# Since the OTA Tuners are not active.....



## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

...any guess on the number of tuners that will be DOA once the software update arrives?

I've read enough posts about DOA HR20s so since the OTA tuners don't currently work it will be interesting to see the return rate once they are turned on.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Good point. How do you set something that isn't active? I wonder if the "special menu" that the R15 has also works with HR20 and maybe allows them to test it?


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## dude95 (Oct 8, 2005)

Just want to be 100% sure about this.... Does this mean that the activation of the OTA will be by firmware upgrade through the phone or ethernet port? This will not require additional hardware installation? I only want to get an installer out once.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dude95 said:


> Just want to be 100% sure about this.... Does this mean that the activation of the OTA will be by firmware upgrade through the phone or ethernet port? This will not require additional hardware installation? I only want to get an installer out once.


The hardware is already there.
It is a software update.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The hardware is already there.
> It is a software update.


Any idea when Earl?... The machine is pretty much useless to me without them. I made a pretty good hardware investment to get my OTA high enough into the air out here at the beach. I'm 90's to 100 across the board signal strength even on my HR10. The PQ is much better OTA, not to mention I need it to watch KTLA5 KCAL9 & KCET28 and all the other subchannels like The Tube.


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## naijai (Aug 19, 2006)

Patience is a virtue


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

naijai said:


> Patience is a virtue


I think patience is wading through 2 hours of dealing CSRs to order it on the 16th. Then dealing with an incompetent installing company for 5 hours until someone finally shows up at your house without the box and having him sit in your living room over an hour while his supervisor drives up the box. Then having a buggy machine sitting in your rack that can't record OTA and perform other options it's supposed to do out the box (Dolby Digital, FF, rewind without crashing.) How's that for patience?


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Venice,
My HD Tivo continues to work perfectly. I watched a beatuiful OTA HD ball game yesterday too..
:lol: 
I still don't understand DirecTV leadership...


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Venice,
> My HD Tivo continues to work perfectly. I watched a beatuiful OTA HD ball game yesterday too..
> :lol:
> I still don't understand DirecTV leadership...


Yeah, while you're laughing I still have 2 HR10s of my own. The HR20 goes back in the box tonight until there are updates that fix the problems... I can live without FOX Sports WEST and Prime Ticket HD for now. Hopefully any upcoming national HD will still be MPEG2, maybe I'll never need to use the HR20.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

VeniceDre said:


> Any idea when Earl?... The machine is pretty much useless to me without them. I made a pretty good hardware investment to get my OTA high enough into the air out here at the beach. I'm 90's to 100 across the board signal strength even on my HR10. The PQ is much better OTA, not to mention I need it to watch KTLA5 KCAL9 & KCET28 and all the other subchannels like The Tube.


Most reports have it in Ocotober, but that is not confirmed.


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

Earl, 

I'm not sure if you've answered (or tried to answer) this so please forgive me in advance but what was the rationale behind releasing the unit without the ATSC tuning?

IMO, the unit should not be going for whatever the full price is supposed to be, considering it's not able (as of today) to record or receive, for many, a significant amount of channels not offered by D*.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikeny said:


> Earl,
> 
> I'm not sure if you've answered (or tried to answer) this so please forgive me in advance but what was the rationale behind releasing the unit without the ATSC tuning?
> 
> IMO, the unit should not be going for whatever the full price is supposed to be, considering it's not able (as of today) to record or receive, for many, a significant amount of channels not offered by D*.


I don't have an exact reason why they decided to begin with the hardware rollout with the current software version disabling the OTA.

But this is not different then when they (and TiVo) started to rollout the Series 1 DTivos, with the 2nd tuner disabled.... If they KNOW they can activate it later with a software upgrade, then why sit on the box for an extra 2 months?

Considering there are a lot of people who have no intentions of ever hooking up an ota antenna..... either because they don't want the antenna, or it won't work for them.

I understand that there are OTA channels that are not offered by DirecTV, and some that will probably "never" be offered by DirecTV.... but the core 4 are offered in most markets, and that is a significant amount of HD programming.


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

They may have a track record with this kind of thing as you say with the single tuner releases of the past but I think this is substantially different. 

The lack of the convenience of dual tuner functionality, on the older units,as you noted, is one thing, but virtually taking channels AWAY from people on the cusp of the Fall season is really what their doing in this case. For many that's a substantial amount of programming loss.

On another note, I appreciate the the reports you've provider here as well your updates and help on TCF. Whatever hasn't come down the pipe (6.3) isn't your fault or your informer's for that matter, I would imagine.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

The OTA is a real deal breaker for me. I just came back down from the roof. I still have my 3 LNB up there. I pulled off one of the lines from the 5 LNB to the 3 LNB, diplexed back in my OTA. Since I had the installer run another line I have 3 in there now so I have two lines going to my HR10 (one OTA diplexed) and the 3rd going to the HR20. I'll keep the HR20 connected to just one for now... at least now I can record 3 sat programs, or 2 OTA and 1 sat... maybe when they get the ota I'll be able to record 2 SAT on the HR10 and 2 OTA on the HR20... or 4 OTA on both... with just 3 lines... Hey maybe this will work out after all.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Considering there are a lot of people who have no intentions of ever hooking up an ota antenna..... either because they don't want the antenna, or it won't work for them.


I don't agree with that statement. It's not just the 4 major networks but also subchannels those same stations offer plus many folks can receive OTA signals just fine.

Plus, DTV is well know for releasing equipment with hardware malfunctions. Some here have already reported HR20's DOA. The original HR10 had HDMI hardware problems out the wazoo. So now HR20s are being put in customers hands and what's going to happen when the OTA tuners are tuned on? Will they work or will DTV run into a mass replacement of units with faulty OTA tuners since they couldn't be tested when installed.

At least you'd think the OTA signal meter would be operational to make sure everything was hooked up correctly.

I just see this as a huge headache for customers once they are activated.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I don't agree with that statement. It's not just the 4 major networks but also subchannels those same stations offer plus many folks can receive OTA signals just fine.


I second this. Here in Los Angeles this is what we get:

2-1 KCBS - CBS
4-1 KNBC - NBC
4-2 KNBC - NBC Weather Plus
5-1 KTLA - Used to be the WB now it's our CW
5-5 - The Tube Music Network
7-1 KABC - ABC
7-2 KABC - ABC 24 News
7-3 KABC - ABC Traffic & Weather
9-1 KCAL - KCAL 9 Independent (Lakers games)
11-1 KTTV - FOX
13-1 KCOP - Used to be UPN now it's our MY TV
28-1 KCET - PBS HD
28-2 KCET - PBS Upconvert

This doesn't even count the other 2 PBS digital channels and other independents in Orange County & Oxnard, and all the digital Spanish channels.


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## henryld (Aug 16, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I don't agree with that statement. It's not just the 4 major networks but also subchannels those same stations offer plus many folks can receive OTA signals just fine.
> 
> Plus, DTV is well know for releasing equipment with hardware malfunctions. Some here have already reported HR20's DOA. The original HR10 had HDMI hardware problems out the wazoo. So now HR20s are being put in customers hands and what's going to happen when the OTA tuners are tuned on? Will they work or will DTV run into a mass replacement of units with faulty OTA tuners since they couldn't be tested when installed.
> 
> ...


Very good observation. Gives me reason for concern as well.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I don't agree with that statement. It's not just the 4 major networks but also subchannels those same stations offer plus many folks can receive OTA signals just fine.
> 
> Plus, DTV is well know for releasing equipment with hardware malfunctions. Some here have already reported HR20's DOA. The original HR10 had HDMI hardware problems out the wazoo. So now HR20s are being put in customers hands and what's going to happen when the OTA tuners are tuned on? Will they work or will DTV run into a mass replacement of units with faulty OTA tuners since they couldn't be tested when installed.
> 
> ...


That particular line that I wrote (and you quoted), wasn't direct at your Original post or the basis of the DOA question.
It was in respons to the question on why they would release the equipment without the OTA tuners active...

I know there are going to be people who want OTA... (I am one of them), as there are things that I can't get (and probably never will get).

But there are going to be a LOT of customers that will never hook up OTA.. for all sorts of reasons...

As for OTA Tuners being DOA... I am sure there are going to be some... just the law of averages with consumer equipment.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

naijai said:


> Patience is a virtue


But to deliver a complete product on time is divine.


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## naijai (Aug 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> But to deliver a complete product on time is divine.


To each their own


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## oldguy1 (Aug 22, 2006)

A D* CSR I spoke to yesterday claimed that D* will be offering 150 new HD channels by the end of 2007. When I asked if he was referring to new locals, he said no: they would be totally new programng.

He implied you would need the new mpeg4 receivers/dvrs to get them. That part is probably true.

The first part is probably true also. I can't see D* making the investment in mpeg4 without offering something you can't get OTA for free.

They have to be careful they don't price themselves out of the market, though. Many people are now faced with getting their prescriptions filled versus eating. Soon it maybe a choice of that or watching TV.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

oldguy1 said:


> A D* CSR I spoke to yesterday claimed that D* will be offering 150 new HD channels by the end of 2007. When I asked if he was referring to new locals, he said no: they would be totally new programng.


Just to clarrify....

DirecTV will have the capacity to offer 150 national HD networks.....

There is ZERO *ZERO* chance there will be 150 national HD networks by the end of 2007.... WHY?

There are not even 150 HD national networks available... even if you include the 20 or so VOOM channels....

So unless every single cable network out there, spends some serious money and makes some serious technological advances next year..... we are probably looking at 50 TOPS and that is if DirecTV gets access and carriers every single HD network out there.


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## judson_west (Jun 15, 2006)

The point that I believe is getting lost here is that no one was forced to take the HR20. When you get one, you had to ask for it. And you asked for it knowing that the OTA tuners were offline. If you can't live w/o the OTA tuners, then don't order the HR20 until the OTA tuners are online and working.


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## JoeSchueller (Aug 17, 2006)

judson_west said:


> The point that I believe is getting lost here is that no one was forced to take the HR20. When you get one, you had to ask for it. And you asked for it knowing that the OTA tuners were offline. If you can't live w/o the OTA tuners, then don't order the HR20 until the OTA tuners are online and working.


Well said! I don't plan on pushing this until those puppies are lit up and we understand the financial model they're going to employ to swap out HR10's. Anyone jumping in now is on an early adopter curve (and a rather bumpy one at that). I'm anxious to leave behind the HR10, but not _that_ anxious.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

judson_west said:


> The point that I believe is getting lost here is that no one was forced to take the HR20. When you get one, you had to ask for it. And you asked for it knowing that the OTA tuners were offline. If you can't live w/o the OTA tuners, then don't order the HR20 until the OTA tuners are online and working.


I disagree. If you've read Earl's review here you are aware that the OTA tuners are not working. If, on the other hand, you're in LA and call DTV for a new HD DVR without any knowledge of this forum you will receive a HR20 without OTA tuners. While the folks here know this is new and pretty much beta, anyone calling DTV from LA will get this unit. Keep that in mind. So, in LA you are forced to take this unit.

The other issue is when these units hit retail. Once there are available at BB or CC will they have a sticker noting that OTA reception is not available?

Earl, does the box state OTA reception?

Earl, will OTA be turned on before the HR20 is available at BB, CC or online?

Yes, most folks that currently have, or will soon be receiving, a HR20 know this fact. But not all.

OTOH, does everyone that has a HR20 realize that once the tuners are turned on, and if yours doesn't work, you'll be faced with an equipment swap? Loosing all recordings you have in MYVOD.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Earl, does the box state OTA reception?
> 
> Earl, will OTA be turned on before the HR20 is available at BB, CC or online?
> 
> ...


-) I will have to check the box when I get home.
-) Highly doubt full, as most of the retailers are expected to start selling in the next two weeks.

As for the last point.... Yes.. probably (at least if they are following these forums they should).... same could be said for any of the features to be enabled later; eSATA, USB, RJ-45, ect.....

Even though they are not turned on... I honestly don't think we will see a MASSIVE issue that would be outside any normal/acceptable margin of issues (as you know there will be at least 1)

Sucks... but the same coudl be said for anyone that got an HR10-250 when they where first released, used it for 9-12 months via Component, then got that new TV with HDMI... just to find out there was a bad HDMI card in the HR10-250...

It is going to happen... but to what degree is the bigger question.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> but to what degree is the bigger question.


Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but I haven't heard of _any_ cases of failed ATSC tuners in the H20. I don't see why it keeps getting brought up as some huge looming threat on the HR20.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Wolffpack -

Cleary states on the box "Access to HD, standard-definition and local HD DIRECTV programming, as well as off-air digital (ATSC) broadcasts where available***"

"***In cities where local HD programs are available via off-air antenna, reception may vary based on geographical location. Programs not delivered in HD in all markets."


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Hell - I just noticed something!!!!

On my box there is a sticker:

"COMING LATE 2006: This box can also integrate local channels from an off-air antenna (ATSC)"

How late is LATE?!?!


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## O and A Party Rock (Aug 28, 2006)

I saw the same thing on my box yesterday when the installer came. I think Earl said somewhere that October will be the release date.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

VeniceDre said:


> Hell - I just noticed something!!!!
> 
> On my box there is a sticker:
> 
> ...


Right now... everything out there is indicating October


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## plehrack (Aug 21, 2006)

VeniceDre,

Since you already have an HR10-250, why are the OTA tuners on the HR20 a make or break for you? I have both and record my OTA on the HR10-250, which I prefer anyways.

just wondering,

Peter


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

VeniceDre said:


> Hell - I just noticed something!!!!
> 
> On my box there is a sticker:
> 
> ...


That at least handles the retail sales. Good job DTV.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

plehrack said:


> VeniceDre,
> 
> Since you already have an HR10-250, why are the OTA tuners on the HR20 a make or break for you? I have both and record my OTA on the HR10-250, which I prefer anyways.
> 
> ...


Exactly what I meant, why would I use a machine that didn't record over the air? At the time of the HR20 install I just swapped the units thinking I would be able to do everything I could with my HR10 already... After using it a couple of days I rewired my setup to keep the HR10-250 as my primary and the HR20 as a backup. I won't be using the HR20 unless I want to record more than 2 shows at once. I'm lucky that I have three lines coming into the living room at the moment and both dishes on the roof. This way I could run 1 line from my 5 lnb to the HR20, 2 lines to my HR10 w/ a diplexed OTA from the 3 LNB.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> That at least handles the retail sales. Good job DTV.


Just got off the phone with a technical issue regarding possibly stacking MPEG4 at a MDU... I took a moment to ask about the OTA on the HR20. I was told sometime in October also.


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## BooYah (Aug 29, 2006)

D* has one big hurdle before they can kill cable carriers: Weather!
I have an H10 with OAT, which integrates with the SAT channels. The big problem for me, and everyone else is losing connection with the birds during storms. Once the receiver tries to reconnect - there is no way to access the OAT (disabled in setup). Soooo, during bad weather (common in OK...) I have no access to weather station's radar images (must depend on Internet - slow feeds, no good for fast storms).

Given all of that - D* could uproot cable carriers by enabling the OAT out of the box, and allow it to be set up separately from the dish. That's an important distinction: OAT separate, regardless of SAT comm. Cable carriers exploit this vulnerability to the max! I get marketing material from Cox after every major storm that goes like "How did your Satellite system perform during this storm?".


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

BooYah said:


> I get marketing material from Cox after every major storm that goes like "How did your Satellite system perform during this storm?".


I recently got one of those from Comcast...
I called them (seriously), and said it was great... Now let's talk about my Cable-Broadband then went down for 8ish hours because of the storm....


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## BooYah (Aug 29, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I recently got one of those from Comcast...
> I called them (seriously), and said it was great... Now let's talk about my Cable-Broadband then went down for 8ish hours because of the storm....


Yeah, most of us posting here know cable's worse - but I'm talking marketing here. Why does D* do this (disable OAT) when that's the only screw cable carriers have to turn? I would think D* would go out of their way to support the set up independent OAT so they could boast no loss of local weather, taking the wind out of their sails.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

BooYah said:


> Why does D* do this (disable OAT) when that's the only screw cable carriers have to turn?


*OTA* is disabled only because it's not ready. It will be enabled in October.


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## BooYah (Aug 29, 2006)

Independent OTA or Integrated OTA?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

BooYah said:


> Independent OTA or Integrated OTA?


What's the difference?

The OTA tuners are Integrated into the HR20


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## BooYah (Aug 29, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What's the difference?
> 
> The OTA tuners are Integrated into the HR20


Independent means that I have access to the OTA tuners even while I do not have access to satellite (like during storms).

Once I lose sat comm with my H10, I cannot access OTA tuners because it shuts down the guide (integrated OTA). If I could access OTA setup (disabled), I could config the unit to use OTA even without sat comm.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Ahh...

On the H20 (The non-DVR). 
You had access to the OTA tuners, when there was an issue with the SAT signal.


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## BooYah (Aug 29, 2006)

Just what I needed to hear, Earl! That gives me hope that the October date mentioned includes the ability to access the OTA setup and not just the integrated guide...

Thanks!


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I recently got one of those from Comcast...
> I called them (seriously), and said it was great... Now let's talk about my Cable-Broadband then went down for 8ish hours because of the storm....


I like the Billboards from Comcast (with the buddhist monk) that say "one would be foolish to have satellite in the City of Wind". Those make me laugh.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> I like the Billboards from Comcast (with the buddhist monk) that say "one would be foolish to have satellite in the City of Wind". Those make me laugh.


That entire "campaign" bugs me.... The Triple Play is the way to enlightenment...


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## gmmorrell (Aug 25, 2006)

For those uneducated heathens out there. I am a foreigner (Irish by birth), moved to the Second City in 1997. Call the "Second City" because it was built a second time after the great fire. The term "windy city" does not refer to weather in Chicago.

Newspaper reporters in Washington popularized the term in regard to the hype of the city's promoters/politicians during the considerations as to where the World Exposition would be held. They were referred to as "those windbags from Chicago". Other references to "windy" politicians from Chicago date to even earlier times.

Of course, the weather helped the name stick.

If you don't believe me, visit some of the fantastic museums (Science and Industry) where all is explained.

Greetings from "the onion field".


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Anyway, getting back to the OTA tuners, the ones in my HR20 when I get it better work after the software update that will enable them. I spent 2 hours today fishing a new coax line behind my hdtv to get everything ready. Still got itchy arms from the damn insulation in the wall! I had better not run that 3rd coax line for naught


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> I had better not run that 3rd coax line for naught


There's absolutely no question as to whether or not the OTA tuners will be enabled. It's going to happen, period. This isn't like the "for future use" USB ports on the Tivos.


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> There's absolutely no question as to whether or not the OTA tuners will be enabled. It's going to happen, period. This isn't like the "for future use" USB ports on the Tivos.


I know Jeremy, just that I was refering to the original post in this thread which talked about potential DOA OTA tuners in the boxes, or perhaps some other problem. There is no doubt in my mind that OTA will be up and running on the HR20 in another month or two. And now that I realize it, I needed the 3rd line whether the OTA was enabled or not because my OTA line goes into the ATSC tuner on my tv as well.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

PoitNarf said:


> I know Jeremy, just that I was refering to the original post in this thread which talked about potential DOA OTA tuners in the boxes


It's a completely made-up problem, and if for some reason your OTA tuners don't work, you'll be able to exchange to box without issue since it's leased.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> It's a completely made-up problem, and if for some reason your OTA tuners don't work, you'll be able to exchange to box without issue since it's leased.


I think of it as just more of a discussion of a theoretic problem that WILL occur... there is going to be some boxes that have bad OTA...

If you have known Wolffpack for a while... he play's devil's advocate VERY well...


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I think of it as just more of a discussion of a theoretic problem that WILL occur... there is going to be some boxes that have bad OTA...


I understand that, but like I asked earlier, have you heard of ANY H20s with defective OTA tuners? I honestly can't even think of one. I just don't see it as being an issue to have a whole thread about, and it just seems like a thinly veiled excuse to bash the HR20.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I understand that, but like I asked earlier, have you heard of ANY H20s with defective OTA tuners? I honestly can't even think of one. I just don't see it as being an issue to have a whole thread about, and it just seems like a thinly veiled excuse to bash the HR20.


I have seen threads accross the multiple forums. (I regular watch 4 of them, and poke my head in everyonce in a while on a couple more).

Very very few... maybe a handfull at best have actually posted that they where having OTA issues, and a replacement box corrected it.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

So the number isn't zero, and I didn't think it would be either. But the severity of the problem probably ranks up there with defective access cards. In the grand scheme of things, it's really just not an issue. I don't think anybody should be worrying that come October, their OTA tuners won't work. That's all I'm saying.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> There's absolutely no question as to whether or not the OTA tuners will be enabled. It's going to happen, period. This isn't like the "for future use" USB ports on the Tivos.


Or the USB ports on the R15???


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> So the number isn't zero, and I didn't think it would be either. But the severity of the problem probably ranks up there with defective access cards. In the grand scheme of things, it's really just not an issue. I don't think anybody should be worrying that come October, their OTA tuners won't work. That's all I'm saying.


Unless it happens to you and due to a receiver swap you loose your recordings between now and then.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Or the USB ports on the R15???


I bet those will be enabled very soon...


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Unless it happens to you and due to a receiver swap you loose your recordings between now and then.


At least I'd have time to watch all of my recordings before it's swapped out, since a defective OTA tuner doesn't render the whole unit inaccessible. But what if the hard drive dies, which is much more likely to happen than the OTA tuner being defective? Then you're really screwed.

I'm not trying to pick on you Wolffpack, just countering your arguments.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> I bet those will be enabled very soon...


mmmm... define very soon 

I don't think we will see them activated till DirecTV2Go is enabled... but that is a thread for another day... another time... another forum.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> mmmm... define very soon
> 
> I don't think we will see them activated till DirecTV2Go is enabled...


That's exactly what I was referring to. And by very soon, I meant before 2008. :lol:


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I think of it as just more of a discussion of a theoretic problem that WILL occur... there is going to be some boxes that have bad OTA...
> 
> If you have known Wolffpack for a while... he play's devil's advocate VERY well...


I really hate it when folks get to know me. !Devil_lol

But as usual Earl you are correct. My point on this thread was for discussion/debate. It is know that DTV has had problems with parts of receivers/DVRs being DOA in the past. To me that indicates that QA in production does not require all units be hooked to SAT feeds and OTA feeds and HDMI along with other outputs to test each unit before it's sent to customers. I'm not saying every CE vendor does or should. All I'm saying is that typically when a customer installs any CE device they install it in their environment and know immediately that the S-Video port is dead....the SAT tuner is dead...or the OTA tuner(s) are dead. Before the install tech leaves those problems can be resolved...or a new unit ordered.

Under this scenario customers will have a unit for months before they may find out they have a bad unit. Not the ideal situation but I do understand the reasoning behind DTVs decision.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I bet those will be enabled very soon...


To what purpose?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> To what purpose?


DirecTV2Go.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I'm not trying to pick on you Wolffpack, just countering your arguments.


I never viewed you comments as picking on me. I love a healthy, professional debate. Keep it up Jeremy. These types of discussions are one of the assets of this forum. Multiple views regarding a topic in which are discussed as adults. :biggthump


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> I never viewed you comments as picking on me.


I didn't think that you would, but I just wanted to make sure it was perfectly clear. It can be very difficult to judge the tone of someone's post on a message board.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Jeremy W said:


> I didn't think that you would, but I just wanted to make sure it was perfectly clear. It can be very difficult to judge the tone of someone's post on a message board.


Oh, just ask some of the old timers here. It's easy to tell if I'm "upset" as my tone REALLY gets sarcastic (yes I know, how could it) and the eyes on my avatar turn RED. :lol:

I love discussion.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

gmmorrell said:


> For those uneducated heathens out there. I am a foreigner (Irish by birth), moved to the Second City in 1997. Call the "Second City" because it was built a second time after the great fire. The term "windy city" does not refer to weather in Chicago.
> 
> Newspaper reporters in Washington popularized the term in regard to the hype of the city's promoters/politicians during the considerations as to where the World Exposition would be held. They were referred to as "those windbags from Chicago". Other references to "windy" politicians from Chicago date to even earlier times.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think I acutally learned that when we took the kids to the Science and Industry.

Onion field? I haven't heard that one for Chicago.



PoitNarf said:


> Anyway, getting back to the OTA tuners, the ones in my HR20 when I get it better work after the software update that will enable them. I spent 2 hours today fishing a new coax line behind my hdtv to get everything ready. Still got itchy arms from the damn insulation in the wall! I had better not run that 3rd coax line for naught


I've still have to get around to getting my OTA out of the attic since it doesn't work at all due to the siding on the house (it was there when I moved in). So once I get it installed outside the house should I run two lines down to where I'm putting the HR20 or should I just run one and split it there? I want to run a lead to the TV too. I didn't know if it would make a difference.


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## RMSko (Aug 23, 2006)

I live in the NY area so when I get an HR-20 I will be able to get the locals. However, the picture via OTA is superior to D*'s HD local feeds and I would prefer to record via OTA. As a result, if the OTA is not working when the units are available in my area, if I get an HR-20 I'll have to set all of my season passes all over again once the OTA is activated. I know this isn't the end of the world, but it is a pain.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

RMSko said:


> I live in the NY area so when I get an HR-20 I will be able to get the locals. However, the picture via OTA is superior to D*'s HD local feeds and I would prefer to record via OTA. As a result, if the OTA is not working when the units are available in my area, if I get an HR-20 I'll have to set all of my season passes all over again once the OTA is activated. I know this isn't the end of the world, but it is a pain.


Are you basing that off the MPEG-2 SAT feeds or the MPEG-4 SAT feeds (aka if you have an H20), the comparison of PQ

I know comparing the Chicago MPEG-4 CBS to the NY MPEG-2 CBS (that I get via DNS), the MPEG-4 CBS has a higher PQ (IMHO).


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> I've still have to get around to getting my OTA out of the attic since it doesn't work at all due to the siding on the house (it was there when I moved in). So once I get it installed outside the house should I run two lines down to where I'm putting the HR20 or should I just run one and split it there? I want to run a lead to the TV too. I didn't know if it would make a difference.


Just run 1 coax line. You can just split the OTA line right behind your TV. Works fine with my current setup.


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## RMSko (Aug 23, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Are you basing that off the MPEG-2 SAT feeds or the MPEG-4 SAT feeds (aka if you have an H20), the comparison of PQ
> 
> I know comparing the Chicago MPEG-4 CBS to the NY MPEG-2 CBS (that I get via DNS), the MPEG-4 CBS has a higher PQ (IMHO).


Fair point Earl. I am basing it off of the MPEG-2 SAT feeds. In your opinion, is the quality of the MPEG-4 SAT feeds as good as the OTA feeds? If so, then activation of the OTA tuners won't be a big deal for me. I was assuming (hopefuly incorrectly) that I would want to use the OTA tuners.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

As I have always tagged these responses:

With my Eyes, on my TV, IMHO...

What I get via OTA, and what I see MPEG-4 is extremely similar.... And that is on the H20 (non-DVR)

The channel doesn't change fast enough (or my video inputs to compare the H20 and the HR20), to get the exact same frame..... maybe when OTA gets on the HR20, I can do a still frame comparison some how.


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Earl or somebody.... when I get my HR20 (hopefully in the next few weeks)and do initial set up do i hook up my OTA or leave it off and connect when the tuner is activated and re-run set up?


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

tsbrady1 said:


> Earl or somebody.... when I get my HR20 (hopefully in the next few weeks)and do initial set up do i hook up my OTA or leave it off and connect when the tuner is activated and re-run set up?


I don't think it would cause any harm to hook it up to the OTA when you first connect everything. That's what I'm going to do when I get mine in addition to connecting the ethernet.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

tsbrady1 said:


> Earl or somebody.... when I get my HR20 (hopefully in the next few weeks)and do initial set up do i hook up my OTA or leave it off and connect when the tuner is activated and re-run set up?


I would go ahead and hook it up, so you don't have to pull everything out again later.


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## tsbrady1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Earl & PoitNarf, Thanks for the replies i will hook it up that way.


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## lbostons (Jun 13, 2006)

Earl - Sorry to re-hash a possible old item but has your contacts said when the HR20 will gain functionality of the OTA tuners? I would think that they would have this up ang going around the time of the national release unless they are undated with small fixes. Again, I am sorry if this was stated ealier and I missed it.

Thanks,

lbostons


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

lbostons said:


> Earl - Sorry to re-hash a possible old item but has your contacts said when the HR20 will gain functionality of the OTA tuners? I would think that they would have this up ang going around the time of the national release unless they are undated with small fixes. Again, I am sorry if this was stated ealier and I missed it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> lbostons


The time frame I have been told (and have seen in other places), is the October timeframe.


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## lbostons (Jun 13, 2006)

Man Earl you are fast, thank you for the prompt response. Now get back to work! lol


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## LA Mark (Aug 28, 2006)

The M-PEG4 locals in Los Angeles are comparable with OTA. The only advantages I see with activating the OTA turner is the ability to record 3 shows simultaneously and a few more channels.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

LA Mark said:


> The M-PEG4 locals in Los Angeles are comparable with OTA. The only advantages I see with activating the OTA turner is the ability to record 3 shows simultaneously and a few more channels.


Just so you know... regardless of what the manual says...

Everything I have been told, is that the unit is only going to record a NET of 2 recordings at once.

A different advantage is that the MPEG-4 should take up less room on the hard drive then the MPEG-2 OTA


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

LA Mark said:


> The M-PEG4 locals in Los Angeles are comparable with OTA. The only advantages I see with activating the OTA turner is the ability to record 3 shows simultaneously and a few more channels.


"A few more channels" is a big advantage to me.


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## LA Mark (Aug 28, 2006)

VeniceDre said:


> "A few more channels" is a big advantage to me.


More channels have no value to me if I don't watch them, I watch less than 20% of all the channels I receive. I would be happy if Directv canceled 50% of there channels and devoted the extra bandwidth to improve the signal.

One other advantage with the OTA turner is I am able to watch TV when the sat signals goes down, it has happen to me due to bad weather.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

LA Mark said:


> More channels have no value to me if I don't watch them, I watch less than 20% of all the channels I receive. I would be happy if Directv canceled 50% of there channels and devoted the extra bandwidth to improve the signal.
> 
> One other advantage with the OTA turner is I am able to watch TV when the sat signals goes down, it has happen to me due to bad weather.


I'm pretty sure just because you don't watch said channels doesn't mean other people in the DirecTV system don't watch them.


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## Wally_Gator (Nov 28, 2005)

LA Mark said:


> One other advantage with the OTA turner is I am able to watch TV when the sat signals goes down, it has happen to me due to bad weather.


What weather? We live in Southern Cal... LOL


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## LA Mark (Aug 28, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I'm pretty sure just because you don't watch said channels doesn't mean other people in the DirecTV system don't watch them.


Where in my message did in say that? Read it again.


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## LA Mark (Aug 28, 2006)

Wally_Gator said:


> What weather? We live in Southern Cal... LOL


Is this a serious question?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

LA Mark said:


> Where in my message did in say that? Read it again.





LA Mark said:


> More channels have no value to me if I don't watch them, I watch less than 20% of all the channels I receive. I would be happy if Directv canceled 50% of there channels and devoted the extra bandwidth to improve the signal.
> 
> One other advantage with the OTA turner is I am able to watch TV when the sat signals goes down, it has happen to me due to bad weather.


Right up there is where you said it.


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## LA Mark (Aug 28, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> Right up there is where you said it.


Were in my statement did I say other people don't watch them? Read it again

Also do you really believe that anyone on this planet believes that we all watch the same channels, and 200+ channels never get view? Think. Your original statement is worthless.

Hopefully we can now get back on the topic.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

You really should watch the attitude as what you said is you could care less if they get rid of the channels or not since you don't watch them. You implied I don't watch so lose them.



LA Mark said:


> Were in my statement did I say other people don't watch them? Read it again
> 
> Also do you really believe that anyone on this planet believes that we all watch the same channels, and 200+ channels never get view? Think. Your original statement is worthless.
> 
> Hopefully we can now get back on the topic.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Chill guys!!! LA stated he doesn't watch all the channels and that from his standpoint DTV could dump them. I agree. I really don't see that he took any attitude. I could also care less about the channels I don't watch. Kinda one of those DUH situations. So 'nough said.....

:backtotop


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## Richard Chalk (Jan 4, 2004)

Clint Lamor said:


> You really should watch the attitude as what you said is you could care less if they get rid of the channels or not since you don't watch them. You implied I don't watch so lose them.


When you guys (and sometimes others) decide to get into a personal battle, which is completely irrelevant to the thread topic, would you please do the rest of us the courtesy of taking it private?

I'm sure most of us couldn't care less, and we wouldn't have to wade through pages of unrelated junk just to read the few posts that actually contribute something useful...

Thank you for your consideration

Richard


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Richard Chalk said:


> When you guys (and sometimes others) decide to get into a personal battle, which is completely irrelevant to the thread topic, would you please do the rest of us the courtesy of taking it private?
> 
> I'm sure most of us couldn't care less, and we wouldn't have to wade through pages of unrelated junk just to read the few posts that actually contribute something useful...
> 
> ...


I had no battle and do not intend to. I made a statement that just because one doesn't watch a channel makes them no less important to others. The conversation was over if you had noticed until your post. This can now completely get back on topic as I should have just not voiced my opinion even though I disagreed.


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## hdtvee1 (Sep 1, 2006)

This from Customer service at Directv:

Thank you for writing DIRECTV. I'm glad you are interested in the new HD DVR. This receiver is currently being tested in some areas and will be released nationally soon. While initially the off-air tuners will not work, after the free software download in October 2006 you will be able to get additional HD local channels from over the air waves.


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## ShiningBengal (Jan 24, 2003)

oldguy1 said:


> A D* CSR I spoke to yesterday claimed that D* will be offering 150 new HD channels by the end of 2007. When I asked if he was referring to new locals, he said no: they would be totally new programng.
> 
> He implied you would need the new mpeg4 receivers/dvrs to get them. That part is probably true.
> 
> ...


Why, oh why do people continue to believe what CSR's say despite volumes of posts proving many of them don't have a clue?

There is no way DirecTV is giving you 150 additional HDTV channels with any content you'd be interested in. Do you think that DirecTV can just make an announcement that they can carry 150 more HDTV channels and they will magically appear out of nowhere?

Perhaps they can offer 25 Bible-thumping stations, 25 home shopping stations, 25 paid commercial account stations, 25 old-English movies, upconverted of course, and colorized as well, and 50 sub-channels of local digital TV stations around the country.

They can't even manage to give us even ONE HDTV channel by eliminating some of the cash-producing but total trash stations they now carry.

What bunnies do you think they will pull out of their HDTV hat?

Capacity is not the same as content. You won't live long enough to have any where near a small fraction of that 150 channels, unless you want to watch some of the offerings on my list.


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## mjm76 (Aug 27, 2006)

hdtvee1 said:


> This from Customer service at Directv:
> 
> Thank you for writing DIRECTV. I'm glad you are interested in the new HD DVR. This receiver is currently being tested in some areas and will be released nationally soon. While initially the off-air tuners will not work, after the free software download in October 2006 you will be able to get additional HD local channels from over the air waves.


I wonder why DirecTV would wait till October to activate the OTA tuners. That does not make any sense to me.

It seems they could lose a lot of sales that way! Just my opinion.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

mjm76 said:


> I wonder why DirecTV would wait till October to activate the OTA tuners. That does not make any sense to me.


The software to run them just isn't finished, and they decided that getting the HR20 into people's hands quickly is more important than going a month or two without OTA tuners. Especially since the only places that will be receiving the HR20 before October are places that already have HD LILs lit up.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

I'm in no rush. I was told the HR10-250 would get an upgrade to support Native Mode and people thought I was crazy to wait. Never did buy it. I have one now that DirecTV gave me and it still doesn't have the feature. I was able to wait until just about 8 weeks ago to get an HD DVR, I can wait out this hysteria over the HR20. 

Once it dies down a bit it'll be a simple matter to get retension to swap out my HR10 for the HR20 and probably even throw in a free install for the new dish. I'll also be assured that all features are intact and working.

NOTE I'm not suggesting that DirecTV won't turn OTA on. I'm just saying that in these cases I've learned that it's best to only sign on once you actually see these things up and running.


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## gregftlaud (Nov 20, 2005)

there are other advantages for the ota tuners to be working. such as being able to receive sub channels, pbs, and other network channels that dtv isnt carrying in mpeg4 yet.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

gregftlaud said:


> there are other advantages for the ota tuners to be working. such as being able to receive sub channels, pbs, and other network channels that dtv isnt carrying in mpeg4 yet.


This is true, but for most people, temporarily losing those channels isn't something they'd shed a tear over.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

gregftlaud said:


> there are other advantages for the ota tuners to be working. such as being able to receive sub channels, pbs, and other network channels that dtv isnt carrying in mpeg4 yet.


These are (or will be) deal breakers for a majority. In the market I reside in, there are four or five channels that are available only as subchannels. PBS, WB and UPN are all available in HD. Of course in my market, none of the HD LIL are available yet as is the case for at least 35% of the population. I've often wondered whether their "coverage" numbers are coverage of their own subscribers or coverage of total homes. I suspect that the numbers are based on the much easier total homes.

Add these numbers to those who can get locals OTA and you've got a pretty substantial element of the population that would want to have OTA locals.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> These are (or will be) deal breakers for a majority.


I disagree with that. I don't think that very many people are going to skip the HR20 because it won't get PBS, CW, MyNetworkTV, and WeatherPlus until October. There's a reason those channels aren't on HD LIL yet...


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## mjm76 (Aug 27, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> I disagree with that. I don't think that very many people are going to skip the HR20 because it won't get PBS, CW, MyNetworkTV, and WeatherPlus until October. There's a reason those channels aren't on HD LIL yet...


OK,
Even though I am going to eventually get the HR20 the problem without the OTA tuners is that my MLB team the Cardinals are in the middle of a pennant race and one of the locals that is not offered by DirecTV yet is STL Channel 11 and that is where the team plays a lot of their games. So YES!!!!!!!!!!! this is a problem. My old Hitachi RPTV does not have a HD Digital OTA tuner built in so I have to rely on the DirecTV receiver to tune my OTA channels in. Missing PBS and a couple of OTA channels is not that big of deal for me but not getting the St. Louis OTA independent station Channel 11 is a big deal especially since the Cardinals are in the middle of penant race and BTW a lot of the game are televised in HD.

So for me I will probably wait till the OTA tuners are active.

"TO EACH HIS OWN!"


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## goldwing (Aug 25, 2006)

mjm76 said:


> OK,
> Even though I am going to eventually get the HR20 the problem without the OTA tuners is that my MLB team the Cardinals are in the middle of a pennant race and one of the locals that is not offered by DirecTV yet is STL Channel 11 and that is where the team plays a lot of their games. So YES!!!!!!!!!!! this is a problem. My old Hitachi RPTV does not have a HD Digital OTA tuner built in so I have to rely on the DirecTV receiver to tune my OTA channels in. Missing PBS and a couple of OTA channels is not that big of deal for me but not getting the St. Louis OTA independent station Channel 11 is a big deal especially since the Cardinals are in the middle of penant race and BTW a lot of the game are televised in HD.
> 
> So for me I will probably wait till the OTA tuners are active.
> ...


Well you can just do what i did which is run both the HR20 and (in my case) keep my DTC100 hooked up too for OTA only until they enable the tuners in the HR20. The only downside to this is no OTA recording but then i also have the Sony OTA hd dvr in bedroom


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