# Official "no OTA" venting thread



## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

Earl said open one... since all the other 0x104 / 108 discussion is being pointed to the main thread, and the main thread is not for venting.


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

Meklos said:


> Earl said open one... since all the other 0x104 / 108 discussion is being pointed to the main thread, and the main thread is not for venting.


VENT. not having local CBS on D* is a pain and almost 3 months now without the OTA HD channels is getting the wife a little impatient. Have been able to keep her happy so far with promises of coming soon but today she asked so can we get local CBS in HD yet


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

I was going to start one myself, but I was too busy venting on other threads. I'm really aggravated with DTV and their business practices. Maybe we should start a poll as to when and if we think OTA will be released nationally.


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## nocaster (Nov 2, 2006)

Ok, here goes. People on the west coast who already have HD locals over SAT get OTA and now a ViiV feature that is probably not going to be widely used while the rest of us get....nothing.

Thanks D*. This OTA thing was a little annoying at first, now it's starting to tick me off.


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

I wonder what would happen if all of us east coasters all called at once to cancel our service unless they give us our OTA. I wonder what that would do to DTV's customer base, losing half of their customers.


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

Only reason I see to release 0x108 so quickly after 0x104 is to fix something bad wrong in 0x104. But then if that's the case, why add new features in addition to a bug fix? 

Doesn't make sense.


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## nocaster (Nov 2, 2006)

Strejcek said:


> I wonder what would happen if all of us east coasters all called at once to cancel our service unless they give us our OTA. I wonder what that would do to DTV's customer base, losing half of their customers.


<sarcasm>
They would probably post a large quarterly revenue gain due to the collection of cancellation fees and see their stock raise a few points.
</sarcasm>


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

Meklos said:


> Only reason I see to release 0x108 so quickly after 0x104 is to fix something bad wrong in 0x104. But then if that's the case, why add new features in addition to a bug fix?
> 
> Doesn't make sense.


They must be under a lot of pressure from Intel.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Meklos said:


> Only reason I see to release 0x108 so quickly after 0x104 is to fix something bad wrong in 0x104. But then if that's the case, why add new features in addition to a bug fix?
> 
> Doesn't make sense.


Hence the purpose of a staggard release....
And as for adding the ViiV... it was supposed to be in 0x104, but at the last minute they took it out, as they didn't have all the I's and T's crossed...


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

nocaster said:


> <sarcasm>
> They would probably post a large quarterly revenue gain due to the collection of cancellation fees and see their stock raise a few points.
> </sarcasm>


Never thought about that, I knew there was a real reason behind them not releasing OTA. They want us to leave. :hurah:


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## belboz (Oct 15, 2006)

What sucks is seeing new features get added like OTA and the photo/music stuff in two different releases that I have yet to see, WHILE I have a unit that has problems recording shows and requires resets to fix. Caller ID is buggy for me, etc.

If 0x104 was just an OTA release and didn't fix other bugs it wouldn't bother me if it is a slow roll out. If 0x108 was just the photo/music stuff it wouldn't bother me if it was a slow roll out.

But how about fixing the bugs that are hurting many (but not all) of us? Get that out to us. 

I am all for new features and if they insist on fixing bugs and adding new features in the same release, it would be nice if staggered roll outs went faster.


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

spidey said:


> VENT. not having local CBS on D* is a pain and almost 3 months now without the OTA HD channels is getting the wife a little impatient. Have been able to keep her happy so far with promises of coming soon but today she asked so can we get local CBS in HD yet


She missing her Y&R in HD?


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hence the purpose of a staggard release....
> And as for adding the ViiV... it was supposed to be in 0x104, but at the last minute they took it out, as they didn't have all the I's and T's crossed...


i dont care about ViiV support I just want the OTA!!!!!


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hence the purpose of a staggard release....
> And as for adding the ViiV... it was supposed to be in 0x104, but at the last minute they took it out, as they didn't have all the I's and T's crossed...


OK, so then the smart thing (smart meaning not teeing everyone off) would be to get the 1st set of new features out there to everyone before adding the 2nd set of new features.

I don't understand adding new features to a bugfix release. It's either a quick bugfix roll it out quickly release, or it's a new feature release roll it out slowly. Doing both and rolling both out slowly is just asking to have upset customers (like they do now).


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Meklos said:


> I don't understand adding new features to a bugfix release. It's either a quick bugfix roll it out quickly release, or it's a new feature release roll it out slowly. Doing both and rolling both out slowly is just asking to have upset customers (like they do now).


So far, every release _*has*_ been a bug fix release. At least in terms of every release so far has included at least 1 bug fix.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Meklos said:


> OK, so then the smart thing (smart meaning not teeing everyone off) would be to get the 1st set of new features out there to everyone before adding the 2nd set of new features.
> 
> I don't understand adding new features to a bugfix release. It's either a quick bugfix roll it out quickly release, or it's a new feature release roll it out slowly. Doing both and rolling both out slowly is just asking to have upset customers (like they do now).


But it only upsets customers that know about it.

As many of you often point out, this forum is just a tiny small subset of the HR20 user base. So unless you know about this, or one of the other forums that talk about the HR20...

You would have no idea that this is even going on.......

So... this is my last post in this thread... as it seriously is just starting to make my blood boil a bit.... I said you all can vent... have at it....


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hence the purpose of a staggard release....
> And as for adding the ViiV... it was supposed to be in 0x104, but at the last minute they took it out, as they didn't have all the* I's and T's crossed*...


Well, this explains some problems with D* in general...they're going around crossing *I*'s when they're supposed to dot them.


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## Dusty (Sep 21, 2006)

nocaster said:


> Ok, here goes. People on the west coast who already have HD locals over SAT get OTA and now a ViiV feature that is probably not going to be widely used while the rest of us get....nothing.
> 
> Thanks D*. This OTA thing was a little annoying at first, now it's starting to tick me off.


Not the west coast. Only LA DMA. They are almost like another country. How good it is for a test?


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But it only upsets customers that know about it.
> 
> As many of you often point out, this forum is just a tiny small subset of the HR20 user base. So unless you know about this, or one of the other forums that talk about the HR20...
> 
> ...


Part of me wants to post a flame for basically saying that we should shut up, cause without this forum, we wouldn't know anyway.

Part of me wants to thank Earl and apologize for even bringing up the subject, since he's done so much for us.

Part of me wants to tell D* that it pisses off the 'have nots' when we see the 'haves' get not one, but two new releases that add new features.

I guess I'll just slink off in the corner and pretend I never saw this post, because I'll probably say something I'll regret later.


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> Well, this explains some problems with D* in general...they're going around crossing *I*'s when they're supposed to dot them.


:hurah: :lol: :hurah: :lol:


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## nocaster (Nov 2, 2006)

I think the "obvious" thing Earl mentioned last week is now out in the open. OTA is a big part of the HDTV landscape but on the surface D* doesn't stand to make any profit from it. Nevermid that I have purchased three recievers from D* just for their OTA integration and I'm sure they are making something from that. However, this ViiV thing is probably a partnership with Intel and there are lots of dollars at stake.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ViiV looks to me like a marketing campaign for a hardware based DRM conduit. Thanks, but no thanks. I doubt this will take off.


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

machavez00 said:


> She missing her Y&R in HD?


No shes missing out on college football/basketball in HD


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

Meklos said:


> I guess I'll just slink off in the corner and pretend I never saw this post, because I'll probably say something I'll regret later.


Which is why I did not respond to Earl. I value his knowledge and respect him too much. I guess he would not really understand our frustration, because he certainly is not one of us "have nots." Must be lucky to be Earl.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

belboz said:


> If 0x104 was just an OTA release and didn't fix other bugs it wouldn't bother me if it is a slow roll out. If 0x108 was just the photo/music stuff it wouldn't bother me if it was a slow roll out.
> 
> But how about fixing the bugs that are hurting many (but not all) of us? Get that out to us.
> 
> I am all for new features and if they insist on fixing bugs and adding new features in the same release, it would be nice if staggered roll outs went faster.


Very, very, VERY well-put. I want bug-fixes for black-screen recordings (which I've only had under 0xFA) and GUI lockups (my most recent was less than 2 days ago, also under 0xFA). It's been almost three weeks without an update for most of us and I'm getting antsy for those "additional stability fixes" or whatever the release notes call them. If you don't want to give the rest of us Viiv (BFD ) and OTA (don't want it), fine! Give us an interim bug-fix release instead of making us wait ANOTHER week to see if THIS is the "magic bullet." Sheesh.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Meklos said:


> Part of me wants to post a flame for basically saying that we should shut up, cause without this forum, we wouldn't know anyway.
> 
> Part of me wants to thank Earl and apologize for even bringing up the subject, since he's done so much for us.
> 
> ...


I know I said I wouldn't post again, but...

But you basically have described how I have felt for the last 90 minutes reading all the other threads. And what I wrote, is about as close as you will come to see me "vent" around here... unless I really explode (which has only happend once or twice).

I am not trying to tell you all to shut up, and go piss off... 
You all have a "right" to be ticked, that is your given right.... and that is the purpose of the forum boards, so you all can discuss...

I just think mountains are being made out of mole-hills here.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Strejcek said:


> Which is why I did not respond to Earl. I value his knowledge and respect him too much. I guess he would not really understand our frustration, because he certainly is not one of us "have nots." Must be lucky to be Earl.


I do appricate your frustrations... seriously do.
And I am not trying to belittle them....

I just look at things through a different set of glasses... not because I am a "have"... just I look at things in a bigger picture sense... not so much focused on how I am going to watch tonights 9pm repeat of CSI:NY in OTA, but that when the season starts up again in January, that I will be able to watch it in OTA...


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Strejcek said:


> I wonder what would happen if all of us east coasters all called at once to cancel our service unless they give us our OTA. I wonder what that would do to DTV's customer base, losing half of their customers.


Wrong approach -- first they won't take you seriously (I don't like my face so...)

Second, we need to make an impact. You do that by escalating. Call D* and explain you are a committed customer (since 1993 or whenever it was that D* went live), that you are a DBSTalk contributor for Hr20 and you want my 108. When they say I'm sorry, insist on speaking to their supervisor and start over again. Go as far as you can before they hang up on you. They WILL get the message.


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## bagleyb (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> as they didn't have all the I's and T's crossed...


They haven't had all their I's dotted and T's crossed since day one on this box.

How can you release an HD receiver with a substantial portion of the HD capabilities disabled? It's not like it's their first HD receiver, or even their first HD DVR for that matter. Yes, I know it's the first in house HD DVR, but it's not their first in house HD receiver.

Hell, I've had HD receivers with OTA from D* for 2 1/2 - 3 years now, it's not new to them!

I know they had to get to the market to compete with the Tivo S3, but give us other options if it's not ready for prime time.

And before anyone says you should have done your research before getting the HR20, I did. I had a Sony HD-300 and I was waiting for the HR20 to be released and "broke in" before I upgraded. However, the OTA and cable tuners on the HD-300 went out. I called and asked for the HR10, knowing the OTA limitations of the HR20. I even told the CSR I wanted the HR10 because OTA wasn't available. He told me his notes said it was active now, and that I they couldn't sell me an HR10 anyway. When it showed up and wasn't active, I asked them to send me a refurb'd H20 so I could get OTA until the HR20 was working like it should. They refused.

I'm a very patient person, and until this weekend I hadn't really complained about the delay in OTA. I may have made a few sarcastic remarks, but I was willing to wait. I'm out of patience now though.

Am I going to cancel? No. However, I can't in good faith reccomend this receiver to anyone. In fact, I had a co-worker ask me who to go with for satellite HD with a DVR earlier this week. I pointed him towards Dish. I told D* was the better option long term, but right now Dish was better, especially if OTA is important, and it was for them.

Now that I find out viiv is being released with OTA, I'm at my wit's end. I realize they're probably two different development teams, but there's no way they should delay OTA going national to get viiv in the same release.

As I said yesterday, I missed the Race for the Chase and every single Sunday football game this season, not to mention all of the college games in HD. I don't buy ST because my teams are always broadcast local. Luckily one of them plays Saturday night, so I at least get to see that game in HD this week. The other plays Sunday night though, and it looks like I'm going to miss that one.

For those of us in smaller town without HD LiL, OTA is far and away the most important update needed for this box. From all the posts on this forum, I think there are a lot of us.


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## Strejcek (Sep 28, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I do appricate your frustrations... seriously do.
> And I am not trying to belittle them....
> 
> I just look at things through a different set of glasses... not because I am a "have"... just I look at things in a bigger picture sense... not so much focused on how I am going to watch tonights 9pm repeat of CSI:NY in OTA, but that when the season starts up again in January, that I will be able to watch it in OTA...


I see what you're saying. It's my fault for buying this unit in Sept hoping OTA would be turned on in Oct. What a minute, you're the one that said OTA was supposed to be turned on in Oct. Earl, it's your fault. (j/k) :lol: Honestly, though, thanks for your timely info on the HR20. And please put in a good word to DTV for us "have nots."


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Meklos said:


> OK, so then the smart thing (smart meaning not teeing everyone off) would be to get the 1st set of new features out there to everyone before adding the 2nd set of new features.
> 
> I don't understand adding new features to a bugfix release. It's either a quick bugfix roll it out quickly release, or it's a new feature release roll it out slowly. Doing both and rolling both out slowly is just asking to have upset customers (like they do now).


Gee, Meklos. You want D* to start acting like a real software development shop -- how quaint!


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## nocaster (Nov 2, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I know I said I wouldn't post again, but...
> 
> But you basically have described how I have felt for the last 90 minutes reading all the other threads. And what I wrote, is about as close as you will come to see me "vent" around here... unless I really explode (which has only happend once or twice).
> 
> ...


OTA is obviously a hot topic around here. 0x104 was released last week and those of use who use this forum patiently waited over the weekend for it to reach us. Now we get to do the same thing all over again. The holidays are approaching and it would not be a stretch of the imagination to believe that we won't see OTA at all until after that. If there were some sort of reported bug in OTA we would probably be understanding...but instead we see some other feature released. This is frustrating.

No flames are intended towards you, Earl. I don't know how you stand the heat, but I applaud you for doing so. This whole OTA thing is just getting a little aggravating. I'm paying $4.99 per month to use my H20 to view OTA. My TV does not have an ATSC tuner. Using two recievers in the same room is annoying and I get to pay monthly for the pleasure while there is a really nice DVR sitting there with two tuners that are not enabled.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I just think mountains are being made out of mole-hills here.


More like Everest out of an ant hill.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

you can add me to the list of people who are missing 20 channels...


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## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But it only upsets customers that know about it.
> 
> As many of you often point out, this forum is just a tiny small subset of the HR20 user base. So unless you know about this, or one of the other forums that talk about the HR20...
> 
> ...


Maybe your blood is boiling because you have wallowed in all the praise everyone has given you, and now that you have OTA and the mob is a little restless, it's just not worth it. Seriously, I couldn't care less if your blood is boiling, as if we are all supposed to hush because master Earl is pissed? I think someone has taken the attention he has received a little too seriously.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Sigh....I just don't get it.
OTA is available now in testing.
108 is just more stability fixes for that.
If all goes well it will be released nationaly, at least as I understand it.
While they were at it they released Viiv support which was already planned for an earlier release but they didn't have all their contracts all signed up just yet, now they do.

I don't see the big outcry here. Just doesn't make sense. I'll have OTA before the network series start up again in January. That's all that would matter to me.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I know I said I wouldn't post again, but...
> 
> But you basically have described how I have felt for the last 90 minutes reading all the other threads. And what I wrote, is about as close as you will come to see me "vent" around here... unless I really explode (which has only happend once or twice).
> 
> ...


Actually Earl, I think you hit the nail on the head (maybe without realizing -- such a carpenter!). This is exactly the point others have made here. D* keeps making mountains. Every release is major and we get the wailing and gnashing (yes, because we're in the know). What would help a lot is molehills -- D* could provide patches when reasonable in order to fix the "minor" defects. Then when the next mountain comes out, all the molehills get included or replaced.

Does that eliminate all the complaints -- hell no! Does it give everyone a more positive feeling that D* actually cares about customers -- I think so. Does it give us relief from the minor irritants that are MAJOR (double click for Guide) -- absolutely. Do I care that OTA came out Jan 07 instead of Dec 06 because you gave me the Guide fix (and who knows how many others) -- well, I don't care. but I said it wouldn't eliminate ALL the complaints. But at least now D* (and incidently Earl) would have a leg to stand on when they say "be patient".


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

21hawk said:


> Maybe your blood is boiling because you have wallowed in all the praise everyone has given you, and now that you have OTA and the mob is a little restless, it's just not worth it. Seriously, I couldn't care less if your blood is boiling, as if we are all supposed to hush because master Earl is pissed? I think someone has taken the attention he has received a little too seriously.


Earl is annoyed because people are moaning about not having a feature which is in the process of being rolled out. As a matter of fact, I am too. These threads are getting old real quick, for me at least. No need to bite anyones head off. I don't really understand why you're pissed at Earl


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## vb-eagle (Nov 30, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> I'll have OTA before the network series start up again in January. That's all that would matter to me.


What makes you so sure of that? A "promise" from D* or Earl? Good Luck with that.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

21hawk said:


> Seriously, I couldn't care less if your blood is boiling, as if we are all supposed to hush because master Earl is pissed? I think someone has taken the attention he has received a little too seriously.


That's inappropriate, malicious and probably angers me more than any statement I've seen in these forums. Because you're impatient, Earl (the volunteer) has to be more than human and not be affected by all of us venting?! S**** you!

Please go through and re-post here all your suggestions for trying to improve this situation with D*. If there are any, I might apologize.


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Earl is annoyed because people are moaning about not having a feature which is in the process of being rolled out.


And that rollout just restarted (meaning it's going to take even *longer* to get to those of us farther from LA). Why did it restart? To add new features to the already-started 0x104 rollout.



To you, it's "in the process of being rolled out". To others, it's getting farther and farther away because of stupid D* decisions.


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## HockeyKat (Jul 5, 2006)

richlife said:


> That's inappropriate, malicious and probably angers me more than any statement I've seen in these forums. Because you're impatient, Earl (the volunteer) has to be more than human and not be affected by all of us venting?! S**** you!
> 
> Please go through and re-post here all your suggestions for trying to improve this situation with D*. If there are any, I might apologize.


Well said! I was trying to think of what to say to that post without getting myself banned in the process...


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Come on guys lets keep this to D's screwup's... That should be enough to make sure this thread never falls off the first page.. DON"T SHOOT THE MESSANGER!


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## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

richlife said:


> That's inappropriate, malicious and probably angers me more than any statement I've seen in these forums. Because you're impatient, Earl (the volunteer) has to be more than human and not be affected by all of us venting?! S**** you!
> 
> Please go through and re-post here all your suggestions for trying to improve this situation with D*. If there are any, I might apologize.


The part about not caring less will apply to you as well.


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## baimo (Sep 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I do appricate your frustrations... seriously do.
> And I am not trying to belittle them.... ... but that when the season starts up again in January, that I will be able to watch it in OTA...


At least you know you will be able to watch them in January. we don't. I am a little pissed and feel like D is treating us like 2nd class citizens.

Thats my take


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## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> Earl is annoyed because people are moaning about not having a feature which is in the process of being rolled out. As a matter of fact, I am too. These threads are getting old real quick, for me at least. No need to bite anyones head off. I don't really understand why you're pissed at Earl


Who said I was pissed, honest maybe. I would recommend reviewing posts over the last couple of months "with a different set of glasses".


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

[MODERATOR HAT ON]

:backtotop

About the OTA not going national yet..

And stop going at one another... Seriously... if you have an issue with me, or the way the moderators run this forum... PM

And if anyone things you have to be "quiet" because I asked in a certain way, then you simply don't get what this forum is about.

I ask that, to try to keep things from getting to a raging fire, that the source of the issue will be resolved shortly...

And not "destory" the relatively young and fragile reputation of this forum.

So again... if you have an issue with the way I am doing things... PM
[/MODERATOR HAT OFF]


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## Xatrix (Oct 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I know I said I wouldn't post again, but...
> 
> But you basically have described how I have felt for the last 90 minutes reading all the other threads. And what I wrote, is about as close as you will come to see me "vent" around here... unless I really explode (which has only happend once or twice).
> 
> ...


I just want to be able to watch Sunday Night Football in HD... I can't believe I've had to go all season without it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

baimo said:


> At least you know you will be able to watch them in January. we don't. I am a little pissed and feel like D is treating us like 2nd class citizens.
> 
> Thats my take


To date... have I not given you all the information that I allowed to give?
(I've skated the edge a few times)

What makes you think that I a wrong this time?

I knew about 0x108 last weekend, as if you check my posts about "is 0x104 comming", you see me refer to having to wait till Tuesday... as that is when they where deciding to go with 0x108 or 0x104......

DirecTV doesn't want "weeks" to go by... All it takes is a entry into a database, and 0x108 is immediately pushed to everyone.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So... this is my last post in this thread... as it seriously is just starting to make my blood boil a bit.... I said you all can vent... have at it....


You could see this coming.


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

Xatrix said:


> I just want to be able to watch Sunday Night Football in HD... I can't believe I've had to go all season without it.


This is what the people saying "I don't understand, shows don't start back til January" are missing.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> DirecTV doesn't want "weeks" to go by... All it takes is a entry into a database, and 0x108 is immediately pushed to everyone.


Where's this database? maybe we can hack it :lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Meklos said:


> This is what the people saying "I don't understand, shows don't start back til January" are missing.


But you haven't been watching it HD yet... what is one, two, ect more week,s in the big picture. If that one, two, ect.. more weeks, means they catch any major issues... that could cause you to miss ALL your program (SD and HD)

And not just you, but the entire HR20 user base...


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

21hawk said:


> Maybe your blood is boiling because you have wallowed in all the praise everyone has given you, and now that you have OTA and the mob is a little restless, it's just not worth it. Seriously, I couldn't care less if your blood is boiling, as if we are all supposed to hush because master Earl is pissed? I think someone has taken the attention he has received a little too seriously.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't need OTA nor do I care. I truly hope all you guys get OTA that want or need it. 
But don't bite the hand that feeds you. I'm not trying to have a love fest w/ the guy (earl) don't know the man, never met him ,never PM'ed him, but he is pretty much the only one w/ reliable information directly from D* around here as far as I can tell.


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## bagleyb (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But you haven't been watching it HD yet... what is one, two, ect more week,s in the big picture.


But I have been watching HD OTA, on DirecTV HD receivers for years. This is the ONLY D* HD receiver that you can't watch OTA on, and it's capable of it.

It's only because I had a hardware failure and upgraded to the HR20 that I can't. And I asked for something else to get me thru until the HR20 worked like it's supposed to.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Personally, I blame congress. No real reason we shouldn't all get national networks other than congress cow-towing to special interest groups.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Guys,
OTA was working in 104. It's probably working just fine in 108. The Viiv thing is something that was added likely because contracts were signed and pressure was applied. Nobody has Viiv, and the rest of us don't care anyway. This feature doesn't even need to work properly yet. D* has satisfied its commitment to get Viiv in, and that's all they needed to do. If the 2 people in the country start using this feature and it doesn't work, CSR complaints will pale in comparison to what they've gone through with the lack of OTA. My gut tells me the national rollout of 108 will go "very fast". The rest of us will probably get it no later than Friday early AM. Just my 02. I'm remaining optimistic.

And please take it easy on Earl. This guy's hands are tied and he still manages to support us far better than we would ever get from that big corporation.



Earl Bonovich said:


> To date... have I not given you all the information that I allowed to give?
> (I've skated the edge a few times)
> 
> What makes you think that I a wrong this time?
> ...


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## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But you haven't been watching it HD yet... what is one, two, ect more week,s in the big picture. If that one, two, ect.. more weeks, means they catch any major issues... that could cause you to miss ALL your program (SD and HD)
> 
> And not just you, but the entire HR20 user base...


Very few members of this forum are going to look at it from anything except their personal viewpoint. This is a severely complicated issue with the HR10 fiasco side of it. People have been forced into HR20s not of their own volition, those who had OTA recording capabilities before.

Those people are truly broken right now. They had a working box. Now they don't. This release schedule is causing them to be broken even longer, just so D* can push more features out the door (so it seems).

Anyway, we'll see how it goes. Maybe this release could go better if it had a faster processor.  (inside joke about another thread)


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## nocaster (Nov 2, 2006)

Meklos said:


> This is what the people saying "I don't understand, shows don't start back til January" are missing.


Exactly, there is much more to OTA that just first run primetime TV.


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## msm96wolf (Nov 7, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But you haven't been watching it HD yet... what is one, two, ect more week,s in the big picture. If that one, two, ect.. more weeks, means they catch any major issues... that could cause you to miss ALL your program (SD and HD)
> 
> And not just you, but the entire HR20 user base...


Earl I just want to Thank You for all your updates. I am in the Raleigh-Durham area and my issue is more with Capitol Broadcasting than Directv. I will be happy whenever I can get FOX and CBS in HD. At least I see some hope in the near future.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Well "Ota venting" is beating "dual buffers" 4 to 1 :lol:


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

That's because the DLB guys can't switch back and forth between threads without missing something. 



houskamp said:


> Well "Ota venting" is beating "dual buffers" 4 to 1 :lol:


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## nocaster (Nov 2, 2006)

houskamp said:


> Well "Ota venting" is beating "dual buffers" 4 to 1 :lol:


What good are dual buffers when you can't fill them up with OTA signals.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

houskamp said:


> Well "Ota venting" is beating "dual buffers" 4 to 1 :lol:


Yeah, its a non-issue and we're all in a heat over OTA. Sort of reminds me of Sundance (see my avatar) chasing a squirrel. The big difference is that he actually can catch a squirrel unlike us with OTA. (Yeah, I know it's coming and really for me OTA only a nice to have -- I don't even have my new antenna yet. But I liked the symbolism of it all.)

I think the main reason we're all in a dither is that once having tasted heroin (oh, wrong drug, I mean HDTV) we just can't manage on anything else. And we constantly need a bigger and bigger fix.


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## DblD_Indy (Dec 3, 2006)

Canis Lupus said:


> That's because the DLB guys can't switch back and forth between threads without missing something.


WOOF ! WOOF !


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

This whole thing is about "rising expectations". It's an unfortunate side effect of knowing just enough about what is happening to be disappointed. I don't see a solution that doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

No one wants OTA more than I do. I've never forced an update...in fact I think it's silly, when we can wait a few hours and it's there.....BUT I did force an update this morning when I saw that San Antonio got the new update. Of course, nothing was there....I had to laugh at myself....talk about acts of desperation!

I know one thing: shooting the messenger is no cure. Making personal attacks or questioning the motives of other posters isn't either.

It takes so little to piss people off these days. (and I'm not talking just about a silly silver box of electronics).

Despite having high hopes one moment and feeling neglected the next, (it IS frustrating to see an update come and go without even getting a glimmer of it here in the midwest, only to be followed by another update that starts the entire process over again.), I don't feel like I'm getting closer to OTA...not a bit...not in any real sense. (31 December)

I felt I was getting close when 104 made its appearance on the West coast. I felt less so, when I discovered it was only released in LA. I felt MUCH closer when this morning arrived and I saw San Antonio had 108. I feel less so now, looking at yet another "extended staggered rollout". 

I'll be overjoyed if we get it in the midwest before this weekend. I'll be mildly disgusted to get it mid next week, feeling like a red headed step child.

In the end I'll be technically satisfied as long as D* gets it to me before year's end...because that is what I think I was promised. 

Most everything else has been smoke and mirrors, rumor, false hope, false starts and communication nightmares. All of this belongs at the doorstep of D* and has nothing to do with Earl. He's doing his best, given the constraints within which he has to operate. 

At this point w/r to D*, color me moderately irritated...that's about as benignly as I can put it. 

It's quite apparent that anyone who tries to help D* (even indirectly, consequentially or unintentionally), is painting a multi-colored HiDef Bull's Eye on his back and might as well be wearing a "kick me" sign, to boot!

There....I've vented. Do I feel better...not a bit. It's time for a cup of crank and a cigar (outside of course, couldn't expose my HR20 to that disgusting cigar smoke )


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## machavez00 (Nov 2, 2006)

The only reason I am looking foward to OTA is there are OTA locals that D* does not carry and most likey never will. the Phoenix HD locals are ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, and Indi KTVK. At this moment D* does carry my local CW or MyNetwork affilliate, in HD and has dropped the PAX/i local and replaced it with the nework feed(I think this affects all Pax/i locals). D* does not carry our local station TBN because the national network feed, even though they do local broadcasting. I am not interested in watching any MyNetwork novelas(chick flicks), the station carries the Suns games and I would like to see them in HD. ESPN & TNT are blacked out per NBA rules when KUTP is broadcasting the game. I would also love to record the new Remastered Star trek in HD:icon_bb: . If they are picked up soon there will be no need for it other than to watch some of the low power locals once they go digital, and most of those D* already carry. I can't imagine D* trying to carry all the LA HD channels, although their ads sound like they can.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> when the season starts up again in January, that I will be able to watch it in OTA...


Yeah, you can, but those of us on the East coast won't, not at this rate...


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## boatbummva (Sep 8, 2006)

...in our part of VA, OTA is the only way we can watch any HDTV programming. Our local cable company is unwilling to pull a couple of miles of infrastructure down our dirt road unless we want to cough up some big bux!

D* HD-LIL channels won't be offered in our DMA (Richmond-Petersburg) until the new birds are operational (late 2007? Maybe. How about "early 2008?").

In addition, we're in a fringe area for OTA reception, so the 4-year-old ATSC tuner that is in our old Samsung D* receiver is not up to the task of giving us a reliable digital signal. Thus our strong desire to see the (latest generation) OTA tuners turned on in the HR20. Not just to record HD programs, but (hopefully) to give us a more consistent HD viewing experience.

PLEASE, D*, roll out OTA to the rest of the country!

Been lurking and reading the posts in this forum for several months now -- finally felt like I had to contribute my .02 about this topic!


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## dustyzz (Oct 26, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Very, very, VERY well-put. I want bug-fixes for black-screen recordings (which I've only had under 0xFA) and GUI lockups (my most recent was less than 2 days ago, also under 0xFA). It's been almost three weeks without an update for most of us and I'm getting antsy for those "additional stability fixes" or whatever the release notes call them. If you don't want to give the rest of us Viiv (BFD ) and OTA (don't want it), fine! Give us an interim bug-fix release instead of making us wait ANOTHER week to see if THIS is the "magic bullet." Sheesh.


This is EXACTLY how I feel.... Given the number of issues that are being reported for this device, delivering fix fixes should be job one for D* at this time.

 Gosh it feels good to vent a little.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

spidey said:


> i dont care about ViiV support I just want the OTA!!!!!


I just want Manual Recordings fixed!


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But it only upsets customers that know about it.
> 
> As many of you often point out, this forum is just a tiny small subset of the HR20 user base. So unless you know about this, or one of the other forums that talk about the HR20...
> 
> ...


Then maybe we all should just keep our mouth's shut about issues with the HR20 and let D* figure it out for themselves.

Its all fun and games for you since you *DO* know what is going on. You hint about releases and get to watch us squirm. Must be great entertainment. No need to get all high and mighty and lord it over those of us who just want the functionality that is written on the box.

My respect for you took a big hit with that post.


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## upnorth (Jun 21, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Then maybe we all should just keep our mouth's shut about issues with the HR20 and let D* figure it out for themselves.
> 
> Its all fun and games for you since you *DO* know what is going on. You hint about releases and get to watch us squirm. Must be great entertainment. No need to get all high and mighty and lord it over those of us who just want the functionality that is written on the box.
> 
> My respect for you took a big hit with that post.


Oh cry me a river I find it funny that its same handfull of people that are crying in there beer.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Then maybe we all should just keep our mouth's shut about issues with the HR20 and let D* figure it out for themselves.
> 
> Its all fun and games for you since you *DO* know what is going on. You hint about releases and get to watch us squirm. Must be great entertainment. No need to get all high and mighty and lord it over those of us who just want the functionality that is written on the box.
> 
> My respect for you took a big hit with that post.


I'm not sure how you got such an impression from Earl's post. He was only saying that the only people that are probably upset about this are the ones that visit this and some of the other forums that cover this type of thing on the net.

I'm sure Earl wants this released nationally as badly as most of you do. He's probably just getting a little annoyed with this "ranting" because, at least in my opinion, some here are blowing things _*way*_ out of proportion.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Ya know, the snide personal remarks on both sides of this issue are not very helpful. Having a place to vent is NOT having a place to personalize our venting (vent at each other). The miscreant here is D*, the problem is D*...it isn't Earl, it's not the "I've got mine, too bad for you" types, it's not the "I don't care about OTA" types. 

Let's focus whatever venting that needs to take place where it belongs: D*

In the grand scheme of things, this isn't very important....yet I find myself irritated. Once I see that in myself, I am reminded:

"Anger is the guru of sin." (D* or otherwise)


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

If it wasn't for Earl we would all have to call D's CSRs and we would REALY be pissed with that mess of misinformation....


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

hasan said:


> Ya know, the snide personal remarks on both sides of this issue are not very helpful. Having a place to vent is NOT having a place to personalize our venting (vent at each other). The miscreant here is D*, the problem is D*...it isn't Earl, it's not the "I've got mine, too bad for you" types, it's not the "I don't care about OTA" types.
> 
> Let's focus whatever venting that needs to take place where it belongs: D*
> 
> ...


You've secured your place on my forum whitelist now


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> You've secured your place on my forum whitelist now


Gee....is that good or bad (should I be ducking?)


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

BELOW IS FROM MY EARLIER POST #53.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't need OTA nor do I care. I truly hope all you guys get OTA that want or need it. 
But don't bite the hand that feeds you. I'm not trying to have a love fest w/ the guy (earl) don't know the man, never met him ,never PM'ed him, but he is pretty much the only one w/ reliable information directly from D* around here as far as I can tell.

THIS IS THE NEW STUFF.
Earl cannot tell you everything he knows. He is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
He's trying to be helpful on this site and still not break is trust and relationship that he has w/ and D* has w/ him. As soon as he does that, I'm sure all inside information will seize to exist and be passed along, as cryptic as it may be sometimes. 
He's been shot at for the last three weeks. He doesn't need me or anyone else for that matter to take up for him, but man.....

THIS IS GETTNG OLD.....

EDIT:
btw, I would imagine Earl gets frustrated and would like to rail on D* sometimes. Obviously he can't. Again, there's that trust thing that keeps hanging out there in the middle of this.
So to a certain degree it is "Earl's way or the highway" or we get no new information as insignificant as it may be or as important as it may be. If it appears Earl is a little partial to D*, why wouldn't he be. It makes sense that he would considering the position he's in.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

hasan said:


> Gee....is that good or bad (should I be ducking?)


Whitelist = good

Blacklist = bad


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Thanks...it's hard to be certain these days


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## Lfix2 (Dec 13, 2006)

We'll Said.... Don't kill the messanger.....


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## uteotw (Sep 30, 2006)

Dumb question, but I take it if I never had HD before my HR20 I would have to get a new sort of antenna to get OTA, right? How big of a deal is this? Is it worth it?


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## upnorth (Jun 21, 2006)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> BELOW IS FROM MY EARLIER POST #53.
> I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't need OTA nor do I care. I truly hope all you guys get OTA that want or need it.
> But don't bite the hand that feeds you. I'm not trying to have a love fest w/ the guy (earl) don't know the man, never met him ,never PM'ed him, but he is pretty much the only one w/ reliable information directly from D* around here as far as I can tell.
> 
> ...


Yes Yes agree 100% 
I do not agree with all the things D* does but my guess is they would like to get this OTA update out as quick as possible along with some other stability issue fixes.
But then they need to be cautious also.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

uteotw said:


> Dumb question, but I take it if I never had HD before my HR20 I would have to get a new sort of antenna to get OTA, right? How big of a deal is this? Is it worth it?


Nope old antenna wil work just fine... despite the advertizing there is no such thing as a HD antenna


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## Lfix2 (Dec 13, 2006)

uteotw,

You only have to have an antenna that will receive the frequencies that your local affiliates are broadcasting... most stations are now broadcast in the UHF range (during the transition to DT) so you would need a UHF antenna to pick up your locals via OTA. This will change when the anolog transmissions are shut down and your locals begin Digital Only transmissions. They will then move back to their VHF frequencies.

I hope this helps.


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## dogface (Sep 16, 2006)

I know D* has every intention of getting OTA and this latest update out as soon as they can. I understand software updates and processes followed in creating and distributing them BUT I do have to admit it is getting a little frustrating waiting on this.

I guess my frustration really comes from that I haven't seen a thread yet (not saying there isn't one there) complaining that OTA sucks or isn't working from anyone that has 0x104 or 0x108. 

I know once I get this update, I'll be bored because I won't have anything new to be anxious about. 

We'll get it, I know but would love to get it soon that's all.


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## richlife (Dec 4, 2006)

Lfix2 said:


> uteotw,
> 
> You only have to have an antenna that will receive the frequencies that your local affiliates are broadcasting... most stations are now broadcast in the UHF range (during the transition to DT) so you would need a UHF antenna to pick up your locals via OTA. This will change when the anolog transmissions are shut down and your locals begin Digital Only transmissions. They will then move back to their VHF frequencies.
> 
> I hope this helps.


Let me concentrate on the "old" although even a new antenna waving around up there might get exposed to a problem. I have an old (14 years) antenna that seems to work really well for those stations that it receives. The problem is that it's not receiving all the stations that it should be. Most of the UHF range stations don't come in. I've received two suggestions on this. 1) replace the condenser that's wired between the two antenna screws which converts to coax -- it may have "blown" or gotten moisture in causing some signal loss. Did that, no help.
2) The antenna may have been struck by lightning or or other damage that internally "blew" the works (???) -- replace the antenna. Now waiting for my new antenna to be delivered.

I don't know if either of these is right, but the second is certainly possible. I've heard from non-biases sources that there are new antennas with improved technology (still VHF/UHF types -- HD signals still use that path as stated already) that will give better reception anyway.

So if using an "old" antenna, be sure you are receiving all the signals in your area. As it happens, ch.53 is the band for my local 5.1 and one of the channels I can't receive.


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## baimo (Sep 8, 2006)

Earl - You are the best- seriously, I have never seen a moderator on any forum work as hard as you to get as much info out to the board. You truly go beyond the norm

But I am still frustrated with DTV. I understand they have concerns with recording OTA on this new unit, but I replaced my H20 unit upstairs with my second hr20 and now no longer have access to my ota stations. i just want to watch smallville in HD. So please either turn on the OTA or offer the other 2 major NYC locals(9 and 11) in HD-mpeg4. We are a pretty big market. If I had not had so many bad experiences with cablevision, I would switch in a NY minute.


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## ez2logon (Oct 24, 2006)

What a novel idea----to concentrate all the whining and lack of respect into one thread. Brilliant!


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## Xatrix (Oct 10, 2006)

Here is what D* just said to me:

Dear Matt,

Thanks for writing and asking about the software download for OTA on your HR20 receiver. Some local channels in some cities broadcast in both HD and SD. To pick up these HD shows, an antenna pointed toward the transmit towers is required which will be available after software download in early 2007.

Should you have any other questions about the software upgrade, please call our technical support center and discuss any problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to directv.com for the latest news and updates about our services.

Sincerely,

Yvette


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## BuckeyeNut (Dec 3, 2006)

I'm so tired of the contradictions!


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm guessing that MOST people aren't privelage to the information Earl provides to us. Imagine if you were a customer who bought an HR20 and saw that your Antenna Setup was greyed out and after a moment or two of trying to highlight it to enable it would have called up DirecTV and asked them about it ( I use ask lightly because I think there may have been raised voices - from what I see in this thread). They would probably have told you it will be available early 2007 but mostlikely they may have even said later - I would imagine since I never called... You would have been upset for sure BUT(!!!) you wouldn't have worried about any of this until a month from now or longer. We get angry at information which we are LUCKY to have that we really SHOULDN'T have. We all give thanks to Earl, some in different ways (I'm hoping that frustration means that we all care so much ), and we should be happy with what he can tell us when he can tell us but we have to respect him and also remember to respect DirecTV or they can easily shut down this whole operation - Earl and all and I don't think that's a good way to tell Earl we appreciate what he's done. We are lucky and privelaged to have found this place and we should keep it alive and respectable. Most importantly - HAVE SOME FUN!!!


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## tyrap (Sep 22, 2006)

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

The greatest source of people's frustration (in my estimation) is the persistent apparent moving of the bomb line. 

A bunch of us are really hyped up about getting OTA in the HR20. That's a fact. Any potential good news is greeted with high hopes. Any success on the West coast is met with increasingly high hopes. 

One can certainly make the argument that the "line" never moved...it's always been by year's end. However, being exposed to the CSR 2007 fiasco, the release (however limited) of an OTA version in LA, only to be followed by yet another release that has yet to migrate east is a real source of potential frustration. 

Now...let's be brutally honest with ourselves. WE create our own frustration...it has no independent existence outside our own minds. We allow ourselves to become frustrated, we choose to be frustrated. No one can "make" us frustrated...we get to do that job...and we are VERY good at it. 

When something happens, and we have an attachment to a specific outcome, then in proportion to the severity of that attachment, we suffer frustration...which leads to all sorts of bad behavior. We can blame D* all we want (I'll get in that line, at least for a while), but the real source of our frustration is staring back at us as we gaze into the mirror.

When something happens, it is our CHOICE how we respond to it. Our response is OUR FAULT...failure to deliver, poor communication, bad information...that's all D*'s fault. How we choose to respond to that set of maladies from D* is ENTIRELY UP TO US. We can degenerate into bickering amongst ourselves, we can vent our spleen at D*, or otherwise make ourselves miserable.

Let's just not kid ourselves. Any discomfort we are feeling is our own damn fault. We don't have to get pissed. We don't have to get irritated (as I readily admitted to in an earlier post). We can "not like" an outcome without making ourselves (and as many as we can get to tag along) miserable. 

I keep telling myself to be patient. The time to put D*'s feet to the fire is when they fail to deliver on what they promised. As far as I can tell, D* promised ME OTA for the HR20 by year's end. Anything better than that is gravy. I have no right to feel disappointed or irritated if they deliver for that date. It's just waaaay too easy to get caught up on "soon", seeing what's coming down the pipe and having our hopes skyrocket.

I'm done playing that game. I'm NOT winning. I don't control any aspect of the game, nor do I make the rules. So...I'm turning my attention elsewhere...it comes when it comes. If it's not by year's end, I call D* and let them know I expect some "consideration" for their failure to live up to their commitments....BUT, I don't have to make myself mad (read as miserable) in order to make a phone call.


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## fwlogue (Dec 6, 2006)

I have never posted here before but have done a lot of reading. First off thank you Earl for all the info that you do give about future releases and info in general from Diretv. I understand only briefly why they release to only saY LA as that is where there are based, but they are not going to these folks houses asking what kind of issues they are having. If they handeled similar to your software companies which ask for volunteers to beta test there software. They should get a group of people knowingly receiving updates that could either cause more issues or correct current issues. Instead they force a group of localized households the update. Whom several of may not even know they have received the updates. I would think that a group of "BETA TESTERS" would be better as they would know they are receiving the update and be looking for all the changes they could find. Possibly testing the software better than the casual user. It sounds to me like there are several folks here that would be more than happy to be added to a list to receive pre-release versions to test for them me included.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Take your frustration out by "mashing" some buttons tonight.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72983


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## bagleyb (Sep 14, 2006)

I was very patient until the December 1 deadline passed. I was told it was active when I bought it, and then the stickers started to show up on the boxes, and a CSR told me December 1.

If the SD locals in Tulsa weren't so compressed that they're practically unwatchable, I might not be as upset. I literally get a headache watching them on my HDTV. If I want to watch locals, I have to go to my bedroom, and watch them on the 27" Sony.

I don't pay $120 a month for their service, not to mention all the equipment I've purchased from them over the years, to watch most a majority of my programming on a 7 year old TV. Not when I have a $3K TV sitting in my living room.


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## bagleyb (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Take your frustration out by "mashing" some buttons tonight.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72983


Thanks for the information Earl!


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## BuckeyeNut (Dec 3, 2006)

Thanks Earl! :icon_bb:


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## fwlogue (Dec 6, 2006)

bagleyb said:


> I was very patient until the December 1 deadline passed. I was told it was active when I bought it, and then the stickers started to show up on the boxes, and a CSR told me December 1.


I was told the same thing when I bought my HR20. The installer showed up installed the KA/KU and the OTA he told me he did not why they sold me the OTA as that function was not available yet.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

hasan said:


> As far as I can tell, D* promised ME OTA for the HR20 by year's end.


As far as I'm concerned, D* promised me OTA when I bought the box that said ATSC tuner.

The fact that I knew the box was wrong doesn't change what D* was telling me. Just because you know someone is lying doesn't mean you should allow them to continue without calling them out.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

fwlogue said:


> I would think that a group of "BETA TESTERS" would be better as they would know they are receiving the update and be looking for all the changes they could find. Possibly testing the software better than the casual user.


I would agree with this somewhat because I'd like to be one of those TESTERS but if they did do that, I don't think they'd get the same feedback from a group like that as the do with the average joe user. I would venture a guess and say that most people that make their way here are somewhat Tech Savy and would probably be excellent BETA TESTERS but most of D*'s market is to Joe Public (and mostly Suzy because we all know who the boss REALLY is ). That way, they get an average response and will better know how to handle the majority. We are considered the minority here and will just have to do our best with what we've got - and I'm glad we've got Earl!


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

I predict this will become the "I missed the window last night to force an upgrade" thread tomorrow morning.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

I ALMOST missed the update as I had a hockey game from 10:00 until 12:00 CST - made it home in half the time it usualy takes and am downloading as I type. Finally - Thank you Earl!:goodjob:


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## baimo (Sep 8, 2006)

baimo said:


> Earl - You are the best- seriously, I have never seen a moderator on any forum work as hard as you to get as much info out to the board. You truly go beyond the norm
> 
> But I am still frustrated with DTV. I understand they have concerns with recording OTA on this new unit, but I replaced my H20 unit upstairs with my second hr20 and now no longer have access to my ota stations. i just want to watch smallville in HD. So please either turn on the OTA or offer the other 2 major NYC locals(9 and 11) in HD-mpeg4. We are a pretty big market. If I had not had so many bad experiences with cablevision, I would switch in a NY minute.


Boy I feel bad for the guys that missed the update.


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## taonut (Dec 14, 2006)

Klipsch home theater- $3000
New Sony 55" SXRD HDTV with 1080P-$2,000
HR20 HD receiver-$300 dollars
OTA-priceless

I'm upset about OTA because I just dropped some serious cash on a home theater and I can't even record Survivor in HD.

Bummed but hopeful in Indianapolis.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

taonut said:


> Klipsch home theater- $3000
> New Sony 55" SXRD HDTV with 1080P-$2,000
> HR20 HD receiver-$300 dollars
> OTA-priceless
> ...


Welcome to the forums, taonut. :welcome_s

Been there, done that, and surely understand! It should be soon for you. (And if I had the button, I'd release it tonight cuz the release solves several of my problems and doesn't seem to be any worse.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

taonut said:


> Klipsch home theater- $3000
> New Sony 55" SXRD HDTV with 1080P-$2,000
> HR20 HD receiver-$300 dollars
> OTA-priceless
> ...


Nobody records Survivor in HD.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Howie said:


> Nobody records Survivor in HD.


Now, now. His tastes are a personal matter between he and his values.  Besides, he is more likely to be able to watch that than Bikini Destinations without wrath being raised...

All in fun,
Tom


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

tibber said:


> Now, now. His tastes are a personal matter between he and his values.  Besides, he is more likely to be able to watch that than Bikini Destinations without wrath being raised...
> 
> All in fun,
> Tom


I only meant that Survivor is not taped in HD. It is an SD only program.


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## tds4182 (Jul 17, 2003)

Howie said:


> I only meant that Survivor is not taped in HD. It is an SD only program.


The 3rd hour this coming Sunday evening (when they announce the winner for this season and re-unite all the contestants) may be broadcast in HD.

Can't remember whether it was last season or not.


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## taonut (Dec 14, 2006)

Howie said:


> Nobody records Survivor in HD.


Thanks for being contentious. You seem really good at it.

My point is we've been sold on how great HD is, we shell out a lot of money not just on receivers, but everything to make TV viewing an experience, yet we can't watch/record a simple show. For someone like me who is new not just to this receiver, but the whole HD experience, after all the hype, this is kind of a let down.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Howie said:


> I only meant that Survivor is not taped in HD. It is an SD only program.


LOL, shows what little I know about survivor! I only (half)watch while visiting family who watch.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Howie (Aug 16, 2006)

taonut said:


> Thanks for being contentious. You seem really good at it.
> 
> My point is we've been sold on how great HD is, we shell out a lot of money not just on receivers, but everything to make TV viewing an experience, yet we can't watch/record a simple show. For someone like me who is new not just to this receiver, but the whole HD experience, after all the hype, this is kind of a let down.


Jeez, man, I was just trying to let you know that Survivor is not an HD program. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

taonut said:


> My point is we've been sold on how great HD is, we shell out a lot of money not just on receivers, but everything to make TV viewing an experience, yet we can't watch/record a simple show. For someone like me who is new not just to this receiver, but the whole HD experience, after all the hype, this is kind of a let down.


I bought a MITS HD-ready TV with their "promise" to support any future technologies, 5 years ago. Alas, their promise was very broken, they do not support DVI nor HDMI and the upgrade cost nearly as much as TVs do now. (Hence I will never buy MITS again, btw.)

At that time, there was very, very little HD content and NO NFL yet. MAJOR BUMMER! Now that I've recovered from that huge disappointment, it has been interesting observing how each network has handled HD programming requirements by the FCC and what they do and don't send out in HD.

At least life is much, much better now. Good portions of Prime-time are in HD and the studios are starting to take some advantage of the HD benefits. Have hope, the shows are getting there, the picture is fantastic when done right, and it will continue to get better.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Sheryl Rose (Dec 15, 2006)

I've read about people with the 0x108 software still having the unwatchable program bug where you try to play a program from the my playlist and all it does is ask - Do you want to delete this ?

I'm guessing this means there's less and less chance of 0x108 going national now. We'll have to wait and see if the next software update, next week I'm guessing, will go national eventually.


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## baimo (Sep 8, 2006)

taonut said:


> Thanks for being contentious. You seem really good at it.
> 
> My point is we've been sold on how great HD is, we shell out a lot of money not just on receivers, but everything to make TV viewing an experience, yet we can't watch/record a simple show. For someone like me who is new not just to this receiver, but the whole HD experience, after all the hype, this is kind of a let down.


It seems so funny(do not take personally, just a different perspective) to me how some of the newer hd'ers perceive the hd experience. I have been on the HD band wagon since septenmer 1999. I had a hitachi 4x3 hd ready rear projector and dishnetwork stuff, then a pioneer elite ws hd ready, and now have 2 pioneer elite HD plasmas with 2 dtv hr20's and surround sound systems to go with them.

Back then I needed to buy a generic sattelite receiver to pick up the HBO HD preview network on an abandoned hd sattelite. There was no hd programming at all. Then HBO delivered its station in HD to dish and CBS started showing some primetime stuff OTA.
Now even the news (at least nbc and abc ) are in hidef and almost all primetime on all networks is in hidef and I am now able to record them in hidef.
I feel like im in hidef heaven!


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## wakajawaka (Sep 27, 2006)

tibber said:


> At that time, there was very, very little HD content and NO NFL yet. MAJOR BUMMER! Now that I've recovered from that huge disappointment, it has been interesting observing how each network has handled HD programming requirements by the FCC and what they do and don't send out in HD.


There are no HD programming requirements from the FCC. The only requirement is to broadcast digitally (DTV) by Feb 2009. HD is just a subset of DTV and is not mandatory.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/digitaltv.html


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

wakajawaka said:


> There are no HD programming requirements from the FCC. The only requirement is to broadcast digitally (DTV) by Feb 2009. HD is just a subset of DTV and is not mandatory.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/digitaltv.html


I also expect to see that 2009 date get pushed back yet again.

Wakajawaka is 100% correct. The requirement is to broadcast digitally and shut off analog TV signals. Whether those broadcast stations transmit HD over their digital broadcast is entirely up to them.


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## iacas (Nov 18, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> I also expect to see that 2009 date get pushed back yet again.
> 
> Wakajawaka is 100% correct. The requirement is to broadcast digitally and shut off analog TV signals. Whether those broadcast stations transmit HD over their digital broadcast is entirely up to them.


I don't. Not with the whole "Homeland Security" line of reasoning. Every station was required to have a digital signal by July 1 of this year (I believe) and only a few stations nationwide have not done so (including one or two here in Erie, largely because they couldn't get the same channel(s).

In other words, I believe the % of TV stations broadcasting digitally (i.e. having met the July 1 deadline) is probably around 90% or higher.


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## ptighe (Jul 21, 2003)

Sheryl Rose said:


> I've read about people with the 0x108 software still having the unwatchable program bug where you try to play a program from the my playlist and all it does is ask - Do you want to delete this ?
> 
> I'm guessing this means there's less and less chance of 0x108 going national now. We'll have to wait and see if the next software update, next week I'm guessing, will go national eventually.


But it's not like this bug is NEW, it's just not fixed. If D* is waiting for the next national release to be bug free, I fear I may never see OTA.


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## DStern (Nov 11, 2006)

Seems like for most of us DTV customer service was right when they said OTA was coming in Q1 07....

The BETA of OTA started for a select few, but the roll-out for the rest of us is a ways off.

(Which I would be fine with, but I am hoping that some of the bug fixes in the patch help with my general usability issues)


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## ptighe (Jul 21, 2003)

DStern said:


> Seems like for most of us DTV customer service was right when they said OTA was coming in Q1 07....
> 
> The BETA of OTA started for a select few, but the roll-out for the rest of us is a ways off.
> 
> (Which I would be fine with, but I am hoping that some of the bug fixes in the patch help with my general usability issues)


As far as I've seen, these are the new issues from the release: OTA on low VHF stations doesn't seem to work.

Bugs across both releases: Playback goes right to delete or keep

Bugs fixed: Manual recording now working properly.

This list is very over simplified, but given that info, unless there is some other driving factor, I'm not seeing the show stopping bug that is causing the delay. I really can't see them release the week of the 29th, too many people relying on the box for bowl season, so we're down to next week? D* is on my list of phone calls to make this afternoon, while I realize it's not going to get me OTA, I want to make sure they understand my anger of being lied to.


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## I.M. Nobody (Aug 25, 2006)

I just think mountains are being made out of mole-hills here.[/QUOTE]

You can keep the mountain I just want the up dates for the- mole hill
thank you


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

If I was in the 75% of the population that had HD locals, the lack of OTA would not be a big deal. My city was skipped over when the last LIL group was announced, and now it has been over 3 months since my HR20 was activated and still no OTA! At least I can still watch OTA channels on my H20, but it is really frustrating that I can't record late night shows (like Letterman) in HD. Oh well, there is not much I can do but wait and cross my fingers. :rant:


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## cawgijoe (Dec 22, 2005)

I'm not happy that the one night D* decided to open a window, I decided not to look at this forum and get some sleep instead!

Also, I know there are others here who live in my area who got it!!!! ARRRRGGGGG!!! 

I'm ok now.:eek2:


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

cawgijoe said:


> ....Also, I know there are others here who live in my area who got it!!!! ARRRRGGGGG!!!


Automatically or by forcing it w/ 02468?


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Santa may make another run tonight. See thread below.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=754578#post754578


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## boatbumm (Aug 10, 2005)

Go Santa! (He says with fingers crossed and ready to push the red button!) Sure hope this comes to pass.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

I just want to BUMP this for evenflow. He's chatting up the wrong spot.


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## evenflow (Dec 16, 2006)

Coffey77 said:


> I just want to BUMP this for evenflow. He's chatting up the wrong spot.


Thanks, your kindness is appreciated.

Since you guys keep replying to me there, I'll keep chatting it up.


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## Coffey77 (Nov 12, 2006)

evenflow said:


> Thanks, your kindness is appreciated.
> 
> Since you guys keep replying to me there, I'll keep chatting it up.


I know, partially my fault as I saw no one else moved. Sorry, I tried.


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