# L186: Do you lose OTA channels when the 921 reboots nightly?



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Now that we're under L186, I would like to collect data on whether or not you lose any OTA channels when the 921 reboots. That is do you have to add any OTA channels back or rescan OTA channels after your 921 reboots?

If you answer YES, please provide your location, the station(s) you have to add back, and contact information for the engineering department at the station(s) if you can get it.

If you responded in the previous thread under L185, and experience the same problems, PLEASE RESPOND AGAIN!


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Now that we're under L186, I would like to collect data on whether or not you lose any OTA channels when the 921 reboots. That is do you have to add any OTA channels back or rescan OTA channels after your 921 reboots?
> 
> If you answer YES, please provide your location, the station(s) you have to add back, and contact information for the engineering department at the station(s) if you can get it.
> 
> If you responded in the previous thread under L185, and experience the same problems, PLEASE RESPOND AGAIN!


At least after the initial download L186 i lost all the Digital OTA channels. I had not lost them with L185 or its nightly reboot. Hopefully this is a onetime occurance.

Located in NY area and lost wcbs-dt wnbc-dt wabc-dt wnyc-dt wwor-dt(shares with wnyc-dt) wpix-dt whli-dt and some others. Since I lost them all I don't think this is related to the individual stations so I don't think contact info is appropriate.


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## deweybrunner (Feb 8, 2004)

This morning I had not lost a single ota. I usually lose one or two. Hope this keeps up.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

So far so good Mark as far as OTA's I normally watch in the morning. It will be interesting to see if it has re-picked up channel 4 that I hadnt had a chance to rescan in.


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## pculley (Dec 23, 2003)

I appear to be in a special category; I cannot figure out how to add ANY OTA channels since 186.

I normally keep 7 of the 16 or so ATSC channels available in Houston active. When 186 appeared, at first I was unable to get the machine going at all (see http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=264662&postcount=8). It seemed to be "stuck" trying to display an OTA channel, and nothing I could do would get it to switch. It was clearly not working well with response to keys taking 30-40 seconds, a Smart Card "Error: No Info" on the information screen, and inability to view a sat channel. It did allow viewing of recorded content although the selection process was very slow with the slow response to each key press.

Later following numerous tries, I got it to work on sat channels by using Menu 6,6 return to factory defaults. This apparently removed enough OTA channels that the unit reverted to a sat channel at reboot.

At this point, any attempt to add an OTA, causes the unit to return to the above "dead" mode. It can only be brought somewhat back with the Menu 6,6. I have tried adding several different channels (that used to never drop out). Each time the tuner finds the first channel entered, with good signal strength, and then goes awry when I attempt to save it. No additional channels can be found, the channel added does not appear in the list, and we are dead.

I also tried doing a channel scan, it found the first channel (9, KUHT, inferrerred by the bump in channel count while the progress bar was in that position) and then found no other channels. It did not offer the "SAVE" button at the end, only "Cancel" and "Help" (which wasn't much...).

At this point I have NO OTA, and I sincerely wish that I had 184 back.

Over a dozen reboots later, A theory; I suspect that the 186 download was not correctly loaded into some flash device, probably because the OTA tuner or some other micro was in a "bad" state during the download. I suspect that my machine was tuned to an OTA channel that disappears after a reboot at the time it got the download (I had not had the machine out of standby yet that day to add the lost channels back in).

Mark, is there any way to resurrect this thing short of asking for a replacement?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Mark-

Need another option in the poll:

Lost all OTA channels after a reboot and unable to add them back!

Actually, after the first reboot I lost all channels, even sat channels. A second reboot and I now have sat channels but still problems with my OTA channels:
I tried to add several OTA channels back and none will add. I deleted the OTA's in the list after the first reboot. I get good signal bar to 115-120 on those I tried, however the bar remains red and says not locked. I have difficulty in exiting this screen as the 921 is extremely slow in response but if I wait about 3 minutes the menu will exit but nothing saved.
I am now attempting to add the OTA channels by auto scan method to see what happens.
I will report back on this later as it normally takes a long time.


As you know I did not have too many problems with my OTA channels and timers prior to rebooting after the L186 downloaded. This download definitly has left my 921 broken and this time I don't believe I can blame it on a CSR screwing up my card.
If this is going to be the norm, then they really need to figure out a way to revert back to a software release that does work.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

You guys are going to need to call in on this one. I haven't seen the problems that you're describing for several versions, and power plug rebooting always brought it back to normal for me.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

More info as I continue to waste my time with these experiments.

The auto scan failed although did complete after about 15 minutes. Unfortunately it left my 921 channel-less again. Start the cycle all over. First I rebooted with power plug. Then checked system screen and surprise! No smart card info. 

I did a smart card reboot and now I have card info and channels again.

Went into the menu 6-8 and attempted to add my PBS channel.

Bingo! The manual add went like greased lightning. That's 'southern' for very fast.

Then I checked and they were added back to my all channels list. I also checked the sat channels and now channels changing is also fast as before. I will continue to add the rest of my OTA channels back. The 921 sluggish operation appears to be gone with the smart card reboot.


I believe the reboot power plug followed by a smart card reboot did the trick.



Also- My first observation on the guide for the PBS channel I added was that all the sub channels are not listed in the guide. This is new as they were not present with L185. I give L186 this gold star for listing the subchannels in the guide with separate line entries. My PBS station has 4 subchannels.

I'll report back after I add the rest of the OTA channels.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

All channels were successfully added back except for the two that do not transmit PSIP. These are the ABC and NBC affiliate channels 13-1 and 10-1 digital. I had good signal of 111 and 115 on these but the bar remained red with "no signal lock"

Additionally, the L186 did not fix the channel 17-1 WJWB problem of not being able to execute DVR functions on this channel. I still have no DVR capability on WJWB.


Conclusions-
After spending about 2.5 hours on this getting my 921 to work again, I am now left with 2 less channels that I once had before L186.


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> More info as I continue to waste my time with these experiments.
> 
> The auto scan failed although did complete after about 15 minutes. Unfortunately it left my 921 channel-less again. Start the cycle all over. First I rebooted with power plug. Then checked system screen and surprise! No smart card info.
> 
> ...


Congratulations Don!

Now for those of us still in this mess, could you enumerate more clearly what were the sequence of steps which resolved this for you. Was it,

1. Delete all OTA channels.
2. Put 921 in standby mode.
3. Pull the plug.
4. After unit rebooted and still in standby mode, pull the smart card.
5. After unit rebooted, add back OTA channels.
6. All is well 

?

Also, what exactly is the sequence for a "smart card reboot"? Is it simply pulling and reinserting the smart card while the 921 is on (or in standby mode)?

Thanks for your help.

-Keith


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Keith- Your 1-5 seems right as to what I did. All is not well as I still do not have the two channels w/o PSIP. 

Smart card reboot:
Put the 921 in stand by. 
Pull the smart card out.
Turn on and wait. You may get a screen that tells you to insert your card. do it and voila!

If you don't get the screen telling you to insert the card after waiting, like 5 minutes, then just insert it and it may take off from there. That happened to me once too.
If not, try to power plug reboot and wait for the screen to tell you to insert a smart card. I believe that about covers all the different methods of smart card recovery.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

OK, I just voted as the first category, now best describes my current position.

I had to add my OTA channels after a reboot, but not all of them will add back. I'm now not able to add the two without PSIP that do not and never have remapped on the 921. Until today, those were my most stable channels. Now I can't receive them on the 921. 

In addition, a subsequent reboot with L186 does not lose any of the added back channels. What has been added back, now appears stable with additional reboots. I will be watching it over time.


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## onethree (Jul 4, 2004)

I answered yes to the poll but it might be another issue. I don't know if I got L186 last night or this morning. I do know when I turned on my 921 this morning I could not get any of my locals. When I went home for lunch L186 was there still no locals. I manually added locals and did a front panel reboot and my locals are still there! However, I now have another issue. I noticed that on the add DTV selection screen on the signal strength indicator they have added a "locked and acquired" message. Before L186 I received KOCB WB 34 (ATSC 33) but now I am unable to watch this channel. The singal strength is 125 but it doesn't change from orange to green. Some times I can get it to say locked and acquired but when I go to view KOCB WB 34 (ATSC 33) the screen remains black and does nothing. I will let you know tomorrow if my locals survive the overnight reboot.

Station information KOCB WB 34 (ATSC 33) 405-478-3434

PS. When my Mit TV tuner tunes to KOCB the channel is 33-3 instead of 33-1 even though they are broadcasting no additional channels.


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## pwherr (Jul 14, 2004)

I guess i'm lucky. Never lost any stations. Got the new software can't tell any difference but have not had any issues yet.It did take 45 min. on hold with dish to activate when I first got mine but no problems since.Do wish the locals listed like 721 in channel order not up in the 9000s.They could list under the ota's.


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## Jim Kosinsky (Jul 20, 2003)

Never have lost any OTA channels until 186...today I was missing 2-1 and 5-1. Did a rescan and they came back.


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## haydentf (Jan 20, 2004)

I downloaded L186 last night and lost all my OTA channels. Tried to auto rescan tonight and the 921 didn't find any of the 9 I use to get (Dallas/Fort Worth area.) I was able to manually add them all again though. I'll let you all know tomorrow if they stay or go.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

I don't know how to classify my problems. After the software update reboot, I seemed to have permanently lost CBS (www.kpix.com). This is one that I always had to manually add after a reboot. Since I can't add it, I can't see if it gets lost every time. Since it is gone, I'm assuming it is gone after reboot for the moment. I have tried to delete all of the channels, I've done smart card reboots, I've done power plug reboots, I've done the menu to reset the 921 to default settings, I've done re-scans, I've done manual adds of CBS, and like others, it shows it adds it into the channel list, but I only get "Channel x.x not found".

KBHK (www.kbhk.com) seems to randomly be viewable depending on the reboot. I'm currently getting a black screen without the "Channel x.x not found" message, although I was able to watch it about 20 minutes ago.

Channel 47.1 (KTLN) Gives me a black screen.
Channel 48.1 took about 20 seconds before a picture appeared, and this one has previously mapped as channel 11.1 (NBC) while channel 11.1 also mapped as (NBC). Now, channel 48.2 maps to NBC, the same as channel 11.1. 
Channel 63.1 (no call letters) gives me a black screen.

When re-scanning the channels, I've actually seen it get "stuck" at the beginning of the re-scan. I haven't seen that behavior since L14x vintage software. A reboot seemed to help that one.

Doing manual adds, I've seen high signal strengths with red bars, not green bars. I've never seen it do that before. I re-entered the "Add DTV" menu, and the same channel showed as "locked" with a green bar. Go figure.

I've seen the blue light on AND the yellow light on at the same time! I've also seen it do stuff without any lights on, no power light even. I've had it show the green power light with no other light, and no picture, and pressing the "SD/HD" button didn't help matters. In fact, no button presses work, only a reboot seems to fix that.

This update is crippling. At least before I could add the channels, now CBS is just gone! I've probably rebooted a dozen times now. Nothing is stable.

Okay, one more update.... Now I DON'T HAVE ANY CHANNELS. I get a black screen for everything.

They really need to look at their channel map database. Until they fix that, we will still have problems....


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

My OTA channels are all there. I have never had a problem with losing them. I repeat, I have NEVER had a problem. I really feel for you guys who do lose them, though. It sounds very frustrating. So, what is it about my area, or my equipment, that is different?

I live halfway in between Baltimore and DC, with almost 180 degree separation between their signals, so I can't pick up all stations at once. I could get a rotor, but have two antennas with an A/B switch instead. I usually watch DC, unless WJLA (ABC) is playing games again (like forgetting to switch over to HD). Unfortunately, the Balt. ABC affiliate comes in the worst.

I have a professionally installed, roof-mounted antenna. I don't remember the model, but it is a fairly small yagi. I also have one of those POS Terks that clip onto your dish. It is enough to get Balt. but not DC. 

-Chris


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

okay Mark,, Here is what I am losing after a reboot. Now as a sidenote,, I cant view them after a scan. My OTA signal strength is 98 - 101 , the channels do show after a scan but when I select them, it shows channel not locked message. My 6 other OTA channels are fine.

WTTV in Indianapolis, 04-01, 04-02 , station id is WB4, programming dept# is (317) 715-2761.

WRTV in Indianapolis, 25-01, 25092, station id is RTV6, phone# is (317) 635-9788


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## onethree (Jul 4, 2004)

I did not lose my OTA last night. This is the first time since I got my 921 a month ago. However, I am no unable to view KOCB 34 (DTV 33). I have 125 signal strength but when I go to view the channel it is black with no sound. KOCB does not send PSIP info at this time. Could this be the cause?


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## John Walsh (Apr 22, 2002)

I still have all my OTA stations. There are a few that I deleted from the guide and I tried to rescan last night and this morning but the machine just locked up. Guess I had better hope that I don't lose my OTA or I may not be able to get them back


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## DanB33 (Nov 17, 2003)

With L185 I lost WOOD-DT ATSC channel 7 Remapped as 008-01, 008-02 and 008-03. I had to add back in. Chief Engineer Mike Leamers. Website www.woodtv.com . Phone 616-456-8888. 
Today with L186, I only lost 008-03, which in a local radar channel with NWS WX audio. It came back with add DTV.
In addition, I am now losing WXMI-DT ATSC channel 19 mapped as 017-01. Chief Engineeer Dale Scolton. Website www.wxmi.com . Phone 616-364-8722. It adds back in with add DTV.
In both L185 and L186, when I put the 921 in standby from SD Mode, after an overnite reboot the HD mode changes from 1080i to 480p. If it is put in standby from HD Mode, HD stays at 1080i. Is this designed this way or a bug?
I have had the unit since July 1. Most of my timers have worked, including OTA timers. I did lose one OTA recording,because mt antenna rotor did move correctly. Grand Rapids has 8 DTV stations in 4 directions from my house. I cannot get 2 of the stations because I am behind a bluff in their direction. I do not get good reception on their analog channels either.
James Daniel Bishop


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## seadog320 (Dec 16, 2003)

I've had my 921 for almost two weeks now. With 185, I lost an OTA channel or 2 every night. Last night with 186, I lost no OTA channels. BTW, since installation of my 921, I've had to do no manual reboots/power cycles of any kind, just lucky I guess.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Can't wait to see what Simple Simon has to say when he gets back from Vacation. 
And he was worried about rebooting and losing OTA channels. 

Anyway- FWIW- Those of you who were thinking you would get salvation on OTA issues with an HDTIVO, don't hold your breath! That box has more problems than the 921 does with OTA. I don't know of any receiver that is home free right now for OTA across the nation. In a few days, I plan to do a usability comparison between the HDTIVO, VOOM, and 921 primarily for anyone who is on the fence trying to decide which to buy into. Of course the VOOM is a receiver only and can be compared for non-DVR use.


Update- I was able to set up a test lab to measure the HDTIVO and have determined that the receiver will work with a very narrow range of signals as compared to others including the 921. On my system, setting the gain over my antenna to between 7-9 db made the TIVO work perfectly. Many are having problems with the HDTIVO but it just needs to have the exact proper signal and then it works. Many are lucky, quite a few are not. At least the 921 is less sensitive to this hardware problem. Seems to be just software issues.


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## RICHARD BRANSTON (Jul 15, 2004)

I do not loose OTA Channels after power cord reboot or overnight auto reboots. I can receive all digital channels in LA. When I first set up 921 (6/24/04) and auto scanned digital channels 4(nbc in LA) and 11 (Fox in LA) did not scan. I manually scanned them and got them, but not with call sign or analog channel number. I scanned all analog channel and got reception even though I use a channel master 4228. After that scan nbc and fox digital channels appeared in the guide with the 4 and 11 channel numbers and call signs. I don't know why. Just thought it might help someone. Please excuse any protocol mistakes as i am a nu bee.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Welcome aboard Richard.


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

RICHARD BRANSTON said:


> I do not loose OTA Channels after power cord reboot or overnight auto reboots. I can receive all digital channels in LA. When I first set up 921 (6/24/04) and auto scanned digital channels 4(nbc in LA) and 11 (Fox in LA) did not scan. I manually scanned them and got them, but not with call sign or analog channel number. I scanned all analog channel and got reception even though I use a channel master 4228. After that scan nbc and fox digital channels appeared in the guide with the 4 and 11 channel numbers and call signs. I don't know why. Just thought it might help someone. Please excuse any protocol mistakes as i am a nu bee.


Richard, do you actually receive and can view 66-1 (UPN digital) and 50-1 (KOCE digital). The check is can you see the picture, not just that the channel shows up in the guide? Most of us cannot get UPN digital, and I cannot view KOCE, even though it shows up in my guide.


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## rbyers (Jan 15, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> I don't know of any receiver that is home free right now for OTA across the nation.


Don, I presume that you mean to say that all OTA digital receivers have some problems. In my experience, most of these are pretty minor glitches, with the exception of the satellite/OTA receiver combos. I've had two ( and my children have had two more) OTA digital receivers. All of these worked flawlessly. They detected and displayed channels. If the PSIP info wasn't there, they at least provided you the ability to look at the picture, and to add descriptive text to supplant the missing PSIP info. I've sorry to hear that the HDTIVO is at least as bad as the 921. BTW, since you're also an old time programmer, do you suppose that our development team is off-shore?


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## pculley (Dec 23, 2003)

An update to my message quoted below; I left this thing alone overnight (in disgust) and the next day it allowed me to add OTA channels just fine. I also added back my favorites (which did not appear to work quite right the first time, but which reappeared after yet another reboot). The OTAs still don't appear to be addable to favorites. So now the unit appears to be pretty much operating (I'm sure that some old and new bugs remain, but I have not bumped into them yet).

I wish Eldon would tell us if the unit needs to just sit for a while in standby to achieve full functionality; that would have saved me much frustration (3.5 hours and over a dozen reboots).



pculley said:


> I appear to be in a special category; I cannot figure out how to add ANY OTA channels since 186.
> 
> I normally keep 7 of the 16 or so ATSC channels available in Houston active. When 186 appeared, at first I was unable to get the machine going at all (see http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=264662&postcount=8). It seemed to be "stuck" trying to display an OTA channel, and nothing I could do would get it to switch. It was clearly not working well with response to keys taking 30-40 seconds, a Smart Card "Error: No Info" on the information screen, and inability to view a sat channel. It did allow viewing of recorded content although the selection process was very slow with the slow response to each key press.
> 
> ...


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## RICHARD BRANSTON (Jul 15, 2004)

Redstar, thank you

rkyers,
Not at home now. Will check tonight and post tomorrow AM. I am at work and my wife is not home.


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## pdlittle (Jan 25, 2004)

Pcully and DonLandis,

I have experienced exactly the same issues as you both have and, like you Don, I have lost two of my previously most stable channels KWWL out of Waterloo, IA and KCRG out of Cedar Rapids, IA.

I talked with a Dish tech last night and was told to contact my local retailer for a replacement unit. However, before I go down that path I'm going to give Don's rebooting procedure a try. It seems that, ever so slowly, the unit is recovering functionality. Maybe after enough reboots it will fully recover. One can only hope.


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## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Also for Mark,
I still can not get a weekly OTA timer to work. I have gone in and edit'd a weekly timer for same time period and changed just the channel, it automatically changes the pad time. Have tried to go back in and edit pads to 1/3 and save but it doesnt accept the changes. I have done several reboots and rescanned channels several times,, have tried using guide to create time and menu to create timer, nothing seems to work. I lost this function on L184.


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## dishguy (Feb 7, 2004)

With the latest 186 software I am now no longer able to tune to KVIE-DT in sacramento. Previous to this version I was able to get it no problem, signal was 110 out of 125. Now when I go to the screen and do a manual Add DTV, enter in the digital channel number (53), it doesn't lock anymore. Did all the standard stuff, power off reboots, delete lists, add lists, etc., no luck. I truly wish dish would stop adding new features and fix old ones first. Like, could we get back the local channels in the favorites list? Been awhile since this feature bit the dust..... Seems I am loosing more functionality with each version, sigh.....


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Redster - please start a new bug report thread about the weekly timer. I have some questions for you, but don't want to post them in this thread.


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## RICHARD BRANSTON (Jul 15, 2004)

rbyers,
Sorry for the misinformation. I cannot receive KCOP UPN 66.1 or KOCE PBS Huntington Beach 50.1. Both show over 100 signal strength when manually scanned and saved. only KOCE (50.1) appears in the guide without call sin and I cannot lock on to it.

Both channels appear in my 6000 guide and I know I have used it to watch KCOP 13 upn (66.1) but it not connect to the antenna now to verify.

I do receive cbs, nbc, ktla 5, abc, kcal 9, kttv 11fox, pbs kcet (28.1) and several other channels that I don't really watch.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

dishguy said:


> With the latest 186 software I am now no longer able to tune to KVIE-DT in sacramento. Previous to this version I was able to get it no problem, signal was 110 out of 125. Now when I go to the screen and do a manual Add DTV, enter in the digital channel number (53), it doesn't lock anymore. Did all the standard stuff, power off reboots, delete lists, add lists, etc., no luck. I truly wish dish would stop adding new features and fix old ones first. Like, could we get back the local channels in the favorites list? Been awhile since this feature bit the dust..... Seems I am loosing more functionality with each version, sigh.....


KVIE-DT has been off the air since at least 7/12. I sent them an email about this and they replied that they were having equipment problems and would be off the air all of the 13th and most of the 14th. As far as I can tell they have not fixed their problem yet, so at least in the case of KVIE-DT it's not the fault of L186.


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

Since L186 I lose the two channels overnight after the auto reboot. I am in the San Francisco Bay area and the channels are:

KCRA - Sacramento, CA Channel 35, PSIP channel 3, Phone: 916-446-3333

KXTV - Sacramento, CA Channel 61, PSIP channel 10, Phone: 916-441-2345
Chief Engineer [email protected]

The add DTV function does not work as well as in previous releases. When I try to add channel 61 I get a stong solid red signal bar (80-90), but it will not lock and be saved. When I try to add channel 35 I get an oscillating lock at 90, no lock at 0. This is even after performing a power cord reboot followed by a smartcard reboot. Both channels were stable with strong signals (90-100) before L186. I was eventually able to get KXTV back by doing a scan DTV, but I have not been able to get KCRA back.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Well, after a lot of reboots, and wrangling with the 921, I think everything is okay now. Yesterday, I lost channel 2.1 (FOX) in the morning, but today, I seem to have all of the channels! (Big sigh of relief!)

Here is what I think is going on, and why it all works now. We've talked about having corrupt channel mapping databases before to a very detailed extent.

Now, enter L186. I suspect that L186 fixes this issue. The problem is that if the channel map database was corrupted from *previous* versions, you are still going to have problems with L186 because the database is *still* corrupted from past releases. For me, it acted in very unpredictable ways, and was very unstable for some reasons that may not be completely attributed to this....

So, you have to completely wipe out all of the channels and create a new channel list. I had deleted all of my channels, except for channel 45 (KBHK) because it took me months to add it. That appears to be not good enough. I had done many reboots and setting to default settings, re-scans, etc.. The first few times, the 921 was barely functional even. I don't know what that was about. However, everything looks very good now, but only after I deleted every single channel, then re-scanned, then saved according to the DonLandis method of 'checking' everything.

I think it is imperitive for everyone having problems still to delete every single channel from your channel list to create a new, un-corrupted channel map database.

Finally, I think I need to change my vote in this poll to No, I'm not loosing channels after a nightly reboot (as of this morning anyway)! Wooo hoooo! Thanks for fixing this one Eldon!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

jsanders, I would concur with your conclusion. I do know that at least one of the OTA bug fixes in this release had to do with a "corruption" (not really an accurate description, but will do for now) in the OTA database. I suspect that if you delete all of your channels, save, reboot and then scan that should create a new, clean file. The reboot may not be necessary, but I don't think it's a bad idea.


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## sgt940 (Jan 9, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> jsanders, I would concur with your conclusion. I do know that at least one of the OTA bug fixes in this release had to do with a "corruption" (not really an accurate description, but will do for now) in the OTA database. I suspect that if you delete all of your channels, save, reboot and then scan that should create a new, clean file. The reboot may not be necessary, but I don't think it's a bad idea.


Mark, I am in Dallas and was one who would loose 5 of the 7 OTAs I watch on every reboot. Here is the good news. I have turned the unit off every night and created multiple manual reboots and ALL 7 of the stations stay and perform flawlessly. What ever they did in 186 was a big improvment whether it was the ability to overcome station issues or what ever. Just for testing I did an auto scan and picked up 18 believe it or not digital stations. Of the 18 stations three had blank screens, quite frankly I have never heard of these three stations so they may not even be real. Of the 15 that locked in (again some religious and spanish channels I did not know were out there) I put them through multiple reboots, of the 15 only one channel disapperared 68 (PAX) again a channel I was not familiar with. Right now I am a happy camper in the OTA area as I have 14 digital stations that are rock solid. Give me OTA guide data of any kind and fix the favorites list and I might just reccomend this box to others. On another note I had no issues with the download but I did plug it in and let it load the new software for about an hour before attempting to use.
An update, apparantly 68 may have been off the air as it came back on its own. Which means all 15 stations are stable.


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

jsanders said:


> Well, after a lot of reboots, and wrangling with the 921, I think everything is okay now. Yesterday, I lost channel 2.1 (FOX) in the morning, but today, I seem to have all of the channels! (Big sigh of relief!


Even KBHK? I have everything now but that. I get strong signal but it won't lock.

-Keith


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

keitheva said:


> Even KBHK? I have everything now but that. I get strong signal but it won't lock.
> 
> -Keith


Hi Keith,

Yes, I even get KBHK! KBHK was the one channel that caused all of my problems actually. I was afraid to delete it from the channel list. I deleted every channel, including KBHK, then saved it with no channels in the list. Then, I went back to the channels menu and did a re-scan last night. I got 18 stations, including KBHK. However, when I tuned to it last night, I got a blank screen, not a "channel x.x not found message". My other problematic station was KPIX (CBS), which owns KBHK. That one I got back with picture after deleting KBHK. Anyway, this morning, KBHK had a picture, and was working just fine! The moral of the story turned out to be to delete every channel, save it with nothing, then go back to the menu, re-add, check each channel's box, then save again.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> jsanders, I would concur with your conclusion. I do know that at least one of the OTA bug fixes in this release had to do with a "corruption" (not really an accurate description, but will do for now) in the OTA database. I suspect that if you delete all of your channels, save, reboot and then scan that should create a new, clean file. The reboot may not be necessary, but I don't think it's a bad idea.


Hi Mark,

It would be really cool if Dish/Eldon could confirm or deny that deleting the channel list completely, then saving the blank list would help with any "corruption" problems, or even incompatibility problems. If there was a problem with the previous channel list, and that list wasn't deleted, how would L186 treat it? Would it fix it on its own? If the list wasn't compatible (new fields, or fields re-arranged), how would L186 act? Anyway, if they think it there would be a problem, then it would be good for them to recommend an "Official L186 upgrade procedure" or something like that. I would hate for people to have lots of problems because they didn't delete the channel list when they should have......

I think the reboot isn't a bad idea either, at the very least, it would force people to save the blank list before they re-scan.

There have been a few people like myself that want their votes changed after wrangling with L186. Maybe if everyone followed an "official procedure", the results of this poll would change dramatically for the better!


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## RobbinMerritt (Jan 29, 2003)

Since the new download, I've not had any channels lost here in Houston. L186 is apparently helping some of us. 

Robbin


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

tnsprin said:


> At least after the initial download L186 i lost all the Digital OTA channels. I had not lost them with L185 or its nightly reboot. Hopefully this is a onetime occurance.
> 
> Located in NY area and lost wcbs-dt wnbc-dt wabc-dt wnyc-dt wwor-dt(shares with wnyc-dt) wpix-dt whli-dt and some others. Since I lost them all I don't think this is related to the individual stations so I don't think contact info is appropriate.


Note that since I rescanned them, I have not lost any of my OTA channels during the nightly reboot. So I lost them all with L186's original load, but have had no problem since.


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## keitheva (Aug 23, 2002)

jsanders said:


> Yes, I even get KBHK! The moral of the story turned out to be to delete every channel, save it with nothing, then go back to the menu, re-add, check each channel's box, then save again.


I did that, but still I couldn't add KBHK back manually - got a strong signal, but no lock. So then I tried an auto scan - bingo, KBHK appears. Go figure!

Cheers,
-Keith


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Keith, I tried your approach with autoscan but still no luck with the stations absent of PSIP. 


Got some interesting data on the Lack of DVR functions on certain stations. I finally got the HDTIVO to see the WJWB channel and once it locked onto it, the HDTIVO's DVR works fine with WJWB. 921 has no DVR functions on the same channel. Does this indicate that it's a 921 issue again?


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## evyst (Jul 5, 2004)

First off my boot version is 140B, Flash VersionFO52, Software update L186.
Since L186 all the OTA stations get rebooted every day, but it must not be happening until after 5:30 a.m. EST because Toledo channel 11 , digital 17, won't show up till later in the day.
The problem I have since L186 is that if I try to manually add an OTA station with a weak digital signal the unit will lock up completely and the only fix is to pull the card and do a complete reboot. I have waited over 15 minutes for the unit to respond after it freezes up, otherwise, but to no avail.
Outside of this, I like the unit, but sure would like OTA guide info. Work on this fix next. PLEASE!


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## Jim Kosinsky (Jul 20, 2003)

Jim Kosinsky said:


> Never have lost any OTA channels until 186...today I was missing 2-1 and 5-1. Did a rescan and they came back.


Just updating my puny contribution to this thread...I only lost the above channels once--since then I have not had to rescan or manually add them.

<knocks on forest>


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

OK, I voted "No" above, but my vote should actually be "Yes", since I am in fact experiencing the issue of losing a channel when the 921 reboots on L186 (which I hadn't previously noticed). I never had any problems losing digital OTA channels until L186; all of the previous releases have successfully scanned my channels and the channels have stayed in the list. Hence, this is new (negative) behavior present starting with L186.

Every morning when I wake up, the 921 has lost the Chicago NBC channel, WMAQ, channel 5-1 (29). When the channel is tuned, the 921 indicates that the channel can not be found. The channel can be added back to the list manually or through a re-scan, which allows it to be tuned until the next morning. This channel always worked fine on previous releases (i.e. there were no PSIP issues or the like).


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

RBYERS_ I had missed your question earlier-

I should have stated, every OTA receiver I have used has had some problem. Main point was the HDTIVO many think is perfect. I now have one and had to go to much trouble to get it to even see my locals. The signal level of acceptance is quite narrow but once precisely adjusted all the stations are now quite solid. Seems each has something that prevents it from being Plug n play.


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## JackS (Jul 5, 2004)

L186 has been a partial cure for me. In L184 I never lost the Boston OTA channels day to day. Then in L185 I lost all but one of the PBS channels (Channel 2, digital channel 19) every day. When L186 came down, I began retaining 6 local stations, but lose channel 7, WHDH-NBC (Digital 42), and subchannel 5-2 (WCRB-ABC, digital 20) The rest remain after the nightly reboot. Unfortunately, we watch local news on channel 7, so I have to manually add the station every day.


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## jgerow (Apr 12, 2004)

JackS said:


> L186 has been a partial cure for me. In L184 I never lost the Boston OTA channels day to day. Then in L185 I lost all but one of the PBS channels (Channel 2, digital channel 19) every day. When L186 came down, I began retaining 6 local stations, but lose channel 7, WHDH-NBC (Digital 42), and subchannel 5-2 (WCRB-ABC, digital 20) The rest remain after the nightly reboot. Unfortunately, we watch local news on channel 7, so I have to manually add the station every day.


For me in Boston, I never lost any channels until L186, and now I lose the [low-bandwidth] weather radar 5-2 subchannel (physical channel 20), as well as 7-1 (physical 42).
However, I do not lose the main channel 5-1 and indeed it records M-F fine.


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## DanB33 (Nov 17, 2003)

I Originally, with Ver L185, lost WOOD-DT on reboot. With Ver L186 I lost WXMI-DT. Both reported earlier in the thread.
After deleating all Locals, Saving, Rebooting with no Locals, and Scanning ATV and DVT and Manually adding 0ne station in a different direction, Ihave not lost a station on Reboot.
Maybe there is something to clearing locals and rebooting.


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## Rogueone (Jan 29, 2004)

about 2 weeks ago I finally sprung for a professional roof top antenna install. Prior to that, I was just using a RS amplified UHF antenna on top of my TV. I could get WJLA (ABC) and WUSA (CBS) from Washington DC when I had the antenna pointed on way, and I could get WTTG (Fox) and WRC (NBC) if I turned the antenna. I never was able to get WETA (PBS) or the WB station.

With the new antenna, I did a scan for DTV signals, and received the 4 majors without a hitch as well as all 4 PBS channels and the 2 WB channels (though those are just strong enough to lock, and just week enough to not have a stable picture)

Before the new antenna, I would normally have to delete/re-add one of the stations so I could watch any of them. Since I've had the new antenna up, I've had no issues tuning the OTA channels, nor have I had to do the delete/re-add trick. So does signal strength have something to do with all this maybe?


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

AAAAAAAAAAh , Could Be......


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