# OTA and channels



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

From this thread it seems that Wilmington is having some issues accessing one of the local channels. I'm not sure if this is localized or more widespread, so I thought I'd start a poll and find out.

If you do seem to be having some issues, please note the market you are in and the issue you are having (channel #, etc.)


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

As of 8AM this morning I was not having any OTA problems, and that's how I get all my locals. 

Binghamton, NY DMA.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

right now, 11 am, Bangor, ME DMA my NBC 2-1 and 2-2 are only ones not working.
have verified they work on TV tuner just fine with high strength.
am re-running ota setup to check.

I accidentally clicked ok, I had forgotten to check this channel as it required an antenna rotate. can you please change my vote.

edit: redoing setup/rebooting/clearing settings did not help.

edit 3-10-10: today redoing initial setup for a 7th time brought it back although its signal is extremely low. what used to be 80 is now 30. tv still sees it as 85% strength as always.
what a horrible convoluted setup.


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## dwrats_56 (Apr 21, 2007)

I noticed yesterday that channel 22.1 in the Columbia/Jefferson City MO DMS was no longer available. 

I did a rescan without any luck. I was also PM'd by another DBSTalk member and he noticed that 22.1 disappeared last Wednesday, March 3rd.


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

Boston MA,Portland ME every thing ok so far getting all channels.


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## jilardi2 (Mar 6, 2008)

scranton wilkes-barre PA locals

abc (wnep) goes off for a day now and then, signal is between 93 and 100 all the time execpt when it goes off.

fox (wolf) all were out last night OTA (03/07/2010), and on directv fox was losing signals every couple of minutes, with burps and hiccups.

_also no weather problems clear skies all day and night_

but this is always 100 signal stregnth. OTA

nbc (wbre) is fine all the time

cw is fine all the time

cbs (wyou) is fine all the time

pbs is fine all the time

all my locals are in hd with directv except pbs and cw, ota is mostly a backup for weather.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Metro Atlanta - all the subchannels (that I know of) are in the guide. HR20-700


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## WERA689 (Oct 15, 2006)

I'm in the Atlanta DMA, and I have no issues with my OTA reception here.


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## j2fast (Jul 15, 2007)

Everything is working here, I receive OTA channels from both the Pittsburgh, PA and Steubenville,OH/Wheeling, WV DMA's.


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## Sandy (Apr 23, 2002)

Amarillo TX market. No problems.


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

Market: Wilmington, NC
Affected channel: CBS / WILM / 10-1

Further to my original post about the loss of CBS OTA, I should also point out that this is our only CBS channel (maybe that's different elsewhere when OTA channels are lost?).

Please DirecTV, you need to look into this as this is the only way some of us can get local channels in HD is via OTA - and using our HR20s so they're integrated into our overall programming. As stated in my original thread, it's a straightforward (I hope) issue with only one channel being affected; the other locals (ABC, NBC, Fox, and PBS) are still working fine. I've also contacted the CBS local station and they seem to be well aware of the situation, and also believe it to be a DirecTV issue.

Thanks Doug for pursuing this - I'm sure there are plenty of others who too will be grateful for this!


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## dolfn1 (Feb 19, 2007)

Market/Location: Charlottesville, VA
Zip Code: 22901

Beginning sometime after 11pm on 3/2/10 the following stations disappeared from the guide.

WVAW (RF Channel 16) 16.1 ABC16 
WAHU (RF Channel 40) 27.1 FOX27 

Sub channels 16.2 and 27.2 are still in the guide. 

Reboots and rerunning antenna setup do not help.


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## marker101 (Nov 6, 2007)

jilardi2 said:


> all my locals are in hd with directv except pbs and cw, ota is mostly a backup for weather.


pbs is in hd.


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## jilardi2 (Mar 6, 2008)

marker101 said:


> pbs is in hd.


ok, that shows you how much i watch PBS.

i guess we just need the cw then

do you have occasional trouble with wnep or fox ( i think is wolf-tv) OTA


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Bit error rate ("signal strength") for FOX in NY appears to be jumping all over the place. It used to be consistently in the high 90's, but every now and then I get 771's that result in a/v burps in recordings.

Fox is coming from the Empire State Building, along with NBC, ABC and CBS. PBS comes from the same direction (228 degrees), but is in NJ. As opposed to FOX, signals from all these providers are clean and steady.

FOX is the highest #'d UHF channel I receive (44), and I wonder if that may have something to do with it. All the others range between VHF 7 and UHF 33. I understand that higher UHF channels are more sensitive to interference from leaves on trees, e.g., that could be randomly obstructing my signal, based on how windy it is at the time. :scratchin


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## ciurca (Apr 14, 2009)

Salisbury, MD DMA. No problems.


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## Brian Hanasky (Feb 22, 2008)

I have OTA in the Wheeling, WV/Steubenville, OH market and have NO issues.


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## snafup (Sep 20, 2007)

Raleigh-Durham. No problems. I do use/need an amplifier for antenna and 70 ft. run


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Steve said:


> Fox is coming from the Empire State Building, along with NBC, ABC and CBS. PBS comes from the same direction (228 degrees), but is in NJ. As opposed to FOX, signals from all these providers are clean and steady.


According to antennaweb, from my location in NJ FOX, PBS & WOR have a different compass heading then ABC, NBC, PIX & CBS. ABC,NBC,CBS & PIX are (from me) at 81degrees and 14.8 miles and PBS, FOX and WOR are at 75degrees and 17.1 miles so i don't think FOX is on the ESB unless antennaweb isn't updated. Seems the 17.1 mile stations are further uptown.

Actually I think antennaweb is screwed up because it lists PBS as 17.1 miles and it's actually in Newark which is probably less then 10 miles from me.


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## marker101 (Nov 6, 2007)

jilardi2 said:


> do you have occasional trouble with wnep or fox ( i think is wolf-tv) OTA


I mainly use my AM21 for WNEP-2 at this point, and from what I watch with that it looks pretty solid.


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## F1Mike (Sep 22, 2007)

HR20-100 lost in the guide 35-1 (ABC) and 35-2 (CBS) in the Lima, OH area. Normal methods to restore have failed. All other OTA channels in the area are showing and working normally.

Mike


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## jjfeo (Dec 9, 2009)

I use an OTA for D* (AM21). I am not getting 25.1 and 69.1. Although, I am getting them through the TV tuner.


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## Marlbs (Feb 19, 2010)

17.1 shows up sometimes when I do the scan and then it disappears. I went though so much to get this channel working an added, it is a shame that the AM21 seems to be so buggy. Columbus, OH market - 43215 ZIP.


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## islesfan (Oct 18, 2006)

No OTA where I live.


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## freerein100 (Dec 14, 2007)

Lake Charles, LA DMA : No problems thankfully as we may never get locals from D*


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## michaelancaster (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm in the Charlotte DMA and have no issues with local OTA's


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

My issues related to a few OTA channels I can easily get with my TV's OTA tuner (signal levels in the 70s and 80s) but can't get them on the HR20-700's tuner at all.


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## bakers12 (May 29, 2007)

We use OTA all every day with no problems. Chicago, DMA #3.


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## coolyman (Oct 4, 2007)

Cincinnati, no problems.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Seattle DMA. No issues. Since KOMO (ABC) put up their new antenna I am now getting their main and subchannels which I could not receive before.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TBlazer07 said:


> According to antennaweb, from my location in NJ FOX, PBS & WOR have a different compass heading then ABC, NBC, PIX & CBS. ABC,NBC,CBS & PIX are (from me) at 81degrees and 14.8 miles and PBS, FOX and WOR are at 75degrees and 17.1 miles so i don't think FOX is on the ESB unless antennaweb isn't updated. Seems the 17.1 mile stations are further uptown.
> 
> Actually I think antennaweb is screwed up because it lists PBS as 17.1 miles and it's actually in Newark which is probably less then 10 miles from me.


Something is probably wrong with the data. As you can see from the attached, from my location, FOX (WYNY) is at the same compass heading as NBC, CBS, et al, but is apparently located 3 miles closer to me! That would put their antenna somewhere inside Manhattan's Central Park, which I doubt. 

According to this, WYNY was among several broadcasters that signed a 15-year lease to broadcast from the ESB back in 2003, so unless they've temporarily re-located, I'm not sure why the distance discrepancy unless it's just an Antennaweb data entry error.


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## Kithron (Jul 24, 2008)

Binghamton,NY

No issues here


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## HIGHWAY (Apr 11, 2007)

lost fox sunday afternoon when race was on ota and directv also off for an hour.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Little Rock, AR
OTA locals are working fine. DirectTv HD lil has a problem with pixellation thats been going on for several weeks now, especially on the two VHF channels.


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## prozone1 (Sep 22, 2007)

Missoula OTA 8-1 and 8-2 do not come in any more, on both HR20-700 They are strong signals. No problem with Eye TV on my Imac from same ant.


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## GP245 (Aug 17, 2006)

Continue to be disappointed and frustrated by the lack of sensitivity of the AM21.

Same antenna's signal is split - one end to the AM21 and the other to my Sharp HDTV's tuner. No contest - the Sharp pulls in stations that the AM21 can't.

Also wish the AM21 has the ability to scan vs. using the bankrupt Tribune service.

Find myself using the TV's tuner more and more these days.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Steve said:


> Something is probably wrong with the data. As you can see from the attached, from my location, FOX (WYNY) is at the same compass heading as NBC, CBS, et al, but is apparently located 3 miles closer to me! That would put their antenna somewhere inside Manhattan's Central Park, which I doubt.
> 
> According to this, WYNY was among several broadcasters that signed a 15-year lease to broadcast from the ESB back in 2003, so unless they've temporarily re-located, I'm not sure why the distance discrepancy unless it's just an Antennaweb data entry error.


Interesting .... although that article is 7 years old. Have to check some other sources. Now you have me wondering.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

No PBS 16.1, 16.2, and 16.3 in Aberdeen, SD after new scan. Still available on receivers that I have not updated.


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## dettxw (Nov 21, 2007)

Normal channels are fine in OKC.
Didn't look and don't care about the religious or Spanish channels.


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## weaver6 (Nov 3, 2005)

Washington, DC. No problems, at least the last time I looked.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

n3ntj said:


> My issues related to a few OTA channels I can easily get with my TV's OTA tuner (signal levels in the 70s and 80s) but can't get them on the HR20-700's tuner at all.


I posted a reply on page 1, but that was in the context of the guide data and the OTA database having all the channels mapped (since the DirecTV OTA turners don't actually scan for channels). As to reception, that is another matter. I live in a very localized weak signal/multipath pocket in metro Atlanta (I have 700 ft "mountain" about 1.5 miles away in the line of sight) and the HR20-700's ATSC tuner is not a stellar performer at all, even with a 4228 antenna and amplifier on the roof. My Samsung HLS6187W DLP's tuner and my Zenith DTT900 converter are each able to handle about 4 stations the HR20 cannot. The other stations are stronger and the HR20 handles them fine. But it is a marked difference in capability. I have read the HR20 has a dated ATSC OTA tuner that was not knows to perform as well as more modern tuners.


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## irlspotter (Dec 14, 2006)

Chicago DMA - WBBMDT - Channel 2.1 was working fine until sometime yesterday. No access on HR21 - also, D* CHannel 2 WBBM (HD) is very pixelated. Also, started yesterday.


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## lansbury (Jun 29, 2007)

CBS (KOIN) is on CH6-1 here in Portland OR. It dropped from my OTA list months ago and nothing has got it back. All the other local OTA channels show up OK.


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## gcd0865 (Jul 23, 2008)

GP245:

Maybe your AM21 is going bad, like mine did. See my post #14 in this thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=173637


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm in Lansing Michigan and was having an issue with my 10-1 WILX NBC OTA during the Olympics, but the issue was went away during the 2nd week of the games. All other have been great.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

I voted that I have issues. However, they aren't too severe. Also, most are with my HR20 and the HR23/AM21 does much better. The problem I have is that there's a hill between me and the towers. I'm waiting for the trees to fill out to see if multipath is modified.

Binghamton, NY DMA


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## Kentstater (Jun 18, 2004)

I have problems only with one station with a marginal signal.

It is stong enough for the tunner on the TV, but not through the HR20-700.

Note: I am just north of Toledo, 11 miles from the towers, all come in well exept 24 (NBC). I am in the Detroit market so I have LILHD.


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## randycat (May 21, 2007)

eureka, ca
hr20-100b/hr21-100
ch 3(nbc) playback locks up both machines (multiple reboots during the olympics)
ch 17 (cbs) IKD, 30-slip skips to end
mediacenter via hdhomerun works fine


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## Beetle (May 29, 2007)

I have an H20 with no problems. I also have an HR22/100 (Ox395) and an AM21. The tuner in the TV that the HR22 is connected to works fine for channel 34-2. When I switch inputs to the D* equipment, signal level for this channel is in the mid 70's but there is no picture. I get a "Searching for signal on Over The Air tuner (771)" message. The channel appears in the guide of both receivers.


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## DIELES (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm in the Odessa/Midland, Tx market. The OTA's are in different directions so I have to have a rotating attena. The NBC affiliate(which is not on DIRECTV) Is the hardest to pickup. For some unknown reason, they chose to locate their transmitter 45 miles west of Odessa. Go figure.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> [...] I'm waiting for the trees to fill out to see if multipath is modified.


Probably will be the same here in the NY, NY DMA. I went up to the attic this morning and tweaked my antenna a bit to see if I could get FOX any better. Moving it a couple of inches didn't stop the wild fluctuations, but it did up the numbers. So now I constantly fluctuate between 83 and 95, instead of high 60's to high 70's.

It's the only channel I get that fluctuates so rapidly. It jumps 5-10 points almost once per second. The others only fluctuate 1-2 points, and less frequently.


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

I've just spoken with someone at our local station and he had received this message from DirecTV. Even though this was to WILM, it clearly affects OTA users across the country:

"Off air LP stations are no longer part of the DIRECTV Program Guide, because the low-power signals from these stations are not widely available to all customers in the DMA. I will let you know if anything changes regarding this decision."

See also his posting here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=254668&page=66

This is a really bad deal for us - it also seems really crazy because DirecTV already have channel 10 (i.e. the same WILM) in their program guide, but because the OTA 10-1 isn't there we can't tune it in, and therefore lose our HD source. Furthermore, although it's technically a LP station - as far as I'm concerned it's one of the best signals I get - much better than the supposedly full-power Fox station.


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## jjfeo (Dec 9, 2009)

jazzyjez said:


> I've just spoken with someone at our local station and he had received this message from DirecTV. Even though this was to WILM, it clearly affects OTA users across the country:
> 
> "Off air LP stations are no longer part of the DIRECTV Program Guide, because the low-power signals from these stations are not widely available to all customers in the DMA. I will let you know if anything changes regarding this decision."
> 
> ...


Same here in South Bend. 25.1 is a channel that D* offers as a local channel, but is now no longer available via the AM21. The other channel that we are haveing problems with is 69.1. It is not available though D* as a local channel. I did some research, and both of these channels come from the same antenna as our ABC 57.1 channel (and I think are all owned by the same company). I have found that I get the channels I mentioned at about 80%, so I have no problems with getting good reception with any of them. When I bought my AM21, D* didn't offer ABC 57.1 in HD, and I wanted to make sure my DVR could record in HD. I then realized that when there is a weather issue, and I lose the signal from the satellite, I still get the OTA signal, so I decided to keep using the AM21.

I will say that I do not like this idea and hope that it is changed. I still pay for the local channels (if this is something to make people pay for the local channels), I just want to make sure I don't miss anything due to weather.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

I WANT MORE said:


> No PBS 16.1, 16.2, and 16.3 in Aberdeen, SD after new scan. Still available on receivers that I have not updated.


Back now after national release update.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

See also this thread on the DirecTV tech forums http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10665242 and in particular this tweet from DirecTV

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/10227195574It is all very strange...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> See also this thread on the DirecTV tech forums http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10665242 and in particular this tweet from DirecTV
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/10227195574It is all very strange...


I re-ran antenna set-up on an HR20-700 this morning and after putting in my zip code, 5-1 (FOX) and 11-1 (CW) were not found. (Interestingly, it did find 5-2.) Ran it a second time and chose a secondary market with the same zip (which I did not do the first time), and all channels were found.

I chalked it up to signal, tho, because FOX and CW have the worst bit error rates of all my OTA channels. Could be it's related to the AM21 issue, tho.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

In the Minneapolis/Twin Cities market and haven't had any noticeable problems with OTA on HR10-250 or HR22+AM21.


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## Coca Cola Kid (Jul 19, 2009)

By issues do you mean reception of adjacent market channels? I live in the Flint/Tri-Cities, MI market and get those channels via spot beam but use I my antenna/AM21 setup to watch Detroit stations, and half of the time half of them don't come in at all (usually during the day) and the rest of time time they break up when traffic outside gets heavy. I know I probably need a stronger/higher antenna but should I vote yes in this survey?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Coca Cola Kid said:


> By issues do you mean reception of adjacent market channels? I live in the Flint/Tri-Cities, MI market and get those channels via spot beam but use I my antenna/AM21 setup to watch Detroit stations, and half of the time half of them don't come in at all (usually during the day) and the rest of time time they break up when traffic outside gets heavy. I know I probably need a stronger/higher antenna but should I vote yes in this survey?


Issues here are about not getting channels you got a few weeks ago, not channels you have trouble receiving due to a poor antenna setup or trying to receive channels from 60 or 70 miles away.


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> See also this thread on the DirecTV tech forums http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10665242 and in particular this tweet from DirecTV
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/10227195574It is all very strange...


Thanks for that info. The total lack of respect that DIRECTV is showing its customers with regard to this "problem": To take away something that was working perfectly, and without any explanation or advance notice is extremely aggravating.

The FCC has pursued the Digital Transistion across the US over the past couple of years - and some of us have invested in new equipment (antennas and associated cabling in my case) to take advantage of this. DIRECTV have also benefitted from this - perhaps indirectly - because I (like many others) have been able to integrate local HD reception via OTA into our satellite receivers, and thus chose to stay with DIRECTV rather than switch to cable in order to receive local channels in HD. (We don't all live in low numbered DMA regions that have HD locals via satellite.)

It's also worth pointing out that Wilmington, NC was the nation's "test bed" for switching to all digital broadcasting in September 2008 - 5 months ahead of the national transition. The local station in question - WILM - was one of those participating in this, and now DIRECTV see fit to exclude from its program guide because of its "low-power" status. [I could argue that there are plenty of other (satellite) channels that should be excluded from the guide because of their "low-quality" status but that's going off topic  - you have to have one smile through all this.]


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## rahchgo (Feb 2, 2007)

No OTA issues for me.


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## antennahead (Aug 3, 2007)

I have been with DTV since January of 1995. This issue has frustrated me to no end, and "if" a better alternative existed, I would leave them. I have called and talked to tech support about 10 times, including again last night, and the latest supervisor was clueless, clueless. Their answer repeatedly was "for $6 a month we can set you up on locals" 

I have explained that my local PBS moved their digital channel location, back to the original channel, on the day the digital switch over occured last year (moved from "44" I think, to "7"). I have called Tribune and they claim they have the correct location for them and have notified D* of this move. My bedroom receiver allowed me to "scan" for channels and I get all 3 PBS locals in HD OTA. The HR 20-100 will not scan for channels, only search and populate what they have for my market. How hard is this to make DTV understand? I question whether they don't want to understand, or are playing dumb to force customers to pay the extra $6 a month for locals. I want, and like all the additional sub carrier channels that are offered OTA in my market. Any ideas? I am so frustrated I don't want to call them anymore.

John


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## vikefan (Jan 20, 2008)

Rockford IL,

channels 13-1 & 13-2. No proplems for over a year. Today the guide shows 41-1 in place of 13-1. RBR no help. went through antenna setup. no help did a antenna reset then antenna setup and now it works. That was really strange losing 13-1 and 13-2 had no problem. All is well now


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## ThePrisoner (Jul 11, 2009)

No issues here in Albany, NY. I'm using an AM21 w/ HR21-700.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

My oldest of 3 HR20-700's is always having problems with OTA signal strength. I usually have to reboot it at least once a week. It used to only happen after rain fade, but now it happens on sunny days too. I'm guessing my problem is hardware related, since my other 2 HR20's never have OTA problems.


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## edenkers (Dec 17, 2007)

jazzyjez said:


> I've just spoken with someone at our local station and he had received this message from DirecTV. Even though this was to WILM, it clearly affects OTA users across the country:
> 
> "Off air LP stations are no longer part of the DIRECTV Program Guide, because the low-power signals from these stations are not widely available to all customers in the DMA. I will let you know if anything changes regarding this decision."
> 
> ...


I just created a thread about how my local FOX HD channel went missing.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2387212#post2387212

As far as I know it is a low power station. I guess this explains why the channel is no longer in the guide.

This is completely unbelievable. Come on DirecTV. I have been watching and recording on that channel for over 2 years. Give us back our local OTA channels!


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## antennahead (Aug 3, 2007)

edenkers said:


> I just created a thread about how my local FOX HD channel went missing.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2387212#post2387212
> 
> ...


The senior level tech customer service rep (she was obviously NOT a tech per se) flat out told me "we do not support nor have anything to do with OTA, you should contact someone like the Best Buy Geek Squad to check your OTA antenna or cable for a bad connection" ....... LMFAO, can you believe this? I am NOT technically challanged. I prewired my whole house, set up both my home theater systems, and back in 1995 installed and set up my first D* sat. They clearly don't give a damn and want the extra revenue from having you get your locals through them. She couldn't stop trying to talk me into paying $6 more dollars a month for locals delivered by them.

John


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## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

jazzyjez said:


> I've just spoken with someone at our local station and he had received this message from DirecTV. Even though this was to WILM, it clearly affects OTA users across the country:
> 
> "Off air LP stations are no longer part of the DIRECTV Program Guide, because the low-power signals from these stations are not widely available to all customers in the DMA. I will let you know if anything changes regarding this decision."


Well, that explains why all of the LP/TX stations are now gone from the OTA list.

This is a big deal here...the Wichita-Hutchinson DMA is so big that the "big-four affiliates" are networks of stations. Only the Wichita stations are carried by D*. If a tornado is near Dodge City (140mi away), the Wichita primary stations are on normal program, while the SW KS satellite stations are in live weather coverage. So without OTA they are SOL for non-stop severe weather info. Some of those are low-power and translator stations.

Not good.

They probably dropped them, so D* subs couldn't see just how many channels they don't provide via the bird. That might get some customers asking for them, eating up D*'s bandwidth.


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## edenkers (Dec 17, 2007)

antennahead said:


> ...They clearly don't give a damn and want the extra revenue from having you get your locals through them. She couldn't stop trying to talk me into paying $6 more dollars a month for locals delivered by them.
> 
> John


It looks like D* has to pay TMS for each and every station/channel that is the the Guide Data.



> On Mar 12, 2010, TmsDesk, Lineups <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure how it does though I know they go over our bill line by line and as you can imagine that would be a big task. Without going into the details, they pay for unique channels in their guides...that is most likely why they chose not to list them.


D* just raised our subscription rates and now they are cutting back on available services by removing guide data for low power OTA channels.



jazzyjez said:


> "Off air LP stations are no longer part of the DIRECTV Program Guide, because the low-power signals from these stations are not widely available to all customers in the DMA."


"Not widely available to all customers in the DMA", really? Give me a break. And what about those customers that were able to tune in those low-power signals just fine? Just hang them out to dry or better yet, just have them fork over an extra $6.00 a month for local HD channels.

:nono:


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## jjfeo (Dec 9, 2009)

edenkers said:


> "Not widely available to all customers in the DMA", really? Give me a break. And what about those customers that were able to tune in those low-power signals just fine? Just hang them out to dry or better yet, just have them fork over an extra $6.00 a month for local HD channels.
> 
> :nono:


I am not very happy about this either. The reason that I bought my AM21 is because when I upgraded my TV to HD, D* didn't carry our local ABC channel in HD. So I use the antenna to get my locals. I use the AM21 all time, and as an example why, we had a small rain storm come through around 7:45 (while I was watching ESPN), and we had a little rain fade at that time, and the storm was stronger around 8:15 while we were watching Survivor and we were able to watch it w/o any interruptions. If we were watching it via the D* local channels, we would have missed some of it because of the storm.


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

As of this evening (Friday, March 12th), channel 10-1 (WILM-CBS) is back in the guide!

Perhaps DBStalk and this thread have played a part in getting this resolved, perhaps it was other influences, either way, thanks DIRECTV for restoring the guide for this channel. 

Now I just hope for two things on this subject:
1) that it's a permanent correction and I don't wake up on another morning and find it gone again,
2) that other users across the country are also seeing their missing OTA channels restored.

Thanks to Doug and all at DBStalk for their help in this!!!

J.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

my wlbz-2 Bangor ME showed back up and was working after redoing setup (on all 3 units) too. very odd, but working now.


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## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

_No more OTA ,
View attachment 21530
_


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

jazzyjez said:


> As of this evening (Friday, March 12th), channel 10-1 (WILM-CBS) is back in the guide!
> 
> Perhaps DBStalk and this thread have played a part in getting this resolved, perhaps it was other influences, either way, thanks DIRECTV for restoring the guide for this channel.
> 
> ...


Well I did speak too soon. Less than a day after everything was restored it's now gone again. Last night when I got in, the channel was back, all my series links were back, all without any action on my part (no reboot, rescan, etc.).

This afternoon - March 13th, when I returned from work, 10-1 was gone again from both my HR20 receivers.

DIRECTV - this is total incompetence on your part. It's bad enough that you dropped our ability to receive CBS in the first place, but then to toy with us by putting it back for just a few hours is insulting. I think this warrants attention from the FCC.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

ub1934 said:


> _No more OTA ,
> View attachment 21530
> _


Ouch. Had a similar issue at my place. I relocated the antenna inside my attic and was surprised that the reception is so good in there. That said, I'm holding off final judgement 'til the trees fill out in a couple of months.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

I cannot receive KGO TV Channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 in San Francisco anymore with both of my HR20-700's. The HR20-700 antenna signal strength meters show no signal on either tuner whatsoever for 7-1, 7-2, and 7-3. Both HR20-700's used to receive channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 until I believe KGO transitioned from physical digital ch. 24 to digital ch. 7 in 2009. If I connect my OTA directly to either TV, both TV's can receive Ch. 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 so I know my antenna is picking up the signal ok. I have tried disconnecting the OTA antennal connection, resetting, and initializing the antenna settings on both HR-20's (per other dbstalk members recommendation) but it did not fix the problem. My theory is that the HR20's are trying to receive KGO on their old phyiscal frequency of digital ch. 24 in instead of digital ch. 7. All other OTA locals work fine with both HR20's except for KGO TV.

Please get Directv to fix the problem.

Thanks


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## antennahead (Aug 3, 2007)

kokishin said:


> I cannot receive KGO TV Channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 in San Francisco anymore with both of my HR20-700's. The HR20-700 antenna signal strength meters show no signal on either tuner whatsoever for 7-1, 7-2, and 7-3. Both HR20-700's used to receive channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 until I believe KGO transitioned from physical digital ch. 24 to digital ch. 7 in 2009. If I connect my OTA directly to either TV, both TV's can receive Ch. 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 so I know my antenna is picking up the signal ok. I have tried disconnecting the OTA antennal connection, resetting, and initializing the antenna settings on both HR-20's (per other dbstalk members recommendation) but it did not fix the problem. My theory is that the HR20's are trying to receive KGO on their old phyiscal frequency of digital ch. 24 in instead of digital ch. 7. All other OTA locals work fine with both HR20's except for KGO TV.
> 
> Please get Directv to fix the problem.
> 
> Thanks


This is EXACTLY my problem, WITV, the PBS affiliate moved from the old HD digital location, on the day of the national transition last year, back to 7-1, 7-2, and 7-3. I am also convinced that my HR 20 is looking for the wrong frequency. I have an H20 in the bedroom, the menu options for that box actually allowed me to "scan" the airwaves for channels, and 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 all come in fine. In one of my many calls to D* about this, I actually got a high level tech who knew exactly what I was talking about ........... still, they did not fix it after he told me they would. I think they don't care, or want us to pony up the $6 a month for their locals. I want ALL the local station subcarriers as well, OTA. It makes me wonder if the HR20 software does not have the option to scan for channels, and we are at their mercy to get the frequency location correct. Tribune swears to me they have notified D* that the correct location for WITV IS 7-1, 7-2, 7-3. I am so frustrated I am beside myself.

John


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## doctor j (Jun 14, 2006)

Birmingham, Al seems correct.

Doctor j


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## F1Mike (Sep 22, 2007)

jazzyjez said:


> Well I did speak too soon. Less than a day after everything was restored it's now gone again. Last night when I got in, the channel was back, all my series links were back, all without any action on my part (no reboot, rescan, etc.).
> 
> This afternoon - March 13th, when I returned from work, 10-1 was gone again from both my HR20 receivers.
> 
> DIRECTV - this is total incompetence on your part. It's bad enough that you dropped our ability to receive CBS in the first place, but then to toy with us by putting in back for just a few hours is insulting. I think this warrants attention from the FCC.


Same thing here. As I reported 35-1 (ABC) and 35-2 (CBS) were gone from the Lima, Ohio guide. Yesterday they both returned on their own. Well today they are gone again on my HR20-100 and HR10-250, the broadcast listings on zap2it.com are correct.

DirecTV please fix this problem!

Mike


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## gimp (Jul 29, 2006)

I just checked and KGO TV Channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 in San Francisco come in just fine on my HR22-700 with AM-21.



kokishin said:


> I cannot receive KGO TV Channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 in San Francisco anymore with both of my HR20-700's. The HR20-700 antenna signal strength meters show no signal on either tuner whatsoever for 7-1, 7-2, and 7-3. Both HR20-700's used to receive channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 until I believe KGO transitioned from physical digital ch. 24 to digital ch. 7 in 2009. If I connect my OTA directly to either TV, both TV's can receive Ch. 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 so I know my antenna is picking up the signal ok. I have tried disconnecting the OTA antennal connection, resetting, and initializing the antenna settings on both HR-20's (per other dbstalk members recommendation) but it did not fix the problem. My theory is that the HR20's are trying to receive KGO on their old phyiscal frequency of digital ch. 24 in instead of digital ch. 7. All other OTA locals work fine with both HR20's except for KGO TV.
> 
> Please get Directv to fix the problem.
> 
> Thanks


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## antennahead (Aug 3, 2007)

gimp said:


> I just checked and KGO TV Channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 in San Francisco come in just fine on my HR22-700 with AM-21.


That kind of backs up my theory, the software on the AM-21 is fine, the older HR20's is not.


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## hayseed99 (Dec 14, 2006)

Channels 41.1 and 41.2 were removed from the guide here in Yakima, WA.
They are our local FOX channels and are a low power broadcast, but we
receive them just fine - or at least we used to. Keeping us from getting this
channel on my HR-21 is creating quite a hardship in my house as my girls
can't live without being able to record American Idol. ;o) I sure hope D*
steps up and gives us back what the took away. BTW, they do not have
our local channels in HD, and probably never will.


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## antennahead (Aug 3, 2007)

Any of the gurus here who talk with D* and beta test equipment, available to see if we can get a definitive answer to this OTA issue? I don't think my problem is weak signal strength, but the receiver not having the new channel location.


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## bcrab (Mar 7, 2007)

Within the last two weeks we've had 7.7 NBC, 7.8 NBC Sub and 51.1 ABC disappear from the channel guide in Twin Falls,ID. On both HR20-100's and a HR20-700.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

Memphis, no issues that I know of.


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## F1Mike (Sep 22, 2007)

antennahead said:


> Any of the gurus here who talk with D* and beta test equipment, available to see if we can get a definitive answer to this OTA issue? I don't think my problem is weak signal strength, but the receiver not having the new channel location.


On my old HR10-250 I can scan OTA channels and I can restore 35-1 and 35-2 and watch them fine. The only problem the guide just shows 'Regular Schedule'. Before DirecTV took away the channels on my HR20-100, I could watch the channels fine and had excellent signal strength, so it is not a signal strength issue. It is just a DirecTV issue removing channels from the guide feed.

I guess it is time to reconsider keeping DirecTV if they are going to play the censorship game on what they will allow us to watch OTA. And no, they don't provide my area by sat.

Mike


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## antennahead (Aug 3, 2007)

F1Mike said:


> On my old HR10-250 I can scan OTA channels and I can restore 35-1 and 35-2 and watch them fine. The only problem the guide just shows 'Regular Schedule'. Before DirecTV took away the channels on my HR20-100, I could watch the channels fine and had excellent signal strength, so it is not a signal strength issue. It is just a DirecTV issue removing channels from the guide feed.
> 
> I guess it is time to reconsider keeping DirecTV if they are going to play the censorship game on what they will allow us to watch OTA. And no, they don't provide my area by sat.
> 
> Mike


Agreed. On my H20 in the bedroom, it can scan for channels, and after the digital switchover, i re-scanned for the moved channels and the PBS stations that moved showed right back up. If Tribune is providing them with the correct channel locations in my situation, for the receivers that don't scan for channels, and after talking to them I have no reason to doubt them, why can't D* just load the new information. This really sucks, not just the missing channels, but the lack of straight talk and knowledgable staff on their end when you call them. It's probably "dumb like a fox", they really don't care and have the attitude "you'll pay us the fee for locals, and not even get all the subcarriers"


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## jazzyjez (Jan 2, 2006)

Some of you haven't fully read the background on this... you need to realize that there's nothing wrong with your receivers, and you're most likely wasting your time doing re-scans, etc.

DIRECTV have deliberately removed certain channels from the guide and therefore we're completely out-of-luck on this until they permanently restore them. See this earlier post:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2385513#post2385513

It now occurs to me that they are possibly also guilty of "bait and switch" tactics: Part of their marketing campaign a year or so back was that for those that couldn't receive HD locals via satellite would have the option to receive them via an antenna connected to their DIRECTV receiver. Well having invested a considerable sum of money in their receivers over the past couple of years, that promise no longer holds.

DIRECTV - we're all still waiting for a formal response from the company on this topic.

Added this from the HR20 instruction manual:
What You Can Watch
*With the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR, you have access to all types of televised programming, including:*
DIRECTV high-definition and standard-definition digital programming via satellite, including local channels if offered in your area (DIRECTV service subscription required).
*Local digital TV channels, including any local HD broadcasts shown in your area, available via the DIRECTV Satellite or an off-air antenna.*


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## F1Mike (Sep 22, 2007)

Yeah, they remove the channels from the guide because there are some people who can't receive them. What about those who CAN receive them?

DirecTV, this is probably the stupidest decision I have ever heard of. Either provide ALL stations via satellite in HD or provide the capability to receive all stations via OTA. It is up to the consumer to provide the proper antenna to receive the channels in the respective areas, not up to DirecTV to determine which stations they will ALLOW you to watch.

Since not all customers have HD televisions are they going to elimimate HD channels since not all their customers can watch in HD?

Mike


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

F1Mike said:


> Yeah, they remove the channels from the guide because there are some people who can't receive them. What about those who CAN receive them?
> 
> DirecTV, this is probably the stupidest decision I have ever heard of. Either provide ALL stations via satellite in HD or provide the capability to receive all stations via OTA. It is up to the consumer to provide the proper antenna to receive the channels in the respective areas, not up to DirecTV to determine which stations they will ALLOW you to watch.
> 
> ...


I think this is why the thread was started if you are having problems like in guide data and or missing channels report the problem so they are aware of it.


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## oldcrooner (Feb 23, 2004)

I'm in the Cleveland OH DMA but I have my AM-21 locals set up for adjoining Youngstown and Wheeling WV-Steubenville DMAs as most of the Cleveland stations are on satellite and I only rarely watch them in any case. I've noticed that the AM-21 will not receive the WNEO-DT (PBS) subchannel 45.4 (V-Me) although the signal meter shows a strong signal. 45.1, 45.2 and 45.3 are fine. 45.4 is fine on the TVs tuner and on a stand-alone LG HDTV tuner I have. 45.4 does show up in the "edit antenna channels" list and it is checked. Strangely, that list also shows a listing for a WKBN-DT ch 27.3 which does not even exist, they are only 27.1 and 27.2 and one for WEAO-DT 49.4 Akron which is in the Cleveland DMA even though it simulcasts WNEO programming. (There is no mention there of their 49.1-49.3 subchannels.) I think someone at D* and/or Tribune has messed up on their listings for Western Reserve PBS and WKBN.  I've tried resetting things several times but that doesn't correct anything.


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## eandras (Feb 16, 2007)

I have an HR22-100 with an AM21 and when I go to the signal meter I get 5.2 and 9.2 with 80% signal. When I go to the channels 5.2 and 9.2 I get searching for sugnal on ota tuner with a code of 792. The channel work directly on th etv. So what's up with the am21?


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## F1Mike (Sep 22, 2007)

I contacted the chief engineer for WOHL who contacted DirecTV, I now have my 35-1 and 35-2 channels back.  

I contacted him for some additional information to make a phone call to DirecTV and he sort of picked up the ball and ran with it. Turns out they had a couple of employees who had the same issue.

It will be interesting to see if these channels remain in the guide.

Mike


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

OMaha NE KMTV Channel 3 when showing CBS network feed.

Sound drop out. Signal is at 83% almost all the time. Never goes below 75%


I get OTA from my DMA and a near by DMA, none of the other channels have issues.


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## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

tkrandall said:


> Can you please translate that in layman's :sure: terms?


OK...digital Low-Power (LP) and Translator (TX) TV stations were included in the OTA setup. In other words, ALL digital TV stations within a market were available to receive OTA. So, if you were close enough, and have the proper antenna, you could use your D* capable IRD to watch/DVR them.

This last software update dropped ALL LP/TX stations.

Here in Kansas, the Wichita/Hutch market is so vast, yet D* only carries the stations that are in Wichita. If you live in Goodland (NW KS), or Great Bend (NC KS), you don't get your "local" ABC station via D*, they see KAKE-TV. Most of the time KUPK, in Colby and K30GD, in Great Bend simply rebroadcast KAKE. But, during severe weather or breaking news, in those regions, they are only live on the locals. If a tornado is near Great Bend, KAKE is mostly on normal program, while K30GD has live weather coverage.

So, your out-of-luck if you're a D* customer in Great Bend, unless you use cable or OTA.

In some areas, it's not just religions/shopping/Spanish language channels that are LP/TX.

I like the HR24...but now that D* is starting to sour the OTA offerings. I'll play wait and see, before locking into a two-year commitment. I enjoyed being able to watch two additional channels, each with four sub-channels, and recording them via the DVR.

A matching AM-24 would be nice, too.


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## Don Moe (May 22, 2005)

In the West Palm Beach, FL market, their are several OTA sub-channels that are not included in the DTV Guide. One example is WPEC CBS-12, which has two active subchannels in addition to the primary CBS feed, namely a Spanish channel 12-2 and continuous weather radar on 12-3. The DTV guide does include 12-2, but not 12-3.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Don Moe said:


> In the West Palm Beach, FL market, their are several OTA sub-channels that are not included in the DTV Guide. One example is WPEC CBS-12, which has two active subchannels in addition to the primary CBS feed, namely a Spanish channel 12-2 and continuous weather radar on 12-3. The DTV guide does include 12-2, but not 12-3.


SO did they disappear or have they never been there? If they have never been there check at zap2it and see if they are listed there for your area. if not, you need to contact Tribune and get them listed, then they can be added by D*.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

On April 21, I sent an email to Janice Reyes, Chief Engineer at KGO TV explaining the problem. She said would contact Directv. A few weeks later, I was able to receive Ch 7 OTA for the first time in many months. However sometimes I will get a message saying "Searching for signal on the off air tuner (771)". When I check the OTA antenna strenth meter on both my HR20-700's, it shows 0. But the signal will come back eventually. It hovers around 78 on the signal strenth meter when the signal is present.

How about other folks that have not been able to get ch 7-1, -2 , -3 see if they can now get KGO TV ch 7 OTA and report back.

Thanks



kokishin said:


> I cannot receive KGO TV Channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 in San Francisco anymore with both of my HR20-700's. The HR20-700 antenna signal strength meters show no signal on either tuner whatsoever for 7-1, 7-2, and 7-3. Both HR20-700's used to receive channels 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 until I believe KGO transitioned from physical digital ch. 24 to digital ch. 7 in 2009. If I connect my OTA directly to either TV, both TV's can receive Ch. 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 so I know my antenna is picking up the signal ok. I have tried disconnecting the OTA antenna connection, resetting, and initializing the antenna settings on both HR-20's (per other dbstalk members recommendation) but it did not fix the problem. My theory is that the HR20's are trying to receive KGO on their old phyiscal frequency of digital ch. 24 in instead of digital ch. 7. All other OTA locals work fine with both HR20's except for KGO TV.
> 
> Please get Directv to fix the problem.
> 
> Thanks


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## antennahead (Aug 3, 2007)

kokishin said:


> On April 21, I sent an email to Janice Reyes, Chief Engineer at KGO TV explaining the problem. She said would contact Directv. A few weeks later, I was able to receive Ch 7 OTA for the first time in many months. However sometimes I will get a message saying "Searching for signal on the off air tuner (771)". When I check the OTA antenna strenth meter on both my HR20-700's, it shows 0. But the signal will come back eventually. It hovers around 78 on the signal strenth meter when the signal is present.
> 
> How about other folks that have not been able to get ch 7-1, -2 , -3 see if they can now get KGO TV ch 7 OTA and report back.
> 
> Thanks


I need to contact my local PBS, I have the exact same problem, but get 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 perfectly in the bedroom on the H20, after a re-scan, nada on the HR20 in the living room. I refuse to call D* again after the crappy way they treated me last time, which BTW was about the 10th call on this issue. I did get a knowledgable tech one night very late, the only one out of 10 calls that understood the issue. The last call the "supervisor" talked down to me like I was an idiot. I informed her that back in the early days (1995) I installed my own dish including alignment, after pre-wiring my entire home, and that I was not a tech noobie nor idiot. All she could say was "OTA was no longer a D* issue and they didn't support that anymore, but for $XX they could provide me with locals and solve my problem


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Phoenix DMA
I can receive 7.1, but not 7.2 (KAZT-CD 36) There are also several OTA stations we do not get because TMS does not have them listed on Zap2it


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## yyygac2 (Jul 12, 2008)

My equipment: HR21-200 w/ AM21

When watching Channel 38-1 (WCPX, Chicago ION affiliate) to watch HD programming, I regularly get complete audio drop outs. Audio doesn't come back unless I change to another channel and change back (I typically tune to Channel 38 to verify that the D* SD feed is not also having this problem and it may be just a broadcast issue) . This problem has been occurring sporadically for at least the past half year.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Los angeles.. No issues


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## boogie (Jun 7, 2009)

Los Angeles DMA with no problems. All 80 channels (12 English speaking) work fine.


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## JJEZ96 (Apr 21, 2007)

Houston, I am unable to receive 13.1 or 11.1 with AM21 connected to HR24-500. I contacted directv about the issue today. Anybody else in Houston having this problem? I don't think it is a tuner issue, but a guide issue.

JJ


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## aa9vi (Sep 4, 2007)

Chicago DMA:
unable to receive WPVN, and WOCK. D* removed them from my channel list.

WYIN needs to be remapped for proper subchannels.

Milwaukee DMA:
WMVT needs to be remapped


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