# PQ. How far has D* fallen!



## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Watching hockey on D* this evening. Comparing the PQ with ESPN+, and it’s like comparing SD to HD. ESPN+ is so much better. 

It’s so sad how ATT destroyed DirecTV


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Watching hockey on D* this evening. Comparing the PQ with ESPN+, and it's like comparing SD to HD. ESPN+ is so much better.
> 
> It's so sad how ATT destroyed DirecTV


Not sure why you are surprised by this. It's been very well discussed that the apps offer a higher bit rate then all linear content. This has nothing to do with ATT doing anything


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

I still say D* has better PQ than cable cos . 

Some cable cos are compressing all channels to 720p

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

dtv757 said:


> I still say D* has better PQ than cable cos .
> 
> Some cable cos are compressing all channels to 720p
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Thats 1 cable company. And not in every market


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Verizon fios is absolutely better now


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## bnwrx (Dec 29, 2007)

My Av's game tonite on 681 is quite sharp...Comparing to SD is a little overstated...


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Verizon fios is absolutely better now


Fios PQ varies by market and most Fios users will tell you it is the worst now


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

bnwrx said:


> My Av's game tonite on 681 is quite sharp...Comparing to SD is a little overstated...


The point it stupid. It's like saying the PQ on Direct sucks now because I just watched the same movie on 4K Blu ray and it blew it away

Directv isn't doing anything more or less now then they were years ago There is just simply higher quietly sources now


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

compnurd said:


> Directv isn't doing anything more or less now then they were years ago


if you don't count new hardware (AV compressors, stat multiplexors, etc) and updated rules/profiles used by the equipment


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

dtv757 said:


> I still say D* has better PQ than cable cos .
> 
> Some cable cos are compressing all channels to 720p
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Spectrum offers full fledged 1080P


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> if you don't count new hardware (AV compressors, stat multiplexors, etc) and updated rules/profiles used by the equipment


Your assuming any of that has taken place Sam Jackson says it the best to what happens when you assume


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

it was simple mention of facts behind your curtains


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> it was simple mention of facts behind your curtains


You mentioned 0 facts as usual


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

@compunurd - I've been using D* since 1996. You are telling me that the dozens of infomercial and televangelist channels haven't stolen bandwidth from a small regional sports network?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> @compunurd - I've been using D* since 1996. You are telling me that the dozens of infomercial and televangelist channels haven't stolen bandwidth from a small regional sports network?


Directv has more bandwidth then they know what to do with. So no they are not


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

krel said:


> Spectrum offers full fledged 1080P


No they don't. No channels broadcast in 1080p


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

P Smith said:


> if you don't count new hardware (AV compressors, stat multiplexors, etc) and updated rules/profiles used by the equipment





compnurd said:


> Directv isn't doing anything more or less now then they were years ago
> 
> You mentioned 0 facts as usual


 What fact did post you? Zero. You are such dishonest &^
Just see how short is your knowledge about equipment what located out of your sight. Zero, zilch. Nada!


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

dtv757 said:


> I still say D* has better PQ than cable cos .
> 
> Some cable cos are compressing all channels to 720p
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


True, but DIRECTV picture quality was better when we had the NATIVE feature available.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

P Smith said:


> What fact did post you? Zero. You are such dishonest &^
> Just see how short is your knowledge about equipment what located out of your sight. Zero, zilch. Nada!


Why don't you stick to trolling threads for a service you actually have


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Keep your personal stings out. The thread is about PQ !


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> You are telling me that the dozens of infomercial and televangelist channels haven't stolen bandwidth from a small regional sports network?


ESPN is hardly a small RSN.

That the same game on ESPN+ looks better than DIRECTV DBS is clear evidence that something is getting lost in the translation and that is lamentable.

DIRECTV has a lot of bandwidth available (they're not using Reverse Band at all) so it is surely more of an issue of poor management of their resources and the blame for that lies entirely with DIRECTV.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

compnurd said:


> Directv has more bandwidth then they know what to do with. So no they are not


Sounds like you are assuming that. Got any facts to state how much bandwidth channels used in the past vs now? Your claim, your proof.


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## Rob37 (Jul 11, 2013)

Yesterday during College Football on my local ABC Channel which is ABC 24 from Memphis was absolutely horrible trying to watch. It was the worse I ever seen it. Alot of pixelation and artifacting while all other channels looked supurb.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> Sounds like you are assuming that. Got any facts to state how much bandwidth channels used in the past vs now? Your claim, your proof.


Ah here we go. I was waiting for you to swoop in to his rescue. But that's an easy one. If they needed anymore bandwidth they would still be using reverse band


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

Rob37 said:


> Yesterday during College Football on my local ABC Channel which is ABC 24 from Memphis was absolutely horrible trying to watch. It was the worse I ever seen it. Alot of pixelation and artifacting while all other channels looked supurb.


ABC PQ during college football this entire season has been horrible on every source I have seen


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

compnurd said:


> Ah here we go. I was waiting for you to swoop in to his rescue. But that's an easy one. If they needed anymore bandwidth they would still be using reverse band


So NO FACTS about actual bandwidth use per channel just more assumptions (and more personal attacks).

The funny thing about this claim is that DIRECTV could be reducing the amount of bandwidth used by each channel. Increasing the amount of bandwidth per channel would require DIRECTV to either drop channels or find new space to put channels (assuming they hit their capacity). Reducing bandwidth per channel does not require any shuffling. They can leave the additional capacity gained fallow.

Getting back to your original claim, many people in different threads have complained about a decline in PQ on DIRECTV. Your claim in this thread is that the observations are based on having better alternative sources than in the past (ie: more 4K available via other methods). This infers that you are claiming DIRECTV PQ has not changed for the worse but people are incorrectly perceiving that it has. Are you claiming that DIRECTV PQ has not changed for the worse?


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

I can tell you, yesterday on ESPN3 that the UM vs GATech game from Ballys, the PQ was just bad.
I watched games on ESPN+ and quality was similar to YouTube TV and slightly less at times. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Rob37 (Jul 11, 2013)

compnurd said:


> ABC PQ during college football this entire season has been horrible on every source I have seen


I agree with that although my local ABC has looked better, yesterday it was looking BAD during all games.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> So NO FACTS about actual bandwidth use per channel just more assumptions (and more personal attacks).
> 
> The funny thing about this claim is that DIRECTV could be reducing the amount of bandwidth used by each channel. Increasing the amount of bandwidth per channel would require DIRECTV to either drop channels or find new space to put channels (assuming they hit their capacity). Reducing bandwidth per channel does not require any shuffling. They can leave the additional capacity gained fallow.
> 
> Getting back to your original claim, many people in different threads have complained about a decline in PQ on DIRECTV. Your claim in this thread is that the observations are based on having better alternative sources than in the past (ie: more 4K available via other methods). This infers that you are claiming DIRECTV PQ has not changed for the worse but people are incorrectly perceiving that it has. Are you claiming that DIRECTV PQ has not changed for the worse?


Nice rant. I have noticed zero change in PQ over the last 15 years. The only thing I see now is sources with higher bit rates


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

compnurd said:


> Nice rant. I have noticed zero change in PQ over the last 15 years. The only thing I see now is sources with higher bit rates


I have to agree here- no change in last 15 years and no complaints at our household. Bit rates do play a role- example would be this last years Super Bowl and other high profile events.

We also still have several HR24's with native as still an option vs the Genie. To bad the Genie 'software updrades' tossed Native out the door. Uggh.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

codespy said:


> To bad the Genie 'software updrades' tossed Native out the door. Uggh.


Just one of the many AT&T brain farts.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Just one of the many AT&T brain farts.


So I agree with you. But the biggest problem was customers. Apparently this was the number one reason people called support. Slow channel changes from the resolution switching


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

compnurd said:


> So I agree with you. But the biggest problem was customers. Apparently this was the number one reason people called support. Slow channel changes from the resolution switching


True, but they complained about the slow channel changes due to using NATIVE ON before AT&T purchased DIRECTV yet the feature remained. It was AT&T who pulled the plug on the NATIVE feature and as I previously stated it was one of their many brain farts.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 18, 2005)

I was about to blame Directv for the terrible macroblocking during last night's NCIS LA but then I switched over to OTA and it was just as bad.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Yea if OTA is also bad its the local station not D* 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

I find Directv to be just fine. Comcast locally is dreadful. Apps always pause and stutter, but when they are working they do have great PQ. I would rather have the reliability of Directv than watch a stupid circle spin or have the app restart becauase of laggy Internet. And this is not because I live in a rural area, I have family in Boston and it's the same there, especially on the weekends. I just rewatched the old episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm on the HBO Max app and they looked awful, especially the old seasons. It must be SD and it had stereo sound. But I went to Directv on-demand and it was restored HD and 5.1 sound. Much better experience.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

compnurd said:


> Apparently this was the number one reason people called support. Slow channel changes from the resolution switching


I'd buy this argument if only Native was the default setting. Most who chose this setting knew what they were getting into.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

harsh said:


> I'd buy this argument if only Native was the default setting. Most who chose this setting knew what they were getting into.


I am 99% positive it was the default Was it default on your Genie?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

compnurd said:


> I am 99% positive it was the default


The 1% wins. Native OFF was default.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

James Long said:


> The 1% wins. Native OFF was default.


Was it on your Genie also?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Some members over at iamanedgecutter.com are compiling some transponder data for DIRECTV.

Their research reveals that DIRECTV is putting up to 6 HD channels on a Ka transponder. Remember that their Ka transponders use 2/3 FEC and are 32MHz wide (versus 24MHz for Ku). I suppose this is reasonable given improvements in compression technology since they originally drew the line at 5 channels.

Of course we also have to remember that poor quality content doesn't compress nearly as well as good content so the damage is compounded.

DIRECTV is stuffing up to 21 SD channels on a Ka transponder.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> Some members over at iamanedgecutter.com are compiling some transponder data for DIRECTV.
> 
> Their research reveals that DIRECTV is putting up to 6 HD channels on a Ka transponder. Remember that their Ka transponders use 2/3 FEC and are 32MHz wide (versus 24MHz for Ku). I suppose this is reasonable given improvements in compression technology since they originally drew the line at 5 channels.
> 
> ...


Ka transponders are 36 MHz wide not 32, but for the purposes of FEC calculations Ku is 20 MHz and Ka is 30 MHz after you deduct the 20% roll off.

Directv has 5 HD channels on some transponders, 6 on others. If they are higher bandwidth channels like sports or more highly viewed they typically use 5.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

harsh said:


> Some members over at iamanedgecutter.com are compiling some transponder data for DIRECTV.
> 
> Their research reveals that DIRECTV is putting up to 6 HD channels on a Ka transponder. Remember that their Ka transponders use 2/3 FEC and are 32MHz wide (versus 24MHz for Ku). I suppose this is reasonable given improvements in compression technology since they originally drew the line at 5 channels.
> 
> ...


As you can see slice1900 pointed out your posted error. Too often you have enjoyed posting in DIRECTV threads using the comfort of your opinions without the discomfort of thought.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> If they are higher bandwidth channels like sports or more highly viewed they typically use 5.


Perhaps the most densely populated TP I found (in a quick search) was D14 TP 9 that has seven RSNs (YES 720p, MSG 1080i, NBC Sports Washington 1080i, Ballys SE 720p, AT&T SW 1080i, Altitude 1080i and Ballys Arizona 720p) and two Music Choice channels.

D14 TP8 also has seven RSNs (three 1080i NBC RSNs and four 720p Ballys RSNs) and two Music Choice channels.

Another sports intensive transponder was D14 TP23 that had five RSNs (4 Ballys 720p and a Spectrum 1080i) and Accuweather 1080i along with JBS in SD.

This data shoots a pretty big hole in your sports bandwidth allocation reasoning.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

harsh said:


> This data shoots a pretty big hole


You need to see the content ! Perhaps there was talking heads about games ?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MysteryMan said:


> As you can see slice1900 pointed out your posted error.


I can see that. I'm accustomed to using much lower FEC.

36Mbps * (2/3 FEC) = 24Mbps so we were both wrong.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> You need to see the content ! Perhaps there was talking heads about games ?


Most RSNs are showing games at more or less the same time. Choosing to mix and match East and West teams can be beneficial at either end but the middle of the sports day is pretty much game on for everyone.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

harsh said:


> Most RSNs are showing games at more or less the same time. Choosing to mix and match East and West teams can be beneficial at either end but the middle of the sports day is pretty much game on for everyone.


Even if that is the case.. No need to dedicate the same bandwidth to a 2PM re run vs a 7PM live game


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

compnurd said:


> Even if that is the case.. No need to dedicate the same bandwidth to a 2PM re run vs a 7PM live game


I'm guessing that the bandwidth is allocated on-the-fly by the multiplexers on the basis of need rather than a time-based channel budget. Why should time-shifters suffer?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

harsh said:


> Perhaps the most densely populated TP I found (in a quick search) was D14 TP 9 that has seven RSNs (YES 720p, MSG 1080i, NBC Sports Washington 1080i, Ballys SE 720p, AT&T SW 1080i, Altitude 1080i and Ballys Arizona 720p) and two Music Choice channels.
> 
> D14 TP8 also has seven RSNs (three 1080i NBC RSNs and four 720p Ballys RSNs) and two Music Choice channels.
> 
> ...


RSNs show don't show much in the way of live sports over the 168 hours a week they broadcast, and the times they are showing them don't overlap all that much. When they are showing talking heads or reruns they can give them less bandwidth so those showing live sports can have more.

Also Directv is constantly moving channels around. The spreadsheet only shows a momentary snapshot. If they had games on all those at once they'd move them around temporarily as necessary.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

** AS A MODERATOR **

Bad information is not a violation of forum rules. Name calling and personal attacks are violations.
Please, stay within the rules. Discuss the topic, not the posters.


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## Steveknj (Nov 14, 2006)

Having had all three (Cable/DirecTV/AT&T Stream) in the last year or so, I find that the PQ was best on stream, followed by Sat and lastly cable, though none was so bad as to be unwatchable. 

But, I wonder if your perception of "declining" PQ is a result of improved tech on TVs. For example, the larger the TV, the worse PQ has been on lower resolutions, to the point where on my 65" TV, SD is hardly watchable, HD doesn't look as good as it did on my 55" and so forth. I just think that there's also a reliance now on making the higher bandwidth PQ look pristine while the lower bandwidth PQ looks worse. I think TV size also has something to do with it as well. SD looked fine on my old 27" Trinitron, but on a 65" TV, it's barely watchable. As I said, though having all three recently, and using the same TV. I have a pretty good idea of the differences, and at least for my experience, there isn't a significant difference.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I was watching the Knicks/Hornets game last night. DirecTV looked "fuzzy" without much detail.
Conversely, the NBA League Pass feed was pristine.

(And, yes, my original observation was based on live sports programming, which is probably 70% of what I watch.


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## richall01 (Sep 30, 2007)

LG tv, HDMI cables from Target, DTV install. No problems. Going on 15 years +.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> But, I wonder if your perception of "declining" PQ is a result of improved tech on TVs.


If you observe that the PQ remains high on any of the delivery formats, it seems more likely due to the lower PQ sources reducing their bandwidth budgets.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> I was watching the Knicks/Hornets game last night. DirecTV looked "fuzzy" without much detail.
> Conversely, the NBA League Pass feed was pristine.


Now, I cant speak for league pass, but ESPN has been known to stream college games at 1080p on their app, vs their 720p for Satellite and cable...so it should look much better. If League Pass is doing the same thing, it would make sense.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

I'm just glad some NBA games are available in "4K" 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

I watched NBA years ago on the cable co it was microblock city and blurry . Nba was un watchable 

And I think I said in another thread may need to change settings for HD vs 4K . 

Why does everyone mention streaming not everyone has a reliable ISP ... 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## bobwya (Nov 9, 2021)

Rob37 said:


> Yesterday during College Football on my local ABC Channel which is ABC 24 from Memphis was absolutely horrible trying to watch. It was the worse I ever seen it. Alot of pixelation and artifacting while all other channels looked supurb.





dtv757 said:


> Yea if OTA is also bad its the local station not D*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## bobwya (Nov 9, 2021)

I saw none of that my picture never pixelated the signal is 100 on slot of transponders.i do have question can the HS17 BE HACKED


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bobwya said:


> I saw none of that my picture never pixelated the signal is 100 on slot of transponders.i do have question can the HS17 BE HACKED


Do you use hacked IRDs ? Models ?


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

have a genie 2 along with 2 4k mini's and the PQ is amazing!!! The pictures just pop right out at yea!!! What boxes do you have??? Though i did read some older boxes were better outputting than others... And the 4K is jaw dropping!!!


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

krel said:


> have a genie 2 along with 2 4k mini's and the PQ is amazing!!!


Same i have 3 4K minis

Amazing PQ

Unrelated but ever since I got an external 6TB HDD picture seams slightly better lol

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

dtv757 said:


> Same i have 3 4K minis
> 
> Amazing PQ
> 
> ...


How in the hell do you hook up an external HDD to a genie 2 mine don't have the e sata port


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

krel said:


> How in the hell do you hook up an external HDD to a genie 2 mine don't have the e sata port


Mine has an esata port i got it back in 2017

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

dtv757 said:


> Mine has an esata port i got it back in 2017
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Mines got a usb port that's it. I'm sure that's more than likely used to wipe and reformat the drive


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

I mean it took a long time to fill up the 2TB they give you but the braves world series in 4k i ran out of space lol 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

dtv757 said:


> I watched NBA years ago on the cable co it was microblock city and blurry . Nba was un watchable
> 
> And I think I said in another thread may need to change settings for HD vs 4K .
> 
> ...


Not only do you need a reliable isp. But they have price hikes to. Not only do you have to worry about the streaming service carrying channels but you also need to be worried about the streaming app on a platform as they have contract negotiations as well then you need a robust internet connection to run everything. I just laugh when I hear people saying there gonna get youtube tv for 65.00 a month. Most of the time there right back where they started. And cloud dvrs are crap to. I have no problems running everything off a verizon 5G jetpack...


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

dtv757 said:


> I mean it took a long time to fill up the 2TB they give you but the braves world series in 4k i ran out of space lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Mines not even half full yet lol


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

krel said:


> How in the hell do you hook up an external HDD to a genie 2 mine don't have the e sata port


If there's no eSATA port, there's no way to add an external hard drive. This is also true of some of the later HR54s.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

harsh said:


> If there's no eSATA port, there's no way to add an external hard drive. This is also true of some of the later HR54s.


I dunno why DTV took that away though!!!


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

krel said:


> I dunno why DTV took that away though!!!


Probably saved 5¢ to the manufacturing cost of the Genie 2 by removing it.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> Probably saved 5¢ to the manufacturing cost of the Genie 2 by removing it.


Talk about petty crapola on DTV'S part. There's lots of subs that still want to add an external drive!!!


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

krel said:


> Talk about petty crapola on DTV'S part. There's lots of subs that still want to add an external drive!!!


I would be willing to bet they can determine remotely who has a drive connected.. and based on those statistics determined the number was small enough to reduce the cost


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

compnurd said:


> I would be willing to bet they can determine remotely who has a drive connected.. and based on those statistics determined the number was small enough to reduce the cost


I'm betting it has more to do with recognizing that eSATA wasn't the way things went in terms of complete plug and play hard drive packages.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

krel said:


> Talk about petty crapola on DTV'S part. There's lots of subs that still want to add an external drive!!!


Lots? I'll bet the number who ever did it on any model of Genie was probably a few thousand. People who read/post satellite forums are not the typical Directv customer.


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## richall01 (Sep 30, 2007)

Can someone say "copy protection" !!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

b4pjoe said:


> Probably saved 5¢ to the manufacturing cost of the Genie 2 by removing it.


And a few thousand dollars in tech support for people who had problems with it.



richall01 said:


> Can someone say "copy protection" !!


 The content is encrypted on the drive. Not having external drives does the discourage people from saving programs forever.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> The content is encrypted on the drive. Not having external drives does the discourage people from saving programs forever.


IIRC, a DIRECTV satellite recording is usable only as long as the DVR that it was recorded on continues to function so there's not really a "forever" solution other than capture.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

James Long said:


> And a few thousand dollars in tech support for people who had problems with it.


Yeah but those people are probably still calling support while they are trying to get a USB drive to boot from the USB port.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

richall01 said:


> Can someone say "copy protection" !!


There's ways to copy HDD'S that we won't speak of here!!!


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> Yeah but those people are probably still calling support while they are trying to get a USB drive to boot from the USB port.


Wait till streaming takes over and people are calling in for credits because there internets went down and they can't watch tv


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

krel said:


> There's ways to copy HDD'S that we won't speak of here!!!


You can copy the hard drive with any disk duplication tool in Windows, Mac or Linux, but the encryption still ties it to a specific receiver with a specific access card.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

slice1900 said:


> You can copy the hard drive with any disk duplication tool in Windows, Mac or Linux, but the encryption still ties it to a specific receiver with a specific access card.


There's ways to Crack the encryption wich is against the tos.


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## Teetertotter (Jul 23, 2020)

@krel lol You might be right, or their internet speed slows down to snail speed due to traffic.....if DSL.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

krel said:


> There's ways to Crack the encryption wich is against the tos.


If there's a crack of Directv's current encryption it is news to me. And I'd have to think Directv would quickly remedy the situation by sending out new access cards.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Or destroy access cards remotely like they did that one time when someone figured out how to crack the access cards.


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

Aren't access cards the same sim tech as cell phones ? 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> If there's a crack of Directv's current encryption it is news to me. And I'd have to think Directv would quickly remedy the situation by sending out new access cards.


It depends on if the cost of replacing cards would be more or less than the expected losses. If the crack isn't widespread they may decide to delay visible countermeasures. That being said, I have not heard of any encryption cracks that have not been resolved.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

slice1900 said:


> If there's a crack of Directv's current encryption it is news to me. And I'd have to think Directv would quickly remedy the situation by sending out new access cards.


if i remember right and i am talking old school here. but the cracks were to enable the box to get free t.v. every channel and every PPV without paying for them.. one would think that that's different than cloning something from an HDD to watch later.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

dtv757 said:


> Aren't access cards the same sim tech as cell phones ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


in a round about way


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

b4pjoe said:


> Or destroy access cards remotely like they did that one time when someone figured out how to crack the access cards.


they audit the systems to and do a few other things to make sure people are paying.


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

Teetertotter said:


> @krel lol You might be right, or their internet speed slows down to snail speed due to traffic.....if DSL.


what would happen if someone crashed into a phone pole in winter or a storm comes in and wrecks the network LOL and it takes em days to fix  . i'll keep DTV sat all i need is a genset and i'm good to go!!!


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

krel said:


> what would happen if someone crashed into a phone pole in winter or a storm comes in and wrecks the network LOL and it takes em days to fix  . i'll keep DTV sat all i need is a genset and i'm good to go!!!


How many can whip out a genset at the drop of a hat?

Would they use their generator for watching TV rather than running their refrigeration and cooking?


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## krel (Mar 20, 2013)

harsh said:


> How many can whip out a genset at the drop of a hat?
> 
> Would they use their generator for watching TV rather than running their refrigeration and cooking?


Not many would whip out a genset at the drop of a gat unless football was going on lol. We always had a large enough genset to serve the whole house..


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

krel said:


> We always had a large enough genset to serve the whole house.


That may be more rarified air than those who subscribe to DIRECTV.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I have a generator which I used to keep a few lights on, the fridge and furnace running and power my laptop, satellite receiver and TV. Just set priorities.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

James Long said:


> I have a generator which I used to keep a few lights on, the fridge and furnace running and power my laptop, satellite receiver and TV. Just set priorities.


Offering yourself up as John Q. Public is probably not reasonable. I too have a small generator but a vast majority of consumers do not.

I'm surprised about how few effectively use just a basic UPS.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I was telling my story, not trying to say that generators were as common as landline phones.

That being said, 20 million homes have generators. Perhaps more of them are in my neighborhood than yours! (BTW - Under 40% of American homes have a landline.)


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## omeletpants (Mar 11, 2006)

What are your thoughts on how DTV PQ compares to Dish?


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## Teetertotter (Jul 23, 2020)

All I can say is we have DTV satellite HD with one TV being 4k, another a Smart TV, and one 720p TV, and no complaints on 1080i PQ. We have DTV Ultimate pkg. Streaming 1080p on DTV, is great. I am fussy with PQ. I would assume Dish PQ would be the same with 1080i xmission.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

Directv is hands down better. Forget 720p and 1080i. The pure bit rate is higher


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## dtv757 (Jun 4, 2006)

omeletpants said:


> What are your thoughts on how DTV PQ compares to Dish?


Not sure about comparing to E* 

But a few years back I compared to my local cable co and D* won hands down. 

I even showed the tech the picture comparison and he had no words .. NBA was unwatchable micro block city... 



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

compnurd said:


> Directv is hands down better. Forget 720p and 1080i. The pure bit rate is higher


what about dish cutting vertical resolution from 1920 to 1440 ? are they still have "fiber optic cable" issue what bring the "cute" resolution to their HD video?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> what about dish cutting vertical resolution from 1920 to 1440 ?


Do you have any reason to believe that they still engage in that practice or are you just trying to dazzle us with more useless trivia?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

omeletpants said:


> What are your thoughts on how DTV PQ compares to Dish?


The opinions were expressed in the first fourty or so posts. Many of the rest of the posts try to reason why.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> what about dish cutting vertical resolution from 1920 to 1440 ? are they still have "fiber optic cable" issue what bring the "cute" resolution to their HD video?


Horizontal resolution. It was a trick DISH learned from DIRECTV back in the day where DIRECTV would take down some HD channel feeds on Sunday so they could offer NFL ST in HD. DIRECTV launched satellites and gained bandwidth and no longer had to use either trick. Vertical resolution was not compromised, and 720p was sent intact. (1920x1080i was formatted 1440x1080i for satellite transmission and restored to 1920x1080i for delivery to the TV).

Compression formats have changes considerably since then including changes in the source material (satellite or fiber feeds from the programmers themselves).


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Oh right, horizontal quantization...

If I could, I will make a record of free HD program from barking unencrypted channel and would run VLC/Mediainfo to pull the meta info.
As to "restoration" ... well, getting fake 1/4 of picture is not the same as original footage


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The "restoration" refers to the output format of the monitor. Neither DIRECTV nor DISH was sending a 1440x1080i signal to a monitor for it to figure out how to display. All transmission systems use some form of compression. One could easily lose 25% of the picture quality by starving bandwidth instead of reducing the frame size.

I would not trust a test done on a barker channel. Those are typically low bandwidth static images. When changing to one of those channels on a receiver it takes longer to get a clear picture than when tuning to a regular channel. Barkers do not have to be pristine images.


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm "auditioning" YouTube TV. The picture quality on YTTV was quite a bit better than DirecTV.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> I'm "auditioning" YouTube TV. The picture quality on YTTV was quite a bit better than DirecTV.


The same is often being said of DIRECTV Stream versus DIRECTV DBS.

I wonder how much of that is related to the equipment that is being used to render the images (i.e. a ten year old HR24 versus a 4th generation streamer or Smart TV).


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## JodeanSS (11 mo ago)

Steveknj said:


> Having had all three (Cable/DirecTV/AT&T Stream) in the last year or so, I find that the PQ was best on stream, followed by Sat and lastly cable, though none was so bad as to be unwatchable.
> 
> But, I wonder if your perception of "declining" PQ is a result of improved tech on TVs. For example, the larger the TV, the worse PQ has been on lower resolutions, to the point where on my 65" TV, SD is hardly watchable, HD doesn't look as good as it did on my 55" and so forth. I just think that there's also a reliance now on making the higher bandwidth PQ look pristine while the lower bandwidth PQ looks worse. I think TV size also has something to do with it as well. SD looked fine on my old 27" Trinitron, but on a 65" TV, it's barely watchable. As I said, though having all three recently, and using the same TV. I have a pretty good idea of the differences, and at least for my experience, there isn't a significant difference.


I was waiting for someone to bring up PQ on stream. I noticed it was very clear on a brand new OLED, but it had MAJOR motion issues that i didnt want to bring up to the customer. I do not notice that much motion sickness off any of my 4k minis, i dont have an OLED but do have a 75" 940 series Sony. 

Doesnt anyone notice the severe judder on any streaming service?? It drives me insane.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

JodeanSS said:


> I was waiting for someone to bring up PQ on stream. I noticed it was very clear on a brand new OLED, but it had MAJOR motion issues that i didnt want to bring up to the customer. I do not notice that much motion sickness off any of my 4k minis, i dont have an OLED but do have a 75" 940 series Sony.
> 
> Doesnt anyone notice the severe judder on any streaming service?? It drives me insane.


Never had that issue. Sounds like the TV settings were not correct


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## JodeanSS (11 mo ago)

compnurd said:


> Never had that issue. Sounds like the TV settings were not correct


Most people dont notice the judder till i point it out, then they cant unsee it.


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