# Verizon has 70 premium channels in HD, why don't we?



## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

Verizon FiOS has every single premium movie that exists in HD, 70 of them! every spinoff, every west coast feed, everything! Why can't DirecTV match that? for what they charge for them we should have at least 80! enough of the stupid sports packages! does anyone actually subscribe to Cricket Ticket? give me more movies! get rid of pay per view movies on regular channels too! total waste of bandwidth! If this keeps up I'll switch to FiOS if they ever get here.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Agreed. I beleive it is the same price for one HBO HD channel as it is for a dozen or so?


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

why dont they have nfl sunday ticket ?


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

because football sucks. its 300 bucks a season! who can afford that in this economy? if you want to watch a certain team, save yourself the money and move to their market. i'd rather watch HD movies 24 hours a day than be able to watch football for 6 hours a day for 17 days a year. theres no comparison!


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Contracts


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

machavez00 said:


> Contracts


good in depth explanation! you must be a business law professor!


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

How many reruns on those 70 channels, there is a point where you reach a limit to new mavies.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

if i haven't seen it its not a rerun to me. how many movies are in existance in the world? millions? billions? how many NFL teams are there? 32? how many games a year per team? 16? yeah thats a real value.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

At least with DIRECTV I can watch and record all the HD channels at one time... No limits of 2 or 4 HD streams delivered... 

Oh and I won't see FIOS here for a very, very long time. So I could switch to comcast (pay more, much much more, for less) switch to dish and give up NFL and pay about the same or more (10 DVRs add up...), or go entirely netflix and hulu. Ugh...

So while I'm free to move, why in the heck would I ever want to?


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

10 DVR's? do you own a sports bar or are you one of those people on Cribs who has an HDTV in the bathroom?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Just my home, three of us. (And lots of visiting grandkids.) 

And I'm still looking for the right deal for the bathroom TV. It will happen. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

TomCat4680 said:


> because football sucks.


For your team it does.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

yes they do suck but im still going to watch them. but wait i cant on Sunday Ticket because of the stupid NFL blackout policy thats based purely on greed and nothing else. its cheaper just to go to the game.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

bidger said:


> For your team it does.


Gotta love it


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I'd consider moving away from all my grandkids and great grandkids to be closer to watching the Packers for free... but then I'd still have to pay $1,200 a year to see the kids twice a year instead of any day of the week...


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> good in depth explanation! you must be a business law professor!


BANDWIDTH

Same answer different fourm :lol:


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

ya exactly why have something for 6 hours a week 17 days a year instead of 24/7/365, no blackouts no regional restrictions, no extra fees, etc. Not that I would, but I could move to NYC and get 4 RSN's and 10 teams instead of the 1 RSN and 4 teams here but I'd rather see movies (and my family too).


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> yes they do suck but im still going to watch them. but wait i cant on Sunday Ticket because of the stupid NFL blackout policy thats based purely on greed and nothing else. its cheaper just to go to the game.


You can get them on the REDZONE

As often as the other Team scores the are on all the time,


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

i can see the other team's highlights on ESPN for free though. i want to see the entire game live in real time.


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> *because football sucks*. its 300 bucks a season! who can afford that in this economy? if you want to watch a certain team, save yourself the money and move to their market. i'd rather watch HD movies 24 hours a day than be able to watch football for 6 hours a day for 17 days a year. theres no comparison!


Fotball only sucks for fans of an 0-16 team....and when your team has never won a SB.:lol:


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

So, you can't get Fios, but your mad at what they have? Also, not every Fios market offers those 70 HD premiums. Why care about stuff you can't have?


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## davidatl14 (Mar 24, 2006)

I applaud DirecTV for not wasting bandwidth on countless Premiums.


The channels that show movies that have already been shown in a theater, released on DVD and shown on the current channels ad nauseaum. PASS, can't think of a worse utilization of bandwidth. 

What's that you say you've only seen Fletch 83 times and you're dying for that 84th viewing.:lol:

Serious Movie buffs(ones that scream for HBO 8 and can't seem to live without it) need to be elsewhere with their TV providers.

Don't give any blather either about Contracts or ETF's,if it's that important to you just make the switch today.

Don't make countless empty threats, why wait for FIOS if it's not available, call DISH today and FIOS if they ever make it into your market.

We will all feel better the sooner it can be done.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

WestDC said:


> BANDWIDTH
> 
> Same answer different fourm :lol:


haha you're so funny (and unhelpful)

i can do it too

bandwidth schmandwidth. theres plenty of room for infomercials. Comcast doesn't even have as many infomercial channels as D* and thats really saying something!


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> haha you're so funny (and unhelpful)
> 
> i can do it too
> 
> bandwidth schmandwidth. theres plenty of room for infomercials. Comcast doesn't even have as many infomercial channels as D* and thats really saying something!


Those informercial channels reduce your monthly cost. D* gets lower pricing or credits for providing those channels. Why do you think they're included in every package?

Why doesn't D* carry more? Because they don't feel the need to based on their consumers plus the ammount of money it would cost to carry those additional channels. There's already a thread started about more premium content and HD channels. It's been discussed to death. The bottom line is D* will add them when they feel it's going to be a benefit to them as a company. Also east and west coast feeds are becoming a waste of space. That's what DVR's are for. If you would like more premium content write them a letter saying so. However I'm willing to bet if they had an option for people to sub to those channels for an extra cost most would not and say they were ok with what they had.

Also if you're solution for people living outside of an NFL market is to just move why don't you just move into an area with FIOS wouldn't that be just as easy? I heard VA is a nice place to live.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

ya i started those threads and the problem still exists and i will complain about it until its fixed. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. and i like west feeds because i tape alot of stuff and since we can only record 2 shows at once the west feeds give me a chance to tape it at a later time and not overlap the other 2 shows being recorded, especially when it comes to shows which never re-air like Leno and Conan.


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> Verizon FiOS has every single premium movie that exists in HD, 70 of them! every spinoff, every west coast feed, everything! Why can't DirecTV match that?


You asked a question and received at least two credible and logical responses, "contracts" and "bandwidth", yet you choose to ridicule the answers. Then why ask the question??


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Get the HD Extra pack, 3 of the best movie channels IMO are in it making it well worth the extra few bucks.

MGMHD, Universal HD, HDNet Movies are all awesome.


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## davidatl14 (Mar 24, 2006)

DirecTV with it's actions and choices has made it abundantly clear the Hard-Core movie buff has very little value in their business plans, probably a little less value than the proverbial squeaky wheel.

The enthusiasm and countless threads by the said squeaky wheels would be greatly appreciated by Sisyphus(Greek mythology) though.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> ya i started those threads and the problem still exists and i will complain about it until its fixed. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. and i like west feeds because i tape alot of stuff and since we can only record 2 shows at once the west feeds give me a chance to tape it at a later time and not overlap the other 2 shows being recorded, especially when it comes to shows which never re-air like Leno and Conan.


I'm willing to bet that the $4.99 for a second dvr would be cheaper then the price increases for adding all of those channels.

Also it appears lately that squeaky wheels don't get greased they get replaced.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

Shades228 said:


> Those informercial channels reduce your monthly cost. D* gets lower pricing or credits for providing those channels. Why do you think they're included in every package?
> 
> Why doesn't D* carry more? Because they don't feel the need to based on their consumers plus the ammount of money it would cost to carry those additional channels. There's already a thread started about more premium content and HD channels. It's been discussed to death. The bottom line is D* will add them when they feel it's going to be a benefit to them as a company. Also east and west coast feeds are becoming a waste of space. That's what DVR's are for. If you would like more premium content write them a letter saying so. However I'm willing to bet if they had an option for people to sub to those channels for an extra cost most would not and say they were ok with what they had.
> 
> Also if you're solution for people living outside of an NFL market is to just move why don't you just move into an area with FIOS wouldn't that be just as easy? I heard VA is a nice place to live.


yes but does anyone watch Billy Blanks? does anyone own a snuggie? does anyone record infomercials and watch them later because they have to work 3rd shift?

im not moving because like the 10 tv owner said family is more important than sports (or movies)


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## davidatl14 (Mar 24, 2006)

Grentz said:


> Get the HD Extra pack, 3 of the best movie channels IMO are in it making it well worth the extra few bucks.
> 
> MGMHD, Universal HD, HDNet Movies are all awesome.


Agree 100%.

Thos type of stations would be much preferred to just adding HBO 8, Cinemax 7, Showtime West 4.5.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

Grentz said:


> Get the HD Extra pack, 3 of the best movie channels IMO are in it making it well worth the extra few bucks.
> 
> MGMHD, Universal HD, HDNet Movies are all awesome.


ya i got that package. good stuff. Universal shows NBC crap too with commercials so i wouldnt really consider it a premium movie channel. TCM HD, IFC HD and Sundance HD would be nice though.


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## BetterThanMost (Sep 24, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> does anyone own a snuggie?


Apparently a lot of folks do own snuggies as they are on a month long backlog of orders.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_11530092?nclick_check=1


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

BetterThanMost said:


> Apparently a lot of folks do own snuggies as they are on a month long backlog of orders.
> 
> http://www.twincities.com/ci_11530092?nclick_check=1


why not just goto the big and tall store and get a 10XL shirt? or put your robe on backwards?


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## davidatl14 (Mar 24, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> why not just goto the big and tall store and get a 10XL shirt? or put your robe on backwards?


Or Limit yourself to only 50 viewings of Fletch, Bad Boys or Rocky 4?:lol:


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

ive never seen any of those movies, when are they on? the combined price of HBO 9 HD, Cinemax 10 HD, Starz 11 HD, Showtime 12 HD and Encore 13 HD would be a hell of alot cheaper than buying them on Blue-Ray.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> At least with DIRECTV I can watch and record all the HD channels at one time... No limits of 2 or 4 HD streams delivered...


Not an issue with Verizon... perhaps with U-Verse? /steve


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## Peapod (Oct 14, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> its cheaper just to go to the game.


A quick check of Lions ticket prices from this season seems to imply that the cheapest season tickets available would have been $400 (which would include 2 preseason games, $320 just including regular season games). This does not include the cost of parking, or any money spent on concessions.

Exactly how is that cheaper?


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> ya i got that package. good stuff. Universal shows NBC crap too with commercials so i wouldnt really consider it a premium movie channel. TCM HD, IFC HD and Sundance HD would be nice though.


True, Universal can be good and then frustrating at other times. The MGMHD and HDNet Movies are great though.

I wish there could be more channels like that, but they tend to take a company with deep pockets to fund them I think. The lack of commercials all the time, better content, great picture quality, and constant new material is awesome...but not the most friendly for a channel trying to make money like most are.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Steve said:


> Not an issue with Verizon... perhaps with U-Verse? /steve


Since I can't get any of them, nor really interested, I lose track of who has what limit (and in which locations...) I thought most of them have limits on number of actual HD streams delivered simultaneously.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Since I can't get any of them, nor really interested, I lose track of who has what limit (and in which locations...) I thought most of them have limits on number of actual HD streams delivered simultaneously.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Ya, Verizon is FTTH where UVerse is FTTN (Home vs. Neighborhood Fiber). Thus Verizon has much more bandwidth to use at peoples homes in comparison to UVerse which cuts it way down by using non-fiber for the last link.

Does get confusing to keep track of though, especially when none are available to you! (heck, I cannot even get cable  )


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## GregLee (Dec 28, 2005)

cariera said:


> You asked a question and received at least two credible and logical responses, "contracts" and "bandwidth", yet you choose to ridicule the answers. Then why ask the question??


Just because a question can have stupid answers doesn't mean it wasn't worth asking.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> Verizon FiOS has every single premium movie that exists in HD, 70 of them! every spinoff, every west coast feed, everything! Why can't DirecTV match that? for what they charge for them we should have at least 80! enough of the stupid sports packages! does anyone actually subscribe to Cricket Ticket? give me more movies! get rid of pay per view movies on regular channels too! total waste of bandwidth! If this keeps up I'll switch to FiOS if they ever get here.


Sorry I have to laugh. A Lions fan mad at the sports packages. Maybe if the Lions were winning would you be a little happier?


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

dont need NFL Sunday Ticket cuz im in MI and I dont give a damn about out of market teams. if it carried locally blacked out games itd be different. at least road games aren't blacked out. theres always next year for the Lions. they got a whole new coaching staff, the old one all got fired.

i guess i shouldnt have attacked NFLST on Super Bowl Sunday...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

GregLee said:


> Just because a question can have stupid answers doesn't mean it wasn't worth asking.


Um... the point was the answers were credible and were not stupid. They might have been obvious answers to some, but that still doesn't make them stupid.

So please be kind...


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Um... the point was the answers were credible and were not stupid. They might have been obvious answers to some, but that still doesn't make them stupid.
> 
> So please be kind...


Thanks, Tom.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

(pretending to care about teams that aren't the Lions):

how bout them Steelers?


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## Bushwacr (Oct 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> (pretending to care about teams that aren't the Lions):
> 
> how bout them Steelers?


Wrong team for this thread guy. I think the Mod with the house full of equipment on you here is a Green Bay fan.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

I was pretending, I dont want to discuss the Super Bowl, the Steelers, the great "who's America's team: Steelers or Cowboys" debate, NFLST, or anything football related. football season is over, lets discuss something else.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Wait a sec... I only count 43 Premium movie channels, not 70... whats up wit dat?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Grentz said:


> Ya, Verizon is FTTH where UVerse is FTTN (Home vs. Neighborhood Fiber). Thus Verizon has much more bandwidth to use at peoples homes in comparison to UVerse which cuts it way down by using non-fiber for the last link.


Verizon's network is totally different from U-verse. Verizon uses a broadcast system, where every channel is being delivered to everyone, all the time. So there are no restrictions on the number of streams, because there are no streams to being with. U-verse, on the other hand, uses IPTV for everything, so each channel being viewed or recorded in your house is being streamed to you and taking up bandwidth. So they have to limit you.


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## SPECIES11703 (Oct 10, 2004)

CORRECTION. It's 45 premium movie channels in HD not 80. I have FiOS and counted the HBO's, Showtime etc. Though the number of premiums in SD is 75.



TomCat4680 said:


> Verizon FiOS has every single premium movie that exists in HD, 70 of them! every spinoff, every west coast feed, everything! Why can't DirecTV match that? for what they charge for them we should have at least 80! enough of the stupid sports packages! does anyone actually subscribe to Cricket Ticket? give me more movies! get rid of pay per view movies on regular channels too! total waste of bandwidth! If this keeps up I'll switch to FiOS if they ever get here.


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> *because football sucks*. its 300 bucks a season! who can afford that in this economy? if you want to watch a certain team, save yourself the money and move to their market. i'd rather watch HD movies 24 hours a day than be able to watch football for 6 hours a day for 17 days a year. theres no comparison!


You just lost what little credibility you had.


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## Prince Oz (Jan 15, 2009)

TomCat4680 said:


> Verizon FiOS has every single premium movie that exists in HD, 70 of them! every spinoff, every west coast feed, everything! Why can't DirecTV match that? for what they charge for them we should have at least 80! enough of the stupid sports packages! does anyone actually subscribe to Cricket Ticket? give me more movies! get rid of pay per view movies on regular channels too! total waste of bandwidth! If this keeps up I'll switch to FiOS if they ever get here.


I'm glad they don't. Most of the movies that they all show suck and the good ones I probably have on DVD. I will take a good MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL, or any NCAA football and basketball game anyday. They have enough HD movie movie channels. The channels in HD now are the ones that show new movies from time to time. The others can stay SD since they basicly show the same movies over and over. Besides, how many would really watch the love movie channel if it was HD:nono2:.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Prince Oz said:


> I'm glad they don't. Most of the movies that they all show suck and the good ones I probably have on DVD. I will take a good MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL, or any NCAA football and basketball game anyday. They have enough HD movie movie channels. The channels in HD now are the ones that show new movies from time to time. The others can stay SD since they basicly show the same movies over and over. Besides, how many would really watch the love movie channel if it was HD:nono2:.


As I would not go that far, I kind of agree, I would much rather have as many Nationals in HD as D* can provide. If I want to watch a movie, I just run down to Best Buy and buy it, if it's an older one, the local library will have it.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> At least with DIRECTV I can watch and record all the HD channels at one time... No limits of 2 or 4 HD streams delivered...


Ugh... not this one again. FiOS is NOT limited to 2 or 4 HD streams. I can have (currently) up to 7 IP addressable devices - that means that I can have 7 dual-tuner DVRs, giving me a grand total of 14 HD streams, not 2. I can also hook up my cable to as many TVs as I want directly to get my local HD channels in the clear. BTW, that 7 device limit is due to the router that FiOS employs. Their newer generation router ups that number to, I believe, 10 (20 tuners).


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> So, you can't get Fios, but your mad at what they have? Also, not every Fios market offers those 70 HD premiums. Why care about stuff you can't have?


Sorry to drag all this on like this, but again, this isn't true. EVERY market gets EVERY national channel with FiOS. Every single one. There are only two exceptions to this. First, while a channel is being rolled out. For a little while market A will have the channel while market B doesn't. Once the roll out is complete, every market has the channel. Second, Cablevision has an exclusive carry agreement with MSNBC, so in markets served by CV, FiOS currently can't offer that one channel.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

SPECIES11703 said:


> CORRECTION. It's 45 premium movie channels in HD not 80. I have FiOS and counted the HBO's, Showtime etc. Though the number of premiums in SD is 75.


Correct. And to correct the one other misstatement in the OP's post - Verizon doesn't have all premiums. For some stupid reason they don't carry Starz West HD. Not sure why - they do have all the others that are currently available, though. Again, not trying to drag this thread on, but I want to correct the record.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> because football sucks. its 300 bucks a season! who can afford that in this economy? if you want to watch a certain team, save yourself the money and move to their market. i'd rather watch HD movies 24 hours a day than be able to watch football for 6 hours a day for 17 days a year. theres no comparison!


no....movies suck.


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> football season is over, lets discuss something else.


no it isnt....theres still the pro bowl.


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

and the draft...


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

dcowboy7 said:


> no....movies suck.


no the Cowboys suck (well not as much as the Lions.)


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

MountainMan10 said:


> and the draft...


The draft is kind of the start of next season, though.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

MountainMan10 said:


> and the draft...


actually the Pro Bowl is considered the official end of the last season and free agency period is the unofficial start of the new season. theres also the Combine. THEN the Draft.

I watch NFL Network way too much


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

anyway back on the topic of bandwidth. the MPEG-2 versions of Showtime, HDNet Movies and Universal HD are being deleted on February 25. so with the freed up bandwidth maybe i will get my wish


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

I wouldn't count on it. Adding more mpeg 2 channels doesn't really make much sense at this point in the game. Most of the speculation for the freed up capacity is that they will move international to the 119/110's or potentially start leasing out that space. They won't add any more national programming to those dish's for english programming as people are getting installed with the SL3 for english programming in specific markets. They would not be able to see these new channels. It's always possible they will add more spanish language programming to try and tap into that market more.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

i said theyre deleting 3 MPEG-2 verions, not adding any. so correct me if my math is wrong but doesnt 2 MPEG-2 channels = 1 MPEG-4 channel?

i saw another thread somewhere that said they are adding a bunch of Spanish channels in a couple of months. pero no hablo Español muy bueno. yo quiero mucho canals de cine.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> so correct me if my math is wrong but doesnt 2 MPEG-2 channels = 1 MPEG-4 channel?


2 MPEG2 channels is approximately equal to 2 MPEG4 channels, since DirecTV bit-starved the MPEG2 channels.


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## Prince Oz (Jan 15, 2009)

Football over? Nonsense. That is why we have the NFL network. During the off season, it is like most of the movie channels. We get to watch the same football games on replay.:lol: And like some of the movie channels, we get to see some classic games as well. See, not much different than some of those movie channels.:grin:


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

speaking of football are there any NFLST subscribers here? i noticed the NFL Snap channel (700) is still there, while the other NFLST channels have been removed til next season. whyd they forget Snap? is there anything playing on it?


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> Verizon's network is totally different from U-verse. Verizon uses a broadcast system, where every channel is being delivered to everyone, all the time. So there are no restrictions on the number of streams, because there are no streams to being with. U-verse, on the other hand, uses IPTV for everything, so each channel being viewed or recorded in your house is being streamed to you and taking up bandwidth. So they have to limit you.


True, the FiOS service is still using bandwidth on the fiber line to the house though and can because it is FTTH and thus has way more bandwidth than UVerse which is FTTN. FiOS transfers the fiber TV to RF though in their demarc box at the house and thus inside it is distributed via coax.

They are very different technologies in many ways, but also similar in others and the limitation of UVerse is mainly because of the FTTN vs. FTTH approach differences in regards to bandwidth available that has determined how they must send out their content.


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## pjsauter (Jan 6, 2008)

FiOS TV's HD package does look pretty compelling. Their DVR looks a bit lacking (and a bit expensive to lease), but being able to watch 3 different recordings on three different receivers with one DVR looks interesting (only 20 hours of HD content, though; I'd have to be a lot more diligent about watching and deleting). 

I can't get FiOS TV where I live right now (we've had FiOS for quite a while, but Time Warner has the local governments in their pockets, I think), but it would be nice to see them roll it out by the time my current commitment ends in November. Not because I'm unhappy with DirecTV, but because I want to see these providers push each other to offer the best content at the best prices.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

pjsauter said:


> I want to see these providers push each other to offer the best content at the best prices.


thats excatly what I'm saying. come on D* be more competitive! you dont need any more sports! satisfy the movie lovers too!


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

Prince Oz said:


> Football over? Nonsense. That is why we have the NFL network. During the off season, it is like most of the movie channels. We get to watch the same football games on replay.:lol: And like some of the movie channels, we get to see some classic games as well. See, not much different than some of those movie channels.:grin:


if i haven't seen it is isnt a rerun to me. theres probably been like 100,000 movies made since the dawn of cinema and i probably haven't seen 75,000 of them.

same way with football, i haven't seen every Lions game ever played, but I would sure love to. this is why they invented recorded media.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> if i haven't seen it is isnt a rerun to me. theres probably been like 100,000 movies made since the dawn of cinema and i probably haven't seen 75,000 of them.


You've seen 25,000 movies??? :eek2:


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

AirRocker said:


> You've seen 25,000 movies??? :eek2:


i dont have an exact count, i was just trying to make a point. the numbers are probably hyperbolized but anyway theres thousands of movies out there that i haven't seen and I would like to. i was born in 1980 so i obviously couldnt go to movies in the theater before that but theres lots of classics id love to see on tv.


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## vansmack (Aug 14, 2006)

I own a snuggie - two of them actually. I also have Shamwow and the hair remover thingie. But I've never watched a Home Shopping Channel, perhaps I've seen a commercial, or to be more precise, an informercial? 

I don't live in the home area for any of my favorite sports teams, so I appreciate all of the Sports packages I purchase from DirecTV and I'm doubly happy for them being in HD.

Thank you DirecTV for finding a happy balance for most of your customers and keep up the good work.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

AirRocker said:


> You've seen 25,000 movies??? :eek2:


 Makes me wonder how many I've seen. Including TV and cable movies, maybe 10-12 a year since I was 10? I'm 55 now, so maybe 500 in my lifetime so far? /steve


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ummmm.....

Dish = Movies
DirecTV = Sports

Been that way going on 2 decades. Not going to change anytime soon.

If movies are your thing and you don't care about sports then go to Dish (or FIOS if that's an option). Seriously.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

the numbers are just examples and youre missing the point.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

AirRocker said:


> You've seen 25,000 movies??? :eek2:


I suppose it's possible... 2 a day for 35 years. !rolling


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

i like some sports but i dont need to see every game in the country live, highlights will suffice. I'm not going to Dish, they dont even have MLBN! and dont get me started on how much Comcast sucks. and like i said in my original post Verizon isnt here yet


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> I suppose it's possible... 2 a day for 35 years. !rolling


the numbers are just examples and youre missing the point.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> the numbers are just examples and youre missing the point.





TomCat4680 said:


> i like some sports but i dont need to see every game in the country live, highlights will suffice. I'm not going to Dish, they dont even have MLBN! and dont get me started on how much Comcast sucks. and like i said in my original post Verizon isnt here yet


Sorry, I guess I don't understand your point... the TV service you want (FIOS) isn't available to you so this thread was created to make FIOS aware of your problem? :scratchin

Or make DirecTV change their service to match a service that doesn't exist in 90% of the country? :scratchin

Or to just complain? :scratchin


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

tcusta00 said:


> Or make DirecTV change their service to match a service that doesn't exist in 90% of the country? :scratchin


the point was how can a company call itself the HD leader when another company has 3 times as many premium movie channels in HD. so i guess choice #2 would be the correct summarization.

it was also to point how that the sports packages are ridiculous and excessive and wasting bandwidth.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> i like some sports but i dont need to see every game in the country live, highlights will suffice. I'm not going to Dish, they dont even have MLBN! and dont get me started on how much Comcast sucks. and like i said in my original post Verizon isnt here yet


FiOSTV is a tempting choice for me as well. It's in my area, I'm already a FiOS internet customer and while I'm an avid sports fan, it's more my local teams, so no Sunday Ticket or EI packages for me. Problem is the DVR's are $16/ea per month, and they only offer enough HD storage for about 20 hours of HD programming.

/steve


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> the point was how can a company call itself the HD leader when another company has 3 times as many premium movie channels in HD. so i guess choice #2 would be the correct summarization.


Go with the HD leader then.

Oh wait. You can't.

How can a company call itself the HD leader if 90% of the country can't access them? 

Which leaves us with which provider that's the national leader in HD?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> Which leaves us with which provider that's the national leader in HD?


The answer to that question isn't as clear as it once was. And really, it's a question that many times doesn't even matter. The best question is, which provider is the leader in HD *that's available to me* and carries the channels I care about.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

yeah but the 130 national HD channels claim is a bold face lie! 76 of them are national, 54 are regional sports networks which have blackouts and very little HD content except live games, most of which are subfeeds or overflows that are ONLY used for games!


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

tcusta00 said:


> How can a company call itself the HD leader if 90% of the country can't access them?


Well in fairness to Verizon, they're probably only claiming this in markets they compete in. I don't believe they're spending advertising $$$ in markets they can't acquire customers in yet, are they? I don't know, because I'm in their market. /steve


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

TomCat4680 said:


> it was also to point how that the sports packages are ridiculous and excessive and wasting bandwidth.


What you don't seem to understand is sports is what *defines* DirecTV. They talk about it at every financial conference call. Just in the last one they talked about expanding even more HD sports available. It's their calling card and they will continue to do everything to keep it that way and sports will take priority over "HBO 10: Rerun of the runs" any day of the week.

Now you may not agree with that but it's what defines DirecTV and what they push. It's certainly good to request more of what you want (movie channels) but just realize that it's not DirecTV's priority and probably won't be any time soon.

Not sure why it wouldn't pay for you to get Netflix with say 4 or 5 out at a time and save money over paying for the premium movie channels. But that's just me.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

yes but they need to satisfy everyone. 75% of the country probably doesnt care about 90% of the sports they offer.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Jeremy W said:


> The answer to that question isn't as clear as it once was. And really, it's a question that many times doesn't even matter. The best question is, which provider is the leader in HD *that's available to me* and carries the channels I care about.


Exactly my point!  The OP (and everyone, for that matter) should subscribe to the service that gives them the most of what they want for a price they're willing to pay. In the case of the OP, that seems to be DirecTV or Dish. Threads like these seem to serve little purpose than create some kind of "my X is bigger than yours" contest that goes nowhere.



TomCat4680 said:


> yeah but the 130 national HD channels claim is a bold face lie! 76 of them are national, 54 are regional sports networks which have blackouts and very little HD content except live games, most of which are subfeeds or overflows that are ONLY used for games!


Why do you continue to give them your money?  If the answer is "because I'm under contract" then why did you sign up for them in the first place? They've always been all about sports. It's no secret.



Steve said:


> Well in fairness to Verizon, they're probably only claiming this in markets they compete in. I don't believe they're spending advertising $$$ in markets they can't acquire customers in yet, are they? I don't know, because I'm in their market. /steve


Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that Verizon is claiming to be the HD leader... I've never seen an ad that claims this, I just assumed that the OP thinks they are the HD leader.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> yes but they need to satisfy everyone.


Huh? Why? And when did they claim to _want _to satisfy everyone?

Ugh, this is going down a silly path now.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> yes but they need to satisfy everyone.


No provider can completely satisfy everyone. DirecTV has chosen to focus on sports, Dish has chosen to focus on movies. DirecTV's choice has apparently paid off, since they've always been in much better shape financially than Dish.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

well why cant they try HARDER to satisfy MORE people at least?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> well why cant they try HARDER to satisfy MORE people at least?


Why should they? Because you say so? You're not giving any real reasons here, aside from your own desires.

DirecTV is the sports leader. Period. Everything else is secondary, always has been.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> well why cant they try HARDER to satisfy MORE people at least?


...


tcusta00 said:


> Ugh, this is going down a silly path now.


Good luck! I hope you find what you're looking for in a TV service provider.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

ok you explain your reasoning then why dedicate themselves to sports? why completely ignore the millions of movie fans and lose those customers to Dish and cable?


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## jbtv (Jan 15, 2008)

Because it's a better option that makes them more money.

Sounds like you just need Netflix.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> ok you explain your reasoning then why dedicate themselves to sports?


It's not my reasoning, I didn't make the decision.


TomCat4680 said:


> why completely ignore the millions of movie fans and lose those customers to Dish and cable?


Umm, channels 501-552 indicate that DirecTV is *not* completely ignoring movie fans.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

jpl said:


> Ugh... not this one again. FiOS is NOT limited to 2 or 4 HD streams. I can have (currently) up to 7 IP addressable devices - that means that I can have 7 dual-tuner DVRs, giving me a grand total of 14 HD streams, not 2. I can also hook up my cable to as many TVs as I want directly to get my local HD channels in the clear. BTW, that 7 device limit is due to the router that FiOS employs. Their newer generation router ups that number to, I believe, 10 (20 tuners).


I've been educating myself, based upon some PMs discussions. Some discoveries that I think I understand now:
1) FIOS is not 2.5gbs to the prem even if it is FTTP, they use 2.5gbs to the neighborhood and split that upto 32 ways.
2) FIOS uses a standard 870MHz cable stream to the home for most of their channels. Also makes it compatible with existing cable ready devices. (Yes, delivered via optical cable and converted at the home to coax.)
3) Current FIOS customers are only fed 20 analog channels, leaving the bulk of the 870MHz cable stream for digital and HD channels. (Unlike cable which often still serves 60-80 analog channels taking up 500MHz of the bandwidth.) This cable feed will definitely feed truly unlimited tuners.
4) Thus FIOS can feed all VOD via IPTV to a virtually unlimited tuners.

I'm also willing to accept that I still missed something in the above analysis.

Anyway, I retract the 2-4 HD tuner limitations. Looks like the customers in country that _can _get it, can be fed much like DIRECTV customers. (Which I can get right now.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> ok you explain your reasoning then why dedicate themselves to sports? why completely ignore the millions of movie fans and lose those customers to Dish and cable?


_Clearly _DirecTV is hurting and could benefit from some of your good ideas. I hope they're listening. 

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

TomCat4680 said:


> the point was how can a company call itself the HD leader when another company has 3 times as many premium movie channels in HD. so i guess choice #2 would be the correct summarization.
> 
> it was also to point how that the sports packages are ridiculous and excessive and wasting bandwidth.





TomCat4680 said:


> yes but they need to satisfy everyone. 75% of the country probably doesnt care about 90% of the sports they offer.


And again, the viewpoint is always going to be skewed toward the desires of the person making that determination. What percentage of the country doesn't care about 90% of the movies that they carry now, let alone the twice as many more movie channels that just replay the same things over and over again.

My personal viewpoint is I would watch much more sports programming than movies and would feel that adding ALL of the available movie/premium channels would be ridiculous, excessive and a waste of bandwidth.

So who's right??? It all depends on the person determining what "right" is.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

is this another thread dicussion altogether...

why doesn't DirecTV just buy out Dish network? E* is obviously suffering based on that chart. that way everyone would be satisfied, sports fans AND movie fans.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Current FIOS customers are only feed 20 analog channels, leaving the bulk of the 870MHz cable stream for digital and HD channels.


This is the only problem I could find in your post. FiOS completely eliminated all analog channels a couple months ago. They are 100% digital, which means they have the full 870MHz for digital channels, including HD. That's 145 QAM channels, each of which can carry ~10 SD channels or 2 full bitrate HD channels. In other words, a massive amount of bandwidth.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> why doesn't DirecTV just buy out Dish network?


This was tried before, it didn't work out.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

Jeremy W said:


> This was tried before, it didn't work out.


well why the hell not? makes perfect sense to me. works for phone companies. works for railroads. works for the entertainment industry. worked for The Super Friends.

United we stand, divided we fall?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> well why the hell not?


Federal regulators said no.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> well why the hell not? makes perfect sense to me. works for phone companies. works for railroads. works for the entertainment industry.


FCC blocked it. If it went through there would still probably be two services... you can't see all the satellites in the Dish and DirecTV networks with just one dish unless it's got a giant reflector... let alone the technological differences in the receivers, which I have no clue about, personally.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

ya but XM and Sirius merged. how is satellite tv different from satellite radio in the FCC's mind? or Sprint and Nextel? or AT&T and Cingular?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> This is the only problem I could find in your post. FiOS completely eliminated all analog channels a couple months ago. They are 100% digital, which means they have the full 870MHz for digital channels, including HD. That's 145 QAM channels, each of which can carry ~10 SD channels or 2 full bitrate HD channels. In other words, a massive amount of bandwidth.


Thanks Jeremy.

Only 2 HD channels per? I thought QAM was more efficient than that.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

TomCat4680 said:


> ya but XM and Sirius merged. how is satellite tv different from satellite radio in the FCC's mind? or Sprint and Nextel? or AT&T and Cingular?


Long, long story. Basically both companies have emerged as strong enough on their own, whereas XM and Sirius did not. While similar services, satellite radio is still not established so the FCC treated them differently.

Cheers,
Tom


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

Tom Robertson said:


> I've been educating myself, based upon some PMs discussions. Some discoveries that I think I understand now:
> 1) FIOS is not 2.5gbs to the prem even if it is FTTP, they use 2.5gbs to the neighborhood and split that upto 32 ways.
> 2) FIOS uses a standard 870MHz cable stream to the home for most of their channels. Also makes it compatible with existing cable ready devices. (Yes, delivered via optical cable and converted at the home to coax.)
> 3) Current FIOS customers are only feed 20 analog channels, leaving the bulk of the 870MHz cable stream for digital and HD channels. (Unlike cable which often still serves 60-80 analog channels taking up 500MHz of the bandwidth.) This cable feed will definitely feed truly unlimited tuners.
> ...


Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS, FiOS is 100% digital now giving it the equivalent of a 850mhz all digital cable plant. It actually ends up even better off since it doesn't need to use any of the QAM channels for data like cable internet does or for On Demand since it is handled via IPTV and comes down the data side of things not the tv side of things.

Doing some quick numbers at 6mhz per QAM channel and assuming a fairly standard 50-850mhz usage and assuming 2 hd channels per QAM channel it should be able to do 250+ hd channels. With Digital SD channels each hd channel could be replaced by 6 sd channels so you could easily do 200+ hd channels and 1000+ sd channels. EG at this point Verizons infrastructure can probably support every possible channel they would want to provide.

Combining a surplus of capacity with a desire to grow their service and break into a new market and you can easily see how they would be a very eager to add as many channels as possible. I've seen some indications they are willing to pay pretty heavily for channels at this point. In my area it does seem to support that theory. Comcast Sports Network is a fairly recent cable sports network and just this year got a contract for Blazers and the University of Oregon Ducks. This has caused a lot of people to all of a sudden be interested in the channel but it's not available on most providers outside of comcast. Neither Dish or DirecTV has CSNNW. Most of the other cable providers in the area don't have it either. FiOS on the other hand does have it.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

yes but if they combined their powers they could be unstoppable!


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> yes but if they combined their powers they could be unstoppable!


It's not possible.

And, again, it doesn't make the customers of the respective companies automatically have access to all of the resources and programming of the other.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

why not? D* can just buy E*'s satellites and offer the channels they didnt have before. whats the problem? E* wouldnt exist any more, all E* customers would automatically become D* customers. thats what happened with the AT&T/Cingular and Sprint/Nextel mergers/buyouts.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

For a merger to take advantage of the combined bandwidth, several billion dollars in receiver replacements would have to happen which would take years.

Also, Dish Network leases a lot of their space.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

so why not use the money from all of the out of market sports package subscribers and upgrade the equipment? i dont believe in the word impossible when it comes to technology.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Only 2 HD channels per? I thought QAM was more efficient than that.


A single QAM 256 channel gives you about 38.8Mbps, and an uncompressed MPEG2 HD channel is about 19.4Mbps.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> so why not use the money from all of the out of market sports package subscribers and upgrade the equipment?


Do you have even the slightest idea of how business works? Do you think DirecTV gets those packages for free? With NFLST, DirecTV actually loses money on the package itself.


TomCat4680 said:


> i dont believe in the word impossible when it comes to technology.


Nobody said it was impossible, it's just way too expensive to be worth doing.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

TomCat4680 said:


> so why not use the money from all of the out of market sports package subscribers and upgrade the equipment? i dont believe in the word impossible when it comes to technology.


It is not so much impossible. You are quite right that it is possible.

But it is not economical nor timely. For the cost of replacing all the Dish Network receivers, DIRECTV can launch several satellites. (Literally.)

And DIRECTV has the bandwidth allocations to launch those satellites into.

So DIRECTV has no advantage to buying up Dish Network right now. Except for combining some aspects of G&A perhaps.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> why not? D* can just buy E*'s satellites and offer the channels they didnt have before. whats the problem? E* wouldnt exist any more, all E* customers would automatically become D* customers. thats what happened with the AT&T/Cingular and Sprint/Nextel mergers/buyouts.


Because you're looking at completely different technology. The phone companies started as AT&T then were forced to split off due to monopoly rules then they were allowed to be bought back. They used GSM so it was just a matter of updating billing software and merging the databases.

Satellites on the other hand are in space and leased at certain orbits, 72.5, 95, 99, 101, 103, 110, 119 for D*. E* has then in other spots and you can't just move them from one place to another. So everyone would need a dish that can pick up all that information. Then you would have the different encryption the companies use. Essentially one company would have to replace all of the equipment for the others. Then there's the fact that Charlie Ergen and Chase Carry would make the best UFC fight ever if they got into the ring.

So even if the stars aligned and the FCC approved it you wouldn't see a benefit from it for a long time.

The part that cracks me up is that you won't leave D* because they have a sports package you can't get through E* but you want to complain about D* not providing your needs.

Other people have mentioned netflix and you choose to ignore it so that really means you're not looking for a solution at this point but just continuing this for whatever reason. Netflix is cheaper then any other company out there per movie. Hell what you have for movie channels you could subscribe to netflix and blockbusters service and get more movies then you could watch in a week. Assuming you do more then just watch movies.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Tom Robertson said:


> It is not so much impossible. You are quite right that it is possible.
> 
> But it is not economical nor timely. For the cost of replacing all the Dish Network receivers, DIRECTV can launch several satellites. (Literally.)
> 
> ...


Well I would say the biggest advantage would be basically cornering the market on international programming which at this point Dish is top dog and VZN is getting close.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Shades228 said:


> Well I would say the biggest advantage would be basically cornering the market on international programming which at this point Dish is top dog and VZN is getting close.


Again, that would be a horrendous cost for the acquisition. All DIRECTV needs to do is launch one more satellite and they could corner that market too.

(Or maybe they don't even need to launch a new satellite...) 

Happy Groundhog Day,
Tom


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

True it would really just be in D*'s best interest to let E* get to the point where they basically fold then convert their customers and lease out their satellites then it would to buy them. 

However we're starting to get OT so I'll stop the speculation.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

I can't believe this topic is still going. wow.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> I can't believe this topic is still going. wow.


Well, you just helped it go a little longer. Good work.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Jeremy W said:


> Well, you just helped it go a little longer. Good work.


as did you. good job.


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## tbpb3 (Dec 10, 2006)

wonder when verizon will outbid directv for the football package. One othe these years they will lose it


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

tbpb3 said:


> wonder when verizon will outbid directv for the football package. One othe these years they will lose it


Only dish / Direct tv has the coverage for it.

Cable and FiOS is too small for it.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> At least with DIRECTV I can watch and record all the HD channels at one time... No limits of 2 or 4 HD streams delivered...
> 
> Oh and I won't see FIOS here for a very, very long time. So I could switch to comcast (pay more, much much more, for less) switch to dish and give up NFL and pay about the same or more (10 DVRs add up...), or go entirely netflix and hulu. Ugh...
> 
> So while I'm free to move, why in the heck would I ever want to?


I agree Tom. Lots of drawbacks to FIOS, the least of which is limitations in just being able to get it. Still in my opinion that doesn't excuse some of DirecTV's shortcomings in the HD premium channel department, most notably in the HBO/MAX suite of channels. Not even all of the limited number HBO/MAX channels that DirecTV carries in SD are mirrored in HD, and then there's all the other unique (not just west coast delayed feed) HBO/MAX channels that DirecTV customers don't get in SD or in HD.

I for one will be shooting off another email to DirecTV on this subject, this time suggesting that to coincide with their recently announced price increases on the premium packages, I at the very least expect to see HD mirrors (if available) for all the SD premiums carried by DirecTV, plus at least _some_ of the other premiums that have long been missing from the DirecTV premium packages.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Cartivision,

If I may suggest, be balanced and send a note to HBO as well.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

i dont just watch movies. im more interested in the original series on HBO and Showtime. so is my gf. she has NetFlix too and uses it alot. but since i cant afford a blue ray player im stuck with the premiums for HD movies. ok im not gettin what i want since D* only cares about sports fans and im not getting E* or comcast and V* and A* arent here and probably never will be so lets just close this thread.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> I for one will be shooting off another email to DirecTV on this subject, this time suggesting that to coincide with their recently announced price increases on the premium packages, I at the very least expect to see HD mirrors (if available) for all the SD premiums carried by DirecTV, plus at least _some_ of the other premiums that have long been missing from the DirecTV premium packages.


i obviously agree with you but seems like a waste of time since D* only cares about sports fans. maybe a petition would work better instead of individual letters.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> I can't believe this topic is still going. wow.


I can't believe that DirecTV's most valuable customers still don't even have HD versions just the set of HBO/MAX channels that they get in SD.

Double WOW.

Expect the topic to keep going at the very least until that minimal (and long overdue) milestone is met by DirecTV.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

D* has Showtime and Starz suites too cartivision. although several of the spinoffs are missing from them too, as well as the west coast feeds. 

lets start a petition for them to match the premium HD's of Verizon. D* employees who have power to add channels dont read these boards.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

<Mod hat on>
We can't get into discussions of petitions or similar "actions".

Thanks,
Tom


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

why not tom R? 

hey check out my status. hey now! im an All Star! get my game on! go plaaaaaaay! :icon_band


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> I agree Tom. Lots of drawbacks to FIOS, the least of which is limitations in just being able to get it.


The only significant complaint I know of about FiOS is the pathetic 160gb hd in the DVR which they only rate at 20 hours of HD. They don't have a 2hd, 4 channels total limit. That is Uverse only. I believe you can even get past the 7 addressable boxes limit if you have boxes that don't need On Demand and the other interactive features. I don't know if they have Hd boxes but they did have basic sd boxes that didn't have guide/on demand etc functionality that just allowed you to tune the QAM channels.

Now that still may not cover it for Tom with his total number of DVRs but for most 7 dvrs + additional basic tuners should be plenty. Also as was mentioned that is just a limitation of the hardware that is currently being installed at the customers location and not a limitation based on the architecture of the system it's self like UVerse's limited bandwidth available for iptv due to ADSL usage. I think UVerse is ultimately going to be a failure just because it's already severally limited and it's still in initial deployment and not even widely available. I don't see any magic solution that is going to improve things for them either.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Cartivision,
> 
> If I may suggest, be balanced and send a note to HBO as well.


I might if you can suggest how it might help. I'm not the type to issue a ridiculously empty threat about dropping HBO since my complaint is that I can't get enough of it. It's not like HBO is refusing to let DirecTV add the missing HD channels, and it seems to me that requesting them from HBO would do little other than to put them [HBO] in a better negotiating position since they probably would benefit by having me as their customer via some other provider who carried more of the HBO/MAX channels.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

pm cartivision


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

cartrivision said:


> I might if you can suggest how it might help. I'm not the type to issue a ridiculously empty threat about dropping HBO since my complaint is that I can't get enough of it. It's not like HBO is refusing to let DirecTV add the missing HD channels, and it seems to me that requesting them from HBO would do little other than to put them [HBO] in a better negotiating position since they probably would benefit by having me as their customer via some other provider who carried more of the HBO/MAX channels.


In a negotiation both sides are not permitting until the contract is settled.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> D* has Showtime and Starz suites too cartivision. although several of the spinoffs are missing from them too, as well as the west coast feeds.
> 
> lets start a petition for them to match the premium HD's of Verizon. D* employees who have power to add channels dont read these boards.


I realize that there is not full HD coverage of the SHO and Starz channels. I just concentrate on the HBO/MAX channels because that is where I see DirecTV lacking most both in terms of not having HD versions of what they do carry in SD, and in terms of many other channels that are available from HBO/MAX which DirecTV caries neither in SD or HD. My preference would be additional (unique) channels before west coast feeds of east coast feeds already in HD.

The other major lack of HD premiums is in the Encore channels, but I'm not sure if some or all of those are even available in HD from the provider.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> I might if you can suggest how it might help. I'm not the type to issue a ridiculously empty threat about dropping HBO since my complaint is that I can't get enough of it. It's not like HBO is refusing to let DirecTV add the missing HD channels, and it seems to me that requesting them from HBO would do little other than to put them [HBO] in a better negotiating position since they probably would benefit by having me as their customer via some other provider who carried more of the HBO/MAX channels.


I'm sure HBO/MAX are asking DirecTV for something to allow them to carry those additional stations or hd versions of them. Both sides have to come to an agreement before we'll get the channel and letting both sides know we want the channels can't hurt.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

only regular Encore is in HD, none of the spinoffs.

Comcast doesnt even consider Encore a premium channel and they offer it free, even though Starz is extra. makes no sense but hey its Comcast.


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## deweydm (Sep 5, 2007)

cartrivision said:


> I can't believe that DirecTV's most valuable customers still don't even have HD versions just the set of HBO/MAX channels that they get in SD.


I can't believe enough folks haven't dropped HBO because of this to get their attention. Yet? I know I wont resubscribe till the HD versions for all the HBO channels are available.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

TomCat4680 said:


> but since i cant afford a blue ray player im stuck with the premiums for HD movies.


Drop the premiums and in about 6 months you've got yourself a Blu-ray player if you save up the money.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

I switched to FiOS a couple of months ago because I am a movie lover and I got tired of waiting for D* to add more premium movie channels in HD. FiOS is awesome. The HD PQ is better, and, after a recent software update, the SD PQ is nearly DVD quality. After having D* and E*, it's trippy being able to actually watch and enjoy SD channels on my 55" plasma.

I have a Blu-ray player, an HD DVD player, NetFlix (and a streaming NetFlix player), a 400 disc DVD changer, AND all the premium movie channels. If you can afford it, why limit your options?

And oh yeah, how about them Stillers?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

If FIOS was an option for me I'd probably have it myself. But Verizon isn't even within 200 miles of me and never will.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> I've been educating myself, based upon some PMs discussions. Some discoveries that I think I understand now:
> 1) FIOS is not 2.5gbs to the prem even if it is FTTP, they use 2.5gbs to the neighborhood and split that upto 32 ways.
> 2) FIOS uses a standard 870MHz cable stream to the home for most of their channels. Also makes it compatible with existing cable ready devices. (Yes, delivered via optical cable and converted at the home to coax.)
> 3) Current FIOS customers are only fed 20 analog channels, leaving the bulk of the 870MHz cable stream for digital and HD channels. (Unlike cable which often still serves 60-80 analog channels taking up 500MHz of the bandwidth.) This cable feed will definitely feed truly unlimited tuners.
> ...


Oh... so close! Number 3 is close, but not quite right. They used to have enough space for 40 analog channels per market. They've since shut those down (part of that was due to an FCC requirement - they got a waiver for the separable security requirement on their cable boxes, which means, in FCC's perverse logic, that they needed to eliminate all their analogs by 2/17/09). They're now 100% digital.

Also, they don't feed their live TV feeds via IP. Their guide data and VOD come in via IP, which is why their cable boxes need to be IP addressable (they run a QAM/IP hybrid architecture).

Also - didn't mean to jump on you about that. I just see incorrect information out there alot about this stuff.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

evan_s said:


> Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS, FiOS is 100% digital now giving it the equivalent of a 850mhz all digital cable plant. It actually ends up even better off since it doesn't need to use any of the QAM channels for data like cable internet does or for On Demand since it is handled via IPTV and comes down the data side of things not the tv side of things.
> 
> Doing some quick numbers at 6mhz per QAM channel and assuming a fairly standard 50-850mhz usage and assuming 2 hd channels per QAM channel it should be able to do 250+ hd channels. With Digital SD channels each hd channel could be replaced by 6 sd channels so you could easily do 200+ hd channels and 1000+ sd channels. EG at this point Verizons infrastructure can probably support every possible channel they would want to provide.
> 
> Combining a surplus of capacity with a desire to grow their service and break into a new market and you can easily see how they would be a very eager to add as many channels as possible. I've seen some indications they are willing to pay pretty heavily for channels at this point. In my area it does seem to support that theory. Comcast Sports Network is a fairly recent cable sports network and just this year got a contract for Blazers and the University of Oregon Ducks. This has caused a lot of people to all of a sudden be interested in the channel but it's not available on most providers outside of comcast. Neither Dish or DirecTV has CSNNW. Most of the other cable providers in the area don't have it either. FiOS on the other hand does have it.


The 870MHz gives them 135 QAM channels. Running MPEG-2 (which they do) with no additional compression allows them to carry 2 HD, or 8 - 9 SD, channels per QAM. If they opt to carry 150 HD channels (which appears to be the Holy Grail these days), that sucks up 75 QAMs, leaving 60 for SD. Which gives them enough room for ~500 SD channels on top of those 150 HD.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Thanks Jeremy.
> 
> Only 2 HD channels per? I thought QAM was more efficient than that.
> 
> ...


Each QAM can carry about 40Mbps. Since each HD mpeg-2 channel peaks at ~19.4Mbps, you can safely carry 2 HD channels per QAM. It's not a matter of QAM not being efficient - it's more of a matter of how efficient mpeg-2 is. If they ever migrate to mpeg-4, they'll be able to expand their bandwidth by up to an additional 50%.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

jpl said:


> Oh... so close! Number 3 is close, but not quite right. They used to have enough space for 40 analog channels per market. They've since shut those down (part of that was due to an FCC requirement - they got a waiver for the separable security requirement on their cable boxes, which means, in FCC's perverse logic, that they needed to eliminate all their analogs by 2/17/09). They're now 100% digital.
> 
> Also, they don't feed their live TV feeds via IP. Their guide data and VOD come in via IP, which is why their cable boxes need to be IP addressable (they run a QAM/IP hybrid architecture).
> 
> Also - didn't mean to jump on you about that. I just see incorrect information out there alot about this stuff.


No worries, I don't feel jumped upon. I knew the reports I was reading were older than yesterday, meaning they could easily be outdated. 

Thanks for the updates.
Tom


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

ok oenough of the geekspeak that only u 2 guys understand. back to the original topic. wheres my HD premiums?


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

i emailed HBO/Cinemax and Showtime/TMC. now to wait for my canned response


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

TomCat4680 said:


> ok oenough of the geekspeak that only u 2 guys understand. back to the original topic. wheres my HD premiums?


No worries, I am sure plenty of us are reading and understanding.

I for one am just watching things pan out :lol:

Even with them in HD or with all the other channels in the packages, the premiums are still to rich for my blood vs. what they offer as far as content. In any event, I hope that for the people with them that they finally sometime get more of the channels, but people have been asking this for years and it has not changed.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Reaper said:


> And oh yeah, how about them Stillers?


Jerry and Ben are both quite funny.



TomCat4680 said:


> hey check out my status. hey now! im an All Star! get my game on! go plaaaaaaay! :icon_band


There's frequency of posting and then there's quality. The former is easy to attain, the latter is the challenge.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> No worries, I don't feel jumped upon. I knew the reports I was reading were older than yesterday, meaning they could easily be outdated.
> 
> Thanks for the updates.
> Tom


Just for the record (sorry to get into more geekspeak here) but they eventually will be full IP. That's been their stated goal. I think that's why they (ironically) got caught flat-footed on the HD front. When they were architecting FiOS they reserved enough space for ~30 HD channels per market. At the time, that was alot (more than both DirecTV or Dish). I think their goal was to provide enough bandwidth to get them to full IP, which was slated to start rolling out in 2009 - 2010, from what I understand. Then DirecTV changed things - by adding all those HD channels, they drew a line in the sand with other providers. As a result, Verizon took the training wheels off - they eliminated their analogs (freeing up the equivalent of 40 QAMs of space), and they expanded out their TV service to the full 870MHz, giving them the full 135 QAMs.

They did all that last summer, and it wasn't a cheap undertaking. I think that will, however, allow them to hold off on full IP until it's more mature of an architecture. It probably delayed their full IP roll out by at least 2 - 3 years. Some circumstantial proof of that came in a recent press release by the company where they announced (and I forget the actual dates, but this is just for purposes of illustration) that they would be 50% GPON by I think the end of 2010. What does that mean?

Well, what you were talking about with their speed to the node (before being divided up 32 ways) is accurate. However, most of their system currently runs BPON. To get to full IP, they really need to go full GPON, which effectively quadruples download (and upload) speed. Since the rollout of GPON is being delayed, you can surmise that the roll out of full IP will likewise be delayed.

Personally I think they should stick with the hybrid architecture. There's no reason to waste all that space they freed up. They can easily migrate some channels to IP, while leaving a vast majority as QAM (an architecture that CableVision currently employs - their's is a hybrid QAM/SDV architecture).

Back to the OP's question - why doesn't DirecTV have more? The two answers given were valid ones - bandwidth and contracts. Could they squeeze those channels in now? Sure. They would give up their PPV feeds to do it. It's probably just not worth it for them at this point.

To me (and this is something I saw happening at least a year ago), D10 was all about adding national HD channels. And D11 was all about consolidation of national HD (elimination of the mpeg-2 HD channels, e.g.) and expansion of local markets. Given how many locals they added, I think my assessment was pretty spot-on. Some time ago I posted on one of these threads that it was likely that you'd have to wait until D12 to see a significant increase in more HD. I still believe that. That being said, and given DirecTV's prior commitment to carry the additional premium HD channels, if I had to guess I would say that they would be turned on late in 2009 - in time for the holiday season. But that's just a guess. It could be later if they decide that they won't get the bang for their buck by making those channels a priority.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

jpl said:


> The 870MHz gives them 135 QAM channels. Running MPEG-2 (which they do) with no additional compression allows them to carry 2 HD, or 8 - 9 SD, channels per QAM. If they opt to carry 150 HD channels (which appears to be the Holy Grail these days), that sucks up 75 QAMs, leaving 60 for SD. Which gives them enough room for ~500 SD channels on top of those 150 HD.


I was just guessing it and it looks like my guesses where high. But even so 150 hd channels and 500 sd channels with unlimited IPTV channels for on demand/SDV sure seems like plenty of capacity. =)

Over all I'm impressed with the tech behind FiOS. I would have signed up for the internet service but even tho they stuck a hanger on my door advertising their triple play package was in my neighborhood they still don't offer it at my apt. If they ever got a DVR more than a 160gb HD I might consider their TV service too.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

evan_s said:


> I was just guessing it and it looks like my guesses where high. But even so 150 hd channels and 500 sd channels with unlimited IPTV channels for on demand/SDV sure seems like plenty of capacity. =)
> 
> Over all I'm impressed with the tech behind FiOS. I would have signed up for the internet service but even tho they stuck a hanger on my door advertising their triple play package was in my neighborhood they still don't offer it at my apt. If they ever got a DVR more than a 160gb HD I might consider their TV service too.


I keep hearing rumors that they're coming out with a new DVR this year... take that for what its worth - not very much.  Your guesses were a tad high, yeah, but your point is taken. They have alot of capacity is the point. And if they decide to stick with QAM they have even more:

1) They could migrate to 1GHz TV service - not sure exactly how many QAMs that would give them - each QAM is 6 MHz wide, but I believe that they put a small buffer between QAMs, and there are some frequencies that I understand that are unusable. Other cable services are going this route, but they have an issue that Verizon doesn't. Cable companies power their own cable lines - and there's a signal dropp-off that happens with each linear foot of cable. And the higher the frequency, the faster the drop-off. So, to move to 1GHz service, most cable companies would have to increase their power, via additional boosting stations. Verizon powers their service at your home, via their ONT (optical network terminal - they box that converts the light to electricity). The ONT is speced to run really hot - so hot, in fact, that most customers have to have their TV signal attenuated (I have an attenuator on one set top box).

2) They could migrate to mpeg-4. This would be plausible... but expensive. None of the set top boxes that they currently have deployed are mpeg-4 enabled. The next ones will be, but think about how many cable boxes they would have to replace.

The issue with the QAM/SDV hybrid architecture is that FCC regulation for separable security that I mentioned. Currently CV is paying a fine to the FCC because of their architecture. The reason for that regulation is to allow you to go buy a cable box off the shelf and, with a cable card from the cable company, use that box instead. Granted, you'd still have to lease a cable card, but that's a heck of alot cheaper than leasing a full cable box. The FCC is fining CV because the few boxes that are out there (e.g. Tivo) don't support (currently) SDV. So if you want those SDV-fed channels, you have to get their cable box, which sort of conflicts with the whole separable security requirement to begin with.

It's kinda odd, though - I mean U-Verse is full IP. You can't get their service unless you lease their boxes. DBS is essentially an SDV architecture. Why is cable special in this regard? Why are they beholden to requirements that other providers are not?

Ok... off the soapbox... back to the topic of the thread


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

evan_s said:


> I was just guessing it and it looks like my guesses where high. But even so 150 hd channels and 500 sd channels with unlimited IPTV channels for on demand/SDV sure seems like plenty of capacity. =)


And don't forget 150 is an estimated capacity for MPEG-2 HD channels. I believe that some broadcasters, like HBO), are converting to MPEG-4 delivery of their channels. /steve


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> 2) They could migrate to mpeg-4. This would be plausible... but expensive. None of the set top boxes that they currently have deployed are mpeg-4 enabled.


Actually the QIP 7xxx boxes that are currently being deployed are MPEG-4 and DD 7.1 capable. What's astonishing to me, however, is that they still only have 160 GB hard drives!

What are they thinking????? /steve


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Steve said:


> Actually the QIP 7xxx boxes that are currently being deployed are MPEG-4 and DD 7.1 capable. What's astonishing to me, however, is that they still only have 160 GB hard drives!
> 
> What are they thinking????? /steve


There are rumours that they're planning on enabling esata external hard drive support this year.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Steve said:


> Actually the QIP 7xxx boxes that are currently being deployed are MPEG-4 and DD 7.1 capable. What's astonishing to me, however, is that they still only have 160 GB hard drives!
> 
> What are they thinking????? /steve


How much more are they paying to get a smaller drive these days? 

(OEM Prices for drives are amazingly the same from 160GB thru 500GB right now.)


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Reaper said:


> There are rumours that they're planning on enabling esata external hard drive support this year.


That's a step in the right direction, but how cheap can they be? Difference between a 160GB internal drive and a 320GB internal drive in quantity is probably less than $10! They charge $16/month to rent the boxes. /steve

EDIT: Like Tom said! :lol:


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Steve said:


> That's a step in the right direction, but how cheap can they be? Difference between a 160GB internal drive and a 320GB internal drive in quantity is probably less than $10! They charge $16/month to rent the boxes.


If I have the ability to add an external drive then I won't care about the size of the internal drive.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

jpl said:


> It's kinda odd, though - I mean U-Verse is full IP. You can't get their service unless you lease their boxes. DBS is essentially an SDV architecture. Why is cable special in this regard? Why are they beholden to requirements that other providers are not?


Cable got screwed over because cable-ready TVs existed for so many years that allowed people to get all or almost all of their channels without a box. DBS and U-verse were never able to do this.

Even now, with mandatory separable security, how many cable boxes can you buy on your own? Your choice is either a Tivo or Windows Media Center.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

Jeremy W said:


> Cable got screwed over because cable-ready TVs existed for so many years that allowed people to get all or almost all of their channels without a box. DBS and U-verse were never able to do this.
> 
> Even now, with mandatory separable security, how many cable boxes can you buy on your own? Your choice is either a Tivo or Windows Media Center.


...or Moxi.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

can we get back on topic? i got a response from Showtime, they said its not their fault, contact DirecTV. but thats like talking to a wall


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

Tom Robertson said:


> How much more are they paying to get a smaller drive these days?
> 
> (OEM Prices for drives are amazingly the same from 160GB thru 500GB right now.)


I don't understand it either but it seems to be pretty common across all providers that use Motorola boxes. From what I've found on line even their latest DCX boxes that support mpeg 4 have a 160gb hd as the base hd. They do have an option for 250gb hd but from what I've read on AVSforums that drastically increases the cost to the provider for the box.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> can we get back on topic? i got a response from Showtime, they said its not their fault, contact DirecTV. but thats like talking to a wall


If the thread stayed on topic then it would have ended on page 1; DirecTV purposefully positions themselves as the sports leader, at the expense of premium movie channel programming.

If you want more premium movie channels, switch to Dish Network or FiOS when it comes to your area.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

I'm NOT getting E* because they don't have MLB Network. 

how bout them Steelers?


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> I'm NOT getting E* because they don't have MLB Network.
> 
> how bout them Steelers?


Ah, there's the conundrum. I'm an out of market Steelers fan so I have FiOS _and _D*. I've suspended D* until next NFL season when I will reactivate it for NFL ST. I used to do this with E* too until they dropped the VOOM Networks.

Unfortunately, I don't think that you're going to get D* to change their stripes when it comes to premium movie channels, in HD or otherwise.

As we say in the 'burgh, how 'bout them Stillers!?!


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

so you only get D* for the football season? dont you have to buy out the remaining 8 months of your contract every year? seems expensive to me, especially since D* and V* have most of the same channels.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> so you only get D* for the football season? dont you have to buy out the remaining 8 months of your contract every year? seems expensive to me, especially since D* and V* have most of the same channels.


No, you can suspend your service with D* at no cost. I'm not sure how it impacts the contract period - maybe it gets extended for the number of months the service is suspended.

Surprisingly, I got such a great deal with the FiOS triple play that I actually save money this way rather than if I just had D* all the time (and quite a bit of money at that). When I was doing the same thing with E* it was definately expensive, but I wasn't married yet so I thought, "What the hell?"

For me the big differentiator in terms of programming between FiOS and D* is the premium movie channels in HD, just as you cited in your original post.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

Reaper said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think that you're going to get D* to change their stripes when it comes to premium movie channels, in HD or otherwise.


well I won't succeed if I don't try. just emailed D*.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Steve said:


> Actually the QIP 7xxx boxes that are currently being deployed are MPEG-4 and DD 7.1 capable. What's astonishing to me, however, is that they still only have 160 GB hard drives!
> 
> What are they thinking????? /steve


I stand corrected. That's right - the latest generation of QIP boxes do support mpeg-4. I believe that includes both the HD STB and the DVR. From what I understand, the reason these boxes were even created was because of that FCC waiver that I mentioned. It was only a 1 year waiver for 'advanced' boxes - DVRs and HD STBs. As a result, Motorola cobbled together the QIP 7xxx series of boxes pretty much just for Verizon (I don't know who else uses them), which is probably why they still only have 160GB harddrives in them. The waiver on their SD boxes ends this coming July, so they'll need to come out with a new box for SD customers.

Still, they aren't required to replace boxes that have already been deployed, so you're still talking about alot of STBs and DVRs that would need to be swapped out just to go MPEG4. Then you have their 'digital adapters' - these are really the Motorola DCT-700 - it's a QAM only box, which Verizon currently offers. Because it's QAM only, you can't get guide data or VOD on them, and Verizon gave out a whole lot of them when they got rid of their analogs (I got a free one too). I'm pretty darn sure those boxes aren't MPEG4 ready, but they have to stop providing them come July (again, they don't meet that security requirement).


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## ampman337 (Aug 24, 2007)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Only dish / Direct tv has the coverage for it.
> 
> Cable and FiOS is too small for it.


Money talks and you-know-what walks.
It wouldn't surprise me if they bid on it.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Only dish / Direct tv has the coverage for it.
> 
> Cable and FiOS is too small for it.


You're making the assumption that the NFL would look for another exclusive contract for ST. DirecTV had to pay ALOT for that exclusive deal - I don't know if they'd go for it again. Also, you do realize that Comcast (cable company) has more subscribers than either DirecTV or Dish, right? They're nearly 50% larger than DirecTV - why wouldn't they be large enough to bid for it? Verizon, I agree, is too small at this point to go after ST exclusively - although by the time the current contract with DirecTV ends, they may be competitive. They're at ~2 million TV customers now (they added over 300k in the 4th quarter to get them over 1.9Million). Continue at that clip and they could be at 6 - 7 million by the time that contract expires. No, not DirecTV territory, but getting close. Plus Verizon has one thing that DirecTV doesn't - other business lines. Verizon has a huge pile of cash on hand - alot of it is driven by their wireless business - which gives them more flexibility at going after contracts like that than DirecTV does.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

jpl said:


> Verizon has a huge pile of cash on hand - alot of it is driven by their wireless business - which gives them more flexibility at going after contracts like that than DirecTV does.


For sure. Imagine the marketing they would do, if any cell phone company was able to offer exclusive access to Sunday Ticket on an iPhone or Blackberry Curve. /steve


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

got a reponse from D*. same old canned response. "no plans to add those but we have these"

I should write on my next bill "I have no plans to pay you money at this time, however please enjoy this coupon to Burger King."


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

There are several recent threads discussing Sunday Ticket so I'd direct your comments there.



jpl said:


> Also, you do realize that Comcast (cable company) has more subscribers than either DirecTV or Dish, right? They're nearly 50% larger than DirecTV - why wouldn't they be large enough to bid for it?


But you have to keep this in mind: While Comcast may be bigger, they are only availalbe in a small part of the country. If ST was exclusive to Comcast I would never be able to get it because Charter is my cable company. But DirecTV and Dish is available nationwide to *everyone*, just need a clear line of sight to the sats. Thus I'm not locked out of ST just because of where I live. Maybe I need to move down the street to get line of sight, but that wouldn't help me if Comcast had it. I'd have to quit my job and move to another city or state. Not gonna happen.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

I guarantee you Sunday Ticket will NEVER be on another American provider, its D*'s baby, it put them on the map. 

back to premiums please...


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> I guarantee you Sunday Ticket will NEVER be on another American provider, its D*'s baby, it put them on the map.
> 
> back to premiums please...


You don't know that. The NFL is under pressure from the FCC to make their out of market games available to fans through more providers. I expect DirecTV's NFL ST exclusivity to end the next time the contract's up for renewal.

And the premium movie channel discussion is done. Kindly stop kicking a dead horse.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Most hardcore movie buffs have DVRs. With the scheduling on the additional channels often showing the same movies we see on the current channels, how much advantage would be gained? The additional channels largely rely on different timeslots to keep viewers attracted. With a DVR, I don't care if a movie is only on at 3 am on a Wednesday because I will watch it when I want.

Forget channels. How many actual movies are we missing by not having these specific channels? The numbers game can be very enticing. I would rather have more unique content than a few extra channels showing the same things on a different schedule.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Reaper said:


> You don't know that. The NFL is under pressure from the FCC to make their out of market games available to fans through more providers. I expect DirecTV's NFL ST exclusivity to end the next time the contract's up for renewal.
> 
> And the premium movie channel discussion is done. Kindly stop kicking a dead horse.


Actually the "dead horse" is the reason for this thread. Rambling about ST is off-topic.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

the horse isnt dead. its alive and well. thats why this thread has 188 responses.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

gregjones said:


> Actually the "dead horse" is the reason for this thread. Rambling about ST is off-topic.


ST is not off topic since one of the reasons that D* doesn't carry more premium movie channels is because they are focused on being the sports leader.

Also ST is on topic because if many D* customers could go elsewhere and get more premium movie channels _and _ST then they would probably do that.

Let the thread go where it may. Why is that offensive?


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

gregjones said:


> Most hardcore movie buffs have DVRs. With the scheduling on the additional channels often showing the same movies we see on the current channels, how much advantage would be gained? The additional channels largely rely on different timeslots to keep viewers attracted. With a DVR, I don't care if a movie is only on at 3 am on a Wednesday because I will watch it when I want.
> 
> Forget channels. How many actual movies are we missing by not having these specific channels? The numbers game can be very enticing. I would rather have more unique content than a few extra channels showing the same things on a different schedule.


I like to channel surf through movies and find something that catches my fancy. I watch and enjoy many movies this way that I would not record or rent.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> the horse isnt dead. its alive and well. thats why this thread has 188 responses.


...most of them off topic according to some's rather narrow interpretation.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

gotta watch something between games and during the offseason, why not some movies...


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Reaper said:


> Let the thread go where it may. Why is that offensive?


It's no more offensive than productive. All content competes with each other for bandwidth. You could argue the same thing for SD channels or MPEG2 or any number of other items. You could easily say the proliferation of PPV channels in HD has more impact. But going into the likelihood of whether or not ST will be on other providers really doesn't address why more premium channels aren't on DirecTV.

Quite honestly, I don't see where adding the extra premiums would result in many more movies per month. It would result in more movies at any given time (with the exception of things like HBO Comedy). If you channel surf, this would help you. If you like to watch movies from beginning to end, it might not.

AFTERTHOUGHT:
If you want to see how much repetition there is even in HD content, try a keyword search to find all HD movies ("HDTV CCHAN 501 560" Category Movies). Look at how many times the same movies are showing in a few days time.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

gregjones said:


> If you want to see how much repetition there is even in HD content, try a keyword search to find all HD movies ("HDTV CCHAN 501 560" Category Movies). Look at how many times the same movies are showing in a few days time.


You're right of course. I have FiOS so I have the 43 or so HD premium movie channels that they currently carry. They are very repetetive, but as I said I do surf through the movie channels so having more movies to choose from at any given time is attractive to me.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

TomCat4680 said:


> I guarantee you Sunday Ticket will NEVER be on another American provider, its D*'s baby, it put them on the map.
> 
> back to premiums please...


So... if the NFL tells DirecTV 'you can have exclusive rights again, but it'll cost you 50% more than last time...' you really think DirecTV is going to go for it? I don't think so. Having exclusive rights is great - but if the cost outweighs the benefits it's a stupid decision.

As for the premiums... the question has been answered... repeatedly. I'm sorry if you don't like the answer, but it doesn't change it.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> There are several recent threads discussing Sunday Ticket so I'd direct your comments there.
> 
> But you have to keep this in mind: While Comcast may be bigger, they are only availalbe in a small part of the country. If ST was exclusive to Comcast I would never be able to get it because Charter is my cable company. But DirecTV and Dish is available nationwide to *everyone*, just need a clear line of sight to the sats. Thus I'm not locked out of ST just because of where I live. Maybe I need to move down the street to get line of sight, but that wouldn't help me if Comcast had it. I'd have to quit my job and move to another city or state. Not gonna happen.


The point of the post to which I was responding was: cable isn't big enough to make an exclusive grab at NFL ST. I responded by pointing out that there is one cable company that's nearly 50% larger than DirecTV. If size is the determinant, than the poster's point is wrong. Nowhere was there a point made that the NFL wants universal coverage as a condition of the deal. If that's true, then that's another issue. If that is true, though, I think the NFL is begging for Congressional 'oversight' on this - meaning that Congress will force the issue. Remember the big stink they made in 2007 when TBS carried the NL playoffs for baseball? The NFL's position on this, to date, justifying this contract has been: 'yeah, but we provide very game free, over the air, to the local markets.' That's true - and it's held the dogs at bay for a while... but when that contract expires you better believe that these other providers will be throwing their weight around in Washington to make sure it doesn't come to pass again. Will they be successful? No idea.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

if DirecTV loses NFLST exclusivity it loses millions of subscribers who only get them for it. do you really think they want that? theyll pay whatever the NFL asks.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

jpl said:


> The point of the post to which I was responding was: cable isn't big enough to make an exclusive grab at NFL ST. I responded by pointing out that there is one cable company that's nearly 50% larger than DirecTV. If size is the determinant, than the poster's point is wrong. Nowhere was there a point made that the NFL wants universal coverage as a condition of the deal.


As far as sunday ticket goes I think the bigger issue is that the NFL does want it available to the entire US and no cable company can offer that even if they have 50% more subscribers than DirecTV has. The thing people miss in the Sunday ticket analysis is that us home subscribers aren't the only sunday ticket subs and I'd suggest we may not even be the important ones. Sports bars etc all seem to have DirecTV for sunday ticket at least thats the case for all of them I've visited in my area. I think this is big both for DirecTV in terms of actually making a profit on sunday ticket and a big reason why the NFL wants to keep it on a sat provider.


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## beakor (May 29, 2007)

Not to mention the business customers with sports bars / etc for sunday ticket


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

evan_s said:


> I think this is big both for DirecTV in terms of actually making a profit on sunday ticket and a big reason why the NFL wants to keep it on a sat provider.


They also don't want to overly upset the network affiliates.

Anyway, I personally could live without Sunday Ticket, but haven't considered moving to FIOS as their other out-of-market HD sports offerings are far inferior to what I get from DirecTV. And for me, that's more important than extra premium channels.


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## TomCat4680 (Nov 17, 2008)

I think unless you have 10 separate HDTV's each with different games on them, NFLST is a ripoff.


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

TomCat4680 said:


> I think unless you have 10 separate HDTV's each with different games on them, NFLST is a ripoff.


To a Steelers fan living on the west coast, it seems quite reasonable.


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## evan_s (Mar 4, 2008)

It was worth it this year. My wife is a big dolphins fan and she got to watch every game this season and loved it. With out sunday ticket I think we would have gotten 2 or 3 games all year. Gotta keep the wife happy =)


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Looks like we can stick a fork in this thread and call it done. We have a general thread about more HD in 2009 that can be used to continue real discussion, though insults and their replies will be deleted.

Cheers,
Tom


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