# Skip back and skip ahead problems



## CantonCustomer (Jul 6, 2009)

722 receiver. The Skip Back button is supposed to skip back 10 seconds. Usually it works but sometimes it skips back several minutes. Skip Ahead is supposed to skip ahead 30 seconds. Sometimes it skips ahead several minutes. I searched the forum but saw no other mention of such problems. Is this a common problem or do I have a bad receiver?


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

Are you running L6.21? If so, you might want to read this...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=159750


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## CantonCustomer (Jul 6, 2009)

HDG said:


> Are you running L6.21?


I'm such a newbie that I'm not even sure what L6.21 means. Is this the version of the software or operating system that controls the 722 receiver? If so what's the best way to check it?


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## Henry (Nov 15, 2007)

CantonCustomer said:


> I'm such a newbie that I'm not even sure what L6.21 means. Is this the version of the software or operating system that controls the 722 receiver? If so what's the best way to check it?


Yes it is. Press _Menu_ twice and read down where it says _Software Version_. Press _Select_ to exit the menu and then press _View Live TV _to get back to viewing.


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

I've experienced this too, for some time now.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

MrC said:


> I've experienced this too, for some time now.


Ever since they changed the software to try and avoid violating TIVO's patent, the skip back and forward have been not really reliable. Before than it ususally was pretty good. One thing we "might" get back if Dish ever gives in and agrees to a license with Tivo.


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## CantonCustomer (Jul 6, 2009)

HDG said:


> Yes it is. Press _Menu_ twice and read down where it says _Software Version_. Press _Select_ to exit the menu and then press _View Live TV _to get back to viewing.


My software version is L652RMGD-N.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Then you don't have a 722 -- you have a 722k.


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## CantonCustomer (Jul 6, 2009)

BobaBird said:


> Then you don't have a 722 -- you have a 722k.


OK...but my question still stands. What's going on with my Skip Back/Skip Ahead key behavior?


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## jpk (Nov 5, 2008)

My skip forward and skip back have never been reliable on my ViP612s.

They don't reliably skip the same amount of time.

They don't reliably buffer video. They drop video. This problem occurs buffering live TV, not playing back recorded video.

Sometimes they freeze. The entire box goes unresponsive. After a few minutes, it unfreezes.

The boxes are running 6.03 but I didn't notice it getting any better or worse from 6.02.

My DirecTiVo NEVER did this.


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

The "trick modes" at one point long ago used to be very accurate. But things have changed significantly.

Now, trick modes often product random results, and influencing factors seem to be any/all of: HD/SD, live/DVR, unit's current workload, amount of compression, type of trick mode (eg. skip, step, ff/rew), phase of moon.

Because of the apparent randomness of what any given action will do, under any given circumstances, many of the trick modes have become useless. Try, for example, pausing, and single-stepping forward or backward to a desired frame. Its almost impossible, and the unit repeatedly jumps to its own choice of frame. It is like pushing on a rope.

Skip forward/back generally works on SD; on HD its hit or miss.

I've reported these bugs to Dish for over a year, and have all bug given up hope they will actually ever get fixed.


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## CantonCustomer (Jul 6, 2009)

jpk said:


> My DirecTiVo NEVER did this.


Can you use a real TiVo with Dish?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I believe so but it is a two box solution.


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## audiomaster (Jun 24, 2004)

If you do, don't tell Charlie!!!!


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

MrC said:


> The "trick modes" at one point long ago used to be very accurate. But things have changed significantly.
> 
> Now, trick modes often product random results, and influencing factors seem to be any/all of: HD/SD, live/DVR, unit's current workload, amount of compression, type of trick mode (eg. skip, step, ff/rew), phase of moon.
> 
> ...


IMO, it's a data compression issue. Try the same steps with an OTA channel. For me, the trick plays work fine, just not on a satellite delivered channel.


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

Kent Taylor said:


> IMO, it's a data compression issue. Try the same steps with an OTA channel. For me, the trick plays work fine, just not on a satellite delivered channel.


The technical reasons, for why such and such fails in meeting user expectations and advertised, documented functionality, are uninteresting. A sufficiently-sized buffer would resolve this problem.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

MrC said:


> The technical reasons, for why such and such fails in meeting user expectations and advertised, documented functionality, are uninteresting. A sufficiently-sized buffer would resolve this problem.


Gee, I wonder why they haven't thought of that.


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## MrC (Jun 6, 2005)

C'mon Kent. Stop the fencing and snide remakes.

There are plenty of reasons why the current hardware/software combination is not meeting user expectations re: trick modes (low cost, TiVo patents, etc.). There are plenty of other devices, both hardware- and software-based, the handle these modes very well.

So let's just agree there are plenty of reasons, but that users are dissatisfied with the results regardless.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

MrC said:


> C'mon Kent. Stop the fencing and snide remakes.
> 
> There are plenty of reasons why the current hardware/software combination is not meeting use expectations re: trick modes (low cost, TiVo patents, etc.). There are plenty of other devices, both hardware- and software-based, the handle these modes very well.
> 
> So let's just agree there are plenty of reasons, but that users are dissatisfied with the results regardless.


Don't you think your comment of "A sufficiently-sized buffer would resolve this problem." is a little trite? If it were that easy, don't you think the problem would have been solved a long time ago?
Also, my remakes aren't snide.


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## jpk (Nov 5, 2008)

Actually, the problem was solved a long time ago. The fact that Dish can't seem to get it to work doesn't mean it can't be done. It's been done.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

jpk said:


> Actually, the problem was solved a long time ago. The fact that Dish can't seem to get it to work doesn't mean it can't be done. It's been done.


OK, I'm not following here. Please explain how the problem was solved a long time ago.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Kent Taylor said:


> OK, I'm not following here. Please explain how the problem was solved a long time ago.


Read about the Tive vs Echostar lawsuit. Worked fine when they were using their origianl, violating, process for trick play.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Ok guys... Lets not turn this into a Tivo/Echostar lawsuit thread. We already have one of those. 

Also have to remember... We also have introduced MPEG4 over the same time frame. Though it is possible the workaround might have cause issues with the skipping.. I believe some have also said it works fine with OTA so the workaround might not be the cause though I do agree it is one of the possibilities.


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## Kevin Brown (Sep 4, 2005)

I have noticed this more and more lately too. I still have L618 on a 722. I think the behavior of the "trick" modes *was* better with previous software revs.


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## jpk (Nov 5, 2008)

Oh heavens, NeXTstations, ReplayTV, DirecTiVo all
got video timing controls to work reliably.
This has been a solved problem for 20 years now.


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## Charise (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm not on the latest software version, but my 722 skip forward/back are still very reliable except on a few stations--BBC America is the worst, sometimes skipping back to the beginning, though if I remember to press the button just once and wait for it, it works pretty well. If it doesn't work, I just FF or Rewind a bit.

I have the latest software version on my 622 and have no problems with the trick plays not working.


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## articos (Oct 10, 2006)

I just posted this same glitch in the 622 L6.21 thread at the top of the forum. Seems like it's much worse than it has been in a while again. It was fairly reliable again til this software update, after a previous software version being really bad with this in the past. And I agree, BBC America seems to be one of the worst offenders with this, for some reason.


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## Galaxie6411 (Aug 26, 2007)

Same here BBCA will skip back usually to when the commercial break started that I was trying to skip. This has happened to me for quite a few months on my 622 current L621. I'd swear it happens mainly when I get to hitting skip in rapid succession then hit back because I over ran the show. If I slow down it doesn't seem to be a problem.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

My Guess:

Variable bit rate on the data stream. 

Mpeg4 can vary widely. 
ota HD is Mpeg2 & I'm guessing a fixed bitrate.


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