# HD PVR -- DISH 921 OR DIRECTV HD TIVO? Which will have more HD?



## Marty M (Sep 28, 2003)

HD PVR -- DISH 921 OR DIRECTV HD TIVO? 

I now subscribe to DISH and have the 6000. I am considering switching to DirecTV for the HD TIVO.

(1) If you had to guess and look into the future -- which provider will have the largest number of HD channels in one or two years? DirecTV or DISH? Anyone want to guess as to whether DISH lives up to its promises to double or triple its number of HD channels? Will DirecTV match that?

(2) It appears that I must decide between the 921 and the DirecTV HD TIVO before the TIVO unit becomes available -- if I plan on making use of the free Superdish offer by Jan 2004. The key question is trying to guess which provider will offer the most HD channels. Aside from that here the pros and cons as I understand it -- and I welcome any comments or observations:

(a) The DirectTV HD TIVO will be far superior as a PVR but rudimentary as a receiver (in my case I already have a stand-alone TIVO with lifetime service for SD channels);

(b) The 921 will have better receiver functions like favorites lists but in terms of programming is more like VCR with a list of programs for the next week or so;

(c) The HD TIVO will have TWO OTA tuners whereas the 921 will have only one -- a big plus for the TIVO unit;

(d) There is speculation that the company that buys Hughes and DirecTV may drop TIVO and use its own PVR.

My decision will be based on which provider appears to be better positioned for HD channels in the future -- and I'm guessing that is DISH with the new satellite and Superdish. 

In my case I already have TIVO for SD. But the fact that the TIVO HD unit will have two OTA tuners is a big plus -- you could record two HD shows in the future.


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

> (1) If you had to guess and look into the future -- which provider will have the largest number of HD channels in one or two years? DirecTV or DISH? Anyone want to guess as to whether DISH lives up to its promises to double or triple its number of HD channels? Will DirecTV match that?


DirecTV won't be able to match the capacity of the Superdish unless they deploy a Superdish-type solution of their own. DirecTV has not announced any plans to offer such a solution at this point, and Dish Network will have greater HDTV capacity until they do.

Note just because Dish has greater HD capacity now doesn't mean they will necessarily have more HD channels next year; there have to be enough new HDTV channels to make Dish's [current] superior capacity an advantage. For example, if there are only 6-7 new HDTV channels in the next year, DirecTV should be able to carry all of them.


> (2) It appears that I must decide between the 921 and the DirecTV HD TIVO before the TIVO unit becomes available -- if I plan on making use of the free Superdish offer by Jan 2004. The key question is trying to guess which provider will offer the most HD channels. Aside from that here the pros and cons as I understand it -- and I welcome any comments or observations:


The DirecTV HD Tivo is expected next spring, so it's still some time off yet. And like every new and upcoming product, it is subject to any unforseen delays.



> (b) The 921 will have better receiver functions like favorites lists but in terms of programming is more like VCR with a list of programs for the next week or so;
> 
> (c) The HD TIVO will have TWO OTA tuners whereas the 921 will have only one -- a big plus for the TIVO unit;


Don't forget that the 921 also has a Firewire interface to support a HDTV D-VHS VCR, whereas the HDTV Tivo does not (as per current specs). While the 921's Firewire connection won't be enabled at release, it _should_ be enabled well before the HD DirecTivo is available (based on what's been reported).

That said, it may be easier to upgrade or add a hard drive to the HD Tivo than it will be the 921. It's not yet known whether Dish will permit/allow hard drive upgrades on the 921 to expand HDTV recording capacity.


> (d) There is speculation that the company that buys Hughes and DirecTV may drop TIVO and use its own PVR.


A Fox-owned DirecTV may ultimately drop Tivo as the low-end PVR solution, but the Tivo isn't likely to go anywhere soon for those customers willing to pay more money (i.e. $200-300+).


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## Marty M (Sep 28, 2003)

Ken, thanks for the excellent responses to both of my questions!


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## Marty M (Sep 28, 2003)

Ken_F said:


> Don't forget that the 921 also has a Firewire interface to support a HDTV D-VHS VCR, whereas the HDTV Tivo does not (as per current specs). While the 921's Firewire connection won't be enabled at release, it _should_ be enabled well before the HD DirecTivo is available (based on what's been reported).


Why wouldn't a hard wired firewire connection be enabled at release?

Why is DISH delaying the implementation of that feature?

I agree that this is a big plus -- but if that helps tip the balance for the 921 -- how do we know that DISH will enable it within one or two months of release?

It would work OK with the JVC D-VHS? Or any future HD TV that requires firewire?


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

Marty,

Dish hasn't publicly voiced the reasons for the delay in enabling software support for Firewire. That are expected to address that question at the next technical chat.

However, according to conversations people have reported with Echostar executives, the delay has nothing to do with Hollywood. Rather, the delay has something to do with AV/C transport issues; they want to be sure the 921 works reliably with the JVC D-VHS, but they don't want it to work with unauthorized devices like a computer. The AV/C protocol allows them to only recognize certain authorized Firewire devices, and ignore others, but apparently this software implementation is also causing some delay.

Firewire on the 921 is only expected to support JVC HDTV D-VHS VCR products--at least for the forseeable future. As far as an official timetable for Firewire to be enabled in software, many are anxiously awaiting such details from Echostar, and they hope to hear them at the next technical forum.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Direct has those latin americ satellites that could be put to fa use here in the uS. This would add lots of bandwidth fast.


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## xgrep (Aug 15, 2002)

Marty M said:


> (1) If you had to guess and look into the future -- which provider will have the largest number of HD channels in one or two years?


That's easy: your cable provider. They have a big advantage in bandwidth, not to mention that they can provide your HD locals (if you can't or don't want to get them OTA), something DBS will probably never be able to do.

In the long run, I don't think the free Superdish offer is a big factor. More important is (1) programming, (2) monthly cost, (3) stability (so that if you *do* invest in HW, your investment isn't worthless in 2 years). E* has not been stellar on this last point, at least lately. They have been fairly good on (2), though this seems to be changing. And on (1), as I mentioned, cable is ultimately going to win, though perhaps the programming on DBS will meet your personal needs.

x


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## tm22721 (Nov 8, 2002)

Indeed E* can't seem to stabilize its hardware offering. The installers must be going nuts with the legacy vs. new consfigurations of switches, LNBs, and dishes

With the proliferation in satellites and hardware to support it, the simplicity of DBS is starting to fray at the seams...


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

xgrep said:


> That's easy: your cable provider. They have a big advantage in bandwidth, not to mention that they can provide your HD locals (if you can't or don't want to get them OTA), something DBS will probably never be able to do.
> 
> In the long run, I don't think the free Superdish offer is a big factor. More important is (1) programming, (2) monthly cost, (3) stability (so that if you *do* invest in HW, your investment isn't worthless in 2 years). E* has not been stellar on this last point, at least lately. They have been fairly good on (2), though this seems to be changing. And on (1), as I mentioned, cable is ultimately going to win, though perhaps the programming on DBS will meet your personal needs.
> 
> x


Cable does not have the bag sealed up yet. Internet, phone, VOD, HD VOD, other data services - it's gonna add up after a while. To be fair DBS does have to deal with a lot of local channels but spot beams can alleviate the stress.


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## MedMech (Sep 21, 2003)

I'm waiting for the stand alone tivo, I have had no problems whatsoever wtih the SD version why change. Also unless Dish's guide has been completly redone there is no way it can compare with Tivo. 

I like Dish and plan on staying with them but in case of a change I can always switch the Tivo to whatever carrier I choose.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

Well, you can almost guarentee the DirecTIVO HD will work out of the box, and that it will have most of the features people expect.

The opposite is true of the 921. If you want to pay for the privlege of Alpha testing Dish hardware, and limp along without critical features, the 921 is the way to go.


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