# Can't move boxes?



## nitty316 (Aug 27, 2008)

I have 7 HD boxes through DTV in my house. I record 3 shows on Monday nights and as you all know our DVR's only allow us to record 2 shows at a time. So I unhooked one of my boxes and moved into my main living room to watch 24. Everything was fine. I then moved it back to the normal location and got an error saying the Hard Drive was having issues. I have moved boxes around and never had an issue. Anyway, so I called DirecTV today and since I have the insurance plan was happy to know that I would be taken care of.

That's where I was wrong.

I told the rep that I had moved the box to a different room to watch my DVR. She told me I voided my insurance plan and now it was not covered. They were extremely kind and told me they would replace my box, but the new box would not be covered under the plan. I was real frustrated with this. Had I not told her about me moving the box I would have been covered. I asked to talk to a Sup. The Supervisor would not help me and told me he would send me a copy of the agreement. I told him that's great but was never told I couldn't move my box. In the end I had to get to the cancellation people to tell me they would keep my box under the plan. It was a frustrating deal. Either way, do not move your boxes. It voids anything you have.

So the point is I'm thankful they took care of me. But, I did learn I can't move my boxes around. I was frustrated that the department I talked to for my protection plan was as rude as they were. The Sup I got told me they never make exceptions and only go by the rules. Then he said he could cancel my account. I just don't get it sometimes.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Sounds like you'd LOVE the multi Room Viewing upgrade when it comes to your market.
With it you can watch any recording from any room that has a HD receiver [DVR or not].


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

nitty316 said:


> I have 7 HD boxes through DTV in my house. I record 3 shows on Monday nights and as you all know our DVR's only allow us to record 2 shows at a time. So I unhooked one of my boxes and moved into my main living room to watch 24. Everything was fine. I then moved it back to the normal location and got an error saying the Hard Drive was having issues. I have moved boxes around and never had an issue. Anyway, so I called DirecTV today and since I have the insurance plan was happy to know that I would be taken care of.
> 
> That's where I was wrong.
> 
> ...


I think you need to do a reboot and pull the power when the HDD spins down but that should not mess up the HDD as long as you don't drop the Box.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I am/was unaware of any such restriction, and would like to see it in writing personally.

However, Multi-Room Viewing (MRV) is the answer to your problem. You can view recordings from any HD DVR on any other HD DVR or HD Receiver (except H20) that you have network connections between. Now MRV is in beta and once it comes out of beta you will need to subscribe to the feature. But at the moment it remains free in the test mode.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

One time I was talking to a CSR about activating a receiver, and I mentioned I was moving my owned box to a different room. I can't remember most of the conversation, but I mentioned that I knew not to move my leased box when moving boxes. They told me it would be OK if I called in and told them that I would be moving it, they just wanted to know about it.

Later I got a black TV and wanted to move my leased box to the room it was in to match. So I called D* and told them my intent.

The CSR might as well said "I don't give a d*** what you do with it, we don't care" the way he responded. I felt like I just was wasting our time even bothering to call, I was just doing what I was told to do by another CSR. He went on to tell me that the only issue would be if I disconnected it for "a long time" it would need to be refreshed online. I told him I had already moved it  and it was working fine.

We hung up and I changed the label on my account online next time I was logged in. I have the PP too.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Oh when I was on the phone with the second CSR, he told me the part in the agreement about moving the box meant to a different address, and I was free to move my box around without calling in again.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

carl6 said:


> I am/was unaware of any such restriction, and would like to see it in writing personally.
> 
> However, Multi-Room Viewing (MRV) is the answer to your problem. You can view recordings from any HD DVR on any other HD DVR or HD Receiver (except H20) that you have network connections between. Now MRV is in beta and once it comes out of beta you will need to subscribe to the feature. But at the moment it remains free in the test mode.


from the lease agreement....


> You are responsible for the loss of or any damage to the DIRECTV equipment that you have leased from DIRECTV. You shall have no right to sell, give away, transfer, pledge, mortgage, remove,* relocate,* alter or tamper with the DIRECTV equipment at any time. DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.


more than once i've closed a service call 'customer caused' when a customer moved an IRD and didn't know what they were doing, or accidentally dropped it, or didin't hook it back up properly.....


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Just another reason I think its a bad idea to pay for a protection plan. The leased receivers are covered without it, and for what you pay, you could buy a new dish every year, since thats the only thing thats really covered. Unless you are just totally uncapable of tweeking a dish and dont have any friends that could help, save your money.

Ive never read anywhere in the user agreement you couldnt move a box from one room to another, just not from one ADDRESS to another. Geeze, what next?


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> Oh when I was on the phone with the second CSR, he told me the part in the agreement about moving the box meant to a different address, and I was free to move my box around without calling in again.


your right....

that provision is mostly the 'you break it, you buy it' clause for Directv. They don't care if you move an IRD around your home, right up until you take something that was working, and cause a truck roll because you moved an IRD, or a PI.


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## bleggett29 (Feb 2, 2008)

Davenlr said:


> Just another reason I think its a bad idea to pay for a protection plan. The leased receivers are covered without it, and for what you pay, you could buy a new dish every year, since thats the only thing thats really covered. Unless you are just totally uncapable of tweeking a dish and dont have any friends that could help, save your money.
> 
> Ive never read anywhere in the user agreement you couldnt move a box from one room to another, just not from one ADDRESS to another. Geeze, what next?


About a year ago I canceled the PP after they refused to replace an owned DirecTivo stating that I voided the unit by moving it from the living room to a bedroom after upgrading to HD(2 years earlier). Installer wouldn't move the DTivo. The DTivo was doing random reboots for several weeks and finally just stopped booting. The thing that pissed me off was that the DTivo worked just fine for over 2 years in it's "new" location and the PP dept. wouldn't budge. The unit was 4 or 5 years old at the time. It's not like the hard drive will last for ever. 
On the bright side, after going in circles with them, I was able to get them to agree to give me a $100 credit for the HR22 I got from BB after hanging up with the PP dept.
As an afterthought--Are people moving their equipment exempt from the PP "moving" clause if it is done via Movers Connection?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

netraa said:


> more than once i've closed a service call 'customer caused' when a customer moved an IRD and didn't know what they were doing, or accidentally dropped it, or didin't hook it back up properly.....


You mean you wouldn't even hook it up right for him if he connected it wrong? Gee, how hard would that have been for you?


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Reading that contract clause, it seems to me the context of relocate is not meant to mean within your own house. It's sufficiently vague to be an issue, though, and this has never occurred to me before. My wife and I have 5 bedrooms and a game room, she likes to switch things around a lot, and I have moved STBs quite a bit. Hell, by the strictest reading, you can't even rearrange furniture, if it results in your STB moving at all. This can't possibly be right.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

paulman182 said:


> You mean you wouldn't even hook it up right for him if he connected it wrong? Gee, how hard would that have been for you?


Ohh, no. When i leave the system is working perfectly, and everything get's a once over, from the dish to the switch, to any wiring on the outside of the house, and all the jumpers on the house. If you think it's bad when we get a sinX on a install, you should see the uglystorm that happens when we have a repeat service in X days.

that doesn't change the fact that it still get's closed customer caused.

There are metrics out there that determine how much techs get paid and these effect those metrics. For example.... I went and did a simple little 2 box install the other day, HDdvr in the living room, standard in the bedroom. The next morning the wife closes the car door on her foot, and falls down the retaining wall on their driveway. End result, 1 broken left foot, one broken right leg, and one broken left arm. The wive is pretty much bed bound so the husband decides to be nice and drag the HDtv into the bedroom, take the dvr, the tv, _AND_ the power inserter into the bedroom and drags the standard into the living room. Well.... now the system doesn't work, they call Directv, I get backcharged for half my job's pay, and a huge hickie sin3 (service in 3 days) on my work record for the next 30 days. Sin 1-3's also get you a call from the regional manager, in person, asking you what you did wrong. Let me tell you how much you really, really hate getting those calls. So, the job should have netted me... let's say 40 quid, but, I got backcharged 20 quid for the service call, I also lose out on another 40 quid job because i have to roll out on this service call..... so in the end... that job cost *me* 20 quid to put it in.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Reading that contract clause, it seems to me the context of relocate is not meant to mean within your own house. It's sufficiently vague to be an issue, though, and this has never occurred to me before. My wife and I have 5 bedrooms and a game room, she likes to switch things around a lot, and I have moved STBs quite a bit. Hell, by the strictest reading, you can't even rearrange furniture, if it results in your STB moving at all. This can't possibly be right.


This is the way I explain it to my customers....

It does not void your cars warranty to change your own oil.

HOWEVER, if in the process of changing your own oil, you forget to put the drain plug back in, or put the wrong type, or quantity of oil in, and then proceed to blow the engine because you messed up... The dealership is going to laugh you right off the lot if you expect the car warranty to cover it.


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## Garyunc (Oct 8, 2006)

nitty316 said:


> I have 7 HD boxes through DTV in my house. I record 3 shows on Monday nights and as you all know our DVR's only allow us to record 2 shows at a time. So I unhooked one of my boxes and moved into my main living room to watch 24. Everything was fine. I then moved it back to the normal location and got an error saying the Hard Drive was having issues. I have moved boxes around and never had an issue. Anyway, so I called DirecTV today and since I have the insurance plan was happy to know that I would be taken care of.
> 
> That's where I was wrong.
> 
> ...


So why even tell them you moved it? It is not working is all they need to know. You are paying them $72 extra a year so they take care of problems. It is not like you broke it on purpose and is doubtful that you caused the problem by moving it.


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## woj027 (Sep 3, 2007)

So, my HR20 died earlier this week, they are shipping a new (refurb) receiver to me (today I hope). Using the logic of moving it, I shouldn't be able to open the box and install it myself. I think the quote above with regards to "relocate" is a bit strong. People rearrange their living room, bedroom, and entertainment rooms all the time, is someone implying that I need to call DirecTV to move my receiver?


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

True, but no phone tech can make an assessment on an unseen product like that. The moving may or may not have had any impact whatsoever on the STB. Perhaps the STB was failing already, and the power cycle necessary for the move just pushed it over the edge. It just stinks that there is such an out like that.

These games are tiresome. DirecTV plays games, forcing their customers to play games, and the only people that win on this are um.... nobody!



netraa said:


> This is the way I explain it to my customers....
> 
> It does not void your cars warranty to change your own oil.
> 
> HOWEVER, if in the process of changing your own oil, you forget to put the drain plug back in, or put the wrong type, or quantity of oil in, and then proceed to blow the engine because you messed up... The dealership is going to laugh you right off the lot if you expect the car warranty to cover it.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

If you follow the agreement to the letter, you can't even REMOVE a receiver. So you're breaking the agreement just disconnecting a box yourself and sending it back for replacement or whatever. They're ASKING for truck rolls because you can't touch your box, not avoiding them because you might drop it or connect it wrong.

One way to avoid any issues is whenever you relocate boxes, go online and update the location description to either reflect the new location or be so vague you can't tell where a particular box is located.

In any case, such language is really just to take them off the hook if you break the box while moving it. I'm sure they don't really care otherwise.


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## Wisegoat (Aug 17, 2006)

Same thing happened to me. We talked about it here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2350883#post2350883

Suffice to say, I have all of my boxes listed online as HOME. That way they do not know where any one box is located. And they cannot say I moved them!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

IMHO, calling DirecTV to send out a tech just because I bought a new entertainment center and need to disconnect everything a move it to the other side of the room isn’t what that clause is supposed to prevent.

On the other hand, having three DVRs at my house and giving one to my daughter who moved three miles away and keeping it on my account is the kind of scenario this is supposed to prevent.

Mike


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I agree the interpretation of "relocate" is meant to be from one address to another, and is not meant to be within a given address. As mdavej pointed out, following that to the letter does not even allow a customer to disconnect and ship a receiver back to DirecTV (which DirecTV requires all the time). Anything that had to be done would require a truck roll. By the strictest interpretation, I could not even move a receiver to dust underneath it.


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## Tonedeaf (Jun 13, 2006)

Garyunc said:


> So why even tell them you moved it? It is not working is all they need to know. You are paying them $72 extra a year so they take care of problems. It is not like you broke it on purpose and is doubtful that you caused the problem by moving it.


Bingo!! Confused why people give up so much info so easily


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Tonedeaf said:


> Bingo!! Confused why people give up so much info so easily


The OP was probably responding to a question or trying to complete in the description of the problem and spoke before he thought about it. Hey, it happens. We should stop pointing it out.

The big point is (IMHO) that the user agreement isn't meant to keep us from moving a receiver to a different room. Since it may have been damaged in that move is real issue here...not that it was moved.

Mike


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## MudMover (Jun 22, 2008)

IMHO, the only thing the OP did wrong was volunteer the information about the movement of the box. Having worked for the government for so long...I've learned the NAVY way (Never Again Volunteer Yourself)...or in this case..information. It's not dishonest if you don't volunteer information.


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## nitty316 (Aug 27, 2008)

Yeah guys I even told them after being on the phone with them that in future I should just lie about that stuff. I honestly had no clue I couldn’t disconnect a box and move it from one room to another literally 15 feet away. In future I know not to give them any information. It’s sad, but that’s the way it has to be apparently.


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## Wisegoat (Aug 17, 2006)

MudMover said:


> IMHO, the only thing the OP did wrong was volunteer the information about the movement of the box. Having worked for the government for so long...I've learned the NAVY way (Never Again Volunteer Yourself)...or in this case..information. It's not dishonest if you don't volunteer information.





nitty316 said:


> Yeah guys I even told them after being on the phone with them that in future I should just lie about that stuff. I honestly had no clue I couldn't disconnect a box and move it from one room to another literally 15 feet away. In future I know not to give them any information. It's sad, but that's the way it has to be apparently.


Sad to say, but this is the way that DirecTV is forcing us to call for service. The last tech I had out stated flat out "Never tell them anything. Tell them the box does not power on. No lights, nothing. That is the only way to get them to replace the box." Especially if we have already done all of the troubleshooting that their scripts will have them try.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Wisegoat said:


> Sad to say, but this is the way that DirecTV is forcing us to call for service. The last tech I had out stated flat out "Never tell them anything. Tell them the box does not power on. No lights, nothing. That is the only way to get them to replace the box." Especially if we have already done all of the troubleshooting that their scripts will have them try.


Hah! When I called and told them a box didn't do anything they had me *move it* and try a different room!


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## CopyCat (Jan 21, 2008)

I would have to state that if you ever move a box and it fails to work after the move, just don't tell them.............

They would have no way to know it was moved so why tell.

It just doesn't work......what should I do ?


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## Kansas Zephyr (Jun 30, 2007)

[RETORICAL] If an end-user can't relocate an IRD within the home...then why can you change the IRD's room location via D*'s website, under "My Receivers"? [/RETORICAL]


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## prushing (Feb 14, 2007)

You can move them within your home without any problems. I had a box go dead and the CSR asked if I had tried moving the other box to make sure it wasn't the cable.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

The relocate clause in the PP is so that you don't take the receiver with you to another location, like if you have a summer home, or to someone else's house that might have service to use it there. I've had conversations with the PP department about this and as long as you keep them informed as to where the receiver is in the house (via the location field on the website) you can move a receiver in your house.

Whichever CSR and supervisor that the OP was dealing with were very wrong in their assessment of the situation.

- Merg


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

I've been reading this thread with amusement-especially since I have been a DirecTV subscriber since 2000 when you were expected to take the receivers and dish home with you from the store and install the dish and then the receivers in any room you wanted or (OPTIONALLY) arrange for a "professional" install!

Of course, nowadays the technical expectation of customers has been reduced to knowing how to dial DirecTV on the phone (and open their wallet). Naturally, this does not apply to folks who regularly read the forums on DBSTALK.COM! 

To tell a customer that their "protection plan" coverage was invalidated because they moved a receiver from one room to another is ridiculous. One of the elementary troubleshooting steps is to try a receiver in a different room if a particular cable/multiswitch port is suspected of trouble.

The original poster must have encountered one of the CSR's who do not represent DirecTV's company policy or their "customer promise" which is often quoted on their web site, email distributions, and subscriber bills.

I would elevate this situation up to the supervisor level or higher.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I hope nobody get into trouble for moving a receiver from Best Buy to their home


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

bobnielsen said:


> I hope nobody get into trouble for moving a receiver from Best Buy to their home


And doing the self-install which would be considered contrary to the strict interpretation. !rolling

Mike


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## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

I plan on installing a SWM dish so I can have only one cable going to my DVR (SD). If I sent it back would they send me another SWM capable SD DVR if I told them i had a SWM dish? When I had the system installed they put up an 18" dish. When the installer left I put up a Phase III dish.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

the directv site no longer lists locations of receivers..so how do i know where my receivers are supposed to be? Plus my hdtivo was bought by me before leasing so i self installed and they wouldnt know


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

newsposter said:


> the directv site no longer lists locations of receivers..so how do i know where my receivers are supposed to be? Plus my hdtivo was bought by me before leasing so i self installed and they wouldnt know


When looking under your account, select My Equipment. In the section for My Receivers, there should be a box to the right of each of your receivers that specifies where the receiver is located.

- Merg


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

gomezma1 said:


> I plan on installing a SWM dish so I can have only one cable going to my DVR (SD). If I sent it back would they send me another SWM capable SD DVR if I told them i had a SWM dish? When I had the system installed they put up an 18" dish. When the installer left I put up a Phase III dish.


You would need a CSR to set the SWM flag on your account. That way, if a replacement receiver is sent, they will make sure it is SWM compatible. In your case with SD, you would get an R16 or an R22 (if you currently have an R22).

If you self-installed the dish, that is not always the easiest thing to have done though. You might need to talk to a couple of different CSR's to get it taken care of.

- Merg


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

BUT, the deal is, the stupid clause is so vaguely worded, it allows these under-thinking front line reps to pull stunts like what started this thread. It basically gives DirecTV an out at any point that want to take it.



The Merg said:


> The relocate clause in the PP is so that you don't take the receiver with you to another location, like if you have a summer home, or to someone else's house that might have service to use it there. I've had conversations with the PP department about this and as long as you keep them informed as to where the receiver is in the house (via the location field on the website) you can move a receiver in your house.
> 
> Whichever CSR and supervisor that the OP was dealing with were very wrong in their assessment of the situation.
> 
> - Merg


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

gomezma1 said:


> I plan on installing a SWM dish so I can have only one cable going to my DVR (SD). If I sent it back would they send me another SWM capable SD DVR if I told them i had a SWM dish? When I had the system installed they put up an 18" dish. When the installer left I put up a Phase III dish.





The Merg said:


> You would need a CSR to set the SWM flag on your account...If you self-installed the dish, that is not always the easiest thing to have done though. You might need to talk to a couple of different CSR's to get it taken care of.


What model SD DVR do you have now? D* won't usually just swap current boxes to a SWM compatible model.

Merg is right, the SWM flag is a difficult issue, and I've personally found that it can be a can of worms... I've dealt with "setting" the SWM flag on my account and even after being told it was set repeatedly, it turned out it was not... Long story short I discovered the flag is designed to be set when a SWM is installed on a D* workorder. There are alternative ways to set it, albeit not easy from D*'s point of view. Should you decide to pursue the issue a frontline CSR will not be of much help, I finally received good info from an access card dept sup.

Your mileage will certainly vary with this issue, and the true test of the SWM flag is when replacement equipment arrives. You might have to go round and round with a CSR as they repeatedly send you legacy boxes which are of no use to you...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> BUT, the deal is, the stupid clause is so vaguely worded, it allows these under-thinking front line reps to pull stunts like what started this thread. It basically gives DirecTV an out at any point that want to take it.


It's what lawyers do. 

It's no different with anyother provider. They have the same kinds of provisions. They're always vague and favor the service provider.

It's not like this in unique to DirecTV. :grin:

Mike


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Oh, of course, I'm not suggesting this is unique to DirecTV.



MicroBeta said:


> It's what lawyers do.
> 
> It's no different with anyother provider. They have the same kinds of provisions. They're always vague and favor the service provider.
> 
> ...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Oh, of course, I'm not suggesting this is unique to DirecTV.


Yeah, I understand. I really just wanted to point that out to the thread as a whole. :grin:

Mike


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## Dave DFW (Jun 11, 2008)

Good idea to vague on the locations, but watch out you don't screw yourself if you have more than one dvr and want to schedule a recording away from home on your phone.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I just bought an HR24-500 and I will be installing it in place of my HR21-700 with a 1 TB EeSATA Drive. I will be replacing the 500 Gig Internal Drive with a 2 TB WD20EADS Drive before Activating it. I will be telling Directv where it will be located and that they have the wrong Room assigned to the HR21-700 which should be FBEDROOM instead of DENHR21 so they can change it in their records.

I think my Lawyer would have a Ball dragging them into Court with that Vague Language in their Contract and the Judge would definitely side with me as they do not like Vague Language and they usually do not side with the Large Corporation that pulls legal tricks such as this.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

yeah, but, see, the cost of litigation is soooo high, nobody really does that on such relatively trivial issues. Of course, lawyers work on contingency, but even that requires a really clear cut case with the potential to go class action, or with a whole lotta punitive damages possible.

\


richierich said:


> I just bought an HR24-500 and I will be installing it in place of my HR21-700 with a 1 TB EeSATA Drive. I will be replacing the 500 Gig Internal Drive with a 2 TB WD20EADS Drive before Activating it. I will be telling Directv where it will be located and that they have the wrong Room assigned to the HR21-700 which should be FBEDROOM instead of DENHR21 so they can change it in their records.
> 
> I think my Lawyer would have a Ball dragging them into Court with that Vague Language in their Contract and the Judge would definitely side with me as they do not like Vague Language and they usually do not side with the Large Corporation that pulls legal tricks such as this.


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## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Great point.



Dave DFW said:


> Good idea to vague on the locations, but watch out you don't screw yourself if you have more than one dvr and want to schedule a recording away from home on your phone.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

JeffBowser said:


> yeah, but, see, the cost of litigation is soooo high, nobody really does that on such relatively trivial issues. Of course, lawyers work on contingency, but even that requires a really clear cut case with the potential to go class action, or with a whole lotta punitive damages possible.


Yes, that is why it in Nice to have a Friend who is also a Lawyer. I do favors for him and he does likewise for me.

He would love to take this case on just for fun as he loves Vague Language written into Contracts as Corporations very rarely ever win because Judges know what they Legal Department is up to and would throw it out in a Heartbeat.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

richierich said:


> I just bought an HR24-500 and I will be installing it in place of my HR21-700 with a 1 TB EeSATA Drive. I will be replacing the 500 Gig Internal Drive with a 2 TB WD20EADS Drive before Activating it. I will be telling Directv where it will be located and that they have the wrong Room assigned to the HR21-700 which should be FBEDROOM instead of DENHR21 so they can change it in their records.


One time disclaimer: Altering a leased receiver is a violation of the equipment lease agreement, which would include replacing the internal harddrive.

As for updating the locations, it is just as easy, if not easier, to do it on-line in My Account.

- Merg


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

^^^

LOL. That's a triple whammy. Removing, Replacing and Tampering.


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## chevyguy559 (Sep 19, 2008)

The Merg said:


> One time disclaimer: Altering a leased receiver is a violation of the equipment lease agreement, which would include replacing the internal harddrive.
> 
> As for updating the locations, it is just as easy, if not easier, to do it on-line in My Account.
> 
> - Merg


I'm pretty sure he bought an owned HR24 in the classifieds section on here....


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Even if it is owned, you still void the warranty when you open it.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Even if it is owned, you still void the warranty when you open it.


While it makes sense to me that should be true, I can't find anything that says so.

This is all I can find in the Customer Agreement



> (k) Transfer of Receiving Equipment. We consider you to be responsible for, and the recipient of our programming on, any Receiving Equipment you own. You are liable for charges incurred in the use of your Receiving Equipment by others until you notify us of a transfer. Leased Receiving Equipment may not be transferred.


The Lease Agreement doesn't discuss owned equipment.

Unless I'm missing something if it's owned it's mine to do with what I want. I can't even find what the warranty is on an owned receiver (other then the HR21Pro).

Mike


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I can't even find what the warranty is on an owned receiver (other then the HR21Pro).
> 
> Mike


90 days.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

mdavej said:


> ^^^
> 
> LOL. That's a triple whammy. Removing, Replacing and Tampering.


They ought to just throw me in the Directv Jail for a year so I will quit violating Company Policy written by some expensive Law Firm!!! :lol:

I OWN the HR24-500 and I will do with it as I Please!!! If it Craps out I will replace the drive with the original and keep on trucking.

If it is something else I will take out my 2 TB WD20EADS Drive and install the Original Drive and then send it back for a Replacement DVR.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

richierich said:


> ... I will do with it as I Please!!! If it Craps out I will replace the drive with the original and keep on trucking.


reach:

The 90 day warranty is a joke, as was my comment about voiding it


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## AmyBluesoul (Mar 26, 2010)

Why is it that people seem to think that companies should pay for whatever happens to their equipment? It was working, you moved it. That makes you liable. Most people just want to blame someone else. Most other companies make you pay regardless. It's a warranty program, not insurance. 

I also read someone said, DirecTV just wants to send out truck rolls for everything. What most people don't realize is how much DirecTV pays those technician for the work they do. It's over $100. Even without a Protection Plan on the account, DirecTV only makes the customer pay half of it, $49.95. With the PP, it's only costing $72/year or $5.99/mo.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

AmyBluesoul said:


> Why is it that people seem to think that companies should pay for whatever happens to their equipment? It was working, you moved it. That makes you liable. Most people just want to blame someone else. Most other companies make you pay regardless. It's a warranty program, not insurance.
> 
> I also read someone said, DirecTV just wants to send out truck rolls for everything. What most people don't realize is how much DirecTV pays those technician for the work they do. It's over $100. Even without a Protection Plan on the account, DirecTV only makes the customer pay half of it, $49.95. With the PP, it's only costing $72/year or $5.99/mo.


First paragraph right on. 

Second, not so much.

$100 to the tech for a service call. Not in this universe. By the time everyone takes their cut, move the decimal point on place to the left and multiply by 1.5 to 3 depending on how many layers there are.


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## AmyBluesoul (Mar 26, 2010)

RobertE said:


> First paragraph right on.
> 
> Second, not so much.
> 
> $100 to the tech for a service call. Not in this universe. By the time everyone takes their cut, move the decimal point on place to the left and multiply by 1.5 to 3 depending on how many layers there are.


What I'm saying is that DirecTV pays the local office(ie. Mastec, DirecTECH, ect) that much. How much they pay their technicians and what not is true, techs only get $X amt for each work order they close. But DirecTV does pay $100+ for the techs to go out and only asks the customer to pay a smaller amount cause they don't see customers paying so much for the service calls. Actually DirecTV, over a year or so ago, did charge customers $80 for a service call without the Protection Plan.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

AmyBluesoul said:


> Why is it that people seem to think that companies should pay for whatever happens to their equipment?


Within reason, I expect it because I spend my hard earned money on it, and it broke because they did a crap job of making/"refurbishing" it. I expect some quality in a product.

Better not move your TV. Might break. Re-organized your kitchen and moved your microwave to a different outlet? There went the warranty. You actually took your car out of the garage? If the accelerator sticks, that's your fault because you moved it.

My cat craps out a better quality "product" than most companies make lately. It's just awful that we expect a product to work and handle every day wear and tear, isn't it?


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## AmyBluesoul (Mar 26, 2010)

matt1124 said:


> Within reason, I expect it because I spend my hard earned money on it, and it broke because they did a crap job of making/"refurbishing" it. I expect some quality in a product.
> 
> Better not move your TV. Might break. Re-organized your kitchen and moved your microwave to a different outlet? There went the warranty. You actually took your car out of the garage? If the accelerator sticks, that's your fault because you moved it.
> 
> My cat craps out a better quality "product" than most companies make lately. It's just awful that we expect a product to work and handle every day wear and tear, isn't it?


The question is, if you DO move your microwave and it breaks, are you going to whine to the company to replace it or just go get a new one? Also DirecTV is giving customers an infinite warranty. Not one that wears out after 90 days or 1 year like most standard products. When that microwave breaks after the 90 days and the warranty is out and Walmart won't even take it back, you buy a new one. At least DirecTV isn't making customers go out and buy a new one everytime.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

AmyBluesoul said:


> The question is, if you DO move your microwave and it breaks, are you going to whine to the company to replace it or just go get a new one? Also DirecTV is giving customers an infinite warranty. Not one that wears out after 90 days or 1 year like most standard products. When that microwave breaks after the 90 days and the warranty is out and Walmart won't even take it back, you buy a new one. At least DirecTV isn't making customers go out and buy a new one everytime.


If it has a warranty, yes, I do call and b**ch, and get a new one. That is what the warranty is for, and I expect it to be able to handle being moved, within reason. If I drop it and break the glass, then that is my fault and I take the loss.

D* isn't giving anyone an unlimited warranty, you pay for it, making it insurance. In fact, the terms even state it is insurance. Insurance covers you when it is your fault. So, if I move a box, drop it, break it, and I am paying for my insurance, I expect a new one, even though it is my fault.

If your house catches on fire, and it is your fault because you put a towel on the stove, do you think they shouldn't pay out? If your house floods because you used cheap hoses on the washing machine, should they not pay out because it was your fault? Driving a car and you wreck it because you were messing with the radio? Your fault, should they not pay?


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## AmyBluesoul (Mar 26, 2010)

matt1124 said:


> D* isn't giving anyone an unlimited warranty, you pay for it, making it insurance. In fact, the terms even state it is insurance. Insurance covers you when it is your fault. So, if I move a box, drop it, break it, and I am paying for my insurance, I expect a new one, even though it is my fault.


In the example of car insurance then if you break it, the insurance DOES cover it, but you have a deductable you need to meet and also your rates go up. So should the Protection Plan then make you pay a portion of the service call or replacement receiver and then have you pay more for your protection plan for the next few months until you're even again?


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

Amyblue the largest problem with this argument in the group is this...

by and large this population (the one on dbs talk) feels they are entitled to do whatever they want, because, by and large, they are capable of doing it right and getting away with it.

They can't seem to comprehend that the 'rules' are made for the other 99 percent of the population that has no business even thinking of trying to move a dish, run cables, and move IRD's properly. And when THAT population does it, and jacks up their entire system, it's completely their fault, and they should, and if the tech closes the call properly, they do get a bill for their stupidity. This population can't seem to gather the sheer frustration from a tech when they get backcharged big chunks of pay because of idiots out there that break their system because the 'thought a splitter would work'. All this population can seem to think of is how they are exempt from the rules because they think they know better and can do it right and find all the exceptions from the rules.

If you can do it, and do it right, and you don't get me backcharged because your a moron and you figured you could just plug the IRD into any old jack in your house, wonder why it doesn't work, and call D* and get me in trouble, and cost me money, then get it on. You are the exception, and perhaps, that part of the rules does not apply to you. But just because that particular part of the rule does not apply to you, the other 10,000,000 subscribers in the US really need to be told to leave the stuff alone and if you need it moved, have the pros do it.


Wanna know why the protection plan makes you answer all those silly questions and do all the troubleshooting? Here is your answer: The protection plan is run and administered by a 3rd party. They get paid by D* for each and every subscriber that has the protection plan. THEY, then have to pay D* for each and every truck roll. It is very much in their best interest to get your problem solved with troubleshooting and possibly an ERP. They also have a vested interest in seeing the techs close calls as 'customer caused' when the customer causes them to have to pay for a truck roll that they should not have if the customer had not jacked up their own system.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

AmyBluesoul said:


> In the example of car insurance then if you break it, the insurance DOES cover it, but you have a deductible you need to meet and also your rates go up. So should the Protection Plan then make you pay a portion of the service call or replacement receiver and then have you pay more for your protection plan for the next few months until you're even again?


Not with D*. They send out broken replacement receivers so much that you would never stop paying the higher rate.

If they could send out decent replacement equipment the first time, then maybe. If you kept having replacements then a possible deductible could come into play as well.


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## gibson.guitarman (Mar 19, 2007)

Another thing to consider is that when moving a box, update the D* website so that when they roll the truck, it is in the room that D* has it listed as, just to be safe.


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## nitty316 (Aug 27, 2008)

AmyBluesoul said:


> The question is, if you DO move your microwave and it breaks, are you going to whine to the company to replace it or just go get a new one? Also DirecTV is giving customers an infinite warranty. Not one that wears out after 90 days or 1 year like most standard products. When that microwave breaks after the 90 days and the warranty is out and Walmart won't even take it back, you buy a new one. At least DirecTV isn't making customers go out and buy a new one everytime.


Perfectly reasonable post. However I do notice you registered today. With regards to my box having an issue, I have moved boxes around many times and know that it has nothing to do with the box crashing. What frustrates me is people saying moving boxes is an issue. It's not. These boxes are built very well. If they have an issue it's because they have an issue. Not because of anything else.


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## AmyBluesoul (Mar 26, 2010)

Yes, I just registered today as one of my co-workers showed me this site but I have worked for the 3rd party in charge of the Protection Plan for 3 years. :lol:


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## chevyguy559 (Sep 19, 2008)

Sooooooo when a person moves, aren't they supposed to take the receivers with them to the new location for the technician to come out and install the new dish and install the receivers? Are they no longer covered since they were moved? :sure:

I wonder how much $$ a CSR earns off the $49 "Move Your Receiver To The Other Wall In Your Living Room Because Your Wife Wanted To Rearrange Furniture Even Though There Is An Active Jack" charge for a service call since we're not supposed to move them?? :lol:


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## tech24218 (Aug 13, 2009)

Garyunc said:


> So why even tell them you moved it? It is not working is all they need to know. You are paying them $72 extra a year so they take care of problems. It is not like you broke it on purpose and is doubtful that you caused the problem by moving it.


If you hired a contractor to install a bath tub and he promised that it wouldn't leak water or he would fix it you wouldn't expect him to pay a plumber to come fix after you moved the tub into the kitchen because you were pretty sure you knew 90% of the things that went into moving it would you?

Did you inspect the cable to see how many olms it was passing?
Did you inspect the outlet to make sure it was wired right?
Is it RG-6 or 59 behind your wall?
What is the freq. the barrel connector on your wall passes?
Is there a splitter behind the wall? 
Is there any moisture in the connectors?
Do the connectors fit evenly?
Is the Ird even connected to the ODU?

There are several things that could be wring with the line from the IRD to the ODU. If a tech wires the IRD and one of these things is a problem then it's on that tech and Directv to fix the problem and provide you the proper service you're paying for.

The pp dep't doesn't know what you've done in the process of moving this box. 
I have had customers lie to me directly to my face about what is causing the problem on a service call. I couldn't imagine what they tell a CSR over the phone.

You took the protection plan agreeing to the terms of use. Then you violated it. And there is your answer.


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## tech24218 (Aug 13, 2009)

chevyguy559 said:


> Sooooooo when a person moves, aren't they supposed to take the receivers with them to the new location for the technician to come out and install the new dish and install the receivers? Are they no longer covered since they were moved? :sure:
> 
> I wonder how much $$ a CSR earns off the $49 "Move Your Receiver To The Other Wall In Your Living Room Because Your Wife Wanted To Rearrange Furniture Even Though There Is An Active Jack" charge for a service call since we're not supposed to move them?? :lol:


I know how much D* had to pay the tech to come out and fix it. I know how much time he has wasted out of his day to do an upgrade when he could have been earning D* a lot more money doing a new install.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

tech24218 said:


> If you hired a contractor to install a bath tub and he promised that it wouldn't leak water or he would fix it you wouldn't expect him to pay a plumber to come fix after you moved the tub into the kitchen because you were pretty sure you knew 90% of the things that went into moving it would you?


Moving a bathtub and hooking up a STB _are_ pretty similar when it comes to level of skill involved.



tech24218 said:


> Did you inspect the cable to see how many olms it was passing?
> Did you inspect the outlet to make sure it was wired right?
> Is it RG-6 or 59 behind your wall?
> What is the freq. the barrel connector on your wall passes?
> ...


Last time I moved a box:
Yes, I did.
Yes, I did.
RG-6, Gepco VSD2001 to be exact
3k, Gold plated Skywalker brand
No, but there is an SWS-8 tucked away in the mix
Nope
Yes, and they were tightened to the proper torque
Yes

Do I pass the PP claim test?


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

The problem is that D* with their legion of lawyers has written this customer contract in such a way that the customer ALWAYS seems liable for anything and everything....I think the legal system has a name for construction of such an UNREASONABLE contractural agreement especially since it is using wording and terms that will almost never been fully understood by the customer who is a layman.

In any case the ethical aspects as clearly troubling!


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## dubber deux (Mar 8, 2009)

chevyguy559 said:


> Sooooooo when a person moves, aren't they supposed to take the receivers with them to the new location for the technician to come out and install the new dish and install the receivers? Are they no longer covered since they were moved? :sure:
> 
> I wonder how much $$ a CSR earns off the $49 "Move Your Receiver To The Other Wall In Your Living Room Because Your Wife Wanted To Rearrange Furniture Even Though There Is An Active Jack" charge for a service call since we're not supposed to move them?? :lol:


Very good point.

Legally if the unit is designed to be moved by the customer during a move it is surely designed to be moved within the walls of that same dwelling....

The amusing thing is that so many folks here fall into the trap of actually arguing with the D* appologists. There is no reason to argue with them because in this case it is clearly reasonable to do what the OP did and not have any issue with the unit since he took "reasonable care" when moving the unit.

My guess is that like most Chinese electronics it is junk and was going to fail sooner or later...much sooner in most cases of course.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

dubber deux said:


> The amusing thing is that so many folks here fall into the trap of actually arguing with the D* appologists. There is no reason to argue with them because in this case it is clearly reasonable to do what the OP did and not have any issue with the unit since he took "reasonable care" when moving the unit.


 no need to start tossing insults out.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> no need to start tossing insults out.


You should write a letter to the owner of the internets about his lack of couth.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> You should write a letter to the owner of the internets about his lack of couth.


I would but if Gore did not reply I would be crushed.


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## slls (Jun 25, 2009)

This thread was an interesting read. I often wondered why my 2 receivers are named. They are both in my living room, at one time the names were both living room but spelled differently. 
I was talking to D* one time about my guide and mentioned they were both in the living room, she told me she will now rename them his and hers. On the web site they are now listed that way.
It's actually better that way for me, because I have to go online every so often to reset, mine is not plugged in most of the time.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Mine are named:

CBS
FOX
NBC
Misc
HR22
R22 &
HR10-250

No room/location references at all.


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## newsposter (Nov 13, 2003)

The Merg said:


> When looking under your account, select My Equipment. In the section for My Receivers, there should be a box to the right of each of your receivers that specifies where the receiver is located.
> 
> - Merg


how about Tivo 1 and HR20 

i couldnt remember which was which for remote scheduling so renamed them a while ago.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

THIS is why you need to call in a professional to move your box.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

No, this is why you shouldn't be CLUMSY and you should be MORE CAREFUL!!!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

mdavej said:


> THIS is why you need to call in a professional to move your box.


 Yeah, accidents happen but lets get real here. Are you really saying I need to call to roll a truck out to my house to swap two receivers around in my entertainment center? Seriously? 

Not to mention how many more techs need to be hired to move a receiver 3 feet while still being able to handle all the work the installers have now? That would wind up raising all our bills just to pay for it. I don't think so. :nono:

Mike


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Hey, I don't make the rules, D* does. And they say no relocating. Every time I dust under my box I call in a team of lawyers and highly trained technicians just to make sure I follow my agreement to the letter. In fact, to avoid any accidental nudge from pressing buttons on the front panel, I call in the pros to dim my blue ring whenever the power goes out. I'm doing exactly what D* wants, or rather insists, I do. I even wear rubber gloves when I use the remote.


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## chevyguy559 (Sep 19, 2008)

mdavej said:


> Hey, I don't make the rules, D* does. And they say no relocating. Every time I dust under my box I call in a team of lawyers and highly trained technicians just to make sure I follow my agreement to the letter. In fact, to avoid any accidental nudge from pressing buttons on the front panel, I call in the pros to dim my blue ring whenever the power goes out. I'm doing exactly what D* wants, or rather insists, I do. I even wear rubber gloves when I use the remote.


:lol::lol::lol:


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## ekgermann (Jan 21, 2008)

For the record, I called to have PP replace a dead receiver (i.e. no lights, no video).

He had me pick it up and carry it to another room and plug it in and see if the lights came on. Sort of ridiculous, but his ballgame, his rules.

So, CSR had me move it.

EKG


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ekgermann said:


> For the record, I called to have PP replace a dead receiver (i.e. no lights, no video).
> 
> He had me pick it up and carry it to another room and plug it in and see if the lights came on. Sort of ridiculous, but his ballgame, his rules.
> 
> ...


That's pretty common and in conflict with the strictest interpretation of the lease agreement...and, IMHO, perfectly within the realistic interpretation of the lease agreement. It's reasonable to expect that a subscriber will move it around their own house.

Now with that said, if you're moving it and break it, and tell the CSR how it got broke...then prepare to pay for a replacement. :grin:

Mike


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

As alluded to earlier, that statement about moving a box is meant for moving the box to another location away from the primary residence. No reason why you can't relocate a box within your own house. Just don't drop it.


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

jdspencer said:


> As alluded to earlier, that statement about moving a box is meant for moving the box to another location away from the primary residence. No reason why you can't relocate a box within your own house. Just don't drop it.


Or, moving a box to where there is no existing sat service and you are unable, or unwilling to put sat service where you moved it to.

the whole beef on this thread is don't use the protection plan to get a free drop run.


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## Luck255 (Mar 5, 2009)

chevyguy559 said:


> I wonder how much $$ a CSR earns off the $49 "Move Your Receiver To The Other Wall In Your Living Room Because Your Wife Wanted To Rearrange Furniture Even Though There Is An Active Jack" charge for a service call since we're not supposed to move them?? :lol:


$0


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

woj027 said:


> So, my HR20 died earlier this week, they are shipping a new (refurb) receiver to me (today I hope). Using the logic of moving it, I shouldn't be able to open the box and install it myself. I think the quote above with regards to "relocate" is a bit strong. People rearrange their living room, bedroom, and entertainment rooms all the time, is someone implying that I need to call DirecTV to move my receiver?


Exatly my thought. If you can install one they send you, then what is wrong with moving one in your own home. I've done it a couple times. I purchased a new Onkyo receiver a few years agon and didn't want my silver HR20 in the Meida room with it, so switched it with my black HR21, then just changed the friendly names on them.


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## chevyguy559 (Sep 19, 2008)

Luck255 said:


> $0


I believe you need to replace yours....


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