# Help! HR-22 just turned into a brick



## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

today my receiver would not restart...only get 14.824 error message...tried rebooting 2 dozen times...wont go into diagnostics mode. As other posts say I see my hard drive is toast which totally pisses me off due to the weekend and only one receiver in the house. Other than calling DTV what options do I have as far as internal and external drive replacements? Sure seems like I am seeing alot of HDD failure posts here all of a sudden.


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Yep, hard drive.

If you have an external handy, throw it on there, it will probably reformat it, and you should be good to go.

As for a service call, I believe they are doing them tomorrow even though it is a holiday.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Just to make sure, unplug your receiver for 30 minutes and then plug it back in. 

If your harddrive has failed, you can look at a harddrive replacement. However, if your receiver is leased, you cannot replace the internal drive. In that case, you would need to look at an external drive setup. Some of the more popular setups are to use the EVDS drives from Western Digital with a ANTEC MX enclosure. Check the forum for compatible setups. Once you have the setup, hook it up to your DVR and power it on.

Obviously, you can also look at having DirecTV replace the receiver, which they will do at no cost (except for maybe a $20 shipping/handling fee) and with no contract extension.

- Merg


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## Yoda-DBSguy (Nov 4, 2006)

Beckzilla said:


> today my receiver would not restart...only get 14.824 error message...tried rebooting 2 dozen times...wont go into diagnostics mode. As other posts say I see my hard drive is toast which totally pisses me off due to the weekend and only one receiver in the house. Other than calling DTV what options do I have as far as internal and external drive replacements? Sure seems like I am seeing alot of HDD failure posts here all of a sudden.


I'm assuming this is a leased box; if so I'd say get a replacement sent from DirecTV; but make sure they do NOT extend your contract for doing so since it is a leased box and ultimately their responsibility to make sure you are provided service.

You could buy any external eSATA drive and conenct; however I'd recommend only looking at one with active cooling (a fan used to vent the hard drive enclosure) other wise you will end up with a prematurly failed drive. You'll see alot of people here and on the net learned this the hard way. There is a reason that passive drive eclosures like WD's worldbook or seagates are cheap! A chaep price equivilates to cheap performance & cheap duration in terms of longevity.

At any rate since all of your data is already lost; I'd opt for DirecTV to replace your unit as you may be lucky enough to et a new HR24 (but it's the luck of the draw as to what they send out).


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Don't you know DVRs are supposed to brick just before a three day weekend? That's part of the plan. !devil12:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The Merg said:


> However, if your receiver is leased, you cannot replace the internal drive.


Don't you mean "may not" replace the internal drive? 

Rich


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. I left it unplugged overnight and still nothing. Am thinking real hard on just purchasing a HR-24 as this HR-22 raises my blood pressure every time I use it due to the REALLY REALLY slow tuner. What brands of external drives are compatible? Esata or ?


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Beckzilla said:


> Thanks for the replies. I left it unplugged overnight and still nothing. Am thinking real hard on just purchasing a HR-24 as this HR-22 raises my blood pressure every time I use it due to the REALLY REALLY slow tuner. What brands of external drives are compatible? Esata or ?


eSata. But if you're gonna stick with the HR22, why not just let DirecTV replace it free, instead of shelling out $$$ for a drive? If the goal is more storage, you can always add the external to the replacement box.

Also, you may get lucky and get a replacement HR20 (slightly faster) or HR24. If they send a tech out to replace it, s/he may have a 24 in the truck.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Don't you know DVRs are supposed to brick just before a three day weekend? That's part of the plan. !devil12:


Yea, the timing could not have been worse. I am missing the US Nationals which I wait for every year.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Steve said:


> eSata. But if you're gonna stick with the HR22, why not just let DirecTV replace it free, instead of shelling out $$$ for a drive? If the goal is more storage, you can always add the external to the replacement box.
> 
> Also, you may get lucky and get a replacement HR20 (slightly faster) or HR24. If they send a tech out to replace it, s/he may have a 24 in the truck.


From what I have read before it does not look like I get to pick my replacement receiver. I would love to replace my HR-22 with a HR-24. I have a spare Seagate Esata external. I am going to try hooking it up to get me back in business. Will reply my progress as it happens


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> From what I have read before it does not look like I get to pick my replacement receiver. I would love to replace my HR-22 with a HR-24. I have a spare Seagate Esata external. I am going to try hooking it up to get me back in business. Will reply my progress as it happens


What you might want to consider doing is using the eSATA drive until your replacement DVR comes. That way you can watch the U.S. Nationals while DirecTV ships out a new DVR or schedules you for a tech visit. Just be aware that anything you save on the eSATA will not play on the new DVR as the recordings are receiver specific.

- Merg


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Beckzilla said:


> From what I have read before it does not look like I get to pick my replacement receiver. I would love to replace my HR-22 with a HR-24 [...]


True if they overnight you a new one. If they send a tech out, the tech can give you whatever they want from the truck's inventory. I'm not sure what criteria they use to send a tech out or ship you one, tho.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

It does not look like my older Seagate Free Agent will work. I dont have the right Esata cable to fit the HR-22. Any ideas. Looks like a road trip to Best Buy.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

I believe the Seagate Free Agent drives are USB, not eSATA. 

- Merg


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Help. just bought a WD external drive from Best Buy and the unit stiill wont boot up. keep getting the same error message. Is hooked up to Sata port on both ends. Bought WD My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 and eSata DVR expander model #WDBABT0010HBK-NESN


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Take a look at this thread that discusses what eSATA setups work with the HR2x's and how to get them going...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=142735

- Merg


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## Yoda-DBSguy (Nov 4, 2006)

Beckzilla said:


> Help. just bought a WD external drive from Best Buy and the unit stiill wont boot up. keep getting the same error message. Is hooked up to Sata port on both ends. Bought WD My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 and eSata DVR expander model #WDBABT0010HBK-NESN


1. Connect and turn on the external drive. Wait a few mins for it to boot up and begin runing.

2. Redbutton reset or unplug the power; then plug it back in and let it boot up from the external drive....

3. report back as it should format and begin using the external drive....


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

It's *SATA *or *eSATA *...

Anyway, seems your HR22's SATA channel fried.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

P Smith said:


> It's *SATA *or *eSATA *... On the back of my unit it says Sata not eSata
> 
> Anyway, seems your HR22's SATA channel fried.


On the back of my unit it says Sata not eSata


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Tried many more times to no avail. I have to be honest here as I am not impressed with how long these units seem to last and to say that is the way it is now is not acceptable. Way too much poor quality equipment out there. Quality control has gone the way of the dinosaurs.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

P Smith said:


> It's *SATA *or *eSATA *...
> 
> Anyway, seems your HR22's SATA channel fried.


 Beautiful. Not only the hard drive but the SATA channel gone too.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Beautiful. Not only the hard drive but the SATA channel gone too.


Did you check to see if the drive you bought is considered to be compatible with the HR2x's? The link I posted lists those drives that work with the HR2x's. Deviating from that list will probably not go so well.

- Merg


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The Merg said:


> I believe the Seagate Free Agent drives are USB, not eSATA.
> 
> - Merg


The FAPs did have SATA drives in them originally and could be used as eSATAs. Now all the Free Agent drives seem to be only USB. Seagate still sells the eSATA FAPs on their online store. Very rarely.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Help. just bought a WD external drive from Best Buy and the unit stiill wont boot up. keep getting the same error message. Is hooked up to Sata port on both ends. Bought WD My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 and eSata DVR expander model #WDBABT0010HBK-NESN


The My Book series is not designed for working on DVRs and rarely do.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Beautiful. Not only the hard drive but the SATA channel gone too.


Here's what really works: A WD EVDS HDD in an Antec MX-1 enclosure or a WD EVDS HDD in a Thermaltake docking station. I prefer the docking station. Here are the links to the setup I use. No tools required, just plug the HDD into the docking station and it will work with any HR.

The *link* for the HDD.

The *link* for the docking station.

The WD EVDS comes in several sizes. I use the 2TB drives.

Rich


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

The Merg said:


> I believe the Seagate Free Agent drives are USB, not eSATA.
> 
> - Merg


Mine is eSata


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Here's what really works: A WD EVDS HDD in an Antec MX-1 enclosure or a WD EVDS HDD in a Thermaltake docking station. I prefer the docking station. Here are the links to the setup I use. No tools required, just plug the HDD into the docking station and it will work with any HR.
> 
> The *link* for the HDD.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the info. I will look into this. Do you notice any performance improvements with this drive?


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Decided to order a new HR-24 from Solid Signal. Should get tomorrow hopefully. Hope this one works better and lasts longer than that POS HR-22.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You can't see the difference by naked eyes, it will be totally subjective.

Unfortunately we don't have access to internal statistics data to make such conclusion.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Thanks for the info. I will look into this. Do you notice any performance improvements with this drive?


Over the FAP? The external is a lot cooler and it runs well. The FAPs just ran too hot. Seagate seems to have solved that problem with the Xtremes, but I'd rather have the Thermaltake + HDD setup. Less hassle.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Decided to order a new HR-24 from Solid Signal. Should get tomorrow hopefully. Hope this one works better and lasts longer than that POS HR-22.


Oh, you're gonna see a big difference!

Rich


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Got the HR-24 today and hooked it up and WOW what a speed difference!!! Anybody here that says there is minimal difference is totally out to lunch. I am now again a happy customer. I cant get that POS HR-22 sent back to DTV fast enough. Thanks to everybody for their help! One thing that did not quite figure though is when I activated it and told the CSR that i had purchased it from Solid Signal he changed my status from leased to owned. I just played dumb and went along with it. Was that the right thing to do or not?


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Over the FAP? The external is a lot cooler and it runs well. The FAPs just ran too hot. Seagate seems to have solved that problem with the Xtremes, but I'd rather have the Thermaltake + HDD setup. Less hassle.
> 
> Rich


 I meant the difference from the internal drive. Would it still be worth it to add your external drive setup as opposed to the internal drive on the HR-24?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> I meant the difference from the internal drive. Would it still be worth it to add your external drive setup as opposed to the internal drive on the HR-24?


You shouldn't notice any discernable difference between an internal or external drive. The advantage of the external drive is that you can go up to 2TB from the 500GB that is installed in the HR24.

- Merg


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> I meant the difference from the internal drive. Would it still be worth it to add your external drive setup as opposed to the internal drive on the HR-24?


I haven't seen any reason to put an internal drive in my 24. The external setup I have is working fine and the 24 runs between 104 and 108 degrees with the external setup attached.

I have noticed in the 20-700s that they do run better with a large internal rather than an external. Might be my imagination, but it sure seems as if they are running better. A subjective thing? I don't think so. I do have the same external setup on one of my leased 20-700s and that runs well. The last time I checked the temp of the 20-700 it was 118 degrees, well below the normal running temp of a 20-700, and it's the top HR of three stacked HRs.

The only thing I can really say is that it would be cheaper to put an internal drive in your 24. You wouldn't have to pay for the docking station.

Time wise, there is no comparison. It takes longer to get the HDD and docking station out of the shipping boxes than it does to install them. I don't know how long it will take to put an internal drive in a 24.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Got the HR-24 today and hooked it up and WOW what a speed difference!!! *Anybody here that says there is minimal difference is totally out to lunch*. I am now again a happy customer. I cant get that POS HR-22 sent back to DTV fast enough. Thanks to everybody for their help! One thing that did not quite figure though is when I activated it and told the CSR that i had purchased it from Solid Signal he changed my status from leased to owned. I just played dumb and went along with it. Was that the right thing to do or not?


In bold above, your statement seems to compare the 22 to the 24. Your opinion of the speed of the 22 (or the lack thereof) has been documented many times. When we say that there is a minimal difference between 24s and another HR, we are talking about 20-700s. There really isn't much difference in speed between a 24 and a 20-700. The 24 is a tad quicker.

Rich


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Here's what really works: A WD EVDS HDD in an Antec MX-1 enclosure or a WD EVDS HDD in a Thermaltake docking station. I prefer the docking station. Here are the links to the setup I use. No tools required, just plug the HDD into the docking station and it will work with any HR.
> 
> The *link* for the HDD.
> 
> ...


I've been holding off replacing my FAP750 (on my HR20-700), since it failed about two months ago. Your post pushed me over the edge and based on your recommendation, I ordered the 2 TB and Docking Station (and a 6' shielded cable, in case I need it), from the link (Amazon), you gave.

I've never done a docking station thing, so if you have any tips that I should know before it arrives, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the heads up.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hasan said:


> I've been holding off replacing my FAP750 (on my HR20-700), since it failed about two months ago. Your post pushed me over the edge and based on your recommendation, I ordered the 2 TB and Docking Station (and a 6' shielded cable, in case I need it), from the link (Amazon), you gave.
> 
> I've never done a docking station thing, so if you have any tips that I should know before it arrives, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the heads up.


I'm not gonna answer this post. Hasan and I talked by PM and I answered his questions.

Rich


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

hasan said:


> I've been holding off replacing my FAP750 (on my HR20-700), since it failed about two months ago. Your post pushed me over the edge and based on your recommendation, I ordered the 2 TB and Docking Station (and a 6' shielded cable, in case I need it), from the link (Amazon), you gave.
> 
> I've never done a docking station thing, so if you have any tips that I should know before it arrives, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the heads up.


 After reading some of Rich's posts it is clear that his experience speaks for itself. Looks like I too will take you up on your external drive recommendation. Thanks


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Just ordered Rich's setup.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Got the HR-24 today and hooked it up and WOW what a speed difference!!! Anybody here that says there is minimal difference is totally out to lunch. I am now again a happy customer. I cant get that POS HR-22 sent back to DTV fast enough. Thanks to everybody for their help! One thing that did not quite figure though is when I activated it and told the CSR that i had purchased it from Solid Signal he changed my status from leased to owned. I just played dumb and went along with it. Was that the right thing to do or not?


 Anybody want to chime in on the lease/own situation? I'm curious.


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Help. just bought a WD external drive from Best Buy and the unit stiill wont boot up. keep getting the same error message. Is hooked up to Sata port on both ends. Bought WD My Book AV 1TB USB 2.0 and eSata DVR expander model #WDBABT0010HBK-NESN


 Just an FYI...I hooked up this drive to my new HR-24 and it recognized it, formatted it and it works perfectly. Just wanted to try it before I take it back to Best Buy.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Anybody want to chime in on the lease/own situation? I'm curious.


An owned receiver can be deactivated and reactivated at any time. A lease, when deactivated, needs to be sent back to DirecTV. If you wanted to replace the internal HDD on an owned receiver, it is allowable. Doing so on a leased receiver is a violation of the TOS. In these areas, it is a benefit to have an owned receiver.

However, having an owned receiver now is not the best thing when it comes to getting a replacement due to a receiver failing. If a leased receiver fails, DirecTV replaces it at no cost (except for shipping) and there is no commitment extension. If an owned receiver fails, the current policy is that you need to lease a new receiver. This means that you _might_ be charged up to $199 for the replacement, plus since you are activating a new receiver your commitment is reset to 2 years. The exception to this is if you have the Protection Plan. In that case, an owned receiver is replaced at no cost, there is no commitment extension, and the replacement is flagged as owned.

- Merg


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

It is my understanding they were only charging $20 and a commitment extension for replacement of an owned receiver without the protection plan as of recent.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

matt1124 said:


> It is my understanding they were only charging $20 and a commitment extension for replacement of an owned receiver without the protection plan as of recent.


I believe that is mostly what has been happening, although they can technically charge the full up-front lease fee.

- Merg


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Just ordered Rich's setup.


Sure hope it works. Someone's bound to get a bad HDD or dock. 

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Anybody want to chime in on the lease/own situation? I'm curious.


I'd just keep quiet about it and see what happens. As long as your bill shows it as owned, or whatever they call it, I wouldn't worry about it.

Rich


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I'd just keep quiet about it and see what happens. As long as your bill shows it as owned, or whatever they call it, I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> Rich


 That is what I plan on doing. Thanks


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Sure hope it works. Someone's bound to get a bad HDD or dock.
> 
> Rich


 Hope you did not jinx me. I installed the new HDD into an Antec MX-1 I had new in the box and set it up last Friday. Yesterday I left to go to the Notre Dame game about noon and when I got home and turned on the TV the picture was frozen on ESPN's Ohio State game and I could not get it to do anything with the remote. Had to restart the receiver. Any insight on this situation?


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

The Merg said:


> An owned receiver can be deactivated and reactivated at any time. A lease, when deactivated, needs to be sent back to DirecTV. If you wanted to replace the internal HDD on an owned receiver, it is allowable. Doing so on a leased receiver is a violation of the TOS. In these areas, it is a benefit to have an owned receiver.
> 
> However, having an owned receiver now is not the best thing when it comes to getting a replacement due to a receiver failing. If a leased receiver fails, DirecTV replaces it at no cost (except for shipping) and there is no commitment extension. If an owned receiver fails, the current policy is that you need to lease a new receiver. This means that you _might_ be charged up to $199 for the replacement, plus since you are activating a new receiver your commitment is reset to 2 years. The exception to this is if you have the Protection Plan. In that case, an owned receiver is replaced at no cost, there is no commitment extension, and the replacement is flagged as owned.
> 
> - Merg


 I plan on keeping the protection plan for this purpose. Can I safely assume under these circumstances that they will have to replace my HR-24 with another HR-24 if it arises since my HR-24 is owned?


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Beckzilla said:


> Beautiful. Not only the hard drive but the SATA channel gone too.


 Not necessarily. If the interal drive is completely NON-FUNCTIONAL you won't be able to boot from eSata. You have one other option but if I suggest it about 97 duplicate messages will suddenly appear from the self-appointed DirecTV police.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Hope you did not jinx me. I installed the new HDD into an Antec MX-1 I had new in the box and set it up last Friday. Yesterday I left to go to the Notre Dame game about noon and when I got home and turned on the TV the picture was frozen on ESPN's Ohio State game and I could not get it to do anything with the remote. Had to restart the receiver. Any insight on this situation?


Could you refresh my memory? What HDD did you put in the MX-1?

Rich


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Could you refresh my memory? What HDD did you put in the MX-1?
> 
> Rich


Western Digital 2 TB AV-GP SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EVDS


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Western Digital 2 TB AV-GP SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD20EVDS


That's the right drive for the DVRs. And I gather you put that on your 24? New MX-1 right out of the box. I've had one or two MX-1s right out of the box that didn't work at all.

Could be one of three things. The least likely would be, in my mind, the 24. That leaves the HDD, which could be bad or the MX-1. I've only purchased three EVDS drives and all three have worked perfectly, but that doesn't mean anything. You could get a bad HDD, no matter what the model is. I'd try the docking station with the HDD before I returned the HDD. If you buy them at amazon.com, you can easily return them as not being compatible with your equipment. The docking station *link*.

I've got two of them with 2TB EVDS drives on them and they work very well. You can get them cheaper on other sites such as NewEgg, but returning them is easier on Amazon. No restocking fees. No hassle.

Rich


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> Not necessarily. If the interal drive is completely NON-FUNCTIONAL you won't be able to boot from eSata. You have one other option but if I suggest it about 97 duplicate messages will suddenly appear from the self-appointed DirecTV police.


!rolling

Really living up to your little Grampy description, aren't we? :lol:

- Merg


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## Beckzilla (Oct 29, 2007)

rich584 said:


> That's the right drive for the DVRs. And I gather you put that on your 24? New MX-1 right out of the box. I've had one or two MX-1s right out of the box that didn't work at all.
> 
> Could be one of three things. The least likely would be, in my mind, the 24. That leaves the HDD, which could be bad or the MX-1. I've only purchased three EVDS drives and all three have worked perfectly, but that doesn't mean anything. You could get a bad HDD, no matter what the model is. I'd try the docking station with the HDD before I returned the HDD. If you buy them at amazon.com, you can easily return them as not being compatible with your equipment. The docking station *link*.
> 
> ...


 Sounds good to me. The docking station just arrived so i will try it. I have had no problems since the Saturday episode so who knows for sure. What can go wrong with the MX-1? I checked the fan and it is running. Could the internal port connector go funky?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beckzilla said:


> Sounds good to me. The docking station just arrived so i will try it. I have had no problems since the Saturday episode so who knows for sure. What can go wrong with the MX-1? I checked the fan and it is running. Could the internal port connector go funky?


I dunno. I'm more of a "user" than a tech. If it works I use it. As I said, I've had two that didn't work, the fan ran in both, but that's easy to explain. Something must be wrong with the connectors, but I have no idea how to check and for the price they're just throwaways to me if they don't work.

My 24 does freezeup from time to time, usually when it starts up. When that happens, I just hit the Skip button and it runs. I've never had the problem you had with the football game.

The HDD will probably work with the docking station and you'll be OK.

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> Not necessarily. * If the interal drive is completely NON-FUNCTIONAL you won't be able to boot from eSata*. You have one other option but if I suggest it about 97 duplicate messages will suddenly appear from the self-appointed DirecTV police.


Do we know for sure that this applies to all the HRs or just the HR20's?

I did a search and I can't find anything that says that it applies across the board. Especially considering the HR24-500 actually has two SATA channels.

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Do we know for sure that this applies to all the HRs or just the HR20's?
> 
> I did a search and I can't find anything that says that it applies across the board. Especially considering the HR24-500 actually has two SATA channels.
> 
> Mike


*Trailblazer's* tried it with the 20-100s and I've tried it with the 20-700s. Aside from that, I haven't seen any posts about any other HRs not working with just an external attached.

I have no idea what two SATA channels means or what it does for the 24s, could you explain?

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> *Trailblazer's* tried it with the 20-100s and I've tried it with the 20-700s. Aside from that, I haven't seen any posts about any other HRs not working with just an external attached.
> 
> I have no idea what two SATA channels means or what it does for the 24s, could you explain?
> 
> Rich


Without a port multiplier, a SATA channel can connect to only one drive. One port one drive, no daisy chain like IDE or SCSI.

The HR21-23 have the BCM7401 chip which has only one SATA channel. This is why the standalone TiVo boxes with the BCM7401 use a port multiplier to allow connection of more than one drive.

In the HR24-500, the NXP chip has two SATA channels so it can potentially connect to two drives at the same time. However, the BCM7038 in the HR20's also have dual SATA channels. Now that I think about it, that may have something to with the external drive not working when the internal is disconnected.

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Without a port multiplier, a SATA channel can connect to only one drive. One port one drive, no daisy chain like IDE or SCSI.
> 
> The HR21-23 have the BCM7401 chip which has only one SATA channel. This is why the standalone TiVo boxes with the BCM7401 use a port multiplier to allow connection of more than one drive.
> 
> ...


What, specifically, is a SATA channel?

Rich


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Two pair of wires: Tx and Rx, differential signals.

EDIT: as usual Wiki could help anytime - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Two pair of wires: Tx and Rx, differential signals.


Let's see if I can be a little more helpful than that. 



rich584 said:


> What, specifically, is a SATA channel?
> 
> Rich


From our perspective it's just the port that you plug the drive into.

In a simple view, each port is a SATA channel so in order for the processor to access more then one SATA drive it has to have more then one SATA channel. That's all internal circuitry.

In the HR21-HR23 the internal and external connectors seem to share the same port. However, if you look at the first looks internal pictures of the HR20 you'll see two separate SATA ports (flat red cables). Each is a separate SATA channel.

http://www.dbstalk.com/historical/hr20/images/Small/11-inside.jpg

However, AFAIK, the HR20 has never taken advantage of the BCM7038's dual SATA channels to access two drives at the same time. The HR21-HR23's CMB7401 only had one SATA channel so it's limited to accessing one at a time.

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Let's see if I can be a little more helpful than that.


I can't help but wonder if he thinks that kind of answer is funny or he's completely oblivious to someone's request for help in understanding.



> From our perspective it's just the port that you plug the drive into.
> 
> In a simple view, each port is a SATA channel so in order for the processor to access more then one SATA drive it has to have more then one SATA channel. That's all internal circuitry.


But that one SATA port is all I've ever seen. I do know that the TiVos could handle two HDDs on brackets internally with jumper wires between them. They would add both HDDs to the total capacity. I that what you're thinking of? I do realize that the SD TiVos didn't use SATA drives.



> In the HR21-HR23 the internal and external connectors seem to share the same port. However, if you look at the first looks internal pictures of the HR20 you'll see two separate SATA ports (flat red cables). Each is a separate SATA channel.


I've been inside several HR20-700s and don't remember seeing two SATA ports, but I'll look again.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Let's see if I can be a little more helpful than that.
> 
> From our perspective it's just the port that you plug the drive into.
> 
> ...


Checked out that picture and I still don't remember seeing two red wires as shown. Probably a short term memory loss. I'll have to pop the cover off one of my owned 20-700s and look.

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I can't help but wonder if he thinks that kind of answer is funny or he's completely oblivious to someone's request for help in understanding.
> 
> But that one SATA port is all I've ever seen. I do know that the TiVos could handle two HDDs on brackets internally with jumper wires between them. They would add both HDDs to the total capacity. I that what you're thinking of? I do realize that the SD TiVos didn't use SATA drives.


The fact that the SD TiVo's use IDE drives is why they can be daisy chained; that is to say a single ribbon cable with connectors for two drives and one jumpered as the master and the other as the slave.

SATA doesn't work that way. It's one drive per controller and each controller has one port. Now there can be a port multiplier attached to the single controller which allows multiple SATA devices to access the one controller.

http://www.serialata.org/technology/port_multipliers.asp



rich584 said:


> I've been inside several HR20-700s and don't remember seeing two SATA ports, but I'll look again.
> 
> Rich


I've never opened my because it was a lease but it's possible that later versions might not have the exact same internal layout...I guess. :grin:

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> The fact that the SD TiVo's use IDE drives is why they can be daisy chained; that is to say a single ribbon cable with connectors for two drives and one jumpered as the master and the other as the slave.
> 
> SATA doesn't work that way. It's one drive per controller and each controller has one port. Now there can be a port multiplier attached to the single controller which allows multiple SATA devices to access the one controller.
> 
> http://www.serialata.org/technology/port_multipliers.asp


OK I read that link. Thanx, that cleared things up a little. Are the PMs usable with the HRs? Could you put two or three 2TB drives on one HR? I know we've been told that 2TBs is the limit, but if the PMs work...?



> I've never opened my because it was a lease but it's possible that later versions might not have the exact same internal layout...I guess. :grin:
> 
> Mike


I've got a few owned 20-700s and I'll have to take a look. I have some rearranging to do and I'll check then. The second one is probably there, I just don't remember it. Pretty normal for me. 

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> OK I read that link. Thanx, that cleared things up a little. Are the PMs usable with the HRs? Could you put two or three 2TB drives on one HR? I know we've been told that 2TBs is the limit, but if the PMs work...?
> 
> I've got a few owned 20-700s and I'll have to take a look. I have some rearranging to do and I'll check then. The second one is probably there, I just don't remember it. Pretty normal for me.
> 
> Rich


I doubt a port multiplier will work. The OS has to be able to use more then one drive. It's not like connecting it to a PC which will then have something like C:, D:, E:, and F: drives. I'm guessing but I'll bet the firmware is geared to operate with a single volume. :shrug:

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> I doubt a port multiplier will work. The OS has to be able to use more then one drive. It's not like connecting it to a PC which will then have something like C:, D:, E:, and F: drives. I'm guessing but I'll bet the firmware is geared to operate with a single volume. :shrug:
> 
> Mike


You said in a previous post:

in the HR24-500, the NXP chip has two SATA channels so it can potentially connect to two drives at the same time. However, the BCM7038 in the HR20's also have dual SATA channels. Now that I think about it, that may have something to with the external drive not working when the internal is disconnected.

I took that to mean that two drives could be connected to one of the 24s. Was I wrong and if so, what does the hilighted text above mean?

I apologize for not knowing more about the technical aspects of computers, I always had an IT group at my beck and call. Saw no reason to pay attention to how the computers work, just how to use them. Wish I had paid more attention to it now.

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> You said in a previous post:
> 
> in the HR24-500, the NXP chip has two SATA channels so it can potentially connect to two drives at the same time. However, the BCM7038 in the HR20's also have dual SATA channels. Now that I think about it, that may have something to with the external drive not working when the internal is disconnected.
> 
> ...


 Don't equate hardware specifications with the functionality of the machine. The operating system (firmware) would have to be written to make use of both controllers.

IOW, just because there are two controllers doesn't mean you can connect two hard drives and have them both work. :grin:

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> Don't equate hardware specifications with the functionality of the machine. The operating system (firmware) would have to be written to make use of both controllers.
> 
> IOW, just because there are two controllers doesn't mean you can connect two hard drives and have them both work. :grin:
> 
> Mike


Gotcha, thanx,

Rich


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## Folin (Jun 19, 2007)

Rich,
Looks like that Thermaltake HD dock includes an eSATA cable.

But the "frequently bought together" lists another eSATA calbe (6ft). How many feet is the included eSATA cable?

FYI, Looks like that HD can be had for a bit less from here: http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/Sh...I&ci_src=5784816&ci_sku=11798661&nAID=5784816

It doesn't say Open Box on the item description page, but my order confirm email indicates it is open box from macconnection...one more FYI. A little devious, but probably worth the savings.

Haha, scrapping w/ the Chat Support over there...looks like maybe this is not Open Box...they switched Item#'s on me to an Open Box HD...which is no longer listed on their site. Both appreantly were $109....not a great site to order from maybe. Item #10830681 is the New at $109.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Gotcha, thanx,
> 
> Rich


It would be nice if they were both accessible....very nice 

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Folin said:


> Rich,
> Looks like that Thermaltake HD dock includes an eSATA cable.
> 
> But the "frequently bought together" lists another eSATA calbe (6ft). How many feet is the included eSATA cable?
> ...


I don't know how long the cable is, but it's long enough for me. Probably 3 to 4 feet. They always put that "others bought this" crap on the page. Just confuses people.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

MicroBeta said:


> It would be nice if they were both accessible....very nice
> 
> Mike


Probably just add to the confusion. 

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I don't know how long the cable is, but it's long enough for me. Probably 3 to 4 feet. They always put that "others bought this" crap on the page. Just confuses people.
> 
> Rich


Measured the cable, it's 3' long.

Rich


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Measured the cable, it's 3' long.
> 
> Rich


Well, after waiting 14 days for the dock to show up, it finally came today. Drive installed easily, but the dock design is a bit different. It now has a flap on top, (I thought the prior description was a gate that swung open from the front).

Simply drop the drive down into the slot, connect up the eSATA cable (to the unplugged sat box and the dock), and the power wart, and hit the power button on the dock. (having unplugged the sat box earlier). Let the drive spin up, (I waited about 1 minute to be certain), then plug the HR20-700 back in.

Nice Blue Light on the Dock, with an orange mini light that blinks with drive activity.

When the sat box comes back up, the message says "Formatting External Storage" or some such. Re-do favorites, 1080p support test, and series recordings, as well as record defaults, and away ya go.

Of course there is the wait for the Guide to repopulate so you can actually get the series links set up again....I'm in that stage now.

Thanks for the lead on the drive and dock. I'm glad I got the extra 6' eSATA cable, as I needed it. (for length).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hasan said:


> Well, after waiting 14 days for the dock to show up, it finally came today. Drive installed easily, but the dock design is a bit different. It now has a flap on top, (I thought the prior description was a gate that swung open from the front).


All the TTs I've seen and bought have that flap on top.



> Simply drop the drive down into the slot, connect up the eSATA cable (to the unplugged sat box and the dock), and the power wart, and hit the power button on the dock. (having unplugged the sat box earlier). Let the drive spin up, (I waited about 1 minute to be certain), then plug the HR20-700 back in.
> 
> Nice Blue Light on the Dock, with an orange mini light that blinks with drive activity.
> 
> ...


So simple, isn't it? Makes the MX-1 installation (which I always thought was quick and easy) seem complicated and time consuming.

Rich


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