# I hate this @#%$$#@ machine!!!!!



## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

I scheduled the MN-OAK baseball game to record today. So, I get home about 2 hours after the game started, turn on my TV/R15, press LIST,_ and the game is not listed!!!!_ WTF????

So, I go to 206, and the information banner says that it is being recorded. I then go back to MyVOD, and the game is listed. In fact, it says that it started to record at 1pm ET.

But when I select PLAY, it just starts playing at the point where I turned to 206. All I got to watch was the last inning and a half.

The bottom line -- this POS is *still* UNstable and UNreliable!!!!!!!!!


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

You brought up a good point that I've been meaning to ask. Have you or anyone else noticed any partial recordings that don't says partial in them. I know I have gotten acouple of recording that are partials but don't show that way in MYVOD.


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

Absolutely!! I have had it record some programs and it stopped well before it was due. The guide just showed that it had recorded that program for x minutes. Of course, the worthless pos would lock up after that, forcing a reset and then I would lose that partial recording.

And none of them ever said "Partial".

I am in the process of dumping everything to DVD right now, and then I will do a reformat. If this doesn't solve it, D* is going to hear very harsh words from me.

Why aren't we getting a class-action lawsuit together? This is inexcuseable!!!


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

Now that my BP is coming back down to Earth......

Unfortunately, I was too PO-ed to check the history. But here is what I did. When the game was over I pressed STOP and KEEP. I checked MyVOD and it said that the recording was 37 minutes long. So, although it did not record correctly, MyVOD did correctly show how long it had recorded. I have since deleted it so my history now shows deleted.


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

Well, I just checked my VOD history and it shows that a show was recorded, no minutes, nothing there, but it is listed. What a POS!!!


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Ok, it's not just me. I guess in one of the updates they decided to give us less info! Why they hell would they take some as useful as the word partial out of R15!!! This is really bad.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

Hey, I think I might have stumbled on to something important. 

When I set up the recording, I highlighted the game in the GUIDE and pressed my RECORD button. At that time, the listing was something like "MLB Baseball: Divisional Series. Teams TBA".

I'd be willing to bet a few drinks that the R15 couldn't handle the title change in the programming guide.

As a test I'll see if the same thing happens on Friday (it is still listed at MLB Baseball... in the guide). In contrast, the A's/Twins game
is correctly listed for tomorrow.


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Ok, it's not just me. I guess in one of the updates they decided to give us less info! Why they hell would they take some as useful as the word partial out of R15!!! This is really bad.


It's way beyond bad. It's intolerable. We have a box that is completely unreliable and DirecTV seems to think that it's okay. What the hell are we paying for? We are not getting what was promised and it's about time someone held their feet to the fire.

Fix these boxes once and for all or replace them with something that DOES work.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Another user reported a similar thing with the HR20...
It appears it has something to do with the Guide data being updated, to reflect the actuall teams playing.

I have sent an email to find out what is going on.


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

Earl, 

Does anyone (if you know) at D* who actually matters to anything know about the absolute hell we are going through? Do they even care?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

sheridan1952 said:


> Earl,
> 
> Does anyone (if you know) at D* who actually matters to anything know about the absolute hell we are going through? Do they even care?


1) Yes... there are plenty of people who do see all the posts, reports, rants, ect...
2) Yes... there are plenty that care as well

All I can tell yah is that they are working on the next software update....

As for this particular issue (the guide data).... I have no answer for you yet.

From what I know on how the guide data works... when they "changed" the title of the program... it first drops from the guide (which in turn would delete your recording, as the program you requested was deleted from the schedule).... and then it adds in the new program with the updated data...

Depending on how they did the update....
I don't have access to the raw guide data stream, so I can't tell you if something else changed (say the episode ID), or anything else that woudl cause the units to not record the program.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

zortapa said:


> Hey, I think I might have stumbled on to something important.
> 
> When I set up the recording, I highlighted the game in the GUIDE and pressed my RECORD button. At that time, the listing was something like "MLB Baseball: Divisional Series. Teams TBA".
> 
> I'd be willing to bet a few drinks that the R15 couldn't handle the title change in the programming guide.


Zortapa -- I reported a similar problem a couple of weeks ago with college football on ABC. I set up a record from the guide early in the week when the title of the program was "College Football".

On Thursday, ABC listed the teams playing, so the title of the program changed to "College Football: X vs Y". The R15 didn't recognize this as the same program, but found another program the following week called "College Football" and scheduled that to record instead. Of course, the following Thursday, ABC updated the program title with the teams, and the recording got pushed out another week.

FWIW, a friend of mine with Tivo said the Tivo did the same thing.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Thinking about it more....

Did you set up any other of the games? prior to the title/details change
I am curious if those have fallen off your ToDo list


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

D* has, for years now, been screwing up the guide data for sports events. They change the TITLE of the program from "MLB Baseball" to "TeamA vs. TeamB". (They also do it for NHL games, NBA games, NFL games, College Football, etc.) It's been discussed on a number of occasions in the past over at TCF, as it is the reason that you CANNOT set a Season Pass/Series Link for sports games on D*. If they would just leave the program titles alone, you could just set SLs for the channels on which the games appear, and then even if the Description changes, the Series still records.

Don't expect D* to change this, however. As I mentioned, it's nothing new, they've been doing it for years. They prefer to have the guide display "TeamA vs TeamB" rather than just "MLB Baseball".


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## viking1965 (Sep 26, 2006)

The Guide is nothing more than a database. When a "program", defined by Date / Time / Channel is initially inserted into the guide, it should be assigned a unique "key" value as its identifier in the Guide and on the "to-do" list. This value should NEVER be changed. Then, they can change the descrition and even the Name of the program, but it will remain on your To Do list using this identifier.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I think this happened to fanastic four on cartoon network (I think it's that channel). The SL says Fanastic four but now the programs say Fanastic four:world's greatest hero's. Sometimes it records it and others it doesn't.

As far as the partials I know it hasn't been the guide data. I've seen it with Monk (recorded 30 mins) and Chriss Angel mindfreak (where it was only 5 mins or so).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> D* has, for years now, been screwing up the guide data for sports events. They change the TITLE of the program from "MLB Baseball" to "TeamA vs. TeamB". (They also do it for NHL games, NBA games, NFL games, College Football, etc.) It's been discussed on a number of occasions in the past over at TCF, as it is the reason that you CANNOT set a Season Pass/Series Link for sports games on D*. If they would just leave the program titles alone, you could just set SLs for the channels on which the games appear, and then even if the Description changes, the Series still records.
> 
> Don't expect D* to change this, however. As I mentioned, it's nothing new, they've been doing it for years. They prefer to have the guide display "TeamA vs TeamB" rather than just "MLB Baseball".


But D* doesn't create the guide data... they get the data from Tribune.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But D* doesn't create the guide data... they get the data from Tribune.


Maybe your contact can give us a more definitive answer as to why the guide data changes. If you look at zap2it, the BB games in question here have "MLB Baseball" as the Title. At some point they get changed. Why? By whom? You, predictably, blame the data vendor. I, predictably, think that D* changes the data to suit their own purposes. 

Here's a thread I started a year ago on this very topic: http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3224484&&#post3224484


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But D* doesn't create the guide data... they get the data from Tribune.


Earl for what its worth.

Since i made the comment of the "black screen" in "live tv" and the reset w/ it going back to Sat setup. My DVR is NOT a dvr period. The thing has went nuts.

Nothing is working correctly and id be better off rolling the dice. I HAVE CX'x galore calling me with crazy noise going on and loss of one tuner.. no recordings that have been in their SL not showing up. The same mess as this posters.. and it goes on and on.. I dont know what happened in the last week or so.. BUT i can say for a fact that something has went haywire recently whether there is an official update release or what. Something HAS changed.

ive got cx's caalling saying they Have NO my VOD listings.. Nothing .. Just blank screens and this is coming from about 9-11 counties and IT IS wide spread. Im telling folks to reset and then in a day or 2 they are calling back with some new or the same occurrances way more than ever before.

You know what i do for a living and such and this thing at my house has went stupid. the local news i cant even rec a SL for it all of a sudden. No Weeds recording, No "the wire". All kinds of missed recordings. Blank and Black screens have became common in less than a week and religiously.

Something Definately has happened to guide data and EVEN MORE BUT yet the 
software version says the same.

I can say as a tech, a seller, and a customer that thing has went REAL stupid.
And has even got me pissed off.

(sigh)... Call the folks EARL!

I JUST GOT 2 MORE CALLS from cx's over this THING.!(since this post)


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## skaeight (Jan 15, 2004)

When this happens with tivo on a recording that was setup outside of a season pass, it still records that time slot. Lost was originally supposed to be on last monday, but they cancelled it and something else was on. I found that it was recording whatever else came on.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Could be a problem with a very specific peice of code, but I have seen after a reset when the Guide data is gone, the TDL (is that on the list) shows the scheduled recordings as "To be announced". I have even seen it recording the show with that as the title, then the recording gets updated with the correct info after the guide data is aquired. So, in general, I don't think there is a real problem with the guide data that is causing it.


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## atti (Aug 23, 2006)

zortapa said:


> Hey, I think I might have stumbled on to something important.
> 
> When I set up the recording, I highlighted the game in the GUIDE and pressed my RECORD button. At that time, the listing was something like "MLB Baseball: Divisional Series. Teams TBA".
> 
> ...


I feel ya. I had the same problem recording that game. I even set up recordings on two t.v.s/DVRs. On one the recording never showed up. On the other it started in the fifth inning, even though it showed it starting at 10 A.M. PST. in the V.O.D. 
I set it up one and two days ahead but I don't remember how the game was listed either day.


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## General_Zod (Apr 3, 2006)

I very rarely post here but i've got to say as an "average" consumer.. Someone who doesn't try to do too much (I have a very limited number of shows I record) I must say this is an absolutely horrible unit. I sincerely hope the DTV will realize they aren't DVR programmers and do what they do best which is the satellite side of things. Leave the DVR stuff up to experts like Tivo. The customers are suffering from this failed experiment. When I go to a friends house that have Tivo via their cable company I really feel that what I've been given by DTV is cheap and unworkable crap. DTV should be doing whatever they can to ensure their customers don't feel that way.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> 1) Yes... there are plenty of people who do see all the posts, reports, rants, ect...
> 2) Yes... there are plenty that care as well
> 
> All I can tell yah is that they are working on the next software update....
> ...


Earl, not meaning to pick on you.....but. Guide data excuses are getting old. If a Tvio or a UTV can record these programs properly, why can't the R15/HR20? Yes we hear about a new release. When? What will it fix? I know the HR20 folks are happy getting a new release every couple of weeks (well, maybe not with xD1) but the R15 crowd hasn't seen anything.

These problems are not your fault Earl. But at this point we have R15 and HR20 folks ready to blow their tops. I do not see it as you're job to answer all of the questions and calm the natives. I think it's about time DTV steps up to the plate and takes responsibility for these two units and starts explaining what is happening with software updates and when we can expect DVRs that operate as advertised.

Earl, I know you're trying to help everyone here, but there's a limited amount of help you can provide when the ship is sinking. Maybe you also need to tell your contacts at DTV that you're done making excuses for their ineptness. Just my thoughts buddy!!!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

General_Zod said:


> I very rarely post here but i've got to say as an "average" consumer.. Someone who doesn't try to do too much (I have a very limited number of shows I record) I must say this is an absolutely horrible unit. I sincerely hope the DTV will realize they aren't DVR programmers and do what they do best which is the satellite side of things. Leave the DVR stuff up to experts like Tivo. The customers are suffering from this failed experiment. When I go to a friends house that have Tivo via their cable company I really feel that what I've been given by DTV is cheap and unworkable crap. DTV should be doing whatever they can to ensure their customers don't feel that way.


Thank you General_Zod. You have just 4 posts but you hit the nail on the head. You are truly a General ahead of your time. 

DTV, do you see this? It isn't just my *****ing or the *****ing of all of us *****ers. The R15 has been out for almost a year now and cannot be depended on as a DVR. The HR20, just released, also cannot be depended on as a DVR. What's the deal guys???? To me, as General_Zod states, "I sincerely hope DTV will realize they aren't DVR programmers....".

Make peace with Tivo. Get them back on board. Restart production of R10's and HR10s. Stop wasting $$$ on the R15 and HR20 and start enhancing the Tivo software. It seems obvious to me that you cannot get the bugs out or your own software.

Fire those that made and supported the decision to start in house development. Fire those in house development managers that could not pull this off. Admit to the press you made a mistake, you value your customers and will make drastic changes to fix the current DVR problems.

Anyone remember "New Coke"? The biggest marketing blunder in the history of marketing blunders. But what did Coke do? They admitted they made a mistake and brought back "Coke Classic". I think it's time folks get fired at DTV and DTV admits they made a mistake and they bring back "DVR Classic". Tivos. Sometimes it take a very brave person to admit they made a mistake. Then again it only takes a coward to ignore their customers and stay on track with a flawed product.

OK, That made my brain tired. Gotta go sleep now. :grin:


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## zxcvb (Jun 19, 2006)

I have had the same problem occur twice in the last two weeks. Both times it was supposed to record The New Adventures of Old Christine at 9:30 - 10:00 while already recording Vanished from 9:00 - 10:00. Both times at about 9:15 or so I checked the List and it did not show it was recording Old Christine. As soon as I changed the channel to my local CBS, it started recording. The banner and history claim it started recording at 9:30 but the shows ended up being 13 and 17 minute recordings.

I have a feeling that if people who have had missed recordings had tuned to the station it was supposed to be recording during the designated recording time, it would have started and they would have been left with a partial recording. Since they didn't, it just missed the recording outright.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

zxcvb said:


> I have had the same problem occur twice in the last two weeks. Both times it was supposed to record The New Adventures of Old Christine at 9:30 - 10:00 while already recording Vanished from 9:00 - 10:00. Both times at about 9:15 or so I checked the List and it did not show it was recording Old Christine. As soon as I changed the channel to my local CBS, it started recording. The banner and history claim it started recording at 9:30 but the shows ended up being 13 and 17 minute recordings.
> 
> I have a feeling that if people who have had missed recordings had tuned to the station it was supposed to be recording during the designated recording time, it would have started and they would have been left with a partial recording. Since they didn't, it just missed the recording outright.


Were you on an active channel prior to that? There was a problem on the R15 side that if you left your unit on a MIX channel it wouldn't switch to record shows even if in StandBy. I believe that's been fixed on the R15 but may be a problem on the HR20.


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## zxcvb (Jun 19, 2006)

Nope, I was not on an active channel at the time. Both times I was watching a recorded program and the second tuner was on a regular channel while the first tuner was recording Vanished.


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## atti (Aug 23, 2006)

Just thought I'd add that in my case both t.v.s were tuned to ESPN during the recordings of the game. I'm a diehard A's fan and I didn't want to risk not having a tape of the game. I didn't think BOTH of the DVRs would fail me. I thought wrong. After the last couple of tech calls, many re-sets and one reinstall (or whatever it's called when you have to wipe the DVR slate clean and start over) I'd given up on tech support and just decided to live with it. But this was too much. I'm not ready to quit D* and anyway still have a year and a half committment. But is there anything I can do?


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> If a Tvio or a UTV can record these programs properly, why can't the R15/HR20?


Maybe not always:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319747

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319635

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319981

The second thread is talking about the same guide data changing issue problem in one of the threads here.

The third is about DirecTiVos getting a black screen when watching a recording.

Looks like the R-15 is not alone on some issues.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Thinking about it more....
> 
> Did you set up any other of the games? prior to the title/details change
> I am curious if those have fallen off your ToDo list


Earl,
A little background first.... I'm really a displaced Minnesotan (hey, da Bears look pretty good this year! Thank goodness for the wild card!!!!!).

Sunday evening, shortly after the Twinkies beat the Sox and the Royals won my appreciation, I jumped right into the R15 Guide to set up the recordings for the Twins-A's games. I first tried to set a SL, but it pulled all the games from all the channels. I didn't want this so I then tried to schedule recordings for the individual games. Both the 1pm ET slot for Tuesday and the 4pm ET slot for Friday were defined for "MLB Baseball....", and I scheduled both of them to be recorded. Interestingly, the Wed 1pm ET time slot was still showing a series of 30 programs, so I could not schedule that game to be recorded until last night when it was already titled "A's @ Twins".

So, the simple answer to your question is "yes", I scheduled the Friday game at 4pm to record at the same time that I scheduled the recording of yesterday's game. And "no", the Friday game has NOT fallen off my TODO list.

But I don't think that yesterday's game had fallen off the TODO list either. Rather, the R15 simply did not start recording it until I "turned on" the R15/TV. If it had been dropped from my TODO list, then why did it start recording when I turned it on?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

BattleScott said:


> Could be a problem with a very specific peice of code, but I have seen after a reset when the Guide data is gone, the TDL (is that on the list) shows the scheduled recordings as "To be announced". I have even seen it recording the show with that as the title, then the recording gets updated with the correct info after the guide data is aquired. So, in general, I don't think there is a real problem with the guide data that is causing it.


I've also seen false info in there too, besides the to be announced, after a reset. I've seen programs that don't really exist with weird times a lot of times it will be something on channel 2 with descriptions unknown. Sometimes there are duplicates but it usally corrects everything after a couple of mins.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

zxcvb said:


> I have had the same problem occur twice in the last two weeks. Both times it was supposed to record The New Adventures of Old Christine at 9:30 - 10:00 while already recording Vanished from 9:00 - 10:00. Both times at about 9:15 or so I checked the List and it did not show it was recording Old Christine. As soon as I changed the channel to my local CBS, it started recording. The banner and history claim it started recording at 9:30 but the shows ended up being 13 and 17 minute recordings.
> 
> I have a feeling that if people who have had missed recordings had tuned to the station it was supposed to be recording during the designated recording time, it would have started and they would have been left with a partial recording. Since they didn't, it just missed the recording outright.


I bet you in MYVOD it didn't show that it was partial either?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Maybe not always:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319747
> 
> ...


Bobman, we all know that Tivo and UTV aren't 100% prefect at recording. But I think Wolffpack was more saying that Tivo and UTV only have recording issue every bluemoon but the R15 doesn't seem to be as reliable as they are. I'll be the first to admit that my UTV missed a recording or two but I could usally figure out why (the history would tell me) but there a couple of times that it just flat out missed it. But not as often as the R15 has.


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## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Bobman, we all know that Tivo and UTV aren't 100% prefect at recording. But I think Wolffpack was more saying that Tivo and UTV only have recording issue every bluemoon but the R15 doesn't seem to be as reliable as they are. I'll be the first to admit that my UTV missed a recording or two but I could usally figure out why (the history would tell me) but there a couple of times that it just flat out missed it. But not as often as the R15 has.


The difference betwen the R15 OS and the R10 (TiVo) OS is the same as the difference between a Yugo and a Honda. One is a worthless piece of S that can never be depended on to do its primary function and the other can. 
What can you do? Call DTV, demand a credit equal to the price of a used R10 unit and then go to eBay and buy one. But you'd better hurry up as eventually all the folks that dumped their R10s for the wonderful new R15 will be hooking up the TiVo again because IT WORKS. I hope DTV reads these boards too...because their programming and quality of picture and sound is excellent...but only if you can actually watch it on your television.


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> Bobman, we all know that Tivo and UTV aren't 100% prefect at recording. But I think Wolffpack was more saying that Tivo and UTV only have recording issue every bluemoon but the R15 doesn't seem to be as reliable as they are. I'll be the first to admit that my UTV missed a recording or two but I could usally figure out why (the history would tell me) but there a couple of times that it just flat out missed it. But not as often as the R15 has.


Not only rhat, but on the occasions when the Tivo does have a problem, I can easily figure out what happened.


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## viking1965 (Sep 26, 2006)

I see many references in the forums to differences between how R15 and HR20 function (or dysfunction ). Why is it that way? As I see it, the only real difference between the two is that the HR can also record HD. This is merely a data format issue. Why should there be _ANY_ difference in the functionality and underlying code?

Being in the software develpoment business, I know what a huge nightmare, not to mention waste of money, it is to support two completely different code sets to perform essentially the same functions.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Bobman said:


> Maybe not always:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319747
> 
> ...


There are always legitimate problems with the guide and any DVR will behave the same in those instances. I've never had a problem with a missed recording that I couldn't resolve through the Recording history screen. That's why having a history screen that works is so important. Tivo units will tell you what happened:


Duplicate
Conflict (alternate scheduled)
Max Recordings Now Showing
Stayed on Live TV (I replied No to the switch channels message)
Deleted
No longer in program guide (alternate scheduled)
I have history back as far a 07/10 on one of my units not just the last 50 messages.

Your example of the "DirecTivos getting the black screen" seems pretty clear to me. One person had 30 minutes of one of his recordings go black. He rebooted and switched cables and the black screen was still there. Given he's located in IN so I'd guess he had a weather problem, possibly rain fade. In which case a Tivo will continue recording the dead air time.

Remember way back in May when Chase Carey made the statement that the R15 was successfully debugged? http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=57386

Obviously guide data can cause missed recordings. But bad guide data isn't the major reason why the R15 misses recordings. And without a functional history module it's hard to tell what the problem is.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

viking1965 said:


> I see many references in the forums to differences between how R15 and HR20 function (or dysfunction ). Why is it that way? As I see it, the only real difference between the two is that the HR can also record HD. This is merely a data format issue. Why should there be _ANY_ difference in the functionality and underlying code?
> 
> Being in the software develpoment business, I know what a huge nightmare, not to mention waste of money, it is to support two completely different code sets to perform essentially the same functions.


The R15 and HR20 are running on completely different hardware platforms. As of yet we don't have a complete chipset list for the HR20 but it's got more memory a more powerful processor and other chip differences.

From the software side the R15 was based on existing code originally developed by NDS for the Sky+ DVRs using XTV technology. These boxes have had problems and some of the same limits we see on the R15 & HR20 since they were introduced in 2001. Right, 2001, they're a tad old. Meanwhile the HR20 (we are told) was developed completely from scratch by DTV and rumor has it that it's Linux based. The HR20's HD appears to have some type of Linux ext2 partition(s) while the R15's HD appears to have some type of FAT32 partition on it.

Two different pieces of hardware running two different versions of software written by two different sets of developers. I agree with you viking, I don't know how DTV can justify supporting/debugging/enhancing two completely different platforms such as they current have. My guess is one of those platforms will be abandoned.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Two different pieces of hardware running two different versions of software written by two different sets of developers. I agree with you viking, I don't know how DTV can justify supporting/debugging/enhancing two completely different platforms such as they current have. My guess is one of those platforms will be abandoned.


That and I think they figured out that going with NDS software was an issue and tried to make things right.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Two different pieces of hardware running two different versions of software written by two different sets of developers. I agree with you viking, I don't know how DTV can justify supporting/debugging/enhancing two completely different platforms such as they current have. My guess is one of those platforms will be abandoned.


A little more evidence for the 'Stop-Gap' thread Wolffpack. I would really doubt if DTV has programmers in-house for the R-15. I would bet they are just contracting that work through NDS.

The R-15 was a quick drop-in to satisfy the short term void until the HR-20 was 'ready' (regardless of what the 'New Update Coming...' rumor mills say).
The HR-20 can do both SD and HD, so it only makes sense (maybe that is where i'm drifting off-base) to move forward with that unit only.

Would make coaxing subscribers into the HD packages a little easier down the road too if they already had an HD capable DVR...


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> as General_Zod states, "I sincerely hope DTV will realize they aren't DVR programmers....".
> 
> Make peace with Tivo. Get them back on board. Restart production of R10's and HR10s. Stop wasting $$$ on the R15 and HR20 and start enhancing the Tivo software.
> 
> ...


AMEN, AMEN, AMEN.

And I'll say it one more time. AMEN!!!

Wolffpack's and General_Zod's posts need to be printed and hand delivered to DirecTV's CEO.

With the NHL starting today, I'm so glad I have my TiVos again. I had R15s at the end of last season and it sucked major dirt. Now, I will be able to successfully auto record the teams I like.

Okay, one more time. AMEN!


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## viking1965 (Sep 26, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> The R15 and HR20 are running on completely different hardware platforms. As of yet we don't have a complete chipset list for the HR20 but it's got more memory a more powerful processor and other chip differences.
> 
> From the software side the R15 was based on existing code originally developed by NDS for the Sky+ DVRs using XTV technology. These boxes have had problems and some of the same limits we see on the R15 & HR20 since they were introduced in 2001. Right, 2001, they're a tad old. Meanwhile the HR20 (we are told) was developed completely from scratch by DTV and rumor has it that it's Linux based. The HR20's HD appears to have some type of Linux ext2 partition(s) while the R15's HD appears to have some type of FAT32 partition on it.
> 
> Two different pieces of hardware running two different versions of software written by two different sets of developers. I agree with you viking, I don't know how DTV can justify supporting/debugging/enhancing two completely different platforms such as they current have. My guess is one of those platforms will be abandoned.


...it gives some insight as to how we got to this point. But I think we agree that they definitely made some poor choices.

...and now we're all paying for it.


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## Vegas (Mar 2, 2006)

> "I very rarely post here but i've got to say as an "average" consumer.. Someone who doesn't try to do too much (I have a very limited number of shows I record) I must say this is an absolutely horrible unit. I sincerely hope the DTV will realize they aren't DVR programmers and do what they do best which is the satellite side of things. Leave the DVR stuff up to experts like Tivo. The customers are suffering from this failed experiment. When I go to a friends house that have Tivo via their cable company I really feel that what I've been given by DTV is cheap and unworkable crap. DTV should be doing whatever they can to ensure their customers don't feel that way."





Wolffpack said:


> Thank you General_Zod. You have just 4 posts but you hit the nail on the head. You are truly a General ahead of your time.
> 
> DTV, do you see this? It isn't just my *****ing or the *****ing of all of us *****ers. The R15 has been out for almost a year now and cannot be depended on as a DVR. The HR20, just released, also cannot be depended on as a DVR. What's the deal guys???? To me, as General_Zod states, "I sincerely hope DTV will realize they aren't DVR programmers....".
> 
> ...


This sums up my feelings since reveiving the R15 10 months ago.

D* ARE YOU LISTENING?

I am an "A" list customer, have been with D for 10 years and like the service very much, however, when the Tivo is no longer available or functioning I to will say farewell to D...

Vegas


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## skid00skid00 (Sep 21, 2006)

I'd like to spend my 2 cents on the topic of recording via the title...

If I want to record 'Lost', and then the broadcaster moves it to a new time slot, I want 'Lost' to record, not whatever program runs in the old time slot...

I can understand why the R15 programmers use the title as the 'key' to the program. The only other choise would be for unique identifiers to be hand-keyed into the data stream that builds the guide, determined by 'someone', 'somewhere'...and then maybe that someone screws up the ID.... and you don't get your program. Definitely not a good thing.

I assume that the originating broadcaster (that's not DTV) provides DTV with the guide data, and DTV just sends it out. That means that the O.B. takes the blame for renaming programs...


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

I'm with you.

Fed up!!!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

skid00skid00 said:


> I'd like to spend my 2 cents on the topic of recording via the title...
> 
> If I want to record 'Lost', and then the broadcaster moves it to a new time slot, I want 'Lost' to record, not whatever program runs in the old time slot...
> 
> ...


I do not believe the R15 uses the Title as a key in an SL. I've looked at the files on the R15 HD and there is a show ID in the SL file (signup.dbf IIRC). If that show gets moved, your recording should also move. Now, if you setup a channel/time specific record, it will record that channel/time. If you setup an Autorecord, I have no idea what it will do as I have no idea what the Autorecord logic it.

Now, the disclaimer here is that even when the world/guide is perfect, there are still recordings that are missed on the R15. Had nothing to do with the guide, just the R15. Also, the R15 history doesn't help at all in trying to figure out what happened.


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## zortapa (Nov 16, 2005)

zortapa said:


> Sunday evening ... I ... set up the recordings for the Twins-A's games. I first tried to set a SL, but it pulled all the games from all the channels. I didn't want this so I then tried to schedule recordings for the individual games. Both the 1pm ET slot for Tuesday and the 4pm ET slot for Friday were defined for "MLB Baseball....", and I scheduled both of them to be recorded. Interestingly, the Wed 1pm ET time slot was still showing a series of 30 programs, so I could not schedule that game to be recorded until last night when it was already titled "A's @ Twins".
> 
> So, the simple answer to your question is "yes", I scheduled the Friday game at 4pm to record at the same time that I scheduled the recording of yesterday's game. *And "no", the Friday game has NOT fallen off my TODO list. *
> 
> But I don't think that yesterday's game had fallen off the TODO list either. Rather, the R15 simply did not start recording it until I "turned on" the R15/TV. If it had been dropped from my TODO list, then why did it start recording when I turned it on?


Earl,

In case you are still following this thread, I need to correct one point that I made above. Specifically, when I got home last night I checked my TODO list and the Friday Twins-A's game was *NOT* listed. However, when I looked in the guide, this game was listed with the R record symbol after the title.

So, it seems that the title change caused the event to be dropped from the TODO list but not from the timeslot in the guide.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I
> Now, the disclaimer here is that even when the world/guide is perfect, there are still recordings that are missed on the R15. Had nothing to do with the guide, just the R15. Also, the R15 history doesn't help at all in trying to figure out what happened.


At least if we had that we could post here what the R15 thought was going on. We could say "the R15 thought the show wasn't on so it canceled it" or "it thinks delete it" or "it thinks it record a 1 hour show but it really only recorded 35mins" or "the R15 was recording the simpons and recording a showcase so that's why it didn't record lost". I really don't see what they haven't but this info in there? Are they afraid that we will see what's really happening? All I can see is this info helping them and us to find out what is going on in the R15's head.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

zortapa said:


> Earl,
> 
> In case you are still following this thread, I need to correct one point that I made above. Specifically, when I got home last night I checked my TODO list and the Friday Twins-A's game was *NOT* listed. However, when I looked in the guide, this game was listed with the R record symbol after the title.
> 
> So, it seems that the title change caused the event to be dropped from the TODO list but not from the timeslot in the guide.


Thanks for the update..
I know DirecTV is trying to figure out what happened, as a simple title and description change, is not supposed to result in what happen.


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

I have noticed in just the past week or so that some of my series link recordings are not being put on the TDL or instead of recording just "first run" like I have the series link set up for it will record only repeats. As an example I have a series link for "Judge Judy" and for the last couple of months it was only adding first run episodes to the TDL. Then starting about a week ago it suddenly started putting only repeats on the TDL. I checked the series link on the prioritizer. I even deleted it and created it again and made sure that I had it set up for "first run" still it is adding only repeats to the TDL.

Another show is "John Edward Cross Country" I have a series link set up for that for first run only. The R 15 just throws any or all episodes on the TDL regardless of them being repeats. At the very least add that feature that the HR 10-250 has where you can press "info" and it will show you the original air date of an episode that way I knew whether or not I'd seen that episode already. This feature would help on the HR 20 as well.

I also have a series link for three soaps, one being "Days of Our Lives" the R 15 will pick up some first run episodes and ignore others even when those episodes are listed in the program guide. Just no record symbol next to them and they aren't on the to do list. Again I have tried deleting the series link and setting it up again to no avail. Same thing with "Dr. Phil". I am really getting tired of having to constantly babysit the R 15 in hopes of getting my shows. Even that is not always enough. I'm sorry to sound negative but I feel I have given the R 15 a very fair shot, but it remains a total disappointment.

One tech support person told me that they have had "so many upgrades" because they wanted to avoid a massive recall. I sat there thinking at this point I really think a recall would be a better solution. Just admit the thing doesn't work, own up to it and make it right. Quit making excuses. They don't help but only serve to frustrate customers more. I *like* D*
I don't want Dish or cable. But for goodness sakes, fix the R 15 or get it gone.


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## compac (Oct 6, 2006)

Having similar probs too... 

Saw some HD nhl hockey on the guide and set to record.
went to bed next day show not in my vid but show is listed as canceled in the history... 
This was a Blues game on chan 94, iirc 

Errrr

same w/ a Survior (not our fav, just for kicks) on a local chan...

Seems to be a REAL prob that is a PITA and a reason to return / relpace hr20 if D* not willing to fix / reprogram


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## DukeBX (Aug 25, 2006)

I've had mine since August. Haven't had any major problems. I've had little things like screen freezing during rain,and certain times being sent to CH 201 (not anymore though). The thing that bothered me though was when I recorded The Aviator (Leonardo DiCaprio) on Starz. I set it to record so I could see it later on during the week. So I happen to watch it on a Monday afternoon. I click play and Boom! I see The Pacifier w/Vin Diesel. I was like,What the hell? So i fast forward throught practially the whole movie. Then,The Aviator came up. I was like,"Oh well,now I have a second movie recorded." But this is the weird thing. At around 70% of the movie, it ends! little box pops up and tells me Keep or Delete. I was like,NO! I set it correct,i picked the right movie,and boom! I never happened before and hasn't happen since.I don't get it. Overall though,I'm happy with my DVR. Like i said,haven't had any major problems. To compare it to cable (was a Cablevision of NY subscriber for 9 years) I used to have my channels all turn to pay per view channels. Channels were all black.Had to call them many time and some night,i was stuck until the next morning. I hated cable and always will!


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## flynlr (Jan 21, 2006)

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

set south park last sunday to do a single record of the wensday at 8pm episode
ie the new one.
the guide had no details at the time but i never thought that to be a problem. 
guess what? it is. I would love to do a series link but cant due to the 9 million non first runs that will record if i set it. it seems if you manualy set a program to record and the guide data changes you are screwed


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