# Anyone else notice ????



## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Has anyone else noticed that there have been 6 updates for the HR20 and none for the R-15 since September ???? I dont consider this fix file system an update as its for only the 500 model and none of the others and it really adds nothing.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Most of their software engineers must be working on the HR20.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Has anyone else noticed that there have been 6 updates for the HR20 and none for the R-15 since September ???? I dont consider this fix file system an update as its for only the 500 model and none of the others and it really adds nothing.


Why should they??? It works perfectly.



Bobman said:


> I hate to say this in the midst of others having so many problems  but my 2 R-15's are working just fine. :righton: I wanted to throw in a good post among all the others.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I'll say it again, over here.. .what I said over in the HR20 forum.

The HR20 is 8 weeks old.... It has some critical things that are being addressed by THAT team.

The R15 is going on a year, and overall is pretty stable... yes, problems do exist. The have a fairly large update in testing... 

And given the volume of R15's installed (none of you would believe me if I told you the number), they don't have much room for error with the next software release... So they are making sure it is the quality they expect.

Don't expect the HR20 to continue to have weekly builds much longer.
Just like the R15, which had a flurry of releases in it's early months... the HR20 is just in that phase right now.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

I think what Earl is referring to is called the standard software lifecycle. When a system comes out, you're going to get frequent updates - to address the fires that invariably crop up (I don't care how well-designed and tested a system is, you're gonna spend your first couple weeks/months putting out fires). Part of it is the fact that the system is being widely used for the first time, and users can really put a system through its paces - stuff that testers would never have dreamed of testing. Also, developers will be closely monitoring a system once it gets rolled out - they anticipate problems, and so are ready to spring on them.

Once a system gets more stable, the focus invariably shifts. You go from putting out fires to doing more serious modifications, and upgrading functionality. When you're in fire-putout mode, you're going to get updates out quickly, to get the system stable. When you're in upgrade mode your software releases tend to get less frequent, but larger. Sounds like this is exactly what's happening with the R15 and the HR20.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

jpl said:


> I think what Earl is referring to is called the standard software lifecycle. When a system comes out, you're going to get frequent updates - to address the fires that invariably crop up (I don't care how well-designed and tested a system is, you're gonna spend your first couple weeks/months putting out fires). Part of it is the fact that the system is being widely used for the first time, and users can really put a system through its paces - stuff that testers would never have dreamed of testing. Also, developers will be closely monitoring a system once it gets rolled out - they anticipate problems, and so are ready to spring on them.
> 
> Once a system gets more stable, the focus invariably shifts. You go from putting out fires to doing more serious modifications, and upgrading functionality. When you're in fire-putout mode, you're going to get updates out quickly, to get the system stable. When you're in upgrade mode your software releases tend to get less frequent, but larger. Sounds like this is exactly what's happening with the R15 and the HR20.


Couldn't have said it any better....


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Is the R15 considered stable?

I must have been confused by the lock ups, freezes, and blank screens.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Is the R15 considered stable?
> 
> I must have been confused by the lock ups, freezes, and blank screens.


"Completely Debugged" Chase Carey 5/2006


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Is the R15 considered stable?
> 
> I must have been confused by the lock ups, freezes, and blank screens.


Considering I've had none of those... yeah, I do. And it's a matter of degree. No system is ever 100% stable. My old tivo used to freeze all the time - sometimes daily. I've only had my R15s for about 4 months, so I have no experience with many of the early problems that folks on here have talked about. Based on what I've read, though, compared to how the system was a year ago, it's the model of stability. Yeah, it still has bugs. I occasionally hit the frozen time bar. Once I had it lock up on a search. And I once got it into a somewhat funky state when I tried to kill a show - I added an hour to the end. I wanted to stop recording between the time the show was scheduled to end, and the end of the buffered time. The system was still usable, but it did something funky every time I got to the end of a show and it prompted me to delete. I've never hit a debilitating bug (the closest was the lock up on the search). So, yeah, I consider it to be pretty stable.

The rest of the issues I see center around the functionality - things I would like to see. They're not bugs, and they don't affect the stability of the system (limits, dual buffers, that kind of thing). I'm not trying to discount the problems that some people are having (I don't doubt that people have them), but by and large, I think the system is pretty stable.


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## Larry Daughtrey (Feb 14, 2006)

"it's the model of stability"
Yeah okay, I'll be nice and wont say it... GRRRRRRRRRRR


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

Larry Daughtrey said:


> "it's the model of stability"
> Yeah okay, I'll be nice and wont say it... GRRRRRRRRRRR


Isn't that what they said about the Edsel? And the Titanic?


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Exactly!!!!!:nono:


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The R15 is going on a year, and overall is pretty stable...


I don't consider almost daily resets, lockups and blank screens "stable". There is enough people with the exact same problems that I would hardly lump the R15 into the"stable" category.

I have a 300 model, and per Earls other post, I already have the file system "stability" fixes the 500's are getting now. The fact that my problems are still there after these "fixes" is cause for concern.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

jpl said:


> Considering I've had none of those... yeah, I do. And it's a matter of degree.


JPL, you can come to my house and be in charge of the daily resets and recepient of dirty looks from wife and child.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

MercurialIN said:


> Isn't that what they said about the Edsel? And the Titanic?


No they said the Titanic was unsinkable not stable. Big difference there. Edsel well to be honest I have no idea what they said about it.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> Edsel well to be honest I have no idea what they said about it.


Generally, just that it was the ugliest car ever designed. It wasn't a lemon, but it was sucking on a lemon:lol:

Carl


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

carl6 said:


> Generally, just that it was the ugliest car ever designed. It wasn't a lemon, but it was sucking on a lemon:lol:
> 
> Carl


Thats funny.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

Also remember................Noah's Ark was built by amateurs..........The Titanic was built by professionals.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Like I said, I don't discount the problems people have been happening. I'm sorry you're going through that. Doesn't change what I laid out, though. RELATIVE to how it was when it first came out the R15 is MORE stable than it was (from my understanding). No system is every fully stable. EVERY system has issues - particularly something as complex as a DVR (yes, it is a complex piece of s/w). And it's not a matter of what one particular person thinks (I could buy a car that has a reputation for reliability and still get a lemon), it's what DTV thinks. If THEY believe the system is stable, they're going to not do these one-off fixes. Individuals may disagree - that's fine. And like I said - I'm sorry people are having these problems. People can jump on me all they want, it won't change anything, but if it makes you feel better, go ahead.

One final point, I'm betting, based partly on what Earl said, that there's ALOT of these units out there. At some point DTV is going to make a calculation - no matter what they do they won't satisfy every single customer, but they'll hit a point where they'll decide, overall, based on how the system is performing throughout their customer base, that it's pretty stable.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

My point was I don't thing the R15 is at the point where I would even remotely consider it stable. The issues people are having are basically the same, that being lockups, frozen screens, etc, forcing a reset. There are enough people posting, with the exact same problems, that I would say there is a problem.

I have seen many a person on this forum who have had NO problems, telling others how wonderful their R15 is, only to, a few weeks later, start posting about lockups, black screens, resets and class action lawsuits.

Just because you are OK now, does not mean you will be OK in a few weeks.

Mine was fine for about a month and then the daily resets started. 

I prefer the R15 interface, however, under no circumstances should I have to live with resetting a DVR daily. There is nothing revolutionary about the R15 that would excuse the poor performance. It's got a nice UI, but it is not breaking brand new ground where these issue can be excused.

Directv seems to be flying by the seat of their pants, ie releasing the R15 in the shape it was in and then releasing the HR20 without OTA (apologize all you want but there is no excuse for OTA not to be ready upon release, especially when it is the ONLY option for many customers).

Between this product and HD-Lite, Directv is in danger of going extinct in my house.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MercurialIN said:


> Isn't that what they said about the Edsel? And the Titanic?


Both the Edsel and the Titanic were basically decent designs with companies behind them that were poorly guided.

Hmmm, maybe there is a relationship.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Donnie Byrd said:


> Noah's Ark was built by amateurs


I'm inclined to think that the ark was conceived by someone other than Noah.


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

The problem is, we the public give software developers a mulligan time and time again, but if the R15 was our car our lawn mower our coffe maker, it would be returned in a day..

At least when they screw up itunes they sent out 5 revisions in 2 weeks, but DTV seems to take 5 weeks to fix problems that create even more problems..


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> No they said the Titanic was unsinkable not stable. Big difference there. Edsel well to be honest I have no idea what they said about it.


For all it's faults the R15 is also unsinkable.....really! Try it! Just unplug it first....


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## nneptune (Mar 30, 2006)

harsh said:


> I'm inclined to think that the ark was conceived by someone other than Noah.


The Directv software team?


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> For all it's faults the R15 is also unsinkable.....really! Try it! Just unplug it first....


that's the problem you got to unplug it first, .:bang that might be the reason all my electricity went out.:lol:


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