# Does Dish Use Lease Business Model?



## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

Does Dish Network use the same type of leasing business model as DirecTV? I.E. you never know which receiver they are going to send you, don't know if it is repaired or new, and it could look like it came from a garage sale. I'm about ready to jump ship, but don't want to go from from leaky lifeboat to another.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Technically yes. But it appears that most new installs get the latest and greatest new equipment. When I left DirecTV and got Dish, I got a brand new 722k. Later I added a 211k and it was brand new as well. Of course that's my own experience and what I've gleaned from the Dish forums, so YMMV.

Both are leaky life boats for various reasons, but the leak is slow enough that you won't drown before your 2 yr commitment is up.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks. I have been with DirecTV since they started, and unti they started the lease stuff, I was very happy with them. Even when I went to HD, the installer came out and put in a new dish and gave us a brand new HR22 DVR. It wasn't until the then new HR22 failed that I ran into the dreaded lease problems. They sent me a replacement for my mint condition (cosmetically) HR22 that looked like someone had dragged it behind their car for a few miles on a dirt road. Then I was told there wasn't anything they could do about it. They had "absolutely no control" over what I would be sent as a replacement. Gee, I wonder why I didn't get a Tivo or Dish Network DVR that got shipped to them by mistake. After all, they have "no control" over it.


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## Orion9 (Jan 31, 2011)

Years ago I remember the cable companies advertising that you didn't have to buy equipment with cable. I guess that advertising was successful enough to make the satellite companies change their default business model. (I remember my cable boxes being well used before I received them.) However, you can buy Dish receivers at retailers like Amazon if you wish. Or, if you're beyond a commitment/contract, you can go to a Dish retailer. You'll get the new unit you specify, with less or no upfront cost, but you'll have another commitment.

If its just cosmetics, I guess another possibility is to hide the receiver and use the RF remote.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

Sounds like Dish is very much like DirecTV these days. You can buy a new DVR from a retailer at DirecTV too, but if it fails, goodbye new equipment. Hello junk. Worse, you might not even get the same model DVR you paid for.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

On the flip side - I'm using a DP311 that I'm pretty sure was a refurb, and it looks like it just came off the factory truck...


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

I've yet to see any pictures of these refurbs that look to have been dragged behind a car that people keep getting. Everyone that gets one magically has no camera anymore. All the refurbs I have ever got from D* are very nice looking.


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## [email protected] Network (Jan 6, 2011)

DeweySat said:


> Sounds like Dish is very much like DirecTV these days. You can buy a new DVR from a retailer at DirecTV too, but if it fails, goodbye new equipment. Hello junk. Worse, you might not even get the same model DVR you paid for.


Receivers are ALWAYS replaced with the same model if needed, (722k is replaced with 722k, 622 replaced with 622 etc.) with the exception of obsolete receivers.

Even if it's a refurb, the receivers go through a lot of testing to make sure they work like new.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

matt said:


> I've yet to see any pictures of these refurbs that look to have been dragged behind a car that people keep getting. Everyone that gets one magically has no camera anymore. All the refurbs I have ever got from D* are very nice looking.


Well, if we had the foresight to take a picture before we sent it back maybe so. The HR22 I received back from them had a very dull finish like auto primer. Maybe one of the first one's produced? Mine was glossy black like a Yamaha piano. The back had deep scratches around every port. It was really strange as I couldn't see a reason for it. Each port had about a dozen scratches into the metal that were each about 3/8" long. The top had a long mark in the paint. Not too bad, but not to my standards. When you opened the ports in the front, both were full of dirt, which indicated to me that they had made no attempt to clean up the unit before sending it out. I didn't even want the thing in our house. So, back it went and I told them to not send me another one.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

[email protected] Network said:


> Receivers are ALWAYS replaced with the same model if needed, (722k is replaced with 722k, 622 replaced with 622 etc.) with the exception of obsolete receivers.
> 
> Even if it's a refurb, the receivers go through a lot of testing to make sure they work like new.


If that is true with Dish Network, my hat is off to them. It's certainly not true with DirecTV.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

DeweySat said:


> Sounds like Dish is very much like DirecTV these days. You can buy a new DVR from a retailer at DirecTV too, but if it fails, goodbye new equipment. Hello junk. Worse, you might not even get the same model DVR you paid for.


This typically isn't as much of a problem with DISH Network. It helps that DISH uses different model numbers in contrast to DIRECTV's "Plus HD" designation to cover five incarnations.

I've received three like-for-like replacements over the years and they were all clean, fresh smelling and fully functional.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

[email protected] Network said:


> Even if it's a refurb, the receivers go through a lot of testing to make sure they work like new.


I'm not sure many of the posts here back up this theory. I would like to see the protocol involved in this testing.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

My 722k was labeled refurbished but it looked brand new to me.

All the cables and accessories were included, in sealed bags.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Kent Taylor said:


> I'm not sure many of the posts here back up this theory. I would like to see the protocol involved in this testing.


It assumes the new ones are working well. Operating complaints may be biased after someone discovers their receiver is "used". Once someone learns there is one issue with their receiver ("used") it is easier to take a closer look for other errors ... those errors are likely present on "new" receivers as well but they are not reported as "I got a junk refurb".

There may be some stereotyping at work as well ... someone reports an error on their new receiver and posters here assume it is a "junk refurb" without knowing if it is new or not.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

In my 8 years with Dish I have had 2 receivers replaced both because of hard drive failure.

The replacements were refurbs, but looked maavelous (sic).


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Most companies (not just satellite companies) replace your owned under-warranty products with refurbished models.

I think maybe if you are within 30-60 days some companies will ship a new item if your unit can't be repaired cheaply... otherwise you get a refurb.

I'm not sure what the big deal is.

If you buy something new... and 6 months from now it breaks... getting a refurb that has been fixed/cleaned/tested in exchange IF yours is beyond repair seems fair to me.

It is very rare to have something you use for a while and get to exchange it for a brand new replacement under any warranty I can think of.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> If you buy something new... and 6 months from now it breaks... getting a refurb that has been fixed/cleaned/tested in exchange IF yours is beyond repair seems fair to me.


That's quite reasonable. But it's not reality. DirecTV's so-called refurbs show no signs of being fixed, cleaned or tested. Refurbished used to really mean some effort was made to put an item back in factory fresh condition. Today it usually means a customer return sent right back out the door untouched no matter what condition. I've seen this with most refurbs I've gotten in the past few years, from everyone, not just DirecTV.

I hope MattG is right and that Dish is among the rare few who actually do refurbish.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Most companies (not just satellite companies) replace your owned under-warranty products with refurbished models.
> 
> I think maybe if you are within 30-60 days some companies will ship a new item if your unit can't be repaired cheaply... otherwise you get a refurb.
> 
> ...


And therein lies the problem. At least with DirecTV. Maybe not with Dish. If the units were truly "fixed/cleaned/tested" that would be fine for most people. The problem is that they are not. I have received a lot of so-called refurbished equipment in the past from many companies. They have always looked like new, with perhaps some minor blemishes on the case. That's to be expected. But to ship something out where they didn't even clean the dirt off, that is unacceptable.

The other problem with DirecTV (and again, maybe not with Dish) is that what you receive, even if it looks half-way decent, may be one or two models earlier than the one you sent back. That too is unacceptable in my book.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I hate to be in the position of defending DirecTV 

But I wonder if it is a DirecTV problem or a reseller problem? In other words... could it be "rogue" retailers re-purposing receivers in the field without having sent them back to DirecTV for refurbish?

IF DirecTV (or anyone) is sending out dirty units that haven't been cleaned/tested/fixed... then that is seriously BAD.

I've seen a few refurbs from Dish, and each of them had been cleaned so I can only assume they were tested/fixed as well... no way to truly verify that.

You always (as far as I'm aware) get new cables and remotes even with a refurb from Dish. They never ask for those accessories back when you send a receiver back to Dish.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

The unit I was unhappy with came from DirecTV. Or at least their repair facility. I did get a bag with new cables and a new remote. They wanted back the failed DVR, remote and any extra equipment, like B-Band converters. They did not specifically ask for any cables. This is what DirecTV told me about their refurbs:

"Please note that the replacement equipment that we issue is subject to the discretion and availability of equipment on hand and as such, a refurbished unit is usually sent. Please note that this allows us to manufacture fewer receivers knowing they will be returned and can be refurbished to "like new" condition and redeployed. 

Rest assured that a "reconditioned" receiver is only sent after being reconditioned, inspected, and carefully tested according to our strict quality standards. The receiver comes with a full warranty, the same as on a new receiver"

If only that were true.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

I will say that my first 722 replacement did look used.

For my second replacement (third HD DVR), I switched to a refurbished 722k, which looked brand new as I said above.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Adding to the "only if they were truly refurbed" (DirecTV) theme:

Back in 2007 when I upgraded to HD, I got a brand new HR20-100. Only problem was it had a bad OTA tuner #2. So, DirecTV sent me a replacement unit: A refurbed HR20-700 of course. This one had a bad HDMI output. (now how does a fully tested and functional, "like new" device go out with a bad HDMI output? I know: it's not _actually_ refurbed and tested).

So I called again and they sent me another replacement. Actually they sent two as our call got disconnected mid stream and someohow two units got sent to me as a result. Of those two HR20-700 refurb units, one had a audible and tangible buzz, presumably from the disk drive. Again, something someone would pick up if there were actual refurbishment and testing going on. The other unit I kept and still have to this day.

Granted, my experience is from 2007, but I get the impression not much has changed since. It is for this reason that I made sure to go to a local installer/reatiler and hand select two NEW HR24-200s late last year when I updgraded my remaining aging 2 SD DirecTIVOs.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

When the DirecTV installer put in our new HR24, I told him about my experience with the "refurbished" units. He said that when someone turns in a DVR because they are leaving the service, etc., the repair depot justs sends them back out to customers without doing a thing to them. Don't know how true that is, but it sure seems to go along with what I have experienced with them.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

DeweySat said:


> When the DirecTV installer put in our new HR24, I told him about my experience with the "refurbished" units. He said that when someone turns in a DVR because they are leaving the service, etc., the repair depot justs sends them back out to customers without doing a thing to them. Don't know how true that is, but it sure seems to go along with what I have experienced with them.


I think your installer was telling porkies.

I would hope they at least clean the Cinemax and adult material off of them first.

Can you imagine the lawsuits if not. So I have to believe they at least fire them up reset all settings to like new and format the drive.


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## MattScahum (Oct 27, 2010)

DeweySat said:


> If that is true with Dish Network, my hat is off to them. It's certainly not true with DirecTV.


In most cases though the Dish receivers will have some functional difference. All of th Directv receivers in a particular series have the same functionality, with the exception being if 3d is needed then you are always given a model that is compatible.
To the best of my knowledge(and feel free to correct me) with Dish the 922 and the 722 are vastly different machines. The HR 24 and HR21, aside from having slightly different multi room connetion requirements which are furnished at $0, are exactly the same in terms of what they do. I know you hear that the menus are slower on one than the other but honestly that comes down to software updates.


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## DeweySat (Aug 31, 2008)

MattScahum said:


> In most cases though the Dish receivers will have some functional difference. All of th Directv receivers in a particular series have the same functionality, with the exception being if 3d is needed then you are always given a model that is compatible.
> To the best of my knowledge(and feel free to correct me) with Dish the 922 and the 722 are vastly different machines. The HR 24 and HR21, aside from having slightly different multi room connetion requirements which are furnished at $0, are exactly the same in terms of what they do. I know you hear that the menus are slower on one than the other but honestly that comes down to software updates.


Unless you don't consider storage capacity a functionality. The HR21 has a 300GB or 320GB drive. The HR24 has a 500GB drive. Makes a big difference in the number of hours you can record.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

DeweySat said:


> Unless you don't consider storage capacity a functionality. The HR21 has a 300GB or 320GB drive. The HR24 has a 500GB drive. Makes a big difference in the number of hours you can record.


Fair assessment because of the way D* allows for the use of external HD.

Not such a difference on the E* boxes because the EHD is in addition to the internal drive.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> Not such a difference on the E* boxes because the EHD is in addition to the internal drive.


With the DISH Network solution the EHD is separate and apart from the internal drive as the drive can be moved from machine to machine without resetting or reprogramming.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

harsh said:


> With the DISH Network solution the EHD is separate and apart from the internal drive as the drive can be moved from machine to machine without resetting or reprogramming.


That is true within some parameters. Vip612/622/722/722k/922(?) can all use the same EHD. Other units can't use the EHD used on these.

Of course, with the 211 you can swap it around amongst other 211's, but nothing else.


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