# Windows 10



## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Forget Windows 9, onward to Windows 10!

I'm sure I'll be signing up for the tech preview tomorrow. It's going to be interesting, no more major versions, this version just keeps getting updated?

I'm actually excited about the little stuff in Rafael's blog.

http://withinrafael.com/new-experimental-console-features-in-windows-threshold/

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/30/6874549/windows-10-preview-screenshots-features


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> Forget Windows 9, onward to Windows 10!


The fact that it will be an even numbered version dooms it right out of the blocks -- and no, I'm not joking. Windows 2000 and Windows 98SE were the only even numbered Microsoft OS versions that didn't stink on ice.

DOS 2.x, 4.x and, to a lesser extent, 6.x sucked
Windows 2.x sucked very, very hard
The didn't bother to give version numbers to Me and Vista that both sucked
Windows 8 sucks

I'm waiting until they implement the features omitted from Windows Vista and later (primarily the WinFS database driven filesystem) before I look at upgrading anything Windows.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I've never used DOS 1 or 2, I started with 3.2.

So if they had named it Windows 9, it would be a good version? It's generally been the alternating versions.

And while Me was pretty bad, it was in a bit of a transition period over to the NT base.

And if Paul Thurrott's article is accurate, only x86 builds will be available tomorrow. I'll wait for x64.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> So if they had named it Windows 9, it would be a good version? It's generally been the alternating versions.


If they named it Windows 9, people's expectations would be much lower and I think that's going to be important.

I'm suspicious that the end result will be Classic Windows (somewhere between XP and Vista) built on the Windows 8 platform and it won't be significantly better than either.


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## John Strk (Oct 16, 2009)

I would have preferred Windows One as the name. I love Windows 8 and never had an issue with it. It's super fast, more secure, and stable. At least MS is bringing back some things to satisfy people that hate 8, miss their precious Start menu, or don't know how to use a new OS. At least for desktop users these features are welcome.

I'm really excited with the whole "One Product Family, One Platform, One Store" idea. Finally! Apps can be universal across all products. Can't wait to see the Windows Phone 8.1 features coming to Windows 10 like Cortana, Storage Sense, Wi-Fi Sense, and a Notification Center. PC's, tablets, Xbox One and phones all in sync! :biggthump


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

There's a rumor on what the real reason they didn't go with Windows 9 is.

That a lot of programs use a check for "Windows 9" and go to code for Windows 95/98, either for compatibility or to kick back an unsupported message.


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## B Newt (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm sticking with windows 7, until it's not supported anymore.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I prefer Windows 2015.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SeaBeagle said:


> I prefer Windows 2015.


IMHO, it needs to be something that is easy to formulate a web search for so people can seek valuable assistance (as opposed to whatever Microsoft support is).

The "One" concept was probably torpedoed by the questioning of the Xbox One naming.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

What doomed Windows 8 more than anything else was the TETRIS Metro start screen. Also, Microsoft tried to change too much when we are used to doing things a certain way under Windows. We have a computer, not a tablet.

I will download the ISOs from work later on.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

One of the cool things about the preview is that when you go into the Feedback program, you not only can send feedback, you can see others feedback and add a vote to it.

Windows 7 support ends at the end of 2019.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Mark Holtz said:


> What doomed Windows 8 more than anything else was the TETRIS Metro start screen. Also, Microsoft tried to change too much when we are used to doing things a certain way under Windows.


Metro was a major impediment, but not a show stopper. The show stopper was that everything about how you use Windows changed -- and not because it was better but I think they thought their partners could sell more books, classes and consulting.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> Windows 7 support ends at the end of 2019.


Extended support ends then but regular non-contracted support ends in January 2015; well before Windows 10 will be released.

Of course everything they fix in Windows 8 or 10 will probably also get fixed in Windows 7 by extension as they all have the same problems.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

That 2015 date really doesn't mean anything for end users other than it won't get newer versions of IE, DirectX etc. It's the extended support date that really matters.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

The Tech Version, for the adventurer, is available at their Insider Website.


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## Marlin Guy (Apr 8, 2009)

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/895dc71fe3/windows-10-everclear-album


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

harsh said:


> The fact that it will be an even numbered version dooms it right out of the blocks -- and no, I'm not joking. Windows 2000 and Windows 98SE were the only even numbered Microsoft OS versions that didn't stink on ice.
> 
> DOS 2.x, 4.x and, to a lesser extent, 6.x sucked
> Windows 2.x sucked very, very hard
> ...


Windows 1.0 was not a winner by any means. Windows 8.1 is actually pretty good now that you can boot directly to the desktop screen if desired. Some of the Metro apps are not bad -- Kindle Reader and Microsoft's Weather app are examples.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I began using computer before Windows was even thought of. DOS 2.0 was the big operating deal then. Windows 1 was nothing but a graphical file system.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

My first computer was a Vendex Headstart. I got it because it came package with software. Which at $2500, made it a great deal.










I remember it came with DOS, don't remember the version. It was around '84. I remember I had to use some 3rd party shell software [DESQview] to switch between programs. Then Windows 286/386 came out. The Headstart was a 286. Then came Windows 3 which was the game changer for MS.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

billsharpe said:


> Windows 1.0 was not a winner by any means. Windows 8.1 is actually pretty good now that you can boot directly to the desktop screen if desired. Some of the Metro apps are not bad -- Kindle Reader and Microsoft's Weather app are examples.


Windows 1.0 was little more than DOSshell (which still exists as Windows Explorer) that was considered a big improvement over doing things from the command line. It was no GEM to be sure.

Do app users put away their phones when using their computers? I don't understand the attraction to computer-based apps.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

harsh said:


> Windows 1.0 was little more than DOSshell (which still exists as Windows Explorer) that was considered a big improvement over doing things from the command line. It was no GEM to be sure.
> 
> Do app users put away their phones when using their computers? I don't understand the attraction to computer-based apps.


'Apps' are nothing more than programs that we've been using for years. Other than some of the 'tiles' providing active information (stock price, temperature, etc) it's nothing more that a different presentation of a menu.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dennisj00 said:


> 'Apps' are nothing more than programs that we've been using for years. Other than some of the 'tiles' providing active information (stock price, temperature, etc) it's nothing more that a different presentation of a menu.


While I've seen weather bugs and other widgets, I've never installed them.

I immediately turned off any Windows Sidebar gadgetry on computers I used.

Are apps on a computer in any was necessary (other than to try to keep computers relevant for those who don't really need them)?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Apps are programs. It's the same thing just a new name since apps OS the name of programs on tablets and phones.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

harsh said:


> While I've seen weather bugs and other widgets, I've never installed them.
> 
> I immediately turned off any Windows Sidebar gadgetry on computers I used.
> 
> Are apps on a computer in any was necessary (other than to try to keep computers relevant for those who don't really need them)?


Apparently, you really don't understand.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm just saying it's a bit easier to read a Kindle Book in the Win 8 Metro app than on the desktop. When traveling on a crowded airplane the Kindle Fire works just fine for reading.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

That was DesqVIEW and it worked great with '386/486 and later PCs especially well (using the 80386 EMM memory managers.) I remember using Procomm Plus / DSZ downloading files in one window while doing other DOS things in others on an 80386Sx (16 MHz with 4 MB RAM at the time)

Windows ver1 and 2 sucked. Windows 3.0 and later worked fairly well (on 386 and later CPUs). I used Norton Commander alot in my DOS days - better and faster than Doshell. Norton Desktop was a step too far for that line. QDOS also was a good shell.

I've used DOS from ver 2- 6.3 , Ver 5 was the real gamechanger, 6.x just added some icing / bug fixes.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

scooper said:


> That was DesqVIEW and it worked great with '386/486 and later PCs especially well (using the 80386 EMM memory managers.) I remember using Procomm Plus / DSZ downloading files in one window while doing other DOS things in others on an 80386Sx (16 MHz with 4 MB RAM at the time)
> 
> Windows ver1 and 2 sucked. Windows 3.0 and later worked fairly well (on 386 and later CPUs). I used Norton Commander alot in my DOS days - better and faster than Doshell. Norton Desktop was a step too far for that line. QDOS also was a good shell.
> 
> I've used DOS from ver 2- 6.3 , Ver 5 was the real gamechanger, 6.x just added some icing / bug fixes.


Yeah, DESQview and QEMM were what I used, plus PCtools. I was never a fan of Norton, especially as each revision of any of their software seem to increased its bloatness.


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## Delroy E Walleye (Jun 9, 2012)

Really liked 5. Ran great on the old 8088 4.7MHz. (That one struggled with 6.)


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

harsh said:


> Windows 1.0 was little more than DOSshell (which still exists as Windows Explorer) that was considered a big improvement over doing things from the command line. It was no GEM to be sure.


I wonder how many would actually get your reference.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> I wonder how many would actually get your reference.


Probably half that used the Commodore 64 know of it and all of the Atari ST veterans lived it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Apps are programs. It's the same thing just a new name since apps OS the name of programs on tablets and phones.


I question the utility of these programs other than maybe an alarm clock to remind you to step away from the computer.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

WOW....just WOW. :eek2:


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> My first computer was a Vendex Headstart. I got it because it came package with software. Which at $2500, made it a great deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember when I had a Commodore 64 computer and I had a friend that had a Commodore 128. I remember wishing I had a 128.

Modems I had a 300baud modem. Then upgraded to a 1200baud. Then I was at another friends house and her had a 2400baud modem. I thought that was the fastest in the world and I wanted that type.

Now look at us. How things have changed.

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## B Newt (Aug 12, 2007)

When I started to use a IBM style computer (386SX), I started with Windows 3.1 or something like that. Didn't like it. So I switched to OS2 software. Worked like a champ.Liked it a lot better than windows. I still have the OS/2 install package. Yep I also started with a 300 baud modem. Hmm I still have that old modem I think. I might try to use it and see how 300 baud looks today. !rolling


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Yeah, DESQview and QEMM were what I used, plus PCtools. I was never a fan of Norton, especially as each revision of any of their software seem to increased its bloatness.


PC Tools was great until Symantec bought it.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Since this thread has evolved into a little history, this is the 40th anniversary of CP/M and the Computer History Museum has released some of the source code.

http://hackaday.com/2014/10/06/cpm-source-code-released/


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

bobnielsen said:


> PC Tools was great until Symantec bought it.


A lot of Norton software was as well.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I remember using a word processor programme called Word Perfect. I thought that was so confusing.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

SeaBeagle said:


> I remember using a word processor programme called Word Perfect. I thought that was so confusing.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


_*Lotus*_ was the spread sheet program to have. And *dBase* was the database program.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

SeaBeagle said:


> I remember when I had a Commodore 64 computer and I had a friend that had a Commodore 128. I remember wishing I had a 128.
> 
> Modems I had a 300baud modem. Then upgraded to a 1200baud. Then I was at another friends house and her had a 2400baud modem. I thought that was the fastest in the world and I wanted that type.
> 
> ...


My Commodore 64 is in my upstairs closet with all my old video game consoles.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SeaBeagle said:


> I remember using a word processor programme called Word Perfect. I thought that was so confusing.


And many who type documents for fun and profit would kill to have it back. Word is so mouse intensive and the ribbon is the textbook definition of confusion.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Drucifer said:


> _*Lotus was the spread sheet program to have. And dBase was the database program.
> *_


_*Ashton Tate's dBASE was around long before Windows (I ran it under MP/M) and the rest of the suite would be populated with MicroPro International's Wordstar and Microsoft's Multiplan.

My first job with spreadsheets involved using Visicalc on an Apple ///.*_


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> _*Lotus*_ was the spread sheet program to have. And *dBase* was the database program.


At least until they released dBase IV. And Lotus just went unsupported last week.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

harsh said:


> And many who type documents for fun and profit would kill to have it back. Word is so mouse intensive and the ribbon is the textbook definition of confusion.


WordPerfect is still available. The Home and Student edition is $63 at Amazon and includes Quattro Pro, an excellent spreadsheet program.

Word doesn't have to be mouse intensive. There are many keyboard shortcuts that can replace mouse movements. And it is very easy to hide the ribbon interface if you find it confusing.


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## grover517 (Sep 29, 2007)

Couldn't afford the commodores so opted for a Colecovision Adam since I was already addicted to the colecovision gaming console.

http://oldcomputers.net/adam.html


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

ColecoVision was my favorite game console. I waiting for the Dracula game, when the whole industry collapse.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

harsh said:


> Probably half that used the Commodore 64 know of it and all of the Atari ST veterans lived it.


I would be one of those - even wrote some programs for my old Atari 1040ST


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

harsh said:


> And many who type documents for fun and profit would kill to have it back. Word is so mouse intensive and the ribbon is the textbook definition of confusion.


We've never stopped using WordPerfect, now on build 17.0.0.337 (labeled standalone as Corel WordPerfect X7 and a part of WordPerfect Office X7).

We still reset the preferences to use the WordPerfect original keyboard settings. And they have retained the Alt+F3 reveal codes giving you full control over your document in ways which cannot be done in Word. I have had some people argue with me about that, but I always win the argument when I show them the differences. WordPerfect for decades was the word processing program used by all law offices and courts, so ease of complex formatting and absolute control over that formatting was critical. (These days in California courts correct format, grammar and spelling have gone away, probably because most the judges, court clerks, attorneys, legal assistants, paralegals, and legal secretaries don't know the differences.)

I create most word processing documents in WordPerfect and can save them as a Word document format for others. I have to be careful if I know I'm going to be sharing the document with Word users because there is so much that can be done with a document in WordPerfect for which there are no comparable easy format codes in Word.

Here's a link to the home and student version web site for information, but billsharpe is correct that it is available at Amazon and other sites for less money than at Corel. Ironically, we have upgraded our WordPerfect Office with every release since MS-DOS even though we pretty much stopped using Paradox a few years ago switching to Access and decades ago I had to switch to Excel from QuattroPro because everyone I worked with used Excel and there were conversion compatibility problems at that time.


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## AntAltMike (Nov 21, 2004)

I could get by with Deskmate if it wasn't for the file size limit.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

billsharpe said:


> WordPerfect is still available. The Home and Student edition is $63 at Amazon and includes Quattro Pro, an excellent spreadsheet program.
> 
> Word doesn't have to be mouse intensive. There are many keyboard shortcuts that can replace mouse movements. And it is very easy to hide the ribbon interface if you find it confusing.


I bet that version would not work on a DOS computer.

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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I used a real neat word processor called Paperback Writer. I also loved Prodigy internet service. I mean when the graphical interface was being used. I did not like the non graphical version.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

SeaBeagle said:


> I bet that version would not work on a DOS computer.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


I agree with you, but who uses a DOS-only computer these days?


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

Was referring to mucho days back, well years back, no wait last century. You must remember in those days you never heard of computer viruses as much or security problems with credit cards.


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## B Newt (Aug 12, 2007)

I use WordUp on my Atari 1040 STe. Just kidding, but I need to boot up the st and see where I left off years ago. It will be interesting to see whats on the ole computer. But to get back on subject I really hope win 10 can be set up to look and feel like win 7.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

I've downloaded and backed up but I haven't installed yet.

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

SeaBeagle said:


> I remember using a word processor programme called Word Perfect. I thought that was so confusing.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


I loved Wordperfect. The keyboard shortcuts became second nature and when I had to transition to Word I missed Wordperfect. 25 years later and I still occasionally miss Wordperfect.

Mike


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I agree with you, but who uses a DOS-only computer these days?


George R. R. Martin. But then look at how long it's been waiting for his next book.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

billsharpe said:


> I agree with you, but who uses a DOS-only computer these days?


I have a voice mail system that has been running DOS 6.22 for12 years.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

harsh said:


> I have a voice mail system that has been running DOS 6.22 for12 years.


Nothing wrong with that. Do not fix something that works.

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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

harsh said:


> I have a voice mail system that has been running DOS 6.22 for12 years.


Hey, that's the latest (and last) DOS system. Came out in 1994.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

What version was that? Seven right? By the way I forgot about but we still are using DOS on out computers unless one has an Apple brand. Just that Windows loads over DOS with the Windows graphical interface. The command prompt takes you to the DOS window.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

DOS 6.22 was the last standalone version that I generally consider to truly be MS-DOS. I think in some ways it went all the way to 8 in Windows ME.


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## seern (Jan 13, 2007)

For years I used a dos based word processor called XyWrite. It was very powerful and easy to use.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I use a bank programme called Checkbook Plus this is a DOS programme that everts to DOS from within Windows. Very simple to use. I looked at others that are Window based more complicated. I do not like programmes that have too many options. 

Like there are so many word processors out there. I prefer Wordpad. Much simpler to others. I still use a DOS word processor channel Perfect Editor.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I agree with you, but who uses a DOS-only computer these days?


My doctor does. He has a patient/prescription database that he can't get ported to a Windows based program. It has to manually entered in a new system. It's being worked on slowly. :grin:

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> DOS 6.22 was the last standalone version that I generally consider to truly be MS-DOS. I think in some ways it went all the way to 8 in Windows ME.


i still have 6.22 on an old TechNet CD. 

Mike


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

billsharpe said:


> Hey, that's the latest (and last) DOS system. Came out in 1994.


And like later versions of Windows, certainly not their best.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

harsh said:


> And like later versions of Windows, certainly not their best.


Windows 98 was the worstest. Remember that famous blue screen?

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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

No, there were worse versions of Windows than 98.

I've actually gotten Windows 8 to blue screen, with the emoticon.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

SeaBeagle said:


> Windows 98 was the worstest. Remember that famous blue screen?


Worse than Me?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SeaBeagle said:


> Windows 98 was the worstest. Remember that famous blue screen?


As an even numbered version, it didn't have much hope. 98SE on the other hand was pretty darn good.

It has to be a toss-up between Windows 2 and Windows Me but there is a lot to recommend Windows 8 and a fairly good campaign behind Vista.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

Mark Holtz said:


> Worse than Me?


 And me as well. I wear blue clothes sometimes does that count?

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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> No, there were worse versions of Windows than 98.
> 
> I've actually gotten Windows 8 to blue screen, with the emoticon.


Then if that the case then I will stay with Windows XP. Never had any problems with XP.

I just purchased a Dell D250 laptop that has Windows XP.

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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

SeaBeagle said:


> Then if that the case then I will stay with Windows XP. Never had any problems with XP.
> 
> I just purchased a Dell D250 laptop that has Windows XP.
> 
> Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile app


I've gotten XP to blue screen lots of times. I've actually blue screened every version, except for Windows 10 so far.

I'd take a blue screen or two over no security updates any day. And not all blue screens are the fault of the OS.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

SeaBeagle said:


> Then if that the case then I will stay with Windows XP. Never had any problems with XP.


Staying with XP will be difficult as Microsoft's development tools have included code that prevents programs from running under XP. Once much of the off-the-shelf software is replaced or upgraded, XP will become a real problem even if the only reason is Microsoft's frustration.

My first troubles were with the Garmin Express updater software earlier this year. The upgrade took place but the software won't run so the whole installation was hosed. I expect that the tax software will be iffy for the 2015 tax year. For 2014, both Turbo Tax and HR Block at Home will support XP SP3.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

And XP users are going to need to pretty much switch over to Firefox to avoid the SSL switchover that's going to be happening. If secure sites go completely to SHA-2, I think Firefox is the only one that uses it's own SSL stack.

OK, not an issue with SP3, but apparently there are quite a lot of XP users still on SP2.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I never need any new programmes for my computer.I have about four that I use.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> And XP users are going to need to pretty much switch over to Firefox to avoid the SSL switchover that's going to be happening. If secure sites go completely to SHA-2, I think Firefox is the only one that uses it's own SSL stack.


With 90% using SHA-1 now, it will be a while and the push isn't really going to happen until 2017. By that time, there will probably be a whole new computer landscape.


> OK, not an issue with SP3, but apparently there are quite a lot of XP users still on SP2.


I doubt that they will stay there if web browsing becomes problematic. Pretty much any new software that you can buy that runs under XP requires SP3.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

harsh said:


> With 90% using SHA-1 now, it will be a while and the push isn't really going to happen until 2017. By that time, there will probably be a whole new computer landscape.I doubt that they will stay there if web browsing becomes problematic. Pretty much any new software that you can buy that runs under XP requires SP3.


Chrome is becoming more aggressive next month, at least if someone pays attention to the lock symbol in address bar. Companies, particularly banks, are going to want the lock icon etc to show up on systems that use Chrome.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

I like Avant Browser because the saved password option.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Hadn't heard of that one. I just use LastPass for passwords.


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## SeaBeagle (May 7, 2006)

Called autofill on Avant Browser.


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