# Challenge to DIRECTV



## edpowell (Feb 19, 2008)

I have been with DirecTV for 14 years, and am now thinking of switching to FIOS/TIVO. The reasons are well known to everyone in this forum:

1) The new software performs so poorly that the entire experience is completely frustrating. Delays between pushing remote control buttons and the actions resulting from those presses can be 2->3->5 seconds.
2) 30-second skip no longer works reliably (through digital ad insertion)
3) The Guide no longer works reliably. I have large blank spots in the guide beyond 24 hours. Rebooting presents me with a different guide filled with holes.
4) Recording series no longer works reliably. I have to constantly monitor my "To Do List" each night before prime time to ensure that my scheduled recordings are correct.

I have no idea why these problems were created by DIRECTV, when they had perfectly good software six months ago, and quite frankly I'm past caring. They've had six months to fix it and they haven't. But I have a lot of shows recorded that I still need to watch, so my final decision to switch will be put off until June.

I realize than many of you think I should upgrade from my current HR21Pro to the latest HR34 for $400 + $50 installation (at least). I realize that many of you have gotten a friendly CSR to give you a discount. You must realize that this *never* happens to me--no one *ever* gives me a discount on anything, no matter what I say. So this upgrade route is $450 staring me in my face, and no guarantee that the software will work any better on the HR34.

Switching to FIOS/TIVO will also cost $400 for the new TIVO Premier Elite, plus another $80 for a second TIVO Premiere for the bedroom. The Premiere Elite has similar specs to the HR34, but with 4 tuners instead of 5. It can play programs across my gigabit wired ethernet network without a lot of crazy and expensive Connection Kit contraptions. [I realize many DIRECTV customers do not have wired gigabit ethernet, by why punish those of us who do?]. The FIOS/TIVO service is also slightly cheaper per month (when bundled with my existing internet/phone service) than is DIRECTV. The TIVO software is impeccably written, and performs brilliantly.

So, since I know people at DIRECTV read this board, I want to publicly issue them a CHALLENGE, if they want to keep me as a customer:

By June:
1) ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR SOFTWARE
2) ANNOUNCE A PLAN TO FIX IT, INCLUDING A TIMETABLE

They don't even have to fix the problem by June, just acknowledge the problem and present a plan to fix it. That action alone will restore much of the goodwill that has been lost over the last six months. After all, admitting one has a problem is the first step towards recovery.

I want to stay with DIRECTV, I really do. I like DIRECTV, and I have a lot invested in DIRECTV equipment. But I can't stay unless the problems are fixed. I don't want credits, discounts, promotions, or any premium channel free for 3 months. I JUST WANT THE SOFTWARE TO WORK.

Does anyone really believe I am out of line with this challenge?

--Ed.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

edpowell said:


> Does anyone really believe I am out of line with this challenge?
> 
> --Ed.


I'm afraid you're out of line demanding a "timetable". All these DVRs are nothing more than little computers. There's no way someone writing and testing code can tell you when they'll be done.

And D* won't admit to a problem because Dish would beat them over the head with it and someone would wind up filing a lawsuit.


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## Kerry (Jul 18, 2008)

edpowell said:


> I have been with DirecTV for 14 years, and am now thinking of switching to FIOS/TIVO. The reasons are well known to everyone in this forum:
> 
> 1) The new software performs so poorly that the entire experience is completely frustrating. Delays between pushing remote control buttons and the actions resulting from those presses can be 2->3->5 seconds.
> 2) 30-second skip no longer works reliably (through digital ad insertion)
> ...


They had good (old) software that was at least fast and less buggs that this new CRAP sofware they have now. Total crap slow and ruins a perfectly fast hr34 and returnes it to crappy hr21 speed. What a wast. get it togther turkey(directv)i mean


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

I was a vocal critic of the HR2x DVRs for quite a while. I'm currently using primarily HR24-500s and an HR20-700. I do a lot of recording (far more than I can actually watch) and haven't noticed any of the issues you described. I'm not implying that you're imagining things - just that I haven't had the same experience lately. 

I would suggest maybe trying to get an HR24, but I know that might be money out of your pocket and would likely start a new 2 year commitment. 

Others here will know better than I, but I bet if you can get your HR21 diagnosed as the problem then DirecTV might send you a luck-of-the-draw replacement with no new commitment. 

It would at least be worth trying a different piece of hardware before switching services if you can do so without a new commitment.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

edpowell said:


> The TIVO software is impeccably written, and performs brilliantly.


Have you ever used a Tivo Elite? I can tell you, if you have the HD interface turned on, it is *NOT* fast, its actually slower than my HR34 for menu and guide functions, plus, it has been over a year and a half, and the UI is still not finished. Switches between HD and SD (with the associated time required for the TV to resync).

While I share your frustration with the apparent lack of speed promised by the HD GUI from DirecTv, the Tivo is not a cure, although it is pretty quick if you leave the HD menus turned off, but then you lose several functions.

One plus for the Tivo, you can copy the programs off it to your HTPC server if you want to.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

cover said:


> I would suggest maybe trying to get an HR24, but I know that might be money out of your pocket and would likely start a new 2 year commitment.


The OP appears to be a fan of owning the equipment outright so their only commitment is the dollar difference IF they manage to find a buyer for something most don't want to own.


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## edpowell (Feb 19, 2008)

Davenir, thanks for your review of the Tivo premiere software. I have extensive experience with the previous Tivo software, as practically everyone I know has it, and I've used it a lot. I have no personal experience with the new software, I am just reading reviews. I appreciate the comment.

Harsh, I don't really care about owning versus leasing. It's all about the large hard drive for me. I bought the HR21Pro at a time when it had the largest hard drive. I'd trade it for an HR24 in a moment if I thought the HR24 was going to perform better. SolidSignal lists the HR24 for $200, so I'm not sure whether that's the right approach over the HR34. I suppose I care about cost as much as anyone, but I'm not a person who wants to invest lots of time wheedling Directv into giving me a discount. I just want a box that works properly. I would hesitate to sell my owned HR21Pro on ebay--how could I inflict it on some poor unsuspecting n00b? There's no upside in hurting someone that way for a few measly dollars.

I appreciate the feedback, especially from those of you who have an HR34 that seems to work properly.


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## tds4182 (Jul 17, 2003)

I've never heard of the Tivo Elite. The top lever Tivo now marketed is called the Premiere. I do not own one of them but do have two Tivo HD dvrs. One is an HD XL the other is a Tivo HD. Both are very quick to respond to remote commands and work flawlessly.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

edpowell said:


> Davenir, thanks for your review of the Tivo premiere software. I have extensive experience with the previous Tivo software, as practically everyone I know has it, and I've used it a lot. I have no personal experience with the new software, I am just reading reviews. I appreciate the comment.
> 
> Harsh, I don't really care about owning versus leasing. It's all about the large hard drive for me. I bought the HR21Pro at a time when it had the largest hard drive. I'd trade it for an HR24 in a moment if I thought the HR24 was going to perform better. SolidSignal lists the HR24 for $200, so I'm not sure whether that's the right approach over the HR34. I suppose I care about cost as much as anyone, but I'm not a person who wants to invest lots of time wheedling Directv into giving me a discount. I just want a box that works properly. I would hesitate to sell my owned HR21Pro on ebay--how could I inflict it on some poor unsuspecting n00b? There's no upside in hurting someone that way for a few measly dollars.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback, especially from those of you who have an HR34 that seems to work properly.


Right now I would still shy away for the HR34. Some aren't having problems and some are.
Since you're starting from a point of frustration, I'd wait until more of the HR34 is sorted out.

Now I haven't really had the problems you've been. I had a HR21-200 when they first came out and it was only slightly slower than my HR20s. The 20s lasted a good five years, but I've since moved on the the HR24-500s and just haven't had any problems with them either.

If you really want to try another round/chance with DirecTV, I'd get beyond the first level of customer service and see what they'll do for the HR24.
Between the two HR24-500s and a H25-500 with whole home, it really works well.
Changing channels takes all of about one second longer than my TV does off its antenna.


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## jkal25 (Aug 27, 2007)

I see your delays as well Ed. I'm a 11 year subscriber, and like you, it's getting harder and harder. I see the remote delay on my HR20-700 and my HR24-100, and it's killer. When I turn a receiver on, I can not change channels, I just can't. I press 2-5 on the remote, it changed to channel 2, then channel 5, I try again, same thing. It seems worse at the top of an hour, or when a receiver is just turned on. I had this years ago before the HD upgrade, but it's much, much worse now. It wasn't always this way either, it seems real bad over the past couple months.

I'm not ready to throw down a gauntlet yet, but every day that goes by makes me more frustrated. Tonight was enough to get me to look here for any other experiences, and I'm glad I did.

I work in IT, so I hesitate to call them and say "My receiver's slow"... It's like people calling and saying their Internet is slow... It take a lot of digging to get to the root cause, but maybe I should at this point. Has anyone called this issue in and what have you gotten for any response?

I'm curious what you finally decide. I don't have the FIOS card to play in my area...

Thanks.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jkal25 said:


> I see the remote delay on my HR20-700 and my HR24-100, and it's killer. When I turn a receiver on, I can not change channels, I just can't. I press 2-5 on the remote, it changed to channel 2, then channel 5, I try again, same thing. It seems worse at the top of an hour, or *when a receiver is just turned on.*
> 
> Thanks.


When the receiver is first turned on, I can see how there may be a delay. Do you turn your TV on at the same time too?
Within the first few mins [really seconds here], things need to settle down before I even think that they would be slow.
I normally leave mine on the channel I expect to watch in the morning before I turn it off.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I don't see DirecTV accepting your challenge... I'm sure they don't enjoy having DVRs that can't keep up with the user. They have apparently been this way on and off to some degree from day one. I know my HR22s sucked from day one 3 years ago....

They had their chance at a fresh start with the HR34 but sadly it looks like at least for some it suffers many of the same issues. If they didn't fix it with all new hardware on the HR34 I'm not sure they have the technical ability and/or the budget to ever fix it.

I'm guessing that management is ok with current performance level as long as the sub numbers keep growing. If, or should I say when, it hurts the bottom line you can bet your behind that the problems will be fixed! Until then they seem to have the attitude of why spend money to correct the issues when we'll have more than enough new subs to replace the people that give up and leave. It all comes down to the money.

I'm sure DirecTV management thanks their lucky stars that no one (well almost!) signs up without a 2 year commitment. Can you imagine what would happen if, like many cable systems, DirecTV subs could just call at any time and cancel their service? Talk about the bottom line taking a hit!

Keep adding things that marketing can use... Pandora etc... That will help add subs.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

I have a challenge - We go a week without multiple threads being started complaining about speed.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> I have a challenge - We go a week without multiple threads being started complaining about speed.


That would be nice wouldn't it!? Maybe some day soon DirecTV will resolve the trouble and the threads will stop.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Mike Greer said:


> That would be nice wouldn't it!? Maybe some day soon DirecTV will resolve the trouble and the threads will stop.


Surely you jest. There will always be those who have something to complain about.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tds4182 said:


> I've never heard of the Tivo Elite. The top lever Tivo now marketed is called the Premiere. I do not own one of them but do have two Tivo HD dvrs. One is an HD XL the other is a Tivo HD. Both are very quick to respond to remote commands and work flawlessly.


Behold:

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-premiere-elite/index.html


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

cover said:


> I was a vocal critic of the HR2x DVRs for quite a while. I'm currently using primarily HR24-500s and an HR20-700. I do a lot of recording (far more than I can actually watch) and haven't noticed any of the issues you described. I'm not implying that you're imagining things - just that I haven't had the same experience lately...


I'm with you, my HR22 is performing better then ever. Not saying its perfect, but decent. And my HR34 is very fast, since the HD GUI release. I'm just hoping things don't change with future releases that are designed to fix the performance issue others are experiencing.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

MysteryMan said:


> Surely you jest. There will always be those who have something to complain about.


Although there are some, the number of threads on this site with frivolous complaints are few IMO. The vast majority of "complaining" threads are rooted in legitimate issues (some more severe than others). I see far more unabashed defending of D* in threads with legitimate complaints than I see people starting threads with frivolous complaints.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> I have a challenge - We go a week without multiple threads being started complaining about speed.


I suggest that this be approached a different way:

How about DIRECTV solving the issue for those who have it? Suspending, marginalizing, ignoring or denying the problem isn't going to solve it. It may not have manifested for many (or it may have but they're soft-pedaling it) but for those who are beset, it is a very real and often debilitating problem.

I bet DIRECTV isn't going to deny the "Black Theme" movement for very long. Sometimes they just need a little help in prioritizing.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jkal25 said:


> I see your delays as well Ed. I'm a 11 year subscriber, and like you, it's getting harder and harder. I see the remote delay on my HR20-700 and my HR24-100, and it's killer. When I turn a receiver on, I can not change channels, I just can't. I press 2-5 on the remote, it changed to channel 2, then channel 5, I try again, same thing. It seems worse at the top of an hour, or when a receiver is just turned on. I had this years ago before the HD upgrade, but it's much, much worse now. It wasn't always this way either, it seems real bad over the past couple months.
> 
> I'm not ready to throw down a gauntlet yet, but every day that goes by makes me more frustrated. Tonight was enough to get me to look here for any other experiences, and I'm glad I did.
> 
> ...


In another thread about "slowness" the other day I asked for patience and "clarity" when posting about "slowness". How you can tell what anyone's talking about when all you've got to go by is "My HR is slow" is beyond me.

Many folks have posted about calling and trying to get a new/used replacement, but they seem to be stonewalling until the issues with the new firmware are fixed.

Rich


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Rich said:


> In another thread about "slowness" the other day I asked for patience and "clarity" when posting about "slowness". How you can tell what anyone's talking about when all you've got to go by is "My HR is slow" is beyond me.
> 
> Many folks have posted about calling and trying to get a new/used replacement, but they seem to be stonewalling until the issues with the new firmware are fixed.
> 
> Rich


Rich, do you really think everyone reads all the posts? Besides that, it would be like me saying, anyone that posts the words "DVR is Slow" is referring to the guide and menu taking 5 seconds+ to pop up, hitting record in guide and taking 5 seconds+ for orange circle to appear and keying in command on remote takes 5 seconds+ for the DVR to respond. If you don't mean that, please don't use the words "My DVR is slow". How many people are going to see that one post, in one of 10 threads about slow DVR's and then actually care what I ask them to do?

What they probably do is see the title of the thread, have an issue that sounds similar and they post about their slow DVR. And someone like me that does read all the posts, already knows what issues they are probably referring too.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> I'm with you, my HR22 is performing better then ever. Not saying its perfect, but decent. And my HR34 is very fast, since the HD GUI release. I'm just hoping things don't change with future releases that are designed to fix the performance issue others are experiencing.


Yup, I'd be worried about that too. Lucky now, but...

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> Rich, do you really think everyone reads all the posts? Besides that, it would be like me saying, anyone that posts the words "DVR is Slow" is referring to the guide and menu taking 5 seconds+ to pop up, hitting record in guide and taking 5 seconds+ for orange circle to appear and keying in command on remote takes 5 seconds+ for the DVR to respond. If you don't mean that, please don't use the words "My DVR is slow". How many people are going to see that one post, in one of 10 threads about slow DVR's and then actually care what I ask them to do?
> 
> What they probably do is see the title of the thread, have an issue that sounds similar and they post about their slow DVR. And someone like me that does read all the posts, already knows what issues they are probably referring too.


Just thought it was something that needed to be said. I've done a lot of troubleshooting in my life, with electrical equipment and with administration problems and I have a problem when someone is deeply concerned about an issue, but doesn't frame the details of the issue in a way that leads to a solution.

I know everyone isn't gonna read every post in every thread, but if some people do and write their complaints in such a way that they can be acted upon, perhaps other people will pick up on that.

Rich


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> When the receiver is first turned on, I can see how there may be a delay. Do you turn your TV on at the same time too?
> Within the first few mins [really seconds here], things need to settle down before I even think that they would be slow.
> I normally leave mine on the channel I expect to watch in the morning before I turn it off.


With respect VOS (sincerely), don't you think it's unreasonable to expect users to leave a STB on the channel they expect to watch in the morning.

This hasn't been an issue for the past couple of weeks, but there was a time in recent memory (and on this NR) when one of my HR24-500's would often be unresponsive for up to 4 minutes after powering on and then work normally after that. During that time, it wasn't just a matter of not being able to change channels - audio and video would freeze too. It hasn't done that in the past couple of weeks, but I'm at a loss to explain what has changed.

I suspect there are two issues at play with the general slowness that people are seeing. First, DTV produced underpowered hardware (CPU, memory, or both) - probably in order to cut costs. Second, they hurriedly added in many features that are, in my opinion, of dubious value without optimizing the software code to be as efficient as possible.

I can understand DTV's business reasons, but pretending that the HR24 and the HR21,22,23 boxes are equivalents seems ridiculous at this point. I bet a lot of customers would willingly pay more for an HR24 if DTV could guarantee that's what they'd actually receive.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cover said:


> With respect VOS (sincerely), don't you think it's unreasonable to expect users to leave a STB on the channel they expect to watch in the morning.


This was only how I use mine. I do this so if I wake up late, I can skip back in the buffer and catch anything I missed [on the morning news].

This wasn't to be some work-a-round, but might also be why I don't have remote problems because I'm not trying to change channels when I first turn on the receiver.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> This was only how I use mine. I do this so if I wake up late, I can skip back in the buffer and catch anything I missed [on the morning news].
> 
> This wasn't to be some work-a-round, but might also be why I don't have remote problems because I'm not trying to change channels when I first turn on the receiver.


Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying that.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

cover said:


> Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying that.


I also have problems with IR so I use RF because my Sony emits a lot of IR. This sort of settles down to some degree after it's been on a while, but I don't have to deal with it using RF.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

MysteryMan said:


> Surely you jest. There will always be those who have something to complain about.


Well.... If DirecTV ever fixes these troubles the threads will have to complain about something else!

I doubt we'll ever find out - DirecTV seems to be happy with current level of performance so the whining and complaining threads about 'slow' DVRs will continue....


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> That would be nice wouldn't it!? Maybe some day soon DirecTV will resolve the trouble and the threads will stop.


As I suggested elsewhere, we need a "DIRECTV Slow Receiver Complaints (Official Q2-12 Thread)." That way it gives the repeat complainers a central area to curl their fingers in anger as they type the same rhetoric repeatedly.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Well.... If DirecTV ever fixes these troubles the threads will have to complain about something else!
> 
> I doubt we'll ever find out - DirecTV seems to be happy with current level of performance so the whining and complaining threads about 'slow' DVRs will continue....


Yeah you're right... they don't care, that's why they never work on the software or have peo...oh wait a minute.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> As I suggested elsewhere, we need a "DIRECTV Slow Receiver Complaints (Official Q2-12 Thread)." That way it gives the repeat complainers a central area to curl their fingers in anger as they type the same rhetoric repeatedly.


I'd go for that. Just have a sticky thread. Don't see that happening as it is not the kind of press that DirecTV really wants!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Yeah you're right... they don't care, that's why they never work on the software or have peo...oh wait a minute.


I'm not suggesting they don't work on the software - obviously they do add all kinds of 'features'... Some valuable but many dorky little bits that, as suggested by others, are likely for marketing. I said "DirecTV seems to be happy with current level of performance" meaning they are fine with the sluggishness. I say that because these troubles have been around from the beginning. Some releases better than others but the 'sluggishness' seems ever present.


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## lucky13 (Nov 27, 2006)

cover said:


> I can understand DTV's business reasons, but pretending that the HR24 and the HR21,22,23 boxes are equivalents seems ridiculous at this point. I bet a lot of customers would willingly pay more for an HR24 if DTV could guarantee that's what they'd actually receive.


If DirecTV would make the recording security account-specific rather than device-specific, so we could continue to access our recordings on an external drive when a receiver is replaced, I'd pay to upgrade five of my DVRs.


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## jkal25 (Aug 27, 2007)

Rich said:


> Just thought it was something that needed to be said. I've done a lot of troubleshooting in my life, with electrical equipment and with administration problems and I have a problem when someone is deeply concerned about an issue, but doesn't frame the details of the issue in a way that leads to a solution.
> 
> I know everyone isn't gonna read every post in every thread, but if some people do and write their complaints in such a way that they can be acted upon, perhaps other people will pick up on that.
> 
> Rich


I actually agree Rich - That's why I haven't called them. What use is telling them I have something that's sometimes slow that I can't recreate. That's why I asked here if anyone else has called and what response they've gotten. I also wouldn't consider myself deeply concerned at this point. If I was deeply concerned I'd have changed providers at this point. I'm at the, going fishing and see what other people have to say, level of concern. At this point, I'm not asking people here for a solution (although if anyone has one  ) just more curious what other people see.



veryoldschool said:


> This was only how I use mine. I do this so if I wake up late, I can skip back in the buffer and catch anything I missed [on the morning news].
> 
> This wasn't to be some work-a-round, but might also be why I don't have remote problems because I'm not trying to change channels when I first turn on the receiver.


Thanks for the suggestion to help make some of this better. The receiver it hits me the hardest with is the bedroom, and I don't want to have the big blue glow on the HR20-700 when I sleep. I'm all for a work-around

I've tried to keep track of time of day, temperature in the rooms, and even the "top of the hour" and "when I turn it on" isn't 100% consistent. About 15 minutes after typing this last night, my HR24 that had been on for hours exhibited the same symptoms of pressing 2-5 on the remote, and a delay before anything happens, register the 2, change to channel 2, a second or two later, the 5 comes up, then it changes to channel five. About a minute of this, then it seems to clear up and I can get to channel 25, but I don't think the expectation of changing channels is too much.

I do have a large drive (1TB WD AV drive) connected to the HR20, but it's only 25% full, and the HR24 it happens on to has the stock drive about 80% full.

So my post was more intended to look for anyone saying similar things to see if it was possibly something isolated to my install, and curious what action those people decided to take, calling service, swapping to FIOS, dealing with it, whatever... The posting wasn't intended for someone to tell me "push this, do this, and problem solved". Ah, if it were that easy, these threads would be shorter for sure...

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm not suggesting they don't work on the software - obviously they do add all kinds of 'features'... Some valuable but many dorky little bits that, as suggested by others, are likely for marketing. I said "DirecTV seems to be happy with current level of performance" meaning they are fine with the sluggishness. I say that because these troubles have been around from the beginning. Some releases better than others but the 'sluggishness' seems ever present.


Those "features" are far from the only thing added and worked on. If sluggishness has been around from the beginning, then why is everyone blaming the HDGUI & other "features?" You (not *you *Mr. Greer) can't have it both ways. If it's always been around, why complain so much now? Shouldn't you just accept it and move on?


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## Jerry_K (Oct 22, 2006)

Rich,

In defense of many folks, how many have the training required to specifically define a "problem". Sure, I have had training in Kepner Tregoe processes, so can write a very specific set of what it is and what it is not. Of course, that would require a very detailed knowledge of the software and how it executes on commands. 

So for the poor soul who may be the worlds best chef, or the worlds best plumber, or whatever, they cannot describe the symptom in much more specific terms than it takes a long time to respond to a channel change command. 

The fact is it does take a long time to respond. Why and what to do to fix it is up to the folks in Rupert run software development over there in the country we were wise enough to throw out of here many years ago.

For example, in dumb search, when I enter a new character it takes many seconds for the list of potential matches to update. And when it does the list is not really very smart. With the DirecTiVo the list on the right updated as fast as I could enter characters and the list was a lot more likely to contain what I was looking for. I am pretty savvy and have no idea why it does not work quickly or why it does not list things in a logical order. I had to enter all the way through American the space and even G to get American Guns to display. Holy cripes. A bunch of American came up with just Amer, but not anything like American Guns. DUMB DUMB DUMB


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> As I suggested elsewhere, we need a "DIRECTV Slow Receiver Complaints (Official Q2-12 Thread)." That way it gives the repeat complainers a central area to curl their fingers in anger as they type the same rhetoric repeatedly.


I'd go for that too as long as the fanboys agree to stay out of it. Since you guys can't stay away from the ones that are started now, I don't imagine that would be the case though.

Most of the complaint threads have contained a good bit of detailed problem descriptions along with some justifiable venting. It is the posts from the DirecDefense League that are mostly inane rhetoric.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> I'd go for that too as long as the fanboys agree to stay out of it. Since you guys can't stay away from the ones that are started now, I don't imagine that would be the case though.
> 
> Most of the complaint threads have contained a good bit of detailed problem descriptions along with some justifiable venting. It is the posts from the DirecDefense League that are mostly inane rhetoric.


Below is from the "DirecTV denies..." thread. I said, "*The software is jacked up*, it's being worked on, and there's not much anyone can do." What's so hard to accept about this? But, I'm just a "fanboy" I guess.


sigma1914 said:


> We need 1 topic for all the complaining some people do repeatedly. It seems every topic is the same...
> 
> A newer or less active member posts about speed.
> Same members pile on about how the boxes suck.
> ...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cover said:


> With respect VOS (sincerely), don't you think it's unreasonable to expect users to leave a STB on the channel they expect to watch in the morning.


There was a time when we had to leave the HRs on all night to ensure they would play the next day. My 24s come on quite quickly, but if I leave my 20-700s untouched (just used as a server) for a few days it does take a bit of time for them to "wake up".



> This hasn't been an issue for the past couple of weeks, but there was a time in recent memory (and on this NR) when one of my HR24-500's would often be unresponsive for up to 4 minutes after powering on and then work normally after that. During that time, it wasn't just a matter of not being able to change channels - audio and video would freeze too. It hasn't done that in the past couple of weeks, but I'm at a loss to explain what has changed.


I didn't experience any of those problem on my 500s, but they do seem to be working with the HD GUI much better than they were a couple weeks ago. Don't understand why that would be, not a Geek (wish I was, I can hardly understand what's being said at times), but it seems as if the 500s seemed to decide to accept the GUI. It's been very noticeable the last couple days.



> I suspect there are two issues at play with the general slowness that people are seeing. First, DTV produced underpowered hardware (CPU, memory, or both) - probably in order to cut costs.


We've had many good arguments posted about the HRs contradicting what you think about the CPUs and the memory. Seemed good to me, but your argument seems good too. We do know the whole 21 series (21s,22s and the 23) was cheaper than the 20-700s to make.



> Second, they hurriedly added in many features that are, in my opinion, *of dubious value* without optimizing the software code to be as efficient as possible.


"Dubious value"? Pandora, YouTube and the many new apps and things that I never use or have better platforms for viewing or listening? How about unnecessary?



> I can understand DTV's business reasons, but *pretending that the HR24 and the HR21,22,23 boxes are equivalents seems ridiculous at this point.*


"Functionally Equivalent" is the correct phrase used by D* and it's...well, you know. Of course they're not equivalent, any more than a .22 rifle is equivalent to a Barrett sniper rifle. Altho they both have triggers and sights and a stock and fire bullets, they'll never be "functionally equivalent".



> I bet a lot of customers would willingly pay more for an HR24 if DTV could guarantee that's what they'd actually receive.


That, I don't know about.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> This was only how I use mine. I do this so if I wake up late, I can skip back in the buffer and catch anything I missed [on the morning news].
> 
> This wasn't to be some work-a-round, but might also be why I don't have remote problems because I'm not trying to change channels when I first turn on the receiver.


My work-around is not watching live TV. I never surf, gave that up when I first got my UTV DVRs. Sat TV just doesn't seem conducive to surfing. (An aside to *Doug Brott*, I really never surf....:lol

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I also have problems with IR so I use RF because my Sony emits a lot of IR. This sort of settles down to some degree after it's been on a while, but I don't have to deal with it using RF.


Why can't that problem be fixed? Seems to be kinda prevalent, judging from all the posts and threads about that issue. Makes me wonder what else is being emitted from the LCD sets.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lucky13 said:


> If DirecTV would make the recording security account-specific rather than device-specific, so we could continue to access our recordings on an external drive when a receiver is replaced, I'd pay to upgrade five of my DVRs.


We've been fighting that battle for years and nothing ever happens. Would be a wonderful thing to have.

But, I gotta wonder what kind of hell we'd pay for having it, NR wise.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rich said:


> Why can't that problem be fixed? Seems to be kinda prevalent, judging from all the posts and threads about that issue. Makes me wonder what else is being emitted from the LCD sets.
> 
> Rich


When I changed from a RPTV that had CRTs to this LCD, IR from the panel became a problem for my IR remote for my HTPC pickup. There are some settings under power saving with the Sony that seemed to help. Not sure there is anything on the DirecTV side that could help if the background IR levels are fairly high.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Jerry_K said:


> Rich,
> 
> In defense of many folks, how many have the training required to specifically define a "problem". Sure, I have had training in Kepner Tregoe processes, so can write a very specific set of what it is and what it is not. Of course, that would require a very detailed knowledge of the software and how it executes on commands.


You might have taken that post a bit differently than I meant it. My car mechanic always complains about people that come in to drop off their car because it "won't run properly" and leave. That's the kind of useless info I meant. Slowness is a comparative word that needs something faster to compare it to. In other words, you can't have "fast" without "slow".



> So for the poor soul who may be the worlds best chef, or the worlds best plumber, or whatever, *they cannot describe the symptom in much more specific terms than it takes a long time to respond to a channel change command.*


I'd consider that a pretty clear explanation of an issue. It doesn't have to be a terribly technical answer to get the message across, but it's gotta be more than "my HRs are slow". Slow how, what manner of slowness, see what I mean?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> When I changed from a RPTV that had CRTs to this LCD, IR from the panel became a problem for my IR remote for my HTPC pickup. There are some settings under power saving with the Sony that seemed to help. Not sure there is anything on the DirecTV side that could help if the background IR levels are fairly high.


Just spent a few minutes Googling IR and can't find much in the way of dangerous emissions related to IR. Not much known about it from the searches I did. Health-wise, I mean.

Rich


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Those "features" are far from the only thing added and worked on. If sluggishness has been around from the beginning, then why is everyone blaming the HDGUI & other "features?" You (not *you *Mr. Greer) can't have it both ways. If it's always been around, why complain so much now? Shouldn't you just accept it and move on?


Sigh. For the 100th time, all of the receivers have always been a little sluggish, but now too many of them have suddenly changed in their performance and are now extremely slow. They went from annoyingly slow to agonizingly slow. They went from usable to barely usable/unusable at times. This happened suddenly, and the change in speed was drastic, and it happened at the same time for all the affected boxes nationwide.

You are right in that D* has had problems with performance for six years, and never got around to solving them. They do, however, usually improve on them to the point where the boxes become usable again. For many, this is D*'s first major screw-up, and it has shaken their faith in D*. Until the boxes are almost fixed this time around, people have basic, reasonable questions. Does D* know there's a problem? How seriously are they treating it? Can they fix it? How soon will it be fixed? Why am I paying D* for this crappy service?

Of course, due to legal and financial reasons, D* can't share any of that. If D* acknowledges there's a problem, customers would demand their boxes be exchanged for free (even though we know it affects all models). They'd demand their ETFs get waived. They'd demand discounts in their service until the issue is fixed.

People are mistaking the silence and the long time it's gone on as a sign that D* doesn't care. It's really a sign of incompetence and CYA. It happens in all companies that screw up.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

To the OP: If you decide to go to FiOS and really like TiVO, then that's the way to go. If you're not firmly in the TiVO camp then I think you should check out the FiOS DVR. It gets a lot of bad press but I think it's really decent. 

I actually ordered a TiVO Premiere not long after they came out. I sent it back. Not at all impressed.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Below is from the "DirecTV denies..." thread. I said, "*The software is jacked up*, it's being worked on, and there's not much anyone can do." What's so hard to accept about this?


How about more extensive testing? Why not jack up the software *before* it's released? I think D* could have done those two things. Especially since they are paid by their customers to do just that.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

For those of you whose responses are essentially, "Stop complaining!"...

You probably shouldn't read these kind of threads because, in terms of responsiveness and performance, DIRECTV DVRs truly do suck.


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## Jerry_K (Oct 22, 2006)

If my DTV DVRs were half as good as either my DirecTiVo or Series 3 (the original) TiVo DVRs I would be pretty happy. As they are now they are about one tenth as good. So bad in fact we discussed again last night going back to the DirecTiVos and selling off the DTV DVRs. 

I cannot comment on the more recent and most likely less good TiVo Series. I know I did not want any of the HD models and searched for used real Series 3 when I expanded from three to five DVRs. Since then I suppose TiVo has made them even worse. Why is it that all companies seem to do that. Take a superior product and ruin it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Reaper said:


> DIRECTV DVRs truly do suck.


They just don't for everyone, which is sort of the problem.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> They just don't for everyone, which is sort of the problem.


Exactly. I'll be the first to say that the HR2x series used to suck - a lot. HR20s sucked for a while when I got them (and I was not an early adopter). HR24s had some issues when I first got them (and I was not an early adopter). But most of the issues I had early on have been resolved.

Right now, I'm mostly using HR24s and occasionally an HR20 and have no problems that rate as more than a minor annoyance from time to time.

I could wish for the unified playlist to be a little quicker and some operations like deleting a show to be a little snappier. But I'm probably an outlier with 2 TB drives on the boxes I use most and about 7 GB of storage combined with WHDVR, making my unified playlist rather lengthy.

I have an HR21 and an HR22 in spare rooms, but almost never use them so am not qualified to comment on their speed. Mother-in-law has an HR22 and has complained about its speed. It did seem very sluggish to me, so I don't mean to belittle anyone's complaints about their performance.

And, though one could argue that a subscriber shouldn't have to pay for a new box to get decent performance, the simplest answer for many may be just to get an HR24 from SolidSignal or another reseller. It's hard for me to have too much sympathy about spending $200 on a DVR every few years to keep up when I still remember spending $800 on an HR10-250 that is now essentially worthless.

My opinion right now is that the DirecTV DVRs - and the HR24s in particular - are the worst DVRs available except for all the other ones.


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

Rich said:


> T
> 
> "Dubious value"? Pandora, YouTube and the many new apps and things that I never use or have better platforms for viewing or listening? How about unnecessary?
> 
> Rich


You're right, Rich. I didn't mean to make value judgments about Pandora and YouTube as a whole (regardless of my personal feelings)  . But I agree with your point that these are unnecessary on a DirecTV DVR, especially when they cause problems with the core functionality or delay fixing problems. And, though I don't really care much about these services, I also have a number of other and better platforms which practically ensure I'll never use a DirecTV box to access them. Since I quite unintentionally have better platforms for these, it may be a safe bet that most users also have better platforms.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"Jerry_K" said:


> So for the poor soul who may be the worlds best chef, or the worlds best plumber, or whatever, they cannot describe the symptom in much more specific terms than it takes a long time to respond to a channel change command.


Ok, I've owned a few DVRs in my life. The HR22 is the slowest. My Zenith PVR230 was the worst, but it was faster than the HR22.

Here's my definition of slow: If I can push a button, wait two seconds, and get no response from the DVR, that is unacceptable. If I have to push a button five times before it is accepted by the DVR, that is unacceptable. If I try to input a 3-digit channel number and only the third digit is received and acted upon, that is unacceptable. I have all of these problems with the HR22. My DTVPal is instant - there is no wait for anything, never a doubt that my command has been accepted, and I never need to push a button twice because the first press was missed. That is how a product should work, and anything less is broken.

This may not be a technical enough answer for those who want to defend the DirecTV DVRs. But I don't think my expectations are unreasonable. If the commands were accepted but execution was delayed, I could probably live with it. But to never know if a button press was received, because response time is so variable and frequently not accepted, is worse than when I used a dial-up modem and had key presses delayed by 5 seconds - at least then, I knew I'd get a response eventually... I'm tired of pushing a button harder and harder, hoping that if I just push the button hard enough enough times, it will do what I'm asking it to.

My Hopper comes today.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Reaper said:


> For those of you whose responses are essentially, "Stop complaining!"...
> 
> You probably shouldn't read these kind of threads because, in terms of responsiveness and performance, DIRECTV DVRs truly do suck.


You are entitled to your opinion but stating "DirecTV DVRs truly do suck" is far from fact. My HR22-100 was slow but performed flawlessly until July 2011. When it became clear the issues I was having with it wern't correctable DirecTV replaced it with a HR24-500. I now have two of them. As I have posted on other threads both have the latest software, are set with Native on and are connected to A/V receivers via HDMI cable. Channel changes between HD channels takes 2-3 seconds. Channel changes between SD and HD channels takes 3-5 seconds. Menu search/scrolling options are immediate after entering command. That's very acceptable performance in my opinion.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cover said:


> You're right, Rich. I didn't mean to make value judgments about Pandora and YouTube as a whole (regardless of my personal feelings)  . But I agree with your point that these are unnecessary on a DirecTV DVR, especially when they cause problems with the core functionality or delay fixing problems. And, though I don't really care much about these services, I also have a number of other and better platforms which practically ensure I'll never use a DirecTV box to access them. Since I quite unintentionally have better platforms for these,* it may be a safe bet that most users also have better platforms.*


A very good bet that would be. Anyone with a Net connected BD player has all the apps they could ever need and everyone of them I have seen has a better way of using YouTube or Pandora. All I ever wanted was something better than a VCR, not a multi-function STB.

Rich


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## JerryMeeker (Sep 20, 2007)

While I certainly understand why the OP is frustrated, I find it strange that the problems he reports are not experienced by everyone. I certainly have seen the slow response issue (more so with my HR21-700 than with my two HR24-500's). But I have never seen issues with 30-second skip, guide data, or with the reliability of series recording. Is it possible that there might be an underlying cause that affects the OP only?

I recently replaced an HR23 that had a failing hard drive. The old hard drive (a 1TB upgraded drive) had only 30% free space left. I temporarily replaced the failing drive with the original drive while I was waiting on the new HR24 that I ordered. With the fresh drive, my HR23 was noticeably faster. I say this to remind users that hard drive capacity and reliability issues can be a contributor to DVR performance. If I have learned anything in my 18 years as a DTV customer, it's how to trouble-shoot issues! And, I like the overall DTV experience enough to be somewhat patient as the issues are worked out.


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## jmpfaff (Dec 13, 2004)

Responding to too many separate messages to quote the originals....

I have an HR22 and an HR23. Both are slow, but the HR23 is significantly slower than the HR22. In fairness, the HR23's hard drive is fuller than the HR22's hard drive, but both are less than 50% full. (Hate having to continually clean them up manually, by the way)

My definition of slow:
I press a combination of number keys corresponding to a channel. Could be 2, 3, or 5 keys (the five key combo being 678-1 for my HD RSN). The box freezes for 3 to 10 seconds...then changes to a channel that is a subset of what I hit (e.g. 206 results in a change to 20 followed by the non-existent channel 6; or a change to 2 followed by the non-existent 06; or channel 2, followed by channel 0, followed by channel 6). And where there are multiple changes described....each has a 3 - 10 second pause. 

It seems that any channel combination involving a 6 is more prone to this than combinations that don't involve a 6. But the fact that I go to a lot of channels involving a 6 may mean this is observation bias and not a fact.

This was a problem before the HD GUI.....but it is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH worse since the HD GUI. And the channel change lag was never more than 3 seconds before the HD GUI.

I have tried swapping remotes between my HR23 and my H24. No difference on either box. I've also played with remote IDs, changed batteries, and taken several other steps described in these forums. (To be clear...the H24 is fantastic, absolutely crisp with no delays, instantaneous channel changes)

I work in IT....I'm not going to call the help desk and complain about slowness. I've been on the receiving end of many of those calls. In fact, as one of the "expert" troubleshooters in my company....a lot of those calls get sent to me. They suck, and are almost impossible to resolve. I trust that DirecTV employees monitoring this board will tell their engineers that they have a problem and work it from there.

However, if I had to make a guess, I would say this is most likely a RAM shortage in the DVRs. A quantity of RAM which was more than sufficient to run the DVR software 2 years ago will suddenly be insufficient when challenged by an HD GUI and a whole bunch of new (and very nice, by the way) software features such as Pandora and YouTube.

This is why my company replaced all of its laptops when we went from Windows XP to Windows 7 -- because the new features need more RAM.

DirecTV needs to make a choice -- either start phasing out the older boxes which don't have enough RAM....or start allowing subscribers to select a specific box model and differentiating the software code/features between the boxes.

PS -- I'd happily pay for a pair of HR34s if someone convinced me that they didn't have these issues. But right now....I get the feeling HR34s have an equal degree of cheapness. And I'm not sure why I have to pay extra for the services I already pay for, but that is a different conversation.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

JerryMeeker said:


> I have never seen issues with 30-second skip...


30skip as opposed to 30slip, is an unsupported feature, that requires a keyword search to activate.
There are some commercial inserts that don't work with the skip coding. For me they're rare, but there. When I find I can't skip I use FF to get through the commercial.


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## Rtm (Oct 18, 2011)

HR24 and H24 are good the rest of the older boxes in this house are **** but I luckily don't use any of them picked up H24 for about 100 on solid signal and HR24 for about $130 on eBay.

I'd suggest that route.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Surely you jest. There will always be those who have something to complain about.


From what I read in these threads, DirecTV is making it fairly easy for people to find something to complain about.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

billsharpe said:


> From what I read in these threads, DirecTV is making it fairly easy for people to find something to complain about.


Lets face it, if D* wasnt giving them something easy to complain about, then people would come up with something anyway. This is the internet, the place where all anonymously gather to complain about anything and everything. Thats what it was invented for right?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

CCarncross said:


> Lets face it, if D* wasnt giving them something easy to complain about, then people would come up with something anyway. This is the internet, the place where all anonymously gather to complain about anything and everything. Thats what it was invented for right?


Ha! I'm not anonymous! If DirecTV wasn't making it so easy to complain I likely wouldn't even know about dbstalk!:lol:


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm guessing that management is ok with current performance level as long as the sub numbers keep growing. If, or should I say when, it hurts the bottom line you can bet your behind that the problems will be fixed! Until then they seem to have the attitude of why spend money to correct the issues when we'll have more than enough new subs to replace the people that give up and leave. It all comes down to the money.


Mike you have hit the nail on the head.

Folks, if you don't like your DIRECTV DVR change providers. DIRECTV has no interest in fixing them and you will get nothing but grief here from the staunch D* supporters who think you are imagining things or far too demanding.

Time to move on.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

No, there are definitely speed issues, but I wouldn't say DirecTV has no interest in fixing them. It's possible that it's just not an easy fix without possible bugs of its own. It's also possible that it doesn't affect every configuration, which can complicate matters.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Anyone leaving either service for equipment reasons, please be sure to make that clear to the CSR you speak with. Otherwise, your "protest" will have no effect on the development of better hardware and software.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Mike Greer said:


> Well.... If DirecTV ever fixes these troubles the threads will have to complain about something else!...


That's a total misdirect. No one here is complaining for the sake of complaining, so get off that. We were not complaining until they screwed the pooch. They have been in a steep decline now for close to 2 years. THAT is what the complaining is about.

The sad part is that it will take a collapse of the subscriber base to inform change, unless they wake up, smell the propane, and do it themselves proactively, which is what they should do and what we must hope for. I don't know who the CEO is, but I want his head. Leo Apotheker (SP?) the village idiot who single-handedly scuttled the great and first silicon valley company Hewlett-Packard last year is Steve Jobs compared to whoever is running this train wreck at the moment. DTV is not Apple, its not Google, nor Amazon, nor eBay. Its RIM, all over again.

When a great and successful company (example: Research in Motion) with a great unmatched product (example: the Blackberry) rests on its laurels, someone with a better idea (example: Apple) will eventually fill the void with a better product (example: the iPhone) because nature abhors a vacuum. And RIM is dying, if not already dead, simply because they didn't listen.

But it still took 5 years, and in the case of DTV, that will be 5 years of suffering for those invested in their products, such as you and me. It's like trying to turn around an ocean liner doing 40 knots. They are where the economy was in 2008--on their way in to the void. The light at the end of that tunnel is still years away for them.

We all should just get out now while the gettin's good. Its hard, don't I know. Human nature says stay in the burning building until you absolutely can no longer stand the heat, and that is what everyone will do. Pity.

Polaroid.

Kodak.

MySpace.

Hostess.

Circuit City.

Best Buy. (its only just begun for them)

There's a lesson in each of them, and part of it is "adapt, or die".


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> 30skip as opposed to 30slip, is an unsupported feature, that requires a keyword search to activate.
> There are some commercial inserts that don't work with the skip coding. For me they're rare, but there. When I find I can't skip I use FF to get through the commercial.


True indeed. But unsupported is not the problem. The problem is that skip works by calculating a new number relative to the running timecode and jumps there. If you press "skip" when the timecode is 01:23:13:16 it calculates 01:23:43:16, and jumps non-linearly to that point (actually to the closest I-frame, which is why it is not accurately 30 seconds).

If DTV does a insert and replaces the running time code with the time code from the insert (the cheap and dirty easy way to do it), the number skip tries to calculate from (inside the insert) is not in the same universe, time-wise, as what the rest of the program is in. It tries to calculate a number, but the number 30 seconds down the road is simply just not there, so it aborts the process.

They could fix it by simply using regenerative time code. They might have to spend a buck or two, but they won't, so it won't get fixed. That is the entire idea of not supporting certain features--you don't have to spend money down the road to keep supporting them. Promise unmade; promise technically unbroken.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

jmpfaff said:


> ...if I had to make a guess, I would say this is most likely a RAM shortage in the DVRs. A quantity of RAM which was more than sufficient to run the DVR software 2 years ago will suddenly be insufficient when challenged by an HD GUI and a whole bunch of new (and very nice, by the way) software features such as Pandora and YouTube.
> 
> This is why my company replaced all of its laptops when we went from Windows XP to Windows 7 -- because the new features need more RAM.
> 
> ...


You are essentially right. It is a matter of trying to do too much with too little. Too many features, too large of graphics for the HD GUI to be served in a timely manner, too little RAM, too much VM paging, too slow of a microprocessor. Their eyes are bigger than their stomachs, as my mother used to say. They have grandiose plans and no infrastructure to support them. The current hardware, and especially the older hardware, is severely underbuilt for the tasks they have in mind. Something's got to give, and it turns out to be performance. Its a classic cluster-&@#%.

Also, maybe too few brain cells and too little vision. DISH used to be the bush-league company. Oh, how that worm has turned.:nono2:


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

peano said:


> Mike you have hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Folks, if you don't like your DIRECTV DVR change providers. DIRECTV has no interest in fixing them and you will get nothing but grief here from the staunch D* supporters who think you are imagining things or far too demanding.
> 
> Time to move on.


I think they try to fix things and when they do, the next release sometimes brings the issues back. Since the last couple HD GUI updates, my DVR's have been working well. Just hope the next release doesn't change that. And none of the issues have been big enough for me to give up all the HD sports I get: NFL ST, NHL CI, NFLN, NHLN and the rest of the HD sports channels.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

peano said:


> Mike you have hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Folks, if you don't like your DIRECTV DVR change providers. DIRECTV has no interest in fixing them and you will get nothing but grief here from the staunch D* supporters who think you are imagining things or far too demanding.
> 
> Time to move on.


LOL! Your zoo right! All those staunch supporters are also the same ones that D* must be giving them free or discounted DVRs, Nomads, Decas, etc.

Look at their posting and comments in the CE forum. Its becomes obvious after a while. Kickbacks, what ever you want to call it, its here. These guys are getting discounts I bet as testers and what nots. You never see them ripping or REALLY comp laming about their service or DVRs. Its starting to be a infomercial here. But , its the only source for info and there are some good guys here.

Now, is D* perfect, hello no and I have had issues. So I tired Uverse. I liked it, but no better than D* and I thought D* had slight, slightly better PQ. I still with D* for now, because i don't want to loose all my recordings.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

TomCat said:


> True indeed. But unsupported is not the problem. The problem is that skip works by calculating a new number relative to the running timecode and jumps there. If you press "skip" when the timecode is 01:23:13:16 it calculates 01:23:43:16, and jumps non-linearly to that point (actually to the closest I-frame, which is why it is not accurately 30 seconds).
> 
> If DTV does a insert and replaces the running time code with the time code from the insert (the cheap and dirty easy way to do it), the number skip tries to calculate from (inside the insert) is not in the same universe, time-wise, as what the rest of the program is in. It tries to calculate a number, but the number 30 seconds down the road is simply just not there, so it aborts the process.
> 
> They could fix it by simply using regenerative time code. They might have to spend a buck or two, but they won't, so it won't get fixed. That is the entire idea of not supporting certain features--you don't have to spend money down the road to keep supporting them. Promise unmade; promise technically unbroken.


nah, they rather spend their resources banning jailbroken iPads :nono2:


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

TomCat said:


> That's a total misdirect. No one here is complaining for the sake of complaining, so get off that. We were not complaining until they screwed the pooch. They have been in a steep decline now for close to 2 years. THAT is what the complaining is about.


I believe we are in agreement here!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> 30skip as opposed to 30slip, is an unsupported feature, that requires a keyword search to activate.
> There are some commercial inserts that don't work with the skip coding. For me they're rare, but there. When I find I can't skip I use FF to get through the commercial.


Sadly 30slip doesn't work correctly over MRV.... Isn't that supposed to be supported? The auto-correct is screwed and not consistent.

This isn't new with the HDGUI update - it has been that way since I can remember.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Sadly 30slip doesn't work correctly over MRV.... Isn't that supposed to be supported? The auto-correct is screwed and not consistent.
> 
> This isn't new with the HDGUI update - it has been that way since I can remember.


:shrug: I've been on 30skip since it was first available. When I find a commercial that doesn't skip, I FF through it.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

veryoldschool said:


> :shrug: I've been on 30skip since it was first available. When I find a commercial that doesn't skip, I FF through it.


Sorry - now that I think about it - I'm talking about the autocorrect coming out of FF... Works fine if you're watching a recording on the local DVR but doesn't over MRV. The longer you fast forward the bigger the auto correct. Even to the point of backing up past 1 or 2 full commercials!


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

TomCat said:


> That's a total misdirect. No one here is complaining for the sake of complaining, so get off that. We were not complaining until they screwed the pooch. They have been in a steep decline now for close to 2 years. THAT is what the complaining is about.
> 
> The sad part is that it will take a collapse of the subscriber base to inform change, unless they wake up, smell the propane, and do it themselves proactively, which is what they should do and what we must hope for. I don't know who the CEO is, but I want his head. Leo Apotheker (SP?) the village idiot who single-handedly scuttled the great and first silicon valley company Hewlett-Packard last year is Steve Jobs compared to whoever is running this train wreck at the moment. DTV is not Apple, its not Google, nor Amazon, nor eBay. Its RIM, all over again.
> 
> ...


That....along with the following:

"You are essentially right. It is a matter of trying to do too much with too little. Too many features, too large of graphics for the HD GUI to be served in a timely manner, too little RAM, too much VM paging, too slow of a microprocessor. Their eyes are bigger than their stomachs, as my mother used to say. They have grandiose plans and no infrastructure to support them. The current hardware, and especially the older hardware, is severely underbuilt for the tasks they have in mind. Something's got to give, and it turns out to be performance. Its a classic cluster-&@#%.

Also, maybe too few brain cells and too little vision. DISH used to be the bush-league company. Oh, how that worm has turned."

...is perhaps the most cogent critical analysis, sans hysteria and hyperbole, that I have seen to date.

Too bad it is unlikely to see the light of the day where it counts. Thanks for taking the time to precisely state what should be obvious to D*. Alas, they are unlikely to "get it", before it is way too late.

You, Sir TomCat, are guilty of being prematurely correct. There's not much of a prize for that, other than a bushel basket of derision.

This sort of reminds me of the Emperor with no clothes. How dare you!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

But they aren't losing subscribers, they are gaining. They went from 19.2 million at the end of 2010 to 19.9 in 2011 in the US (a larger gain than 2009-2010) and from 8.9 to 11.9 in Latin America if you include Sky Mexico. Profit and revenue was up for every quarter.

Frankly, I'm excited to see to see what's in store for this year.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> But they aren't losing subscribers, they are gaining. They went from 19.2 million at the end of 2010 to 19.9 in 2011 in the US (a larger gain than 2009-2010) and from 8.9 to 11.9 in Latin America if you include Sky Mexico. Profit and revenue was up for every quarter.
> 
> Frankly, I'm excited to see to see what's in store for this year.


I think TomCat was speaking for the long term. By the time (if it gets here), a company realizes that they missed to boat, it's too late. There is time for them to correct things...what I've been lamenting is I've seen very little progress in dealing with the core functions of the DVR. The boxes (older) are grossly underpowered. We (many in the user community) have been commenting on and noticing the problem for years. We were always promised a "silver bullet", just around the corner. It hasn't come. TomCat doesn't seem to think it's going to come. I don't see much evidence of it either.

Now, that's all the "speaking for TomCat" that I'm going to do.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> Frankly, I'm excited to see to see what's in store for this year.


Until then, many long for the days of yore when things (except CIG) worked more or less the way you would expect and consistently from box to box and from customer to customer.

If an update isn't making the experience better, it is most likely making it worse.

The lesson to be learned from this economic event is that the sweet spot lies closer to the middle than on the edges.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

veryoldschool said:


> :shrug: I've been on 30skip since it was first available. When I find a commercial that doesn't skip, I FF through it.


So their evil plan to force you to watch the commercials is not working out all that well for them.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TomCat said:


> So their evil plan to force you to watch the commercials is not working out all that well for them.


Having had a few "talks" with them, I wouldn't call it "a plan" at all, but an oversight that only bites me every so often, and the FF "gets me by".


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

You took that literally!

Sorry, I was just having a little fun at the expense of the conspiracy theorists.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

TomCat said:


> You took that literally!
> 
> Sorry, I was just having a little fun at the expense of the conspiracy theorists.


Maybe not as much. 
I did ***** to my contacts early on about it though.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

I came on here tonight to rant about the appalling slowness of my DVRs since the update that gave us the HD GUI. But then I found this thread and it seems all I need to say is "+1".

I've been a faithful DirecTV subscriber since 1999 but my frustration level has gotten so high lately that I am now seriously considering changing providers. There shouldn't have to be an elevated frustration level during my "relax and be entertained" time.

For me it is the lack of responsiveness of the remotes. When I press 2-7-6 it should go to channel 276, not channel 2, then channel 7, then channel 6.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Throckmorton said:


> For me it is the lack of responsiveness of the remotes. When I press 2-7-6 it should go to channel 276, not channel 2, then channel 7, then channel 6.


I know exactly what you are talking about. I was at my parents house this weekend (HR21) and had the same exact problem. My dad is seriously considering switching back to cable, as my mom is griping non-stop about not being able to change the channels.

Im going to swap the HR20 in the kitchen into their living room this weekend, as that box is a "little" faster. I told my dad to call DirecTv and tell em if they dont replace the HR21, he is going to bail, and see what they say.

Only reason he hasnt bailed yet, is he has Sunday Ticket and Extra Innings. I offered to set him up an Extra Innings over internet, but they only have 1.5M DSL, so I doubt it would work.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I'd try disabling the remote ID first

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2596954&postcount=1


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> I'd try disabling the remote ID first
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2596954&postcount=1


Okay, I gave that a try. We'll see...


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## kenw102 (Dec 3, 2011)

"mnassour" said:


> I'm afraid you're out of line demanding a "timetable". All these DVRs are nothing more than little computers. There's no way someone writing and testing code can tell you when they'll be done.
> 
> And D* won't admit to a problem because Dish would beat them over the head with it and someone would wind up filing a lawsuit.


mnassour,

I work in I.T. and I write and test code for a living. I can assure you that it IS reasonable to have a timetable for software development and testing. I get deadlines every day and often have no input into the "drop dead date". I WISH I could work on a project where I could tell the client "it will be done when I get it done". This is the reality of software development and DTV should be no different. 
To those who say that channel-changes are slow: I almost never use channel up or down -- I change channels from the guide.
BTW - I have been with DTV since 2002 and have thought about switching to Comcrap -- but the constant channel-shuffling and rate hikes along with the teaser rates keep me at DTV. As far as Dish is concerned, I really don't want to take the chance. "The grass is always greener on the other side because there's lots of crap over there" (I was paraphrasing).

Cheers


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"kenw102" said:


> To those who say that channel-changes are slow: I almost never use channel up or down -- I change channels from the guide.


Um... And?

To change channels from Fox Sports Net North to the Tennis Channel was about 5-7 seconds for me, a process that should take 2.

So you're saying it would be faster to press Guide, scroll through how many pages of channels, select my channel, and then wait for it to tune? Or press Guide 2-1-7 and then wait for it to tune? Whether I did that or typed the channel in directly, it was the same - when I selected the channel, 5-7 seconds later I could start watching. That is slow.

My new Hopper is insanely fast. I'm a heavy 30-second skip user, and I have to retrain myself to not wait a second after every skip. The skip is instant. And channel changes, no matter what the method, only take about 2 seconds, which is what one would expect with I-frame rates.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"kenw102" said:


> I work in I.T. and I write and test code for a living. I can assure you that it IS reasonable to have a timetable for software development...
> 
> As far as Dish is concerned, I really don't want to take the chance. "The grass is always greener on the other side because there's lots of crap over there" (I was paraphrasing).


It is reasonable to have deadlines. And people are somewhat understanding when it comes to computer software bugs. But few are reasonable if they go to watch their sports team on TV and their DVR didn't work. They will switch to something reliable - it has to work or you lose customers. Nobody leaves a television provider because a software update didn't come through on a specific date.

Dish has better DVRs, no doubt about it. And more basic channels in HD. But RSN HD coverage is spotty - it is not full-time, and if the satellite is full, you might get your local baseball, hockey or basketball game in SD once in a while. And the overall HD picture is slightly inferior. Then again, the SD picture is much better than DirecTV's. Is the grass greener? Depends on what you value most.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

kenw102 said:


> mnassour,
> 
> I work in I.T. and I write and test code for a living. I can assure you that it IS reasonable to have a timetable for software development and testing. I get deadlines every day and often have no input into the "drop dead date". I WISH I could work on a project where I could tell the client "it will be done when I get it done". This is the reality of software development and DTV should be no different.
> To those who say that channel-changes are slow: I almost never use channel up or down -- I change channels from the guide.
> ...


What you're not factoring in is what you probably deal with at work is internal communications....I also work in IT and deal with deadlines all the time, but we don't communicate most or any of those deadlines with customers. You may tell the customers that a fix is coming soon, but you dont give them exact dates and timelines.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> What you're not factoring in is what you probably deal with at work is internal communications....I also work in IT and deal with deadlines all the time, but we don't communicate most or any of those deadlines with customers. You may tell the customers that a fix is coming soon, but you dont give them exact dates and timelines.


Neither of these situations is unique.

I have been in situations where the deadline was not known to the customer and in situations where it was. I've also been in situations where the deadline was _specified_ by the customer.

None of these are unusual.

It is not unreasonable to hold a service provider to a deadline. If they fail to meet it, you find a different service provider.


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## kenw102 (Dec 3, 2011)

"sregener" said:


> Um... And?
> 
> To change channels from Fox Sports Net North to the Tennis Channel was about 5-7 seconds for me, a process that should take 2.
> 
> ...


I think that I have made my first and last post on this forum. Have fun children.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

kenw102 said:


> I think that I have made my first and last post on this forum. Have fun children.


Your choice, natch, but if you are quitting because of what one poster writes, that's too bad. You sound as if you have something to contribute.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TomCat said:


> So their *evil plan* to force you to watch the commercials is not working out all that well for them.


Gotta wonder what sort of plans they do have, if any. Also gotta wonder if their plans don't come to fruition if they just give up and start on something else.

Rich


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## HDSC (Jan 9, 2012)

kenw102 said:


> I think that I have made my first and last post on this forum. Have fun children.


WOW:
You are the kind of informative poster we need, but if they can run you off that quick, oops! Heck, that was mild compared to some post I've seen here. Good Luck and keep those times lines shifting to the right


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

"kenw102" said:


> I think that I have made my first and last post on this forum. Have fun children.


Wasn't trying to run you off, but I don't see how you debunk the criticism of slow channel changes by using the guide. If there is some magic way to get the channel changes down to 2-3 seconds, let us know. If they're in the 5-7 range, that is by definition slow.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

sregener said:


> Wasn't trying to run you off, but I don't see how you debunk the criticism of slow channel changes by using the guide. If there is some magic way to get the channel changes down to 2-3 seconds, let us know. If they're in the 5-7 range, *that is by definition slow*.


Let me ask how long does your TV take to tune to a HD channel through an antenna?
I ask this because at least half of your "5-7 sec" is what my TV takes from over the air.
I just rechecked changing from a SAT 1080i to another 1080i and was a "three count", so I'm not sure what your definition of slow really is.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Let me ask how long does your TV take to tune to a HD channel through an antenna?
> I ask this because at least half of your "5-7 sec" is what my TV takes from over the air.
> I just rechecked changing from a SAT 1080i to another 1080i and was a "three count", so I'm not sure what your definition of slow really is.


There is no definition of "slow" that fits into the context of what these complaints state. No comparisons to other DVRs. Except yours, because you know that "slow" demands a comparison. Most of the time we don't even know which models the posters are talking about.

A lot of the HRs being posted about are of the 21 series (that includes the 22s, there are two models of 22s, and the 23s). COMPARED to the 20-700s and the 24s ALL the 21s are slower and, barring a miracle always will be.

If I were running D* and I read complaints about "21s" being "slow" or my "20" is slow, I wouldn't be that worried about pleasing folks who can't specifically state which model HR (HRXX-XXX) is "slow". In order to have an impact on D*, these posts need to be very specific and clear. What functions are "slow"? That also demands clarification. Would you take a car to a mechanic and tell him, "My car is broken" and leave it to him to figure out? That's about what all these "My HR is slow" posts are worth. I think.

Rich


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Let me ask how long does your TV take to tune to a HD channel through an antenna?
> I ask this because at least half of your "5-7 sec" is what my TV takes from over the air.
> I just rechecked changing from a SAT 1080i to another 1080i and was a "three count", so I'm not sure what your definition of slow really is.


5 to 7 seconds is slow. Over 10 seconds is unacceptable.

I'm down to under 2 seconds with Fios channel changes, which is about the same as I get using my TV OTA rather than DVR.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

One example, yesterday, HR20-700. Approximately 15 seconds from the time I hit "info" until the info screen came up.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Rich said:


> If I were running D* and I read complaints about "21s" being "slow" or my "20" is slow, I wouldn't be that worried about pleasing folks who can't specifically state which model HR (HRXX-XXX) is "slow". In order to have an impact on D*, these posts need to be very specific and clear. What functions are "slow"? That also demands clarification. Would you take a car to a mechanic and tell him, "My car is broken" and leave it to him to figure out? That's about what all these "My HR is slow" posts are worth. I think.


Okay, since my HR22-100 is still sitting in my storage room waiting on DirecTV to send me a box to ship it back, you now have my model number.

I often flipped between Twins games on channel 668 (HD) and the Tennis Channel (217) when commercials would come up on one or the other. I would do this by direct channel input or Prev button on the remote. Press button. Count 1 second. DVR responds to command, channel banner changes. Count another second. Blank screen. Count 3-5 seconds. Picture appears.

Skipping 30 seconds: Press button. Count 1 second. Playback resumes. Note that I can't press to skip another 30 seconds until the first one has been processed or it is inconsistent in what happens.

Now, I know I-frames come down every 1-2 seconds on DirecTV and Dish, so I know that channel changes must take at least that long. Here's the thing. I have a new Hopper from Dish. I change channels and the new channel appears in that 1-2 second window. Every time. No delay on input from the remote - that's instant. Skipping 30 seconds is likewise instant. No need to wait - I can press skip 4 times as fast as I can and it skips exactly 2 minutes.

I don't know why channel changes must take so long on my HR22-100. I don't know why 30-second skip takes a second to execute. I do know that my DTVPal was faster and my Hopper is faster. A lot faster. So much so that I have retrain myself to enter things quicker because I don't have to slow myself down for a DVR to respond to my commands.

I know that I could tell when my HR22-100 was recording something because you could add a second or two to every remote response time. I've used my Hopper recording 3 things at once (one being 4 networks at the same time) and it was just as responsive and quick as if it was recording nothing.

You may be perfectly happy with the response time and consistency of your DVR. That is your right. But those of us who have grown increasingly frustrated with a DVR that would not respond, cursed our DVR when we try to change channels and it takes 8-10 seconds to get objectionable content away from our children's eyes, and have seen how fast their competitor's product does the exact same tasks, it is unconscionable for you to say that there's nothing to our complaints or that we are not being specific enough.

As hard as it might be to swallow, maybe DirecTV should just buy a Hopper and compare their DVRs to it. When they can honestly say, "I can't really tell a difference in response time and consistency between these two DVRs" then we can ignore complaints that customers have about the DVRs being too slow. When the difference is glaring enough as to not even require a stopwatch to know that the competition is always faster at every single task, then it isn't fair to say that customers aren't being specific enough.

What is clear is that DirecTV has lost me as a customer, probably forever. Read the Dish forums here and see how many people are so happy to have switched from DirecTV because their DVRs finally work the way they should. Educate yourself and realize that the DVR slowness issue is not a customer perception problem. It is a reality.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

raott said:


> One example, yesterday, HR20-700. Approximately 15 seconds from the time I hit "info" until the info screen came up.


I just woke up a 20-700 that I use primarily as a server. Gave it a minute or so to shake out the cobwebs and pressed the Info button. 12 seconds to get to the Systems Info screen. Now it's been running for a few minutes, let me try again...6 seconds. I've noticed and commented on this "Waking up syndrome" many times. All my 20-700s do the same thing if I let them sit for weeks on end.

I know I've got at least one, possibly two 20-700s that won't go to the the Systems Info screen by pushing the Info button. Might be the remotes.

Let me try it one more time...5 seconds.

I find 5 seconds to go to the SI page much more acceptable then having to use the Menu to get there.

I used a 20-700 with a 2TB EARS mounted externally on it.

Try this. Reboot twice quickly using the Menu Restart command and see if that brings the time down. Please. I'm really curious about this.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sregener said:


> Okay, since my HR22-100 is still sitting in my storage room waiting on DirecTV to send me a box to ship it back, you now have my model number.


OK, but you did get my point, no? There are very clear differences between models. HR20 is a good example. There is an HR20-700 and an HR20-100.



> I often flipped between Twins games on channel 668 (HD) and the Tennis Channel (217) when commercials would come up on one or the other. I would do this by direct channel input or Prev button on the remote. Press button. Count 1 second. DVR responds to command, channel banner changes. Count another second. Blank screen. Count 3-5 seconds. Picture appears.


I just did it with Quicktune and the Previous button. Just a touch over 3 seconds on both methods. That's slow. Used to be almost instantaneous.



> Skipping 30 seconds: Press button. Count 1 second. Playback resumes. Note that I can't press to skip another 30 seconds until the first one has been processed or it is inconsistent in what happens.


The only ways I've timed the Skip are watching fights and hitting the button twice between rounds and during innings during baseball games. The two skips between rounds are always right on and the timing on the baseball games seems to be about right. The Skip is nothing like the horrendous Auto-Correct. What an oxymoron that term is!



> I don't know why channel changes must take so long on my HR22-100.


Why do you keep the 22-100? I've got a 24-100 and I was reluctant to take that because of those last three numbers. (It's running like a champ, shockingly).



> I know that I could tell when my HR22-100 was recording something because you could add a second or two to every remote response time. I've used my Hopper recording 3 things at once (one being 4 networks at the same time) and it was just as responsive and quick as if it was recording nothing.


I've never seen recording doing anything adverse to my HRs, any of them. But nothing a 22-100 (or its ilk) does would really surprise me.



> You may be perfectly happy with the response time and consistency of your DVR. That is your right. But those of us who have grown increasingly frustrated with a DVR that would not respond, cursed our DVR when we try to change channels and it takes 8-10 seconds to get objectionable content away from our children's eyes, and have seen how fast their competitor's product does the exact same tasks, it is unconscionable for you to say that there's nothing to our complaints or that we are not being specific enough.


What I said in that post was not directed at you. I've read the whole thread and I've been confused about which HRs were being complained about and what was specifically wrong with them. I can't really say anything about channel changes, I usually watch only recorded content. I gave up on channel surfing before TiVos.



> As hard as it might be to swallow, maybe DirecTV should just buy a Hopper and compare their DVRs to it. When they can honestly say, "I can't really tell a difference in response time and consistency between these two DVRs" then we can ignore complaints that customers have about the DVRs being too slow. When the difference is glaring enough as to not even require a stopwatch to know that the competition is always faster at every single task, then it isn't fair to say that customers aren't being specific enough.


Do you really think D* didn't go right out and get a Hopper? Do you really expect D* to issue a press release and say, "We screwed up the GUI and it's affecting adversely many of our DVRs"?

Rich


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Rich, I was speaking of the show info screen. I will however try your test when I get home just to see what happens.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Sregener,

It's academic since you've left, but if you're switching between two channels during commercials, why weren't you using DLB instead of flipping channels. Major advantage, it's quicker and you don't lose the two buffers.

I have 2-HR20-700s, 2-HR22-100s, and a HR24-500 and while I don't flip channels a lot, I don't see the slowness that's described in this thread.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

Rich said:


> Why do you keep the 22-100? I've got a 24-100 and I was reluctant to take that because of those last three numbers. (It's running like a champ, shockingly).
> 
> Do you really think D* didn't go right out and get a Hopper? Do you really expect D* to issue a press release and say, "We screwed up the GUI and it's affecting adversely many of our DVRs"?


I kept the 22-100 because I was under contract. I started thinking about switching to a different service after my contract was up because my choices with DirecTV are to 1) ask for a new box (which would of course tie me to a new 24-month contract) and they just might send me ANOTHER 22-100! OR 2) Pay $200 to SolidSignal or another company who will promise to send me a 24-xxx model if I request it. My choice with Dish was to call them up, request and get a Hopper (in spite of being a single-room installation) get a $26/month discount for the first twelve months, and pay nothing up front. Yes, I still get the 24-month discount, but I know I'm getting a fast DVR for no money down. That's about a $450 swing in cost over the first year (second year I'll be saving $1/month, assuming no price flux) to stick with DirecTV, who sent me a 22-100 that has *never* worked right from the first day it appeared on my doorstep.

If the problem is really with specific model numbers, as you say, then DirecTV no doubt knows what those model numbers are, and which customers have them. They could choose any of the following possibilities:

1) Allow users to specify a model number for replacement instead of making us play roulette.
2) Notify users with troublesome receivers that they are working on the problem and will not charge an "Advanced DVR fee" every month until they fix it. Their losing $8/month would be incentive for them to fix it, and would mollify customers who are suffering.
3) Stop shipment of troublesome receivers to all customers immediately, and offer a free replacement to customers with them. There is no excuse for shipping out these boxes to new or existing customers.

Instead, they're losing customers like me, who've had satellite service only from DirecTV, starting in 1995.


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## sregener (Apr 17, 2012)

dennisj00 said:


> It's academic since you've left, but if you're switching between two channels during commercials, why weren't you using DLB instead of flipping channels. Major advantage, it's quicker and you don't lose the two buffers.


I hadn't heard of it is reason #1. Reason #2 is that frequently, one of my tuners was busy recording something else.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

sregener said:


> Ok, I've owned a few DVRs in my life. The HR22 is the slowest. My Zenith PVR230 was the worst, but it was faster than the HR22.
> 
> Here's my definition of slow: If I can push a button, wait two seconds, and get no response from the DVR, that is unacceptable. If I have to push a button five times before it is accepted by the DVR, that is unacceptable. If I try to input a 3-digit channel number and only the third digit is received and acted upon, that is unacceptable. I have all of these problems with the HR22. My DTVPal is instant - there is no wait for anything, never a doubt that my command has been accepted, and I never need to push a button twice because the first press was missed. That is how a product should work, and anything less is broken.
> 
> ...


Just in case you missed my post in another thread, I quoted it below. The link in that post takes you to a video showing the speed and performance of my HR22. Speed wise, I would say its on par with the Hopper video that you posted in that other thread.


RACJ2 said:


> Well, if you traveled like me and are only home from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon, its hard to do. So, I wasted time on my one full day home, to create a video of the HR22 performance and then uploaded it to YouTube and. I put my hand with the remote in front of the camera, so you doubting Thomas's couldn't say that I was not pressing the buttons at the same time that I said. So enjoy! [link]


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## Davedude (Nov 2, 2009)

I have been reading this forum for a couple of years now and I would say that the one subject that comes up the most (recently) is DVR / Receiver performance. I have been with DTV for over 10 years and have used a lot of different receivers from them, but I must say these 3 DVR's I have now are almost unusable. I have an HR21-700 and (2) HR22-100's and have used them for 2-3 years, with a great amount of frustration. Most often they do not respond in a timely manner to any remote commands. The four people in my household that watch TV complain about these DVR's on a regular basis. I have tried all the tricks mentioned in this forum and in the end, no improvement (we should not have to experiment). Actually, I would say that the performance is getting worse. So with the 100% disapproval in my house, I would say that DTV has a problem. I have Emailed and called DTV but I always get the same story, talk to a tech, restart and keep using the same old hardware or for a fee and a new 2 year contract we will upgrade your equipment (not sure if that will fix the problem though?). I want DTV to know I love their programming but with a delivery system like this, my family and I will have to go to some other service for our TV. 

Sorry for the rant, but I feel better now.


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

I echo your rant. Love the DirecTv service but hate these boxes - HR21s. I'm getting to where I want to call an independent retailer and get HR 24s and just eat the cost. The posts seem to indicate better performance with those. Is that correct? The two pigs I have are like using dial up for internet service, sometimes I have time to go make a cup of coffee before a channel change takes place.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

pappasbike said:


> I echo your rant. Love the DirecTv service but hate these boxes - HR21s. I'm getting to where I want to call an independent retailer and get HR 24s and just eat the cost. The posts seem to indicate better performance with those. Is that correct? The two pigs I have are like using dial up for internet service, sometimes I have time to go make a cup of coffee before a channel change takes place.


I paid $600 to get 3 HR24-500s. They were faster but not as fast as my old Dish Network DVRs. That is they 'were' faster... Until the HDGUI update then they sucked also. I wouldn't do it again. It seems to only be a matter of time before DirecTV does an update that screws things up.

Having said that I do have the latest NR and it is quicker, although not back to where it used to be. The bad news is that now I'm having random audio drop-outs and when I first turn it on it comes up in 720p until I change the channel.....

The killer.... They knew about these troubles, and more, BEFORE they inflicted it on us. Talk about a messed up way of running engineering! Thank god these people are not involved with anything that matters - like medical equipment, nuclear power plants or liquor stores!


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## pappasbike (Sep 19, 2006)

Well that convinces me not to go pay all that money and only get something that"may" be better. I feel like I'm using a 10 year old computer, it works but c'mon. I've seen videos from people with Dish boxes and I'm amazed how quick those are. Maybe the service isn't as good, I don't know, but Im really tired of these things. I had two HR 20s that first started exhibiting slowness issues as well as several others after a particular software update and were noisy as hell. I got those replaced with the 21s which are quieter but with the same and worse issues. That plus the increasing cost of all this makes me wonder whether it's even worth it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

pappasbike said:


> Well that convinces me not to go pay all that money and only get something that"may" be better. I feel like I'm using a 10 year old computer, it works but c'mon. I've seen videos from people with Dish boxes and I'm amazed how quick those are. Maybe the service isn't as good, I don't know, but Im really tired of these things. I had two HR 20s that first started exhibiting slowness issues as well as several others after a particular software update and were noisy as hell. I got those replaced with the 21s which are quieter but with the same and worse issues. That plus the increasing cost of all this makes me wonder whether it's even worth it.


Do what you think is best for you, though I've never had Mile's issues and my HR24s with the 05C8 are working fine.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

How are the HR34s?

Are they faster and more stable?


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

I wrote a review on the HR34 during the first 10 days it was released which was published in the news section of the HTGuys.com podcast website. Check out my review: http://www.htguys.com/news/2012/2/24/directvs-hr34-hd-dvr-with-rvu.html
I love the HR34 and highly recommend it.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

pappasbike said:


> Well that convinces me not to go pay all that money and only get something that"may" be better. I feel like I'm using a 10 year old computer, it works but c'mon. I've seen videos from people with Dish boxes and I'm amazed how quick those are. Maybe the service isn't as good, I don't know, but Im really tired of these things. I had two HR 20s that first started exhibiting slowness issues as well as several others after a particular software update and were noisy as hell. I got those replaced with the 21s which are quieter but with the same and worse issues. That plus the increasing cost of all this makes me wonder whether it's even worth it.


Not everyone has issues. Some of us don't and have even provided video proof. It's a slight risk. If you plan on staying 2 years, do it...or try for an owned HR24.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

VANBROTHERS1 said:


> I wrote a review on the HR34 during the first 10 days it was released which was published in the news section of the HTGuys.com podcast website. Check out my review: http://www.htguys.com/news/2012/2/24/directvs-hr34-hd-dvr-with-rvu.html
> I love the HR34 and highly recommend it.


I noticed you mention in the review being able to record 9 channels at once. Do you have a SWM-16?

I have a SWM-8 and 3 other STBs (HRs), one of which would be retired if I get the HR34. I was thinking I'd need to upgrad to a SWM-16 with the 9 total tuners. Yes?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Throckmorton said:


> I noticed you mention in the review being able to record 9 channels at once. Do you have a SWM-16?
> 
> I have a SWM-8 and 3 other STBs (HRs), one of which would be retired if I get the HR34. I was thinking I'd need to upgrad to a SWM-16 with the 9 total tuners. Yes?


If you have a SWM8, get a HR34 [five tuners] you can only connect another 3 tuners, so for nine you'd need a SWiM-16.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> If you have a SWM8, get a HR34 [five tuners] you can only connect another 3 tuners, so for nine you'd need a SWiM-16.


Yeah, that's what I thought. Thanks.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Personally I find the new national firmware for HR34 is really good. A lot of the residual issues have been fixed and it's acceptably speedy. Even RVU is much improved.


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Throckmorton said:


> I noticed you mention in the review being able to record 9 channels at once. Do you have a SWM-16?
> 
> I have a SWM-8 and 3 other STBs (HRs), one of which would be retired if I get the HR34. I was thinking I'd need to upgrad to a SWM-16 with the 9 total tuners. Yes?


Yes, with 9 tuners I had to have the SWM-16 installed. As I said in my review, I was surprised that all 9 tuners were able to record at the same time. I did noticed today that recorded material now works in the PIP mode and I notified the HTGuys. I talked to Case Management but they couldn't pin point when this was enabled, recent 0x54a release probable not or during our HD GUI update several weeks ago. It's not a feature I see using very often, if at all. Time will tell.....


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

HR-34 on the way. Be here Friday afternoon.

$149 less a $120 bill credit ($10/month for a year).


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## kosh56 (Sep 30, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Not everyone has issues. Some of us don't and have even provided video proof. It's a slight risk. If you plan on staying 2 years, do it...or try for an owned HR24.


Would you mind reposting a link for the video?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

kosh56 said:


> Would you mind reposting a link for the video?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

edpowell said:


> I have been with DirecTV for 14 years, and am now thinking of switching to FIOS/TIVO.
> 
> I want to stay with DIRECTV, I really do. I like DIRECTV, and I have a lot invested in DIRECTV equipment. But I can't stay unless the problems are fixed. I don't want credits, discounts, promotions, or any premium channel free for 3 months. I JUST WANT THE SOFTWARE TO WORK.
> --Ed.


Then go to Ebay and buy an HR24-500 there and then buy a 2 TB WD20EADS Drive and install it Internally and Be Done with It.

Mine are all Fast and I believe the reason why is that the HR24-500 has a Faster CPU with More RAM and the WD20EADS is a Faster Drive (7200 RPM) with a Larger Cache Buffer Area and all of those things make mine Fast and Reliable. 

Or call the Retention Department and see what they offer you when you say you are going to quit and move elsewhere.

That is their whole reason for existence and that is to keep you from leaving by offering you some kind of a deal.

Or Send a Polite Email to Ellen Filipiak's Office for Customer Service [email protected] and nicely state your problems and why you may be leaving.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Richierich said:


> Then go to Ebay and buy an HR24-500 there and then buy a 2 TB WD20EADS Drive and install it Internally and Be Done with It.
> 
> Mine are all Fast and I believe the reason why is that the HR24-500 has a Faster CPU with More RAM and the WD20EADS is a Faster Drive (7200 RPM) with a Larger Cache Buffer Area and all of those things make mine Fast and Reliable.


I don't want to open a can of worms, really. Especially since I just ordered an HR34 2 hours ago...

But:

I've been with D* since 1999 and currently pay $145 a month for the privilege of being regularly frustrated by my HR21s and HR20.

Should we _really_ have to pay yet more money just to get what we already pay dearly for to work as it is supposed to?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Throckmorton said:


> Should we _really_ have to pay yet more money just to get what we already pay dearly for to work as it is supposed to?


No you Shouldn't have to Pay More Money just to get what we already pay dearly for and should have but as he stated he wants to stay with Directv so I was just giving him OPTIONS and one of them was the above mentioned way of buying an HR24 and Installing a WD20EADS Internally.

Not recommended for everyone but I am Happy with my 5 HR24-500s which I Own so I could Replace the Internal Drive with a Faster Drive with a Larger Cache.

Should I have to do that? No but I thought it would help with the problems of Slowness and it indeed did do that and maybe Directv should Replace their DVRs with ones that have a Faster CPU with More RAM and Larger Faster Internal Drives with a Larger Cache.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Richierich said:


> No you Shouldn't have to Pay More Money just to get what we already pay dearly for and should have but as he stated he wants to stay with Directv so I was just giving him OPTIONS and one of them was the above mentioned way of buying an HR24 and Installing a WD20EADS Internally.
> 
> Not recommended for everyone but I am Happy with my 5 HR24-500s which I Own so I could Replace the Internal Drive with a Faster Drive with a Larger Cache.
> 
> Should I have to do that? No but I thought it would help with the problems of Slowness and it indeed did do that and maybe Directv should Replace their DVRs with ones that have a Faster CPU with More RAM and Larger Faster Internal Drives with a Larger Cache.


Okay, I can see that. Options are always good.

And again, I just ordered an HR34 for the same reason. It just annoys me a bit that I had to.


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## Directdude (May 3, 2012)

I just registered because of this thread. I've been with Direct TV for a very long time, left when I moved then I've been with them at this house since 99. I've had almost no issues with Direct TV and their customer service has been nothing short of excellent. With that said I'm SOOOOO frustrated with them over the past few months it stinks. As stated earlier I don't want free programming or a discount on my monthly bill, I just want my receivers to work. It took 3 weeks to get one up and running and it's slow. I went from a HR23-700 to a HR22-100 replacement. Now I need to run those bbc which I didn't have to do before and now I do. It runs nothing like the video that is shown here by sigman1914. Mine takes from 3-5 sec as much as 7-12 secs to load pages. Sometimes I hit menu or fast forward or change a channel the blue light blinks like it's going to do something and 20-25 seconds later the menu pops up. Now not all the time but most times it's around 5-7 seconds. I now have a slow rec. in the bedroom and while taking 3 weeks to get another replacement (long story) another receiver went down. Just say's searching for signal in 2 (771). Well after going thru tech support 2x they sent a receiver. Guess what, they send a HR22-100 without those bbc and same issue. So then I take my bbc from another room hook it up and guess what still doesn't work??? So then I take my receiver from another room hook it where I'm having issues to see if maybe I have a cable issue. Well it worked??? So they're sending me older receivers 2 aren't working and all they have coming to me now is some bbc's that aren't going to work. They are going to have a supervisor call me, but come on where is the support. They tried selling me a new receiver for like 399.00 and I was like huh???? I've had talks with other Direct TV subscribers in the area and they all said they feel as if Direct TV is slower. What are they doing? Do they have too many ppl on satelite? I'm going to let them know my frustration and see what they can do to get my system working and speed it up, if not I'm going to say goodbye and do what 3 of my neighbors did and go to fios. I have fios internet and phone now, but kept my direct tv, I might have to change this.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

Directdude said:


> I just registered because of this thread. I've been with Direct TV for a very long time, left when I moved then I've been with them at this house since 99. I've had almost no issues with Direct TV and their customer service has been nothing short of excellent. With that said I'm SOOOOO frustrated with them over the past few months it stinks. As stated earlier I don't want free programming or a discount on my monthly bill, I just want my receivers to work. It took 3 weeks to get one up and running and it's slow. I went from a HR23-700 to a HR22-100 replacement. Now I need to run those bbc which I didn't have to do before and now I do. It runs nothing like the video that is shown here by sigman1914. Mine takes from 3-5 sec as much as 7-12 secs to load pages. Sometimes I hit menu or fast forward or change a channel the blue light blinks like it's going to do something and 20-25 seconds later the menu pops up. Now not all the time but most times it's around 5-7 seconds. I now have a slow rec. in the bedroom and while taking 3 weeks to get another replacement (long story) another receiver went down. Just say's searching for signal in 2 (771). Well after going thru tech support 2x they sent a receiver. Guess what, they send a HR22-100 without those bbc and same issue. So then I take my bbc from another room hook it up and guess what still doesn't work??? So then I take my receiver from another room hook it where I'm having issues to see if maybe I have a cable issue. Well it worked??? So they're sending me older receivers 2 aren't working and all they have coming to me now is some bbc's that aren't going to work. They are going to have a supervisor call me, but come on where is the support. They tried selling me a new receiver for like 399.00 and I was like huh???? I've had talks with other Direct TV subscribers in the area and they all said they feel as if Direct TV is slower. What are they doing? Do they have too many ppl on satelite? I'm going to let them know my frustration and see what they can do to get my system working and speed it up, if not I'm going to say goodbye and do what 3 of my neighbors did and go to fios. I have fios internet and phone now, but kept my direct tv, I might have to change this.


Welcome to the site - I suggest you send a polite email to [email protected] about your current issue's. When was the last time you had a service visit? It may be about that time for a full blown plant inspection.


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## Directdude (May 3, 2012)

I want to say 12-18 months they came out and did a new install basicly. All new cables direct from box to dish and replaced dish. It's not a cable issue, it's a box issue. I proved this by putting a known good receiver where I'm having no signal issues and it works fine. As for the slow receivers I can't answer that. I hope they get me 2 new receivers and replace my current dish if this helps. I'll pay for new boxes, but I think 399.00 is out of line. I'm willing to spend 100.00 for each and call it a day and make a customer happy. Thank you for the email info. if I can't get it resolved with this supervisor phone call tomorrow I will email.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm Sure you can get it worked out - I'm thinking the $399 may have been for the HR34? but not really an issue you should get a service visit and with that possible new hr24 replacements fresh from the truck


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## Directdude (May 3, 2012)

We'll they actually called me tonight. I told them what was going on and they agreed something isn't right. They're going to send a service tech out on Friday. Maybe get 1 or both receivers replaced. Or fix the old ones??? But they called me back and are coming out. Hopefully this will fix my issues. woot woot. I'll let you know what they find.


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Directdude said:


> We'll they actually called me tonight. I told them what was going on and they agreed something isn't right. They're going to send a service tech out on Friday. Maybe get 1 or both receivers replaced. Or fix the old ones??? But they called me back and are coming out. Hopefully this will fix my issues. woot woot. I'll let you know what they find.


In the future I would like to suggest that you get in touch with the "Case Management" tech support team. This great top technical group specializes in "reoccurring" technical issues, HR34, Nomad etc. You will be assigned a phone number with a 4 digit pin good for 5 days of direct upper level tech support. They are very knowledgeable and helpful.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

just fyi there is no way to contact case directly...they are assigned for certain issues


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

wahooq said:


> just fyi there is no way to contact case directly...they are assigned for certain issues


EXACTLY!!!

You can't just call Directv and ask to talk to Case Management as it Ain't Gonna Happen!!!

They assign Case Management to Special Cases that they want to Monitor and Fix!!!


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Richierich said:


> EXACTLY!!!
> 
> You can't just call Directv and ask to talk to Case Management as it Ain't Gonna Happen!!!
> 
> They assign Case Management to Special Cases that they want to Monitor and Fix!!!


I talk to Case Management all the time. In fact I currently have 2 more day left on my 5 day pin from talking to them a few day ago. There are times when I talk to them and they will tell me my pin will expire and add another 5 days and a new pin. I know I called them at least 12-15 times getting info for my HR34 review that I wrote for the HTGuys podcast. My normal route without a pin is through Customer Retention with questions they can't answer. Sometimes when a Retention Rep can't help me get there and don't know the process, I just call back, but most of the time I have no problem. Most everything the HTGuy's cover dealing with DirecTV, I have sent it to them. If anyone here hasn't check out their weekly Home Theater podcast I highly recommend giving them a listen. I'm Bill Van from Virginia Beach and get mentioned on their podcast quite often.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

VANBROTHERS1 said:


> I talk to Case Management all the time.


Well, I Guarantee you that you can't pick up the phone and call Directv and ask for Case Management!!!

You may have gotten Lucky and once you get Assigned a Case Number then Yes you can call them with a Pin Number and get in touch with them but that is only with Exceptional Cases that Directv cares to Monitor and Fix!!!

It is Not as Easy as just asking to talk to a Customer Retention Specialist!!! :nono2:


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

VANBROTHERS1 said:


> I talk to Case Management all the time.


 DirecTV changes out the phone number every couple/few months, and the PIN dies within a week.
If "your problem" hasn't been resolved, they will give you the new numbers, but this shouldn't be thought of as a "normal customer service route".
Emailing Ellene gets you a call back to start a process like this.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> If "your problem" hasn't been resolved, they will give you the new numbers, but this shouldn't be thought of as a "normal customer service route".
> Emailing Ellen gets you a call back to start a process like this.


EXACTLY, EXACTLY (stated in my Best Jay Leno Voice Imitation)!!!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

VANBROTHERS1 said:


> I talk to Case Management all the time. In fact I currently have 2 more day left on my 5 day pin from talking to them a few day ago. There are times when I talk to them and they will tell me my pin will expire and add another 5 days and a new pin. I know I called them at least 12-15 times getting info for my HR34 review that I wrote for the HTGuys podcast. My normal route without a pin is through Customer Retention with questions they can't answer. Sometimes when a Retention Rep can't help me get there and don't know the process, I just call back, but most of the time I have no problem. Most everything the HTGuy's cover dealing with DirecTV, I have sent it to them. If anyone here hasn't check out their weekly Home Theater podcast I highly recommend giving them a listen. I'm Bill Van from Virginia Beach and get mentioned on their podcast quite often.


Have you posed questions here that haven't been answered?


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> Have you posed questions here that haven't been answered?


Good question. I have always found navigating through DBSTalk a bit difficult. Posting a question on the wrong page can get you a lot of negative feedback in the past. But maybe that has changed. I do plan to spend more time here in the future, that's for sure. I do check DBSTalk's home page daily for new info. I just got off the phone with a Case Management rep which interestingly recognized talking to me a few weeks ago. He happened to be the only CM rep I have talked to that didn't know about DBSTalk.com. I always mention DBSTalk and the HTGuys when speaking to them. He has since visited the sites. I have found that less than 25% of retention reps have heard of DBSTalk. Anyway, I ask him why I rarely have a problem connecting to his team and it seems I say the right things to retention to get there. I must say I do spend a lot of time talking to many retention departments like Cox Cable, Charter Cable, Verizon, Sprint etc. getting my friend and myself excellent price cuts, programming or both, I surprise myself how well I do. If you talk to DirecTV retention and other department as much as I do through the years you can't help but get good at it. DirecTV has always taken care of me "big time" and have noticed most all other providers are "now" willing to the same. It hasn't always been that way, but hay when it cost hundreds of dollars just to get a sub you definitely don't want to lose them, especially these days. And Btw I agree and was told it's not simple to get to Case Management but if you know what to say to get there well.......Oops CM rep didn't offer and I forgot to extend my Pin but that's OK..... I'll be posting more here and get my navigational skill tuned..... Question - I want to see a discussion on: Sync Pandora with other enabled Pandora boxes where do I go? I understand the Hopper can't do it either but was told it may be coming in a June update. I want Whole Home Pandora Music.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I believe an articulate and astute person can get very good technical help here, and save time on the phone, and keep CSRs free for other tasks. That's why I asked!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Whole home Pandora? It doesn't run on non-DVRs, but by my definition, we have that. Each box has to be set up, though.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Whole home Pandora? It doesn't run on non-DVRs, but by my definition, we have that. Each box has to be set up, though.


He probably meant having the same "stations" on each device he uses, which he's already got, if the HRs work the same as the BD players, Rokus, etc. do. I've only tried it on one HR and quickly decided that my BD players have a better interface, so I don't know if the stations are the same on each HR, but I'd be surprised if they don't mirror each other as they do on all the other devices I have Pandora on.

Rich


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Pandora Whole Home - What I and one of the HTGuy's podcaster Braden Russell have spent a lot of time trying to do is link/sync two Pandora enabled satellite (DirecTV and his Dish Hopper) set top boxes to play the same song at the same time in two or more rooms. There is a ton of value having essentially whole home music synced through out the home with existing DirecTV/Dish hardware.

If anyone know how to play the same Pandora song on say 2 HR24's please let me know and I'll pass it along to the podcasters.

Thanks to the guy that sent me an informative private message. I will have to find out how to reply to private messages. I could not see a way to reply, just his message. Maybe I didn't look close enough.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

VANBROTHERS1 said:


> Pandora Whole Home - What I and one of the HTGuy's podcaster Braden Russell have spent a lot of time trying to do is link/sync two Pandora enabled satellite (DirecTV and his Dish Hopper) set top boxes to play the same song at the same time in two or more rooms. There is a ton of value having essentially whole home music synced through out the home with existing DirecTV/Dish hardware.
> 
> If anyone know how to play the same Pandora song on say 2 HR24's please let me know and I'll pass it along to the podcasters.
> 
> Thanks to the guy that sent me an informative private message. I will have to find out how to reply to private messages. I could not see a way to reply, just his message. Maybe I didn't look close enough.


Perhaps you can quote said message if it's that informative. Just leave out the author ID.

I doubt that anyone can get any - Pandora, Slacker, etc. to play same song synched with another portal, unless they specifically have set up their service to do so. Can you do so via computers? I still doubt it.


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> Perhaps you can quote said message if it's that informative. Just leave out the author ID.
> 
> I doubt that anyone can get any - Pandora, Slacker, etc. to play same song synched with another portal, unless they specifically have set up their service to do so. Can you do so via computers? I still doubt it.


 Thanks for the reply. Ok then it's my understanding that we should refrain from using another persons name when posting here. That's cool.

Am I correct when saying there is a small group of Cutting Edge forum members here with direct contact with DirecTV engineers? And is the best place to let DirecTV software developers/engineers know what consumers would like to see in future software releases at DirecTV.com forums or on a specific tread here?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Perhaps you can quote said message if it's that informative. Just leave out the author ID.
> 
> I doubt that anyone can get any - Pandora, Slacker, etc. to play same song synched with another portal, unless they specifically have set up their service to do so. Can you do so via computers? I still doubt it.


I just tried to sync up two HRs and they won't do it. I kinda doubt you can do it with any devices, but I'll try two Sammy BD players later. I think what the final result will be is that each device will have the same stations (all my Net devices have the same Pandora stations on them), but will not play the same songs...just tried it with two Sammy BD players and two HRs playing the same stations and all had different songs on them. Seems impossible. Doubt that two computers would sync up, not even gonna try.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

VANBROTHERS1 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Ok then it's my understanding that we should refrain from using another persons name when posting here. That's cool.


Yup, Private Messages should stay private unless there's a good reason for sharing them and both parties agree. If you click on a member's user name, a box will open with options, one of which will allow you to PM the member.



> Am I correct when saying there is a small group of Cutting Edge forum members here with direct contact with DirecTV engineers? And is the best place to let DirecTV software developers/engineers know what consumers would like to see in future software releases at DirecTV.com forums or on a specific tread here?


That would be the way to get D*'s attention, but I think Pandora has something to say about that, too. I'm not sure many folks would be interested in syncing up devices to play songs thru-out the house, but you never know.

Rich


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> Perhaps you can quote said message if it's that informative. Just leave out the author ID.
> 
> I doubt that anyone can get any - Pandora, Slacker, etc. to play same song synched with another portal, unless they specifically have set up their service to do so. Can you do so via computers? I still doubt it.





Rich said:


> Yup, Private Messages should stay private unless there's a good reason for sharing them and both parties agree. If you click on a member's user name, a box will open with options, one of which will allow you to PM the member.
> 
> That would be the way to get D*'s attention, but I think Pandora has something to say about that, too. I'm not sure many folks would be interested in syncing up devices to play songs thru-out the house, but you never know.
> 
> Rich


 Thanks!! I am learning the do's and don't here among other things. 
Personally, I would love to have a whole home sound system for "free". And I believe most consumers best home sound systems are already connected to their TV's. Many people pay thousands of dollars for systems like Sonos and the technology already exists. Pandora and their partners would just have to implement a way to do this. I'm sure we will see it sometime soon.

If I want to open a new discussion say on "DirecTV's Message Board" system, how would I do it. I found it in search but was told it was old, over 6 months and I posted it there anyway. The web site Solid Signal has a great video review which I sent to the podcasters and while writing this I just got their reply back "Very cool". See what you think: 
http://blog.solidsignal.com/content.php/373-Exclusive-Video-Hands-on-with-DIRECTV-Message-Board


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## Directdude (May 3, 2012)

So I just wanted to let you guys know that it's all fixed. They sent a tech out, he took one look at my dish and said it's not correct. Now take it, nothing has touched the dish and two tech's came out 12-18 months ago and replaced everything. I got a signal in one room, but not the other I even switched boxes and it worked. We'll he took off the dish and two support arms, mounted a short arm directly to my roof. Did a d/l and now both boxes work perfect. I don't understand it, but it works awesomely. Oh and I do have a case mgmt worker with a pin code along with a follow up call tomorrow. So for the last year off and on issues and the last 2 months of direct tv not working it finally works. The only thing I think sux, is that they took my newer boxes for older generation boxes and it was the install the entire time. The tech even said all he had on the van was the older stuff like I had. You think it's too much to ask for 2 hr24? Anyways I'm much happier now.


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Directdude said:


> So I just wanted to let you guys know that it's all fixed. They sent a tech out, he took one look at my dish and said it's not correct. Now take it, nothing has touched the dish and two tech's came out 12-18 months ago and replaced everything. I got a signal in one room, but not the other I even switched boxes and it worked. We'll he took off the dish and two support arms, mounted a short arm directly to my roof. Did a d/l and now both boxes work perfect. I don't understand it, but it works awesomely. Oh and I do have a case mgmt worker with a pin code along with a follow up call tomorrow. So for the last year off and on issues and the last 2 months of direct tv not working it finally works. The only thing I think sux, is that they took my newer boxes for older generation boxes and it was the install the entire time. The tech even said all he had on the van was the older stuff like I had. You think it's too much to ask for 2 hr24? Anyways I'm much happier now.


 First you should have said fine to the older boxes at the time on the condition they will replace them with HR24's soon or swap them out at their place of business. Keep in mind third party installers get paid by the job. Now, I would call the installers directly and see what they can do for you. If their hands are tied, call retention.

You're obviously like me and love D* so by all means open your dialog with your appreciation for their service, let them know you are active on forums, mention any refer a friends, anything you can think of, you get my drift, be positive. 
At the end of your conversation with retention always let them know you appreciate working with the highest rated service provider support teams in the country. Personally I believe you have an excellent chance of getting your two HR24s. Downgrading set top boxes is not what D* is about. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> I doubt that anyone can get any - Pandora, Slacker, etc. to play same song synched with another portal, unless they specifically have set up their service to do so. Can you do so via computers? I still doubt it.


I downloaded the Pandora app to my iPod Touch and later my Android tablet. I got all my stations that had been set up on my computer as soon as I logged into my account on the devices -- essentially automatic.

I don't see much reason for having Pandora music on my HD TV. Of course I don't have a separate sound system connected to it.


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

Question to Pandora: Is Pandora and partners like DirecTV working on a way to link/sync one Pandora account with two set top boxes, like the DirecTV HR24's, so they will play the same song at the same time? Many feel a Pandora "Whole Home" music system through existing home setups would be great for Pandora and especially for it's users.

Pandora rep's answer: This is not something that is offered yet but thanks for the suggestion! We will keep it in mind as we figure out what new features to add to Pandora in the future.

I was hoping for a better answer and admit it's not for everyone but for me it would be really great especially when I'm working around the house and especially during parties.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

As there are already many different approaches to whole home distribution of audio, I'm not sure I see the attraction; especially as difficult as it is to sync digital sources.


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## Bill Van (Feb 12, 2008)

The Challenge to D* and Dish Network right now for whole home music is getting more buzz. If they could advertise that they "now" offer whole home music it could gain more subs interested in a "quality" whole home music experience. To get a better understanding where we are now, check out Gizmodo's article today:

http://gizmodo.com/5905695/stream-music-to-every-radio-in-a-housecheap


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Nice link! Once I started broadcasting in FM, though, I know eventually I'd want to ramp up to become a 1,000 mega watt guy....:nono2:

I believe Apple's AirPlay can do something similar over a LAN, but have never been interested in pursuing whole home audio, so to speak.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Ladies and Gents, it seems like this thread has gotten way off topic, so I'm closing it for now. Please feel free to start an appropriate thread on any of the topics discussed here.


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