# 103CB Signals Dead



## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

So over the past month or so we have been getting a few signal issues the odd 771 issue etc. Today middle of watching a show on a HD channel (DIY 230)and poof 771 error and it hasnt come back yet. I snapped a quick set of shots of the signal strengths.



http://imgur.com/NAIoz


Any thoughts before I call D*?

EDIT: Of late we have had some low temps for us, last night the low was 12.5deg F.


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## Jacob Braun (Oct 6, 2011)

This is not related to the signal issue you have been experiencing. It is highly recommended to not call right now.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Your 103(cb) screen shows all zeros. That's the problem. Sounds like it's a transmission issue according to Jacob.


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Jacob Braun said:


> This is not related to the signal issue you have been experiencing. It is highly recommended to not call right now.


LOL seems D* still wont let you guys come right out and say something is wrong, just like back when my wife worked there? Ok so the loss of the channel is not related to the other random 771's we have been getting. Got it.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

All zeros on 103Cb.


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## EricTheRed (Mar 7, 2008)

103CB is all 0 for me as well. 99cb has transponders 15-20 all at 0. I just called D* and got a "We are aware of technical difficulties with some channels and are working on it." recording before the main menu prompt.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

I hope they get this ameliorated quickly.


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## Nyrcup94 (Oct 2, 2014)

You stand correct.... All of the Conus 103b are zeroes. Not your system or cold affecting the lnb. Tech support does confirm problem with uplink to the b side of 103. Just be patient and it will come back.


Signal went down right before 2p eastern time.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Yes, all signals on 103cb are zero for me also....


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## sneakysnake1 (Feb 19, 2015)

If you are wanting to watch the channels that are missing - set your receiver to show sd duplicates - sd channels are not affected - Menu/settings & help/settings/display/preferences/guide hd channels set to show all channels and make sure if you have fave channels setup to change it to go to the full guide list or you still wont see them


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

For reference, these are the channels on 103cb:

111 IAC HD
204 HLN HD
205 Sportsmix
230 DIY HD
232 Cooking HD
238 Reelz HD
256 TCM HD
264 BBC America HD
266 FYI HD
271 H2 HD
274 Ovation HD
275 QVC HD
276 Nat Geo HD
279 OWN HD
283 Nat Geo Wild HD
285 ID HD
286 Destination America HD
289 Disney Junior HD
304 TV Land HD
305 Ion East HD
333 MTV2 HD
342 Fusion HD
353 Bloomberg HD
356 MSNBC HD
362 Weather Channel HD
404 Galavision HD
410 NBC Universo HD
455 Univision Deportes HD
458 TWC Deportes HD
505 HBO2 West HD
516 Cinemax West HD
541 Encore Action HD
564 IFC HD
576 Playboy HD
611 SEC HD
654 FS Florida HD
674 Root Sports Southwest HD
677 Longhorn HD
694 Fox Sports San Diego HD

Along with several HD Cinema channels


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, 103cb is the ailing satellite D10 ( the CONUS beam xpndrs).

Hope this isn't a sign it has or is close to giving up the ghost. If so, then D14's launch couldn't have been more fortuitous.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## cmasia (Sep 18, 2007)

Channels 480, 490-1, 491, 491, 492, 493, 494, and 495 are out as well.

These are part time channels for UEFA Mix, Super 15 Rugby, and English Premiere League matches.

They are probably taken from the HD Cinema channels KyL mentioned above.

Hope they're back soon.
7 Super 15 and 5 EPL matches this weekend.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The standby logo is on 103cb so any part time channel that's offline will have that instead of the usual DirecTV logo, however the feeds they actual use when they're live vary each time depending on what's available. The bulk of the pool of HD cinema channels they use are on 99cb, however there's a few on 103cb.


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

All the affected channels are still working fine via streaming on the website and mobile apps. Definitely looks like an issue with the satellite itself.


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## tnnolman (Aug 9, 2009)

It is an internal power problem onboard with the D10 satellite. That is a major problem. Some of the channels/networks will have to move to either D12 or D14. We will have to wait on this problem for a while.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

tnnolman said:


> It is an internal power problem onboard with the D10 satellite. That is a major problem. Some of the channels/networks will have to move to either D12 or D14. We will have to wait on this problem for a while.


Interesting .... source of this info.?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## twizt3dkitty (Aug 29, 2009)

tnnolman said:


> It is an internal power problem onboard with the D10 satellite. That is a major problem. Some of the channels/networks will have to move to either D12 or D14. We will have to wait on this problem for a while.





HoTat2 said:


> Interesting .... source of this info.?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


a blast facts email confirmed this. Along with the same list. Also ION in select local markets.

Local ION channel is also affected in many markets

Local markets with ION affected:

· Albany-Schenectady-Troy NY

· Buffalo NY

· Columbia SC

· Greenville-New Bern-Washington NC

· Hartford-New Haven CT

· Jacksonville FL-Brunswick GA

· Miami-Ft Lauderdale FL

· Norfolk-Newport News VA

· Providence RI-New Bedford MA

· Raleigh-Durham NC

· San Antonio TX

· Syracuse NY

· Washington DC - Hagerstown MD

· West Palm Beach-Ft Pierce FL

· Wilkes Barre-Scranton PA


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Those markets don't get a local Ion feed, they just have a remap of Ion East on 305 to the number of their local affiliate.

Some transponders on D14 are now lighting up, hopefully they can get some of the channels back soon.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Sec network was out when I came home. Back now.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The following are back:
111 IAC HD
204 HLN HD
232 Cooking HD
238 Reelz HD
271 H2 HD
342 Fusion HD
564 IFC HD
611 SEC HD
677 Longhorn HD
694 FS San Diego HD

The following just have a blank screen and might be in the process of returning:
275 QVC HD
279 OWN HD
305 Ion East HD
404 Galavision HD
576 Playboy HD

The following HD Cinema channels that were on 103cb are gone completely:
133
134
135


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## skierbri10 (Sep 18, 2006)

Several center ice channels are down or missing.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

In a few minutes, after I find the right SHEF command and parse the data, I'll report where it's coming from


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## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

Does that mean D10 is fixed or that the channels are all shifted to a different satellite?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

They're firing up D14


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Got a feeling they are moving them to other sats. KyL416 will let us know I hope.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Wonder if this will mean that new services will be postponed if D14 has to be used for this long term.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

I'm still parsing them, but they are from D14 99ca


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The initial batch, it looks like they're doing it by transponder, the VPIDs are the same, i.e. TID 010 has the same channels that were on 103cb TID 124, TID 012 has the same channels as 103cb TID 126, TID 014 has the same channels as 103cb TID 128, TID 018 has the same channels as 103cb TID 129


99ca TPN 11 (TID 010):
NUM - NAME - VPID
204 - HLNHD - 1040
232 - COOKHD - 1030
238 - REELZHD - 1060
271 - H2HD - 1020
564 - IFCHD - 1010
694 - FSSDHD - 1050

99ca TPN 13 (TID 012):
NUM - NAME - VPID
275 - QVCHD - 1040
279 - OWNHD - 1010
305 - IONEHD - 1020
404 - GALAHD - 1030
576 - PBTVHD - 1510

99ca TPN 15 (TID 014):
NUM - NAME - VPID
111 - IACHD - 1050
342 - FUSNHD - 1030
611 - SECHD - 1010
677 - LHNHD - 1020

99ca TPN 17 (TID 016):
505 - HBO2wHD - 1010

99ca TPN 19 (TID 018):
264 - BBCAHD - 1060
276 - NGCHD - 1010
285 - IDHD - 1050
286 - DESTHD - 1030


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Hey, great work using the SHEF commands. ...

Embarrassingly I hadn't even thought of doing that and was just lazily waiting for Gary, doctor j, or P Smith to weigh in with whatever changes there are in the SI tables on this issue. 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## coolman302003 (Jun 2, 2008)

MSNBC HD (356) has hockey on! The CSN Philly feed (Flyers vs Sabres NHL game). 

View attachment 26282


*EDIT:* Now showing a _We are experiencing temporary technical difficulties_... slate


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

They're taking down a few more HD Cinema channels:

DIY HD is now pointing to where 154 used to be
TCM HD is now pointing to where 162 used to be (currently Canucks for Center Ice)
FYI HD is now pointing to where 164 used to be (currently MASN2)
Ovation HD is now pointing to where 157 used to be (currently blacked out for me)
Nat Geo Wild HD is now pointing to where 150 used to be
Disney Junior HD is now pointing to where 161 used to be
TV Land HD is now pointing to where 151 used to be (currently FS Arizona Plus)
MTV2 HD is now pointing to where 155 used to be
Bloomberg HD is now pointing to where 149 used to be
MSNBC HD is now pointing to where 163 used to be (currently Flyers for Center Ice)
The Weather Channel HD is now pointing to where 153 use to be
NBC Universo HD is now pointing to one of the reserved part time feeds
Univision Deportes HD is now pointing to one of the reserved part time feeds
TWC Deportes HD is now pointing to where 141 used to be
HBO2 West HD is now pointing to where 166 used to be
Cinemax West HD is now pointing to where 156 used to be
Encore Action HD is now pointing to where 159 used to be
FS Florida HD is now pointing to where 139 used to be
Root Sports Southwest HD is now pointing to where 147 used to be


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

BBC America is now on 99ca TID 018


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Wonder if this will mean that new services will be postponed if D14 has to be used for this long term.


Don't know about long term ...

Even if D10 can't be salvaged, the upcoming D15 can assume the duties of 103cb.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

coolman302003 said:


> MSNBC HD (356) has hockey on!


Is there a reason for this that I am missing?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Some channels have been added to 99ca TPN 19, I'm updating the post soon


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

peds48 said:


> Is there a reason for this that I am missing?


See post 32


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Holy satellite failure Batman, the sky is falling!


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

MSNBC just went from the NHL game back to the technical difficulties screen.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Posted what's on TPN 19 to post 29, I won't be able to finish the updates for post 32 for another half hour

Also, maybe now people will stop complaining about them reserving so many HD Cinema channels now that they see what they can be used for in emergencies like this.


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## lacubs (Sep 12, 2010)

576 - PBTVHD back


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

peds48 said:


> Is there a reason for this that I am missing?


I'm guessing the wrong channel got mapped to where MSNBC is supposed to be. Same thing with some other channels like TV Land which has Fox Sports Arizona on.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

AngryManMLS said:


> I'm guessing the wrong channel got mapped to where MSNBC is supposed to be. Same thing with some other channels like TV Land which has Fox Sports Arizona on.


Read post 32 for the explanation. They're mapping some channels to where HD cinema channels currently are, some of them were already occupied by part time feeds like MASN2, Center Ice and Fox Sports Arizona Plus but they're taking them down.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

KyL416 said:


> Read post 32 for the explanation. They're mapping some channels to where HD cinema channels currently are, some of them were occupied by part time feeds like MASN2, Center Ice and Fox Sports Arizona Plus


Ah that makes sense. I missed that explanation in the post so my fault on that.

I'm guessing they are trying to remap MSNBC to another channel since just glancing at Twitter MSNBC right now is getting the most tweets about being missing. Rachel Maddow is very popular.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

This is nuts hope they can salvage the bird 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Does Directv have any more satellites ordered? Looks like they only had 4 CONUS transponders on D-14 configured and ready to go. Since it would appear that 103 (cb) if fried (hope I am wrong) I would think they would transfer the spots and decommission D-10. That is sad because it is only around 8 years old. I am sure they would have to get it out of the way if D-15 replaces it. 

I guess there is not an augment any more whether D-14 is in "Commercial Operation" or not.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

TV Land just went to "technical difficulties."


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Updated post 32

MSNBC HD and TV Land HD are still mapped to the same spots as originally posted, they just took down thoses game and replaced them with the slate.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

IDHD 285 is back for now.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

lwilli201 said:


> IDHD 285 is back for now.


It's back for good and now coming from DirecTV 14, see post 29. All of those channels are now back.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

coolman302003 said:


> MSNBC HD (356) has hockey on! The CSN Philly feed (Flyers vs Sabres NHL game).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


773-1 has the Sabres feed. Game might be going to a shoot out.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The only HD Cinema channels that are still active are 126, 137 and 138, most of them are now being used for the channels in post 26 and a few are being used for RSN alternates right now.

The standby slate was also located on 103cb, so all the currently offline part time channels show searching for signal.


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## brooklyn_tech (Aug 27, 2008)

KyL416 said:


> Read post 32 for the explanation. They're mapping some channels to where HD cinema channels currently are, some of them were already occupied by part time feeds like MASN2, Center Ice and Fox Sports Arizona Plus but they're taking them down.


I imagine this is why I'm being prompted to buy Prospectors for $5.99? They must have moved The Weather Channel to a former HD cinema channel and my receiver isn't yet aware?


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Yeah, those channels aren't back yet.

Last check only the HD Cinema Previews and Sportsmix HD have yet to be remapped somewhere, the rest of the channels are either live from D14 or remapped to a now former Cinema channel and will be returning soon.


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## underlord2 (Dec 1, 2006)

Is this the reason why I'm getting 771 signal loss on satellite in 1 or 2? I thought there was something wrong with my dish!


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

weather channel HD is show a buy screen for PPV and MTV2 Is showing not subscribed


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

underlord2 said:


> Is this the reason why I'm getting 771 signal loss on satellite in 1 or 2? I thought there was something wrong with my dish!


Most likely. Depending on which channels. The list is somewhere at the beginning of this thread


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Current status of HD Cinema channels:

104 - SLATE
125 - SLATE
126 - HD Cinema
127 - SLATE
129 - SLATE
130 - SLATE
132 - SLATE
133 - GONE
134 - GONE
135 - GONE
136 - SLATE
137 - HD Cinema
138 - HD Cinema
139 - FS Florida HD
141 - TWC Deportes HD
142 - Offline
143 - Offline
145 - SLATE
147 - Root Sports Southwest HD
148 - HD Cinema/RSN Alternate
149 - Bloomberg HD
150 - Nat Geo Wild HD
151 - HD Cinema/RSN Alternate
152 - HD Cinema/RSN Alternate
153 - The Weather Channel HD
154 - DIY HD
155 - MTV2 HD
156 - Cinemax West HD
157 - Ovation HD
158 - SLATE
159 - Encore Action HD
160 - HD Cinema/RSN Alternate
161 - Disney Junior HD
162 - TCM HD
163 - MSNBC HD
164 - FYI HD
165 - HD Cinema/RSN Alternate
166 - HBO2 West HD
167 - Replaced by the Slate
171 - SLATE

Offline = Already offline before 103cb failed
GONE = Removed from the lineup
SLATE = Located at 103cb and showing the detailed slate
HD Cinema = Currently showing programming
HD Cinema/RSN Alternate = Currently in use for an RSN Alternate


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Hopefully they light up more Transponders on D14 by this weekend, with Golf, Rugby, EPL, along with numerous NHL and NBA games coming up they're going to need more than 6 RSN alternates.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

It's a good thing D14 is up there. Otherwise DTV would have a real mess on their hands with trying to get enough space to keep all the channels we lost off those transponders tonight.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Talk about luck, huh! Too bad though, hope they figure it out.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

KyL416 said:


> Hopefully they light up more Transponders on D14 by this weekend, with Golf, Rugby, EPL, along with numerous NHL and NBA games coming up they're going to need more than 6 RSN alternates.


they can drop stuff like ICA HD, Sports mix HD, PPV perview HD if they need more RSN alt room.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

JoeTheDragon said:


> they can drop stuff like ICA HD, Sports mix HD, PPV perview HD if they need more RSN alt room.


IAC HD is the only one back since it happened to be on the same transponder as Fusion HD, Longhorn HD and SEC HD. (Good thing they prioritized the transponders with channels that didn't have SD counterparts)

Sportsmix and the HD Cinema Preview channel are still dead. The Sportsmix also doubled as the mix channel for special events. It was showing the UEFA mix this afternoon when 103cb died and was going to be the PGA Tour Mix this weekend.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I have a feeling that they have more options than we know abut, but they are using d14 because it's there and ready. Nice to see that it is too. Even if it's not fully fired up yet.

I have always wondered if d15 was meant to be a replacement of d10 as soon as it launched and make d10 a backup.... I think this may show that will be the case. Seems d10 was a dud in every way. As I recall it hasn't had any locals since d12 was fired up because of its issues either.

They have lucked out in the timing though, that's for sure... Such craziness!


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Yeah in addition to taking the Cinema channels, worst case scenario they could have started to pack 7 HD channels per transponder until D14 was ready.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

One small update, Encore Action HD is now replacing the HD Cinema channel on 159, so that brings it down to 5 RSN Alternates


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## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> One small update, Encore Action HD is now replacing the HD Cinema channel on 159, so that brings it down to 5 RSN Alternates


Thanks for all the work on the updates!


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## cmasia (Sep 18, 2007)

May I be a conspiracy theorist for a moment?

Am I the only one who thinks all of the events of the last 24 hours may not be a coincidence?

Perhaps a poorly planned handover of channels from D10 to D14?

Hard to believe an entire bank of transponders falls off the map precisely at a time a brand spanking new satellite comes to life.

I truly hope I'm wrong, but this does smell. A bit.

PS: Thanks to KyL for the continuous look under the hood.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

A few more transponders lit up on D14 and I'm seeing some channels mapped to them, will check back later.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

I can't check right now, but you should probably keep an eye on Nat Geo Wild, FYI HD, Disney Junior HD, Weather Channel HD and TWC Deportes HD. Possibly DIY HD, TV Land HD, MSNBC HD and FSN Florida HD.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

cmasia said:


> Hard to believe an entire bank of transponders falls off the map precisely at a time a brand spanking new satellite comes to life.


The timing is pretty crazy, but D10 appeared to have been operating with less than its full set of 14 CONUS transponders for a while. It had channels on 1 through 9 and 14, used 10 for 4K VOD and 13 for ad pushes. There doesn't appear to have been anything on 11 and 12. So basically only 10 of them were used for actual channels, and in general was not carrying the most watched/most popular channels. That may have been a deliberate decision - losing a channel like ESPN or HBO would have had a much larger impact and been noticed by a lot more customers.

Luckily D10 being a bit underutilized means it will be easy to replace since D14 adds 16 CONUS transponders. Unluckily it means that until D15 launches in May and becomes operational probably in August there isn't likely to be many new channels added. In hindsight, Directv may never have planned to add a whole lot of channels and instead wanted to migrate all the channels from D10 to D14 and retire D10 in an orderly manner, rather than on this emergency basis. Hopefully neither D14 nor D15 turn out to be a dud like D10!


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Found some more, will post them soon. This batch isn't a straight up copy of a 103cb transponder.

EDIT:
So far it's just one channel, the rest of the channels reverted back to a former HD Cinema slot

99ca TPN 17 (TID 016):
505 - HBO2wHD - 1010


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

HBO2 West HD is now live

A few more channels are now mappeed to D14, including the Sportsmix, DIY and TCM

EDIT: More channels are back, update soon

EDIT: DIY HD, TCM HD, FYI HD, Ovation HD, Nat Geo Wild HD, Disney Junior HD, TV Land HD, MTV2 HD, msnbc HD, The Weather Channel HD, HBO2 West HD, Cinemax West HD, Encore Action HD and FS Florida HD and Root Sports Southwest HD are back. No local weather on TWC yet.


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## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

I received an email around 4:30 am saying the following...

We are experiencing technical issues that have caused the temporary interruption of several national HD channels and DIRECTV CINEMA® in HD format. Our engineering team is hard at work to restore the channels as quickly as possible. Please accept our apologies for this inconvenience. 

During this time, you can still view most channels in SD and order DIRECTV CINEMA® in SD format. If you have previously hidden your SD channels, please click here for information on how to unhide these channels now. 

Additionally, you can always watch DIRECTV on your laptop, tablet, or phone*. To browse content now, click here.

We will let you know as soon as the HD channels resume normal broadcast. Again, we sincerely regret any inconvenience this issue may have caused and we continue to appreciate the opportunity to serve you. 

Thank you for being a DIRECTV customer.

Sincerely,
DIRECTV


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The current list:

99ca TPN 11 (TID 010):
NUM - NAME - VPID
204 - HLNHD - 1040
232 - COOKHD - 1030
238 - REELZHD - 1060
271 - H2HD - 1020
564 - IFCHD - 1010
694 - FSSDHD - 1050

99ca TPN 13 (TID 012):
NUM - NAME - VPID
275 - QVCHD - 1040
279 - OWNHD - 1010
305 - IONEHD - 1020
404 - GALAHD - 1030
576 - PBTVHD - 1510

99ca TPN 15 (TID 014):
NUM - NAME - VPID
111 - IACHD - 1050
342 - FUSNHD - 1030
611 - SECHD - 1010
677 - LHNHD - 1020

99ca TPN 17 (TID 016):
NUM - NAME - VPID
205 - SMXHD - 1070
274 - OVTVHD - 1030
505 - HBO2wHD - 1010
516 - MAXwHD - 1040
541 - EACTHD - 1020

99ca TPN 19 (TID 018):
NUM - NAME - VPID
264 - BBCAHD - 1060
276 - NGCHD - 1010
285 - IDHD - 1050
286 - DESTHD - 1030

99ca TPN 21 (TID 020):
NUM - NAME - VPID
230 - DIYHD - 1020
266 - FYIHD - 1060
283 - NGWHD - 1050
304 - TVLDHD - 1040
356 - mnbcHD - 1010
654 - FSFLHD - 1030

99ca TPN 23 (TID 022)
NUM - NAME - VPID
256 - TCMHD - 1050
289 - DSJRHD - 1020
333 - MTV2HD - 1040
362 - WEAHD - 1010
674 - RTSWHD - 1030


The following channels are now pointing to information the Slate instead of a HD cinema channel:
Bloomberg HD
NBC Universo HD
Univision Deportes HD
TWC Deportes HD

The offline channels are still pointed to the feed on 103cb

Cinema 3D has been moved to 103ca TID 018 VPID 1700

Most of the alternates should be available for this very busy weekend in sports.


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

I don't grasp about 99.99999 percent of what you rocket scientists say here, so I'm just wondering this - does the failure of the D10 satellite mean that D14 will now NOT be used for its intended purpose? Have to say, I was looking forward to some potential increased HD offerings with this new satellite and will be a bit disappointed if it's now just going to take over the duties of the failed D10.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

When it's fully lit up D14 will have more transponders than they lost with D10. There probably won't be a flood of new HD, but they'll have room to put more channels up in the short term until D15 launches later this month.

EDIT: The Sportsmix is back, no interactive features yet, but you can use the green button or the audio/video drop down on the info bar to switch audio.


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

Like many folks who are watching 4K, I was hoping D* would be the first to start streaming some regular programming directly uprezzed to 4K - or better, created in 4K. I won't launch into detailed preferences; but, as a D* subscriber for 20 years, I really want them to be the first with broad schedule.

Figured that would come via D14.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

Thank you @KyL416 for the updates.

Perhaps Engineer Rob Lowe can help fix it!


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## tomspeer46 (Nov 17, 2011)

As of 8:25 Am EST, I see 7 live transponders on 99ca (D14), the same ones KyL416 reported in post #75.


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## FHSPSU67 (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks to fellow Pennsylvanian KyL416 for keeping us all updated. Hope you're catching up on some sleep today


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## tnnolman (Aug 9, 2009)

Only 4 channel not back on yet they are: 353 Bloomberg HD/410 NBC Universo/455 Univision Deportes and 458 TWC Sportsnet Deportes. All 4 of the channel still have the NO NEED TO CALL US Slide.


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## Skylooker (Apr 2, 2006)

Can someone explain to me why it's necessary to simulcast HD and SD? Can't the STB just downconvert the HD version to a SD monitor? Seems like a huge waste of sat capacity, but I guess they would have already done it, if it were possible.


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## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

Skylooker said:


> Can someone explain to me why it's necessary to simulcast HD and SD? Can't the STB just downconvert the HD version to a SD monitor? Seems like a huge waste of sat capacity, but I guess they would have already done it, if it were poThey


All the old receivers in circulation prevent it.


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## Skylooker (Apr 2, 2006)

tsduke said:


> All the old receivers in circulation prevent it.


I figured so. That's too bad. What a waste of resources.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

I'm at work so can't check this out myself, but are the receivers sent some sort of remapping instructions so that if you tune to the old channel number it still comes in? Or does my wife have to redo her scheduled recordings?


----------



## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

sbl said:


> I'm at work so can't check this out myself, but are the receivers sent some sort of remapping instructions so that if you tune to the old channel number it still comes in? Or does my wife have to redo her scheduled recordings?


It should remap transparently to the user. The channel numbers will remain the same. Only the internal "pointers" that tell the receiver what frequencies to tune to are changing.


----------



## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Skylooker said:


> I figured so. That's too bad. What a waste of resources.


The two edged sword of having a large user base. I am sure someone has some sort of plan in place. My oldest receiver is my HR20 from 2007 and still plugging along with no real issues.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

sangs said:


> I don't grasp about 99.99999 percent of what you rocket scientists say here, so I'm just wondering this - does the failure of the D10 satellite mean that D14 will now NOT be used for its intended purpose? Have to say, I was looking forward to some potential increased HD offerings with this new satellite and will be a bit disappointed if it's now just going to take over the duties of the failed D10.


Part of D14's purpose has always been to allow for channels to transition off DIRECTV10. That satellite had problems even before it went operational and it's always been the plan to allow it to retire. As stated, DIRECTV14 has more capacity than DIRECTV10 has (had?) and there's no reason to think this will slow DIRECTV's plans.


----------



## ETS121 (Feb 1, 2015)

For ten minutes Destination America HD ch 286 was frozen on this image, which was pretty funny. Does anyone think Destination America will freeze again, should I DVR a a show I want to watch in SD just in case?


----------



## chicagojim (Sep 13, 2006)

On the lighter side -

As all this was going on last night, I received a call from DTV. I thought, "Wow! Now THIS is some customer service! Are they seriously calling me to let me know of the outage???"

After all, I had _never_ received a call in over 14 years of being a subscriber.

Nope - sales call. Thought it was too good to be true! !rolling


----------



## BearsFan (Apr 22, 2002)

Wow--looks like we picked the right night (Thursday evening) to watch content on the Apple TV. Had no idea any of this was happening until I saw the "Sorry about missing HD channels" email from DirecTV this morning.

While I had issues in recent weeks with several channels (H2 HD, IFC HD, Cooking HD) giving me the 771 error, things seemed to fix themselves in the last week or so…then this happened, and I see IFC HD on the list (though it's probably back now, from what I've read). 

I have to wonder if the issues I was having were the beginning signs of something going wrong like it did this past week.


----------



## ETS121 (Feb 1, 2015)

If you have a slimline 3 dish you don't get NBC Universo sd or TWC Deportes sd correct? We only get them in HD which are both currently down.


----------



## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

Hmmm....guess they didn't send the email to everyone? I didn't receive anything.


----------



## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

tsduke said:


> Hmmm....guess they didn't send the email to everyone? I didn't receive anything.


I received a email from DIRECTV at 04:11 this morning informing me of the "Technical Issues".


----------



## APB101 (Sep 1, 2010)

tsduke said:


> Hmmm....guess they didn't send the email to everyone? I didn't receive anything.


I didn't get an e-mail; and I have access to DirecTV's website.

_A note for some consumers:_ With however much of the programming having now returned, it may be necessary to do a reset of one's receiver. (I had to do so with one of my DVRs.)


----------



## stevenme (Nov 29, 2011)

KyL416 said:


> The current list:
> 
> 99ca TPN 11 (TID 010):
> NUM - NAME - VPID
> ...


When I look in the satellite setup menu I don't see 99ca, only 99c which I'm guessing is D11. Does DTV need to reprogram the receivers to show D14 in the setup menu?

Steve


----------



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> I have always wondered if d15 was meant to be a replacement of d10 as soon as it launched and make d10 a backup.... I think this may show that will be the case. Seems d10 was a dud in every way. As I recall it hasn't had any locals since d12 was fired up because of its issues either.


Putting a satellite with Ku capacity at a Ka slot doesn't seem like a long-term solution when all of the oldest satellites are Ku. Then again, having a satellite that covers three bands and no spot beams is spreading things awfully thin.


----------



## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

stevenme said:


> When I look in the satellite setup menu I don't see 99ca, only 99c which I'm guessing is D11. Does DTV need to reprogram the receivers to show D14 in the setup menu?
> 
> Steve


For the receiver to show 99ca and 99cb an update is needed. Until that update happens the receiver is just combining the two on the 99c screen


----------



## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

stevenme said:


> When I look in the satellite setup menu I don't see 99ca, only 99c which I'm guessing is D11. Does DTV need to reprogram the receivers to show D14 in the setup menu?
> 
> Steve


It is my understanding that the receiver will find the channels, even though you cannot see a signal strength screen for 99ca and 99cb. There is no need to seen the signal strength screen to be able to receive any of the channels from D14.


----------



## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

Not a large digression (I hope); but, checking for 353HD I noticed the resolution on the splash slate is 1080p while all the other HD feeds are 720p or 1080i.


Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

harsh said:


> Putting a satellite with Ku capacity at a Ka slot doesn't seem like a long-term solution when all of the oldest satellites are Ku. Then again, having a satellite that covers three bands and no spot beams is spreading things awfully thin.


DirecTV-15 has 24 Ka transponders, 14 Ka-hi plus 10 Ka-lo which were designed to replace D10. Yes. it also has Ku transponders, but it also has RDBS transponders. It is a "Swiss army knife" satellite.


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Yes, better to have the capability and not need it than to wish it were there later.



> DirecTV-15 has 24 Ka transponders, 14 Ka-hi plus 10 Ka-lo which were designed to replace D10. Yes. it also has Ku transponders, but it also has RDBS transponders. It is a "Swiss army knife" satellite.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Ed Campbell said:


> Not a large digression (I hope); but, checking for 353HD I noticed the resolution on the splash slate is 1080p while all the other HD feeds are 720p or 1080i.


That's because they used the 1080p HD Cinema channel on 167 to create the slate


----------



## mattgwyther (May 22, 2007)

So do we know if D-10 has failed? Is DirecTV attempting to salvage it still, or are they moving forward with their pre-existing replacement plan (D14 & D15)?

Seems odd that all of this is happening right about the time D14 comes online. Is it just good luck or was this part of the plan?


----------



## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

I doubt such a plan would have included a major outage.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

cmasia said:


> May I be a conspiracy theorist for a moment?
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks all of the events of the last 24 hours may not be a coincidence?
> 
> ...


Depends. You do realize d10 killed it's spots years ago because they where bad and had a major system fail several years ago and has been running on a backup system for a long time now. It was basically a lemon from the start that they have squeezed amazingly well for seven plus years now. It was destined to die by the end of this year anyway I believe.


----------



## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Diana C said:


> DirecTV-15 has 24 Ka transponders, 14 Ka-hi plus 10 Ka-lo which were designed to replace D10. Yes. it also has Ku transponders, but it also has RDBS transponders. It is a "Swiss army knife" satellite.


No actually D15 has 38 Ka xpndrs, 24 Ka-hi and 14 Ka-lo.

However, only up to a maximum of 24 xpndrs in any combination of the two sets can be active at any one time.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


----------



## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

One thing I wonder about (assuming D10 is dead) is that is this a significant enough event that under accounting or stock exchange rules will DirecTV have to make a public statement about it? For 99.99% of customers this was a non event, there were technical difficulties and a channel went off the air for a few hours. It is now back so all is good. Only satellite geeks like on this forum even know how big a deal it really was.


----------



## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

The Morning-After report:

In a few minutes I will post an updated TPN Map in the TPN Map Thread (from Doctor J as of 0800 [PST] this morning). We have a new landscape today. In the CONUS tab, I have highlighted in ugly yellow, the 40 HD channels now being provided by D14. In the LIL tab there are some 33 instances of LIL virtual channels being provided by D14. There certainly will be many more changes to come.

We now know for certain that D10 was _not _a contributor, along with D12, in poviding any of the 103S channels.

I am most impressed that in a period of perhaps 5 hours yesterday afternoon, Engineering could fire up 7 D14 tpns and manage this migration of 40 HD channels. These people deserve a tremendous amount of credit.

Another huge accolade is due: the work, time, expertise and insight that KyL416 provided in this thread providing a play-by-play account, --in real-time-- as yesterday's catastrophe was unfolding was magnificent. KyL416 - you were great. Thanks.


----------



## Chilcoot (Jun 22, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> DIRECTV14 has more capacity than DIRECTV10 has (had?) and there's no reason to think this will slow DIRECTV's plans.


I can't agree with this.

A satellite company that sees one of its precious few satellites fail will be negatively impacted. It's sounding like DTV is being forced to shift some of D14's capacity to functions previously handled by D10. Which constrains DTV's ability to use D14 for new purposes.

People can disagree about _how much_ the loss of D10 will slow DTV's plans. But I don't think there can be any doubt that those plans _will be_ slowed.


----------



## Renard (Jun 21, 2007)

*I'm seeing some signals back on 103Cb. It's not dead. Yeah*
*As of right now all tps are back online.*


----------



## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Chilcoot said:


> I can't agree with this.
> 
> A satellite company that sees one of its precious few satellites fail will be negatively impacted. It's sounding like DTV is being forced to shift some of D14's capacity to functions previously handled by D10. Which constrains DTV's ability to use D14 for new purposes.
> 
> People can disagree about _how much_ the loss of D10 will slow DTV's plans. But I don't think there can be any doubt that those plans _will be_ slowed.


I guess that unless you know for sure what those plans were, it's hard to say if they'll be slowed.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

harsh said:


> Putting a satellite with Ku capacity at a Ka slot doesn't seem like a long-term solution when all of the oldest satellites are Ku. Then again, having a satellite that covers three bands and no spot beams is spreading things awfully thin.


Seriously? Forgot that it also does bss it and where they can broadcast bss from? It's versatile and can go anywhere to fill any need. It will likely never run more than two sets of freq and it could run two at 99 or 103. Why wouldn't they put it there? And explain how that spreads things thin? How? How on earth is that true in any way shape or form?

I expect a new bird for 101 at some point as well.


----------



## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The standby logo feed (0x1700) is back up and running from 103cb, I don't have the time to check everything else channel by channel again right now, maybe Gary or doctorj can do another grab later tonight to see if anything else is back on D10.


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## chelsea (May 1, 2003)

longrider said:


> For the receiver to show 99ca and 99cb an update is needed. Until that update happens the receiver is just combining the two on the 99c screen


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Chilcoot said:


> I can't agree with this.
> 
> A satellite company that sees one of its precious few satellites fail will be negatively impacted. It's sounding like DTV is being forced to shift some of D14's capacity to functions previously handled by D10. Which constrains DTV's ability to use D14 for new purposes.
> 
> People can disagree about _how much_ the loss of D10 will slow DTV's plans. But I don't think there can be any doubt that those plans _will be_ slowed.


I have never seen directv announce any plans that could be slowed by d10 dieing today. Have you?

I always thought d15 was its replacement anyway since we have know for many years it's broken and about dead. I think physically it is but bandwidth wise d14 may have been its replacement all along.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

3 new HD channels are testing on D14


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## Renard (Jun 21, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> 3 new HD channels are testing on D14


Hey can you confirm what I'm seeing on my screen,but it appears that all tps on 103cb are back and working.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Renard said:


> Hey can you confirm what I'm seeing on my screen,but it appears that all tps on 103cb are back and working.


The only thing I can currently see from 103cb is the standby slate used by part time channels that are offline. I can't see what else is up until they start moving things. I don't have time to do so right now, hopefully Gary or Doctor J can do another report.

I don't know how stable it is, so hopefully they limit 103cb to just VOD pushes and HD Cinema channels until D15 is ready later this year.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

She's back up.


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## Renard (Jun 21, 2007)

I WANT MORE said:


> She's back up.


Thanks for the confirmation


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Well that's good news, though unless/until Directv knows for certain what happened and feels confident it won't happen again until D15 is in place, they probably won't use D10 for anything important. Hopefully if they start putting stuff on it again it'll be mostly Cinema channels so that if it goes out again, nothing of importance will be lost


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## chelsea (May 1, 2003)

My Costco DTV display, has the new Software update from January, which see's 99ca & the 4K icon in Search & Browse in the bottom right hand corner. Costco's display is hooked to a Samsung non 4K. Rep said 4K, involves a technician visit to enable.
Samsung has an exclusive contract with Directv for 4K, so no other brand will get 4K, till Samsung's deal ends. 
My software still is stuck on the December update. Been looking for it since January.


----------



## rahlquist (Jul 24, 2007)

Gary Toma said:


> I am most impressed that in a period of perhaps 5 hours yesterday afternoon, Engineering could fire up 7 D14 tpns and manage this migration of 40 HD channels. These people deserve a tremendous amount of credit.
> 
> Another huge accolade is due: the work, time, expertise and insight that KyL416 provided in this ithread --in real-time-- as yesterday's catastrophe was unfolding was magnificent. KyL416 - that sound you hear is applause. Thanks.


I couldn't agree more. D* did an awesome job of handling it, and KyL416 did an awesome job of calling the play by play.


----------



## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

Yes, 103CB is now back showing normal signal strength levels instead of all zeros.


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

Renard said:


> *I'm seeing some signals back on 103Cb. It's not dead. Yeah*
> *As of right now all tps are back online.*


Transponders 1-14 on 103cb appear to be full strength. Did we just witness a D10 Ctrl-Alt-Delete?


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## twaller (Dec 17, 2005)

KyL416 said:


> 3 new HD channels are testing on D14


can you tell us which ones?

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

twaller said:


> can you tell us which ones?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


260 We TV HD
346 BBC World News HD
557 Sundance TV HD


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

260 We TV HD
346 BBC World News HD
557 Sundance TV HD

It's a result of the recent renewal with AMC Networks (Good thing they got control of BBC America prior to the deal being done). NASA TV is moving from 346 to channel 352 on 2/27 so they probably won't launch until March unless they do it the same day.

1 is from D11, 2 are from D14, it explains why we lost 3 HD Cinema channels yesterday. More in the HD Anticipation thread


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> 260 We TV HD
> 346 BBC World News HD
> 557 Sundance TV HD


To stay current with what is in testing, and on which satellites, check the TPN Map Excel -- at the top of the Hybrid tab, categories *Test CONUS and *Test LIL.

There are some old zombie entries in these categories, but this is where you will find the coming new channels on their way to becoming alive.


----------



## richall01 (Sep 30, 2007)

twaller said:


> can you tell us which ones?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


New are upgrade of some the SD channels?


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

rahlquist said:


> I couldn't agree more. D* did an awesome job of handling it, and KyL416 did an awesome job of calling the play by play.


+1

And BBCWorld News coming? Been on the wish list for years.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

The final list of what's on D14 including the 2 channels in test from D14. (WeTV HD is on D11)

99ca TPN 11 (TID 010):
NUM - NAME - VPID
204 - HLNHD - 1040
232 - COOKHD - 1030
238 - REELZHD - 1060
271 - H2HD - 1020
564 - IFCHD - 1010
694 - FSSDHD - 1050

99ca TPN 13 (TID 012):
NUM - NAME - VPID
275 - QVCHD - 1040
279 - OWNHD - 1010
305 - IONEHD - 1020
404 - GALAHD - 1030
576 - PBTVHD - 1510

99ca TPN 15 (TID 014):
NUM - NAME - VPID
111 - IACHD - 1050
342 - FUSNHD - 1030
557 - *SUNDHD - 1040
611 - SECHD - 1010
677 - LHNHD - 1020

99ca TPN 17 (TID 016):
NUM - NAME - VPID
205 - SMXHD - 1070
274 - OVTVHD - 1030
505 - HBO2wHD - 1010
516 - MAXwHD - 1040
541 - EACTHD - 1020

99ca TPN 19 (TID 018):
NUM - NAME - VPID
264 - BBCAHD - 1060
276 - NGCHD - 1010
285 - IDHD - 1050
286 - DESTHD - 1030
346 - *BBCWNH - 1020

99ca TPN 21 (TID 020):
NUM - NAME - VPID
230 - DIYHD - 1020
266 - FYIHD - 1060
283 - NGWHD - 1050
304 - TVLDHD - 1040
356 - mnbcHD - 1010
654 - FSFLHD - 1030

99ca TPN 23 (TID 022)
NUM - NAME - VPID
256 - TCMHD - 1050
289 - DSJRHD - 1020
333 - MTV2HD - 1040
362 - WEAHD - 1010
674 - RTSWHD - 1030

The info slate has been taken down on the remaining channels, but they're still pointing to the same feed that used to be channel 167 (D11 TID 134 VPID 1020)


----------



## ETS121 (Feb 1, 2015)

NBC Universo HD 410, Univision Deportes HD 455, & TWC Deportes HD 458 are all still down with a message on screen. But with TWC Deportes HD it's weird as you'll able to use the restart feature and start the program over from the beginning and watch the show that should be on from the beginning. Weird.

Any idea if NBC Universo SD & TWC Deportes SD will show up for those who have a slimline 3 & if the HD channels will return?


----------



## richall01 (Sep 30, 2007)

Looks like some of the Directv Cinema channels are about to fire up 130-140 range.


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I wonder if they will just put all the cinema Hi Definition channels and pushed content and 4k stuff on d10. Guess we will see soon


I'd love to know what happened. Maybe someday.


----------



## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

Wonder why Bloomberg HD, channel 353, was never restored?


----------



## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

I stiill have a bunch of channels out.

This same thing happened a couple of months ago - lasted a day I think


----------



## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

gpg said:


> Wonder why Bloomberg HD, channel 353, was never restored?


They would have had to fire up another transponder on D14 to bring it, Univision Deportes, NBC Universo and TWC Deportes back. It will probably return when they start readding channels on D10. Hopefully they do some movement and give them some of the HD cinema slots on D11 or D12 instead.

The following D10 channels have yet to return:
125 HD Cinema Previews (Offline)
127 HD Cinema (Offline)
129 HD Cinema (Offline)
130 HD Cinema (Offline)
136 HD Cinema (Offline)
145 HD Cinema (Offline)
158 HD Cinema (Offline)
171 HD Cinema (Offline)
353 Bloomberg HD (Slate)
410 NBC Universo HD (Slate)
455 Univision Deportes HD (Slate)
458 TWC Deportes HD (Slate)
9510 103B Odd Test Channel (Offline)
9511 103B Even Test Channel (Offline)


----------



## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

Thanks for the explanation KyL416. Guess that makes Bloomberg the least important English-language channel in Directv's estimation. I wonder if it's the lowest ratest HD channel?


----------



## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

gpg said:


> Thanks for the explanation KyL416. Guess that makes Bloomberg the least important English-language channel in Directv's estimation. I wonder if it's the lowest ratest HD channel?


my dad is the only one watching it  he like the Bloomberg channel


----------



## Sea bass (Jun 10, 2005)

Gary Toma said:


> I am most impressed that in a period of perhaps 5 hours yesterday afternoon, Engineering could fire up 7 D14 tpns and manage this migration of 40 HD channels. These people deserve a tremendous amount of credit.
> 
> Another huge accolade is due: the work, time, expertise and insight that KyL416 provided in this ithread --in real-time-- as yesterday's catastrophe was unfolding was magnificent. KyL416 - that sound you hear is applause. Thanks.


----------



## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Question, does D-10 and D-14 use the same uplink center?


----------



## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> ..... I'd love to know what happened. Maybe someday.


Your answer is in Post #16 of this thread, at 2:30 yesterday afternoon. KyL416 was just beginning his play-by-play call about that time.


----------



## Rob (Apr 23, 2002)

Channel 136 Free movie?


----------



## underlord2 (Dec 1, 2006)

Rob said:


> Channel 136 Free movie?


Dumb and Dumber To.. Cool, looks like I'm watching a movie.


----------



## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Yeah the remaining channels have returned, they're all coming from 103cb. Maybe Gary or Doctor J can do another grab to see if there are any other surprises in test.


----------



## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Gary Toma said:


> Your answer is in Post #16 of this thread, at 2:30 yesterday afternoon. KyL416 was just beginning his play-by-play call about that time.


Not a verifiable source IMO. Even if true, how do they correct a major power failure on a satellite that has already had major problems. I know that they have backup systems, but would it take this long to get them up and running and after all past problems are there any backup systems left. Still questions that we may never know the answers to.


----------



## Nyrcup94 (Oct 2, 2014)

I am getting normal signals on 103 cb again. Maybe it wasn't a power failure but loss of control from the spacecraft itself. Unless D10 has a backup bus for power it has returned, when are they going to do now switch these channels back or not?


----------



## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Nyrcup94 said:


> I am getting normal signals on 103 cb again. Maybe it wasn't a power failure but loss of control from the spacecraft itself. Unless D10 has a backup bus for power it has returned, when are they going to do now switch these channels back or not?


I'm not intimately familiar with the design of D10, but most satellites have multiple power busses with transponders able to be connected to any 2 of them. That way you would need two busses to fail before you lost transponders. But you are right, it could have been an attitude control problem. It could even have been a debris hit on a feedhorn. These satellites are HIGHLY reconfigurable from the ground (you can't really make service calls 26,000 miles up) and lots of things can be worked around.


----------



## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Some channels that were on D14 have moved back to D10. TPN 23 on D14 is back to 0


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

KyL416 said:


> Some channels that were on D14 have moved back to D10


They must be fairly confident it's back for a least a while then.


----------



## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

KyL416 said:


> Yeah the remaining channels have returned, they're all coming from 103cb. Maybe Gary or Doctor J can do another grab to see if there are any other surprises in test.


Running one now. Will get to Gary to process.
By the way great work!!

Doctor j


----------



## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Just received this email from DIRECTV:



> We are pleased to confirm an earlier technical issue affecting our HD channels has been resolved. You can now resume watching your favorite HD programming and DIRECTV CINEMA® in HD format.
> 
> Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this issue may have caused.
> 
> ...


----------



## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

Wonder how they decide who is worthy of being emailed? I've not received anything.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Your current e-mail is on file? Have you checked that via logging into your DIRECTV® account online? 

I haven't received the revived notice, but I imagine they stagger it East Coast to West, to get to those prime time people first. It takes a bit for 20MM or so e-mails to flow.


----------



## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

You might also want to check your spam/junk folder. When DIRECTV first sent me emails to my gmail account, it went straight to my spam folder on my gmail page. Never made it to my home computer. I had to go online and mark it as 'not spam'. 

And of course, as Laxguy suggested, what have you selected on your DIRECTV account profile (My Account/My Settings)?


----------



## CincySaint (Jan 16, 2008)

trh said:


> Just received this email from DIRECTV:


Got the email as well. Will be interesting to see if D10 is back online...


----------



## tsduke (Mar 20, 2007)

Yes. My email is on file. I get all their marketing crap and they never missing emailing my bill.

Not in spam either.


----------



## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

tsduke said:


> Wonder how they decide who is worthy of being emailed? I've not received anything.


Check your DIRECTV® email preferences.


----------



## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

I got the email at 915 EST.


----------



## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Yep, I got the failure notice email at 4:36 AM and the resolution email at 8:18 PM (EST)


----------



## betterdan (May 23, 2007)

I got the resolution email also around 2013 (8:13 PM for those non military time reading folks)


----------



## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

Just poked a fresh TPN Map up in Post #1 of the TPN Map thread. This is data as of 1800 PST tonight.

I would expect that this will be stable data through the weekend. 

In this last data, D14/99CA is providing 33 HD CONUS channels and is still providing the 33 iterations of Virtual ION for LIL service. The D10/103CB is now providing 23 HD CONUS channels. The D14 *Test channels still show in *Test.


----------



## Hdhead (Jul 30, 2007)

Weather channel breaking up for about a minute then out. Back on now again. Happened about 7:05am est


----------



## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

Okay, now that things have settled down a bit (and a fair amount of programming has been moved BACK to D10), it's time to come up with some reasonable (or unreasonable) reasons (lacking any press release from DirecTV, and since we're into the weekend, likely not to have any until some time into next week if ever) why this all occured.

1. They were in the process of moving a transponder or two of programming off D10 to D14, and when they commanded D10 to shut down transponder x it 'decided' to shut the entire satellite transponder buss down. Get Boeing on the phone ASAP.

2. They were doing (1) above, but 'fumble fingers' at the controls actually DID command D10 to shut down.

All the commentary as to how D10 is a 'flacky' satellite may or may not have complete basis in fact, if it continues to operate fine with x transponders (and it has many years of 'life' left) then it will be used. The fact they pretty rapidly started moving programming they had, hours previously, to D14 BACK to D10, pretty much proves that they 'trust' the satellite and that either some 'fumble fingers' or 'bad command interpreter' was at fault, and not a serious failure of the satellite.

If, as some as posited, that D10 has some (known) internal problems, then they would (should) have had some 'mass transistion' plan already written up and ready to be deployed at a single keystroke (or two), but this was obviously not the case as it took several hours to (apparently manually) do all the switching around. 

As other have pointed out, I'm sure the 'command team' had a few hours of 'fun' doing all this switching things around and then back again throughout Friday. It will probably take a few weeks before an 'official' after action report is written and (perhaps) released. But I'm not holding my breath as to finding out exactly what happend (public corporations being what they are).


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## Hdhead (Jul 30, 2007)

Have to believe this whole incident was a fat finger type or mistaken command sequence and Directv fully understands what happened. If it truly is a technical/ hardware issue with the satillite they would never have moved channels back to it as quickly as they did without extensive testing.IMHO.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

1948GG said:


> Okay, now that things have settled down a bit (and a fair amount of programming has been moved BACK to D10), it's time to come up with some reasonable (or unreasonable) reasons (lacking any press release from DirecTV, and since we're into the weekend, likely not to have any until some time into next week if ever) why this all occured.
> 
> 1. They were in the process of moving a transponder or two of programming off D10 to D14, and when they commanded D10 to shut down transponder x it 'decided' to shut the entire satellite transponder buss down. Get Boeing on the phone ASAP.
> 
> ...


I just kind of doubt it was anything to do with firing up d14 because it didn't appear that they where / are finished prepping and testing it the way they want to so I don't see them as having been in the process of moving content to it. Not yet. They just happened to have enough ready and said screw it and fired up a couple more tps for yesterday. But now why move it back off since it's already there? Probably only leaving content on tps they had fully tested and felt where ready.

Remember they also do these switches at 3am or so usually. Not in the middle of the day. Another reason I don't think it had anything to do with d14.


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

Could it have been a problem on the ground, like at an uplink facility? I really don't have a clue. I'm just throwing out the possibility.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

peds48 said:


> Check your DIRECTV® email preferences.


I don't think that it's necessarily an email preference setting thing. I got the resolution email. But I didn't get the original "we have a problem" email. The original one didn't go to my spam folder either.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

1948GG said:


> Okay, now that things have settled down a bit (and a fair amount of programming has been moved BACK to D10), it's time to come up with some reasonable (or unreasonable) reasons (lacking any press release from DirecTV, and since we're into the weekend, likely not to have any until some time into next week if ever) why this all occured.
> 1. They were in the process of moving a transponder or two of programming off D10 to D14, and when they commanded D10 to shut down transponder x it 'decided' to shut the entire satellite transponder buss down. Get Boeing on the phone ASAP.
> 2. They were doing (1) above, but 'fumble fingers' at the controls actually DID command D10 to shut down.
> All the commentary as to how D10 is a 'flacky' satellite may or may not have complete basis in fact, if it continues to operate fine with x transponders (and it has many years of 'life' left) then it will be used. The fact they pretty rapidly started moving programming they had, hours previously, to D14 BACK to D10, pretty much proves that they 'trust' the satellite and that either some 'fumble fingers' or 'bad command interpreter' was at fault, and not a serious failure of the satellite.
> ...


DirecTV-10 definitely has had problems from the very beginning. When they first fired it up there was an issue with the spot beams that has been documented and is generally known. IIRC, they even drifted the satellite out of position to do some amelioration of the problem before moving it back and putting it into service. Does that mean that this failure was related? Unless an announcement is forthcoming from DirecTV I doubt we will ever know for sure. It COULD be anything from operator error to a satellite system failure. As I have said many times before, when you are putting a complex piece of electronics 26,000 above the planet you build in a lot of redundancies. The fact that they actually moved everything over to D14 (which was not finished being prepped for service) indicates that it was not as simple as operator error. If somebody just hit the wrong button, they could have been back up without moving channels. It is also REALLY hard to turn off all transponders at once.

IMHO, the most likely scenario was that there was an internal system anomaly on the satellite, most likely power related or in the T&C equipment. My personal best guess would be a flywheel got stuck. That would cause the satellite to rotate around the axis of the failed flywheel, turning all of the antennas in the wrong direction. To resolve such a problem you have to first re-establish control of the satellite (tricky to do when the satellite is not stable) and try to correct the problem. They wouldn't know when they started if it would be successful or if it would take an hour or a week. So they did an emergency transfer of programming. There are a lot things that are on the list of recovery steps that requires the satellite to not be transmitting as they are executed. As it turns out, they seem to have fixed the problem in about a day and a half.

If it had been operator error, or pretty much any problem that didn't involve a T&C disruption, I think they would not have taken the drastic step of using D14 before it was fully prepped.

About the only problem that would have fit events that doesn't involve a satellite based failure, would have been a major problem at the uplink (like a circuit fire), which I think we would have heard about by now.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Not to mention they would likely have used a backup uplink center rather than moving to a different sat I'd think.


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## APB101 (Sep 1, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> No actually D15 has 38 Ka xpndrs, 24 Ka-hi and 14 Ka-lo.
> 
> However, only up to a maximum of 24 xpndrs in any combination of the two sets can be active at any one time.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


What does this mean for capacity in adding HD channels?


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

Have to thank those who took the time to report & explain what was going on. Big props to them!


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

1948GG said:


> All the commentary as to how D10 is a 'flacky' satellite may or may not have complete basis in fact, if it continues to operate fine with x transponders (and it has many years of 'life' left) then it will be used. The fact they pretty rapidly started moving programming they had, hours previously, to D14 BACK to D10, pretty much proves that they 'trust' the satellite and that either some 'fumble fingers' or 'bad command interpreter' was at fault, and not a serious failure of the satellite.
> 
> If, as some as posited, that D10 has some (known) internal problems, then they would (should) have had some 'mass transistion' plan already written up and ready to be deployed at a single keystroke (or two), but this was obviously not the case as it took several hours to (apparently manually) do all the switching around.


D10 has a documented history of (publicly known, there may be other) issues:

1) spot beam problems that required "amelioration" after launch. We know from Thursday's events that it was no longer providing ANY spot beams
2) primary propulsion failed and is on its backup propulsion. Due to that, in 2011 Directv said it would accelerate the launch of D14 and D15.
3) Thursday's failure. The other site said it was a power failure that caused a loss of attitude control - same scenario as Diana's best guess.

D15 has the capability to do the following:

1) supply 18 RDBS transponders for 4K (assuming the battle with the Canadian satellite company is resolved)
2) replace 103ca currently delivered by D12
3) replace 103cb currently delivered by D10

Given D10's spotty history and D15's ability to take over for all its current duties, it is likely D10 will retire from active service once D15 is fully operational six months (or so) from now. It would then presumably become an in-orbit spare.

As for the "mass transition" plan, who knows whether automation on that level is possible for them. If it is, it would only be possible after D14 was fully operational, which it wasn't on Thursday. Also, how do you test it, without disrupting viewing as channels are moved and moved back?

They do appear to have prepared to the extent that D10 was not delivering their most viewed channels people would notice the loss of. I'm sure a lot of customers got the email about issues and then the follow up that the issues were resolved and wondered what it was about since they'd never noticed anything.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

APB101 said:


> What does this mean for capacity in adding HD channels?


Men's they will have lots of room for more Hi Definition. . And a good spare to cover many tps in case it's needed at some point.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

APB101 said:


> What does this mean for capacity in adding HD channels?


D15 does not add any new bandwidth for HD channels. D14 is the one that will add capacity for more HD channels, though depending on how likely they feel the problems with D10 are to recur they might hold off on a lot of that until D15 takes over for D10. I'm sure most would agree it is worse to have additional HD channels but be forced to pull them due to problems than to wait a bit longer for them to be added but be confident they will stay


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Well if those channels Kyle posted earlier are still on D14... D14 is working nicely. BBCA HD is crystal clear like it should be. 95's and 96's on the signals on D14 active TP's too. Nice to see this launch is successful.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> D15 does not add any new bandwidth for HD channels. D14 is the one that will add capacity for more HD channels, though depending on how likely they feel the problems with D10 are to recur they might hold off on a lot of that until D15 takes over for D10. I'm sure most would agree it is worse to have additional HD channels but be forced to pull them due to problems than to wait a bit longer for them to be added but be confident they will stay


That is unless DIRECTV feels in the future that local spotbeams on the Ka-hi band at 103W (right now provided by SW1) will not be necessary. And allow D15's CONUS xpndrs 1-8 to operate there.

This is about the only way D15 can actually increase system capacity for the Ka band.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

cypherx said:


> Well if those channels Kyle posted earlier are still on D14... D14 is working nicely. BBCA HD is crystal clear like it should be. 95's and 96's on the signals on D14 active TP's too. Nice to see this launch is successful.


Though likely nothing more than a different prepping method for D14, I'm still keeping an eye on the peculiar absence of all even CONUS xpndrs from it before I'd declare the satellite's performance a complete success yet.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

As for the "mass transition" plan, who knows whether automation on that level is possible for them. If it is, it would only be possible after D14 was fully operational, which it wasn't on Thursday. Also, how do you test it, without disrupting viewing as channels are moved and moved back?


DirecTV has long had a Harmonic Digital Distribution System, all the way back to when that system was still in development at Harmonic, and has (presumably) been updated several times since. This system allows the operator to manage (with the current production system) an unlimited number of i/o digital channels as a master controller (even with geographically distributed systems), to include statistial multiplexing and audio mapping.

Viewer 'disruption' would be limited virtually nothing. Using this system is how they are doing 'local' advert insertions on 'national' channels, as an example. As long as the transponder one is moving the stream to is 'hot', it's instantaneous. 

Again, obviously it was all being done 'manually', and there was no 'pre-canned' plan in place. I would say after this 'event', some manager somewhere should be contemplating having such a plan for future 'events', and perhaps multiple failure schemes (i.e., anything they can think of).


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> D15 does not add any new bandwidth for HD channels. D14 is the one that will add capacity for more HD channels, though depending on how likely they feel the problems with D10 are to recur they might hold off on a lot of that until D15 takes over for D10. I'm sure most would agree it is worse to have additional HD channels but be forced to pull them due to problems than to wait a bit longer for them to be added but be confident they will stay


Don't forget it seems by comparison to d11 and d12 that d10 has been a bit underutilized for a long time...

And as one other said, how long before the space ways get reassigned or sold to someone else or focused just on pr for example... I think. That is coming.

Heck I have no idea,but is it at all possible they could repurpose the space ways for Latin America?


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> D15 does not add any new bandwidth for HD channels.


What do mean it won't add any new bandwidth? Can you explain this a little further please? Thanks


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Heck I have no idea,but is it at all possible they could repurpose the space ways for Latin America?


They could, and/or perhaps use D10 in some way.

EDIT: I was thinking of Puerto Rico as the place to repurpose SW2 and/or D10 and somehow read PR when I saw Latin America


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

TheRatPatrol said:


> What do mean it won't add any new bandwidth? Can you explain this a little further please? Thanks


There are certain frequencies licensed from a particular satellite location (i.e. 99, 101, 103) so additional HD channels can only be added where new frequencies are being added where they aren't already being used. D14 can broadcast Ka hi at 99, which wasn't used previously. D15 can broadcast Ka lo or Ka hi at 103, but both are already used (by D10 and D12) so no additional frequencies are being added for HD.

D14 & D15 each add RDBS frequencies from 99 and 103, respectively, but those look to be used for 4K only and thus add no HD channels.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Heck I have no idea,but is it at all possible they could repurpose the space ways for Latin America?


Don't really see how,

All DLA equipment operates in the extended and standard Ku bands. Not Ka.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I think Diana may have hit the nail on the head. All along, I was wondering if the loss of all D10 transponders at once had to do with satellite position/alignment. That is one (of probably very few) things that could cause that to happen. This would not be the first time this has happened to a satellite, and I recall at least one instance where the they never regained control of the satellite (it wasn't DBS). So moving the programming while attempting to (with success) regain control of the satellite was a logical step to take.

Had it been some internal single point of failure (where redundancy had already been lost), I doubt they would have recovered from it. For example, a power buss or something. I don't know that, and I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough about satellites in general, or D10 in particular, to speculate in any more depth than that.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I know even less, but Diana's hypothesis was well written and sound. 

Could (not would or should) the sat. be repurposed to carry sat. internet?


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

If they ever decide to use Ka at 101, that would be a good use for a satellite without reverse band capability.



inkahauts said:


> Don't forget it seems by comparison to d11 and d12 that d10 has been a bit underutilized for a long time...
> And as one other said, how long before the space ways get reassigned or sold to someone else or focused just on pr for example... I think. That is coming.
> Heck I have no idea,but is it at all possible they could repurpose the space ways for Latin America?


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

1948GG said:


> As for the "mass transition" plan, who knows whether automation on that level is possible for them. If it is, it would only be possible after D14 was fully operational, which it wasn't on Thursday. Also, how do you test it, without disrupting viewing as channels are moved and moved back?
> 
> DirecTV has long had a Harmonic Digital Distribution System, all the way back to when that system was still in development at Harmonic, and has (presumably) been updated several times since. This system allows the operator to manage (with the current production system) an unlimited number of i/o digital channels as a master controller (even with geographically distributed systems), to include statistial multiplexing and audio mapping.
> 
> ...


Yup...I remember back a few years ago when they had just started using Ka and they were moving channels between transponders pretty regularly. Neither I nor anyone else ever noticed even a moment's disruption. I am pretty sure I even had a recording that included the move...I could never find the actual switch point for sure (couldn't tell if the one tiny glitch I found was a move or an unrecoverable error).


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

When you have an entire sat go down, IMHO I'm guessing that you don't want anything set to happen automatically because over the long course there may be small changes that would make a auto change cause even more issues. I think getting it moved in under six hours for the most part was quite impressive and probably was to some sort of pre planned process in case of something like this. 

And yeah I'm with Carl in thinking Diana suggestions make a lot of sense.


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## mrro82 (Sep 12, 2012)

Out of curiosity, Kyl posted 3 new channels in test. 2 are on D14 and 1 on D11. How did they decide to use D11 for one of them if D14 is the new bird? Just wondering how they decide placement of new channels. This stuff is still new to me.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

They replaced 3 HD Cinema channels that were initially on D10 up until Thursday morning before it went down, at first when D10 was still down they moved things to other satellites, now it's 2 on D14 and 1 on D10.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

David Ortiz said:


> If they ever decide to use Ka at 101, that would be a good use for a satellite without reverse band capability.


They won't use D10 for that because it doesn't do Ku and would be near the end of its planned lifetime by the time they'd have any need for Ka at 101 - the only thing I can imagine that would require it is if 4K follows the same adoption rate as HD, which is questionable at best. Perhaps once the dust settles on the AT&T buyout (whether approved or not) a couple more satellite contracts will be announced to replace D4S/D8/D9S at 101. Given the ~4-5 years it seems to take from announcement to service if they want them in orbit in 2020 they'll need to let the contracts in the next year.

As far as we can tell, they never really made much use of the Ka at 101 - it most certainly isn't "backhauling locals" as originally planned but seems to be at best a redundant path between a few of their broadcast centers. If they want to use Ka for customers, rather than the wideband Ka spot beams D8/D9S have, the new satellites would have regular Ka transponders - probably configured similarly to D15. D15 will have Ku transponders it doesn't use at 103, these might have RDBS transponders they don't use at 101.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Diana C said:


> Yup...I remember back a few years ago when they had just started using Ka and they were moving channels between transponders pretty regularly. Neither I nor anyone else ever noticed even a moment's disruption. I am pretty sure I even had a recording that included the move...I could never find the actual switch point for sure (couldn't tell if the one tiny glitch I found was a move or an unrecoverable error).


That's neat they're able to move channels live without disruption, I didn't realize the receivers could get live updates of the guide data that maps channels to locations to be able to do that. I'm surprised they don't take advantage of that more, I could think of a few useful things they could do with that capability.


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm wondering, If D14 is working, why switch the signals back to D10?


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## sangs (Apr 2, 2008)

Just want to say that this stuff is fascinating. I don't comprehend it all, but might be the start of a new hobby.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

alnielsen said:


> I'm wondering, If D14 is working, why switch the signals back to D10?


.

They hadn't finished fully prepping and testing and while it worked they still want to finish the testing and prepping. At least that's my main guess. Plus they want to get stuff backup on d10 Id think.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> That's neat they're able to move channels live without disruption, I didn't realize the receivers could get live updates of the guide data that maps channels to locations to be able to do that. I'm surprised they don't take advantage of that more, I could think of a few useful things they could do with that capability.


I think the key is when they have channels on both satelites at the same time and make the switch. Something that obviously can't happen if one sat dies with the signals and they don't have the signals already up on another sat. That's why you'd never see something so smooth in an emergency situation IMHO.


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## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

It seems like the only channels I am getting now are my HD and SD locals. I guess that is normal for this situation?


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

dminches said:


> It seems like the only channels I am getting now are my HD and SD locals. I guess that is normal for this situation?


No, almost all channels are operational now. What are you seeing on other channels?


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## dminches (Oct 1, 2006)

longrider said:


> No, almost all channels are operational now. What are you seeing on other channels?


In between posts they returned. I had stopped watching.

Thanks.


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

Mine were all back this am- not when this was "officially" fixed.

What would be great if there a way to select the SD version of a channel via some special sequence on the remote rather than having to change options to display all vs hide SD. So I could enter a -256 (??) that would select the SD version of HD. Would make life much easier when this happens and it has happened to be 2 times in last 6 months.

I'll find the right forum and suggest.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

CTJon said:


> Mine were all back this am- not when this was "officially" fixed.
> 
> What would be great if there a way to select the SD version of a channel via some special sequence on the remote rather than having to change options to display all vs hide SD. So I could enter a -256 (??) that would select the SD version of HD. Would make life much easier when this happens and it has happened to be 2 times in last 6 months.
> 
> I'll find the right forum and suggest.


You can leave your settings at "all channels" and your sd channels will be along side the hd versions.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

CTJon said:


> Mine were all back this am- not when this was "officially" fixed.
> 
> What would be great if there a way to select the SD version of a channel via some special sequence on the remote rather than having to change options to display all vs hide SD. So I could enter a -256 (??) that would select the SD version of HD. Would make life much easier when this happens and it has happened to be 2 times in last 6 months.
> 
> I'll find the right forum and suggest.


Beyond putting a few select SD channels into the quicktune menu for rapid call-up, don't know of a way to do this ...


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

http://youtu.be/QuoKNZjr8_U


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> I think the key is when they have channels on both satelites at the same time and make the switch. Something that obviously can't happen if one sat dies with the signals and they don't have the signals already up on another sat. That's why you'd never see something so smooth in an emergency situation IMHO.


I'd call that a good answer.

On a normal move the channels are up in both places before and for a time after the move. The move occurs when the table that tells the receiver which transponder to use changes to point to the new transponder. But the signal stays on the old transponder beyond that change.

If the receiver is already tuned to a channel there is no reason to look up where that channel is and change to it. As long as the channel exists on the old transponder and the receiver doesn't go looking the old channel location could be used.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> I'd call that a good answer.
> 
> On a normal move the channels are up in both places before and for a time after the move. The move occurs when the table that tells the receiver which transponder to use changes to point to the new transponder. But the signal stays on the old transponder beyond that change.
> 
> If the receiver is already tuned to a channel there is no reason to look up where that channel is and change to it. As long as the channel exists on the old transponder and the receiver doesn't go looking the old channel location could be used.


Is there any way for Directv to 'signal' the receiver to switch to the new transponder? Otherwise I would think switching transponders would be a problem for places like hotels that have banks of receivers set on a single channel feeding into modulators, since those receivers never change channels...


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

It still works in those situations, because the receiver is simply looking for a channel. Just because you never change channels on a particular receiver, the receiver will still look to the correct transponder and polarity and when that is changed, it will now look to the new correct transponder and polarity (and satellite).


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Just like authorization codes, I'm sure the satellite map is refreshed on a regular basis.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

I saw it happen Thursday night with a few of the channels as they were coming back online from new locations.

If you want to see for yourself, try watching one of the Rugby, EPL or UEFA channels and leave it on after the last game of the day is over or turn on one of the HD Cinema channels at the end of the final movie before it gets repurposed for an RSN alternate for the evening, eventually you'll be switched to the standby feed without needing to do anything.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Is there any way for Directv to 'signal' the receiver to switch to the new transponder? Otherwise I would think switching transponders would be a problem for places like hotels that have banks of receivers set on a single channel feeding into modulators, since those receivers never change channels...


Dropping the old signal would cause the receiver to go looking for the new signal.


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## elaclair (Jun 18, 2004)

With the mention of D15 not adding bandwidth due to frequency assignments, it begs the question (at least for me) is there a comprehensive list somewhere that shows what frequencies are available at each slot? And which are assigned and which are free?


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

This PDF shows all frequencies that have at their disposal. http://manuals.solidsignal.com/WB68_Install_Guide.pdf

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

elaclair said:


> With the mention of D15 not adding bandwidth due to frequency assignments, it begs the question (at least for me) is there a comprehensive list somewhere that shows what frequencies are available at each slot? And which are assigned and which are free?


Frequency ranges
Ka lo: 18300 - 18800 MHz
Ka hi: 19700 - 20200 MHz
Ku: 12200 - 12700 MHz
RDBS: 17300 - 17700 MHz

Directv's US assignments
99: Ka hi, Ka lo, RDBS
101: Ku (and Ka hi, Ka lo but those are currently used internally by Directv)
103: Ka hi, Ka lo, RDBS
110: Ku (3 transponders only)
119: Ku (11 transponders only)

Directv's leased capacity (likely going away in the future)
95: Ku (8 transponders only - requires second dish)

D14 fills in the Ka hi and RDBS at 99, and D15 will fill in the RDBS at 103. After D15's launch Directv will be using all the frequencies it is licensed to use in the US.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

slice1900 said:


> D14 fills in the Ka hi and RDBS at 99, and D15 will fill in the RDBS at 103. After D15's launch Directv will be using all the frequencies it is licensed to use in the US.


Does that not assume that the other satellites in the 99 and 103 slots continue to operate as they do now? Don't D14 and D15 have the capability to deliver other frequencies if those frequencies are turned off on one or more of the existing satellites (I am thinking specifically of D10). D15 could replace D10 and still have some RDBS capability, could it not?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

fleckrj said:


> Does that not assume that the other satellites in the 99 and 103 slots continue to operate as they do now? Don't D14 and D15 have the capability to deliver other frequencies if those frequencies are turned off on one or more of the existing satellites (I am thinking specifically of D10). D15 could replace D10 and still have some RDBS capability, could it not?


I'm talking about covering frequencies they have licensed but currently don't utilize. There will always be launches that replace existing coverage since satellites have a finite lifespan, but the question was about adding bandwidth; what frequencies Directv has available and which are free.

To answer your question, yes it is very likely D15 can replace D10's Ka lo as well as cover RDBS. It may well have been designed wtih the idea of replacing D10 in mind from day one, since many of D10's issues were known about when D15 was on the drawing board. D15 also has Ku transponders which it will never use at 103, but Directv figured they were worth including to allow it to move to 101 someday if needs dictate. I don't know how much that adds to the cost, but when measured against the total cost of designing, building and launching a satellite, I'd bet that adding Ku capability added only a few percent to the cost - well worth it for the future flexibility that affords them. Even if they never use it, it is good to have it in case of something unexpected.


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## elaclair (Jun 18, 2004)

Very cool, thanks! One other quick one and then I'll quit so we get back on topic. Does polarity play in to the licensing/allocation at all?



slice1900 said:


> Frequency ranges
> Ka lo: 18300 - 18800 MHz
> Ka hi: 19700 - 20200 MHz
> Ku: 12200 - 12700 MHz
> ...


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

elaclair said:


> Very cool, thanks! One other quick one and then I'll quit so we get back on topic. Does polarity play in to the licensing/allocation at all?


Directv's licenses cover both polarities for 99/101/103, so basically where I have a 500 MHz range, Directv has double that since they have the same 500 MHz range in LHCP and RHCP.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Phoenix locals are down.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

tonyd79 said:


> Just like authorization codes, I'm sure the satellite map is refreshed on a regular basis.


nope, you're messing with how dish doing (each four hours), dtv constantly sending two levels updates as list of updates and short updates to internal databases, include channels, transponders,etc


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Frequency ranges
Ka lo: 18300 - 18800 MHz
Ka hi: 19700 - 20200 MHz
Ku: 12200 - 12700 MHz
RDBS: 17300 - 17700 MHz

I am having a problem getting my head around how these Frequency Ranges are distributed between 99 and 103. Are they sheared with both slots or can the complete range be used independently by each slot?


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## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> Frequency ranges
> Ka lo: 18300 - 18800 MHz
> Ka hi: 19700 - 20200 MHz
> Ku: 12200 - 12700 MHz
> ...


Both locations 99 and 103 will have both ka and RDBS frequencies listed. You can reuse the same frequency if its in a different location.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

mexican-bum said:


> Both locations 99 and 103 will have both ka and RDBS frequencies listed. You can reuse the same frequency if its in a different location.


That is what I thought, but if the same frequencies are received from two different locations, how do they not interfere with each other when they get to the LNB. Is the angle they bounce off the dish enough to separate them?


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

lwilli201 said:


> .... Is the angle they bounce off the dish enough to separate them?


Yes. Each satellite location reflects to its own unique LNB antenna element. The single housing on the Slimline 3-LNB assembly actually contains three different receiving antennas (99, 101 and 103ºW).


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

litzdog911 said:


> Yes. Each satellite location reflects to its own unique LNB antenna element. The single housing on the Slimline 3-LNB assembly actually contains three different receiving antennas (99, 101 and 103ºW).


I found an old FW9 LNB with three distinct pathways to three different elements which validates what you said. It sure looks like splitting hairs with distances involved, but if it works that is what counts. :righton:


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

lwilli201 said:


> I found an old FW9 LNB with three distinct pathways to three different elements which validates what you said. It sure looks like splitting hairs with distances involved, but if it works that is what counts. :righton:


This illustration of an SL-5 may help explain the concept ...









Red dot is the boresight axis point to the 119 satellite position.
Orange is to 110.
Yellow to 103
Lime green to 101
Darker green to 99

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

P Smith said:


> nope, you're messing with how dish doing (each four hours), dtv constantly sending two levels updates as list of updates and short updates to internal databases, include channels, transponders,etc


I wish I could decipher your post.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> This illustration of an SL-5 may help explain the concept ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It almost looks like they would have room for 95w on there. Some speculated that the LNB arm had room for an addtional LNB for it, but it never came about.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

TheRatPatrol said:


> It almost looks like they would have room for 95w on there. Some speculated that the LNB arm had room for an addtional LNB for it, but it never came about.


95 is not circular polarity like the satellites the Slimline receives, it is linear polarity. That requires a different type of adjustment than circular polarity and it wouldn't be possible to make a LNB that could receive Directv's other satellites and also receive 95 - at least not without building it with moving parts.

They might have built it the way they did for balance or aesthetics, or maybe at one time they thought they might apply for a license for a more eastern satellite location but it never happened.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It makes sense to have the center of the dish aimed at the ka satellites. That should give them the most surface area of the dish to get a better signal. The DBS satellites are higher powered and can be on the edges of the dish.

(DISH did this with their ku low dishes for 105 and 121. The weakest signal was received by the LNB at the center of the dish.)


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> It makes sense to have the center of the dish aimed at the ka satellites. That should give them the most surface area of the dish to get a better signal. The DBS satellites are higher powered and can be on the edges of the dish.
> 
> (DISH did this with their ku low dishes for 105 and 121. The weakest signal was received by the LNB at the center of the dish.)


The "Ku lo" or FSS frequencies are broadcast at much lower power than BSS Ku. That's why you need a bigger dish for that frequency.

Directv's Ka is broadcast at almost as much power as BSS Ku - only 1.5 db at the strongest point in Florida comparing D9S and D14. The reason they are aimed where they are is because 99/101/103 is where almost all their stuff is, they have comparatively little at 110/119.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

tonyd79 said:


> I wish I could decipher your post.


I'm wondered how do you know about auth streaming's parameters and why you so sure about SI updates ?

If you really willing to know, you could DIY: WinPC, TSreaderLite, TH-1020A or SW-1 card and some custom DLL [plugin for TSReader].
Watch and learn !


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

P Smith said:


> I'm wondered how do you know about auth streaming's parameters and why you so sure about SI updates ?
> 
> If you really willing to know, you could DIY: WinPC, TSreaderLite, TH-1020A or SW-1 card and some custom DLL [plugin for TSReader].
> Watch and learn !


All too often, your posts are at best tangential and sometimes feel like gibberish.

I am sure about updates because they happen all the time or you'd see errors all over the place and a system that would just set up information once in a long while would be insane.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

tonyd79 said:


> All too often, your posts are at best tangential and sometimes feel like gibberish.


Not trying to pile it on, but I agree with tonyd79. I've read the post above a number of times and I can't make sense of it either.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Ok guys/gals, let's get back to the topic. If you have questions about posts ask them or use PM.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

They ever figure out what caused the outage? Solar activity even?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I doubt we will ever know unless it is mentioned in a conference call after the quarter and they announce they are decomishing it or something after d15 goes live...


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

Skyboss said:


> They ever figure out what caused the outage? Solar activity even?


If it was solar activity, it would have affected more than one satellite. As a Ham, I check space weather daily and I don't remember any significant events happening in a long time.


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## glrush (Jun 29, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> I doubt we will ever know unless it is mentioned in a conference call after the quarter and they announce they are decomishing it or something after d15 goes live..


Would they have to disclose it in a regulatory filing it they have to write off the investment ?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

only if they will find a silence will harm business, then the disclosure will be published


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

glrush said:


> Would they have to disclose it in a regulatory filing it they have to write off the investment ?


Most likely they only way we will know is if they file an insurance claim, since the claim would have to be reported on the balance sheet of both DirecTV and the insurance carrier. Of course, it might take more digging to find that than anyone is willing to expend.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

On the other hand, it makes business sense to disclose the non-operational aspect of the sat. when that happens. Not a biggie, just a sentence or two in a filing and a mention in an investor call session.

Everyone following the business closely already knows a fair amount, and transparency is almost always better than not.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

alnielsen said:


> If it was solar activity, it would have affected more than one satellite. As a Ham, I check space weather daily and I don't remember any significant events happening in a long time.


Is it time for the semi-annual sun outage? I got that slide on a channel last Friday.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jon J said:


> Is it time for the semi-annual sun outage? I got that slide on a channel last Friday.


Yes ...

Already being discussed here: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/216856-sun-outages-already/


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## HerntDawg (Oct 6, 2008)

I have not had my signals on most of these channels recovered, any ideas?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HerntDawg said:


> I have not had my signals on most of these channels recovered, any ideas?


Call CSR and schedule tech's visit.


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## thelucky1 (Feb 23, 2009)

All Lubbock Texas locals are off due to technical problems! Are they on D10?

(Sorry I didn't know where to post or which satellite LBB locals are on.)


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## Gary Toma (Mar 23, 2006)

Lubbock Locals

Lubbock has 6 locals on SW1 and 1 local on D11.

If all 7 of these channels are out, there are problems getting the feeds out of Lubbock to Directv.


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## thelucky1 (Feb 23, 2009)

Gary Toma said:


> Lubbock Locals
> 
> Lubbock has 6 locals on SW1 and 1 local on D11.
> 
> If all 7 of these channels are out, there are problems getting the feeds out of Lubbock to Directv.


Thank you Gary!

Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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