# Tivo Vs 510



## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Getting ready to go to a DVR. Tivo is now $99 after rebate while Dish will let me get a 510 for $50. Both will have fees assocciated with it. My question is this:
a: with Tivo do you have to have the Dishnetwork box on the correct channel. Also will tivo work with a different satellite dish as well (the Filipino Channel Direct)

B: Will the 510 let me record from the Filipino Satellite dish. I noticed there is a cable input.

Thanks for the help.


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## dnsc_installer (Sep 11, 2004)

I am not sure about A: although for your B: question you can only record channels that are broadcast by E* on the 510. With the Air/cable input on the back of the 510, you must switch off the 510 unit, or press tv/video while in sat mode to switch to the feed coming in from there.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

OK, to me it sounds like you're keeping E* and just are trying to decide on a standalong Tivo to connect to a E* box or to get a 510. I'd recommend going with the 510 and not a standalong Tivo in this configuration. The Tivo would need to use an IR blaster to control the E* box (slows things down when surfing) plus the picture quality would be degraded since the already compresses stream would need to be uncompressed by the E* box then recompressed by the Tivo. You'd also loose the ability to record Dolby Digital 5.1 audio since there's no way to pass that along to the Tivo. As to question A, yes, the Tivo would need to stay on channel 3 or 4, or used direct video/audio inputs (recommended) and the E* box does all the tuning.


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## geobernd (Nov 4, 2004)

I second RAD...
I would not use a standalone Tivo with E*... The decision should be E* with a DVR (e.g. the 510 or 522) or D* with a DirecTivo. Anything else is more error prone and will give you degraded picture quality....


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Thanks for the advice. I'll get my 510.

Any way to record the other dish? Would Tivo even do it?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

No, the Direct TiVos or any of the DISH DVRs can not record from an extrnal source. Most of the stand-alone DVR/DVD recorders (that is what I am using) will allow you to record from another satellite system (or other source).


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Just told my wife that the 510 is being installed on Friday.
She said she already bought the Tivo.

I WAS convinced I wanted the 510. Besides being able to record another source, are there any advantages to Tivo. The interface seems cool (and the internet programing) 
Does the 510 have any of these features?

Is the Tivo going to be that bad? 

With the 510, I'll get a new switch installed for free too. (but I won't own the unit)


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

buckyp said:


> Just told my wife that the 510 is being installed on Friday.
> She said she already bought the Tivo.


Now your in trouble!


> I WAS convinced I wanted the 510. Besides being able to record another source, are there any advantages to Tivo. The interface seems cool (and the internet programing)


The TiVo has some decided advantages, but it is going to require that you do some funny stuff to make it all work. A TiVo or similar is your only option for recording material from the other dish.


> Does the 510 have any of these features?


The interface on the 510 is OK, but the feature set is not as complete if you subscribe to the full TiVo service. If you subscribe to the cheap TiVo service, the 510 is probably better (but cannot do the other dish).


> Is the Tivo going to be that bad?


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Even at its best quality mode it won't be near the quality of the 510 picture. In lesser modes, it will likely be comparable to VHS modes.


> With the 510, I'll get a new switch installed for free too. (but I won't own the unit)


Ownership of Dish hardware doesn't mean much it seems. Having the switch would be handy of you were going with lots of recievers, but if you aren't its just more hardware. With new technologies coming, leasing is relatively attractive.


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## SAEMike (May 29, 2004)

I would definitely take the 510 because it is an integrated unit, rather than converting and reconverting between the digital and analog. The PQ will seriously suffer. If it were between a DirecTivo and a Dish DVR, I would likely go with the DirecTivo, and if I didn't live in Alaska, I would be the proud owner of one


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

OK, I appreciate the help. Sounds like I wish I had direct TV with Tivo. Unfortunately, I have been with Dish since 98, own all the equiptment, and am grandfathered in for distant locals that I do not want to lose. So I don't want to leave dish. Plus with the International push they have, I think they may have TFC sometime soon and I can get rid of the other dish.

Does the 510 have the search features of tivo? Like searching for programs by name, actor etc...

The network features of Tivo look cool, but my DVD player already is networked so I can watch all my videos off my computer as well as photos and music so I guess I don't need that. The networking of multiple tivos looks pretty cool.

The switch is a big deal to me. the switch is $150 at the store. This will be my 5th receiver. I'll use in in conjunction with the 811 I have. The SD PQ on the 811 is pretty poor, so I hope the 510 is better. I guess the tivo would make it look worse.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Ok, the 510 does have search abilities, but only key word on the title and description. It does not have the advanced search features of the TiVo, but there are supposed to be software upgrades coming. Yes, the standalone TiVo will be able to record from you other sat box, but I doubt that the TiVo features will work with it since the TiVo is more of a US content setup. Now, you also have to keep in mind that the TiVo fee for stand alones is $12.95 a month. Also, you have to have it plugged into your phone all the time since it get's it guide data through the modem. If you do not subscribe to the fee, you will onlt get 3 days worth of guide.

Also, keep in mind that you will NOT own the new switch. It will be leased as well as the new 510. If you return the 510, you will have to return the switch.


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Just had the 510 installed today. Only had about 5 minutes to play with it at lunch, but was pretty dis-satisfied. It looks like it only records what your watching or what you specifically schedule. The Tivo does the name based recording. I thought you could search by show title and record all of them with that name. 
Reading this forum it seems this is not possible but the 510 brochure implies you can do this.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/product_brochures/dish_player-dvr_510.pdf

I'll try it tonight, but am I looking for something that is not there?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

buckyp said:


> Reading this forum it seems this is not possible but the 510 brochure implies you can do this.


The slick says that there are 50 auto/manual timers. I'm not sure how that implies anything like name based recording unless you're applying some wishful thinking regarding what an auto timer is.

To my mind, the only part of the brochure that is bunk is the reference to Video On Demand. That feature is but a twinkle in Echostar's eye for the upcoming 942 (and you'll have to give them a heads up that you want to "demand" something later).


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

The bullet above that says "use search look for favorite program names, subjects or actors".

I guess I read too much into that.

I figured it was like Tivo where you can look us the same and record them.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

buckyp said:


> The bullet above that says "use search look for favorite program names, subjects or actors".
> 
> I guess I read too much into that.


Ah, I see where you're coming from. It is indeed a big leap from doing a one or two word search to NBR which must compare some or all of the program description against what has already been recorded.


> I figured it was like Tivo where you can look us the same and record them.


You can certainly set up recording from the search function, just one timer at a time (once, weekly or daily). I recently did a search for a two-parter and individually chose two airings that were back-to-back after reading that they were indeed 1/2 and 2/2. I should note however that at least one of the 1/2 parts was listed as 2/2 which would screw up TiVo given the same guide information.


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

I thought I figured out how to record from the "other" international dish I had. My idea was to plug it into the Cable/Antenna input, then configuring it using the local channels installation. Only one problem. the 510 doesn't have the OTA tuner like my 811 does. The 811 also has a "back inputs" channel on the program guide.
Is there anyway to make the back input on the 510 come through so I can record it?

Damn, I thought I was a Genius, but I'm just a fool.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

I would buy a 522 from e bay, ONLY a brand new never activated one.

Still have that $5 DVR fee but NO mirror fee you can drop one standard receiver...

Be like having 2 510s plus 522 just got name based recordings


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

I can get the 522 form e-bay, but am not convinced I'll get it activated. Also, I'll have to send back the switch they installed with the 510, plus I don't think I'll get the $50 back. So it'll cost me $50 plus $150 for a new switch, plus the cost of the box.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

buckyp said:


> I can get the 522 form e-bay, but am not convinced I'll get it activated. Also, I'll have to send back the switch they installed with the 510, plus I don't think I'll get the $50 back. So it'll cost me $50 plus $150 for a new switch, plus the cost of the box.


'A brand NEW never activated 522 will defietely be activated Just ask the 30 or so I helped

NO ONE reported any problem at all!

I dont know about the $50 BUT you can get a DP34 switch for less than $50 not $150 e bay

brand new 522s are selling for under $200 shipping includsed


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

dp 3 to 4 just 26.50 including shipping, not brand new biut the seller says he will exchange it if bad.


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Thanks,

I don't know id I can use a DP34 since I have a dish 500 (2lnbs) plus a second dish for locals. Each one has 2 coax coming from them for a total of six. Right now I have the SW 64 I own, plus the 64sw he just installed and 6 smaller switches (sw21 i think) I actually own two of those as well. 

I can get the sw64 a lot cheaper on ebay. I need all of these since I have 4 really old boxes, the 811 and the 510. The 522 would actually add another with the dual tuner, correct?


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Btw, is the [email protected] a consumer complaint line to get things done?

Maybe I'll voice my dissatisfaction to them towards not getting a 522


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

buckyp said:


> Btw, is the [email protected] a consumer complaint line to get things done?
> 
> Maybe I'll voice my dissatisfaction to them towards not getting a 522


YEP thats basically the last stop when you have a real problem. They cant fix EVERYTHING but do very well


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

buckyp said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I don't know id I can use a DP34 since I have a dish 500 (2lnbs) plus a second dish for locals. Each one has 2 coax coming from them for a total of six. Right now I have the SW 64 I own, plus the 64sw he just installed and 6 smaller switches (sw21 i think) I actually own two of those as well.
> 
> I can get the sw64 a lot cheaper on ebay. I need all of these since I have 4 really old boxes, the 811 and the 510. The 522 would actually add another with the dual tuner, correct?


 yeah a extra out to a tv with DVR

Theres a possiblity you might consider

Buy 2 322s that gives you two dual tuner standard boxes keep the 811 and one 522. That gives you a total of 7 outputs at ONE tIME. How many tvs will be watching different stuff at the same time?

This configuration saves you $10 a month in mirror fees indefinetely. In just a year thats a $120

You can buy 322s pretty cheap on e bay. payback would be pretty fast.

Now you have one dish 500 plus a SINGLE dish looking at what 61.5 or 148? Do you have 2 side slot dishes for a grand total of 3? I am confused on the extra sw21s???


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

I apologize I'm not sure. The Installer put it up yesterday. I went to see how he did it and he added a second sw64 on top of my existing one. He then used the sw21st to split the lines going from the dish into both sw64 (since there are two now.) I saw a bunch of sw21's and I assumed there were two from each lnb. (making 6)


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

also, the goal isn't to have a lot of outputs. I just like the dual tuner on the 522 so you can record two shows at once.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Were you able to figure out your TFC recording issues? I had this problem before, and I ended up setting up an old computer and shelled out for an All-in-Wonder 9600 Pro. I use that for my TFC now, and the computer does not do anything but act as a PVR. It is strictly time based, and you probably know how often the program schedule changes in that damn service.

If you can shell out about $400, then go for the LiteOn LVW-5045.

I will order one this week, and hope to get it before the year ends.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

buckyp said:


> I apologize I'm not sure. The Installer put it up yesterday. I went to see how he did it and he added a second sw64 on top of my existing one. He then used the sw21st to split the lines going from the dish into both sw64 (since there are two now.) I saw a bunch of sw21's and I assumed there were two from each lnb. (making 6)


They arent SW21s they are special splitters unique to 2 sw64 applications.

So you have a dish 500 plus a side slot dish for locals and currently have 4 old boxes, a 811 and a 510? you can watch 6 different things at the same time?

Now you could go to 2 322s your 811 and a 522 for a 7 different things at a time.

This would save you $10 a month in mirror fees Thats $120 a year and the 322 is much nicer than those old boxes

To do this you would need 7 sat outputs.

The easiest way to do that is go dishpro completely.

You would need a dishpro twin for your 500 dish and two dishpro 3 to 4 switches cascaded together for a total of 8 outputs. plus you would need a single dishpro LNB for the side slot.

Now all of this will cost bucks However the wiring mess you currentl have would cut the number of cables in half, just ONE for each slot and the dishpro switches just connect together.

Theres a excellent chance you could sell off your 4 OLD boxes and leftover sw64 to cover the cost of the dishpro upgrade.

short term it may cost a little but long term its fewer cables, new nice boxes, lower mirror fees permanetely

2 dishpro 3 to 4 switches $28.00 each Dishpro twin $30.00 Dishpro single $30 for side slot, 2 322s $200.00, 522 $200.00 Total of $516 does incxlude shipping....

Rather than the dish pro switch you could use the NEW one its what $130 BUT it supports old boxes and better yet just ONE cable to 2 tuner boxes like the 322 and 522 by using seperators.

You have LOTS of choices

MYSELF I would do the dishpro upgrade, after checking what iold boxes are selling for. Its amazing what a 2800 is getting these days...

If the rumor is true that next year regular subs will be able to get dual tuner boxes is accurate I think the 322s and 522s will rise in price since anyone will be easily able to get them activated.


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Nice Idea, but I have them all in different parts of the house (except the 510 or 522 and the 811) The other 4 boxes are on different floors and even in the garage. I think having dual tuner boxes would limit this.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

If your using the coax outs to the tVs you could put the 322s in the basement and feed the existing sat lines as tv coax lines.

Do you REALLY need to watch 6 or 7 DIFFERENT things at the same time?

With UHF remotes a single box could feed several tvs and since the 322 modulates on 2 seperate channels with one coax that could be a positive too....


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

airpolgas said:


> If you can shell out about $400, then go for the LiteOn LVW-5045. .


This link is no good


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Hmm. You've got me thinking now. Anybody know what I could probably get for the 811 and the 2700 on e-bay?
I could sell both of those, Put the 510 where the 2700 is and buy the 921. With the 921, I'll get two tuners (but no NBR) 
Does anybody know if my idea with putting the TFC dish in the back input would work? If it does, I could do that on the 921 and viola DVR for the TFC. I know the EPG wouldn't work, but I could do without that. 
The other question would be: can I use a splitter so I could get the TFC dish AND the of air anntenna together?

Maybe tomorrow I'll try plugging the TFC in the 811 and see what happens.


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## airpolgas (Aug 13, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> This link is no good


Doh! That was the product page from Cnet.com.

Here is the company page:

http://www.liteonit.com/DC/english/lvw_5045/lvw_5045.htm


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

buckyp said:


> Hmm. You've got me thinking now. Anybody know what I could probably get for the 811 and the 2700 on e-bay?


I've not seen either listed, but if you hang around, I'm sure a few 811s will come up. The 2700 will cost more to ship than it fetches.


> Does anybody know if my idea with putting the TFC dish in the back input would work? If it does, I could do that on the 921 and viola DVR for the TFC. I know the EPG wouldn't work, but I could do without that.


The chances of that working are slim to none depending on what kind of dish you have for TFC. There are numerous opportunities for problems, power issues being a big one.


> The other question would be: can I use a splitter so I could get the TFC dish AND the of air anntenna together?


OTA is tuned from the OTA input and it is unlikely that your TFC dish itself is downconverting to an OTA frequency with NTSC modulation. How does the TFC material get to your television (is there a box)? You might be able to combine the RF output of the TFC box with the OTA line (if you don't have an OTA channel that would interfere). They do make block converters that could "move" a channel to another channel that you could tune from the OTA tuner.


> Maybe tomorrow I'll try plugging the TFC in the 811 and see what happens.


I would not recommend it as it may cause damage to one or both systems that could be costly to fix. Understand that power to operate the dish's LNB comes directly from the receiver. At the very least. you should consult with a trained installer.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

buckyp said:


> Does anybody know if my idea with putting the TFC dish in the back input would work? If it does, I could do that on the 921 and viola DVR for the TFC. I know the EPG wouldn't work, but I could do without that.
> The other question would be: can I use a splitter so I could get the TFC dish AND the of air anntenna together?


Technically, so long as it outputs to channel 3, you should be able to use the 811's OTA tuner to view it in analog mode. It will not work in digital mode.


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

Yes it outputs to channel 3. I would not hook it up directly from the dish. That would not work, and could have power issues.
I was thinking using the Output of the TFC box would be the same as hooking a cable box to the back.


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## buckyp (Dec 17, 2003)

I plugged the output to the TFC dish (box) to the back input of the 811. Now I get TFC on channel 000-1. Pretty Cool. Don't have to switch inputs (plus frees up an input to the back of my TV)
Now, can anyone with a 921 confrim you can record off channel 000-1?
If so, problem solved. I'll return the 510 (save the $10 a month) sell the 811 and buy the 921. 
Two tuners, HD and a DVR for TFC. (if only it had the NBR).

BTW, I used the RCA inputs, so I didn't have to touch my OTA antenna.


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## DBSJedi (Mar 25, 2002)

My configuration is a Dishplayer 7100 and 2700 receiver w/ standalone TiVo Series1. I have my TiVo hacked and upgraded, so I can querry show info on it via TiVoWeb and then I use whatever info I come across on my search to schedule recordings on my Dishplayer, so I have a better quality recording source. My wife uses the TiVo for general everyday shows she watches where quality is no concern to her. I just use it for what TiVo does best.. find shows that peak my interests. Also it sometimes backs me up with season passes when I forget to schedule a recording on my DIshplayer. Something recorded is better than nothing recorded.


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