# DirectTV Techs: Policy Makes Lying Part Of Job



## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

Some Central Florida DirectTV satellite technicians seek out the Problem Solvers to fight a company policy they say creates an environment where lying to customers is part of the job.

http://www.local6.com/money/9142100/detail.html


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Once again, DTV's choice of poor installation companies burn them.


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## junki (Feb 19, 2004)

Wolffpack said:


> Once again, DTV's choice of poor installation companies burn them.


( poor installation companies ) its going on with every HSP installation companies across the country


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I guess this makes up for me lying to the CSR's when they ask if a phone line is connected or not.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

> The technicians said their supervisors have been putting pressure on them by deducting $5 from their paychecks for every DirectTV receiver that's not connected to a phone line, the report said.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Don't have a choice? Yeah, right.
Here's a choice: just connect the d--- phone line.
Even if the phone line doesn't have active phone service, just connect it.


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

According to an article at, www.local6.com/problemsolvers/9142100/detail.html 
Direct TV installers have been told to lie to customers about having a telephone line hooked up to there receivers.
Some even saying to tell the customer if you don't hook up a telephone line to the receiver it will BLOW UP. Now the state Attorney Generals Office in Florida is going to take a look at Direct TV's deceptive practices against the public.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

What a crock.

1) Read the fraking contract you agree to with DirecTV.... It states you must keep a phone line connected to the reciever 24/7. Just because the unit works without a constant phone line, does mean it won't work... it just means that it isn't lieing.

As for the "blowing up", I can't phatom that it is a DirecTV "policy" to use that as a reason. There are plenty "valid" reasons why it needs to be hooked into, PPV, Special packages, mirroring fees... ect.

DirecTV doesn't tracck viewer habits via the phone... with the exception of the "TiVo" powered units, and that is during the "TiVo" phone call..... and it is aggregated information.

After the Attorney General in Florida wastes their time.... they will probably find that it is a disgruntalled installer company.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

These companies not only charge back $5 per receiver, but will also cut back on the tech's workload if he doesn't install phone lines. Meaning it will cost him a lot more money than the $5 a box if he doesn't make sure the phone lines are connected and working properly.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

I think the "fraud" portion comes in when d* advertises a "free" install then tries to tell the customer they have to get a "50 dollar" phone jack installed for the receiver to work..to me that is an abomination


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

juan ellitinez said:


> I think the "fraud" portion comes in when d* advertises a "free" install then tries to tell the customer they have to get a "50 dollar" phone jack installed for the receiver to work..to me that is an abomination


Should they also offer the TV if your's doesn't happen to have the necessary connections for the "free" installation ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TigersFanJJ said:


> These companies not only charge back $5 per receiver, but will also cut back on the tech's workload if he doesn't install phone lines. Meaning it will cost him a lot more money than the $5 a box if he doesn't make sure the phone lines are connected and working properly.


Now is that "DirecTV" directly working with a Tech...

Or the Installer's Company, relationship with their installer...

Installing is not a fun gig.. .it rarely goes smoothly.

But from everything I have seen, it nets out...

For each nightmare install, there is one like mine, where I had the wire sitting there to be hooked to the dish... and they are gone in 20 minutes, vs multiple hours.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> After the Attorney General in Florida wastes their time.... they will probably find that it is a disgruntalled installer company.


It is Dtv that are charging back these dealers (who in turn, charge back the techs). While I agree that phone lines should be installed if needed, doing this is ridiculous.

Dtv sends a signal to the receiver usually within the first 24 hours after activation for the receiver to dial in to verify the lines were installed. If they don't, then the tech gets charged back. So Joe Blow with his 4 box install (that he ordered through Dtv) will cost the tech $20 because Joe doesn't have land based phone service. This is B.S.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Now is that "DirecTV" directly working with a Tech...
> 
> Or the Installer's Company, relationship with their installer...
> 
> ...


The cutting back on the workload is the dealer to the installer. Charging back on the phone lines comes from Dtv, and filters it's way down the line. One can only believe that Dtv is putting the pressure on the different companies.

Earl, the tech should have thanked you, because installs like yours are few and far between. I think it's safe to say that the correct ratio is more like seven nightmare installs for everyone that is like yours.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Should they also offer the TV if your's doesn't happen to have the necessary connections for the "free" installation ?


Please explain "why" they need a phone line mine has worked perfectly for years without one


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I agree that people should read the contract. The reality however is that they often do not and they really on the CSR on the phone and/or the installer to tell them what it means. If the allegation is true that D* is instructing installers to lie that is wrong.

And I agree with Juan that some of the ads for "Free installation" are a bit misleading. I think that many consumers know that they need a TV but it is less obvious that they needa land line phone connection to watch TV.


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## zipbags (Oct 14, 2005)

When my dvr was installed they said I had to hook it up to a phone line. Which was completely across the room. He wanted to charge me $75 for a wireless connector. I told him no thanks. And ran a telephone wire across the floor. I went to a local store who said the wireless unit was $20. Luckily, I found out I didn't need the hookup before I bought it.


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## JohnVT (Jan 30, 2005)

So what IS the real reason D* wants the phone line? Is it just to ensure that the boxes are IN my house? All of my boxes are in the house, but not all are conveniently close enough to a phone line. 
What am I missing out on by not having them hooked to the phone? Just PPV by remote? Website is just as easy for that... Something else??

thanks


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

The article is about DTV telling lies to its customers. Not about a contract saying you need a phone line connected. But then DTV could tell the truth up front and say. No phone No connect. DTV had an installer snitch them off for there crooked ways and about lying. Its not about a contract. But then some think that DTV or Dish can walk on water and do no wrong.


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

Regarding the phone line:
Doesn't D* say in their ads that a phone line IS required for some of their exclusive programming? NFL Sunday Ticket comes to mind here.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

JohnVT said:


> So what IS the real reason D* wants the phone line? Is it just to ensure that the boxes are IN my house?


Yes, that is one (and possibly the only) purpose.


> What am I missing out on by not having them hooked to the phone?


They may, as E* has done, institute a fee for non-connected advanced receivers in which case you might be charged some extra monthly fees.

The question that remains is whether the fact that the CSR told you, the installer told you and the contract states that you must have a phone line connected precludes the "I didn't know" argument.

I'm of a mind that if the "Professional Installation" doesn't include connection to a phone line, that DirecTV has a weak case for holding the subscriber responsible for having the line connected.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There is a difference between making them "lie"...
And the installer "lie" to avoid a kickback.

With the "sub-contractor" model, there is always going to be issues like this.

Do you honestly think, DirecTV (and Dish) would risk their business over a "lie".

When I got DirecTV 10 years ago, the phone line was used to monitor Mirroring.
Then the PPV, and then the sports / extra packages.

Basically 10 years ago, the landscape was different.
You ONLY had a POTS line... You didn't have VoIP, Cell, 4 "POTS" lines in the house on different numbers.

We will probably see a "formal" change to the phone line policy in the comming years.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

zipbags said:


> When my dvr was installed they said I had to hook it up to a phone line. Which was completely across the room. He wanted to charge me $75 for a wireless connector. I told him no thanks. And ran a telephone wire across the floor. I went to a local store who said the wireless unit was $20. Luckily, I found out I didn't need the hookup before I bought it.


Not all wireless phone adapters are equal. For the DVR you need one that is capable of working with an analog modem / fax machine / etc. Typically those are a bit more costly, however $20 versus $75 is a rather wide spread.

Carl


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Basically 10 years ago, the landscape was different.
> You ONLY had a POTS line... You didn't have VoIP, Cell, 4 "POTS" lines in the house on different numbers.


Actually, when I first got Directv the first time, about 10 years ago, I did have 4 POTS lines in my house. At the time, I had only one D* receiver, but I connected it to one of the lines that was dedicated to modem use, rather than my primary voice line. D* actually called me and challenged me on the phone number my unit was connected to. Oh, and I also had a cell phone back then. But no VOIP.

Carl


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## matty8199 (Dec 4, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Should they also offer the TV if your's doesn't happen to have the necessary connections for the "free" installation ?


Come on Earl, that's gotta be the most asinine comparison I've ever heard. What TV exactly would not have the necessary connections to install a D* STB? They all have RF out, no?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

matty8199 said:


> Come on Earl, that's gotta be the most asinine comparison I've ever heard. What TV exactly would not have the necessary connections to install a D* STB? They all have RF out, no?


I purchased this HD reciever hoping to get HD content....
What do you mean I need to have Component or DVI/HDMI?

I know of at least three people that have a TV that are HD TV's.... that DirecTV (and actually most vendors) boxes can not hook up to.... (older Mitsu)

It was an "Extreme" example yes.... and was more addressed at the notion of where does "free installation" end.

Now when I think about it.... MY $7000 PLASMA TV doesn't have an RF input on it....

It probably isn't going to happen any time soon, but what if the RF inputs on TV go the way of the "floppy drive" on a PC ?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It probably isn't going to happen any time soon, but what if the RF inputs on TV go the way of the "floppy drive" on a PC ?


Unless you can come up with a different wireless alternative to broadcast television with about 75MHz of bandwidth or so, I don't think the F connector is threatened at all.

It is more likely that the set-top box will go away and be replaced with something like CableCard.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

I don't know about the RF inputs on the TVs (though many production and broadast monitors have been without them for decades), but no presently available D* HD receiver has RF outputs. If you want HD, you better have Y/pB/pR or HDMI/DVI in on your TV, and for SD you'll need either composite or S-video in.


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## blue (Jan 23, 2003)

Nearly 40 DirectTV Techs Fired After Local 6 Report
Installers Disclose Policy They Say Forced Them To Lie To Customers

POSTED: 10:47 pm EDT May 4, 2006
UPDATED: 11:26 am EDT May 5, 2006

http://www.local6.com/news/9164122/detail.html


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Now... who fired them?

The installer company that they work for? 
Or did DirecTV drop the entire installation company?

The article makes it seem that they where employees (aka got their pay check FROM DirecTV) of DirecTV.....

Which I am not aware that DirecTV actually employes the installers, they have authorized installers that they work with...
Correct?


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## DustoMan (Jul 16, 2005)

Regardless of DirectTV's policy, I think it's wrong to take away $5 from their employees for every reciever that they do not get a customer to connect to a phoneline.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

DustoMan.

That one I would agree with... Maybe $5 extra if it IS connected to a phone line.

But again, I don't think they are DirecTV employees


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## rifleman69 (Nov 14, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The article makes it seem that they where employees (aka got their pay check FROM DirecTV) of DirecTV.....
> 
> Which I am not aware that DirecTV actually employes the installers, they have authorized installers that they work with...
> Correct?


Out here in Oregon/SW Washington, Ironwood Communications does most of the installs and other calls for servicing. But DirecTV has their own installers with DirecTV trucks/vans who also do the servicing as well (don't know about installs), and they are paid from DirecTV DIRECTLY. I don't think Oregon is the only state/place where this is the case either.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Hmmm...

Here in Illinois (At least on the SouthSide of Chicago)... 
There are "DirecTV" branded (big time) trucks.

However, in tiny print on the door of the truck, it says APEX ... which is the installer company.

I guess each region, area, is different.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

rifleman69 said:


> Out here in Oregon/SW Washington, Ironwood Communications does most of the installs and other calls for servicing. But DirecTV has their own installers with DirecTV trucks/vans who also do the servicing as well (don't know about installs), and they are paid from DirecTV DIRECTLY. I don't think Oregon is the only state/place where this is the case either.


Ironwood installers here in Phoenix also run around in their big DTV wrapped vans. New vans and look nice, but still Ironwood.


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## kay (Nov 27, 2005)

wow


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## UnnDunn (Oct 27, 2002)

Apparently those techs got fired for "blowing the whistle."

I know why DirecTV likes the phone line in there, but why does it push so hard on the phone line issue?


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

UnnDunn said:


> I know why DirecTV likes the phone line in there, but why does it push so hard on the phone line issue?


If you read the two articles carefully, it is not _DirecTV_ forcing the issue (bold is mine for emphasis):


> A large group of DirectTV technicians traveled to Local 6 studios to talk about being pressured to sell systems connected to phone lines.
> 
> The technicians said *their supervisors have been putting pressure on them by deducting $5 from their paychecks for every DirectTV receiver that's not connected to a phone line*, the report said.
> 
> ...


Neither of those articles said is it *DirecTV* causing the issue, it clearly states that it is the *technician's supervisors*.


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## GregStanfield (Mar 11, 2005)

As said before, just connect the phone line. If there is no phone line, run one. It is written in our contract that we will connect a phone line to each receiver we install...Period.... Even if there is no home phone service. All the tech has to do is tell the CSR that the customer does not have home phone service. It would suprise you how many tech say that the customer refused phone lines on the install. Then I have the customer tell me that they would like them when I do a QC on the job. Most technicians only tell the customer they are for PPV only.


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Here in Illinois (At least on the SouthSide of Chicago)...
> There are "DirecTV" branded (big time) trucks.
> ...


My last installer was APEX (name on receipt) I've never had a worse install:eek2: He couldn't get out fast enough, and gazed at the ceiling when I showed him the S-Video cable, which was already hooked to the TV.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

GregStanfield said:


> As said before, just connect the phone line. If there is no phone line, run one. It is written in our contract that we will connect a phone line to each receiver we install...Period.... Even if there is no home phone service. All the tech has to do is tell the CSR that the customer does not have home phone service. It would suprise you how many tech say that the customer refused phone lines on the install. Then I have the customer tell me that they would like them when I do a QC on the job. Most technicians only tell the customer they are for PPV only.


You must not work for Mastec? 
(known by some D* CSR's as "missed tech")


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## Dave (Jan 29, 2003)

It seems as if the DTV story in Florida has moved to the next step. DTV's installer MASTEC has started firing the employees for talking to the news media in Orlando about lying to its customers. They say about FORTY installers have been fired. This would appear to be a get even with the installers for telling the truth to the media. www.local6.com/problemsolvers/9164122/detail.html
I guess if your business is as big as DTV, you can fire and hire installers on a whim. Yet another reason people in Florida will not get DTV or Dish and stay with cable. Also another great commercial for cable to exploit Dish and Directs methods of doing business with their customers and lying to their customers. Please remember the first story was about DTV telling their installers to lie to its customers.


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## sandi916 (Apr 8, 2006)

Interesting story. I was installed in March by DirecTech in the NY area and was told I needed a phone line or the R15 would not work properly. I didn't want to pay Verizon $200 to run a second phone line, and DirecTech said it was my responsibility so I ran one myself.


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## Skip Towne (Dec 20, 2003)

I have been installing the small dish since 1996. I can tell you from experience that if ANYTHING changes about the customers phone service after the install, it is the tech's fault. I had one customer who had webtv claim it caused him a large long distance bill since his webtv suddenly started dialing a non local number. Yeah, right! And the techs are being required to run phone lines for free. If they are going to require the phone lines, they should pay for it.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Dave said:


> It seems as if the DTV story in Florida has moved to the next step. DTV's installer MASTEC has started firing the employees for talking to the news media in Orlando about lying to its customers. They say about FORTY installers have been fired. This would appear to be a get even with the installers for telling the truth to the media. www.local6.com/problemsolvers/9164122/detail.html
> I guess if your business is as big as DTV, you can fire and hire installers on a whim. Yet another reason people in Florida will not get DTV or Dish and stay with cable. Also another great commercial for cable to exploit Dish and Directs methods of doing business with their customers and lying to their customers. Please remember the first story was about DTV telling their installers to lie to its customers.


IT REALLY IS A SHAME people think a contractor(MASTEC) is Directv. It is sort of like saying because I got Firestone tires on my FORD Firestone is part of FORD.


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## Skip Towne (Dec 20, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Now is that "DirecTV" directly working with a Tech...
> 
> Or the Installer's Company, relationship with their installer...
> 
> ...


 20 mintes? Exaggerate much? The activation phone call takes longer than that.


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

Mine didn't. Like Earl, I had EVERYTHING ready when the guy showed up to install my R15. All he had to do was hook it up, I helped with that, and then call in to activate. All done in less than 20 minutes. But, as I always say, your mileage may vary.



Skip Towne said:


> 20 mintes? Exaggerate much? The activation phone call takes longer than that.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

boba said:


> IT REALLY IS A SHAME people think a contractor(MASTEC) is Directv. It is sort of like saying because I got Firestone tires on my FORD Firestone is part of FORD.


So what you are saying is that it wasn't really Ford's problem a few years ago when the Firestone tires that the Ford Explorers had were exploding, causing wrecks?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Skip Towne said:


> 20 mintes? Exaggerate much? The activation phone call takes longer than that.


Okay.. So like 30 minutes.
My activation calls have NEVER taken more then 20 minutes. (Seriously)
And I have probably activated/deactivated over a dozen boxes in the last 18 months or so


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

To set up an actual new customer with new service, IF they havent done the pre-choosing of the package like the welcome package suggests, does take 30 minutes or more....


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> So what you are saying is that it wasn't really Ford's problem a few years ago when the Firestone tires that the Ford Explorers had were exploding, causing wrecks?


The point was that Ford and Firestone are two different companies! Mastec and Direct are two different companies. The employees involved worked for Mastec. Mastec told them to lie. The MASTEC employees went on tv and blew the whistle. Mastec fired their employees. That doesn't seem too hard to understand.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Whistleblowers lose their jobs!!!!!!

http://www.local6.com/problemsolvers/9164122/detail.html


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Several threads already running with this topic.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> Several threads already running with this topic.


Not to mention that link has been posted several times already IN THIS THREAD!!!


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Badger said:


> The point was that Ford and Firestone are two different companies! Mastec and Direct are two different companies. The employees involved worked for Mastec. Mastec told them to lie. The MASTEC employees went on tv and blew the whistle. Mastec fired their employees. That doesn't seem too hard to understand.


I got your point, but Dtv is responsible for what is going on with their subcontractors. I too have basically been told to lie if that's what it takes to get the phone lines installed. I DO NOT work for Mastec, so it's only logical to think that this is coming from higher up than the dealers themself.

And anyone that says to just run the phone line is clueless as to how things work out in the field.

In my area, about 60% of new installs and movers connects are on brand new (pre-wired with RG-6) homes due to hurricane Katrina. About 98% of customers know ahead of time that they don't have to have a phone line connected in order to get Dtv service. It is impossible to convince most of those customers to run phone lines down the outside of their wall of their brand new home (and rightly so when Dtv will tell them that a phone connection isn't needed). And there's no way they are going to pay for a wall fish just for the phone line, nor am I going to fish the wall for free. So I get screwed.


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> I got your point, but Dtv is responsible for what is going on with their subcontractors. I too have basically been told to lie if that's what it takes to get the phone lines installed. I DO NOT work for Mastec, so it's only logical to think that this is coming from higher up than the dealers themself.
> 
> And anyone that says to just run the phone line is clueless as to how things work out in the field.
> 
> In my area, about 60% of new installs and movers connects are on brand new (pre-wired with RG-6) homes due to hurricane Katrina. About 98% of customers know ahead of time that they don't have to have a phone line connected in order to get Dtv service. It is impossible to convince most of those customers to run phone lines down the outside of their wall of their brand new home (and rightly so when Dtv will tell them that a phone connection isn't needed). And there's no way they are going to pay for a wall fish just for the phone line, nor am I going to fish the wall for free. So I get screwed.


Just curious, who told you to lie? I've always had a phone line that I ran myself connected to my main H10 stb but never to my other 2 bedroom stb's. Is it usual for the techs that work for contractors like Mastec to be paid piecework rather than a hourly wage or salary? It seems by the posts that Mastec was being paid by Direct to put in a phone line as part of the install or else had $'s deducted from Directs end for not putting in the line. They then deducted $5 from the techs pay. Sounds to me like Mastec wanted the extra money for fished lines and penalized the techs for not talking the people into it. I agree with you if you do a fished line it's extra from the customer. If part of your agreement with Direct cals for a simple phone line install then that's what they should get and anything beyond that is extra to the customer. My experiences with installer techs has always been great and I sure as heck wouldn't want their jobs. It just seems to me that if this was Directs doings all techs would be in the same boat and I think this whole deal falls on Mastecs shoulders.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Not to mention that link has been posted several times already IN THIS THREAD!!!


I have been merging the posts, so JLuc's post was replying to another thread that was started...

I think there has been about 6 threads merged now.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

juan ellitinez said:


> I think the "fraud" portion comes in when d* advertises a "free" install then tries to tell the customer they have to get a "50 dollar" phone jack installed for the receiver to work..to me that is an abomination


I totally agree,but that's exactly what the installer,for E*,told me,in Jan. 2002.

Anyone,who has a phone jack,and won't hook it up,is probably stacking.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Badger said:


> Just curious, who told you to lie? I've always had a phone line that I ran myself connected to my main H10 stb but never to my other 2 bedroom stb's. Is it usual for the techs that work for contractors like Mastec to be paid piecework rather than a hourly wage or salary? It seems by the posts that Mastec was being paid by Direct to put in a phone line as part of the install or else had $'s deducted from Directs end for not putting in the line. They then deducted $5 from the techs pay. Sounds to me like Mastec wanted the extra money for fished lines and penalized the techs for not talking the people into it. I agree with you if you do a fished line it's extra from the customer. If part of your agreement with Direct cals for a simple phone line install then that's what they should get and anything beyond that is extra to the customer. My experiences with installer techs has always been great and I sure as heck wouldn't want their jobs. It just seems to me that if this was Directs doings all techs would be in the same boat and I think this whole deal falls on Mastecs shoulders.


It isn't coming only from Mastec. I sub through a different major dealer and we are going through the exact same thing, except we haven't been told to say the receivers will blow up if the phone line isn't connected.

I don't mind and will run the phone line unless the customer flat out refuses to let me run them. But I shouldn't be penalized for these customers. Especially when the customer calls Dtv while I'm at his home and I hear Dtv tell them (and me) that a land line isn't required.

As I see it, if it is going to be like this, then I should be allowed to charge the customer the $5 per receiver that I am getting charged back. This way Dtv would know that the option of running the line was truly offered to the customer and it really was refused.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I have been merging the posts, so JLuc's post was replying to another thread that was started...
> 
> I think there has been about 6 threads merged now.


Yeah, I noticed that after I made that post. Sorry.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Yeah, I noticed that after I made that post. Sorry.


No biggie... just wanted to let everyone know..


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## mangocat (May 10, 2006)

What if the customer simply does not have a landline phone?

I'm moving real soon and am looking in to Dtv. My home phone line is of the voIP type. The voIP hardware will NOT be in the same room (or the same floor for that matter) as my TV. What happens in my case?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

In general... for you as a customer... 
Nothing really..

VoIP does work with a lot of the DirecTV recievers out there.


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## DirecTVtech (Dec 10, 2004)

First of all as many other installers have said in this thread, this phone line demand is coming from the higher up's at DTV, not from the home service provider company's. I do agree that the phone line charge backs are outragous. The main reason for phones is Pay per views, I do believe that whether they admit to it or not. The other reason is in the future, DTV hopes to have an ability to dial your reciever and access faults and issues with it before they send a service tech out on a service call. Also they are requesting phone lines for there interactive service available on the newer model recievers where you can access lottery numbers, weather info etc. This came from one of the highest up's at DirecTech NE, from my time there. However, take that info as far as you would like. I quit there due to lies, charge backs, and frequent pay cuts through out the company. One of those reasons that I just posted I know to be a lie, because I can access all of the interactive services on ALL of my recievers at home, and have NEVER had a phone line!


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

mangocat said:


> What if the customer simply does not have a landline phone?
> 
> I'm moving real soon and am looking in to Dtv. My home phone line is of the voIP type. The voIP hardware will NOT be in the same room (or the same floor for that matter) as my TV. What happens in my case?


Mangocat, this situation and those where people have decided to use only cell phone service are the main gripes from the technicians. In these cases, Dtv and the HSPs still want the technician to install the phone lines, even though they will NEVER be used.

However, you do not have to have the landline to receive Dtv programming. Just do your tech a big favor. If he has to get you to talk to Dtv or a job closure center for his HSP and they ask you if the phone line is connected, tell them that he did connect the line but you don't have land based phone service.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

DirecTVtech said:


> First of all as many other installers have said in this thread, this phone line demand is coming from the higher up's at DTV, not from the home service provider company's. I do agree that the phone line charge backs are outragous. The main reason for phones is Pay per views, I do believe that whether they admit to it or not. The other reason is in the future, DTV hopes to have an ability to dial your reciever and access faults and issues with it before they send a service tech out on a service call. Also they are requesting phone lines for there interactive service available on the newer model recievers where you can access lottery numbers, weather info etc. This came from one of the highest up's at DirecTech NE, from my time there. However, take that info as far as you would like. I quit there due to lies, charge backs, and frequent pay cuts through out the company. One of those reasons that I just posted I know to be a lie, because I can access all of the interactive services on ALL of my recievers at home, and have NEVER had a phone line!


There is already one interactive service that *requires* a phone line. 
Granted, it is an ad, but the ad for the Dodge Caliber requires a phone connection for you to request the info DVD.


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## DirecTVtech (Dec 10, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> There is already one interactive service that *requires* a phone line.
> Granted, it is an ad, but the ad for the Dodge Caliber requires a phone connection for you to request the info DVD.


What a big loss!!!rolling


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

DirecTVtech said:


> What a big loss!!!rolling


Valid point, but I was just pointing out that your previous post was inacurrate ("One of those reasons that I just posted I know to be a lie, because I can access all of the interactive services on ALL of my recievers at home, and have NEVER had a phone line!"), that the this does suggest that future interactive services may need the phone line.


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## pomeroy (Jan 3, 2005)

If I was a Directv installer and they were going to charge back my pay for people not having the phone line hooked up

1. I would find a wholesaler of those Wireless phone jacks, heck you can get them on ebay for nothing. and hook them up my self, of coarse the customer could unhook it and throw them in the trash after you left but that would at least be better than nothing. Heck your job is on the line! You don't sit there and let them add up a few hundred dollars. you got to do what you got to do.  

2. As much money as Directv makes they could do the samething and supply the installers with wireless phone jacks. That would solve this whole thing. or at least pull the numbers in where Directv is happy with the results.

I was considering getting a job as a Directv installer I don't know now?


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## DirecTVtech (Dec 10, 2004)

I know that, I was trying defending DTV to a point. But also trying to make the point that lies are commonly presented from DirecTV to the HSP's and installers all the time, causing me to question there answers. For example we were told you would not get software updates without a phone line. So far that is bull, and any tech know that. We were also told by DTV that you could not optain your forecast without the phone line, also bull. Phone lines should be installed, it is in the contract. But lyeing does not help. Nor do the pay cuts. 6 years ago I was paid 90 dollars for a 1 room, 1 dish install, when I quit with DirecTech, I was being paid 35 dollars for a 1 room one dish install. We were not allowed to charge the customer for a phone jack install. Do you see where the problem is originating? Also so far, the phone line is ONLY for DTV to make more money. Getting a Dodge add on your TV is bull, it is not a service. By DTV stating that we are denying them there full extent of service is crap, unless of course the customers will be using payper views. Regardless, I am sure if DTV/the HSP's paid a decent wage and treated their employees better, most techs would find a way to get the phone jacks in without having to lye or whine.


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## DirecTVtech (Dec 10, 2004)

pomeroy said:


> If I was a Directv installer and they were going to charge back my pay for people not having the phone line hooked up
> 
> 1. I would find a wholesaler of those Wireless phone jacks, heck you can get them on ebay for nothing. and hook them up my self, of coarse the customer could unhook it and throw them in the trash after you left but that would at least be better than nothing. Heck your job is on the line! You don't sit there and let them add up a few hundred dollars. you got to do what you got to do.
> 
> ...


That would work to a point, however a couple of problems. Tivo's do not work with a wireless jack, not sure about the new DirecTV Plus DVR's. Also, if the customer pulls the phone jack as soon as you leave, you still get charged back. The way direcTV works it is......Within a month after you install the IRD, they will send a signal to the receivers through the dish asking them to call back. If the customers yanked some or all of the phone lines, they don't call in and DirecTV assumes that you did not connect them to the phone jack. The other problem, is many HSP's including the one that I last worked at, you could not charge for a phone jack, so when you give the option to a customer for a wireless jack, that they would pay for, or an installed wired jack that is for free, they would not be getting the wirless. I have considered providing the jacks for free, put with the paycuts, I would lose money.

One thing that I would like to mention that will eliminate much of the complaining, is that DTV is in the process (so they say) of building a reciever with a wireless transmitter inside the IRD. This meens that a four room setup would only need one receiver wired to a phone jack. The other recievers will wirelessly connect to the phone through the primary reciever. I have yet to see a four room set up, where not one TV has a phone line near by. This will eliminate so many problems


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

DirecTVtech said:


> That would work to a point, however a couple of problems. Tivo's do not work with a wireless jack, not sure about the new DirecTV Plus DVR's.


One potential problem is that the wireless jacks usually need to be reset (via an onboard circuit breaker button) after a power outage. This is the case with the wireless jacks I have used in the past.

The DirecTV TiVos and the R15 _do_ work with a wireless phone jack, but only the type that is 56Kbps-capable, like these:

RCA RC930 Caller-ID-Compatible Wireless Modem Jack 
Phonex PX-441 Wireless Phone Jack for Voice and Data


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## pomeroy (Jan 3, 2005)

DirecTVtech said:


> That would work to a point, however a couple of problems. Tivo's do not work with a wireless jack, not sure about the new DirecTV Plus DVR's. I have considered providing the jacks for free, put with the paycuts, I would lose money.


Oops I forgot Tivo/DirectvPlus receivers can't use a wireless jack, Thats right. For the installer The onlyway would be to buy the jacks/phone supplies you needed out of your own pocket and not charge the customer for them, You right you would lose money but if your forced to take a pay cut of a few hundered dollars it would be worth it in the long run. But still thats a bad deal for all the hardworking Directv installers out there

I wonder if Dish Network installers have the same problem? You know there receivers are made so they will go down if the phone line is not connected? and Dish will charge the customer $5 every month if its not connected? I think thats right

Maybe Directv should take some notes from Charlie


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## DirecTVtech (Dec 10, 2004)

> I wonder if Dish Network installers have the same problem? You know there receivers are made so they will go down if the phone line is not connected? and Dish will charge the customer $5 every month if its not connected? I think thats right
> 
> Maybe Directv should take some notes from Charlie


I completly agree, when it all comes down to it the customer is under contract to maintain a working phone line. Key word MAINTAIN! It is there phone system, they pay the bill, myself as an installer, I do not want to be responsible for there phone systems, it can, and has caused problems in the past! When it all comes down to it, the last person that touches something, owns it. The telephone company does not service DTV systems, we should not be servicing/installing theirs!


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

DirecTVtech said:


> When it all comes down to it, the last person that touches something, owns it. The telephone company does not service DTV systems, we should not be servicing/installing theirs!


The power company does not service DTV systems, we should not be ... 
Where does it end?

The simple fact is that D* wants their receivers connected to a phone line.
Yes, maybe they should encourage it via an incentive to customers instead of a punishment to the installers, but it has to start somewhere. 
And since D* has so many installers that actively encourage the customer to _not_ connect the phone line, that is the obvious place to start.


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## DirecTVtech (Dec 10, 2004)

Kheldar said:


> And since D* has so many installers that actively encourage the customer to _not_ connect the phone line, that is the obvious place to start.


Easy said, however underpaid techs are going to talk customers out of anything that is going to speed up their jobs. I used to make 1500 dollars on a good week, 500 dollars on a bad week. Considering I was working some evenings untill midnight, and worked weekends, the pay made it worth it. However, when I go from that to 20,000 dollars a year, with no decrease in work load, 7AM weekly meetings which were not paid for(and I was 2 hours away from the office) traveling 3 hours to a job(not getting paid for travel,) get my point? Some techs in some areas have it easier, but I know in my area I would drive 3-8 HOURS PER DAY. Winters are terrible, Steep icey roofs, treachorous driving conditions, below zero temperatures, and when it gets dark in the winter at three, I generally had 2 or 3 jobs left to complete....in the dark. If they want to start with the techs, bring the pay back to an amount that fits the job. It is the only industry that I have seen where instead of pay raises, you get pay cuts. The following is what I was paid at an HSP 6 years ago compared to now. Install, was 90$, now 35$. Upgrade was 45, now 25, and a service call was 35, and is now 10 dollars. They even expected us to install phone lines at local channel upgrades. A local channel upgrade in this market takes about 2 hours. If the customer has 4 recievers, none of which were ever hooked to a phone line, we are expected to install all four. For 25 dollars. Two hours travel, two hours to do the job, then another two hours to install 4 phone jacks. Six hours for 25 dollars, it does not add up. That is why I quit.


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## MKNY (May 14, 2006)

The installer didn't pressure me he simply asked if I wanted it. But, he is studying to be a computer network tech instead of DTV installer. The DTV CSR simply asked if I had a phone line and I just told her I wasn't interested in the services it provides. I wasn't pressured to connect a phone line. They'd rather have no business from me at all?

Besides, what if I'd dropped the land line in favor of wireless?


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## stevo65 (Mar 17, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> The power company does not service DTV systems, we should not be ...
> Where does it end?
> 
> The simple fact is that D* wants their receivers connected to a phone line.
> ...


Now as a customer who only uses a cell phone orders Directv , will not be penalized for not having phone line ( hard line). The tech who puts in the Directv system for an HSP (mastec) will. ($5 a reciever) . Now weather you make hourly or you get paid per job, do you think it is still right to be charged back for something that is out of your control? *Kind of communist dont you think*? All those techs felt that way, so they did a brave thing by speaking up and letting the public know what kind of *communism* is taking place. And they lost their jobs for it. and they all said they would do it again. God Bless Them


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd fire the whole lot of them too.

They knew what they were going to get paid. Lieing to their customers was their buisness, not the job of the installation company. Has anyone checked the quality of some of the installers out there. I know there are good ones, but there are lots of bad ones out there too! The last one I had didn't even know what a multiswitch was!


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## stevo65 (Mar 17, 2006)

AlbertZeroK said:


> I'd fire the whole lot of them too.
> 
> They knew what they were going to get paid. Lieing to their customers was their buisness, not the job of the installation company. Has anyone checked the quality of some of the installers out there. I know there are good ones, but there are lots of bad ones out there too! The last one I had didn't even know what a multiswitch was!


You sound like one of those supervisors who are tellng the tecs to lie to customers about needing the phones hooked up to the reciever, or if it is not hooked up to the reciever then the reciever will explode. 
Again you are wrong and lying. Tecs do not get paid for phone lines to be hooked up to all recievers, that is free at thier expense. The phone line is only to be installed to the primary reciever only(and within 25 feet) under the contract and as a contractor i know this to be a fact. Also Mastec is in fact charging back 5 dollars a reciever that is not hooked up to a phone line, and that is including cell phone houses.(do you really think that is fair)? a D* rep for a local retailer said that the phone line is not a requirement to all recievers only the primary (if cust wants it). Now that is straight from Directv`s mouth. 
So as for the phone lines to all recievers always have been required is again a lie.
Again phone line installation from D mark to reciever is not taught at the SBCA certification.
SBCA certification covers everything that is required on installs per D* and E*. again no phone lines mentioned

Also what kind of quality techs do you think will work for you at the prices HSP contractors are paying their techs? You will be lucky to find a few.
Having to put in phone lines for free and then hoping the customer will not unplug the phone line from the reciever after you leave or you will be charged back $5 anyways after the hard work of putting a phone line in....I dont think so, the techs you will mostly find are the knuckleheads that do not know what a multiswitch is.:lol:


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## HokieJoe (Apr 23, 2004)

Straight from DirectTV's website:



DirectTV said:


> *For full functionality, DVR requires connection of two (2) satellite inputs from a dual LNB DIRECTV System antenna, and connection to a land-based phone line.


http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/DVR_whydirectvdvr.jsp

Since I use Vonage, I had to call my installer before they installed my system to verify whether or not this was true. The installer stammered a bit, and then told me that it doesn't effect the funtionality of my R15 other than PPV. Does that sound forthright on D*'s part? I don't think so. Their quote should state EXACTLY what functions will be disabled without a land line hooked up.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

HokieJoe said:


> Straight from DirectTV's website:
> 
> http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/DVR_whydirectvdvr.jsp
> 
> Since I use Vonage, I had to call my installer before they installed my system to verify whether or not this was true. The installer stammered a bit, and then told me that it doesn't effect the funtionality of my R15 other than PPV. Does that sound forthright on D*'s part? I don't think so. Their quote should state EXACTLY what functions will be disabled without a land line hooked up.


Their policy is that every receiver be hooked to a phone line and that policy has always been in place for at least as long as I have been with D* (which has been a long time). Now if you don't hook it to the R15 you lose the ability to purchase PPV's using your remote but you can still do it via the phone or online.

If they ever wanted to enforce the phone connection stuff I am guessing they would have the right to disconnect all receivers that don't call in but I highly doubt they would ever do something like this.


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## rabit ears (Nov 18, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> Their policy is that every receiver be hooked to a phone line and that policy has always been in place for at least as long as I have been with D* (which has been a long time). Now if you don't hook it to the R15 you lose the ability to purchase PPV's using your remote but you can still do it via the phone or online.
> 
> If they ever wanted to enforce the phone connection stuff I am guessing they would have the right to disconnect all receivers that don't call in but I highly doubt they would ever do something like this.


I did get disconnected once, several years ago when a DSL to modem line was installed on a bedroom TV. They took down all our service, not just the unit that was directly impacted. D* was very nasty about the incident and while I had discovered and fixed the problem on Saturday, service wasn't restored until a call on Monday.

This was before the acquisition of the company by News Corp., so it can't be blamed on current management. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this policy is reinstated in the next few months.


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

rabit ears said:


> However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this policy is reinstated in the next few months.


I highly doubt it. In todays world, with more people than ever using cell service or VOIP (and more switching every day), Dtv knows that they will lose way too many customers if they were to do this.


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

These are the same losers who tried to rip my gf off for 157 bucks. I got the last laugh and got it reversed. 

To DTVs credit, they told me to get the R15 from a store and I wouldn't need a phone line, also for the MLB package I told them the hurricane knocked out phone service, so they gave me a "wavier"... I haven't had a land line in 6 years. With unlimited cell phone plans here in florida, land lines are like beta max or 8 track players. A while back, DTV told me the land line is to locate where your box is so you can't use a nyc address in florida. Well since they only block out 1 game a season on NFLST they don't requrie the line, however I was told MLB requires it, even though there is technology to locate your box without the LL. They blamed MLB for not useing the new tech. 

at any rate, i've never had a LL and I do used PPV, it's called NETFLIX!


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

saleen351 said:


> .....even though there is technology to locate your box without the LL. They blamed MLB for not useing the new tech.


So how hows that work? I don't see how the receiver has the two way communications to make that work without a land line.

Can someone throw there knowledge at this?


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> So how hows that work? I don't see how the receiver has the two way communications to make that work without a land line.
> 
> Can someone throw there knowledge at this?


The guy didn't tell me, but I do have the MLB package with no LL.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

saleen351 said:


> The guy didn't tell me, but I do have the MLB package with no LL.


I have Extra Innings as well without a phone line.

I was referring to _"even though there is technology to locate your box without the LL". _I may have misunderstood your statement.


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## agreer (Apr 7, 2006)

Is it possible to order PPV events like Wrestlmania or prize boxing matches without a landline?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes.. you can order PPV at www.directv.com


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> DirecTV doesn't tracck viewer habits via the phone... with the exception of the "TiVo" powered units, and that is during the "TiVo" phone call..... and it is aggregated information.


I'm not so sure that's true anymore. Looks like the "what's hot" information comes from *all* DirecTV receivers. Go check the bottom of your profile at DirecTV's website: you can choose between full, anonymous, or no disclosure for your receivers. I believe it defaults to anonymous.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

walters said:


> I'm not so sure that's true anymore. Looks like the "what's hot" information comes from *all* DirecTV receivers. Go check the bottom of your profile at DirecTV's website: you can choose between full, anonymous, or no disclosure for your receivers. I believe it defaults to anonymous.


I can't see how they could track this without a phone connection. The SAT feed is definitely NOT a two way feed.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

OK, I suppose I shouldn't have assumed that I didn't need to specify "all receivers connected to a phone line." I just meant it's not limited to DTiVos anymore.


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## tco123 (Jun 27, 2006)

Don't have a choice? Yeah, right.
Here's a choice: just connect the d--- phone line.
Even if the phone line doesn't have active phone service


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Honestly.... What is the big deal if DirecTV or Neilsen or anyone knows what I watch? 

In fact, I want them to know what I watch, so the shows I enjoy don't get cancelled.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Honestly.... What is the big deal if DirecTV or Neilsen or anyone knows what I watch?
> 
> In fact, I want them to know what I watch, so the shows I enjoy don't get cancelled.


I don't think DirecTV gives their results to Neilsen. That would be awesome though (I've always wanted to be apart of that).


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

WHATS the big deal? > ph lines.
You get out here and do it . FYI Ive neen doing DTV since it hit the sky. 

Find me 2% of sat techs that are skilled/ trained in telco networking or ph line technique. YOU wont. The HSP racket is based and made up of new untrained faces and there is NO tenure left. They ran us all off over their BS.

Do you want a guy thats had 2 days to 3 weeks training working on what is considered a life line support (911). , your alarm, fire/ burgular.alarm thats got the pressure of 5 jobs to complete in one day or face fines.
I sure as heck dont. THERE IS NO QUALITY its ALL quanity and the customer is the one who suffers. Wanna see the service call rate climb to a all time high.. Well it here and now. Never before seen #'s. How about what we call no call no shows. = out the roof!

I know this forum is made up of layman . But what i read here sometimes makes me wanna say.. You people have no clue.

I used to get 199$ per install in 95-96.. now its 110-130 and im seasoned and well versed with national awards to boot. ( i make more than the average bear so to speak). The new guys make 12 or less per hr. Some are making piece rates at 40 for the first IRD(rec) and 12 for each additonal. What kinda real technician will work for that.. There is not any.
find another trade that the rates/wages have dropped by 40-50 % in a decade. Not gone up w/ cost of living. Theres not one in this country period!

all these charge backs (see Mastec) and this robbery that goes on and a UNtrained work force that has peoples lives and property at stake. Ha..

You people have NO clue.. sorry.. its a fact.

Come with me one day.. the opinion WILL change in general. no doubt in my mind. Wanna see a 19 yr old with 3 days in a film rm and a few days in a van riding as full training turned loose with a drill in your home. Order DTV from DTV themselves thats what you will get 8 of 10 times.

Again the TV watchers of this forum have a view of techs that is not correct at all. You guys dont have any idea whats going in in "our world" sorry.

How would this forum respond to actual facts and the ethical fortitude that is involved in the Tech lap everyday. I know this forum is not the place .. So i wont go there. But im telling you ..you guys are lied to in way more ways than you know. That stufff that went on in Florida (mastec) has started a national unveiling of Truth and unionization of DTV techs and a mass exodus.

I wish all i had to worry about was when the r-15 gets a update and wheres my HD locals.. Come get in the truck and learn the real truth not this mess and propaganda i see here. Most of this mess i read here tells me the general DTV public has been over come with propaganda and lies.= aweful gullable!

In summary: DONT believe the hype.. The DTV customer as well as the Technicians are victums of the New rupert DTV and steadily going down Hill in enormous fashion..= No respect & pure simple GREED.


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## psweig (Feb 4, 2006)

Thank you, that needed to be said.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What a crock.
> 
> 1) Read the fraking contract you agree to with DirecTV.... It states you must keep a phone line connected to the reciever 24/7. Just because the unit works without a constant phone line, does mean it won't work... it just means that it isn't lieing.
> 
> ...


WHAT "CONTRACT"??? I love hearing the implication I signed some sort of big formal contract with DirecTV.

I went into best buy and bought a receiver and a dish. The only thing I signed was a credit card receipt, and something that said I agreed to activate it with DirecTV within a certain amount of time.

When I mounted my Dish and hooked up my TiVo, I called to activate. I was ASKED if I had a phone line connected, and I said NO. That was it. They turned it on. I NEVER signed anything that said I would connect a phone line, and I don't have a land line so I'm not about to pay $40 a month to order PPV's.

And in the year 2006 it's STUPID to reuire phone lines. Why not offer an Internet connection as an alternative? Or two way satellite dish's if it's so damn important.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

If you ACTIVATED service with DirecTV... signed or not signed... you agreed to the Service Agreement contract with them.

The older contracts had wording that specifically stated that phone lines MUST BE ATTACHED at all times; If they weren't, then certain aspects of service will not be available: Mirroring, PPV, Sunday Ticket, ect...

The year is 2006... yes... And DirecTV is changing things....
They can't change it over night... They can't change a lot of the 40,000,000 recievers out there to use alternative methods to communicate back with the central systems for billing purposes.

I am glad that you are not into using PPV... that is your perogative.
But this thread started as an issue between installers being "dinged" for not installing phone lines.

So you don't have a phone line... good.. 
But don't be surprised if one day you can't purchase PPV, use any of the extended packages (including some of the premium networks), Mirroring, ect...

There was a time when you HAD to read and agree to the "service agreement" while you where in the store (Best Buy even had you sign electronically in the store, before you could leave)


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Well I found the latest Customer Agreement.
May 1, 2006

This is the "contract" you agree too when you activate service.

Section #1 (Our Service)
Subsection (g)



> Phone Connections. Your receiver must always be directly connected to a land-based telephone line to receive certain Service, such as sports subscriptions and your local regional sports service network, and to be authorized to order with your remote control. If it is not so connected, or if it is connected to a line other than the one you tell us, or if the line is not performing according to our requirements, we may deactivate the applicable Service. If we do, you will still be responsible for all Services purchased through the date of deactivation. Your receivers must also be connected to the same land-based telephone line in order to be eligibile to pay the additional TV Fee (see 1(f)) rather than purchase a seperate subscription for each additional TV.


Section 1(f) is about Mirroring

So... 
If you have more then one reciever, and are mirroring.
If you want your RSN
If you want extended services (such as sports and other packages)

You MUST have a land-based telephone line.

If anyone has it, I would like to see what the wording was like 10 years ago when I first signed up for DirecTV service... I know back in the DirecTV USSB days... They deactivated recievers within a day if the phone line was connected.

So yes, my commented I quoted may be slightly "off" but in generall..... Phone service (land-based) is still needed if you want full guaranteed access to all of DirecTV services....

I personally would love to get rid of my land line service, but..... With 9 active recievers on the account... I take very big advanatage of mirroring.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl,

So why is there so much hoopla about the R15 not requiring a phone line when DTV still does. Seems to me that one hand doesn't know what the other hand is "requiring".

If the only difference is that the R15 doesn't require a phone line to become active and doesn't nag you about a missing phone line...that's :icon_lame It will nag about a missing SAT signal and it will nag about a channel change in the next 5 minutes. Plus, from what you're saying, any DTV subscriber is still violating their "contract" if a phone line isn't connected.

To me, pretty stupid to say the R15 doesn't require a phone line yet DTV does. But then again, much of what DTV is doing lately is......questionable.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> This is the "contract" you agree too when you activate service.


Sorry, just another question. How do I agree to this when I receive a receiver?

I have my brand new....better be....HR10 being installed July 5th. When I ordered the unit no one read to me this agreement. So on July 5th, should I expect the sheet I sign after Ironwood insalls the HR10 to include this agreement?

Exactly where would anyone see this agreement? You, yourself had to search for it. Why would any typical customer expect to search for this?

At least with software there's the "you open it, you agree" agreement, tell me where that is in this situation? I will have an Ironwood employee open the box and install my HR10. I will then sign the Ironwood form that says the guy did the install. Where does this phone line agreement come into play? Where...when did I agree to have a phone line attached to each receiver?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I had to search for it, as I normally throw those things out...
The one I "had" was the one that was sent to me at the begining of May (and that was included as an insert to the paper Bills)

Honestly... I would think the Installers would hand them to the users, especially if requested... but I don't know for certain, and I don't have the answers for that question...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The R15 requires a phone line just as much as the next DirecTV receiver...
The big "hoopla" is that as compared to the DTivo, you don't get the daily nag message... 

The "biggest" problem, is that DirecTV simply hasn't enforced their own rules in a VERY VERY long time... am I am sure part of the reason is that they know a lot of their customers don't have land lines anymore.

But doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, if DirecTV did decide to start "enforcing" the phone line reqs... it is there. It certainly would tick off a lot of people, but.................. 

That is DirecTV's decision.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The R15 requires a phone line just as much as the next DirecTV receiver...
> The big "hoopla" is that as compared to the DTivo, you don't get the daily nag message...
> 
> The "biggest" problem, is that DirecTV simply hasn't enforced their own rules in a VERY VERY long time... am I am sure part of the reason is that they know a lot of their customers don't have land lines anymore.
> ...


Earl,

I don't think anyone here is expecting you to defend DTV's phone line requirement. I expect you to defend the R15 because you do and you honestly like the R15. But by defending policy of DTV such as the phone line business you appear to be more of a DTV slacker that defends any policy DTV may or may not have. I don't think that's what you're looking for and I don't think that's you!!!

If DTV tried to enforce the land based phone line issue, in my opinion they would loose tons-o-customers (me included) and would be hit by a REAL class action lawsuit.

I don't have lines connected to my DTivo units because it's not convenient for me. I never have. If DTV starts demanding that there will be problems. Think about this. I've bought many of my DTivo units from EBay and installed and activated them myself. At no time during that process did anyone state they must be connect to a phone line. Including a piece of paper in my statement (which I don't receive any more due to auto-payment) does no constitute my agreement to that condition.

Earl, pick your fights. Defend the R15 as you should. Don't blindly defend some weak DTV policy about this phone line business. You're better than that! :icon_bb:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Earl,
> 
> I don't think anyone here is expecting you to defend DTV's phone line requirement. I expect you to defend the R15 because you do and you honestly like the R15. But by defending policy of DTV such as the phone line business you appear to be more of a DTV slacker that defends any policy DTV may or may not have. I don't think that's what you're looking for and I don't think that's you!!!
> 
> ...


Well said, and well taken..

Didn't think i was really defending DirecTV on that last post (where I was explaining the hoopla), either way...

Honestly, I do think the phone line requirement is starting to be arcaic... as I wouldn't have a POTS line if it wasn't for my DTivos


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

hhhmmm... one guy i see is what "we techs" call a company man. (BTW no offence intended just insight and btw do You get a check?)

the other is a logical and practical speaker.

One has POWER in the forum.. the other just makes sence.

Boy im glad one of you dont live by a cliff.. cause sorry to say it seems as if the one of you would "follow" DTV right off the edge.

If i wouldnt get banned or censored and i knew it before the fact.
I would post some things here that would definately open some eyes and give a TRUE INSIDE perception of what Your #1 program provider does and is up too.

i saw the comment from the logical one who mentioned class action law suits.
hmmm.. Well my brother that comment is quite late.

There's been some.. gonna be a whole lot more. 

BTW ever heard of the RICO act? Well your *approved* DTV home service providers must not either. BUT by golly they are gonna learn (wink).

I suggest some research here. and quit worrying about the R-15 software upgrades. I have enough info that will make ANYone who has ethics in their blood drop DTV like a wet rag.

REMEMBER im the new guy here and well as i boasted i watcched this "baby" (dtv) from its birth from the inside out.

The general public is blind. BUT NOT for long!

Fraud and deceipt is the base of this thing Now. Heck i read here the lawsuits that you guys KNOW about AFTER the verdicts are rendered.

Go to the fed NLRB web site look what "the approved Home service providers" are guilty of.. It this America or Banglidesh?

You guys here Know nothing in comparison to what is out there.

FOR INSTANCE: DID you know that if a cust calls DTV within the first 60 days of service and request help.. that the CS reps are told to roll a truck from the HSP. WHY ya may wonder? when all it is is the cust. has got the TV off chan 3 and could be fixed by ph. Well its because the money paid for installation is Now charged back to the tech in the amt of 100$ when he only got paid alot lot less than that to start with.. So in essence you just paid DTV to get them a new customer ='s racketering/extortion by defintion. Its purposely done and articulated to do so. Heck i just saw a figure of 280,000$ from one of the largest indepenent install companies in the country this week for instance alone.
Alot of these Charge backs are not even real. The cust's have never called anybody period but your still charged back in the extortion.

I imagine ill get kicked out of here before the TRUTH is fully rendered prob.

I tried to post links to things of Proof and it wont let me.. BUt as i said in my previous post. This forum has NO clue and no clue at all.

Thers a couple of forums on the internet from "the inside" that can render all kinds of TRUTH.

Take this from someone who knows. You aint seen nothing Yet. Exposure is on its way. And its not just about a UNlicenced /UN trained lowvoltage & phone line anymore.

How bout some organized crime? and Public safety issues for starters. Some will say that DTv is not responsible. Well it is true that contactors are used in installations. WHY? release from liability. no other reason.. Well there some that are gonna change that. The words "knowingly and willingly" will mean a whole lot one day. heck ya just saw the Patent infringement suit surface didnt ya.? What does that say ? > DTV KNEW and Without regard STOLE the delivery methods didnt they? It says to me = "we have billions & no jury can render a judgement large enough and no LAW can out run our money."

Oh and that comment from the logical one about the r-15 and the Ph line. he he.. Boy i like you!.. its what i call articulated & willing deception to gain profits.

Come on ride with me in the truck.. ill show ya truth.! going on 12 yrs of it so far and Now i lead a pack of the Fed up and sick and tired! =Seekers of Justice.

5$ charge backs ha.. try 100$ all day every day.
Have you ever scene a company that is "approved" in this country charge a "employee" over 100$ a week to RENT a COMPANY vehicle and still called a employee?

I dont feel out of line here at all because of the title of this thread.. IT BELONGS HERE

R-i-c-o!


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

BTW.. wolf pack do you need a job (chuckle). You make way way to much sence ya know. ( just reread your posts on the ph deal) Yepp the phone line issue is a pure mess and deception in its self.
Seems to me as Wolf so eliquently made apoint of and i bring these work order in houses every single day. Where does it say anything about a mandatory rquirement of a phone line? lmao.. it doesnt.. You get a "user aggreement" in your first bill AFTER THE SERVICE HAS BEEN ACTIVATED about 5-7 days later.
Where is the legal contract? Wolf your a smart man i must say! best buy doesnt have one either lmao.. i cant help it youve made ME smile! See that word deception surface again? hmmmm.. wait one more adjective .. PURPOSED DECEPTION.

BTW.. bless your soul for being in Ironwood territory. What a joke of a outfit.

Which brings up this question. Tell me why in any other BIZ in this country when a contract holder is not and can not fufill their obligations for yrs on end. Is a total screw up and violator of law and cant do anything that the contract requires practically... why does DTV keep them?... hmmmm Lets see there JBM, Ironwood, Bruister and associates, Mastec, Apex, D-tech ect .. ALL HSP's. All a joke and screw ups. BUT DTV keeps them on no matter their faults and history. Doesnt something raise a Eye brow there.? Maybe that common word of a racket comes to surface AGAIN. JBM is a big big player and each of their affilates are nothing but the same players. No matter the name of the company. Its a pure control factor by a very very few no matter what the HSP name is on the truck.. I told ya it was research time. Try a secretary of states web site per the state and name of the company.. DO some cross referenceing. tell me what ya find.. the same names. thats what.. holding different positions and even some times said to be "advisory to" OR some reasonable facsimili there of. Heck JBM/ Bluegrass threatened Federal Procecuters in open court as a matter of fact and then threaten their own secretary while on the stand and testifying against them. The guy was hauled out of court by force as a matter of fact!

R a c k e t !

if you were a plumbing company and worked for Sears contracting and customers kept calling and complaing about leaks would Sears keep them long? I dont think so. So tell me why in the DTV game it doesnt work that way.. hmmmmm

Yes mam the plumber came and destroyed my house and i had horrific leaks.
Sears call plumbing company and says " your employee destroyed the customers house".. I dont think the Plumbing company back charges the actual worker/ EMPLOYEE do they? And then does Sears turn around after a serious history of leaks and problems from this company and say " here ... here's 1200 more houses to go do"... hmmmmmmmm 

What a cycle HUH?.. its wake up time!!!!! DTV in itself from the top to the botom is a organized racket... people of tv watching land/forum.

If 60 inutes will hurry up and listen then you'll get to see this in lights soon!
Rup can control what he dont own ya know.

Wolf.. one more time thank you for your MIND.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If you ACTIVATED service with DirecTV... signed or not signed... you agreed to the Service Agreement contract with them.
> 
> The older contracts had wording that specifically stated that phone lines MUST BE ATTACHED at all times; If they weren't, then certain aspects of service will not be available: Mirroring, PPV, Sunday Ticket, ect...
> 
> ...


Just because I activated service doesn't mean I agreed to anything more than what they told me on the phone or that I signed. For me to be held to a contract I have to have signed something or verbally agreed to something that I did not.

At no time did I agree to read any service contract or agree to anything. I called to activate service, they activated it. They didn't read me anything, or tell me that I had to agree to terms and conditions. The ONLY thing they told me was that I was agreeing to stay with DirecTV for 1 year.

By your argument they could make their terms and conditions whatever they want and I agree to it because they say I do? Sorry it doesn't work that way. If they want to hold me to a contract the MUST provide me with a copy and I need to sign something that says I read it. (They COULD do it verbally if they asked me if I read it and agreed to it and recorded the conversation I suppose.. When buying and activating the system the never even told me of the existence of this 'contract'.)

I order PPV just fine over the web and mirroring works fine. (If they want to make it so I can't order PPV's over the web, they will be the ones losing LOTS of dough on PPV purchases. No problem on my end, I'll sign up for Netflix or go to blockbuster... they are trying to sell me a product, I doubt seriously it is in their best interest to make the transaction exceedingly difficult..)

The day they tell me I have to pay $40 a month for a phone line so they can monitor my receivers is the day I get cable, who they are trying to compete against. I never lied to them and told them I had a phone line, in fact when asked I said NO, I don't have a land line, and the CSR still activated my account and said it was no problem!

I agree that they can't change out 40,000,000 receivers to use an alternate form of communications, but even their BRAND NEW products like the R15 still uses a PHONE LINE to connect... Their competitor, CABLE, does NOT require a phone line on ANYTHING. If they can't get with the times, they should drop the phone line REQUIREMENT as their system works FINE without it.


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## Spicoli (Jun 7, 2006)

I agree.... Using a phone line may be out dated. But a nice alternative would be to have the option of using a broadband connection. Any thoughts?


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Fine print is a be-a-tch, but when credit cards change their policies (usually interest rates, fees or something of that sort), they send a new copy of the terms and conditions in the bill that lays out the changes and basically indicates if the new terms are not acceptable, close the account. Or more precisely, there is language to the effect that your agreement to those terms will be implied if you continue to use the card.

I am not one that reads all the stuff inserted in my D* bill, but I would be willing to bet that if they send something that contains the terms of use and it states that by continuing to receive their service your agreement to those terms will be implied, they pretty much have covered themselves.

"But I don't get a paper bill" with auto-payment or whatever. Normally when opting for on-line only or auto-pay options, you agree to terms that include language that the "terms of use" can be updated periodically and that you agree to review those terms from time to time - or that they are available for review at any time on the web site - or something that puts the burden on you to review them and that D* doesn't have to put it in your face for you to be bound by them (my bank does the same thing with on-line banking).

I just don't agree with the hard and fast argument that "if I didn't specifically sign something, then I'm not bound by it" (or the various shades of that argument). I thought I had read somewhere (in this thread I believe) that with new activations, D* mails out their policy within a few weeks of activation. Again, I would be very surprised if there was not language in there that basically said if you continue to receive service, you agree to their terms.

Now that being said, it would be D*'s decision as to exactly what extent they go to in their enforcement. I'm guessing they aren't playing extreme hardball with everything (such as whether a phone line is connected or not), but I bet they do have the right to enforce their rules if they choose to.

I also don't believe that eliminates your right to dispute things they may do that just don't seem right, but I do think that by continuing to subscribe to their service, you have agreed to their terms.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

FYI: I have had direct billing, and online bill viewing from just about when it was first availalbe.

They mailed me that May 2006 Service agreement, unsolicited; I quoted from above.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

You know, it just struck me that many of you are complaining about having a phone line connected for a 1200 bps modem that only calls back once a month but would be perfectly happy with a broadband connection that has the potential to be active 24/7 and send back second by second information about your viewing habits. Obviously, privacy of your viewing habits is not a concern with you.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Newshawk said:


> Obviously, privacy of your viewing habits is not a concern with you.


Nope... If I could, I would allow them to take the second by second viewing habits. Then "maybe" the shows that I enjoy won't get canceled, and continuely get an overload of "reality" shows...


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Nope... If I could, I would allow them to take the second by second viewing habits. Then "maybe" the shows that I enjoy won't get canceled, and continuely get an overload of "reality" shows...


We get reality shows for the same reason we got westerns, PI shows, Cop shows and Hospital shows in the past. The so called programming talent (AKA paper weights) in charge of developing new shows can't come up with an original idea to save their lives. Not to mention the fact that production costs are much lower without an on screen talent.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> FYI: I have had direct billing, and online bill viewing from just about when it was first availalbe.
> 
> They mailed me that May 2006 Service agreement, unsolicited; I quoted from above.


Right and the mail is SO relieable.. again no guarantee people actually get it, read it, and agree to the 'new' terms.


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## urnote96 (Jun 22, 2004)

IF directv enforced the phone lines like they should, i know there would be tons of people in North Dakota that would be mad, cause north dakota now has more cell phones than land lines....


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

urnote96 said:


> IF directv enforced the phone lines like they should, i know there would be tons of people in North Dakota that would be mad, cause north dakota now has more cell phones than land lines....


Curious, why do you believe DTV should enforce the phone line clause?


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

3 points to note:

Point 1:

The land line requirement for sports subscriptions is to ensure that the in market games are shown, and the out of market games are blacked out. 

ie, someone is in Florida, should not get YES. he has to subscribe to MLB package to get the Yankees....the phone line /monthly call back is another way to ensure the box is physically where the customer says it is.

( I don't personally care about the phone line, and a LOT more people are getting rid of land lines in the last couple of years, and I can see that Directv has to deal with that reality with more and more customers)

Point 2:

Quoting D-Bamatech~
"FOR INSTANCE: DID you know that if a cust calls DTV within the first 60 days of service and request help.. that the CS reps are told to roll a truck from the HSP."

D-Bamatech then goes on to say in essence that this is to cause a charge back to the tech/installer....

Sorry D-Bamatech, but I just completed almost 2 years on the phones at one of Directv's call centers, most of it as an advanced tech support agent. So I have something to say about this.

Techs follow the same process of troubleshooting for new customers as they do for anyone else. the difference is, if Directv was in charge of the installation (sometimes a third party is setting the customer up for Directv service and they get referred to that company after troubleshooting), we were to set up a service call and it would be at no charge to the customer. Anyone after that either pays the 70 dollars, or, Directv's preference, is signed up for the protection plan and offered 30 dollars first, and it is even waived if the customer balks, and has generally been a good paying customer. 

The time frame is 90 days, not 60 days. 

No customer likes to hear that they have to wait for a tech to come out to get service back on, and it is A HELL OF A LOT MORE WORK to go into the system to set up a service call (its a whole different program untill they get the new one for all the reps) and, you have to go and give them service credits if they ask for them for the amount of days they are down...per line item! Major PAIN to do, and it takes up your time, no matter how efficient you are on the computer. ITS A LOT QUICKER, CHEAPER, AND MAKES NEW CUSTOMERS HAPPY TO FIX IT ON THE INITIAL CALL TO DIRECTV! Sorry, thought adults everywhere would understand that.

Point 3:

I saw no evidence that Directv wants its tech support staff to just set up service calls, in fact, it was evidence to the CONTRARY that Directv wants a tech to go back out during the warranty period. A truck roll costs Directv money. Phantom charge backs? Must be the HSP's, not Directv. 

And, I cursed under my breath everytime a customer who did not have a service call in 2 years, but had been installed by Directv needed a service call, and when I pulled up the info, I was not to use that particular info anymore. I had to rebuild all their data from scratch into the service call program....took 3 times as long!

Now, WHY, do you say, did I have to re-enter EVERYTHING into the service call system???

I found out a lot of times either the HSP or the local office attached to the original set up was no longer an authorized installer for Directv...hence the need to rebuild the data, and the system would find the right info. This happens when too many complaints are logged, and call center techs (if they are doing their jobs) put in a special "work order" using the same system just to log said complaints. So Directv DOES drop installers/offices who mess up, when too many reports come in. 

As a matter of fact, your posts are a bit over the top. Since I know what it takes as a Directv tech support agent to get a customer through troubleshooting and then have to set up a service call on top of it, the rest of what you say is very circumspect to me.

Do I agree with everything Directv does? No.

Has Directv been one of the nicest companies to its customers in my opinion, as a call center agent for several companies for the last 10 years? You betcha.

I stand by what I say


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

AnonomissX said:


> 3 points to note:
> 
> Point 1:
> 
> ...


The problem with that is, with today's VOIP phone services (Vonage, etc), having a Florida phone number does not mean you actually live in Florida. So, if te customer has VOIP, there is no way to tell where the equipment is actually located at.


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## Spicoli (Jun 7, 2006)

I love hearing both sides of the story. The truth usually lies somewhere in between.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Spicoli said:


> I love hearing both sides of the story. The truth usually lies somewhere in between.


VERY true!!


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

adam1115 said:


> Right and the mail is SO relieable.. again no guarantee people actually get it, read it, and agree to the 'new' terms.


adam1115,

Not to pick on you at all, but to address this type of comment.

What steps is D* supposed to take then? Are they to send a representative to the houses of every customer, make sure they catch them at home, then sit down and read them their policies and have them sign an agreement to abide by them? Even assuming the mail is reliable and everyone gets a copy of the policies in their hands, how many of those people will actually read them? Not many, I suspect.

If D* mails the policy to customers (an accepted form of notification for MANY different industries) and also posts them on their web site, with reference to them on screens that people go through to add service, activate receivers, etc., what more should they be required to do?

The only example I can come up with, without thinking too hard about it, of almost a "forced" recitiation of and acknowledged understanding of certain "terms of agreement" if you want to call it that, is when law enforcement is required to read you your rights when you are arrested.

General commercial interests (banks, credit card companies, companies doing business in more important realms than providing entertainment) regularly use the US mail and posting of the terms of use on their web sites to inform their clients of those terms. Use or further use of their services is considered implied agreement with those terms. And in instances of on-line activities, it is common to have to check a box acknowledging you have read and agree to those terms (even if you don't bother to read them). I see no reason why DirecTv should be held to any higher standard than that.


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

(repsonse to :CSR post)

Well may be thats what "yall think". DTv is a pure mess and as was said here the 'left hand has no freeking clue what the other is doing".

Also im in the trenches not on a phone. I see this paper and dont hear it from company rep. The "water cooler" is not the source of truth ya know.

Also FYI (if i would designate myself fully) my SBCA and prior number (before the requirement of SBCA some yrs ago) has NOT 1 single blemish. NO service calls, NO NCNS's (no call no shows).. So let me just say some of that propaganda OR as what has been told is at the "wrong tree" (ME). I am NOT (proudly) part of "them" and this new aged hurry up offence quanity over quality underpaid wanna be tech bunch your DTV company has configerated by their own hands. This whole installation network and the DTV policy is a freekin articulated fraudulant bunch of Junk based on greed .

So if a old lady knocks the TV off input channel and its in the first 60 days then some 10$ 3 week trained wanna be gets his almighty HSP to dispatch him there. Does the original tech deserve a100$ charge back for something MOST get paid ALOT to do to start with? After ALL it IS CUSTOMER CAUSED. Also its funny as H*** that when the Charge back notes come back it says in this case > "lack of customer education". Ok so now we technicians are responsible for kids and the 80 yr old Grandma too? Excuse ME?!! Sorry but those chairs full of customer telephone numbers and IRD acc. card #'s. doesnt tell the TRUTH. 

Robbery is occurring from coast to coast. And sorry Also you need to do some research also. Cause my friend its NOT the HSP or the IC(install company) that 100$ charge back comes from the hands of DTV. It lands in our lap as a payroll deduction. And if your fool enough to work near or for those Mastec crooks then you also buy your OWN small part AND rent the "pretty white van" to boot!

Its articulated EXtortion .. no 2 ways about it. Purposely done from Top to Bottom..

ALSO**** to this forum and the moderators (especialy E) i want to send a apology to my above demeanor. I used a post to express truth and hardship based frustration
not for myself but for every REAl tech's left in this industry. We are a dieing breed and are being forced out and /or to fight back. I for one have chosen to fight with a Vengence. Our fighters from coast to coast are in great numbers and my views are no way shape or form limited to "my eyes". Dtv and their "approved' racketers" have crossed a line and now the evidence is now surfacing. Go read where the UNION has stepped in to save and expose the TRUTH. There IS a nation wide campaign to stop these crooks and numerous Union are involved. IBEW, CWA and the likes. This story (thread) of the mastec techs. Well go search the IBEW national web site.. THAT OFFICE IS NOW IBEW represented!. This thing is going hit the "lights" like a tidal wave before its over.= EXPOSURE OF SIMPLE TRUTH. As a matter of fact i may be one of those just carry the torch.. ya think?

Again in my previous post do i mean to deteriorate anyones character or to blaspheme anyone. E now (i hope knows this). I guess call it "SHOCK AND AWE" and those comments were not meant to be personal in any way shape or formm.

Also mr or Mrs CSR. your post just adds to the reflection of what is more of "what they say".

I guess when these dealers get that piece of paper with Charge back on them
in the amout almost 300,000$ at one time. When i hold that paper IN my Hand i guess thats a dream too?

Imagine this. > orig paid 40-70$

Cx unplugs ph line cause "little Jimmy" dont neede PPV = -5$
Cx then on the 55 th day knocks tv after ch3 = -100$
the home is a 4 rec home. Cx doesnt want to pay for wall fish or the other rip off of 75$ wireless phone jack so 2 more rec arent on a ph period. (remember The CSR and 'the seller" says FREE installation.

Ok lets total now: -15 = -100$= -115
orig pay ? 40-70
total= -75 to-45.

Now this is just a proven written senerio. I have scene the numbers show alot worse.

Where is that not labeled a racket in any American biz society ?

Couple that with some guy buying the parts and Renting a company van requirement to bring forth Profits/new customers to those Already rich and deviant!

hmmm. lastly but Not least.. WHO IS THE *ONLY* FACE THAT ANY CUSTOMER EVER SEES.? WHO SWEATS AND MAKES THIS *WHOLe* CIRCLE SPIN?.
We the technicians that who.. The rest of the puzzle is nothing but a bunch of voices and 1-800 #'s. 
Whats left of them anyway.. TO me there is a Technician And then there is a Installer. Well DTV has a untrained bunch of kids called installers now. Wanna see the average tenure of any HSP office? lmao. Single digit ratios of more than 6 months.! Who did this to the public safety and customer satisfaction? DTV AND THEIR APPROVED HOME SERVICE PROVIDERS.


PS.. i just re-read that CSR post > WHAT? Go do some research and tell me HOW LONG brusiter and asociates has had this HSP contract. RAN off? ha not hardly. They have the WORST number in this country (besides Ne- D-tech) and they still have the contract. Are you nuts or blind? Go run the Secretary of states web sites per state and HSP and youll see why this is. Go look for a prominant name of John Mattingly (see JBM). Read further in to the federal govt web site involving the NLRB and his owned bluegrass Sat. (HSP). Go run the D-tech (HSP) per state Secretary of states office. Go run the affiliation to 'the rest". Ha any if ya dig real real far. In the Ohio area you will find proof of somethings that make a episode of the Soprano's like like a disney cartoon.
hmmmmm Now run the history and HOW LONG these people have had the DTV contracts. Run their Nc/NS rates, Run their, serv call rates. Their employee turn over rates.

Some may be Blind and live inside "the white picket fence" of "them". But the one typing this has been on 'this dig" for over 15 months now.

I cant print all what is unsurfaced nor do i want to. BUT theres more dirt here than what on the ground in Missisippi.

CSR if thats all you can dream.. sorry your some of the lost and gullable also who listened to much to "them". No personal offence intended and i think what i have as proof is alot 'lot more than "what they say".

I printed enough here for those curious to find. If ya dont feel like the dig.. just wait.. in due time you want have to dig.. it WILL be on the forefront and with the help of Unions and powerful others .. this is one time DTV isnt gonna scream "we didnt know" or we're not liable.

Oh on the Union front Btw why is that there ARE paid union busters and rampant intimidation and illegal firings and cases filed over it. Who is paying these guys and lawyers to thwart our efforts? lmao.=. the trail continues and funny "they" dig a whole and leave a train of bread crumbs all along the way.

These feelings and setiments can be found ALL across the internet and growing. Heck how ya think i found this thread to start with?

Go read the IBEW web site and see whats the TOP topic. > the same result of why some blessed man wrote this thread to start with. 

They push WE fight!


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

i just read some more of that mess. > It cost them Money to roll a truck? what?
where's your cacualator? 100$ CB.. look like to me they made money for our sweat and labor to me. And got a cust on a "one yr ticket" to boot.
Go look at this Mastec video and the picture of that guys pay check and that is not including the rest of the racket imposed 3rd world country BS? Maybe come to ALA and pick up this 5 lbs of paper that sits here and then maybe you'll RE-post.

BTW how long ago did you sit in that chair of theirs. Why is it that at every activation now practically i have to talk to some new face 8 of 10 times there also. hows the CSR turn over rate now btw? > (lmao?)


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> adam1115,
> 
> Not to pick on you at all, but to address this type of comment.
> 
> ...


When you buy your equipment (or have it installed) they should give you the service agreement. Your receipt that you sign should say "I agree that I have read and agree to the service agreement. I also understand that terms and conditions may change at any time without notice."

They should also completely drop the phone line requirment in my opinion. It should be optional for 'advanced features" such as PPV and premium sports packages.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Even though I have a land line and have phone lines connected to my one D10 and 6 TiVos (3 HD), I totally agree that there should be some other way to deal with things than a phone line. Short of low-jacks in the receivers I think a land line is the best (though certainly not infallible (sp?)) way of doing things right now, until they can perfect two-way communication from the receivers and get all of them swapped out.

As a matter of fact, though, I did have a new HR10-250 installed just yesterday. I signed a number of papers provided to me by the installer (originals of which he kept) and pretty much knowing what to expect, I didn't bother to read all of it. I just now looked at those papers and it outlines the terms of service, what is included/expected in the installation process - including the receiver being connected to a land-based phone line, language about the lease and program commitment period, and quoting from the Lease Addendum exacly how it is, including the bolding and caps, "*THIS EQUIPMENT LEASE ADDENDUM CONTAINS THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR THE LEASE BY DIRECTV OF THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT TO YOU, BUT MUST BE READ TOGETHER WITH THE DIRECTV CUSTOMER AGREEMENT (A COPY OF WHICH IS PROVIDED TO YOU WITH YOUR FIRST BILL AND IS AVAILABLE AT WWW.DIRECTV.COM) FOR ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS REGARDING THE PROVISION OF SERVICES AND YOUR RIGHT TO USE THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT.*"

Now if I understand correctly, you purchased your receiver from Best Buy and installed it yourself. I don't know the time frame of when you purchased, but with Best Buy being a sales agent of DirecTv for their equipment, I imagine that they would be required to provide you with the information D* will be holding you to. If they didn't, seems to me the problem lies with BB. I don't know if at that point you were a new customer (and if so, a Customer Agreement should have been provided with your first bill) or if you were already a customer just adding equipment (I also don't know if you are already a customer just activating new equipment if a Customer Agreement is mailed in your next bill after activation). From a court of law standpoint, I don't know who would be liable for you not knowing - D*, BB or you.

Again, I do agree it would be nice if a phone line was not required - I could go back to metered service with my phone company and not have to have unlimited service because my TiVo's chew up all my time allotment!


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

adam1115 said:


> When you buy your equipment (or have it installed) they should give you the service agreement. Your receipt that you sign should say "I agree that I have read and agree to the service agreement. I also understand that terms and conditions may change at any time without notice."
> 
> They should also completely drop the phone line requirment in my opinion. It should be optional for 'advanced features" such as PPV and premium sports packages.


My Circuit City receipt says no such thing... It says I must activate the equipment with DirecTV within 30 days, not much else.

No service agreement provided.

You know the more I think about this the more it annoys me.

If TRULY DirecTV wanted EVERY receiver to have a phone line connected they could A) Put a GIANT RED STICKER on every receiver box that says "THIS PRODUCT REQUIRES LAND LINE PHONE SERVICE TO WORK CORRECTLY." B) they could deactivate ANY receiver that currently does not have a line connected.

But they want their cake and want to eat it too. Their FINE taking money from people that wouldn't subscribe if they had to get a land line, yet they want to be able to selectivly enforce the rule when it suits them.

I wonder if they did push the issue, could us VoIP people connect our voip line to their system and make it their problem if it doesn't work? (We're in compliance, phone line is connected...) Most phone lines are digital these days so its likely that some Voip providers work fine (Cbeyond, Comcast, etc.) and others not so much, (Vonage, Packet8..)


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

adam1115 said:


> My Circuit City receipt says no such thing... It says I must activate the equipment with DirecTV within 30 days, not much else.
> 
> No service agreement provided.


Then it sounds like CC screwed up, not D*. You didn't mention if you were a new customer or whether you actually received the agreement in your bill after this purchase. When I got my SDDVR40 back in February, D* actually mailed me a copy of their Customer Agreement separate from my bill - there was a note saying something along the line of "Thank you for activating yor service..." and a copy of their Customer Agreement. They had shipped the unit and scheduled an installation, but I cancelled the install because all I had to do was plug it in. No installer, nothing to sign. Just the follow up mail with the terms enclosed. Just seems they go out of their way to make sure they get it in front of you.

Bottom line, I just can't buy into the "they never told me" arguments I see on this forum. I can understand the "I never signed anything" aspect (for reasons just like your experience and mine from February), but I don't think D* necessarily needs a signature if their terms are presented and a person continues to use their service.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Here is the deal.

Regardless if you signed something or not... you are under the "Service Agreement". If you don't like it... Call DirecTV and cancel the service.

If you didn't get the Agreement... Call DirecTV and have them send it to you.


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

Kheldar said:


> The problem with that is, with today's VOIP phone services (Vonage, etc), having a Florida phone number does not mean you actually live in Florida. So, if te customer has VOIP, there is no way to tell where the equipment is actually located at.


exACtly!


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## AnonomissX (Jun 29, 2006)

D-Bamatech said:


> (repsonse to :CSR post)
> 
> Well may be thats what "yall think". DTv is a pure mess and as was said here the 'left hand has no freeking clue what the other is doing".
> 
> ...


reading for comprehension....gave it my side of the coin, as one of the techs who "sits in a chair".....like the job I USED to do (again, reading for comprehension) was a walk in the park...

I stated that it is a LOT MORE difficult to have to set up a service call, AFTER doing the SAME troubleshooting as if a customer was over 90 days old...and then it jacks up the call time.

:nono2:

All the rest is infighting on the HSP side, sorry.


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

Not only HSP, sorry.

ITS DTV THEMSELVES! 

The history of the installation side has changed dramatically in the last 2 years. DTV has successfully created (as web cast dictates) a 85% "in house" network. Its called HSP and MSP. They also have closed and ran off and starved out many dealerships and retailers. The trickle efect has closed and "put under" numerous installation companies ALSO(very few left at all). They have only 1 distibuter now in the network. Perfect -10 and DSI merged under DTV enforcement and created the MSP drop shipping & distributing and install network . During all off the destroy mission By DTV to get "hand palming control" they have greatly reduced wages to all parts of their now monoplized and controlled work force. In essence now if you want to install DTV for a living then you have been forced to these "hand chosen" and ultimantly forced to play by their tyranny based rule. Now all the control of installs are controlled nationwide by VERY few people. The "few" are all connected especially in the eastern/southern united states. Though as i implicated these same FEW have control under different names in other parts of the country. Tyranny comes with monoploy and control AND ABUSE is now favorable to things that make "wallmart" look like a church mission. One IBEW representative reffered to it as 3rd world country abuse. I simply and whole hardily agree. Its pittful and appalling to witness the abuse and diregard for american workers in general.

Remember ive been putting these micky mouse things up since DTV inception .. Ive scene it all from the install side.. and what goes on now is a pure racket and a joke.. sorry.

Go read the IBEW website. The CWA web site.. the NLRB fed/govt wesite. ect ect ect.. I think there evidence that my sentiments are felt ALL across this country.

Who designated and approved and *ARTICULATED these people to do their work. THey closed in "wall mart fashion" everyone not asscociated with these people... who passes the chargebacks out with their own hand? 

I think that would be the nations #1 digital programming provider wouldnt it?

"top to the bottom" = racket.









"from top to bottom"
For instance:
Dtv *IS* the administer of the 100$ charge back. It comes from them and is passed to EVERY retailer/dealer they have in this country. Its NOT from a installation company . 

"top to the bottom"... remember?


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

In the last four months alone, I have seen two major paycuts. The first amounted to more than $300 A WEEK average. As of July 1st, I have now gotten another paycut because of this phone line issue. Instead of the $5 per receiver chargeback, our company just decided to go ahead and cut everyone's pay on all installs by $5 for 1st box, $5 for each additional box, and $10 on upgrades. This pay cut will probably hit me in the $400 to $500 dollar A WEEK range.

This next section is for all of you "just run the damn phone line" idiots. And I mean that with all of the respect that I can give you.

Ever since this whole phone line issue came up, I have ran phone lines to EVERYTHING, including the customers that only have cell phone service and told me that they would never get a land based line again. Dtv is no longer asking if the receivers are connected to a phone line when you call to activate a receiver. Used to be that was when you let them know if the customer didn't have land based phone service. Now, they automatically set it up for the receiver to make its phone call, regardless if the customer has land based phone service or not. So basically I was still get penalized, even though I ran the lines. Now I have wasted a ton of money on boxes of phone line, phone jacks, labor, etc. Would you "just run the damn phone line" guys be willing to reimberse me for any of the useless costs that you have caused me? I didn't think so.

Although I don't agree with everything Bamatech is saying (imagine that, an AU fan not agreeing with a bama fan, lol), he does make many excellent points.

I think most of you are looking at him as just being a bitter employee (yes I have seen it posted in this thread about the mastec guys are just bitter, so I'm sure you are thinking the same about him), but I wonder how many of you would take a pay cut of about $700 to $800 a week in a four month period and not be bitter about it? Especially if you are someone that takes pride in your work, as I do.


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## iceman2a (Dec 30, 2005)

D-BAMATECH 

You are 100 percent correct! It's not only D*, but most of "corporate america"!


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

Well well, some more techs and people "WHO KNOW" have surfaced. ( i figured a fe might be here)

Roll tide ! tiger man.. MUCH RESPECT.. no kidding.( i dont hate the tiger btw until that (1) game , not the closed minded fan or person )

The state of "our trade" is in misery huh? Who suffers ? EVERY single DTV customer and tech.. thats who!

I had a cust. call me yesterday and Bruister no called no showed him and now the reschedule date is all the way till the 14 of July. Does that look like and give evidence of a understaffed work force. I wonder why its so understaffed.

They fired ALL the union supporters , ran off the skilled professionals, and now have a bunch of new trained faces who have no clue.

I can go get all the techs you want to come to this forum from coast to coast btw to add to and to second these comments from numerous companies.= Hundreds and hundreds.

This forum, as i said in my 1st post has no clue. A CSR even displayed they dont even know and are also led to believe half truths or no truth at all.

After all its "what they say". Right?

Tiger who are ya working for ? Has the Union been to Help you guys yet?

If not PM and ill get them there. PM me if you want any help or would like to discuss how to help stop this tyranny.

Al Pacino said it best: " Im out of order, your out of order, this whole **** is out of order!"

I just figured it was time to get "the tv watchers" to feel and see what their provider and their "hand chosen ones" have contrued and articulated at the techs expense and what a racket it was From Inside the trenches and from the 'boots that walk".


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

adam1115 said:


> I wonder if they did push the issue, could us VoIP people connect our voip line to their system and make it their problem if it doesn't work? (We're in compliance, phone line is connected...)


They specify a "landline" which is another name for "POTS" (Plain Old Telephone Service). This distinguishes it from a VOIP or wireless phone which are packet switched digital. While VOIP may be able to get the call through, it doesn't technically meet the letter of the requirement; especially since you can subscribe to a foreign exhange number from almost anywhere.


> Most phone lines are digital these days so its likely that some Voip providers work fine (Cbeyond, Comcast, etc.) and others not so much, (Vonage, Packet8..)


No residential "land line" is digital at the point where it comes into the "household". Certainly they aren't necessarily continuous metallic connections all the way back to the CO anymore, but they still provide you with a 50VDC current loop and 110VAC ringing. The key element of the land line versus VOIP is that you are assured of getting the same ANI identification every time. Some of the more primative VOIP systems give various ANI numbers when you call an 800 number. This is a quicker way to get your receiver disabled than not having it connected at all.

E* is tinkering with technologies to tie all of the receivers together (via house wiring networking) so that only one receiver needs to "phone home", but until this is broadly implemented and everyone replaces their older receivers, the land line remains the most reliable way to insure that you're still within your DMA.

The real answer lies with GPS technology built into the antenna and transmitted to the receivers. Each receiver would be given coordinates and it would not perform when connected to a dish located somewhere else (an antenna located more than a few feet away). This should be very effective in identifying the programming that a particular residence is allowed by the FCC. It will also safeguard the distributor from claims of "movers" receiving content that they shouldn't.


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## The intimidator (Apr 14, 2006)

Phone lines are basically a pay per view conspiricy!! Direct or Dish does not care if the teenager is ordering porn while the parents are at work. They still get there money. I will be glad when some one figures out a way to transmit to and from on sat dishes. Just like sat internet. I work for Dish. Many customers do not even want pay per view access..


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Last I heard you were able to set locks or rating limits on the receivers. Is this no longer true? If the parents are worried about teeneagers ordering porn while they're at work, shouldn't they be programming the receivers not to allow that? And if they aren't, then yes, they're responsible for paying for it.


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## D-Bamatech (Jun 28, 2006)

UNtill Dtv and/or dish make a maditory disclosure *AT THE POINT OF SALE*, this whole ph line BS from the view of a tech and or the *smart general joe consumer will be the same. ITS a purposely done deceptive process=simple.

I want to know how many customers here when ordering were disclosed *AT POINT OF SALE* a ph line requirement to obtain service under a customer agreement? huh?

None of them know until WE techs get there. Then a week or so *AFTER* they get some miniture written jargon WITH THE BILL.

Think about that process.? If thats not labeled as construed deception i dont know what is?!?

If the dislosure is Not done at point of sale or at appointment confirmation then WHY is it the techs job to inform them of such when we get there. Then the cust has been fed FULL of this "free STANDARD installation noise". Then if the phone line requires a wall fish or a wireless jack they are HIT for a charge that is UNknown to them until we the tech gets there. Then if its a cell ph hm or the phone line is impossible and the cust doesnt want to pay the outlandish prices(wireless/wall fisch ect).... Then guess what who pays in the end > WE THE TECHNICIANS <.

So in essence the summarry concurrs that the working class(techs) suffers and is robbed by the hands of the deceptor. 

There's all kinds of small print on "Free standard installation" and lists for charges "not to excede" a certain price. How bout were ANY of you customers here on this site. Where you guys read the inclusions and exclusions of what exactly Standard installation includeds AT THE POINT OF SALE?

YOU TELL ME WHAT THE DEFINITION OF THE Above IS ?

I dont see the word Ethical attached anywhere sorry.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

harsh said:


> They specify a "landline" which is another name for "POTS" (Plain Old Telephone Service). This distinguishes it from a VOIP or wireless phone which are packet switched digital. While VOIP may be able to get the call through, it doesn't technically meet the letter of the requirement; especially since you can subscribe to a foreign exhange number from almost anywhere.No residential "land line" is digital at the point where it comes into the "household". Certainly they aren't necessarily continuous metallic connections all the way back to the CO anymore, but they still provide you with a 50VDC current loop and 110VAC ringing. The key element of the land line versus VOIP is that you are assured of getting the same ANI identification every time. Some of the more primative VOIP systems give various ANI numbers when you call an 800 number. This is a quicker way to get your receiver disabled than not having it connected at all.


My point is that I'm not just referring to Vonage or Packet8 when I'm talking "voip". Many telcos are offering fiber solutions that are NOT copper land line services. All of Bell Souths inter-switch communication are going to VoIP. Most cable companies offer a digital phone service using VOIP.

Traditional POTS lines are going away, they can't require everyone buy a second copper phone line when even the telcos are moving to voip...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

JLucPicard said:


> Last I heard you were able to set locks or rating limits on the receivers. Is this no longer true? If the parents are worried about teeneagers ordering porn while they're at work, shouldn't they be programming the receivers not to allow that? And if they aren't, then yes, they're responsible for paying for it.


You can still do it... and in fact the latest update to the R15 added an additional item, to completely remove the channels (and the show descriptions) from the guide as well


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Now if we could only do that for shows containing violence, which I find much more offensive than sex.

Carl


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I would agree... but from a "description" point of view, the description on the "adult" channels are a lot more "descriptive" then some of those with Violence.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

adam1115 said:


> Traditional POTS lines are going away, they can't require everyone buy a second copper phone line when even the telcos are moving to voip...


Even when making the transition to VOIP, most telcos are still using the installed plant of "last mile" copper to carry the data. Most conventional wireline telcos still provide conventional FCC Part 68 compliant service to a box outside the home. It has been a mainstay in their determination what is telco responsibility and what is CPE (customer provided equipment).

Regardless of whether you're one of the 7.7 million who have "cut the cord" or the others who are using VOIP, the fact remains that the distributors need some way of satisfying the FCC requirement of serving up content to only those within the DMA. This means catching "movers" by hook or by crook (or at lease making a gallant effort). Dish Network is currently on the carpet for not paying enough attention.

What alternative to a landline connection do you propose Dish Network and DirecTV do to satisfy the intra-DMA requirement?

I suggest the following assumptions:

1. the FCC requirement isn't going away any time soon.
2. the technology needs to be affordable
3. the solution must be flexible enough to operate with whatever communications technology is in place with each and every subscriber for the next few years.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

The only solution they could provide is broadband, but I've heard that DirecTV was working on two-way dishes, which would be awesome.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

jonaswan2 said:


> The only solution they could provide is broadband, but I've heard that DirecTV was working on two-way dishes, which would be awesome.


You mean something other than what's now referred to as Hughes'Net? The old DirecWay?


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

harsh said:


> Even when making the transition to VOIP, most telcos are still using the installed plant of "last mile" copper to carry the data. Most conventional wireline telcos still provide conventional FCC Part 68 compliant service to a box outside the home. It has been a mainstay in their determination what is telco responsibility and what is CPE (customer provided equipment).
> 
> Regardless of whether you're one of the 7.7 million who have "cut the cord" or the others who are using VOIP, the fact remains that the distributors need some way of satisfying the FCC requirement of serving up content to only those within the DMA. This means catching "movers" by hook or by crook (or at lease making a gallant effort). Dish Network is currently on the carpet for not paying enough attention.
> 
> ...


The fact is that the TELCO isn't the only game in town like they used to be. DBS companies benfited fromt he fact that the government helped them compete with cable to spur competition. The same is happening in telecom. VOIP, Cable, and Wireless (cell) technologies WILL be competeing with Bell. Verizon and other are delivering fiber to the home, and I've been to small areas with TELCO co-ops that are also doing strictly fiber to the home.

1) What "intra-dma" requirements need satisfied?? The reason for the phone line requirement as near as I can tell is to prevent account stacking.

2) Broadband can be used to determine if all receivers are in the same location, and can transmit PPV information. This seems to be the most logical choice. Two-way dish seems like a good future idea... (Remember that Cable can tout 2-way communications with no phone line...)

3) Spend the extra effort to make their receivers work with Voip lines. MANY other devices (modems) work fine at speeds in the 9600-19200 baud ranges, they could tweak and test their receivers to work on voip lines.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

FYI-

My parents just signed up for DirecTV. They are a typical non-technical customer. The installler never mentioned anything about phone lines, didn't run any phone lines, etc. When activating the CSR asked if she had phone lines connected and she said "I think there is a phone jack at one of the receivers but not the others."

They didn't tell her she needed to have the installer run phone lines to the other receivers, or that she needed to do anything else... 

She didn't receive any service agreement, the only agreement on the phone was to the comittment. She DID sign the work ticket (or whatever it was), but she wasn't sure what it said.

I told her DirecTV requires a phone line to every receiver and asked if she knew that (just curious if the typical customer is left with this information) and she said "NO, but they installed it, if they want a phone line connected they better come back and run one.." (Which seems obvious to me when DirecTV agreed to a FREE INSTALLATION...)


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

adam1115 said:


> 1) What "intra-dma" requirements need satisfied?? The reason for the phone line requirement as near as I can tell is to prevent account stacking.


The requirement that prevents "movers" from getting the programming that they "moved" for; that you be provided programming appropriate to the Nielsen DMA that you reside in (and blacked out as appropriate).


> 2) Broadband can be used to determine if all receivers are in the same location, and can transmit PPV information. This seems to be the most logical choice. Two-way dish seems like a good future idea... (Remember that Cable can tout 2-way communications with no phone line...)


This is largely dependent on what ANI information your VOIP carrier serves up. As you can obtain and keep a foreign exchange number regardless of where you live may give the appearance that you aren't moving, but it belies where you actually live. Using your IP number isn't very reliable as a locating device until everyone gets their own IPv6 number as opposed to the current dynamic IP scheme. Would you want your satellite provider to accept PPV requests from a receiver identifying itself as yours but coming from different phone numbers?


> 3) Spend the extra effort to make their receivers work with Voip lines. MANY other devices (modems) work fine at speeds in the 9600-19200 baud ranges, they could tweak and test their receivers to work on voip lines.


Until all VOIP services provide correct ANI, it won't work. In order for this to work, the number must assure the distributor that the physical location of the "landline" hasn't changed. Telcos and maybe cable companies might be able to do this, but many of the "national" VOIP services advertise that you can "subscribe" to whatever exchange you want. This actually facilitates the "movers".


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

harsh said:


> The requirement that prevents "movers" from getting the programming that they "moved" for; that you be provided programming appropriate to the Nielsen DMA that you reside in (and blacked out as appropriate).This is largely dependent on what ANI information your VOIP carrier serves up. As you can obtain and keep a foreign exchange number regardless of where you live may give the appearance that you aren't moving, but it belies where you actually live. Using your IP number isn't very reliable as a locating device until everyone gets their own IPv6 number as opposed to the current dynamic IP scheme. Would you want your satellite provider to accept PPV requests from a receiver identifying itself as yours but coming from different phone numbers?Until all VOIP services provide correct ANI, it won't work. In order for this to work, the number must assure the distributor that the physical location of the "landline" hasn't changed. Telcos and maybe cable companies might be able to do this, but many of the "national" VOIP services advertise that you can "subscribe" to whatever exchange you want. This actually facilitates the "movers".


There is no "REQUIREMENT" by anyone for satellite companies to use a phone line to confirm your physical location for your local channel market...


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

adam1115 said:


> There is no "REQUIREMENT" by anyone for satellite companies to use a phone line to confirm your physical location for your local channel market...


How they confirm isn't specified, but it is required that they confirm that you are entitled.


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## wuffie (Jan 1, 2008)

i haven't posted before, sorry if the look is't correct.

i have read alot of these threads.

i am a tech for one of those big new hsp's.

i don't agree with alot of the things the hsp does or dtv for that matter.

here are some of my thoughts
phone lines: personally i think dtv wants them hooked up for PPV impulse buys, i am sure it creates a tremendous amount of revenue. this is understandable. personally i don't think we should be responsible for running phone lines to every receiver we install, it is very time consuming, the amount of jobs we are expected to do in a day, its almost impossible.(mabye to the main & possibly the m-b/r). but, not if they have no land service (cell only). i am sure with the technology available dtv could incorporate wireless phone jacks into the receivers.

i agree whole heartedly with the scenerio of the elderly woman getting it off of chan 3 etc... with all the new technology some of the people no matter how much time we take explaining, they forget half of what you say as soon as you walk out the door. i will tell you that when it was o.k. for my wife to ride along with me, i was able to really do a thourough job installing while she was talking to the customer & hooking up the receivers inside. (the customers loved the personal attention along with a much more thourough explaination from her & the fact the customers (mostly women) felt more comfortable with the whole experience. i'm sure the majority of the techs out there would love to have someone riding with them everyday. paperwork, looking at the map & occasionally someone above the floor or on the other side of the wall if you know what i mean.

i firmly believe if every person in the industry new & old had to ride with a tech for 1 month it would help out the industry tremendously on all levels. respect for what we do, most of all seeing first hand the range of people and scenerios we encounter daily (rain,snow,blistering heat etc...) ( the wide variety of wiring configurations & people (with all levels of education & all levels of living conditions we encounter). if you can even picture it in your mind, some of the houses i walk into i would not let my dog live in. no offense, but sitting at a desk talking to people on the phone all day is a walk in the park compared to what we do! really, no offense, and i mean everybody, ceo's,computer people,csr's,tech support, i mean everybody that has not already been in the field!

i really like my job, but i have to agree, the regulation is killing the industry. these big hsp's are losing the good techs & hiring drones that do not care about the job they do. (how can they, they can not make any money anymore, we all know the old saying {money talks & bulls*** walks} i have done it both ways & i like the old way better. all dtv needs to do for their image is create guidelines for what type of vehicle we work out of, make health insurance available to us, create a QC team or teams to check jobs at random in each state, and pay us the money we deserve. there are plenty of people to do it, they just need to find them. guidelines as follows- fail x# of QC'S and your out. it really is that simple. all of the money is making a few people rich, the rest of us just get a bad attitude.

i could go on for days, i just need to stop, sorry if i got off track, this is a passionate subject for me.

QUOTE=D-Bamatech;605953](repsonse to :CSR post)

Well may be thats what "yall think". DTv is a pure mess and as was said here the 'left hand has no freeking clue what the other is doing".

Also im in the trenches not on a phone. I see this paper and dont hear it from company rep. The "water cooler" is not the source of truth ya know.

Also FYI (if i would designate myself fully) my SBCA and prior number (before the requirement of SBCA some yrs ago) has NOT 1 single blemish. NO service calls, NO NCNS's (no call no shows).. So let me just say some of that propaganda OR as what has been told is at the "wrong tree" (ME). I am NOT (proudly) part of "them" and this new aged hurry up offence quanity over quality underpaid wanna be tech bunch your DTV company has configerated by their own hands. This whole installation network and the DTV policy is a freekin articulated fraudulant bunch of Junk based on greed .

So if a old lady knocks the TV off input channel and its in the first 60 days then some 10$ 3 week trained wanna be gets his almighty HSP to dispatch him there. Does the original tech deserve a100$ charge back for something MOST get paid ALOT to do to start with? After ALL it IS CUSTOMER CAUSED. Also its funny as H*** that when the Charge back notes come back it says in this case > "lack of customer education". Ok so now we technicians are responsible for kids and the 80 yr old Grandma too? Excuse ME?!! Sorry but those chairs full of customer telephone numbers and IRD acc. card #'s. doesnt tell the TRUTH.

Robbery is occurring from coast to coast. And sorry Also you need to do some research also. Cause my friend its NOT the HSP or the IC(install company) that 100$ charge back comes from the hands of DTV. It lands in our lap as a payroll deduction. And if your fool enough to work near or for those Mastec crooks then you also buy your OWN small part AND rent the "pretty white van" to boot!

Its articulated EXtortion .. no 2 ways about it. Purposely done from Top to Bottom..

ALSO**** to this forum and the moderators (especialy E) i want to send a apology to my above demeanor. I used a post to express truth and hardship based frustration
not for myself but for every REAl tech's left in this industry. We are a dieing breed and are being forced out and /or to fight back. I for one have chosen to fight with a Vengence. Our fighters from coast to coast are in great numbers and my views are no way shape or form limited to "my eyes". Dtv and their "approved' racketers" have crossed a line and now the evidence is now surfacing. Go read where the UNION has stepped in to save and expose the TRUTH. There IS a nation wide campaign to stop these crooks and numerous Union are involved. IBEW, CWA and the likes. This story (thread) of the mastec techs. Well go search the IBEW national web site.. THAT OFFICE IS NOW IBEW represented!. This thing is going hit the "lights" like a tidal wave before its over.= EXPOSURE OF SIMPLE TRUTH. As a matter of fact i may be one of those just carry the torch.. ya think?

Again in my previous post do i mean to deteriorate anyones character or to blaspheme anyone. E now (i hope knows this). I guess call it "SHOCK AND AWE" and those comments were not meant to be personal in any way shape or formm.

Also mr or Mrs CSR. your post just adds to the reflection of what is more of "what they say".

I guess when these dealers get that piece of paper with Charge back on them
in the amout almost 300,000$ at one time. When i hold that paper IN my Hand i guess thats a dream too?

Imagine this. > orig paid 40-70$

Cx unplugs ph line cause "little Jimmy" dont neede PPV = -5$
Cx then on the 55 th day knocks tv after ch3 = -100$
the home is a 4 rec home. Cx doesnt want to pay for wall fish or the other rip off of 75$ wireless phone jack so 2 more rec arent on a ph period. (remember The CSR and 'the seller" says FREE installation.

Ok lets total now: -15 = -100$= -115
orig pay ? 40-70
total= -75 to-45.

Now this is just a proven written senerio. I have scene the numbers show alot worse.

Where is that not labeled a racket in any American biz society ?

Couple that with some guy buying the parts and Renting a company van requirement to bring forth Profits/new customers to those Already rich and deviant!

hmmm. lastly but Not least.. WHO IS THE *ONLY* FACE THAT ANY CUSTOMER EVER SEES.? WHO SWEATS AND MAKES THIS *WHOLe* CIRCLE SPIN?.
We the technicians that who.. The rest of the puzzle is nothing but a bunch of voices and 1-800 #'s. 
Whats left of them anyway.. TO me there is a Technician And then there is a Installer. Well DTV has a untrained bunch of kids called installers now. Wanna see the average tenure of any HSP office? lmao. Single digit ratios of more than 6 months.! Who did this to the public safety and customer satisfaction? DTV AND THEIR APPROVED HOME SERVICE PROVIDERS.

PS.. i just re-read that CSR post > WHAT? Go do some research and tell me HOW LONG brusiter and asociates has had this HSP contract. RAN off? ha not hardly. They have the WORST number in this country (besides Ne- D-tech) and they still have the contract. Are you nuts or blind? Go run the Secretary of states web sites per state and HSP and youll see why this is. Go look for a prominant name of John Mattingly (see JBM). Read further in to the federal govt web site involving the NLRB and his owned bluegrass Sat. (HSP). Go run the D-tech (HSP) per state Secretary of states office. Go run the affiliation to 'the rest". Ha any if ya dig real real far. In the Ohio area you will find proof of somethings that make a episode of the Soprano's like like a disney cartoon.
hmmmmm Now run the history and HOW LONG these people have had the DTV contracts. Run their Nc/NS rates, Run their, serv call rates. Their employee turn over rates.

Some may be Blind and live inside "the white picket fence" of "them". But the one typing this has been on 'this dig" for over 15 months now.

I cant print all what is unsurfaced nor do i want to. BUT theres more dirt here than what on the ground in Missisippi.

CSR if thats all you can dream.. sorry your some of the lost and gullable also who listened to much to "them". No personal offence intended and i think what i have as proof is alot 'lot more than "what they say".

I printed enough here for those curious to find. If ya dont feel like the dig.. just wait.. in due time you want have to dig.. it WILL be on the forefront and with the help of Unions and powerful others .. this is one time DTV isnt gonna scream "we didnt know" or we're not liable.

Oh on the Union front Btw why is that there ARE paid union busters and rampant intimidation and illegal firings and cases filed over it. Who is paying these guys and lawyers to thwart our efforts? lmao.=. the trail continues and funny "they" dig a whole and leave a train of bread crumbs all along the way.

These feelings and setiments can be found ALL across the internet and growing. Heck how ya think i found this thread to start with?

Go read the IBEW web site and see whats the TOP topic. > the same result of why some blessed man wrote this thread to start with.

They push WE fight![/QUOTE]


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## premio (Sep 26, 2006)

wuffie said:


> i really like my job, but i have to agree, the regulation is killing the industry. these big hsp's are losing the good techs & hiring drones that do not care about the job they do. (how can they, they can not make any money anymore, we all know the old saying {money talks & bulls*** walks} i have done it both ways & i like the old way better. all dtv needs to do for their image is create guidelines for what type of vehicle we work out of, make health insurance available to us, create a QC team or teams to check jobs at random in each state, and pay us the money we deserve. there are plenty of people to do it, they just need to find them. guidelines as follows- fail x# of QC'S and your out. it really is that simple. all of the money is making a few people rich, the rest of us just get a bad attitude.


You're living in the wrong time. Wal-Mart ahas proven over and over that Americans will sacrafice quality for price. It's how the American economy works, D* installers aren't in some unique world. There is very little ethic from employees and from employers these days, and the only thing that can possibly correct this is a major recession, which just might be around the corner.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

premio said:


> You're living in the wrong time. Wal-Mart ahas proven over and over that Americans will sacrafice quality for price. It's how the American economy works, D* installers aren't in some unique world. There is very little ethic from employees and from employers these days, and the only thing that can possibly correct this is a major recession, which just might be around the corner.


I might suggest a slight modification to your statement.

Walmart proved a number of things, actually: 1) there is a market for low cost items that also sacrifice some quality--you gotta hit the right combination; 2) excellent discipline, logistics, and execution can lower costs without sacrificing quality; 3) and several other retail principles relating to turnover of goods, stocking and distribution, etc.

There also is still a strong market for all the levels of quality so long as there is reasonable price points for each level of quality. (Emotion and positioning play into those purchase decisions as well.)

Happy HD New Year!
Tom


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I could be wrong (as I often am)....but it would appear we've pretty much covered this topic from every possible angle...


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

So what ever happened to the fired workers or the AG's investigation?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What a crock.
> 
> 1) Read the fraking contract you agree to with DirecTV.... It states you must keep a phone line connected to the reciever 24/7. Just because the unit works without a constant phone line, does mean it won't work... it just means that it isn't lieing.
> 
> ...


So, if DirecTV isn't tracking by phone how are they getting the data for the What's Hot (I think that's what they call it Interactve screens That give the most popular shows by region and national in a number of categories?


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

Trust me on this one if you have a phone line connected to a Directv unit and you didn't opt out of data collection.

They know what your watching!


With caller ID and Rec. ID numbers they can track everything and to say it's aggregated information is just you trusting them to dump the ID data.


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Matt9876 said:


> Trust me on this one if you have a phone line connected to a Directv unit and you didn't opt out of data collection.
> 
> They know what your watching!
> 
> With caller ID and Rec. ID numbers they can track everything and to say it's aggregated information is just you trusting them to dump the ID data.


Not if you have a tin foil hat like mine. It is formed into a cone to bounce the seeking signals away.:sure:


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## Marshmallow (Jan 3, 2008)

Talking with techs on a regular basis i can tell you, from what they have said they only get charged if they tell D* that it is connected and it is not. So they dont have to connect it, (D* prefers it for IPPV) they just have to correctly inform the activating csr as to wether or not it is.


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## slimline (Oct 30, 2007)

Matt9876 said:


> Trust me on this one if you have a phone line connected to a Directv unit and you didn't opt out of data collection.
> 
> They know what your watching!
> 
> With caller ID and Rec. ID numbers they can track everything and to say it's aggregated information is just you trusting them to dump the ID data.


hit it on the nose


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## mikbro (Nov 9, 2007)

Badger said:


> The point was that Ford and Firestone are two different companies! Mastec and Direct are two different companies. The employees involved worked for Mastec. Mastec told them to lie. The MASTEC employees went on tv and blew the whistle. Mastec fired their employees. That doesn't seem too hard to understand.


I have to disagree...

In my case I signed up for *Directv *on *Directv's *website... bought a *DirecTV *Hr-21 and scheduled *Directv *installation on *Directv's *website.

The installer that comes out installs my *Directv *satellite dish and receiver.

(Bold added for, well, emphasis )

In my case my install was pretty painless (converting from Dish, very little for the installer to do). Now, I am a pretty savvy consumer and I now that the installer that came out was not a "direct" employee of Directv - however the average consumer may not and should not have to make that distinction.

Ultimately the buck stops w/DirecTV - I am paying x $ to DirecTV for installation and service, and DirecTV is accountable for the actions and quality of the folks they send to me on their behalf.


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Now... who fired them?
> 
> The installer company that they work for?
> Or did DirecTV drop the entire installation company?
> ...


Im trying to read before responding, because these questions may have already been answered, but based on the first link I read (http://www.local6.com/money/9142100/detail.html), It looks like the install company is Mastec, and I dont beleive this $5 kickback is a nationwide thing. Atleast, nobody that I've talked to at Ironwood (who I've had good experiences with repeatedly) has mentioned it.

//

SO Now I've made it to page 3, and im still reading, but I wanted to point out.
Phone lines have 3 major purposes for DirecTV
1) Interactive services (primarily pay-per-views, a phone line is required so that the receiver can may a call back to DirecTV, so that it can report any PPV purchases, and be cleared for more PPV purchases); Unless you have a tivo which "requires" a daily call for who-knows-what
2) Regional Sports. Without a phone line connected to your receiver, you may notice that you're blacked out from some games that you otherwise wouldnt be. I dont know why that is... I really dont, but, it is.
3) "Mirror fraud". Having leased receivers activated to one account in multiple homes. If you've a couple receivers on your account, DirecTV may use the phone line to track where your receivers are. Thats how people get busted for (what I beleive is known as) "Signal Theft". One guy has 25 receivers on his account, he keeps 3, and installs the rest into his neighbors homes, then charges his neighbors for service...

//

Holy Beegezus! I just found where Earl said "The year is 2006" and I looked and sure enough, 06-30-06, this thread is old!



stevo65 said:


> Tecs do not get paid for phone lines to be hooked up to all recievers, that is free at thier expense. The phone line is only to be installed to the primary reciever only(and within 25 feet) under the contract and as a contractor i know this to be a fact. Also Mastec is in fact charging back 5 dollars a reciever that is not hooked up to a phone line, and that is including cell phone houses.(do you really think that is fair)? a D* rep for a local retailer said that the phone line is not a requirement to all recievers only the primary (if cust wants it). Now that is straight from Directv`s mouth.
> So as for the phone lines to all recievers always have been required is again a lie.
> 
> Having to put in phone lines for free and then hoping the customer will not unplug the phone line from the reciever after you leave or you will be charged back $5 anyways after the hard work of putting a phone line in...


For someone who is throwing around accusations (which I didnt quote), you sure are one to speak... Phone lines are "required" to be hooked up to each receiver, not just the primary... and not within any 25 feet. I also enjoy that a D* rep for a local retailer, AKA, a sales person for a local retailer that was in the electronics dept where the D* receivers are... Kinda like the installers are not DirecTV installers, rather they are subcontracted by DirecTV, sometimes they are even subcontracted by DirecTV's subcontractors!

I've had a guy in his maroon toyota pickup with a DirecTV magnet on the door, and I've had the guy with the Chevy Astro van wrapped with the DirecTV logo and the word 'Ironwood HSP' going across the side, and I've had the guy with the Ford E350 wrapped with DirecTV, wearing a blue flannel DirecTV shirt, all show up at my house within a months time. (I will say that calling the local Ironwood office I was able to track all 3 of these guys, even though I was sure the last guy was a DirecTV employee, not an Ironwood employee.)
The first one offered to do whatever it would take to get extra money... He tried to charge me for the multiswitch, etc etc etc... The latter two were alot better.

Yea, I forgot my point...
Anyway, As previously stated, phone lines are not required for the primary operation of a DirecTV receiver (except Tivo's, which may/may not cease functioning after 30 days if it hasnt made a call back). That doesnt mean DirecTV doesnt want you to have them hooked up if at all possible.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

CJTE said:


> Holy Beegezus! I just found where Earl said "The year is 2006" and I looked and sure enough, 06-30-06, this thread is old!


Don't ya just love when someone dredges up a year and a half old thread? :nono2:


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## DCFSCAZARES (Dec 4, 2006)

My receivers are not connected to a phone line and I have never had any problems. Earl, "are you sure you are not employed by Directv?" Maybe 10 years ago a phone line was probably necessary....technology has gone a long way and I very much doubt that a phone line is still needed.....What is the real motive here? If we could obtain a PPV movie or whatever through the internet...Why aggressively force customers to hook up their receivers to a phone line...Does not make any sense... Therefore, I will continue to keep my receivers phone line free.


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## Annihilator31 (Nov 21, 2006)

urnote96 said:


> IF directv enforced the phone lines like they should, i know there would be tons of people in North Dakota that would be mad, cause north dakota now has more cell phones than land lines....


 You got that right! Landlines are becoming a thing of the past, it's time dtv woke up to that small fact.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

The phone line is in place for the same reason that it has always been in place: to keep subscribers honest about their commitment to keep all of their receivers in one and only one household.

It remains the only technology that can reasonably be expected to rat out a receiver that isn't where it is supposed to be even though VOIP is making it less certain.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Annihilator31 said:


> You got that right! Landlines are becoming a thing of the past, it's time dtv woke up to that small fact.


Until such time that all DIRECTV receivers can otherwise report that they are where they are supposed to be, the phone line is the only viable option to ascertain the location of a receiver.


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## Annihilator31 (Nov 21, 2006)

harsh said:


> Until such time that all DIRECTV receivers can otherwise report that they are where they are supposed to be, the phone line is the only viable option to ascertain the location of a receiver.


I fully understand your point and I agree with keeping track of receivers in the correct houses. Every year more and more people do away with thier landline and go cell phone or viop only, so whats going to happen when the vast majority are in this catagory? And for the person who said that techs should install phone lines in homes that don't have phone service, you are just retarded. If a customer has a phone jack close enough that the supplied cord can reach, I always hook it up. If a customer wants a jack installed, I am more than willing and capable for a charge to install one. However, there are many new techs out there who have no business touching phone systems. We are satellite tech's not phone techs, electricians, or even plumbers. In the end it's just one more thing for customers to blame problems on Directv and thier techs. Next thing you know you'll have some moron saying we should install an electrical outlet were the customer wants thier tv if one is not available and do it for free.


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

So let me get this straight ... If my household has NO landline ... 

Direct TV cannot be installed at my home ???


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

First of all, realize that this thread was dredged up after a year and a half of dormancy. The newer DirecTV receivers, especially, have no trouble not having a landline connected to them (you lose a few features like caller-id and remote ordering of PPVs). There are a large number of people who have no phione connected and have no problems at all.


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## starsfan09 (Jan 4, 2008)

Annihilator31 said:


> I fully understand your point and I agree with keeping track of receivers in the correct houses. Every year more and more people do away with thier landline and go cell phone or viop only, so whats going to happen when the vast majority are in this catagory? And for the person who said that techs should install phone lines in homes that don't have phone service, you are just retarded. If a customer has a phone jack close enough that the supplied cord can reach, I always hook it up. If a customer wants a jack installed, I am more than willing and capable for a charge to install one. However, there are many new techs out there who have no business touching phone systems. We are satellite tech's not phone techs, electricians, or even plumbers. In the end it's just one more thing for customers to blame problems on Directv and thier techs. Next thing you know you'll have some moron saying we should install an electrical outlet were the customer wants thier tv if one is not available and do it for free.


So help me out please! - I had DTV installed one day ago. I do not have a phone jack located near by, but do have a wireless internet in my home - what do I need to do to connect my internet/VOIP to the receiver - The tech suggested a wireless device so I could plug a ethernet cable to the receiver, but was not clear that it was a requirement (i have since read the whole contract) from reading these threads - i guess I need to do this???

Thanks


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

starsfan09 said:


> So help me out please! - I had DTV installed one day ago. I do not have a phone jack located near by, but do have a wireless internet in my home - what do I need to do to connect my internet/VOIP to the receiver - The tech suggested a wireless device so I could plug a ethernet cable to the receiver, but was not clear that it was a requirement (i have since read the whole contract) from reading these threads - i guess I need to do this???
> 
> Thanks


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=74426


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## starsfan09 (Jan 4, 2008)

houskamp said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=74426


Thank You!! Great link!


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## techstar25 (Nov 26, 2007)

Just before I got my directv installed, I saw all this stuff on the forum about it requiring a phone, and the "blacked out sports" thing worried me.

However when the installer arrived, he came in, did his job and finished up with no mention of a phone line. I said to him "Don't I, um, need a phone line for it to work?" He said no, it's only for ordering ppv's and that's just as easy to do on the website. 

I have not had a problem with sports being blacked out, and I don't order ppv's anyway.

I'm not in Orlando (like the Local6 article about Mastec), but I am the next county over.


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## Tech 9 (Feb 13, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There is a difference between making them "lie"...
> And the installer "lie" to avoid a kickback.
> 
> With the "sub-contractor" model, there is always going to be issues like this.
> ...


Here is an idea for policy change: How about having whomever the customer purchases their system from, inform the customer them that they must have a phone line located and or installed prior to the technician arriving to install the system. And that there is an extra charge if the tech has to perform the task of installing a not existing connection. I.E. wall fishing drilling holes etc.

Since this seems to be an issue, if it is in the "customers contract" and has been explain to the customer, then they obviously know when the tech arrives.

With that being said the tech is then not put in a position to sell the customer something they obviously do not want.

1. Explain to the customer the importance of having the phone line connected, if they do not wish to have the tech do the work and pay for it, then the tech should not be held responsible.

2. document this information on your work order.

3. Wait for your company to back charge you

4. contact a lawyer

P.S. - "tech to tech" pray that the customer has a phone connection in every room right next to were they wish to have their receiver installed. LoL, right.


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