# Anyone with a 622 seeing random short skips?



## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

Tonight while watching a recording of 'Heroes' in HD (OTA) on NBC , my wife and I noticed random 1-3 second skips (both audio and video). Often we missed complete sentences. However, we could go back and watch the same part again and catch what we missed. So it appears to be a playback problem and not a recording or signal reception issue. Both the audio and video are skipped for a few seconds. There is no picture break-up, distorted sound or black screen when this happens. Its just that we periodically are missing a few seconds of content.

While watching Heroes, this happened on average about 2 times every minute. We've noticed this many times in the past on other HD recorded shows.

I called Tech Support and the man said he had not heard of this problem. 

Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Welcome to DBSTalk b_c. Sounds like you saw the video jitter that people are still occasionally seeing. It's a lot better than it used to be but people still do see it from time to time. 

I'm going to move this into the 622 forum so it gets more visibility by the 622 community.


----------



## ASOT (Apr 7, 2006)

I have been getting video only black outs. I can still hear the audio, but the video blacks out. Sometimes it seems like it takes forever to come back.

It seems to happen on live OTA, live Sat channels or recordings. And I think it is only the HD channels. And yes, you are right about it being a playback problem... I noticed the same. You can have a black out... rewind and playback to see what you missed.

I have noticed, and this may be my perception only, that the pic will come back once the scene changes? I was watching a skit on Sat Night Live (OTA) and it blacked out... I quickly changed the channel and then back to SNL. The pic came back for a second and then went black again. It was not until the camera angle or the scene changed that the pic stayed. ??

I have noticed this more since I added a DVDR that is connected inline between the 622 and the TV. The DVDR is connected via component and has the ability to pass through the 622 signal at 1080i when it is off. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or if the DVDR is messing with things.

There was a post awhile back of someone complaining about blackouts, so I am assuming that it is not my DVDR and more of a 622 output thing.

I wish they would fix the problem though, it can be quite frustrating.

Ron


----------



## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

b_c said:


> Has anyone else experienced this?


Welcome Aboard!:welcome_s

Yes, I've been seeing it (hearing, actually) since they introduced the problem in the previous L3.63 software release where it was much worse. L3.65 made it better, but it is still not right. For me the problem seems to only afflict the audio portion of recorded content - Live and trick-buffer viewing seems to be okay. Hopefully they will get this resolved in the next update&#8230;



b_c said:


> I called Tech Support and the man said he had not heard of this problem.


That's the standard CSR response.


----------



## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

Rob Glasser said:



> Welcome to DBSTalk b_c. Sounds like you saw the video jitter that people are still occasionally seeing. It's a lot better than it used to be but people still do see it from time to time. ...


Thanks. I don't think its quite the same as the jitter problem described previously. Its not a series of micro-short start/stop gaps -- instead its like watching a video where someone has randomly cut out 1 to 3 second sections. Sometimes you cant even tell you missed something until you realize that the actors dialogue doesn't make sense -- like when he answers a question that you never heard the other guy ask.



ASOT said:


> I have been getting video only black outs. I can still hear the audio, but the video blacks out. Sometimes it seems like it takes forever to come back. ...


I think I would prefer that to what I'm getting now, because at least the audio is there for you.

The tech support guy at Dish offered to send a replacement, but from what I am hearing here, its a software issue that a replacement unit wouldn't help.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually b_c. From reading this thread I don't see anyone indicating they are seeing the same issue. Pesonally I have not seen this issue on my box. 

More info is needed. 

Live, Delayed or Recorded? 
Channels you see this on? 
OTA, Dish HD, Dish SD? 
Do you have specific steps to get this to reproduce?
If this is happening, when you rewind.... Does the missing audio re-appear?


----------



## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Actually b_c. From reading this thread I don't see anyone indicating they are seeing the same issue. Pesonally I have not seen this issue on my box.


I thought AVJohnnie was having the same problem, or is he getting video during the missing audio? Also, at least 3 people on another forum are having the same issue as me.


Ron Barry said:


> More info is needed.
> 
> Live, Delayed or Recorded?
> Channels you see this on?
> OTA, Dish HD, Dish SD?


As for more providing more info, much of what you ask is already in post #1 above.

Its happening with both delayed and recorded content (but not live). Its OTA HD. I saw it on KCRA channel 3, but that is pretty much the only OTA HD channel I watch so it might be a problem with other channels.



Ron Barry said:


> Do you have specific steps to get this to reproduce?
> If this is happening, when you rewind.... Does the missing audio re-appear?


From my post #1, "we could go back and watch the same part again and catch what we missed". So both the missing audio and video re-appear.

Specific steps to reproduce:
1) Record an OTA HD show.
2) Watch it until something doesn't make sense. (Missing dialog / incomplete scene)
3) Skip back 10 seconds and see what you missed.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

So... 

1) Only on live content. 
2) Only have seen it on OTA (1 channel). 
3) Multiple shows. Hereos is mentioned. I watch Hereos and have not seen it, but sometime I watch OTA and sometimes I watch Dish HD.
4) Not sure if AVJohnnie is seeing the same thing since he mentions only audio. In your case it is like it someone is hitting skip forward. I assume you don't see the skip forward icon during these times. I have gotten short audio drops but I usually see video or pixelization along with audio loss. Not the jumping you are describing. 

Sorry for not pulling the information out of your thread but I read the replies and guess I got confused.

I am still not convinced AVJohnnie is talking about the same thing. The fact that so far we are talking about one channel makes me thing it might be a stream issue. See if you get it with other channels. 

As for the reproduce steps.. thanks..  I do those steps all the time so it must be something unique to the station or your particular receiver. WOnder if anyone in your area watches Heroes and what was there OTA experience on that channel on Monday.


----------



## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> So...
> 
> 1) Only on live content.
> 2) Only have seen it on OTA (1 channel).
> ...


No to #1 (Its only on recorded or delayed content). Yes to 2,3,4. And as you guessed, I don't see the skip forward icon.


Ron Barry said:


> I am still not convinced AVJohnnie is talking about the same thing. The fact that so far we are talking about one channel makes me thing it might be a stream issue. See if you get it with other channels.
> 
> As for the reproduce steps.. thanks..  I do those steps all the time so it must be something unique to the station or your particular receiver. WOnder if anyone in your area watches Heroes and what was there OTA experience on that channel on Monday.


Someone in another forum has seen this problem on KCRA Channel 3 (NBC Sacramento)

As soon as my wife finishes watching TV I'll check other OTA HD channels and report back here.


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Would be nice if we can narrow it down to a station. Since you can rewind back and replay and get the missing video, that to me rules out that it is missing from the stream. If we see it on other stations then that rules out that it is particular to that one station. I will keep an eye out for it.


----------



## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

I've noticed over the last few days that I am getting some brief audio drop-outs on NBC OTA recordings. I noticed it a bit on Heroes, SNL, and some Late Night w/Conan O'Brien recordings. However, in my case when I skip back the dropout is always in the same spot. I'm only seeing this on NBC shows and only since this last weekend. I'm assuming what I'm seeing is a stream issue and not a 622 issue. I have not noticed it on any other recordings/channels yet.


----------



## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

Last night I watched the recording of Monday's Heroes episode and saw quite a bit of skipping but no real audio problems (other than the annoying popping that always occurs when coming back from commercial). This is OTA from NBC5 (KTXA) in Dallas.


----------



## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> I am still not convinced AVJohnnie is talking about the same thing. The fact that so far we are talking about one channel makes me thing it might be a stream issue. See if you get it with other channels.


Just to clarify -

I'm only having audio dropout issues - and only on recorded content - live play back or trick-buffer play back works fine.

The recorded channel source (SD, HD, SAT-Locals, etc.) seem to have no bearing on the audio dropout problem. The dropouts happen on all of the 622's audio outputs (TOS-Link, R/L and RF modulated) and simultaneously.

The issue is happening on both of my 622s.

This started when L3.63 loaded and continues with L3.65, but not as bad as it was with L3.63.


----------



## Rovingbar (Jan 25, 2005)

I sometimes see issues like b_c. Actually I have two problems, and they are usually on SAT HD Locals. About 80% of our viewing is recorded SAT HD locals. We rarely watch live TV anymore.

1. Audio and video skips several seconds. I can rewind to see what was missed.
2. Brief video distortion (pixelation, box patterns on part of the screen, etc.).

My item 1 is very close to b_c however if I back up too far, the playback will skip in the same place. This makes me think there is a break in the signal.

It seems to be happening less frequently lately. We used to notice it every few shows, now I only notice the skipping about once a week. The distortion shows up about once a day.


----------



## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

Rovingbar said:


> I sometimes see issues like b_c. Actually I have two problems, and they are usually on SAT HD Locals. About 80% of our viewing is recorded SAT HD locals. We rarely watch live TV anymore.
> 
> 1. Audio and video skips several seconds. I can rewind to see what was missed.
> 2. Brief video distortion (pixelation, box patterns on part of the screen, etc.).
> ...


Interesting, both you and kcmcnamara are in the Dallas TX area. Are you seeing it only on NBC5 like him or on other networks too? I'm in California and I'm only getting skipping on NBC (KCRA Sacramento).

I checked ABC and PBS HD and saw no skipping (but I didn't watch for very long). Seems to be just NBC so far. And the only reports (here and on another forum) are Dallas NBC and Sacramento NBC.

I've read that NBC and CBS are 1080i, while ABC and FOX are 720p. Maybe my 622 is having trouble decoding certain types of datastreams?


----------



## Rovingbar (Jan 25, 2005)

b_c said:


> I've read that NBC and CBS are 1080i, while ABC and FOX are 720p. Maybe my 622 is having trouble decoding certain types of datastreams?


It certainly could be something related to the data stream from the local broadcaster. I've been thinking about hooking up our OTA antenna, but just haven't gotten around to it. Anyway, I notice problems on all our local stations, but I don't keep track of which problem shows up on whitch station.


----------



## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

OK, so I recorded The Office and My Name is Earl last night and watched it later. Both had a bunch of skips. I tried to rewind and the skips were always in the exact same spot so apparently something stored in the stream is causing the decoder to hiccup. Again, this is NBC5 (KTXA) OTA in Dallas. I don't watch much live broadcast so I don't know if it was there initially or not.

I'm really tired of KTXA. One of the reasons I upgraded from a 942 to a 622 was to get rid of the reboots that OTA KTXA was causing. The 622 isn't rebooting but the skipping is very annoying - not to mention some of the dialog is being lost.


----------



## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I have the same problems with KTXA. There are skips in recordings as well as watching live. Seems to be worse here lately.


----------



## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

Is this problem only seen/heard on the 622 or is it happening on the opther VIP receive also? If it's the on the 622 only I would think that the problem is with the buffer/hard drive.


----------



## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

I only watch a 622 so I can't address the other receivers having the same problem. However, I don't believe it is related to the buffer/HDD. I have had my 622 since Feb. 2006 and this is something that just started recently. I frequently record 3 programs while watching 1 (or even 2 a couple of times) recorded program without normally having this skipping problem.


----------



## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

I just sent an email to dishquality about this. I'll post back if they respond.


----------



## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

kmcnamara said:


> I just sent an email to dishquality about this. I'll post back if they respond.


GREAT!!!! I sent one also and will post what they say.


----------



## Rovingbar (Jan 25, 2005)

I think us Dallas folks should contact KTXA and let them know we have problems.

Try http://cbs11tv.com/

The Contact Us link is on the left menu near the bottom. Remember to set the category as Technical or Brodcast issue so it gets to the right people. I told them I watch KTXA HD from Dish network. I'll let you know if I get a response.


----------



## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

ChuckA said:


> I only watch a 622 so I can't address the other receivers having the same problem. However, I don't believe it is related to the buffer/HDD. I have had my 622 since Feb. 2006 and this is something that just started recently. I frequently record 3 programs while watching 1 (or even 2 a couple of times) recorded program without normally having this skipping problem.


Why don't you think the skipping problem that I mentioned in post #1 is related to the buffer/hdd? Are you talking about the same problem? (random skipping of both audio and video during playback, but OK if you go back to view it again).


----------



## jimstick (Feb 5, 2007)

I just found this thread, and noticed it abruptly stops last november with no real answer to the problem. I have experienced the short skips mentioned herein while watching a delayed live recording. It was an OTA HD local I was watching, when I paused for a few minutes, then returned to watching the delayed program, I noticed several times there would be a short 1-2 second skip in audio and video, like described by brettbolt. If you rewind and play it again, the skip is not there. It definately is a playback issue, I can't see where it would matter which channel you are watching. I have only had my 622 for about a month, and have only noticed this once, but it was pretty often during the time it took me to catch up with Live TV.


----------



## stinkmeat (Jan 30, 2007)

I have this exact same problem. It seems to occur only on OTA recorded shows. It seems to happen a lot with Heroes although I have seen it on other shows as well. 

While watching HD recorded content it stutters for a moment and sometimes pixelates while the sound drops out for a couple of seconds. Then it resumes. If I watch it again, the skip is not there. 

I thought it was an overheating issue since my old Moxi used to drop out & pixelate sometimes when it got too hot, but I got a chilmat and there has been no improvement. 

Aren't all of the channels encoded the same way? Why would OTA content have an issue while sat content is fine? Especially considering that this is happening on recorded content only...How is recorded OTA content different that satellite recorded content?


----------



## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

stinkmeat said:


> Aren't all of the channels encoded the same way? Why would OTA content have an issue while sat content is fine? Especially considering that this is happening on recorded content only...How is recorded OTA content different that satellite recorded content?


Well first off you have MPEG4 and MPEG2 encoders in the mix. I would also suspect MPEG2 encoding is done by a number of different machines with a number of different firmware with a number of different encoding parameters. Not all channels are created equally.

Now.. as far as OTA... The encoding process is outside the hands of Dish and definitely is where a lot of channel specific issues do crop up. One thing to remember, the 622 does not do any encoding. it just places what it gets onto the drive.

The other thing to remember.. Live content is actually recorded content. The 622 is reading from the buffer (hard drive) as content is being added to the buffer. So a hard drive read and write is involved while watching live. It is not directly sent to the TV.

So how is OTA content different that Sat. Well one, the bitrate is usually higher. Two, it is encoded differently than what Dish is sending. My feeling is that OTA and Dish MPEG streams are similar in the fact they are MPEG but how they get there may or may not be the same process and the results do have some difference.


----------



## teachsac (Jun 10, 2006)

Stinkmeat,

You in the Sac area and referring to KCRA? If so, Dish is aware of it, can reproduce the problem, and I am waiting to hear back from them regarding a possible solution.

Scott


----------



## stinkmeat (Jan 30, 2007)

teachsac said:


> Stinkmeat,
> 
> You in the Sac area and referring to KCRA? If so, Dish is aware of it, can reproduce the problem, and I am waiting to hear back from them regarding a possible solution.
> 
> Scott


Yes I'm in Sacramento area and KCRA does seem to be the problem.

I guess that's all we can ask for...let me know what you hear back.

Ron - thanks for the clarification. I knew about MPEG2 vs MPEG4 but I didn't realize that within those there are variations as well. It still seems like once it's on the hard drive that unless some content is for some reason more taxing to display it shouldn't be having this problem. In any case I'm looking forward to not having this issue any more...


----------



## jimstick (Feb 5, 2007)

stinkmeat said:


> I have this exact same problem. It seems to occur only on OTA recorded shows. It seems to happen a lot with Heroes although I have seen it on other shows as well.
> 
> While watching HD recorded content it stutters for a moment and sometimes pixelates while the sound drops out for a couple of seconds. Then it resumes. If I watch it again, the skip is not there.
> 
> ...


This is *NOT* the exact same problem I am having. What I am talking about is there is just a portion of recorded material that is skipped. No delay, no pixelization, no dead air, no stutter, no nothing, it's just as though that
portion does not exist, but if you rewind and play it again, it's there. It's like if someone is talking, and they say, "That's what I'm talking about", you might see and hear,"That's I'm talking about", but when you rewind, you pick up the "What" that was missing the first time. Like it skipped over a part of the hard drive.


----------



## teachsac (Jun 10, 2006)

Jimstick,

This is the same problem problem we are having in Sacramento with our OTA station. There is now a new element in the equation here. YOU can be watching someting and it will skip ahead 3-5 seconds. If you rewind, the material is present. I am working with someone in engineering, and they are analyzing two 622's I sent them with this problem. They have been able to recreate the problem. No idea yet as to the problem. As soon as they get back to me, I will post the results.

Scott


----------



## jimstick (Feb 5, 2007)

Never mind.


----------



## jimstick (Feb 5, 2007)

teachsac said:


> Jimstick,
> 
> This is the same problem problem we are having in Sacramento with our OTA station. There is now a new element in the equation here. YOU can be watching someting and it will skip ahead 3-5 seconds. If you rewind, the material is present. I am working with someone in engineering, and they are analyzing two 622's I sent them with this problem. They have been able to recreate the problem. No idea yet as to the problem. As soon as they get back to me, I will post the results.
> 
> Scott


Heard anything yet?


----------



## stinkmeat (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm definitely still seeing the skips...and it is only on local channel 3 (KCRA).


----------

