# DIRECTV 2010 4th quarter results webcast



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

That time of the year for the 2010 fourth quarter results call, from http://dtv.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=547125



> DIRECTV (NASDAQTV) will host a conference call and Internet webcast to discuss its 2010 fourth quarter financial results, outlook and other forward looking information on Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 9:00 a.m. ET / 6:00 a.m. PT


I'm going to be interested to see how the NLF uptake rate was this year due to not needing NFL-SF to get HD games and if WHDVR is still driving customer growth (if any).


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

For the folks that have nothing better to do, don't forget about the call tomorrow morning.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Be on the lookout for a DIRECTV press release on the results prior to the US stock market opening Wednesday morning.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

The earnings call is 30 minutes before the market opens .. It's doubtful that the press release would come out after the earnings call.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

Here is the release: http://investor.directv.com/releaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=551879



> DIRECTV Fourth Quarter Results Complete Another Record Setting Year for the Company
> 
> DIRECTV Adds 667,000 Net New Subscribers in Q4 or 79% More Than a Year Ago Representing the Largest Quarter in 10 Years
> 
> ...


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

Largest quarter in growth in years. Both net and gross sub additions up. Revenue up. Churn low (meaning the current subs are staying)

I knew they would have have a good quarter, but this is better than I thought.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Ok D* how about spending some of those billions on some new HD channels?


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Ok D* how about spending some of those billions on some new HD channels?


Which is probably one reason why their revenues are up.

Yeah, I would rather have their revenues be a little worse and get more channels in return


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

DodgerKing said:


> Largest quarter in growth in years. Both net and gross sub additions up. Revenue up. Churn low (meaning the current subs are staying)
> 
> I knew they would have have a good quarter, but this is better than I thought.
> 
> Let's see Harsh spin this is a negative way


You mean even with the "disaster" that was the 2010 HD launch where D* fell behind every provider known to man? They did not have AMC HD. Obviously Mad Men in SD toppled the empire and they are now lying through their teeth.

Either that or they have people who know what they are doing.


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## davidatl14 (Mar 24, 2006)

oldfantom said:


> You mean even with the "disaster" that was the 2010 HD launch where D* fell behind every provider known to man? They did not have AMC HD. Obviously Mad Men in SD toppled the empire and they are now lying through their teeth.
> 
> Either that or they have people who know what they are doing.


Absolutely.

Will be interesting to see the "Chicken Littles" that reside here will have to say.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

Hopefully, the usual suspects will understand the difference between profit and profit margin, and understand that D* is running its business pretty well.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

White said for 2010 they had completed 40 retransmission deals but had 80 to do for 2011. That could make for a very interesting 2011 if DIRECTV plays hardball like they started to do in 2010.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

There was a question about Sunday Ticket and how revenue might be replaced if there is a work stoppage ..

The response was there are a lot of factors that will be involved not productive to speculate at this time. Hopeful that we all come together. 25% of gross adds took Sunday ticket in 3Q10 and shouldn't impact things too much in 3Q11.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

RAD said:


> White said for 2010 they had completed 40 retransmission deals but had 80 to do for 2011. That could make for a very interesting 2011 if DIRECTV plays hardball like they started to do in 2010.


Certainly .. DIRECTV is definitely taking a hard stance on costs. This is good to keep our costs down, but makes things like "Where's my channel?" become more common. It's a double edged sword for sure.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

Doug Brott said:


> Certainly .. DIRECTV is definitely taking a hard stance on costs. This is good to keep our costs down, but makes things like "Where's my channel?" become more common. It's a double edged sword for sure.


+1


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

"We want a competitive field with Netflix in whatever we do"


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> "We want a competitive field with Netflix in whatever we do"


That's a pretty high bar to shoot for: good quality, lots of choice, resonable price. I'm glad that DirecTV has set it's sights high.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

This was in regards to costs from Studios, etc. It was more in line with keeping costs down and choices up than directly competing with Netflix.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> 25% of gross adds took Sunday ticket in 3Q10 and shouldn't impact things too much in 3Q11.


With the deal that they were running I'm surprised that number wasn't higher. Wasn't it free Premier for three months for new subscribers who committed to Premier & Sunday Ticket?

The current deals are cash better for the customer than that ... people can choose to spend their new subscriber discount on anything they want (including food and gas) instead of it staying with DirecTV. But I can certainly see how that deal inflated their numbers.

If there is a strike DirecTV will just have other deals ... so I agree that a strike won't affect 2011. The only way I can see DirecTV hurt by Sunday Ticket is if they stopped offering it and other companies still did.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

New HD UI later this year that will ..

More Internet connectivity to go along with Sat Connectivity ..

More On Demand (Old TV, etc.)

2-3 year journey

As industry everyone faced with higher programming costs "that we have to pass along to our customers."

Trying to create a more level playing field going forward


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Telco LTE .. Can you market this product out of the Verizon region?

The pilot tests are going very well. A product focused on rural areas and DIRECTV looking forward to working with all telcos.

Lower activity expected from Telcos this year .. why? It's the natural maturation of the channel. It's not a huge part of the gross adds each year. It's currently about 15% but appears to have stabilized.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Call is over ..


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> *New HD UI later this year* that will ..
> 
> More Internet connectivity to go along with Sat Connectivity ..
> 
> ...


YES!!!


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Along with the HD GUI, just add HD feeds of BBCA, AMC and E! and I will have nothing more to complain about. I will be a 100% satisfied customer.

How about it, D*? Make it happen in 2011.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> This was in regards to costs from Studios, etc. It was more in line with keeping costs down and choices up than directly competing with Netflix.


That makes sense. Their business model and delivery system is so different, that directly competing doesn't make sense. However, keeping their costs down is certainly a good thing.

I think that keeping the choices up will be a key. People will pay for the convinience of having something at their fingertips. However, they need to feel like they are going to be able to find what they want to watch or they will start looking for alternatives.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Good day here in New York!


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## qwsxz (May 12, 2008)

HD GUI announced for this year! Yea!

(So we can plan on this be rolled out when? 2012 2Q?)


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Satelliteracer said:


> Good day here in New York!


OK, so was that a hint you were on the call?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

qwsxz said:


> HD GUI announced for this year! Yea!
> 
> (So we can plan on this be rolled out when? 2012 2Q?)


I suspect Calendar 2011 is much more likely for this labor force.


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## qwsxz (May 12, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I suspect Calendar 2011 is much more likely for this labor force.


Alright...I will be optimistic. I would love to know if they are rolling this out to all HD-DVR models or only shiny new fancy-dancy HR-24s with their faster processors and new fangled hardware.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

qwsxz said:


> HD GUI announced for this year! Yea!
> 
> (So we can plan on this be rolled out when? 2012 2Q?)


Check out this link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1715923&postcount=14


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

If the HD GUI is supposed to be out this year, then we better start testing! Wonder when or if the HD-GUI will be available to cutting edge participants? I would feel honored to help shape the future of DirecTV's interface and provide quality feedback / bug reports as expected.

I wish there was more light shed on HD Channel expansion. Seems there is plenty of growth opportunities in that area when compared to what the competition is doing.

As far as setting the bar as high as Netflix, that is a GOOD sign. I hope one day that DirecTV's network peering would be as good, if not better than Netflix. Currently it seems they are required to throttle downloads to 5-6mbps, regardless of the end user's internet connection speed. Adaptive rate instant streaming would be cool, and possibly eliminate the hard drive requirement, allowing more receivers to join in the VOD revenue stream. Maybe even allow web/iPhone/iPad access, similar to Comcast xfinity TV online, or Verizon FIOS new connected offerings.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

harsh said:


> Check out this link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1715923&postcount=14


Interesting post you picked, the quoted post was the first in the thread, now look at the second post. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1715598#post1715598

This has been talked about for a long time. Anyone here can pick and choose a single post to make their point.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Check out this link:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1715923&postcount=14


way to rain irrelevance on the parade .. "New GUI" had nothing to do with HD in 2008 despite the hope of some of the posters.

HD GUI was announced @ Investor Day 12/2/2010 .. It's not new news. I've even posted it a number of times myself in various threads.

harsh, while you may want to be pointing out that it's taken forever for DIRECTV to create an HD GUI. It's not something that was announced until recently and no time table has actually been set other than "this year." We'll see this one long before 12/31/2011 and we've already seen hints of it on a DIRECTV commercial ....


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

RAD said:


> OK, so was that a hint you were on the call?


Nope, not on the call.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

cypherx said:


> If the HD GUI is supposed to be out this year, then we better start testing! Wonder when or if the HD-GUI will be available to cutting edge participants? I would feel honored to help shape the future of DirecTV's interface and provide quality feedback / bug reports as expected.
> 
> I wish there was more light shed on HD Channel expansion. Seems there is plenty of growth opportunities in that area when compared to what the competition is doing.
> 
> As far as setting the bar as high as Netflix, that is a GOOD sign. I hope one day that DirecTV's network peering would be as good, if not better than Netflix. Currently it seems they are required to throttle downloads to 5-6mbps, regardless of the end user's internet connection speed. Adaptive rate instant streaming would be cool, and possibly eliminate the hard drive requirement, allowing more receivers to join in the VOD revenue stream. Maybe even allow web/iPhone/iPad access, similar to Comcast xfinity TV online, or Verizon FIOS new connected offerings.


What do you mean *START* testing.


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Satelliteracer said:


> What do you mean *START* testing.


Put me on a field trial and I'll never complain about missing HD channels again.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

I think satracer is hinting at HD GUI coming sooner than we think.

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

DodgerKing said:


> I think satracer is hinting at HD GUI coming sooner than we think.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


Q2 (fingers crossed)


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

Well since an HD GUI came out from Mike White's mouth, I'm surprised we don't see an "anticipation" thread, where we can all constantly rehash when it comes out, what features we want to see, constant speculation and other ad naseum conversation, like the HD anticipation and DirecTivo anticipation threads  I look forward to that thread if someone wants to start one.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Certainly .. DIRECTV is definitely taking a hard stance on costs. This is good to *keep our costs down*, but makes things like "Where's my channel?" become more common. It's a double edged sword for sure.


:lol:

Our cost went up this month and we're still saying "where's my channel". 

I got my channel last year, I will gladly eat the cost increase. However, it just sucks for the peeps still waiting on their channel.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

I never said it was to lower costs ..


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

cypherx said:


> Well since an HD GUI came out from Mike White's mouth, I'm surprised we don't see an "anticipation" thread, where we can all constantly rehash when it comes out, what features we want to see, constant speculation and other ad naseum conversation, like the HD anticipation and DirecTivo anticipation threads  I look forward to that thread if someone wants to start one.


It came out of Romulo Pontual's mouth on 12/2/2010 .. Anticipation has already been there done that ... :grin:

source
Choose 'Technology - Romulo Pontual' from the drop down box
Slide #11 ~0:16 into the presentation


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Sounds to me that, unsurprisingly, they were talking about business and cost control in a meeting about their profits. I'd love to see more features but I'm not surprised there was less discussion of that. 

Where I'd like to see the secret hush-hush gameplan... is how to compete on an equal footing with Netflix. I use Netflix every day it seems, either for full-length HD movies or just to stream something in my spare time. It goes wherever I go and has a fixed cost per month for a gigantic library. I'd love it if DIRECTV could do that.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Sounds to me that, unsurprisingly, they were talking about business and cost control in a meeting about their profits. I'd love to see more features but I'm not surprised there was less discussion of that.
> 
> Where I'd like to see the secret hush-hush gameplan... is how to compete on an equal footing with Netflix. I use Netflix every day it seems, either for full-length HD movies or just to stream something in my spare time. It goes wherever I go and has a fixed cost per month for a gigantic library. I'd love it if DIRECTV could do that.


I would sign up for that in a heartbeat, even if I had to wait an extra few days to watch new releases.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

There have been some good hints of the HD GUI in recent ads, but I would rather watch some new HD channels irrespective of the GUI.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Well, yeah, but on the other hand there's nothing wrong with having both HD channels and an HD GUI and I don't think the same team is working on both.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Right...it's not like one takes away from the other.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Satelliteracer said:


> So have the costs of universities, so have a number of industries and it's because of costs.
> 
> With all due respect, the costs of production today (actors, HD, 3D, crews, rates cities are charging for permits, etc) are MUCH higher today then they were 8 years ago. I'm not going to get in a squabble, but take it from someone that has to deal with making stuff in that world and it's not even close.
> 
> ...


Hmm, based on the record profits in the announcement below, explain to me again why the DIRECTV rates had to be raised this year?


> DIRECTV Q4 Revenue Growth of 11% to $6.6 Billion and Operating Profit before Depreciation and Amortization Growth of 13% to $1.7 Billion Cap Record Year
> 
> * DIRECTV Latin America full year revenues grow 25% and operating profit before depreciation and amortization increases 67% driven by strong subscriber growth
> * DIRECTV U.S. 2010 revenues increase 9% fueled by 4.9% ARPU growth while operating profit before depreciation and amortization climbs 11%
> ...


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## Big Dave 09 (Oct 8, 2009)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, yeah, but on the other hand there's nothing wrong with having both HD channels and an HD GUI and I don't think the same team is working on both.


Can you guys break down GUI for me? Seems like a big deal? sorry i just want to know what this is all about?..thanks!


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## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

Big Dave 09 said:


> Can you guys break down GUI for me? Seems like a big deal? sorry i just want to know what this is all about?..thanks!


GUI =

Graphical
User
Interface

It's what you see when your not watching TV... menu's guide, ect.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Big Dave 09 said:


> Can you guys break down GUI for me? Seems like a big deal? sorry i just want to know what this is all about?..thanks!


In a nutshell .. It's the menus you use on your DVR. currently it's standard definition .. Soon it will be High Definition. Either way, it's just the menus used to navigate through the system.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

RACJ2 said:


> Hmm, based on the record profits in the announcement below, explain to me again why the DIRECTV rates had to be raised this year?


:lol:

To get record profits for Q1 of this year. :lol:


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

"RACJ2" said:


> Hmm, based on the record profits in the announcement below, explain to me again why the DIRECTV rates had to be raised this year?


The cost of doing business isn't going to get cheaper. They completed 39 retrans deals last year. They have 80 to get done this year.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> "New GUI" had nothing to do with HD in 2008 despite the hope of some of the posters.


How long after the 2008 announcement was this "New GUI" (the non-HD one) released?

It isn't irrelevant because it speaks to the turnaround time of such a project.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> How long after the 2008 announcement was this "New GUI" (the non-HD one) released?
> 
> It isn't irrelevant because it speaks to the turnaround time of such a project.


Yawn...

The way I look at it... if this is the nit-pick pont you are pulling out of the Q4 report.. then DIRECTV did really *really* good.


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## johnner1999 (Aug 30, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yawn...
> 
> The way I look at it... if this is the nit-pick pont you are pulling out of the Q4 report.. then DIRECTV did really *really* good.


+1


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yawn...
> 
> The way I look at it... if this is the nit-pick point you are pulling out of the Q4 report.. then DIRECTV did really *really* good.


...not to mention the fact that doing it across their fleet of equipment is actually a major challenge.

If it took TiVo 2 1/2 years so far to simply deliver on one HD DVR and GUI....then doing it on the entire HD DVR line at DirecTV is actually comparatively quite impressive.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...not to mention the fact that doing it across their fleet of equipment is actually a major challenge.
> 
> If it took TiVo 2 1/2 years so far to simply deliver on one HD DVR and GUI....then doing it on the entire HD DVR line at DirecTV is actually comparatively quite impressive.


I actually think Tivo has a relatively small programming group, compared with DirecTv. No numbers to back it up, but the time between releases for the two companies are a good indication.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> How long after the 2008 announcement was this "New GUI" (the non-HD one) released?
> 
> It isn't irrelevant because it speaks to the turnaround time of such a project.


I'd actually have to go back and do research on that .. IIRC, the "new" at that time was already done when it was stated. I think it was when left-menu came out to replace some of the tabs. It's all old news and it's irrelevant because it never had anything to do with the HD UI which is what we are talking about now.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

"Earl Bonovich" said:


> Yawn...
> 
> The way I look at it... if this is the nit-pick pont you are pulling out of the Q4 report.. then DIRECTV did really really good.


Especially when you see E* earnings today. Net loss of 150k subs.


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## johnner1999 (Aug 30, 2003)

Davenlr said:


> I actually think Tivo has a relatively small programming group, compared with DirecTv. No numbers to back it up, but the time between releases for the two companies are a good indication.


I 'might' know some one ;-) in a TiVo beta group for its S4 box and from what "this person" has seen you may be correct; tivo makes great stuff BUT they have a small pool of talent. I know on twitter they have been posting job opening for the past month.

Now would this new GUI be just for the hr24 or all H and HR boxes?


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

record earnings but still raised price and very little HD additions and plans to drop channels!

This bubble is going to burst soon!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Satelliteracer said:


> Especially when you see E* earnings today. Net loss of 150k subs.


eek... just got done reading the article...


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

ffemtreed said:


> record earnings but still raised price and very little HD additions and plans to drop channels!
> 
> This bubble is going to burst soon!




Of course they raised prices. It isn't getting cheaper for them to do business...it's getting more expenses. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that "this bubble is going to burst" anytime soon. As has already been said, 39 retrans deals completed last year (one still being completed) and 80 to complete this year. DirecTV found a winning formula to weather the storm and apparently Dish did not.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> Especially when you see E* earnings today. Net loss of 150k subs.





Earl Bonovich said:


> eek... just got done reading the article...


Yikes...



> NEW YORK, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Satellite television provider Dish Network Corp's (DISH.O) posted bigger-than-expected subscriber losses for the fourth quarter as many customers canceled their service after a dispute with Fox Network in October blacked out sports programs.
> 
> The second-largest U.S. satellite TV provider lost 156,000 subscribers during the quarter. Kaufman Brothers analyst Todd Mitchell was expecting Dish to add 45,000 subscribers.
> 
> ...


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Hoosier205 said:


> Yikes...


DirecTV and FiOS FTTH Internet, the perfect combination. Dish on the roof, Fiber ONT in the wiring closet.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> Especially when you see E* earnings today. Net loss of 150k subs.


Ouch!


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

RACJ2 said:


> Hmm, based on the record profits in the announcement below, explain to me again why the DIRECTV rates had to be raised this year?


D* announced 4th Quarter earnings yesterday. The rate increase didn't start until February 10th of this year. D*'s costs go up every year and this year is no exception as mentioned by Mike White yesterday with Retrans and other agreements coming up.

The rate increases are to keep pace with those costs D* has to incur for 2011. The earnings report was for Q4 2010. One action is to cover costs for the future, the other action is reporting on the past.

I'd love to see all the MSO's out there that did not raise rates in one form or another....I know of none. They're all hit by the same largest expense on their balance sheet...programming costs which rise each year and thus need to take their own rates up to cover for the upcoming year when those increased costs are realized.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> I actually think Tivo has a relatively small programming group, compared with DirecTv. No numbers to back it up, but the time between releases for the two companies are a good indication.


D* is in a much better financial position than TiVo. As a result, they have more money to throw at projects. They also probably pay their programmers more than TiVo (this is just my assumption). Therefore they have more and better paid people than TiVo, and can get more things done in less time (and hopefully with better quality).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Satelliteracer said:


> Especially when you see E* earnings today. Net loss of 150k subs.


Earnings are money. DISH Network operating income was up 39.9% 2009 to 2010 ... their net income was up 55% 2009 to 2010. Subscriber count is just a small part of their balance sheet.

(Make your own joke - but DISH Network remains a profitable company.)


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> Earnings are money. DISH Network operating income was up 39.9% 2009 to 2010 ... their net income was up 55% 2009 to 2010. Subscriber count is just a small part of their balance sheet.
> 
> (Make your own joke - but DISH Network remains a profitable company.)


It's a sinking ship and customers are scurrying away. This is nothing...just wait until they have to shut off those DVR's.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

James Long said:


> Earnings are money. DISH Network operating income was up 39.9% 2009 to 2010 ... their net income was up 55% 2009 to 2010. Subscriber count is just a small part of their balance sheet.
> 
> (Make your own joke - but DISH Network remains a profitable company.)


So, a smaller customer base is paying a higher ARPU that is going to Dish's income and not all of those increases as because of increases in programming costs?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> It's a sinking ship and customers are scurrying away. This is nothing...just wait until they have to shut off those DVR's.


Over 3 million customers scurried _TO_ DISH Network last year. One company that lost more customers than DISH was - DirecTV. 3.4 million customers "scurried away".

The point is, it isn't all about customer counts. It is about remaining profitable for next year. Both companies are doing that.

And if one is going to use the word earnings one should talk about money ... unless that is an admission the corporate view of customers is "there are people we can squeeze for more money". How's that ARPU doing, DirecTV? $96 per customer per month in 4Q 2010???



RAD said:


> So, a smaller customer base is paying a higher ARPU that is going to Dish's income and not all of those increases as because of increases in programming costs?


No. DISH ARPU remains about the same. So does DirecTV's ... about the same as last year just much higher.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

I was waiting for the ultimate spin meister to show up.

It is simple. One company did good, the other did bad. One added more subs than they lost, the other lost more subs than they gained (for more than one consecutive quarter).

Of course the bottom line is profits. They do need to address sub losses. Without enough subs profits will eventually go down

Companies cannot keep losing customers and expect to profit. Eventually the will meet the max loss allowed to profit. They cannot make money if they have no subs. 

Also remember that when they do not sign up as many subscribers they do not have the added cost installation and equipment (which eats into their profits). New subs cost these companies. It takes a while before they can profit off of them. This too has a max to where the profits they no longer collect from existing subs that leave do not match that in which they save from not signing up new subs.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

DodgerKing said:


> I was waiting for the ultimate spin meister to show up.
> 
> It is simple. One company did good, the other did bad. One added more subs than they lost, the other lost more subs than they gained (for more than one consecutive quarter).
> 
> ...


+1

Let's also note that he tried to challenge Satelliteracer on this topic. Someone who obviously knows far more about this.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

James Long said:


> Over 3 million customers scurried _TO_ DISH Network last year. One company that lost more customers than DISH was - DirecTV. 3.4 million customers "scurried away".
> 
> The point is, it isn't all about customer counts. It is about remaining profitable for next year. Both companies are doing that.
> 
> ...


What were the percentages though? There's a reason that churn is based on %. It's a standard for all companies that have MRC even cell phones.

As for your quote it's more apt to read "We don't market to the bottom side of the economy and therefor our customers have the ability to pay more." Are you really trying to say that if DISH posted an ARPU up to that ammount you wouldn't say it was a success for them? You can't have it both ways.

This is about DIRECTV earnings for Q4 10 and so far they are the most successful company posted out of all the MVPD's. Any shareholder, which these are about not to subscribers, should be very happy. In fact if people had spent half their bill on stock they would be even happier because they would have ended up making money even with the cost of their service involved.

Either company will remain profitible even if they lost half of their customers. They would make up the loss with cutting of operational and marketing budgetts. The % of profit they make would be the same because it's in the books they would just make less overall.

So for investors DIRECTV clearly beat expectations and well out performed DISH because they cannot prove to be consistent in their subscirber base.

If you're not an investor in either company then you really shouldn't care which service you think is better but which makes you more money. People who invest in companies though usually try and do business with those companies as well though.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> Let's also note that he tried to challenge Satelliteracer on this topic. Someone who obviously knows far more about this.


A person who confused customer count with revenue?

The two can be correlated - but increasing customers doesn't mean increasing revenue. Customers are expensive. Just look at average subscriber acquisition costs.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> A person who confused customer count with revenue?
> 
> The two can be correlated - but increasing customers doesn't mean increasing revenue. Customers are expensive. Just look at average subscriber acquisition costs.


Really James? You actually want to go toe to toe with him? :lol::lol::lol: Don't get in over your head.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

James, losing customers is never a good thing .. If DIRECTV starts losing customers, they need to be concerned as well. Spin how you like, but if DISH loses customers again this upcoming quarter, then things will really start to get interesting.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

I think they have lost customers in three consecutive quarters now.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

James Long said:


> A person who confused customer count with revenue?
> 
> The two can be correlated - but increasing customers doesn't mean increasing revenue. Customers are expensive. Just look at average subscriber acquisition costs.


More customers = more gross revenue

SAC can reduce a companies profit, which has happened to both companies last year, but not revenue.

Revenue is money coming in without factoring in costs. It sounds like the person you quoted wasn't the one who had something confused.

So while your posts are entertaining in this thread they're not accurate nor relevant. Just out of curiousity though which one of these guys are you?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> James, losing customers is never a good thing .. If DIRECTV starts losing customers, they need to be concerned as well. Spin how you like, but if DISH loses customers again this upcoming quarter, then things will really start to get interesting.


Sorry Doug, but I've been here longer than a couple of years. I remember 2008. If you want to talk bad years for DISH go back to 2008.

Anyways ... I commented because DirecTV employees and supporters seemed more interested in discussing DISH than their own company. Perhaps if they look back on DirecTV's history more than a year they will see just how bad 2010 was for DirecTV. They are supposed to be beating themselves ... beating a smaller company isn't the same victory.

And since people have dropped from discussing the topic in to discussing the posters there really isn't any more to reply to.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

I agree. Let's get away from discussing the sinking ship that is Dish Network and focus on the success story that is DirecTV.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> I agree. Let's get away from discussing the sinking ship that is Dish Network and focus on the success story that is DirecTV.


I think you're the Spin Doctor on the left.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Satelliteracer said:


> D* announced 4th Quarter earnings yesterday. The rate increase didn't start until February 10th of this year. D*'s costs go up every year and this year is no exception as mentioned by Mike White yesterday with Retrans and other agreements coming up.
> 
> The rate increases are to keep pace with those costs D* has to incur for 2011. The earnings report was for Q4 2010. One action is to cover costs for the future, the other action is reporting on the past.
> 
> I'd love to see all the MSO's out there that did not raise rates in one form or another....I know of none. They're all hit by the same largest expense on their balance sheet...programming costs which rise each year and thus need to take their own rates up to cover for the upcoming year when those increased costs are realized.


This makes sense when you look at it as a single year, but when you look at the yearly trends, DTV posts record profits every year and raises rates every year. If the price raise last year was just to keep up with ongoing costs for the year they shouldn't be posting record profits.

I understand that DTV is a corporation to make money, all I am saying is there is a fine line between healthy profit and customer satisfaction. DTV is starting to flirt with that line. One good aggressive advertising campaign by DISH attacking the lack of national HD might swing a significant number of users.

PS -- off topic but I think DTV has abandoned HD in favor of 3D because they believe they have enough HD to maintain their market share. I think its going to eventually bite them in their behinds.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

James Long said:


> Sorry Doug, but I've been here longer than a couple of years. I remember 2008. If you want to talk bad years for DISH go back to 2008.
> 
> Anyways ... I commented because DirecTV employees and supporters seemed more interested in discussing DISH than their own company. Perhaps if they look back on DirecTV's history more than a year they will see just how bad 2010 was for DirecTV. They are supposed to be beating themselves ... beating a smaller company isn't the same victory.
> 
> And since people have dropped from discussing the topic in to discussing the posters there really isn't any more to reply to.


They did beat themself:

DIRECTV Adds 667,000 Net New Subscribers in Q4 or 79% More Than a Year Ago Representing the Largest Quarter in 10 Years

DIRECTV U.S. 2010 revenues increase 9% fueled by 4.9% ARPU growth while operating profit before depreciation and amortization climbs 11%


Hoosier205 said:


> I agree. Let's get away from discussing the sinking ship that is Dish Network and focus on the success story that is DirecTV.





James Long said:


> I think you're the Spin Doctor on the left.


Sounds like a tale of 2 princes.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> PS -- off topic but I think DTV has abandoned HD in favor of 3D because they believe they have enough HD to maintain their market share. I think its going to eventually bite them in their behinds.


More HD is coming .. Some not too far off in fact .. Some HD is still waiting for both sides to agree and I think everyone can tell that DIRECTV is not just lying down and taking what the content providers are offering. One only has to look at the recent HBO and Versus adventures to come to that conclusion.

The good news is that DIRECTV really provides a significant amount of HD. In fact, in my personal case, there is not one single HD channel that is missing .. BUT .. I realize that is not true for everyone here. Still, even in the cases where things are missing you have at least 90% of the channels you watch (my guess). It's not like missing one or two or three channels that are particularly endearing to you means that you are missing every channel that is endearing to you.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Shades228 said:


> They did beat themself:
> DIRECTV Adds 667,000 Net New Subscribers in Q4 or 79% More Than a Year Ago Representing the Largest Quarter in 10 Years


Do you realize that Q4 2009 was the worst fourth quarter DirecTV has had in at least five years? Only 119k net adds with 136k net the quarter before and 100k net each of the two quarters after. I expect their Q1 2011 and Q2 2011 increases will also be huge ... compared to one of the worst quarters DirecTV has had (1Q and 2Q 2010).

It was an exceptionally good quarter for DirecTV.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

James Long said:


> Do you realize that Q4 2009 was the worst fourth quarter DirecTV has had in at least five years? Only 119k net adds with 136k net the quarter before and 100k net each of the two quarters after. I expect their Q1 2011 and Q2 2011 increases will also be huge ... compared to one of the worst quarters DirecTV has had (1Q and 2Q 2010).
> 
> It was an exceptionally good quarter for DirecTV.


And yet, their worst quarter still had a net gain in subs.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

For those who are taking some pleasure in in Dish's loss of subs, or feeling defensive about it, just remember that we all (meaning HD TV watchers, including cable and FIOS) will be losers if they don't survive—even prosper.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

All I can say about Dish: To every thing, there is a season and to every time a purpose. I'm not saying Dish's time is up, only that those who revel in the bad fortune of another should remember that sooner or later, such fortunes will come to you.


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## ffemtreed (Jan 30, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> More HD is coming .. Some not too far off in fact .. Some HD is still waiting for both sides to agree


I have been hearing that for awhile now, its starting to get old. Its time to put up or shut up.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I have been hearing that for awhile now, its starting to get old. Its time to put up or shut up.


you haven't heard it often from me ..


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> you haven't heard it often from me ..


There's certain members here who when speak, I listen. Doug's one of them.


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

Laxguy said:


> For those who are taking some pleasure in in Dish's loss of subs, or feeling defensive about it, just remember that we all (meaning HD TV watchers, including cable and FIOS) will be losers if they don't survive-even prosper.





Stuart Sweet said:


> All I can say about Dish: To every thing, there is a season and to every time a purpose. I'm not saying Dish's time is up, only that those who revel in the bad fortune of another should remember that sooner or later, such fortunes will come to you.


I don't think many are taking pleasure. We are simply discussing the ugly truth and questing the spin of others.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Laxguy said:


> For those who are taking some pleasure in in Dish's loss of subs, or feeling defensive about it, just remember that we all (meaning HD TV watchers, including cable and FIOS) will be losers if they don't survive-even prosper.


Both companies are doing fine on the survive and prosper side of the balance sheet. Both have posted much better quarters and much worse quarters.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Let's just leave Dish in the dust bin. DirecTV outperformed Dish in glorious fashion. No spin needed. Perhaps they should spend less time with lawyers and more time focusing on keeping customers.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

James Long said:


> Earnings are money. DISH Network operating income was up 39.9% 2009 to 2010 ... their net income was up 55% 2009 to 2010. Subscriber count is just a small part of their balance sheet.
> 
> (Make your own joke - but DISH Network remains a profitable company.)


Fair point. I was using more of an industry general term on their Earnings Report to Wall Street rather than singling out that actual piece.

You are correct, their earnings are up, their subs (both gross and net) were interesting, to say the least. Wasn't trying to start a pissing contest.  I suspect earnings were up because they incurred less SAC (less gross ads), which is definitely helpful in that context.

At any rate, that's what I meant when I said earnings...it was the earnings report. I hadn't seen the $$ this morning when I posted that, only the net and gross subs for the quarter. Interesting data to be sure, especially on the heels of Verizon and D* in the last two weeks.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> All I can say about Dish: To every thing, there is a season and to every time a purpose. I'm not saying Dish's time is up, only that those who revel in the bad fortune of another should remember that sooner or later, such fortunes will come to you.


Agree....Karma is not something to play with.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> I have been hearing that for awhile now, its starting to get old. Its time to put up or shut up.


More HD is coming, it most certainly hasn't been abandoned.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

DodgerKing said:


> It is simple. One company did good...


Actually, *neither *company did good.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Actually, *neither *company did good.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> I agree. Let's get away from discussing the sinking ship that is Dish Network and focus on the success story that is DirecTV.


Sinking ship??? I'm a longtime DirecTV customer, and even *I* don't believe DISH is sinking.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> Sinking ship??? I'm a longtime DirecTV customer, and even *I* don't believe DISH is sinking.


Yes, but you said that neither company did well. DirecTV did extremely well.


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## Tulsacoker (Jun 1, 2010)

Lord Vader said:


> Sinking ship??? I'm a longtime DirecTV customer, and even *I* don't believe DISH is sinking.


I don't either.....but it is taking on some water


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> Yes, but you said that neither company did well.


No I didn't. I never said that.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Lord Vader said:


> No I didn't. I never said that.


Alright, then what were you saying?



Lord Vader said:


> Actually, *neither *company did good.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Hoosier205 said:


> Yes, but you said that neither company did well. DirecTV did extremely well.


DirecTV: 3.4% less gross adds than 2009. 29.3% less net adds than 2009. 36.5% more profit than 2009.
Are you a shareholder? (I'm not - in either company.)


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## DodgerKing (Apr 28, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> Alright, then what were you saying?


He was correcting my grammar


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> Alright, then what were you saying?


I said that neither company did good, which is correct.



DodgerKing said:


> He was correcting my grammar


Who, me???


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lord Vader said:


> I said that neither company did good, which is correct.


They might have done some good; we don't know, do we, and who are we to judge??:lol: Anyhow, I believe what was meant before the smart replies came along was that one company did well, and the other not so. But it didn't do bad.:nono2:

And all right is always two words. :nono:


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Neither did bad, or even badly.


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## oldfantom (Mar 13, 2006)

James Long said:


> Both companies are doing fine on the survive and prosper side of the balance sheet. Both have posted much better quarters and much worse quarters.


I was going to point out that CEO's can be fired when they don't grow the business. Surviving is not generally in the job description for CEOs (Balmer may be an exception). Then I looked up the ownership information. Unless Charlie gets divorced, you are riding that horse 'til it drops. So your point is very true, things probably won't get interesting. They will just move in the same motion adding or dropping clients as they do. We should not truly expect that retrans agreements will become any better for Charlie in the future. Autocracies tend to be predictable if nothing else.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

James Long said:


> Do you realize that Q4 2009 was the worst fourth quarter DirecTV has had in at least five years? Only 119k net adds with 136k net the quarter before and 100k net each of the two quarters after. I expect their Q1 2011 and Q2 2011 increases will also be huge ... compared to one of the worst quarters DirecTV has had (1Q and 2Q 2010).
> 
> It was an exceptionally good quarter for DirecTV.


Last year Diretv purposely stated they where scaling back on promotions to decrease adds in subs.. Did Dish say that about this past year? I don't know.. I think companies always have ebs and flows.. And I think the dispute with Fox hurt Dish way more than they expected.. Hopefully, it worked out for them so that they saved some long term dollars with a better deal... And because this is dish, you have to caution if thats a one time event, or start of more larger channel dropping events which could continue to drive customers away.. They need a better balance in these negotiations.

I do not ever want dish to fail.. Without Dish, Directv would only have real competition from FIOS, and they aren't big enough to worry about, and cable juts sucks to much right now, and without good competition Directv may not continue to add channels and services...

I do think Dish should see the writing on the wall and realize, that scaling back on spending is ok for a short term profit increase, but really kills you if you do it for to long because it will truly turn from flat new sales to negative new sales...


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

sigma1914 said:


> There's certain members here who when speak, I listen. Doug's one of them.


+1. You are too.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

...just (finally) watched the recording of the CNBC show with Mike White today.

That female interviewer was one very pushy gal - almost obsessed on one and only one issue - streaming content. At one point, she kept repeating herself on that topic regardless of what Mike White said.

WOW...just WOW.


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

Satelliteracer said:


> D* announced 4th Quarter earnings yesterday. The rate increase didn't start until February 10th of this year. D*'s costs go up every year and this year is no exception as mentioned by Mike White yesterday with Retrans and other agreements coming up.
> 
> The rate increases are to keep pace with those costs D* has to incur for 2011. The earnings report was for Q4 2010. One action is to cover costs for the future, the other action is reporting on the past.
> 
> I'd love to see all the MSO's out there that did not raise rates in one form or another....I know of none. They're all hit by the same largest expense on their balance sheet...programming costs which rise each year and thus need to take their own rates up to cover for the upcoming year when those increased costs are realized.


I understand costs are going up and you do need to stay in front of them. And I'm familiar with financial results and the fact that they were for last year. Basically, it shows that your overall revenues were much higher then your expenses last year. Maybe I should have asked if last years increase was really necessary. Can we agree that they might not have been? Lets see how the profits shake out in 2011. If its another record year, it will show that the rate increase this year wasn't required to cover additional costs either.

The other half of the story is that DIRECTV is a public company. And like most (all) public companies, driving results for stockholders is the most important goal. And the main reason that is important is that the upper management gets compensated with stock options. They are major stockholders and can make millions off the options when they sell them. So that is why there is a big push to increase revenues as high above costs as possible.

Don't take this the wrong way, its just reality. If upper management in most any company have a shot at becoming billionaires, they are going to do their best to reach that plateau. I still feel DIRECTV has the best product right now and is the best option for me. And they haven't priced themselves out of the market, yet.


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## QuickDrop (Jul 21, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...just (finally) watched the recording of the CNBC show with Mike White today.
> 
> That female interviewer was one very pushy gal - almost obsessed on one and only one issue - streaming content. At one point, she kept repeating herself on that topic regardless of what Mike White said.
> 
> WOW...just WOW.


Damn pushy women! When will they learn their place?

I thought TV Everywhere was supposed to be a big deal.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...just (finally) watched the recording of the CNBC show with Mike White today.
> 
> That female interviewer was one very pushy gal - almost obsessed on one and only one issue - streaming content. At one point, she kept repeating herself on that topic regardless of what Mike White said.
> 
> WOW...just WOW.


Must have been that time of month.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

QuickDrop said:


> Damn pushy women! When will they learn their place?
> 
> I thought TV Everywhere was supposed to be a big deal.


There's more than one way to skin that cat.


MysteryMan said:


> Must have been that time of month.


It's sweeps week already?


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## ShawnL25 (Mar 2, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> More HD is coming, it most certainly hasn't been abandoned.


Is more HD expected in the next 90 days?


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

ShawnL25 said:


> Is more HD expected in the next 90 days?


Ya know if he could have said, he would have already. 

Mike


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

ShawnL25 said:


> Is more HD expected in the next 90 days?


You missed it huh? 

Two new HD channels launched this week ()

DIRECTV has added HBO and Cinemax programs in High-Definition to its Video On Demand lineup.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

ShawnL25 said:


> Is more HD expected in the next 90 days?


Yes


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

How about the next 30 days?


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## johnner1999 (Aug 30, 2003)

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes


If you could say, are they nationals or premiums. TIA


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## cypherx (Aug 27, 2010)

I hope GOOD popular HD comes to DirecTV. I can't stand how Cable puts HD channels out in no mans land (like higher than channel 500). If you have guests over, kids, most woman, un techy people - they always start on Ch 2 and scroll up from there. That means they watch SD on an HD TV. If you tell them to put it on the HD channel, they look at you like you have two heads. For this reason alone I despise Cable. So once DirecTV gets more HD, I'll start recommending it to people and trying to refer them. I LOVE how DirecTV uses the same numbering system and can hide SD duplicates.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

cypherx said:


> I LOVE how DirecTV uses the same numbering system and can hide SD duplicates.


+1

Visited my sister this weekend. She has some local muni cable service. The guide was slow and the navigation unintuitive (to me at least). Also had the HD channels in the 1000+ range. Made me appreciate all over again how good I have it with D*.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

For those folks who want to actually read the meeting content...

RAD has graciously provided nice "high point" information and the actual report link in a new thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=190618


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## Coca Cola Kid (Jul 19, 2009)

johnner1999 said:


> If you could say, are they nationals or premiums. TIA


Premiums are national, anyone can get them nationwide. I think you mean "*basic* or premium"?


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes


Wonderful.

Can I expand the question slightly, and ask you this:

*Is more BASIC HD coming in the next 90 days?*

(And with BASIC I mean channels only available to Choice, Choice Extra, or Choice Ultimate, without having to purchase a separate premium package or extra package).

Thanks


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