huge marinas, truly a boater's paradise. Oops, went off topic again...
> 
> Rich


Galveston island is sea level or below in many places. The flooding is what did all the dame to it when Ike came thru here. Surge was stopped by the sea wall but it went around the end of the island and flooded it from the backside.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Galveston island is sea level or below in many places. The flooding is what did all the dame to it when Ike came thru here. Surge was stopped by the sea wall but it went around the end of the island and flooded it from the backside.


How badly do you get "brushed" by hurricanes? All we get is high winds and rain. Hopefully the river doesn't flood.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> How badly do you get "brushed" by hurricanes? All we get is high winds and rain. Hopefully the river doesn't flood.
> 
> Rich


The same as you.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

About those generators for emergencies... Natural gas generators are a great idea but not great in California. A big quake would cause them to shut off the gas. If you are on your own propane in far out areas that's probably ok but not in most the main areas.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> About those generators for emergencies... Natural gas generators are a great idea but not great in California. A big quake would cause them to shut off the gas. If you are on your own propane in far out areas that's probably ok but not in most the main areas.


Yup, earthquakes I would fear.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Yes I recall you won't even come to our coast.  earthquakes aren't a big deal when you live out here. We don't have earthquake seasons. :lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Y*es I recall you won't even come to our coast*.  earthquakes aren't a big deal when you live out here. We don't have earthquake seasons. :lol:


Don't think I've ever said that. My father lived in Sacramento for awhile until he passed. He went thru a couple small earthquakes there. Did you know Manhattan is bisected by a fault and NJ has earthquakes from time to time?

Rich


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Rich said:


> Must be wonderful living there. I've heard the same thing from folks that live down the shore here, but I grew up down the shore and I gotta call BS to that (not to what you wrote). I have heard many good things about the weather where you live. Expensive tho, no?
> 
> Rich


I grew up spending summer vacations at the South Jersey shore (Atlantic City, Ocean City, Sea Isle City, and Avalon). I certainly can't vouch for the places in winter; it's too cold and windy. Summer wasn't too bad, but I remember a lot of storms and a lot of green-head flies. Weather is much better out here. When our kids were small we used to take them to the beach on New Year's Day -- to play, not swim -- while we recovered from too-late New Year's Eve parties.

One problem is traffic congestion. We are both retired so that doesn't bother us too much.

Yes, it's expensive to buy or rent now out here but we bought our house 45 years ago and it's long paid-off. Our electric bill averages $100 a month; our gas bill is about $40 summer and $100 winter.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> Don't think I've ever said that. My father lived in Sacramento for awhile until he passed. He went thru a couple small earthquakes there. Did you know Manhattan is bisected by a fault and NJ has earthquakes from time to time?
> 
> Rich


Actually yes I did and based on what I know a big earthquake there would be far worse than here because of the ground and what it's made of. I believe the east coast is far more solid.

I could have sworn you said you wouldn't want to come visit something out here because of earthquakes. Can't recall what it was though.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I grew up spending summer vacations at the South Jersey shore (Atlantic City, Ocean City, Sea Isle City, and Avalon). I certainly can't vouch for the places in winter; it's too cold and windy. Summer wasn't too bad, but I remember a lot of storms and a lot of green-head flies. Weather is much better out here. When our kids were small we used to take them to the beach on New Year's Day -- to play, not swim -- while we recovered from too-late New Year's Eve parties.
> 
> One problem is traffic congestion. We are both retired so that doesn't bother us too much.
> 
> Yes, it's expensive to buy or rent now out here but we bought our house 45 years ago and it's long paid-off. Our electric bill averages $100 a month; our gas bill is about $40 summer and $100 winter.


The Jersey Shore is miserable in the winter. Most places are seasonal, so not much is open. No jobs that pay a decent wage. My wife wants a house down the shore, but she's from a suburb near Pittsburgh and has no idea what living there is like.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Actually yes I did and based on what I know a big earthquake there would be far worse than here because of the ground and what it's made of. I believe the east coast is far more solid.
> 
> I could have sworn you said you wouldn't want to come visit something out here because of earthquakes. Can't recall what it was though.


I might have said something like that, don't remember. In any event, earthquakes wouldn't stop me. I go to the City often and never worry about them. I've been to the bridge that goes over the fault line a few times. Bill paints a really pleasant picture of life in San Diego, I'd like to go there.

I used to hang around with an oral surgeon, he wanted to start a practice in the San Francisco area, went there, came back shocked at how high priced land and houses are out there. He's got a lot of money and he came right out and told me he couldn't afford to live there.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> I might have said something like that, don't remember. In any event, earthquakes wouldn't stop me. I go to the City often and never worry about them. I've been to the bridge that goes over the fault line a few times. Bill paints a really pleasant picture of life in San Diego, I'd like to go there.
> 
> I used to hang around with an oral surgeon, he wanted to start a practice in the San Francisco area, went there, came back shocked at how high priced land and houses are out there. He's got a lot of money and he came right out and told me he couldn't afford to live there.
> 
> Rich


Yep,
when I was in a Navy school out there in 1966 a hamburger was $2.59. Here in Texas the burgers were $0.59.
It was nice weather there. A house like I bought in 1972 for $28,200 was $259,000.
That kind of differences is what I explained to a niece of mine when her company offered to move her up but it meant she would have to move to Miami or New York from Tampa Fl. She asked for a lot more money and they gave it to her.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I think there's no spot in the US that's immune from earthquakes, but the likelihood of experiencing one in your lifetime is far greater in the Golden State. Worst could well be in the MidWest, where the solid plate runs for many hundreds of miles.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> I might have said something like that, don't remember. In any event, earthquakes wouldn't stop me. I go to the City often and never worry about them. I've been to the bridge that goes over the fault line a few times. Bill paints a really pleasant picture of life in San Diego, I'd like to go there.
> 
> I used to hang around with an oral surgeon, he wanted to start a practice in the San Francisco area, went there, came back shocked at how high priced land and houses are out there. He's got a lot of money and he came right out and told me he couldn't afford to live there.
> 
> Rich


Last I checked San Francisco was actually the most expensive city in the country. Even ahead of New York. It's a fabulous place to visit. Super expensive to live. Most companies like retail even pay a much higher wage scale than in any other city.

San Diego is really nice. If I had to chose someone other than the area I'm in now, it'd be somewhere between here and San Diego lots of nice areas all the way down there. But they did really well with their downtown and gas lamp district.

If you ever make it try and go when you can catch a baseball game. The padres stadium and food alone is well worth spending a day around that area.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> Yep,
> when I was in a Navy school out there in 1966 a *hamburger was $2.59. Here in Texas the burgers were $0.59*.
> It was nice weather there. *A house like I bought in 1972 for $28,200 was $259,000*.
> That kind of differences is what I explained to a niece of mine when her company offered to move her up but it meant she would have to move to Miami or New York from Tampa Fl. She asked for a lot more money and they gave it to her.


Really? Can't help but wonder why. That would explain why the rather arrogant (if you knew him you'd understand) oral surgeon came back humbled.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I think there's no spot in the US that's immune from earthquakes, but the likelihood of experiencing one in your lifetime is far greater in the Golden State. *Worst could well be in the MidWest*, where the solid plate runs for many hundreds of miles.


That's the New Madrid fault. I read a very good alternate history book about what would happen if that fault goes crazy, have no idea what the name of the book was. The Mississippi River goes berserk in the book causing all kinds of problems. Would be a national disaster.

Rich


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

Was it "8.4" by Peter Hernon


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Christopher Gould said:


> Was it "8.4" by Peter Hernon


I don't think so...could be. I read so many books and I just can't remember. The description of Hernon's book that I just read on Amazon kinda sounds like it but...I don't know. I remember reading a book based on the New Madrid fault, I don't remember the author and it could have been that book. I just ran a search for Hernon's book and ordered it from my library, I'll read it and see if it is the book. This will drive me nuts if I don't find the book I read. I'll be back in a few days with the answer.

Rich


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Cool, Rich. Yes, the New Madrid fault is a huge one. There was an earthquake ca. 1812 that caused the Mississippi to run backwards for several days.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Cool, Rich. Yes, the New Madrid fault is a huge one. There was an earthquake ca. 1812 that caused the Mississippi to run backwards for several days.


Yup, I think it did the same in the book. The protagonist was riding a raft on the Mississippi, I remember that. I remember enjoying the book. When I enjoy a book I usually go for more from the author and I don't remember that author, Hernon. Not that my memory is anything to boast about.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Cool, Rich. Yes, the New Madrid fault is a huge one. There was an earthquake ca. 1812 that caused the Mississippi to run backwards for several days.


"Shame be to him who thinks evil of it." Was wondering what that meant.

Rich


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

I Googled " alternate history new madrid fault book " and there where several books just on the first page.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Christopher Gould said:


> I Googled " alternate history new madrid fault book " and there where several books just on the first page.


I just tried that didn't get much. There must be a way. I remember, vaguely, the book cover. It was something I think I'd know if I saw it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Christopher Gould said:


> I Googled " alternate history new madrid fault book " and there where several books just on the first page.


I just ran a search of the consortium. I'm pretty sure I found it. The author is Walter Jon Williams and the title is _The Rift_. From the description on Amazon:
_*Caught in the disaster as cities burn and bridges tumble, young Jason Adams finds himself adrift on the Mississippi with African-American engineer Nick Ruford. A modern-day Huck and Jim, they spin helplessly down the river and into the widening faults in American society, encountering violence and hope, compassion and despair, and the primal wilderness that threatens to engulf not only them, but all they love...*_
As they spin helplessly down the river, that's the part that I remembered. I can't show you the cover, I don't think the library software can be reproduced... Item Display - The rift
Let me see if that comes up properly...

Hmm, don't think it worked. Let me post this and see what happens.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Huh, worked on my laptop. Anybody else see the cover?

Rich


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

I just get a session timed out error when I click your link. However I grabbed the actual image location and lets see if this works


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

"Session has timed out. Please click OK to start a new OPAC session"

Here is the Amazon link ....
Amazon.com: The Rift eBook: Walter Jon Williams: Kindle Store


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

longrider said:


> *I just get a session timed out error when I click your link*. However I grabbed the actual image location and lets see if this works


That's what I thought would happen. I've tried it before and that happened. How did you do that (get the picture)?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> "Session has timed out. Please click OK to start a new OPAC session"
> 
> Here is the Amazon link ....
> Amazon.com: The Rift eBook: Walter Jon Williams: Kindle Store


I knew that was there, but the cover was not what I remembered.

Rich


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

Rich said:


> That's what I thought would happen. I've tried it before and that happened. How did you do that (get the picture)?
> 
> Rich


What I did was after I got the error message I hit OK which started a new session. Your library allowed me to search as a guest and after the title gave way too many hits I tried the author which was more manageable. Once I found the book I right-clicked on the image and chose view image. This gave me the actual web address of the image which I pasted in image tags on the forum here.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

longrider said:


> What I did was after I got the error message I hit OK which started a new session. Your library allowed me to search as a guest and after the title gave way too many hits I tried the author which was more manageable. Once I found the book I right-clicked on the image and chose view image. This gave me the actual web address of the image which I pasted in image tags on the forum here.


Huh. Never thought to do that. Thanx, that will allow me to post links to the consortium (I really like that word!). That database is kinda wacky at times. Kinda surprised I found the book.

Rich


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

Continuing the off-topic topic I just got an ad from Amazon and the Kindle edition of The Rift is on sale for $0.99 I did buy a copy Amazon.com: The Rift eBook: Walter Jon Williams: Kindle Store


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

longrider said:


> Continuing the off-topic topic I just got an ad from Amazon and the Kindle edition of The Rift is on sale for $0.99 I did buy a copy Amazon.com: The Rift eBook: Walter Jon Williams: Kindle Store


I tried, I couldn't finish it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Rich said:


> I tried, I couldn't finish it.
> 
> Rich


Have to correct the above post, I was referring to _8.4_, a book on the same subject as _The Rift_ that I just gave up on. Sorry for any confusion.

Rich


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Sorry about a lengthy post: A few weeks ago, I checked the Nest web site to see what the proper location would be for a single Nest Thermostat in a 2 story home with two thermostats. The response was that the Nest should be located on the floor that is occupied most of the time.
That being the case, I took it upon myself to install the Nest we received for Christmas today. I was replacing a Honeywell Thermostat that had a wiring configuration that didn't come up on the Nest site, so I started a chat (of course, during the heat of the day.) Once I had pulled the Honeywell to check the wiring,it kind of lost its mind and wouldn't respond when I reinstalled it -- just said it was in the wait state, and I couldn't activate it. The chat session lasted at least 3 hours. I gave the support tech the model number of the Honeywell and he asked me to send him a picture of the wiring on the base. I took a picture with my cell and it took some time to be able to send a file with the picture. I wound up sending the picture to Dropbox, then recovering it from Dropbox on my computer. Once that was done, he sent me an email with a color graphic of the proper installation. Where the Honeywell had the red wire connected to both RC and RH, on the Nest, I only had to connect it to RC. The blue wire on the Honeywell was not needed, so I just folded the end back on itself for a short distance and wrapped it with electrical tape. I was able to use the screw holes from the Honeywell for the Nest mounting plate. The rest of the install was easy.
Setup is another situation. When asked for my language, I tried to select English, USA, but it gave me English, UK and I was unable to change it. I spent enough time on the installation to get the AC running (in Fahrenheit after some effort). It also took several attempts to enable Wi-Fi, with the setup routine failing to accept my password, even though I could see that it was entered properly. Finally it was accepted. It's going to take some time to get heat/cool cycles set up properly; the Nest wouldn't accept a daytime heat temperature one degree lower than the daytime cooling temperature. It apparently needs at least two degrees difference. I'm almost done for the day -- still need to set up day/night temps.


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