# R15...is it done yet?



## mvaneps (Nov 19, 2005)

I haven't been around this forum for a while but for some reason I decided to stop in tonight. It seems like just over a year now since I first searched Google for R-15 reviews and found Earls daily chronicling of the unreleased R15. I had UltimateTv for years and they were just starting to break down too much. I read Earl's reviews everyday and decided to be one of the first to order 2 brand new R15's when they were only available through the internet. They came in the mail and I disconnected my UTV. I plugged in the shiny new, sleek R15's with the fancy blue lights in the front. Transferred my list of favorite shows over to record. The only thing was that the R15 didn't seem to record all of my shows. It would just decide not to record them for whatever reason. I would get home excited about catching Survivor and it wouldn't be there. There were other problems too but I really can't seem to remember them right now. The main thing was that it just didn't record the shows I told it too. I came on the T*vo community website and whined. It seemed like lots of other people did the same thing. A few people didn't seem to have the problems and several more seemed to hold out hope that DTV was going to put out the update that would cure all the problems. I really couldn't take it. It pissed me off to no end when I came home to find my shows not recorded. So after I complained far too much I sent them back for 2 R10's. I really thought that Earl was crazy for his eternal optimism.  After looking at this message board tonight I feel like I probably did the right thing. So if you have read this far you are probably wondering what the point is to my post? Am I here to start complaining again? Nope, I got my solution and I am happy. I really just want to know, has Directv fixed the R15 yet?


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

No, not really.


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

Although I don’t have R15s anymore, I stop by every now and then.

I suppose my story is similar. My two 35 hour DirecTV TiVo receivers were running out of space with all the things that get recorded. They worked great though. Never really had to monitor or baby-sit them. I read Earl’s review, understood that DirecTV was no longer working with TiVo, heard that the R15 was the future, bla, bla, bla. So I picked up two R15s at Best Buy before the lease program went into effect.

Sold my TiVos on eBay. Mistake!!! Anyway, my wife and I used the R15s for 2 months (Feb-Apr 06) before we gave up. I’d come home from work and she would be cursing the blasted thing. I’d try to use it and curse as well. It wouldn’t auto record NHL Center Ice games from the correct channels. The trick play controls were unusable at any speed above two. We’d pretty much FF to the end of a show before the Play button would respond. Then RW back to the beginning of the show. It seemed impossible to stop and play where we wanted. There were other bugs. I missed dual buffers more than I thought I would. The buffer would clear if I watched a recorded show. The recordings would start late or end early. Couldn’t record the same show title from two different channels. And there were more annoyances and bugs. A lot of those are still talked about today. More than 6 months after I gave up. 

So I called DirecTV. The CSR understood. I ended up talking to retention and they made it right. So give kudos to them. We picked up two R10s off eBay and sold the R15s. Our TV viewing experience has been great since then.

Like you, why do I write and still visit this board? I guess I want DirecTV to realize they aren’t programmers (or better yet, they aren’t good at managing DVR projects) and they should abandon this R15 disaster. I hope that they’ll call TiVo on the phone, apologize, and start making new DirecTV TiVo receivers. 

I know it’s a fool’s hope.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

If things keep going as planned.

This discussion may take a very different path... very very soon.


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## sheridan1952 (Mar 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If things keep going as planned.
> 
> This discussion may take a very different path... very very soon.


In the TV world, that would be called a "teaser"..


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## Sharkie_Fan (Sep 26, 2006)

sheridan1952 said:


> In the TV world, that would be called a "teaser"..


In my world, we call that just plain rude... throwing out a cliffhanger like that and leaving us be... 

It's like a season finale that ends "to be continued", and you have to wait until the next season's premiere to find out what happened to the hero...

I don't even have an R15.. just browsing through posts... and now Earl you've given me ONE MORE forum to keep an eye on for breaking news.


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If things keep going as planned.
> 
> This discussion may take a very different path... very very soon.


Ah, the eternal optimist. If only we had not heard that before.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If things keep going as planned.
> 
> This discussion may take a very different path... very very soon.


You mean they are discontinuing the R15?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cbeckner80 said:


> Ah, the eternal optimist. If only we had not heard that before.


Yah... I know..
But the story has changed after each release... at least it is a different chapter each time.

I am "fishing" for an update on the update today... about the update rolling out and updating the units.... and possible updating people's impression of the R15.


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

C'mon Earl, tell us. Who shot J.R.?  

Stop teasing us!!!


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## profbobo (Jan 22, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yah... I know..
> But the story has changed after each release... at least it is a different chapter each time.
> 
> I am "fishing" for an update on the update today... about the update rolling out and updating the units.... and possible updating people's impression of the R15.


Oh Crap.

I thought you were replying to my post about DirecTV and TiVo with you're "thread taking a different turn" comment. However, you were talking about the original post and the R15 getting fixed.

O well, what you've just witnessed is a perfect example of fool's hope.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But the story has changed after each release... at least it is a different chapter each time.


That's the scary part. I really want the R15 to become a mature and reliable product. Overall I like it. I've got two, and don't want to replace them with anything different.

But, each software release does seem to bring it's own unique, and variable (not the same for each user) set of problems with it. I know they have taken a lot of time on the upcoming release, and they have done more testing on it than probably all of the previous releases combined (which is a good thing).

Keeping my fingers crossed (but not yet willing to hold my breath)...

Carl


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yah... I know..
> But the story has changed after each release... at least it is a different chapter each time.
> 
> I am "fishing" for an update on the update today... about the update rolling out and updating the units.... and possible updating people's impression of the R15.


Thanks. I do appreciate the information you give us, BUT, I too have now become VERY frustrated with the R15 after 4 months of no significant problems, I am now experiencing lost episodes, black screen and lock ups. Bad time of year for that with all the new episodes. Plus the WAF is kicking in.:nono:


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Never indulged in an R15, as I was scared off by DTV's entry into the DVR world (and Tivo's solid track record in our house). Glad I stocked up on R10s when I did.

History seems to be repeating itself over in HR20land. I can see it all now, a year from now...the latest surefire fix coming down from the sats to fix the HR20.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tstarn said:


> ...the latest surefire fix coming down from the sats to fix the HR20.


I don't think I (or even DirecTV) has ever classified any of the updates for the HR20 as "surefire" fix


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yah... I know..
> But the story has changed after each release... at least it is a different chapter each time.


Of course, they always think they know how to fix it, so you are told big improvements are coming.

Then the fix fails and we start over again.

In a month we might have identical...

"it will be fixed soon with the next update" posts..only difference 2007 v. 2006


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cbeckner80 said:


> Thanks. I do appreciate the information you give us, BUT, I too have now become VERY frustrated with the R15 after 4 months of no significant problems, I am now experiencing lost episodes, black screen and lock ups. Bad time of year for that with all the new episodes. Plus the WAF is kicking in.:nono:


I can understand and respect that....

Things have definently take much longer then they should have on the R15 side of things.

I guess the only thing I can ask... is to hang on just a bit more, to see how this next update performs for you.... If it doesn't cut it for you... then you will have all the info... as I doubt another update for the R15 will be seen in 2006


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> Of course, they always think they know how to fix it, so you are told big improvements are coming.
> 
> Then the fix fails and we start over again.
> 
> ...


I hope that is not the case with this release.
I do hope that after this release, we can get back to things like... what features would we like to see added... and can look at issues as possible being issues with an individual box, and not the series as a whole.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I hope that is not the case with this release.
> I do hope that after this release, we can get back to things like... what features would we like to see added... and can look at issues as possible being issues with an individual box, and not the series as a whole.


That would be nice


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I hope that is not the case with this release.
> I do hope that after this release, we can get back to things like... what features would we like to see added... and can look at issues as possible being issues with an individual box, and not the series as a whole.-*Today*





Earl Bonovich said:


> We are not at this point yet... but... at what point do we go from... it's a software bug... to, hmm something must be wrong with "your" system. -*7/24/06*


I agree. I hope it works. and I hope its soon.

I just see no reason for optimism on this subject...sure the word "surefire" may never have been used, but it has frequently been implied that next fix will be major or significant or that that R15 is "about to turn a corner".

i think we have turned 4 corners and are going in the same direction


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Earl, you scared me with that teaser--made me think the R15 was being discontinued.

After I just getting my third R15! We have had good luck with ours. Not totally perfect, but just a few non-repeated glitches.

I hope the update is a good thing for everyone.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

mikewolf13 said:


> You mean they are discontinuing the R15?


That's funny.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> i think we have turned 4 corners and are going in the same direction


Hopefully then when they went around the side, back side, and the other side... they where able to see the problems... and get them fixed so we can continue down the right path....

I do understand where you are comming from.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I don't think I (or even DirecTV) has ever classified any of the updates for the HR20 as "surefire" fix


You know I meant one that results in a working, functional, reliable DVR. That was just a euphemism for "a fix that works" for 99.9 percent of end users.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

So what's so special about this release that the other nine were not able to deliver? Did they hire TiVo to do it?


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

tstarn said:


> You know I meant one that results in a working, functional, reliable DVR. That was just a euphemism for "a fix that works" for 99.9 percent of end users.


I do prefer fixes that work over fixes that don't.......

wait a second....something seems amiss...

if a fix doesn't fix anything........

A-HA! that's why they are called Updates....not fixes and not upgrades...it's new and not so improved!


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hopefully then when they went around the side, back side, and the other side... they where able to see the problems... and get them fixed so we can continue down the right path....
> 
> I do understand where you are comming from.


Assuming we were on right path to start with, grasshopper.......

Earl, as a side note I do apprciate you not taking my comments/jabs personally.....or if you do take them personally- reacting with class.....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> Assuming we were on right path to start with, grasshopper.......
> 
> Earl, as a side note I do apprciate you not taking my comments/jabs personally.....or if you do take them personally- reacting with class.....


I know they are not personal....


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

walters said:


> So what's so special about this release that the other nine were not able to deliver? Did they hire TiVo to do it?


Ouch, that hurt.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

OK, I should have left off the last part, because it started as a serious question. Almost a year of incremental changes, and now we're expecting something significant any day now?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Hopefully part of what will make this next upgrade more significant than previous ones is the participation of people in these forums. DirecTV did take the time and effort to monitor these, identify a key player (Earl) and cultivate him as an effective middleman (thanks Earl). They have feedback that they did not have early on - and the results of many people's experience with the R15 in addition to their own internal testers. It takes time to analyze and develop effective code to resolve these issues - time that they now have had going into this next release, but probably did not have for earlier releases.

Part of what gives me a little hope is that they did an upgrade (10E8) that dealt with more of the foundation than the surface - trying to fix underlying issues so that the layer on top will work properly. I guess it is not surprising that change did cause some people problems, as they don't have the next layer fixed yet.

On the other hand, the part that makes me a bit skeptical is that we are seeing many of the same types of problems with the HR20 development - a platform that reportedly started with a different, in house (as opposed to NDS) foundation.

Time (and hopefully not a whole lot more of it now) will tell. Still keeping my fingers crossed.

Carl


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

carl6 said:


> Still keeping my fingers crossed.


ditto.

Like you said hopefully all the time and input they had will make this a very nice update.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

walters said:


> OK, I should have left off the last part, because it started as a serious question. Almost a year of incremental changes, and now we're expecting something significant any day now?


Well, they were pumping them out every 4 - 6 weeks. If (a big IF :sure: ) they take a couple weeks to test before they release, that doesn't give much time to actually work on it. Now, it seems they're taking the right approach. Or, maybe I'm just being optimistic.


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## mvaneps (Nov 19, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies. It seems as though the R15 still has a few kinks to work out. Long live the R10.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

qwerty said:


> Or, maybe I'm just being optimistic.


I "was" very optimistic until this last update, for the 500 models only, sent my almost perfectly working for months R-15 into a nose dive. It did improve again after a few resets but its still not 100% back to where it was.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> If things keep going as planned.
> 
> This discussion may take a very different path... very very soon.


So apparetly that worked not so much....


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

Besides a larger hard drive an a few other things, what is the difference between a HD DVR and a SD DVR?

I would imagine that it would make sense to kill off the R15 and only have one box, especially since the new birds fly next year and more people will switch over to the HD box. Sure it might hit them in the pocket book, but it seems like a price worth paying. Why have two screwed up boxes, when you can have one? 

I hope one day I can hook my dish up to my Mac, and use ITV to beam HD to my tv all the while using a Mac DVR product instead...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

saleen351 said:


> Besides a larger hard drive an a few other things, what is the difference between a HD DVR and a SD DVR?
> 
> I would imagine that it would make sense to kill off the R15 and only have one box, especially since the new birds fly next year and more people will switch over to the HD box. Sure it might hit them in the pocket book, but it seems like a price worth paying. Why have two screwed up boxes, when you can have one?
> 
> I hope one day I can hook my dish up to my Mac, and use ITV to beam HD to my tv all the while using a Mac DVR product instead...


On technical level? or on a functional level?


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> On technical level? or on a functional level?


I was a econ major, I'm talking a cost issue. I'm sure one could make a box work with both SD and HD, but if how much extra per box does this cost them? Prices will go down in the future, so it shouldn't be that bad. Think of the savings by having only one box, from customer service, R&D, suppliers, marketing, etc...


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