# Need help with receivers using 169.254 addresses



## jeff d (Feb 10, 2015)

sorry if this is covered elsewhere, but you can't search for "169.254" because the search engine filters out the '.'s

Here's the situation, I'm having a problem with my network due to the DirecTV (DTV) receivers and what they do on the network.

If I reset a receiver the traffic on the net doesn't make a lot of sense.

Here's what I see:

nearly instantly the

I get lots of these PNP SSDP messages from each of the receivers, but the router ignores because of the address being used:

May 3 00:45:59 unknown daemon.warn miniupnpd[11734]: SSDP packet sender 169.254.220.111:49152 not from a LAN, ignoring
May 3 00:47:02 unknown daemon.warn miniupnpd[11734]: SSDP packet sender 169.254.231.147:49152 not from a LAN, ignoring
May 3 01:00:11 unknown daemon.warn miniupnpd[11734]: SSDP packet sender 169.254.181.103:49152 not from a LAN, ignoring

While this is happening the receivers are still starting up and haven't yet made DHCP requests.

After a while I see the DHCP request traffic for each of the receivers:

DHCPDISCOVER(br0)
DHCPOFFER(br0)
DHCPREQUEST(br0)
DHCPACK(br0)

Everything looks good when check the ARP entries I see:

C:\Users\Jeff>arp -a
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.0.210 70-76-30-aa-bb-cc dynamic
192.168.0.211 00-18-9b-qq-tt-ss dynamic
192.168.0.212 00-26-24-xx-yy-zz dynamic

The .210, .211 and .212 are the receivers.

But the UPNP messages continue using the 169.254 addresses which continue to be ignored.

But after a while, these addresses make their way into the ARP table and the entries include:
C:\Users\Jeff>arp -a
Internet Address Physical Address Type
* 169.254.181.103 00-26-24-xx-yy-zz dynamic
169.254.220.111 00-18-9b-qq-rr-ss dynamic
169.254.231.147 70-76-30-aa-bb-cc dynamic*
192.168.0.210 *70-76-30-aa-bb-cc* dynamic
192.168.0.211 _*00-18-9b-qq-tt-ss*_ dynamic
192.168.0.212 _*00-26-24-xx-yy-zz*_ dynamic

The duplicate entries per MAC doesn't look good!

Since the DHCP requests are handled correctly it doesn't make sense the 169.254 addresses continue to be used for the UPNP messages.

Does this make sense? Any ideas why these boxes which have just been restarted are using these 169.254 even after DHCP requests have been made and filled?


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

First you don't mention if it's wired or wifi, or the model. I would go into DVR network setting and use reset network, a restart does not do that. The 169 addresses look like they use a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 but the 192 looks like it uses 255.255.255.0. So the DVRs macs are on a different network AND subnet. I can't imagine how they got that way unless you changed routers or something like that. Do the network reset, if that does not work go into network advanced and make sure it's using DHCP.

Also, you dont mention if you restarted the router which you should also do.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

The 169 addresses are used for whole home DVR service. I don't know all the details but they are there no matter what.
Even with DHCP assigned addresses or without.

Genie clients look for the 169 addresses.


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## jeff d (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks guys, sorry I didn't mention wired network. Everything in this place is wired.
The router reboots nightly as a maintenance thing. But every device is static DHCP, so there should be no problem with mis-matched IP and MAC addresses.

A reset won't reset the network configuration? That's interesting. Do you know what aspect are preserved? Are you suggesting the 169.254 address could have been from a past problem setup? That would explain a lot if that's how it works. I'll give it a try, but one box is currently without a TV so that could be difficult until the family room renovations are done.


My big concern is that a single MAC has two different IP addresses, I get these are different subnets, but I also don't understand how I got to this point. (although I'll investigate the new light on this point)


In response to NR4P's comment, why wouldn't whole home thing t just put traffic out to the 192 addresses? What benefit is gained from putting traffic on the same wires with different subnets? The packets still get routed through the same network.


Is there any preferred way these systems should be turned on? I've got HR20, HR24 and HR44. The HR44 (genie). The other question I have is, I think the receivers need to be connected during startup in order to correctly do the DCHP request, it seems that if there's ever an issue and a DVR powers up before the path to the router is fully online then the DVR will remain without an IP address until it's restarted. Is there any truth this guess?


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## b52pooh (Mar 10, 2011)

Since the whole home network for the receivers works without being connected to a router, i.e. no internet, I doubt that the receivers are without an IP address.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I believe the point of the 169 address is to ensure that all the Whole Home Service traffic is kept completely separated from the rest of your network and to make sure that it should work even if your home network is down. 

I don't understand what the real issue is here? Problems during a reboot shouldn't be a concern since they only reboot usually when there's a software update and any issue that causes would be gone by the time it finishes rebooting. 

Why do you have your router rebooting nightly? I have never heard of this...


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I'd say if you're rebooting your router nightly you're trying to avoid / camouflage a problem on your network or router.

The 169.x.x.x addresses are inherent in every TCP/IP item. It's used primarily if the device doesn't receive a valid IP address from either a DHCP server or a static setting. It's also non-routable.

In the early days of Whole Home (and even now), you could connect your dvrs without a dhcp server or internet connection and WH would work. Same for the Genie / Clients. DTV just chose to keep the Server / Client communication local on the 169.

You can assign as many addresses to a PC network card and it has the same MAC address. MACs are a unique physical address.


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## jeff d (Feb 10, 2015)

dennisj00 said:


> I'd say if you're rebooting your router nightly you're trying to avoid / camouflage a problem on your network or router.
> 
> The 169.x.x.x addresses are inherent in every TCP/IP item. It's used primarily if the device doesn't receive a valid IP address from either a DHCP server or a static setting. It's also non-routable.
> 
> ...


That is a good guess on ebooting the router, but the reason isn't internal. My ISP was having issues with the modem losing its connection or some other problem which caused it do slow down with external traffic (we're talking in 4800baud rates). By power cycle the modem daily things work great. I reboot the router a few minutes after the modem has restarted just to ensure everyone is "update to date" and the router will function fine. No internal LAN issues, it's got more to do with reaching the outside world and directly tied to the modem, which is a good modem. The ISP is crap.

The issue which caused me to start researching the network is having with the DVRs online is my network traffic started to slow down and I lost local access to a Vera3. There's no DVR sharing happening and net traffic is fairly low, but the delays I'm seeing are like DNS timeouts, and the delay before that gets resolved. I started looking around the net for IP conflicts and other things which lead me to the duplicate MACs which lead to the DVRs with to IPs on the same NIC (I've never heard of this, but I guess it shouldn't be an issue with the network) since the ARP stuff is IP->MAC resolution not MAC->IP resolution. But taking the DVRs off the network eliminates the problem so I suspected there is a connection between multiple IPs or the 169.254 addresses.

But I haven't tracked that down. I investigated this DVR IP thing to eliminate that from the suspects.
Disconnecting the DVRs and no network slowdown could be a coincidence.

During this process I've been rethinking the WH DVR thing. Last I looked at this was 6-12 months ago. I'm also now confused as to how I'm setup. I thought I was LAN, but maybe I'm a DVR coax net? The HR24 lists the Network as "Coax Connected" and Internet as "Connected", the other DVRs list the Network as "Connected". I'm not sure what that means, I didn't think I am using the coax for media sharing, but maybe I am? I'm flashing back to 6 months ago when I had some dvr sharing issues but I don't recall if the DVRs are wired into the LAN with RJ45 or coax. I thought the WH adapter is needed for the coax network and that's sitting in the box. Maybe it was just easier to tie the STBs into the LAN than to add a coax network adapter to the system.

One thing I'm sure about... I'm getting to old for this!


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## jeff d (Feb 10, 2015)

Holy @($()$ this got confusing quickly!
I decided to look into getting the receivers OFF the LAN and now I'm questioning if this is a good idea or not.
I'm also completely confused by DireTVs lovely networking, I now understand why they push coax-networking only.

Refresher, my equipment: HR20, HR24 and HR44 (full disclosure, I also have old Tivo HDDRV2s in the house, but on a dedicated second signal network with its own dish, multiswitches and cables). My house has a WIRED LAN and the WLAN is only used by guests and that's not a lot of traffic.
I've also been with Directv since day 1, so I've got more old equipment in storage than most have ever seen. With these last 2-3 generations of hardware I've become lost and I don't fully understand how I should be hooking everything up. Maybe I should attend some of those installer classes!

I had network questions a while ago and was pushed a CCK, fliters and DECAs but didn't connect the CCK. A DECA is currently attached to the HR20.
I currently have the ethernet port on all DVRs connected connected to something.
The HR24 shows networking status as "coax connected" and Internet as "connected"

What would be the best setup given the hardware I have?
If I understand the material I've read I think I'm just about at a complete coax networking stage.

What I think maybe the best setup:
HR44, connect this box to the LAN and let the internal CCK control the coax network.
HR24, remove the LAN cable and let the box run all network traffic over coax (It may be running this way at the moment)
HR20, leave the DECA attached with ethernet patch betwen deca and receiver.

At this point would my Whole Home traffic be limited to the coax network?
Any internet traffic from the HR20 or HR24 would use the coax-network and the HR44 acts as the gateway to the LAN, right?

Is the HR44 CCK just a fancy LAN/coax-network interface acting as a switch for the LAN traffic? Shouldn't the HR44's CCK act as a gateway? If the HR44 is a gateway/router the 169.254 addresses could be local to the coax network and not seen on the LAN, nor would each DVR need a LAN IP. I'm still not clear why there is a need for two IPs for each DVR.
Is it possible to get the HR20 and HR24 out of my LAN IP address space?


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

jeff d said:


> Holy @($()$ this got confusing quickly!
> I decided to look into getting the receivers OFF the LAN and now I'm questioning if this is a good idea or not.
> I'm also completely confused by DireTVs lovely networking, I now understand why they push coax-networking only.
> 
> ...


Your bolded paragraph should be the plan. Just be sure you only have one connection from your LAN to the coax network (either the HR44 or a separate CCK. The 34,44,54s can act as a CCK.

Why are you concerned of getting the DVRs out of your IP address space? I would set them each a static address outside of your DHCP range. A valid IP address is necessary for internet functions like On-demand and TV Apps.

Don't worry about the 169.x.x.x addresses. They're built in to the equipment, mean nothing to your router and are just there if you don't have a local LAN. (and the communication with the Genie / minis.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

I would rethink the whole nightly rebooting the modem and router. Its just masking a problem.
If it's your ISP, get them to fix the issue.
If it's the router, consider a new one.

Sooner or later you will find these reboots screw something up. Maybe a PPV or VOD movie download. 
More and more traffic is coming over the internet with Hulu, Netflix, Vudu etc so maybe you can nip the problem now.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

jeff d said:


> I had network questions a while ago and was pushed a CCK, fliters and DECAs but didn't connect the CCK. A DECA is currently attached to the HR20.
> I currently have the ethernet port on all DVRs connected connected to something.


This could be part of the issue. You should not have ethernet connected to the HR24 if you also have a DECA on the HR20, and ethernet on the HR44.



jeff d said:


> What I think maybe the best setup:
> HR44, connect this box to the LAN and let the internal CCK control the coax network.
> HR24, remove the LAN cable and let the box run all network traffic over coax (It may be running this way at the moment)
> HR20, leave the DECA attached with ethernet patch betwen deca and receiver.


Like Dennisj00 said, this should be the way you set it up. Leave the DECA and short ethernet cable hooked up to the HR20.

Get rid of the ethernet on the HR24, just have the coax hooked up. Make sure there isn't a bandstop filter on it.

Hook up ethernet and coax to the HR44. It would probably be a good idea to reset network defaults on the HR44 afterward and make sure you are using the wired connection and not wireless.

Hopefully this will take care of your issues.


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