# How many D* customers might be interested in the VIP 922?



## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Echostar has now shown a working model of their 922 "sling embedded" HDDVR. They have also announced that they would also like to sell it to cable companies and possibly D* if they are interested. Just wondering ya'll would or would not be interested in this product? Is the Echostar name a turnoff to the D* customer base? I am not looking to start a E* vs D* thread, a flame war, or a merger thread. I am just interested to know if this technology is of any interest to the D* sub.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Well for sure it's a desirable technology... for a price. I don't know that I'd be willing to spend more than the sum of the parts for it though. I also don't see that Dish is going to sell it to DirecTV though... where was that?


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

I am still looking for a link here but according to the "other site" it was mentioned by Charlie himself during the Dish press conference that Echostar would be interested in selling this to cable, telcos, and D*.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

The only feature I'd be interested in is more concurrent recording, four streams is nice. What would really be nice is if D* came up with a DVR that could do three or four sat streams, prefer the MPEG4 recordings to help cut down on disk drive utilization plus better for streaming content on the home network.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

The other thing is if this did happen, it would not be Dish selling it to D*. It would be Echostar selling it to D*.


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## dave29 (Feb 18, 2007)

i would definately buy one (or more)if the price was right....


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

The only price that has been mentioned is $199 for a lease for E* exsisting customers to lease. Usually with E* the deals are better for new of returning customers. If it was kept at this price it would be competive with the HR series currently.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Not interested. Not because it's E*, but that I have no need for a Sling enabled unit.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

No thanks, not with that remote and having to have everything on screen. The remote doesn't even have numbers on it, come on! You have to enter them on screen? How cheesy is that...


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> No thanks, not with that remote and having to have everything on screen. The remote doesn't even have numbers on it, come on! You have to enter them on screen? How cheesy is that...


Agreed, the remote would be a deal breaker for me. I wonder how a Harmony would integrate? Will it actually accept standard numeric entry from an universal?


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

if it had a decent remote, yes. only if it received D* programming.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

cygnusloop said:


> Agreed, the remote would be a deal breaker for me. I wonder how a Harmony would integrate? Will it actually accept standard numeric entry from an universal?


Based on the screen shots I've seen I wouldn't think so.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

It has been mentioned that it can be used the other E* remotes. You use the arrow buttons to highlight what you want and the select button to pick it. I am sure harmony/logitech will have a solution for this box. I have a feeling it will to popular to not support.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jclewter79 said:


> You use the arrow buttons to highlight what you want and the select button to pick it.


I don't know about you but when I want to enter a 7 I want to just press 7 and not have to arrow around, highlight a 7 on screen and press select.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> I don't know about you but when I want to enter a 7 I want to just press 7 and not have to arrow around, highlight a 7 on screen and press select.


I agree that it might be a pain. We will just have to wait and see what the finished product looks like when it is released.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

With DirecTV having the DVR+ and soon the HD DirecTivo?.No interest what so ever.Think that remote is a mistake plus the 2nd TV output is SD.Give me numbers to press on the remote."from my cold dead hands"!,Oh yeah and a backlight!.:yesman:


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I have a "prediction" or a "preminition" D* waited for E* to show their hand at CES, since things look down in the economy right now. They WILL have a Whole house DVR with 1 possibly 2 terrabites in a central location, the ability to record from and stream to "remote" receivers hooked up at various locations in your house.
Now this next part is a stretch but, Wireless from the DVR to the room remote receivers. And they will have their own software to access receivers from over the internet. It won't be "Sling" software but rather "in house" it will be clunky at first but will improve.

So No I will not go to Dishnotwork!!!


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Nope. Non starter for me too. Sorry Charlie.


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## chuckyvt (Jan 30, 2008)

Definately would be interested. The sling enabled part along with the iPhone player they demoed at macworld would be awesome!


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> Well for sure it's a desirable technology... for a price. I don't know that I'd be willing to spend more than the sum of the parts for it though. I also don't see that Dish is going to sell it to DirecTV though... where was that?


Here is the link that mentions that Echostar would sell it to other providers

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149501


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

I am definitely interested but don't ever see it happening.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Not interested at all. Worthless technology for me.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

Doesn't really interest me either. I don't have a use for "sling" technology.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

I think it's neat technology and, frankly, I would strongly consider any alternative to the HR2x series.


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## Cpt Guavaberry (Oct 16, 2007)

Yes! But as stated earlier, only if at a savings of the combined components.


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## Cpt Guavaberry (Oct 16, 2007)

"No thanks, not with that remote and having to have everything on screen. The remote doesn't even have numbers on it, come on! You have to enter them on screen? How cheesy is that..."
__________________



Look a little deeper. From what I see, the selection screens are all about favorites, most viewed and quick, easy searches. Break out of the box and get away from the numbers game.

Not meant to read as a slam. Just remember, in most cases, big changes in technology and the way we interact with it, is intended for the ease or betterment of the user.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

For sure. I'd love one. With the capability to record 5 consecutive shows (2 SAT, 2 OTA and one VOD), it's exactly what I'm looking for. A basic TV watching machine with lots of storage and no recording conflicts.

Ability to control the unit and watch shows from the public internet is an added bonus. And a much nicer solution than DirectTV2PC inside the home, in my particular situation, because I can stream downsampled 16:9 wirelessly to my laptops, with less worry about connection quality and whether or not I have the latest video card/GPU. My laptops are all 2-3 year old dual cores that I expect to get a few more years of service out of, especially now that early reports show that Windows 7 appears to run as well (if not sometimes better) than XP on older h/w. /steve

/steve


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Cpt Guavaberry said:


> Look a little deeper. From what I see, the selection screens are all about favorites, most viewed and quick, easy searches. Break out of the box and get away from the numbers game.


And just how would you suggest entering channel numbers without numbers?

Or how would you suggest entering letters without numbers that have letters that correspond with them?

Moving all around a screen and pressing select on a number or letter is time consuming.

Moving away from having to navigate all around a screen and press select to search is why they gave us the multi-tap feature on DirecTV's receivers.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

I can picture it now D* selling a DVR that actually works. Wow that would be a first. :lol:


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## sat4r (Aug 27, 2006)

I am very happy with what I have. Keep up the good work "D"


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

I'll stick with what I have. Sling technology is of no use to me, and i don't like what I have seen of the remote


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

As I have said before the remote is a question. It does look funny to me too but, so did the face of an ipod the first time I saw it. If it is easy to navigate and use it will become second nature and there will be no need for a backlight. If it does not become accepted as the next big thing, it could be bad. Another thing is there are so many things about this box that make it so much better than anything any of us have seen that even if you do not use the sling part of it, it still could be a worthwhile upgrade.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm willing to keep an open mind and reserve judgement on the remote until it's out in the field. I'm pretty sure E* didn't invest a ton of money developing this box and UI without some preliminary user-feedback testing. The on-screen touch numeric keypad is a new paradigm, and it's popping up on almost every new 2.5"-3" screen phone since the introduction of the iPhone. As we've seen, the lack of hard # buttons hasn't stopped Apple from selling 13 million iPhones so far.

And in the unlikely event that it turns out the remote is universally disliked, it's an easy fix for E* to deliver another remote. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to learn they will also offer a "traditional" remote for those that may be somehow impaired and unable to use this one.

Just my .02. /steve

*EDIT: Just read in another thread that E* has confirmed the 922 can be used with conventional remotes a well.*


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

Steve said:


> ...The on-screen touch numeric keypad is a new paradigm, and it's popping up on almost every new 2.5"-3" screen phone since the introduction of the iPhone. As we've seen, the lack of hard # buttons hasn't stopped Apple from selling 13 million iPhones so far.


The key difference is that while the iPhone's keypad is virtual, it's still direct-input.

Ultimately, we'll see, as you said, but I think it was a bad decision to not at least include a keypad as well as the touchpad.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Steve said:


> As we've seen, the lack of hard # buttons hasn't stopped Apple from selling 13 million iPhones so far.


Yeah, but the iPhone actually has the buttons to press on the touchscreen. It's not like with the 922 you'll be able to walk up to your tv and press the button like you can on an iPhone. Bad comparison.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> The key difference is that while the iPhone's keypad is virtual, it's still direct-input.
> 
> Ultimately, we'll see, as you said, but I think it was a bad decision to not at least include a keypad as well as the touchpad.





RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, but the iPhone actually has the buttons to press on the touchscreen. It's not like with the 922 you'll be able to walk up to your tv and press the button like you can on an iPhone. Bad comparison.


Like I said, I'll reserve judgement until I try it, rather than dismiss it out of hand. /steve


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, but the iPhone actually has the buttons to press on the touchscreen. It's not like with the 922 you'll be able to walk up to your tv and press the button like you can on an iPhone. Bad comparison.


Let me ask you this: If this thing shipped with a backlit remote with a keypad, what would your opinion of it be then?


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

jclewter79 said:


> Let me ask you this: If this thing shipped with a backlit remote with a keypad, what would your opinion of it be then?


I would say if it had a keypad (I don't even need a backlight) I would have a much higher opinion of it... the box looks good, the interface looks well-polished, and I already have a SlingBox Pro, so the idea of built-in Sling technology is fantastic.

However, all the goodies in the world won't help if the primary way to interface with the system is flawed.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

braven said:


> Doesn't really interest me either. I don't have a use for "sling" technology.


Until such time as DIRECTV online scheduling allows for manual conflict resolution and/or showing you what you already have scheduled (without having to maintain it in an online database), having a device that allows remote access is pretty handy.

Being able to watch important press conferences and the like from work is something I do at least once a week. My Slingbox allowed me to catch the Holiday Bowl (who dreamed up having a bowl game on a workday morning???) at work.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

longrider said:


> I'll stick with what I have. Sling technology is of no use to me, and i don't like what I have seen of the remote


Given that the remote is a spitting image of the DIRECTV remote, I'm not sure how you could dismiss it.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

harsh said:


> Given that the remote is a spitting image of the DIRECTV remote, I'm not sure how you could dismiss it.


What remote are you looking at? Dish's touchpad remote is nothing like the DirecTV remote.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

harsh said:


> Given that the remote is a spitting image of the DIRECTV remote, I'm not sure how you could dismiss it.


It doesn't look like a DirecTV remote to me


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> What remote are you looking at? Dish's touchpad remote is nothing like the DirecTV remote.


I was speaking of the Slingplayer remote. I see now that I probably was thinking of the wrong device.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

longrider said:


> It doesn't look like a DirecTV remote to me


Could he just be a little bit jealous, just a little.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

harsh said:


> I was speaking of the Slingplayer remote. I see now that I probably was thinking of the wrong device.


Gotcha.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

I would be interested if it could feed live video, not just recorded video like the HRXX does, to other TV sets, so you could use one receiver to feed several TVs. This would be handy for viewing on TVs that you don't use that often. Example: if you are not watching TV in the bedroom, you could send the signal from that receiver to the rarely used TV in the kitchen.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Of course all the fancy hardware in the world is no good to me if they drop my favorite channels at the drop of a hat because the CEO was cranky that day. That more then anything will keep me from ever getting Dish. I'd go to cable first (shudder).


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I have a sling box classic now and love it... I would love to see sling integrated into a directv box.. of course, it should not have any monthly service fees..


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> Of course all the fancy hardware in the world is no good to me if they drop my favorite channels at the drop of a hat because the CEO was cranky that day. That more then anything will keep me from ever getting Dish. I'd go to cable first (shudder).


That is not at all what I am talking about. We are talking about if ya'll would be interested if D* offered this receiver. Echostar is interesed selling rights to this box to other providers if they are interested.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> I have a sling box classic now and love it... I would love to see sling integrated into a directv box.. of course, it should not have any monthly service fees..


I have to agree, no fees.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

I've always been a big proponent of components over HTIAB, so I would have to pass on this device. 

I already have Sling, don't need a touchpad remote (I'd rather have an iPhone app that controls my HR over a proprietary remote), and have an eSATA that I could always upgrade for more space. 

I'm more interested in using existing hardware, and tweaking software using uPnP and DLNA to bring all my viewing possibilities together through the DVR via software.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

The 922 can have another hard drive hooked up via USB and, it increases storage it does not replace the internal hard drive.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

That's fair. I was just saying for me personally, I already have the eSATA and would upgrade that for more space if needed. So I'm just speaking for my DirecTV situation currently vs. if I would want a 922 instead.



jclewter79 said:


> The 922 can have another hard drive hooked up via USB and, it increases storage it does not replace the internal hard drive.


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## Xram (Nov 19, 2005)

Just give me a D* hd dvr that i can record 3 or more sat streams and i will be happy.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Canis Lupus said:


> That's fair. I was just saying for me personally, I already have the eSATA and would upgrade that for more space if needed. So I'm just speaking for my DirecTV situation currently vs. if I would want a 922 instead.


That is understandable. You are right your current hard drives would not be interchangeble with the new box.


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## slowmoe (Dec 18, 2005)

Since I really hate touch pads (even the one on my laptop). That would be sort of deal breaker, depending on options I may have with 3rd party remotes. Also since I am not a big time traveler but still have a life, I see no benefits from sling technology. As far as the 1 tb drive, nice but over kill. Really folks how much do you really need to store or play x's before you delete. What would be nice is to be able to burn to DVD for a small lic fee. The unit does however look cosmetically pleasing. No one likes a ugly set top box on their rack. Last having just switched from E to D last Sunday (1/4/09). I have not had enough time to kick the tires on the HR22. But I do see were some more features such as adding You Tube or streaming Netflix would be nice. Since the latter would never happen do to taking away from current offerings, I will settle for any new improvements that come along. At least for the 2 year commitment I just signed for. Even then my money says E still wont have HD locals here in Vegas, but that's another topic. So bottom line , nice but not interested at this time.:nono2:


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

ImBack234 said:


> I can picture it now D* selling a DVR that actually works. Wow that would be a first. :lol:


Both of ours work perfectly.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

harsh said:


> Until such time as DIRECTV online scheduling allows for manual conflict resolution and/or showing you what you already have scheduled (without having to maintain it in an online database), having a device that allows remote access is pretty handy.
> 
> Being able to watch important press conferences and the like from work is something I do at least once a week. My Slingbox allowed me to catch the Holiday Bowl (who dreamed up having a bowl game on a workday morning???) at work.


Hmm, when I'm at work I work. Go figure.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

All you guys bashing the Touch Screen on this remote will be all over the new remote that Stu is talkin' about in the other thread.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

dodge boy said:


> All you guys bashing the Touch Screen on this remote will be all over the new remote that Stu is talkin' about in the other thread.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/member.php?u=22754


Which thread?


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## Maverickster (Sep 20, 2007)

Well, to each his own, but with 9 months left on my contract with DirecTV, I'll be a Dish subscriber with a 922 in 10 months unless DirecTV does something to seriously close the gap here. When I signed up originally, they were about to launch a bunch of new HD channels (which they did) and their "undisputed HD leader" status made putting up with this POS DVR (HR20) worth it. But, since then, they've done basically nothing while the others have closed the gap significantly on the HD content (to the point where, imho, the DirecTV lead is insignificant), and then Dish launches a device like the 922 at CES (and DirecTV does nothing of consequence)....Seriously, what happened to this provider? I used to be proud to be a DirecTV subscriber because I felt like they were really "doing something"...now, I just feel like they're becoming the Comcast of the Sat Cos.

So, to the original question, unless DirecTV does something dramatic in the next 9 months (e.g. significantly increases HD content/capacity, dramatically improves the software for the existing HD receivers/DVRs, or launches a similarly feature-rich device to the 922), well, I'm gone.

--Mav

P.S. Early rumblings about the issue with universal remotes like the Harmonys not supporting the touchpad are that the 922 will likely have the IR codes for the numeric keys and will certainly allow navigation via the standard "wheel" type, so no worries for me there with my 890.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> What remote are you looking at? Dish's touchpad remote is nothing like the DirecTV remote.


The Slingbox remote you see on the PC screen is what he was talking about.

The 922 will work with any universal remotes for this precise reason, because if a Sling remote (with all the buttons) can control it, so can any other remote.

The touchpad remote is the default remote but other remotes are optional.


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## webby_s (Jan 11, 2008)

I would be interested in a Tivo, D* HR** SlingLoaded style DVR, YES!!! Bring it on but that remote is hidious!


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## DrZaius (Jan 24, 2006)

All that I will add is that Dish BLOWS! There interface SUCKS, there remote SUCKS, there use of voom upconverted hd SUCKED, everything they do SUCKS. Directv is moving at light speed with their DVR technology compared to the rumors and innuendo that comes from dish. THEY BLOW! 

but I am not biased or anything


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

DrZaius said:


> Directv is moving at light speed with their DVR technology compared to the rumors and innuendo that comes from dish.


Given the length of the wish list (and how long some of the items have been on it) as well as the duration of some of the popular beta feature tests, I'm hoping the weather is nice in your dimension.


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## Cobra (Aug 9, 2006)

I cant believe all the harsh comments, I dont know if I would switch or not, but I think it is a slick piece, why people get upset over remotes?? I think it is cool, now if it is problem free or not, we'll see. The best thing about it is, E will push Dtv to keep up on changing technologies, just as Dtv pushed other companies to add more hd programs to there lineup. Hopefully it will push Dtv to add newer technology of there own, time will tell.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

Cobra said:


> just as Dtv pushed other companies to add more hd programs to there lineup.


They do....


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## jessshaun (Sep 14, 2005)

I'd be VERY interested in the 922. I wouldn't leave Directv for it, however. It'd have to be able to pick up Directv programming. I switched from Dish a year ago, and have no plans to go back. ... at least right now. Things could always change.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> Which thread?


Sorry I don't know how that link got there, I copied the wrong thing.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149722


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

dodge boy said:


> Sorry I don't know how that link got there, I copied the wrong thing.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149722


Those are very nice remotes. Can't wait to see one in action.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> Given the length of the wish list (and how long some of the items have been on it)...


I don't agree with that poster either, but how many of those HR2x Wish List requests are already part of the VIP platform? /steve


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve said:


> I don't agree with that poster either, but how many of those HR2x Wish List requests are already part of the VIP platform? /steve


Starting at the top of the list:

o Ability to vary SLOW MOTION speed using the FF/REW buttons.
o Satellite signal strength test should default to the sat/transponder for the current channel.
o Ability to key in the channel number directly when setting up a manual recording.
o Offer a "Keep At Most" option for recurring manual recordings.
o Increase the PRIORITIZER/SERIES LINK limit to more than 50.
o Ability to manually tune to an available over-the-air channel not in the GUIDE.
o Ability to remotely control more than two HR20/21's in the same room via IR. [16 allowed]
o Dual Live Buffers - Toggle between two live shows with 30+ minute buffers on each. [is this really a "new feature"?]
o Picture-In-Picture/Picture-by-Picture capability.
o Allow the HR20 to simultaneously accept IR (infrared) and RF (radio frequency) remote control signals. [when in single mode]

There's probably a few I missed.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

harsh said:


> Starting at the top of the list:
> 
> o Ability to vary SLOW MOTION speed using the FF/REW buttons.
> o Satellite signal strength test should default to the sat/transponder for the current channel.
> ...


It was a rhetorical question, because you listing 10 out of 75-80 or our Wish List requests doesn't prove a point. I'm pretty sure there are at least 5-10 things the HR2x's do already that the VIP users wish their boxes would do.

My point is that putting the coolness of the 922's Sling integration aside, there are plenty of long-standing issues with VIP's. I read the Dish threads, but I don't choose to be critical of those that made a different equipment or provider choice than I did, in their own home.

/steve


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve said:


> I read the Dish threads, but I don't choose to be critical of those that made a different equipment or provider choice than I did, in their own home.


You asked a question that didn't seem at all rhetorical to me and I answered it directly and with as little editorial as possible.

As a matter of fact, I think it may well lend credence to some of those requests (as if there were any doubt that the requests were valid).

Surely there are features that the HR2x series has that the ViP series users are lusting for. A second OTA tuner would be high on the list.


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## ccr1958 (Aug 29, 2007)

at this point in time i am intrigued but not interested...
i watch too much tv as it is


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

ImBack234 said:


> They do....


They (DirecTV) already did.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

jclewter79 said:


> Let me ask you this: If this thing shipped with a backlit remote with a keypad, what would your opinion of it be then?


That would make it more acceptable and a 1st too,as Dish does not have a backlit remote.

Then there the idea that Dish's 2 TV outputs should be both HD capable,not one HD the other SD.Then there's other things,but that belong in a different thread.:sure:


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

I am not sure of the remote either, but I will have an open mind till I tried one out. If TV2 would have a HD out instead of SD only, that would have gone a long way. Being able to record 3 or more inputs(SAT and ANT) is nice.

DirectTV and Dish are both increasing the number of local markets in HD. Once your market has HD locals over satellite, most users aren't going to hook up an antenna. How about having 3 or 4 Sat inputs and being record them currently would be the way to go.?


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Jhon69 said:


> That would make it more acceptable and a 1st too,as Dish does not have a backlit remote.
> 
> Then there the idea that Dish's 2 TV outputs should be both HD capable,not one HD the other SD.Then there's other things,but that belong in a different thread.:sure:


I agree that TV2 should output HD. Until there is a cheap way to do that included in a free install it won't happen. It is better to have it output SD than nothing at all in my opinion.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

Jhon69 said:


> They (DirecTV) already did.


I guess that was a very long time ago....:eek2:


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

kevinwmsn said:


> I am not sure of the remote either, but I will have an open mind till I tried one out. If TV2 would have a HD out instead of SD only, that would have gone a long way. Being able to record 3 or more inputs(SAT and ANT) is nice.
> 
> DirectTV and Dish are both increasing the number of local markets in HD. Once your market has HD locals over satellite, most users aren't going to hook up an antenna. How about having 3 or 4 Sat inputs and being record them currently would be the way to go.?


Well it has already been both noted and posted, that the 922 will work with other remotes, not just the included one. It still supports DLB, and lots of other features, Direct doesn't. 
Home Network stuff needs to be seen if you can sling out a tuner to a slingcatcher/reciever. I do use my OTA tuner, as I can get local channels that both Direct and Dish don't carry.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ImBack234 said:


> I guess that was a very long time ago....:eek2:


Not that long ago at all. Once upon a time in the great year of 2005 there were not that many HD channels at all. Cable carried very little if any. DirecTV carried less then a dozen, Dish about 20-25 including Voom (leapfrogging over DirecTV which had held the lead for a year or so).

Then in 2006 DirecTV exploded to well over 50, approaching 100.

Dish and cable have spent the last 2 years catching up. Dish has virtually caught up. Most cable systems are still left in the dust but all are pushing hard to expand their HD options. And then there is FIOS and Uverse which typically have comparable HD lineups (now).

DirecTV started the current explosion of HD channel additions.

I didn't mention that just 5 years ago there were what, 5 HD channels even available?


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> Not that long ago at all. Once upon a time in the great year of 2005 there were not that many HD channels at all. Cable carried very little if any. DirecTV carried less then a dozen, Dish about 20-25 including Voom (leapfrogging over DirecTV which had held the lead for a year or so).
> 
> Then in 2006 DirecTV exploded to well over 50, approaching 100.
> 
> ...


Boy thats a one sided explanation. But it did give ma a chuckle.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ImBack234 said:


> Boy thats a one sided explanation. But it did give ma a chuckle.


LOL. Seriously though it is the truth of the history of HD expansion. DirecTV did it in a huge way and blew by everyone for about a year. Everyone else has been playing catch up the past 2 years and some have done it in the past year. Can't deny history.


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## CoachGibbs (May 23, 2007)

Considering how much better the Dish HD DVR's are than the HR20's I'd definitely be interested in the 922. Not enough to get me to switch back at this point, however.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Not that long ago at all. Once upon a time in the great year of 2005 there were not that many HD channels at all. Cable carried very little if any. DirecTV carried less then a dozen, Dish about 20-25 including Voom (leapfrogging over DirecTV which had held the lead for a year or so).
> 
> Then in 2006 DirecTV exploded to well over 50, approaching 100.
> 
> ...


2006? It was late in 2007 they launched D10 and started expanding their HD lineup. Don't let the actual dates get in the way of a good story though.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

Ken S said:


> 2006? It was late in 2007 they launched D10 and started expanding their HD lineup. Don't let the actual dates get in the way of a good story though.


LOL.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken S said:


> 2006? It was late in 2007 they launched D10 and started expanding their HD lineup. Don't let the actual dates get in the way of a good story though.


LOL. Makes the story even better. We've only had a real HD lineup among the various providers for less then 2 years. More like a year and a half.


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

Wow, nothing like this thread to show me how biased this forum is. I think half the post practically said, "I hate Dish, so no"

For those that said Sling is of no use to me, why? Slow internet connection? Never leave the house? What?

Also, what does the Dish v. DirecTV lineup have to do with anything? We were talking about DirecTV using the 922, not switching to Dish. No worries about losing your precious sports programming or anything.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

HDRoberts said:


> Wow, nothing like this thread to show me how biased this forum is. I think half the post practically said, "I hate Dish, so no"
> 
> For those that said Sling is of no use to me, why? Slow internet connection? Never leave the house? What?
> 
> Also, what does the Dish v. DirecTV lineup have to do with anything? We were talking about DirecTV using the 922, not switching to Dish. No worries about losing your precious sports programming or anything.


So the reason a Dish fan is posting in the DirecTV threads is what again...???

I saw the a personal 922 demo at the CEs 2 days ago...while it is a nice unit overall, and some may enjoy the Sling built-in....it can be replicated in the DriecTV world with separate components (and many have done that already).

I agree it is a nice unit in general, but in the spirit of the fact that this is a DirecTV forum area....let's just say it's nice....but it won't make a whole lot of people migrate to Dish in and of itself.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

It is not important to me who MAKES my receiver, the important thing to me is what features does the unit I am using have and receiving the programing I want from my service.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

loudo said:


> It is not important to me who MAKES my receiver, the important thing to me is what features does the unit I am using have and receiving the programing I want from my service.


Certainly a very reasonable and realistic expectation.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

I think that the technology would not be compatable between Echo and Directv and getting the two to work together would be harder than putting a cow on the dome of the science building at MIT and keeping it there. I am not interested for that reason


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So the reason a Dish fan is posting in the DirecTV threads is what again...???
> 
> I saw the a personal 922 demo at the CEs 2 days ago...while it is a nice unit overall, and some may enjoy the Sling built-in....it can be replicated in the DriecTV world with separate components (and many have done that already).
> 
> I agree it is a nice unit in general, but in the spirit of the fact that this is a DirecTV forum area....let's just say it's nice....but it won't make a whole lot of people migrate to Dish in and of itself.


Slinging between Receivers and to remote devices via internet connection is just one aspect.

Just looking at the List of items that people would like to see from Direct, that the 922 will offer.
5 Tuners, 
Multiple LIVE BUFFERS
PiP
Autotune
MRV(via Sling) between recievers(How long have Direct people been waiting on this?)
External hard drive that "moves" to any reciever on your account. Granted its for for archive, but you can still back up your reciever an all its shows. Record for this point forward
CIG that works
Just for beginners.

Focusing on just Slinging to internet, misses the mark. Just look at the DLB forum, whats really important, and what I want from Direct this year, forum's. If the product worked with Direct programming, and you get the features, that you want, why wouldn't you want to buy it?


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So the reason a Dish fan is posting in the DirecTV threads is what again...???
> 
> I saw the a personal 922 demo at the CEs 2 days ago...while it is a nice unit overall, and some may enjoy the Sling built-in....it can be replicated in the DriecTV world with separate components (and many have done that already).
> 
> I agree it is a nice unit in general, but in the spirit of the fact that this is a DirecTV forum area....let's just say it's nice....but it won't make a whole lot of people migrate to Dish in and of itself.


That pretty much sums it up. While having everything in one unit is nice it's not something that cannot be duplicated by a DIRECTV customer. I've had a SlingBox AV attached to my R22-200 ever since I got the unit.

Guess you had a better demo than I did *hdtvfan0001*, the Dish representative had to reset the unit twice when I was there. :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Just looking at the List of items that people would like to see from Direct, that the 922 will offer.
> 5 Tuners,
> Multiple LIVE BUFFERS
> MRV(via Sling)
> ...


Unfortunately, only about half of those "features" actually could be demoed in the Dish booth by their lead expert on the unit at the CES - he stated to me that several don't work in a production unit yet - it's still betaware...which is what I'd expect at this kind of a tech show...prototypes.

...and yes, he had to reboot the unit twice during my 15 minute demo...

While the prototype seemed nice, by the time it all sees the light of day - who knows what DirecTV will have...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Unfortunately, only about half of those "features" actually could be demoed in the Dish booth by their lead expert on the unit at the CES - he stated to me that several don't work in a production unit yet - it's still betaware...which is what I'd expect at this kind of a tech show...prototypes.
> 
> ...and yes, he had to reboot the unit twice during my 15 minute demo...
> 
> While the prototype seemed nice, by the time it all sees the light of day - who knows what DirecTV will have...


Judging from what we've seen in the past...DirecTV will probably still have media share and Direc2PC still in beta and Channels I Get still not working.

The 922 is a nice attempt at moving the technology forward. I know it's not as revolutionary as remote control with an NFL logo on it, but it at least shows that other companies in the industry are pushing the technology.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Unfortunately, only about half of those "features" actually could be demoed in the Dish booth by their lead expert on the unit at the CES - he stated to me that several don't work in a production unit yet - it's still betaware...which is what I'd expect at this kind of a tech show...prototypes.
> 
> ...and yes, he had to reboot the unit twice during my 15 minute demo...
> 
> While the prototype seemed nice, by the time it all sees the light of day - who knows what DirecTV will have...


Prototypes are just that, buggy by description.
DLB, PiP, Autotune, Moveable Hard drive, Subscribe only guide(Channels I Get/CIG) are already inplace, with the Current ViP machines and slinging to PC( at HD) and to slingcatchers are something Sling can do now. The SlingHDPRO features, slinging between recievers and the "New" guide, that will truely be the only NEW features to the ViP series,. All others features are just moving the feature between existing software to new software.
So if it works with Direct, how many people would jump on it just for WORKING DLB? A highly requested feature.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Prototypes are just that, buggy by description...
> 
> ...So if it works with Direct, how many people would jump on it just for WORKING DLB?


Only the Shadow knows for sure...


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

:lol::lol::lol:


hdtvfan0001 said:


> Only the Shadow knows for sure...


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> Slinging between Receivers and to remote devices via internet connection is just one aspect.
> 
> Just looking at the List of items that people would like to see from Direct, that the 922 will offer.
> 5 Tuners,
> ...


Thanks you. There is a lot the 922 can do that you can't just build out of existing stuff. Having 2 Sat tuners and 2 OTA tuners work AT THE SAME TIME. Another big thing: you have a slingbox hooked up to your HR series, you are going to take command of the TV from whoever is at home. With the 922, tuner 2 will be used for the live TV sling. And when slinging a DVR recording, anyone at home won't even notice.

As for what DirecTV will do, who knows? For all we know, nothing. The only new receiver rumored to be in the works is the HD DirecTivo. Otherwise, weren't all other capital projects just canceled? And it's not like their track record shows a long history of topping Dish boxes. Why would the be compelled to top the 922 with their own product? Heck, they can't very easily on the Sling side since Dish owns sling.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> Thanks you. There is a lot the 922 can do that you can't just build out of existing stuff. Having 2 Sat tuners and 2 OTA tuners work AT THE SAME TIME. Another big thing: you have a slingbox hooked up to your HR series, you are going to take command of the TV from whoever is at home. With the 922, tuner 2 will be used for the live TV sling. And when slinging a DVR recording, anyone at home won't even notice.


Ya. With the BCM7400 CPU in here, there's plenty of horsepower to make all this happen, so even if the code is not right today, getting it right will probably just be a matter of debugging code, rather than pushing h/w capability to its limits.

What appeals to me most is the prospect of 4-tuner simultaneous recording (2 Sat and 2 OTA). For all practical purposes, I'd never have to worry about conflicts again! Also, being able to Sling to my cell-phone or laptop at 1.5 mbps would be nice. No worries about wireless-G bandwidth. /steve


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

HDRoberts said:


> Thanks you. There is a lot the 922 can do that you can't just build out of existing stuff. Having 2 Sat tuners and 2 OTA tuners work AT THE SAME TIME. Another big thing: you have a slingbox hooked up to your HR series, you are going to take command of the TV from whoever is at home. With the 922, tuner 2 will be used for the live TV sling. And when slinging a DVR recording, anyone at home won't even notice.


Of course the external slingbox that I have now, can sling from my HR20, my DVD jukebox, and cable. As long as a different device is watched from what the TV is watching, no problem. Will the internal sling have the capability to add other devices for slinging?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Steve said:


> Ya. With the BCM7400 CPU in here, there's plenty of horsepower to make all this happen, so even if the code is not right today, getting it right will probably just be a matter of debugging code, rather than pushing h/w capability to its limits.
> 
> What appeals to me most is the prospect of 4-tuner simultaneous recording (2 Sat and 2 OTA). For all practical purposes, I'd never have to worry about conflicts again! Also, being able to Sling to my cell-phone or laptop at 1.5 mbps would be nice. No worries about wireless-G bandwidth. /steve


Don't forget that 5th tuner, the Internet Tuner.
At 1st I brushed of the Internet Tuner as a novelty, cool youtube sites on the TV(crappy videos') Novelty though. Then I started thinking about the Internet Tuner being used with Netflix or Blockbuster(I use my Xbox360 for Netflix and enjoy it), nobody has talked about it being that way, so I brushed it off. Wife, likes the Internet Tuner because, if she misses a show she could always go online to ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX or whatever and watch the Episode that way, we don't miss much, so still a Novelty, nice one though as a just incase. Then yesterday during the Charger/Pittsburgh game, the NFL.com ran a commerical, starting next year you will be able to watch any NFL game once its completed from thier NFL.com/HD website. NOW the Internet Tuner became, VERY interesting. As long as the NFL.com/HD website is as good as the Netflix HD website, the Internet tuner my be more valuable than the other 4. Will the NFL website replace the NFL ST, No, but for some of us, it will be a very useful site. I know Direct has the DLB workaround, but still its not DLB, and you still only get 4 games on it that you can watch/record. For hometeam viewing when you are not in the Hometeam market anymore, the money spent for NFL ST, will be worth it. For those that don't want to spend that much money, or Can't get the NFL ST, the new NFL HD site will be KILLER.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DogLover said:


> Of course the external slingbox that I have now, can sling from my HR20, my DVD jukebox, and cable. As long as a different device is watched from what the TV is watching, no problem. Will the internal sling have the capability to add other devices for slinging?


The 922 will be able to slingout to, the other VIP Recievers, a SlingHDTV with wifi, that EchoStar will be selling, as well as being able to slingout to internet devices such as your laptop, and Smartphone and Cellphone. While slinging out to other devices, it will be seamless to the viewer of the TV phyically connected to the 922.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So the reason a Dish fan is posting in the DirecTV threads is what again...???
> 
> I saw the a personal 922 demo at the CEs 2 days ago...while it is a nice unit overall, and some may enjoy the Sling built-in....it can be replicated in the DriecTV world with separate components (and many have done that already).
> 
> I agree it is a nice unit in general, but in the spirit of the fact that this is a DirecTV forum area....let's just say it's nice....but it won't make a whole lot of people migrate to Dish in and of itself.


I stated in my first post that I did not start this thread to start an arguement at all. I did not start it to ask if anyone will be canceling D* to go to Dish to get this thing. I started it to ask if you could get it though D*, would you? You had a personal demo of the box, which is alot more than I have seen of it. If you say that you would rather build your own system out of D* components to do what the 922 can do, I beleive you. And, I think that is a valid opinion. There is a slight chance that this box will be seen working for cable companies, telcos, and D*. My question is more the D* customers opinion of Echostar equipment, not Dish Network service. They are two different things.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> Don't forget that 5th tuner, the Internet Tuner.
> At 1st I brushed of the Internet Tuner as a novelty, cool youtube sites on the TV(crappy videos') Novelty though. Then I started thinking about the Internet Tuner being used with Netflix or Blockbuster(I use my Xbox360 for Netflix and enjoy it), nobody has talked about it being that way, so I brushed it off. Wife, likes the Internet Tuner because, if she misses a show she could always go online to ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX or whatever and watch the Episode that way, we don't miss much, so still a Novelty, nice one though as a just incase. Then yesterday during the Charger/Pittsburgh game, the NFL.com ran a commerical, starting next year you will be able to watch any NFL game once its completed from thier NFL.com/HD website. NOW the Internet Tuner became, VERY interesting. As long as the NFL.com/HD website is as good as the Netflix HD website, the Internet tuner my be more valuable than the other 4. Will the NFL website replace the NFL ST, No, but for some of us, it will be a very useful site. I know Direct has the DLB workaround, but still its not DLB, and you still only get 4 games on it that you can watch/record. For hometeam viewing when you are not in the Hometeam market anymore, the money spent for NFL ST, will be worth it. For those that don't want to spend that much money, or Can't get the NFL ST, the new NFL HD site will be KILLER.


Ya, but that tuner doesn't cause conflicts.  I have it now as a third tuner, courtesy of DirecTV's "on demand", and by it's nature, it will never "bump" a SAT or OTA recording.

Since I have a great OTA roof antenna already and I often want to record 3 network shows in the same time slot (and 4 rarely, but occasionally), the 922 configuration fits my needs perfectly. /steve


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jclewter79 said:


> I stated in my first post that I did not start this thread to start an arguement at all. I did not start it to ask if anyone will be canceling D* to go to Dish to get this thing. I started it to ask if you could get it though D*, would you? You had a personal demo of the box, which is alot more than I have seen of it. If you say that you would rather build your own system out of D* components to do what the 922 can do, I beleive you. And, I think that is a valid opinion. There is a slight chance that this box will be seen working for cable companies, telcos, and D*. My question is more the D* customers opinion of Echostar equipment, not Dish Network service. They are two different things.


No arguments seen here....but yes, having seen the box...if it were fully functional....I can see how DirecTV customers would like to see the same kind of a box in "their" provider version.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> The 922 will be able to slingout to, the other VIP Recievers, a SlingHDTV with wifi, that EchoStar will be selling, as well as being able to slingout to internet devices such as your laptop, and Smartphone and Cellphone. While slinging out to other devices, it will be seamless to the viewer of the TV phyically connected to the 922.


I think you misunderstood. I'm not talking about where I can sling out to, but where I can sling in from. With a standalong slingbox, I can have 3 different input devices connect to it. That's something that imagine they didn't put into the integrated sling capability of this box.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

jclewter79 said:


> I stated in my first post that I did not start this thread to start an arguement at all. I did not start it to ask if anyone will be canceling D* to go to Dish to get this thing. I started it to ask if you could get it though D*, would you? You had a personal demo of the box, which is alot more than I have seen of it. If you say that you would rather build your own system out of D* components to do what the 922 can do, I beleive you. And, I think that is a valid opinion. There is a slight chance that this box will be seen working for cable companies, telcos, and D*. My question is more the D* customers opinion of Echostar equipment, not Dish Network service. They are two different things.


You bring up a good idea, "IF" it works with Direct, would you get the 922.
No were did you say, will you jump ship to Dish for a 922. 
Its a interesting concept for EchoStar to sell Hardware to all the competition, not just DBS competition.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

hmm Charlie Ergen selling technology that he developed to another company that he competes with? Interesting.

Remember his nickname among Directv customers



Spoiler



you will have to ask me privately


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Steve said:


> Ya, but that tuner doesn't cause conflicts.  I have it now as a third tuner, courtesy of DirecTV's "on demand", and by it's nature, it will never "bump" a SAT or OTA recording.
> 
> Since I have a great OTA roof antenna already and I often want to record 3 network shows in the same time slot (and 4 rarely, but occasionally), the 922 configuration fits my needs perfectly. /steve


Never thought the on demand, or video on demand as a tuner, but I get what you are saying.

I do have same situation sometimes between the wife's shows and my shows and the kids. Normally we split them up between the 622 and 612, but there are a few nights, where I just want to be able to watch a movie, or a game ran long or something, and have 1 OTA tuner, and 2 Sat's all recording other peoples shows. I could move one of the Sat shows to an OTA, and have one tuner to continue watching what I want, instead of being forced to watch something I am recording. 
Not sure if the Internet tuner will work the same as your on demand does now. Dish already has DLB working now, so who knows how they will work all 5 tuners in, as they already have a button that allows you to select between tuners( I AM NOT THAT HYPED about the NEW remote, just Happy I have alternatives to it)


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

curt8403 said:


> I think that the technology would not be compatable between Echo and Directv and getting the two to work together would be harder than putting a cow on the dome of the science building at MIT and keeping it there. I am not interested for that reason


They both use two different methods of MPG4 Encryption, DirecTV uses Videoguard and DISH uses Nagravision 3. So that would require different software fro DirecTV than what DISH would have in their units.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

curt8403 said:


> hmm Charlie Ergen selling technology that he developed to another company that he competes with? Interesting.
> 
> Remember his nickname among Directv customers
> 
> ...


But with Echostar being a seperate company from Dish I wonder if there could be some stockholder suits if DirecTV did try to get Echostar to make a version for them but Charlie (which is CEO of both companies) refused?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Steve said:


> Ya. With the BCM7400 CPU in here, there's plenty of horsepower to make all this happen, so even if the code is not right today, getting it right will probably just be a matter of debugging code, rather than pushing h/w capability to its limits.
> 
> What appeals to me most is the prospect of 4-tuner simultaneous recording (2 Sat and 2 OTA). For all practical purposes, I'd never have to worry about conflicts again! Also, being able to Sling to my cell-phone or laptop at 1.5 mbps would be nice. No worries about wireless-G bandwidth. /steve


Broadcomm recently announced both a 7410 and 7420 chip. Among other things, these chips offer 50% more processing power, MoCA support (ethernet over coax), and full DLNA compliance!

The more expensive 7420 chip also offers RF transceiver capability, for wirelessly transmitting files to and from the receiver. The fact that the 922 offers full DLNA support and that its remote can store timers (SL's) and configuration data makes me wonder if, in fact, the 922 isn't based on the newer 8420 chip? Anyone know if this might not be a possibility? TIA. /steve


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I agree the 922 has some nice features, some of which I would like on DirecTV receivers. But one thing I like about what DirecTV has done so fare is all the new features and capabilities that they have added since the first HR2X came to market is that they work across all the HR2X's, no need to go out an buy a new box. So far what I've seen mentioned on the Sling capability is if you want to use it on something besides your PC you need to go out and buy new hardware. If DirecTV follows along with what they've done in the past we won't need to replace hardware to make use of multi room viewing, which to me is a big advantage.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DogLover said:


> I think you misunderstood. I'm not talking about where I can sling out to, but where I can sling in from. With a standalong slingbox, I can have 3 different input devices connect to it. That's something that imagine they didn't put into the integrated sling capability of this box.


Yes, I did miss read your post, sorry about that.
Not sure how the DRM Police, would feel about that all being run to a DVR, nor do I want to have to watch a DVD, just so somebody else could.
I believe some use the OTA as a cable life line for locals, so you would be able to bring in Cable as one of the OTA tuners, and sling that out, and record it as well. I know not everybody is in the same boat, but I can't think of a single time I would need to sling a DVD feed, between inhouse DVD players, Xbox360's, Laptops, and even portable DVD players.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

I seriously want something like the VIP 922, but I'll be just as happy with an HD DirecTivo.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> I agree the 922 has some nice features, some of which I would like on DirecTV receivers. But one thing I like about what DirecTV has done so fare is all the new features and capabilities that they have added since the first HR2X came to market is that they work across all the HR2X's, no need to go out an buy a new box. So far what I've seen mentioned on the Sling capability is if you want to use it on something besides your PC you need to go out and buy new hardware. If DirecTV follows along with what they've done in the past we won't need to replace hardware to make use of multi room viewing, which to me is a big advantage.


I agree, getting MRV without new hardware, on the HRxx would be nice, and hope it happens. It still leaves out, DLB, PiP, Autotune, for starter features that just wont work with the current HRxx systems. Whats nice about the 922 is being able to allow another recievers to see its tuners. Slingcatcher device that supports HD output,(who wants just SD) would allow you via Home Network to allow a backroom, downstairs, upstairs TV, Direct service without having to add a reciever and cabling to that TV, with 4-5 tuners to chose from, not just recorded material.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

GrumpyBear said:


> Slingcatcher device that supports HD output,(who wants just SD) would allow you via Home Network to allow a backroom, downstairs, upstairs TV, Direct service without having to add a reciever and cabling to that TV, with 4-5 tuners to chose from, not just recorded material.


OK, don't add a receiver but buy a Slingcatcher for $250 to $299 and according to the Sling site it doesn't support HD at this time. And while not digging into the specs only one Slingcatcher could connect to a 922 at a time, want more get more 922's? And if you had a TV at the location there would most likely be cabling there already so why does that matter?


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

RAD said:


> OK, don't add a receiver but buy a Slingcatcher for $250 to $299 and according to the Sling site it doesn't support HD at this time. And while not digging into the specs only one Slingcatcher could connect to a 922 at a time, want more get more 922's? And if you had a TV at the location there would most likely be cabling there already so why does that matter?


Glad you said that. I was ready to buy one and I hadn't noticed that 640 x 480 max. I just saw the HDMI and component connections and figured it would be HD out. That wouldn't make a very good picture on my HDTV. Guess I will stick with my baluns for now.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> OK, don't add a receiver but buy a Slingcatcher for $250 to $299 and according to the Sling site it doesn't support HD at this time. And while not digging into the specs only one Slingcatcher could connect to a 922 at a time, want more get more 922's? And if you had a TV at the location there would most likely be cabling there already so why does that matter?


Hehehe,
Ok, this is going on in a different thread, here it goes here too, 720p and 1080i are only supported. 1080p isn't, because of the nasty DRM requirements, and so no HDMI output.
Who in the world pays LIST pricing? You have to buy lease the 922, nothing has been said about pricing of slingcatcher devices, Could be nothing more than a 211 or something like that, nobody pays 300 dollars on a 2nd DVR, let alone 300 for just a reciever. Granted, 3rd or 4th DVR could cost you that much but different subject.
MRV still requires a reciever for all the other Networked TV's, so yes MRV will cost as well. For those that already have a ViP DVR, no extra cost, other than the 922. IF the 922 worked with the HRxx DVR and NON-DVR recievers, and supply MRV, of not only recored content, but of tuners as well..... Then add in, Multiple Live buffers, Autotune, CIG, why wouldn't it be good for Direct people? HDMI has been included now, so looks like the webpage and even the CNET review are already outdated.

_CNET testing:
The component video connections of the Slingbox Pro-HD have no trouble processing HD video (720p and 1080i, but not 1080p). An HDMI connector would've been nice, but that would introduce pesky copyright protection and digital-rights management issues. Nevertheless, be aware that some cable boxes can't support parallel HD video output (simultaneous HDMI and component video), so if you already have the cable box connected via HDMI, you might need to use component (passed through the Slingbox to the TV)._


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

GrumpyBear said:


> Hehehe,
> Ok, this is going on in a different thread, here it goes here too, 720p and 1080i are only supported. 1080p isn't, because of the nasty DRM requirements, and so no HDMI output.
> Who in the world pays LIST pricing? You have to buy lease the 922, nothing has been said about pricing of slingcatcher devices, Could be nothing more than a 211 or something like that, nobody pays 300 dollars on a 2nd DVR, let alone 300 for just a reciever. Granted, 3rd or 4th DVR could cost you that much but different subject.
> MRV still requires a reciever for all the other Networked TV's, so yes MRV will cost as well. For those that already have a ViP DVR, no extra cost, other than the 922. IF the 922 worked with the HRxx DVR and NON-DVR recievers, and supply MRV, of not only recored content, but of tuners as well..... Then add in, Multiple Live buffers, Autotune, CIG, why wouldn't it be good for Direct people?
> ...


Slingcatcher pricing on the Sling site was $299, I did a quick look and saw it down to $249, that's how I came up with the pricing. It was also the Sling site that said the Slingcatcher didn't support HD at this time. All your comments from CNet are about the Slingbox Pro-HD, what does that have to do with the 922 and the Slingcatcher?

As for MRV on DirecTV we don't know all the details on how it will work and what's supported. My point was that so far all the new functionality that they've added has come at zero dollars, you had the box you got the new feature. If DirecTV follows what they've done then it might be that you can use your existing hardware without spending a penny on anything.

And I never said I wouldn't like to see DLB and some of the other things, just that I like getting new features/functions without having to go out and buy new hardware. And who knows, maybe DirecTV will add some of those features on their existing boxes again for free like they've done in the past.


----------



## scott72 (Feb 17, 2008)

HDRoberts said:


> Wow, nothing like this thread to show me how biased this forum is. I think half the post practically said, "I hate Dish, so no"
> 
> For those that said Sling is of no use to me, why? Slow internet connection? Never leave the house? What?
> 
> Also, what does the Dish v. DirecTV lineup have to do with anything? We were talking about DirecTV using the 922, not switching to Dish. No worries about losing your precious sports programming or anything.


LOL..Can't tell which sat service you have..


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> Slingcatcher pricing on the Sling site was $299, I did a quick look and saw it down to $249, that's how I came up with the pricing. It was also the Sling site that said the Slingcatcher didn't support HD at this time. All your comments from CNet are about the Slingbox Pro-HD, what does that have to do with the 922 and the Slingcatcher?
> 
> As for MRV on DirecTV we don't know all the details on how it will work and what's supported. My point was that so far all the new functionality that they've added has come at zero dollars, you had the box you got the new feature. If DirecTV follows what they've done then it might be that you can use your existing hardware without spending a penny on anything.
> 
> And I never said I wouldn't like to see DLB and some of the other things, just that I like getting new features/functions without having to go out and buy new hardware. And who knows, maybe DirecTV will add some of those features on their existing boxes again for free like they've done in the past.


Granted, in these times, not having to spend extra money is a *HUGE plus*,I can understand and relate to that issue.
I am only willing to step up to the 922, as it will work with my 622. From what I understand it looks like MRV will work with existing HRxx systems, the backlash if it didn't would be Very LOUD.
$199 is really about the most I would spend, as this year will be tighter, and only because it will work with existing Hardware in the house, if it didn't work with currently installed ViP DVR's, I don't think I would even be considering the 922. No way could I, nor would I upgrade everything in the house, for just this one device. I have a 522, that I will drop to add the 922, and have a 211 waiting in the wings just incase. I wouldn't recommend a 922 to a Direct person unless it worked with existing HRxx machines. As the OP stated if it worked with Direct, how many? Not how many would replace everthing for a 922.


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## scott72 (Feb 17, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> Slinging between Receivers and to remote devices via internet connection is just one aspect.
> 
> Just looking at the List of items that people would like to see from Direct, that the 922 will offer.
> 5 Tuners,
> ...


And how many people are actually interested in that stuff? Less than 3% of all subs including the people that hang out here? Keep in mind that 97% (give or take a few percentage pts) of subs out there just want a receiver/DVR that does the basic stuff, and many of those subs don't even know what HD is let alone all those fancy smancie options. Are some of those features nice? Of course, but pretty unrealistic to the average sub.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

scott72 said:


> And how many people are actually interested in that stuff? Less than 3% of all subs including the people that hang out here? Keep in mind that 97% (give or take a few percentage pts) of subs out there just want a receiver/DVR that does the basic stuff, and many of those subs don't even know what HD is let alone all those fancy smancie options. Are some of those features nice? Of course, but pretty unrealistic to the average sub.


hmm,
There are some forums, some that have Thousand of Votes and postings, that lead some to believe some of these features are wanted. Heck even TW cable, includes autotuners and reminders, on a basic box, doesn't even have to be a DVR. Most of those 97% users go to review sites, before they buy something, most default to CNET, all they need to do is gleam over the bad, and see all the missing features that get posted, rather they use them or not, will see them as missing.


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## scott72 (Feb 17, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> hmm,
> There are some forums, some that have Thousand of Votes and postings, that lead some to believe some of these features are wanted. Heck even TW cable, includes autotuners and reminders. Most of those 97% users go to review sites, before they buy something, most default to CNET, all they need to do is gleam over the bad, and see all the missing features that get posted, rather they use them or not, will see them as missing.


I know it seems there are a lot of "us", but I think we forget that we are actually a very small minority of subs out there looking for most of those features. Don't get me wrong as I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything like that. Hell I'd love a bunch of those features myself, but how many people have we run into who think they have an HD picture just because they have an HDTV and digital cable? This thinking is what may slow down the advancement of some of these ideas. All we can do is continue to educate and hope.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

After reading about, and then getting a full demo at the CES show on the Dish 922 prototype unit...my only concern with that design is that if one part of the technology fails, than the whole unit is out of commission.

The unit itself looked neat, but as a prototype unit, not only did they have to reboot it twice during the 15 minute demo, but about 1/2 the functions were "not yet activated" in the 922. 

It's the same issue as buying an HDTV with a Blu Ray player built in....if the Blu Ray fails, you have to send the HDTV to the shop as well.

...and if I've learned anything about complex technology over the years, it's that the more stuff you add to a device, the more can go wrong with it. :eek2:

My preference would still be to have a Sling unit and DVR as separate devices for this very reasons...but that's just my take on it.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

scott72 said:


> I know it seems there are a lot of "us", but I think we forget that we are actually a very small minority of subs out there looking for most of those features. Don't get me wrong as I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything like that. Hell I'd love a bunch of those features myself, but how many people have we run into who think they have an HD picture just because they have an HDTV and digital cable? This thinking is what may slow down the advancement of some of these ideas. All we can do is continue to educate and hope.


hehehehehe,
Amen.
I have a buddy, who just upgraded his TV, finally has HD. He has TWC, and called me down just after he got it installed, I walked in and he was BRAGGING about how nice his HDTV looked. I looked at it, and said that isn't HD, he got all mad, telling me he knows its NOT SAT, but it was HD. I laughed grabbed the remote, and changed it to the HD ESPN for the game. AS he had the SD channel on. He was like WOW, now that is better. TOO many people think once they have a HDTV, its magic and everthing is HD. Granted he is now looking at both Dish and Direct, told him to compare both, and move on from Cable already.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> My preference would still be to have a Sling unit and DVR as separate devices for this very reasons...but that's just my take on it.


Could be an option. If, as someone said over on the Dish forums, the 722k is using the same CPU as the 922, then there's a possibility it will be offered as a lowerer cost alternative to the 922. I.e., same 5 stream write capability and GUI, but no Sling capability.

I'd be surprised if they weren't thinking along those lines to simplify application development, similar to what DirecTV is doing. /steve


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## scott72 (Feb 17, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> After reading about, and then getting a full demo at the CES show on the Dish 922 prototype unit...my only concern with that design is that if one part of the technology fails, than the whole unit is out of commission.
> 
> The unit itself looked neat, but as a prototype unit, not only did they have to reboot it twice during the 15 minute demo, but about 1/2 the functions were "not yet activated" in the 922.
> 
> ...


+1


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Well I can tell you onething.
I am not about to go back to carrying seperate, Pager, Cellphone, mp3 player(or CD Player), PDA, and Radio, and have to have my Laptop on to get email's, or talk to people on YIM/AOL/whatever chat. Very nice to have it all in one NICE little bundle.
I guess you may want to keep your sat tuner seperate from you recording device. Just have a HR Reciever and hook it up to a nice and seperate vcr.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Well I can tell you onething.
> I am not about to go back to carrying seperate, Pager, Cellphone, mp3 player(or CD Player), PDA, and Radio, and have to have my Laptop on to get email's, or talk to people on YIM/AOL/whatever chat. Very nice to have it all in one NICE little bundle.


Yup...ya haven't lived until you've looked at the web on a 2" screen....:lol:

Convergence is dead...long live readable displays.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup...ya haven't lived until you've looked at the web on a 2" screen....:lol:
> 
> Convergence is dead...long live readable displays.


Who said anything about websurfing?:nono:

So instead of having to carry 7 devices, I will carry just ONE. No reason to carrying seperate, Pager, Cellphone, mp3 player(or CD Player), PDA, and Radio, and have to have my Laptop on to get email's, or talk to people on YIM/AOL/whatever chat. Very nice to have it all in one NICE little bundle.

Now you are still into convergence(Larry Niven short series?) as you want MRV this year, sharing content from HR to HR, rather its a master DVR to others or just between DVR's, between devices that can't be backed up. Anything happens to the receiver or the external HD, you lose everything. You don't want a device that could, and I repeat Could, work with your existing HR's for MRV, and beable to back up all recorded shows, if something happens, you can restore them afterwards. Your way isn't any safer, actually its even more unsafe, as all those recordings would be lost in a instant.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

If this unit were available through DirecTV, I would have one.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

GrumpyBear said:


> Yes, I did miss read your post, sorry about that.
> Not sure how the DRM Police, would feel about that all being run to a DVR, nor do I want to have to watch a DVD, just so somebody else could.
> I believe some use the OTA as a cable life line for locals, so you would be able to bring in Cable as one of the OTA tuners, and sling that out, and record it as well. I know not everybody is in the same boat, but I can't think of a single time I would need to sling a DVD feed, between inhouse DVD players, Xbox360's, Laptops, and even portable DVD players.


You are right, it's probably not widely needed. However, when Mr. DogLover was in India for 6 months, he had access to all the DVD's in the jukebox (approaching 400), as well as the DVR. It was a lifesaver...or at least a sanity saver.

That said, average use would just be to sling live or recorded TV from the DVR. Certainly a cool addition to a DVR.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DogLover said:


> You are right, it's probably not widely needed. However, when Mr. DogLover was in India for 6 months, he had access to all the DVD's in the jukebox (approaching 400), as well as the DVR. It was a lifesaver...or at least a sanity saver.
> 
> That said, average use would just be to sling live or recorded TV from the DVR. Certainly a cool addition to a DVR.


International travel, with electonic's is a REAL PAIN, nowadays. A trip like that would be rough as well, as there is no way to pack enough stuff, for that length. Very good idea.


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## ans2004 (Oct 28, 2008)

i'll wait for the tivo hd dvr this summer. i miss my old hr-250.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Who said anything about websurfing?:nono:
> 
> So instead of having to carry 7 devices, I will carry just ONE. No reason to carrying seperate, Pager, Cellphone, mp3 player(or CD Player), PDA, and Radio, and have to have my Laptop on to get email's, or talk to people on YIM/AOL/whatever chat. Very nice to have it all in one NICE little bundle.


I haven't seen a PDA/wireless phone combination yet that is practical in terms of readability, nor works as well as a dedicated quality wireles phone.

The new G1 comes close, but isn't quite there....

My point was that convergence is the direction manufacturers have been going for years...but after seeing my company abandon the whole Crackberry (with multiple similar devices) fad, in lieu of hundreds of complaints about bad phone reception and "too small" displays with convergent devices....not sure if the market will retain *longterm *acceptance of them...

As for an MP3 player...that can be done 100 other ways...but yes...that may have some practical application with a quality wireless phone (if there is enough memory to support it).

Getting back to the Dish 922 HD DVR I saw firsthand at CES....the menu speed was slower than the 622, and 2 reboots on the demo unit in 15 minutes both demonstrated that this is still very much a prototype and needs more work...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

RAD said:


> The only feature I'd be interested in is more concurrent recording, four streams is nice. What would really be nice is if D* came up with a DVR that could do three or four sat streams, prefer the MPEG4 recordings to help cut down on disk drive utilization plus better for streaming content on the home network.


I might like four streams as long as it's all compatible with SWM.

Mike


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

As far as this argument about the features only being understood by the few at this point, that is just how technology develops. How many people in the 80s knew what a cell phone was and wanted one in the 80s? How many people knew what a DVD was in the 90s and wanted a DVD player? Yet now, these technologies are everywhere. 

Early adopters get them. They show them to their tech savvy friends, who get them. They show it to their regular friends, who get it and show it to their tech impaired friends and so on. If people in the 80s and 90s adopted your attitude about only producing technology that the masses will immediately embrace and buy, we would not have cell phones, PCs, DVDs, DVRs, and HDTVs, just to name a few things. 

And yes, the 922 software needs work. That's why they call it a prototype. It's not even a beta version yet. All I care is how the initial release works.

Also, if you think all combined devices like the iPhone and other smartphones are failures and people don't use them, that tells me all I need to know about how you evaluate technology, hdtvfan.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

HDRoberts said:


> Also, if you think all combined devices like the iPhone and other smartphones are failures and people don't use them, that tells me all I need to know about how you evaluate technology, hdtvfan.


It's based on hundreds of human beings I know using it. 

That feedback (along with many articles read on the same topic) indicates there is strong enough resistence to the small displays and limited memory functionality in today's "everything in a small box" technology.


> And yes, the 922 software needs work. That's why they call it a prototype. It's not even a beta version yet. All I care is how the initial release works.


Makes sense...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I might like four streams as long as it's all compatible with SWM.


Ya. Not even E* is offering 4 SAT streams.

For those with OTA capability, I wonder if DirecTV could somehow re-jigger the HR2x software so it can capture 2 SAT and 1-2 OTA streams simultaneously, with no new hardware required?

Does anyone know of any HR20 or HR2x/AM21 hardware limitations that might make this idea impracticable?

Just throwin' it out there.  /steve


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

ans2004 said:


> i'll wait for the tivo hd dvr this summer. i miss my old hr-250.


I think I'm with ya on that one. I'll have to have one of thoses DIRECTV Tivo units too.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

HDRoberts said:


> As far as this argument about the features only being understood by the few at this point, that is just how technology develops. How many people in the 80s knew what a cell phone was and wanted one in the 80s? How many people knew what a DVD was in the 90s and wanted a DVD player? Yet now, these technologies are everywhere.
> 
> Early adopters get them. They show them to their tech savvy friends, who get them. They show it to their regular friends, who get it and show it to their tech impaired friends and so on. If people in the 80s and 90s adopted your attitude about only producing technology that the masses will immediately embrace and buy, we would not have cell phones, PCs, DVDs, DVRs, and HDTVs, just to name a few things.
> 
> ...


I second all of this. Smartphones have come a long way in the last 3 or 4 years. I put these devices in the hands of people all the time, and it's great to see their eyes light up when they realize how damned amazing the iPhone is as a business and as a convergence device.

I've moved us from Windows Mobile and Blackberry to the iPhone and have received tons of praise and zero complaints. It was a good career move.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

CorpITGuy said:


> I second all of this. Smartphones have come a long way in the last 3 or 4 years. I put these devices in the hands of people all the time, and it's great to see their eyes light up when they realize how damned amazing the iPhone is as a business and as a convergence device.
> 
> I've moved us from Windows Mobile and Blackberry to the iPhone and have received tons of praise and zero complaints. It was a good career move.


I know Sales Reps can handle Blackberry's/Palm/Windows CE, phones, and if you can teach a Sales Rep to do it, anybody can use them.:lol:


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's based on hundreds of human beings I know using it.
> 
> That feedback (along with many articles read on the same topic) indicates there is strong enough resistence to the small displays and limited memory functionality in today's "everything in a small box" technology.


Everyone I know who has a smartphone loves it. I myself will be picking up an iPhone when my Sprint contract runs out in Feb. Yeah, it's a small screen. But I don't think a much larger screen could fit in my pocket, which is why most people want a smartphone: to be able to do simple computer tasks with something portable enough to unobtrusively fit in a pocket.

Seems like the Sony Viao Lifestyle PC was another example of features headed to a small box, and it was rather well received at CES.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10138250-100.html


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I haven't seen a PDA/wireless phone combination yet that is practical in terms of readability, nor works as well as a dedicated quality wireles phone.
> 
> The new G1 comes close, but isn't quite there....
> 
> ...


Well, if your company dropped, I can understand why you may think that way.
On the other hand, my company gives people a Blackberry, in the morning, and laptop in the afternoon, on 1st day of work. There is just no way in today's market that any of us could just use a laptop. To much time on the road, in meetings and just plain ol Traveling. Our competition is the same way, very large field forces and Laptops only for business just wouldn't work, for us nor the competition. I guess Sharp would be the smallest in competition and even they do over 700million in sales yearly(has nothing to do with TV's), top 3 in our business do over 3 billion in sales each, and Blackberry type phones are corporation wide. Heck they even interface with Lotus Notes sysytems nowaday's(side not complaint, as it forces me to support Notes systems) I would love to see your sales numbers and declines of the Smartphone fad.

922 is still very very very prototype, and like all prototype's at cutting edge tradeshows its supposed to get the idea's flowing on the possiblities. Not that worried about its performance at the show, it will matter once they start delivery of the little buggers.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Well, if your company dropped, I can understand why you may think that way.


They also distrupted too many meetings and other activities...but that's another story for another time.


> 922 is still very very very prototype, and like all prototype's at cutting edge tradeshows its supposed to get the idea's flowing on the possiblities. Not that worried about its performance at the show, it will matter once they start delivery of the little buggers.


I would not expect to see the 922 "little buggers"  until perhaps 3Q 2009, or so the demo dude in the Dish booth said...and he admitted he was "only guessing".

By then...who knows what DirecTV will have in their stable of HD DVRs...


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> 3Q 2009,


That sounds realistic, hoping early 3Q myself. I have plans for it, well 2 of them that is.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> That sounds realistic, hoping early 3Q myself. I have plans for it, well 2 of them that is.


As for the original question....I suspect DirecTV users would welcome a similar version with similar features.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> They also distrupted too many meetings and other activities...but that's another story for another time.
> 
> I would not expect to see the 922 "little buggers"  until perhaps 3Q 2009, or so the demo dude in the Dish booth said...and he admitted he was "only guessing".
> 
> By then...who knows what DirecTV will have in their stable of HD DVRs...


Do you think that DirecTV can deliver a major new product in 2009 that hasn't already been announced at CES? Have they done that in the past? (I'm not talking about incremental upgrades, like the HR22 or HR23.)

Not a rhetorical question, BTW, I'm genuinely curious to know if that's ever happened. Will give me something to look forward to in 2009.  /steve


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Steve said:


> Do you think that DirecTV can deliver a major new product in 2009 that hasn't already been announced at CES? Have they done that in the past? (I'm not talking about incremental upgrades, like the HR22 or HR23.)
> 
> Not a rhetorical question, BTW, I'm genuinely curious to know if that's ever happened. Will give me something to look forward to in 2009.  /steve


Great question...

I defer to those who might have the detailed knowledge regarding the time-based history for previous equipment releases...


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Since DirecTV announced a clamp down on spending I don't think we'll be seeing any major new hardware this year. That is unless they start loosing a ton of customers and it's because of the 922.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Steve said:


> Do you think that DirecTV can deliver a major new product in 2009 that hasn't already been announced at CES? Have they done that in the past? (I'm not talking about incremental upgrades, like the HR22 or HR23.)
> 
> Not a rhetorical question, BTW, I'm genuinely curious to know if that's ever happened. Will give me something to look forward to in 2009.  /steve


Steve,
That was a great link you posted about the new Broadcom Chip's.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

I know many have said it won't happen, but it sure would be nice if they would offer the TiVO upgrade as a software upgrade to the HR-series. That would help with the money issue.

Probably won't happen, though.


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

RAD said:


> Since DirecTV announced a clamp down on spending I don't think we'll be seeing any major new hardware this year. That is unless they start loosing a ton of customers and it's because of the 922.


This is my thought as well. I don't get where everyone gets that DirecTV will come out with a product to trump the 922. 

I bet anything when the 922 rolls out, the most advanced DirecTV HD DVR will still be called the HR23. Maybe they will have an HR24 with the same HRx features, but another hard drive upgrade. But that is all.

If they start losing customers to the 922, the best solution might just be to start buying them for use by DirecTV.


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## ImBack234 (Aug 26, 2008)

HDRoberts said:


> If they start losing customers to the 922, the best solution might just be to start buying them for use by DirecTV.


LOL. 
That I would like to see, that's why I say it will never happen.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

HDRoberts said:


> This is my thought as well. I don't get where everyone gets that DirecTV will come out with a product to trump the 922.
> 
> I bet anything when the 922 rolls out, the most advanced DirecTV HD DVR will still be called the HR23. Maybe they will have an HR24 with the same HRx features, but another hard drive upgrade. But that is all.
> 
> If they start losing customers to the 922, the best solution might just be to start buying them for use by DirecTV.


IMHO there's nothing wrong with D*'s most adanced box being the HR23 (which has all the same functionality as the original HR20). Many folks might just be happy with what the HR's can do, some of the things the 922 might not be able to do.

Plus a lot of it will depend on how well E* executes bringing this box to market. If it turns out to be another 811/921 experience (the 811 was what caused be to switch back do D*) it might cause people to leave E* due to hardware problems.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

ans2004 said:


> i'll wait for the tivo hd dvr this summer. i miss my old hr-250.


You're going to be waiting a while then. It was never planned for the summer. Last half of 2009 was what was announced. Tivo recently said it was "hoping" now for 2010 and at CES they won't even talk about it. Methinks mid 2010 at the earliest (which is what most of us were thinking anyway) assuming it doesn't get canceled or further delayed by then.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> the 811 was what caused be to switch back do D*) it might cause people to leave E* due to hardware problems.


I am so glad I only had my 811 for a single week. I ordered mine Week after Xmas, in 05, fought tooth and nail to get it, as it just wouldn't arrive. New HDTV, Seahawks were on a roll, and CSR's were Pissing me off. Found this site Feb/06 after fighting a Month of Fighting, to get the 811, had no idea it was about to be phased out, Called back really mad, but didn't yell and scream, got ahold of a Supervisor, explained all the phone calls, what was going on, and he hooked me up with a replacement 211 instead. Watched the Superbowl in HD on the 811, following tuesday sent it back, as the 211 had arrived. Its also when I 1st started looking at Direct too.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> You're going to be waiting a while then. It was never planned for the summer. Last half of 2009 was what was announced. Tivo recently said it was "hoping" now for 2010 and at CES they won't even talk about it. Methinks mid 2010 at the earliest (which is what most of us were thinking anyway) assuming it doesn't get canceled or further delayed by then.


Think maybe CES 2010.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> You're going to be waiting a while then. It was never planned for the summer. Last half of 2009 was what was announced. Tivo recently said it was "hoping" now for 2010 and at CES they won't even talk about it. Methinks mid 2010 at the earliest (which is what most of us were thinking anyway) assuming it doesn't get canceled or further delayed by then.


I'm frankly amazed TiVo didn't just update the existing HR10 motherboard design with the new Broadcomm MPEG-4 chips and quickly deliver an HR10 "v.2" box, running the same 6.x software the current HR10 uses. All kidding aside, without the DirecTV subscriber revenue, TiVo might have a hard time staying in business through 2010.

Or maybe I'm being naive in thinking that a revised motherboard can be turned-around that quickly? /steve


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> This is my thought as well. I don't get where everyone gets that DirecTV will come out with a product to trump the 922.
> 
> I bet anything when the 922 rolls out, the most advanced DirecTV HD DVR will still be called the HR23. Maybe they will have an HR24 with the same HRx features, but another hard drive upgrade. But that is all.
> 
> If they start losing customers to the 922, the best solution might just be to start buying them for use by DirecTV.


You don't know what DirecTV HDDVRs will have by then.

The 922 will have to go against DirecTV's HRxxs and the new HD DirecTivo.

I don't know why but to me all of Echostar's products look cheap compared to DirecTV's.Think that might be Charlie's fault.But the main reason for DirecTV's success?.DirecTV has the programming that others don't.:sure:


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> You don't know what DirecTV HDDVRs will have by *[the time the 922 rolls out]*. [...]


That was the gist of my question a few posts back, since DirecTV really made no major announcements this CES. /steve


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Steve said:


> Or maybe I'm being naive in thinking that a revised motherboard can be turned-around that quickly? /steve


I think so. The HR10 motherboard is at least 3 generations ago in terms of design and speed. It's what, 6 years old now? I would think DirecTV would nix that idea pretty quick. Need modern components and it should have faster and better components then the current HR2x hardware since it would be the "next gen" in a way.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Steve said:


> I'm frankly amazed TiVo didn't just update the existing HR10 motherboard design with the new Broadcomm MPEG-4 chips and quickly deliver an HR10 "v.2" box, running the same 6.x software the current HR10 uses. All kidding aside, without the DirecTV subscriber revenue, TiVo might have a hard time staying in business through 2010.
> 
> Or maybe I'm being naive in thinking that a revised motherboard can be turned-around that quickly? /steve


Think it's more than that.DirecTV still has DirecTivos in the field(I have one) plus with DirecTV's and Tivo's contract being extended to 2015 with an option to 2018 don't think Tivo is as bad off as some believe.:sure:


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Steve said:


> That was the gist of my question a few posts back, since DirecTV really made no major announcements this CES. /steve


Like my post before my guess is CES 2010.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I think so. The HR10 motherboard is at least 3 generations ago in terms of design and speed. It's what, 6 years old now? I would think DirecTV would nix that idea pretty quick. Need modern components and it should have faster and better components then the current HR2x hardware since it would be the "next gen" in a way.


But to be honest, it's not a bad design. Even the old HR10 seems as fast as the HR2x for what it does. Record two programs and allow simultaneouls playback. Search 12 days of GUIDE data. Re-prioritize 50 season's passes. The HR2x is no faster in practice at doing the same things.

Imagine what that same box would do with no changes except a newer, faster broadcomm CPU and more memory? I know nothing about h/w design. Just speculating.  /steve


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Like my post before my guess is CES 2010.


Ahhh. I thought you were speculating what DirecTV might have when the 922 rolls out this year, or are you saying you don't think that will happen? /steve


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Steve said:


> Ahhh. I thought you were speculating what DirecTV might have when the 922 rolls out this year, or are you saying you don't think that will happen? /steve


Only the DirecTV engineers know for sure.:sure:

And maybe a few mods?.:yesman:


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

Ahhh, speculation. That's all any of us are doing. We can try to make educated guesses, but if D* wants to fool everyone, they certainly have the resources to do it. TiVO REALLY has the resources.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

CorpITGuy said:


> TiVO REALLY has the resources.


And, IMHO, the motivation... survival! :lol: /steve


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Jhon69 said:


> Only the DirecTV engineers know for sure.:sure:
> 
> And maybe a few mods?.:yesman:


And if they aren't showing the HD DirecTivo at CES 2010 then I think it will probably go the way of so much vaporware.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Jhon69 said:


> Think it's more than that.DirecTV still has DirecTivos in the field(I have one) plus with DirecTV's and Tivo's contract being extended to 2015 with an option to 2018 don't think Tivo is as bad off as some believe.:sure:


True but that number drops by 150K a quarter (or maybe more now, I didn't see the latest quarterly numbers). Pretty soon there won't be many left at all, just by attrition. I myself just deactivated my last SD DirecTivo a couple days ago so I'll count as a lost Tivo sub on this quarter's Tivo sub numbers. First time in almost 9 years I haven't had a Tivo in active use, although this one hasn't been used much at all the past year or so, I wanted to save the 5 bucks a month.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Since plans for hardware releases are done well in advance...I suspect that what we may see in 2009 has already been on the radar for some time. 

It may be affected or adjusted based on market conditions, but I would assume that their general execution and release will not necessarily be canned altogether. We'll likely know by some time in the late 1Q or so...


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> True but that number drops by 150K a quarter (or maybe more now, I didn't see the latest quarterly numbers). Pretty soon there won't be many left at all, just by attrition. I myself just deactivated my last SD DirecTivo a couple days ago so I'll count as a lost Tivo sub on this quarter's Tivo sub numbers. First time in almost 9 years I haven't had a Tivo in active use, although this one hasn't been used much at all the past year or so, I wanted to save the 5 bucks a month.


I agree.Hopefully Tivo won't screw this up because I believe for DirecTV to offer a choice between DVRs is a good thing.:grin:

Now to get back on topic: the question asked by the OP is an interesting one,but it should be asked of DirecTV by Echostar.Never know DirecTV might want to offer 3 different DVRs.:nono2:


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> You don't know what DirecTV HDDVRs will have by then.
> 
> The 922 will have to go against DirecTV's HRxxs and the new HD DirecTivo.
> 
> I don't know why but to me all of Echostar's products look cheap compared to DirecTV's.Think that might be Charlie's fault.But the main reason for DirecTV's success?.DirecTV has the programming that others don't.:sure:


Again, what evidence is there a new HR series is coming? Heck, we have heard nothing about the HD DirecTivo since it was announced. However, there has been 922 rumors for a year or more (previously called the 722s).

And I don't care much how the receiver looks. All I care is what is under the hood. You can keep the fancy electric blue LED circle-thing. I'll take the 922.

As for programming, the original topic was the 922 on the DirecTV system. Not a topic for this conversation. But as soon as Dish adds Viacom and Fox, DirecTV's advantages will be negated.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

Dish has always been miles ahead in the DVR hardware dept.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

man_rob said:


> Dish has always been miles ahead in the DVR hardware dept.


Always is an awful long time. I'd be willing to put the DirecTV SD-DVR40 against the Dish 501/508/510 anytime, which were the two DVR's that both companies were selling at the time. Heck, it was only fairly recently that those E* boxes finally got NBR after years of promises from E* to add it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

RAD said:


> Always is an awful long time. I'd be willing to put the DirecTV SD-DVR40 against the Dish 501/508/510 anytime, which were the two DVR's that both companies were selling at the time. Heck, it was only fairly recently that those E* boxes finally got NBR after years of promises from E* to add it.


Agreed. That kind of overall comparison tends to be in the eyes of the beholder anyways.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> Again, what evidence is there a new HR series is coming? Heck, we have heard nothing about the HD DirecTivo since it was announced. However, there has been 922 rumors for a year or more (previously called the 722s).
> 
> And I don't care much how the receiver looks. All I care is what is under the hood. You can keep the fancy electric blue LED circle-thing. I'll take the 922.
> 
> As for programming, the original topic was the 922 on the DirecTV system. Not a topic for this conversation. But as soon as Dish adds Viacom and Fox, DirecTV's advantages will be negated.


There is nothing announced except the new HD DirecTivo in the 2H of 2009 and that is just because that's the way DirecTV wants it.They don't always announce what their working on especially with the DVR+.:sure:

And yes I love my light circle.:love1:


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

man_rob said:


> Dish has always been miles ahead in the DVR hardware dept.


I'm sure that's what Dish subscribers thought with Dish's 921 and DirecTV subscribers had their first HD DirecTivo.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> Always is an awful long time. I'd be willing to put the DirecTV SD-DVR40 against the Dish 501/508/510 anytime, which were the two DVR's that both companies were selling at the time. Heck, it was only fairly recently that those E* boxes finally got NBR after years of promises from E* to add it.


I will take you word for it. Just seems like Dish hardware, hasn't removed features, and has been adding and enhancing the ones they do have. This thread will take a VERY nasty turn, like it almost did with Dodge Boy's post yesterday. So heating up the ViP vs HR war wont do any good. Even the 922 isn't saying "when" the Network connectivity and sharing of Content is going to happen, just like MRV has been out there in Vapor land for HR for going on 2 years now.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

Let's say for a minute that the new Directivo is able to do everything that the 922 can do in theory. I do think that the 922 will be released before the Directivo. The 922 prototype was obviously buggy at this moment as shown at CES but, they should be able work them out fairly easily. Basically a 922 is a 722 with sling under the hood too. The 722 is already a rock solid piece of hardware and, so is the standalone sling. Echostar owns both peices, they should be able to intergrate them easier than any other company in the world. If tivo wants to intergrate a sling type of device into a DVR they would either have to invent some technology from the ground up or, purchase it from somebody else. Given the court case that has been going on for years I think it is alot less likely that TIVO would buy sling technology from Echostar than develope themselves or purchase from somebody else. But, who else is there? I am sure that there is somebody else building something like sling but, I don't know who it is as I am not very versed in this technology. But, for arguements sake lets say TIVO builds it and, it works just as good as the 922. TIVO has already said that whatever they decide to release to Directv, it is going to be a PREMIUM service. Premium mean more expensive. My wild guess is at least $9.99 a month per box DVR fee. Now, I have no inside info to base this number on but, I think we can all agree that whatever the number is, it is not going to be $5 a month per account. I do not think the monthly fee for a 922 is going to anymore than the rest of the Dish Network DVR's. Again, I have nothing to base this on but, sling does not currently charge a monthly fee for their services so, if they charge for the same device just because it is intergrated it will not catch on. In the end if this type of intergrated device catches on I do think it is conceiveble that Directv might decide to go with a proven device instead of letting TIVO throw paint at the wall and see what dries. I do think a HD Directivo is on its way but, I don't think it is going to be a sling type intergrated device. And, by the time it comes out I think the difference between it and the HR series will be so nil that the TIVO unit buyers will basically be paying for the name.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> I will take you word for it. Just seems like Dish hardware, hasn't removed features, and has been adding and enhancing the ones they do have. This thread will take a VERY nasty turn, like it almost did with Dodge Boy's post yesterday. So heating up the ViP vs HR war wont do any good. Even the 922 isn't saying "when" the Network connectivity and sharing of Content is going to happen, just like MRV has been out there in Vapor land for HR for going on 2 years now.


One of the biggest misconception is that DirecTV removed features.The HD DirecTivo was a platform designed by Tivo for DirecTV.The DVR+ is a completely different platform and DirecTV's first in house HDDVR.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Since they did not have a working 922 at CES, there is only a slim chance that a 922 will be available this year.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Curtis0620 said:


> Since they did not have a working 922 at CES, there is only a slim chance that a 922 will be available this year.


It was *working* there...albeit as a prototype with hiccups (to be expected)...

As for the timing for release...they wouldn't day in their booth.

Still an interesting piece of hardware, with potential features that would be desirable in the DirecTv world too...which I recall...is what this thread kinda started out as....


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Jhon69 said:


> One of the biggest misconception is that DirecTV removed features.The HD DirecTivo was a platform designed by Tivo for DirecTV.The DVR+ is a completely different platform and DirecTV's first in house HDDVR.


I don't think it is a misconception, as they have removed features as they build new units. We no longer have OTA tuners in the units, the non DVR receivers no longer control VCRs (my HTL-HD had it), we no longer get remotes that light up (my HTL-HD had it), and I am sure there are others that I am missing.

But, on the other hand, they have added and are developing a lot of nice features.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It was *working* there...albeit as a prototype with hiccups (to be expected)...
> 
> As for the timing for release...they wouldn't day in their booth.
> 
> Still an interesting piece of hardware, with potential features that would be desirable in the DirecTv world too...which I recall...is what this thread kinda started out as....


Yes and I plan to start one in the Dish Forum as soon as the new HD DirecTivo comes out.:sure:


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Yes and I plan to start one in the Dish Forum as soon as the new HD DirecTivo comes out.:sure:


Well there is a difference. EchoStar has said they plan on selling the ViP922, to Cable, telco's, and even Direct. Direct hasn't said anything about selling the HD DirectTivo, to Cable, Telco's, and Dish.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

GrumpyBear said:


> Well there is a difference. EchoStar has said they plan on selling the ViP922, to Cable, telco's, and even Direct. Direct hasn't said anything about selling the HD DirectTivo, to Cable, Telco's, and Dish.


Why would DirecTV need to do that? Tivo already has a HD DVR that they sell to end users and is already working with some cable companies for HD DVR's with Tivo code on it.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

RAD said:


> Why would DirecTV need to do that? Tivo already has a HD DVR that they sell to end users and is already working with some cable companies for HD DVR's with Tivo code on it.


I was responding to Jhon69's comment about starting a thread in the Dish forum, once the HD DirectTivo is released. The OP, started this, and it keeps being missed, "IF" Echostar sells this to Direct Users, would Direct users want it. Not asking people to jump ship, just would they be interested in a ViP DVR that would work with there current service, with all its features. Not just for Sling(Granted on of the Key Features), but 5(2 being OTA, 1 Internet) Tuners, DLB, Autotune, Record from this point forward, CIG, New Guide, and a few more features, and still use Direct Programming.


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> There is nothing announced except the new HD DirecTivo in the 2H of 2009 and that is just because that's the way DirecTV wants it.They don't always announce what their working on especially with the DVR+.:sure:
> 
> And yes I love my light circle.:love1:


No, but they DID announce they were killing all capital projects. Things that make you go hmmmm...

And, yes, Dish used to have the lower end technology compared to DirecTV. But not for the past 3 years or so.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> I was responding to Jhon69's comment about starting a thread in the Dish forum, once the HD DirectTivo is released. The OP, started this, and it keeps being missed, "IF" Echostar sells this to Direct Users, would Direct users want it. Not asking people to jump ship, just would they be interested in a ViP DVR that would work with there current service, with all its features. Not just for Sling(Granted on of the Key Features), but 5(2 being OTA, 1 Internet) Tuners, DLB, Autotune, Record from this point forward, CIG, New Guide, and a few more features, and still use Direct Programming.


I guess you missed my "wink" and "big grin" which to me means I'm kidding.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> I guess you missed my "wink" and "big grin" which to me means I'm kidding.


I should never post when arguing with my Sales People. Sometimes you miss those things, sorry about that.
No matter how many times you tell them you can not put a 6" round pipe in a 2" square hole, I am going to......... and then ...........

So sorry for missing your jest.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> No, but they DID announce they were killing all capital projects. Things that make you go hmmmm...
> 
> And, yes, Dish used to have the lower end technology compared to DirecTV. But not for the past 3 years or so.


So you would tend to believe that DirecTV would sign a new capital project with Echostar?

One of the reasons given for DirecTV resigning with Tivo was to avoid a lawsuit,you know like someone else you know has against them.

Don't get me wrong a 922 could be in DirecTV's future if Charlie has the stocks to swap John Malone(it's happened before).:sure:


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

GrumpyBear said:


> I should never post when arguing with my Sales People. Sometimes you miss those things, sorry about that.
> No matter how many times you tell them you can not put a 6" round pipe in a 2" square hole, I am going to......... and then ...........
> 
> So sorry for missing your jest.


Then you bend them over and show them!.:eek2:

No problem.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

man_rob said:


> Dish has always been miles ahead in the DVR hardware dept.


*cough* dishplayer *cough*

:lol:


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> So you would tend to believe that DirecTV would sign a new capital project with Echostar?
> 
> One of the reasons given for DirecTV resigning with Tivo was to avoid a lawsuit,you know like someone else you know has against them.
> 
> Don't get me wrong a 922 could be in DirecTV's future if Charlie has the stocks to swap John Malone(it's happened before).:sure:


It's not a capital project if you don't have to make any initial investment. All they would do is buy boxes from Echostar.

And no VIP receiver is covered my any Tivo lawsuit. 622, 722, 612, 211 DVR conversion, 722k, and of course, the 922 are free and clear thus far.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

man_rob said:


> Dish has always been miles ahead in the DVR hardware dept.


guess you don't remember the orginal dishplayer/webtv


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Christopher Gould said:


> guess you don't remember the orginal dishplayer/webtv


Oh that one was horrible. I remember arguing with Father-in-Law, begging him NOT to buy it. It was too good of a deal, from Costco he said. Man it SUCKED big time.


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## man_rob (Feb 21, 2007)

Okay, then I'll rephrase. Dish came from behind, and for the last several years, their DVR technology has been miles ahead of DirecTV. That's not to say that DirecTV's DVR offering aren't adequate, they just don't go that extra mile.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> It's not a capital project if you don't have to make any initial investment. All they would do is buy boxes from Echostar.
> 
> And no VIP receiver is covered my any Tivo lawsuit. 622, 722, 612, 211 DVR conversion, 722k, and of course, the 922 are free and clear thus far.


You said it best in your last sentence.The Vip's are not covered in any Tivo lawsuit so far.Until that Tivo vs Dish lawsuit is done no one knows for sure what the outcome of that will be and which DVRs will be affected and which features would have to be changed or not.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

man_rob said:


> Okay, then I'll rephrase. Dish came from behind, and for the last several years, their DVR technology has been miles ahead of DirecTV. That's not to say that DirecTV's DVR offering aren't adequate, they just don't go that extra mile.


Correct.But Dish has been making their own in house DVR longer too compared to DirecTV's in house DVRs.Given the same amount of time I expect DirecTV's DVR+s to improve dramatically especially with DirecTV's DVR enhancement program.:sure:


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> You said it best in your last sentence.The Vip's are not covered in any Tivo lawsuit so far.Until that Tivo vs Dish lawsuit is done no one knows for sure what the outcome of that will be and which DVRs will be affected and which features would have to be changed or not.


From good sources I have heard that new Dish software does not violate the patent. Tivo essentially told them what they would have to do to get around the patent (which they thought was not possible with existing hardware), and Dish did it. Tivo has now had years to sue over the 622, yet hasn't.

In fact, the patent and trademark office has agreed to review the Tivo patent in light of 2 other patents Dish has found, which essentially do the same thing as Tivo, making Tivo's claims obvious and un-patentable. But that is an issue to the PTO to decide.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Correct.But Dish has been making their own in house DVR longer too compared to DirecTV's in house DVRs.Given the same amount of time I expect DirecTV's DVR+s to improve dramatically especially with DirecTV's DVR enhancement program.:sure:


If you're right, that means at the current development pace, DirecTV might catch up in another 4-5 years, assuming Dish doesn't continue to set the bar higher. I say this because they apparently brought a lot of technical expertise in-house with the Slingmedia acquisition.

Given the economy and the fact that DirecTV's development resources are probably limited, if I were in charge over there, I'd spend less development cycles on features that folks are not clamoring for, like ACTIVE channel features, Widgets and DirectTV2PC (as currently conceived and implemented), and more time perfecting features that folks really want, like MRV and media sharing, which a year after introduction is still an alpha product, IMHO.

The other area where DirecTV has the capability to be the category leader, IMHO, but apparently aren't devoting a lot of resources to, is SEARCH and scheduling. TiVo is now beta-testing their new SEARCH, and Dish showed what appeared to be an enhanced SEARCH screen in one of the 922 slides.

Just my .02. /steve


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

HDRoberts said:


> From good sources I have heard that new Dish software does not violate the patent. Tivo essentially told them what they would have to do to get around the patent (which they thought was not possible with existing hardware), and Dish did it. Tivo has now had years to sue over the 622, yet hasn't.
> 
> In fact, the patent and trademark office has agreed to review the Tivo patent in light of 2 other patents Dish has found, which essentially do the same thing as Tivo, making Tivo's claims obvious and un-patentable. But that is an issue to the PTO to decide.


Correct.Which is basically what I said.It ain't over till it's over.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Steve said:


> If you're right, that means at the current development pace, DirecTV might catch up in another 4-5 years, assuming Dish doesn't continue to set the bar higher. I say this because they apparently brought a lot of technical expertise in-house with the Slingmedia acquisition.
> 
> Given the economy and the fact that DirecTV's development resources are probably limited, if I were in charge over there, I'd spend less development cycles on features that folks are not clamoring for, like ACTIVE channel features, Widgets and DirectTV2PC (as currently conceived and implemented), and more time perfecting features that folks really want, like MRV and media sharing, which a year after introduction is still an alpha product, IMHO.
> 
> ...


I expect DirecTV's DVR enhancement program to move at a quicker pace.This is the first time I have witnessed such a program and it is impressive to say the least and with the new HD DirecTivo coming it will give DirecTV subscriber's a choice and choice is always a good thing.I don't know of another company that has done or is doing what DirecTV is doing.And that is why DirecTV to me is the best provider with the best product.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> I expect DirecTV's DVR enhancement program to move at a quicker pace.This is the first time I have witnessed such a program and it is impressive to say the least and with the new HD DirecTivo coming it will give DirecTV subscriber's a choice and choice is always a good thing.I don't know of another company that has done or is doing what DirecTV is doing.And that is why DirecTV to me is the best provider with the best product.


Believe me, no one wants DirecTV to succeed more than me. I've been a customer since the introduction of the Sat-60 and I currently use 7 of their boxes, 6 of them DVR's and 4 of them networked. The truth of the matter, though, is very often over the past year and half, progress has resulted in one step forward and a step and a half back. Just my .02.

Hopefully this won't continue to be the case in 2009. /steve


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Well to get back on topic.:backtotop

I see on the back of the 922 it says 120 watts?.Is that excessive?,I thought 70 watts on my R22-100 was bad.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

It also seemed a bit heavy (big power supply?) when the demo dude moved it at the CES for me...they had 2 of them stacked so you could see the front and back....here's my photo...

(At 120 watts....we know is certainly not a "green" device" )

Perhaps its also doubling as a space heater?

I suspect if DirecTV was interested in replicating something like this...via some form of licensing arrangement...it would likely *not* be all that different.

Personally, I'm guessing you won't see the 922 until later in 2009, and probably never at DirecTV.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It also seemed a bit heavy (big power supply?) when the demo dude moved it at the CES for me...they had 2 of them stacked so you could see the front and back....here's my photo...
> 
> (At 120 watts....we know is certainly not a "green" device" )
> 
> ...


What is the 4th RF connector on the right for (back view Yellow in color)? Is that an RF out for the second receiver?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

loudo said:


> What is the 4th RF connector on the right for (back view Yellow in color)? Is that an RF out for the second receiver?


Only thing we no for sure about that connector, will send a single out to a 2nd TV just like the 622/722 can do. SD or HD who knows? Its SD on the 622/722. 922 still has the Single Pip mode, or Dual mode.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Only thing we no for sure about that connector, will send a single out to a 2nd TV just like the 622/722 can do. SD or HD who knows? Its SD on the 622/722. 922 still has the Single Pip mode, or Dual mode.


If you double-click to magnify the photo in your browser...and read the text at the connector....you might just have your answer...


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It also seemed a bit heavy (big power supply?) when the demo dude moved it at the CES for me...they had 2 of them stacked so you could see the front and back....here's my photo...
> 
> (At 120 watts....we know is certainly not a "green" device" )
> 
> Perhaps its also doubling as a space heater?


It's going to sit on a shelf. What do I care how heavy it is? I didn't know lifting it was a requirement for watching TV.

And how much power does an HR23 use? Also, don't forget in a set up like mine, it takes the place of a second SD DVR receiver.

I expect to see it early fall 2009. A heck of a lot sooner than I expect to see a similar DirecTV device. 

And, yes, the yellow RF port is for TV2. Also notice the plate with 2 screws to the left. That is were the dual ATSC tuner would go, enabling the recording of 2 HD OTA streams and 2 HD satellite streams, all while HD VOD is downloading on the internet.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

HDRoberts said:


> It's going to sit on a shelf. What do I care how heavy it is? I didn't know lifting it was a requirement for watching TV.


It has nothing to do with that....the weight issue was in response to the question about the power it uses (and corresponding power supply)... 


> And how much power does an HR23 use?


70 watts. 

Besides...that's an apples to refrigerator comparison.


> I expect to see it early fall 2009. A heck of a lot sooner than I expect to see a similar DirecTV device.


Assuming everyone wants such a device....


> And, yes, the yellow RF port is for TV2. Also notice the plate with 2 screws to the left. That is were the dual ATSC tuner would go, enabling the recording of 2 HD OTA streams and 2 HD satellite streams, all while HD VOD is downloading on the internet.


Whether or not it's ever activated or supported, of course, another story....

Remember...its a prototype...


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## HDRoberts (Dec 11, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> 70 watts.
> 
> Besides...that's an apples to refrigerator comparison.


Ohhh. 50 watts. Big deal. Besides, it's a power saver for me. I'd need a HR23 and an R22 or similar SD DVR to replace it. 120 watts v 140 watts.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Whether or not it's ever activated or supported, of course, another story....
> 
> Remember...its a prototype...


722k with the same OTA module will be able to do 2 OTA and 2 sat streams, and that will be here in a month or two. My 622 already can do 2 sat streams and 1 OTA at the same time. Yeah, we'll have to wait and see about the broadband. But still better than any receiver with the AM21, which can only do 2 total streams.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If you double-click to magnify the photo in your browser...and read the text at the connector....you might just have your answer...


OK, didn't realize the double click thing. :computer:


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

HDRoberts said:


> And, yes, the yellow RF port is for TV2. Also notice the plate with 2 screws to the left. That is were the dual ATSC tuner would go, enabling the recording of 2 HD OTA streams.


Would love to see that on a receiver with DirecTV's name on it.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If you double-click to magnify the photo in your browser...and read the text at the connector....you might just have your answer...


loudo
Asked the question not me.
I just told him what it was.


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## CorpITGuy (Apr 12, 2007)

If the 922 is anything like everything else E* has done as of late, it'll take 2 years, evaporate for a few months and then suddenly appear as a final product at CES 2012. 

I am, of course, joking. But, all of these companies take a long time to bring a product to market. It sucks, but that's the way business is run. We'd take 30 years to build Hoover Dam if we started it in 2009.

It'd be great if DirecTV surprised us with a DirecTiVO in 2009 or early 2010, but I don't see it happening.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It also seemed a bit heavy (big power supply?) when the demo dude moved it at the CES for me...they had 2 of them stacked so you could see the front and back....here's my photo...
> 
> (At 120 watts....we know is certainly not a "green" device" )
> 
> ...


The thing looks bulky and ugly. Then again, I can care less about the looks (although many others might)...I only care about the functions and features.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> loudo
> Asked the question not me.
> I just told him what it was.


Mucho Gracias...


DodgerKing said:


> The thing looks bulky and ugly. Then again, I can care less about the looks (although many others might)...I only care about the functions and features.


Keep in mind it was 2 units stacked back to front.

They were a bit larger than the current DirecTv stable of HD DVRs...but then...they also contain the Slingbox stuff, so no surprise.

When the demo dude moved it, and actually asked me to help him (just to make sure he didn't drop it)....yes it was certainly heavier than HD DVRs I'm used to handling.

In the end...you are right...it's the capabilities and features that matter most...and to that point...I will *again* remind everyone that its a *prototype*.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> The thing looks bulky and ugly. Then again, I can care less about the looks (although many others might)...I only care about the functions and features.


Here is a quick video of it.
http://www.g4tv.com/ces2009/videos/35956/CES_09_Hands_On_Echostar_VIP_922_Box.html

Best thing about the video clip, is the light on the Solo PiP light. Long live D(Q)LB and PiP.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Don't forget that if you want to use OTA, the 922 takes an internal card, so no change in dimensions.

The HR2x requires an AM21 module, which is just as wide and makes the HR2x an inch or two taller, though not much heavier. /steve


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Mucho Gracias...
> 
> Keep in mind it was 2 units stacked back to front.
> 
> ...


I realize it was two different units. I was basing it solely on the front of the unit (the top unit). Also, like I said, the looks don't bother me too much. I always prefer function over fashion.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

DodgerKing said:


> I realize it was two different units. I was basing it solely on the front of the unit (the top unit). Also, like I said, the looks don't bother me too much. I always prefer function over fashion.


It was kinda nice that I got to not only see them in person and also get a demo, but they were nice enough to let me snap photos including the front & back views....

Thanks also to the previous poster for sharing the video...even if those 2 guys were clearly running on 20 cups of coffee.....


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It was kinda nice that I got to not only see them in person and also get a demo, but they were nice enough to let me snap photos including the front & back views....
> 
> Thanks also to the previous poster for sharing the video...even if those 2 guys were clearly running on 20 cups of coffee.....


That would be nice. Perhaps the picture did not do the unit justice? Often things look better in person than on a picture.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It was kinda nice that I got to not only see them in person and also get a demo, but they were nice enough to let me snap photos including the front & back views....
> 
> Thanks also to the previous poster for sharing the video...even if those 2 guys were clearly running on 20 cups of coffee.....


Oh I think its 20 double shots of espresso. I try watching G4 ocassionaly, they DRIVE me nutz, no matter what the product is.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

GrumpyBear said:


> Here is a quick video of it.
> http://www.g4tv.com/ces2009/videos/35956/CES_09_Hands_On_Echostar_VIP_922_Box.html
> 
> Best thing about the video clip, is the light on the Solo PiP light. Long live D(Q)LB and PiP.


Thanks for posting this. Unfortunately I can not watch this while at work. My works smart filter blocks out video links. I'll have to wait until I get home.


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