# D* CSR said D* is going to stop supporting TiVo??



## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

I've been thinking about upgrading my Hughes DirecTiVo hard drive for a couple of weeks. In order to get to 140 hours of record time on my TiVo it will cost me about $150 (including a new fan). 

I started thinking that for $50 cheaper, I could get another R15 from D*. So, I called D* last night to inquire about getting an R15 through them (instead of buying from Best Buy or Circuit City). OK, I'll admit it . . . I was trying to weasel a FREE R15 out of them - no go. I actually got connected to a very nice CSR. She and I went over the pros and cons of upgrading the TiVo unit. At the end of that discussion, she said something that kind of stopped me in my tracks. According to her, D* may stop supporting DirecTiVo units in 2009. Does anyone know if this is true? I've been searching for info but can't find anything concrete. I did find a couple of articles over at Engadget that implied there was an agreement between D* and TiVo that would expire eventually, but no mention of a timeline.

I LOVE my D*TiVo, and would love to upgrade it, but . . . I don't want to put money into it if it's going to stop working sometime soon.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

TiVo will continue to be supporte till at least 2011 when the contrat ends


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> TiVo will continue to be supporte till at least 2011 when the contrat ends


I suspect that the end in 2009 comment comes from the requirement that broadcasters move to all digital. She probably doesn't understand that, and assumes "digital" means "HD" and that therefore means D* will stop support. Neither is valid.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

2011 is enough of a ROI to do the upgrade. THANKS!

I doubt I'll even have D* by that time, since I'm planning to dump D* for AT&T U-verse when my contract is up.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

sNEIRBO said:


> 2011 is enough of a ROI to do the upgrade. THANKS!
> 
> I doubt I'll even have D* by that time, since I'm planning to dump D* for AT&T U-verse when my contract is up.


U-verse currently supports one (1) active HD channel to each household (plus 4 SD ones).


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> U-verse currently supports one (1) active HD channel to each household (plus 4 SD ones).


That would never work in my house  So much for dual tuners .. Can't even use two devices at the same time (different channels)


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> U-verse currently supports one (1) active HD channel to each household (plus 4 SD ones).


The operative word in what you said was "CURRENTLY". They are also currently running mostly MPEG2 for their HD as well.

You can currently get 4 streams into a house, up to 4 SD channels or 1 HD and 2 SD. An HD stream takes up 2 streams.

They are converting over to MPEG4, and when they do, they will allow up to 6 streams at a time into each house. So when they do their upgrade you'd be able to get any combination of 6 streams - up to 3 HD channels or 6 SD channels or any combination of the two.

The IP systems are really cool, but have their limitations. U-verse has not activated their WHOLE HOUSE DVR yet either. You can only get 1 DVR per household, and right now that will only play on 1 TV. Eventually you'll be able to network the DVR to the other receivers, so they can watch anything that has been, or is being, recorded on the DVR. That isn't slated to be activated until Q1 2008 - which wouldn't work for me, and ultimately led me to D*.

Their DVR will eventually be able to handle 2 HD recordings and 2 SD recordings all at the same time. Right now it can only handle 1 HD and 2 SD, or up to 4 SD at a time.

They claim their HD availability and PQ will blow SAT and Cable away . . . eventually. Because they run off of IP, they don't have to deliver all of the channels to your house all of the time. They only have to deliver what you're watching. So they don't have all the bandwidth issues the other providers have. If you're only watching 3 HD channels, that's all they deliver to your house - they don't have to deliver all of the channels you're NOT watching. It's really cool stuff.

I'm confident that in 2 years, they will have their system tweaked out and I'll jump ship to them when I am out of my D* contract.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

still sounds limiting to me if their ultimate goal is to allow only 3 HD streams into the house at one time. Perhaps that would be fine in most situations, but I can see this being a problem as more an more content comes to us in HD.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

It would still be too limiting here in my house...
It would be intresting to see what the results would be like with:
TWO HD Streams going... VPN connection to work, kid talking on Vonage, and a MSDN download going in the background.. 

It will work for a lot of installations, but... the technology has to get there and "here" (as AT&T has a lot of work to do in Illinois)

----

And in that same two years... who knows what will be available on DirecTV.
MRV could be here in full swing (whole house DVR)... DoD and other aspects as well...

2 years is an eternity in the technology world


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I suspect that DIRECTV will keep supporting TiVo as long as people are willing to pay for it, but they will offer you a lot to switch to a DIRECTV DVR, because they can recoup the cost of a DVR in 12-18 months given that they have to share the DVR fee with TiVo Inc. when you have a DirecTivo.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It would still be too limiting here in my house...
> It would be intresting to see what the results would be like with:
> TWO HD Streams going... VPN connection to work, kid talking on Vonage, and a MSDN download going in the background..
> 
> ...


Their modem splits the bandwidth - up to 6Mbps for data, 24Mbps for TV - the bands never overlap. What you'd be doing for data, would have no impact on the TV feeds.

In my case, 3 HD streams would be more than I can watch / manipulate with D* right now, as I can only watch 1 HD program, while another is being recorded. And even with 3 DVRs in the house now, a lot of the time all 3 are recording the same thing just so they can be watched in different rooms at different times.

With no capacity limitations, U-verse will be able to offer any/every HD channel available w/o having to worry about launching more Satellites to be able to keep up.

Their packages are comparable to D*s. You can get 4 HD Receivers, the full PREMIERE size package, AND your high speed internet for $114/month, with $0 start up costs. For most people that would be a $25 - $40 savings per month. They're also supposed to start offering AT&T Callvantage as part of the package after the first of the year - there's another $25 - $50 savings for phone service.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

THere are some nights when we record 4 HD shows at the same time, though luckily it is not that common or we would never catch up.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

How long are they guaranteeing that price for? I can't tell you about that package but I can tell you that cable companies around here run promotional rates all the time, and when you're locked in, the rate jumps, precipitously.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Given the impending transition of some SD services to MPEG4 and HD, I'm not sure a relatively large investment in an SD receiver is warranted. Maybe you've committed to not going HD for the next two to four years but I bet you won't wait that long.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

harsh said:


> Given the impending transition of some SD services to MPEG4 and HD, I'm not sure a relatively large investment in an SD receiver is warranted. Maybe you've committed to not going HD for the next two to four years but I bet you won't wait that long.


Are you saying that all programming is going to MPEG4, even SD? Via D*?? Or everything (Cable, OTA)??

Or are you saying that with all of the channels migrating over to HD, I will want to switch to all HDTVs to enjoy all of the high definition goodness available??

I have an HR20 hooked up to my HDTV in the Living Room - that is the ONLY HDTV I ever intend to buy, regardless of how much content gets converted to HD. I will NEVER put an HDTV in my bedroom, my daughter's room, behind my bar nor in the basement. Those 4 TVs will always be SDTVs, and are currently hooked up to either the R15 or my DirecTiVo. Those TVs may get replaced as they age, but they will never be upgraded to HDTVs.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

sNEIRBO said:


> Those TVs may get replaced as they age, but they will never be upgraded to HDTVs.


As months go on: I would suspect, that anything over a certain size would be hard to get as SD only.


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## Mike728 (Oct 29, 2007)

sNEIRBO said:


> I will NEVER put an HDTV in my bedroom, my daughter's room, behind my bar nor in the basement. Those 4 TVs will always be SDTVs, and are currently hooked up to either the R15 or my DirecTiVo. Those TVs may get replaced as they age, but they will never be upgraded to HDTVs.


So, you're going to buy used TV's when the break down in a few years?


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

sNEIRBO said:


> I will NEVER put an HDTV in my bedroom, my daughter's room, behind my bar nor in the basement. Those 4 TVs will always be SDTVs, and are currently hooked up to either the R15 or my DirecTiVo. Those TVs may get replaced as they age, but they will never be upgraded to HDTVs.


Thats kind of a ballsy statement... Why are you so sure they will NEVER be replaced with HDTV's?
And WTF is your prejudice against HDTV's?


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

CJTE said:


> Thats kind of a ballsy statement... Why are you so sure they will NEVER be replaced with HDTV's?
> And WTF is your prejudice against HDTV's?


To begin with - I do not have a "prejudice" against HDTV. I LOVE my HDTV that is part of my Home Theatre, but I am NOT going to spend several hundreds of dollars per TV to replace four TVs that are normally only watched for MINUTES per day. It's a simple cost benefit analysis.

I don't need or want HD in the bedrooms, the basement or behind the bar. The bedroom TVs are both under 19" and only get watched while dozing off at night. The TV behind the bar is only 13" and is only turned on during parties about 6 times per year. SDTVs are still readily available in those sizes at very affordable prices.

The basement TV is a 52" Projection TV that is used everyday for about an hour while I work out. I got that TV from my Brother when he upgraded to his HDTV - when that dies, it will not be replaced. I can watch my iPhone while working out, just as easily as watching that TV.

So therefore I can GUARANTEE that I will NEVER replace those TVs with HDTVs, because quite simply - I will NOT pay the money to replace them with HDTVs!

I can't imagine that SDTV will ever cease to exist in this country. The majority of the people in this country are not going to replace _*every*_ TV in their house with HDTVs - it's just not going to happen. Is D* going to replace every SD receiver in their customer base with MPEG4 receivers?? Something tells me they would rather downconvert the format and continue to use the SD receivers in the field, than replace all of them.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

sNEIRBO said:


> I can't imagine that SDTV will ever cease to exist in this country. The majority of the people in this country are not going to replace _*every*_ TV in their house with HDTVs - it's just not going to happen. Is D* going to replace every SD receiver in their customer base with MPEG4 receivers?? Something tells me they would rather downconvert the format and continue to use the SD receivers in the field, than replace all of them.


No, but I do see a day where you won't be able to buy a TV not capable of accepting an HD signal (regardless how it is ultimately displayed)


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I see that day today... as of 3/1/07 all TVs manufactured must have ATSC tuners

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_tuner


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

sNEIRBO,

You're very confusing to me. You state you want U-Verse when your contract is up. That's fine, it's your prerogative. But you say so many other things that confuse me. You mention several times about how U-Verse will have distribution between DVR's (as if that's important to you). However, D* will have that at some point too. You mention that you currently have 3 DVR's and sometimes they're recording the same thing so that it can be watched in different rooms. Did you know you can already distribute signals around the house?
I have 3 DVR's too. 2 of them are networked already (and the third could be if I wanted to do it). Those 2 DVR's can be watched from ANY of the 8 TV's in the house. We never record the same thing on 2 different units. Distribution units are very simple and very cheap to implement.
Now, the catch is that the signal that's distributed is SD, not HD. So, after reading most of your posts I wasn't even going to comment because most people want HD in all their rooms. Then I read that you don't ever even want HD in more rooms. Then what the heck are you waiting for? I've had a distribution system set up for 3 YEARS. Perfect SD going to every room.
You also spend a lot of time talking about how much more HD, U-Verse will eventually have. But yet you don't enjoy HD enough to justify having it on more than 1 TV. Very confusing.
Even if U-Verse has 1000 HD channels in the next 2 years, what's the big deal? If I never got another HD channel, I'd be pretty happy. 99% of the programs I watch are already on HD channels. I don't need HD shopping channels and HD prayer channels (not that there's anything wrong with that). At some point, everyone will have everything in HD and with the amount of HD that D* currently has, more HD for a competitor is something that'll never work its way into the equation.

Even if U-Verse has everything you say it will have in 2 years, I can guarantee you that D* will be offering much more. Not to mention, that 2 years from now the HR20 (or whatever we're on by then) will be the best DVR available. Look how far it's come in the last year. These new concepts promise a lot, but they rarely deliver. I've had FIOS knocking on my door for the last year to get me to switch. Not a chance. They have the worst DVR on the market by far and even with their triple-play, the pricing isn't that great. 

Hopefully in 2 years when you decide to stay, you'll start a new thread.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

sNEIRBO said:


> Are you saying that all programming is going to MPEG4, even SD? Via D*?? Or everything (Cable, OTA)??


Sooner or later.


> Or are you saying that with all of the channels migrating over to HD, I will want to switch to all HDTVs to enjoy all of the high definition goodness available??


That too.


> I have an HR20 hooked up to my HDTV in the Living Room - that is the ONLY HDTV I ever intend to buy, regardless of how much content gets converted to HD.


At some point, the TVs will either die or you'll decide that letterboxing or pan & scan is for the birds. Most of us have already passed that point with DVDs.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

At some point the term "HDTV" will stop having meaning, as all TVs will be HD. You don't say "color TV" do you? When was the last time you saw a black and white one larger than 5" or so? 

That time is coming. To the OP, we all encourage you to be happy, but I too am confused by what seems to be several changes of direction.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

I didn't say that "Whole House DVR" was something I wanted or needed or even if it were better or worse than what D* offers with their DVRs. i mentioned it as part of U-verse's service - a part that has not yet been implement, and for that sole reason was the reason I did not switch to U-verse at this time. And without it, it is a major slight for their system. I want and need DVR functionality on all TVs in my house, not just one TV which is what U-verse is offering right now.

When I weighed all the pluses and minuses of all the options available to me - E*, D*, Bright House Cable, U-verse - I chose D* for the next 2 years. With the exception of initial problems with my HR20-100 receiver (which are now resolved) and some HORRENDOUS customer support, I am very happy with my decision to switch from E* to D*.

As far as networking / distributing D* DVRs. that's great that they can be networked / distributed. i currently distribute all of my D* DVRs to multiple TVs. 6 TVs, 3 DVRs, 2 TVs per DVR - distributed. But in order to accomplish what i want to do with my system, I need 3 DVRs to pull that off. I do not want every TV in my system playing / watching the same thing. That won't work for me and mine.

How can you distribute HD between D* DVRs?? As far as I can see, you can't. You need HDMI for HD, the D* HR DVRs only have 1 HDMI output. Therefore, in order to replace 4 TVs in my house with HDTVs, would also require me to replace 2 SD DVRs with 4 HD DVRs as well. So now I am replacing $200 TVs with $600 HDTVs, and $99 SD DVRs with $300 HD DVRs - that's starting to sound more expensive than the returned benefit to me. There are too many cost prohibitive issues in that equation. 

Am I REALLY the only one here who thinks replacing a 19" SDTV in a bedroom that only gets watched for 30 - 45 minutes per night, with a $600 HDTV and a $300 HD DVR is nuts?? Because that's really the way you're all starting to make me feel.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

sNEIRBO, I'd get yourself to best buy or circuit city on Friday, as both are doing killer deals on TVs on that day.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> sNEIRBO, I'd get yourself to best buy or circuit city on Friday, as both are doing killer deals on TVs on that day.


Thanks for the advice . . . to be honest I prefer to wait until the week after Christmas when all the house Bit&#$s make their whipped husbands take back the HDTVs they bought - open box pricing is usually better than any sale!

I got my 65" Sony the week after Christmas for about 1/2 price and they threw in the 4 yr extended warranty for FREE.

Just a thought, is my problem with this HDTV thing in the definition of HDTV?? I don't think HD starts until 1080i, and in order to get a 1080i capable 20" TV, you're talking about $1000. On the other hand I can get a widescreen 480p ATSC digital TV (which I would consider to be SDTV) for $300 with a built in DVD player - which is what I'm thinking about buying after Christmas for my bedroom. Would you consider that TV to be an HDTV, while I don't?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

HD is 720.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> HD is 720.


A 20" 720p capable TV still in the $500 and above price range.

I'll take the 20" LCD 480p widescreen with a built in DVD player for $300.

I can hook up the DirecTiVo in 16:9 aspect directly to that, then add the 13" behind the bar TV to the R15 distribution system.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

There are some interesting discussions at avsforum.com and elsewhere as to how close you would have to sit to discern the difference between 720 and 1080. With a 20" TV I don't expect you'd really see the difference at a normal viewing distance.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

But you'd definitely see a difference between 720 and 480.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> But you'd definitely see a difference between 720 and 480.


I agree . . . except that the source to the TV would only be 480 - an SD DirecTiVo. 
Which goes back to the topic that started this thread . . . how long will my SD DirecTiVo be supported / operable?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

And the answer comes back... between 2 and 3 years as far as we know today. There is an agreement in place, it wouldn't be less than that.


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