# Dish to have 200 channel HD capacity by the end of next year?



## allargon (May 3, 2007)

Apparently, E* plans to put two more birds into the air as well bringing them to a 200 HD channel capacity. 

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/05/16/16hdtv.html

I'm wondering if the reporter got his numbers confused.

I would love more channels. I would really love it if Dish went back to transmitting full 1080i instead of HD-lite. (I would also love it if Food Network and HGTV HD transmitted HD instead of upconverted DVD quality video.)


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

Hmmm. So how I just don't belive it but who knows, things can happen! That makes for a better HD capacity war which benefit us consumers!


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

This is actually old news, and has been discussed in the forums already... supposedly the satellites in question are going up later this year. Not sure it means anything until they are in the air... but is at least as good of news as DirecTV has been announcing.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Oky way off topic how about Dish run ADS with a great looking woman saying you will be missing the good 200 club. Join dish and get this great body in HD with over 200 HD channel capable.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

tomcrown1 said:


> Oky way off topic how about Dish run ADS with great looking woman sayiny you will be missing the good 200 club. Join dish and get this great body in HD with over 200 HD channel capable.


You don't think that would be premature right now?


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## huskerpat (Apr 20, 2007)

Does this mean I'll need new hardware?


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Mikey said:


> You don't think that would be premature right now?


Why not, Directv keeps talking about their HD "capacity" of 150.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A tad early for that promotion ... I'd rather it be the case of "D* promises ... E* delivers".


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

derwin0 said:


> Why not, Directv keeps talking about their HD "capacity" of 150.


Yep, that's what I mean by "premature".


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> A tad early for that promotion ... I'd rather it be the case of "D* promises ... E* delivers".


I think a better answer would be both make GOOD on their promises. Are you hoping DirecTV fails?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok I have deleted all the off-topic posts. 

To answer your question Pepper as to where did the thread go.. Look in the forum support forum.. You will see my post there... it was asked to be removed by the OP.. If you don't believe me. PM him.. I am sure he will be happy to tell you he requested it.

As to the other questions... Be happy to take them off-line michaelqizzi. Feel free to PM me. Flaming is counter productive and is not cool to allargon whose thread this is so please stay on topic.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ScoBuck said:


> I think a better answer would be both make GOOD on their promises. Are you hoping DirecTV fails?


I don't want D* to fail. Any success on their part helps drive E* to be even better.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> I don't want D* to fail. Any success on their part helps drive E* to be even better.


I have to understand the overall body of your answers to imply that you don't in any way feel that D* even MIGHT end up with the better HD offering then. What is the difference? In my case, at the end of the day if I feel that I can get better served elsewhere I will make the move. I haven't dug a foxhole and do not feel the need to fight until I run out of shells.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Without overextending the metaphor ... D* has ordered ammo but it has yet to arrive.

BOTH satellites are successful businesses and will stay that way. I wish failure on neither satellite company - I expect both to do well.

But - a promise of 100 channels that may or may not be available to uplink is not equal to 32 channels already available with a suggestion that there may be 38 by the end of the year (without upgrade). The comments made to dealers about this new system are interesting but as of yet E* has not made a promise to the public that any such system will be available. (A good thing, IMHO.)


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I and many others have absolutely no problem when a company let's the public in on a Major undertaking to upgrade its system and services. To me it has always been crystal clear that the national channel deliversbles are dependent on.launch of sats and launch of content. Saying that I am also aware of the potential things that can cause delay. I also read auto magazines - they also give insight into future models and what is coming out next year - I enjoy that, find nothing at all wrong with it. Just yesterday Motorola announced a new RAZR mode - not available yet. So what? The announcement is designed to get people wanting. As long as the intent is honest I think its more than acceptable to share the future vision. Companies do it all the time.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

ScoBuck said:


> I and many others have absolutely no problem when a company let's the public in on a Major undertaking to upgrade its system and services. To me it has always been crystal clear that the national channel deliversbles are dependent on.launch of sats and launch of content. Saying that I am also aware of the potential things that can cause delay. I also read auto magazines - they also give insight into future models and what is coming out next year - I enjoy that, find nothing at all wrong with it. Just yesterday Motorola announced a new RAZR mode - not available yet. So what? The announcement is designed to get people wanting. As long as the intent is honest I think its more than acceptable to share the future vision. Companies do it all the time.


ScoBuck,

While that is true, there have been major problems with these sorts of Announcements. OsBourne (sp) destroyed their company by making an announcement of a new model WAY to early. This destroyed sales of the current model and sucked away all their sales which strapped them for cash that caused them to NEVER release their new product. This is one of the biggest, and one of the first cases of Vaporware in the Tech field.

Now with that said DirecTV has been promising 50-100 new National HD channels since 2004. Dude, its 2007 and they have YET TO DELIVER. Never pick a company or service based on future promises. I picked Dish because they can deliver more HD to ME NOW, not at some future date that MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN.

I hope Dish's new MPEG4 only service, which has yet to be touted ad naseum ala DirecTV, gets launched in late 2007 or early 2008. But, as stated this is NOT keeping me, what is keeping me is 32 National HD channels NOW.

Should DirecTV beat Dish, doubtful since Dish can't afford to lose the HD arms race, with tons of HD I will re-evaluate that decision

John


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

JohnL said:


> ScoBuck,
> 
> Now with that said DirecTV has been promising 50-100 new National HD channels since 2004. Dude, its 2007 and they have YET TO DELIVER. .
> 
> John


Considering that they said that the delivery date for the HD nationals was 2007 - in fact they are right on schedule. How can you overlook such a vital part of the info?

Also that promise consisted of launching 2 sats in 2005 (done) buying and building 2 more sats (done) and launching in 2007 (first scheduled for June 20). Second will be delayed a few months as we know - but to say they have yet to deliver is not true. All of this steps are moving about as planned actually.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm anticipating the end of the year... when both companies are evaluated again and compared to their announcement of "promises" by the end of the year... and will be curious to see if folks have the same opinion 7 months from now that they have now.

Will DirecTV folks still think they are on schedule? Will those 100 channels even exist? Will the story change to "we never said we would have them, just capacity so we are still on schedule"? Will a miracle occur and DirecTV launches 150 nationalHD?

Will Dish folks be happy with 32 or 38 channels? Will Dish announce and/or launch the rumored MPEG4 service? Will Dish be strapped for capacity and there be lots of nationals available and people complaining because DirecTV has more HD?

Who knows... but I'll be very interested to revisit things the end of the year and see if people on either side have switched their arguments.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm sorry, is this the D* forum?
Please stay on track. Seems like we have another one of those threads.

Enough said ... talk about Dish now, please.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

I was thinking that this was the debate forum between JAMES LONG and SCOBUCK.

Hey thats an idea a new forum for James Long and Scobuck to debate in.

Anyone else think this is a good idea??

Better yet this will be one of Dish new HD channels, which will not be available on Direct TV.reach:


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

I won't hold either company to any absolute number as a do all/be all.they have little control on a content provider hitting a target date. 

I do believe that back in 2004 that directv had some basis for their projections of 100 channels being available by the end of 2007 - these companies already do business with them.

Same with dish. My concern lies with both of them doing the needed things to be able to have bandwidth for what IS available.

The rest of these arguments have litle substance to me. 

If directv10 goes up as scheduled and there are only 50 channels ready - oh well. I know every month or or so more will be added. Works for me!


.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

HDMe said:


> ... Will Dish announce and/or launch the rumored MPEG4 service?...


Note it is not a rumor but was formally announced, although only to their smaller Team summit audience. It of course depends on when/if Dish will deliver the service. They apparently have been burned too often by widely announcing things, for example on Charlie Chats, than failing to deliver.

Still its in their plans and will probably deliver sometime between the end of the year or next year. The rollout to customers may take longer. Obviously they hope to keep even or ahead of DirecTv on total HD channels that they can offer.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Team Summit announcements are practically internal communications ... while they make no effort to keep the information confidential (they are telling too many people to keep a secret!) it is not like CES, a press release, or an announcement to their customers via bill inserts, on satellite advertising or Charlie Chats/Tech Forums. I don't hold such announcements to the same standards.

That being said, what I meant above was that this has slipped into yet another debate thread over whether D* can keep a promise. Something more suited to the D* forums. Let's talk DBS and, in this forum, let's talk E*. Plenty of room for D* vs E* in the general satellite forum and D* talk in D* general.

Thanks for staying on topic.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> A tad early for that promotion ... I'd rather it be the case of "D* promises ... E* delivers".


As long as you stay on topic, I promise I will. If you can comment and cast negativism on different providrs in a thread, them all members can. Again I repeat - I hope ALL of them live up to their promises, it will be great for all of us _ I only hope that DISH finds a way to up their sports offering (and provide the NYC DMA with the largest RSN in the country).

I have no agenda against any provider except CABLEVISION actually.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

James Long said:


> Plenty of room for D* vs E* in the general satellite forum and D* talk in D* general.
> 
> Thanks for staying on topic.


What about in E* talk in E* general? isn't that the same but in reverse?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

This is an E* forum on DBSTalk ...
I you don't like an E* bias stay in the D* forums at DBSTalk. 

You have made your point. We know where you stand.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

allargon said:


> Apparently, E* plans to put two more birds into the air as well bringing them to a 200 HD channel capacity.
> 
> http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/05/16/16hdtv.html
> 
> ...


Interesting that no one has figured out that Dish does not have the new licenses for 2 new orbital position within 9 degrees of each other (which is about what you will need for the 18 inch dish they spoke of) to put these 2 new birds in a Conus location to build a whole new MPEG4 network - thus the whole thing is very strange in and of itself.


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## Wu-Infinite (Mar 24, 2007)

I could care less is D* has over 100 hd channels, I been with E* since 97 and that's were i'm staying.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

Wu-Infinite said:


> I could care less is D* has over 100 hd channels, I been with E* since 97 and that's were i'm staying.


lol....there's some great logic  I am sure Charlie would show that same loyalty back to you, as has been seen by tens of thousands of posts on how satellite companies treat their customers.

There is a reason on J.P. Powers Customer Satisfaction surveys, the only industry that scores lower are airlines - the IRS even scores higher.

You remind me of the Harvard Business School case study from the turn of the 20th Century where a very rich man died leaving his entire estate to his heirs. He knew that horse and buggies were the past and seeing the rise of automobiles and the congestion they presented as the cities grew, he realized public transportation was the future, and thus he stipulated that his entire estate could only be invested into trolley car companies.

His heirs died broke.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Interesting that no one has figured out that Dish does not have the new licenses for 2 new orbital position within 9 degrees of each other (which is about what you will need for the 18 inch dish they spoke of) to put these 2 new birds in a Conus location to build a whole new MPEG4 network - thus the whole thing is very strange in and of itself.


Do they need new licenses if they are replacing existing birds? They are going to replace 129 for sure and then they will have to move the 2nd bird into the locations between 110 to 129. If they have full power birds at 110, 119, & 129 then they won't need different dishes than we already have. Just the replacement of the 129 bird would give E* the ability to run 192 MPEG 4 channels at that location.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

By the same reasoning that E* and D* use, over-the-air has the over 1200 channels of "potential HDTV" currently operating, with "potentially" thousands more:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/files/dtvonair.html


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> Do they need new licenses if they are replacing existing birds? They are going to replace 129 for sure and then they will have to move the 2nd bird into the locations between 110 to 129. If they have full power birds at 110, 119, & 129 then they won't need different dishes than we already have. Just the replacement of the 129 bird would give E* the ability to run 192 MPEG 4 channels at that location.


:nono2:

Just as a Dish 300/Dish 500 will not cover 110-129, an 18" dish which they said would be all you needed will not cover 110-129. And if you think the Dish 1000 is 18 inches, you need a new ruler.

And lets not forget, they LOOSE transponders when the new 129 goes into orbit.

Why would you think that they will dump all the SD channels on 110W and 119W when a new bird goes up - as about 90% of their subs are only SD at this time. In fact, if that was their plan, they could do it today.

Furthermore, its not like they own all the transponders on 110 and 119 anyway.

So, try again.......


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> And lets not forget, they LOOSE transponders when the new 129 goes into orbit.


Good grief, the LOOSE transponder problem again. :hurah:

Your post is correct except that I think you mean that they will LOSE transponders.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I thought I read that the satellites would be located at 86.5 and 97 degrees. If this is true then you could get them on one 18 inch dish.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> :nono2:
> 
> Just as a Dish 300/Dish 500 will not cover 110-129, an 18" dish which they said would be all you needed will not cover 110-129. And if you think the Dish 1000 is 18 inches, you need a new ruler.
> 
> ...


Are you living in the days of SD only? 129 isn't a bird that carries the same thing that 110/119 does. NO MORE do we live w/single slot dishes. ALL I stated was that a new bird using MPEG 4 could carry 192 channels. I said nothing about what is going to be on 110/119. I stated that w/full power birds in all 3 locations that they wouldn't need new dishes (3 slot). Of course if you are not in the HD camp then why are you in the forum that is talking about Dish HD? This is an HD discussion not talking about the SD content. In the days of only needing 1 18" dish there was little or no thought about HD channels. BTW a dish 500 is a 21" dish. They will not LOSE transponders when the replacement for 129 goes up. It has the same number as the bird it is replacing. It will just be MPEG 4 compatible. As time goes by all providers will be shifting to MPEG 4 from MPEG 2. So as this takes place the older receivers will be dying and being replaced w/ new units that will be able to utilize the new advances that MPEG 4 will give the industry.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

BNUMM said:


> I thought I read that the satellites would be located at 86.5 and 97 degrees. If this is true then you could get them on one 18 inch dish.


That would mean we HD'rs would all need new dishes w/5 locations. I don't think this will happen, they just put in the 3 bird dishes.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I thought the idea was to put all HD and SD on the new birds in MPEG4 and SD viewers in MPEG2 on the "old" satellites.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Status Quo on "old birds" MPEG4 only on "new slots" ... TBA.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

James Long said:


> Status Quo on "old birds" MPEG4 only on "new slots" ... TBA.


Are you saying that 129 is not going to be the location for one of the new birds? If true this means that they are going to have to change out to new dishes again or have some kind of adapter?


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> Are you living in the days of SD only? 129 isn't a bird that carries the same thing that 110/119 does. NO MORE do we live w/single slot dishes. ALL I stated was that a new bird using MPEG 4 could carry 192 channels. I said nothing about what is going to be on 110/119. I stated that w/full power birds in all 3 locations that they wouldn't need new dishes (3 slot). Of course if you are not in the HD camp then why are you in the forum that is talking about Dish HD? This is an HD discussion not talking about the SD content. In the days of only needing 1 18" dish there was little or no thought about HD channels. BTW a dish 500 is a 21" dish. They will not LOSE transponders when the replacement for 129 goes up. It has the same number as the bird it is replacing. It will just be MPEG 4 compatible. As time goes by all providers will be shifting to MPEG 4 from MPEG 2. So as this takes place the older receivers will be dying and being replaced w/ new units that will be able to utilize the new advances that MPEG 4 will give the industry.


Get a grip.

You might believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but that doesn't mean they really exist.

Now, if you believe that E* blow up service to over 85% of their customers to give you Voom #2, you need serious help.



whatchel1 said:


> Are you saying that 129 is not going to be the location for one of the new birds? If true this means that they are going to have to change out to new dishes again or have some kind of adapter?


who's behind on the times now?


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

BNUMM said:


> I thought I read that the satellites would be located at 86.5 and 97 degrees. If this is true then you could get them on one 18 inch dish.


The problem is (which apparently E* didn't read the NASA studies or any physics report) but rain fade is 3x as bad in the Ka band as it is in Ku.

Furthermore, as anyone who has worked with a AT9 or AU9 knows, the beam is much more precise and much harder to peak.

When you have rainfade 3x that of Ku and a dish of that size is just asking for nightmares - that's why you go to a bigger dish to reduce the rainfade. In fact, the Ka signal is attenuated with just a wet dish.

Apparently Charlie thinks that D*'s dishes are getting bigger for reasons of envy, but as typical, it seems he has not looked at the scientific reasons (of course, that's never stopped him before).


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

HDTVFanAtic said:


> Get a grip.
> 
> You might believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but that doesn't mean they really exist.
> 
> ...


I think I was asking a reasonable question. No one supplied the answer. I have not said ANYTHING about losing 85% of his customers. 129 does not have the 85% of customers It has a very small % of the customers. It is primarily a bird that is being used for the HD programming, some sports, & a few LIL's. Over the next few years ( no drop dead date stated) the old MPEG 2 units will be phased out for MPEG 4 systems. To think otherwise is to be very much behind the times. Now take a chill pill and get off that high horse. The main point is where are the new birds going? When are they going up and if they go into an existing spot do you need a new license for those replacement birds. So answer the question and end the HDTVFanAticism


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HDTVFanAtic, try to be polite in your lambasting of fellow forum members ... thanks.

BTW, whatchel1, the current satellite at 129° is "MPEG4 compatible" ... as is all of E*'s existing satellites and leased satellite space. So it is not an issue of launching "MPEG4 compatible satellites". It is an issue of space.

E* has not released the details of the claim ... and so far they have only made the claim to their own employees, unfortunately at a public event where the media picked up the comments. There will be more clarity WHEN E* is ready to tell the world for real about the new service.

Be patient.


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## HDTVFanAtic (Jul 23, 2005)

whatchel1 said:


> I think I was asking a reasonable question. No one supplied the answer. I have not said ANYTHING about losing 85% of his customers. 129 does not have the 85% of customers It has a very small % of the customers. It is primarily a bird that is being used for the HD programming, some sports, & a few LIL's. Over the next few years ( no drop dead date stated) the old MPEG 2 units will be phased out for MPEG 4 systems. To think otherwise is to be very much behind the times. Now take a chill pill and get off that high horse. The main point is where are the new birds going? When are they going up and if they go into an existing spot do you need a new license for those replacement birds. So answer the question and end the HDTVFanAticism


You must be a Spinmaster, as you were the one that said they were going to use 110 and 119 - thus dropping all the SD for HD.



whatchel1 said:


> Do they need new licenses if they are replacing existing birds? They are going to replace 129 for sure and then they will have to move the 2nd bird into the locations between 110 to 129. If they have full power birds at 110, 119, & 129 then they won't need different dishes than we already have. Just the replacement of the 129 bird would give E* the ability to run 192 MPEG 4 channels at that location.


Spin, Spin, Spin.

Again, 2 orbital positions that can be serviced by a Dish 300 size 18" dish which gives you no more than a 10 degree spacing (and increased rain fade if planning to use the Ka band) - thus you cannot use it for 110 and 129 - nor can you use Ka on 110/119/129 as Dish does not have the licenses for those positions.

We know they will need a minimum of 33 transponders for 200 HD Conus Channels at 6x per transponder.

Then the HD-LIL is on top of that - and clearly will require just about the same amount of transponders.

129W Dish will operate 16 transponders when the new bird goes up and they have 21 transponders on 119W.

38 transponders won't do it (nor are they planning to use 119W throwing off their SD Customers) - so as I have said from the beginning - Try Again.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

TODAY they need 33 TPs for 200 HDs (MPEG4, 8PSK and the best encoder E* has in active service). No telling what they will need tomorrow.

Be patient ... and be nice!


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