# Does E* have a working receiver???



## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

Hi,
I've posted before about my problems with constantly rebooting 622. We had 622 from June, 2007. Jan 5, 2008, it was replaced because of constant rebooting problem. And, again first part of February. And, first part of March. They sent us a new 722. It rebooted first day. Now, after a week, it is belly-up. We are not going to deal with CSR's again. Life is too short. We have a buddy at [email protected] who we will call in the morning.

I was looking at what receivers are available. Certainly, the 622 and 722 are out. We loved our DVR, but now, couldn't care less. What good are a lot of recorded programs if your receiver keeps dying?? We are looking at non-DVR receivers-give them some time to fix this known problem. Looking at the 222, I see lots of problems with locking up. We do want HD (so, MPEG4 necessary). Any ideas where to turn??

We have been trying to make sense of this problem. For the last 3 months, I have been spending 20% of my cell phone minutes talking to E*. We have been spending weeks without TV. When I first reported problem, there was hardly anyone reporting a problem. Now, there are a lot of people reporting the same problem, with multiple receivers. Same with the 222. Seems like everyone had good experiences for months or years, now nothing but repeated problems with many receivers. So, what could cause this? Seems like software type of thing, but software issues are not usually this ongoing, getting worse as time goes on. You begin to think there is a virus out there.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

So to recap.... you have had multiple 622s and a 722 and all have exhibited the same problem. From what I know here there is a few people going through multiple receiver issues while most users users have not. Not sure why this is the case.. 

Whenever I see an issue like this that has multiple receivers involved and actually different receivers having similar problems, I believe it is a case of being very unlucky and getting a number of lemons or possible external factors. In your case I see your are running totally on Solar power and I do recall replying to some of your posts. 

You also turn on and off the 622/722 frequently which thought I don't see why it would make a difference it is not the normal operating procedure for the unit. 99% of the users keep them all the time. 

Personally I think continuing swapping boxes is going to bring you to the same conclusion.. Not sure what the solution is, but you might consider given a UPS a shot and running it 24x7 for a while and see if the problems disappear. 

I need to go back and re-read your posts, but that is my thoughts at the moment... There are a lot of 622/722s users that are very happy with there boxes and have had the boxes for the long time. The fact your 722 did not last long really makes me wonder that something in your environment or how you interact with the devices are a contributing factor.


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## Bayview (Mar 17, 2008)

I see that you are "100% solar powered". I have no idea what your power equipment is, but you might consider the possibility that the output of your DC/AC conversion equipment is producing "dirty" AC. Maybe there are some dropouts or waveform problems that the receiver can't deal with.

Consider adding some power conditioning in the form of a small UPS.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

I sure agree with your points. Both of us are from engineering backgrounds, so we come to the same conclusions. We have literally lost sleep over this, trying to figure out what might be a cause in our case, and not others.

Interesting to me, it seems that there are more people lately with the same problems (some have contacted me privately). And, it seems that those people had receivers that worked for a long time, then had multiple receivers that didn't.

About the power setup and turning on and off, we recently had 'shore' power available to us, so have been using it, since the sun has been low on horizon and charging has been less. So, receiver has been powered by regular electrical hookups, and we have also plugged it directly into 110V pure sine wave inverter, which is a very good power source with nothing but the receiver plugged into it, with no power surges, glitches, or other electrical ghosts and goblins. Since we have had power hookup, we have not been turning receiver on and off. In all cases, receivers have continued to reboot. Also, since we have had the 722 (1 week), it has been very mild temperatures here, so temperature is not a problem.

When we talk to Dish, they never indicate that they think temperature, power source, number of events, or anything like this is a problem. They do recognize it as a problem. We are just like you-why us, and why numerous times. We really have a simple installation-1 receiver, 1 antenna, 1 tv. If it was just us, it would be different. There are several people posting to the forum with the same occurrance of problems. And, there are others personal mailing me. And, there are those (I'm sure the majority) that lurk hoping for an answer, and others that don't even know DBSTalk exists. So, it's not just us. And, the scenario is so much the same-good receiver for months/years, then they start dying in the same manner. We were automatically upgraded to a 722 because 3 of our 622's died. Now, I notice some of the posters are going the same route. I don't care what receiver I have, just so it works. We really have never been so frustrated.

****************

Whenever I see an issue like this that has multiple receivers involved and actually different receivers having similar problems, I believe it is a case of being very unlucky and getting a number of lemons or possible external factors. In your case I see your are running totally on Solar power and I do recall replying to some of your posts. 

You also turn on and off the 622/722 frequently which thought I don't see why it would make a difference it is not the normal operating procedure for the unit. 99% of the users keep them all the time. 

Personally I think continuing swapping boxes is going to bring you to the same conclusion.. Not sure what the solution is, but you might consider given a UPS a shot and running it 24x7 for a while and see if the problems disappear.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well I am definitely not a hardware guy. Software is my bag.. So hopefully someone with more installation experience might have some suggesting but one thing you have done is change the receiver component and even changed the hardware type and the problem has not gone away. Has any of the other hardware been swapped out? the LNBF? Has the grounding been checked? 

Glad you mentioned temperature... that is also a common cause of these type of problems... Is it in an open or closed cabinet. If you are in a enclosed cabinet without forced ventilation that might be the cause, but from your reply it sounds like you have ruled it out. 

If others are having this same issue.. Please.. Please.. Reply with as much details of your set up.. 
How many box swaps you have done. 
Were the boxes refurbished that you got? 
How long has it been between box swaps? 
When the boxes reboot are you performing and action or does it reboot on its own?
Is the WD timers high on your receivers? 
What is your Timers events and Timer counts on your boxes?. 
Do you have external drives connected?
Details about your installation? Receiver ->switch-> Dish? Receiver to Dish?
Any other details you think are important? 

Ok... Lets try and gather as much information as possible in this thread and hopefully the dish E* team will see it and it might trigger something. The more info the better and any small detail that you might think not important.. Please include... Be surprised at what small detail might trigger something to an Engineer.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

Ron,
Thanks for the effort. My information is in the text below.

 Another question to ask: Have you, after several replaced receivers, had one that worked? Did you do anything to make it work, or was it just lucky to get a receiver that worked?



Ron Barry said:


> Well I am definitely not a hardware guy. Software is my bag.. So hopefully someone with more installation experience might have some suggesting but one thing you have done is change the receiver component and even changed the hardware type and the problem has not gone away. Has any of the other hardware been swapped out? the LNBF? Has the grounding been checked?
> 
> Glad you mentioned temperature... that is also a common cause of these type of problems... Is it in an open or closed cabinet. If you are in a enclosed cabinet without forced ventilation that might be the cause, but from your reply it sounds like you have ruled it out. It's a cabinet, but not enclosed. About 4 inches on top, chunk of wood below to elevate receiver. Average temp 111.
> 
> ...


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I have installed 622's and know of at least 4 people that have had to have multiple replacements ( can't comment on the 722 as I have only installed 2). All 4 have had Dish DVR's and replaced them with 622s. The previous DVRs ( 5xx receivers ) never had problems. All 4 are fine now after multiple replacements.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

BNUMM.. 4 out of how many installs? Were the replacements referbs or new boxes or a combination? Did you find anything in common? Similar install etc?


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## fredinva (May 10, 2006)

I've installed dozens of 622/722s.
They have been very stable. maybe two replacements

fred


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> BNUMM.. 4 out of how many installs? Were the replacements referbs or new boxes or a combination? Did you find anything in common? Similar install etc?


Are you asking how many installs total or how many 622/722 installs? I am only guessing but I believe we have installed about 25 total of 622/722s. I do not know if the replacements were refurbished or new. The only thing I can think of that was common is that they were on a Dish 1000. All were grounded, all were existing DVR users ( with no previous problems ), no wall plates in the lines, all ground blocks were high frequency ground blocks, all had RG-6 (no in wall cable )from dish to receiver. All appear to be working fine now. I know that one person had 3 replacements and I believe the others had 2.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yeah.. I was mainly interested in the 622/722 installs and trying to get a better feel for the issue.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

I have been an Echostar customer for over 11 years and I have never HAD to have a receiver replaced. I have had my share of software problems (especially with the model 7xxx receivers) but I struggled through those problems. I do know a few people that have had almost continuous problems with replacement receivers but, they are very rare. 

I am both a hardware (EE degree) and software (Computer Science degree) guy and a couple of local dealers (one sells DirecTV and the other one does DISH installs, he is a subcontractor) often ask for my help with really hard problems. On the ones that I have looked at over the years I found that problems like bonipie is having were due to some electrical problem. Some of those problems were, power spikes, ground loops, missing or improper grounds, "non-steady" power (in one case voltage was sagging to 90 volts when a well pump kicked in), and, in a very rare case one family had a problem where they had some signal "riding" their 60 Hz power (that turned out to be some power company problem) that caused their receiver to reboot (it was a DirecTV receiver).

I would advise bonipie to really look at the power going to his receiver. As Bayview suggested he may have "dirty AC". And, also as he said, I highly recommend a UPS and don't get one of those cheap ($39) ones.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

I have had a 2700, 3 DP 7200/7100 a 921, 2 622s never had a single falure, installed all my dishes. have never had a installer at my home Never grounded a dish and every rec. has been on a backup power supply and have never called dish other than to turn on a new rec.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I have run into 4 places that have had voltage problems. 2 were in rural areas. One was DirecTv and 1 was DishNetwork. They were both SD receivers. 3rd ( DishNetwork ) had a lightning strike that damaged the electrical system in part of the house. After the electric was repaired everything was fine. 4th ( DishNetwork ) had a heat tape wire fall on the frame of a mobile home. The wire was 120 volts and made the ground hot. When the wire was removed everything was fine. None of the previous incidents were DVRs. 

Electric problems were not present with the bad 622s. I believe they were just bad receivers because eventually they all got a working receiver eventually.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

So, what would a UPS do that our a/c power supply does not? We have tried all failed receivers on traditional house power, 2 different inverters, generator, different outlets, checked grounds, etc. Never had anything else fail on any of our power sources.


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## DustoMan (Jul 16, 2005)

Could it be possible that some kinda of power surge could be coming through your dish? Are you using a powered switch as part of your installation? I have a DP Plus 44 Switch on mine and there's a power brick I need to plug in down by my receiver to power it.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

HI,
Well, new 722 is on the way. But, in the meantime, our hard drive died. Talking to tech support, they are very familiar with rebooting problem. We talked quite a bit about people having multiple receivers exhibiting the same problem, as in our case, and he (or me, I can't really remember the whole conversation) felt that basically, once you get a rebooting receiver, you send it in, they can't really find any thing wrong with it (can't imagine how-all we have sent are totally dead), so referbish (whatever that means) it and send it back out. And, there are lots of these bad receivers recirculating. And, then, if you get enough of these referbs, finally one is going to work. And, again, I emphasize, they are very familiar with the problem and there is not one question about events, power surges, or temperature. We'll see how this one goes.


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## cwbuckley (Jan 10, 2006)

Sorry that you are having problems with your E* receivers. In the time that I was with E* I had very little in the way of problems with my HD receivers. I had the 622 and the non HD DVR receivers(forgot the number). The receivers is not which I switched to D*. In fact I like E* receivers a little bit better the D* receivers. Both are good.

Good luck getting some receivers that work.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

bonipie said:


> HI,
> Well, new 722 is on the way. But, in the meantime, our hard drive died. Talking to tech support, they are very familiar with rebooting problem. We talked quite a bit about people having multiple receivers exhibiting the same problem, as in our case, and he (or me, I can't really remember the whole conversation) felt that basically, once you get a rebooting receiver, you send it in, they can't really find any thing wrong with it (can't imagine how-all we have sent are totally dead), so referbish (whatever that means) it and send it back out. And, there are lots of these bad receivers recirculating. And, then, if you get enough of these referbs, finally one is going to work. And, again, I emphasize, they are very familiar with the problem and there is not one question about events, power surges, or temperature. We'll see how this one goes.


It is possible that what we are seeing is a production related issue or what is being discussed here is a combination of both production related issues combained with some installation issues (I am not talking about your specific issue but multiple receiver swaps in general). At this point I don't any conclusions can be drawn.

Possible doing the box shuffle might eventually get you there bonipie, but like I said I have my doubts and that is why the suggestion on double checking and minimizing the external variables.

As for not mentioning what we mention here. Well really depends who you talk to. Well from my experience... Tech Support has a different perspective than we do. Box swapping to them is common course in issue resolution while we tend to try and dig a bit deeper and draw from experiences posted here. Ofcourse they have more internal knowledge that they can leverage, but we also tend to a bit more geeky about it.

We have had people have reboot issues that have been traced down to a power issue, we have had reboot issues traced down to heat related problems, we have also had spontaneous reboots tied to timer configuration. Though they did not mention any of these they are root causes to spontaneous rebooting based on the reports posted here.

Bottom line... you are the closest to the problem and the best position to troubleshoot. All we can do is offer some suggestions. Lets see how the next box fairs and please post back the results. I do hope it stabilizes.


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## fmcomputer (Oct 14, 2006)

As a person that designs and builds custom computers, it is a known fact that the newer computers and dvr's require good clean power. Do yourself a favor and purchase a good ups system ( battery backup ). Do not plug it into plug strip. Make sure you plug it directly into the wall outlet. Also check posts for solvng heat problems.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

If DVRs are that sensitive then there should be many failures during the summer months because power companies reduce their voltages during high usage times. This has been happening since the late 1970's. I know this because I worked for a major utility company for 22 years. You would think that the designers of DVRs would have figured this into their design.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

BNUMM said:


> Power companies reduce their voltages during high usage times.


No they don't. It could be that the voltage is down in a neighborhood because of the load in the area. The power companies distribution system in many areas is outdated and that may lead to reduced voltage but the power companies MUST keep their voltage to homes and businesses within fairly tight limits (there is a national standard but power companies are state regulated and some states have tighter specs).

The solution for anyone that has power sages is a UPS. DVRs are quite sensitive to power problems and a UPS is (to me) a worthwhile investment.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

In some sever situations power companies have been known to reduce voltages resulting in a "brown out".


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

Bill R said:


> No they don't. It could be that the voltage is down in a neighborhood because of the load in the area....


This is simply not correct. Power companies in the East routinely have "Brown Outs" or Rolling Brown Outs during peak usage periods - generally during the summer.

This past summer they sometimes were announced in advance on the Local (DC) TV News.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

You can deny it all you want but Power companies do have brown outs every summer. I worked in the power plants and every summer we reduced the voltage when the load was more than could be handled. Companies are required not to go below a minimum but that minimum is not 120 volts. The last I knew the minimum was 109 volts. I am not sure if the minimum applies during brown outs.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

Received a 722 today, but it was damaged in shipment. Box was wrinkled up and a hole in it. Looked like it was dropped a few feet on corner onto something pointy. Left door of receiver was broken off. First instruction says "Always handle the DVR receiver carefully. Avoid excessive shock and vibration at all times, as this can damage the hard drive". We elected just to send this unit back. We have one with bad hard drive, don't need another. Another 722 on the way, this one on the way back. Will check back in when other next receiver received.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

Well, we have had a working 722 for almost 3 days now. I don't want to say that too loud. We are getting highly cautious about any form of optimism. We'll keep our fingers crossed. When all logic fails, cross your fingers. I think Dish is doing a bit of finger crossing right now, since they know of the problem, but haven't fixed it yet.

btw, when you do a bit of research on this forum, you find a significant number of people who have had the same problem we have had-several 622's (or 722's) in a series with problems. And, Dish is aware of this also. Like, how could they not be. I'm not really complaining about Dish. Being a former electronics designer, I have had dome pretty difficult problems to solve. But, I sure wish/hope this last receiver works for us. And, Dish has finds a solution.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Keep us posted bonipie.... Being following this one.. Don't know what to make of it at this point but only time will tell if the 722 holds up... Given the history of your issue, I have my doubts but I will keep my fingers crossed also.


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## mattfast1 (Mar 26, 2008)

My 2¢... our testing department should never mark certain fail codes as "No Problem Found (NPF)". These fail codes: Power Failure. Hard Drive Failure. Hard Drive Error Message. Software No Download. Possible a few others.

However, if they did that, unscrupulous TSRs would be coding ALL their RAs that way - that way, they'd never get an NPF, lowering their stack ranking (and incentive pay).

Seriously, even if they can't get the dreaded error 311 to pop up on the screen when it comes back to the warehouse, that doesn't mean the hard drive DOESN'T have a problem they need to fix.

Of course, testing can't seem to get things right sometimes. I've seen instances where a 510 shipped out with all the previous customer's timers still set. I've seen the locks enabled on the receiver from when they tested those (BTW, testing lock code is last 4 of R00 #). I've even seen it where they don't even bother to test it, or even remove it from the previous customer's account (so now the previous customer has been charged for a receiver they returned and has already been sent back out).

One case, from just a few days ago: A lady calls me who's just replaced her 625. We do the check switch test and initial software download (since the majority of customers can't seem to read the instructional letter beyond step 8...), then it resets and pops up... Error 311. Ok, so while we're waiting for authorization, I check the receiver's history to find it was RA'd from the last customer's account for... wait for it... Error 311. Maybe RAing it twice for the same problem will get them to replace the HD?


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

Well, Matt, sure seems that we are receiving recirculating receivers from the (cess)pool of refirb receivers. We are hoping that the 6th is the charm. 5 days and counting-going for a new record. Our last receiver (not counting the one injured on delivery) had the dreaded rebooting, and sometimes on reboot (if it finally gave us programming) it would crash the hard drive. We were just happy for a picture at that point. Later, the hard drive would miraculously recover, and the process would start over.

Actually, we had an electronics company years ago. If a customer reported a problem, and sent in the unit, if it worked, we just set it aside and ran it until it failed-and, it always failed. Sometimes, you need patience. I sure hope Dish finds the problem-I'm sure they will, eventually. I think the hard drive was maybe isolated problem, but the rebooting is a BIG problem, and reading the posts, lots of people have the same problem.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

My 622 has been rebooting for no apparent reason. On Monday (3/24/08), I came home and turned it on and it rebooted. Then yesterday I turned it on and it rebooted again. The technical support person just told me to plug it into the wall and not use a surge protector. I don't think that will solve it but I'm going to try. I think it has to do with the latest software.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

Well, Guys, bad news. Our 722 (not new when we got it) started rebooting today, and we haven't had tv since. We are so disappointed that there seems to be no way to resolve these problems. This one worked a bit over a month. 7 units. Would be good to get a new unit (don't know if such an animal even exists), so we know we aren't just experiencing problems with a unit that has already failed.

Coming from an electronics design background, I understand problems. But, those problems are usually solved in short order. I just don't understand that a solution has not been found after all this time. If you read the threads on this forum, there are more and more people having the same problem. Really reading the threads, there seem to be a few HD issues, a couple HDMI issues, but almost all of the actual problems are the 622/722 rebooting issues. They may be perceived as something else, or not recognized as the rebooting issue, but it turns out (if you don't count the HD and HDMI problems), it is the rebooting issue. This is really a problem, and I appreciate that there are a lot of people out there that have never had a problem, there are more and more of us who have had this problem-and, most/many of us have had it in multiple receivers.

So, as I rant along, since I have no tv right now, just wanted to update you.


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> Well, Guys, bad news. Our 722 (not new when we got it) started rebooting today, and we haven't had tv since. We are so disappointed that there seems to be no way to resolve these problems. This one worked a bit over a month. 7 units. Would be good to get a new unit (don't know if such an animal even exists), so we know we aren't just experiencing problems with a unit that has already failed.


at this point i would get a tech back out there. yes, there are some issues with the 622 and 722 having reboot issues, but 7 in a row...sounds like a power supply issue, or an issue with the cabling or the grounding of the dish itself to me.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

You seem to believe there is one single issue that can make the receiver reboot but this is certainly not the case. You will always hear of some receivers that are rebooting. That's what they do when any of several hundred things go wrong. They are computers made up of many different hardware and software components. There is no single issue that Dish has to "find" to correct all reboots.

As puckwithahalo says, you are having some environmental issue or you have very bad luck. Everyone sees a reboot once in a while but it seems you are seeing one or many different problems with your hardware.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

The other thing to consider that keeps going through my head is that know this has crossed both the 622 and 722 lines and if I recall the recent pattern matches a previous pattern. Runs fine for a while then starts rebooting. I think that is the key why is it happening

As to correlating it to other reports, I agree with ChuckA. There are a huge amount of reasons for spontaneous reboots ranging from....

1) Production defect. Number of 622s at one time were released with a defect that caused boxes to spontaneously reboot. There are theories around here that these boxes are still in the stream and you do have a possibility of getting one when you do a box swap. 

2) External factors - Grounding, heat, quality of electricity, something wrong with the wiring etc. These of course are hard to track down, but something that anyone having issues should look into. 

3) Use Case driven - Perhaps someone does something just a bit different than others in how they use the box that causes the reboot. This could include something on a particular channels feed that is cause the box to throw up a and only certain people spend a lot of time on that particular channel. 

There are definitely some other reports and actually some that do sound familiar. Ebaltz I believe has started to experience rebooting on his box after a period of time. Are they the same thing?... Hard to say without personally experiencing both, however, it is very odd software wise for something to run for weeks and then start rebooting. Heck same thing goes for hardware if you factor in multiple times without some unknown root cause effecting the hardware in question. 

So the question is.. what is that root cause. I have said this before.. I personally at this point would not lump all these experiences... They feel to different to me though some do have a common feel to them. I know a lot of people ran into spontaneous rebooting right after L4.49 but after getting the update that seems to be smoothed out. 

To get a better feel for this and possibility find some commonalities, I think doing a reset and capturing people that are experience this in a new thread makes a lot of sense. I will create one later today with some questions that hopefully will draw out some possible commonality that might help the E* engineering team get a better understanding as to what our users are experiencing.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

I am all for figuring it out. Very frustrating. So far my 722 has worked fine.

The point for me is that nothing changed in my house as far as the circumstances or wiring or anything.

First box that experienced the issue had worked flawlessly, and I mean flawlessly for well over 6 months, maybe even a year. No reboots at all, no issues. Then two weeks after L4.49 it rebooted once, then the next day 4 or 5 times and after 3 or 4 days was in the non-stop loop.

Next box, worked fine for two weeks. Then just for no reason, nothing happening, just watching 1 TV show, not OTA, started a reboot, and never recovered, just kept rebooting for days, only worked once for about 40 minutes on the third day then right back to reboot loop.

The 722 has been going about a week and a half now, so fingers are crossed. 

All environmental factors are exactly the same. The units are in open stands, with continuous airflow around them and avg. about 95° so its not a heat related thing. And again no other factors have changed. It's not related to recording something or a lot of things at once, do that that all the time and that's never been the issue that started it. Can happen even when the unit is "off". Its pretty baffling. My best guess is something associated with L4.49 and perhaps a physical defect in the harddrive or some other physical component.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Excellent post Ebaltz... 

This is the type of posts I want to get into the other thread I will create a thread later today and move your experiences into it.

Will be really interesting to see if your 722 does not walk the same path. It appears from your experience that it started to exhibit the behavior post L4.49. I am not sure if that is the same experience that bonpie has..


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## puckwithahalo (Sep 3, 2007)

> The point for me is that nothing changed in my house as far as the circumstances or wiring or anything.


nothing that you KNOW has changed. That doesn't mean that a grounding block couldn't have gone bad, or that a circuit somewhere developed a short in it, or any number of other things. I'm not saying that anything did change, just that making the assumption that nothing changed isn't a good one to make. Just a thought to bear in mind.

*crosses fingers for ebaltz's 722's continued good health*


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

puckwithahalo said:


> nothing that you KNOW has changed. That doesn't mean that a grounding block couldn't have gone bad, or that a circuit somewhere developed a short in it, or any number of other things. I'm not saying that anything did change, just that making the assumption that nothing changed isn't a good one to make. Just a thought to bear in mind.
> 
> *crosses fingers for ebaltz's 722's continued good health*


If it had gone bad, it would stay bad. However when something works fine then doesn't and then does again, its not me, its something in the machine.


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

We have 722 on the way-we were going to go with 211, but with DVR Advantage, there is no DVR charge, so fees would be the same. And, tech sort of hemmed and hawed when we asked how problem free the 211 is. 

Lots said about power. I guess the feeling is that with solar power, 'anything' can happen. This is really the most reliable power setup I have ever experienced. Literally, everytime we 'power up', we are checking power available. We know how much power each appliance draws, in what useage mode. We know the wave form of each of our inverters, and which appliance likes which waveform. You do not take your power lightly while living comfortably using solar power. Retiring from engineering, we know how to setup the power, how to test it, etc. We have the equipment to test power: meters, scopes, spectrum analyzer, etc. We don't have 'brown outs' because we are in control of our own system and don't abuse it (and, yes, test it constantly). We don't have surges or spikes for the same reason. Our power for the whole house is from regulated sources. We do not have any problems with other appliances or electronics. We had Dish since 1998 with no problems. We had our first 622 for 6 months before the first problems. We are totally frustrated with this issue and have racked our brains and lost sleep trying to figure what the problem is and if it is caused by us. We have gotten up at 3am (when we hear the receiver rebooting in the middle of the night) trying to figure it out. I would be like others and question our setup, but it is really a simple setup in a quite regulated environment. It is a setup that has worked for years. We actually know what we are doing, and we don't have to contend with many of the electrical 'irregularities' that you often have to living in today's complex world. We have a daily renewable electrical supply with a 24/7 battery backup. And, when those batteries are low (12.26v under load-you thought I didn't know), everything gets turned off 'til the sun comes up. And, yes, we are grounded. And, we don't schedule much to record. Why would we? We keep loosing our recordings.

Sorry, I get wordy when I don't have TV.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

ebaltz said:


> If it had gone bad, it would stay bad. However when something works fine then doesn't and then does again, its not me, its something in the machine.


Or it could be moisture in your grounding block causing a short circuit or anywhere else. Moisture does dry out from time to time. That would cause intermittent problems. Just exploring the possibilities.


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

fmcomputer said:


> Do yourself a favor and purchase a good ups system ( battery backup ). Do not plug it into plug strip. Make sure you plug it directly into the wall outlet. Also check posts for solvng heat problems.


I would go beyond that. As a test, get off the grid for a few weeks until you prove it's power related or not.

Get yourself a large lead acid battery like a Sears Die Hard and a 12 Volt inverter.

Every night, completely disconnect and recharge the battery.

If your receivers still misbehave then your problem is not power related.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

They are not on the grid. They said they have regulators and have checked the power.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

bonipie said:


> We know how much power each appliance draws, in what useage mode. We know the wave form of each of our inverters, and which appliance likes which waveform.


It could be that the 622/722 does not "like" the waveform you are feeding it. Have you tried to put it on other inverters?


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## scoobyxj (Apr 15, 2008)

Something to remember is the 622 & 722 are Dish Pro+ receivers. If your old receiver was a only a Dish Pro it could live quite happily on substandard cable. DPP equipment needs Rg-6 rated to 3GHz (most is not rated to 3GHz). It is quite possible that is your problem. Also don't forget any barrel connectors, and ground blocks need to be 3GHz rated. My father was once having a problem with a 301 that kept going stupid. *E kept sending him replacements.I think it was after the third, or fourth one they finely sent a tech to check over the system. It turned out to be a faulty DP34 switch when it seemed it was receiver problem.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

bonipie said:


> We have 722 on the way-we were going to go with 211, but with DVR Advantage, there is no DVR charge, so fees would be the same. And, tech sort of hemmed and hawed when we asked how problem free the 211 is.
> 
> Lots said about power. I guess the feeling is that with solar power, 'anything' can happen. This is really the most reliable power setup I have ever experienced. Literally, everytime we 'power up', we are checking power available. We know how much power each appliance draws, in what useage mode. We know the wave form of each of our inverters, and which appliance likes which waveform. You do not take your power lightly while living comfortably using solar power. Retiring from engineering, we know how to setup the power, how to test it, etc. We have the equipment to test power: meters, scopes, spectrum analyzer, etc. We don't have 'brown outs' because we are in control of our own system and don't abuse it (and, yes, test it constantly). We don't have surges or spikes for the same reason. Our power for the whole house is from regulated sources. We do not have any problems with other appliances or electronics. We had Dish since 1998 with no problems. We had our first 622 for 6 months before the first problems. We are totally frustrated with this issue and have racked our brains and lost sleep trying to figure what the problem is and if it is caused by us. We have gotten up at 3am (when we hear the receiver rebooting in the middle of the night) trying to figure it out. I would be like others and question our setup, but it is really a simple setup in a quite regulated environment. It is a setup that has worked for years. We actually know what we are doing, and we don't have to contend with many of the electrical 'irregularities' that you often have to living in today's complex world. We have a daily renewable electrical supply with a 24/7 battery backup. And, when those batteries are low (12.26v under load-you thought I didn't know), everything gets turned off 'til the sun comes up. And, yes, we are grounded. And, we don't schedule much to record. Why would we? We keep loosing our recordings.
> 
> Sorry, I get wordy when I don't have TV.


Others have mentioned dirty power. I guess they mean DC slipping thru into the AC. But I'm going to suggest something completely different. Have you checked to see that the inverter is keeping the frequency at 6o HZ? If it is varying to below 6o it could be the culprit. Is it possible that it is closer to 50 Hz like Europe uses than to 60 which we use. Maybe the inverter is shifting the freq with the load. So see what is going on with the freq and let us know.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Here's the kind of thing that can happen.

Our ISP is Comcast. Three weeks before Christmas we started losing our connection just after dusk. After Comcast replacing my modem, me disconnecting all my Christmas decorations, and following similar complaints from neighbors, despite the fact that it wasn't affecting TV a Comcast crew started testing their system segment by segment. We are in a rural area with lots of lines heading off in different directions so this is time consuming and they had to pull off because of storm damage in nearby communities.

The second weekend after Christmas the problem stopped. They don't know why. The best guess is someone had some electronic decorations on a timer that sent some unknown intermittent pulse signal through their house into the Comcast system that disconnected everyone behind some piece of Comcast equipment. It's likely that the problem will start up again next Christmas season.

Who knows what actually is affecting some particular location. In another rural home that was self-contained for power, I had to filter all equipment to try to prevent "interference" going back into the system. Here, where I have that "reliable and regulated" power grid, PG&E voltage varies significantly at times and it is obvious they adjust it during those California summers of rolling blackouts and not so rolling brownouts. (Yes, I monitor it.) Everything electronic we own is behind relatively expensive UPS's but that doesn't prevent my occasional panic during some wild power fluctuations in storms. Luckily my 8-month-old 722 hasn't done anything odd that I couldn't explain to myself. But I really believe it is luck....


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## bonipie (Feb 9, 2006)

New (to us) 722 up and running since Monday.

We do have several inverters. Two primary, one a true sine wave. We have no difference between the sine wave and modified sinewave as far as receivers are concerned. When the receiver is working, it works on the sine wave or modified sine wave. When the receiver is not working, it will not work on either inverter or generator power or shore power. We have some items that will not work as well as we like on the modified sine wave-hp all in one printer, computerized sewing machine, ac electric razor, some of our fans. Those items are on the sine wave inverter, and often the receiver is also on the sine wave inverter when we are troubleshooting. Usually, when the tv and receiver are on, there isn't much chance of 'electrical interaction' between other items on same circuit. We have everything in mh unplugged (not just turned off) that we are not using. So, usually tv and receiver and our computer (not printer and other periferials unless we need them at the time) are the only things on the circuit. Dish techs never question power related issues, installation is a simple 1 tv/receiver setup, provided cable was used for installation, tech says heat is not really an issue (and we do what we can to keep heat down), no switch is used. Guess we are just lucky.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

TulsaOK said:


> Or it could be moisture in your grounding block causing a short circuit or anywhere else. Moisture does dry out from time to time. That would cause intermittent problems. Just exploring the possibilities.


well I live in PHoenix, so moisture isn't a problem. Hasn't rained here in 4 months. 

From all I have read, Dish acknowledges there is a problem with the software and the machines, but they don't know what it is/can't figure out the connection to the issue.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

scoobyxj said:


> Something to remember is the 622 & 722 are Dish Pro+ receivers. If your old receiver was a only a Dish Pro it could live quite happily on substandard cable. DPP equipment needs Rg-6 rated to 3GHz (most is not rated to 3GHz). It is quite possible that is your problem. Also don't forget any barrel connectors, and ground blocks need to be 3GHz rated. My father was once having a problem with a 301 that kept going stupid. *E kept sending him replacements.I think it was after the third, or fourth one they finely sent a tech to check over the system. It turned out to be a faulty DP34 switch when it seemed it was receiver problem.


I don't mean to sound authoratative here but in my experience (recently retired broadcast engr) there is really no such thing as RG-6 coaxial cable that is "rated" to 3 ghz unless it has actually been sweep-tested and comes with a certificate attached to the spool attesting to this. What there is, however, is some RG-6 coax around that has been marked/labelled as 3,000 Mhz (3 Ghz) cable, ostensibly for marketing purposes. That having been said, there is good coax and there is bad. At a frequency of 3 Ghz all RG6 (both good and bad) is going to exhibit very similar (if not identical) signal propagation and loss (attenuation) characteristics unless the cable is in some way physically damaged. RG6 Quad Shield cable is very good for use in cable TV systems where ingress radiation (ghosting) is a problem and is considered by some as a more ruggedized version of RG6 (it is after all larger), but otherwise there is no use or requirement for it in DBS (satellite) distribution systems.

The coax coming off the spool in the E* service van is very likely to be better quality than what you'll find at your local Radios Hack store and certainly a properly installed connector (including snugging down the threads) has more to do with the quality and dependability of your installation than the quality of the RG6. To that extent I have been somewhat appalled at the lack of attention to detail in this facet of installation in our own home. Connectors were properly cut-on to the cable but not a single one was more than finger snug and none of these guys have ever heard of using a little silicone grease on the threads; God forbid anyone think far enough ahead to proactively do something to thwart corrosion. Believe it or not there are actual torque specifications (30 inch-pounds) though of course you cannot do that directly onto the back of the receiver else you'll damage it. Still there's no excuse for loose connectors at the LNBF or diplexors, matrix switches, etc. If you can unscrew it with your fingers, then it was loose. A tight connector is a happy connector and a happy connector often begets a happy customer.

All in all, in reviewing this thread from its beginning I think what we see here indicates to me more of a component failure (and quality control) issue than a software one. I myself am on my 3rd VIP722 since last December (5 months ago). My current one was fine for the first month or so, but recently has begun to completely lose the output signal to the TV, on all outputs (Component, HDMI, 2nd room, etc). No, the IRD itself isn't rebooting spontaneously, the output signal to the display device(s) is dropping out (the TV indicates a loss of input). You can wait 5 minutes or so and it might come back or you can force-reboot it and also wait 5 minutes and it will come back. In the last week we've had to reboot 5 or 6 times.

This brings us full circle back to the original poster's original question. Does E* actually have a receiver that works dependably?


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Heat. Late last summer when I got my 722, I watched it carefully. While the numbers indicated it was running quite warm, it was not out of bounds and the numbers are still within bounds. But...

Last summer and fall I rarely heard the fan running when the 722 wasn't "On" which means it was in standby mode.

Now we are having a bit of a "heat wave" meaning mid 80's max in the theater room. During late afternoon yesterday the fan was running at high speed and the top of the 722 was _extremely_ hot, too hot to leave my hand on it. So in a panic, because it would soon actually start recording something, I put a couple of cool gel packs on top, which cooled it down some but not the point the fan stopped running on high speed before it started recording.

This morning when the room was in the low 60's the fan was running on low speed while the 722 had been in "standby" for over 6 hours.

What I know from years of building my own computers is that the fans running aren't an necessarily an indication of a problem, but in standby mode, fans running and a box too hot to keep your hand on it is an indication of a design problem. A "standby mode" that doesn't let the ViP receivers run cool in an 85 degree environment even with the fans on is not a minor issue.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Standby mode on the VIP series is nothing more then running the screen saver. Some members here have put watt meters on the AC line and the amp draw while in standby is the same as when "on".


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