# ASK DBSTalk: What is expected from the next software revision?



## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Hi everyone, 
I just got my 921 on Friday. I haven't had any reboots yet. However, I cannot watch tv on this receiver unless it's HD. SD is unbearable. When are they fixing the stretch and zoom modes? I can deal with the other issues, but this one. Please let me know, otherwise I am forced to return it. Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Anthony


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

On the tech forum last week, it was said that the next software release (still scheduled for Friday the 20th) is supposed to fix some of the remaining OTA issues, the random rebooting issues and the 16x9 stretch issue. Nothing was said about the other aspect ratios, and I honestly don't think that the stretch is going to be fixed either. Hopefully, I'll be able to say differently tomorrow about the stretch.

If you want to watch SD with the 921, connect it via svideo, and change the display settings to 4x3#1 (if you're watching on a 16x9 television).


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Mark thanks for the quick reply. Are you expecting some answer from Dish by tommorow?


Mark Lamutt said:


> On the tech forum last week, it was said that the next software release (still scheduled for Friday the 20th) is supposed to fix some of the remaining OTA issues, the random rebooting issues and the 16x9 stretch issue. Nothing was said about the other aspect ratios, and I honestly don't think that the stretch is going to be fixed either. Hopefully, I'll be able to say differently tomorrow about the stretch.
> 
> If you want to watch SD with the 921, connect it via svideo, and change the display settings to 4x3#1 (if you're watching on a 16x9 television).


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

In a manner of speaking I guess. I'm expecting the beta of the release software tomorrow for final testing before Friday.


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## DenR (Jun 6, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> In a manner of speaking I guess. I'm expecting the beta of the release software tomorrow for final testing before Friday.


Not much time to do testing before the release!


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## Florindi (Feb 17, 2004)

Mark,
I am curious. How do you load software to only specific individuals? Are you installing software via rs232? Anyway to get a copy of the beta? My wife is complaining about the money I spent on this unit. She gave in to the fact that we can record TV if we are not home, etc etc. However, she was used to the picture quality of the 6000. She is pissed off now because of the cost of this unit and with picture quality that sucks. In regards to your fix, well I have a plasma and all my wires are in the wall. I don't want to run an s-video cable across the floor, where it will be exposed. 


Mark Lamutt said:


> In a manner of speaking I guess. I'm expecting the beta of the release software tomorrow for final testing before Friday.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

DenR - the beta testers aren't the first ones to test the new software releases - there's a first level before the beta group even sees it.

Florindi - that's all on Dish's end. You have to be a beta tester to get the software. All of these issues will get fixed, it will just require a little patience.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Florindi said:


> Hi everyone,
> I just got my 921 on Friday. I haven't had any reboots yet. However, I cannot watch tv on this receiver unless it's HD. SD is unbearable. When are they fixing the stretch and zoom modes?


You could also try 480p for SD material. You might also want to try and get used to normal or grey bar mode. No matter how you slice it, forcing SD material to wide screen is going to distort and add artifacting to the image.

(bottom line it to avoing the scalers in the 921 as much as possible)


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## buist (Nov 12, 2002)

I must be unique ;-) I am not having any problem with the scaling (perhaps my TV is doing the adjusting). For viewing HD content, I select 16X9 (output is 1080i). When I view SD content, I change to 4x3 #1 (keeping everything else the same). This works fine (other than the fact that the picture looks much worse than HD).. My ideal would be to have 2 settings - one for HD content and one for SD. The 921 would switch between the aspect ratios automatically..

Tim


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

You're not unique, Buist, you're simply doing what a number of people are doing as a temporary work-around. The fact that you believe it to be acceptable is disheartening, though; in my mind, I shouldn't have to lie to the 921 about my screen size (since it is a 16:9 television) every time I want to watch 4:3 content in SD mode.

If the stretch modes all worked correctly, you would leave the television display aspect ratio set to 16:9, and then you'd press the SD/HD button, and pick the appropriate input on your television, and you would have SD content viewed correctly with the aspect ratio set to "NORMAL". Right now, this screws the image up, so folks are lying to the 921 about their screen size to get things to work correctly, but really, who likes having to go into the setup menu every time one changes channels?


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## 928gt (Dec 17, 2003)

>but really, who likes having to go into the setup menu every >time one changes channels?

Kind of like getting out of your car and changing your tire size everytime you change gears ... NOT ACCEPTABLE !!

Dave


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

Maybe I'm missing something. I leave mine in HD mode all the time, unless I want to use PIP features of the 921 or my set that aren't available in HD mode. I am using the DVI output at 720p to a 50" Samsung DLP (16x9). Switching it to SD mode and using S-video degrades the PQ considerably. That may be because the S-video runs through my A/V receiver (Kenwood VR-6060), but I don't go into the setup menu or change aspect ratio at all. So I have black bars on the sides. Big deal, it's still equivalent to a 4:3 AR set much larger than my old 32".

-Chris


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

4HiMarks, a number of folks have reported that watching 4:3 SD over the S-video or composite connection looks better than watching 4:3 SD upconverted to 1080i over the component connection. I personally haven't tried this myself, since I refuse to go into the setup menu and tell the 921 that I have a 4:3 TV (since I don't), and otherwise the image gets totally borked (due to a current bug).

In any case, yes, of course, the whole thing is about not having to go to extraordinary measures just to watch television. Who wants to have to switch to SD mode and switch inputs on the television? In the ideal world, the 4:3 SD over the component or DVI outputs would like identical (or better) than sending it over the SD outputs. But if this isn't possible, it's a compromise for folks who really demand good SD picture quality and can get it via the S-video or composite connections.


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## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

To follow up, I compared viewing the same 4x3 SD content (local OTA UHF channel) via the following setups:

1) HD mode, 720p, 16x9 from the 921 over DVI
2) SD mode, 480i, 16x9 from the 921 over S-video
3) SD mode, 480i, 4x3 #1 from the 921 over S-video
4) SD mode, 480i, 4x3 #2 from the 921 over S-video
5) straight from my antenna bypassing the 921 completely

I did not try HD mode at 1080i as my Sammy is 720p native, so I saw no point to upconvert a 480i signal to 1080i and then do a side conversion to 720p. I tried all aspect options available from both my set and the 921 in each. Setup 1) with "Normal" aspect (what I've been doing until now) looked marginally better that anything else, but they all looked pretty bad compared to an HD source. 

-Chris


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Everyone, I'm telling you this now - if you don't get a new software release this Friday like was said on the Tech Forum, there is a VERY GOOD REASON for it. That's all I'm going to say about it right now...


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Everyone, I'm telling you this now - if you don't get a new software release this Friday like was said on the Tech Forum, there is a VERY GOOD REASON for it. That's all I'm going to say about it right now...


Bummer!


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Everyone, I'm telling you this now - if you don't get a new software release this Friday like was said on the Tech Forum, there is a VERY GOOD REASON for it. That's all I'm going to say about it right now...


Mine is at Dish for Blue Line repair--maybe they will put the fix on there (assuming it's actually ready). Based on the ominous warning, I suppose we should assume that there are major flaws with the beta... :nono2: :nono2:


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

Dish programmers continue to prove their total incompetence.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Everyone, I'm telling you this now - if you don't get a new software release this Friday like was said on the Tech Forum, there is a VERY GOOD REASON for it. That's all I'm going to say about it right now...


Did anyone REALLY expect to get a release this Friday?

Let's see, a few more days to get beta test reports, then 1-2 weeks to swat the new bugs....


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## metallicafreak (Jan 20, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Everyone, I'm telling you this now - if you don't get a new software release this Friday like was said on the Tech Forum, there is a VERY GOOD REASON for it. That's all I'm going to say about it right now...


Well,
I guess that means no update this friday then....
FREAK!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

leemathre said:


> Dish programmers continue to prove their total incompetence.


That is an incredibly unfair statement in this case. What this really proves is the competence of some of the beta team to find most of these big issues so that you never have to see them.

And the fact is that the reason that I left that message yesterday got found and fixed last night. It was directly related to a feature that the users here specifically asked for.


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

I'm sorry that you feel the comment was unfair. These programmers have had well over a year to resolve problems that are very easy to reproduce. I applaud the beta testers for dicovering the problem, however, I still believe that competent programmers would have put out a better product in the first place. I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect a stable product for the price we have all paid for this unit.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Bob, I'm going to split your post out into another thread in the Dish DVR forum.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

leemathre said:


> I'm sorry that you feel the comment was unfair. These programmers have had well over a year to resolve problems that are very easy to reproduce. I applaud the beta testers for dicovering the problem, however, I still believe that competent programmers would have put out a better product in the first place. I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect a stable product for the price we have all paid for this unit.


You know, I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect a $1000 product to work better than the 921 does, and I certainly understand the frustration with it. I'm going through just about everything the rest of you are with my 921 (and a few other things as well that you'll never see).

But, what possible constructive value does your comment have? I don't see flinging insults having any bearing on getting the bugs resolved faster.


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## leemathre (Sep 25, 2003)

You are absolutely correct. My remarks had no constructive value whatsoever.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Hey look at the nightmare many early adopters who bought HDTVs had to go through several years ago..... They paid $12,000 for monitors which also had several issues. Cost isn't the reason to expect a solid unit, anything with a Version 1.0 after it is suspect. I normally wait until the third generation to get ANY technology, but the 921 is the first time I have broke this rule because of the compellig advantages when it is working properly.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Well, I just got word that we may still be on track for a Friday release date.


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## chief (Dec 18, 2003)

Mark, I was fortunate enough to get one of the first 921's. I told my DISH dealer to keep it, hook it up on a widescreen HDTV and get smart on it before he brought it over to me (I gave him this URL!). He's still got it because it's not ready to support what I need (OTA HD and HGTV 4:3 without distortion). That's enough history. What I'm really posting for is to THANK YOU for your efforts, patience, and fairness. Keep up the great work because it is very much appreciated.

Steve


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## paulcdavis (Jan 22, 2004)

If we do get a new release Friday, and it has a fix for the duplicate OTA channels, does anyone think we should delete all the OTA channels before downloading the new SW, then re-boot and add the OTAs back in, or do nothing and hope that the fix cleans up the existing OTA channel list?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I don't think that the forthcoming version will have a fix for duplicate OTA channels, but I could be wrong...it might make it in.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

If a new bug got introduced as a result of a new feature/functionality change we specifically asked for here, then I will apologize on all of our behalfs for complaining about bugs that we indirectly introduced (by expanding the work scope).

However, we would still like to see the new feature added, I'm sure


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Um, yeah. We definitely want this feature added, because it's potentially the beginning for several other features that we all VERY much want added.


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## metallicafreak (Jan 20, 2004)

Mark,
Thanks for going the extra mile man. I am very excited. I hope Friday is as planned
FREAK!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

You and me both, Freak. You and me both. 

But, if the software doesn't make it on Friday, almost certainly it will make it next week.


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## markcollins (Jan 27, 2004)

I HOPE IT has a fix for the need of seperate aspect ratio setups for HD and SD outputs without having to go into the menu function every time you want to switch from HD to SD.AS for as getting use to grey bars,well my television is too costly to burn the phosphors for a poor product design and software programming to cost ratio.I do think a little show of dissatisfaction for the product or service you pay for when subpar is appropriate.Not nonconstructive criticism though.How else will a vendor know if his customers are satisfied or recommending their product.Right now I'm neither.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

leemathre said:


> You are absolutely correct. My remarks had no constructive value whatsoever.


Watch out! Mark's a great guy, and we all love him, but if you "dish" ( witty play on words, pay attention everyone! keep up will you ) if you dish the reverand programmers.... well as you can see he can have a tongue like an electric eel and he likes the taste of a man's tonsils!


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## alipka (Dec 11, 2003)

Well, here's hoping that discrete codes are included in the new release (not to mention, dare I say it, actual information in the OTA program guide).


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

alipka said:


> Well, here's hoping that discrete codes are included in the new release (not to mention, dare I say it, actual information in the OTA program guide).


Hey miracles can occur! Check out my response in the Blue Line Address Thread--2 day turnaround to fix my unit!!! Now if the fixes include OTA programming information and fixes to the OTA timer issues, I'll be ok to wait on the rest of the fixes.

Mark--thanks for your hard work in helping to make these releases better for the rest of us.

Having been in the software development business for more than 15 years, and having had the management responsiblity for 100+ programmers, I can certainly sympathize with some of the comments and sentiments expressed. Having a very solid change management process and very robust test scripts and scenarios are key to any software development shop's success. Let's all hope that whomever makes the decisions regarding these key success factors learns from this experience. In the meantime, I hope the programmers involved in fixing the bugs have great and swift success!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

markcollins said:


> I HOPE IT has a fix for the need of seperate aspect ratio setups for HD and SD outputs without having to go into the menu function every time you want to switch from HD to SD.AS for as getting use to grey bars,well my television is too costly to burn the phosphors for a poor product design and software programming to cost ratio.I do think a little show of dissatisfaction for the product or service you pay for when subpar is appropriate.Not nonconstructive criticism though.How else will a vendor know if his customers are satisfied or recommending their product.Right now I'm neither.


I'm still holding out hope that the 16x9 aspect ratios will be fixed in the release, but I'm not betting on it.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

alipka said:


> Well, here's hoping that discrete codes are included in the new release (not to mention, dare I say it, actual information in the OTA program guide).


Possibly a discrete OFF to go with the discrete ON. Not a chance on the OTA guide programming yet - that won't happen until at least late spring/early summer timeframe.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

srrobinson2 said:


> Having been in the software development business for more than 15 years, and having had the management responsiblity for 100+ programmers, I can certainly sympathize with some of the comments and sentiments expressed. Having a very solid change management process and very robust test scripts and scenarios are key to any software development shop's success. Let's all hope that whomever makes the decisions regarding these key success factors learns from this experience. In the meantime, I hope the programmers involved in fixing the bugs have great and swift success!


Working on that as we speak... (the key success factors that is - some interesting things may actually happen not too long from now)


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

Mark I have had debates with people regarding the non working caller ID, do you know if that is a hardware or software issue? 
Alex


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Maybe it's best not to say anything negative like "if it doesn't release on Firday there is a good reason" As you saw, Mark, some people can't handle even the likelihood of reality. Best to say nothing until nothing happens on Friday and then you can explain that it just wasn't quite ready yet. Most of us understand that we don't want a software dump if it leaves us worse off for several weeks. Make sure each upgrade is an improvement! It was nice to receive that announcement that they were releasing another upgrade ready for us this week. At the end of the week and nothing happens, then and only then does an explanation need to be made. 

Once, when I had an anxious manager riding my butt everyday for a month on a project that wasn't due for 6 weeks, I finally told him it was going to be late because when I should have been working on it, I was too busy writing status progress reports. He backed off and said, give me a report at the end of the week! So I say, Mark, you do a great job as a real volunteer, just give us a report at the end of the week if it fails to happen. I don't need and neither does anyone else have any use for a daily status report on possibilities of reality.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

What's wrong with caller ID? It pops up here without fail, I can click and remove it or leave it up and it will go away in a few secods on it's own. If this is not supposed to work, then why does it work on mine?


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## lex61564 (Feb 10, 2004)

My TV and 921 don't seem to have any aspect issues, it seems to know when to switch automatically when viewing different content, SD or HD. I do know that with too much PVR activity and also TV listing searches and programing through guides cause reboots, this unit doesn't like to multitask too much, maybe it will be better with the next update on Friday "crossing fingers"

Alex


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> I don't need and neither does anyone else have any use for a daily status report on possibilities of reality.


I don't think Mark is the critical path/bottleneck here. The guys in England are the ones that need their time spent coding. If he wants to tell us what is really going on, I really appreciate it, as long as it doesn't take away from what he is doing, or over tax him.

I'm writing/debugging code right now, and I need to walk around, or post a comment here occasionally to help with writer's block. We all have different ways of doing things to maximize our productivity.

I completely agree with you that micro-managing is counter productive! :nono:


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Alex-

I can have it both ways but the stretch modes and other zooms are way inconsistent for those that need/want to watch their image distorted and stretched, a personal choice. I once explained it but the short story is that if you play with the toggling and switching around from SD to HD and back a sequence of events will generate the right degree of stretch but the problem has always been for me that if I switch channels off that correct stretch, then I lose it and need to redo the whole process over again which is neither direct nor intuitive. Bottom line- It's broke and needs fixed. If, like me you don't use stretch modes in your receiver or use them from 4x3 out from the 921 and stretch in your monitor, you should be good to go and consistent. If you must stretch in the 921 you are in for some strange and inconsistent results.


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## Ronald K (Jan 11, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> What's wrong with caller ID? It pops up here without fail, I can click and remove it or leave it up and it will go away in a few secods on it's own. If this is not supposed to work, then why does it work on mine?


Well I guess if it works on Don Landis' 921 then the rest of us can not be having the problems we are claiming.


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