# How many of you with Directv think Dish is getting better than Directv



## mkdtv21

With Dish Network offering more HD basic channels, having services like Blockbuster @ Home and still having SiriusXM channels I'm starting to think about switching to Dish. I was upset when Directv removed G4 because now I can't watch Nintendo E3 conferences anymore accept online and I was hoping the Tivo was going to be better than it is. To me the Dish Hopper looks more impressive than the HR34 and I feel the channel offerings are more to my taste on Dish. If your're not a sports fan I can't see why you would want to be with Directv and I'm not trying to be a troll I'm saying what I truly feel. I know some of you must have some of these feelings in the back of your head. Now that Directv is making a lot of profit I see them starting to become like cable. I know maybe one of you has to agree with me.


----------



## veryoldschool

Everyone needs to looks at what fits their needs best.
Dish has never appealed to me, as their PQ for HD is less and for the channels I watch, the price was within a dollar, the last time I checked.


----------



## joshjr

Dish does not appeal to me. They don't have Sunday Ticket,, MLB Extra Innings, Mega March Madness, FSN OK, still think there are WB & UPN affiliates out there, are in a contract dispute with 2 of my markets 4 locals right now. Need I say more?


----------



## MikeW

I've considered Dish because of the Hopper/Joey. I would wait a few months to see how the software shakes out in the real world. I won't do anything until after summer. I'm rather highly invested with DirecTV, so it will take alot to get me to switch.


----------



## lacubs

i will never switch!


----------



## Rtm

Yes definitely looking better not to mention having E! In HD which I'm totally lost as to why directv doesn't I used to watch it before got directv.

They have many more has I'm interested in too.


----------



## dakeeney

DTV is behind Dish when it comes to basic HD. DTV's PQ is a little better than Dish but not much. DTV doesn't need more RSN's or PPV channels. They need to catch Dish as far as HD goes. Would I bite the bullet and switch back to Dish? If they offered me the Hopper.....YES!!


----------



## dpeters11

Not for me,I would like BBCA and Nat Geo Wild in HD but not worth switching. Hopper does not interest me (even if I didnt have a 34), I want to record at I want to record, not just a blanket all network shows.


----------



## AquiringSat

As long as they don't offer MLB Extra Innings or NFL Sunday Ticket they will Never, NEVA, EVA Get My Money!


----------



## tgater

joshjr said:


> Dish does not appeal to me. They don't have Sunday Ticket,, MLB Extra Innings, Mega March Madness, FSN OK, still think there are WB & UPN affiliates out there, are in a contract dispute with 2 of my markets 4 locals right now. Need I say more?


Let's not forget the YES network. Also can I record 5 different programs with one receiver?


----------



## HoTat2

Getting better than DIRECTV? ... Nah, both services have their strengths and weaknesses, but "we're" (family splits the cost) heavily invested with DIRECTV here as we seemingly have been since we originally signed up '95

I don't really care for dish's upcoming Hopper/Joey for WH, much less their current installed base of ViP receivers' inability to integrate with it.


----------



## scorpion43

dakeeney said:


> DTV is behind Dish when it comes to basic HD. DTV's PQ is a little better than Dish but not much. DTV doesn't need more RSN's or PPV channels. They need to catch Dish as far as HD goes. Would I bite the bullet and switch back to Dish? If they offered me the Hopper.....YES!!


new customers get 1 Hopper and up to 3 joey's for FREE


----------



## HoTat2

tgater said:


> Let's not forget the YES network. *Also can I record 5 different programs with one receiver?*


Not with one box;

Only three tuners per their upcoming "Hopper," so you would need two in parallel.

Unless you consider the Hopper's "PrimeTime AnyTime" (PTAT) feature which can actually block record the big four networks simultaneously one one tuner between 8:00 PM -11:00 PM local as a sort of "virtual-increase" in physical tuners per Hopper. :sure:


----------



## ronsanjim

Would never switch to Dish. You never know what illegal crap they will pull. Their reputation precedes them....


----------



## scorpion43

ronsanjim said:


> Would never switch to Dish. You never know what illegal crap they will pull. Their reputation precedes them....


typical answer of a fanboy


----------



## JcT21

my parents and my sister have dishnetwork and are very satisfied with the service. it is true that dish does offer more HD basics than directv does and direc needs to catch up in that department. viewing HD on my directv and comparing it with dish HD at my sisters house, you really cant see that much of a difference, if anything. they both look great. however SD is much better on dish.

its obvious people gotta go with what appeals to them and directv is mostly all about the sports fan. myself, im not a sports fan at all. i switched from cable from a referal offer and got $10 month on top of the new member offers. so that was a good deal for me at the time. 

i think the hopper and joey look promising and that could get me to switch in a few years.... maybe. i do like my directv alot


----------



## dpeters11

scorpion43 said:


> typical answer of a fanboy


I wouldn't say it's typical. My main beef with their management is the carriage disputes. They pull channels more often than DirecTV. There's a fine line between getting the best price for your profits and raising monthly fees or not getting a deal done and dropping the channel.

Plus at least locally it seems they've been down more. At one point they moved the Cincinnati locals to a satellite a lot of customers didn't have access to and they had to wait for however long it took to fix the issue and move them back. I don't see DirecTV moving my locals to 119 or something. When they did move things, the average customer didn't notice.


----------



## wv_patsfan

In some ways, yeah, Dish looks appealing. But, hate to say it, Sunday Ticket is a huge factor for me (especially now that I will be working MUCH fewer weekends in the future due to a recent promotion!). This mystery "Everywhere" thing sounds like it has the potential to be cool as well. Besides, I'm lazy and switching would be a pain.


----------



## MysteryMan

Compairing DirecTV with DISH is like compairing a Rolls Royce with a Volkswagon Beetle. DISH reminds me of that old rent a car commercial being number two but saying they try harder but always coming up short. Need I remind everyone of Charlie's batting average when negotiating with channel providers?


----------



## scorpion43

MysteryMan said:


> Compairing DirecTV with DISH is like compairing a Rolls Royce with a Volkswagon Beetle. DISH reminds me of that old rent a car commercial being number two but saying they try harder but always coming up short. Need I remind everyone of Charlie's batting average when negotiating with channel providers?


Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


----------



## Curtis0620

scorpion43 said:


> Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


Not ESPNU, ESPNNEWS, DISNEY, many RSN's full time, etc. Plus Directv has more Premium movie channels in HD.


----------



## scorpion43

Curtis0620 said:


> Not ESPNU, ESPNNEWS, DISNEY, many RSN's full time, etc. Plus Directv has more Premium movie channels in HD.


Basic HD


----------



## scorpion43

mkdtv21 said:


> With Dish Network offering more HD basic channels, having services like Blockbuster @ Home and still having SiriusXM channels I'm starting to think about switching to Dish. I was upset when Directv removed G4 because now I can't watch Nintendo E3 conferences anymore accept online and I was hoping the Tivo was going to be better than it is. To me the Dish Hopper looks more impressive than the HR34 and I feel the channel offerings are more to my taste on Dish. If your're not a sports fan I can't see why you would want to be with Directv and I'm not trying to be a troll I'm saying what I truly feel. I know some of you must have some of these feelings in the back of your head. Now that Directv is making a lot of profit I see them starting to become like cable. I know maybe one of you has to agree with me.


You are asking this on a directv forum
what do u think the answers are going to be?
duh


----------



## tonyd79

scorpion43 said:


> Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


I get every NFL game in HD. I get almost every NBA, NHL, MLB game in HD. I get more movies in HD. I get Disney in HD. I get ESPNU in HD.

I do not think Dish has more HD.

Your reminder is incorrect.


----------



## tonyd79

scorpion43 said:


> Basic HD


Yes, the VW Beetle stuff.

You try to portray Dish as being the high end car when you are talking about cheap basic channels (the only one that I am interested in is BBCA...I have no need to watch the Kardashian Channel in HD...and yet DirecTV has basic HD channels *I* and many others are interested in....Disney...love me some Phineas and Ferb...and the ESPNs.)

Let Dish fill up the airwaves with trash. By the numbers, you can tell that the majority do not care.


----------



## scorpion43

the majority do not care? right 
good excuse :eek2:


----------



## MysteryMan

scorpion43 said:


> Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


"Basic HD" yes. After that DISH falls short on all counts.


----------



## dpeters11

scorpion43 said:


> Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


My In-laws had a Dish DVR, it was the only DVR that I've seen that I couldn't figure out, and I've used Time Warner Scientific Atlantas, Tivo and several versions of DirecTV boxes. They seemed to make things more complex and clunky than necessary.


----------



## DodgerKing

scorpion43 said:


> Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


You are judging #1 based only on the total number of HD channels? What about all of the other variables? What about the one that counts the most, the most subscribers?

It is not the total number of HD channels; it is the channels they offer that you want to watch. I currently only watch about 30% of the HD channels Direct currently carries anyway. Why would it be important if they add 10 more HD channels if I will never watch them to begin with. I can honestly say there may only about about 2 channels in HD that Dish currently carries that I may watch once in a blue moon. The others I would never watch at all.


----------



## veryoldschool

scorpion43 said:


> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


"More HD", is pointless [from either provider] if you don't watch the channels.


----------



## spartanstew

I don't subscribe to any of the sports packages, but still wouldn't switch.

Every channel I watch is in HD with D*, I have no interest in Sirius/XM (or any music) on my TV, and the Hopper/Joey doesn't interest me either.

I like my HR34 though.


----------



## DodgerKing

Actually I would compare Dish to my wife's Civic and DirecTV to my Dodge Ram.

My wife's Civic has all of the bells and whistles with more basic items, including navigation and leather seats (equivalent to having more of the basic channels). My truck has a more powerful engine and is able to do the things I need it to do that the Civic cannot do, like transport heavy items, and tow things (equivalent to providing the sports packages not available with Dish).

Let me also add that my wife's car gets much better gas millage (equivalent to lower base package prices with Dish), but I spend less total money in gas for the truck as it is driven a lot less (equivalent to not having to pay all those additional higher fees with Dish). If we did have the same setup with Dish that we do with Direct, we will actually be paying more for Dish than Direct even though their base package will be less money (determined by the actual package price not the promotional price).


----------



## Hoosier205

Dish doesn't even qualify given the inferior picture quality they offer and the fact that they carry fewer HD channels than DirecTV. DirecTV is #1 by a large margin.


----------



## gfrang

Dish is defiantly not for me,i was thinking of it years ago and had installers come and see if i had a los,instead of using compass they walked around with sat dishes hooked up to signal meters and told me i would need two dishes. I am glad i didn't make that mistake.


----------



## dcowboy7

Yea if youre too blind to see sucky PQ then yep dish is for you.

+ YAY another dish thread....been 3 days since the last so guess we were way overdue.


----------



## airedale

I just tried calling dish because I was interested in the hopper and didn't know about some of the features until I saw some posts in this thread.

I am interested in Dish because I also am interested in the Tailgater that they have. It gets HD and is less expensive than the Winegard option I have been looking at.

All that being said, the first guy I spoke with sounded like he could speak english, but he didn't even understand what I said to him. The second guy I got transfered to I could barely understand, but he did answer my question.
Usually I am used to running into that with support, but definitely not sales! Poor showing Dish, poor showing indeed! 

It totally soured me from even considering calling back in a month when it is supposed to be available.


----------



## Ronmort

I made that mistake once. That won't happen again. I'll stay with Directv.


----------



## scorpion43

Typical answers 
should of been expected


----------



## Phil17108

I did back in 97 or 98 for one year and then right back to direcTV. Hopper/Joy sounds like some sort of bad movie to me.


----------



## Blankman2k5

DodgerKing said:


> Actually I would compare Dish to my wife's Civic and DirecTV to my Dodge Ram.
> 
> My wife's Civic has all of the bells and whistles with more basic items, including navigation and leather seats (equivalent to having more of the basic channels). My truck has a more powerful engine and is able to do the things I need it to do that the Civic cannot do, like transport heavy items, and tow things (equivalent to providing the sports packages not available with Dish).
> 
> Let me also add that my wife's car gets much better gas millage (equivalent to lower base package prices with Dish), but I spend less total money in gas for the truck as it is driven a lot less (equivalent to not having to pay all those additional higher fees with Dish). If we did have the same setup with Dish that we do with Direct, we will actually be paying more for Dish than Direct even though their base package will be less money (determined by the actual package price not the promotional price).


I like this analogy...


----------



## veryoldschool

scorpion43 said:


> Typical answers
> should of been expected


So give us a break. 
You seem to like Dish, which is fine, but how many times do you feel you need to keep pushing this?


----------



## lparsons21

I always get tickled about the which has more HD comments. They are so funny. D* has more of some I watch and E* has more of different ones I watch. IOW, neither one has all the channels in HD that I want. For instance E* has BBCA in HD that I really wish D* had, but then D* has Showtime Extreme in HD and since boxing has been added to that one, I wish E* had that one too. The facts are that neither service has all the channels in HD that I want to watch. And frankly, neither has the edge on it either.

I could literally switch every day and notice something I missed from the other.

Because of what I watch, when I watch it and how I watch it, the Dish Hopper/Joey is a great fit for me. I could replace 3 HR24s with one Hopper and one Joey and be good to go. One thing I would notice real quick is how fast the Dish gear is compared to the D* DVRS.


----------



## Carl Spock

As if I care.

Dish is a fine service. There are many others. I'm satisfied with DirecTV and have been for years. 

Sometimes DirecTV is king of the hill and better than all other service providers. I'm thinking specifically of SD picture quality and channel selection back in the '90s, their commitment to HD in the middle part of the last decade, and over the years regarding sports programming. Other times they are average or even below average, like during the first two years of the HR20 DVR and regarding their current selection of HD basic channels.

But am I going to float with the wind? No. In the long run, I like the features, channel selection and performance I get with DirecTV. They don't call it a committment for nothing.

Or in other words, pick your lane and drive in it.


----------



## veryoldschool

Can we stop the name calling?
Post your likes and dislikes, but we don't need to go after each other here. :nono:


----------



## MysteryMan

scorpion43 said:


> Typical answers
> should of been expected


The truth isn't always pleasant.


----------



## veryoldschool

MysteryMan said:


> The truth isn't always pleasant.


"Truth", like beauty, may be in the eye of the beholder.

Let's all take a step back here from beating up each other, for their opinions.


----------



## scorpion43

MysteryMan said:


> The truth isn't always pleasant.


even comcast's PQ is better than DTV's


----------



## veryoldschool

scorpion43 said:


> even comcast's PQ is better than DTV's


Please stop it.


----------



## scorpion43

veryoldschool said:


> Please stop it.


good idea


----------



## MysteryMan

scorpion43 said:


> even comcast's PQ is better than DTV's


Comcrap provides superior PQ. Surely you jest. The OP opened a can of worms with this thread. Pity he didn't include a poll. I'd doubt you'd agree or be happy with the results.


----------



## Old_School

I think the saying "you get what you pay for" applies here.. We had E* for a bit an i have to say it sucked. We waited all day for an installer that never showed, when i called in to see what was going on the installer reported to the supervisor that everything was installed.. the supervisor himself came out to look and ended up doing it himself. He did a very poor sloppy install. Every time it rained the signal would drop and come back... then drop again. 3 service calls and all 3 tech told me the dish was perfect.. 

I will say that this was a few years ago and they MAY have improved on it. I also will say that D* also has shady installers in some areas, but both also have some really good installers too.. 

Bottom line is ... whatever fits your needs.. there both providers, they both will do whatever to gain the business over the other. If your not happy with one, switch to the other.. or perhaps we can all just install both providers and have the best of both worlds?


----------



## scorpion43

and i am closing it
goodbye


----------



## Billzebub

veryoldschool said:


> "Truth", like beauty, may be in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> Let's all take a step back here from beating up each other, for their opinions.


'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,-that is all 
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.' 
Keats


----------



## lparsons21

DodgerKing said:


> Actually I would compare Dish to my wife's Civic and DirecTV to my Dodge Ram.
> 
> My wife's Civic has all of the bells and whistles with more basic items, including navigation and leather seats (equivalent to having more of the basic channels). My truck has a more powerful engine and is able to do the things I need it to do that the Civic cannot do, like transport heavy items, and tow things (equivalent to providing the sports packages not available with Dish).
> 
> Let me also add that my wife's car gets much better gas millage (equivalent to lower base package prices with Dish), but I spend less total money in gas for the truck as it is driven a lot less (equivalent to not having to pay all those additional higher fees with Dish). If we did have the same setup with Dish that we do with Direct, we will actually be paying more for Dish than Direct even though their base package will be less money (determined by the actual package price not the promotional price).


Not a bad analogy, but it does depend on what you want to watch and how you watch it.

Here's a quick comparison of what prices will look like for me and not using any promos at all.

D* = Xtra (68.99)+(3) DVRs (12)+20 (ARS)=$98.99
Up in the air is what happens to the $10 credit for HD after 2 years, D* is pretty silent on that. But if it stays, then bill would be $88.99.
Mine since I'm already in place would be $89.99 since DVR+MRV is still billed at $1 more than ARS.

E* = T200 (59.99)+1 hopper and 1 Joey ($7)+($10) MRV/DVR = $76.99

Yes, D* has more sports, but neither has more boxing and golf which is the sports I'm interested in. Otherwise the programming is nearly the same with one missing something in HD that the other has.

Basically a $12/month savings going to E* in total cost. Other configs would be different of course, and added channels of one sort or another would add costs.


----------



## braven

Until Dish gets the NFLST it will NEVER be better than DIRECTV!


----------



## crawdad62

I like E* programming packages better. I'm not a sports fan so a lot of D*'s advantage isn't an advantage to me but....... that's where it ends. I like D*'s equipment, their PQ, & customer service better.


----------



## lparsons21

braven said:


> Until Dish gets the NFLST it will NEVER be better than DIRECTV!


That assumes you actually want NFLST! 

My son talked me into switching last August just because of that. Now he says he's not going to pay for the 2nd year and you can bet your bippy I'm not either. So for me, NFLST has no value.


----------



## PCampbell

Never say never but I all the channels I watch are in HD, The Ipad app is great. Nomad ( I fly a LOT and Delta will not let you streem in flight plus its 12$ a flight for there wifi). Also a big sports fan. D14 will launch more HD and SD will start to go away in about five years IMHO.


----------



## Laxguy

scorpion43 said:


> Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


And didn't you just accuse another of being a fanboi? 
Note spelling!


----------



## azarby

I'm not sure sure that DISH could come up with something that is equivalent to the 10 tuners of my 2 HR34s.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

Please keep on topic and quit discussing each other and stop the name calling.


----------



## Laxguy

MikeW said:


> I've considered Dish because of the Hopper/Joey. I would wait a few months to see how the software shakes out in the real world. I won't do anything until after summer. I'm rather highly invested with DirecTV, so it will take alot to get me to switch.


I saw the combo at CES, and while it's a real innovation to record the networks in primetime so you can go back and catch what you "missed", the Joey's are not so clever. 
Plus, I have so many things recorded in the queue, I don't want to know about more things I might want to watch!


----------



## lparsons21

braven said:


> Until Dish gets the NFLST it will NEVER be better than DIRECTV!





azarby said:


> I'm not sure sure that DISH could come up with something that is equivalent to the 10 tuners of my 2 HR34s.


2 Hoppers would give you effectively 9 tuners during prime time and 6 otherwise.

But I have to ask, what in the world can you want to watch that would have you need 10 tuners at any given time? The most I've ever had going at once were 5 of the 6 tuners I have and that very rarely.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> But I have to ask, what in the world can you want to watch that would have you need 10 tuners at any given time? The most I've ever had going at once were 5 of the 6 tuners I have and that very rarely.


This might be more important with a multi-viewer household.
I know I can't find that much to record at one time, but figure if there were kids here, there might be more.


----------



## trh

Dish has SiriusXM? Now there's a reason not to get Dish (post merger XM).


----------



## Shades228

scorpion43 said:


> Typical answers
> should of been expected




Which company lost overall subscribers again for the year?
Which company pulled it's top end receiver?
Which company released a new top end receiver?
Which company increased it's fees per receiver to be like a cable model?
Which company gets higher customer satisfaction ratings of the two?
Which company has been cited multiple times for carrying channels it wasn't authorized to?
Which company has been regulated by the government due to not following federal guidelines?
Which company spends more money on court costs?
Which company loses more court cases?

So I guess if those are "Typical questions" than it makes DISH still a better company? DISH has proven over and over again that they think small when it comes to their customers. The new hopper joey aspect proves that even more. Why limit yourself to a set hardware limit and yet they've done just that intentionally. Charlie lives in the past and is still scared of his shadow. He thinks that every customer is out there to rip him off and that if they allowed the same amount of receivers, tuners, and equipment on accounts that DIRECTV did that they would be ripped off somehow. Until the board is replaced this is how it will always be with DISH and since Charlie is the controlling stock holder this is how it will be. I could use an Al Davis analogy as when he started he did go against the grain and was innovative. However as he gets older he does more damage to his company than good.

There's a difference between cost and value don't get them confused. If DISH meets your needs than more power to you but if you want to judge a company based on success it's already been proven who the better company is. No one company will ever be for everyone so having choices is good.

So the bottom line to customers is still what company has products, services, and an overall experience that meets their needs. 7 million more customers have already proven which company meets that overall compared to the other.

FYI typical responses don't make them any less correct or valid. If you asked someone if 1+1=2 you would get a typical response.


----------



## Curtis0620

lparsons21 said:


> 2 Hoppers would give you effectively 9 tuners during prime time and 6 otherwise.
> 
> But I have to ask, what in the world can you want to watch that would have you need 10 tuners at any given time? The most I've ever had going at once were 5 of the 6 tuners I have and that very rarely.


So, 1 HR34 and 2 HD receivers are much better than 1 Hopper and 2 Joey's.

The 2 HD receivers will not use any of the 5 HR34 tuners when watching live TV.

The 2 Joeys use 2 of the 3 Hopper tuners leaving you only 1 Tuner to Record.

That is a big setback.


----------



## jdspencer

re: Hooper. What good is recording the entire prime time on the networks if you are only interested in maybe 50% of those shows?


----------



## Old_School

veryoldschool said:


> This might be more important with a multi-viewer household.


I can very easily see a household of 5 or more needing it. we are a house of 3 and often have recording conflicts between the kids shows and ours..


----------



## bjamin82

Until Dish has the amount of sports packages, they aren't even in the same ballpark... no provider is for that matter.


----------



## lparsons21

Curtis0620 said:


> So, 1 HR34 and 2 HD receivers are much better than 1 Hopper and 2 Joey's.
> 
> The 2 HD receivers will not use any of the 5 HR34 tuners when watching live TV.
> 
> The 2 Joeys use 2 of the 3 Hopper tuners leaving you only 1 Tuner to Record.
> 
> That is a big setback.


In tuner count, the D* model always comes out ahead in actual numbers. But in effective tuner availability, it depends on what, when and how you watch TV. Having more tuners isn't necessarily an advantage in actual use.

For instance, the only times I've seen an issue with contentions is during prime time and that caused by the broadcast channels. For other channels, they repeat so often it isn't an issue. My viewing is almost 100% recorded, I seldom watch anything live. So more actual tuners isn't a big deal. One Hopper with one Joey would do it for me.

For me an HR34+Hxx would do it or one hopper plus one joey, with no loss of recorded programming. IOW, 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.


----------



## lparsons21

jdspencer said:


> re: Hooper. What good is recording the entire prime time on the networks if you are only interested in maybe 50% of those shows?


If you want 50% of them recorded, it only takes one tuner to do it.


----------



## Sixto

For me, it's DirecTV vs FiOS. Have never considered Dish to be a tier-1 player, especially with missing my local RSN's in HD.


----------



## Old_School

Sixto said:


> For me, it's DirecTV vs FiOS. Have never considered Dish to be a tier-1 player, especially with missing my local RSN's in HD.


Here FIOS is not even offered.. it's Directv, Dish, or Comcast...

Something has to be said about Comcast when 9 of the 10 homes on my block have a Directv dish mounted on the property:lol:


----------



## MysteryMan

Old_School said:


> Here FIOS is not even offered.. it's Directv, Dish, or Comcast...
> 
> Something has to be said about Comcast when 9 of the 10 homes on my block have a Directv dish mounted on the property:lol:


Says a lot about DISH too.


----------



## lparsons21

Shades228 said:


> Which company lost overall subscribers again for the year?
> Which company pulled it's top end receiver?
> Which company released a new top end receiver?
> Which company increased it's fees per receiver to be like a cable model?
> Which company gets higher customer satisfaction ratings of the two?
> Which company has been cited multiple times for carrying channels it wasn't authorized to?
> Which company has been regulated by the government due to not following federal guidelines?
> Which company spends more money on court costs?
> Which company loses more court cases?


Nice questions, even if quite of a few of them don't matter as a subscriber. 

Here's questions I'm much more concerned with:
1. Which one has the channels I want in HD?
2. Which one is least costly for my installation?
3. Is the picture quality good? Yeah, I know D* has blah-blah so much better HD. My eyes don't see much difference, and that really is what matters to me.

All the rest is fodder for discussion and contention!! 

Both companies are good, both are profitable and both have different views about how to approach the satellite TV market.


----------



## Laxguy

Old_School said:


> Here FIOS is not even offered.. it's Directv, Dish, or Comcast...
> 
> Something has to be said about Comcast when 9 of the 10 homes on my block have a Directv dish mounted on the property:lol:


Well, it says you live in a discerning upscale neighborhood! :lol:


----------



## MysteryMan

lparsons21 said:


> Nice questions, even if quite of a few of them don't matter as a subscriber.
> 
> Here's questions I'm much more concerned with:
> 1. Which one has the channels I want in HD?
> 2. Which one is least costly for my installation?
> 3. Is the picture quality good? Yeah, I know D* has blah-blah so much better HD. My eyes don't see much difference, and that really is what matters to me.
> 
> All the rest is fodder for discussion and contention!!
> 
> Both companies are good, both are profitable and both have different views about how to approach the satellite TV market.


A fourth question you should be asking is which of the two satellite providers has a better track record when negotiating with content providers?


----------



## lparsons21

MysteryMan said:


> A fourth question you should be asking is which of the two satellite providers has a better track record when negotiating with content providers?


Yep, that's a good question and it does affect the subscriber.

But I've been with both and it has not ever been a big deal with me. Too many channels to watch to start worrying about that. Missed a few shows I liked on occasion, just not enough to seriously bother me.


----------



## coldsteel

MysteryMan said:


> A fourth question you should be asking is which of the two satellite providers has a better track record when negotiating with content providers?


By 'track record' do you mean standing up to excessive rates or rolling over and passing the cost to the consumer...?


----------



## scorpion43

u guys use some pretty pathetic reasoning to convince people that directv is better than any other provider.
like directv is something out of this world
pretty pathetic


----------



## veryoldschool

scorpion43 said:


> u guys use some pretty pathetic reasoning to convince people that directv is better than any other provider.
> like directv is something out of this world
> pretty pathetic


I try not to, but then I also don't understand why you're so upset about favorable posts about DirecTV in a DirecTV forum.

Weren't you going to stop posting?


----------



## trh

scorpion43 said:


> u guys use some pretty pathetic reasoning to convince people that directv is better than any other provider.
> like directv is something out of this world
> pretty pathetic


The question was "How many of you with DirecTV think Dish is getting better than DirecTV"; nothing about trying to convince Dish people that DirecTV was better.


----------



## dpeters11

There are people that like Dish, and there are people that like DirecTV. The ones that like DirecTV just happen to live more on this side of the forum.

There are some big reasons I prefer DirecTV, not something I'm going to get into on the public forum, but doesn't mean the customers that like Dish are wrong. If they don't think I'm wrong for choosing DirecTV for my situation, I don't think they're wrong and it's all good.


----------



## veryoldschool

dpeters11 said:


> There are people that like Dish, and there are people that like DirecTV. The ones that like DirecTV just happen to live more on this side of the forum.
> 
> There are some big reasons I prefer DirecTV, not something I'm going to get into on the public forum, but doesn't mean the customers that like Dish are wrong. If they don't think I'm wrong for choosing DirecTV for my situation, I don't think they're wrong and it's all good.


So I'm guessing you also don't go over to the other side of this forum, and start calling everyone there names either.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

scorpion43 said:


> u guys use some pretty pathetic reasoning to convince people that directv is better than any other provider.
> like directv is something out of this world
> pretty pathetic


If you dislike DIRECTV or the folks that are posting in this thread you don't need to read the thread or reply to their posts.

Keep the posts friendly and the thread can stay open.


----------



## sigma1914

No one provider is the best for everyone. You shouldn't attack others for defending their provider when you're defending yours. Who cares if someone likes my choice of DirecTV? Are you paying my bills? Until you start paying my bills, your opinion on what's good for me is worthless.


----------



## veryoldschool

I would like to thank the Dish subs, that have taken their time to post their opinions about their service and not had to try to degrade everyone else who may have a different opinion.


----------



## jahgreen

Competition is good. Neither would be as good if the other didn't exist.

That's all I have to say.


----------



## charlie460

Dish's reduced resolution/bit starved HD channels is reason enough for me to stick with DirecTV regardless of how many more basic channels they have, I don't want to watch them if they look like garbage. (yes, I am picky)


----------



## Hoosier205

If you value HD picture quality, you'll never be happy with DIsh.


----------



## Satelliteracer

scorpion43 said:


> Directv beeing the Beetle in this case
> Need i remind everyone that dish as more HD


With all due respect, I think that's a flawed argument to some extent. VOOM used to have the most HD at one point and they are gone. It's important to understand quality vs quantity.

D* and Dish carry similar HD channels for the most highly rated channels. Nearly identical, except that D* actually has a few more because of DISH's dispute with ESPN, ESPN2, etc.

D* has more premium HD channels than DISH.

Another poster mentioned D* needs to "catch up" in HD compared to DISH. It's funny, but there are areas that Dish needs to catch up to Directv. Premiums would be one. RSNs is another. Other sports content. Sports packages, etc.

Not everyone has everything.

Based on the last few years of subscribers going to the two services, I think D* is doing just fine including this latest round of subscriber numbers from the last 10 days.


----------



## DodgerKing

lparsons21 said:


> Not a bad analogy, but it does depend on what you want to watch and how you watch it.
> 
> Here's a quick comparison of what prices will look like for me and not using any promos at all.
> 
> D* = Xtra (68.99)+(3) DVRs (12)+20 (ARS)=$98.99
> Up in the air is what happens to the $10 credit for HD after 2 years, D* is pretty silent on that. But if it stays, then bill would be $88.99.
> Mine since I'm already in place would be $89.99 since DVR+MRV is still billed at $1 more than ARS.
> 
> E* = T200 (59.99)+1 hopper and 1 Joey ($7)+($10) MRV/DVR = $76.99
> 
> Yes, D* has more sports, but neither has more boxing and golf which is the sports I'm interested in. Otherwise the programming is nearly the same with one missing something in HD that the other has.
> 
> Basically a $12/month savings going to E* in total cost. Other configs would be different of course, and added channels of one sort or another would add costs.


The price comparisons I did were before the Hopper and Joey existed. Since I do not do MRV and I need to take one of my secondary devices with me when I go to our other place in Mammoth, the Hopper and Joey would not be an option for me. I'll have to find the chart I did as I do not have time to research prices right now. But I did end up saving about $2 with Direct each month with my grandfathered package than I would with the equivalent package and setup with Dish.


----------



## lparsons21

In my case, D* always comes out higher except as new/returning customer promos. Generally not a significant amount otherwise. Different setups will produce different results and the tendency before the Hopper/Joey was that the more units you had, the less likely Dish would come out cheaper.


----------



## Herdfan

I had DISH as a second provider during 2005-2006 when some NASCAR races were on TNT and DirecTV didn't have it in HD. 

But as far as doing a full switch, not a chance as things stand now. My service is set up too good with 5 HR2x and an HR34 coupled with Whole Home. Plus, from following from afar, it seems DISH changes dishes a lot. I am on my 3rd dish in 17 years.

Price is not factored in at all. Even if it were free I couldn't see switching.


----------



## scorpion43

Satelliteracer said:


> With all due respect, I think that's a flawed argument to some extent. VOOM used to have the most HD at one point and they are gone. It's important to understand quality vs quantity.
> 
> D* and Dish carry similar HD channels for the most highly rated channels. Nearly identical, except that D* actually has a few more because of DISH's dispute with ESPN, ESPN2, etc.
> 
> D* has more premium HD channels than DISH.
> 
> Another poster mentioned D* needs to "catch up" in HD compared to DISH. It's funny, but there are areas that Dish needs to catch up to Directv. Premiums would be one. RSNs is another. Other sports content. Sports packages, etc.
> 
> Not everyone has everything.
> 
> Based on the last few years of subscribers going to the two services, I think D* is doing just fine including this latest round of subscriber numbers from the last 10 days.


this coming from a Directv employee :eek2:


----------



## scorpion43

Hoosier205 said:


> If you value HD picture quality, you'll never be happy with DIsh.


can you come up with something more original besides using the same old quote?


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> If you value HD picture quality, you'll never be happy with DIsh.


I respect your opinion, but I've actually had both in HD and the differences are very slight. Only in some sports does the difference make a noticeable difference.

Yeah, I know the tech says its better. But I prefer using my own eyeballs. Just like with speakers for my surround. I don't care what the 'experts' tell me, I want to listen and decide.


----------



## sigma1914

scorpion43 said:


> this coming from a Directv employee :eek2:


Point out where he's wrong rather than trying to discredit him because of his employer. Don't worry, I'll wait......


----------



## scorpion43

sigma1914 said:


> Point out where he's wrong rather than trying to discredit him because of his employer. Don't worry, I'll wait......


u better sit while u wait or your old legs will give up:lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> I respect your opinion, but I've actually had both in HD and the differences are very slight. Only in some sports does the difference make a noticeable difference.
> 
> Yeah, I know the tech says its better. But I prefer using my own eyeballs. Just like with speakers for my surround. I don't care what the 'experts' tell me, I want to listen and decide.


Which is why they use 1440 x 1080, instead of 1920 x 1080, "for most" it's close enough.


----------



## veryoldschool

sigma1914 said:


> Point out where he's wrong rather than trying to discredit him because of his employer. Don't worry, I'll wait......


Not to rag on Satracer one bit, but "yeah", when the sig says DirecTV employee, one might think their is more of a bias.


----------



## sigma1914

scorpion43 said:


> u better sit while u wait or your old legs will give up:lol:


I'm only 34, but in a wheelchair so I'm always sitting. 

Thanks for reinforcing how you can't counter SR's facts.


----------



## scorpion43

sigma1914 said:


> I'm only 34, but in a wheelchair so I'm always sitting.
> 
> Thanks for reinforcing how you can't counter SR's facts.


if u truly are in a wheelchair then i apologize if i offended you,it was not me intention


----------



## sigma1914

scorpion43 said:


> if u truly are in a wheelchair then i apologize if i offended you,it was not me intention


I wasn't offended at all.  Thanks for apologizing, though, but it's ok.

And yes it's true.


----------



## stebrock

I'm getting my DTV install tomorrow. i've been with Dish since the beginning of satellite TV. The only reason I'm switching is for the 3D channels.


----------



## Satelliteracer

scorpion43 said:


> this coming from a Directv employee :eek2:


Correct, I am an employee but fair in my opinions. I don't think anything I said was incorrect. On the highest rated channels, D* carries the same ones as DISH does, in fact even more because of ESPN, ESPN2 etc.

D* carries more Premiums in HD than DISH.

There are facts and there are opinions. I'm simply using facts. Does DISH have more basic channels in HD than D*? Yes. Does D* have more sports content in HD than DISH? Yes. Does D* have more Premiums in HD than Dish? Yes. Let's not forget that D* serves a more premium customer (customers that watch more Premiums, Sports..like YES Network, Sports Packages). Dish is a quality service and the right service for some people. D* is a quality service and the right service for some people.

Not everyone has everything.


----------



## Davenlr

stebrock said:


> I'm getting my DTV install tomorrow. i've been with Dish since the beginning of satellite TV. The only reason I'm switching is for the 3D channels.


Think that is the first time I have seen someone post that as a reason for switching providers 

As to previous comment(s) about PQ... Ive never had Dish. My supervisor does. My Boss had U-Verse, now has Xfinity. Ive always had DirecTv, and did have Xfinity last summer for 3 months. I also am able to watch several of the actual backhauls and distribution feeds for some of the networks, and HD channels using a FTA dish.

What confuses many, I think, is why do so many people claim Xfinity has great PQ, and Dish looks as good as DirecTv, etc. Well, to coin an old computer phrase, garbage in - garbage out. If you take a 7Mb/s HD feed as a source, it doesnt really matter if you send it out at 13-15 Mb/s, its still going to look the same (minus losses from reencoding to mpeg4 if the original is mpeg2). So while DirecTv gives more bandwidth to each channel, some channels just dont matter, as they are low(er) bitrate to start with.

Xfinity looked excellent on my 60" TV here using a Tivo Premier on SOME 1080i channels, while seeming a little less on others. For the 720p channels, there was no difference at all. I am sure Dish is similar.

If all you watch are sports and Fox, ABC network channels, then since they are all 720p, you probably wont notice a difference between providers. 1080i movie channels is where the difference would be most noticable, I think. I never subscribed to any, so never compared them, hence my eyes never saw much difference between the two.

Now, if you want PQ, watch the 1/2 transponder PBS HD distribution feed. THAT is PQ.


----------



## spartanstew

Satelliteracer said:


> Not everyone has everything.


RichieRich does.


----------



## stebrock

veryoldschool said:


> Which is why they use 1440 x 1080, instead of 1920 x 1080, "for most" it's close enough.


Curious,are these actual numbers or estimates? Again long time Dish getting D* tomorrow.


----------



## Laxguy

scorpion43 said:


> this coming from a Directv employee


You'll find that SR puts out facts; is very sparing of opinions; and hardly ever personal in his remarks: thank heavens!

But he's secretive about his association with DIRECTV®; you have to read his sig line.....


----------



## veryoldschool

stebrock said:


> Curious,are these actual numbers or estimates? Again long time Dish getting D* tomorrow.


This come from the web, since I don't have Dish, but there are enough posts to believe it's true.
Bandwidth is everything, so when you only have so much, you either have to give up on the number of channels, or find ways to squeeze more into what you have.


----------



## Richierich

Satelliteracer said:


> Not everyone has everything.





spartanstew said:


> RichieRich does.


Well, I try to do my Best to Keep Up with My Moniker!!!

I think DIRECTV is going to BURY Dish and I am thankful I am with DIRECTV even though they are not Perfect.

I have a few gripes with them especially about the Colored Button Changes but I am Extremely Happy with DIRECTV and I was the First One To Buy & Activate An HR10-250 (I was a TiVoHolic in those days) with DIRECTV.

I still have 2 HR10-250s for Sale if anyone needs them!!!


----------



## jdspencer

lparsons21 said:


> If you want 50% of them recorded, it only takes one tuner to do it.


But, doesn't the Hopper always record all four networks regardless? And, thereby take up drive space!


----------



## ThomasM

The only reason I stick with DirecTV is that they still have the best pricing scheme if you have multiple receivers/DVR's. I hate to think what I'd have to pay DISH for THREE SEPARATE DVR's! A weird DVR with HD and RF (SD) outputs and two remotes (one RF one IR) doesn't compare to two SEPARATE DVR's with two tuners EACH!

As for programming, DISH has lots of programming packages but if you compare the DirecTV packages with the DISH packages that contain the same channels, the pricing is almost identical.

When DirecTV ups the individual receiver pricing again, I will strongly consider DISH or (gasp!) going back to cable.


----------



## 1980ws

scorpion43 said:


> u guys use some pretty pathetic reasoning to convince people that directv is better than any other provider.
> like directv is something out of this world
> pretty pathetic


As I always say about DirecTV, "Best Television Service on the Planet". Out of this world I can't say for sure.


----------



## DodgerKing

scorpion43 said:


> u guys use some pretty pathetic reasoning to convince people that directv is better than any other provider.
> like directv is something out of this world
> pretty pathetic


Let me ask you one simple question, Can you dispute any of the facts presented by anyone here?


----------



## dpeters11

"DodgerKing" said:


> Let me ask you one simple question, Can you dispute any of the facts presented by anyone here?


Not now that his account is closed, or at least that one.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Folks, let's get back to topic and be polite. I'd hate to close this thread.


----------



## lparsons21

jdspencer said:


> But, doesn't the Hopper always record all four networks regardless? And, thereby take up drive space!


Not drive space you can use, it uses part of the reserved space.


----------



## Rtm

scorpion43 said:


> even comcast's PQ is better than DTV's


LMAO alright. Thats why I currently only subscribe to their internet service.


----------



## azarby

lparsons21 said:


> 2 Hoppers would give you effectively 9 tuners during prime time and 6 otherwise.
> 
> But I have to ask, what in the world can you want to watch that would have you need 10 tuners at any given time? The most I've ever had going at once were 5 of the 6 tuners I have and that very rarely.


My wife will record as many as 5-6 programs in the same time slot, very few of wich are on the regular broadcast channels. Add to that my 1-2, which hmeans that there have been as many as 8. Not very often, but it happens. If the grandson is over, that chewe up one more tuner.


----------



## jimbo56

Satelliteracer said:


> Does DISH have more basic channels in HD than D*? Yes. Does D* have more sports content in HD than DISH? Yes. Does D* have more Premiums in HD than Dish? Yes. Let's not forget that D* serves a more premium customer (customers that watch more Premiums, Sports..like YES Network, Sports Packages). Dish is a quality service and the right service for some people. D* is a quality service and the right service for some people.
> 
> Not everyone has everything.


Yeah SatRacer! You are totally correct. It's amusing that so many posters feel the need to defend their provider at the expense of another, and attack other posters in the process. Are they that insecure in their choice of providers that they feel the need to vilify anyone who makes a different choice?

The bottom line is that there are many providers, all of which provide a similar service at a similar cost. Each has advantages in certain areas. It's up to me, as a consumer, to decide which provider fits my needs best. My choice, based on my needs, may or may not be the same as yours. Don't tell me MY choice is stupid based on YOUR needs.

It's no surprise that we can't have peace in this world when we can't even discuss television providers without angry exchanges...


----------



## crawdad62

I had a few times I had recording/viewing conflicts but now that I have Whole Home and four DVR/receivers networked together and four people potentially watching at the same time I've had a lot more. That's why I'm looking at getting a HR34 eventually.


----------



## bidger

Both DirecTV and TWC offer my locals in HD while DISH does not. End of discussion.


----------



## azarby

azarby said:


> My wife will record as many as 5-6 programs in the same time slot, very few of wich are on the regular broadcast channels. Add to that my 1-2, which hmeans that there have been as many as 8. Not very often, but it happens. If the grandson is over, that chewe up one more tuner.


A little clarification is needed here. She actually records 3-4 programs for latter playback while watching two other programs live delayed, bouncing back and forth between them.


----------



## mdavej

"bidger" said:


> Both DirecTV and TWC offer my locals in HD while DISH does not. End of discussion.


It's only the end if you can't get them OTA either. Works out great for me because I can record 4 things at once on my 722k (2 OTA + 2 Sat).


----------



## Paul Secic

Rtm said:


> Yes definitely looking better not to mention having E! In HD which I'm totally lost as to why directv doesn't I used to watch it before got directv.
> 
> They have many more has I'm interested in too.


E! You really that junk?


----------



## MysteryMan

Paul Secic said:


> E! You really that junk?


One man's candy can be another man's poison.


----------



## billsharpe

My daughter in Florida has Dish. I had DirecTV before I switched to FiOS. We both have 40-inch HD sets. I couldn't tell the difference in PQ between the two systems, although obviously this wasn't a side-by-side comparison. I preferred the music channels on Dish over SonicTap.

I can't really see much difference in HD PQ between FiOS and DirecTV. However, the SD PQ on FiOS is much better than on DirecTV, at least on TCM, the one SD channel that I watch fairly often.


----------



## subeluvr

After 8+ years with Dish and 4+ years with DirecTV my experience is that...

With Dish the customer exists for the convenience of the company and that attitude seems to be from the very top on down to the phone lines.

With DirecTV the company exists for the convenience of the customer... or at least they give me the illusion that it does.

Sat TV has been far more enjoyable with DirecTV than with Dish from a hardware, service, and attitude standpoint.


----------



## Sixto

MysteryMan said:


> One man's candy can be another man's poison.


Yep, amazing how judgmental everyone is. So it's frowned upon for those that want to watch the Academy Awards Red Carpet in HD. Yep, it's on other channels as well, but some might like the E! coverage. Everyone's an expert.


----------



## hasan

"It's no surprise that we can't have peace in this world when we can't even discuss television providers without angry exchanges..."

More's the pity. Up to this point, I've read the posts with a sense of bemusement. Upon further reflection, being this is television, the tone of the discussion is embarrassing, and not funny at all.

Sign of the times, I suppose, and we all think we have God on our side.


----------



## PCampbell

This is like a bunch of ******** fighting over who makes the best pickup.


----------



## veryoldschool

PCampbell said:


> This is like a bunch of ******** fighting over who makes the best pickup.


I was thinking drunks in a sport's bar arguing over their team, but guess it's the same thing.


----------



## dah_sab

I recently switched from DISH to DirecTV. 

What I miss from DISH: what I consider to be the slightly better GUI, RAI (Italian TV,) BBCA in HD, OTA local recording (better PQ,) local subchannels, no ads in the guide, manual recordings which show program info. 

What I like about DirecTV: GolTV (essential for the soccer fanatic,) every single Champions League game, Fox Soccer Plus HD, Audience Channel, not paying for locals guide info, easier "season pass" setup, Whole Home w/4 total tuners & more storage space rather than one w/2 + OTA, no charge for extra DVRs, YouTube (when it's there, & so far not on 59e, dammit,) (seriously, wtf?) only one dish, 6 channels of Australian Open tennis during the first week of the tournament (and I'm assuming similar for other tournaments,) 2 custom Favorites, DirecTV subtitles, show info (cast, etc,) HDMI that works. 

I'm sure there's more, I just can't think of it right now. I'm very happy now, though I was initially regretting it before I discovered trick play. Not having that (or rather not knowing it was there,) would've made me seriously consider switching back. I consider myself very tech-knowledgeable & yet I didn't discover this for about 6 weeks. Probably says more about me than DirecTV. 

So yeah, I'm very happy I switched after some initial trepidation.


----------



## veryoldschool

dah_sab said:


> What I miss from DISH: OTA local recording (better PQ,) local subchannels.


Maybe I'm not understanding this, but adding an AM-21 will do this for you.


----------



## fogtownjohn

This has been an interesting read. It's been awhile since I did an Dish vs. DirecTV comparison and I am surprised. Currently, I have Choice Xtra (68.99) and found the Dish America's Top 250 to be a close match (69.99). Dish has the following in HD which DirecTV does not:

*8)*

ENCORE 
ID
H2
HALL MC HD
TCM
DIY
BBCHD
FMC
TMC
TMC XTRA
FXHD
NatGeo Wild

*: |*

TRUTV
TV LAND
LMN
E!
STYLE
OWN

*OTHER PROS:*
You can attach an external HD to the Dish 722 DVR and still use the internal drive. Their DVR svc is $6/mo and HD is free.

*CONS:*
HD offerings on Premium channels are not up to par - this is a bummer for me. Lower HD resolution? Inferior customer service - especially if it's off shore.

I've been pleased with DirecTV so switching to Dish would not be an easy choice. I'd enjoy to hear from more of you except for emotional fanboys.


----------



## Billzebub

fogtownjohn said:


> This has been an interesting read. It's been awhile since I did an Dish vs. DirecTV comparison and I am surprised. Currently, I have Choice Xtra (68.99) and found the Dish America's Top 250 to be a close match (69.99). Dish has the following in HD which DirecTV does not:
> 
> *8)*
> 
> ENCORE
> ID
> H2
> HALL MC HD
> TCM
> DIY
> BBCHD
> FMC
> TMC
> TMC XTRA
> FXHD
> NatGeo Wild
> 
> *: |*
> 
> TRUTV
> TV LAND
> LMN
> E!
> STYLE
> OWN
> 
> *OTHER PROS:*
> You can attach an external HD to the Dish 722 DVR and still use the internal drive. Their DVR svc is $6/mo and HD is free.
> 
> *CONS:*
> HD offerings on Premium channels are not up to par - this is a bummer for me. Lower HD resolution? Inferior customer service - especially if it's off shore.
> 
> I've been pleased with DirecTV so switching to Dish would not be an easy choice. I'd enjoy to hear from more of you except for emotional fanboys.


Am I crazy or does D have FX, TMC and Encore in HD?


----------



## fogtownjohn

You're correct, my mistake. I should have said "while D has TMC and Encore in HD" they are premium channels and not part of the Choice Xtra package. - Thx


----------



## Herdfan

"PCampbell" said:


> This is like a bunch of ******** fighting over who makes the best pickup.


Ford!


----------



## zimm7778

"fogtownjohn" said:


> This has been an interesting read. It's been awhile since I did an Dish vs. DirecTV comparison and I am surprised. Currently, I have Choice Xtra (68.99) and found the Dish America's Top 250 to be a close match (69.99). Dish has the following in HD which DirecTV does not:
> 
> 8)
> 
> ENCORE
> ID
> H2
> HALL MC HD
> TCM
> DIY
> BBCHD
> FMC
> TMC
> TMC XTRA
> FXHD
> NatGeo Wild
> 
> : |
> 
> TRUTV
> TV LAND
> LMN
> E!
> STYLE
> OWN
> 
> OTHER PROS:
> You can attach an external HD to the Dish 722 DVR and still use the internal drive. Their DVR svc is $6/mo and HD is free.
> 
> CONS:
> HD offerings on Premium channels are not up to par - this is a bummer for me. Lower HD resolution? Inferior customer service - especially if it's off shore.
> 
> I've been pleased with DirecTV so switching to Dish would not be an easy choice. I'd enjoy to hear from more of you except for emotional fanboys.


As someone stated earlier, Dish can have 200 more HD channels than Directv but if you don't watch those channels it doesn't matter to you. Before the Fall of 2007 the average person could really gripe about Directv's severe lack of HD content. That changed over those couple of months as I'd say most of the most important channels had their HD channels light up on D*. Over the last 4+ years they've slowly added more. To many there are some glaring omissions. To me, there aren't. I don't have premium movie channels although most of those are now in HD as well. I don't care about most any other basic channel not up. I watch GSN but I only watch the old game shows on there so it not being in HD isn't an issue. I never even look at what's on TruTV until the basketball tournament. I don't care about DIY, Military channels, or anything else I can really think of other than perhaps Headline News but even that I just want so the once in a blue moon I go buy the channel it looks nicer. This boils down to what you are most interested in. I love sports. I sub to Extra Innings, Center Ice, and Sunday Ticket. Every other channel I care about is available in HD or the fact that it's in SD doesn't bug me. I just bought a 3D TV this week so seeing the few things in 3D from Directv are also cool, not sure if Dish has any 3D programming. They may, I just don't know. Im also content with the Directv equipment and the costs each month for having it. Theres also something to be said for having a service so long you pretty much know where everything is and not having to relearn new channel numbers. So, I'm satisfied with Directv and have no plans to switch. But as stated, others may feel differently.


----------



## bidger

bidger said:


> Both DirecTV and TWC offer my locals in HD while DISH does not. End of discussion.





mdavej said:


> It's only the end if you can't get them OTA either.


CBS-HD is a sub-channel of the local ABC affiliate (WENY) in 480i and FOX-HD is a low power feed about 18 miles away and I can't pick it up with a chimney-mounted antenna. Sorry, but it just looks bad on DISHs end when the other two providers offer HD locals and they don't.


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding this, but adding an AM-21 will do this for you.


Yes and no. The AM21, just like the HR20, it gets the OTA data from some D* database and that isn't always complete. With E*, the OTA scans for whatever is available.

That said, I think someone said that the AM21 with the HR34 does a scan although I could be misremembering.


----------



## jimbo56

fogtownjohn said:


> I've been pleased with DirecTV so switching to Dish would not be an easy choice. I'd enjoy to hear from more of you except for emotional fanboys.


I would say, since the base price is essentially the same, you would have to compare the differences between the two services and see what is most important to you.

More basic HD: advantage Dish, by a wide margin
More sports: advantage DirecTV, by a wide margin
HD premium channels: DirecTV
Picture quality: DirecTV edge slightly for HD, Dish edge for SD
3-D: No comparision. DirecTV. Even if you don't have a 3-D TV now, will you be getting one in the next 2 years?
Equipment and technology: subjective, but I would give DirecTV the edge based on the HR34 and whole-home DVR

If everything were equal (or nearly so) I would go with the provider which offered the lowest price. If you are out of contract with DirecTV (to avoid cancellation fees), I'm sure Dish would give you a great new customer offer which would save you a few bucks. Or you could call DirecTV and tell them you're switching and they will probably give you a pretty good discount as well. And even if you do switch, DirecTV will be bombarding your mailbox with "come back" offers.

If you find something you enjoy with DirecTV (sports, for example) that Dish is deficient in, then it makes no sense to switch, regardless of the price. Although I would still politely speak with DirecTV retention and ask them for a discount based on your considering Dish as an option.

Good luck making your decision.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

I "had" Dish for 3 days last summer in a bed & breakfast. I thought it was beyond horrible. The GUI was awful, the PQ wasn't as good as D* (my B&B had HDTV, and the sets had pretty good PQ on locals). There were so many goofy channels too.

My wife said that E* reminded her of HSN back when they had crazy hosts with "Tootie the horn" while D* was more like QVC. (QVC appealing to a different demographic).


----------



## lgb0250

We had Directv for several years. We decided to go with DISH because at that time their HD content was far superior to DTV. When we bought a new house and tried to use the movers advantage, we were told it would be 30 days! I immediately cancelled and got DTV again.

After 2yrs we will be moving back to DISH in the next 30 days or so.

Over this time period we have noticed no difference in the PQ as far as we're concerned! There probably is but we're just not that into it. Customer service seemed the same from both providers to us.

The one and only reason for us moving back is because I'm not a sports fanatic and my wife loves more free movies. It's really as easy as that as far as we're concerned. To each their own.


----------



## ejbvt

Old_School said:


> Here FIOS is not even offered.. it's Directv, Dish, or Comcast...
> 
> Something has to be said about Comcast when 9 of the 10 homes on my block have a Directv dish mounted on the property:lol:


I like this. So true. The same can be said here in my complex. Getting a satellite signal here is HARD due to trees and the weird alignment of the buildings and only being allowed to place the dish on "controlled" patios, half of which face the wrong direction, like mine. My upstairs neighbor let Directv put the dish on his balcony so I could get a signal. Others across the complex do the same. Over half the buildings have satellite dishes, most of which are Directv. I am surprised to see OTA antennas, too.

The complex across the street is more lax with where the dishes can go, there are literally lines of them on the ground with numbers on the back (I assume the unit numbers). If my count is correct, only around 15 or 16 units over there (there are about 40) DON'T have satellite. I don't know what the Dish vs. Directv is over there. There could be more on the other sides of the buildings that I can't see.

This is what happens when Time Warner Cable is the only other option. They're just as bad as Dish with sports. Not all of our RSNs, no Sunday Ticket, faulty equipment, carriage disputes all the time. Yeah, they have the most "HD" of any provider I have ever seen (it's shocking to see what they have in HD, over 23 basic channels that we don't have) - but the PQ is just horrid. Dish isn't horrid, but few FT RSN HD? No ABC Family? ESPNU? How is that even possible!?!? Not to mention the sky-high price...


----------



## nybill38

i'm actually with both dish and direct right now for a short period of time and I have to say that both have their issue's.

Directs picture quality is slightly better
Directs DVR and on screen guide are better
Direct has more full time HD sports than Dish.

FSAZ is unwatchable most times on Dish.

Dish has more movie channels in HD Epix etc

Sling feature on Dish is very hit and miss mostly miss right now (software issue)

Like the local weather feature on dish (Weatherscan)


----------



## nybill38

nybill38 said:


> i'm actually with both dish and direct right now for a short period of time and I have to say that both have their issue's.
> 
> Directs picture quality is slightly better
> Directs DVR and on screen guide are better
> Direct has more full time HD sports than Dish.
> 
> FSAZ is unwatchable most times on Dish.
> 
> Dish has more movie channels in HD Epix etc
> 
> Sling feature on Dish is very hit and miss mostly miss right now (software issue)
> 
> Like the local weather feature on dish (Weatherscan)


I forgot to mention that Blockbuster is a joke if you try and watch it on your TV, you have search through 100's or even 1000's of titles, there is no real search function unless i'm totally missing it somewhere


----------



## EntropyByDesign

nybill38 said:


> i'm actually with both dish and direct right now for a short period of time and I have to say that both have their issue's.


Agreed. I switched from Dish to Directv last summer, and the sports and picture quality definitely got better for me, but the new DVR menu system is slower than Dish's. Overall I was happy with both services. I just couldn't take Dish showing RSNs in part time HD. That was an unadvertised "feature" they neglected to mention when I signed up for Dish in 2009.


----------



## la24philly

there is no comparison Directv is better period. prehaps even close this thread.


----------



## dah_sab

"veryoldschool" said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding this, but adding an AM-21 will do this for you.


You understand correctly. That would solve my problem, yes. It's just that the capability was built in to the OTA tuner in my DISH receiver, and I miss that.


----------



## veryoldschool

dah_sab said:


> You understand correctly. That would solve my problem, yes. It's just that the capability was built in to the OTA tuner in my DISH receiver, and I miss that.


The HR20 [the first MPEG-4] had two OTA tuners.
These were removed with later receivers and required the AM-21 add-on. Most customers don't use OTA, so it allowed for the receiver price to drop, but for $50, those that want/need it can have it.


----------



## lparsons21

Remember that even with the AM21, you can only record 2 events at any given time regardless. Other than with the HR34, which can record 5 events total at a given time.

With E*, the OTA allowed for more events at the same time. IE; with the 722k and the 2-tuner OTA module, you could record 4 events at once.

The E* model is more flexible in that regard.


----------



## lparsons21

One complaint with D*'s MRV is that there is no central control/viewing of the series manager and todo list. Makes it a PITA to manage recording series, not a major PITA that makes you want to throw a remote, but a PITA never the less. Of course, the advantage of the D* system is there isn't a central point of failure also.

With E* and one Hopper, everything is done on the Hopper. Either by the remote talking to the Hopper, or via the Joey being controlled. And assuming that a 2nd Hopper at some point will be fully integrated, you still have central management. That is a big plus for the Hopper/Joey design. The downside of a single Hopper install is you have a single point of failure.

BTW, with D*s design, and using RVU TVs or the rumored upcoming RVU box and an HR34, the system is essentially the same as the Hopper/Joey install with the same benefits and downsides. When/if D* gets the RVU box out, and/or more TVs show up with RVU, I think you'll see D* pushing for a similar install to the Hopper/Joey. Makes financial sense for the company side. Reduces cost of the install.


----------



## Ed Campbell

Been with D* 18 years. Every now and then I check in with a neighbor to see if I'm missing anything.

On balance, I'm not. And over time, it becomes harder to find someone I know who has DISH.


----------



## lparsons21

In my area it is about 50/50 according to some installers I've talked to and my observation of dish types that I've noticed while driving around.

In discussion with my friends, it is also about 50/50 and usually whatever they got first is what they still have. I'm the only one that has done much switching around.


----------



## Laxguy

lparsons21 said:


> BTW, with D*s design, and using RVU TVs or the rumored upcoming RVU box and an HR34, the system is essentially the same as the Hopper/Joey install with the same benefits and downsides. When/if D* gets the RVU box out, and/or more TVs show up with RVU, I think you'll see D* pushing for a similar install to the Hopper/Joey. Makes financial sense for the company side. Reduces cost of the install.


Right now, an HR34 coupled with some H25s has all the advantages of H+J and none of the drawbacks.

An HR34 with RVU TVs or a separate box would be similar in that there's a one box you can't live without: the single DVR.

I don't see how either will reduce the cost of installing other than an RVU device (or Joey) being cheaper than a full fledged receiver with multiple tuners.


----------



## lparsons21

Laxguy said:


> Right now, an HR34 coupled with some H25s has all the advantages of H+J and none of the drawbacks.
> 
> An HR34 with RVU TVs or a separate box would be similar in that there's a one box you can't live without: the single DVR.
> 
> I don't see how either will reduce the cost of installing other than an RVU device (or Joey) being cheaper than a full fledged receiver with multiple tuners.


An HR34 with H25s is pretty close, but not quite. No actual live trickplay, but you can get around that.

Not only are the RVU boxes and Joeys cheaper to produce, which in itself is a huge savings for the company because of the potential volumes, but it makes for a simple nearly one-size-fits-all install and support structure.

I can see a future that would make a single box the go to box for all installs, even those not wanting DVRs or HD. Put the box in, disable the services they don't want (like the DVR and HD) and then when/if they want to change that, do it via sat/internet. No service call in that instance. And it reduces the per unit cost because of volume savings.

Now that won't be happening real soon, but I think that is the way things are trending.


----------



## carlsbad_bolt_fan

My in-laws have Dish. They chose it because they wanted Chinese programming. If you want international channels, Dish wins. 

That being said, they are on their 5th HD-DVR & 2nd or 3rd dish/switch replacement. In that same time period (4 years), my orginal HR20's have just worked.

Having more channels is one thing. But if the equipment keeps failing, what good is it?


----------



## jimbo56

la24philly said:


> there is no comparison Directv is better period. prehaps even close this thread.


I'm curious as to why, living in Philadelphia and apparently a big sports fan, you choose DirecTV. If I were living in Philadelphia and a big Philly sports fan I would not even consider DirecTV as a television provider, due to the lack of CSN Philly. If Dish doesn't carry CSN Philly (I haven't checked their sports lineup so I can't say for sure), I wouldn't choose them either. I would probably go with Comcast. Fortunately for me, DirecTV carries all my RSNs, so I'm happy with their sports lineup in my area. But DirecTV is definitely deficient sports-wise in the Philly market, IMHO.


----------



## sigma1914

jimbo56 said:


> I'm curious as to why, living in Philadelphia and apparently a big sports fan, you choose DirecTV. If I were living in Philadelphia and a big Philly sports fan I would not even consider DirecTV as a television provider, due to the lack of CSN Philly. If Dish doesn't carry CSN Philly (I haven't checked their sports lineup so I can't say for sure), I wouldn't choose them either. I would probably go with Comcast. Fortunately for me, DirecTV carries all my RSNs, so I'm happy with their sports lineup in my area. But DirecTV is definitely deficient sports-wise in the Philly market, IMHO.


Look at his signature...


> NHL CI, NFL ST, MLB EI, NBA LP


Can't get all those anywhere else, especially in HD. Also, they might get cable's cheapest deal for CSN Philly.


----------



## jimbo56

sigma1914 said:


> Look at his signature...
> 
> Can't get all those anywhere else, especially in HD. Also, they might get cable's cheapest deal for CSN Philly.


All the out-of-market games in the world wouldn't do me a bit of good if I couldn't watch my local teams play. Maybe the OP has to go with Comcast for CSN Philly; I'll see what he says. I'll stick by my original statement that DirecTV (I'm sure not by their own doing) is not a good choice for Philly sports fans if you live in the Philly DMA. I will add - "unless you are prepared to pay Comcast an additional fee for the privilege of watching CSN Philly"

Also, I should add that I am a Phillies fan living in Buffalo and I am able to watch the CSN Philly feed on EI (except when they're playing the Mets or Pirates). Hardly seems fair to a DirecTV subscriber living in Philly to be denied those games.


----------



## la24philly

jimbo56 said:


> I'm curious as to why, living in Philadelphia and apparently a big sports fan, you choose DirecTV. If I were living in Philadelphia and a big Philly sports fan I would not even consider DirecTV as a television provider, due to the lack of CSN Philly. If Dish doesn't carry CSN Philly (I haven't checked their sports lineup so I can't say for sure), I wouldn't choose them either. I would probably go with Comcast. Fortunately for me, DirecTV carries all my RSNs, so I'm happy with their sports lineup in my area. But DirecTV is definitely deficient sports-wise in the Philly market, IMHO.


I pay for 2 providers I have directv for everything - Premier, and the sports packages they offer alot of them in HD.

I have 1 comcast cable box on the lowest package for 2 channels CSN and TCN.

Trust me, iF D adds it the 1 cable box is gone.


----------



## la24philly

the sports packages on comcast in my area are on SD only. they use indemand. they were suppose to get 18 HD channels for there sports packages, but have not put them on there guide, comcast is behind in technology.

i only have 1 box = for 2 channels im paying basically about 35 a month for the 2 channels.

kinda feels like an endless PPV charge 35.00 a month about 420 a year.

so for the past 14 years I paid approx total of 420 * 14 = 5880

over 5 grand for 2 channels. But I can't live without being able to watch the philly teams.


----------



## jimbo56

la24philly said:


> the sports packages on comcast in my area are on SD only. they use indemand. they were suppose to get 18 HD channels for there sports packages, but have not put them on there guide, comcast is behind in technology.
> 
> i only have 1 box = for 2 channels im paying basically about 35 a month for the 2 channels.
> 
> kinda feels like an endless PPV charge 35.00 a month about 420 a year.
> 
> so for the past 14 years I paid approx total of 420 * 14 = 5880
> 
> over 5 grand for 2 channels. But I can't live without being able to watch the philly teams.


I feel your pain, and I totally respect your decision. Must be a real aggrivation to only be able to watch your favorite teams in SD. Hopefully DirecTV will pick up these RSNs soon and you can kiss Comcrap goodbye.


----------



## la24philly

jimbo56 said:


> I feel your pain, and I totally respect your decision. Must be a real aggrivation to only be able to watch your favorite teams in SD. Hopefully DirecTV will pick up these RSNs soon and you can kiss Comcrap goodbye.


i do get CSN and TCN in HD so its a plus, what i meant in non HD is if I had comcast as my only provider and wanted the sports packages those channels are in SD only in my area.

so Directv has everything else.


----------



## APB101

mkdtv21 said:


> *With Dish Network offering more HD basic channels,* having services like Blockbuster @ Home and still having SiriusXM channels I'm starting to think about switching to Dish. I was upset when Directv removed G4 because now I can't watch Nintendo E3 conferences anymore accept online and I was hoping the Tivo was going to be better than it is. To me the Dish Hopper looks more impressive than the HR34 and I feel the channel offerings are more to my taste on Dish. If your're not a sports fan I can't see why you would want to be with Directv and I'm not trying to be a troll I'm saying what I truly feel. I know some of you must have some of these feelings in the back of your head. *Now that Directv is making a lot of profit I see them starting to become like cable. I know maybe one of you has to agree with me.*


This is _good_!

I believe DirecTV made _bad_ choices with the issue of what to add in HD the last three years: 2009, 2010, and 2011. And I've even stated in the _HD Anticipation_ quarterly threads that Mike White and Derek Chang should be out.

_As for making the move to Dish Network:_ it's not what I'm actually wanting. I have a renewed interest in MLB Extra Innings for the coming 2012 season (I subscribed in 2008, 2009, and 2010) and, in what may be a first, I'm considering a subscription come fall for NFL Sunday Ticket.

The picture quality, from DirecTV, is high. (Which is not to say differently about other providers.) I'm glad for that. I appreciate it.

In my market, my choices are DirecTV, Dish Network, WOW (short for Wide Open West), and Comcast. WOW is small fry. Comcast is chaotic. And Dish would require me to spend all over again for equipment that, two years from now (if that's when DirecTV finally has caught up with HD Basics), will make it seem perhaps unnecessary. All in all, it comes down to me (but not me alone; I don't live by myself!) weighing the options and arriving at a decision. And one can change his mind. But, in the meantime, I don't think I'd actually be _winning_ with any of these four!

_Side note:_ I found out, a few months ago, that a _fifth_ provider is not a possibility with me. (I previously thought otherwise.) AT&T U-verse has service to my zip code. But my specific address cannot yet receive U-verse and/or high-speed Internet. _Also:_ AT&T U-verse has lost select programming, due to contractual reasons, with NHL Network and both Hallmark programmers (Hallmark Channel and Hallmark Movie Channel). I equate that with Dish Network having lost HD feeds to some Disney/ABC programming. And, quite frankly, I don't find that _encouraging_.


----------



## APB101

Satelliteracer said:


> With all due respect, I think that's a flawed argument to some extent. VOOM used to have the most HD at one point and they are gone.


No. 1 reason VOOM died was because it came on the market at a time that was premature. The U.S. wasn't yet into HD. Availability. Costs. VOOM was to its period what 3D is to this one.


----------



## Hoosier205

"APB101" said:


> This is good!
> 
> I believe DirecTV made bad choices with the issue of what to add in HD the last three years: 2009, 2010, and 2011. And I've even stated in the HD Anticipation quarterly threads that Mike White and Derek Chang should be out.
> 
> As for making the move to Dish Network: it's not what I'm actually wanting. I have a renewed interest in MLB Extra Innings for the coming 2012 season (I subscribed in 2008, 2009, and 2010) and, in what may be a first, I'm considering a subscription come fall for NFL Sunday Ticket.
> 
> The picture quality, from DirecTV, is high. (Which is not to say differently about other providers.) I'm glad for that. I appreciate it.
> 
> In my market, my choices are DirecTV, Dish Network, WOW (short for Wide Open West), and Comcast. WOW is small fry. Comcast is chaotic. And Dish would require me to spend all over again for equipment that, two years from now (if that's when DirecTV finally has caught up with HD Basics), will make it seem perhaps unnecessary. All in all, it comes down to me (but not me alone; I don't live by myself!) weighing the options and arriving at a decision. And one can change his mind. But, in the meantime, I don't think I'd actually be winning with any of these four!
> 
> Side note: I found out, a few months ago, that a fifth provider is not a possibility with me. (I previously thought otherwise.) AT&T U-verse has service to my zip code. But my specific address cannot yet receive U-verse and/or high-speed Internet. Also: AT&T U-verse has lost select programming, due to contractual reasons, with NHL Network and both Hallmark programmers (Hallmark Channel and Hallmark Movie Channel). I equate that with Dish Network having lost HD feeds to some Disney/ABC programming. And, quite frankly, I don't find that encouraging.


Your suggestion that DirecTV has been making bad decisions for the last three years is supported by...well...nothing. Three of the most successful years they have ever had. Thankfully, you were not asked whether the services of Mike and Derek should be retained. More of the same...


----------



## inf0z

scorpion43 said:


> even comcast's PQ is better than DTV's


Umadbro?


----------



## bobvick1983

"fogtownjohn" said:


> This has been an interesting read. It's been awhile since I did an Dish vs. DirecTV comparison and I am surprised. Currently, I have Choice Xtra (68.99) and found the Dish America's Top 250 to be a close match (69.99). Dish has the following in HD which DirecTV does not:
> 
> 8)
> 
> ENCORE
> ID
> H2
> HALL MC HD
> TCM
> DIY
> BBCHD
> FMC
> TMC
> TMC XTRA
> FXHD
> NatGeo Wild
> 
> : |
> 
> TRUTV
> TV LAND
> LMN
> E!
> STYLE
> OWN
> 
> OTHER PROS:
> You can attach an external HD to the Dish 722 DVR and still use the internal drive. Their DVR svc is $6/mo and HD is free.
> 
> CONS:
> HD offerings on Premium channels are not up to par - this is a bummer for me. Lower HD resolution? Inferior customer service - especially if it's off shore.
> 
> I've been pleased with DirecTV so switching to Dish would not be an easy choice. I'd enjoy to hear from more of you except for emotional fanboys.


Dish's website is incorrect about having the following channels from this list in HD, at this time they DO NOT have Fox Movie Channel, TMC Xtra, or TV Land. 
DirecTV has FX, Encore, and TMC Xtra.
Their website also says they have ABC Family, Disney E&W, and Disney XD in HD, which they do not. I am not sure why they have not corrected this.


----------



## Laxguy

APB101 said:


> No. 1 reason VOOM died was because it came on the market at a time that was premature. The U.S. wasn't yet into HD. Availability. Costs. VOOM was to its period what 3D is to this one.


Really? Is your opinion shared by technology/entertainment writers/analysts? 
If it was then premature, why didn't someone resurrect it when it was time?


----------



## Herdfan

Laxguy said:


> If it was then premature, why didn't someone resurrect it when it was time?


Because by that time both DirecTV and Dish had greatly expanded their HD lineups. The appeal of Voom was it provided HD channels no one else did. Once others had them its appeal was lost.


----------



## RAD

Plus, IMHO, another thing that hindered Voom was that it didn't offer local channels, either SD or HD, via DBS, you needed to use OTA to get them.


----------



## DawgLink

I see no reason to think Dish offers a better product than Directv, IMO

Love the discounts, Sunday Ticket, and reliability


----------



## Ken984

Maybe for someone else's needs, but as for me, no thanks. Dish will never be my provider. I have looked before and by the time I get a system configured like I want it the cost is way too high.

A few extra basic HD channels doesn't tip the scales for me.


----------



## slapshot1959

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> My in-laws have Dish. They chose it because they wanted Chinese programming. If you want international channels, Dish wins.
> 
> That being said, they are on their 5th HD-DVR & 2nd or 3rd dish/switch replacement. In that same time period (4 years), my orginal HR20's have just worked.
> 
> Having more channels is one thing. But if the equipment keeps failing, what good is it?


Agree with this. My parents,mother in law,aunts and uncles all have DISH for Italian programming. I think they get like 4 or 5 new channels now. (My kids and all the younger relatives all have Directv or Comcrap)

For that DISH is good, but everytime I go there and pull up the guide and see what's on, I could never live with that. For me Directv is much better (not perfect of course by any stretch) and you'd never convince me to switch.

I know it'll never happen but if Directv ever upped their international offerings, I could probably make a few hundred in referral credits for them to switch.


----------



## APB101

mkdtv21 said:


> With Dish Network offering more HD basic channels, having services like Blockbuster @ Home and still having SiriusXM channels I'm starting to think about switching to Dish. I was upset when Directv removed G4 because now I can't watch Nintendo E3 conferences anymore accept online and I was hoping the Tivo was going to be better than it is. To me the Dish Hopper looks more impressive than the HR34 and I feel the channel offerings are more to my taste on Dish. If your're not a sports fan I can't see why you would want to be with Directv and I'm not trying to be a troll I'm saying what I truly feel. I know some of you must have some of these feelings in the back of your head. Now that Directv is making a lot of profit I see them starting to become like cable. I know maybe one of you has to agree with me.


I don't think you can lose out making the move to Dish Network. With what you have described, it sounds like you can make the switch, find out if you would be okay with the service and, if not, you can come back to DirecTV.

Last summer, there was one moderator or former moderator who made the switch to AT&T U-verse. He said, quite frankly, that he and his wife weren't finding much value staying with DirecTV. That they were willing to give a competitor a try. That was six or more months ago. But I think the attitude was a good one.


----------



## jerbear4

I know most people brag up Directv because they offer many of the big sport channel packages like NFL Sunday ticket and MLB Extra Innings. To me those are the ones feeding right into their greed. I love both sports, but to get directv simply because they offer Sunday Ticket just doesn't appeal to me. I will settle for the local market team and the other games that are on tv. Plus sad thing is you can only watch one game at a time. Sure people say they got NFL ticket free with direct but that doesn't last long. Plus to me it is not worth the money you pay in the long run for those games. I like dish for it fits my budget better then what I seen the choice packages offer. I am not saying one is better but for this question I think you have to look at what you like and what they offer. Dish fits me just fine. Plus I like their smaller channel packages they offer such as Encore, HD Platinum and Epix. I can get a smaller channel package and Encore for a good price.


----------



## dpeters11

Not always true. Some of us do have PIP. I just don't use it much.


----------



## Jodean

Well having both systems at my house and being an installer for both, i got to say most of you have no clue about Dish at all, and just make up stuff to say.

First of all, Dish holds out WAY longer in HD channels during storms, Ka band goes crappy right away. For reliability, Dish is hands down better. The directv receivers seem to always be locking up and just plain acting dumb, even the new boxes. The old hr21 through' hr23 are just plain horrible, friend of mine has a hr21 and it sometimes takes 10 seconds to get into the menu or guide. Dish's receivers have been fast forever, cant even think how long its been since any of them were slow.....maybe the webtv box i had 10 years ago.

I see absolutly no picture quality difference, have both boxes hooked up to my 58" samsung plasma. Also dish no longer does the 1440 resolution that everyone talks about, thats gone and is history. Its all 1980 now.

Now the funny thing is, Directv used to have a channel list on their main site that showed both Directv and Dish's channels, and it showed all the Dish nets channels there were in HD that directv didnt have, it was something like 30 channels. I really had no idea why Directv woudl show this lineup at all, i think they were trying to show MORE HD channels, but all their list showed was highly overpriced sunday ticket and other sports add ones that were in HD so they claimed they had more channels in HD, well ya if you pay $200 a month Directv had more channles, but i dont watch ANY of these channels or care to pay for them........

So Directv has added a whole bunch of HD channels now and never really announced or advertised it. So they basically caught up with Dish, the thing that gets me is that now Directv took down that channel list right when it would have shown how they are up to par or even surpassed dish with HD channels.......makes no sense to me at all, I would have the list back up and bragging about it immediately!!!!

Direct even has some channels dish doesnt even have in SD. Some of the cinemax channels i noticed and they are all in HD, so is HBO and most of Starz......so that puts DISH way behind now......

For a free install system, Dish's hopper will for sure beat out the HR24. 

For a $100 install, the HR34 for sure blows away the hopper system. But i bet for $100 you could have 2 hoppers, so then Dish would win again.

Directv's on demand is by far above anyone elses.

Directv beats the install and flexibility points hands down with the SWM compared to 3 cables from the dish.

It sure is funny how all these Directv customers on here and bragging about Directv dont even bring up key points for the system they have.......maybe they dont even know what they can do with Directv? But yet continue to post how its better without telling why......


----------



## dpeters11

I rarely have rain fade, a few times a year maybe. That's always seemed pretty reliable to me.


----------



## inkahauts

mkdtv21 said:


> With Dish Network offering more HD basic channels, having services like Blockbuster @ Home and still having SiriusXM channels I'm starting to think about switching to Dish. I was upset when Directv removed G4 because now I can't watch Nintendo E3 conferences anymore accept online and I was hoping the Tivo was going to be better than it is. To me the Dish Hopper looks more impressive than the HR34 and I feel the channel offerings are more to my taste on Dish. If your're not a sports fan I can't see why you would want to be with Directv and I'm not trying to be a troll I'm saying what I truly feel. I know some of you must have some of these feelings in the back of your head. Now that Directv is making a lot of profit I see them starting to become like cable. I know maybe one of you has to agree with me.


For me, both companies have all the channels in hd that I watch, so that's not at all an issue.

Quality can be though, I'm picky, and I have never seen anyone say Dish is better than HD, (its been a while, but the last time I saw dish hd, it was not in the same ball park IMHO)

The hopper is a non starter for me. I stock pile many shows, and I refuse to get a dvr that requires me to baby sit it every night without fail. I would loose all kinds of recordings if I went on a vacation for more than a week. Not acceptable.

Directv's system is far more advanced in how you can set it up and integrate multiple dvrs and such. Dish hasn't even touched that realm.

Blockbuster is just ppv to me, so who cares...

The HR34 is a lot more flexible than the hopper system, although I must give dish props for the concept big time. It would be a thousands times better though if they didn't make you baby sit it. Till then, its not even a contest with the hr34 for me personally. For others, I can see how it could be perfect though...


----------



## inkahauts

Jodean said:


> Well having both systems at my house and being an installer for both, i got to say most of you have no clue about Dish at all, and just make up stuff to say.
> 
> First of all, Dish holds out WAY longer in HD channels during storms, Ka band goes crappy right away. For reliability, Dish is hands down better. The directv receivers seem to always be locking up and just plain acting dumb, even the new boxes. The old hr21 through' hr23 are just plain horrible, friend of mine has a hr21 and it sometimes takes 10 seconds to get into the menu or guide. Dish's receivers have been fast forever, cant even think how long its been since any of them were slow.....maybe the webtv box i had 10 years ago.
> 
> I see absolutly no picture quality difference, have both boxes hooked up to my 58" samsung plasma. Also dish no longer does the 1440 resolution that everyone talks about, thats gone and is history. Its all 1980 now.
> 
> Now the funny thing is, Directv used to have a channel list on their main site that showed both Directv and Dish's channels, and it showed all the Dish nets channels there were in HD that directv didnt have, it was something like 30 channels. I really had no idea why Directv woudl show this lineup at all, i think they were trying to show MORE HD channels, but all their list showed was highly overpriced sunday ticket and other sports add ones that were in HD so they claimed they had more channels in HD, well ya if you pay $200 a month Directv had more channles, but i dont watch ANY of these channels or care to pay for them........
> 
> So Directv has added a whole bunch of HD channels now and never really announced or advertised it. So they basically caught up with Dish, the thing that gets me is that now Directv took down that channel list right when it would have shown how they are up to par or even surpassed dish with HD channels.......makes no sense to me at all, I would have the list back up and bragging about it immediately!!!!
> 
> Direct even has some channels dish doesnt even have in SD. Some of the cinemax channels i noticed and they are all in HD, so is HBO and most of Starz......so that puts DISH way behind now......
> 
> For a free install system, Dish's hopper will for sure beat out the HR24.
> 
> For a $100 install, the HR34 for sure blows away the hopper system. But i bet for $100 you could have 2 hoppers, so then Dish would win again.
> 
> Directv's on demand is by far above anyone elses.
> 
> Directv beats the install and flexibility points hands down with the SWM compared to 3 cables from the dish.
> 
> It sure is funny how all these Directv customers on here and bragging about Directv dont even bring up key points for the system they have.......maybe they dont even know what they can do with Directv? But yet continue to post how its better without telling why......


!rolling


----------



## dishrich

Jodean said:


> Well having both systems at my house and being an installer for both, i got to say most of you have no clue about Dish at all, and just make up stuff to say.
> 
> It sure is funny how all these Directv customers on here and bragging about Directv dont even bring up key points for the system they have.......maybe they dont even know what they can do with Directv? But yet continue to post how its better without telling why......


While being like you, (installer & user) & while DirecTV is currently my "primary" TV provider (have small a la carte pkgs from both DISH & Comcast) - THAT is about to change for me ASAP!!! As far as I'm concerned, D* is going into the $hitter & I have had enough of it!

- I can absolutely NO longer stand this POS HD GUI "upgrade", that has made both of my HR20's unusable. OK, you CAN use it - as long as you DON'T mind waiting 20+ seconds EVERY time you attempt to execute normal, everyday functions. (open the guide, go to LIST, select a show to play, delete the show, etc.) NO HD DVR from the other 3 providers in my area (Comcast, U-verse, or DISH) has anywhere near this type of sluggishness.
The most frustrating part of it is...this "feast for the eyes" upgrade gave me ZERO benefits from the way it was before!

I've even went thru D*'s "executive customer care center" (a joke in itself!) TWICE with these issues; I ONLY did so, because the ONLY way I could get D* to even tell me if I was under any contract, was to call their "special hotline with a special PIN" to get this info, because they will NOT put it in writing via an e-mail! (I have NO intention of getting into that issue w/D* when I cancel) BOTH times the brainbox CSR's precisely read from their prepared scripts, insulting my intelligence by telling me "I can't expect these types of technological marvels to perform any better, & that this behavior is perfectly normal" - indeed! Of course, it's also perfectly normal to have to do things like "clear NV-RAM & reboot" functions every couple days; never mind that we did NOT have to go thru this BEFORE the HD-GUI.

Of course, trying to get my receivers replaced with ones that CAN perform properly (ie: HR24's, which are really the ONLY receiver in the HR2x line that can handle the HD-GUI) is NOT something this "highly technological company with over 30k subs", can handle; there is simply NO capability for them to do this at all. Again - I did NOT ask for this stupid upgrade & I did NOT cause my receivers to stop functioning normally! And, I have absolutely NO intention of paying for the privilege of getting replacement (upgraded) receivers - AND getting stuck for another 2 years to boot! 

- The fact that now we are into a quarter of 2012, & D* subs are STILL waiting on multiple basic HD channels, that THREE other providers here have ALL carried for almost TWO years now! BUT OOO OOO...we actually got ONE, SINGLE, BASIC HD CHANNEL spoon-fed out to us last week; course the ONLY reason for that one was thanks to the NCAA!

- Since we ARE saddled with so many channels in SD only, it would be more tolerable if at least the SD picture quality didn't look like VHS-SLP!

- The fact that D* has quietly decided to NOT bother doing ANY more updates on their OTA tuners, which basically makes them less useful as local stations add or change their subchannels. (we have 2 missing right now) It's even more galling that D* does not even have the balls to just tell us outright; we ONLY got this info thru multiple 3rd parties via websites like this! And ONLY D* had the stupidity of designing these tuners to be able to pick up ONLY what D* decides to feed it in their data stream in the first place - I've NEVER seen another OTA tuner made like this!

- A $5 price increase, with NO added basic HD to show for it, is an even bigger insult to me.

- It's VERY obvious to me that D* is taking "pinching pennies" to a whole new level - from (lack of) HD prog & prog drops, to "cheapening out" on their equipment design. I personally think it WILL start to come back to haunt them down the road.

- BUT by the same token, D* keeps coming out with crazy-ass delusions of things that most subs could care less about. While they can't even put up mainstream HD channels, they found the room for FOUR 3D channels - that ONLY a very tiny % of the population even cares about. Then look at their latest news release re: Ultra-HD - WOW, REALLY???
EARTH TO D* - How about beefing up some of your basic functions you still have NOT finished yet - THEN go off the deep end! 

Frankly, I truly think some of those high new sub#'s, do NOT actually exist; (think Enron) it never has made sense to me that D* is the ONLY TV provider that gets these kind of (new) sub numbers. Sorry, but their product is simply not THAT compelling over (some) of their competitors & neither is the pricing when all the promo's expire.

-----------------

So as so many people here say to do...instead of *****ing, I AM voting with my wallet, to the tune of over $100/month to D*.
If it was only a question of 1 or 2 of the issues above, I probably would not even be writing this. But the HD-GUI BS was the LAST straw!


----------



## Marlin Guy

I have been with DirecTV for several years now, but I am seriously considering switching back to Dish now.

My HR20-700 gets slower and slower every time they add some new feature (that I don't use) to the thing. :nono2:

I believe they're trying to load more onto the machine than it can handle. I don't know if it's a RAM issue or what, but they need to stop.

The new Hopper/Joey system is very appealing to me. I'm just giving it some market time and I want to see some more feedback on it before I make the switch.

Only thing I'll remotely miss would be Hotpass, but I can live without it.


----------



## MysteryMan

jerbear4 said:


> I know most people brag up Directv because they offer many of the big sport channel packages like NFL Sunday ticket and MLB Extra Innings. To me those are the ones feeding right into their greed. I love both sports, but to get directv simply because they offer Sunday Ticket just doesn't appeal to me. I will settle for the local market team and the other games that are on tv. Plus sad thing is you can only watch one game at a time. Sure people say they got NFL ticket free with direct but that doesn't last long. Plus to me it is not worth the money you pay in the long run for those games. I like dish for it fits my budget better then what I seen the choice packages offer. I am not saying one is better but for this question I think you have to look at what you like and what they offer. Dish fits me just fine. Plus I like their smaller channel packages they offer such as Encore, HD Platinum and Epix. I can get a smaller channel package and Encore for a good price.


To say that DirecTV customers who subscribe to their sports packages are feeding into their greed is absurd. For you it may not be worth the money to subscribe to a sports package but for others it is. Subscribing to a sports package gives one the ability to "choose" the games they want to see and not have to "settle" for the local market teams like you do. Yes, that ability comes with a price. But so does everything in life. There are no free rides.


----------



## ts7

"dishrich" said:


> While being like you, (installer & user) & while DirecTV is currently my "primary" TV provider (have small a la carte pkgs from both DISH & Comcast) - THAT is about to change for me ASAP!!! As far as I'm concerned, D* is going into the $hitter & I have had enough of it!
> 
> - I can absolutely NO longer stand this POS HD GUI "upgrade", that has made both of my HR20's unusable. OK, you CAN use it - as long as you DON'T mind waiting 20+ seconds EVERY time you attempt to execute normal, everyday functions. (open the guide, go to LIST, select a show to play, delete the show, etc.) NO HD DVR from the other 3 providers in my area (Comcast, U-verse, or DISH) has anywhere near this type of sluggishness.
> The most frustrating part of it is...this "feast for the eyes" upgrade gave me ZERO benefits from the way it was before!
> 
> I've even went thru D*'s "executive customer care center" (a joke in itself!) TWICE with these issues; I ONLY did so, because the ONLY way I could get D* to even tell me if I was under any contract, was to call their "special hotline with a special PIN" to get this info, because they will NOT put it in writing via an e-mail! (I have NO intention of getting into that issue w/D* when I cancel) BOTH times the brainbox CSR's precisely read from their prepared scripts, insulting my intelligence by telling me "I can't expect these types of technological marvels to perform any better, & that this behavior is perfectly normal" - indeed! Of course, it's also perfectly normal to have to do things like "clear NV-RAM & reboot" functions every couple days; never mind that we did NOT have to go thru this BEFORE the HD-GUI.
> 
> Of course, trying to get my receivers replaced with ones that CAN perform properly (ie: HR24's, which are really the ONLY receiver in the HR2x line that can handle the HD-GUI) is NOT something this "highly technological company with over 30k subs", can handle; there is simply NO capability for them to do this at all. Again - I did NOT ask for this stupid upgrade & I did NOT cause my receivers to stop functioning normally! And, I have absolutely NO intention of paying for the privilege of getting replacement (upgraded) receivers - AND getting stuck for another 2 years to boot!
> 
> - The fact that now we are into a quarter of 2012, & D* subs are STILL waiting on multiple basic HD channels, that THREE other providers here have ALL carried for almost TWO years now! BUT OOO OOO...we actually got ONE, SINGLE, BASIC HD CHANNEL spoon-fed out to us last week; course the ONLY reason for that one was thanks to the NCAA!
> 
> - Since we ARE saddled with so many channels in SD only, it would be more tolerable if at least the SD picture quality didn't look like VHS-SLP!
> 
> - The fact that D* has quietly decided to NOT bother doing ANY more updates on their OTA tuners, which basically makes them less useful as local stations add or change their subchannels. (we have 2 missing right now) It's even more galling that D* does not even have the balls to just tell us outright; we ONLY got this info thru multiple 3rd parties via websites like this! And ONLY D* had the stupidity of designing these tuners to be able to pick up ONLY what D* decides to feed it in their data stream in the first place - I've NEVER seen another OTA tuner made like this!
> 
> - A $5 price increase, with NO added basic HD to show for it, is an even bigger insult to me.
> 
> - It's VERY obvious to me that D* is taking "pinching pennies" to a whole new level - from (lack of) HD prog & prog drops, to "cheapening out" on their equipment design. I personally think it WILL start to come back to haunt them down the road.
> 
> - BUT by the same token, D* keeps coming out with crazy-ass delusions of things that most subs could care less about. While they can't even put up mainstream HD channels, they found the room for FOUR 3D channels - that ONLY a very tiny % of the population even cares about. Then look at their latest news release re: Ultra-HD - WOW, REALLY???
> EARTH TO D* - How about beefing up some of your basic functions you still have NOT finished yet - THEN go off the deep end!
> 
> Frankly, I truly think some of those high new sub#'s, do NOT actually exist; (think Enron) it never has made sense to me that D* is the ONLY TV provider that gets these kind of (new) sub numbers. Sorry, but their product is simply not THAT compelling over (some) of their competitors & neither is the pricing when all the promo's expire.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So as so many people here say to do...instead of *****ing, I AM voting with my wallet, to the tune of over $100/month to D*.
> If it was only a question of 1 or 2 of the issues above, I probably would not even be writing this. But the HD-GUI BS was the LAST straw!


Wow - you laid it out well


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> Also dish no longer does the 1440 resolution that everyone talks about, thats gone and is history. Its all 1980 now.


Can you supply how/where you know this?

While not the be all end all source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dish_Network



> In 2007, Dish Network reduced the resolution of 1080-line channels from 1920x1080 to 1440x1080. Reducing horizontal resolution and/or data rate of HD video...


----------



## joed32

jerbear4 said:


> I know most people brag up Directv because they offer many of the big sport channel packages like NFL Sunday ticket and MLB Extra Innings. To me those are the ones feeding right into their greed. I love both sports, but to get directv simply because they offer Sunday Ticket just doesn't appeal to me. I will settle for the local market team and the other games that are on tv. Plus sad thing is you can only watch one game at a time. Sure people say they got NFL ticket free with direct but that doesn't last long. Plus to me it is not worth the money you pay in the long run for those games. I like dish for it fits my budget better then what I seen the choice packages offer. I am not saying one is better but for this question I think you have to look at what you like and what they offer. Dish fits me just fine. Plus I like their smaller channel packages they offer such as Encore, HD Platinum and Epix. I can get a smaller channel package and Encore for a good price.


To many of us who live out of market and MUST see every game that our team plays then Directv with Sunday Ticket is the only choice. The NFL is a passion, not just some other programming. If it were available on any other service then I would have to make a choice, but right now there is no alternative to Directv. Money is no object when it come to something that you love.


----------



## thomas_d92

I presently have Directv but I am thinking about Dish because you can make a 211 Dish hd receiver into a dvr by paying a onetime fee of $40 and add an external drive, then you have no dvr fee. How come DTV cannot do this with thier HD receivers? I hate paying fees. I do not mind paying for programing but the fees I cannot stand. Also Dish lets you pay $99 up front and then you have HD free for life. this is another idea that DTV should use.


----------



## veryoldschool

thomas_d92 said:


> I presently have Directv but I am thinking about Dish because you can make a 211 Dish hd receiver into a dvr by paying a onetime fee of $40 and add an external drive, then you have no dvr fee. How come DTV cannot do this with thier HD receivers? I hate paying fees. I do not mind paying for programing but the fees I cannot stand. Also Dish lets you pay $99 up front and then you have HD free for life. this is another idea that DTV should use.


I think it's clear DirecTV and Dish are looking at different customers.
Dish does seem to be focusing on a group "below" the DirecTV target.
Not to suggest one customer is less than another, since "we're the customers", but in talking with DirecTV this week, their response to my questions about pricing, clearly was they don't feel that they need to lower their pricing to match other providers [in my case it was U-verse].

I know the DirecTV receivers have almost zero support for USB, so this means adding a drive to a receiver to make it a single tuner "recorder", isn't an option, and more than likely never will be.

I did some web surfing today about HD PQ, and generally you don't find too many complaints from DirecTV customers, while there are enough posts about this with Dish customers and low bit-rates, that viewers can see the difference.

Hardware posting seems to go to Dish, while PQ goes to DirecTV.

Programing only matters [maybe most important to the customer] for what the customer wants to watch. It doesn't matter who has the most, if you don't watch them.


----------



## JACKIEGAGA

NFL Sunday Ticket that's all Im saying


----------



## inkahauts

"dishrich" said:


> While being like you, (installer & user) & while DirecTV is currently my "primary" TV provider (have small a la carte pkgs from both DISH & Comcast) - THAT is about to change for me ASAP!!! As far as I'm concerned, D* is going into the $hitter & I have had enough of it!
> 
> - I can absolutely NO longer stand this POS HD GUI "upgrade", that has made both of my HR20's unusable. OK, you CAN use it - as long as you DON'T mind waiting 20+ seconds EVERY time you attempt to execute normal, everyday functions. (open the guide, go to LIST, select a show to play, delete the show, etc.) NO HD DVR from the other 3 providers in my area (Comcast, U-verse, or DISH) has anywhere near this type of sluggishness.
> The most frustrating part of it is...this "feast for the eyes" upgrade gave me ZERO benefits from the way it was before!
> 
> I've even went thru D*'s "executive customer care center" (a joke in itself!) TWICE with these issues; I ONLY did so, because the ONLY way I could get D* to even tell me if I was under any contract, was to call their "special hotline with a special PIN" to get this info, because they will NOT put it in writing via an e-mail! (I have NO intention of getting into that issue w/D* when I cancel) BOTH times the brainbox CSR's precisely read from their prepared scripts, insulting my intelligence by telling me "I can't expect these types of technological marvels to perform any better, & that this behavior is perfectly normal" - indeed! Of course, it's also perfectly normal to have to do things like "clear NV-RAM & reboot" functions every couple days; never mind that we did NOT have to go thru this BEFORE the HD-GUI.
> 
> Of course, trying to get my receivers replaced with ones that CAN perform properly (ie: HR24's, which are really the ONLY receiver in the HR2x line that can handle the HD-GUI) is NOT something this "highly technological company with over 30k subs", can handle; there is simply NO capability for them to do this at all. Again - I did NOT ask for this stupid upgrade & I did NOT cause my receivers to stop functioning normally! And, I have absolutely NO intention of paying for the privilege of getting replacement (upgraded) receivers - AND getting stuck for another 2 years to boot!
> 
> - The fact that now we are into a quarter of 2012, & D* subs are STILL waiting on multiple basic HD channels, that THREE other providers here have ALL carried for almost TWO years now! BUT OOO OOO...we actually got ONE, SINGLE, BASIC HD CHANNEL spoon-fed out to us last week; course the ONLY reason for that one was thanks to the NCAA!
> 
> - Since we ARE saddled with so many channels in SD only, it would be more tolerable if at least the SD picture quality didn't look like VHS-SLP!
> 
> - The fact that D* has quietly decided to NOT bother doing ANY more updates on their OTA tuners, which basically makes them less useful as local stations add or change their subchannels. (we have 2 missing right now) It's even more galling that D* does not even have the balls to just tell us outright; we ONLY got this info thru multiple 3rd parties via websites like this! And ONLY D* had the stupidity of designing these tuners to be able to pick up ONLY what D* decides to feed it in their data stream in the first place - I've NEVER seen another OTA tuner made like this!
> 
> - A $5 price increase, with NO added basic HD to show for it, is an even bigger insult to me.
> 
> - It's VERY obvious to me that D* is taking "pinching pennies" to a whole new level - from (lack of) HD prog & prog drops, to "cheapening out" on their equipment design. I personally think it WILL start to come back to haunt them down the road.
> 
> - BUT by the same token, D* keeps coming out with crazy-ass delusions of things that most subs could care less about. While they can't even put up mainstream HD channels, they found the room for FOUR 3D channels - that ONLY a very tiny % of the population even cares about. Then look at their latest news release re: Ultra-HD - WOW, REALLY???
> EARTH TO D* - How about beefing up some of your basic functions you still have NOT finished yet - THEN go off the deep end!
> 
> Frankly, I truly think some of those high new sub#'s, do NOT actually exist; (think Enron) it never has made sense to me that D* is the ONLY TV provider that gets these kind of (new) sub numbers. Sorry, but their product is simply not THAT compelling over (some) of their competitors & neither is the pricing when all the promo's expire.
> 
> -----------------
> 
> So as so many people here say to do...instead of *****ing, I AM voting with my wallet, to the tune of over $100/month to D*.
> If it was only a question of 1 or 2 of the issues above, I probably would not even be writing this. But the HD-GUI BS was the LAST straw!


The long delays, if you have them, will go away. They are a bug...

And while some people have issues with the hr20 and such n the new hd GUI, not everyone does. In fact I'd guess most don't, I have no issues with it, and neither do my folks, believe me, I'd hear about that big time....

Everyone increases prices, dish likes to raise them more but then only do it every other year sometimes, so it may look less but isn't.

Are you really complaint about 4k? I mean that's not coming for years and years. I doubt they have worked on it at all yet... That's just future talk, just like hd was in the early 90s. If they don't carry your channels that others do, that's a great reason to switch. There is not a single thing I watch that DirecTV doesn't provide in hd, that's not an issue for me, but if my locals are favorite shows where missing, I'd probably change too...


----------



## inkahauts

"Marlin Guy" said:


> I have been with DirecTV for several years now, but I am seriously considering switching back to Dish now.
> 
> My HR20-700 gets slower and slower every time they add some new feature (that I don't use) to the thing. :nono2:
> 
> I believe they're trying to load more onto the machine than it can handle. I don't know if it's a RAM issue or what, but they need to stop.
> 
> The new Hopper/Joey system is very appealing to me. I'm just giving it some market time and I want to see some more feedback on it before I make the switch.
> 
> Only thing I'll remotely miss would be Hotpass, but I can live without it.


Get an hr34....


----------



## inkahauts

"veryoldschool" said:


> Can you supply how/where you know this?
> 
> While not the be all end all source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dish_Network


Considering dish uses half the hard drive space for an hour of recording that DirecTV does, dish is doing something to their signal to make it fit that DirecTV isn't. I'd rather be missing a couple channels than screw up the signals like dish is obviously doing.


----------



## inkahauts

"thomas_d92" said:


> I presently have Directv but I am thinking about Dish because you can make a 211 Dish hd receiver into a dvr by paying a onetime fee of $40 and add an external drive, then you have no dvr fee. How come DTV cannot do this with thier HD receivers? I hate paying fees. I do not mind paying for programing but the fees I cannot stand. Also Dish lets you pay $99 up front and then you have HD free for life. this is another idea that DTV should use.


Dish doesn't charge you monthly to use the 211?


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> Dish doesn't charge you monthly to use the 211?


The 211 is an oddity in the lineup. It is just a receiver with one SAT and one OTA tuner, but if you pay the one-time $40 fee, you can add an EHD and make it into a DVR with no monthly DVR fee.


----------



## dishrich

inkahauts said:


> The long delays, if you have them, will go away. They are a bug...


Yea, about as fast as it took D* to add all those missing HBO/MAX HD feeds...that they originally said would be added over 2-3 YEARS ago.  
Sorry, but I'm so DONE waiting on them to fix all their "bugs", as well as on all the missing basic HD we should ALREADY have had by now!
Bottom line is that this software should have NEVER been rolled out in the current state that it is now.



> And while some people have issues with the hr20 and such n the new hd GUI, not everyone does. In fact I'd guess most don't, I have no issues with it, and neither do my folks, believe me, I'd hear about that big time....


Well you must be VERY lucky then...because I AM hearing it big time, from many clients, all with different HR2x versions. And most of them are getting as fed up with this crap as I am. Probably because they (too) realize this is NOT "normal operation" for a DVR - regardless of how much D* CSR's & fanboys say otherwise. They are asking me what can be done - my answer is "they need to vote with THEIR wallets" as well...

Of course, I'm sure there's lots of other folks that are tired of these software issues as well - but have bought into the same lies the D* CSR's tried to convince me on. (but didn't...)



> Dish doesn't charge you monthly to use the 211?


No, & that $40 is good for ALL 211's on your account. So, you could have 4 211 receivers & it would only cost you $10 one-time to have DVR on ALL of them.
Also they do NOT charge anything to use EHD's on DVR receivers, nor is there any limit on how many EHD's you can use. The ONLY limitation is that you cannot swap an EHD from a 211 with any (actual) DVR receiver, & visa versa. 
You can also swap EHD's among ALL your DVR's tied to your account; they are NOT tied only to a specific receiver. Yet another reason why I want to switch; there is NO reason D* couldn't have done this as well


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> The 211 is an oddity in the lineup. It is just a receiver with one SAT and one OTA tuner, but if you pay the one-time $40 fee, you can add an EHD and make it into a DVR with no monthly DVR fee.


Guess the next question would be:
Since DirecTV has only one DVR fee/account, and does have another for each receiver, How does Dish handle these?
If I have one DVR, then the next receiver doesn't cost me anymore if it's a DVR.


----------



## veryoldschool

dishrich said:


> Well you must be VERY lucky then...because I AM hearing it big time, from many clients, all with different HR2x versions. And most of them are getting as fed up with this crap as I am. Probably because they (too) realize this is NOT "normal operation" for a DVR - regardless of how much D* CSR's & fanboys say otherwise.
> 
> Of course, I'm sure there's lots of other folks that are tired of these software issues as well - but have bought into the same lies the D* CSR's tried to convince me on. (but didn't...)


Not sure it has much to do with "luck". 
Mine haven't ever been as bad as posts I've read here.
I'm sure if mine were, then I'd be in the same boat you're in.


----------



## lparsons21

Dish and Direct do the DVR fee the same. One fee per account.

The one exception is the 211 if it is the only 'dvr' on the account.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> Dish and Direct do the DVR fee the same. One fee per account.
> 
> The one exception is the 211 if it is the only 'dvr' on the account.


Thanks,
As I posted earlier, Dish seems to have the hardware advantage, and this looks like another option, like their ability to feed 2 TVs different programming, from the same [and only] receiver.
MRV works great here, but does require a client receiver.


----------



## akw4572

I'm thinking seriously of switching with the new Hopper DVR, it would save me $20 a month. I've more than fulfilled my commitment with Direct, just seems like a good idea. I would potentially miss Disney HD and ESPNU HD, but I can live with that to save the $20.


----------



## veryoldschool

akw4572 said:


> I'm thinking seriously of switching...


I've posted this here before, but figure it's worth repeating.
Everyone should investigate their options.
If you can get a 30 day free test drive, try it. 
You'll have nothing to lose and everything to gain. 
U-verse knocked on my door a few weeks ago and set me up with a 30 day trial.
Since DirecTV's sports packages aren't interesting to me, U-who looked to have similar programing. Even after any discounted pricing, they look to have a package that would save me $20/month too AND I'd have another premium movie package too. Quite tempting at first.
Two weeks of playing with their system, shows me why I'll be staying with DirecTV, and their stuff is on the way out of here.

Someone else may find the things I hate, don't bother them, so it would be a good deal.

TV watching should be enjoyable, and if yours isn't, you should make a change to find one that is.

There is no "one service is the best for everyone". Your mileage Will vary.


----------



## inkahauts

"dishrich" said:


> Yea, about as fast as it took D* to add all those missing HBO/MAX HD feeds...that they originally said would be added over 2-3 YEARS ago.
> Sorry, but I'm so DONE waiting on them to fix all their "bugs", as well as on all the missing basic HD we should ALREADY have had by now!
> Bottom line is that this software should have NEVER been rolled out in the current state that it is now.
> 
> Well you must be VERY lucky then...because I AM hearing it big time, from many clients, all with different HR2x versions. And most of them are getting as fed up with this crap as I am. Probably because they (too) realize this is NOT "normal operation" for a DVR - regardless of how much D* CSR's & fanboys say otherwise. They are asking me what can be done - my answer is "they need to vote with THEIR wallets" as well...
> 
> Of course, I'm sure there's lots of other folks that are tired of these software issues as well - but have bought into the same lies the D* CSR's tried to convince me on. (but didn't...)
> 
> No, & that $40 is good for ALL 211's on your account. So, you could have 4 211 receivers & it would only cost you $10 one-time to have DVR on ALL of them.
> Also they do NOT charge anything to use EHD's on DVR receivers, nor is there any limit on how many EHD's you can use. The ONLY limitation is that you cannot swap an EHD from a 211 with any (actual) DVR receiver, & visa versa.
> You can also swap EHD's among ALL your DVR's tied to your account; they are NOT tied only to a specific receiver. Yet another reason why I want to switch; there is NO reason D* couldn't have done this as well


A bug that just showed up with the last relase and will likely disappear with the next release, that doesn't affect the majority of the population. Yeah that's the same thing as the hbo debacle...

Again, the "missing hd channels " are a great reason to look at options and change. Every provide is missing something. Find a ny sports fan that likes dish.... DirecTV carries everything some people want and is missing lots others want. I'd change too if that was an issue, it's just not for me...

And I don't blame one person for being mad at the slowness of the dvrs that you are experiencing. Bt you make it sound like its been this way forever, and yet it hasn't been, and if anything, even a slow dvr may be faster than they used to be overall if you where doing a lot of guide surfing. That I was effected by and drove me nuts, how my hr21 would take forever to scroll through the guide....

Very interesting what they have wth the 211. Ok, so how much per month is it to have five 211s on your account, not counting the 40 to activate the dvr service?


----------



## P Smith

first 211 if 'free', next four will cost you 4x$7 = $28/mo, not counting one time $40 fee for ALL 211s


----------



## davidatl14

I'm Happy with DirecTV though I understand fully why others may not be.


As VOS pointed out eloquently above, different things take differing priorities for individual viewers.

What I hope we can all agree on is if you are unhappy, vote with your wallet.

ETF's be damned. Life is far too short to become bitter over your Choice of TV provider.


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> And I don't blame one person for being mad at the slowness of the dvrs that you are experiencing. Bt you make it sound like its been this way forever, and yet it hasn't been, and if anything, even a slow dvr may be faster than they used to be overall if you where doing a lot of guide surfing. That I was effected by and drove me nuts, how my hr21 would take forever to scroll through the guide....


Slow and D* HRs has been a complaint since nearly the first HR hit the street. The one and only HR I've seen that isn't slow was the HR24s before they put the HDGUI on them.

In fact there have been polls right here showing slowness as the single major irritant of the HRs. No other issue has shown up more or been complained about more.


----------



## archer75

I think both have their pros and cons. Direct has more sports, dish out of contract pricing is better. All depends on whats more important to you.

I switch between them regularly. All depends on who has the better deals at a given time.


----------



## inkahauts

"lparsons21" said:


> Slow and D* HRs has been a complaint since nearly the first HR hit the street. The one and only HR I've seen that isn't slow was the HR24s before they put the HDGUI on them.
> 
> In fact there have been polls right here showing slowness as the single major irritant of the HRs. No other issue has shown up more or been complained about more.


Slow and not quick are different things. What they are having issues with on some hrs right now is glacial slow beyond what we have ever seen in the past. And my hr24 is as fast now with the hd GUI as it was with the sd GUI, are you saying its not?


----------



## Davenlr

My parents have an HR21, and I visited there last week after they got the HDGUI, and hit GUIDE 4 times (literally, thinking I wasnt pointing the remote right, or the batteries were dead) before the guide actually came up. I asked if its always this slow, and my dad said yep, just gets worse every time they send new program to it. The HR20-700 in the kitchen wasnt to bad, but still twice as slow as my HR24-500. 

After using a HR24 and HR34, there is no way I would EVER use one of those older boxes. I dont see how they even put up with it. Id be pitching a fit.


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> Slow and not quick are different things. What they are having issues with on some hrs right now is glacial slow beyond what we have ever seen in the past. And my hr24 is as fast now with the hd GUI as it was with the sd GUI, are you saying its not?


My 3 HR24-500s are slower now than when they had the old SDGUI. I was very pleased with them then, not happy at all with them now. I see the same pattern in the software updates for them as I've seen on the other HRs.

I'll be with D* until August for sure, but if the speed issues aren't solved by then, I'll terminate my subscription.


----------



## Jodean

inkahauts said:


> Considering dish uses half the hard drive space for an hour of recording that DirecTV does, dish is doing something to their signal to make it fit that DirecTV isn't. I'd rather be missing a couple channels than screw up the signals like dish is obviously doing.


Where exactly does this come from?

722 has 500gb drive holds 60 hours of HD

hr24 has 500gb drive, holds 100 hours of HD


----------



## inkahauts

"Jodean" said:


> Where exactly does this come from?
> 
> 722 has 500gb drive holds 60 hours of HD
> 
> hr24 has 500gb drive, holds 100 hours of HD


According to a mod in the dish area, your numbers are wrong. It's about 2 gigs an hour on their hard drives, and I know DirecTV is about 4 gigs an hour.

And there is no way a 500 gig hard drive would only hold 60 hours of programing, unless it's mpeg2. Maybe you are looking at specs based on meg 2 recordings...


----------



## veryoldschool

inkahauts said:


> According to a mod in the dish area, your numbers are wrong.


Not to pile on here too, "but" just got a PM confirming the 1440 x 1080 for 1080i is still being done by Dish, so there's another "myth", that isn't.
Dish is reducing resolution by 25%.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> hr24 has 500gb drive, holds 100 hours of HD


So since 100 GB isn't used by the viewer, this leaves 400 GB, for 100 hours, or 4 GB/hour.


----------



## veryoldschool

inkahauts said:


> According to a mod in the dish area, your numbers are wrong. It's about 2 gigs an hour on their hard drives.


I think U-verse and Dish are on par with each other for bit-rates, and the Motorola DVR gives me 2.5 GB/hour for HD, and 0.92 GB/hour for SD. Both are MPEG-4.


----------



## cmich

Dish is a cheap alternative to cable but is getting a little better....i dont think it should try to be more than it is...if you want the Cadillac of television, get DirecTV...they offer the most features and are still cheaper than cable.


----------



## Red Orc

veryoldschool said:


> I've posted this here before, but figure it's worth repeating.
> Everyone should investigate their options.
> If you can get a 30 day free test drive, try it.
> You'll have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
> U-verse knocked on my door a few weeks ago and set me up with a 30 day trial.
> Since DirecTV's sports packages aren't interesting to me, U-who looked to have similar programing. Even after any discounted pricing, they look to have a package that would save me $20/month too AND I'd have another premium movie package too. Quite tempting at first.
> Two weeks of playing with their system, shows me why I'll be staying with DirecTV, and their stuff is on the way out of here.
> 
> Someone else may find the things I hate, don't bother them, so it would be a good deal.
> 
> TV watching should be enjoyable, and if yours isn't, you should make a change to find one that is.
> 
> There is no "one service is the best for everyone". Your mileage Will vary.


What was it about uVerse that you didn't like? I doubt if it will ever be available where I live but you never know.


----------



## dpeters11

The biggest complaint I've seen is the limited number of HD streams.


----------



## veryoldschool

dpeters11 said:


> The biggest complaint I've seen is the limited number of HD streams.


I've got the highest "profile", which is 3 HD recordings, + 1 HD to watch.
Might be a limitation with more than one viewer, but with the east/west channels they have, and a bit of juggling of series link times/channels, I don't think this would be a problem for me. I rarely record four shows at the same time, so the 3 recording limit would work.


----------



## Jodean

inkahauts said:


> According to a mod in the dish area, your numbers are wrong. It's about 2 gigs an hour on their hard drives, and I know DirecTV is about 4 gigs an hour.
> 
> And there is no way a 500 gig hard drive would only hold 60 hours of programing, unless it's mpeg2. Maybe you are looking at specs based on meg 2 recordings...


My numbers are indeed NOT wrong.

My 722 when empty says available record time for HD is 60 hours.

And the HR24 does indeed hold 100 hours of HD

While im not stating any 2 gigs or 4 gigs per hour and compressed or not, I just know my numbers are correct.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> My numbers are indeed NOT wrong.
> 
> My 722 when empty says available record time for HD is 60 hours.
> 
> And the HR24 does indeed hold 100 hours of HD
> 
> While im not stating any 2 gigs or 4 gigs per hour and compressed or not, I just know my numbers are correct.


I'm not going to doubt what you're seeing.
I will say though, it isn't the whole picture.
60 hours of Dish HD will only take up about 120"ish" GB, so that just isn't much for a DVR these days, with MPEG-4.


----------



## Jodean

veryoldschool said:


> Not to pile on here too, "but" just got a PM confirming the 1440 x 1080 for 1080i is still being done by Dish, so there's another "myth", that isn't.
> Dish is reducing resolution by 25%.


There is alot more into it than just pixels and compression numbers. I spent one entire day reading about this hype.

One of the wiki things that you claim is always right says something about directv sending HD in 1280x1080 resolution.

While these are just specs, compression using MPEG4 basically compresses the resolution and re inflates it at the receivers, so it really doesnt matter what spec is pushed up to the sat, and back down, the real resolution is what is coming out after the MPEG4 decompression which these numbers dont provide that answer.

And dish definitely not reducing the pq by 25%

Both providers have the signal compressed then uncompressed. They are both reducing resolution.


----------



## Jodean

veryoldschool said:


> I'm not going to doubt what you're seeing.
> I will say though, it isn't the whole picture.
> 60 hours of Dish HD will only take up about 120"ish" GB, so that just isn't much for a DVR these days, with MPEG-4.


I agree, that is completely stupid, why cant i use the rest of my hard drive?? But ya i can only get 60 hours, i have mine full now, its actuall less than 60 hours i have some OTA HD on it.

The 2gb per hour is correct though, my external drive claims up 4.5 gb for a 2 hour movie

I have nothing to confirm directv 4gb per hour, or if they compress before its saved. Dont forget formatting usually uses about 10% of the drive


----------



## Davenlr

Jodean said:


> Both providers have the signal compressed then uncompressed. They are both reducing resolution.


Two totally different things. Even Blu Rays are compressed. But Directv, while using the same compression as the others, is not reducing the resolution like Dish does.

Once the resolution is reduced, you can not recover it. If you could, they wouldnt need two separate feeds.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> There is alot more into it than just pixels and compression numbers. I spent one entire day reading about this hype.
> 
> One of the wiki things that you claim is always right says something about directv sending HD in 1280x1080 resolution.
> 
> While these are just specs, compression using MPEG4 basically compresses the resolution and re inflates it at the receivers, so it really doesnt matter what spec is pushed up to the sat, and back down, the real resolution is what is coming out after the MPEG4 decompression which these numbers dont provide that answer.
> 
> And dish definitely not reducing the pq by 25%
> 
> Both providers have the signal compressed then uncompressed. They are both reducing resolution.


You need to look more into it.
The old MPEG-2 DirecTV HD was reduced to 1280x1080, and then averaged in the receiver back to 1920x1080.
When DirecTV moved to MPEG-4, someone was able to read the header information in the feed, which is where the real info comes from. This was how the old 1280x1080 came from.
The MPEG-4 header shows it is 1920x1080.
The same header information can be [and has been] read from the Dish header information and still shows it to be 1440x 1088. You could read this off your hard drive in the 722 too I've been told by someone who is doing these measurements.
The next part of "compression" is just like a digital JPEG. You can save it with a large file size, or you can compress the hell out of it and have a small file size, but it looks like crap.
There is always a balance of how to remove bits [information] and how good/bad the image looks doing so. Removing 1 pixel every 3 or 4, makes averaging it back in not very noticeable, where increasing the pixel bock size [the jpeg way] does.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> I have nothing to confirm directv 4gb per hour.


I do which has helped me to get/verify some of these "numbers". 
DirecTV2PC will stream the file straight from the drive and I have software than reads the router ports bit-rates over time.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> Once the resolution is reduced, you can not recover it.


True, but the receivers do a fairly good job of averaging it back in. It may soften the edges in some cases, but if the pixels on either side of the missing pixel are the same or very similar, then the averaged [created] pixel is going to be darn close to what was removed.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> Dont forget formatting usually uses about 10% of the drive


The earliest HR20 had a 300 GB drive, with the same 100 GB the user can't use. 30 hours of MPEG-2 HD [OTA], or 50 hours MPEG-4 HD, were the "specs".


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> True, but the receivers do a fairly good job of averaging it back in. It may soften the edges in some cases, but if the pixels on either side of the missing pixel are the same or very similar, then the averaged [created] pixel is going to be darn close to what was removed.


Which is why the E* picture is technically inferior, but in viewing it isn't discernible by most users, or if it is, it is noted as being a slight bit different but not necessarily better.

I have a good plasma TV that makes both D* and E* look wonderful in HD. E* SD holds up really good too, especially on the Eastern Arc. D* SD OTOH, is deplorable, but can be somewhat improved by letting my TV do the conversion vice the HR by using Native On. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I calibrated my plasma soon after buying it.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> Which is why the E* picture is technically inferior, but in viewing it isn't discernible by most users, or if it is, it is noted as being a slight bit different but not necessarily better.
> 
> I have a good plasma TV that makes both D* and E* look wonderful in HD. E* SD holds up really good too, especially on the Eastern Arc. D* SD OTOH, is deplorable, but can be somewhat improved by letting my TV do the conversion vice the HR by using Native On. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I calibrated my plasma soon after buying it.


Most, if not "all of this" comes down to the viewer's perception.
My Sony XBR can zoom a 16:9 SD [boxed on all edges] channel to full screen and "not look bad" off DirecTV. It ain't HD, but it looks much better than the HR "crop" format does, and with my Vizio, not much of anything really "looks good". :lol:


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> Most, if not "all of this" comes down to the viewer's perception.
> My Sony XBR can zoom a 16:9 SD [boxed on all edges] channel to full screen and "not look bad" off DirecTV. It ain't HD, but it looks much better than the HR "crop" format does, and with my Vizio, not much of anything really "looks good". :lol:


I haven't tried that 'zoom' method, I'll give it a try. Maybe I won't think Doctor Who pictures sucks so much!


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> I haven't tried that 'zoom' method, I'll give it a try. Maybe I won't think Doctor Who pictures sucks so much!


You might want to pull them off of On Demand.
The SD SAT feeds reduce the resolution to 480x480, and they don't use all of that in letterbox, so you've got so little to start with.
The On demand seems to be the unaltered version. I noticed this with Top Gear and The Hour from BBCA. The On demand programs were longer because they hadn't been edited for commercials. "The Hour" over the SAT was 45 mins of programing, but was an one hour show.


----------



## lparsons21

I'll try that too.

letting the TV do the growing didn't improve the picture


----------



## gfrang

I have tried every way of zooming,now it is native on original format and i will never change it again,well for now anyway.


----------



## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> You might want to pull them off of On Demand.
> The SD SAT feeds reduce the resolution to *480x480*, and they don't use all of that in letterbox, so you've got so little to start with.
> The On demand seems to be the unaltered version. I noticed this with Top Gear and The Hour from BBCA. The On demand programs were longer because they hadn't been edited for commercials. "The Hour" over the SAT was 45 mins of programing, but was an one hour show.


Some of them went to 352x480 ...


----------



## inkahauts

"veryoldschool" said:


> The earliest HR20 had a 300 GB drive, with the same 100 GB the user can't use. 30 hours of MPEG-2 HD [OTA], or 50 hours MPEG-4 HD, were the "specs".


Yeah, any mpeg2 and especially ota will also reduce the amount of hours you can record on any of these dvrs. Especially ota....

Both dish and DirecTV should actually record about the same amount of hours of ota hd per gig on the exact same channel and program.


----------



## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> Some of them went to 352x480 ...


That looks very close to what it would be for an SD channel sending a 16x9 program.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Jodean said:


> My numbers are indeed NOT wrong.
> 
> My 722 when empty says available record time for HD is 60 hours.
> 
> And the HR24 does indeed hold 100 hours of HD
> 
> While im not stating any 2 gigs or 4 gigs per hour and compressed or not, I just know my numbers are correct.


Your 722 lies and is only estimating. Record an hour and notice what your time remaining says.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

I lived with Dish for a few days while I was on vacation last summer. We hated it. We really like DirecTV a lot. Great technology, great sports.

No, they don't have the most HD, which stinks, but you can't have everything. Besides, I want QUALITY over quantity.


----------



## ChicagoBlue

dishrich said:


> - The fact that now we are into a quarter of 2012, & D* subs are STILL waiting on multiple basic HD channels, that THREE other providers here have ALL carried for almost TWO years now! BUT OOO OOO...we actually got ONE, SINGLE, BASIC HD CHANNEL spoon-fed out to us last week; course the ONLY reason for that one was thanks to the NCAA!


This is nonsense. DTV has HD channels that other competitors have and some that don't. No one has it all. I've told people here for more than a year it's a bandwidth issue and no one wants to believe me. I've been in the business for well over 20 years, I know what I'm talking about. Because they use their bandwidth for NFL, NASCAR, MLB and other part time programming they can't add some of the channels you want. At least not yet. That is the tradeoff, but they do continue to add HD channels and we've been told more are coming this year by reputable sources. God forbid you don't have Game Show Network in HD. :lol:



dishrich said:


> - Since we ARE saddled with so many channels in SD only, it would be more tolerable if at least the SD picture quality didn't look like VHS-SLP!


Sounds like you have a setup problem. My SD channels look pretty good. No worse than my neighbors SD channels and they aren't DTV customers.



dishrich said:


> - A $5 price increase, with NO added basic HD to show for it, is an even bigger insult to me.


Another red herring. My gas price keeps going up at the pump. Am I getting more mileage out of it? Does my car run more efficiently? Complete nonsense on your part. Did ESPN raise the prices on DTV? Did HBO? Did CBS? Did Fox with their very public squabble end of last year? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Did DTV get any more channels out of it? No. Those prices are going to be passed on to the customer. Show me another provider that isn't raising prices annually (don't say DISH because they did a double increase last year to cover this year).



dishrich said:


> - It's VERY obvious to me that D* is taking "pinching pennies" to a whole new level - from (lack of) HD prog & prog drops, to "cheapening out" on their equipment design. I personally think it WILL start to come back to haunt them down the road.


Dire predictions have been made before and they keep on rolling.



dishrich said:


> - BUT by the same token, D* keeps coming out with crazy-ass delusions of things that most subs could care less about. While they can't even put up mainstream HD channels, they found the room for FOUR 3D channels - that ONLY a very tiny % of the population even cares about. Then look at their latest news release re: Ultra-HD - WOW, REALLY???
> EARTH TO D* - How about beefing up some of your basic functions you still have NOT finished yet - THEN go off the deep end!


DTV didn't put out a press release on Ultra HD. It was at a conference talking about future of television. 3D was also the future of television a few years ago and DTV jumped on it first to launch these channels. It didn't work. They have contracts, you can't just drop 3D programming without violating contacts. Not a bright idea. We're talking years away for 4K. In the meantime they are beefing up HD and continue to. You seem to be the one off the deep end.



dishrich said:


> Frankly, I truly think some of those high new sub#'s, do NOT actually exist; (think Enron) it never has made sense to me that D* is the ONLY TV provider that gets these kind of (new) sub numbers. Sorry, but their product is simply not THAT compelling over (some) of their competitors & neither is the pricing when all the promo's expire.


One, you truly don't understand what Enron was about if you are making that statement. Talk about apples to oranges. Two, you are dead wrong on the subscriber accusations. They are audited by the programmers because that is how the programmers get paid. If the books were being cooked, then the programmers would uncover it. I used to be on that side of the business. Your claims are outrageous and just patently wrong.

-----------------


dishrich said:


> So as so many people here say to do...instead of *****ing, I AM voting with my wallet, to the tune of over $100/month to D*.
> If it was only a question of 1 or 2 of the issues above, I probably would not even be writing this. But the HD-GUI BS was the LAST straw!


Seems like you should. If you are a seller you should no longer sell DTV either as it is clear you have a bias against their service. You claim DTV lacks the balls to tell you about OTA and other things. Do you have the balls to stop selling a service you deem isn't up to par?


----------



## inf0z

Jodean said:


> My numbers are indeed NOT wrong.
> 
> My 722 when empty says available record time for HD is 60 hours.
> 
> And the HR24 does indeed hold 100 hours of HD
> 
> While im not stating any 2 gigs or 4 gigs per hour and compressed or not, I just know my numbers are correct.


I just wanted to point something out in this discussion. MPEG-4 file sizes will vary between two different recordings of the same length. Since MPEG-4 is coded in layers, size will depend on how much the foreground, background, and new regions change.

Example: 5 minuets of a high paced action seen where the background is continually changing, stuff is exploding and flying everywhere will take up more space than 5 minuets dialogue between two people from the same camera angel.


----------



## Davenlr

Also depends on whether you are recording 720p or 1080i channels...


----------



## MattScahum

Originally Posted by dishrich 
Frankly, I truly think some of those high new sub#'s, do NOT actually exist; (think Enron) it never has made sense to me that D* is the ONLY TV provider that gets these kind of (new) sub numbers. Sorry, but their product is simply not THAT compelling over (some) of their competitors & neither is the pricing when all the promo's expire.

Do you honestly think those numbers are doctored? I've been in the sales department for 2 years now and I can honestly say it is 100% accurate. D* puts alot of pressure on the agents to represent the company as good as possible all while driving the bottom line (that is the goal of business, to make money right?). NFL ticket time is especially crazy. In my center alone before I was promoted to Supervisor I was an agent taking calls this football season. 15-20 sales in an 8 hour shift was commonplace. Thats per agent, multiplied by 80-90 agents in a site. 5 work days per agent per week. 10-15 sites with equal numbers doing the same thing. 70% of sales made activate so the growth is extremely feasible.
As for comparing pricing when all promos expire, if you compare EQUAL service (programming/dvr service/extras like protection/etc) D* and E* will almost always come out to be very similar in pricing. The difference lies in the added cost for equipment. For a household that wants multiple tvs to have HD access and independent viewing, D* will be less expensive due to not charging different pricing for different receivers. If your looking for the "lowest price" for basic service with minimal extras, then D* is not for you, and I have no problem telling that to someone.
The thing some on both sides of this issue don't seem to understand is that there are things the vast majority of customers care about and some things that are minor in their eyes.
1. HD channel count. I have NEVER lost a sale because someone found out the BBC/DIY/HLN/E! was not in HD. I have lost sales because it is required to have a receiver in each room (dual tuner customer with DISH). As long as a company provides the essentials in HD (locals/espn/tnt/tbs/usa/lifetime/bravo/hgtv/history/nat geo are the ones I've been personally been asked about but you get the idea).
2. User interface. I have people call in daily to switch because Comcast/Time Warner/Charter and even Dish have menus/guides/interfaces that either are hard to use or just weird to get used to(that comes from cable mainly).

Most customers we get that don't sign up end up being because to get what they want or have currently equipment-wise may cost to much upfront. It does cost a little bit upfront if you want a HMC/multiple HD DVRS/more than 4 rooms with HD equipment. You get that free with cable and some Dish/ATT/Verizon customers have been there long enough to earn discounted equipment that would be hard to do on a whim. The initial Delivery and handling causes concern as well sometimes, as does the policy against knowingly trying to use a prepaid card for that initial payment. Some also don't want a credit check or 2 yr agreement. I see those WAY more than the little things, which honestly is what we on these kind of forums tend to focus on.


----------



## dah_sab

"dpeters11" said:


> Not always true. Some of us do have PIP. I just don't use it much.


Some of us have 3 TVs side by side. We had 4 at one time, but didn't replace the 4th when it kicked the bucket. We can't be the only household with multiple TVs.


----------



## Daniel

As of this morning, I am no longer a DirecTV customer. I've had it with the dog slow HR21, which was only made worse by the HD GUI. I was holding out a little hope that the DirectTiVoHD was going to solve some problems, but DirecTV made sure that it arrived too late and crippled. 

So I had a choice, upgrade to the HR34 or jump ship. I chose to jump ship. My new 2 Hopper/2 Joey system was installed yesterday and it is working great.

The funny thing was, that when I called to cancel, Retention offered to get me two HR24 as replacements. Now I've been around long enough to know that even Retention cannot guarantee a specific model and told him so. I think that he really thought that he could do it, which I REALLY doubt, but it was just too little, too late.

Oh, and now I get BBC America in HD. Something else that DirecTV is taking too long to do...


----------



## RACJ2

Daniel said:


> As of this morning, I am no longer a DirecTV customer. I've had it with the dog slow HR21, which was only made worse by the HD GUI. I was holding out a little hope that the DirectTiVoHD was going to solve some problems, but DirecTV made sure that it arrived too late and crippled.
> 
> So I had a choice, upgrade to the HR34 or jump ship. I chose to jump ship. My new 2 Hopper/2 Joey system was installed yesterday and it is working great.
> 
> The funny thing was, that when I called to cancel, Retention offered to get me two HR24 as replacements. Now I've been around long enough to know that even Retention cannot guarantee a specific model and told him so. I think that he really thought that he could do it, which I REALLY doubt, but it was just too little, too late.
> 
> Oh, and now I get BBC America in HD. Something else that DirecTV is taking too long to do...


Sounds like your happy and that's what matters. Good luck! And on the HR24, yes they can send you an HR24, if they choose to do so. Its not the norm, but it has been done many times in the past. After talking to retention, I was actually able to get an HR34 to replace my failing HR22 for no charge.


----------



## Hoosier205

Dish could only be better if DirecTV ceased to exist. People who care very little for the quality of a product choose Dish Network.


----------



## Richierich

Daniel said:


> The funny thing was, that when I called to cancel, Retention offered to get me two HR24 as replacements. Now I've been around long enough to know that even Retention cannot guarantee a specific model and told him so. I think that he really thought that he could do it, which I REALLY doubt, but it was just too little, too late.


Well, I did a Favor for Directv and Ellen Filipiak's Office (Vice President for Customer Service) had 2 HR24-500s delivered to my home so it is possible but it would have to be approved by a Higher Up Manager Type in the Customer Retention Dept. as a Last Resort to keep you as a Directv Customer.


----------



## Richierich

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish could only be better if DirecTV ceased to exist. People who care very little for the quality of a product choose Dish Network.


+1000.


----------



## Daniel

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish could only be better if DirecTV ceased to exist. People who care very little for the quality of a product choose Dish Network.


I know y'all keep saying that, but I'm just not seeing it anymore. Dish's new hardware is better, their website is better, they are cheaper, the Dish installer was knowledgeable unlike the idiot that DirecTV sent out the last time that I finally had to throw off my property and finish the install myself.

The ONLY reason that I could see in keeping DirecTV anymore would be if you wanted one of the sport packages that Dish doesn't offer (which I didn't.)

I was a little leery about going over to Dish, but so far it has been a very pleasant experience.


----------



## dpeters11

Some of it is too subjective. Hopper is better for some, HR34 better hardware for others. Hopper would have fairly limited use for me as we just don't watch that much network programming. For others, it's a good solution.


----------



## veryoldschool

There simply isn't a "one size fits all".
I'm not going to knock anyone that finds Dish fits their needs better than DirecTV does. "It's their needs", not mine.
Now something "new" may always have a bit more attraction than something "old". That too is human nature.
For everyone that finds a service they like: GREAT! Doesn't matter which, as it's the one they like.


----------



## Chuck W

I doubt I'd ever switch to DISH at this point due to their neglect of NY sports, specifically YES network. However, what I "think" I see with DISH is intriguing but when I look closer I become a bit underwhelmed, especially with the Hopper/Joey.

The Hopper/Joey was interesting until I saw that 4 of the six things being recorded had to be network programming and only at a specific time. Then looking at the Joeys closer, you see that if someone is using one, there goes one of you recording avenues as the Joey ties up a line. With a wife watching one thing, a kid watching another and me wanting to watch something else, there goes any hope of recording something else. The only way I could see it working is if I had 2, even then I'm not so sure.

DISH works great for a friend of mine in Maryland tho, who used to be a long time Directv sub. But Directv beat around the bush and wouldn't offer him any good deals to upgrade to HD(he was all SD with a low to midrange package), so he went DISH. He had been with Directv for about 8 years and was long out of contract. Right after he switched, he got calls from Directv offering him great deals. He told them that they had their chance and they did nothing, so se la vie(sp?).

One of these days, Directv is gonna realize that treating/doing your existing customers right is just as valuable as the way you treat new customers. I know existing customers get deals with Directv(I did), but it's like pulling teeth. It just shouldn't be that way, especially of you are out of contract.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Chuck W" said:


> But Directv beat around the bush and wouldn't offer him any good deals to upgrade to HD(he was all SD with a low to midrange package), so he went DISH. He had been with Directv for about 8 years. Right after he switched, he got calls from Directv offering him great deals. He told them that they had their chance and they did nothing, so se la vie(sp?).


I've got a brother that went to Dish for the same reason. D* gave me one helluva deal when I went HD, but they didn't offer him squat to upgrade, so he went to Dish.

I'm not sure what criteria D* uses to determine deals, but it's not income, credit score or package. I promise you he's got me beat on both.


----------



## bobvick1983

dpeters11 said:


> Some of it is too subjective. Hopper is better for some, HR34 better hardware for others. Hopper would have fairly limited use for me as we just don't watch that much network programming. For others, it's a good solution.


I am in the same boat as you, I could care less about the network programming, except for Alcatraz on FOX. Other than that, I could live without the networks except for the local news/weather.
I would much rather have the 5 tuners on the HR34 vs the 3 on the Hopper, with one devoted to PTAT.
I realize that you can turn PTAT off, but I like the two extra tuners that the HR34 provides.
If Dish had went with 6 tuners in the Hopper, they might have something there.


----------



## mreposter

I'd love to upgrade my HR23 to an HR34 and hopefully get rid of all the lag, but I'm just not willing to make another 2 year commitment to do it.


----------



## scottchez

%%%% DISH HAS A 6 TUNER HOPPER system it is out now for $99 more %%%%%%%

I have Two of the orginal HR20-100 HD DVRs. They are soooooooo sloooooow

Even with the new HD guide. They ran fast for the first week, now they are slow.

I called to see about get a new HR34 or new HR24 or some thing faster. I have been out of contract for 1 1/2 years. I got nothing, all they want is for me to pay hundreds of dollars to fix there slowness issue and a Two year contract. Again to fix a slowness issue in this old model.

I also asked if DireCTV will ever carry the Super station package like what dish offers, they said no. Also the missing HD channels that dish has.

Once Dish has there new 6 TUNER Hopper going- YES THEY HAVE ONE.
It is Two Hoppers integrated. Its only $99 more for 3 more turners. You get Two Hoppers they see each other on the network which gives you 6 tuners (9 counting my Prime time).
ETA by summer for software update.

AND

The Dish Offers an over the AIR USB tuner ETA end of summer.

I will switch to Dish to get more HD and Movies. I dont care about sports.


----------



## veryoldschool

scottchez said:


> %%%% DISH HAS A 6 TUNER HOPPER system it is out now for $99 more %%%%%%%.


Not quite, but it will record a lot of channels during Primetime.
It has only 3 tuners, but one of them will record "all" the major local HD channels.
If it truly had six tuners, you could select six different channels out of the guide of your choice without conflict.
The HR34 "only" has 5 tuners, but you get to pick any channel for all of them.


----------



## RAD

VOS, reading his post it looks like he knows he'd need two Hoppers to truly get 6 tuners. But if I were him I'd wait until the OTA/USB tuner and Hopper sharing were actually available, too many times Dish has been late, or even cancelled, a feature they said would be coming to their hardware that never makes it.


----------



## Alebob911

scottchez;2984016I will switch to Dish to get more HD and Movies.I dont care about sports.[/quote said:


> Goodbye.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> VOS, reading his post it looks like he knows he'd need two Hoppers to truly get 6 tuners. But if I were him I'd wait until the OTA/USB tuner and Hopper sharing were actually available, too many times Dish has been late, or even cancelled, a feature they said would be coming to their hardware that never makes it.


Thanks for clarifying,
I keyed off:
DISH HAS A 6 TUNER HOPPER system it is out now for $99 more 
Once Dish has there new 6 TUNER Hopper going- YES THEY HAVE ONE.

And didn't see his fine print: "It is Two Hoppers integrated"
Wonder what a two HR34 system would look like, hummmm.... ten tuners anytime, and channel, with almost twice the long term storage.


----------



## skatingrocker17

I'd give Dish a try but for me, it's just too expensive because I would need the Top 250 package because my dad loves the Military Channel.


----------



## fourhokiefans

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish could only be better if DirecTV ceased to exist. People who care very little for the quality of a product choose Dish Network.


I beg to differ. I have been with D* for 9 years -2 HDDVRs/ 2 SDDVRs. Just switched back to Dish's Hopper and Joeys. I am quite pleased. With the recent price increases at D* and the introduction of the H/J s at Dish, I think there will be some migration in customers. Other than the NFL Sunday Ticket, it is looking that Dish has come a long way under their new leadership.


----------



## AquiringSat

... and how has Nobody mentioned how Stupid the names "Hopper" and "Joey" are:lol: At least DirecTV came up with a decent name, "Home Media Center"


----------



## Shades228

fourhokiefans said:


> I beg to differ. I have been with D* for 9 years -2 HDDVRs/ 2 SDDVRs. Just switched back to Dish's Hopper and Joeys. I am quite pleased. With the recent price increases at D* and the introduction of the H/J s at Dish, I think there will be some migration in customers. Other than the NFL Sunday Ticket, it is looking that Dish has come a long way under their new leadership.


You also gave up a lot of control as well. Going from 6 tuners and 4 tv's that can have live programming plus record something to a max of 3 tv's that have programming at the same time but can't record isn't the same thing. If it works for you then great but if it does it sounds like you had more than you needed with DIRECTV and could have saved some cash as well if you changed stuff around.


----------



## inkahauts

"AquiringSat" said:


> ... and how has Nobody mentioned how Stupid the names "Hopper" and "Joey" are:lol: At least DirecTV came up with a decent name, "Home Media Center"


I have to admit, that is a ridiculous name. But from a marketing standpoint, it's pretty good. Everyone will know your talking about dish when you say it, unlike TiVo, whose name is simply used to describe any dvr, and doesn't mean much to most people as a brand.

DirecTV should have tried "DirecTV hub" if they wanted differnet yet descriptive, or "hal" for something fun....


----------



## RACJ2

For someone who likes to watch a lot of network programming, I think that Dish's Hopper is a great setup. If I understand the concept, it has 8 days of prime time programs recorded for on demand use. And it gives you the ability to record up to 3 non network channels at once. I'm not crazy about the name, but I guess after seeing the commercial with a red kangaroo hopping around, it may give them better brand recognition.

For someone like me who wants NFL ST and NHL CI with almost all games in HD. And uses multiple tuners to watch several NHL/NFL games at once, DIRECTV's HMC is better. I can record 3 non network shows at once and still buffer and watch 2 NHL CI or NFL ST games live at the same time.

So as with most things, they both have there pluses and minuses. And you have to decide based on what works best for you. Although after reading through some of the threads on the Hopper/Joey and experiencing the HMC first hand, they both may need some updates before they are working smooth.


----------



## RAD

RACJ2 said:


> For someone who likes to watch a lot of network programming, I think that Dish's Hopper is a great setup. If I understand the concept, it has 8 days of prime time programs recorded for on demand use. And it gives you the ability to record up to 3 non network channels at once.


During the time that it's recording those prime time network programs you then have only two tuners available for non network. Then that's assuming that you don't have any Joey's that also want to watch live non network TV, each one would take one of those two tuners. IMHO you will run out of tuners fairly quickly.


----------



## Jodean

it is funny how everyone is comparing free equipment to the hr34......

the 34 is NOT free. Its $99

Hopper is free to new customers

So you have to compare the hopper to the 24, which obviously the hopper wins.


----------



## mdavej

Like many have said, the better provider depends on your viewing habits. Both have some really great technology we couldn't even imagine a few years ago. Hopefully this new system will be a big money maker for Dish. Strong competition is great for consumers.

Besides more profit from cheaper hardware (Joeys), simpler installs (less wiring), and more fees (whole home fee, additional receiver fees), I bet Dish is also getting some kind of kickback from the networks. To have all your content pushed to every customer is a valuable thing and will have a positive impact on ratings. I know from my own personal experience, I'm watching a lot more network content than I did before Hopper. If I can't find anything else to watch, I can go to the Prime Time folder and usually find something.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I wouldn't be surprised to see DIRECTV have some sort of similar service to Primetime Anytime. Without the wideband tuner they'd have to push it over the internet but it could be done.


----------



## NewForceFiveFan

I've had both services. Directv in 1997, Dish around 1999-2000. Been back with Directv since May 2010. Except for hearing about the Hopper/Joey thing I really haven't kept up on what Dish is doing. Hopper/Joey sounds great in theory but unless the hopper is in a central location like the basement, wire distribution around the house will be wonky. Another downfall is if the hopper goes down the joeys are useless. Right now if one of my HD-DVRs has a problem I can still use the other two till it gets repaired or replaced.


----------



## veryoldschool

NewForceFiveFan said:


> Hopper/Joey sounds great in theory but...


It might be a closer comparison to use the HR34 and either receivers or the RVU TVs as clients.
In both cases, should the main server go down, the customer is at a bit of a loss.


----------



## veryoldschool

Stuart Sweet said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see DIRECTV have some sort of similar service to Primetime Anytime. Without the wideband tuner they'd have to push it over the internet but it could be done.


I've heard some "rumors" that they're looking into using broadband for this.


----------



## RAD

Stuart Sweet said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see DIRECTV have some sort of similar service to Primetime Anytime. Without the wideband tuner they'd have to push it over the internet but it could be done.


Doesn't the tuner now see the entire transponder that a channel is on and couldn't then just record the entire stream?


----------



## P Smith

RAD said:


> Doesn't the tuner now see the entire transponder that a channel is on and couldn't then just record the entire stream?


It always been that way. No technical issue to record whole mux [tpn stream]; problems arises when you will split it for viewing/saving.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> Doesn't the tuner now see the entire transponder that a channel is on and couldn't then just record the entire stream?


What "we" don't know is how the tuner chip filters/decodes from the transponder. Does the Hopper use a different tuner chip? :shrug: 
DirecTV uses dual tuner chips.
Hopper looks to have one dual tuner and then the Primetime tuner chip.


----------



## AquiringSat

Jodean said:


> it is funny how everyone is comparing free equipment to the hr34......
> 
> the 34 is NOT free. Its $99
> 
> Hopper is free to new customers
> 
> So you have to compare the hopper to the 24, which obviously the hopper wins.


DirecTV has Free On-Demand Network Programming, which is what this Hopper thing records.

But anyway, this is (and always will be) the difference between Dish Network and DirecTV.

Dish Network = Cheap Price, Cheap Service, Cheap Equipment, and Restrictions

DirecTV = Competitive Price, Great Service, Top of the Line Equipment, and the Most Programming Options

Ya Get Wat Ya Pay For!


----------



## RAD

AquiringSat said:


> DirecTV has Free On-Demand Network Programming, which is what this Hopper thing records.


Not correct. The Hopper records the local into local HD channels for the customers location. It has nothing to do with On-Demand, which DIRECTV's big four networks is missing a couple and they're not in HD.


----------



## lparsons21

AquiringSat said:


> DirecTV has Free On-Demand Network Programming, which is what this Hopper thing records.
> 
> But anyway, this is (and always will be) the difference between Dish Network and DirecTV.
> 
> Dish Network = Cheap Price, Cheap Service, Cheap Equipment, and Restrictions
> 
> DirecTV = Competitive Price, Great Service, Top of the Line Equipment, and the Most Programming Options
> 
> Ya Get Ya Pay For!


No, D* doesn't have 'free' on demand, you are paying for that each month, just like all the rest of what you get. And the Hopper is recording in real time, not some internet download later, and it is getting all the current prime time shows, which D*'s network VOD isn't.

And other than more sports, D* isn't bringing much else to the table that is significantly better than E*. I've had both fairly recently and know this to be a fact.

And yes, you do get what you pay for. And for those wanting/needing a bunch of sports, D* is certainly the way to go. For those of us that don't have that need, both D* and E* offer excellent options from which we can choose.

As to the hardware, I think it is nearly a wash. There is exactly zero difference in the quality of the hardware from both companies. There are differences in how they interact with the user, with both having features that are great and both having features that pretty much suck, with the rest of the features being just there and good enough.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> Not correct.


"Case in point":
Last night a had a glitch with NCIS, where I lost 10 min of the show.
Checking with On Demand to see if I could find what I missed, showed no CBS.


----------



## inkahauts

"Jodean" said:


> it is funny how everyone is comparing free equipment to the hr34......
> 
> the 34 is NOT free. Its $99
> 
> Hopper is free to new customers
> 
> So you have to compare the hopper to the 24, which obviously the hopper wins.


Three free hr24s vs a hopper and two joeys? Which is more flexible? Would you prefer that discussion?

I thinks the comparisons are completely valid. They both are trying to accomplish the same general things, from two different directions. 99 in the grand scheme of how much you would pay for your services from either company over two years is a non issue for this debate.


----------



## AquiringSat

It's all the same programming


----------



## inkahauts

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see DIRECTV have some sort of similar service to Primetime Anytime. Without the wideband tuner they'd have to push it over the internet but it could be done.


If they would just bolster their network on demand offerings to have hd and all the big four channels I'd be thrilled. I would still rally use it, but it'd be nice to have in a pinch, and they could have more than just one episode of a show at a time. They cold have seasons worth and would if they where smart. Of course, there's a lot of rights issues with that, that have nothing to do with DirecTV either.


----------



## inkahauts

"veryoldschool" said:


> I've heard some "rumors" that they're looking into using broadband for this.


I can only imagine how complex it would be to do that and get everyone's local version of programs via on demand. That's a massive infrastructure to deal with.


----------



## veryoldschool

AquiringSat said:


> It's all the same programming


Can you or would you show me where CBS is then?


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> Three free hr24s vs a hopper and two joeys? Which is more flexible? Would you prefer that discussion?
> 
> I thinks the comparisons are completely valid. They both are trying to accomplish the same general things, from two different directions. 99 in the grand scheme of how much you would pay for your services from either company over two years is a non issue for this debate.


3 free HR24s isn't the norm at all. Yes, sometimes you can get that many free, but it is fairly rare.

But I do think the comparisons are valid since we're basically discussing whole home.

BTW, it is 1 Hopper plus up to 3 Joeys free from what I've been reading.

One big advantage of the Hopper+Joeys is that it is all centrally managed. No running around the house setting up 3 HR24s for different series and such, that is a big PITA IMO. I would trade my 3 HR24s for 1 HR34 and an RVU client on the spot! Of course, D* could quit worrying about adding trivial crap like Pandora and YouTube and get unified TODO list working as well as a unified Series Manager, and in their spare time maybe get CIG working!


----------



## veryoldschool

inkahauts said:


> I can only imagine how complex it would be to do that and get everyone's local version of programs via on demand. That's a massive infrastructure to deal with.


This might only be the DNS feeds being stored.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> One big advantage of the Hopper+Joeys is that it is all centrally managed. No running around the house setting up 3 HR24s for different series and such, that is a big PITA IMO.


The HR34 would be a better comparison, as yes MRV with HR24s can be a PITA.


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> The HR34 would be a better comparison, as yes MRV with HR24s can be a PITA.


And once D* releases a full featured client, it would be a more easy comparison to make.


----------



## inkahauts

"lparsons21" said:


> No, D* doesn't have 'free' on demand, you are paying for that each month, just like all the rest of what you get. And the Hopper is recording in real time, not some internet download later, and it is getting all the current prime time shows, which D*'s network VOD isn't.
> 
> And other than more sports, D* isn't bringing much else to the table that is significantly better than E*. I've had both fairly recently and know this to be a fact.
> 
> And yes, you do get what you pay for. And for those wanting/needing a bunch of sports, D* is certainly the way to go. For those of us that don't have that need, both D* and E* offer excellent options from which we can choose.
> 
> As to the hardware, I think it is nearly a wash. There is exactly zero difference in the quality of the hardware from both companies. There are differences in how they interact with the user, with both having features that are great and both having features that pretty much suck, with the rest of the features being just there and good enough.


You aren't paying anything more for DirecTV on demand. DirecTV on demand is free for anything off of a channel you subscribe to. They only charge extra for ppv programing.

With that said, isn't that how dish does it as well?

The great thing is we have choice, because even if I wasn't a sports person, the hardware is far superior on DirecTV than dish (hr34 vs hopper) for the way I would use it. That doesn't mean someone else can't say the exact opposite though. Choice is great. And I love that these two companies try and do everything differently from one another. Leads to more features at both companies.


----------



## AquiringSat

veryoldschool said:


> Can you or would you show me where CBS is then?


That is weird that they don't have CBS, Fox, CW, or (whatever UPN became), but I JUST NOW Noticed it! I guess that goes to show how often I watch Network TV. I watch The Office and that's about it! I do now see your point though if Network TV is your thing. Which, last I Checked Network TV is FREE to Every Single Human Being in the country, so why that is a difference maker between 2 pay services is strange to me.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> And once D* releases a full featured client, it would be a more easy comparison to make.


So today, Dish has one, and DirecTV needs the RVU TVs to compete equally, but can use receivers.
Tomorrow?


----------



## inkahauts

"lparsons21" said:


> 3 free HR24s isn't the norm at all. Yes, sometimes you can get that many free, but it is fairly rare.
> 
> But I do think the comparisons are valid since we're basically discussing whole home.
> 
> BTW, it is 1 Hopper plus up to 3 Joeys free from what I've been reading.
> 
> One big advantage of the Hopper+Joeys is that it is all centrally managed. No running around the house setting up 3 HR24s for different series and such, that is a big PITA IMO. I would trade my 3 HR24s for 1 HR34 and an RVU client on the spot! Of course, D* could quit worrying about adding trivial crap like Pandora and YouTube and get unified TODO list working as well as a unified Series Manager, and in their spare time maybe get CIG working!


So if someone had three joeys, and all of them where watching tv live, you couldn't watch anything live on the hopper. That's a nightmare waiting to happen for some people.

Again, they are different companies. He said you can't argue it unless they are both free, which I disagree with. But still, if he went that path look what happens. Suddenly you have more timers, more tuners, and more flexibility with the DirecTV system, at the expense of slightly more work to set up all the recordings, which shouldn't be much of a deal except for the start of each new season most of the time.


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> You aren't paying anything more for DirecTV on demand. DirecTV on demand is free for anything off of a channel you subscribe to. They only charge extra for ppv programing.
> 
> With that said, isn't that how dish does it as well?
> 
> The great thing is we have choice, because even if I wasn't a sports person, the hardware is far superior on DirecTV than dish (hr34 vs hopper) for the way I would use it. That doesn't mean someone else can't say the exact opposite though. Choice is great. And I love that these two companies try and do everything differently from one another. Leads to more features at both companies.


Yep, it is how Dish does it too. And like D* it isn't free there either, it is part and parcel of the subscriptions you have. And both give it to you if you are hooked to the internet automagically! 

As to the hardware, for me it is nearly a wash between the HR34 and the Hopper/Joey setup because of the way I watch/record. I could easily swap out 1 Hopper + 1 Joey for the 3 HR24s I have now and not miss a single program. And actually I might have a rare time that an HR34 with the rumored RVU client might cause me a problem because during primetime I would actually have one less effective tuner.

And I love choice! Because of those choices I can stay or go whenever I want to and gain some things and lose others. For me it is even easier because the HD programming on both is close enough to the same that I only grumble mildly that I'm missing something I'd like to get in HD.


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> So if someone had three joeys, and all of them where watching tv live, you couldn't watch anything live on the hopper. That's a nightmare waiting to happen for some people.
> 
> Again, they are different companies. He said you can't argue it unless they are both free, which I disagree with. But still, if he went that path look what happens. Suddenly you have more timers, more tuners, and more flexibility with the DirecTV system, at the expense of slightly more work to set up all the recordings, which shouldn't be much of a deal except for the start of each new season most of the time.


Yep if live TV was an issue with me, then the Hopper/Joey wouldn't be a good choice. But I can't remember the last time I watched live TV!


----------



## veryoldschool

It's nice to see an open discussion that doesn't slam members for their choices or opinions.


----------



## inkahauts

"lparsons21" said:


> Yep, it is how Dish does it too. And like D* it isn't free there either, it is part and parcel of the subscriptions you have. And both give it to you if you are hooked to the internet automagically!
> 
> As to the hardware, for me it is nearly a wash between the HR34 and the Hopper/Joey setup because of the way I watch/record. I could easily swap out 1 Hopper + 1 Joey for the 3 HR24s I have now and not miss a single program. And actually I might have a rare time that an HR34 with the rumored RVU client might cause me a problem because during primetime I would actually have one less effective tuner.
> 
> And I love choice! Because of those choices I can stay or go whenever I want to and gain some things and lose others. For me it is even easier because the HD programming on both is close enough to the same that I only grumble mildly that I'm missing something I'd like to get in HD.


On demand is free in that there is no separate fee to pay just for that service. It does not cost someone that wants it more than someone who doesn't. Sure, there are costs associated with it that are included in the price DirecTV pays channels, but there is zero extra costs to a customer to get that service as well as the channels in linear format. What you are saying is like saying that there is no such thing as free installs.

I don't think I have seen anything but sports live in literally years....

And a point about having to run around to each box vs one central with dish when comparing it to hr24s. PTAT makes you baby sit it if you are wanting to keep anything beyond 8 days, which to me is much worse.


----------



## Chuck W

veryoldschool said:


> It might be a closer comparison to use the HR34 and either receivers or the RVU TVs as clients.
> In both cases, should the main server go down, the customer is at a bit of a loss.


If you use regular receivers on Directv tho, while you will lose DVR functionality, you will still have the tuner in the Hxx unit to use for viewing.

I don't know much about the RVUs. Do the RVUs have to have an HR34 to function at all or do they also have their own simple tuner built in?

AquiringSat,
I don't know much about the CW, but CBS and I believe FOX are very cointrolling with their content. I know CBS content isn't even on Hulu or Hulu+ either.

However, you can go directly to CBS and view prior episodes.


----------



## inkahauts

"Chuck W" said:


> If you use regular receivers on Directv tho, while you will lose DVR functionality, you will still have the tuner in the Hxx unit to use for viewing.
> 
> I don't know much about the RVUs. Do the RVUs have to have an HR34 to function at all or do they also have their own simple tuner built in?
> 
> AquiringSat,
> I don't know much about the CW, but CBS and I believe FOX are very cointrolling with their content. I know CBS isn't even on Hulu or Hulu+ either.
> 
> However, you can go directly to CBS and view prior episodes.


Hr34 with rvu clients is similar to hopper and joeys. Clients take up a hr34 tuner if it's watching live tv. But the hr34 can serve up three rvu clients and still be watching 2 feeds at the same time, where as if three joeys are watching live tv, the hopper can watch anything live.


----------



## Hoosier205

On Demand is free. DirecTV has more HD channels. DirecTV has superior HD picture quality. Dish Network is a 2nd tier service.


----------



## veryoldschool

Hoosier205 said:


> Dish Network is a 2nd tier service.


Dish is a second service option, but whether it's a 2nd tier would be up to the customer.
Again you're just posting your opinion, which may not be the same as others.


----------



## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> What "we" don't know is how the tuner chip filters/decodes from the transponder. Does the Hopper use a different tuner chip? :shrug:
> DirecTV uses dual tuner chips.
> Hopper looks to have one dual tuner and then the Primetime tuner chip.


Main chip of h2k has embedded two tuners/demods [BCM7425] and additional tuner on main PCBA.


----------



## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> Main chip of h2k has embedded two tuners/demods [BCM7425] and additional tuner on main PCBA.


That additional tuner is the network tuner, while the HR34 uses three dual tuner chips, where one tuner is used for the network, hence 5 SAT tuners.


----------



## mdavej

inkahauts said:


> ...PTAT makes you baby sit it if you are wanting to keep anything beyond 8 days, which to me is much worse.


It's my understanding that if you set a normal timer for anything that gets recorded by PTAT it is automatically saved. I haven't tried it myself.


----------



## TBoneit

Stuart Sweet said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see DIRECTV have some sort of similar service to Primetime Anytime. Without the wideband tuner they'd have to push it over the internet but it could be done.


DirecTV can have that feature too.

They'll have to have new hardware since it appears to me that the PTAT feature eats up hard drive.

Think recording 4 channels for three hours More for sports over runs times 8 days plus the usual reserved space.

Then new software too. However if they ever get their DirecTV brand thin client out the door they'll already have that part of the hardware and only need to design the Hopper equivalent hardware. And if they can take the HR34 and do the job with software and a 2TB drive only, Hopper killer?

And then maybe they'll be able to actually have a pause in one room. Leave paused and resume in another room as the deceptive (IMO) commercial showed.


----------



## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> That additional tuner is the network tuner, while the HR34 uses three dual tuner chips, where one tuner is used for the network, hence 5 SAT tuners.


They don't have same architecture as DTV, so no, no dedicated 'network' (if you mean sat tuner what dedicated to gathering system data from all Ku transponders - DTV scatters SI data across of many tpns mostly on 101W with small use of 110/119W, while dish replicating almost all SI data on each tpn, exclude EEPG what reside on dedicated tpns on different arcs/sats)


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> And a point about having to run around to each box vs one central with dish when comparing it to hr24s. PTAT makes you baby sit it if you are wanting to keep anything beyond 8 days, which to me is much worse.


Uh no, you don't have to do it that way. From reading in other places, it seems that if you want to automagically save a PTAT recording, just set an additional timer for that program. It won't use an additional tuner, but will save the recording outside of the PTAT area.


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> Hr34 with rvu clients is similar to hopper and joeys. Clients take up a hr34 tuner if it's watching live tv. But the hr34 can serve up three rvu clients and still be watching 2 feeds at the same time, where as if three joeys are watching live tv, the hopper can watch anything live.


The Hopper can serve up 3 Joey clients and still allow for some live watching on other tuners during primetime. So during primetime, it is similar and has effectively 1 more tuner available at that time. You literally could have 4 watching primetime broadcast live (or maybe just nearly so?) and be recording on the other 2 tuners.

It is very flexible. But, IMO, I think the Hopper/Joey is a better solution for those that don't watch much if any, live TV compared to the HR34 and RVU clients.


----------



## lparsons21

TBoneit said:


> Then new software too. However if they ever get their DirecTV brand thin client out the door they'll already have that part of the hardware and only need to design the Hopper equivalent hardware. And if they can take the HR34 and do the job with software and a 2TB drive only, Hopper killer?
> 
> And then maybe they'll be able to actually have a pause in one room. Leave paused and resume in another room as the deceptive (IMO) commercial showed.


Yeah, an HR34 with all RVU clients is essentially the same as the Hopper/Joey in use. But for D* to do PTAT would take not only a bigger hard drive, it would take heftier hardware in nearly all respects. Faster CPU for sure.


----------



## RAD

"lparsons21" said:


> Yeah, an HR34 with all RVU clients is essentially the same as the Hopper/Joey in use. But for D* to do PTAT would take not only a bigger hard drive, it would take heftier hardware in nearly all respects. Faster CPU for sure.


Would it really need a faster CPU? All it has to to is copy the bits from the transponder to the hard drive, no processing of the data stream would be required. But the bus and the hard drive would need to have the bandwidth available to handle the additional data transfer.


----------



## inkahauts

"mdavej" said:


> It's my understanding that if you set a normal timer for anything that gets recorded by PTAT it is automatically saved. I haven't tried it myself.


One person was saying that, but all the literature, dish reps, and mods disagree. I have a feeling the person seeing it was probably seeing his unit record the shows on the other two tuners and saving them, not moving them from the PTAT section to his section.

Since you seem to have that system, could you try an experiment. Record two channels that are not on a pt channel, all night long, and have PTAT turned on, and set timers for all your PTAT shows, and see what happens? I have seen no instant where anyone has tried that either. And then make sure your hopper is recording all those things during pt and not a cable show at a different airing time.


----------



## inkahauts

"lparsons21" said:


> Yeah, an HR34 with all RVU clients is essentially the same as the Hopper/Joey in use. But for D* to do PTAT would take not only a bigger hard drive, it would take heftier hardware in nearly all respects. Faster CPU for sure.


I am not sure they'd need a bigger hard drive if it was added to a hr34 (assuming hardware wisest could do it as is in terms of tuners)

Recording PTAT n DirecTV would likely require about 500 gigs of space, or less. That would still leave 100 hours of recording not devoted to PTAT which is how much is available to someone with a hr24 right now. The key is, if someone is using PTAT, how much more would they be recording. For most people I doubt this would be an issue if they where using PTAT because anyone that doesn't watch mostly network would not use thePTAT feature int he first place.

Dish seems to keep a much larger reserve space than DirecTV s 100 gigs for pushed programing and PTAT


----------



## inkahauts

"lparsons21" said:


> The Hopper can serve up 3 Joey clients and still allow for some live watching on other tuners during primetime. So during primetime, it is similar and has effectively 1 more tuner available at that time. You literally could have 4 watching primetime broadcast live (or maybe just nearly so?) and be recording on the other 2 tuners.
> 
> It is very flexible. But, IMO, I think the Hopper/Joey is a better solution for those that don't watch much if any, live TV compared to the HR34 and RVU clients.


I am talking about all live, no recorded content being played on any machine.

If you can watch any of the shows during a PTAT time frame live on any machine that's great, but what about during the day on a Saturday?

It may be a better solution for those that watch mostly prime time shows, but not ones who simply watch a lot of recorded tv. I am one of those people, and the hopper is not as friendly to my viewing habits as an hr34 would be just based in recording all I want.


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> Would it really need a faster CPU? All it has to to is copy the bits from the transponder to the hard drive, no processing of the data stream would be required. But the bus and the hard drive would need to have the bandwidth available to handle the additional data transfer.


Wouldn't the unit have to breakdown the transponder stream to its component parts in that seperation? It would seem to me that it would, hence heftier CPU.

Another thing that makes me think the HR34 wouldn't be up to snuff as it sits to do this, is I'm firmly convinced that D* marginally specs their hardware which gives us the results we see in the UI. ie; sluggishness, lagging remote response and others.


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> I am talking about all live, no recorded content being played on any machine.
> 
> If you can watch any of the shows during a PTAT time frame live on any machine that's great, but what about during the day on a Saturday?
> 
> It may be a better solution for those that watch mostly prime time shows, but not ones who simply watch a lot of recorded tv. I am one of those people, and the hopper is not as friendly to my viewing habits as an hr34 would be just based in recording all I want.


And for me and my son, the Hopper/Joey with 3 tuners would be more than good enough to replace the 6 tuners that we have with the 3 HR24s.

We don't watch anything live that matters. IOW, if TV is live it is just noise in the room with no one paying attention

The only time more than 3 tuners are in use are during primetime and that because they don't tend to rerun close in and you have to get them during that period. The bulk of the rest of the shows are 'cable channel' stuff that repeats incessantly so recording that isn't an issue at all.

Frankly I could not record at all during prime time and never miss anything other than broadcast and the occasional boxing match on HBO/Showtime. Even there, I could watch it recorded later.

But I do understand those that don't think it will work for them and have no argument with them either.


----------



## RAD

lparsons21 said:


> Wouldn't the unit have to breakdown the transponder stream to its component parts in that seperation? It would seem to me that it would, hence heftier CPU.


Why, just record the entire transponder stream and then break it out when needed for playback. I'd be willing to bet that the Hopper is doing the same thing.


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> Why, just record the entire transponder stream and then break it out when needed for playback. I'd be willing to bet that the Hopper is doing the same thing.


I don't think so, but I certainly could be wrong. From everything I read it was explained that it broke the stream down and extracted the up to 4 channels on the fly during the recording process.


----------



## RACJ2

lparsons21 said:


> And for me and my son, the Hopper/Joey with 3 tuners would be more than good enough to replace the 6 tuners that we have with the 3 HR24s.
> 
> We don't watch anything live that matters. IOW, if TV is live it is just noise in the room with no one paying attention...


I guess you're not a sports fan.


----------



## lparsons21

RACJ2 said:


> I guess you're not a sports fan.


Well, not the sports you might think of. Boxing and Golf in that order and I have no compelling need to watch either live.

My son likes to follow San Diego's football team and we had NFLST last season, but he has indicated he won't pay for it next season, and I sure won't.


----------



## Richierich

I think when I First Read the Thread Title I Thought It Was A Joke!

DIRECTV will BURY DISH!!! :hurah:


----------



## RAD

lparsons21 said:


> Wouldn't the unit have to breakdown the transponder stream to its component parts in that seperation? It would seem to me that it would, hence heftier CPU.


So how would that be different from watching a network channel live vs. watching it via PTA recording?


----------



## lparsons21

RAD said:


> So how would that be different from watching a network channel live vs. watching it via PTA recording?


I don't think you can watch PTA in real time, I think it is slightly delayed.

Otherwise, I don't know.


----------



## lparsons21

Richierich said:


> I think when I First Read the Thread Title I Thought It Was A Joke!
> 
> DIRECTV will BURY DISH!!! :hurah:


Thank you for joining the conversation with your well thought out and comprehensive comments. 

IOW, you didn't bring anything to the table!


----------



## Hoosier205

"lparsons21" said:


> IOW, you didn't bring anything to the table!


Neither has Dish Network.


----------



## lparsons21

Up till now this has been one of the best threads comparing Dish and DirecTV in the MRV arena. And it has been so good because it has been lacking in fanboi comments that bring nothing to the discussion.

For those that feel the need to make no argument arguments, I suggest you step over the usenet where there are no mods and make any and all comments you wish to. I hope this thread can continue in the very good manner it has so far.


----------



## Daniel

Just a couple of comments --

Yes, setting a timer for a PTAT show will not use an extra tuner and will save that episode onto user side of the drive. No 'baby sitting' required.

If the three tuners are not enough, then you can get a second Hopper giving you six tuners for up to 9 shows recording at once during prime time. There is some limitation on functionality in that the two Hoppers don't talk to each other yet, but it is considered a top priority for the developers. When they are fully integrated, it will supposedly act as one big Hopper with six tuners. (Of course some people will want to wait for this to be implemented before _jumping_ in.)

I've had the system for four days now, and I couldn't be happier. The speed of this system is amazing, especially compared to the HR21 that it replaced. My family is also happy that I'm not constantly cussing out the DVR trying to get it to respond to the remote and we are no longer required to contort ourselves to find the sweet spot that it will respond to.

There are also a lot of small 'nice to have' features with the Hopper/Joey that I think are getting overlooked --

Since the remote is a ZigBee compliant, it gives you a remote locate feature (nice with a seven-year old who walks around with the remote and leaves it in the oddest places), you can easily program it for other devices from on screen menus (no more entering codes!) and can learn commands (I used this to program the AUX on the remote to support our little HDMI switch remote)

Even though I don't have an external drive connected, I do like the way that Dish handles them. While DirecTV will just replace the internal drive with the external, Dish uses theirs as an archiving device where shows can be manually copied. A lot of current Dish users are using this to save out their shows from their old DVRs and transfer them to their new Hopper. So, upgrading without losing any programming -- Nice. And it will support multiple external drives.

Fast-forwarding playback is very smooth and there is an actual slow motion feature. (I never could get the HR21 one to work.)

Three hour guide instead of 90 minutes.

The Hopper/Joeys still have some bugs to work out, but it is already a very usable system. If you don't like to be on the bleeding edge, I would wait a couple of months, but for most of our types on these forums, it is a truly rocking system and well worth the look.


----------



## Shades228

Back when this came out I said this about it and I still believe it to be true:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2946250#post2946250



Shades228 said:


> There are some assumptions in there that I don't think are going to pan out like they're stated. However until it's in the field it's all speculation. I personally feel that 5 tuners to do what I want is better than 3 even with PTAT. I know this is the DISH side of the board so there is bias but overall with the fact that they have stated hoppers will only work with joeys and that PTAT is only appealing to a few (I don't know anyone who records all prime time shows every night) I feel that DISH has again limited their technology. If they had made the hopper/joey system compatible with existing equipment they wouldn't have the limitations I see. I'm nowhere near an expert on DISH installations at all but I don't know how DISH handles having say 10+ tuners setup. OTA also doesn't have an impact on me due to where I am and the crap signals we get. It's cheaper to add receivers than get the equipment needed to get OTA here.
> 
> So for instance my setup will have 2 HR34's (10 tuners) just to record programs 4 HR24 HD DVRs (8 tuners) to access the recordings, and record one time things that pop up if needed, on the HR34s. I can't see how it's possible to do this with the Hopper/Joey setup and retain the same recording ability as well as functionality without multiple Dish's.
> 
> Now to be fair the kids rooms could get away with RVU clients (removing 6 tuners) because DIRECTV hasn't released an RVU client that I'm willing to put in their rooms and I'm not willing to give up trick play in their rooms. With that said though the cost of an RVU client and a HD DVR with DIRECTV is identicle so there wouldn't be a reason to swap them out since I already have them.
> 
> So how would you get that setup done with the Hopper/Joey and what equipment would it take?


The main point of this was that Dish is still either afraid of the boogeyman or they just don't have the engineering to change what they do. I know the second point isn't true so the first must be. This hopper/joey system is severely limited to the average consumer home. It's not back in the late 80's and early 90's where only the well off had more than 2 tv's. The fact that they did something to not have a system allow live tv in 4 rooms and let alone be able to record while 3 tv's were being used is just short sighted at this time in the game. They have always done things to make it non friendly for consumers who have larger systems.

The HR34 was a step forward in technology the Hopper is a side step at best. If you remove the PTA feature it's a glorified HD DVR that can support remote clients that don't have their own tuners. So for a smaller home where you only need 1-2 shows going at a time you're fine but other than that bottle necked. Even if you max out at 2 of them you're still only going to have at max 6 live tuners which is barely enough for a 4 room setup and having recordings.


----------



## inkahauts

"Daniel" said:


> Just a couple of comments --
> 
> Yes, setting a timer for a PTAT show will not use an extra tuner and will save that episode onto user side of the drive. No 'baby sitting' required.
> 
> If the three tuners are not enough, then you can get a second Hopper giving you six tuners for up to 9 shows recording at once during prime time. There is some limitation on functionality in that the two Hoppers don't talk to each other yet, but it is considered a top priority for the developers. When they are fully integrated, it will supposedly act as one big Hopper with six tuners. (Of course some people will want to wait for this to be implemented before jumping in.)
> 
> I've had the system for four days now, and I couldn't be happier. The speed of this system is amazing, especially compared to the HR21 that it replaced. My family is also happy that I'm not constantly cussing out the DVR trying to get it to respond to the remote and we are no longer required to contort ourselves to find the sweet spot that it will respond to.
> 
> There are also a lot of small 'nice to have' features with the Hopper/Joey that I think are getting overlooked --
> 
> Since the remote is a ZigBee compliant, it gives you a remote locate feature (nice with a seven-year old who walks around with the remote and leaves it in the oddest places), you can easily program it for other devices from on screen menus (no more entering codes!) and can learn commands (I used this to program the AUX on the remote to support our little HDMI switch remote)
> 
> Even though I don't have an external drive connected, I do like the way that Dish handles them. While DirecTV will just replace the internal drive with the external, Dish uses theirs as an archiving device where shows can be manually copied. A lot of current Dish users are using this to save out their shows from their old DVRs and transfer them to their new Hopper. So, upgrading without losing any programming -- Nice. And it will support multiple external drives.
> 
> Fast-forwarding playback is very smooth and there is an actual slow motion feature. (I never could get the HR21 one to work.)
> 
> Three hour guide instead of 90 minutes.
> 
> The Hopper/Joeys still have some bugs to work out, but it is already a very usable system. If you don't like to be on the bleeding edge, I would wait a couple of months, but for most of our types on these forums, it is a truly rocking system and well worth the look.


Could you please tell us how exactly you confirmed that when you set a timer for a show on a network with PTAT also turned n that it records off the PTAT tuner and moves it to your space automatically? Thanks!

DirecTV s new remotes don't make you type in codes anymore either, but they do not allow you to learn. That is a nice feature.

Wait, you mean DirecTV isn't the only one who puts out hardware that isn't perfect and has some issues and isn't feature complete! That's crazy!!! :lol:


----------



## mdavej

inkahauts said:


> Could you please tell us how exactly you confirmed that when you set a timer for a show on a network with PTAT also turned n that it records off the PTAT tuner and moves it to your space automatically? Thanks!


HERE's confirmation of that.


----------



## Daniel

inkahauts said:


> Could you please tell us how exactly you confirmed that when you set a timer for a show on a network with PTAT also turned n that it records off the PTAT tuner and moves it to your space automatically? Thanks!


I have several timers set for PTAT shows and they show up on the user side as they are suppose to and I was watching one of them to make sure that it wasn't using an additional tuner. Works like a charm.


----------



## Diana C

Shades228 said:


> Back when this came out I said this about it and I still believe it to be true:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2946250#post2946250
> 
> The main point of this was that Dish is still either afraid of the boogeyman or they just don't have the engineering to change what they do. I know the second point isn't true so the first must be. This hopper/joey system is severely limited to the average consumer home. It's not back in the late 80's and early 90's where only the well off had more than 2 tv's. The fact that they did something to not have a system allow live tv in 4 rooms and let alone be able to record while 3 tv's were being used is just short sighted at this time in the game. They have always done things to make it non friendly for consumers who have larger systems.
> 
> The HR34 was a step forward in technology the Hopper is a side step at best. If you remove the PTA feature it's a glorified HD DVR that can support remote clients that don't have their own tuners. So for a smaller home where you only need 1-2 shows going at a time you're fine but other than that bottle necked. Even if you max out at 2 of them you're still only going to have at max 6 live tuners which is barely enough for a 4 room setup and having recordings.


I'd go further...building a device whose "killer feature" is recording *broadcast* TV just ignores every trend in TV viewing habits. Heck, everybody is talking about how internet delivery of content on demand is going to make ALL traditional TV channels obsolete. The 4 major networks have been losing viewers for years, a trend that shows no signs of abating.

I know in our house, whenever we need more than 2 tuners for recording there is rarely more than one major network program involved. More than 70% of our season passes are for shows on AMC, HBO, TNT, Showtime, SyFy and USA.


----------



## lparsons21

Titan25 said:


> I'd go further...building a device whose "killer feature" is recording *broadcast* TV just ignores every trend in TV viewing habits. Heck, everybody is talking about how internet delivery of content on demand is going to make ALL traditional TV channels obsolete. The 4 major networks have been losing viewers for years, a trend that shows no signs of abating.
> 
> I know in our house, whenever we need more than 2 tuners for recording there is rarely more than one major network program involved. More than 70% of our season passes are for shows on AMC, HBO, TNT, Showtime, SyFy and USA.


Dish claims to have a study which says that most recording contentions are with broadcast channels vice the 'cable' type channels. I know that is the way it is with me. If it wasn't for my recordings of broadcast channels, I could have at most 2 tuners for my use and 2 for my son and be good to go.

And yes, those broadcast channels are losing viewers, but they aren't going to the cable type channels either it seems.

It helps that all those in your 70% incessantly run reruns so time of recording isn't an issue.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> Dish claims to have a study which says that most recording contentions are with broadcast channels vice the 'cable' type channels. I know that is the way it is with me. If it wasn't for my recordings of broadcast channels, I could have at most 2 tuners for my use and 2 for my son and be good to go.
> 
> And yes, those broadcast channels are losing viewers, but they aren't going to the cable type channels either it seems.
> 
> It helps that all those in your 70% incessantly run reruns so time of recording isn't an issue.


I know I don't fit the average demographics, but I just checked my SLs.
31% are local networks, leaving 69% "cable" channels.
Doesn't sound like Dish asked me in their study. :lol:


----------



## Davenlr

Would do me no good either. I have 1 series link for the entire week on a network channel, all the rest are cable channels.


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> I know I don't fit the average demographics, but I just checked my SLs.
> 31% are local networks, leaving 69% "cable" channels.
> Doesn't sound like Dish asked me in their study. :lol:


You and I are too old for them to care what we think!


----------



## Jodean

AquiringSat said:


> DirecTV has Free On-Demand Network Programming, which is what this Hopper thing records.
> 
> But anyway, this is (and always will be) the difference between Dish Network and DirecTV.
> 
> Dish Network = Cheap Price, Cheap Service, Cheap Equipment, and Restrictions
> 
> DirecTV = Competitive Price, Great Service, Top of the Line Equipment, and the Most Programming Options
> 
> Ya Get Wat Ya Pay For!


Are you frikin kidding me? Directv has had the WORST equipment, slowest, buggy, locked up, of almost anyone provider before the hr24 and h24 came out.

FAIL!!!

Ok maybe not the worst but not anywhere near the best

Actually this entire post is a FAIL



AquiringSat said:


> DirecTV has Free On-Demand Network Programming, which is what this Hopper thing records.


I have not found any network programming on demand for any network shows ive wanted to watch.



AquiringSat said:


> Dish Network = Cheap Price, Cheap Service, Cheap Equipment, and Restrictions


Not always true...

Dish 4 room 722 612 612 612 with top 250 = 69.99 +10+10+10+6 = 105

Directv 4 room 4 HR24's with ultimate = 74.99 +6+6+6+8 = 101

Cheap service??? not sure what that means, is that where HD is still watchable during a rainstorm when KA goes out on DIrectv?

Cheap equipment?.....hmmm... considering the 722 came out some 6 years ago and still beats out the hr24 (in singlue mode) is truly amazing, records 3 HD programs, just as fast, just as reliable. Directv was only about 5 years behind on that one.....

Restrictions? Like? Having east and west sat available for sat access on almost any apartment complex from the balcony being that you cain aim the dish both directions?



AquiringSat said:


> DirecTV = Competitive Price, Great Service, Top of the Line Equipment, and the Most Programming Options


Price without promotions is normally always more than any other provider.

good service except for the searching for satellite during rain.

Top of the line equipment? They just FINALLY caught up with every one else, and for an upgrade fee you can get the best out there right now, but thats only been out for a couple months.

Most programming, well i know what he means here but as long as he was wrong about everything else i will claim this technically wrong as well, Dish has about 30 international packages you could order, so nope no more options.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> Are you frikin kidding me? Directv has had the WORST equipment, slowest, buggy, locked up, of almost anyone provider before the hr24 and h24 came out.
> 
> FAIL!!!


Clearly you've never had your hands on a Motorola DVR. :nono:


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> You and I are too old for them to care what we think!


Sad, but true


----------



## TBoneit

Titan25 said:


> I'd go further...building a device whose "killer feature" is recording *broadcast* TV just ignores every trend in TV viewing habits. Heck, everybody is talking about how internet delivery of content on demand is going to make ALL traditional TV channels obsolete. The 4 major networks have been losing viewers for years, a trend that shows no signs of abating.
> 
> I know in our house, whenever we need more than 2 tuners for recording there is rarely more than one major network program involved. More than 70% of our season passes are for shows on AMC, HBO, TNT, Showtime, SyFy and USA.


Maybe I'm an anomaly?

At least 60% Networks.

I don't want MRV. If I had two Hoppers they would have to have the isolator on them to keep them separate. (Due to the mad deleter on the other DVR ), Watch and delete, Oh did you want to watch that too?

So the DVR I use has two tuners and 95% of the time that is enough. When the networks are showing re-runs I have no interest in those show. When the cable channels are showing re-runs, No interest.
It works out good that during rerun season on one the other has new shows.

I do have a HDD equipped DVD Recorder where I record the few network shows when three things are showing that I'd like to watch. The picture quality from a HD local recorded to the hard drive of 720 by 480 resolution is acceptable to me.

Given this scenario a Hopper recording PTAT would most likely have the other two tuners unused all the time, during prime time. Other times 2 tuners is more than enough.


----------



## inkahauts

"mdavej" said:


> HERE's confirmation of that.


Unfortunately I don't believe anything at that site based on past experience that proves they aren't reliable.

But that is the process that should confirm it works and if it does that's excellent.


----------



## bobvick1983

Titan25 said:


> I'd go further...building a device whose "killer feature" is recording *broadcast* TV just ignores every trend in TV viewing habits. Heck, everybody is talking about how internet delivery of content on demand is going to make ALL traditional TV channels obsolete. The 4 major networks have been losing viewers for years, a trend that shows no signs of abating.
> 
> I know in our house, whenever we need more than 2 tuners for recording there is rarely more than one major network program involved. More than 70% of our season passes are for shows on AMC, HBO, TNT, Showtime, SyFy and USA.


Your viewing habits sound much like mine. I watch one show from the networks, that is it. I really cant see where PTAT is that big of a deal. Like you said, viewership of network TV continues to decline every year. I think it is mainly a marketing ploy to be able to say that Hopper can record "six things at once."


----------



## Jodean

You guys are hilarious

90% of what i record and anyone i talk to about television records networks stations

All of my shows i try to record OTA onto my 722, sometimes im using all 3 tuners at once using my 722 just for networks

It does almost seem like a better deal than a hopper would be 2 722k's with OTA cards, 8 tuners for a $99 setup fee on new accounts


----------



## inkahauts

"Jodean" said:


> You guys are hilarious
> 
> 90% of what i record and anyone i talk to about television records networks stations
> 
> All of my shows i try to record OTA onto my 722, sometimes im using all 3 tuners at once using my 722 just for networks
> 
> It does almost seem like a better deal than a hopper would be 2 722k's with OTA cards, 8 tuners for a $99 setup fee on new accounts


Trust me when I say, we don't all strive to be like you.... 

Seem people watch more network, some more cable, some, like me, depends on the time of the year. Cable dominates my recordings in the summer, network is ahead in the fall and spring, and it's close to a tie in the first part of the new year every year, because of the way cable runs their shows these days.

The only constant is the variety of ways people watch and record tv. That's why the hopper, the hr34, or multiple combinations of other boxes from either service may be better for some but not others. There is no perfect answer when it comes to which setup works better for everyone, at least not right now. Until one provider offers up a 16tuner dvr with 1000 hours record time in a raid like setup with rvu like clients this debate will go on. And I am not bringing pq into this statement, just physical abilities.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> You guys are hilarious
> 90% of what i record and anyone i talk to about television records networks stations


I think this goes to show the differences in demographics. 
I'm not going to pick on anyone's viewing habits, but it's fairly clear you're watching things that I have zero interest in.


----------



## Jodean

you dont have to strive to be like me....has nothing to do with me.....this is just most people.

This is just what i come across on peoples list when im at their place

Most people watch crap that i never would either.

For me its stuff like, House - 2 and half men - simpsons - greys anatomny - 

the stuff i find on people lists are crap like glee, american idol, housewives, whatever sporting event was on the local station, tonight show, soaps, game shows

most of stuff i find in random homes has this stuff on the list, this isnt just here either, have worked in 5 diff states, same stuff


----------



## hasan

inkahauts said:


> Cable dominates my recordings in the summer, network is ahead in the fall and spring, and it's close to a tie in the first part of the new year every year, because of the way cable runs their shows these days.


Our viewing habits are very similar to yours. Many of our favorites now run split seasons, and there are always shows we like on USA and TNT, in the summer. Having just recently discovered Justified on FX, I don't know how they parcel out their season.

The one solution we have discovered is quite simple:

Whatever it takes to get 4 to 7 recordable tuners, and at least one DVR with a 2 TB external on it.

When the HR20-700 fails (with 2 TB drive), I'm looking to replace it with the HR-34 (5 tuners). That will leave us with one more DVR and one HD-Receiver, and at the 8 tuner limit of our SWiM system.

Of course this doesn't count the single HR20-100 on its own dish, (non-SWiM) in the HGTV/SoapNet section of the house.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> you dont have to strive to be like me....has nothing to do with me.....this is just most people.


I very much doubt "I'll be striving", but you're still talking demographics.
Of your 4, I record one [leave that for you to guess :lol:].


----------



## carl6

Jodean said:


> You guys are hilarious
> 
> 90% of what i record and anyone i talk to about television records networks stations


Hilarious or not, my wife and I combined record 1 network show from prime time a week. One, that's it. We do record Discovery, National Geo, HBO (movies but not series), Smithsonian, etc. Sadly, there just isn't anything on in prime time that even remotely appeals to us.

I think what is important for everyone to realize is that viewing habits are as varied as the people that view. No two are alike. What serves one viewer well will not serve the next, and vice-versa. That is why choice is good. Choose the service and equipment that satisfies your needs, and let the next person do the same for their needs. Neither is right nor wrong, just different. To argue that Dish is better than DirecTV, or vice-versa, is without merit. Each serves a group of subscribers. Each is "right" for some, and not for others.

Further, trying to assign labels to individuals because of their preferences or choice of providers, is equally without merit. I have chosen DirecTV because it meets my needs. That doesn't make a Dish subscriber wrong. Nor is it valid for someone else to challenge my choice. My choice is right for me, and that is the only thing that matters, to me. It matters not in the slightest (to me) what your choice is.


----------



## Jodean

again, its not my choice, its 90% of people choice....

Try taking about local stations or find a place that still has no locals.....ya they dont and WONT have directv.


----------



## sigma1914

Jodean said:


> again, its not my choice, its 90% of people choice....
> 
> Try taking about local stations or find a place that still has no locals.....ya they dont and WONT have directv.


I know the answer, but I'll ask anyway... Where does your 90% stat come from?


----------



## Shades228

Jodean said:


> Are you frikin kidding me? Directv has had the WORST equipment, slowest, buggy, locked up, of almost anyone provider before the hr24 and h24 came out.
> 
> FAIL!!!
> 
> Ok maybe not the worst but not anywhere near the best
> 
> Actually this entire post is a FAIL
> 
> I have not found any network programming on demand for any network shows ive wanted to watch.
> 
> Not always true...
> 
> Dish 4 room 722 612 612 612 with top 250 = 69.99 +10+10+10+6 = 105
> 
> Directv 4 room 4 HR24's with ultimate = 74.99 +6+6+6+8 = 101
> 
> Cheap service??? not sure what that means, is that where HD is still watchable during a rainstorm when KA goes out on DIrectv?
> 
> Cheap equipment?.....hmmm... considering the 722 came out some 6 years ago and still beats out the hr24 (in singlue mode) is truly amazing, records 3 HD programs, just as fast, just as reliable. Directv was only about 5 years behind on that one.....
> 
> Restrictions? Like? Having east and west sat available for sat access on almost any apartment complex from the balcony being that you cain aim the dish both directions?
> 
> Price without promotions is normally always more than any other provider.
> 
> good service except for the searching for satellite during rain.
> 
> Top of the line equipment? They just FINALLY caught up with every one else, and for an upgrade fee you can get the best out there right now, but thats only been out for a couple months.
> 
> Most programming, well i know what he means here but as long as he was wrong about everything else i will claim this technically wrong as well, Dish has about 30 international packages you could order, so nope no more options.


If you have signal issues when it rains perhaps you should get a service call.

I could point counterpoint your whole post but once again you just prove that you choose to ignore what is true and just go based on what you feel. The facts are that given specific requirements each company could be better for a customer.

Too bad your favorite company just can't be the only one that pays your bills so you can complain online.


----------



## dpeters11

"Jodean" said:


> again, its not my choice, its 90% of people choice....
> 
> Try taking about local stations or find a place that still has no locals.....ya they dont and WONT have directv.


For me, my main need for wanting a local isn't for network shows, but local events, breaking news in the area.


----------



## veryoldschool

sigma1914 said:


> I know the answer, but I'll ask anyway... Where does your 90% stat come from?


Sometimes you get it from the horse's mouth, but other times the horse is pointed the other way.  :lol:


----------



## Laxguy

Jodean said:


> again, its not my choice, its 90% of people choice....
> 
> Try taking about local stations or find a place that still has no locals.....ya they dont and WONT have directv.


Is "SD" South Dakota, or San Diego? Or other?

Still, it's 90% of the preselected group you call on; not necessarily at all representative of satellite audiences.


----------



## AquiringSat

Jodean said:


> Are you frikin kidding me? Directv has had the WORST equipment, slowest, buggy, locked up, of almost anyone provider before the hr24 and h24 came out.
> 
> FAIL!!!
> 
> Ok maybe not the worst but not anywhere near the best
> 
> Actually this entire post is a FAIL
> 
> I have not found any network programming on demand for any network shows ive wanted to watch.
> 
> Not always true...
> 
> Dish 4 room 722 612 612 612 with top 250 = 69.99 +10+10+10+6 = 105
> 
> Directv 4 room 4 HR24's with ultimate = 74.99 +6+6+6+8 = 101
> 
> Cheap service??? not sure what that means, is that where HD is still watchable during a rainstorm when KA goes out on DIrectv?
> 
> Cheap equipment?.....hmmm... considering the 722 came out some 6 years ago and still beats out the hr24 (in singlue mode) is truly amazing, records 3 HD programs, just as fast, just as reliable. Directv was only about 5 years behind on that one.....
> 
> Restrictions? Like? Having east and west sat available for sat access on almost any apartment complex from the balcony being that you cain aim the dish both directions?
> 
> Price without promotions is normally always more than any other provider.
> 
> good service except for the searching for satellite during rain.
> 
> Top of the line equipment? They just FINALLY caught up with every one else, and for an upgrade fee you can get the best out there right now, but thats only been out for a couple months.
> 
> Most programming, well i know what he means here but as long as he was wrong about everything else i will claim this technically wrong as well, Dish has about 30 international packages you could order, so nope no more options.


LOL, Wow!

First of All, by service, I meant Customer Service, but I've only experienced rain fade once, for like 3 minutes. (but look at my location ) And my HR 34 beats anything Dish Network offers, as obvious by the posts in this thread.

And by Restrictions, I mean how I wouldn't be able to subscribe to anything I want with Dish Network, (Premiums in HD and Out of Market Sports Packages) and with your Dish Network, Don't you also have to have multiple satellite dishes set up to equal what DirecTV offers with just one? I'm not sure that's true, but my friend has Dish, and he has like 4 18" dishes compared to my one slimline.

So Yeah, for me, and for what I like to watch, the Dish Network is Complete Crap, pretty much like that cable I used to have.


----------



## Hoosier205

"Jodean" said:


> Are you frikin kidding me? Directv has had the WORST equipment, slowest, buggy, locked up, of almost anyone provider before the hr24 and h24 came out.
> 
> FAIL!!!
> 
> Ok maybe not the worst but not anywhere near the best
> 
> Actually this entire post is a FAIL
> 
> I have not found any network programming on demand for any network shows ive wanted to watch.
> 
> Not always true...
> 
> Dish 4 room 722 612 612 612 with top 250 = 69.99 +10+10+10+6 = 105
> 
> Directv 4 room 4 HR24's with ultimate = 74.99 +6+6+6+8 = 101
> 
> Cheap service??? not sure what that means, is that where HD is still watchable during a rainstorm when KA goes out on DIrectv?
> 
> Cheap equipment?.....hmmm... considering the 722 came out some 6 years ago and still beats out the hr24 (in singlue mode) is truly amazing, records 3 HD programs, just as fast, just as reliable. Directv was only about 5 years behind on that one.....
> 
> Restrictions? Like? Having east and west sat available for sat access on almost any apartment complex from the balcony being that you cain aim the dish both directions?
> 
> Price without promotions is normally always more than any other provider.
> 
> good service except for the searching for satellite during rain.
> 
> Top of the line equipment? They just FINALLY caught up with every one else, and for an upgrade fee you can get the best out there right now, but thats only been out for a couple months.
> 
> Most programming, well i know what he means here but as long as he was wrong about everything else i will claim this technically wrong as well, Dish has about 30 international packages you could order, so nope no more options.


Dish has crap HD picture quality. End of story.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

When I see a house with Dish Network I always think lesser of the people that live there. I'm not saying that it's right to think that way but I just do.


----------



## Davenlr

SPACEMAKER said:


> When I see a house with Dish Network I always think lesser of the people that live there. I'm not saying that it's right to think that way but I just do.


Friends dont let friends watch HD lite? 

I cringe when I see a house with a empty HDTV carton on the street for the trash men, and see a SD dish (either company) on the roof!


----------



## inkahauts

Jodean said:


> again, its not my choice, its 90% of people choice....
> 
> Try taking about local stations or find a place that still has no locals.....ya they dont and WONT have directv.


90% of people? Maybe on your planet, but not here on earth...

Sure most people won't go without their locals, but that doesn't mean 90% of their viewing is from locals AND during prime time. It means there is at least one thing on those channels they want, and really, when was the last time someone changed to another service without some of the major channels that they have currently?

Oh, and that's for Directv and Dish, not just Directv, the company you don't like for some reason....

This is a bit old, but seeing how the trend is moving towards more and more cable, I am sure its close enough for even you to see that network primetime is closer to 50% of where viewers eyes are than on cable channels.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/04/12/where-did-the-primetime-broadcast-tv-audience-go/47976/

Cable may have very few programs that get the same ratings as a primetime network channel program, but if you do the math..

sorta like..

4 networks get say 40 million viewers, each around 10 million...

80 networks get another 40 million, average of around what, 500K...

Still half the viewers are not on the networks...


----------



## Hoosier205

"SPACEMAKER" said:


> When I see a house with Dish Network I always think lesser of the people that live there. I'm not saying that it's right to think that way but I just do.


+1 Haha!


----------



## Jodean

you guys are WAY out of wack.....

If you read my comparison post between the two, I am not on one side or the other. Who says i dont like Directv??? I know.....most of you dont read the actual post just post up what you THOUGHT you read.

For me.....seeing a post thats complete nonsense and is easily proven wrong is just begging for attention. Cant let it go. A guy comes on and claims stuff that EVERY point directv wins hands down.....well....NOPE wrong. Sorry, dont post if you dont know.

Its not my fault some people dont know both systems. Ive stated pros and cons of each. Ive never said well DISH is just better in every aspect, nope never said that.

Yet again, on one will actually read the post and just go off about directv is better for them or the ka signal doesnt go out in the rain........ya thats why there is a 10 page post about how rain fade happens so quickly with the KA band, look up the hillbilly dish mod.....ku stands in there way longer. Ill post up the videos of the other day when it was raining, not downpour just raining, since i have both systems on one tv, proof right there, HBO on directv was searching for signal, while i was watching non pixelated HBO on dish.

And yet once again some one states dish needs 4 dishes...............sigh.....


----------



## Jodean

sigma1914 said:


> I know the answer, but I'll ask anyway... Where does your 90% stat come from?


already answered on last page, go back and read.....why doesnt anyone read anymore? is there a 30 word slip feature on the forum?


----------



## Jodean

AquiringSat said:


> LOL, Wow!
> 
> First of All, by service, I meant Customer Service, but I've only experienced rain fade once, for like 3 minutes. (but look at my location ) And my HR 34 beats anything Dish Network offers, as obvious by the posts in this thread.
> 
> And by Restrictions, I mean how I wouldn't be able to subscribe to anything I want with Dish Network, (Premiums in HD and Out of Market Sports Packages) and with your Dish Network, Don't you also have to have multiple satellite dishes set up to equal what DirecTV offers with just one? I'm not sure that's true, but my friend has Dish, and he has like 4 18" dishes compared to my one slimline.
> 
> So Yeah, for me, and for what I like to watch, the Dish Network is Complete Crap, pretty much like that cable I used to have.


As stated.......directv has FINALLY caught up with their h24 and hr24 equipment, not sure why you are restating that. Also the hr34 just came out and i stated was now the best, not sure why you need to restate that.......

Considering i have both Dish and Direct with Everything pak and likewise Premier.....not sure what is even meant by you want premium HD channels, seems to be on both systems.

as far as customer service, i really have to say Dish has that one. I have to call into both all the time.

9 out of 10 directv reps dont have a clue. I had 3 in a row tell me Sioux Falls is not an MPEG4 market.


----------



## AquiringSat

Jodean, You keeping bringing up problems with DirecTV that none of us seem to care about it. No provider is perfect, but my experience with DirecTV has been pretty close  I don't understand why you subscribe to both, but I don't like people telling me what to do with my money, so I won't tell you what to do with your's.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> Yet again, on one will actually read the post and just go off about directv is better for them or the ka signal doesnt go out in the rain........ya thats why there is a 10 page post about how rain fade happens so quickly with the KA band, look up the hillbilly dish mod.....ku stands in there way longer. Ill post up the videos of the other day when it was raining, *not downpour just raining*, since i have both systems on one tv, proof right there, HBO on directv was searching for signal, while i was watching non pixelated HBO on dish.


There isn't a question about Ka verses Ku, "but" if yours is fading when it's "just raining", something is wrong, or you're not looking at the slant angle to the SAT and there is a serious storm there.
Do I have rainfade? yes, but over the years it's been slight and hasn't lasted very long. Most of the time it's been hailing, but last week the radar showed yellow, orange, and a fair amount of red between me and the SAT. A few mins later it was back.


----------



## Davenlr

Jodean, that isnt a valid test of KA vs KU. DirecTv is at 99-103. Dish is at 69 and 129. Its very possible the storm could be between the two dish satellites and knock out Directv, while its possible a storm to your East/West could knock out dish, and Directv would be coming in ok.

Yes, KU on a 1M dish is much much more reliable that it is with a 18" or slimline. KA is about 50% better, as far as length of time its out.

Currently, there is a 45 dbz storm directly to my SSW. KU is reading 100%, and KA is reading 84 on 99, and 76 on 103...but they are still on. It takes a 55 dbz or higher cell directly in line with the satellite to knock out KA, and 60 or higher to knock out KU.

The dbz scale can be seen on the side of the National Weather Service radars.

If you are reading this in the few minutes after I posted it, you can check this link to see what the radar looks like now:
http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=LZK&product=NCR&overlay=11101111&loop=yes

I am 1 mile south of the radar site, which is the gray blob just above Little Rock. My house in the the cross of the first T in Little.

Edit: KA at 43%, KU at 97% now. Still holding a picture.

Edit: Storm passed. KA never dropped below 43%, back up to 80's now. Received 1.1 inches of rain in 40 minutes. Not to bad.


----------



## Laxguy

Jodean said:


> already answered on last page, go back and read.....why doesnt anyone read anymore? is there a 30 word slip feature on the forum?


You've failed to reply to my post. Completely.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Hopefully we can get back to the comparions instead of the "I'm right and you're wrong" banter.

I recently had DirecTV installed at a new house I purchased. I had DirecTV installed instead of Dish (at my current home) because the new customer deal would save me about $40 per month over a Dish move. New system is an HR34 and 3 HR24s.

I feel I can do some decent comparions since I currently have both. On programming I sure do miss some of the HD that Dish has that Direct doesn't. The Direct receivers are dead slow to respond to the remote compared to the Dish VIP series receivers. I do really like the whole home DVR feature of Direct. I can not see any HD picture quality difference between the two on my 42" Panny plasma or 37" Visio LCD. Dish's SD picture quality is far better.

While Direct is not bad by any means, in my opinion Dish has better receivers and HD programming selection (I'm not a huge sports fan other then collage football). But it is not $40 a month better! Once my two year contract is up I will most likely go back to to Dish if hardware/programming is comparable to what it is now.


----------



## lparsons21

AquiringSat said:


> LOL, Wow!
> 
> First of All, by service, I meant Customer Service, but I've only experienced rain fade once, for like 3 minutes. (but look at my location ) And my HR 34 beats anything Dish Network offers, as obvious by the posts in this thread.
> 
> And by Restrictions, I mean how I wouldn't be able to subscribe to anything I want with Dish Network, (Premiums in HD and Out of Market Sports Packages) and with your Dish Network, Don't you also have to have multiple satellite dishes set up to equal what DirecTV offers with just one? I'm not sure that's true, but my friend has Dish, and he has like 4 18" dishes compared to my one slimline.
> 
> So Yeah, for me, and for what I like to watch, the Dish Network is Complete Crap, pretty much like that cable I used to have.


My D* setup fades a little quicker than my E* setup used to, but the differences are not enough to be a big deal imo. And no, the HR34 doesn't beat anything Dish offers in operation/use, it all depends on what/how/when you watch and record. I could have either Hopper and one Joey, or HR34 and one Hxx and be good to go and wouldn't miss a beat on shows.

And your restrictions are not restrictions, and not even complete. How about if you want international channels? D* is pretty sparse there. The rest is just programming differences, neither one has it all. D* certainly has the leg up on sports, especially if you break out the checkbook.

Dish's dish setup these days is either Western Arc or Eastern Arc, plus internationals. There are some older installations out there that have a mix, but Dish has made it quite attractive to change to the full arc setup if they want to change.


----------



## mdavej

"SPACEMAKER" said:


> When I see a house with Dish Network I always think lesser of the people that live there. I'm not saying that it's right to think that way but I just do.


I cringe when I have to watch something in SD on DirecTV when I know every other provider has it in HD. HD lite beats the heck out of SD. I will give credit where credit is due, DirecTV does have more SD (if you can even call I that) than anyone else.


----------



## Hoosier205

mdavej said:


> ...when I know *every other provider has it in HD.*


False. No provider has it all. There are no HD channels that are carried by every provider except DirecTV.



mdavej said:


> HD lite beats the heck out of SD.


...are you really advocating for HD-lite? Seriously? Go for it. Enjoy. If you want to spend that kind of money on equipment/services and then settle for inferior picture quality...good luck. That's why Dish Network exists. To pick over the DirecTV leftovers. Some folks don't value quality and Dish Network is grateful for that.


----------



## lparsons21

You mean the inferior video quality that most don't even notice?


----------



## kevinturcotte

When dish releases a receiver that allows me to record 5 or more channels at once, *24/7*, then I might start looking at them. They'd also have to have a receiver that allowed Live Tv viewing AND remote viewing from a DVR.


----------



## Hoosier205

lparsons21 said:


> You mean the inferior video quality that most don't even notice?


Did you ever notice that only people who claim they don't notice are those who are on the hook to pay Dish Network and feel the need to justify that decision?

You just choose to ignore the DirecTV customers who have checked into Dish Network, found the HD picture quality lacking, and decided to stay with DirecTV. Then you also have the Dish Network customers who have left for the same reason. There are multiple reason why Dish Network so far behind DirecTV. This is just one of them.

Choose Dish Network if you want fewer HD channels and intentionally reduced picture quality. Charlie decided there was a market for customers with lower standards.


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> Did you ever notice that only people who claim they don't notice are those who are on the hook to pay Dish Network and feel the need to justify that decision?
> 
> You just choose to ignore the DirecTV customers who have checked into Dish Network, found the HD picture quality lacking, and decided to stay with DirecTV. Then you also have the Dish Network customers who have left for the same reason. There are multiple reason why Dish Network so far behind DirecTV. This is just one of them.
> 
> Choose Dish Network if you want fewer HD channels and intentionally reduced picture quality. Charlie decided there was a market for customers with lower standards.


Hmmm.... I guess you didn't notice my sig? i have 3 HR24s, how many of them do you think I have watching Dish provided channels?

Previously I had Dish, D* before that and a mix of various ones over many, many years. On my 54" Panny plasma, the difference between D* and E* HD is very minimal to the viewer, and E*'s SD is far superior to D*'s SD.

As to HD channels, with both I get nearly all I want. Exception is BBCA-HD with D*, and Showtime Extreme with E*. Otherwise the channel selection is just fine with both.


----------



## Hoosier205

lparsons21 said:


> Hmmm.... I guess you didn't notice my sig? i have 3 HR24s, how many of them do you think I have watching Dish provided channels?
> 
> Previously I had Dish, D* before that and a mix of various ones over many, many years. On my 54" Panny plasma, the difference between D* and E* HD is very minimal to the viewer, and E*'s SD is far superior to D*'s SD.
> 
> As to HD channels, with both I get nearly all I want. Exception is BBCA-HD with D*, and Showtime Extreme with E*. Otherwise the channel selection is just fine with both.


We can keep going around about this for a long as you like, but the fact remains that Dish Network's HD picture quality is inferior to DirecTV's. You have your own agenda and that has been known for a very long time. If the Dish trolls were so happy, they wouldn't be over here.


----------



## lparsons21

Hoosier205 said:


> We can keep going around about this for a long as you like, but the fact remains that Dish Network's HD picture quality is inferior to DirecTV's. You have your own agenda and that has been known for a very long time. If the Dish trolls were so happy, they wouldn't be over here.


Yeah, we could go on and on about this, but I think we've each made a point.

As to my agenda, well if I have one, it is that I don't like bad/incorrect, or just opinion to be construed as fact. I have had and will have in the future, both services at different times. The differences are minimal for my watching/recording imo.

Your agenda is well known also. BTW, does D* send you the pom poms, or do you have to buy them yourself? 

To me an HR34 w/RVU or receiver clients is no better or worse than a Hopper with Joey clients. Both offer central management of recordings and the tuner count needs are met with both.

I don't like MRV with my 3 HR24s because of a lack of central management.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> Yeah, we could go on and on about this, but...


You've kept fairly close to the middle of the road here, and hopefully will continue in a open discussion of the two services.
Some of us do enjoy hearing from those that have compared both "first hand".


----------



## lparsons21

One thing I think that is missing with both D* and E*'s implementation of MRV is a way to know when it is safe to delete a program.

For instance, I generally set up most timers for scripted shows, boxing and golf and the occasional movie. But my son also likes some of them, but with his work schedule he generally watches them at much different times than I do. 

So if he watches it first, I know that when I watch it, it is safe to delete. No problem.

But if I watch it first, he doesn't know if it is something I want to keep or if it is safe to delete. And as I tend to keep a fair amount of things, he just never deletes anything except what he records on his HR.

It would be nice if you could unmark shows that have been watched imo.


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> You've kept fairly close to the middle of the road here, and hopefully will continue in a open discussion of the two services.
> Some of us do enjoy hearing from those that have compared both "first hand".


I try to be fair and balanced, because I like the discussions and I generally learn something new to me in them. And since I'm not a big fanboi, nor a 'loyal customer', I think that I can do that.

But occasionally I can't resist tweaking a nose here and there... :lol:

Frankly if there was a reasonable way to have both services at the same time, I would do it. But there is so much duplication in the subs, especially if you are in contract that it doesn't make financial sense to have D* with TC+ Classic and E* with T200.

I'd love it if I could have E* with T200 + BB for the channels it gives that I find most interesting.

And use D* to have HBO/Showtime/Sportspack only.

That way I would have all the basic HD and the HD extra channels I would ever need, and also have the best premium HD selection.


----------



## DLP2008

I've used both for several years...first directv for about 3 years, dish for about 3, and I'm currently back to D*. I will say that I didn't notice a great difference in the PQ, but the hardware and customer service are way better with D* hands down. I would never consider switching away again.


----------



## bobvick1983

veryoldschool said:


> As if the same can't be said about you. :nono:
> 
> This "fact" only becomes one, if the viewer can notice it.


I have had both D* and E*. Back when E* had the Voom channels the HD pq was of excellent quality (to me) it looked better than D* back in that time.
Since E* has began to compress more HD channels into a transponder (I think they do about 8 sometimes 9) the decrease in PQ became much more noticable. 
When I came back to D* I could tell a big difference in the PQ, but that is subjective, and my opinion. 
For SD, I would have to give the edge to E*'s eastern arc however. But I try to avoid watching any more SD than I have to.


----------



## mdavej

Hoosier205 said:


> Did you ever notice that only people who claim they don't notice are those who are on the hook to pay Dish Network and feel the need to justify that decision?


I just finished 2 years with Dish, having come from DirecTV. I had a chance to get a new HR34 and some fantastic new customer deals, but when I saw that DirecTV is STILL missing the 30 basic HD channels I've had on Dish after all that time, I signed on for another 2 years with Dish. Until DirecTV catches up there is no chance I'll subject myself to all that SD, in spite of all the money DirecTV tried to throw at me.

I imagine another 2 years from now, the situation will be pretty much the same because DirecTV only cares about sports, PPV and premiums, not basic HD. And that's a fine business model. They have a niche and make a nice profit. Good for them. If they have all the content you want, then that's great. Enjoy it. But it's so severely lacking for me, it just doesn't fit my needs in the least. I simply refuse to pay for any service with so much SD. Just as you refuse to pay for any service with HD lite. So I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from. Your hatred of HD lite pales in comparison to my hatred of DirecTV SD.

Would I prefer full resolution HD on everything? Of course I would. I wish everything was 1080p. I'd even like to see 720p go away. The only reason I still follow the DirecTV side of the forums is because I hope DirecTV will someday catch up with everybody else on content. But life is about compromises. If I can get 30 more HD channels and take a virtually unnoticeable hit in PQ, I'll take it. Do you boycott 720p channels or Netflix because the content isn't the theoretical max resolution it could be? I bet you may even watch a 480p DVD now and then, God forbid.

In my household, I'll never use 5 tuners. So while the HR34 would be cool, it's more than I need. The 4 I had with Dish before was plenty. PTAT is just gravy. The bottom line is Dish's overall PQ is excellent as is their hardware, software, service, price and content.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> One thing I think that is missing with both D* and E*'s implementation of MRV is a way to know when it is safe to delete a program.
> 
> For instance, I generally set up most timers for scripted shows, boxing and golf and the occasional movie. But my son also likes some of them, but with his work schedule he generally watches them at much different times than I do.
> 
> So if he watches it first, I know that when I watch it, it is safe to delete. No problem.
> 
> But if I watch it first, he doesn't know if it is something I want to keep or if it is safe to delete. And as I tend to keep a fair amount of things, he just never deletes anything except what he records on his HR.
> 
> It would be nice if you could unmark shows that have been watched imo.


You might look at the options under the yellow button. If one has watched a show, it can be marked for deleting, so the other viewers may be able to see when they're done, it can be deleted. As a single viewer here, I don't have this need.


----------



## lparsons21

DLP2008 said:


> I've used both for several years...first directv for about 3 years, dish for about 3, and I'm currently back to D*. I will say that I didn't notice a great difference in the PQ, but the hardware and customer service are way better with D* hands down. I would never consider switching away again.


For me, customer service was always a wash. I've never had bad customer service from either, unless you count not getting something that I was begging for but didn't rate! 

As to hardware, well we'll have to disagree a little. D*'s HR series have always been plagued with slow operation and bad remote response. The HR24s addressed this quite well before the HDGUI appeared on the scene. And although I sometimes see my 3 HR24-500s operate nearly as fast as they did before that, it is never a certainty and never anything that I can see that causes the slowdown/lack of response to occur. Irritating!

And on the best days, the HR24 isn't quite as fast as my 722k was.

And the EHD situation with D* just sucks! E*'s approach is much better. Tie the drive to the account and use it as an additional storage device wins hands down over tie it to the receiver and replace the internal drive. And don't get me started on the hinkiness of ESATA drives with D*. It is the single reason I will never add an EHD to a D* HR.


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> You might look at the options under the yellow button. If one has watched a show, it can be marked for deleting, so the other viewers may be able to see when they're done, it can be deleted. As a single viewer here, I don't have this need.


Thanks for the tip, doesn't work! 

You can mark them, but if all you want to do is mark them and not delete right then, the mark disappears.

bummer!


----------



## Daniel

I was a little worried about 'HD Lite' warnings when I decided to go with Dish after 15+ years with DirecTV, but I have to say, I just don't see the difference in HD quality between the two. Technically DirecTV may is better, but if I can't tell the difference, what does it matter. (This is like the audiophiles that insist that analog vinyl is the only way to hear music, but my hearing isn't good enough to tell the difference, so why spend the extra money.) 

What I do see is that some of the channels that I watch are now in HD instead of the crappy SD on DirecTV. So for me, I count this as a win.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks for the tip, doesn't work!
> 
> You can mark them, but if all you want to do is mark them and not delete right then, the mark disappears.
> 
> bummer!


Damn, another feature that "should have been" useful.


----------



## lparsons21

veryoldschool said:


> Damn, another feature that "should have been" useful.


There's a lot of could be 'features' that aren't on both.

Channels I Get on D* has never worked, although if you have Ultimate(?) it is nearly right, but on E* it works flawlessly.

Search on D* is great, or was until they dumbed down Smart Search a bit, but is missing one thing that E* has, and that is a 'search' button. Basically if you're in a list with something highlighted and hit the 'search' button, it sets the search for that, beats the hell out of typing in the search text!

And because CIG doesn't work, search will show things you don't get, but they appear the same in the list as things you do, irritating. With E*, search will also get things you don't get, but the highlighting is different so you can see you don't get it.


----------



## Laxguy

lparsons21 said:


> Thanks for the tip, doesn't work!
> 
> You can mark them, but if all you want to do is mark them and not delete right then, the mark disappears.
> 
> bummer!


You can mark them with a Keep- blue button IIRC. So if it's a program you've watched partially, or want to keep for whatever reason, your son will know. If he's recorded a program you want to watch, also use the blue so he won't delete it when he's finished. Works all right in my house until I forget to mark something I want to keep that he's recorded.


----------



## sigma1914

I enjoy other sides unbiased opinions from folks like lparsons (who's now on this side) & mdavej. I just don't understand the dislike of a provider. Unless you're buying my service then it's no ones say what I get.

Personally, if Dish had MLB EI I'd probably definitely switch to a 2 Hopper system.


----------



## lparsons21

Laxguy said:


> You can mark them with a Keep- blue button IIRC. So if it's a program you've watched partially, or want to keep for whatever reason, your son will know. If he's recorded a program you want to watch, also use the blue so he won't delete it when he's finished. Works all right in my house until I forget to mark something I want to keep that he's recorded.


Wow! I never thought to use 'keep' to do that, makes perfect sense. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## veryoldschool

lparsons21 said:


> Wow! I never thought to use 'keep' to do that, makes perfect sense. Thanks for the tip.


See what happens in an open discussion, and everyone is able to get past "tastes great....less filling". :lol:


----------



## dualsub2006

"Jodean" said:


> You guys are hilarious
> 
> 90% of what i record and anyone i talk to about television records networks stations


I never record network shows. 100% of my non-sports viewing time goes to pay channels.


----------



## lparsons21

sigma1914 said:


> I enjoy other sides unbiased opinions from folks like lparsons (who's now on this side) & mdavej. I just don't understand the dislike of a provider. Unless you're buying my service then it's no ones say what I get.
> 
> Personally, if Dish had MLB EI I'd probably definitely switch to a 2 Hopper system.


I wouldn't say I'm unbiased, but since I actually like both services, warts and all, I think I can separate myth from fact! 

When I came back to D* this time, it was solely because my adult son that lives with me now (that's another story), wanted to follow his sainted San Diego football team and was willing to pay any extra it would cost to switch. Being at the end of my contract with Dish, it was easy and saved a couple bucks too.

When I left D* a quite a bit back it was solely because of the pig slow HR21 I had and I said so at the time.

When the HR34 became available for the rest of us, I called and was quoted $399+$50 install+$50 upgrade fee since I was fairly new in this contract. Not gonna pay that much for centralized management, which was all the HR34 would bring to the table.

But then the Hopper/Joey came out and I got to thinking, IF I could talk myself into seriously considering upgrading to an HR34 with D*, then what would be the difference if I just said to hell with it and switched paying a big ETF. Basically switching with a $340 ETF and getting the returning customer deal from E*, it would end up costing me around $150 (I think that's the number).

In the end, I just can't talk myself into paying an ETF though. Now come August, the ETF drops down to $240, and if I made the switch then I would end up saving $480 making it a net gain. I might just do that, but August is a long way away.


----------



## Jodean

Laxguy said:


> You've failed to reply to my post. Completely.


I find it redundant to answer the question twice....but here you go from above post

"most of stuff i find in random homes has this stuff on the list, this isnt just here either, have worked in 5 diff states, same stuff"

The states ive been in are SD, IA, MN, FL, TX

So what im saying it has nothing to do with my location, have worked in all areas and am sometimes asked to help setup their shows they had setup on the old dvr from cable, all of which are prime time network shows.


----------



## RACJ2

I guess our household falls close to that 90% network programming. I checked the series recordings we set up on the recently installed HR34 and only 4 out of 29 were non-network or 14%. Since 3 are channels recording sports on non-network channels in 3 hr blocks, multiple nights per week, the actual % of hours of non-network recording is higher then 14% .


----------



## Jodean

Ok this was the last little storm that went by

I didnt notice i had the video mode set to texting, but you all know what the blue banner on the lower right corner is......Was watching HBOe on Dish and Directv, Dish had full picture no pixelation, Directv was down completely.

After storm left i grabbed reading off both systems


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean,
I'm not sure the point of your pictures.
A radar picture would make much more sense, and during the 771 error message too.


----------



## mreposter

mdavej said:


> ...but when I saw that DirecTV is STILL missing the 30 basic HD channels I've had on Dish after all that time, I signed on for another 2 years with Dish...


I don't believe the difference is as great as you state. 
Here's the list I came up with:

*"BASICS" DISH has DIRECTV doesn't* (25)

BBC America
Bloomberg
Centric
Cooking Channel
DIY
E!
G4
Galavision
GSN
H2
HLN
Hub
ID - Investigation Discovery
Lifetime Movie Network
Logo <--- questionable, some reports it's just up-res SD
Mav TV
Nat Geo Wild
NFL Redzone
OWN Oprah Winfrey Network
PIXL
RFD-TV
Sportsman
Style
Turner Classic Movies
Veria

*"BASICS" DIRECTV has DISH doesn't* (10)

ABC Family
Disney
Disney XD
ESPN News
ESPN U
Fox Soccer Plus
Fuel TV
Gol TV
Shorts HD
Smithsonian

As others have said, "no provider has it all." Almost everyone here would like more HD, but this isn't like 5 years ago when the offerings were fairly limited. Most providers now offer significant number of HD channels.


----------



## Satelliteracer

mreposter said:


> I don't believe the difference is as great as you state.
> Here's the list I came up with:
> 
> *"BASICS" DISH has DIRECTV doesn't* (25)
> 
> BBC America
> Bloomberg
> Centric
> Cooking Channel
> DIY
> E!
> G4
> Galavision
> GSN
> H2
> HLN
> Hub
> ID - Investigation Discovery
> Lifetime Movie Network
> Logo <--- questionable, some reports it's just up-res SD
> Mav TV
> Nat Geo Wild
> NFL Redzone
> OWN Oprah Winfrey Network
> PIXL
> RFD-TV
> Sportsman
> Style
> Turner Classic Movies
> Veria
> 
> *"BASICS" DIRECTV has DISH doesn't* (10)
> 
> ABC Family
> Disney
> Disney XD
> ESPN News
> ESPN U
> Fox Soccer Plus
> Fuel TV
> Gol TV
> Shorts HD
> Smithsonian
> 
> As others have said, "no provider has it all." Almost everyone here would like more HD, but this isn't like 5 years ago when the offerings were fairly limited. Most providers now offer significant number of HD channels.


I would add things like YES Network, etc. They are considered "basics" in some DMAs because they are part of the base package. I know it's a hybrid, but this is another significant difference that D* carries many RSNs full time in HD which utilizes capacity. Other providers do not. D* seems to be penalized by some here for carrying those channels which use every bit the capacity another channel does (sometimes more because RSNs are sports based and use more capacity for fast moving imagery).


----------



## Kevin F

"Satelliteracer" said:


> I would add things like YES Network, etc. They are considered "basics" in some DMAs because they are part of the base package. I know it's a hybrid, but this is another significant difference that D* carries many RSNs full time in HD which utilizes capacity. Other providers do not. D* seems to be penalized by some here for carrying those channels which use every bit the capacity another channel does (sometimes more because RSNs are sports based and use more capacity for fast moving imagery).


I couldn't agree more with that statement.

Kevin


----------



## RAD

"Satelliteracer" said:


> I would add things like YES Network, etc. They are considered "basics" in some DMAs because they are part of the base package. I know it's a hybrid, but this is another significant difference that D* carries many RSNs full time in HD which utilizes capacity. Other providers do not. D* seems to be penalized by some here for carrying those channels which use every bit the capacity another channel does (sometimes more because RSNs are sports based and use more capacity for fast moving imagery).


Don't forget also DIRECTV also carries most alternate RSN channels in HD plus provides special events channels in HD like the Masters, US Open plus NASCAR HotPass on Sunday's.

That said, I'd also like to see more national basic HD channels added and hope SR's comments about more coming happens sooner then later.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> Don't forget also DIRECTV also carries most alternate RSN channels in HD plus provides special events channels in HD like the Masters, US Open plus NASCAR HotPass on Sunday's.


While maybe they shouldn't be forgotten, if you don't watch them, who cares? :shrug:


----------



## P Smith

Jodean said:


> Ok this was the last little storm that went by
> 
> I didnt notice i had the video mode set to texting, but you all know what the blue banner on the lower right corner is......Was watching HBOe on Dish and Directv, Dish had full picture no pixelation, Directv was down completely.
> 
> After storm left i grabbed reading off both systems
> [/IMG]


Little value for the pictures ...

If you would post two tables (all tpns, not the dish picture for one) for each provider: before/normal weather and during heaviest time of a storm.
Then we could talk ...


----------



## RAD

Does it really matter? We know that Ka band doesn't handle rain fade as well as Ku band so what's the point?


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> Does it really matter? We know that Ka band doesn't handle rain fade as well as Ku band so what's the point?


"If there was one", it might be to quantify the differences, more than "it sucks". :lol:
Having an idea of the amount of rain/storm intensity would be a start.


----------



## P Smith

I would invite Davenlr (?) here, who is using 1m or 1.2m reflector [from AK/HI DTV antenna]... He has pretty good Ka results during rain time.


----------



## tonyd79

"veryoldschool" said:


> While maybe they shouldn't be forgotten, if you don't watch them, who cares? :shrug:


That can be said of any channel. So why say it?


----------



## inkahauts

mreposter said:


> I don't believe the difference is as great as you state.
> Here's the list I came up with:
> 
> *"BASICS" DISH has DIRECTV doesn't* (25)
> 
> BBC America
> Bloomberg
> Centric
> Cooking Channel
> DIY
> E!
> G4
> Galavision
> GSN
> H2
> HLN
> Hub
> ID - Investigation Discovery
> Lifetime Movie Network
> Logo <--- questionable, some reports it's just up-res SD
> Mav TV
> Nat Geo Wild
> NFL Redzone
> OWN Oprah Winfrey Network
> PIXL
> RFD-TV
> Sportsman
> Style
> Turner Classic Movies
> Veria
> 
> *"BASICS" DIRECTV has DISH doesn't* (10)
> 
> ABC Family
> Disney
> Disney XD
> ESPN News
> ESPN U
> Fox Soccer Plus
> Fuel TV
> Gol TV
> Shorts HD
> Smithsonian
> 
> As others have said, "no provider has it all." Almost everyone here would like more HD, but this isn't like 5 years ago when the offerings were fairly limited. Most providers now offer significant number of HD channels.


The key is always what you watch. There is ZERO channels dish has that DIrectv doesn't that I watch right now.


----------



## inkahauts

Jodean said:


> you guys are WAY out of wack.....
> 
> If you read my comparison post between the two, I am not on one side or the other. Who says i dont like Directv??? I know.....most of you dont read the actual post just post up what you THOUGHT you read.


Could you please point us to the post where you did a real comparison between the two? I must have missed it...



Jodean said:


> already answered on last page, go back and read.....why doesnt anyone read anymore? is there a 30 word slip feature on the forum?


and I guess you missed this post I made that basically says your flat wrong about the 90% based on the numbers...



Jodean said:


> again, its not my choice, its 90% of people choice....
> 
> Try taking about local stations or find a place that still has no locals.....ya they dont and WONT have directv.


90% of people? Maybe on your planet, but not here on earth...

Sure most people won't go without their locals, but that doesn't mean 90% of their viewing is from locals AND during prime time. It means there is at least one thing on those channels they want, and really, when was the last time someone changed to another service without some of the major channels that they have currently?

Oh, and that's for Directv and Dish, not just Directv, the company you don't like for some reason....

This is a bit old, but seeing how the trend is moving towards more and more cable, I am sure its close enough for even you to see that network primetime is closer to 50% of where viewers eyes are than on cable channels.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/04/12/where-did-the-primetime-broadcast-tv-audience-go/47976/

Cable may have very few programs that get the same ratings as a primetime network channel program, but if you do the math..

sorta like..

4 networks get say 40 million viewers, each around 10 million...

80 networks get another 40 million, average of around what, 500K...

Still half the viewers are not on the networks...


----------



## inkahauts

Hoosier205 said:


> False. No provider has it all. There are no HD channels that are carried by every provider except DirecTV.
> 
> ...are you really advocating for HD-lite? Seriously? Go for it. Enjoy. If you want to spend that kind of money on equipment/services and then settle for inferior picture quality...good luck. That's why Dish Network exists. To pick over the DirecTV leftovers. Some folks don't value quality and Dish Network is grateful for that.


HD LITE is better than sd, I have to give them that, and so should you. Not everything is strictly black and white in the debate between these two services..


----------



## inkahauts

lparsons21 said:


> Wow! I never thought to use 'keep' to do that, makes perfect sense. Thanks for the tip.


I always set my important shows to keep in the first place. Then all you would need to do is decide which of you is the one who removes it from the keep, and which is the deleter...


----------



## Davenlr

inkahauts said:


> HD LITE is better than sd


You have that one nailed. Even with a $500 video processor, there isnt a whole lot I can do with DirecTv SD to make it even remotely look watchable on a 60" screen.


----------



## lparsons21

Davenlr said:


> You have that one nailed. Even with a $500 video processor, there isnt a whole lot I can do with DirecTv SD to make it even remotely look watchable on a 60" screen.


Well, while I don't like D*'s SD much at all, the secret is to watch SD shows before you watch anything HD! While still pretty bad, it doesn't look quite so bad that way! 

The real irritant with D*'s sorry SD is that it varies quite a bit by channel. Some are not horrible, unfortunately most of them that I watch seem to be.


----------



## lparsons21

inkahauts said:


> The key is always what you watch. There is ZERO channels dish has that DIrectv doesn't that I watch right now.


Yep, it is all in what you want to watch.

There are zero channels D* has that E* doesn't, and one channel that E* has that D* doesn't, and that one channel is BBCA.

In premiums, I generally keep HBO and Showtime for the boxing and original programming, and because of that D* has Showtime Extreme in HD and E* doesn't yet.


----------



## Davenlr

I watch H2, DIY, and HLN a lot. D* has none of those in HD, Dish does, but Dish wanted WAY to much money per month to get them (as a second service to D*), so I went with Xfinity. Good thing about that, if D* does decide to ever carry them, Im not under contract with Xfinity. Not only did Xfinity give me a year of their top HD package for $39 a month, they arent charging me a HD fee, and actually are giving me a $2.50/mo credit for using my own Tivo. Oh, and they dropped my internet fee $10 a month for having "double play"....so that is a net cost per month of $27.45 for ALL the HD channels D* is missing.

Its coming down to the need for two services to get all the channels, if you are a sports fan AND a basics fan. While I dont sub to D* sports packages anymore due to their cost and (not D*'s fault) blackouts (MLB), between the two services, I get the channels I want, and am still around my $150/mo TV/Internet/Phone budget.


----------



## Jodean

veryoldschool said:


> Jodean,
> I'm not sure the point of your pictures.
> A radar picture would make much more sense, and during the 771 error message too.


for some reason it doesnt show up, the first pic is actually a video

If i had my phone set to take full quality video i also had a video of the normal rain, not very heavy that knocked out directv, while dish was still running. I forgot to take it off messaging video quality.

And for location in sky, HBO is on 110 on dish which is pretty close to 103 for directv......

Anyhow in my area, during June and July we get these rains that knock out directv about 20 times a month, most of the time its over an hour of searching for signal. Dish may go out about 2 times a month.

So again i guess im the only one that loses directv's signal in the rain, and only person living in my area as well......


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> Anyhow in my area, during June and July we get these rains that knock out directv about 20 times a month, most of the time its over an hour of searching for signal. Dish may go out about 2 times a month.
> 
> So again i guess im the only one that loses directv's signal in the rain, and only person living in my area as well......


I'm guessing more you need to grasp what causes rain fade better.
Your earlier post suggested a slight drizzle would knock out your signal.
The slant angle and density/water content, have everything to do with it.
In the summer your storms may be fairly warm, rise quite high, and have a lot of moisture.
Shouldn't be that different than those in Florida.


----------



## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> Shouldn't be that different than those in Florida.


IIRC DIRECTV's CONUS beam tends to have a bit more power going to Florida to help overcome that situation.


----------



## P Smith

RAD said:


> IIRC DIRECTV's CONUS beam tends to have a bit more power going to Florida to help overcome that situation.


I don't think so - TWTA is standard equipment across all SB transponders; max what they could do - double it, what is done for SB vs CONUS.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> IIRC DIRECTV's CONUS beam tends to have a bit more power going to Florida to help overcome that situation.





P Smith said:


> I don't think so - TWTA is standard equipment across all SB transponders; max what they could do - double it, what is done for SB vs CONUS.


Thanks to others work on the forum here's 103:










So while there is a difference between SD & FL, they both look to have higher levels than "out here".


----------



## P Smith

veryoldschool said:


> Thanks to others work on the forum here's 103:
> 
> So while there is a difference between SD & FL, they both look to have higher levels than "out here".


Because of the antenna's orientation and its curves. Plus, it's CONUS transponder, not a spot-beam type.


----------



## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> Because of the antenna's orientation and its curves. Plus, it's CONUS transponder, not a spot-beam type.


I think it's safe to say the dishes are tweaked for an ERP.


----------



## P Smith

Sure.
Initially, I thought about SB for LiLs ...


----------



## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> Sure.
> Initially, I thought about SB for LiLs ...


The old SD spots were tweaked too.


----------



## Jodean

veryoldschool said:


> I'm guessing more you need to grasp what causes rain fade better.
> Your earlier post suggested a slight drizzle would knock out your signal.
> The slant angle and density/water content, have everything to do with it.
> In the summer your storms may be fairly warm, rise quite high, and have a lot of moisture.
> Shouldn't be that different than those in Florida.


huh? i never said directv goes out in a slight drizzle.....

Ya i know whats causing rain fade.....and i know i can watch Dish when Directv has rain fade issue.

Directv goes out in every rain we have here in June and July, roughly 20 times a month. I guess i dont know what else to call that except for normal rain....for here anyway.....


----------



## Davenlr

Jodean said:


> Directv goes out in every rain we have here in June and July, roughly 20 times a month.


It should go out when you have a severe thunderstorm or front moving through. It should not be going out 20 times a month. You have some other issue. Even on my slimline, KA does not go out unless there is red on the radar directly between me and the satellite, and then only for no more than 10 minutes as the supercell moves by. If yours is different than that scenario then you need to check and make sure your dish isnt warped, and the LNB is functioning correctly.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> It should go out when you have a severe thunderstorm or front moving through. It should not be going out 20 times a month. You have some other issue. Even on my slimline, KA does not go out unless there is red on the radar directly between me and the satellite, and then only for no more than 10 minutes as the supercell moves by. If yours is different than that scenario then you need to check and make sure your dish isnt warped, and the LNB is functioning correctly.


Doesn't seem like Jodean is listening.
"it rains and DirecTV sucks, while Dish doesn't".
It is getting tired of beating my head here.


----------



## sigma1914

Maybe he had a crappy installer who half a$$ed everything... Oh wait.


----------



## carl6

sigma1914 said:


> Maybe he had a crappy installer who half a$$ed everything... Oh wait.


Exactly.


----------



## jacmyoung

I'd like to have BBCA and DIY in HD, and the built in Sling capability. But since we need more than four HDDVRs, the current Hopper/Joe offer still does not cut it. Had Dish offered 2 Hoppers/4 Joes for free, I would have switched.

But I share the OP's view, Dish has come much closer to DirecTV than before, for those who do not have to have the exclusive sports packages.


----------



## Jodean

sigma1914 said:


> Maybe he had a crappy installer who half a$$ed everything... Oh wait.


I guess ALL directv installers half ass all installs here. We can only get 95 accross the board around here, dish must be off i guess.....damn them for leaving a dish at only 95 signal strengths.....

Nothing wrong here, just the normal rains we get here, 20 times a month. Most of time doesnt even require red to take out directv.

First thing to go is local channels that have the storm warnings on them and updates on tornado warnings. I guess thats maybe why people see more concern here. If you arnt worried about tornadoes maybe you just dont see it as a problem.


----------



## Riverpilot

I'll presume SD is South Dakota? I'd sure like to know what section of the state you're in. I have friends who live in the state who have zero problems with directv. I would also like to know how much rain you get a month? I can find zero data anywhere that states south dakota receives more than 10 days of rain per month. 

As others suggested. You have something incorrectly setup on your directv.


----------



## Darcaine

I like Directv for the most part, they have my local channels in HD, all but two cable channels I want in HD, and are comparable to all other pay tv providers in price.

But as a fan of D* the last thing I want to see is for Dish Network to do anything but succeed. A successful Dish makes for a hungrier Directv. 

Slooow as molasses DVRs (bugs and hardware), and missing basic HD channels, while Directv focuses on building their own HBO GO like Ondemand service (sigh - I really need 2 versions of HBO Go apparently) IMO wouldn't be happening if Dish was indeed in a better position to really give Directv a run for their money. 

So no, I have no intentions of switching to Dish...ever. I do hope D* fixes their glaring issues with their DVRs (puck), and add BBCA and H2 in HD soon. But talk of Google getting into the Pay TV business is intriguing, the more competition D* has, the better IMO. 

I would perhaps even consider switching to a Google based TV service. A better user interface and DVR services in the cloud sound a lot more intriguing than HR34s, RVU enabled TVs and Hoppers/joeys. But that's probably a good 5 years away or more.


----------



## QuickDrop

I switched to DirecTV from Comcast after D10 successfully launched and was happy. Since then, D* launched two more satellites and changed ownership. During that time, the difference between what was suggested they would deliver and what they did deliver changed drastically. DirecTV became more like the Comcast I left. When I switched, DirecTV mostly successfully delivered on what their television ads promised the general public. With the addition of two different satellites, the corresponding national ads didn't deliver except if you want to play word games. Dish Network isn't better than DirecTV; but neither is DirecTV better than Dish. Unless you have very specific needs, I don't see a reason for anybody to move from their current provider to a different one.



Satelliteracer said:


> I would add things like YES Network, etc. They are considered "basics" in some DMAs because they are part of the base package. I know it's a hybrid, but this is another significant difference that D* carries many RSNs full time in HD which utilizes capacity. Other providers do not. D* seems to be penalized by some here for carrying those channels which use every bit the capacity another channel does (sometimes more because RSNs are sports based and use more capacity for fast moving imagery).


This post is the perfect example of what is currently wrong with DirecTV. The Yes Network would be a good example of how Dish Network doesn't carry certain local channels (in this case for the NYC DMA.) It would also be a good example for how you can buy better sports packages on DirecTV. Yet this poster can't be happy with offering an additional channel for a local market or giving better programming if a person subscribes for more money to a sports package. He must believe that a Regional Sports Network is the same as a basic cable channel. This is the best example possible that basic cable channels that DirecTV doesn't carry matter. Someone who works for them is purposely trying to artificially up the number of basic HD channels DirecTV carries so the number will more closely compete with Dish Network.

I currently live in a suburb of Pittsburgh and I don't get Pittsburgh CW in HD. In my area, subscribers of Comcast, Dish Network, and Fios do. I would never have thought to have included it in a list of national basic channels that someone, in say, Nevada wouldn't get.

That someone felt the need to misrepresent a fact suggests to me that he considers the difference between DirecTV's basic HD count and Dish Network important enough to argue/misrepresent/lie about. I suppose Watergate taught the poster nothing. The cover up is worse than the facts.


----------



## inkahauts

QuickDrop said:


> I switched to DirecTV from Comcast after D10 successfully launched and was happy. Since then, D* launched two more satellites and changed ownership. During that time, the difference between what was suggested they would deliver and what they did deliver changed drastically. DirecTV became more like the Comcast I left. When I switched, DirecTV mostly successfully delivered on what their television ads promised the general public. With the addition of two different satellites, the corresponding national ads didn't deliver except if you want to play word games. Dish Network isn't better than DirecTV; but neither is DirecTV better than Dish. Unless you have very specific needs, I don't see a reason for anybody to move from their current provider to a different one.
> 
> This post is the perfect example of what is currently wrong with DirecTV. The Yes Network would be a good example of how Dish Network doesn't carry certain local channels (in this case for the NYC DMA.) It would also be a good example for how you can buy better sports packages on DirecTV. Yet this poster can't be happy with offering an additional channel for a local market or giving better programming if a person subscribes for more money to a sports package. He must believe that a Regional Sports Network is the same as a basic cable channel. This is the best example possible that basic cable channels that DirecTV doesn't carry matter. Someone who works for them is purposely trying to artificially up the number of basic HD channels DirecTV carries so the number will more closely compete with Dish Network.
> 
> I currently live in a suburb of Pittsburgh and I don't get Pittsburgh CW in HD. In my area, subscribers of Comcast, Dish Network, and Fios do. I would never have thought to have included it in a list of national basic channels that someone, in say, Nevada wouldn't get.
> 
> That someone felt the need to misrepresent a fact suggests to me that he considers the difference between DirecTV's basic HD count and Dish Network important enough to argue/misrepresent/lie about. I suppose Watergate taught the poster nothing. The cover up is worse than the facts.


I just disagree. Having your local channels is every bit as important as having your national ones, often even more so important. He was simply saying that Directv in a lot of markets offers more locals, rsn or otherwise, than Dish does, while sure, dish may carry a few more in some markets than DIrectv. So depending on your market, the difference between the two can be even less or more in favor of one or the other.

He did not seem at all to be trying to pass off that offering YES is the same as offering say abc family. He is saying that market by market, there are differences as well, that as a whole, have an effect on that list. In NY, DIrectv has more channels that can matter than just that list that was posted. The same thing can be said in many markets about both providers. You stated one already, that cw is not in hd in your market. That gives DIsh an edge for you (if you find that channel important). But the local differences are not equally balanced across the country, they will likely favor Directv overall. So that concept shows that the difference in the number of HD channels that a subscriber can get in their market is probably a lot closer in terms of total numbers, when locals for each market are included in the tallies.


----------



## Jodean

Riverpilot said:


> I'll presume SD is South Dakota? I'd sure like to know what section of the state you're in. I have friends who live in the state who have zero problems with directv. I would also like to know how much rain you get a month? I can find zero data anywhere that states south dakota receives more than 10 days of rain per month.
> 
> As others suggested. You have something incorrectly setup on your directv.


Nothing wrong on any directv setups, its not just mine. Sometimes its lost 3 times in one day throughout the day which may be what you call one storm. But searching for 3 different times for an hour to me is out 3 times.

Even our showroom at the mall has searching for signal going on during the summer, kinda hard to sell something when that message is on the tv screen......

A normal summer for us latley I remember 3 5" rains in one month and many storms in between those. I lost a neighbors house due to lightning and all of my electronics a years ago. I rebuilt an 8 plex that got hit by lightning 2 years ago a block and a half from my house, a building i had originally built 6 years ago.

3 Years ago we had major flooding going on, flood rest companies made big bucks. I have old videos if you really want to see them.

an entire developement here had water 6" up on the garage doors, and everything here has basements so they had roughly 9' of water in their homes.

So...............anyway. We lose signal roughly 20 times a month during our rainy months (mostly June and July)

Not sure what this summer has in store, we only got snow twice here this winter, the winter before we had a 25" snowfall on christmas along with many other 6" snows all winter.


----------



## crawdad62

Jodean what's your point here? Your rain fade is obviously not normal. It might be normal for people you know or are acquainted with in South Dakota but for the rest of the country it certainly isn't. No one else would put up with losing their signal "20 times a month." It's pretty obvious that D* doesn't fit your needs. Time to move on.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

crawdad62 said:


> Jodean what's your point here? Your rain fade is obviously not normal. It might be normal for people you know or are acquainted with in South Dakota but for the rest of the country it certainly isn't. No one else would put up with losing their signal "20 times a month." It's pretty obvious that D* doesn't fit your needs. Time to move on.


Agreed. Twenty times a month is way, way too much. If I lose signal 4 times in a year I think it's a lot. There's definitely something wrong with a setup that loses signal that often.

Mike


----------



## P Smith

Jodean said:


> Nothing wrong on any directv setups, its not just mine. Sometimes its lost 3 times in one day throughout the day which may be what you call one storm. But searching for 3 different times for an hour to me is out 3 times.
> 
> Even our showroom at the mall has searching for signal going on during the summer, kinda hard to sell something when that message is on the tv screen......
> 
> A normal summer for us latley I remember 3 5" rains in one month and many storms in between those. I lost a neighbors house due to lightning and all of my electronics a years ago. I rebuilt an 8 plex that got hit by lightning 2 years ago a block and a half from my house, a building i had originally built 6 years ago.
> 
> 3 Years ago we had major flooding going on, flood rest companies made big bucks. I have old videos if you really want to see them.
> 
> an entire developement here had water 6" up on the garage doors, and everything here has basements so they had roughly 9' of water in their homes.
> 
> So...............anyway. We lose signal roughly 20 times a month during our rainy months (mostly June and July)
> 
> Not sure what this summer has in store, we only got snow twice here this winter, the winter before we had a 25" snowfall on christmas along with many other 6" snows all winter.


I would try 1m dish or if you want it permanent - get AK/HI 1.2m DTV setup.


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> Nothing wrong on any directv setups, its not just mine. Sometimes its lost 3 times in one day throughout the day which may be what you call one storm. But searching for 3 different times for an hour to me is out 3 times.


So by this it would be better if it went out and stayed out until the one storm passed, as this would be only one outage?
It does seem strange that you've had more problems with DirecTV than almost any other poster on the forum.
There is so little that actually works correctly according to your posts.
I have no idea of the cause, but from the years on this forum, what you and your customers are experiencing just isn't what everyone else is.


----------



## Hoffer

I live in Minnesota, which borders South Dakota. Actually grew up 10 minutes from SD. 

Anyway, I only experience rain fade during heavy thunderstorms. It probably affects my television viewing 2-3 times a year.


----------



## fleckrj

RACJ2 said:


> I guess our household falls close to that 90% network programming. I checked the series recordings we set up on the recently installed HR34 and only 4 out of 29 were non-network or 14%. Since 3 are channels recording sports on non-network channels in 3 hr blocks, multiple nights per week, the actual % of hours of non-network recording is higher then 14% .


My situation is exactly the opposite. I had 31 items in my series list, and only five- two on CBS, one on ABC, and two on Fox - were network programming. 84% of what I record is NOT network programming.


----------



## fleckrj

Jodean said:


> Nothing wrong on any directv setups, its not just mine. Sometimes its lost 3 times in one day throughout the day which may be what you call one storm. But searching for 3 different times for an hour to me is out 3 times.
> 
> Even our showroom at the mall has searching for signal going on during the summer, kinda hard to sell something when that message is on the tv screen......
> 
> A normal summer for us latley I remember 3 5" rains in one month and many storms in between those. I lost a neighbors house due to lightning and all of my electronics a years ago. I rebuilt an 8 plex that got hit by lightning 2 years ago a block and a half from my house, a building i had originally built 6 years ago.
> 
> 3 Years ago we had major flooding going on, flood rest companies made big bucks. I have old videos if you really want to see them.
> 
> an entire developement here had water 6" up on the garage doors, and everything here has basements so they had roughly 9' of water in their homes.
> 
> So...............anyway. We lose signal roughly 20 times a month during our rainy months (mostly June and July)
> 
> Not sure what this summer has in store, we only got snow twice here this winter, the winter before we had a 25" snowfall on christmas along with many other 6" snows all winter.


We have had two supercells this year, which is unusual for us, but I only lost DirecTV for about 15 minutes as the storms approached. We average 43.3 inches of rain per year, most of which comes as thunderstorms in the spring and summer or tropical storms in the late summer and fall, yet I lose my DirecTV signal at most four or five times per year. By comparison, Souix Falls, SD averages 24.7 inches of rain per year.

It is true that when I do lose the signal, I will lose HD a few minutes before I lose SD, and I will regain SD a few minutes before I regain HD, but it is rare that I lose either. When I had Time Warner Cable, the outages were more frequent and of far longer duration than anything I have experienced on DirecTV since 1998.

There are many times when I have lost electricity because of thunderstorms. DirecTV could have gone out during the time that the electricity was out, but DirecTV was working when the power went out and it was working when the power came back on. If the power is out for less than 8 hours (and it is rarely out for more than 30 minutes), I do not bother to turn on the generator. There have been times during long power outages that I did turn on my generator to discover that DirecTV was working and Time Warner Cable at my neighbor's house was not.

The only prolonged outage I have had with DirecTV was during and following an ice storm when the ice caused a loblolly pine to bend into the LOS path of my dish. I did have to wait nearly two days that time for the ice to melt and the tree to snap back out of the LOS. That would have been a problem regardless of whether I had DirecTV or Dish.


----------



## Laxguy

Mike Bertelson said:


> Agreed. Twenty times a month is way, way too much. If I lose signal 4 times in a year I think it's a lot. There's definitely something wrong with a setup that loses signal that often.
> 
> Mike


+1

Perhaps there's some localized atmospheric condition in South Dakota? Sun spots affecting only that region? Area 51 ops?


----------



## inkahauts

"Laxguy" said:


> +1
> 
> Perhaps there's some localized atmospheric condition in South Dakota? Sun spots affecting only that region? Area 51 ops?


!rolling

I live southern California, and since it doesn't rain here to terribly much too often, I have been lax and not fixed the alignment on my dish. I have some signals in the high 60s on 99. We just had a big downpour rainstorm move through and it just poured for a few minutes. Didn't even see a blip on my signal. Something is wrong with his setup. Maybe his cables aren't properly built, or he has a weird grounding issue, but that's just not normal. It takes a massive downpour to loose signal for me.


----------



## Jodean

There is nothing wrong with the systems. AND again most people cant read....ITS not my system its all directv systems that are out when raining.

LOL at the people that think they lose signal 2-3 times a year. Its been out 2-3 times THIS year already and it hasnt even rained more than a couple times.

All the sports bar around here have Directv, they all go out, ive been there, ive been at home, ive been at customers homes.....ITS OUT!!!!!!!! SRS

You people must not even watch tv if you only saw SRS 2 times in a year.......ya maybe in one week......

Meanwhile im sitting there in a Directv shirt.....hey Joe fix this crap, its always SRS. My reply is "No thanks, i didnt work on any of these jobs, call your installer" Next day i checked their dish signal......95 accross the board. Dish is aimed perfectly.

You maybe are just at work or sleeping, but im in view of directv about 12 hours a day. I dont need anyone telling me what i see or how many phone calls i get about "hey i thought this only went out during heavy rain?" questions. Aparently no one knows what rain is, come live here in July when the foundation shakes due to overbearing thunder.

Ive lived here for 20 years, had satellite for 15. Im not complaining just stating what happens. I expect to lose signal. 

All satellite goes out during rain here, dont matter what system you have. Dish usually holds out till the tornado warnings though, directv is way earlier.

It RAINS here, not sure what you call rain where you are.


----------



## Satelliteracer

RAD said:


> Don't forget also DIRECTV also carries most alternate RSN channels in HD plus provides special events channels in HD like the Masters, US Open plus NASCAR HotPass on Sunday's.
> 
> That said, I'd also like to see more national basic HD channels added and hope SR's comments about more coming happens sooner then later.


Well, I have two fans for that idea. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> LOL at the people that think they lose signal 2-3 times a year. Its been out 2-3 times THIS year already and it hasnt even rained more than a couple times.


 "yeah right". Snow buildup on the dish was my biggest issue. Hail was next, and rain "almost never", though a week or so back, I has some loss with rain.



> Next day i checked their dish signal......95 accross the board. Dish is aimed perfectly.


If you're using that scale to measure, then you have no clue what the power level is. The higher the RF power level, the less rainfade.

Testing done today shows a 6% drop between 78 dBµV and 38 dBµV, or 40 dB of loss to simulate rainfade.


----------



## sigma1914

Where are you in South Dakota?

Here in Dallas we get more rainfall than Sioux Falls.


----------



## Jodean

sigma1914 said:


> Where are you in South Dakota?
> 
> Here in Dallas we get more rainfall than Sioux Falls.


Rainfall doesnt mean everything. It depends on what the cloud formation are and other factors that cut the signal. Rainfall amount per year is a bad example.

Does yours go out during a tornado?? Ya, lost signal pry about 6 times last year just do to that....


----------



## sigma1914

You had 6 tornadoes at your house? Ok, keep up the exaggerating.


----------



## rrdirectsr

I actually time out the duration and keep a mental record of sfss that I see on my system. I average 7 hours of tv a day (I'm a junky). The most I've lost DTV was for 13 minutes (I remember because of unlucky 13) and that was last spring during an abnormally large thunderstorm. Other than that I count 11 times and all less than 2 minutes during heavy rain. 

Even last week we had a horrible downpour and I never lost any of the HD channels I was watching. I even checked my sig meters and they went down from the normally 92 on 103cb to 63 with no pix or freeze frames. 

I've also had Dish but only SD and had little to no problems with them as well.

I'm sure there are other factors in play besides raw signal readings like VOS points out and maybe that's the problem. I think the point is that if a system is properly installed then there should be very few instances of signal loss even in areas that get a lot of weather events.

edit = 11 times in 2011 besides the 13 minute 1 so a total of 12 times last year. Not bad for over 2000 hours of tv viewing.


----------



## rrdirectsr

sigma1914 said:


> You had 6 tornadoes at your house? Ok, keep up the exaggerating.


I was thinking the same thing. I was also thinking if you have a tornado the last thing you worry about is if you can watch Frozen Planet or Pawn Stars. :lol:


----------



## inkahauts

"Jodean" said:


> Rainfall doesnt mean everything. It depends on what the cloud formation are and other factors that cut the signal. Rainfall amount per year is a bad example.
> 
> Does yours go out during a tornado?? Ya, lost signal pry about 6 times last year just do to that....


Wait, your town has been hit by six tornados in the last year? Where the heck do you live, and at what point do you realize the tornados have it in for you!


----------



## ndole

Final Destination!!!! :lol:


----------



## sigma1914

inkahauts said:


> Wait, your town has been hit by six tornados in the last year? Where the heck do you live, and at what point do you realize the tornados have it in for you!


Maybe he's in this video? :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

Odd how Jodean has gone on to post about rain, tornadoes, and...
but failed to reply to readings he can get from his meter for RF power on his installs, that might point to problems for rainfade.


----------



## Laxguy

sigma1914 said:


> Maybe he's in this video? :lol:


Wow! That's a handful. I'd be thinking cellar if there was but one of those dudes inside a mile....

Funny the author titles it using the word "City"!


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Jodean said:


> Rainfall doesnt mean everything. It depends on what the cloud formation are and other factors that cut the signal. Rainfall amount per year is a bad example.
> 
> Does yours go out during a tornado?? Ya, lost signal pry about 6 times last year just do to that....


If I understand you correctly, you're saying there is something different about South Dakota from all the surrounding states that causes a very high occurrence of loss of signal?

I find the phenomenon fascinating, hopefully I can learn something. What are the conditions in SD that create this abnormally high rate of signal loss?

Mike


----------



## ndole

Mike Bertelson said:


> If I understand you correctly, you're saying there is something different about South Dakota from all the surrounding states that causes a very high occurrence of loss of signal?
> 
> I find the phenomenon fascinating, hopefully I can learn something. *What are the conditions in SD that create this abnormally high rate of signal loss?*
> 
> Mike


!rolling


----------



## Jodean

sigma1914 said:


> You had 6 tornadoes at your house? Ok, keep up the exaggerating.


yes, confirmed tornadoes within 20 miles of me. Yes


----------



## Jodean

veryoldschool said:


> Odd how Jodean has gone on to post about rain, tornadoes, and...
> but failed to reply to readings he can get from his meter for RF power on his installs, that might point to problems for rainfade.


they are not my installs, why would i go around checking corporates work??


----------



## Jodean

Mike Bertelson said:


> If I understand you correctly, you're saying there is something different about South Dakota from all the surrounding states that causes a very high occurrence of loss of signal?
> 
> I find the phenomenon fascinating, hopefully I can learn something. What are the conditions in SD that create this abnormally high rate of signal loss?
> 
> Mike


Last year we had some microbursts, gusts of say 90 to 115mph, while not tornados, they caused major damage. I got sent out to 6 homes that lost the dish completely, dish got hit by fallen tree branches, or knocked out of aim.

Just a little rain we had once again. That was just accross the border in Holland MN

One guy lost every window on the N side of house, his grain bins, sheds, and machinery. All from just a rain storm......


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Jodean said:


> Last year we had some microbursts, gusts of say 90 to 115mph, while not tornados, they caused major damage. I got sent out to 6 homes that lost the dish completely, dish got hit by fallen tree branches, or knocked out of aim.
> 
> Just a little rain we had once again. That was just accross the border in Holland MN
> 
> One guy lost every window on the N side of house, his grain bins, sheds, and machinery. All from just a rain storm......


So you're saying these are different weather conditions then the surrounding States?

Mike


----------



## sigma1914

Jodean said:


> Does yours go out during a tornado?? Ya, lost signal pry about 6 times last year just do to that....





sigma1914 said:


> You had 6 tornadoes at your house? Ok, keep up the exaggerating.





Jodean said:


> yes, confirmed tornadoes within 20 miles of me. Yes


Tornadoes 20 miles away caused loss of signal?


----------



## raott

"sigma1914" said:


> Tornadoes 20 miles away caused loss of signal?


The frontal systems associated with tornados 20 miles away can easily cause signal loss.


----------



## RAD

How about taking the Jodean rain outage to a new thread?


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> they are not my installs, why would i go around checking corporates work??


I thought your system had these problems too. [it's getting harder to follow which ***** you're on]


----------



## inkahauts

"veryoldschool" said:


> I thought your system had these problems too. [it's getting harder to follow which ***** you're on]


!rolling


----------



## beeper3000

"Jodean" said:


> yes, confirmed tornadoes within 20 miles of me. Yes


Hey, I live right outside of sioux falls in a town called Brandon. The only time I have ever lost signal is in a complete downpour, and even if that happens, the signal comes back usually within a minute. I also have several friends in town that have direct and have not really had a problem. I think you need to check your setup.


----------



## Satelliteracer

Jodean, sounds like you have an alignment issue. I used to live in Wisconsin with DIRECTV and we had some humdinger storms at times with no issues. There have been testimonials from customers during Hurricane Katrina in which they didn't lose service. On the flip side, if your dish is out of alignment sometimes a minor cell can cause a short disruption. I would call Directv, tell them about your issue, give them the signal strength numbers and have them come out and realign the dish. It could have been whacked out of alignment or something else.


----------



## fleckrj

Satelliteracer said:


> There have been testimonials from customers during Hurricane Katrina in which they didn't lose service.


I, too, have been through several hurricanes (most of them were downgraded to tropical storms by the time they got this far inland, but that just means the sustained wind had dropped below 74 mph - there was still 8 to 10 inches of rain per hour) without loss of DirecTV signal. I always assumed that is because hurricanes come from the southeast and my satellite LOS is to the southwest.

Perhaps Jodean's problem is that the dishes in SD are not mounted securely, and high winds are causing them to move. When the wind stops, the signal returns. That woudl account for loss of signal during thunderstorms or tornadoes, but normal signal levels at other times. My dish does not budge in 75 mph winds, but it is mounted to a roof that is rated to withstand sustained winds of 150 mph.

A direct hit by a tornado would destroy everything, so yes, if the storm takes off the roof, the dish will be destroyed, and I will loose DirecTV, but I have had several near misses (including one that snapped off two 24" diameter white oaks that were within 20 feet of my house about six feet above the ground, crossed the street, and took off the front of my neighbor's house) without losing DirecTV. I do watch DirecTV during tornado and tropical storm warnings, at least until we lose electricity, because I have a 55" plasma TV in the basement, and that is where we go during storms.


----------



## P Smith

Perhaps his roof spot with the dish installed warping during storm ? Water and roof material combination ?


----------



## veryoldschool

Jodean said:


> Nothing wrong on any directv setups, its not just mine. Sometimes its lost 3 times in one day throughout the day which may be what you call one storm. But searching for 3 different times for an hour to me is out 3 times.
> 
> *Even our showroom at the mall has searching for signal going on during the summer,* kinda hard to sell something when that message is on the tv screen......


Isn't this where you posted there is 400' of coax between the dish and the showroom?


----------



## P Smith

But he gave us a picture with 90+ reading. Hmm...


----------



## veryoldschool

P Smith said:


> But he gave us a picture with 90+ reading. Hmm...


Which only needs about a 8-10 dB CNR


----------



## grcooperjr

veryoldschool said:


> Guess the next question would be:
> Since DirecTV has only one DVR fee/account, and does have another for each receiver, How does Dish handle these?
> If I have one DVR, then the next receiver doesn't cost me anymore if it's a DVR.


I just left Dish and switched back to DTV. with em from early 07 to Jan of this year. On the Reciver fees... I had at the time of leaving, 4 vip722's and 2 211. The 722's cost me 17.00 a month each and 7.00 for one of the 211's the other was included in the programing cost. The EHD cost 30.00 to start the service and was free from that point on. The bad part of the service was on avg. the 722's failed 2 to 3 times a year requiring replacement. Most of the failures were software downloads that failed and could not recover from and a few hd failures. And the last I was spending more on reciver fees than on programing.

Dish's focus is on the low end 1 reciver account, boasting on how much cheaper they are than anyone else and really stick it to the folks that have a high reciver load.. Also did I mention, they will only provide one DVR. The rest you have to buy youself if you want more than one.

They were not always this way on the reciver fees. This just started in 2009 or so. It will be interesting to see where the fees go with the new Hopper / Joey system.

Just my 2 cents worth


----------



## Jodean

veryoldschool said:


> Isn't this where you posted there is 400' of coax between the dish and the showroom?


Different show room


----------



## mdavej

Excellent point, grcooper. Dish's extra receiver fees have been extremely high. So folks with lots of TVs were much better off with DirecTV. But the new Hopper/Joey system is much more cost effective than their old DVRs, at only $7 for each DVR or client plus one $4 Whole-Home fee, making them about the same as DirecTV now. So people with several tv's who upgrade should see their bills go down, while those with only 2 TV's will go up. Both scenarios essentially match DirecTV's pricing now. Dish still can't support as many TV's as DirecTV. I think the Hopper/Joey system maxes out at 8, possibly 12.


----------



## domingos35

grcooperjr said:


> I just left Dish and switched back to DTV. with em from early 07 to Jan of this year. On the Reciver fees... I had at the time of leaving, 4 vip722's and 2 211 at the end Had 7 722 to begin with but downsized when they up'd the fees in 2010. Anyway, The 722's cost me 17.00 a month each and 7.00 for one of the 211's the other was included in the programing cost. The EHD cost 30.00 to start the service and was free from that point on. The bad part of the service was on avg. the 722's failed 2 to 3 times a year requiring replacement. Most of the failures were software downloads that failed and could not recover from and a few hd failures. And the last I was spending more on reciver fees than on programing.
> 
> Dish's focus is on the low end 1 reciver account, boasting on how much cheaper they are than anyone else and really stick it to the folks that have a high reciver load.. Also did I mention, they will only provide one DVR. The rest you have to buy youself if you want more than one.
> 
> They were not always this way on the reciver fees. This just started in 2009 or so. It will be interesting to see where the fees go with the new Hopper / Joey system.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth


fees went down


----------



## sigma1914

mdavej said:


> Excellent point, grcooper. Dish's extra receiver fees have been extremely high. So folks with lots of TVs were much better off with DirecTV. But the new Hopper/Joey system is much more cost effective than their old DVRs, at only $7 for each DVR or client plus one $4 Whole-Home fee, making them about the same as DirecTV now. So people with several tv's who upgrade should see their bills go down, while those with only 2 TV's will go up. Both scenarios essentially match DirecTV's pricing now. Dish still can't support as many TV's as DirecTV. I think the Hopper/Joey system maxes out at 8, possibly 12.


It's not fair to compare a Joey to a H2x because the Joey needs a tuner off a Hopper if one's available. A H2x has it's own tuner and can view shows off any HR. Essentially, Dish's H & J system has a tuner limit like Uverse.

Again, I like the Hopper and am considering a 2 H setup for the Fall.


----------



## grcooperjr

domingos35 said:


> fees went down


Must of just happened then. I just switched begining febuary and my ending bill had 75.00 in reciver fees on it...

Anyway, Comparing to what I'm seeing with my neighbors Hopper / Joey system. My current Hr34 / h25 is working better. at a lot less cost plus I get all of the TV's back on their own tuners again and still have 5 tuners to record off of.

Ya know the old saying... If the wife's happy.... Everybody is happy....


----------



## mdavej

sigma1914 said:


> It's not fair to compare a Joey to a H2x because the Joey needs a tuner off a Hopper if one's available. A H2x has it's own tuner and can view shows off any HR. Essentially, Dish's H & J system has a tuner limit like Uverse.
> 
> Again, I like the Hopper and am considering a 2 H setup for the Fall.


Correct. It's not apples to apples. When D* releases their RVU boxes, then it will be a more direct comparison. Dish is still over-priced considering the more limited capabilities of the client boxes (no tuners of their own). Initial equipment cost offset that somewhat since all Joey's are essentially free.


----------



## SteveHas

not me


----------



## QuickDrop

inkahauts said:


> I just disagree. Having your local channels is every bit as important as having your national ones, often even more so important. He was simply saying that Directv in a lot of markets offers more locals, rsn or otherwise, than Dish does, while sure, dish may carry a few more in some markets than DIrectv. So depending on your market, the difference between the two can be even less or more in favor of one or the other.
> 
> He did not seem at all to be trying to pass off that offering YES is the same as offering say abc family. He is saying that market by market, there are differences as well, that as a whole, have an effect on that list. In NY, DIrectv has more channels that can matter than just that list that was posted. The same thing can be said in many markets about both providers. You stated one already, that cw is not in hd in your market. That gives DIsh an edge for you (if you find that channel important). But the local differences are not equally balanced across the country, they will likely favor Directv overall. So that concept shows that the difference in the number of HD channels that a subscriber can get in their market is probably a lot closer in terms of total numbers, when locals for each market are included in the tallies.


The poster quoted a post that only listed HD basic channels on both systems and and wrote he would add channels like YES. He later admitted they were "hybrid" channels, but all that was part of my point.

I gave two reasons why carrying YES was an advantage for DirecTV over Dish Network. It's better for people living in the local NYC market and for subscribers to Extra Innings. I disagreed with his inclusion of it as basic channel from his own post where he was only responding to someone who listed the different basic channels that D* and E* carries.

Extrapolating his post (my own doing now), I do, as I said, believe this is what has become a problem with DirecTV over the past four years as it relates to, at least, HD. There are numerous legitimate reasons why many would choose them over every other television service. Yet they feel the need to convince people they are the best in everything, which has lead some posters to feel they were lied to in the promotion for the last 2 satellite launches and much of the hostility directed at DirecTV.

I believe the poster I originally disagreed with *sincerely* believed what he wrote and felt it necessary to post that channels like YES should be included in the list he quoted, but that's part of the problem.


----------



## Worn

I'm considering switching to Dish for the discounted price and bundle savings with my phone/Internet provider. I currently have 2 HR24's and have been offered a third for free, or to pay $150 for the HMC, also Directv has offered a $10 discount for two years. I like Directv, but don't want to pay for the NFL Sunday ticket, just the red zone channel, which I can get wish Dish. Also, I would save a substantial amount with Dish's first year pricing and my bundle savings. 
Has anyone else been in this situation, and is there a way I can get an even better deal from Directv for staying? Also, if I get the HMC, would that give me the ability to record up to 9 shows at once, or is the satellite limited to a certain amount. Thanks for any response.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Worn said:


> I'm considering switching to Dish for the discounted price and bundle savings with my phone/Internet provider. I currently have 2 HR24's and have been offered a third for free, or to pay $150 for the HMC, also Directv has offered a $10 discount for two years. I like Directv, but don't want to pay for the NFL Sunday ticket, just the red zone channel, which I can get wish Dish. Also, I would save a substantial amount with Dish's first year pricing and my bundle savings.
> Has anyone else been in this situation, and is there a way I can get an even better deal from Directv for staying? Also, if I get the HMC, would that give me the ability to record up to 9 shows at once, or is the satellite limited to a certain amount. Thanks for any response.


Welcome to DBSTalk. :welcome_s

The limitation in tuners isn't with the satellite but rather with the multi-switch.

If you get the HR34 you'd need a SWiM16 (Single Wire Multi-Switch). This would allow for the use of up to 16 tuners so yes, you'd actually be able to record up to 9 shows at once.

Mike


----------



## SPACEMAKER

I am a Premier sub who enjoys the special Golf channels during majors and I watch NASCAR Hotpass 36 races per year. i also enjoy DirecTV's superior picture quality. For me, a switch to Dish would be a major step down.


----------



## palmgrower

My father has Dish, I have Directv, I like mine for the sports available (MLB Extra Innings, NFL Sunday Ticket, Sports Package etc), he likes his for the price and doesn't watch sports.
To each his own.


----------



## P Smith

SPACEMAKER said:


> I am a Premier sub who enjoys the special Golf channels during majors and I watch NASCAR Hotpass 36 races per year. i also enjoy DirecTV's *superior picture quality*. For me, a switch to Dish would be a *major step down*.


You should get both simultaneously on same TV [side pictures] to see if your statement is true. Actually the word "superior" doesn't applicable here at all.
So, the second sentence is overstated by fact-less first one.


----------



## Xsabresx

SPACEMAKER said:


> I am a Premier sub who enjoys the special Golf channels during majors and I watch NASCAR Hotpass 36 races per year. i also enjoy DirecTV's superior picture quality. For me, a switch to Dish would be a major step down.


Here the word "major" is a major understatement, and I dont even like golf. I just saw the word "Premier".


----------



## wahooq

Dont wake up in a roadside ditch!


----------



## DeathRowsFinest2g

I just wish we had Telemundo HD, G4TV HD and Howard TV.


----------



## wahooq

+1 DOGTV


----------



## domingos35

SPACEMAKER said:


> I am a Premier sub who enjoys the special Golf channels during majors and I watch NASCAR Hotpass 36 races per year. i also enjoy DirecTV's superior picture quality. For me, a switch to Dish would be a major step down.


u keep telling that to yourself


----------



## Marlin Guy

I am about 6 weeks into my new Dish contract after spending several years with DirecTV.
So far, the Hopper/Joey system has been 99.9% flawless, as compared to my DirecTV setup, which was 60% annoying and maddening.

Let me put it this way. If DirecTV offered free everything for year, if I went back to the HR20-700, I would flatly turn them down. Life's too short to deal with crappy equipment.


----------



## Laxguy

Marlin Guy said:


> I am about 6 weeks into my new Dish contract after spending several years with DirecTV.
> So far, the Hopper/Joey system has been 99.9% flawless, as compared to my DirecTV setup, which was 60% annoying and maddening.
> 
> Let me put it this way. If DirecTV offered free everything for year, if I went back to the HR20-700, I would flatly turn them down. Life's too short to deal with crappy equipment.


How many times are you going to repeat this mantra?

Sorry it didn't work out for you, but my similar unit has been O.K.


----------



## Marlin Guy

Laxguy said:


> How many times are you going to repeat this mantra?


As many times as I see fit.
There's no limit on expressing one's satisfaction with switching providers, just like there's no limit on how many times fanboys can jump me for doing so.


----------



## MysteryMan

Marlin Guy said:


> As many times as I see fit.
> There's no limit on expressing one's satisfaction with switching providers, just like there's no limit on how many times fanboys can jump me for doing so.


Ever think of changing your user name to "Same Old Song"? :sure:


----------



## damondlt

Sorry, but Dish is never going to be better then Directv. 
I've had both, and cable , Cable is better then dish. 

A Provider that gave up on Sports in the Greater NY DMA is never going to be a threat to anyone. Anyone who had dish in the past knows they Drop channels just as fast as they add them. 

The fact that they are at 14 Million customers AGAIN doesn"t show much growth in the past 3 years. Thats with their Blockbuster non sence and poor excuse for a whole home DVR.
Equipment Fees that are through the roof.
I can't even find a setup with Dish that wouldn't cost me $40 in fees per month to suit my needs that Direct tv can provide for Half that.


----------



## Marlin Guy

MysteryMan said:


> Ever think of changing your user name to "Same Old Song"? :sure:


Every time you troll one of my posts an angel gets his wings. :lol:


----------



## SPACEMAKER

"domingos35" said:


> u keep telling that to yourself


Nice try, troll.


----------



## RACJ2

Marlin Guy said:


> As many times as I see fit.
> There's no limit on expressing one's satisfaction with switching providers, just like there's no limit on how many times fanboys can jump me for doing so.


You do realize you are one of them? Just for a different provider? I saw all kinds of issues with the Hopper/Joey, so for many its not 99.9% flawless. And for me, my HMC and HR22 have been 99.9% flawless, despite others having issues. So I guess we are both lucky.


----------



## patmurphey

It's nice to watch a recording and skip all the ads without touching the remote - just implemented on the Hopper for prime time network shows.


----------



## sigma1914

patmurphey said:


> It's nice to watch a recording and skip all the ads without touching the remote - just implemented on the Hopper for prime time network shows.


...if you watch the recording within 24 hours. Big deal.... Pressing a button a few times isn't that big of a deal.


----------



## bidger

"Breaking Bad" Season 5 starts on AMC in July. By all accounts AMC will be gone from the DISH channel lineup by that time. One more reason they can't be my provider for the foreseeable future.


----------



## billsharpe

sigma1914 said:


> ...if you watch the recording within 24 hours. Big deal.... Pressing a button a few times isn't that big of a deal.


Let's see. A one-hour show with four commercial breaks of two minutes each. That's 16 presses to skip or four presses of slip while watching the commercials during fast-forward.

Automatic commercial skip, if it really works, is indeed a big deal.


----------



## tonyd79

"billsharpe" said:


> Let's see. A one-hour show with four commercial breaks of two minutes each. That's 16 presses to skip or four presses of slip while watching the commercials during fast-forward.
> 
> Automatic commercial skip, if it really works, is indeed a big deal.


It is but it is extremely limited both in terms of what shows it does and the timeframe that it does it in. Nice if you already have the system but not a feature worth buying in for.


----------



## sigma1914

billsharpe said:


> Let's see. A one-hour show with four commercial breaks of two minutes each. That's 16 presses to skip or four presses of slip while watching the commercials during fast-forward.
> 
> Automatic commercial skip, if it really works, is indeed a big deal.


Our society has become THAT lazy where not pressing a button on a remote to FFW is a big deal?  You also must watch the show within the first 24 hours of recording...which is ok if you watch stuff quickly. I currently have around 35 series links & only about 3 I watch within a day.

BTW, your numbers are incorrect. A 1 hr show is almost always about 42 minutes of show and 18 for commercials.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

sigma1914 said:


> Our society has become THAT lazy where not pressing a button on a remote to FFW is a big deal?


Yup :lol:

I still remember the day when we had to RW and FF video and audio tapes.

Just wait until the day when we have to pay an extra fee to FF through commercials.


----------



## Jaspear

sigma1914 said:


> ...if you watch the recording within 24 hours. Big deal.... Pressing a button a few times isn't that big of a deal.


Completely false. The auto-hop feature is available after 1 AM each night and remains available for the entire eight days the program stays in the PTAT list. Auto-hop also remains with the program if you transfer it to your list and stays active until you delete the program.

It is a big deal.


----------



## sigma1914

Jaspear said:


> Completely false. The auto-hop feature is available after 1 AM each night and remains available for the entire eight days the program stays in the PTAT list. Auto-hop also remains with the program if you transfer it to your list and stays active until you delete the program.
> 
> It is a big deal.


I'm wrong and misinterpreted the feature. Disregard my previous criticism, except about people being that lazy.


----------



## Jaspear

tonyd79 said:


> It is but it is extremely limited both in terms of what shows it does and the timeframe that it does it in. Nice if you already have the system but not a feature worth buying in for.


Every prime time program on every big four network station in HD in your market. That's not extremely limited if you watch a lot of broadcast network prime time TV. The time frame is unlimited after 1 AM each night if you save programs to your list. Could very well be a feature worth buying in for.


----------



## dcowboy7

Jaspear said:


> Every prime time program on every big four network station in HD in your market.


It doesnt work on LIVE show though so it isnt every.

So no american idol, the voice, sunday night football etc.


----------



## Jaspear

sigma1914 said:


> I'm wrong and misinterpreted the feature. Disregard my previous criticism, except about people being that lazy.


I've used auto-hop for two nights and watched four programs with it turned on. I didn't realize how convenient it would be until I used it. No grabbing the remote and jumping four or five times, seeing and listening to bits of audio and video as I went and then often jumping back and forth at the end of the break looking for beginning of the program content. It just....happens. My concentration isn't interrupted and the program flows. Just like with PVRs, once you use it, you'll want it.


----------



## Jaspear

dcowboy7 said:


> It doesnt work on LIVE show though so it isnt every.
> 
> So no american idol, the voice, sunday night football etc.


True dat.


----------



## sigma1914

Jaspear said:


> I've used auto-hop for two nights and watched four programs with it turned on. I didn't realize how convenient it would be until I used it. No grabbing the remote and jumping four or five times, seeing and listening to bits of audio and video as I went and then often jumping back and forth at the end of the break looking for beginning of the program content. It just....happens. My concentration isn't interrupted and the program flows. Just like with PVRs, once you use it, you'll want it.


As someone who watches TV shows via Netflix & occasionally torrents, I'm fully aware of what it's like. IMO, it's no big deal. It's not bad or negative - it's just no big "OMG I want that!"

As I've said before, I like and want PTAT.


----------



## lparsons21

dcowboy7 said:


> It doesnt work on LIVE show though so it isnt every.
> 
> So no american idol, the voice, sunday night football etc.


And with live shows you can't skip commercials with any box. What is your point?


----------



## texasmoose

Apart from the ability to archive shows on ext drive & then plug into any other dvr on account, nothing interests me from Dish............especially the HD LITE!


----------



## dcowboy7

lparsons21 said:


> And with live shows you can't skip commercials with any box. What is your point?


On a live show the 1 button skip wont work when watching the next day even....a prerecorded show it would.


----------



## lparsons21

dcowboy7 said:


> On a live show the 1 button skip wont work when watching the next day even....a prerecorded show it would.


Uh, yes one-button skip does work on any recorded show including shows that were live when recorded, but not on any live show during the live showing.

That is true for all D* and E* DVRs.


----------



## tonyd79

"Jaspear" said:


> Every prime time program on every big four network station in HD in your market. That's not extremely limited if you watch a lot of broadcast network prime time TV. The time frame is unlimited after 1 AM each night if you save programs to your list. Could very well be a feature worth buying in for.


Still limited. You have to dedicate to the prime time recording block, which takes up a lot of tuners.

Plus, I watch most shows the same night, just collapsing time for commercials.

Not worth buying in for just to not press a remote button a few times.


----------



## lparsons21

texasmoose said:


> Apart from the ability to archive shows on ext drive & then plug into any other dvr on account, nothing interests me from Dish............especially the HD LITE!


Have you actually seen it, or just going by specs and comments here?

For me and my eyes and plasma TV, the differences are miniscule at worst and barely noticeable. And that comment is shared by very many other posters on this forum that have said the very same thing.


----------



## tonyd79

"sigma1914" said:


> As someone who watches TV shows via Netflix & occasionally torrents, I'm fully aware of what it's like. IMO, it's no big deal. It's not bad or negative - it's just no big "OMG I want that!"
> 
> As I've said before, I like and want PTAT.


Bingo. People act like no one knows what it is like to watch a show sans commercials. Netflix, amazon, DVDs. It is not that big a deal.

Like I said, nice feature but not a big selling point.


----------



## RACJ2

TheRatPatrol said:


> Yup :lol:
> 
> I still remember the day when we had to RW and FF video and audio tapes.
> 
> Just wait until the day when we have to pay an extra fee to FF through commercials.


Lets be honest, there are some here that remember the day when you had to walk up to the TV and spin the knob just to change the channel. And when you had 4 or 5 channels to choose from, in black and white. And record a program, impossible. My dad told me about those days! 

On the ability to automatically skip commercials, nice feature. I would like to have it, if it works properly. Not being lazy, its just more efficient. Not sure what the content providers think of this. Especially if they expand it to work on all channels.


----------



## dcowboy7

lparsons21 said:


> Uh, yes one-button skip does work on any recorded show including shows that were live when recorded, but not on any live show during the live showing.


That doesnt make sense ?

"Dish said that the feature will work for "most" programs, also noting that the Auto Hop capability would not work on live broadcasts."

Why would they make live shows an exception in their comments then ?


----------



## HobbyTalk

dcowboy7 said:


> That doesnt make sense ?
> 
> "Dish said that the feature will work for "most" programs, also noting that the Auto Hop capability would not work on live broadcasts."
> 
> Why would they make live shows an exception in their comments then ?


How can you skip a commercial on a show (or any part of programming) that you are watching live when the programming has not even been broadcast yet? You can't fast forward to a place that has not even been put on the airways yet. Why do they say "most"? I would guess for that rare case where it doesn't work.... if they said "all" then people would ***** when that rare case does happen.


----------



## dcowboy7

We know you cant time travel forward in real time on live or precorded shows but my point is why do they single out live shows ?

So youre saying if i watch american idol 2 days after it was on the 1 button skip will work ?


----------



## James Long

dcowboy7 said:


> "Dish said that the feature will work for "most" programs, also noting that the Auto Hop capability would not work on live broadcasts."
> 
> Why would they make live shows an exception in their comments then ?


It will not work on shows _watched_ live ... or before 1am on the day after airing. After 1am nationally broadcast shows from the night before have the skip included (American Idol, The Voice, etc.).

It does not work on non-national broadcasts ... for example the programs your Fox affiliate plays at 10pm ET (in my market, the news).



dcowboy7 said:


> So youre saying if i watch american idol 2 days after it was on the 1 button skip will work ?


Yes. Anytime after 1am on the day after the show.


----------



## TBoneit

tonyd79 said:


> Still limited. You have to dedicate to the prime time recording block, which takes up a lot of tuners.
> 
> Plus, I watch most shows the same night, just collapsing time for commercials.
> 
> Not worth buying in for just to not press a remote button a few times.


The Prime time any time uses one tuner to record the big four networks. I wish I had the time to watch all shows the same night. However I can manage at best 2 hours of show(s).

The best feature of the Hopper with PTAT is not the ability to auto skip commercials. It is the never miss any network show. Thus when someone says did you watch the new show on xxx last night. You don't have to say I missed it. Plus no matter if all four networks are showing something you don't want to miss and also record something on USA and SciFi.

DirecTV could record all four of the big four networks too for 8 days duration. All they'd have to do is have a big enough dedicated partition to hold 3 hours of four networks for 8 days. Then shuffle the networks around to ensure that all four were on the same transponder.

I don't think the D* hardware can handle it to be honest, unlike E* who it appears builds their equipment with reserve speed and memory, D* seems to spec it be just enough for the present time. MY theory of why the Slowdown as they add (Unneeded) features.

Want to take a bet if that will ever happen? MY guess is that is why the Hopper has only three tuners. The hard drive becomes a limiting factor when it has to record the equivalent of 6 channels and be able to stream four more previously recorded shows.

So what happens people get two hoppers for 6 tuners & 4 Gb of drive space?

That lets them record all four networks plus 5 other shows at once.


----------



## MysteryMan

Marlin Guy said:


> Every time you troll one of my posts an angel gets his wings. :lol:


That's a pity, seeing how they're fallen angels. :sure:


----------



## Marlin Guy

RACJ2 said:


> You do realize you are one of them? Just for a different provider? I saw all kinds of issues with the Hopper/Joey, so for many its not 99.9% flawless.


My remark was that mine had been 99.9% flawless. I can only convey my only experiences, as can you.

Hardly a fanboy. I have listed both pros and cons about the Hopper system.
See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=3013829#post3013829


----------



## dpeters11

"RACJ2" said:


> Lets be honest, there are some here that remember the day when you had to walk up to the TV and spin the knob just to change the channel. And when you had 4 or 5 channels to choose from, in black and white. And record a program, impossible. My dad told me about those days!
> .


I'm not that old and I remember those days, of the knob. We had color. One VHF and one UHF with a silver ring around it for fine tuning. My dad did have a remote, me.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Ok. Stop the bickering. Stop discussing each other. Get back on topic. I'm trying not to delete any posts but if I have to it will be a large clean up and there will be thread bans.

Everyone will be civil and will start now. If you can't think of something constructive, on topic, and civil then don't post.

Mike


----------



## mdavej

For 2 years, Dish has been the best thing since sliced bread for me (ex-DirecTV sub). I love the line-up, PQ and the new Hopper. But their penchant for dropping channels has just gotten to be intolerable. I knew they were bad about that before I signed up, but it never really affected me until now (they're dropping AMC, IFC and Sundance). Unfortunately DirecTV doesn't have anywhere near the basic HD content Dish has, so going back to them isn't an option. I have no choice but to hold my nose and get cable. I thought I'd never have to endure that again, but neither sat company can get it's act together and offer a full HD lineup. My crappy cable company has surpassed them both.


----------



## dcowboy7

James Long said:


> It will not work on shows _watched_ live ... or before 1am on the day after airing. After 1am nationally broadcast shows from the night before have the skip included (American Idol, The Voice, etc.).
> 
> It does not work on non-national broadcasts ... for example the programs your Fox affiliate plays at 10pm ET (in my market, the news).
> 
> Yes. Anytime after 1am on the day after the show.


Im still confused....the article specifically says:

"The new feature also doesn't work for any live broadcast that's been recorded off a major network."

This to me sounds like it will never work on any program that was live even if its watched days later.

Again if live shows had the same skip ability as prerecorded shows then why do they seperate live shows out as an exception in their comment ?


----------



## Satelliteracer

RACJ2 said:


> Lets be honest, there are some here that remember the day when you had to walk up to the TV and spin the knob just to change the channel. And when you had 4 or 5 channels to choose from, in black and white. And record a program, impossible. My dad told me about those days!


I remember those days. Unfortunately* I *remember those days. I think my dad had radio. LOL


----------



## Laxguy

Satelliteracer said:


> I remember those days. Unfortunately* I *remember those days. I think my dad had radio. LOL


Heh. Me, too. And the first remote! A mechanical pinger that made the round channel selector knob chug around to the channel pinged.

Would that have been a sound wave that activated those babies??


----------



## Marlin Guy

dcowboy7 said:


> Im still confused....the article specifically says:
> 
> "The new feature also doesn't work for any live broadcast that's been recorded off a major network."
> 
> This to me sounds like it will never work on any program that was live even if its watched days later.
> 
> Again if live shows had the same skip ability as prerecorded shows then why do they seperate live shows out as an exception in their comment ?


I think there may be some confusion with how the word "live" applies.
As you stated above, Auto-Hop is not available for live broadcast recordings. For example, my local Fox affiliate does live news at 10 PM every night. It's recorded and stored in PTAT, but the option to Auto-Hop is not available on those recordings.
Ditto for tonight's NASCAR race and other sports events that may get recorded in PTAT.

I assume this is because commercial breaks aren't pre-defined by the networks for such events, so the system has no way of knowing when the commercials are queued.


----------



## crawdad62

Laxguy said:


> Heh. Me, too. And the first remote! A mechanical pinger that made the round channel selector knob chug around to the channel pinged.
> 
> Would that have been a sound wave that activated those babies??


No the first remote was us. The kids always had to turn the channels but yeah I remember those TV's/remotes. My aunt had one and if you pushed one of the buttons (channel up/channel down I think that was it...maybe on off) it would make a barely audible screetching noise.


----------



## jimbo56

TheRatPatrol said:


> Yup :lol:
> 
> I still remember the day when we had to RW and FF video and audio tapes.
> 
> Just wait until the day when we have to pay an extra fee to FF through commercials.





dpeters11 said:


> I'm not that old and I remember those days, of the knob. We had color. One VHF and one UHF with a silver ring around it for fine tuning. My dad did have a remote, me.





crawdad62 said:


> No the first remote was us. The kids always had to turn the channels but yeah I remember those TV's/remotes. My aunt had one and if you pushed one of the buttons (channel up/channel down I think that was it...maybe on off) it would make a barely audible screetching noise.


I remember the remote on my first VCR (which cost me almost $1500 in around 1980) was attached to the unit with a 20 foot cord. Talk about a trip hazard!

I even remember the days when live sporting events had NO instant replay. God, am I ever old!

Excuse me, I have to go and pre-plan my funeral now.


----------



## RACJ2

Marlin Guy said:


> My remark was that mine had been 99.9% flawless. I can only convey my only experiences, as can you.
> 
> Hardly a fanboy. I have listed both pros and cons about the Hopper system.
> See http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=3013829#post3013829


OK, we are similar in more ways than one. We both can give praise when its due and then point out some weaknesses. The only reason I included you in that FB group is because you seem take opportunities to talk smack about DIRECTV and then tell us how much better DISH is.

I can respect your decision to leave DIRECTV, because everyone has different reasons for picking a provider. HD content that I watch is most important to me. Next is the performance and functionality of the equipment. Last is the esthetics of the menus, etc. With that in mind, DIRECTV works best for me, because of NFL ST, NHL CI and all the special sporting events they cover. Plus they have almost all of the channels that I watch in HD. For others, priorities can be much different.


----------



## HoTat2

crawdad62 said:


> No the first remote was us. The kids always had to turn the channels but yeah I remember those TV's/remotes. My aunt had one and if you pushed one of the buttons (channel up/channel down I think that was it...maybe on off) it would make a barely audible screetching noise.


Our first remote to a "portable" (comparatively speaking in those days of hernia causing weight sets) color TV still somewhat confuses me today as to how it actually worked. It could only change the channel (most of the time) and had no electronic parts. Just a metal bar with a spring loaded striker that hit it to make the channels change. 

Sounded a lot like an aluminum baseball bat hitting the ball when you operated or actually "pulled" the remote's switch. :lol:

Sometimes, even jiggling keys or coins near the TV set would trigger a channel change.

What was up with that? Did those metallic sounds still generate ultrasonic waves in addition to the audible ones or something?


----------



## Marlin Guy

RACJ2 said:


> The only reason I included you in that FB group is because you seem take opportunities to talk smack about DIRECTV and then tell us how much better DISH is.
> 
> I can respect your decision to leave DIRECTV, because everyone has different reasons for picking a provider.


Precisely.
I'm not talking smack. I felt as though my experiences may help someone else who is considering changing, and then there's the whole title and theme of this thread.

I did a tremendous amount of research before calling Dish. I made sure that they had the channels and features that were most important to me. I'm not a big sports fan, and I get my movies from alternate sources, so losing sports packagers that I never subscribed to was equally as meaningless as gaining Blockbuster.

Once I saw that the only thing I was losing that I liked was Velocity and Hot Pass, I weighed the hardware considerations. My HR20-700 was so slow that it enraged me on a regular basis. I even took the remote apart and cleaned it twice in the last year, because the buttons didn't appear to be working. Then I read where many others were having similar issues, and the new firmware updates were making things worse, not better.

Add to that the fact that I'd had previous experiences with Dish, and remembered their trickplay to be far better, IMO, and their UI to be faster, and I made the call.

I made it point to schedule the installation for a week out, and I had the CS rep confirm that I could cancel up to the day before the scheduled installation date, so that I could give DirecTV the opportunity to keep my business. I even recorded the conversation, just to cover all of my bases, anticipating backing out and staying with DirecTV.

I absolutely would have stayed with DirecTV if they'd offered me all new equipment - matching Dish's offer. They refused to do that. At best, all they would promise me was refurbished HR series equipment, possibly the same series that I had. They said I could always refuse the installation of the tech didn't have what I wanted on the truck.
This was an illuminating statement to me for a couple of reasons.
1. They didn't mind throwing the installer under the bus.
2. The were steadfastly refusing to admit that their software had outgrown the hardware, which meant the future didn't look very appealing at all.

I politely and frankly told them that they were about to lose my business to Dish, if they didn't step up with new hardware. They refused, and I left. I'm not bitter towards them. That's simply the facts of my case.

I'm very happy with my new equipment, so in that respect, yes, I am a FB. If DirecTV had worked with me I would likely be very pleased with their new hardware as well, and I'd be singing their praises.

I post the information, because it is just that - information.
If it helps someone else to make an informed decision, then it's worthy of being here, and I will post it again and again, should I find it to be relevant to other discussions. I realize that much of it has been repeated in other threads. But I also know enough about forums to understand that not every user reads every thread the way that a handful do. So if my information applies to a new thread, then I'll repeat the story, so that it can be seen again.
It's no different than someone reposting the technique for clearing the NVRAM multiple times. If it applies, it belongs.

I'm not going to apologize for relating my own experiences. By the same token, I urge anyone who may be considering switching providers, in either direction, to do their homework and make a well informed decision. I know enough about how these things work to realize that the next person to call a cancellation order in my be treated completely differently, so don't take my experiences, or anyone else's, as any indication of curent policies and practices.

As for those who seem to get their knickers twisted every time I post about my experiences, I've come to realize that it is their intention to invoke angered responses, thus getting me banned, the thread locked, or both. So the policy is now to ignore them and let the mods deal with them as they see fit.


----------



## Jaspear

Marlin Guy said:


> Precisely.
> 
> I absolutely would have stayed with DirecTV if they'd offered me all new equipment - matching Dish's offer. They refused to do that. At best, all they would promise me was refurbished HR series equipment, possibly the same series that I had. They said I could always refuse the installation of the tech didn't have what I wanted on the truck.
> This was an illuminating statement to me for a couple of reasons.
> 1. They didn't mind throwing the installer under the bus.
> 2. The were steadfastly refusing to admit that their software had outgrown the hardware, which meant the future didn't look very appealing at all.
> 
> I politely and frankly told them that they were about to lose my business to Dish, if they didn't step up with new hardware. They refused, and I left. I'm not bitter towards them. That's simply the facts of my case.


And here's the irony in that. Five days after I left, DirecTV offered me an HR-34 installed free, $20 a month off my old programming package for a year, and free premium channels for three months. If I had gotten that offer from the retention CSR, I would still be a DirecTV sub. Heck, I'd still be a DirecTV sub if they had offered me just the HR-34!

On the other hand, if I had stayed, I would not be experiencing the Hopper, far and away the best DVR I have ever used, all the back to my first generation Tivo 12 years ago.


----------



## RACJ2

Fair enough... I guess its the battle that starts, that I was referring to. I try to avoid them, because it reaaly does no good. There are features I like about Dish, just couldn't change because ot the sports I mentioned


----------



## trainman

HoTat2 said:


> What was up with that? Did those metallic sounds still generate ultrasonic waves in addition to the audible ones or something?


Yes, that's exactly how they worked.


----------



## lparsons21

RACJ2 said:


> Fair enough... I guess its the battle that starts, that I was referring to. I try to avoid them, because it reaaly does no good. There are features I like about Dish, just couldn't change because ot the sports I mentioned


That is perfectly understandable.

My viewing of sports is boxing and golf, and both services show them plenty, with Dish having a very slight edge with boxing because of Epix.

I tend to scripted dramas and really good comedies, and both have them aplenty.

That said, I was prepared to leave D* because of the performance of my HR24-500s and not having BBCA in HD. But now D* seems to have the fix in for the HR24, and Dish looks to be losing AMC. So the decision is back up in the air.

I have until August to make a choice again as at that time my rebates with D* expire and I can save an overall $480 in the first year after a switch. So basically the choice is pay about $40/month more than I would with E*, but lose AMC. Of course, I can get the AMC stuff I want with streaming and such, but the cost would be a bit on the high side.


----------



## Worn

Well, I've decided to switch to Dish. I'm going with two hoppers and two joeys. I figured I'd fork out the $200 now rather than pay twice as much when I realized I needed more than a three tuner system.
I've had both dish and directv and have honestly been happier with dish's remote and lineup, also their pricing is better and I only want the red zone channel, ($9/ month and cancel after the NFL season), vs. $200 + for Sunday Ticket, which is the only way Direct offers the Red Zone channel.
I gave direct a chance to compete, but $149 for the HMC didn't cut it. I still have a week before installation, so if anyone can convince me otherwise, I'm moving to dish.


----------



## Laxguy

As we say in the West: ìVaya con Dios!


----------



## dcowboy7

Marlin Guy said:


> I think there may be some confusion with how the word "live" applies.
> As you stated above, Auto-Hop is not available for live broadcast recordings. For example, my local Fox affiliate does live news at 10 PM every night. It's recorded and stored in PTAT, but the option to Auto-Hop is not available on those recordings.
> Ditto for tonight's NASCAR race and other sports events that may get recorded in PTAT.
> 
> I assume this is because commercial breaks aren't pre-defined by the networks for such events, so the system has no way of knowing when the commercials are queued.


So just to clarify youre saying even if you watch amercian idol 2 days later you still can not use 1 step autohop ?

Because in post #537 JL says that you can.


----------



## dcowboy7

Worn said:


> Well, I've decided to switch to Dish....and I only want the red zone channel, ($9/ month and cancel after the NFL season), vs. $200 + for Sunday Ticket, which is the only way Direct offers the Red Zone channel.


Not officially you cant but as many posted here last year they called & did get just the redzone channel for free without having to get ST.


----------



## Marlin Guy

dcowboy7 said:


> So just to clarify youre saying even if you watch amercian idol 2 days later you still can not use 1 step autohop ?
> 
> Because in post #537 JL says that you can.


Note the absence of the red Hopper logo in the upper right corner on AI and on the news.
Those were live shows. Auto-Hop is not available on them, even days later.


----------



## dcowboy7

Ah ok thx -- guess JL needs to brush up on dish goings on.


----------



## James Long

dcowboy7 said:


> So just to clarify youre saying even if you watch amercian idol 2 days later you still can not use 1 step autohop ?
> 
> Because in post #537 JL says that you can.


Scripted national live shows AutoHop.



Marlin Guy said:


> Note the absence of the red Hopper logo in the upper right corner on AI and on the news.
> Those were live shows. Auto-Hop is not available on them, even days later.


Odd. I have AutoHop on both the 5/09 and 5/10 episodes.

Perhaps I got the latest firmware before you? (Mine came 5/9/12 at 3:56am ET.)

The only shows that do not have AutoHop are local programming, the 8pm Sunday Simpsons (7pm is AutoHop) ... Nascar Darlington, and shows recorded before I got the current software. I don't mind NASCAR not having the skip because it is the kind of program I'd either watch live (same night) or play fast forward except for cautions and green flag pit stops (or anything else that caught my eye the next day).


----------



## rahlquist

Not a chance


----------



## Darcaine

IMO Dish is certainly more attractive, and if I were a new costumer looking to get satellite service I'd go with Dish.

But it's not worth the effort to switch at this point.

I'm more interested in seeing if Allvid ever comes to fruition and I can use my media center PC as my DVR for the service I already have.


----------



## crawdad62

Darcaine said:


> But it's not worth the effort to switch at this point.


That's probably the case for most people. Both ways.


----------



## Laxguy

crawdad62 said:


> That's probably the case for most people. Both ways.


Well, I am straight, and go only one way, but I agree with your point! :lol:

Just trying to inject some levity, no knock on your post at all.....


----------



## Billzebub

I don't think Dish is better and I'm not going anywhere, but I guess my daughter is. She's had DIRECTV for a number of years and currently has 2 DVRs and non-supported whole house with both DVRs run through her router.

She has just got an HD TV for my granddaughter so she needs another receiver. Since there's no practical way to run a new cat 5 line from her daughter's room she also needs to go the DECA route for whole home.

She and I called DIRECTV today and for 45 minutes I was told by the CSR that she already had whole home and couldn't get it installed. She finally put me on hold and came back 30 minutes later to tell me it would cost approximately $400 to install whole home and get an HD receiver.

Of course DIRECTV doesn't owe her anything and I'm not suggesting they do. But she is exactly the type of customer that might be attracted by the hopper/joey setup. Even though she isn't out of contract till November it's cheaper for her to pay the ETF and go to Dish ($120) than to pay the $400 to DIRECTV. 

Her bill is about $100 per month without sports or premium channels. She probably doesn't want to switch, but might be forced to. The sad part is the as soon as she signs a 2 year commitment with DISH, DIRECTV will make all kinds of offers for her to come back but it will be too late.
I'll try retention before she leaves but it sure looks like she's gone.


----------



## Shades228

Billzebub said:


> I don't think Dish is better and I'm not going anywhere, but I guess my daughter is. She's had DIRECTV for a number of years and currently has 2 DVRs and non-supported whole house with both DVRs run through her router.
> 
> She has just got an HD TV for my granddaughter so she needs another receiver. Since there's no practical way to run a new cat 5 line from her daughter's room she also needs to go the DECA route for whole home.
> 
> She and I called DIRECTV today and for 45 minutes I was told by the CSR that she already had whole home and couldn't get it installed. She finally put me on hold and came back 30 minutes later to tell me it would cost approximately $400 to install whole home and get an HD receiver.
> 
> Of course DIRECTV doesn't owe her anything and I'm not suggesting they do. But she is exactly the type of customer that might be attracted by the hopper/joey setup. Even though she isn't out of contract till November it's cheaper for her to pay the ETF and go to Dish ($120) than to pay the $400 to DIRECTV.
> 
> Her bill is about $100 per month without sports or premium channels. She probably doesn't want to switch, but might be forced to. The sad part is the as soon as she signs a 2 year commitment with DISH, DIRECTV will make all kinds of offers for her to come back but it will be too late.
> I'll try retention before she leaves but it sure looks like she's gone.


If she has wireless just order a wireless CCK for that room.


----------



## Phil17108

I went to the other side of destalk.com and found that the dish customers sound more unhappy then the directv customers on this side. look before you leap.


----------



## Billzebub

Phil17108 said:


> I went to the other side of destalk.com and found that the dish customers sound more unhappy then the directv customers on this side. look before you leap.


I'm not going anywhere, but it just doesn't make sense for my daughter to spend that much money. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Billzebub

Shades228 said:


> If she has wireless just order a wireless CCK for that room.


It's not just the whole home setup, they want $148 for the additional HD receiver.


----------



## dpeters11

Which is ridiculous since you can get a guaranteed H24 from Solid signal for about $110.


----------



## damondlt

Phil17108 said:


> I went to the other side of destalk.com and found that the dish customers sound more unhappy then the directv customers on this side. look before you leap.


That's why a lot of them are so sensitive. They smell defeat and have to go on the defensive over every little question or comment. One thread a couple direct guys helped yes helped a dish sub and dish guys were all over them bashing the direct guys.

A mod by the way was even fueling it:nono:
Another thread same deal a dish guy was looking into his options and again dish guys attack him. 
I say do what you want.

But honestly what would we be missing by not having dish. They have barely any sports they fight with networks all the time they are no cheaper. The hopper no one will give you a straight answer on its operation and recording abilities. 
I find it hard to believe that a 3 tuner Dvr can record 6 things but that what they are trying to push.
So in my opinion the Hr34 and and 3 H 25's that would only cost most new customers $99 will kick the crap out of the hopper system. 
That will* record AND watch live Tv at the SAME TIME in all 4 rooms *. Plus 4 rooms can watch a previously recorded show or movie at the same time since it will stream 3 remote locations at the same time. Or record 5 Live shows while watching 4 recorded shows.
That's an 8 tuner system.

And this can be done *24 hours a day 7 days a week and 365 days a year and 366 on a leap year.*

Now lets get the real hopper story. And leave OTA out of it since these are satellite company's.
Not dishes poor excuse and poor answer for customers local channels.

By the way the fees are $38 for this setup $28 if you sign up for autopay like i did.
Thats HD ,DVR and Whole home and 3 addtional receivers.


----------



## dpeters11

"damondlt" said:


> I find it hard to believe that a 3 tuner Dvr can record 6 things but that what they are trying to push.


It is true, during Primetime on the networks. The Hopper has the ability to record a transponder using one tuner.


----------



## MysteryMan

dpeters11 said:


> Which is ridiculous since you can get a guaranteed H24 from Solid signal for about $110.


True for knowledgeable folks like us. But I doubt that the vast majority of DirecTV subs ever heard of SolidSignal.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

damondlt said:


> <snip> I find it hard to believe that a 3 tuner Dvr can record 6 things but that what they are trying to push. <snip>


It can but only during Prime Time. IIUC, it pulls all the networks from on transponder on one tuner. So the four networks plus the remaining two tuners is 6 simultaneous recordings.

However, the Primetime Anytime feature is the only way it can record 6 things. If the subscriber were to schedule simultaneous recording he would be limited to one on each of the three tuners...IOW only 3 recordings at once. If you're using Prime Time Any Time you are limited to using only the other two tuners during prime time hours.

In a limited sense it can record 6 things at once but that doesn't mean the subscriber can choose six things to record. At most the sub can record three things of his/her own choice or two choices during prime time.

Mike


----------



## HoTat2

Billzebub said:


> It's not just the whole home setup, they want $148 for the additional HD receiver.


While your daughter may only looking for a STB receiver for your granddaughter, you might ask her to consider my brother's situation where he had a similar complaint when he needed an additional HD-DVR. They wanted the full price of $199.00 for what would likely be a refurb anyhow.

So he just went with a brand new, though out of box, R22 sale special from SolidSignal for $79 (+S&H).

And for insurance I think the current policy now is if it's HD enabled and ever goes bad, DIRECTV will replace it with an HR2X model.


----------



## lparsons21

Mike, all that is very true. And whether or not it is a practical solution depends on the viewing and recording pattern of the subscriber.

Because the only times I ever have more than 3 recordings going at once is during primetime and caused solely because of the 4 big broadcasters, I can and might replace my 3 HR24s with one Hopper and one Joey.

For those that watch a lot of live events, and/or record lots of other one-off shows, that might not work so well.


----------



## mdavej

Billzebub,

No worries. Your daughter will absolutely love Dish. They have a lot more basic HD (not counting sports), the Hopper system is blazing fast, effortless with PTAT and auto hop, has a huge amount of space you can augment (instead of replace) with external drives, IR and RF remotes work at the same time. Not only that, but you can watch anything anytime anywhere in the world with the sling adapter. 

You get 3 tuners (not 5 like the HR-34). But unlike the 34, the box is free, and one of the tuners can record the whole local transponder during prime time. If that's not enough, get another one, and you'll still come out cheaper than the 34 and have more tuners and more capacity. 

I don't know where some other posters are coming from, but every post that I've seen by ex-DirecTV subs like myself has indicated they are much happier with Dish. If you follow the threads of those that initially had issues, you'll see they were quickly resolved. 

Granted I'm not happy at all about the latest AMC dispute, but overall I love the service. If the AMC thing doesn't work out, I'll just hold my nose and get cable.


----------



## patmurphey

damondlt said:


> ... I find it hard to believe that a 3 tuner Dvr can record 6 things but that what they are trying to push.
> So in my opinion the Hr34 and and 3 H 25's that would only cost most new customers $99 will kick the crap out of the hopper system.
> That will* record AND watch live Tv at the SAME TIME in all 4 rooms *. Plus 4 rooms can watch a previously recorded show or movie at the same time since it will stream 3 remote locations at the same time. Or record 5 Live shows while watching 4 recorded shows.
> That's an 8 tuner system...


It's ridiculous to compare that setup to a one Hopper Dish setup.


----------



## HoTat2

Of note though, I doubt dish really had a choice but to limit the Hopper to only three tuners while maintaining single wire capability. Because unlike DIRECTV's SWiM which is an intelligent multiswitch to switch the much narrower satellite transponder streams to a max. of 8 individual (9 with the CG) RF carriers for distribution to the receiver tuners in a much lower and manageable spectrum on the cable.

The dish Hopper uses an extension of "unintelligent" frequency stacking placing a third 500 MHz wide frequency block somewhere atop the current two 950-1450 MHz, 1650-2150 MHz via a "Solo" or "Duo Node" device. 

Therefore the RG6 coax feeding the Hopper from the Node is now pushing near 3 GHz which is about its practical limit.


----------



## damondlt

patmurphey said:


> It's ridiculous to compare that setup to a one Hopper Dish setup.


Why? Tell me what equipment and setup you want to compair.
2 hoppers and 2 joey's? Just make sure you state the correct fees. And functions


----------



## damondlt

Mike Bertelson said:


> It can but only during Prime Time. IIUC, it pulls all the networks from on transponder on one tuner. So the four networks plus the remaining two tuners is 6 simultaneous recordings.
> 
> However, the Primetime Anytime feature is the only way it can record 6 things. If the subscriber were to schedule simultaneous recording he would be limited to one on each of the three tuners...IOW only 3 recordings at once. If you're using Prime Time Any Time you are limited to using only the other two tuners during prime time hours.
> 
> In a limited sense it can record 6 things at once but that doesn't mean the subscriber can choose six things to record. At most the sub can record three things of his/her own choice or two choices during prime time.
> 
> Mike


Thanks that helps me understand better. First straight answer I got.


----------



## rapidturtle

I have Dish now, and am coming on over to D*. I'm from the NY area, and loosing SNY, the last NY RSN was the last straw for me. I personally can't wait to get away from Dish. The way they drop channels gets old after a while. 
I am also a huge Walking Dead fan, and I think if they do drop AMC, they are making a huge mistake.


----------



## P Smith

damondlt said:


> Thanks that helps me understand better. First straight answer I got.


We have dedicated forum for h2k/j [XiP813/XiP110], its functions, bugs, etc.

You should read there - a lot of info to digest, include how the PTA is working, 3 tuners, 6 programs, and much more.


----------



## damondlt

rapidturtle said:


> I have Dish now, and am coming on over to D*. I'm from the NY area, and loosing SNY, the last NY RSN was the last straw for me. I personally can't wait to get away from Dish. The way they drop channels gets old after a while.
> I am also a huge Walking Dead fan, and I think if they do drop AMC, they are making a huge mistake.


 You won't be disappointed. Directv doesn't have Epix, but you can stream in on a Roku if you need it that bad.

The NY Sports DMA is good with Directv.


BIG 10 HD(depends on your exact location without the sports pack)
MSG HD
MSG+ HD
SNY HD
YES HD
and a TON of HD alternate MSG,YES, SNY channels.
Dish Gave up on NY CITY sports .

Your city may be next!:eek2:


----------



## bidger

damondlt said:


> Dish Gave up on NY CITY sports .


And that translates to NY STATE Sports. Some folks are fine with that, but that needs to be taken into account if you're in that situation and thinking about switching.


----------



## patmurphey

damondlt said:


> Why? Tell me what equipment and setup you want to compair.
> 2 hoppers and 2 joey's? Just make sure you state the correct fees. And functions


The Hopper/Joey system is designed so that if you need more than 3 tuners, you add 3 with another Hopper with the added benefit of an additional terabyte of user storage. That way the same hardware satisfies both needs. Fees are the same for Hoppers and Joeys, The first box is $6 DVR plus $4 whole home, each additional box is $7. That is why it is "unfair" to compare HR34s to one Hopper, get it? Joeys and Hoppers have the same functions (except PIP), both can set and play timers. Joeys can control both Hoppers and Hopper integration is coming soon.


----------



## domingos35

patmurphey said:


> The Hopper/Joey system is designed so that if you need more than 3 tuners, you add 3 with another Hopper with the added benefit of an additional terabyte of user storage. That way the same hardware satisfies both needs. Fees are the same for Hoppers and Joeys, The first box is $6 DVR plus $4 whole home, each additional box is $7. That is why it is "unfair" to compare HR34s to one Hopper, get it? Joeys and Hoppers have the same functions (except PIP), both can set and play timers. Joeys can control both Hoppers and Hopper integration is coming soon.


with hopper integration i'll be able to record 6 diferent shows at the same time and have 2 terabytes of space 
can't wait


----------



## inkahauts

"patmurphey" said:


> It's ridiculous to compare that setup to a one Hopper Dish setup.


Why? That's a normal expected setup right now.


----------



## inkahauts

"patmurphey" said:


> The Hopper/Joey system is designed so that if you need more than 3 tuners, you add 3 with another Hopper with the added benefit of an additional terabyte of user storage. That way the same hardware satisfies both needs. Fees are the same for Hoppers and Joeys, The first box is $6 DVR plus $4 whole home, each additional box is $7. That is why it is "unfair" to compare HR34s to one Hopper, get it? Joeys and Hoppers have the same functions (except PIP), both can set and play timers. Joeys can control both Hoppers and Hopper integration is coming soon.


So why is it unfair to compare a four room system from DIRECTV and a four room system from dish? They both have their pluses and minuses. Eventually when they get rvu clients out, DIRECTV will be even more similar to dish, and still have more ability than a one hopper system for most people.


----------



## mdavej

"inkahauts" said:


> Why? That's a normal expected setup right now.


No it isn't. You're comparing an expensive DVR and receiver system to a cheaper client server system. For a fair comparison, start with the real cost for an existing sub and the same number of tuners in both systems. The HR34 is supposed to be client server like Hopper, but isn't yet. When it is, you can compare apples to apples.


----------



## bman3333

Since I just decided three weeks ago between the two and selected Directv, I guess I demonstrated how I think about the two competitors. It was simple for me - no Sprout offered on Dish, so no new customer. I also don't understand the thinking behind Dish's wh-dvr service equipment - Hopper and Joey? I take it their marketing department is from Australia!:hurah:


----------



## dpeters11

It hops over commercials (some) and the Joey is totally dependent on the hopper.


----------



## James Long

dpeters11 said:


> It hops over commercials (some) and the Joey is totally dependent on the hopper.


There is also the double meaning of a hopper as a place to store things. The Hoppers serve as a central storage location for both timer based recordings, Prime Time Anytime recordings (if enabled by the users) and other subscribed content. The names seem to make more sense as time goes on.


----------



## inkahauts

mdavej said:


> No it isn't. You're comparing an expensive DVR and receiver system to a cheaper client server system. For a fair comparison, start with the real cost for an existing sub and the same number of tuners in both systems. The HR34 is supposed to be client server like Hopper, but isn't yet. When it is, you can compare apples to apples.


Neither is that expensive from either company, depending on where you are starting from. But both can have their prices increase as well depending on where your starting from. If you have a person that has neither right now, they will both get great deals for either system, so you can't limit it to which is more expensive if you are currently a directv subscriber. That's unrealistic.

I can also compare the two systems now as two different ways to get television at four locations and record tv. While they do work differently in some aspects they give you the same major abilities, which is to record a bunch of channels at once, and watch tvs in a bunch of places at once, and set recordings from anywhere, and view anything recorded anywhere. So yeah, I can compare them now.

I think you don't want to compare them because currently, Directvs system is far far more versatile. When clients come out, while Directvs system with dedicated clienst instead of the current receiver clients will be less versitale than today, I think it will still be more versatile overall.

And with that said, today, the hopper system does have some advantages over the directv system. The question is are those advantages bigger than the disadvantages. ( I can say that from either systems point of view)

As I always say, its nice to have competition, and have the competition do something slightly different. Keeps both companies innovating, something neither would do if all they had to do is compete with cable.


----------



## dpeters11

I never really thought of that type of hopper. I couldn't get past the kangaroo reference.


----------



## damondlt

inkahauts said:


> Neither is that expensive from either company, depending on where you are starting from. But both can have their prices increase as well depending on where your starting from. If you have a person that has neither right now, they will both get great deals for either system, so you can't limit it to which is more expensive if you are currently a directv subscriber. That's unrealistic.
> 
> I can also compare the two systems now as two different ways to get television at four locations and record tv. While they do work differently in some aspects they give you the same major abilities, which is to record a bunch of channels at once, and watch tvs in a bunch of places at once, and set recordings from anywhere, and view anything recorded anywhere. So yeah, I can compare them now.
> 
> I think you don't want to compare them because currently, Directvs system is far far more versatile. When clients come out, while Directvs system with dedicated clienst instead of the current receiver clients will be less versitale than today, I think it will still be more versatile overall.
> 
> And with that said, today, the hopper system does have some advantages over the directv system. The question is are those advantages bigger than the disadvantages. ( I can say that from either systems point of view)
> 
> As I always say, its nice to have competition, and have the competition do something slightly different. Keeps both companies innovating, something neither would do if all they had to do is compete with cable.


100% agreement


----------



## DJSGP

Dish may not be getting "better..." but they ARE pushing innovation and touting their differentiation. DirecTV had the position in the marketplace with the big HD rollout. If you were a D customer - you felt a lot of love from them. Lately: not so much.


----------



## inkahauts

"DJSGP" said:


> Dish may not be getting "better..." but they ARE pushing innovation and touting their differentiation. DirecTV had the position in the marketplace with the big HD rollout. If you were a D customer - you felt a lot of love from them. Lately: not so much.


That's not true for everyone. They have had everything I want in Hi Definition for ages, so I am still overly happy about that aspect. As for hardware, well, until it works like replaytv no one will be the absolute best IMHO, but even so, I still like the HR34 over the hopper, but I think the hopper is also a great idea. Just not enough to even come close to swaying me to consider dish. Bt even so, the HR34 is also a big step forward just like the hopper over all previous two tuner DVRs. Love advancement.


----------



## RACJ2

DJSGP said:


> Dish may not be getting "better..." but they ARE pushing innovation and touting their differentiation. DirecTV had the position in the marketplace with the big HD rollout. If you were a D customer - you felt a lot of love from them. Lately: not so much.


Maybe you're keeping up with the changes that DIRECTV is making, about as well as you are keeping in touch with this forum. Only 7 of your posts back, which was over 3 years ago, you asked about PIP. Well, DIRECTV does have PIP on the new HR34 HMC DVR, in case you didn't know (At least now you might know in about 6 months or so).

I disagree about not feeling the love from DIRECTV. They recently gave me an HR34 for free. I was definitely feeling the love when that happened. And there is only 1 channel that I wish they would add the HD version of, so no major complaints here. Not that I wouldn't like all the channels to be in HD, then I might actually tune to them.


DJSGP said:


> It's not the traditional PIP that's the viewers need. (Not to mention really goofy implementation by various manufacturers).
> 
> What people want is the ability to view multiple feeds simultaneously - especially when they have a humongus 90" set in the dining room.
> 
> Directs News and Sports Mix are on the right track.
> Make the images HD and suddenly you can see what is on each one...
> and you've got something of value.
> 
> Allow users to customize their Mix - and you would have customers thinking they had hit the jackpot.


----------



## 242424

"Gave" you a HR34? No commitment and you own it?


----------



## P Smith

> They recently gave me an HR34 for free.


Please, reveal details, perhaps I could get it too...


----------



## RACJ2

242424 said:


> "Gave" you a HR34? No commitment and you own it?


You read a bit too much into that. They don't give away owned equipment. They gave me a leased HR34 with no upfront cost in exchange for a 2 yr commitment. That's not an issue for me, since I'm not leaving unless someone can match the NFL and NHL HD coverage DIRECTV has. Plus give me an offer that entices me to switch.


----------



## damondlt

RACJ2 said:


> You read a bit too much into that. They don't give away owned equipment. They gave me a leased HR34 with no upfront cost in exchange for a 2 yr commitment. That's not an issue for me, since I'm not leaving unless someone can match the NFL and NHL HD coverage DIRECTV has. Plus give me an offer that entices me to switch.


I'm sure there was only a few that didn't know what you meant. :nono: 
They just happened to respond at once.:lol:
I myself and many others understood.


----------



## RACJ2

damondlt said:


> I'm sure there was only a few that didn't know what you meant. :nono:
> They just happened to respond at once.:lol:
> I myself and many others understood.


Thanks! Maybe someone is trying to reach 15,000 posts, while the other one is trying to reach 15?


----------



## 242424

RACJ2 said:


> You read a bit too much into that. They don't give away owned equipment. They gave me a leased HR34 with no upfront cost in exchange for a 2 yr commitment. That's not an issue for me, since I'm not leaving unless someone can match the NFL and NHL HD coverage DIRECTV has. Plus give me an offer that entices me to switch.


Exactly. What you meant is you got what everybody else can get with a little work.


----------



## RACJ2

242424 said:


> Exactly. What you meant is you got what everybody else can get with a little work.


Everybody can get it with a little work? Even subscribers that are late on payments? Wow, hard to believe! Did you get an HR 34 with no upfront charges, free MRV installation, free SWiM LNB, free CCK and free installation? I seem to remember a thread with subscribers being asked to pay up to $649 for the same deal, for example:


BuffaloDenny said:


> Same here. 16 years for me. Just got off the phone - $649! Cinema connection kit $100 (not sure what that is, I'll have to look it up), upgrade fee $50 (I *bought* a Nomad, so they count that as an upgrade in the last year!), connect to a TV fee $50 (what?), installation fee $50, receiver fee $399 = $649.
> 
> They told me I would own the HR34 after about 2.5 years paying the lease fee - doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> Anyway, out of my price range, and very disappointing they don't offer veteran customers with perfect payment histories over 16 years a better offer. For the first time in all those years, I am seriously considering exploring my other options. Then maybe whan I come back as a new customer for football season I can get one of those sweet deals.:nono2:


----------



## damondlt

RACJ2 said:


> Everybody can get it with a little work? Even subscribers that are late on payments? Wow, hard to believe! Did you get an HR 34 with no upfront charges, free MRV installation, free SWiM LNB, free CCK and free installation? I seem to remember a thread with subscribers being asked to pay up to $649 for the same deal, for example:


 I agree!
New customers also. I had my Tech ask me what it cost me for the setup I got.

Apparently if your credit is subpar. HR 34 are still $99 but thats all you'll get a discount on, and there is still $300-$500 deposits.

They are *not* giving out HR34's like no tomorrow.
We shouldn't imply that they are.


----------



## Billzebub

Billzebub said:


> I don't think Dish is better and I'm not going anywhere, but I guess my daughter is. She's had DIRECTV for a number of years and currently has 2 DVRs and non-supported whole house with both DVRs run through her router.
> 
> She has just got an HD TV for my granddaughter so she needs another receiver. Since there's no practical way to run a new cat 5 line from her daughter's room she also needs to go the DECA route for whole home.
> 
> She and I called DIRECTV today and for 45 minutes I was told by the CSR that she already had whole home and couldn't get it installed. She finally put me on hold and came back 30 minutes later to tell me it would cost approximately $400 to install whole home and get an HD receiver.
> 
> Of course DIRECTV doesn't owe her anything and I'm not suggesting they do. But she is exactly the type of customer that might be attracted by the hopper/joey setup. Even though she isn't out of contract till November it's cheaper for her to pay the ETF and go to Dish ($120) than to pay the $400 to DIRECTV.
> 
> Her bill is about $100 per month without sports or premium channels. She probably doesn't want to switch, but might be forced to. The sad part is the as soon as she signs a 2 year commitment with DISH, DIRECTV will make all kinds of offers for her to come back but it will be too late.
> I'll try retention before she leaves but it sure looks like she's gone.


Just an update. After another call to Directv the price somehow went up to $600. After an email and a call from the Customer Respone Team (I think that's what they call it) she was offered the new receiver and whole home at a reasonable price (about $150) so she'll be staying with Directv.
The one problem I encountered with the whole process was how difficult is is to explain to the front line CSRs when you pay for whole home but don't have the DECA setup. It really seems to confuse them. I'd suggest some training was called for, but really, how many people that aren't on this board have the unsupported whole home setup?


----------



## onebadmofo

I considered switch a few weeks back. I was fairly close. But one call to Dish to inquire about service, really took me aback from doing business with them. The rep on the phone literally had a full one minute rant on how "DTV puts stuff in really small print and then sticks it to you".....this was after I told her I'd been with them for 10 years. I then said, "you know, if they had ever done that, I wouldn't have stuck around for 10 years"....and promptly hung up.

Either way, to each their own. If sports and a great HD PQ are important to you, I would not switch. If you watch regular SD(which we don't)then Dish may have more value to you.

Either way, just remember whatever you do, it's a 2 year committment...


----------



## onebadmofo

Billzebub said:


> Just an update. After another call to Directv the price somehow went up to $600. After an email and a call from the Customer Respone Team (I think that's what they call it) she was offered the new receiver and whole home at a reasonable price (about $150) so she'll be staying with Directv.
> The one problem I encountered with the whole process was how difficult is is to explain to the front line CSRs when you pay for whole home but don't have the DECA setup. It really seems to confuse them. I'd suggest some training was called for, but really, how many people that aren't on this board have the unsupported whole home setup?


FYI, whenever I call in for pretty much anything, I just say "retentions or cancellation"....that gets someone on the phone much better qualified. I use that even if I'm adding new programming cuz a lot of times, they'll hook you up with deals on it as well...just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## inkahauts

"Billzebub" said:


> Just an update. After another call to Directv the price somehow went up to $600. After an email and a call from the Customer Respone Team (I think that's what they call it) she was offered the new receiver and whole home at a reasonable price (about $150) so she'll be staying with Directv.
> The one problem I encountered with the whole process was how difficult is is to explain to the front line CSRs when you pay for whole home but don't have the DECA setup. It really seems to confuse them. I'd suggest some training was called for, but really, how many people that aren't on this board have the unsupported whole home setup?


If your unsupported Whole Home Service right now, your really better off just calling in and canceling Whole Home Service, then calling again the next day to get it added again, no need to try and explain that way. Unsupported is really only something that people here at dbstalk and maybe a couple other places even know about it. It's very very rare, not worth the training to any front csr.


----------



## smitbret

Billzebub said:


> The one problem I encountered with the whole process was how difficult is is to explain to the front line CSRs when you pay for whole home but don't have the DECA setup. It really seems to confuse them. I'd suggest some training was called for, but really, how many people that aren't on this board have the unsupported whole home setup?


Why would DirecTV train CSRs to support an unsupported feature?


----------



## dpeters11

They shouldn't need to try to support it, but should know that someone can have it.


----------



## peds48

Billzebub said:


> The one problem I encountered with the whole process was how difficult is is to explain to the front line CSRs when you pay for whole home but don't have the DECA setup. It really seems to confuse them. I'd suggest some training was called for, but really, how many people that aren't on this board have the unsupported whole home setup?


that is exactly why is called "unsupported"


----------



## Billzebub

peds48 said:


> that is exactly why is called "unsupported"


Just to be clear, I wasn't looking for support. I wanted the supported system installed at my daughter's home. The CSR kept insisting she already had whole-home so they couldn't install it.


----------



## veryoldschool

Billzebub said:


> Just to be clear, I wasn't looking for support. I wanted the supported system installed at my daughter's home. *The CSR kept insisting she already had whole-home* so they couldn't install it.


Which she did.
This is sort of what happens when you've gotten connected "outside" of the system. The computer system is barely programed to activate it in unsupported mode, so it isn't that surprising that the systems doesn't have the option to move it to supported [with hardware].


----------



## gslater

Maybe things have changed over the years but I called in and got the "unsupported" setup when it was first available. Then after a month or so, I was having issues with signal strength and decided I really needed a dish realignment or replacement (I had an AT9 sidecar dish at the time). Considering the price to do that vs. $99 for a whole home upgrade, I called in and asked for the upgrade. Got the dish replaced, a Swm setup with DECAs and my two H20's swapped out for H21's for not much more than the alignment alone would have cost and they never batted an eye about my already having whole home in unsupported mode. In fact I even told them that I did and wanted to take the $99 deal to get it into a supported mode.


----------



## veryoldschool

gslater said:


> Maybe things have changed...


They have. There was a upgrade push in the beginning for the service.
The upgrade price has increased since.


----------



## gslater

veryoldschool said:


> They have. There was a upgrade push in the beginning for the service.
> The upgrade price has increased since.


I'm not surprised the price has changed but what I was getting at is that they had absolutely no problem upgrading me to supported when I was already setup as unsupported. Maybe the difference is that they were more aware of the supported vs. unsupported mode at that time. After all they had been getting calls from DBSTalk members to get setup in unsupported mode then. I doubt they get those calls anymore.


----------



## DJSGP

RACJ2 said:


> Maybe you're keeping up with the changes that DIRECTV is making, about as well as you are keeping in touch with this forum. Only 7 of your posts back, which was over 3 years ago, you asked about PIP. Well, DIRECTV does have PIP on the new HR34 HMC DVR, in case you didn't know (At least now you might know in about 6 months or so).
> 
> I disagree about not feeling the love from DIRECTV. They recently gave me an HR34 for free. I was definitely feeling the love when that happened. And there is only 1 channel that I wish they would add the HD version of, so no major complaints here. Not that I wouldn't like all the channels to be in HD, then I might actually tune to them.


Happy the free HR34 made you happy. 
D is undoubtedly happy to have such a happy customer and the forum a  post happy contributor. 
I like DTV - been a customer since October 1994. (the first week it was available nationally). The 198 months as a customer served as the basis of MHO- not the number of postings.

Thanks for double checking the old post. btw - it was a suggestion, not a question - something worth noting in the future if you're open to a suggestion. And having the mix channels which is a cool concept still should be in HD.


----------



## PrinceLH

All I have to say is:

Walking Dead
Hell On Wheels
Breaking Bad

End of discussion!


----------



## RACJ2

DJSGP said:


> Happy the free HR34 made you happy.
> D is undoubtedly happy to have such a happy customer and the forum a post happy contributor.
> I like DTV - been a customer since October 1994. (the first week it was available nationally). The 198 months as a customer served as the basis of MHO- not the number of postings.
> 
> Thanks for double checking the old post. btw - it was a suggestion, not a question - something worth noting in the future if you're open to a suggestion. And having the mix channels which is a cool concept still should be in HD.


OK, I was exaggerating, it only took you 4 months to reply. I had to go back and read everything again, since I couldn't even recall what your post was about. Glad you have been a customer since day one, but if I wasn't "feeling the love", I would have switched a long time ago. And I do agree with you about the mix channel in HD. Although I didn't think the Hughs DVR was HD?


----------



## ccrowe3

I tried out a Hopper/Joey system and put my DirecTV account on suspension for a few months. I was not impressed. People in my house were fighting over tuners. To even have tv service for my daughters we had to give them a Joey (because Dish doesn't allow any other receivers in a Hopper installation), which was constantly telling the Hopper to record something. There was no way to disable the ability to record from the individual Joey either. With DirecTV I can just disable their networking and lock down certain ratings and channels so I can trust them with a remote.

Dish also seems to have very inconsistent quality. A couple of channels will look very good and then you'll watch a different channel and notice that it looks worse than anything HD ever looked on DirecTV. Then there are the part time sports channels that I grew to hate. Blockbuster is OK, but it is in no way a serious competitor to the Netflix subscription I have. Nothing was really gained there for me. Things are much better now that I'm back with DirecTV full time. The picture quality is better, the channel selection suits my needs better, and my 2TB eSATA drive makes the user partition on the Hopper look not so big... And, um, Sunday Ticket.  But Dish might be someone's cup of tea. I just know that it isn't mine. At all...


----------



## James Long

ccrowe3 said:


> There was no way to disable the ability to record from the individual Joey either. With DirecTV I can just disable their networking and lock down certain ratings and channels so I can trust them with a remote.


Preventing recording would be a interesting feature. It would help for those who are replacing receivers with Joeys and not wanting record features.

You can set channel locks and ratings locks on a per Joey basis. My wife's Joey has different channels locked out than my Hopper.

As far as the tuner limitations the discussions in the DISH forum recommend two hoppers in a setup. Many DBSTalk members have gone that way - although the lease upgrade for a second hopper makes it expensive.

Also, unannounced yet working for the past few months, Joeys can be connected to the Hopper via Ethernet --- no cable required. We even have at least one member who is using a USB Wi-Fi adapter on his Joey. While not "official" this is a good way of avoiding running RG-6 to a viewing location.


----------



## rmmccann

I don't think Dish is better than Directv, but I think better definitely varies from person to person with their needs.

The equipment for Dish definitely seems *neat*, however with Directv the HR34 is the same kind of beast and once the C31s become more common it's going to be a very similar system to what Dish offers with the Hopper/Joey combo. 

Personally, Dish's programming doesn't suit my needs. They may offer my HD LiLs in HD, but I watch a lot of premiums and other content that is either not available in HD on Dish, or simply not available at all.


----------



## mnassour

Since DirecTV has suddenly started getting it's HD act together (i.e., long-awaited channels appearing) and is finally pulling in some European programming (channel 259) I've given up the thought of even considering Dish. Unless you're 1) demanding international language programming or 2) simply hate sports, there's no reason at all to consider the company....especially given the way it digs in its heels when it comes to renegotiating contracts for channels.


----------



## RAD

mnassour said:


> Since DirecTV has suddenly started getting it's HD act together (i.e., long-awaited channels appearing) and is finally pulling in some European programming (channel 259) I've given up the thought of even considering Dish. Unless you're 1) demanding international language programming or 2) simply hate sports, there's no reason at all to consider the company....especially given the way it digs in its heels when it comes to renegotiating contracts for channels.


So you think Dish doesn't "dig their heels in" on contracts? Ask the folks that weren't happy that they lost a few Disney HD channels, AMC and the other Dolan channels, Nat Geo HD, Big Ten Network, etc. vs DIRECTV which IIRC has only dropped G4. IMHO I'd rather have a company that tries to keep existing channels avilable vs. one that drops existing channels and doesn't appear to be working to bring them back.


----------



## mdavej

When this thread started a few months ago, Dish was in the lead IMO, with more basic HD, the new Hopper and Auto-Hop. DirecTV was way behind in terms of basic HD. Fast forward to now, Dish has dropped several channels and gotten sued over auto-hop. And DirecTV has hung on to those same channels and added several more. So they've pulled ahead at the moment. Of course each consistently has advantages over the other (DirecTV sports content for example).

In the mean time I dropped them both and am watching this from the side lines. It will be interesting to see who's ahead a few years from now when I go shopping for a provider again. I think long term, Dish has a lot more liabilities and belligerent management that's going to have a negative impact over all.


----------



## mark40511

Regarding Dish VS Directv (SD), not HD -

I used to have Dish for two years or so before switching to Directv for about three or four years now, and the first thing I noticed is that Directv's SD channels looked better than those on Dish, not that I LOVE watching SD channels, but I did notice this. I'm only bringing this up because someone earlier in the thread (first page I think) had said the opposite! I disagree. Maybe I'm crazy!


----------



## mdavej

mark40511 said:


> Regarding Dish VS Directv (SD), not HD -
> 
> I used to have Dish for two years or so before switching to Directv for about three or four years now, and the first thing I noticed is that Directv's SD channels looked better than those on Dish, not that I LOVE watching SD channels, but I did notice this. I'm only bringing this up because someone earlier in the thread (first page I think) had said the opposite! I disagree. Maybe I'm crazy!


Hmm... I'm with the earlier poster. I found Dish SD much better than DirecTV. In my experience DirecTV has the worst SD I've ever seen. That includes cable, youtube and kinetoscope. Maybe there was a problem with your particular receiver.


----------



## lparsons21

mdavej said:


> Hmm... I'm with the earlier poster. I found Dish SD much better than DirecTV. In my experience DirecTV has the worst SD I've ever seen. That includes cable, youtube and kinetoscope. Maybe there was a problem with your particular receiver.


I'd agree that Dish's SD is better on the western arc, and much better on the eastern arc.

I've had both, have DirecTV now and actively avoid watching anything in SD with D*! Of course, sometimes I have to force myself 'cause something in SD will just grab my attention, but it doesn't happen often nor with regularity. :lol:


----------



## fleckrj

mdavej said:


> Hmm... I'm with the earlier poster. I found Dish SD much better than DirecTV. In my experience DirecTV has the worst SD I've ever seen. That includes cable, youtube and kinetoscope. Maybe there was a problem with your particular receiver.


I have not seen Dish SD lately, but DirecTV's SD is nowhere near what it used to be. When I first got DirecTV in 1999, no one had HD. DirecTV's SD picture was as good as DVD, slightly better than Dish, and far better than TWC. Since HD was rolled out and more and more SD channels were added, the SD picture quality on DirecTV has taken a nose dive. There are a few channels on DirecTV where the picture quality is decent, but most of them are worse than VHS.

That said, there are only two channels that I watch on DirecTV that are not in HD. Dish does not have one of those in HD, either, and my local TWC does not have one of those in SD or HD. Many channels I watch are not available on Dish, so for me, DirecTV is the only choice.


----------



## rapidturtle

I just came over from Dish last month, and as of now am a very happy D* customer. It just seems to me that Dish is always loosing a channel, and they tend to not get quite a few of them back. I am in the NY area, and they got rid of all of the NY RSN's while I was with them, with no reduction in my bill. The way they are treating the whole AMC deal was the final straw for me. We the customers are being used as pawns in their lawsuit, so I decided to switch then.


----------



## mdavej

rapidturtle said:


> I just came over from Dish last month, and as of now am a very happy D* customer. It just seems to me that Dish is always loosing a channel, and they tend to not get quite a few of them back. I am in the NY area, and they got rid of all of the NY RSN's while I was with them, with no reduction in my bill. The way they are treating the whole AMC deal was the final straw for me. We the customers are being used as pawns in their lawsuit, so I decided to switch then.


+1
Dropping AMC was the final straw for me too. But DirecTV is still missing too much content, so I had no choice but to go back to cable (my son loves G4, one of the few channels DirecTV has ever dropped entirely). I'm happy to see all the HD DirecTV has been adding lately, while Dish continues to drop channels.


----------



## tonyd79

A bit of a side track on SD. Directv's SD is generally poor. It is limited for bandwidth. However, the way to make some of it watchable for me is to use native, allow 480i and set the view to original format. That eliminates any scaling at all by the receiver, which does it very poorly. I've seen a big improvement when doing that. Still not good (and compared to fios, which I have, it is much worse) but for some watching, not revolting.


----------



## fleckrj

tonyd79 said:


> A bit of a side track on SD. Directv's SD is generally poor. It is limited for bandwidth. However, the way to make some of it watchable for me is to use native, allow 480i and set the view to original format. That eliminates any scaling at all by the receiver, which does it very poorly. I've seen a big improvement when doing that. Still not good (and compared to fios, which I have, it is much worse) but for some watching, not revolting.


I cannot compare to Fios, but I have had the same experience with my Panasonic TVs. For my TVs, scaling by the TV is better than scaling by the receiver; however, this is all dependant on the TV model. High end TVs generally do a better job of scaling than the DirecTV receiver does, but many entry-level HD TVs are even worse than the DirecTV receiver at scaling. In those situations, turning native off and only passing 1080i is better. Everyone needs to try it both ways with their equipment, and then decide what is best for them.


----------



## RAD

mdavej said:


> ...(my son loves G4, one of the few channels DirecTV has ever dropped entirely)...


Hope he'll be happy with the coming changes to G4, http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2012/09/07/g4-reboot-gq/


----------



## P Smith

mark40511 said:


> Regarding Dish VS Directv (SD), not HD -
> 
> I used to have Dish for two years or so before switching to Directv for about three or four years now, and the first thing I noticed is that Directv's SD channels looked better than those on Dish, not that I LOVE watching SD channels, but I did notice this. I'm only bringing this up because someone earlier in the thread (first page I think) had said the opposite! I disagree. Maybe I'm crazy!


Looks like you are the only one of such "crazy" and cannot see obvious difference.
I did measure one of the SD parameters on DTV muxes: a resolution, it was 352x480 max ( just for clear understanding - analog NTSC format is 740x525, its digital copy is 704x480 ), perhaps last time it become 240x480 (?); if you will add to that very limited bitrate allowed to SD channels ... You will get the current worst whatsoever picture quality. Just unwatchable ! And we all remember first 10 years of perfect SD PQ, before HD become a main trend and eat all bandwidth.

Could you imagine raising a volume of weep cream would make whole milk down to 1/2 or 1/4 of vital components while it will be selling as WHOLE MILK !


----------



## PrinceLH

That is an interesting observation. A good comparison, is watching Over the Air subchannels, for picture quality and comparing them to the Directv SD channels. It can be a striking comparison and bring you to an understanding about starved bitrate.


----------



## tonyd79

fleckrj said:


> I cannot compare to Fios, but I have had the same experience with my Panasonic TVs. For my TVs, scaling by the TV is better than scaling by the receiver; however, this is all dependant on the TV model. High end TVs generally do a better job of scaling than the DirecTV receiver does, but many entry-level HD TVs are even worse than the DirecTV receiver at scaling. In those situations, turning native off and only passing 1080i is better. Everyone needs to try it both ways with their equipment, and then decide what is best for them.


I guess the point I was trying to make (badly?) is that the 480i Native setting is not enough. It really needs to be original format or the receiver still does some scaling and makes a bit of a mess of it.


----------



## litex2x

Sunday Ticket and AMC HD are deal breakers so DirecTV wins for me. I came from U-verse to Time Warner Cable to DirecTV. DirecTV by far has the best HD quality of the three and has the most responsive interface for dvr and channel guide.


----------



## volkl

I've had both D* and E*. D* had wonderful SD picture quality in the beginning. Switched to E* and used a dishplayer 7200 to watch SD only -- such a great receiver, I believe the software for it was written by microsoft, too bad they stopped supporting it. Switched back to D* after they shut down my 7200, and upgraded to HD. IMO the SD picture quality was better with E*.

E* had a winner with the dishplayer, don't know why they stopped us from using them. Perhaps it had something to do with the Tivo patent dispute?


----------



## kevintheoman

Fox Sports San Diego is a definite deal-breaker for me. AMC as well to a much lesser extent. ABC Family not in HD is a factor too.

Though having G4 sure would be nice and I'd like to have the hub in HD. Obviously the other stuff outweighs these wants though.


----------



## mdavej

RAD said:


> Hope he'll be happy with the coming changes to G4, http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2012/09/07/g4-reboot-gq/


Thanks for the link. Looks like G4 is going from bad to worse and will soon become irrelevant at my house.


----------



## tonyd79

kevintheoman said:


> Fox Sports San Diego is a definite deal-breaker for me. AMC as well to a much lesser extent. ABC Family not in HD is a factor too.
> 
> Though having G4 sure would be nice and I'd like to have the hub in HD. Obviously the other stuff outweighs these wants though.


Actually, I have the HUB in HD and it isn't all that great. The do a slight zoom to the picture so that it is not full screen but not much is cut off vertically and the PQ is not all that. Their upscales are not very good.

I keep waiting for new or real HD programing and it just doesn't exist.


----------



## JcT21

lparsons21 said:


> I'd agree that Dish's SD is better on the western arc, and much better on the eastern arc.
> 
> I've had both, have DirecTV now and actively avoid watching anything in SD with D*! Of course, sometimes I have to force myself 'cause something in SD will just grab my attention, but it doesn't happen often nor with regularity. :lol:


id agree that dish sd is much better. i have directv but my parents & my sister have dish. based on my own visual inspection, i consider dish sd to be much better than directv's, especially when using an sd receiver on a hdtv. however i do consider directv hd to be somewhat better, but not to the point that it would be a deal stopper when considering subscribing to one or the other.


----------



## litex2x

I too wish DirecTV had G4. I actually really liked watching ninja warrior and campus pd. I can't believe its been so long since they removed it and haven't heard anything about it coming back.


----------



## JcT21

i miss TechTV


----------



## nmetro

mark40511 said:


> Regarding Dish VS Directv (SD), not HD -
> 
> I used to have Dish for two years or so before switching to Directv for about three or four years now, and the first thing I noticed is that Directv's SD channels looked better than those on Dish, not that I LOVE watching SD channels, but I did notice this. I'm only bringing this up because someone earlier in the thread (first page I think) had said the opposite! I disagree. Maybe I'm crazy!


Same here, but 14 years with DISH, the SD looks better on DirecTV. I have an HR34, that may be part of the reason. Also, I left DISH because of the number of law suits they are now involved in, dropping BTN was the last straw. The Disney and AMC dispute, plus pending issues with FOX, were warning signs of things going down hill. By the way, the installation was very painless, I received e-mail messages and phone calls along the way. I have not actually talked to a CSR at DirecTV yet, but I suspect is is not different then DISH; someone off shore who thinks they can speak English. One nice feature DISH did have was IM chat with a CSR; this helped a great deal with the language barrier. Maybe DirecTV would adopt something similar for their customers. all in all, three weeks and I am very pleased.


----------



## mark40511

mdavej said:


> Hmm... I'm with the earlier poster. I found Dish SD much better than DirecTV. In my experience DirecTV has the worst SD I've ever seen. That includes cable, youtube and kinetoscope. Maybe there was a problem with your particular receiver.


This was around 4 years ago when I switched from Dish to Directv. I remember that being the first thing I noticed *then*. Perhaps it's slowly taken a nosedive since then and I just haven't noticed it. But (4 or so years ago) Directv's SD was better than Dishs'....I guess that's not the case now. I don't watch very much SD, I do watch GSN sometimes and our Local CW is not in HD.


----------



## P Smith

mark40511 said:


> This was around 4 years ago when I switched from Dish to Directv. I remember that being the first thing I noticed *then*. Perhaps it's slowly taken a nosedive since then and I just haven't noticed it. But (4 or so years ago) Directv's SD was better than Dishs'....I guess that's not the case now. I don't watch very much SD, I do watch GSN sometimes and our Local CW is not in HD.


DTV has worst SD PQ in a world before time of your short 4 years memory .


----------



## wahooq

P Smith said:


> DTV has worst SD PQ in a world before time of your short 4 years memory .


Huh?


----------



## Shades228

P Smith said:


> DTV has worst SD PQ in a world before time of your short 4 years memory .


You're assuming this customer had SD on the MPEG 4 systems. Prior to the dual arcs people said DIRECTV had better SD than DISH.



wahooq said:


> Huh?


Don't feel bad people that have been here twice as long as I have still have issues deciphering some of his posts.


----------



## wahooq

ok then thought it was my cough medicine kicking in


----------



## sat4r

Would never switch from DTVto Dish after the CBand issue a couple of years ago which killed Cband and the old saying goes Friends dont let freinds have Dish.............


----------



## mark40511

P Smith said:


> DTV has worst SD PQ in a world before time of your short 4 years memory .


And you were afraid you couldn't find the right words for the next post : D


----------



## since 2/96

i didn't read thru 27 pages of posts but i'm certain i'm not the only one that will stick with D* no matter what when they're the sole provider of the ticket!


----------



## SlimyPizza

litex2x said:


> Sunday Ticket and AMC HD are deal breakers so DirecTV wins for me. I came from U-verse to Time Warner Cable to DirecTV. DirecTV by far has the best HD quality of the three and has the most responsive interface for dvr and channel guide.


Seriously? One of the things I've noticed with friends who have Dish is their lightening fast DVR response. The slowness of the DTV guide, the frustratingly long delays when encountering DTV Banners on a guide page, is lately getting to the point of being unacceptable... to me anyway.


----------



## litex2x

SlimyPizza said:
 

> Seriously? One of the things I've noticed with friends who have Dish is their lightening fast DVR response. The slowness of the DTV guide, the frustratingly long delays when encountering DTV Banners on a guide page, is lately getting to the point of being unacceptable... to me anyway.


I never had Dish but DTV's dvr whole home service is super fast compared to TWC and U-verse. It's more stable too. I have an HR34 and a bunch of H25s. There aren't really any delays with the guide either.


----------



## mark40511

now that I have whole home and two hr24's the response time is MUCH MUCH faster than the HR21's.........NO issue for me at all.

I hated the HR21's with a fiery red hot passion.


----------



## Curtis0620

mark40511 said:


> now that I have whole home and two hr24's the response time is MUCH MUCH faster than the HR21's.........NO issue for me at all.
> 
> I hated the HR21's with a fiery red hot passion.


I just got a HR34 & 2 HR24s with Whole home, it is awesome.


----------



## Chrismon1001

I've had dish and directv a long time now, and would not change back to dish network in its current state. In my personal comparisons directv is winning by far. My only complaint is still no full time fox soccer plus......


----------



## MarkN

P Smith said:


> DTV has worst SD PQ in a world before time of your short 4 years memory .


Who cares about SD??? Seriously!


----------



## bidger

MarkN said:


> Who cares about SD??? Seriously!


Exactly. I just removed the SD Channels from my Guide. Down-rezzing HD is a far bigger concern for me. Stuff liking that and flaunting auto ad skipping to the content providers. Replay TVs demise due to that must have eluded the DISH execs. Either that or they want to be bought out by DirecTV.


----------



## domingos35

bidger said:


> Exactly. I just removed the SD Channels from my Guide. Down-rezzing HD is a far bigger concern for me. Stuff liking that and flaunting auto ad skipping to the content providers. Replay TVs demise due to that must have eluded the DISH execs. Either that or they want to be bought out by DirecTV.


it doesnt auto skip


----------



## Diana C

domingos35 said:


> it doesnt auto skip


Dish's Hopper DVR does, for network programming recorded via their "Prime Time Any Time" feature. They (Dish) have been sued by the networks and are currently in a dispute with Gannett over the feature.


----------



## domingos35

Titan25 said:


> Dish's Hopper DVR does, for network programming recorded via their "Prime Time Any Time" feature. They (Dish) have been sued by the networks and are currently in a dispute with Gannett over the feature.


again it does not auto skip
the user has the option to turn it off or on


----------



## crawdad62

domingos35 said:


> again it does not auto skip
> the user has the option to turn it off or on


If it doesn't have it what's to turn off or on?


----------



## Diana C

domingos35 said:


> again it does not auto skip
> the user has the option to turn it off or on


Well, DUH!! A tv doesn't display video unless you turn it on too. If you turn on Auto-hop, which was on by default until a few weeks ago, the Hopper automatically skips commercials as described above.


----------



## Bambler

I've never been a dish customer, but there's the law of central tendency and complacency. No matter how good you think you are, this law will bring you back down. It cyclical, like everything else.


----------



## razorbackfan

I've had Dish for years and switched to Directv last year. I will never go back to Dish after the way their customer service treated me. I like having MLB and AMC.


----------



## mofun77

Here is my 2 cents.We recently put a new roof on our which required us to get a loan payment so looking to drop some monthly cash out go we got rid of directv and put up a nice antenna. It only took a few months to see the value of having a tv provider. We had Dish several years ago before going to Directv and thought that we would never go back to it after having a better experience with dtv. We just had our hopper installed and we are really happy with it. The picture quality is great the dvr features and quickness are awesome. I would not hesitate to recommend Dish to anyone.


----------



## JoeTheDragon

litex2x said:


> I too wish DirecTV had G4. I actually really liked watching ninja warrior and campus pd. I can't believe its been so long since they removed it and haven't heard anything about it coming back.


G4 is dead nice job there comcarp.

Now directv should only pickup the re band if they can get the missing CSN channels with it.


----------



## Jacob Braun

domingos35 said:


> again it does not auto skip
> the user has the option to turn it off or on


Yes it does, you're really just splitting hairs.


----------



## James Long

JBv said:


> Yes it does, you're really just splitting hairs.


We dealt with that nearly a month ago ... moving on ...


----------



## Jacob Braun

Ahaha I need to pay attention to this forum more. And just shut up. =P


----------



## PHL

Curtis0620 said:


> I just got a HR34 & 2 HR24s with Whole home, it is awesome.


Terrific. That's the system (more or less) that I'm going to have in a couple of weeks.


----------



## rfs12307

I just got Directv with the Genie (HR-34 and 2 C31s) last week, after 3 years with DISH. Picture quality overall average is definitely better with Directv. Also, my household's more frequently-watched networks are AMC, TCM, MSNBC, FX, HBO, HGTV, FOX and NBC.

The recent AMC mess, as well as both MSNBC and TCM not being offered in lower-tiered plans at DISH made the decision easier for me. Why is FOX News included in all plans at DISH, but you have to pay extra for MSNBC? Teabag much, Mr. DISH CEO? Both FOX News and MSNBC are offered in lower-tiered plans at Directv.


----------



## Richierich

MarkN said:


> Who cares about SD??? Seriously!


What is SD???

I only watch HD because I bought expensive HD TVs so I could watch the Best PQ with HD!!!

Can't stand it when I walk into a Bar or wherever and they still have SD, Unbelievable!!!

All of my HR24s (4 of them) work Fantastically and they are Fast and Responsive and the PQ is AWESOME so I wouldn't even think of Dish as I Love Sports!!!


----------



## jimcoe

I sell and install Dish and DTV. I switched from Dish to DTV in my home a couple of years ago so I could be of more help to my DTV customers. My family was mad at me until I switched back. I had always told people that the only reason to go with DTV was if you had to have the Sunday Ticket. Although I prefer Dish, I must admit it is primarily because it is what I am most experienced with and understand and I believe that is the reason for most people's preferences. Unless you have experienced both for a considerable length of time, I think it is hard to make an unbiased and objective comparison. The main reason I prefer Dish most consumers could care less about. Dish has always treated retailers and installers better. Without going into a lot of detail, DTV has cheated me out of a lot of money in the past. My recomendation to new customers is to go with a local retailer with a good reputation. Choosing a good retailer is much more important than deciding between Dish and DTV in the long run.


----------

