# DirecTV vs. Hopper Comparison



## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Check this out. Well put DirecTV!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

joshjr said:


> Check this out. Well put DirecTV!


While we know this is for marketing, from a user's point of view, not all is exactly as stated.
#3 & 7 are questionable.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> While we know this is for marketing, from a user's point of view, not all is exactly as stated.
> #3 & 7 are questionable.


I assumed they were talking about TV's with RVU clients built in.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

joshjr said:


> I assumed they were talking about TV's with RVU clients built in.


Yep, thats what I thought.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

joshjr said:


> I assumed they were talking about TV's with RVU clients built in.


What's missing is ***

3) Only with some Samsung TVs and fees still apply

7) If the Genie is already tuned to a channel, you may restart a program from the beginning from a client.
^ may be more untrue than it suggests as the Genie doesn't buffer without being turned on, and even then it only starts from that time, unlike the earlier DVRs do.


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

I saw this chart when I was satellite shopping a couple months ago.

They seem a little eager to brag about "not needing a box" in every room. While technically true, I would imagine the number of RVU-capable televisions in use right now is what, a fraction of one percent of all televisions? And even if you did have an RVU-enabled TV, surely they'd still ding you for the $6 outlet fee. In the future, it would be nice to get rid of a box, its power supply, and its use of an input on the television.

"Start all programs at the beginning, even if you tune in late" - what, the HR34 buffers all channels now, just in case you change channels?

I've been exposed to "suggestions" during nine years of using TiVos, and while I watched them from time to time and generally found it an interesting feature, it isn't something that would sway me to one system or another.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

TMan said:


> I saw this chart when I was satellite shopping a couple months ago.
> 
> They seem a little eager to brag about "not needing a box" in every room. While technically true, I would imagine the number of RVU-capable televisions in use right now is what, a fraction of one percent of all televisions? And even if you did have an RVU-enabled TV, surely they'd still ding you for the $6 outlet fee. In the future, it would be nice to get rid of a box, its power supply, and its use of an input on the television.
> 
> ...


Dish's isnt much better. Automatically record prime time? Great, so I need the extra storage because it records crap for me I dont want. Automatically skips commercials? I think that would only be on the local channels that that recorded during prime time. Not a deal breaker for sure. Not sure what they are referring to about following the score of every game but I believe DirecTV has scoreguide or something similar. Never lose your remote? Really? People have that many problems with that? I dont see a ton of Seniors being that interested in the hopper for this feature.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

TMan said:


> I saw this chart when I was satellite shopping a couple months ago.
> 
> They seem a little eager to brag about "not needing a box" in every room. While technically true, I would imagine the number of RVU-capable televisions in use right now is what, a fraction of one percent of all televisions? And even if you did have an RVU-enabled TV, surely they'd still ding you for the $6 outlet fee. In the future, it would be nice to get rid of a box, its power supply, and its use of an input on the television.


While you are right the number of RVU TVs out there is probably pretty slim, if the customer has them the claim is true. And yes, they do still charge you $6/month for being able to view DirecTV on that RVU TV. With an RVU TV you are able to get rid of the box and it's power supply, and you don't use up any of the TV's inputs. You just hook up to it's ethernet port and that supplies both DirecTV and your internet connection for other apps like Netflix, VUDU, etc that the TV might have built in. Although, I think right now the only setup that is DirecTV approved is to have a DECA adapter with power supply hooked up to the coax, and then an ethernet cable to the TV's ethernet port, so you do technically still have a box and power supply there, so their claim is even more iffy (in reality you should be able to just hook up an ethernet cable directly to your router/switch and not have to use DECA).



TMan said:


> "Start all programs at the beginning, even if you tune in late" - what, the HR34 buffers all channels now, just in case you change channels?


It doesn't say "all" programs, it just says programs. Like VOS said, this works if the HR34 is already turned on, and one of it's 5 tuners happens to already be on the channel/program you want to watch. When you switch to that program it will switch to the tuner that is already on that channel buffering the program, and ask you if you want to go back to the beginning of the show. This only works for channels that are currently being buffered by the HR34 though, so that means a max of 5 shows at any given time. To me that should have a real big asterisk next to it since I have 200 or so channels in my custom guide, and I watch at least 50 on a somewhat regular basis, the chance that a tuner is already on the channel I want to watch is pretty slim.


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## woj027 (Sep 3, 2007)

It would be great to see a complete list put together by Dish and DirecTV members here showing the pro's and con's of each. there are many appealing options for each system. It might help someone decide between Dish and DirecTV


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

woj027 said:


> It would be great to see a complete list put together by Dish and DirecTV members here showing the pro's and con's of each. there are many appealing options for each system. It might help someone decide between Dish and DirecTV


 Problem is getting FACTS instead of opinions.

A nice thread that only allows updates through Mods, Sure I'm all for it.

But just an open thread, I see nothing but mine is better then yours all over the place. Just like now!:lol:


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> It doesn't say "all" programs, it just says programs. Like VOS said, this works if the HR34 is already turned on, and one of it's 5 tuners happens to already be on the channel/program you want to watch. When you switch to that program it will switch to the tuner that is already on that channel buffering the program, and ask you if you want to go back to the beginning of the show. This only works for channels that are currently being buffered by the HR34 though, so that means a max of 5 shows at any given time. To me that should have a real big asterisk next to it since I have 200 or so channels in my custom guide, and I watch at least 50 on a somewhat regular basis, the chance that a tuner is already on the channel I want to watch is pretty slim.


You're right; it doesn't say "all." But it is pretty disingenuous of them to promote that as a "feature" when in reality you have at best a 2.5% chance of tuning to a channel that one of the five tuners in your 200-channel lineup just happened to be buffering.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Actually that's a good graphic. Anyone else notice the new Genie logo? At work we call the old one the "boobs" logo and call the new one the "love boat" logo.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

joshjr said:


> DirecTV has scoreguide or something similar. Never lose your remote?
> View attachment 30722


 Yep, available as an app,available on every channel that has anything sports related.:lol:

Both of these lists are too funny.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

And what with the two weeks? Best I ever can get is 12-Days plus out of the Guide.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

woj027 said:


> It would be great to see a complete list put together by Dish and DirecTV members here showing the pro's and con's of each. there are many appealing options for each system. It might help someone decide between Dish and DirecTV


 I think we just did that for you; there is one list touting the Hopper, and another touting the Genie. Both lists are technically pretty accurate, and neither bends the truth like either side of the last political campaign did.

But the problem here is that even with marketing most people miss the point about the significance of _Primetime Anytime_, which for a certain large segment of DVR users is infinitely more valuable than any combination of other items on either of the two lists. And for others it holds no real value at all.

That failure of marketing is not new, Tivo could not break through in 1998, either, because the perception was that the value was in trick play. That was cool, but the real value of DVRs was that you have a database of what you have recorded and that it records programs wherever they are rather than dumbly recording timeslots like a VCR. And you no longer had to juggle tapes full of video dropouts. And of course large HDDs have capitalized on the whole cache player concept and even the archive platform concept.

But folks just could not see the steak due to the sizzle then, and I think they also miss the important point about the Hopper now.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

TomCat said:


> I think we just did that for you; there is one list touting the Hopper, and another touting the Genie. Both lists are technically pretty accurate, and neither bends the truth like either side of the last political campaign did.
> 
> But the problem here is that even with marketing most people miss the point about the significance of _Primetime Anytime_, which for a certain large segment of DVR users is infinitely more valuable than any combination of other items on either of the two lists. And for others it holds no real value at all.
> 
> ...


Sorry, the hopper just dont do it for me. I would rather have 5 tuners available at my discretion for ANY channel. I record more on channels other than locals. Not to mention I like that it can sit for more than 8 days as well. Hopper is not for everyone.


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## acer (Dec 13, 2012)

another reason why when you compare, directv wins everytime. sorry dish.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

Dish has been allowing a 2 Hopper setup (3 if third purchased) from the beginning. That's 6 tuners plus PTA, plus 2 OTA tuners and a new feature derived from PTAT, whenever one of the 4 PTAT channels is tuned 24/7, all 4 channels are available for viewing from that one tuner.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> Dish has been allowing a 2 Hopper setup (3 if third purchased) from the beginning. That's 6 tuners plus PTA, plus 2 OTA tuners and a new feature derived from PTAT, whenever one of the 4 PTAT channels is tuned 24/7, all 4 channels are available for viewing from that one tuner.


2nd hopper is $99 extra. we could go back and forth all day on what is offered for a fee. But whats included for free in the offer, is what most people want to see.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

damondlt said:


> 2nd hopper is $99 extra. we could go back and forth all day on what is offered for a fee. But whats included for free in the offer, is what most people want to see.


Who's talking about initial fees? They vary with new or old customers and sometime for no reason. I've seen numbers a lot higher than $99 quoted for HR34/C31s. My point was and is that the Hopper Joey system was designed from the beginning to be somewhat modular - one box manufactured for 3+ tuners, or by adding a box for 6+ tuners. It is not correct to compare one Genie to one Hopper. The capability is there for most installations with Hoppers.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

patmurphey said:


> Who's talking about initial fees? They vary with new or old customers and sometime for no reason. I've seen numbers a lot higher than $99 quoted for HR34/C31s. My point was and is that the Hopper Joey system was designed from the beginning to be somewhat modular - one box manufactured for 3+ tuners, or by adding a box for 6+ tuners. It is not correct to compare one Genie to one Hopper. The capability is there for most installations with Hoppers.


I would have to have two Hoppers just to do now what I do with one HR34. Thanks but no thanks.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

joshjr said:


> I would have to have two Hoppers just to do now what I do with one HR34. Thanks but no thanks.


 I would need 3. Thanks but no thanks.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> . I've seen numbers a lot higher than $99 quoted for HR34/C31s.


Same with a one hopper system, So again we can go back and forth all day.

I know a lot of people, "my 3 refer a friends", who have 600 and lower credit score.

$99 for HR34, and 3 Clients.
$99 for HR34, and 2 Clients.
$49 for HR34 ,and 3 Clients.

Dish hopper system for one of my friends was $198 for Hopper and 3 clients based on his credit.

Needless to say he paid Directv $99 for HR34, 3-C31's, MRV, CCK, and Free NFL ST, $30 rebates for 1 year, and 3 months of all the premiums.

I paid $260 from Directv for HR34,HR23,2 H25s.

But I was also a returning customer, I still got all the rebates and credits. And Dish wanted to charge me $199 for 2 hoppers and 2 joeys.

If I wanted the 3rd hopper, I had to fork over another $400.
No thanks!


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

acer said:


> another reason why when you compare, directv wins everytime. sorry dish.


In your (less than?) humble opinion. But choice is good, and I prefer Dish.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Why do I prefer Dish? It has more of the HD that I care about:


H2 HD
HLN HD
Epix 1, 2 & 3 HD
Epix Drive-in
Investigation Discovery HD

Obviously, the DIRECTV answer is NFLST. However, as a Steelers fan, I get to see perhaps half their games on TV without it. The other times I make do with NFL RedZone or go to my local Steelers bar, which is fun anyway.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

...and I love the zippiness of the Hopper GUI.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

joshjr said:


> I would have to have two Hoppers just to do now what I do with one HR34. Thanks but no thanks.


I need to be able to record at least 4 programs at a time (ANYTIME, not just primetime) in one room, plus be able to record another 2 programs in a different room. I also need to keep these DVRs separate from each other (At least so they can't see each other's playlists).


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

joshjr said:


> Sorry, the hopper just dont do it for me. I would rather have 5 tuners available at my discretion for ANY channel. I record more on channels other than locals. Not to mention I like that it can sit for more than 8 days as well. Hopper is not for everyone.


 There is no need for you to apologize to me or anyone else about what workflow or what DVR is right for you; that's entirely up to you. But I would accept apologies related to just not getting the point; not only did you seem to miss the point about _PrimeTime Anytime _that I tried to make, you also seemed to miss the other point, which is that the Hopper, and PTA, may not be for everyone, but for some users, PTA is pretty significant.

We'll just put you down in the column for those who would not find PTA all that useful, and hopefully agree that POV certainly does not invalidate other points of view. And, BTW, the Hopper is also capable of satisfying all of the reasons you present against it; it has two other tuners that can record any channel anytime, and 3 tuners total that can do that outside of prime time, and any recording in PTA can be held as long as you want it; you are not necessarily limited to 8 days.

If DTV had this technology, I would jump at it. But I also would want another two conventional DVRs as well.


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

It would be nice if there was a DVR out there that could just handle recording a ton of material without memory leaks, slow downs, jitters, jutters, glitches, reboots, etc.

Do the job, do it reliably so you can trust it, and do it fast.


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## wrj (Nov 23, 2006)

I haven't got my Genie installed yet but I'm interested in trying Prime Time Anywhere. DTV claims it isn't chewing disk space that is allotted to your recordings so why not try it. Also, as long you can disable a feature what's the issue. Of course, that's assuming it doesn't impact the overall operation of the receiver.

My neighbor has the Hopper and he has his grips. So I'm guessing that Genie and Hopper both have their good points and flaws. Hopefully, DTV will keep improving the Genie for some time to come.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

TomCat said:


> There is no need for you to apologize to me or anyone else about what workflow or what DVR is right for you; that's entirely up to you. But I would accept apologies related to just not getting the point; not only did you seem to miss the point about _PrimeTime Anytime _that I tried to make, you also seemed to miss the other point, which is that the Hopper, and PTA, may not be for everyone, but for some users, PTA is pretty significant.
> 
> We'll just put you down in the column for those who would not find PTA all that useful, and hopefully agree that POV certainly does not invalidate other points of view. And, BTW, the Hopper is also capable of satisfying all of the reasons you present against it; it has two other tuners that can record any channel anytime, and 3 tuners total that can do that outside of prime time, and any recording in PTA can be held as long as you want it; you are not necessarily limited to 8 days.
> 
> If DTV had this technology, I would jump at it. But I also would want another two conventional DVRs as well.


Honestly, I just cant stand Dish to begin with. Their website still shows that they have UPN and WB affiliates and their reps believe it too. I am a sports nut and just do not care for the lack of sports they have nor do I really care for their DVR's either. Never really jumped on the sling loaded boat either.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

joshjr said:


> Honestly, I just cant stand Dish to begin with. Their website still shows that they have UPN and WB affiliates and their reps believe it too. I am a sports nut and just do not care for the lack of sports they have nor do I really care for their DVR's either. Never really jumped on the sling loaded boat either.


Then we are in agreement even more than I imagined.

I think Karl Rove may be their marketing advisor, because they lie through their teeth about everything, including who has more HD choices and more channel choices. All you have to do to prove that is to count them. The Karl Rove theory is that more and bigger lies are easier to put over on people than a few smaller lies are, so just continually lie your ass off and that somehow becomes the accepted narrative, even if completely untrue. Hell, it worked for Arnold for about 20 years. Ask Maria.

I had DISH for 8 years, and they couldn't even keep the clock working on my DVR (ever tried to schedule recordings without an accurate clock?). After about a year of that problem, I bailed and never looked back. My mother had really poor service from them (she went against my advice) and her DVR was a real POS. She finally moved to DTV.

I just think they are bush league by comparison. Some affils in the 12th market where I live were only recently added in HD, where DTV had them in HD for many years now. About the only thing they can really say without their pants spontaneously bursting into flames is that they have PTA and that their DVRs are snappy, even if the interface is user-hostile.

Before 2004 when I left there were regular stories of folks wailing in the forums about waking up to find half or all of their recordings wiped by a software up rev. To be fair, that may have improved. Or not. I'd rather have a slow, reliable DVR any day (but a snappy, reliable DVR would sure be nice). There are horror stories out there regarding reliability of the Hopper, so even though it has _PrimeTime Anytime_, it might not really be ready for prime time.


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## acer (Dec 13, 2012)

Reaper said:


> In your (less than?) humble opinion. But choice is good, and I prefer Dish.


I took that from DirecTV's commercials.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

acer said:


> I took that from DirecTV's commercials.


:lol:


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

TomCat said:


> ...I'd rather have a slow, reliable DVR any day (but a snappy, reliable DVR would sure be nice). There are horror stories out there regarding reliability of the Hopper, so even though it has _PrimeTime Anytime_, it might not really be ready for prime time.


Have you read the "horror" stories about the HR34/C31 on this forum? I've had 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys operating smoothly since the first week they came out, just as smoothly as my previous 622/722 combination - snappy, reliable, and ready for prime time, not to mention the best user interface in the industry, and unparalleled capacity and archiving ability. (The 4 PTAT channels are now available 24/7 with one tuner.)


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Reaper said:


> Why do I prefer Dish? It has more of the HD that I care about:
> 
> 
> H2 HD
> ...


While I would enjoy those channels in HD one of the main reasons Ive stayed with DirecTV is their carriage dispute record compared to DISH's carriage dispute record. When it comes to dealing with content providers DirecTV knows how to Tango. On the other hand Charlie prefers dancing to his own tune, the Waltz.


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## edhalen (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks for all of the info. As one who is considering jumping to Dish to save about $260 over the 1st year I found it helpful. Drives home the point that this debate is largely the same as ISP's, car brands, etc. YMMV. Pay $64.00 at installation for hopper plus 2 joeys or $149.00 for a Genie and 1 extra tuner from Directv? Then compare an $86.00/mo DTV bill to a $64.00/mo Dish bill during the 1st year. Interesting decision.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

I'm a long time Dish customer who just recently went through the decision to switch to DTV or upgrade my 2 VIP622 setup to a Hopper Joey system. I really liked the story I heard from DTV about the Genie but ultimately decided to stay with Dish and go to a 2 Hopper, 0 Joey setup. In large part my decision was based on the hours and hours of material I have archived on external hard drives and I prefer the way Dish handles the use of them. The conversations here about the Genie buffering all five tuners is news to me, I thought "Double Play" had to be activated by the user to start multiple live buffers which is another reason I stayed with Dish; I'm so used to dual live buffers it would drive me nuts if I had to manually start them each time and then make sure they didn't time out. The final straw was the complaints on here and other forums about the DTV units being slow and unresponsive.

I'm guessing I would have been happy either way but right now I'm pretty pleased with the Hoppers. It takes a while to break the habit of reaching for the skip button when commercials come on during an Auto-Hop recording but that feature is still very nice even if it only works on PTAT recordings.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

I would like to see an update on this thread. I noticed that the Hopper now includes the Slingbox feature that used to be a $50 add-on feature, which lets you tune and record any of the channels from anywhere you can access the interntet. Does DirecTV Genie have the same? Is the Hopper still a couple of steps ahead of Genie?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I don't see the Hopper being a couple steps ahead overall. I see the Hopper/Joey combo and Genie/Client combo as being different approaches to the same solution. Which fits depends on what the end user needs.

Currently the remote capability that Dish offers with Dish Anywhere and Sling is much more complete and flexible than where DirecTV is at the moment. At some point I suspect the remote offering to be pretty similar in what you can do though it might be different in how you do it.

Dish's equipment is still the quickest out there by a fair margin and is just as stable as Direct's IMO.

One new thing that has happened with Hopper is that you can record all of the big 4 broadcast stations at anytime day or night while only using one tuner if you are in a market that has all 4 in HD on the same transponder.

Since switching from D* to E* I've found that the 3 tuners in my Hopper give me more flexibility in recording than I had with 2 HR24s stacked in one place. But for either, it isn't all that difficult to schedule because of the 'cable' channel's incessant rerunning of their originals.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

5 tuners vs 3 tuners.

Enough said.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Curtis0620 said:


> 5 tuners vs 3 tuners.
> 
> Enough said.


LOL!

Not nearly enough and certainly not an issue that has bothered me a bit. I haven't missed a show since the switch.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

mitchflorida said:


> I would like to see an update on this thread. I noticed that the Hopper now includes the Slingbox feature that used to be a $50 add-on feature, which lets you tune and record any of the channels from anywhere you can access the interntet. Does DirecTV Genie have the same? ...





lparsons21 said:


> I don't see the Hopper being a couple steps ahead overall. I see the Hopper/Joey combo and Genie/Client combo as being different approaches to the same solution. Which fits depends on what the end user needs. ...


True;

Just like DIRECTV's approach here is that due to the widely varying quality of internet access available in places if even offered at all when one travels, they have eschewed a Sling type solution and selected a TIVO-to-Go like methodology with "nomad" or systemically called "GenieGo" (including the nomad device and related apps) where all program material you wish to view on your trip may be downloaded onto to your personal device (SmartPhone, Notebook, etc.) prior to leaving.

DIRECTV's feeling is that if one still wants a Sling capability, they can always purchase a separate standalone unit.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

When I switched to Dish I got the Hopper w/Sling mostly because it was the latest and was said to be faster than the original. Both are true. But I don't have much use for TV on the go.

EDIT: Dish's approach is actually two-fold. One is the streaming from almost anywhere, the other is to 'transfer' a show to some iOS devices. Both work well.

But I'm 'mom sitting' away from home and thought what the hell, let's try out watching something from my home DVR. Cranked up the MacBook, went to Dish Anywhere and picked a show to watch. Worked perfectly! No burps, glitches or anything to bother me. Of course with my up at only 512k the PQ wasn't anything to write home about but that could be cured with more money to my ISP.

In the past, I used to put movies that I had on my original AppleTV and take it with me. It works similar to the Nomad, but only with iTunes. That version of the ATV is now long discontinued, but it did just fine last I used it.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Curtis0620 said:


> 5 tuners vs 3 tuners.
> 
> Enough said.


It all depends on use. Mostly recording primetime network shows? One Hopper could very well be fine. Now, if you are recording a lot of other stuff, then it may not do it. Of course one thing they do allow is more than one.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

I don't have much use for tv-on-the-go either, but I do like to watch on my PC Monitor in my upstairs office. I am using Directv2PC to watch content from the HR24 hard disk. 

How is Hopper or Genie better than Direct2PC?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Curtis0620 said:


> 5 tuners vs 3 tuners.
> 
> Enough said.


If a majority of your viewing is locals in primetime, then the hopper is easily enough. I considered switching because of Hopper, but my Yankees addiction (I don't like MLB.tv) and my addiction to wanting every Giants/Falcons/Ravens/Colts game keeps me put.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

mitchflorida said:


> I don't have much use for tv-on-the-go either, but I do like to watch on my PC Monitor in my upstairs office. I am using Directv2PC to watch content from the HR24 hard disk.
> 
> How is Hopper or Genie better than Direct2PC?


Outside of DirectvtoPC, while I don't have one personally, AIUI the nomad unit may also stream compressed video to a PC on the same network or other networked personal device as it stores encoded content.

And in spite of the new nomad system name "GenieGo," it has nothing to do with having a Genie specifically and may work with all other networked HD-DVR models.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

mitchflorida said:


> I don't have much use for tv-on-the-go either, but I do like to watch on my PC Monitor in my upstairs office. I am using Directv2PC to watch content from the HR24 hard disk.
> 
> How is Hopper or Genie better than Direct2PC?


Hands down better than Direct2PC from my POV. I had Win7 on one of my laptops and even though D2PC *****ed about it, it worked fine. Upgraded to Win8 and it wouldn't work any more no matter how much futzing around I did.

And it doesn't work on a Mac at all even with BootCamp and windows.

Dish's works on pretty much anything with a browser, and also on iOS and Android (I think it works on Android).


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

lparsons21 said:


> Hands down better than Direct2PC from my POV. I had Win7 on one of my laptops and even though D2PC *****ed about it, it worked fine. Upgraded to Win8 and it wouldn't work any more no matter how much futzing around I did.
> 
> And it doesn't work on a Mac at all even with BootCamp and windows.
> 
> Dish's works on pretty much anything with a browser, and also on iOS and Android (I think it works on Android).


How well does Genie work in streaming content to an Internet-connected device? Can I watch live content from my PC with either Hopper or Genie?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Streaming content from your computer TO the Genie or Hopper is done via a DLNA server, like Playon and others. My experience is that while it works, it isn't the best implementation I've seen on either the Hopper or HR24 (when I had that).

At this point in time Dish's Dish Anywhere is smoother in operation and I think that is because they've been working on in under one name or another for a longer time and have ironed out most of the kinks.

When I left Direct a few months ago, their online 'anywhere' product wasn't really ready for primetime, but I didn't see anything that leads me to believe they won't get it smoothed out fairly soon.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

mitchflorida said:


> How well does Genie work in streaming content to an Internet-connected device? Can I watch live content from my PC with either Hopper or Genie?


Live content on the PC?

For DIRECTV, no;

You would have to at least start a recording on a Genie or any other network connected HD-DVR and then stream to a PC on your home network with either DirectvtoPC or a separately purchased a nomad unit while its in the process of encoding the program to its memory.

Neither of these methods work over the internet however. DIRECTV has no remote streaming capability of live or pre-recorded program content from a DVR on your home network over the internet. You would have to purchase a Slingbox for that.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

HoTat2 said:


> Live content on the PC?
> 
> For DIRECTV, no;
> 
> ...


What about Dish?


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## acostapimps (Nov 6, 2011)

mitchflorida said:


> How well does Genie work in streaming content to an Internet-connected device? Can I watch live content from my PC with either Hopper or Genie?


The only way I think you can watch live content is through Directv ipad/iphone app and Android app but not all channels, although there is quite a lot of channels to stream especially recently added HD channels. If you want to watch live content on your PC then a slingbox/vulkano is your best bet.


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## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

Curtis0620 said:


> 5 tuners vs 3 tuners.
> 
> Enough said.


Please.

That is both an apples and oranges comparison as well as a gross oversimplification. That's like saying that any 5 bills of folding money must be better than any other 3 bills of folding money. I'd rather have 3 tens than 5 fives anyday, and will gladly trade you 5 fives for 3 tens as often as you like.

One could just as easily oversimplify it in the other direction and say one DVR can record 5 programs at once (the one with 5 tuners), while another DVR can record 6 programs at once (the one with 3 tuners). That would be a true statement also, and the one with the capability of recording more programs at once must be the winner. Or is it?

Aside from the fact that DTV decided after the fact that it needed to brand it with a cute little name to muddy the waters and make dummies think the Genie is in the same league as the Hopper, which it most definitely is not, about the only thing in common is that both use a server/client approach. Other, half-baked comparisons are made at your own peril.

Here is the comparison that actually matters: one DVR has _Prime Time Anytime _and a full-blown commercial killer that has scared the pants off of four major networks, and the other doesn't have either.


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

TomCat;3207458 said:


> Here is the comparison that actually matters: one DVR has Prime Time Anytime and a full-blown commercial killer that has scared the pants off of four major networks, and the other doesn't have either.


I don't think PTAT will be that much of a selling feature in the near future with a shifting of viewers watching series going to the premium networks & "cable" channels (AMC, Bravo, etc)


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

"TomCat" said:


> Please.
> 
> That is both an apples and oranges comparison as well as a gross oversimplification. That's like saying that any 5 bills of folding money must be better than any other 3 bills of folding money. I'd rather have 3 tens than 5 fives anyday, and will gladly trade you 5 fives for 3 tens as often as you like.
> 
> ...


Yes, one will record 4 things I don't care about, the other will record 5 things I want to watch.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Curtis0620 said:


> Yes, one will record 4 things I don't care about, the other will record 5 things I want to watch.


Which is what Direct a better choice for you. But for me, PTAT has real value, so I can record 6 shows during primetime (and actually at anytime now).

Since broadcast doesn't tend to repeat shows real soon after the initial showing of an episode and cable type channels do, it makes scheduling much easier. Especially for those like me that watch everything delayed by some time.

Isn't it great that there are the two services so we can both get what we want?


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

mitchflorida said:


> How well does Genie work in streaming content to an Internet-connected device? Can I watch live content from my PC with either Hopper or Genie?


with the hopper/sling you can


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

mitchflorida said:


> I don't have much use for tv-on-the-go either, but I do like to watch on my PC Monitor in my upstairs office. I am using Directv2PC to watch content from the HR24 hard disk.
> 
> How is Hopper or Genie better than Direct2PC?


For watching content on your PC, the Hopper with Sling built in is probably the best option. The Slingbox offers much more flexibility on your PC, than Directv2PC. That's because from your PC, you can watch live TV, set up recordings, check your To Do List, basically anything you can do with your DVR on your TV. And the HD quality is excellent since its on your local network.

Now the downside of the Hopper with the Slingbox option built in. If you switch providers, you lose the sling capabilities. I've had a stand alone Slingbox for several years and used it on TW Cable, prior to DIRECTV. By purchasing the Slingbox separate, you own it. So you have the flexibility to use it on any provider and the flexibility to pick providers based on content you want to watch. And with a Slingbox, you can control multiple receivers. When I travel or locally on my PC, I can watch my DIRECTV DVR, my OTA DVR or my DVD Recorder (which I rarely use anymore).

The reason Sling is built in to Dish DVR's is because [Echostar] bought Sling Media in 2007 [link]. Of course Echostar spun off from Dish, but they still manufacturer the DVR's for Dish and the Slingbox. So that's why Dish has Sling built into some of their DVR's.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Justin23;3207462 said:


> I don't think PTAT will be that much of a selling feature in the near future with a shifting of viewers watching series going to the premium networks & "cable" channels (AMC, Bravo, etc)


And more blatant ads inside of programming.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

Now if you all are done ***** slappin each other maybe someone can provide an unbiased comparison that actually might mean something to those of us that really care how these two DVR's work in the real world.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

To me it means that if I am going to sign a new two-year contract for new equipment , it will definitely be with Dish Hopper/slingbox as opposed to the current Genie. The HR24 and Direct2PC is okay for now, but I will eventually want a new receiver. Most people would also say that Dish has better SD quality than DTV does, but I think their HD quality are about equal. 

One of these days I will make the switch . . now I just call every now and then to get a DTV discount.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

mitchflorida;3207573 said:


> Most people would also say that Dish has better SD quality than DTV does, but I think their HD quality are about equal.
> 
> .


Remember that opinion is usually made by people with EA setups since it's all MPEG4. WA is still MPEG2 for SD channels and folks say it doesn't look as good as EA.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

RAD said:


> Remember that opinion is usually made by people with EA setups since it's all MPEG4. WA is still MPEG2 for SD channels and folks say it doesn't look as good as EA.


Sorry, but I don't know what EA and WA means.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

mitchflorida said:


> Sorry, but I don't know what EA and WA means.


Eastern Arc, Western Arc.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

inazsully said:


> Now if you all are done ***** slappin each other maybe someone can provide an unbiased comparison that actually might mean something to those of us that really care how these two DVR's work in the real world.


It is hard to get a truly unbiased comparison because of the nature of this forum. Couple that with some fanboism from all sides, a plethora of complaints that are part and parcel with forum of this nature and the emphasis on channels that might or might not be of interest to someone reading the comparison and you can see the difficulty.

The Dish Hopper/Joey setup at this point in time seems to be more solid in operation than the Genie/Cxx box setups. But that is something that will work itself out with time.

Direct has a much simpler and easier HDGUI to navigate than Dish does using lists in many places, while Dish has gone thumbnail crazy. Search on D* is still better overall than E*, but E* is getting better imo.

Direct has 5 tuners in the Genie that are always available to use, so you can record 5 events at any given time. Dish has 3 tuners, but you can record the big 4 broadcast channels at any time with just one of the tuners, otherwise you can only use 3 tuners at a time for the other channels. You watching/recording preferences really come into play as to which approach would work better for you.

With an External hard drive, you actually gain storage space that adds to the internal with Dish. And the Hopper comes with a 2TB drive vice the 1TB that the Genie comes with. And with Dish, that external drive is transferrable to a different Hopper on your account which means that if a Hopper goes bad and you get a replacement, you haven't lost the use of the shows stored on that hard drive.

And then there is the speed of operation. The Hopper/Joey units are just much faster at what they do than any of the Direct units. I've read the new HR44 Genie is very fast but haven't seen any comparison of it to the speed of the Hopper.

The rest of the differences all center around remote access, video sharing on the home network, and channel choices.

Hopefully I haven't missed anything, but I'm sure if I did, someone will be sure to tell me!! 

Oh yeah, EA and WA stand for Eastern Arc and Western Arc. Dish uses one or the other depending on your location.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

mitchflorida said:


> Sorry, but I don't know what EA and WA means.


Dish has two completly different satellite systems going, Eastern Arc and Western Arc. WA is bascially their orginial system with SD channels in MPEG2 and HD channels in MPEG4. EA is a new system, based on new technology and all channels are in MPEG4 which allows for a better SD picture. Some locations can use only EA, some only WA and some allow for either system to be used based on which has the better line of site from the home.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

It sounds like for SD, DirecTV always uses MPEG2 but Dish uses MPEG4 for EA? So Dish would have the edge there. I must have had EA when I was with Dish because the difference was noticeable.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

The 3tuner/5tuner debate is silly. The Hopper was designed to serve both a small household and a large household with the same equipment. Without debating the fact that a Hopper with OTA can record up to 7 shows at once (yes, the OTA module adds a tuner), if you need more tuners, you can add one or more Hoppers. A 2 Hopper setup can support 6 Joeys. There are options for more Hoppers and Joeys, all of them can see any recording. Integration of timer setting isn't complete yet between Hoppers, but Joeys can set timers on either Hopper and read all recordings including both Hopper's EHDs. Older VIP DVRs aren't needed for expansion.

You can cobble together a massive DTV system with other HRs, but only one Genie and a severe 3 client limit for that Genie. The Genie system has some catching up to do, and with the interface and storage capacity, too.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> The 3tuner/5tuner debate is silly.


Maybe and maybe not.
If most of your recordings are from the major networks, then sure, but if they aren't, it might not be. 
80% of what I record isn't from the major networks, so 5 tuners works better than 3 would.

"YMMV"


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

TomCat said:


> Here is the comparison that actually matters: one DVR has _Prime Time Anytime _and a full-blown commercial killer that has scared the pants off of four major networks, and the other doesn't have either.


There are currently a total of 4 shows shows, on major networks, that I have scheduled recordings for. None of those 4 shows conflict with one another. So, for me, Primetime Anytime is totally useless compared to having two extra tuners that can be used to record the content that I actually want to watch.

In my case, using your earlier metaphor, Primetime Anywhere is a blank piece of paper cut to the same size as a $10 bill and stuck in the middle of the pile. It may initially look like it has value. But, in the end, it's useless.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Think about it this way. The maximum that the Hopper can record is 6 channels at any one time. In order to do that you are recording the 4 majors and 2 "cable" networks. That means you need to have a show that you want to watch on all 4 major networks at the same time. That may happen for some people, but probably not all that many. If it does happen the Genie can also record all 4 of the major networks at that same time, but would be limited to only one "cable" network at the same time. That usually doesn't matter as much though because many times the cable networks have repeats of their episodes so the Genie should automatically record a repeat of whatever "cable" show it missed because of the conflict. So while the Hopper does have a slight advantage here, it really probably doesn't come into effect all that often. Pretty much the worst thing that might happen is you might have to wait a day or two before you see the new episode of the "cable" show you missed the first airing of.

Likewise the Genie has an advantage in that it can record any 5 channels at any time. So if you have 5 shows on 5 "cable" channels on at the same time, you can record all 5. With the Hopper you wold only be able to record 3 of them. However, once again most cable channels repeat their episodes, so I imagine it wouldn't be all that difficult for the Hopper to automatically record a repeat of one of the shows that it missed the first airing of (I assume the Hopper can do this, I have never used one so I don't know). So here there is a slight advantage to the Genie, but it probably doesn't happen all that often either.

So I tend to agree with the others, the 3 tuners/5 tuners debate most likely isn't that big of a deal to most viewers. *IF* they know how to set up their series recording priorities right. If you don't bother messing with series priorities at all I would probably have to give a slight edge to the Genie when you consider it is probably a little more likely that you would need to record 5 things at the same time on any of the hundred or so channels you get, than it is you would need to record all 4 major networks at the same time.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Beerstalker said:


> Think about it this way. The maximum that the Hopper can record is 6 channels at any one time. In order to do that you are recording the 4 majors and 2 "cable" networks. That means you need to have a show that you want to watch on all 4 major networks at the same time. That may happen for some people, but probably not all that many. If it does happen the Genie can also record all 4 of the major networks at that same time, but would be limited to only one "cable" network at the same time. That usually doesn't matter as much though because many times the cable networks have repeats of their episodes so the Genie should automatically record a repeat of whatever "cable" show it missed because of the conflict. So while the Hopper does have a slight advantage here, it really probably doesn't come into effect all that often. Pretty much the worst thing that might happen is you might have to wait a day or two before you see the new episode of the "cable" show you missed the first airing of.
> 
> Likewise the Genie has an advantage in that it can record any 5 channels at any time. So if you have 5 shows on 5 "cable" channels on at the same time, you can record all 5. With the Hopper you wold only be able to record 3 of them. However, once again most cable channels repeat their episodes, so I imagine it wouldn't be all that difficult for the Hopper to automatically record a repeat of one of the shows that it missed the first airing of (I assume the Hopper can do this, I have never used one so I don't know). So here there is a slight advantage to the Genie, but it probably doesn't happen all that often either.
> 
> So I tend to agree with the others, the 3 tuners/5 tuners debate most likely isn't that big of a deal to most viewers. *IF* they know how to set up their series recording priorities right. If you don't bother messing with series priorities at all I would probably have to give a slight edge to the Genie when you consider it is probably a little more likely that you would need to record 5 things at the same time on any of the hundred or so channels you get, than it is you would need to record all 4 major networks at the same time.


It does if you have a Joey using 1 of the tuners.

With Directv I have 2 other HR's and all are connected through whole-home.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Curtis0620 said:


> It does if you have a Joey using 1 of the tuners.
> 
> With Directv I have 2 other HR's and all are connected through whole-home.


That's one thing that I think D* did with MRV and Genie that makes lots of sense. With the Hopper/Joey setup, if the Joey watches live it is using a tuner on the Hopper, just as does the Genie/Cxx combo.

But the flexibility to have an actual receiver or DVR as a client is a plus in Direct's favor.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> LOL!
> 
> Not nearly enough and certainly not an issue that has bothered me a bit. I haven't missed a show since the switch.


It was key for me. Also to get the 15 tuners I currently have, I would have to pay a huge fee with Dish that I didn't not have to with DirecTV. Also since Hopper's really only have 3 tuners, I would probably not want them as part of my 15 tuner setup. That with a lack of sports packages (MLB EI and NFL Sunday Ticket) are more than enough to change my mind. I needed a 5 tuner box that does not come with restrictions. Let me know when Dish offers that because currently they don't.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I cannot even fathom why a home user would need or even be able to take advantage of 15 tuners! I thought I watched a lot of TV, when was the last time you went outside? 

As to the huge fee, if you are talking about startup costs, I don't see that D* is all that much different that E* these days when you get out of the realm of freebies. And the monthly cost with Hopper/Joey is $1/more per unit that D*'s these days.

I don't think E* has any reasonable way to get 15 tuners in one house on one account.

All of which means that D* is the right one for you. Congrats of figuring it out for yourself!!


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> I cannot even fathom why a home user would need or even be able to take advantage of 15 tuners! I thought I watched a lot of TV, when was the last time you went outside?
> 
> As to the huge fee, if you are talking about startup costs, I don't see that D* is all that much different that E* these days when you get out of the realm of freebies. And the monthly cost with Hopper/Joey is $1/more per unit that D*'s these days.
> 
> ...


Like I said, its not just that the Hopper's limitations is not for me but their lack of sports programming really pose a problem for me. Here is what I paid for my 15 tuner setup.

HR34 - free with a $49 install fee.
HR24 - $100 for a owned HR20 that was later swapped for this owned HR24.
HR24 - swapped from a leased HR20 that was part of the initial install so $0
HR22 - $77 for it owned.
HR20 - $100 for it owned.
R22 - $85 owned.

So all in all $411 dollars for 15 tuners, all of which are used as HD DVR's.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

With what you have, even assuming E* had something that could fit, the price would be prohibitive. But then if you had to duplicate that setup with all new D* gear, that price would make you sit down fast!! 

As to the programming wants, yep that's what makes the big difference. With me both services are nearly the same in offerings though EPIX and Reelz in HD is important enough that I switched. Frankly I could and have had either service and be mostly happy.

And as I've said a few times, it is great that we have 2 great SAT services that provide us a way to get what we want in a manner we want to get them. Choice is good!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

With what you have, even assuming E* had something that could fit, the price would be prohibitive. But then if you had to duplicate that setup with all new D* gear, that price would make you sit down fast!! 

As to the programming wants, yep that's what makes the big difference. With me both services are nearly the same in offerings though EPIX and Reelz in HD is important enough that I switched. Frankly I could and have had either service and be mostly happy.

And as I've said a few times, it is great that we have 2 great SAT services that provide us a way to get what we want in a manner we want to get them. Choice is good!

edit: oops! Sorry for the double post, wasn't intentional.


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

Just out of curiosity i checked my season passes, and found 27 of them were broadcast network shows,and 17 were cable shows,so i'm still a littled confused which provider would be better for me, but i loved directv when i had it yet the dish hopper intrigues me. In the end i think i still go back to directv because of their sports.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

celticpride;3207885 said:


> Just out of curiosity i checked my season passes, and found 27 of them were broadcast network shows,and 17 were cable shows,so i'm still a littled confused which provider would be better for me, but i loved directv when i had it yet the dish hopper intrigues me. In the end i think i still go back to directv because of their sports.


You'd have to look and see how many concurrent season passes you have to figure that out.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

celticpride said:


> Just out of curiosity i checked my season passes, and found 27 of them were broadcast network shows,and 17 were cable shows,so i'm still a littled confused which provider would be better for me,


Please ignore what I wrote below. Apparently I misunderstood how Primetime Anytime works. I was under the impression that it did not use one of the 3 tuners in the Hopper.

[strike]How many of those 27 network show air at the same time as one another? If you were recording 27 show but they are all at different times, then you're better off with the Genie, as you would only be using 1 tuner to record network programming and would still have 4 tuners available to record other porgramming, while you would only have 3 available tuners on the Hopper.

However, if there are times when you are recording programs on 3 or 4 networks all at the same time, then the Hopper would be a good option for you because you would still have 3 tuners available to record other programming, whereas you would only have 1 or 2 available tuners on the Genie.

If you there are a bunch of times where you are recording two network shows simultaneously, then the number of available tuners are a wash between the two systems.[/strike]


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> How many of those 27 network show air at the same time as one another? If you were recording 27 show but they are all at different times, then you're better off with the Genie, as you would only be using 1 tuner to record network programming and would still have 4 tuners available to record other porgramming, while you would only have 3 available tuners on the Hopper.
> 
> However, if there are times when you are recording programs on 3 or 4 networks all at the same time, then the Hopper would be a good option for you because you would still have 3 tuners available to record other programming, whereas you would only have 1 or 2 available tuners on the Genie.
> 
> If you there are a bunch of times where you are recording two network shows simultaneously, then the number of available tuners are a wash between the two systems.


Isn't there a math problem here? 
The Hopper has 3 tuners, so if the networks are being recorded, that leaves only 2 "free".


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Isn't there a math problem here?
> The Hopper has 3 tuners, so if the networks are being recorded, that leaves only 2 "free".


It's not a math problem. But it may be an understanding problem. Doesn't the Hopper have a 4th tuner that is *only* used for Primetime Anytime?


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> Doesn't the Hopper have a 4th tuner that is *only* used for Primetime Anytime?


No.



veryoldschool said:


> The Hopper has 3 tuners, so if the networks are being recorded, that leaves only 2 "free".


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

David Ortiz said:


> No.


I must have misunderstood a post early in this thread that said that with 2 Hoppers, he has "6 tuners plus PTA" to mean that he essentially had 7 tuners available to him.

Nevermind.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I think there was some confusing post about that.

If you add the OTA tuner box to the Hopper, you get 4 tuners available all the time and effectively 7 tuners during primetime if you use PTAT.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Here's a scenario that is not all that uncommon in multi-TV homes. Many are getting 2 Hoppers and maybe some Joeys.

In that scenario here's some ways to use them.
1. At any time you have 6 tuners available to watch/record from.
2. If one of the channels you are recording/watching is one of the big 4, then you have effectively 9 tuners working. (5 any channel, 1 recording 4 broadcast)
3. If you add an OTA box to either or both you increase the available tuners to either 10 or 11 depending on one or 2 OTA boxes.

I'm considering adding a Joey to my system as it would then allow me to manage both Hoppers from a single spot at the loss of PIP for me if I was actually watching from the Joey. It would even be feasible to have Hoppers out of the way and not connected to an actual TV and watch everything from a Joey. Could make a very clean install.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

Can you get DTV without the local channels? I thought they had stopped that option.


Why would you use OTA otherwise?


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> I think there was some confusing post about that.
> 
> If you add the OTA tuner box to the Hopper, you get 4 tuners available all the time and effectively 7 tuners during primetime if you use PTAT.


Wait...PTAT is a satellite feed of the 4 major networks, right?...so unless you have something you want to record that is on a non-network OTA channel (fairly unlikely, IMHO) that OTA tuner is pretty useless during primetime.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

PTA utilize packing major four (where available) into one mux (eventually on one tpn).
It's a method of recording to use just one tuner, it's not a some sort of satellite feed.
You don't need PTA as invention to play with channels.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Diana C said:


> Wait...PTAT is a satellite feed of the 4 major networks, right?...so unless you have something you want to record that is on a non-network OTA channel (fairly unlikely, IMHO) that OTA tuner is pretty useless during primetime.


My wife records some shows on The CW. So the over the air tuner works out good for her.

The best thing about The Hopper is you can own two of them with Sling for $199 a piece. That's still cheaper than one Genie. So there is that! Dish Depot!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The fact of the matter is neither device is the perfect solution for everyone. For some, Hopper makes sense. For others the Genie.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

ehilbert1 said:


> My wife records some shows on The CW. So the over the air tuner works out good for her.
> 
> The best thing about The Hopper is you can own two of them with Sling for $199 a piece. That's still cheaper than one Genie. So there is that! Dish Depot!


I don't think you have ever checked the DIRECTV promo's, because you can get a Genie and 3 Mini Genie's for $0.00. So it beats the price of 1 Hopper for $199 or 2 for $398. So there is that! DIRECTV website!

On earlier comments about 3/5 tuners no big deal, well it is to me. During football season, I sometimes record 3 live games on NFLST. I like to flip to other games and be able to rewind to catch a TD, watch a drive, etc. And during that period, I sometimes have 2 cable or local stations recording at the same time.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

He was talking about buying a Hopper.

From Dish's website a new customer can get a new Hopper w/Sling and 3 Joeys for zero dollars upfront. Similar to what D* is offering.

And you can get an additional Hopper for $100 if that isn't enough. And if you just have to have 3 Hoppers, you can buy one outright for $199.

When I switched I got one Hopper w/Sling for free, the additional Hopper for $100 and could have gotten 3 Joeys to go with for nothing more.

Which shows that from an upfront hardware cost standpoint, Dish and Direct are nearly identical for leased units for a new customer. For existing customers, Dish just like Direct has prices all over the place depending on many factors. But one fact is definitely true, I can buy a Hopper cheaper than I can buy a Genie.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

Diana C said:


> Wait...PTAT is a satellite feed of the 4 major networks, right?...so unless you have something you want to record that is on a non-network OTA channel (fairly unlikely, IMHO) that OTA tuner is pretty useless during primetime.


Spoken like a woman  (You knew that one was going to come back an bite you at some point, didn't you?).

In your own home town, the Mets & Yankees have some games broadcast on non-network channels (PIX and MY9). I'm sure that people in NY record those games on their DVR's.

Also, don't forget the popularity of Downton Abbey on PBS.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> Also, don't forget the popularity of PBS.


 DirecTV carries 4 HD local PBS here, so there isn't a need for OTA, but then not all my HD locals are on one TP either, so the Genie wins [again] :lol:


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

lparsons21 said:


> *He was talking about buying a Hopper.
> *
> From Dish's website a new customer can get a new Hopper w/Sling and 3 Joeys for zero dollars upfront. Similar to what D* is offering.
> 
> ...


OK, it didn't sound like that in his post. And I'm assuming you mean upfront cost to lease a Hopper, not buy it. That's a reasonable price to add one as an existing customer. I did get my Genie for free, while being an existing customer. Although typically they cost $299.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

I much prefer the looks of the HR44's remote to the Hoppers. Of course that's personal taste. I had the Hopper for awhile and sent it back. So I don't remember for sure how similar the guides are between the Hopper and the HR44 but I do know it does not give you any options of how many channels can be presented on the screen at the same time. With the 722 you have several guide choices including 7 channels shown on a single screen and you can go out 3 hours of programming. That's especially nice because Prime Time just happens to run from 7pm to 10pm or 3 hours. BTW, tonight "E" showed the Suns game on FSNA in lovely SD. Idiots.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> I don't think you have ever checked the DIRECTV promo's, because you can get a Genie and 3 Mini Genie's for $0.00. So it beats the price of 1 Hopper for $199 or 2 for $398. So there is that! DIRECTV website!
> 
> On earlier comments about 3/5 tuners no big deal, well it is to me. During football season, I sometimes record 3 live games on NFLST. I like to flip to other games and be able to rewind to catch a TD, watch a drive, etc. And during that period, I sometimes have 2 cable or local stations recording at the same time.


Like lparsons21said.... The $199 is to own them. Don't take it so personal man. I'm not putting down Direct. I enjoyed it when I had it. Like I said it's only TV.


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe and maybe not.
> If most of your recordings are from the major networks, then sure, but if they aren't, it might not be.
> 80% of what I record isn't from the major networks, so 5 tuners works better than 3 would.
> 
> "YMMV"


My point exactly. You all don't get it, Hoppers are designed to multiply like rabbits. My 6 tuners (12 if recording PTAT channels 24/7 now) are better than 5.

BTW, storage is great. The 2 Hoppers have a total of 2.5TB of user storage. My 4 EHDs add 8TB (I could use more by cycling others), and that extra storage is attached to my account, not an individual receiver.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> Spoken like a woman  (You knew that one was going to come back an bite you at some point, didn't you?).
> 
> In your own home town, the Mets & Yankees have some games broadcast on non-network channels (PIX and MY9). I'm sure that people in NY record those games on their DVR's.
> 
> Also, don't forget the popularity of Downton Abbey on PBS.


Bad example because Dish doesn't carry NY RSNs, which carry a majority of the games, so the likelihood of a Yankees or Mets fan devoted enough to DVR a game is slim to none.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> My point exactly. You all don't get it,


Maybe we do "get it", but it's that there isn't a "one size fits all" here and a market for both.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> My point exactly. You all don't get it, Hoppers are designed to multiply like rabbits. My 6 tuners (12 if recording PTAT channels 24/7 now) are better than 5.
> 
> BTW, storage is great. The 2 Hoppers have a total of 2.5TB of user storage. My 4 EHDs add 8TB (I could use more by cycling others), and that extra storage is attached to my account, not an individual receiver.


What's the point of recording PTAT on 2 Hoppers? DirecTV receivers can multiply, too.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I guess because you are only allowed one Genie. But, unlike Dish, we can have one Genie plus any other type of SWM compatible receiver. Unless I'm mistaken, that's not possible in a Hopper situation.


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> My point exactly. You all don't get it, Hoppers are designed to multiply like rabbits. My 6 tuners (12 if recording PTAT channels 24/7 now) are better than 5.


Except, the Genie can coexist with multiple DVR's. If you look at the posts here from people considering a move to a Genie, you will see that most of these people already have 2 or 3 DVR's and plan on either keeping them all (and replacing a non-DVR receiver) or replacing only on of them with the Genie and not getting the clients.

That's my exact situation. I currently have 3 DVR's and once the new HR-44 is available locally, I'll replace my oldest DVR with the Genie and have 9 tuners. As someone who records minimal network programming, I'll take my 9 tuners over 6 (plus PTAT).


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> Here's a scenario that is not all that uncommon in multi-TV homes. Many are getting 2 Hoppers and maybe some Joeys.
> 
> In that scenario here's some ways to use them.
> 1. At any time you have 6 tuners available to watch/record from.
> ...


Wait, isn't a Joey the "client" paired to only one Hopper as its parent "server" the way a Genie server is to its RVU clients?

Yet that same Joey can still access the UI on another Hopper its not paired to and do all the same live buffering, live trick play, set/edit recordings, etc. as though it was paired to that Hopper as well?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> DirecTV receivers can multiply, too.


This can be useful since you can't easily archive content for long term with DIRECTV DVRs.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

patmurphey said:


> My point exactly. You all don't get it, Hoppers are designed to multiply like rabbits. My 6 tuners (*12 if recording PTAT channels 24/7 now*) are better than 5.
> 
> BTW, storage is great. The 2 Hoppers have a total of 2.5TB of user storage. My 4 EHDs add 8TB (I could use more by cycling others), and that extra storage is attached to my account, not an individual receiver.


What is the point on recording PTAT on both Hoppers? So 2 Hoppers only give you 9 tuners (6 on one with PTAT and 3 on the other).

I have a HR34 and 2 HR24s for 9 tuners that I can record any channel I wish.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

ehilbert1 said:


> My wife records some shows on The CW. So the over the air tuner works out good for her.
> 
> The best thing about The Hopper is you can own two of them with Sling for $199 a piece. That's still cheaper than one Genie. So there is that! Dish Depot!





Bill Broderick said:


> Spoken like a woman  (You knew that one was going to come back an bite you at some point, didn't you?).
> 
> In your own home town, the Mets & Yankees have some games broadcast on non-network channels (PIX and MY9). I'm sure that people in NY record those games on their DVR's.
> 
> Also, don't forget the popularity of Downton Abbey on PBS.


Is an OTA tuner useful at times? Sure. But for most people, they record content on the major broadcast networks or the major cable channels.

As far as Yankees and Mets go, most people would watch them live (which, if thay have OTA, doesn't require any asatellite receivers) and if they are Mets or Yankees fans, they have DirecTV since Dish doesn't carry YES or SNY.

On our busiest nights (Sunday and Monday) we have 4 tuners busy recording at the same time, but only one of them is ever a broadcast channel that is included in PTAT.

It seems to me that PTAT is designed in direct opposition to the current trends in TV viewing. More and more people are leaving broadcast TV and watching USA, TNT, HBO, etc. during primetime. While I'm sure there are people that find it useful, in the long term it is going to be a less and less attractive feature to the average viewer.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Diana C said:


> It seems to me that PTAT is designed in direct opposition to the current trends in TV viewing. More and more people are leaving broadcast TV and watching USA, TNT, HBO, etc. during primetime. While I'm sure there are people that find it useful, in the long term it is going to be a less and less attractive feature to the average viewer.


I think the idea of PTAT and more importantly, AutoHop, speaks more to what the company is willing to do for its customers. While DIRECTV surrenders on ideas before they've hatched, DISH seems to be willing to push the envelope to give subscribers cool features before their cool has turned to ash. DIRECTV seems to be largely unwilling to utilize their juggernaut status to effect change that benefits its customers as well as customers of other services.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Diana C said:


> Is an OTA tuner useful at times? Sure. But for most people, they record content on the major broadcast networks or the major cable channels.


I don't look at it like that. We do what is best for us. I'm not worried about what other people do. It does not bother me if some people like Direct over Dish and vice versa. I don't care if people record more cable channels then broadcast. Some people here take that stuff way to seriously.

As for storage I say Dish has it over Direct. Yea you can have multiple DVR's on Direct but with Dish you can have multiple Hard drives. That's along with storage on your Hoppers. Plus I don't have to pay an extra fee for the Hard Drives. You have to pay extra for the DVR's on Direct your using for storage. You can't count out Sling either. I can watch anything I want wherever I want. I'm not stuck having to watch things in the house.

My family uses two Hoppers and a Joey. It's the perfect system for us. Yes the Joey can watch programming from either Hopper. It makes it real convenient. Again it's what works best for you and your family.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

harsh said:


> I think the idea of PTAT and more importantly, AutoHop, speaks more to what the company is willing to do for its customers. While DIRECTV surrenders on ideas before they've hatched, DISH seems to be willing to push the envelope to give subscribers cool features before their cool has turned to ash. DIRECTV seems to be largely unwilling to utilize their juggernaut status to effect change that benefits its customers as well as customers of other services.


Then why isn't Dish raking in customers if they're doing so much good for customers? Dish and Charlie definitely aren't suffering and I've got nothing against them.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

harsh said:


> I think the idea of PTAT and more importantly, AutoHop, speaks more to what the company is willing to do for its customers. While DIRECTV surrenders on ideas before they've hatched, DISH seems to be willing to push the envelope to give subscribers cool features before their cool has turned to ash. DIRECTV seems to be largely unwilling to utilize their juggernaut status to effect change that benefits its customers as well as customers of other services.


Ok......

But that boosterism does not address my point. Every demographic study, and the Neilsen ratings, show that fewer and fewer people are watching primetime broadcast TV, and that trend is only accelerating. You can look it up.

Given that, why develop a feature that is designed to provide value to an ever shrinking constituency? For PTAT to be useful you not only need to desire to record a OTA channel, you have to desire to record two or more of them *simultaneously*. Recording CBS at 8, FOX at 9 and ABC at 10 is NOT a use case for PTAT since you can do that with just one regular tuner. The only time a Hopper is able to record/view more than a Genie is when the viewer wishes to record or watch live two non-broadcast channels while *simultaneously* recording a program on each of ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC. I'm sorry, but I can see needing 2 OTA recordings in the same day and timeslot, but I don't think more than a handful of people really watch *4 programs that are all scheduled opposite each other*.

Once you go down to 3 simultaneous OTA programs, the Genie can do it as well as the Hopper. And of course, if you want to record/view live more than 3 non-OTA channels simultaneously, the Genie can do that but the Hopper can't.

I've got nothing against Dish Network...if they carried the NY sports channels we might even consider giving them a try. While the Dish Network DVRs may be faster than DirecTV's (although I hear they tend to get VERY hot), and Dish Network as a content provider is a fine service (we used to be a Dish customer and never had any complaints about their service), it seems to me that Dish missed the target with the Hopper. I don't know why they limited it to 3 tuners, but it seems like they realized the mistake and came up with PTAT as a fix. I expect a Hopper 2 will come along eventually with 5 or 6 tuners.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> I expect a Hopper 2 will come along eventually with 5 or 6 tuners.


it already came this year as Hopper with a Sling, but still have same number of tuners [3]


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

ehilbert1 said:


> I don't look at it like that. We do what is best for us. I'm not worried about what other people do. It does not bother me if some people like Direct over Dish and vice versa. I don't care if people record more cable channels then broadcast. Some people here take that stuff way to seriously.
> 
> As for storage I say Dish has it over Direct. Yea you can have multiple DVR's on Direct but with Dish you can have multiple Hard drives. That's along with storage on your Hoppers. Plus I don't have to pay an extra fee for the Hard Drives. You have to pay extra for the DVR's on Direct your using for storage. You can't count out Sling either. I can watch anything I want wherever I want. I'm not stuck having to watch things in the house.
> 
> My family uses two Hoppers and a Joey. It's the perfect system for us. Yes the Joey can watch programming from either Hopper. It makes it real convenient. Again it's what works best for you and your family.


Some good points. Of course, you can have external hard drives on DirecTV DVRs as well - up to 2TB on the HR2x series and as big a drive as you can get on the Genie, and there is no cost (other than the drive itself) involved.

Sling is a cool feature...we have two standalone Slingboxes ourselves. DirecTV does need to play catchup in this area. Of course, Dish bought a pre-existing solution. Unless DirecTV buys Vulcano they have to build it themselves, so it is taking longer.

Of course, DirecTV has Nomad - a way to take your recordings with you to places there is no internet. I use Nomad to load episodes of various TV series onto my iPad, to watch on airplane trips (I travel a lot for work). I don't think Dish has a comparable solution.

The one place where I agree Dish has a big advantage is the portability of external drives across DVRs. This is an issue that any DirecTV user who has had a DVR fail knows all too well.

As I said earlier...I have nothing against Dish, and understand that some people choose it, while others choose DirecTV and others choose cable. I just don't get some of the arguments in defense of PTAT. It may be valuable in some cases, but I strongly believe that those cases are few and getting fewer.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Diana C said:


> Ok......
> 
> But that boosterism does not address my point. Every demographic study, and the Neilsen ratings, show that fewer and fewer people are watching primetime broadcast TV, and that trend is only accelerating. You can look it up.
> 
> ...


I see your point but what about two Hoppers? I left Direct because they wanted to charge me $300 for a Genie and a new 2 year contract. We were out of contract and didn't want to leave. My wife and I thought it over and we gave Dish a try. We took the 2 Hopper option and it's fantastic. We could have paid $400 and owned both our Hoppers. That was only $100 more than what Direct wanted to charge me to lease a Genie.

I prefer more cable shows but look at the majority of the ratings. No cable show has ever come close to what NCIS pulls in. Yea there are channels that are beating the networks but not by a huge margin. Well except for Walking Dead! That show is amazing!

Oh by the way the Hopper with Sling will let you transfer your shows to to an iPad. It does it right over your network. Also with the Hopper you get the storage space inside the Hopper and storage with a external drive. I never understood why with Direct its either the internal or external?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

ehilbert1 said:


> I see your point but what about two Hoppers? I left Direct because they wanted to charge me $300 for a Genie and a new 2 year contract. We were out of contract and didn't want to leave. My wife and I thought it over and we gave Dish a try. We took the 2 Hopper option and it's fantastic. We could have paid $400 and owned both our Hoppers. That was only $100 more than what Direct wanted to charge me to lease a Genie.
> 
> I prefer more cable shows but look at the majority of the ratings. No cable show has ever come close to what NCIS pulls in. Yea there are channels that are beating the networks but not by a huge margin. Well except for Walking Dead! That show is amazing!


I'll use your idea, which I completely agree with, you did what's best for you. Many customers get free or discounted Genies.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

> ... I expect a Hopper 2 will come along eventually with 5 or 6 tuners.





P Smith said:


> it already came this year as Hopper with a Sling, but still have same number of tuners [3]


And I doubt you will ever see more than a three tuner Hopper given Dish's conventional 500 MHz block frequency stacking approach for single wire capability to the Hopper.

The three tuners already require up to 3 GHz on the RG-6 cable run to each Hopper now.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> I'll use your idea, which I completely agree with, you did what's best for you. Many customers get free or discounted Genies.


Yea I see that but they didn't offer us anything. That is until we switched. I'm not one to look for lots of credits and free receivers. It would have been nice to have been offered it though. Who knows we might end up back with Direct someday.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

ehilbert1 said:


> I see your point but what about two Hoppers? I left Direct because they wanted to charge me $300 for a Genie and a new 2 year contract. We were out of contract and didn't want to leave. My wife and I thought it over and we gave Dish a try. We took the 2 Hopper option and it's fantastic. We could have paid $400 and owned both our Hoppers. That was only $100 more than what Direct wanted to charge me to lease a Genie.
> 
> I prefer more cable shows but look at the majority of the ratings. No cable show has ever come close to what NCIS pulls in. Yea there are channels that are beating the networks but not by a huge margin. Well except for Walking Dead! That show is amazing!


As I said, I understand that some people choose Dish for perfectly valid reasons. $300 is a lot of money for a DVR. I was still under contract (having added a couple of H25's) and got our Genie for an effective $80 ($200 with $10/month credit for 12 months). Dish is not a viable alternative for us anymore, since they don't carry SNY or YES (Dish has effectively abandonded the NYC market - they only really sell on the basis of their international content).

As far as ratings go, look more closely...while on the aggregate, many more people watch any of the broadcast networks than watch any cable channel, in many time slots the cable channels have the top rated show. When thinking about a DVR, it is what shows are most viewed in a given timeslot that matters.

Sure, you can have two Hoppers, and pay two DVR fees, and you only end up with one more tuner than a single Genie. There is no technical reason you can't have 2 Genies as well...DirecTV is just limiting it to one per account as a business rule (for now). I can Genie and HR24 too, and still have one more tuner than 2 Hoppers for the same DVR fees. And I can add OTA tuners to any DirecTV receiver, just like you can on Dish (the AM21 adds *2* OTA tuners).


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Diana C said:


> Given that, why develop a feature that is designed to provide value to an ever shrinking constituency? For PTAT to be useful you not only need to desire to record a OTA channel, you have to desire to record two or more of them *simultaneously*. Recording CBS at 8, FOX at 9 and ABC at 10 is NOT a use case for PTAT since you can do that with just one regular tuner. The only time a Hopper is able to record/view more than a Genie is when the viewer wishes to record or watch live two non-broadcast channels while *simultaneously* recording a program on each of ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC. I'm sorry, but I can see needing 2 OTA recordings in the same day and timeslot, but I don't think more than a handful of people really watch *4 programs that are all scheduled opposite each other*.


I wonder how much of the benefit in the Genie is more the "set it and forget it" aspect of PTAT. You might not record a lot, but might be useful in the water cooler talk...did you see Chris Hanson go after those Internet scammers/predator last night, that new premiere etc.

It would be a nice way to get some more series links slots on a DVR on DirecTV.

Of course it may very well be available On Demand, but it can be troublesome depending on what network it was on or what studio.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Wait, isn't a Joey the "client" paired to only one Hopper as its parent "server" the way a Genie server is to its RVU clients?
> 
> Yet that same Joey can still access the UI on another Hopper its not paired to and do all the same live buffering, live trick play, set/edit recordings, etc. as though it was paired to that Hopper as well?


A Joey is paired to whichever Hopper you tell it to be and you can switch which one that is quite easily.

At this moment in time I believe the Joey is a bit more versatile because of that. Am I correct in thinking that the Cxx clients can only see an HR34 or HR44?

Note that I said 'at this moment in time' as I believe how the clients work can and will be changed a bit. I fully expect D* to allow the Cxx clients to see all HRs and I also expect that Joeys will be able to see more than one Hopper at a time. When is the question.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Diana C said:


> As I said, I understand that some people choose Dish for perfectly valid reasons. $300 is a lot of money for a DVR. I was still under contract (having added a couple of H25's) and got our Genie for an effective $80 ($200 with $10/month credit for 12 months). Dish is not a viable alternative for us anymore, since they don't carry SNY or YES (Dish has effectively abandonded the NYC market - they only really sell on the basis of their international content).
> 
> As far as ratings go, look more closely...while on the aggregate, many more people watch any of the broadcast networks than watch any cable channel, in many time slots the cable channels have the top rated show. When thinking about a DVR, it is what shows are most viewed in a given timeslot that matters.
> 
> Sure, you can have two Hoppers, and pay two DVR fees, and you only end up with one more tuner than a single Genie. There is no technical reason you can't have 2 Genies as well...DirecTV is just limiting it to one per account as a business rule (for now). I can Genie and HR24 too, and still have one more tuner than 2 Hoppers for the same DVR fees. And I can add OTA tuners to any DirecTV receiver, just like you can on Dish (the AM21 adds *2* OTA tuners).


We only pay one DVR fee. That' s $10 for whole home. We have one Hopper that does PTAT and the OTA tunner gets my wifes CW shows. That will free up two tuners on that Hopper. Plus we have 3 for whatever we want on the other Hopper. Truth be told we don't watch that many shows on a given night. We record a lot of stuff on the premium channels and stuff for our daughter. So really we don't have to have that many tuners going but it's nice to have them when we do. I'm sure you feel that way with your Genie and HDDVR's.

I love the cable shows. Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Justified. They blow everything away that's on broadcast away. Plus Dexter, Homeland and Game of Thrones is awesome. We have a lot of stuff to watch over the summer. My wife is a teacher and she watches a lot of her stuff over the summer.

It's so nice to have an adult conversation with you guys on here. I wish it was always like that!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

RACJ2 said:


> OK, it didn't sound like that in his post. And I'm assuming you mean upfront cost to lease a Hopper, not buy it. That's a reasonable price to add one as an existing customer. I did get my Genie for free, while being an existing customer. Although typically they cost $299.


Currently the leasing upfront costs for Genie+3 Cxx clients is the same as a Hopper+3 Joeys for a new customer.

To outright buy the Hopper is much cheaper than to outright buy an HR34 or 44, I think it is even cheaper than buying a new HR24 but am not sure of that.

And as you and I both noted, for an existing customer the cost to 'upgrade' is all over the place with some getting free and others paying up to $299. I think that E* has a little more fixed cost to upgrade to Hopper/Joey though it does fluctuate a bit also.

The big advantage for D* in this scenario is that you can mix a Genie with previous HRxx and Hxx models.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> A Joey is paired to whichever Hopper you tell it to be and you can switch which one that is quite easily.
> 
> At this moment in time I believe the Joey is a bit more versatile because of that. Am I correct in thinking that the Cxx clients can only see an HR34 or HR44?
> 
> Note that I said 'at this moment in time' as I believe how the clients work can and will be changed a bit. I fully expect D* to allow the Cxx clients to see all HRs and I also expect that Joeys will be able to see more than one Hopper at a time. When is the question.


Clients can be changed between Genies, though it could [should] be done easier than it currently is.
Clients have mixed results watching recordings from Genies they're not paired to currently, but have full access to recordings on HR2x DVRs.
I do expect the whole experience to become more "seamless" over time.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

When did they change the clients to be able to see other than a Genie?

Both services should and probably will make things more seamless. It just makes good common sense for them to do so.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> When did they change the clients to be able to see other than a Genie?


A while back, but I don't remember which NR it was.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HoTat2 said:


> And I doubt you will ever see more than a three tuner Hopper given Dish's conventional 500 MHz block frequency stacking approach for single wire capability to the Hopper.
> 
> The three tuners already require up to 3 GHz on the RG-6 cable run to each Hopper now.


I would image if next box will be with 6 tuners and will require two coax cables from Duo Node. Same as a config with 2xH now.
But H's design is very tight and not well made for cooling down the tuner's chips (most source of a heat for H now) - it would be nightmare for HW engineers to design new DVR with 6 tuners using current Broadcom tuner chips.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

ehilbert1 said:


> *We only pay one DVR fee.*....


Sorry, should have types "two outlet fees".


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## Bill Broderick (Aug 25, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> When did they change the clients to be able to see other than a Genie?





veryoldschool said:


> A while back, but I don't remember which NR it was.


Is the client seeing the HR2x's itself or is it really seeing the Genie, which can see the HR2x's?

I guess my question ends up being do both the HR and the Genie end up being a server to the Client when viewing HR2x content (with the HR2x serving the Genie, which in turn serves the Client) or is the client communicating directly with the HR2x? If the former, does that use up one of the three remote locations that can be simultaneously be served by the Genie?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Bill Broderick said:


> Is the client seeing the HR2x's itself or is it really seeing the Genie, which can see the HR2x's?
> 
> I guess my question ends up being do both the HR and the Genie end up being a server to the Client when viewing HR2x content (with the HR2x serving the Genie, which in turn serves the Client) or is the client communicating directly with the HR2x? If the former, does that use up one of the three remote locations that can be simultaneously be served by the Genie?


The Genie is the server, so the HR2x streaming is tied up, but I don't think as this is "incoming" that it ties up one of the three Genie "out going" streams.

I may see if I can prove this, but will take me a while.
As I think about what I have and can get going, the first thing that comes to mind is the single streaming of the HR2x, which is "one in each direction".
I can test one going into the Genie and three going out, but I can't see if 2 in, 3 out is possible, though it seems like 3 in and 3 out would work.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

I am not totally familiar with the HR44 but am planning on switching to "D this summer. I was just advised that the HR44 cannot access the power of a AVR, but can only control the volume. How/Why can that be? Seriously, can't turn my Yamaha receiver on and off?


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

ehilbert1 said:


> Like lparsons21said.... The $199 is to own them. Don't take it so personal man. I'm not putting down Direct. I enjoyed it when I had it. Like I said it's only TV.


That's the problem with posting things, you can't tell emotions. I didn't take it personal, but you thought I did. I thought you were a Dish Fan Boy, when maybe you aren't. So I was just stating some facts and then feeding back to you, the same comments about DIRECTV, that you made about Dish.

If Dish had NFLST and NHLCI with all the games in HD, I would be a Dish customer. I actually like PTAT, because we watch plenty of programs on the big 4 networks.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

inazsully said:


> I am not totally familiar with the HR44 but am planning on switching to "D this summer. I was just advised that the HR44 cannot access the power of a AVR, but can only control the volume. How/Why can that be? Seriously, can't turn my Yamaha receiver on and off?


That's a function of the remote, not the DVR. The DirecTV remotes can definitely be programmed to control the AVR. When in the "DirecTV" mode, it will control the DVR and the volume of either the TV or the AVR (set when programming the remote). However, in "AV1" or "AV2" mode, the remote will control the AVR (power, volume, input, etc.). For example, in the family room our remote is set to control the DVR, our Panasonic TV, our Yamaha AVR (AV1) and our Panasonic BluRay player (AV2).


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

inazsully said:


> I am not totally familiar with the HR44 but am planning on switching to "D this summer. I was just advised that the HR44 cannot access the power of a AVR, but can only control the volume. How/Why can that be? Seriously, can't turn my Yamaha receiver on and off?





Diana C said:


> That's a function of the remote, not the DVR. The DirecTV remotes can definitely be programmed to control the AVR. When in the "DirecTV" mode, it will control the DVR and the volume of either the TV or the AVR (set when programming the remote). However, in "AV1" or "AV2" mode, the remote will control the AVR (power, volume, input, etc.). For example, in the family room our remote is set to control the DVR, our Panasonic TV, our Yamaha AVR (AV1) and our Panasonic BluRay player (AV2).


The above is true unless you'e using the RC71 remote, then there is no way control the power for anything beside the HR44 and the TV. So if you don't need to use RF with the HR44 you can use an older model remote in IR mode and do what Diana says.


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## inazsully (Oct 3, 2006)

In reading the review of the HR44 I thought I read that the remote can be set up for RF or IR. Is it also true that I have no options regarding the number of channels that can be shown on the guide page and that I can only see out for 90 minutes?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

inazsully;3209002 said:


> In reading the review of the HR44 I thought I read that the remote can be set up for RF or IR.


The RC71 that comes with it can do IR or RF, but it doesn't have the slider control for AV1, AV2 and TV like the old RC65 or earlier remotes have. The old controls have some models that do RF but are not RF mode compatible withe the HR44.

For your second question you are correct, you can't change the guide layout and shows only 90 min at a time.


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> That's the problem with posting things, you can't tell emotions. I didn't take it personal, but you thought I did. I thought you were a Dish Fan Boy, when maybe you aren't. So I was just stating some facts and then feeding back to you, the same comments about DIRECTV, that you made about Dish.
> 
> If Dish had NFLST and NHLCI with all the games in HD, I would be a Dish customer. I actually like PTAT, because we watch plenty of programs on the big 4 networks.


Your right about telling emotions. I'm not a fan boy of anything other than my family, my country and my Buckeyes. I will never be a fan boy of a TV service provider or a gadget. I have no idea why people get so damn up in arms over a TV service provider?? Are these people fan boys of their gas and electric company??? I just don't get it. Personally I find it sad and pathetic.

So sorry about the misconception my friend. The only real sport I love is football and college football at that. When I was with Direct I got Sunday ticket but really only watched the redzone channel. The next year I asked if I could just pay for that. I was told no. So when we switched to Dish I was happy they let you buy the sports pack with redzone. Now I know everyone isn't the same but that helped.

I have nothing against Direct TV. I was happy with it. Yea the DVR's were slow but that's OK. They wanted to charge me $300 for a Genie even though we were out of contract. I just couldn't justify that and a new 2 year contract on top of it. So we went with Dish. So I'm not pissed at Direct or anything like that. It's just TV and a better deal for now.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm with you. I can and have used both services at different times, making the switch when it was in my best interest. This last switch was because I wanted a couple of channels in HD that D* didn't seem interested in adding in HD. EPIX and Reelz. D* did make me a decent offer on upgrading to a Genie, but I wanted those channels.

Wasn't mad at D* then, nor am I now. When/if D* adds those channels I'll consider returning. Lord knows with the 2 emails a week and a snail mail a week with offers to 'come back' it won't be hard to do!

A side benefit of the switch is that I'm saving a few bucks for awhile. But after the rebates run out, the cost of E* and D* is so close to not be a strong consideration.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

ehilbert1 said:


> Your right about telling emotions. I'm not a fan boy of anything other than my family, my country and my Buckeyes. I will never be a fan boy of a TV service provider or a gadget. I have no idea why people get so damn up in arms over a TV service provider?? Are these people fan boys of their gas and electric company??? I just don't get it. Personally I find it sad and pathetic.
> 
> So sorry about the misconception my friend. The only real sport I love is football and college football at that. When I was with Direct I got Sunday ticket but really only watched the redzone channel. The next year I asked if I could just pay for that. I was told no. So when we switched to Dish I was happy they let you buy the sports pack with redzone. Now I know everyone isn't the same but that helped.
> 
> I have nothing against Direct TV. I was happy with it. Yea the DVR's were slow but that's OK. They wanted to charge me $300 for a Genie even though we were out of contract. I just couldn't justify that and a new 2 year contract on top of it. So we went with Dish. So I'm not pissed at Direct or anything like that. It's just TV and a better deal for now.


Since you like College Football, how do you feel about ESPNU not being in HD?


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## ehilbert1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Curtis0620 said:


> Since you like College Football, how do you feel about ESPNU not being in HD?


I hate it!!! The good thing is most of the games on ESPNU aren't top games. Who knows what games will be on there is this year though. My wife watches some shows on ABC Family and it's not HD either. She's not happy about that either but having the Epix channels have made up for it. Especially Epix Drive in. We are both huge horror fans and that is a great channel!


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