# DirecTV QuickHits: Tuner Add-On; PC Video Access; PC Device; HR-PRO



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Well we are already pounding the floor.... but we made a quick stop to the DirecTV display....

More details to follow after the semi-private event later tonight:

AM21 - ATSC Tuner Add for the HR21 line
-) The unit is going to be the same width and depth as the HR21. 
-) It is approx 1" high 
-) Same Gloss Black finish, and molding as the HR21
-) USB Connectivity to the HR21
-) Passthrough power supply... so one cord, for both the AM21 and HR21

HDPC20 - PC Add On
-) USB External solution for the PC
-) Acts as a TUNER for your media PC
-) Approximately the size of the modern Western Digital External HardDrive

HR21-PRO
-) It does exist...
-) HR21 bumped up
-) Larger Hard Drives
-) Optical HDMI
-) And a few other bells and whistles.

View HR20/21 content on your PC
-) We can watch PC content on the HR20/21 now... you will be able to do the reverse...


We will get you pictures and more details later tonight....


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> AM21 - ATSC Tuner Add for the HR21 line
> -) The unit is going to be the same width and depth as the HR21.
> -) It is approx 1" high
> -) Same Gloss Black finish, and molding as the HR21
> ...


One major question, with this be available for the H21 as well?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jefbal99 said:


> One major question, with this be available for the H21 as well?


We will ask.......


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The AM21 looks very classy, in black, same look as the HR21 only slimmer. Looks very cool sitting on the HR21.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Chop69 (Aug 11, 2007)

The mythical PC tuner ?!?!?!

I've been a big fan of XP and now Vista media center. My ideal setup is a PC with ~4 tuners and Media Center extenders instead of receivers.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Anyway to ask about Norfolk locals? 

Thanks for the update BTW.


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## markrubi (Oct 12, 2006)

Why don't they just start putting them inside the DVR like the HR20. I have always thought they messed up not having the OTA tuner like the HR20. Maybe they planned this and figured it would be a good source of revenue. THose who want one willl buy it. Most don't use them maybe? I am in the minority as most on this site are when it comes to fully utilizing what our DVR's have to offer.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

They WANT you to buy it so it MAKES them money.


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## bhelton71 (Mar 8, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> The AM21 looks very classy, in black, same look as the HR21 only slimmer. Looks very cool sitting on the HR21.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Just for clarification - did you guys see this stuff 'hooked up' and running ?

And Tom don't forget - the HR21Pro and the Panasonic 150" need have a date night. :lol:


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Well we are already pounding the floor.... but we made a quick stop to the DirecTV display....
> 
> More details to follow after the semi-private event later tonight:
> 
> ...


Is the AM21 including one or two tuners? Is the HR21-PRO going to lack tuners as well?


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

markrubi said:


> Why don't they just start putting them inside the DVR like the HR20. I have always thought they messed up not having the OTA tuner like the HR20. Maybe they planned this and figured it would be a good source of revenue. THose who want one willl buy it. Most don't use them maybe? I am in the minority as most on this site are when it comes to fully utilizing what our DVR's have to offer.


I'd wager the farm that most subscribers don't use OTA and/or don't want OTA as long as they get the basic locals from DirecTV. Even then, there are those who just don't want to deal with OTA. I know many people who have no use for OTA, my parents included who would need a fairly large outdoor antenna to get OTA where they live.

It has been noted on several occasions that the OTA solution for the HR21 was planned before the HR21's release. They were designed in tandem knowing that not everyone would want or need OTA.


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## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

markrubi said:


> Why don't they just start putting them inside the DVR like the HR20. I have always thought they messed up not having the OTA tuner like the HR20. Maybe they planned this and figured it would be a good source of revenue. THose who want one willl buy it. Most don't use them maybe? I am in the minority as most on this site are when it comes to fully utilizing what our DVR's have to offer.


They intend to get most markets covered with HD LIL in the next year or so, so they didn't want to add the cost for those that don't or won't need it.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Any idea if the new OTA tuner will be an upgrade to what's in the HR20?


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Awesome stuff Earl. Thanks for the updates.


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## itguy05 (Oct 24, 2007)

Mac support for the remote viewing, please. Many of us won't touch anything MS with a 1,000,000 foot pole.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

gregjones said:


> Is the AM21 including one or two tuners? Is the HR21-PRO going to lack tuners as well?


2 tuners and the previous info on the pro indicated no built-in OTA


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## mjbehren (Nov 21, 2006)

Cool stuff, will the HDPC20 be Access Card based, or based off of an existing device in your setup?


Mb


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

+1 



itguy05 said:


> Mac support for the remote viewing, please. Many of us won't touch anything MS with a 1,000,000 foot pole.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> HDPC20 - PC Add On
> -) USB External solution for the PC
> -) Acts as a TUNER for your media PC
> -) Approximately the size of the modern Western Digital External HardDrive
> ...


These are 2 things I'm excited about.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

A great list of information so far....looking forward to the photos...

Looking forward to hearing about any new channels, services, public release dates for the current beta services (DOD, Remote Booking etc.)...


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

If I'm thinking it through correctly, it wouldn't need to be access card based, because the USB port would effectively just be another output yes?

EDIT: Actually no, nevermind. USB from your PC, then what, networked? Then the external device takes one of the HRs outputs physically, like a Slingbox? If it's HD, does it have HDMI and Component?



mjbehren said:


> Cool stuff, will the HDPC20 be Access Card based, or based off of an existing device in your setup?
> 
> Mb


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

gregjones said:


> Is the AM21 including one or two tuners? Is the HR21-PRO going to lack tuners as well?


Dual tuner... and 99% sure the HR21-Pro will not have ATSC...
But I will verify that when we go back tonight.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> AM21 - ATSC Tuner Add for the HR21 line
> -) It is approx 1" high


As thin as that is, not enough height in my AV rack :nono2: to even squeeze that in. Guess I'll stick with the HR20 then as planned.



Earl Bonovich said:


> HR21-PRO
> -) It does exist...
> -) HR21 bumped up
> -) Larger Hard Drives
> ...


Is this going to be the glossy black or the matte black? OTA? release date? price? .

[EDIT: Oops... Earl answered one of these as I was typing]


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mjbehren said:


> Cool stuff, will the HDPC20 be Access Card based, or based off of an existing device in your setup?
> 
> Mb


Access Card based.... It is it's own receiver, it will work independent of any other DirecTV receiver.


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## watchmy_ss (Mar 18, 2007)

I am real interested in the HDPC20. I would love to add this to my Vista Media Center.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I'd love integration with Windows Media Center. There's where I access all my music from.

Nice stuff!

Could you get into the Gates keynote?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

SledgeHammer said:


> As thin as that is, not enough height in my AV rack :nono2: to even squeeze that in. Guess I'll stick with the HR20 then as planned.
> 
> Is this going to be the glossy black or the matte black? OTA? release date? price? .
> 
> [EDIT: Oops... earl answered one of these as I was typing]


Glossy Black...
Pretty sure no ATSC
Release Date: Soon, hopefully will get a tighet tight frame tonight.
Price.... Hopefully we can get the ball park later tonight as well.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Ah ok thanks.



Earl Bonovich said:


> Access Card based.... It is it's own receiver, it will work independent of any other DirecTV receiver.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bhelton71 said:


> Just for clarification - did you guys see this stuff 'hooked up' and running ?


Hooked up and running... most of them.
I will have to double check the AM21 to make sure, but I do know it is functional and not just a shell box.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

If you could ask, (or answer if you know), how many tuners are on the HDPC and is there a limit to how many you can add to Windows.

That is very awesome, I actually quite like the Media Center format and would love to have that as an alternative.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

itguy05 said:


> Mac support for the remote viewing, please. Many of us won't touch anything MS with a 1,000,000 foot pole.


+2


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

AM21 worst case for those that have limited shelf space..... what's the distance limitation? I'm assuming whatever the USB standard limitations are?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bakerfall said:


> If you could ask, (or answer if you know), how many tuners are on the HDPC and is there a limit to how many you can add to Windows.
> 
> That is very awesome, I actually quite like the Media Center format and would love to have that as an alternative.


Two Tuner... SWM compatible.
I do not know if you can have more then one on a PC, I will ask later on.

We will try to get a scanned PDF of the information sheet ASAP.


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## mjbehren (Nov 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Access Card based.... It is it's own receiver, it will work independent of any other DirecTV receiver.


Very cool. Thanks!

Just a PC interface, or does it have multiple active outputs such as our HR2x's have now?

Mb


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Glossy Black...
> Pretty sure no ATSC
> Release Date: Soon, hopefully will get a tighet tight frame tonight.
> Price.... Hopefully we can get the ball park later tonight as well.


...and if they need testers..... 

Love to see the back panel on this thing...


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

itguy05 said:


> Mac support for the remote viewing, please. Many of us won't touch anything MS with a 1,000,000 foot pole.


+3


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

What kind of PC are they hooking this up to, brand, model?
What is required on the PC side?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mjbehren said:


> Very cool. Thanks!
> 
> Just a PC interface, or does it have multiple active outputs such as our HR2x's have now?
> 
> Mb


Purely PC Based.


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> HDPC20 - PC Add On
> -) USB External solution for the PC
> -) Acts as a TUNER for your media PC
> -) Approximately the size of the modern Western Digital External HardDrive


This is exciting stuff ........

Will we be able to use 3rd party pvr software and will the box be ir controllable?

Will they ever make a pure internal card?

Darn, now I have to quit experimenting with mythbuntu and BTV until this is out.


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## breevesdc (Aug 14, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> HDPC20 - PC Add On
> -) USB External solution for the PC
> -) Acts as a TUNER for your media PC
> -) Approximately the size of the modern Western Digital External HardDrive


Thanks Earl. This is great stuff.

Does this mean that one could put a Media Center PC in his entertainment room and use this device to watch/record DirecTV content? Does it have dual tuners or would you need two HDPC20's for dual tuner support?

An interesting possibility... if DirecTV begins offerring Media Center support, you will effectively have MRV. As I understand it, the XBOX 360 allows you to connect with your Media Center PC and watch recorded shows. I think you can also watch live TV through the tuner in your Media Center PC (if one is available).

I know that MRV is coming for the HR20. But it's interesting that there may be other MRV options out there via HTPCs.

Brian


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## jared52 (Sep 24, 2007)

Will the tuner work on a Mac? Is it HD (I assume so since HD is in the model name)?

What about Huntsville, AL locals in HD. Looks like Dish got them today so hopefully very soon for D* or I may be switching.


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> AM21 - ATSC Tuner Add for the HR21 line
> -) The unit is going to be the same width and depth as the HR21.
> -) It is approx 1" high
> -) Same Gloss Black finish, and molding as the HR21
> ...


I cannot wait for this because I just got my HR21 on Friday and I miss the OTA that the HR20 in the other room has. I do like it though that the HR21 is alot quiter that my HR20.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Two Tuner... SWM compatible.
> I do not know if you can have more then one on a PC, I will ask later on.
> 
> We will try to get a scanned PDF of the information sheet ASAP.


Me... Want... Need... Me... Want... Need... (passes out on desk).

Must... know... when...

hmmm... IF MSFT had a brain... they'd enable DVD streaming over Xbox360 extender...

Then I could/would have a master PC with Blu-Ray, OTA, DirecTV tuner, MP3s, DivX, Pictures, etc etc etc and 3 Xbox 360 extenders... OHHHH the possibilities...

So... Close... Must.. Hold... Out... for... details...


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

breevesdc said:


> Thanks Earl. This is great stuff.
> 
> Does this mean that one could put a Media Center PC in his entertainment room and use this device to watch/record DirecTV content? Does it have dual tuners or would you need two HDPC20's for dual tuner support?
> 
> ...


The 360 functions as a media center extender (there are others as well) and it effectively functions as your set top box. I've played with just with basic cable and it's pretty cool. I'd definitely buy one.


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## digitalfreak (Nov 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Two Tuner... SWM compatible.
> I do not know if you can have more then one on a PC, I will ask later on.
> 
> We will try to get a scanned PDF of the information sheet ASAP.


Could you check and see if it will be available for anyone to purchase/lease, or will it be a solution only available via OEM PCs (like the cable OCUR tuners)?

Also, any ballpark release dates or pricing?

Thanks for the info!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

BudShark said:


> Me... Want... Need... Me... Want... Need... (passes out on desk).
> 
> Must... know... when...
> 
> ...


The tuner will communicate with an XBOX360... so basically you will now have a Dual Tuner for DirecTV for your XBOX360


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

Earl - 

Any chance you can ask about if this will require an OEM box or can I put it onto my current Vista Media Center ( where I am forced to watch DirecTV's HD channels via S-video)

Currently using 2 H20s and 2 OTA tuners.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

I'm just curious as to why this add on tuner is as big as the HR21 when the HR20 has the ATSC tuners built in ( I can't remember if the HR20 has two or one tuner).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

rgreenpc said:


> Earl -
> 
> Any chance you can ask about if this will require an OEM box or can I put it onto my current Vista Media Center ( where I am forced to watch DirecTV's HD channels via S-video)
> 
> Currently using 2 H20s and 2 OTA tuners.


It looks to be setup to be sold on it's own... but we will check


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

BubblePuppy said:


> I'm just curious as to why this add on tuner is as big as the HR21 when the HR20 has the ATSC tuners built in ( I can't remember if the HR20 has two or one tuner).


HR20 is going away... sooner than later.

Edit - nevermind. You are talking about size and not "value"


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

BubblePuppy said:


> I'm just curious as to why this add on tuner is as big as the HR21 when the HR20 has the ATSC tuners built in ( I can't remember if the HR20 has two or one tuner).


The HR20 has two tuners.

As for why?

Sizing on a rack/av components.

It being the same size, it just blends visually better...
And allows a lighter component to still be stacked on top of it (like a DVD player or something of that nature)

Or to easily be mounted in a rack as it is not larger then 1U... with some of the same type of mounting equipment out there for the existing products.


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## breevesdc (Aug 14, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The tuner will communicate with an XBOX360... so basically you will now have a Dual Tuner for DirecTV for your XBOX360


EDIT:
Sorry! I didn't see that someone else already asked this question and Earl already answered it.
END EDIT

So the HDPC020 has two tuners inside and (presumably) 2 SAT-IN connections?

Brian


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

On the services side....new channels et al....will there be anything announced on that?


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

Earl - you have no idea how happy you have made me as many of us Vista people have been crying and many were ready to leave for HR21s.

I love VISTA Media Center but I can't take much more of the S-Video


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Earl,

Thanks for the updates! Can't wait to see pics/docs...


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

Any words on MRV, please?

If we can view programs on PC, why can't we view them on a different HR20 or HR21? We are so close. Why not just travel the last mile.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Spanky_Partain said:


> What kind of PC are they hooking this up to, brand, model?
> What is required on the PC side?


Can we get this info?


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## dragonbait (Jan 20, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The tuner will communicate with an XBOX360... so basically you will now have a Dual Tuner for DirecTV for your XBOX360


Wow. I want.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

> AM21 - ATSC Tuner Add for the HR21 line


Awesome! Very nice implementation. To DirecTV and all the "we must have details now" crowd... it pays to wait for things to be fully baked!


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## Mavrick (Feb 1, 2006)

Dusty said:


> Any words on MRV, please?
> 
> If we can view programs on PC, why can't we view them on a different HR20 or HR21? We are so close. Why not just travel the last mile.


Good question for if this were to be enabled the OTA tuner on the HR21 would not be as big a deal for me because I could record my ota programs on the HR20 and my sat programs on the HR21 and watch them on either box.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

I didn't see the tuner solution, but I looked at the MediaShare to PC extensively. You could select which DVR you were connected to. You could browse the Playlist and choose a program. Once the program started, you could take the mouse and click on the bar to any point in the program.

This is a streaming solution only.

Earl, where was the HDPC20?


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

markrubi said:


> Why don't they just start putting them inside the DVR like the HR20. I have always thought they messed up not having the OTA tuner like the HR20. Maybe they planned this and figured it would be a good source of revenue. THose who want one willl buy it. Most don't use them maybe? I am in the minority as most on this site are when it comes to fully utilizing what our DVR's have to offer.


The reasoning is, most people don't want or need OTA. Therefore putting the tuners inside every HR21 costs much more than offering it as an add-on feature.

There is no gospel that says DirecTV or anyone else must have digital OTA capability on their satellite HD receivers.

That said, I would like them to put their money where their mouth is and lower the price of the HR21 as long as it is cheaper to make now, and particularly (I assume) because they will be making money on the customers who want this device badly enough to pay for one.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The tuner will communicate with an XBOX360... so basically you will now have a Dual Tuner for DirecTV for your XBOX360


unless there has been a dramatic shift in how this works, that's not exactly correct. The tuner must be hooked up to a media center PC, the 360 is simply an extender. In other words, you can't just hook the tuner up to the 360 and have it work.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

David Ortiz said:


> I didn't see the tuner solution, but I looked at the MediaShare to PC extensively. You could select which DVR you were connected to. You could browse the Playlist and choose a program. Once the program started, you could take the mouse and click on the bar to any point in the program.
> 
> This is a streaming solution only.
> 
> Earl, where was the HDPC20?


If they are gonna go that far, you might as well allow downloading.


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

bakerfall said:


> unless there has been a dramatic shift in how this works, that's not exactly correct. The tuner must be hooked up to a media center PC, the 360 is simply an extender. In other words, you can't just hook the tuner up to the 360 and have it work.


I am sure what he means to say as it will allow a 360 to control it VIA Media Center.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

Any words on MRV?

If we can view programs on PC, why not on a different HR20/21?


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## airedale (Aug 8, 2007)

So what is the timeline for the HDPC device? We have been waiting since the 2005 CES for something like this from D*!

It is nice to see you have seen a functioning unit :grin:


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## Dirk (Sep 15, 2007)

Can't wait to see the pictures.


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## Steveo369 (Dec 12, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> HDPC20 - PC Add On
> -) USB External solution for the PC
> -) Acts as a TUNER for your media PC
> -) Approximately the size of the modern Western Digital External HardDrive


This is GREAT news. I used a Media Center 2005 PC for ~2 years using analog cable. The interface and flexibility of using a PC in this way were exceptional. I more or less gave up on this approach when moving over to HD with Comcast, and *had* to use their cable box. There were solutions (Vista + cablecard tuners) to getting HD on the Media Center PC, but it was still very limited. I switched to Directv about 2 months ago due to their better HD line up and cost. I'd LOVE to move to a Vista Media Center whole-home solution using Directv tuners, a main Vista Media PC and several extenders! Centralized DVR storage, MRV, etc. !!! Great to see that Directv is working toward this goal!!!:grin:


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

rgreenpc said:


> I am sure what he means to say as it will allow a 360 to control it VIA Media Center.


That will require an update on the 360 or an on-the-fly transcode of the video stream from MPEG-4 on the Media Center PC. MPEG-4 is not yet supported in the Xbox extender software. (It is supported on some third-party extenders right now.)


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> MPEG-4 is not yet supported in the Xbox extender software. (It is supported on some third-party extenders right now.)


Wasn't H.264 included in the Fall Update for the XBox360 Dashboard? (I don't do much media streaming from the PC side and don't recall).


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

My goal -
2 - HD OTA Tuners
4 - DirecTV HDPC20s

Feeding 3 Extenders around the house via Gigabit LAN.
Would love the VOD, etc for D* but not by any means a showstopper.


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

LameLefty said:


> Wasn't H.264 included in the Fall Update for the XBox360 Dashboard? (I don't do much media streaming from the PC side and don't recall).


Yes but it doesn't work as a Media Center Extender... only for playing files directly
from the network.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

rgreenpc said:


> I am sure what he means to say as it will allow a 360 to control it VIA Media Center.


I think so, I just wanted to clear it up for those that don't know a ton about media center.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Dusty said:


> Any words on MRV?
> 
> If we can view programs on PC, why not on a different HR20/21?


I agree. Many of us have no interest in a Media Center PC implementation. I personally, would be glad to pay for a few more HR20s or HR21s with MRV though.

MRV solves a lot of problems (storage space, conflicts on satellite tuners, being able to function with only on DVR having OTA, etc.). These are a lot of the problems that the larger subscriber base have raised as concerns.

While I will not begrudge anyone the joy of a new offering for their Media Center PC, I think DirecTV is missing the point here. How do they think they will effectively sell a Media Center solution when so many are having difficulties plugging in the ethernet cable for their HR20?


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

gregjones said:


> I agree. Many of us have no interest in a Media Center PC implementation. I personally, would be glad to pay for a few more HR20s or HR21s with MRV though.
> 
> MRV solves a lot of problems (storage space, conflicts on satellite tuners, being able to function with only on DVR having OTA, etc.). These are a lot of the problems that the larger subscriber base have raised as concerns.
> 
> While I will not begrudge anyone the joy of a new offering for their Media Center PC, I think DirecTV is missing the point here. How do they think they will effectively sell a Media Center solution when so many are having difficulties plugging in the ethernet cable for their HR20?


Don't get me wrong, while I'm very interested in the media center components, MRV is something I want immediately. I would replace the remainder of my boxes with HR20/21 if this was available. It would be huge.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

gregjones said:


> I agree. Many of us have no interest in a Media Center PC implementation. I personally, would be glad to pay for a few more HR20s or HR21s with MRV though.
> 
> MRV solves a lot of problems (storage space, conflicts on satellite tuners, being able to function with only on DVR having OTA, etc.). These are a lot of the problems that the larger subscriber base have raised as concerns.
> 
> While I will not begrudge anyone the joy of a new offering for their Media Center PC, I think DirecTV is missing the point here. How do they think they will effectively sell a Media Center solution when so many are having difficulties plugging in the ethernet cable for their HR20?


I would hope someone would not buy something they didn't understand, but I'm sure many will. Only to find out their computer isn't powerful enough to use it. lol.

I will say that hooking up a plug-n-play device to an already working and networked machine is easier for most people. The HR20 can seem cryptic if you aren't used to terminology.

For me, this would be huge. No need to put H21's everywhere, I can just put HD mediacenter extenders.


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## mtbmike (Jan 7, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It looks to be setup to be sold on it's own... but we will check


 This is the primary question for many of us who have been waiting for this solution to come to market. For a variety of reasons the CableCard devices are only available as part of a complete OEM system. I'll be getting at least 2 of these for my Media Center if they are available on their own.


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## iceturkee (Apr 1, 2007)

Dusty said:


> Any words on MRV, please?
> 
> If we can view programs on PC, why can't we view them on a different HR20 or HR21? We are so close. Why not just travel the last mile.


i would be interested in knowing the same thing myself!


----------



## exchguy (Jan 10, 2007)

Earl - any news of price drops for the HR20s? Would be nice to see a drop below the $299 retail.


----------



## jared52 (Sep 24, 2007)

Earl,

You may have missed it but there are some of us waiting to hear if this will work on a Mac.

Thanks


----------



## SF_Wolverine (Oct 28, 2007)

Any word on moving DoD past BETA? And is there any buzz about maybe Howard Stern's On Demand Channel being included? Thanks.


----------



## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Screw OTA... find out some more about this PC tuner, is this the one we've been waiting for (the Microsoft announcment one)?

- Is this a MCE product, or just a "capture" product?
- Is this an HD solution? Doubtful as it stands now since MCE only does HD using OTA/ATSC (they'd have to be working with MS to make it work, which I hope is true)

Right now I use (2) R11's with S-Video to Media Center, I'd replace it with 2 of these in a second.

Thanks!


----------



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Well, this PC solution *will* allow the more ingenous among us to build a *GOOD* DVR and one that has DLB to boot .


----------



## Pinion413 (Oct 21, 2007)

<--- Drooling uncontrollably.

Thanks for the info Earl. 

Can't wait to see the more in-depth stuff later.


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

gregjones said:


> While I will not begrudge anyone the joy of a new offering for their Media Center PC, I think DirecTV is missing the point here. How do they think they will effectively sell a Media Center solution when so many are having difficulties plugging in the ethernet cable for their HR20?


Media Center's installed user base grows each day... most new PCs have it installed... just never used. Its a good market for D* to tap.

As far as the issues with ethernet, these people aren't the ones who would be adding this... if it were added, it would be a service call.

This product of course is a boon for the "tinker-ers" amongst us. I can't wait to see just how many I can use... maybe I will make a D* tuner farm


----------



## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

ebockelman said:


> That will require an update on the 360 or an on-the-fly transcode of the video stream from MPEG-4 on the Media Center PC. MPEG-4 is not yet supported in the Xbox extender software. (It is supported on some third-party extenders right now.)


That's true, it's current HD capabilities are OTA, and it is stored as MPEG-2 which is the same as broadcast ATSC, so they do have this capablity already (probably in the tuner hardware) and MS is required to store it in this "DVR-MS" format so they can put their CMS and DRM on the files if need be.


----------



## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> I'd love integration with Windows Media Center. There's where I access all my music from.
> 
> Nice stuff!
> 
> Could you get into the Gates keynote?


See it here: http://www.microsoft.com/ces/


----------



## themorg (Jul 13, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> HR21-PRO
> -) It does exist...
> -) HR21 bumped up
> -) Larger Hard Drives
> ...


Earl,

We already have 2 HR20-700s, and do not need OTA. Will we be able to call customer service and get replacements for our current boxes, since they are leased anyway? We would welcome the additional recording space, if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get.

Thanks for the updates!!! Keep 'em coming.


----------



## BarryManilow (Nov 30, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> More details to follow after the semi-private event later tonight:
> 
> AM21 - ATSC Tuner Add for the HR21 line
> 
> ...


Any word on price points for any or all of the above? I assume the ability to View HR20/21 content on your PC is just a software upgrade?

I'll take one of each please!!!


----------



## chrisexv6 (Sep 14, 2002)

Yeah price point for the PC "card" especially........I can see a Windows media Center box thats truly a center........power every TV in your house off of multiple HDPC20's. MRV wont be required because all the content would be on the at one box........would need a hefty CPU though.


----------



## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Two Tuner... SWM compatible.
> I do not know if you can have more then one on a PC, I will ask later on.
> 
> We will try to get a scanned PDF of the information sheet ASAP.


The limit is likely to be the same as is currently imposed by Microsoft...

(2) OTA (HD) tuners limit
(2) "other" tuners (right now, NTSC) limit


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## Montyward (Aug 16, 2006)

xzi said:


> The limit is likely to be the same as is currently imposed by Microsoft...
> 
> (2) OTA (HD) tuners limit
> (2) "other" tuners (right now, NTSC) limit


And there are relatively easy "hacks" to increase that limit.


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## ebockelman (Aug 16, 2006)

Montyward said:


> And there are relatively easy "hacks" to increase that limit.


I haven't seen any for CableCard. Like CableCard, control of these tuners may be so restricted that the limit may not be lifted by the tuner hacks. (I hope not.)


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

ebockelman said:


> I haven't seen any for CableCard. Like CableCard, control of these tuners may be so restricted that the limit may not be lifted by the tuner hacks. (I hope not.)


Thats when you build a farm


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

xzi said:


> The limit is likely to be the same as is currently imposed by Microsoft...
> 
> (2) OTA (HD) tuners limit
> (2) "other" tuners (right now, NTSC) limit


That's still 4 tuners, which is more than sufficient.


----------



## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

xzi said:


> Screw OTA... find out some more about this PC tuner, is this the one we've been waiting for (the Microsoft announcment one)?
> 
> - Is this a MCE product, or just a "capture" product?
> - Is this an HD solution? Doubtful as it stands now since MCE only does HD using OTA/ATSC (they'd have to be working with MS to make it work, which I hope is true)


To the first part of your question, we know that D* has specifically been working with MS, so I think it will work with both MS and 3rd party, but geared toward MS.

To the 2nd part, that isn't true. Cable Card tuners for MCE have been around for about a year and that adds all digital cable and HD channels into MCE. This would do the same thing for D*.


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## robertogag (Sep 20, 2007)

Earl:

Sice we will be able to "View HR20/21 content on the PC"
and we can do the reverse...

Will we be able to see the content of one HR20 on another HR20?
I have one in my mediaroom and in my bedroom and I really, really, really wish I could share content (wife sometimes wants to go bed and finish the movie there, and I have to see it using the coax SD mode)


----------



## monetnj (Sep 28, 2004)

Add me to the list of those interested in the mac support. Especially of the remote viewing of HR20/21 content. I assume this would work similar to a slingbox in that I would be able to view content from on the road, not just from a computer on the same internal network?


----------



## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

rgreenpc said:


> Media Center's installed user base grows each day... most new PCs have it installed... just never used. Its a good market for D* to tap.
> 
> As far as the issues with ethernet, these people aren't the ones who would be adding this... if it were added, it would be a service call.
> 
> This product of course is a boon for the "tinker-ers" amongst us. I can't wait to see just how many I can use... maybe I will make a D* tuner farm


I have built a number of HTPC systems. I would argue that the Windows software isn't even the best of the solutions. I have a number of machines at home, including a CentOS installation with Xen running five domU instances. I am well beyond the tinkering stage.

I cannot see the business model where this would be a good selling point. The majority of Media Center installations with good penetration are in high-density residences (like dorms) with analog cable universally available.

MRV would be a much more consumer-visible business model with a much larger user base. DirecTV is going to be hard-pressed to find a big enough market (even at bleeding-edge tinkerer prices) to justify this as more profitable than MRV.


----------



## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

bakerfall said:


> To the first part of your question, we know that D* has specifically been working with MS, so I think it will work with both MS and 3rd party, but geared toward MS.
> 
> To the 2nd part, that isn't true. Cable Card tuners for MCE have been around for about a year and that adds all digital cable and HD channels into MCE. This would do the same thing for D*.


That true, I forgot about CableCard (mostly because so did everyone else, including the OEMs unfortunately). It's why I jumped ship to D* in the first place so I hope you're right.


----------



## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

markrubi said:


> Why don't they just start putting them inside the DVR like the HR20. I have always thought they messed up not having the OTA tuner like the HR20. Maybe they planned this and figured it would be a good source of revenue. THose who want one willl buy it. Most don't use them maybe? I am in the minority as most on this site are when it comes to fully utilizing what our DVR's have to offer.


Likely, heat issues play a part, and cost issues....this is another example of ~~a la carte~~....that is, few people who have directv use an off-air antenna, so why should they include the dual digital tuner in a box, if what...1/10 use it?

Perhaps 1/2 of >>US<< use it, but John Average doesn't. So why roll it into a box, using more electricity, generating more heat, potentially causing circuit problems, making for more expensive units, and complicating the system...all for 1 person in 10?

BTW, I'll bet it's a better tuner anyway. Think on that! It's a unit built with the OTA as its only concern..similar to the difference between a CD player component, and a built-together CD/FM/AM/dual tape/amplifier unit. I'd expect it to be superior to the built-in tuners.


----------



## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

gregjones said:


> I have built a number of HTPC systems. I would argue that the Windows software isn't even the best of the solutions. I have a number of machines at home, including a CentOS installation with Xen running five domU instances. I am well beyond the tinkering stage.
> 
> I cannot see the business model where this would be a good selling point. The majority of Media Center installations with good penetration are in high-density residences (like dorms) with analog cable universally available.
> 
> MRV would be a much more consumer-visible business model with a much larger user base. DirecTV is going to be hard-pressed to find a big enough market (even at bleeding-edge tinkerer prices) to justify this as more profitable than MRV.


No doubt a set-top box MRV setup will be far more popular than a Windows Media Center setup. Doesn't mean Windows Media Center isn't a FAR more polished and capable implementation, though (it is). It's a power user setup that is also oddly easy to setup and use--a rarity these days. And considering almost every PC you buy just happens to come with Windows, and the "set-top box" in this case is the wildly popular XBOX360, well that's a nice pre-existing installation market to leverage over "CentOS installation with Xen running five domU instances" which has NO set-top box capability to speak of, don't you think?

It's a great move by D* if it's true. They may be able to give us what CableCard was SUPPOSED to two years ago and never could deliver... that woudl be huge.


----------



## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

gregjones said:


> I have built a number of HTPC systems. I would argue that the Windows software isn't even the best of the solutions. I have a number of machines at home, including a CentOS installation with Xen running five domU instances. I am well beyond the tinkering stage.
> 
> I cannot see the business model where this would be a good selling point. The majority of Media Center installations with good penetration are in high-density residences (like dorms) with analog cable universally available.
> 
> MRV would be a much more consumer-visible business model with a much larger user base. DirecTV is going to be hard-pressed to find a big enough market (even at bleeding-edge tinkerer prices) to justify this as more profitable than MRV.


a.) MRV isn't a business model, it's a feature to be added to an existing receiver. MRV isn't a box, it isn't revenue generating (beyond people like me who would buy more HR2X boxes if it was available.)

b.) the MCE add-on both puts DirecTV into the MCE niche market, and gives everyday users an alternative to the DirecTV receivers. Just like there are very loyal Tivo users, DirecTV users, etc. there are those that love MCE. This would tap into that, go look at http://thegreenbutton.com/ if you don't believe me. They are already talking about this thread.

I don't think that it's mutually exclusive, I would love to have both MRV with my HR's and the ability to add D* channels (and HD) to my Media Center for flexible viewing (you can very easily take MCE recordings off and convert them to any format you want). There is already software that can take a DVR-MS recording, automatically edit out the commercials and convert it to pretty much any format you want. If I could do these things with my equipment, I probably would stop downloading "illegal" rips whenever I wanted to put something on my iPod or laptop


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## BarryManilow (Nov 30, 2007)

I can see it now ... 

My friends come over, they see the setup and say, "Wow, so you've got everything (video games, TV, DVR, music, pictures, videos) available at all times at any location, be it your TV or your PC? You mean you can use your Xbox for games, TV, music, and movies? You can watch DVR'd TV shows on your computer?" They will then proceed to ask if I have a phone book so they can call and cancel their cable service.


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## PurdueGradMem (Sep 9, 2006)

With the ability to view HR20/HR21 content on a PC, can viewing it on another HR20/HR21 be that hard or far away? Seems pretty close to MRV to me. The main obsticle as I understood was the HR20 acting a a server. With this information that seems to no longer be a concern.


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

themorg said:


> Earl,
> 
> We already have 2 HR20-700s, and do not need OTA. Will we be able to call customer service and get replacements for our current boxes, since they are leased anyway? We would welcome the additional recording space, if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get.


That's why the HR20 has the eSATA capability. If all you need is extra recording space, just connect an eSATA hard drive to it. The HR21 Pro will probably cost a whole lot more than an eSATA HDD.


----------



## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

BarryManilow said:


> I can see it now ...
> 
> My friends come over, they see the setup and say, "Wow, so you've got everything (video games, TV, DVR, music, pictures, videos) available at all times at any location, be it your TV or your PC? You mean you can use your Xbox for games, TV, music, and movies? You can watch DVR'd TV shows on your computer?" They will then proceed to ask if I have a phone book so they can call and cancel their cable service.


One thing that might actually get me away from DirecTV is Mediaroom (MS IPTV). It's got a long way to go, not to mention the fact that there are no providers in my area, but it is a sweet looking product. MS talked about it a lot in the keynote last night. It is essentially exactly what you are talking about, without a PC.

Check out the demo:
http://www.microsoftmediaroom.com/


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

BarryManilow said:


> I can see it now ...
> 
> My friends come over, they see the setup and say, "Wow, so you've got everything (video games, TV, DVR, music, pictures, videos) available at all times at any location, be it your TV or your PC? You mean you can use your Xbox for games, TV, music, and movies? You can watch DVR'd TV shows on your computer?" They will then proceed to ask if I have a phone book so they can call and cancel their cable service.


Yup, I'm doing it now with Media Center... and you just keep adding XBOX360s, not receivers (and fees!). The *ONLY* missing element is DirecTV HD... but for now, DirecTV SD is working great in the setup and I'm ready to snatch these up when they appear to fill that last gap.

And actually, for now, I'm getting HD OTA for now and that's doing well in the meantime.

As a final note, I'm not watching commercials either thanks to DVRMSToolBox, either


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

Guys, there is no reason they can't be doing /both/ MRV and the USB tuner. It's not like the same people will be working on both, or that doing Media Center integration would use the same dev team that MRV would.

These are parallel paths, not serial.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

xzi said:


> Yup, I'm doing it now with Media Center... and you just keep adding XBOX360s, not receivers (and fees!). The *ONLY* missing element is DirecTV HD... but for now, DirecTV SD is working great in the setup and I'm ready to snatch these up when they appear to fill that last gap.
> 
> And actually, for now, I'm getting HD OTA for now and that's doing well in the meantime.
> 
> As a final note, I'm not watching commercials either thanks to DVRMSToolBox, either


Are you running concurrent 360s as extenders? What kind of PC hardware are you using?


----------



## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

I just realized something that may make some people *hit their pants.

D* HDPC + this = MPEG4 DirecTivo


----------



## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

exchguy said:


> Earl - any news of price drops for the HR20s? Would be nice to see a drop below the $299 retail.


 You can find plenty on eBay for as low as $189 (new, sealed carton, complete).


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

bakerfall said:


> Are you running concurrent 360s as extenders? What kind of PC hardware are you using?


Yup, I use and XBOX360 Elite in my living room, and 360s in the bedrooms. I was doing it all just fine with an "older" P4-3GHz Sony VAIO using XP. When I upgraded to Vista, I upgraded the PC too to a new Dell Inspiron 530, but reused all the old tuners.

I have a complete write up of my setup at http://www.xzi.com/my-rig/


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

bakerfall said:


> I just realized something that may make some people *hit their pants.
> 
> D* HDPC + this = MPEG4 DirecTivo


I wouldn't put it past MS to require the device to be an MCE-only solution, though. We'll see.


----------



## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

bakerfall said:


> I just realized something that may make some people *hit their pants.
> 
> ... DirecTivo


Depends, there are a lot of things we don't know yet...I'm with you on the hope....bug after the CableCard nightmare...reserving judgment until the specs are all out.


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

xzi said:


> Yup, I use and XBOX360 Elite in my living room, and 360s in the bedrooms. I was doing it all just fine with an "older" P4-3GHz Sony VAIO using XP. When I upgraded to Vista, I upgraded the PC too to a new Dell Inspiron 530, but reused all the old tuners.


Makes sense, the PC only points to the content, the xbox decodes it. In fact, with all extenders you can use a very very low end PC to serve the content.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

PurdueGradMem said:


> With the ability to view HR20/HR21 content on a PC, can viewing it on another HR20/HR21 be that hard or far away? Seems pretty close to MRV to me. The main obsticle as I understood was the HR20 acting a a server. With this information that seems to no longer be a concern.


There must be some dangling issue related to MRV from STB to STB, as they've essentially announced all related/required capabilities to support it.

Also the note about it being a streaming solution holds hope that the H2Xs can serve as clients too!


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Tybio said:


> Makes sense, the PC only points to the content, the xbox decodes it. In fact, with all extenders you can use a very very low end PC to serve the content.


Absolutely right... if you're doing HD stuff, the hard drive speed and network speeds become more important than CPU speed. Vista alone needs a ton of RAM, but as far as video encoding and decoding goes, encoding is handled by the capture hardware (MS actually requires hardware-encoder tuners) and decoding is done by the XBOXs


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

Thaedron said:


> There must be some dangling issue related to MRV from STB to STB, as they've essentially announced all related/required capabilities to support it.
> 
> Also the note about it being a streaming solution holds hope that the H2Xs can serve as clients too!


Maybe this is why they acquired ReplayTV... My old ReplayTVs did MRV pretty seemlessly, even with photos (natively) and videos (using 3-rd party software) and this was years ago, so it's safe to say they know a thing or two about it.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

If I could put the Tivo software on a PC and use these PC tuners to get back DLB and OTA, I'd for shizzle go for that solution. I dunno how the PC version is going to get reliable guide data though.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Well we are already pounding the floor.... but we made a quick stop to the DirecTV display....
> 
> More details to follow after the semi-private event later tonight:
> 
> ...


I'm still catching up on the thread, so I don't know if this was asked/answered already, but does the AM21 also support Clear QAM?

Also, any LEDs on the front of the unit? (The pictures will show this later, for sure... just curious now, though!) 

Thanks.


----------



## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> If I could put the Tivo software on a PC and use these PC tuners to get back DLB and OTA, I'd for shizzle go for that solution. I dunno how the PC version is going to get reliable guide data though.


I'm sure the same way the old series-2's could, over the Internet.


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Drew2k said:


> I'm still catching up on the thread, so I don't know if this was asked/answered already, but does the AM21 also support Clear QAM?
> 
> Also, any LEDs on the front of the unit? (The pictures will show this later, for sure... just curious now, though!)
> 
> Thanks.


I am sure there are a few dozen super bright 1 watt blue LEDS as the current boxes are not quite bright enough to read by.


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## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

THanks for the update... don't need media center, but would love to try out ATSC on my HR21 one day!


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> I'm still catching up on the thread, so I don't know if this was asked/answered already, but does the AM21 also support Clear QAM?
> 
> Also, any LEDs on the front of the unit? (The pictures will show this later, for sure... just curious now, though!)
> 
> Thanks.


Red lights that go back and forth like KITT or a Cylon would be cool. Hmmm...Is KITT a Cylon? :scratch:


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## cover (Feb 11, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> View HR20/21 content on your PC
> -) We can watch PC content on the HR20/21 now... you will be able to do the reverse...


Will this be limited to LAN or would it work remotely? If I could watch my HR20 from a remote internet link, there would be no need for a Slingbox.

Of course, it would have to be pretty smart about how it handles low bandwidth connections. I guess that's probably too much to ask.


----------



## Yogi76 (Jan 7, 2008)

Behind price, availability time frame, and whether the device will be available from OEM's only, my next biggest question about the HDPC20 is will there be DRM restrictions on the recorded content? CableCard recordings on Vista Media Center are tightly wrapped with DRM which prevents them from being as useful as NTSC or ATSC recordings. On my current Media Center setup, I can transcode the recording for syncing to a portable device or even transfer the original recording to a laptop. Neither of these options is available with CableCard recordings. Hopefully, DirecTV leaves the Media Center recordings DRM free.

Yogi


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

cover said:


> Will this be limited to LAN or would it work remotely? If I could watch my HR20 from a remote internet link, there would be no need for a Slingbox.
> 
> Of course, it would have to be pretty smart about how it handles low bandwidth connections. I guess that's probably too much to ask.


Yes, but if you had Media Center version you could easily watch TV remotely both in house and on the road. I do it now, thou only cable.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

phat78boy said:


> Yes, but if you had Media Center version you could easily watch TV remotely both in house and on the road. I do it now, thou only cable.


Are you using Webguide for this? Just started doing this as well a few months back, and it works great... I'm even doing it with D*. If I click on OTA HD stuff, it pukes, but everything else works very well.


----------



## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

xzi said:


> Yup, I use and XBOX360 Elite in my living room, and 360s in the bedrooms. I was doing it all just fine with an "older" P4-3GHz Sony VAIO using XP. When I upgraded to Vista, I upgraded the PC too to a new Dell Inspiron 530, but reused all the old tuners.
> 
> I have a complete write up of my setup at http://www.xzi.com/my-rig/


Nice setup you have...

My wife has limited my new server setup... although I am going to be sticking it all in a closet if HD-DVD dies and just have 1 extended and a blu-ray drive in the living room.

We currently have 2 X360s and a Media Center box made out of an XPS410 with 2 HD OTA tuners and 2 D* boxes feeding into it. I would love to be able to add 2 more D* boxes. I am just wondering if I need to have a seperate network for all this video traffic.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

xzi said:


> Are you using Webguide for this? Just started doing this as well a few months back, and it works great... I'm even doing it with D*. If I click on OTA HD stuff, it pukes, but everything else works very well.


I've been using Orb actually. They do the same thing though.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

There will be more, but here's a shot I snapped as I raced through earlier this morning .. The AM21 is the slim box on top ..


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## kbcrowe (May 22, 2006)

It's sad I have to ask this, but could you confirm the HDPC20 is HD and not SD? You would think thats a no brainer but after all the bone headed things D* has done the past few years somebody HAS to ask since you didn't specify.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> If I could put the Tivo software on a PC and use these PC tuners to get back DLB and OTA, I'd for shizzle go for that solution. I dunno how the PC version is going to get reliable guide data though.


You could probably use the recently-announced Nero/TiVo s/w, but better still, MythTV is free and in many ways much more configurable and full-featured. TMS Guide data is available for $20/year from Schedules Direct. /steve


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## danman71 (Nov 21, 2006)

Any chance you could find out if they are adding the Champaign/Decatur/Springfield IL locals in HD this year?


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

nice!! thanks doug


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

rgreenpc said:


> I am just wondering if I need to have a seperate network for all this video traffic.


As long as you're not trying to do wireless, you'll be fine for a while on a 100Mbps network.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Steve said:


> You could probably use TiVo s/w, but better still, MythTV is free and in many ways much more configurable and full-featured. TMS Guide data is available for $20/year from Schedules Direct. /steve


Mythtv is very crudely implemented, at least in the configuration screens, which wouldn't allow me to navigate most of the time (I had to quit and restart it several times). EyeTV on the Mac does a much better job, although it isn't free. EyeTV uses TitanTV for the guide (free).


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> There will be more, but here's a shot I snapped as I raced through earlier this morning .. The AM21 is the slim box on top ..


Thanks Doug! I see the AM21 suffers from *fingerprintitis*, just like my beloved HR21!


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Thanks Doug! I see the AM21 suffers from *fingerprintitis*, just like my beloved HR21!


:lol:


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Thanks Doug! I see the AM21 suffers from *fingerprintitis*, just like my beloved HR21!


I would have preferred a matte finish for both, but you can't have everything


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

We will try to get answers to your questions, when go back for the special event.


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

Thanks for the update, Earl.

I would be interested in a price point for the AM21 as well if you can get it.


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## bwclark (Nov 10, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> There will be more, but here's a shot I snapped as I raced through earlier this morning .. The AM21 is the slim box on top ..


Excellent! Finally some light at the end of the tunnel.....

Direct TV....HELLO? I'm waiting to subscribe

Cable Guy


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Please don't forget folks - these DBSTalk Working Warriors are operating on Las Vegas time (PST).

*Thanks Earl - we'll look forward to your reports after the special event.*

Perhaps we should avoid "bombarding" them with too many questions now, before they get the chance to breathe and furnish their next report.

Remember...they went there well-prepared with questions from many of us that were submitted in the other thread *in advance*.

Between more information and photos, the next 24 hours should be quite informative and exciting....and DBSTalk has a solid track record of getting new information ahead of almost anyone else. Patience please.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Thanks for the updates! Excellent stuff!!!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

We're spending much of the day asking questions you've asked us, so we'll have to upload the Q&A stuff tonight. (For both Dish and DIRECTV, btw.)

Running as fast as my fingers can type (and that isn't as fast as Earl.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Be assured we are grateful for your (plural) efforts and they are being read with great interest!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I hear what you all say... I will ask as many questions as I can. 

To add to what Earl said... the AM21 is a very attractive piece. One of us will post a picture as soon as possible. 

The DIRECTV Experience was a very separate experience from the rest of CES. It's in its own room, and you can see a lot of neat stuff there.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The DIRECTV -> PC solution is really cool. Imagine an HR20 in a window on your PC, streaming HD content to your computer. They have an ironclad method of making sure the content stays on your LAN and doesn't go out to the LAN.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

They also confirmed that Remote Booking will go live for ALL HR20s around January 17, 2008 and will be available for HR21s soon after that.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I was the first one to say that the HR21 Pro was vaporware, but what I saw sure looked like a finished product.


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## CaMS (May 31, 2007)

Earl and others thank you very much for the info and the soon to come pics.. if possible can you find out some more info onthe Directv PC card like..

-Will it be OEM only or can anyone pick one up and install it
-Any hint at price 
-when can we purchase one

For the person who asked if this card will be HD. YES it will be HD, the sat. guide will come from the actually sat's and not the interent, also it will be 2way info..meaning you can order PPV from the Vista Media Center Interface..and Im almost 99% sure that this will require the soo called "Fiji" update from M$.. Fiji is the next update to Vista media center that should include function with this PC card and add native Blue-ray\HD DVD support.. 

Now the only bad news is that this Fiji update has not even started beta yet(Im Hearing sooon though)..so who knows when we can get our hands on this TunerCard
Usually its about a 6-8month time frame after we see a public beta untill it goes RTM


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

THANKS - LOTS OF TERRIFIC NEWS!

I just knew a "Shadow" could find out alot without being seen... :lol:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The DIRECTV "card" is now the dual tuner HDPC-20. The card solution had technical problems trying to work inside a PC case.

Cheers,
Tom


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## VLaslow (Aug 16, 2006)

With all this excitement, I'm sorry I didn't attend this year. Ah well, you guys are doing a great job! Keep going until your knees wear out!

I'd think there is more you all want to see besides DirecTV. I know I would.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

OK, that does it. If someone sees a guy walking toward Las Vegas from Austin. Pick him up. It is probably me!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I was totally not expecting the PC solution, and what I'm being told is this is not a hardware solution, to be clear this is software you run and it makes your PC look act like an HR20. 

It will run on XP or Vista and will be preloaded on Dell PCs. 

Also you can click on a point on the progress bar and jump to that point.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> The DIRECTV "card" is now the dual tuner HDPC-20. The card solution had technical problems trying to work inside a PC case.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


problably a problem like finding 18 and 22 volts to run the dish :lol:


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I was totally not expecting the PC solution, and what I'm being told is this is not a hardware solution, to be clear this is software you run and it makes your PC look act like an HR20.
> 
> It will run on XP or Vista and will be preloaded on Dell PCs.
> 
> Also you can click on a point on the progress bar and jump to that point.


Well, never mind. I am not walking there after all. Hum!

EDIT
Thanks Stuart. I hope you guys are having fun out there and thanks for the info/updates.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Great job guys, at CES. Looking forward to these new additions to the DirecTV family. But wondering who many wives will say what mine did when I showed her Doug's picture of the new AM21, "Oh no, not another piece of equipment in the home theater center".:lol: Just that woman thing everything has to be hidden. 

Keep up the great work guys.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

houskamp said:


> problably a problem like finding 18 and 22 volts to run the dish :lol:


Good point but other satellite cards find a way to do it, somehow. 

Just think about all the EM and RF noise inside a PC.


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## Pinion413 (Oct 21, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> There will be more, but here's a shot I snapped as I raced through earlier this morning .. The AM21 is the slim box on top ...


Wow! Nice compliment to the HR21. Should make any owners of those boxes happy to have an add-on for OTA that doesn't stick out badly or anything. :grin:


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## matsfan (Sep 9, 2006)

Pinion413 said:


> Wow! Nice compliment to the HR21. Should make any owners of those boxes happy to have an add-on for OTA that doesn't stick out badly or anything. :grin:


Hopefully it will work with the H21's as well... Wouldn't need it so much if LIN would just settle and allow HD retransmissions. Sigh.


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## matsfan (Sep 9, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I was totally not expecting the PC solution, and what I'm being told is this is not a hardware solution, to be clear this is software you run and it makes your PC look act like an HR20.
> 
> It will run on XP or Vista and will be preloaded on Dell PCs.
> 
> Also you can click on a point on the progress bar and jump to that point.


That implies no Mac support to me, which while not unexpected is too bad. Are XP and Vista the only supported OS's?


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## Alexandrepsf (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks guys for your excellent work. Very helpful.

I like the PC solution, hopefully it will be commercialized soon.

On a more practical term, did you guys hear anything about revamping the programming packages? Will there be new packages? 

Will we have an "All Access" package with DVR and HD services included?

Cheers,
Alex


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

matsfan said:


> Hopefully it will work with the H21's as well... Wouldn't need it so much if LIN would just settle and allow HD retransmissions. Sigh.


I asked Earl to check with them in the 2nd post in the thread, hopefully we will find something out tonight


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

matsfan said:


> That implies no Mac support to me, which while not unexpected is too bad. Are XP and Vista the only supported OS's?


Now you know how I, a proud Zune owner, feels


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

itguy05 said:


> Mac support for the remote viewing, please. Many of us won't touch anything MS with a 1,000,000 foot pole.


+1


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

rgreenpc said:


> Earl - you have no idea how happy you have made me as many of us Vista people have been crying and many were ready to leave for HR21s.
> 
> I love VISTA Media Center but I can't take much more of the S-Video


Upgrade your video card - usually pretty easy. OR -get an XBOX360.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Thanks to the DBSTalk press contingent for all the hard work and great reporting from CES!



Stuart Sweet said:


> I was totally not expecting the PC solution, and what I'm being told is this is not a hardware solution, to be clear this is software you run and it makes your PC look act like an HR20.
> 
> It will run on XP or Vista and will be preloaded on Dell PCs.
> 
> Also you can click on a point on the progress bar and jump to that point.


Stuart - Does this mean this is only available via OEM-installation, or can anyone obtain the software for self-installation? Any idea of the costs and timeframe for availability?

Thanks again!


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## matsfan (Sep 9, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Now you know how I, a proud Zune owner, feels


:lol: :lol:


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## Yogi76 (Jan 7, 2008)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Upgrade your video card - usually pretty easy. OR -get an XBOX360.


He's referring to the connection from the DirecTV box to the Media Center computer, which is currently limited to SVideo.

Yogi


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

All very exciting, but we need some fact sheets. I'll wait till tonight.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> Thanks to the DBSTalk press contingent for all the hard work and great reporting from CES!
> 
> Stuart - Does this mean this is only available via OEM-installation, or can anyone obtain the software for self-installation? Any idea of the costs and timeframe for availability?
> 
> Thanks again!


I don't know but I got the impression it was *NOT* OEM only. I will confirm tonight.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

matsfan said:


> That implies no Mac support to me, which while not unexpected is too bad. Are XP and Vista the only supported OS's?


Us Mac boys (and girls) are always last on the totem pole. It will be up to one of us to figure out a solution...


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

*I just HAVE to ask...*

Will the PC solution support DLB?  or is that going to be strictly based on the software that you use? Is the PC solution going to be "usable"? In the sense that it won't require us to use a DTV software package but rather any of the millions of TV apps out there? Such as the upcoming Nero/Tivo thing?


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## matsfan (Sep 9, 2006)

I should have jumped in and thanked those who traveled to CES and are sharing their findings and getting answers to our questions. A big thanks gang, it is appreciated!


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## Montyward (Aug 16, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> *I just HAVE to ask...*
> 
> Will the PC solution support DLB?  or is that going to be strictly based on the software that you use? Is the PC solution going to be "usable"? In the sense that it won't require us to use a DTV software package but rather any of the millions of TV apps out there? Such as the upcoming Nero/Tivo thing?


I can only see this being allowed to work in Vista Media Center similar to Cablecards. I just hope that we can buy it as an add-on without needing a new computer.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 25, 2003)

Any news on the "Tivo enhancements" promised in 2008?


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I was totally not expecting the PC solution, and what I'm being told is this is not a hardware solution, to be clear this is software you run and it makes your PC look act like an HR20.
> 
> It will run on XP or Vista and will be preloaded on Dell PCs.
> 
> Also you can click on a point on the progress bar and jump to that point.


I'm missing something ...... how do I get the HD feed into my puter?

To the best of my knowledge there's no card that accepts component or hdmi inputs for recording. (Believe me I've searched). I'd love to put one of these next to the ota tuner on my puter and let btv handle both feeds.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Bushwacr said:


> I'm missing something ...... how do I get the HD feed into my puter?
> 
> To the best of my knowledge there's no card that accepts component or hdmi inputs for recording. (Believe me I've searched). I'd love to put one of these next to the ota tuner on my puter and let btv handle both feeds.


The magic of the software solution they have developed.
Oh and the network connection of the HR2*


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I will play more but it looks like one of those "just works" sort of solutions.


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The magic of the software solution they have developed.
> Oh and the network connection of the HR2*


Ah ..... this is a network extender in reverse. Bummer.

Is this the USB tuner solution we're talking about? Usually there's a piece of hardware.


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

Bushwacr said:


> Ah ..... this is a network extender in reverse. Bummer.
> 
> Is this the USB tuner solution we're talking about? Usually there's a piece of hardware.


I have a feeling there is some confusion going on between "Watching recorded shows from your HR20/21 on the PC" and the "USB Tuner"

Best to wait for actual facts in the form of spec sheets or a formal post on each solution before any conclusions are made. This is mostly me holding out hope as the idea of paying for a HR20 in a window just...boggles my mind. Intigration with Media Center would be the holy grail, an HR20 in a window would be...stupid. There is just no better way to put it. An HR20 costs far less then a good Media Center PC...Who would /ever/ pay more to limit themselves like that?

I can't really believe that this is what the USB tuner will be, it just makes no sense and is going to anger /everyone/.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Bushwacr said:


> Ah ..... this is a network extender in reverse. Bummer.
> 
> Is this the USB tuner solution we're talking about? Usually there's a piece of hardware.


Yes, the tuners are in a seperate box for the HR21 series of DVR's. See the picture here, compliments of Doug...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1374768&postcount=133


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## condensr (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm pretty sure Earl was talking about the "Watch recorded HR20 content on your PC" feature.

As for the USB Media Center Tuner, the HD video would go (probably still compressed, and encrypted) in to your Media Center PC over the USB connection.


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## eandras (Feb 16, 2007)

Earl, Tom, Stuart, and Doug:

You have your marching orders. GET ALL THE INFORMATION YOU CAN AND REPORT BACK HERE. By the way why did you guys leave the show to report back to us? The show is like putting a kid in the toy store or a diabetic in a candy store. We want all the information you can get.

Have fun. Remember to let Directv know that samples of the prducts are always welcome by the readers of this forum.

Ed :hurah:


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Will some of this stuff make a Slingbox obsolete for some DirecTV customers?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Tybio said:


> I can't really believe that this is what the USB tuner will be, it just makes no sense and is going to anger /everyone/.


Really? My first impression was that it was even better than what was expected.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tybio said:


> I can't really believe that this is what the USB tuner will be, it just makes no sense and is going to anger /everyone/.


Can you elaborate on that a bit....

The PC software, has nothing to do with the ATSC solution (nor the USB Tuner).

There are three different things being talked about here...

The HR21-AddOn (via USB) for ATSC
The PC Software component so you can access content on the HR2*
The USB Connected Tuner for a PC

(oh and the HR21-Pro)


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

PoitNarf said:


> Will some of this stuff make a Slingbox obsolete for some DirecTV customers?


hmmm good question...........but i think not..............unless we have a virtual remote to control the HR2*'s with to dl CEs.

Wait.......The HR20 to PC thing ..... is this just local only or will it support internet streaming??


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

PoitNarf said:


> Will some of this stuff make a Slingbox obsolete for some DirecTV customers?


Not necessarily.....

Since this solution will have to stay on the same lan.


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## chopperjc (Oct 2, 2006)

I am green with envy!!!!!!!! Drool-drool, I want new toys!


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

condensr said:


> I'm pretty sure Earl was talking about the "Watch recorded HR20 content on your PC" feature.
> 
> As for the USB Media Center Tuner, the HD video would go (probably still compressed, and encrypted) in to your Media Center PC over the USB connection.


This, I am fine with...hopehopehope this is the case and we just have some topic mixing going on


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chopperjc said:


> I am green with envy!!!!!!!! Drool-drool, I want new toys!


Don't ever come to CES then... you will pass out.

Honestly... for a "toy" geek, it is a lot overwhelming at first.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Add another half inch to the hight of the AM21, an eSATA port, mounting points for 2 hard drives, maybe a raid card, then you've really got something.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not necessarily.....
> 
> Since this solution will have to stay on the same lan.


What if you set up a VPN tunnel to your home LAN from a remote location? Once it's in the TCP/IP world there are always ways to move the packets around where you want them to go.


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Not necessarily.....
> 
> Since this solution will have to stay on the same lan.


you answered my question at the same time i posted it....... :lol:


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## chopperjc (Oct 2, 2006)

My friend said my head would explode


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

RobertE said:


> Add another half inch to the hight of the AM21, an eSATA port, mounting points for 2 hard drives, maybe a raid card, then you've really got something.


Why?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Then they would have their own eSata enclosure. Blends in nicely with the HR21 & AM21.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

I'd be broke (and CCs maxed out) in no time if I went there


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

RobertE said:


> Add another half inch to the hight of the AM21, an eSATA port, mounting points for 2 hard drives, maybe a raid card, then you've really got something.


I was thinking a couple of fans like a laptop cooler would be cool (in more ways than one)


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Can you elaborate on that a bit....
> 
> The PC software, has nothing to do with the ATSC solution (nor the USB Tuner).
> 
> ...


If the USB connected tuner intigrates with standard PC DVR software (MCE, MythTV..what /ever/) then I'm jumping for joy. The thread just got a bit confused.

Any hope for more detail on the USB Tuner later tonight?

My wish list of questions:

1> PC Software intigration planned? (We all assume MCE, and that would be the best IMHO).
2> DRM structure? (standard dvr-ms would be ok)
3> Following #2: Is the transcoding from mpeg4 to mpeg2 (dvr-ms standard) done by the USB Tuner or on the PC Processor?
4> OEM PC required alla CableCard?
5> Price and ship date (why not ask for it all if we are asking!)


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## airedale (Aug 8, 2007)

Tybio said:


> If the USB connected tuner intigrates with standard PC DVR software (MCE, MythTV..what /ever/) then I'm jumping for joy. The thread just got a bit confused.
> 
> Any hope for more detail on the USB Tuner later tonight?


You are *DREAMING* if you think there will be any support for MythTV! :lol: :sure:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

houskamp said:


> I was thinking a couple of fans like a laptop cooler would be cool (in more ways than one)


Was thinking the same thing. Depending on the cost of it and if it was owned instead of leased....

Add fans, now its a OTA tuner & Chill pad
Add a hard drive or two and now its a OTA tuner, Chill Pad & eSata enclosure all in one.

Hmmm....wonder what I could charge for a 3rd party modifications.


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Upgrade your video card - usually pretty easy. OR -get an XBOX360.


I was talking about my inability to CAPTURE HD content, instead having to feed S-Video to record on my media center as there is no way to capture off D* via HDMI


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

Would the HDPC20 - PC Add On be able to run on MythTV/any non Windows OS/other non MediaCenter Product? Would we would be able to just order the box and install device ourselves or have to order a PC through OEM? Is the HDPC20 - PC SWM capable product? Can you check the status on when SWM would be widely available? When the HDPC20 becomes available, I will need a SWM.


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## digitalfreak (Nov 30, 2006)

What is SWM again? Is that the thing that allows you to connect two D* tuners with only one cable?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

digitalfreak said:


> What is SWM again? Is that the thing that allows you to connect two D* tuners with only one cable?


Correct, SWM = Single Wire Multiswitch


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

digitalfreak said:


> What is SWM again? Is that the thing that allows you to connect two D* tuners with only one cable?


Single White Male, or the Single Wire Multiswitch. Take your pick  The latter allows the use of spitters and single lines to the HR2x series and some day the successor to the R15


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

digitalfreak said:


> What is SWM again? Is that the thing that allows you to connect two D* tuners with only one cable?


Single Wire Multiswitch and yes.


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

airedale said:


> You are *DREAMING* if you think there will be any support for MythTV! :lol: :sure:


More like, I don't care if that's the platform they chose . I run MCE now with myMovies and myTV and love it .


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## airedale (Aug 8, 2007)

Tybio said:


> More like, I don't care if that's the platform they chose . I run MCE now with myMovies and myTV and love it .


Me too! Pretty nice setup!


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Single Wire Multiswitch and yes.


Since I have 2 runs to my living room, I am hoping to get 4 of those HDPC20s and hooks them up to either 1 or 2 Media centers over a network share and connect my extenders.....

Oh the wife is not gonna be happy when I change the network and start moving things.... :nono:


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## JoeCool123 (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for giving us all the heads-up from the CES. You all are doing a great job! We "techno-nerds" all feel sorry for you and your suffering there at the CES (ahemmm)!


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## condensr (Oct 13, 2007)

digitalfreak said:


> What is SWM again? Is that the thing that allows you to connect two D* tuners with only one cable?


Yes, for recent D* set top boxes that support this feature.

As for the HDPC-20 (D* Media Center tuner), I wouldn't count on the fact that any transcoding will be needed at all. It is possible that by the time this is released, or maybe concurrent with the release of this box, MCE might support MPEG4 natively. That would be cool, anyhow, as it would save lots of hard drive space for anyone recording HD content on their Media Center PC.

What I'm really wondering about is the OEM requirement stuff, and how much it will cost..


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

JoeCool123 said:


> Thanks for giving us all the heads-up from the CES. You all are doing a great job! We "techno-nerds" all feel sorry for you and your suffering there at the CES (ahemmm)!


If it makes you feel better.... I have a major head cold... 
And thus not really "maxing out" my time here.


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## ticket (Mar 5, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Don't ever come to CES then... you will pass out.
> 
> Honestly... for a "toy" geek, it is a lot overwhelming at first.


Earl, did you see Panasonic 150 inch Plasma?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ticket said:


> Earl, did you see Panasonic 150 inch Plasma?


No... but I did see their 100"


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## tgr131 (Apr 9, 2007)

Wonder if the HDPC20 would work with an XP box.

David


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

airedale said:


> Me too! Pretty nice setup!


Yep, I have this hope that the DirectTV USB tuner will let me move files around on my NAS...I don't care overly much if they are DRMed, I just want to be able to file them in directories for myTV for eternal storage


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## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

condensr said:


> What I'm really wondering about is the OEM requirement stuff, and how much it will cost..


I keep hearing that it wouldn't be in D*s best interest to require an OEM deal, as it would significantly cut down on the owner base.

I see it as one of three ways:

1. They sell the box and you take it home and load a driver and off you go. (I would buy four)
2. They sell the box as part of an OEM through DELL/HP/etc( I still would buy three or four)
3. They lease the boxes and the media center box. (I probably would STILL buy)

I just need to grab a few more raid quality 1TB drives


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

rgreenpc said:


> I keep hearing that it wouldn't be in D*s best interest to require an OEM deal, as it would significantly cut down on the owner base.
> 
> I see it as one of three ways:
> 
> ...


I would still buy them, but the limitations would be awful. Just think about having to send your PC to them to replace a bad drive, or video card as it changes the CableLabs certification and makes your USB Tuner invalid *shudder*.

I'm fine with reasonable restrictions, but I hope they don't fall into the Cable Labs nightmare.


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## mjbehren (Nov 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:



> Purely PC Based.


Nice. Thanks for the info and the pics...

Was the picture of the PC the HDPC20? If so, it looks like there are recording capabilities with it...

Do we know where the files are kept? 
What format they are in? 
Assuming they are encrypted, would they be transferable?
What the recording capacity would be (based on the amt of storage in the PC)?

Thanks, and keep up the great work! Tell everyone at the DTV booth hi, and thank you!
Mb


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## mjones73 (Jun 20, 2006)

CableLabs has nothing to do with Directv's USB solution I'm sure. From what I've read in the past it wasn't supposed to require a certified PC but I'm sure that could have changed. Hopefully we'll know more soon.


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## mjones73 (Jun 20, 2006)

mjbehren said:


> Nice. Thanks for the info and the pics...
> 
> Was the picture of the PC the HDPC20? If so, it looks like there are recording capabilities with it...
> 
> ...


Which pic are you referring to? The only one I've seen in the thread is the add on ATSC tuners for the HR21.


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## puffnstuff (Sep 2, 2006)

mjones73 said:


> Which pic are you referring to? The only one I've seen in the thread is the add on ATSC tuners for the HR21.


WOW that was fast !


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

Ok so the MRV solution is WMC....would that be what I undersrtand , If I have a 360 in my room I could Pull files between the two plus my pc.


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## Tybio (Oct 24, 2007)

mjones73 said:


> CableLabs has nothing to do with Directv's USB solution I'm sure. From what I've read in the past it wasn't supposed to require a certified PC but I'm sure that could have changed. Hopefully we'll know more soon.


Aye, they don't have direct involvement. But the solution has something to do with the demands of the content providers (HBO Etc). Just saying that I hope we don't end up in the same boat as the Cable subscribers....Cable Labs or not .


----------



## mjbehren (Nov 21, 2006)

mjones73 said:


> Which pic are you referring to? The only one I've seen in the thread is the add on ATSC tuners for the HR21.


Pic 3, here...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1375113&postcount=2



Mb


----------



## puffnstuff (Sep 2, 2006)

mjbehren said:


> Pic 3, here...
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1375113&postcount=2
> 
> ...


Thanks I can't look around here fast enough .


----------



## jimd909 (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, I guess the question that hasn't been asked yet (or maybe I missed it -- OK I did miss it, but it hasn't been answered yet).

Will the PC connection work on a Mac? Or, will it be Windows only?


----------



## mjbehren (Nov 21, 2006)

puffnstuff said:


> Thanks I can't look around here fast enough .


It does get pretty crazy around here at CES time. 

Enjoy!

Mb


----------



## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

itguy05 said:


> Mac support for the remote viewing, please. Many of us won't touch anything MS with a 1,000,000 foot pole.


Sadly I have fallen to the dark side and have more PC's than Mac's, none the less I would love to see more MAC support, I do still prefer the MAC system overall.


----------



## puffnstuff (Sep 2, 2006)

Any news on Directv to Go ?


----------



## rgreenpc (Mar 6, 2004)

DirecTV and Microsoft can easily put restrictions on content via the guide or feed data. That would be the most logical thing to do... granted thats not always a given when dealing with CE companies.

All they have to do is send a "delete after 30 days or no copy flag"


----------



## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

PoitNarf said:


> Will some of this stuff make a Slingbox obsolete for some DirecTV customers?


I didn't see anything about it working outside of your home/network or over the Internet, like the Sling Box does. Could have missed it but don't recall seeing anything about it.


----------



## Cordill (Jun 22, 2007)

I just want to personally thank all of you out there in LV the information you are bringing the masses is awesome 

Thanks a Lot


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Great information - and we haven't even gotten dates, pricing, official press event, or information on the imminent MRV.

MRV has to be here - the PC viewing is MRV, just with software on a PC... so I'm sure the HR2x is ready to go with MRV... whoo hoo.

Chris


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

houskamp said:


> I was thinking a couple of fans like a laptop cooler would be cool (in more ways than one)


Joke thief! Not cool - you stole my joke! 



:lol:


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

BudShark said:


> Great information - and we haven't even gotten dates, pricing, official press event, or information on the imminent MRV.
> 
> MRV has to be here - the PC viewing is MRV, just with software on a PC... so I'm sure the HR2x is ready to go with MRV... whoo hoo.
> 
> Chris


The pic for PC viewing (aka MediaShare) says "free integrated service", so at least that part is free. The part that concerned me was where it said "plug-and-play capability with certain PCs". I'll need a definition of "certain" ... or does it mean it will work on other PCs but won't be plug-and-play, but will require manual configuration/setup?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drew2k said:


> Joke thief! Not cool - you stole my joke!


Next year Drew - I'm going to the CES - and you are invited to meet me there and we'll show them all just what REAL humor is... :lol:


----------



## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> There will be more, but here's a shot I snapped as I raced through earlier this morning .. The AM21 is the slim box on top ..


That would work for me!!! :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MartyS said:


> That would work for me!!! :lol:


You and 100,000 others.... :lol:

I'm dying to see the back panel (ports, etc.)...if Shadow can distract them, maybe Tom or Earl can sneak in and get a quick shot...


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Drew2k said:


> The part that concerned me was where it said "plug-and-play capability with certain PCs". I'll need a definition of "certain" ...


"Certain" = "Not Macs" :lol:


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There are three different things being talked about here...


I think that's confusing people. Once we get beyond "announcement" and into more specifics about each new product, perhaps they should each have their own thread.

PS - Awesome work to all the DBSTalkers at CES! Thank you!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Next year Drew - I'm going to the CES - and you are invited to meet me there and we'll show them all just what REAL humor is... :lol:


We'll take Vegas by storm! :lol:


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm dying to see the back panel (ports, etc.)...if Shadow can distract them, maybe Tom or Earl can sneak in and get a quick shot...


Yes me too. Any chance of that? Can you also get a shot of the blue info card next to the AM21? I'm just curious to see what it says.

Thanks for all the info guys, great job!


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> The DIRECTV "card" is now the dual tuner HDPC-20. The card solution had technical problems trying to work inside a PC case.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom





Stuart Sweet said:


> I was totally not expecting the PC solution, and what I'm being told is this is not a hardware solution, to be clear this is software you run and it makes your PC look act like an HR20.
> 
> It will run on XP or Vista and will be preloaded on Dell PCs.
> 
> Also you can click on a point on the progress bar and jump to that point.


Are you two talking about the same thing? If you are, I am really confused....


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drew2k said:


> We'll take Vegas by storm! :lol:


That might be pushing it....it hardly even rains there anymore.... 


theratpatrol said:


> Yes me too. Any chance of that? Can you also get a shot of the blue info card next to the AM21? I'm just curious to see what it says.
> 
> Thanks for all the info guys, great job!


They already did that....here it is again...

...now if we can only sneak someone to see the back....


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Yes me too. Any chance of that? Can you also get a shot of the blue info card next to the AM21? I'm just curious to see what it says.
> 
> Thanks for all the info guys, great job!


Already posted ... in the CES 2008 Forum. 

Direct thread link: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1375113#post1375113


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## chrisfowler99 (Aug 23, 2006)

This sure seems to be about 1 step from MRV:


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Drew2k said:


> Already posted ... in the CES 2008 Forum.
> 
> Direct thread link: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1375113#post1375113


DOH! I missed that picture. Sounds pretty cool. I think D* knows what its doing. Now if they could just get this out to those that need it sooner then later.

Thanks


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

chrisfowler99 said:


> This sure seems to be about 1 step from MRV:


+1, sounds like they've got the code for having a HR2X serve the content, now if they can just get an agent for the HR2X's, come on CE release, bring it on!


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You and 100,000 others.... :lol:
> 
> I'm dying to see the back panel (ports, etc.)...if Shadow can distract them, maybe Tom or Earl can sneak in and get a quick shot...


shouldn't be much more than a coax hook in and and USB cord or USB port for a cable to hook to the HR21.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Can you ask and see if they'll ever have a DVR with PIP?

Man, all this new stuff is exciting. I feel like a little kid with new toys.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

jefbal99 said:


> shouldn't be much more than a coax hook in and and USB cord or USB port for a cable to hook to the HR21.


Inquiring minds want to know..... :lol:


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

chrisfowler99 said:


> This sure seems to be about 1 step from MRV


Barely a step, 1/2 of one if we're lucky... Bring on the MRV!


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

theratpatrol said:


> Can you ask and see if they'll ever have a DVR with PIP?


You're talking about something way in the future here. The HR20/21 are it for now, and they will never have PIP.


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## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

Any word on DLB?


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## chrisfowler99 (Aug 23, 2006)

Thaedron said:


> Barely a step, 1/2 of one if we're lucky... Bring on the MRV!


The HR20/21 can play videos from the PC.
The PC can play videos from the HR20/21.

Only one step missing to have the HR20/21 play videos from another HR20/21.


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## dbmaven (May 29, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Single Wire Multiswitch and yes.


Speaking of SWM - any word on rollout/general availability of SWMs, both 5 and 8 ??
Cost??


----------



## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks for the great reporting from the CES. Sounds like lots of exciting stuff planned. Number one on my wish list is still MRV though. I'd love to try that out. But it all sounds real interesting.


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## ToddD (Jun 14, 2006)

wavemaster said:


> Any word on DLB?


I hate to break it to you but there is only one modern DVR with DLB and that is Tivo.

Moto and SA cable boxes are SLB....

Media Center is SLB

DirecTV DVR+ boxes are SLB....

see a trend here.....


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

ToddD said:


> I hate to break it to you but there is only one modern DVR with DLB and that is Tivo.
> 
> Moto and SA cable boxes are SLB....
> 
> ...


I hate to disagree and go off topic here, but my moto hd dvr from comcast was indeed DLB. I could pause tuner 1, swap to tuner 2, watch then pause, then swap back to tuner 1 and it was still paused.


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## rebkell (Sep 9, 2006)

jefbal99 said:


> I hate to disagree and go off topic here, but my moto hd dvr from comcast was indeed DLB. I could pause tuner 1, swap to tuner 2, watch then pause, then swap back to tuner 1 and it was still paused.


Agreed, my Motorola dvr from comcast would do that also


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

jefbal99 said:


> I hate to disagree and go off topic here, but my moto hd dvr from comcast was indeed DLB. I could pause tuner 1, swap to tuner 2, watch then pause, then swap back to tuner 1 and it was still paused.


What you are describing isn't really Dual LIVE Buffer.

With the old TiVo boxes, you didn't have to PAUSE the current channel to switch to the other buffer. You just changed the channel and could rewind immediately.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> What you are describing isn't really Dual LIVE Buffer.
> 
> With the old TiVo boxes, you didn't have to PAUSE the current channel to switch to the other buffer. You just changed the channel and could rewind immediately.


Correctamundo....you have described DLB well in the way it is supposed to work and how it did work in the old Tivo boxes... 

There's another whole thread on the DLB topic that dives into it deeply...


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

I hate East Coast time... I keep wondering where the he77 Earl and Co. are... but then I realize its only 8pm out there!!! ARRGH! :lol:


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## barryb (Aug 27, 2007)

This is all VERY exciting news Earl!


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

i haven't seen confirmation as to whether or not the "media share" feature will leave us Mac users in the dark?


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## rrrick8 (Mar 20, 2007)

BudShark said:


> I hate East Coast time... I keep wondering where the he77 Earl and Co. are... but then I realize its only 8pm out there!!! ARRGH! :lol:











Pace yourself!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rrrick8 said:


> Pace yourself!


Oh boy....that's not gonna fly right.... :eek2: :lol:

The DBSTalk team is working hard out there.........honest.......


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

rrrick8 said:


> Pace yourself!


:eek2:

:rotfl:


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

Spanky_Partain said:


> Yes, the tuners are in a seperate box for the HR21 series of DVR's. See the picture here, compliments of Doug...
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1374768&postcount=133


That's the OTA solution. I have two of those already. I'm inquiring about the USB DTV HD tuner for PC's.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Because of the time difference, I'm going to "pace myself" and check early in the morning Eastern time to see all that showed up here later tonight...


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

You can't bail out... too much can happen! OSU could come back, Earl could post a 1 time CE for MRV, free USB tuners to the first 25 posters...

Oh wait - OSU just fumbled. That doesn't bode well for the rest of my dream...

Chris


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

BudShark said:


> You can't bail out... too much can happen! OSU could come back, Earl could post a 1 time CE for MRV, free USB tuners to the first 25 posters...
> 
> Oh wait - OSU just fumbled. That doesn't bode well for the rest of my dream...
> 
> Chris


You need to pace yourself too I guess....happy dreams...


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

ToddD said:


> I hate to break it to you but there is only one modern DVR with DLB and that is Tivo.
> 
> Moto and SA cable boxes are SLB....
> 
> ...


In addition to the Moto examples posted above, the SA8300 depends on what software is being run. One has DLB. The other has DLB as long as you keep the other tuner "alive" in the PIP.


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

ToddD said:


> I hate to break it to you but there is only one modern DVR with DLB and that is Tivo.
> 
> Moto and SA cable boxes are SLB....
> 
> ...


I believe SageTV is DLB... it's actually TLB if you have three tuners (etc. etc.)


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

The comments from the MediaShare photo show:


Share media from your HD DVR to your PC
Stream recorded HD programming in full resolution from your DIRECTV Plus HD DVR to your PC
Watch two HD programs at once from your HD DVR - one on your TV and the other on your PC
A free integrated service of the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR
Simple user interface
Automatic plug-and-play capability with certain PC's
I wonder what this all means ...

For #1 & #2, whats the difference between the two. #2 sounds like you bring up an application on your PC and you can watch HD shows from the HR21. #1 lets you copy shows? #1 also says "HD DVR" not DIRECTV Plus HS DVR.

For #3, seems like same as #2 but you can also do while watching a show on the HR21.

For #4 & #5, it's free and easy. Sounds good.

For #6, "certain PC's". Like Drew mentioned, I wonder what that means?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Sixto said:


> The comments from the MediaShare photo show:
> 
> Share media from your HD DVR to your PC
> Stream recorded HD programming in full resolution from your DIRECTV Plus HD DVR to your PC
> ...


I think #1, their first bullet, was more like a summary of what "MediaShare" is, while the rest of the bullets expanded on that summary. Just my guess ...


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> I think #1, their first bullet, was more like a summary of what "MediaShare" is, while the rest of the bullets expanded on that summary. Just my guess ...


Ah, that makes sense ...

#1 then is a summary

#2 lets you stream to a PC

#3 says it can be at same time as watching show on HR2x

#4 & #5 free and easy

#6 still leaves the "certain" question.

Also would be nice to not only "stream" but also copy like TTG


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## wavemaster (Sep 15, 2007)

jefbal99 said:


> I hate to disagree and go off topic here, but my moto hd dvr from comcast was indeed DLB. I could pause tuner 1, swap to tuner 2, watch then pause, then swap back to tuner 1 and it was still paused.


Agreed, same here.


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## steveken (Sep 15, 2007)

rgreenpc said:


> I was talking about my inability to CAPTURE HD content, instead having to feed S-Video to record on my media center as there is no way to capture off D* via HDMI


I haven't gotten all the way through these posts yet (this is on page 9 of 12 for me right now), but I want you to know that I am able to capture HD content on my PVR150 card that is in my Vista box. Mine is coming in via S-Video too. All you have to do is use the zoom feature when you hit the Info button (or Aspect if you have an HP remote) while you are watching a show. For me, HD to look right is Zoom 3. It still isn't as great as a pure HD feed, but its better than nothing and you can record it.


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## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

I wonder what will happen to the PC stuff if the FCC 47 CFR 73.9002(b) gets implemented. It was blocked by the courts before it went into effect but the appeals are still going on and broadcasters and studios are lobbying congress to grant such authority to the FCC.

The rule's Demodulator Compliance Requirements insists that all HDTV demodulators must "listen" for a broadcast flag (or assume it to be present in all signals). Flagged content must be output only to "protected outputs" (such as DVI and HDMI ports with HDCP encryption), or in degraded form through analog outputs or digital outputs with visual resolution of 720x480 pixels (480p EDTV) or less. Flagged content may be recorded only by "authorized" methods, which include tethering of recordings to a single device.

A broadcast flag is a set of status bits (or a "flag") sent in the data stream of a digital television program that indicates whether or not the data stream can be recorded, or if there are any restrictions on recorded content. Possible restrictions include the inability to save an unencrypted digital program to a hard disk or other non-volatile storage, inability to make secondary copies of recorded content (in order to share or archive), forceful reduction of quality when recording (such as reducing high-definition video to the resolution of standard TVs), and inability to skip over commercials.


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

puffnstuff said:


> Any news on Directv to Go ?


I asked about DIRECTV2GO and was told that it was dead.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Well the private event is over...

The "guys" will have some more photos for you during the night... as they upload them.

They did get plenty of shots, including the backpanels of some of the equipment.

I personally didn't get to ask a lot of questions.... I was meeting a lot of the faces that I have talked to electronically.... I let the three amigos do a lot of the Q/A....

But the time was pretty short... so we will work on getting some more of the answers, as CES ends and we just do some straight up communicating.

Here is some more things that I can tell you:

The ATSC is production ready... the box they had there, was a realy unit... but the Venitian does not have an OTA antenna for them to tap into...

Because of all the feedback about the communication of the HDExtra Pack... they are going to look at even more forms of communicating the transition from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4... From some of the conversation.... anyone saying they "never" knew is .... welll..... flatout not wanting to hear it...

So it was a very good event.... Tom, Doug, and Stuart worked the room from the Q/A questions, and spent a lot of time with some very intesting people.

I did get to meet a few people that made this trip worth wild as well... 
2007 was the year of HD for DirecTV...... and their foot is on the GAS...
in 2008... they are not going to slow down.

The HR2* platform is going to get some very neat things in the comming months.... Some long talked about things are going to appear from the "vapor" and become tangible items.

So while we didn't get all the answers you wanted....
We will.... And in short order... so hang with us as we do what we do best...

And get the DirecTV info you WANT... as soon as we can.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> "The HR2* platform is going to get some very neat things in the coming months.... Some long talked about things are going to appear from the "vapor" and become tangible items."


Great! Ready for 02468!


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Sixto said:


> For #6, "certain PC's". Like Drew mentioned, I wonder what that means?


The "PC" being used was a Dell M Series laptop. Stuart mentioned preloaded software on Dell PCs and I did hear the word "exclusive" when I questioned people at the Dell booth.

The "plug and play" may be referring to Dell PCs with preloaded software.

Exciting times ahead!!!


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## flipptyfloppity (Aug 20, 2007)

HR-whatever Pro is a joke without 1080p output. One of the things the higher price should bring is freedom from having to endure the screen adjustments of native mode and having 720p downrezzed to 1080i (effectively 720i) or 1080i downrezzed to 720p (effectively 720i).

ATSC is a near-necessity too.


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

BudShark said:


> I hate East Coast time... I keep wondering where the he77 Earl and Co. are...


I think you need to fix your keyboard... your key mappings seem to be a little off


----------



## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

frederic1943 said:


> I wonder what will happen to the PC stuff if the FCC 47 CFR 73.9002(b) gets implemented. It was blocked by the courts before it went into effect but the appeals are still going on and broadcasters and studios are lobbying congress to grant such authority to the FCC.
> 
> The rule's Demodulator Compliance Requirements insists that all HDTV demodulators must "listen" for a broadcast flag (or assume it to be present in all signals). Flagged content must be output only to "protected outputs" (such as DVI and HDMI ports with HDCP encryption), or in degraded form through analog outputs or digital outputs with visual resolution of 720x480 pixels (480p EDTV) or less. Flagged content may be recorded only by "authorized" methods, which include tethering of recordings to a single device.
> 
> A broadcast flag is a set of status bits (or a "flag") sent in the data stream of a digital television program that indicates whether or not the data stream can be recorded, or if there are any restrictions on recorded content. Possible restrictions include the inability to save an unencrypted digital program to a hard disk or other non-volatile storage, inability to make secondary copies of recorded content (in order to share or archive), forceful reduction of quality when recording (such as reducing high-definition video to the resolution of standard TVs), and inability to skip over commercials.


Well Media Center has no problem encorporation the flags, I assure you. This is why broadcasters were willing to work with Microsoft in the first place, after all DVR-MS and Media Center is the only DVR I know of that's had CGMS-A since the start--and I'm sure if DirecTV (or rather their broadcasters) tell them they need to adhere to their flags, it's an easy enough fix. Vista is the king of DRM after all.


----------



## dbsdave (May 1, 2007)

No, not going to get excited about media center and directv.....been down that road too many times only to have my heart broken again and again.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

flipptyfloppity said:


> HR-whatever Pro is a joke without 1080p output. One of the things the higher price should bring is freedom from having to endure the screen adjustments of native mode and having 720p downrezzed to 1080i (effectively 720i) or 1080i downrezzed to 720p (effectively 720i).
> 
> ATSC is a near-necessity too.


What content provider has announced they will have 1080p content available?
And it what quantity....

By the time 1080p becomes more of a staple... then even more of a nitch it is today... we will probably be on another generation of this DVR line.

As for Upconverting to 1080p.... what would you rather do it...
A receiver designed to work with how many different TV's out there.... thus will have a basic common upconverter...

Or the one in your expensive TV that is tuned and specifically designed for it.?

As for the ATSC... the AM21 add-on will also work with the HR21-PRO for those that want/need that feature.


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

dbsdave said:


> No, not going to get excited about media center and directv.....been down that road too many times only to have my heart broken again and again.


Fool me once, shame on you? Fool me 3 or more times, shame on me? :lol:


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## xzi (Sep 18, 2007)

dbsdave said:


> No, not going to get excited about media center and directv.....been down that road too many times only to have my heart broken again and again.


I agree! We can dream, though...


----------



## Debaser (Nov 15, 2007)

I would rather the HR20 do the upconvert for me. It has more information about the original sources. I used to run w/ the HR20 sending 720p/1080i to the TV, but channel changes were too annoying and took too long, so I switched to pure 1080i. This means that the 720p channels like ESPN get converted from 720p to 1080i inside the HR20, then from 1080i to 1080p on my television. (the second one probably isn't much of a conversion, but you get the idea).

Instead, I'd like the original 720p information upconverted to the 1080p instead of making a pit-stop in the middle. I think that'd be the best of all worlds.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Will the AM21 work on HR20 to replace the low quality tuners in it?


----------



## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

You're killing us here.

Please, we need information on the PC tuner card/usb dongle thing-a-ma-bob!!!!!


----------



## rebkell (Sep 9, 2006)

tony4d said:


> You're killing us here.
> 
> Please, we need information on the PC tuner card/usb dongle thing-a-ma-bob!!!!!


yes, yes, that's what I've been reading this thread over and over for the last hour and half waiting on, and so far I've heard nothing in reference to it, I have the locals covered. already via Media Center.


----------



## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Will the AM21 work on HR20 to replace the low quality tuners in it?


That's a good one. Not a chance.


----------



## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

teh thread = failz


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

rebkell said:


> yes, yes, that's what I've been reading this thread over and over for the last hour and half waiting on, and so far I've heard nothing in reference to it, I have the locals covered. already via Media Center.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=115136


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

tony4d said:


> teh thread = failz


This isn't Digg, more mature comments are encouraged here.


----------



## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

Here's pictures of the HDPC-20 brochure

Back

Front

It looks like we'll two more cables from the dish to use it.


----------



## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

frederic1943 said:


> It looks like we'll two more cables from the dish to use it.


Or SWM.


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## Shunopoli (Jan 8, 2008)

frederic1943 said:


> Here's pictures of the HDPC-20 brochure
> 
> It looks like we'll two more cables from the dish to use it.


This looks very cool and does this support HD


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Welcome to the forums, Shunopoli! :welcome_s

One of us will try to get that info tomorrow.

Cheers,
Tom


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## tony4d (Sep 5, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> This isn't Digg, more mature comments are encouraged here.


Gee, are we that hard up around here now that a sense of humor isn't allowed?


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Smilies help.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

tony4d said:


> Gee, are we that hard up around here now that a sense of humor isn't allowed?


lol no way its cool bro, jus post whatever u want!


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## rebkell (Sep 9, 2006)

This is the one I'm most interested in, the standalone tuner is interesting, but this one caught my eye as much as that:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok, play nice everyone.


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## Twitami (Aug 23, 2006)

exchguy said:


> Earl - any news of price drops for the HR20s? Would be nice to see a drop below the $299 retail.


Wait three more days...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes there is a planned price drop to $199 on Jan. 10.

Cheers,
Tom


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## dklippi (May 12, 2007)

Drewg5 said:


> Sadly I have fallen to the dark side and have more PC's than Mac's, none the less I would love to see more MAC support, I do still prefer the MAC system overall.


I know it's fun to say M$ and refer to Microsoft as the Dark Side. However, The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (B&MGF) is the largest transparently operated charitable foundation in the world, founded by Bill and Melinda Gates in 2000 and doubled in size by Warren Buffett in 2006.

Somehow Apple is regarded as a peace & love company. Many have eaten the marketing they have fed you to believe this. They sell $100 semi-annual "upgrades" and people bend over for them. They sell $600 toy phones on a slow network with a pain-in-the-*ss keyboard that only someone with the smallest fingers could possibly type an email and people say "thank you very much."

That's fine if you prefer the Mac system overall, but when you buy a Mac you know going into it that your choice for software will be limited. Microsoft helped develop the HDPC20, not Apple. Apple gave us the AppleTV so they could sell more iTunes content, not to help you in any way. They are the real dark side.

Microsoft also provides a vast amount of technical information. Apple provides a vast amount of marketing and cutesy fluff. It is easier to find Apple's latest TV commercials on their website than anything to do with the iPhone Recovery Mode (which I have had the unfortunate task of having to deal with on 100% of iPhones of my clients).

I used to be an Apple fan back in the Apple ][ days, but now they are a technical disgrace. I will give them credit for their hardware design and that is all.

DirecTV and Microsoft appear to have hit a home run here. It is true that MCE 2005 was niche, but now most Vista computers have MCE built-in ready to be tapped into as most computers I see at stores and online come with Vista Premium. I wish it hadn't taken so long, but finally the light is at the end of the tunnel!


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The HR2* platform is going to get some very neat things in the comming months.... Some long talked about things are going to appear from the "vapor" and become tangible items.


Coming from Earl, this is exciting. I just hope Earl consider MRV a neat thing.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The DIRECTV -> PC solution is really cool. Imagine an HR20 in a window on your PC, streaming HD content to your computer. They have an ironclad method of making sure the content stays on your LAN and doesn't go out to the LAN.


I am trying hard to get excited about this, but I just don't get it. I am not complaining about new features and cool engineering, but how does this improve customer experience? Could someone that can appreciate this help me understand the following:

1. Why would I want a true HD contents displayed in a window of a 20" PC so I can watch it on a arm chair while I can watch the same on a cozy sofa with my 56" HDTV? I am motivated to pull contents from my PC to show on TV, but why the other direction? The only motivation I can imagine for this feature is to use it as a workaround to feed contents from one HR20 to the TV in the other room that was connected to an HR21.

2. Doesn't the ironclad method of locking the contents up just kills the coolness of watching my contents when I am not home? I first thought the point was to prevent the customer base to be penetrated by Dish's Slingbox, but I guess I missed the point on this one, too.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Dusty said:


> I am trying hard to get excited about this, but I just don't get it. I am not complaining about new features and cool engineering, but how does this improve customer experience? Could someone that can appreciate this help me understand the following:
> 
> 1. Why would I want a true HD contents displayed in a window of a 20" PC so I can watch it on a arm chair while I can watch the same on a cozy sofa with my 56" HDTV? I am motivated to pull contents from my PC to show on TV, but why the other direction? The only motivation I can imagine for this feature is to use it as a workaround to feed contents from one HR20 to the TV in the other room that was connected to an HR21.
> 
> 2. Doesn't the ironclad method of locking the contents up just kills the coolness of watching my contents when I am not home? I first thought the point was to prevent the customer base to be penetrated by Dish's Slingbox, but I guess I missed the point on this one, too.


I missed it. Has there been anything said that leads us to believe that the watching of a program on you computer (or laptop) has to happen while your at home and hooked up to your LAN (streaming from the HR2X)?


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## danielb6752 (Sep 9, 2006)

Hmm, i wonder what the extra USB and Ethernet ports are for on the PC tuner? They're on there, but not listed in the inputs/outputs.

Yeah yeah, I know it's cheaper to just add 'em now than to wish they were there later, just like that inconspicuous ethernet port on the H21...

Great work pounding the pavement today, guys!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

The official threads are open now ...

Ces2008 - Hdpc20

CES2008: AM21 - ATSC Tuner Add-On for the HR21

CES2008 - DVR Scheduler (Remote Booking)


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> The official threads are open now ...
> 
> Ces2008 - Hdpc20
> 
> ...


Is it me or are all the pics blank.

The links go to the thread but I can't see the pics.

Mike


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

good morning,you guys probably said answered my question on one of the pages, but i am not very a very technical person, but all this talk about am21 and other stuff i dont get it. what does it mean?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes there is a planned price drop to $199 on


Price protection?


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Guys, this is the first time in years I wish I'd gone to CES (I hated the madhouse that is the CE Show). I'll meet you at the bar in the Riviera.



PoitNarf said:


> dbsdave said:
> 
> 
> > No, not going to get excited about media center and directv.....been down that road too many times only to have my heart broken again and again.
> ...


2017 - The Year of the Marriage of Your TV and Your Computer


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## EricRobins (Feb 9, 2005)

Any chance the PC-deely will allow remote viewing, ala Slingbox?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

EricRobins said:


> Any chance the PC-deely will allow remote viewing, ala Slingbox?


Probably on the same LAN... but very little chance out side the local LAN

Unless Media Center offers some sort of similar feature


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

ToddD said:


> I hate to break it to you but there is only one modern DVR with DLB and that is Tivo.
> 
> Moto and SA cable boxes are SLB....
> 
> ...


You are just flat out wrong about Moto being SLB. The Moto 6412/6416 with iguide software (which both Comcast and Insight use) is DLB.

See the DLB thread, I have posted the link to the user manual detailing the feature a couple of times and have personally used it several times with Insight.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I've seen tons of exciting new information so far on equipment.

Thank you DBSTalk superteam on the ground!

Besides Remote Booking and DOD, was there any more info on services (2008 pricing, new channels, etc.)?


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## ToddD (Jun 14, 2006)

raott said:


> You are just flat out wrong about Moto being SLB. The Moto 6412/6416 with iguide software (which both Comcast and Insight use) is DLB.
> 
> See the DLB thread, I have posted the link to the user manual detailing the feature a couple of times and have personally used it several times with Insight.


point is this ...Directv does not have DLB any more and will not....let's end this point -counter point....it's off topic


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

ToddD said:


> point is this ...Directv does not have DLB any more and will not....let's end this point -counter point....it's off topic


Which is why I pointed you to the DLB thread. A number of users asked for the DLB question to be posed at CES.

You went off topic when someone inquired if the question was asked by providing an editorial followed by inaccurate information.

I (and others) simply corrected your inaccurate information and pointed you to the DLB thread.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Probably on the same LAN... but very little chance out side the local LAN
> 
> Unless Media Center offers some sort of similar feature


You actually should be able to use this if you configure VPN at home. I know my router has VPN capabilities so I can remotely get on my lan. Once you are connected and on your lan (as far as your router is concerned) I doubt this software would know any different.

Also, somebody posted about webguide, which I hadn't heard of but appears to allow remote viewing with MCE. Looks cool.


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> What you are describing isn't really Dual LIVE Buffer.
> 
> With the old TiVo boxes, you didn't have to PAUSE the current channel to switch to the other buffer. You just changed the channel and could rewind immediately.


I could do the exact same thing with my Moto box


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

bakerfall said:


> You actually should be able to use this if you configure VPN at home. I know my router has VPN capabilities so I can remotely get on my lan. Once you are connected and on your lan (as far as your router is concerned) I doubt this software would know any different.
> 
> Also, somebody posted about webguide, which I hadn't heard of but appears to allow remote viewing with MCE. Looks cool.


But even with VPN, who has the bandwith (both up at their home and down somewhere else) to do it? Don't see that happening for years..


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

houskamp said:


> But even with VPN, who has the bandwith (both up at their home and down somewhere else) to do it? Don't see that happening for years..


Well, considering I use my slingbox over my existing bandwidth, I would think the same will be available. I'm not saying you can stream HD (although some FIOS users might argue that they can), but you should be able to see it.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

bakerfall said:


> Well, considering I use my slingbox over my existing bandwidth, I would think the same will be available. I'm not saying you can stream HD (although some FIOS users might argue that they can), but you should be able to see it.


but then you would have to downconvert it too..


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Assuming you had the bandwidth, the easiest way might be to remotely accessing your desktop running the HR20 emulator. That should solve the transcoding issue. /steve


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

Steve said:


> Assuming you had the bandwidth, the easiest way might be to remotely accessing your desktop running the HR20 emulator. That should solve the transcoding issue. /steve


Not really. If bandwidth isn't an issue, then VPNing in won't be one. If it is an issue, then the quality is going to suffer either way (ever watched video over RDP when you didn't have adequate bandwidth?)

My guess is it won't work as well remotely as Sling because Sling is specifically made to do that and has tweaked codecs made specifically for optimal quality over limited bandwidth. I doubt D* is spending the time to do the same.


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## yaksplat (Dec 12, 2006)

bakerfall said:


> Well, considering I use my slingbox over my existing bandwidth, I would think the same will be available. I'm not saying you can stream HD (although some FIOS users might argue that they can), but you should be able to see it.


$70/month through Fios will get you 20Mbps up and 20Mbps down. That would just about handle HD. If you assume that an hour of HD is about 9 GB, 20 Mbps would handle a file that size at its theoretical maximum transfer rate. However, it'd be easier to transfer the file and the watch it later. A buffer would be the best option.


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

yaksplat said:


> $70/month through Fios will get you 20Mbps up and 20Mbps down. That would just about handle HD. If you assume that an hour of HD is about 9 GB, 20 Mbps would handle a file that size at its theoretical maximum transfer rate. However, it'd be easier to transfer the file and the watch it later. A buffer would be the best option.


I agree that transferring the file would be the best option, but it has already been said that this is strictly a streaming solution.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

flipptyfloppity said:


> HR-whatever Pro is a joke without 1080p output. One of the things the higher price should bring is freedom from having to endure the screen adjustments of native mode and having 720p downrezzed to 1080i (effectively 720i) or 1080i downrezzed to 720p (effectively 720i).
> 
> ATSC is a near-necessity too.


1080p will not fix this issue. Native mode, though it annoys you, is the way to best handle this.

And if you do the math (using horizontal and vertical resolution), you will see that it is not nearly as simple as assuming it is 720i.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

yaksplat said:


> $70/month through Fios will get you 20Mbps up and 20Mbps down. That would just about handle HD. If you assume that an hour of HD is about 9 GB, 20 Mbps would handle a file that size at its theoretical maximum transfer rate. However, it'd be easier to transfer the file and the watch it later. A buffer would be the best option.


Main point here "70$ will get _you_ 20/20" you would still need that at the other end and all the way in between.. pretty hard to come by..


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Is it me or are all the pics blank.
> 
> The links go to the thread but I can't see the pics.
> 
> Mike


Might have been a work in progress. The pics in those threads all loaded fine for me.


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## loudo (Mar 24, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes there is a planned price drop to $199 on Jan. 10.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Tom, is that the HR21 as well as the HR20?


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

loudo said:


> Tom, is that the HR21 as well as the HR20?


I believe the announcement was only for the HR21. My guess is it will signal the end of the HR20.


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## jdmac29 (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks 
jdmac29


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The DBSTalk team is working hard out there.........honest.......


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

loudo said:


> Tom, is that the HR21 as well as the HR20?


Probably just the HR21, since it doesn't include the extra cost of the ATSC tuner. /steve


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## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

jdmac29 said:


> Thanks
> jdmac29


I SECOND THAT!!!!

:goodjob:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tony4d said:


> Gee, are we that hard up around here now that a sense of humor isn't allowed?


Not really, just that a lot of us here are old farts and don't really understand what you say when you use text-speak on the forum  :lol:


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

bakerfall said:


> I believe the announcement was only for the HR21. My guess is it will signal the end of the HR20.


Can we wait for an announcement on the HR20? It has been declared dead a few dozen times, all of which have been wildly inaccurate.


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## Mykroft (Aug 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> View HR20/21 content on your PC
> -) We can watch PC content on the HR20/21 now... you will be able to do the reverse...


SWEET!!! I have been waiting for this _forever_!!!! :hurah:


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## Skypalace (Nov 12, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> The official threads are open now ...
> 
> (haven't made 5 posts so I can't quote Drew's URL links here)
> 
> ...


What about the PC Video Access (HD streaming to a PC), is there a separate post, and/or more info (like availability, etc.).

I assume it'll just require that the PC and the streaming device (HR20/HR21) be on the same network with sufficient bandwidth, and some type of software install to the PC?


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## Mykroft (Aug 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Probably on the same LAN... but very little chance out side the local LAN
> 
> Unless Media Center offers some sort of similar feature


Even with content recorded on Media Center, there is a free component called WebGuide that not only adds remote scheduling via the web to any media center, but it also does streaming of your recordings and local music and videos on the web.

Downside is that I don't think it works at all with DVR-MS *protected* content, so it may be a dud with this new HDPC-20 product. (The streaming part anyway)


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

HDPC-20 product

Dream come true,Must have one !!


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## tharron (Nov 2, 2007)

Dusty said:


> Any words on MRV?
> 
> If we can view programs on PC, why not on a different HR20/21?


You should be able to using the new Video features in the current CE's, since the Media playback over a network works using DNLA.


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## tharron (Nov 2, 2007)

Thaedron said:


> Also the note about it being a streaming solution holds hope that the H2Xs can serve as clients too!


Holy crap that would be nice..

Does the H2X actually have an ethernet port? I have one in my basement, haven't looked and don't recall. I do remember a USB port tho.


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

tharron said:


> Holy crap that would be nice..
> 
> Does the H2X actually have an ethernet port? I have one in my basement, haven't looked and don't recall. I do remember a USB port tho.


H20=no
H21=yes


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## nc88keyz (Aug 12, 2007)

I think its always been directv's intention to use the H20 as thin clients. We shall see though. Even with a USB to ethernet adapter we should be in good shape. Those of us who were early adopters of the H20s will appreciate this options. 

If not, well thats what retention is for. Call em up. They should hear from you minimum twice a year to get your money's worth.


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## openhelix (Jan 8, 2008)

agreed NC88. Retention is your friend


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## gahenry (Jan 9, 2008)

So the question that I am dying to know is:

I have one HR20 and one HR21 Will I ever be able to share programs between the two devices?


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## bakerfall (Aug 23, 2006)

gahenry said:


> So the question that I am dying to know is:
> 
> I have one HR20 and one HR21 Will I ever be able to share programs between the two devices?


Yes. That is MRV (multi room viewing) and Earl has stated multiple times (including in this thread) that it will exist for the HR2X series.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

tharron said:


> You should be able to using the new Video features in the current CE's, since the Media playback over a network works using DNLA.


How?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Wondering out loud if DirecTV might adopt something like the new slick Web-based streaming software (XStreamHD) to accelerate DOD streams to various DVR units, and perhaps as the foundation for MRV.....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Wondering out loud if DirecTV might adopt something like the new slick Web-based streaming software (XStreamHD) to accelerate DOD streams to various DVR units, and perhaps as the foundation for MRV.....


From the XStreamHD press conference.... what I could gather from the brief description... is some new technology that they have developed.

MRV doesn't need a new foundation, unless you want all the work they have done up to now to be tossed...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

As for this thread...

I am closing it, as we have dedicated discussion threads for each of the things we started in this quick hit thread.


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