# Problems with Dish 1000.4 and light rain



## gor88 (May 9, 2003)

After several years with DirecTV, I switched back to Dish Network when promoting to HD. The original install was 3 weeks ago. I have already called Dish regarding video freezes and spontaneous reboots on a VIP612. Result was that tech replaced original composite cables used as component cables with real component cables. Had 1 lockup during NASCAR race last week forcing a reboot, but other than that, i only experience the now usual "one word audio dropouts" for locals and national hd channels.

My equipment:
Dish 1000.4
VIP612 with L606 software
VIP722k with L655 software and OTA module
RadioShack VU-90 OTA antenna in the attic for subchannels fed to both receivers with no amplification.

I experienced the first rain event since the install on Thursday. I noticed that FX HD lost signal in a light-medium rain. It appears that several transponders on 72.7 will lose signal in light or medium rain events. 

The signal strengths below appear to be practically the same on both tuners of both receivers. Here are signal strengths on a clear day at 4:30pm from Brandon, MS 39047 (absolute clear line of sight, nearest trees in that direction more than 0.25 miles away and they're less than 40 feet tall):

61.5

1-57 (spotbeam for my Jackson, MS HD locals)
2-44
3-70 (spotbeam)
8-44
10-46
14-50
16-34
18-46
19-41
20-36
21-57
22-36
23-44
24-48
25-38
27-38
29-48
30-38
31-39
32-37

72.7

1-28
3-34
5-25
7-33
9-31
11-33
13-31
15-34
17-32
19-34
21-31
23-33
25-34
27-33
29-35
31-36

77

1-37
4-32
5-36
8-31
9-35
12-33
13-34
16-31
17-37
20-31
21-37
24-34
25-36
28-33
29-39
32-31

Am I right in thinking either that the dish is not peaked properly or that there might be a remote chance of an LNB issue with the 1000.4?


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## gor88 (May 9, 2003)

NOTE: The 612 was replaced, along with the component cables when the tech visited.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

gor88 said:


> After several years with DirecTV, I switched back to Dish Network when promoting to HD. The original install was 3 weeks ago. I have already called Dish regarding video freezes and spontaneous reboots on a VIP612. Result was that tech replaced original composite cables used as component cables with real component cables. Had 1 lockup during NASCAR race last week forcing a reboot, but other than that, i only experience the now usual "one word audio dropouts" for locals and national hd channels.
> 
> My equipment:
> Dish 1000.4
> ...


Based on those numbers, you are 10-12 points lower than where they should be. Your dish is out of alignment or there is an obstruction. I would say alignment is the issue as all three satellites are coming in weaker than normal. Verify that the installer has the proper meter like a Super Buddy; anything less than that meter and it's difficult to tune in.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Mr-Rick said:


> Based on those numbers, you are 10-12 points lower than where they should be. Your dish is out of alignment or there is an obstruction. I would say alignment is the issue as all three satellites are coming in weaker than normal. Verify that the installer has the proper meter like a Super Buddy; anything less than that meter and it's difficult to tune in.


Just for your info. an experienced tech can tune them in without a Super Buddy. I do it on every EA install I do..


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

BNUMM said:


> Just for your info. an experienced tech can tune them in without a Super Buddy. I do it on every EA install I do..


Don't leave us hanging... what do you use?


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

I have already posted the answer. If you do a search you will find it.


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## scoobyxj (Apr 15, 2008)

Mr-Rick said:


> Don't leave us hanging... what do you use?


You can use any meter really. Just unless it's capable of powering the LNB itself you have to use the STB to power it. However there is some other birds in the area of the EA birds, and it's pretty easy to hit one of them instead of what your looking for. With out a Super Sat Buddy it can be time consuming.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

BNUMM said:


> I have already posted the answer. If you do a search you will find it.


Actually I'm not interested in doing a search.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Aluminum foil over the 72.5 & 77 LNB. Hook Meter to port 3 on LNB.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

BNUMM said:


> Aluminum foil over the 72.5 & 77 LNB. Hook Meter to port 3 on LNB.


That's how you tune in an eastern arc dish? Haha... That's worse than two guys with walkie talkies! And the meter is a canary?!


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Mr-Rick said:


> That's how you tune in an eastern arc dish? Haha... That's worse than two guys with walkie talkies! And the meter is a canary?!


Laugh all you want. It takes about 2 to 3 minutes to align the dish and you don't need an expensive Super Buddy. Don't misunderstand because a Super Buddy is a great meter but it is not necessary to align a 1000.4.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

BNUMM said:


> Laugh all you want. It takes about 2 to 3 minutes to align the dish and you don't need an expensive Super Buddy. Don't misunderstand because a Super Buddy is a great meter but it is not necessary to align a 1000.4.


Your last sentence is correct. You can align the dish but without a super buddy or similar you can't ID the satellite or measure carrier-to-noise and you can't peak all three satellites (at once) properly without it.

That is what the OP needs. He needs someone to come out and properly tune the EA dish with a Super Buddy or similar so the tech will be able to max out the signal to the box.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Mr-Rick said:


> Your last sentence is correct. You can align the dish but without a super buddy or similar you can't ID the satellite or measure carrier-to-noise and you can't peak all three satellites (at once) properly without it.
> 
> That is what the OP needs. He needs someone to come out and properly tune the EA dish with a Super Buddy or similar so the tech will be able to max out the signal to the box.


You only need to peak 2 ( 61.5 and 77 because if these 2 are peaked then the 72.5 is peaked ). If you can't do it quickly without the Super Buddy fine. I have a meter that can ID the satellites and measure the C/N ratio but I can align the dish just as quickly and easily with any other meter.


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## Mudgut (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm having a problem with losing signal during light rain also on EA. Readings on satellites range from upper 20's to low 50's. Installer said readings were OK but if I had a problem to call him. Twice he said he would be here and never showed. Now I call dish and they say they can't schedule a tech until it's raining and the signal goes out.

Does this wide range of readings sound like an aiming problem? I am located in VA.


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## Dishcomm (Jan 31, 2009)

gor88 said:


> After several years with DirecTV, I switched back to Dish Network when promoting to HD.  The original install was 3 weeks ago. I have already called Dish regarding video freezes and spontaneous reboots on a VIP612. Result was that tech replaced original composite cables used as component cables with real component cables. Had 1 lockup during NASCAR race last week forcing a reboot, but other than that, i only experience the now usual "one word audio dropouts" for locals and national hd channels.
> 
> My equipment:
> Dish 1000.4
> ...


Those signals are very low. 
Place a call to Dish customer service and read them these signals strengths...
From sat 61.5 transponders 14,29, 31 and 32...from sat 72.7...transponders 15,17, 19 and 21..and finally from sat 77 transponders 16, 20 and 21...
The examples you gave are far below the recommended minimum levels. THis means the dish is not peaked properly OR there is an obstructiopn (trees /bldgs) preventing clear reception.


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## Dishcomm (Jan 31, 2009)

BNUMM said:


> I have already posted the answer. If you do a search you will find it.


ok mr cryptic. just say which one you use. why be a smart guy.


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## Dishcomm (Jan 31, 2009)

BNUMM said:


> You only need to peak 2 ( 61.5 and 77 because if these 2 are peaked then the 72.5 is peaked ). If you can't do it quickly without the Super Buddy fine. I have a meter that can ID the satellites and measure the C/N ratio but I can align the dish just as quickly and easily with any other meter.


Look, don't start a bunch of nonsense with your i'm better than you routine.
The OP didn't ask for your resume.


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

Dishcomm said:


> Look, don't start a bunch of nonsense with your i'm better than you routine.
> The OP didn't ask for your resume.


I didn't say I was better than anyone. I only tried to point out to the do-it-yourself people that aligning the 1000.4 Dish is not as hard as Mr-Rick was trying to make it sound. If you think that trying to help people is nonsense then that is your opinion. As for your Post #17, if you had read post #9 you would have seen the answer. Also, in Post #10 Mr-Rick was making fun of that method (which I believe is being a Mr. Smart Guy).


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## Dishcomm (Jan 31, 2009)

BNUMM said:


> I didn't say I was better than anyone. I only tried to point out to the do-it-yourself people that aligning the 1000.4 Dish is not as hard as Mr-Rick was trying to make it sound. If you think that trying to help people is nonsense then that is your opinion. As for your Post #17, if you had read post #9 you would have seen the answer. Also, in Post #10 Mr-Rick was making fun of that method (which I believe is being a Mr. Smart Guy).


SPlitting hairs won't cut it. A tech stated that the SB was needed to properly peak a 1k.4. You said it isn't. You could have stopped there. But cvontinued on with the "I do it all the time" nonsense.
End of discussion.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Dishcomm said:


> SPlitting hairs won't cut it. A tech stated that the SB was needed to properly peak a 1k.4. You said it isn't. You could have stopped there. But cvontinued on with the "I do it all the time" nonsense.
> End of discussion.


Well then you shouldn't split hairs then. It was recommended that the installer have a Superbuddy. NO TECH said it, it was just a user here, thats all. There is lots of help here, and lots of good field people that post here. There is just no way to know if somebody is REALLY a tech or not, so you have to take everything here with a grain of salt and on History of what they post. 
Over the years, I had to prove to Direct, Dish, and just this year to HughesNet, that I could get Sat signals at my Parents place in Idaho. They live at the bottom of a Large hill/Small Mountain, and EVERY TECH said it couldn't be done, had to do the math, to prove it could be done. There are many, many, many, ways to peak in a Dish, one method works for one tech, another for somebody else. There is no foolproof way to get it done, and all you have to do is look at the posts about installs with bad signals, you think that the installer didn't use some device? Yet he still screwed it up.


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## Dishcomm (Jan 31, 2009)

GrumpyBear said:


> Well then you shouldn't split hairs then. It was recommended that the installer have a Superbuddy. NO TECH said it, it was just a user here, thats all. There is lots of help here, and lots of good field people that post here. There is just no way to know if somebody is REALLY a tech or not, so you have to take everything here with a grain of salt and on History of what they post.
> Over the years, I had to prove to Direct, Dish, and just this year to HughesNet, that I could get Sat signals at my Parents place in Idaho. They live at the bottom of a Large hill/Small Mountain, and EVERY TECH said it couldn't be done, had to do the math, to prove it could be done. There are many, many, many, ways to peak in a Dish, one method works for one tech, another for somebody else. There is no foolproof way to get it done, and all you have to do is look at the posts about installs with bad signals, you think that the installer didn't use some device? Yet he still screwed it up.


And all of this has to do with what?


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Dishcomm said:


> SPlitting hairs won't cut it. A tech stated that the SB was needed to properly peak a 1k.4. You said it isn't. You could have stopped there. But cvontinued on with the "I do it all the time" nonsense.
> End of discussion.


Show me in this thread where a Tech, said a SB was needed???? Only a DBS Member said it was needed. You are quick to split your own hairs, and dismiss a fellow Member trying to help another user. SuperBuddy or some other signal device was used originally and didn't do much good did it. So instead of bashing on a Fellow Member for using a technique other than a SB, just offer what you do, instead, and let the OP decide. Lots of Dish endusers are much better at doing dish Tweaking then some so called "Pro" Installers. Nobody knows anybody here, no proof anybody here is really a installer or just somebody who reads, and there are plenty of ways to get the same job done.

End of Discussion.


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## Mr-Rick (Dec 1, 2004)

GrumpyBear said:


> Show me in this thread where a Tech, said a SB was needed???? Only a DBS Member said it was needed. You are quick to split your own hairs, and dismiss a fellow Member trying to help another user. SuperBuddy or some other signal device was used originally and didn't do much good did it. So instead of bashing on a Fellow Member for using a technique other than a SB, just offer what you do, instead, and let the OP decide. Lots of Dish endusers are much better at doing dish Tweaking then some so called "Pro" Installers. Nobody knows anybody here, no proof anybody here is really a installer or just somebody who reads, and there are plenty of ways to get the same job done.
> 
> End of Discussion.


Time to jump in. DISHCOMM is right on this one. I am a retailer and have been one since 1997. I do many installs myself which would make me a tech as well. If you look to the left under my user-id it says Retailer. While I did inform the OP to have someone come out with a Super Buddy to really tune the dish in, I was dismissed that a Super Buddy is not necessary. Well, I'm willing to bet that the original tech at that install didn't have one OR if he DID, he didn't tighten the bolts on the dish and it came out of alignment.

So again and with clarification, it is in my professional opinion that the use of a Super Buddy (or similar high-end meter) is HIGHLY suggested in properly tuning in the eastern arc dish.


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## GrumpyBear (Feb 1, 2006)

Mr-Rick said:


> Time to jump in. DISHCOMM is right on this one. I am a retailer and have been one since 1997. I do many installs myself which would make me a tech as well. If you look to the left under my user-id it says Retailer. While I did inform the OP to have someone come out with a Super Buddy to really tune the dish in, I was dismissed that a Super Buddy is not necessary. Well, I'm willing to bet that the original tech at that install didn't have one OR if he DID, he didn't tighten the bolts on the dish and it came out of alignment.
> 
> So again and with clarification, it is in my professional opinion that the use of a Super Buddy (or similar high-end meter) is HIGHLY suggested in properly tuning in the eastern arc dish.


HIGHLY Suggested, and a Very GOOD one. Point is, we are MEMBERS here, I could say I am a Retailer since '97 too(Granted I do believe you are) and I am not. Its not the point, make suggestions, give Helpul Tips, and let the OP's make up there minds. There is NO one Correct way to do anything, there are several ways. Some endusers prefer to use the Pro, some are DIY's and giving tips to DIY'ers shouldn't be trashed, nor should tips from the Pro's. Sat Buddy is a good one, not the only one, and considering how many finders there are out there, they could be a different, more cost effective Finder for a DIY'er.


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## Dishcomm (Jan 31, 2009)

GrumpyBear said:


> HIGHLY Suggested, and a Very GOOD one. Point is, we are MEMBERS here, I could say I am a Retailer since '97 too(Granted I do believe you are) and I am not. Its not the point, make suggestions, give Helpul Tips, and let the OP's make up there minds. There is NO one Correct way to do anything, there are several ways. Some endusers prefer to use the Pro, some are DIY's and giving tips to DIY'ers shouldn't be trashed, nor should tips from the Pro's. Sat Buddy is a good one, not the only one, and considering how many finders there are out there, they could be a different, more cost effective Finder for a DIY'er.


Can we go now?:nono:


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## BNUMM (Dec 24, 2006)

mr-rick said:


> time to jump in. Dishcomm is right on this one. I am a retailer and have been one since 1997. I do many installs myself which would make me a tech as well. If you look to the left under my user-id it says retailer. While i did inform the op to have someone come out with a super buddy to really tune the dish in, i was dismissed that a super buddy is not necessary. Well, i'm willing to bet that the original tech at that install didn't have one or if he did, he didn't tighten the bolts on the dish and it came out of alignment.
> 
> So again and with clarification, it is in my professional opinion that the use of a super buddy (or similar high-end meter) is highly suggested in properly tuning in the eastern arc dish.


you are the one that asked for me to repost (because you did not want to do a search) my method and then you made fun of my method so i simply stated that i have done it frequently.


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## gor88 (May 9, 2003)

Just to let everyone know, I had Dish come back out and realign the dish. TPs on 72.7 went up roughly 8-12 points and 10-14 for 77. The 61.5 numbers barely moved upward 1-2 points. However, those were higher so all three show readings from 39-57 on non-spots. I now only lose the signal in thick, heavy rain. The main thing was getting 72.7 and 77 better, since they were the worst offenders.

Also, the side braces that attach to the mounting pole were NOT installed originally. I figure those are only needed to keep the dish from blowing away in severe winds.

Thanks for your help.


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## tedb3rd (Feb 2, 2006)

My neighbor just got Dish and they installed a 1000.4/Eastern Arc for her. First rain came and channels started dropping. I went out and checked the level/plum of the pole and also the settings (azimuth, elivation, skew) and discovered that the skew was off by 10 degrees. Set it to what it should have been and the 61.5 & 77 sats signal strengths increased by about 30 points.

Your 61.5 signal strengths are about what hers are (after the correction) but for the others your strength is lower. Can't tell without actually looking but it seems that you either have an obstruction and/or the dish was peaked for 61.5. Anyways... It seems like you should be getting higher signal on 72 & 77. I'm assuming you got these numbers in good weather conditions?

No, you don't need an expensive meter. You've got yours close enough so you can use the built in signal strength on the receiver. Use a cell phone or yell to peak the dish.


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