# Projectors



## Greg Alsobrook

I'm helping my mom put together a home theater setup, and need a little advice. We're looking at projectors, but I know little to nothing about them... so I'd like a little input.

1. Brand/Model recommendations
2. What is an acceptable lumen rating? (definitely want bright and vibrant!)
3. Screen recommendations
4. What's important to look for in a screen?
5. Any other tips... 

Thanks in advance for any input!


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## Greg Alsobrook

Also.. It may be beneficial to note that the room is an "add-on" over a garage, and only has one small window that can be totally blocked... and there won't be any light from any other rooms... So the room will be very dark...


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## Richard King

My projector is no longer made, but it is a 1000 lumen and works quite well on my home made screen. My room has little in the way of light control and is fairly bright in the daytime, but the projector still works very nicely. My screen was built using a plastic material that I got at Lowes or HD (Parkland plastics http://www.parklandplastics.com/polywall.shtml). I built a frame out of 2x2's. You can see it here: http://www.pbase.com/rking401/my_home_theatre&page=all


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## spartanstew

Greg,

Your mothers budget (screen and projector) is the most imortant piece of information. I can recommend a nice set up if I have that figure.


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## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> Greg,
> 
> Your mothers budget (screen and projector) is the most imortant piece of information. I can recommend a nice set up if I have that figure.


Absolutely true.

The good news is that projectors (even pretty good ones), now cost 1/3 or less of what they did just 3-4 years ago....and with even better specs.


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## Zepes

+1 on the budget requirement


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## Greg Alsobrook

Sorry guys... Probably should have included that... 

I'd say somewhere around 3k....


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## BattleZone

Other important pieces of information:

- Screen size desired (diagonal inches) and aspect ratio?
- Distance from projector to screen?
- Type of screen? (This runs from projecting right on the wall to a pull-down screen to a motorized screen to a fixed screen.)

Is the $3,000 budget all-inclusive (projector, mount, screen, cabling, installation), or just for the projector itself?

Again, you can go as simple as buying a projector, setting in on a pile of boxes in the back of the room, and running an HDMI cable across the floor (this allows you to spend all the money on the projector), all the way to a fully integrated install ($$$$), or somewhere in between.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

http://www.projectorreviews.com/

http://www.projectorscreenstore.com/


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## spartanstew

The top projector in that price range (by far) is the Panasonic PT-AE3000U. You can get it for $2500, which will leave you $500 for a screen. If you want to stretch the budget slightly, I'd go for a Carada Brilliant White screen. If you don't, then look to a DIY option.

If they want to increase the budget to $5000, they could consider the JVC DLA-RS10, but I wouldn't look at anything else.


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## Greg Alsobrook

BattleZone said:


> Other important pieces of information:
> 
> - Screen size desired (diagonal inches) and aspect ratio?
> - Distance from projector to screen?
> - Type of screen? (This runs from projecting right on the wall to a pull-down screen to a motorized screen to a fixed screen.)
> 
> Is the $3,000 budget all-inclusive (projector, mount, screen, cabling, installation), or just for the projector itself?


-Not sure what we can get away with on screen size. Viewing distance is only around 20 feet, so we don't want to go _too_ big... What do you guys think? What is the "typical" aspect ratio for a setup like this? 1.78 to 1?

-Distance from projector to screen will be about 15-18 feet...

-I'm not set on this... I'm open for suggestions... I would rather spend a little more money on a nicer screen than money for motorization... A fixed screen with a custom frame around it would probably be the best solution.

The 3000 budget is projector, mount, and screen... Cabling and installation is taken care of...


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## Greg Alsobrook

spartanstew said:


> The top projector in that price range (by far) is the Panasonic PT-AE3000U. You can get it for $2500, which will leave you $500 for a screen. If you want to stretch the budget slightly, I'd go for a Carada Brilliant White screen. If you don't, then look to a DIY option.
> 
> If they want to increase the budget to $5000, they could consider the JVC DLA-RS10, but I wouldn't look at anything else.


The Panasonic is the one I kept coming back to when doing my research... It has good reviews and seemed like the best bang for the buck... And I think you just confirmed that...

Any other screens to consider?

And any reason to do Brilliant White over the "classic cinema" or the "high contrast grey"? Definitely want the brightest and most vibrant...

Thanks!


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## spartanstew

Greg Alsobrook said:


> -Not sure what we can get away with on screen size. Viewing distance is only around 20 feet, so we don't want to go _too_ big... What do you guys think? What is the "typical" aspect ratio for a setup like this? 1.78 to 1?
> 
> -Distance from projector to screen will be about 15-18 feet...
> 
> -I'm not set on this... I'm open for suggestions... I would rather spend a little more money on a nicer screen than money for motorization... A fixed screen with a custom frame around it would probably be the best solution.
> 
> The 3000 budget is projector, mount, and screen... Cabling and installation is taken care of...


You can go pretty big from 20' away. I sit 13' away from my 126" screen (16:9). The standard aspect ratio is 16:9 (1.78:1), but that's starting to change and is largely dependent upon what you normally watch. If it's nothing buy HDTV, then 16:9 is fine. If it's a lot of DVD's or Blu Ray's, then 2.35:1 (or 2.40:1) makes more sense. It makes even more sense with the Panny 3000 since you can change aspect ratios with the touch of a button. I'd strongly consider a scope screen and then just watch 16:9 material with black bars on each side.

From 15' - 18' you can have a screen from 75" - 180" (16:9 diagonal), so it's pretty flexible. Unless you have to have a motorized screen, fixed frame is usually the best option. Mounts aren't that expensive, but if possible, you could also shelf mount the projector on the back wall (that's how my Panny 700 is mounted). All you have to do is spend $20 to build a shelf.



Greg Alsobrook said:


> The Panasonic is the one I kept coming back to when doing my research... It has good reviews and seemed like the best bang for the buck... And I think you just confirmed that...
> 
> Any other screens to consider?
> 
> And any reason to do Brilliant White over the "classic cinema" or the "high contrast grey"? Definitely want the brightest and most vibrant...
> 
> Thanks!


A grey screen will increase the blacks, but it will sacrifice the brightness. with a throw of more than 15', I think you'll want the added "pop" that a BW screen will give you (higher gain screen = higher brightness). The blacks won't be as black as they would be on a classic (or grey), but the added contrast perception will more than make up for it IMO.


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## Richard King

Greg...
My seating area is about 14' from the screen. The screen is 98" diagonal (perfect for the 4' high material I mentioned above). My projector is an Optoma HD7300. I started with an HD7100, but had 3 of them go bad so Optoma sent me a 7300 system to replace the third one. The 7300 is a 7100 with their external switcher. I'm at 4,067 hours on the lamp on this projector. I also built a DIY ceiling mount that you can see in the pictures that I posted at the site above. I used an old speaker wall mount that I had around here and a piece of Plexiglas.


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## Greg Alsobrook

Very sweet setup Richard! Thanks for sharing!


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## Greg Alsobrook

spartanstew said:


> You can go pretty big from 20' away. I sit 13' away from my 126" screen (16:9). The standard aspect ratio is 16:9 (1.78:1), but that's starting to change and is largely dependent upon what you normally watch. If it's nothing buy HDTV, then 16:9 is fine. If it's a lot of DVD's or Blu Ray's, then 2.35:1 (or 2.40:1) makes more sense. It makes even more sense with the Panny 3000 since you can change aspect ratios with the touch of a button. I'd strongly consider a scope screen and then just watch 16:9 material with black bars on each side.
> 
> From 15' - 18' you can have a screen from 75" - 180" (16:9 diagonal), so it's pretty flexible. Unless you have to have a motorized screen, fixed frame is usually the best option. Mounts aren't that expensive, but if possible, you could also shelf mount the projector on the back wall (that's how my Panny 700 is mounted). All you have to do is spend $20 to build a shelf.
> 
> A grey screen will increase the blacks, but it will sacrifice the brightness. with a throw of more than 15', I think you'll want the added "pop" that a BW screen will give you (higher gain screen = higher brightness). The blacks won't be as black as they would be on a classic (or grey), but the added contrast perception will more than make up for it IMO.


Awesome info spartanstew! You guys are helping a ton so far! Let me take some of this and run with it...

It probably won't be a lot of DVDs or Blurays... Just a couple a month (if that)... Do you think I'm better off still going with a scope screen?

I think the 106" that you recommended would do just fine. Let's say I've decided to go with that size. Are there any other brands to look at? Or is the Carada the one to go with?

The projector could be moved in closer so that the throw isn't ~15ft.+... Since that's the case, would you recommend moving closer and going with the cinema (or gray) screen? Or staying back and getting the higher gain? Also, I know I said I wanted "bright and vibrant"... But I don't want _too_ bright... I guess you can always tone it down if it's too bright... but not the other way around...

What is the recommended height of the screen?

What are the viewing angles like? Or does it depend on the screen? There may be a couch off to the side and a pool table on the other side of the room... (it's a long room)... Which leads me to my last 2 questions (for tonight :grin ... Do you think there will be angle issue from the side couch or from the pool table? Will it be viewable at all from the pool table with the lights on?

Sorry for the 20 questions... I'm also attaching my 30 second sketch of the room (don't make fun )

Thanks again guys!!!


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## spartanstew

Greg Alsobrook said:


> It probably won't be a lot of DVDs or Blurays... Just a couple a month (if that)... Do you think I'm better off still going with a scope screen?


Probably not. However, keep in mind that if they ever do start watching DVD/BD's, the image will be smaller on a 16:9 screen. Also, remember that if you have a 2.35 screen, you can still have the same 16:9 image size on it. In other words, a 16:9 screen that's 106" will be 52" high and 92" wide. You can have a scope screen that's also 52" high, but is 124" wide. When watching 16:9 material, the image will be the exact same size as it would be if you had a 106" screen. However, if watching a scope movie (even a scope movie on D*), the image can be zoomed out to fill the entire width of the screen creating a bigger image.



Greg Alsobrook said:


> I think the 106" that you recommended would do just fine. Let's say I've decided to go with that size. Are there any other brands to look at? Or is the Carada the one to go with?


Actually, I didn't recommend a 106" screen. From 20' away, I think 106" will be too small. If you'll notice on the following chart, the benefit of 1080p just starts to become noticeable on a 106" screen from 20' away. To get the full benefit of 1080p from 20' away, you need a screen that's about 130"










That being said, you need to get a size that they'll be comfortable with. In terms of screens, there's many different brands, but Carada is generally considered the best "bang for your buck" screen. Most of the other brands will cost a lot more.



Greg Alsobrook said:


> The projector could be moved in closer so that the throw isn't ~15ft.+... Since that's the case, would you recommend moving closer and going with the cinema (or gray) screen? Or staying back and getting the higher gain? Also, I know I said I wanted "bright and vibrant"... But I don't want _too_ bright... I guess you can always tone it down if it's too bright... but not the other way around...


I wouldn't move it much closer than 15' or so. You typically want the projector to be at the middle throw range for a given image size. For a 106" screen, the throw range is 10.5' - 21'. 15' is about right in the middle. I'm also not really a fan of gray screens. You can also call Carada and tell them all your details (projector, screen size, throw distance, etc.) and they'll advise you of what screen to get. They've probabably tested out the Panny 3000 on several different screens.



Greg Alsobrook said:


> What is the recommended height of the screen?


When seated, your eyes should be between 1/3 - 1/2 way up the screen. So, looking at a 106" screen again, it's 52" high. The 1/3 mark would be at 17" or so. If your eyes, when seated are 36" high, then the screen would need to be about 19" off the floor, not including the border. (36-17=19). If the chairs recline, the screen can be a bit higher.



Greg Alsobrook said:


> What are the viewing angles like? Or does it depend on the screen? There may be a couch off to the side and a pool table on the other side of the room... (it's a long room)... Which leads me to my last 2 questions (for tonight :grin ... Do you think there will be angle issue from the side couch or from the pool table? Will it be viewable at all from the pool table with the lights on?
> 
> Sorry for the 20 questions... I'm also attaching my 30 second sketch of the room (don't make fun )
> 
> Thanks again guys!!!


Well, I'm not sure about viewing angles, as I don't even recall coming across that scenario before. The side of the couch shouldn't be a problem at all, but it's possible the pool table might be. As far as the lights being on, any projector will suffer when there's light in the room. They're designed to be viewed in as dark a room as possible. If you do plan on watching it occasionally with lights on then you definitely want the higher gain screen to increase the light output.


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## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> Actually, I didn't recommend a 106" screen. From 20' away, I think 106" will be too small.


In my case, I have stadium seating (two rows with a raised back row).

My front row eye distance (eye to screen) is 14 feet 2 inches.

My rear row eye distance is 17 feet 8 inches.

My 106" screen is perfect for this configuration.

I had the chance to try a smaller screen and a larger one - neither was appropriate. The smaller one diminished the depth of view and picture detail. The larger one dimished picture quality and caused a "disproportionate" view of many scenes.

Richard King's post example of his setup is equally configured correctly for his 14 foot viewing, and reinforces these same points.

At 15 feet, a 106" screen is likely optimum, although a 98" screen would work.

From 20 feet, a 116" diagonal screen would be best.

You are absolutely correct that distance makes a difference. We engaged 3 different audio/video experts first to solicit their opinions, and then I also did my research as well. All 4 of us came to the same 106" size conclusion.

In the end, its important to note that most "experts" will tell you that these are "guidelines" and/or "recommendations" based on years of viewing feedback, but they are not hard "rules".


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## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In my case, I have stadium seating (two rows with a raised back row).
> 
> My front row eye distance (eye to screen) is 14 feet 2 inches.
> 
> My rear row eye distance is 17 feet 8 inches.
> 
> My 106" screen is perfect for this configuration.


I, too, have stadium seating with similar distances. It's more complicated when you have 2 rows. In which row do you normally sit? I would think probably the front, which means 106" is perfect (for you) from 14' back, but it would not be perfect from 17.5' back. It's a compromise. You can't have the perfect screen size for both rows.

My 126" screen is perfect for me from 13', but it's too small from my second row at 18.5'. That's why I sit in the front and guests sit in the back.

If I didn't have the front row and always sat at he 18.5' distance, my screen would be at least 140". When watching movies, I like my entire field of vision to be filled with picture, just like when I'm at a real theater.

But either way, we agree that 106" is too small for 20'.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> At 15 feet, a 106" screen is likely optimum, although a 98" screen would work.
> 
> From 20 feet, a 116" diagonal screen would be best.


Actually, both of those statements can't be true. If a 106" screen is optimum for 15', then a 140" screen would be optimum at 20' based on ratios: (20X106)/15 = 141.

If you're increasing your viewing distance by 33% (15' to 20'), increasing the screen size by less than 10% (106" to 116") will not produce the same visual experience.

Additionally, problems with various screen sizes (smaller screen diminished detail, larger screen diminished quality) is usually a result of the particular projector and/or screen being used and not a limitation of screen sizes in general.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> In the end, its important to note that most "experts" will tell you that these are "guidelines" and/or "recommendations" based on years of viewing feedback, but they are not hard "rules".


Formulas such as 1.5 X screen height and such are in fact guidelines and recommendations. However, the chart posted above is not a recommendation by experts. It's the resolution that the human eye (based on 20/20 vision) can perceive versus screen sizes. The science behind it can be found HERE


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## FogCutter

What a great thread! 
For my contribution I can say that the Panny AX-200 projector is rock solid, 2K lumens, nice throw ratio, beautiful performer. I have complete light control, the projector is 18.5 feet from the wall and shows a great 194" diagonal image.

I don't like screens -- in the early days aspect ratios kept changing, and unless brightness is a big issue, projecting onto a white wall does very well. I played with various paints, but a good acrylic white with an eggshell finish looks good.

A buddy of mine spent $25K on a system, Runco projector, exotic speakers, the works, but the $2K screen ruins it. At the time the experts were recommending a 100-110" screen, and that's what he did. 

A 100" screen is just big television, you have to press above 120" to become THEATER.
Personally I strive for floor to ceiling, wall to wall images. Push things until one dimension or the other runs out of room, or the image falls apart -- then tweak from there. 

Part of my dislike of screens is that they look like big naked holes in the wall when the projector is off, a bare wall is just part of the room. I really think the cost of a screen is better spent upstream on the projector or the image source. 

Greg, I hope your mom enjoys her system -- this is a terrific time to buy. Your $3K system will outperform anything on the market 5-6 years ago costing $15K on up.

Have fun.


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## spartanstew

FogCutter said:


> What a great thread!
> For my contribution I can say that the Panny AX-200 projector is rock solid, 2K lumens, nice throw ratio, beautiful performer. I have complete light control, the projector is 18.5 feet from the wall and shows a great 194" diagonal image.
> 
> I don't like screens -- in the early days aspect ratios kept changing, and unless brightness is a big issue, projecting onto a white wall does very well. I played with various paints, but a good acrylic white with an eggshell finish looks good.
> 
> A buddy of mine spent $25K on a system, Runco projector, exotic speakers, the works, but the $2K screen ruins it. At the time the experts were recommending a 100-110" screen, and that's what he did.
> 
> A 100" screen is just big television, you have to press above 120" to become THEATER.
> Personally I strive for floor to ceiling, wall to wall images. Push things until one dimension or the other runs out of room, or the image falls apart -- then tweak from there.
> 
> Part of my dislike of screens is that they look like big naked holes in the wall when the projector is off, a bare wall is just part of the room. I really think the cost of a screen is better spent upstream on the projector or the image source.
> 
> Greg, I hope your mom enjoys her system -- this is a terrific time to buy. Your $3K system will outperform anything on the market 5-6 years ago costing $15K on up.
> 
> Have fun.


Many people use walls for screens (there's various paint formulas to accomplish this), but I would never project onto a wall without a border. A nice black border and a dark wall everywhere else (and a black ceiling), really changes the picture for the better. It noticeably improves the contrast and "pop" of the image.

Just remember if using a painted wall, that the wall needs to be very smooth and it's much more susceptible to hot-spotting


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## FogCutter

spartanstew,

Thanks.

After lots of experimentation I found a textured finish that works very well, lends a rich, film like image. There is a commercial product called Goo, but I didn't go for it, choosing to experiment instead. 

Any surface that is shiny is a bad choice -- hot spots, sometimes even glare. Acrylic doesn't yellow like latex does. After 2 years latex needs to be repainted. So far acrylic just keeps going. 

The new projectors have such terrific black levels and contrast that I don't see much benefit from the gray tints some screen preps offer.

Larger images are inherently less bright, so superb light control is vital. With my installation if I need to bring the lights up for viewing, I can shrink the image to bring up the brightness. 

Using a border is a great idea -- I don't have one at the moment, but I've seen them used to good effect.


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## Richard King

> Richard King's post example of his setup is equally configured correctly for his 14 foot viewing, and reinforces these same points.


Well, I sure hope so!!! I was very scientific in my screen design. The material I used came in 4'x8' sheets, meaning my screen had to be 4' high and the other dimension just worked around that.  I am also constrained somewhat in that the screen is mounted above my fireplace.

By the way, this is a great thread.


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## Richard King

The people who started the company that I used to work for (Electrosonic Systems) wrote the book that had been used for many years in the corporate presentation industry for design of presentation rooms. The various "optimum" dimensions are published in this book. I have it around here somewhere, but have no idea where. If I find it I'll scan the appropriate pages and post them.


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## Aztec Pilot

I used www.paintonscreen.com and purchased a gallon from them. I painted a 136" screen on a very nicely finished wall. It looks great. I sit about 15' from the screen.

I stongly considered the Panny, but went with the Epson 6500UB. I t had, may still a $500 rebate. It tied with the panny in the best 1080p projector in the mid price range.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/1080p-projector/index.php

So I had a $200 gallon of paint. paid $2700 for the projector less $500 rebate and $200 MS Live cashback, thats $2,000. I bought a 25' HDMI fro around $40 from bluejeanscable.

So I am in for $2,240. AND I LOVE IT!!!


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## Aztec Pilot

OhYeah, The Epson is plenty bright. I have it down to theater 1 at night. during the day, with no direct light and all dark colors in the room, it is still good. though I turn it up to the "living room", to make it great. "dynamic" must be for trade show demo's!! As it is really bright.


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## FogCutter

Aztec Pilot,
Nicely done! 
Enjoy.


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## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> I, too, have stadium seating with similar distances. It's more complicated when you have 2 rows. In which row do you normally sit? I would think probably the front, which means 106" is perfect (for you) from 14' back, but it would not be perfect from 17.5' back. It's a compromise. You can't have the perfect screen size for both rows.


Correct....so the target is the midpoint of the distance.

The most important factoid is that there *is no firm requirement *- it comes down to *personal preferences *of viewing. Having read dozens and dozens of articles on this topic, it became clear that it all comes down to a viewers taste. It's similar to where one wants to sit in a commercial theater - some folks love it up front, most are in the middle and up to get the full screen experience.

An example of where this can differ:


> My 126" screen is perfect for me from 13', but it's too small from my second row at 18.5'.


I was at 2 home theater "parties" with about 25 people attending each at 2 different locations having that exact same distance-from-screen-viewing configuration. The consensus was that for the front row, the screen was defintely way too big at that range (not one person wanted to sit or stay in that first row in either theater), but for the back row, just about everyone said it was great. Again, it comes down to personal taste, but a consensus by 50 was at least some kind of indicator at that time last year.


> But either way, we agree that 106" is too small for 20'.


Yup


> Additionally, problems with various screen sizes (smaller screen diminished detail, larger screen diminished quality) is usually a result of the particular projector and/or screen being used and not a limitation of screen sizes in general.


Agreed.


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## hdtvfan0001

FogCutter said:


> Using a border is a great idea -- I don't have one at the moment, but I've seen them used to good effect.


Many of the screen manufacturers (Dalite, Stewart, and others) now offer framed screens using a black fabric coating covering the metal frame itself. Some offer the ability to purchase just the frame itself.

This helps define crisp edges, given properly projector alignment on the screen, as well as significantly reduce tertiary side reflections directly next to the screen.


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## FogCutter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The most important factoid is that there *is no firm requirement *- it comes down to *personal preferences *of viewing.


Amen. I've seen several people follow the 'guidelines' to the letter, sometimes at great effort because of their room layout, only to be disappointed with the outcome.

Instead of a stadium we have a one level pit that seats 8, with 2 outboard seats in the back.

Experiment, experiment, experiment, and don't be afraid to break the rules. If it looks good, do it!


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## FogCutter

hdtvfan0001 said:


> (A black border) . . . helps define crisp edges, given properly projector alignment on the screen, as well as significantly reduce tertiary side reflections directly next to the screen.


Have you seen installations with black ceilings/flooring next to the projection area? I like what it does to the image, but the Boss (my wife) will have nothing to do with it, and I agree from a decorating standpoint it doesn't go with our room.


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## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I was at 2 home theater "parties" with about 25 people attending each at 2 different locations having that exact same distance-from-screen-viewing configuration. The consensus was that for the front row, the screen was defintely way too big at that range (not one person wanted to sit or stay in that first row in either theater), but for the back row, just about everyone said it was great. Again, it comes down to personal taste, but a consensus by 50 was at least some kind of indicator at that time last year.


As we agreed, it's probably a limitation of the equipment that was used and not the screen/distance ratio.

Have you ever sat 6' away from a 60" display (or 2.5' away from a 20" monitor)? It's the same ratio as 13' away from a 126" display. I wouldn't sit that close for TV or everyday viewing, but if I'm going to watch a movie (which is usually what projectors and screens are for), I want to be immersed in the action.


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## hdtvfan0001

FogCutter said:


> Have you seen installations with black ceilings/flooring next to the projection area? I like what it does to the image, but the Boss (my wife) will have nothing to do with it, and I agree from a decorating standpoint it doesn't go with our room.


I have seen that at 2 locations. All in all, I have visited over 50 dedicate Home Theater sites and seen alot.

My personal taste is not to have black ceilings...but I've seen it done. I think you can accomplish the effect of darkening the room without turning it into a cave, but that's just one person's view. 

In the end...a good frame around a screen that is dark can do wonders to the screen viewing itself.



spartanstew said:


> As we agreed, it's probably a limitation of the equipment that was used and not the screen/distance ratio.
> 
> Have you ever sat 6' away from a 60" display (or 2.5' away from a 20" monitor)? It's the same ratio as 13' away from a 126" display. I wouldn't sit that close for TV or everyday viewing, but if I'm going to watch a movie (which is usually what projectors and screens are for), I want to be immersed in the action.


Nothing wrong with that whatsoever if you like it. Too close for my taste.

Using a higher end projector (which means that even at today's much lower prices you're talking 10K - 15K+), any image from 6 feet to 24 feet should be great to view movies.

Even after 3 years now with a $15K projector, I am still somewhat amazed at just how fantastic HD, Blu Ray, and other quality images can look on a screen 8-9 feet diagonal or greater.

It leads to getting spoiled in a hurry.


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## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I have seen that at 2 locations. All in all, I have visited over 50 dedicate Home Theater sites and seen alot.
> 
> My personal taste is not to have black ceilings...but I've seen it done. I think you can accomplish the effect of darkening the room without turning it into a cave, but that's just one person's view.


I think I've only been in two home theaters that didn't have a black (or dark, or milano blue) ceiling. Not living rooms, theaters.

A dark ceiling WILL have an effect on the image (positively). Heck, lights are turned off 95% of the time in a theater anyway, so aesthetics don't really come into play, but the light reflections off a white (or light colored ceiling) are indisputable in how they can wash out an image. If I put a projector in the living room or some type of media room, I might not have a black ceiling (although it would be dark), but I can't think of a single reason not to have a black ceiling in a home theater. Contrary to popular myths, a black ceiling also makes the room appear to be bigger.

So, on top of not wanting a large enough screen to simulate the movie experience AND compromising the viewing experience of every seat (instead of just one row), you also don't believe in using room colors that optimize the picture quality? Man, hdtvfan, next, you're going to tell me you don't believe in bass traps or acoustic wall treatments either.


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## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Using a higher end projector (which means that even at today's much lower prices you're talking 10K - 15K+), any image from 6 feet to 24 feet should be great to view movies.


Totally dependent upon the seating distance. A 6' image from 20' certainly wouldn't be great for movie viewing.


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## mechman

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Awesome info spartanstew! You guys are helping a ton so far! Let me take some of this and run with it...
> 
> It probably won't be a lot of DVDs or Blurays... Just a couple a month (if that)... Do you think I'm better off still going with a scope screen?
> 
> I think the 106" that you recommended would do just fine. Let's say I've decided to go with that size. Are there any other brands to look at? Or is the Carada the one to go with?
> 
> The projector could be moved in closer so that the throw isn't ~15ft.+... Since that's the case, would you recommend moving closer and going with the cinema (or gray) screen? Or staying back and getting the higher gain? Also, I know I said I wanted "bright and vibrant"... But I don't want _too_ bright... I guess you can always tone it down if it's too bright... but not the other way around...
> 
> What is the recommended height of the screen?
> 
> What are the viewing angles like? Or does it depend on the screen? There may be a couch off to the side and a pool table on the other side of the room... (it's a long room)... Which leads me to my last 2 questions (for tonight :grin ... Do you think there will be angle issue from the side couch or from the pool table? Will it be viewable at all from the pool table with the lights on?
> 
> Sorry for the 20 questions... I'm also attaching my 30 second sketch of the room (don't make fun )
> 
> Thanks again guys!!!


Out of curiosity, what did you go with Greg?


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## FogCutter

A black ceiling is the next thing on my to-do list. I'm running out of other tweaks. 
One thing I'd like you experimental types to consider -- floor to ceiling / wall to wall projection offers something that you can't get in a movie theater -- the sense of immersion. Feeling like you can walk into the scene is awesome, a sensation that screens and borders and smaller projection sizes take away.

So the next time you're playing with an installation, leave some time to pump the image onto a pristine white wall and stretch it until you hit the ceiling or an adjoining wall, then stand back and see what you think.

Done well it's breathtaking.


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## Greg Alsobrook

mechman said:


> Out of curiosity, what did you go with Greg?


After presenting all of the info to my mom, she ultimately decided to go with a 72" Samsung DLP. She got a really great deal on it (it's a discontinued model), so I guess I can't blame her.

The carpet should be going into the room soon... Then we'll need a stand and we'll be all set. I'll post some pics after we're done assembling the room. Hopefully it'll be within the next 30 days or so...


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## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> After presenting all of the info to my mom, she ultimately decided to go with a 72" Samsung DLP. She got a really great deal on it (it's a discontinued model), so I guess I can't blame her.
> 
> The carpet should be going into the room soon... Then we'll need a stand and we'll be all set. I'll post some pics after we're done assembling the room. Hopefully it'll be within the next 30 days or so...


Cool....a monster size one....bet she will really be enjoying it!!!


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## mechman

Nice. Samsung DLP? I thought Mitsubishi was the only company still making DLPs? 

I don't think I could ever down size though. Currently I have a 100" setup and I'm moving up to a 106" soon. Once you've seen a projector set up right, you'll be hooked for life! I have a 32" lcd in the living room that I never watch. I've been contemplating going larger to give the pj a rest.


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## Greg Alsobrook

mechman said:


> Nice. Samsung DLP? I thought Mitsubishi was the only company still making DLPs?
> 
> I don't think I could ever down size though. Currently I have a 100" setup and I'm moving up to a 106" soon. Once you've seen a projector set up right, you'll be hooked for life! I have a 32" lcd in the living room that I never watch. I've been contemplating going larger to give the pj a rest.


No, they are not currently making any... but, there are still some new ones out there to be had... Just gotta look in the right place... We ended up getting this one from 6th Ave Electronics... They made us a great deal (even better than the advertised price)... and threw in an extended warranty, free bulb replacements, and free white glove shipping...

Sounds like you have quite a nice setup there... In my next home, I hope to have something similar... Just no room for it in the current house...


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## spartanstew

6th ave certainly has some great deals. I just bought a Mits 65837 from them this past weekend (should be delivered next Monday) for under $1600 TOTAL. I love DLP's.


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