# GENIE LITE coming?



## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

In April of this year, DIRECTV applied for a GENIE LITE trademark.

Will this be a new name for the Genie Mini or will it be a cost-reduced Genie?


Also in April, DIRECTV applied for a trademark on DIRECTV COPILOT. The odd part is that in September 2011, they abandoned a trademark on DIRECTV CO-PILOT.

It strikes me as odd that GenieGO, Genie Mini and Wireless Genie Mini aren't registered.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm hoping it's a Mini 3 tuner version that's compatible with the 5 tuner Genie. 
But that's just wish full thinking.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

DIRECTV CoPilot is the name of a feature in the DIRECTV App for iPad. It's been around a little while. 

I think DIRECTV had other plans for the name, decided to drop it, then changed their mind and used it for something else.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Genie Lite got my attention. But with DirecTV past logic, this could make it anything. Might even be a Genie that glows in the dark.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Go Beavs said:


> DIRECTV CoPilot is the name of a feature in the DIRECTV App for iPad. It's been around a little while.


I would expect that it would need to have broader support than just iDevices.

Maybe they were going to (or will) release a web app that had/has some practical utility. The existing web app is pretty lightweight.

With hundreds of trademarks, it appears to be a full-time job coming up with names.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Drucifer said:


> Might even be a Genie that glows in the dark.


I'm surprised they didn't debut a cost reduced GENIE version prior to the SD cut-off.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Maybe Genie Lite would be essentially the same as the current Genie, and there would also be an improved model with more tuners, 4K support, etc. They'll give away the Lite one for free, and make people pay for the new one. Though you'd think rather than branding one as "Lite" they'd leave it as "Genie" and make the improved one a "Genie Plus" or "Genie Pro" or something like that...

It is also quite possible they applied for the trademark because they're thinking about doing something, so it was done just in case they decide to do it. There are a lot of trademarks that get applied for but never used.

One of the mods on the other site claimed last December or January there was a HR46 and HR54 in development. The people here in the know said they'd never heard of such a thing, but who knows? One would assume the 46 would be a minor rev of the 44, and the 54 be improved somehow. Supporting 4K would be an obvious improvement, going to 8 tuners so it can support more clients would be another.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> I'm surprised they didn't debut a cost reduced GENIE version prior to the SD cut-off.


I'm unclear on exactly what they could to reduce the cost of the Genie below the current cost. Better integration (i.e. fewer individual chips) could save a little money, but they could do that anyway and not even have to change the model number, or call it a "HR44 rev 2"

Going from 5 to 3 tuners as someone suggested will never happen. It would only support a single client (or maybe two if you were willing to be left with a single tuner on the main unit) Plus that would save very little, as all the tuners could easily be placed on a single chip now. No way that tiny savings would be worth the creating such a useless model.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Going from 5 to 3 tuners as someone suggested will never happen. It would only support a single client (or maybe two if you were willing to be left with a single tuner on the main unit) Plus that would save very little, as all the tuners could easily be placed on a single chip now. No way that tiny savings would be worth the creating such a useless model.


 Geesh sorry!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

We need Genie Mega. 8 tuners so that even with three clients in use, you still have 5 dedicated tuners. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> We need Genie Mega. 8 tuners so that even with three clients in use, you still have 5 dedicated tuners.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Or like I said, a small 3 tuner, that we can add to our 5 tuner, and still use swm 8 switchs.

If Directv is trying to get more cost effective, than they need something cheaper than $33,27,21 per month for the less than 3,2,1 room Genie crowd.

Because we all know, directv is just teasing us with this price reduction, just to weasel us into this Paying $6 on the first receiver, making it appear justifiable , especially once March arrives.
I know their game.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Not just their game. I can use my own hardware for my Internet connection, but still have to pay their lease fee.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

All I know is they just released a backlit Genie remote, maybe that's it.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

That very well could be .


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## Kaiser Bob (Aug 17, 2012)

slice1900 said:


> I'm unclear on exactly what they could to reduce the cost of the Genie below the current cost. Better integration (i.e. fewer individual chips) could save a little money, but they could do that anyway and not even have to change the model number, or call it a "HR44 rev 2"
> 
> Going from 5 to 3 tuners as someone suggested will never happen. It would only support a single client (or maybe two if you were willing to be left with a single tuner on the main unit) Plus that would save very little, as all the tuners could easily be placed on a single chip now. No way that tiny savings would be worth the creating such a useless model.


You could build it without a hard drive, that would bring down the cost and provide an option for an HD sans DVR installation but still using the genie platform?



dpeters11 said:


> We need Genie Mega. 8 tuners so that even with three clients in use, you still have 5 dedicated tuners.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Maybe they can do something like that with Dswm?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Kaiser Bob said:


> You could build it without a hard drive, that would bring down the cost and provide an option for an HD sans DVR installation but still using the genie platform?


That's an interesting idea, some customers still don't have DVRs and perhaps aren't interested in them, but using a Genie would allow using clients instead of all receivers, but provide an easy upgrade path.



Kaiser Bob said:


> Maybe they can do something like that with Dswm?


Having more SWM tuners would be helpful, but it hard to see what value there would be in having a Genie with more than 8 tuners. That would really be a niche product.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> That's an interesting idea, some customers still don't have DVRs and perhaps aren't interested in them, but using a Genie would allow using clients instead of all receivers, but provide an easy upgrade path.
> 
> Having more SWM tuners would be helpful, but it hard to see what value there would be in having a Genie with more than 8 tuners. That would really be a niche product.


Did we think there'd be one with 5 - even 5 years ago?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

For the term 'lite' I expect this Genie will either have less tuners or no mini clients.

With DirecTV not taking any HR2x back, I expect it would be a less tuners, replacement for the HR2x, model, as I hope for a no mini client version.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Drucifer said:


> .
> 
> *With DirecTV not taking any HR2x back*, I expect it would be a less tuners, replacement for the HR2x, model, as I hope for a no mini client version.


The only one they are not taking is the HR24-100 all others are still recoverable as of this writing


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## Tom M (Jan 4, 2007)

peds48 said:


> The only one they are not taking is the HR24-100 all others are still recoverable as of this writing


They didn't want my HR20-700 back when I upgraded just a couple of weeks ago.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

Tom M said:


> They didn't want my HR20-700 back when I upgraded just a couple of weeks ago.


Im guessing He means out of the HR24s.
Because they told me to keep my HR23 as well.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Tom M said:


> They didn't want my HR20-700 back when I upgraded just a couple of weeks ago.


Well the HR20s have been been on the non-recover list for at least 2 years! You would think if the HR24s (HR24-100 to be exact) are not longer recoverable, anything below that is considered the same.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

damondlt said:


> Im guessing He means out of the HR24s.


Yes


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> For the term 'lite' I expect this Genie will either have less tuners or no mini clients.
> 
> With DirecTV not taking any HR2x back, I expect it would be a less tuners, replacement for the HR2x, model, as I hope for a no mini client version.


What difference does having minis make? Why would you not want one that can do minis, you can simply not use them if you don't want to.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> What difference does having minis make? Why would you not want one that can do minis, you can simply not use them if you don't want to.


How about a "lite" that has 3 tuners thats dedicated to the minis while leaving the 5 tuners open and available on the main Genie?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dennisj00 said:


> Did we think there'd be one with 5 - even 5 years ago?


The HMC was announced almost ten years ago for delivery on or around EOY 2005.



DIRECTV 2004 Annual Report said:


> Perhaps the most exciting development will be the year-end launch of the DIRECTV Home Media Center to provide whole-house connectivity with all multimedia systems, along with mobility for devices outside the home. Content in a variety of forms - digitally recorded video, photos and music - will be accessible from every networked TV in the house. Through a broadband connection, the DIRECTV Home Media Center will support personal computer connectivity, scheduling of DVR
> recordings from the Internet, photos from wireless phones, video-on-demand and many other features.


Here's the 2005 CES press release:

http://investor.directv.com/default.aspx?SectionId=5cc5ecae-6c48-4521-a1ad-480e593e4835&LanguageId=1&PressReleaseId=6cc8dd88-b3f5-49e5-b8e7-74e9176728b3

Prior to this there was speculation of a six-tuner modular unit.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Wonder if DirecTV will ever make a STB that could also work with a WiFi/Bluetooth keyboard?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Drucifer said:


> Wonder if DirecTV will ever make a STB that could also work with a WiFi/Bluetooth keyboard?


I'll wager they leave that to apps on various devices.


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## bill875 (Jun 15, 2010)

Today DirecTV told me to keep my HR24-500 with a failing hard drive as they are shipping a replacement to me. I just have to send back the access card, which seems odd.


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## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

bill875 said:


> Today DirecTV told me to keep my HR24-500 with a failing hard drive as they are shipping a replacement to me. I just have to send back the access card, which seems odd.


 Other posters have also stated Directv hasn't been asking for there HR24's back either... it's yours now. Every receiver I have leased so far, I haven't had to return since they were obsolete when they failed. Now if my HR44 fails tomorrow I guarantee they will want it back. If you stay with directv longer than 2 years the lease program is actually better than owning, get to keep it anyways.... and usually no up front cost.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

mexican-bum said:


> Other posters have also stated Directv hasn't been asking for there HR24's back either... it's yours now. Every receiver I have leased so far, I haven't had to return since they were obsolete when they failed. Now if my HR44 fails tomorrow I guarantee they will want it back. If you stay with directv longer than 2 years the lease program is actually better than owning, get to keep it anyways.... and usually no up front cost.


But even if they don't want it back, you can't do as much with a leased box they don't want than an owned box.


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## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> But even if they don't want it back, you can't do as much with a leased box they don't want than an owned box.


I have no idea of the actual policy of old lease receivers, all I know is my brother now has two of my old lease HR2* DVR'S under his account as owned. Access card dept made him pay for 2 access cards but that's it. He as a very low tier plan and doesn't carry protection plan so if they fail he is out of luck.... but again that's just my experience with it, not sure of actual policy.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

As far as I know, that is not policy.


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## mexican-bum (Feb 26, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> As far as I know, that is not policy.


You maybe right, we did do them at separate times though, the hr20-700 was probably over 2 years ago, more recently had an hr22-100 replaced with a hr44-700, was a few months ago, and we did it again, my cheap brother even tried to get them to waive the $20 card fee but they absolutely refused. Lol!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

dpeters11 said:


> But even if they don't want it back, you can't do as much with a leased box they don't want than an owned box.


There isn't much you can do with cardless boxes either way whether owned or leased. If it comes down to being able to recover some of the additional cost you paid to get an owned box, reselling is not really all that.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

H44 is the Genie Lite. Yep no internal HDD.


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## tlarseth (Mar 14, 2014)

Drucifer said:


> H44 is the Genie Lite. Yep no internal HDD.


H44 is pretty much a non-recording Genie with a built in 21 volt power inserter, there is an external hard drive for it you can order, it is customer owned once you get it, and technicians are not supposed to support it. The H44 will control Minis like the regular genie now, but no DVR controls without that ESata external HDD. Also, from what I understand the new H44 will require a 3DS or DSWM LNB to work, as it has 12-13 tuners on it, can't remember the exact number, but more minis can receive signal at one time with the two new Genies coming out, according to DirecTv by the end of this year, as the new HR54 will be 4K through the new 99 satellite they launched earlier.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

tlarseth said:


> H44 is pretty much a non-recording Genie with a built in 21 volt power inserter, there is an external hard drive for it you can order, it is customer owned once you get it, and technicians are not supposed to support it. The H44 will control Minis like the regular genie now, but no DVR controls without that ESata external HDD. Also, from what I understand the new H44 will require a 3DS or DSWM LNB to work, as it has 12-13 tuners on it, can't remember the exact number, but more minis can receive signal at one time with the two new Genies coming out, according to DirecTv by the end of this year, as the new HR54 will be 4K through the new 99 satellite they launched earlier.


Where did you get all that info?


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## tlarseth (Mar 14, 2014)

The info came from a Technician in the test market for it.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If you click on the feature comparison table at this link, it says it supports only 3 RVU devices, implying it is basically a HR44 without the hard drive. There are a few other very minor differences like not having a phone jack and the aforementioned built in PI21. It doesn't have 12 or 13 tuners and almost certainly works with any SWM.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YgNkt9UB9O4J:https://docktest.satinstalltraining.com/tech_reference/h44-troubleshooting-tips/


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## mrknowitall526 (Nov 19, 2014)

Will a client connected to the Genie lite be able to access the DVR playlist on the same network as an HR44? If it has no hard drive and no DVR functionality, what's the benefit of this over an H25 box? I don't see one...


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## tlarseth (Mar 14, 2014)

From what I understand without a waiver, the H44 like the HR34 and HR44 you can only have one on your account.


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## tlarseth (Mar 14, 2014)

That cache is from the second model released for testing, they are now on the 5th variant of it. But then he might have gotten the HR54 and H44 confused when giving me stats of it.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

tlarseth said:


> That cache is from the second model released for testing, they are now on the 5th variant of it. But then he might have gotten the HR54 and H44 confused when giving me stats of it.


It would seem really odd to me that they'd change something as major as number of tuners / supported RVU devices and which type of SWM is required in between variants of a product being tested without changing the name. But I don't know how Directv conducts its testing.

It would also mean some amazingly rapid design/test cycles to go from the second to the fifth variant in the 2 1/2 months since the date on that page...


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## usnret (Jan 16, 2009)

Maybe they should worry more about their software rather than new model receivers...


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Never mind a Genie Lite, we heavy users need a Genie Ultra.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

usnret said:


> Maybe they should worry more about their software rather than new model receivers...


Well there's a rumor that must be at least two years old, they were working on a completely new code.

But I suspect most everything is in limbo until there's a yes/no answer to the merger.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> It would seem really odd to me that they'd change something as major as number of tuners / supported RVU devices and which type of SWM is required in between variants of a product being tested without changing the name.


DIRECTV doesn't represent the number of tuners in their model numbers so that portion of you're rationalization doesn't make sense.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

harsh said:


> DIRECTV doesn't represent the number of tuners in their model numbers so that portion of you're rationalization doesn't make sense.


Must agree. As I see no logic in how they select the number in their model ID.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Well actually it does. An HR44 is a H=HD R-DVR fourth generation=4 four room dvr=4

A C41 is a fourth generation compatible device that works in one room. 

And a major point of the genies is they are five tuner. They have always considered tuners to be a differentiation in models. You know this...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tlarseth said:


> The info came from a Technician in the test market for it.


It's quite amazing how far off the mark these reports can be.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm probably going to mess up this "quote", but I recently read a comment where someone said that most new product "leaks" are more like leaky toilets than leaky sinks.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

tlarseth said:


> The info came from a Technician in the test market for it.


Enough said!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> Well actually it does. An HR44 is a H=HD R-DVR fourth generation=4 four room dvr=4
> 
> A C41 is a fourth generation compatible device that works in one room.
> 
> And a major point of the genies is they are five tuner. They have always considered tuners to be a differentiation in models. You know this...


What we know is that the number of tuners isn't part of the model number and if all the Genie boxes can ever support is three clients, that wouldn't surprise me in the least. Most who are clamoring for more Genie tuners are using two or fewer clients and have no inclination to use more in the future. Perhaps they're being unrealistic about DIRECTV allowing multiple Genies or they just don't like the idea of such dependence on a single box.

The Genie model numbering scheme is a new one for DIRECTV. They seem to have reversed the digits in the model numbers. If they were trying to be consistent, the HMC would have been the HR40 and the HR54 would be the HR42. The whole HMC/Genie thing might have been an attempt at taking the significance out of model numbering so DIRECTV can continue to "get away with" marketing different iterations (I hesitate to call them generations as they aren't that disparate) as functionally equivalent.

Going from a 700MHz processor to a 1GHz processor or a larger hard drive is hardly a quantum leap. It is almost demanded as the component marketplace marches forward.


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## damondlt (Feb 27, 2006)

H44 just looks like 5 tuner Non. DVR HD Media Center that serves 4 rooms with Clients.
Now are the clients the same as the Genies, or is there other clients that don't dvr?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> DIRECTV doesn't represent the number of tuners in their model numbers so that portion of you're rationalization doesn't make sense.


You misunderstood my point. The claim made was that there have been five iterations of a beta test product called "H44", the second iteration of which had 5 tuners the 5th iteration of which (coming only 2 1/2 months later!) has 12 tuners. I'm not making any claim about the product name having anything to do with the number of tuners it has.

Personally I think the "technician in a test market" is just seeing how outrageous of a claim he can make and have people believe him


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> Personally I think the "technician in a test market" is just seeing how outrageous of a claim he can make and have people believe him


I will state: he doesn't have a clue.

As all should know by now:

Anyone with a clue isn't going to say squat until the release time.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> I will state: he doesn't have a clue.
> 
> As all should know by now:
> 
> Anyone with a clue isn't going to say squat until the release time.


Though from time to time there are hints...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Though from time to time there are hints...


How's your testing of the KS line coming?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> How's your testing of the KS line coming?


Can't say anything yet, though am looking forward to writing the First Look with a great team. 

Peace,
Tom


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Worlds longest wait for the KS line...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Worlds longest wait for the KS line...


A line so incredibly full featured does take time to develop.


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

Tom Robertson said:


> A line so incredibly full featured does take time to develop.


I realize you're very limited in what can be said, but is there any more information out there on what this "KS" line is or what it is expected/predicted to offer? Is it just a different type of receiver/software or something else?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

rmmccann said:


> I realize you're very limited in what can be said, but is there any more information out there on what this "KS" line is or what it is expected/predicted to offer? Is it just a different type of receiver/software or something else?


The KS series is a long running joke around here about a unit that would include everything all the way up to the Kitchen Sink. :lol: it started back when we used to have a thread dedicated to a wish list and some of the items in the wish list where a little over the top so the mythical KS series was born to take care of that..

Really, I am sure when any new products are ready to come out, there will be a real first look posted here, based on the long history of that happening...


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## rmmccann (Apr 16, 2012)

inkahauts said:


> The KS series is a long running joke around here about a unit that would include everything all the way up to the Kitchen Sink. :lol: it started back when we used to have a thread dedicated to a wish list and some of the items in the wish list where a little over the top so the mythical KS series was born to take care of that..
> 
> Really, I am sure when any new products are ready to come out, there will be a real first look posted here, based on the long history of that happening...


Haha, very nice. Thanks for filling me in. Must've been something well before my first post here.

Yeah, I've noticed the first looks and find them very interesting.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Yeah, there was so much speculation in 2006 and 2007, I mentioned the KS line would replace the HR line someday. Yes, for Kitchen Sink. 

Thanks, Inkahuts for bringing back some fun memories. 

Peace,
Tom

(Looking forward to the KSR-W clients. Kitchen Sink with Roku, wireless. They should be in field testing "soon".)


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yeah, there was so much speculation in 2006 and 2007, I mentioned the KS line would replace the HR line someday. Yes, for Kitchen Sink.
> 
> Thanks, Inkahuts for bringing back some fun memories.
> 
> ...


Just give me a one button PIP toggle and I'll be happy. I couldn't care less about the rest of the added on features.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> The KS series is a long running joke around here about a unit that would include everything all the way up to the Kitchen Sink. :lol: it started back when we used to have a thread dedicated to a wish list and some of the items in the wish list where a little over the top so the mythical KS series was born to take care of that..
> 
> Really, I am sure when any new products are ready to come out, there will be a real first look posted here, based on the long history of that happening...


So much for my fishing trip :blackeye:

I thought I would get much more mileage out of it. :biggrin:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

!rolling


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

veryoldschool said:


> So much for my fishing trip :blackeye:
> 
> I thought I would get much more mileage out of it. :biggrin:


Whisper I can't confirm: SWiM technology is being replaced. The new technology is will be SwAK*, perfect for your fishing trip, camping, RVs, boats, and tailgating.

*Swiss Army Knife technology. 

Peace,
Tom


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Here is the First Look for the H44 Genie Lite: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/217883-first-look-directv-h44-genie-server-external-hdd/


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