# Unsupported Networking Discussion



## Gary16

DirecTV turned on my MRV the other day (I sent your recommended email and got a response less than 30 minutes later that it had been turned on so thanks for the tip). 
I have 5 HD-DVR's sharing through Ethernet connections (2 other HD-DVRs are currently not part of the MRV). DSL to router sending internet via wi-fi and direct ehternet connection through Netgear Powerline units.
The HD-DVRs are 1 HR24, 1 HR22, and 3 HR20's. All are fed via single wire SWM. The 24 and 22 are both in my theater room and the others are in bedrooms and the family room.
When I try to play something on the theater room units or one in the master bedroom I can pull from any of the other DVR's with perfect picture and sound. However, when trying to play on the units in the family room or downstairs extra bedroom I get freezing, and stopping and starting.
The only thing I can determine that's different, even though the theater room is fed by a wi-fi extender that is picking the signal up through the air and then sending it via ethernet to the DVR's and all the other units are fed via Powerline directly, is that the theater room and master bedroom are in the newer part of the house (additions) and are all wired with 3 prong outlets. The other two rooms are in the old part of the house and have 2 prong outlets. Could that make a difference? Any thoughts?


----------



## dennisj00

I read your post several times and I still can't conclude where the wireless extender and Power Line units are positioned, (not enough coffee!) but if the Wireless is G you'll have mixed results with video. Same for Powerline units. . . they can work well one day and iffy the next.

If I were you, I'd order 3 DECA modules and one Wireless CCK (it can also serve as a DECA) and add these to everything but the HR24. And be sure your splitters are green label.

Lots of pictures in the sticky thread.


----------



## Go Beavs

Gary16 said:


> DirecTV turned on my MRV the other day (I sent your recommended email and got a response less than 30 minutes later that it had been turned on so thanks for the tip).
> I have 5 HD-DVR's sharing through Ethernet connections (2 other HD-DVRs are currently not part of the MRV). DSL to router sending internet via wi-fi and direct ehternet connection through Netgear Powerline units.
> The HD-DVRs are 1 HR24, 1 HR22, and 3 HR20's. All are fed via single wire SWM. The 24 and 22 are both in my theater room and the others are in bedrooms and the family room.
> When I try to play something on the theater room units or one in the master bedroom I can pull from any of the other DVR's with perfect picture and sound. However, when trying to play on the units in the family room or downstairs extra bedroom I get freezing, and stopping and starting.
> The only thing I can determine that's different, even though the theater room is fed by a wi-fi extender that is picking the signal up through the air and then sending it via ethernet to the DVR's and all the other units are fed via Powerline directly, is that the theater room and master bedroom are in the newer part of the house (additions) and are all wired with 3 prong outlets. The other two rooms are in the old part of the house and have 2 prong outlets. Could that make a difference? Any thoughts?





dennisj00 said:


> I read your post several times and I still can't conclude where the wireless extender and Power Line units are positioned, (not enough coffee!) but if the Wireless is G you'll have mixed results with video. Same for Powerline units. . . they can work well one day and iffy the next.
> 
> If I were you, I'd order 3 DECA modules and one Wireless CCK (it can also serve as a DECA) and add these to everything but the HR24. And be sure your splitters are green label.
> 
> Lots of pictures in the sticky thread.


+1

MRV over WiFi can be very flakey and throw power line in the mix and you have the potential for a very unstable system.

WiFi on client boxes worked for me but when the box was a server, I experienced all sorts of troubles. Really, do yourself a favor and switch over to DECA.


----------



## Gary16

Go Beavs said:


> +1
> 
> MRV over WiFi can be very flakey and throw power line in the mix and you have the potential for a very unstable system.
> 
> WiFi on client boxes worked for me but when the box was a server, I experienced all sorts of troubles. Really, do yourself a favor and switch over to DECA.


I get the message. Thanks!


----------



## jdzier

First, I'd like to say that I read a LOT of the posts and replies here before trying this to help me decide. Then, I just went for it:

Wow. I received my response in about 10 minutes that my MRV was activated. Aleiza processed my order. When i installed my network for DVR, one of the guys i work with recommended replacing my hub with a new switch. I installed a TrendNet GreenNet 8 port switch that i bought on ebay for 26.50 (incl shipping) and 8 new Cat 6 cables (varied length) from monoprice.com for 44.50 (incl shipping). I am absolutely amazed at my throughput! Moving from a hub to a switch shows definate performance improvements in my overall network and I would highly recommend it even if you weren't about to do this install.

1 HD DVR, 2 HD Receivers, 1 Blu-Ray (w/Netflix), 1 Desktop (1TB Media Server), 2 Access Points, 2 laptops, 1 wifi Printer, 2 iPods, One Android, One Blackberry, 1 Wii, 1 PS2

If you have need for a network anyway, go with the unsupported method and save yourself the installation bucks!


----------



## veryoldschool

jdzier said:


> If you have need for a network anyway, go with the unsupported method and save yourself the installation bucks!


While this is a viable method, not all the newer receivers have ethernet, so this may not work.


----------



## jdzier

veryoldschool said:


> While this is a viable method, not all the newer receivers have ethernet, so this may not work.


Fair...but if you can get your hands on the equipment, I'm in support of unsupported.


----------



## Gary16

sweep49 said:


> Sent my "new" second request in on Monday and it was promptly denied stating that I needed to request installation of the proper equipment for $199. Replied to that reiterating that I wanted to be activated in unsupported mode. Then received a reply that my request was forwarded to a specialist. At 11:30 that night I received an email that my service had been activated. A longer process than some have endured but it was done. Thanks to all the folks on here for pointing the way. BTW, my units are networked with Trendnet 200mbps Powerline adapters and the whole home service is working very well, including ff, rw, and 30 skip.


Could you briefly explain your path from your modem to your boxes? I'm using Netgear Powerline 200 and 500mbps. Some recordings stream fine to the other boxes but some stop and skip and stutter (but always play ok on the box that it was recorded on) so I'm having trouble figuring out what the problem might be. How fast is your internet service?


----------



## veryoldschool

Gary16 said:


> Could you briefly explain your path from your modem to your boxes? I'm using Netgear Powerline 200 and 500mbps. Some recordings stream fine to the other boxes but some stop and skip and stutter (but always play ok on the box that it was recorded on) so I'm having trouble figuring out what the problem might be. How fast is your internet service?


What it sounds like is the problem is the powerline adapters aren't on the same circuit, so the path is much longer, and thus why powerline and wireless isn't always the best option for MRV.


----------



## Gary16

veryoldschool said:


> What it sounds like is the problem is the powerline adapters aren't on the same circuit, so the path is much longer, and thus why powerline and wireless isn't always the best option for MRV.


Sounds logical (unfortunately). 3 of the receivers are in newer parts of the house that were added over the last 10 years. The other receivers are in the original part of the house where there are still two-prong outlets, etc.


----------



## lugnutathome

Though that may imply the same circuit panel it may not mean the same circuit itself. Likely not.

There is no substitute for a hardwired network, period. Direct TV has come up with a reliable alternative turning their already required coax infrastructure into its own networking fabric specifically for this purpose. It was made for people in exactly your situation.

Unless you already have a hard wired network in place, you are in for frustration. Negotiate a price for the DECA conversion and then let Direct TV do the debug and maintenance while you enjoy the service without having all the fussy almost good enough work arounds.

Don "zero cost advice from one whom is running using his own LAN (happily)" Bolton



Gary16 said:


> Sounds logical (unfortunately). 3 of the receivers are in newer parts of the house that were added over the last 10 years. The other receivers are in the original part of the house where there are still two-prong outlets, etc.


----------



## zx10guy

Gary16 said:


> Sounds logical (unfortunately). 3 of the receivers are in newer parts of the house that were added over the last 10 years. The other receivers are in the original part of the house where there are still two-prong outlets, etc.


It could be the quality of the wiring causing issues. Also, if the powerline adapters are connected across different circuit breakers, this can cause issues too. There is a sticky on troubleshooting powerline adapters on the Netgear support forums. In this sticky, there has been discussions on problems users have been having with powerline adapters communicating across circuit breakers. Some users have indicated Netgear support stating the adapters were not designed to work across circuit breakers.


----------



## sweep49

Gary16 said:


> Could you briefly explain your path from your modem to your boxes? I'm using Netgear Powerline 200 and 500mbps. Some recordings stream fine to the other boxes but some stop and skip and stutter (but always play ok on the box that it was recorded on) so I'm having trouble figuring out what the problem might be. How fast is your internet service?


All 3 of my adapters are on different circuits and one of them is on a separate panel which is connected to the house's main panel. Using the Powerline Utility I have one running at 188 and the other two at 135 Mbps. I think the unit running at 188 is on the same circuit as the adapter which plugs into the router.
At first, I had one of the adapters plugged into the surge protection socket on an APC UPS, and this reduced its rate to 90-100. Now, all three are plugged straight into a wall outlet. What I have found is that these units are sensitive to AC line noise. Plug a vacuum sweeper into a circuit an adapter is on and its thruput rate will drop dramatically. I have a treadmill on one of the circuits and when its on, I can't use mrv on that dvr.

You asked what my internet speed is and I'm not sure; but this makes no difference for mrv playback. Internet thruput only matters for vod download.

So, in summary:
Use the Powerline utility program to check your mbps rates for each adapter; hopefully each runs at least 20% faster than 100mbps which is the rating for the dvr's ethernet port.

Make sure each adapter is not running thru a surge protector or UPS unit.

If you have an adapter running a slow mbps rate, check for induced line noise on that circuit from another electrical device powered on that circuit. Perhaps something which runs continuously like an aquarium pump, for example. Remember, that things like vacuum sweepers, treadmills and blenders for example, can induce line noise when they are on.


----------



## MRinDenver

I am late to the party, I guess. Sent the email yesterday and was connected in less than two hours. This is a service I think we will actually use! My thanks to DBSTalk for the information!


----------



## vict

To the OP: 

Definitely go DECA. I did the wireless thing for a while and even with wirless n devices, I could not completely prevent stuttering and buffering. 

Also, you have most of the hardware you need already installed. If I'm reading correctly all you really need are DECA adapters for your DVRs.

Another thing I didn't see mentioned is getting the MRV off your home network. When I was wireless, when anything else was using the network (iphone, laptop, whatever), it caused a lot of stuttering and buffering if I was using MRV at the same time. The DECA cloud let's you avoid this issue.


----------



## Gary16

vict said:


> To the OP:
> 
> Definitely go DECA. I did the wireless thing for a while and even with wirless n devices, I could not completely prevent stuttering and buffering.
> 
> Also, you have most of the hardware you need already installed. If I'm reading correctly all you really need are DECA adapters for your DVRs.
> 
> Another thing I didn't see mentioned is getting the MRV off your home network. When I was wireless, when anything else was using the network (iphone, laptop, whatever), it caused a lot of stuttering and buffering if I was using MRV at the same time. The DECA cloud let's you avoid this issue.


The remaining negative to going DECA as I understand it is that I would no longer be able to feed with my roof antenna thru to the OTA tuners in the boxes. I need the antenna feed since DirecTV does not carry any of the .2 channels from the local stations. At this point in time, having the OTA is more important than a non-stuttering Whole Home unless someone has a workaround.


----------



## lugnutathome

Now THAT I can relate to!

I have 2 and 3 coax lines per room to feed pre SWM DVRs with wideband HD and terrestrial. Not a low cost fix. (started with a single coax and diplexers pre HD)

However all the "work arounds" (wireless, power line) for LAN distribution are no substitute for a hard wired network. If you want it to be reliable you'll have to pull some wire for something.

I run a 10/100 switched network with 6 workgroup switches off a main backbone switch with flawless Whole Home streaming. Adding several DECA only boxes saw me create a mini DECA cloud on one of the SWMs and that bridges to my LAN via the older CCK (ICK), again flawlessly.

I maintain a separate terrestrial coax network though I don't frequent the sideband channels like I first thought, it's mainly an FM antenna distribution for me now.

Conventional cat[x] networking is a viable distribution medium for WH traffic but it means when it glitches and it does from time to time (DECA or not) you can't call the helpless desk for support.

Don "for most subscribers that would be a problem" Bolton



Gary16 said:


> The remaining negative to going DECA as I understand it is that I would no longer be able to feed with my roof antenna thru to the OTA tuners in the boxes. I need the antenna feed since DirecTV does not carry any of the .2 channels from the local stations. At this point in time, having the OTA is more important than a non-stuttering Whole Home unless someone has a workaround.


----------



## vict

Gary16 said:


> The remaining negative to going DECA as I understand it is that I would no longer be able to feed with my roof antenna thru to the OTA tuners in the boxes. I need the antenna feed since DirecTV does not carry any of the .2 channels from the local stations. At this point in time, having the OTA is more important than a non-stuttering Whole Home unless someone has a workaround.


Are you only running OTA on the HR20s? (I didn't think HR24s and 22s had an OTA tuner). I'm assuming your running your OTA on the single coax, and using a diplexer at the DVR?

I'm currently running DECA and OTA on my HR20. However, I have a separate coax for the OTA (not diplexed).

In any event, if you want to keep your current settup, and get better functioning MRV, I think you need to pull some CAT5. Or pull some coax from your antenna/OTA, and run DECA on your SWM.


----------



## dpeters11

"vict" said:


> Are you only running OTA on the HR20s? (I didn't think HR24s and 22s had an OTA tuner). I'm assuming your running your OTA on the single coax, and using a diplexer at the DVR?


Not built in, though they can use an AM21.


----------



## tenn_

Hope I'm in the right thread here, if not please direct me?

I want to get hooked up with DirecTV WHDVR service. I have two HD DVR's and a SWM that were DirecTV installed. I'm a three year DirecTV customer. 

I do not have an On Demand configuration installed yet. What hardware do I need to set up the On Demand and WHDVR service and where should I get it? What steps should I take with DirecTV to get the service. I am an electronics tech.

Thanks for any assistance.


----------



## vict

tenn_ said:


> Hope I'm in the right thread here, if not please direct me?
> 
> I want to get hooked up with DirecTV WHDVR service. I have two HD DVR's and a SWM that were DirecTV installed. I'm a three year DirecTV customer. What hardware do I need to set up the WHDVR service and where should I get it? What steps should I take with DirecTV to get the service. I am an electronics tech.
> 
> Thanks for any assistance.


Long answer: Read these threads http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=178068

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=201050

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=200573

Short Answer: If you only want WHDVR, you likely only need DECA modules on all your HD recievers and depending on the model #s, you might need some additional minor hardware (Band Stop Filters). You can get these from multiple sources, including ebay. Or you can contact directv and have them come do an install. If you want VOD and other internet features, you'll have to get a broadband adapter or CCK unit to brige your internet into your DECA cloud.


----------



## RACJ2

Strange thing happened with my non supported MRV setup. I was watching a recording from a remote DVR and pressed my power off button to shut everything down. Left the house for a couple hours, came back home and noticed my DVR power was on. Pressed the on button to turn on the TV and audio receiver. And the remote program that I was watching earlier, that was only an hour long, was still playing. 

And when I tried to stop it or do any command, the DVR wouldn't respond. Even pressing the power off button wouldn't shut the DVR off. I then unplugged the ethernet connection and the programming stopped. Tried pressing the power button on the DVR and still wouldn't turn off. Plugged ethernet cable back in and the remote program starts playing again. Finally had to do an RBR to get it to stop and after rebooting, its back to working normal again. Strange.


----------



## lugnutathome

So **your** DVR is where all those dropped packets the rest of us keep seeing on stream failures are going

Have you also found a bunch of odd socks?:lol:

Seriously, these systems sometimes seem to do strange things and a complete power disconnect in some cases is the only road back.

Don "the devil made me do it" Bolton



RACJ2 said:


> Strange thing happened with my non supported MRV setup. I was watching a recording from a remote DVR and pressed my power off button to shut everything down. Left the house for a couple hours, came back home and noticed my DVR power was on. Pressed the on button to turn on the TV and audio receiver. And the remote program that I was watching earlier, that was only an hour long, was still playing.
> 
> And when I tried to stop it or do any command, the DVR wouldn't respond. Even pressing the power off button wouldn't shut the DVR off. I then unplugged the ethernet connection and the programming stopped. Tried pressing the power button on the DVR and still wouldn't turn off. Plugged ethernet cable back in and the remote program starts playing again. Finally had to do an RBR to get it to stop and after rebooting, its back to working normal again. Strange.


----------



## RACJ2

lugnutathome said:


> So **your** DVR is where all those dropped packets the rest of us keep seeing on stream failures are going
> 
> Have you also found a bunch of odd socks?:lol:
> 
> Seriously, these systems sometimes seem to do strange things and a complete power disconnect in some cases is the only road back.
> 
> Don "the devil made me do it" Bolton


LOL... a few socks made it here. Can you please send the matching sock to the ones I received?


----------



## AlbaTiVo

Hi all, 

We have had WET610N's connected to both of our HDDVRs for internet access from each box and after reading on here that it was possible, although not recommended , I thought I would try enabling unsupported MRV.

If I can get it up and running at least somewhat I may be able to convince the better half that we would use the proper DECA install. 

It was turned on earlier and I have tested the WET610N's using a laptop to make sure they are working, reset the network defaults and performed a reset and a RBR and then connect now, the but I am still getting the "No networked DVRs found" message.

Any ideas what I should try next?

Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

AlbaTiVo said:


> Hi all,
> 
> We have had WET610N's connected to both of our HDDVRs for internet access from each box and after reading on here that it was possible, although not recommended , I thought I would try enabling unsupported MRV.
> 
> If I can get it up and running at least somewhat I may be able to convince the better half that we would use the proper DECA install.
> 
> It was turned on earlier and I have tested the WET610N's using a laptop to make sure they are working, reset the network defaults and performed a reset and a RBR and then connect now, the but I am still getting the "No networked DVRs found" message.
> 
> Any ideas what I should try next?
> 
> Thanks!


A couple of things:
Check the receivers to see what IP address they're using.
If they've found the router, then they should be using the IP it controls.
If they haven't, then they'll use their internal 169.xxx IP.
They need to both be using the IPs from the same source, be it internal or from the router.
If they are, it might help to do a menu restart on each, as this tends to have them "go look" for the other receivers on the network.
After this, it may just need to wait, as they sometimes when using internal IPs it takes a while.


----------



## AlbaTiVo

veryoldschool said:


> A couple of things:
> Check the receivers to see what IP address they're using.
> If they've found the router, then they should be using the IP it controls.
> If they haven't, then they'll use their internal 169.xxx IP.
> They need to both be using the IPs from the same source, be it internal or from the router.
> If they are, it might help to do a menu restart on each, as this tends to have them "go look" for the other receivers on the network.
> After this, it may just need to wait, as they sometimes when using internal IPs it takes a while.


This is what I am seeing: 
IP Address 192.168.1.134
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.1
Default Gateway 192.168.1.1
DNS 192.168.1.1

The other box is the same except for the IP Address of 192.168.1.130

I am trying a menu reset on them both right now.

Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

AlbaTiVo said:


> This is what I am seeing:
> IP Address 192.168.1.134
> Subnet Mask 255.255.255.1 *<-----|*
> Default Gateway 192.168.1.1
> DNS 192.168.1.1
> 
> The other box is the same except for the IP Address of 192.168.1.130
> 
> I am trying a menu reset on them both right now.
> 
> Thanks!


Those look good but the submask looks wrong. I'd expect to see 255.255.255.0


----------



## AlbaTiVo

veryoldschool said:


> Those look good but the submask looks wrong. I'd expect to see 255.255.255.0


Oops! Fat fingers - it is indeed 0 and even after letting everything sit overnight I am still getting the "No networked DVRs found" message.

Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

AlbaTiVo said:


> Oops! Fat fingers - it is indeed 0 and even after letting everything sit overnight I am still getting the "No networked DVRs found" message.
> 
> Thanks!


I'm getting tapped out here.
Your receivers are under control from the router, as it's sending the IPs, so this suggests the problem is in the router.


----------



## AlbaTiVo

Okay, so since I cannot get this working via wireless I would like to consider using DECA. I have read as much as possible but cannot seem to find the answer I am looking for.

Can I leave the 2 receivers I have connected to the internet as they are today using WET610N's and just add a receiver DECA to the line behind each receiver and that will enable the MRV piece? So they will use DECA for MRV and the WET610N's for VOD, etc.? The DECA will not have to utilize an ethernet connection of any kind?

I can't figure out if I can do this or if I need 2 receiver DECA's and a BB DECA that then connects to a WET610N with the other WET610N no longer needed.

Thanks!


----------



## veryoldschool

AlbaTiVo said:


> Okay, so since I cannot get this working via wireless I would like to consider using DECA. I have read as much as possible but cannot seem to find the answer I am looking for.
> 
> Can I leave the 2 receivers I have connected to the internet as they are today using WET610N's and just add a receiver DECA to the line behind each receiver and that will enable the MRV piece? So they will use DECA for MRV and the WET610N's for VOD, etc.? The DECA will not have to utilize an ethernet connection of any kind?
> 
> I can't figure out if I can do this or if I need 2 receiver DECA's and a BB DECA that then connects to a WET610N with the other WET610N no longer needed.
> 
> Thanks!


The receiver can only use wireless adapters or the DECA.
DECA only works on a SWiM system.
If you move to DECA, internet access needs to come from another DECA than what you connect to the receivers.
There is a wireless DECA that some have used for both the receiver's connection and to connect to the router through wireless. This isn't a supported method, but with a Band stop filter for the receiver it has worked.

You might be better served by looking into your router for the problem, or trying another router.


----------



## AlbaTiVo

veryoldschool said:


> The receiver can only use wireless adapters or the DECA.
> DECA only works on a SWiM system.
> If you move to DECA, internet access needs to come from another DECA than what you connect to the receivers.
> There is a wireless DECA that some have used for both the receiver's connection and to connect to the router through wireless. This isn't a supported method, but with a Band stop filter for the receiver it has worked.
> 
> You might be better served by looking into your router for the problem, or trying another router.


I just shut everything down and restarted it as:

Cable modem
Wireless router
SWiM power supply
WET610N's
Receivers

...and I am still getting the same message. It looks like a kit like this for $45 shipped will be a lot cheaper and more reliable than switching out the router in an attempt to get MRV working over a wireless network.

Thanks for all of your suggestions!

Steven


----------



## veryoldschool

AlbaTiVo said:


> I just shut everything down and restarted it as:
> 
> Cable modem
> Wireless router
> SWiM power supply
> WET610N's
> Receivers
> 
> ...and I am still getting the same message. It looks like a kit like this for $45 shipped will be a lot cheaper and more reliable than switching out the router in an attempt to get MRV working over a wireless network.
> 
> Thanks for all of your suggestions!
> 
> Steven


That kit looks to have most of what you'd need.
Another coax to the BB DECA, and since you have a SWiM, check that the splitter is the type with a green label. If so and you have a coax for the BB DECA, you're set, "but" the problem might still be there if it's in the router.
"I don't know", but from what your current setup shows, it should be working.
Problems with wireless normally are poor playback, but not finding other receivers.


----------



## AlbaTiVo

veryoldschool said:


> That kit looks to have most of what you'd need.
> Another coax to the BB DECA, and since you have a SWiM, check that the splitter is the type with a green label. If so and you have a coax for the BB DECA, you're set, "but" the problem might still be there if it's in the router.
> "I don't know" [yet] from what your current setup shows, it should be working.
> Problems with wireless normally are poor playback, but not finding other receivers.


But since I can access VOD, etc. fine today will the router not still be fine as is? I will still be using it for the internet apps and not MRV which is the part that I cannot get working. Sorry for all of the questions.


----------



## veryoldschool

AlbaTiVo said:


> But since I can access VOD, etc. fine today will the router not still be fine as is? I will still be using it for the internet apps and not MRV which is the part that I cannot get working. Sorry for all of the questions.


It's the nature of the forum to ask & answer questions, so there's no need for "sorry".
Routers aren't just a simple switch. They have ports and all sorts of "things".
Having internet access is using one port [or more] and since the router is sending IP addresses to the receivers, it's what should be telling each that there are other receivers on the network.
Changing over to DECA doesn't change the router doing this.
The only different is it will be coming through the ethernet ports instead of the wireless part.
Not sure of your router [model] but I've had and a few here have had to find the recessed factory reset button, to clear glitches they had.


----------



## lugnutathome

The first thoughts that hit my mind here are to ask the obvious and if you have done so please forgive me.

Have you gone to the whole home menu and set up the familiar names, sharing and deletion settings, etc?

It is possible to have the DVRs on the network, Whole Home to be enabled but not configured. I do not know what sort of errors that may yield but perhaps?

Don "desperate ducks commit desperate acts" Bolton



AlbaTiVo said:


> Hi all,
> 
> We have had WET610N's connected to both of our HDDVRs for internet access from each box and after reading on here that it was possible, although not recommended , I thought I would try enabling unsupported MRV.
> 
> If I can get it up and running at least somewhat I may be able to convince the better half that we would use the proper DECA install.
> 
> It was turned on earlier and I have tested the WET610N's using a laptop to make sure they are working, reset the network defaults and performed a reset and a RBR and then connect now, the but I am still getting the "No networked DVRs found" message.
> 
> Any ideas what I should try next?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## AlbaTiVo

veryoldschool said:


> It's the nature of the forum to ask & answer questions, so there's no need for "sorry".
> Routers aren't just a simple switch. They have ports and all sorts of "things".
> Having internet access is using one port [or more] and since the router is sending IP addresses to the receivers, it's what should be telling each that there are other receivers on the network.
> Changing over to DECA doesn't change the router doing this.
> The only different is it will be coming through the ethernet ports instead of the wireless part.
> Not sure of your router [model] but I've had and a few here have had to find the recessed factory reset button, to clear glitches they had.


I did a factory reset on the router and then a RBR on the two receivers and everything is now working.

I cannot thank you enough for your help!

Steven


----------



## veryoldschool

AlbaTiVo said:


> I did a factory reset on the router and then a RBR on the two receivers and everything is now working.
> 
> I cannot thank you enough for your help!
> 
> Steven


I think I'd gone so far as to take mine out to the garbage can, before I remembered the factory reset and found it worked. Had nothing to do with MRV, but the router had just packed up.


----------



## warren516

Received my 2 DECA units and the Broadband Internet On Demand Kit ($45 on ebay) today and connected them up. Made sure that my units had access to VOD and internet, then sent DirecTV an email, as the OP wrote.

They turned it on for me in a couple of hours, no questions asked. Thanks for letting me know the way to ask without calling.


----------



## bubbles

I called DirecTV last year and inquired about the whole home dvr. I was told it was going to cost me 450.00 for the equipment and the install. I said no thanks to that deal. I called again the other day and was told it would be 199 for the equipment and 49.00 for the install. We have the HR24 in the bedroom and the HR20 in the living room. I was wondering if there was a way to do it myself and my Google search led me to this board. I e-mailed DirecTv with the info provided in the original post. I received an e-mail thanking me for being a valued longtime customer and they turned on the Whole Home DVR, in less then 3 hours from when I sent the e-mail. The HR20 in the living is plugged into my router via Ethernet. I did not want a long Ethernet chord going to my bedroom from the living room so I picked up the WNCE2001 Netgear wireless Ethernet adapter from Wal-Mart for 50.00. I figured if it did not work then I could return it. Incredibly it all works! 
I also found the information on how to switch from our current Zinwell WB68 setup to the SWM setup. I am not in a rush to do that now since the wireless is working so well. Just wanted to say thanks!


----------



## tenn_

Can anyone here direct me to the "recommended e-mail" to send to DirecTv to get MRV activated, I can't find it in this thread?

Thank you.


----------



## Go Beavs

You can find the information in this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=177590


----------



## tenn_

Go Beavs said:


> You can find the information in this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=177590


Thank you!


----------



## tenn_

I'm not sure where to start with hardware in getting MVR activated and could use some guidance. 

I have an ATT "2Wire" router/DSL network installed and working. 

I have a DirecTv SWiM installed and HR23 and HR22 DVR's plus 2 more non-DVR HD receivers. It is not practical to run an ethernet cable from my router to either DVR. What additional hardware will I need to get MVR working?

Thank you.


----------



## allenn

tenn_ said:


> ........ What additional hardware will I need to get MVR working? Thank you.


I would suggest Directv wireless Cinema Connection Kit (CCK-W). You can see the information here:
www.solidsignal.com D* Wireless CCK-W.

This device is amazing. I replaced two wireless bridges with the CCK-W. It provides continuous internet to my two HR-24-100's. If I could figure a way to connect my Sony PS3 into the coax, I would, so I could remove the remaining bridge. The CCK-W talks to a Linksys router on the second floor. It is that good. Best wishes!


----------



## Go Beavs

tenn_ said:


> I'm not sure where to start with hardware in getting MVR activated and could use some guidance.
> 
> I have an ATT "2Wire" router/DSL network installed and working.
> 
> I have a DirecTv SWiM installed and HR23 and HR22 DVR's plus 2 more non-DVR HD receivers. It is not practical to run an ethernet cable from my router to either DVR. What additional hardware will I need to get MVR working?
> 
> Thank you.


Sounds like you need a wireless DECA (as *allenn* suggests), a receiver DECA, and two Band Stop filters.

For further reading, there's a list of threads and FAQ's in a sticky at the top of this forum.
Direct link: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=201050


----------



## douglasaking

I apologize in advance if I'm highjacking this thread. I was able to successfully get MRV turned on (unsupported Ethernet) via the email script, only took 1 hour (good news). All receivers are showing MRV enabled, however the infamous "No Networked DVR's" found is present on each. All units are hardwired CAT-5 directly into my router. I've rebooted each receiver, re-run network set-up (confrmed each are assigned IP's in 192.168.1.XXX, confirmed gateway are the same, subnet, etc.). Have also used an IP scanning tool to ping each device on the network. Any ideas I can try to troubleshoot? 

Here is my set-up...again each is hardwired via CAT-5 into my 2-Wire router...

#1 HR22-100
192.168.1.75
Gateway: 192.168.1.254
DNS: 192.168.1.254
Subnet: 255.255.255.0


#2 HR22-100
192.168.1.77
Gateway: 192.168.1.254
DNS: 192.168.1.254
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

#3 H23-600
192.168.1.73
Gateway: 192.168.1.254
DNS: 192.168.1.254
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

#4 H23-600
192.168.1.79
Gateway: 192.168.1.254
DNS: 192.168.1.254
Subnet: 255.255.255.0


----------



## dennisj00

Be sure 'Share Playlist' in Whole-home is enabled.


----------



## veryoldschool

douglasaking said:


> Here is my set-up...again each is hardwired via CAT-5 into my* 2-Wire router*...
> 
> #1 HR22-100
> 192.168.1.75
> Gateway: 192.168.1.254
> DNS: 192.168.1.254
> Subnet: 255.255.255.0
> 
> #2 HR22-100
> 192.168.1.77
> Gateway: 192.168.1.254
> DNS: 192.168.1.254
> Subnet: 255.255.255.0
> 
> #3 H23-600
> 192.168.1.73
> Gateway: 192.168.1.254
> DNS: 192.168.1.254
> Subnet: 255.255.255.0
> 
> #4 H23-600
> 192.168.1.79
> Gateway: 192.168.1.254
> DNS: 192.168.1.254
> Subnet: 255.255.255.0


Those all look good. I've used 2Wire modems for some time and haven't had any problems.

You might reboot the 2Wire, and then the receivers.


----------



## douglasaking

veryoldschool said:


> Those all look good. I've used 2Wire modems for some time and haven't had any problems.
> 
> You might reboot the 2Wire, and then the receivers.


That did the trick...reboot of the 2Wire seems to have been the fix. All is good! Thanks for the help.


----------



## kiljoy

I hope this is the right place to ask. I have two HR22s and have been using whole home under an unsupported configuration since they started offering it. It's always been fine. Now, however, neither DVR can see the other though both have sharing turned on in the settings.

Nothing at all has changed on my end. I'm using the same router I always have and haven't touched the configuration there, neither of the DVRs has been switched out, both can see the network fine. I don't know when they stopped seeing each other.

Any idea what to try? I don't really want to buy equipment as the sharing works well enough over ethernet for me.


----------



## veryoldschool

kiljoy said:


> I hope this is the right place to ask. I have two HR22s and have been using whole home under an unsupported configuration since they started offering it. It's always been fine. Now, however, neither DVR can see the other though both have sharing turned on in the settings.
> 
> Nothing at all has changed on my end. I'm using the same router I always have and haven't touched the configuration there, neither of the DVRs has been switched out, both can see the network fine. I don't know when they stopped seeing each other.
> 
> Any idea what to try? I don't really want to buy equipment as the sharing works well enough over ethernet for me.


Things to check/do:
Do the IP addresses start with matching numbers? [ie 192.xxx]
Have you rebooted your router?


----------



## kiljoy

veryoldschool said:


> Things to check/do:
> Do the IP addresses start with matching numbers? [ie 192.xxx]
> Have you rebooted your router?


Both have static addresses assigned to them via DHCP, 192.168.0.175 & 192.168.0.176. The router has been restarted.

I also realized I hadn't RBR'd either receiver (in what seems like a year actually) so I tried that on both too. I repeated network setup, both passed just fine, and I tried toggling off and on sharing.

Still neither sees the other.


----------



## lugnutathome

Just a wild thought. . . Did you check the list sort order? Could it now be set local instead of all?

Sometimew firmware updates do unexpected things as can family members.

Don "just a possability" Bolton


----------



## kiljoy

lugnutathome said:


> Just a wild thought. . . Did you check the list sort order? Could it now be set local instead of all?
> 
> Sometimew firmware updates do unexpected things as can family members.
> 
> Don "just a possability" Bolton


No, it's not that because under Settings > Whole-Home it says "No connected receivers"


----------



## veryoldschool

kiljoy said:


> No, it's not that because under Settings > Whole-Home it says "No connected receivers"


This is sort of the problem with "unsupported", as it's all up to you to troubleshoot.

I'd go back to the receivers and reset the network defaults, then reboot them.
If this doesn't work, then look at the ethernet ports and try others.
If it still doesn't work, I'd look further at the router and maybe try a factory reset [normally a recessed button on the box].


----------



## kiljoy

Well yeah, I do understand the unsupported aspect of it.

We know the ethernet ports are fine, both receivers show up as connected to the internet in their settings and on the router.

I could easily believe it's a router configuration issue but why would a router block certain traffic within a LAN? It's a D-Link DIR-655 on the latest firmware. In fact, I strongly suspect that updating the firmware is what caused the issue. Can you think of any type of settings on the router that might have been reset? Are there specific ports I need to open on the DVRs?


----------



## veryoldschool

kiljoy said:


> Well yeah, I do understand the unsupported aspect of it.
> 
> We know the ethernet ports are fine, both receivers show up as connected to the internet in their settings and on the router.
> 
> I could easily believe it's a router configuration issue but why would a router block certain traffic within a LAN? It's a D-Link DIR-655 on the latest firmware. In fact, I strongly suspect that updating the firmware is what caused the issue. Can you think of any type of settings on the router that might have been reset? Are there specific ports I need to open on the DVRs?


This level of networking/ethernet is beyond me, so :shrug:
I do know from my own experience that ports do get blocked and cause this problem. My networking is mostly "plug & play", meaning I "plug it in" and then "play" until I get it working. :eek2: :lol:


----------



## kiljoy

Yeah, that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge too. It strikes me as odd that it was working fine for the longest time and now it just won't work. I'll try to reset the router this weekend, I don't feel like going through the hassle of manually restoring the settings today.

What's the latest word in moving to the supported method? I looked into it when it first got rolled out but every time I come back to the board the tech is completely different. Is it still some sort of DECA box at each receiver?


----------



## veryoldschool

kiljoy said:


> What's the latest word in moving to the supported method? I looked into it when it first got rolled out but every time I come back to the board the tech is completely different. Is it still some sort of DECA box at each receiver?


Not much has changed other than the price going up for the upgrade.


----------



## caseyf5

kiljoy said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge too. It strikes me as odd that it was working fine for the longest time and now it just won't work. I'll try to reset the router this weekend, I don't feel like going through the hassle of manually restoring the settings today.
> 
> What's the latest word in moving to the supported method? I looked into it when it first got rolled out but every time I come back to the board the tech is completely different. Is it still some sort of DECA box at each receiver?


Hello kiljoy,

The H24, H25, HR24 and HR34 have DECA built in to the units. All other receivers/dvr's require a DECA adapter whether the original in white or the newest DECA adapter that is black. White and black seen at the url below with the 4 pictures under customer images from Chris:

http://www.amazon.com/DirecTV-DECA-Network-Adapter-HR20/dp/B0041INCYI

I would recommend the supported method and make sure to include a CCK either wired or wireless.

wired cck

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...n=GAN&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=k244266

wireless cck

http://www.wiredathome.com/directv-...ection-Kit-(CCKW)&c=Satellite Components&sku=

I used Amazon and Solid Signal for illustrative purposes only. There are many places to purchase these and other items for your DirecTV system. There is a great amount of information about the supported method but one of my recommendations is a great resource that no one should ignore. *Very Old School!!!*:wizardhat


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Many times a simple restore network defaults will fix the issue, other times I've had to reboot the receiver but betwwen those two I've always been able to get the network working with whole home.


----------



## kiljoy

caseyf5 said:


> Hello kiljoy,
> 
> The H24, H25, HR24 and HR34 have DECA built in to the units. All other receivers/dvr's require a DECA adapter whether the original in white or the newest DECA adapter that is black. White and black seen at the url below with the 4 pictures under customer images from Chris:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/DirecTV-DECA-Network-Adapter-HR20/dp/B0041INCYI
> 
> I would recommend the supported method and make sure to include a CCK either wired or wireless.
> 
> wired cck
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...n=GAN&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=k244266
> 
> wireless cck
> 
> http://www.wiredathome.com/directv-...ection-Kit-(CCKW)&c=Satellite Components&sku=
> 
> I used Amazon and Solid Signal for illustrative purposes only. There are many places to purchase these and other items for your DirecTV system. There is a great amount of information about the supported method but one of my recommendations is a great resource that no one should ignore. *Very Old School!!!*:wizardhat


Dumb question, but is this the same wired CCK as you linked at Solid Signal? If so $50 isn't too rich for my blood to go to DECA.


----------



## kiljoy

Scott Kocourek said:


> Many times a simple restore network defaults will fix the issue, other times I've had to reboot the receiver but betwwen those two I've always been able to get the network working with whole home.


Went ahead and tried both, didn't work.


----------



## veryoldschool

kiljoy said:


> Dumb question, but is this the same wired CCK as you linked at Solid Signal? If so $50 isn't too rich for my blood to go to DECA.


That is the same DECA. You'll need more for your receivers "and" you need to have a SWiM system with the green labeled splitters for everything to work.


----------



## veryoldschool

kiljoy said:


> Went ahead and tried both, didn't work.


The next thing is to try the factory reset on the router [after you find the login and password it reverts back to].


----------



## kiljoy

Yeah, I'll try the factory reset soon. I don't have green splitters, I have the white DirecTV-branded ones (though I read here at the time of the green rollout that the white seemed to work fine). I'll be honest and tell you that if I end up getting the DECA equipment I probably won't swap out the splitters.


----------



## veryoldschool

kiljoy said:


> Yeah, I'll try the factory reset soon. I don't have green splitters, I have the white DirecTV-branded ones (though I read here at the time of the green rollout that the white seemed to work fine). I'll be honest and tell you that if I end up getting the DECA equipment *I probably won't swap out the splitters.*


Then I can be honest and tell you that you'll have maybe 15 dB more loss to deal with to get DECA to work.

Since your splitters are the old type, your SWiM most likely is too, so figure to also get a bandstop filter to go between the splitter and the SWiM.


----------



## kiljoy

Ouch, that big a difference? I guess I'd best get this ethernet thing working because swapping out splitters will probably be impossible.


----------



## allenn

If you are using MAC filtering in your router, make sure the MAC addresses for the DVRs are in the routers list.


----------



## kiljoy

I fixed the problem.

I have no idea why it happened, but the router stopped dolling out the reserved IPs to the DVRs. It showed them connected and under the correct reserved IPs but when you went to Settings > Network Setup > Advanced Setup on the DVRs, it showed an address beginning with 164.254. which is an internal IP that gets assigned when the DHCP fails.

When I tried manually entering the expected IP into the field it would attempt to connect and go back to a random 164.254 address. The resolution was to remove the reservations and delete the leases for the MAC addresses in the router. Then I ran Restore Defaults on both DVRs which forced the router to reassign new IPs to the DVRs and both acquired a real internal IP (as shown in Advanced Setup) and whole-home worked.

Thanks for your help, guys!


----------



## bishoptf

Wanted to post and get some opinions on an upcoming install that is scheduled for next week. A little background, I have been doing small sats since they come out and for the most part have always done most of my installs, since I am picky and most techs that they send out are not, anyway I am a network designer by day, so lets say my internal network is quite interesting, lol. 

Currently I have an hr20-700 (with off air antenna) and hr22-100 with MRV in unsupported mode, I was originally on the initial beta and just signed up and have been running ever since, solid no issues. I currently do not have any multi-switches or swim, although it appears in their system it shows that I do. I have the slime-line dish with 4 coax's and have 2 going to hr20 and 2 of them going to my hr22.

Now I was offered and I am going to upgrade my hr20 with an hr 34, I am after the more tuners since I have kids and we sometimes have recording conflicts. Now I have read and read and think I understand most of the pieces but wanted some clarification and verification that I am thinking correctly. 

I told the D* CSR that I did not have swim, even though the system said I did, so he noted that they would note that in the system, since I need swim for the hr34. The tech will probably want to install a swim8 but I am wanting a swim16 in case I want to add an additional receiver down the road the swim8 will not be able to handle the additional tuners. Will this be an issue, or something I should call them about now before the tech comes out?

MRV, I understand the tech will probably want to do a standard deca installation, attach one to the hr22 and cck on the hr34, but from my reading I do/will not need the cck on the hr34 since it can do both. My question is do I need the deca module on the hr22, what I have yet to fully read and understand is with the HR34 will it do MRV over the ethernet or only do it over the coax? I have read that the HR24 will turn off MRV if the ethernet is connected to the receiver but wondering since the hr22 does mrv out the ethernet can it talk to the hr34 via ethernet?

Why ethernet vs deca, just since it is solid and I can repair, correct fix ethernet much quicker then trying to figure out what is going one with deca modules etc....in the end if I need to go with deca I will, but was wondering if it would work with ethernet...

Sorry for the long post ..Thanks


----------



## veryoldschool

bishoptf said:


> Wanted to post and get some opinions on an upcoming install that is scheduled for next week. A little background, I have been doing small sats since they come out and for the most part have always done most of my installs, since I am picky and most techs that they send out are not, anyway I am a network designer by day, so lets say my internal network is quite interesting, lol.
> 
> Currently I have an hr20-700 (with off air antenna) and hr22-100 with MRV in unsupported mode, I was originally on the initial beta and just signed up and have been running ever since, solid no issues. I currently do not have any multi-switches or swim, although it appears in their system it shows that I do. I have the slime-line dish with 4 coax's and have 2 going to hr20 and 2 of them going to my hr22.
> 
> Now I was offered and I am going to upgrade my hr20 with an hr 34, I am after the more tuners since I have kids and we sometimes have recording conflicts. Now I have read and read and think I understand most of the pieces but wanted some clarification and verification that I am thinking correctly.
> 
> I told the D* CSR that I did not have swim, even though the system said I did, so he noted that they would note that in the system, since I need swim for the hr34. The tech will probably want to install a swim8 but I am wanting a swim16 in case I want to add an additional receiver down the road the swim8 will not be able to handle the additional tuners. Will this be an issue, or something I should call them about now before the tech comes out?
> 
> MRV, I understand the tech will probably want to do a standard deca installation, attach one to the hr22 and cck on the hr34, but from my reading I do/will not need the cck on the hr34 since it can do both. My question is do I need the deca module on the hr22, what I have yet to fully read and understand is with the HR34 will it do MRV over the ethernet or only do it over the coax? I have read that the HR24 will turn off MRV if the ethernet is connected to the receiver but wondering since the hr22 does mrv out the ethernet can it talk to the hr34 via ethernet?
> 
> Why ethernet vs deca, just since it is solid and I can repair, correct fix ethernet much quicker then trying to figure out what is going one with deca modules etc....in the end if I need to go with deca I will, but was wondering if it would work with ethernet...
> 
> Sorry for the long post ..Thanks


If you're replacing the HR20 with a HR34, then a SWiMLNB will be used, as you're within the 8 tuner limit. They don't future proof your system with a SWiM-16.
You like ethernet, so you can keep it. The HR34 doesn't disable its internal DECA like the other models do, so you may need to have a bandstop filter added to block the DECA signal.


----------



## bishoptf

veryoldschool said:


> If you're replacing the HR20 with a HR34, then a SWiMLNB will be used, as you're within the 8 tuner limit. They don't future proof your system with a SWiM-16.
> You like ethernet, so you can keep it. The HR34 doesn't disable its internal DECA like the other models do, so you may need to have a bandstop filter added to block the DECA signal.


But that means they are gonna pull the four wires coming off the dish out from my house, or leave them hanging....I don't want to go down that path, why not just add the swim8 instead of the LNB option....I have four good lines already installed and working...I understand about the future proof, but I would think a swim8 would be about the same, correct?


----------



## inkahauts

"bishoptf" said:


> Wanted to post and get some opinions on an upcoming install that is scheduled for next week. A little background, I have been doing small sats since they come out and for the most part have always done most of my installs, since I am picky and most techs that they send out are not, anyway I am a network designer by day, so lets say my internal network is quite interesting, lol.
> 
> Currently I have an hr20-700 (with off air antenna) and hr22-100 with MRV in unsupported mode, I was originally on the initial beta and just signed up and have been running ever since, solid no issues. I currently do not have any multi-switches or swim, although it appears in their system it shows that I do. I have the slime-line dish with 4 coax's and have 2 going to hr20 and 2 of them going to my hr22.
> 
> Now I was offered and I am going to upgrade my hr20 with an hr 34, I am after the more tuners since I have kids and we sometimes have recording conflicts. Now I have read and read and think I understand most of the pieces but wanted some clarification and verification that I am thinking correctly.
> 
> I told the D* CSR that I did not have swim, even though the system said I did, so he noted that they would note that in the system, since I need swim for the hr34. The tech will probably want to install a swim8 but I am wanting a swim16 in case I want to add an additional receiver down the road the swim8 will not be able to handle the additional tuners. Will this be an issue, or something I should call them about now before the tech comes out?
> 
> MRV, I understand the tech will probably want to do a standard deca installation, attach one to the hr22 and cck on the hr34, but from my reading I do/will not need the cck on the hr34 since it can do both. My question is do I need the deca module on the hr22, what I have yet to fully read and understand is with the HR34 will it do MRV over the ethernet or only do it over the coax? I have read that the HR24 will turn off MRV if the ethernet is connected to the receiver but wondering since the hr22 does mrv out the ethernet can it talk to the hr34 via ethernet?
> 
> Why ethernet vs deca, just since it is solid and I can repair, correct fix ethernet much quicker then trying to figure out what is going one with deca modules etc....in the end if I need to go with deca I will, but was wondering if it would work with ethernet...
> 
> Sorry for the long post ..Thanks


I'd let them set you up with deca. There's is no real downside for you, worst case scenario, you do as vos suggests latter, and remove the deca at the HR22 and replace it with a band stop filter and use Ethernet only.

They will also use a cck. You can always disconnect that and hook up the Ethernet to the HR34, since it will bridge the system to your network that way as well, and then have an extra spare part. If you are networking guru, I'd guess you have all kinds of spare parts around, and I don't think it ever hurts to have spare parts.

As for worrying about working on a deca system if an issue arises, hey, vos is always around!  seriously, ask here and someone has probably dealt with any situation.

And I wouldn't worry about a swim16 for future proofing. If Yeager upgrade with another reciever that pushes your tuner number past 8 they will include a swim16 at that time.


----------



## veryoldschool

bishoptf said:


> why not just add the swim8 instead of the LNB option....?


Cost.
The LNB retails for $80-90, where the SWM8 is $120
The SWM8 is only used when the world direct dish needs to be combined.


----------



## inkahauts

"bishoptf" said:


> But that means they are gonna pull the four wires coming off the dish out from my house, or leave them hanging....I don't want to go down that path, why not just add the swim8 instead of the LNB option....I have four good lines already installed and working...I understand about the future proof, but I would think a swim8 would be about the same, correct?


Just have them do some nice wire mantnice for the wires, and then it won't look any different than if they where being used.


----------



## bishoptf

veryoldschool said:


> Cost.
> The LNB retails for $80-90, where the SWM8 is $120
> The SWM8 is only used when the world direct dish needs to be combined.


Yeah I know its about cost, so being anal like I am, I will probably end up pulling the two wires out, or coiling them up out of the way above the drop celing, since correct me if I am wrong, but the only way to go past 8 tuners requires the swim16 and that requires four wires, correct?


----------



## veryoldschool

bishoptf said:


> Yeah I know its about cost, so being anal like I am, I will probably end up pulling the two wires out, or coiling them up out of the way above the drop celing, since correct me if I am wrong, but the only way to go past 8 tuners requires the swim16 and that requires four wires, correct?


Yep, just tuck them away for future use.


----------

