# New GUI Update: Horrible!



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

When it first became available in early to mid January, I downloaded it. I have a Hopper 1. This "upgrade" is hardly an upgrade. It is WAY slower than the previous GUI and it makes it damn near impossible to use. I spent about two minutes getting the receiver to respond to any commands. Does anyone know of a way to go back to the old guide and GUI?

Scott


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't think you can roll back... and I think there's a reason why Dish hasn't rolled this new GUI for the older Hopper receivers. I feel like a lot of people (based on what I keep reading) are jumping the gun wanting to get the new interface before Dish is ready to let it go.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dunkonu23 said:


> When it first became available in early to mid January, I downloaded it


You did it by your wish... and got what they did send (as usual, half-baked, not tested ...)
so, next time think and read before jump the gun !


----------



## BillJ (May 5, 2005)

This is why I never want to be one of the first for any "improvement". I'll wait my turn and usually DISH will have the bugs worked out before they get to me. Not only DISH, pretty much any technical device. Never saw the advantage to being a beta tester.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

BillJ said:


> Never saw the advantage to being a beta tester.


dish LOVE customers being guinea pigs


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

The funny thing is this: The alert for the upgrade said it was going to happen anyway by the end of January, regardless! This was not something I did on a whim. Had the "notice" said it was beta software or anything other than a mandatory upgrade, I would NOT have allowed the upgrade to proceed. In fact, the second Hopper in my house upgraded without my having to do anything. 

Scott


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

your devices doomed forever


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It is not beta software. Don't believe people who consider all software DISH releases to be beta.


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

Well, James, it's just horrible, then. There's no way I can upgrade to a Hopper3 because I have an RV where I use one hopper when we travel--dish won't let me carry a 3 and a 1 on the same account, so I'm stuck. Oh, well.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

BillJ said:


> . Never saw the advantage to being a beta tester.


Beta testing is wonderful as long as you sign up voluntarily. I signed up on Betabound.com and I have Beta tested lots of products before the hit the market. Some you get to keep some you have to send back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

I have to say, this is the absolute worst experience with a Dish Network product I have ever had. It has been over two months and this is HORRIBLE. It is missing DVR events, going from screen to screen is rotten. Trying to watch something from our other Hopper hangs up one of the Hoppers. If I didn't spend over $1500 on a Dish dish for our motorhome, I'd be done with this crap--whoppee! I get to take the problem with me!


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

make your new habit - do cold reboot of the H each day or each week at least


----------



## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

With the 211k and EHD, I set the programs I want to record for the next 9 days. Lately, I have had to check every day to make sure those timers are set. I find one movie I had set, decided to change to the X where it wasn't going to record. I changed it back. I just do not trust the guide any longer. Dish needs to do something.


----------



## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

P Smith said:


> make your new habit - do cold reboot of the H each day or each week at least


My Hoppers won't make it much past two days without spontaneously rebooting, I'd be surprised if any of them made it a week. This usually happens just as a recording starts. Is it any wonder why DISH wants the receiver rebooted every 24-hours. Clearly one reason is to hide the fact that the receiver is not very stable. But why wait 48 hours when you can crash part of the receiver by cycling through the different DVR screens (eg: My Recordings --> Deleted Recording and back). Or, go into a Titled Folder and delete all recordings inside and exit.

It seems like we're in that period again where DISH stumbles over the firmware. A couple of versions ago the receiver was working great, now it's broken and needs to be looked after like a child or you'll miss recordings. I wonder how long before the first fix is released (S544 was released in early Feb). Maybe this is there way of getting some people to upgrade to a new receiver and update those contracts.

I recall someone mentioning awhile back that there was a way to manually check for new firmware in the CUI. Big deal, that's a newbie feature. What I want is for DISH to reintroduce the option to disable updates. Now that would be useful.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Blowgun said:


> What I want is for DISH to reintroduce the option to disable updates. Now that would be useful.


Only if you know, in advance, that a particular update would be worse than the old firmware. Based on your posts every update is worse than the last - so I suspect you would turn off updates and suffer through with whatever version first had the "disable updates" option.

Your receiver should be rebooting every night. If you are preventing that reboot don't be surprised if it reboots at other times.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

yeah, it become a stigmata of e* coders ...
if we will go back to first Linux based FW [DP721] - it was first and _last_ model with OS residing on HDD (soon as the mfg got bug reports from first technically savvy owners, they made all next device/versions as embedded FW) and ability to debug it, it was found memory leakage and bug reports sent to e*
what response we got ? - DAILY REBOOTS in all DVR models


----------



## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

dunkonu23 said:


> I have to say, this is the absolute worst experience with a Dish Network product I have ever had. It has been over two months and this is HORRIBLE. It is missing DVR events, going from screen to screen is rotten. Trying to watch something from our other Hopper hangs up one of the Hoppers. If I didn't spend over $1500 on a Dish dish for our motorhome, I'd be done with this crap--whoppee! I get to take the problem with me!


The missed DVR events are not due to the new GUI, but due to a new EPG provider. Read the horror stories in the "EPG Weirdness - Change in Provider" thread.


----------



## mwdxer (Oct 30, 2013)

I continue to have issues with the EPG. I will set the timers, only to find the next day, several have changed. Unless I ride the guide every day, I miss programming. I have missed two movies in the last month off TCM. I had them in the guide, only to find they were deleted or Xed out saying "skipped by user". Is this the change in the guide provider, or something else? I have read other posting regarding the new EPG being troublesome. Anyone else having the same issues? I have the 211k and an outboard HDD.
Thanks.


----------



## dmspen (Dec 1, 2006)

At the very least you should call DISH and tell them you're not getting the service you paid for. Explain the problem and ask for a refund. They may give you something...or not.


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

dmspen said:


> At the very least you should call DISH and tell them you're not getting the service you paid for. Explain the problem and ask for a refund. They may give you something...or not.


Dish was no help. It appears the hopper 1 does not have enough power to run the interface they forced on me. So, they're giving me hopper's with sling and Joey 2's. They're installing them tomorrow, so I'll let everyone know.

Scott


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dunkonu23 said:


> they're giving me hopper's with sling


it's H2 ... well, I would reject the old DVR and ask for H3 !


----------



## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

P Smith said:


> it's H2 ... well, I would reject the old DVR and ask for H3 !


It is a guide problem, my 722 and 622 are doing the same thing


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

oljim said:


> It is a guide problem, my 722 and 622 are doing the same thing


H3 does 4k and have more tuners ... I would go for it ...


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

There are other factors involved. I would need two H3's--one to stay home (if my wife doesn't travel with me) and one to take with me on trips in our motor home and Dish isn't allowing two H3's. The Hopper with Sling fills this need. Believe me, if I could get two H3's, I'd be all over it.


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

Oh, yeah. I'm happy with GUI speed on the Hopper with Sling. The tech--a dish employee--said the H1's cannot handle the new GUI and was surprised they forced the upgrade push in January. I told him I knew they couldn't handle it. Yeah, I forced the pain on myself but now that it's over I'm happy, again.


----------



## crodrules (Nov 21, 2016)

dunkonu23 said:


> When it first became available in early to mid January, I downloaded it. I have a Hopper 1. This "upgrade" is hardly an upgrade. It is WAY slower than the previous GUI and it makes it damn near impossible to use. I spent about two minutes getting the receiver to respond to any commands. Does anyone know of a way to go back to the old guide and GUI?


I ditched my original Hopper in mid-January, when it still had the old GUI. After reading posts like yours, I am glad I did, since the new GUI will be forced on all of them eventually.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I expect that improvements will be made before all H1s are forced to the Carbon UI.


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

It's just interesting that some of us (I was an early Hopper adopter) got the Carbon UI and others didn't. Granted, I was stupid for not fixing the issue by getting the Hopper with Sling sooner; I think it's too much to ask for Dish to optimize code on a platform that is clearly under powered. Devops all the way, baby!

On another note, when I was backing up the H1's to EHD's, it took over 26 hours. That was an interesting experience. I haven't restored yet, but I can pretty much say it's going to take forever given my experience trying to play back a title from an EHD.  It will never end. Ever.

Scott


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

dunkonu23 said:


> On another note, when I was backing up the H1's to EHD's, it took over 26 hours. That was an interesting experience. I haven't restored yet, but I can pretty much say it's going to take forever given my experience trying to play back a title from an EHD.  It will never end. Ever.


The backup and restore process is much simpler on DIRECTV. It doesn't exist.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> The backup and restore process is much simpler on DIRECTV. It doesn't exist.


don't fool your self 
exist, I did that many times ... just used Linux PC


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> don't fool your self
> exist, I did that many times ... just used Linux PC


And you can play back the content on a different DVR?


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

James Long said:


> And you can play back the content on a different DVR?


There was an instance that someone reported they did.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

peds48 said:


> There was an instance that someone reported they did.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


An instance? LOL, not very reassuring.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

peds48 said:


> There was an instance that someone reported they did.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Later worked out (actually I recall two at least) he was incorrect simply because he saw the playlist and couldn't actually play or another was because it was over the air recordings.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> And you can play back the content on a different DVR?


Yes, OTA recordings play just fine


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

And it is fully supported by DIRECTV and not a hack?


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

BillJ said:


> This is why I never want to be one of the first for any "improvement". I'll wait my turn and usually DISH will have the bugs worked out before they get to me. Not only DISH, pretty much any technical device. Never saw the advantage to being a beta tester.


Let's just say beta testing can be... "interesting" . I wouldn't not do it without having a production type backup in case the beta testing goes sideways (and I have seen that).


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

All this stuff aside, to me, as a person who has been in IT for way longer than many of the folks I work with have been alive, it seems unconscionable for Dish to release the Carbon GUI on receivers which were completely incapable of running the software without causing customers grief. I get that Devops is the new norm for developers and companies, but surely they had to have known the Carbon GUI would be way too slow on H1's and that the only way to fix it would be to code a separate version just for H1's. I mean, they knew Netflix wasn't going to work on it, so they didn't include it. It seems to me they should have just left well enough alone regarding the H1.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> And it is fully supported by DIRECTV and not a hack?


officially it is not prohibited, so I would classify it same way as TiVo treat moving records between its DVR and other targets


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I didn't think Dish had released this carbon GUI... it's just that some people figured out how to force their receivers to take it. I thought Dish wasn't supporting the GUI on the older Hoppers in the field. Or did I miss something?


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

Stewart Vernon said:


> I didn't think Dish had released this carbon GUI... it's just that some people figured out how to force their receivers to take it. I thought Dish wasn't supporting the GUI on the older Hoppers in the field. Or did I miss something?


I got a message on my Hopper back in January saying that by the end of January I would have to take the "upgrade" regardless. There was no forcing by me, it was forced by Dish. You missed it, bro!  This is happening with H1's. I had it confirmed by both a CS rep and by the Dish (corporate employee) who installed my Hopper's with Sling. Now, if I wanted to hack the Hopper, I could, but there's no point in it. I just wanted it to work and Carbon GUI with an H1 is something that should have never made it into the wild.

Scott


----------



## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Carbon GUI is not forced, I still have 2 H2's with the good interface - everything still works.

Carbon GUI is an option that can be installed from Channel 9607 - a so called accessibility software update.

Many love it, some dread it, if it's forced I'll have to seriously consider DirecTV or Suddenlink Cable where I can use my TiVos as receivers.

I have bought an adapter that will allow my Roamio OTA to accept cable cards.


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Geez! On balance the carbon interface is better. Hopper3 is far better than 2 Hoppers.


----------



## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> Geez! On balance the carbon interface is better. Hopper3 is far better than 2 Hoppers.


I would agree, I've never regretted getting it early on my HWS, and of course on my Hopper 3 now.

Mediacom came by yesterday to try to get me to move up to getting their TV and phone service. From a purely financial standpoint, it would be a good move. But I don't want wiring all over the house for two TiVo clients. And the savings wouldn't be as much as it would have in the past since I have Flex Pack+locals+all premiums, H3 and 2 wireless clients for less than $100/month.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## comizzou573 (Aug 6, 2007)

I dont think dish really cares about their customer as much as directv does. There more hd regional sports network on directv than dish network for hawaii. I have been asking for years about more hd sports, no improvement. Then i was lied to by a csr they are launching a new satellite at the 105 for channel improvement, but still no results. The hopper new gui has lots of errors, like when i went to rent a move there were 6 episode showing. After watching 2 of 6 episode on demand, 3 of episode disappeared. I dont think dish really cares about addressing our issues.


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

comizzou573 said:


> I dont think dish really cares about their customer as much as directv does...


Try reading the DirecTV forums before making a statement like that. Similar moaning...


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BTW: Watch for carbon on June 8th.


----------



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dunkonu23 said:


> I got a message on my Hopper back in January saying that by the end of January I would have to take the "upgrade" regardless. There was no forcing by me, it was forced by Dish. You missed it, bro!  This is happening with H1's. I had it confirmed by both a CS rep and by the Dish (corporate employee) who installed my Hopper's with Sling. Now, if I wanted to hack the Hopper, I could, but there's no point in it. I just wanted it to work and Carbon GUI with an H1 is something that should have never made it into the wild.
> 
> Scott


I can't speak to that... I remember others saying they heard that... but then January came and went and I don't see it ever said that Dish ever forced anyone to take the new GUI on the older Hoppers. I'm not saying they didn't... or that maybe they didn't send some replacement Hoppers out with the new GUI on them... but as far as I was aware, rumors aside, I never heard or saw that Dish ever officially pushed this new GUI to Hopper or Hopper 2... in part because of the kinds of problems I have seen people, especially on original Hopper, posting on the forum.


----------



## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

Got to say I love the new upgrade! Now you can make more than 5 folders and much easier to move stuff around. Unfortunately does seem a bit slower. I haven't upgraded to hopper 3, but this upgrade makes me happy with what I have.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## crodrules (Nov 21, 2016)

tcatdbs said:


> Got to say I love the new upgrade! Now you can make more than 5 folders and much easier to move stuff around.


Yes, that is one thing that always annoyed me with the original Hopper with the old UI. I thought that it was just a bug, or that I somehow wasn't doing it right, when I tried to create more folders and no longer saw the Create Folder option. I didn't realize that it was an actual limit and that it was designed that way.


----------



## tcatdbs (Jul 10, 2008)

Well, my option has changed from good to sucks. I have 2 ehds hooked up and it's pretty much impossible to play a movie from them. Either takes 2 or 3 minutes, or doesn't play anything but a black screen. Time to upgrade to the 3 or to drop Dish altogether!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

Stewart,

It's a bit odd, I agree, but I swear I didn't do anything special to get the Carbon GUI "upgrade". I'm not lying when I say it was forced on my systems in January. That you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

Scott


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Something triggered that update on your receiver. Your guess is as good as mine.

The mass forced everyone must have Carbon has not occurred. I received a notification that it would come next month. (Or I can force the upgrade through an app on the receiver.)


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

Like I posted in the first message. I had a popup that told me to upgrade or else it would be a forced upgrade at the end of January. I don't understand it, but it happened. That said, this GUI update is simply too much for a Hopper 1. Why they are making Hopper 1 users use it is beyond me. It makes an already slow Hopper 1 even slower. The corporate Dish rep who upgraded me to Hopper with Sling told me everyone he's seen with the Carbon GUI and a Hopper 1 is complaining. The only choice is to upgrade the hardware. Even so, transferring EHD backed up content to the Hopper with Sling is just as slow as writing it to the EHD with a Hopper 1. The advantage of USB 3 is apparent. Still, I suspect that the slowness has more to do with the format of the EHD and possible encryption/decryption of the saved content. 

Scott


----------



## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Just goes to show, that as I said back then, unless there was a compelling household need for 2 Hoppers, it was foolish not to take advantage of the initial free Hopper3 upgrade. Mine, and most others, have been humming along pretty much trouble free from the beginning. And, what an improvement!


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

dunkonu23 said:


> I suspect that the slowness has more to do with the format of the EHD and possible encryption/decryption of the saved content.


your suspicion is not what happen in reality:
a) no re-encoding happened - it's bit-to-bit copy
b) files system type is good - same EXT3/4 as on main HDD 
c) the copy process has VERY low priority to prevent sluggishness other more important tasks


----------



## unr1 (Jul 16, 2005)

yea, I made the mistake and upgraded to this new GUI on my Hopper 2.
It's slow as ****. It does seem to have added functionality but the lag is too much. I hope it improves or l'll be cancelling very soon. I was planning on it anyway but this just makes it easier to leave dish lol


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

unr1 said:


> It's slow as ****.


use laxatives


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

The ONLY reason I have not upgraded to Hopper 3's is simple: You can't have two on your account and they won't let you keep a Hopper with Sling and a Hopper 3 on the same account--I've tried. The reason I would need a Hopper with Sling along with a Hopper 3 is this: I have a motor home. I move a Hopper to the motor home when I travel to RC Helicopter events. If I travel alone and only have a Hopper3, that means either my wife or I will have nothing but Terrestrial TV. That is unacceptable to me. More importantly, it is unacceptable to my wife.  So, I have two Hoppers with Sling. One went with me last weekend to Cincinnati for an RC Helicopter event and my wife still had satellite TV at home. 

Scott


----------



## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

You can have up to two 211 or Wally for your RV on an account with a Hopper 3(or any Hopper).


----------



## unr1 (Jul 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> use laxatives


Haha dad joke?

Anyway, I used Alexa with dish and I'm really impressed! Works great.


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

n0qcu said:


> You can have up to two 211 or Wally for your RV on an account with a Hopper 3(or any Hopper).


Does nothing for me. I don't want to have two additional receivers with limited capabilities. 

Scott


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

P Smith said:


> your suspicion is not what happen in reality:
> a) no re-encoding happened - it's bit-to-bit copy
> b) files system type is good - same EXT3/4 as on main HDD
> c) the copy process has VERY low priority to prevent sluggishness other more important tasks


Cool. Thanks for that. Important is in the eye of the person waiting 26 hours for a process to complete. 

Scott


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

unr1 said:


> Haha dad joke?
> 
> Anyway, I used Alexa with dish and I'm really impressed! Works great.


I use my echo with my Harmony Hub and it works great. I got the echo as a Christmas present so my wife wouldn't have to slog through remotes (she never got Hub app) and even that doesn't work. She just uses the remotes. I use the Echo.

Scott


----------



## jdskycaster (Sep 1, 2008)

Both of my Hopper 2000's were force upgraded on 5/31 and agree that they are pretty useless. Dish offered to upgrade both old Hoppers to a Hopper 3 and a 4K Joey for free. They also upgraded the three Joey 1's with Joey 2's. I save a couple bucks a month in hardware fees and the Hopper 3 is so much better. Like the new remotes and picked up a Hopper go for long airplane flights for business. Inflight entertainment options are not the best and streaming at many hotels lately has been horrible as well. Seems most hotels are getting smart and severely limiting bandwidth for guest's using streaming services.


----------



## unr1 (Jul 16, 2005)

unr1 said:


> Haha dad joke?
> 
> Anyway, I used Alexa with dish and I'm really impressed! Works great.


Quoting myself here
Alexa has been inconsistent. When it wants to work it works well. Otherwise it just doesn't. It's off and on. I'm hoping it will get better as time goes on.


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

Recording: F1. I have it set to record on multiple channels, with the earliest one (usually NBCSports, but can be CNBC, MSNBC, etc.). Well, it seldom does the earliest airing. The last GP, I had to stream on my AppleTV. It's missed stuff for my wife, too. If I wasn't locked into Dish because of the Dish on my motor home, I'd be gone!


----------



## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

dunkonu23 said:


> Recording: F1. I have it set to record on multiple channels, with the earliest one (usually NBCSports, but can be CNBC, MSNBC, etc.). Well, it seldom does the earliest airing. The last GP, I had to stream on my AppleTV. It's missed stuff for my wife, too. If I wasn't locked into Dish because of the Dish on my motor home, I'd be gone!


Do you have multiple timers, one for each channel, or one seek timer? I have it setup as a seek timer for "formula one" as my #2 timer and it gets recorded on the 1st recording every time.


----------



## dunkonu23 (Sep 11, 2006)

I have seek timers.  It missed FP2, today. They used to work. The failures started with the Austrian GP and now through Silverstone. 

Scott


----------



## TheGrove (Jan 10, 2007)

dunkonu23 said:


> I have seek timers.  It missed FP2, today. They used to work. The failures started with the Austrian GP and now through Silverstone.
> 
> Scott


Well you may be in the catch-22 that I've been in and seen where the timers just stop working for some reason and you have to recreate them. Sorry about that.


----------

