# Dish vs FIOS



## srickard (May 11, 2005)

I recently had FIOS TV installed with Motorola QIP6416 DVR. I have had Dish since 1997. I have a 942 DVR. Here are my initial obseravions on relative quality between Dish and FIOS.

*SD picture quality* - FIOS wins hands down.

*HDTV picture quality* - both DISH and FIOS are excelent. HDTV locals are better off-the-air but not by much.

*HDTV selection* - I give the edge to FIOS but that is my personal preference. FIOS has about 25 HD channels, similar to Dish.

*DVR* - The Dish 942 is a much superior DVR.

*Program Guide* - advantage to Dish.

*Remote* - I use a Harmony 880 for both and it is great.

*Monthly cost *- My FIOS plan is similar to my dish America's Everthing + Voom pack but it is $30 a month less expensive. My upfront costs for equipment was zero.

After being a loyal Dish customer for all these years I switched to FIOS because of cost and its very high bandwidth for future HD. (Actually, I have placed a hold on my Dish account for $5 per month in case I have buyer's remorse in a couple of months.)

FIOS is a Verizon product with fibre optic all the way to my house. It includes Internet, phone, and TV on the pipe.

Steve


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

FIOS looks like it could be attractive, especially if they improve on the HD-DVR functionality... but it isn't available in my area yet so I can't even consider a trial run.

I would be interested in trying if it ever becomes available though.


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## Taha24 (Jun 15, 2006)

I really want FIOS to come to my area, especially for internet.

Anyways, this is offtopic but I saw you mention the Harmony 880 and I had a question about that.

I have that too and the one problem i've noticed with the Vip622 is that the Harmony is too sensitive. like if I hold the info button for a little bit, it sends the signal multiple times that the info will open up, darken up, and then even go away. And in the guide button a lot of times I press say up or down, and it'll move two spaces instead of one. Have you noticed anything like this?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

srickard said:


> *Monthly cost *- My FIOS plan is similar to my dish America's Everthing + Voom pack but it is $30 a month less expensive. My upfront costs for equipment was zero.
> 
> Steve


It may be that much cheaper now but you have to wonder if it can stay that way. Personally, I don't trust the phone companies (and I worked for one for over 30 years) with their low-ball priced FiOS initial offerings. It is costing them a TON of money to wire for the new services. Stock holders are not going to allow them to invest millions and lose money for long periods of time (and FiOS WILL loose money, at least for the next few years).


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## Tom in TX (Jan 22, 2004)

srickard said:


> I recently had FIOS TV installed with Motorola QIP6416 DVR. I have had Dish since 1997. I have a 942 DVR. Here are my initial obseravions on relative quality between Dish and FIOS.
> 
> *SD picture quality* - FIOS wins hands down.
> 
> ...


I, too, recently signed up for FiOS. I agree with all your assesments. I was pissed, though, that when they installed the FiOS TV, they also put my phone lines on it, instaed of the copper lines. So I lost my AOL DSL abilities. I do not want Verizon FiOS internet, and am having a hell of a time trying to get them to reconnect my copper phone line. Also, I have heard, that if you have a major power loss (ice storm, cut fiber, etc) you will lose all telephone capabilities. That includes 911, and security system. So, if your power is off more than several hours, you have no phone service at all.

Tom in TX


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## srickard (May 11, 2005)

Taha24 said:


> I really want FIOS to come to my area, especially for internet.
> 
> Anyways, this is offtopic but I saw you mention the Harmony 880 and I had a question about that.
> 
> I have that too and the one problem i've noticed with the Vip622 is that the Harmony is too sensitive. like if I hold the info button for a little bit, it sends the signal multiple times that the info will open up, darken up, and then even go away. And in the guide button a lot of times I press say up or down, and it'll move two spaces instead of one. Have you noticed anything like this?


I have had no problems whatsoever with the 880 control with my 942, nor with th 6416. I believe, however, that you can adjust IR timing on the control. I used a Pronto for many years but my wife hated it - no tactile feedback. She loves the 880. You know what they say: "If the wife aint happy, nobody's happy". :grin:

Steve


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## srickard (May 11, 2005)

Tom in TX said:


> I, too, recently signed up for FiOS. I agree with all your assesments. I was pissed, though, that when they installed the FiOS TV, they also put my phone lines on it, instaed of the copper lines. So I lost my AOL DSL abilities. I do not want Verizon FiOS internet, and am having a hell of a time trying to get them to reconnect my copper phone line. Also, I have heard, that if you have a major power loss (ice storm, cut fiber, etc) you will lose all telephone capabilities. That includes 911, and security system. So, if your power is off more than several hours, you have no phone service at all.
> 
> Tom in TX


Why on earth would you not want FIOS internet? I have had it for a year and a half and love it. FIOS, without question, blows away any other residential internet service. Reliable, very fast, inexpensive, especially considering the price. No offense, but the fact tha AOL is not available is a major plus. Since my occupation is with computers and networks may give me a different slant on things. Not necessarily better, but different.

Steve


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## srickard (May 11, 2005)

Bill R said:


> It may be that much cheaper now but you have to wonder if it can stay that way. Personally, I don't trust the phone companies (and I worked for one for over 30 years) with their low-ball priced FiOS initial offerings. It is costing them a TON of money to wire for the new services. Stock holders are not going to allow them to invest millions and lose money for long periods of time (and FiOS WILL loose money, at least for the next few years).


Bill, I share some of your misgivings. Verizon is spending billions on the fibre infrastructure. But how much do you think Echostar spent on its infrastructure? Those satellites are not cheap. In my mind, the big unknown is the cost of programming. The programmers seem to be the greedy ones.

Steve


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Tom in TX said:


> I, too, recently signed up for FiOS. I agree with all your assesments. I was pissed, though, that when they installed the FiOS TV, they also put my phone lines on it, instaed of the copper lines. So I lost my AOL DSL abilities. I do not want Verizon FiOS internet, and am having a hell of a time trying to get them to reconnect my copper phone line. Also, I have heard, that if you have a major power loss (ice storm, cut fiber, etc) you will lose all telephone capabilities. That includes 911, and security system. So, if your power is off more than several hours, you have no phone service at all.
> 
> Tom in TX


Your assessment is correct. A long-term power outage *will* result in loss of fiber phone service. For non-FIOS folks, a back-up battery at the customer premises powers things for a few hours. I have Verizon fiber for Internet and phone, but haven't had a long-term outage.

My understanding is that Verizon will honor a request to keep phone lines on copper _before_ FIOS installation. _Returning to copper_ is not supposed to be an option.


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## pdxsam (Jun 20, 2004)

Tom in TX said:


> I Also, I have heard, that if you have a major power loss (ice storm, cut fiber, etc) you will lose all telephone capabilities. That includes 911, and security system. So, if your power is off more than several hours, you have no phone service at all.


Correct . They put a decent battery backup on the ONS box but it only lasts 4-6 hours (according to the Verizon installer). Smartly, when the power goes out if you've got FIOS Internet you lose that immediately which drops the power consumption way down to keep the phone service on a lot longer.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

AllieVi said:


> My understanding is that Verizon will honor a request to keep phone lines on copper _before_ FIOS installation. _Returning to copper_ is not supposed to be an option.


As I was reading this... Isn't this like if the Dish satellite guys come out to install your Dish, and then they go dig up your cable coax and take it away without you asking?

Why on earth would Verizon (or anyone else) have the right to just take away the copper lines without you specifically asking?

For that matter... are they even Verizon's to take away? In my area BellSouth ran all the copper to the houses... so if Verizon ever comes into the area to run fiber optic, they most certainly would NOT have the right to rip out BellSouth's copper lines while doing so.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Prior to my installation, I received an order confirmation that included the items in the attached photo.


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## Ray_Clum (Apr 22, 2002)

Bill R said:


> It may be that much cheaper now but you have to wonder if it can stay that way. Personally, I don't trust the phone companies (and I worked for one for over 30 years) with their low-ball priced FiOS initial offerings. It is costing them a TON of money to wire for the new services. Stock holders are not going to allow them to invest millions and lose money for long periods of time (and FiOS WILL loose money, at least for the next few years).


It wouldn't surprise me to see the phone companies sell this at cost just as a stop gap measure to prevent customers from taking their land lines to the cable co's or cell phones. I'd suspect that you'd start to see offerings that are close to pricing for dish/direct packages, but if you bundle with phone and internet you get a discount... to help keep customers from defecting.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

HDMe said:


> ... For that matter... are they even Verizon's to take away? In my area BellSouth ran all the copper to the houses... so if Verizon ever comes into the area to run fiber optic, they most certainly would NOT have the right to rip out BellSouth's copper lines while doing so.


If you're in BellSouth territory, Verizon won't be bringing FIOS to you. BellSouth would be the company to provide your FIOS and it may or may not choose the option of carrying phone calls on the fiber. I expect it would want to eliminate the additional expense of maintaining the copper path, though, just like Verizon.


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## Tom in TX (Jan 22, 2004)

AllieVi said:


> Prior to my installation, I received an order confirmation that included the items in the attached photo.


I never received any such notice. In fact, I still, to this day, have not signed ANYTHING regarding my order or insatllation. As the installer was leaving, I asked him if I was supposed to sign something, and he said "No".
The notice you reference is in regards to an internet installation. They never came in to do anything with my computer. All I wanted was FiOS TV.

Tom in TX


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## Tom in TX (Jan 22, 2004)

srickard said:


> Why on earth would you not want FIOS internet? Steve


Whay on Earth do some people like red cars, and some like blue? 
I happen to be satisfied with AOL Broadband. It's under $30 bucks a month, they furnished the modem/router, I'm comfortable with it, and it's plenty fast for me and my family, and my kids can use it at the same time at college. 
I am just pissed that Verizon wouldn't inform me that they were putting my DSL out of commission.

Tom in TX


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## srickard (May 11, 2005)

pdxsam said:


> Correct . They put a decent battery backup on the ONS box but it only lasts 4-6 hours (according to the Verizon installer). Smartly, when the power goes out if you've got FIOS Internet you lose that immediately which drops the power consumption way down to keep the phone service on a lot longer.


I have a larger UPS that the Verizon UPS is plugged into. I can maintain internet & phone service for about 24 hours. Remember that a power outage will also disable any powered phones (cordless, etc) regardless of FIOS remaining up. Since we built our house in 2002, we have not had a power outage of more than a few minutes. Lucky, I guess.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

srickard said:


> ... I believe, however, that you can adjust IR timing on the control. ...


I have a Harmony 680 that I used to control *two* 508's connected to the same TV and now to a 942, I believe that both the IR pulse rate and number of repititions can be adjusted, IIRC. Calling Logitech on hte phone will provide the needed help.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Tom in TX said:


> ...
> I happen to be satisfied with AOL Broadband. It's under $30 bucks a month, they furnished the modem/router, I'm comfortable with it, and it's plenty fast for me and my family, and my kids can use it at the same time at college. ...


Tom,

No disagreement, but in my case it is perfect. The base plan for Fios offers download speeds of up to 5mbps, with an upload speed of 2mbps. Costs me $34.95. It has a battery backup for the phone and a good plan on the phone when combined with Internet Service. Verizon has just brought suit against my County in Maryland in order to get permission to provide Fios TV service.

So far it has been 100% reliable.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

AllieVi said:


> If you're in BellSouth territory, Verizon won't be bringing FIOS to you. BellSouth would be the company to provide your FIOS and it may or may not choose the option of carrying phone calls on the fiber. I expect it would want to eliminate the additional expense of maintaining the copper path, though, just like Verizon.


In that case... I would probably be ok with it since I use BellSouth as an ISP anyway... but it still seems like they would need to ask before completely disconnecting the copper unless, as a company directive, they made an announcement that they were going to phase out the copper.

It'll probably be a while before I can make that kind of choice though, so plenty of time to think.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Tom in TX said:


> I never received any such notice. In fact, I still, to this day, have not signed ANYTHING regarding my order or insatllation. As the installer was leaving, I asked him if I was supposed to sign something, and he said "No".
> The notice you reference is in regards to an internet installation. They never came in to do anything with my computer. All I wanted was FiOS TV.
> 
> Tom in TX


I see your point. Since you weren't getting FIOS broadband, they should not have messed with your phone line.


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## Taha24 (Jun 15, 2006)

I dont know how anyone could willingly want the horrible service of AOL.:nono:


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## Taha24 (Jun 15, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> I have a Harmony 680 that I used to control *two* 508's connected to the same TV and now to a 942, I believe that both the IR pulse rate and number of repititions can be adjusted, IIRC. Calling Logitech on hte phone will provide the needed help.


Oh, I see. Ive already called them quite a few times with different problems. They may put me on a blacklist soon 

Sometimes Harmony database is just weird. Like before I had the 625 DVR and it worked fine, when I got the Vip622 my Harmony was still programmed to the 625 and it was able to control my 622 perfectly (i guess same IR commands). But then while I was updating other things I decided to change the DVR to the 622 on their site.... once I did that the remote wasn't able to control the DVR at all  So then I called their support and he told me to teach the remote every command.


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## FS1 (Jul 22, 2006)

I'd be very interested in getting the FIOS, but it won't be in my area for quite some time I would guess. Interesting info about the 880 and the 622 DVR. I have the 880 remote and will probably end up with the 622 DVR when I start up Dish service soon.


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Tom in TX said:


> Whay on Earth do some people like red cars, and some like blue?
> I happen to be satisfied with AOL Broadband. It's under $30 bucks a month, they furnished the modem/router, I'm comfortable with it, and it's plenty fast for me and my family, and my kids can use it at the same time at college.
> I am just pissed that Verizon wouldn't inform me that they were putting my DSL out of commission.
> 
> Tom in TX


AOL Broadband is just AOL contracting out with a thrid party DSL provider and tacking on that crappy AOL service on top of it. If you are so stuck on AOL and their proprietory front end and chat rooms then you would be better off getting DSL for the $15-$20 a month and adding the AOL crap for $9.95.

This way you get the best of both worlds. Once you ween yourself from that silly AOL then you can cut them off and save $120 a year.

AOL is nothing but chat rooms on top of regular net access and the word is that AOL is about to scrap there service and move toward a free setup sponsored by ads in which everyone can use. They will charge you a few bucks for their awful email service if you are set at keeping the @aol.com that a good number of providers block due to the huge amount of spam that originates from people who use AOL.

-JB


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## jrb531 (May 29, 2004)

Taha24 said:


> I dont know how anyone could willingly want the horrible service of AOL.:nono:


Amen!

And to top it off they pay more for less.

Simply amazing!

I even know people who are paying $25 a month for modem AOL even when $15 DSL is available to them. Go figure!

-JB


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Verizon announced that it's upping the ante in the broadband speed wars.



> ... Initially, the new equipment will be capable of increasing broadband speeds by up to four times downstream to the customer's home and by up to eight times upstream back to the Internet on Verizon's FTTP network. ...


The link below is to a site for Verizon investors.

http://investor.verizon.com/news/view.aspx?NewsID=755


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