# NO!!!!!!!!! Terrible HR20 problem. The worst I've heard.



## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

Listen to what happened to my HR20... which, btw, worked VERY well for the last few months... until this last update... last night I recorded the news in HD (a series link I've always had set)... and it stuck on!!!!! 

By the time I checked it tonight, it was up to 25 HOURS of recorded material... IN HD! I lost like 70 PROGRAMS I had saved up for months!  (mostly SD) and ONLY the 4 that had the "K" were left. So I couldn't stop it so I HAD to push reset and of course the screwed recording was deleted...

... I went from 10% free to %96 free.

HOW CAN THIS BE? This is SO bad I can't believe it..


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Don't forget to post this on the 12a issues thread as well.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Yikes! 

A couple comments (probably won't make you feel better though). 

First, your's news is in HD? Local news? That's cool.

Second, I guess this is a lesson for everyone to always make sure the shows you actually want to keep are marked with the K symbol. It sucks you had to learn the hard way


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## jerkieman (Oct 20, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> Yikes!
> 
> A couple comments (probably won't make you feel better though).
> 
> ...


Do you guys get paid by DirecTV or something ?? Why does everyone make excuses for this buggy product ? He shouldnt have had to mark what he wanted with a K symbol, the product shouldn't randomly record 25 hrs of content.


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## peterpiper3 (Sep 26, 2006)

I too have been having problems since the new "fix". The channels won't change unless I use the guide to do so, missed recordings, audio dropouts. It was fine until now.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

jerkieman said:


> Do you guys get paid by DirecTV or something ?? Why does everyone make excuses for this buggy product ? He shouldnt have had to mark what he wanted with a K symbol, the product shouldn't randomly record 25 hrs of content.


Well, I don't get paid by them, and I am not having any similar problems, and I haven't made a single excuse for this cutting edge, well-designed great product. I think its you that is very insulting really. Stop making your posts so personal in attacks. Or maybe you get paid by a cable company?


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## cdc101 (Jan 9, 2007)

mtnagel said:


> Yikes!
> 
> A couple comments (probably won't make you feel better though).
> 
> ...


Local CBS (KHOU) here in the Houston area went HD a couple weeks ago. It's pretty sweet.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Slyster said:


> Listen to what happened to my HR20... which, btw, worked VERY well for the last few months... until this last update... last night I recorded the news in HD (a series link I've always had set)... and it stuck on!!!!!
> 
> By the time I checked it tonight, it was up to 25 HOURS of recorded material... IN HD! I lost like 70 PROGRAMS I had saved up for months!  (mostly SD) and ONLY the 4 that had the "K" were left. So I couldn't stop it so I HAD to push reset and of course the screwed recording was deleted...
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear about what happened but I must ask and please don't take this the wrong way. Why would you save up 70 programs? Everyone knows that ANY DVR can have problems. Not just the HR20 but Tivos, Dish Network DVR's, etc. It's the nature of the beast. Why would you risk storing up that many programs knowing that something like this could happen?

Forgive me if I sound harsh but to me, anyone who uses their DVR for long term storage is asking for trouble. Over the years I have been burned way too many times. Now, important shows don't sit on my DVR for any more than a week. I figure if I can't watch it within a few days, I shouldn't be watching it since I don't have the time. But that's just me. Everyone has their own viewing habits. 

With that said though, be sure to report your bug in the appropriate thread and thanks for posting. I will keep an eye on my HR20 to see if it does the same thing.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Chris - great post, and to the point exactly. Over the years, I have read so many identical posts from peeps losing tons of saved stuff. The answer has always been that a DVR is not meant to be a permanent respository of content for that reason exactly!


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## ralso (Oct 26, 2006)

Chris Blount said:


> I'm sorry to hear about what happened but I must ask and please don't take this the wrong way. Why would you save up 70 programs? Everyone knows that ANY DVR can have problems. Not just the HR20 but Tivos, Dish Network DVR's, etc. It's the nature of the beast. Why would you risk storing up that many programs knowing that something like this could happen?
> 
> Forgive me if I sound harsh but to me, anyone who uses their DVR for long term storage is asking for trouble. Over the years I have been burned way too many times. Now, important shows don't sit on my DVR for any more than a week. I figure if I can't watch it within a few days, I shouldn't be watching it since I don't have the time. But that's just me. Everyone has their own viewing habits.
> 
> With that said though, be sure to report your bug in the appropriate thread and thanks for posting. I will keep an eye on my HR20 to see if it does the same thing.


Please forgive those of us that pay for a product and then expect it to work. I'm currently on my 3rd replacement HR20!!! If someone wants to store 70 programs, then the receiver should handle it. I agree with the previous post. Why make excuses for this product?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

jerkieman said:


> Do you guys get paid by DirecTV or something ?? Why does everyone make excuses for this buggy product ? He shouldnt have had to mark what he wanted with a K symbol, the product shouldn't randomly record 25 hrs of content.


The box has its problems. What the poster suggested was a work around so he would be less likely to lose recorded material in the future. Don't shoot the messenger. Many of us are here to help others and have no investment in D* at all. If you keep finding fault with those trying to help others, pretty soon you'll have no one to help....and that's on you guys, not D*.

I've had two instances in about 5 months of "stuck in record". I was able to fix both of them without a reboot. I've had 3 instances of the "black screen" (not a hung machine) in the last two updates. Obviously they changed something that increased the likelyhood of the problem for my box. Two did not require a reset, the last one did. I lost no programming...all my recording are marked K...which (as the other poster noted), I learned about 4 months ago, was a good practice.

For what it's worth, I don't think they should have taken 0x12a national. It and the prior version have a similar problem for me (in the CE releases), and I see no indication that D* worked it out prior to going from CE to NR on either.

Setting this problem aside (newly introduced in the last two releases), my box has been very good for the nearly 5 months I've had it. Very few and only minor problems. The last two releases with this new problem (for me) have the major problem of black screen, but fully operational remote and menu system. I consider any problem that requires a reset a major problem. (that's just one criterion that I use personally). I would also consider (among other things) ANY lost recordings a major bug as well. I haven't lost any recordings...but as you know from the above, I default every recording to (K)eep until I delete.

Until D* gets this thing past these kinds of problems, we need all the work arounds we can get. So, please, take your frustrations out on D* and not the people who are actually trying to help.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

SO SO sad for me.. I lost so much.

Why can't they have a EMERGENCY limit of 4 hours at least? If I really want 8 in a row.. I could just hit R again a few times on the guide?

Feels devastating really for my wife and I... I DO KNOW it's "JUST TV" but a lot of people here know what I'm talking about.


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## jcormack (Jan 19, 2007)

Any device that uses a hard drive as a storage device should have that data put on back-up media. Have you never had a HD fail in a computer? To rely on a HD for long-term storage is not a good idea. That is why companies use RAID and off-site storage for data...........that is just a good and practical idea. Any programs I want to keep long term I copy onto tape or DVD. That is not to say that you can't keep it on your DVR....but to not back it up is not a good idea.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

ralso said:


> Please forgive those of us that pay for a product and then expect it to work. I'm currently on my 3rd replacement HR20!!! If someone wants to store 70 programs, then the receiver should handle it. I agree with the previous post. Why make excuses for this product?


I think your missing the point that this happens unfortunately to people on all DVRS from time to time, not making any excuse for this model or that model. Knowing that, if you want to save content, you do it with this inherent risk is all that is being said.


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## Curt Lindner (Jul 29, 2003)

Slyster, sorry to hear your bad luck, and even sorrier (is that a word?) that most all of the responses you have gotten are from folks who basically criticize you for wanting to save TV shows.

Despite what some people will tell you, your expectations are not out of line. If you ever had a DirecTivo, you know how stable those are (as long as DirecTv doesn't hose up the guide). I've got programs stored on my Series 1 units that are over a year old. I have 4 of them, and they have never lost a program due to a glitch. Some missed recordings have occurred, but these were due to bad guide data, not the unit.

Every time my wife asks me why we haven't gotten the HR20, I just let her read a few of these threads.....


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

ralso said:


> Please forgive those of us that pay for a product and then expect it to work. I'm currently on my 3rd replacement HR20!!! If someone wants to store 70 programs, then the receiver should handle it. I agree with the previous post. Why make excuses for this product?


I'm not making excuses for this product. As I said in my previous post, ANY DVR can blow out recorded shows at any time. This is not just HR20 specific. The history of DVR's has shown us that they are not perfect and probably never will be. They are designed for time shifting, not archiving. Besides, as long as there are moving parts (i.e. the hard drive) the unit will fail at some point in time.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Slyster said:


> Why can't they have a EMERGENCY limit of 4 hours at least?


That would be crazy... Most NASCAR races can go longer than 4 hours and I for one am not here all the time to "just hit R again a few times on the guide".


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## brewer4 (Aug 19, 2006)

I've had a recording get stuck but luckily, I caught it after 10 hours or so and I dont keep much on this DVR. That totally sucks. Sorry Slyster.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

Chris Blount said:


> I'm sorry to hear about what happened but I must ask and please don't take this the wrong way. Why would you save up 70 programs? Everyone knows that ANY DVR can have problems. Not just the HR20 but Tivos, Dish Network DVR's, etc. It's the nature of the beast. Why would you risk storing up that many programs knowing that something like this could happen?
> 
> Forgive me if I sound harsh but to me, anyone who uses their DVR for long term storage is asking for trouble. Over the years I have been burned way too many times. Now, important shows don't sit on my DVR for any more than a week. I figure if I can't watch it within a few days, I shouldn't be watching it since I don't have the time. But that's just me. Everyone has their own viewing habits.
> 
> With that said though, be sure to report your bug in the appropriate thread and thanks for posting. I will keep an eye on my HR20 to see if it does the same thing.


We've got programming on 1 of our HR10's that is 13 months old (hacked with larger HD), and even older on the Sony SVR2000.

Granted, hard drives _do_ fail.......but other than that (type failure) these units should be expected to hold the recorded programming until there's either no space left, or we choose to delete it.

That said, I would _never_ trust the HR20 with any programming, much less 70. You never know what's gonna be there, and what is not. Sorry this happened to you, it really sucks to lose that and I know how you feel.

An opinion.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

For me the bottom line is, anything with a hard drive should have backups. I sympathize with the OP because I've lost programs before too. Actually just the other night I accidentally deleted something I really wanted to watch. I've also had drives crash in DVRs. 

Especially because the OP is saying that he lost a lot of SD programming I would recommend him calling DirecTV and asking for a free R15 to use as a backup. Or, if you're not confident in that, there are plenty of used DirecTiVos at Ebay and other places. No guarantee that they will be more stable but if it's worth having, it's worth backing up.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

Really sorry to hear about your problem.

Mine has been working just fine.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Sorry to hear about the problem. Definately post it in the issues thread.

After having 2 Tivo's over the years have their hard drives die and lost many programs I will also archive, even to a VCR, if I have something a month old that I really want to watch. But like Chris noadays I probably just delete it cause if I haven't had time to watch it in a month will I ever?

You never know when a hard drive will die or a power spike will fry a motherboard (I have a UPS but even they can fail).


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## Car1181 (Mar 30, 2006)

Slyster said:


> Feels devastating really for my wife and I... I DO KNOW it's "JUST TV" but a lot of people here know what I'm talking about.


I know exactly what you're talking about. My wife would kill me if her shows were lost (it would be my fault, of course). I haven't had a problem with this HR20 yet - it's a replacement for the one that wouldn't record - but I'm going to put those "K" 's up there right now to save myself from any future 'disharmony'.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Curt Lindner said:


> Slyster, sorry to hear your bad luck, and even sorrier (is that a word?) that most all of the responses you have gotten are from folks who basically criticize you for wanting to save TV shows.


Just because the timing of the advice is bad does not mean the advice itself it bad.


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## Curt Lindner (Jul 29, 2003)

Wow, I've certainly got some good laughs now from some of these replies.

Here we have a guy complaining because his receiver started recording and never stopped. A software glitch.

All these replies are talking about how the hardware can fail. I'm pretty sure if he had a hardware failure, he wouldn't have posted his original note. This is a case of DirecTV rushing out their MPEG4 receiver well before it was ready for prime time.

It's a good thing DTV has all you guys to apologize for them and trivialize all the problems people are having!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Curt Lindner said:


> Wow, I've certainly got some good laughs now from some of these replies.
> 
> Here we have a guy complaining because his receiver started recording and never stopped. A software glitch.
> 
> ...


Ummm, no. Who is apologizing? Get off your high horse.

Advice was given as a matter of course of what one should do when using hard drive based recorders. Sure it's to avoid hard drive related hardward failures. But it would also have saved the OP in this case of a software glitch.

Everyone has given sympathy and stated to post the problem in the issues thread. There is all that can be done there.
Then advice given to him and others on how to possibly survive such a failure in the future (hardware or software).
So what exactly is the harm in that?


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

jerkieman said:


> Do you guys get paid by DirecTV or something ?? Why does everyone make excuses for this buggy product ? He shouldnt have had to mark what he wanted with a K symbol, the product shouldn't randomly record 25 hrs of content.


Others have basically responded for me, but since you quoted me, I feel the need to respond too.

First, no I don't get paid by Directv. I wish I did. I'm just trying to help, but I guess you didn't take it that way.

We usually have around 25-30% free space, so I'm pretty anal about marking the things that I want to keep, so if this ever happened to me, I'd be fine. The wife would probably lose some stuff she hasn't watched, but she usually watches the stuff she _really _wants to watch in a timely fashion, so she'd probably be okay with it.

While I realize that this is 100% an HR20 issue, as many others have said, hard drives fail. That's not an HR20 issue and it could happen to anyone. I've learned the hard way and now I have several layers of backup for my data including an off-site backup at work. I would never trust 1 hard drive for long term storage. The only issue I ever had with a Directivo was a bad hard drive. I can and will happen at some point.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You know, it's also possible to set record defaults so that everything is automatically listed as Keep. That would have stopped the OP's problem. 

Matt, you don't work for DirecTV? Why not? You're better than most of the CSRs at helping people...


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## linuxworks (Dec 27, 2006)

Chris Blount said:


> I'm sorry to hear about what happened but I must ask and please don't take this the wrong way. Why would you save up 70 programs? Everyone knows that ANY DVR can have problems.


sorry, but your reply is just out of line.

its NOT an improper use of a pvr to SAVE programs.

man, talk about being an apologist! ;( ;(

"sorry that your tires blew out. but you know, you should not drive more than 1000mi on a set of tires. after that, well, they could blow out!"

this is absurd. to criticize a user for using his DISK BASED system to store programs ON DISK. oh the humanity! 

come on guys. stop apologizing for poor products. I have a directivo sd unit that has programs on it from FOUR YEARS AGO. still. I tend to keep some music concerts that I really like. is that a mis-use? no, I don't think so!

all this rationalizing is WHY I cancelled my dtv HD service in 2 days flat. I could see this trainwreck coming. I lost 2 shows in 2 days. 100% failure rate. this POS/POC ruined 2 of my days and I was not about to let it accumulate 'data' and then require a full re-format, thus losing what I perceive to be MY property (my recordings).

also, this is one reason why I hate having my files 'held hostage' by some encrypted disk service. I recently converted to using atsc/qam via a 'hd homerun' HD ethernet tuner box. my .ts files are now stored in the clear and they can be copied to/from my pc just fine. even converted from .ts to .mpg and burned or saved elsewhere. so on my home-built PVR, there is NO ONE to delete my programs out from under me without my say-so. which is how it SHOULD be.

vote with your dollars. cancel your account. its the only way to send them a message.


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## jerkieman (Oct 20, 2006)

[/QUOTE]
While I realize that this is 100% an HR20 issue, as many others have said, hard drives fail. That's not an HR20 issue and it could happen to anyone. I've learned the hard way and now I have several layers of backup for my data including an off-site backup at work. I would never trust 1 hard drive for long term storage. The only issue I ever had with a Directivo was a bad hard drive. I can and will happen at some point.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry you took it as a direct attack, but the apologizing for the product is laughable. All these posts talk about how hard drives can fail, but his hard drive didn't fail, it worked and record 25 hrs of content. The problem is the software glitch, and it's the product that failed.

I apologize I didn't mean to attack you.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Slyster said:


> Listen to what happened to my HR20... which, btw, worked VERY well for the last few months... until this last update... last night I recorded the news in HD (a series link I've always had set)... and it stuck on!!!!!
> 
> By the time I checked it tonight, it was up to 25 HOURS of recorded material... IN HD! I lost like 70 PROGRAMS I had saved up for months!  (mostly SD) and ONLY the 4 that had the "K" were left. So I couldn't stop it so I HAD to push reset and of course the screwed recording was deleted...
> 
> ...


The exact same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. I am not running the 12a update (but rather the 120 update before it). I assumed this problem was related to a guide issue not telling the HR20 to stop recording the 30 minute show after 30 minutes but I don't know. Mine recorded all night, the next morning, and all the next day until I looked to see what the heck my wife had it recording. I had 10 % left. I lost several programs.

Has anyone else had this problem (I've only heard of 2 times) or is this a very isolated problem?


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## marty45714 (Dec 16, 2006)

Chris,
What you are saying is total B.S. and you are just taking up for DirecTV. When I had DirecTivos that I upgraded to 200GB of disk space, I would frequently start recording shows in the middle of a "run" and then not watch them until every show was recorded, so that I could watch them from the beginning. I remember having over 200 episodes of Star Trek TNG on my DVR at one time. Another time (very recently), I recorded the entire run of Frasier. Do you know how many of those recordings I lost due to problems? NOT A SINGLE ONE! NO NOT ONE! Please jump off the DirecTV bandwagon. This box needs to be fixed. No excuses!



Chris Blount said:


> I'm sorry to hear about what happened but I must ask and please don't take this the wrong way. Why would you save up 70 programs? Everyone knows that ANY DVR can have problems. Not just the HR20 but Tivos, Dish Network DVR's, etc. It's the nature of the beast. Why would you risk storing up that many programs knowing that something like this could happen?
> 
> Forgive me if I sound harsh but to me, anyone who uses their DVR for long term storage is asking for trouble. Over the years I have been burned way too many times. Now, important shows don't sit on my DVR for any more than a week. I figure if I can't watch it within a few days, I shouldn't be watching it since I don't have the time. But that's just me. Everyone has their own viewing habits.
> 
> With that said though, be sure to report your bug in the appropriate thread and thanks for posting. I will keep an eye on my HR20 to see if it does the same thing.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

Chris Blount said:


> I'm sorry to hear about what happened but I must ask and please don't take this the wrong way. Why would you save up 70 programs? Everyone knows that ANY DVR can have problems. Not just the HR20 but Tivos, Dish Network DVR's, etc. It's the nature of the beast. Why would you risk storing up that many programs knowing that something like this could happen?
> 
> Forgive me if I sound harsh but to me, anyone who uses their DVR for long term storage is asking for trouble. Over the years I have been burned way too many times. Now, important shows don't sit on my DVR for any more than a week. I figure if I can't watch it within a few days, I shouldn't be watching it since I don't have the time. But that's just me. Everyone has their own viewing habits.
> 
> With that said though, be sure to report your bug in the appropriate thread and thanks for posting. I will keep an eye on my HR20 to see if it does the same thing.


My SD Philips D*TiVo start acting weird once the HD starts getting full. Slow channel changing, freezing video and a few others I can't think of at this moment. I had to reformat and lose a few recordingsI kept for several months, one was SRV at Montrose. I try not to keep recordings for too long now after my experience with the philips unit. Maybe, someday, we will be able to dump recordings to our compuetrs or dvd recorders, then again monkeys will fly out of the MPAA's butt before that happens


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

n3ntj said:


> Has anyone else had this problem (I've only heard of 2 times) or is this a very isolated problem?


I've actually never heard of this problem. Many releases back, my Live TV buffer recorded over 10 hours before I changed the Channel and reclaimed the space.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

marty45714 said:


> Chris,
> What you are saying is total B.S. and you are just taking up for DirecTV. When I had DirecTivos that I upgraded to 200GB of disk space, I would frequently start recording shows in the middle of a "run" and then not watch them until every show was recorded, so that I could watch them from the beginning. I remember having over 200 episodes of Star Trek TNG on my DVR at one time. Another time (very recently), I recorded the entire run of Frasier. Do you know how many of those recordings I lost due to problems? NOT A SINGLE ONE! NO NOT ONE! Please jump off the DirecTV bandwagon. This box needs to be fixed. No excuses!


Yeah, because bagging on the guy who runs the forum is really the right way to handle this.

Let's go back to the basics again -


It's not a Tivo.
None of us are DirecTV shills or apologists.
No one thinks the HR20 is perfect yet. 
We do this because it's fun, not because we love getting hollered at.


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## marty45714 (Dec 16, 2006)

My post was just as constructive and necessary as Chris' was. Why is he "bagging" on a guy who expects this box to do what it is supposed to? Oh my, what a novel idea, that this thing should record an hour program instead of 25 hours! Why, I can see why you would not be surprised that this would happen! Oh my gosh, yes, why would we expect it to only record for an hour and keep the remainder of the programs? Why shame on him for seeing that the DVR has 250GB of disk space and NO, PLEASE DON'T SAY IT, he actually wanted to USE that disk space because it was there! OH MY!!!! Lighten up!



lamontcranston said:


> Yeah, because bagging on the guy who runs the forum is really the right way to handle this.
> 
> Let's go back to the basics again -
> 
> ...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

n3ntj said:


> Has anyone else had this problem (I've only heard of 2 times) or is this a very isolated problem?


Yes, others have had the problem. I had it occur to me way back in one of the very first releases, I had a recording go for about 6+ hours before I caught it.

I have seen it reported maybe a handfull of times over the 6 months.
It is a fairly rare/isolated problem.

-----------
As for the "stop defending", "making excuses", "DirecTV bandwagon"...

If someone tells you to drive slowly because of bad weather... are they on the side of the road crews that have not plowed the streets yet?

No, they are simply giving you a suggestion on how to avoid an issue.
That is what the comments regarding butting the K on key recordings was, a suggestion to avoid losing critical recordings. I use it, and I have 100% faith in my HR20 to do it's job.

A lot of here, have 6+ years of DVRing experience, regardless of the problem.
A lot of us have suggestions on how to work with this enviornment, and suggetsions on how to mitigate "pain and suffering" if their a failure with a DVR regardless of it's software or hardware, and who ever made it.

This was the OP's post:



Slyster said:


> Listen to what happened to my HR20... which, btw, worked VERY well for the last few months... until this last update... last night I recorded the news in HD (a series link I've always had set)... and it stuck on!!!!!
> 
> By the time I checked it tonight, it was up to 25 HOURS of recorded material... IN HD! I lost like 70 PROGRAMS I had saved up for months!  (mostly SD) and ONLY the 4 that had the "K" were left. So I couldn't stop it so I HAD to push reset and of course the screwed recording was deleted...
> 
> ...


I original see the "HOW CAN THIS BE?" as a rhetorical question... not one asking for a reply. So other then... "Oh, that sucks" replies... what else are you expecting?

Some decided to take the opportunity to provided some suggestions on how to avoid the issue. Other have taken the opportunity to take a swing at DirecTV... Other have taken the opportunity to take a swing at our user base...

Out of those three...Which two do you think we are going to allow here in the forums?

As a side note... I learned my lesson about 3 years ago. I had 12 episodes of Smallville all recorded on my DSR704 (TiVo based unit)... then the hard drive crashed, and I have not watched Smallville since, opting just now buy the DVD sets and make it a "summer" show. I learned then, the hardway. Critical shows... get recorded in more then one place. REGARDLESS of the technology being used to record them... As "****" does happen.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Well, this thread turned out to be interesting.

First, my apologies to the OP if my replies sounded like a slam. That was not my intention. After working with DVR's for over 7 years, I was just trying to offer some advice and obviously it was taken the wrong way.

To close on a constructive tone, I will now offer the following quotes to avoid the problem in the future.



jcormack said:


> Any device that uses a hard drive as a storage device should have that data put on back-up media.





lamontcranston said:


> You know, it's also possible to set record defaults so that everything is automatically listed as Keep. That would have stopped the OP's problem.


... and that's all I'm going to say about that.


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

Curt Lindner said:


> Wow, I've certainly got some good laughs now from some of these replies.
> 
> Here we have a guy complaining because his receiver started recording and never stopped. A software glitch.
> 
> ...


I have to agree to a certain extent with this post. Most people are saying that he should be backing up his HD because it might fail, you shouldn't have so many shows on the HD because it might fail, etc. If the OP posted that he lost all of his recordings because of a HD failure, then I could understand those responses. BUT that is not what happened here. There was a glitch with the software and THAT is what caused the OP to lose his 70 shows. I think the criticism should be directed at the software within the HR20 and not at the OP for not backing up his HD.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

nm


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

:scratchin


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

OK.. I am definetly going to figure out how to make things "K" (Keep) by default.. I didn't know one could do that.

But even so... if it sticks on again... what does happen when it runs out of space? Somethings got to give?


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## fpd917 (Aug 16, 2006)

cdc101 said:


> Local CBS (KHOU) here in the Houston area went HD a couple weeks ago. It's pretty sweet.


Our local CBS station in Nashville went HD, I have to say, it is impressive.


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## amallon (Oct 12, 2006)

> To close on a constructive tone, I will now offer the following quotes to avoid the problem in the future.


There is absolutely nothing constructive about insinuating that the original poster is somehow responsible or at fault for not anticipating a major software glitch like the one described.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

tiger2005 said:


> I think the criticism should be directed at the software within the HR20 and not at the OP for not backing up his HD.


Certainly, the software failed, but I believe that you are mistaking a friendly reminder as criticism. HDD do fail and if anyone chooses to take the on risk of HDD failure, then that person also chooses to accept the consequence of any failure that occurs.

In this specific case, the HDD did not crash, but the result was the same. How is suggesting a proactive course classified as criticism?


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## dsm (Jul 11, 2004)

lamontcranston said:


> You know, it's also possible to set record defaults so that everything is automatically listed as Keep. That would have stopped the OP's problem.


Good idea. I'm going to change mine tonight. I actually only record stuff I want to actually watch so I'm happy to manually delete everything.

thanks for the suggestion!

-steve


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

> It's a good thing DTV has all you guys to apologize for them and trivialize all the problems people are having!


And it's a good thing there are those around to make personal attacks and insults to those offering advice and guidance.

Yeah, this was pretty clearly not a hardware problem. So what? It's still bad practice to store huge amounts of data on hard drives without backups, period. Insulting the people who point that out helps no one.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

So how pray tell does one back up the HDD of the HR20?

If it was possible to truly back up the MPEG2 and MPEG4 data that would be swell.

However, the technology limits us to only being able to create facsimiles of the original by dumping converted output to VCR or DVD.

The only way to archive the true HD content in its' original HD format is on the HR20 itself.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> If it was possible to truly back up the MPEG2 and MPEG4 data that would be swell.


Agreed. I would love to have a DVD burner built into the HR20. I would even be OK with it requiring an HR20 on my DirecTV account to view it (so I couldn't share it with a friend).


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## amallon (Oct 12, 2006)

brott said:


> Certainly, the software failed, but I believe that you are mistaking a friendly reminder as criticism. HDD do fail and if anyone chooses to take the on risk of HDD failure, then that person also chooses to accept the consequence of any failure that occurs.
> 
> In this specific case, the HDD did not crash, but the result was the same. How is suggesting a proactive course classified as criticism?


Your reminders are irrelevant because in this case the hard drive did not fail. We all choose to take on the risk on of a HDD failure. What the original poster (and I) should not have to take on is the risk of poor software overwriting all of the recordings with no warning.

Criticizing someone after the fact for not guarding against something that shouldn't have happened is poor form.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

amallon said:


> Your reminders are irrelevant because in this case the hard drive did not fail. We all choose to take on the risk on of a HDD failure. What the original poster (and I) should not have to take on is the risk of poor software overwriting all of the recordings with no warning.
> 
> Criticizing someone after the fact for not guarding against something that shouldn't have happened is poor form.


OK.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

YES.. there is NO WAY TO BACKUP.. what's up with that??? Yikes.

Backing up to DVD or VHS rediculous. takes the same amount of time as watching the stinking shows!

If it were allowed.. I'd gladly sink in a few $$$ for an external 200gb drive to hook up USB and dump.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Seriously though and with all due respect I ask everyone who said the OP should have backed up his programming

How do you truly back up your HD content from the HR20?

You are making all these HDD failure analogies, a backup by definition can also be restored.

I don't think it can be done, and I think that is by design. So being upset that the technology that prevented you from making a true backup of your data and also resulted in the loss of your original data is a fair complaint. The product should be a target for some pretty harsh criticism for this.

This is another example of the unit failing in its' most basic expected functionality.

Maybe some of you are tolerant of this and that's fine. To claim others should be equally tolerant or that it is somehow their fault for not making significant compromises to anticipate and mitigate potential failures of the unit in its' most basic tasks is assuming the role of an apologist.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I've seen a couple of requests for "how to change the defaults."

Easiest way under 0x12a is highlight and select something in either the oneline or fullscreen guide. select either the record once or record series menus; hit the menu button and a new item for record defaults appears. select that and it will expand to "Episode Type", "Keep at Most", "Keep Until", "Start", and "Stop".

I think this menu is now much easier to reach theses, Thank you DIRECTV!
Cheers,
Tom


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> Seriously though and with all due respect I ask everyone who said the OP should have backed up his programming
> 
> How do you truly back up your HD content from the HR20?
> 
> ...


By backing up, I mean a second DVR. DirecTV will give you an R15 if you agree to a 1 year contract extension. There is no method for extracting data from the hard drive for DRM purposes. I am a harsh critic of DRM, I think it's unconstitutional and should be abolished, but that has nothing to do with anything. I'm saying, get another DVR for FREE and put important programming on that one as well.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> By backing up, I mean a second DVR. DirecTV will give you an R15 if you agree to a 1 year contract extension. There is no method for extracting data from the hard drive for DRM purposes. I am a harsh critic of DRM, I think it's unconstitutional and should be abolished, but that has nothing to do with anything. I'm saying, get another DVR for FREE and put important programming on that one as well.


So you should be expected to spend additional money to lease and operate an R15, not use it as an additional storage device but as a redundant device to back up the HR20 you are also paying for, and in the event of an HR20 failure to settle for SD versions of the programming as substitutes for the HD programming...which you also paid for?

Hey, if it works for you...great. I expect more.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> So you should be expected to spend additional money to lease and operate an R15, not use it as an additional storage device but as a redundant device to back up the HR20 you are also paying for, and in the event of an HR20 failure to settle for SD versions of the programming as substitutes for the HD programming...which you also paid for?
> 
> Hey, if it works for you...great. I expect more.


It is one technique to handle a situation that can occur on any DVR product out there for any reason (be it software or hardware).

That is all... why is eveyrone getting their undies into a twist over this.
If you don't like the suggestion of having a 2nd (or 3rd,4th, 5th DVR) to double record cirticial programs... so be it.

But it is a viable "backup" solution. And is a technique that is not new.
I have used it personally for 6 years and still do today. Others with "TiVos" use it. So if the economics for you don't work, then yes... don't do it.

Bottom line: DVR's are specialized computers. There are going to be hardware failures, and there will be software failures. Even long term products have had issues after years of no issues...

It is just a suggestion on how to avoid the "critical" issue in the future.
That's it...

Heck for the SuperBowl, I set three DVR's and a VCR (that was a trip).
Not because I don't trust the DVR+ series that I have..... Just because it was THAT important to me, I didn't want to take any chances..


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Good Lord.... The excuses being made in this thread for this piece of hardware are just unbelievable. The OP is at fault because he expected the product to work as advertised, or at least that's what these positions seem to suggest.

This is part of the reason these issues haven't been fully addressed yet and why DirecTV felt confident enough to jump the TiVo ship and do this all on their own. DVR technology, in their mind, isn't all that complicated.

The bottom line is that the hardware/software right now just is not right. The only mistake anyone made is in going out on the limb to try the solution in the first place.

I currently have my HD-TiVo downstairs and an R15 upstairs (two actually) and the only reason for the R15 is that my series 1 DirecTiVo died. The R15 has been so bad that even though DirecTV is willing to give me an H20, I haven't taken them up on it yet. I'm waiting until it sounds like the unit is at least mostly reliable.

Please, though, stop with the excuses. And stop with the replies claiming that your excuses aren't excuses. If Product A supports Feature A and it doesn't work reliably, anything you say about it that let's Company A off the hook is an excuse. DVR's aren't mean for show storage??? Are you joking? They're all about storage. It's one thing if the drive dies and you lose shows. It's another thing when they go away for any other unexpected reason.

Consumers expect their products to work as expected and it's up to the suppliers to make sure they meet that demand. Anything that claims to, but falls short, is the cause of the problem.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Earl, I don't buy the notion that the frequency and variety of the failures being experienced by the HR20 are typical and that extreme redundancy is a reasonable expectation to guard against them.

They aren't. 

If this was typical of today's DVRs across the board, you would need redundant systems behind the redundant systems behind your redundant systems to really be safe.

The HR20 should do what it was sold to do (view, record, playback and store programming) better than 99% of the time.

It doesn't.

My R10s have given me exactly one problem in the years I have had them. 

My home network has 4 PCs and two laptops. In all the time I have owned computers I have had one computer fail fatally.

Yes, technology can and will fail by the nature of what it is...but not to the degree some of these HR20s do. You cannot spin this as reasonably to be expected, acceptable and typical of high technology.


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> Good Lord.... The excuses being made in this thread for this piece of hardware are just unbelievable. The OP is at fault because he expected the product to work as advertised, or at least that's what these positions seem to suggest.
> 
> This is part of the reason these issues haven't been fully addressed yet and why DirecTV felt confident enough to jump the TiVo ship and do this all on their own. DVR technology, in their mind, isn't all that complicated.
> 
> ...


I gather from your post that you don't even own an HR-20.....


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

How important is it for you to get to work in the morning? Very? If so, why don't you own six cars to get there? A car is technology. It might fail. The second one you get into might be problematic that day and be out of the question. The third one might be out because someone got sick in it the night before, and so on.

You don't own six cars to get to work, even though getting to work is very important, because you expect the car to do its job and get you there reliably. In the RARE case that it doesn't work, you make other plans or call work and explain the situation (of which they're generally understanding).

Imagine a world where your car was as reliable as your H20. You'd have been fired long ago.



> I gather from your post that you don't even own an HR-20.....


And your point being? I think I made that pretty clear. I've owned roughly a dozen different DirecTV boxes over the years. With few exceptions they've worked well. Then came my R15 (which the H20 is based on) and it's been one problem after another. I started looking to the H20 but found all of these types of threads. Are you saying that people without H20's are not allowed to comment about their expectations of what an H20 should provide for??? Are you saying that someone without an H20 is incapable of seeing excuses being made for a product or service? Please explain.


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## marty45714 (Dec 16, 2006)

I tell you what, at first, this thread fired me up. But now, after reading these posts, it's got me lmfao! !rolling Keep posting!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> Earl, I don't buy the notion that the frequency and variety of the failiures being experienced by the HR20 are typical and that exterme redundancy is a reasonable expectation.
> 
> They aren't.


And I didn't state one time that they where.

All I stated, is that the technique is valid for ANY DVR. 
I lost recordings on once "trusted" TiVo platform... didn't mean I didn't trust it to do it's job... Is that it was worth my extra cost to ensure, on a second independent unit to also do the job.

Even when it was user error... I setup A-Teams to record one time, with "repeats" turned on and keep all (as it was on 5 times a week, but I usually watched them at night the day off)... Well, there was a marathon on TVLand over Labor-Day weekend... 72 episodes recorded... cleared my entire drive.

That is what a backup is. You don't "plan" for failure on the first... but you know it could happen, thus if you are willing to absorbe the cost of the backup... you do it.

Just like here at work... We spend nearly $1,000 a month on our backup solution... And we have not had to implement it in the 12 months I have been here (and from what I know, it hasn't had to be used since it's introduction 2 years ago). We trust the primary system......


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> How important is it for you to get to work in the morning? Very? If so, why don't you own six cars to get there? A car is technology. It might fail. The second one you get into might be problematic that day and be out of the question. Their third one might be out because someone got sick in it the night before, and so on.
> 
> You don't known six cars to get to work, even though getting to work is very important, because you expect the car to do its job and get you there reliably. In the RARE case that it doesn't work, you make other plans or call work and explain the situation (of which they're generally understanding).
> 
> Imagine a world where your car was as reliable as your H20. You'd have been fired long ago.


Ok, ok. don't need 6 cars, but that is not a good analogy, there are many instances with technology where a backup is not only good sense, but legally needed. Name me 1 Fortune 500 company that does NOT do a backup of its daily business transactions (email, phone logs, etc.). Why - lots of reasons that hard drives fail - that's the major one. If you care so much about your saved data (and I am NOT making a judgement, just a factual statement), and you don't want to chance losing it, backing it up is the usual course of action. Whatever way you need to or choose to back it up, it makes sense IF the data IS that important.


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## SuperTech1 (Jan 9, 2007)

Imagine a world where your car was as reliable as your H20. You'd have been fired long ago.

I think you may have meant H*R*20. Mine has been very reliable as have others based on their postings. If I put as much importance on DVR functionality as I do my job, then maybe I should be fired.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> And your point being? I think I made that pretty clear. I've owned roughly a dozen different DirecTV boxes over the years. With few exceptions they've worked well. Then came my R15 (which the H20 is based on) and it's been one problem after another. I started looking to the H20 but found all of these types of threads. Are you saying that people without H20's are not allowed to comment about their expectations of what an H20 should provide for??? Are you saying that someone without an H20 is incapable of seeing excuses being made for a product or service? Please explain.


The HR20 is not based of the R15.
It shares a GUI design, and conceptual features.. .but there is no code shared betweent he two.


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## marty45714 (Dec 16, 2006)

Bump... This is the best post on this entire thread! :goodjob:



Agrajag said:


> Good Lord.... The excuses being made in this thread for this piece of hardware are just unbelievable. The OP is at fault because he expected the product to work as advertised, or at least that's what these positions seem to suggest.
> 
> This is part of the reason these issues haven't been fully addressed yet and why DirecTV felt confident enough to jump the TiVo ship and do this all on their own. DVR technology, in their mind, isn't all that complicated.
> 
> ...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> How important is it for you to get to work in the morning? Very? If so, why don't you own six cars to get there?


I can walk to work, so owning six cars is unnecessary for me.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Fortune 500 companies stand to lose billions of dollars if their data vanished. They also have legal reasons for needing to make sure their information is reliable. They also realize that these billion dollar investments have so many factors involved that could impact the system that backing up only makes sense. 

In your home we're talking about TV shows and a couple of people using the system. If these companies you speak of were relying on the equivalent of the HR20's, they'd be out of business today, backup or no backup.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

ScoBuck said:


> Ok, ok. don't need 6 cars, but that is not a good analogy, there are many instances with technology where a backup is not only good sense, but legally needed. Name me 1 Fortune 500 company that does NOT do a backup of its daily business transactions (email, phone logs, etc.). Why - lots of reasons that hard drives fail - that's the major one. If you care so much about your saved data (and I am NOT making a judgement, just a factual statement), and you don't want to chance losing it, backing it up is the usual course of action. Whatever way you need to or choose to back it up, it makes sense IF the data IS that important.


I work in IT for a Fortune 500 company and we back up all of our production systems daily, sure.

We just don't operate complete duplicate versions of them with duplicate transaction processing in order to do so, we dump it to archival media that we can recover the system from if need be. I know it all too well, I'm the DBA and it falls to me if and when it happens...and it has...very rarely.

If D* woud afford us the same option of backing up to media with the option to recover on the DVRs I'd be on board and all over the opportunity. Even if the backups were encrypted or encoded so they could only be used to restore the system they were backed up from, I'd say you should do it. I'd even have a centralized media backup server for the purpose, just like the Fortune 500 companies I've worked for.

Caveat Emptor if you don't do backups, but you need to have the ability to do so first.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> Fortune 500 companies stand to lose billions of dollars if their data vanished. They also have legal reasons for needing to make sure their information is reliable. They also realize that these billion dollar investments have so many factors involved that could impact the system that backing up only makes sense.
> 
> In your home we're talking about TV shows and a couple of people using the system. If these companies you speak of were relying on the equivalent of the H20's, they'd be out of business today, backup or no backup.


And if I ran a fortune 500 company, I WOULD have 6 cars to get me to work I think.

If YOU are so concerned about YOUR saved data (in ANY form and from ANY source), you should back it up regardless.

If you use MS Word frequently, there is an option to auto save work in progress - if you don't use it and somehow your PC crashes, or you erase data before manually saving your in the same boat.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Doug, what happens if your legs decide to give out? Shouldn't you have wheelchairs stored somewhere?

ScoBuck, what about the cases where the unit doesn't record the show at all? Here we're not talking a backup. We're talking complete redundancy. I should spend the money and have the hassle of multiple units (Earl said he has SIX?!?!?!?!) to do what the one unit is supposed to do? That's NUTS and for a TV show. 

I have important documents copied and stored in a safety deposit box under lock and key. TV shows don't fall into that category for me but I would like to know that they're going to be recorded and stick around for me to see them. Is that really so much to ask from a device designed to do just that?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> Doug, what happens if your legs decide to give out? Shouldn't you have wheelchairs stored somewhere?


I have friends that would help me out.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> We back up all of our production systems daily, sure.
> 
> We just don't operate complete duplicate versions of them with duplicate transaction processing in order to do so, we dump it to archival media that we can recover the system from if need be. I know it all too well, I'm the DBA and it falls to me if and when it happens...and it has...very rarely.
> 
> ...


harley - I can't disagree with you, I was only trying to present an analogy making more sense to this issue than having 6 cars for going to work, or the newest one about the wheelchair (which is in poor taste as there are disabled members on these threads).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> Good Lord.... The excuses being made in this thread for this piece of hardware are just unbelievable. The OP is at fault because he expected the product to work as advertised, or at least that's what these positions seem to suggest.
> 
> This is part of the reason these issues haven't been fully addressed yet and why DirecTV felt confident enough to jump the TiVo ship and do this all on their own. DVR technology, in their mind, isn't all that complicated.
> 
> ...


Where has anyone "faulted" the OP?

Chris asked a question about the 70 hours on the hard drive.... And even posted that he wasn't trying to be harsh, but was curious... and pointed out multiple years of "experience" he has and we hae seen in threads of other users, about what can happen when you have too much stored on a system and there is any type of failure.

It isn't an excuse for the HR20 having the software failure it did.. It isn't condeming the OP because he had a problem... Which a people have experience... recordings being lost for SOME reason or another..

Do you have some "basis" for your statement that DirecTV things creating a DVR is easy? There are a lot of factors that went into the "split" between DirecTV and TiVo.

So can you explain why there are SO many people that have functioning R15 and HR20... I mean seriously... do you have tangible evidence/facts that the issues are at a critical mass volume of people with issues... Do you? Does anyone?

Yes, consumers do expect their products to work. And they should work.
But can you find me one product... one.. that has never had a single issue report with it...

The HR20 does work... it is not perfect... and it probably never will be.
As the "DVR" benchmark, TiVo, is still not perfect after nearly 7 years.

So: Anyone stating their HR20 works, is stating an excuse?
So: Anyone stating their HR20 doesn't work, is bashing it?

Is that what we are getting to... If so...time to close up shop.
Because reality has left the building.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

And I can't disagree with the notion of backing up critical data. The idea is good common sense.

I'm just deliberately prevented from doing so by D*.

OK.

Well then at least give me a product that isn't prone to loss of the data you won't let me back up.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

ScoBuck said:


> (which is in poor taste as there are disabled members on these threads).


In what way is referring to a wheelchair in bad taste? We're referring to technical issues here and we clearly have technically-challenged people here.

I doubt very highly that someone in a wheelchair would be upset that I suggested someone keep a wheelchair handy in case their legs fail them.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The HR20 is not based of the R15.


Thank God for small favors.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Agrajag said:


> How important is it for you to get to work in the morning? Very? If so, why don't you own six cars to get there? A car is technology. It might fail. The second one you get into might be problematic that day and be out of the question. The third one might be out because someone got sick in it the night before, and so on.
> 
> You don't own six cars to get to work, even though getting to work is very important, because you expect the car to do its job and get you there reliably. In the RARE case that it doesn't work, you make other plans or call work and explain the situation (of which they're generally understanding).


LOL. This is awesome.

If my car fails I have several backup plans:
1) Wife take me to work with her car
2) Get on the bus and walk the half mile from the bus stop near work
3) Take a taxi
4) Be late until car gets towed and fixed
5) Call in sick and party

For DVRs I've always had at least 2 Tivo's in the house and they back up each other's critical programs after my very first Tivo had it's hard drive fail (oh 7 years ago now). HR20 is just another DVR added to the mix.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> Fortune 500 companies stand to lose billions of dollars if their data vanished. They also have legal reasons for needing to make sure their information is reliable. They also realize that these billion dollar investments have so many factors involved that could impact the system that backing up only makes sense.
> 
> In your home we're talking about TV shows and a couple of people using the system. If these companies you speak of were relying on the equivalent of the HR20's, they'd be out of business today, backup or no backup.


The "concept" of the backup is still the same none the less.
Value of employing a backup... for fortune 500 companies, it is WORTH the expense of some backup solutions.

Spending the extra $5 a month for the mirroring fee for another DVR in the house... may be worth it to you.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bonscott87 said:


> LOL. This is awesome.
> 
> If my car fails I have several backup plans:
> 1) Wife take me to work with her car
> ...


Don't forget the Broadband connection to VPN in (works in my case)


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> In what way is referring to a wheelchair in bad taste? We're referring to technical issues here and we clearly have technically-challenged people here.
> 
> I doubt very highly that someone in a wheelchair would be upset that I suggested someone keep a wheelchair handy in case their legs fail them.


figure it out yourself dude


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

marty45714 said:


> I tell you what, at first, this thread fired me up. But now, after reading these posts, it's got me lmfao! !rolling Keep posting!


I'm with ya. I got riled up but now it's a comedy. Kinda like CSI: Miami...if you view it as a comedy it's so much better. :hurah:


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The "concept" of the backup is still the same none the less.
> Value of employing a backup... for fortune 500 companies, it is WORTH the expense of some backup solutions.
> 
> Spending the extra $5 a month for the mirroring fee for another DVR in the house... may be worth it to you.


If the DVR is replacing another IRD, there is NO additional fee.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Don't forget the Broadband connection to VPN in (works in my case)


I used to have that option but after I got layed off a couple years ago (back now in a different division) they don't have that option for contractors unless you get VP approval. :nono2:


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Here is my TV watching backup plan:

1) HR20 is primary
2) R10 Tivo is next to it for triple conflicts and backup of critical stuff
3) Another DirecTivo is in the house that can be used just in case
4) BitTorrent

And to the original poster, not sure if you're still watching this thread or not, but if your wife is really upset by lost programs you can probably get most of them either on the network web site (free), Itunes ($$), or BitTorrent (free). At least that will get her by.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> Well then at least give me a product that isn't prone to loss of the data you won't let me back up.


They are not direct comparisons, but here are some.

XBOX / XBOX360 
There are some games, that will not let you store the saved data files anywhere but the hard drive of the system. You can not back them up to a memory card, nor can you extract them from the hard drive.

DVD/CD 
Even through most carest of usage, that optical media could have a failure.
You can not make a backup of disk, unless you spend some money on your side and circumvent security. So then you are at the mercy of the store to accept the return, or the publishers to replace that disk.

Cell Phones
Unless you are willing to spend money on a software package and cable... you can't back up the data. And I have had software failures on my cell-phone, which result in a loss of all the contacts and messages. Then even if you have a hardware failure, in most cases you can't even recover content you have paid for (ringers, games, ect).


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Do you have some "basis" for your statement that DirecTV things creating a DVR is easy? There are a lot of factors that went into the "split" between DirecTV and TiVo.


The ease with which they cut loose TiVo and moved to their own box is pretty much black-and-white. You know people at DirecTV Earl. You know they're not exactly giddy over the way the current hardware is performing.

Like most things, if you release a million of something you're going to have a number of people who claim to have no issues. Just the nature of numbers. I recently finished up a situation with a Pioneer TV. It had an inherent defect. 100% of this model was affected by the defect but only a fraction of the owners noted the problem and got it addressed. That doesn't mean the others didn't have the problem. It just means the others aren't as finicky or aren't likely to be future Pioneer customers.

Go check out threads for other products. Most of them have people posting concerns about them. THIS forum has all sorts of totally off-the-wall posts about an array of problems regarding this device. It's yet another excuse to say that since all products aren't flawless that this product is no different.



> So: Anyone stating their HR20 works, is stating an excuse?


Never said anything of the sort. Glad it's working for them. It might not be, but that's another topic of discussion.



> So: Anyone stating their HR20 doesn't work, is bashing it?


Never said that either. However, as taken as a whole, I'M bashing DirecTV for providing a piece of hardware that clearly has causes so many people to have so much trouble with it as to keep an entire forum continually active with more trouble reports.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Here is my TV watching backup plan:
> 
> 1) HR20 is primary
> 2) R10 Tivo is next to it for triple conflicts and backup of critical stuff
> ...


BitTorrent is my primary backup plan. On rare occasion, I set a backup recording on a DVR in another room. I tend to NOT leave recordings on my DVR for extended periods and fully accept loss due to HDD or software failure.


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## linuxworks (Dec 27, 2006)

amallon said:


> There is absolutely nothing constructive about insinuating that the original poster is somehow responsible or at fault for not anticipating a major software glitch like the one described.


if there WAS a way to backup your shows, THEN I'd agree the user was at fault for not preventing a potential disk crash.

BUT we are PROHIBITED from doing true backups. even if you image your disk and try to move to a new box (say your old box died) - you are STILL not able to view your saved shows - they are tied to the machine+drive.

there is no (legal) way to save your shows via a direct copy. you'd have to do a 1:1 analog decode-reencode which is lossy beyond belief (and the resultant shows are almost unwatchable once you go thru just 1 extra mpg encode - the SD quality, at least, is bad enough as it is in 'pure' format. and HD is not even back-upable via an analog connection, afaik!)

what would be fair is if they didn't go thru pains to lock down the drives and files. THEN it would be fair game to blame users if they didn't do preventative maint by saving their shows OFF-BOX. but we can't legally do that, so we're slaves to the company for our content/data.

they can't or shouldn't have it both ways. either let us WORK AROUND the bugs by exporting shows (never gonna legally happen..) OR just stop the program logic from EVER deleting shows by mistake. put lots of "if (condition)" checks around each sensitive code area to ensure that no mistaken deletes occur.

that won't prevent disk crashes due to pure hardware issues, but again, that's not what blew away this OPs data!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> The ease with which they cut loose TiVo and moved to their own box is pretty much black-and-white. You know people at DirecTV Earl. You know they're not exactly giddy over the way the current hardware is performing.


The ease? What makes you think it was easy?
Just because from the outside, all we see is a end to the contract?

You are right, they want it to perform better then it is now... 
But I wouldn't say they are "depressed" (opposite of giddy), about how it is actually performing.



Agrajag said:


> Like most things, if you release a million of something you're going to have a number of people who claim to have no issues. Just the nature of numbers. I recently finished up a situation with a Pioneer TV. It had an inherent defect. 100% of this model was affected by the defect but only a fraction of the owners noted the problem and got it addressed. That doesn't mean the others didn't have the problem. It just means the others aren't as finicky or aren't likely to be future Pioneer customers.


But it also doesn't mean they "had" the problem.
I had my Pioneer 503cmx... it's original power supply had an issue. Everyone of those power supplies had the same issue. But I didn't have the problem till about 2 years later... others still have not had the issue.

So even though it is "there"... doesn't mean everyone will experience it.
Just like with the HR20... there are obviously some issues still remaining, but I can setup the EXACT same scenerio on my system and not have the problemt hat the next person has. So even though I have the same software, the same hardware... Same "variables", I still don't have the same problem.



Agrajag said:


> Go check out threads for other products. Mzost of them have people posting concerns about them. THIS forum has all sorts of totally off-the-wall posts about an array of problems regarding this device. It's yet another excuse to say that since all products aren't flawless that this product is no different.


Your right... also go and check www.tivocommunity.com and see all the "off-the-wall posts" that another popular DVR has... or take a look down at the DISH network forums... their DVR's have issues too.


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## linuxworks (Dec 27, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> They are not direct comparisons, but here are some.


you list a few things that, by political policy, don't allow users to save their configs or backups.

there are opposite examples, though, too:

- logitech harmony: saves its settings on your pc in case you need to move them or edit them.

- my last cordless phone/ans mach lets you save (upload) the config and phone book via some web service.

- even my VW car has a computer interface and its not strictly private - so we can dump the ODB2 computer settings to a file for edit or re-upload.

this simply illustrates that its the company's CHOICE whether to let you save your config or data - or not. the customer friendly ones do and, well, the others do not.

but not everyone REFUSES to let their customers save their work or config.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> Never said anything of the sort. Glad it's working for them. It might not be, but that's another topic of discussion.
> ....
> Never said that either. However, as taken as a whole, I'M bashing DirecTV for providing a piece of hardware that clearly has causes so many people to have so much trouble with it as to keep an entire forum continually active with more trouble reports.


Those two comments where not directed at you individually... they where as a whole to the arguments....

See how easy it is to mis-interpret the intent of a post?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Ah the passions stirred here.  That is not a slam, btw. I too am very passionate about my TV, my escapes, and my valued programs that I save. 

What I see is tremendous wisdom and much opportunity for DVR makers to listen to the needs of real users.

Why do we have two DVRs recording our best programs? Because occassionally, stuff happens? Yes, but also sometime we want to watch in a different room.  (1) & (2) 

Do I have some very, very old materials stored on some of my DVRs? You betcha. And since those units will be retired this year and they are SD content, they will get burned to DVD. But I'd rather move them to my new DVR... (3)

And, I have had DVR hard drives die. Ouch! When my VCRs died, they might have eaten a tape. small ouch. When a 35gb, 350gb, 750gb, or 3.5tb drive fails, that becomes a HUGE OUCH! Backups of that data is a required feature at that size. (4) (Yes, HarlyeD is absolutely right, backup requires restore!)

And from time to time, I need to share a recording under fair use. The whole DVR world has to remember that in their designs. Something as simple as "Turn off all messages, popups, warnings, etc." while I play a recording would suffice nicely. (5)

So, to summarize necessary features:
1) Ability to watch a show in different rooms 
2) minimize stuff happens when a disk fails (Raid 5 works.)
3) Upgrade and move programming to new DVR
4) Backup and restore of data
5) Ability to temporarily turn off all OSD while I archive

This is not a list of complaints. This is a list of opportunities for DVR makers as a consequence of much larger hard drives. The one who best incorporate these and other features in future releases will likely also win the DVR war. 

And, as things always go, a whole new technology will emerge and we'll see similar discussions again. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

The bottom line is that consumers have a single responsibility with providers of a service. They pay their bill and have a right to expect the equipment provided works as advertised and designed. 

Was the HR20 designed to fail in the myriad of ways described in these threads? I don't believe so. Thus, it's a failure of the hardware.

ANYTHING beyond that is making an excuse. The reality is that the hardware should work. If it doesn't then it's not the fault of the consumer and the consumer shouldn't have to jump through hoops (like installing 6 devices as a backup) to be certain of getting what he was told he'd get for the initial investment. The customer help up his end by paying his bill. DirecTV needs to hold up their end by providing a product that works reliably for nearly everyone. The rare failures and breaks are to be expected, but these should not fall into the realm of reliable problems or reproduce-able problems that don't get addressed.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

linuxworks said:


> if there WAS a way to backup your shows, THEN I'd agree the user was at fault for not preventing a potential disk crash.


There IS a way - get a 2nd DVR.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

linuxworks said:


> you list a few things that, by political policy, don't allow users to save their configs or backups.
> 
> there are opposite examples, though, too:
> 
> ...


Well then I would argue that one of the primary reasons on why you can't backup your recordings on your HR20 or any DVR that records a DIGITAL version of a program, is political policy. (As the Series 3 TiVo still don't have the same networking features as their Analog SA's)

What does DirecTV care if you pay for the reception of the signal, you pay your bill, you get a program from their stream.... and you then save it on your hard drive, so you can watch it again.

They don't get any more money if you re-watch the same episode of spongebob over and over and over... They already got their cut.

It is the DRM and the content providers that get "bent" over that.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

Thanks everyone.. mostly... I did get a few pointers here and there on how to avoid this in the future. But man DTV still has some issue to deal with.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> The bottom line is that consumers have a single responsibility with providers of a service. They pay their bill and have a right to expect the equipment provided works as advertised and designed.
> 
> Was the HR20 designed to fail in the myriad of ways described in these threads? I don't believe so. Thus, it's a failure of the hardware.
> 
> ANYTHING beyond that is making an excuse. The reality is that the hardware should work. If it doesn't then it's not the fault of the consumer and the consumer shouldn't have to jump through hoops (like installing 6 devices as a backup) to be certain of getting what he was told he'd get for the initial investment. The customer help up his end by paying his bill. DirecTV needs to hold up their end by providing a product that works reliably for nearly everyone. The rare failures and breaks are to be expected, but these should not fall into the realm of reliable problems or reproduce-able problems that don't get addressed.


You are right... the consumer should not have to "jump through hoops"....

But should DirecTV pay for a backup of the system... just in case... even if in most cases it is not necessary? Should I have Microsoft pay for the second license of SQL Server, just in case?

No company wants their product to fail... not DirecTV, not anyone.


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## jimb726 (Jan 9, 2007)

Slyster said:


> Thanks everyone.. mostly... I did get a few pointers here and there on how to avoid this in the future. But man DTV still has some issue to deal with.


I think everyone tried to get across that they empathised with your situation, but many different solutions were offered. Hopefully you have no issues in the future with the thing locking on.:eek2:

Good luck


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But it also doesn't mean they "had" the problem.


In this case it was not so. Any set that was looked at had the problem. Some consumers simply thought it was a part of HDTV (streaks in the picture that went away after X period of time).



> Your right... also go and check www.tivocommunity.com and see all the "off-the-wall posts" that another popular DVR has... or take a look down at the DISH network forums... their DVR's have issues too.


So we have more excuses again. TiVo has issues, Dish has issues. Therefore it's okay that DirecTV has issues. These are EXCUSES. I don't care if everyone else offers lousy service and lousy products. I'm not paying them. I'm paying DirecTV and DirecTV had not held up their end. You'll know we've hit rock bottom when you call DirecTV and one of their reps says, "Well Mr. Smith, you do know that TiVo and Dish stinks too right?"

That you would factor in that these other companies also have issues makes you an apologist. That might be okay with you. It's not okay for me. When DirecTV accepts that I'm lazy and only get around to paying my bill 9 out of 12 times, then you'll have a point. If I called them up and said, "But DirecTV rep, all these other people don't pay their bill on time. It's unacceptable to stand firm on this policy of yours of expecting us to pay our bills reliably. It's just not realistic.

I'm expected to pay my bill, without exception. They are expected to provide reliable service in return, without exception.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> They are not direct comparisons, but here are some.
> 
> XBOX / XBOX360
> There are some games, that will not let you store the saved data files anywhere but the hard drive of the system. You can not back them up to a memory card, nor can you extract them from the hard drive.
> ...


My point exactly. None of these have proven to be as prone to data loss as some of these HR20s have so the inability to back them up is more of a non-issue.

That's all.


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## PeeWee10 (Dec 13, 2006)

Getting back to the original problem reported, is there any data surrounding the conditions by which the "stuck on record" problem happens?

So far, I've had this happen to me just once..It happened when I did a keyword search, located a showing, and selected option to record that showing.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> My point exactly. None of these have proven to be as prone to data loss as some of these HR20s have so the inability to back them up is more of a non-issue.
> 
> That's all.


Tell that to my Son who lost all of his saved games when the XBOX decided to clear them out for some reason...

The HR20 is also not "prone" to do what the OP had happen.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But should DirecTV pay for a backup of the system... just in case... even if in most cases it is not necessary? Should I have Microsoft pay for the second license of SQL Server, just in case?


No, but should they reap additional profit if I choose to take measuers back it up against the instability of the original product?

That would be the result of operating redundant DVRs to protect the chances I actually get my programming as you suggested.

The carrier would be making more money off my guarding against their unreliability.

Hardly seems proper.

"Here's our product. It fails sometimes so you better buy two, and pay us an additional monthly fee."

Are you kidding me??


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> I'm expected to pay my bill, without exception. They are expected to provide reliable service in return, without exception.


Reliable service is not promised as PERFECT service, and for good reason. ALL products like these have some failures. And I'm not going to apologize for DirecTV OR to YOU. If there was a show/shows or content that was so important to me that I wanted to save and keep, yes I would have a second DVR and I WOULD have another copy of it ( in fact there is 1 show I do have saved on both of my units).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> So we have more excuses again. TiVo has issues, Dish has issues. Therefore it's okay that DirecTV has issues. These are EXCUSES. I don't care if everyone else offers lousy service and lousy products. I'm not paying them. I'm paying DirecTV and DirecTV had not held up their end. You'll know we've hit rock bottom when you call DirecTV and one of their reps says, "Well Mr. Smith, you do know that TiVo and Dish stinks too right?"


No that is not an excuse, as I didn't state it was okay for them to have issues because other do... you are saying I said that (with this reply)

*YOU* used the argument that based on the off-the-wall posts here in this forum as a basis of measurement of the issue level. I used the same argument that the other product that was so "easily left behind", also has issues... so that we could be here in the exact same boat... even if the HR20 never existed.



Agrajag said:


> That you would factor in that these other companies also have issues makes you an apologist. That might be okay with you. It's not okay for me. When DirecTV accepts that I'm lazy and only get around to paying my bill 9 out of 12 times, then you'll have a point. If I called them up and said, "But DirecTV rep, all these other people don't pay their bill on time. It's unacceptable to stand firm on this policy of yours of expecting us to pay our bills reliably. It's just not realistic.
> 
> I'm expected to pay my bill, without exception. They are expected to provide reliable service in return, without exception.


Does saying anything against what you think or believe, make me (or anyone) and apologist... no one has apologized for anything in this thread.

NO where... you keep saying that we are... but we are not. 
You may want to think we are... but we are not.

I could be here saying that you are just now here to BASH DirecTV, their switch from the TiVo platform, and their newest products.....


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

And BTW, my daughter has a DVD/VCR combo unit, so if I wanted to make a tape I could also. I believe the OP was discussing SD recordings - so that is ALSO a possibility for him.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> No, but should they reap additional profit if I choose to take measuers back it up against the instability of the original product?
> 
> That would be the result of operating redundant DVRs to protect the chances I actually get my programming as you suggested.
> 
> ...


Then what about the cases, where people have called... gotten a second dvr (for free), and have gotten a credit for either the DVR service or for the mirroring fee, or some other credit that offsets any "profit" they are making.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

It's funny, but if the HR20 had a success rate of 95% plus (which I think it should) we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?

And historically, D* has given me next to nothing but a story when I have problems or complaints.

I don't know how these other folks do it. Maybe I need to be a loudmouthed jerk when I call. Instead I'm usually pretty nice and even tempered.

Go figure.

Besides, that would be REactive. If I understood, you were suggesting PROactively configuring redundant DVRs as precaution. 

I don't think they'd give me a freebie before I had a problem. Maybe I'm mistaken.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Perhaps DirecTV's BBVOD initiative can be used for some of this. DirecTV may actually be able to store many of the shows that were lost and then restore them to you in the event of failure. In a perfect world, DirecTV would store a copy of every single program and a user of the HR20 could download it to their system via the network for a nominal fee. This would potentially solve the OPs problem.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

ScoBuck said:


> Reliable service is not promised as PERFECT service, and for good reason. ALL products like these have some failures. And I'm not going to apologize for DirecTV OR to YOU. If there was a show/shows or content that was so important to me that I wanted to save and keep, yes I would have a second DVR and I WOULD have another copy of it ( in fact there is 1 show I do have saved on both of my units).


And, as I've suggested, you're an apologist. Just accept that and realize that there are others of us who are not and expect things to work without having to jump through such ridiculous hoops.

If my payments aren't reliable, my service is disconnected. They expect me to be nearly perfect in that regard. I expect the same from them. That you're willing to throw money away and expect little in return is for you to justify. If everyone worked like you worked, DirecTV would love that. In fact, I'd bet their bean counters would start factoring you in. "Make sure we keep it just unreliable enough so that the apologists will spend more to pay for 2, 3 or 4 or more boxes. That'll bring in an additional X revenue every month."

Sorry, I can only sleep at night being on the pure consumer side of things.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

HarleyD said:


> It's funny, but if the HR20 had a success rate of 95% plus (which I think it should) we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?


Sure they do, people love to complain. 

I can remember huge flame wars very similar to this one on the Tivo Community a few years back, after it had been out for a few years. All it takes is for one person to have an issue and the flaming begins if people aren't in a mood to help.

Oh yea, calls of "Tivo Apologists", "drinking the Tivo coolaid" and "Tivo bashers" and "Replay/UTV lovers" were everywhere. 
"*MY* Tivo doesn't have any of those issues"
"My Replay never has that problem, Tivo sucks"

Ahhh, the good old days.

Some things never change I guess.


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## pchilson (Jan 8, 2007)

Agrajag said:


> The bottom line is that consumers have a single responsibility with providers of a service. They pay their bill and have a right to expect the equipment provided works as advertised and designed.
> 
> Was the HR20 designed to fail in the myriad of ways described in these threads? I don't believe so. Thus, it's a failure of the hardware.
> 
> ANYTHING beyond that is making an excuse. The reality is that the hardware should work. If it doesn't then it's not the fault of the consumer and the consumer shouldn't have to jump through hoops (like installing 6 devices as a backup) to be certain of getting what he was told he'd get for the initial investment. The customer help up his end by paying his bill. DirecTV needs to hold up their end by providing a product that works reliably for nearly everyone. The rare failures and breaks are to be expected, but these should not fall into the realm of reliable problems or reproduce-able problems that don't get addressed.


I agree with your views on this. I think, to take this a bit further, setting all the issues aside, if DTV would allow recourse for unreliable service (ie..all the stated issues with the HR20) then the consumer would have a viable "choice" to exercise.
A reasonable "opt out" period as in "No thanks, it just is not working for me" with no penalty would be an acceptable solution to this whole mess.
If I upgrade my equipment to HD capable, re-commit to another 24 months of service and I then experience the "bad" side of the HR20 I think it reasonable to be given say 30 days to opt out and go back to my former level of service and equipment and have my commitment reset to what it was prior to the upgrade.
To Earl: That is what I would like DirecTV to do...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

pchilson said:


> To Earl: That is what I would like DirecTV to do...


Call DirecTV and ask.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

This is geting way too unfriendly for my tastes. I can agree to disagree.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Agrajag said:


> And, as I've suggested, you're an apologist. Just accept that and realize that there are others of us who are not and expect things to work without having to jump through such ridiculous hoops.
> 
> If my payments aren't reliable, my service is disconnected. They expect me to be nearly perfect in that regard. I expect the same from them. That you're willing to throw money away and expect little in return is for you to justify. If everyone worked like you worked, DirecTV would love that. In fact, I'd bet their bean counters would start factoring you in. "Make sure we keep it just unreliable enough so that the apologists will spend more to pay for 2, 3 or 4 or more boxes. That'll bring in an additional X revenue every month."
> 
> Sorry, I can only sleep at night being on the pure consumer side of things.


Ahh, good stuff.

I'm no apologist but I also don't stress about such things like you obviously do. Live is too short. I just accept that all big business sucks and they are all out to get me in the end. I just do what I can to be happy and move one. Thus, no stress.


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## ScoBuck (Mar 5, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> And, as I've suggested, you're an apologist.


Yeah - you must know best I guess. But if I am an apologist, I am only apologizing for reality (certainly NOT for DirecTV), while you seem to be demanding a dream.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> So we have more excuses again. TiVo has issues, Dish has issues. Therefore it's okay that DirecTV has issues. These are EXCUSES. I don't care if everyone else offers lousy service and lousy products. I'm not paying them. I'm paying DirecTV and DirecTV had not held up their end. You'll know we've hit rock bottom when you call DirecTV and one of their reps says, "Well Mr. Smith, you do know that TiVo and Dish stinks too right?"
> 
> That you would factor in that these other companies also have issues makes you an apologist. That might be okay with you. It's not okay for me. When DirecTV accepts that I'm lazy and only get around to paying my bill 9 out of 12 times, then you'll have a point. If I called them up and said, "But DirecTV rep, all these other people don't pay their bill on time. It's unacceptable to stand firm on this policy of yours of expecting us to pay our bills reliably. It's just not realistic.
> 
> I'm expected to pay my bill, without exception. They are expected to provide reliable service in return, without exception.


+1

I've yet to see a more succinct post about this and agree wholeheartedly with what you've said.

No disrespect intended, but since we've received our HR20 and started reading/posting here, the excuses for the HR20 have always confounded me.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

HarleyD said:


> This is geting way too unfriendly for my tastes. I can agree to disagree.


Agreed.  As I just posted, life it too short to get all worked up over something so trivial.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Now I am stepping into moderator role...
As the OP has stated via PM, he got his answer.

Some of the participants of this thread have stated they "are done"... or at least we agree to disagree.

This thread will stay open til 1:45pm CST (17 minutes)..
Get your last comments in...

As we can continue to hash this until the Cubs win the world series, and we probably still all won't agree.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Marcia_Brady said:


> +1
> 
> I've yet to see a more succinct post about this and agree wholeheartedly with what you've said.
> 
> No disrespect intended, but since we've received our HR20 and started reading/posting here, the excuses for the HR20 have always confounded me.


Of course, you are not alone on that front. In fact, it's at the heart of this entire HR20 issue. It's the most confusing aspect of this entire process, and it's been going on in different forms since early September. Why are some so afraid to criticize Directv outright? Not sure. Ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome? Could be one explanation, in much more benign form, of course.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Back to OP. Sorry it happened. I had an SD recording go 74 hours back a few releases. Didn't record anything else on that HR20 during the time. I hope these problems will go away very, very soon.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As we can continue to hash this until the Cubs win the world series, and we probably still all won't agree.


Well, I'm not much into basketball but if the thing would just consistantly record and playback, I think _most_ of us would agree.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> *YOU* used the argument that based on the off-the-wall posts here in this forum as a basis of measurement of the issue level. I used the same argument that the other product that was so "easily left behind", also has issues... so that we could be here in the exact same boat... even if the HR20 never existed.


Earl, my post related to the product at hand. Your post attempted to twist the argument by comparing this device to what other providers are experiencing. That's, sorry, an excuse move.



> Does saying anything against what you think or believe, make me (or anyone) and apologist... no one has apologized for anything in this thread.


Most apologists have no idea that's what they're doing. Sort of the conundrum of the issue. When you're suggesting to people that their answers lie, not with the service provider, but with adding layers of redundancy that should not be necessary, that's the typical mark of an apologist. When you point to how bad things are everywhere else, that's the mark of an apologist.



> I could be here saying that you are just now here to BASH DirecTV, their switch from the TiVo platform, and their newest products.....


You could except that I told you that myself several posts ago. I am bashing them. I believe they deserve it right now. I've also been a customer since 1994 so I think my loyalty speaks for itself in that regard. I'm a loyal customer who is growing increasingly disenchanted. We're continually promised one thing and given another. This has been going on for years now. I bought into DirecTV because they offered a clearly superior product. It had a much better picture. It had far more channels that Cable. It had better features. It cost half as much. It offered things like west coast feeds. It had better set top boxes.

I used to have a list of about 14 reasons why DirecTV was clearly superior to the alternatives. These days I struggle to find one or two. The main reasons I stick with DirecTV today:

1) Comcast will cost $50 more than I want to spend though I will also get more channels for that and access to OnDemand and the Philly Comcast SportsNet.

2) FiOS isn't available in my neighborhood. I read just this morning that they got the okay to run underground fiber into my neighborhood so it shouldn't be too much longer. I'll be dumping Comcast for Internet for sure. DirecTV is now also being considered for replacement if they don't wake up.

3) Pure inertia. I've been with DirecTV since the beginning and like the idea of teh technology but I find myself having to make my own excuses for sticking with it these days. As you can tell, I don't like being in that boat. Before I could point people to my Sony set top box and we could all laugh at how much better it was than the silly cable box. Today that's not possible. Instead we get promises that never materialize. We're supposedly the leaders in HD (where'd that campaign go?) with less HD than most everyone else. When I first got DirecTV we had 33 movie channels compared to cable's 14. Now we have a couple more while cable has 70.


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## jheda (Sep 19, 2006)

Slyster said:


> Thanks everyone.. mostly... I did get a few pointers here and there on how to avoid this in the future. But man DTV still has some issue to deal with.


I hope this thread demonstrated to you the passion we have for our entertainment products, our hr-20 and our liesure time.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Marcia_Brady said:


> Well, I'm not much into basketball but if the thing would just consistantly record and playback, I think _most_ of us would agree.


LMAO


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Agrajag said:


> Most apologists have no idea that's what they're doing. Sort of the conundrum of the issue. When you're suggesting to people that their answers lie, not with the service provider, but with adding layers of redundancy that should not be necessary, that's the typical mark of an apologist. When you point to how bad things are everywhere else, that's the mark of an apologist.


We are going to have to disagree on the definition of apologist then.
As clearly we have a difference of opinion.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

tstarn said:


> Of course, you are not alone on that front. In fact, it's at the heart of this entire HR20 issue. It's the most confusing aspect of this entire process, and it's been going on in different forms since early September. Why are some so afraid to criticize Directv outright? Not sure. Ever heard of the Stockholm Syndrome? Could be one explanation, in much more benign form, of course.


Hey, I'll admit that DirecTV screwed the pooch. But what is done is done and doesn't change the present. Too many people want to dwell on the past instead of move on into the future.

Ok, I got to actually get some work done. Bonscott Out.


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## Marcia_Brady (Nov 25, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> We are going to have to disagree on the definition of apologist then.


Oooh, I dunno about that one Earl:

_Apologist: a person who argues to defend or justify some policy, institution or satellite television provider._

:eek2:

*I just added the "satellite television provider part." :lol:


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

ScoBuck said:


> Yeah - you must know best I guess. But if I am an apologist, I am only apologizing for reality (certainly NOT for DirecTV), while you seem to be demanding a dream.


Funny how I seem to live that dream with other products I invest in. When Comcast, as much as I have issues with them, has a problem, I call, point it out and they make it up to me. I had a problem with my audio receiver and Sony went out of their way to take care of it. I just got VoIP at home and when I ran into an issue (to be expected in cutting edge technology) a rep there took the time to work with me personally to get it resolved. When it turned out to be a problem in their software he took the time to make sure it was resolved internally and even called me to tell me the problem was rectified.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Marcia_Brady said:


> Oooh, I dunno about that one Earl:
> 
> _Apologist: a person who argues to defend or justify some policy, institution or satellite television provider._
> 
> ...


By that definition... we are all apologists.

And with that...
The thread is closed....


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