# HR21 by Xmas???



## dsstalkcom (Oct 14, 2006)

is DTV really coming out with the HR21 next month?

i know broadcom is working on the chip for both HR21 and H21. also that DTV wants it by next month.


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## cybrsurfer (Sep 17, 2006)

dsstalkcom said:


> is DTV really coming out with the HR21 next month?
> 
> i know broadcom is working on the chip for both HR21 and H21. also that DTV wants it by next month.


Where are you getting this info from?

Is this what you are referring to by David Joseph Edgar Curriculum Vitae:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...r21&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

Pace Micro Technology PLC - Shipley
At Pace I have been working on High Definition TV Personnel Video Recorder (PVR) STB's for a large American
Satellite Network (DirecTV®). These STB's (the HR20 and HR21) were designed around the Broadcom
BCM7038/BCM7411 and BCM7401 family of devices and were used to implement MPEG-2/MPEG-4/DSS
decoding/recording/streaming. The front end consisted of three DVB-S/DVBS-2/DSS satellite tuners from Conexant and two ATSC terrestrial tuner modules (NIM's). The tuners/demodulators were accessed via I
2C links. I was working on the Linux Kernel (base version 2.6.12), Linux Device Driver layer (including PCI) in kernel space/interrupt context and the streaming of audio visual data to and from the Hard Drive which included supporting'Trick Modes'. The software was written in 'C'/'C++' and ran on integrated MIPS R5000/R3000 processors under the Linux Kernel. Development was PC hosted and used the GNU tool chain. CVS was used for configuration control, Microsoft Word for documentation and Bugzilla for bug tracking.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Don't feed the troll.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There is no main stream new unit being developed.

It is possible the renamed the HR20P to the HR21 to avoid any confusion.


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There is no main stream new unit being developed.
> 
> It is possible the renamed the HR20P to the HR21 to avoid any confusion.


Earl

For us newbe's what is the HR20P?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The HR20p is a version first saw last CES.

It is a really high end DVR, designed to be in a RACK mounted AV System.
It has a 4" LCD on the front, and has all sorts of addition options for controling the system via automated systems....

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/04/03/directvs-pro-hd-dvr-d-hr20p/


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## O2BRich (Nov 8, 2006)

I want one 

Thanks Earl


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There is no main stream new unit being developed.
> 
> It is possible the renamed the HR20P to the HR21 to avoid any confusion.


So, this unit isn't for mainstream distribution? Is it for commercial purposes?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tiger2005 said:


> So, this unit isn't for mainstream distribution? Is it for commercial purposes?


I ment main stream as the average consumer.

The HR20p is not targetting the "average joe"


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## cybrsurfer (Sep 17, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> Don't feed the troll.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

cybrsurfer said:


>


Not your. The OP. I figured he was saying the HR20 was crap and they should make an HR21 and I figured there was no way they would be making a new model so soon. I guess my bad.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I ment main stream as the average consumer.
> 
> The HR20p is not targetting the "average joe"


Thanks, Earl! Any idea how much this bad boy will run and how long until you get one and post a review?


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

tiger2005 said:


> Thanks, Earl! Any idea how much this bad boy will run and how long until you get one and post a review?


The article says $1500-$2000 (pocket change).

Earl - An chance I can put my application in now to be an offical DTV beta tester?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tiger2005 said:


> Thanks, Earl! Any idea how much this bad boy will run and how long until you get one and post a review?





Radio Enginerd said:


> The article says $1500-$2000 (pocket change).
> 
> Earl - An chance I can put my application in now to be an offical DTV beta tester?


Well as most you know there is no external DirecTV Beta program.. at least not yet (I know they have intrigued as of late... most because of all the information obtained from this forum and others)....

You will be sure to hear about it here, if they ever do open up applications for official beta testing...

As for when I get to do a review...  No idea yet... there are a few other things that I might get to review before it is out.


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## ZDawg (Nov 7, 2006)

I think D* has a rather large external Beta program in place. Put out a new product, cruse the boards and see what everyone complains about. 


Z


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> The article says $1500-$2000 (pocket change).
> 
> Earl - An chance I can put my application in now to be an offical DTV beta tester?


Hey maybe Retention will cut deals for s/h only.


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## dsstalkcom (Oct 14, 2006)

cybrsurfer said:


> Where are you getting this info from?
> 
> Is this what you are referring to by David Joseph Edgar Curriculum Vitae:
> http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...r21&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a
> ...


i have a friend that works at Broadcom. he is writing test program for the chips. i told him i have a HR20 and it seems to be working okay, but that i read that the HR20 has many bugs and some would say it is not too stable. i got the HR20 for my father. as far as i know it is working fine. i do not think he does much with it besides just manual record and playback.

anyway, my friend at Broadcom said he is writing a test program for the HR21 and H21. something about 2 feeds and 3 coming out. and the other test is for 1 feed and 2 coming out. that is all he said. not sure what that is about.

sounds to me DTV is considering going with a Broadcom chips.

Broadcom does chips for both Dishnetwork and DTV. i think DTV is more recent. they have been doing chips for Dishnetwork at least 2 yrs+


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## Ahmed G (Dec 28, 2006)

dsstalkcom said:


> i have a friend that works at Broadcom. he is writing test program for the chips. i told him i have a HR20 and it seems to be working okay, but that i read that the HR20 has many bugs and some would say it is not too stable. i got the HR20 for my father. as far as i know it is working fine. i do not think he does much with it besides just manual record and playback.
> 
> anyway, my friend at Broadcom said he is writing a test program for the HR21 and H21. something about 2 feeds and 3 coming out. and the other test is for 1 feed and 2 coming out. that is all he said. not sure what that is about.
> 
> ...


dsstalk,

Assuming your friend has not yet gotten himself terminated for publicizing details of unreleased products...

Have you heard anything new about this unit?

The product briefs could support a theory that it is merely a cost reduced version, eliminating redundant decoders.

Stability issues are usually caused by bad software, since hardware/chip engineers are typically more disciplined and meticulous. So this is probably not the impetus for a redesign.

Obviously nothing came out for Xmas.

Any news at all?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Looks like I'll be headed to CES this year and maybe Directv will have some updates for us there.


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## tonycrf (Dec 18, 2006)

Man. This is what I need. I have 2 HR20's on a rack in my basement feeding 2 different rooms. No sharing capabilities between the two as it is configured now. 

I might have to get a 21 if/when they come out. Hopefully, they have a very big drive, though...


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 12, 2006)

Ahmed G said:


> Stability issues are usually caused by bad software, since hardware/chip engineers are typically more disciplined and meticulous. So this is probably not the impetus for a redesign.


Hah - there ia also another way to look at it:

HW engineering is so much easier than SW engineering that any monkey can plug components together, check the states with a logic analyzer, and call it a day. SW engineering requires juggling the threads of an almost infinite state machine while adding tons of non-essential code to make up for the inadequacies of the HW design.


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## Ahmed G (Dec 28, 2006)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> Hah - there ia also another way to look at it:
> 
> HW engineering is so much easier than SW engineering that any monkey can plug components together, check the states with a logic analyzer, and call it a day. SW engineering requires juggling the threads of an almost infinite state machine while adding tons of non-essential code to make up for the inadequacies of the HW design.


True, nobody said it was easy.

As a matter of fact, high quality SW engineers are quite rare. Low-quality SW engineers are plentiful (especially in the third world).

Most of the SW engineers I have come in contact with are utter morons. Predictably enough, they crank out buggy software that gives a well-designed hardware platform (such as the HR20) an undeserved bad reputation.

I chalk this situation up to the duality that it is easy to write software in general, but hard to write software well. GNU and Microsoft both deserve blame for this, as they have lowered the barriers to entry.

Back to the topic at hand...

Yes, DirecTV uses Broadcom chipsets. The very first Series 2 DTivos (late 2002) used them first.

More recently, ST began losing market share in the non-DVR segment across the board. As the cost of flash becomes negligible, providers will undoubtedly favor a Mips/Linux/gcc platform over the proprietary Transputer/OS20/ST solution, because it lets them steal more Free software to run on their closed platforms. In addition, Linux is more secure and robust than anything else out there. What this adds up to is a quicker time-to-market and reduced development expenses.


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## dsstalkcom (Oct 14, 2006)

Latest update is that the HR21 has been certified by DTV. the chips were done at Broadcom. DTV is also testing chips from Conexant. Oh, also DTV said Conexant chip has better performance than the Broadcom chips. Better performance, but not sure if they mean more robust and stable or just better performance in speed and responsiveness.

the HR21 is supposed to be out by sometime next month or July.

in conclusion, Broadcom is done with HR21 and their two chips has been certified by DTV. it's ready and good to go. my friend said DTV is planning to produce and ship next month or in July.

also, Broadcom is now working on the chips for the next unit HR22.

i said wow, HR22.

oh, the HR21 is by Thompson and one other company i forgot the name. according to my friend, DTV is in contact with 7 companies on the chips for the HR DVR unit.


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## dsstalkcom (Oct 14, 2006)

tonycrf said:


> Man. This is what I need. I have 2 HR20's on a rack in my basement feeding 2 different rooms. No sharing capabilities between the two as it is configured now.
> 
> I might have to get a 21 if/when they come out. Hopefully, they have a very big drive, though...


HR21 could be out by this summer.

and yeah there is a HR22 in testing as we speak.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dsstalkcom said:


> Latest update is that the HR21 has been certified by DTV.


What remains to be discovered is what the HR21 is. Is it the Pro model introduced at the 2006 CES, or is it just a refined/enhanced/cost reduced HR20?


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## taylorhively (Nov 29, 2006)

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, I remember mention of DirecTV wanting 3 tuners, but 2 for use for recording.
1 Tuner would be a dedicated data channel for DirecTV to send any kind of data. Interactive content, software updates, etc. As it is now it needs to take over 1 tuner to download a software update for example.

Since the HR21 has 3 tuners, could this be what that is? It's a dual-tuner (to the consumer) but with 1 dedicated tuner for DirecTV's data use?

Pure speculation. I haven't worked in that industry in over a year.

Also, I would be surprised it TiVo was not one of the companies working with the new Boadcomm chip knowing their hopeful renewed relationship with Liberty.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Holy, pulling threads from the dead, Batman!

I think the SWM technology is where any third data path comes from. This is available on the HR20.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well the one thing I can say is that there will be no HR21 by Christmas 2006.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

lamontcranston said:


> Well the one thing I can say is that there will be no HR21 by Christmas 2006.


Or July 2007, either


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

This thread was started before the second manufacturer of the HR20 came aboard.

Armed with the evidence that D* recently added an HR20 manufacturer, logic would say the HR21 must still be aways off.


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## MikeR7 (Jun 17, 2006)

My theory is, and it is just that based on no facts whatsoever, is that the HR21 will be black like the H21. I think the one run of HR20's in black was a manufacturing mistake, that DIRECTV's plan all along was to use the case color to differentiate the newest version of the HD receiver lines.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

MikeR7 said:


> My theory is, and it is just that based on no facts whatsoever, is that the HR21 will be black like the H21. I think the one run of HR20's in black was a manufacturing mistake, that DIRECTV's plan all along was to use the case color to differentiate the newest version of the HD receiver lines.


That would definitely make the HR20-100B's a "to die for" item.


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## MikeR7 (Jun 17, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> That would definitely make the HR20-100B's a "to die for" item.


Yes, thank goodness for E-Bay, where I got mine:lol:


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

brott said:


> Holy, pulling threads from the dead, Batman!


:lol:


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

MikeR7 said:


> Yes, thank goodness for E-Bay, where I got mine:lol:


Maybe it will be a collectors item in the future? 

Better hope it doesn't crap out on you. I'm certain DirecTV won't send you a 100b to replace it with.


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## Duke Green64 (Aug 13, 2007)

whatever the case with these new units, the hr21 & 22, hopefully the usb port will be activated so we can add external storage as we see fit and not be constrained by what's in the box or having to get one with larger storage from an off market retailer.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

Don't need the USB port since the eSATA port is already live on the HR20s.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

...and unlike Dish, you can use eSATA to your heart's content without an extra charge!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...and unlike Dish, you can use eSATA to your heart's content without an extra charge!


Wait until eSATA is "released".


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...and unlike Dish, you can use eSATA to your heart's content without an extra charge!


No extra charge other than losing the availability of a 300GB drive. I think I'd rather pay $40 and have the Dish solution especially when it allows sharing the drive between machines more than what DirecTV has come up with.


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## spoonman (Feb 21, 2007)

Ken S said:


> No extra charge other than losing the availability of a 300GB drive. I think I'd rather pay $40 and have the Dish solution especially when it allows sharing the drive between machines more than what DirecTV has come up with.


I rather be able to access my DVRs though my home network. Which I think D* has planned?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Duke Green64 said:


> whatever the case with these new units, the hr21 & 22, hopefully the usb port will be activated so we can add external storage as we see fit and not be constrained by what's in the box or having to get one with larger storage from an off market retailer.


As others have noted...

USB has no plans to ever be used for external storage.
eSATA drives are available at consumer electronic stores, and will become even more popular with more options in the next year.

As for utilizing both at the same time, they are investigating the options...
There are a LOT of reasons why this is not a "trivial" thing to do.

Will it happen... time will tell, but for now... the current model is what we are going to have for a while.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Really by today's standards 300GB is nothing. I bought a 300GB hard drive for $60. If you're really worried about 300GB buy a bigger eSATA drive, probably cost you less than the $40 Dish wants.


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