# BUG: WXMI in Grand Rapids No Guide Data



## JR_Baas (May 5, 2005)

I just noticed that I do not have Guide data for WXMI 17 in Grand Rapids. Any one else notice it?


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## alexbgr (Dec 8, 2003)

I'm seeing the guide data on 8713 and mapped 017-1


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

my guide data is there and is mapped to 17-1 as well.


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

ditto


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## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

I'm in the same spot as JR_Baas on this one. I DO have guide data for channel 8713 but DO NOT have any guide data for 17-1. My 942 is brand new.


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## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

Also, has anyone noticed that the guide data for 35-1 has been incorrect since WGVU went HD? I think this one is WGVU's fault, not Dish Network's fault. 35-1 is not mirroring WGVU's analog service at all. Most of the day it is just a static slate. In the evening, when there is programming, it doesn't match either. I think I read somewhere that the FCC mandates the "-1" channel's content must match the analog service. If that is the case, WGVU is out of compliance.


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## Mike Johnson (Jan 16, 2005)

Jason Kragt said:


> I think I read somewhere that the FCC mandates the "-1" channel's content must match the analog service.


The FCC has never mandated that, but I believe that Dish assumed that most broadcasters would do it that way. At the station I work for, we use the -2 channel to repeat our analog service. In fact our encoder requires that our -1 be High Def, so we are stuck with using -2. Anyway, the Dish guide data won't map for our station, and I'm guessing it's because we use -2 instead of -1.


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

So far it seems that 35.1 is the national HD feed from PBS and 35.2 is the WGVU programming, as shown on the guide. This is a major frustration, as much of the recording I do is OTA PBS.

Dish guide does not list programming for any of the .2 subchannels in our area. Do they list them in any market?


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## JR_Baas (May 5, 2005)

alexbgr said:


> I'm seeing the guide data on 8713 and mapped 017-1


OK. Does anyone have an idea as to what I need to do to get my 942 to display the guide data for WXMI? It has displayed it fine in the past. When it quit working, I did a soft reboot, a hard reboot, and a check switch to force the guide download. Is this something that I should call dish about? I plan on getting a new 622 in April when I can get the rebate, but that is a long time to wait for guide data.


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## Antknee (Oct 13, 2005)

sorry, mine works fine. I did have to manually enter my OTA stations in as opposed to use the auto scan.


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## JR_Baas (May 5, 2005)

Antknee said:


> sorry, mine works fine. I did have to manually enter my OTA stations in as opposed to use the auto scan.


This may be the key. I just put up a new Royal 17 antenna. I then deleted all of my OTA stations and did an auto scan. Tonight I will try deleting all the OTA stations again, then add them manually.


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

In the Sacramento DMA, the local PBS (KVIE) runs either two subchannels (6.1 and 6.2) or 4 subchannels, depending on time of day. None of the subchannels match the analog content (it isn't required to do so). DISH duplicates the EPG info from 6-00 onto 6-02 (showing the dreaded Digital Service on 6.1, 6.3, and 6.4). Channel 13 (KOVR) is CBS O&O and does NOW match their analog programming on 13-01 in HD but 13-01 shows Digital Service at all times with the 13-00 program info duplicated onto 13-02 so that CBS can't be recorded in HD w/o a manual timer.

I can't get the Bay Area stations reliably but there are days when the signal will lock. All you need to get EPG info for an ATSC channel is to once get lock (even taking the receiver to a neighbor DMA) where it SEEMS to translate the station to a 5 digit EPG number 34567. That is the case for my neighboring SF PBS station KQED. The DISH EPG info has 9-01 as well as its other four subchannels 9-02 thru 9-05, eventhough I don't have 9-00 as a local (SF isn't "significantly viewed"). DISH seems to do a great job of showing the subchannel info in the guide in the SF DMA.


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

zephyr said:


> So far it seems that 35.1 is the national HD feed from PBS and 35.2 is the WGVU programming, as shown on the guide. This is a major frustration, as much of the recording I do is OTA PBS.
> 
> Dish guide does not list programming for any of the .2 subchannels in our area. Do they list them in any market?


zephyr - there are a few shows I record off of pbs as well. Unfortunately, I cannot pick up WGVU OTA. Tower Guy has suggested a setup that I'm sure will work well, but it will invlove two antennas and an antenna joiner. Out of curiousity, what do you use? If it is a single antenna, do you experience pixelation on CBS?

Is WGVU OTA in widescreen for shows like NOVA?


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

tegage said:


> zephyr - there are a few shows I record off of pbs as well. Unfortunately, I cannot pick up WGVU OTA. Tower Guy has suggested a setup that I'm sure will work well, but it will invlove two antennas and an antenna joiner. Out of curiousity, what do you use? If it is a single antenna, do you experience pixelation on CBS?
> 
> Is WGVU OTA in widescreen for shows like NOVA?


I use a Royal 17 in the attic, amplified, with the large boom pointed at 3, 8, etc. (actually 30 deg east; see another of my posts), the mid-sized boom pointed at WGVU and the smallest boom pointed at 13. I am in southeast Grand Rapids, in an older neighborhood with large trees and two-storey brick houses.

WGVU comes in great. WWMT (CBS) drops out regularly, but is generally watchable enough. If could live with the aesthetics, moving the antenna to the roof would probably solve CBS.

And yes, all the good stuff like Nova is now HD widescreen OTA. I do not know what cable is sending through.


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

zephyr said:


> I use a Royal 17 in the attic, amplified, with the large boom pointed at 3, 8, etc. (actually 30 deg east; see another of my posts), the mid-sized boom pointed at WGVU and the smallest boom pointed at 13. I am in southeast Grand Rapids, in an older neighborhood with large trees and two-storey brick houses.
> 
> WGVU comes in great. WWMT (CBS) drops out regularly, but is generally watchable enough. If could live with the aesthetics, moving the antenna to the roof would probably solve CBS.
> 
> And yes, all the good stuff like Nova is now HD widescreen OTA. I do not know what cable is sending through.


I am in Cascade, so I suspect we are close to each other. Good news on pbs OTA. Tower Guy has suggested two antennas that he believes will perform better than my AC-9 and, like you, suggests a separate antenna for WGVU. My AC-9 (non-amplified) is on top of my gargage and works well with WWMT, but I do get a drop out or two during each show. the other major networks come in flawlessly. I'll switch to a two-antenna setup in the spring.

How did you join your antennas?


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## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

The Royal 17 is engineered to be joined. If you join antennas that aren't engineered to be joined, you risk getting reflected signals ("ghosts").

I deleted 17-1 from my 942's last channel scan and re-added the channel manually. I still get no program guide for 17-1.


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## zephyr (Jun 25, 2005)

tegage said:


> How did you join your antennas?


As noted, the Royal 17 is designed to be joined, so it's just connecting the booms in the right order with the supplied leads. The only thing I did differently is point the two smaller booms in the opposite ways as would be indicated for analog reception, due to the different broadcast channels for digital. 35.1 broadcasts on 11 and 13.1 broadcasts on 39, each closer to the other's analog frequency.

WWMT, which broadcasts digitally on 2, is about impossible for the 942, as is amply documented on DBSTalk.


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

zephyr said:


> As noted, the Royal 17 is designed to be joined, so it's just connecting the booms in the right order with the supplied leads. The only thing I did differently is point the two smaller booms in the opposite ways as would be indicated for analog reception, due to the different broadcast channels for digital. 35.1 broadcasts on 11 and 13.1 broadcasts on 39, each closer to the other's analog frequency.
> 
> WWMT, which broadcasts digitally on 2, is about impossible for the 942, as is amply documented on DBSTalk.


zephyr, Jason - in this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=49918
one of two antennas was suggested as a way receive WMMT better. The are both very big and very directional. The arguments for them seem to make sense. Later in the thread, the same person suggests a second, channel 11 specific antenna pointed at WGVU and then to use a channel 11 specific "jointenna" to join them togeather. This seems like a good solution. All together it will cost $130 to $150, but I think I'll give it a try when the weather warms.

So I take it that the Royal 17 is our "area special". If that's the case, I work with a guy who uses this antenna and based on our conversation, I think the AC-9 works a lot better for WMMT than the Royal. WMMT is very watchable for me - maybe one brief breakup per 1/2 hour, but I would like it to be perfect like the other channels. Hopefully either the winegard or channelmaster suggested will do the trick.

It's too bad WGVU didn't build their new toer in the same area as the other networks (WZZM excluded). It would be interesting to know the story behind this, because as it stands, I suspect there will only be a few of us that go through the effort/expense to pull in their digital signal making the new tower a real waste of money.

Todd


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## JR_Baas (May 5, 2005)

I deleted 17, powered down the receiver, powered back up and did a check switch to force the download of the guide information. Then I manually added 17 back. It still does not show the guide data. To the people that have it working, what does the name say in 6-9 menu. My says 17-1 FOX17D. On the guide it is listed as FOX1. I even tried to edit the name to WXMIDT, and WXMI but that did not work either. Does anyone have any other ideas?


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

JR_Baas,

sorry, I edited all the names for my locals after I originally scanned them so I don't know how they originally came over. I was going to delete and re-add the channel, but I have several Timers created for FOX and I am afraid I'd loose them.

Have you called DISH?


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## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

tegage said:


> zephyr, Jason - in this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=49918
> one of two antennas was suggested as a way receive WMMT better. The are both very big and very directional. The arguments for them seem to make sense. Later in the thread, the same person suggests a second, channel 11 specific antenna pointed at WGVU and then to use a channel 11 specific "jointenna" to join them togeather. This seems like a good solution. All together it will cost $130 to $150, but I think I'll give it a try when the weather warms.


That is a valid setup. A Royal 17 might give you 13 and 54 too, but if you don't watch those channels, then no big deal. Please let us know next spring how things go. If the Royal 17 is truly inferior to your setup relative to channel 2, then I'll try it too.

I'm only using two of the three elements of my Royal 17 anyway. The multi-purpose element points toward Gun Lake, and the VHF-only element points toward Allendale. I thought that I would have to point the UHF-only element toward Grant, but adding that element to the mix hurt the reception of several channels, including WZZM. I have no idea how WZZM-DT is entering my system, but it is a very reliable signal.

The other benefit you get by waiting until spring is you get to observe any seasonal anomalies. My 921 had problems picking up WWMT last winter, but for some strange reason, WWMT became quite reliable for me in spring, summer and fall. Right about the time it started to degrade again this year I got my 942, so I don't know if it is the 942 or a seasonal thing for me, or maybe some combination of both. I should know for sure by April.


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

Jason Kragt said:


> The other benefit you get by waiting until spring is you get to observe any seasonal anomalies. My 921 had problems picking up WWMT last winter, but for some strange reason, WWMT became quite reliable for me in spring, summer and fall. Right about the time it started to degrade again this year I got my 942, so I don't know if it is the 942 or a seasonal thing for me, or maybe some combination of both. I should know for sure by April.


Personally, I don't think poor reception of WWMT is a 942 thing. That's why I mentioned the AC-9 potentially outperforming the Royal 17 on channel 2. I have heard from more than one source about the issues with channel 2. I think it is a Channel 2 issue, which makes the resolution an antenna issue. For what it's worth, my 6000 is no better and maybe worse, than the 942, WWMT wise.

I'm been watching WMMT's digital signal for a few years now and haven't noticed seasonal effects, but then again, I haven't done any empirical testing either.


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## JR_Baas (May 5, 2005)

Well I tried everything I could of this weekend to try to get the guide data for WXMI. I even did a reset to default settings. Nothing worked. Anyone else got any ideas?


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## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

Has Dish Network been made aware of this problem? I've been tempted to call myself a few times, but just haven't found the time yet. It's much easier if someone else solves the problem here!


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## JR_Baas (May 5, 2005)

I have not yet called dish. I was hoping that someone had a suggestion here.


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## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

Sounds like we need to draw straws here. The loser gets the honor of calling DISH, waiting on hold for 15 minutes or so, getting transferred to a couple of different technicians, resetting the reciver and doing switch checks (to humor them), clearing all OTA channels and re-scanning, then after an hour so of doing this be told that it's a known problem that is scheduled to be fixed in the next release.


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## JR_Baas (May 5, 2005)

Jason Kragt said:


> Sounds like we need to draw straws here. The loser gets the honor of calling DISH, waiting on hold for 15 minutes or so, getting transferred to a couple of different technicians, resetting the reciver and doing switch checks (to humor them), clearing all OTA channels and re-scanning, then after an hour so of doing this be told that it's a known problem that is scheduled to be fixed in the next release.


I here you. That is why I posted here instead of calling dish.


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

Jason Kragt said:


> Sounds like we need to draw straws here. The loser gets the honor of calling DISH, waiting on hold for 15 minutes or so, getting transferred to a couple of different technicians, resetting the reciver and doing switch checks (to humor them), clearing all OTA channels and re-scanning, then after an hour so of doing this be told that it's a known problem that is scheduled to be fixed in the next release.


I had two conversations with DISH Technical Support in December and I was very impressed with both of the people I talked with. Both were patient and quickly grasped the fact that I had a basic understanding of the topic so they didn't waste time having me do silly things. Anyway, in all fairness, I thought I should pass this on since good news often is not reported.


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## Jason Kragt (Dec 20, 2002)

I think tegage just volunteered!


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## tegage (Sep 3, 2005)

Jason Kragt said:


> I think tegage just volunteered!


LOL

Just point the Dish tech to this thread and say: "I've done all that!"


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