# DMAs with dual ABC stations



## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

In some of my online reading lately, I have noticed several DMAs have two ABC stations that serve it.

First off is the well known Boston market that includes WCVB as well as WMUR in Manchester just 45 miles away. Both now have the same owners Hearst-Argyle, but for years were owned by separate companies. Both stations are now carried on satellite.

Then, Grand Rapids, MI has WZZM 13 and WOTV 41. The justified reason is that WZZM is 40 miles north of the signals of the other stations, but WOTV is right with the others. Both are carried on satellite.

Tampa/St. Petersburg/Sarasota has WFTS 28 and WWSB --broadcasting on channel 40, but uses its "ABC 7" cable channel branding. The reasoning here is that WTSP (the former ABC station, now CBS) was too far north in the market to reach Sarasota so WWSB affiliated with ABC to serve those areas. The transmitters for WFTS and WWSB are only 20 miles apart. For some reason WFTS wins out on satellite, while WWSB is not carried--wouldn't WWSB be a must carry station as well?

Champaign/Springfield, IL is served by WICD 15 for Champaign for the east side of the DMA while Springfield has its own WICD on Channel 20 serving the west side. Both stations are owned by Sinclair and have identical schedules except for their newscasts.

I find it interesting that these dual affiliates are all ABC stations. Are there any markets that have dual CBS, NBC, or Fox? I do know WHAG 25 is technically part of the DC market although not carried on satellite. It carries primarily the same syndicated shows that WJLA 7 does in the market, yet there are no syndex laws when its the same DMA??

How is it that WHAG is considered part of DC while other stations like WHIZ-TV in Zanesville, OH and WLFI in Lafayette, IN are considered their own one or two county DMA? Why not make them part of the larger markets they are near? I don't understand how Nielsen justifies doing one thing in one area and something different in another.


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## Fifty Caliber (Jan 4, 2006)

Some DMA's have more than one affliate of the same network. Alot of DMA's have more than one PBS station, Los Angeles have four PBS stations IIRC.


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## Jon Ellis (Dec 28, 2003)

Odd, I was just thinking about this the other night. The Lincoln-Hastings-Kearney-Grand Island market in Nebraska has two separately owned ABC affiliates, KLKN in Lincoln and KHGI in Kearney (which has satellite KWNB Hayes Center). That's the only case in the upper midwest where there are two commercial stations affiliated with the same network in one market that aren't co-owned.

BTW, PBS isn't officially a network...it's technically a program syndicator.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

And PBS has funky rules whereby it typically designates one station in each market as the "primary" PBS station, eligible for first shot at fresh programming. Other PBS stations have to use time-delayed leftovers, or what the primary station declines to show.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Look to the north in Michigan and you will find two of each network, although that is more of a station and repeater situation than two separate stations.

IIRC: If there are two stations of the same affiliation within a DMA the satellite providers do not have to carry both unless they are in different states. But they may carry both and when there are significant differences it is a good idea to have both available.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

Philly has 2 NBC's, one in Philly itself, and one in New Jersey. Satellite does not carry the Jersey station.


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## BobS (Jun 23, 2006)

I think the underlying principle - using areas defined for commercial marketing purposes doesn't fit the technology and political reality. Even Nielsen says that it is a misuse of the DMA concept. I would think there is a better way.

Incidentally what is the difference between a "repeater/translator" (e.g. WLUK/WJMN) station and a "satellite" station (e.g. WBUP/WBKP)?


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## FavreJL04 (Feb 4, 2006)

BobS said:


> I think the underlying principle - using areas defined for commercial marketing purposes doesn't fit the technology and political reality. Even Nielsen says that it is a misuse of the DMA concept. I would think there is a better way.
> 
> Incidentally what is the difference between a "repeater/translator" (e.g. WLUK/WJMN) station and a "satellite" station (e.g. WBUP/WBKP)?


Actually you probably mean WFRV/WJMN, right? WLUK is Green Bay's FOX and WFRV/WJMN is Green Bay/Escanaba's CBS.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

derwin0 said:


> Philly has 2 NBC's, one in Philly itself, and one in New Jersey. Satellite does not carry the Jersey station.


This is not technically true. Satellite WOULD have to carry the station if it asked for must carry and if it met the rest of the conditions for must carry. http://ekb.dbstalk.com/20.

See ya
Tony


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

We used to have 2 ABC's in the Cleveland DMA: WEWS 5 "first in Ohio" and WAKR in Akron, which started out on ch 49, then dropped down to ch 23.

Akron is only 25 miles from Cleveland, so the WAKR transmitter(s) were located in such a way as to avoid their signal going north into greater Cleveland "protecting" WEWS' ABC affilliation. In the 80's WEWS would delay "Nightline" but WAKR carried it live. My local cable company would bring in WAKR on the community channel so we could watch Nightlline live, but that was all we could see of WAKR back then.

There is a 200' terrestrial obstruction between Akron and Cleveland that could have been avoided by placing the Akron transmitters on the east side of Akron insted of the west side where they are in the "shadow". Actually both cities would have been better served if all the stations in the DMA were located on top of that 200' hill in Richfield.

Anyway ch 49 today is a PBS station and 23 is a PAX/I o&o. These 2 stations never moved out from the "shadow", while cable & satelite carries both stations today, their OTA signals are very poor in Cleveland to this day. There is a third station in the area, in Canton WOAC 67. Paxon owned that station for a time, and moved the transmitter to the east of Akron and that signal hits Cleveland beautifully with it's 24/7 Shop-at-Home format 

In broadcasting, as in real estate, it's location, location, location!


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

TNGTony said:


> This is not technically true. Satellite WOULD have to carry the station if it asked for must carry and if it met the rest of the conditions for must carry. http://ekb.dbstalk.com/20.
> 
> See ya
> Tony


From old web pages (sorry, unable to find a link) the Atlantic City NBC station (NBC-40) is unwilling to pay for a feed to the POP for either DBS company.


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

> Incidentally what is the difference between a "repeater/translator" (e.g. WLUK/WJMN) station and a "satellite" station (e.g. WBUP/WBKP)?


I've always known it as a satellite station is a full power station that trasmits the same thing as another full power station but may have different commercials. A translator is a low powered station of a full power station and shows the same thing.

And there are 2 of these in the Duluth DMA alone
WDIO 10 & WIRT 13 are ABC affiliates in the Duluth DMA. They co-exist and show the exact same programming. They ID as "10 & 13" which is funny because Duluth has WDIO 10 but cable its 13. Conversely, WIRT 13 is in Hibbing (Iron Range..the Northern part of the DMA) and is on cable 10

KBJR 6 & KRII 11 are both NBC affiliates. KBJR is in Duluth and KRII is in Hibbing (actually nearby Chisholm). The only differences in these stations is a few local commercials and a 5 minute news segment. Both of these are on Dish because even though KBJR is in Duluth (studio, transmitter) they are licensed to Superior, Wisconsin so they were able to get both on with the "different state" rule.

Minneapolis has a Triplex of CBS stations
WCCO Minneapolis
KCCO Alexandria
KCCW Walker
All in the Mpls DMA. KCCO & KCCW use to have different stuff than WCCO but they are now just satellites of WCCO. I think KCCO/KCCW still has some different commercials


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## TonyM (Aug 14, 2003)

Another ABC dual area is Fargo/Grand Forks
WDAY Fargo
WDAZ Grand Forks

These operate independent of each other (different newscasts, different sports, etc)


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## tsmacro (Apr 28, 2005)

Looks like the Tyler-Longview DMA has two of it's own abc channels plus one SV from Shreveport for a total of three!

KLTV - Tyler, TX
KTRE - Lufkin, TX
KTBS - Shreveport, LA


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## akron05 (Dec 14, 2005)

Michael P said:


> We used to have 2 ABC's in the Cleveland DMA: WEWS 5 "first in Ohio" and WAKR in Akron, which started out on ch 49, then dropped down to ch 23.
> 
> Akron is only 25 miles from Cleveland, so the WAKR transmitter(s) were located in such a way as to avoid their signal going north into greater Cleveland "protecting" WEWS' ABC affilliation. In the 80's WEWS would delay "Nightline" but WAKR carried it live. My local cable company would bring in WAKR on the community channel so we could watch Nightlline live, but that was all we could see of WAKR back then.
> 
> ...


Does it seem to you that TV becomes less "local" all the time? I almost see a future where LA, Houston, and NYC are the only network affiliates left.


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