# R15 is a SHAME according to troubleshooter!



## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

http://www.troubleshooter.com/ConsumerInformation/ColumnDetails.cfm?ColumnID=694



> Direct TV replaced the R10 Direct TV/ Tivo DVR with the new R15 Direct TV DVR. It was touted as the latest and greatest in technology. So I decided to put it to the Troubleshooter Fame or Shame test.
> 
> I had three R10 Direct TV/ Tivo DVRs in my house and wanted to add 2 more units. Direct TV no longer offered the R10, they had already switched to an in house proprietary DVR that the claimed to be superior.
> 
> ...


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The bulk of that review appears to be a comparison of R15 versus Tivo. That is not a valid review, as they are two totally different products. We spent the firsts 3 or 4 months of the R15 having that debate over and over and over.

Compliment or criticize on it's own. It isn't a Tivo, whether you like that fact or not.

Carl


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

People who have never used a TiVo won't know the difference.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

jdspencer said:


> People who have never used a TiVo won't know the difference.


That's not true. I have two people I recommended to DirecTV that have NEVER used a TiVo. Both of them complain to me NON-STOP about the R15...


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

jdspencer said:


> People who have never used a TiVo won't know the difference.


I respectfully disagree. I bought Tivos for two family members. But, my personal introduction to DVRs was the R-15. Relative to any reasonable standard of reliability, my personal experience has been highly negative.

My opinion takes no account of differences in the user interface or related aspects of product design. Not having sufficient experience with the Tivo, I can't say which DVR I prefer in principle. For all I know, if my R-15 were reliable, I might strongly prefer it to the Tivo.

Cheers,


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I think the article is very fair. It does not bash just states the writers opinion and I have felt likewise at times about throwing my remote.

Let anyone here dispute most of what it says. I see one error about the 30 second advance and a personal preference about the menu system and Tivo beep.

Its sad that what he says is true after 14 months but it is. The R-15 is slow, prone to lockups or at the minimum needing resets, it is not 100% reliable, has the limits mentioned. You do need to reformat sometimes and many have, myself twice, one of each R-15, over the last 14 months.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

Agreed, the article is very fair. I've had the reported problems with my R15. My R10 Tivo unit works perfectly with no problems. Even someone who has never used TIVO before realizes the R15 has problems when it freezes, locks up, and therefore misses recordings.

In fact, I am returning my R15, and replacing it with another reliable R10 I found at Circuit City this weekend.


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## Mrpalmer420 (Jan 9, 2007)

I agree with Carl i have never owned a Tivo nor have i ever used a family mambers. i am very happy with my r15. I have actually been very happy that i didn't ahve the Tivo because then i can look at this a a complete nd seperate thing.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I have recorded about 200 movies in the last three months and copied them to DVD. Of these, I have watched about 50. The R15 is left unattended while playing these movies to the DVD recorder, and so far I have had ZERO movies mess up.

Remember, I am watching them back from the DVD, so if there was a problem, I would just be outta luck. But not one has had any kind of problem. So far, they all played perfectly into the DVD recorder.

I can't explain why my 3 R15s have been so trouble-free. I suppose if D* could, they'd fix them all.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I will agree with the Season Pass "issue"... but he compared the Sason Pass to the ToDo List.

50 SL's and a floating 100 item toDo list... not optimal in the R15, but at least that what it is. 

"Programmed" for 30s skip... well instead of stating that the R15 can't "skip", but it can slip. 

DTivos are "slow" in response to their remotes as well, and on occasion do need reboots and freeze... not as often... but to "nudge" that they don't.

TiVo Beeps... shmeeps...... 

The "only" advantage? Is Cost savings to DirecTV ?

Also based on the dates, the user may or may not have the latest software version. And it would also help if he stated the EXACT model number.


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## jal (Mar 3, 2005)

R15-500. I have never had to reboot my R10, and agreed, the menu is slower, but for the core DVR functions, in my humble opinion, the R10 is much more reliable.

Maybe when Liberty takes over, TIVO will be back.


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## nyzorro99 (Aug 29, 2006)

adam1115 said:


> That's not true. I have two people I recommended to DirecTV that have NEVER used a TiVo. Both of them complain to me NON-STOP about the R15...


Imagine the complaints if they had a Tivo first....


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I will agree with the Season Pass "issue"... but he compared the Sason Pass to the ToDo List.
> 
> 50 SL's and a floating 100 item toDo list... not optimal in the R15, but at least that what it is.
> 
> ...


Season pass issues mean it isn't doing what it's supposed to. It's been out for well over a year, it should be fixed by now.

Hardware version???? This is a brand new product. Are there now hardware problems on top of the software issues? Are people expected to REPLACE their 1 year old DVR all READY??


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

adam1115 said:


> Season pass issues mean it isn't doing what it's supposed to. It's been out for well over a year, it should be fixed by now.
> 
> Hardware version???? This is a brand new product. Are there now hardware problems on top of the software issues? Are people expected to REPLACE their 1 year old DVR all READY??


That is not what the article said... and not what I was "referring" to.


"Trobleshooter Article" said:


> The R10 lets you schedule as many season passes (automatic show recordings) as you wish, the R15 limits the amounts of shows allowed in the "To Do" list. On the R15 it should be called a "might" list, as it might record or it might malfunction


He first states that the Season Passes ... unlimited on the Dtivo.
My comment, was about the author comparing two things that are not the same thing

And you know what... IMHO... It works as I ask it to..
Yes, there are still some combinations or shows that people have set to record. But frankly... to "volume" of missed recording posted has dropped drastically in that year.

On the R15 in my bedroom, which about 25 SP's... I haven't missed a recording of anything in probably 9 months now. So either I have "magic" wiring in the house... or it is doing something right.

Harware version...

The unit is now 15 months old... I would like to see his "reasons" for replacing the hardware. I would bet the first one was replaced because of the software issues... and the CSRs (which still replace them thinking it is a hardware issue).

Also... You do realize, that there are flat out cases where the hardware dies... even if it is a day old? I have had hard drives out of the box that where bad... See reports of TiVos (both SA and DTivo), Replays, Computers... all of which that have hardware issues right out of the box.

It does happen.... doesn't matter if it is a week old... and 10 years old.. 
It can happen.

As for "people" replacing it after 1 year... 
I don't see a "massive" trend of people replacing them... for true hardware issues. Even people replacing it for software issues...


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

As I've said before, I've had my R15 for over a year now (about 15 months now). I got my R10 one month before I got the R15. 

In that time, I've only HAD to reboot the R15 once. I've had it record some repeats, but it has never missed a recording. It has only recorded a partial about 3 times since I've had it. Those were all on the same software version a while back where many had a black screen while playing a recording, but still had the sound. That problem was fixed with a new software version.

In that same timeframe, I'm on my 3rd R10. The first one had the power supply go bad. The second, the hard drive went bad. I have had to reboot the R10 about 5 times, not counting the recent rash of Dtivos rebooting themselves.

As for the 30 second skip. If it is something you have to hack or "program" to get it to work, as far as I'm concerned, it didn't come with this feature and it doesn't qualify to be included in the comparison. 

In my eyes the reviewer lost all credibility by including that and not pointing out that the R15 has a very similar feature that you don't have to "program" it to get. I bet that he really doesn't have an R15, but instead is using info he has seen on internet forums such as TCF as his source.


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

carl6 said:


> The bulk of that review appears to be a comparison of R15 versus Tivo. That is not a valid review, as they are two totally different products.


The first reviews of automobiles most likely compared them to horses, even though they're "totally different products." The point of comparison is that both products meet a similar need: transportation. In the case of the R-15 and the T***, both products provide a way to capture and store digital TV content. In my opinion, a comparison of the two products is valid and the specific comparison under discussion makes important points that I wish had been considered before my R-15 was given to me as a gift.

OTOH, I fully understand that many here are tired of hearing about the T***. It's just that I'm unsure of the reason. Has the conversation grown stale or is it a case of T*** envy? 

Cheers,


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

carl6 said:


> The bulk of that review appears to be a comparison of R15 versus Tivo. That is not a valid review, as they are two totally different products. We spent the firsts 3 or 4 months of the R15 having that debate over and over and over.
> 
> Compliment or criticize on it's own. It isn't a Tivo, whether you like that fact or not.
> 
> Carl


Comparing two DTV DVR choices is absolutely valid.

A DVR is supposed to reliably record shows it's programmed to. The Tivo does, the R15... not so much.

Comparing the interfaces is a matter of preference but still possibly valid for people who are choosing between the two, but comparing basic DVR fuctionality and reliability is absolutely correct, valid and appropriate.

ApK


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> DTivos are "slow" in response to their remotes as well, and on occasion do need reboots and freeze... not as often... but to "nudge" that they don't.


When I bought my wife a T*** several years ago, I watched my son--to whom I'd given one the previous year--set it up. I was surprised and somewhat disappointed that some searches entailed rather long wait times. This seemed to indicate a poor database design that would have benefitted from additional indexing. (I'm aware that the data is manipulated in RAM but the term is nevertheless apt.)

OTOH, my wife has never had to tweak her T*** and doesn't know how. My son has not tweaked it on her behalf. It's been as reliable as any other household appliance--more reliable than many.



Earl Bonovich said:


> TiVo Beeps... shmeeps......


The absence of audio feedback is a serious omission in the context of relatively slow response to commands and fairly frequent lockups, and contributes to user anxiety. I'm never sure whether a given command has been accepted and often suspect that the unit has crashed when it's merely processing. Adding audio (or fast video) feedback would significantly improve the user interface.

Cheers,


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I would like to see his "reasons" for replacing the hardware. I would bet the first one was replaced because of the software issues... and the CSRs (which still replace them thinking it is a hardware issue).


I agree. I believe that my first R-15 was the only one of the three I've had that was free of hardware problems. It was purchased at Best Buy rather than supplied by DTV.

Exactly as you suggest, my unit was replaced at the insistence of a CSR who insisted that no other R15 users were having problems and so I must have bad hardware. I protested for a time but ultimately acquiesced, to my own disservice. I every much wish I could get that unit back. I suspect that most of the issues I'm now experiencing _are _ are to bad hardware.

Cheers,


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

wbmccarty said:


> OTOH, I fully understand that many here are tired of hearing about the T***. It's just that I'm unsure of the reason. Has the conversation grown stale or is it a case of T*** envy? s,


No, the reason we are tired of it is illustrated by our new smilie::beatdeadhorse:


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## wbmccarty (Apr 28, 2006)

:lol: Nice similie!

For the benefit of those whose poor vision requires use of a reader and who cannot view images such as smilies, I'll explain that the image consists of a dead horse beating a smiling face.  

Cheers,


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So either I have "magic" wiring in the house... or it is doing something right.


Its not magic its called not biting the hand (DirecTV) thats feeding you. 

Sure its WAY better now but for any power user or couch potato it still lacking. Joe Do with a handful of SL's and watches 2 shows a night might never see some of the problems.


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## adam1115 (Dec 16, 2003)

Ok, I will concede that the author is HEAVILY biased towards TiVo, as I listened to him rant about it on the troubleshooter radio show... While I agree with him, it isn't necessarily a fair example of how the R15 is crap...


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

The Troubleshooter has a radio show in the Denver, Colorado area. He is the best at fame or shame. He doesn't compare one thing to another. He will give you the Facts. Real trial only.
If anyone can get D* to fix their R-15 mistake, it is Tom Martino!


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

irmolars said:


> He doesn't compare one thing to another. He will give you the Facts.


Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounded like a comparison to me. Not to mention that most of his "facts" seem to be a little off base as well.


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## samo (Nov 9, 2002)

irmolars said:


> The Troubleshooter has a radio show in the Denver, Colorado area. He is the best at fame or shame. He doesn't compare one thing to another. He will give you the Facts. Real trial only.
> If anyone can get D* to fix their R-15 mistake, it is Tom Martino!


Article was not written by Tom Martino, it was written by his executive producer. But I disagree with you on Tom Martino also. Although his show is very entertaining, it is far from being fair. "Shame" or "great" on his show largely depends on advertising relations. If company advertises on his web site it almost never gets "flamed". Some of the biggest crooks in Denver mortgage business are his advertisers and they proudly display "Member of Tom Martino network" on their fraudulent advertisement. Just open The Denver Post on Sunday and call these crooks to get the rates they advertise.
And call troubleshooter.com to find out how much he charges for advertisement (membership). Then connect the dots.


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

samo said:


> Article was not written by Tom Martino, it was written by his executive producer. But I disagree with you on Tom Martino also. Although his show is very entertaining, it is far from being fair. "Shame" or "great" on his show largely depends on advertising relations. If company advertises on his web site it almost never gets "flamed". Some of the biggest crooks in Denver mortgage business are his advertisers and they proudly display "Member of Tom Martino network" on their fraudulent advertisement. Just open The Denver Post on Sunday and call these crooks to get the rates they advertise.
> And call troubleshooter.com to find out how much he charges for advertisement (membership). Then connect the dots.


These people claim to be on his list, but they are not . So I have to disagree, sorry.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

What a waste of internet space. And this is supposed to be from a respected consumer advocate?

With all the real issues plaguing the R15, all they could come up with is comparisions of the user interface to TIVO?

The closest they got to discussing real issues was a comment on the ToDo List limits (and they even screwed up the comparison).

I would have expected a professional to provide a real analysis of issues like missed recordings, partial recordings, FR/RR issues, and lock-ups.


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