# DIRECTV guy coming here with an olive branch



## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Hey guys, I'm hoping someone here can help. Some of the DIRECTV guys and I have started putting together a side by side comparison of DIRECTV HD DVRs and thought it would be good to expand it to Dish. Milominderbinder2 started filling in some of the stuff but you guys here are the experts. If anything it'll show each of us from the other side(s) what the other DVRs are doing.

I don't want this to become an us vs. them. This is totally a learning excercise. I'm sure most of the regulars here are into the guts just like the D* folks. Maybe when we're all said and done we could post this in both forums to educate the masses.

Some of the items may not apply like the active features or SWM. I don't know as I don't know Dish. Any help you guys give will be appreciated.

Thanks!

Edit: Okay, I can only post the attachment once... see thread here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=95242


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

E*'s information:
622 http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/receiver/622.shtml
722 http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/techportal/content/tech/receiver/722.shtml

Those pages will answer the basic dimensions questions ... similar pages are available for discontinued HD DVRs if you want to chart them.

For the 622 and 722 ...
*OTA* Yes - Including EPG for most OTAs in most markets
*OTA Scanning* Yes
*Connections From Multiswitch* One from DishProPlus switch (separator behind receiver)
*Number of Tuners* Two
*SWM (Option to use 1 cable)* No - Just one coax from Multiswitch to each receiver. E* does not have a multidrop system similar to D*'s SWM.
*Dolby Digital 5.1* Yes
*Video Output* TV1: RF, Composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI; TV2: RF, Composite
*All Outputs Active at Same Time* Yes (unless RF disabled in menus)
*USB* Yes - Active for PocketDish and External Storage
*Ethernet* Yes - Active for receiver status (additional function coming soon)
*eSATA (external hard drive) Port* No
*Expandable* Yes - Unlimited number of individual USB drives from 40GB to 750GB can be added, one at a time, via USB 2.0. This does not disrupt timers or content on the main drive. Content can be moved to external drive then moved back or played directly from external drive.
*Phone Connection Required* No - But there is a $5 charge if no phone or ethernet connection (per receiver).
*Remote Control* TV1 IR, TV2 UHF ... TV1 can be controlled by a UHF remote (available separately)

*Hours of Programming* (as stated by E*)
*Standard Definition* 200 Hrs 622 / 350 Hrs 722
*High Definition (MPEG-2)* 30 Hrs 622 / 55 Hrs 722
*High Definition (MPEG-4)* E* does not state MPEG2 vs MPEG4
Note: Actual hours vary depending on source of programming.

Upgrades: Satellite Only, No Phone Required for Upgrades

Active Features are programming options, not a function of the receiver.
I'm going to generally ignore such _programming_ comparisons.

*Number of NATIONAL HD Channels that can be recorded* ALL on system
*Local HD Channels by Satellite* Yes - Select Markets
*Local Sub-Channels by Satellite* Yes - Select Markets and Channels

Other select answers:
*Channel Buffer* Yes - Two one hour buffers
*Caller ID On Screen* Yes
*Closed Captioning* Yes
*Digital Audio* Optical / Coax on TV1
*Edit Season Pass / Series Links* DISHPass ... can be edited any time
*Guide Style* Grid ... three different resolutions plus choice of partial or full screen
*Interactive Channels* Yes, including CNN and TWC
*Manual (Auto) Record* Yes.
*Media Share from PC - Pictures* No - USB camera connection working
*Mini Guide* Yes - Browse Banner
*Parental Lock* Yes
*Picture In Guide* Optional
*Search - Wishlist* Yes - DISHPass
*Search/Autorecord - Title* Yes
*Search/Autorecord - Person* Yes (if in description)
*Search/Autorecord - Keyword* Yes (if in description)
*Showcases* Not a receiver feature
*Suggestions (Thumbs)* Coming to TVGuide Channel
*Video On Demand* Yes ... HD VOD planned for 722

*Fast Forward* 4 speeds
*Rewind* 4 speeds
*Skip Back* 10 seconds
*Skip to Tick* No
*Commercial Jump* 30 second skip standard
*One Button Recording* Yes (2nd button confirms) - Can rewind and record buffer to DVR


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Awesome info. Thanks, James!


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

Are there any features that the Dish products have that the HR20 does not have.

For instance the PIP, output two different programs to two different TVs at once, etc.

Also the DISH guide is customizable to allow 6 different versions up to 3 hours on screen at one time? With 10 channels?

- Craig


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Are there any features that the Dish products have that the HR20 does not have.
> 
> For instance the PIP, output two different programs to two different TVs at once, etc.
> 
> ...


Biggest to me is, dual-live independently pause-able buffers, 1 hr per tuner.

7 channels with live TV inset active
9 channels without live TV inset active
2 1/2 hrs: 1:00-2:00, 2:00-3:00, 3:00-3:30.
Guide display is global to all guide lists, default and customized.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Are there any features that the Dish products have that the HR20 does not have.
> 
> For instance the PIP, output two different programs to two different TVs at once, etc.
> 
> Also the DISH guide is customizable to allow 6 different versions up to 3 hours on screen at one time? With 10 channels?


The guide is basically three versions: Standard is 90 minutes, Enhanced is one hour (large print) and Extended is three hours.
If you have the picture in guide you get 5, 4 or 6 1/2 channel lines displayed (respectively).
Without picture in guide you get 7, 6 or 9 channel lines displayed.

Yes, the 622 and 722 have a "single mode" with PIP (two different size boxes with 9 screen positions for the boxes plus a side by side display). They also have a "dual mode" where TV2 is independent from TV1 and one can watch any satellite channel, including HD channels, on a remote SD set fed via RF on a UHF channel or a composite feed. TV1 output is also available on the RF feed (if you enable it).

One can also record three channels at once ... two from the satellite (any two channels, HD or SD, on either receiver) and a third channel OTA. Plus while doing this triple recording each set (or two PIP windows) can view previously recorded events (although if you go back to a single window on PIP one event will stop).

The 622 and 722 also has an informative screen saver that gives you tips on how to use your receiver plus lists of current PPV and VOD offerings. Plus an interactive channel (100) that shows six popular networks (currently CNN, ESPN, TNT, FXNWS, TWC, FOOD) and links to other content (customer service, CNN Interactive News/Weather/Bloomberg Interactive/Horoscope, Shopping including the last items on HSN, Sports including TVG betting and fantasy sports, Games and Entertainment guides). (The interactive TV Guide channel gives recommendations and listings.)

Occasionally the interactive mosaic is taken over for special events such as the X-Games. E* does not have multiple mosaic channels. That seems to be more of an issue of channel availability than receiver function. The 622 and 722 are obviously capable of running a mosaic channel.

The interactive CNN and TWC offerings can also be accessed directly from their normal channels (TWC is testing, but the tests are running often).


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

James,

Thank you so much for yet more detailed notes!

Are their other things in your software that we would like?

For instance, when you do a search can you use AND, OR, or NOT?

If you or anyone wants to do us a huge favor, would you look at our Wish List Survey and see if any of our requests are already done in the 622?

I must say I had no idea everything the 622 could do.

- Craig


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## allargon (May 3, 2007)

James gave an excellent features list.

A couple of other things to add:

Video out also includes UHF out for wireless reception.

USB port also enables transferring of photos (not sure about music) to the DVR hard drive from a thumb drive. The DVR can show a slideshow on the TV as a result.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

allargon said:


> James gave an excellent features list.
> 
> A couple of other things to add:
> 
> ...


The USB thumb drive features are cool and I think on our Wish List.

Would you take a look at the HR20 Wish List Survey and see if there are any of our other requests that you already have in you 622/722?

- Craig


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## isuzudave (Sep 29, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> The USB thumb drive features are cool and I think on our Wish List.
> 
> Would you take a look at the HR20 Wish List Survey and see if there are any of our other requests that you already have in you 622/722?
> 
> - Craig


The link to your "wish list survey" does not work.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> James,
> For instance, when you do a search can you use AND, OR, or NOT?


Searching does not support AND, NOT, OR type of search arguments. It allows the user to search on both Title and the shows description, but only one type can be searched on at a given time. Also can search for exact match.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

A few more questions.... 

Favorite Channels - Can you set up a list on the 622/722?
HD Channels - One HD package or do you need HBO, for example, to get HBO HD?
Can you do bulk deletes (like erase an entire folder)?
Can the playlist (list of recordings) be sorted?
Can the DVR support overlap recording (If two shows are on the same channel and they are overlapped, will it use one tuner to record them)?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

tfederov said:


> A few more questions....
> 
> Favorite Channels - Can you set up a list on the 622/722?
> HD Channels - One HD package or do you need HBO, for example, to get HBO HD?
> ...


Yes you can create favorites. I believe you can do 4 lists. You also get a predefined one for all HD and one for all the channels you sub to.

HD Channels - Not one package.

Yes you can do bulk delete.

Yes your play list can be sorted a number of different ways if groups are not enabled. If groups are enabled you can only sort alphabetically.

Can the DVR support overlap... Yes it can I believe, but I am not sure about that one. I get confused but I believe it will trim the first show.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

isuzudave said:


> The link to your "wish list survey" does not work.


Sorry,

Try it this way:

http://www.sizethis.com/index.php?module=survey&survey=28

I would love to know how many of our wish list reuests you already do...

- Craig


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> I would love to know how many of our wish list reuests you already do...- Craig


Ability to watch recordings when there's no satellite signal.

Yup Can watch OTA and recordings from HD or External HD​"Display only the channels that are in your current subscription package." HR20 manual, p.33. SEARCH results should not include channels a user is unable to record.

Yup one fixed favorites menu is "All Subscribed"

​Ignore leading articles (A, An, The) when alphabetically sorting MY PLAYLIST.  
Although you can change a title in play list no boolean available.

​Ability to manually tune to an available over-the-air channel not in the GUIDE. Yup just key in the channel number
​When re-ordering a show in the Prioritizer, CHAN UP/CHAN DOWN should move it one full page at a time.
The remote has page up / down buttons but the arrow moves it one per toggle

​Cache the OTA information so that it can be quickly discovered after a reset.  Yes

​When selecting PRIORITIZER from within a show's SERIES LINK set-up, the cursor should already be positioned at that show, instead of always pointing to the top of the list. 
Dunno

​After SEARCH by title, limit final search results to the episodes on the selected channel only!  Never tried sorry

Hope this partial response helps.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

kckucera,

This is like gold!

Please keep going!

- Craig


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Also check the EKB comparison charts:
Current receivers 622, 942 (missing the newest 722)
Discontinued receivers 921
HD receiver features


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

Craig here is some more, I am working top down so if anyone wants bottom up they can meet me in the middle. 
I misspoke about search you can either search exact title or partial so you can effectively skip articles preceeding a title.

1. CRUISE CONTROLS
SKIP-TO-TICK should trigger by pressing ADVANCE or REPLAY during FF or REW, instead of the current "PRESS & HOLD" method. 
Several speeds of FF and REW on 622 ranging from 2x to 300x single button push no need to hold pause or stop to end. 

Use RED & GREEN buttons (or LEFT & RIGHT arrows) to jump to the START or END of a recording or the live buffer, instead of the current "PRESS & HOLD" method. You can FF or RW or skip in 30 sec intervals no skip to start or end without going to DVR panel 

During PAUSE, press & hold FF or REW to continuously move one frame at a time.
Must press (skip) FF or REW for each single frame advance but can also press FWD for 1/5th and 1/4th speed continuous.

At the Delete/Don't Delete pop-up at the end of recording, RW and REPLAY should still function.
No Delete pop up, rather it comes to a stop for a period allowing you to select which way you want to go 

Ability to vary SLOW MOTION speed using the FF/REW buttons. 
As above 1/5th and 1/4th plus higher speeds

User-selectable REPLAY button time. (E.g., "Default, or 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 seconds)
Not selectable fixed at 30 sec.

Move SLOW MOTION activation to the PAUSE button. 1st press PAUSE, 2nd press SLO-MO
Nope toggle pause or press play to un-pause must use ff or fwd.to skip or ff..

Ability to jump ahead or back "NN" minutes by pressing "NN" plus FF or REW. 
Nope not here either

Enable Cruise Control functions (FF, REW, etc.) on the XM music channels and My Music.
Yes if recorded, if live only RW

OPTION to use the PLAY key for PLAY/PAUSE and the PAUSE key for SLOW MOTION.
As above


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

2. USER INTERFACE
OPTION to display more GRID GUIDE data. 
662 has 6 options 3 with video and 3 full screen data at varying font sizes.

Show program description in the "To Do List", instead of a static message.
Just titles for us too, must click on title to get INFO

Display full channel name or info in the right side panel when editing a Custom channel list.
That would be a good addition fo Dish Too, we get channel number and Station ID but not full name.

OPTION to sort shows within PLAYLIST folders by date, although the main list is sorted differently. 
Sort Options, are Group (folders alpha numeric only), Alpha Numeric no folders, DVR date, Movies, Series, Sports, by DVR Length and Protected

Always return to most recently accessed position on MY PLAYLIST when using LIST.
If playing back a recording it always highlights that and places it near but not necessarily at the top. 

Wrap the cursor to the bottom or top when reaching the top or bottom of a list or menu pane.
No cursor wrap here either

OPTION to display a small channel logo in MY PLAYLIST.
Logo for HD none for SD no channel logo

OPTION to turn off PICTURE IN GUIDE/LIST/SETUP, to prevent "spoilers". 
Have no idea what that is 

Ability to cycle through the CUSTOM channel lists while in GUIDE or MINI-GUIDE. 
Yes you can have several custom guides(I have 4 additional) in addition to fixed All Channels, All Subscribed, All HD, 

EXIT should clear on-screen graphics during playback, but never EXIT to Live TV.
622 has both a live tv and a cancel button, assuming you hit right button it will clear graphics but not return you to live.

Ability to toggle channel banner between full width and only channel/logo/time/date
Only full banner with info about which tuner, single or dual mode, time, channel, rec or not, time left to play, rating, HD/SD. Aspect ratio stays on for 30 sec auto off

OPTION to reduce the size and/or brightness of the PROGRESS BAR.
Nope fixed too

In the Guide, the FF and REW buttons should move 1 screen sideways.
Page up down does that, left right arrow moves one prog at time, FF moves full day ahead same time.

Ability to designate a show as 'watched' or 'unwatched', regardless of its playback status.
N/A

OPTION for TiVo-style GUIDE list (text-only, no GRID). \
6 grid options no text only.

OPTION to disable grouping of shows on MY PLAYLIST.
Yes can use groups (folders) or not

Ability to change color schemes or themes.
Nope fixed

MENU should remember the last location you accessed - it should not always start on MY PLAYLIST.
Menu on 622 takes you to setup areas

Mini-guide should launch by simply pressing the UP or DOWN arrow.
Up Down Arrow moves channel up down


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

3. EASE OF USE

OPTION to do an "erase all" of Caller ID results.
Yes 

Satellite signal strength test should default to the sat/transponder for the current channel
Select by Sat and Transponder not channel.

Ability to review recently expired program information in the Guide. 
N/A forward looking only 

Show Delete/Don't Delete popup when pressing EXIT in the last few minutes of a recording.
N/A but at bitter end of recording drops you to choice menu “Live TV, Start Over, Delete, Protect, Done”

A quick way to toggle Closed Captions On/Off. 
Requires 4 key strokes Menu 881

Undelete, or the ability to allow user acccess to a "recycle bin" to restore a recording.
No would nice though especially for archival external HDD

FORMAT button should bring up a list of formats to choose from, rather than cycling through them.
Cycle toggle not drop down

Menu OPTION to set the front panel blue light brightness levels for all LEDs.
N/A

Provide numeric hot links in setup menus for faster menu navigation.
All Menus numerically hot linked or can use drop down 

OPTION to disable/enable Caller ID & ViiV notifications separately
Don’t know

Ability to press DASH-DASH in the GUIDE to remove a channel from the active Custom channels list.
Check box on or off in Favorites menu

Driver support for "N" USB wireless devices to more easily integrate wireless networking 
802.11 A, B, N, G for wireless interconnect either hardwire or game adapter

OPTION to automatically output SD programs with "Letterbox" in their program description in CROP format on 16:9 displays. Otherwise, use the user-default format.
SD automatically letterboxed in 16.9 then can be stretched, partial zoom, full zoom, or grey bars instead of black.


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

Ability to edit all shows in the Prioritizer, even when there are none upcoming, page 28. 
Only those visible in schedule can be selected to show skipped or not.

SERIES LINK recording options as follows: RECORD: [First Run/Repeat/Both]; KEEP AT MOST: [1/2/3/4/5/10/ALL]; WHEN LIMIT REACHED: [Delete Oldest/Stop Recording]; AUTODELETE WHEN DISK FULL?: [Yes/No] 
662 does automatic conflict resolution by priority list set by user for all.
I
con in GUIDE if a particular program is already on MY PLAYLIST or the TO DO LIST.
Yes shows skipped show icon and also if recording which tuner, 1, 2, or OTA with special logos.

Ability to set manual recordings for a date well into the future rather than a week or so.
Yes by Name based recording or via Dish Pass (Name based is channel specific Dish Pass all channels all events unless modified for New etc)
I
ncrease the maximum number of SERIES LINKS up from the current 50.
Don't know what a series link is.

Automatically pad a recording's start and/or stop time by one minute when it won't conflict. 
Done automatically, or you can manually set up to 60 min early or late System default can also be set that way mine is 1 early 2 late unless conflict.

OPTION to key in the channel number directly when setting up a manual recording.
Yes or by check box or if on the channel already.

Light amber LED for 1 recording and red LED for 2 recordings. 
Logo for tuner, I, 2, or OTA displayed when REC.

Ability to add padding to a currently recorded show with a single button. 
Option 3 key strokes.

Negative padding OPTION. The ability to schedule a recording to start late or end early by "N" minutes.
Yes as part of the timer Option up to 60 early, 60 late

OPTION to select "time-of-day" and/or "day-of-week" window for when a SERIES LINK episode may be recorded.
Yes, All episodes, New episodes, Once, Weekly, Daily M-F or Manual or Dish Pass

Include a "Keep At Most" option for all manual recordings. 
No idea what this is.

Send a Calls & Msgs and/or e-mail alert when a scheduling conflict arises. 
Just screen message when trying to schedule then automatically resolves by user set priority for events involved, skips low priorty conflict sets to new time if repeated within 9 day horizon.


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

Craig, the following should be all of it to the best of my ability since I dont know the recent D* device you will need to translate. Please send us all the link to the comparision when you get it up. Will be interested to see. Kuch

5. SEARCH/AUTORECORD

Store more program description INFO, to enable more detailed SEARCHES and provide more show details.
Info pretty complete including type, actors, years, first aired etc. Search function allowed by Theme (Movie, Rating, Sprorts, News, Business, Family Kids, education, series, specials, music arts, religious) Each theme then has about 15 sub themes so sports has all major sporting activities named individually, or By History (previous search), and / or by keyword which can be an addition or solo so “Richard Dean Anderson” will show all Stargate SGI, McGyvers, and any movies he was in. 

Allow editing of the "Channels I Get" list, similar to the way the OFF-AIR channel list is editable. 
All Subscribed is fixed, but you have 4 others to customize with hundreds of entries each if desired. 

An AUTORECORD option for TITLE searches, as described in the manual on pp.20 .
Presume this is Name Based recording 622 does Name based on a single channel by All, All New, Once, Daily, Weekly, M-F, Manual, or Dish Pass (all channels)

Search for “just what you want to watch” by allowing SEARCHES or AUTORECORDS to be filtered by CUSTOM channel lists. HR20 manual, p.31. 
Yes

SEARCH/AUTORECORD should allow the use of multiple keywords, wildcards and BOOLEAN (AND/OR/NOT) logic.
Multiiple words yes, Wildcards by ommision yes, partial words yes, Boolean no. 

When inputting SEARCH terms, OPTION to use REW as backspace, FF as space, and STOP as clear.
622 uses arrows all directions for keyboard movement with text wrap. 

Add an INSERT function to SEARCH term input, and assign CLR|SPC|INS|DEL shortcuts to the R|G|Y|B remote buttons.
Way complex lol nope

Add "CATEGORY" as a new top-level search type on the SEARCH Menu.
Yes already by category or Theme.


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

OMG!

It's the mother load!

Thank you!

- Craig


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes.. most excellent work kckucera.. Really glad to see this collaboration effort and it is an excellent example of the community providing valuable information. 

Kudos Guys!


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm going to post the doc (now in version 12  ) in the OP and have you guys go at it. I want to keep this high level if possible so anything I have wrong, let me know. Right now the biggest question mark is the max number of DISHPasses you can have.

Tony


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

tfederov said:


> Right now the biggest question mark is the max number of DISHPasses you can have.


96 timers or passes on the 942 and 622/722. There is another limit of 576 events (288 on the 942) generated by those timers/events. Whenever either limit is reached, no more can be added.

The older 921 has 64 timers but no passes as it never got name-based recording.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks! Updated version 12c is now posted!


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## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

A couple of dumb quesitons from a DIRECTV guy...

Tony's comparison has really made me aware of the DISH products.

Is the ViP722 a TiVo product? 

Is any DISH product run TiVo software?

It would appear that none are TiVo products...

So...

The 622/722 seem to have every key feature of the old TiVos and then so much more.

How has DISH been able to include every key feature of TiVo? 

- Craig


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> It would appear that none are TiVo products...
> 
> So...
> 
> ...


They pay their lawyers a lot of money!


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> A couple of dumb quesitons from a DIRECTV guy...
> 
> Tony's comparison has really made me aware of the DISH products. Is the ViP722 a TiVo product? Is any DISH product run TiVo software? It would appear that none are TiVo products...The 622/722 seem to have every key feature of the old TiVos and then so much more. How has DISH been able to include every key feature of TiVo? - Craig


Dish vociferously denies that they have any Tivo software (they are in litigation actually) and although look and feel are different, I believe them to be very feature rich an has some feature overlap with Direct and Tivo. TIVO would love to make sure no-one but them is in the PVR biz but think that will not be. Some things in the Dish DVR appear to be better thought, out others not so much, as you would expect. Certainly not a chinese copy (real R&D not Receive and Duplicate). While it does appear that Dish has many features still on Direct wish list there are some nice things like single button record and folder management that Direct is ahead with. Ultimately I think signal quality, decoding stability, ease of use and niche programming will distinquish competators. If FIOS services become ubiquitos it will give both sat and cable companies a run. TIVO as an independant will benefit most if FIOS deploys because FIOS hardware is lame compared to even cable much less D* and E*. Hope this helps.


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## kckucera (Aug 1, 2005)

ChuckA said:


> They pay their lawyers a lot of money!


Chuck,
Although I am sure their legal bills are astronomical this issue of Intellectual property theft is a complex area. I have been president of several software companies and I can tell you from experience patent defense is a mess here in the US. Euro patents are based on merit not just date and as such are much easier to defend.

You do not have to reverse engineer software to build a comparable feature, there are numerous ways to implement a feature group without infringement. Convincing a jury with the IQ of a turnip of that though is another problem. "Gee it looks the same it must be the same." DUH

I have been on both sides of that issue and can say from experience proving you did not copy, violate a broad patent, combined with the "look and feel" fuzzyness makes for a difficult time. I got in the habit in the early 80s of putting in code that looked innocent and functional but was actually a signature, we caught out a few theives that way. No such issue surfaced with E v. Tivo so the appeals process will be long, complex and hopefully in front of a group of judges who understand technology.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The "single button record" on the 622 is only a multiple press because it contains additional options. Record remainder of event is only the beginning. One can also record the entire event (if they were tuned to the channel at the beginning of the show) or set a timer for that event in the future.

One button is cool ... but there is more to life than one button!


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

kckucera said:


> Chuck,
> Although I am sure their legal bills are astronomical this issue of Intellectual property theft is a complex area.


Look, you don't have to lecture me about it. I am also the president of a software company and have spent weeks in a court room on copyright issues and years in preparation. It is very complex and can waste millions of $$ on lawyer's fees and court costs. Judges DO NOT understand the technology. Let's just say I am not a fan of our legal system, but I guess that is off topic for this forum. So, lets drop the legal discussion.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Agreed ... :backtotop


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## Bobby Bearcat (Jan 8, 2003)

ChuckA said:


> Look, you don't have to lecture me about it. I am also the president of a software company and have spent weeks in a court room on copyright issues and years in preparation. It is very complex and can waste millions of $$ on lawyer's fees and court costs. Judges DO NOT understand the technology. Let's just say I am not a fan of our legal system, but I guess that is off topic for this forum. So, lets drop the legal discussion.


Oh Yeah... Well I'm the chairman of the board of a major software company and you guys should see the lawsuits that my company has to deal with... :hair:

Sincerely

Bill Gates

Now can we get back to the topic at hand.... geesh


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

In looking at version 12, I would suggest the following edits:

1. On the ViP satellite inputs (and the accompanying footnote), the word "separator" should be used as opposed to "splitter".

2. On the ViP video outputs for TV2, RF should be added. For distant TVs, it is the preferred method. A note about RF being NTSC is in order. TV1 and TV2 content (downconverted to SD) are each available on their own separate UHF or CATV channels and are both in MTS stereo.

3. On the CIR subject, "All Sub" is a built-in filter in the guide. Related to recording, the receiver won't try to record something that you aren't subscribed to. By the same token, it may not notify you that you're asking to record a PPV.

4. Not sure whether it is notable or not, but under PIP, the ViP DVRs can also do side-by-side video displays. These modes require that the receiver be in "single mode" which disables independent viewing on TV2.

5. On the VOD topic, most current DISH DVRs have the equivalent of the proposed R15 style VOD with all content being delivered via satellite feed. This is why you won't see a lot of excitement about VOD in the DISH forums. I guess I'd describe it as Sat (Broadband planned). One could reasonably spin that DIRECTV has a manner of demand video in that you can pay for a PPV movie after you've downloaded it (as I understand it).

Mosaics should probably be a category if the HR10 can't do them; especially when going into an Olympic year. Then again, maybe that's covered by "interactive channels".


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks for all the info guys, I think we've finally got something we can all be proud of. v12d (which I believe should do it) has just been posted over in the D* forum (see link in my opening post here). I'll try stopping by sometime soon to say hey since I don't make it over here that often. It's been very educational.

By the way, if you guys know of a new feature, HD DVR, etc coming out that would make the doc better in the future, please don't hesitate to PM me!

Tony


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Hi gang, I'm back. Wanted to check in and get the latest scoop to make sure my doc is up to date. I'm about to make some changes to the HR2x side and wanted to be sure I was keeping up on the ViP side as well.

One new feature that DIRECTV has is something called GameSearch. If you go to a channel to watch a game and it's blacked out, GameSearch will go and look to see if the game is available on another channel. It's a very cool feature that has already helped me a couple of times watch the Tigers and Red Wings.

Is there a feature like that on the ViP or any new features I should add/remove?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tfederov said:


> Is there a feature like that on the ViP or any new features I should add/remove?


DISH has _reportedly_ enabled the ability to move the external USB hard drive between ViP DVRs. I'm still on the fence about whether or not "Showcase" support is available as I don't fully understand what is involved over and above a multi-screen index.

On the DIRECTV side, I'd suggest that until the AM21 actually becomes generally available, that it be ignored.


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## MikeHou (Oct 18, 2006)

tfederov said:


> One new feature that DIRECTV has is something called GameSearch. If you go to a channel to watch a game and it's blacked out, GameSearch will go and look to see if the game is available on another channel. It's a very cool feature that has already helped me a couple of times watch the Tigers and Red Wings.
> 
> Is there a feature like that on the ViP or any new features I should add/remove?


What do on my 622 for this is navigate to the channel (either change to it or bring it up in the guide), then press * to start the search function (which will default to the game I've navigated to), then the search results will show other channels carrying that game. I mostly use it to see if it's in HD somewhere, but would function the same for blackouts.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

harsh said:


> DISH has _reportedly_ enabled the ability to move the external USB hard drive between ViP DVRs. I'm still on the fence about whether or not "Showcase" support is available as I don't fully understand what is involved over and above a multi-screen index.
> 
> On the DIRECTV side, I'd suggest that until the AM21 actually becomes generally available, that it be ignored.


So I can say that videos can be moved from one DVR to another via USB hard drive?



MikeHou said:


> What do on my 622 for this is navigate to the channel (either change to it or bring it up in the guide), then press * to start the search function (which will default to the game I've navigated to), then the search results will show other channels carrying that game. I mostly use it to see if it's in HD somewhere, but would function the same for blackouts.


That sounds to me like it's a manual version of GameSearch. Close enough to say it is. Thanks guys!


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## DBS Commando (Apr 7, 2006)

tfederov said:


> So I can say that videos can be moved from one DVR to another via USB hard drive?


Yup.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Now that the AM21 has been released, it should probably be noted as an option for the HR21.


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## rviele (Mar 16, 2007)

i have a 722 and i have a small round dish with 3 lnb's and i want hd . do i need to change dishs and add more lnb's?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Your dish ... a Dish 1000 by the sound of it ... should be enough for HD.
There should be some labeling on it ... if it is labeled as a "superdish" (which most would consider larger not "small round") you will need a different dish for HD.


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