# Emergency Brodcasts and DVR's



## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Here's a question for you to ponder:
With so many households now enjoying the benefits of watching pre-recorded television via a DVR, should there be a means by which providers can break in and alert us to potentially life-threatening emergency situations?

As a subscriber, I would vote to allow such a service in cases where the lives of myself or my community may be at risk.

What say you?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

friggen siren is a block from my house.. I always know :eek2:


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## jclewter79 (Jan 8, 2008)

I actually think this could be a good idea you have come up with. I was actally cathing up on some dvr shows the other night when the storms that ravaged southen Oklahoma came though. I am a good ways from lone grove but, a cell did come though here that jaked the wind up to about 80 mph for a minute without any tornados and it did make me switch to the local channels to see what was going on. This remindes me of when I was a kid my dad recorded the movie "Mary Poppins" for my brother and I off of the local NBC channel. The night that he happened to record it on the old VHS there were some storms. The local news broke into the show once to tell about what was happening. When we would watch the tape my brother and I would look outside to see where the storm was


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

houskamp said:


> friggen siren is a block from my house.. I always know :eek2:


That really doesn't apply to everyone, does it?
Does the siren sound when terrorists have set off a dirty bomb in a nearby city, or when a local chemical plant leak has a toxic cloud leak headed your way?

I'm not just talking about tornadoes here.
Some nights, all we watch for hours is DVR programming.
The emergency broadcast system is rendered useless.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

You can purchase emergency radios with SAME decoders so that you get the weather reports. That way, you get alerted about emergency situations.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Yes, I know there are emergency radios. 

That's not the question.
The question is, should there be a means by which television service providers can interrupt DVR playback to alert subscribers to emergency situations?
It seems to me that it's one of those those things that no one really thinks about until something happens to prove its worthiness.
Then everyone wonders why it wasn't already in place.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

deltafowler said:


> That really doesn't apply to everyone, does it?
> Does the siren sound when terrorists have set off a dirty bomb in a nearby city, or when a local chemical plant leak has a toxic cloud leak headed your way?
> 
> I'm not just talking about tornadoes here.
> ...


 actualy they will go off for those reasons.. they are actualy "civil defense sirens"...
But anyways It could be an idea but I'm not sure how bad the logistics would be.. A lot of different areas and different size areas..


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Absolutely. The government should mandate devices that allow them to lock your refrigerator and send an electrical charge through the toilet to alert you that you should run for your lives. Maybe they should be able to flash all the lights in your house and tune all your radios - even the ones in the cars in your driveway that are turned off - to the Official Channel. Every fireplace should be equipped with fire extyinguishers so that if you're not eating, cooking, listening to radio or watching TV, they can extinguish the fire to get your attention. Wait! They should install electrodes in your brain so that they can wake you and alert you no matter WHAT state you're in!

Or maybe you should just use common sense and have one of those radios handy if you live in a danger area.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

The emergency radio makes the most sense. Your TV isn't always on -- I assume! So any effort through the DVR is quickly useless.

I've had one for years but bypassed the alarm because of too frequent alarms in the bedroom. I recently updated to one that has battery backup and SAME selection. I think it was $26 or so.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

These days, anywhere in the world is "the danger area".
We don't all have civil defense sirens in our neighborhoods and towns.

All we have is a volunteer FD, and that siren blows every time someone's leaf burning gets out of hand or one of the old people at the home tries to sneak a cigarette.

We have an emergency broadcast system already in place, but it can be rendered ineffective by pre-recorded programming.
The ridiculous statements above about refrigerators and toilets are a lame attempt at grandstanding, maybe even humor(?), but there is a very serious side to this discussion.

It's a dangerous world, and there are more than just meteorological threats to be concerned about.

No one's saying that we should give the government anymore access to our lives than they already enjoy. 
Hey, if NH wants to live free or die, then I say good riddance anyway.
See, I can make lame jokes too. :lol:


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

To me the biggest trick is how to set what is an alert.. I have yet to see an app, even for computers, that works right.. 
I live within a couple miles of a major river... However floods are not a concern at my house (think last flood here was in the time of noah  ) I had to turn off the alerts on my weather program due to constant popups of flood warnings..


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Don't get me wrong - I agree that there should be an alert system. But trying to think of every possible way to protect someone from their own ignorance is, IMO, the wrong way to go about it.

If you live in a danger area, you should have the common sense to have an emergency radio. I live in New England. The biggest risk we have here are snow and ice storms, though I've lived through two hurricanes that made it this far north.

If I lived where my Mom lives in Indiana, you're damn right I'd have one of those radios to hear any alerts.

The point is that people should have COMMON SENSE and not always depend on someone else to protect them in every situation.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

I don't think the point is getting through.
I'm not just talking about natural disasters here, so planet Earth is the "danger area".
The world is becoming a nastier and meaner place to live.
Sooner or later, bio or nuclear technologies are going to fall into the hands of someone who wants to do harm on a large scale.
Being aware of what has happened, and whether you are downwind (or downstream) or safe for now could save thousands.

And yes, I agree that you can't have a system that alerts everyone all of the time. But to ignore the opportunity to reach thousands or even millions who are already sitting right in front of the largest mass-communication system on the planet could prove to be quite boneheaded, especially in the infinite wisdom of hindsight.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Despite mans best (worst?) efforts, sometimes mother nature finds a way to do a little spring cleaning on the ole gene pool. !Devil_lol


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Lots of folks have the caller ID feature enabled, which will popup a message on the screen identifying an incoming phone call on their receiver (with Dish anyway). So for those folks, I can't imagine having a similar popup for Emergency Broadcasts would be a problem.

There should be a way to disable it as long as you click-through some sort of disclaimer that says you are knowingly disabling the Emergency popups... but I would like to see the feature myself.


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

deltafowler said:


> Yes, I know there are emergency radios.
> 
> That's not the question.
> The question is, should there be a means by which television service providers can interrupt DVR playback to alert subscribers to emergency situations?
> ...


I'm sorry but recorded content must remain sacred


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> Lots of folks have the caller ID feature enabled, which will popup a message on the screen identifying an incoming phone call on their receiver (with Dish anyway). So for those folks, I can't imagine having a similar popup for Emergency Broadcasts would be a problem.
> 
> There should be a way to disable it as long as you click-through some sort of disclaimer that says you are knowingly disabling the Emergency popups... but I would like to see the feature myself.


That's an excellent idea on how to tie it into existing equipment.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

According one article I found, DVR's are now (actually, October 2008) present in one out of every four households in the US.
In those households, the trends for watching time-shifted programming or on-demand programming is growing from about 6% now to 16% by the end of 2012.

I actually think this estimate is low. 
As DVR saturation grows, more DVR savvy users will begin to watch more and more recorded content, rather than live TV.
But even at 16%, that's a heck of a lot of people to potentially leave clueless by not reaching them with the EBS broadcasts.


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

I am not sure why the emergency alert radio would not suffice. They may say weather radios but they are actually for all emergencies. I get child abduction alarms all the time.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

So, question: How many people have checked outside due to weather warning on a recording? :lol:


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Personally, I would think folks would love this IF broadcasters would do it as an additional signal instead of an overlay.

In my mind, what I envision is a day when the scroll isn't actually part of the video on the broadcast but rather separate digital information streamed... so that your DVR recording could be "pristine" and scroll/alert-free but your receiver would display the crawl (live or during playback) at the time when the emergency/weather/whatever was happening.


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

Actually I think Cable does have EBS alerts. If you are watching live or DVD and a warning comes through it changes the channel to an emergency alert channel. Problem is if it occurs while you are away during a recording, it doesn't change the channel back every time so you get home and missed your show(s)


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

jacksonm30354 said:


> I am not sure why the emergency alert radio would not suffice. They may say weather radios but they are actually for all emergencies. I get child abduction alarms all the time.


Because many people simply don't have one.
But most do have a television, and I suspect that most will have a DVR in the next 5 years.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

houskamp said:


> So, question: How many people have checked outside due to weather warning on a recording? :lol:


Probably more than would care to admit.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

jacksonm30354 said:


> Actually I think Cable does have EBS alerts. If you are watching live or DVD and a warning comes through it changes the channel to an emergency alert channel. Problem is if it occurs while you are away during a recording, it doesn't change the channel back every time so you get home and missed your show(s)


See the post above yours.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

deltafowler said:


> Because many people simply don't have one.
> But most do have a television, and I suspect that most will have a DVR in the next 5 years.


I'm sorry but this argument is about as bad as the pros and cons of delaying the digital switch.

EVERYBODY might have a TV but they don't come on by themselves no matter what the DVR does. My TVs are not on most of the night.

So an alarm radio is waiting 24 x 7 to let you know there may be a problem in your area.

If you can afford a TV and DVR you can certainly afford a $30 weather radio.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

dennisj00 said:


> I'm sorry but this argument is about as bad as the pros and cons of delaying the digital switch.
> 
> EVERYBODY might have a TV but they don't come on by themselves no matter what the DVR does. My TVs are not on most of the night.
> 
> ...


Using that logic, though, then why have any alerts on TV at all? Force everyone to also own a special radio and never broadcast any emergency info on TV at all. Right?

Rather... I think IF TV is going to be used as a means to communicate, and broadcast alerts, then the system should be updated and improved to take into account the different ways we use our TVs today so that we don't miss the important info they are broadcasting if we so choose.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

TV and Radio stations are mandated by the FCC to broadcast emergency information. However, that doesn't mean that you'll receive it when your TV or radio is off.

I'm just saying that there's a perfectly good, economical receiver available that will warn you 24x7 -- something your TV or AM/FM radio can't do if they're off.

Why complicate the DVR functionality?


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> Why complicate the DVR functionality?


Because the potential exists to save lives.

And "complicate DVR functionality."?
Are you serious? ...and you have a DirecTV DVR.
That's like adding oars to a bicycle with square wheels. Can it really be made worse? :lol:


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Normally I too am against over-complicating and combining features (like the commercial parody about the cellphone with a built-in pepper grinder)... but in this case I think it would make sense and would fit with built-in features already there.

I can make a much stronger case for a DVR displaying a scroll or popup Emergency Alert than I can caller ID. Given that caller ID is useless unless you have a phone to talk to people... why is that feature on our DVRs?

But I know a lot of folks like it... and a similar Emergency alert display feature would actually be more value if it helped call your attention to an emergency situation while you were otherwise engaged watching a movie.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

dennisj00 said:


> My TVs are not on most of the night.
> So an alarm radio is waiting 24 x 7 to let you know there may be a problem in your area.


No, it will let YOU know.
I don't see how a radio at your house is going to help me.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

I agree that the alarm radios are probably the best idea here. No reason to overly complicate things when there is an existing solution already.

Now, if they could couple this automatic DVR system with something that would keep me from having my show interrupted when I watch it at a later time, when the weather or other issue has passed, I might be swayed as that is a huge benfit IMO. In fact, there is absolutely no reason that once the DTV switch finally happens, that they cannot just scroll something on teh bottom saying please tune to channel x.1 for emergency info and run it there. THat way, ther eis no reason to interrrupt a show at all.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

On the one hand you have emergency radios already manufactured with functionality who's express purpose is to warn people of emergencies.

On the other hand you have innumerable manufacturers of TVs, DVR, DVDs, BR, etc.

Not only would you have to inject the technology into every television, but into every source of programming from rabbit-ears to someone's PC playing YouTube videos.

And NONE of that works for the person sleeping or reading a book - while a radio with an alarm *does*.


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## compac (Oct 6, 2006)

Who buys these NOAA Wx radios... not the avg user. Bet even in this l33t group its only a small % but all have a TV, cell or FM radio unless you're really off the grid. The current stand alone warning radios can even be set for your local county or selected areas so you don't get overly alerted to a storm outside your chosen areas.

So, if you are serious about warning all not just those prepared for the alert what ever it is: Wx, missing child, natural disaster, local Bio / chem hazard (like a train wreck or worst).

The system needs to be simple. Too many people still can't even figure how to set the time on VCRs or remember to put a new battery in a fire/smoke alarm.

We, read Gov't, have mandated Closed Captioning, parental limits and similar functions in newer TV's why not a stand-by function that upon activation (via gov't and local authorities) that turns on the audio in *TV, Radio, DVR w/ a voice warning. * Don't care if it wakes the kids, that's the point.

This was posted earlier to tune to your emergency service station. Even my old VCR and newer alarm clock gets a time signature, I think over air via PBS somehow :scratchin Can't similar technology be used to get the info out.

For example, An older car radio I had while in Europe had an alert function when a traffic warning went out... only prob was the mmsg came out in German :lol:


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Again, we're straying from the initial point of the discussion.
We're not talking about what people who want to be warned should do or shouldn't do.
We're merely saying that the system that's already in place needs to be looked at in terms of effectiveness. If the EBS is still going to be utilized on broadcast television, then someone needs to seriously take a look at how many viewers will not receive the message, because they're watching time-shifted programming.

That's all.
Discussions about whether or not weather radios do a better job are not germane to this subject.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

My local Comcast 'broadcasts' EBS alerts in real time which are superimposed at the system level over any pre-recorded content and VOD, as well as being carried over all "live' cable channels.

No one escapes!


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Nick said:


> My local Comcast 'broadcasts' EBS alerts in real time which are superimposed at the system level over any pre-recorded content and VOD, as well as being carried over all "live' cable channels.


That's what we're talking about.
Thanks for posting that information!


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want my TV to turn on wake me during severe weather. I have been through hurricanes and some of them last forever(aka marathons). Next thing you know is that the Emergency broadcast will prempt PS3,Xbox,Wii, and Blu-Ray... As long as their is a way to opt in and opt out, I could be ok with it.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

kevinwmsn said:


> I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want my TV to turn on wake me during severe weather.


We're not talking about the TV turning on or walking over and shaking you out of bed.
We're merely saying that IF THE TV IS ON, then it should be able to communicate important public safety information to you.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

I think the disconnect we're having with each other is that your position is "if the TV is on, people should be warned" - if I'm interpreting you correct.

My "platform" is more like "if they're not watching live TV, how do you warn them?".

In other words, we see the same situation - people not tuned to one of the systems we have in place - but we're approaching it from different points of view.

I don't mean to sound snide - if this does I'm sorry - but to put things another way, why does your (justifiable) concern for the person watching a tape/DVD/whatever not extend to the person reading a book?

I just think that if you're going to address the problem of people not tuned into the EBS signal, think about *all* of them, not just a subset. And THAT is where my thoughts about the radios came from - I have a couple of racing scanners that have a hot button for the frequencies.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I keep going back to something I said earlier...

We have the EBS system. We also have weather radios. IF weather radios are meant to replace the EBS system, then why is there not a government coupon program to provide people with a free weather radio? Instead of converter boxes for digital TV?

Think about it.

So... as long as we have the EBS, why not add features to improve its reach. Again, I think people should be able to shut the "interrupt" feature off if they want, but I think it should be a feature.

As someone else noted... CC is a mandated function, even though the majority of viewers do not need CC. I'd argue everyone can benefit from a better EBS, so there should be some priority there.

Otherwise, if EBS is going to be circumvented by DVRs and people increasingly watching less live TV... then the EBS should be scrapped and people should be encouraged to buy weather radios and go from there. Having an antiquated EBS system that eventually most people will never see because of DVR use seems pointless to me.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Exactly!
Either update the existing system to keep pace with changing viewing habits or scrap it for something better.

So, while the argument for everyone having a radio is valid, it isn't relevant to what we're talking about doing here.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I dunno, I have windows in my house, I can see what's going on outside and can decide for myself if it is bad enough to look at my locals.... I don't need something to hold my hand when the weather gets bad and screw up recordings.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

In theory the EBS might also warn you of other things besides an oncoming storm. Might warn you of a missing child, of an escaped convict loose in your area (if you see him out your window it is probably too late) or a number of other things that might not be out-your-window obvious.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

The way they abuse the Amber and Silver alerts around here, runing completely non- geographically focused vague alerts every time someone is missing (on a side note, you have to love the message signs on teh road telling you to call anumber for more info at the same time they are trying to ban car cell phone use), I shudder to think what would happen if they had the ability to override our TV to run them.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

djlong said:


> I think the disconnect we're having with each other is that your position is "if the TV is on, people should be warned" - if I'm interpreting you correct.
> 
> My "platform" is more like "if they're not watching live TV, how do you warn them?".


Yes, that's the disconnect.
My point is to simply address the issue of the current EBS being rendered ineffective due to increased DVR usage.

Overhauling the entire system can be taken up elsewhere.


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## deltafowler (Aug 28, 2007)

Lee L said:


> The way they abuse the Amber and Silver alerts around here,


I guess it's not important until it's someone you know or care about.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

deltafowler said:


> I guess it's not important until it's someone you know or care about.


Since only a tiny fraction of abduction cases are by strangers, the cops almost always have a really good idea on who to look for already and the case can be solved with good police work. Recently we have had several amber alerts here that have ended up being total hoaxes perpetrated by the family or oops, the kid was just around the corner and we lost track. All these alerts risk the crying wolf syndrome and people will not get the benefits of the alerts when they are actually needed.

When someone decides to just walk away from their own house 90 minutes away from me, what good does it do to broadcast such vivid details as a "45 year old white male"? The Silver alert was supposed to be for elderly or other people with cognitive issues that do not know what they are doing and they instead have used it for several random people. I consider that as an abuse of a system and it makes people ignore them.

When you are driving and they announce an amber alert and the highway signs just say call 511 for more info all over a metro area of a million plus with highway connections to most of the eastern seaboard within 6-8 hours, it is a total waste, when the sign can just as easily tell you what highway they were on and the type and color of the car. That would actually be useful info that can help people be found. At the same time that there are legislators in this state trying to ban cell phones in cars, the state is telling you to pick up the phone and get details from an automated system that could be seen in 20 seconds off the message board.

Now, recently, I have read about the ability of cell phone companies to potentially send text message alerts to all cell phone users from certain towers. This could be good because it is targeted to those who need it and can hopefully provide details or instructions.

I think much of this argument really comes down to how a good thing can be made bad with too much of it. People have the ability to avail themselves of generalized information right now. Why should we force it down their throughts in a random unorganized way?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Ok, here's a small list of why I think it wouldn't work with current or near term hardware.

As was suggested, a popup of some sort for the said alert.

That alert needs to get fed to the box somehow.

It *can't* be via the phone connection and/or ethernet (not everybody has one or both of them connected). It will have to only come from a sat line.

So where does that leave you? Your dual tuner DVR is now a single tuner TV as one tuner will *always* have to be looking at a local channel.

Why a local channel? Think about it for a minute. That alert data can't come down on TNT or any other national channel. Said channel would be nothing but alerts 24/7/365.25.

But what about those that live out in the sticks? Those that don't get locals via the sat? What do you do for them? Getting an alert about an earthquake off a Los Angles sation doesn't do farmer Bob much good in Cornhusk, IA.

I could continue.

Bottom line, there are other systems in place already, people just need to use them.


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