# >>> DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver! <<<



## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

[Mods - please tack this thread.]

Hi Folks,

This thread is intended to educate all DirecTV subscribers about how DirecTV manages their equipment, and the limitations on customers when ordering equipment.

On February 28, 2006, DirecTV ended their former practice of *selling* receivers to customers, who would then own those receivers. As of March 1, 2006, new customers or customers upgrading receivers began getting additional up-front discounts, but the equipment provided was no longer "owned", but rather was leased. Leasing receivers offers several advantages:

- Allows DirecTV to lower the up-front cost of expensive receivers, making it easier for customers to afford the receiver setup they want.

- Allows for better (cheaper) upgrade offers, again because of the lower up-front cost of the receivers.

- Allows for receivers that are returned, by customers who have upgraded or canceled service, to be refurbished and recycled into the field.

- Allows DirecTV to afford to replace leased receivers for the cost of shipping (around $20) if they break. Owned receivers only had a 90-day warranty, and if you didn't carry the Protection Plan, and your owned receiver died, you had to buy a replacement. For an expensive receiver like an HD-DVR, that could mean a $500 or more savings for a lease customer.

Of course, the lease program also has some disadvantages:

- DirecTV requires a 2-year programming commitment, starting from the activation date of any leased receiver. Early Termination Fee (ETF) for canceling prior to your commitment expiration date is $20 x months remaining. All new and upgrade leased receiver activations reset the commitment to 24 months. Owned receiver activations and "dead receiver" replacements do not (or at least, are not supposed to) reset the commitment. [Always ask to be transferred to the Access Card Team to activate an owned or replacement receiver, and be very clear that this should not reset your commitment. Other CSRs don't have the ability to activate a receiver without the computer extending the commitment.]

- Because DirecTV needs to be able to recycle all of the returned leased receivers they get back, DirecTV does NOT promise, advertise, or guarantee that you will receive any particular model or submodel of receiver. You are only guaranteed to receive a model from a specific class of receiver. As of this writing, those classes are:

- Standard-Definition (SD) receiver [i.e., D11, D12]
- SD-DVR [i.e., R15, R16, R22]
- High-Definition (HD) receiver [i.e., H20, H21, H23, H24, H25]
- HD-DVR [i.e., HR20, HR21, HR22, HR23, HR24]

If a CSR suggests, implies, agrees, or promises you that you will receive a specific receiver model, that CSR is either poorly-trained and wrong, or is lying to you to get you off the phone. CSRs have NO WAY of specifying a specific model of receiver; the computer ordering system only allows a receiver CLASS to be ordered.*

A CSR may offer to add "notes" to your work order requesting a specific receiver model. These notes HOLD NO WEIGHT and installers not only may not receive those notes, but are allowed to ignore the notes completely. A note on your work order means almost nothing, because the installer is required to follow the work order, or if possible, modify it as needed, but work orders do NOT specify model numbers, only classes, and the installer will only have the receivers assigned to his truck/van that day.

DirecTV specifically does NOT track the individual model numbers on an individual tech's truck, and DirecTV has a very large number of independent subcontractors, who aren't even a part of DirecTV's internal inventory system, and will never be. So, given the current business structure, it isn't possible to track receivers down to that level, and even if it was possible, it isn't in DirecTV's best interest. Tracking receivers at that level would cost a LOT of money in time and effort and programming, and would ultimately not gain them much if anything.

The bottom line is: if you call DirecTV as a new customer, or as an existing customer for an upgrade, and DirecTV sends a tech, or, for certain upgrades, ships a receiver, YOU WILL GET WHATEVER RECEIVER MODEL IS AVAILABLE, with refurbs being the first priority to deploy. It isn't in DirecTVs financial interest to buy more new equipment if they have unused refurb equipment available, so refurbs get shipped first, until they run out.

So, how do you get the specific receiver model that you want?

Simple: For a leased receiver, order the receiver model you want from a DirecTV retailer, either local or online, rather than directly from DirecTV. Yes, that means you will probably pay full lease price, and will have to give up any additional discounts that DirecTV may be offering. Note that this receiver will be a lease; you are NOT "buying" it, and you WILL have a 2-year commitment when you activate it.

Another method is to buy the receiver you want outright. Most folks look for used, owned receivers on eBay or Craigslist, or right here on DBSTalk.com. Just be sure to get the Access Card number and RID number and check the receiver with DirecTV to ensure that it is:

- owned, not leased
- has no outstanding balance on it, and
- can be transferred to another account.

You will need to obtain a new access card from DirecTV to use an owned receiver that was previously activated on another account. NOTE: leased receivers CANNOT be transferred from account to account per DirecTV policy, and are therefore "unusable.".

The third method, for those wanting to OWN their receiver AND have it NEW, is to call DirecTV and ask to purchase an OWNED receiver. This is a fairly unusual request and many CSRs will tell you it can't be done, but it can. The Access Card department will know. Yes, you'll likely pay MSRP for it, but it will be new, and will be owned.

The fourth method is to purchase an HR21 Pro, which was never leased, and was intended to be SOLD (rather than leased) by retailers, for customers looking to own a receiver.

Hopefully this will help clear up one of the most common questions we get here at DBSTalk.com.

*Yes, there ARE a handful of exceptions where specific models are sent out. For example, in markets that don't have HD locals available via satellite, if you plan to use an OTA antenna for HD locals, you can advise DirecTV that you need your receiver to have OTA capability, and they will send you a refurb H20 or HR20, which are the only models to have built-in OTA tuners. Of course, you give up certain capabilities: the H20 has no networking capabilities (no Whole Home service) and the HR20 can't do 3D.


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

Well explained. That should help those who don't understand DIRECTV's equipment policy.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

I know a HR20 cannot do 3D in itself, but I thought I read somewhere it can play 3D off WHDVR from a 3D compatible IRD (21-24). True or false?


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

True - I record 3D on my HR20 all the time and play on my HR24


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

codespy said:


> I know a HR20 cannot do 3D in itself, but I thought I read somewhere it can play 3D off WHDVR from a 3D compatible IRD (21-24). True or false?





wilbur_the_goose said:


> True - I record 3D on my HR20 all the time and play on my HR24


I think there is a direction problem here.
codespy's answer is false, where wilbur_the_goose's is true.
It's not the unit that records the program, but the unit that is doing the playback.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Great post, BattleZone, but I doubt it will work.

You could have made your post:


> DirecTV cannot and will not promise to deliver any specific DVR model.
> DirecTV cannot and will not promise to deliver any specific DVR model.
> DirecTV cannot and will not promise to deliver any specific DVR model.
> DirecTV cannot and will not promise to deliver any specific DVR model.
> ...


and go on for another two hundred lines and still, tomorrow we'd see a new thread titled, "DirecTV LIED to me and sent me a HR 23!"


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Carl Spock said:


> Great post, BattleZone, but I doubt it will work.
> 
> You could have made your post:
> 
> and go on for another two hundred lines and still, tomorrow we'd see a new thread titled, "DirecTV LIED to me and sent me a HR 23!"


+1


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

So, you're saying a CSR can get you an HR24 if you request it nicely several times, OR threaten to leave, OR if you bundle it with a demand for, say AMC HD, OR if you say you'll send the truck back if the Installer doesn't come forth with one, OR.........
.
.
.
.
.
.


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## TomK (Oct 18, 2010)

I have one HR23 HD DVR and I just got a free upgrade (with a new 2-year agreement) from my defective R15 receiver to an HD receiver. I was hoping to get a new HR24 HD DVR but, lo and behold, I received an HR21 HD DVR manufactured in November 2007.  I guess people getting free upgrades can't hope for much but, man oh man, a receiver that is 3.5 years old? It works fine and that is what matters, I was just hoping for a faster HR24.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Great post BZ. A lot of terrific information laid out very well.

- Merg


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## bluemoon737 (Feb 21, 2007)

The ONLY correction is that if you can ask for (and you will get) a 3D capable receiver you are guaranteed not to get an HR20...other than that, it's a crap shoot.


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## stik6873 (Nov 14, 2006)

I think this policy is bull.... 
example:
Went to Solid Signal and paid the $200 for an HR24. 3 months later the hard drive went. Solid Signal won't take it back, and DTV says I could get any receiver as a replacement. You know there is a reason I went to Solid Signal and spent the $200. I have the protection plan, I could have just called DTV and said replace my 9 year Tivo box (which still works by the way) for nothing rather than going to Solid Signal and spending the $$$ for the box I wanted.

So what did I do? Went to Best Buy and purchased an external drive. HR24 works fine now, but that doesn't make the policy right.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

stik6873 said:


> I think this policy is bull....
> example:
> Went to Solid Signal and paid the $200 for an HR24. 3 months later the hard drive went. Solid Signal won't take it back, and DTV says I could get any receiver as a replacement. You know there is a reason I went to Solid Signal and spent the $200. I have the protection plan, I could have just called DTV and said replace my 9 year Tivo box (which still works by the way) for nothing rather than going to Solid Signal and spending the $$$ for the box I wanted.
> 
> So what did I do? Went to Best Buy and purchased an external drive. HR24 works fine now, but that doesn't make the policy right.


The policy is right. It just isn't right for you.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

> [Always ask to be transferred to the Access Card Team to activate an owned or replacement receiver, and be very clear that this should not reset your commitment. Other CSRs don't have the ability to activate a receiver without the computer extending the commitment.]


Very good info, but sad commentary. At least the class-action lawyers won't have to search very hard!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The Merg said:


> Great post BZ. A lot of terrific information laid out very well.
> 
> - Merg


And, even tho it wasn't brief, it was readable. Something we rarely see. I have this picture in my mind of *BattleZone* beating his head on his desk in frustration the next time we see a thread about another member that didn't get the 24 he was promised.....:lol:

Rich


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## cawgijoe (Dec 22, 2005)

stik6873 said:


> I think this policy is bull....
> example:
> Went to Solid Signal and paid the $200 for an HR24. 3 months later the hard drive went. Solid Signal won't take it back, and DTV says I could get any receiver as a replacement. You know there is a reason I went to Solid Signal and spent the $200. I have the protection plan, I could have just called DTV and said replace my 9 year Tivo box (which still works by the way) for nothing rather than going to Solid Signal and spending the $$$ for the box I wanted.
> 
> So what did I do? Went to Best Buy and purchased an external drive. HR24 works fine now, but that doesn't make the policy right.


Herein lies the real problem.......after three months and paying $200 to get what you want.....the box breaks and you either return it to DTV and receive whatever refubished model is available....or do a work-around as above.....or spend another $200 for another box.......it's a crapshoot for those going this route.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

stik6873 said:


> Went to Solid Signal and paid the $200 for an HR24. 3 months later the hard drive went. Solid Signal won't take it back, and DTV says I could get any receiver as a replacement.


You don't say when your unit went down, but it has been stated many times here that if they can, currently DirecTV wants to replace like with like. If your unit went down today, I would ask for the replacement. I'd bet you'd get back a HR24.

Maybe somebody who follows these issues more closely can me can comment, but I don't remember an instance of a HR24 being replaced with anything other than a HR24, or at least not recently, since the inital shortage of HR24s has gone away. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## cawgijoe (Dec 22, 2005)

I just looked up the HR24 on the Solidsignal site. It has a 1 year parts and labor warranty. I would think that you would be either guaranteed another HR24 or have your's repaired......of course you would be without service while under repair.......does anyone know how this works?


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

More than one member here has had their HR24 replaced with an HR24. It's the 21/22/23 models that seem to get interchanged often.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

The only thing I'd add is that any attempt to work the system, complain up the chain, etc to get a specific receiver is unlikely to be successful and will likely cause headache and disappointment.


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## malaern (Apr 30, 2006)

Unfortunately, this policy of "recycling" hasn't worked too well for me. My HR20 hard drive completely failed (after several years of good service). The unit could no longer boot up, just gave a blue screen. It happened rather quickly, and there was no doubt that it needed replacing. No biggie.

The CSR appropriately arranged for replacement (free with returned failed unit, $250 (!) if the faulty unit was not returned), which was another HR20, manufactured at the same place, one week later than the unit it was replacing. The case of the replacement was more beat up than the one I had had. Again, no biggie, but it suggested that it had already seen a lot of service before.

I had to RBR the "new" unit the first day I got it, and have had to several times since (whereas my 2nd, orig. HR20 is still purring along). I'll get a black screen on HD channels, and the unit completely locks up. I can't duplicate it at will, and the RBR corrects it, but one time this happened during a recording and it was ruined. I've not contacted a CSR yet, as I anticipate that the intermittent behavior would make replacement problematic, and I'm not using it very much lately anyway.

So, my real point is this: I don't like refurbs, never have. It's luck of the draw whether you get something that was easily fixed, or something that the techs couldn't duplicate, so it goes back out the door with issues, as I suspect was the case with mine.

Their policy makes good business sense--but it's not always best for the customer.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

malaern said:


> I had to RBR the "new" unit the first day I got it, and have had to several times since (whereas my 2nd, orig. HR20 is still purring along). I'll get a black screen on HD channels, and the unit completely locks up. I can't duplicate it at will, and the RBR corrects it, but one time this happened during a recording and it was ruined. I've not contacted a CSR yet, as I anticipate that the intermittent behavior would make replacement problematic, and I'm not using it very much lately anyway.


It has been suggested to just tell a CSR that it won't come on at all, feign going through the steps and say "nope, didn't work" until you get them to send a replacement. They apparently don't actually penalize you if they get it back and they can't reproduce the issue but I haven't tried this myself.


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## cawgijoe (Dec 22, 2005)

malaern said:


> Unfortunately, this policy of "recycling" hasn't worked too well for me. My HR20 hard drive completely failed (after several years of good service). The unit could no longer boot up, just gave a blue screen. It happened rather quickly, and there was no doubt that it needed replacing. No biggie.
> 
> The CSR appropriately arranged for replacement (free with returned failed unit, $250 (!) if the faulty unit was not returned), which was another HR20, manufactured at the same place, one week later than the unit it was replacing. The case of the replacement was more beat up than the one I had had. Again, no biggie, but it suggested that it had already seen a lot of service before.
> 
> ...


I doubt that the intermittent behavior would cause DTV to not send out a replacement.

There is nothing wrong with a refurb unit as long as it has been tested and works as advertised. It's up to Directv to provide a fully working box with this business model.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

rich584 said:


> And, even tho it wasn't brief, it was readable. Something we rarely see. I have this picture in my mind of *BattleZone* beating his head on his desk in frustration the next time we see a thread about another member that didn't get the 24 he was promised.....:lol:
> 
> Rich


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

BattleZone said:


>


That's me when someone messages me through ebay and tells me that my owned receiver is leased because the can't follow my thorough explanation of how to check a RID properly...


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't understand why this isn't a problem between Solid State and the OP.....


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Laxguy said:


> I don't understand why this isn't a problem between Solid State and the OP.....


I'm not the OP but personally I like Solid State. I'd hate to have to go down to Sears and use the vacuum tube checker every little bit to keep my TV working!


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I assume you mean Solid Signal. This would not be an issue with them because they are not the ones with a one year warranty. That is a manufacturers warranty, so DirecTV is the one who should be dealing with this.

You wouldn't take a Sony TV back to Best Buy if it quits working 9 months after you bought it and expect them to fix it because Sony has a 1 year warranty would you? No you will have to deal with Sony to get the TV fixed under warranty.

The OP will have to deal with DirecTV to get this replaced if he wants it done for free. He will have to hope that the HR24 is replaced with another HR24 since that is what DirecTV is supposedly trying to do for those models. He might have a little bit better chance if he gets them to schedule a tech visit and then when the tech calls ask him to make sure to bring an HR24 as a replacement. My guess is the tech will do it if they have them avaiable just to cut down on the extra hassle of messing with a DECA adapter if he is using MRV.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> I don't understand why this isn't a problem between Solid State and the OP.....


Because they are just a retailer, whereas DirecTV is both the manufacturer and service center. Two different jobs.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

matt said:


> I'm not the OP but personally I like Solid State. I'd hate to have to go down to Sears and use the vacuum tube checker every little bit to keep my TV working!


HaH! Freudian slop, I guess~ I was just posting about anachronisms.....
back to the FM multiplexer.......


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Carl Spock said:


> Because they are just a retailer, whereas DirecTV is both the manufacturer and service center. Two different jobs.


O, yokay, I was reacting more to someone's statement that Solid Signal was the seller and there was a 1 year warranty- not paying attention as to who should be making good on it.

Side note- pretty sure DirecTV isn't the manufacturer, though.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

cawgijoe said:


> I doubt that the intermittent behavior would cause DTV to not send out a replacement.


Incorrect, at least in my experience. If an issue is correctable by reboot, the CSR will not send a replacement - at least that is what I've been told on a couple of occasions by CSRs.

I've had an issue for a couple of years now with my HR20-700, when I get a heavy rain that causes rain fade, tuner one will not come back online until the system is rebooted. I've been told twice by CSRs, when attempting to get it replaced, that as long as a reboot fixes the problem, they will not send a replacement unit, period.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> pretty sure DirecTV isn't the manufacturer, though.


DirecTV don't physically build it but their name is on the front panel. That makes them the manufacturer.

Thirty years ago, I heard one manufacturer say it the best. "The world is a parts bin." It doesn't matter any more where the parts or even whole pieces come from. Your General Electric microwave oven could be made in China by an independently owned factory. It's still a General Electric, though, and if you have problems, it's GE that's ultimately responsible, not some factory in Shanghai.


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## futureformercsr (Apr 22, 2010)

raott said:


> Incorrect, at least in my experience. If an issue is correctable by reboot, the CSR will not send a replacement - at least that is what I've been told on a couple of occasions by CSRs.
> 
> I've had an issue for a couple of years now with my HR20-700, when I get a heavy rain that causes rain fade, tuner one will not come back online until the system is rebooted. I've been told twice by CSRs, when attempting to get it replaced, that as long as a reboot fixes the problem, they will not send a replacement unit, period.


The reason that will not get replaced is the problem is triggered by a signal issue, all signal issues are supposed to result in service calls not replacements. The system that locks up, if it cannot be controlled by the front panel anyway, is a firmware/hardware issue and is cause for a replacement. At least that's how they train us to handle it anyway  .


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

raott said:


> Incorrect, at least in my experience. If an issue is correctable by reboot, the CSR will not send a replacement - at least that is what I've been told on a couple of occasions by CSRs.
> 
> I've had an issue for a couple of years now with my HR20-700, when I get a heavy rain that causes rain fade, tuner one will not come back online until the system is rebooted. I've been told twice by CSRs, when attempting to get it replaced, that as long as a reboot fixes the problem, they will not send a replacement unit, period.


That's when you use the "it doesn't come on" method.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

futureformercsr said:


> The reason that will not get replaced is the problem is triggered by a signal issue, all signal issues are supposed to result in service calls not replacements. The system that locks up, if it cannot be controlled by the front panel anyway, is a firmware/hardware issue and is cause for a replacement. At least that's how they train us to handle it anyway  .


That explains it. Although my problem is triggered by a signal issue, the actual problem is the HR20 itself and IMO a service call is a waste. There was a couple of long threads on the issue a long time ago. At some point I will swap it out.


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## futureformercsr (Apr 22, 2010)

I like sigma's response, we have absolutely no way of knowing whether you're actually doing the troubleshooting or not, but as has been mentioned the company line is to attempt to replace with same model number. So as the title of the thread indicates, no guarantee of model you will receive.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> That's when you use the "it doesn't come on" method.


Just between us, that's probably what I'll do at some point.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

raott said:


> That explains it. Although my problem is triggered by a signal issue, the actual problem is the HR20 itself and IMO a service call is a waste. There was a couple of long threads on the issue a long time ago. At some point I will swap it out.


I had a similar problem with my H20-600s. One quit talking to the LNB altogether one day, and the other had lots of glitches in the picture the first day I got it. They sent out a tech. because the one receiver wasn't getting anything, which was technically a signal issue.

Both boxes happened to be replaced with H24s. The LNB was fine, and the dish was perfectly pointed.


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

Great, Great write up! Even I was unsure of some of these things.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

stik6873 said:


> I think this policy is bull....
> example:
> Went to Solid Signal and paid the $200 for an HR24. 3 months later the hard drive went. Solid Signal won't take it back, and DTV says I could get any receiver as a replacement. You know there is a reason I went to Solid Signal and spent the $200. I have the protection plan, I could have just called DTV and said replace my 9 year Tivo box (which still works by the way) for nothing rather than going to Solid Signal and spending the $$$ for the box I wanted.
> 
> So what did I do? Went to Best Buy and purchased an external drive. HR24 works fine now, but that doesn't make the policy right.


DirecTV will try to replace an H24/HR24 with a H24/HR24, especially if you have WHDVR service. The reasoning is that they don't need to worry about sending out a DECA unit as the DECA is built into the HR24.

- Merg


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

The Merg said:


> DirecTV will try to replace an H24/HR24 with a H24/HR24, especially if you have WHDVR service. The reasoning is that they don't need to worry about sending out a DECA unit as the DECA is built into the HR24.
> 
> - Merg


Having 2 HR24's now and enjoying the speed they offer I would be extremely upset to get anything else as a replacement.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> You don't say when your unit went down, but it has been stated many times here that if they can, currently DirecTV wants to replace like with like. If your unit went down today, I would ask for the replacement. I'd bet you'd get back a HR24.
> 
> Maybe somebody who follows these issues more closely can me can comment, but I don't remember an instance of a HR24 being replaced with anything other than a HR24, or at least not recently, since the inital shortage of HR24s has gone away. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


My 24s have always been replaced with 24s. So far, I've had to return three, two 500s and one 200. Just got a brand new 500 to replace a 500 that kept crashing. I've even got an "R" 500 that's been working quite well since I got it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

BattleZone said:


>


Thank you! I'm sitting here laughing my butt off! It's so good to see some humor on the forum.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

raott said:


> Incorrect, at least in my experience. If an issue is correctable by reboot, the CSR will not send a replacement - at least that is what I've been told on a couple of occasions by CSRs.
> 
> I've had an issue for a couple of years now with my HR20-700, when I get a heavy rain that causes rain fade, tuner one will not come back online until the system is rebooted. I've been told twice by CSRs, when attempting to get it replaced, that as long as a reboot fixes the problem, they will not send a replacement unit, period.


I never have a problem getting a bad HR replaced. But, my account is flagged and that helps me quite a bit. And I don't call unless my HR is truly unusable. There's really no reason for a person to be turned down if you have the PP. Three calls about the same issue will trigger a call from the Case Management Group and they will get your problem resolved quickly. They are the most knowledgeable folks you can get to at D* and are quite rational.

Rich


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## bluemoon737 (Feb 21, 2007)

matt said:


> More than one member here has had their HR24 replaced with an HR24. It's the 21/22/23 models that seem to get interchanged often.


I would say that if you have whole home and a HR24...then they pretty much have to send you a HR24 otherwise they need to set up installation of the DECA units and such...problably the best way to have some assurance of getting a 24 series.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

I know this goes against the grain. However, I was told I’d get a HR24-500 by the CSR, and I did get a HR24-500 less than 24 hours later on my doorstep (it was a self install order).

Here’s the story, as you all know the HR20-700 does not support 3D. Since I’m getting a new TV soon, I thought it would be best to move my HR20-700 to the kid’s room and get a new DVR for the living room. I simply told the CSR I needed a DVR that supports 3D and MRV. After 15 minutes on hold she came back on and said sorry for the wait. Since you’ve been on hold so long we’ll upgrade you at no additional cost (other than a breathtaking two year commitment :lol. When I reviewed the HR24-500 PO paperwork, it had “whole home DVR” listed as a separate line item. It was structured as if I ordered two items within the PO.

If you state you need a 3D capable DVR, you will get a 3D capable DVR. For “self installs” clearly DIRECTV must have the ability to cherry pick 3D capable units.


On a side note, this whole HDGUI prospect puts another wrinkle in this system. Not many people will be too happy if they have to replace their loaded (3D capable, larger hard drive, fancy touch panel, faster processor, runs cool & HDGUI) HR24-500 for a HR20-700. At some point DIRECTV will have to have full control on inventory. It will not be fair for two customers to pay the same price. One gets a new loaded HR24 (with aforementioned features), the other gets a refurbished HR20.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

rich584 said:


> So far, I've had to return three, two 500s and one 200. Rich


What kind of failures are you experiencing ?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Joe C said:


> What kind of failures are you experiencing ?


The 200 had a loose coax barrel and I turned it and it broke internally. One of the 500s went completely berserk (too long a story to tell, you can do a search for it. Just use the keyword berserk and it should come up) and the latest one was just shutting down at odd intervals. The front panel wouldn't work and the remote had no effect. Had to keep rebooting. The fourth or fifth time was the end of it. I only have so much patience with these things.

Meanwhile, my eight 20-700s keep right on truckin'.

Rich


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

sigma1914 said:


> That's when you use the "it doesn't come on" method.


which is why they are rolling trucks more often then previously.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

The policy (when it comes to truck rolls) is to replace like for like [or newer]. Obviously with the inventory system being what it is, we have what's on the truck, and there's nothing we can do about that. So that physically can't always be the case, but it is the guideline. There is consideration taken as to the replacement model in the field.


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## liquidctv (Oct 14, 2010)

So how do you explain to a customer why they have to pay up-front for a leased receiver? Is it because it would be more expensive otherwise? Like, do HD-DVRs cost $500 to manufacture?

The couple of times I compared it to a leased car, it just made them angry. 

Also, does DirecTV guarantee replacements for failed equipment? The contract terms and the existence of protection plan seems to imply that in some cases, you could be s.o.l. if your receiver dies.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

The up front lease is the only lease you pay on the receiver. If you weren't leasing the receiver the up front cost would be closer to $500 for an owned HD-DVR. Here's a refurbished owned receiver for $430.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...RO-Receiver-for-KaKu-Band-(HR21PRO)&c=DIRECTV

Yes defective leased receivers get replaced for free with another leased receiver. Without the protection plan you are supposed to pay $20 for shipping, but sometimes you can get that waived too. These replacements do not require a new 2 year agreement, although sometimes the CSRs mess up and activate them incorrectly. If you have a 2 year agreement started incorrectly you will have to deal with them to get it removed and it can take some work to do so (usually emailing Ellen's office gets it fixed pretty quickly though).

DirecTV does not guarantee that you will get the same exact model as a replacement though. For example if you have an HR23 you could end up with an HR21 as a replacement. They do however try to replace HR20s with HR20s if you tell them that you use OTA, and they supposedly try to replace HR24s with HR24s if you have Whole Home DVR on your account.


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## liquidctv (Oct 14, 2010)

>Yes defective leased receivers get replaced for free with another leased receiver. Without the protection plan you are supposed to pay $20 for shipping, but sometimes you can get that waived too.

Good info bro, ty.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

It's instructive to note that, back in the day when the HR10-250 MPEG2-only HD TiVo first came out, and for about 2 years afterwards, the cost for that HD-DVR was $999! Obviously, you owned it at that price, but customers had to cough up a grand UP-FRONT to get an HD-DVR. Eventually the price came down to $699, and finally, once everyone already knew that HD would require MPEG4, and the HR20 was about to be released, they dropped the price down to $399 to get rid of them. Yes, that $399 was a CLEARANCE PRICE for an about-to-be-obsolete HD-DVR.

Currently, an HD-TiVo v3 is $449 on sale (normally $499), and it can't even work with satellite. So, yes, $499 is a very realistic price of what an HR2x would cost if DirecTV was selling them outright. Of course, you'd always get a new one, but who wants to pay $500 upfront PER HD-DVR, only to have a new model come out in a year and have no one wanting the old one (value drops big time)? Ask iPad owners how this works.

DirecTV's system is a benefit for the vast majority of people, and has greatly increased HD adoption and up-take on the other advanced features that require HD-DVRs. Sure, a few people may not be as happy as they could be, but if you tried to go back to $500 "owned" HD-DVRs, you'd find that far more people would be upset.

Plus, the $500 owned HD-DVR is still fully available if you want it: just call DirecTV, ask for the Access Card department, and tell them you want to order a brand new HR24 to OWN, and they can set you right up. What's that? You don't want to pay that much? Exactly.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

I was promised an HRMC57-9000 and got an HR22-100 instead. I feel cheated.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

What a bad system they have. They make you sign a 2 year deal, pay up front costs to get everything installed and you can't even pick a model number. Imagine going to the car dealership, signing a 2 year lease and they just give you whatever car they see fit. Giving people garbage pos refurb boxes when you are paying up front lease costs and signing a 2 year contract is just outrageous. Most people could care less what model they get, so why not let the few of us who want certain models just get them. DirecTV needs to seriously rethink how they distribute boxes. I can't tell you how many times I have read posts with people being upset on what boxes they got. Now if you are getting the boxes for free, fine they have a case. When they are charging you $200 a box? Give me a break, they way they run it is an absolute joke.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

Sim-X said:


> What a bad system they have. They make you sign a 2 year deal, pay up front costs to get everything installed and you can't even pick a model number. Imagine going to the car dealership, signing a 2 year lease and they just give you whatever car they see fit. Giving people garbage pos refurb boxes when you are paying up front lease costs and signing a 2 year contract is just outrageous. Most people could care less what model they get, so why not let the few of us who want certain models just get them. DirecTV needs to seriously rethink how they distribute boxes. I can't tell you how many times I have read posts with people being upset on what boxes they got. Now if you are getting the boxes for free, fine they have a case. When they are charging you $200 a box? Give me a break, they way they run it is an absolute joke.


You do understand that DirecTV is not the only company doing this, right? Cable companies are also prime offenders of this. I've seen Scientific Atlanta boxes from Cox here in San Diego that are in far worse "refurbished" shape that the worst refurb DirecTV box I've ever seen. Plus, Cox charges over $17 for the HD DVR (plus service) per month, and that's just their basic HD DVR with no MRV and a 250GB Hard Drive. DirecTV isn't "scamming" people, they're just in line with everyone else.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> You do understand that DirecTV is not the only company doing this, right? Cable companies are also prime offenders of this. I've seen Scientific Atlanta boxes from Cox here in San Diego that are in far worse "refurbished" shape that the worst refurb DirecTV box I've ever seen. Plus, Cox charges over $17 for the HD DVR (plus service) per month, and that's just their basic HD DVR with no MRV and a 250GB Hard Drive. DirecTV isn't "scamming" people, they're just in line with everyone else.


First off cable doesn't make you sign a 2 year bit unless your doing some price promo bundle. On or off contract they don't charge up front lease fees for equipment. When I had comcast I wanted the new moto dcx box. I brought my old box in to local office, walked out with a new one. They could care less. Sure maybe I got lucky but still they aren't charging people $200 PER BOX and then make people sign a 2 year deal just to give it back when you quit.

DirecTV can do whatever they want, it's just the way they do things right now is bad business.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Sim-X said:


> What a bad system they have. They make you sign a 2 year deal, pay up front costs to get everything installed and you can't even pick a model number.* Imagine going to the car dealership, signing a 2 year lease and they just give you whatever car they see fit. *Giving people garbage pos refurb boxes when you are paying up front lease costs and signing a 2 year contract is just outrageous. Most people could care less what model they get, so why not let the few of us who want certain models just get them. DirecTV needs to seriously rethink how they distribute boxes. I can't tell you how many times I have read posts with people being upset on what boxes they got. Now if you are getting the boxes for free, fine they have a case. When they are charging you $200 a box? Give me a break, they way they run it is an absolute joke.


Seriously? That argument again?

It is COMPLETELY different. Car leases are for a specific length of time and have value at the end.

Although it's also different, it's closer to a Car rental (but no upfront fee). You sign up for a certain car CLASS, and that's what you get.

You (and I) might not agree with the way they do it, but it makes very good business sense, and if I were in charge (or you), it would probably work the same way.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

You know, it is very much like a car rental. They have different classes; compact, midsize, full. D* had SD, DVR, HD, HD DVR. The rental car quits working, you get one of the same size that drives fine but doesn't have glossy paint and has a big dent in the door for no cost. The IRD quits working and you get one of the same class that works fine but has a matte finish instead of glossy and scratch in the lid for no cost (or maybe shipping).

Nobody has yet to convince me that free replacement of a relatively short lifespan piece of electronics _any time that you need it_ is bad customer service. You aren't required to pay for any kind of extended warranty, and many times they will waive the shipping charge for you. Sure, you pay $199 and agree to 2 years of service to get in the door, but once you have the unit you are guaranteed to have a working one for as long as you want to have it. What other company offers that?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

+1 [Matt]

Plus BZ reminds us that some of us paid big bucks for units we owned but became rather obsolete with the switch to MPEG4.....


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> First off cable doesn't make you sign a 2 year bit unless your doing some price promo bundle. On *or off contract they don't charge up front lease fees for equipment. *When I had comcast I wanted the new moto dcx box. I brought my old box in to local office, walked out with a new one. They could care less. Sure maybe I got lucky but still they aren't charging people $200 PER BOX and then make people sign a 2 year deal just to give it back when you quit.
> 
> DirecTV can do whatever they want, it's just the way they do things right now is bad business.


I disagree with your argument because even with the upfront cost it's actually cheaper over time with DirecTV. Especially if you only have one receiver, there is no monthly fee...I'm just sayin' :grin:

While they don't usually charge an upfront fee, Comcast, here at least, wants to charge me $56.80/mo for hardware (3 HD/DVRs and 1 HD receiver, matches what I have now).

With DirecTV I pay $18/mo but with Comcast it's $38/mo more. No upfront cost but someone would have paid more than twice in hardware costs with Comcast then a similar DirecTV new customer promo (currently DirecTV's website lists one free HD DVR and one HD receiver).

Twice the money and your are more likely to get used/refrub equipment with Comcast as a new customer than with DirecTV. A friend down the street went from Dish to Comcast and both of his "new" receivers were refurbs...both of them. :nono:

IIRC, this has been the way cable has done it for...well as least as far back as when I first had cable in 1981 so I don't understand why it's a big deal. :shrug:

Mike


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

Precisely. Would you rather pay $500 for the new boxes, that have the same reliability, the same rate of failure, and then be stuck holding the bill every time one goes bad? Keep in mind that they will ALL fail _eventually_, for one reason or another.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Not to mention a lot of the time you don't even have to pay any lease fees for the equipment, or you get deals on how much you have to pay. For example I think new subscribers right now can get one HD-DVR and 2 HD receivers for free. No lease fees at all.

Then, at least in my experience, it is pretty easy to add an additional HD receiver for free each once year, or get a $100 discount on a HD-DVR once each year.

I know when I first signed up I was able to get 2 HD-DVRs for $99 each, and one standard receiver for free. Since then I've added another HD receiver and another HD-DVR, and haven't paid anything for either of them.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

matt said:


> Sure, you pay $199 and agree to 2 years of service to get in the door, but once you have the unit you are guaranteed to have a working one for as long as you want to have it. What other company offers that?


Actually, everybody does. And most of them do it without an upfront lease fee or an extra commitment. And instead of charging $20 to ship their own broken box back, you get a free service call instead.

The problem with D* is if you have the DVR a month or two and decide you don't like it. The benefit is that it is cheaper.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Dish Network makes you pay up front for the recievers too.

Cable companies don't charge up front but they charge you large monthly rental fees that add up to way more than the up front lease fee is ever going to cost you. $17/month for 24 months is $408, compared to $199 if you actually had to pay the lease fee up front from DirecTV. Not to mention if you keep the service for more than 2 years you still have to keep paying that $17 to Comcast, where your D* box was paid for long ago.

As far as service calls go most cable companies are charging for them now too, so it's not just the sat companies that are doing that.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

matt said:


> Nobody has yet to convince me that free replacement of a relatively short lifespan piece of electronics _any time that you need it_ is bad customer service.


Sorry to double-post on your same comment. That's what happens when I type too fast. :grin:

First, it's not free, it's $20. It's their broken equipment -- if they want it back they should pay for shipping or come and pick it up.

I also take issue with _anytime you need it_. It's not _anytime you want it. _ If one gets a new box and another gets a 5-year-old box, then two years later the boxes will be 2 and 7 years old. The 2 year box is OK. The 7 year old box will be in need of a tech. refresh, yet D* will force another upfront lease fee + 2 yr agreement to replace an old working box with the latest model.

Also, if I start a 2-year agreement with a new box, it will have all the new features. If it breaks within a month and is replaced with a 5-year-old unit, I won't be happy. It won't have all the new features I got used to with the new box. And I can't change providers because of the 2-year commitment. That's borderline fraud.

I like the lease model for DVRs, but why not charge different rates for different levels of DVRs? Those who want the latest box will gladly pay more, and those who don't will be happy to save some money.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want. 

Think if the cell phone companies started doing this. You want a new evo4G and they hand you a refurbished hero instead. Then when your done you have to give it back. It's stupid the way they do it. I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. Instead they have some moron that came up with this leasing program who I'm sure gets plenty of extra money in his bank account. So I guess the people who came up with this win. 

If you guys think that DirecTV can't figure out a way to give customers the models they want when they are PAYING for them and signing a 2 year bit, then maybe you guys should go apply for a job at DTV so you can help keep the craptastic leasing program alive for years to come. DTV would still make plenty of cash.

How on earth you guys can sit there and justify the way DTV runs the lease program is beyond me. When I call DTV to order another HD-DVR and dishing out $200 bucks, I am going to make sure it's an HR-24 or guess what it's getting refused. You guys that love this policy so much can have all the crap refurb boxes that's just fine by me. More HR24's for the rest of us who think the policy is complete crap. 

I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> Dish Network makes you pay up front for the recievers too.
> 
> Cable companies don't charge up front but they charge you large monthly rental fees that add up to way more than the up front lease fee is ever going to cost you. $17/month for 24 months is $408, compared to $199 if you actually had to pay the lease fee up front from DirecTV. Not to mention if you keep the service for more than 2 years you still have to keep paying that $17 to Comcast, where your D* box was paid for long ago.
> 
> As far as service calls go most cable companies are charging for them now too, so it's not just the sat companies that are doing that.


What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.

Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? *Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want. *
> 
> <snip>


Referring to the bolded statement, I've heard the same thing about other service providers. Maybe things are different where you live, but in my area (CT, RI) both Cox and Comcast will not give the customer choice of receiver/DVR. A guy I work with tried for months to get the DVR with the larger drive (Cox) and they told him that they don't swap working receivers and they *don't guarantee which DVR is sent to customer for installation*. Just like DirecTV, Cox and Comcast in my area will send out what's on the shelf. I can't tell you number of people I know who are complaining about being limited to 40 hours of HD, knowing their company has a DVR with a bigger drive, but they can't get the one they want (in one case the with Cox in RI the guy is limited to 20 hours...he switched to FiOS).

Maybe in you neck of the woods the service providers have abundant supplies and can guarantee a particular model but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works in most places. At any rate, for me, no matter which service provider I chose, as far as hardware is concerned I'm the same boat...I'm not sure about Dish.

Mike


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

Mike Bertelson said:


> Referring to the bolded statement, I've heard the same thing about other service providers. Maybe things are different where you live, but in my area (CT, RI) both Cox and Comcast will not give the customer choice of receiver/DVR. A guy I work with tried for months to get the DVR with the larger drive (Cox) and they told him that they don't swap working receivers and they *don't guarantee which DVR is sent to customer for installation*. Just like DirecTV, Cox and Comcast in my area will send out what's on the shelf. I can't tell you number of people I know who are complaining about being limited to 40 hours of HD, knowing their company has a DVR with a bigger drive, but they can't get the one they want (in one case the with Cox in RI the guy is limited to 20 hours...he switched to FiOS).
> 
> Maybe in you neck of the woods the service providers have abundant supplies and can guarantee a particular model but I'm pretty sure that's not how it works in most places. At any rate, for me, no matter which service provider I chose, as far as hardware is concerned I'm the same boat...I'm not sure about Dish.
> 
> Mike


They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

Sim-X said:


> They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.


So you'd rather pay more over time?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.


What I don't understand is what does the upfront fee matter if the overall cost for the hardware is cheaper.

A guy gets an gets an extra HD DVR for $199 and pays $6/mo which comes to about $343 for a two year commitment. The Comcast HD DVR over the same two years would cost over $400. It seems to me that the DirecTV HD DVR is a better deal.

I really don't undertand what I'm missing so I'm hoping you clear it up for me.

Mike


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Sim-X said:


> You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.


So, it's a stupid business decision yet it's profitable? How's a higher profit stupid business?



> I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. Instead they have some moron that came up with this leasing program who I'm sure gets plenty of extra money in his bank account. So I guess the people who came up with this win.
> 
> If you guys think that DirecTV can't figure out a way to give customers the models they want when they are PAYING for them and signing a 2 year bit, then maybe you guys should go apply for a job at DTV so you can help keep the craptastic leasing program alive for years to come. DTV would still make plenty of cash.


That avenue exists...Solid Signal, Weakknees, etc.



> How on earth you guys can sit there and justify the way DTV runs the lease program is beyond me. When I call DTV to order another HD-DVR and dishing out $200 bucks, I am going to make sure it's an HR-24 or guess what it's getting refused. You guys that love this policy so much can have all the crap refurb boxes that's just fine by me. More HR24's for the rest of us who think the policy is complete crap.


Why not use existing ways to guarantee a HR24? You're obviously willing to pay the $199.



> I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder


Correction...it makes a few people upset. You even acknowledged it's a "very small % of customers who request a certain model."

I always felt the best idea would be:
If you're paying the standard lease fee of $99 (H) or $199 (HR), then you should be able to specify the model.
If you receive any discount, then you get whatever you get.


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## futureformercsr (Apr 22, 2010)

Sim-X said:


> You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is* it more profitable for them? Sure *but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.
> 
> I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the *very small % of customers who request a certain model *get one. I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder


Businesses always do what is profitable for them, whenever a small percentage of customers has an impact on the profits, then policies change. Not just with this issue, but with any business, the needs of the many outweigh the complaints of a few. So if you really want to get this policy changed, get yourself and everybody else that doesn't like the policy and email the office of the president so he knows your upset. Just don't expect the industry to change unless the majority of customers for all the carriers start expressing complaints.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

bobcamp1 said:


> What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.
> 
> Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....


Not sure what cable company you deal with or have dealt with but here charter will not charge for a truck roll unless they determine the problem is inside your house, if they determine that it is inside the house (including equipment) and you do not have the monthly wiring insurance the base charge is 65.00 then a per hour charge after that.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

sigma1914 said:


> So, it's a stupid business decision yet it's profitable? How's a higher profit stupid business?


It's not, but there is more to running a business than just making profit. Sure charging people full price for refurb models is profitable, how can it not be? Does that mean it is the right decision in the long run? Of course not, I'm sure a lot of people have dumped DTV because of it.



sigma1914 said:


> That avenue exists...Solid Signal, Weakknees, etc.


I'm sure the average customer knows they have to go on to solid signal and mail order a box because dtv can't make any promises. 



sigma1914 said:


> Why not use existing ways to guarantee a HR24? You're obviously willing to pay the $199.


It's principal. Here is a clue, a brand new HR24 & a refurb HR22 are NOT the same. Do DTV gets to decide who to give the "GT" model to and who not to and charge the exact same price? It's bad business.



sigma1914 said:


> Correction...it makes a few people upset. You even acknowledged it's a "very small % of customers who request a certain model."


It is a small %, so why not give those customers what they want? It wouldn't cost them that much more if anything to small % that wants it. Let's say they piss a customer off because they want to give them a refurb hr22 instead of a hr24. That customer walks because of it. Kiss the monthly income goodbye. Sure they are a huge company is it worth it to loose a customer possibly forever over a box model? Stupid, your talking thousands of dollars in revenue over the life of the average customer.



sigma1914 said:


> I always felt the best idea would be:
> If you're paying the standard lease fee of $99 (H) or $199 (HR), then you should be able to specify the model.
> If you receive any discount, then you get whatever you get.


You could at least justify that, people that are paying should certainly be able to pick the model.



futureformercsr said:


> Businesses always do what is profitable for them, whenever a small percentage of customers has an impact on the profits, then policies change. Not just with this issue, but with any business, the needs of the many outweigh the complaints of a few. So if you really want to get this policy changed, get yourself and everybody else that doesn't like the policy and email the office of the president so he knows your upset. Just don't expect the industry to change unless the majority of customers for all the carriers start expressing complaints.


I agree, if enough people leave and complain it will change. The problem you have people here that stand by the horrible policy and try and justify DTV's actions even know it's complete bs. DTV has such a bad reputation, "F" rating BBB, yea that's great for your company imagine. I don't need to hear trolls saying the BBB is stupid bla bla. I actually kinda agree it is, but the bottom line people use the bbb all the time and trust them. The BBB understands a business will have complaints. If complaints are properly resolved, there is no way you will have an "F" rating. Clearly they are not doing something right.

I don't know how you guys can sit here and defend an "F" rated company. The policy is wack and you guys know it. This policy by no means helps the business rating.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

I'd be doing it the same way if I were running it. The vast majority of customers probably don't even know the difference, *it's just a friggin' box*!

Look at my sig; I wanted a specific model, I went and got it. If you don't like the way the lease program works, don't participate in it. It's not hard, I promise you! My only leased unit is the one that came with the system. Pay the extra cost that it's worth to you to get what you want, and do whatever you need to do to maintain it.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

bobcamp1 said:


> What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.
> 
> Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....


Don't know if we can really include the $7 DVR fee in the comparison because that is only per account. I have 3 HD-DVR and only pay that $7 once. On Comcast I would have to pay $17/month for each of the HD-DVRs.

I guess you could kind of count the $6/month but that isn't really a lease fee. It's a mirroring fee that has to be paid for each receiver after your primary receiver no matter if it is owned or leased.

I'll go ahead and make a full comparison though in my case. My costs with DirecTV are $7 for DVR and 3 x $6 for my 3 additional HD-DVRs/receivers. That's a total of $25/month. I paid $198 up front for my 2 HD-DVRs. Over 2 years my total cost was 198 + (24 x 25) = $798.

On Comcast the same setup of 3 HD-DVRs ($17/mo) and one HD receiver (9/mo) would run me $60/mo. So in 2 years my total equipment cost would be $1440.

Thats $642 in savings over 2 years. Even if I had paid the full up front lease fees (3 x 198 + 99 = $693), and included both the DVR and mirroring fees I would still have only paid $1293 in 2 years, and have saved $147.

The leasing model makes sense for both DirecTV and the consumer. Those of you who think that Comcast/Dish/etc. only use brand new boxes or let you pick and choose at will which exact model you get need to look into it more. I finally convinced my parents to upgrade their Comcast to HD about 3 years ago and we had to go through 3 HD-DVRs before we got one to work. The first two were the same model HD-DVR I had when I got rid of Comcast over 3 years ago, and they definitely looked it. Scratched, dented, and dirty as could be. Finally I was able to go into the office myself when I was visiting and got them a newer model after I specifically saw it sitting on the shelf and asked for it. It was still a used one though and had scratches on it.


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## Sim-X (Sep 24, 2009)

matt said:


> I'd be doing it the same way if I were running it. The vast majority of customers probably don't even know the difference, *it's just a friggin' box*!
> 
> Look at my sig; I wanted a specific model, I went and got it. If you don't like the way the lease program works, don't participate in it. It's not hard, I promise you! My only leased unit is the one that came with the system. Pay the extra cost that it's worth to you to get what you want, and do whatever you need to do to maintain it.


Just a box, yup your right Matt my HR22 was just as quick if not FASTER than my HR24. Charging people the same price for a pos refurb and a HR24 yea that's fair. Great policy right? No kidding I can go buy my own, I know it's not hard but a lot of people get the shaft because they don't know they have to go online to buy a box. I agree with you, most people don't know the difference at all so why is it so hard for them to give you a certain model if most people could care less?


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Why not just quit with new boxes? That's what the cable company seems to have done here. They are all old, nasty, and slow.

Scrap all HR20s. Done, no more go out, any that are off can't be turned on, but can be traded in for this following model. No more HR24s, send those back for a once in a lifetime lease fee refund. Yank the drives, scrap the rest of the parts. From now on, remove all badging from the remaining units. Switch all HD DVR customers over to SWM so BBCs will not be required. Put the same 500GB in all units, since they are now all the same. Never change the faceplate or housing no matter the condition. Now all the 21/22/23 units are identical, and that's all that's available.

Now everyone is happy, right?


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Sim-X said:


> Just a box, yup your right Matt my HR22 was just as quick if not FASTER than my HR24. Charging people the same price for a pos refurb and a HR24 yea that's fair. Great policy right? No kidding I can go buy my own, I know it's not hard but a lot of people get the shaft because they don't know they have to go online to buy a box. I agree with you, most people don't know the difference at all so why is it so hard for them to give you a certain model if most people could care less?


I'm pretty sure the cable companies all charge the same amount for their HD-DVRs no matter which model you get, or how fast they are, how big the hard drives are (and some of the hard drives are tiny, I think my parents can only record 10-15hrs of HD). And like I've said before they don't exactly let you pick and choose the model at will.

In order for DirecTV to start letting people pick and choose exactly which receiver they want it would be a major overhaul to their entire inventory and processing system. They have millions or receivers in (dozens? of) warehouses all over the US that would need to be kept track of seperately for each model instead of just as a HD receiver and HD-DVR. That is a huge expenditure that just wouldn't be feasible to do for the very small number of people who would even care about it. That is not a good business decision.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Sim-X said:


> I'm sure the average customer knows they have to go on to solid signal and mail order a box because dtv can't make any promises.


Your logic is circular.

Correct, the average customer does not know about solid signal. The average customer also does not know about the difference between boxes.

The small minority that know the differences between boxes, also know (or should know) about solid signal and that if they want a specific box for $200, there's a way to get it.

The current business model satisfies both of those customer types.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

Sim-X said:


> It's not, but there is more to running a business than just making profit. *Sure charging people full price for refurb models is profitable*, how can it not be? Does that mean it is the right decision in the long run? Of course not, I'm sure a lot of people have dumped DTV because of it.


$199 for an HD DVR is *not* full price.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> $199 for an HD DVR is *not* full price.


Don't bring facts/reality into this as it's makes it harder to have a good rant. :lol:


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Sim-X said:


> Just a box, yup your right Matt my HR22 was just as quick if not FASTER than my HR24.* Charging people the same price for a pos refurb and a HR24 yea that's fair*. Great policy right? No kidding I can go buy my own, I know it's not hard but a lot of people get the shaft because they don't know they have to go online to buy a box. I agree with you, most people don't know the difference at all so why is it so hard for them to give you a certain model if most people could care less?


I ask again...why is it so unfair when it costs less than cable boxes which, while being more expensive over time, are just as likely to be refurbs?

It's almost a double standard. On one hand you think it's ok for cable go give people refurbs. On the other hand, even though the out of pocket is less, since DirecTV wants an upfront fee, that's not ok. :scratchin

Mike


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Davenlr said:


> Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you.


Oh brother, it's pointless.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.


First off, we've gone through this before. You're talking apples to oranges. DirecTV isn't recycling 10 year old DVRs. There is an extent to the refurb cycle, and there is much more to electronics refurb than to auto resale.

Second, your cell phone analogy is flawed, since you own the phone despite the contract.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> First off, we've gone through this before. You're talking apples to oranges. DirecTV isn't recycling 10 year old DVRs. There is an extent to the refurb cycle, and there is much more to electronics refurb than to auto resale.
> 
> Second, your cell phone analogy is flawed, since you own the phone despite the contract.


You can defend the policy if you like. *I* wont be using refurb or used equipment on a new install for anything, cable or sat. Xfinity had NO problem giving me a brand new in box leased unit, brand new in box cable modem, and the other unit was a new Tivo I purchased myself. I always had new DirecTv equipment as well. They were always willing to credit my account for going to Best Buy to get my upgrades.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> You can defend the policy if you like. *I* wont be using refurb or used equipment on a new install for anything, cable or sat. Xfinity had NO problem giving me a brand new in box leased unit, brand new in box cable modem, and the other unit was a new Tivo I purchased myself. I always had new DirecTv equipment as well. They were always willing to credit my account for going to Best Buy to get my upgrades.


And that's your choice, So why complain?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> And that's your choice, So why complain?


I am not complaining about anything. Just stating my opinion like everyone else on this board does.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.


That's nowhere near the same thing. Cable companies have been doing it for decades. When we needed a box we went down to the office and we got one off the shelf and it was likely one that someone else had returned. This is nothing new so I'm not sure why everyone is so up in arms over it.

Mike


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> I am not complaining about anything. Just stating my opinion like everyone else on this board does.


Complaint:  complaint (an expression of grievance or resent)



Davenlr said:


> Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.


Complaint.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Discuss the Topic not Each Other.

:backtotop

Mike


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

BattleZone said:


> ...DirecTV requires a 2-year programming commitment, starting from the activation date of any leased receiver...
> 
> ...DirecTV does NOT promise, advertise, or guarantee that you will receive any particular model or submodel of receiver.
> 
> ...in markets that don't have HD locals available via satellite, if you plan to use an OTA antenna for HD locals, you can advise DirecTV that you need your receiver to have OTA capability, and they will send you a refurb H20 or HR20, which are the only models to have built-in OTA tuners...


I'm sure we all appreciate the amount of work that went in to your post.

Unfortunately, and I really don't want to be a skunk at your garden party here, but some of the information is just not accurate.

For example, a 2-year commitment is typical for new customers or for customers moving from SD to HD (even though they gouge us another $10 for that privilege), but adding a new receiver does not necessarily restart the clock, whether you are within the 2-year period or already out of it. I am living proof of both of those scenarios not causing further commitment.

It is also not true that they don't promise; they sometimes do, yet fail to keep that promise. It appears that quite often (if the forums are any guide) poorly-informed CSRs may innocently promise and then be later over-ruled by the shipping department (CSRs should read your post more than anyone).

They also promise and sometimes keep the promise: and requesting (successfully) a HR20 is also possible even if you live in a "served" market. I am fond of the HR20 (comparatively speaking) and have requested the HR20 twice as a replacement, been promised an HR20, and had them follow through on that promise each time. And I live in a top-5 city with 18 locals including all that carry HD available on sat (this is not DISH, after all), so it is unlikely that I just got lucky twice (with 5 models available, odds are 25 to 1 against). Again, living proof. I _was_ careful to mention that the reason I wanted an HR20 was because I wanted to receive subchannels that DTV does not carry; maybe that is the key. Each time the CSR indicated they would write that on the order and assured me it would not likely be a problem to get the HR20. And each time, the HR20 was what showed up (they even doulble shipped me once, so I have replacement parts available on the shelf).

But never fear, the forum has editing capability.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

TomCat said:


> It is also not true that they don't promise; they sometimes do, yet fail to keep that promise. It appears that quite often (if the forums are any guide) poorly-informed CSRs may innocently promise and then be later over-ruled by the shipping department (CSRs should read your post more than anyone).


DirecTV, as a company, does not promise a specific model. This is stated over and over again in their sales literature. Granted, it's poor training when CSRs promise something, but you simply have no way of knowing if their promises are due to a lack of training, laziness to read corporate policy, or impatience to get you off the phone to improve their call stats.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

At least the saving grace of this thread is that it draws all of this empty headedness away from the rest of the forum


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

TomCat said:


> ...
> 
> They also promise and sometimes keep the promise: and requesting (successfully) a HR20 is also possible even if you live in a "served" market. I am fond of the HR20 (comparatively speaking) and have requested the HR20 twice as a replacement, been promised an HR20, and had them follow through on that promise each time. And I live in a top-5 city with 18 locals including all that carry HD available on sat (this is not DISH, after all), so it is unlikely that I just got lucky twice (with 5 models available, odds are 25 to 1 against). *Again, living proof. I was careful to mention that the reason I wanted an HR20 was because I wanted to receive subchannels that DTV does not carry; maybe that is the key*. Each time the CSR indicated they would write that on the order and assured me it would not likely be a problem to get the HR20. And each time, the HR20 was what showed up (they even doulble shipped me once, so I have replacement parts available on the shelf).
> 
> But never fear, the forum has editing capability.


I guess you didn't see this part:


> *Yes, there ARE a handful of exceptions where specific models are sent out. For example, in markets that don't have HD locals available via satellite, if you plan to use an OTA antenna for HD locals, you can advise DirecTV that you need your receiver to have OTA capability, and they will send you a refurb H20 or HR20, which are the only models to have built-in OTA tuners. Of course, you give up certain capabilities: the H20 has no networking capabilities (no Whole Home service) and the HR20 can't do 3D.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> DirecTV, as a company, does not promise a specific model. This is stated over and over again in their sales literature.


Exactly. There is NO DirecTV-approved promise or guarantee of any specific model.

Yes, some *individual CSRs* my violate company policy and promise you a specific model, but those CSRs are no more "right" than the McDonalds employee who makes you a burger with a 20-minute-expired burger patty. Does it happen? Yes, we all know it does. Is it *supposed to happen*? No. Is it sanctioned by the company? No.

That was my point.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> DirecTV, as a company, does not promise a specific model.


They do to some extent. If you have a HR20 and state that you use OTA you get a HR20 as a replacement. Also, lately it seems that boxes are being replaced with the same model number( ex. HR22 gets another HR22). They can accommodate the small percentage of customers that ask for the superior HR24, they choose not to.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

dirtyblueshirt said:


> $199 for an HD DVR is *not* full price.


$199 *IS* the full price that DirecTV charges for a leased, not owned, HD-DVR. Whether $199 covers DirecTV's cost of a DVR is another matter.

I suspect most people don't pay this full price. I know I didn't.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> $199 *IS* the full price that DirecTV charges for a leased, not owned, HD-DVR. Whether $199 covers DirecTV's cost of a DVR is another matter.
> 
> I suspect most people don't pay this full price. I know I didn't.


I believe dirtyblueshirt was responding to the comment that someone pays the full price for a refurbished DVR of $199. While that is what DirecTV charges, it is not the full cost of a DVR

- Merg


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Joe C said:


> They do to some extent. If you have a HR20 and state that you use OTA you get a HR20 as a replacement.


While it is true that they do DO this, I have never seen a corporate-approved, intended-for-customers'-eyes document promising such fulfillment, nor any advertising stating such. Have you? Anyone?


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

BattleZone said:


> While it is true that they do DO this, I have never seen a corporate-approved, intended-for-customers'-eyes document promising such fulfillment, nor any advertising stating such. Have you? Anyone?


I sure haven't. They are just being nice and swapping workhorse for workhorse.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Joe C said:


> They do to some extent. If you have a HR20 and state that you use OTA you get a HR20 as a replacement. Also, lately it seems that boxes are being replaced with the same model number( ex. HR22 gets another HR22). They can accommodate the small percentage of customers that ask for the superior HR24, they choose not to.


Model number for model number is a fluke and is not impacted any way by an agent or the system. The OTA scenario is the only time a person has any impact on anything and they still don't promise. I've know of people getting a non 20 and an AM 21. Probably due to the warehouse being out of 20's at the time. So the policy has to do with OTA not a specific receiver. It's also a priority model not a guaranteed model. They won't not ship a receiver if they don't have a 20 on hand.

24's so far seem to be replaced with 24's on accounts with MRV active but again no person has the ability to order one specifically. If it's a system rule then the system automatically does it. However again nowhere does it ever say that they will do it so they don't have to. Would you accept not having a receiver if there wasn't a 24 on hand?

Agents don't want to have more confrontation then they have to. So if something proves to be true more often than not to them they go with it. They also believe things that other people tell them so if one agent says this will happen why would they call them a liar. This is true with any company and any work place. If you get an agent that promises you a model ask them how they did it. A notation on a work order is irrelevant. They can't notate anything for a drop shipped order so ask them if they specifically selected a model number. If they say they did I would just hang up and get somenoe else.

So once again DIRECTV does not in any way guarantee a model of a receiver. Agents cannot do so when you order them. Anything else that happens is because of rules setup, or lack there of, in the system which can be changed without notice and with no reason given because they can.

Argue all you want but that's the bottom line. I get people not happy with the policy but for people to argue with it is laughable. I can guarantee none of the people arguing work for DIRECTV and have any real knowledge of their inventory management system but they're sure how it works.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Shades228 said:


> Would you accept not having a receiver if there wasn't a 24 on hand?


Yes, if it meant trading my HR24-x00 for a HR21-100, I would wait it out with a spare. :lol:


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> Would you accept not having a receiver if there wasn't a 24 on hand?


I would wait for a 24. After living through hell with HR22's I will not go back. So once again the whole policy is garbage as are the HR 21-23's for that matter.


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## t_h (Mar 7, 2008)

The Merg said:


> I believe dirtyblueshirt was responding to the comment that someone pays the full price for a refurbished DVR of $199. While that is what DirecTV charges, it is not the full cost of a DVR


Having access (via subscription, so alas I cannot share) to the true build costs of the directv receivers, you are absolutely correct. Its doesnt cost $199 to make a directv receiver.

It costs somewhat less than that. But I suspect that isnt the point you were trying to make. A new directv receiver on average costs about $150 to make, and they get it back at the end of the 'lease' and charge you monthly, so they make a tidy profit on every HD DVR 'sold', plus whatever they bring in on the programming fee. Triple and quadruple dipping at its finest.

As I've mentioned in years past, its sad that directv pretends to not have a receiver database model that lets them determine what receiver a customer will receive, because they have that exact database. But if they let anyone know that, then everyone who has internet access and reads pretty much any of the 32,000,000 articles that tell them what receivers stink and which ones dont would then want a good one.

Dont believe it? Then why couldnt you get a bunch of HD DVR's and then return something else like an old tivo HD receiver? Ah yes, because they have a database. What if a fire burned down a warehouse? Of course they'd know how many and what type of receiver was lost for insurance purposes, because they have a database.

Still think they dont know exactly what kind, how many and which kind they ship to a customer and have no control of that? Come on man, its 2011.

And as we know, its all about cost. Not customer satisfaction.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

t_h said:


> Having access (via subscription, so alas I cannot share) to the true build costs of the directv receivers, you are absolutely correct. Its doesnt cost $199 to make a directv receiver.
> 
> It costs somewhat less than that. But I suspect that isnt the point you were trying to make. A new directv receiver on average costs about $150 to make, and they get it back at the end of the 'lease' and charge you monthly, so they make a tidy profit on every HD DVR 'sold', plus whatever they bring in on the programming fee. Triple and quadruple dipping at its finest.
> 
> ...


Good to see you're still around! And still making sense. 

Rich


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

t_h said:


> As I've mentioned in years past, its sad that directv pretends to not have a receiver database model that lets them determine what receiver a customer will receive, because they have that exact database.


They know what you have on your account in the database, yes.

As far as what a customer is going to get, you really don't understand how it works.

Far more than 90% of receivers get to customers via a tech. When you schedule an install or upgrade, DirecTV has no idea what tech will be doing your install, much less exactly what equipment that tech will have on-hand that day.

Example: It's Jan 1, and you order a new install. Your install is set up for Jan 6. How can you expect DirecTV to know what equipment some random tech is going to have 5 days from your order date? Oh, but then, something comes up, and you've got to go out of town, and now you're going to reschedule for the 15th. Whatever inventory might have been available on the 6th is not necessarily available on the 15th.

A local DirecTV warehouse doesn't get to order receivers by model; they only order by receiver type. And very often, they don't get as many as they ask for, especially when inventories are low. So, it is very common for a warehouse to look at their volume for the next week and order, say, 3,000 HD-DVRs. What arrives a few days later? 1800 refurb HR21s and 300 HR24s. Typically, then, several of the field supervisors load up their vans with HR24s to dole out for calls that they feel "really need them". So, 100 HR24s are set aside that way, and 200 are left to be randomly distributed to the techs that week.

The next day, nearly all HR24s issued to techs are likely going to have been installed. The rest of the week, everything installed is going to be an HR21, at least until the DECAs run out, and then techs will have to beg their supervisors for an HR24.

Keep in mind, too, that many of the installers are subcontractors. A sub may have, say, 10 installers, but all equipment is checked out to the one subcontractor, and DirecTV has no information on which installer for that sub has what equipment.

So, given all that, DirecTV has little interest in promising any particular model number. It would result in tons of reschedules and cancelations because of people waiting for their model number to be available, as well as a bunch of receivers piling up that no one wanted while jobs waited on hold for "the new hotness" to be available.

That isn't gonna happen.

Even if you argued that DirecTV has much better control of the receivers they ship out directly (and they do), the same basic thing applies: everyone would want the latest receiver. That would defeat one of the benefits of the lease model for DirecTV, and that isn't in their best interest.

So, we're back to this: there is already a solution for those folks who want what they want, and that is DirecTV retailers. If you must have a specific model, there are retailers at your disposal to help you.

If you are trying to get a "deal" by working directly with DirecTV, who can undercut the deals that retailers can offer, fine, but know up-front that you're going to get whatever model you get, and aren't going to have control over that.

You can't have it both ways.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

Sim-X said:


> I agree, if enough people leave and complain it will change. The problem you have people here that stand by the horrible policy and try and justify DTV's actions even know it's complete bs. DTV has such a bad reputation, "F" rating BBB, yea that's great for your company imagine. I don't need to hear trolls saying the BBB is stupid bla bla. I actually kinda agree it is, but the bottom line people use the bbb all the time and trust them. The BBB understands a business will have complaints. If complaints are properly resolved, there is no way you will have an "F" rating. Clearly they are not doing something right.
> 
> I don't know how you guys can sit here and defend an "F" rated company. The policy is wack and you guys know it. This policy by no means helps the business rating.


And if you're that unhappy with this "F" rated company's policies, why do YOU stick with them?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

BattleZone said:


> They know what you have on your account in the database, yes.
> 
> As far as what a customer is going to get, you really don't understand how it works.
> 
> ...


Well said. This is a great example and makes perfect sense. Why people don't understand this is beyond me.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> And if you're that unhappy with this "F" rated company's policies, why do YOU stick with them?


It's quite unfortunate that D* let this happen. I've been treated so well for the last few years it's mind boggling. For D* to have a poorer rating than Verizon is also mind boggling and leads me to believe that there is a disconnect in the way the BBB itself does business.

Rich


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

rich584 said:


> It's quite unfortunate that D* let this happen. I've been treated so well for the last few years it's mind boggling. For D* to have a poorer rating than Verizon is also mind boggling and leads me to believe that there is a disconnect in the way the BBB itself does business.
> 
> Rich


BBB has been raked over the coals as much as anyone else in the past few years for shoddy practices.

That said, Verizon gets no points from me for good customer service. My FiOS internet and phone service is excellent for the most part but when there's a billing problem or they make some other mistake it takes an awful lot of effort to get it resolved.

I've only had one billing problem in four years with DirecTV and that took three months to resolve.

Best customer service I've ever had was from Apple. They not only replaced my broken ear buds for my iPod Touch quickly but the replacement buds included a built-in microphone. It helps that the Apple store is about a mile from my house.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> It's quite unfortunate that D* let this happen. I've been treated so well for the last few years it's mind boggling. For D* to have a poorer rating than Verizon is also mind boggling and leads me to believe that there is a disconnect in the way the BBB itself does business.
> 
> Rich


The BBB is a scam. Have you seen ABCs 20/20 exposure of them? If you don't pay the BBB their fees, then your company gets shafted. This applies to huge businesses all the way down to small 1 person businesses.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

rich584 said:


> It's quite unfortunate that D* let this happen. I've been treated so well for the last few years it's mind boggling. For D* to have a poorer rating than Verizon is also mind boggling and leads me to believe that there is a disconnect in the way the BBB itself does business.
> 
> Rich


Verizon must pay the BBB more money


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

wingrider01 said:


> Verizon must pay the BBB more money


Or ANY money.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> And if you're that unhappy with this "F" rated company's policies, why do YOU stick with them?


For the same reason that YOU will stick with your local water or power company even though you are very unhappy with them.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

DeweySat said:


> For the same reason that YOU will stick with your local water or power company even though you are very unhappy with them.


So you are unable to switch to a cable or FIOS system? Surely you could get DISH installed??

With regulated utilities such as power and water, the alternative choices tend to be very expensive and impractical. Big difference between them and TV services.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> So you are unable to switch to a cable or FIOS system? Surely you could get DISH installed??
> 
> With regulated utilities such as power and water, the alternative choices tend to be very expensive and impractical. Big difference between them and TV services.


Yes, I could go back to cable or sign up with Dish. No FIOS. The point being that the options are extremely limited. Can't even get OTA. As one who has been with DirecTV since the beginning, I just hate to see the lack of real customer service that has evolved since the creation of the leasing business model. I think the only way they get away with it is that electronic equipment in general these days is very reliable. So those that have to be subjected to the lease nasties are only a small percentage of the total DirecTV base.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

DeweySat said:


> Yes, I could go back to cable or sign up with Dish. No FIOS. The point being that the options are extremely limited. Can't even get OTA. As one who has been with DirecTV since the beginning, I just hate to see the lack of real customer service that has evolved since the creation of the leasing business model. I think the only way they get away with it is that electronic equipment in general these days is very reliable. So those that have to be subjected to the lease nasties are only a small percentage of the total DirecTV base.


OK, you do have some choices, and I am glad for you on that.

My point was that TV providers are very different from utilities which are generally regulated by PUCs.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> My point was that TV providers are very different from utilities which are generally regulated by PUCs.


And TV providers are very different from each other.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> So you are unable to switch to a cable or FIOS system? Surely you could get DISH installed??
> 
> With regulated utilities such as power and water, the alternative choices tend to be very expensive and impractical. Big difference between them and TV services.


However, there is an increasing number of municipal utility companies that are moving into providing TV and broadband services. Groton, CT provides cable, voice, & broadband now and my town (Norwich) is also considering getting into it. Everything they do is subject to the same public tax payer scrutiny and FOIA as the other utilities and they're very competitively priced.

You're right, there is a really big difference between them and the national service providers. The tax payers have a say in how it's run, what services they provide, and the pricing structures...ok the big difference is I'm talking about a municipal utility and not a private company so it's not quite what you meant but it is and interesting trend. :grin:

Mike


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Heck, yeah, *that is very interesting*!

To whom can you complain about lack of certain HD channels?? 

Who negotiates (The Mayor? Another committee?) with the HBOs and ESPNs of the world? (Though the latter seems quite absent)

Are the fees they pay open to public scrutiny? Can the town prudes shut down access to Playboy TV?

The Primo package seems pretty good!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Heck, yeah, *that is very interesting*!
> 
> To whom can you complain about lack of certain HD channels??
> 
> ...


 They have a Board of Directors. You can read the monthly & special meeting minutes on the city's website. They're corporation formed by city ordinance and subject to all the same requirements as any other municipal department. The monthly meetings are public (except for executive session of course), and special meetings have to be publicly posted and in the legal section of the local paper just like any other city department.

The Board of Directors oversees all the negotiations for carriage.



Laxguy said:


> Can the town prudes shut down access to Playboy TV?


Apparently not because they carry it. :grin:



Laxguy said:


> The Primo package seems pretty good!


It is pretty nice.

Mike


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Oops.....sorry....opened the wrong door to the wrong room....

...thought this was about specific receiver model replacements....

...excuse me....go about your business....


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

"DeweySat" said:


> For the same reason that YOU will stick with your local water or power company even though you are very unhappy with them.


I'm unhappy with my local water & power company? Really? Since when?

Unlike the water & power company, there are MANY choices for TV programming. If you're complaining about subscribing to an "F" rated company for your TV service, then switch.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Oops.....sorry....opened the wrong door to the wrong room....
> 
> ...thought this was about specific receiver model replacements....
> 
> ...excuse me....go about your business....


Abuse is down the hall; This is Arguments!

No, it isn't!

Yes, it is!

No, ......


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## jonquiljo1 (Apr 30, 2011)

Well, it's gotten pretty sleazy with all these companies. You pay $199 to "lease" something that likely cost much much less to build and buy at cost. You then are on the hook for up to $480 by your "commitment" - when buying or leasing a receiver is a commitment.

Now I can see how there are lots of people who mess with DTV, get a receiver, don't pay - and flake on them. Collections are tough and they get stuck with the losses. But that's part of doing business!

If you've been with DTV for 5 or 10 years, they should realize that you have been with them and are not the "here today gone tomorrow" type. They likely get $80+ a month from you, which is $1000 a year - just for regular service.

Three things I see wrong: First, this is not like a smartphone where they are subsidizing the purchase price substantially. In fact, you don't ever own the thing anyway. Secondly, it's not like you are using bandwidth that is limited. The satellite signals they transmit are there and don't need to be shared with others. Basically they don't need to increase capacity because lots of users in a town utilize their service. Finally, "commitments" are not the way to keep "long-standing" customers in your fold. Providing a better service is the way to achieve that.

So when DirectTv refuses to sell you a current model (guaranteed) and instead charges you $199 for a lease on a likely used, older model - all with a $480 commitment for service that costs a good amount of money anyway - you are being taken advantage of. Electronics are cheap disposables in 2011 - and no one can deny that. Good long-term customers are hard to find. It's not the money that matters to those of us who find this offensive, its the principle of being treated like trash.

The only reason DTV gets away with it is because all providers treat customers like trash in the end. Oh, they may "hook" you with special offers - but when the offer expires, watch out! Contracts should be allowed to expire after a certain time period, and no one should be made to keep their commitment to get the most up to date equipment. They should just get the equipment as part of ongoing service. This is DirectTv's way of passing off the costs of it's deadbeat customers to those of us who play the game fairly with them for years.

Doesn't that make you feel a bit "dirty" - and wouldn't you "jump" at the chance if someone set up shop and offered a similar service with a better attitude? Remember, years ago everyone thought that all the Bell systems were going to be forever. It was "the phone company". Well, the phone company learned the hard way. If they had provided service that people felt was fair and reasonable, then they would likely still be around. But the world changed, and people got tired of leasing phones and paying a monopoly each month - with overcharging at each step.

Happy customers keep a company going. Companies can always fall apart or be dismantled. Loyal customers can save them. This policy does not make loyal customers. It makes customer wary of every thing that DTV does.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

So many things in your post are illogical that I won't even try.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> I'm unhappy with my local water & power company? Really? Since when?
> 
> Unlike the water & power company, there are MANY choices for TV programming. If you're complaining about subscribing to an "F" rated company for your TV service, then switch.


I didn't say you were unhappy. It was merely an example of utility type items that are difficult to change. The TV choices for me are DirecTV, Dish Network and one cable company. So my choices beyond DirecTV are just Dish and cable. Not much of a choice.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

DeweySat said:


> *I didn't say you were unhappy.* It was merely an example of utility type items that are difficult to change. The TV choices for me are DirecTV, Dish Network and one cable company. So my choices beyond DirecTV are just Dish and cable. Not much of a choice.


Really?



DeweySat said:


> For the same reason that YOU will stick with your local water or power company *even though you are very unhappy with them.*


I'm sorry...you didn't say *WHAT*?

Read what you post. I sure as hell did. :grin:


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Oops.....sorry....opened the wrong door to the wrong room....
> 
> ...thought this was about specific receiver model replacements....
> 
> ...excuse me....go about your business....


Think I'm lost too, can't find the specific model of receiver thread.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Really?
> 
> I'm sorry...you didn't say *WHAT*?
> 
> Read what you post. I sure as hell did. :grin:


The statement was never meant to be taken literally, which you obviously did.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

Just yesterday during chat their agent told me that ALL of their machines are the 500 gig hard drives now, that that is all they have. I guess they will tell you anything to get you to sign up. I am sure glad I found this thread.

And right this minute my husband is on the phone with a CSR who is promising him a 500 gig hard drive. It will be interesting to see what really happens.

That cable company that we all know also promised us a 500 gig hard drive and gave us a 120 gig. The installer stood right here by our TV and even lied to us that it WAS a 500 gig hard drive.

So we are cancelling with that cable company and going back to DirecTV. I sure hope we get the upgraded machine. We will see, I guess.

(Hi all! New here, have read here frequently but finally signed up.. I sort of feel like I know a few of you already, even though you have no clue who I am)


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

jaxtoo said:


> Just yesterday during chat their agent told me that ALL of their machines are the 500 gig hard drives now, that that is all they have. I guess they will tell you anything to get you to sign up. I am sure glad I found this thread.
> 
> And right this minute my husband is on the phone with a CSR who is promising him a 500 gig hard drive. It will be interesting to see what really happens.


Mine did the same thing, and forgot to mention the extra $10 HD fee. That's the problem with this thread -- it represents D*'s POLICY, but it's not what is actually DONE.

It's sad that they have a "third-party" agent go over your order after the D* agent is done with you. But it is the right thing to do. It makes the terms of the lease clearer (well, sort of). And the third-party agent did tell me about the $10 HD fee. But she did NOT correct the promise of the HR24.

It's OK, I called the installation company directly, they noted there was NO promise anywhere in their notes, and I had them put in a request for an HR24. It was granted. This is the best way to get what you want, but even that is not guaranteed unless you are firm.

So far, my experience with the HR24 is much better than my experience with the HR20 and HR21 models two years ago. So it is worth a try.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

We just finished the sign up.... we did not have any 3rd party agent. Plus, right now the HD fees are waived. We got a really good deal considering that we technically are not new customers, we had only been gone for a few days.

How do we find out who the installation company is so that we could call them, they did not give us that info? I guess we should have asked but I did not know to do so.

They "say" we are getting the HR24 with the 620 gig hard drive. If they show up without it, they will get turned away at the door.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

Called back and they cannot tell us who the installer is? Say what? But they did tell us to just refuse the box if it is not the correct one, which I had planned on doing anyway.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

The installers that have come to our house arrive in a van with DirecTV emblazoned all over the outside, and a shirt that says DirecTV. Don't know if they are DirecTV employees, but they certainly identified with DirecTV and not some 3rd party company.

Maybe the CSR doesn't know who exactly will come to your house, but whatever department is responsible for installs probably does. When an installer came to our house last week to replace a defective HR24, he told me that he was substituting for the one that was assigned to our job because the other one was out of town.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jaxtoo said:


> They "say" we are getting the HR24 with the 620 gig hard drive.


HR24's only have 500gb drives.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

> HR24's only have 500gb drives.


That's what I thought, thanks for the confirmation. Clearly another CSR who doesn't know what they are talking about.

And I am quite sure they could have told us who the installer was, but frankly we have spent so many hours on the phone this week we are exhausted. Going to go with the plan of turning them away if they don't bring the right one and hope that all works out for us.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jaxtoo said:


> That's what I thought, thanks for the confirmation. Clearly another CSR who doesn't know what they are talking about.
> 
> And I am quite sure they could have told us who the installer was, but frankly we have spent so many hours on the phone this week we are exhausted. Going to go with the plan of turning them away if they don't bring the right one and hope that all works out for us.


Most of the front line CSR's don't know what a hard drive is let alone know what capacities they have available. I would never expect a front line CSR to know how big the drive in any of their DVRs is. To rely on them for that information is kinda silly.

As far as knowing who the installer is I really doubt they'd have that information. Some installers work directly for DirecTV and some are contractors, etc.

And turning away an installer because a CSR gave you bad information is silly. You're keeping that installer, who may not even work directly for DirecTV, from making money because you're being selfish.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jaxtoo said:


> We just finished the sign up.... we did not have any 3rd party agent. Plus, right now the HD fees are waived. *We got a really good deal considering that we technically are not new customers*, we had only been gone for a few days.
> 
> How do we find out who the installation company is so that we could call them, they did not give us that info? I guess we should have asked but I did not know to do so.
> 
> They "say" we are getting the HR24 with the 620 gig hard drive. *If they show up without it, they will get turned away at the door.*


could be a dangerous game


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> HR24's only have 500gb drives.


I saw that and wondered if anyone at D* can keep their stories straight. A 620GB drive? Why would someone tell a customer that? A CSR can't possibly have that on a script, can they?

Rich


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I saw that and wondered if anyone at D* can keep their stories straight. A 620GB drive? Why would someone tell a customer that? A CSR can't possibly have that on a script, can they?
> 
> Rich


AFAIK, they don't. Thats why I finding it funny and sad when people try and pry out technical details out of CSRs.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

RobertE said:


> AFAIK, they don't. Thats why I finding it funny and sad when people try and pry out technical details out of CSRs.


Yup - I expect a CSR to know the basic services on my account, the contents and pricing of those services, and billing information.

Beyond that...it becomes a "known" rolling-of-the-dice exercise. 

If I want technical or functional information...I come to DBSTalk.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

> And turning away an installer because a CSR gave you bad information is silly. You're keeping that installer, who may not even work directly for DirecTV, from making money because you're being selfish.


Being selfish? You are kidding me. That was the deal we struck and we are sticking to it. We spent hours, and I do mean hours, on the phone with them, making sure that we got the deal we wanted. Why should I accept a box that is equal to or even lesser, than what I already have here? Now that would be silly.



spartanstew said:


> could be a dangerous game


And dangerous how? We still have our old box and are hooked up. And we are still hooked up to cable at the moment too. Right now we have TOO many connections, so losing one of them, either one of them, is really not a big deal.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> AFAIK, they don't. Thats why I finding it funny and sad when people try and pry out technical details out of CSRs.


*jaxtoo* is gonna have an interesting time getting used to what we consider "normal" for D* and their employees....:lol:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jaxtoo said:


> Being selfish? You are kidding me. That was the deal we struck and we are sticking to it. We spent hours, and I do mean hours, on the phone with them, making sure that we got the deal we wanted. Why should I accept a box that is equal to or even lesser, than what I already have here? Now that would be silly.
> 
> And dangerous how? We still have our old box and are hooked up. And we are still hooked up to cable at the moment too. Right now we have TOO many connections, so losing one of them, either one of them, is really not a big deal.


Both of them have a point and they're right. You're not dealing with a corporation that goes out of it's way to train the folks that work for them. Have patience, be polite and persistent. You'll get used to it. And come here for help. Herein lies the knowledge base for D*. All things considered, you're not gonna find a better provider.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jaxtoo said:


> Being selfish? You are kidding me. That was the deal we struck and we are sticking to it. We spent hours, and I do mean hours, on the phone with them, making sure that we got the deal we wanted. Why should I accept a box that is equal to or even lesser, than what I already have here? Now that would be silly.


No, I'm not kidding. There are no "deals" when it comes to what unit you will get, that's the whole point of this thread, regardless of how many hours you spent on the phone. Did you actually read the first post in this thread?? There is NO WAY a CSR can promise you a specific model DVR. Thinking a CSR has the ability to promise a specific model is like thinking a weatherman is going to be right with his forecast.

Why should you accept a box that is equal to or even lesser? They all do the same thing! The only differences are hard drive space, HR20's have build in OTA and in some cases speed. They are functionally identical and there's no reason to throw a tempter tantrum if you don't get what you want.

There is no HR24 with a 620gb drive. So if you're holding out for what you were "promised", even though such promises can't be made, and will turn away an installer if he doesn't show up with an HR24 with 620gb drive then just cancel your appointment now and stick to cable.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

So the title of the thread is in error. Directv DOES promise (etc) but don't expect they will always fulfill the promise. 

Might be more accurate.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

rich584 said:


> *jaxtoo* is gonna have an interesting time getting used to what we consider "normal" for D* and their employees....:lol:
> 
> Rich


I didn't just fall off the turnip truck... have been with them for many many years and this is not my first go around with them, or you guys here at the forums. I may have never posted, but have been reading here a long time now, off and on.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

Oh I certainly understand loud and clear that they cannot promise anything. But that does not mean I have to accept it. Nor does it mean I am being "silly" if I do not. I am totally within my rights to turn away their service if they do not give me what they said they would.

And yes, I do realize that there is no 620 gig hard drive and that we will not get that. But we were promised an HR24 and whether they can promise that or not, that is all that we will accept. And we have that right. If they don't give us one, they loose our business, plain and simple. There are other providers and we have no problem going to a different one if that is what happens.

Again, yes, I do understand that a CSR cannot promise you something, or anything, for that matter. But once they do promise you something, you have the right to refuse it if its not what they promised. It becomes their problem at that point.

If a person is willing to accept a lesser service, then that's their decision. It does not mean it has to be my decision.

And if that is your definition of a temper tantrum, so be it. In my view, I am just standing up for what I want. And yes, there is a big deal difference between an HR21 and an HR24, and its not just space, although for me, that is the big issue. That and how differently the remote responds.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jaxtoo said:


> Oh I certainly understand loud and clear that they cannot promise anything. But that does not mean I have to accept it.


No, you don't have to. You can stay with cable. If you don't like the way DirecTV does business then don't do business with them. Don't expect them to change the way they do business just for you. You're no better than any other DirecTV customer and don't deserve anything more special than the rest of us. I don't get where people like you think you are entitled to things the rest of us aren't.



jaxtoo said:


> If a person is willing to accept a lesser service, then that's their decision. It does not mean it has to be my decision.


There is no "lesser service". The service is the same for all of us and there is no entitlement for anyone.



jaxtoo said:


> And yes, there is a big deal difference between an HR21 and an HR24, and its not just space, although for me, that is the big issue. That and how differently the remote responds.


As an owner of both HR21's and an HR24 I can tell you that there is no functional difference between them. Is the HR24 a bit snappier? Yes... Does it do things that the HR21 doesn't? NO... There is no difference between my HR21-700's that have an external 2TB drive and my HR24-500 with a 2TB external drive. The remote responds exactly the same for both.

If space is a big deal to you then I suggest getting an eSATA drive the size you want, up to 2TB, and hooking it up to the DVR.


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## rrdirectsr (Jan 30, 2011)

rich584 said:


> Both of them have a point and they're right. You're not dealing with a corporation that goes out of it's way to train the folks that work for them. Have patience, be polite and persistent. You'll get used to it. And come here for help. Herein lies the knowledge base for D*. All things considered, you're not gonna find a better provider.
> 
> Rich


I just wanted to respond here. I'm a tech rep and it was made quite clear to all of us that we never promise a certain model. D** does train correctly but you have people that choose the path of least resistance and only want to collect a check and get it in the most comfortable manner possible. Some of us take pride in what we do and would rather give accurate info and hear a little yelling by the customer than to deal with someone getting a nasty suprise later on.

All D** employees have access to all the same resources it's just some may not choose to use them. I'm sure you get that at any work place that has over 50,000 employees.

You are right about being polite. I tend to be willing to mention a few extra things that may help someone out if they are nice and not being sarcastic or disrespectful.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

In my case, when I didn't get what I wanted (a decent HR22), I went out and bought a new HR24 from a distributor. Then it failed, and my situation was turned over to case management. They were very quick to fix the problem by sending out a DirecTV technician who installed a new HR24 that does work. I recognize though, that my original problem started with an HR22, and I realized that the probability of me getting a new HR24 to replace it was slim to less than zero. So I paid $200 to get one. I couldn't go to Dish because I had a new 2-year contract for the HR24 I bought. I'm happy with the way things turned out.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

Well well well, seems to me there are a few bitter people here.

But I will give the update as I said I would. We got our HR24 as "promised". Our installer turned out to be a subcontractor who says they don't install anything BUT HR24's anymore. So even if we had not asked for one, we would have gotten one.

And, as an aside, we found out that for the last 6 years we have been getting less service than we have been paying for. Our dish was never hooked up properly. There were only two lines coming in and there were supposed to be four. According to the installer, that meant that we were not getting all of the HD channels that we should have been. And I certainly do notice that I now have way more HD channels than we had. Nonetheless, we are happy with our new situation.

Could we yell and scream about that and "throw a tantrum"? Certainly we could, but we are not. I can imagine that lots of folks around here would though. Six years of paying for something we did not get. I would not blame someone should they choose to get upset about a situation like that.

I just can't leave here without saying that I do not understand why people get upset because someone is willing to stick to their guns and get what they want. That just makes no sense to me at all. I have better things to do than be attacked over standing up for what I want. It's not like I have a gun to anyone's head or have done anything illegal, or even unethical.

Now I will leave and go somewhere where I won't be attacked for having an opinion.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

jaxtoo said:


> And, as an aside, we found out that for the last 6 years we have been getting less service than we have been paying for.
> 
> Could we yell and scream about that and "throw a tantrum"? Certainly we could, but we are not. I can imagine that lots of folks around here would though. Six years of paying for something we did not get. I would not blame someone should they choose to get upset about a situation like that.


I would simply call customer service and explain what happened. You would have the technician to back you up. I would be willing to bet that you will get some kind of credit for the lost channels. As long as it was DirecTV that installed the dish.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

How'd you not notice you weren't getting all the HD channels? You'd have noticed getting a Searching For Signal on the channels.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jaxtoo said:


> Well well well, seems to me there are a few bitter people here.
> 
> But I will give the update as I said I would. We got our HR24 as "promised". Our installer turned out to be a subcontractor who says they don't install anything BUT HR24's anymore. So even if we had not asked for one, we would have gotten one.
> 
> ...


A dish from 6 years ago would have been a Phase 3 dish not a Slimline or Sidecar. This is why you only had 2 cables coming in. That dish didn't have access to the MPEG 4 channels.

As far as people posting you have to also remember that some people on here are installers or know how things are. By sticking to your guns and if you had sent the installer away you would have cost him money. Do you care? Who knows but the fact that you posted you had no problem doing it is what people get upset about. There are ways to get things done if you want them done but most of the time new people come here and post how they expect to have a company redo their policies just for them. So you got lucky good for you but the bottom line is if you hadn't gotten lucky you would have inconvenienced other people who could have had their install done instead and cost the tech who came out money.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

sigma1914 said:


> How'd you not notice you weren't getting all the HD channels? You'd have noticed getting a Searching For Signal on the channels.


He wouldn't have even seen the channels because he had a Phase 3.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rrdirectsr said:


> I just wanted to respond here. I'm a tech rep and it was made quite clear to all of us that we never promise a certain model. D** does train correctly but you have people that choose the path of least resistance and only want to collect a check and get it in the most comfortable manner possible. Some of us take pride in what we do and would rather give accurate info and hear a little yelling by the customer than to deal with someone getting a nasty suprise later on.
> 
> All D** employees have access to all the same resources it's just some may not choose to use them. I'm sure you get that at any work place that has over 50,000 employees.


Yup, you see it everywhere you go. But in most instances, there is oversight. A "watcher" keeps an eye on what the people working under her/him are doing. And then there's a person watching the watcher and so on up the line. All the armed services are the same way. Very few companies would tolerate the types of complaints that D* gets. Those constant complaints about the same issues seem to have little impact on the way D* does business. It just seems to be part of their business model to ignore customer complaints. Seems to work pretty well.



> You are right about being polite. I tend to be willing to mention a few extra things that may help someone out if they are nice and not being sarcastic or disrespectful.


I've been treated really well by D*. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Another thought, the sarcasm and disrespect you hear is usually caused by frustration. Sometimes unwarranted, but mostly folks who just can't get their issue taken care of and have spent many hours trying. That kind of frustration is understandable.

Rich


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> He wouldn't have even seen the channels because he had a Phase 3.


Well, that's a bit more sense.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

Shades228 said:


> A dish from 6 years ago would have been a Phase 3 dish not a Slimeline or Sidecar. This is why you only had 2 cables coming in. That dish didn't have access to the MPEG 4 channels.


Good point. I didn't even think of that.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jaxtoo said:


> Well well well, seems to me there are a few bitter people here.
> 
> But I will give the update as I said I would. We got our HR24 as "promised". Our installer turned out to be a subcontractor who says they don't install anything BUT HR24's anymore. So even if we had not asked for one, we would have gotten one.
> 
> ...


If you were to go back to the first batch of posts each of us wrote after joining in on all the fun, you'd see that most of us wrote a post very similar to yours. From the advent of the first HRs, most of us felt the same way you do now at one time or another.

About the crappy installation and the loss of HD stations: Call Retention and tell them exactly what happened to you and you'll get all sorts of goodies. To get to Retention, you just answer the question about where to be directed by saying "cancel service". You'll be asked again if you really want to cancel your service. Say, "Yes." Then you'll get a Retention CSR who should give you quite a bit because you got screwed. And justifiably so.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

DeweySat said:


> Good point. I didn't even think of that.


Huh. Me neither. Seems like we've had this stuff for longer than five years, doesn't it? Hasn't even been five years yet. Yeah, that dish must have had two wires out. But he wasn't getting any HD channels off a two LNB dish was he? Later on, I mean, after the advent of the HRs.

Rich


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## rrdirectsr (Jan 30, 2011)

rich584 said:


> I've been treated really well by D*. I'm sure I'm not alone.
> 
> Another thought, the sarcasm and disrespect you hear is usually caused by frustration. Sometimes unwarranted, but mostly folks who just can't get their issue taken care of and have spent many hours trying. That kind of frustration is understandable.
> 
> Rich


That's understandable. I know how it feels because I have to call my cell phone provider 3 times to resolve 1 issue sometimes.

What I always say to the rep is "hey, i know I have never spoke to you before so I'm going to give you a chance to fix this. My issue is blah blah blah" then if I hear ignorance I politely end the call and call back.

If I get a rude agent then it is "game on" and I ask for a Sup after getting their agent id number.


----------



## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Huh. Me neither. Seems like we've had this stuff for longer than five years, doesn't it? Hasn't even been five years yet. Yeah, that dish must have had two wires out. But he wasn't getting any HD channels off a two LNB dish was he? Later on, I mean, after the advent of the HRs.
> 
> Rich


The last of the MPEG 2 channels, in the 70's, were removed last year iirc. So that means he would have had some HD for awhile and then it would have just gone away. He wouldn't have had any HD unless it was OTA after that.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

I was not going to jump back into the foray of this conversation, but I do need to comment on this:



> By sticking to your guns and if you had sent the installer away you would have cost him money. Do you care? Who knows but the fact that you posted you had no problem doing it is what people get upset about. There are ways to get things done if you want them done but most of the time new people come here and post how they expect to have a company redo their policies just for them. So you got lucky good for you but the bottom line is if you hadn't gotten lucky you would have inconvenienced other people who could have had their install done instead and cost the tech who came out money.


Sure I care, but we were instructed by DirecTV to do just that. They TOLD us to turn him away at the door if it was the wrong receiver. So I should just ignore everything I am told by this company and do only what you guys think is right? And no, I do not feel we got lucky, I feel we got what we were told we would get.

I cannot imagine what other goodies they could give us at this point. We got more goodies on our re-signing then we wanted, as far as freebies go. I told them we didn't really want all of their free HBO etc but we got it anyway (which is fine, I am sure that's just how it all gets turned back on, whatever). I am happy with our current package and service and I probably did not miss out on a whole lot because I could not get some channels in HD that I probably never even watch. I don't mind getting some of my shows in SD, it takes up less room on the drive (of course, depending on what the show is).

I do not understand everything about the dish hook up, but we did (and still do) have the dual LNB oval dish and the installer told us that there should have been 4 lines coming in and that there were only two and that the result was that we would not have gotten all of the HD channels we were entitled to. I understand my receiver really well, my husband is the one who understands all of the dish stuff. So I cannot explain our exact setup any better than that.

And one more thing, we were NEVER rude to any of these people at Directv during this process. There were no fits thrown or threats made. When we originally cancelled they OFFERED for us to have the new customer package with a FREE *upgrade* (which I am putting in bold to emphasize my original statement that going from an HR21 to an HR21 or lower is *not* an upgrade). We were told that we could have that offer any time in the next 30 days if we decided to come back. So we took them up on it. We didn't even have to ask for any of what we got, they offered it all.

So, if we got something that someone else didn't and that makes them mad at me, well sorry. Nobody here will ever convince me that we did anything wrong or that we would have been wrong to turn away the installer had they not had the correct equipment.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

jaxtoo said:


> I was not going to jump back into the foray of this conversation, but I do need to comment on this:
> 
> Sure I care, but we were instructed by DirecTV to do just that. They TOLD us to turn him away at the door if it was the wrong receiver. So I should just ignore everything I am told by this company and do only what you guys think is right? And no, I do not feel we got lucky, I feel we got what we were told we would get.
> 
> ...


DIRECTV does not designate any HD DVR to be different so the purpose of an upgrade order is not to get a different model of a HD DVR. Again it worked out for you, luckily, but that's not how it's designed or supported. If you want to get technical a H20 -700 is better than a H21 but I'm guessing you would call it a downgrade because the model number is lower. This isn't an attack on you but it just illustrates the fact that most people don't know what is what when it comes to the model numbers.

The purpose of this thread is to state that it doesn't matter what is said, implied, suggested, or anything else. The ordering system doesn't support ordering specific model numbers and DIRECTV doesn't care what model number you have or get except in very specific situations. So if he hand't had an HR24 and you rescheduled there is nothing to say they wouldn't again no matter how many times you rescheduled.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> There is no "lesser service". The service is the same for all of us and there is no entitlement for anyone.
> 
> As an owner of both HR21's and an HR24 I can tell you that there is no functional difference between them. Is the HR24 a bit snappier? Yes... Does it do things that the HR21 doesn't? NO... There is no difference between my HR21-700's that have an external 2TB drive and my HR24-500 with a 2TB external drive. The remote responds exactly the same for both.


Doesn't D* give out free stuff for being a loyal customer? I got the HR24 for free, the installation was free, and the CSR told me all the other things I was eligible for. Sounds like better service to me.

As an owner of a previous HR21 and current HR24, the remote response time is night and day. Some people are lucky and have fast response times with the other receivers. Not me. Also, the HR24 is smaller and has more capacity (FYI, you can't count the eSATA capability because it's not supported). Not to mention the HR24's hard drive is newer, hard drives are a wear item, and it does cost you some money and inconvenience when their equipment fails.

If they cost the same, why not try and get the newest model?


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

tyqwer said:


> When the picture they show you during order process is a picture of a specific box, then that is a promise of a certain model


As has been pointed out many times, it specifically says you may not get that box.

Not to mention, 90% of the customers don't know the difference. Would you rather they put up a picture of every single box? What if the box pictured was a -500 and you got a -100? Complain?


----------



## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

tyqwer said:


> Wrong, IF you show a picture of a box and that box has a design only attributed to one DVR, then that is a legal inference of what box you would be getting


Best prepare your lawsuit then, eh? Be sure to let us know how that goes.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> Doesn't D* give out free stuff for being a loyal customer? I got the HR24 for free, the installation was free, and the CSR told me all the other things I was eligible for. Sounds like better service to me.


I'm a loyal customer, where's my free stuff??? They don't give you free stuff just for being a "loyal customer" but apparently if you throw a tantrum they do something to pacify you. A customer like that is not "loyal" at all.



bobcamp1 said:


> As an owner of a previous HR21 and current HR24, the remote response time is night and day. Some people are lucky and have fast response times with the other receivers. Not me. Also, the HR24 is smaller and has more capacity (FYI, you can't count the eSATA capability because it's not supported). Not to mention the HR24's hard drive is newer, hard drives are a wear item, and it does cost you some money and inconvenience when their equipment fails.


Sorry your remote experience is so different than the rest of us but it is most certainly not the norm. My HR21's remote response is on par with my HR24. Now does my HR24 carry out the remote command faster, sure. That may be where people are confusing "remote response" with the speed of the unit itself. The IR/RF signal doesn't get to an HR24 any faster than it does an HR21.

As for eSATA drives you can count on them as long as you use a known working configuration and there are plenty of those. In most cases you can count on them more than the stock drives that the DVRs come with, even when they are new. You also get WAY more space with eSATA.



bobcamp1 said:


> If they cost the same, why not try and get the newest model?


Try all you want, no problem there, but don't act like a child and turn away an installer, who doesn't get paid when you do, because you don't get what you want. That's the biggest thing I have a problem with. Times are tough people, think of your "fellow man" and don't rob him of hard earned money because you want a specific DVR. In most cases they pay for the gas they put in their vehicle that they drive to your house using the gas they just paid for and after spending their hard earned money on gas to get to your house you turn them away? Come on...

Disclaimer: The term "your" is being used here as a general term and not against bobcamp1 specifically.


----------



## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

> Would you rather they put up a picture of every single box? What if the box pictured was a -500 and you got a -100? Complain?


Yes, I would complain if I was shown a 500 and got the 100.

Gosh, what is wrong with complaining if you don't get the service you expect. Maybe if more people would do that, they would be better about seeing that people had the setup they want.

RunnerFL, what about MY time and money? Oh, I see, that doesn't count. Only the installers time and money counts.

And I am tired of your inference of temper tantrums. I sure don't see anyone here in this thread who has thrown a tantrum and I know for sure that we have not.

Business in general is rife with customer service issues, a DTV installer is not the only person who might have an occasional inconvenience with a customer. I have been in customer service fields in the past too, its just part of the job that sometimes someone will cancel or need something replaced or whatever. It sounds to me like its the installers who are having temper tantrums because they might be occasionally inconvenienced. Instead they should be grateful that they still have a job.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

jaxtoo said:


> Yes, I would complain if I was shown a 500 and got the 100.
> 
> Gosh, what is wrong with complaining if you don't get the service you expect. Maybe if more people would do that, they would be better about seeing that people had the setup they want.


That's o.k. if one's expectations are in line with reality. Too many people have reading comprehension problems. Or just fail to read at all.


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

Laxguy said:


> That's o.k. if one's expectations are in line with reality. Too many people have reading comprehension problems. Or just fail to read at all.


I don't think it has anything to do with comprehension problems or failure to read. I totally understand everything everyone has said here.

But it does not mean that I have to agree with it, or think that it is right.

And I do not think its unrealistic to expect to get what you pay for.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Why should you accept a box that is equal to or even lesser? They all do the same thing! The only differences are hard drive space, HR20's have build in OTA and in some cases speed. They are *functionally identical* and there's no reason to throw a tempter tantrum if you don't get what you want.


Functionally identical?

You're kidding. I happen to like the fact that my HR20 has built-in OTA and the other units do not. That's a functional difference, IMO.

I'll grant that the difference between the 320 gb and 500 gb HD is a feature difference rather than a functional difference but it does almost double the recording capacity of the DVR when you take out the 100 gb that DirecTV reserves.

I don't see any evidence in this thread of the OP throwing a temper tantrum.

Incidentally, I was told by a Verizon CSR to turn away the installation of FiOS TV last year, an order that I had not placed with Verizon. She apparently could not cancel the service call even though I contacted Verizon three times well before the scheduled installation date. This seemed to be a fairly common happening as the tech was not at all upset when I turned him away.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jaxtoo said:


> Yes, I would complain if I was shown a 500 and got the 100.


You're kidding right??? The HR24-500 and HR24-100 are identical!



jaxtoo said:


> RunnerFL, what about MY time and money? Oh, I see, that doesn't count. Only the installers time and money counts.


Just what money did you spend while on the phone complaining??



jaxtoo said:


> And I am tired of your inference of temper tantrums.


What's the old saying about a shoe and if it fits...



jaxtoo said:


> Business in general is rife with customer service issues, a DTV installer is not the only person who might have an occasional inconvenience with a customer.


No, but turning them away costs them money. (Is there an echo in here?)



jaxtoo said:


> I have been in customer service fields in the past too, its just part of the job that sometimes someone will cancel or need something replaced or whatever.


Sure, cancellations are part of the job. That is cancellations because something comes up and you can't make an appointment, there is a family emergency, etc. Not cancellations because the customer wants to act like a 2 year old.



jaxtoo said:


> It sounds to me like its the installers who are having temper tantrums because they might be occasionally inconvenienced. Instead they should be grateful that they still have a job.


wow, now that's about the most self centered thing I've read on here... Seriously??? Losing money thru no fault of your own is NOT an inconvenience. "Should be grateful that they still have a job"??? That's low...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

billsharpe said:


> Functionally identical?
> 
> You're kidding. I happen to like the fact that my HR20 has built-in OTA and the other units do not. That's a functional difference, IMO.


Did you not catch the part where I said "the only differences are hard drive space, HR20's have build in OTA and in some cases speed"? I think that pretty much covers the difference with the HR20's having OTA and the others not having it, don't you?



billsharpe said:


> I don't see any evidence in this thread of the OP throwing a temper tantrum.


And no one here has said the OP threw a tantrum. The OP, BattleZone, is a DirecTV employee who was posting DirecTV's procedure on DVR supply.



billsharpe said:


> Incidentally, I was told by a Verizon CSR to turn away the installation of FiOS TV last year, an order that I had not placed with Verizon. She apparently could not cancel the service call even though I contacted Verizon three times well before the scheduled installation date. This seemed to be a fairly common happening as the tech was not at all upset when I turned him away.


Apples to Oranges...


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> You're kidding right??? The HR24-500 and HR24-100 are identical!


Actually the -500 has RGB colorspace output on the HDMI port, while I believe the -100 has YPrPb colorspace. That does make a slight difference on a VERY FEW monitors.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Actually the -500 has RGB colorspace output on the HDMI port, while I believe the -100 has YPrPb colorspace. That does make a slight difference on a VERY FEW monitors.


And .0001% of DirecTV customers would care...


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## jaxtoo (May 6, 2011)

Well excuse me for not reading it correctly, I thought you were saying the difference between the drive space. And being as you already said that the size of the drive doesn't matter, you can see why I assumed that.

And YES, in this ecomony anyone who has a job should be grateful.

I have nothing else to say... YOU are the one acting like a 2 year old and throwing a tantrum.

Done now. For real this time.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jaxtoo said:


> Well excuse me for not reading it correctly, I thought you were saying the difference between the drive space. And being as you already said that the size of the drive doesn't matter, you can see why I assumed that.
> 
> And YES, in this ecomony anyone who has a job should be grateful.
> 
> ...


!rolling


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## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

If I replace my R22 100 with my Hughes SD-DVR40 will they add another two years to my contract?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

gomezma1 said:


> If I replace my R22 100 with my Hughes SD-DVR40 will they add another two years to my contract?


Please explain.

You have an R22 and you also have a DVR40.

You want to swap one for the other?

No, your contract won't be extended.


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## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

If you get an HD DVR, will you still have the DVR surcharge plus the HD?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> Functionally identical?
> 
> You're kidding. I happen to like the fact that my HR20 has built-in OTA and the other units do not. That's a functional difference, IMO.
> 
> I'll grant that the difference between the 320 gb and 500 gb HD is a feature difference rather than a functional difference but it does almost double the recording capacity of the DVR when you take out the 100 gb that DirecTV reserves.


Bill, that "All HRs are functionally identical" argument has been annoying me for years. "Function" isn't even defined on my online dictionary in any way that fits the quote.

Let's say that "one HR is identical in the way it works to every other HR". That's not a true statement. The 20-700s are faster than any of the HRs except the 24s. If speed isn't a function, what is it?

Some of the HRs have bigger HDDs and can record more content than others. That's a true statement. Some have OTA built in. Another true statement.

The 20-700s are the most reliable HRs. Another true statement, in my experience. My 24-500s cannot handle my obscenely large Playlist as well as my 20-700s do.

The whole 21 line, including the 22s and the 23 are markedly slower than the 20-700s or the 24s. Another true statement.

How could they all be "functionally equal"?



> I don't see any evidence in this thread of the OP throwing a temper tantrum.


I don't either, I think he's handled himself quite well. I understand his frustration, which is caused by things that we've become inured to.

I do think he should be more acceptable of opinions voiced by those of us that have gone thru the same things that are frustrating him many times.

I don't call D* for help, I come to the forum to get that help. I don't trust the promises that CSRs make because I've been disappointed many times.

He could be a bit more flexible in his opinions, knowing that those opinions aren't gonna change the way D* does business.

Rich


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Carl Spock said:


> Great post, BattleZone, but I doubt it will work.
> 
> You could have made your post:
> *
> ...


My only counter to this suggestion is "cannot" is not the right word.

They CHOOSE NOT TO.

It's how they have chosen to set up their business and how they have chosen to run the equipment model.

But it is their _choice_, not a _"cannot"_


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tkrandall said:


> My only counter to this suggestion is "cannot" is not the right word.
> 
> They CHOOSE NOT TO.
> 
> ...


They CAN and they DO if the situation calls for it.

Rich


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> You're kidding right??? The HR24-500 and HR24-100 are identical!


That's not true. We know that one of them works well with the AM21. The other one...not so much.

Next you'll be telling me a Volkswagen Beetle and a Ferrari are functionally equivalent, as they both have four wheels and an engine.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> That's not true. We know that one of them works well with the AM21. The other one...not so much.
> 
> Next you'll be telling me a Volkswagen Beetle and a Ferrari are functionally equivalent, as they both have four wheels and an engine.


That's not really a fair analogy. The two HR24's have much more in common than those two cars. They're like two different universes...I'm just sayin' :grin:

RunnerFL does have a point. They're pretty much functionally identical. If there weren't an AM21 connected, and without looking at the Info/Test menu, would you be able to tell which is the -100 and which it the -500?

Mike


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

jaxtoo said:


> Yes, I would complain if I was shown a 500 and got the 100.
> 
> Gosh, what is wrong with complaining if you don't get the service you expect. Maybe if more people would do that, they would be better about seeing that people had the setup they want.
> 
> ...


Don't target the installers. They're more screwed on a daily basis than you'll ever be as a customer.
Don't pick on the guy drilling holes in your house


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

jaxtoo said:


> I don't think it has anything to do with comprehension problems or failure to read. I totally understand everything everyone has said here.
> 
> *But it does not mean that I have to agree with it, or think that it is right.*
> 
> *And I do not think its unrealistic to expect to get what you pay for.*


Are you serious? You can choose a different service, this isn't a public service issue we're talking about. You don't get a vote. 

Getting what you pay for is predicated on the idea that you and another entity came to an agreement on what "you'd be getting" for a given price. Nowhere did D* EVER say that you'd get a particular IRD model, just type. "Type" is their definition, not yours.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Don't target the installers. They're more screwed on a daily basis than you'll ever be as a customer.
> Don't pick on the guy drilling holes in your house


Agreed!


----------



## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

rich584 said:


> They CAN and they DO if the situation calls for it.
> 
> Rich





tkrandall said:


> My only counter to this suggestion is "cannot" is not the right word.
> 
> They CHOOSE NOT TO.
> 
> ...


They can make a note on the workorder. But that has nothing to do with the supply chain, or individual warehouses. Are you even aware that there are things called HSP's? That they have their OWN inventory systems that are outside of Directv's control or visibility? There are even times when there are no Hx24 irds in the warehouse. For that matter, there are times when there isn't any HD equipment at all!

And as far as the workorder notes go, 60% of the time we don't actually have that information.

:new_cussi:flaiming:icon_dumm:bang


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Mike Bertelson said:


> That's not really a fair analogy. The two HR24's have much more in common than those two cars. They're like two different universes...I'm just sayin' :grin:
> 
> RunnerFL does have a point. They're pretty much functionally identical. If there weren't an AM21 connected, and without looking at the Info/Test menu, would you be able to tell which is the -100 and which it the -500?
> 
> Mike


But if you DID have an AM21, you'd know which one you had.

That's the problem with the "functionally equivalent" statement. It is always preceded with "if you ignore this, that, and the other." For some people the things others are trying to ignore matter a great deal to them.

For example, either model car I mentioned would get me from home to work and back. To me they are functionally equivalent, as I do not need my car to do anything else. But I'm obviously ignoring many differences which I don't care about. Most people would NOT ignore those differences, hence the huge price difference between the cars.


----------



## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Are you serious? You can choose a different service, this isn't a public service issue we're talking about. You don't get a vote.
> 
> Getting what you pay for is predicated on the idea that you and another entity came to an agreement on what "you'd be getting" for a given price. Nowhere did D* EVER say that you'd get a particular IRD model, just type. "Type" is their definition, not yours.


If the customer doesn't like the DVR the installer provides, he gets hit with a $480 ETF. Choosing to switch to a different service at that point is more difficult than you think. Unless you don't think $480 is a large amount of money, in which case I'll PM you my name so you can write me a $480 check. 

In the very next post, you claim that we shouldn't screw the installers. So we're not supposed to complain before he leaves, and it costs a lot of money to complain after he leaves.

Finally, some D* CSRs will promise you a specific model or allude to a specific model (i.e. 500 GB hard drive). That's legally binding. If the installer shows up with a different DVR, that's a problem between him, D*, and whomever else is involved. But not you. It's well within your rights to refuse service at that point. Yo're not screwing the installer -- D* did. You're just delivering the bad news.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

bobcamp1 said:


> For example, either model car I mentioned would get me from home to work and back. To me they are functionally equivalent, as I do not need my car to do anything else. But I'm obviously ignoring many differences which I don't care about. Most people would NOT ignore those differences, hence the huge price difference between the cars.


There're tons of differences between a VW and a Ferrari besides price.

Simply, your analogy is off. I see your point, though.


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

bobcamp1 said:


> If the customer doesn't like the DVR the installer provides, he gets hit with a $480 ETF. Choosing to switch to a different service at that point is more difficult than you think. Unless you don't think $480 is a large amount of money, in which case I'll PM you my name so you can write me a $480 check.
> 
> In the very next post, you claim that we shouldn't screw the installers. So we're not supposed to complain before he leaves, and it costs a lot of money to complain after he leaves.
> 
> Finally, some D* CSRs will promise you a specific model or allude to a specific model (i.e. 500 GB hard drive). That's legally binding. If the installer shows up with a different DVR, that's a problem between him, D*, and whomever else is involved. But not you. It's well within your rights to refuse service at that point. Yo're not screwing the installer -- D* did. You're just delivering the bad news.


Turning down an installation when the tech arrives is the customer's choice. That's fine. BUT do it when he gets there. NOT after the installation is done and the IRD's come off the truck. That's f****** the installer. And there's no excuse for that, from D* or the (supposedly educated) customer.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> Finally, some D* CSRs will promise you a specific model or allude to a specific model (i.e. 500 GB hard drive). That's legally binding.


!rolling

No it's not... Find any real lawyer, not an ambulance chaser, and ask him or her and they'll laugh at you.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> !rolling
> 
> No it's not... Find any real lawyer, not an ambulance chaser, and ask him or her and they'll laugh at you.


He can save a call and just read the customer agreement:



> (d) Other. This Agreement and any lease, activation, programming, or other service commitment agreement that you entered into in connection with obtaining Receiving Equipment constitute our entire agreement. *No salesperson or other representative is authorized to change it.* If any provision is declared by a competent authority to be invalid that provision will be deleted or modified to the extent necessary, and the rest of the Agreement will remain enforceable. The terms of this Agreement that expressly or by their nature survive termination shall continue thereafter until fully performed.


The bolded part is legalise for "Just because an employee told you something it doesn't mean it's true or we have to do it."


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ndole_mbnd said:


> They can make a note on the workorder. But that has nothing to do with the supply chain, or individual warehouses. Are you even aware that there are things called HSP's? That they have their OWN inventory systems that are outside of Directv's control or visibility? There are even times when there are no Hx24 irds in the warehouse. For that matter, there are times when there isn't any HD equipment at all!
> 
> And as far as the workorder notes go, 60% of the time we don't actually have that information.
> 
> :new_cussi:flaiming:icon_dumm:bang


I'll stand by my statement. I have no problem getting what I want. The how and why, I don't want to share on the open forum.

Rich


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Don't target the installers. They're more screwed on a daily basis than you'll ever be as a customer.
> Don't pick on the guy drilling holes in your house


and in the majority of the cases it is by the customer who turns them away becasue they don't ave the equipment on the truck that they think they have a god given right to get.:nono::nono2:


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

rich584 said:


> I'll stand by my statement. I have no problem getting what I want. *The how and why, I don't want to share on the open forum. *
> 
> Rich


Whatever. Tough guy 

Crying like a little girl to get what you want is pretty petulant.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ndole_mbnd said:


> Whatever. Tough guy
> 
> Crying like a little girl to get what you want is pretty petulant.


You could have just PM'd me and I'd have explained. No reason to get nasty.


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## dirtyblueshirt (Dec 7, 2008)

rich584 said:


> You could have just PM'd me and I'd have explained. No reason to get nasty.


<falsetto>Draaaaa-maaaaa!</falsetto> :grin:


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

rich584 said:


> You could have just PM'd me and I'd have explained. No reason to get nasty.


Not nasty. I just don't think "How to throw a tantrum to Case Mgt 101" is PM worthy. Or any sort of _huge secret_


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

That's enough bickering. Take it to PM or let it go.

:backtotop

Mike


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> !rolling
> 
> No it's not... Find any real lawyer, not an ambulance chaser, and ask him or her and they'll laugh at you.


I have ... and he said the customer service agreement is wrong, and that verbal agreements with a CSR are legally binding. (trust me on this). However, getting them enforced in court is extremely difficult unless someone is recording the conversation or unless it is followed up with a written agreement. We know D* records it (subpoena them to get a copy), and I record it as well as I live in a one-party state. Of course DirecTV put that "CSRs can't promise you anything" clause in there, but if they replaced it with "early termination results in you giving up your first-born to DirecTV", and you signed it, that part of the agreement is not legally binding either because it violates state law. (Actually, new customers don't sign anything until after the installation, so the clause in the written agreement isn't binding until then.)

For those D* fanboys out there, I can switch the scenario. When I recently called to order a DVR, the CSR reviewed the order and told me to state very clearly, yes or no, if I agreed. Obviously D* was treating that as a binding verbal agreement. Then it went to a third-party company, who did the exact same thing. D* can't have it both ways. If I change my mind after I hang up but before the installer leaves, D* can still charge me any non-refundable fees.

I agree that you should definitely confirm with the installer before he shows up, or when he first shows up, to confirm what the CSR said. We know that a regular CSR can't order specific equipment despite what they agree to, but the installers are generally nice and will try to give you what you want anyway.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

bobcamp1 said:


> I have ... and he said the customer service agreement is wrong, and that verbal agreements with a CSR are legally binding. (trust me on this). However, getting them enforced in court is extremely difficult unless someone is recording the conversation or unless it is followed up with a written agreement. We know D* records it (subpoena them to get a copy), and I record it as well as I live in a one-party state. Of course DirecTV put that "CSRs can't promise you anything" clause in there, but if they replaced it with "early termination results in you giving up your first-born to DirecTV", and you signed it, that part of the agreement is not legally binding either because it violates state law. (Actually, new customers don't sign anything until after the installation, so the clause in the written agreement isn't binding until then.)
> 
> For those D* fanboys out there, I can switch the scenario. When I recently called to order a DVR, the CSR reviewed the order and told me to state very clearly, yes or no, if I agreed. Obviously D* was treating that as a binding verbal agreement. Then it went to a third-party company, who did the exact same thing. D* can't have it both ways. If I change my mind after I hang up but before the installer leaves, D* can still charge me any non-refundable fees.
> 
> I agree that you should definitely confirm with the installer before he shows up, or when he first shows up, to confirm what the CSR said. We know that a regular CSR can't order specific equipment despite what they agree to, but the installers are generally nice and will try to give you what you want anyway.


Sorry no a CSR comment is NOT legally binding, no CSR has the authority to override a corporate policy without written authorization. I have run a couple of the larger support centers for companies and this is standard policy


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

wingrider01 said:


> Sorry no a CSR comment is NOT legally binding, no CSR has the authority to override a corporate policy without written authorization. I have run a couple of the larger support centers for companies and this is standard policy


Sorry: Facts and real life experience have no place in this thread!!! Please mind your manners!*
.
.
.

.
.
..
* Just in case there's any possibility of misunderstanding, I do thank you for your post, and my comment is meant to evoke at least a wan smile....:sure:


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## egakagoc2xi (Jul 1, 2010)

I agree is stupid, the user should be able to decide what reciever he wants. He's paying for it.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

egakagoc2xi said:


> I agree is stupid, the user should be able to decide what reciever he wants. He's paying for it.


You can just don't order it from DIRECTV order it from an online retailer.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> Sorry no a CSR comment is NOT legally binding, no CSR has the authority to override a corporate policy without written authorization. I have run a couple of the larger support centers for companies and this is standard policy


I'm not talking about standard corporate policy, I'm talking about the law and the court system.

If a CSR, where the "R" stand for "representative" FYI, promises you something reasonable and within the realm of the company, AND YOU HAVE IT RECORDED, and there is no written agreement, it's generally binding. I have been through this with my TWC lawsuit (very long story). It does not apply to 99.99% of the phone calls, as they are not recorded and D* has the customer later sign a written agreement.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

bobcamp1 said:


> I'm not talking about standard corporate policy, I'm talking about the law and the court system.
> 
> If a CSR, where the "R" stand for "representative" FYI, promises you something reasonable and within the realm of the company, AND YOU HAVE IT RECORDED, and there is no written agreement, it's generally binding. I have been through this with my TWC lawsuit (very long story). It does not apply to 99.99% of the phone calls, as they are not recorded and D* has the customer later sign a written agreement.


You are incorrect..companies document who can make binding promises and who cannot, does not matter what you think - policy at the support centers I ran was telephone reps have no authority to alter documented proceedures and policies - if they did they where no longer employeed after the 1st warning.

Contrary to what you believe there IS a written agreement, you can request a copy or look it up on the website.

You have no idea how many calls are records, I can definately state that at the companies where we ran the call center ALL the calls and live chat sessions where recorded, if a complaint came in on a call or a "rep promise" was claimed, their quad supervisor pulled the call / chat records and forwarded it to investigation, if it was found that the rep overstepped their bounds or where rude to the the caller they where given a written warning - 1 only, second one they where terminated, corporate policy for dealing withthe customer was posted in each cube, it was required reading - violation of the policy gets 1 warning, second is termination.

It is well documented in corporate policies who can alter them or make promises that are contrary to what the policy states - dn;t think even a ambulance chaser would take on that case with out a hefty non-refundable deposit from the complaining party, not sure crass action suit sharks would look at those either - although the dollar amount that sharks will make in the end might just entice them


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> I'm not talking about standard corporate policy, I'm talking about the law and the court system.
> 
> If a CSR, where the "R" stand for "representative" FYI, promises you something reasonable and within the realm of the company, AND YOU HAVE IT RECORDED, and there is no written agreement, it's generally binding. * I have been through this with my TWC lawsuit (very long story).* It does not apply to 99.99% of the phone calls, as they are not recorded and D* has the customer later sign a written agreement.


I'd love to hear that story, either by PM or on the open forum. The last time I talked to my lawyer about D* and their practices (back in the bad times in late '06) he told me that I'd be "tilting at windmills" again and wasting his time and my money. I did see a couple other lawyers at that time and they were willing to go to court about the issues I presented on a contingency basis, but I never followed thru and got all the issues resolved a year or so later. But I'd really like to hear your story. Seriously.

Rich


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

>>> DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver! <<<

This is simply not true. DirecTV, via their improperly trained CSR's, absolutely DOES promise specific models of DVR's. Perhaps they should not but that is something DirecTV needs to fix on their end.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

At the begining of this month I called to get another HD DVR. I was told by the CSR that because I had 2 existing HR24's and MRV I would most likely get another 24. Instead I got a HR21 and b band converters. It went back the next day and they gave me a credit towards a HR24.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

pfp said:


> >>> DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver! <<<
> 
> This is simply not true. DirecTV, via their improperly trained CSR's, absolutely DOES promise specific models of DVR's. Perhaps they should not but that is something DirecTV needs to fix on their end.


One could argue that CSRs are appointed representatives of DirecTV but that's not at all true. They do not act in any legal capacity. But let's ignore all that for a moment. Is this pervasive among CSRs? Do the majority of them promise what they can't deliver? That seems to be your implication.

I can only relate my experiences with them. The CSR has always given me a laundry list of disclaimers. This is a lease...you'll be charged this per month...you have to return it when you're done...your rights and responsibilities are explained in the Customer agreement and Lease Addendum which are available on directv dot com...etc, etc. In the past five years I've only talked to a CSR four-ish times and this is the way it's gone each time. Maybe my experiences have been unique, but I doubt it.

DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver regardless of what an improperly trained CSR may or may not tell you. Just because someone on the phone says something doesn't make it true nor is it binding. And that is a stone cold fact.

However, in the end that's kinda the purpose of this thread. It educates our members in the reality of the situation so when we're faced with the occasional improperly trained CSR we'll know what the simple truth is.

My 2¢ FWIW. 

Mike


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

When a customer interacts with an employee of a company, any company, that employee IS the company to that customer.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> You are incorrect..companies document who can make binding promises and who cannot, does not matter what you think - policy at the support centers I ran was telephone reps have no authority to alter documented proceedures and policies - if they did they where no longer employeed after the 1st warning.
> 
> Contrary to what you believe there IS a written agreement, you can request a copy or look it up on the website.
> 
> ...


1. If the CSR can't ever make a binding promise, why am I giving a complete stranger my CC information? Why does a third party review the order and have me do things that clearly indicate a verbal agreement has been reached? I assume a D* CSR has the authority to set up an installation. I assume that billing has the authority to help resolve billing disputes.

I assume that retention has the authority to cancel my service (part of my TWC lawsuit). Retention also seems to offer deals "above and beyond" the average deals. But if they promise me a year's worth of free Showtime to stay as long as I sign a one-year agreement, and I never get free Showtime, should I be charged an ETF for leaving?

2. There is usually no written agreement between the time you first contact a CSR and the the time the installer leaves. If they buy it at Best Buy, there is a written agreement. But without a signature, there is only a verbal agreement. Unless you mean we're verbally agreeing to the written agreement. Isn't that circular logic?

3. Most calls are recorded NOW. Did you ever wonder WHY? I do assume the CSR who promised something they should not have gets fired. But where does that leave my agreement with D*? Should I get charged any fees for changing my mind once the error has been discovered? And it isn't like the D* CSR is promising me free D* stock with a DVR purchase. Common sense says they can't do that. But D* CSRs are promising that a certain model of DVR will be installed. Common sense says that's within their authority even though it is technically not. And that's where the problem lies.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

pfp said:


> When a customer interacts with an employee of a company, any company, that employee IS the company to that customer.


Quite true, and it's important. However, it doesn't mean that employee can bind the company.

Extreme example: Employee of ABCD luxury cars agrees to swap a new car when the brakelight goes out. Or two for one, or free etc. etc.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

bobcamp1 said:


> But D* CSRs are promising that a certain model of DVR will be installed. Common sense says that's within their authority even though it is technically not. And that's where the problem lies.


Well, yes, but first it's a small number of CSRs. And a small number of customers who really insist on an HR24. So it's a problem that's manageable, and wouldn't exist if customers informed themselves fully [as well as CSRs undergoing additional training.]


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

pfp said:


> When a customer interacts with an employee of a company, any company, that employee IS the company to that customer.


It may be the perception but is not the legal reality.

Mike


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

bobcamp1 said:


> 1. If the CSR can't ever make a binding promise, why am I giving a complete stranger my CC information? Why does a third party review the order and have me do things that clearly indicate a verbal agreement has been reached? I assume a D* CSR has the authority to set up an installation. I assume that billing has the authority to help resolve billing disputes.


Because you choose to give them your CC. You don't have to you can pay online. The website doesn't make a binding promise to you does it? A third party verifies the order so that they can say they added another place where your agreement is covered.



> I assume that retention has the authority to cancel my service (part of my TWC lawsuit). Retention also seems to offer deals "above and beyond" the average deals. But if they promise me a year's worth of free Showtime to stay as long as I sign a one-year agreement, and I never get free Showtime, should I be charged an ETF for leaving?


Yes if they offered to fix the issue and give you what you agreed to.



> 2. There is usually no written agreement between the time you first contact a CSR and the the time the installer leaves. If they buy it at Best Buy, there is a written agreement. But without a signature, there is only a verbal agreement. Unless you mean we're verbally agreeing to the written agreement. Isn't that circular logic?


Installers provide, or are required, the paperwork and have you sign it when appropriate.



> 3. Most calls are recorded NOW. Did you ever wonder WHY? I do assume the CSR who promised something they should not have gets fired. But where does that leave my agreement with D*? Should I get charged any fees for changing my mind once the error has been discovered? And it isn't like the D* CSR is promising me free D* stock with a DVR purchase. Common sense says they can't do that. But D* CSRs are promising that a certain model of DVR will be installed. Common sense says that's within their authority even though it is technically not. And that's where the problem lies.


They tell you why calls are recorded. They are done so for quality purposes just like any company. You assume a lot in your post. The problem doesn't exist in your assumption of common sense it stems from someone doing something they shouldn't for whatever reason they did.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

I don't think most calls are recorded. I live in Florida where it's absolutely illegal to record audio without all parties consent. When I call in, I am not informed of any recordings and given any option to call a non recorded line. 

That aside for a moment, even when something is recorded, storing, cataloging them and retrieving them is no small task.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

NR4P said:


> I don't think most calls are recorded. I live in Florida where it's absolutely illegal to record audio without all parties consent. When I call in, I am not informed of any recordings and given any option to call a non recorded line.
> 
> That aside for a moment, even when something is recorded, storing, cataloging them and retrieving them is no small task.


You're told at the beginning of the call when it's transfering you to a department. You aren't given the option to call a non recording number you just hang up if you don't agree.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Shades228 said:


> You're told at the beginning of the call when it's transfering you to a department. You aren't given the option to call a non recording number you just hang up if you don't agree.


Do some folks actually have a problem with a business transaction being recorded? (When they've been informed that is.)


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

pfp said:


> When a customer interacts with an employee of a company, any company, that employee IS the company to that customer.


a representative of the company with no powers outside of what is mandated and stated by the company - unless their job description gives them enough authority to modify or ignore company mandates then they are not able to make ANY promises that are legally binding to the company.


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## SWORDFISH (Apr 16, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Well, yes, but first it's a small number of CSRs. And a small number of customers who really insist on an HR24. *So it's a problem that's manageable, and wouldn't exist if customers informed themselves fully *[as well as CSRs undergoing additional training.]


Excluding the majority of posters here, how do most people inform themselves ? 
.............call customer service.

SF


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> Because you choose to give them your CC. You don't have to you can pay online. The website doesn't make a binding promise to you does it? A third party verifies the order so that they can say they added another place where your agreement is covered.
> 
> Yes if they offered to fix the issue and give you what you agreed to.
> 
> ...


You dodged all my questions. None of your answers address what happens when a CSR or someone at D* with authority does something they shouldn't do, and later D* refuses to honor it.

I think all that should happen is that any agreements should be dissolved, don't charge the customer any fee or penalty to cancel, and both parties go on their merry way.

FYI, the website DOES constitute a written agreement as you have to click a confirmation button, but if you call there is no written agreement until the installer shows up.

Finally, the problem with common sense is that violating it gets you into a lot of trouble at a jury trial.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

wingrider01 said:


> a representative of the company with no powers outside of what is mandated and stated by the company - unless their job description gives them enough authority to modify or ignore company mandates then they are not able to make ANY promises that are legally binding to the company.


My only addition to that is if something is reasonably within the representative's realm of authority, then that promise could be legally binding regardless of company mandates. Another way to look at it is how a jury would rule if the case ever went to trial.

It is odd that a CSR who has the authority to order equipment, even different types of equipment, does not have the authority to order a specific model. If they do not have the authority, they need to immediately state that whenever such an attempt is made by the customer. D* just needs to add it to their script and/or need to emphasize it more in their training.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> It is odd that a CSR who has the authority to order equipment, even different types of equipment, does not have the *ability* to order a specific model.


Fixed that for you...


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

I think it would be cheaper for Directv to just give the customer the DVR they request the first time around. Just recently I added a HDDVR to my account. I called Directv and asked for one. I asked about the HR24. The CSR told me I would most likely get one as I had 2 other HR24s and MRV. Yes, I know the policy but I figured I'll play the game and see what shows up on the doorstep. I said great, I'll take it and paid $125($99 for the DVR + tax and shipping). The next day I get a HR21 with b band converters instead of a Deca module. I imediately call to complain. They agree to refund the entire $125 to my credit card upon return of the HR21. I also get a $100 credit towards the HR24 that I want. I have called a total of 5 times to different departments to get credits authorized and to make sure that they actually get posted to my account. I really think it would have been cheaper for Directv if the man/woman in the warehouse just went to the pallet with the HR24s a pulled one for me. After all someone is handling the equipment and repackaging things as the HR21 came to me with a sealed bag of accessories such as b band converters.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

bobcamp1 said:


> You dodged all my questions. None of your answers address what happens when a CSR or someone at D* with authority does something they shouldn't do, and later D* refuses to honor it.
> 
> I think all that should happen is that any agreements should be dissolved, don't charge the customer any fee or penalty to cancel, and both parties go on their merry way.
> 
> ...


You answered your own question of what happens if DIRECTV refuses to honor what that person said. The answer is nothing unless you choose to do something else.

You say words like think and assume and you somehow believe that it would translate to something with in a law.

The confirmation button is there to ensure that you double check what you entered because it's going to happen. Imagine if you just entered the amount and then it processed it the instance you clicked out of that field.

If you think our legal system is common sense then perhaps you should read some legal cases or become a lawyer. What you're really doing is arguing because it's how you want it to be. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it's going to be that nor does it mean that it's going to be that way.

Companies would never absolve an agreement because of misinformation, because then people would just make stuff up to try and get out of it. People also like to hear what they want to hear rather than what is being said.

For instance someone saying "You'll get an advanced HD DVR" most of the time equates to you'll get a NIB HR 24.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> You answered your own question of what happens if DIRECTV refuses to honor what that person said. The answer is nothing unless you choose to do something else.
> 
> You say words like think and assume and you somehow believe that it would translate to something with in a law.
> 
> ...


I've already done something very similar to this in court and won. The legal system itself isn't common sense at all, but common sense is often used during jury trials and civil trials in general. Juries don't understand the law, but they understand common sense. Well, most of them do anyway. That's why companies now put arbitration clauses in their contracts. An arbitrator is much more likely to follow the law than common sense.

Stores often honor agreements that do not favor them if there has been evidence of a misunderstanding. If the stock boy, who has no authority to set prices, accidentally puts something on sale, a manager (who does have authority) will allow the discounted price to keep you as a customer. However, the manager is also responsible for the stock boy performing his job properly. If there is a trend of the store marking things on sale when they are not and the manager does NOT honor those prices, that's false advertising and against the law. So the manager is also honoring the discounted price to cover his you-know-what.

Some people were promised a DVR with a 500 GB hard drive. Some were promised an HR-24. This thread says that the CSR cannot do that. If you want avoid all kinds of headaches, be aware of it.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> It is odd that a CSR who has the authority to order equipment, even different types of equipment, does not have the authority to order a specific model.





RunnerFL said:


> Fixed that for you...


I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it. You can't defend yourself with a flawed computer system. ("I'm sorry your honor, but our system does not allow us to issue checks for billing errors. We'll be happy to give him the $10,000 in credit due to our billing error....")

Plus, some CSRs (in retention) apparently *DO* have this ability, perhaps because they also have the authority. Or do they not have the authority but are allowed to do it anyway?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it.


It's not broken. It's specifically designed the way DirecTV wants it, there's nothing to fix.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

bobcamp1 said:


> I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it. You can't defend yourself with a flawed computer system. ("I'm sorry your honor, but our system does not allow us to issue checks for billing errors. We'll be happy to give him the $10,000 in credit due to our billing error....")
> 
> Plus, some CSRs (in retention) apparently *DO* have this ability, perhaps because they also have the authority. Or do they not have the authority but are allowed to do it anyway?


retention is not a tier 1 csr, so it is logical that they have additional abilities then front line tier 1 csr's.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

bobcamp1 said:


> I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it. You can't defend yourself with a flawed computer system. ("I'm sorry your honor, but our system does not allow us to issue checks for billing errors. We'll be happy to give him the $10,000 in credit due to our billing error....")
> 
> Plus, some CSRs (in retention) apparently *DO* have this ability, perhaps because they also have the authority. Or do they not have the authority but are allowed to do it anyway?


See RunnerFL's response to "fixing" the sytem. Retention reps cannot order a specific receiver. That's the whole point of this thread.



RunnerFL said:


> It's not broken. It's specifically designed the way DirecTV wants it, there's nothing to fix.


+1



wingrider01 said:


> retention is not a tier 1 csr, so it is logical that they have additional abilities then front line tier 1 csr's.


Again they cannot do so so just because they're answering disconnect requests doesn't mean anything when it comes down to how DIRECTV intentionally has setup their order and inventory management.

The bottom line is any agent that you speak with when you call in to customer care cannot guarantee a model number, with exceptions of replacement receiver rules built into the system, and if someone did get a model number they were "promised" it was a 20% chance they got lucky on.

I'm not sure why it's a difficult concept. If you want a specific model don't call DIRECTV go through an online dealer. Fighting the system will get you nothing but frustration. If you want to change DIRECTV's policies then become the next CEO.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> Again they cannot do so so just because they're answering disconnect requests doesn't mean anything when it comes down to how DIRECTV intentionally has setup their order and inventory management.
> 
> The bottom line is any agent that you speak with when you call in to customer care cannot guarantee a model number, with exceptions of replacement receiver rules built into the system, and if someone did get a model number they were "promised" it was a 20% chance they got lucky on.
> 
> I'm not sure why it's a difficult concept. If you want a specific model don't call DIRECTV go through an online dealer. Fighting the system will get you nothing but frustration. If you want to change DIRECTV's policies then become the next CEO.


Have never gone through Directv to get the recievers, not worth my time to play csr roulete to get a discount on the cost of the device, bought all my devices when I installed back years ago before they went to the lease model, have the PP so they get replaced with units that are flagged owned

retention is not a tier 1 custoemr service level, they have a lot more abilities and less restrictions then the front line service personnel, just like the access card people do, now those iI have dealt with a lot because the majority of my units are owned and not lease.

Bottom line - want a specific reciever, tighten the belt and go to a outside source and play the full price for the lease, want a discounted price, call direct tv and negotiate with them, but take what they give you. Also - if you screw the installers by ordering, having them come out and refuse the service call becasue they don't have the reciever you want on their truck then those people sould pay for the service call if they turn them away.

This is not Burger King you don;t get it the way you want it


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## subeluvr (Jan 14, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> Fighting the system will get you nothing but frustration. If you want to change DIRECTV's policies then become the next CEO.


Just having run the obstacle course at DTV regarding a specific receiver model that I was promised numerous times by different DTV agents at different levels here are the facts...

No 1st tier CSR or TSA or supervisor or retention agent or case manager has the ability to place an order for a specific version of any DTV receiver. Regardless of what they tell you or promise you that option does not exist on their computer screen. It is that simple.

A note requesting a specific model can be made on the order and smart installers who like being tipped are smart to call the customer when they are at the warehouse and give the customer a choice of what is available. When you get treated right by an installer treat them right... it really is a good investment

An order for a specific model of a DTV receiver can be placed but only at the highest level and only on rare occasion and it is quite involved so it is rarely done. It is so rarely done that few people know that it can be done.

The thing is that DTV agents at every level seem to indicate that it can and will be done but make no notes in the customer's account so they can not be held accountable when the customer blows his/her top.

There is only one reality in this discussion that everyone has to get their head around... _DirecTV does not exist for the convenience of the customer... the customer exists for the convenience of DirecTV_

This is today's business model and DirecTV is not the only company using it. If you don't like it, and you shouldn't, then you have to vote with your wallet because that is the only language corporate America understands... market share and P&L, and corporate America will listen... sooner or later 

*UPDATE:* As it turns out, even an assurance from the highest executive level (that customers can get to) that a specific model of a receiver will be shipped doesn't make it happen. The wrong model arrived today.


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## tCdragon (Jun 22, 2011)

*I have worked both in the call center and now in the field, there is no way to guarantee what model you will get or if it will be new or a refurbished. When i get the equipment for the day we get what they give us. Sometimes we will have hr24s and others hr21s. So if a csr says the can guarantee you a specific model don't believe it. Your going to get what you get or you can reschedule your install or upgrade and hope that we have what you want next time. *


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## TheJ3RK (Dec 14, 2009)

Wow. 10 pages.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheJ3RK said:


> Wow. 10 pages.


Of redundancy...:lol:

Rich


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## hombresoto (Sep 10, 2006)

I 'guarantee' that my customers get HR24s by refusing to accept any less in my bi-weekly trip for inventory. I also am subject to chargebacks so it is in MY best interest to not install a 5 year old DVR. I also do not get a 'pre-bundled' truckload of equipment each week like HSP employees. My principal loads up a couple of times a week and I go to his warehouse and pick the models I want. I ask before I go to load up if 24s are available. If not I have them delivered.
And no, I am not taking any of those H20's or , believe it or not, the D10s that crept their way back into the refurb cycle a couple of years ago. 
It is that simple in my situation... My customers are happy to get good equipment and I am happy to not install equipment that may or may not fail in the first 90 days, or work out of the box for that matter...


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