# MPEG 4 Question



## daleles (Jul 2, 2005)

How's the new MPEG 4 going to affect the Dish receivers? Is MPEG 4 only going to be implemented in the Hi Def signals? If so would a new Hi Def receiver be required? 
Just curious if all of us have to buy brand new receivers. 

daleles


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## jergenf (Mar 31, 2005)

When dish decides to compress their programs using mpeg4 then new receivers with mpeg4 decoders chips would be needed. Using this method would reduce the of bytes needed of a program to about half. Initially HD will provide the best savings because it presently takes 3 - 6 times more data compared to SD content. For this reason HD will be the first to require the new receivers. But within 3 years dish plans the convert all content (SD/HD) using mpeg4 to double their channel lineup.


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## KKlare (Sep 24, 2004)

Note the 921 DVR button quotes 7 hours of SD for each hour of HD and neither is exact, it can go more or less. 720p HD seem to take less than 1080i? As do stations with lower bandwidth due to more subchannels.
-Ken


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## cebbigh (Feb 27, 2005)

Will there be a significant change in picture quality either for HD or SD? I know the change is inevitable and am looking forward to expanded HD programming but is there a downside (beyond replacing equipment)?


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

Since 720p has twice the frame rate of 1080i, they both normally would take up about the same space & bandwidth. However, the actual program content will drive this- more motion equates to more space needed. Also, 1920x1080 is so often delivered at 1440x1080 or even 1280x1080 that the 1080i broadcasts may actually take up less space.

MPEG-4, like MPEG-2, allows the provider to vary the compression & bitrate. So they can compress more and deliver lower quality pictures, if they want. Or not. It's just that '4 is more efficient than '2 and can take up half the bandwidth while delivering the same PQ, all other factors being equal. 

I doubt that E* or D* will double their offerings due to MPEG-4. They will be simultaneously phasing in more HD content, which will use up a lot of that newly increased capacity. However, more satellites and more assigned frequencies will also arrive, allowing more programming.

I expect that new HD offerings will be in MPEG-4. Whether the upcoming additional Voom channels will be MPEG-4 or -2 is the question. Certainly all HD after that will be MPEG-4 only. Then all the current HD will move to MPEG-4. Then there'll be some sort of schedule to move the premium offerings and move down the "food chain." I wonder how soon the shopping channels will be offered in MPEG-4 and HD?

Since we don't know what kind of offers will be made to move up to the MPEG-4 receivers, I've held off getting a 942. I'll probably wait until the 962 ships, and hang on to my 721 & 508 as long as possible. The 301 goes first, unless there's a really nice trade up offer on my DVRs. With a 3 year phase in, as a practical matter all my current receivers will be gone in 2007. I might drop down to two receivers, perhaps a 962 & a 411.

We should know more on August 8, when the MPEG-4 Tech Chat airs. I'm hoping they'll have some phase in schedule to announce, even if they don't announce upgrade procedures. It would be nice to know when the first MPEG-4 transmissions will start. I'm guessing January 2006.


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## onegojoe (Jul 8, 2004)

How will the changeover to the mpeg4 be done. Will D* and E* send you the new receiver and you would return the old receiver to them? Would they be a free trade?


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

Yep, that's one of the questions.

Too bad neither company is providing answers yet. I'm sure they're holding off as long as possible, so as not to kill off current sales. Who wants to get all set up only to have to make significant changes in a very few months?

Probably they will offer low cost trades to people with recent receivers, and more expensive trade ups for those with receiver models over x years old. I doubt there'll be much credit given to receivers that predate the 501. Everything has an expected life span. Maybe freebies to very recent buyers. I suppose they'll want the old receivers back for the first few months. After that, they'll have no value and no use once deactivated, so why bother paying postage and disposal fees? 

All this is speculation on my part- there have been no announcements. On August 8 there is to be a Tech Chat on MPEG-4, maybe they'll have some word then. I'm hoping the plans will be published in September, but that's just a SWAG.


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## daleles (Jul 2, 2005)

We're talking about 10 million customers owning Dish receivers. That's a lot of receivers to change. If they all changed at once there's no way they could keep up the demand. 

The August 8 Tech Chat - would that be on channel 101? 

daleles


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Because of how many customers with receivers (and there is probably about 20 million or so receivers out there to swap out) they will phase it in to where they will only have to swap out an x amount of them at a time and probably order the receivers in bulk to save more money.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

Yes. I hear they plan on a 3 year swap-out. I expect there will be an initial rush for early adopters (which satellite companies probably have a good percentage of), followed by slower adoption as people are "encouraged" to change over by moving their programming over to MPEG-4. I'll bet they've got a huge number of 411s on order. I only know of the 411 and 962- has anyone heard of another MPEG-4 compatible receiver for DISH?

With the new 2 TVs per receiver approach, they may well ship a lot fewer replacements than are currently out in the system. But let's say the first year, with replacements and new customers, they need about 8 million receivers. That's an average of over 150,000 receivers per week. Somewhere, there's a huge warehouse .......

Yes, Aug 8, 101, 9 p.m. Eastern time.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I say on a website that sells dish , that they have a 422 , 411 and a 962 as the new mpeg4 receivers. The 411 is the new mpeg4 replacement for the 301/311 /811 receivers. The 422 is supposed to be a mpeg4 dvr replacement for the 522/625 receivers. The 962 replacement for the 942/921 recievers and is supposed to have the ability to record up to 100 hours of hd. At least that is what their website claims , of course none are available yet. All are supposed to be able to do hd or downconvert to sd.


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## socceteer (Apr 22, 2005)

navychop said:


> Yes. I hear they plan on a 3 year swap-out. I expect there will be an initial rush for early adopters (which satellite companies probably have a good percentage of), followed by slower adoption as people are "encouraged" to change over by moving their programming over to MPEG-4. I'll bet they've got a huge number of 411s on order. I only know of the 411 and 962- has anyone heard of another MPEG-4 compatible receiver for DISH?
> 
> With the new 2 TVs per receiver approach, they may well ship a lot fewer replacements than are currently out in the system. But let's say the first year, with replacements and new customers, they need about 8 million receivers. That's an average of over 150,000 receivers per week. Somewhere, there's a huge warehouse .......
> 
> Yes, Aug 8, 101, 9 p.m. Eastern time.


How does one become an early adopter...?


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

<prediction mode>I expect DISH will begin selling dual-capable receivers over the next years. They will all work in MPEG-2 mode until a magical future date when DISH flips a switch and everything changes to MPEG-4. Customers with older equipment will receive replacements over time as production makes them available prior to the changeover date.

I can't imagine any other approach, assuming DISH will use existing satellites. Bandwidth doesn't exist to allow carrying all the programs in both formats during a transition phase.

The change can't reasonably be done by replacing equipment at all the customer premises on a given day. Unlike most people who read this forum, the vast majority of satellite customers won't be interested in disconnecting/reconnecting receivers. Most replacements will involve tech visits and there simply aren't enough techs to accommodate a changeover on a specific date. Replacing older equipment will occur over a long period of time.</prediction mode>


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

Which website is this? I would like to see more details on these receivers. I hope that those of us with the high end equipment (the 942s) will get a low cost upgrade to the "4" equivalent


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

lakebum431 said:


> Which website is this? I would like to see more details on these receivers. I hope that those of us with the high end equipment (the 942s) will get a low cost upgrade to the "4" equivalent


 try this website: www.vssll.com/dishnetwork.html


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

deleted: duplicate post


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

deleted : duplicate post


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

A picture of pseudo "DP422" is a real picture of 411 .


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Still the fact they mention these three receivers gives me hope that they may know something we don't. I think Dish should stick with these three and drop the rest when they do the switch out to mpeg4.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I think Dish Network should follow what DirecTv is going to do and provide everyone with an HD DVR. They will not be able to survive very well when DirecTv starts advertisting how all their customers will get an HD DVR and Dish Network wants an X amount of money to get it during a swapout and how you can get it for free if you switch to DirecTv. They should give everyone a receiver that has HD DVR capability and where you can add additional functions and tuners but adding slots to them so that they are upgradable like a computer is. That would be the SMART thing to do. Have they not learned their lesson yet?


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

Not sure that D* free DVR offer is for everybody. Besides, E* PQ is much higher than D* these days, and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future. No bets on 2 years out, though. 

They'll ship MPEG-4 capable receivers for a while before they start shifting channels to MPEG-4. I may be dreaming, but I still think the conversion will begin by January 2006. I've pretty much decided to forego the 942 & 61.5 dish, and wait for the new satellite assignments, MPEG-4 & the 962. Besides, I just upgraded to the Top 180 yesterday, so I have plenty to watch. I can hang on for a few more months with my only HD being OTA.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I will enjoy what I have (just like most others) awaiting the MPEG-4 upgrade and looking forward to better things to come.


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## Tweakophyte (Dec 11, 2004)

I am waiting for MP4 before I get my next box. I actually would consider switching to DTV if the PQ improved...


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