# Earl - Time to spill the beans!



## baimo (Sep 8, 2006)

Its the last week in November - Is OTA coming Tuesday night or Wednesday for the west coast? . My money is on Thursday 5:17 AM EST for East Coast. I am soo excited. Dont let me down bro.


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## skierbri10 (Sep 18, 2006)

baimo said:


> Its the last week in November - Is OTA coming Tuesday night or Wednesday for the west coast? . My money is on Thursday 5:17 AM EST for East Coast. I am soo excited. Dont let me down bro.


I guarantee one thing....Earl wont say..... :lol:


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

FWIW, I got an AT9 installed Saturday morning and I asked the installer if he has heard any rumors about OTA and he said he's hearing MARCH. I hope he's just out of the loop.


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## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

OK, let's look at this logically.

DirecTV has a piece of .... hardware that simply does not work properly. The CSRs know it, the honchos know it, the programmers know it.

Is the best thing to do at this moment to introduce an entirely new set of features that will no doubt bring an entirely new set of bugs?

But then again, given DirecTV's record....that might not be surprising.:lol:

With ALL due respect to Earl and the folks at DirecTV.....December 1? ........... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

mnassour said:


> OK, let's look at this logically.
> 
> DirecTV has a piece of .... hardware that simply does not work properly. The CSRs know it, the honchos know it, the programmers know it.
> 
> ...


While I am skeptical about the success with which OTA will be launched.....

It would be somewhat illogical to think that lo these many months that D* hasn't been testing OTA in conjunction with each new code release.

Surely they are not waiting til everything else works before they start looking at OTA.

So it's not like they will flip the toggle (Earl's word),and just hope it all works right.

Of course, logic and reason have not been synonymous with D*Plus DVRs....so who knows.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

My birthday is coming up real soon. It'd be nice to get OTA before or on it. Please give me a big present D*


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## pgiralt (Oct 12, 2006)

baimo said:


> Its the last week in November - Is OTA coming Tuesday night or Wednesday for the west coast? . My money is on Thursday 5:17 AM EST for East Coast. I am soo excited. Dont let me down bro.


My guess is OTA tonight for the West Coast


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## Dave_S (Jan 7, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> My birthday is coming up real soon. It'd be nice to get OTA before or on it. Please give me a big present D*


Be careful of what you ask for....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

You are right... I won't tell... as there is nothing to tell at this point.

I know they are "close"... very close... You won't see ATSC tonight... but I still can't rule it out before December 1st.


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## gb33 (Sep 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I know they are "close"... very close... You won't see ATSC tonight... but I still can't rule it out before December 1st.


What a tease. You naughty boy you.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I try


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## Carbon (Sep 22, 2006)

Quick question I am sure it was covered somewhere but here goes will the HR20 only pick-up the HD OTA? Well now that I think about it probably only the digital channels.


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## psubill78 (Nov 22, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You are right... I won't tell... as there is nothing to tell at this point.
> 
> I know they are "close"... very close... You won't see ATSC tonight... but I still can't rule it out before December 1st.


I can wait until tomorrow night. I still need to run my OTA cable to my master bedroom for the 2nd HR20  hahahah


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Little Bird says national OTA rollout Thurday morning after early - AM update....I'll believe it when I see it.


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## psubill78 (Nov 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Little Bird says national OTA rollout Thurday morning after early - AM update....I'll believe it when I see it.


Let the rumors begin


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Little Bird says national OTA rollout Thurday morning after early - AM update....I'll believe it when I see it.


Yah... again.. as of this morning, no decision has been made.


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## g4jedi (Aug 21, 2006)

I would rather see a software update provide STABILITY than OTA!!!


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

I don't even care at this point. Without Closed Captioning working correctly, OTA is meaningless to me.


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## spivey (Nov 21, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> I would rather see a software update provide STABILITY than OTA!!!


Well then you must have the Mpeg4 HD Locals. Some of us do not, that is why we want OTA turned on.

And I must say if the March rumor is true I think I'll be contacting D* to discuss termination. They can have the HR20 back; it really will not upset me.


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## cottonchopper (Oct 4, 2006)

spivey said:


> And I must say if the March rumor is true I think I'll be contacting D* to discuss termination. They can have the HR20 back; it really will not upset me.


I don't think I would go as far as terminating my contract if the OTA wasn't available until March, but I would definitely call D* and see about some sort of deal. I think I am one of the few people here that bought the unit expecting it to have OTA when I bought it (at least that is what the CSR told me when I purchased it). After I realized that it didn't I called them back up and they finally worked out something to make me happy to wait until December.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

spivey said:


> Well then you must have the Mpeg4 HD Locals. Some of us do not, that is why we want OTA turned on.
> 
> And I must say if the March rumor is true I think I'll be contacting D* to discuss termination. They can have the HR20 back; it really will not upset me.


March rumor... ? For what, OTA? Where the heck are you seeing that?

Not a chance is that true.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> March rumor... ? For what, OTA? Where the heck are you seeing that?
> 
> Not a chance is that true.


:lol:


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> I would rather see a software update provide STABILITY than OTA!!!


Many people do not have all their stations via MPEG4 yet, myself included. I assume you do? OTA is pretty important to those of us who don't and even more important to those who have zero MPEG4 coverage. Heck, we've only had ours for less than a week.

In fact I was just affected by this on Thanksgiving day. I had to record the Cowboys game in SD on an R15 because I couldn't get it in a record-able form in HD. No OTA and no MPEG4 for FOX in my DMA. Never mind the fact I didn't get the AT9 until Saturday, it wouldn't have mattered because I wouldn't have had FOX in HD anyway.

LIN TV = :new_cussi


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> March rumor... ? For what, OTA? Where the heck are you seeing that?
> 
> Not a chance is that true.


That came from me Earl. That's what my installer said on Saturday about OTA when he was putting up the AT9. I said I hoped he was just out of the loop.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Mike Huss said:


> That came from me Earl. That's what my installer said on Saturday about OTA when he was putting up the AT9. I said I hoped he was just out of the loop.


I bet he was talking about HD LiLs and not OTA.


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## psubill78 (Nov 22, 2006)

You have to look at it this way, if D* didn't have all the issues (which, I like to rub in I've had none with my HR20 box :hurah: ) you wouldn't be able to call in a get free stuff.. 

If everything worked perfectly out of the box, you'd have no reason to complain, and no reason to get stuff for free!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Mike Huss said:


> That came from me Earl. That's what my installer said on Saturday about OTA when he was putting up the AT9. I said I hoped he was just out of the loop.


Ahh... okay...
Then yes... I would say he is VERY out of the loop


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> I bet he was talking about HD LiLs and not OTA.


HD Lil = MPEG4 HD locals, correct? If so, ours got turned on a week ago so that most certainly was not it. That's why he was there installing the AT9.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Mike Huss said:


> HD Lil = MPEG4 HD locals, correct?


Yes


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Then he's just really out of the loop.


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## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> Then he's just really out of the loop.





Earl Bonovich said:


> Ahh... okay...
> Then yes... I would say he is VERY out of the loop


I'm just glad he was out of the loop on OTA stuff and not install stuff. I was nervous from all the horror stories around here, but he got it tuned in really well, mid 90's on a cloudy day, and he grounded it. So I was happy with the install at least.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> I would rather see a software update provide STABILITY than OTA!!!


Mine has been STABLE ever since the day I bought it the first week of October. If they waited till every single software bug that affected a small group of people was fixed we'd all be waiting around forever for OTA.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

g4jedi said:


> I would rather see a software update provide STABILITY than OTA!!!


Yes, too many of the exact same bugs release after release. Their top priority needs to be fixing the base code. I would love OTA, but it needs to work as a DVR first.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

btmoore said:


> Yes, too many of the exact same bugs release after release. Their top priority needs to be fixing the base code. I would love OTA, but it needs to work as a DVR first.


Mine has worked fine software release after software release. It does work as DVR right now.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

btmoore said:


> Yes, too many of the exact same bugs release after release.





glennb said:


> Mine has been STABLE ever since the day I bought it the first week of October. If they waited till every single software bug that affected a small group of people was fixed we'd all be waiting around forever for OTA. Mine has worked fine software release after software release. It does work as DVR right now.


Apparently not everyone has had the same negative experiences as the first poster. Neither has my group of 14 users. We all share the second (positive) poster's experience. Not one lockup, not one autocancel, not one bad recording, not one lockup - no reboots ever done, not one.

The more I read these "opposite end of the candle" posts regarding the exact same firmware update and same HR20 boxes, the more I'm convinced that 90% of the remaining small number of issues are either environmental variables (cabling, connectors, switches, dish pointing, HDMI incompatibility), or else defective hardware components on a very few boxes (remotes, hard drives).

After diagnosing PCs for over 20 years, I've learned you have to narrow the problems down to what is *different* between 2 locations with differening results, *not* what is the same. I'd bet that if every user having a problem carefully *thoroughly* checked all their cables, connections, and multiswitches (*not just visually*), as well as other environmental variables (HDMI/DVI switches for example), they may uncover hidden problems there, instead of the HR20. Loose connectors are a real problem and yet not uncommon. Thereafter, after a full reboot, if the problems still persist, I'd just ask for a new HR20 altogether. My guess is that the remaining HR20 problem locations would end up being very few indeed.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

glennb said:


> Mine has been STABLE ever since the day I bought it the first week of October. If they waited till every single software bug that affected a small group of people was fixed we'd all be waiting around forever for OTA.


"every single bug"? "Small group of people?" Um, do you *want* to start a flame war, have your credit rating drop to 520, and someone elses bills paid for by your credit cards? 

I'm glad yours has been "STABLE", but stop YELLING it to us.  And I suspect you don't mean to make it sound like you're dismissing missed recordings, unwatchable recordings, and lockups as real defects. Cuz anyone who owns HDTV and HR10 or HR20 knows its not "just" TV. Its HDTV! :lol:

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently not everyone has had the same negative experiences as the first poster. Neither has my group of 14 users. We all share the second (positive) poster's experience. Not one lockup, not one autocancel, not one bad recording, not one lockup - no reboots ever done, not one.
> 
> The more I read these "opposite end of the candle" posts regarding the exact same firmware update and same HR20 boxes, the more I'm convinced that 90% of the remaining small number of issues are either environmental variables (cabling, connectors, switches, dish pointing, HDMI incompatibility), or else defective hardware components on a very few boxes (remotes, hard drives).
> 
> After diagnosing PCs for over 20 years, I've learned you have to narrow the problems down to what is *different* between 2 locations with differening results, *not* what is the same. I'd bet that if every user having a problem carefully *thoroughly* checked all their cables, connections, and multiswitches (*not just visually*), as well as other environmental variables (HDMI/DVI switches for example), they may uncover hidden problems there, instead of the HR20. Loose connectors are a real problem and yet not uncommon. Thereafter, after a full reboot, if the problems still persist, I'd just ask for a new HR20 altogether. My guess is that the remaining HR20 problem locations would end up being very few indeed.


Another person looking to "flame on". 

Hdtvfan0001, in my long time of debugging programs, hardware, software, and taking stuff apart to see how they work, (mom tells me I took my playpen apart at 6 months  ) I can tell when something is a lemon after a short time of use.

Some of my problems were reproducible across *FIVE* HR20s and yet not one problem occurred on my any of my Tivos... And yes, I tried swapping units, switches, cables, TVs, HDMI for component for composite, different remote controls, and standing on my left foot. The software in these units is not robust. The software downloading process does not correctly update the data structures from release to release on everyones unit. (Another huge symptom of lack of robust programming techniques.) Based on the number of people who have had problems increase after the last two releases, I can only believe you are not really _using_ your HR20s or more likely you have been lucky.

One other thing to remember. Different software in the MPEG2 to MPEG4 transcoders from one location to another. And for that matter, different HD signals from the various stations to be transcoded. While this is not rocket surgery, interoperability does take time to work out.

Now for some good news. After this last release my problems have diminished significantly. Monday night has been my lockup night, so we'll see how things look tomorrow morning, but I've been able to get all my series link recordings and more NFL ST without problem.

And, by reseting everything and reformatting the disks in four of the units, I may have fixed my last set of problems with manual recordings. I want some more baking time before I pronounce hurrah. (But things never looked this good in the todo list...) 

All this again points to data corruption that isn't checked by the software nor fixable by replacing items in the prioritizer.

Are some people likely to have some problems due to loose cables, dust mites, and things like that? Sure. Of course. One poster mentioned replacing a newly installed cable run that had 7 splices by the D* installer. My cable runs are a bit long for a non-powered switch. (But, again, the DTivos worked great...) So please stop telling me its all my location, location, location. OK? I've wired, tested, debugged, analyzed, programmed, architected, and baked enough solutions to have a clue. When this many smart people have significant problems, there isn't just smoke. There is fire.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

What are the D* script monkeys saying? Are they sticking the the December 1st date or have they changed to late 2006? Actually I prefer "late 2006" since it is a definite time. December 1st could be any year.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> What are the D* script monkeys saying?


I'd be curious about this as well since the 1st is Friday...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

tibber said:


> Another person looking to "flame on".


Bring it on buddy...I can easily add you to the distinguished ignore list.  


tibber said:


> Hdtvfan0001, in my long time of debugging programs, hardware, software, and taking stuff apart to see how they work, (mom tells me I took my playpen apart at 6 months  ) I can tell when something is a lemon after a short time of use.


That kind of lame comment would seem to warrant a flame itself in return.


> Some of my problems were reproducible across *FIVE* HR20s and yet not one problem occurred on my any of my Tivos...


That would seem to be very clear evidence there is a problem with the environment -there the odds of you having 5 bad HR20 boxes there are virtually ZERO. Ask mom if you can check out the playpen more thoroughly. :lol:


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## admiral39 (Nov 7, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Bring it on buddy...I can easily add you to the distinguished ignore list.
> 
> That kind of lame comment would seem to warrant a flame itself in return.
> 
> That would seem to be very clear evidence there is a problem with the environment -there the odds of you having 5 bad HR20 boxes there are virtually ZERO. Ask mom if you can check out the playpen more thoroughly. :lol:


I drove five Cadillacs into the lake and they sank. Must be a problem with the Cadillacs.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Bring it on buddy...I can easily add you to the distinguished ignore list.


Yes, the ignore list is great. Using that method you can carry on a discussion, attempting to make a point, and miss half the conversation. But then again, for some folks it suits them just fine. :grin:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

:backtotop


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That would seem to be very clear evidence there is a problem with the environment -there the odds of you having 5 bad HR20 boxes there are virtually ZERO. :lol:


Indeed, i do not have 5 HR20s with hardware problems. Since my HR10s and HDDVR2s all work in the exact same environment and the problems with manual recurring recordings can't be whether or not my switch is wired right, I'm betting I have 5 HR20s with bad software.

While I presume you do have the 20 years of PC diagnosis you claim and that you are reffering to an actual vocation rather than a minor hobby, I am at a loss as to why are you so intent on not only ignoring the intelligent and articulate members here, but also insulting them as well. There are people here who've built systems, architected and engineered solutions, written tons of software, and led teams of developers and QA staff for more than 20 years. When they talk about identical sounding problems, I should think a smart diagnostician would listen. When they give the kinds of great diagnostic details we've seen, I would think D* would stand up and applaud after listening.

Cheers,
Tom


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## lbostons (Jun 13, 2006)

Well I am still hoping for Friday b/c UNC plays Kentucky and I know for a fact that my local CBS station is transmitting the signal on one of there secondary digital channels but am unsure if they will be transmitting on the main one. If we do not get the update by then I am sure that I will live. It also means that I will be heading to a bar which sounds pretty good too!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> :backtotop


(with respect) Aye-aye, sir. Sorry my very last post was being typed in parallel with your back to topic post...

Which is, as I recall, when is Earl going to spill the beans about OTA? Current odds favor that Earl will never spill dem beans. I could easily believe that OTA will go up tonight for a few, this week for the rest, tho more likely Tuesday for a few...

Cheers,
Tom


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## admiral39 (Nov 7, 2006)

lbostons said:


> Well I am still hoping for Friday b/c UNC plays Kentucky and I know for a fact that my local CBS station is transmitting the signal on one of there secondary digital channels but am unsure if they will be transmitting on the main one. If we do not get the update by then I am sure that I will live. It also means that I will be heading to a bar which sounds pretty good too!


Man, i want OTA just cause I'm sick and tired of recording our network shows in SD! Heroes, The Office, House, CSI... in all their HD glory when I can't be home at the standard air time. Now that would be a Christmas present to remember


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

admiral39 said:


> I drove five Cadillacs into the lake and they sank. Must be a problem with the Cadillacs.


LOL LOL LOL LOL....now THAT'S funny. :lol: :lol: :lol:


tibber said:


> Indeed, i do not have 5 HR20s with hardware problems. Since my HR10s and HDDVR2s all work in the exact same environment and the problems with manual recurring recordings can't be whether or not my switch is wired right, I'm betting I have 5 HR20s with bad software.


Uh....no. The HR20 and its receiving technology and the HR10's are like dignotistically comparing apples and refrigerators.


> While I presume you do have the 20 years of PC diagnosis you claim and that you are reffering to an actual vocation rather than a minor hobby, I am at a loss as to why are you so intent on not only ignoring the intelligent and articulate members here...


We're all in the same boat, only some of us want to paddle and others poke holes in the bottom. There are hundreds of "quick hit" posts here (many from the same 20-30 people - not you) that state:

1) The HR20 is bad
2) The HR20 doesn't work
3) The HR20 doesn't work right
4) The HR20 firmware is bad

etc., etc., etc.

These posts are neither articulate or of much diagnostic value.

My original suggestion was to take the standard approach and narrow down things to the base potential source(s) of anyone's HR20 problem. The problem is, I can probably count on one hand how many people amount those posts have actually done an in-depth review of their environmental components. Instead, most prefer the "quick answer" or "blame what's easiest" approach.

The HR20 is some of the most sophisticated reception and DVR technology to date, including its support for multiple MPEG4 channels, as well as a whole new firmware generation. I'm highly impressed with both the speed and amount of progress made on refining reported issues. Despite me personally having no issues whatsoever with the HR20, and havaing a terrific user experience myself, I also understand that others have not been so fortunate. It would seem the best use of everyone's time and efforts to try to narrow down their solution by taking a "process of elimination" approach - especially since the majority of us do not share these problems with the exact same firmware release and hardware. It doesn't mean these reported problems don't exist or are unimportant, rather, these posters need to take some ownership of the fact that it just might be something at their location itself. If not, for goodness sake, get a new HR20 box.

I've helped dozens and dozens of folks diagnose and get down to the source of their particular technology problems on various equipment over the years, but either whining or making generalized complaints accomplishes nothing.

If we can eliminate some or many of the potential problem sources, we can get down to the real culprits *together*. I know the next firmware update is supposed to take yet another hack at the HDMI issues that a few folks are still having as well as a couple of stability things on manual recordings...that'll help.

Thank goodness for Earl...at least we have some kind of informational conduit to the coder group doing the updates...

My hope is that we are 1-2 updates away from solving most everyone's woes. 

Then there's the OTA thing....


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

admiral39 said:


> I drove five Cadillacs into the lake and they sank. Must be a problem with the Cadillacs.


Yes, it is very funny. 

But, alas, it really doesn't apply here, does it? Admiral must think driving Caddy's into lakes is a normal thing that normal people would do.

Now had Admiral39 said something like "I saw 5 Cadillacs on the GM installed showfloor at the GM dealership and when 5 people did a perfectly normal thing that a Caddy is designed to do, say, like put a Caddy into drive they all blew up. Must be a problem with the user ", then we'd have something much more applicable.

I do agree with hdtvfan0001 that we very well could be 1 or 2 upgrades away from a stable box. And I think he is implying those upgrades could come along fairly soon, to which I also concur.

Cheers,
Tom


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

tibber said:


> Yes, it is very funny.
> 
> But, alas, it really doesn't apply here, does it? Admiral must think driving Caddy's into lakes is a normal thing that normal people would do.
> 
> ...


As a auto tech for 25 years I can attest to cars doing just that! None of them are perfect when first produced....


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

I drove my Pinto in a lake and the gas tank didn't explode. Any advice?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Canis Lupus said:


> I drove my Pinto in a lake and the gas tank didn't explode. Any advice?


Spill the OTA on it first...

Tom


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Canis Lupus said:


> I drove my Pinto in a lake and the gas tank didn't explode. Any advice?


Report it to someone in Retention and you may be able to get it added to the feature list for release sometime prior to OTA.


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## mknoebel (Mar 20, 2003)

Mike Huss said:


> Many people do not have all their stations via MPEG4 yet, myself included. I assume you do? OTA is pretty important to those of us who don't and even more important to those who have zero MPEG4 coverage. Heck, we've only had ours for less than a week.


There are also those of us on the other side of the coin who can ONLY get HD channels because of MPEG4 (Denver area). So, yes, OTA is important, but so is stability with the MPEG4 channels.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> :backtotop


Yes, please. I left this board for about 2 weeks because the stupid attacks back and forth just got tiring. It's been much better lately but now all of a sudden I'm seeing it again. Sigh....


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

mknoebel said:


> There are also those of us on the other side of the coin who can ONLY get HD channels because of MPEG4 (Denver area). So, yes, OTA is important, but so is stability with the MPEG4 channels.


I certainly respect that, even if it is not personally relevant to my situation.

The good news is that I suspect that both the OTA availability and some lingering issues for a few folks will be addressed very soon.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

So Earl...How soon before a release do you get info? How quickly do you post the release notes? The reason I ask is to ask the big question: Where do I send the pizza to you so you won't have to leave your PC whilst we wait with baited breath for the word!

Yes, I know pizza won't begin to cover the debt we owe you for your tireless efforts here. But larger kickbacks are illegal from my wallet during the Christmas season. 

Cheers and many thanks!
Tom


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Different for each release.

I sometimes get the release notes a week in advance, others I get the day of the release.

I usually post the release notes, once someone publicly posts they have received the update (hence I know for certain it was released, as there are cases in the very early hours of the evening, they decide not to release a version).

There are sometimes I can post information earlier then that.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Uh....no. The HR20 and its receiving technology and the HR10's are like dignotistically comparing apples and refrigerators.


I'll bet they are functionally identical. The difference doesn't show up until it comes time to play a channel. At this point, the stream is being read from the hard drive, decoded and rendered. Whether the original source was satellite, OTA, MRV or Internet download, it all ends up as an MPEG file in storage.

The only difference that I can offer is that the OTA delivered stream isn't encrypted while the others are.


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## forum junkie (Sep 9, 2004)

mknoebel said:


> There are also those of us on the other side of the coin who can ONLY get HD channels because of MPEG4 (Denver area). So, yes, OTA is important, but so is stability with the MPEG4 channels.


Keep in mind that stability of MPEG4 isn't something that is in DTV's hands alone. Those that have had OTA or have monitored OTA and cable HD forums know that many of the complaints seen here have been a problem of both the local stations and the networks during this transition. Pixelation, audio pops and drops, audio out of sync have been a problem all along and that is where it will need to be fixed first before it gets to MPEG4.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

forum junkie said:


> Keep in mind that stability of MPEG4 isn't something that is in DTV's hands alone. Those that have had OTA or have monitored OTA and cable HD forums know that many of the complaints seen here have been a problem of both the local stations and the networks during this transition. Pixelation, audio pops and drops, audio out of sync have been a problem all along and that is where it will need to be fixed first before it gets to MPEG4.


Absolutely 100% correct. However when a DVR runs into a poorly formatted Video/Audio stream, be it MPEG2, MPEG4 or OTA it should handle that poor formatting without loosing the recording, freezing or rebooting. It's called error processing and must be handled by any software. Imagine the number of poorly formatted OTA HD signals every HR20 across the nation will be encountering once OTA is enabled?

To compare, the new OS for the HR10 (6.3a) has a problem with OTA signals, particularly from FOX stations. For most that results in an auto dropout. But the recording is still playable. But for some it results in a frozen or rebooting HR10. Not good. So while everyone wants OTA enabled, be prepared for the possible problems that may be created. Be patient once it is enabled.


----------



## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> So while everyone wants OTA enabled, be prepared for the possible problems that may be created. Be patient once it is enabled.


I'm in the camp that wants OTA really badly, but all along have had your "warning" in the forefront of my mushy lil brain. Everyone anticipating OTA MUST "be patient once it is enabled"....there are bound to be a few problems.

If people are expecting OTA to be perfect out of the shoot...readjust your expectations...it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that it will be without some problems.

BE FOREWARNED! (that way, if it does, by some miracle work perfectly and not introduce other problems we can all breath a sigh of relief and sing the praises of D* )


----------



## Slip Jigs (Oct 20, 2006)

So I guess all the hoopla over OTA has to do with, mostly, being able to watch local HD channels where they're not available via satellite, viewing a higher quality signal, and being able to record and watch more things at once. 

Ok. 

I would venture that this is no small update. 

First is just the tuner itself - has to be able to scan OTA channels, find a place for them in the guide, and actually play them. I guess that's no biggie, my TV does that just fine. 

The next part is being able to record and playback and juggle it with the other recordings and playbacks going on. 

But I may be getting ahead of myself - just because there will be three active tuners, does it really mean that we can record two things and watch a third?

How about just enabling the tuner function first - just to see if that works, that we can at least pull in the channels, and then add the recording with a later update? I understand there may be a lot of people wondering why they can't record those channels, but it still may be worth considering.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

hasan said:


> I'm in the camp that wants OTA really badly, but all along have had your "warning" in the forefront of my mushy lil brain. Everyone anticipating OTA MUST "be patient once it is enabled"....there are bound to be a few problems.
> 
> If people are expecting OTA to be perfect out of the shoot...readjust your expectations...it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that it will be without some problems.
> 
> BE FOREWARNED! (that way, if it does, by some miracle work perfectly and not introduce other problems we can all breath a sigh of relief and sing the praises of D* )


Yes....very well put.

hasan your "mushy lil brain" understands more than the brains at DTV from as I see it.

OTA will be enabled, let's all just hope that it's been properly tested.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Slip Jigs said:


> So I guess all the hoopla over OTA has to do with, mostly, being able to watch local HD channels where they're not available via satellite, viewing a higher quality signal, and being able to record and watch more things at once.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> ...


Quite a good read Slips Jig. If only the DTV DVR development staff (R15 and HR20 - yes I include both) would take that approach.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

And these comments are why I get put on "ignore" lists. So funny.


----------



## Slip Jigs (Oct 20, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Quite a good read Slips Jig. If only the DTV DVR development staff (R15 and HR20 - yes I include both) would take that approach.


Thanks - I do have occasional moments of ludicity. But perhaps the developers have considered it, or may even do it that way. Or, Maybe the functionality of watching and recording are not that far removed, so if one works the other will. Or - and probably most likely, they want to be sure the major bugs are worked out with the current features being enabled.


----------



## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> And these comments are why I get put on "ignore" lists. So funny.


...and why some of us follow the threads, Wolff. Always two sides to any coin and the OTA topic is very topical, if you will, for many potential HR20 users.


----------



## uncrph90 (Aug 29, 2002)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Uh....no. The HR20 and its receiving technology and the HR10's are like diagnostically comparing apples and refrigerators.


Wait a minute, that is a bit harsh--I think a better set of comparatives would be apples and pears, or oranges and tangerines. Very similar, but some subtle differences. Yes, I know MPEG2 vs. MPEG4, but the functionality is similar. I am greatly oversimplifying, but the issue is--See satellite data stream, record satellite data stream, playback satellite data stream. I think you are overstating the differences between the HR10 and the HR20. If my multiswitch and wiring worked fine with my HR10's, I don't see how blaming any HR20 issues on the wiring makes any sense. The issue comes back to the box/software combination not being stout enough to handle "real world" setups and situations--and that, in my eyes, leads right back to the HR20. (Which at least for me, is much better in the last couple of updates, no problems except for the occasional searching for signal.)

Another point as well. Hdtvfan0001, I appreciate your slant on the HR20 box perhaps not being the root of all the problems. It is important to remember the other issues that you mention, especially multiswitches, cable runs, etc. But I don't see why you see the need to restate your point in what seems to be almost every thread on this board. I believe that most of us (even those of us who are having problems) will of course remember to troubleshoot the signal all the way from the dish to the tv. But, if everything worked with a HR10 or other receiver and now doesn't with a HR20 in the same spot, blaming the wiring or the user is counter productive, since the box is the "weak" link in the chain.

Sorry--got OT for a while. I understand OTA will have bugs and growing pains. I just keep thinking, the sooner it gets turned on, the sooner we can report any problems, and the sooner it gets fixed--Hooray for everyone!


----------



## jbstix (Dec 29, 2005)

Hmmm, I remember talking about all these same issues and concerns a couple weeks back - and some folks were a little upset that I would even think there might be major issues with the implementation of OTA...

If interested: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=69998

Slip Jigs you're right - it is going to be a major update... and with the HR20's track record thus far,
I'd like to be excited about it, but I'm not, that's why the " are we asking for trouble? " part of the thread.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

D* is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they mention a date and miss it, they've lied. If they don't mention a date, it's "never going to happen." If they put it out when they've hinted even if it's not ready they've failed to test it, etc...

I'd much rather they wait until it's ready. Yes, I know, people without mpeg4 locals (I'm one of them, though I do use my HR10 as my main box) want it NOW, but if it doesn't work, it won't be useful so NOW won't help much.


----------



## mnassour (Apr 23, 2002)

Capmeister said:


> D* is damned if they do and damned if they don't..


Only because of the abominable performance of the unit to date. Until D* gets its act together on this, they have zero credibility...as well they should.


----------



## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Ah, the performance has been abominable for some, okay for others. They're working on it. I give them another month to work out the kinks.


----------



## Kentstater (Jun 18, 2004)

Earl
Let me ask if there are any problems or delays that you know of that would delay speculated dates?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Kentstater said:


> Earl
> Let me ask if there are any problems or delays that you know of that would delay speculated dates?


Other then they try not to release things on the weekend if possible...

No, OTA is comming along very nicely.


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

It would be cool to get a page or an email when this comes out.:lol: I'm getting very antsy. Gotta relax.....It'll come. PS It's the East Coast's turn to get the newest software first.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

mikeny said:


> It would be cool to get a page or an email when this comes out.:lol: I'm getting very antsy. Gotta relax.....It'll come. PS It's the East Coast's turn to get the newest software first.


Or they could send a message to the yet unused message feature of the HR20. How ta heck are folks that don't visit a forum such as this even going to know OTA was turned on?


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

mikeny said:


> It would be cool to get a page or an email when this comes out.:lol: I'm getting very antsy. Gotta relax.....It'll come. PS It's the East Coast's turn to get the newest software first.


Nope, I'd rather not be part of the final phase of testing for these updates. Let the Left Coasters deal with that


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Or they could send a message to the yet unused message feature of the HR20. How ta heck are folks that don't visit a forum such as this even going to know OTA was turned on?


I was thinking of something along those lines as well.


----------



## rsblaski (Jul 6, 2003)

Canis Lupus said:


> I drove my Pinto in a lake and the gas tank didn't explode. Any advice?


Obviously your Pinto is defective.
The gas tanks were designed to explode.
Contact Ralph Nader for advice.


----------



## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Or they could send a message to the yet unused message feature of the HR20. How ta heck are folks that don't visit a forum such as this even going to know OTA was turned on?


You don't suppose that when the unit restarts, it'll do auto scan for ATSC channels and alert the user of new channels found, etc.? Even still, I guess I you have to be around to see that.


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Wolffpack said:


> How ta heck are folks that don't visit a forum such as this even going to know OTA was turned on?


Actually it's not really an issue. 95% of the people out there don't even know what OTA is let alone want to use it. I know of only 1 other person that even has an antenna let alone uses it for OTA.

I can't tell you how many funny looks I've gotten when I tell them I get HD with an antenna they think I'm crazy. "Isn't that what cable is for?" Today's generation don't even remember a time when the antenna was the only way to get TV.

So no, I don't think it's an issue at all really. Most likely the people really interested in OTA are the "geeks" like us and we're all over the forums.


----------



## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Don't forget the antenna feature (greyed out right now) is in one of the first steps of the guided setup. I'll bet we'll have to wait for the word from Earl, then when we get the software, we'll have to repeat the guided setup to activate the tuners.

You guys are right though. How does the general public even find out about this stuff?



mikeny said:


> You don't suppose that when the unit restarts, it'll do auto scan for ATSC channels and alert the user of new channels found, etc.? Even still, I guess I you have to be around to see that.


----------



## psubill78 (Nov 22, 2006)

Unlikely it will be automated.. it would need to know what "secondary" market you'd want setup - if it will even have that feature..

Like my HR10-250 has Milwaukee Market from D*, but I use Chicago OTA since Milwaukee TV stations suck.


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> Actually it's not really an issue. 95% of the people out there don't even know what OTA is let alone want to use it. I know of only 1 other person that even has an antenna let alone uses it for OTA.


I think that depends on your location. Sure, in GR you can't receive any HD signals without a roof mount antenna with two or three elements all pointing different directions (I had one of those Royal 17s) but here in Phoenix every station has their transmitter atop South Mt. All I've got now is a $40 indoor antenna sitting in a cabinet. The easier an antenna is to setup for an area, the more customers there will be using, or wanting to use one.

But you're right about the strange looks. On Thanksgiving we were having some pixelation with the local FOX station for the game so I tilted the antenna a little and the extended family had the oddest looks on their face when I said that was our antenna. "But don't you have a dish?". I said "yep" and left it at that. Too much explaining to do for the cable minded.


----------



## nocaster (Nov 2, 2006)

Once you convice someone that it is possible to get HD OTA you then need to spend about 5 minutes convincing them that there is no such thing as an HD antenna.


----------



## Soundteck (Aug 28, 2006)

:lol: !rolling That is TOO funny...


----------



## cookpr (Aug 24, 2006)

OTA will be activated.......but.......it will be automatically D*'ed down to 1/2 bit rate and 1/2 resolution...

(sarcastic)...


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

cookpr said:


> OTA will be activated.......but.......it will be automatically D*'ed down to 1/2 bit rate and 1/2 resolution...
> 
> (sarcastic)...


Ouch! Eerie, but ouch! 

Earl, if the left coasters don't want to be guinea pigs for OTA yet and the right coasters are too numerous, I suggest D* move one timezone to the right and hit us in MST.  I have a test lab of several HR20s all ready for alpha tes....I mean beta... hmm really I mean proving OTA as viable... 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Sign me up in Boise as well! MY OTA signals look so good I can't even watch the recorded SD locals I have now. Go MST zone!



tibber said:


> Ouch! Eerie, but ouch!
> 
> Earl, if the left coasters don't want to be guinea pigs for OTA yet and the right coasters are too numerous, I suggest D* move one timezone to the right and hit us in MST.  I have a test lab of several HR20s all ready for alpha tes....I mean beta... hmm really I mean proving OTA as viable...
> 
> ...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There are no "signups"... sorry

It will most likey be the west coasters first; followed by everyone else.


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## redfiver (Nov 18, 2006)

all we need now is the actual date!  

Sometimes I wish I never came to sites like this. It would be nice to be part of the ingnorant masses again. I know only this much | - | more than the average person now, and some stuff I don't want to know!  

I've never been a patient waiter. It just kills me! :grin:


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl,

Perhaps another tact: "How many sets of unpublished (and likely unfinalized) release notes do you have for the HR20 right now?" 

Thanks again for all your help,
Tom


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

tibber said:


> Earl,
> 
> Perhaps another tact: "How many sets of unpublished (and likely unfinalized) release notes do you have for the HR20 right now?"


I think you're going about it all wrong. Offering Earl a 6-pack or perhaps a nice bottle of Jack would probably yield better results :lol:


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

I tried pizza (and an opening for other incentives) 

I also strongly suspect Earl will never crack on a direct question--at least with the amount I'm able to offer...


----------



## dpfaunts (Oct 17, 2006)

We will find ways to make him talk....... (think sordid Russian accent  )


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Pizza... now we are talking...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

dpfaunts said:


> We will find ways to make him talk....... (think sordid Russian accent  )


Don't hurt him! He is way too helpful!


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Pizza... now we are talking...


I have friends and relatives who frequent the Chitown 'burbs who would be happy to deliver... Just PM address and your order...


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## dpfaunts (Oct 17, 2006)

Pizza very, very, very rewarding..... tiger fast! 

And I'll vote to move the beta section the the mountain time zone as well. Nobody ever mentions us, so there'd be no one to complain.


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

You can also try reading between the lines, like this post from Earl in another thread:

'Define soon?

I highly doubt if it comes it will be in 2006, but 2007 is a "new year"...' 



tibber said:


> I tried pizza (and an opening for other incentives)
> 
> I also strongly suspect Earl will never crack on a direct question--at least with the amount I'm able to offer...


----------



## mikhu (Oct 10, 2006)

I disagree. I think the central time zone should be first being that Earl is in it and all. 

This has nothing to do with the fact that I am in it too.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Mike Huss said:


> I disagree. I think the central time zone should be first being that Earl is in it and all.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the fact that I am in it too.


Earl is already on the early hit list. He gets before left coasters do.


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## mike_augie (Oct 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Other then they try not to release things on the weekend if possible...
> 
> No, OTA is comming along very nicely.


If you read this very closely and know how earl works...... ......then i read this as he already has the update and it will be very very soon...if I was a betting man


----------



## Cyberman (Oct 22, 2006)

Earl,

What is your relationship with D* and how do you have the inside scoop to everything? This is not meant to be disrespectful, just wondering.  

Cyber


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Cyberman said:


> Earl,
> 
> What is your relationship with D* and how do you have the inside scoop to everything? This is not meant to be disrespectful, just wondering.
> 
> Cyber


Hopefully this explains it:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=727572&postcount=3


----------



## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Wow. I had no idea. Respekt.



Earl Bonovich said:


> Hopefully this explains it:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=727572&postcount=3


----------



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Cyberman said:


> Earl,
> 
> What is your relationship with D* and how do you have the inside scoop to everything? This is not meant to be disrespectful, just wondering.
> 
> Cyber


A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away......oh but that reminds me. Maybe time to resurrect an old tale from the long ago years of this forum.

DVR Wars - Episode I.

Thanks again to one of my fellow wolves. Time for an update Mike? Where exactly does Earl fit? :lol:


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Canis Lupus said:


> Wow. I had no idea. Respekt.


Thank you....


----------



## dconfer (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl.
Being an AS400 developer I have to say this there is no such thing as an AS400 anymore they are called I5. Just couldnt resist.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dconfer said:


> Earl.
> Being an AS400 developer I have to say this there is no such thing as an AS400 anymore they are called I5. Just couldnt resist.


Actually around our shop... they still call it an AS400...
I know it as the box I am not going to touch, unless they add a digit to the front of my salary.


----------



## dconfer (Nov 18, 2005)

We actually call it an AS400 also but I just could not resist.


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually around our shop... they still call it an AS400...
> I know it as the box I am not going to touch, unless they add a digit to the front of my salary.


Still call it "the 400" around my place too. I hate dealing with Client Access...


----------



## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

I thought AS-400 referred to the old network coax cabling - dang - geekness. 



Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually around our shop... they still call it an AS400...
> I know it as the box I am not going to touch, unless they add a digit to the front of my salary.


----------



## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Canis Lupus said:


> I thought AS-400 referred to the old network coax cabling - dang - geekness.


Actually, wasn't it Twinax? 

We have one sitting in the back at the office. Hasn't been used for 10+ years.


----------



## spivey (Nov 21, 2006)

We call ours "the box taking up space in storage that no one will pay IBM's hourly rate to fix". 

Now it's the RS/6K that gets all of the attention.


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

For the first time, I'm actually surprised to not see a new update this morning. Perhaps OTA tomorrow, although I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## psubill78 (Nov 22, 2006)

AS400 just means old  

Old technology,
Old people working on it, 
Old and ready to be retired


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

PoitNarf said:


> For the first time, I'm actually surprised to not see a new update this morning. Perhaps OTA tomorrow, although I'm not holding my breath.


Don't hold your breath... you may pass out before the next release comes out.


----------



## Rpbertxyz (Feb 22, 2006)

psubill78 said:


> AS400 just means old
> 
> Old technology,
> Old people working on it,
> Old and ready to be retired


That's me in a nut shell. Used to program the AS400 using RPGlll. I was 55 at the time. Retired when I was 56 and I am 71 today.


----------



## uncrph90 (Aug 29, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Don't hold your breath... you may pass out before the next release comes out.


Ok Earl, I think have a pretty good understanding of what you are able and unable to tell us. For example I won't ask you if you think OTA will be out by Dec 1, since that is too easy to pin you down with only 1 more day remaining--BUT, are you willing to give a personal (not burning your sources) opinion for OTA sometime by the 1st week of December? (ie. activated sometime 11/29/06 through 12/8/06) 25%, 50%, 75%, etc. chance?

Inquiring minds want to know!

(And there's a plate of BBQ in it for you if you ever come down this way--my treat!)


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

As of this morning, I now have conflicting information...

So I would put it at 60%-40%


----------



## bigdeps (Sep 30, 2006)

I have some intresting news from a advanced tech supervisor from DTV. He told me last night that he just found out that the OTA tuners wouldnt be enabled until "Early 2007" and this guy seemed like he knew what he was talking about. 

He claimed everything was on target for the inital release this week but he then got some notes last night that told him it would be pushed back, again. He said more info should be available on the 1st. He apolgized for the delay and gave me a credit.

Any truth?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bigdeps said:


> Any truth?


Truth... yes, that is the information that the CSR teir was given (I had a good number of PM's about it).

Truth... about it being "correct" information, I don't know yet.


----------



## bigdeps (Sep 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Truth... yes, that is the information that the CSR teir was given (I had a good number of PM's about it).
> 
> Truth... about it being "correct" information, I don't know yet.


Earl how could they be "so close" and yet delay the release again? Is that the nature of the testers? Did it fail these pre-release tests?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

bigdeps said:


> Earl how could they be "so close" and yet delay the release again? Is that the nature of the testers? Did it fail these pre-release tests?


Again, like I said.
That is the information the CSR tier was given.

I have not gotten any updated information (since Monday evening), from my contacts on the technical side of things.


----------



## bigdeps (Sep 30, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Again, like I said.
> That is the information the CSR tier was given.
> 
> I have not gotten any updated information (since Monday evening), from my contacts on the technical side of things.


Well I have no idea if it is true but I got a fairly large credit on my bill because of the misunderstanding. He told me that I should call back on the 1st and get a detailed explanation once he has it in hand. I have his ext. and everything. So we shall see.


----------



## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

:nono2:


----------



## uncrph90 (Aug 29, 2002)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As of this morning, I now have conflicting information...
> 
> So I would put it at 60%-40%


Earl--thanks for the update! I now must practice self hypnosis and not think about OTA for at least one week-----not think about OTA for at least one week------not think about OTA for at least one week------not think about OTA for at least one week------Has it been a week yet?


----------



## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Or you could do like Cartman did on South Park while waiting for the Wii. You could freeze yourself. 



uncrph90 said:


> Earl--thanks for the update! I now must practice self hypnosis and not think about OTA for at least one week-----not think about OTA for at least one week------not think about OTA for at least one week------not think about OTA for at least one week------Has it been a week yet?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Truth... yes, that is the information that the CSR teir was given (I had a good number of PM's about it).
> 
> Truth... about it being "correct" information, I don't know yet.


Earl, perhaps you might post the information you _can_ reveal in the official OTA sticky, as I'm sure that a lot of people are going to look at that in the next couple of days.

Thanks.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

lamontcranston said:


> Earl, perhaps you might post the information you _can_ reveal in the official OTA sticky, as I'm sure that a lot of people are going to look at that in the next couple of days.
> 
> Thanks.


Once I have some... I will update it.


----------



## craspedacusta (Nov 29, 2006)

My husband called customer service last night after the DVR failed to record a show (although it appeared to have recorded the show - but all we got was a black screen and then it disappeared from the playlist after reset- it does this often). Anyway, she told us that OTA is delayed until "sometime in 2007", that they tried to push it out somewhere and it didn't work so now it is pushed back again. We can't get local HD any other way, so it is upsetting. They told us the receiver could do OTA before we got it  

PS They are sending a new box, hopefully fixing our other issues (too many to list right now).


----------



## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

craspedacusta said:


> Anyway, she told us that OTA is delayed until "sometime in 2007", that they tried to push it out somewhere and it didn't work so now it is pushed back again. We can't get local HD any other way, so it is upsetting. They told us the receiver could do OTA before we got it (


Sounds like the csr's are going to have a rough christmas.. I know I'll be screaming at them if they push it back that far... :nono2: :box:


----------



## bigdeps (Sep 30, 2006)

houskamp said:


> Sounds like the csr's are going to have a rough christmas.. I know I'll be screaming at them if they push it back that far... :nono2: :box:


Well I can tell you right know the amount they credited my bill made my frustration with DTV vanish  Although I'm very upset and I'm praying that its not true. However if we do indeed end up getting OTA soon what a deal for me! 

I think we are all in for a surprise come Dec. 1st. The Supervisor claims that will be the day a statement will be made. Sooo Friday is the big day. (If he has any idea what he is talking about)


----------



## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

Mike Huss said:


> FWIW, I got an AT9 installed Saturday morning and I asked the installer if he has heard any rumors about OTA and he said he's hearing MARCH. I hope he's just out of the loop.


Sounds like he might not be the one out of the loop? I just spoke to DirectTV teir 2 CSR and she verified "Early 2007".


----------



## psubill78 (Nov 22, 2006)

21hawk said:


> Sounds like he might not be the one out of the loop? I just spoke to DirectTV teir 2 CSR and she verified "Early 2007".


QUICK, EVERYONE CALL UP DTV so you can hear Early 2007!!!!

<sarcasm>


----------



## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

psubill78 said:


> QUICK, EVERYONE CALL UP DTV so you can hear Early 2007!!!!


Actually I called to report a problem I was having while watching FNL last evening, thought I would ask while I was on the line. My point in posting this was I found it humorous how the installer's statement has been ridiculed, and that appears unjustified at this point in time.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

psubill78 said:


> QUICK, EVERYONE CALL UP DTV so you can hear Early 2007!!!!


Why? How many times do I have to post, that this IS the information the CSR tier has been given.

No need to call... It is the information they where given last night.
If any other CSR tells you anything difference, either then haven't seen the memo... or is making crap up to make you happy.


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## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

Maybe the CSR teir is just "out of the loop", I hear OTA is coming very soon.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

21hawk said:


> Maybe the CSR teir is just "out of the loop", I hear OTA is coming very soon.


I don't think they are "out of the loop"... I think they are in a loop, that just got an update from "their" source, last night.

There is no doubting that is what they where told last night...

But again... They are no different then me.

We are only as good as the source of information.


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## 21hawk (Nov 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I don't think they are "out of the loop"... I think they are in a loop, that just got an update from "their" source, last night.
> 
> There is no doubting that is what they where told last night...
> 
> ...


I assumed the sarcasm in my post would be obvious.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

21hawk said:


> I assumed the sarcasm in my post would be obvious.


My apologize, my humor level has dropped a few notches in the last hour.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> My apologize, my humor level has dropped a few notches in the last hour.


No one blames you, Earl.  We still love ya.


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## bigdeps (Sep 30, 2006)

I dont understand why the other thread was locked? Why cant we discuss the issue that OTA may be delayed? 

I'm not trying to upset anyone I'm just thirsty for some sort of an explanation.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bigdeps said:


> I'm not trying to upset anyone I'm just thirsty for some sort of an explanation.


Nobody here can offer a satisfactory authoritative explanation.


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## bigdeps (Sep 30, 2006)

harsh said:


> Nobody here can offer a satisfactory authoritative explanation.


No i'm talking about why the thread was locked. Not about OTA delay.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

No, Earl, you are better than your source of information (assuming this OTA slippage is correct). I would hate for you to be contaminated by the incompetence of anyone at D*.

If this is true, it is a PR nightmare for D* to have dribbled out a late 2006 rollout with hints at Dec 1, only to be followed up by pushing it back to 2007. I can think of a few worse "bungles" that they could have managed....but not many.

Based on this kind of "performance", I now fully expect the following from the HR20:

1. No college bowl season OTA
2. No Super Bowl OTA
3. No March Madness OTA

And before someone asks, NO we don't have MPEG-4/HD-Locals here yet...they are promised by D* before "year's end"

Gee...where have I heard that date before...and even if they manage to make that deadline, there is no certainty that HD-Locals won't turn into a virus for the HR20 anyway. 

Oh well, at least I can watch OTA-HD on my Sammy...don't have to depend on D* for that...and I don't think there's anything they can do to ruin that no matter what they do.

I can record HD in SD on my Panasonic DVD/Hard Disk recorder....oh...wait...D* screwed that up too...you have play the damn program (again) to record it, when a simple "Tune To" function (for the initial recording) would have prevented this silly waste of time in the first place.

So here we are, the majority of HR20 users in this forum, at least somewhat satisfied with the box, and they find a way to disappoint a significant number of even the satisifed. (without breaking the box) I'm in awe of the the ability of D* to snatch defeat from the hands of victory, what talent!

D* Rules!

For me, the HR20 is a good box, but D*, the business enterprise, is becoming quite another.


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## jclark (Oct 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> My apologize, my humor level has dropped a few notches in the last hour.


I can't imagine why. :lol:


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

hasan said:


> No, Earl, you are better than your source of information (assuming this OTA slippage is correct). I would hate for you to be contaminated by the incompetence of anyone at D*.


HEAR, HEAR! Extremely well said, hasan!

Cheers,
Tom


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Me thinks it is wise to get some facts, rather than rumors, before one's underwear gets all in a bundle....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Me thinks it is wise to get some facts, rather than rumors, before one's underwear gets all in a bundle....


It is not "rumor"... it is, in fact... what the CSR's where told, yesterday.

What is questioned, is if the CSRs where given the most update to date/correct information.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Pretty sad that Earl, being 'outside of D' always seems to get better info than D's own employees.. As big as D is and having their own web site you think they could get their act together and post the developments, instead of letting all their coustomers (and own employees) sit in the dark..
P.S. Thanks for all your hard work Earl!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It is not "rumor"... it is, in fact... what the CSR's where told, yesterday.
> 
> What is questioned, is if the CSRs where given the most update to date/correct information.


So my point was that there are no *factual *delay dates yet, so we'll all somehow have to live in peace until the real date appears. I can do that.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

This entire thread is a very good example of why D* does not post "official" predictions of when something will be available. The only reliable way to do that is to have the finished and tested product sitting there and decide to release it 2 weeks in the future and provide that date. Otherwise, if there is a delay for any reason at all, the world turns angry and storms the doors of the castle with burning torches in hand.

I for one am so very glad that someone at D* took the time and effort to set up a relationship with Earl and provide what information they could. I believe that everything Earl gets and is allowed to release is as official and probable as it can possibly be. However, short of having the finished product sitting there, no one can say with certainty that any software update, or feature implementation, will occur on a specific date. I am also equally glad that Earl has the patience and tolerance to be the messenger that some are inclined to shoot. Keep up the great work.

As for OTA on the HR20, well in my personal case I am very interested. When it is working reliably, I plan to get an HR20. Until then, I simply am not going to worry about it.

Carl


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

carl6 said:


> This entire thread is a very good example of why D* does not post "official" predictions of when something will be available. The only reliable way to do that is to have the finished and tested product sitting there and decide to release it 2 weeks in the future and provide that date. Otherwise, if there is a delay for any reason at all, the world turns angry and storms the doors of the castle with burning torches in hand.


It's a byot (bring your own torch) party!! Now where is D's headquarters again? :lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

houskamp said:


> It's a byot (bring your own torch) party!! Now where is D's headquarters again? :lol:


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=71387


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bigdeps said:


> No i'm talking about why the thread was locked. Not about OTA delay.


If you can't get what you're looking for, what's the use of keeping the thread alive?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

harsh said:


> If you can't get what you're looking for, what's the use of keeping the thread alive?


Which is why new threads are growing like weeds around here. The only one of value is the sticky thread on OTA from Earl, who will tell us something when he gets some *real facts*...


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Well....there's always catharsis  (if you believe in that sort of thing...I don't, but hey, there's an entire mental health industry set up to take advantage of it)


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Which is why new threads are growing like weeds around here. The only one of value is the sticky thread on OTA from Earl, who will tell us something when he gets some *real facts*...


I've said it before, I'll say it again. Earl is a great resource here, but Earl isn't God. He has sources and knows as much as his sources tell him. CSRs have been told one thing. Everyone needs to keep in mind that just maybe, with the hoopla going on, Earl's contacts haven't have time to get back to him. The fact that all members of this forum can post their experiences and thoughts is why this forum exists. Not necessarily as an un-official DTV pipeline via Earl.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I just ask instead of 10 threads popping up about the same thing we try and keep it in this one. If anyone notices other pop up and we don't catch please report them and we will do a merge to try and keep it a little cleaner. Hopefully this is just another case of one side of DTV not know what the other is actually doing. I mean if it gets held off I see both sides, it will disappoint many people with the DVR but with the holidays coming it could turn into a support nightmare with the DTV staff being in the traditional holiday flux.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

That makes total sense Clint. No need for multiple lines of speculation. Let's center it all in this thread and all speculation/gambling can occur here. And there was no sarcasm in this message.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Now to add speculation to this thread......

Given Earl's update of the OA Status sticky, my guess is he's still not gotten anything official/unofficial from his sources. Which, to me, equates to DTV has kinda left Earl out in the cold.

It's bad enough that DTV never announces anything themselves. Now they have someone like Earl, that puts in the time and defnds the DTV position, and they can't provide him with anything? All along we knew the CSRs tended to have mis-information. But now the CSR crowd seems to have the poop. And Earl's been left out in the cold. I would think after a few hours of this floating around, we'd be getting a yea or nay instead of silence.

Anyone other than me think DTV deserves the PR their about to get? Earl has built up trust in this community and now it seems that a) his sources don't know anything more than CSRs (or as much as the CSRs) or b) his sources don't seem to be wanting to talk. Either way, not a good thing.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

So... what's been going on while I have been away?

I have been in "contact" with my contact...

As many of you know... I rarely give "dates"... there is a reason for that.
There are no hard-fast dates to give. And that is no different this time.

He is not sure "why" that information was given to the CSRs, and he re-confirmed what I already knew (but can't share with you all.... just yet). 

As of right now... no December 1st will not be "the day"... nor was it ever really.. "the day", as there never was "a day".

As I have said many times over, they are not going to rush the OTA out....

There have been no "earthshaking" issues that have come up... in fact, there has been a very POSITIVE issue that has come up, which may in turn slight delay things... but it's one of those... if we wait a few more days, we can get a lot more things in one "larger" release.

So in a nutshell... basically.. things are the same way I thought they where.
And honestly, that is a good thing.

I haven't been left out of the cold... my contacts where simply busy doing their jobs...


----------



## Rugged (Sep 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As of right now... no December 1st will not be "the day"...


oooh, I like double negatives....so what you're saying is it will be Dec 1st 

just kidding.
thanks again Earl.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Double negatives are fun... when they are intended.

As you could guess... I ment No. December 1st will not be "the day"

I can confirm at least that much.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> So... what's been going on while I have been away?
> 
> I have been in "contact" with my contact...
> 
> ...


Good news indeed....sounds worth the additional small wait.


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## Rugged (Sep 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Double negatives are fun... when they are intended.
> 
> As you could guess... I ment No. December 1st will not be "the day"
> 
> I can confirm at least that much.


I *know *one thing, it's always nice to smile now and then.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There have been no "earthshaking" issues that have come up... in fact, there has been a very POSITIVE issue that has come up, which may in turn slight delay things... but it's one of those... if we wait a few more days, we can get a lot more things in one "larger" release.


I'm interpreting that as, the cause for a major bug with the HR20 has been discovered and they're currently working on a fix. Is there another way of viewing a POSITIVE issue? :lol:


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## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

Maybe they found the root cause of unplayable/BSOD recordings.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

PoitNarf said:


> I'm interpreting that as, the cause for a major bug with the HR20 has been discovered and they're currently working on a fix. Is there another way of viewing a POSITIVE issue? :lol:


Actually... yes, there is another way to look at it.


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## baimo (Sep 8, 2006)

Ok I changed my mind. OTA will be enabled 12/10(voice in head told me). I can wait until then.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

baimo said:


> Ok I changed my mind. OTA will be enabled 12/10. I can wait until then.


LOL!

When I was a kid I used to talk myself into stuff, making up imaginary dates. "Yup, I'm getting that new matchbox car next Friday! Sure am!"

If they're not ready, they're not ready.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... yes, there is another way to look at it.


Earl the oracle speaks. Let me try to interpret this...

It sounds like there will be a significant feature addition at the same time they release OTA. Dare I set the rumor mill spinning? Could it be something from the top eschelon of the survey? Anyone care to guess?


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## baimo (Sep 8, 2006)

Sure web interface will be enabled with ota and free ppv's galore. merry xmas


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## laxcoach (Dec 7, 2005)

I have to wonder if we could enable OTA given the proper remote key sequence. It seems to me that for additional features, I would release them as easter eggs for my beta testers to enable. Further, if this is the case, I have to wonder if someone who got the box a month before anyone else, also has that easter egg enabled.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Forget additional features from wishlists! How about making CURRENT features bullet-proof? So, on that note, and in light of the fact that OTA obviously isn't happening this week, when will the next update be coming down the pike? Anyone care to speculate on THAT?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Forget additional features from wishlists! How about making CURRENT features bullet-proof? So, on that note, and in light of the fact that OTA obviously isn't happening this week, when will the next update be coming down the pike? Anyone care to speculate on THAT?


How 'bout the best of both worlds, next week, OTA & Fixes, same update

(Pure speculation with a dash of wishful thinking)


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## pgiralt (Oct 12, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> Earl the oracle speaks. Let me try to interpret this...
> 
> It sounds like there will be a significant feature addition at the same time they release OTA. Dare I set the rumor mill spinning? Could it be something from the top eschelon of the survey? Anyone care to guess?


Dual Buffers?


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

pgiralt said:


> Dual Buffers?


Hmmm, maybe it's that networking feature for Viiv computers to access photos and mp3s.....


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I try not to be a "hater" but I could not possibly care less about sharing photos and MP3s on my HR20. I can't imagine a less important use for networking the HR20 to a PC. Web-based scheduling, streaming, multi-room viewing, even error reporting are excellent uses for the ethernet port. Looking at photos? Feh. There are already flash-based solutions for looking at digital photos on a TV. Music? Double feh. Just plug your music player of choice into your receiver. 

Sorry, I've been saving that up since the original announcement. I'm fine now.


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## Groundhog45 (Nov 10, 2005)

lamontcranston said:


> I try not to be a "hater" but I could not possibly care less about sharing photos and MP3s on my HR20. I can't imagine a less important use for networking the HR20 to a PC. Web-based scheduling, streaming, multi-room viewing, even error reporting are excellent uses for the ethernet port. Looking at photos? Feh. There are already flash-based solutions for looking at digital photos on a TV. Music? Double feh. Just plug your music player of choice into your receiver.
> 
> Sorry, I've been saving that up since the original announcement. I'm fine now.


I totally agree. It's like the way cell phone companies keep adding useless features and then try to convince us we need to use them. I want one that just works well as a cell phone.  ....... And an HR20 that works as a HD DVR with OTA. 

GH


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> I try not to be a "hater" but I could not possibly care less about sharing photos and MP3s on my HR20. I can't imagine a less important use for networking the HR20 to a PC. Web-based scheduling, streaming, multi-room viewing, even error reporting are excellent uses for the ethernet port. Looking at photos? Feh. There are already flash-based solutions for looking at digital photos on a TV. Music? Double feh. Just plug your music player of choice into your receiver.
> 
> Sorry, I've been saving that up since the original announcement. I'm fine now.


I agree about the MRV and web-based scheduling being more of a networking priority for DVRs, but I nevertheless, it could be cool, especially if you have your HR20 connected to your audio receiver for you to instantly play mp3s from another computer. Also, digital photos look great on my tv and the convenience of that access would be welcomed too.


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## sgrimess (Nov 15, 2006)

What are you guys going to about a third jack in your wall when OTA becomes available? The two I had are now being used? Will an installer have to come back out and run another cable down my wall, cut a hole and install a plate? Just curious.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

sgrimess said:


> What are you guys going to about a third jack in your wall when OTA becomes available? The two I had are now being used? Will an installer have to come back out and run another cable down my wall, cut a hole and install a plate? Just curious.


Welcome to the forums! :welcome_s

I got lucky. I was wiring my house last year when I heard the news about OTA on the same line as sat. It was almost too late, but I managed to pull that in before I buttoned up everything.

To handle the number of connectors I wanted at each location, I put a modular plate in that handles 6 different modular connectors. I'm using 4 coax, 1 ethernet, and 1 phone in most rooms. the heavy media rooms have slightly different needs so they have more coax and I used two plates there.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

sgrimess said:


> What are you guys going to about a third jack in your wall when OTA becomes available? The two I had are now being used? Will an installer have to come back out and run another cable down my wall, cut a hole and install a plate? Just curious.


Depending on your location, you may be able to use an indoor antenna.


----------



## Meklos (Nov 7, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Depending on your location, you may be able to use an indoor antenna.


There's always the now-more-complex diplexing solution.


----------



## shell lanes (Nov 23, 2006)

do any 1 know when is the next update is comeing for the hr20-700? i know how to froce the update for your rev if any 1 want to know how let me know ok


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

sgrimess said:


> What are you guys going to about a third jack in your wall when OTA becomes available? The two I had are now being used? Will an installer have to come back out and run another cable down my wall, cut a hole and install a plate? Just curious.


This won't help you, but perhaps someone starting from scratch: don't put cables in new construction, put ribbed plastic conduit (of appropriate size) so you can pull as many cables (and replace same) as you need. I did that for not only my sat stuff, but for all my speaker cables when we did the addition. I also pulled 4 cables when I only needed two.

The plastic conduit (blue/ribbed/assorted sizes, available in any Home Depot or such) is quite cheap, and will save a lot of trouble later.

I also don't use jacks...they may be pretty, but they are just another source of loss (think splice). My cables come out a standard electrical box behind the HT setup (which is a 7' tall rolling rack) and cannot be seen unless you wander in behind the equipment/TV.

Yes, you will need another cable run, unless your transmitting complex for your OTA networks are close enough to permit using an indoor antenna like the Silver Sensor or such.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

hasan said:


> This won't help you, but perhaps someone starting from scratch: don't put cables in new construction, put ribbed plastic conduit (of appropriate size) so you can pull as many cables (and replace same) as you need. I did that for not only my sat stuff, but for all my speaker cables when we did the addition. I also pulled 4 cables when I only needed two.


Excellent advise.

That's what we did when we built our dedicated Home Theater, and its paid off many time over when we've made upgrades or changes.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

hasan said:


> The plastic conduit (blue/ribbed/assorted sizes, available in any Home Depot or such) is quite cheap, and will save a lot of trouble later.


Affectionately known as Smurf Tube for its blue color.


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## mgcsooner (Dec 18, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... yes, there is another way to look at it.


Earl, how about this way
"we just needed a day or two more to be sure this release is solid enough for us to include release of some anticipated feature(s)?

does it go with or without the (s)?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

With the S


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## mgcsooner (Dec 18, 2004)

If I had a toad handy could I use it to spell one of them?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mgcsooner said:


> If I had a toad handy could I use it to spell one of them?


Sure... but I am not sure what you would do with the extra d


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

If I had dual buffers handy, could I use it to spell another one of them too?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tfederov said:


> If I had dual buffers handy, could I use it to spell another one of them too?


Nah...


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

mgcsooner said:


> If I had a toad handy could I use it to spell one of them?


ok googling toad....trying to crack this..:lol:


----------



## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

mikeny said:


> ok googling toad....trying to crack this..:lol:


Google toad in the the mirror without the d


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## mgcsooner (Dec 18, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Sure... but I am not sure what you would do with the extra d


'use it with daethernet?


----------



## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

lamontcranston said:


> I try not to be a "hater" but I could not possibly care less about sharing photos and MP3s on my HR20. I can't imagine a less important use for networking the HR20 to a PC. Web-based scheduling, streaming, multi-room viewing, even error reporting are excellent uses for the ethernet port. Looking at photos? Feh. There are already flash-based solutions for looking at digital photos on a TV. Music? Double feh. Just plug your music player of choice into your receiver.
> 
> Sorry, I've been saving that up since the original announcement. I'm fine now.


I'm with ya' there! Hence the reason that I never "upgraded" from the Series 1 DTiVo. I have a computer, iPod, etc to store and stream music. I can plug an SD card into my TV if I want to view pictures there (I have never done so, as the thought of viewing pictures on my TV seems ridiculous to me).

I need my DVR to do ONE thing. Record TV programs! If they can make this boat anchor do that in a bulletproof fashion, as I've come to expect from my five TiVos, then I'll be a fan. As of now, I would consider myself leaning toward the "hater" category!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

But there are a lot of people that "would" use that feature.
Some people don't have memory slots in their TV's for the pictures...
Or want to buy a docking bay for the IPOD's

Not every feature is for everyone one....

And no, that is not the feature being added either... in this next release.


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## psubill78 (Nov 22, 2006)

The HR20 page on DTV's site has been updated:

"ATSC tuner functionality for viewing digital and HD broadcasts received from an off-air antenna will not be available until later this year. A software download will be pushed to the HR20 via the satellite before the end of the year to enable this functionality"

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=900025

So long as this isn't up in 2007, we'll be ok


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But there are a lot of people that "would" use that feature.
> Some people don't have memory slots in their TV's for the pictures...


Case in point, my Sony HDTV has a slot for their own Memory Stick stuff (blech). I don't have any Sony Memory Sticks and I don't want any. I just got my Nintendo Wii on the 19th and that does have an SD card slot. On Thanksgiving my entire family really enjoyed looking at pictures stored on my cameras SD card displayed from my Wii to the TV. It's much nicer looking at digital pictures on a big TV than a small computer monitor. I'm looking forward to the HR20 being able to get pictures right from my own computer, especially since it will probably be able to display them at a higher resolution than the 480p my Nintendo Wii supports.



psubill78 said:


> The HR20 page on DTV's site has been updated:
> 
> "ATSC tuner functionality for viewing digital and HD broadcasts received from an off-air antenna will not be available until later this year. A software download will be pushed to the HR20 via the satellite before the end of the year to enable this functionality"
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Took some searching through all that tiny text at the bottom to get to the sentence you quoted.


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## Dave_S (Jan 7, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> Google toad in the the mirror without the d


TOA's extensive line of audio products includes amplifiers, speakers, mixers, wireless microphone systems, digital processors and network audio. Security products include CCTV cameras, *DVR's* and integrated intercom systems used in security and communications applications


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Dave_S said:


> TOA's extensive line of audio products includes amplifiers, speakers, mixers, wireless microphone systems, digital processors and network audio. Security products include CCTV cameras, *DVR's* and integrated intercom systems used in security and communications applications


My mistake - unjumble the letters. :lol:

It was too early for me.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But there are a lot of people that "would" use that feature.
> Some people don't have memory slots in their TV's for the pictures...
> Or want to buy a docking bay for the IPOD's
> 
> ...


Hey, I've got nothing against anyone who considers those features to be "killer apps" for the HR20. I'll admit that I don't, partially because my TV has a USB port for watching pictures or listening to MP3s. I also have a front panel audio input into my receiver. I don't try to antagonize anyone around here, I'll admit I had a weak moment.

That being said though, I would still prefer any new features of the HR20 to be more focused on the core functionality of the product.


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## S. DiThomas (Oct 8, 2006)

Pardon my expression but WTH?

Don't people realize you can connect an IPOD with the proper cable or a digital camera with the proper cable to any TV usually using composite or SVHS cables to display digital photos? 

Is the HR20 going to be able to upconvert photos from a computer via an ethernet connection to the same computer to HD quality or resolution? Play videos from an attached video i-pod on the TV through the HR20?

This feature seems of very limited value to me (one who uses my digital camera with the supplied TV connection cables and my photo i-pod with the same cables). Am I missing something?

Heck if people can't figure out how to turn CC on or off with one button on the remote how in the H E double hockey sticks are they going to figure out how to network the HR20 and their Packard Bell computer and set up folder sharing options? Oh my gosh the calls to tech support... !rolling

Ok .... :backtotop


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

S. DiThomas said:


> Pardon my expression but WTH?
> 
> Don't people realize you can connect an IPOD with the proper cable or a digital camera with the proper cable to any TV usually using composite or SVHS cables to display digital photos?
> 
> ...


But here is the flip side to that...

Yes, you can hook up those devices... and I would expect most of "here" would know how to do that.

But... I right now have nearly 18gb of Digital photos on my PC... and my entire audio library (another 30gb or so) on the hard drive as well.

Directly linking that with a device that is already hooked to my TV/Stereo... vs... the family sitting around waiting to see the new pictures and runnign around... where the heck is that cable...

The feature is not for everyone, just like Ipod is not for everyone..


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But here is the flip side to that...
> 
> Yes, you can hook up those devices... and I would expect most of "here" would know how to do that.
> 
> ...


I have my photos (not to concerned) and music on a file server in my house too. would love to play them thru HR20. Could get rid of my BIG 200 disk changer then.


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## S. DiThomas (Oct 8, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But here is the flip side to that...
> 
> Yes, you can hook up those devices... and I would expect most of "here" would know how to do that.
> 
> ...


Good point. I suppose if you have multiple computers and more than one photo folder on each you can access them. And heck. I totally forgot about the >1GB issue. That may be a pretty cool feature. My wife, now that I think about it... would probably love it.

Besides where else is she going to have a 50+ inch screen to make fun of my smile :HappyGree except in the family room during holiday parties. I do agree, however, that the core features need to work (MPEG-4 recording for one) before we go off on these tangents.


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## iacas (Nov 18, 2006)

mgcsooner said:


> If I had a toad handy could I use it to spell one of them?


If I had a spelling toad, would I be able to make millions of dollars?


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

iacas said:


> If I had a spelling toad, would I be able to make millions of dollars?


I have one. Here's a pic of him. I'm still poor.


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