# Defective LNB - No even 103(b) transponders



## turbrodude (Sep 18, 2006)

I think I have a bad LNB. On 103(b) I get all zeros on the even transponders. My odd transponders aren't so good but at least there is a reading. Nothing higher than 30% though. My friend nearby has even's and odd's lit up, not to mention much higher signal strength. 

But 110 and 119 all have even and odd tranponders with good signal strength and I think they use the same 18v and 13v with the 22 khz tone. Right? So I think the LNB is bad and the dish probably needs a better alignment. Do you guys agree?


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## Rakul (Sep 3, 2007)

I think I read in another thread that it might be the multiswitch, first question would be do you have one? Second if you do is it one of the approved MS's? Zinwell WB68 and WB616 I think are the model #s.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes, the 110° and 119° TPs are stacked with the 103°(a) and (b) signals, so if you have both evens and odds on 119° with good signals that is a good sign that your cables are good from dish to switch.

Next I'd check the BBCs and the multiswitch. If you have any switch other than a WB68 or WB616 from Zinwell, your problem is most likely the switch.

Cheers,
Tom


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## turbrodude (Sep 18, 2006)

Well its a Zinwell WB68. I checked the output voltage of the 18v line and it was fine (but like I said, the 110 and 119 have even and odds just fine). Ch 499 seems to work correctly (searches for signal) so I have thought that my BBCs were fine. 

I can't wait to call Customer Service. "Yah, something is wrong with my setup... no, my channels all work right now, but I won't be able to get all the new HD channels on Wednesday"
CSR "How do you know, they haven't been turned on yet?"


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Do you have more than one BBC you can swap around a bit? If the switch is good, cables are good, the next easy thing to check is the BBCs.

Cheers,
Tom


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## sylvanir (Sep 14, 2007)

Have you tried rubbing the multiswitch with a medium sized baking potato?

Sorry, just an old joke.

*resumes hiding*


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Welcome to the forums, sylvanir! :welcome_s

Cheers,
Tom


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## sylvanir (Sep 14, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Welcome to the forums, sylvanir! :welcome_s
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Thanks, Just burning some time here while waiting for my night at work to end.

Hope to spread the knowledge I have, and hopefully pick up a few things in the process.


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

i've got the same problem as "turbrodude" except my odd transponders are 0 on the 103a and b. If I switch the lines on the ports at the dish (i.e. connect the same line from the multiswitch into another port on the dish), the odd transponder 0's to move to the 101.

anyway, I have a tech coming out tomorrow to troubleshoot/fix the problem.
I'll post back with what we find out (bad lines or bad multiswitch or bad LNB or other)

other details: I've tried six different BBCs and have the same issue with all of them. My signal strengths are in the high 80s and 90s.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

turbrodude said:


> I think I have a bad LNB. On 103(b) I get all zeros on the even transponders. My odd transponders aren't so good but at least there is a reading. Nothing higher than 30% though. My friend nearby has even's and odd's lit up, not to mention much higher signal strength.
> 
> But 110 and 119 all have even and odd tranponders with good signal strength and I think they use the same 18v and 13v with the 22 khz tone. Right? So I think the LNB is bad and the dish probably needs a better alignment. Do you guys agree?


I have the exact same thing happening here in Maryland. Evens only. I also have high signal strength on all tps on the 101, 110, 119 and 99 ---- but only 70's on the even tps of the 103 a & b. I suspect a bad connection from the 13v side of the lnb but can't understand why that wouldn't affect the other sats. Called *D techs this am and was told not to worry, they said wait until tomorrow when the HD was cutover. I read where everybody else in the world has good readings on all 103b transponders so I think something is wrong. I only have an AT9 dish feeding one H20-100 box. No multi switch.


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

right there with ya skinsfan. I also have an AT9 dish. i'll let you know what happens at tomorrow's appt.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

Are the connections on the 99 & 103 lnb at the dish considered a multi switch? That lnb is jumped to the 101/110/119 lnb. So, like it was previously stated, if the other sat tps are working, there may be nothing wrong. It could be that our H20-100s don't need to get the odd 103's. Remember the H20-100's had to get a "late arriving" update to even see 499 "searching" message. We also in the D.C. area have been getting our local HD off the 119. Maybe we will be using the odds from 119 and the evens from 103b. Tomorrow will be so much fun. With the Skins Win, I am already worn out.:hurah:


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

let's hope so. I'll be sure to be up early so I can check it all out prior to work. hopefully they'll come on in the morning and I can cancel my afternoon service call.

GO SKINS!


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## Chapper (Jul 31, 2007)

Turbrodude...how do you check the voltage on the RG6?


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

kmkraft_1974 said:


> right there with ya skinsfan. I also have an AT9 dish. i'll let you know what happens at tomorrow's appt.


kmkraft, how did your service call turn out? :nono:


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

canceled the call since the new HD channels weren't launched today. Don't really have an issue as-is. didn't reschedule either.....guess I'll wait and see and fix from there if I'm having problems.


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## John4924 (Mar 19, 2007)

kmkraft_1974 said:


> canceled the call since the new HD channels weren't launched today. Don't really have an issue as-is. didn't reschedule either.....guess I'll wait and see and fix from there if I'm having problems.


Do you have any sort of in-line boosters in the sat lines? There was another sub that had a problem very similar to yours and it turned out that these were the problem. Just a thought.

Cheers,
John

Edit: Another thought, are you diplexing OTA?


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

kmkraft_1974 said:


> canceled the call since the new HD channels weren't launched today. Don't really have an issue as-is. didn't reschedule either.....guess I'll wait and see and fix from there if I'm having problems.


I hear you. I did call a local service guy that I have been using since a nightmare install from D. I set it up yesterday thinking we would have something to work with. He couldn't come until Friday. I am going to let him come. I am pretty sure I have a problem. I am going to check the connections at the dish. If that doesn't clear things up I suspect it is the LNB. Hope he has parts, he has been busy all week.


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

John4924 said:


> Do you have any sort of in-line boosters in the sat lines? There was another sub that had a problem very similar to yours and it turned out that these were the problem. Just a thought.
> 
> Cheers,
> John
> ...


no in-line boosters and not diplexing OTA. I have a sneaking suspicion one of the ports from the dish is bad.


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

Skins Fan said:


> I hear you. I did call a local service guy that I have been using since a nightmare install from D. I set it up yesterday thinking we would have something to work with. He couldn't come until Friday. I am going to let him come. I am pretty sure I have a problem. I am going to check the connections at the dish. If that doesn't clear things up I suspect it is the LNB. Hope he has parts, he has been busy all week.


let me know what you find out. i'll be calling dtv tomorrow to try and setup another appt...


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## gpg (Aug 19, 2006)

Please post your results of your service call because I have the same issues as the OP on 103b. My even tps are much lower than the odds, I have a WB68 multiswitch and I've replaced the bbcs with no change in results. I've also swapped the cables around with no change resulting. My signals on 110 and 119 are in the 90's. My signals on even tps on 103b are in the 50s, the odds are in the low 80s to high 70s.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

turbrodude said:


> I think I have a bad LNB. On 103(b) I get all zeros on the even transponders. My odd transponders aren't so good but at least there is a reading. Nothing higher than 30% though. My friend nearby has even's and odd's lit up, not to mention much higher signal strength.
> 
> But 110 and 119 all have even and odd tranponders with good signal strength and I think they use the same 18v and 13v with the 22 khz tone. Right? So I think the LNB is bad and the dish probably needs a better alignment. Do you guys agree?


You are not alone. Doesn't sound like alignment. What kind of dish is that? What brand of LNB?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

This may still be an alignment issue. I have noticed that when the 5-lnb dish is not correctly aligned for 103(b), the even transponders drop off much faster in signal strength than the odd ones. The LNB and dish don't perform the same for left-hand and right-hand polarization I guess, when you are off-axis. I did a complete realignment of my AT-9 5-lnb today, since my 103(b) signals were OK but not great. As I moved the 5-lnb dish in elevation (coarse elevation adjustment) I noticed that when my odd transponders were at high 80s, my even ones were about 6 points lower. With odds at 80, my even ones were at 65 or so. When my odd transponders were at 30, my even ones were at zero. 
When I finished alignment, everything on 103(b) was mid-90s. 
So yes, you may have a faulty LNB. But it may be worth looking at alignment first.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> This may still be an alignment issue. I have noticed that when the 5-lnb dish is not correctly aligned for 103(b), the even transponders drop off much faster in signal strength than the odd ones. The LNB and dish don't perform the same for left-hand and right-hand polarization I guess, when you are off-axis. I did a complete realignment of my AT-9 5-lnb today, since my 103(b) signals were OK but not great. As I moved the 5-lnb dish in elevation (coarse elevation adjustment) I noticed that when my odd transponders were at high 80s, my even ones were about 6 points lower. With odds at 80, my even ones were at 65 or so. When my odd transponders were at 30, my even ones were at zero.
> When I finished alignment, everything on 103(b) was mid-90s.
> So yes, you may have a faulty LNB. But it may be worth looking at alignment first.


Yeah, I'm sorry. Got him confused with another poster who had high 103(a) readings. They're everywhere. So turbrodude, what are _your_ 103(a) readings? Sounds like you _do_ need an alignment.

BTW, very interesting observation, texasbrit, about the RHCP/LHCP Don't think it'll help the guys with the high 103(a) readings with the odd/even 103(b) problem, though, and you may be one of them. I don't think you said if you ever got the odd/evens to match when you were peaked, or what your 103(a's) were then...


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I thought I saw it posted that everyone's evens were lower than the odds on 103b?

I get one even in the 90's, I think it is 22, the rest are in the 80s or 70s. My odds are all 90s, as I recall.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

FWIW, my problem and readings in summary goes like this: 

On the 103a I get 0's on on odd tps. On the even tps I get 78,92,68

On the 103b I get 0's on odd tps. On the even tps I get (at this writing, they were higher yesterday) 48,52,50,61,57,66,63,76.

All other sats are in the high 90's (95 to 100) on all transponders.

I do not have a multiswitch or diplexer, just dish (AT9) to H20-100.

Located in central Maryland.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Same here in South Carolina with the same setup (AT9 only, no other switches or diplexers). What are the chances we all have defective equip or misaligned dishes?


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## McCoyRJ (May 21, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, the 110° and 119° TPs are stacked with the 103°(a) and (b) signals, so if you have both evens and odds on 119° with good signals that is a good sign that your cables are good from dish to switch.
> 
> Next I'd check the BBCs and the multiswitch. If you have any switch other than a WB68 or WB616 from Zinwell, your problem is most likely the switch.
> 
> ...


Tom,

I had a Slimline dish installed when I purchased the HD package, but the installer left on the DTV4X8 multiswitch that was installed with my old dish. Should I have the multiswitch replaced?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

You may have faulty LNBs but my post was just to point out that it might be just alignment.
I started out with readings on 101 and 110 which were OK but not great - 90s and high 80s on 101, high 80s on 110 and excellent 95-99 readings on 119. My "local" HD transponder on 103(a) was at 95. But my 103(b) readings were not good - mainly 80s with a couple of high 70s. And the even TPs were all lower than the odds. So I re-aligned. I had not done a 5-lnb before; many 3-lnb dishes though. I use a small TV on the end of a long RG-6 from a modulator attached to my H20. First I adjusted the "fine tune" for both azimuth and elevation using the 101 satellite, following the installation instructions for my AT-9. Saw virtually no change. Then I repeated this but using the 103(a) sat signals instead. Picked up a few points on signal strength but not much. So I started the elevation alignment again from the beginning, and that's when I noticed how fast the even transponders dropped off when the elevation was too low (I should have tried with the elevation too high to see which transponders dropped off fastest - maybe it would have been the odds). Aligning the elevation using the 103(b) signals - first the coarse elevation then "fine tune" - gave me excellent numbers on 103(b). 
And improved on all my other numbers also. My lowest 101 signal other than the spotbeams is 96, I have nine transponders at 100. On 110 94 is my lowest, on 119 95 is my lowest and I have six at 100. On 103(a) my locals transponder is now at 100 also. Even on 99(b), where the signals are for other cities, I have two transponders in the 90s. And my 103(b) signals range from 92 to 98. 
Turbrodude has 30 on odds and zero on evens on 103(b). That indicates a probable alignment issue. Skinsfan has the other way round, poor signals on evens and zero on odds. That also indicates a probable alignment issue. If you have 90s on one set of transponders and zero on the others, that sounds like multiswitch/cable/connectors or the LNB.

What my alignment showed me is you can have OK signals on 101, 110 and 119, and even on 103(a), but still not get great signals on 103(b), and that the odd and even 103(b) transponder strengths do behave differently if you are not quite on the peak of the beam.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

Well, I just took the AT9 apart (lnb connect block). like Tom said, 2 cables come out of the 101/110/119 LNB (stacked) and into the side of the 99/103 LNB. No big surprise there, check and tightend all connections. No help.

The one thing I have not mentioned yet is that the strongest signals I have are on the 119 at 98's & 100's. The 101 & 110 are 95's with a few 100's. The 99 shows odd tps in the mid 80's, even tps in the mid 70's

Ok then, I put a mobile radio (walky-talky) at the recvr speaker and took the other one with me to the dish. With the H20 set to tp 4 on the 103b, I gently put pressure, side-to-side and up-and-down, allowing for the signal to kick in--------NO CHANGE in signal strength, with the amount of difference I was allowed to move the dish around, which was way more than enough . Really no higher or lower signal rate on the even. Tried it on one of the odds, and still no signal at all.

If I had another BBC I could try that but I don't. I did order a couple more though. I am still unsure why the BBC would be the cuprit. Maybe Tom or someone can enlighten me. I understand if I remove it and checked the signal that way, I would not get anything anyway. So I would need another one, which might not work either. I still have a tech coming tomorrow. I was just hoping I could save some money and get lucky. He might want to change to a slim-line altogether.


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## alwayscool (Sep 24, 2006)

Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in. The AT-9 dish has been replaced by the Slimline dish because D* was having too many problems with it. Also the TP's on the 103(b) are being tested so they have been going on and off since 9/14/07 with different signal strenghts.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> I thought I saw it posted that everyone's evens were lower than the odds on 103b?
> 
> I get one even in the 90's, I think it is 22, the rest are in the 80s or 70s. My odds are all 90s, as I recall.


No, just some people. What brand of LNB is mounted at the end of your dish arm? They are still adjusting the transponder strengths, but you should not be seeing a clear discrepancy between _all_ the odds and _all_ the evens. Right now, I am seeing all 95+ on everything but tp's 8, 10, & 12, which are 90+. All the other evens are 95+.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> No, just some people. What brand of LNB is mounted at the end of your dish arm? They are still adjusting the transponder strengths, but you should not be seeing a clear discrepancy between _all_ the odds and _all_ the evens. Right now, I am seeing all 95+ on everything but tp's 8, 10, & 12, which are 90+. All the other evens are 95+.


What my experiments with alignment on the AT-9 (not the slimline) seemed to confirm was this.

If you do not have any signals on 103(b) at all, it's almost certain you have a diplexer, or the wrong multiswitch, or your dish/multiswitch settings are wrong in antenna setup.

If you have low (80s or less) signals on 103(b), you can see lower signals on one set of transponders than on the other. It seems to be how the dish performs when it's not exactly in the middle of the 103(b) beam. This may be only on the AT-9, not the slimline, I have no way of knowing.

If your 103(b) signals are in the low to mid-90s, any odd/even signal strength difference seems to disappear.

You can have good signal strength on 103(a) and still not have great signals on 103(b). My 103(a) was 95 and my 103(b) were only in the low 80s. After re-alignment, 103(b) are all 92+ and my 103(a) locals transponder for DFW is now at 100.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> .....If your 103(b) signals are in the low to mid-90s, any odd/even signal strength difference seems to disappear.
> 
> You can have good signal strength on 103(a) and still not have great signals on 103(b). My 103(a) was 95 and my 103(b) were only in the low 80s. After re-alignment, 103(b) are all 92+ and my 103(a) locals transponder for DFW is now at 100.


That's extremely interesting and simultaneously problematic for many people here. What this means is, that you can be in the mid-90's on 103(a) while being on the verge of premature rain fade on either the odd or even 103(b) tp's, depending upon which way you are ever so slightly mis-aligned. Therefore, if I completely understand what you are saying, those who have mid-90's on the 103(a) and are experiencing the odd/even problem on 103(b) may need further alignment, since you _were_ finally able to eliminate the odd/even problem and attain uniform 90+ 103(b) signals on your AT9. We will see if this interesting report applies to dishes/LNB's other than the AT9 as reports continue to appear, I'm sure.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> That's extremely interesting and simultaneously problematic for many people here. What this means is, that you can be in the mid-90's on 103(a) while being on the verge of premature rain fade on either the odd or even 103(b) tp's, depending upon which way you are ever so slightly mis-aligned. Therefore, if I completely understand what you are saying, those who have mid-90's on the 103(a) and are experiencing the odd/even problem on 103(b) may need further alignment, since you _were_ finally able to eliminate the odd/even problem and attain uniform 90+ 103(b) signals on your AT9. We will see if this interesting report applies to dishes/LNB's other than the AT9 as reports continue to appear, I'm sure.


Absolutely right. I had expected with a signal level of 92 on my HD locals transponder for 103(a), 103(b) would be similar, but it was not. A couple of other people have posted similarly - getting close to 100 on 103(a) but only 80s on 103(b), doing a realignment and bringing the 103(b) signals well into the 90s with the 
103(a) still being close to 100. Also other comments about the odd/even phenomenon. It does seem to depend in which direction is the misalignment. Some people have reported odds greater than evens, some the other way around, and the difference disappearing as you get into the 90s on signal strength.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> Absolutely right. I had expected with a signal level of 92 on my HD locals transponder for 103(a), 103(b) would be similar, but it was not. A couple of other people have posted similarly - getting close to 100 on 103(a) but only 80s on 103(b), doing a realignment and bringing the 103(b) signals well into the 90s with the
> 103(a) still being close to 100. Also other comments about the odd/even phenomenon. It does seem to depend in which direction is the misalignment. Some people have reported odds greater than evens, some the other way around, and the difference disappearing as you get into the 90s on signal strength.


What this means then, and thanks for the detailed investigation and reporting, is that there are a LOT of people, particularly those with the odd/even problem, who are going to need a rather precise dish re-alignment. I would not be at all satisfied myself with numbers below the 90's for the 103(b) because of the more prevalent rain fade issue on the Ka satellites in general, and those 90+ numbers, as you, me, and many have already shown, _are_ attainable nationwide. We get a _lot_ of rain...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I just got a precise dish alignment an hour ago. They spent over 1 1/2 hours on it (2 guys, including a supervisor). They would not leave and lock in until they peaked on all sats. This photo shows the new peak readings on 103b (*before their work, the readings were in the 50's and 60's)*.

It's important to note that Sat 101 is at all 95-100 readings, Sat 119 93-99 readings, and Sat 110 90+ readings, so this 5LNB baby is as high as ever since day one.

That said, you'll notice only 2 transponders on 103b in the 90's here, *so perhaps until they actually turn the channels on, we don't necessarily have the true readings.*


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just got a precise dish alignment an hour ago. They spent over 1 1/2 hours on it (2 guys, including a supervisor). They would not leave and lock in until they peaked on all sats. This photo shows the new peak readings on 103b (*before their work, the readings were in the 50's and 60's)*.
> 
> It's important to note that Sat 101 is at all 95-100 readings, Sat 119 93-99 readings, and Sat 110 90+ readings, so this 5LNB baby is as high as ever since day one.
> 
> That said, you'll notice only 2 transponders on 103b in the 90's here, *so perhaps until they actually turn the channels on, we don't necessarily have the true readings.*


Well I don't know how we can account for this, although they obviously made a _tremendous_ improvement. I guess the only thing you can do is wait for the rain and see what happens. Still running 91 to 98 here through cloud cover and has been all day. Is that a -100 or a -700 whose signal meters you're reading?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

K4SMX said:


> Well I don't know how we can account for this, although they obviously made a _tremendous_ improvement.


Yes, going from 50's to a 61 high up to 80's with a 94 high is a major jump. All the other sats gained about 2-3 points per transponder, but 103b leaped up a ton.


K4SMX said:


> Is that a -100 or a -700 whose signal meters you're reading?


HR20-700.

I have 3 HR20-700 DVR's and an H20-600 receiver , all of them are within 1 point of the same levels on all transponders. The H20-600 actually is 2 points higher on 3-4 of the 101 Sat transponder readings, but otherwise, all the rest are within 1 point.


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## turbrodude (Sep 18, 2006)

Chapper said:


> Turbrodude...how do you check the voltage on the RG6?


Just put a voltmeter across the centerpin and outer metal part of the connector. Red line to the centerpin, black line to the metal threaded part.


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## turbrodude (Sep 18, 2006)

So the techs came out and fixed the problem. I was right all along - it was a bad LNB. They pulled the CalAMP LNB off and replaced it with a WNC LNB. All the even transponders came to life. 

Before: Odd transponders on 103(b) were at roughly 30 signal strength. Evens were all zero.
After: Odds shot up to 60-70, evens also came alive up to 60 or 70 signal strength.

So I convinced the tech to realign and I now have 80-90 signal strenghts on 103b, all transponders. Sat 101 went from upper 80s to upper 90s too.

It was a nightmare getting these guys to do what I asked in the first place. They come in and ask "what channels don't you get? What's your error message?" They didn't want to fix anything and tried to convince me that 103b wasn't on yet. I had to talk to their supervisor on the phone and convince them to swap out the multiswitch and the LNB and see what happens. It all worked out in the end. I'm ready for the HD channels now baby!!


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yes, going from 50's to a 61 high up to 80's with a 94 high is a major jump. All the other sats gained about 2-3 points per transponder, but 103b leaped up a ton.
> HR20-700.
> 
> I have 3 HR20-700 DVR's and an H20-600 receiver , all of them are within 1 point of the same levels on all transponders. The H20-600 actually is 2 points higher on 3-4 of the 101 Sat transponder readings, but otherwise, all the rest are within 1 point.


Wonder what kind of LNB is mounted on that AT9? I'm gonna have to start keeping some kind of logbook on dish specifics vs. results after re-alignment. This is rapidly getting out of hand in my mind! Were you able to observe exactly what procedure these guys used in their alignment or was there any discussion of that? I agree, H20-700's and H20-600's all are getting relatively close ss numbers these days.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

turbrodude said:


> So the techs came out and fixed the problem. I was right all along - it was a bad LNB. They pulled the CalAMP LNB off and replaced it with a WNC LNB. All the even transponders came to life.
> 
> Before: Odd transponders on 103(b) were at roughly 30 signal strength. Evens were all zero.
> After: Odds shot up to 60-70, evens also came alive up to 60 or 70 signal strength.
> ...


Mark one Calamp down. Thanks for starting the thread. This odd/even business is going somewhere - right now down two separate paths: _bad_ LNB's and _mis-aligned_ dishes.

You didn't have the odd/even problem that texasbrit had, because before re-alignment, when you were at 60-70, there would have been an odd/even disparity.


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> Mark one Calamp down. Thanks for starting the thread. This odd/even business is going somewhere - right now down two separate paths: _bad_ LNB's and _mis-aligned_ LNB's.
> 
> You didn't have the odd/even problem that texasbrit had, because before re-alignment, when you were at 60-70, there would have been an odd/even disparity.


My 5 lnb says "Eagle Aspen" on it (although the mounting bracket with the fine tuning adjustments has the same configeration as the WNC shown in the installation manual from Solid Signal's website). Is that a Calamp or a WNC or a whole different one?


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## ohiosnowman (May 9, 2007)

Hansen said:


> My 5 lnb says "Eagle Aspen" on it (although the mounting bracket with the fine tuning adjustments has the same configeration as the WNC shown in the installation manual from Solid Signal's website). Is that a Calamp or a WNC or a whole different one?


I said it once already and Ill say it again, I would not touch your dish until that bird is lit and the channels are on. That way you know that they have it tweaked the way they want it.


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

ohiosnowman said:


> I said it once already and Ill say it again, I would not touch your dish until that bird is lit and the channels are on. That way you know that they have it tweaked the way they want it.


Thanks but how does that answer my question?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

K4SMX said:


> Wonder what kind of LNB is mounted on that AT9?


It's the boxcar 2-piece DirecTV logo LNB set that came with the first dishes. I was the 2nd one installed in my state when HD came out, and actually have had solid signal strength on all channels since.

That said, it was interesting to see them loosen all the Dish settings, connect the Bird-dog meter, and then reset all the settings to the max levels for all sats.

The other thing I learned a long time ago is that the strength settings you see on the screen are a close (but not exact) reflection on the data stream, not actual signal strength. The firmware is designed to give you levels from 0 to 100 for comparative purposes.

In addition, each hardware device (DVR/receiver) can be internally 1-2 points off within the tuner itself from another identical model device.

Bottom line, one man's 100 is another man's 97. In the end, anything over 80 you are pretty safe, and 75+ gets you home most of the time. If you're in the 90's or higher, you should see nominal rain fade effect.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Hansen said:


> My 5 lnb says "Eagle Aspen" on it (although the mounting bracket with the fine tuning adjustments has the same configeration as the WNC shown in the installation manual from Solid Signal's website). Is that a Calamp or a WNC or a whole different one?


That's the third type, thanks!


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's the boxcar 2-piece DirecTV logo LNB set that came with the first dishes. I was the 2nd one installed in my state when HD came out, and actually have had solid signal strength on all channels since.
> 
> That said, it was interesting to see them loosen all the Dish settings, connect the Bird-dog meter, and then reset all the settings to the max levels for all sats.
> 
> ...


I notice you've got a lot of equipment in your lines, and I have no idea how long your cable runs are, or what their quality is. It might be an interesting experiment sometime, just for drill, to run a single, short, brand new cable directly to your dish to see what your readings are. Could be that those guys out at the dish were getting higher signals out there than you're getting inside.


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## Smooth Jazzer (Sep 5, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just got a precise dish alignment an hour ago. They spent over 1 1/2 hours on it (2 guys, including a supervisor). They would not leave and lock in until they peaked on all sats. This photo shows the new peak readings on 103b (*before their work, the readings were in the 50's and 60's)*.
> 
> It's important to note that Sat 101 is at all 95-100 readings, Sat 119 93-99 readings, and Sat 110 90+ readings, so this 5LNB baby is as high as ever since day one.
> 
> That said, you'll notice only 2 transponders on 103b in the 90's here, *so perhaps until they actually turn the channels on, we don't necessarily have the true readings.*


This is MHO of your situation:
-You did NOT mention: trees and the weather. Trees affecting LOS and the weather combined affect reception respectively
-I safely assume that the condition of the rest of the equipment is Normal and fully operational.

This is my set-up with two H20-600:
My location is 35.8N, 76.9W. Azimuth 225, Elev. 42 and Tilt is 61 degrees
When I first had the slimline dish installed I had poor reception due to a LOT of trees giving me a poor LOS. The dish location was moved where I have clear LOS. After the first installer left I had the following SS's: 101-80%, 110-75%, 119-75%. The second installer came and improved 110 to 80% and 119 to 85%. The third installer came and I told him to leave the dish alignment alone:NOT TO Touch it. I was NOT aware that the receivers have been automatically upgraded to the 2024 software. The third installer reset the receiver to 5 LNB's. We checked the SS's and I got 101-97%, 110-95% and 119-98%-100%.
About a week ago when everybody was posting the 103b TPS readings I was getting 95% ave. for the first 14 TPS and 100% for TPS 17&24 respectively. Then later on I discovered that I was getting a 97% SS for 103b. During all those times that I have quoted you all those readings the weather was great.
K4SMX (Stew in Florida) on post #38 has made my point which is the rainy weather affecting the signals. I live in NC as you can tell by the Lat and Long. readings I gave you. It has been raining steadily during this afternoon. These are the readings when it was raining: 101-95%, 110-87%, 119-96% and 103b-88%
The rain has stopped but it is very cloudy. My current SS's are:
101-96%, 110-94%, 119-98%. 103b SS is 94%. These are the 103b TPS readings: 01-08>95, 95, 94, 95, 93, 95, 93, 94
09-14>93, 84, 91, 94, 92, 94 NA NA
TPS 17 & 24 read 97% and 98% respectively.
BTW there are at least 100 FEET of wire bewteen the dish the first TV!

According to you it took the tech and the supervisor "1½" hours. An experienced competent tech would have done the job in 45 minutes. The "supervisor" was the TEACHER and the "tech" a STUDENT or TRAINEE.
I must mention that the second D* tech that came to my house adjusted the elevation and the tilt resulting on the very improved readings. My final two cents if you have to place a work order tell the D* CSR that you want that tech that you like the best. That tech has an ID number that the CSR has access to. You don't have to give the CSR the tech's name.
Thank you


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

K4SMX said:


> I notice you've got a lot of equipment in your lines, and I have no idea how long your cable runs are, or what their quality is. It might be an interesting experiment sometime, just for drill, to run a single, short, brand new cable directly to your dish to see what your readings are. Could be that those guys out at the dish were getting higher signals out there than you're getting inside.


I actually had an HR20 running for testing strengths within 12 feet of the dish at one point earlier today to test that. My readings were actually very, very close to what they are in the HR20's final home.

I actually do have high-end RG6 cables, all new high-end compression connectors on everything, and other premium components within the line infrastructure to assure a quality signal throughout.

The fact that I have almost identical signal strengths throughout a 4700 sq foot home on all three levels and at varying lengths of coax from the switch validates just how solid the whole communications setup is. I actually have *several transponders *on 101 and 119 *at 100*, with many others at 98 or 99...so I'm very pleased with those results.

My point was that as far as the 103b readings, the installer indicated he had now tested about 30 homes this past week on 103b, and mine were actually the 2nd highest levels he had seen, with 2 transponders in the 90's and the others at 81 -89.

What was equally interesting is how he managed to tweak 101, 110, and 119 to their highest levels ever, which was perhaps a 3-4 singal level point bump upwards, while the 103b sat went from 51-63 at first up to 81-94 now...*a 30 point jump up.*

The changes they made were very minor, I mean, *very small *in the actual adjustments needed. I watched the whole process as they set things and used the Bird-dog meter. I'd say the adjustments were less than 1/8" on any setting.

Bottom line, at least in my case, the Dish reset (free because of the D*TV service plan I have) was well worth getting.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Smooth Jazzer said:


> This is MHO of your situation:
> -You did NOT mention: trees and the weather. Trees affecting LOS and the weather combined affect reception respectively
> -I safely assume that the condition of the rest of the equipment is Normal and fully operational.


Clean line of sight - no trees
Yes all equipment works perfectly


> According to you it took the tech and the supervisor "1½" hours. An experienced competent tech would have done the job in 45 minutes.


Actually, the tuning part was maybe 20-30 minutes, the rest was all of us having a conversation about various aspects of the new HD channels, etc. The work part was less than half an hour.


> The "supervisor" was the TEACHER and the "tech" a STUDENT or TRAINEE.


The supervisor did all the work, and yes, the other installer was 6 months on the job, but just observed.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I actually had an HR20 running for testing strengths within 12 feet of the dish at one point earlier today to test that. My readings were actually very, very close to what they are in the HR20's final home.
> 
> I actually do have high-end RG6 cables, all new high-end compression connectors on everything, and other premium components within the line infrastructure to assure a quality signal throughout.
> 
> ...


That all sounds most excellent, and aren't you glad you did that?! It would be good to get some more local reports to compare with what the installers said, but you would have to volunteer, at least temporarily and perhaps only for the benefit of this thread, what "local" is for you, because I believe it's possible to get those high Ku numbers and still not be peaked on the Ka satellites, they're that critical. By way of comparison, you never posted any after-alignment 103(a) numbers, so I take it you have no HD locals. That's too bad, because that would be interesting information to back up your 103(b) as having been fully peaked by your installer and his trainee.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

HDTVfan - I can attest to the fact thet the difference between poor signals and great signals involves very small changes.
One comment: did you notice that with your signals the odds are always lower than the evens? My theory (based on my own observations and one other) is that this indicates that although your signals are massively improved there is still a minor alignment error. As you move away from the absolute peak of the beam, one set of transponders seems to drop in strength faster than the other. The set that drops will depend on which side of "perfection" you are. I guess one set of transponders uses right-hand polarization and the other side left-hand. The dish seems to perform slightly differently to each polarization as you move away from "perfection".
Of course, it's also possible that the odd/even phenomenon shows up even when the dish is aimed the best it can be in that particular location, I don't know. I guess we can only really evaluate this when we see what signals people are getting in different locations. Here in DFW after my own realignment yesterday, I am getting 88-98 on 103(b). My lowest is 88 on TP7, which moves between 88 and 91 depending on the time of day.


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## tvhawaii (May 14, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, the 110° and 119° TPs are stacked with the 103°(a) and (b) signals, so if you have both evens and odds on 119° with good signals that is a good sign that your cables are good from dish to switch.
> 
> Next I'd check the BBCs and the multiswitch. If you have any switch other than a WB68 or WB616 from Zinwell, your problem is most likely the switch.
> 
> ...


Tom...

Are the downlinks on 103 B the same modulation/encryption scheme as on the other DirecTV birds?

Thanks,

--Michael


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

K4SMX said:


> By way of comparison, you never posted any after-alignment 103(a) numbers, so I take it you have no HD locals. That's too bad, because that would be interesting information to back up your 103(b) as having been fully peaked by your installer and his trainee.


Yes, I have HD locals, both D*TV and OTA.

My OTA signals range in the 100 range for 2 locals to 90+ for the rest.

As far as 103a...

The 103a signals also just about doubled in signal strength to their new levels - *never* had any problems at the previous levels via either OTA or D*TV.

As a final note to your question. I actually know 3 of the others out of the 30 that he referenced that were installed previously and had recent tunings the past 7-10 days. I'm the one who suggested that they have the Dish realighnments. All of those folks have levels about 2-4 points less than mine afterwards, so I can at least say mine is the strongest of that bunch.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

texasbrit said:


> HDTVfan - I can attest to the fact thet the difference between poor signals and great signals involves very small changes.
> One comment: did you notice that with your signals the odds are always lower than the evens? My theory (based on my own observations and one other) is that this indicates that although your signals are massively improved there is still a minor alignment error. As you move away from the absolute peak of the beam, one set of transponders seems to drop in strength faster than the other.


As you can see in my photos, my odd-even alignment variations match up to yours.

My theory is that we won't know what the final settings really are until they light up the new channels themselves to "live" mode. The reason I say that is that all other sats do not share the same odd-even alignments.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yes, I have HD locals, both D*TV and OTA.
> 
> My OTA signals range in the 100 range for 2 locals to 90+ for the rest.
> 
> ...


Well at least your 103(a) numbers correlate with your 103(b) ones. Do you know if your 3 recently-aligned acquaintances with numbers less than your 103(b)'s also have AT9's?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

K4SMX said:


> Well at least your 103(a) numbers correlate with your 103(b) ones. Do you know if your 3 recently-aligned acquaintances with numbers less than your 103(b)'s also have AT9's?


Yes...and they also each have 2 HR20-700's (3 in one case).


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yes...and they also each have 2 HR20-700's (3 in one case).


Well I wouldn't be drawing any conclusions from four nearly identical AT9 103(a) and (b) reports from the same area, but I _am_ paying attention to that...


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## tgewin (Jul 22, 2007)

Adding some more data on my situation...

Last night I tried to do a little tweaking on the dish alignment to get the even/odd disparity down a little. It was a bit cloudy, so the numbers were moving up and down a couple points, so really nailing the alignment wasn't going to happen. I did, however, seem to make some improvements to 103b. I'll try again when the sky is clear.

Anyway, to get to the new data: I was able to get some of the odd TPs on 103b up to 97 even with the relatively thin clouds coming and going. That's up about 2 pts from before. The even numbers came all the way up to the low 80s for TPs 2 and 4 on one of the tuners and about 10 pts lower on the other tuner. That's up a good bit from before. If you remember, the higher numbered TPs were always getting increasingly good signals than 2 and 4. 

However, I am still convinced that there's an equipment issue somewhere in the chain, and I disagree with the theory that the discrepency from odd to even is based on dish alignment. I think that exact dish alignment can quite likely eliminate measurable differences in whatever it is that is skewing the polarization, but I don't think bad dish alignment is the culprit. When I was doing my dithering for azimuth and then elevation, I never noticed the odd transponders showing lower signal strengths than evens. I wasn't focused on it, so I might do some specific experimentation when I try to tweak the dish a little more this weekend, but I'm pretty convinced that the direction of mis-alignment is not causing the problem. 

If it really is an alignment issue that affects polarity, wouldn't the difference between odd and even signal strengths be reversed after you sweep the dish through the peak?


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

tgewin said:


> Adding some more data on my situation...
> 
> Last night I tried to do a little tweaking on the dish alignment to get the even/odd disparity down a little. It was a bit cloudy, so the numbers were moving up and down a couple points, so really nailing the alignment wasn't going to happen. I did, however, seem to make some improvements to 103b. I'll try again when the sky is clear.
> 
> ...


Don't really know the answers to this. First, at one point during alignment odds WERE lower than evens, and a couple of people have reported the same thing. I had not done specific experimentation either - with a complex dish shape like the AT-9/slimline it may not be as simple as which side of "perfect" your alignment is. Also you maybe correct - possibly there is always a discrepancy one way or another between the odd and even transponders but without a meter it's too small to measure accurately when your signals are high.
You say you are getting 97 on some 103(b) transponders and only 80s on others - thats a big spread. What are your signals like on 101/110/119? And if you have HD locals, what signals do you have on your "home" satellite/transponder (highest transponder on either 99 or 103, whichever one delivers your HD locals)?


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## tgewin (Jul 22, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> Don't really know the answers to this. First, at one point during alignment odds WERE lower than evens, and a couple of people have reported the same thing. I had not done specific experimentation either - with a complex dish shape like the AT-9/slimline it may not be as simple as which side of "perfect" your alignment is. Also you maybe correct - possibly there is always a discrepancy one way or another between the odd and even transponders but without a meter it's too small to measure accurately when your signals are high.
> You say you are getting 97 on some 103(b) transponders and only 80s on others - thats a big spread. What are your signals like on 101/110/119? And if you have HD locals, what signals do you have on your "home" satellite/transponder (highest transponder on either 99 or 103, whichever one delivers your HD locals)?


I'm at work now, but will post the full readings later. HD locals are on 103a and were in the 90 range (+/- 1 or 2) both before and after my tweaking for 103b. But like I said, it was a bit cloudy, so the numbers were moving back and forth a little. I think I saw as high as 93-94 on the 103a transponders that my locals should be on.

Signals on 101/110/119 were very good. High 90s and 100 on a few both before and after my tweaks.

I'm also still showing a spread of 10 pts on tuner 1 vs. tuner 2. Switching cables switches which one is higher, so I can't imagine it being the tuners in the HR20that are the problem.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

tgewin said:


> .....Anyway, to get to the new data: I was able to get some of the odd TPs on 103b up to 97 even with the relatively thin clouds coming and going. That's up about 2 pts from before. The even numbers came all the way up to the low 80s for TPs 2 and 4 on one of the tuners and about 10 pts lower on the other tuner. That's up a good bit from before. If you remember, the higher numbered TPs were always getting increasingly good signals than 2 and 4.
> 
> However, I am still convinced that there's an equipment issue somewhere in the chain, and I disagree with the theory that the discrepency from odd to even is based on dish alignment......


It would be of interest to know your brand of dish and LNB. It is becoming apparent that not all of these discussions apply to every dish. In your case, you are reporting a different result from re-alignment than texasbrit, but it doesn't mean his report and the conclusion drawn from it are in conflict with your report. It's very odd, but not unlike some other reports, that _your_ particular dish/LNB _still_ has the odd/even disparity after re-alignment, and it may indicate that there's an LNB problem with your installation. I think we have two _separate_ issues going on here: alignment and LNB problems.

The tuner discrepancy is a separate issue altogether.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Several posts today on tweaking the dish for proper alignement. Instuctions for maximizing signal strength can be found in the installation manual. Here is a link to the pages for the slimline dish:

http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/Slimline_Dish_Installation_Manual.pdf


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

Skins Fan said:


> Well, I just took the AT9 apart (lnb connect block). like Tom said, 2 cables come out of the 101/110/119 LNB (stacked) and into the side of the 99/103 LNB. No big surprise there, check and tightend all connections. No help.
> 
> The one thing I have not mentioned yet is that the strongest signals I have are on the 119 at 98's & 100's. The 101 & 110 are 95's with a few 100's. The 99 shows odd tps in the mid 80's, even tps in the mid 70's
> 
> ...


Ok, 2 techs just left. changed the BBC, re-aligned the dish, checked cabling and changed ports on the dish -----STILL no ODD tps on 103a or b. Did get the signal into the 70's on the b and into the 90's on the a. They want to try another H20 out of the box and last resort, replace the AT9 with a Slim Line. Stay tuned, they had to leave, may be back tomorrow.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

I've taken several steps and still have even transponders ranging from 0 to the mid 20's on 103b. I have an AT-9 with no additional switches. I do get HD locals at my location in South Carolina. My LNB says "Andrew DirecTV A3 LNBF". I do have a little tree blockage, but nothing major. Signals on others: 101 - mid to upper 90's on nearly all; 110 same; 119 same except 0 on TP's 25 & 29, 99b - upper 80's to low 90's on odds, 0 on evens; 103a - mid 80's to mid 90's on odds, 0 on evens. I get the Congratulations message on test channel 498 on both tuners on my HR20.

- Self realignment, tweaking every axis - gained a couple of points on the odd transponders (i.e. from 89 to 91) when changing the elevation
- Replaced Port 1 and Port 2 cables with new ones - no change
- Swapped BBC's - no change
- Connected an H20 directly to LNB with new, short cable - no change

Does it sound like I have a bad LNB? Is there a warranty on that kind of thing? Do I even need to worry about it since I get channel 498?

Thanks


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## tgewin (Jul 22, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> It would be of interest to know your brand of dish and LNB. It is becoming apparent that not all of these discussions apply to every dish. In your case, you are reporting a different result from re-alignment than texasbrit, but it doesn't mean his report and the conclusion drawn from it are in conflict with your report. It's very odd, but not unlike some other reports, that _your_ particular dish/LNB _still_ has the odd/even disparity after re-alignment, and it may indicate that there's an LNB problem with your installation. I think we have two _separate_ issues going on here: alignment and LNB problems.
> 
> The tuner discrepancy is a separate issue altogether.


My dish is a slimline. LNB assembly is a WNC (Wistron).

I've got a couple more data points I want to get on my specific situation, and I wish there were an easy way to start tracking other issues people are having with the even/odd discrepencies. It'd be helpful to start trying to isolate things a bit more and determine if there are different problems causing the discrepency that have different solutions. In the end, I may just have a uniquely flawed LNB assembly.

While I did connect the HR20 inputs directly to the LNB's outputs, I think I still had the other two outputs connected to the multiswitch. If the weather's clear tonight--doubtful, unfortunately--I'm going to isolate everything that's possible. What I'm planning: Clean, new cables running straight from LNB assembly to BBC. Nothing else connected to the LNB outputs. I'll try to tweak from there using the dithering method to get a good number and then checking minor changes both ways just to be certain. Also switching which cable goes to which tuner and switching BBCs to see if any of that makes a difference. I'm also gonna make sure to try all four of the LNB outputs.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Skins Fan said:


> Ok, 2 techs just left. changed the BBC, re-aligned the dish, checked cabling and changed ports on the dish -----STILL no ODD tps on 103a or b. Did get the signal into the 70's on the b and into the 90's on the a. They want to try another H20 out of the box and last resort, replace the AT9 with a Slim Line. Stay tuned, they had to leave, may be back tomorrow.


I'd take that Slimline in a heartbeat. Plus, you get another alignment, hopefully by different "techs" than _those_ guys. Hope that Slimline comes with a Wistron (WNC) LNB.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

mdavej said:


> I've taken several steps and still have even transponders ranging from 0 to the mid 20's on 103b. I have an AT-9 with no additional switches. I do get HD locals at my location in South Carolina. My LNB says "Andrew DirecTV A3 LNBF". *I do have a little tree blockage, but nothing major.* Signals on others: 101 - mid to upper 90's on nearly all; 110 same; 119 same except 0 on TP's 25 & 29, 99b - upper 80's to low 90's on odds, 0 on evens; 103a - mid 80's to mid 90's on odds, 0 on evens. I get the Congratulations message on test channel 498 on both tuners on my HR20.
> 
> - Self realignment, tweaking every axis - gained a couple of points on the odd transponders (i.e. from 89 to 91) when changing the elevation
> - Replaced Port 1 and Port 2 cables with new ones - no change
> ...


_Any_ actual blockage is a major issue which must be corrected with either a chainsaw or a dish move. But first you have to determine if you have actual blockage. The signal actually comes from about 20 degrees higher than it would appear from looking along the axis of the dish face. Your other numbers aren't that great, and, as we have seen, the Ka satellites are extremely sensitive to so-so alignment. I'd work on that before cranking up the chainsaw. It's safer, too!


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> _Any_ actual blockage is a major issue which must be corrected with either a chainsaw or a dish move. But first you have to determine if you have actual blockage. The signal actually comes from about 20 degrees higher than it would appear from looking along the axis of the dish face. Your other numbers aren't that great, and, as we have seen, the Ka satellites are extremely sensitive to so-so alignment. I'd work on that before cranking up the chainsaw. It's safer, too!


Thanks for the advice. Eyeballing it, I've confirmed some blockage, but there's nothing I can do about the trees or dish location for that matter. And the alignment is as good as it's going to get. Seems logical to me that mis-alignment or blockage could cause small differences in TP numbers, but not the all or nothing I'm getting now. When I move the dish, the zeros I'm getting never budge at all.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Thanks for the advice. Eyeballing it, I've confirmed some blockage, but there's nothing I can do about the trees or dish location for that matter. And the alignment is as good as it's going to get. Seems logical to me that mis-alignment or blockage could cause small differences in TP numbers, but not the all or nothing I'm getting now. When I move the dish, the zeros I'm getting never budge at all.


Looking back at your original post, #27, referencing SkinsFan's #26, you have:

0's on the odds, 80-90's on the evens on 103(a)

0's on the odds, _very_ low on the evens on 103(b)

You have an H20-xxx and an AT-9/Andrews. You get the 498 "Congratulations!"

Something is wrong with this picture, and it's not trees. You have acceptable signals across the whole 5 satellite arc, and especially on the 103(a) evens. There are obviously no trees blocking anything at 103 in the arc.

First, the fact that you are getting 0's on your 103(a)'s is not _necessarily_ abnormal, depending on what your local spot beams are using. There may be no odd 103(a)'s pointed your way. On the other hand, there may be 103(a) odds that should be showing up, but aren't for some reason.

I don't see how you could be even receiving the Ch. 498 "Congratulations!" message with those low 103(b) even numbers (nothing over the 20's), although it _is_ a simple, non-moving page. I would do a MENU > HELP & SETTINGS > SETUP > RESET > Restart Receiver and re-check those numbers on the 103(b) for starters.

If you still see those same numbers, I would be highly suspicious of that dish, and I'd try to get the deal SkinsFans got on a new Slimline. Or you could wait until they actually start broadcasting something besides Ch. 498 before you do anything. It still works on everything else. Possibly you could in the meantime borrow another H20 from a friend, just to make sure that for some reason there's not a glitch in the signal strength meter in yours on 103(b). Which model is it, a -100 or a -600?


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

Wanted to post the results of my service appt today:

Before today's appt I had a AT9 connected to a WB68. With this setup, I had the 103b odd tps at zero and the evens in the mid 80s. As a result, I would get a searching for satellite on 480 and 498, but the confirmation message on 481 (even tp).

With a little trouble-shooting of my own, I suspected one of the ports from the AT9 dish was bad. I was able to send the zeros to the 101 and 99 sats and back to the 103 at will by switching ports.

Today's service tech confirmed my suspicion after checking all the lines and connections. Based on this, he changed to a slimline AU9 (guess they don't have replacement LNBs for the AT9 anymore).

Anyway, bottomline is that now everything is working. 480, 481, 498 all pass and I have all readings on all satellites and transponders.

I realize this might not be the situation for everyone with 0s on the 103 & test channels not working as it could be bad connections or faulty lines, but if all else is ruled out it seems the LNB could be the issue.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

kmkraft_1974 said:


> Wanted to post the results of my service appt today:
> 
> Before today's appt I had a AT9 connected to a WB68. With this setup, I had the 103b odd tps at zero and the evens in the mid 80s. As a result, I would get a searching for satellite on 480 and 498, but the confirmation message on 481 (even tp).
> 
> ...


This is good to hear. I have to wait until Oct. 8th for my slim line but I will survive. Let's see, the new date for launch is Oct. 9th right?:lol:


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## djb61230 (Oct 26, 2006)

Just wanted to mention my situation here since I was getting zeros on odd transponders and 40s on the evens.

I received my shiny new Acutrac 22 Pro signal meter today so I was able to re-align the AT9 myself. Now I'm good to go on all sats, mostly in the 90s.

So my problem was just a simple mis-alignment. Not a bad switch, cable or LNB. The hint I guess was the low numbers on the evens which pointed to an alignment issue anyway. Being so mis-aligned made the odd transponders zero showing similar symptoms to a bad cable or LNB.


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

djb61230 said:


> Just wanted to mention my situation here since I was getting zeros on odd transponders and 40s on the evens.
> 
> I received my shiny new Acutrac 22 Pro signal meter today so I was able to re-align the AT9 myself. Now I'm good to go on all sats, mostly in the 90s.
> 
> So my problem was just a simple mis-alignment. Not a bad switch, cable or LNB. The hint I guess was the low numbers on the evens which pointed to an alignment issue anyway. Being so mis-aligned made the odd transponders zero showing similar symptoms to a bad cable or LNB.


good point....didn't think about that scenario. glad to hear you're up on the sats.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> Looking back at your original post, #27, referencing SkinsFan's #26, you have:
> 
> 0's on the odds, 80-90's on the evens on 103(a)
> 
> ...


My H20-100 is actually a spare which normally sits in my closet until I get a second HDTV. I used it with a short cable right next to the dish for the alignment. It downloaded the latest software when I hooked it up. I get the same results with my HR20-700 (software rev. 019D) on both tuners. So that's 3 different BBC's and cables giving the same results. I've done several restarts on both receivers. I also just tested 480 and 481. 480 passes, 481 fails. As long as 498 is looking at an odd transponder, I can see how it would pass, which it still does.

So all the evidence seems to point to a bad LNB. Looks like I'll be trying to get a Slimline. I'd rather just try to get a new LNB, but I don't know how to go about it, since the AT9 is obsolete.

Thanks for all the advice.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Skins Fan said:


> This is good to hear. I have to wait until Oct. 8th for my slim line but I will survive. Let's see, the new date for launch is Oct. 9th right?:lol:


Since your AT9 is apparently defective (as is mine), is the slimline going to cost you anything?


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

mdavej said:


> ... As long as 498 is looking at an odd transponder, I can see how it would pass, which it still does.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice.


it does look at an odd tp. in my non-working setup, I had 0s on the odds (and signals on the evens) and my 498 showed searching for satellite.

skinsfan & mdavej: in my case, there was no charge for the slimline they installed today.


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## tgewin (Jul 22, 2007)

An update on my situation...

With reasonably clear skies this afternoon, I tried to tweak the dish's aim with all the components in line (multiswitch, RG6 to flat cable, RG6 from flat cable to BBC, BBC into HR20). I used the dithering method based on the tuner and TP with the lowest signal on 103b (TP4) and then checked 2/10s of a turn each way to see if any improvement could be made--none could, so I put it back to the aim from the dithers. Right now, I'm showing the following signal strengths:

103b
tuner1:
97 86 95 82 95 88 95 85
96 88 94 89 96 90 NA NA
97 NA NA NA NA 98 NA NA
...

tuner2:
97 91 95 85 95 89 95 87
95 89 94 89 96 91 NA NA
97 NA NA NA NA 98 NA NA
...

So I'm getting perfectly usable signal levels, but aiming the dish precisely is not eliminating the issue.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

kmkraft_1974 said:


> it does look at an odd tp. in my non-working setup, I had 0s on the odds (and signals on the evens) and my 498 showed searching for satellite.
> 
> skinsfan & mdavej: in my case, there was no charge for the slimline they installed today.


Thanks. I tried to schedule a service call, but gave up trying to explain the problem. The CSR's don't know what I'm talking about. I think I'll have to wait until they light up the new channels.


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## aaronb (Sep 22, 2007)

I’m having a problem with the even tp’s reading lower than the odd tp’s. I have a HR20-100 connected directly to a WNC slimline dish. I would almost swear that a week ago when I first checked the 103(b) signals I was getting significantly higher numbers than I have been this weekend even though we have had mostly clear skies. To rule out any bad connections I replaced all of the cable fittings this afternoon and swaped out both BBC’s, which had no effect on my signal strengths. 

My signals on 103(b) are:
Tuner 1:
95 82 92 77 91 73 87 74
88 73 89 72 88 61 NA NA
93 NA NA NA NA 88 NA

Tuner 2: 
95 81 92 79 89 76 88 74
89 72 88 72 87 64 NA NA
94 NA NA NA NA 85 NA 

There are no HD locals here as I only get the Ricmond, VA SD locals on D*. But I do get some tp’s on 103(a):
Both tuners are within 1 of each other:
79 7 0 86 82 6 NA NA

On the 99 sat I get:
0 89 0 93 0 0 NA NA

On the 101 sat I get several tp’s reading 100 and most in the 90’s. On the 110 sat all are mid 90’s. On the 119 sat most are 100. 

I dread dealing with the CSR’s to get someone to come out and realign the dish, though I do have the “protection plan” if that makes any difference.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

aaronb said:


> I'm having a problem with the even tp's reading lower than the odd tp's. I have a HR20-100 connected directly to a WNC slimline dish. I would almost swear that a week ago when I first checked the 103(b) signals I was getting significantly higher numbers than I have been this weekend even though we have had mostly clear skies. To rule out any bad connections I replaced all of the cable fittings this afternoon and swaped out both BBC's, which had no effect on my signal strengths.
> 
> My signals on 103(b) are:
> Tuner 1:
> ...


Yes, they appear to have turned down the output power on all the 103(b) tp's from that period of a couple of days or less when they were all really pushing the high 90's here,

Your 103(b) odds are maybe not "perfect," but they're darn close. You're right. It's the 103(b) _evens_ that are the problem. All your other sat numbers are great.

The odd/even problem with a AU9-S/Wistron(WNC) has not been widely reported compared to the AT9/Calamp's, yet obviously something's not quite right with your dish. As you probably know, some were able to eliminate the differences through dish re-alignment and some were not, including one with pretty high 103(b) odds to begin with, like you, who got all his readings higher and evenly matched.

I doubt if D*, after D10 finally goes "live," is gonna think you have a problem with those 103(b) numbers, even though you disagree. Assuming it's accessible, you can try very slightly re-aligning your dish yourself, after making sure you know how to do that, or get someone locally to do it. If some of those 103(b) evens won't come up out of the low 70's, you're probably gonna need a new LNB. It would sure be nice if you could first find a friend with an accessible Slimline to swap temporarily those LNB's. That would tell you a lot, it only takes a few minutes, and it won't effect either of your alignments. You could take yours over to _his_ house.


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## timb2112 (Jul 19, 2007)

Just went up on the roof and pulled off the LNB/ multiswitch. It is Andrew on a slimline dish. Is this the correct multiswitch to be using for 103b? I have readings in the 30's on even tp's, with NO signal on the odds. Please help. I am going to do a realignment to in crease signal strength. I am thinking this will have no effect on the odds as the LNB or multiswitch may be defective.


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## kmkraft_1974 (Feb 13, 2006)

timb2112 said:


> Just went up on the roof and pulled off the LNB/ multiswitch. It is Andrew on a slimline dish. Is this the correct multiswitch to be using for 103b? I have readings in the 30's on even tp's, with NO signal on the odds. Please help. I am going to do a realignment to in crease signal strength. I am thinking this will have no effect on the odds as the LNB or multiswitch may be defective.


check out post #75 in this thread. seems like he had a similar situation with low evens and 0 odds. alignment worked.


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## Skins Fan (Sep 18, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Since your AT9 is apparently defective (as is mine), is the slimline going to cost you anything?


I actually had a good experience this time with a *D tech. I called very early in the morning and he had just come in at 4am. After deternining I probably had a bad LNB, I could hear him on the keyboard in the background. He apologized for taking so long, he said he was trying to get me a new dish and installation "free of charge". It took awhile but he came back and said the system just wouldn't let him get me a free one. The best he could do was $42 + shipping for the dish and free installation. I took it, I have never been one for protection plans but if this keeps up I might consider.


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## aaronb (Sep 22, 2007)

D* must still be making adjustments as early this morning all my tp's read several points higher, though they are now slightly lower this afternoon. When they first turned on the tp's on D10 I'd swear I did not have the variation between the even tp's and odd tp's that I have now and most tp's were in the mid 90s. 

I had no problems viewing the test channels 9300 and 9301 this morning with a signal strength of 78 on 9300 and 74 on 9301. I guess I'll hold off a while before I try to get the dish realigned to see what happens as they light up the channels. 

I wonder if after we go through tweaking our dishes for D10 we will end up having to do the same thing again in a few months for D11?


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## NPShehab (Jun 25, 2007)

djb61230 said:


> Just wanted to mention my situation here since I was getting zeros on odd transponders and 40s on the evens.
> 
> I received my shiny new Acutrac 22 Pro signal meter today so I was able to re-align the AT9 myself. Now I'm good to go on all sats, mostly in the 90s.
> 
> So my problem was just a simple mis-alignment. Not a bad switch, cable or LNB. The hint I guess was the low numbers on the evens which pointed to an alignment issue anyway. Being so mis-aligned made the odd transponders zero showing similar symptoms to a bad cable or LNB.


I had the same initial readings. I tried to adjust my dish on my own, since as so many CSRs politely told me, "there's no way to troubleshoot since the satellite hasn't gone live." As I unscrewed the locking bolts too much and watched my dish swing down, I realized the adjustment wasn't the best idea. Well actually, it was since the now nonexistent signal was enough to get a service call.

Anyway... The service man said it was probably a faulty LNB causing the even odd problem, but after realignment, everything was fixed (80s and 90s on 103b). I now pass the 498, 480, and 481 tests. Good luck to everyone else with the issue.


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## vangiesk (Jul 2, 2007)

My problem is weird? I will get a signal usually 90+ for awhile on the Odd TP's for 103b on my HR20-100. Then they will go away, However on my H20 receiver connected to the same WB68 switch I get no interuptions at all on the TP's odd and even are both above 90. 

I'm lost?


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

vangiesk said:


> My problem is weird? I will get a signal usually 90+ for awhile on the Odd TP's for 103b on my HR20-100. Then they will go away, However on my H20 receiver connected to the same WB68 switch I get no interuptions at all on the TP's odd and even are both above 90.
> 
> I'm lost?


When in doubt, go with the H20 on the signal levels/dish alignment. Check out Ch. 480, 481, and 498 on _both_ tuners on the HR20-100 _and_ the H20 for further testing to see if you're 100% ready.


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## timb2112 (Jul 19, 2007)

kmkraft_1974 said:


> check out post #75 in this thread. seems like he had a similar situation with low evens and 0 odds. alignment worked.


Many thanks for the info. Realignment DID work. D* installers are incompetent at best. I had them out when my local HD's were cutting out after the intial install. I was told all was fine.

I realigned the dish and now have a high of 80 on one transponder on 103b. My previous readings were in the 30's on even transponders only. I now get the congrats on 498. With a little further tweaking I will be in the 90's. 101 is also 95 or higher now on all transponders.

I think in most situations realignment is the answer.

Any ideas on the best dish adjustment at this point? Azimuth, tilt, elevation or a combination of the three?

Many thanks to kmkraft_1974 for the heads up.

:grin:


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> I would be highly suspicious of that dish, and I'd try to get the deal SkinsFans got on a new Slimline.


Just posting a happy ending.

Got a new slimline, and problem solved. It really was a bad LNB on my AT9 sidecar causing zero's on my even transponders. With the new dish, I've got mid 90's across the board.

I kind of expected a free replacement, since I had defective equipment (the LNB, I mean). But I got nowhere trying to convince D* of that. So I got a deal on a slimline from ebay and installed it myself. I did call D* back and managed to get some credit back. So my net cost was less than $30. I'm satisfied with that and thrilled to get all the new channels.

Thanks to all for the advice. You guys rock.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Just posting a happy ending.
> 
> Got a new slimline, and problem solved. It really was a bad LNB on my AT9 sidecar causing zero's on my even transponders. With the new dish, I've got mid 90's across the board.
> 
> ...


Good goin'! Hope you were able to get good #'s What kind of LNB was on the old AT9? And what kind is on the eBay Slimline?


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> Good goin'! Hope you were able to get good #'s What kind of LNB was on the old AT9? And what kind is on the eBay Slimline?


Old defunct AT9 LNB says "Andrew DirecTV A3 LNBF".
New working AU9 says "Eagle Aspen DTVSDLNB Rev. 1". Getting mostly mid-90's on 103b, in spite of a few tree tops.

Less than $60 shipped from alorio1 on ebay. Was on my front porch within 3 days. No missing parts, aside from the instructions, which I easily found online. Assembled and tuned in under 2 hrs by a complete idiot (me). To be fair, I had a little help from my 8-year-old. We're thinking the AT9 would make a good sled this winter.


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

turbrodude said:


> I think I have a bad LNB. On 103(b) I get all zeros on the even transponders. My odd transponders aren't so good but at least there is a reading. Nothing higher than 30% though. My friend nearby has even's and odd's lit up, not to mention much higher signal strength.
> 
> But 110 and 119 all have even and odd tranponders with good signal strength and I think they use the same 18v and 13v with the 22 khz tone. Right? So I think the LNB is bad and the dish probably needs a better alignment. Do you guys agree?


I had this with my original new dish in that it had a bad wire from the LNB, called DTV and they installed the better slimlines that dont look like an engineering barnacle


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Old defunct AT9 LNB says "Andrew DirecTV A3 LNBF".
> New working AU9 says "Eagle Aspen DTVSDLNB Rev. 1". Getting mostly mid-90's on 103b, in spite of a few tree tops.
> 
> Less than $60 shipped from alorio1 on ebay. Was on my front porch within 3 days. No missing parts, aside from the instructions, which I easily found online. Assembled and tuned in under 2 hrs by a complete idiot (me). To be fair, I had a little help from my 8-year-old. We're thinking the AT9 would make a good sled this winter.


Got it, thanks for the info!


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## johnnymac96 (Oct 25, 2006)

tkrandall said:


> Several posts today on tweaking the dish for proper alignement. Instuctions for maximizing signal strength can be found in the installation manual. Here is a link to the pages for the slimline dish:
> 
> http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/Slimline_Dish_Installation_Manual.pdf


Thank you for this document, it was much more understandable than the video.

That said, I didn't need it. I can now vouch that we are calling for MINISCULE adjustments in alignment. All I literally had to do to get from 0 to 20 on the odd transponders was to loosen the lockdown bolts. That's it. Then when I realized what happened, I just tapped the dish a little bit here and there on the side and got all the way to 94 and 95. Then I relocked the bolts and everything is working perfectly now.

Thanks to everyone on this forum. By switching cables and BBC's I could tell that it wasn't a problem with the MS or anything inside the house, so I knew it was alignment. Saved me a long wait on a service call and $$$ to boot. THANK YOU.


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## slimline (Oct 30, 2007)

you guys have got to be the biggest sat geeks i have ever seen .............
which from a d tech stand point thank you the information is great.

bunch of geeks any way:lol:


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

slimline said:


> you guys have got to be the biggest sat geeks i have ever seen .............
> which from a d tech stand point thank you the information is great.
> 
> bunch of geeks any way:lol:


Welcome aboard! Have you had any problems with WB68 installations working properly, besides the mis-use of the flexports? I'm referring to standard installations with no polarity locker installed.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> Welcome aboard! Have you had any problems with WB68 installations working properly, besides the mis-use of the flexports? I'm referring to standard installations with no polarity locker installed.


I've found that the WB68 to be very reliable. Replaced very, very few. Those are usually from one of two causes. 1) No weather seals and moisture gets in and shorts out the connector or 2) Whoever installed it, left the 75 ohm resister in the caps we used and it then shorted out the port.

Side note on the caps. Those plastic caps that come with the switch are absolutely worthless for any type of weather proofing. A total waste of time to leave them on. So what we are supposed to do, is pull out the resister from the 75 ohm terminator, put on the weather seal, then put on the cap. Keeps all the water and stuff out of the port.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Thanks, Robert. Perhaps this is the reason some others seem to be having trouble with these. I didn't think they were supposed to be weatherproof in any case...


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