# Probably jumping ship to FIOS TV



## jmurphy644 (May 19, 2003)

I'm not all that impressed with the HD upgrade deals and new programming packages being offered. I guess it may just be sour grapes over being a very early 921 user. I just found out this week that I can get Verizon FIOS TV to complement my FIOS 15Mbps Internet and I will most likely dump Dish without too many bad feelings and move to V* (Verizon). 

Advantages for Dish:
Remotes are UHF
Larger DVR hard drive
Lower DVR fee

Advantages for FIOS
Fiberconnection (virtually unltd bandwidth)
Video on Demand (VOD) Library
Locals in HD
Less Expensive (no separate HD charges although the HD DVR fee is $13/mo)
Motorola STB 
Less channel compression

FIOS Costs
Expanded Basic $35
DVR Fee (for two HD DVRs) $26
Movie Package (Encore, Starz, TMC etc. including VOD) $12
Total = $73

I'm Paying $75 on Dish right now before the price increase and I really don't even have a movie package, just AT180.

FIOS Expanded Basic with Locals = $35, AT180=$55

I've also lost my look angle at 61.5 unless I get really creative with where I move the dish to.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Just about everyone who has an opportunity to go FIOS will go. It's a no-brainer.


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

Gotta make sure to look into the deep details to ensure that you are comparing apples to apples.

Dish HD Channel Chart:
http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/programming/HD_Channel_Lineup.pdf

Verizon Channel Chard (for N. Texas):
http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome/Includes/FiOSTV/NorthTexasLineup.pdf

Some subtle differences:

AT180 (and Dish): $55
* Includes East and West feeds of a number of channels (in my case, the kids channels are best for being able to record a missed kids show, etc) - Verizon does advertize VOD stuff, not sure what all is there.
* Includes a few of the movie pack channels, but have to pay a good $20 to also get Starz and Showtime channels that verizon includes
* 25 hr HD PVR space
* $6 for the first HD DVR, $12 for each additional HD DVR ($250 upfront lease or $699 upfront purchase costs for 622)
* 15 Voom HD channels
* Already announced Food Network HD and HGTV HD.

Expanded Basic (and Verizon): $35
* Have to spend $5.99 to get the Sports pack for channels Dish includes, such as NFL Network, TVG, Fox Soccer, Outdoor channel, etc. Verizon does offer 3 national Fox College Sports channels in this tier, I assume sports from their array of Fox Sports channels that are not subject to blackout like the dish sports pack is... but only my guess.
* Only 12 hr HD PVR space (possible DVR networking support in second qtr).
* $12.95 per month per HD DVR receiver (no upfront box costs)
* No OTA support (most OTA channels are included in the package though)
* Includes Starz HD and Wealth TV HD.
* Rumors to include MHD.
* No CSTV or WE.
* Has Logo (like I care)
* Recent evaluations over at the avsforum sister site says the SD channels are better then Dish, national HD channels are very similar, and local HD channels are a bit softer then OTA.

Just a few talking points that I take into account when evaluating them. Oh yea, and all the freakin money I've already spent on my existing Dish setup (guess I can re-coup some of that on ebay).

With past experiences about how much crapcast raises rates, etc... This 'introductary' price for Fios TV really seems like a price to get you in, and then gets jacked up to a more sane price a bit down the road.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

FIOS should be available to me in a few months, but one thing that may stop me from switching is the lack of a UHF remote in their receivers.

I distribute the outputs from all three of my DISH receivers (4000, 508, 508) to all my dozen or so TV's in a way much like a cable system works. Having a UHF remote at each TV lets me select a particular channel on any of the receivers or operate the PVR functions.

This capability will be expensive to duplicate without UHF remotes.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Harmony 890!

Now where did I put that $400...?


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

airpolgas said:


> Harmony 890!
> 
> Now where did I put that $400...?


*REALLY* expensive...

I'd want one at each of my TV's - that's what I have now with lots of relatively inexpensive DISH remotes.


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## bear paws (Jan 11, 2006)

I keep waving at the FIOS trucks to stop at my street. Not yet. 
+++ TIVO works with out the stb taking a [email protected]#%$^&^& nap!!!
I would give up a lot of channels to watch the popular SDs in ''clear vision'' on my 62".
Come on FIOS!

Bear!

PS If I have to I'll go wireless IR repeater. Cheap.


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## arundc (Jan 14, 2006)

jmurphy644 said:


> I'm not all that impressed with the HD upgrade deals and new programming packages being offered. I guess it may just be sour grapes over being a very early 921 user. I just found out this week that I can get Verizon FIOS TV to complement my FIOS 15Mbps Internet and I will most likely dump Dish without too many bad feelings and move to V* (Verizon). ....


I have the FiOS 15/2 connection as well but TV is not available in Montgomery County yet and I think it won't be for some time (thank you ComCast)  so I just upgraded to HD Bronze on DN. 18 months committment ain't too bad - I have been with Dish since '00 and they've been good to me. I'll wait out FiOS and let them fix any kinks first - broadbandreports details some issues folks are having in TX and VA. I think one advantage FiOS TV has just like cable vs. anything dish - no loss of signal in inclement weather like snow/rain or trees.

We'll see what the future holds...


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

I'm mad at Verizon because the FiOS fiber was laid in my yard over a year ago, and still not being offered here. I'll be really pissed at them if it rolls out in June right after signing with Dish for 18 months. 

But on the "no loss of signal in inclement weather like snow/rain or trees.
", you obviously haven't had digital cable. They get the signals from space just like us, and they get dropouts and rainfade just the same. Back before mine starting being bad with rain, I had digital cable and Dish for a month or so, and cable was dropping out or fading often enough to be annoying. 

For those with bad sat signals it'd likely be better, but it's not perfect because it's just as susceptible to atmospheric conditions as any other satellite based service  maybe it's better now, but I've got friends with comcast HD who mention it happens still from time to time so....


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## bear paws (Jan 11, 2006)

Strange?? I had cable once before PRIMESTAR, never had that happen. THey use BUDs. BIG BUDs.

Bear!


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

I was getting stoked about fios but in researching it I found out that only a small corner of my town is eligible for it. I suppose the rest is handled by SBC so it looks like no fios for me.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

bear paws said:


> Strange?? I had cable once before PRIMESTAR, never had that happen. THey use BUDs. BIG BUDs.
> 
> Bear!


I never saw rainfaid in huge storms with cable because usually I lost service altogether.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

I hope comcast will upgrade to Fiber Optics in ths SF bay area when that happens bye bye DISH


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## arundc (Jan 14, 2006)

Rogueone said:


> But on the "no loss of signal in inclement weather like snow/rain or trees.", you obviously haven't had digital cable. They get the signals from space just like us, and they get dropouts and rainfade just the same. Back before mine starting being bad with rain, I had digital cable and Dish for a month or so, and cable was dropping out or fading often enough to be annoying.....


Ahh, that's news to me about Digital Cable... I have been ignoring Comcast through the years since I've had DishN for such a long time. Thanks for pointing it out to me.


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## Chris Freeland (Mar 24, 2002)

Rogueone said:


> But on the "no loss of signal in inclement weather like snow/rain or trees.
> ", you obviously haven't had digital cable. They get the signals from space just like us, and they get dropouts and rainfade just the same. Back before mine starting being bad with rain, I had digital cable and Dish for a month or so, and cable was dropping out or fading often enough to be annoying.
> 
> For those with bad sat signals it'd likely be better, but it's not perfect because it's just as susceptible to atmospheric conditions as any other satellite based service  maybe it's better now, but I've got friends with comcast HD who mention it happens still from time to time so....


I 2nd that, I had real bad problems with both digital cable and internet going out every time it rained and it would stay out until things dried out
, tech then discovered that the main line had squirrel bites in it, digital signals seam to be effected more by moisture in the lines then analog. Since Comcast replaced that line, the whole digital cable and internet no longer goes out completely every time it rains and I know longer have to wait instill it dries out, however I do still experience some drop outs on some but not all of the digital channels when it rains. Since the main line was replaced, the rain fade problem on digital cable is still a little worse then when I had E*.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

tomcrown1 said:


> I hope comcast will upgrade to Fiber Optics in ths SF bay area when that happens bye bye DISH


Comcast has been fiber in the Bay Area for quite some time now. The last few dozen feet are RG6, but they started installing fiber many years ago. Certainly they aren't Fiber To The Desk (FTTD), but it is a very reasonable (and durable) compromise.

I think one of the major points that people are missing is that fiber is not limitless in its capacity. It has a very finite capacity and expanding that capacity is not a simple matter.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

They are?? I contacted comcast and was told that they are not fiber optic yet. Comcast still uses the same cable lines that were placed by Viacom.(I am in San Francisco it may be faber optics in other areas)


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

harsh said:


> I think one of the major points that people are missing is that fiber is not limitless in its capacity. It has a very finite capacity and expanding that capacity is not a simple matter.


huh? yes it is. the whole point to fiber is, you put OC3 transmitters/receivers on there now, and in a few years, you need more capacity, you "simply" replace the oc3's with OC12's. That's IT. that's the list. Want to up it another 4 fold? replace those oc12's with OC48 transmitters/receivers, and you're good to go. The only thing Comcast needs worry about it putting the proper cable in the ground to start with so they only need change the lasers when they want to increase capacity. Internet companies have been doing this for years. Build an OC3 network, want to make it OC12? Just swing the fibers from the OC3 card onto an OC12 card. enjoy. AS long as the company pays attention to the type of fiber it lays, there is no problem upgrading to at least OC48, possibly even OC192 (but there isn't likely a need for OC192 to our houses  heck, if you had OC3 to your house, you wouldn't know what to do with it 

granted, it's not as simple as replacing 2 things, they have to go around the network and replace a few of these, but it's nothing like having to lay all new cable everytime they want to upgrade.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

Rogueone said:


> I'm mad at Verizon because the FiOS fiber was laid in my yard over a year ago, and still not being offered here. I'll be really pissed at them if it rolls out in June right after signing with Dish for 18 months.


I feel the same way right now. I sure don't want to make a 18 month (or 24 months to DirecTV) commitment if something better is right around the corner. I have even considered buying a ViP622 (DISH is selling them for $798, and some internet dealers are selling them for about $699) because I feel that, if I buy one, I could re-sell it for (hopefully) for at least $500 in a year. To me, that is better than paying $299 to lease it and be stuck with the 18 month commitment and the monthly lease fee.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

hmm, $6 lease over 18 months, is $108, so $299 and $108 is $407. Buying is maybe $699 if no other parts are needed (since I have a working 921, I'd think not). But if i wanted to change to say FiOS is 6 months, Dish would charge what, $400 fee? 

At $108 every 18 months, the 622 would have to be useful for another 48 months (4 years) after the commit to become more expensive than buying will cost, unless one figures selling on ebay into the equation. But that is hard to calculate a value for. plus, with FiOS, you get a much shorter record time on the DVR, and no guarantee the VOD would carry the programming I'd want. 

And it's not like if FiOS showed up in 6 months there is much chance it would offer substantially more programming right? Although maybe they'd have MASN which Dish still hasn't agreed to carry. maybe that'll change now that DC has approved the stadium lease and we're about to get real owners  

anyone know what is the minimum we could pay per month to be considering still having service if we want to essentially shut it off before 18 months but keep it "going" until the lease runs out?


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## jmurphy644 (May 19, 2003)

Rogueone said:


> hmm, $6 lease over 18 months, is $108, so $299 and $108 is $407. Buying is maybe $699 if no other parts are needed (since I have a working 921, I'd think not). But if i wanted to change to say FiOS is 6 months, Dish would charge what, $400 fee?
> 
> At $108 every 18 months, the 622 would have to be useful for another 48 months (4 years) after the commit to become more expensive than buying will cost, unless one figures selling on ebay into the equation. But that is hard to calculate a value for. plus, with FiOS, you get a much shorter record time on the DVR, and no guarantee the VOD would carry the programming I'd want.
> 
> ...


Well, also FiOS has HD locals - Full Fairfax County FiOS lineup is in the link below. 
( http://www22.verizon.com/FiOSForHome/Includes/FiOSTV/FairfaxCo.pdf)

Also for me one biggie is that I essentially lost my look at 61.5 from tree growth so forget about any chance of Dish HD locals for me.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Unless I'm remembering wrong...

Wouldn't the original reason to "jump ship" be due to it being on fire or some otherwise reason it is sinking, thus the need to "jump" ship? And didn't one used to "jump ship" into basically open water, with the hope (but not guarantee) another ship would come along for a rescue?

If so... then customers going from Satellite to FIOS wouldn't be jumping ship, since Dish isn't sinking and FIOS would be available for them to jump to.

Just being educational


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

HDMe said:


> And didn't one used to "jump ship" into basically open water, with the hope (but not guarantee) another ship would come along for a rescue?


Jumping ship literally meant leaving your assignment (without permission) on one ship for one on another ship. This "jumping ship" process happened while in port as opposed to at sea. Even today, it means leaving the employ of one company for another where the money is greener.


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## jmurphy644 (May 19, 2003)

OK, so I've had it for a week now.....Thoughts for others of you that might be considering it....

Advantages for DiSH....
* Real UHF remotes...(why Motorola doesn't have UHF remotes is beyond me)
* Can set a remote code so it controls a particular box
(I had to go back and buy a couple IR receivers for use with my ChannelPlus video distribution unit for the rest of the house)
* Bigger HD for PVR (Motorola QIP6416 Verizon Uses is 160GB)
* Dish remote is def nicer to use...I guess I didn't appreciate its nice sized buttons...Motorola has these microscopic buttons--but I will put it all into the Pronto eventually

Advantages for FiOS
* PQ is gorgeous....with fiber I doubt they are doing much if any compression. This box uses QAM for most channels and IP for Video on Demand 
* Video on Demand is REALLY NICE and with it, the 160GB hard drive is more than adequate....If you sub to a movie package most of those movies for the month are avail on VOD anytime you want
* HD LOCALS...YEAH...and not just a few of them...I have 8 HD locals, plus 9 standard HD nationals (not counting movie HD channels). There is no extra charge for HD other than the $12/mo for the HD PVR STB
* Dish 921 v. Motorola QIP6416...I won't even go there.


Install was kind of fun, I had 3 Verizon trucks here as they are training some techs for California deployment. Overall, its a good value and the service is really nice. I have had the service for a week and had to call tech support one time when the VOD stopped working right. I got a real human in < 1 min, she was technical, able to solve the problem by sending a cold reboot hit to by STBs. Dish is still a great service too but the HD locals etc made this a no brainer for me.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

You're very lucky. I'd love to get FIOS. Do you have their Internet package? If so, what is the speed and price? Seems like it was in the 15Mb range.


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## arundc (Jan 14, 2006)

jmurphy644 said:


> OK, so I've had it for a week now.....Thoughts for others of you that might be considering it....
> 
> Advantages for DiSH....
> ...
> ...


Thanks for the honest opinion. I have FiOS (15/2) Internet and unfortunately where I live in Maryland, I think its going to be a while before they start the TV service so I decided to stick with Dish HD. I'll be with them for the next 17-18 months (no complaints and service is great) and hopefully by then FiOS TV will be available for me to make a final choice.

Enjoy!


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

murph, does V have MASN ? I am going to go bonkers if Dish doesn't get MASN going soon


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## jmurphy644 (May 19, 2003)

kmcnamara said:


> You're very lucky. I'd love to get FIOS. Do you have their Internet package? If so, what is the speed and price? Seems like it was in the 15Mb range.


I have the 15Mbps down/ 2Mbps up for $45/mo

Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95

Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95

Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95


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## jmurphy644 (May 19, 2003)

Rogueone said:


> murph, does V have MASN ? I am going to go bonkers if Dish doesn't get MASN going soon


Yes, its in the expanded Basic Tier.

Expanded Basic gives you ESPN, ESPN CLassic, ESPNews, ESPN 2, Comcast Sports Net Mid Atlantic, Mid Atlantic Sports Network, Speed Channel.

Expanded Sports Package ($6/month) adds
Fox College Sports Atlantic
Fox College Sports Central
Fox College Sports Pacific
Tennis Channel
NFL Network
Outdoor Channel
Sportsman Channel
Fox Sports in Espanol
Fox Soccer Channel
GolTV
TVG (horse racing)
Mav TV
Blackbelt TV
G4


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

crap crap crap. I get the feeling comcast is keeping V out of Prince William at the moment. our Fios fiber was laid about 18 months ago, and we still don't even have the internet portion. der 

been asking Dish, and the best they can say is they are trying but can't say if it'll happen before opening day. this blows!! argh!


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## normang (Nov 14, 2002)

FIOS has such limited coverage now and will for eons, its like DSL, all these phone co's send you ads in the mail, sign up for their cheap DSL and you find that you can't get it in "your" area..


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## cahusker (Apr 16, 2005)

I had had FIOS internet for about 8 months in Huntington Beach Ca.. I was holding out for them also for TV but I don't know how long it is going to be. So it looks like Dish. I will wait untill April 1st to decide. A guuy mentiond that April 1st Dish will have the 622HD DVR for $99. He was told this by a cs rep.. Has anyone else heard this?


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

The 622 is $299 to lease. If you own a 942.911 that you choose to send back, then you'll get a $200 rebate - only after 4/1


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## DucTape (Feb 18, 2006)

Yep lets see 19 years ago my cable company said maybe next year but alas it took 18 years and no digital as yet, maybe next year. Just bewildering thinking how long FIOS will be, guess I could have it beamed live at my viewing eh.


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## Cokeswigga (Jan 25, 2005)

AllieVi said:


> FIOS should be available to me in a few months, but one thing that may stop me from switching is the lack of a UHF remote in their receivers.
> 
> I distribute the outputs from all three of my DISH receivers (4000, 508, 508) to all my dozen or so TV's in a way much like a cable system works. Having a UHF remote at each TV lets me select a particular channel on any of the receivers or operate the PVR functions.
> 
> This capability will be expensive to duplicate without UHF remotes.


I totally agree the ONLY thing keeping me from switching to FIOS TV is that Dish has UHF remotes. I DO NOT want the DVR in my bedroom, unless they start making them totally silent. Maybe sometime soon they will stop using harddrives and start using the same technology as compact flash/sd/memory stick and this will quiet down the STB's

BTW I'm in temecula too, and I already have FIOS internet. I will be closely watching though.


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## Hound (Mar 20, 2005)

Fios in New Jersey Philadelphia DMA is going to have Comcast Sportsnet not
available on Dish. Comcast cannot withhold it from Verizon. Terrestrial exception
does not apply. I am signing up for Fios when available.

Read this link about Fios.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051209/SPORTS/512100328/1002/ARCHIVES


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## jmurphy644 (May 19, 2003)

Cokeswigga said:


> I totally agree the ONLY thing keeping me from switching to FIOS TV is that Dish has UHF remotes. I DO NOT want the DVR in my bedroom, unless they start making them totally silent. Maybe sometime soon they will stop using harddrives and start using the same technology as compact flash/sd/memory stick and this will quiet down the STB's
> 
> BTW I'm in temecula too, and I already have FIOS internet. I will be closely watching though.


I have both FiOS STBs downstairs in the family room. One of them is for the two upstairs TVs and I take the composite output of that and run it to a ChannelPlus RF modulator...The output of the Modulator runs via Coax to the upstairs TVs.  At the upstairs TVs, I have a small Channel Plus IR receiver. The ChannelPlus modulator then echoes those IR commands out an IR connector which is placed in front of the IR window of the Motorola STB. Video quality is very good via the modulator etc.
http://www.channelplus.com/product_detail.php?productId=99


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

jmurphy644 said:


> I have both FiOS STBs downstairs in the family room. One of them is for the two upstairs TVs and I take the composite output of that and run it to a ChannelPlus RF modulator...The output of the Modulator runs via Coax to the upstairs TVs. At the upstairs TVs, I have a small Channel Plus IR receiver. The ChannelPlus modulator then echoes those IR commands out an IR connector which is placed in front of the IR window of the Motorola STB. Video quality is very good via the modulator etc.
> http://www.channelplus.com/product_detail.php?productId=99


A couple of probably stupid questions:

1. Why don't you connect both STB's to the modulator?
2. Can the modulator hookup via coax transmit HD as well as SD?
3. Are either of your STB's DVR's?

I currently have Directv and 2 Directivo units. They're both hooked up to a ChannelPlus modulator (as well as a DVD player) and the signals are then sent via my home network to 6 TV's. Any of the 6 TV's can access either of the Directivo units. I don't have HD yet, but I'm thinking of getting it and possibly switching to FiOS. One of the main things holding me back is that each of my Directivo's has over 200 hours of capacity (SD)


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> Verizon does offer 3 national Fox College Sports channels in this tier, I assume sports from their array of Fox Sports channels that are not subject to blackout like the dish sports pack is... but only my guess.


You'd be right, sir. The 3 Fox Sports diginets cable and FTTH have are basically the 20some actual FSNs combined. It's mostly NCAA Sports that's not blacked out, like right now Fox Sports Pacific is simulcasting a college basketball game from Fox Sports Net Arizona.


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## jmurphy644 (May 19, 2003)

spartanstew said:


> A couple of probably stupid questions:
> 
> 1. Why don't you connect both STB's to the modulator?
> 2. Can the modulator hookup via coax transmit HD as well as SD?
> ...


1. I just like having one STB dedicated to nothing but the downstairs
2. The model I have can't (composite only) but I think they do make them
3. Yes, both are HD DVRs (there is no SD DVR) even though all the upstairs TVs are SD. Kinda makes me want to get a 30" flat panel HD disp in the Master BR


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## akiliking (Mar 22, 2006)

Does any have the tech support number for FIOS TV... I think i need to have my VOD reset too.

Also is there a website for managing my FIOS TV and Internet accounts?

Im having a hard time finding this information on Verizon's websites. its all DSL and voice service based.



jmurphy644 said:


> OK, so I've had it for a week now.....Thoughts for others of you that might be considering it....
> 
> Advantages for DiSH....
> * Real UHF remotes...(why Motorola doesn't have UHF remotes is beyond me)
> ...


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## bimmerboy750 (Feb 28, 2006)

Rogueone said:


> crap crap crap. I get the feeling comcast is keeping V out of Prince William at the moment. our Fios fiber was laid about 18 months ago, and we still don't even have the internet portion. der
> 
> been asking Dish, and the best they can say is they are trying but can't say if it'll happen before opening day. this blows!! argh!


No FIOS at all in Calvert Co. My development was built with fiber. and just got a 622 too, and have comcast for internet only.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

akiliking said:


> Does any have the tech support number for FIOS TV... I think i need to have my VOD reset too.
> 
> Also is there a website for managing my FIOS TV and Internet accounts?
> 
> Im having a hard time finding this information on Verizon's websites. its all DSL and voice service based.


Maybe this link will help: http://www22.verizon.com/FiOSForHome/channels/FiOSTV/FiosTVHome.aspx

By the way, you're really lucky to have FIOS. I only live a few miles from you but it will probably be years before it's available. Actually it may never happen because I think I live in a SWB area.


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