# 921 and long cable run



## FrequentFlyer (Sep 22, 2004)

I have a receiver drop 240 feet from the dish (broken down as 90 to the DPP44 switch and 150 from the switch to the receiver).

I have a 311 receiver which works great on this run. If I replace the 311 with a 921, many problems are seen: sometimes check switch won't find the switch and even when it does find it, it does not see all sats, and for the ones it sees, the channels change slowly and lock is lost very frequently.

It appears that the 921 is far more sensitive to a long cable run than the 311. 

Questions:

1. Does it make sense that a 311 works fine but a 921 has problems?

2. Will replacing the RG6 with RG11 make it work? I know 240 feet is over the posted limit for RG6, but before I go to the expense of pulling RG11, how likely is it that the RG11 will solve the problem?

Thanks!


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## dishbacker (Jun 15, 2004)

Are you using 2 runs from the DPP44 to the 921, or are you using 1 run with a DPP Seperator for the dual tuners on the 921? 

Also, what port(s) are you using on the DPP44 to the receiver and is this the only box connected to the DPP44 or is there another box? Just checking to see if this is the same run that has the power inserter on it.


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## FrequentFlyer (Sep 22, 2004)

At present it is only one run with a separator. It is connected to port 1 (and thus the power inserter is on this line). I have tried moving to another port and isolating the power inserter on feed 1 but it hasn't seemed to matter.

I hadn't considered two runs of RG6. As I recall some versions of the 921 didn't work with two runs.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

I believe you'll have to try (expensive) RG11 as it has half the loss of RG6. Presently I have RG6 for satellite but RG11 for OTA antenna. Since I have a spare RG11 (for an OTA antenna that not in use) I could swap it for the existing RG6 run (DPP44 to receiver) but my total length is less that 90 feet so it wouldn't answer your question. 

For a total of 240 feet I don't know what else to recommend other that RG11. Hope you have the correct rimping equipment because the center core is too thick for most connectors. 

Tip: I believe you need to use output port #1 from the DPP44 to the DPP44 power inserter and next to the DP separator and then to both sat tuner inputs of the 921 (that's the way I have mine connected). Use port #2 for the 311.


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## FrequentFlyer (Sep 22, 2004)

Right now it is like this:

Dish <90 feet> DPP44 <148 feet> Power Inserter <1 foot> Separator <6 inches x 2> 921 receiver.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

FrequentFlyer said:


> I hadn't considered two runs of RG6. As I recall some versions of the 921 didn't work with two runs.


It would be interesting to see if two cables from the DPP44 to the 921 would work now. Hopefully, the more recent software updates fixed the problem where the 921 would only work with the seperator. In that you have such a long run, using two cables just might make matters worse. Respective to your RG6, what is the sweep rating?


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## FrequentFlyer (Sep 22, 2004)

boylehome said:


> Respective to your RG6, what is the sweep rating?


2.25 GHz

Thanks


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

I have a pretty long run from the DPP44 to the 921. I found that if I had the separator close to the 921 (i.e. one long run from the DPP44 to the separator, 2 short runs from there to the 921), the 921 wouldn't pass the check switch tests. But if I put the separator close to the DPP44 (i.e. one short run from the DPP44 to the separator, two long runs from there to the 921), then everything was fine. I had numerous conversations with Dish 921 experts about this, and we could never figure out why it was. Anyway, you could maybe try moving the separator close to the DPP44 and using two long runs of RG6 from there to the 921 if that's easier/cheaper than pulling RG11.

Cheers,
-Keith


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

keitheva said:


> I have a pretty long run from the DPP44 to the 921. I found that if I had the separator close to the 921 (i.e. one long run from the DPP44 to the separator, 2 short runs from there to the 921), the 921 wouldn't pass the check switch tests. But if I put the separator close to the DPP44 (i.e. one short run from the DPP44 to the separator, two long runs from there to the 921), then everything was fine. I had numerous conversations with Dish 921 experts about this, and we could never figure out why it was. Anyway, you could maybe try moving the separator close to the DPP44 and using two long runs of RG6 from there to the 921 if that's easier/cheaper than pulling RG11.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Keith


Where do you put the power inserter (which requires AC to run the switch) for the DPP44 on the roof?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Behind the receiver. Power is sent up through the RG6.


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

BobaBird said:


> Behind the receiver. Power is sent up through the RG6.


Yes but keitheva said he put the separator close to the DPP44. And since the power inserter should be before the separator that would put it somewhere outside of the house, unless he's changing the order of the components.



keitheva said:


> I But if I put the separator close to the DPP44 (i.e. one short run from the DPP44 to the separator, two long runs from there to the 921), then everything was fine.
> Cheers,
> -Keith


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

Anyone: Is there a foam equivalent to RG-11 (solid poly, tinned copper) as RG-6 (foam, copper solid [good] or plated [bad]) is to RG-59 (solid, alloyed copper)? Materials as I remember.

There should be less loss with foam than solid but the center conductor gets bigger and the cable stiffer.
-Ken


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

jergenf said:


> Yes but keitheva said he put the separator close to the DPP44. And since the power inserter should be before the separator that would put it somewhere outside of the house, unless he's changing the order of the components.


My DPP44 is in the basement, about a 20' run from the dish.

I have the power inserter on another run altogether (not the 921/separator), as I recall #1 out of the DPP44, which goes to a 311.

Cheers,
-Keith


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## FrequentFlyer (Sep 22, 2004)

It appears that replacing RG6 with RG11 has solved all problems I've ever had with the 921 (channel lock problems, black screens, etc). Still need more time to be positive but early results are encouraging. 

If your run is going to be over 200' and you are using a dual tuner receiver (921, 942) and DPP44 then you may want to consider RG11 if you have that luxury.


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

For the few that attempt RG-11, note the center conductor is much bigger and is stranded. Thus you must solder it into a fitting and use an adapter to the F-connector, probably from a UHF screw-shell fitting. Without the multiple strands the 1/2" cable would be nearly impossible to bend in a 6-8" radius or so. Just a thought. How did you do it FrequentFlyer?
-Ken


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## FrequentFlyer (Sep 22, 2004)

KKlare said:


> For the few that attempt RG-11, note the center conductor is much bigger and is stranded. Thus you must solder it into a fitting and use an adapter to the F-connector, probably from a UHF screw-shell fitting. Without the multiple strands the 1/2" cable would be nearly impossible to bend in a 6-8" radius or so. Just a thought. How did you do it FrequentFlyer?
> -Ken


I had a professional installer come do it for me. He had a whole set of tools and crimps/connectors just for RG11. The adapter you describe seems to be built into the crimp/connector he used which has a long barrel with what appear to be two stages. At the end of the long barrel is the typical screw-on F connector. I am blown away at how much more reliable my system is with RG11 vs. the RG6.


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