# Bay Area Fox KTVU 2 Audio-Video Problems



## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Anyone else seeing this. While watching from recordings of satellite feed we have significant audio problems with video problems. Tonight on "House" and "lie to Me" they seemed to be struggling with it - shifted to SD then came back with HD, but audio continued to glitch. "This has been ahhpening for several weeks.


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## RTCDude (Feb 3, 2005)

Yep, we get lots of problems with the 10:00 news. There is the machine gun stutter syllable effect ("and now the,e,e,e,e,e,e,e new,w,w,ws"), and the hollow echo chamber million miles away effect. Sometimes it get so bad you can't understand the dialog. I just turn off the sound and lip read. Complaining to Dish is like talking to my TV (no response). And complaining to KTVU is like talking to my TV's image in a mirror (refer back to Dish).


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## Everlast (Apr 14, 2008)

I've been noticing the "audio stutter" (well described above) for a couple of weeks now. Happens both for live and recorded (VIP 722) shows. Only happens on KTVU/FOX and none of the other locals exhibit this problem.

I'm going to guess it's a problem with KTVU's feed to Dish (either on the sending or receiving end.) The stutter happens on both national FOX programs as well as local (like the 10:00 news.)

Awfully annoying.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

I've noticed the problem on KTVU (2) and KPIX (5) both San Francisco locals, not sure about the others.......
356B
vip622


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## plasmacat (Mar 14, 2007)

I posted on the general Dish discussion - same audio problems - been happening for weeks on all local channels but Fox is the worst. This is a Dish sat problem because OTA is fine. I am talking about the grinding noises every few minutes followed by loss of dialogue. I am not talking about the video problems at the beginning of House last night - I think that was a local station issue.


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## hylander3366 (Nov 25, 2009)

I am experiencing the same problem. I have experienced audio glitch on all of the local channels (San Francisco/Bay Area). I just recently switched from SD to HD. the problem did not arise until I switched and the glitch was immediate upon the switch. 

I contacted the tech support and they sent a home tech out. after replacing all of the cables and lnb switches I am having the same problem on both recievers. the glitch appears on both recievers at the same time. this makes me thing it is broacasting problem specifically with audio compression. 

My question to the other posters is how long have you had the HD without the problem and has anyone been able to shed light onto what the problem exactly is? 

Any information on what the cause is or the solution if any would be appriciated. 

just for info tech says signal is good (between 50 and 65 depending). I am using HMDI cables and have swapped them and the problem continues. The tech installed component cables thinking it was a HDMI problem and interestingly enough the problem got worse and new ones arrived so we are back to HDMI. LNB have been swapped and so have the cables. And finally the problem arrived after switching from SD that had no problems. 

Is anyone in other areas outside of SF/Bay area experiencing this problem. I need infor to tell Dish because apparently they are stumped. 

Any input greatly appricated! Very frustrating.


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## RTCDude (Feb 3, 2005)

hylander3366 said:


> I am experiencing the same problem. I have experienced audio glitch on all of the local channels (San Francisco/Bay Area). I just recently switched from SD to HD. the problem did not arise until I switched and the glitch was immediate upon the switch.
> 
> I contacted the tech support and they sent a home tech out. after replacing all of the cables and lnb switches I am having the same problem on both recievers. the glitch appears on both recievers at the same time. this makes me thing it is broacasting problem specifically with audio compression.
> 
> ...


KTVU has frequently been a mixed bag. A month or so ago, there were a couple of weeks where the 10:00 news had a extreme lip sync problem (sound leading by more than a second). Several months ago there was a couple of week spat of constant macro-blocking. I expect this current issue go away in a few weeks like the others. Complaining to Dish/KTVU never seems to make a problem go away any faster. You just have to wait it out.

By the way, it always makes me cringe when Dish wants to start swapping/replacing HW to solve these kinds of issues. Anyone that has worked with MPEG audio would immediately recognize the "machine gun stutter syllable effect" I descibed as a common effect when the MPEG audio stream is corrupted or there is a decoding error. Trying to swap out HW is laughable. Dish tech support should know better.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

KTVU has lost audio totally in the recent past on the HD side, SD deal was nominal. I believe the problems originate from KTVU and or all the locals. The locals routinely run a crawl during the day time about maintenance, upgrades and so on which may effect your viewing, could be connected.......KTVU does seem to be the most often affected though.
Audio has been a persistent problem in one form or another for a year or more on (2).
356B


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

For the record, after some frustration with audio last night, I sent the following email to Dish Quality and Dish Technical Support, with cc's to Echostar Engineering and the folks at the Administrative Office:


> *Subject: New San Francisco Bay Area HD Locals Audio (and sometimes) Video Problems*
> 
> Hello again -
> 
> ...


I'm sure they'll jump right on the problem.:sure:


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

phrelin said:


> For the record, after some frustration with audio last night, I sent the following email to Dish Quality and Dish Technical Support, with cc's to Echostar Engineering and the folks at the Administrative Office:
> I'm sure they'll jump right on the problem.:sure:


Actually they did jump on the problem. Though I can't deal with it as I'm leaving for Thanksgiving, I received the following email:


> Dear Mr. (me):
> 
> I did take a look at both channels you mentioned in your email today. I watched KPIX for an hour and a half this morning during Good Morning San Francisco and did not see or hear any issues. I monitored KTVU for an hour and a half today as well during "Family Feud" and your Local News. I did not see or hear any issues on this service either. I do have some questions for you. I hope you don't mind. As far as the FOX station goes is this only happening during Prime Time or are you experiencing these issues at all times of the day? Do you have your receiver hooked up to surround sound? If so, can you hook up your receiver directly to your TV to see if this is still happening?
> 
> ...


I don't watch any daytime TV. So all I can respond is in terms of primetime, recorded programs.

If anyone has something to pass on that might help them, post it here.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm watching the Green Bay, Detroit game, as I write this I just heard the chatter or stutter audio problem. It's on Fox, KTVU SF locally.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I guess we've been lucky (I also get Bay Area stations). In the last month I've only experienced prblems with one recording of So you think you can Dance - had a lot of audio and video problems when the dancing started.... if the people stood still no problems. Otherwise, no problems.


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## PeteSJCA (Jan 5, 2005)

created a new thread... this is what i said too..

Howdy,

I'm having daily, and numerous audio and video losses since the install of my 1000.2 dish about a year ago. Techs have come out twice in the last year, and last week E sent me a replacement 722 receiver. My local HD channels are the main problem. the 119 sat will not lock unless i change the transponder/spot beam from 7 (preset?) to something else 5, or 17 work well, when i come back it's switched back to 7. I've called E again this week and was told my local HD channels weren't on the 119, but when i check the program info, it says they are on the 119 satellite....

E wants to send out another tech, is it worth it?

Uverse just became available in my neighborhood in NE san jose, ca. Should i switch?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Yes, our HD locals are on 119 7. There is clearly something wrong with your equipment, and not the 722. There's another member here that has switched to Uverse twice and come back. So I'd again try letting a tech fix it.

That way you can complain about audio problems along with us.:sure:


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

when experiencing these problems... which seem to be broadcas related and not equipment problems... always report them to [email protected]. They have been extremely responsive in the past and will actually work with you to figure out the problem and get it resolved if it is something on their end.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's an update (or another response) from the Quality folks: 


> Dear (Me),
> 
> Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in DISH Network. Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously improve the quality of the DISH Network service.
> 
> ...


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## Everlast (Apr 14, 2008)

It was more than I could have hoped for. At least Dish and Fox are now aware of the problem. When they get around to addressing it -- remains to be seen.


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## plasmacat (Mar 14, 2007)

I also emailed Dish and got the exact same reply email today as Phrelin got today.


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## snowman (Nov 1, 2004)

I see the response from dish network, but it was really a fox national issue then why does it happen on KTVU news?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I sent the following followup email to Dish Quality this morning:


> Just an informational update.
> 
> Last night (Monday) we watched the Fox primetime lineup recorded from the satellite on our 722- "House" and "Lie to Me". The audio problem occurred frequently through both shows. I replayed the recordings this morning through the RCA audio out plugs and the problem could be heard. (One video freeze occurred in "Lie to Me.")
> 
> ...


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## plasmacat (Mar 14, 2007)

Since I had to call Dish to get my external HD activated, first I spent a long time discussing the audio glitch problem with the CSA. She had heard about Fox problems and I read her the email reply I got from Dish quality.
The more people who email or call Dish about this, the better.
Also last night I recorded House and Heroes at the same time. I decided to record House OTA and watched it later - no problems at all. I will watch Heroes recorded off the sat feed tonight


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## RTCDude (Feb 3, 2005)

phrelin said:


> I sent the following followup email to Dish Quality this morning:


This problem is NOT just something with the national feed. I watch the KTVU local news every night, and every night it's riddled with audio problems. If Dish quality is implying them don't find any issues with that local news broadcast, they're not looking.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I started getting this on KTVU recorded programs I watched last night...argg...


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

The recorded two hours of "Dollhouse" Friday (12/04) was a gurgle-fest and it froze up once and went to the "The Yellow Screen of Momentary Lost Consciousness" once.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

KTVU was gurgling Saturday afternoon and evening also. Either they can't figure it out or don't care......unfortunately for the consumer who or whom do you blame? Dish or KTVU.
The beat goes on.......
356B


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## Norm Wannabe (Dec 7, 2009)

Man! During the 4th quarter of the SF 49rs game, Fox's HD station just went to pot. Stuttering constantly. I switched to the SD channel, and it all went away.

Then, at the end of the game, Fox switched to the national coverage feed of the Dallas game. Same problems on the HD channel. 

So local and national Fox HD channels both seem to be screwed up today.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Norm Wannabe said:


> Man! During the 4th quarter of the SF 49rs game, Fox's HD station just went to pot. Stuttering constantly. I switched to the SD channel, and it all went away.
> 
> Then, at the end of the game, Fox switched to the national coverage feed of the Dallas game. Same problems on the HD channel.
> 
> So local and national Fox HD channels both seem to be screwed up today.


I watched the 49er game on both KTVU and RedZone.......RedZone had no audio distortions that I detected....the plot thickens.......:sure:


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## plasmacat (Mar 14, 2007)

I watched the 49ers on Fox HD OTA. No problems.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

When I get the "Yellow screen" or the problems, my family look and ask me what's wrong and to fix it...lol...I wish I could!


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

*I received this today from "Dish".*



> Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in DISH Network. Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously improve the quality of the DISH Network service.
> 
> "I monitored KTVU for an hour and a half today during "Family Feud" and you're Local News. I did not see or hear any issues on this service. I do have some questions for you. I hope you don't mind. Is this only happening during Prime Time and Sporting Events or are you experiencing these issues at all times of the day? Do you have your receiver hooked up to surround sound? If so, can you hook up your receiver directly to your TV to see if this is still happening? I am aware of problems with the National FOX feed but in order for me to determine if this is the reason for your issues I have to do some investigating."


I answered the questions and referred the person to this thread......


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

This morning I sent the following email to Dish Quality and Echostar Engineering, as well as a cc to the Administrative Office:


> Good morning -
> 
> This is another information update, but first a historical comment.
> 
> ...


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## Littledude (Aug 28, 2006)

If it helps any to know, I watched the Niner game on KTVU via D* and had no problems other than some crazy mistakes by the home team. I will check out my recording of the 12/4 Dollhouse to see if that has any problems, but it looks like you guyes have the source of the issue somewhat pinpointed. Good luck. 24 starts next month.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Littledude said:


> If it helps any to know, I watched the Niner game on KTVU via D* and had no problems other than some crazy mistakes by the home team. I will check out my recording of the 12/4 Dollhouse to see if that has any problems, but it looks like you guyes have the source of the issue somewhat pinpointed. Good luck. 24 starts next month.


Thanks. It confirms what I suspect - that it's not a Fox problem or a KTVU problem because OTA and Direct don't have the problem.

Both KGO ABC Sunday shows "Desperate Housewives" and "Brothers & Sisters" had the gurgle problem though the effect was much shorter and less noticeable. CBS Sunday show "Cold Case" was perfect even when the graphic to the left of the screen moved across to the middle. This latter graphic problem gave some audio/video problems in the past but I did not think that was related to the Fox and ABC problem.

When the 2008 Fox/ABC audio problem was cleared up in places like St. Louis, I kept saying it was still occuring in the Bay Area, just not as obvious or disruptive, just sort of smoothed out. But this probably is not related, is it???


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Sundays NFL 49er game was horrible in the 4th period, an interesting side note though; I have RedZone, NFL networks newest addition, the audio chatter problem did not exist with their broadcast during the 49er game, I did mention that to Dish Tech in my communications.
The beat goes on......


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## Everlast (Apr 14, 2008)

Recap of what has been experienced on this thread:

*Dish/KTVU Audio Problems Occur:*
1. Local KTVU broadcasts (such as the 10 O'Clock News)
2. National Fox programming (such as the 49er/Seahawks game and Dollhouse.)

*Problems do NOT Occur:*
A. Over the Air KTVU broadcasts, both local and national.
B. Identical programming on DirectTV.
C. Other channels on Dish.

*By deductive reasoning:*
The problem must exist somewhere in the feed between the local KTVU uplink and Dish Network.

Any flaw in the logic?


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## snowman (Nov 1, 2004)

Well, it happened on KGO News last night at 11:00PM.

Is there a shared uplink for SF stations to Dish?


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## Littledude (Aug 28, 2006)

phrelin said:


> The recorded two hours of "Dollhouse" Friday (12/04) was a gurgle-fest and it froze up once and went to the "The Yellow Screen of Momentary Lost Consciousness" once.


Just got around to watching this recording via D* on KTVU. Of the 2 hours, there was one point, when Ray Wise walked in (1:09), where the screen went black, but audio remained. Otherwise, the broadcast was flawless.


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## russ9 (Jan 28, 2004)

Norm Wannabe said:


> Then, at the end of the game, Fox switched to the national coverage feed of the Dallas game. Same problems on the HD channel.


It was probably the local station, ours kept the 49r's game on till the bitter end..


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## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

It was fairly prevalent during Glee last night. In fact, I can't think of a single KTVU FOX show that hasn't had this issue.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Well, I'm a bit behind in my email and on line stuff, but yesterday (12/9/2009 1:08 PM) I got this email from Dish Network Technical Support, a source I consider suspect in these kinds of cases:


> Dear Mr. _(my name typed in with a different font from the rest of the email)_,
> 
> Thank you for your email. We are happy to report that there was a resolution for your issue. After escalating the issue the problem was found on the side of the broadcaster. This should be improved if not resolved. If you continue having issues please reply.
> 
> ...


Of course, none of the previous correspondence from me was included which would allow me to reply by pushing a button instead of having to cut and paste to do what they didn't do - provide a personal response.

dmspen already informed us above that "Glee" had the problem last night. If we don't have it in tonight's recordings of "Bones" and "Fringe" I will be able to avoid being irked about the email. If we have it tonight, rest assured my response email will reflected my "irkedness."


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

For what it's worth the KTVU morning news was OK this morning. I have personally heard the chatter on the local end.....


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

356B said:


> For what it's worth the KTVU morning news was OK this morning. I have personally heard the chatter on the local end.....


I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

phrelin said:


> If we don't have it in tonight's recordings of "Bones" and "Fringe" I will be able to avoid being irked about the email. If we have it tonight, rest assured my response email will reflected my "irkedness."


"Bones" and "Fringe" were awful, filled with gurgles, I would guess 20 or so per hour. If they actually did anything, they made it worse, not better.

Also ABC's "Cougar Town" from last night also had two almost unnoticeable gurgles.

I will be sending an email reflecting my "irkedness" in the morning.

My gut tells me it is a problem because of uplink site _*hardware*_. My brain - based on clear and persuasive evidence offered here by people who record off-the-air and through DirecTV stating that they don't have the problem - screams that only a moron would think the problem is the Fox source.

As to the cause, I lean towards Dish Network cheapness because the Bay Area audio was never really fixed in 2008, just smoothed over with software changes. My ears and eyes were telling me that over the past year.:nono2:


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## eudoxia (Apr 8, 2008)

"Mornings on 2" has audio glitches all over the place this morning..


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Unfortunately the chatter returned to the morning news this day, local news for KTVU.
I've sent 3 e-mails to the "tech" department at Dish with more or less the same list of questions to respond to which I did, and the party line, a promise that this is being looked into. 
It's weird, does anyone know if this is going on in other parts of the country? or is this an isolated Bay Area situation. Audio problems have existed in one form or another for more than a year in this market, one would think the outcry would be louder, or perhaps subscribers simply don't know what to do.......on the other hand I'm not out in the rain turning the antenna with a pipe wrench like my father once did.....:roundandr


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I sent the following email this morning to Dish Quality, Echostar Engineering, the Administrative Office, and the unfortunate Tech Support Rep who was tasked with sending out the form email to me:


> Dear folks -
> 
> You are developing a serious credibility problem with customers in the Bay Area. Of course, you already know this if you are following the Bay Area Fox KTVU 2 Audio-Video Problems thread on DBSTalk, as you tell me you are. Frankly, I'm irked. Please don't tell Tech Support the problem is fixed if you don't know it's fixed based on reports from customers like me. It's embarrassing to the company and to us long time customers.
> 
> ...


:nono2:


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Phrelin....I bet you're getting closer and closer to calling tree companies to find out the cost to cut those trees down that are preventing you from going to Direct.


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## redelephants (Aug 10, 2009)

I am having problems in my DMA with audio on ABC affiliate. I have sent email explaining the problem and when it occurs, mainly in the early afternoon hours. I have continued to get replys from dish quality stating that they watched the local news and didn't experience any problems. As I stated to them numerous times, the problem hasn't occured during my local news it happens in the early afternoon around 2 pm. What I am experiencing is an audio/video sync problem. I am getting sick and tired of them not fixing these problems as they don't exist with any other service provider or OTA. I can switch to the SD feed with no problems so its obvisouly Dish's problem. I don't know what else to do other than record the problem and mail it to them, but I would receive the same ol' is your receiver hooked up to an audio receiver, does it just occur on one channel, how do you have your receiver hooked up bullcrap they blast out to everyone. I have read that dish just benchmarked 14 million customers and if they don't solve these audio issues they can count me out of those numbers.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

"Dollhouse" gurgled away tonight.


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## bbexperience (Jan 4, 2007)

I stumbled across this thread in my research to find an answer to the problems going on with my Fox feed through Dish. My station comes from Detroit. So, yes, this is effecting other areas of the country, and not just the Bay area.

I will note that I'm watching an Office rerun right now on Fox and it doesn't seem to have any issues. It's on the HD station but it's not being broadcast in HD so I don't know if that makes a difference.


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## stevedw (Jul 24, 2007)

Here is my reply from Dish...

Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience. We are aware of the programming interruption on your local channels and we are working to correct it as soon as possible. While most outages last only a few moments, there are times when extensive troubleshooting is needed to resolve the problem. We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your patience.

Thank you for taking time to contact us. General billing and programming information can be found at ww.dishnetwork. If you have any further questions or concerns, you can reply to this email or call 1-800-894-9131 for more specific information.

Sincerely,

Jeanne KRZ

DISH Network E-Care

** Please include all previous correspondence when replying to this message **



: This is a complaint of audio drops when watching ktvu in SF Bay Area. The other stations do not have the problem. My friends with regular antennas do not have the audio problems on ktvu, so I have to put the blame on the Dishnetwork.


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## plasmacat (Mar 14, 2007)

I finally got around to watching Dollhouse recorded from OTA on my 622. This had major major problems. It froze (pic and audio) for a long long time when Ballard and Boyd were discussing Echo - about midway through. I tried to FF. to stop and start again - nothing helped. Finally I managed to get past the frozen part where - at the end -the pic reverted to postage stamp size. I also had this freezing problem on last week's episode. 
So is this my 622 having fits or is this Fox's screwup? Like I said - this was the OTA HD broadcast. 
Also there were a few 1-2 second audio dropouts throughout the show though no grinding noises.


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## 356B (Oct 11, 2008)

Seems to be a hard fix or it's not a priority......another poster has reported audio problems in Florida, the ABC affiliate. I suspect this is a ongoing audio problem in one form or another everywhere....kind of like the economy......oh by the way, KTVU local gurgled this morning.......


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

I *think* I am seeing/hearing what you guys are. I don't have a lot of video problems, what I'm hearing though, is every now and then, the audio sort of "buzzes" while a word is being said. Someone mentioned a stuttering effect ... mine is sort of a computer like digital audio stutter effect. Is that it? Like I mentioned, I don't see a lot of video issues with the audio, but sometimes I do see "pausing" (freezing) of the audio and video. 5s up to 40s or more. (I saw this with Dollhouse last Fri. Recorded and then watched later.)

Once, I had a black screen come up and say "SyncGen 1" and then whatever the show was resumed.

??

I think this is limited to locals, but now that it's annoying me more, I'll try to be more observant about when and where it occurs.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

plasmacat said:


> I finally got around to watching Dollhouse recorded from OTA on my 622. This had major major problems. It froze (pic and audio) for a long long time when Ballard and Boyd were discussing Echo - about midway through. I tried to FF. to stop and start again - nothing helped. Finally I managed to get past the frozen part where - at the end -the pic reverted to postage stamp size. I also had this freezing problem on last week's episode.
> So is this my 622 having fits or is this Fox's screwup? Like I said - this was the OTA HD broadcast.
> Also there were a few 1-2 second audio dropouts throughout the show though no grinding noises.


Yes, yes, yes !! I remember the postage stamp effect now. This was maybe 10 min into the 2nd hour I think? I think I saw the same thing you did !! And this "freeze" last maybe 90s or more? I remember having to hit the jump forward button a few times to get to where the show was back to normal.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Kevin Brown said:


> Kevin Brown said:
> 
> 
> > I *think* I am seeing/hearing what you guys are. I don't have a lot of video problems, what I'm hearing though, is every now and then, the audio sort of "buzzes" while a word is being said. Someone mentioned a stuttering effect ... mine is sort of a computer like digital audio stutter effect. Is that it? Like I mentioned, I don't see a lot of video issues with the audio, but sometimes I do see "pausing" (freezing) of the audio and video. 5s up to 40s or more. (I saw this with Dollhouse last Fri. Recorded and then watched later.)
> ...


Yeah this happened. I just don't complain about this stuff yet hoping that when they finally figure out the audio gurgle problem they'll inadvertently fix the other stuff.

Tonight I accidentally caught a bit of the 11 pm KTVU news and the audio gurgle was awful - and this was live, not recorded. I haven't watch "Lie to Me" yet, but I'm fearful.


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## plasmacat (Mar 14, 2007)

Well I am relieved others saw the Dollhouse freeze/postage stamp thing and it's not my 622. 
I decided to rewatch last week's Dollhouse to see if the freeze that happened (when I initially watched the recording) when Ray Wise and Adele were talking in his office was still there. Surprise - it wasn't. The recording (OTA again) played perfectly. I don't get it - now I'm worried about my 622 again.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

phrelin said:


> Tonight I accidentally caught a bit of the 11 pm KTVU news and the audio gurgle was awful - and this was live, not recorded. I haven't watch "Lie to Me" yet, but I'm fearful.


The fear was justified. "Lie to Me" was another gurgle-fest.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I just received an email from Quality Assurance which I've posted as a new thread because of it's broader subject matter. See A Thoughtful Response from Quality Assurance .


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