# Anyone believe HD is a big deal to most Americans?



## Tugboat

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/24/news/companies/bestbuy_hdtveducation/?postversion=2007092413


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## Stuart Sweet

What can I say. The industry offers informational seminars, the big-box stores have kiosks, the government provides free information, and 89% of the people still don't understand. Oh well, what can you do?


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## Legends

I know a lot of people that don't have a clue about HD. Many cable customers who have "digital" cable think they have HD. I try my best to explain to friends what they need to have HD.


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## mjwagner

Hmm, I read the article and it didn't say anything about HD NOT being a big deal to Americans. It did indicate that they are confused about the equipment that they need to get HD and that they are not budgeting enough to get all the equipment that they need.

IMHO, that is very different than HD not being a big deal to them. 

The confusion is expected. After all we are talking about the average consumer who never could figure out how to even set the clock on their VCR's....


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## Wisegoat

Every TV Costco sells has a giant sticker on it stating that you must get an HD signal from some provider, OTA, Satellite or Cable. It specifically says that you must use an OTA or an HD capable receiver from Satellite or Cable in order to receive an HD signal. I think they are trying pretty hard, especially for a store with no floor customer support dedicated to those items.


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## Snoofie

I can't tell you how many people that I have seen and talked to that think they have HD just because they purchased a widescreen TV. They are the same people that complain because the picture looks so much worse on their big TV than it did on their little TV. It is like talking to a brick wall to try and explain it to them though.


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## SteveEJ

About 22 years ago I went to a computer programming school for work and a student from Japan was there. He asked why our TV was so poor.. Long story short, they have had HD TV for a very long time! I decided way back then I wanted it too!


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## wakajawaka

A friend of mine bought a really nice plasma HDTV, and will not budge on getting any HD content via his cable company. I also told him a cheap antenna would also get him HD, no dice. Whatever, you can lead a horse to water...yada yada yada


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## Kevin Dupuy

I agree. My parents seem to think have HDTV. They have a Dish NEtwork branded HDTV hooked to a D11. Oh well.


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## wakajawaka

SteveEJ said:


> About 22 years ago I went to a computer programming school for work and a student from Japan was there. He asked why our TV was so poor.. Long story short, they have had HD TV for a very long time! I decided way back then I wanted it too!


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## SteveEJ

wakajawaka said:


>


Perkocet.. That's all I can say!   Painful evening.. Not making much sense now.. Sorry


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## mantan

I think a lot of it stems from the fact that buying an HDTV is more complicated than it should be.

I consider myself to be fairly technical. But I was amazed at all the things you had to consider - display technology, HD source, calibration/setup - something as simple as format. A lot of people see TV as entertainment and escape - not a research project.

Most people who see true HD are blown away. But with only a portion of shows being broadcast in HD and most people not having experienced outside a showroom, they don't know what they are missing.

And since SD TV has been meeting the need for 50+ years....


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## richlife

I agree with everything you said. Best Buy and the other "sales" outlet have themselves to blame. It seems like every time I'm in the tv section of any store, I hear the sales people giving out incorrect or confusing information. They are pushing the SALE, not providing accurate info -- even if the buyer would listen.

My own experience in my community, is that people are acutely aware of HD but mostly don't have a clue what to expect, what HD actually is/looks like, or what they need to get it. At least now they're starting to ask questions whereas a year ago they weren't even interested.



mjwagner said:


> Hmm, I read the article and it didn't say anything about HD NOT being a big deal to Americans. It did indicate that they are confused about the equipment that they need to get HD and that they are not budgeting enough to get all the equipment that they need.
> 
> IMHO, that is very different than HD not being a big deal to them.
> 
> The confusion is expected. After all we are talking about the average consumer who never could figure out how to even set the clock on their VCR's....


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## Milominderbinder2

The article says that: "89 percent of people said they lacked a complete understanding of HDTV technology."

Is there anyone in this forum who believes they have a COMPLETE understanding of HDTV technology? Complete would be from compression algorithm theory to post production technique to emerging nanochannel technology. Complete means complete. 

The 11% are a threat to the gene pool. :lol: 

- Craig


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## Lord Vader

Milominderbinder2 said:


> Is there anyone in this forum who believes they have a COMPLETE understanding of HDTV technology?


Tell me about it! I still get a headache when discussions about 1080i, 720p, 1080p, interlacing, 60Hz, 120Hz, cropping, etc. come up.


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## kevinturcotte

Wisegoat said:


> Every TV Costco sells has a giant sticker on it stating that you must get an HD signal from some provider, OTA, Satellite or Cable. It specifically says that you must use an OTA or an HD capable receiver from Satellite or Cable in order to receive an HD signal. I think they are trying pretty hard, especially for a store with no floor customer support dedicated to those items.


The problem I find is, most people (At least that I know) aren't even willing to read the stickers or ANYTHING. Then they can't understand why it doesn't work lol Course, this usually leads to them calling me. I'm going to take away the electronics of everybody I know, I swear lol


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## tonyd79

I think the article is misleading. Most people I know have HD or are planning on it. Sure, they have trouble understanding it. Who didn't at first. I was confused at first and wondered what to do with progressive scan and interlace and different resolutions until I found out that the TVs and other stuff pretty much just take care of it.

All most consumers need to know is what size TV they want and what they are paying. Sure, there are better and worse TVs but that is true for 19 inch analog sets, too. Then they need source. Cable, satellite, fiber, DVDs. It is all good.

They just need friends like us to lead them. My sister had no idea when she started. Her 36 inch analog set died in a thunderstorm and she said "Why not buy HD while I am at it." So, she MEASURED her TV across the BOTTOM then started to look at TVs in ads that were 27 and 32 inch HDTVs, thinking she was going bigger. Eventually we got her worked out and she has a very nice 55 inch LCD RPTV and now watches more TV than she ever did before. The moral? Most people had no idea what they were doing with analog TVs either yet they bought them.

Bottom line...buy pretty picture and spend what you can. All the technical stuff is unimportant to most and always will be. We here who are technofiles are appalled by the lack of knowledge and think "How will this ever work" with people not understanding. They don't understand analog color TVs yet they sell. They don't understand PCs worth a damn and everyone has one.....


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## FredB.

If your watching SD tv you are watching through a fog & if you can't tell the difference shame on you!!!


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## looney2ns

Heck, most of my neighbor's honestly don't see the differance.

Look at most peoples TV's, they don't even have the color adjusted on them correctly. (Glaring RED faces anyone) those people don't give a hoot about HD.


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## loudo

HDTV is a self sell, once you have been exposed to it. Since the beginning of the year we have had 4 friends or family members that have visited our house and watched our home theater HD setup, and have realized what they are missing by not having HD. All 4 of them have all been sold on it and have now purchased HDTVs for their homes.

It is the kind of thing that you don't need it until you see how nice it is. Then you have to have it.


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## Swheat

My brother-in-law, who is 63, just retired his old 60" 4:3 RPTV and bought a 50" plasma HD set. A Samsung. I asked him if he had gotten the HD package from his cble company and he said yes. And that his picture looked great.

When I went to visit him I saw his setup, and he is watching through the s-video connection. No, his receiver is not HD. He told me the sales person at Best Buy had convinced him to buy a $ 120 cable (monster HDMI?), but it would not fit into his cable box. He took it back.

The thing is that his picture does look many times better than what he had on his old TV. I am currently trying to get him to come to my house and check out a real HD picture, so he will have some frame of reference to make a decision to pay to get true HD.

He lives about 200 miles away outside of St. Louis.


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## Milominderbinder2

There is another quote in the article that is just as fun:

Best Buy says that "...close to 50 percent underestimate the cost..." of HD.

That's because they went to Best Buy. If they went to Fry's or Costco their estimate would have been right on!

Sorry. That was too easy.

It is actually great marketing if you are big box to try to create just enough fear in your clients that they are too dumb to buy without your help. Did it work on anyone here?

- Craig


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## loudo

Swheat said:


> When I went to visit him I saw his setup, and he is watching through the s-video connection. No, his receiver is not HD. He told me the sales person at Best Buy had convinced him to buy a $ 120 cable (monster HDMI?), but it would not fit into his cable box. He took it back.


It is amazing when you go to an electronics store to help a friend or relative purchase an HDTV, and the have to educate the salesperson, because they have no clue of what they are selling. Been there, done that, so many times with HDTV and computers.


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## tonyd79

Swheat said:


> My brother-in-law, who is 63, just retired his old 60" 4:3 RPTV and bought a 50" plasma HD set. A Samsung. I asked him if he had gotten the HD package from his cble company and he said yes. And that his picture looked great.
> 
> When I went to visit him I saw his setup, and he is watching through the s-video connection. No, his receiver is not HD. He told me the sales person at Best Buy had convinced him to buy a $ 120 cable (monster HDMI?), but it would not fit into his cable box. He took it back.
> 
> The thing is that his picture does look many times better than what he had on his old TV. I am currently trying to get him to come to my house and check out a real HD picture, so he will have some frame of reference to make a decision to pay to get true HD.
> 
> He lives about 200 miles away outside of St. Louis.


Okay. I got another story....

My brother was actually the first in my family and friends to get HD. He moved into a house with a big great room and everyone convinced him to buy a big TV for it. He had it all set up correctly the first time (amazingly through Circuit City and Comcast). The picture was beautiful.

He added a DVR about a year ago. I go to his house for Christmas and I am appalled by the horrible picture. What happened? Well, they took out his Hi Def cable tuner and put in a Hi Def DVR but they hooked him up all wrong and he was getting cropped SD.

He insisted the picture was great because it filled the screen. I went out and bought him a new HDMI cable and plugged it in and he finally admitted that he was watching crap for a couple months. (His wife said she thought something was wrong but didn't want to say....)

So, even those who have seen real HD can get confused.

But these examples show that people who know NOTHING about HD still want it. That is why the article is misleading. It makes one think that because consumers don't understand what it is and wind up with the wrong thing that they don't want it.

Let's face it. Analog TV had become plug and play. To the point that cable boxes were even disdained by many. HD and ditigal is not quite plug and play (well, it almost is but it takes some thought).


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## kevinturcotte

I actually don't know anybody (Offline lol) that as an HDTV, myself included.


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## djwww98

Doesn't surprise me at all. It's easy to forget the mentallity and intelligence of the general population. Go to the nearest Wal-mart, pick a check out line with 10 people in it and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was only one that could tell you what was actually necessary to watch HD in their home.
I work with a couple of guys who bought big flat screen HD televisions. When I asked them how they were getting their HD signal, they weren't sure. Turns out they aren't getting any. (This was 2 different people, 2 different and nearly identical conversations.) When I asked them if their TV's were HD, they weren't sure. (They were). They both said that movies looked good on them. But they really had no clue about HD after spending thousands of dollars on a big HD TV.


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## Tom Servo

kturcotte said:


> I actually don't know anybody (Offline lol) that as an HDTV, myself included.


I know a couple of people. All did at least some research. One ended up with a great big TV with poor programming from the cable company and the other got VOOM when it was new and had a bottom basement, Phillips tube HDTV that was out of cal from the box. And he never bothered to have it serviced.

With my father, he took his time and researched his options with the different kinds of TVs in his price range. I tried to help him with what I knew; between the two of us we had the bases covered. My help mostly was with service providers and hooking up all the cables. (I steered him to DirecTV, of course, on the premise that tons of HD would be available "soon" LOL.)

For the average joe who doesn't even know how to set a clock or program a remote, it is quite the uphill battle at the moment. And the big box leccy retailers aren't helping anyone one bit. They've got the "wow" factor covered by showing big TVs with super pictures, but beyond that it's all a crapshoot.


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## ams30gts

get those people to see HD on their tv at home and they will never go back


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## FlyBono24

loudo said:


> HDTV is a self sell, once you have been exposed to it. Since the beginning of the year we have had 4 friends or family members that have visited our house and watched our home theater HD setup, and have realized what they are missing by not having HD. All 4 of them have all been sold on it and have now purchased HDTVs for their homes.
> 
> It is the kind of thing that you don't need it until you see how nice it is. Then you have to have it.


That's why when I worked at a certain retailer we always had sporting events showing on our HD sets... once you see football or hockey in HD you want to have it in your home!


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## FlyBono24

djwww98 said:


> Doesn't surprise me at all. It's easy to forget the mentallity and intelligence of the general population. Go to the nearest Wal-mart, pick a check out line with 10 people in it and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was only one that could tell you what was actually necessary to watch HD in their home.


"General population" and "Wal*Mart" don't belong in the same sentence.... :lol:


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## nikescream

The people I know fall into two categories - 
1) They have an SD TV and have no real interest in HDTV
2) They have an HDTV but don't even have HD programming (except for one guy who finally added an antenna for OTA.)

The range of people includes people from age 23-60 from students to doctors. I think it's just whether or not your into the tech...How many people actually use more than 3 features of their $$$ phone? Or use their 100K cars to capacity. Same concept.


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## trixie05

Snoofie said:


> I can't tell you how many people that I have seen and talked to that think they have HD just because they purchased a widescreen TV. They are the same people that complain because the picture looks so much worse on their big TV than it did on their little TV. It is like talking to a brick wall to try and explain it to them though.


I here that!!LOL!!:lol:


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## FlyBono24

trixie05 said:


> I here that!!LOL!!:lol:


Yeah... I compare it to hooking up an 8-bit original NES system to a new 100" high-def screen... you can really see those pixels changing colors, eh? :lol: :lol:


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## Dave_S

That is an interesting survey. It seems that 90% of BB sales drones don't understand HDTV either!!


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## lee0539

If I listened to Best Buy TV sales reps on getting HDTV I would be confused too :lol:


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## loudo

kturcotte said:


> I actually don't know anybody (Offline lol) that as an HDTV, myself included.


I think a lot has to do with the area. I live in Florida and quite a few people around us have HD. I am in your state (Maine), this week, visiting family and you are correct, no one around here has HD. One thing I can attribute it to is that many sales people are not educated enough about HD to sell the product. Yesterday I went to a local BB with a family member to look at HDTVs. Having had HD for many years and knowing about it, I was amazed at how little the sales guy knew about HD.

It was tough last weekend watching football in SD. It really makes me appreciate my HD setup at home.


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## jasonblair

Define "big deal." I am a videophile, and I cannot wait for the new HD channels, but I'm not even sure that I would say "HD is a big deal in my life." Compared to what? Maintaining a happy marriage... having and raising children... making the mortgage payment... I'd imagine that in comparison to those things, HD is pretty much NOT a big deal.


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## Ken S

They have made HD a mess for the basic consumer.

Go to a store and you have...

Plasma, LCD, DLP, 1080i, 1920 x 1260, 720p, 480, Blu Ray, DVD HD, Digital TV, progressive, interlace, HDMI, Flat Screen? etc.

Turn on the TV and you have all sorts of new settings, Resolution? (or Format?) Aspect? 

and...most of the stuff you used to watch (SD) looks worse than it did on your old TV.

Couple that with poorly trained/shyster sales people at the big box stores and you get confused customers.

Not so long ago you bought at TV and plugged it in. Basically, the only decision you had to make was how big and what brand. There's also a cost factor. The "big" TV set in most homes (25" - 32") cost under $500. Now...people are seeing lots and lots of price tags closer to $2,000 and up. Couple that with "HD" fees from the providers as well.

Finally, at the end of the day a lot of the people I've talked to also say..."It's still the same programs".

The industry; resellers, content, providers and manufacturers have a lot of work to do in simplifying the purchase process, reducing the cost, making them easier to use and, most of all, improving the content itself.


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## Mike D-CO5

IF there were only one standard , say 1080p and everyone broad cast in that resolution, there would be less confusion. Everyone would know that if you buy an hdtv , no matter what kind , you would be watching high def and it would be standard. INstead we have 480p ed tv, 720p , 1080i , 1080p. NOt to mention every kind of tv on the market that confuses the sh*t out of everyone: dlp, tube top , flat screen , plasma, lcd . If you were the general public and you had done no research online, you would be confused as well.


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## chopperjc

Again we are the "fringe". HD is not that complicated but most people want plug and play. People buy gaming systems and do not care about rez, they plug into an analog and are happy. I am amazed sometimes but we are americans and unless obsessed about a subject we just want it to be easy. Hell ask me about something wrong with my car? I will take it to the dealer. I have no clue and in truth do not really want one.


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## MIAMI1683

I work right next to one. Has and HD LCD TV he just bought and standard cable. When I asked why he said " it looks good enough" and thats why they make 32 flavors right?


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## FlyBono24

The only solution is to educate the retail salespeople about all of this... where I worked we had an extensive training program so everyone knew about HD and different sources, etc... so that NO customer would leave without knowing exactly what they are getting.

But I've been to places where the video/audio salespeople didn't know anything about HD or even the TV's in general....


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## paulman182

The fact that HDTV is being pushed by Wal Mart is huge. That's the key to Mr. Joe Average's future adoption of the format.

However, I was in an area Wal Mart last week and they were showing football with an HD logo in the lower right--but it was SD!! And bad, RF-distributed SD. Snowy and wavy.

If Joe Average ever sees true HD on a good display every time he goes for dog food, WATCH OUT!


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## Tugboat

Another big problem for HD, in my view, is that people are charged extra to get most of it. If it's so "next gen" and all that, why does Directv charge people extra to get some HD channels? I can tell you, with most people, as soon as they see a $10 extra charge for programming they already get in SD, they are going to balk. If Directv has such faith in HD, why not just give it to people (apart from the usual pay channels like HBO, Showtime and Starz)? Does that $10 a month (plus $4.99 if you want those other channels not in SD) mean so much to their bottom-line? If so, it's going to be a long time before many subs make the move. My wife is a very smart person, and she could care less about HD. Does she think it looks better? Sure. Does she really care? No. She's hardly alone, despite what people on this forum and other av forums think.


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## Tugboat

Milominderbinder2 said:


> The article says that: "89 percent of people said they lacked a complete understanding of HDTV technology."
> 
> Is there anyone in this forum who believes they have a COMPLETE understanding of HDTV technology? Complete would be from compression algorithm theory to post production technique to emerging nanochannel technology. Complete means complete.
> 
> The 11% are a threat to the gene pool. :lol:
> 
> - Craig


Do you really believe they are talking about the esoteric aspects of HD in the survey? In this case, complete doesn't mean complete.


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## Tugboat

Misleading? While statistical surveys certainly can be skewed, the numbers in this survey speak for themselves. Most people you know doesn't constitute a scientific sample. What if I told you most people I know don't care about HD vs. SD? Sounds unbelieveable, right? But it's true. And yes, I help my friends who ask for help (in fact, I trade my knowledge for a free weekend at the beach every summer with some friends who own a beach house), but most are not anxious to spend even more on their TV habit - unless they are sports fans.



tonyd79 said:


> I think the article is misleading. Most people I know have HD or are planning on it. Sure, they have trouble understanding it. Who didn't at first. I was confused at first and wondered what to do with progressive scan and interlace and different resolutions until I found out that the TVs and other stuff pretty much just take care of it.
> 
> All most consumers need to know is what size TV they want and what they are paying. Sure, there are better and worse TVs but that is true for 19 inch analog sets, too. Then they need source. Cable, satellite, fiber, DVDs. It is all good.
> 
> They just need friends like us to lead them. My sister had no idea when she started. Her 36 inch analog set died in a thunderstorm and she said "Why not buy HD while I am at it." So, she MEASURED her TV across the BOTTOM then started to look at TVs in ads that were 27 and 32 inch HDTVs, thinking she was going bigger. Eventually we got her worked out and she has a very nice 55 inch LCD RPTV and now watches more TV than she ever did before. The moral? Most people had no idea what they were doing with analog TVs either yet they bought them.
> 
> Bottom line...buy pretty picture and spend what you can. All the technical stuff is unimportant to most and always will be. We here who are technofiles are appalled by the lack of knowledge and think "How will this ever work" with people not understanding. They don't understand analog color TVs yet they sell. They don't understand PCs worth a damn and everyone has one.....


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## jspicoli

looney2ns said:


> Heck, most of my neighbor's honestly don't see the differance.
> 
> Look at most peoples TV's, they don't even have the color adjusted on them correctly. (Glaring RED faces anyone) those people don't give a hoot about HD.


This is true... I go to their homes w/ their $5k Sonys and Phillips and can't believe how poor they look... They come over to mine and see the Westinghouse and Vizio labels and their mouths drop since I calibrate all my displays. I love telling them my 37" Vizio is a $499 refurb.


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## bmerrow

At least in my co-workers and friends, HD is a "once you got it, you never want to go back" experience. And, I am not a sports fan like many I know are, so this view extends way beyond sports. It is as big as black and white TV to color TV was (possibly bigger!).


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## DFDureiko

sometimes it is cluelessness, sometimes cheapness? My best friend bought a Bravia 42in but did not get a VIP622 until they were giving them away. Realitves got some sort of Rear projections HDTV, I told them to call DISH but they said it "cost more!" yes, it sort of galls me that people spend $$ on the HD but won't buy the content! Another friend bought a 1080p Sharp Aquios had the local satellite guy swtich her to DISH and a VIP622 (from DirecTV) as there were more channels for your money at Dish.
(now with two DISH's, and the HughesNet dish, her house looks like a CIA listening post)
Heres the VERY strange thing, and I am being completely honest. The picture on our 799.00 Olevia is BETTER than the 2500+ Sony and Sharp. go figure


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## The_Geyser

loudo said:


> HDTV is a self sell, once you have been exposed to it. Since the beginning of the year we have had 4 friends or family members that have visited our house and watched our home theater HD setup, and have realized what they are missing by not having HD. All 4 of them have all been sold on it and have now purchased HDTVs for their homes.
> 
> It is the kind of thing that you don't need it until you see how nice it is. Then you have to have it.


Same here. I know a lot of people that said they could care less, but once they see a setup in someone's home...


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## Jazzmo

I have a neighbor across the street who has 2 or 3 plasmas in his house. He also has DirecTV, he got it last year. He has a standard dish but he thinks he is getting an HD picture because his TV's are HDTV's. I wanted to tell him that he isn't getting an HD picture but I can't bring myself to. Last time DirecTV was at my house the installer told me it would not be possible for him to get HD because of tree issues. So I guess at some point he will find out on his own. If he is happy with his set-up I don't want to ruin it for him by telling him whats up.


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## Jazzmo

Dave_S said:


> That is an interesting survey. It seems that 90% of BB sales drones don't understand HDTV either!!


You are so right. When I bought my Phillips TV, I wanted an LCD with Ambilight. I knew they had them at BB, I looked it up online and it was at my local BB. When I got there the drone said that Phillips did not even make an LCD with Ambilight, only Plasmas. I took him over to an in-store computer and had him look it up. Of course they had an LCD with Ambilight in stock. He was trying not to look embarrassed when he found it.


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## Steve Robertson

I believe most people could care less about HDTV and the reason I think that is because most people think it is to complicated. I have friends that see my system and enjoy it but not 1 has ran out to buy a new tv as it is not that important to them.


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## bigtiii

Legends said:


> I know a lot of people that don't have a clue about HD. Many cable customers who have "digital" cable think they have HD. I try my best to explain to friends what they need to have HD.


My neighbor went out and bought a Sony LCD HDTV and just cuz he had an HDTV thought he was watching well......uh.........HDTV!!!!

He calls me over and says "you gotta see my new Sony HD!"......so I go over and he's bragging on the picture and I'm like "uh...dude this isn't an HD signal". "What?" he says. "Dwayne, this isn't HD." "What? It's an HD TV and look at that picture!" "Dwayne, I says...when you get an HD signal coming into that TV then call me back to see your new HD TV" :lol:

:rant:

This is the same guy who borrows all my tools. This is the same guy that borrows my 4 cycle Honda pressure washer, puts 2 cycle gas in it then calls me to ask me "hey what kind of gas are you supposed to use in this thing?" This is the guy that runs straight bleach through my pressure washer's brass pump through which bleach should NEVER be run. This is the guy who bought my old lawn mower and when it wouldn't crank he flooded the carb, took it apart, fought it for over an hour.......I walked over and he says "what' wrong?" I says "Dwayne gotta have fuel fire and air to make that thing crank....bang your air cleaner on the ground and when 2 years worth of grass and dirt you haven't bothered to clean out is removed give it a try." So he does.....it cranks on the first pull.......he's thinks I'm a genius......I think he's stupid.

This is also the guy who gets into 30K of credit card debt, consolidates his bills......then he and his wife realize they are saving 800.00 amonth so hey, why not make a good financial decision and get you a new Harley and her a new boob job.

Couple of big boobs indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK OK I'm calm now :grin: Thanks for letting me vent.


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## johnnytex

As a old and wise English television producer one said "A bad TV show in HD is still a bad show!"


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## heavyobjects

This just in:

89% of Best Buy sales reps don't fully understand HD nor do they care if you have budgeted appropriately for it.


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## Cybercowboy

I could write a book on this subject. :lol:

2 years I decided to take the HD plunge. I work at home and sit in front of a computer for hours on end with nobody looking over my shoulder. I researched various types of display technology, available programming packages in my area, asks tons of questions on various forums, and actually found myself helping others before I even got my first HDTV. I wasn't in any hurry at this time.

About 6 months into this process I got the HD cable DVR from my cable provider. I liked the DVR and figured when I got a new TV, I'd be set. First I needed to figure out how to rearrange everything from the old entertainment center to connections to new furniture for the living room. It was a major project!

I bought my 61" DLP online from Amazon. This floored the people I mentioned this to. You ordered your TV _online_? Really? Wow, that doesn't sound very smart. I just shrugged and said that I order thousands of dollars of stuff online every year for my business. This is just a piece of electronics, albeit a large one.

TV arrived, new entertainment center, new DVD player, new cables from Monoprice, and I hooked it all up. Yup, I got HD alright. About 8 channels worth. Yippee. That was a bit of a letdown. So I got an XBox 360 to at least get some more pretty pictures on my TV.

So, you can see, even with somebody who knows how all this works and takes _a lot_ of time to bring HDTV into their home, it is still a bit hard to justify based on content. And I'm a sports fan! I had D* NFL Sunday Ticket (SD, old 2-LNB dish and ancient receivers) all this time, and couldn't justify in my mind going HD on D* for just a few games. But then when I heard about the new HD channels coming I decided to do a big switch. Dropped cable, upgraded my service, have Superfan now, got an HD-A20 HD-DVD player, and am anxiously awaiting the new HD channels.

Why I'm writing all this is that of all the people I know, I'm the only one who has put this much thought into this process. My brother is a close second, and my father has actually done pretty well getting HD and some HD content on his lone HDTV. Outside of my family, there are very few people who have the magic combination of HDTV, HD sources, HD content. Why? Because it takes a _lot_ of work to get it all just so. It does, it really does. Sure it's fun work, but perhaps not for everybody.


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## MikeR7

mjwagner said:


> That is not a conversation that is appropriate here....:nono2:


And besides that it is untrue.:eek2:


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## Cybercowboy

And yes I too know a person who has for years had a wide-screen TV and never watches HD on it. This was justifiable up until around 2004 because his TV wasn't a true HD TV, just wide-screen projection - in which he stretched everything. Yuck.

Then he upgraded to a nice Mitsubishi rear-projection CRT HDTV. He got the HD variety of Dish Network. They even tried to connect an OTA antenna for his setup. All this was done by a local mom-and-pop TV/Stereo store. They showed him how to use the system, calibrated the display, and left. I was there when they did the final install and calibration even. Nice HD picture coming over Dish Network.

Since then I've been to his house many times, but usually not to watch TV. His wife watches Lifetime almost exclusively and her channel list does not include a single HD channel, so she's not watching any. Last year there was a Chiefs game on and he was watching it in SD. I said surely he gets that in HD, at least on OTA CBS HD. He couldn't remember how to get the OTA feeds to show up. We putzed with it but it looked like a wire was loose somewhere or the antenna had fell from it's mount or something. He didn't care though, the SD game looked great to him. All nice and stretched out on his 65" display. :bang


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## jpl

I'm sure there are lots of these types of stories out there. I have a bunch of my own. I think for many people it comes down to a couple things:

1) They just have no interest in learning the technology. It's not due to stupidity in most cases - just a lack of interest. One such person is my wife - not stupid by any stretch of the imagination, but she has zero interest in any of this stuff.

2) Desire for simplicity - that plug-and-play comment I read on here I think is pretty much spot-on. Years ago TVs weren't really plug-and-play - every component you added required you to break out the screwdriver and mess with the UHF and VHF screws (remember those?). But the number of components you could add were really limited. HD ain't there yet - it's still very much in a state of flux. And the reason for that is the fact that the prices are still pretty high. Someone on here mentioned that if we had one standard things would be much easier. No doubt that's true. But the reason there are multiple standards is because of the price. These TV companies will produce TVs to fill those niches in the price ranges, to make the TV more available to consumers. That TV too expensive? No problem, we'll just give you one without a tuner - that'll knock some of the money off. Even EDTV was created out of such a mentality - it was designed to give consumers an ability to get some feel for HD-like technology (digital, progressive scan) without spending $5,000 on an HD TV.

Eventually this will all work it's way out. EDTVs are on the way out precisely because they've outlived their usefulness. The price of HDs have come down so far that there's almost no price advantage with going with an EDTV. The same will happen across the board. As prices come down, the features will stabilize.

3) People just want to watch TV. They would LIKE to have that HD picture, but to them they're just happy with the picture that they're getting. There's nothing wrong with this, btw. Getting that pure, crisp picture just isn't all that important to them.

4) The fact that people believe they need to pay extra for HD programming really does stick in the craw of many. Ironically, if they understood the technology better they'd realize that they can get most of what they want (locals in HD, e.g.) without having to shell out any more money at all.

5) Overload - as many have pointed out, there's SO many things to consider that it can easily get overwhelming to many. As standards get ironed out, this will simplify quite a bit as well.


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## viztiz

SteveEJ said:


> About 22 years ago I went to a computer programming school for work and a student from Japan was there. He asked why our TV was so poor.. Long story short, they have had HD TV for a very long time! I decided way back then I wanted it too!


15 years ago I took a media arts class in college and while discussing different video standards talked about how Japan had just completed converting entirely to HD and we should expect it to do the same here in 3 to 5 years. I think it was 5 years later before I even saw a real HD TV for the first time.


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## katzeye

My Brother-in-Law has a 65" rear projection 1080p set hooked up to a 1lnb D* dish. I have not had the heart to tell him that he is missing out. 
I admit that a little over a year ago I knew nothing about HD, I couldn't afford it so I ignored everything. Things have changed so now I am in knee deep in HD and loving it. 
So the last time I went to visit, it was for the birth of their new son. My sister-in-Law was watching TV and I realized that they don' t have HD, and at one point I asked him if he had HD service and he said "yes" (This was before I went outside and looked at his dish). I have to assume that he is the classic, has the big 16:9 tv and assumes it is HD. So I decided to not say anything because he was a little busy, with the new baby and the other 2 running around the house, and the family filtering through. 
We are going for a visit this weekend, and I have to tell him, but I do feel guilty don't want to come across as a jerk.
How do we tell people that they are missing out without coming across as a know it all?


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## primetime

I never understood why EDTV's were even produced. About 4 years ago I finished off my basement and set up a 60" projection LCD and subscribed to HDTV right away. My assistant at work and her husband own a delivery service and were over delivering the new couch and chairs for the room and were amazed at my TV picture. I said it is an HD picture and they immediately commented that they had HD and it didn't look that good. I went over and looked at their setup and sure enough they had some garbage EDTV they bought at Wal Mart and had no idea it wasn't HD. I explained the difference but felt bad for them because they obviously spent a lot of money for their situation on the TV and ended up getting something that wasn't what they hoped or thought they bought. As someone else mentioned EDTVs are disappearing and in my mind rightfully so, they make it so easy to trick an uninformed customer into thinking they are getting a deal on an HDTV. 

As a futher aside, my wife falls into that category of watchers who like HD when it is on but doesn't really care. The only time she says she notices is when sports are on, but hey at least she likes football and baseball.


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## islesfan

I too have to say that most people I know have no interest in HDTV. They know it is "coming" but they seem to see it as a fad that may pass. Some people just cannot seem to become informed. You try to talk to them, but after 15 seconds, the eyes glaze over and they go back to talking about what they just saw on Opera or what so and so did to so and so...


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## Milominderbinder2

Tugboat, in your quest to rid the world of HD,  I think we may have found the most compelling reason:

_*HD is like a bikini. It's not meant for everyone*._

- Craig


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## Lord Vader

While I was the first one in my family to get TIVOs, including the HR10-250 HD TIVO, my father was the first one to get an HDTV (I had my HD TIVOs before I had my HDTVs, believe it or not). My father now has both an HR20-700 and an HR10-250.

What amazes me is that most of their season passes are set to record the _SD local_ channels and _not_ the OTA HD ones on the HR10-250 or the HD ones on the HR20-700! For some reason, they think that "CH2 or CH5" in the guide means "Channel 2 or Channel 5, etc., and that means it's the channel they're supposed to record. I tried explaining to them that the "CH" in the local channel title means "Chicago" just like "NY2" would mean New York 2, etc.

Why on Earth would someone record the SD feed when an HD feed is available? 

On top of this, with both an HR10-250 and an HR20-700 connected to their HDTV, they record many things but _*still watch everything live*_! Unbelievable! I've explained to them how I never watch anything live anymore, except for certain sporting events, and that if I wanted to watch something close to its original start time, I'd just tune in 20-30 minutes after the start time and play the recording, just so I don't have to watch the frickin' commercials.

I can't tell you how many times I've called my folks' house only to hear my mom yell to me, "We can't talk now. We're watching _Dancing with the Stars_!" or some other show, to which I respond, "Well, hit the pause button and you can talk," or "Aren't you recording it? Just watch it later." My mom just yells at me that she's missing her show and then hangs up the phone on me.

Of course, this is the same person who can't get her VCR to stop flashing "12:00".


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## laxcoach

We have hd in our bedroom and in our great room. I have to say the HR20 does a pretty good job upconverting some shows. Family Guy on toon network looks great compared to a normal tv/tuner. That is part of this battle.

I'm at odds with my wife constantly because she sets up recordings on the old SD channels instead of HD. Why? She's used to the channel number and "it looks the same to me". egads. I have 2 HR20s in my great room and tuned them to to the SD/HD for the same content. Paused both at the same time and made her look as I flipped between them.

"ok. ok. you made your point. it is better. but, i don't really care." That's it in a nutshell.


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## Lord Vader

This thread got me to thinking (which is dangerous indeed)--we need a separate thread on this forum to discuss the humorous and stupid things associated with HD. Maybe I'll start it in a different section so we don't take this off-track too much elsewhere.


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## n3ntj

I think 90% of people have no idea what Digital TV and HDTV is really about and the difference b/w the two.


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## tomcrown1

tonyd79 said:


> I think the article is misleading. Most people I know have HD or are planning on it. Sure, they have trouble understanding it. Who didn't at first. I was confused at first and wondered what to do with progressive scan and interlace and different resolutions until I found out that the TVs and other stuff pretty much just take care of it.
> 
> All most consumers need to know is what size TV they want and what they are paying. Sure, there are better and worse TVs but that is true for 19 inch analog sets, too. Then they need source. Cable, satellite, fiber, DVDs. It is all good.
> 
> They just need friends like us to lead them. My sister had no idea when she started. Her 36 inch analog set died in a thunderstorm and she said "Why not buy HD while I am at it." So, she MEASURED her TV across the BOTTOM then started to look at TVs in ads that were 27 and 32 inch HDTVs, thinking she was going bigger. Eventually we got her worked out and she has a very nice 55 inch LCD RPTV and now watches more TV than she ever did before. The moral? Most people had no idea what they were doing with analog TVs either yet they bought them.
> 
> Bottom line...buy pretty picture and spend what you can. All the technical stuff is unimportant to most and always will be. We here who are technofiles are appalled by the lack of knowledge and think "How will this ever work" with people not understanding. They don't understand analog color TVs yet they sell. They don't understand PCs worth a damn and everyone has one.....


What a PC---I have a mac does that count???


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## Milominderbinder2

Tugboat said:


> Another big problem for HD, in my view, is that people are charged extra to get most of it....


TVs with extra features cost more. The XL version of a car costs more than the base model. Sump pumps with bigger motors cost more.

Can you name any product that does not cost more to get the model with more features?

Sears is credited with defining this marketing cornerstone as "Good, Better, Best" Marketing.

Can you name any society where the different feature bundles all cost the same? OK, other than the old Soviet Union but even then it was only on paper. OK, other than the HR20 deal for $19.

From a marketing standpoint, if you do not charge for a feature, people tend to see no value in it.

To sum up capitalism: Money good. 

- Craig


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## kenglish

I haven't seen an HDTV really work in any store.

They all just show some "HDTV is coming", "HDTV is fabulous", "You gotta get it" loop all day. I still haven't seen one that shows me what I'll get when I get it home....no local stations, no EPG, no way to see how fast it changes channels, no way to tell how the captioning looks, no way to tell if it gets multiple audio channels,....

Many don't even have info on ATSC vs QAM, or whether they have cable card capability.

Most stores only emphasize the "Big Picture" aspects, and not the rest of the story.

I'll buy one when I see it work.


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## Nick

kenglish said:


> I'll buy one when I see it work.


If you haven't seen HD yet, then that's probably your fault, and I don't really believe you haven't seen it
yet in the first place. If you'll stop frequenting the big box stores and go to a real home theater retailer
in your area, you'll see real HD.

You can take it from me, it's real. I've enjoyed HD for over four years, and I now have two HD displays,
one in my living room (home theater ), one in my office and I'm considering a third for my bedroom.

Having said that, now tell us, what's the _real_ reason you haven't upgraded to HD???


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## kenglish

No space in my 480 square foot apartment.

And, I have a few that I do watch at work!  

But, still, I won't pay out any money to buy a set (not even the 150 of them that we need to buy for work next year) until I see one work the way it should (on an OTA signal, not just a component feed off of satellite).


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## Tugboat

You obviously don't understand the concept of making something a commodity.

If HD is so important (and the providers want people to adopt it ASAP), then give it away. It's not like HBO, which is an optional programming choice (HD or SD). This is supposed to be the future of TV, no? Did the broadcast networks charge more for programming in color back when B&W was the predominant delivery tech? No. They just convinced people to buy color TVs and provided the programming free of charge (except for having to watch commercials). They also invested in the gear needed to deliver color TV. Same hold true here. Give me a break, cying crocodile tears for Directv, Comcast and the rest.

For the most part, people are sick of being nickel-and-dimed to death by everyone out there selling entertainment.

Sure, you want frills or luxury, you pay extra. But if Directv and the cable providers want people to watch HD, then charging them for it is only going to slow down the parade. Pretty basic economics to me.

I don't understand your earlier post about me wanting to get rid of HD, either. THe point of this is people are confused by HD, and they also don't like the fact they have to pay another $10-$15 a month to get some channels they already get in SD. The color tv v. B&W tv analogy holds up here. It's not programming per se, it's the technology used to deliver it. I guess since Directv doesn't make HDTVs (not yet, anyway), they don't think people should get HD gratis. Fine, it's going to take a lot longer to sell it, because people don't really care all that much in the first place.

Oh, I have HD. I've paid for it, because $10 isn't a deal killer for me. But it is annoying to look at the bill and see all those ancillary charges above and beyond the $99 a month I pay for Directv's top service. Sure, I have a choice. I can vote with my wallet. Capitalism is one thing. Gouging consumers is another. We're not talking about socialism, we're talking about smart marketing. Directv's decision to charge extra for HD, to me, is only going to retard its growth among subs (the ones who refuse to pay another dime).



Milominderbinder2 said:


> TVs with extra features cost more. The XL version of a car costs more than the base model. Sump pumps with bigger motors cost more.
> 
> Can you name any product that does not cost more to get the model with more features?
> 
> Sears is credited with defining this marketing cornerstone as "Good, Better, Best" Marketing.
> 
> Can you name any society where the different feature bundles all cost the same? OK, other than the old Soviet Union but even then it was only on paper. OK, other than the HR20 deal for $19.
> 
> From a marketing standpoint, if you do not charge for a feature, people tend to see no value in it.
> 
> To sum up capitalism: Money good.
> 
> - Craig


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## Tom Servo

Nick said:


> If you'll stop frequenting the big box stores and go to a real home theater retailer
> in your area, you'll see real HD.


Your statement may be valid for the other poster since he's in Salt Lake City, but out here in Scratch Ankle, Mississippi it's a different matter. There's one home theater/car stereo place here in town, and they show stretched 4:3 analogue cable TV content. I doubt they'd get any HD from any local channel even with an outdoor antenna. I get MPB HD some nights, and then only if I stand in the right place. 

My first taste of real HD had come from a big box -- Tweeter. They had an HD loop on hard drive. Later I saw Dish Network HD at a Sears, then finally Best Buy beat them all with Blu Ray on a TV; in fact all the BB's around B'ham and Memphis have at least one TV on a Blu Ray DVD - it looks really good. And expensive_!_



Tugboat said:


> Oh, I have HD. I've paid for it, because $10 isn't a deal killer for me. But it is annoying to look at the bill and see all those ancillary charges above and beyond the $99 a month I pay for Directv's top service. Sure, I have a choice. I can vote with my wallet. Capitalism is one thing. Gouging consumers is another. We're not talking about socialism, we're talking about smart marketing. Directv's decision to charge extra for HD, to me, is only going to retard its growth among subs (the ones who refuse to pay another dime).


You know, it is almost understandable that they charge extra because the company has tried to position themselves as an upmarket alternative to cable. "These are the high rollers - $10 a month more ain't that big of a deal to them." Dish, on the other hand, charges more yet shoots for the "budget satellite" category by offering lower prices. That doesn't make sense at all.

But I agree with you guys. If they want it to really take off, it's gonna have to be a freebie. Then again, DVRs are getting more popular despite the stupid $5/month surcharge on them, right?


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