# HR20 Dual Buffer (Work Around)



## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Currently, technically a dual buffer does not exist. 
However, for all practical purposes something better exists.

*Try this once! It works great!!!*

1.) *Tune to channel A * (live buffer of 90 min)

2.)* Use quick guide to record desired channel B * (unlimited buffer)

3.) *Start playback of channel B recording*

4.)* Press prev. button *- will autopause and take you *INSTANTLY* back to live tv channel A

5.) Press prev. button again and you will go back to recording *INSTANTLY* (channel B will auto play from where you had left off)

You can toggle the prev. button to repeat the tuner switch endlessly.


----------



## f300v10 (Feb 11, 2005)

My question is does it take you back to current live channel A, or does it begin playback from where you were before you switched to channel B?


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

It sounds like your just alternating between your recording on tuner b and Live TV on tuner a. So tuner a is not buffering, right?


----------



## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

How is this better than hitting the down button on my HR10 remote?

I don't have to set up recordings.

I can pause and go back to where I was.

I can rewind to anything I missed.

I can change channels on a whim (resulting in new buffers, yes) without resetting a recording.

How is this better again?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> How is this better than hitting the down button on my HR10 remote?
> 
> I don't have to set up recordings.
> 
> ...


Where did we say this was better? (with regards to dual buffers).

What he listed was a work around until Dual buffers are activated.


----------



## skierbri10 (Sep 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What he listed was a work around until Dual buffers are activated.


So...You're saying there's a chance.......:lol:


----------



## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

skierbri10 said:


> So...You're saying there's a chance.......:lol:


Sounded like a "for sure" to me!  :lol:


----------



## rmingee (Sep 11, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Where did we say this was better? (with regards to dual buffers).
> 
> What he listed was a work around until Dual buffers are activated.


Um, in the last line of his message, which was "Even better than dual buffer!" :lol:

Personally, I use dual buffers extensively during the NCAA tourney. I occasionally use it on the Sundays that I am home and get to watch football live instead of recording just the Bears to watch later. The rest of the time, it is a convenience, but not a necessity. But I'm gonna be pissed if they aren't there by March Madness 

-- robert


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

My bad.... sorry about that......


----------



## talbain (Sep 6, 2006)

and it's still not the same thing. with this workaround, you're locked into two channels it seems. the tivo dual buffer allows you to pause/switch to your heart's content on either tuner on any channel. forcing you to record one takes one tuner away...


----------



## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

talbain said:


> the tivo dual buffer allows you to pause/switch to your heart's content on either tuner on any channel. forcing you to record one takes one tuner away...


I understand the part that this is not the same thing, but I don't understand the part about "forcing you to record one takes one tuner away". Dual buffer by definition uses both tuners anyway. Same for Tivo. Buffer is just a rolling recoding you don't keep. You still need to devote a tuner to each buffer.

Thanks, Wanderer. I have been using two recording as workaround. Your method is better.

For the record, I think "dual buffer" is a must have. I know Early doesn't use it, but I use it everyday. I absolutely miss true dual buffer.

<Edit> Reading Talbain's posting again, I think I understand what he is saying. Did you mean you can't change the channel that is being recorded without cancelling the recording and start a new one? In that case, I can see why you call that losing a tuner. However, this is a workaround, not the real thing.


----------



## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

Why does *anyone* need DUAL BUFFERS anyway? (After all, we DO have dual tuner DVRs)

Just record both programs and watch them later.. um... no brainer... BONUS: now you can watch them ONE at a time and don't have to switch back and forth interupting the flow of the episode you are seeing.

Just record them and watch another older show to get some TV done whilst waiting for your 'two shows' to finish.

EZ... and perfect!! AND... you don't need to switch back and forth.. you just watch one... finish it.. and watch the next. I guess I have NO idea why people would want to use dual 'live' buffers.. especially since most likely most of us work full time for a living and can't watch 'live' TV anyway... for myself, I don't have time for ANY tv during the week, so I just save it ALL up for the weekends (example... NOW... as I just finished Thursdays ER and am now watching a "HD Destinations" show)


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Slyster said:


> Why does *anyone* need DUAL BUFFERS anyway? (After all, we DO have dual tuner DVRs)
> 
> Just record both programs and watch them later.. um... no brainer... BONUS: now you can watch them ONE at a time and don't have to switch back and forth interupting the flow of the episode you are seeing.


Agreed. I thought that was the whole purpose of having a DVR - doesn't the R stand for recorder? 

To me, dual buffer viewing is kinda like watching 2 strippers at the same time - you can only see so much for so long, before losing interest in the other show or else you forget what the other show even looks like...and hopefully you don't miss anything! :lol:

Yeah, I guess for the platinum level couch potato who wants to push green, yellow, red, and blue buttons all night, it may be nice to have trick buttons and the like, but certainly, these are neither "critical" nor "must have" items. :nono2:

Not to worry...at the rate that D* has delivered firmware updates, my guess is that these HR20's will be able to turn on just with an owner's mind-meld thoughts and no hands before you know it. :eek2:


----------



## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Slyster said:


> Why does *anyone* need DUAL BUFFERS anyway? (After all, we DO have dual tuner DVRs)
> 
> Just record both programs and watch them later.. um... no brainer... BONUS: now you can watch them ONE at a time and don't have to switch back and forth interupting the flow of the episode you are seeing.
> 
> ...


You are obviously not a sports fan.

Believe it or not, not all people watch TV the way you do.


----------



## BrettStah (Feb 7, 2003)

Slyster said:


> Why does *anyone* need DUAL BUFFERS anyway?


I'll answer you from my point of view... When there are two football games on at the same time that I want to watch, I'll watch some of one game, then pause, flip to the second game, watch it for awhile, pause, flip to the first game, etc. This is desirable for a few reasons:

1) With sports, I really don't want to know what's already happened before I get a chance to see it "live" (slightly delayed live, in reality), and football broadcasts have a habit of periodically showing the scores (and sometimes video highlight replays) of other games. So I can't really watch an entire game without having the second game spoiled in some way. Hence my method of watching a little bit of one game, then a little bit of the second game, and so forth.

2) I will sometimes "catch up" to live on one of the football games. At that point, I obviously can't fast-forward past the commercials, etc. So I pause, and flip to the other game, letting the other game buffer some more.

Now, for me personally, the necessity of having two "buffers" isn't as important as having the ability to switch between two things, even if one or both are being recorded. But a critical component of that is having the DVR remember the paused location of each of the things being buffered/recorded. Assuming this is resolved successfully, I can live with only one buffer, and I'd just record the second game. I record both games on my HD-Tivo now a lot of the time anyway, to avoid accidental channel changes that clear the buffer.


----------



## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

I would say why does one need to watch sports live any more than E.R. or other show live? Just an opinion. (Obviously I don't watch any sports... except FISHING! Love fishing shows.. but I don't ever watch them live)


----------



## Xaa (Nov 17, 2005)

The bummer of this work around for me anyway is that I cannot keep my paused location on Program A. Only on Program B which is being recorded. (unless I'm doing something wrong)

Xaa


----------



## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Slyster said:


> I would say why does one need to watch sports live any more than E.R. or other show live? Just an opinion. (Obviously I don't watch any sports... except FISHING! Love fishing shows.. but I don't ever watch them live)


Your basic premise is that people shouldn't ever watch TV live. Once again, people do not watch TV the same way.

For example, I come home from work, maybe want to catch local news and scores. Dual buffers allows me accomplish that very quickly and at the time I want to do it, not later at night, not on the weekend.

I, like I suspect alot of people, watch a mix of timeshifted and live shows. There is no specific "need" to do that, it simply fits my schedule better to do so and dual buffers helped to enable me to do so more effeciently. I don't have the luxury to spend my entire weekend catching up on TV.


----------



## BrettStah (Feb 7, 2003)

Slyster said:


> I would say why does one need to watch sports live any more than E.R. or other show live?


Do you like knowing how your non-sports shows turn out before you watch them? 


> (Obviously I don't watch any sports... except FISHING! Love fishing shows.. but I don't ever watch them live)


I think you're trolling right now, so that makes sense.


----------



## f300v10 (Feb 11, 2005)

Xaa said:


> The bummer of this work around for me anyway is that I cannot keep my paused location on Program A. Only on Program B which is being recorded. (unless I'm doing something wrong)
> 
> Xaa


Have you tried recording both A and B? That 'should' remember where to re-start playback on A.


----------



## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

skierbri10 said:


> So...You're saying there's a chance.......:lol:


Hello Lloyd! :grin:


----------



## Rugged (Sep 16, 2006)

WANDERER said:


> Currently, technically a dual buffer does not exist.
> However, for all practical purposes something better exists.
> 
> *Try this once! It works great!!!*
> ...


I have to be doing something wrong because I can't seem to get channel B to auto play from where I switched from. The autopause doesn't work and when I manually pause it doesn't work.

any ideas what i'm doing wrong.


----------



## WANDERER (Sep 27, 2006)

Rugged said:


> I have to be doing something wrong because I can't seem to get channel B to auto play from where I switched from. The autopause doesn't work and when I manually pause it doesn't work.
> 
> any ideas what i'm doing wrong.


not really - keep trying -


----------



## M3Rocket (Sep 20, 2007)

BrettStah said:


> I'll answer you from my point of view... When there are two football games on at the same time that I want to watch, I'll watch some of one game, then pause, flip to the second game, watch it for awhile, pause, flip to the first game, etc. This is desirable for a few reasons:
> 
> 1) With sports, I really don't want to know what's already happened before I get a chance to see it "live" (slightly delayed live, in reality), and football broadcasts have a habit of periodically showing the scores (and sometimes video highlight replays) of other games. So I can't really watch an entire game without having the second game spoiled in some way. Hence my method of watching a little bit of one game, then a little bit of the second game, and so forth.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely how I used to watch multiple games with Sunday Ticket on a DirecTiVo. The lack of proper pause on SLB and/or DLB on my recently installed HR20's (I knew this beforehand) has really thrown me for a loop on Sundays.  So I've resorted to recording two games at once, but then--there is no quick way to switch between two recorded programs either!


----------



## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

Another thread about a DLB "workaround". It just doesn't exist. For those people who really used DLB, this "workaround" is useless and its been documented well enough here and in other places.

The NFLST was designed for people who want to watch multiple games. DLB was set up perfectly for this. There are at least 4 games going on at once, and I routinely would switch between all 4, though always carrying a buffer on 2 of the 4 (or 5 or 6).

If I set up a recording on one or more games, I am locked into THAT game, or both game. How do I switch to the 3rd or 4th game if I am locking up both tuners?

I love to channel surf on weekends, and I can easily find 2-3 shows at a time I want to switch back and forth on. But I don't want to be forced to record 1 or 2 shows throughout my surfing just to have that buffer. 

But thats just me, though I know there are more people like me.


----------



## BrettStah (Feb 7, 2003)

M3Rocket said:


> This is absolutely how I used to watch multiple games with Sunday Ticket on a DirecTiVo. The lack of proper pause on SLB and/or DLB on my recently installed HR20's (I knew this beforehand) has really thrown me for a loop on Sundays.  So I've resorted to recording two games at once, but then--there is no quick way to switch between two recorded programs either!


Well, it's not what I would term "quick", but here is how you can switch between two games that you're recording (first, make sure that you are either recording whatever comes on after the game, or make sure that you pad each game by a good amount of time!):

Press "List" on the remote, select the first game you want to watch first, press "Play". When you're ready to switch to the second game, press "Pause", press "List", select the second game, then press "Play". Repeat to go back to the first game.

For those non-Tivo owners, you just pause whatever you're watching live, then press the "down" button to switch to the other game, and just repeat that (pause/down).


----------



## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Actually, ignoring the setup of recording both games, you can do it with 1 more press than with Tivo. Just use STOP, then either down or up arrow and PLAY. The reason it works is because STOP takes you back to the list, highlighting the one that were just watching and if they are both recording, they will be at position 1 and 2, so either you need to move up 1 or down 1 line and hitting PLAY starts the recording. And STOP maintains your pause point.


----------



## christo76 (Sep 12, 2006)

The big issue with all these "workarounds" is still that you are limited to 2 shows/games. And now with all the new HD channel, space on the harddrive is more limited then before.

In order to record 2 HD NFL games, you need to have over 25% free. And if there is games you want to watch that are on later, and you haven't finished your games, you will need much more.

If I could pause on a live buffer and switch to a recorded show, that would go a LONG way....

Though, now that Earl has changed his tune (although I assume it was a mistake) by saying 'until they activate DLB', maybe I won't need to worry about SLB


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Personally I would not read volumes into Earl's use of the word "until." I don't think Earl has changed his tune, we moderators all agree basically, that:

DLB isn't out of the question, but it is nowhere on the horizon that we know. 

This workaround is a good one, and I appreciate it being brought to the attention of all HR20 users! The thread is old, but the information is good!


----------



## HolmesCo (Dec 4, 2006)

Xaa said:


> The bummer of this work around for me anyway is that I cannot keep my paused location on Program A. Only on Program B which is being recorded. (unless I'm doing something wrong)
> 
> Xaa


I titally agree with this. I have tried this technique many times in the last year and it never works. The live show always is at the current live part when I return to it, NOT at the spot where I left it, eve if I pause it before going to previous.

The only thing that might work is recording both shows at the same time and using list to toggle, but I think I have even had problems with that.

I don't know where this apparent exclusive use of DLBs and sports happened either, I use it for all kinds of shows, to avoid commercials. In fact I don't think I used it much at all with sports games, but its the same principal isn't it, to avoid the commercials, and maybe that is why D* is avoiding it. Pressure from with out?


----------



## jimstick (Feb 5, 2007)

christo76 said:


> The big issue with all these "workarounds" is still that you are limited to 2 shows/games.


You would still be limited to two shows even with DLB, because when you switch to a third, you will lose the first (or second). Right?


----------



## kmill14 (Jun 12, 2007)

jimstick said:


> You would still be limited to two shows even with DLB, because when you switch to a third, you will lose the first (or second). Right?


Yes, but you don't have to stop recording one show and starting recording another, and back and for etc. Do people really not flip around to different programs anymore???


----------



## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

kmill14 said:


> Yes, but you don't have to stop recording one show and starting recording another, and back and for etc. Do people really not flip around to different programs anymore???


Nope. The only reason I do it on football is to not be spoiled by the score. If I could record 2 games that were on at the same time and be guaranteed to not see the score, I would watch one complete game and then the other. The problem is that it is too likely to hear the other score, which would ruin it for me.


----------



## christo76 (Sep 12, 2006)

jimstick said:


> You would still be limited to two shows even with DLB, because when you switch to a third, you will lose the first (or second). Right?


It allows you to change which 2 games/shows you want to watch.

Actually I always thought DLB was better for non-sports. You see something that seems interesting on Disc/NGC/Hist, so you tune to it and pause, and go back to another show live. When the live show hits commercial, hit pause-down, start watching the other show.. if its good you keep watching, if crap you switch to a new one. Then go back to the paused 'live' show and continue watching. Works great around this time of year where there are so many new shows and you don't know if you want to record them, much less waste the time to sit down ahead of time and search for them and set up a record.

OR... say you want to see the news/weather without all the fluff crap stories... you know, like when they say "Coming up next, we'll tell you which product you are holding right now, that is guaranteed to cause you cancer!!", but don't say when they will tell you. You leave one tuner on the new, and the other allows you to surf or watch another. Then a bit later, you can tune back, skip through to the good story/weather and be done. Or, you start on channel 4 with an 'ok' show. You hit guide, move up and see something interesting, tune in. Now you have 2 'ok' shows to watch at once. Still hoping for something better, you hit guide again and keep scrolling up looking for something better. When you find it, you can ditch the lesser of the 2 shows you had. This way you always have something on thats worth watching while you continue to hunt for that elusive Awesome show. All the while, never being stuck in commercial hell.

Personally I thinks its ridiculous to just hit record for every single show you ever tune to, just in case you want to watch it. 90% of the time its gonna be crap you just delete 5 minutes in.


----------



## Milominderbinder2 (Oct 8, 2006)

The only thing that makes this workaround not work is the fact that the Live Buffer does not pause where you left it.

Right now, if I am watching live TV and get caught up to real time. I would like to be able to PAUSE and then watch a recording for a while and then come back to where I left off.

Even if I had left the buffer PAUSED, the HR20 will disregard it and when I return put me to the current time.

Even if they can't do DLB, why can't I pause the live buffer, watch a recording and come back where I left off?

That is all this simple DLB workaround needs to be functional as well.

Then your steps could be:

1.) *Tune to channel A*

2.)* Press ® to quick record.*

3.) *Go to the other channel and start watching.*

4.)* Press PAUSE PREV to toggle between channels*

5.) *When you are done press LIST ● to delete the temporary recording*

The only thing keeping this from working is that the HR20 will not let you pause the buffer, watch a recording and return to the life buffer where you left it paused.

Just fix the PAUSE button and you have made the DLB workaround twice as easy to use.

- Craig


----------



## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

If you haven't voted on it, we already have this request on the current Wish List, so please let D* know that this feature is important to you:

*Remember if the LIVE BUFFER is PAUSED, when using PREV to toggle between LIVE TV and recording PLAYBACK.*

TIA. /steve


----------



## M3Rocket (Sep 20, 2007)

BrettStah said:


> Well, it's not what I would term "quick", but here is how you can switch between two games that you're recording (first, make sure that you are either recording whatever comes on after the game, or make sure that you pad each game by a good amount of time!):
> 
> Press "List" on the remote, select the first game you want to watch first, press "Play". When you're ready to switch to the second game, press "Pause", press "List", select the second game, then press "Play". Repeat to go back to the first game.
> 
> For those non-Tivo owners, you just pause whatever you're watching live, then press the "down" button to switch to the other game, and just repeat that (pause/down).


My definition of quick is the down arrow as it was implemented on the DirectTiVo with DLB! :grin:

Really, if they would just get SLB with pause hold to work, and the Prev button to jump between a recording and the SLB, it would really alleviate most of the complaints.


----------



## M3Rocket (Sep 20, 2007)

Milominderbinder2 said:


> The only thing that makes this workaround not work is the fact that the Live Buffer does not pause where you left it.
> 
> Right now, if I am watching live TV and get caught up to real time. I would like to be able to PAUSE and then watch a recording for a while and then come back to where I left off.
> 
> ...


This is the clearest explanation of what I would accept as an alternative to a fully working DLB--bravo! The inability to hold a pause point when switching between a recorded program and a buffered live program is, IMHO, even more annoying than not having DLB.


----------



## Que (Apr 15, 2006)

Steve said:


> If you haven't voted on it, we already have this request on the current Wish List, so please let D* know that this feature is important to you:
> 
> *Remember if the LIVE BUFFER is PAUSED, when using PREV to toggle between LIVE TV and recording PLAYBACK.*
> 
> TIA. /steve


So is this even on there "TO DO" list? This would be a good work around if only the pause point would work.


----------



## DblD_Indy (Dec 3, 2006)

Nice to see the DLB discussion lives.....

Any work around is like trying to hang two marbles under my dog and convince him he has his nads. it just ain't the same.


----------



## christo76 (Sep 12, 2006)

DblD_Indy said:


> Nice to see the DLB discussion lives.....
> 
> Any work around is like trying to hang two marbles under my dog and convince him he has his nads. it just ain't the same.


LOL... that is awesome...

big +1


----------

