# That 30 second 'skip' trick? (slip stinks!)



## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

I saw this in an earlier post...

*While playing back a program (so the channel doesn't change)
Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select - Changes the "forward to next tick mark" function to 30 second skip. You can still use the skip to next tick mark function by using the fast-forward or reverse function.*

Is this for the HR20? How does it work (what button do you push).. I can't seem to get this tip to work. Don't like the slow 30 sec slip button!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

No that is for the TiVo powered units.

The 30 Second slip is what there is on the DVR+ series.
And from discussions... there are no intentions to introduce an actual fixed length "skip" feature.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

If they were cool, they'd slip it in like Tivo did. But I really don't expect DirecTV to do anything cool like that.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

OK.. So how come DISH can 'skip' 30 seconds with each button press and DIRECT has to 'slip'....?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I don't understand how "skip" is better.

I'd rather see the show go by at fast speed. Half the time I overestimate the length of the break and overshoot it, and at least if I can see what's going on, I know how far back to go.


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## samfrus (May 22, 2006)

How do u turn this feature off or back to normal on the tivo unit?


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

There's nothing to turn off on the HR20.


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## k0rww (Aug 20, 2006)

samfrus said:


> How do u turn this feature off or back to normal on the tivo unit?


Turn the TIVO off and back on.

Richard


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## LSUMBA (Feb 6, 2006)

samfrus said:


> How do u turn this feature off or back to normal on the tivo unit?


Repeat the steps. Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select. The first time you do it, it turns it on. The next time turns it off. And so on.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Slyster said:


> OK.. So how come DISH can 'skip' 30 seconds with each button press and DIRECT has to 'slip'....?


And Dish just lost a multi million dollar lawsuit against Tivo because they violated Tivo patents. Hmmmm....


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> And Dish just lost a multi million dollar lawsuit against Tivo because they violated Tivo patents. Hmmmm....


30 second skip is not a Tivo patent.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> 30 second skip is not a Tivo patent.


It's also not an "official" feature either.
There is a reason why it is a backdoor code, and not listed on their website nor manual.


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## gbwtfo (Sep 1, 2006)

Technicalities aside, I agree with the poster: Slip stinks. It intentionally impedes the DVR experience, which only serves to irritate me as well as give me a headache as it's difficult not to watch the bits and pieces go by (for the same reason I am not amused by any video that quickly changes scenes, not doubt for "artistic" effect). So, what takes only a few seconds on the Tivo to skip past the commericials and perhaps back up a bit, now takes a painful, epileptic inducing two/three/four seconds per invocation (typically a good 15+ seconds in total, probably more as I haven't actually sat down and timed it).

Heck, I'd pay another $10/month for some sort of anti-commercial technology built into the DVR, perhaps one that would actually eliminate the blanked out segments from the final recording, thereby conserving space on this woefully undersized disk that comes with the HR20.

Well, a guy can still dream, can't he?


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

Slyster said:


> OK.. So how come DISH can 'skip' 30 seconds with each button press and DIRECT has to 'slip'....?


I'm willing to bet it has to do with $$$ :lol:


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## ericlovestivo (Aug 31, 2006)

Slipping stinks for football. TiVo will take you 30 sec ahead immediately, which will pretty much take you to the beginning of the next play. The HR20 will spend about 5 sec getting you to that end of that 30 sec period, just after the play has already started.

Isn't it sad what we complain about?!


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## DustB (Sep 13, 2006)

Is it really that big of a deal to use FF instead of 30-sec skip/slip?
I never used the skip feature on Tivo.
Just use FFx3, then jump back a little w/ one or two replay presses.
(Auto-correct IS a Tivo patent, and I miss that more than the 30 second skip feature)

I guess it's just whatever you are most accustomed to using - I found the "skip" button to be more useful for getting to "ticks" and to the beginning and end of buffers than skipping forward 30 seconds when FF can do that.

But that's the beauty of Tivo I guess - options. To each their own.


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## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

I with it was like the Replay 30 sec skip. Hit the button and BOOM...you're 30 seconds ahead. One other thing I miss is the ability to press 4-SKIP on the replay and you're 4 minutes ahead.

Speaking of, is there any way to start at the beginning of a recorded show after you've already started watching it?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ericlovestivo said:


> Slipping stinks for football. TiVo will take you 30 sec ahead immediately, which will pretty much take you to the beginning of the next play. The HR20 will spend about 5 sec getting you to that end of that 30 sec period, just after the play has already started.
> 
> Isn't it sad what we complain about?!


Actually... I found it GREAT for football this weekend.
You can hit that 30s slip, and pretty much go from the end of one play to the start of the next.

But with it slipping, I am not missing anything.....

Obviously depending on the team, and the momemt of the game, it might not work like that.... but to each their own.

You should have tried the R15 with NEITHER skip nor slip.

SKIP isn't comming... You can almost take that to the bank.
SLIP will be improved to be as quick as it is on the R15, and a little smoother.


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## bagleyb (Sep 14, 2006)

gbwtfo said:


> Heck, I'd pay another $10/month for some sort of anti-commercial technology built into the DVR, perhaps one that would actually eliminate the blanked out segments from the final recording, thereby conserving space on this woefully undersized disk that comes with the HR20.
> 
> Well, a guy can still dream, can't he?


I saw an article the other day where FX is going to start broadcasting commercials for their show with a 30 second static image. There will be audio for those not watching on a DVR, but there will be no motion in the image. For those "slipping" thru commercials, you'll still be able to see the image.

I've got a URL, but I don't have enough posts to post a URL yet.

Google FX DVR Commercial and you'll find serveral articles about it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There are a bunch of advertising campaigns that are targetting DVR users.

Go SLOW frame by frame to see the hidden message commercial;
FX's method of a static frame so you see it more...

There are even discussions that commercial "bugs" might start to appear during programs...


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## pyrettablaze (Sep 18, 2006)

ericlovestivo said:


> Slipping stinks for football. TiVo will take you 30 sec ahead immediately, which will pretty much take you to the beginning of the next play. The HR20 will spend about 5 sec getting you to that end of that 30 sec period, just after the play has already started.
> 
> Isn't it sad what we complain about?!


I totally forgot about that! Yea end of play skip 30 and watch the start of the next play. You can really zip through a game like that.


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## pyrettablaze (Sep 18, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There are a bunch of advertising campaigns that are targetting DVR users.
> 
> Go SLOW frame by frame to see the hidden message commercial;
> FX's method of a static frame so you see it more...
> ...


the hidden message thing could be sorta kewl at the begining. I wonder if they will eventually just move the TV show up to the corner and start playing a commercial with no sound in it like many of the stations do with advertising up and coming TV shows.

One thing that really bugs me is the bugs themself. Almost all of the TV logos that are in the corner are non moving and brightly colored. I have to assume that after watching Nick JR enough that I will have a burn in Nick JR logo. I wish something would be done to rid those things from staying on the screen.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The Bugs original purpose was to "burn" into the memory of those people on Neilsen systems, so they remember what channel they where watching.

Now it has just grown into a method of "content" protection. 
(Aka, if you record it from their channel... it is marked as such)

I don't mind some of them that come in for a minute or two at the return from a commercial (especially if they have the time and temp), but the ones that stay up all the time.....


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

In short, content providers want to control what we watch and how we watch it. D* is enabling them by forcing us to _see_ commercials. Like I said a few replies up...it's all about the cash.

Even knowing that I'm still getting a HR20 since I know I'll have to make the change eventually. Oh and I don't expect the _feature_ to change. In fact, I expect it to get worse as stations push harder on cable and satellite companies about customers and commercials.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Drunk Wex said:


> In short, content providers want to control what we watch and how we watch it. D* is enabling them by forcing us to _see_ commercials. Like I said a few replies up...it's all about the cash.
> 
> Even knowing that I'm still getting a HR20 since I know I'll have to make the change eventually. Oh and I don't expect the _feature_ to change. In fact, I expect it to get worse as stations push harder on cable and satellite companies about customers and commercials.


You all do realize that those "commercials" are what pays the multi million dollars it takes to film those shows we like...

Even though we "pay" DirecTV for our TV service... that is partially for distribution costs, and then some for the content.... but ultimately... the "entire" TV model is based on advertising revenue... even the "pay" movie channels have commercials now (they are just in between the programs)

Hence why we have DNS Issues (why the affiiliates won't let you have NY's/LA's feed) Amongst others.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

I am worried that someday.. super short commercials (10-20 sec?)will be randomly placed in all shows often like every 3 to 5 minutes... thus making it worthless to even bother fastforwarding anymore.

That would be a VERY sad day.

... WOULD THEY DARE?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Slyster said:


> I am worried that someday.. super short commercials (10-20 sec?)will be randomly placed in all shows often like every 3 to 5 minutes... thus making it worthless to even bother fastforwarding anymore.
> 
> That would be a VERY sad day.
> 
> ... WOULD THEY DARE?


What do you mean "someday"... some networks are already doing that.

For example last weekend on the replay of the Teen Titans movie (on Saturday)... Most of the commercial brakes where ONE commercial, just enough for 1 slip. It was nearly EXACTLY as you described it... commercials where in there about ever 5 or 10 minutes.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> SLIP will be improved to be as quick as it is on the R15, and a little smoother.


You mean its slower than how slow it is on the R-15 ?

The slip is not that bad when you use it once for football like you said but when you load up to 5-6 times to get through a commercial break and it takes 15-20 seconds, THEN it becomes more unbearable.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman said:


> You mean its slower than how slow it is on the R-15 ?
> 
> The slip is not that bad when you use it once for football like you said but when you load up to 5-6 times to get through a commercial break and it takes 15-20 seconds, THEN it becomes more unbearable.


It is a little slower then then R15's version


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You all do realize that those "commercials" are what pays the multi million dollars it takes to film those shows we like...
> 
> Even though we "pay" DirecTV for our TV service... that is partially for distribution costs, and then some for the content.... but ultimately... the "entire" TV model is based on advertising revenue... even the "pay" movie channels have commercials now (they are just in between the programs)
> 
> Hence why we have DNS Issues (why the affiiliates won't let you have NY's/LA's feed) Amongst others.


Uh huh...that's what I said. It's all about the money. :lol:

DirecTV is trying to run a business. Their customers are complaining about 30 second slip. The reason the 30 second slip is there is because DirecTV is trying to maintain it's subscriber base while keeping the networks happy. I'd think that people are unhappy because of D*'s implementation of the "slip." Why give us _another_ fast forward when we already have one?

I'm sure a day will come where we wont be able to skip past commercials at all. Download a show from abc.com and you'll see they're already doing that online. It's just a matter of time until you'll only be able to use skip to move around the actual program and not the commercials themselves.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Drunk Wex said:


> Uh huh...that's what I said. It's all about the money. :lol:
> 
> DirecTV is trying to run a business. Their customers are complaining about 30 second slip. The reason the 30 second slip is there is because DirecTV is trying to maintain it's subscriber base while keeping the networks happy. I'd think that people are unhappy because of D*'s implementation of the "slip." Why give us _another_ fast forward when we already have one?
> 
> I'm sure a day will come where we wont be able to skip past commercials at all. Download a show from abc.com and you'll see they're already doing that online. It's just a matter of time until you'll only be able to use skip to move around the actual program and not the commercials themselves.


What really needs to happen, is the advertisers have to get their heads out of old school style, and come up with more ways to promote products.

For example... Anyone notice the brand of computers that are used in a lot of the shows we watch? I don't remember the exact show... but I know they have been using DELL's, IMAC's, and HP as the 10ft high logos are plastered all over the back of those fake monitors 

Same with the cars that are driven..... lately instead of a full shot of a car, they zoom in on the logo on the grill then pan out to show the driver...

Friends: and their references to TiVo and it clearly visibily during the last season.
"Coke" "Pepsi" ect... specifically mentioned by characters.....

Product placement to me... is much more "suggestive" then an overly edited 30s spot, that just annoys me because I want to get back to my show... 

And THEN.... those "commercials" in the form of product placement... live on in Syndication and DVDs and you can't skip them either.


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What really needs to happen, is the advertisers have to get their heads out of old school style, and come up with more ways to promote products.
> 
> For example... Anyone notice the brand of computers that are used in a lot of the shows we watch? I don't remember the exact show... but I know they have been using DELL's, IMAC's, and HP as the 10ft high logos are plastered all over the back of those fake monitors
> 
> ...


As long as product placement doesn't take me out of the show I'm totally fine with it. There's been shows I've seen in the past where they're obviously _trying_ to push the product to a point where it gets annoying.

At this point I'm considering cancelling my HR20 though. I've got 9 more days to change my mind I guess. It's tough. I already get my locals in HD through D* anyway.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Drunk Wex said:


> I'd think that people are unhappy because of D*'s implementation of the "slip." Why give us _another_ fast forward when we already have one?


98% of users will not be unhappy as they don't even know there is a 30 second skip option/backdoor available on the Tivo's now. Joe User has no idea of features not in a manual, and that's giving them credit for even using the manual. The 30 sec "slip" will be all new to them and some may find it cool, others useless. But only diehard Tivo users that *must* have some sort of skip will be unhappy. Everyone else won't even notice.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You all do realize that those "commercials" are what pays the multi million dollars it takes to film those shows we like...


Very true. It is 'commercial television.' I enjoy my Tivo skip, but I understand and accept R-15 slip.

HOWEVER if the commericals reduce the entertainment value, than it's not worth the cost, and they should be proessured to changed. Speicifically, you mentioned bugs above. I don't mind translucent channel bugs in the corner. With 5 zillion channels and autotuning DVRs, I don't blame stations from wanting to make sure you know who's shows you are enjoying, but ANIMATED SHOW PROMOS COMPLETE WITH SOUNDS EFFECTS PLAYED OVER ANOTHER SHOW??!?!? This cannot be tolerated!!

Grr.

ApK
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"If we don't watch the commercials, it's like we're stealing television." -- Homer Simpson


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ApK said:


> I don't blame stations from wanting to make sure you know who's shows you are enjoying, but ANIMATED SHOW PROMOS COMPLETE WITH SOUNDS EFFECTS PLAYED OVER ANOTHER SHOW??!?!? This cannot be tolerated!!
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Ironic you quote Homer on that one...
Since FOX is one of the biggest abusers of that (especially during sports).

Last night During Deal or NO Deal, on the bottom they had a count down every 15 minutes or so, "43 minutes till Studio 60 premier, 30 minutes... ect"

And at one time... when they where during that... they scrolled accross the TOP... open casting calls for Deal or No Deal promos (local station add in)....

And that was at one point when the "cases" where being walked in... and that is one of the best parts of the show...


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

The Simpsons once parodied Fox's use of those promo. In one episode, a "Joe Millionaire" promo appears while Homer is on screen. He notices it, picks it off the screen and eats it. "Mmm...promo!" 
Then he spits it out. "Eew! Fox!"

Anyway, Toon Disney and whatever channel shows Star Trek Voyager are big offenders in this too. We need to organize a boycott.


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## Stevesdigi (Sep 19, 2006)

Slyster said:


> I am worried that someday.. super short commercials (10-20 sec?)will be randomly placed in all shows often like every 3 to 5 minutes... thus making it worthless to even bother fastforwarding anymore.
> 
> That would be a VERY sad day.
> 
> ... WOULD THEY DARE?


Sounds like the SciFi channel now :nono2: - I can't watch anything in realtime on that channel because of all the commercials and if you watch for two hours or more it is rediculously boring with the same ads over and over ...


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## Stevesdigi (Sep 19, 2006)

ApK said:


> I don't blame stations from wanting to make sure you know who's shows you are enjoying, but ANIMATED SHOW PROMOS COMPLETE WITH SOUNDS EFFECTS PLAYED OVER ANOTHER SHOW??!?!? This cannot be tolerated!!
> 
> Grr.
> 
> ApK


Those animated bugs have been getting worse lately on TNT and FX - I've started to realize that it is cable/satTV's form of Internet browser banner ads - except they're even more annoying than those stroboscopic banner ads that are trying to get your attention.


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## chicagojim (Sep 13, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... I found it GREAT for football this weekend.


That's because our Bears were rockin'!!!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chicagojim said:


> That's because our Bears were rockin'!!!


Da Bearssssssssss


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## cbeckner80 (Apr 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There are a bunch of advertising campaigns that are targetting DVR users.
> 
> Go SLOW frame by frame to see the hidden message commercial;
> FX's method of a static frame so you see it more...
> ...


They already do that in a way with those irritating pop ups advertising an upcoming show. That's probably to get us used to the idea of commercial advertising in that manner.

Carl:nono2:


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

ApK said:


> Very true. It is 'commercial television.' I enjoy my Tivo skip, but I understand and accept R-15 slip.
> 
> HOWEVER if the commericals reduce the entertainment value, than it's not worth the cost, and they should be proessured to changed. Speicifically, you mentioned bugs above. I don't mind translucent channel bugs in the corner. With 5 zillion channels and autotuning DVRs, I don't blame stations from wanting to make sure you know who's shows you are enjoying, but ANIMATED SHOW PROMOS COMPLETE WITH SOUNDS EFFECTS PLAYED OVER ANOTHER SHOW??!?!? This cannot be tolerated!!
> 
> ...


Anyone old enough to remember the start of cable? We were paying for a commercial free service. That was the selling point of cable in the beginning. Then some big-wigs thought...hmm...people will continue paying for cable regardless of commercials or not. And they were right!! When they force us to sit through 3 minutes of commercials without fast forwarding will a lot of people stop watching? Meh...probably not.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Drunk Wex said:


> Anyone old enough to remember the start of cable? We were paying for a commercial free service. That was the selling point of cable in the beginning.


That's not correct. Cable fees were always for delivery, never for content. The original purpose of cable was to provide a large shared antenna so people in rural Pennsylvania could receive commercial tv. (CATV = Community Antenna Television) They paid for access to the antenna (or, IIRC, they originally got it if they bought a TV from the guy who owned the antenna) AND they watched commercials.

Commericial-free channels like HBO came much much later and you paid extra for them.

You don't think really think that your montly cable bill is enough to produce 24 hours a day of programming on 100 channels, do you?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

"Anyone old enough to remember the start of cable? We were paying for a commercial free service. That was the selling point of cable in the beginning. Then some big-wigs thought...hmm...people will continue paying for cable regardless of commercials or not. And they were right!! When they force us to sit through 3 minutes of commercials without fast forwarding will a lot of people stop watching? Meh...probably not. :rolleyes"

Sir, I beg to differ. At the start of cable in the 1950s there were no commercial-free channels in existance. The function of cable was to provide commercial television service to areas too far from the station to receive them OTA with any practical antenna.

So satellite is still performing that function, and more--also bringing us dozens of commercial-free channels. Life is good.


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

Just posting my experience. Wikipedia disagrees with me too, although it's not the best source.


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

Don't forget that our buddies at DISH tv all enjoy skip... NOT slip... I miss that being one who was with DISH for 3 years and just moved to Direct.

I would hit 'skip' 8 times... and in like THREE seconds I was through with the commercials... perhaps a skip back a time or two.. adding perhaps a second.

How come THEY can do this still and we can't?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

hey without the commercials when would we goto the bathroom, get a drink, check e-mail, order pizza...... 
p.s. I remember a long time ago people saying that you could tell when the comercials came on by the drop in water pressure due to toilets flushing :eek2:


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

That's what PAUSE is for...


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

I'm confused here. So you hit the 30 second slip button and it skips 30 seconds ahead everytime you hit the button? If so I will love that. Is there a skip back button? if so how long does it skip back?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The 30 SLIP... FF exactly 30s of material.
so you "SLIP" past the commercial (you still see it).

You can que up 8 of them to go exactly 4 minutes of content.

SKIP, (as it does on TiVo), jumps 30s forward (you don't see the content)
No reverse skip, but you can reverse skip to tick though.


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## 66stang351 (Aug 10, 2006)

He is probably thinking of the jump=back/instant replay button. Press it and you jumpback ~5-8 seconds I think.


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## SParker (Apr 27, 2002)

Yup thats the one


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

Not sure you who were referring too.. but with DISH TV... when you hit 'skip' it was absolutely instant. You would hit 'skip' 8 times and in like TWO seconds you were through four full minutes of commercials.. and you didn't see a single frame on even one of them... totally blind.. why can't Direct do this? 

From a real lawsuit or something? Or just becasue they want to please the networks? Or simply because they have NO idea because they haven't watched recorded TV before?


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

Whelp...after much debate in my own head, I've cancelled my order for the HR20. Having dual 30min buffers and an instant 30 second skip with my HR10 is much better for my wife and I.

If D* adds the dual 30min buffers and an instant skip I'll think about going to the HR20. If not, I'll wait out the 2yr contract and move on to cable or IPTV or something. Who knows...2 years is quite a while in TV terms.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Dual buffers is probably coming soon. True 30 second skip, like Earl said, will NOT be here. If that's a requirement for you in a DVR, then the HR20 is not for you.


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## Drunk Wex (Sep 11, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Dual buffers is probably coming soon. True 30 second skip, like Earl said, will NOT be here. If that's a requirement for you in a DVR, then the HR20 is not for you.





Drunk Wex said:


> I've cancelled my order for the HR20


Yeah I know.


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## skodises (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm currently working on a macro for the Pronto TSU3000 I use as my single remote that will do something more closely resembling a skip. The concept is sound, as I've done it with my Tivo and other units. However, I haven't got it done yet. 

When finished, it'll be something on the order of ff-delay.1sec-ff-delay.1sec-ff-delay.xxsec-play, and I'll tune the delays to get essentially the desired result. I'm not sure what the shortest delay between commands is that the HR20 can handle, but the goal is simply to get it into 3xFF as quickly as possible (to limit the number of commercial frames flashed up), and then drop back to regular play at the appropriate time. It won't be a perfect skip (nor will it be a perfect 30sec, most likely), but it'll be a bit quicker than slip. With an appropriate delay on the end of the macro, it ought to be possible to stack them as well for longer jumps... I'll let you know how it goes.

The point is that this sort of thing should be possible to accomplish with macros in a smart remote.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

You're not worried that this will cause you to start having problems with your receiver?

Seems like the more we push them, the more they push back.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

There is no way that a macro like that would "break" the receiver.


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## Nivek (Sep 21, 2006)

bagleyb said:


> I saw an article the other day where FX is going to start broadcasting commercials for their show with a 30 second static image.


http://news.com.com/FX+to+test+new+ad+to+combat+DVR+viewers/2100-1024_3-6116143.html


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

That's is VERY lame.. what about the majority who are sitting watching TV live with popcorn in their lap? WORSE than commercials...


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Slyster said:


> That's is VERY lame.. what about the majority who are sitting watching TV live with popcorn in their lap? WORSE than commercials...


Presumably, they will get to enjoy some audio.

There already are ads like this. Just a voice over over a company logo or a picture of a car, etc.

I really don't mind this at all. I realize these ads pay for the show I'm watching, and as long as they are still letting me blast over them in less than 2 seconds, why do I care if the message comes across.


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## rsblaski (Jul 6, 2003)

skodises said:


> I'm currently working on a macro for the Pronto TSU3000 I use as my single remote that will do something more closely resembling a skip. The concept is sound, as I've done it with my Tivo and other units. However, I haven't got it done yet.
> 
> When finished, it'll be something on the order of ff-delay.1sec-ff-delay.1sec-ff-delay.xxsec-play, and I'll tune the delays to get essentially the desired result. I'm not sure what the shortest delay between commands is that the HR20 can handle, but the goal is simply to get it into 3xFF as quickly as possible (to limit the number of commercial frames flashed up), and then drop back to regular play at the appropriate time. It won't be a perfect skip (nor will it be a perfect 30sec, most likely), but it'll be a bit quicker than slip. With an appropriate delay on the end of the macro, it ought to be possible to stack them as well for longer jumps... I'll let you know how it goes.
> 
> The point is that this sort of thing should be possible to accomplish with macros in a smart remote.


This sounds like a good idea. With the 30 sec "slip" I have a problem with the HDMI handshake breaking off-I suspect due to the jerky video transmission- yet with the 3x FF I don't seem to have that problem. (I'm running my HR20 through component to a Denon 4306 and from there through HDMI to a Mits 73727).
By the way, can anyone help me out on programming the FF, RW, slip and replay buttons on a Pronto 3000 so that they can be manually held for three seconds so I can skip to ticks and the beginning and end of programs? I would like to be able to use these buttons in their default functions as well.
The HR10 was easy to configure since the skip to tick/beginning/end functions did not require a sustained button press.
Thanks,
Rick


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## joekun (Aug 18, 2006)

> But only diehard Tivo users that *must* have some sort of skip will be unhappy.


Tivo users ...Tivo only added that hidden feature in response to ReplayTV. If it hadn't been for them you would've been stuck fast forwarding through your commercials.

I think it's only a matter of time before some sort of external solution will come along allowing us the power-user features that we want (and with the ability to use a sat receiver). The majority of users will be happy with whatever their provider gives them and the rest of us will have the more powerful features we are accustomed to. This will inevitably require some hacking, but it'll happen.


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## Soundteck (Aug 28, 2006)

skodises said:


> I'm currently working on a macro for the Pronto TSU3000 I use as my single remote that will do something more closely resembling a skip. The concept is sound, as I've done it with my Tivo and other units. However, I haven't got it done yet.
> 
> When finished, it'll be something on the order of ff-delay.1sec-ff-delay.1sec-ff-delay.xxsec-play, and I'll tune the delays to get essentially the desired result. I'm not sure what the shortest delay between commands is that the HR20 can handle, but the goal is simply to get it into 3xFF as quickly as possible (to limit the number of commercial frames flashed up), and then drop back to regular play at the appropriate time. It won't be a perfect skip (nor will it be a perfect 30sec, most likely), but it'll be a bit quicker than slip. With an appropriate delay on the end of the macro, it ought to be possible to stack them as well for longer jumps... I'll let you know how it goes.
> 
> The point is that this sort of thing should be possible to accomplish with macros in a smart remote.


Instead of programming play you could program the back button to move back a couple of seconds. But TIVO may slap you with a lawsuit.. :lol: I have the same remote and I think I will try this... i am doing it by hand now.. FFX3 back button.. I honestly thought I was going to hate this SLIP during Baseball... but it seems to work pretty good. I dont miss something inbetween plays like I was with the TIVO Skip.


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## mcbeevee (Sep 18, 2006)

My Panasonic DVD recorder with hard drive has a "skip" button on the remote that moves forward 30 seconds instantly. If only my HR20 could do the same!


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## knmlee (Oct 24, 2006)

Fortunately, I qualify for the DNS HD channels and can use my HR10's 30 second skip to power through programs in much less time. I can't imagine spending almost 4 hours to watch a football game live. With skip, I can see the game in just about 1 hour.

If I stay with D*, it looks like I will probably lose the HD DNS sometime in 2007. My locals are available in HD already (Denver).

Question: is it likely that Dish will be able to keep the 30 second skip feature given their legal troubles with their DVR?

I may be crazy, but I'm actually considering switching to Dish just to keep the skip. Time is valuable. From what I can tell from reading the forums, switching to slip would add about 20 minutes to the viewing time for a typical football game - compared to skip.

Thanks,
Mark


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

knmlee said:


> Fortunately, I qualify for the DNS HD channels and can use my HR10's 30 second skip to power through programs in much less time. I can't imagine spending almost 4 hours to watch a football game live. With skip, I can see the game in just about 1 hour.
> 
> If I stay with D*, it looks like I will probably lose the HD DNS sometime in 2007. My locals are available in HD already (Denver).
> 
> ...


I'm with you on 30-second skip and football, and have made the same arguement about slip adding significant time to a football game.

Dish has lawyers just like D*. The 622 (their HD receiver) has 30-second skip. I can't imagine they would have put in a feature that would be illegal from the get-go. (yes, yes I know all about the TIVO ruling ;-) IMO, D* intentionally used this 30-second "slip" capability because Ruppert wanted it that way. Fox and F/X are building their advertising around it, and knowing what it would behave like gave them a headstart on the other networks.

Bottom line, is Dish has (for the most part) all the same content providers that D* has and they have 30-second skip. All IMO...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There is nothing "illegal" about "skipping" commercials.
There is no law or regulation prohibiting it.

However.... DirecTV and DishNetwork are in the business of DISTRIBUTING content. Which means in short... they have to keep the Networks/Affiliates 

It was "legal" issues that caused ReplayTV all their problems.
It was the advertisers and the networks that caused them problems.

What do you think will happen the next time Dish Network has to re-negotiate their carriage contracts, and the affiliates and networks have data showing how much their commercials are being skipped...

You can bet they are going to be asking for more $$$ to allow Dish to carry their channels.

As much as "We" don't like commercials... those commercials PAY for the TV we see. Even though we have a monthly bill, that only covers a portion of the overal cost from the programming we enjoy.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

RCY said:


> Fox and F/X are building their advertising around it, and knowing what it would behave like gave them a headstart on the other networks.


It is not like the DirecTV DVR is the first to have a FF feature.
Heck, I would hazard to guess then more then 70% of the TiVo users out there don't even know there is a SKIP feature.

Why, because it is a backdoor code to turn it on.
So unless you have come to the internet, purchased a TiVo Book, or had a friend that has done one of those... .most of those people don't even know it exists.

Same for all the Cable-Co DVRs.

That advertising Fox and F/X is doing, is countering ALL FF (including tapes).

And there have been other advertising Campaigns specifically for DVRs in the past... there was a car one that had a message in a single frame, that you could only see if you where pausing a DVR and going frame by frame. Or where really good with the tape.

Advertisers need to adjust to DVR technology.
And let's put it this way..... Unless they figure out a way to watch commercials during the brakes in the show... it won't be long until we see commercial crawls or bugs DURING the content we want to watch.

As I said before... Advertising is what pays the BULK share of the cost of the entermainment that we enjoy to watch.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What do you think will happen the next time Dish Network has to re-negotiate their carriage contracts, and the affiliates and networks have data showing how much their commercials are being skipped...


Absolutely nothing. Nielsen stopped measuring houses that timeshift programming, so there is no data to say how many people are timeshifting, much less commercial skipping.

Unless D* and E* are dumb enough to give that data to the "other side."


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Absolutely nothing. Nielsen stopped measuring houses that timeshift programming, so there is no data to say how many people are timeshifting, much less commercial skipping.
> 
> Unless D* and E* are dumb enough to give that data to the "other side."


Very true... but it isn't going to stop the networks and affiliates from just "blanket" statements that if you have a DVR you skip commercials... then they will just use the raw count of DVR household and lump them all together.

Even if it is skip, slip, ff, or nothing...


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## ExUltimateTV (Oct 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It's also not an "official" feature either.
> There is a reason why it is a backdoor code, and not listed on their website nor manual.


FWIW, *skip *is the way Ultimate TV works right out of the box. It was even documented!

Right now in my household we use the HR20 only for HD programs. We watch all SD shows on the UTV box since the interface is way better:
- Instanteous 30 sec skip versus 6X slip (which takes 5 seconds per, or about 30-40 seconds per typical commercial break)
- Faster fast forward & rewind rates (15X, 60X, 300X) No need to ticks
- Auto-extend of most sporting events that run over their scheduled time
- More information on most shows (such as credits for movies)
- Frame by frame stepping (in pause mode hit skip or replay)

And, the box is just way faster. The HR20 is noticeably slower than my 9 year old UTV box - I can't imagine what you folks with slower TIVOs have been putting up with.


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## Alvin Nuckleglazer (Oct 7, 2006)

paulman182 said:


> I don't understand how "skip" is better.


because it takes 3 seconds to slip when skip is almost instantaneous.


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## RCY (Nov 17, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It is not like the DirecTV DVR is the first to have a FF feature.
> Heck, I would hazard to guess then more then 70% of the TiVo users out there don't even know there is a SKIP feature.
> 
> Why, because it is a backdoor code to turn it on.
> ...


30 second skip is not the end of the advertising world, any more than VCRs with FF were in 1980. I think you (or someone) mentioned in a prevous post about product placement. This will continue to grow.

As long as D* is owned by the same entity as Fox, there will be questions about conflicts of interest. This is why 30 second "slip" is "slip" and not "skip", IMO. A compromise trying to appease those who were used to 30 second skip. Otherwise, as you say, most folks don't even have a concept of what 30 second skip is. (You said 70% of TIVO users don't, right? If they don't, how many of the "masses" using the HR20 and HR15 could possibly know? )

Whether E* provides it, or a Panasonic/Pioneer Hard Disk/DVD writer, or a MediaPC, or a Linux-based MythTV setup, 30 second skip is here, and will continue to be here, IMO.


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## bluedogok (Sep 9, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It is not like the DirecTV DVR is the first to have a FF feature.
> Heck, I would hazard to guess then more then 70% of the TiVo users out there don't even know there is a SKIP feature.
> 
> Why, because it is a backdoor code to turn it on.
> So unless you have come to the internet, purchased a TiVo Book, or had a friend that has done one of those... .most of those people don't even know it exists.


I didn't until I came here and I still haven't done anything about it on my SD-Tivo box. It isn't that big of a deal to me and occassionally catch some humorous or interesting commercials in "slipping" through them. But the I am one of "thoe people" who do watch sports live, that is why I usually have 2 tv's in my living room with sat boxes going to each.

What is annoying is how they have the long commercial breaks at 10 minute intervals instead of 15 minute intervals anymore. They are extrememly long on the "cable" channels (TNT, USA, etc.) and make the movie run in a 2:30 window instead of a 2 hour window. If my wife runs across a movie on some channel, half the time I tell her we have that DVD but she keeps watching anyway


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## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

We only use the HR20 for HD also, or for overlapping programs. SD get recorded on one of my two ReplayTVs with the dreaded COMMERCIAL skip (gasp!).


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## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Actually... I found it GREAT for football this weekend.
> You can hit that 30s slip, and pretty much go from the end of one play to the start of the next.
> 
> But with it slipping, I am not missing anything.....
> ...


I just used it for the 1st time last night on MNF, and I have to agree with Earl. When I was catching up the game to real-time, the slip feature actually worked well getting me from play to play without feeling like I might have missed some between-play coverage.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Never liked 30 skip on Tivo and I don't like the slip on the HR20. I just FFW with jump back and I'm done with it.


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## spunkyvision (Oct 12, 2006)

Well for me the 30 skip is great and I use it for Sports and regular programming. I personally had 1 person switch from Dish to DirecTv because of the Tivo Units and had 2 other co workers upgrade their units to Directv tivo units. I have the HR10-250 and love it but dont get locals. I use my HORRIBLE SA8300 HD dvr for recording local programming. 
I have been coming here for a while reading on the HR20 receivers and am not happy about them. No dual buffers and the 30 slip is a deal breaker for me. Cox (my cable provider) signed a deal with Tivo and will be putting their software on the boxes..so as a DirecTV customer for 10+ years I am seriously thinking about dropping directv completely at worst or keeping one receiver and minimal programming for football.
I am not happy about directv doing away with the tivo boxes..not because of me (I can learn the new software) but because of the household.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

spunkyvision said:


> Well for me the 30 skip is great and I use it for Sports and regular programming.


Agreed. Me too....I'm starting to see wearing in the icons on this button... :eek2:


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Earl, is there any info on if D* will speed up the 30-sec slip. I like the idea of the slip, but as it is it's just too slow and I won't use it... I'll just scan quickly ahead and stop it myself. Right now slip is not very nifty, but it can be if they do it a bit faster.


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