# NEXTGEN TV moving glacially



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Never mind that there are only a handful of capable TVs and tuners available.

The projections were for there to be 60 markets up and running by mid 2021 (revised from EOY 2020 in October of 2020). Today there are 25 with six about to launch. None of the truly major markets have yet to light up that was supposed to bring NEXTGEN TV to 70% per capita availability.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

say "ATSC 3.0" and you will get more hits


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> say "ATSC 3.0" and you will get more hits


I'm not interested in hits. I'm primarily lamenting the fact that things are moving much too slowly for NEXTGEN TV to maintain excitement in a marketplace that has been watching a lot more TV than usual.

Those who don't understand the connection between ATSC 3.0 and NEXTGEN TV perhaps aren't all that interested anyway.


----------



## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

harsh said:


> Never mind that there are only a handful of capable TVs and tuners available.
> 
> The projections were for there to be 60 markets up and running by mid 2021 (revised from EOY 2020 in October of 2020). Today there are 25 with six about to launch. None of the truly major markets have yet to light up that was supposed to bring NEXTGEN TV to 70% per capita availability.


Totally with you here. I'm between 2 markets, one of which is #1 DMA NY, and not a single channel done yet, and no news of any forthcoming. While we're young!


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

I had high hopes for ATSC 3.0 a few years ago, shortly after I cut the cord on cable/satellite and adopted OTA TV (in conjunction with streaming). But at this point, I'm skeptical that it will ever reach widespread-enough adoption for broadcasters to pull the plug on ATSC 1.0. I'd say it's more likely in the next few years that we see Disney, Comcast/NBCUniversal and Fox follow Paramount+/CBS's lead and start including live feeds of local ABC, NBC and Fox stations, respectively, in low-cost/free subscriptions to Hulu, Peacock and Tubi.

For folks mainly interested in ATSC 3.0 in order to see more stuff in 4K, HDR and/or Dolby Atmos, again, I expect to see that first emerge via those media giants' on-demand apps. How much longer until new ABC series are available next-day in 4K HDR in Hulu? Same with NBC shows in Peacock and CBS shows in Paramount+. I have to think that's going to happen at the same time, if not before, live feeds of those shows are made available to affiliates for use on their 3.0 stations.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> I have to think that's going to happen at the same time, if not before, live feeds of those shows are made available to affiliates for use on their 3.0 stations.


If that's the case, NEXTGEN TV is doomed. The repack and the decision to make the ATSC 3.0 stations do the lighthousing pretty much precludes getting any of the exciting new technology out there to attract viewers to the new scheme. In my market, the NEXTGEN stations are running three networks suggesting to me that there will be no advantage until after DTV is gone and that's a recipe for failure.

3D had its glasses and NEXTGEN TV has been handed a skinny data pipe.


----------



## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

harsh said:


> 3D had its glasses and NEXTGEN TV has been handed a skinny data pipe.


Yes, and then consider that the broadcasters don't even want/plan to use all of their 3.0 bandwidth for TV! They hope to monetize some of it through datacasting. From what I hear, they're really courting Detroit lately, hoping that automakers will include 3.0 tuners in their cars so that it can be used not only to deliver OTA TV (same as available to the general public), but also software/firmware updates, map data, music and even pre-loaded on-demand video content from media partners (sort of like the video options presented on airplane seatback screens).


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

harsh said:


> ATSC 3.0 and NEXTGEN TV


one is based on other , but have more in mind
NextGen TV (ATSC 3.0)


> NextGen TV, which is being rolled out market by market in the U.S., is an Internet Protocol (IP) based system, which means it can carry internet content and services alongside the traditional over-the-air broadcast signal.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> one is based on other , but have more in mind


Let there be no confusion (since you seem to fancy confusing things): NEXTGEN TV == ATSC 3.0.

As the article you quoted puts it:


Corporation for Public Broadcasting said:


> The ATSC 3.0 standard, commonly known as "NextGen TV"...


So kind of you to debunk the myths you seek to create.


----------



## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> is an Internet Protocol (IP) based system


while ATSC 3.0 is OTA-centric


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> while ATSC 3.0 is OTA-centric


ATSC 3.0 and NEXTGEN TV are one and the same. No ifs, ands or buts.

The term "NEXTGEN TV" is registered to the Consumer Technology Association.


USPTO trademark registration said:


> The certification mark, as intended to be used by authorized persons, is intended to certify that the goods to which the mark will be applied have been evaluated to meet certain use and performance standards, namely that the goods are ATSC 3.0 standard compliant.


The Internet-based aspects are all part of the standard. Upstream communications via the Internet is one of the oldest surviving elements of the standard.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

IP via OTA ... some of it used for TV content. Moving on.


----------



## renegade (Jul 28, 2011)

It can take its sweet time ... or never happen, for all I care.

We should not have to purchase new equipment to watch TV ... again. We just went through all this a handful of years ago.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

renegade said:


> We should not have to purchase new equipment to watch TV ... again. We just went through all this a handful of years ago.


That's what happens when the FCC gets a taste for the proceeds of bandwidth auctions (and arguably what happens when you demand that an agency funds itself). NEXTGEN TV is the way the industry came up with to give them even more bandwidth to sell and it wasn't practical to try to make it compatible with the DTV system.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

renegade said:


> We should not have to purchase new equipment to watch TV ... again. We just went through all this a handful of years ago.


The previous transition (from Analog to Digital over a decade ago) freed up some channels for use by cellphones and other wireless devices.
Digital allowed the FCC to move channels around with the just ended channel repack. No new equipment needed for most viewers. Just rescan to find the channels.

NEXTGEN is driven by the stations. There is no FCC mandate to change to ATSC 3.0. There is a requirement to continue to support ATSC 1.0 for five years.


----------



## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

ATSC 3.0 aka NextGen is literally within the same spot ATSC 1.0 was at in the late 90s/early 2000's which is early adopter era and very few stations utilizing it.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

AngryManMLS said:


> ATSC 3.0 aka NextGen is literally within the same spot ATSC 1.0 was at in the late 90s/early 2000's which is early adopter era and very few stations utilizing it.


That's clearly NOT the case in several important ways:

DTV came with a government mandate at both the broadcast and the manufacturing level. NEXTGEN TV comes only with permission.

DTV brought a quantum leap in video and audio capabilities versus NTSC. NEXTGEN TV doesn't guarantee much improvement and thus far has been more of a setback for DTV than an advancement of the state-of-the-art.

The sandbox that DTV was introduced in allowed the stations to start up their DTV operations on otherwise unused frequencies while NEXTGEN TV must be introduced on existing frequencies.


----------



## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm talking about where NextGen is in regards to how many markes/stations have it up and running along with hardware to access it.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

AngryManMLS said:


> I'm talking about where NextGen is in regards to how many markes/stations have it up and running along with hardware to access it.


NEXTGEN TV is considerably behind the downwardly revised roll-out schedule and there's virtually no truly affordable consumer hardware available. Turning up a station requires yet another repack of the participating local stations.

By this time in the previous transition, DTV had a handful of subsidized converter boxes available and turning up a station didn't require stations to huddle.

I don't see the parallels.


----------



## renegade (Jul 28, 2011)

James Long said:


> NEXTGEN is driven by the stations. There is no FCC mandate to change to ATSC 3.0. There is a requirement to continue to support ATSC 1.0 for five years.


There _should_ be a requirement to continue to support it _indefinitely_. We had to buy new equipment in order to continue to watch free OTA TV. I'm in no hurry to be forced into new equipment, whether it's five or 20 years from now.

Sinclair Broadcast Group wants to be able to sell your information using 3.0. Conditional Access is part of the scheme, so be prepared to pay for things you have taken for granted as FREE all these years. Also, can someone tell us all about nextgen and DVR service? Also free under the current system, but at what co$t$ under 3.0?


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

The HDHomeRun ATSC3.0 works good, App runs on any smart TV. Two consecutive channels at once (and two ATSC1.0) for a total of 4 per box. My Sony TV also has a ATSC 3.0 tuner.
I suspect that 5 yrs from now, they will shut down 1.0 and make you be connected to the internet to receive their 3.0 broadcasts, and will probably figure out some way to charge you too unless the Govt requires them to remain free to use the airwaves.
I can see then sending a 480p stream, but requiring payment for their HD or 4K stream.

Sinclair MIGHT be wanting ATSC3.0 so they can run their Bally sports channels as subchannels for $$$


----------



## Eva (Nov 8, 2013)

It's about greed. They're taking their clues from Freakbook on how to monitise what you watch so they can serve you the ads.

A neighbour has a new TV with the 3.0 on it and he doesn't have it connected to the web. He says one station pops up a message on the TV that he can access more features if he hooks it up. That station triggering that is a Sinclair one. I suspect as 5G chips get cheaper, they might put those in newer TVs.


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

renegade said:


> There _should_ be a requirement to continue to support it _indefinitely_.


This isn't practical as the channel requirement for DTV is twice that of NEXTGEN TV and having them both live is a huge waste of bandwidth.


> We had to buy new equipment in order to continue to watch free OTA TV. I'm in no hurry to be forced into new equipment, whether it's five or 20 years from now.


Get over it. Technology changes and it changes faster with every decade. Tuning adapters aren't yet available so that's not an option at this time but as the thread suggests, NEXTGEN TV is progressing very, very slowly.


> Sinclair Broadcast Group wants to be able to sell your information using 3.0. Conditional Access is part of the scheme, so be prepared to pay for things you have taken for granted as FREE all these years. Also, can someone tell us all about nextgen and DVR service? Also free under the current system, but at what co$t$ under 3.0?


If you don't connect your tuner to the Internet, there's no back channel. Don't get wadded up reading just the cons of NEXTGEN TV.


----------



## renegade (Jul 28, 2011)

Sinclair Broadcast Group, the evilest of all corporations. All I needed to know. Still a hard pass. Sorry. I'll go on Fakebook before I'll invest in this.


----------

