# question



## satcrazy

Had a 32 inch CRT sony wega flat screen [ hybrid hd with 480p] big heavy beast.

Now own a 50 inch panasonic plasma, ST30.

Which one actually eats more electric?

Plasma has some energy saving settings, but they seem to hamper PQ so I choose not to use them.

I was told the crt ate more, but I'm not so sure.

Anyone know?


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## dmspen

I'm betting the plasma does. Your plasma pulls 341 watts, the Sony Wega about 145. So nearly double.
However, your screen real estate has gone from 491 sw inches to 1050!
The number of lines of resolution has increased dramatically!


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## satcrazy

dmspen said:


> I'm betting the plasma does. Your plasma pulls 341 watts, the Sony Wega about 145. So nearly double.
> However, your screen real estate has gone from 491 sw inches to 1050!
> The number of lines of resolution has increased dramatically!


Oh Oh, better stop using it as background noise. Thanks for the heads up!


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## mutelight

dmspen said:


> I'm betting the plasma does. Your plasma pulls 341 watts, the Sony Wega about 145. So nearly double.
> However, your screen real estate has gone from 491 sw inches to 1050!
> The number of lines of resolution has increased dramatically!


You also have to take into consideration that the power consumption is not consistent.

When the screen is dark the power consumption drastically drops, then an all white screen comes on, it draws much more power.

I have a 65" VT30 and used it quite a bit one month and it raised my power bill a noticeable amount. However, typically, since installing it I haven't seen a difference in my bill with a couple hours a day and on weekends.


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## satcrazy

mutelight said:


> You also have to take into consideration that the power consumption is not consistent.
> 
> When the screen is dark the power consumption drastically drops, then an all white screen comes on, it draws much more power.
> 
> I have a 65" VT30 and used it quite a bit one month and it raised my power bill a noticeable amount. However, typically, since installing it I haven't seen a difference in my bill with a couple hours a day and on weekends.


When you refer to a dark screen, do you mean when the tv is on?

In standby is 0.2 watts.

I found the specs, for a 50", it draws 341 watts, but is that per hour, or what?


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## John Williams

He means the plasma is only going to draw that 341 watts when there is a total white screen being displayed at the brightest picture settings (which you should not be using).

This TV was tested on cnet. They measured an average power of 215.77 watts.


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## spaul

I have seen on line at Best Buy a while back comparing 4 models and 2 were Panasonic plasmas P50S30& P50ST30 both rated as 106w when on. Compared to my Panasonic 42" plasma TH-42PZZU that is almost 6yrs old and uses max 578w.This makes the newer models much more energy efficient even at the specs mentioned from CNET .Which has me still looking to replace my 42" with the 50" model plasma for bigger screen size as well as having energy rating of approx of $27.00 a year for use without giving up the superior picture and color I'm use to with plasmas.


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## satcrazy

spaul said:


> I have seen on line at Best Buy a while back comparing 4 models and 2 were Panasonic plasmas P50S30& P50ST30 both rated as 106w when on. Compared to my Panasonic 42" plasma TH-42PZZU that is almost 6yrs old and uses max 578w.This makes the newer models much more energy efficient even at the specs mentioned from CNET .Which has me still looking to replace my 42" with the 50" model plasma for bigger screen size as well as having energy rating of approx of $27.00 a year for use without giving up the superior picture and color I'm use to with plasmas.


You will love the 50".

I thought I made a mistake by going too big, but everyone I asked said " go as big as you can" boy, were they right! Smaller than this would only be for a bedroom.
So I guess usage is somewhere in between. [161w?]

Thanks for the input, everyone!


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## CCarncross

satcrazy said:


> You will love the 50".
> 
> I thought I made a mistake by going too big, but everyone I asked said " go as big as you can" boy, were they right! Smaller than this would only be for a bedroom.
> So I guess usage is somewhere in between. [161w?]
> 
> Thanks for the input, everyone!


I'm already at 46" in my BR....now I want 50 0r 55....:lol:


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## Rich

CCarncross said:


> I'm already at 46" in my BR....now I want 50 0r 55....:lol:


I've got a 50" plasma in my bedroom. Looks pretty small compared to the 60" plasma I just bought. Been kicking myself ever since the 60" arrived. Should have got the 65" model.

Rich


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## spaul

Satcrazy I,agree that 50" will be great just have to do a little more softening of the wife first.It has been on going with me relating the pluses and mentioning how much the prices have come down since,I purchased the model in 2007.


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## harsh

satcrazy said:


> I found the specs, for a 50", it draws 341 watts, but is that per hour, or what?


Watts is power (joules/second). Watt-hours is energy used (joules/second*seconds).

If the unit consumes 160 watts, that gives you a watt-hour figure of 160W-h for each hour that it is on. If the TV is on 100 hours per month, that's 16kW-h of power going through your meter. If your power costs $0.12/kW-h, that works out to $19.20/month for electricity to operate the TV.


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## FHSPSU67

Slipped a decimal point. Should be $1.92..
Otherwise good explanation.


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## satcrazy

harsh said:


> Watts is power (joules/second). Watt-hours is energy used (joules/second*seconds).
> 
> If the unit consumes 160 watts, that gives you a watt-hour figure of 160W-h for each hour that it is on. If the TV is on 100 hours per month, that's 16kW-h of power going through your meter. If your power costs $0.12/kW-h, that works out to $19.20/month for electricity to operate the TV.





FHSPSU67 said:


> Slipped a decimal point. Should be $1.92..
> Otherwise good explanation.


Whew, for a moment there I thought I was spending close to $40 a month for TV!

Thanks for doing the math............... I never quite understood how to calculate usage into cost.

to Rich-
what did you get? [ model]


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## satcrazy

CCarncross said:


> I'm already at 46" in my BR....now I want 50 0r 55....:lol:


LOL.

Why stop at 55"?

From what I gather, you guys must have BIG bedrooms


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Whew, for a moment there I thought I was spending close to $40 a month for TV!
> 
> Thanks for doing the math............... I never quite understood how to calculate usage into cost.
> 
> to Rich-
> what did you get? [ model]


I got a Panny TC-P60ST30. Haven't regretted it.

Rich


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> LOL.
> 
> Why stop at 55"?
> 
> From what I gather, you guys must have BIG bedrooms


The 50" looks small after watching the 60". I put another 50" in the living room when I got the new 60" and that looks really small. Nobody but my granddaughter watches it, tho. I've also got three or four that are from ~ '06-'07 and no burn in, no problems. Very dependable.

Rich


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## mutelight

Rich said:


> The 50" looks small after watching the 60". I put another 50" in the living room when I got the new 60" and that looks really small. Nobody but my granddaughter watches it, tho. I've also got three or four that are from ~ '06-'07 and no burn in, no problems. Very dependable.
> 
> Rich


I have a 50" in my bedroom and a 65" plasma and 108" projector in the other room and I honestly would not want anything larger in my bedroom at least. (OK, well let's not get carried away, I would always take a larger screen but it doesn't seem too small.)


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## Rich

mutelight said:


> I have a 50" in my bedroom and a 65" plasma and 108" projector in the other room and I honestly would not want anything larger in my bedroom at least. (OK, well let's not get carried away, I would always take a larger screen but it doesn't seem too small.)


I could easily fit a 65" in my bedroom. I can't imagine what my wife would do.

Rich


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## satcrazy

Rich said:


> I could easily fit a 65" in my bedroom. I can't imagine what my wife would do.
> 
> Rich


Well, maybe it would depend on who's on the TV, LOL!

Have you ever read the "ST30" thread at AVS forums? I did before I bought my ST30, [ for homework purposes] and recently went back to see what was new, lot of people complaining about "pink tint" and "green globs" and buzz issue,[ fluctuating brightness also].

I guess I lucked out, occasionally I notice the "FBR" but I really don't want to mess with this TV. The picture seemed to get even better overtime. I never ran the slides [ are you kidding?]. I do have one question tho, maybe you know the answer to, In some programs [ more noticable SD than HD, I think?] You can have 2 people or more in one scene, and the complexion of one of the persons will be blotchy/reddish, and the others are fine. What is that? Do you notice that at all on your ST

[ I base my settings on complexion, seems to work for me]

Appreciate your input.


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## harsh

FHSPSU67 said:


> Slipped a decimal point. Should be $1.92..
> Otherwise good explanation.


Whoopsie.


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Well, maybe it would depend on who's on the TV, LOL!
> 
> Have you ever read the "ST30" thread at AVS forums? I did before I bought my ST30, [ for homework purposes] and recently went back to see what was new, lot of people complaining about "pink tint" and "green globs" and buzz issue,[ fluctuating brightness also].


Rarely go to AVS. Feel like an outsider.



> I guess I lucked out, occasionally I notice the "FBR" but I really don't want to mess with this TV. The picture seemed to get even better overtime. I never ran the slides [ are you kidding?]. I do have one question tho, maybe you know the answer to, In some programs [ more noticable SD than HD, I think?] You can have 2 people or more in one scene, and the complexion of one of the persons will be blotchy/reddish, and the others are fine. What is that? Do you notice that at all on your ST
> 
> [ I base my settings on complexion, seems to work for me]
> 
> Appreciate your input.


I do mine on complexions too. I also make sure the flags are truly red, white and blue. There is a part of the manual that touches on fixing the PQ, but I haven't done it yet.

I have three 1080p Panny plasmas and I see the complexions on different people aren't quite right at times on all of them. I think it's got a lot to do with how much makeup the people have on. That and the ambient light. Some of the shows seem to be filmed with colored filters. CSI:Miami is a perfect example of that.

I just bought a 42" plasma last year and it's just rounding into shape now. Don't use it much, but as time passes the PQ does get better. I didn't do the slides either. Too lazy.

Rich


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## satcrazy

Rich said:


> Rarely go to AVS. Feel like an outsider.
> 
> I do mine on complexions too. I also make sure the flags are truly red, white and blue. There is a part of the manual that touches on fixing the PQ, but I haven't done it yet.
> 
> I have three 1080p Panny plasmas and I see the complexions on different people aren't quite right at times on all of them. I think it's got a lot to do with how much makeup the people have on. That and the ambient light. Some of the shows seem to be filmed with colored filters. CSI:Miami is a perfect example of that.
> 
> I just bought a 42" plasma last year and it's just rounding into shape now. Don't use it much, but as time passes the PQ does get better. I didn't do the slides either. Too lazy.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I read somewhere about the makeup issue too. I only have 1 plasma, and nothing to realy compare it to. I guess if the complexion problem is across three tv's, I'm thinking then it is a source issue as well, and not TV specific. It seems I notice it more on SD broadcasts, and less on a real good HD broadcast [ like the world series, as example] or premium channels [ when I had them]. My bedroom crt lost a speaker last week, so it looks like I'll be shopping again.

AVS is good for info, I rarely posted there, although there were some friendly souls, they can be quite rabid at times. I just gleaned what I needed.

Thanks for the input!
chris


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Yeah, I read somewhere about the makeup issue too. I only have 1 plasma, and nothing to realy compare it to. I guess if the complexion problem is across three tv's, I'm thinking then it is a source issue as well, and not TV specific. It seems I notice it more on SD broadcasts, and less on a real good HD broadcast [ like the world series, as example] or premium channels [ when I had them]. My bedroom crt lost a speaker last week, so it looks like I'll be shopping again.
> 
> AVS is good for info, I rarely posted there, although there were some friendly souls, they can be quite rabid at times. I just gleaned what I needed.
> 
> Thanks for the input!
> chris


You're welcome.

Here's some more: I saw some ads for the show _Undercover Boss_ that was on this week and it piqued my interest so I recorded it. I watched it yesterday on my 42" 1080p set and the colors were perfect. Then, I went upstairs and watched it on the 60" set and it was virtually the same. All the complexions looked the same on both sets. That show is a reality show, if you haven't seen it, and they didn't apply all that makeup to the very diverse group of folks who made up the show. The fast food shops the show took place in (Rally and Checkers, never heard of them) were loaded with red and it came over perfectly on both sets.

Last night we watched an episode of _Revenge_ on ABC, broadcast in 720p. It was very obvious that it wasn't in 1080i, didn't have the sharpness of the content on CBS or NBC. Never noticed that on my 42" or 50" 1080p sets.

Rich


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## satcrazy

Rich said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Here's some more: I saw some ads for the show _Undercover Boss_ that was on this week and it piqued my interest so I recorded it. I watched it yesterday on my 42" 1080p set and the colors were perfect. Then, I went upstairs and watched it on the 60" set and it was virtually the same. All the complexions looked the same on both sets. That show is a reality show, if you haven't seen it, and they didn't apply all that makeup to the very diverse group of folks who made up the show. The fast food shops the show took place in (Rally and Checkers, never heard of them) were loaded with red and it came over perfectly on both sets.
> 
> Last night we watched an episode of _Revenge_ on ABC, broadcast in 720p. It was very obvious that it wasn't in 1080i, didn't have the sharpness of the content on CBS or NBC. Never noticed that on my 42" or 50" 1080p sets.
> 
> Rich


thanks, I will pay closer attention, and tune in undercover boss and see how it appears on my 50st30.

I don't know what service provider you have, so how can you tell when a program is being broadcast in 720?

I watched an old rerun of NYPD blue last week [ of course it's not HD] and it had the "blotchy compexion on one person, but not the other" issue.
So, makeup , or resolution, or both? I'm kind of thinking both.

I take it you watched "revenge" on your 60"st30 ?

Also, if memory serves me, you stated on a previous post you didn't do much with the settings on your new 60", correct?


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## TBoneit

Rich said:


> ...
> The fast food shops the show took place in (Rally and Checkers, never heard of them) were loaded with red and it came over perfectly on both sets.
> 
> Rich


According to my brother there is a Checkers in Springfield in the center island of Route 22 if you are curious. Which means you need to be in the left hand lane when the center island starts.

Cheers


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> thanks, I will pay closer attention, and tune in undercover boss and see how it appears on my 50st30.
> 
> I don't know what service provider you have, so how can you tell when a program is being broadcast in 720?


I have DirecTv. I've usually been able to tell if a program is in 720p or 1080i on any set, but I've never seen it so obvious as it is on the 60" set. Guess it gets more noticeable as you go up in size on the TVs. If you look at the remote for your TV, somewhere in the middle of the remote you'll see an "Info" button. Click on that and it will tell you what resolution it is receiving.



> I watched an old rerun of NYPD blue last week [ of course it's not HD] and it had the "blotchy compexion on one person, but not the other" issue.
> So, makeup , or resolution, or both? I'm kind of thinking both.


I think I know what you mean. That's just how SD shows up on some of the programs. I don't watch many SD programs.



> I take it you watched "revenge" on your 60"st30?


Yes and we watched a show on Fox last night and it was the same way. CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i and Fox and ABC broadcast in 720p. No idea why.



> Also, if memory serves me, you stated on a previous post you didn't do much with the settings on your new 60", correct?


Yup, I'm gonna give it a month or so to burn in and then I'll see what corrections I need. Fortunately, I have two other Panny 1080p sets to compare it to. You do need to factor that burn in time into setting them up.

I didn't like the picture on my 50" 1080p set when I got it and after a couple months I reset it to factory settings and it has settled down so much I've never changed any of them.

Rich


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## Rich

TBoneit said:


> According to my brother there is a Checkers in Springfield in the center island of Route 22 if you are curious. Which means you need to be in the left hand lane when the center island starts.
> 
> Cheers


Huh. Never noticed it. In that section of 22, I'm usually in fear of my life and keep my eyes on the road. That middle island is dangerous.

Rich


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## satcrazy

[/QUOTE]


Rich said:


> I have DirecTv. I've usually been able to tell if a program is in 720p or 1080i on any set, but I've never seen it so obvious as it is on the 60" set. Guess it gets more noticeable as you go up in size on the TVs. If you look at the remote for your TV, somewhere in the middle of the remote you'll see an "Info" button. Click on that and it will tell you what resolution it is receiving.
> 
> "Well, I've got dish, and the info button only shows what satellite your on. unless I'm missing something, but so far I can't find it"


I think I know what you mean. That's just how SD shows up on some of the programs. I don't watch many SD programs.

"Normally I don't either, unless it's something I prefer."

[/QUOTE]Yes and we watched a show on Fox last night and it was the same way. CBS and NBC broadcast in 1080i and Fox and ABC broadcast in 720p. No idea why.

"Here is what has me thinking: I too watched fox [" house" and it had the blotchy complexion issue] then "alcatraz" No blotchy compexion issue. Then news at 10 [ Local, and they wear enough makeup! No blotchy issue. All commercials across the three programs were perfect. So, I've come to the conclusion it is how the particular program is filmed that determines the complexion issue. Like you previously stated, could be lighting, filters, etc.... so your deduction was spot on. Resolution had nothing to do with it."

Yup, I'm gonna give it a month or so to burn in and then I'll see what corrections I need. Fortunately, I have two other Panny 1080p sets to compare it to. You do need to factor that burn in time into setting them up.

I didn't like the picture on my 50" 1080p set when I got it and after a couple months I reset it to factory settings and it has settled down so much I've never changed any of them.

Rich[/QUOTE]

Is your 60 the only ST30 model? Would you buy another 60" knowing it shows more flaws? [ I read that last year before I bought mine, that the bigger the screen, the better the chance of seeing more flaws]


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Is your 60 the only ST30 model? Would you buy another 60" knowing it shows more flaws? [ I read that last year before I bought mine, that the bigger the screen, the better the chance of seeing more flaws]


No, the ST30s come in a 65" version and a 50" version and I'd imagine they come in a 42" version.

The flaws aren't in the TVs as much as they are in the broadcasts. Can't fault Panny for that. If all the channels broadcast in 1080i/p, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I've found that after the initial shock of seeing the difference between the 1080i and the 720p broadcasts, I quickly get used to it.

Now for my big question: Do big LCD sets have this same problem?

Rich


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## satcrazy

Rich said:


> No, the ST30s come in a 65" version and a 50" version and I'd imagine they come in a 42" version.
> 
> The flaws aren't in the TVs as much as they are in the broadcasts. Can't fault Panny for that. If all the channels broadcast in 1080i/p, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I've found that after the initial shock of seeing the difference between the 1080i and the 720p broadcasts, I quickly get used to it.
> 
> Now for my big question: Do big LCD sets have this same problem?
> 
> Rich


Sorry, I should have asked, is your 60" ST30 the only ST30 set you own?

That's what I have. A 50" ST30.

Good question about the big LCD's, maybe someone will chime in......


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Sorry, I should have asked, is your 60" ST30 the only ST30 set you own?
> 
> That's what I have. A 50" ST30.


Yup, have no idea what models the other two 1080p sets are. Would have to find the manuals. I think my 50" set is a...I dunno, I can't move it and I can't remember. I bought it a few years ago because I got a great price on it.



> Good question about the big LCD's, maybe someone will chime in......


Be nice if someone would....

Rich


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## mutelight

I had a 46" LCD and my 52" LCoS prior to my two plasmas and projector running at 108" and can say that the difference between 720p and 1080i content has always been apparent.


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## satcrazy

mutelight said:


> I had a 46" LCD and my 52" LCoS prior to my two plasmas and projector running at 108" and can say that the difference between 720p and 1080i content has always been apparent.


I'm realy curious, how would you compare the Lcos to plasma?

I've read alot about lcd vs plasma, but not much on lcos vs plasma.

what are the drawbacks to lcos?


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## John Williams

satcrazy said:


> I'm realy curious, how would you compare the Lcos to plasma?
> 
> I've read alot about lcd vs plasma, but not much on lcos vs plasma.
> 
> what are the drawbacks to lcos?


You do realize that LCoS is a projection technology, NOT flat screen. You can't really compare the 2 equally.
The 52" he spoke of was an old 52" Rear Projection TV. The only rear projection TVs still available 'new' these days, is Mitsubishi's DLP sets.
In front projection, JVC seems to be the favored LCoS. They do look rather good when setup properly.


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## harsh

John Williams said:


> You do realize that LCoS is a projection technology, NOT flat screen. You can't really compare the 2 equally.


It is perfectly reasonable to compare the picture on a flat screen versus a front projector versus a rear projector versus a CRT.

What you require may be limited by space but picture quality has no dimensions.


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## mutelight

satcrazy said:


> I'm realy curious, how would you compare the Lcos to plasma?
> 
> I've read alot about lcd vs plasma, but not much on lcos vs plasma.
> 
> what are the drawbacks to lcos?


For me there is no comparison regarding brightness, black levels, and viewing angles.

However, LCoS is a great technology that is somewhat like a hybrid of DLP and LCD projection with both of their strengths combined. The size for price ratio was great and it exhibited no input lag for gaming.

Now that I have two V-series plasmas, I could never go back but at the time, it made for a fantastic rear projection display.


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## John Williams

harsh said:


> It is perfectly reasonable to compare the picture on a flat screen versus a front projector versus a rear projector versus a CRT.
> 
> What you require may be limited by space but picture quality has no dimensions.


Not just space. Remember when you deal with ANY projection system (front or rear), lighting in the room becomes a BIG factor. Also viewing angles become very important.
Yes you can compare picture quality, they are all video displays after all. But the use for flat panels vs. projection is very different. So again I say, not a fair comparison unless all environmental and location parameters are meet for the projection display.
Projection systems are far more limited in where and how they can be installed. That usually means I see projection systems install where they shouldn't and/or watched in ways they shouldn't. Then the customer complains about the picture quality when it's not the technologies fault. It's the fault of the uneducated person who bought and/or installed the wrong kind of video system, or at least didn't properly plan for it.


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## satcrazy

John Williams said:


> You do realize that LCoS is a projection technology, NOT flat screen. You can't really compare the 2 equally.The 52" he spoke of was an old 52" Rear Projection TV. The only rear projection TVs still available 'new' these days, is Mitsubishi's DLP sets.
> In front projection, JVC seems to be the favored LCoS. They do look rather good when setup properly.


I guess I do now.
learn something new everyday.


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## satcrazy

harsh said:


> It is perfectly reasonable to compare the picture on a flat screen versus a front projector versus a rear projector versus a CRT.
> 
> What you require may be limited by space but picture quality has no dimensions.


I thought so.

Mutelight's last line tells me all I need to know

thanks, guys


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