# Feeling slimed after dealing with D*



## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

I absolutely hate having to deal with D*. Given that this is the season of programming lulls and my unwatched list is getting short I finally overcame my reluctance and ordered an HR34.

My detailed setup is in my signature. Up until a week ago I had a SWM8 and no DECA, just direct ethernet connection to one of my DVRs. As usual, I refuse to let a D* installer hack put new things in my central wiring location so I obtained and installed a SWM16, wired CCK, DECA adapter, band stop, an green splitters. All my receivers were back to working normally including internet.

I had not been using Whole-Home so my first call this week was to activate it. Of course I couldn't do it online because my account wasn't marked as having DECA (D* fail #1). So I call an 800# that was on an old card that had been sent to me years ago as a "VIP customer" or so I thought. Nope, it's now the PPV ordering number; agent had to transfer me (fail #2). The English was pretty good and I could understand fine although there was a LOT of other voices in the background that made it a bit difficult. No doubt an offshore (India probably) call-center sweat shop (#3). Took maybe 5 minutes of the agent doing multiple things before it finally appeared as Authorized on my DVR (this suggests systemic flaws - #4). Then agent started doing something without clearly telling me what he was doing; I finally realized he was ordering an equipment replacement for my "old" HR20. I asked him to stop and not do that as I planned on returning it in a few weeks after I got some new equipment. $3/mo more for Whole-Home. I asked about the HD/DVR/Whole-Home @ $20/mo package that I heard about. ONLY for new customers he tells me. 17 years and over $150/mo and they are refusing a $1/mo "discount"! (#5) End of first call.

So now I'm interested in an HR34. Want to get rid of my H20 (and eventually my HR20 once I'm convinced the HR34+my external drive is stable). Of course I can't order the HR34 online (#6). I call the normal customer number and ask for retention. I tell agent I'm interested in an HR34, that I want to upgrade my H20, and what kind of deal can I get. (Perfect English, clear sound, obviously not offshore. One point credit!) First, I can't upgrade my H20 to HR34. I can ONLY ADD an HR34. But I can immediately call back and cancel my H20. Fail #7. I'm offered free install ($50). How generous to have a grunt come to my house to connect 3 wires and take 30 minutes of my time (I figure it would take me maybe 5 minutes to do same). But HR34 is $399; period. I tell agent there is no way I'm paying anything like that knowing full well that many people are getting it for much less and that if D* continues to treat me like this I'm moving to Dish or cable. Agent says he is not authorized to discount and that he has to talk to supervisor. What seems like 10 minutes pass. He comes back on line and says he is still working on it. Another 10 minutes. (What a great time for a bathroom break.) Finally comes back on the line and offers a $200 credit. Wow (NOT)! At the same time I'm staring at my account online and there is a big splashy loyal customer free HD DVR upgrade - a $199 value. I'm so glad I spent 20 minutes listening to music to get the same credit I could have gotten for another model. I hate wheeling-n-dealing so I grumble a bit and finally accept. Fail #8 for having to spend all this time and frustration when I could have just pushed a button on a web page. Of course it takes another 5 minutes for agent to do all the data entry to order and schedule install (#9 as it would again be one button online).

Then I ask about AM21N off air tuner. Agent can see it in his system but can't see any way to order it. (It CAN be ordered online but out of disgust I order from Solid Signal instead.)

Then after all that I'm forwarded to "3rd party verification". English very hard to understand (sounds hispanic). Very noisy connection. Another 5 minutes repeating all the legal CYA and reviewing the order. Repeatedly telling me what a fine product I've acquired and how happy I will be with it. Finally I can say "Yes" and be done with it. Instead of a single button push online. Fail #10.

"Thank you for being a loyal customer for 17 years"… Why do I feel like I just came from a prostate examine?

Then I start getting calls from an 800 number. My caller id says "TOLL FREE". I never answer those as they are almost always spam. It never leaves a message. I finally google the number and find out it is D* confirmation robocaller. Is it too much to ask for their call to come up DIRECTV INSTALL??? Or leave a message (even if it is going to keep calling)?? #11. They send an email too - gee, suppose it would be too hard to allow confirmation there (hey, just put a stinking CONFIRM link in the email - ONE BUTTON). Fail #12.

Now I get to endure an installer. And call back again to turn off and return an H20. And eventually call and return an HR20. And finally call again to order an RVU client when it becomes available. By then my hair will be falling out even faster.

All for around 300 channels of which we watch maybe 20 regularly. Actually, it's about 5 less than that as they are actually off air channels. Half of the stuff we record is off air. $1900+/year. And should my DVR fail (I will be using external storage with RAID-1 so at least a disk fail won't sink me) I will lose on average 2 months of programming I paid for. Apparently I should be thrilled at the privilege of being a D* customer.

The grief, cost, and value have passed the breaking point for me. I'm stuck with a new commitment but this is probably my last 2 years of D*.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Do you feel better now?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Do you feel better now?


:lol: That was the most overly dramatic post/story I've ever read on here. All that complaining and drama over a 50% discount.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> :lol: That was the most overly dramatic post/story I've ever read on here. All that complaining and drama over a 50% discount.


Then you both missed the points entirely.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

I think he should have just gotten an antenna and been done with it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Then you both missed the points entirely.


I'd guess the main "point" was to vent, which is fine here.
I feel a bit slimed by reading the whole thing, but I could have not.
I could pick at some of your numbers/items, but guess that wasn't your point either, so why do it?


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

It's nap time. You will get old very quick fussing like this.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'd guess the main "point" was to vent, which is fine here.
> I feel a bit slimed by reading the whole thing, but I could have not.
> I could pick at some of your numbers/items, but guess that wasn't your point either, so why do it?


Why? One way to "get a message" to D*. Sure, I could try to complain directly to D* which, at best, would result in a $10 credit; maybe. Followed immediately by totally ignoring the point.

To shake people into realizing what a bad deal this is. To suggest that more people should raise hell about this state of affairs. To encourage other companies to try something different/better. To get input on alternatives that work.

For example, the Channel Master CM 7400, although having some early growing pains, is an excellent step forward from a concept perspective. Free off air PVR with Vudu PPV (same $5.99). $50/year for advanced guide data. Sure, model has some problems but I expect a new model with improvements. They get a bit more content (some HBO & SHO series) and better hardware/software and D* is DEAD in this house. Their hardware/software issues are no worse than D* was with the first HRs.

Jobs claimed to have "cracked" the TV problem. Said this while Apple TV was already in the market so that isn't it - at least not entirely. Do something like the CM7400 and they will bury D*.

Maybe dbstalk is only for people who love satellite... not for people more interested in the programming and features...

As for pointless posts, there are 99% that are more pointless.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Are you really comparing Apple to DirecTV? Do you realize how completely unrelated their customer bases are? Apple isn't selling Macbooks to Joe Six Pack wanting to watch his Cowboys on his fancy 27" tube tv by any means necessary.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Why?


In looking over your first post, sure something could be different and better.
I don't want to be called some Fanboi as they sure as hell aren't perfect, and maybe compared to Apple they fall well behind.
I've talked to a fair amount of other companies and have suffered much worse service.

Now as I look at most of your items, most seem to stem from what you've done:

D* fail:


they've got to be mind readers to know what you've installed yourself?
they changed their number from "years ago"
sometimes I can't understand talking to CSRs in this country
sort of goes back to #1 doesn't it?
I too called about this and my option was to change my old program package to the newer one and it would cost me more, to "save $1"
also goes back to #1
it isn't an "upgrade" to change a non DVR to a 5 tuner DVR, it's a new receiver.
yes it can be a pain dealing with them, but if your account status is up to date it shouldn't be as bad. I've had worse calls with other companies.
it took a whole 5 mins?
so you're upset that they took the time to verify the order.
seems self imposed as with 12
You may see these differently and I see no problem with that, or being able to *****/vent here without being harassed, which I'm not trying to.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Ok everyone, discuss and rant away but please keep it civil and on topic...I'm just sayin'

Mike


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Thanks, VOS. Your reply makes complete sense. So much so, that I now don't need to read the OP.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Are you really comparing Apple to DirecTV? Do you realize how completely unrelated their customer bases are? Apple isn't selling Macbooks to Joe Six Pack wanting to watch his Cowboys on his fancy 27" tube tv by any means necessary.


At a very high level they aren't that different. If memory serves, Apple's computer sales are around 20% of total revenue. Most Apple households have multiple iPod/iPhone/iPad; multiple Macs; maybe an AppleTV. The vast majority of households are NON-technical; I know several senior citizens with Apple stuff. Cloud sharing is becoming the norm. PPV through iTunes. TV mirroring stuff playing on iPad, etc. Bottom line - mostly unskilled people with complicated setup.

If someone is part of the unskilled crowd they call and actually get much better phone support or they walk into an Apple store and maybe use the genius bar.

MULTIPLE levels of service. All the way from hand-holding to savvy people ordering directly. I'm on the extremely savvy end and I've never talked to an Apple sales or support person. I can configure and order their most complicated hardware in less than a minute.

Another great example. We have iPhones. My son's non-smart phone commitment expired recently. I went on AT&T's web site and went click, click, click and his new iPhone was on it's way. It arrived and I went online and went click and it was activated. A couple of minutes later it was working and the old one was disabled.

Nothing D* does has to be as complicated as it is. Even if you need hand-holding it could still be much better. For the love of... you can't even go online and click a button to cancel/return a receiver! It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't even activate a new receiver online.

Everyone should care about this. All this inefficiency does nothing but cost them a LOT of money. And we ALL pay for it.

I don't even have expensive sports packages and I still pay in excess of $2000/yr for this "service".

I used to get nickeled-n-dimed by the local phone monopoly too. Very similar situation. Charging me to allow their hardware to pass caller id through to me. Fee this fee that. Can't block callers or a multitude of other little things without calling and no doubt paying. They aren't in my house any longer. OOMA blows them away on every count.


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## txfeinbergs (Nov 16, 2005)

Wow, I read the whole thing. All I can ask is how do you get through each day without having a heart attack?


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

To resync the context here after my followup was deleted along with another reply, here is my Apple comparison again...

_The post is more about the overall experience. Have you ever ordered a computer from Apple? Apparently Apple feels that it's customer base is smart enough to figure out how to customize a computer order. Depending on the model, how many processors and what speed, how much memory (and gee it can even tell you what memory config is allowed based on how many processors!), how many disks or SSDs at what speed, etc, etc. Apple... which sells mostly to non-technical people.

If Apple was D* I would be on the phone for an hour to buy a computer. A thousand other people would be ordering at the same time and dozens of different prices for the same thing. Apple may be a small premium (all things considered) but it's powerful, simple, and WORKS. Check out the company valuation and stock price to see which way wins. D* is apparently full of MBA fools that learned how to do business the old fashion way - badly.
_


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

unixguru said:


> Another great example. We have iPhones. My son's non-smart phone commitment expired recently. I went on AT&T's web site and went click, click, click and his new iPhone was on it's way. It arrived and I went online and went click and it was activated. A couple of minutes later it was working and the old one was disabled.


Sure, you can do this with DirecTV too. You even said yourself you could have ordered an HD-DVR for free from their website and it would have been sent to you.

As far as the HR34, they just don't have it set up to be ordered online yet in all markets because it is still limited somewhat in availability. So you might have to call in to order it. Is it really that big of a deal. If you really wanted to order it online so bad you could have went to SolidSignal, or many other websites and done so easily.

The problem is you expected a discount on the HR34, which isn't something DirecTV just hands out to anyone. If you want that discount you have to work for it. Did you expect a discount on your son's iPhone or did you pay the same $199/299 that everyone else pays for it when renewing their contract? If you were ok with paying the same $199/299 for it then why weren't you ok with paying the same $399 for the HR34 that most people are expected to pay?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"I think" the big difference here is DirecTV is "installer based", as none of this is a stand alone product.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> they've got to be mind readers to know what you've installed yourself?


Of course not. But would it really be that hard to allow customers to update their own information online? Do they necessarily always have correct info in the system even when only their people do the work?

They have a list of receivers.

Multiple choice checkbox: dish type; switch type; CCK type if any
With each receiver: using whole-home checkbox; TV connection type(s); using external drive checkbox

Put in under an "Advanced Configuration" page. Maybe even present a quiz to authorize an account for advanced configuration access.

At a very high level there are two kinds of customers. Those that "know" (and "do") and those that don't. Judging from the activity on these forums there are a LOT of people that know and do. A little bit of effort (development) on D* part makes life easier (and cheaper) for them and the people in the know.

I'm a low-50's retired/disabled software engineer. Having worked in the top tier of the software industry for 25+ years I understand all about customer satisfaction, development effort/cost, market and legal issues, etc, etc. There is no good reason why D* shouldn't do it and plenty of reasons why they should.

For those customers that don't "know" and "do" then they just need to clean up their phone service and let the installers loose.

If D* doesn't want anybody but their contractors touching the setup then they should not allow any satellite equipment to be sold directly to consumers.



veryoldschool said:


> they changed their number from "years ago"


Of course this is a minor observation. Smart companies don't repurpose 800 numbers. They close them and start a new one. Or at the very least the first automated message (after language selection) should be "You have reached the Cinema ordering line. If you were looking for customer service, press ...".



veryoldschool said:


> sometimes I can't understand talking to CSRs in this country


My intent isn't to be harsh about the people. But just what is the purpose of a CSR? To communicate with the customer to take actions that the customer cannot take themselves. Therefore, shouldn't their primary skill be to communicate well in the native language?????

The agent in retention had perfect communication skill. As for the 3rd party verification... If all they are going to do is recite legal and CYA crap then why isn't it a prerecorded message that we can understand?

There is really no excuse for this from any company.



veryoldschool said:


> it isn't an "upgrade" to change a non DVR to a 5 tuner DVR, it's a new receiver.


That's a terminology thing that is all D* problem, not customers. I have box XYZ that I pay $6/mo for. I want a different box with more features. I already have other DVRs so the DVR fee is mute. I'll still pay $6/mo for this new thing. Only question should be how much does it cost to "purchase" the lease for the new features.

Imagine a granny calling and wanting to do this. Why does D* make the CUSTOMER jump through the hoop of ordering a NEW ADD device and then doing a separate transaction to cancel/return the old?? It's crap customer service, plain and simple.



veryoldschool said:


> it took a whole 5 mins?


Nothing by itself but adds up. Ridiculous that it's needed at all.



veryoldschool said:


> so you're upset that they took the time to verify the order.


Of course not. The way it is done. Could have been robot speaking clearly to me and then press # to confirm. Or hang up and not listen to it and click confirm in email.

None of this jumps out as horrible by itself but the accumulated incompetency is a great example of why this country is going down the tubes. Like I said, I used to work for huge supposedly technically literate company - most of them are just as bad or worse. It's never going to get better if people don't start complaining more loudly.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Of course not. But...


[again] I'm not saying their system is good or the best.
"I'd guess" most customers don't really have a clue as to what they have or what they need for adding hardware, so I'm not sure how well a webpage "customer updating" would work.
The technology has been evolving with SWiM, DECA, 5 tuner DVRs, and the RVU clients.
DirecTV has also added a verification in the install process to activate receivers.

Working within their system might not be as hard as working from outside of their system.

I know this because I've done a lot of my own additions and things only sync'd with my online account after a had the mover's connection and an installer out. On his work order was an IV verification for a DVR I'd had for maybe two years.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Considering half of the DirecTV installers out there get confused and are flat out wrong about some stuff I can't imagine how screwed up some people's accounts would get if they were allowed to update their systems on DirecTVs website. Like the installer recently telling someone they can't have SWM and use ethernet for internet/MRV. That is plain wrong, I've been doing it for years now.

Sure some of us on here know enough and would be able to do it easily, but I would guess 99% of their subscribers would just get confused by it, or royally screw it up because they think they know what they are doing.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Beerstalker said:


> Considering half of the DirecTV installers out there get confused and are flat out wrong about some stuff I can't imagine how screwed up some people's accounts would get if they were allowed to update their systems on DirecTVs website. Like the installer recently telling someone they can't have SWM and use ethernet for internet/MRV. That is plain wrong, I've been doing it for years now.
> 
> Sure some of us on here know enough and would be able to do it easily, but I would guess 99% of their subscribers would just get confused by it, or royally screw it up because they think they know what they are doing.


I hope someone won't mind me passing along their comment.


> Can you imagine the fiasco if there isn't at least some barrier to changing profiles? It's a phone call vs. clicking online. While it's true that a few thousand people are geek enough to be here, when you're talking 20 million customers .. well, the "stupid" customers far outweigh the "smart" ones.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> Sure, you can do this with DirecTV too. You even said yourself you could have ordered an HD-DVR for free from their website and it would have been sent to you.
> 
> As far as the HR34, they just don't have it set up to be ordered online yet in all markets because it is still limited somewhat in availability. So you might have to call in to order it. Is it really that big of a deal. If you really wanted to order it online so bad you could have went to SolidSignal, or many other websites and done so easily.
> 
> The problem is you expected a discount on the HR34, which isn't something DirecTV just hands out to anyone. If you want that discount you have to work for it. Did you expect a discount on your son's iPhone or did you pay the same $199/299 that everyone else pays for it when renewing their contract? If you were ok with paying the same $199/299 for it then why weren't you ok with paying the same $399 for the HR34 that most people are expected to pay?


So if the HR34 had been out longer, was in greater supply, and was orderable online, I would have been offered the $199 off on the HR34 online? Not so sure.

If ordered through another vendor I would then still have to fight with D* for credit.

I don't care about limited availability. I'm just a customer. This is acceptable: online system is smart enough to either let me order or preorder and put in the queue. Or, better yet, don't release products until they are ready and available in sufficient quantity. Apple products are almost always available to order/ship IMMEDIATELY on announcement. If not they take preorders.

What limited availability really means is they can't handle the surge of install jobs. Install jobs that are rarely necessary for existing customers.

Why would anyone that reads this forum be ok with paying full $399 for the HR34? Some people get it free. Some get it for $99. etc. So squeaky wheels get the grease and the rest are screwed. Another great way to make your customers happy. As I've said, I don't have any sports or adult packages but I'm premier, a 17 year customer, always auto-pay, perfect credit. Yet I don't deserve an automatic discount to what others are paying?

Again this is why Apple succeeds. One product. One price. In physical store. Online from Apple or anywhere else. Period. Consumer knows what it costs and knows that they aren't getting a raw deal compared to others.

Which does D* have more of now and in the future? Existing customers or new?

As a side - new customers get FREE LIFE HD. That's $120/year for the rest of us. I understand the competitive need for temporary perks but this is just salt in the wound.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

unixguru said:


> So if the HR34 had been...
> 
> What limited availability really means is they can't handle the surge of install jobs.* Install jobs that are rarely necessary for existing customers*.


Sorry but this last part is just plan wrong.
Loading up a system with 5 more tuners that has to be on a SWiM, doesn't fall under "rarely necessary".
You, yourself, needed to change your SWM8 to a SWiM-16.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> "I think" the big difference here is DirecTV is "installer based", as none of this is a stand alone product.


Ok, sure, I'll buy that.

Then D* needs to immediately SHUT OFF every 3rd party seller of dishes, switches, DECA, CCK, splitters, receivers/DVRs, etc.

And to make that workable they have to greatly improve the installer situation. Many may be ok with these hacks mutilating their homes but I'm not. I'm willing to pay extra for a professional installation. In fact I did pay someone to install my dish and wiring. Customer must be able to select level of installer skill/price. They must offer, for additional price, running cables on routes that are not easy (i.e. not along the outside wall).

Their installer situation is just plain inadequate to be a total installer-based service.

I pay for the protection plan. Last summer I had someone here for a problem with intermittent sat trouble on one receiver. He was clearly a cut above an installer. Yet he couldn't figure out what was wrong. Failed IV. Signal would bounce up and down. So he replaced a receiver. Didn't help. Finally got it to pass IV so he left. He claimed it was interference from trees. Which is apparently code for - get me outta here. NO WAY it was trees. Problem returned immediately. I had a WB68 multiswitch.

So then I read about some change in frequencies, power, etc that made it more marginal for longer cable runs (mine was 50' dish->switch and 30' switch->receiver; high grade quad RG6). I put in a SWM myself and it's been trouble-free since.

If they want to use the installer model then they have to do it right.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Sorry but this last part is just plan wrong.
> Loading up a system with 5 more tuners that has to be on a SWiM, doesn't fall under "rarely necessary".
> You, yourself, needed to change your SWM8 to a SWiM-16.


Ok, rare was a poor choice of words.

I was only "2 over". H20 + HR20 + HR24 is 5. HR34 would make 10. But I wanted to return the H20 and will unplug it and return it. That gets it down to 9. Anyone with an HR and an H wouldn't need a SWM change.

If I trusted the HR34 (including working with my external RAID storage) I would have immediately swapped my HR20 for it. No SWM change needed again.

So why is 5 tuners different? What if I had wanted 2 HR24s? I would still be over and it would still have let me order that online, wouldn't it?

The one thing different about the HR34 vs others is 5 vs 2. Which is no different than 2 vs 1 for H.

It's just BS hiding the lack of confidence in the product, inventory, and installer availability. And that last one would be improved if they weren't wasting time on trips like mine.

And BTW, it was my mistake for putting a SWM8 in myself a year ago - I should have gone straight to SWM16. That's more stupidity on D* - they would refuse to upgrade a WB68 with a SWM16 unless it was absolutely needed. When a house is already over 50% of the capacity they should always install the next bigger unit. PEOPLE time is far far far more expensive than hardware.

What makes this all utterly ridiculous is that the HR34 isn't their first rodeo. After 17 years one would think their systems would have evolved much further.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Ok, sure, I'll buy that.


I'm finding it harder and harder to be "in the middle" here, as you seem to be pulling this from an extreme point.

Should the installers be better? sure.

Are there options for what you asked? once again, sure, they're called independents that charge for their work.


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## bnwrx (Dec 29, 2007)

:cuttle: Hope you enjoy your HR34....I love mine..:jumpingja


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Ok, rare was a poor choice of words.
> 
> I was only "2 over". H20 + HR20 + HR24 is 5. HR34 would make 10. But I wanted to return the H20 and will unplug it and return it. That gets it down to 9. Anyone with an HR and an H wouldn't need a SWM change.


While "some" might not need an installer, the numbers/chances of needing one is much greater.

If you've had an install in the past few years, if you had 4 or less tuners and no MRV, you didn't get SWiM.

If you went for the "standard" package, it was 1 DVR + up to 3 receivers, or five tuners.
I fall into this with 2 DVRs, and one receiver, with DECA/MRV, etc.
Now I am looking at maybe getting a 34. 
Since I'm at 5 tuners right now, my choices are to swapped a DVR with the 34, keeping me at 8 tuners, or drop the receiver and use the 34 there, which looks to make more sense, but it puts me at 9 tuners, which means a -16.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

I think my IQ just dropped 5 points after reading the OP's postings here....crazy expectations, please meet reality.....


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

From the OP's first post:

Regarding what he pays Directv - "over $150/mo"

then later in that post, "$1900+/year" - *Fail #1* (I know that $1900 is "over $150/month, but lets be consistent).

Then in post #13, "I still pay in excess of $2000/yr" *Fail #2*. C'mon in the span of 13 posts you go from $1800/yr to $1900/yr to $2000/yr. Pick a number.

Again from the first post, "No doubt an offshore (India probably) call-center sweat shop" - Directv does not have reps in India. *Fail #3*

Thanks for the entertainment.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:


> Why? One way to "get a message" to D*.


No it isn't.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

My favorite part of the first post was when the OP got upset with DirecTV because HE called an old number.


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## Combat Medic (Jul 27, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> The problem is you expected a discount on the HR34, which isn't something DirecTV just hands out to anyone. If you want that discount you have to work for it. Did you expect a discount on your son's iPhone or did you pay the same $199/299 that everyone else pays for it when renewing their contract? If you were ok with paying the same $199/299 for it then why weren't you ok with paying the same $399 for the HR34 that most people are expected to pay?


Ummm....AT&T does automatically give you a discount when you buy on their website. It will tell you how far in your commitment you are and the price will vary based on that.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Combat Medic said:


> Ummm....AT&T does automatically give you a discount when you buy on their website. It will tell you how far in your commitment you are and the price will vary based on that.


I've always been able to get a better price on every cell phone I've ever purchased by walking into the store, as opposed to ordering it online. So, while the website might give a discount, it's usually not the best offer - just like with D*, where you have to call.


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

I just want to point out that I feel "slimed" because some of you log on and it is offering a free HD DVR and I actually WANT another DVR and only have the $99 offer.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Hoosier205 said:


> No it isn't.


So you are saying that Directv doesn't read these forums?


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm finding it harder and harder to be "in the middle" here, as you seem to be pulling this from an extreme point.
> 
> Should the installers be better? sure.
> 
> Are there options for what you asked? once again, sure, they're called independents that charge for their work.


Well, let's see. AFAIK, all installers are independent contractors. Not what you are talking about I'm sure.

Totally independent as in not associated at all with D*... of course. I live in Minneapolis metro and I had a hard time a few years ago finding a competent person to do my dish and wiring work. I paid him - a substantial sum.

So on the one side it's suggested that D* is only intended to be an install-based service. Yet here it is admitted that one has to go outside of normal D* services to get a professional install. If D* wants to be in control and guarantee quality then they need to create another tier of installer and put them under contract. Charge people more to use those services. In my post that you quoted I said I would pay for quality service.

At the very least D* should have a referral network for this kind of higher quality install.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> I think my IQ just dropped 5 points after reading the OP's postings here....crazy expectations, please meet reality.....


You gotta be kidding. So blindly accepting mediocrity is the way to go eh?

I've seen, and worked for some, big companies that had that kind of mentality and they met the market - are out of business now.

This is exactly what a company looks like when management and product managers run amuck. Chaos and misdirected resources.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Since I'm at 5 tuners right now, my choices are to swapped a DVR with the 34, keeping me at 8 tuners,


So a DVR they will upgrade to an HR34? Or do you have to cancel it first?!

Either way it points out the stupidity of their rules. (For the first being allowed to upgrade an HR but not an H.)


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

cariera said:


> From the OP's first post:
> 
> Regarding what he pays Directv - "over $150/mo"
> 
> ...


Thanks for nit-picking the irrelevant.

$172.14/mo or $2,065.68/year + PPV. I don't keep track of every dollar I pay to purchase leased receivers, upgrade infrastructure, etc. For example, I purchased an AM21N to go with this order. I don't keep track of PPVs either.

The point is A LOT OF MONEY.

The very last paragraph of my OP - grief, cost, value not worth it.

The guy was clearly of Indian origin. The noise was very bad. Nearly impossible to understand. I said *probably*. Regardless of how you label it it's a sweat shop.

You must work for D*, probably in management. This is typical deflection from the real issues.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

unixguru said:


> You gotta be kidding. So blindly accepting mediocrity is the way to go eh?
> 
> I've seen, and worked for some, big companies that had that kind of mentality and they met the market - are out of business now.
> 
> This is exactly what a company looks like when management and product managers run amuck. Chaos and misdirected resources.


Isn't that what you did? Settled for medocrity by eventually getting what you wanted?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:



> This is exactly what a company looks like when management and product managers run amuck. Chaos and misdirected resources.


It just makes it all the more hilarious that you are referring to the most successful satellite service provider in history...at a time when they are performing incredibly well in all aspects. If this is your example of a company in crisis...I'd hate to see the alternative. :lol::lol::lol:

This thread started with you referring to installers as hacks, you called the wrong number, and then decided to complain about what you guessed was a sweat-shop call center in India...that was just the beginning.

Are you honestly surprised by the response you received here?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:


> Regardless of how you label it it's a sweat shop.


...based on what information exactly?


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Xsabresx said:


> I just want to point out that I feel "slimed" because some of you log on and it is offering a free HD DVR and I actually WANT another DVR and only have the $99 offer.


Yep. When I added Whole-Home it was taking multiple actions by the agent to get my DVR to accept it. That's probably why he was willing to order me an upgrade to a newer DVR to replace my HR20.

Had I called in and asked for an upgrade they would not have done it - even for money. (But I could take the offer and then cancel my HR20! It's an ADD offer, not an upgrade offer!!!!)

Supposedly one can't control what model you get. You can't be guaranteed to get an HR24. Apparently an HR20 is no longer in the mix of possibilities. But sure could get one of those dogs that is newer and worse than an HR20.

Whatever arcane formula they use has capped you at $99. Some combination of how long you've been a customer, what level of service ($) you are using, payment methods, credit rating, part of the country you are in, the number of floors in your house, how many cats in your block, etc, etc, etc.

This kind of inconsistency does nothing but alienate customers.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Isn't that what you did? Settled for medocrity by eventually getting what you wanted?


I didn't get what I wanted. And it was far too time consuming and frustrating an experience.

Assuming one wants the programming, what choices does one have? D*, Dish, or Cable. Choose the least bad. Kind of like politics. All the choices suck and the market is rigged.

A better way will come along and it won't be long. Then these dinosaurs will pay for their mediocrity.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

unixguru said:


> I didn't get what I wanted. And it was far too time consuming and frustrating an experience.
> 
> Assuming one wants the programming, what choices does one have? D*, Dish, or Cable. Choose the least bad. Kind of like politics. All the choices suck and the market is rigged.
> 
> *A better way will come along and it won't be long. Then these dinosaurs will pay for their mediocrity.*


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

unixguru said:


> Well, let's see. AFAIK, all installers are independent contractors. Not what you are talking about I'm sure.


It seems like this has been shaved very carefully to get your point out.
There are DirecTV installers who work directly for DirecTV.
There are installers who work for HSP, and the HSP contracts with DirecTV.
There are private Home Theater Installers who can install DirecTV, but their market is the higher end customers, so you pay more for their service.

Add to this some flyby night DirecTV retailers, who have some hack slap together their installs, and this should just about cover the range.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> It just makes it all the more hilarious that you are referring to the most successful satellite service provider in history...at a time when they are performing incredibly well in all aspects. If this is your example of a company in crisis...I'd hate to see the alternative. :lol::lol::lol:


Successful compared to what? One other option?! :nono2:

I suppose you will argue I'm wrong on this too... Microsoft used to be what you describe. Now they are a mess and getting their arse kicked. Treating customers like dirt.

That's what incompetence and arrogance buys.



Hoosier205 said:


> This thread started with you referring to installers as hacks, you called the wrong number, and then decided to complain about what you guessed was a sweat-shop call center in India...that was just the beginning.
> 
> Are you honestly surprised by the response you received here?


I started this thread simply telling what happened. Convenient that you list the least important things. Totally missing the forest for the trees. Just more deflection.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:


> I started this thread simply telling what happened. Convenient that you list the least important things. Totally missing the forest for the trees. Just more deflection.


...umm...the things I listed were the first things you listed.


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## HDSC (Jan 9, 2012)

If I was that unhappy with Cable, Sat, Phone, internet, etc., the last thing I would do is signup for 2 more Years! But thats just me.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> unixguru said:
> 
> 
> > *A better way will come along and it won't be long. Then these dinosaurs will pay for their mediocrity.*


Laugh all you want. History backs up my perspective.

Ask Apple competitors how life is these days.

All indications are that Apple is coming for "TV" next. Only a fool would believe D* is safe.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Just a couple of things.

a: You're working outside of the system so you shouldn't get upset that it's not going to be what you want. If you want to do everything yourself then order and install everything yourself.
b: Most of the information you post here is old information that is no longer correct. You're upset because you make assumptions rather than attempt to find out what is actually real at this point
c: Comparing different companies that aren't even in the same business to DIRECTV is not a relevant comparison.

So my suggestion is stop calling DIRECTV and just order and pay for someone to install everything yourself. Then you can have flowers and rainbows since you're in control which is ultimately what you really hate giving up.


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## bigglebowski (Jul 27, 2010)

unixguru said:


> Assuming one wants the programming, what choices does one have? D*, Dish, or Cable. Choose the least bad. Kind of like politics. All the choices suck and the market is rigged.


After skimming this thread this was my thought the whole time, lower your expectations. Its like when I hear somebody complaining that the food they got from a fast food drive through wasnt good. My thought is WHY did you EXPECT any thing but mediocre service.

Also I have to say that OP is probably no where near the norm as a cable/sat customer. Your expertise is well above the average customer, you also know that either do it yourself so you get it your way or pay for a private contractor who will provide you the higher level of service that you desire. If you just know that they are going to send a nuck dragger to your home than do the job yourself.

Its like everything else out there in terms of service, as long as there are humans doing the work there will be variances to the degree of which a job gets done well.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

HDSC said:


> If I was that unhappy with Cable, Sat, Phone, internet, etc., the last thing I would do is signup for 2 more Years! But thats just me.


+1 :lol::lol::lol: Isn't it funny when someone posts to rant and rave about how unhappy they are...and then we find out they signed up for two more years! Hilarious!


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:


> Laugh all you want. History backs up my perspective.
> 
> Ask Apple competitors how life is these days.
> 
> All indications are that Apple is coming for "TV" next. Only a fool would believe D* is safe.


...what? Apple already has an Apple TV. An actual Apple television would be the combination of a display, the Apple TV device functions, and iOS features...probably with a hefty price tag and display PQ that cannot match the best performers. How exactly does that threaten DirecTV anymore than the current streaming capabilities of repetitively cheap Apple TV? How would that be more of threat than all the other streaming devices on the market today? I'm not following the connection you are trying to make between a potential Apple TV display and DirecTV's demise. 

Or are you talking about something else related to Apple and the TV industry? Content rather than equipment? ...still not sure what you think they have up their sleeve that poses a larger threat to DirecTV than other companies that have been doing so for longer. Between Amazon, Hulu, Vudu, Blockbuster, HBO Go, Showtime Anytime, Max Go, WatchESPN, various sports leagues that stream to devices...what exactly is the content that Apple can push exclusively?


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

HDSC said:


> If I was that unhappy with Cable, Sat, Phone, internet, etc., the last thing I would do is signup for 2 more Years! But thats just me.


I'd love another choice. I like the PROGRAMMING I view and the FEATURES of DVRs. We watch some of the HBO/SHO series - can't get those without subscription to sat or cable or wait a year or more for streaming/Blu-Ray. What choice is there beyond staying with the least objectionable?

Phone I fixed - OOMA. I highly recommended it. Seriously.

What choice for internet? DSL or cable or sat. Sat is terrible. DSL is slower/cheaper here. So I pay more for speed from cable. What other choice for speed?

Maybe people should not be unhappy that there isn't a cure for cancer or any other disease. Maybe they should just refuse any treatment because it isn't perfect. That way no company would have to invest any money in improving treatments or, forbid, actually solving the problem entirely... Maybe the gov shouldn't repair old bridges... Maybe our schools shouldn't bother trying to increase the quality of graduates... Heck, why don't sat and cable companies all get together and agree not to add any more improvements to their boxes... that will shut up those pesky whining customers!


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Shades228 said:


> b: Most of the information you post here is old information that is no longer correct. You're upset because you make assumptions rather than attempt to find out what is actually real at this point


Sure. Call 1 was Tuesday; call 2 was today. Yep, old info and no longer correct.

And you're an employee of D*.

Sums it up doesn't it?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> ...what? Apple already has an Apple TV. An actual Apple television would be the combination of a display, the Apple TV device functions, and iOS features...probably with a hefty price tag and display PQ that cannot match the best performers. How exactly does that threaten DirecTV anymore than the current streaming capabilities of repetitively cheap Apple TV? How would that be more of threat than all the other streaming devices on the market today? I'm not following the connection you are trying to make between a potential Apple TV display and DirecTV's demise.
> 
> Or are you talking about something else related to Apple and the TV industry? Content rather than equipment? ...still not sure what you think they have up their sleeve that poses a larger threat to DirecTV than other companies that have been doing so for longer. Between Amazon, Hulu, Vudu, Blockbuster, HBO Go, Showtime Anytime, Max Go, WatchESPN, various sports leagues that stream to devices...what exactly is the content that Apple can push exclusively?


It's Apple you should know that Apple will reinvent shows, broadcast methods, and currency so that pay tv goes away. At least that was the pitch back when Apple TV came out back in 2006. Can't you see how they run the industry now? If that was true however this thread wouldn't exist would it.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

bigglebowski said:


> After skimming this thread this was my thought the whole time, lower your expectations. Its like when I hear somebody complaining that the food they got from a fast food drive through wasnt good. My thought is WHY did you EXPECT any thing but mediocre service.
> 
> Also I have to say that OP is probably no where near the norm as a cable/sat customer. Your expertise is well above the average customer, you also know that either do it yourself so you get it your way or pay for a private contractor who will provide you the higher level of service that you desire. If you just know that they are going to send a nuck dragger to your home than do the job yourself.
> 
> Its like everything else out there in terms of service, as long as there are humans doing the work there will be variances to the degree of which a job gets done well.


Agree with you mostly.

*IF* I could have gotten the HR34 for the same price WITHOUT having to play games on the phone with D* I would have.

But they won't allow it. Pay the full ride or play the games.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> +1 :lol::lol::lol: Isn't it funny when someone posts to rant and rave about how unhappy they are...and then we find out they signed up for two more years! Hilarious!


You just figured that out?

This must be one of those more useful posts that I hear about.


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## MrShowtime (Apr 8, 2009)

I'll post the cliff notes of the original post:

"D* didn't kiss my butt and give me what I wanted, they only gave me $200 off of a $399 product and not the whole $399. They provide me with a service and I pay my bill every month, and for that I deserve free stuff. They didn't recognize my self installed products, and GASP! they changed a 3 year old phone number without notifying me!. Oh yeah, back on the money side, they also made me jump through hoops to get the $200 of and didnt just immediately give it to me, therefore they are slimy???"


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:


> You just figured that out?
> 
> This must be one of those more useful posts that I hear about.


...what? (I feel like I am having to say that a lot) Figured what out? I said that it is funny when folks post about how unhappy they are, and then say they extended their commitment. What exactly is it that implied something had been figured out?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

MrShowtime said:


> I'll post the cliff notes of the original post:
> 
> "D* didn't kiss my butt and give me what I wanted, they only gave me $200 off of a $399 product and not the whole $399. They provide me with a service and I pay my bill every month, and for that I deserve free stuff. They didn't recognize my self installed products, and GASP! they changed a 3 year old phone number without notifying me!. Oh yeah, back on the money side, they also made me jump through hoops to get the $200 of and didnt just immediately give it to me, therefore they are slimy???"


Something about Indians, Hispanics, and sweat-shops as well.


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## HDSC (Jan 9, 2012)

unixguru said:


> I'd love another choice. I like the PROGRAMMING I view and the FEATURES of DVRs. We watch some of the HBO/SHO series - can't get those without subscription to sat or cable or wait a year or more for streaming/Blu-Ray. What choice is there beyond staying with the least objectionable?
> 
> Phone I fixed - OOMA. I highly recommended it. Seriously.
> 
> ...


While you argue with yourself and justify adding a new 2 year commitment. You did have other options. You could have purchased your own unit from various venues such as the classifieds here and/or searched ebay, which would not require an extended contract.

Side note: You need to get on meds if your equating cancer and directv issues. Thats just sick!


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> ...what? Apple already has an Apple TV. An actual Apple television would be the combination of a display, the Apple TV device functions, and iOS features...probably with a hefty price tag and display PQ that cannot match the best performers. How exactly does that threaten DirecTV anymore than the current streaming capabilities of repetitively cheap Apple TV? How would that be more of threat than all the other streaming devices on the market today? I'm not following the connection you are trying to make between a potential Apple TV display and DirecTV's demise.
> 
> Or are you talking about something else related to Apple and the TV industry? Content rather than equipment? ...still not sure what you think they have up their sleeve that poses a larger threat to DirecTV than other companies that have been doing so for longer. Between Amazon, Hulu, Vudu, Blockbuster, HBO Go, Showtime Anytime, Max Go, WatchESPN, various sports leagues that stream to devices...what exactly is the content that Apple can push exclusively?


I'm not talking about the Apple TV in its current form.

In the book about Jobs he told the writer that he had finally "cracked" the "TV" (I use quotes because I don't mean just the video display). AppleTV had already been shipping for a long time. That is NOT what he was referring to.

If it's just an integrated display then it would be a joke. Apple rarely does jokes.

They need a PVR, not just a streamer. The Channel Master thing is a great concept. Off air tuner, PVR, Vudu, etc.

I don't know a lot about all the content you mention. I do know that HBO requires an existing service on sat or cable. Lots of streamers have nothing but old junk. Vudu looks very promising and would directly replace D* Cinema. I believe iTunes also has the same stuff and price.

What 1 company has the clout to get content providers to give them access to current programming? Ask the record labels. Ask the book companies.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Are you going to respond to this, or no?



unixguru said:


> Regardless of how you label it it's a sweat shop.





Hoosier205 said:


> ...based on what information exactly?


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> Something about Indians, Hispanics, and sweat-shops as well.


Yep, that was the most important part of what I said.

Shame that one can't just present the facts as they are. Not PC I know. Two accents that can be unrecognizable. I should have just said unrecognizable accent. Of course all readers would know what I experienced. But it would be more PC that way.

And somehow that changes the validity of the crappy service.


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## bigglebowski (Jul 27, 2010)

So all providers suck, apple will surely do it better...

What is your thought about the networks and channels that actually create the content. They are more responsible than anybody about the current state of affairs for the industry to be the way it is. Directv's equipment is pretty much worthless without all the channels out there. I have no doubt the channels would not like it if the only way to sell shows would be on what people bought like ppv.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:


> Ask the book companies.


The DOJ is suing Apple for an alleged e-book price fixing scheme under Steve Jobs. Probably not going to want to go to them for advise on that...


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

unixguru said:


> Yep, that was the most important part of what I said.
> 
> Shame that one can't just present the facts as they are. Not PC I know. Two accents that can be unrecognizable. I should have just said unrecognizable accent. Of course all readers would know what I experienced. But it would be more PC that way.
> 
> And somehow that changes the validity of the crappy service.


Look, you've accused others of deflecting. You cannot very well do that and then avoid answering for your own statements.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

By the way, is this thread sponsored by Apple? If not...they are missing out. Apparently every sat and cable co. in the country will fall prey to a product Apple hasn't even produced.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Think this thread may have run its course.
The OP had a *****/vent, which is fine here.
The OP isn't going to have their mind changed by any posts, since this isn't a "help me" thread.

Time to move on and just let this fade on to page two.


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## Alebob911 (Mar 22, 2007)

I think its time for the OP to just chill out and enjoy watching his DIRECTV! I would like to know why people feel they are owed something just because they have been a customer for x amount of years and pay their bill on time?!! Why do those 2 items come up regularly in these rant/vent threads? Who cares you pay your bill on time and have been a customer for ever. All that means to me is that you have paid for the services that DIRECTV has delivered to your home. Thats it nothing more nothing less. It doesn't entitle you to get everything you want for free. Like others have stated, you got a pretty good deal and you really should take a look in the mirror and find out why you get so upset over such trivial stuff, like TV service. Enjoy you HR34, the same unit that many people including some DBStalkers who have worked hard behind the scenes trying to make the 34 the best HDDVR out on the market!


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

HDSC said:


> While you argue with yourself and justify adding a new 2 year commitment. You did have other options. You could have purchased your own unit from various venues such as the classifieds here and/or searched ebay, which would not require an extended contract.
> 
> Side note: You need to get on meds if your equating cancer and directv issues. Thats just sick!


This is one class of devices I'll pass on the used route.

In the unlikely event that I am able to (due to alternative) want out before the 2 years are up I have to pay D* up to $480. Prorated that's $240 after a year. $120 after 18 months...

I simply decided that it will be more than a year before a viable alternative is available. The discount was worth pursuing.

I don't see how that should make me happy or ensure a longer relationship with D*.

There is a whole spectrum of things where excuses don't fly. A shocking one got your attention. Mediocrity is an insidious disease. Embrace it and it does nothing but grow. Regardless of your threshold, at some point it will matter to every person.


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## unixguru (Jul 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Think this thread may have run its course.
> The OP had a *****/vent, which is fine here.
> The OP isn't going to have their mind changed by any posts, since this isn't a "help me" thread.
> 
> Time to move on and just let this fade on to page two.


I'm done.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

OK this is going nowhere. It's closed...for now.

Mike


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