# 721 wierdness



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

As you know I have a 721, over the past few weeks a wierd problem has started happening.

Sometimes when I am watching TV the picture freezes up for a few seconds and sometimes aquiring signal displays on the screen only for a few seconds.

A couple of days ago when it was doing this (it was breaking up every 25 - 30 seconds) I got smart and went to my PIP and switched to the other tuner. The picture was fine and no problem.

However something recorded on the other tuner and it had the same problems skipping, picture breaking up and aquiring signal message popping up on the screen.

I thought for sure I had a bad cable, so to be on the safe side the other day I put in two new RG6 cables to my 721. I turned on my 721 and everything seemed ok, but the last 2 nights it has started doing it again, so now I am sure its not the cable.

I was reading over at DBSforums that Claude Grainer (Metro25) was having the same problem in this thread http://www.dbsforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002866 so now the question is, has anyone else had this problem with one tuner flaking out from time to time?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

YEP ME TOO! D tivos are looking more atrtractive daily.

For a product delayed a YEAR, it shouldnt be this way....


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I thought it was my SW64 acting up.


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## SteveinDanville (Jun 26, 2002)

Scott, about 2 weeks ago my 721 started breaking up, and then doing the "Aquiring Signal" black screen. It was happening on BOTH tuners, so I thought I had a fried 721. Service guys came out and found out (rightly or wrongly) that their was something out of adjustment with the LNBF, they fixed it, and it cleared up. All the time, my 4900 in another room was working just fine. Now, last night, it started again, so bad that on it's own, the receiver did a reboot. Because it lost it's signal, I lost 1/3 of my Will & Grace recording last night, where it only made it 28 minutes into a 40 minute episode. Frankly, I think this is a lot more worrisome than a dump-to-live issue. I'm scared........


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

You guys are doing a great job debugging the beta units. Keep it up ! 

Someday I may even buy one if/when they ever gets to full production before E* releases the next generation.


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## Ron Castro (Jul 12, 2002)

Just hooked up my third 721 because of severe break up and loss of signal problems. I was told it was a grounding problem so I had the installer re-check. No problem there. While I was on the phone with the 721 Tech, he had me check all the transponders and some of them were switching from red to green. He said that after the software download I would probably have the same problem and there is nothing else he could suggest!
As a side note, when I went to the Info screen before the download, the sw version was L105 after we fiddled with the transponders and the download started, it went back to L104. The download is now complete, but the program guide is 5 hours off. Called back and was told that it takes up to 24 hours to receive the correct time...
Isn't it great to be on the cutting edge of technology?

Ron


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## TerryC (Jul 18, 2002)

Scott, I had this same problem on two 721's, my original and the RMA'd replacement (See SteveinDanville's thread entitled "First Problem w/my 721"). Advanced Tech had no solutions. I'm on my third 721 now, which is working perfectly. Seems that these problems have started to pop up in the past few weeks with many 721 owners.


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## sjhill01 (Oct 13, 2002)

This is getting stranger by the second - last night, about 1 minute into Friends, my 721 got a black screen and spontaneously rebooted, too! This is the first time that's happened.. 

Is it possible that there is something in the signal that the tuners/software is poor enough to freak out over? And maybe it's something that was introduced in the signal recently, such as power changes after E*8, which would explain why it seems to have happened all of a sudden and recently?


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## Specks and Reds (Nov 9, 2002)

First off I have to say Great Job to all who make this forum possible, especially Scott. I have learned alot from all the threads. I usually just read all posts to learn when the next upgrade was or the latest "bug" and just do whatever was suggested. I really have been lucky in that I haven't had many problems at all. I am not lucky to have locals in Baton Rouge, LA, so the back to back problems with recording hasn't been an issue. The reason for my decision to reply is the "weirdness" that Scott has come across. I also have this problem, more noticable on one tuner than the other. I was thinking it was a weather related problem with all the bad weather we've been having. Upon further digging I realize it wasn't. I get the acquiring signal usually accompanied with pixellation and freeze frame for a few seconds. I also receive during this the Skyangel satellite reception signal. Can anyone explain this one? 

Waiting on the fix,
Specks and Reds

Again, Great Job!


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## thomasmaly (Jul 7, 2002)

Ok I think I just discovered the "weirdest" of all 721 weirdness quirks. I have been recording "Without a Trace" and "ER" at 9M CST since the fall season premieres on a weekly timer. Never had a problem. Last night I ended up with 2 30 minute recordings of each program. Both had complete recordings from beginning to end on the 2 30 min recordings.....I dare anyone to top that for 721 weirdness...I was PO'd at first till I realized I had 2 complete programs.


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## Jason (Aug 8, 2002)

I started my own thread regarding this issue a few days ago. I didn't have a single problem with the picture or sound up until about 2 weeks or so ago. Just about every show I taped had picture blocking and freezing and the sound skipped too! I think things went back to normal a couple days ago (keeping fingers crossed). I also was getting the black screen from time to time where it said Acquiring Signal even though the signal strength was in the 90's.

SCOTT, CAN YOU E-MAIL YOUR CONTACTS IN THE TECH DEPARTMENT AND BRING THIS PROBLEM TO THEIR ATTENTION? THEY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THESE RECENT MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH THE PICTURE AND SOUND GLITCHES!

Thanks


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

I have been monitoring this thread and who's online and Echostar is actively reading this thread. 

BTW welcome Specks and Reds :hi:


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Are we being haunted by the ghosts of the DPs?


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## EvanS (Mar 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bob Haller _
> *Are we being haunted by the ghosts of the DPs? *


BOB!!
PLEASE!!!

I just bought mine....


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## motjes2 (May 9, 2002)

Hi, everyone. my 721 has been performing very well. I do not even re-boot it anymore. It just works fine. I did experienced a similar but not equal problem. My 721 just re-booted about three times by itself last week. I was not even watching live tv but a recording. since then no problems. One thing I have noticed since yesterday, is that the PQ has been better in the local channels (maybe it just me or I am blind). Well, this is all. By the way, I have 4 301s and none experienced problem yesterday. May be they did but I did not notice it. 

On another topic, I wonder why everytime there are failures or mishaps with the dish pvr, some of us have to bring how good other pvrs (such as tivo) are. PVR technology is a great experience in itself. I work with a 30 million dollars project that uses the latest technology in diabetes management. We are in year 4 of the 5 year pilot project and don't you think that there has been problems along the way with the programing, servers not responding or data getting lost all over the place. In spite of all of this, we have found ways to solve problems and issues and even improve the technology. The moral here is that mistakes are a great opportunity for learning. I am sure Engineers at Echostar will improve the technology. So, give everybody a break and be patient. This is a great product...


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by motjes2 _
> *PVR technology is a great experience in itself.*


It is NOT a great experience when you have to constantly reboot, kick, bang, RA, baby a PVR to get it to work. (unless you're some geek that gets off on doing this sort of thing) And lets NOT forget the famous "I just lost 30 hours of prog after a reboot" cry - yea, what a fun experience.    
No, a GREAT PVR experience is to have it do what it's SUPPOSED to do, without intervention by ME - THAT'S why I got one in the first place. I just want to come home & watch what I asked it to record for me WITHOUT loosing it!

*



I work with a 30 million dollars project that uses the latest technology in diabetes management. We are in year 4 of the 5 year pilot project and don't you think that there has been problems along the way with the programing, servers not responding or data getting lost all over the place. In spite of all of this, we have found ways to solve problems and issues and even improve the technology.

Click to expand...

*Is this something that involves LIVE patients life or death? I assume that this project is NOT. And that would be because you would NOT roll this out on live patients UNTIL it has been THOUGHLY tested BEFORE it is! (duh) And the fact of the matter is that most E* equipment (PVR's especially, but all receivers they make) is NOT throughly tested, or even Beta tested before being released to the general public. Now, while beta testing a PVR does NOT compare to a medical project, the point is still the same & that this is NOT right for E* to keep doing!

*



The moral here is that mistakes are a great opportunity for learning. I am sure Engineers at Echostar will improve the technology. So, give everybody a break and be patient. This is a great product...

Click to expand...

*Yea right, I'm sure others have said the same thing with the DP's, the 501/508, etc - how much patience ARE we supposed to have. :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: (the fact that you DON'T see but a fraction of these kind of trouble posts w/Tivo's should tell you something right off the bat    ) Maybe what you SHOULD be asking is why Tivo (& Replay) got it right the very first try, & E* is STILL trying to get it right on their THIRD try. (Even UTV had a couple minor problems, mostly after the spot beam sats were launched, but NOTHING like these problems w/E*)


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## motjes2 (May 9, 2002)

dishrich,

Does your experience reflects the entire population of 721 owners? If it does, then I see your point. However, I suggest to scott and everybody else to post a poll to find how many 721 owners are experiencing the sort of problems that you are mentioning. Statistically speaking how can you make a general statement based on your machine alone? When in fact, I have not experienced the same problems that you are mentioning. 

(the Diabetes Management project is a federal grant pilot project that involves a sample of the population of the US. Why would the federal government spent major tax $$$ on a project that has no real data? Get my point. Yes, it is a matter of live and death but nobody has died, thank God, and none will be expected to die because it is complex project with back up systems all over the place. This is why it is a pilot project now. However, most of the mistakes and changes that I was refering to do not involve somebody's live. It does involve getting data from point A to point B in a secure manner.)

Is the 721 a matter of live or death for some of us? the 721 is still in the early stages of development, and I hope E* will continue to develop it. Granted that there are problems, but is Tivo or any other pvr out there perfect? then the answer should be to go ahead and get one of those systems and be done with the frustrations. I will stick with E* and wait I am not in a hurry...


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## sjhill01 (Oct 13, 2002)

[RANT ON]

motjes2, your analogy of diabetes research to PVRs is seriously flawed and not worth discussing any more. Try comparing apples to apples; other electronics devices are expected to function properly ALL the time. This is not unfair or unreasonable to expect after spending over $500.



> the 721 is still in the early stages of development, and I hope E* will continue to develop it.


WHAT?!?!?! It is most certainly NOT "in the early stages of development"; it's a RETAIL product. Do you think that Ford sells cars that are "in the early stages of development"? If it's in development, it shouldn't be for sale.



> then the answer should be to go ahead and get one of those systems and be done with the frustrations.


Are you going to pay me back? I'd be willing to bet that (since you seem to have plenty of money floating around) there are many people on this forum who would gladly let you buy them a Tivo or ReplayTV unit after their 721 experience.

The complaint is that people have BOUGHT these RETAIL PRODUCTS and have a reasonable epectation that they function correctly. Spontaneous rebooting, system freeze ups, and lost/failed/missed recordings are serious flaws in a PVR.

[RANT OFF]

That being said, I would have to rate my level of happiness with the PVR at a 7 on a 1-10 scale. I'm frustrated by some of the serious bugs, and annoyed by the simpler, more obvious ones that they should have fixed by now, but I'm not going to run out and switch sat providers so I can get a DTivo.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Well be patient would be fine if all PVR type products were similiar.

But D TIVO appears rock solid. 

If E starts loosing the BEST subs to D because E products have bugs then the $ will be spent to address it.

I am probably the biggest E pom pom person here and dismayed at how things are going.

The only brite note is that if I defect to D I can likely sell my sytem for more than I paid for it. Thanks to some really great buys from a friend.


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## motjes2 (May 9, 2002)

sjhill01,

It is quite annoying that you make such a statement about my analogy. Maybe you and others read too much into it when I was just trying to say that things are not always perfect and that products develop with time. This is only what I was trying to say. It seems like you may not share an idea without offending someone. Maybe you and others who are disastisfied should put your 721 and your whole system for sale at e-bay. This way you will be happier and can go to D* and get a Tivo. Why put up with E* bad technology and complaint at the same time? If you try it and did not like it then do something about it and stop complaining about it. I know that I will do so and will not be unhappy with $500 equipment. It makes no sense to me to only focus on the negatives and don't look at it as a whole. Does it have potential? yes.

I am not trying to defend E* in anyway but my whole point is what can you do about it right now? Do you think complaining on this board or making such remarks will get you any where? It is out of your hand if you stay with E*. You have very little control over it unless you are willing to wait until E* gets the 721 at an acceptable level or surpasses the Tivo which I think you know and I know it will take a long time or may be never. Thus, be realistic, complaining will get you nowhere and of course I will not buy your system. You decided it to buy it the way it was as I did.

Instead of focusing on the frustration and unhappiness of the 721 why not do a scientic study about it? May be E* can get the statistical numbers and try to make changes... 

First I will say do we know how many 721 units are out there? Does anybody on this board knows, except for E*? Do we know how many customer are satisified with the overall performance before we get to details or features?

This is only what I am asking. Do an analysis before you make general statements that do not apply to the whole population of 721 customers?


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Folks enough RANTING 

Let's report our problems and hope that Dish Fixes them soon, the more I hear about this problem the more I think there is a problem at the Uplink. 

Think about it, most folks machines have ran GREAT untill a few weeks ago (Before there was a software update) and then this problem started. (at about the tiime Echostar 8 fully went online) Since there was no software update then to cause the problem, I say (and not Echostar) that the problem lies somewhere at the uplink. Why does it only effect one tuner and not the other? I don't know.

I do agree that Echostar has a problem releasing products that work as advertised, but if you think about it WE (yes we!) pushed them to release the 721 before it was done just because someone at Echostar decided to issue release dates when they showed the receivers at the CES shows. As you remember those dates came and went and people starting compligning "wheres the 721!" I honestly believe that they took what they had working on the 721 and released it just to make us hardcore users happy. Many of us KNEW going into the 721's that there probably would be some problems. Many of have been suprised by how few problems the 721 actually has. 

The 721 is still missing many functions it should have, OpenTV, Near Video on Demand, Internet Access, Messaging, Customer Support apps...

Of course with all being said yes you can go out and buy a DirecTivo and be happy, but I don't know about you I have a LOT of money invested in my Dish Network equipment. Yes my 721 may have some MINOR problems, but you couldn't pry the 721 remote from my hands if you tried. With its flaws it is still a great product.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Wel I haved stuck with E thru thick and thin because I am a sky angel lifetime sub, and really dont want to have 2 seperate systems. But the bugs are bugging me and the parells with the DP very troublesome..


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## factory (Nov 10, 2002)

I have noticed the same problems with the 721, regarding screen freezes and rebooting.

The unit has rebooted twice this morning in less than 20 minutes. Each time it is giving an 'acquiring signal' message, along with a frozen screen.

It also did the same last night, but I dismissed it as a storm was in the area (poor signal). This does not appear to be the case this morning.

I think with all the posts on this issue, there is obviously something up !

Now another storm has come through and the unit has rebooted again. I don't think it's normal for a reboot due to signal loss? 

Seems as though it is rebooting both due to signal fade and for another reason?

Jason


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## factory (Nov 10, 2002)

Just a followup - the 721 has not rebooted since my last post (Sunday). I'm assuming this is resolved for others as well - I have not seen any new posts...

Jason


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## TruePlayer (Nov 13, 2002)

I just hooked up my 721 last night, and i love it! But looking at this thread kinda freaks me out.

I had the same problem with my 501 pvr (signal drop, frequent macro-blocking). I tolerated it for the past 3 months until it got really bad. I put a 301 in its place to see if the problem was the box or the line. The 301 did not exhibit any of the problems, it was flawless. 
I hooked up the 501 again and it still had problems. This seemed to be when the hard drive was full. I could barely watch any programing on it. It started to work much better after i deleted everything off the hard drive. But after a couple weeks the problem came back.
I had the 501 replaced and haven't seen the problem since. I came to the conclusion that there were bad blocks on the hard drive and the 501 skipped up when it was trying to write to them. The 501 was used for about a year and was left on frequently. Hard drives are not built very well these days and these pvrs work them pretty hard. 



I noticed the 721 has a disabled hard drive check in the diagnostic menu. Is there any info on this? That would be great if the 721 could repair the drive.

btw, this forum is great. thanks!


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