# 4th quarter subscriber totals



## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Does anybody know how many subs D* added in the 4th quarter I believe E* added 430,000.


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## Greg Bimson (May 5, 2003)

DirecTV added 444,000 net new subscribers in Q4 2004.


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## BabaLouie (Apr 2, 2004)

Does anyone know how many subscribers both providers LOST during the same period?


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

"Net gain" or "Net loss" = new adds minus cancellations for a given period, as in the 4th quarter. That's why, during periods of net increases none of the three DBS providers really gives a rats ass how many subs they "lost" during the period.

It's all about the net.


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

BabaLouie said:


> Does anyone know how many subscribers both providers LOST during the same period?


I dont have E* numbers but I'm sure they are in the same ballpark. I know the bottom line for companies is net gains, but common sence (i know, i know most companies don't have common sence) would lead you to be concerned about the millions of customers you are losing and each year its going up.

D* - 4th quarter

new subs (1,103,000) - lost subs (659,000) = net gain subs (444,000)

D* - 2004

new subs (4,218,000) - lost subs (2,490,000) = net gain subs (1,728,000)

D* - 2003

new subs (3,206,000) - lost subs (2,170,000) = net gain subs (1,036,000)

D* - 2002

new subs (2,811,000) - lost subs (1,761,000) = net gain subs (1,050,000)


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

For the 8 millionth time since Moses got lost in the wilderness, it's *sense*, not "sence". Please pay atention. 

Churn is a cost of doing business. When you give something away practically for nothing, that's perzactly how much the average cablehead thinks it's worth. I doubt the typical cablehead can tell the diference. :shrug:


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

Actually the cost of doing business would be lower for companies like Echo$tar should they start improving the quality of their customer service to their existing subs. I work in the wireless industry and I have to say that once churn starts getting up there, programs launch and the companies start listening to the customer here. Being a quasi-cablehead and satellite buff, I think I can say that both companies have long suffered from the short sighted effects of adding as many subs as possible and not worrying as much about their existing ones. Since returning to Comcast Digital lately, I have received a hand written thank you from their local office and have had next day turn around time on service calls. They also replaced my drop coming into my house without my request and the installer replaced my basement wiring for a cup of coffee and piece of cake. LOL! That's service with a smile. I can't say anything bad about DirecTV they have treated me well, but it if E*'s numbers keep dropping, I won't be surprised. They need to stop worrying about the PIG so to speak and work on ways to keep from giving up the cow.


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## dishjoe (Feb 28, 2005)

hmm... I wonder how many subs are in the NY area. If E* had the YES network subs in NY area would be so much higher. How many Yankee/Nets fans in the NY area? Millions!!!


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

Nick said:


> For the 8 millionth time since Moses got lost in the wilderness, it's *sense*, not "sence". Please pay atention.
> 
> Churn is a cost of doing business. When you give something away practically for nothing, that's perzactly how much the average cablehead thinks it's worth. I doubt the typical cablehead can tell the diference. :shrug:


"perzactly" is not a word. Please pay attention 

I understand that customers come and go. It's a part of business. Whatever company you work for or whatever bussiness that company is involved with, 2 million customers is a lot of people. Maybe its just me, but I'm just stagered that any company would consider losing 2 million customers each year has just doing business. Image their customer size if they lowered that? :eek2:

From the public records of cost of getting a new customer (that i've seen), wouldn't it be less of a cost to retain current customers?


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

Exactly....


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

lazaruspup - i agree with you that E* needs to forget about the PIG and worry about thier own house.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

cboylan3 said:


> I dont have E* numbers but I'm sure they are in the same ballpark. ...


From the latest E* financial report (4th Quarter FY2004):

 For the Years Ended December 31, 
2000 2001 2002 2003  2004

DISH Network subscribers, as of year end (in millions)
5.260 6.830 8.180 9.425 10.905

DISH Network subscriber additions, gross (in millions)
2.554 2.722 2.764 2.894 3.441

DISH Network subscriber additions, net (in millions)
1.850 1.570 1.350 1.245 1.480

Monthly churn percentage
1.39	% 1.60	% 1.59	% 1.57	% 1.62	%


Extrapolate from that, and E* LOST about 2 million subs (1.62%/month * 12months * 10 million) in all of 2004, but had a net GAIN of about 1.5 million subs.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

It's mind boggling to think that DISH lost 40 times the customers that Voom has and its still an acceptable industry standard. I would sincerely think that companies would make a better ploy to keep customers put. That continuing revenue that they lose out on would tremendously help out on those recently reported subscriber acquisition cost numbers that we've all been seeing.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

lazaruspup said:


> It's mind boggling to think that DISH lost 40 times the customers that Voom has and its still an acceptable industry standard. I would sincerely think that companies would make a better ploy to keep customers put. That continuing revenue that they lose out on would tremendously help out on those recently reported subscriber acquisition cost numbers that we've all been seeing.


I see from your sig that you've contributed to the churn of just about everybody.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

lazaruspup said:


> It's mind boggling to think that DISH lost 40 times the customers that Voom has and its still an acceptable industry standard. I would sincerely think that companies would make a better ploy to keep customers put. That continuing revenue that they lose out on would tremendously help out on those recently reported subscriber acquisition cost numbers that we've all been seeing.


especially since voom has only got .364% of the customers e* has and .286% of the customer d* has !!!!!!


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## cboylan3 (Jan 26, 2004)

Hey Mikey - thanks for the E* info.

Yup, E* and D* numbers are in the same ballpark.

BabaLouie - I hope we all answered your question


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I wonder how many of those subscribers end up returning back to the service later on?

Also figuring in the churn that they have, I wonder how many of those subscribers they can keep if they would reduce the programming price or offer a bonus at the end of each year or six months if they keep the service. That would probably be better than losing them and more profitable to them as a company in that they would end up keeping those customers even if it meant them making less of of them. They need a better customer retention department.

Also I wonder how many of those that have churned have called in to disconnect or just simply didnt pay their bill and had a nonpay disconnect.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

Yes I have added a little to churn here and there.. but as an educated consumer, I am going where I can get the best bang for my buck and that includes first class customer service. I must say that when I left DirecTV the first time it was because they didn't have a dvr, no other reason in the world. I wanted to be able to record and that was going to be done with the Dishplayer. Now, that instance does figure into our conversation because I think that if satellite companies can differentiate themselves from one another(DISH's internation programming, DIRECTV's open commitment to HD locals), they are going to be better off in the long run. I think with the right funding, Voom may yet survive this foray simply because they offer something different. A little ahead of their time, maybe... but different none the less.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I personally think the three issues where VoOm suffers is that they require a credit card or a large amount of money for their hardware, not very many people know about their service, and they have no locals (their OTA antenna does not count). Another thing is that many people do not even have HD tv's yet or do not see the big advantage of HD so they see no need to switch providers to go to VoOm.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

I think the first two issues are null though since most ppl who would even have an interest in Voom would be those with decent credit or a credit card. Voom's demographic would have to be higher than those of DirecTV or DISH as a whole. On that same note, the up front cost has dropped considerably since they went to the $1 install with the leased receivers. As for their survival.... I hope, but we'll see.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

But still VoOm had very high churn considering the high cost of the hardware or the credit card requirement, even worse than DirecTv or Dish Network.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

Looking at the news since November-December, some of the churn could possibly be attributed to peoples' insecurity as to whether Voom was going to be around very long...


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

lazaruspup said:


> Looking at the news since November-December, some of the churn could possibly be attributed to peoples' insecurity as to whether Voom was going to be around very long...


Has Cablevision posted churn numbers for VOOM for the months since November? I don't think those are out yet.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were talking 4th quarter numbers... my oops.


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