# The Guide Button and the Double Push



## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

Just a quick poll to see what people think about the current function of the guide button. Feel free to leave your comments too.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

I had a speech written out but it all comes down to one push of the button.


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## LittleCupcakes (Jan 25, 2007)

The double-press is a vile abomination.


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## Zaney (Dec 24, 2006)

Get a Harmony remote and program it in Raw Mode to do a double push, works likes a charm.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

Zaney said:


> Get a Harmony remote and program it in Raw Mode to do a double push, works likes a charm.


Spend another $200 when there could be a quickfix - when the unit is stable of course.


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## Barmat (Aug 27, 2006)

Coffey77 said:


> Spend another $200 when there could be a quickfix - when the unit is stable of course.


This long after release? I don't think it will ever be truly stable. Better to move on to annoying little bugs and make the overall experience more enjoyable.
This is one of my most hatted bugs, I mean feature.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Why would they want to "fix" the double press soon or now when the interface refresh is coming out sometime this year. Be more sensible about this situation.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

Two pushes to get the guide is one of the most annoying "features" of the HR20. 

GH


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## Cyrus (Oct 22, 2006)

I would love for them to get rid of this so called feature, but other D* STBs like H20 have it too, so they may be more resistant to this change than the removal of guide animation (another feature than needs to go away).


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## Teronzhul (Sep 21, 2006)

There should have been a 5th option that involved some kind of heinous torture for the individual responsible for making me do thousands of unnecessary guide button presses.


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## jaywdetroit (Sep 21, 2006)

This poll doesn't have an option for:

I use the filter, but it is out of order. Guide should come up on first press. 

Anyway - I think the dev team has heard us loud and clear on this issue. I have a feeling its not high priority right now. 

As i keep hearing about DLBs, stability first, features second.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Teronzhul said:


> There should have been a 5th option that involved some kind of heinous torture for the individual responsible for making me do thousands of unnecessary guide button presses.


Hmmm.....I just push the "Guide" button twice (takes a second or less). I guess I could program my remote to do that for me but I'm just too lazy.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

Zaney said:


> Get a Harmony remote and program it in Raw Mode to do a double push, works likes a charm.


I just got the Harmony 880. I'm still learning the programming and have a little bit of trouble. How do you get to "raw mode" and set it for a double push?


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Didn't vote. No selection for "Don't Care. Harmony works around issue."


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

MartyS said:


> I just got the Harmony 880. I'm still learning the programming and have a little bit of trouble. How do you get to "raw mode" and set it for a double push?


Go here...
http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/logitech_en_amr.cfg/php/enduser/entry.php?c=US&l=EN

Search for raw mode...
Google rules...


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

I think changing it to press guide once and it take you to the guide would be one of the best things that could be done to the HR20, H20, and R15. Having to press the guide twice is the number one thing I do not like about all three of them.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

We need a reply like "I never use the filter, but it doesn't really bother me." I did vote for the second choice. With the latest update I can hit the button twice really quickly and never see the filter.

I can't see me spending $200 for a remote the dogs will jump and chew on, and will spend a third of its time in or under the couch.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

*GUIDE button "displays the Guide" first and Channel Categories second per p. iv. & 4* is currently #4 on the HR20 Wish List Survey.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

Spanky_Partain said:


> Go here...
> http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/logitech_en_amr.cfg/php/enduser/entry.php?c=US&l=EN
> 
> Search for raw mode...
> Google rules...


Thanks so very much!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

I'm so used to pressing it twice I press it twice when I go to my Tivo's which of course does nothing. 

I have used the Movies filter a couple times but other then that no, don't use filters.

It should be press one button to go right to the guide, press it again for filters.


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## Cobra (Aug 9, 2006)

there should be an option for no filter, just the guide, the filter is really annoying to me, I just want to see the guide lol


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

I think somewhere someone has mentioned this, but it is not just the HR20. The 011 model, inexpensive garage unit, also has this feature of double push for guide. Maybe the model is D11, hard to read on the TV that it is on.


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## JMCecil (Jan 20, 2007)

Yep, the guide button should bring up your Custom 1 guide. Or make the default guide configurable so you can choose which you want brought up by default. Put the other guides in the menu.

I did the raw double click in my Harmony 880. But, when you DO want to use the filter it makes it a PITA.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

JMCecil said:


> Yep, the guide button should bring up your Custom 1 guide. Or make the default guide configurable so you can choose which you want brought up by default. Put the other guides in the menu.
> 
> I did the raw double click in my Harmony 880. But, when you DO want to use the filter it makes it a PITA.


PITA?


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## gonzlobo (Jul 4, 2006)

Use the second click to bring up a 'add to current favorite/delete from current favorite' option. The HR20's method of organizing favorites is retarded.


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## brewer4 (Aug 19, 2006)

I just think the filter should be gone completely with an option of Yellow to add a filter. In fact, I programmed my Harmony remote to do double guide to remove the filter when I hit the Guide button.


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## cdc101 (Jan 9, 2007)

BMoreRavens said:


> I think changing it to press guide once and it take you to the guide would be one of the best things that could be done to the HR20, H20, and R15. Having to press the guide twice is the number one thing I do not like about all three of them.


I concur.


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## JMCecil (Jan 20, 2007)

Spanky_Partain said:


> PITA?


Pain in the ###


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

JMCecil said:


> Pain in the ###


Oh, ok I haven't ever gone back to learn anything else. So if you go back to learn something else it runs the filter check on ALL learned/programed buttons and gives you a problem?


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## JMCecil (Jan 20, 2007)

Spanky_Partain said:


> Oh, ok I haven't ever gone back to learn anything else. So if you go back to learn something else it runs the filter check on ALL learned/programed buttons and gives you a problem?


If you actually want to use the filters, it is hard to get to them if you program the double click.


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## andy A (Sep 14, 2006)

PITA, PITA, PITA, for over ten years now on every DBS box I have owned, when the "guide" button was pressed a funny thing happened, the guide came up  I'm an old dog now and sort of set in my ways and when Master Pavlov tries to teach me new tricks it sucks.

Andy


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## JMCecil (Jan 20, 2007)

andy A said:


> PITA, PITA, PITA, for over ten years now on every DBS box I have owned, when the "guide" button was pressed a funny thing happened, the guide came up  I'm an old dog now and sort of set in my ways and when Master Pavlov tries to teach me new tricks it sucks.
> Andy


That is the central problem. When you click a button that says "Guide", most of us expect that a "Guide" will come up.

However, because of the number of stations available it has become necessary to filter the guides to managable lists. But, for some reason instead of having a default guide, D* has decided that the filter list is the logical place to start. This is bassackwards thinking at its finest.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Got to agree with others here... the double push was a mistake from the word go. It should be removed, maybe when the new user interface is rolled out.


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## JMCecil (Jan 20, 2007)

lamontcranston said:


> .......maybe when the new user interface is rolled out.


Is there a new interface in the works? In general I like the current one. There are just some odd behaviors here and there. The actual interface itself is layed out fairly well.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

JMCecil said:


> That is the central problem. When you click a button that says "Guide", most of us expect that a "Guide" will come up.
> 
> However, because of the number of stations available it has become necessary to filter the guides to managable lists. But, for some reason instead of having a default guide, D* has decided that the filter list is the logical place to start. This is bassackwards thinking at its finest.


I think it was a mistake in programming, actually. Doesn't the manual describe it working as most of us would like?

Doesn't explain why it hasn't been fixed. Probably someone has now decided that "it's not a bug, it's a feature."


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I'm so used to pressing it twice I press it twice when I go to my Tivo's which of course does nothing.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that! I go to watch TV in the bedroom and it takes me a second to figure out why I'm not getting the guide showing up after two presses of the guide button. DOH!

Personally, I don't see this as that big a deal. I press the guide button twice in rapid succession and never even see the filters screen. It jumps right into the guide after that....


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Sharkie_Fan said:


> Personally, I don't see this as that big a deal.


Big deal? No. Annoyance? Yes. Especially for those of us who use other DVRs in combination with the HR20.

Should be fixed.


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

I never use the Channel Category Filter. The order is wrong and really annoying. Move the Channel Cat. Filter to the second press! 

That is saying it nicely. When I press the GUIDE button I expect a GUIDE, not a guide sort filter garbage! This has to be the one thing I truly hate about the HR20. The setup is very wrong, its just not right to force me program my Harmony 550 to do the guide blast twice. Having the sort list is useless junk anyways, they NEED to fix other guide sorting issues, like channels I receive, and not put a useless guide menu in the way. Or at least give the option to turn that crap off.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drewg5 said:


> I never use the Channel Category Filter. The order is wrong and really annoying. Move the Channel Cat. Filter to the second press!
> 
> That is saying it nicely. When I press the GUIDE button I expect a GUIDE, not a guide sort filter garbage!


You'll be please to know that this "feature" is also on the H20 HD receiver.

Perhaps once the next generation GUI comes out later this year, this will all go away, and folks can just point to pretty pictures or icons to tell the system what they want...


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## kenmoo (Oct 3, 2006)

I don't mind the Channel Filter and do use it some of the time. My problem is I don't like the order as the HD Channel Filter is at the bottom and that's the filter I use. Didn't seem to be a way to cast this specific vote. Is there a way to change the order the filters are listed?


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## Just J (Oct 11, 2006)

I hope they change it, if only so I can sit back and enjoy the show as people go insane trying to re-train themselves *not* to do a double-press .


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

JMCecil said:


> That is the central problem. When you click a button that says "Guide", most of us expect that a "Guide" will come up.
> 
> However, because of the number of stations available it has become necessary to filter the guides to managable lists. But, for some reason instead of having a default guide, D* has decided that the filter list is the logical place to start. This is bassackwards thinking at its finest.


AGREE! Unfotunately, I think there are many such examples in the current UI.

Someone mentioned a new user interface coming out. Does anyone know anything about that, this is the first I heard of that.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

cbaker said:


> AGREE! Unfotunately, I think there are many such examples in the current UI.
> 
> Someone mentioned a new user interface coming out. Does anyone know anything about that, this is the first I heard of that.


It's just a refresh, _not_ a complete uphaul. It should be like the change from the old Active to the new Active you see today. Brighter colors, easier to read fonts, crap like that.


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

jaywdetroit said:


> As i keep hearing about DLBs, stability first, features second.


It is indeed annoying, but 1 of the less annoying 1's...I wish you could at least go up to start at the bottom.

Anyway, on the quote, I'd reverse stability and DLB.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

JMCecil said:


> Is there a new interface in the works? In general I like the current one. There are just some odd behaviors here and there. The actual interface itself is layed out fairly well.


Slides of a new UI were shown at last year's investor's meeting. Since then there hasn't been a lot of chatter about it.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

*Memo*
From: Customer Prevention Department
To: Development
Re: HR20
*Company Confidential*

We have reached a point where we have become a take-over target because we have too many customers. You must immediately do everything in your power to prevent new customers.

1. Every other GUIDE button in the history of man goes to the GUIDE. Make ours do something else. We suggest something like Channel Categories.

2. In at least two places near the front of the manual state that pressing GUIDE will go to the GUIDE. We recommend this in the diagram of the remote on page iv and again on page 4.

3. Our research shows that 4 out of 258 people will actually like being treated this way. But for every 4 new customers, we should prevent at least 254.

4. Other steps must be taken immediately as well. The user interface must be as slow as you can make it. USE ANIMATIONS TO INSURE IT WILL BE AT LEAST TWICE AS SLOW.

Also consider steps to reduce usabillity of Search and Autorecord.

That is all.
[/humor]


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## cbaker (Dec 20, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> *Memo*
> From: Customer Prevention Department
> To: Development
> Re: HR20
> ...


:hurah: :hurah: :hurah:

5. And lets limit the prioritizer to some random number ... say 10 times the roll of this dice ... okay 50.

6. To really confuse the user, lets put some features like seach by date and time under the guide and put all the other search features under the main menu. That should cost a few customers.

:lol:


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## ctwilliams (Aug 25, 2006)

I try not to post on things like this because it seems so pointless....but for the love of (insert here whatever you think is holy) FIX THE BUTTON! It makes no sense!

GUIDE=GUIDE not FILTER.


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## mrudo (Jan 23, 2007)

The double press is not new. H10, H20, ...they have had it for a while.
Annoying yes, but my programmable remote got rid of it by havign ti call the guide button twice.
Passes right to the guide without having to even see the channel filters.
It's a Harmony BTW...but an MX by URC could do it as well.


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## chadiswar (Aug 28, 2006)

Just program your harmony to send guide twice...never have to worry about it again.


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## DonCorleone (Jan 29, 2006)

chadiswar said:


> Just program your harmony to send guide twice...never have to worry about it again.


As much as I've mentioned earlier that this is more of a minor annoyance and I don't want it being the top priority....I agree the Harmony is the solution, but why should people be expected to buy a $180 (or whatever it is) remote because of a meanignless "feature."


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

When you press a button labeled "guide" you should get the GUIDE. Whoever thought this double punch thing was a good idea .............


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## Atherwood (Jan 10, 2007)

While the current order is clearly wrong, the utility of a "Channel Category Filter" idea could be improved by letting the viewer decide what the filters would be. 

For example let me put my top searches there (maybe even cached searches to make them fast)! This would be something that I would actually use...


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## chef8181 (Jan 25, 2007)

It wasn't bad at first but now it's super annoying. Any other cable or sat box when you press the guide button you get the guide...not a filter list.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

I can't believe people are so passionate about this. In the grand scheme, it's just not that big of a deal to me.

And, if you look at page 26 of the manual, it says, "Tip: Press the GUIDE key twice to skip the Channel Categories screen." Or course they could change the manual, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it will never change.


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## NYHeel (Aug 21, 2006)

On my 676, I also set up a To Do list button which basically presses list and then the yellow button to go straight to the to do list. 

I do agree that the hr20 does it wrong and you shouldn't need to buy a Harmony remote to do it right. However, if you already have a Harmony, or any other macro capable remote (you could probably buy one for $10-$20), you might as well set it up to work the best way possible.


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## ManOfChill (Sep 15, 2006)

NYHeel said:


> On my 676, I also set up a To Do list button which basically presses list and then the yellow button to go straight to the to do list.
> 
> I do agree that the hr20 does it wrong and you shouldn't need to buy a Harmony remote to do it right. However, if you already have a Harmony, or any other macro capable remote (you could probably buy one for $10-$20), you might as well set it up to work the best way possible.


Great idea!! I wish I had thought of that, but I'll use it anyway on my MX. Thanks.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

This is not limited to the HR20, it's the way the guide works in all of the D* units using this interface - H20, H10........

Doesn't bother me, just click the button twice and be done with it.....


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## anopro (Sep 13, 2006)

Don't understand DTV's thinking on this my Hughes HNS HD receiver is press guide once brings up guide. Second press brings up categories should have been this way from the start! 

Ultimate TV 1st software had something like this but they fixed it within a month or so along with a slew of other improvements.


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## Shake Well (Apr 12, 2006)

When they decided to give us channel filters, for which we never asked nor does it seem most people use, they should have given us a way to choose what filters and in what order they appear. Furthermore, we should be able to chose whether or not the filters even come up (as mentioned above in this thread).

Now, on the Harmony, it seems that some do not understand the true bliss known as the Harmony 800/890. First of all, it is not $200 now as you can get it for around *$150* at CompuPlus and Amazon. Secondly, you can not only program the double push on the Guide but also put your Yellow/Red/Blue/Green buttons in the upper LED portion or program little macros to land where ever you like. The best thing is the WAF rating though. The misses loves the single remote with one touch buttons to go from D* to DVD, Xbox 360, HD DVD, VCR, Radio, or CD listening.

Back OT, if you label a button as "Guide" it should go to the Guide... is this hard from engineers to understand?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

mnassour said:


> When you press a button labeled "guide" you should get the GUIDE. Whoever thought this double punch thing was a good idea .............


Maybe it was a Cablevision programmer! :lol:

On my SA8300HD, press the guide button and you get a main menu with guide the first ite on the page, and you have to then press select to get to the guide. There's also a HUGE button on the remote labeled "iO" (the cable service name), which takes you to the same main menu. So not only do you have to press two different keys to get to the guide on my 8300HD, you also have a redundant key on the remote! :down:


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

OFF TOPIC: How are all you folks who do macros with the Harmony remotes getting that done? I have the 676 and the TC30, and I've never figured out how to get one key-press to send multiple IR commands for the same device ... What's the secret?


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

So far 4 out of 258 would be upset if the GUIDE button went to the GUIDE on the first press.

Did we just find 4 guys from the design team?

You don't even have to say it was a mistake. 

Just explain that you have a bunch of idiots for subscribers who want the GUIDE button to go to the GUIDE. Go figure.

- Craig


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

I think the numbers are proof D* you need to fix the guid


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

drew2k said:


> OFF TOPIC: How are all you folks who do macros with the Harmony remotes getting that done? I have the 676 and the TC30, and I've never figured out how to get one key-press to send multiple IR commands for the same device ... What's the secret?


Use Learn IR, for your TV blast the guide button from the D* remote, set both tv and hr20 to send the guide command...


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## SuperTech1 (Jan 9, 2007)

I received a letter from D* today with my "Remote Control Reference Card". Has anyone else received this yet? One thing I noticed for "Guide" - Press twice to see On-Screen Program Guide.
Makes me think that won't be changing anytime soon.


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

SuperTech1 said:


> I received a letter from D* today with my "Remote Control Reference Card". Has anyone else received this yet? One thing I noticed for "Guide" - Press twice to see On-Screen Program Guide.
> Makes me think that won't be changing anytime soon.


Yes I got it today as well.... I think there trying to tell us they didn't **** it up.. And to think people are asking for DLB knowing D* f-bomed the guide so bad it is now a new *feature* This sucks


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## brittonx (Dec 26, 2006)

If D* wants to keep the guide button response in the same order, perhaps they could provide a setting in all current and future unite to swap the guide button response order. This way, they can ship the units the way they want them and those of us who want to swap the order could do so.

What do you think?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Drewg5 said:


> Use Learn IR, for your TV blast the guide button from the D* remote, set both tv and hr20 to send the guide command...


Thanks ... never would have thought to do that!


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

cbaker said:


> :hurah: :hurah: :hurah:
> 
> 5. And lets limit the prioritizer to some random number ... say 10 times the roll of this dice ... okay 50.
> 
> ...


7. We have a large amount of remotes in stock. When the remote Guide button is pressed twice as many times, it will surely wear out the button making the remote virtually useless, hence selling a remote that will lower our over stocked items.


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## opelap (Nov 4, 2006)

Give me the UTV type with many custom guides that you can scroll through with each press of the guide button.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

So 2% of users like the fact that the Guide does not come up when you press the Guide button.

So we just located the 6 guys from the design team who are on the forum.

Who would have guessed...

- Craig

*Animation - Making us stupider one screen at a time.*


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> So 2% of users like the fact that the Guide does not come up when you press the Guide button.
> 
> So we just located the 6 guys from the design team who are on the forum.
> 
> ...


I really do like to hit the HD channels in guide and then the movies before I start filing through the rest of the crap that is on. 
As long as I can still do that, I don't care how I can. If it is the second or first menu does not concern me.


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

This should be really simple, as I've posted here before.

Make this a SETTING, just like banner display time, etc. The setting would be really simple:

Default Guide Display

1) Categories
2) Grid

Depending upon which setting you choose, that guide display will come up after pressing the guide button once. Press the guide button a second time, and you'll get the other guide display.

D*, let us CHOOSE how we want the guide to come up by default!


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

WOW! I think the results are clear.

Now, how many of you would like to see a Double "Menu" Press to go to *My Playlist* ala TiVo?

For example, now you have to press Menu then Select to go to My Playlist. I would like to see a double "Menu" press. Or even better, use one of the Color buttons to take you straight there. ie from Live TV, Green gets you My Playlist and Red gets you the Scheduler.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> So 2% of users like the fact that the Guide does not come up when you press the Guide button.
> 
> So we just located the 6 guys from the design team who are on the forum.


!rolling


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## nick1817 (Feb 12, 2007)

I kinda like it is now. I would be happy to just get the Chennels I Receive working


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## dallascontractor (Jan 9, 2007)

It wears out the batterys faster on both units to push the Guide button twice to get to the real Guide. *D* lets save energy.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> WOW! I think the results are clear.
> 
> Now, how many of you would like to see a Double "Menu" Press to go to *My Playlist* ala TiVo?
> 
> For example, now you have to press Menu then Select to go to My Playlist...


Just press LIST to go straight to My Play List.

If you have not taken the animation poll, it is here:

To Animate or Not To Animate; That is the question

The same members of the HR20 design team are wanting to keep their animations. Check it out!

- Craig


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## W9CDL (Dec 26, 2006)

As a very recent (Dec. 22, 06) DirecTV convert after a 10 year run with Dish I have been annoyed by the slow menus, guides and the like from the word go. I am all for faster everything. I go there with the intent of accomplishing a task. It is annoying to wait.

The obvious thing is to go directly to the guide and to the sort options second. This to me seems to be painfully obvious. But it is something new and there is room for change. It looks like I share the opinions of the majority. 

I look at things like this. I am man and this is a computer. As man I created the computer and it should wait on me, I should not have to wait on it.

However I am a total techno geek and I am willing to suffer a little to play with the latest and greatest. I am one of those people that are always trying the newest and the greatest and to expect everything to be 100% and like everything right from the word go is unrealistic IMHO. 

The fact that DirecTV is interested in continuing improvement and willing to listen to input from the customers that make them what they are, is hands down enough to keep me on board despite the current flaws.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Just press LIST to go straight to My Play List.


Thank you. Looks like I need to update the Harmony.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

W9CDL said:


> As a very recent (Dec. 22, 06) DirecTV convert after a 10 year run with Dish I have been annoyed by the slow menus, guides and the like from the word go.


Then be glad you didn't switch sooner. The HR20 guide is blazing compared to the DirecTiVo guides.:eek2:


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## Kapeman (Dec 22, 2003)

If anyone is interested here is the link to the slideshow that LamontCranston refers to:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/12/127160/pres/SlidesInvestorDay22206.pdf

The info on the new interface is on slide 60, but there isn't much there.

There is a good bit of intresting info in this presentation, e.g that VOD will use broadband.


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## AFH (Nov 4, 2002)

It's dumb, just plain dumb to have to press the guide button twice to bring up the guide. No wait a minute, it is retarded!  Directv if you're viewing this, fix the double button hit thing for bringing up the guide.


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## MizzouTiger (Jan 10, 2007)

Okay, I have to say it really doesn't matter to me whether you have to push the guide button once or twice to bring up the guide. The D10 receiver is the same way. Just because I could, I reprogrammed by Harmony 880 remote so that one push of the guide button brings up the guide.

One thing I would like to see is that pressing the guide button again would make the guide go away, like on the Tivos.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

MizzouTiger said:


> Okay, I have to say it really doesn't matter to me whether you have to push the guide button once or twice to bring up the guide. The D10 receiver is the same way. Just because I could, I reprogrammed by Harmony 880 remote so that one push of the guide button brings up the guide.
> 
> One thing I would like to see is that pressing the guide button again would make the guide go away, like on the Tivos.


I won't have my HR20 for another10 days, so I have to wait to learn all this stuff. I've always hated my mother's Samsung DirecTV receiver, because it was the same: hit Guide to see it, hit Guide again and you get options, and only Clear/Exit removed it.

Guide should be a toggle. On/off. Nothing more, nothing less. Want options like filters/categories? Assign them to the colored buttons or to the Info key or something. Come on!


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Let's see...98% of our customers don't like that the Guide button does not bring up the Guide.

We could:
1. Leave it and not admit we made a mistake.
2. Take about an hour and fix the Guide button.

After 6 months, we never got past 1.

- Craig


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

My thumb hurts double pushing the guide button.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

1.7% Like the double push. So the rest must be punished...

Also, if you have note taken the Animation Poll, please take it now!

- Craig


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> 1.7% Like the double push. So the rest must be punished...
> 
> Also, if you have note taken the Animation Poll, please take it now!
> 
> - Craig


Just like people who smoke...

There is no justice for ALL!


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## TMatt (Oct 2, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> I can't believe people are so passionate about this. In the grand scheme, it's just not that big of a deal to me.
> 
> And, if you look at page 26 of the manual, it says, "Tip: Press the GUIDE key twice to skip the Channel Categories screen." Or course they could change the manual, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it will never change.


I'm with you MT - It really does not matter to me which order the screens appear one way or the other. Thus, if this is the "toggle" Earl was referring to, I for one will be disappointed.

I could not vote in the poll since there was no choice "This option is not important to me"


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## BuckeyeNut (Dec 3, 2006)

I don't care about the Double Guide Button Press.
I don't see what all the fuss is about. Granted it seems odd at first, but when you get used to it, it's not a major deal at all:nono2: 

Making mountains out of mole hills:nono: 

I think focusing on the overall performance and fixes before campaigning for features is the necessary route to take. Especially a measley double press guide button.


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## mgcsooner (Dec 18, 2004)

Agree with Kenmoo, would be a n ice feature. I use categories almost half the times because the D* channel numbering is totally illogical to me. I would expect all the sports channels to be together, the movie channels together, childrens, news, etc Sports are the most frequent I use and they are the worst.

D* seems to be positioning the channels in a sequence that is similar to a supermarket where products have to pay extra to be placed at eye level.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

BuckeyeNut said:


> I don't care about the Double Guide Button Press.
> I don't see what all the fuss is about. Granted it seems odd at first, but when you get used to it, it's not a major deal at all:nono2:
> 
> Making mountains out of mole hills:nono:
> ...


I totally agree with you, BuckeyeNut. Fix the big problems first, then tweak the system.

Bill


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## Tiger Tony (Dec 16, 2006)

I have a good idea!

How about one press on the guide button gives you a choice of:

FILTER (_) or CHANNEL GUIDE (_) 

Then select your option.


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## namja (Jan 8, 2007)

It's not a SUPER BIG DEAL! But why deliberately do something that is inconvenient for the customer?

I just wanna tap Directv's head and yell: "HELLO! McFLY?!?"


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

The classic solution in search of a problem.

When I was younger in software engineering, I'd sometimes make the same kind of mistake. You want to show off (animations) to a certain extent.

Obviously, that was really professional immaturity on my part. And probably NDS's part too.

Remember folks - This isn't DirecTV software - it's NDS software. The difference in perception will likely become more imporant if/after Liberty takes over.


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## jefe303 (Feb 5, 2007)

CSR's should reimburse for batteries! Plus personal injury after the guide button wears down and a metal spike is exposed. 

It's not all that bad, they could have put a ring of LEDs around the guide button and animated each press.


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## waters212 (Feb 18, 2007)

Hmmmm? I have a Harmony 880 and tried to get the guide button to shoot its signal twice but could not get it to work. I called Harmony and was advised that programming a single button to send a signal twice was not possible. Has anyone gotten the 880 to send the guide signal twice via one press? If so, please enlighten me. Thanks.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

There is light at the end of this tunnel. Just keep moving towards the light...

- Craig


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## Terry K (Sep 13, 2006)

The version that Earl has talked about in Cutting Edge will make your guide issue go away.


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## avatar230 (Oct 18, 2006)

waters212 said:


> Hmmmm? I have a Harmony 880 and tried to get the guide button to shoot its signal twice but could not get it to work. I called Harmony and was advised that programming a single button to send a signal twice was not possible. Has anyone gotten the 880 to send the guide signal twice via one press? If so, please enlighten me. Thanks.


There used to be a roundabout backdoor way to do this in the Harmony control panel because each button function (GUIDE for example) would have a column for each device used in the activity in question (so for watch PVR, you'd have your PVR, your television and your receiver). It used to be that you could "learn" a command supposedly coming from your television that was in actuality a duplicate of the guide command from your PVR remote. Then, in the dropdown menus you could cause the GUIDE function to send "Guide" from the PVR *and* "Learned Guide" from the TV or whatever device you programmed it onto.

Visiting my Harmony control panel for the first time in quite awhile last night, it appears this menu interface has changed and now each command can indeed only send out one signal at a time. Has anyone found a new workaround?


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Almost 400 respondents so far.

So we just found out that the Guide button is screwed up to make 8 guys happy?

To bad the results are not public. It would be fun to know who was on the design team.  

- Craig


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

If you got 0x134, you can now fix your Guide button!

Press and hold the Guide Button on the *front panel* of the HR20.

While still holding the Guide Button press the Active Button on the *front panel* of the HR20.

Release both buttons.

Now your Guide Button is fixed! 

You can you press Guide and get Guide on the first click!

-Craig

_Now if they could just turn off the animaitons!_


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## dsm (Jul 11, 2004)

I appreciate the change as it should have been this way all along, but unfortunately I have two sets of channels I frequently like to scroll through: Favorites and All HDTV Channels. Switching to a one button click is a wash for me since I use these two cases about 50/50.

The only way to make me happy would be to have two guide buttons with different favorites attached. I'd be happy to do that with a universal remote, but I'd have to use a key sequence to get to "All HDTV channels" I believe. Now if they would publish a list of master key codes for jumping into the various menu points, that would be nice. Or does this exist already?


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

dsm said:


> I appreciate the change as it should have been this way all along, but unfortunately I have two sets of channels I frequently like to scroll through: Favorites and All HDTV Channels. Switching to a one button click is a wash for me since I use these two cases about 50/50.
> 
> The only way to make me happy would be to have two guide buttons with different favorites attached. I'd be happy to do that with a universal remote, but I'd have to use a key sequence to get to "All HDTV channels" I believe. Now if they would publish a list of master key codes for jumping into the various menu points, that would be nice. Or does this exist already?


If you press the Guide button a second time, you will still be able to see Channel Categories. Nothing has been lost.


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## dsm (Jul 11, 2004)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> If you press the Guide button a second time, you will still be able to see Channel Categories. Nothing has been lost.


I understand, it just turns out to be a wash for me.

Hey, if the second push to the guide button would show the "custom 2" favorites that would be nice for me!

-steve


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## jtmedma (Jan 30, 2007)

Hi,

I did not vote, needed another option for me.
I do not use the Channel Categories, I would like to see hit "GUIDE" button once get guide, hit it 2nd time get back to the program you were watching without going thru the Channel Cat. screen.
Maybe they can make a software change to turn off the Channel Cat as an option.
Thanks,

Jim


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## MizzouTiger (Jan 10, 2007)

Okay, first let me say that given a choice of having the Guide come up with one vs. two button pushes, I would pick one.

Now, why has everyone (or almost everyone) made such a big deal about having to push the Guide button twice to get the guide to come up? Is it just because the manual says that is the way it is supposed to work? My D10 was that way and my my H20 is that way as well. To me it isn't that big of a deal. Since I recently purchased a Harmony 880 remote, and because it had the ability to, I did go ahead and program it so that one push of the Guide button pulled up the guide. But again, it was just because I wanted to see if I could get the Harmony to do that - it really didn't matter to me. The problem I have now is that my HR20 in the living room only requires 1 button push and my H20 in the bedroom requires 2 button pushes, so sometimes I get used to doing it one way and when I go to use the other receiver, it does the opposite of what I want it to do.

Did no one else have any of these other D* receivers that also required 2 pushes of the Guide button? Or do I just happen to have "defective" ones?

Just wondering what all of the commotion was about.:scratch:


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

kenmoo said:


> I don't mind the Channel Filter and do use it some of the time. My problem is I don't like the order as the HD Channel Filter is at the bottom and that's the filter I use. Didn't seem to be a way to cast this specific vote. Is there a way to change the order the filters are listed?


Here is the shortcut: Chan ▼ Select.

- Craig


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> If you got 0x134, you can now fix your Guide button!
> 
> Press and hold the Guide Button on the *front panel* of the HR20.
> 
> ...


It's great that a solution was found, but am I right that this is just an interim solution? It would seem that pressing a certain button combination on the front panel is more of a "hack", when this feature should most likely be implemented as a user modified settng via a menu selection. Any idea if it will move in that direction?


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

drew2k said:


> It's great that a solution was found, but am I right that this is just an interim solution? It would seem that pressing a certain button combination on the front panel is more of a "hack", when this feature should most likely be implemented as a user modified settng via a menu selection. Any idea if it will move in that direction?


Rumor has it that may be exactly what we see in the not too distant future...

- Craig


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

MizzouTiger said:


> Now, why has everyone (or almost everyone) made such a big deal about having to push the Guide button twice to get the guide to come up? Did no one else have any of these other D* receivers that also required 2 pushes of the Guide button? Or do I just happen to have "defective" ones? Just wondering what all of the commotion was about.:scratch:


I'm with you on this one. I cannot imagine for the life of me why this is such a big deal except maybe to someone who is racked with arthritis and each button push is a major effort, or who has no fingers and is pushing with their nose, or...I dunno. And my other receivers require two pushes, no big deal.

Yeah, it's better with one button. But I don't understand the commotion, either.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> I'm with you on this one. I cannot imagine for the life of me why this is such a big deal except maybe to someone who is racked with arthritis and each button push is a major effort, or who has no fingers and is pushing with their nose, or...I dunno. And my other receivers require two pushes, no big deal.
> 
> Yeah, it's better with one button. But I don't understand the commotion, either.


IMHO, it's about instant gratification. The buttons is labeled Guide, so most people expect pressing it will bring up a channel guide. To have it bring up a menu is not the same - no instant gratification.

Now we have it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

drew2k said:


> IMHO, it's about instant gratification. The buttons is labeled Guide, so most people expect pressing it will bring up a channel guide. To have it bring up a menu is not the same - no instant gratification.
> 
> Now we have it.


Here is what I find "curious" about that...
The function of that button hasn't changed in 3 years till now.

That is how it worked with the D10 (The first receiver with this GUI)... through the H20. I even remember some of the older Sony IRD's that had the filter first, and you had to pick one (just not hit the guide button again).

But it wasn't until the R15/HR20 until I started to see people upset about it.
IMHO, mostly becasue they came from a platform that didn't have the filter as the first option.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

yep samsung sir-ts360.. case in point


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But it wasn't until the R15/HR20 until I started to see people upset about it.
> IMHO, mostly becasue they came from a platform that didn't have the filter as the first option.


I'm guessing it's because the introduction of the R15 and HR20 prompted a lot of people to upgrade from non-DVR DirecTV receivers ...

Prior to the D10, when several manufacturers had their own branded DirecTV receivers (RCA/Sony/Hughes/Philips/Samsung), the remotes each had a guide button that went straight to the guide. DirecTV really went off in a different direction with their own line of DVRs by altering the behavior of the Guide button. They must have had a reason for it, but it escapes me!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

drew2k said:


> I'm guessing it's because the introduction of the R15 and HR20 prompted a lot of people to upgrade from non-DVR DirecTV receivers ...
> 
> Prior to the D10, when several manufacturers had their own branded DirecTV receivers (RCA/Sony/Hughes/Philips/Samsung), the remotes each had a guide button that went straight to the guide. DirecTV really went off in a different direction with their own line of DVRs by altering the behavior of the Guide button. They must have had a reason for it, but it escapes me!


I am 99% positive that one of my Sony and one of my Hughes receivers when to a "filter" list before going to the guide.

I personally enjoy the new option... but I just get a chuckle when it is like "armagedon" because of the filter coming up first.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Here is the shortcut: Chan ▼ Select.
> 
> - Craig


.. or the "EXIT" button. 

EDIT: Never mind. I misread the OP. I thought he was asking how to get out ofthe Guide screen completely.


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## Picketeer (Feb 27, 2007)

It is what it should be!


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