# Directv-12 Launch Info



## DIRECTV-12 (Mar 18, 2008)

Figured I would start this one myself.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Is there something we don't know, D12? I got really excited when I saw this thread!!


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

mmmmmmmmm.......OK.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

He is lonely sitting in a dark warehouse. Maybe a little jealous about his brother D11 getting all the attention.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

In due time.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

You conniving, double dog dirty, good for nothing, name dropping tease, DIRECTV-12!!! :grrr: 







Good one. :righton:


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

DIRECTV-12 said:


> Figured I would start this one myself.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Are you all done? Just waiting for launch date? And a location in orbit?

Or you'll need to be tweaked depending on the orbit location?

Nice talking directly to a satellite


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

lwilli201 said:


> He is lonely sitting in a dark warehouse. Maybe a little jealous about his brother D11 getting all the attention.


You bet. He's stuck in a crate or wrapped in plastic, tighter than a condom on Johnny Wadd. No power, no attention, nobody cares.

I see somebody who need a hug.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

:group: 

Group hug.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Odds on Sea Launch... ? I'm guessing 3:1


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Odds on Sea Launch... ? I'm guessing 3:1


I thought it was a lock


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

curt8403 Quote: Originally Posted by inkahauts Odds on Sea Launch... ? I'm guessing 3:1 I thought it was a lock



It's nominal.


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## Supervolcano (Jan 23, 2007)

DIRECTV-12 said:


> Figured I would start this one myself.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Have they decided where your going to be parked in space?

Is 3rd quarter of 2009 still your target launch date?

Which company is supposed to launch you?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Oy. I predicted there would be a D-12 anticipation thread! 

In the post [post=1508109]1508109[/post]:


Drew2k said:


> DIRECTV-12 said:
> 
> 
> > GODSPEED Brother D11. We will all be watching your rise this afternoon with great expectations of success.
> ...


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## jlancaster (Feb 10, 2006)

One full year of "before launch" data to digest.....Goood Lord!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The over/under on this thread either dying or being closed is about a week...

Cheers,
Tom


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> The over/under on this thread either dying or being closed is about a week...
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Thank you! I don't think I would keep my wits about me trying to pick factual information from anticipatory posts in a thread that could live for a year before anything meaningful occurs!!!! :up:


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Actually, I think we could probably have more interesting, compelling, and fact finding/divelguing info in this thread for the next year than the DLB thread has had going on for the last year!!!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Actually, I think we could probably have more interesting, compelling, and fact finding/divelguing info in this thread for the next year than the DLB thread has had going on for the last year!!!


Interesting thought. But I don't think I want to test that theory...


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## davidjplatt (Sep 22, 2007)

I really don't understand all of the speculation here. Right now DirecTV 12 is designated as a ground spare for D10 and D11. Until they state that they are going to launch D12 while D10 and D11 are up there, it's a ground spare - period.

I can't imagine them putting out all of the MPEG4 HD equipment they have and will in the near future and then putting up a satellite and not having a spare for such a high profile part of their service offering.

On top of that, D12 won't be finished for at least a year. They are vulnerable now if D10 went kaput or D11 went kaput. When D12 is finished, they might decide to put it up there if they start building another one before D12 is complete. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on D12 doing up in the near future.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

D12 has been announced as being launched in late 2009 at an investors day meeting. We don't know the orbital slot, the launcher, nor the intended use. We just know it will be flying about 18 months from now.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

davidjplatt said:


> I really don't understand all of the speculation here. Right now DirecTV 12 is designated as a ground spare for D10 and D11. Until they state that they are going to launch D12 while D10 and D11 are up there, it's a ground spare - period.
> 
> I can't imagine them putting out all of the MPEG4 HD equipment they have and will in the near future and then putting up a satellite and not having a spare for such a high profile part of their service offering.
> 
> On top of that, D12 won't be finished for at least a year. They are vulnerable now if D10 went kaput or D11 went kaput. When D12 is finished, they might decide to put it up there if they start building another one before D12 is complete. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on D12 doing up in the near future.


So what are you trying to say?.That D12 isn't already built?.Think it is,also if DirecTV needs a spare?.There's already one up there,9s.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

davidjplatt said:


> I really don't understand all of the speculation here ...


Investor Meeting - February 28, 2008

Technology Update - Rômulo Pontual, Executive Vice President & Chief Technology Officer

Page-34 (of 153) within Presentation:


Will launch D12
Growing importance of HD warrants its use to expand national capacity
Launch expected late 2009


Was going to add the link to the presentation from the web-site but the current presentation on the web-site doesn't exactly match the presentation downloaded on 2/28/2008.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> The over/under on this thread either dying or being closed is about a week...
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Unless "DIRECTV-12" is a lot more forthcoming with insider information beyond this little ducking in and out after dropping a humorous tidbit (which he probably cannot due to heavy NDA restrictions even if he knew). I agree it will be a relatively short lived thread.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

During the Launch of D11, the Directv guy (forgot his name) noted that they will be launching D12 next year and it will give them the capacity to have 200 national HD channels +.....

And the only reason D12 was ever called a spare is because of the chance of D10 or D11 failing to make geo orbit. I don't believe that Directv ever anticipated D12 not being launched, but its a whole lot easier to call it a spare and not set an expectation of it going up in case something did happen, because then people would be saying they can't reach there goals, where as now everyone is saying that they are hitting their mark, and are going to be adding to that even more next year....

And I believe that all the sats have a spare transponder or two, some more than others, in case one sat goes down so that they can transfer loads if neccessary. As I recall, Tom correct me if I'm not, they are currently using one spare transponder on D10 right now, which I anticipate being turned off when they move some of the load to D11....

And could you please show me something that say D12 isn't already built? All three were commisioned to be built at the same time and I believe they were all built at the same time as well. If D10 or D11 hadn't made it, D12 would have been ready for launch a lot faster than they would be able to find a launcher...


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> During the Launch of D11, the Directv guy (forgot his name) noted that they will be launching D12 next year and it will give them the capacity to have 200 national HD channels +.....
> 
> And the only reason D12 was ever called a spare is because of the chance of D10 or D11 failing to make geo orbit. I don't believe that Directv ever anticipated D12 not being launched, but its a whole lot easier to call it a spare and not set an expectation of it going up in case something did happen, because then people would be saying they can't reach there goals, where as now everyone is saying that they are hitting their mark, and are going to be adding to that even more next year....
> 
> ...


I just wonder if "Phil Goswitz," V.P. of Space and Communications DIRECTV ("the DirecTV guy") during that interview with Sea Launch was really aware of the techinical issues involved in launching D12, and not making a simple addition of HD channel capacity on top of that provided by D11 joining the fleet.

I mean, does he know of the plan (if any) on how to integrate another Ka B-band satellite amongst D10 and D11? Otherwise I see D12 as just going from a ground spare to an in orbit spare.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I just wonder if "Phil Goswitz," V.P. of Space and Communications DIRECTV ("the DirecTV guy") during that interview with Sea Launch was really aware of the techinical issues involved in launching D12, and not making a simple addition of HD channel capacity on top of that provided by D11 joining the fleet.
> 
> I mean, does he know of the plan (if any) on how to integrate another Ka B-band satellite amongst D10 and D11? Otherwise I see D12 as just going from a ground spare to an in orbit spare.


You could very easily be correct about it being utilized more as an in orbit spare for conus, however, I would imagine that at the very least they would fire up its spot beams to allow more coverage in more outlying DMAs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they point the spot beams correctly between all these sats, they should be able to keep adding spot beams until they are using every ounce of bandwidth for every market in the country, right?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

HoTat2 said:


> I just wonder if "Phil Goswitz," V.P. of Space and Communications DIRECTV ("the DirecTV guy") during that interview with Sea Launch was really aware of the techinical issues involved in launching D12, and not making a simple addition of HD channel capacity on top of that provided by D11 joining the fleet.
> 
> I mean, does he know of the plan (if any) on how to integrate another Ka B-band satellite amongst D10 and D11? Otherwise I see D12 as just going from a ground spare to an in orbit spare.


Phil is not just a handsome face. 

He knows.


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## MarkN (Jul 13, 2007)

DIRECTV-12 said:


> Figured I would start this one myself.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


new members....gotta love 'em!!


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

DIRECTV-12 said:


> Figured I would start this one myself.
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Whoa! Welcome DirecTV-12...

You are a poster after my own heart, starting your _own_ thread with tones of anticipation, very rightious dude!


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I think its a little too early to start the D12 discussion. ;-)

By the time it goes up, we'll be at post 100,000 at this rate on the thread.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

n3ntj said:


> I think its a little too early to start the D12 discussion. ;-)
> 
> By the time it goes up, we'll be at post 100,000 at this rate on the thread.


I'd rather see that than the 3 page thread we have going on now about a why Directv doesn't have a clock on the front of their receivers!!!


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## RobertSeattle (Aug 27, 2006)

Or chicken out and go to D14?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

RobertSeattle said:


> Or chicken out and go to D14?


They had one planned, but seem to have put it on hold for the moment.... Maybe now we know the real reason.... :lol:


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## quickfire (Nov 14, 2003)

You know.....what amazes me is back around 2002 or 2003.....I remember people on this forum saying that satellite couldn't compete with cable when it came to HD channels.............if I remember correctly everybody assumed that Dish & DirecTv were not able to launch anymore satellites becuse of some Goverment law....

AND NOW LOOK AT US  my goodness DirecTv is the leader in HDTV offerings and and were talking about a back-up satellite......

MONEY TALKS AND BU**SH*T WALKS!!!


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## aleicgrant (Sep 26, 2007)

http://boeingmedia.com/imageDetail.cfm?id=15127&clr=release


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

^^^

Welcome to last week - that story is dated March 20th and is well discussed here already. But thanks for sharing!


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## bhelton71 (Mar 8, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I'd rather see that than the 3 page thread we have going on now about a why Directv doesn't have a clock on the front of their receivers!!!


I didn't believe you but I have found the thread and seen it with my own eyes. 
And its 4 pages now.


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## spectrumsp (Aug 30, 2006)

From a business standpoint, I would think that the earlier DTV get 12 up in orbit the better:

The earlier you launch, the cheaper.

It's not making any money sitting on the ground.

In orbit, as a spare, it can be activated and maneuvered to replace a fallen brother quicker, thus retaining goodwill and minimizing the potential loss of customers.

In orbit, it could be leased to other companies for private broadcasts, expand PPV, or other non-permament broadcasts.

Finally, once the sat is built, they have to pay Boeing or another company to store/maintain the bird in a launchable configuration...in orbit, there are no such fees...

I'm betting they will get 12 up ASAP!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

spectrumsp said:


> From a business standpoint, I would think that the earlier DTV get 12 up in orbit the better:
> 
> The earlier you launch, the cheaper.
> 
> ...


Couple things to remember: 1) DIRECTV set analysts' expectations for end of next year. The analysts can adjust of course, tho the cash flow hit of a launch is not trivial. 
2) No FCC filings have been made. That takes some time to process.

3) (most importantly, I beleive) I don't think DIRECTV could get on a launch calendar before early to middle of next year anyway. If even that early given another launch failure in the industry.

If DIRECTV started on an agressive schedule today for launch ASAP, I bet it would be no earlier than end of this year--if they got lucky with a launcher and pulled serious strings with them. 

Some things to watch for--FCC filings and a launch contract announcement.

Cheers,
Tom


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## jefbal99 (Sep 7, 2007)

With the news that Earl posted in the CE forums about the "Slimline 3" I think its a damn near guaranteed bet that D12 will end up in the 99-103 range


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

As currently configured, there is no other place D12 can go other than somewhere between 99°-103°. DIRECTV has no other Ka licenses. 

Sure as an in-orbit spare it could be somewhere's else--but why? 

Cheers,
Tom


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> As currently configured, there is no other place D12 can go other than somewhere between 99°-103°. DIRECTV has no other Ka licenses.
> 
> Sure as an in-orbit spare it could be somewhere's else--but why?
> 
> ...


Questions:
Can a Ku sat transmit MPEG4 (I think they can)
Could D12 be changed to transmit Ku or is it locked into Ka.
If it could be changed from Ka to Ku would it reduce its overall capacity.
If it could be changed to Ku it could replace the sat at 110 which is Ku and it has little capacity.
And last. Does Directv have enough licensed Ku bandwidth at 110 to handle D12 (if converted to Ku)


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

lwilli201 said:


> Questions:
> Can a Ku sat transmit MPEG4 (I think they can)
> Could D12 be changed to transmit Ku or is it locked into Ka.
> If it could be changed from Ka to Ku would it reduce its overall capacity.
> ...


lwilli, all good questions ... 1 more ... from previous posts, it looks like D12 can only do Ka-Lo, what's required to do Ka-Hi?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Okay, it's official . . . D12 is a tease. :lol:


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Okay, it's official . . . D12 is a tease. :lol:


Was there ever any doubt. :lol:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

lwilli201 said:


> Questions:
> Can a Ku sat transmit MPEG4 (I think they can)
> Could D12 be changed to transmit Ku or is it locked into Ka.
> If it could be changed from Ka to Ku would it reduce its overall capacity.
> ...


Yes, Ku sat can transmit MPEG4, my guess is on a transponder by transponder basis. I don't think they can easily mix MPEG2 and MPEG4 on the same transponder.

Yes, it could but I think that would be a change large enough to alert the investors--that is if it were to move to something other than 101°. Then DIRECTV likely could add/change a few Ku transponders without raising financial issues.

See, D12 at 110, where DIRECTV only has 3 transponder frequencies, all Ku, would service a completely different financial purpose than at 99, 101, or 103. It could make a kickass spotbeam unit, but I think that would be different from expectations on the street (and the investor's day) where we're looking for more HD.

If D12 were completely converted to Ku, I don't think it would reduce its capacity--but wouldn't give us move HD.

As to the other question, can D12 be converted to Ka-lo and Ka-hi both? Yes. Swap out a few transponders, feedhorns, and some guts and I think it would be very possible. I do know that transponders and feedhorns can't be switched in space, not with the current technology. In the future? Who knows?

Cheers,
Tom


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, Ku sat can transmit MPEG4, my guess is on a transponder by transponder basis. I don't think they can easily mix MPEG2 and MPEG4 on the same transponder.
> 
> Yes, it could but I think that would be a change large enough to alert the investors--that is if it were to move to something other than 101°. Then DIRECTV likely could add/change a few Ku transponders without raising financial issues.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tom. I was not sure how much licensed capacity Directv had at 110. Not much it would seem. I read the thread about the new planned dish with only LNBs for 99, 101 and 103, which would be used in markets that do not get SD locals from 119. That would seem to discount putting D12 at 110.

The satellites at 101 are relatively new sats, Directv 4S is only 7 years old and Directv 8 is only 3 years old. D12 as a replacement for one of them would seem out of the question.

Does Directv have a license for any frequencies that D12 could use in the 99, 101 or 103 slots?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes, D12 could be used at 101° without any problem from the licensing--but the current crop of dishes can't receive Ka from 101°.

So I've wondered if DIRECTV could use D12 at 99° or 103° by doubling up spotbeams freeing up space for more conus from D12. Or by keeping D12 as mostly an in space spare, thus freeing up any capacity DIRECTV might have been holding back on D11/D10/S1/S2.

When the FCC filings are made, all will (hopefully) be clear. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, D12 could be used at 101° without any problem from the licensing--but the current crop of dishes can't receive Ka from 101°.
> 
> So I've wondered if DIRECTV could use D12 at 99° or 103° by doubling up spotbeams freeing up space for more conus from D12. Or by keeping D12 as mostly an in space spare, thus freeing up any capacity DIRECTV might have been holding back on D11/D10/S1/S2.
> 
> ...


Doubling up spot beams?? what do you mean by that? I'm a tad bit lost here.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

drx792 said:


> Doubling up spot beams?? what do you mean by that? I'm a tad bit lost here.


Sorry, didn't mean to go quite so shorthand.

You probably know that spotbeams can share the same transponder frequencies as other spotbeams, just so long as they are not adjacent, causing interference. For a moment lets say D10 or D11 (will) uses transponders 12-24 as spotbeams. Part of DIRECTV's requirement when allocated the FCC licenses was a use them or lose them, so DIRECTV generally showed how they would use the entire bandwidth as quickly as possible--then will adjust the usage as more satellites are launched.

With D12 up there, what if D10 only used transponders 20-24 for spotbeams and repeated them more often across the country. And D12 did the same on 20-24 as well. (This all requires the spotbeams to be small enough to fit that many in the country without interference, of course.) 

In this example, that could leave transponders 12-19 available for D12 to use as Nationals.

Note, atypical for me, I didn't research the actual transponder frequencies DIRECTV has filed for D10/D11 in making this example. I pulled numbers out of the air. Please don't requote them as gospel. 

Does that make sense?
Cheers,
Tom


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to go quite so shorthand.
> 
> You probably know that spotbeams can share the same transponder frequencies as other spotbeams, just so long as they are not adjacent, causing interference. For a moment lets say D10 or D11 (will) uses transponders 12-24 as spotbeams. Part of DIRECTV's requirement when allocated the FCC licenses was a use them or lose them, so DIRECTV generally showed how they would use the entire bandwidth as quickly as possible--then will adjust the usage as more satellites are launched.
> 
> ...


ohhh i get it! thanks for that clarification...

but in order to do that wouldnt they need to plan a lot in advance?? I thought a spotbeam transponder could only be used for a spotbeam, so theyd need to cahnge some of D12's insides.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

drx792 said:


> ohhh i get it! thanks for that clarification...
> 
> but in order to do that wouldnt they need to plan a lot in advance?? I thought a spotbeam transponder could only be used for a spotbeam, so theyd need to cahnge some of D12's insides.


Yes, a spotbeam transponder (as far as I know) can only be used as a spotbeam transponder. Recall that D10/D11/and D12 have a large number of both spotbeams and National transponders. So they shouldn't have to rework D12 for the example I gave.

And yes, LOTS of very careful planning and modeling is required. No doubt about that. 

(But--as I have said before, if they try to move any of D12's transponders to the other Ka band, that would require re-work on the ground.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

That makes perfect sense. Thanks again for clearing this stuff up for me!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

You're very welcome (applies to everyone, actually.) 

Thankfully DIRECTV uses very, very good FCC lawyers who have stuck to a very consistent overall format for many years. Made things much easier to puzzle out (and fewer head hurting sessions...)


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to go quite so shorthand.
> 
> You probably know that spotbeams can share the same transponder frequencies as other spotbeams, just so long as they are not adjacent, causing interference. For a moment lets say D10 or D11 (will) uses transponders 12-24 as spotbeams. Part of DIRECTV's requirement when allocated the FCC licenses was a use them or lose them, so DIRECTV generally showed how they would use the entire bandwidth as quickly as possible--then will adjust the usage as more satellites are launched.
> 
> ...


Tom,

Wouldn't this also allow Directv to have more actual spotbeams in play, allowing them to have more LIL channels available?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Tom,
> 
> Wouldn't this also allow Directv to have more actual spotbeams in play, allowing them to have more LIL channels available?


Yes, if the D12 part of my example is true (where D12's spotbeams also shared transponder frequencies with D10.)

Cheers,
Tom


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, if the D12 part of my example is true (where D12's spotbeams also shared transponder frequencies with D10.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Hey Tom, what would happen if the D12 was converted to standard KA (If such a thing exists) and parked at 101,


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Ka or Ku? It is a standard Ka-lo satellite right now. 

I really don't see any benefit to DIRECTV completely redoing D12 as a Ku, it seems like a major, expensive rework to supply services that are very well served by D4s, D8, and D9s; all relatively recent satellites.

As for Ka at 101°, only if new dishes are released that have a Ka LNB at 101°. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Ka or Ku? It is a standard Ka-lo satellite right now.
> 
> I really don't see any benefit to DIRECTV completely redoing D12 as a Ku, it seems like a major, expensive rework to supply services that are very well served by D4s, D8, and D9s; all relatively recent satellites.
> 
> ...


I was referring to KA but with a linear polarity rather than a circular. that theoretically should allow broadcast from 101 without bothering 99 and 103


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The 2° spacing already permits minimal interference from the Ka bands. (GE even suggested moving the Ka satellites to 1° spacing!) So I don't think DIRECTV will need to switch polarity technologies.

At this point, I start to leave my knowledge space. While I'm familiar with both linear and circular polarization, I do not know the advantages or disadvantages of either. (Wiki here I come...)

Cheers,
Tom


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> The 2° spacing already permits minimal interference from the Ka bands. (GE even suggested moving the Ka satellites to 1° spacing!) So I don't think DIRECTV will need to switch polarity technologies.
> 
> At this point, I start to leave my knowledge space. While I'm familiar with both linear and circular polarization, I do not know the advantages or disadvantages of either. (Wiki here I come...)
> 
> ...


since there is NO Linear KA, one would have to say April Fools.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

curt8403 said:


> since there is NO Linear KA, one would have to say April Fools.


Au contraire, linear Ka is permissable. Just because no one uses it (that I know of), doesn't make it forbidden.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Au contraire, linear Ka is permissable. Just because no one uses it (that I know of), doesn't make it forbidden.


Linear Ka is Radar, as in police radar guns and other tracking radars


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Different frequency range than the DBS frequencies.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

I love it when RF geeks start arguing . . . :lol:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

LameLefty said:


> I love it when RF geeks start arguing . . . :lol:


Is it like when Orbital Mechanics argue?


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, D12 could be used at 101° without any problem from the licensing--but the current crop of dishes can't receive Ka from 101°.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I would think that where D12 will go has been planned for some years. If 101 is in the plan for its location, why did they design a dish that would not work at that position. This would seem to reinforce your belief that it will go to 99 or 103. The capabilities of the next generation dishes, and yes, Directv FCC filings will tell us more.

If Ka capabilities are added to the 101 LNB, D12 could be moved to 101 at some time in the future. If I read your explanation of the capabilities of D12 at 99 or 103, it could not operate at its full capabilities, where it could at 101.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> I would think that where D12 will go has been planned for some years. If 101 is in the plan for its location, why did they design a dish that would not work at that position. This would seem to reinforce your belief that it will go to 99 or 103. The capabilities of the next generation dishes, and yes, Directv FCC filings will tell us more.
> 
> If Ka capabilities are added to the 101 LNB, D12 could be moved to 101 at some time in the future. If I read your explanation of the capabilities of D12 at 99 or 103, it could not operate at its full capabilities, where it could at 101.


I thought the 99/101/103 lnb worked kinda like this..

* /)
0 - )
* \)

so a KA at 101 would bounce straight in and the 103 and 99 angle to cross just beyond the lnb.


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

curt8403 said:


> I thought the 99/101/103 lnb worked kinda like this..
> 
> * /)
> 0 - )
> ...


From what I understand the 101 LNB on the current dishes are not capable of receiving Ka signals. Only Ku.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Is it like when Orbital Mechanics argue?


Yep, pretty much. In both cases, the math is the ultimate judge of "right."


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

lwilli201 said:


> From what I understand the 101 LNB on the current dishes are not capable of receiving Ka signals. Only Ku.


the sensor for KA is in the lnb for the 103 / 99 and would be flat (perpendicular) to the wave guide, so should be able got KA from 101

I have not torn one apart to be sure


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## Interceptor (Jul 20, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Is it like when Orbital Mechanics argue?


Yeah, but I think they only have one argument. The argument of perigee...:lol:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

curt8403 said:


> the sensor for KA is in the lnb for the 103 / 99 and would be flat (perpendicular) to the wave guide, so should be able got KA from 101
> 
> I have not torn one apart to be sure


Thankfully D0ug has and taken most excellent pictures: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=107548

There are separate LNBs for each of the orbital positions, not a singular sensor as I think you seem to suggest. And the waveguide at 101° is pretty clearly Ku only.

Cheers,
Tom


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> Thankfully D0ug has and taken most excellent pictures: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=107548
> 
> There are separate LNBs for each of the orbital positions, not a singular sensor as I think you seem to suggest. And the waveguide at 101° is pretty clearly Ku only.
> 
> ...


hmm right you are. 3 lnbs bunched together. so 101 will not handle KU, shame, as that would be soo cool


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

lwilli201 said:


> If I read your explanation of the capabilities of D12 at 99 or 103, it could not operate at its full capabilities, where it could at 101.


Actually, The way I read Toms theory, it could not only work at 99 or 103, but would probably be able to be fully utilized... Also, there is one other possibility that no one has mentioned. Would it be more prudent for Directv to make some other moves and do something like this...

at 99 have spaceway 1, spaceway 2, and D11

and then at 103 have D10 and D12...

Would that allow for better utilization of their frequencies, knowing that the spotbeams on the Spaceways can be made to be extremely small, and there for those 2 units could supply a huge amount of spots from one location without affecting how much bandwidth they are using now, and freeing up enough bandwidth for a full compliment of conus as well as spotbeams for a D10 and D12 combination?

I love speculating with out any real facts to back up my assumptions!?!?! I do it so rarely... Its the throw it against the wall and see what happens theory I'm using...


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## lwilli201 (Dec 22, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Actually, The way I read Toms theory, it could not only work at 99 or 103, but would probably be able to be fully utilized... Also, there is one other possibility that no one has mentioned. Would it be more prudent for Directv to make some other moves and do something like this...
> 
> at 99 have spaceway 1, spaceway 2, and D11
> 
> ...


The problem I see with putting S1 and S2 together is that it would be almost impossible to integrate the two spot beam patterns without there being an overlap problem with like frequency ranges. There would have to be major reallocation of spot beam frequencies that probably could not be done on the run.


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## Geekzilla (Jun 10, 2007)

I recall some talk of the newer KA sats (D10&11, and maybe SW1&2) communicating with each other while in orbit. Perhaps D-12 will serve as a dedicated uplink sat. D-12 could then distribute those signals to the other KA sats, thereby freeing up capacity on the broadcasting sats?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Geekzilla said:


> I recall some talk of the newer KA sats (D10&11, and maybe SW1&2) communicating with each other while in orbit. Perhaps D-12 will serve as a dedicated uplink sat. D-12 could then distribute those signals to the other KA sats, thereby freeing up capacity on the broadcasting sats?


While that was the original Hughes network systems plans for S1/S2/S3 (and the rest of their constellation), those technologies and frequencies were removed from the final request to the FCC.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> I love it when RF geeks start arguing . . . :lol:





Tom Robertson said:


> Is it like when Orbital Mechanics argue?


Remember: When two elephants fight, it's always the grass that suffers.

:icon_peac


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