# Why in 2012 is the guide still broken?



## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

Every night when I flip channels I come across a show on the guide I want to watch but when I click it I don't go to the show. The reason is these shows start just after the top or bottom of the hour therefore the guide gets confused by the one minute gap. So you are technically clicking on a show that is already over. 

End of the world? No. But it's annoying....

Last night fore example had 3 channels in a row on my guide like this... 

C'mon Man....


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm not seeing that issue on my end. Regardless of how much time is left in a show my units change the channel when I select something from the guide.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not seeing that issue on my end. Regardless of how much time is left in a show my units change the channel when I select something from the guide.


Just a coincidence on your end though...

To the OP, yes, it can be annoying, but what do you expect them to do about it?!

~Alan


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

Clicking on a program only takes you to that program if the current time indicator on the top of the guide is at or beyond the start of the program. To jump from the guide directly to any channel requires that the cursor be at the far left of the guide or to the left of the guide and on the channel ID.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Just a coincidence on your end though...


How is it a coincidence? It's always worked that way and it's how it should work.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

fleckrj said:


> Clicking on a program only takes you to that program if the current time indicator on the top of the guide is at or beyond the start of the program. To jump from the guide directly to any channel requires that the cursor be at the far left of the guide or to the left of the guide and on the channel ID.


Exactly, that's how it's always been and how it should be. Selecting a show that hasn't started to air yet shouldn't change the channel.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> How is it a coincidence? It's always worked that way and it's how it should work.


It's a coincidence you've never experienced the irritation that can come from that...

As far as how it should work... well, I've been irritated with it from time to time, but I believe there's a logical reason for it, so I'm good with it regardless. 

~Alan


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

As *RunnerFL* has pointed out, the guide isn't broken. It just works that way.

To say the guide is broken is to want an manual transmission for a car that won't allow you to accidentally shift into the wrong gear. I don't know of a manual transmission that will keep you from accidentally shifting into 3rd when you meant to shift into 1st.

Same difference.

The guide doesn't eliminate human error. I suppose this could be designed out, just like a microprocessor could be programmed to monitor your car to eliminate a dumb shift, but in both cases, it's probably the best, and certainly the cheapest and easiest solution to let human beings be human beings and make a mistake every now and then.

I mean, there are both a clock and a cursor for the current time on the guide page. If the OP wanted to stop making this mistake, he'd only have to look at those.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> It's a coincidence you've never experienced the irritation that can come from that...
> 
> As far as how it should work... well, I've been irritated with it from time to time, but I believe there's a logical reason for it, so I'm good with it regardless.
> 
> ~Alan


Why would I be irritated by something that worked as it should?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Why would I be irritated by something that worked as it should?


Have you seriously NEVER tuned into something via the Guide that started a minute or two into after the hour or half-hour and simply didn't see that it started a minute or two afterwards due to the tiny sliver of a block from the previous program in the Guide?! 

It's annoying, but short of having DirecTV refresh the GUIDE every minute or every so many seconds, it's going to happen from time to time, and that's fine, but it _can_ be irritating. 

~Alan


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Have you seriously NEVER tuned into something via the Guide that started a minute or two into after the hour or half-hour and simply didn't see that it started a minute or two afterwards due to the tiny sliver of a block from the previous program in the Guide?!


No, I haven't.


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

The :01 start times are the bane of my existence. They have caused so many unnecessary recording conflicts. Beyond that I havent encountered what the OP is mentioning.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> No, I haven't.


Thankfully, most of my viewing is recordings, so I don't run into it too often these days, but you should count yourself lucky nonetheless.

It would be nice if the STB only told you that this showing has finished if you tell it to record, and not when you're simply trying to view the channel... but some people might get confused by that, so I see the point of it both ways.

~Alan


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Thankfully, most of my viewing is recordings, so I don't run into it too often these days, but you should count yourself lucky nonetheless.
> 
> It would be nice if the STB only told you that this showing has finished if you tell it to record, and not when you're simply trying to view the channel... but some people might get confused by that, so I see the point of it both ways.
> 
> ~Alan


Lucky how? I honestly don't see how it's an issue.

What do you expect? To get to watch the whole show if only a sliver is still left in the guide?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Lucky how? I honestly don't see how it's an issue.


In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal... but as stated numerous times, it can be annoying... hence why I stated you were lucky to not have experienced it.



RunnerFL said:


> What do you expect?


Nothing... I simply responded to your post in which you stated that you haven't experienced this. I've ran into it numerous times over the years. It can be annoying, but it's not what I consider a big issue.



RunnerFL said:


> To get to watch the whole show if only a sliver is still left in the guide?


Absolutely not! Imagine this:


You're surfing the guide... you see something on a channel you want to tune to... you THINK that you're tuning into the program that's on, but you accidentally click on an older program that has already gone off and you get the message that this showing has ended, so you exit back out of that menu screen and then click on the program that you intended to view.

It's annoying... not a big deal, but annoying...

Just a statement... not a criticism!  

~Alan


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

I dont get the topic title....how is the guide broken ?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> You're surfing the guide... you see something on a channel you want to tune to... you THINK that you're tuning into the program that's on, but you accidentally click on an older program that has already gone off and you get the message that this showing has ended, so you exit back out of that menu screen and then click on the program that you intended to view.


But if the old show is still in the guide I don't think I'm tuning to something new. It's as simple as looking at the guide before pressing select. If there's still a sliver from the previous show in the guide you're going to get that old show, most likely ended. You shouldn't expect to get a new show if the old show is still showing in the guide, even if it's just a sliver.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> I dont get the topic title....how is the guide broken ?


That's what I'm trying to figure out too... I'm gonna stick with it's not broken because it's working exactly as it should.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

It's not really broke, it's just you have to make sure you have highlighted what you want to actually watch.

In the picture below, I have highlighted a program that you can no longer tune to. You can still get all it's info.

If you change the behavior to "fix" what the op says is a broken guide, then you take away the ability to get info about the show I have highlighted.

I think everything is fine the way it is for this paticular thing. If anything, I'd like to see us able to go back further in time in the guide.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

Really the issue is that the guide isn't intelligent enough to handle it for you. The OP and Alan want the guide to be smart enough to recognize that in Inkahaut's shot Man on the Moon has ended and it should default to Big Stan instead so you can just arrow down to that line and hit select rather than having to hit the right arrow to get to the tv show that is currently playing on that channel.

The guide is smart enough to remember that if you've already gone right to something that started at 5:01 it will select that later show on other channels too but it doesn't get there automatically.

Personally, I've run into this and it has annoyed me but since the majority of my viewing is recordings it really isn't a big annoyance.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"evan_s" said:


> Really the issue is that the guide isn't intelligent enough to handle it for you. The OP and Alan want the guide to be smart enough to recognize that in Inkahaut's shot Man on the Moon has ended and it should default to Big Stan instead so you can just arrow down to that line and hit select rather than having to hit the right arrow to get to the tv show that is currently playing on that channel.
> 
> The guide is smart enough to remember that if you've already gone right to something that started at 5:01 it will select that later show on other channels too but it doesn't get there automatically.
> 
> Personally, I've run into this and it has annoyed me but since the majority of my viewing is recordings it really isn't a big annoyance.


Ah, so only go to that program that is finished by hitting the left arrow? Huh.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

I'm getting exasperated...

First of all... I too do *not* feel that the guide is broken. I'm simply stating that I too find the OP's annoyance to be annoying.



inkahauts said:


> If you change the behavior to "fix" what the op says is a broken guide, then you take away the ability to get info about the show I have highlighted.


Not necessarily... it could still be left in, but have it where pressing that channel in the guide tunes to the channel regardless.

The issue there is that some people might not be smart enough to figure out the program they clicked on isn't on anymore. 



RunnerFL said:


> But if the old show is still in the guide I don't think I'm tuning to something new. It's as simple as looking at the guide before pressing select. If there's still a sliver from the previous show in the guide you're going to get that old show, most likely ended. You shouldn't expect to get a new show if the old show is still showing in the guide, even if it's just a sliver.


Read what I posted above...

Also... this annoyance is more common on smaller TVs, SDTVs, and of course, older, slower DVRs.



evan_s said:


> Really the issue is that the guide isn't intelligent enough to handle it for you. The OP and Alan want the guide to be smart enough to recognize that in Inkahaut's shot Man on the Moon has ended and it should default to Big Stan instead so you can just arrow down to that line and hit select rather than having to hit the right arrow to get to the tv show that is currently playing on that channel.
> 
> The guide is smart enough to remember that if you've already gone right to something that started at 5:01 it will select that later show on other channels too but it doesn't get there automatically.
> 
> Personally, I've run into this and it has annoyed me but since the majority of my viewing is recordings it really isn't a big annoyance.


Actually, in the case of inkahaut's shot, it's extremely obvious that "Man In The Moon" is still listed in the guide and it's extremely obvious, so one can easily move over to "Big Stan." My annoyances are when it's not obvious there's something there.

~Alan


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> Ah, so only go to that program that is finished by hitting the left arrow? Huh.


That would make sense. I'd say the majority of the time someone is going to be more interested in what has already started playing on that channel and the "normal" behavior of switching to that channel when you select a show on the channel than seeing information for a show that has already ended and bringing up the more info for that show to try to find other showings. Sure if you want to manually go left to do that then allow it but default to the show that is currently live on the channel as that is much more relevant.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

Alan Gordon said:


> Actually, in the case of inkahaut's shot, it's extremely obvious that "Man In The Moon" is still listed in the guide and it's extremely obvious, so one can easily move over to "Big Stan." My annoyances are when it's not obvious there's something there.
> 
> ~Alan


I agree that it isn't as annoying when it's 10 or 15 minutes like in Inkahaut's example but the minute or 2 example that is more annoying also doesn't make as good an example for to show what is happening. Ironically, it doesn't make a good example for the exact same reason that it is more annoying. It isn't as obvious that you've got something old selected.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Alan Gordon" said:


> I'm getting exasperated...
> 
> First of all... I too do not feel that the guide is broken. I'm simply stating that I too find the OP's annoyance to be annoying.
> 
> ...


If you automatically tune to a channel if you select a show that's over, then select won't take you to the more info screen of the show... And as you pointed out people may also not realize they are tuning to a different show.

I actually think its best leaving it as is, because that is the only way that allows everything to work in the exact same consistent manner.

Maybe if they would at least have the program name go dim if it's no longer on.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> The issue there is that some people might not be smart enough to figure out the program they clicked on isn't on anymore.


It's not difficult to figure out it's not on anymore. There's a white dot at the top of the guide that shows you where in time you are. There's no reason to completely redesign something because a few people can't grasp it.

Using the pic provided you can see this white dot above and to the right of the HD logo for "Gloria". Anything to the left of that dot is no longer airing and no one should expect to be able to tune to it. Since the guide is setup for only 30 minute "chunks" it's impossible to have "Man on the Moon" go off the guide because it was still airing past 5 and the guide shows from 5 to 6:30.


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## boukengreen (Sep 22, 2009)

RunnerFL said:


> It's not difficult to figure out it's not on anymore. There's a white dot at the top of the guide that shows you where in time you are. There's no reason to completely redesign something because a few people can't grasp it.
> 
> Using the pic provided you can see this white dot above and to the right of the HD logo for "Gloria". Anything to the left of that dot is no longer airing and no one should expect to be able to tune to it. Since the guide is setup for only 30 minute "chunks" it's impossible to have "Man on the Moon" go off the guide because it was still airing past 5 and the guide shows from 5 to 6:30.


i never knew what that dot was for thats nice to know lol


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

From time to time I have wanted the information from a show that is over to find out when the next showing might be. The key is to always be aware of what is highlighted when you hit the select button. Sure, I make mistakes from time to time--and blame myself. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Using the pic provided you can see this white dot above and to the right of the HD logo for "Gloria".


How odd.

I've never even noticed that dot before.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

I never noticed any of this before


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"spartanstew" said:


> How odd.
> 
> I've never even noticed that dot before.


Me neither.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

evan_s said:


> I agree that it isn't as annoying when it's 10 or 15 minutes like in Inkahaut's example but the minute or 2 example that is more annoying also doesn't make as good an example for to show what is happening. Ironically, it doesn't make a good example for the exact same reason that it is more annoying. It isn't as obvious that you've got something old selected.


Very good point!



inkahauts said:


> If you automatically tune to a channel if you select a show that's over, then select won't take you to the more info screen of the show... And as you pointed out people may also not realize they are tuning to a different show.
> 
> I actually think its best leaving it as is, because that is the only way that allows everything to work in the exact same consistent manner.
> 
> Maybe if they would at least have the program name go dim if it's no longer on.


I agree... I NEVER championed the idea of changing it... I simply agreed with the OP that it can be annoying. Nothing more...



RunnerFL said:


> It's not difficult to figure out it's not on anymore. There's a white dot at the top of the guide that shows you where in time you are. There's no reason to completely redesign something because a few people can't grasp it.


Read the above... 



RunnerFL said:


> Using the pic provided you can see this white dot above and to the right of the HD logo for "Gloria". Anything to the left of that dot is no longer airing and no one should expect to be able to tune to it. Since the guide is setup for only 30 minute "chunks" it's impossible to have "Man on the Moon" go off the guide because it was still airing past 5 and the guide shows from 5 to 6:30.


Unlike many here apparently lol, I'm very well aware of the white dash... and in the pic provided, it's 100% obvious that MotM is over with... I was commenting about programs in which it's not obvious that the program is over.

That's all... :grin:

~Alan


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Im not sure I have ever seen a directv, TiVo, replaytv, or ultimatetv DVR that didn't have that kind of white dot to show you where you are in the hour for the guide.

I can't recall if it's in cable DVRs though.

But it is always so small, it's supper easy to miss. I've always wondered if there was a better way to do it. Maybe have the entire guide slowly sliding to the left, and the time on the far left be what the actual time is. I think I have seen that before but I can't remember where. Maybe the old tv guide scrolling channels.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

Xsabresx said:


> The :01 start times are the bane of my existence. They have caused so many unnecessary recording conflicts. Beyond that I havent encountered what the OP is mentioning.


Back before TBS became a separate entity from WTBS (Channel 17 Atlanta - The Superstation), all of the programing on WTBS started at :05 or :35.


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

At 12pm the guide changes over, so you now are only seeing 12pm and on..

At 12:01pm South Park starts

The time is now 12:55pm

Flipping thru the guide you see South Park and want to catch the end.

You scroll to it and hit select to watch it..

But what you can't tell is you just clicked on the show prior to South Park even though it has been over for 24 minutes. The guide has this tiny sliver that you really can't see or notice until you click on it. The pic in this thread is the same example but with such a huge time gap it's easy to see and avoid.

The world is a simple place, at 12:01 South Park should be selected by default NOT the prior program..* More and more channels are doing this on purpose.* Again I had 3 in a row in my guide the other night.

How anyone can say the guide works the way it should is nuts. Common sense tells me I do not want to watch a show that is up to 28 minutes over. :nono2:


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> How odd.
> 
> I've never even noticed that dot before.





wahooq said:


> I never noticed any of this before





dpeters11 said:


> Me neither.


Wow, really? The dot is pretty obvious.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> Unlike many here apparently lol, I'm very well aware of the white dash... and in the pic provided, it's 100% obvious that MotM is over with... I was commenting about programs in which it's not obvious that the program is over.


I'm blown away at the number of responses from people I would think were "power users" that either didn't know what the dot was or never noticed it. It's been in the guide in one form or another on every DVR I've owned going back to the TiVo days.

As far as it being obvious or not that a show is over, it's always obvious based on the white dot.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

saleen351 said:


> How anyone can say the guide works the way it should is nuts. Common sense tells me I do not want to watch a show that is up to 28 minutes over. :nono2:


Then press "right" on your remote, problem solved.

The guide is working as designed. It only shows 30 minute blocks and only shifts when a 30 minute block is over. You use the white dot/slash to see where you are in time so you can tell a show is over.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm blown away at the number of responses from people I would think were "power users" that either didn't know what the dot was or never noticed it. It's been in the guide in one form or another on every DVR I've owned going back to the TiVo days.


Ditto! :eek2:



RunnerFL said:


> As far as it being obvious or not that a show is over, it's always obvious based on the white dot.


No, it's not... a lot of the time, yes, but not always...

~Alan


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> No, it's not... a lot of the time, yes, but not always...


A white dot/dash telling you exactly where you are in live time isn't obvious enough? :lol:

ok, I'm done this has just gotten silly.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> A white dot/dash telling you exactly where you are in live time isn't obvious enough? :lol:
> 
> ok, I'm done this has just gotten silly.


I think it passed being silly a long time ago...

However, yes, it's not always obvious. If you've never ran into those occasions, you're lucky...

~Alan


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Then press "right" on your remote, problem solved.
> 
> The guide is working as designed. It only shows 30 minute blocks and only shifts when a 30 minute block is over. You use the white dot/slash to see where you are in time so you can tell a show is over.


100% wrong... The white dot has zero to do with this issue.


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## Dazed & Confused (Jun 13, 2007)

I want my click back..


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> However, yes, it's not always obvious. If you've never ran into those occasions, you're lucky...


How is a white dot that tells you exactly what time it is not obvious? How is a white dot that tells you anything to the left is in the past not obvious?

Come on, you're just disagreeing to disagree now.

Do you want a voice to come on and say what you've selected is over because you can't be bothered to check the time?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

saleen351 said:


> 100% wrong... The white dot has zero to do with this issue.


Only because you choose to ignore it. It tells you exactly where you are in time. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean the guide is broken.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> How is a white dot that tells you exactly what time it is not obvious? How is a white dot that tells you anything to the left is in the past not obvious?


I'm referring to the times when it's not obvious that there IS anything to the left...



RunnerFL said:


> Come on, you're just disagreeing to disagree now.


No... I simply don't know how to make it any clearer.



RunnerFL said:


> Do you want a voice to come on and say what you've selected is over because you can't be bothered to check the time?


Absolutely not... 

... and for the record, I never said I felt DirecTV should change anything. I simply agreed with the OP that in some instances, it can be annoying! I did bring up a possible change that DirecTV could make, but then stated a reason why that change might not be a good thing.

I think we need to just agree to disagree and drop it. I don't know how to stress what I'm saying any better...

~Alan


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm referring to the times when it's not obvious that there IS anything to the left...


The ONLY times there is nothing to the left of the white dot is on the hour and on the half hour. Even at :01 and :31 there is something to the left.

There, that should be obvious now.


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## calidelphia (Feb 17, 2007)

When it takes 8 seconds for the Guide to pop up when I hit the Guide button...

I consider the Guide broke.


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## PK6301 (May 16, 2012)

calidelphia said:


> When it takes 8 seconds for the Guide to pop up when I hit the Guide button...
> 
> I consider the Guide broke.


You could always look in the newspaper or the TV Guide :lol::lol::lol:


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

But what if this alleged white dot doesn't know where in time IT is, or gets confused or something...HUH???? riddle me that....next thing you know it'll be anarchy and face-eating bath salt zombies


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm blown away at the number of responses from people I would think were "power users" that either didn't know what the dot was or never noticed it.


Me too. 

In all honestly, it's possible I've noticed it before (a long time ago), but have just never paid attention to it, because it's useless to me. The issue being discussed in this thread is not an issue for me (if I'm understanding the issue correctly) and I rarely spend time in the guide anyway. If I'm in the guide and need to know what time it is - I look at the clock.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

wahooq said:


> But what if this alleged white dot doesn't know where in time IT is, or gets confused or something...HUH???? riddle me that....next thing you know it'll be anarchy and face-eating bath salt zombies


It always knows where it is. Watch it and the clock in the upper right corner of the guide. When the clock increments by 1 minute the white dot/slash will move by one space.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I'd much rather see the networks resolve this perceived problem by going back to scheduling one-hour programs for one hour rather than 59 or 61 minutes.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

billsharpe said:


> I'd much rather see the networks resolve this perceived problem by going back to scheduling one-hour programs for one hour rather than 59 or 61 minutes.


You'd still have what people are calling an "issue" because the Movie channels would still start movies at "odd times".


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

I would agree that the highlighted show as you scroll up or down should be the one that contains the little white dot. Pretty sure I've had guides (and probably directv ones) that did that. However, the highlighted show regardless of how it gets highlighted should be the one that gets picked when you hit select. 

Not a big issue by any means.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

RunnerFL said:


> It always knows where it is. Watch it and the clock in the upper right corner of the guide. When the clock increments by 1 minute the white dot/slash will move by one space.


How can you confirm this??? How do you know that it knows what we know?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

wahooq said:


> How can you confirm this??? How do you know that it knows what we know?


Read what you quoted, that's how you confirm it.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

fleckrj said:


> Clicking on a program only takes you to that program if the current time indicator on the top of the guide is at or beyond the start of the program. To jump from the guide directly to any channel requires that the cursor be at the far left of the guide or to the left of the guide and on the channel ID.


I agree with what you stated and I think your post was overlooked. It doesn't actually "fix" what the OP perceived as an issue, but ensures you see what program is currently on.

If you are in the guide and want to make sure to select the current program on any channel, arrow all the way to the left on the channel #. Then select it and it will change to that channel in the PIG. After you view it, if its what you expect, then press exit to view the channel. If its not, arrow up or down in the guide and look for another program you want to watch.


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## jahgreen (Dec 15, 2006)

This is how debates go in Congress.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

:rolling:


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

Hahah I know right I'm just popping by and posting random stuff and Runner is debating me still


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