# Another HOA Thread - This time Fees for access to MPOE...



## CalifLove (Mar 25, 2009)

Hey Guys,

I live in a Townhome community which is a high density urban thing... pretty common these days in the bay area california.

It is a new build that included satellite dishes for Dish and Dtv on the roofs of all units and pre-wired the homes with 4 lines each. These cables all run into a closet on the side of each set of buildings (4-5 homes each) and then break out to 4 additional runs to the homes.

The problem for me is that recently, the HOa has decided to padlock access to the doors in these entry points and require a days notice to allow access to cable/sat/security techs to do any work/installations etc. Further, they charge an after hours fee of $175 to be avalible to provide access after 5:30pm. After hours for this particular HOA is 5pm - 9am M-F and anytime on weekends.

Being that I work during the day and don't don't necesarrily have the option of taking off early or a day off anytime soon, this is a problem for me.

My interpetation of the below cited text of the FCC rule indicates to me that this is not allowed by the FCC... am I wrong and should just suck it up and wait till I can get a day off or do I have somthing to fight for?

*
The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.*


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

I think you are stuck waiting until you can get a day off. 

I think its pretty reasonable that they offer you normal business hours for the install to happen. Have you tried talking to anyone there about the problem? If your nice maybe they will forget to lock the box up or lend you a key. doesn't hurt to ask!

Do you know if your complex in under an MDU contract? That could change the gameplan about getting service as well.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

I think the OP is referrign to section 2 "(2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use" in regards to the $175 after-hours fee.

On a semi-related note, here in San Diego in Military Housing (which is owned by a PRIVATE company and is NOT on base) they allow you to install a dish but charge you $500 for the privlege! would this be an "unreasonable increase" to the cost?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> On a semi-related note, here in San Diego in Military Housing (which is owned by a PRIVATE company and is NOT on base) they allow you to install a dish but charge you $500 for the privlege! would this be an "unreasonable increase" to the cost?


If they own the building and are allowing a dish to be mounted on it, then that would not be unreasonable since they may need to fix the building at some point in the future. If they want $500 and you have it on a tripod/bucket on your exclusive back porch/deck, then yes it would be unreasonable.


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

Contact the SBCA

www.SBCA.org


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## CalifLove (Mar 25, 2009)

The HOA does have a "deal" of some sort with a company that offers sat service, however they charge extra install fees compared to what you get if you go through the sat companies directly. I got around that the first time as I simply called dish directly and they came out, checked the lines to the house from the mpoe and all was well ...this was before the HOA decided to padlock access to the mpoe.

I imagine this deal is a contract of some sort as the hoa rules do stipulate that said company is the only one allowed to access the roof to deal with sat related issues.

That brings up another issue - if this contracted company charges rates higher than going direct with the sat companies... isn't that reason enough to not have to use them?


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## MyDogHasFleas (Jan 4, 2007)

If I were you I'd call whoever's in charge of providing access to the facilities and gently explain my problem, and see what they say. Oftentimes people are willing to accommodate you if you're reasonable and present your problem respectfully. I would not go "fight" as my first option. I'd put it in terms of the hardship this is imposing on you, and ask if there's anything that can be done. 

I suspect that they locked the closet because people were messing up the service by accessing the closet and changing things. The fee is to make people realize that access is not a 24x7 right.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

CalifLove said:


> Being that I work during the day and don't don't necesarrily have the option of taking off early or a day off anytime soon, this is a problem for me.
> 
> My interpetation of the below cited text of the FCC rule indicates to me that this is not allowed by the FCC... am I wrong and should just suck it up and wait till I can get a day off or do I have somthing to fight for?


There is nothing in OTARD that prevents your HOA from what they're doing. The HOA can't prevent you from having a dish on your balcony/patio/other exclusive use area, but they can put whatever restrictions they like on their SMA (system master antenna) system, including preventing you from using it at all. If your HOA owns the outside surfaces of your townhome (in other words, if it's considered "common"), then they can prevent you from mounting a dish there.

Bottom line: suck it up and wait until you can get a day off, or have someone home for the installer if you can't be. I also recommend you get an AM appointment, which reduces the chance that the installer will miss the 5pm cutoff.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> I think the OP is referrign to section 2 "(2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use" in regards to the $175 after-hours fee.
> 
> On a semi-related note, here in San Diego in Military Housing (which is owned by a PRIVATE company and is NOT on base) they allow you to install a dish but charge you $500 for the privlege! would this be an "unreasonable increase" to the cost?


But they aren't unreasonably increasing the cost of the installation, they are just telling the people you need to have it done between 9:00am and 5:00pm which is very reasonable. IF they want to do it on their own hours then they need to pay, but that is the persons choice, not a requirement.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

It's probably a catch-22 situation... Legally they might not be required to provide 24x7 access... so they could just not allow after-hours access at all.

I admit, though, that the $175 fee is very steep when you figure that the access is probably by way of someone who lives on site anyway.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> On a semi-related note, here in San Diego in Military Housing (which is owned by a PRIVATE company and is NOT on base) they allow you to install a dish but charge you $500 for the privlege! would this be an "unreasonable increase" to the cost?


Again, you're confusing sections of OTARD. The section you are referring to is for HOME OWNERS whose HOA is forcing an increased cost. If you're a renter, the only thing OTARD protects you on is having a dish under 1m in your exclusive use area. Otherwise, the landlord can deny your ability to install a dish at all, or can put any restrictions on your install that he likes.


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

BattleZone said:


> Again, you're confusing sections of OTARD. The section you are referring to is for HOME OWNERS whose HOA is forcing an increased cost. If you're a renter, the only thing OTARD protects you on is having a dish under 1m in your exclusive use area. Otherwise, the landlord can deny your ability to install a dish at all, or can put any restrictions on your install that he likes.


NO NO NO NO! Read it again...

"The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) *unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use;* or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.

Effective January 22, 1999, the Commission *amended the rule *so that it also applies to rental property where the renter has an exclusive use area, such as a balcony or patio."

So, the rule itself, including the part where the landlord can't unreasonably increase the $$ of installation, was enacted in 1996. Then in 1999 it was AMENDED to include rental properties where the RENTER has an exclusive use area.

So if you are a renter and your apt complex is charging you $100 to install the dish, that is not allowed under OTARD.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Okay, let me make it more clear:

The military housing folks cannot legally charge you a fee/deposit/whatever if you're installing the dish in your exclusive use area on a non-penetrating mount, etc.

But having done upwards of a hundred dish installs in military housing in at least 6 different military housing communities, almost none of the properties had "exclusive use areas" that would qualify under OTARD, and thus were at the mercy of the landlord. 2 areas only allow pole mounts, and a couple allow eave mounting or under-eave mounting, but no roof mounts. But those could all be denied and there's nothing that OTARD would do for those folks. Only one section of one community had enclosed patios that would qualify for OTARD protection.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Justin23 said:


> So if you are a renter and your apt complex is charging you $100 to install the dish, that is not allowed under OTARD.


I don't think the rules guarantee a specific time of day to be able to install that dish, though...

Apparently most of the daylight hours the renter has free access to the location to install the dish. The only time he is charged is for after-hours.. and I think that probably can be enforced since the renter has the choice to install during the day when free access is available.

An example in another area might be... I have a right to eat at Pizza Hut as long as I go during normal business hours. They can't refuse service to me for any reason. BUT, I can't go and eat there at 2am when they are closed. IF, however, the manager offered to meet me there and cook up a pizza at 2am if I was willing to pay an extra $50 for the inconvenience... then I couldn't very well accuse him of violating my civil rights and not allowing me to buy pizza.


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