# Give DTV a Final Report Card



## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Well, I've had mine for a year as some of you have. I've watched it get better, worse, better again. I've heard the, "just wait for the next update" line and think that a year of "tweaking" should make it "golden". 

Oh yeah, we now even have Showcases.

TIME TO VOTE!!

Here is your chance to let Direct TV know if they "failed" to provide you with what they told you you were getting.

POLL CLOSES ON 11/17/06


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm not going to vote yet. I haven't had enough experience with 10F1 to determine. As of 10E8, it would probably be a C- or D+. I'm hoping 10F1 will improve that.

Carl


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I was thinking along the same lines as Carl. Somewhere between a C & D. I'd also like to see how 10F1 does on some of the more serious stability issues.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I think the 10 days should give you time to see "vast" improvements. Or not.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> I think the 10 days should give you time to see "vast" improvements. Or not.


Should you not have posted this in 10 days then?


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## dsstalkcom (Oct 14, 2006)

i gave it a D+. missed my first show yesterday.

too many freezes and blank screens.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> Should you not have posted this in 10 days then?


My vote was based on the DTV performance (with regards to R15) for the year, not on whether the recent update works or not...

I would have difficulty given what has transpired greater than a D even if recent upgrade makes it PERFECT as advertised.

To me a C is average or what I expect to be normal for a consumer electronic device I purchase.

This falls well short for me and I don't think 10 days is necesary to determine the score for the previous 355.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

No, a year is a year. That is since it's been out, not since, you or I or anyone has had it. I know that you Clint have an opinion, and you and I know what they say about opinions. While not scientific, the number of voters has always increased each quarter so it's a "yardstick" if nothing else. I 02468'd this latest/greatest update yesterday and think I have a pretty good idea as to if it warrants a "you did a great job Brownie" accolade or not. 

Besides, we're the only folks that read this anyway, right?


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

Poster please change your title to "Give *D* or Directv* a Final Report Card" The acronym DTV stands for Digital Television (aka Digital TV).


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Smthkd said:


> Poster please change your title to "Give *D* or Directv* a Final Report Card" The acronym DTV stands for Digital Television (aka Digital TV).


Did a search for DTV in these forums, 300 hits. Guess they will have to sue me.

Also a google search provides both and the stock ticker DTV is for Direct TV.

"DTV
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
DTV is a three-letter acronym which may mean:

Direct-to-video, a method of film release which skips the theatre screening process and makes the movie readily available for home viewing 
Digital television 
Direct-to-TV, a Commodore 64 self-contained within a joystick 
Democracy, formerly known as DTV 
DirecTV, a Satellite Television company 
D-TV, music videos produced by Walt Disney Productions 
Dealer Team Vauxhall, the group responsible for Vauxhall's competition efforts in the 1970s and 80s. "

( I did try to edit it but do not seem to be able to edit the thread name)

Thanks for the heads up though.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

I only have 2 main concerns with the box...

1. *The First Run Bug*

I know it's not really a bug rather a missing "feature". Makes sorting through recordings a pain in the butt when your record shows off TLC and Discovery that tend to repeat over and over... It also ties up the DVR at times it's not needed.

2. *Series Link Limit too low. * IMO 50 is a low number. I haven't hit it yet so it's not directly affecting me yet. Just seems rather low. I don't consider myself to be a huge TV watcher, but I easily racked up 28 SL's and that makes me nervous knowing that when I hit 50 I'm SOL! :eek2:


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> No, a year is a year. That is since it's been out, not since, you or I or anyone has had it. I know that you Clint have an opinion, and you and I know what they say about opinions. While not scientific, the number of voters has always increased each quarter so it's a "yardstick" if nothing else. I 02468'd this latest/greatest update yesterday and think I have a pretty good idea as to if it warrants a "you did a great job Brownie" accolade or not.
> 
> Besides, we're the only folks that read this anyway, right?


I didn't vote yet. I actually am waiting for the new version to hit my box, tried to force the update but nothing yet. I'm not sure what to give it, mine has been pretty good but the past week or so it's been a little odd. Missed a recording (thankfully not mine) has done some other odd things. I have always had the issue of it recording far more then I care for it to record so I'm hoping that the new update will fix my major complaint with the box FR/Repeat.

Oh as for my comment about the 10 days I was just messing with you.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Smthkd said:


> Poster please change your title to "Give *D* or Directv* a Final Report Card" The acronym DTV stands for Digital Television (aka Digital TV).


There is no need to change it from DTV as this is their Stock symbol and is what many people know it by for a shortened name.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> 1. *The First Run Bug*
> 
> I know it's not really a bug rather a missing "feature". Makes sorting through recordings a pain in the butt when your record shows off TLC and Discovery that tend to repeat over and over... It also ties up the DVR at times it's not needed.


This _seems_ to be much improved with the latest update. It's a little early for me to give it a full endorsement, though. I haven't had the update a week yet.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Gave it a C (because C- wasn't available).

Won't call it a 'Final Report' as I haven't received the much touted Phase 2 of the 'Major Update'.

Hopefully, Phase 2 is where the real fixes are as Phase 1 has done little to improve what I would consider a very sub-par consumer electronics device .
Judging by the bullet-points of the release notes, that doesn't look to promising though...


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

I also gave it a 'C' with 10F1 reliabilty has went up (B?) but with the slowness of the trick play buttons really offsets the reliabilty IMHO.

The reliability wasnt that bad before (for me) now it picks up on and doesn't record as many repeats is the plus.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

F. 
I really thought by now the limits would be gone. Until then it will not be capable of handling the primary viewing location in my house, period.


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

I gave it an F because I'm very frustrated with the continuing problems with the lock ups and BSOD (admittedly I've only gotten the BSOD once or twice in the past couple of months but since there is no recovering from it other then to simply delete the show in question, and believe me I've tried every tip or trick to recover a recording from the BSOD that I've seen posted so yes, that's still unacceptable to me, why? Because in the five years I had TiVo that never happened, not once). 

I really believe that you should not have to put the unit in standby every time you leave the room for a minute or two to avoid the unit locking up. You should be able to pause live TV or a recording and again not deal with the unit locking up more often then not. I have practically given up using pause for fear of another lock up and the guide and my TDL list taking a day or more to repopulate. I am tired of not being able to simply put on an XM satellite channel and leave it playing while I do other things, if I try I come back to a locked up unit. Reformatting, resetting everything, red button reset, unplugging none of that is a solution, at least not for this unit. I'm also tired of babysitting the TDL constantly wondering if it's going to add my auto records and series links. A DVR should be just set and forget for the most part. I know people hate when TiVo is brought up but at least with my stand alone TiVo I was able to set season passes, leave them alone and know when I turned on my TV to watch a show it would be there. Period. 

I just don't believe you should have to constantly fuss over a DVR to get it to do just the basic function of recording the shows you've set up a series link or auto record for.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Why does it have to be a "final" report card?


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## Miss Tivo (Oct 17, 2006)

Without a doubt, this was the worst piece of consumer electronics I have encountered in my life.

Forgetting the incredibly poor user interface, the unit was buggier than Maine in June.

Given the spontaneous restarts, lockups, loss of Series Links, failure to start recording a Series Link until you turn the unit on or at all experienced by myriad users, it's dispicable that DirectTV hasn't recalled the units, much less continues to ship them.

This is clearly a unit that was shipped long before its time.

Using an R15 was like hitting myself somewhere sensitive. It sure feels good when I stop.

I've solved all my R15 problems with a SD-DVR40 from eBay.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Miss Tivo said:


> Forgetting the incredibly poor user interface, the unit was buggier than Maine in June.


Your comment about Maine is HYSTERICAL!

However with the username "Miss Tivo" I'm not sure all will agree with you about "the poor user interface".


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Miss Tivo said:


> Forgetting the incredibly poor user interface,
> 
> Given the spontaneous restarts, lockups, loss of Series Links, failure to start recording a Series Link until you turn the unit on


I personally like the UI much more than the TiVos cartoonish one and happily replaced both my DirecTiVos with R-15's. I have had my share of R-15 problems dont get me wrong, just UI and some other things you said are personal preferences.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

I almost forgot I would give it a C+ or a B- for how it has worked for me so far. I know many have not been using the R-15 since the beginning but those that have know it has come a long way since then. Sure, it still needs some work but what problems your having now are nothing compared to 9-10+ months ago.

I feel that lack of a feature or wanting the R-15 to do something that it was never designed or sold as doing should not be included in this grading as people want all kinds of things it will never have.

Lets base this grading on what features it has and how its working with these features.


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## Larry Daughtrey (Feb 14, 2006)

Bobman says "but what problems your having now are nothing compared to 9-10+ months ago." 
I personally totally disagree with this statement. That might be Bobman's experience, but it certainly isnt mine. I've had 2 R15's from the beginning and since the F1 update it actually performs worse than when I bought them. I think F1 is a disaster and wish I could roll back the update.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Lets base this grading on what features it has and how its working with these features.


Everyone should base their grade on what is the most important thing to them. 
If having lots of features or having features work 'exactly' the way you want is the most important thing to you, then that's what you should base your grade on.
If it's ease of use or UI look and feel, then use that.

For me, whether or not a feature or menu works the way I think it should or looks the way I like is not that important as long as the functions can be achieved.
What I based my C (really C-) on is the basic performance of the device. There is nothing new about any of the technology used in the R15, yet it lacks the basic reliability that is a given in today's consumer electronics market. Even if the R15 had been released in it's current state, it would still be a below average device.

Unfortunately for us, unlike the open market, there is no competition to drive the performance of the R15. There is basically no alternative for this device (aside from the shrinking TiVo device pool), so there is no real consequence to DirecTV for it's substandard performance.

:soapbox:


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I gave it a C. I'm still waiting to C what the R15 is or isn't going to do. What's sad is that I think I've given it a C every time. If I was a teacher I would have to say that the R15 is improving but still doing C work. I don't feel the R15 is apply it's self as much as it can and at times likes to goof off and mess around. It has alot of potenial and needs to start using it.

I still think this is a bad time to vote or poll on the R15. As this poll can't really reflect on what this newest upgrade has or hasn't done to add/subtract from R15.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> Lets base this grading on what features it has and how its working with these features.


I agree, but it sounds like you based your grade, at least in part, on the amount of improvement they've shown since it was released rather than how it is working today. They did a similar thing here in Florida recently with how they graded schools (and as a result, we had no more failing schools  )


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## Miss Tivo (Oct 17, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Your comment about Maine is HYSTERICAL!
> 
> However with the username "Miss Tivo" I'm not sure all will agree with you about "the poor user interface".


All my name means is that I miss tivo. Don't you?


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## cobaltblue (Feb 22, 2006)

Larry Daughtrey said:


> Bobman says "but what problems your having now are nothing compared to 9-10+ months ago.


I agree with Bobman. I've had an R-15 since the begining of December 2005 and the improvements made outweigh the problems at this point. Yes, there is a long way to go on the R-15. I would give the R-15 a C+ and tell it to keep on getting better. Like Earl said, why is this a "final report card"???


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why does it have to be a "final" report card?


1. Because if at the end of the year you are failing, you must start all over again.

2. There is no summer school for Direct TV programmers.

3. There are no TIVO tutors available.

4. If it receives a passing grade all is good.

and my FINAL answer:

5. This is a PVR, not the series "LOST". There is not enough suspense left to keep us always waiting "FOR THE NEXT UPDATE".

Mine is actually working quite well. I have no BSOD, do not "miss" recordings or have many problems at all. But I am concerned that there are still an awful lot of users that do and for that reason I believe there are problems that have not been addressed to the satisfaction of users.

As for the timing with the new update, I wish they had released it much earlier.

How's that for political spin?

Peace


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I gave it a "C" since learning of the RF Remote cpability but D* themselvs gets an "F" for not telling their CSRs the damn thing worked all the time.


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## Miss Tivo (Oct 17, 2006)

cobaltblue said:


> the improvements made outweigh the problems at this point.


If you bought a car with four flat tires, and the dealer fixed three of them, you _could_ say "the improvements made outweigh the problems".

It still won't get you where you want to go.


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## Larry Daughtrey (Feb 14, 2006)

Miss Tivo, Your quote was not from me! And I do not agree with it either!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Larry Daughtrey said:


> Miss Tivo, Your quote was not from me! And I do not agree with it either!


The quote that Miss TiVo was quoting from, was mis-entered when the user trimmed part of the quote....

So when she quoted it, the quote was mis applied.
I fixed the quotes in both cases...


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## Larry Daughtrey (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks Earl. On a side note, you know the problems Ive posted since F1. Last night I did a reset everything hoping that might help. Im still having the same problems and now the progress bar is acting up again. It seemed like F1 fixed it at first but since the reset its back to sticking.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Larry Daughtrey said:


> Thanks Earl. On a side note, you know the problems Ive posted since F1. Last night I did a reset everything hoping that might help. Im still having the same problems and now the progress bar is acting up again. It seemed like F1 fixed it at first but since the reset its back to sticking.


If you have the protection plan tell them that and get a new one, even if the new one does the same thing, make D* get off some of that cash on shipping fees, maybe then they will get it right. While your at it get a free RF remote kit thru Retention, while your on the phone with them, or something else that you'll own and that won't get you jacked for a commitment. If everyone did this maybe D* would get their updates right.


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## gusmahler (Aug 1, 2006)

I gave it an E. It's absurd that I've had to hard reset (and lose all of my saved programs) one of my R15s already and will almost certainly have to hard reset my other one very soon (it's exhibiting the exact same symptoms (the inability to change channels) that the other one had. (The only reason I haven't done the hard reset yet is that I hope the upgrade comes to me before it finally bites the dust).

I actually probably should have voted F, but I mis-read that choice as abandoning DirecTV altogether instead of not buying another R15. Actually, the only reason I would even keep DirecTV is their exclusive sports programming. If that ever went to cable, I'd switch back in an instant.

(I should point out that I have no problems with the features of the R15. When it is working, I would give it an A. I can live with quirks. What I can't live with is electronics that just completely stop working.)


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why does it have to be a "final" report card?


Because I'm clairvoyant:lol:



Earl Bonovich said:


> I know they where considering to stop the release, based on the feedback.
> 
> Guess they made the decision.... I will see if I can find out more.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

4 More days to go and 10 less voters than the mid year poll. Grades not looking as good either.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, after saying I was going to wait and see how 10F1 worked I guess it is now time to vote (at least for me, 10F1 made things worse). I was debating between a C and a D, and finally gave it a D because of having to do reformats and loose all recordings to get the unit going from time to time. Twice now I have had to erase somewhere between 40 and 60 hours of recorded movies that my wife and I had not yet watched. That made the decision to give it a D fairly easy.

The worst part is, I do like the R15. With the exception of the infrequent times it decides to screw up, over the past year for the most part I've been pretty happy with it. If they could just get through the basic stability issues. They really need to set aside all of the fluf (like showcases) until they get the basics done.

Carl


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

carl6 said:


> The worst part is, I do like the R15. With the exception of the infrequent times it decides to screw up, over the past year for the most part I've been pretty happy with it. If they could just get through the basic stability issues. They really need to set aside all of the fluf (like showcases) until they get the basics done.
> 
> Carl


I totally agree, the concept is great, the product is lacking and a year of waiting while much better than it started is too long in the electronic industry.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Just thought I'd follow up on the finals;

6 months ago.................................................................NOW

A -- 1.8%........................................................................3.48%
B---25.23%....................................................................19.13%
C---29.73%....................................................................33.04%
D---27.03%....................................................................18.26%
E----3.6%.........................................................................6.96%
F---12.61%.....................................................................19.13%

Total 111 ........................................................................115


Looks like Direct TV has not yet found that "killer" app that will make the masses happy. 

Thanks to all that voted and good luck!


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

The thing about polls is people are people  and everyone knows the people with problems come to these forums more than the people with no problems.

We all know in reality, no disrespect to anyone, there is no way  the R-15 gets an A or an F under any stretch of the imagination. Take away the A and F's and that would look almost exactly like I expected. A solid C with some working better giving a B and some working worse giving it a D and the few with major problems an E.

Even with its bugs and quirks, anyone that has been using it since then have seen vast improvements in SL logic and stability. Sure some have more problems than others, I have had my share too one just last night, but overall it is much better.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Bobman said:


> We all know in reality, no disrespect to anyone, there is no way  the R-15 gets an A or an F under any stretch of the imagination.


I halfway agree with you 

Seriously. The one thing a DVR must do is reliably record and playback every single program it's asked to. For 22 of us that simply doesn't happen.

And if magically they got this thing working exactly as designed tomorrow, it would still get an F from me because my expectations are that I should be able to setup Series Links for as many shows as my family finds interesting (no, we don't watch everything that gets recorded; there's not enough time. But that's not relevant).


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

walters said:


> I halfway agree with you
> 
> Seriously. The one thing a DVR must do is reliably record and playback every single program it's asked to. For 22 of us that simply doesn't happen.
> 
> And if magically they got this thing working exactly as designed tomorrow, it would still get an F from me because my expectations are that I should be able to setup Series Links for as many shows as my family finds interesting (no, we don't watch everything that gets recorded; there's not enough time. But that's not relevant).


I wouldn't even say halfway, but that is kinda the point of this whole thing. Grading only the performance of the device as a Digital Video Recorder, I give the device a solid F. There is absolutely no acceptable reason for the failure to record a selected program when everything is setup correctly. It may be much better than before, but that does not count. If this device had to compete in the open market place it would have been discontinued long ago.

The fact that I actually prefer the UI and menus over the DTivo box makes up for some but not all of the recording and playback disfunctionality. Therefore a final grade of C-.

However, that was also based on the last glimmer of hope that the forthcoming update was going to address a few of the core problems. Since the first released update failed miserably ( and seemed to introduce a few new issues), i now hold absolutely zero hope that the device will be improved significantly if at all from it's current state.

Final grade adjusted to a solid D. If I were a user who preferred the TiVo interface, this device would most certainly warrant an F.


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## Miss Tivo (Oct 17, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Take away the A and F's and that would look almost exactly like I expected.


Reminds me of the mayor of Washington, D.C: Aside from the murder rate, the crime rate is quite low.


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