# DBSTalk Exclusive - First Look at Upcoming 721 L1.13 Software!



## Scott Greczkowski

DBSTalk has done it again! Thanks to the 721 Team at Echostar, we are proud to bring you the first exclusive look at the next big software update for Dish Network PVR 721 Receiver!

_Please understand that this software is currently in its ALPHA Stage, some things listed here may look different and may or may not make it into the final release._

This version which is currently known as L1.10 adds a few new features and fixes a few problems! This version even includes two of the features that members of DBSTalk.COM voted for!

*What's new?*

*New Dish 721 Interactive Weather!*









No folks this is not the OpenTV weather you are use to on your OpenTV receivers (Such as the 301 and 501) This new weather feature is fast and it works well!

Here is a screen Shot for DBSTalk.COM Founder Chris Blount









You setup the weather by selecting the Satate and Cities you want. (As shown below.)










Another new feature that you the users of DBSTalk.COM voted for was the *Triple Timer Conflict Screen*. With L1.07 and before if you setup two timers and tried adding a third you would get a conflict message, but it wouldn't let you choose which program you did not want to record, that is fixed with the screen shown below!










Another new feature which was suggested here at DBSTalk.COM was improving the recording from buffer feature.

Let say you just watched a show and thought to yourself you want to record it so you can watch it again later, with the current software you need to rewind to the beginning of the show, then press record then fast forward to the end and press stop.

With L1.10 if you want to save the show you just watched you press RECORD. A new screen pops up (shown below)










Now select "More Options" which will bring up a screen as shown below...










You notice there is a new item which in the picture shows Beginning of Event is not available, however if you started watching the show from the beginning it would read "Start at beginning of current event" by selecting this the 721 records the entire show for you from the buffer without you having to find the start of the show yourself.

Up Next we talk about the fixes on the 721 in the new software revision L1.10!


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## Scott Greczkowski

Longtime 721 owners have seen the PVR 721 become a better machine over time, the 721 team has taken pride in being able to fix many of the problems owners have experienced.

L1.10 contains a few fixes that are sure to make many 721 owners happy!

L1.10 contains the following fixes

- New MPEG Decoder which fixes the audio sync and stutter problem people would randomly have.

- Audio Channel from 61.5 will now play correctly on the 721 (This is good news for those of you with Sky Angel or who subscribe to foreign audio services!)

- Correct Show Title Shown in PVR Recording. With the older software if you started you recording a min or more early occasionally the PVR recording name would be that of the show which was just ending, now the correct program title for your show will be displayed

- The 65 Timer bug is gone. With older software if you scheduled more the 65 shows to record your 721 would crash or not let you into the PVR screen, this is now fixed (No I don't know how many timers you can set now)

- Cancel Check Switch. As you may know doing a check switch on a 721 is a long slow process when you are checking your signal strengths it is easy to do a check switch. with older software you could not cancel your check switch (and if you did you would loose your switch matrix and have to do another check switch to fix things) with L1.10 you can press cancel and you prior check switch config will be retained (as shown below)










The images and descriptions we have shown you above have come from a ALPHA version of the L1.10 software things might change and look slightly different when L1.10 is officially released There is no set release date for L1.10 at this time.

As always your thoughts and suggestions on the 721 are encouraged! Remember most of the fixes and new features here came in part because you our DBSTalk.COM members requested them!

Thanks go out to the 721 team for making all of this possible! Echostar is working hard to bring you a world class product and their effort on the 721 shows their commitment into making the 721 a true world class product!


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## jerryyyyy

I notice the Sun screen. Where does that come from? Something you were watching? If they ever get the keyboard etc installed they could load a copy of OpenOffice on it and we could all be wordprocessing on our screens.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Yeah the Sun Screen was from a TV commercial that was airing when I grabbed the pic. I will have to reshoot that one as it is confusing. 

Comments or suggestions about anything above would be appreciated.


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## Bill R

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _*
> - Audio Channel from 61.5 will now play correctly on the 721 (This is good news for those of you with Sky Angel or who subscribe to foreign audio services!) *


Thanks for all the information Scott. I had talked to three different people about the 61.5 Sky Angel audio problem and just this afternoon did I finally get someone at DISH that knew about that problem.

He actually had access to a 721 and said that he now has L1.10 on it and it did fix that problem (and a few others).

The software for the 721 seems to be coming along nicely. I hope that they can lower the price so that a lot more people can afford one.


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## bfennema

I just hope they fix the remaining missed timer bugs =]


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## marshalk

Any idea if this will fix the "no information" bug in the guide for those with access to 119 only? Right now, we have to do a re-boot and then prey to get just the short three day guide. Of course the real solution would be to put the EPG on 119 as well as 110.


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## Scott Greczkowski

> _Originally posted by bfennema _
> *I just hope they fix the remaining missed timer bugs =] *


I have not had any missed timers since L1.05 and I don't know of anyone who has had them since then eaither.

If your 721 misses a recording please post a message here with all the details of the missed recording, (The time, the date, the channel, the shows name, the type of timer (daily, weekly, M-F etc) also make note of the weather in your area.

With this info the 721 team can see if there was something wrong with the program guide data which may have made your 721 miss the recording (or other factors).

I have done hundreds of recordings the past few months and have not missed one.


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## FlyingDiver

This is great. The only thing that really annoys me that's not on this list is that the PVR screen defaults to "Start Over", even when the show status is "Stopped". That's an easy fix, I would think.

joe


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## bfennema

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *
> 
> I have not had any missed timers since L1.05 and I don't know of anyone who has had them since then eaither.
> 
> If your 721 misses a recording please post a message here with all the details of the missed recording, (The time, the date, the channel, the shows name, the type of timer (daily, weekly, M-F etc) also make note of the weather in your area.
> 
> With this info the 721 team can see if there was something wrong with the program guide data which may have made your 721 miss the recording (or other factors).
> 
> I have done hundreds of recordings the past few months and have not missed one. *


Ok.. since I've had it occur twice on version 109..

1st: Joe Millionare, San Francisco FOX, this past Monday (Feb 3rd) @9pm. The weather was fine (It's California, the weather is always fine =)), but I do get what I jokingly call plane fade (the signal can break up for a second when a plane flies overhead occasionally) =]. I recorded SF WB from 8-9pm, and from 9-10pm, and they were fine. The Joe Millionare recording just didn't exist. I tape CBS from 10-11pm, and it taped fine as well. This recording worked just fine the week before. This is a weekly timer.

2nd: American Idol, San Francisco FOX, Wed January 29th @8:30pm. 70s show taped fine before it from 8:00-8:30, and I was recording the WB from 8-9, and 9-10. I actually happened to get home at 8:45 or so, and noticed it wasn't recording. I tried to delete the timer (so I could manually record to the end) but I wasn't able to, as it said the timer was in use. I finally changed the timer start time to after the current time, and then I was able to delete it. This was either a weekly, or a single shot timer.. don't remember, and since I had to deleted it, I can't go back and check =)

In general, all my timers are either weekly, or single shot... the weekly are usually set to protected (ever since every single one of my unprotected recordings were deleted in a prior software release)

Always seems to happen when the other tuner is busy, but using both tuners at the same time is the whole point of the 721 =]


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## EvanS

I LOVE the way that triple-timer-conflict screen is formatted - looks to make it really simple to see what's what.

Now adding "skip once" for a conflicting timer instead of having to delete...that would really help


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## Scott Greczkowski

Evan good suggestion!


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## Chaos

Very cool stuff. Now give me my 129 locals and I'll be completely happy with the 721.


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## makman

I like the new record feature for the program you are watching. I wonder if it records from when you press the button, or everything in the buffer? What happens if you start a show 2 minutes late? Do you have to rewind to record the whole thing, since it sounds as though the record from the beginning would be grayed.

Mitch


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## Scott Greczkowski

Mitch if you start a show 2 minutes late you would have to rewind. I am hoping it will pull whatever is in your buffer when it officially released.


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## Guest

I have held off switching to satellite for years because I really make use of the PIP feature on my Sony TV. Some of the features I think the PVR is still missing relative to my TV are.

1. Ability to change channels of the PIP window
2. Ability to select audio from main or PIP window
3. Display both the main and PIP window channel on screen (in different colors) and also display which video source is providing the audio (Sony puts a musical note symbol next to the channel number)
4. Sony also has a freeze funtion for the PIP window, it's not that useful because the picture is so small. However given than the 721 receives both its inputs digitally, it should be able to freeze the main picture as well.

When the 721 pauses live TV does the picture remain up on the screen?

Any news on whether Echoster is planning these features for future software upgrades? If they did I would go out and buy one and never look back (to cable)

Paul


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## Jacob S

When you are watching a show for a period of time then decide that you want to record only part of it, can you rewind back to the place you want to start the recording from then press record to start from there or will it record the whole thing anyways? I am guessing you can do this because if you couldn't then a shortcut to recording everything in the buffer would be just to skip back then press record.

They need a feature to edit out the content on the recordings you do not want, this would save hard drive space and commercials could be edited out by the customer. 

I think having an edit option, name based recording, and folders to organize your shows would be three great features to really improve this unit if they had those.


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## JimW396

All the mentioned new features and fixes are great but, as a post above stated, they should fix the problem concerning the EPG created by L1.09 for subscribers that can only see 119. L1.09 has caused the 3 day EPG to not download unless you "Reset" the unit everyday.
Also, placing the 7 day EPG on 119 would permit those of us who can only see 119 to have the same "features",that we pay for, be the same as those who can see 110 and 119.

Thanks for the info Scott.

Jim


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## UpOnTheMountain

Under the more options, could they add yet another one that allows "save entire buffer" ? This would be a quick way to make sure you get as much of what you wanted as possible.
They are probably concerned about allowing the "beginning of the event" to get an incomplete show due to the general consumer not understanding that the buffer may not include the beginning of the show.
But ... if the option were separate ... it seams that it would be less confusing ... and even "look" more feature rich.


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## UpOnTheMountain

I must SHOUT out loud my agreement with EvanS ...

A "skip this time" option is the very specific thing missing on the 721 (and 501) that prevents it from feeling feature complete. (in regards to conflict management, and after fixing the three way timer issue ... : -) )

Please stress to the 721 team that this is a very important thing to those of us who try to fully use E's PVRs.

but other than that ...

kudos on the presentation of the timer conflict !!! most excellently done !!!

I'm guessing that while in the screen you would roughly do the following ...
1. use up and down arrows to highlight each event for review and consideration.
2. press select to edit the timer
3. while in the edit a new flag has been added to "skip once" 
4. on close of the edit dialog the conflict is checked and the conflict management screen goes away if all is well or re-displays if still an issue.


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## Jason

All of these features are great but until they fix the "Acquiring Signal" problem that many of us have, I will still be an unsatisfied customer!

These features don't mean anything to me when just about every recorded program has pixellating and sound skipping problems for a few seconds each time it occurs. 

FACT: THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE DETROIT LOCALS SIGNAL!

It is obvious that Dish Network doesn't want to address this problem either. I sent a message to the CEO about a week ago and never even got a reply from them!


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## djlong

Looks like I'm going the 721 route when my DP '3 years' is up..

Question - I've heard so much about the lack of 'named timers' like on the DP. Is there a FAQ with pics somewhere that has what the screens look like for looking at your timers and programs available? (The "PTV" main screen on a DP)

Thanks...


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## TomCat

A stutter fix is great news (if it indeed is fixed). I have been using only one tuner for recording for many weeks now to prevent bad recordings from the second input (not that easy during sweeps). Now if they just could fix the stutter on the 50X which has cropped up in the last few weeks.

a "Skip this time only" feature for repeating timers would be most welcome, a feature every PVR should have but few do.

My next request would be "preferences", in other words, some way to globally set how programs would be recorded. currently I have to turn off "start 1 min. early" and "end 3 minutes late", and turn on "protect" for every recording I set, which is a royal pain. The E* engineers in their arrogance assume that everyone always wants to not protect, start early, and end late. Well, we don't. If these and other settings could be set as user preferences globally, that would be a great ergonomic improvement to a great (but ergonomically challenged) PVR. Thanks in advance, guys.


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## Scott Greczkowski

DJlong I believe there are pictures of the timer screens at http://www.dbstalk.com/review

Next time I have the 721 hooked up to the video capture card I will try to capture the screens again.


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## bunkers

Looks good, but please add the "Skip this time only" feature.

ALso, when pressing record on a show you have already been watching and then getting a menu where you have to choose "more options" seems un-necessary. Just take us into the more options screen to start with and default it to the "till end of show option" and if we press enter again, its done. That would be more like the 5xx PVR and would eliminate an un-necessary screen.


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## sampatterson

I hope, truly hope, that the 921 software will be based 100% on all the work they are doing on the 721. This should make the 921 very stable when it comes out if they can use the same software.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Sam, from the screen shots I have seen from the 921, they look identical. So hopefully the software is the same (just different MPEG drivers to handle the MPEG stream)

I am looking forward to replacing my Dish 6000 with a 921 as soon as I can get my hands on one.


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## makman

Any idea when the new software will be available?

Mitch


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## Scott Greczkowski

No dates have been mentioned. I would not expect it until the end of the month or later on in March.


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## MAllen

Scott,

Do you know if this software release will correct the Caller ID issues?? I have had my 721 since last July and the Caller ID funciton has been flaky since then. The 1.07 software seemed to allow the caller ID function to work the best. Sometimes the caller ID works and other times NO JOY, no rhyme or reason that I can figure. The caller ID works flawlessly on my 5000's.


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## Swampthing

Here's a question that has kept me away from the 721 thus far: Will it ever have "event-based" recordings ala Dishplayer, or is it stuck in "time-based" recording mode? Event-based recording has become incredibly essential feature for all those shows that keep switching time slots! For example, I loved when ANGEL switched from Sundays to Wednesdays, and my Dishplayer caught the change, automatically switched the time normally scheduled to record ANGEL, and I didn't even have to touch the timer!


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## FrankD1

Scott-

I know you explicitly state that 1.10 is currently alpha software, but how buggy is it? I guess I'm trying to set my expectations for a release date... the elimination of the stutters and synching issues would push the 721 (in my eyes) into a level where's I'd be comfortable recommending it to friends, and possibly buying a unit for my folks.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Frank, out of the interest of fairness to Echostar because the software is in a non release version I will not report bugs publicly (if there are any) with the software, however once a version hits the streets publicly then it's fair game. 

It would be pointless for me to post the bugs here anyways because when it is released the bugs should not be there. 

I have been VERY comfortable recommending the 721 to folks since version L1.0 was released, it is a fine product.


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## Bill D

This is great that Dish has gone ahead and sent Scott the alpha ver to check out. Glad the weather is there and that it is quick (does it download to the hardrive every XX minutes ??)

I also agree the triple timer conflict is a great addition, but it does need a skip once on whatever timer you kill..

And the recording addition, should just bring up all options, not additional button presses to get to options. Default, is o.k. then arrowing done to whatever. Start from beginning should be start from beginning of buffer, so that tells everyone, it may be the start of the show, may not be, but chnaces are if you are watching you tuned into that channel and know excatly where you started.. 
Otherwise great news, the 721 is really shaping up..
thanks Scott !!


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## Jacob S

I did not know that the dishplayer had name based recordings that adjusts to events that change time automatically.


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## Swampthing

Jacob... AFAIK, it's the only Dish receiver that has this feature. It's called "Record Each Time" on the DP menu. Also worked well during SURVIVOR when they would shift the time back and forth between Wednesdays and Thursdays. Even catches both runnings when they decide to run the show twice a week. Right now it works just fine for AMERICAN IDOL, another timeslot switcher and multiple day program. Timers just readjust on their own.

I think the only other PVR that has event-based recording right now is TIVO.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Actually Tivo, Replay and UltimteTV (Which is basically the same code as the Dishplayer) are the ones with names based recording.

As state elsewhere, names based recording is not something we will see on a Dish PVR any time in the near future. (Remember the Dishplayer was a MICRSOFT software product)

There are other threads going on about the name based debate here on DBSTalk please continue this talk there. This thread is to talk about the upcoming upgrade.

Thanks


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## BobMurdoch

> _Originally posted by MAllen _
> *Scott,
> 
> Do you know if this software release will correct the Caller ID issues?? I have had my 721 since last July and the Caller ID funciton has been flaky since then. The 1.07 software seemed to allow the caller ID function to work the best. Sometimes the caller ID works and other times NO JOY, no rhyme or reason that I can figure. The caller ID works flawlessly on my 5000's. *


Do a smart card pull and let the unit reboot. Whenever the Caller ID flakes out, this cures it, although it's only happened twice to me.... both times after software upgrades.


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## Scott Greczkowski

There is a caller id fix on the new version (I guess on some units caller ID stops working after the receiver tried dialing out)

I checked my caller ID screen this morning, and it looks like it has been working great since the update!


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## EvanS

in addition to the "skip once" timer confilct resolution method I would also BEG for the management screen for each PVR event to default to RESUME if the event has already been started and stopped.
I am finally used to it going to "start over" but I still have to think about it more than I should....


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## Guest

Scott- Do you have any idea whether L110 may include discrete power on/off codes for the PVR721? As far as I know all of their other receivers, except for the Dishplayer, now have these codes.


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## Jacob S

Does this receiver or the 501, 508 even have the functionality to type in certain codes just like you do with the dishplayer to do certain things?


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## Bill R

Jacob,

As far as I know, the 501, 508, and 721 DO NOT have a page long list of reset and work-around codes (thank goodness). Satellite receivers should NOT have a big list of reset codes. All people want to do is watch TV and should not have to worry about "secret codes".


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## Scott Greczkowski

I think it would be funny if Dish hid a copy of Tommy Tuntones "Jenny - 867-5309" in MP3 form, and if you shut off the power on the 721 and typed in 8675309 on the remote a part of the song would play.

Gosh there are a bunch of them for the Dishplayer (many which are the same for the UltimateTV) besides 8675209, the was 522700, 411 and a bunch more that I can't remember at the moment.


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## Guest

I'm not talking about reset codes. I'm talking about two specific codes one of which turns the unit on regardless of whether it's currently off or on and the other of which turns the unit off regardless of whether it's off or on. These codes are used to program macros in learning remotes, such as the pronto, where a series of commands can be executed with the push of one button. An example would be to set everything so that the PVR721 can be watched. The macro could be programmed to turn on the TV, switch the TV to the proper video input, turn on the audio receiver, switch the audio receiver to the proper audio input and to finally turn on the satellite receiver. Discrete power codes are needed to ensure that the macro puts everything into the proper working state (e.g. on rather than off). Without discrete power codes the macro would have to utilize the regular power button which would turn off the PVR721 if it's already on.

Discrete power codes were added to nearly all Dish receivers in December except for the PVR721 and the DishPlayer. I'm hoping they will be added to the PVR721 soon. Does anyone know if this might be coming in the next software update? I don't believe this is an unusual request as many if not most pieces of consumer electronics equipment today have these codes.

Bob L


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## Scott Greczkowski

There are no descrete power codes on the 721 yet, I am sure they will come they were just added to most of the other Dish Network receivers.


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## Guest

Update-sent an email to tonight's Dish Technical Forum regarding the addition of discrete power codes to the PVR721. They said on air that the codes would be added in the next download which should be out in March. Scott-please post your observations, if possible, regarding the pre-release versions you will be seeing as to whether the discretes have indeed been added.

Bob L.


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## Jacob S

I want to add these codes to my website.


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## DmitriA

Scott, how stable is the software so far? Have you experienced any problems with it?


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## Guest

Scott,

Thanks for all of the great info... here's one request I haven't seen in a while...

It would really be great to have a "chain playback" screen which would allow you to check off the PVR events that you want played (and ultimately, if possible, to set the order of their playback... with a playback list, MOVE UP/MOVE DOWN options, and the like). This would be very very useful when archiving various series events to an 8-hour VCR tape. However, even chronological or unordered chain playback would be preferable to the current lack of chain playback ability.

A recent example... I recorded 16 of my favorite 30-minute Seinfeld episodes which I've been collecting on the PVR. When I went to archive them to tape, I had to set an alarm clock to alert me every 30 minutes to switch the PVR to play the next episode.

Since accumulating a locked "set" of a weekly or daily series over a long period of time is a great use of a 90-hour PVR, it seems that providing a mechanism for ease of archiving would be a logical next step.

Could you please forward this suggestion on to the development folks whenever its convenient.

Thanks again for all your efforts.


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## marshalk

Any word on the 119 only guide problem?


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## Jacob S

If they would allow this feature to be added to where you could play events in any order you wanted back to back just as you can with cd's, this would allow people to record to vcr tape what is on their hard drive to free up space.


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## Scott Greczkowski

> Could you please forward this suggestion on to the development folks whenever its convenient.


No need to forward it, you by posting your suggestions here are talking directly to the devlopment folks, believe it or not they read here daily.  (Same goes for DirecTV.)


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## Jacob S

It would be stupid of them not to read what we say about their product, this would help them improve things to keep customers satisfied and get ideas on how to gain more customers and find out everything that is going on and customer's opinions.


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## Greg Haynes

Dish if your reading this keep up the great work. I know there are some bugs with the 721 but you continue to keep squashing them all plus giving us new features.

Just wanted to give a quick thanks to everyone that is making the 721 the best that it can be.


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## Jacob S

I think they are doing a better job at seeing what we want in new features for the pvr products in particular and trying to do what they can do.


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## ScottE

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Evan good suggestion! *


I Second That. The Skip Once Feature would be GREAT!!!!!!


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## rickwyo

Is there any hope that L1.10 will has some kind of fix for the gray-screen-with-X problems and random reboot problems?


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## MediaMills

> _Originally posted by rickwyo _
> *Is there any hope that L1.10 will has some kind of fix for the gray-screen-with-X problems and random reboot problems? *


I got this problem shortly after I got L109 (I think).
Occational grey-screen-with-X and continuous reboots. They swapped my receiver. I lost recordings but I saw all my prime-time stuff and the movies I recorded and kept were just "I'm bored. Let's see what's on the PVR" entries.


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## jcrash

> _Originally posted by MAllen _
> *Scott,
> 
> Do you know if this software release will correct the Caller ID issues?? I have had my 721 since last July and the Caller ID funciton has been flaky since then. The 1.07 software seemed to allow the caller ID function to work the best. Sometimes the caller ID works and other times NO JOY, no rhyme or reason that I can figure. The caller ID works flawlessly on my 5000's. *


I'd check your connection. I had this problem and after removing and replugging my cord a few times it started working consistently.


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## Doug E

I recall that a caller to the Tech Chat on Monday had a caller ID problem. The remedy suggested was to be sure there is a proper grounding.


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## Jacob S

There MUST be a ground in order for the caller ID to work.


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## steveT

My 721 missed a timer recently:

Channel 135, BBC America
program: BBC World News
Date: Feb 2nd
Time: 5:00am

That was the first chance to get a BBC report on the Shuttle disaster, so I'm definitely sure of the time and date.


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## Bill D

I almost forgot this one, please remember my sort, having it default to sort by date everytime is awful. I want sort my shows..


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## the_beaver

i'm wondering if this update will fix the known problem of a disk failure on the 721---i love my 721 but since november i have had a hard drive failure and returned my receiver for a new one---and just last week i got another 'disk failure' message and lost all of my recorded content and set preferences (this time however, my receiver successfully re-imaged itself and the tech at dish said it was a known issue with the 721)---


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## Big D

I have reread all of the posts on the subject of L110 and did not see a mention of one of my pet-peeves, sticky menus. One application in particular really bothers me: when in the PVR menu, I want the recordings to be sorted by name, not by date as it currently defaults to after each use. Hopefully L110 will "stick" to the sort by name option after leaving the menu if the user selects that option. There are other examples where sticky menus would be nice, but this one I use every day.

Scott, maybe you can verify if you have seen or heard anything on sticky menus. Also, it has been a number of days since we have seen any activity on the subject of L110, maybe you can give us an update, assuming one exists!


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## Greg Haynes

The sticky menus should be real easy for Dish to accomplish. It would be a nice feature to have.


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## Scott Greczkowski

*UPDATE on the Triple Timmer Conflict Screen*

The 721 team has listened to you our members AGAIN!

Many people have asked for the 721's Triple Timer Conflict Screen to add a "Skip Once" feature this way you can skip one recording of a weekly/daily show and not worry about if the show will record on its next run.

Well I am happy to report that the latest version of the 721 software adds the "Skip Once" feature!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, keep em coming!


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## BobMurdoch

A suggestion, let's hope they are incorporating all of these ideas, whenever relevant, into the 921. With the code being similar in many ways, the early adopters for the 921 won't have to wait 9 months like the 721 early adopters have.

Can you tell I'll be pouncing on the 921 when it comes out or what?


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## sampatterson

I agree Bob. Lets see who can pounce faster!


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## Big D

Scott, have they given you any indication if they are trying to put sticky menus into the load?


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## marshalk

Any hints from the 721 team on fixing the problem with the guide and feeds from 119 only?


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## Scott Greczkowski

No sorry no mention of Sticky menus, Guide from 119 or name based timers sorry.


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## Bill D

Scott. that's great about the skip once on the Triple conflict timer, which I could have used lately..
Dish...
One other small change I think that may have been mentioned was when you hit record while watching a show, it should immediately bring up all the choices, and rather then have start from beginning, have start from beginning of channel buffer. This will save a step (less button presses always better) to get to the options and unless you start watching from the beginning this option is useless..
thanks dish !!


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## DaYooper

OK, they're getting close. "Just" add name based recording, ability to edit out channels in the guide, available space pause buffer, and make it in AV black and I'll have an acceptable replacement for my Dishplayer.


----------



## BobMurdoch

Just getting close?

At this point "acceptable replacement for my Dishplayer" set the bar fairly low I thought.

I've got a 721 and 2 Dishplayers still in use in my house and the 721 blows it away in utility. Dual Tuners means never having o pass on a show that interests me. Much better Dolby Digital performance (although when both timers are running I get occassional dropouts with PCM audio - easily fixable by jumping back with the remote... in contrast to the Dishplayer you can get the audio back usually). Throw in a much bigger hard disk that keeps you from worrying about losing any shows you haven't seen yet and it makes the 721 receiver the best reciever out there right now for E*.

At least until the 921 comes out (we hope!!!).


----------



## Bill R

I have to agree with Bob. I have one DishPlayer left and my 721 DOES blow it away. Since I have been using the 721 I have really noticed how slow the DishPlayer is. The DishPlayer drives me nuts with the "jockey back and forth to get the sound back" on PVR functions. 

I think really what you have to look at is the future. I doubt that the DishPlayer will ever get new features (except for the 9 day EPG) and I am really wondering if it will ever be completely stable (after all, it has been out since May, 1999, and it still isn't completely stable). We know that the 721 will (just look at some of the nice features and fixes in L1.10).


----------



## BobMurdoch

At this point, it may be time to think about dumping the Dishplayer on EBay and getting either a 522 or a 721. There are plenty of people who still want them (I don't know or care that they may be destined for hackers that want to hack the cards... at this point if E* had a decent trade in plan, we wouldn't have to go this route.) After selling the unit the cost should be reasonable. The return of the $9.95 PTV fee should probably push the rest of the fencesitters over as well in June.


----------



## jcrash

> _Originally posted by BobMurdoch _
> *Just getting close?
> 
> At this point "acceptable replacement for my Dishplayer" set the bar fairly low I thought.
> 
> I've got a 721 and 2 Dishplayers still in use in my house and the 721 blows it away in utility. Dual Tuners means never having o pass on a show that interests me. Much better Dolby Digital performance (although when both timers are running I get occassional dropouts with PCM audio - easily fixable by jumping back with the remote... in contrast to the Dishplayer you can get the audio back usually). Throw in a much bigger hard disk that keeps you from worrying about losing any shows you haven't seen yet and it makes the 721 receiver the best reciever out there right now for E*.
> 
> At least until the 921 comes out (we hope!!!). *


Please help me understand "although when both timers are running I get occassional dropouts with PCM audio - easily fixable by jumping back with the remote... in "

On our 721, we get audio drops accompanied by slow motion every once in a while, and I'd say about 90% of the time we still hear no audio if we back up and try again. Am I the only one with the problem? Sometimes it happens for several seconds in length and you can miss some critical dialog.


----------



## Bill D

I also have been getting some of the 'slow motion' stuff. When I rewind, it plays fine, seems something with the hardrive at that time. Would the drive needing to be defragged be a problem??


----------



## EvanS

jcrash
my 721 does the same as yours. 1st few times it happened I must have lucked out cuz skip back seemed to make that spot ok. But now that I have been using it more it seems to me that I only get about a 30% success rate


----------



## FlyingDiver

Just about every time I've seen that, I looked at the clock an realized that there was a timer (or two) that had just fired. I figured it was a disk or CPU contention issue that was resolved as soon as the recording streams were established.

joe


----------



## treiher

Scott, any new updates on when this software upgrade will begin rolling out? Last I heard it was sometime in March. Guess I'm just excited to get it!


----------



## Kagato

Yeah, I can hear the disk thrashing when the stream starts skiping. Because of the nature of filesystems used in Linux, you don't see the same kind of issues you have in Windows FAT and VFAT32 filesystems. I think it's more likely to be a "paging" issue. Meaning that the machine doesn't have enough memory, so it's paging out memory to disk. 

If it actually is a memory issue it would be the first real black eye for the developement team, since it's an easy fix upfront and would very little cost to the final unit. The biggest problem is paging issues ususally get worse as software advances. I saw this with my original SA Tivo as the software advanced.

Still, compared to the rest of the Dish STBs the 721 is a pretty dang quick.


----------



## MikeW

Scott-Do you know if they'll apply the timer conflict upgrade to the 508? 
Another search feature that would be nice is to have a channel range to search through. This way, you could tell it to search from 300-350 for an actor and it wouldn't bring up all the PPV movies!


----------



## Hopper27

Great, the ability to "skip once" is one of the most imporant features to be added! That is something I find myself wanting many, many times.

The triple conflict screen also is critial, sounds like dish is really doing their job here!

My order for a 721 will be going in on Monday with Dish Depot!!!

Jason


----------



## keeneking

Scott - Can you do me a favor and check the L10 weather feature and see if what cities in NH are listed? I live in Keene, NH and wanted to know if this was an option. Thanks!


----------



## hojni

Scott,

Does 1.10 fix the beginning pad problem; where the wrong show info is logged in the PVR list if you start more than 1 minute before the show start. I lost the beginning few seconds of all 4 episodes of Stargate SG-1 tonight because I could only pad with 1 minute.

Funny thing is that I can easily pad 2 minutes (front and back) on my 508 with no problem


----------



## dbronstein

You can pad more than a minute, it just makes things confusing in the PVR listing. Hopefully this is fixed in 1.10.

Dennis


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

keeneking send me an email and remind me to check my 721 when I am home tonight and I will let you know whats there for New Hampshire.

I am surprised by the number of Connecticut towns which are covered on the weather app.


Honji, yes that is fixed.


----------



## Guest

Scott,

Do you know if the discrete power codes have been added yet to the latest beta version of the software? Last month's technical chat indicated they would be included in the next release of the software.

Bob


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

I do not believe so. At least I have not been given any discrete instructions for the 721.


----------



## Guest

I would like to know once and for all, since no one listened to Scott re: "not posting named-based timers issues here"....Is it legally possible or not...ie: Does Tivo have a patent (or copyright...etc) on name-based timers which Microsoft may or may not have licensed for the DishPlayer software. If they DO have legal right to the "idea" of Name-Based timers, shouldn't there be an easy way around it a la Amazon.com's one-click ordering (a lot of web merchants have gotten around that one). AND...if we can't use name-based timers to record, can't we at least WARN people if there are other versions of the same show on later--allowing them to change the timer themselves? Maybe by automatically adding any and all show names which have timers to the search listings? I can't tell you how many times i have missed a "special" CSI 'cos of the fact that CBS has moved it or shown it on a "Special Night". Also, short of name-based recording, can't Dish implement a Search feature that happens automatically in the background and would alert you (using the NEVER-EVER-EVER-USED MESSAGE FUNCTION) if one of your searches all of the sudden MATCHED a new program which it hadn't shown you in the past...thus reminding us of new shows or changes in show's times? Anyway..i know this didn't start out as a 1.10 posting, however, i think with the addition of the Search wish-list i think i just squeaked by!!!


----------



## jannlinder

PS: The previous post was me, by the way..darn browser forgot my login cookie!!! Jann


----------



## Filip1

Scott, good report. What about the jump button and the audio lag problem associated with it?
Jason, I have been having horrible problems with my Detroit locals in the last week. A csr said that engineering told him that it was a "provider" problem. If this is true or if he really talked to the engineering department I don't know. I am losing faith in Dish. This problem with the Detroit locals has been going on intermittantly since they went to the spotbeam.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

Filip, the jump lag problem is fixed too.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

Keeneking,

I just checked the weather app and for New Hampshire has 25 town/cities listed with Keene being one of them.


----------



## keeneking

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *Keeneking,
> 
> I just checked the weather app and for New Hampshire has 25 town/cities listed with Keene being one of them.  *


thanks for checking! I'm one step closer to a 721 If I can only get E* to carry my local ABC WMUR out of Manchester, NH then I would be sold.


----------



## Filip1

Thanks Scott!!


----------



## Guest

Scott:
I am axel, whats the size of a pvr721's hard drive?


----------



## Chris Blount

The PVR 721 has a 120GB hard drive.


----------



## treiher

Not to beat a dead horse again, but has anyone heard anything more about when this will be released? Last I remember was end of February or March. Has there been anything more specific?


----------



## l.i.t.e.

Hello All,

Just installed my 721 a few hours ago and i love it, menus are so much faster than my old dishplayer and i LOVE the new slowmotion, been waiting forever for that, now if they can just add frame by frame and zoom !!!!!!! One really annoying thing, the rewind starts at 4x, way too fast !!! should start at 2x and go from there...maybe Scott can pass this info on to E* ??? Gonna play with the timers tonight !!!

Thanks all


----------



## Jerry Abbanat

lite: instead of using 4x why not use 30 seconds fast forward or 10 seconds back buttons--works great for commercials (ususally 3-4 quick hits). I would like to see something in between 60X and 300X.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

Welcome to DBSTalk.COM l.i.t.e and Jerry too! :hi:

The 721 already has Frame by Frame for instructions on how to use it I have created a handy pocket guide which you can download and print. 

You can find it at http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10314

Enjoy!


----------



## l.i.t.e.

Hello,

WOW, right on Scott !!! Thanks man, this is great.

on the FF/RW, i sometimes like to watch things at 2x and like to be able to stop at certain sections quickly, 4x FF/RW makes this difficult, i did use the skip buttons once i got there with the 4x, but for me it really is to fast, id like to see 2, 4, 15, 60, 100, 300.

I really do love it so far, but ive only been playing with it for a few hours since i just installed last night.

Thanks again


----------



## Guest

First, this is not a troll. I really am curious. I am a current E* subscriber and have been "grandfathered" on distant nets. That is the only thing that keeps me from going with DirecTivo. I currently own a DP ('nuff said) and 501 (OK). My question is why would someone already with E* consider buying a 721? I just checked and the price at Dishdepot is $520! Why not go with DirecTivo? It seems to have much better tracking and conflict resolution capabilities than any of E*'s PVRs; i.e., if something moves, it will find it. It also has the season pass and automatic recording of recommended programs and other stuff. Is there anything significant that the 721 does (besides having no fee) that DirecTivo doesn't?

I guess I'm looking for someone to convince me to buy a 721 when E* starts charging for the DP again. Right now, the only thing keeping me with E* is the distant nets.


----------



## jcrash

Why721

This is just my opinion, but I bought a 721 for a couple reasons.

1. Already had other DISH stuff.
2. Was grandfathered (but that is gone now - except for CBS which they've let me keep for some reason)
3. I absolutely detest the TiVo interface and prefer the menu the way god intended it with the channels on the side and the time across the top. I understand that is an "option" with Tivo but evidently it is a slow option. The 721 guide is lightening quick.
4. Tivo is not the most stable financially. They might or might not be around to continue rolling out new features.
5. I've not had nearly as many problems with Dish or my old Dishplayer as SOME ##cough##bob##cough## people.

I'm real familiar with the DirectTivo product, other than knowing that their newer one has two tuners and what the general interface is like. Does it do picture in picture? That is handy.

Yes, I want something that will follow my show when it moves timeslots or runs a two hour episode. But, we only have ten or so weekly timers - not 64+ event timers like SOME people, and it really isn't a big deal to keep track of the shows. We are watching TV most nights anyway, so we just make sure the shows are recording whilst we watch something we've already got on the hard drive.

Overall, I was satisfied with my Dishplayer. I'd say I'm now several times that much satisfied with the 721. In short, it rocks.


----------



## STXJim

Please excuse me if this problem has been discussed before. 
I searched and couldn't find it.
I am new to the 721...Activated it yesterday.
What is with the sporadic 'No Information' display in the EEPG?
What do I have to do to correct it now?
And will L1.10 software correct this?
Thanks


----------



## mjschuyler

It takes a few days for the 721 to completely setup. It will then have all the proper software properly loaded and work as it should. Sorry you just have to wait it out.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

Jim, you join the ranks of a 721 owner, congrats!

The first 24 hours or so the 721 is a sluggish receiver. It seems as though it needs to download data for awhile before it starts working correctly.

Are you still on 119 only?

Let us know how it works for you.


----------



## marshalk

Jim, if you are still 119 only then I am afraid it will not get out of "no information" display in the program guide. I do not say EPG as you do not get it with 119 only. Still, as I have said before, a small price to pay for not living in the lower 48.


----------



## STXJim

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *
> 
> Are you still on 119 only?
> *


No,
A friend gave me a 4' dish that I aimed at 110.
What a pain in the butt that was to install. I spread the entire installation over a two week period.
Most tps read between 60 - 70 but tp29 only reads 40-50. It stays locked long enough to get the EEPG and other info I will need. Thats all that I care about.
I'm not going to subscribe to AT150.
At least I'm now getting ALL the movie channels that I have been subscribing to.
BTW, I bought my 721 and 1000' of RG6 from Dish Depot.
I said hi from DBSTalk and thanked Mark for what he is doing for us.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

Very cool Jim, I hope it brings you a new world of enjoyment.


----------



## Guest

Scott, think we'll see L110 by the end of March?


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

I can't say DishPro. I think that was the goal, however most of Echostar was closed last week because of the snow storm, that may delay things. 

Trust me it will be worth the wait.


----------



## marshalk

Jim you lucky dog you. No longer a 119 only! You get the EPG!!!! Lucky you. I may have to break down and do something similar myself. I just hope I can get 60 to 70 for the transponders.


----------



## Guest

Most of the time in PVR I use sort by name and keeping this set is a highly desired feature.


----------



## Jacob S

If you subscribe to top150 for a year there is a promotion for a free dish 500 upgrade. You have to sign a contract for a year.


----------



## buist

One common suggestion for enhancements to the 721 has been recording by name.. I understand that there are patent infringement concerns.. What I would suggest is that there is a permanent or static search. This would be a tool to define a list of show names, descriptions, etc. This list would be used to perform a search with results updating each day (to coincide with the guide updates). I would suggest that the user interface would have an option to edit the list and an option to view the search results.. When viewing the search results, it would allow a "one button" selection to set up a record event (just like the existing search). This is an advanced continuous search which is in no way a record by name..

With this feature, I could look at the search results once a week to ensure I recorded everything that I wanted - so it would be very easy to manage (assuming a 10+ day guide). Combine this with the feature that would automatically extend record times and I think the 721 would really quiet a lot of critics.

Tim


----------



## UpOnTheMountain

buist,
Nice idea. Sort of a script list for recording ... hmmm .... that could lead into some pretty powerful tech features.
It seams that a script hook should be very do-able.
Something like :
1. SearchAndRecord,ExactMatch,Protect,Item="Six Feet Under"
2. PVRList,AnytMatch,Delete,OlderThanDays="30",Item="Law & Order"
3. SearchAndRecord,AnyMatch,Item="CSI"
4. PVRList,AnytMatch,UnProtect,OlderThanDays="14",Item=""
5. PVRTune,MatchFirstPVR,AtDate="033103",AtTime="22:00",Item="CSI"


----------



## rcwilcox

Scott:
One thing I noticed when I was using mine in closed caption in PIP was the closed caption was for one of the inputs no matter which input was the main picture. That would seem like a bug. What would be really cool would be if that were selectable. Ie choose close caption from the small or big pic that way you could listen to one and watch the audio on the other. What does everybody think of that and has anybody else seen the same thing?


----------



## DmitriA

> _Originally posted by rcwilcox _
> *Scott:
> One thing I noticed when I was using mine in closed caption in PIP was the closed caption was for one of the inputs no matter which input was the main picture. That would seem like a bug. What would be really cool would be if that were selectable. Ie choose close caption from the small or big pic that way you could listen to one and watch the audio on the other. What does everybody think of that and has anybody else seen the same thing? *


I've noticed the same thing too - it does not do that all the time, just sometimes. However, occasionally it is quite useful - you can watch one channel and read what the people are saying in the PIP of the other


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

Hey never tried that.  

(I don't know where my origional TV remote control is to turn on the Closed Captioning)


----------



## DmitriA

Well, if they ever get around to fixing this bug, I vote for some sort of ability to switch closed captioning between the main and pip window!


----------



## Guest

They need to be able to switch audio program between main and PIP window. Watching a program with closed captioning is too distracting.


----------



## Jacob S

Thats a lot of info to view at once, the main screen, small screen, and PIP all at once.


----------



## krlauver

I do not use the PIP much but think I would use it more if the way it worked was reversed. When changing channels it leaves the channel in the small screen alone and changes the big screen right? Well suppose I want to watch and listen to a show and flip through the channels just to see what is on? I know the guide is there but sometimes you want to just change the channels.

If the big screen remained on the channel you want to watch along with the audio and the small screen changed for you without the audio I would use it a lot more.

Do you think they could add a preference for this so that those that are happy with how it works can have that and those that want the reverse can select that as well?

thanks for reading ...


----------



## DmitriA

I think the major problem is the lack of buttons on the remote to implement much of the additional functionality we would all love to have. Overloading buttons to do multiple things is really not a good idea.
Maybe one option is to put some additional things on the keyboard if that thing ever comes out. But frankly, I wish they had thought this through prior to releasing the product and put a couple of additional rows of buttons 'reserved for future use'. They should certainly do that for the upcoming 921


----------



## Big Bob

One feature that I haven't heard anyone ask for is the ability to set how many past versions to keep of a show that is on a repeating timer. 

Suppose if you have a timer to record the news every night. You could choose to keep only one broadcast so that it doesn't fill up the hard drive so quickly. Or choose to keep the last 5 broadcasts, so you can alway go back one weeks worth. Should be rather easy to implement. 

This way you could have lots of recurring timers and not run out of space so fast.

$.02


----------



## dbronstein

> _Originally posted by Big Bob _
> *One feature that I haven't heard anyone ask for is the ability to set how many past versions to keep of a show that is on a repeating timer.
> 
> Suppose if you have a timer to record the news every night. You could choose to keep only one broadcast so that it doesn't fill up the hard drive so quickly. Or choose to keep the last 5 broadcasts, so you can alway go back one weeks worth. Should be rather easy to implement. *


My old Replay had this feature. I personally had no use for it because I don't record anything I want to auto-delete if I don't watch, but it definitely has its uses.

Dennis


----------



## Jacob S

Seems similar to the protect feature in a way to where you can reserve a show and then the ones you do not want to reserve it will just delete it off automatically when the hard drive needs to write over a show to create a new one.


----------



## Big Bob

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *Seems similar to the protect feature in a way to where you can reserve a show and then the ones you do not want to reserve it will just delete it off automatically when the hard drive needs to write over a show to create a new one. *


Yeah, but for that to kick in, the hard drive needs to be full. And then the oldest unprotected file will be deleted. And fill up the pvr list with a whole bunch of shows.

This would make everything neater and give you more control.


----------



## jcrash

I also like the idea of a "Keep X# of shows" primarily for news and other daily shows which I would like to record in case I want to watch, but I really dont want to have to get in there and clean them out.


----------



## Bill D

I posted this as an idea somewhere. I end up cleaning up the hardrive every few days just to kill the kid's shows. Be great if they would go away after XX of days..


----------



## BobaBird

You gotta give it about 6574 days (18*365+4 leap days)


----------



## Big Bob

> _Originally posted by Bill D _
> *I posted this as an idea somewhere. I end up cleaning up the hardrive every few days just to kill the kid's shows. Be great if they would go away after XX of days.. *


That would be one way to do it. It would have it's place for some situations.

If I had to choose, I would rather have "keep xx number of episodes of this timer" .

Make me really happy and add both !


----------



## goblin

I agree Big Bob. We have this great piece of technology in our hands, so why not make our lives easier and cut out some of the manual disk management by adding an autodelete mechanism. If it's an optional feature, then everyone will be happy.

My wife often records lots of rerun shows but rarely gets around to watching them all. Eventually the disk fills up and some shows go away, though in my opinion, this is a rather poor way to handle disk management. Plus I hate to have to scroll down pages of "Friends" or "Law & Order's" just to find something I'd like to watch. Folders would help some, but I think it would be really nice if these kind of bulk recordings just get stale after awhile and disappear.

While it's simple to purge them periodically, it's still a tedious manual process that could be automated. Providing an option to place a limit on how many (unprotected) shows could be saved by a timer, or an autodelete time period (per show) would be an easy to understand and apply form disk management.


----------



## jimcx

If we ever do get folders, it would be nice to be able to designate a folder as "autodelete" with an option of Number of hours of programming within the folder (maybe in increments of five to make it easier - 5 hrs / 10hrs / 15 hrs) or number of same-titled shows before autodelete begins.


----------



## BobMurdoch

it would be easy do.... "automatically delete after x days" where x can be selected by the user


----------



## BobMurdoch

So my kids will not clog up the drive with Dragon Tales and Power Rangers (ugh!). At least the Power Puff Girls and Samurai Jack is watchable by adults


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

Good ideas guys! Keep em coming the 721 team is watching.


----------



## BobMurdoch

What are they doing watching us???!!??? Get to work on that 921.

Just kidding...... Is it August yet? (Nope, it's snowing again in NJ here so I guess the answer is no)


----------



## Guest

I have a suggestion. I'd like to be able to specify one of the "favorites" lists as a default, and have it appear on the first push of the guide button. Not only would this be convenient; it would also allow me to program a third party remote control with separate buttons for an adult list and a childrens list (each button issuing the appropriate number of pushes of the guide button).


----------



## goblin

Scott,

Is this the current 721 "idea' forum?

Assuming it's so, I have one:

I have found it very convenient to do timed jumps ahead and back while watching a pre-recorded show. For example, on ReplayTV and many VCRs (and some DVD players) it's possible to press one or more numeric digits to jump forward or backwards that number of minutes. So for example, a "3" followed by "skip" forward" would jump 3 minutes forward (effectively skipping an entire commercial), or if a particular sequence was known to occur 43 minutes into a movie, then from start, pressing "4", "3", "skip forward" would jump right to the spot you wanted.

Jumping back a couple minutes would also be easier with a "2" followed by "skip back" -- rather than by pressing "skip back" 12 times.

Currently the PVR jumps to the live numeric channel identified by the digits, so perhaps the delay between jumping to that channel might have to be increased slightly so the PVR could see if the skip forward or back buttons get pressed next. Hmmm... though it could be very frustrating if one was a little slow with the skip button and jumped out of the recording.

Alternatively, the numeric jump feature could be preceeded by a "*" or "#" to clue the PVR in to the purpose of the next digits.

Wait... does anyone ever jump directly to a live channel in the middle of watching a pre-recorded show? If so, why? Maybe that "feature" could just be eliminated and replaced by a timed jump forward/back function. One can always first press "stop" and then press the channel numbers if they have a need to jump to a live channel.

I'd think this timed jump forward/back function would be very easy to implement.


----------



## Jacob S

You should look at my website at some of the ideas that we have already vs. new ones. I have created categories of ideas jsut for this, that way we do not have to keep thinking of the same ideas over and over but think of additional ones after reading over those, such things that nobody ever thought of before.


----------



## Ken_F

As far as name based recording, why doesn't Dish simply copy the approach taken by News Corp to get around Tivo's patents? For its Sky Digital satellite service in the UK, News Corporation offers PVRs that they developed in conjunction with PACE, OpenTV, and NDS.

News Corporation did not licensee Tivo software or patents, yet they offer a version of name based recording which they call "series link." It isn't actually name based recording, but it accomplishes the same thing for popular shows. From what I understand of how it works, Sky Digital is sending data with association / link information for a number of popular shows. So rather than relying on receiver alone to find shows with the same name, they are sending data over satellite with this link information for popular sitcoms, etc.

Why couldn't Dish do the same thing? Anyone know whether the News Corp method is patented as well?


----------



## DmitriA

Perhaps Scott can ask this question to his contacts at E* and resolve this speculation once and for all - is it the patent problems that are preventing them from doing name-based recording or something else? Maybe someone should also try to e-mail/call Charlie on Monday and the Tech Chat next month if that doesn't work


----------



## dbronstein

> _Originally posted by Ken_F _
> *As far as name based recording, why doesn't Dish simply copy the approach taken by News Corp to get around Tivo's patents? For its Sky Digital satellite service in the UK, News Corporation offers PVRs that they developed in conjunction with PACE, OpenTV, and NDS.
> 
> News Corporation did not licensee Tivo software or patents, yet they offer a version of name based recording which they call "series link." It isn't actually name based recording, but it accomplishes the same thing for popular shows. From what I understand of how it works, Sky Digital is sending data with association / link information for a number of popular shows. So rather than relying on receiver alone to find shows with the same name, they are sending data over satellite with this link information for popular sitcoms, etc.
> 
> Why couldn't Dish do the same thing? Anyone know whether the News Corp method is patented as well? *


Doesn't Dish get their guide from a third party? So they would either have to have the other company add in this info or do it themselves. Either way, it would cost a few bucks.

Dennis


----------



## jerryyyyy

Any idea when this upgrade is supposed to come out now?


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

It will be out when its ready. 

They have us doing all kinds of crazy tests (stuff that we would normally never think of doing) 

Its nice to see them going through the software with a fine tooth comb. 

The 721 Team is working VERY hard on this.


----------



## dbronstein

Glad to hear they are doing some serious testing this time.

Dennis


----------



## Adrian_R

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *They have us doing all kinds of crazy tests (stuff that we would normally never think of doing)
> 
> Its nice to see them going through the software with a fine tooth comb.
> 
> The 721 Team is working VERY hard on this.  *


Please be sure to thank them from all of us 721 owners!


----------



## Bill D

Scott.. is the cleanup bug fixed. I get booted out of clean up as I am arrowing through that menu. ??


----------



## Scott Greczkowski

I am not having any problems with my beta L1.10 release and the clean up screen.


----------



## Bill D

thanks scott


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## Jacob S

Are they giving updates to the 1.10 beta software you gusy have to see if some of the issues have been corrected that you guys have found?


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## the_beaver

if my 721 is on 24/7 how will i know that
the update has been downloaded---other
than checking out this great website..???


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## dbronstein

You can check the software version on the system info screen.


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## greylar

I know this has been asked before by several people myself included but I've never seen an answer yes or no. Will the new patch fix the bug that was introduced by the last patch where the guide doesn't download when you have a 119 only system? 

Also, is there a new ETA? 

Greylar


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## Big Bob

Okay Scott, 
If they really are monitoring this and are looking for suggestions...

Put together a bundle with a USB web camera and microphone, 
hook it to the internet and bundle it with some internet phone software and viola, instant video phone!

All of the ports are there, most of the software could be licensed and Dish could probably charge a few buck a month for the service. 

I really like the idea of a video internet phone that is alway up and running that I can use from my sofa. 

You said they wanted ideas.
Or is this something that would really blow us away and you couldn't comment about


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## Big Bob

the more I think about my own post, 
what other use could the front panel mic input be for?

Strangely, an internet video phone seems like the most likely use. Everything else seems even MORE out there. 

Given Dish's strong presence in the international market, they might just be thinking about this. 

The thing that really makes this work better than a computer based internet phone is that the 721 is always on and generally in a room more easily accessed than a room that a computer might be in. (generally, not always  ) If you have an always on broadband connection, this would really be great.


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## hojni

I've been thinking about the possibility of an Internet connection for the 721, and while it opens up some real exciting options, I can't help but wonder how we would protect the 721 from virus attacks?


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## Big Bob

> _Originally posted by hojni _
> *I've been thinking about the possibility of an Internet connection for the 721, and while it opens up some real exciting options, I can't help but wonder how we would protect the 721 from virus attacks? *


A couple of things to keep in mind. Most (not all) viruses attack windows machines and microsoft software. This is a linux machine, so all of those viruses are of no worry.

Any protection software for linux should work with the 721. Anti-virus and firewall programs.

My worry would be not be viruses but hackers trying to bust in. Not like there is anything that is of value in my 721, but those hackers like to mess things up just to mess them up. A firewall should keep them out. I don't know what is availble for linux, or how the end user would install such software on the 721. A hardware firewall would work though.


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## davhol

Big Bob,
That sounds like an intriguing use of the 721 ("video phone") but think, for a moment, from Dish's customer support perspective (or TIVO's or whoever's if they were to have some similar functionality): how do we support <brand X> webcamera? What if the camera doesn't work with the 721? Most people will FIRST assume the problem is with the 721 and they will be flooding Dish with all sorts of invectives about their crappy hardware, etc. Discussion forums will fill up with <company> sucks because of <whatever>. All because a peripheral doesn't conform to some standard, all this extra support effort gets generated and people get mad ALL OVER THE PLACE and place the blame on the primary piece of hardware. Microsoft sees this all the time (and I am NO fan/supporter of that operating environment) and they, too, struggle with trying to provide support for brand X hardware. Just because an idea is good and innovative (like yours), it probably will be deferred to someone else because of the potential support issues. I'm not trying to burst your balloon, as it were, just giving you some reasons as to why it might not be welcomed as generously as you would have hoped.


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## Big Bob

Davhol,
don't worry about bubble bursting, I burst my own many time per day. You get used to it after awhile. 

Believe me, I know first hand the troubles with customer support. What a nightmare! It is one of the first questions I ask before a new project is green lit. 

but...

I was actually thinking about a Dish-branded package including a camera and microphone and maybe usb-ethernet adapter. Control as much as possible of the variables. I would outsource the project to a company with experience in either web cams or video phones, let them do all of the work and then slap the dish brand on it. If they hook up with a good company (not microsoft/webTV), it is a fine way to work. 

Plus, the "standards" are getting a bit tighter. USB. I also read that there is some sort of standard for internet video phones. Yeah, "standards". right. (pop. bubble bursting again)

They could actually sluff off the support back to the original manufacturer ie "press 3 for video phone support"

If you want to think about support nightmares, think about what is going to happen when they do put internet access into the 721. There are so many variables that they have no control over and a lot of people who will not be very network savy. Gives me the willies just thinking about it. -shiver-

But on a more serious note. Has Dish ever opened up any of their receivers to outside software? If someone had an idea for an add-on product, would there be anyway to do it? Would Dish allow it? Personally, I don't think they should, but it would be interesting. Anyone know?


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## Randy_B

Scott, does L1.11 fix the incredibly STUPID set up where when you start watching a recording, stop and then go back to resume, the deafult selection is "start over"? The 721 is the only PVR that doesn't default to resume. Very minor point, but damn it is annoying!


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## Mike Russell

I agree Randy_B. Several times I have went back to my program and hit select without thinking, then have to FF to find where I left of.


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## treiher

Jeez. Thanks for pointing that out!!! I thought I was losing my mind on some programs, because after watching part of it and then coming back to it later, resume was not highlighted. I was sure I had watched part of it, but then decided I must have been wrong. Guess I should have tried resume anyway!!


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## Scott Greczkowski

Folks,

I am HAPPY to report that this version of the software which I reviewed here (complete with the Enhanced Conflict Screen and Weather Application) will be coming you way VERY soon!

I can announce now that there was a big bug in this version of the software, but I am happy and pleased to announce that I have worked with the 721 Team and because of my findings they were finally able to correct this bug!

I am not going to elaborate what the bug was but it was a big enough bug to hold this update up for quite awhile (and which is why the "LITE" update went out)

As a Beta Tester I was very happy that I could assist the 721 team in finding and squashing this bug.

Look for L1.12 very soon, and enjoy!


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## Jerry Abbanat

I ;hope the screensaver is restored in 1.13. This is a real negative at the moment (it was not fixed in 1.12. Also, I would like to see "start 1 min early" and "end 3 min late" defaulting to a user selected time. I usually use 0 and 0 and would like that as my default. Others could choose whatever they want. It seems that this fix to "remember" the last settings or a user default would not be hard one.


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## Adrian_R

> _Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski _
> *I am not going to elaborate what the bug was but it was a big enough bug to hold this update up for quite awhile (and which is why the "LITE" update went out)
> 
> As a Beta Tester I was very happy that I could assist the 721 team in finding and squashing this bug.
> 
> Look for L1.12 very soon, and enjoy! *


Don't take this the wrong way, but I was just wondering WHY you would not want to elaborate on what the bug was about?

You've got my curiosity going, and I had thought this web site was the place to talk about these kind of things?

I realize you can't discuss Dish proprietary stuff, but a routine comment on if it was, for example, a pointer bug that corrupted a listing, shouldn't be "all revealing" and bothersome to Dish.

Just wondering.


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## Gavinboy

Is this new upgrade going to include Discreet Power Codes?

I have been using a Pronto to control my system and just switched to an MX-700. In my macros my dish 301 uses it's discreet codes flawlesly.

I adore my 721 but I cant stand it messing up my Macros.

As far as I'm aware, all of the other dish divices can now be controlled via discreet power codes but for some reson Dish Network has not yet included them on the 721. Why?


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## kyoo

yes.. i believe that was already mentioned.. discrete power codes will be in the next rev.. well, maybe not the next one, but the one after.. whenever the weather app comes.


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## Neil Derryberry

I'm new to this discussion... I installed my 721 a little more than 12 hours ago, and so far, so good!

I don't have the weather application, and my sw ver is 1.12 . Is this a 1.13 fuction, or do I need to do something to get the app?


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## Scott Greczkowski

The weather application is not available yet, it will (should) be in the next release. 

I know its coming "soon" unfortunately I don't know how soon, "soon" is.


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## Jacob S

My attention has went from software additions to hardware issues such as pixelation. I disconnected one tuner while I was gone on the receiver and came back and still have not connected it back up. Not one pixelation experience since.

I am wondering if I do schedule two recordings for the same time would a conflict screen come up if I have only one tuner hooked up? I think this would be a great feature for those that could only hook up one tuner. I might as well have a 501/508 than to mess with a 721 if I can only have one tuner hooked up but they go bad too.


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## Mike Richardson

Hey, I get a 508 tomorrow, could someone post some screen caps of one?


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## infodragon

Jason said:


> These features don't mean anything to me when just about every recorded program has pixellating and sound skipping problems for a few seconds each time it occurs.
> 
> FACT: THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE DETROIT LOCALS SIGNAL!


Jason,

I get the detroit channels and have only experienced the pixelation 2 times in the past month. I have found that it is directly related to temperature. Where are you storing your 721? Is it in a location that gets good ventilation? If it is in a well ventilated area, are the vents on the left side, from the perspective of looking at the front, have at least 3" of clearance?

I have found that placing the unit in the open and making sure the vents have proper clearance resolves the pixelation problem due to reducing the amount of heat buildup in the unit.

Hope this helps
Rick


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## RLMesq

Scott Greczkowski said:


> The weather application is not available yet, it will (should) be in the next release.
> 
> I know its coming "soon" unfortunately I don't know how soon, "soon" is.


Hmmm... since the thread got bumped, I took another look.

Judging from the fact you posted this two and a half months ago, I would be inclined to say you don't know when "soon" is, either, G-man! :lol:


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## Jacob S

Could you imagine what it would be like if some guy started sending out viruses via uplink to the satellites and you downloaded them with the satellite signal and it causes viruses in your receiver causing you to not use your receiver anymore or annoying bugs?


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## Lee L

Jacob S said:


> Could you imagine what it would be like if some guy started sending out viruses via uplink to the satellites and you downloaded them with the satellite signal and it causes viruses in your receiver causing you to not use your receiver anymore or annoying bugs?


It would be remarkably similar to owning a DishPlayer.


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## Mike D-CO5

Which one ? The 7100 or "the new 510 dishplayer with video on demand service fees ?" :eek2:


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## Jacob S

Now there will be more confusion in that if someone mentions Dishplayer on this site we will not know if they are meaning the old or new Dishplayer. I would think that "Dishplayer" would be mentioned on discussing the 7100 or 7200 and "510" would be mentioned when talking about the new Dishplayer.


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## Mike D-CO5

I loved the original concept of the dishplayer back in 99 when I got one and i even got into the computer by using the Web tv service. It really had the potential to go far like the ultimate tv did, but instead it went right back to Dish and I traded it in on a 301 just to get rid of the box after 3 rmas.

I wish Dish would either fix these or recall them once and for all so there would be no confusion and no bad history associated with the new dishplayer 510 dvr. I also wish someone could tell me how this video on demand service is any different from the type of pvr service we use already. If it is like true video on demand ,with downloaded movies to your dvr at no extra cost, other than the fee you pay per receiver(OUCH!), then maybe Dish will give you something extra for your money. This is what I said before: offer something for your money so you can justify the fee. Of course if you sub to AEP then it is just a free added bonus. 

I just wonder how long it will be before this Video on Demand service is down loaded to the existing 501/508/721 pvrs. Then they can call these a new model number and you could be getting a fee in your future.  You remember when they upgraded the 4700 model to a 4900 by software update? 

I talked to a Dish csr yesterday and she said they were just in a meeting that discussed the update for a 301 which would give you at least 2 days guide and she said that it would be similiar to this. You would upgrade the existing 301 receivers by software update and then they would become a 311 model number. Supposedly that is the only difference between the 301 and the 311; better memory with the guide. Of course no one knows for sure if she really knew what she was talking about. :sure:


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## Chris Freeland

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I loved the original concept of the dishplayer back in 99 when I got one and i even got into the computer by using the Web tv service. It really had the potential to go far like the ultimate tv did, but instead it went right back to Dish and I traded it in on a 301 just to get rid of the box after 3 rmas.
> 
> I wish Dish would either fix these or recall them once and for all so there would be no confusion and no bad history associated with the new dishplayer 510 dvr. I also wish someone could tell me how this video on demand service is any different from the type of pvr service we use already. If it is like true video on demand ,with downloaded movies to your dvr at no extra cost, other than the fee you pay per receiver(OUCH!), then maybe Dish will give you something extra for your money. This is what I said before: offer something for your money so you can justify the fee. Of course if you sub to AEP then it is just a free added bonus.
> 
> I just wonder how long it will be before this Video on Demand service is down loaded to the existing 501/508/721 pvrs. Then they can call these a new model number and you could be getting a fee in your future. You remember when they upgraded the 4700 model to a 4900 by software update?
> 
> I talked to a Dish csr yesterday and she said they were just in a meeting that discussed the update for a 301 which would give you at least 2 days guide and she said that it would be similar to this. You would upgrade the existing 301 receivers by software update and then they would become a 311 model number. Supposedly that is the only difference between the 301 and the 311; better memory with the guide. Of course no one knows for sure if she really knew what she was talking about. :sure:


From my understanding, Dish Video on Demand is nothing more then the new marketing name that E* is using to sell the DVR fee, no more then what you 501/508 people are getting now without a monthly fee. Anything you get on the satellite you can record and then watch, skip commercials in 30 second intervals at any time that suites, thus "Dish Video on Demand", in reality nothing new and no new software to download to 501/508 to make it a 510. The only thing that makes a 510 different from a 508 besides the monthly fee, is the larger hard drive, just like 508 vs 501. I suspect if E* decides to do automatic downloads to the buffer, similar to what D*Tivo does now with Starz , they can and will do this to 501's and 508's too.


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## Jacob S

If they are going to be doing a software upgrade to the current 301's to allow 2 days of program guide information without acquiring info from satellite message coming up in the pip guide (in which I have been hearing about this for a while now) then what additional benefits are we going to see in the 311 since it is going to have additional memory? I thought they were saying that the benefit of the 311's additional memory was going to be to resolve the acquiring info from satellite message?


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## Bill R

Chris Freeland said:


> From my understanding, Dish Video on Demand is nothing more then the new marketing name that E* is using to sell the DVR fee, no more then what you 501/508 people are getting now without a monthly fee. Anything you get on the satellite you can record and then watch, skip commercials in 30 second intervals at any time that suites, thus "Dish Video on Demand", in reality nothing new and no new software to download to 501/508 to make it a 510. The only thing that makes a 510 different from a 508 besides the monthly fee, is the larger hard drive, just like 508 vs 501. I suspect if E* decides to do automatic downloads to the buffer, similar to what D*Tivo does now with Starz , they can and will do this to 501's and 508's too.


Chris,

You are 100 percent correct. This is just a new marketing gimmick (a really deceptive one) that makes it appear that the customer is able to get the same thing he gets from cable. This is just a feeble attempt on DISH's part to try to justify the DVR fee (which they are now calling the DVOD fee).


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## jcrash

what a joke.

echostar coders either
a) You really stink it up,

or

b) Your management is inept

or

c) Both.


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