# 921 - L2.72 Release Discussion.



## leemathre

New software coming down right now. Hope it is not just a fix for DST.


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## leemathre

This was a long download. Took over 30 minutes.


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## junianby

I got the update. Wonder what the updates are?


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## Jason Kragt

Well, for one thing, there is an annoying "TV Guide" logo on the program guide now.


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## RocketNJ

Ahh, that's why it took so long? The logo must be a bmp file <G>

Seriously, let's hope this upgrade does not make the 921 worse.


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## DonLandis

Trick or Treat? anyone? Charlie is asking. Either sub to Everything or your 921 will play tricks on you! 

Time for more sadistic games with Dish Network super duper linux hacks.


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## boylehome

Seems like frame by frame is better now.


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## Allen Noland

This is mainly a DST fix, but there are a few improvements relating to frame advance and manual and weekly timers. 

That is all I will say about it.


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## Bradtothebone

If they made ANY improvements in either of those two areas, it will be welcome!

Brad


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## Chris Blount

We just heard from Dish and they classify it as a "standard maintenance fix".


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

Allen Noland said:


> This is mainly a DST fix, but there are a few improvements relating to frame advance and manual and weekly timers.
> 
> That is all I will say about it.


 :lol: What a politically-neutral statement to make.


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## Allen Noland

Like title says. Let talk about the release. The "Official" word from E* is pretty light, so post your observations here.


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## ebaltz

The frame advance does seem to be better.


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## ebaltz

The frame advance does appear to be better in my initial testing.


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## Ken Green

Are these menu items new, or have they always been there?
Menu
-System Setup (6)
-Diagnostic Test (5)
--Hard Drive
--Teach Remote

Menu
-Staying in Touch (2)
--Dish Notes*
--Dish Messages*
--email*

*grayed-out


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## BobMurdoch

DonLandis said:


> Trick or Treat? anyone? Charlie is asking. Either sub to Everything or your 921 will play tricks on you!
> 
> Time for more sadistic games with Dish Network super duper linux hacks.


I sub to the everything pak (as well as several other channels that raise my bill to $200 a month)

Don't fret... I get just as many bugs as you guys....


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## BobMurdoch

Chris Blount said:


> We just heard from Dish and they classify it as a "standard maintenance fix".


Which means that we will fix 3 bugs and create 5 new ones.....


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## BobMurdoch

They've all been there for a few release now..... The Teach Remote Option was added a release or two ago. I tried to get it to work with my learning remote and it wouldn't though.


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## elmc

I used the teach remote option to teach my philips pronto remote, it worked fine. (that was a year ago though)


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## Larry

I noticed that after pressing "stop" after/during viewing of a protected recording, you are no longer stuck in "resume".


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## tnsprin

Was the TV guide logo in the guide on the 921 before?


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## Ken Green

tnsprin said:


> Was the TV guide logo in the guide on the 921 before?


nope, it's new with 2.72


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## Notorious

Man I am sooooo Glad this Update came out. I mean after sooo many isues DISH network HAS FINALLY gotten their act together and fixed the missing TV Guide logo. I mean I paid $500 plus for my 921 and No TV guide Logo! That was a ripoff! But now that the TV Guide logo is in place I have the pleasure to sit there and watch it when my 921 freezes in the guide menu. That just makes it sooo much better! Thank you DISH NETWORK...you guys ROCK!


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## tnsprin

1) TV guide logo in guide
2) Fixed extra yellow border around search matches (1 fix)
Any other confirmed fixes?


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## Benny

:lol:


Notorious said:


> Man I am sooooo Glad this Update came out. I mean after sooo many isues DISH network HAS FINALLY gotten their act together and fixed the missing TV Guide logo. I mean I paid $500 plus for my 921 and No TV guide Logo! That was a ripoff! But now that the TV Guide logo is in place I have the pleasure to sit there and watch it when my 921 freezes in the guide menu. That just makes it sooo much better! Thank you DISH NETWORK...you guys ROCK!


Yea that made my day..


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## David_Levin

More new stuff:
When you edit Start/End times, the event duration now updates instantaneously.
The time of day is also now available on this edit screen.


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## Geoff Goodfellow

pixilation and audio dropout is still alive and well in L272 -- just had an instance while watching a show that was recorded couple hours ago of a DISH SD channel. i even cold booted my 921 and watched L272 get installed before the recording. bummin'


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## AnubisPrime

No problems noted yet. I am also bummed to hear that the video pix./audio dropout bug is still alive. It has been an intermittent problem with me. Bearable, but annoying none the less.

I'm waiting to see if the "timer fires on the wrong day" bug has been eliminated.

--Dom


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## tnsprin

tnsprin said:


> ...
> 2) Fixed extra yellow border around search matches (1 fix)
> ...


HM. A sometimes working fix? Last night was consistently working on my HECD 921. I tried it on my other 921 (HEED) and it wasn't fixed. Went back and confirmed it was working on my HECD.

This morning, and after the overnight BOOT, its not working on either machine. Very strange.


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## Michael P

The only bug I experienced with 2.72 so far is a weird stuck aspect ratio ("normal" 4X3 was stretched into 16x9 on all channels via the SD output with the 4X3 #2 setting).

A front panel reboot fixed the problem.

Anyone else notice the time-chage fix? If you scroll out past the time change the time reads 3:00 AM STD. Very cool. This makes the possibility of timers firing at the wrong time due to the time change less likely.


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## boylehome

There is less jiggle when it stops at the end SKIP points, forward and backwards.

The extra yellow border in the search history is still present.

The 921's still fails to auto-reboot when I have active Auto-Tune Mon.-Fri. timers set. 
The picture still fills the whole background rather than show in the picture window after erasing a DVR event. (so noted in DVR921 Bug Report Forum)


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## elmc

Mine just froze while watching a HD recording from HBOHD from last week. I was watching it using the SD output on my tv in my bedroom, then for seemingly no reason it switched on its own back to the HD output. When I pushed the sd/hd button to switch it back, I was in the DVR menu and it was frozen - nothing worked. A reset fixed it. I have never had this happen before. Nothing was recording.


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## Jerry Ray

Since 272, I appear to be receiving increased signal stength on all the OTA channels I receive (Dothan, AL DMA).


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## Cyclone

Does anyone still think that we will get Dish Home on the 921 by the end of the year?

I do not


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## Geoff Goodfellow

Does anyone still think that we will get the Dish 921 fully working in our Homes by the end of the year?

I do not


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## McSporfut

Does anyone think that Dish will be in my home by the end of the year

I do not


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## KKlare

With L272LECD I recorded 2 hours of HD with several hours still left.
I lost ~38 SD movies (trying to add 24 more of the IMDB top 250--about 1/2 way through) and many SD shows.
I had a 124 minute recording but when played it was just blank and did not respond to controls, cancel, stop, FF, etc. I powered it off with the SD outputs up because I was going to DVD+RW them. The machine rebooted and I have nothing -- fully empty. Still have my timers and favorites.
I'm the fool, I should know better -- this looks like the olden days.

Has anyone found anything that can bring them back???
-Ken


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## ibglowin

Woke up to a "new first" bug in one of my 921's.

It looks like they were trying to fix the stuck aspect ratio bug and screwed it up even worse. The picture on my 921 was squished into 3:3! Hitting the aspect key on the remote was useless. Did a power button reboot and it went back to normal. I think it was better getting stuck in wide screen mode.


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## gregmisc

Geoff Goodfellow said:


> Does anyone still think that we will get the Dish 921 fully working in our Homes by the end of the year?
> 
> I do not


Now that was funny! :lol:


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## Bradtothebone

I've got you all beat. My 921 was FRIED by L272.

Friday night I went into the menu under Software Update, and it said "Software download successful - turn receiver off to activate," or something such. So I did. Saturday night, tried to turn on the receiver, nothing. It was still outputting a "picture," though - alternating between the "DISH HDTV medallion" and a screen that said something like "Receiver is in standby - now booting." Never did boot, and I was never able to turn it on.

I tried two unplug reboots, still nothing. I guess it's time to call Dish and spend the rest of the day on the phone with them.

Are we having fun yet?

Brad


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## guruka

Well for the first time the time switch went perfectly. All timers are still correct and all timers set before the time change are firing correctly. Very nice to see that this was fixed correctly.

.....G


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## jergenf

kdg454 said:


> Are these menu items new, or have they always been there?
> Menu
> -System Setup (6)
> -Diagnostic Test (5)
> --Hard Drive
> --Teach Remote
> 
> Menu
> -Staying in Touch (2)
> --Dish Notes*
> --Dish Messages*
> --email*
> 
> *grayed-out


Yes they're was there before L272 & L270


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## Skates

from Guruka:



> Well for the first time the time switch went perfectly.


Not so fast. My regular timer for 11:30pm Saturday night recorded the program at 12:30am. I know this for sure because I was watching the correct program at 11:30pm on another TV in the house.


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## guruka

Skates said:


> Not so fast. My regular timer for 11:30pm Saturday night recorded the program at 12:30am. I know this for sure because I was watching the correct program at 11:30pm on another TV in the house.


Sorry to hear you had a problem. Yeah, I had no timers set between 11 PM Saturday and 7 AM Sunday and my 7 AM timer on Sunday morning fired at the correct time. I've never tried setting a timer that spans the time change (2AM?).... so, for me it worked fine this time around whereas last year all the Sunday timers were screwed and I had to re-create them, so this is a major improvement.

.....G


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## Skates

Here's another one - my timer that was set from 10pm to 12:15am Saturday night - and therefore should not have been affected by the time change - also got 'confused' and recorded an extra hour.

Minor glitches...

This is why I normally set no timers anywhere near the time change, but in this case I was forced to because it was the only time the movie was on.


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## BobMurdoch

1. The box screwed up and recorded SNL off of NBC-W an hour late.
2. The Stretch mode appears screwed up again. Score Crawl at bottom of Fox chopped in half again. Went into preferences menu to adjust picture up.... menu moves up BUT picture remains unaffected in stretch mode (ie. still chopping off the edges)
3. Now I'm also getting the wrong program labels again. My ABC Family timer of Smallville says 7th Heaven.


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## ocnier

942 = solid performer with some room for improvement, but overall a great product.

921 = boat anchor.



You decide which has more value.


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## Gut

Well I set Rome to record last night on HBO at 8pm CST and the timer didnt fire until 9pm CST. I went to the guide about 7pm and told it to record the show, so it wasnt a previous timer I had set up prior to L2.72 or before the time change.


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## KKlare

I lost West Wing (Sun 7PM MST) without an lingering entry in the timers list as is usual if something happers. This was after losing all recordings the prior night and getting 2 recording earlier on Sunday. Maybe they will repeat at Xmas but that breaks the story continuity.
-Ken


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## Michael P

kdg454 said:


> Are these menu items new, or have they always been there?
> Menu
> -System Setup (6)
> -Diagnostic Test (5)
> --Hard Drive
> --Teach Remote
> 
> Menu
> -Staying in Touch (2)
> --Dish Notes*
> --Dish Messages*
> --email*
> 
> *grayed-out


The only new menu item I found was the "inactivity" shutdown.


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## boylehome

I've noticed this since L272. If I set either of my 921's into the 720p there is increased noise in motion in the video. Both 921's are outputting component signals. Before L272, the 720p and 1080i performed so similarly that I couldn't notice any difference.


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## Eagles

An old bug is back. One that for me is a real pain in the a$$ because of the way I use the 921 on my "Sports Sunday". The old "ERROR 312". I was surprised nobody picked up on this, but now I know why. It's back with a twist which probably doesn't affect many users. This is the bug which doesn't allow you to view anything else after you start a manual OTA recording. The ERROR 312 message is "Your Request Can Only Be Carried Out In Live Mode. Stop Recording And Switch To Live Mode Now". Yes-No-Cancel. It does not even allow you to watch a pre recorded DVR event until you cancel the recording. The twist is this:The bug only presents itself when I'm viewing my NON-DMA OTA's. My Dish locals are out of DC. My OTA's out of Baltimore and Salisbury Maryland are much more reliable and are the mainstay of my OTA viewing and recording. Anyone else having this problem. I'll post a bug report when I get a couple of free minutes.


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## Sundance

Jason Kragt said:


> Well, for one thing, there is an annoying "TV Guide" logo on the program guide now.


What TV Guide? Do you mean the EPG? Are you getting a EPG without subing to locals on your 921?


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## Ken Green

Sundance said:


> What TV Guide? Do you mean the EPG? Are you getting a EPG without subing to locals on your 921?


The TV Guide logo now shows up on the EPG below the Dish logo.
I don't know if you have to sub to Dish locals to get the EPG.


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## gboot

I've noticed a new problem with the 272 release, when in the guide and scrolling up or down, when you first press the scroll button there is more of a delay than in the past. IF you hold the buttton down, once past the first channel the remaining channels scroll by normally.


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## gsartori

Eagles said:


> An old bug is back.
> The twist is this:The bug only presents itself when I'm viewing my NON-DMA OTA's. My Dish locals are out of DC.


I got it also with regular satellite channels. :-( when do they stop to mess around?


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## KKlare

I get the "Can Only Be Carried Out In Live Mode" bug most of the time when I start a manual record OTA/Sat and another recording is in progress. You should be able to switch to a stored recording or even the other new one but it will not let you, you have to sit through to the end of the manual record. Try to get a timer set up before the next commercial, if any. It started before L272.
-Ken


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## Michael P

The aspect ratio freeze is back with a vengance. I use the 921 with a SD set via the s-video jack. I need to change the aspect ratio setting when watching some of my OTA stations.

When 272 first loaded all my channels were stuck in letterbox mode, even the SD satellite channels (this is using the 4X3 #2 mode). In the past letterbox would not be an option in this mode. A soft roboot fixed the problem. However while watching MNF my ABC affilliate switched from true HD to stretch mode. After that happened my 921 was again stuck in letterbox on all channels. I had to do several cold reboots and even though for a moment that the 921 died since no lights were lit, I only saw the HDTV medallion then nothing but a blank screen. It turned out to be stuck in HD mode (my fault for going there in an attempt to unfreeze the aspect ratio). Everything is ok now after a long perion of blank screen, the remote finally started working again - the power light finally came back on.


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## Jim Parker

The frame reverse is still not working right for me. The advance is fine, but the reverse jumps back a half dozen or so frames.


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## joebird

Maybe I've lowered my expectations, but the frame advance now works fine (possibly even better than how it was before they broke it). I've not played with the reverse too much, yet.


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## tnsprin

tnsprin said:


> HM. A sometimes working fix? Last night was consistently working on my HECD 921. I tried it on my other 921 (HEED) and it wasn't fixed. Went back and confirmed it was working on my HECD.
> 
> This morning, and after the overnight BOOT, its not working on either machine. Very strange.


I think I figured out part of what is happening, although I am not sure this isn't what always happened.

If you do a search and get multiple hits, and select one of the items on the lower part of the screen (whether you then cancel or select the item for view or record) , THEN the next search no longer shows an extra yellow box.


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## tnsprin

leemathre said:


> This was a long download. Took over 30 minutes.


average download is 45 minutes.


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## johnrboren

For some odd reason, this latest 2.72 decided to wipe out a number of recorded shows, but not all of them. It kept shows that I had from about a month ago back. The device froze, and upon reboot, the shows were wiped out.

Then, I noticed that the amount of available time to record was down to about 1+ hours of HD - even though I had only about 2 hours of HD recorded. I tried rebooting - that didn't give back any space...so, I deleted one of the shows - which then freed up over 21hours of HD or about 148 hours of SD.

I hope they also fixed the timers for Friday and Saturday shows. The last 3-4 weeks, friday shows were taped on Thursdays, Saturday shows on Fridays.

Guess we'll see this week.


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## Mike123abc

I noticed the frame advance fixed. 

There is a new bug, when you pick a DVR event you can no longer left arrow over to the list of programs in the multievent without first down arrowing.


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## Mike123abc

New bug with multi events. If you press DVR button on remote, pick a multi event you cannot left arrow over the the event list to pick a program without first arrowing down one notch then you can left arrow over.


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## johnrboren

For some odd reason, this latest 2.72 decided to wipe out a number of recorded shows, but not all of them. It kept shows that I had from about a month ago back. The device froze, and upon reboot, the shows were wiped out.

Then, I noticed that the amount of available time to record was down to about 1+ hours of HD - even though I had only about 2 hours of HD recorded. I tried rebooting - that didn't give back any space...so, I deleted one of the shows - which then freed up over 21hours of HD or about 148 hours of SD.

I hope they also fixed the timers for Friday and Saturday shows. The last 3-4 weeks, friday shows were taped on Thursdays, Saturday shows on Fridays.

Guess we'll see this week.


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## Ken Green

Anyone else notice we have two threads running about the same topics with the same posts?
I feel like a 921 having to read everything twice!
(L2.72 Release Discussion & L2.72 Now Spooling for 921)


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## Ron Barry

Merged the threads.


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## ntexasdude

I have L272. Frame advance forward and reverse is much smoother. Haven't had a stuck aspect ratio yet. No issues with timers or manual record.

Last night however I got a scare. I tried to switch to ESPN HD and the screen went blank. The header showed the correct channel but no video. Changed to various other channels - same thing - correct header and no video. Did a power cord reboot and it took _forever_, like 15 minutes for it to come back up. I thought it was fried but eventually it booted and everything went back to normal.

I'm one of those lucky people who has had hardly any issues at all. Last night I thought my luck had run out but all is well.


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## kckucera

guruka said:


> Well for the first time the time switch went perfectly. All timers are still correct and all timers set before the time change are firing correctly. Very nice to see that this was fixed correctly.
> 
> .....G


Several but not all my timers are firing an hour early, the info bar shows correct time but I think the timers are still on Mountain Daylight time. Have just killed and replaced all my timers, hope they work tonight.
Ken


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## boylehome

CC seems much more responsive than with the previous versions. Rather CC lagging 5 seconds, it is about the same time as the words spoken. I have not paid much attention to live broadcasts and I see that some broadcasters do not use the CC consistantly when transmitting HD programming.


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## Lawood

My biggest complaint is not being able to out of HD mode. In fact it is right down irratating. I use to be able to go into MENU 6/9 and set it to 480i. Oh yes I still can do that, but the picture is absolutely terrible looks like crop and zoom (see boylehomes entry on Oct 12th 06:57 in thread Next release for 921?). A lot of time because of hangs and nothing happens when you press a button on the remote it is no more then a finger exercise( you can take that anyway you like ). 
I really don't ever expect to see these problems fixed. We get a nice TV Guide logo, but problems that we users are experiencing in most cases are ignored. 
Right know my options are open as whether or not I stay with Dish. It depends on what happens in the future. 
Right now I am very unhappy with Dish in respect to the 921. I would almost guarantee that the level of support has been scaled way back.


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## robkunz

Sometimes during an OTA HD show the picture will freeze or pixelate. Usually it will return to normal but sometimes it will get stuck there. I have to change the channel to another station and then back to get the show back. The signal strenth is typically 100 or higher but sometimes drops to 0. Sometimes a show will go without a hitch but sometimes the same show (ie same night and time slot) will have many issues even during clear weather.

Any ideas why the signal drops out sometimes but not others during the same time slot? Also, why can't the 921 get the program back on screen every time after the signal strength returns? I should not have to switch channels to "unfreeze" it.

Thanks!


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## boylehome

robkunz said:


> Sometimes during an OTA HD show the picture will freeze or pixelate. Usually it will return to normal but sometimes it will get stuck there. I have to change the channel to another station and then back to get the show back. The signal strenth is typically 100 or higher but sometimes drops to 0. Sometimes a show will go without a hitch but sometimes the same show (ie same night and time slot) will have many issues even during clear weather.
> 
> Any ideas why the signal drops out sometimes but not others during the same time slot? Also, why can't the 921 get the program back on screen every time after the signal strength returns? I should not have to switch channels to "unfreeze" it.
> 
> Thanks!


Not knowing what type of OTA antenna you're using for reception and not knowing the area/terrain where you live respective to the channel or channels you are having trouble with, the best answer that I can give is, "Multipath" which is an echo signal from the same transmission that is bouncing off of something nearby thus canceling the signal. Causes are indoor antennas, attic antennas, or Omni directional antennas. Sometimes amplification of a signal can introduce noise that causes what you are describing. The solution is to have a good directional antenna aimed at the station that you experience the problems with. Lastly, there may be a simple connection problem or water in a connection. Hope this helps.


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## harsh

Michael P said:


> The only new menu item I found was the "inactivity" shutdown.


That showed up quite a ways back (2.16?). There's a thread here somewhere here about not being able to wake up


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## harsh

Jim Parker said:


> The frame reverse is still not working right for me. The advance is fine, but the reverse jumps back a half dozen or so frames.


Isn't that the way it has always been? This is a result of using MPEG2 compression and I think you'll find that most devices jump from I-frame to I-frame when going backwards.


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## AVJohnnie

After using L272 for a few days now, I can honestly say that I cannot discern anything that it has done to improve what we already had with the previous L270.:raspberry Still have the same stuck aspect and HD/SD lockup issues :down: - Still have malfunctioning timers firing on the wrong days or not at all :down: &#8230; So what exactly was the point of the update?:scratch: If it was only about the DST switchover messing up timers (as happened in pervious years), then (for me at least) L272 was a wasted effort, because I've stopped setting timers (since they are untrustworthy anyway)&#8230;:nono2:


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## tnsprin

AVJohnnie said:


> After using L272 for a few days now, I can honestly say that I cannot discern anything that it has done to ..:


But the TV guide logo is fixed


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## AVJohnnie

tnsprin said:


> But the TV guide logo is fixed


Oh, I was having so much fun finding all the other enhancements that I just plain forgot about the logo&#8230; the TV Guide Logo, The all new and shining beacon of light leading us on our quest as we traverse the perils of the program guide. Yes the TV Guide Logo -- which will undoubtedly, and single handedly, bring about an ultimate, and uncompromising, and everlasting world peace!:rolling:


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## Skates

Ever since the update, my guide doesn't load properly. I get a lot of "No Info Available" screens or it only contains info for two days instead of eight. A soft reboot seems to fix it, but every morning I get the same thing.


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## Allen Noland

The timer's firing on the wrong day might be helped by putting the unit into standby rather than letting the inactivity mode kick in.


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## hoehemi1

For me the biggest difference in L2.72 is that when I leave the unit in SD mode overnight I can switch back to HD mode in the morning. So far I did not have to reboot unlike in the past. This was very annoying to me as I recorded in SD mode to my pocket DVR overnight but then my kids couldn't watch anything in the morning as my TV is connected via DVI and doesn't show pictures in SD mode.

On the other hand I lost two timers (from about 6) that fired on the wrong day. They looked fine in edit mode but they just didn't kick in. First time that happened to me.


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## Larry Caldwell

Skates said:


> Ever since the update, my guide doesn't load properly. I get a lot of "No Info Available" screens or it only contains info for two days instead of eight. A soft reboot seems to fix it, but every morning I get the same thing.


I just saw that for the first time last night. The program guide only went 2 hours into the future, and the rest was "no information".

Like the pixellation bug, I'm not sure we can blame the receiver. I suspect the audio dropouts and pixellation, which only seem to occur on SD programming, are an artifact of stretching the available bandwidth too far. Back in the '90s I was using a 4000 receiver that would just black out when the bitrate got too low, even with plenty of signal strength.

The program guide problem corrected itself with no action on my part at all, so I suspect it was an error on the uplink side.


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## socceteer

I have been noticing that channel information when you change channels or display the channel you are on, seams to loose part of the information, such as the time is missing, the data is missing, or the channel is incorrect,...Is anyone experiencing this also...?


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## ebaltz

i have seen it


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## kckucera

socceteer said:


> I have been noticing that channel information when you change channels or display the channel you are on, seams to loose part of the information, such as the time is missing, the data is missing, or the channel is incorrect,...Is anyone experiencing this also...?


Generally I see the time missing.


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## hortonjr

On my older 921, the only thing I noticed was the shiny new TV Guide logo. On my newer 921, my reboot times seem to be faster (about 4 minutes, down from 7), but the audio dropout (the first few seconds of a program after returning from a commercial) seems to always happen now rather than sometimes happening. Since neither of these things happened on the other box I am hesitant to attribute them to the new software but maybe instead to good and bad luck on my part 

Bob


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## socceteer

kckucera said:


> Generally I see the time missing.


It soulds like we should report this as a bug. I will do that


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## rdopso

boylehome said:


> I've noticed this since L272. If I set either of my 921's into the 720p there is increased noise in motion in the video. Both 921's are outputting component signals. Before L272, the 720p and 1080i performed so similarly that I couldn't notice any difference.


I was under the impression that component video can only output 720p and that HDMI video was required for 1080i. Can someone out there confirm or correct this for me?


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## Sharper

On the 921, either the DVI or component outputs can be used to output 720p or 1080i.

The 921 doesn't have an HDMI port, although you can use an adapter, since the video portion is essentially the same.

Perhaps this is a limitation of your TV's inputs?


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## ntexasdude

rdopso said:


> I was under the impression that component video can only output 720p and that HDMI video was required for 1080i. Can someone out there confirm or correct this for me?


My TV doesn't support 720P, only 480 and 1080i. Nor does it have a DVI input. I output the 921 at 1080i through component to TV.


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## rdopso

Sharper said:


> On the 921, either the DVI or component outputs can be used to output 720p or 1080i.
> 
> The 921 doesn't have an HDMI port, although you can use an adapter, since the video portion is essentially the same.
> 
> Perhaps this is a limitation of your TV's inputs?


Just checked my owners manual, and as you suggest, my 50-in Panasonic LCD does not support 1080i via component video but does via HDMI; I have my 921 connected directly to the TV from my 921 via a DVI-HDMI cable which works fine. Audio is routed from the 921 through my Denon 3803. I understand the new Denon 3806 receiver has HDMI/DVI inputs/outputs and can up-convert analog, SVHS, and component video to HDMI; I am lusting after this nice piece of electronics. By the way, I have tried both component and HDMI on my Panasonic LCD and the HDMI is diffinately better in terms of picture quality, as one would expect.


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## boylehome

rdopso said:


> Just checked my owners manual, and as you suggest, my 50-in Panasonic LCD does not support 1080i via component video but does via HDMI; I have my 921 connected directly to the TV from my 921 via a DVI-HDMI cable which works fine. Audio is routed from the 921 through my Denon 3803. I understand the new Denon 3806 receiver has HDMI/DVI inputs/outputs and can up-convert analog, SVHS, and component video to HDMI; I am lusting after this nice piece of electronics. By the way, I have tried both component and HDMI on my Panasonic LCD and the HDMI is diffinately better in terms of picture quality, as one would expect.


My Panasonic does support the 1080i on component but the manual says that the picture is not as good as 720p or 480p. Pretty interesting in that I'm getting the best picture quality with the 921 set to 1080i.


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## ebaltz

My pany works best in 720p over DVI.


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## Redster

The aspect bug is getting kinda old. I cant use SD function at all and HD has black bars now on all channels. I can get around possible burnout by keeping it on zoom but I lose part of the picture. I have tried all settings from 1080i (my normal) to 480p and 480i with 16x9 (normal) then 4x3 (1) and 4x3 (2). Both hard and soft reboots dont resolve.


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## rdopso

Was watching a DVR recorded OTA HD program from our local Tucson Fox station and as is common with our Tucson OTAs the aspect ratio was shifting back and forth between 16:9 and 4:3 as the program went into most commercials and back to the network program (seems to be ****ing into SD or maybe just 4:3 for many of the commercials). On one of these OTA shifts the aspect ration froze in 4:3. I have had a few stuck aspect ratio situations with previous software upgrades, but never under these specific circumstances. Anyone else have this happen? 

I'm also very annoyed with the huge jump in sound volume while watching OTA programs when, apparently, either the local TV station or the network shifts into and out of ProLogic sound for commercials (I suspect it's the local station digital feed). Some have posted on forums that local stations must manually temporarliy cut of the network HD feed to them in order to run local non-HD commercials. It's really very annoying to have the volume jump ten decibles with every commercial. Is this a common OTA issue, and is there anything one can do about it?


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## jergenf

rdopso said:


> Was watching a DVR recorded OTA HD program from our local Tucson Fox station and as is common with our Tucson OTAs the aspect ratio was shifting back and forth between 16:9 and 4:3 as the program went into most commercials and back to the network program (seems to be shirting into SD or maybe just 4:3 for many of the commercials). On one of these OTA shifts the aspect ration froze in 4:3. I have had a few stuck aspect ratio situations with previous software upgrades, but never under these specific circumstances. Anyone else have this happen?


In the case with Fox it's sending 720p all the time which is always (same would be true for 1080i) in widescreen. The side bars that you're seeing is provided by the station and not your receiver. You may even notice the FOX logo in the side bar region from time to time (proof that the station is doing it).

During the times when the station is displaying SD content it upconverts to 720p and you may notice that standard quality program looks better than most other channels. What you're actually seeing is standard at studio quality which is around 720x480 and since it up-converted to 1280x720 it retains all the original quality and makes the SD so pristine.

You can verify that 720p is being displayed (even during SD programs) by recording a program on that channel. When you later decide to delete the program note the time remaining both before and after you delete it. Typically an hour long program in 720p regains about 30 mins of HD time. If it was really 480p then an hour program would restore about 10 mins of HD time. With 1080i programs it's usually 1 to 1. Note: it is possible that 720p could be shot at 60 frames per sec (example some sport events) then it would be closer to 1 to 1 simular to 1080i.

Bottom line HD is always 16:9 if you see any other aspect ratio then the station is providing side bars or letter box or both.

If you have the 921 and experience it being stuck in an aspect ratio on accations, well that's another issue, that should be fixed (hopefully) in a future software release. Presently only a reboot fixes it.


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## JPC

rdopso said:


> By the way, I have tried both component and HDMI on my Panasonic LCD and the HDMI is diffinately better in terms of picture quality, as one would expect.


What you're seeing is a difference in the quality of D/A conversion. Component outputs are analog. HDMI (and DVI) are digital. By feeding your TV a digital input via HDMI, you're bypassing the D/A converters in the 921 and are allowing your TV to perform the conversion. Your picture could just as easily look worse using an HDMI input if its converters weren't as good as the 921's. HDMI does allow greater bandwidth than analog cable, but HDTV signals only use about half of it so it's really inconsequential.

HDMI is not necessarily a good thing and some conspiracy theorists have argued that the reason for its implemention is so the "industry" can limit our access to the analog signal, thus making it more difficult to record or distribute.

HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) was developed to be the content protection for the HDMI format and is strongly supported by FOX, Universal, DirecTV and Echostar as well as the major electronics manufacturers.

Interesting, huh?


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## jergenf

JPC said:


> HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) was developed to be the content protection for the HDMI format and is strongly supported by FOX, Universal, DirecTV and Echostar *as well as the major electronics manufacturers*.
> 
> Interesting, huh?


Next year when HD-DVD and BluRay arrive they will only support HDCP via HDMI or DVI outputs. If you don't have a monitor that can handle HDCP you're out of luck. If the players (HD-DVD/BluRay) have component output then it will be limited to 480i/p. They're not taking any chances of someone viewing or possibly copying at HD quality from either the component or DVI (without HDCP being enabled).

Be aware of your equipment's capabilities before you buy one of these players.


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## rdopso

JPC said:


> What you're seeing is a difference in the quality of D/A conversion. Component outputs are analog. HDMI (and DVI) are digital. By feeding your TV a digital input via HDMI, you're bypassing the D/A converters in the 921 and are allowing your TV to perform the conversion. Your picture could just as easily look worse using an HDMI input if its converters weren't as good as the 921's. HDMI does allow greater bandwidth than analog cable, but HDTV signals only use about half of it so it's really inconsequential.
> 
> HDMI is not necessarily a good thing and some conspiracy theorists have argued that the reason for its implemention is so the "industry" can limit our access to the analog signal, thus making it more difficult to record or distribute.
> 
> HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) was developed to be the content protection for the HDMI format and is strongly supported by FOX, Universal, DirecTV and Echostar as well as the major electronics manufacturers.
> 
> Interesting, huh?


That could be part of the difference I see between component and HDMI on my Panasonic LCD, but I believe the main difference in my case was that component video only allowed 720p HD on my Panasonic (actually could get 1080i but as Panasonic stated in the manual, picture quality at 1080i with component video input would be better at 720p and it was) Using HDMI input with the Panasonic allows full 1080i HD resolution with the expected higher quality picture. Not sure why the Panasonic has this strange setup where component input gives a poor 1080i picture, but it is clearly stated in the owners manual as being that way.

I would have preferred using a component video connection because that would have allowed a single cable connection to the TV from my Denon 3803 receiver through which I route all video components because it up-converts composit and SVHS to component video (the new 3806 up-converts analog to HDMI). Because the Panasonic TV required HDMI input I of course had to run that input directly from my 921 to the TV (using a $129 cable) as well as the second component video cable to handle signals from my DVD and VHS players that are routed through the Denon receiver and up-converted to component output to the TV. What a great excuse to upgrade to the new Denon 3806 AVR -- spend another $1400 to eliminate one cable going to the TV. Anyone wanna buy a near new Denon 3803 AVR?


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

With 2.72 installed for a week or so now I can say that the software is a bit worse than 2.70 in a couple of ways. I used to circumvent around the stuck aspect ratio problem by leaving my 921 in 480p and 4x3 #2 (I have a 40" Sony HD that's 4x3) to watch HD and SD either zoomed in or at the 4x3 ratio. Well, the other day I had the stupid sucker stuck in aspect ratio and the SD channels were stuck in Zoom even though I had them on Normal in the first place. Plus, the timer STILL fires one day early AND the DVR program title is different than the one I recorded! Plus, the DVR menu navigation still freezes if I choose to erase, play, or what not occasionally. So for me, 2.72 still has many of the bugs in 2.70. I hope that they get to the root cause and fix these. The ZSR's are gone I think but these timer errors and freeze-ups are very annoying!


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## KKlare

On the good side of 2.72 what I noticed new: for a protected recording you can go from Resume to Start Over, skipping over the grayed out Erase and not just the other way. Before you had to use cancel button, re-enter the recording, and then Start Over or Unprotect.

Still with me: with rapid pushes especially of Info or just because it feels like it, I get a dark overlay like is used for the background on the Info screen but with no text. Many buttons are locked... . I must power off and back on but that will lose any live buffering, which I cannot get to because of the frozen buttons. I can see the extent of the overlay because I have set minimal overscan and can see "around" Info or Guide on the edges.

Cannot access individual recordings from the mulltiple program list on the DVR list.
Less noticeable is the Stuck Aspect Ratio.
Have not seen a ZSR in ages and hope I never do.
The HDNet 10-minute Test Pattern was not accessible from guide but should be from Search.
BTW, it would be nice if the overscan scale was more reasonable: 10 8 grid 6 4 or so does not count the grid as one of the steps that sure look like it is.

-Ken


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## SummitAdvantageRetailer

KKlare said:


> Still with me: with rapid pushes especially of Info or just because it feels like it, I get a dark overlay like is used for the background on the Info screen but with no text. Many buttons are locked... . I must power off and back on but that will lose any live buffering, which I cannot get to because of the frozen buttons. I can see the extent of the overlay because I have set minimal overscan and can see "around" Info or Guide on the edges.


Same here. I get this still every now and then with 2.72. Another annoying bug on my HECD 921.


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## charanis

I think its the same - my system info says
L272HEED-N

For some reason when I turned on the TV today (the 921 was still on) and pushed guide many of my subscribed channels were RED so I was about to call dish and say that they killed my very expensive package and (being a longtime user) decided to reboot. When I did the full guide (sans red) came back. 

Was there something new tonight? 

After checking this all out I think I see a lot of new features, perhaps I had missed before. Such as the ones mentioned here - slow forward seems to work better (1/15 and 1/4 is back) and I see more options on the preferences: Caller ID popup was disabled and when I clicked on it, it actually works now. There seems to be a lot more games, not that I would ever play them. Internet is a new menu item, but I don't have it. Same with Dish Notes, messaging and email. 
I don't remember Theme being on the recorded event list. 

Anyone's Silver Dish button work?

I had a lot of recent problems with it getting stuck in zoom and the format button not working. maybe that will go away now. 

Jim


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## richardlazar

The new issue I'm having with 2.72 is incorrect guide data. My timers seem to still fire, but they claim to have recorded something 24 hours in advance. I have to view each of my recordings to see what they really are.

In addition, I don't see the red dot in the guide for timers I have set to go off weekly. It does allow me to re-select a one time timer for it. 

What a pain.


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## David_Levin

richardlazar said:


> The new issue I'm having with 2.72 is incorrect guide data. My timers seem to still fire, but they claim to have recorded something 24 hours in advance. I have to view each of my recordings to see what they really are.
> 
> In addition, I don't see the red dot in the guide for timers I have set to go off weekly. It does allow me to re-select a one time timer for it.


That's trouble in the making. I'd delete and recreate the timers. Start with the offending ones, but if that doesn't do it, you might have to delete them all.


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## KKlare

richardlazar said:


> In addition, I don't see the red dot in the guide for timers I have set to go off weekly. It does allow me to re-select a one time timer for it.


Note one reason a red dot will not appear is if you edit the start or end time to not include the whole show. It will be in the timers list but you do not then see it in the quide. This can result in confusion if you cut off the last minute or so to allow another program to start early.

You probably have a different problem. Good luck,
-Ken


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## Redster

Any news on whether there is a beta being tested ? Having to watch all my channels now in zoom mode is annoying to say the least. I didnt have any aspect problems before L272.


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## Larry Caldwell

KKlare said:


> Note one reason a red dot will not appear is if you edit the start or end time to not include the whole show. It will be in the timers list but you do not then see it in the quide. This can result in confusion if you cut off the last minute or so to allow another program to start early.
> 
> -Ken


Thanks for this tip. I have had trouble with nonexistant timers firing. No red dot. When I go to the offending program and click on it, the 921 gives me the timer setup screen. I'll have to check my list of timers to see if I had a half hour timer set for a time slot that was rescheduled to an hour program.


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## boylehome

I have found that if there is a timer with no red dot and I use the guide to create a timer, if both tuners are occupied with the time slots, I'll get the conflict screen showing all three timers. I wonder if having two timers firing for the same thing at slightly times will cause them to negate each other?

I was able to create two timers for the same channel by shortening the time of the first timer. I could only do this on the satellite channels the OTA pops up a conflict screen on the second entry.

The timers fired and recorded. One recording was shorter than the other, as expected.


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