# Check those barrel connectors!



## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

I have had intermittent problems over the last 5 months with my 5LNB HR21/H20/4 std receiver installation and have endured 5 service visits and numerous phones calls to correct various problems over that time. After the first two service visits my case was escalated to more capable tech support at DTV, but some of the problems persisted. Quick recap:

Problem 1: Intermittent pixelation on the HR21 and H20 of my HD local channels (carried on Transponder 5 of the 99 satellites) was finally corrected after 3 months by changing out the 5LNB assembly on the slimline dish. This problem was difficult to diagnose, as it had been limited to just the local HD channels, and I had perfect reception of all other HD channels and excellent signal strengths at both of the HD receivers. Although signal strengths didn't change with the new LNB assembly, once it was installed, the intermittent pixelation problems on my HD locals finally went away (or down to an acceptable level).

Problem 2: Earlier this week my intermittent polarity switching (channel changing) problem on the H20 receiver was finally corrected, but there is more to the story:

Since my HR20 DVR had always reliably changed channels when installed at the H20's location, I decided to upgrade the H20 to an HR20 or HR21. So on service visit number 5 last week, a DTV tech swapped out my H20 receiver for an HR21 DVR. Although the tech had a difficult time in getting the new DVR correctly authorized from DTV Central (it took about 4 attempts over the phone), everything seemed to work fine at the time that he left the house. I did notice that changing certain channels operated slowly (20 seconds or so), but at least the unit did reliably change channels, unlike the predecessor H20. After about an hour's operation with the new HR21, I needed to unplug the unit's power cord and move it a few feet to its correct location. I did not disconnect any other cables from the new receiver. 

When the HR21 booted back up, it would not receive ANY HD channels, except for the four local HD channels that are carried on the 99 satellite. The HR21 was receiving all of it standard definition channels just fine. I reset the receiver and tried again, still no reception of HD channels. DTV also tried re-authorizing the new receiver several times. Figuring "infant mortality" of the new DVR, I called DTV's escalated tech guys again and scheduled yet another service call to change out the new DVR. Since he had been pretty knowledgeable and was still working in the area, I also decided to call the installation technician who had just installed the new DVR to see if he might be able to swing back later that afternoon and change out the DVR with another HR21 from his truck.

The local tech suggested changing out a barrel connector that was used at the input of the one BBC that was feeding the tuner 1 input jack on the HR21. This barrel connector had been part of my original installation back in October 2007. Once this single barrel connector was changed out, I had perfect reception of all HD channels and I also now had instant channel changing on the HR21. Long term problem solved! 

I suspect the bad barrel connector had also been the cause all along for the intermittent channel changing problems on my H20 receiver. The bad barrel connector was probably not rated for the high frequencies involved with the DTV HD channels or had more internal resistance, causing polarity/channel changing problems with the remote LNBs. 

Anyway, if you are having some unexplained channel changing or strange HD reception problems, I would change out all barrel connectors with some known good ones. It certainly worked for me and I previously would not have believed this could have been a cause! This is also a much simpler fix than changing other equipment, cabling, etc., although many other factors can certainly bite us with these satellite TV installations. In some other threads, KS4MX suggests using the F-81 barrels that are available in the Radio Shack metal drawers, not the blister packed barrels that are on walls of the store.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Actually, all satellite techs should be using barrels rated to at least 2.25 GHz (DirecTV wants techs to use 3 GHz barrels). These "high-speed" barrels are much more heavily constructed (zinc-plated brass) and have blue plastic inserts to indicate high frequency capability.

Before I worked in satellite, I had never seen these barrels, and to this day, I've never seen one in a store, but they can be purchased from a few sat-oriented web stores, as well as from eBay. Sat techs have to set up business accounts at one of the national sat supply places unless there's a local supply house near them.


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

IIP said:


> Actually, all satellite techs should be using barrels rated to at least 2.25 GHz (DirecTV wants techs to use 3 GHz barrels). These "high-speed" barrels are much more heavily constructed (zinc-plated brass) and have blue plastic inserts to indicate high frequency capability.
> 
> Before I worked in satellite, I had never seen these barrels, and to this day, I've never seen one in a store, but they can be purchased from a few sat-oriented web stores, as well as from eBay. Sat techs have to set up business accounts at one of the national sat supply places unless there's a local supply house near them.


Home depot and Lowes sell them. Atleast here in AZ they do.


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## diggerg56 (Sep 26, 2007)

Home Depot, Menards, Lowes all carry them in various quantities. They aren't exactly cheap but they are worth it.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

They will have either blue, yellow, or green inserts if they are rated to pass the high frequencies. If they are clear or white they should be changed.


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

IIP said:


> Actually, all satellite techs should be using barrels rated to at least 2.25 GHz (DirecTV wants techs to use 3 GHz barrels)


Well, all the techs should have the minimum test equipment to do installs, to wit, along with those shiny Ku/Ka test meters, how about a simple TDR? (Time Domain Reflectometer).

Like the signal meters, they (I'm talking metalic, not fiber) ones used to be a bit (or more) on the steep side. No longer. Of all the problems laid out here in spades (all the cable problems, and barrel problems like this one) sweeping the cable parts would eliminate a very high percentage of problems, not to mention return trips. NOT having one is the same as not having a decent signal meter.


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## upgrade lately? (Dec 17, 2006)

I'd be willing to bet that the barrel connector itself was fine...How the RG6 cable was striped and prepared, and the quality of the crimped connection was probably at fault. You can have the best connectors in the world, but if not used properly they are worth s**t!


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## SDizzle (Jan 1, 2007)

I would have never believed a barrel connector could be at fault?!? So, does that mean that the barrels connected to faceplates (such as the ones that came in my new house) should be changed because they are not high frequency?


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## phat78boy (Sep 12, 2007)

SDizzle said:


> I would have never believed a barrel connector could be at fault?!? So, does that mean that the barrels connected to faceplates (such as the ones that came in my new house) should be changed because they are not high frequency?


I wouldn't worry about it unless you are having issues. If you make any new cables for yourself, just be sure to use high quality.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Connectors.  It's so often connectors when you have a problem.


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## azjerry (Jan 13, 2008)

SDizzle said:


> I would have never believed a barrel connector could be at fault?!? So, does that mean that the barrels connected to faceplates (such as the ones that came in my new house) should be changed because they are not high frequency?


Should you be worried- maybe! I was a new DTV subscriber with a brand new HR21. During the install he had trouble getting a signal through the original wall plate (as much as 30 years old). But he got it working and was able to demonstrate both receivers were working.

A day or 2 later I noticed one receiver wasn't working. I tried swapping the cables back forth, before the BBCs, after the BBCs at the wall jacks but it was always receiver 2 that wasn't working. It wasn't until later that I discovered that a reboot was advisable.

Eventually I convinced DTV to send a new receiver. That one worked fine for a couple of days and then I started having the same problem. Eventually tracked it down to that same wall jack. I swapped out the connector and all has been well since.


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## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

west99999 said:


> They will have either blue, yellow, or green inserts if they are rated to pass the high frequencies. If they are clear or white they should be changed.


Also red. Any colored ones.


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## ironwood (Sep 20, 2007)

SDizzle said:


> I would have never believed a barrel connector could be at fault?!? So, does that mean that the barrels connected to faceplates (such as the ones that came in my new house) should be changed because they are not high frequency?


I usually replace new walplates in the rooms where HD equipment goes. And I replace any walplates or barrels that are too old. Thats another reason why coax connection on the back of old TVs is often so bad and picture is fuzzy, after plugging/unplugging cables those barrels become too loose.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

mangusta1969 said:


> ..... In some other threads, KS4MX suggests using the F-81 barrels that are available in the Radio Shack metal drawers, not the blister packed barrels that are on walls of the store.


And in those other threads, I recommended posters use that particular R/S adapter in connection with temporarily bypassing multi-switches, etc. for testing purposes, since most people don't have same-day availability of Ka-rated adapters. Even though it has a clear dielectric, I have tested these repeatedly, and have never been able to find any difference in Ka signal strengths versus the Ka-rated adapters. They appear to be of superior material to a lot of the double-female adapters commonly available, in that I have left them outdoors with one end exposed on a temporarily-disconnected OTA antenna, and they didn't rust instantly like the rest. YMMV.



SDizzle said:


> I would have never believed a barrel connector could be at fault?!? So, does that mean that the barrels connected to faceplates (such as the ones that came in my new house) should be changed because they are not high frequency?


These are definitely suspect and should be swapped out. Some of the cable TV-type grounding blocks are also junk. In connection with the latter, I've tested some of these that don't even pass 250-750 mhz without attenuation.

And if you use those pre-wired double-female wallplate adapters with existing RG6, you should also replace the male F connector on the wall side with your own compression-type male connector. There have been a lot of reported problems with poor installation of crimp-type connectors on the wall side.


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

I remember several months ago when D10 when up and MPEG4 was starting a lot of people had problems that turned out to be old wiring and connectors. I know it is a lot of work etc. but when they do a major technology change like that they almost should change out all the old stuff when the put a new dish in. I had an issue where I eventually found that some installer in the past (and I've had a few from my initial time) used a splitter to join the cables coming from the roof into the house. What a mess it was but now is clean until the next time.


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## Stevies3 (Jul 22, 2004)

Then I have many to change, And I'm sure many of you guys out there as well. I use Leviton wall plates in each of the locations in my home. These are about 3-5 years old, Then I guess I should just change the barrel connnectors on these plates, Hopefuly they will fit.


Steven


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

A couple questions on barrel connectors:

1. If using SWM. I understand that with an SWM, you do not need RG6 solid copper coax between the receiver and the SWM and can even use RG59. Does that mean that when using an SWM, it really doesn't matter if the barrel connectors are the higher rated ones (i.e. blue or other colors than white/clear)?

2. What about the grounding blocks that Direct Tv was using before the 5 LNB dishes were out and the MPEG 4 channels were active. Should those be replaced since they are essentially barrel connectors all "welded" in a row to a block of metal?


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Hansen said:


> A couple questions on barrel connectors:
> 
> 1. If using SWM. I understand that with an SWM, you do not need RG6 solid copper coax between the receiver and the SWM and can even use RG59. Does that mean that when using an SWM, it really doesn't matter if the barrel connectors are the higher rated ones (i.e. blue or other colors than white/clear)?
> 
> 2. What about the grounding blocks that Direct Tv was using before the 5 LNB dishes were out and the MPEG 4 channels were active. Should those be replaced since they are essentially barrel connectors all "welded" in a row to a block of metal?


1. I believe the SWM channels run roughly between 975-1800 mhz, so I'd stay away from the cable TV-type junk.

2. Unless you installed your own 5 LNB dish, the installer probably should have replaced those.  I'm not sure I 'd mess with them right off the bat if you can temporarily substitute a Ka-rated barrel adapter and you see no difference in Ka signal strengths. All this stuff with plastic dielectric deteriorates over time outdoors, though....


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## mangusta1969 (Oct 11, 2007)

I may try swapping in some other barrel connectors at this one HR21 location and see if I again experience HD reception problems. I will report back to the forums. 

Right now I have a kitchen remodel eating at me which will prevent this from happening for a week or two, but I have spent many, many hours on the phone with DTV and with various in home technicians and only the one tech last week mentioned barrel connectors as a possible problem with HD reception and to try changing out a barrel connector he had previously observed when he changed out my H20 for an HR21 receiver. I am certainly a believer now, and my solution was definitely nothing to do with cables, cable lengths or crimps. My channel switching and flaky HD reception problems with the new HR21 were cured by the replacement of a single barrel connector that was feeding the BBC's input to this receiver. No other changes were made to my installation hardware and no new receiver authorizations were performed after changing out the one barrel connector.

You definitely cannot count on the installation techs to do the right thing, as all of my tech repair attempts were done by "DTV-qualified" installers, and I was closely monitoring what they were doing while they were installing or troubleshooting my installation. Two of these installers appeared be very knowledgeable, but even they did not try swapping out any barrel connectors in the chain of equipment between the LNBs and the two HD receivers. I just hope my experience helps someone and that the advanced DTV troubleshooters begin to think and say more about some of the simple things that may negatively affect reception. I am going to call my DTV trouble desk contact back and let him know about my recent experience.


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## davejacobson (Mar 14, 2005)

My standard service for dish probs.Check signal at the dish (old channel master meter works great) Change any non compression F-connector and any barrel connector not rated to 3ghz (including wall plates).That solves most of the probs. Intermit probs signal breaking up check your connectors. Anything that remotely looks bad gets cut out and replaced


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

The problem lies in the fact that a barrel connector not certified for high frequency use will generally work perfectly fine, if the cable run, line loss and voltage drop is low, especially when the system is new and pristine.

Every system will degrade with age due to corrosion of the contact between the dissimilar metals that make up the conductor stream.

The advantage of using a high frequency barrel connector is mainly greater longevity.

Standard frequency barrels have two spring loaded contact points. Really high end ones made by Thomas and Betts or Stirling have tubllar high precision full large surface contact in a large area of the tubular socket.


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## looney2ns (Sep 20, 2007)

A good check when having any problems is to get a 7/16th wrench, and check all connections. They should be wrench snug, not finger tight like most techs want to do.
Most techs simply don't understand they are to be wrench snug.


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## Mike500 (May 10, 2002)

In another time, I designed and specified sockets for DB25 specified RS232 serial interfaces in the early 1980's.

The most expensive socket was a tubular machined phospor bronze socket with an outward flared opening. At that time, AMP Incorporated was the default military standard with a formed socket made from sheet phosfer bronze and an open seam.

The best F81's I've examined have the preciaion machined tublar socket.

The low frequency ones have twin flat spring contact points.

The currently made ones made in Asia with blue insulators are like the AMP RS232 sockets.

Very few organizations use the T&B machined ones, because they are very expensive.


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