# 721 -> Hard drive failure -> How to fix ?



## Jewel (Dec 20, 2003)

I've got myself a 721, but the HDU is bad (Read : dead !!!). It will spin up but will do a weird noise ("clink") at 5 seconds intervall. I've got myself the EXACT SAME model (Maxtor 4G120J6) that I "low-level formatted" through PowerMax). Here are the questions :

I read throught Kyoo posts (Which are simply INCREDIBLE !!! Great stuff, unbelievable...) that the HDU is Linux based. I also read that there seems to be a "reload" fonction (Through reformatting). Would that apply to a brand new (Actually used, but in fair condition) drive ? The 721 is out of warranty. Is that operation driven by a menu ? How is the process taking place ? (E.g. : Is a part staged in ROM/Flash and the other downloaded through the stream ? Will all this function if only one of the two satellites feeds hooked up ? (I don't have a DishPro setup YET, only 2 lnbs with sw21)

How long is this operation ? Is this an automated operation taking place after the initial report of failure ? (I doubt it, since I don't hear any "real activity" on drive)

As of the legality, what are the implications of me doing this since the HDU is dead and the IRD itself is not under any warranty ? Am I not allowed to fix the HDU issue since the fact of removing the hard drive only voids the warranty (Which I don't have anyway) ?

Help would be greately appreciated on these matters ?

Sincerely,

Jewel


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

You'd be better off ordering the $1.99 a month extended warrenty, keeping it for 30 days and then having Dish swap out your dead 721 for a new one.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Jewel said:


> I've got myself a 721, but the HDU is bad (Read : dead !!!). It will spin up but will do a weird noise ("clink") at 5 seconds intervall. I've got myself the EXACT SAME model (Maxtor 4G120J6) that I "low-level formatted" through PowerMax). Here are the questions :
> 
> I read throught Kyoo posts (Which are simply INCREDIBLE !!! Great stuff, unbelievable...) that the HDU is Linux based. I also read that there seems to be a "reload" fonction (Through reformatting). Would that apply to a brand new (Actually used, but in fair condition) drive ? The 721 is out of warranty. Is that operation driven by a menu ? How is the process taking place ? (E.g. : Is a part staged in ROM/Flash and the other downloaded through the stream ? Will all this function if only one of the two satellites feeds hooked up ? (I don't have a DishPro setup YET, only 2 lnbs with sw21)
> 
> ...


Dish takes special pains to ensure that "just swapping the hard drive" is practically impossible for those who are not into hacking. Mark's suggestion about the $1.99 extended warranty is practically a requirement for those of us with E* DVRs for this reason.


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## JohnB (Jul 12, 2002)

About 8 months ago I had a bad EPG and the only solution was to wait for the next software update or reset the hard drive, losing all recordings but having the hard disc reformatted. I did the following procedure.

1) Unplug power cord
2) Remove screws on case
3) Slide case off
4) unplug hard drive power connector
5) Plug in 721 power cord - Machine will state hard disc failure
6) Power off
7) unplug 721 power cord
8) Plug hard drive power connection back in
9) Attach case
10) Plug 721 power back in

It should reformat your hard drive and download software automatically. I did not try this with a different hard drive and am not sure how married the 721 is to the original one.


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## Jewel (Dec 20, 2003)

JohnB : great idea, but as you stated, this trick doesn't work if you have a "blank hard drive". Reformatting will happen if, and only if, the IRD is "married" to the HDU.

As of the extended warranty, since my receiver is not covered by any warranty, how could I "extend" it ? I cannot extend what I don't have... (I think...)

Still searching... Thank you for your answers. Don't hesitate to drop some more ideas if you have any,

Regards,

Jewel


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Jewel - you aren't "extending" anything - and yes, you CAN get it - you just have to wait 30 days before using it.


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## maltese_mom (Feb 1, 2003)

Just call dish and say you want to sign up for the warranty program on all your receivers.

I pay $4.99 a month, but there is a $1.99 program too, not sure what the difference is (besides $3).


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## jerryyyyy (Jul 19, 2002)

When mine was going downhill I just ordered the $1.99 addon and got a new machine in a few days. They know these things are dogs.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Someone mentioned before the PVR721 doesn't have to 'marry' hard drive - the model used TripleDES for encrypting recordings what prevent from stealing movies much better then 'marry' to disk as implemented in PVR501.


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## Jewel (Dec 20, 2003)

PSmith: Great info again. I read that myself in the Kyoo thread (Or somewhere similar). The idea here is that 3DES is a symetric Private/Public key encryption scheme. I'm assuming that part of the "keys" are build from individualized informations (Secret keys, IRD#, CAM ID,etc...). My guess would be that (Theoricaly) a HDU from one PVR721 will not work on another unit. It's not marrying the HDU and Receiver the way the other PVR do (DP501/508) but I'm pretty sure it's using some unique infos to encrypt data to make sure not only that the stream stored on the HDU is "unreadable" but that the HDU cannot be installed in another unit.

Still in the hunt... (I will probably go for the 1.99$/month extended warranty but I'm curious... so I'll keep searching...)

Regards,

Jewel


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Be careful...starting to tread close to violating the terms of use around here...


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Jewel said:


> PSmith: Great info again. I read that myself in the Kyoo thread (Or somewhere similar). The idea here is that 3DES is a symetric Private/Public key encryption scheme. ...Jewel


I suspect lots of bad info here.

Symetric key encrytion,of which 3DES is the most famous, are not Private/Public keys. Simple Secret key scheme. They are usually much faster then Private/public key. In fact most schemes, such as ssl, start there handshakes with private/public keys and then exchange either a des or 3des key (or other symetric key) and carry on the rest of the conversation with that key. This symetric key is kept only for the life of the conversation and then is discarded.

I have no idea what, if any, encryption Dish is using in its recording. Probably the hard drive has absolutely no ability to do any encryption. If it encrypts at all it probably is all encrypted and decrypted in the rest of the hardware. This would just make it impossible for the drive, or the material on it, to be read and produce anything sensible if moved somewhere else.

Most systems that marry to their disk do so at a different level than this.


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## Jewel (Dec 20, 2003)

I agree. I should refrain myself to less specific info. I just want to remind everybody that my search involves "reviving" my IRD, period ! I couldn't care less about the content otherwise than making it work. I just got it and I can't use it, period (Again)! I went to some extent to get a similar drive and I feel there should be a legit (Without breaking any agreement here or with Dish Network) solution to my problem. An out of warranty one, but a legit one. My reference to 3DES was pulled out Kyoo thread, which seems to be accepted as one of the great technical ones about the 721 model. As of my understanding of the 3DES, I'm maybe wrong about the technical aspects BUT it's a public scheme (Compared to , let's say, Motorola Dicipher's one)and none of it is owned by DN (That, I'm sure of).

Regards,

Jewel


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Some additional info ( as I recall ) come to my memory from same old discussions - ppl did Linux format new clean disk using same partitions types and sizes and did copy only one boot partition from bad ( but still readable drive ) and functionality the PVR721 was restored. I'm not sure in details, but definitely that person was happy.


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## Jewel (Dec 20, 2003)

P Smith: The only problem with this solution is that you need the HDU to be readable in the boot partition. Mine is spinning at power up, then has a "metallic" sound every seconds or so after. So there's no way for me to access any of the data since the full initialization of the HDU doesn't take place. APPARENTLY, it's a well known in the Maxtor D540X series (From a reputable Data Recovery Company). I do appreciate your efforts.

Regards,

Jewel


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You know, if I properly read that time between words, the boot partition is generic and could be used for restore any PVR.


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## Jewel (Dec 20, 2003)

P Smith: I see (says the blind man...)... Now, how do I get this point ? Asking for it will PROBABLY be considered an infringement of some sort here or with Dish Network (I respect that). I want to keep this as clean as possible... The goal here is to FIX something broken... What should be the next step to try this...
Regards,

Jewel

(I'm no Linux God... But I sure can learn)


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## retiredTech (Oct 27, 2003)

Jewel said:


> The goal here is to FIX something broken... What should be the next step to try this...
> Regards,
> Jewel


It has already been said, but I will re-say it, in case you didn't get it.

Your premise of being able to legally repair your unit my be "your right".

However, it is NOT considered SO by E*.

ANY E* equipment, even an "out of warranty" 721 MAY be added to the $1.99
warranty plan. 
The legit way for coverage is :

1)to activate your equipment's numbers
2)get the warranty coverage ($1.99 per month)
3) your coverage is effective after 30 days
4)if you have any E* equipment failure, report the problem to "tech support"
5)tech support has you send in equipment, E* repairs it free (plus shipping or use CC auto-pay and get free shipping too)

(of course, if "evidence" 
of breaking the seals and screwing around with your equipment is "found" 
might void your warranty.)


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## Jewel (Dec 20, 2003)

retiretech : I got it the first time. Did it occur to you that one of the reason why I can't get the warranty extension is that the previous owner tried to fix the problem himself (You can or can't believe me, it's entirely up to you)... I bought a used PVR721 knowing that the HDU was "broken". What I didn't know is that the previous owner had fooled around with it... Now, I'm basicaly stuck with a nice electronic decoration !!! I'm only trying to get it to work, period ! That's why I've posted here on a legit BBS to see if there are avenues or solutions or options available to me in a legal way. Extending the warranty would have been great, but the receiver doesn't qualify anymore...

Regards,

Jewel


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## rcwilcox (Jan 20, 2003)

Jewel said:


> retiretech : I got it the first time. Did it occur to you that one of the reason why I can't get the warranty extension is that the previous owner tried to fix the problem himself (You can or can't believe me, it's entirely up to you)... I bought a used PVR721 knowing that the HDU was "broken". What I didn't know is that the previous owner had fooled around with it... Now, I'm basicaly stuck with a nice electronic decoration !!! I'm only trying to get it to work, period ! That's why I've posted here on a legit BBS to see if there are avenues or solutions or options available to me in a legal way. Extending the warranty would have been great, but the receiver doesn't qualify anymore...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jewel


You need to call Dish. I bought a 301 with a card that belonged to a different receiver. They couldn't authorize me because of the card could not go with the receiver. The lady then offered that if I would go for the $4.99 warranty She would swap it immediately and for free. No brainer, went for it. I have since swapped out two bad remotes for free too. I am getting my moneys worth. Call them up from a payphone and be honest with them. I bet they want to sell the warranty so bad they will do it for you for the warranty. If so tell them who you are and sign up. Certainly worth a free call.


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## taschroth (Dec 31, 2003)

What about swapping drives if the original still works using a partition / image copying software such as drive copy?

If so, could a larger drive be put in its place while you are at it?

My 721 has twice started clicking (months between) and unplugging it and replugging got it to reinstall the image and back up and runing!


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