# Discussion: P287 Technical discussion and Bug Reports



## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

This thread is for P287 technical discussion only. Any off topic or bashing posts will be removed without notice.


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## Golfer (Mar 3, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> This thread is for P287 technical discussion only. Any off topic or bashing posts will be removed without notice.


Jason I got the 285 last night. I notice on ESPN-HD that they no longer have the grey sides; they are now black. Is that true will all 285 updates or did something go wrong with my 811? Not a big deal; just curious.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

Golfer said:


> Jason I got the 285 last night. I notice on ESPN-HD that they no longer have the grey sides; they are now black. Is that true will all 285 updates or did something go wrong with my 811? Not a big deal; just curious.


Golfer, I still have P284, and I just checked and ESPN-HD has black side bars here too. So must not be a P285 issue. _Certainly_ not a P287 issue.


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## Golfer (Mar 3, 2004)

Laverne said:


> Golfer, I still have P284, and I just checked and ESPN-HD has black side bars here too. So must not be a P285 issue. _Certainly_ not a P287 issue.


Sorry, I had a brain fa**. I DO have 287. sorry about that.... but still have black bars instead of grey.


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## jpetersohn (Apr 6, 2005)

tonyp56 said:


> Dish 811
> SW: P284LADD-N
> Boot Strap Version: 1013LADD


What is the difference (if any) between the LADD and LAND software? My 811
has LAND, most others on this board seem to have LADD.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

jpetersohn said:


> What is the difference (if any) between the LADD and LAND software? My 811
> has LAND, most others on this board seem to have LADD.


Don't know, but now with 287 it doesn't state anything except the software version number "287" and the bootstrap version "1014". So I guess we'll never know. That reminds me that I need to update my signature. Thanks


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

jpetersohn said:


> What is the difference (if any) between the LADD and LAND software? My 811
> has LAND, most others on this board seem to have LADD.


It is information about the hardware configuration. I'm LAFD-N


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## gdarwin (Jan 31, 2005)

Don't know if this is a bug with P287 - Was watching PBS-HD OTA, went to eat dinner, returned and there was no sound. Switched channel then back to PBS, sound was back.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

I too, went from P284 to P287 just by shutting down my 811 over the dinner hour. Menu changes look nice. If the EPG "NO INFO" issue is finally resolved I'll be happy. Only time will tell. I'm disappointed that the video jitter issue (frame dropping?) wasn't addressed. I guess that fix will give us something to look forward to. I notice it more and more reading news scrolls and during camera pans. My guess is it jumps about once every 30 seconds. I'm not type-A enough to grab a stopwatch watch.

It's also unfortunate that the EPG was not expanded to fill an entire 16X9 screen with another hour's worth of data. The Setup screens were enlarged...why address those first? This is valuable real estate just going to waste.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

My 811 also went from P284 to P287 on Thursday 4/7 afternoon. A couple of quick observations although some of these may have been part of P285 but I never received it and I don't recall reading anyone else comments on these. First, the channel changing appears to be slightly slower. It doesn't matter satellite channel to local channel or local to local or satellite to satellite. Not really annoying unless you're a real power surfer. I suspect this slight pause when changing channels is the method Dish used to eliminate one or more of the BSOD modes. 

The SD locals that were in my EPG in the 8000 channel range for P284 (but in red since I don't subscribe to them) are no longer there with P287. I still receive the HD local guide info. When watching a HD local channel and pressing the info button, I occasional get the local digital/no info screen although this appears to be slightly better than P284. If I do lose the HD local info, pressing the view TV button always seems to bring it back. I should note that I do have channel locks activated. I also had HD local info for the full 44 hours in the EPG. There appears to be a great deal more capability with saving channels in favorites. I created three lists and didn't hit a limit. I tried the search feature and it worked like my model 510 except there is no history capability which is not suprising since there really is no place to store it on the 811. The search feature did search the full 44 hours and found programs on both satellite and HD local channels. I did come across a slight bug though when I did a search on "MASH". I tried "MASH" because I knew it was on Hallmark and a HD local channel and the search found it in both places. The bug was that one of the Hallmark "finds" in the list was red and if I selected it, I received the standard not subscribed message. Of course right above it was another Hallmark "find" that was not in red and selecting it took you to the timers menu. I have not had any BSODs or lockups that I occasional had with P284 but I haven't had P287 long enough to state that those problems are gone. I do like the new look of the menus and also the "system info" stuff is significantly better in providing more information on fewer menu screens. I will keep on testing features as I watch more and report anything else I find but overall P287 appears to be an improvement over P284. Hopefully all the 811 owners out there will find that P287 solves most of their problems.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I did get 287. With 285 users the update was rather quick. I got it tonight when I turned off the set. The reason that people with 284 was reporting getting it first could just be because not a lot of people got 285 and 287 is definitely a quicker rollout so most likely it went quickly to the 285 people then to the 284. Since a lot of us were at work when it start spolling it could easily given the impression 284 people were getting it first.

I did get my first lock up, but have not been able to reproduce. What I have found in the past is that usually after a upgrade a run into a lock up and then after a softboot I dont get any more. Might be a good idea to do a soft boot and hard reboot just for good measure. Clean out that memory floating around.  No this is not a recommendation I have been told of. Just what I have experienced. 

My suggestion is don't post any lock ups or reboots unless you see them a few times. That is usually what I do.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I tried your MASH example last night rocatman and I did not get duplicate entries and they both showed as red. Is your hallmark channel locked and hidden or not?


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> I tried your MASH example last night rocatman and I did not get duplicate entries and they both showed as red. Is your hallmark channel locked and hidden or not?


My Hallmark channel is not locked or hidden. As I stated in my previous post, one search find of MASH on Hallmark was red, another on Hallmark was not.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Ok, the favorite lists don't seem to work. I've done a soft reboot and i didn't have any channels in any of the four list before I got updated to 287. It isn't an issue with not storing channels, it does seem to have unlimited capacity, however, after creating two lists, one of them music channels only and the other consiting of main channels it does not work. What I mean is if I select my music list (has only music channels in it) it will show ALL of the channels in the EPG, if I go to a music channel then open up the EPG it will show only music channels, but when I scroll through them one time it loses some, then it starts showing all channels again. I've tried this several times without any luck. I've also cleared the lists and started over from scratch with no luck. Any ideas.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Try a reset to defaults, hardboot, and try again.

Otherwise I have already emailed your Bug report to the team.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Not sure this is worth reporting, but here goes: I went into SETUP and changed the audio setting from "Dolby Digital and "PCM" to just "DD". I never experienced any DD decoding issues in the past and wanted to try this setting just for the heck of it. I think this is the correct setting anyway and expected no change. As soon as I made the change, the 811 locked up solid and went dark. It would not respond to front panel contols or the remote. I had to unplug it to bring it back. This is P287


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## brycekholt (Mar 21, 2005)

Sorry for the Newbie Questions but what exactly is QAM? And When does anyone think we will be all on the same version of software? I remember when I started last Sept I was P281 and I went to Dish's Site and they had like 3 software versions for the 811. And then back in January we were all back to one single version. Now were up to three again. The last thing I want to do is complain (and trust me I'm not) But I turn off my 811 every night and when I'm at work and I am still at 284. I will continue to have patience and hopefully I will be back up to the latest.

Thanks, 

Bryce


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

brycekholt said:


> Sorry for the Newbie Questions but what exactly is QAM? And When does anyone think we will be all on the same version of software? I remember when I started last Sept I was P281 and I went to Dish's Site and they had like 3 software versions for the 811. And then back in January we were all back to one single version. Now were up to three again. The last thing I want to do is complain (and trust me I'm not) But I turn off my 811 every night and when I'm at work and I am still at 284. I will continue to have patience and hopefully I will be back up to the latest.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bryce


No big deal, don't worry you will get the software update, it is just the question of when. (No one really knows that answer) Give it a few days (perhaps two or three weeks) and it should get to you. Just make sure you have "Without My Permission" checked in the 811's setup menu, and that you are just turning your 811 off by the front panel power button or the power button on your remote and not pulling the plug. Beyond that you'll get it when your receivers numbers are in the data stream.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Thanks Jason, I did what you told me to (restored defualts via setup menu, turned 811 off, pulled the power cord, waited 30 seconds and plugged back in and set up favorite list again) so far ok, though I had to do the above twice. Don't know why but it didn't work the first time, but it did the second time around.

Thanks again,

Tony



Jason Nipp said:


> Try a reset to defaults, hardboot, and try again.
> 
> Otherwise I have already emailed your Bug report to the team.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Moman.. 

I tried the DD switch setting about a dozen times and did not get a lock up. Did you do a soft reboot or hard reboot after the update. If not, do a soft reboot and see if it happens again. My personal experience has been with the updates I have gotten I always seem to get a lock up right after a software update. I do a soft or hard reboot and I dont see one for a long time. This happen with both 285 and 287. Would be interested if it happens again. If you can try flipping it a few times over the next couple of days if you can.

Tony:

I went into favorites and create a list of Sirus music. I then went into the EPG and moved around. I then added some more channels. I can't reproduce what you are seeing. Hopefully the factor reset hard reset fixed the ghost in the machine.


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## Laverne (Feb 17, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> Did you do a soft reboot or hard reboot after the update.


Thought this was worth emphasis...

What do you do after you get any kind of update on your computer? Either restart, or (my preference) shut it down completely and turn it back on again.

Think of the 811 just like your computer. Everyone should reboot after an update. Just good practice to be in.

My $.02. :grin:


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## parlyle (Dec 19, 2003)

Jason Nipp said:


> It is information about the hardware configuration. I'm LAFD-N


My configuration is: P284LAMD-N
I'm still waiting for 287. I usually get the new upgrades at the very end of the scheduled run.
I haven't seen anybody with this hardware yet. I am very happy with this version as I haven't had any of the bad experiences as others have had. Can you explain why they have so many different versions? 
Thanks: Lyle :sure:


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Tony:
> 
> I went into favorites and create a list of Sirus music. I then went into the EPG and moved around. I then added some more channels. I can't reproduce what you are seeing. Hopefully the factor reset hard reset fixed the ghost in the machine.


I always said that you had special 811. :lol:

Yeah, I don't really understand it either, cause I did a soft reboot and it still did it, heck even after I did what Jason said it didn't work, I had to do that twice. It just decided to do one of those weird things again to keep me on my toes.

Everything is great now, haven't had any other issues, and locks are going OK this time. (locked them the day before yesterday) Guide seeems to be working OK. The only other thing I ran into was a slight hic-up, I was scanning for DTV stations and when it found the first DTV station it stopped, hit cancel, then started the scan again and everything went OK. But no lock-ups or anything, it just stopped after it found the first DTV station. (this was after doing what Jason said, after two hard reboots and a soft reboot)

I did notice on the positive side, one of my local stations is now mapping to the correct channel number. Before 287 my local WB station was mapped to 33-1 when it was supposed to be 34-1, now it is mapped to 34-1 like it is supposed to be.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

moman19 said:


> Not sure this is worth reporting, but here goes: I went into SETUP and changed the audio setting from "Dolby Digital and "PCM" to just "DD". I never experienced any DD decoding issues in the past and wanted to try this setting just for the heck of it. I think this is the correct setting anyway and expected no change. As soon as I made the change, the 811 locked up solid and went dark. It would not respond to front panel contols or the remote. I had to unplug it to bring it back. This is P287


Moman I have been asked to get more info about your issue. Please PM me as much detail surrounding this occurrence as possible. For example has it happened again, What were the states in which this occurred (were you tuned to OTA or SAT when you went into the menu to toggle DD?), did you try to toggle during an event that was not broadcasting DD?, is there a particular sequence of events leading up to this fault?, etc, etc.

Thanks,


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

tonyp56 said:


> Thanks Jason, I did what you told me to (restored defualts via setup menu, turned 811 off, pulled the power cord, waited 30 seconds and plugged back in and set up favorite list again) so far ok, though I had to do the above twice. Don't know why but it didn't work the first time, but it did the second time around.


There was actually a rumor circulating that after P285 you may have to reboot twice for all the drivers to load in some hardware configs. But that is total heresay and an unconfirmed rumor. Keep in mind P287 is an improved version of P285. But again this is my personal banter.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

brycekholt said:


> Sorry for the Newbie Questions but what exactly is QAM? And When does anyone think we will be all on the same version of software? I remember when I started last Sept I was P281 and I went to Dish's Site and they had like 3 software versions for the 811. And then back in January we were all back to one single version. Now were up to three again. The last thing I want to do is complain (and trust me I'm not) But I turn off my 811 every night and when I'm at work and I am still at 284. I will continue to have patience and hopefully I will be back up to the latest.


Bryce, you can find the answer to your QAM question in several previous threads. Just use the search button. But to give you a starting point here is a good tread.

Your second question, everyone will get it within 2 or 3 weeks. (Personal projection)


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## brycekholt (Mar 21, 2005)

Thanks Jason! I'll look at it shortly. Looking forward to the software update. Have a good day! Thanks.


Bryce


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> Moman I have been asked to get more info about your issue. Please PM me as much detail surrounding this occurrence as possible. For example has it happened again, What were the states in which this occurred (were you tuned to OTA or SAT when you went into the menu to toggle DD?), did you try to toggle during an event that was not broadcasting DD?, is there a particular sequence of events leading up to this fault?, etc, etc.
> 
> Thanks,


Jason,

I won't be able to get around to this until late tonight. When I do, I will PM you with the particulars of the first crash after I try to reproduce the event.

MoMan


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I had heard the rumor about rebooting also. I have always felt that after an update rebooting the box is always a good idea. I would even go as far as a hard reboot. I know that one should not do this, but I have found that if I don't I seem to get a lock up or two and then I don't see them for a long time. 

No evidence to this. Just personal experience. THat is why I always discount lockups immediately after a updgrade if I have not had a reboot or two. 

Tony.. hopefully things will stabilize. Let us know if they dont. And my 811 is not magicial. I can assure you I have had my share of hickups.


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## gdarwin (Jan 31, 2005)

I had to reboot to get the guide to load and get search working...

G.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I have been playing around a lot with the locks and favorites and had another incident of what looks like the old BSOD(Attached are some pictures). Not sure what triggers it but this is my second incident. I am doing a lot of favorite editing and lock editing. When this occurred, the end result was that I lost my lock password. It did also result in no sound and no video. 

I tried Dish home and only got partial screen to come up on that also. When in this condition, I tried changing channels to a OTA and regular channel. I checked my SD output and that was also hosed.

Soft Reboot corrected the problem.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> And my 811 is not magicial. I can assure you I have had my share of hickups.


I know, I was just teasing you.

Yeah everything is going ok, now I've got to be honest besides locking some channels and such I haven't really been trying to cause any of the old bugs. But everything is ok, heck even great, about 14 months after I bought my 811 it is doing what I need it to do and I am happy now.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

tonyp56 said:


> I will try and see if the above still causes my 811 to do this tonight. I'll let you know.
> 
> 
> > Ron,
> ...


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

tonyp56 said:


> How are you doing screen shots, taking a picture with a digital camera? Just want to know so I could do this when I see something strange in the future and post it here for everyone to see.


I use both methods. Depended on the circumstance, i.e. whether it only happens on HD or SD? SD I try to use screen captures with my HTPC. But if the issue is only occuring in the HD output I grab a camera.


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## gdarwin (Jan 31, 2005)

OTA issue. Scanned all channels found and loaded into the guide. One channel (32.1) keeps disappearing from the guide. Went back in and added the channel maunally. Had a signal strength around 90.

Went back to select 32.1 - initial signal strength was about 45 then jumped to 89 then the screen went blank and the 811 picked the next lower channel. Check guide - 32.1 is gone again.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

I get the same problem with Harrisburg's PBS, WITF 33-2.
The annoying part about it, is that the guide info shows on 33-2 which dissapears after tuning into any of WITF's channels.
33-1 & 33-3 only show "Digital Local"


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

I have noticed something a little strange, I have two favorite lists, one for music only and the other is basicly all channels except music channels, sports, PI, etc... Anyways I also have nine OTA local stations plus around 10 sub channels for those local stations. When I am in the EPG and I am scrolling through the channels (the favorite list that has most channels) after 9460 (ShowtimeHD) everything gets messed up, first of all I will have a channel in the 4000 range (don't know what they are or why I get them but they are in red in EPG) or I'll get channel 500 or something between 9460 and my first local station (004-00) then my local stations (both Dish Network locals and my OTA locals) will be garbled, channel 25 might be before 9, or some of my locals will be missing. I've deleted all of my OTA local channels, hard-rebooted, deleted my favorite lists, rescanned my locals and then added my locals and other channels back into my favorite lists. However, my 811 continues to do this when I am in the favorite list. (the one that holds most of the channels) However, if I am in all sub or all channels it doesn't do this. 

Has anyone else noticed this, or perhaps Jason or Ron would have some ideas of what I could do. Like i've said I've done a hard-reboot, (plus the other too that I did a few days ago along with restoring to defaults) deleted and created favorite list again and I've rescanned my OTA channels with no luck. Everything works fine when I'm in ALL SUB or ALL CHANNEL but as soon as I switch to my favorite list that holds most of the channels it does this. I don't know if my other favorite list does this or not because I seldom use it.


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## HTguy (May 7, 2002)

I got P285 early on and only recently noticed that 287 had come in. (Not sure when it came down.)

No problems so far.

In addition to the 3-page System Info I noticed 2 new features today:

-You can now edit timers like the 5xx from the EPG. Select the event with the clock logo and you go right to the edit function.

-You can bring up the SEARCH function with the # key like the 5xx, too. (Had to go through the MENU when 285 came in.)

If these were actually part of P285 they didn't work when I tried them a couple of weeks ago.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Well in finally got 287 today. So far I have really not seen a major difference. Obviously the interface is more "modern". OTA is about the same, DD seems to lock in a tad bit faster. Picture QA no difference. Guess 284 was great for me. So far so good! I will give it a good work out Saturday afternoon. - Art


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

The 2 major changes I see is that as I change channels between OTA stations the DD always locks in unlike in 285 where once out of every 3 times the DD would not lock in and I had to change channel then go back to get it to lock. The other change (other than the new menu look) is that it takes much longer to scan for digital signals. Doesn't really bother me at all just an observation. Jason, give the "boys" a pat on the back for 287! - Art :goodjob:


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

tonyp56 said:


> I have noticed something a little strange, I have two favorite lists, one for music only and the other is basicly all channels except music channels, sports, PI, etc... Anyways I also have nine OTA local stations plus around 10 sub channels for those local stations. When I am in the EPG and I am scrolling through the channels (the favorite list that has most channels) after 9460 (ShowtimeHD) everything gets messed up, first of all I will have a channel in the 4000 range (don't know what they are or why I get them but they are in red in EPG) or I'll get channel 500 or something between 9460 and my first local station (004-00) then my local stations (both Dish Network locals and my OTA locals) will be garbled, channel 25 might be before 9, or some of my locals will be missing. I've deleted all of my OTA local channels, hard-rebooted, deleted my favorite lists, rescanned my locals and then added my locals and other channels back into my favorite lists. However, my 811 continues to do this when I am in the favorite list. (the one that holds most of the channels) However, if I am in all sub or all channels it doesn't do this.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this, or perhaps Jason or Ron would have some ideas of what I could do. Like i've said I've done a hard-reboot, (plus the other too that I did a few days ago along with restoring to defaults) deleted and created favorite list again and I've rescanned my OTA channels with no luck. Everything works fine when I'm in ALL SUB or ALL CHANNEL but as soon as I switch to my favorite list that holds most of the channels it does this. I don't know if my other favorite list does this or not because I seldom use it.


Tony,

I have created a music list just so I could test this out and so far I cannot reproduce what you are seeing. How many channels do you have in the favorite list that has the most channels. I don't have showtime, but I do have HBO HD.

Since you cleared things to factory defaults and re-added the channels I would suspect a bug there. Seems reproducable for sure. Did you do a hard reboot after you set your box to Factory defaults? That would assure a clean swip of memory.

So far you are the only one that has reported something like this. I know you have had this with other version too. I am starting to think you might have a marginal component in there that is causing this. Have you ever tried to get the box swaped and if so did you see similar symptoms. Reason I am asking this is to try and narrow it down to software or hardware.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Tony,
> 
> I have created a music list just so I could test this out and so far I cannot reproduce what you are seeing. How many channels do you have in the favorite list that has the most channels. I don't have showtime, but I do have HBO HD.
> 
> ...


OK, my music list has the Sirius and other audio only music channels plus MTV, MTV2, GAC, CMT, etc... My main list has every channel except public interest (9400-9415), shopping channels, religious channels, international channels (including CSTV, I think thats the name of it its like 265 or something like that) both Dish Sports Stops, channels 101, 102, 103, and I am sure a few others. Anyways I subscribe to AT180 with Locals + Distant Superstations and Starz and Showtime. I do not subscribe to any other packages.

Yes, I did a hard-reboot after restoring to defaults. And I also erased my favorite lists before doing any of the above, along with deleting all OTA locals. And after the hard-reboot and rebuilding my favorite lists and rescanning for OTA channels it still did this. When I first got 287 and after I did what Jason told me to do so that the favorites would work (look at post #14 and #15 in this thread) it didn't do this, but a couple of days later it started doing this and it won't go away no matter what I do.

No, I haven't tried to get my 811 swapped, though this problem is a slight headache I don't feel it would be worth the trouble to call Dish and argue with them to get them to swap me. Like I've already said I am finally happy with my 811, it is just this bug that I thought was a little strange and worth mentioning in the hopes someone would know about it and perhaps know a way to fix it.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Just wanted to chime in on my several woes of BSOD with P287 as well 

Not sure what else I can add to the discussion.
I did a factory defaults, but then re-created my HD favorites list.
I've done both soft reboots, as well as pulling the plug.
I always turn off my 811 after use.
When I turn my 811 on the next day the box works, but every channel I tune to is black. It doesn't matter if my 811 is set to an OTA channel or SAT channel when I turn my 811 off the previous night.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I've also noticed how 2 bugs that exisited prior to 287 have changed the way they mess up.

1 is on TNT, prior to P287, quite often TNT would pause and come back stuttering. Now in P287 the channel freezes but for much longer and then resumes. Also the picture will jump every now and then.

Another bug is sometime a local digital channel would skip and then the audio would come back skipping. Now the channel skips, but the audio comes back buzzing.

I knew I should've disabled this update but got coned into accpeting it 

Maybe I should finally replace my box. I guess I'll call dish and see if I'm worthy of getting my box replaced.


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

Gotta tell you BFG that just absolutely sucks! My 811 has only gotten better after each release (I never took 284 though!). With 287 the thing is rock solid, no BSOD, no lock ups, stable as all get out - so far!. Hell, it has become so easy and fast that even my kids have used it a couple of times voluntarily (they are still addicted to time shift though). Don't feel as if you were conned. 287 has fixed many, many peoples boxes. It has got to be the box itself. Call them up and get them to replace it.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

How many times have you had the BSOD Bryan since you got 287? I heard that Dish is aware of the BSOD that we are seeing.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Hmm, maybe 4 or 5 times.

I finally got that stuttering on TNT to stop for a while.
I did a soft reboot when things were working versus waiting to reboot after the problem was occuring


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## Foxbat (Aug 1, 2003)

My wife noticed that our 811 rebooted the other night after watching SNL (I crashed sometime after Weekend Update, so I didn't see what happened.) She said that the timer reminder came on screen about 11:55 EST/CDT and at midnight, the screen went black when the timer fired. She thought I had found a way to turn off the 811, but after a few minutes, the 811 rebooted (our HDTV has relays, so you hear a lot of clicking as the set tries different synch rates) and the timer program came up.

So far, this is the second time our 811 has BSoD'd when a timer fired after watching Digital OTA for over an hour.


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## Tonik (Apr 20, 2005)

My OTA's are completely hosed. It started with favorites list problems. So I did a restore factory defaults, deleted all my OTA's and rebooted. Cleveland, OH area. Fox, 8-01 will not keep a lock. Tune to it and it gives the lost signal error. Wait 60 to 120 seconds and it locks with a signal strength of 90. As you watch it the channel errors in and out. It was rock solid for months and months prior to this update.

5-01 shows up mapped to 15-01 now, instead of where it was at 5-01 for months and months.

So with those two errors, I reset to defaults, deleted all the OTA's and booted again. Well, to be accurate I have now done this half a dozen times.

Total nightmare now. Fox 8-01 can not be found, 3-01 is on 10-01, 5-01 is on 15-01. 19-01 comes and goes. As I go 'up' in channel numbers one set of channels is available. As I surf 'down' in channel numbers others are available.

Total nightmare. FWIW I can actually see the Antenna's for the OTA's I am trying to lock from my roof. 3-5 miles tops.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Tonik said:


> My OTA's are completely hosed. It started with favorites list problems. So I did a restore factory defaults, deleted all my OTA's and rebooted. Cleveland, OH area. Fox, 8-01 will not keep a lock. Tune to it and it gives the lost signal error. Wait 60 to 120 seconds and it locks with a signal strength of 90. As you watch it the channel errors in and out. It was rock solid for months and months prior to this update.
> 
> 5-01 shows up mapped to 15-01 now, instead of where it was at 5-01 for months and months.
> 
> ...


Welcome Tonik.

What software rev are you running?
What bootstrap version?
When did you first see an issue?
What was the sequence of events leading to the failure modes?
Was the reboot you performed a soft reset or a hard reset?
Have you had issues before with these channels?
What was the atmospheric conditions like the day you started having issues?
Are you using a preamp? Distribution amp, signal amp, or attenuators?
Are you using a 75 ohm matched antenna?
What Type of antenna?


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Tonik said:


> My OTA's are completely hosed. It started with favorites list problems. So I did a restore factory defaults, deleted all my OTA's and rebooted. Cleveland, OH area. Fox, 8-01 will not keep a lock. Tune to it and it gives the lost signal error. Wait 60 to 120 seconds and it locks with a signal strength of 90. As you watch it the channel errors in and out. It was rock solid for months and months prior to this update.
> 
> 5-01 shows up mapped to 15-01 now, instead of where it was at 5-01 for months and months.
> 
> ...


I have a model 811 with P287 in the Cleveland area. Did not have any problems until this past Sunday when I went to watch the basketball game on channel 5 ABC. I was getting good signal, over 85 but no picture or sound. Last night it was unmapped to 15-01 but received a good picture and sound. I might be a problem with the local channel and its PSIP info but I did go into the locals menu and used the add DTV selection for each of my digital local channels. Channel 19-01 CBS indicated a map to 10-01 so I cancelled out of it and it stayed at 19-01 in the channel listing and it stays at 19-01 when I got out of the menu system. Channel 8-01 comes in okay but the signal strength does seem to bounce around quite a bit. I am about 20 miles from the towers and use an amplified indoor antenna in my garage attic. Nothing else has really changed in my system. It is curious how some things seem to change with the 811 even when the software has not been updated unless Dish is making small tweaks to it without a version change.


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## Tonik (Apr 20, 2005)

Thanks for the questions and the response. My apologies for not including more info, I know better.  Answers inline with your questions.

_"What software rev are you running?"_

P287

_"What bootstrap version?"_

1014

_"When did you first see an issue?"_

As soon as it upgraded my favorites list became corrupt. I could not add or remove anything. So after reading here I reset to factory defaults and pulled the plug. Upon restart the favorites issue cleared and all the OTA problems started.

_"What was the sequence of events leading to the failure modes?"_

Upgrade to 287 came down. Favorties messed up, reset factory defaults then hard reboot. First time I readded the OTA's only one was a problem, 8-01 Fox Cleveland. Second time I redid the above process was when the OTA's got really bad.

_"Was the reboot you performed a soft reset or a hard reset?"_

I went straight to a hard.

_"Have you had issues before with these channels?"_

I never had any OTA problems except the rare lock up when going OTA to Sat while surfing. 90ish on all the signals, no skipping or anything. Rock solid and correctly mapped to their analog number.

_What was the atmospheric conditions like the day you started having issues?_

Two nights of attempts, both days crystal clear and sunny and in the 70's, light spring breeze out of the south west 

_Are you using a preamp? Distribution amp, signal amp, or attenuators?_

No, none of the above. The broadcast antenna's are just up the street, I can see two of them from the roof.

_Are you using a 75 ohm matched antenna?_

Yes.

_What Type of antenna?_

No idea, I threw the box away a year ago when I got the Sat  I did research it at the antenna website that helps you pick out what type to get.

I should add, I am unsure when I got the update. I did not notice anything until I went to the menu's to remove some favorites.


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## Tonik (Apr 20, 2005)

To add more detail, tonight I was able to figure out what is what and where. Everything listed below was working fine prior to this. Current state of each at the end of the line.

3.1 WKYC - NBC (OK)
3.2 SD feed of 3.1 (Gone, replaced by 3.3)
3.3 WKYC Weather Map (moved to 3.2)
5.1 WEWS - ABC (moved to 15.1)
8.1 WJW - Fox (tough to lock and hold now)
19.1 WOIO - CBS (OK)
25.1 WVIZ - PBS (Gone)
43.1 WUAB - UPN (OK)
55.1 WBNX - WB (Gone)
61.1 WQHS - UNI (OK)

Going to call Dish next I think. After a few drinks maybe.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

rocatman said:


> I have a model 811 with P287 in the Cleveland area. Did not have any problems until this past Sunday when I went to watch the basketball game on channel 5 ABC. I was getting good signal, over 85 but no picture or sound. Last night it was unmapped to 15-01 but received a good picture and sound. I might be a problem with the local channel and its PSIP info but I did go into the locals menu and used the add DTV selection for each of my digital local channels. Channel 19-01 CBS indicated a map to 10-01 so I cancelled out of it and it stayed at 19-01 in the channel listing and it stays at 19-01 when I got out of the menu system. Channel 8-01 comes in okay but the signal strength does seem to bounce around quite a bit. I am about 20 miles from the towers and use an amplified indoor antenna in my garage attic. Nothing else has really changed in my system. It is curious how some things seem to change with the 811 even when the software has not been updated unless Dish is making small tweaks to it without a version change.


I assure you they are not tweaking without changing version labels. In fact seeing how many revs are considered current right now, I would have to say they are not afraid to switch revisions before they are completely spooled to everyone.  Now looking at what the two of you have posted, and after hearing a couple other complaints from the Cleveland DMA, I would venture a guess your broadcasters are having some PSIP and TVCT issues. Perhaps something has started interfering causing some multipath? It's no secret that the 811 is very sensitive to multipath. I have forwarded this thread to the team to see if they have any further comments.


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

Tonik said:


> To add more detail, tonight I was able to figure out what is what and where. Everything listed below was working fine prior to this. Current state of each at the end of the line.
> 
> 3.1 WKYC - NBC (OK)
> 3.2 SD feed of 3.1 (Gone, replaced by 3.3)
> ...


The changes to channel 3.1-3 were made a while ago by channel 3 and are not at all related to P287 or the 811. As noted, the channel 5.1 remap problem is very recent and I did not have problems with it when I initially received the P287 download. I should note that even with the remap problem, I do get good guide data. I do not currently have any problems with channel 8.1. It could be a multipath problem since you are so close to the towers. Channel 25.1 is broadcasting at a very low power not on a regular broadcast tower so if you were receiving it via OTA, you were fortunate. They are scheduled to have the power cranked up and on a regular broadcast tower in the next couple of months. Currently I can not receive it at all from 20 miles away. Channel 55.1 is not being broadcast at this time to my knowledge but may be in the next few months. Perhaps you meant channel 50.1 the Akron PBS station which I receive just fine. You may want to call channel 5 WEWS first regarding PSIP and TVCT issues. You also may try adjusting your antenna slightly to try to fix channel 8.1. Aiming it slightly away from the towers sometimes helps to eliminate multipath issues.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

2.87 problems for me:

1) Much more sensitive to OTA. I have had drops on OTA Fox, which routinely is received in the 90+% range. OTA CBS is in the 70% range, and if any bad weather drops it below 70% it becomes nearly unwatchable.

2) Intermittent sound drops on OTA, which is fixed by changing to a satellite based HD channel and then back.


Software Rev:
287

Bootstrap Version:
1014

Hardware
LADD-N

Regards,


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

"1) Much more sensitive to OTA. I have had drops on OTA Fox, which routinely is received in the 90+% range. OTA CBS is in the 70% range, and if any bad weather drops it below 70% it becomes nearly unwatchable."
This is unusual, as humidity acts as an antenna booster, and it seems that during incliment weather, the humidity would increase, and your signal would get stronger or remain the same on OTA..


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

olgeezer:

I agree, but I can only report what is happening with my receiver.

Best,


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

olgeezer said:


> This is unusual, as humidity acts as an antenna booster, and it seems that during incliment weather, the humidity would increase, and your signal would get stronger or remain the same on OTA..


Booster ? Water in the air will increase attenuation by reflection and absorbing radio waves, not bootsing ! Probably you mistakenly mixed up with mirror effect when you have a lake between your antenna and radio tower.


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## Tonik (Apr 20, 2005)

Jason Nipp said:


> I assure you they are not tweaking without changing version labels. In fact seeing how many revs are considered current right now, I would have to say they are not afraid to switch revisions before they are completely spooled to everyone.  Now looking at what the two of you have posted, and after hearing a couple other complaints from the Cleveland DMA, I would venture a guess your broadcasters are having some PSIP and TVCT issues. Perhaps something has started interfering causing some multipath? It's no secret that the 811 is very sensitive to multipath. I have forwarded this thread to the team to see if they have any further comments.


Sorry for not getting back, but the weather and work has kept me off the roof to mess with the antenna. I will buy the PSIP issue on 5-1, which is now on 15-01. Perhpas I had it locked on 5-1 from before, then through all of this I had to delete and rescan, so it picked up the new messed up PSIP. I will give them a call.

But as for the other channels, 287 is the issue, especially Fox. It made something worse, if you think it is multipathing, then it made multipathing issues worse.

After a bit of twisting the antenna I am able to lock Fox (8-1) at 90, and this is in a cloudy overcast day, see link below. But 3-1 is now in the low 70's, and I have no doubt that it is going to drop in and out, and all I have done is switch one channel problem for another.

Below is the shot from my roof, you can see four of them, the other three are just to the left of where the picture ends, they are actually closer. No big zoom or anything in that pic, they are actually that close to me.

I also got 25-1 to lock, and a new one I have never seen 25-2. Not sure what it is, it is PBS of some sort, it has a small map of ohio as the logo on the screen and calls itself the 'Ohio Channel' Seems to be a government run channel.

Pic from roof:
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=243422

I do appreciate all the help and suggestions, very cool.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John Kotches said:


> 2.87 problems for me:
> 
> 1) Much more sensitive to OTA. I have had drops on OTA Fox, which routinely is received in the 90+% range. OTA CBS is in the 70% range, and if any bad weather drops it below 70% it becomes nearly unwatchable.
> 
> ...


Ditto on the sound drops. This is new and only when I leave the 811 tuned to an OTA for a few hours. Switching to satellite and then back to OTA usually clears it up, but I've also locked up hard once or twice in the process.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Well last night to add insult to injury, I couldn't get a usable DD 5.1 signal out of the 811 on CBS or NBC over the air. I switched to SAT and back multiple times, and even power cycled which is about as drastic a measure as you can take. No center channel information at all. That's fine as long as you don't want to hear the dialog  The likelihood that both CBS and NBC were *both* having the same error (no CC broadcast) at the same time in the 5.1 broadcast is pretty slim. I won't say zero, but awfully close to it.

No joy. I had to go back to PCM output only, and use ProLogic IIx decoding instead. Now that I think about it, going back to PCM only shows that it is a problem with the 811s DD output.

Arrggh.

Very disappointing.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

tonyp56 said:


> I have noticed something a little strange, I have two favorite lists, one for music only and the other is basicly all channels except music channels, sports, PI, etc... Anyways I also have nine OTA local stations plus around 10 sub channels for those local stations. When I am in the EPG and I am scrolling through the channels (the favorite list that has most channels) after 9460 (ShowtimeHD) everything gets messed up, first of all I will have a channel in the 4000 range (don't know what they are or why I get them but they are in red in EPG) or I'll get channel 500 or something between 9460 and my first local station (004-00) then my local stations (both Dish Network locals and my OTA locals) will be garbled, channel 25 might be before 9, or some of my locals will be missing. I've deleted all of my OTA local channels, hard-rebooted, deleted my favorite lists, rescanned my locals and then added my locals and other channels back into my favorite lists. However, my 811 continues to do this when I am in the favorite list. (the one that holds most of the channels) However, if I am in all sub or all channels it doesn't do this.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this, or perhaps Jason or Ron would have some ideas of what I could do. Like i've said I've done a hard-reboot, (plus the other too that I did a few days ago along with restoring to defaults) deleted and created favorite list again and I've rescanned my OTA channels with no luck. Everything works fine when I'm in ALL SUB or ALL CHANNEL but as soon as I switch to my favorite list that holds most of the channels it does this. I don't know if my other favorite list does this or not because I seldom use it.


First of all, thanks Jason for the PMs and thank you Ron for your reply's!

Ok, I thought this problem was gone, (yes Jason it stopped for about a week) now its back. When I went to take a picture of this so that I could share it with everyone it suddenly didn't do it, and I though maybe it wouldn't do it again but it has. So I wanted to share two pictures with everyone so that others can see what it looks like. Yes, I know they are not good pictures but they let you know what is going on. In the first picture you will notice that after channel 9460 (Showtime HD) I have a channel in the 31*** range then 004-01 and 004-02, then the next photo you will see that the channel in the 31*** range repeats and then 004-01 and 004-02 repeat, what you don't see is after that last repeat everything goes back to normal it starts with the Dish Network LIL 004-00 and everything works good until you get back around to 9460. Now the channel that gets stuck in this position (always in the same place) changes. (could be some odd channel number might be another local channel) Sometimes my EPG will not put up all of my locals. (even though they are in my favorite list)

Now remember, I don't see this with any of the other list including ALL Channel, ALL Sub, Music, and now another favorite list. (that makes three seperate lists, now the list that this happens on is the only one that I have my OTA local channels on)

This is just for everyones information just in case anyone else sees this they can know they aren't the only one.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

John Kotches said:


> Well last night to add insult to injury, I couldn't get a usable DD 5.1 signal out of the 811 on CBS or NBC over the air. I switched to SAT and back multiple times, and even power cycled which is about as drastic a measure as you can take. No center channel information at all. That's fine as long as you don't want to hear the dialog  The likelihood that both CBS and NBC were *both* having the same error (no CC broadcast) at the same time in the 5.1 broadcast is pretty slim. I won't say zero, but awfully close to it.
> 
> No joy. I had to go back to PCM output only, and use ProLogic IIx decoding instead. Now that I think about it, going back to PCM only shows that it is a problem with the 811s DD output.
> 
> ...


BINGO! John, I have experienced this too. My Center Channel essentially disappeared with P287. Dead! I even rewired my system hoping to find a cure. The Center channel works fine in PCM-mode as well as DD and THX via my DVD player. But it's just gone whenever I receive a DD broadcast thru the 811. Simple as that.

I reported this on my local HDTV AVS Forum (hoping it was a local issue), but others seem to NOT have this issue. I believe I also reported it here to no avail. This could unfortunately be the E* killer for me because without achnowledgement, I see no fix on the horizon. I cannot watch a show like Leno, for example, because the all-important center channel is just GONE! All you hear is the audience and the music.

The strangest part of this is the fact that I don't believe the Center Channel is ALWAYS dead in a 811/DD program.....I have not kept a log. But when it is gone, it is VERY noticeable. It seems to ALWAYS be missing on the Leno show when I watch the OTA NBC-DT channel in my area.

Jason or whomever: Is there a way to get this escalated????????


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

moman19 said:


> Jason or whomever: Is there a way to get this escalated?


 Yes, I will call in about this Monday morning. I did report this last week but Team Summit kept everyone busy.


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## Jason Nipp (Jun 10, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> Yes, I will call in about this Monday morning. I did report this last week but Team Summit kept everyone busy.


Moman, John, and Tony, please PM me the phone number on your account. And if you have more than 1 811 let me know the 1st four digits of the RID number in question.


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## John Kotches (Mar 30, 2003)

Jason:

PM sent.


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## tonyp56 (Apr 26, 2004)

Jason,

Sent PM, thanks.


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Jason Nipp said:


> Moman, John, and Tony, please PM me the phone number on your account. And if you have more than 1 811 let me know the 1st four digits of the RID number in question.


Jason,

Thanks for bird dogging this. I just sent you my phone number and I look forward to getting some feedback.


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## Tonik (Apr 20, 2005)

Tonik said:


> I have no doubt that it is going to drop in and out, and all I have done is switch one channel problem for another.


I am happy to report that after a weekend of clouds and rain all my channels remained locked and all is well.


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