# ViP722K runs the fan at full speed for no reason



## chouseman

I'm a new customer with a ViP722K in use for 4 months. Room is 68F, air vents are unblocked, and the surface below the receiver is cool.

Every now and then, more often lately, the fan will turn on at full (loud) speed and not stop until I hit the red reset button to reboot. Then it's quiet again until the next time (24-48 hours).

If there was a mechanical/environmental-related heat problem before the reset, then the fan should continue to run at high speed soon after the reset. 

So that leaves either an overheating CPU due to a software problem, or a system that thinks it needs cooling when it doesn't.

While the fan is running, there's no other apparent symptoms. It doesn't matter whether something is recording or not. Doesn't seem to bother the quality of things that are recording.

Since I don't see other complaints similar to this one, what's the easiest path to a solution before the fan siezes and the box stops working? I have a feeling it may be hard to convince E* to swap out the receiver when there's no other symptoms.


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## clotter

When I first got my Dish service hooked up last April, I got two 722k's. One of them had the fan running full speed right out of the box. The other was normal. I thought it would slow down to normal after a bit & let the installer leave. It never did & he came back & replaced it right away. Definitely contact Dish.


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## harsh

Short bursts of the fan running are sometimes a sign of frequent reboots. The only time the fans on my ViP622 and 508 are audible is during a (re)boot.

Extended episodes are not a good sign. If the hard drive or power supply are running exceptionally hot, there are going to be issues.


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## chouseman

harsh said:


> Extended episodes are not a good sign. If the hard drive or power supply are running exceptionally hot, there are going to be issues.


I don't think anything is running exceptionally hot. The hard drive max temp is 138F, the average 132F. The metal case is quite cool when the fan is noisy. If the fan is running on purpose, then the temperature reading is wrong. Mostly it's a noise problem, and certainly not good for fan life.

Thanks for the comments. It went about 3 days this last time. I guess I'll see if it gets worse or better and call Dish when it's coming on more frequently.


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## Stewart Vernon

132 degrees seems like a high average temperature to me.

Not necessarily high for a peak... but for an average?

I just checked my 922... which is essentially the same as a 722K + some more stuff inside.

Low: 102
High: 132
Average: 110

I'm thinking your fan is running legitimately if your average temperature is 132 degrees.

So the only question left is... IF you're sure it is getting adequate ventilation room on both sides... then eventually whatever is overheating is probably going to fail.


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## chouseman

There's nothing on either side of the receiver at the moment.

Do we know how many fans are in there and what sensors exist to control the fan(s)? 'Cause i doubt that a fan is being controlled by the HDD's internal temperator sensor.


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## Stewart Vernon

chouseman said:


> There's nothing on either side of the receiver at the moment.


I hate to ask... but that implies that sometimes there might be something on either side? I forget the exact suggested amount of space... I know mine has a couple of inches on one side and about a foot on the other, plus basically my whole TV shelf is an open thing (no back wall, just shelves)... so I've never had to worry about airflow with mine.

I don't know how/where the sensors are... but even if the hard drive doesn't directly trigger a fan to come on... if it is reaching 132 degrees all the time, then it would be heating something else (or something else is heating the had drive) that could be tripping that fan sensor.

Without taking it apart, it would be tough to guess where the heat is being generated from... but it sure does sound like something isn't right.


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## wje

How much clearance do you have above the receiver? I originally had a similar problem. I had about 3 inches of clearance above, several on each side. What I found was that the fan/case geometry set up a very nice cyclic flow.. in one side, out the other, back over the top, back in. So, all it was doing was circulating hot air. I moved things around to get about 6 inches above, and everything's been fine since.

One other thing to consider is the quality of your power. As a previous poster commented, the fan behavior can also be a sign of frequent reboots. I keep mine on a UPS; it doesn't take much of a power glitch to trigger a reboot.


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## peano

Something on top of the receiver, or not enough clearance on top will really raise the internal temp. 

Something underneath it that runs warm does the same thing.

138 is too hot.


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## Jhon69

peano said:


> Something on top of the receiver, or not enough clearance on top will really raise the internal temp.
> 
> Something underneath it that runs warm does the same thing.
> 
> 138 is too hot.


I agree that 138 is too hot.

My 722k/wMT2 numbers are:

HDD High Temp: 140
HDD Low Temp: 104
HDD Average Temp:120

Mine is sitting on top of my 50" RPTV out in the open and there are times I hear the fan kick in full speed,then turn off.We keep our home at 72 degrees,I use to be able to keep it lower but since I lost weight I'm freezing and that's even though I'm wearing my outdoor coat inside also.Think I lost all my body insulation.

Can't wait for springtime so I can turn on the AC.


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## chouseman

peano said:


> Something on top of the receiver, or not enough clearance on top will really raise the internal temp.
> Something underneath it that runs warm does the same thing.


There's nothing on any side or top. It sits on a tower speaker that makes no heat. There is baseboard heat about 4 feet below the receiver, but there's also 6" or more clearance from the back of the receiver to the wall with the baseboard.



Jhon69 said:


> I agree that 138 is too hot.
> My 722k/wMT2 numbers are:
> HDD High Temp: 140
> HDD Low Temp: 104


OK, then I guess 140 is too hot as well, right?

I just checked the receiver case after an overnight of not being used, and it is lukewarm to the touch. That compares to being very cool after the fan had been running for 10+ minutes.

At least one of the problems here seems to be, why doesn't the fan turn off?

Will Dish Network know if I remove the cover to the case? Any interlock to rat me out if I open it up? I'd like to put my finger on a hard drive and see just how warm it might actually be. I'd also like to see exactly what the fan is cooling when it's on - whether it's a case fan or cpu fan.


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## Stewart Vernon

chouseman said:


> OK, then I guess 140 is too hot as well, right?


You missed an important part there... Your average is as high as many of us have as a peak (high).

It is normal for the temperature to spike high sometimes... which can trigger a temporary fan burst... but yours appears to be sustaining a high temperature even with the fan running full.



chouseman said:


> At least one of the problems here seems to be, why doesn't the fan turn off?


Think about that... Your fan is running full-out and still your average temperature is as high as our highest... that, to me, indicates that the fan is trying its best to do its job to cool down whatever is overheating. i.e. the fan running isn't a problem... it is a symptom of the problem AND probably the only reason why your receiver hasn't  melted already.



chouseman said:


> Will Dish Network know if I remove the cover to the case? Any interlock to rat me out if I open it up? I'd like to put my finger on a hard drive and see just how warm it might actually be. I'd also like to see exactly what the fan is cooling when it's on - whether it's a case fan or cpu fan.


If you own it, you can do whatever you want... but you shouldn't take apart a leased receiver because it isn't yours to take apart and Dish might very well take the stance that any damage was your fault for taking it apart.

Given the way you described your receiver (sounds like it is fairly out in the open for airflow)... I would be bucking hard for Dish to send a replacement to swap it out before it fails permanently.


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## chouseman

Stewart Vernon said:


> but yours appears to be sustaining a high temperature even with the fan running full.


That has not been proven. There's no real-time temperature reading so I don't know what the HDD temps are after the fan has run for a while.

Does the 722k fan have a medium or low speed, or it just off & max speed? I never hear anything but silence or the full noise level. If there's a low/medium speed that isn't working, that would explain a lot. It would mean the fan doesn't come on until the temp is high enough to trigger max speed, and that would result in a higher than normal average. Once the fan does come on, I hit the reset button after 5-10 minutes and the fan stays off for another 1-3 days.


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## Stewart Vernon

chouseman said:


> I don't think anything is running exceptionally hot. The hard drive max temp is 138F, the average 132F.





chouseman said:


> That has not been proven. There's no real-time temperature reading so I don't know what the HDD temps are after the fan has run for a while.


You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit... You posted your max and average hard drive temps...

In this case it doesn't matter what the drive temps are after the fan has run for a while... your average is your average... and it is almost the same as your max!

That means even when the fan is running full out, it isn't cooling the receive much below your max... OR it means your temperature is spiking REALLY high during that time to way offset normal temps...otherwise the average wouldn't be that high. Either way, something is raising the temp above normal.

Since you seem to have eliminated poor air circulation as a problem, the only thing left is a failing receiver that ultimately is going to burn itself out since you can't service it yourself... so it seems like you need to call Dish and get the thing swapped out for a different receiver.

Is there some reason you don't want to do that?


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## chouseman

Stewart Vernon said:


> That means even when the fan is running full out, it isn't cooling the receive much below your max... OR it means your temperature is spiking REALLY high during that time to way offset normal temps...otherwise the average wouldn't be that high.


No, it doesn't have to mean any of those things. Remember, my fan doesn't run full out for more than 0.2% of the time over the course of 2-3 days. The rest of the time, the temperature is free to creep upward until the fan finally comes on. Maybe the fan is coming on too late, or as I suggested before, not running on lower speeds when it should be.


Stewart Vernon said:


> Is there some reason you don't want to do that?


I'm expecting that process to be lengthy and ultimately unsuccessful (meaning, they won't be convinced to swap it out), and I have no time for it for the next several days. But maybe I'll try it next week.


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## chouseman

One other thing, if I am successful in getting them to swap it out, will I be able to save all my DVR content to an EHD, and then use that EHD with the replacement receiver?


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## [email protected] Network

chouseman said:


> I'm expecting that process to be lengthy and ultimately unsuccessful (meaning, they won't be convinced to swap it out), and I have no time for it for the next several days. But maybe I'll try it next week.


If you can PM me the account # then I can look into replacing that for you. Overheating is never a good thing as Stewart has mentioned before, it will burn itself out eventually. If we replace it early then we can make sure your receiver works while you wait for the new one 



chouseman said:


> One other thing, if I am successful in getting them to swap it out, will I be able to save all my DVR content to an EHD, and then use that EHD with the replacement receiver?


You can back up the recordings onto a EHD. It will work with the replacement once it gets activated.


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## chouseman

Thanks Tommy, I guess if all I need to do is send you a PM, I can handle that right now!


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## kspeters

These things run hotter than a 622. I know because I took the stats from the diagnose screen and wrotethem down to compare. Anyway I put a Thermolake USB fan on the back left side sucking air out and now My High is like 98 degrees and the avg is 94 and the low is 84. I was experiencing slow menu screens and shortened recordings before I started to run the fan. It could be coincidence but there it is.


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## SaltiDawg

chouseman said:


> ...I have a feeling it may be hard to convince E* to swap out the receiver when there's no other symptoms.


....and then you go on to fight every helpful suggestion that is made.

Call Dish and explain your problem. If they don't help, to include replacing your receiver, come back her.

You are manufacturing a problem that may or may not exist. :lol:


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## Jhon69

chouseman said:


> I don't think anything is running exceptionally hot. The hard drive max temp is 138F, the average 132F. The metal case is quite cool when the fan is noisy. If the fan is running on purpose, then the temperature reading is wrong. Mostly it's a noise problem, and certainly not good for fan life.
> 
> Thanks for the comments. It went about 3 days this last time. I guess I'll see if it gets worse or better and call Dish when it's coming on more frequently.





Jhon69 said:


> I agree that 138 is too hot.
> 
> My 722k/wMT2 numbers are:
> 
> HDD High Temp: 140
> HDD Low Temp: 104
> HDD Average Temp:120
> 
> Mine is sitting on top of my 50" RPTV out in the open and there are times I hear the fan kick in full speed,then turn off.We keep our home at 72 degrees,I use to be able to keep it lower but since I lost weight I'm freezing and that's even though I'm wearing my outdoor coat inside also.Think I lost all my body insulation.
> 
> Can't wait for springtime so I can turn on the AC.





chouseman said:


> There's nothing on any side or top. It sits on a tower speaker that makes no heat. There is baseboard heat about 4 feet below the receiver, but there's also 6" or more clearance from the back of the receiver to the wall with the baseboard.
> 
> OK, then I guess 140 is too hot as well, right?
> 
> I just checked the receiver case after an overnight of not being used, and it is lukewarm to the touch. That compares to being very cool after the fan had been running for 10+ minutes.
> 
> At least one of the problems here seems to be, why doesn't the fan turn off?
> 
> Will Dish Network know if I remove the cover to the case? Any interlock to rat me out if I open it up? I'd like to put my finger on a hard drive and see just how warm it might actually be. I'd also like to see exactly what the fan is cooling when it's on - whether it's a case fan or cpu fan.


No, look at the HDD average temp you said on yours and the HDD average temp on mine?.There is your difference.


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## chouseman

Since Dish has agreed to replace the receiver on the basis of nothing more than this forum conversation, that's what is happening. I'm not accustomed to such easy customer support, which is why I generally eschew trying to get support unless the problem is severe. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.

And I still believe that HDD internal temps of 130F are not unusual for two drives inside a box where the fan doesn't run for days at a time. It will be interesting to see how a replacement receiver behaves.

Meanwhile, I'd say this topic can be considered closed/solved until I have a report on the behavior of the replacement.


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## SaltiDawg

chouseman said:


> ...I generally eschew trying to get support unless the problem is severe. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.
> 
> And I still believe that HDD internal temps of 130F are not unusual for two drives inside a box where the fan doesn't run for days at a time....


You still don't get it!


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## Stewart Vernon

Please do let us know after you make the swap with your new receiver... and I would be particularly interested to see if your replacement receiver has substantially lower average temperature after having been in place for long enough to make a valid observation on its behavior.

Fortunately since Dish recently made the external hard drive feature a free add-on to their DVRs... you can archive your existing recordings from your current receiver... and the advantage of getting this replaced now is that you should have time to do that before it fails on you.


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## chouseman

SaltiDawg said:


> You still don't get it!


I haven't noticed you making any substantial contributions to this topic, other than criticizing my responses. If you're so put off by whatever you think I don't get, please feel free to ignore this topic and/or unsubscribe from it.

And if I was manufacturing a problem with Dish Customer support that may or may not exist, I think I just explained why and how I now understand those concerns may have been unfounded. Next time I'll probably go directly to Dish with an equipment problem rather than asking about it here.


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## jporum

chouseman said:


> And I still believe that HDD internal temps of 130F are not unusual for two drives inside a box where the fan doesn't run for days at a time.


TWO drives?


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## SaltiDawg

chouseman said:


> ... Next time I'll probably go directly to Dish with an equipment problem rather than asking about it here.


 :lol:


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## SaltiDawg

jporum said:


> TWO drives?


Don't challenge him.


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## chouseman

jporum said:


> TWO drives?


"Never mind" on that detail. Somewhere in a parallel galaxy long ago and far away, I got the impression the 722k had two internal HDD's.


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## Stewart Vernon

_Ok... it's worth a reminder here to not attack each other. I get that there is some frustration but please attack the problem and not each other._


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## chouseman

Well... here's an update. Not to mention further explanation of my hesitance to get something fixed that wasn't terribly broken.

The replacement 722k arrived today. I should have known right away something wasn't right, I hooked up all cables, plugged it in, it did the normal power-on fan noise which subsided, and then it got quiet. Too quiet. The TV screen was blank. The hard drive was not humming. Waited and nothing. So I pushed the reset button and it came to life. Hmmm.

Setup instructions included didn't match the startup screens. Got that sorted with help from the activation line. Next thing I noticed, after restoring timers from the remote control, there were no recording events scheduled. No time for that, had to leave. 

Came back several hours later, turned on the TV, saw the "receiver is currently off" message, pressed power button on the remote. Looked at the TV screen a moment later, it is blank. Waited. Still blank. Waited some more. Finally hit the reset button. It comes back to life. Hmm. Starting watching a show. 12 minutes later, the picture freezes. Stays that way for a couple minutes then reboots. 2 minutes after the reboot and resumption of normal operation, it freezes again. I pick up the phone and call DN.

DN transfers me to the troubleshooting folks who have me go through the same troubleshooting steps I went through with the activation guy previously. It's working again. They tell me next time pull the power plug instead of reset button. I ask, after that, when I call back and it's still misbehaving, do I have to go through more troubleshooting or can it just be re-replaced? I'm assured I won't have to do any more troubleshooting. Meanwhile, I've lost 1/2 of two programs that would have recorded and well over an hour of time.

20 minutes or so later, the picture freezes but the sound continues. I pull the plug and reboot it. Leave the TV on while doing some work and e-mail. It's OK for 2+ hours, and then I start to watch a freshly DVR'd show. 2 minutes later, the screen turns solid bright green. Then solid dark green. A couple minutes later black and another reboot. I'm back on the phone to DN.

They transfer me again to the troubleshooting team. New guy wonders if I've been plugged in to the same power outlet all the time. I tell him it's plugged in on a UPS but that isn't good enough. Finally make my point by illustration that the previous (overheating) receiver was plugged into the same UPS outlet and never had this trouble.

Finally, he writes up an order to replace the replacement receiver and reactivates my original overheating receiver. And he volunteers a free month of Cinemax. It's barely compensation for my time and missed programs, but at least it's something.

How much do I wish I had left well enough alone and the sleeping dogs lie? Yeah, I know, worse to be out a receiver for a couple days when it finally toasted itself to death. But I knew this overall effort wasn't likely to be a walk in the park. It's a curse I've carried for many years!


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## chouseman

Update: The replacement for the replacement 722K has had no problems in the less than 2 weeks I've had it. 

On temperature, the metal case feels the same temperature as the former receiver when the former's fan wasn't running at high speed. The HDD average temp has been creeping up daily since I received it. When I first looked it was around 100F, today it's 120F, or 20 degrees gain in about 10 days. The max temp is 138F.

But so far no fan noise. I'll post again if that changes or the average temp exceeds 130F.


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## Stewart Vernon

Do keep a watch on it... but for the moment, those seem like more reasonable temps... and since the fan hasn't been running full-out like before, that seems to be a good sign as well.

How hot does it typically get inside your house? Just out of curiosity...

There will be some variance for all of us based on your environment... but your numbers now seem more reasonable. Let's hope they stay that way.


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## chouseman

> How hot does it typically get inside your house? Just out of curiosity...


It's in the basement where the average temp is around 68F.


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## P Smith

Tidbids to all suggestions:
- the "temp of HDD" what you see in Counters window are measured by a chip [LM75] near satellite tuners and it's mounted on on main PCB;
- only one fan inside;
- only one HDD inside.
Adding to that - that guy who designed fan/HDD holder, its shapes and position, had hard time to verify it and did very poor job, so instead of normal air flow - room temp air coming into box from right side, cooling components and pushing out by internal fan to left side - it's doing internal circulation of hot air by very inefficient way to trow small amount of hot air outside.
I did that analysis a couple yers ago, redesigned whole cooling part and implemented my idea with great result. You could find my posts and pictures about the variant. Unfortunately dish is a cheap comp and never would pay royalty to someone else's design.


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## chouseman

P Smith, none of that (poor cooling design) surprises me in the least. Thanks for the info.


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## chouseman

More data... about a week ago the fan came on, so I checked the HDD temp, and the average was 124F. I waited to see if the fan would go off, but it was still running after more than 3 hours. So I punched the reset button. After the reboot, the average temp was 123F. So maybe running the fan had some effect on the average.

Haven't heard the fan since, but the average temp now shows 132F; the low temp 86F. That low is much higher than the previous low, presumably that was the starting temp after all that fan running.

I imagine if I left the receiver unplugged for an hour, it would reduce the average temp a lot, but that average would still creep back to 130+.

Conclusions:

1. A HDD average temp in the 130-132 range, in the absence of other symptoms (such as lots of fan running) doesn't necessarily mean something is in trouble.

And either 2a or 2b:

2a. The fan control logic is dain-bramaged. I don't think the fan has ever turned off by itself without the system resetting. I believe the one time I heard the fan turn off without using the reset button, it was because of a daily update reboot.

2b. As has been suggested, the cooling design of the box is so bad that all that fan running does very little to reduce the temp of the sensor that started the fan running.

Any event, the jury is still out whether this 722K will repeat the behavior of the original 722K. Remember that my regular fan running on the original didn't start until around 3 months of usage, and I've had this unit for less than 2 months.

I'll post again when there's a signficant development.


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## Jim5506

Dish replaced my 722k about a week ago due to a failed hard drive.

My temp readings are:

HDD High Temp: 116
HDD Low Temp: 77
HDD Average Temp:104

My unit sets on top of the TV cabinet with a Sony PS3 on top of it and a stacked Toshiba HD-DVD player and Sony Surround sound 2 1/2 inches to the right of it.

Part of the reason for the low temps is the unit has only been in service 1 week, but I attribute most of the credit to my "HomeTheaterCooling.com" fan ($50) that pulls warm air out of the left side of the unit 24/7/365.

I bought this fan in 2006 for my first 622 and it has been running non-stop for 5 years.

I have had two hard drive failures in those 5 years, one on a 622 and then one last week on my 722k, but the fan does keep the interior of the 722k cooler than the non dynamically cooled reports seen here.

Additionally, the fan blows on my external hard drive to help keep it cool.

Ambient room temperature has been about 76 degrees over the last week.


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## P Smith

Jim, did you check my second version of cooling the boxes ? External enclosure for *internal *drive ? 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=186999


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## chouseman

Hmm, got me thinking about velcroing a small computer fan over the left side vents to pull air through it. It seems silly we should have to go to these measures to reduce both our trouble and Dish's costs though.

Anyone know if there's enough power on the USB port of the 722K to run a 40mm fan like you'd find on a video card?


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## P Smith

Spec is 5VDC 0.5A max.


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## chouseman

P Smith said:


> Spec is 5VDC 0.5A max.


Should be plenty for a small fan that's running slower than usual in order to be silent... Thanks!


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## peano

My internal fan was noisy so I unhooked it and bought this:

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1295&ID=1801

I set it next to the vents on the left of the receiver to constantly pull air through. I leave it at the lowest speed and it is pretty quiet.


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## P Smith

Adding to that - internal fan is useless and worst for the DVR because it stirring hot air inside and push out very little if not running at full revving speed.


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## TulsaOK

My 722k fan never runs at full speed even on a reboot.


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## P Smith

If other owners of the 722k with same FW version will not confirm that, it's time to replace your DVR.


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## peano

My 722k fan never ran at full speed like a 722/622 either. I think that is normal for the k.


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## chouseman

This will probably be my last report on the 722k overheating problem. I found a great solution, but first the back story.

I used electrical tape to attach an 80mm computer fan so it pulled air from the left side vents. Did some soldering to connect the fan to a USB plug and the 12V fan was slow and silent on USB 5V. This worked well - in about a week, the average HDD temp dropped from 132 to 127. But attaching the fan in a more permanent way, without damaging the case, was a problem. While looking for attachment points, I noticed the bottom of the receiver was still quite warm (the receiver was properly sitting on its feet on an otherwise cold flat surface).

That heat buildup on the bottom made me think of a laptop - and I had a spare Antec laptop cooler with dual fans. This cooler fit perfectly under the receiver's feet, and came with a USB cable for power. But would it work? 5 days later the average HDD temp is now 125 and I expect it to keep falling. BTW this cooler has 2 speeds and it's been running on the low speed so it's unnoticeable at any distance.

Laptop coolers can frequently be found for around $10. So there's a cheap and easy fix that doesn't stand out or look goofy, and leaves the receiver completely untouched. Wish I had tried this on my original receiver.


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## P Smith

The design of 622/722 is not support cooling from bottom - all 'heaters': chips 7038, 2x7411, a drive, power supply's components radiate heat from PCB to a hood, the PCB is blocking cooling from outside bottom as there is air gap between metal box and PCB - perhaps you know how double glass window working. 
The design been flawed from beginning.
I did analysis and made new design what work 100%: a 80 mm fan located on internal side of a cover ( there could be one big round hole with a grill or many small holes); it's pushing ambient air directly to CPU/MPEG decoders, HDD and power supply's components, the warm air pushing to both sides (original fan disabled and could be removed); the new fan powered by 3.3V or 5V what create adequate airflow and silent operation.
Picture posted a few years ago. Perhaps E* don't want pay royalty for my new design .


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## chouseman

P Smith said:


> The design of 622/722 is not support cooling from bottom


Do the 622/722 cases have ventilation slots in the bottom? The 722K does. Since there was a lot of heat felt on the bottom, it only made sense to remove that heat with a laptop cooler, and the results would follow.


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## P Smith

Well, the 'heat' is just warm metal case, what warmed up by hot air inside the box ( remember what physical characteristic of steel in term of heat spreading ).

Cooling the case from bottom would have very little effect or no effect whatsoever on HDD or CPU or PS.

"ventilation slots" on bottom is just generic attempt to cool down bottom side of PCB, while main source of the heat on other side and up - again: HDD, CPU, PS.


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## chouseman

P Smith said:


> "ventilation slots" on bottom is just generic attempt to cool down bottom side of PCB, while main source of the head on other side and up - again: HDD, CPU, PS.


Wow, somebody sure is sensitive to someone else having found a different solution that works.

I've certainly proved that removing heat from the bottom has an effect on the HDD temperature sensor if nothing else. And simple thermodynamics recognizes that, no matter where or how heat is removed from a system, removing heat makes the system colder. If the PCB is hot, and I cool it down from the bottom, there's that much less heat radiated off the top of the PCB and warming up the case.

So until you try this and have facts to present, why not just admit that all your rebuttal is just conjecture and opinion. Whereas I waited to see what the results would be and then posted the results.

I've never said this is as perfect as your solution where the receiver is altered. If you own your own receiver, you can do anything you want. For those of us leasing or not wanting to re-engineer the interior cooling system, a laptop cooler is an easy and cheap option.


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## P Smith

Poor, ineffective way. If you like it - use it. But don't pretend it's done correctly.

As to thermodynamics ... try to count 6 layers PCB termo-resistance for start. Next try to get a knowledge where is the temperature sensor located.

Don't worry, I'm not jealous or 'your' solution - seen that for last few years. You are is not the inventor.


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## chouseman

P Smith said:


> As to thermodynamics ... try to count 6 layers PCB termo-resistance for start. Next try to get a knowledge where is the temperature sensor located.


According to you, the sensor is on the other side of those 6 layers of "termo-resistance" from where I'm cooling the system. So if the "termo-resistance" is so great, it hasn't stopped the sensor from reporting an average that's 7 degrees less than when there was no cooling, and still falling.

And the top of the metal case, which was warm to very warm in the past, now ranges from cold to lukewarm. Oh, but my solution can't be making any difference to the ambient inside the case, can it? Not with all those layers of "termo-resistance" in the way.

I don't really care whether I'm the inventor or not, unlike those who repeatedly complain about not getting royalties. I just wish someone had suggested this idea when I started the topic, in which case I'd probably still have my original receiver.

So, keep 'em coming. I will continue to defend this idea as "worth a try" until you're too tired to come up with a new bunch of non-factual conjectures.


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## klang

The 612 I have in the equipment closet for my theater runs cooler when I have it sitting on disks to keep it about an extra 1/2" above the shelf. The extra airflow underneath can help.


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## saberfly

P Smith said:


> Poor, ineffective way. If you like it - use it. But don't pretend it's done correctly.
> 
> As to thermodynamics ... try to count 6 layers PCB termo-resistance for start. Next try to get a knowledge where is the temperature sensor located.
> 
> Don't worry, I'm not jealous or 'your' solution - seen that for last few years. You are is not the inventor.


Dont worry chouseman, theres a reason he has 10,800 posts. No one can stand listening to him in the real world.


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## chouseman

saberfly said:


> Dont worry chouseman, theres a reason he has 10,800 posts. No one can stand listening to him in the real world.


LOL! In fairness, he has been around since nearly the beginning and I wouldn't criticize someone for posting a lot to be helpful, but if this topic is any example, the helpful/argumentative ratio needs to improve.

My HDD average temp reported yesterday at 123F. Still falling in the average means the real temp is lower than that by several degrees at least. Not bad for a poor ineffective solution.


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## TulsaOK

Come on, let's keep it on topic and not get personal.


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## saberfly

I dont know if this will help but my Onkyo surround receiver dosent have a fan at all and it got VERY hot. I mounted a fan on the top pulling air from the bottom out of the top. It works great. Never hardly gets above room temp now. I got a fan on Newegg that was ultra quiet and works beautifully.


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## parmm

Just wanted to thank you guys for this thread. My 722k's fan has been had the fan problem for some time not. Starts on high and does not shut off even when the DVR has been off overnight. Anyway I called Dish, and they did not seem to think there was a problem. Got transfered over to Tech Services and they also thought it was not a problem until we determined it affected the listening one hearing over the fan. Can hear this fan all the way across the living room even over the TV sound! They decided that was not right to have to put up with that. So thanks much!!! New receiver on the way.
Pat


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## chouseman

Hi parmm,

Did you try resetting the DVR to shut off the fan? Red pushbutton under the right-hand pop-open lid.

If that works, putting a laptop cooler under the DVR (or just raising it an extra inch to allow some airflow underneath) would probably eliminate the fan running altogether. For those keeping score, a laptop cooler reduced my average temperature reading to 109F (from 132). However, after some months of running 24x7 the laptop cooler has become noisy, so I'll be looking for a better one soon.

Meanwhile, hope your first replacement DVR is less trouble than mine was.


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