# Any recommendations for a cheap battery backup?



## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

I have two DVR's (HR20 and HR21) in my bedroom and a powered multiswitch. Any recommendations for a fairly cheap battery backup? Would this be decent? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/CyberPower+-+625VA+Battery+Back-Up+System/9926091.p?id=1218196445055&skuId=9926091&st=battery%20backup&cp=1&lp=3 Anything cheaper that would do the job?

Thanks!


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

That looks like it will do the job for two DVRs and the multiswitch. Just don't put a TV on the battery side.


----------



## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

K thanks for the info.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Thats about 350W. The DVRs use about 70 each I think. Not sure about the multiswitch, but at that price, I just ordered one for computer, which isnt close enough to my media closet to plug into the 1500VA UPS everything else is on. That is a great price.


----------



## tvl76 (Dec 7, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> Just don't put a TV on the battery side.


Why is that ?


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

tvl76 said:


> Why is that ?


TV's really aren't meant to be on the battery side of a UPS. They drain the battery much faster than anything else.

Putting a TV on the battery side can turn a UPS that will run for 30 minutes into a UPS that runs for 10.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

SParker said:


> I have two DVR's (HR20 and HR21) in my bedroom and a powered multiswitch. Any recommendations for a fairly cheap battery backup? Would this be decent? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/CyberPower+-+625VA+Battery+Back-Up+System/9926091.p?id=1218196445055&skuId=9926091&st=battery%20backup&cp=1&lp=3 Anything cheaper that would do the job?
> 
> Thanks!


The only thing that unit doesn't have, which I always prefer to have in my UPS, is AVR (Auto Voltage Regulation). I have the AVR version of this UPS and it works great.


----------



## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

tvl76 said:


> Why is that ?


TV's eat energy. A battery backup like that is a great solution if you lose power every so often, that doesn't last more then 20 minutes..... because your DVR is powered, and your power injector for the dish is powered, losing power for a short time, means no interruptions in recording your shows.

If you have an unstable grid, this is a great solution.

A TV however, would go through the energy provided by a battery in a few minutes. If you want to watch TV during an outage, I would get a generator.


----------



## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> TV's really aren't meant to be on the battery side of a UPS. They drain the battery much faster than anything else.
> 
> Putting a TV on the battery side can turn a UPS that will run for 30 minutes into a UPS that runs for 10.


Yes, the TV pulls lots of power, particulary big screens and Plasmas.
But I would rather protect my TV than the DVR.
DVR cost $19.95 to replace without the protection plan. Free with protection plan.
TV replacement cost alot more than that.
Often the power drops/goes up/goes down/goes up, thats the thing a UPS really protects

If you use the UPS to allow you time to gracefully shutdown the DVR's and TV so damage doesn't occur, 30 mins isn't really necessary. I'd be happy with 5 to 10mins to save everything for graceful shutdowns.


----------



## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I have a 1500 watt UPS on my 65" old fashioned rear projection TV. The UPS also powers my HR23 as well as my AVR. I get 18 minutes out of it.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Why do you need an entertainment center UPS to run for more than a few minutes? It's not a PC, where you need some time to save your work and shut it down. You're looking to prevent frequent power surges and losses and have enough time to turn the TV off. 

I have my rear protection CRT on a UPS. The DVR happens to be plugged into it, too.


----------



## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

Because where I live FPL struggles on a daily basis with wind, salt, and who knows what, and disruptions are routine, daily, and can be lengthy. For the two or three hundred bucks for a quality UPS I can bridge all but the longest ones, the question becomes not why, but why not.



tcusta00 said:


> Why do you need an entertainment center UPS to run for more than a few minutes? It's not a PC, where you need some time to save your work and shut it down. You're looking to prevent frequent power surges and losses and have enough time to turn the TV off.
> 
> I have my rear protection CRT on a UPS. The DVR happens to be plugged into it, too.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> Because where I live FPL struggles on a daily basis with wind, salt, and who knows what, and disruptions are routine, daily, and can be lengthy. For the two or three hundred bucks for a quality UPS I can bridge all but the longest ones, the question becomes not why, but why not.


In your case it sounds like a 1500 watt UPS is warranted. But your power issues aren't the norm.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> Thats about 350W. The DVRs use about 70 each I think. Not sure about the multiswitch, but at that price, I just ordered one for computer, which isnt close enough to my media closet to plug into the 1500VA UPS everything else is on. That is a great price.


It's more than 350 watts. Don't see anything on that link that specifies exactly what the actual wattage is but I have a few APC 550VA units that are rated at 330 watts, so I would think the unit in that link would be a bit higher than 350 watts.

If I remember correctly, the HRs only pull around 40 watts. Not sure and not gonna disconnect one to check it, but I don't think they come anywhere near 70 watts.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NR4P said:


> Yes, the TV pulls lots of power, particulary big screens and Plasmas.
> But I would rather protect my TV than the DVR.
> DVR cost $19.95 to replace without the protection plan. Free with protection plan.
> TV replacement cost alot more than that.
> ...


Living in Florida is a special case. Don't know the first thing about the power companies in Florida, but I've read enough posts from you guys to agree that you need big UPS devices just to put up with daily issues with your power. I'd guess that denizens of CA have the same types of issues. I've spent a lot of time in Maryland around Baltimore and the power doesn't seem to be much different than it is in Jersey. I've never had a UPS on any TV and have never had a problem. All my TVs are plasmas and putting UPS devices on them would cost a small fortune.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> In your case it sounds like a 1500 watt UPS is warranted. But your power issues aren't the norm.


I can't even imagine what living in Florida must be like. One of my shipmates called me the other day. He used to live in Akron and followed his kids to Florida. He's been down there for a couple years. I asked him what he thought about the heat and humidity. His answer, "Oppressive." But loneliness is oppressive too, so he stays.

Rich


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

rich584 said:


> It's more than 350 watts. Don't see anything on that link that specifies exactly what the actual wattage is but I have a few APC 550VA units that are rated at 330 watts, so I would think the unit in that link would be a bit higher than 350 watts.
> 
> If I remember correctly, the HRs only pull around 40 watts. Not sure and not gonna disconnect one to check it, but I don't think they come anywhere near 70 watts.
> 
> Rich


Yep, you're right... 375: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/soho-ups/cp625hg.html



rich584 said:


> Living in Florida is a special case. Don't know the first thing about the power companies in Florida, but I've read enough posts from you guys to agree that you need big UPS devices just to put up with daily issues with your power. I'd guess that denizens of CA have the same types of issues. I've spent a lot of time in Maryland around Baltimore and the power doesn't seem to be much different than it is in Jersey. I've never had a UPS on any TV and have never had a problem. All my TVs are plasmas and putting UPS devices on them would cost a small fortune.
> 
> Rich


Power is quite stable here. We only have surges during the worst of storms and very rare outages. In ten years I'd say a half dozen outages would be a high estimate.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Yep, you're right... 375:


The UPS designations really annoy me. Every electrician uses volts x amps as a quick measure of wattage and usually that's close enough even on a motor to size fuses or breakers using the 80% rule. But the VA they use means volts x amps x power factor. I really gotta wonder how many people buy them thinking VA is the actual wattage they are rated for. How many people even know how to use power factor in equations?



> Power is quite stable here. We only have surges during the worst of storms and very rare outages. In ten years I'd say a half dozen outages would be a high estimate.


Yeah, like I said in my other post, it's about like Jersey's power grid.

Rich


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> TV's really aren't meant to be on the battery side of a UPS. They drain the battery much faster than anything else.
> 
> Putting a TV on the battery side can turn a UPS that will run for 30 minutes into a UPS that runs for 10.


No reason not to put the TV on the battery side, and then just turn the TV off if you lose power while watching TV. The TV in standby won't draw enough power to significantly reduce the runtime of the UPS, and adding the TV to the battery side adds extra protection for it, especially if it's a UPS with AVR.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> No reason not to put the TV on the battery side, and then just turn the TV off if you lose power while watching TV. The TV in standby won't draw enough power to significantly reduce the runtime of the UPS, and adding the TV to the battery side adds extra protection for it, especially if it's a UPS with AVR.


You still have to match the UPS to the wattage of the devices that are gonna be on the UPS.

Rich


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> You still have to match the UPS to the wattage of the devices that are gonna be on the UPS.
> 
> Rich


That's true. Most of my UPSs are much higher rated than they need to be, so I never think about that.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> That's true. Most of my UPSs are much higher rated than they need to be, so I never think about that.


I always use the 80% rule on equipment such as a UPS. In other words, I only put devices on the UPS that pull 80% or lower wattage than the UPS is rated for. I also only load circuits to 80% or their capacity. It's not a rule that's mandated by any party, but it's served me well over the years.

Rich


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Any projection TV (be it old school projection, LCD projection, DLP, or LCoS) should absolutely be on the battery side of the UPS if the UPS will handle it. Those bulbs will not do well if power goes out and they lose their colling fan. The fan generally runs for a minute or so after the TV is powered off.


----------



## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

It depends on the TV and the backup. As a couple people posted an projection tv or DLP is probably going to do a lot better if left on the battery back up and turned off immediately if needed because it can properly cool down the bulb. The problem is that if surpass what the backup can provide it will immediately shut off. If your tv draws too much power it can trigger that and would make your battery back up completely useless. Personally I've got a 350va ACP backup that powers my Hr21, h24 and Power Inserter and it works just fine.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I have eliminated problems such as DVR Rebooting once I hooked my Home Entertainment Systems up to APC UPS units such as the S15 and the cheaper J15 which provide Battery Backup, Automatic Voltage Regulation, Line Conditioning and Surge Protection.

The S15 has 1500VA and 900 Watts. This is a $1500 APC and I bought it brand new for $300. So now I have 2 S15s and one J15.

I also have the APC ES 750 (750 VA and 450 Watts) on 2 of my other Home Entertainment Systems and I never experience a Reboot unless Directv does it.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

NR4P said:


> Yes, the TV pulls lots of power, particulary big screens and Plasmas.
> But I would rather protect my TV than the DVR.
> DVR cost $19.95 to replace without the protection plan. Free with protection plan.
> TV replacement cost alot more than that.
> ...


TV's don't really need a graceful shutdown. A TV is just fine on a good surge protector.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> You still have to match the UPS to the wattage of the devices that are gonna be on the UPS.
> 
> Rich


That's the key!


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Any projection TV (be it old school projection, LCD projection, DLP, or LCoS) should absolutely be on the battery side of the UPS if the UPS will handle it. Those bulbs will not do well if power goes out and they lose their colling fan. The fan generally runs for a minute or so after the TV is powered off.





RunnerFL said:


> TV's don't really need a graceful shutdown. A TV is just fine on a good surge protector.


We have two differing opinions here. I tend to agree with hilmark2k but RunnerFL, if you care to enlighten us on your reasoning I'd appreciate it.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> We have two differing opinions here. I tend to agree with hilmark2k but RunnerFL, if you care to enlighten us on your reasoning I'd appreciate it.


I have to agree with him. I've never had a TV on a UPS and never had a problem. I wish some of my 720p Panny plasmas would die so I have an excuse to buy 1080p sets, but these damn things are gonna last forever. 

Rich


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I have to agree with him. I've never had a TV on a UPS and never had a problem. I wish some of my 720p Panny plasmas would die so I have an excuse to buy 1080p sets, but these damn things are gonna last forever.
> 
> Rich


"Projection" was the key word in my post.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> "Projection" was the key word in my post.


Which is what I own.


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Which is what I own.


Well, then I'd definitely have it on a UPS. Those bulbs do not like shutting down abruptly without proper cooling. And if you've ever replaced the bulb, you know they aren't cheap.

I have a UPS on 3 of my 4 HR2x's, and my only projection TV (LCoS) is on the battery side.

Still can't find the downside as long as the UPS can handle it. As soon as power goes out, I would power off the TV and let the UPS cool the bulb. After that minute or so, the TV is pulling virtually no power.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

hilmar2k said:


> Well, then I'd definitely have it on a UPS. Those bulbs do not like shutting down abruptly without proper cooling. And if you've ever replaced the bulb, you know they aren't cheap.
> 
> I have a UPS on 3 of my 4 HR2x's, and my only projection TV (LCoS) is on the battery side.
> 
> Still can't find the downside as long as the UPS can handle it. As soon as power goes out, I would power off the TV and let the UPS cool the bulb. After that minute or so, the TV is pulling virtually no power.


Yep, that's what I was thinking. Can't be too safe.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

If you are having a bad electrical storm it might be wise to just unplug everything to be really on the safe side as a closeby lightning strike can still cause enormous damage even with a good surge protector.

Also, alot of Surge Protectors lose their inherent ability to Protect against strong surges depending upon the technology used.

Also, realize that your Batteries will have to be replaced after 3 or 4 years so find out what they cost as they ain't cheap and I already had to replace the Batteries in my S15 and my APC ES 750 (which only lasted 10 months).


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> We have two differing opinions here. I tend to agree with hilmark2k but RunnerFL, if you care to enlighten us on your reasoning I'd appreciate it.


Why do you think a TV needs a graceful shutdown? It's not like they are a PC that has a "shutdown". They are either on or they are off.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> Well, then I'd definitely have it on a UPS. Those bulbs do not like shutting down abruptly without proper cooling.


But there's no "cool down" when you press "off" on the remote so I don't get your logic here. Whether you turn it off by pressing off or by pulling the plug the result is the same.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Why do you think a TV needs a graceful shutdown? It's not like they are a PC that has a "shutdown". They are either on or they are off.


Because Hilmark told me so. :lol:



hilmar2k said:


> Any projection TV (be it old school projection, LCD projection, DLP, or LCoS) should absolutely be on the battery side of the UPS if the UPS will handle it. Those bulbs will not do well if power goes out and they lose their colling fan. The fan generally runs for a minute or so after the TV is powered off.


Are you saying he's incorrect? I don't know one way or the other.


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> But there's no "cool down" when you press "off" on the remote so I don't get your logic here. Whether you turn it off by pressing off or by pulling the plug the result is the same.


That would be 100% incorrect. All projection TV's that I know of run the colling fan for a period of time after powering off to allow for thorough cooling of the bulb. Without that cool down period, the life of the bulb will at best be reduced, and at worst be over. The bulbs for these TV's cost ~$300, so having it die prematurely is costly.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> That would be 100% incorrect. All projection TV's that I know of run the colling fan for a period of time after powering off to allow for thorough cooling of the bulb. Without that cool down period, the life of the bulb will at best be reduced, and at worst be over. The bulbs for these TV's cost ~$300, so having it die prematurely is costly.


That is correct, there is a timer on the fan, that causes it to run for a period of time after the power is turned off. This is necessary to properly cool down the bulb. If the plug is just pulled (or power is lost), that function is not performed, and bulb life is shortened. The bulb for my prior TV was about 165 bucks.

This is absolutely true for DLP TVs. I have not witnessed any fan action on an LCD or LED/LCD TV.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

rich584 said:


> It's more than 350 watts.


Since I didnt have it yet, I estimated low, since they are all different. Its actually 375W.


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Here it is from the manual for my TV, but the same basic principles apply to any DLP, LCD projection, CRT projection, or LCoS TV.



> *Cooling is also performed while the television is being shut down.*
> When the POWER button is pressed to turn off the power, the following operations are performed. When the television is turned off, the picture on the screen disappears. Once the screen is dark, cooling is performed for approximately 1 minute. When the cooling is being performed, the LAMP/PROGRAM LED indicator on the front panel blinks in orange at approximately every 3 seconds. *The television can not be operated while the cooling is being performed.* After the cooling has been performed for 1 minute, the power is turned off. *Do not remove the electrical plug until after the cooling process has completed.* If the electrical plug is removed before the cooling process has completed, the internal circuits and lamp may overheat leading to the life of the lamp being shortened and the possibility of malfunctions.


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> TV's don't really need a graceful shutdown. A TV is just fine on a good surge protector.


I would agree with that statement except for TVs that use active cooling like DLP, which would benefit from the 1 minute of fan runtime after the TV is powered off. I have my LCD plugged into the surge outlet on the UPS, everything else is on the battery side, including a small 9" battery powered lcd tv so I can watch any emergency stuff until the UPS dies, and then OTA for another 60 minutes on the TV battery. If I am still here after all that, Im good to go


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

hasan said:


> That is correct, there is a timer on the fan, that causes it to run for a period of time after the power is turned off. This is necessary to properly cool down the bulb. If the plug is just pulled (or power is lost), that function is not performed, and bulb life is shortened. The bulb for my prior TV was about 165 bucks.
> 
> This is absolutely true for DLP TVs. I have not witnessed any fan action on an LCD or LED/LCD TV.


I have a RP LCD projection tv that also runs a fan to cool the bulb, it also runs for a time after you turn off the tv.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Scott Kocourek said:


> I have a RP LCD projection tv that also runs a fan to cool the bulb, it also runs for a time after you turn off the tv.


I understand those Bulbs are Expensive!!!

So Best to Cool them down!!!


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> That would be 100% incorrect. All projection TV's that I know of run the colling fan for a period of time after powering off to allow for thorough cooling of the bulb. Without that cool down period, the life of the bulb will at best be reduced, and at worst be over. The bulbs for these TV's cost ~$300, so having it die prematurely is costly.


My old rear-projection tv doesn't have a fan that runs after it's turned off. Once it's off, it's off.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> My old rear-projection tv doesn't have a fan that runs after it's turned off. Once it's off, it's off.


It seems other models do. So it's best to put them on a UPS.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> My old rear-projection tv doesn't have a fan that runs after it's turned off. Once it's off, it's off.


I can't believe that people actually have the rear-projection tvs still.

I gave mine away but it was Top Of The Line Mitsubishi in it's day. Too Big and Heavy and used too much electricity so it had to go to make room for my 55" Fujitsu Plasma.

I can't tell you how much that thing cost!!! :lol:


----------



## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Yup, mine is going on 6 years now and it is still running the original bulb. I been thinking of ordering another one to brighten the old girl back up. It's kind of hard to part with a 55" tv that I paid a butt load of money for, now I could probably buy 3 that size for what I paid.


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> My old rear-projection tv doesn't have a fan that runs after it's turned off. Once it's off, it's off.


That's the exception, not the rule. Maybe some old CRT projection TVs don't have cooling fans, but all of the more recent stuff does.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

richierich said:


> I can't believe that people actually have the rear-projection tvs still.


Because they still work extremely well and have pictures rivaling that of the newest LCDs. At least that's my reason.

The size doesn't phase me. If I bought an LCD or plasma I'd have to buy an entertainment center to put it on... which would be larger than the footprint of the current tv.

$$$ doesn't grow on trees.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> $$$ doesn't grow on trees.


Wrong as I have Money Growing on Trees in my back yard and all I have to do is go out back and do some Pruning!!!

I guess Turtles don't know about Money Growing Trees!!!! :lol:


----------



## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

richierich said:


> I can't believe that people actually have the rear-projection tvs still.
> 
> I gave mine away but it was Top Of The Line Mitsubishi in it's day. Too Big and Heavy and used too much electricity so it had to go to make room for my 55" Fujitsu Plasma.
> 
> I can't tell you how much that thing cost!!! :lol:


my sony kds 60a3000 projection is only 90lbs and 16 3/8" deep does 1080p/24 and i'd bet it uses less electricity then your plasma. I put 10500 hours on the bulb and it was still going but i changed it out. It was only rated for 8000 hours


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> I can't believe that people actually have the rear-projection tvs still.


Mine has been moved to my bedroom, but hey it still works and the picture is great. It does 1080i so I'm not complaining.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Which is what I own.


Well, you didn't say that and I'm not one of the privileged members that can access the setups on the posts. Yeah, I'd go for a UPS on one of those, too. Maybe.

Wonder why I can't access the setups on anyone's posts? Gotta be a CE member to do that?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> But there's no "cool down" when you press "off" on the remote so I don't get your logic here. Whether you turn it off by pressing off or by pulling the plug the result is the same.


I think the cooling fan runs for a while after the Off button is pressed. Even the TVs are never really "off". I used my Kill-a-Watt on one of my TVs and it was still pulling amps when it was "off".

Rich


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Wonder why I can't access the setups on anyone's posts? Gotta be a CE member to do that?
> 
> Rich


There should be no reason why you can't access the Setups that people post as it is just a link to their Setup Post in the Setup Thread.

CE has absolutely nothing to do with your not being able to Open a Link to a poster's Setup.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Scott Kocourek said:


> Yup, mine is going on 6 years now and it is still running the original bulb. I been thinking of ordering another one to brighten the old girl back up. It's kind of hard to part with a 55" tv that I paid a butt load of money for, now I could probably buy 3 that size for what I paid.


I can't believe how long TVs last. When I was switching over to all HD sets, I gave away a bunch of SD TVs. The oldest was a 27" Sony that still had a good picture on it. It was well over 20 years old.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> There should be no reason why you can't access the Setups that people post as it is just a link to their Setup Post in the Setup Thread.
> 
> CE has absolutely nothing to do with your not being able to Open a Link to a poster's Setup.


Can't do it. Been like that for a long time.

Rich


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Can't do it. Been like that for a long time.
> 
> Rich


PM a Mod or Doug Brott or Stuart Sweet and see what they say to do. I'm sure they can correct it and it may be a setting in your UserCP.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I used my Kill-a-Watt on one of my TVs and it was still pulling amps when it was "off".


Which is a good reason why not to have it on the battery side of a UPS. You're still draining the battery even with the tv off.


----------



## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Which is a good reason why not to have it on the battery side of a UPS. You're still draining the battery even with the tv off.


i would rather shut down everything correctly and drain the battery than damage a $100 bulb.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

"rich584" said:


> Well, you didn't say that and I'm not one of the privileged members that can access the setups on the posts. Yeah, I'd go for a UPS on one of those, too. Maybe.
> 
> Wonder why I can't access the setups on anyone's posts? Gotta be a CE member to do that?
> 
> Rich


I was replying to a post about projection tvs so I thought it was implied. Sorry.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Christopher Gould said:


> i would rather shut down everything correctly and drain the battery than damage a $100 bulb.


I don't think *RunnerFL* is talking about TVs with bulbs. I know I'm only concerned with plasmas, altho I do find the posts about the TVs with bulbs interesting and can certainly see the need for a UPS on them.

Rich


----------



## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I have a APC ES450,glad i read this thread.Now i am thing of getting a bigger unit for the living room and moving this unit into the bedroom.I feel it is a little under powered for what's plugged into it.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

gfrang said:


> I have a APC ES450,glad i read this thread.Now i am thing of getting a bigger unit for the living room and moving this unit into the bedroom.I feel it is a little under powered for what's plugged into it.


The UPS devices seem to lend themselves very nicely to the 80% rule. So if I had a UPS that was rated at 1000 watts, I wouldn't put devices on it that totaled over 800 watts. No worries about overloading a 1000 watt UPS pulling 800 watts of juice.

You can get a nice Tripplite at Costco for $99. I think it may be a 1000 watt model. I've got one, I'll look for the box.

Rich


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

I have this one for my living room system and really like it.

http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=204297449


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> PM a Mod or Doug Brott or Stuart Sweet and see what they say to do. I'm sure they can correct it and it may be a setting in your UserCP.


You do have to opt in to the CE program. Per Doug. Did it.

Rich


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

gfrang said:


> I have a APC ES450,glad i read this thread.Now i am thing of getting a bigger unit for the living room and moving this unit into the bedroom.I feel it is a little under powered for what's plugged into it.


Check out the ES 750.

However, I can't believe I bought the APC S15 for $300 with Pure Sine Waves, Automatic Voltage Regulation, Surge Protection and Line Conditioning with 12 Outlets and 1440 VA Capacity at 900 Watts Continuous.

I can get up to 2 hours of Battery Backup if I turn off my LCD TV and just listen to the Broadcast such as The Weather Channel.

This is a $1500 Unit when I bought one 3 years ago (I paid wholesale due to a friend in the Home Theater Business).

What a deal but it is Great to get whatever will keep your Home Entertainment as safe as possible and not have to worry about Rebooting during a Super Bowl or whatever that is Important to you.

I hardly ever get Reboots unless it is caused by Directv doing an Update.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> I was replying to a post about projection tvs so I thought it was implied. Sorry.


No offense meant, should have thrown in a smilie.....

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I don't think *RunnerFL* is talking about TVs with bulbs. I know I'm only concerned with plasmas, altho I do find the posts about the TVs with bulbs interesting and can certainly see the need for a UPS on them.


The posts about TVs with bulbs are interesting since my rear projection does not have a fan.

I'm definitely not saying anyone that plugs a TV into the battery side of a UPS is a moron or anything like that, just saying it seems like a waste to me. Wouldn't the bulb still cool down just using ambient temp or are the TVs not ventilated?


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

rich584 said:


> No offense meant, should have thrown in a smilie.....
> 
> Rich


Oh, none taken. I know you. Lol


----------



## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> The posts about TVs with bulbs are interesting since my rear projection does not have a fan.
> 
> I'm definitely not saying anyone that plugs a TV into the battery side of a UPS is a moron or anything like that, just saying it seems like a waste to me. Wouldn't the bulb still cool down just using ambient temp or are the TVs not ventilated?


Obviously, if the tv doesn't have a fan running then there really isn't a need for graceful shutdown.

My initial reaction was always the same as you. Loosing power and the fan is just going to cause it to cool off slower, no big deal, but they must put it in there for a reason. When you are talking about a 100+$ bulb that you are trying to keep cool it really doesn't hurt to spend a little more on a UPS so it can shut down gracefully if you're gonna have one anyway.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> You do have to opt in to the CE program. Per Doug. Did it.
> 
> Rich


I Never would have thought that you had to OPT into the CE Program to be allowed to View Setups.

I learn something New everyday. Anyway, Great that you can now View Setups.


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

richierich said:


> I Never would have thought that you had to OPT into the CE Program to be allowed to View Setups.
> 
> I learn something New everyday. Anyway, Great that you can now View Setups.


The setups thread is solely for the use of the CE program, therefore that thread is housed in the CE area. Everyone is welcome to put their setups in their signatures as well (without a link to the offcial CE setup thread) if they want others to know their setups. However, the purpose of that setups thread is to let DIRECTV and the mods know what your setup looks like for the purposes of testing new software and hardware and how your particular setup may be affecting or affected by the software or hardware.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> The setups thread is solely for the use of the CE program, therefore that thread is housed in the CE area. Everyone is welcome to put their setups in their signatures as well (without a link to the offcial CE setup thread) if they want others to know their setups. However, the purpose of that setups thread is to let DIRECTV and the mods know what your setup looks like for the purposes of testing new software and hardware and how your particular setup may be affecting or affected by the software or hardware.


Well, that makes a whole lot of sense. Glad we could get Rich straightened out. Thanks for the info, tcusta00


----------



## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

You aren't draining the battery so long as the UPS sees power at the wall.



RunnerFL said:


> Which is a good reason why not to have it on the
> battery side of a UPS. You're still draining the battery even with the tv off.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> The posts about TVs with bulbs are interesting since my rear projection does not have a fan.
> 
> I'm definitely not saying anyone that plugs a TV into the battery side of a UPS is a moron or anything like that, just saying it seems like a waste to me. *Wouldn't the bulb still cool down just using ambient temp or are the TVs not ventilated?*


I'd think so, but if the manufacturers choose to stipulate that the fan must run for a period of time in their TVs on shutdown, I'd go with that. From an electrical point of view, any (incandescent) bulb is at risk when turned on because of the inrush current. Conversely, there is little risk when turning them off. Inrush current only comes into play when a device is turned on.

I was always grateful when I installed a device I was unfamiliar with if the manufacturer supplied a manual or at least a fairly decent amount of literature about the device. And I adhered to the instructions. So, if I had a TV with a manual that specified a "graceful" shutdown, I'd follow those instructions and put the TV on a UPS.

For my plasmas, I don't think they are necessary.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

tcusta00 said:


> Oh, none taken. I know you. Lol


After I read my post, I thought you might take it wrong. Glad you didn't and it spurred me into finally taking the steps to be able to see what folks' setups are. When I reread my post, my first thought was, "Geez, I sound snotty in that post when I meant it to be humorous." Just a simple smilie would have solved that problem.....

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

evan_s said:


> Obviously, if the tv doesn't have a fan running then there really isn't a need for graceful shutdown.
> 
> My initial reaction was always the same as you. Loosing power and the fan is just going to cause it to cool off slower, no big deal, but they must put it in there for a reason. When you are talking about a 100+$ bulb that you are trying to keep cool it really doesn't hurt to spend a little more on a UPS so it can shut down gracefully if you're gonna have one anyway.


Another thing to remember is that manufacturers pay a lot of money for the manuals for their devices. If they choose to specify certain steps that seem abnormal, it's for a reason. It costs them more money to add extra instructions to the manuals.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I Never would have thought that you had to OPT into the CE Program to be allowed to View Setups.
> 
> I learn something New everyday. Anyway, Great that you can now View Setups.


I just glanced at your setup. How long did it take to type that.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

JeffBowser said:


> You aren't draining the battery so long as the UPS sees power at the wall.


I wasn't born yesterday, I realize that and that's not what I'm talking about. When the power is out your using battery power to "cool" a bulb that takes away from battery power to keep your DVRs, and other devices, up.


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I wasn't born yesterday, I realize that and that's not what I'm talking about. When the power is out your using battery power to "cool" a bulb that takes away from battery power to keep your DVRs, and other devices, up.


How much power do you think that fan uses for the one minute it runs?


----------



## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> Because they still work extremely well and have pictures rivaling that of the newest LCDs. At least that's my reason.


Some would say better than the newest LCDs. Plasma technology has finally matured enough for me to consider it for my next purchase, although an SXRD front projector is just as attractive.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> How much power do you think that fan uses for the one minute it runs?


I give up... I don't know why I even bother on here sometimes, everyone else just wants to argue anyways.


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I give up... I don't know why I even bother on here sometimes, everyone else just wants to argue anyways.


Wow...

You seem Hell bent on not letting a UPS cool a bulb which can cost upwards of $300. I am not arguing, just trying to understand your logic.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hilmar2k said:


> How much power do you think that fan uses for the one minute it runs?


Very Very Little!!!


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> You seem Hell bent on not letting a UPS cool a bulb which can cost upwards of $300.


No, and that's where you are wrong but I'm sure you won't accept being wrong.

I was never arguing anything with anyone, you just assumed I was so you set out to belittle me. If you don't want to read my posts please ignore them.


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> No, and that's where you are wrong but I'm sure you won't accept being wrong.
> 
> I was never arguing anything with anyone, you just assumed I was so you set out to belittle me. If you don't want to read my posts please ignore them.


Really? Belittle? If being corrected when you make a false statement is belittling, then I apologize.

My only dialog with you in this entire thread is to correct you when you said that a TV did not need a graceful shutdown, and that when you hit the off button, the TV is all the way off. I only pointed out that virtually all current projection TV's do, in fact, require a graceful shutdown, and continue to run for about a minute to run the fan. That's all.


----------



## HarryD (Mar 24, 2002)

I have three of these and they work great...nice price too...


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

hilmar2k said:


> Really? Belittle? If being corrected when you make a false statement is belittling, then I apologize.


I made no false statement, you just want to imply that I did.



hilmar2k said:


> My only dialog with you in this entire thread is to correct you when you said that a TV did not need a graceful shutdown, and that when you hit the off button, the TV is all the way off. I only pointed out that virtually all current projection TV's do, in fact, require a graceful shutdown, and continue to run for about a minute to run the fan. That's all.


I still stand by my statement too. They do not need a graceful shutdown, it is not required as you state. Does it help prolong bulb life? Sure... Is it required? No...


----------



## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I still stand by my statement too. They do not need a graceful shutdown, it is not required as you state. Does it help prolong bulb life? Sure... Is it required? No...


IT NEEDS A GRACEFUL SHUTDOWN TO PROLONG BULB LIFE.

/story

Wow. :nono2:


----------



## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I still stand by my statement too. They do not need a graceful shutdown, it is not required as you state. Does it help prolong bulb life? Sure... Is it required? No...


Define 'require' then? Using that logic your PC doesn't need a graceful shutdown either.

All I know is that this sounds a lot like 'require' to me:



> *Cooling is also performed while the television is being shut down.*When the POWER button is pressed to turn off the power, the following operations are performed. When the television is turned off, the picture on the screen disappears. Once the screen is dark, cooling is performed for approximately 1 minute. When the cooling is being performed, the LAMP/PROGRAM LED indicator on the front panel blinks in orange at approximately every 3 seconds. The television can not be operated while the cooling is being performed. After the cooling has been performed for 1 minute, the power is turned off. Do not remove the electrical plug until after the cooling process has completed. If the electrical plug is removed before the cooling process has completed, the internal circuits and lamp may overheat leading to the life of the lamp being shortened and the possibility of malfunctions.


----------



## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

In a prior life I was a QC director at an electronics mfg here in the US (back when things were still made in the US). It was, and is, common knowledge in the industry that power cycles are among the biggest things that shorten the lifespan of electronics, and is one of the reasons modern electronics are never fully shut off.

Now, I know logic has a hard time prevailing over emotion on internet forums, but there ya have it. I did life-cycle testing on computer HDDs for years - their power cycle lifetime was always reached long before their power-on hours lifetime was reached, and many engineering hours were spent trying to control inrush current to lessen the impact of power cycling.


----------



## VARTV (Dec 14, 2006)

maartena said:


> If you have an unstable grid, this is a great solution.
> 
> A TV however, would go through the energy provided by a battery in a few minutes. If you want to watch TV during an outage, I would get a generator.


This is what I did but everything is connected to the UPS. I use it as a bridge from the time I lose street power to the time the generator takes over (20~25 seconds)...


----------



## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

CRT projection TVs do not have bulbs, and do not use fans to cool them. They don't necessarily need to be put on a UPS.

LCD, DLP, and LCOS/SXRD projection TVs all use bulbs, and as far as I know all have fans to help cool the bulbs. These fans not only help cool the bulbs, but also help keep the other electronics around the bulbs cool. If you pull the power from the TV and don't allow the fan to properly cool the bulbs it reduces the life of the bulbs themselves, and can also overheat the electronics around the bulbs and cause other failures. Most of these projection TVs will have warnings about this and a lot of them will actually suggest that the TVs are plugged into a UPS if possible to help lessen the possibility of improper shutdown happening.

So while a UPS may not be required for these projection TVs it is probably a good idea. Just like most of us agree that it is a good idea to have your DVR on a UPS. Is it a requirement, no (and actualy as others have mentioned a lot of the time the Techs/CSRs will tell you not to use one, that you should only plug them directly into the wall).


----------



## JeffBowser (Dec 21, 2006)

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine any situation where a UPS would NOT be a good idea, assuming the UPS can handle the load. And, save the square wave arguments, that's another subject.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> I just glanced at your setup. How long did it take to type that.....:lol:
> 
> Rich


A Very Long Time to Add Everything to my Setup but it is my Lifelong Hobby!!!

Also, Directv looks at these Setups to determine who they want to include in their testing of various products so you need to be comprehensive in your Setup Information if you want a chance to be included.

I'm still behind you though as far as number of DVRs and Storage Capacity!!! :lol:

I like that Idea of having a small 9" TV where you can monitor The Weather Channel or whatever as long as you have battery power without using the LCD or Plasma to eat up alot of battery power.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I give up... I don't know why I even bother on here sometimes, everyone else just wants to argue anyways.


Don't feel bad, he does have a point. Probably a negligible amount of juice is used, certainly not enough to put a strain on the UPS.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JeffBowser said:


> In a prior life I was a QC director at an electronics mfg here in the US (back when things were still made in the US). It was, and is, common knowledge in the industry that power cycles are among the biggest things that shorten the lifespan of electronics, and is one of the reasons modern electronics are never fully shut off.
> 
> Now, I know logic has a hard time prevailing over emotion on internet forums, but there ya have it. I did life-cycle testing on computer HDDs for years - their power cycle lifetime was always reached long before their power-on hours lifetime was reached, and many engineering hours were spent trying to control inrush current to lessen the impact of power cycling.


I've seen that same logic applied to lighting, too. And I believe it. Inrush current is normal and all devices are built to withstand it under normal operations. But it's also comparatively massive compared to what the normal operating current is. You keep turning anything on and off constantly and you're just gonna destroy the device.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> A Very Long Time to Add Everything to my Setup but it is my Lifelong Hobby!!!
> 
> Also, Directv looks at these Setups to determine who they want to include in their testing of various products so you need to be comprehensive in your Setup Information if you want a chance to be included.
> 
> ...


I just bought another 2TB EVDS to replace a 1.5TB Seagate Cuda that's failing. 500 more GBs!!!

Rich


----------



## Podkayne (Nov 1, 2007)

David Ortiz said:


> Some would say better than the newest LCDs. Plasma technology has finally matured enough for me to consider it for my next purchase, although an SXRD front projector is just as attractive.


My very first HD TV purchase was a Panasonic 58" plasma in summer 2007. I heartily recommend a plasma; its picture is quite "natural". Some of the newer LCD sets almost look cartoonish, and the picture looks computer-generated. To each his own, I suppose.

The drawback to the TV is that it draws 600+ watts and runs quite warm - mine is not plugged in to the battery side of a UPS since I don't mind if it shuts off from having the plug pulled, as it were.


----------



## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

I ended up getting this UPS. http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE750G


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

SParker said:


> I ended up getting this UPS. http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE750G


I have 2 of those ES 750s and they work Great. One of mine had a Bad Battery that went out after only 10 months of use but they replaced it for Free under the Terms of the Warranty.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

In noticing the title of this thread...

I always thought that the words "cheap" and "battery back-up" should never be used in the same sentence.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In noticing the title of this thread...
> 
> I always thought that the words "cheap" and "battery back-up" should never be used in the same sentence.


How about a Less Expensive Battery Backup??? :lol:


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In noticing the title of this thread...
> 
> I always thought that the words "cheap" and "battery back-up" should never be used in the same sentence.


Thrifty? Cost-benefit effective? Value-based? Frugal? 
You pays yer money and you takes yer cherce....


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> Thrifty? Cost-benefit effective? Value-based? Frugal?
> You pays yer money and you takes yer cherce....


I want the Best Battery Backup/Line Conditioner/Automatic Voltage Regulator/Surge Protector at the Best Price that I can get as I have over $60,000 invested in my Home Entertainment Systems so I want Protection and the Best & Cleanest & Reliable Current possible so I was amazed when I found an APC S15 (normally $1500) for $300 so I jumped all over it but I have too much electronic stuff to worry about losing it without surge protection or by supplying it without having steady voltalge.


----------



## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

richierich said:


> I want the Best Battery Backup/Line Conditioner/Automatic Voltage Regulator/Surge Protector at the Best Price that I can get as I have over $60,000 invested in my Home Entertainment Systems so I want Protection and the Best & Cleanest & Reliable Current possible so I was amazed when I found an APC S15 (normally $1500) for $300 so I jumped all over it but I have too much electronic stuff to worry about losing it without surge protection or by supplying it without having steady voltalge.


Sweet Catch!

I agree with you. My sunk cost is waaaaay below that, and where I live, we have almost zero outages or surges. But I do have _*cheap - er*_. lo-cost surge protectors.


----------



## chance (Aug 29, 2006)

Just a heads up, saw an S15 on Vanns site for $299 if anyone is interested.
Free shipping as well !!



richierich said:


> I want the Best Battery Backup/Line Conditioner/Automatic Voltage Regulator/Surge Protector at the Best Price that I can get as I have over $60,000 invested in my Home Entertainment Systems so I want Protection and the Best & Cleanest & Reliable Current possible so I was amazed when I found an APC S15 (normally $1500) for $300 so I jumped all over it but I have too much electronic stuff to worry about losing it without surge protection or by supplying it without having steady voltalge.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

chance said:


> Just a heads up, saw an S15 on Vanns site for $299 if anyone is interested.
> Free shipping as well !!


That is where I bought mine and when it first came out it was priced at $1500 so that is a Steal.


----------

