# 722/622 4.49 Software Release (Tivo Lawsuit Code?)...



## space86 (May 4, 2007)

coming this month because of TiVo Lawsuit ?


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## space86 (May 4, 2007)

When was 4.48 Released ?


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## bflatmajor (Sep 8, 2006)

Depending on the amount of neutering that will be done to the 622, FIOS here I come.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

space86 said:


> coming this month because of TiVo Lawsuit ?


were did you hear of the 4.49 release???


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

space86 said:


> When was 4.48 Released ?


December last year.


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

space86 said:


> coming this month because of TiVo Lawsuit ?


I may be wrong, but I would think DISH has had more than ample time, and has probably already removed any of the alleged patent infringed TiVo Coding from the 622/722.
IMO, I don't believe any noticable changes, related to the TiVo suit will be seen by subscribers....FWIW


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## lkrupp (Apr 6, 2007)

space86 said:


> coming this month because of TiVo Lawsuit ?


As is the case with most of these infringement cases the end result will be Dish paying TiVo a lump sum licensing fee to continue using the disputed technologies. And that's IF TiVo's case has any merit, which no one knows at the moment. In any case it'll be at least a year or more before the parties start serious negotiations. So chill out already


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## theoak (Nov 5, 2007)

It is my understanding that we already have the "corrected" non-offending software installed as per Dish's response:



> "We are pleased the Federal Circuit found for us on Tivo's hardware claims, but are disappointed in the Federal Circuit's decision on the software claims. The decision, however, will have no effect on our current or future customers because EchoStar's engineers have developed and deployed 'next-generation' DVR software to our customers' DVRs. This improved software is fully operational, has been automatically downloaded to current customers, and does not infringe the Tivo patent at issue in the Federal Circuit's ruling.
> 
> All DISH Network customers can continue to use their DVRs without any interruption or changes to the award-winning DVR features and services provided by DISH Network.
> 
> We intend to appeal the Federal Circuit's ruling affirming the $94 million jury verdict."


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

theoak said:


> It is my understanding that we already have the "corrected" non-offending software installed as per Dish's response:


This is my understanding as well.


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## fredp (Jun 2, 2007)

Perhaps the Tech chat Monday at 9PM will have some info about 4.49.


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## dreslism (Nov 14, 2006)

fredp said:


> Perhaps the Tech chat Monday at 9PM will have some info about 4.49.


Where is the tech chat at?

9PM what time zone?

Thanks


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dreslism said:


> Where is the tech chat at?
> 
> 9PM what time zone?
> 
> Thanks


9PM EST on channel 101.


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## dreslism (Nov 14, 2006)

So I missed the chat.

Any mention of 4.49?

Thanks,

Scott


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## Ken Green (Oct 6, 2005)

dreslism said:


> So I missed the chat.
> 
> Any mention of 4.49?
> 
> ...


Nope
Rob's Recap *HERE*


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

To be fair they did mentioned a software release in the spring sometime. Will it be the 4.49 or the 5.55 they did not say.


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

They are not planning to make any 'visable' changes with the 622 or 722. Clearly the press release indicates that they have already moved the offending code. Its a bummer that Tivo thinks they have a patent on recording TV .. which I thought the VHS did.. and is NOT a new idea.. but apparently the court disagrees with that.

I'm sure our DISH guys on this forum will give us a heads up to turn off the autoupdate if its comming down the pipe, or in development... Right? I think thats highly unlikely anyhow. Dish knows they turn off the DVR or diminish functionality they are toast.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

The ViP series of receivers was not included in the original lawsuit... if you remember a while back the NON-ViP DVR's had their software code matched to the current ViP name-based recording.

My guess is that this is what Dish was talking about when they said they had already made the software changes and were no longer infringing. If Tivo wants to shut down the ViP receivers they will either have to petition the court to say they are the same as the previous models... or they will have to start another lawsuit to prove that the ViP receivers also are infringing.

This battle is far from over, and nothing will be changing to the VIP receivers any time soon.


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## MarcusInMD (Jan 7, 2005)

grooves12 said:


> *The ViP series of receivers was not included in the original lawsuit*... if you remember a while back the NON-ViP DVR's had their software code matched to the current ViP name-based recording.
> 
> My guess is that this is what Dish was talking about when they said they had already made the software changes and were no longer infringing. If Tivo wants to shut down the ViP receivers they will either have to petition the court to say they are the same as the previous models... or they will have to start another lawsuit to prove that the ViP receivers also are infringing.
> 
> This battle is far from over, and nothing will be changing to the VIP receivers any time soon.


WRONG.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well not sure what you mean by "WRONG" marcus... One thing I know grooves post is inaccurate is software code matching. Yes NBR was ported to the 5XX series but those code bases I am sure are very different in nature and it is not a code match but a port of this feature. 

As for the VIPs being included. Hmmm I have not been following the law suite in general for personal reasons. Is L4.49 an answer to the lawsuit.... Hard to say but my guess given the press release as others have said it appears the work was done and is already in place. 

I just re-read the OPs post and moved the thread out of the 722 support forums since this is more of a general question as to does L4.49 add code to address the pending lawsuit. I update the thread title to be more descriptive of what the thread is about.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

MarcusInMD said:


> WRONG.


First of all a post like this is a waste of time as you are offering nothing in return, so I souldn't even bother responding to it. At least offer why you think it is wrong, or some references...

But, here I will go ahead and link to you to the answer.

http://investor.tivo.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=207787



> Court Judge David Folsom granted TiVo's motion for permanent injunction to prevent EchoStar Communications Corp. (Nasdaq: DISH; "ECC") from making, using, offering for sale or selling in the United States their DVR products at issue in the case (DP-501, DP-508, DP-510, DP-721, DP-921, DP-522, DP-625, DP-942, and all EchoStar DVRs that are not more than colorably different from any of these products).


Do you see any VIP models listed there?? Do you have any reference that Tivo ever motioned to get the Vip receivers added to the list of infringing products??

They were never part of the lawsuit, and while Tivo can attempt to argue that they are still violating their patents, it would require more court motions and perhaps a complete new trial, because the Vip receivers are a lot more than just "colorably different."


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Well not sure what you mean by "WRONG" marcus... One thing I know grooves post is inaccurate is software code matching. Yes NBR was ported to the 5XX series but those code bases I am sure are very different in nature and it is not a code match but a port of this feature.


I know the code isn't an exact match... however, I am just speculating that this move is likely the one that Dish is talking about when they say that changes were already made to the recording system so that they no longer violate Tivo's patents.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I believe the suit was filed before they knew about the 622 and 722. If they infringe on the "Time Warp" patent then they are included. It would be nice to have this finalized so that I will know if it will affect the number of installs I do.


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## Presence (Mar 14, 2004)

How is this "Dish Network™ High Definition Discussion" discussion, again?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Discussing the theoretical 4.49 release ... it certainly doesn't belong in the support forum where people might confuse it for an announcement of fact.

"Tivo free" code (at least, what E* considers Tivo free) is already out there, per the press release quoted above. If there is a 4.49 release it won't be for "Tivo code" ... it will be for other things.


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## bartendress (Oct 8, 2007)

MarcusInMD said:


> WRONG.


That's it.

We can close the thread.

Perry Mason has spoken... with insight and detail a plenty.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

There a whole sticky thread on the Tivo Lawsuit subject at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=118189 which is a whole lot more "informed" on the debate about the code.


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## JohnL (Apr 1, 2002)

space86 said:


> coming this month because of TiVo Lawsuit ?


Space,

Dish changed the Firmware in all their DVR's months ago so that it no longer infringes on Tivos patent.

Any changes will be for Bug Fixes or upgraded features. One of the biggest firmware updates coming will bring the addition of User created Folders. If you have a 622/722 you also will get Folders for external hard Drives. Coming soon is also the ability to connect to your DVR over the internet to set timers.

John


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

JohnL said:


> Space,
> 
> Dish changed the Firmware in all their DVR's months ago so that it no longer infringes on Tivos patent.
> 
> ...


Changed the firmware on ALL their DVR's? I would think they would have informed the court if they have done that to keep the penalty amount from increasing daily.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Badger said:


> Changed the firmware on ALL their DVR's? I would think they would have informed the court if they have done that to keep the penalty amount from increasing daily.


Firstly, who says they didn't?

Secondly, while fighting the lawsuit for infringement you wouldn't admit to changing the software as that would be admission of guilt. Instead, you would change the software and document when this happened so that IF you lose the appeal, you can go back to the court and show that you did in fact change the code.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

And then TiVo will claim that the new code infringes and it all goes back to more discovery, motions filed, court dates, etc... could take a couple more years for that issue to be settled


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yep. A plan comes together.


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

By the time it comes to an end TIVO could be out of business


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yep. A plan comes together.


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

Not sure why this discussion is in this particular forum, but, FWIW, this is on the Tech Portal today:

*2/20/2007: 1003* *Software Version L4.49 for ViP 622 DVR*

Effective *Thursday, February 21st*, Engineering plans to spool a PARTIAL PHASE of software version *L4.49* for the *ViP 622 DVR* receiver. This is primarily a non-forced maintenance release available at *ALL* satellite locations. 
At this time *L4.48 and L4.49* will be the valid software versions for the *ViP 622 DVR*.

Talk among yourselves..........! :grin:

Brad


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

It is in this forum because the discussion is not L4.49... It is really about adding Tivo lawsuit changes and are they included in L4.49 or are they already in the code base...
As soon as this is reported in the wild we will have a thread in the support forum for L4.49 discussions.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

grooves12 said:


> First of all a post like this is a waste of time as you are offering nothing in return, so I souldn't even bother responding to it. At least offer why you think it is wrong, or some references...
> 
> But, here I will go ahead and link to you to the answer.
> 
> ...


Actually, ViP622 is marketing name; the model is DP-962.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Actually, ViP622 is marketing name; the model is DP-962.


More like the development code name ... but the DP-962 isn't listed in the lawsuit either.


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## Badger (Jan 31, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Firstly, who says they didn't?
> 
> Secondly, while fighting the lawsuit for infringement you wouldn't admit to changing the software as that would be admission of guilt. Instead, you would change the software and document when this happened so that IF you lose the appeal, you can go back to the court and show that you did in fact change the code.


But didn't E* make a statement recently that they have changed the software? If they did notify the court wouldn't that be in the court records that James Long and others keep up to date on? Just asking questions!


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## sotti (Jan 6, 2006)

Bradtothebone said:


> Not sure why this discussion is in this particular forum, but, FWIW, this is on the Tech Portal today:
> 
> *2/20/2007: 1003* *Software Version L4.49 for ViP 622 DVR*
> 
> ...


Any release notes on said 4.49 update?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

sotti said:


> Any release notes on said 4.49 update?


Yes, check out this thread for the discussion, as well as the link to the release notes: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=120492


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## SingleAction (Apr 29, 2005)

clarkbaker said:


> They are not planning to make any 'visable' changes with the 622 or 722. Clearly the press release indicates that they have already moved the offending code. Its a bummer that Tivo thinks they have a patent on recording TV .. which I thought the VHS did.. and is NOT a new idea.. but apparently the court disagrees with that.
> 
> I'm sure our DISH guys on this forum will give us a heads up to turn off the autoupdate if its comming down the pipe, or in development... Right? I think thats highly unlikely anyhow. Dish knows they turn off the DVR or diminish functionality they are toast.


Diminish functionality! They all ready have, I still have 4.48, and suffer daily lock ups, reboots, and when I can watch a show, and try to FF or RW, I don't have control. It doesn't go back or fourth a few seconds, but minutes!

I hope that the 4.49 release will at lease restore my vip622 back to the way it was before 4.48


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

is it normal i haven't received this update?


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Yes, uprades are rolled out in stages. It normally takes 2 or 3 weeks for me to get the newest updates.


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

HobbyTalk said:


> Yes, uprades are rolled out in stages. It normally takes 2 or 3 weeks for me to get the newest updates.


:biggthump thank you


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## UGAChance (May 18, 2007)

> Changed the firmware on ALL their DVR's? I would think they would have informed the court if they have done that to keep the penalty amount from increasing daily.


Yes... they did.

Before the time before the last appeal the award money was put into an account that gained interest. It was not growing because DISH was still infringing. The code was changed way before the second to last court appeal... a year to two years ago.

So, you guys can quit worrying about TIVO code being released... you've had it for a long time.


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

i got the update this morning at 5:30.


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## Dawgfan (Jan 23, 2006)

Our 622 was downloading and updating at 5:20 this morning.


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

i noticed the same thing James said about the favorites. haven't noticed anything else. do any of you thing that this update has anything to do with the new satellite launch or some software issues the vip622 had?:disk:


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

is it normal to have this update but yet my 211 hasn't received the l436 update?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

rey_1178 said:


> is it normal to have this update but yet my 211 hasn't received the l436 update?


No, that's wrong thread to post your question.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Two different receivers ... DISH targets receivers by serial number (and other variables), not account.

(BTW: L4.35 and L4.36 are still valid software for the 211.)


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## rey_1178 (Dec 12, 2007)

thanks james


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