# FEATURE REQUEST: Native Rate OTA Signals



## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

Is it possible to offer native rate OTA signals through the 622, thereby bypassing the internal processor? I would highly prefer to get an unaltered local OTA signal (be it 720P or 1080i), and allow my signal processor to work with a 'virgin' signal instead oo having to work with one already altered by the Dish receiver. Thanks, guys!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Native Passthrough has been discussed before. Would be a nice feature enhancement indeed. Hopefully Dish will get around to it. I would also like to see this but for other reasons. Allow SD to be scalled using the TV rather than the DVR.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

Agreed, it makes a lot of sense to offer the option to the consumer, especially since so many HD devices offer superior processing capability to the Dish processor.

Is there a vehicle to get this idea in front of Dish?


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## olgeezer (Dec 5, 2003)

62Lincoln said:


> Is it possible to offer native rate OTA signals through the 622, thereby bypassing the internal processor? I would highly prefer to get an unaltered local OTA signal (be it 720P or 1080i), and allow my signal processor to work with a 'virgin' signal instead oo having to work with one already altered by the Dish receiver. Thanks, guys!


The HMDI should pass the uncompressed digital signal from the 622 to your display, whether OTA or sat.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

olgeezer said:


> The HMDI should pass the uncompressed digital signal from the 622 to your display, whether OTA or sat.


Would the same hold true for the current 811? Right now, I run analog out to the processor, but I can't think of any reason why I can't have the D/A conversion taking place in the processor (I have a FP CRT).


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

olgeezer said:


> The HMDI should pass the uncompressed digital signal from the 622 to your display, whether OTA or sat.


It cannot pass the signal straight from the SAT. The Sat signal is an encrypted MPEG2/MPEG4. The TV could not do anything with it. Straight passthru of an OTA signal would only work if the TV had a built in HD tuner (most don't).

What should be possible, though, is for the receiver to decode and send to the TV the video at the same line resolution it was originally encoded at (native passthru). The receiver would have to process the signal, but not apply some set default resolution to the output.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Makes sense LtMunst. 

This feature has been asked for with the 811, 921 and 942. Hopefully we can see it in the 622. I would even take the feature a step further and allow the user to select Native Pass through or a specific resoultion for a given input resoultion. Allowing the user to select Native for 480i, 1080i for 720p, etc. Something like that. That way you can dial it better to your HT configuration to maximize PQ.'


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

I know I'm repeating myself, but is there a way to put this request in front of someone at Dish that might be able to make it happen?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

It has been done in this thread. E* does read the forums from time to time.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

Well guys, anything new to report on this front? I scanned the 722 review, didn't see the feature in the description. Do those in the know think this feature will ever be added? I *really* have no desire to have my receiver attempting to manipulate the signal.


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## milan03 (Dec 24, 2007)

Well what I do for HD channels (especially OTA), is everytime i want to watch or DVR something that I really care about, I go to the system setup and change the output to 720p for ABC, FOX channels, or 1080i for CBS, NBC, etc... It does look better watching ABC on 720p. Last night they were showing Madagascar cartoon, and I switched to 720p, and enjoyed it much better.
I know its not the best solution, but hope it helps.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

You hit the nail on the head, it's not the best solution. I dearly wish Dish would implement this upgrade to provide a feature that we realistically should expect. It's frustrating that Dish would not have provided this feature on an HD receiver from the outset. It gets more frustrating that they apparently haven't added this feature as an upgrade to the 622 or 722.


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## rtk (Apr 15, 2007)

add me to the list of those wishing for have the option of choosing native resolution output or at least being able to manually select the output resolution of a given channel.


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## falcon241073 (Jun 3, 2007)

LtMunst said:


> It cannot pass the signal straight from the SAT. The Sat signal is an encrypted MPEG2/MPEG4. The TV could not do anything with it. Straight passthru of an OTA signal would only work if the TV had a built in HD tuner (most don't).
> 
> What should be possible, though, is for the receiver to decode and send to the TV the video at the same line resolution it was originally encoded at (native passthru). The receiver would have to process the signal, but not apply some set default resolution to the output.


My main grip about this subject is that the OTA signal is MUCH better if the antenna is connected directly to my TV instead of my 622. This is very irratating. I get pixels and dropped signal from the weak reception in the 622 and if I direct connect I get almost twice the signal on my TV but no ability to record. E* needs to work on this.


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## redbird (May 9, 2005)

What would work best for me is for my 622s have a setting for 1080p output. That way, I always see a progressive signal at the highest resolution being sent to my 1080p tvs without the delay of resolution switching when changing channels.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

redbird said:


> What would work best for me is for my 622s have a setting for 1080p output. That way, I always see a progressive signal at the highest resolution being sent to my 1080p tvs without the delay of resolution switching when changing channels.


That wouldn't help the delay. In fact it would probably increase it... since right now there are only 720p and 1080i being broadcast, any 1080p output from the receiver would ensure that every channel had to be processed... Right now at least you could set the output to match the channel's resolution. If you set it for 1080p it wouldn't match anything, so there would always be processing... and some slight delay.


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## redbird (May 9, 2005)

HDMe said:


> That wouldn't help the delay.


Sure it would, The delay is the TV switching resolutions. The 622 doesn't currently have any delay switching from 720p to 1080i channels but my TV goes nuts for a second or two when it's input resolution changes.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

redbird said:


> Sure it would, The delay is the TV switching resolutions. The 622 doesn't currently have any delay switching from 720p to 1080i channels but my TV goes nuts for a second or two when it's input resolution changes.


I guess I must be confused at what you are saying, because since there is no native output right now, why would the resolution be changing unless you are doing it manually? And if you are doing it manually, how would that be any different with 1080p since that would not be native passthrough?


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## Calvin386 (May 23, 2007)

I have a Sony 720p LCD. I am still torn on whether to have my 622 set to 720p or 1080i resolution output. Right now I have it set to 1080i. I think it's really 6 one way, half a dozen the other.

Falcon I have noticed that OTA picture is a little better when it is ran directly to my LCD rather than the 622. Sony has a very good processor and it would be nice to have native passthrough so my LCD could do it.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

redbird said:


> What would work best for me is for my 622s have a setting for 1080p output.


I think that would require a much more robust processing capability than the 622 or 722 possess. My point is that I don't want the 622 to process the signal - I have a processor specifically dedicated to that task. I want the 622 to pass on the signal unmolested.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

falcon241073 said:


> My main grip about this subject is that the OTA signal is MUCH better if the antenna is connected directly to my TV instead of my 622. This is very irratating. I get pixels and dropped signal from the weak reception in the 622 and if I direct connect I get almost twice the signal on my TV but no ability to record. E* needs to work on this.


We can see no difference in PQ when viewing HD OTA via 622 or the TV's tuner.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

HDMe said:


> That wouldn't help the delay. In fact it would probably increase it... since right now there are only 720p and 1080i being broadcast, any 1080p output from the receiver would ensure that every channel had to be processed... Right now at least you could set the output to match the channel's resolution. If you set it for 1080p it wouldn't match anything, so there would always be processing... and some slight delay.


I agree completely. I have a good quality 1080p TV and have the output of my 622 set to 1080i. My TV Pio Elite PO-150FD) will do a better job of de-interlacing the 1080i then the 622 would.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> My TV Pio Elite PO-150FD) will do a better job of de-interlacing the 1080i then the 622 would.


That gets to the heart of the matter - the 622/722 are *receivers*, not processors. We would be paying significantly higher $ if the 622/722 truly had first rate processing capability. Giving us the native rate pass through would allow our equipment to do its respective jobs.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I think others have posted similar to my thoughts before... but I'm hoping for native passthrough as well as a configuration option that allows custom conversion.

Native would mean SD-> 480i/p, 720p HD -> 720p, and 1080i HD -> 1080i respective outputs for native output of the "original" signal.

In my case, I've found my HDTV will accept 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i signals... BUT it performs best with 480i/p or 1080i. I have to configure my TV completely differently for a 720p native signal in terms of centering the image on the screen and contrast and such.. so I, and others, would like an option for output that allows us to set SD to 480i/p and then all HD to either 720p or 1080i to match out optimal HDTV performance. That way we could get better SD resolution by letting our TVs do the conversion, but still up/downconvert the HD to what our TV wants.


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## ArtV (Jun 10, 2006)

I would be happy if it could memorize the resolution setting like it does for the screen format mode. That way you could set one resolution for HD and one for SD. That seems simple enough and should be a minimum. The 622's video processor is horrible. Come to think of it, I wonder if it is deinterlacing 720P properly? Native rate would be wonderful as I would love to offload the video processing to my processor and don't feel that changing resolution based on the channel is a reasonable option.

ArtV


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

Hopefully if enough interest continues to percolate on this topic, it might interest someone at Dish enough to pursue it.


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## theoak (Nov 5, 2007)

So, if I understand this thread correctly, if you "set" the 6/722 to output 1080i for example, all HD gets upconverted to 1080i even if the source is 720P? In other words, that setting is hard set regardless of the source's original format.

Therefore, to restate, assuming the 722 is set to send 1080i, if I am watching a local OTA program, originally sent as 720P, the 722 will upconvert that to 1080i before sending that to the TV?

I don't have a 722, hence the questions.

(I do have a HD TV with a HD tuner and absolutely love OTA HD. I think it is neat how a program is 720P and then the commercials are done 1080i or 480i and the TV zooms along without a hitch ... pretty cool.)

Thanks ...


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

theoak said:


> (I do have a HD TV with a HD tuner and absolutely love OTA HD. I think it is neat how a program is 720P and then the commercials are done 1080i or 480i and the TV zooms along without a hitch ... pretty cool.)
> 
> Thanks ...


This is not the case. Each channel uses ONLY one standard. The commercials they show may be upconverted 480i and thus look different, but each channel not only don't but cannot use both 1080i and 720p without the extremely expensive duplication of the entire HD stream.

Everything on ESPNHD is 720p, it never changes. HDNET is 1080i, it never changes.

My local NBC is ALWAYS 1080i even if the material is SD, it's just upconverted to 1080i with the resultant pixel duplication.

Local FOX is always 720p, they never switch it off even for SD programming, it would require two audio/video streams in the station and double their equipment cost.

My 622 is set to 1080i, so everything on component and HDMI outputs is fed to my HDTV as 1080i, regardless of whether the station is 1080i, 720p or 480p. Composite and S-video outputs are always 480i.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

theoak said:


> So, if I understand this thread correctly, if you "set" the 6/722 to output 1080i for example, all HD gets upconverted to 1080i even if the source is 720P? In other words, that setting is hard set regardless of the source's original format.
> 
> Therefore, to restate, assuming the 722 is set to send 1080i, if I am watching a local OTA program, originally sent as 720P, the 722 will upconvert that to 1080i before sending that to the TV?
> 
> I don't have a 722, hence the questions.


You understand the issue with the 622 correctly. If we had native rate pass through, 720P stations would go to the processor or TV at 720P, and 1080i stations would likewise go through at 1080i. As things currently stand, we have to choose one output (720P or 1080i) for all HD, and rely on the (weak) chip in the 622 to process the signal. What we want is signal pass through, so that our superior processors (either stand alone or in people's pj/plasma/etc.) can do the signal heavy lifting.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

figure out a way that dish can make money on this "feature" and maybe they'll be more apt to address it.

as it stands it's just a bunch of nerds whining.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

Speak for yourself. We've been encouraged to request features in which we would be interested in seeing added. That's what this thread is about.


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## Mr.72 (Feb 2, 2007)

we've been "requesting" this "feature" for a very long time now and what do they add? things we have been clamoring for like dish on demand...


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

Time to resurrect this thread, and ask: has been any word on getting this feature on _any_ Dish HD receiver?


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

pretty silent on this feature. I thought about this feature a while back and started to wonder if the need for the feature has decreased as more and more HD content is made available. I know for me it has and given what I have read about the side effects I would most likely disable it. 

Given the increased HD content.. What makes you still feel this feature would be nice?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I have a new reason to want it myself...

When I replaced my failing CRT with a new DLP (now I have HDMI!)... my new TV has a couple of modes with far less overscan than my CRT had.

But I noticed something interesting... There is a "Just scan" mode for 1080i or 1080p signals that minimizes the overscan, but it is still there a little.

For 720p signals, however, the "Just scan" mode is not available... only 16x9... and it appears to me that a 720p signal gets displayed on my monitor with less overscan than a 1080i/p signal.

So... for the handful of channels that do broadcast in 720p (mostly Disney/ABC/ESPN, but also FOX and MyNetwork)... I might like to see those in native 720p rather than converting to 1080i and then cutting off some of the extreme edges.

I've learned to live with the 480i SD signals being upconverted so I don't care as much about that as I used to... but to be able to let 720p and 1080i go through natively would be nice.


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## 62Lincoln (Jan 25, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> Given the increased HD content.. What makes you still feel this feature would be nice?


I have a much more capable processor than the Dish receiver, so in my case I would highly prefer to get the 720p channels in native rate to allow my processor to do the work, versus feeding it the altered 1080i signal from the Dish receiver.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I currently have Direct which does have Native. I turned it off because all too many times the HDMI handshaking as resolutions changed resulted in no picture at all. This handshaking issue is a problem for many TVs and HTRs, but some don't have the issue. It is very equipment specific.


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