# poll for name based timers



## pcirone (Jan 6, 2003)

how about a poll for name based timers? with all the back and forth on the subject, let's see how much they are really wanted? maybe something like:

i really want name based, on my wish list
i want name based, but could do just fine without
it really doesn't matter, i don't get it
i don't want name based, it will make life worse for me (?)


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## Tom Horner (Dec 19, 2003)

If this is the same as Season Pass with TIVO, then it is probably going to be a must for me.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

pcirone said:


> how about a poll for name based timers? with all the back and forth on the subject, let's see how much they are really wanted? maybe something like:
> 
> i really want name based, on my wish list
> i want name based, but could do just fine without
> ...


You may go ahead and start the poll if you wish. Registered members can post polls in this forum.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I believe there is a senario here. To have a Dish DVR without previously having any DVR is an improvement and some people cannot live without it as it is a must have for them, and they do not know what it is like to have a DirecTivo so they dont know what it is like to have it whereas if they did know what it was like and had DirecTivo then perhaps those that have DirecTivo may not be able to settle for a Dish DVR because the name base recording may be a must have for them since they know what its like to have it whereas if they didn't know then it may not make as much of a difference to them.


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## scot (Aug 18, 2003)

Its a dealbreaker for me. Until I see name based recording and a season pass function, I will be waiting for the HDTivo.


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## rickwyo (Jul 12, 2002)

I would not want to give up the time based recording that I have now and see it replaced with name based recording. Back when I used the original DishPlay 7200, the name based recording drove me crazy because it would record every instance of a program with the same title. The long wait until they supported manual timers seemed like forever.

If there is to be name based recording in future Dish DVRs, please don't take away any of the current functionality, and consider a more sophisticated name based design than the "every time" option on the old 7200 DishPlayer.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Name-based means that late scheduled or unexpectedly scheduled eps will be caught, but that's about it, and how often does that happen? I had 3 different NB PVR's and don't really miss it now that I have 3 different time-slot based PVR's instead.

What I liked about those NB PVR's was that all of them would automatically catch theme-googled stuff. The DISH PVR's can search, so even without NB they theoretically could approximate that feature, but they currently require that you make a conscious effort (click on a searched result item to record it). That could be changed even without a wholesale change to (or addition of) NB. I'd actually prefer to see that first.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

TomCat said:


> Name-based means that late scheduled or unexpectedly scheduled eps will be caught, but that's about it, and how often does that happen? I had 3 different NB PVR's and don't really miss it now that I have 3 different time-slot based PVR's instead.


No, it means that any schedule change will be caught, and that happens all the time. If you enjoy checking your timers every night to make sure you'll get what you want, more power to you. A lot of us find that it's simpler to just set the timers once and have the machine do the rest.

If Dish doesn't add name-based recording to the 721 (which they claim they will) by the summer, I'm going to DirecTV. (There are other issues which are keeping me from moving until then or I would've already done so.)

Dennis


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## MikeSoltis (Aug 1, 2003)

> ...any schedule change will be caught


Only if the schedule change is caught by those who do the schedule that your PVR uses. And with the (lack of) expediency of Tribune media doing lineup changes on my Tivo... I'll be happy with time based recording and checking with TitanTv.com for those must have recordings.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

MikeSoltis said:


> Only if the schedule change is caught by those who do the schedule that your PVR uses.


Right, but I used name-based recording on a Replay unit for 2 years and I didn't have one instance of a missed or incorrect recording because the guide wasn't updated in time (aside from unavoidable stuff like sporting events running long, last-minute presidential speeches, etc.). I'll gladly take my chances with name-based recording any day.

Dennis


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

dbronstein said:


> ...it means that any schedule change will be caught...


If you check daily, "any schedule change" is exactly equal to "late scheduled or unexpectedly scheduled", so we're both saying the same thing. Except that if you check daily, unexpected or late changes are exceedingly rare, at least in prime and other dayparts I am interested in, and do not happen all of the time.

If there were a PVR that accurately caught every program I wanted automatically (without me having to check a day ahead for 15 seconds every night), I would be all for that. But, such a box does not exist, at least not any branded "Tivo" or "Replay". If you are a casual viewer I can see how a nearly accurate yet hands-off approach might be appealing. But its worth it to me to make that check so that the 24th ep of "24" isn't missed...unless you have an extra $60 and two years to wait for the DVD.

I've owned both, and timeslot-based with checking is significantly more accurate than NB without, and even more accurate than NB WITH daily checks, surprisingly enough. An old beloved boss once taught me to "expect what you IN-spect". That, along with TB, works beautifully for me.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

I've owned both as well, and I've never missed a program on my Tivo or UTV with NBR during their two year usage lifetime, until I switched to Dish. I've missed a number of shows on a monthly basis with my craptacular 721. NBR is superior to timers in every way... Then again, I wasn't using the Dish EPG, so maybe that would have an impact on it. But I seriously doubt the Dish EPG is signifigantly less accurate than the DTV EPG.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Inaba said:


> But I seriously doubt the Dish EPG is signifigantly less accurate than the DTV EPG.


This Dish EPG is just fine. I've never had an instance where it didn't have the correct show listed (aside from the previously mentioned unavoidable stuff).

The preference for name-based or time-base recording seems to come down whether people enjoy checking their timers every day to make sure they are correct or if they prefer to have the machine just automatically record the shows they tell it to.

Dennis


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## ccwf (Dec 4, 2003)

There's also the issue of programs which aren't shown on a regular schedule. Examples: 
Sports events
Programs on the SciFi channel, which runs a different cluster of shows every weekday
To a lesser extent, programs on channels that often run irregular marathons or bonus episodes, like MTV, Bravo, Cartoon Network, WB Kids, &#8230;.
Movies and programming on movie channels
 For example, I use name-based recording to automatically record games for a number of sports teams and events, rarely aired movies, and movies which have not yet aired. Sure, I could scan the listings every day to see if any of those movies I wanted to record were on, to see if my teams were playing a televised game, to see if ESPN is showing a chess match as they do a few times a year, and so forth. But it's a _lot_ less hassle to just let the DVR do it for me.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> This Dish EPG is just fine. I've never had an instance where it didn't have the correct show listed (aside from the previously mentioned unavoidable stuff).
> 
> The preference for name-based or time-base recording seems to come down whether people enjoy checking their timers every day to make sure they are correct or if they prefer to have the machine just automatically record the shows they tell it to.


I know... I was just trying to be diplomatic. The Dish EPG is just fine, and I would have every confidence in a UTV or Tivo using the Dish EPG as I had with both of them using the D* EPG. As of now, I have very little confidence in the timer based recording system of the 721. I absolutely hate that I have to babysit my stupid $500 PVR, where my $50 PVR required exactly zero babysitting.

Dish's motto for thier PVRs should be "10x the price, and 1/10th of the functionality of the competition! Buy Dish PVRs today!"

CCFW -

I agree with you 100%. Sci-Fi during the summer is an absolute nightmare to keep up with on the 721. I hadn't realized how much they switch crap around until I switched to Dish and suddenly found myself spending a ridiculous amount of time in the timer menu on the 721. Little did I know just how good I had it with UTV


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## Valor55 (Dec 31, 2003)

Tivo NBR works and has a feature when setting up a season pass to record every instance of the show or only new episodes. Otherwise once it records a show it ignores that episode for 30 days.

I have no idea what channels and what times most of my shows are recorded from. I set it and forget it. This is a major feature I won't be willing to let go of when I upgrade to a HD DVR. I'm planning on waiting until the D Tivo comes out and see how it compares to the 921 and then I'm deciding. I love Dish but NBR is a deal breaker for me and the 921 must have it to turn me from Tivo.


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## Patrick Bennett (Dec 27, 2003)

A ReplayTV rep hinted (at the 2003 CEDIA show) that they'll have an HDTV unit soon as well. Maybe I'll wait a while as well. I'm not quite sure I'll go so far as to switch to DirecTV from Dish, but I agree, not having decent 'smart' scheduling capabilities is a major problem with the Dish PVR's.


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## ccwf (Dec 4, 2003)

But such a ReplayTV HDTV unit would be limited to over-the-air HDTV broadcasts, right, unless they managed to make a deal with and integrating their units with DISH or DirecTV or are banking on and integrating OpenCable?


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

Geez, i don't know what everyone complains about. It's a nightmare to keep up with? Once the EPG comes in, rarely does it change within those 9 days. All you have to do is do a simple search for the events you want once a week, and set those to record. Don't get me wrong, I want NBR as well, but to call TBR a nightmare is kind of far fetched.


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## Patrick Bennett (Dec 27, 2003)

I basically asked the Replay guy the same questions but he wouldn't say much. I said that short of having a built-in encoder that could handle HD bitrates, they'd be limited to HD already in digital form (ie: OTA), and the rep just smiled (hinting at more). *sigh* I really don't see them doing the encoding in-box and have the quality (or price) be reasonable, but I'm definitely curious.
Replay for whatever reason has had a hard time getting good licensing deals, but perhaps with Denon/Marantz owning them now, they might have a better chance. We'll see.
If I could get a ReplayTV/DirecTV/HD receiver, I'd probably switch to DirecTV from Dish.
As for Tivo, I heard mumblings at CEDIA about a fallout with Tivo & DirecTV receiver manufacturers, and the continuing downplaying of the 'tivo' name (at least from what I saw) in recent pvr's has me wondering how much of the gossip was true. If the HDTivo ends up being decent once it (finally!?) hits the market, it may be enough to sway me as well.

As for Dish, when I talked to a couple of DishNetwork people, they made it very clear that Charlie was a real stick-in-the-mud about being beholden to *anyone*. He pretty much refuses to pay anybody for software or licenses unless he has no other choice. The insistence on Dish doing all their own software is in 'some ways' good, but in general, is definitely not in the customer's best interest. My 501 was a complete piece of crap for the first 6 months (at least) that I owned it. Update after update after update and it still stunk. It's *still* a bit flakey, but mostly works as a "digital VCR."
The fact that Dish after all this time doesn't seem to think programming capabilities for their PVR's is that important makes me question if I should just take my business elsewhere. Add to that things like Dish receivers never allowing RS232 control (for reliable automation control or for things like Replay's/Tivo's to use for channel changing) and the foul taste in my mouth just gets that much... fouler. 

Still, I've been a fan of Dish for some time now, they showed an early commitment to HD that I respected, and at least in the past, had better picture quality than DirecTV. All the new DirecTV-based units with 'real' PVR's in them has me constantly questioning my loyalties though.

As for the 921, it certainly has me intrigued because of HD recordings (being first foes count for something) but because Dish still refuses to 'get it' when it comes to Replay/Tivo functionality, I'm going to wait around until somebody comes up with something that's implemented correctly. $1000 is too much to pay for something with less programming functionality than a $150 replay or tivo. The fact that there's a monthly fee (there isn't with my Replay) with the 921 doesn't thrill me either. Dish already provides an EPG for all Dish customers - it's part of the satellite service. To expect customers to pay extra for something they already get free is a bit too tacky for my tastes.


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## Patrick Bennett (Dec 27, 2003)

> Geez, i don't know what everyone complains about. It's a nightmare to keep up with? Once the EPG comes in, rarely does it change within those 9 days. All you have to do is do a simple search for the events you want once a week, and set those to record. Don't get me wrong, I want NBR as well, but to call TBR a nightmare is kind of far fetched.


Obviously you've never used anything but TBR then. I've frequently missed shows with my 501. I've never missed shows with my Replay. I have about 30 shows set to record on dozens of networks. Many of those shows don't have set schedules and are on at all times of the day and on different days. There's no way my 501 can handle that.


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## Danny R (Jul 5, 2002)

In addition to name based recording, the Tivo also allows you to have it just record new programming and skip reruns. Very handy. I am frequently having to disable timers on my 501 because the show is a repeat and something else is on during the timeslot that I want to watch.


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## ccwf (Dec 4, 2003)

Patrick Bennett said:


> Obviously you've never used anything but TBR then. I've frequently missed shows with my 501. I've never missed shows with my Replay. I have about 30 shows set to record on dozens of networks. Many of those shows don't have set schedules and are on at all times of the day and on different days. There's no way my 501 can handle that.


 I often have over a 100, but many of these are new or old movies I'm waiting for (_X-Men 2, Terminator 3,_ Brannaugh's _Hamlet, Nick Knight,_ &#8230, specific episodes of shows, and such. Some TiVo owners have reported having multiple hundreds of items set for their DVRs to look for and record. It wouldn't be impossible to look for all of these potential recordings manually, but it would be extremely tedious.


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

Patrick Bennett said:


> Obviously you've never used anything but TBR then. I've frequently missed shows with my 501. I've never missed shows with my Replay. I have about 30 shows set to record on dozens of networks. Many of those shows don't have set schedules and are on at all times of the day and on different days. There's no way my 501 can handle that.


There's no way it can handle that?

What are you saying...if you run a search for the show you want, it'll show all the times it'll be on. Just set those times to record, rarely and i say rarely does the EPG ever change once it comes on to the dish pvrs.


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

ccwf said:


> I often have over a 100, but many of these are new or old movies I'm waiting for (_X-Men 2, Terminator 3,_ Brannaugh's _Hamlet, Nick Knight,_ &#8230, specific episodes of shows, and such. Some TiVo owners have reported having multiple hundreds of items set for their DVRs to look for and record. It wouldn't be impossible to look for all of these potential recordings manually, but it would be extremely tedious.


While I agree that setting a wishlist for new or old movie on TiVo is better than checking for it weekly, it isn't much of the trouble to do it with DishPVR. It takes about a same time to enter name of the movie into wishlist as to enter it in DishPVR search. If name comes up you are even, if it doesn't you can set auto-record on TiVo and you can come back to history screen on DishPVR and check every week or so. In case of new movies you are even again because new movie is most likely to come up on PPV - you don't want to set auto record wishlist on TiVo since it will lock on "do you want to pay" screen. Catching an old movie with auto wishlist is a nice concept - no questions about it - just make sure that neither you or guide have a misspelling in a name (like Branagh's Hamlet for example)


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## ccwf (Dec 4, 2003)

Hi, samo. 



samo said:


> If name comes up you are even, if it doesn't you can set auto-record on TiVo and you can come back to history screen on DishPVR and check every week or so.


 So the history screen remembers past searches? If so, that's neat, and I didn't know that.


> In case of new movies you are even again because new movie is most likely to come up on PPV - you don't want to set auto record wishlist on TiVo since it will lock on "do you want to pay" screen.


 TiVo WishLists are supposed to list but not record from PPV channels.


> Catching an old movie with auto wishlist is a nice concept - no questions about it - just make sure that neither you or guide have a misspelling in a name (like Branagh's Hamlet for example)


 Actually, my WishList is simply for Hamlet, but your point is very, very well taken. Name-based searches are only as accurate as your names.

Does DishPVR have a facility like TiVo's ability to search for actors and directors? blindlemon just posted again about how his TiVo searches for and automatically records based on hundreds of keywords, actors, and directors. :grin:


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## grneal (Oct 14, 2003)

MikeSoltis said:


> Only if the schedule change is caught by those who do the schedule that your PVR uses. And with the (lack of) expediency of Tribune media doing lineup changes on my Tivo... I'll be happy with time based recording and checking with TitanTv.com for those must have recordings.


How does TitanTv.com work with the DVR 510 or the PVR 508?


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

> TiVo WishLists are supposed to list but not record from PPV channels.


Didn't know that. 4 years after it been promised my SA still doesn't have any PPV listings for Dish 


> Does DishPVR have a facility like TiVo's ability to search for actors and directors?


No, just a keywords search in either title or title and description. If you enter name of the movie actor and it appears in description you'll get all programs with his name including all the reruns of TV shows. On other hand, I can't imagine 100s of actor name wishlists. Wishlist will find a movie even if actor has cameo role - I'll have to sort and delete junk on daily basis.


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