# DirecTV and TNS Media to measure viewing



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

In press release at http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1102771&highlight=

_DIRECTV, Inc. (NasdaqGSTV), the nation's leading satellite television service provider with more than 16.6 million customers, and TNS Media Research, a division of TNS providing internet, TV, and radio audience measurement worldwide, are developing a national opt-in audience measurement panel of 100,000 DIRECTV subscribers - the largest US national audience measurement panel ever.

With plans to introduce TNS DIRECTView in 2008, TNS Media Research will measure the total viewing, including the live and time-shifted (DVR) viewing of programs and commercials at a second-by-second interval, of 100,000 representative households within DIRECTV's national footprint. 
_

Since this is an optional system I'm just wondering how many people would be interested in participating in this? It comes down to privacy concerns vs. having input on what shows people watch which might help keep a show you like on the air.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Sign Me up... the moment the signup window is available.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

if it means that programming could be potentially be changed because they are seeing what people actually watch, SIGN ME UP!


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## BGreen965 (Aug 12, 2007)

I'd be glad to participate... I've always felt that Nielson (especially in small markets where diaries are kept) ratings are flawed.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

The rating system today takes such a small sample of actual viewers, can not see how it can be very accurate. They say it is statistically accurate within a few percentage points, but I think that is a bunch of c**p. I have never known or heard of any one that is participating in any Nielson tv viewer survey, or have the so called box attached to the TV, if they do that any more.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll tell you why I would actually LIKE to do this... 

as Pink Fairy said, maybe I could actually make a difference and make TV a better experience for me and people like me. Also (as some of you may have noticed) I like being able to voice my opinion.


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## Pink Fairy (Dec 28, 2006)

(Didn't notice at alllll....!)


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## Redlinetire (Jul 24, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> The rating system today takes such a small sample of actual viewers, can not see how it can be very accurate. They say it is statistically accurate within a few percentage points, but I think that is a bunch of c**p. I have never known or heard of any one that is participating in any Nielson tv viewer survey, or have the so called box attached to the TV, if they do that any more.


For a 'normal' distribution (statistically speaking) you don't really need that large a sample size to get a sense of the true distribution. Taking more samples just confirms what you already know, adding cost but very little in terms of increased accuracy of understanding your underlying population.

So for example you can spend an extra $500,000 to move your statistical accuracy from 3.5% to 3.0% which probably isn't worth it given that people's viewing habits are pretty consistent.

And BTW, I was a "Nielson" family although that was almost 20 years ago. We kept track of viewing in special notebooks.


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## bhelton71 (Mar 8, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> The rating system today takes such a small sample of actual viewers, can not see how it can be very accurate. They say it is statistically accurate within a few percentage points, but I think that is a bunch of c**p. I have never known or heard of any one that is participating in any Nielson tv viewer survey, or have the so called box attached to the TV, if they do that any more.


They still use the box - I haven't ever had one of those though - but I have done the books a couple of times - as late as last year. They only send out the books a couple of times per year - I think it is quarterly. It has to be a pain to count and prone to error - you have to do some weird annotations to indicate time shifted programs.


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## msmith (Apr 23, 2002)

SIGN ME UP!

I want the programmers to think that everybody likes the same TV shows that I do.


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm in


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## Vegas (Mar 2, 2006)

Sign me up.

Maybe we could get some of the crap replaced with decent programing!


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## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

How would they measure rating for shows that we DVR? Would they be able to tell that we don't watch commercials?


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## dshu82 (Jul 6, 2007)

I have no issues with this, especially if they can tell I am watching HD or SD....


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Perhaps it would help them understand the significant impact of DVRs. There are shows that I watch regularly for which I have no idea of the schedule. I don't care when they come on. I watch them when I get a chance.

The only impact their scheduling has on me is contention over two tuners. This is rarely a problem with cable shows but constantly a problem with network shows.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm in.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

Sign me up too, but there is one important question: Will we need to put the DVR in standby when it is not being watched? I dont want to log my locals overnight list of infomercials as being watched.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Sign me up!

Now maybe the shows we like will quit getting canceled.

Mike


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Sign me up as well.


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## sean10780 (Oct 16, 2007)

Sign me up!


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## Zepes (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm in


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## mdgolf (Apr 14, 2006)

You all realize this has NOTHING to do with programming...it's about ad dollars and viewership/listenership of commercial positions.

My guess is that time-shifted viewership, skipping commercials with DVR's, PPV, On Demand, and Premium Packages like NFLST will all be part of the service that TNS will offer for sale to the Advertising community at some point.

The data will be addressable by zip and phone for targeting and demographic purposes.


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## FireMedic8039 (Dec 24, 2007)

Im for it. As long as it isnt used for new package pricing on the most watched channels.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Why can't the information be used for programming?

If it is found that a popular show.... is DVRed by a lot of consumers, and watched at a later date...

Then they could possible investigate options to run that show again at a later time slot (even in the early morning hours) to still get consumers access to the shows.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

This will be valuable data for programming and other related decisions (based on real user information, as opposed to perceived user habits).

Count me in.


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## mdgolf (Apr 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why can't the information be used for programming?
> 
> If it is found that a popular show.... is DVRed by a lot of consumers, and watched at a later date...
> 
> Then they could possible investigate options to run that show again at a later time slot (even in the early morning hours) to still get consumers access to the shows.


It could...but that isn't the goal of the service. The goal is a better universe, with deeper demographic data that agencies and media buyers will use to buy and post analyze their ad buys, and to hold media outlets more accountable for what they deliver in terms of rating points.

I spent 10 years with TNS and have been in the industry for 20.


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## ccr1958 (Aug 29, 2007)

i voted i don't want to be watched by big bro...
if it has anything to do with being able to see
what i fast forward past then i can see this having
the commercials in the future fixed to where you
can't fast forward past them....or more of them
or whatever....


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Please sign me up. I *WANT* someone to know that I watch Firefly and Chuck and any number of other shows that seem to get cancelled all the time.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This will be valuable data for programming and other related decisions (based on real user information, as opposed to perceived user habits).
> 
> Count me in.


Like they're not already doing it.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

ccr1958 said:


> i voted i don't want to be watched by big bro...
> if it has anything to do with being able to see
> what i fast forward past then i can see this having
> the commercials in the future fixed to where you
> ...


I would hope these folks are smart enough to figure it out that folks have been doing that since the days of VCR's, they don't need any backdoor software to tell them that.


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## ccr1958 (Aug 29, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Please sign me up. I *WANT* someone to know that I watch Firefly and Chuck and any number of other shows that seem to get cancelled all the time.


true...but at least they were just estimating...nothing
in stone back then

Sorry....quoted wrong post..................


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## ccr1958 (Aug 29, 2007)

RAD said:


> I would hope these folks are smart enough to figure it out that folks have been doing that since the days of VCR's, they don't need any backdoor software to tell them that.


true but at least they were estimating...nothing in
stone back then...


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

I’m about to open myself up to a barrage of arguments but I think someone has to point out a few things to all those who are going to quickly rush out and join.

Yes this might just be a survey but keep in mind a few things.

1) A Record is being kept of everything you watch, along with the info they already have, meaning your Name and Address.

2) This information will most likely be kept long term, so who knows what it can be used for years from now!

Just a few of the things I could learn from knowing a persons TV viewing habits.

Are you a Democrat or Republican (Based on the Debates you watch I would know)

Do you Watch Pornography and to what Level and Type 

Are you potential Environmentalist?

Do you have any Weird special Interests?

3) It is almost certain that such records could be subpoenaed into a court of law by the state, if they are needed to help establish one's location, or to be used to establish one's affinity or connection to certain subject matter.

4) If these records get abused like so many others have in the past, you may one day find yourself on the End of targeted Advertising.

5) These records may one day be used as standard fare to profile people for Job suitability. eg. If you know the person watches a whole bunch of UFO shows do you want him working for a Military contractor with security clearance? Do you want a Elementary school teacher who watches 20 hours of porn per week.

I am not saying that any of these things are going to happen, nor do I think the Intent of this Survey is bad or has any other motives. I just want people to think about that fact that once these kinds of records are out there they get stored and saved and will most likely eventually be sold or lent out for other purposes.

IMHO anybody who has that Ethernet cable hooked up is already potentially having there records kept.

Flame suite on and Ready..


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> I'm about to open myself up to a barrage of arguments but I think someone has to point out a few things to all those who are going to quickly rush out and join.
> 
> Yes this might just be a survey but keep in mind a few things.
> 
> ...


So?

I don't watch anything that I am not legaly able to watch...
I want the TV people to know what I watch, as I am tired of the shows I enjoy are getting bumped for a 17th season of survivor which I have watched like 3 episodes on in the first 16 seasons.

As for an elementry teacher that watches 20 hours of porn...
What makes you think that isn't happening now?

So long as it doesn't affect their performance at work, or how they teach my children.... so what?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

dreadlk said:


> I'm about to open myself up to a barrage of arguments but I think someone has to point out a few things to all those who are going to quickly rush out and join.
> 
> Yes this might just be a survey but keep in mind a few things.
> 
> ...


Ahhh, who cares. I certainly don't. I'd be more concerned about companies tracking everything I buy with a credit card.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

I opted in to the DirecTV / Tivo data collection that they started a few years ago. I'd opt in to this as well. Anything that lets the broadcasters know what we watch (so they can produce more similar content) is good by me. 

I think the problem about things left on indefinitely can be overcome. They did indicate second by second tracking. While there may be some fringe, if a key isn't pressed for some period of time, you can assume that the viewer is no longer in front of the tube.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

It would be nice if gathering your Show preferences was the only thing it was going to be used for, but who knows.

As for the Elementary School teacher, would you want your kids being taught by a teacher who watches 20 hours of Porn per week and all his porn favorites start with titles like Barely Legal or " Hot and Young". I know I would not! Most likely with this kind of info, schools in the future will use it to help determine applicants suitability, Some will call it a Win for us but who knows what other Job Scenarios this tool might get used for. Will a big Oil company want to hire a guy who watches Mostly Discovery Channel and NGC? Or will they be afraid he will be a potential whistle blower.



Earl Bonovich said:


> So?
> 
> I don't watch anything that I am not legaly able to watch...
> I want the TV people to know what I watch, as I am tired of the shows I enjoy are getting bumped for a 17th season of survivor which I have watched like 3 episodes on in the first 16 seasons.
> ...


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Wouldn't bother me - I've participated in the past for Neilson and Arbitron.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> It would be nice if gathering your Show preferences was the only thing it was going to be used for, but who knows.
> 
> As for the Elementary School teacher, would you want your kids being taught by a teacher who watches 20 hours of Porn per week and there all his porn favorites start with titles like Barely Legal, Hot and Young. I know I would not! Most likely with this kind of info, in the future schools will use it to help determine applicants suitability, Some will call it a Win for us but who knows what other Job Scenarios this tool might get used for. Will a big Oil company want to hire a guy who watches Mostly Discovery Channel and NGC? Or will they be afraid he will be a potential whistle blower.


To assume that someone that watch's 20 hours of porn... will do anything to hurt a child... is IMHO... is just unwarranted stereo-typing of someone that has done nothing illegal.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

So if you where in charge of hiring teachers at an elementary school and this kind of information was right in front of you on a PC, you would still hire the guy versus the other Guy who did not watch any porn and did not seem to have an affinity for Porn with Young people in it?

If you worked at Exxon would you Hire a Guy to handle South American drilling operations if he watched every tree hugging, Whale Loving show on Discovery Channel?

I mean Earl come on,, When has people's personal information ever been in the Hands of large corporations and been used to Benefit the people and not the corporation?? 
I don't even pretend to know 10% of what this could be used for in the future, all I do know is that I don't want any corporation to know what I am doing in my Home minute by minute.



Earl Bonovich said:


> To assume that someone that watch's 20 hours of porn... will do anything to hurt a child... is IMHO... is just unwarranted stereo-typing of someone that has done nothing illegal.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

So in a hypothetical world... were there are truely the cloans of people... were there is absolutely nothing different between the people?

I would be more worried about the person I didn't know more about (honestly)... as they could be very good at hiding their path/steps... 

Again... I personally feel that 20 hours of porn, so long as the person is viewing legal content... should have ZERO impact...

If someone isn't gong to hire me because of what I watch on TV during my private time... then that is a company I don't want to be part of.

As for your other example....
If the person is qualified to do the job... and is the best candidate.... sure.

Again... to automatically assume anything about what a person watches on TV... is just not right.


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> The rating system today takes such a small sample of actual viewers, can not see how it can be very accurate. They say it is statistically accurate within a few percentage points, but I think that is a bunch of c**p. I have never known or heard of any one that is participating in any Nielson tv viewer survey, or have the so called box attached to the TV, if they do that any more.


in the recent past, certain Tivo subscribers were part of the Neilson pool, and the info came off of the Tivo boxes.


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## nikwax (Jan 1, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> I'm about to open myself up to a barrage of arguments but I think someone has to point out a few things to all those who are going to quickly rush out and join.
> 
> Yes this might just be a survey but keep in mind a few things.
> 
> ...


you left out the part where your phone calls, email, and all web traffic (including forums like this) are in play. Kind of late to try to shut the barn doors now.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> To assume that someone that watch's 20 hours of porn... will do anything to hurt a child... is IMHO... is just unwarranted stereo-typing of someone that has done nothing illegal.


OK...I was going to stay completely away from this topic, but I just can't leave this kind of statement unrebutted.

Would you feel the same about someone watching 20 hours per week of pets being mutilated? (keep in mind, watching isn't illegal).

Watching something is *participation*, it only varies by degree, from a moral point of view. (IMHO) What you participate in says a *lot* about you. I would not want a regular viewer of pornography around my kids, period. I would not want a viewer of "white supremicist" videos around my kids. I would not want promiscuous teachers, or ministers, or priests around my kids, even if their fellow participants aren't kids. I would not want racists, xenophobes, or other maladjusted people teaching my kids. In most cases, one has no idea....but if people volunteer information and expect me to be all "everything is ok that isn't a crime", guess again.

If blatant illegality is a person's only benchmark for being concerned with who spends time with one's children, then more's the pity.

Character is not defined by a lack of criminality, and I don't want the bar set that low for our most vulnerable people.

It also might be a good idea to consult the research directed at the correlation between watching a lot of porn on a regular basis, and illegal sexual activity. It might raise some concerns.

OK...now I feel better. ...and I'm done with this particular aspect of the thread. The original assertion was specious at best, and I don't want to participate in an extended thread on PC-Everything Legal is OK vs. the Sex Police. It would have been better to avoid the entire business in the first place.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Thaedron said:


> I opted in to the DirecTV / Tivo data collection that they started a few years ago. I'd opt in to this as well. Anything that lets the broadcasters know what we watch (so they can produce more similar content) is good by me.
> 
> I think the problem about things left on indefinitely can be overcome. They did indicate second by second tracking. While there may be some fringe, if a key isn't pressed for some period of time, you can assume that the viewer is no longer in front of the tube.


I received a letter from AC Nielsen a few years ago about the DirecTV/TiVo program. My wife did not want to do it.


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## mikey6719 (Sep 11, 2007)

For $4.99 a month, I'd love to help!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hasan said:


> OK...I was going to stay completely away from this topic, but I just can't leave this kind of statement unrebutted.
> 
> Would you feel the same about someone watching 20 hours per week of pets being mutilated? (keep in mind, watching isn't illegal).
> 
> ...


Fair enough.... we can discuss that in another thread... another time.


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## Splendor (Apr 17, 2007)

YES!!! I'm tried of excellent shows being canceled.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

This is going to help one bit! 
The problem is not that Networks don't know a good show from a bad one, they already know that from the test screenings, they don't need us! 
They just have a hard time calculating if they can make a bigger profit on a lousy show with a low budget or a good show with a big budget.



Splendor said:


> YES!!! I'm tried of excellent shows being canceled.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Well Said! My feelings exactly.

And I know that if I had this kind of data at my disposal, I would certainly use it to screen everyone I was hiring or even associating with.

No matter what kind of disclaimer you may later read about this offer, people should keep it in mind that stuff like this always gets used for other purposes and be carefull before you rush out and embrace this.



hasan said:


> OK...I was going to stay completely away from this topic, but I just can't leave this kind of statement unrebutted.
> 
> Would you feel the same about someone watching 20 hours per week of pets being mutilated? (keep in mind, watching isn't illegal).
> 
> ...


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

This is a very active quality improvement measure if you ask me, let 'er rip!


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

dshu82 said:


> I have no issues with this, especially if they can tell I am watching HD or SD....


No doubt! I'm totally HD-ing it now.


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## Jarda (Mar 9, 2007)

:allthumbs


MicroBeta said:


> Sign me up!
> 
> Now maybe the shows we like will quit getting canceled.
> 
> Mike


:allthumbs Well said. I'm in

Jarad


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

I'd opt in... We could then prove we prefer HD shows and HD commercials over SD. The numbers could also be skewed with by LIN channels not having an agreement with DirectTV for HD Channels.


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## sraider (Aug 6, 2006)

Sign me up also


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## pdawg17 (Jul 17, 2006)

If it'll keep shows like Journeyman on the air I'll do it...I don't know about all of you, but why stay up until 11PM to watch a show that I can watch anytime with a DVR? If this method will weight DVR viewing more heavily I'll do it in a heartbeat...


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## steverichmond (Oct 11, 2007)

All in here. I think it is a good way to improve programming. Better programming= more enjoyment!


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

While I wasn't about to go as far as dreadlk did, two things crossed my mind as I started reading this thread.

The second one was the situation where the government wanted to subpoena Google, I think it was, for their search data records. dreadlk just ran with that whole thing.

The first thing that crossed my mind is that the secondary, tertiary, whatever-ary thing to be gleaned from the data would maybe be a clearer picture of what people were actually interested in watching - and including the ever-growing DVR crowd in that. But what I figured the PRIMARY information they would glean from this is how many commercials are being skipped, or people are surfing once commercials come on and those types of things. Then they would devise ways to work around that - with the most disgusting (to me) but maybe the most effective being what some seem to be doing now - running the ads over the programming content itself!

That being said, sign me up, too!  If there's a way to save some of the stuff they seem so quick to pull the plug on now, I'll go along.


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## twistedT (Jan 11, 2007)

Sign me up, I too am tired of good shows getting canceled. Just look what our input in the CEs has done for the HR20.... Just imagine what we can do for TV!! :biggrin:


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

I'm with Earl.. I want in on this... Tired of 'critics' saying one show or another is a HIT and no one I know watches it and then they kill great shows like Serenity and B5...

John


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## Drewg5 (Dec 15, 2006)

I'm in, hopefully more than 6 people like the same shows.


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## KHook321 (Jun 15, 2007)

I would absolutely opt-in for this. I've always wished I had a Nielsen box. Maybe the networks and advertisers would pay some attention to these ratings!


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

I would sign up for this. Like others, I want my viewing choices to count for something.

As far as giving up "privacy" ... yawn. DIRECTV will only find out I have very diverse viewing interests, and instead of being able to define me with a single label, they may just have to call me Sybil.


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

count me in


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## blacker (Aug 20, 2006)

Sign me up as well.


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## Game Fan (Sep 8, 2007)

hasan said:


> OK...I was going to stay completely away from this topic, but I just can't leave this kind of statement unrebutted.
> 
> Would you feel the same about someone watching 20 hours per week of pets being mutilated? (keep in mind, watching isn't illegal).
> 
> ...


Great response. I couldn't agree with you more.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Wow, over 230 votes here, thanks. 

BTW, I put this same exact poll up at the other guys, at this time there's 15 votes, 8 for no to opting in, 7 for yes.


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## TomF (Sep 20, 2006)

I scares me more that there are apparently a few people here who want to impose their arbitrary moral standards and values on other people who are doing nothing illegal. I hope none of you are managers who are applying this kind of arbitrary decision making into your hiring practices, because it is ILLEGAL and your company can be held responsible for your bias and prejudice.

This is the land of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. As long as I'm not doing anything illegal, I defy anyone to make any decisions about what I can or can't do.


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## narcolept (Mar 1, 2007)

Since I haven't seen Carl Spock chime in, I feel it's my civic duty as a DBSTalk Club member to note that....

Any available time in August/September 2008, along with all of January 2009, will be reserved for complaints starting with "And now DirecTV wants to collect data on what I watch. They want to take away all my rights....." or anything related to "an invasion of privacy on the highest level", along with anything complaints including the words "police state"....

</threadjack>



advanced apologies if you didn't think it was as funny as I did, and apologies to Carl for swiping your shtick before you had a shot at it


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

I would sign up. Like another poster said, I am not shy about giving my opinions so this would probably be for me.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TomF said:


> I scares me more that there are apparently a few people here who want to impose their arbitrary moral standards and values on other people who are doing nothing illegal. I hope none of you are managers who are applying this kind of arbitrary decision making into your hiring practices, because it is ILLEGAL and your company can be held responsible for your bias and prejudice.
> 
> This is the land of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. As long as I'm not doing anything illegal, I defy anyone to make any decisions about what I can or can't do.


I mutually agreed with the other posts... that this isn't the thread (or the place)... for that discussion...

It was my mistake for carrying it on as far as I did.... and it doesn't benefit this particular thread...

Can we keep it on the topic... of the data tracking/collecting...


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## mocciat (Oct 17, 2006)

Count me in. MAybe we can get some of this crap taken off tv and replace it with quality programming.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

I'd give it a try. I obviously don't watch what most other people do, or at least what the networks think they do.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

There is so much data mining going on, illegal monitoring of phone calls, trading/sales of mailing lists, etc. that this is a drop in the bucket...and it has been described as "opt-in"...which to my understanding means I have to authorize D* to monitor my viewing habits. 

Since I don't view anything in private that I would not willingly admit to in public, I don't much care. The same goes with books and mags I read. I'm very boring.

I'd be very surprised if the data isn't already being collected already. (certainly in the aggregate).

Any sense of real privacy has pretty much disappeared since September of 2001. At least this loss of privacy appears to be entirely voluntary.

To that I would add, a great American once said, "He who sells his Liberty for the paltry price of Security, deserves neither."

My sentiments, precisely.


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## reweiss (Jan 27, 2007)

Maybe if this system was in place, Family Guy would never have been off the air as long as it was.

Who knows, maybe I could have saved Star Trek Enterprise.


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## dieseladdict (Dec 24, 2007)

Since its "Opt-In" I don't have a problem with it and would likely sign up.


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## dettxw (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm cautious because of the privacy thing, but I'd do it if I thought that I could have an effect on programming.


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## Rage187 (Oct 27, 2007)

Count me in.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

If we sign up, we should get something in return. Free PPV movie per month or $5 credit per month or something. Why should someone be making money off keeping track of what I am watching?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

How about an additional revenue stream for DIRECTV so they can keep other costs down?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> How about an additional revenue stream for DIRECTV so they can keep other costs down?


Can't be... to practical and easy of a reason to do this....
There has to be a more evil/scinester reason behind it.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Can't be... to practical and easy of a reason to do this....
> There has to be a more evil/scinester reason behind it.


Dang, mess up again. Sorry, I'll try to be better next time. :grin:


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Speaking of opting in and out. Has anyone found out why the privacy options disappeared from the DirecTV website?


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## WB3FFV (Mar 2, 2007)

I'd be more than happy to participate in viewer surveys.. Heck why would I be worried about someone knowing what I watch.. LOL


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## eandras (Feb 16, 2007)

The problem with this is that TNS develops programs for direct marketing. As far as I can tell this information will be use to focus advertising such as commercials and popup messages.


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## personman (Apr 24, 2007)

I would only opt in if there was an option to have my habits submitted anonymously.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

I got a big kick out of that "opt in" nonsense.

My R15's call in to big brother about 2 hours after I add a bunch of shows to my TO DO list. Duhh!!

And I have my DirecTV "viewer collection" choice set to NOT collect any data. Of course, we all know that the software in the boxes calls the info in anyway but NATURALLY DirecTV respects viewers wishes and just deletes that data received from boxes on accounts that have chosen that they do NOT want their data collected, right? Ha ha sure. That's why I pulled the phone plug on my DVR's.

My old legacy boxes made ONE phone call per month to DirecTV to verify the mirroring status and that they were all at my residence, a legitimate use for a phone line connection. Now, they (try to) call in all the time for DirecTV's benefit and whatever they can make by selling the data collected.....and the packages still go up $3 per year.

It's nobody's $#%$##@#$% business what TV shows I watch or when I watch them!!!

If you don't mind *FINE* but some of us are fed up to our eyeballs with the present technology snooping on us 24/7 and analyzing our habits.

And if you believe that this data collection is to determine which shows you like so they won't be cancelled, dream on. It's all about fast-forwarding over commercials and time-shifting of shows. Things advertisers want to know.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ken S said:


> Speaking of opting in and out. Has anyone found out why the privacy options disappeared from the DirecTV website?


It was an oversight in their redesign of the site.

According to the people, they are working on restoring the options.
Which will probably be tweeked for this new program.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

eandras said:


> The problem with this is that TNS develops programs for direct marketing. As far as I can tell this information will be use to focus advertising such as commercials and popup messages.


The way I look at it... commercials and marketting is what helps pay for the TV shows I enjoy watching...

And sometimes... some of those targeted ads... make a lot of sense and is something I am intrested in.


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## jonaswan2 (Oct 29, 2005)

narcolept said:


> Since I haven't seen Carl Spock chime in, I feel it's my civic duty as a DBSTalk Club member to note that....
> 
> Any available time in August/September 2008, along with all of January 2009, will be reserved for complaints starting with "And now DirecTV wants to collect data on what I watch. They want to take away all my rights....." or anything related to "an invasion of privacy on the highest level", along with anything complaints including the words "police state"....
> 
> </threadjack>


I really hope people would have been complaining sooner, because DIRECTV has been monitoring people since you've had to plug in a phone line into the receiver. 

The only difference is a third party company will be collecting and looking at some of the data.


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

Count me OUT of the Robot line marching here. Reminds me of that APPLE commercial where everyone is in lock step. This is really pathetic.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

highheater said:


> Count me OUT of the Robot line marching here. Reminds me of that APPLE commercial where everyone is in lock step. This is really pathetic.


What is really pathetic?

That some of us are not overly paranoid that people know what we watch on TV?


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What is really pathetic?
> 
> That some of us are not overly paranoid that people know what we watch on TV?


Pathetic in that you would really think that Direct TV would be doing this because it values your opinion more than the added revenue they would get from selling this data. Don't be so naive.


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## ricochet (Aug 21, 2006)

My question is how will they get accurate information about live TV viewing from those of us who never turn off our receivers? How can they tell when the person turns off the TV?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ricochet said:


> My question is how will they get accurate information about live TV viewing from those of us who never turn off our receivers? How can they tell when the person turns off the TV?


Since they have mechanisms to monitor IR/RF activity from the remote, then can determin and make assumptions that if no IR is received over a chunk of time, that someone is not infront of the TV.


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## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

If you're really worried you can always line the walls and widows of your room with aluminium foil and wear a foil pyramid hat. Plus remember to pull all of the fillings out of your teeth.:lol:


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Sign me up, but I warn you, if your station is stretched I won't be watching it.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Didn't vote yet.

Would this data show how much commercial breaks were skipped over? Would that mean more bugs and crap on the screen?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

highheater said:


> Pathetic in that you would really think that Direct TV would be doing this because it values your opinion more than the added revenue they would get from selling this data. Don't be so naive.


? Doesn't sound to me like they need our "opinion", they are looking for hard data they can sell. Selling aggregate data doesn't scare me at all. I know there are thousands of people who watch _The Banana Splits Show_, so I'm not worried they will know it's me... :lol:

Cheers,
Tom


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## 4yanx (Jan 17, 2008)

Pink Fairy said:


> if it means that programming could be potentially be changed because they are seeing what people actually watch, SIGN ME UP!


Be careful what you wish for.


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## rjviola12 (Aug 11, 2007)

count me in too. I don't have a problem with someone knowing what we watch.


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## Cybercowboy (Sep 14, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> The rating system today takes such a small sample of actual viewers, can not see how it can be very accurate. They say it is statistically accurate within a few percentage points, but I think that is a bunch of c**p. I have never known or heard of any one that is participating in any Nielson tv viewer survey, or have the so called box attached to the TV, if they do that any more.


My household was selected for Nielson not long after 9/11. They gave us a diary. Needless to say most of what we watched then was Fox News/CNN. Probably skewed the national ratings something awful. :lol:


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## Starchild (Sep 4, 2007)

Our family has participated in the past with the HR10-250. We would welcome it so that the crappy reality shows won't get our ratings.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Cybercowboy said:


> My household was selected for Nielson not long after 9/11. They gave us a diary. Needless to say most of what we watched then was Fox News/CNN. Probably skewed the national ratings something awful. :lol:


I'm guessing shortly after 9/11, most of the national viewing swung a lot more toward Fox News/CNN than it had seen before then.

I also participated for a time with the journals/diaries. There were an awful lot of notations in those diaries of shows being recorded and time shifted!


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

mdgolf said:


> You all realize this has NOTHING to do with programming...it's about ad dollars and viewership/listenership of commercial positions.
> 
> My guess is that time-shifted viewership, skipping commercials with DVR's, PPV, On Demand, and Premium Packages like NFLST will all be part of the service that TNS will offer for sale to the Advertising community at some point.
> 
> The data will be addressable by zip and phone for targeting and demographic purposes.


WOW. Almost a whole page before getting to someone that can actually read and also comprehend what they read at the same time.

THIS has absolutely NOTHING to do with saving shows from being canceled. NOTHING. ZERO. ZILCH :nono2:

THE ONLY thing used for that purpose is the Neilsen ratings. PERIOD.

This thing is just another data mining experiment to increase DirecTV's bottom line. Nothing more. Nothing less.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Oh ye of little vision...

(And yelling won't help your case.)


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

The problem that should concern people about databases like this is what happens when they're melded with other databases and then inferences are drawn from that data.

What do I mean.

DirecTV customer: Burl 

1. DirecTV records he watches shows on Heart Disease and HBP. 

2. CVS records that he purchases daily (low dosage) aspirin from CVS (as recorded from either his credit card or the discount program they run.)

3. He canceled his gym membership (credit card data).

4. He orders pizzas from Pizza Hut (online ordering database)

5. He wears size 44 pants (JC Penny ordering data) up from size 36 last year.

6. He hasn't had a medical checkup in two years (health insurance database).

Burl apples for a new job and the prospective employer has his HR department do some background research. It seems the prospective employer's health insurer considers Burl a high risk and is going to code him as a high-risk. Uh oh...better not hire him.

Now, the reality could have been that Burl watched the show because the nurse in a few scenes was pretty. The aspirin he bought was for his father. He canceled the gym because a friend gave him a nice bicycle as a gift. The pants were for his father. He did have an annual checkup, but the clerk mis-indexed it and well, he gets a pizza once a week for dinner for the family.

This type of data mining is going on now...I've seen it...and it's only going to get worse.


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## narcolept (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow Ken. I didn't see the post where you announced you got go-go-gadget arms installed.

You must've though, because that was quite a reach.

While certainly plausible in the future, it's not probable. Especially the part where a prospective employer looks at his personal health information. HIPAA anyone?

CVS is more interested in burying him under coupons for baby aspirin than selling his aspirin purchase history to the maintainers of thisso called master database.

Credit card data would not indicate he'd canceled a gym membership, just that he was no longer paying with that individual card, and those companies are not about to put all their customer's information together into the superdatabase.

Plausible, not probable.

To qualify, I work in one of the industries mentioned in this post, and I can guarantee you two things. It's not retail, and it's not happening the way Ken infers it is.


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

narcolept said:


> While certainly plausible in the future, it's not probable. Especially the part where a prospective employer looks at his personal health information. HIPAA anyone?
> 
> It's not retail, and it's not happening the way Ken infers it is.


Not yet but it will. Most of the information cited is not covered under HIPPA.

Far fetched - bet you never thought your insurance rates would be established by your credit history - but it is an industry standard now.

The point - information that you would dismiss as unimportant - can be used by someone.

Just as the feds got access to MLBs steroid screening despite protection by labor agreement - look for your viewing habits to be under subpoena in the future. That labor agreement is between the union and the employer not between either party and the feds. That database is something the feds can get if they can convince a judge of probable cause.


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## narcolept (Mar 1, 2007)

highheater said:


> Not yet but it will. Most of the information cited is not covered under HIPPA.


The comment was made regarding the frequency of your check ups at your doctor. This is most certainly covered under HIPAA, and cannot be disclosed to a potential employer for any reason. 

The day that it will be, you have bigger problems than the information that you record project runway and rewind to watch the commercials again, three times per, is the least of your worries, especially when you have to opt in to give them that information.

If DirecTV wants to really push this though, they could use the time honored tradition of offering something in exchange for personal information. I'd say $5/mo for 6 months would get 98% of their customers to opt in -- the other 2% aren't getting a signal, because the tin foil lining on their walls is reflecting it, so gathering information would do no good.

Also, I enjoyed the creative quoting of my post. The "it's not retail" was preventing the inevitable one-liner post of "You work at CVS?"....


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What is really pathetic?
> 
> That some of us are not overly paranoid that people know what we watch on TV?


I think that is what some people are afraid of is that if they watch "Patsy Does Pittsburgh" there will be a record with your name and account tied to it.

I do not believe this would be the case. You flagging that you opt to share viewing just enables your DVR to send what shows you watch. The data sent does not need to include any account or identifying information, just the shows that you are watching...period.


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## narcolept (Mar 1, 2007)

jacksonm30354 said:


> I think that is what some people are afraid of is that if they watch "Patsy Does Pittsburgh" there will be a record with your name and account tied to it.
> 
> I do not believe this would be the case. You flagging that you opt to share viewing just enables your DVR to send what shows you watch. The data sent does not need to include any account or identifying information, just the shows that you are watching...period.


DAMN YOUR LOGIC AND REASON...


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

Ken S said:


> The problem that should concern people about databases like this is what happens when they're melded with other databases and then inferences are drawn from that data.
> 
> What do I mean.
> 
> ...


You are assuming that the data collected about shows we are watching has account data tied to it. I am assuming that that is not the case and they are purely collecting information on shows watched. When you opt in you are just flagging that your account to flag your receivers to send this data.


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

Racer88 said:


> WOW. Almost a whole page before getting to someone that can actually read and also comprehend what they read at the same time.
> 
> THIS has absolutely NOTHING to do with saving shows from being canceled. NOTHING. ZERO. ZILCH :nono2:
> 
> ...


Ok now what are you trying to say? Ad rates are based on Neilsen ratings. Shows get cancelled if they do not receive a certain level of ratings to make them profitable.

So what is the harm done? If the current method didn't accurately measure the true level of viewership then maybe this will fix that.

Also, those that are afraid they will see commercials being skipped. That is a viable concern. The big networks/local affiliates rely on advertising to pay for what you watch - hence the commercials. If you aren't watching the commercials then the companies that paid for them are not benefiting so they will cut back. Commercials are a good thing....otherwise you might have to fork out $$$ each month to pay for ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. We may all say we hate them but they serve their purpose. If they do figure out a way to prevent fast forwarding through them in the future, I would rather that than have to pay $$$ for each of those channels.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

narcolept said:


> Wow Ken. I didn't see the post where you announced you got go-go-gadget arms installed.
> 
> You must've though, because that was quite a reach.
> 
> ...


Umm...they don't have to disclose medical information to the employer...all they have to do is code the employee as a higher rate. That's not covered under HIPPA. Oh, and next you're going to tell me that HIPPA rules have never been broken for someone to make a buck?

If you don't think the rest is happening you're the one in the dream world.

You are right...it doesn't have to be accurate...that's the scary part. These databases have mistakes and even if they're accurate the inferences drawn can be wrong.

Yes, CVS is only collecting that information to send out coupons...they would never sell it. Your ISP isn't selling all of its data. Every click people made on AOL was never sold. Nope...those companies are all keeping it to themselves. it's not being matched with demographic data. It's all separate and kept in vaults.

Certainly the major phone companies would never give up any information about their subscribers...

I'm not telling people to wear tin foil hats, but they should be aware of what happens whenever they volunteer to give their personal information away.

---------

Jacksonm,

While there is some value in data without the attached account data...you can bet they want to keep the account data tied...why? Because they can then run that individual's data against other databases and get information like income, location, age, employment, etc.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

By the way, it's not HIPPA, it's HIPAA: Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

"This thing is just another data mining experiment to increase DirecTV's bottom line. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Of course that's what it is, but which of us would sign up if he/she where told it was to gather personal info and sell it! What I find amusing is how Directv has taken down the Policy agreement and plan to repost it. Now I would bet a few $$ that they are going to reword it and probably make it a great deal longer so that they will have loopholes in it to sell the Data gathered along with the Names and Addresses of the people involved.

Why should I care!

You will care a few years from now when some computer has analyzed your viewing habits and compiled an official profile on you. You'll care when you apply for a Job and someone is looking at the profile and using it to help and decide if you should get that Job or that new mortgage.

Sounds Like Non Sense!
If I had a list of every show you watched for the last 6 months I could probably tell more about you from that list than I could by any other indirect means possible.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of Analysts.
If some guy working in the statistics analysis department of a university see's a correlation that 85% of the young adults who watch WWE default on there student loans, it's not hard to imagine that kind of information will be added into a statistical equation and used when making profiles. These profiles will then be available to organizations that process student loans. This kind of detailed information will be used to come out with probabilities on just about everything.

To start any such process you first need the raw data of a sampling of people and a few years to correlate the viewing habits of the people with what there actual financial data and other data like criminal records, etc. then you build profile models, create a software based product and a few years later you end up with a workable system.



Racer88 said:


> WOW. Almost a whole page before getting to someone that can actually read and also comprehend what they read at the same time.
> 
> THIS has absolutely NOTHING to do with saving shows from being canceled. NOTHING. ZERO. ZILCH :nono2:
> 
> ...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> By the way, it's not HIPPA, it's HIPAA: Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.


Yes, you're correct...my apologies.


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## narcolept (Mar 1, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Umm...they don't have to disclose medical information to the employer...all they have to do is code the employee as a higher rate. That's not covered under HIPPA. Oh, and next you're going to tell me that HIPPA rules have never been broken for someone to make a buck?


Generally, employers do not pay a different rate per employee for insurance, it's a blanket contract. Regardless of this, they would not be subject to this until after employment was granted, therefore your argument is still taking on water.

I'm done with this discussion though, as it has nothing to do with my DirecTV service, other than whether or not I opt in.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

This is exactly where it's going, I have also gotten first hand info about this.
An electronic web has been forming since 2001 and it's not slowing down, it's now starting to come together. If you look forward a few years to when they have a full public survilance systems like in the UK, that's when the sytem will be complete, and BTW the USA one will be much better.



Ken S said:


> The problem that should concern people about databases like this is what happens when they're melded with other databases and then inferences are drawn from that data.
> 
> What do I mean.
> 
> ...


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## highheater (Aug 30, 2006)

What would it take to add TV viewing ??? Not much ... Could Direct TV sell its viewing data to the government ??? You bet...



CLARKSBURG, West Virginia (CNN) -- The FBI is gearing up to create a massive computer database of people's physical characteristics, all part of an effort the bureau says to better identify criminals and terrorists. 

But it's an issue that raises major privacy concerns -- what one civil liberties expert says should concern all Americans. 

The bureau is expected to announce in coming days the awarding of a $1 billion, 10-year contract to help create the database that will compile an array of biometric information -- from palm prints to eye scans.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Saw that also, heres a link for others reading this.

http://www.data-storage-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=100009VNYLPW

As I said earlier I had heard something about this, what I heard goes way beyond just Biometrics, it involves every aspect of peoples lives.


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## somguy (Oct 2, 2006)

RAD said:


> In press release at http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1102771&highlight=
> 
> _DIRECTV, Inc. (NasdaqGSTV), the nation's leading satellite television service provider with more than 16.6 million customers, and TNS Media Research, a division of TNS providing internet, TV, and radio audience measurement worldwide, are developing a national opt-in audience measurement panel of 100,000 DIRECTV subscribers - the largest US national audience measurement panel ever.
> 
> ...


I would be very interested in opting-in to this panel. Is there any eta on when it will go into effect? I am wondering how we will be notified when it does?! Any information that one may have about this will be greatly appreciated.


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## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

somguy said:


> I would be very interested in opting-in to this panel. Is there any eta on when it will go into effect? I am wondering how we will be notified when it does?! Any information that one may have about this will be greatly appreciated.


 It's now 2/28 , is there an update on this TNS stuff ??


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## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Sign Me up... the moment the signup window is available.


Sign me up too. I have nothing I'm ashamed of watching.

bob


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