# Installer told me something interesting



## laxcoach (Dec 7, 2005)

I had DTV install a new HD dish on my roof today. I have 2 R15s, a UTV, and I recently got HR10-250.

After they were done, one told me I could use a "power pass splitter" to split a single feed into two for the R15s.

I didn't believe him, but he swore by it. He claimed as long as the R15s have the latest software, and you don't use a powered multiswitch, then it will work. 

He gave me one and said to try it, but he thought my multiswitch would keep it from working.

It didn't work, and I don't really believe it would. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this? I did some research, and the only way I could see it working is if the polarity signals were stacked and the receiver could deal with a stacked signal.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

No, it won't work. It is against the fundementals of the current DBS technology.

One wire, can only carry one of the 5 (or is it 6 now) signals. 
Each one of the signals only carries a part of the overall DirecTV signal.

So if the 1st tuner wants a channel that is on one of them, and the 2nd tuner wants a channel that is on another.....

Just doesn't work. Based on the current technology, it simply will not work.

Stacked signals work by shifting one of the sets of signals to a different frequency in the cable. But ultimately after you leave the destacker, you only have 1 of the signals.


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## laxcoach (Dec 7, 2005)

That is exactly what I thought, but he insisted. He also insisted that it only worked only on the R15 and with the latest update.

Like I said, the only thing that made sense to me was that they are using a new LNB and the R15 can handle a stacked signal.


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## Jon Spackman (Feb 7, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> No, it won't work. It is against the fundementals of the current DBS technology.
> 
> One wire, can only carry one of the 5 (or is it 6 now) signals.
> Each one of the signals only carries a part of the overall DirecTV signal.
> ...


So how do you explain E*s Dish Pro Plus technology? Is it agains the fundamentals of current DBS tech? It can be done, what you mean to say is D* isnt doing it yet.....


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Well, of course Dish Pro Plus is a stacker/destacker (a technology I once thought I'd invented around eight years ago before I realized it was already done ).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Well, of course Dish Pro Plus is a stacker/destacker.


Ding Ding...


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## stupid0g (Nov 25, 2005)

the reason he said it would work on the r-15 is because the r-15 has the ability to determine which tuner is receiving a signal and can swap that tuner to the primary feed. no "known" splitter will enable you to split 1 cable to 2 independent feeds as far as dbs tech goes for the simple fact the signal is transmitted via a 13v signal and a 18v signal, and your standard splitter usually tends to split that into 1 13v and 1 18v signal to each wire


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## dnsc_installer (Sep 11, 2004)

in a nutshell, dish network is using bandstacked technology and DTV isn't


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## stupid0g (Nov 25, 2005)

pretty much, the only time dtv uses bandstacking is on multi-dwelling unit accounts, on in some rv's in rare cases


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

stupid0g said:


> the reason he said it would work on the r-15 is because the r-15 has the ability to determine which tuner is receiving a signal and can swap that tuner to the primary feed. no "known" splitter will enable you to split 1 cable to 2 independent feeds as far as dbs tech goes for the simple fact the signal is transmitted via a 13v signal and a 18v signal, and your standard splitter usually tends to split that into 1 13v and 1 18v signal to each wire


Not quite. The 13v and 18v signals are used to select the odd or even TPs from the LNB. So by using a splitter, both outputs will have either the odd or the even TPs. It just depends on which is dominant.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Ding Ding...


Earl, I was reviewing old posts and saw this.

Can you explain to a simpleton (me) why the R15 would have a built-in de-stacker, but that the new dishes do not have built-in stacker ability?

It seems this would be a great feature for those needing additonal lines and muti-switches..

Do we think this is the plan? Just curious and why you create functionality at point B but not point A.

Is there other reasons to have the de-stacker?


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## sseong (Mar 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Ding Ding...


More and more I read this forum, I'm confused about my setting at home.

I moved from E* to D* last Jan. Since I already had E* wiring (for Dish Pro: one wire with spliter to have two tuner for my Dish Pro DVR), D* installer used same wiring to hook up my R15.

Since I don't know much of installation technical knowledge, I will just explain what he did.

I have H20 in my living room. and R15 in my master bedroom and two wires coming from roof. One goes into H20 and the other goes to R15.

Splitter which E* installer used didn't work for R15. so D* installer used his own spliter to hook up R15 with my *single* wire.

So far, I have no problem watching dual tuners and recording two shows at once...

All forums here said this is impossible but this technician actually did something. Since I never went up to roof to see if he used stacker or multiswitch, I don't know exactly what magic this guy did to work single wire for dual tuner 

In H20, I set as 4x4 or 4x6 multiswitch (whatever is default) and that's all I know...

Can anyone explain to me why I have no problem with this setting? or is it really wrong setup?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

A couple reasons:

1) There is a LARGE customer base in MDU's (Condo's, Apartments, ect) The VAST majority of those structures that offer DirecTV, piggie back it onto their existing Cable-Co infrustructure (aka only one cable to each area).... Those are stacked signals for the 101.

Thus including a destacker knocks off about $60-100 off the cost of ownership for those types of users.

2) In the update from earlier this year, some technology was shown that would get us down to 1 cable ... but there hasn't been many details listed on how/what that would entail.

But my bet is is 80% for #1 to help the MDU's



mikewolf13 said:


> Earl, I was reviewing old posts and saw this.
> 
> Can you explain to a simpleton (me) why the R15 would have a built-in de-stacker, but that the new dishes do not have built-in stacker ability?
> 
> ...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

sseong said:


> More and more I read this forum, I'm confused about my setting at home.
> 
> I moved from E* to D* last Jan. Since I already had E* wiring (for Dish Pro: one wire with spliter to have two tuner for my Dish Pro DVR), D* installer used same wiring to hook up my R15.
> 
> ...


Short of a Stacker being installed.... you have a bad setup, that will eventually fail.

You may have just been extremely lucky that all your channels have been on the same polarity.

Try to record something on Channel 231 (Food Network) and Channel 242 (USA) at the same time, they are two different polarities.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I thought if you stacked the signal from the dish, then split it with a powered, high frequency splitter then ran each into the R15 and told it, it had stacked lnb's it would work ok.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dodge boy said:


> I thought if you stacked the signal from the dish, then split it with a powered, high frequency splitter then ran each into the R15 and told it, it had stacked lnb's it would work ok.


Yes it will..

But the trick there is that it HAS to be a stacked signal.
So if that installer didn't intsall a stacker (Which is a $150+ part).....


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## danpedraza (Sep 16, 2004)

any stackers on ebay?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

danpedraza said:


> any stackers on ebay?


I bought one for $40 on ebay, haven't installed it yet as I am stuck out in Cali and for a month (only one full week left).


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I bought one for $40 on ebay, haven't installed it yet as I am stuck out in Cali and for a month (only one full week left).


Is THIS like what you got?

No association or endorsement from me, just curious.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ApK said:


> Is THIS like what you got?
> 
> No association or endorsement from me, just curious.


I'm not 100% sure as it's not in front of me and I can't get to my ebay account right now. I will look when I get to my hotel though. I know the one I got was one that people here where saying to look for. If it is that one is there something wrong?


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> If it is that one is there something wrong?


I'd have no idea, I just looked it up because I was curious, and posted it in case someone else wanted to see what you were talking about.
And if it IS the one you have, and you say it works, someone else might want one!

ApK


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok I looked on my ebay account once I got to the hotel and that is the one I got. I won't know if it works until next weekend though as I am still out of town. On a side note of that HOW far away can the power line be? There is not decent way to get power to where this thing needs to go.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

So this leads me to a question. If a single piece of coax CAN carry all the channels with a stacked signal, then why isn't this just the way they've done it all along? What's with the needing two cables in the first place?

PS: I think I'll just take this post as yet another opportunity to tell any DTV people watching how disgusted I am with this 10b8 relase. We're missing the beginning and end of shows now thanks to them making the 5 minute warning problem even worse.

If you can't fix it, roll me back to the last version. I don't need a freaking XM screen saver or 30 second slip if shows don;t record and if the box can't stay working. What are you guys thinking?


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## kc1ih (May 22, 2004)

ApK said:


> So this leads me to a question. If a single piece of coax CAN carry all the channels with a stacked signal, then why isn't this just the way they've done it all along? What's with the needing two cables in the first place?


You need two cables because not only does the cable carry the signal, it also carries control voltages to tell which LNB what polarity each tuner needs. If one tuner needs a horizontally polarized signal for the channel it is tuned to, and the other one a vertically polarized signal, there's no way a single cable can do that.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

kc1ih said:


> You need two cables because not only does the cable carry the signal, it also carries control voltages to tell which LNB what polarity each tuner needs. If one tuner needs a horizontally polarized signal for the channel it is tuned to, and the other one a vertically polarized signal, there's no way a single cable can do that.


That's what the stacker/destacker does, isn't it? It puts all the signal needed for two tuners on one cable. Isn't that what this thread is about? That's why I'm asking.


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## Halo (Jan 13, 2006)

ApK said:


> So this leads me to a question. If a single piece of coax CAN carry all the channels with a stacked signal, then why isn't this just the way they've done it all along? What's with the needing two cables in the first place?


It's a good question ApK. 
RG-6 cable has no problem delivering a 1000Mhz signal a pretty long distance (which is the bandwidth required to stack both odd and even transponders from the 101 sat on one wire). Maybe there was some technical challenge back when this system was designed? Maybe they wanted it to work reliably even with RG-59 cable? I don't know.

The AT-9 dish _does_ have a built in stacker and multiswitch. It puts 1500 Mhz on each wire, for a total of 6000Mhz. How they plan to do the rumored 'one wire solution' with that much data I have no idea. RG-6 can't handle 6000Mhz for any real distance.


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