# chann 214, obsolete receiver message



## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

I tune to channel 214 and get the message, "your receiver is obsolete and will soon need to be replaced, please call dtv" etc etc. I know my receiver is old, like from the year 2000, but when can I expect it to no longer work? Pretty sure its an RCA box w/ no rec. id, just a card id. If they are replacing it/upgrading it/ what can i expect are my FREE options for upgrade, as I do have a couple of these receviers still on my account (3 I think). And will the 'replacement' be an HD or SD recvr, an will it be a leased box? I'm assuming a lease since DTV doenst do 'owned' anymore.


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## Rob (Apr 23, 2002)

_If you have been a customer since 2000, I expect you will get upgraded for free. If you threaten to cancel, most likely you could get not only HD receivers, but some free programming and discounts for a period of time. _


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

The "Master Program Guide" (MPG) those older boxes rely upon to operate is soon to be discontinued and removed from the satellite stream causing these boxes to cease functioning.

You should be upgraded with free D12 SD receivers in a "like-for-like" exchange program setup for this issue. However, if you use this opportunity to upgrade to something more like HD equipment (a "non-like" exchange) there will be a cost of course unless you can arrange for a deal or some other.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

and if you go for the upgrade or "not like for like" approach there will be a 24 month commitment. if you do 'like for like" there is no contract


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

If your using one of those RCA receivers, your also probably using a round dish. That isn't compatible with HD receivers. A newer oval dish with multi LNB's would have to be installed.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

Here's a relevant thread from May.
http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/203605-pre-2003-receiver-upgrade/


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## Jacob Braun (Oct 6, 2011)

You'll get a D12 or (if you're in an MPEG4 market) an H24.

Most likely a D12. Whatever you receive will work with your old dish. And it will be leased.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

Don't need the Dish upgrade. Have 1 HD DVR already, as well as an old SD Tivo, plus these 3 RCA's. HD 5-LNB slimline (although in the DC Market, you only need the 3-LNB), w/ a Zinwell multiswitch. I guess i'll letcha know what happens w/ the "upgrade".


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Dude, upgrade your stuff. Seriously. This legacy equipment is wasting bandwidth that could be repurposed if outdated equipment were no longer in use.


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## BlackDynamite (Jun 5, 2007)

Oh no, this is not good news. I have one of those old RCA receivers in my motorhome. I only activate it every once in a great while when I take the motorhome out. 

This means I'll need to replace that receiver, and as far as I know, the satellite system in that motorhome only works with old receivers (it connects with a phone cord to communicate with the receiver so it can automatically rotate the dish to find the satellite).


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## otaliema (Aug 9, 2012)

BlackDynamite said:


> Oh no, this is not good news. I have one of those old RCA receivers in my motorhome. I only activate it every once in a great while when I take the motorhome out.
> 
> This means I'll need to replace that receiver, and as far as I know, the satellite system in that motorhome only works with old receivers (it connects with a phone cord to communicate with the receiver so it can automatically rotate the dish to find the satellite).


Contact the manufacture of your dish to find out if they have an adapter to work with newer receivers for your dish. They will try and push newer dish on you but if you push back enough they should relent and give you the infformation.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Dude, upgrade your stuff. Seriously. This legacy equipment is wasting bandwidth that could be repurposed if outdated equipment were no longer in use.


Moving to all mpeg 4 will take years and him alone upgrading is meaningless just for that reason in all honesty. Until DIRECTV pushes everyone to genies it's not something to worry about. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk mobile app


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

What does pushing everyone to Genies have to do with moving to MPEG4? Only SD equipment would be affected by that, all the HD receivers/DVRs do MPEG4. Someone with only HD receivers and DVRs, even old stuff like H20/HR20, wouldn't even notice if all MPEG2 channels were converted to MPEG4 tomorrow.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> What does pushing everyone to Genies have to do with moving to MPEG4? Only SD equipment would be affected by that, all the HD receivers/DVRs do MPEG4. Someone with only HD receivers and DVRs, even old stuff like H20/HR20, wouldn't even notice if all MPEG2 channels were converted to MPEG4 tomorrow.


I didn't put it in detail, but that was my point push all non MPEG4 people to genies. Genies is what Directv wants to install over anything else when possible for everyone. Thats the only reason I mentioned genies. It will be a long process regardless to phase out all non mpeg4 capable boxes..


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

You get a reconditioned D12 SD receiver. There is no commitment (or extension of an existing one). There is no charge of any kind. The new receiver is leased so forget about activating and deactivating it periodically. If you deactivate it, they will want it back.

One thing to remember-be sure you INSIST on what they refer to as an "MPG swap". An uninformed CSR tried to explain to me that there would be a charge and commitment until I explained that I wanted an MPG swap which they grudgingly looked up. After you complete the transaction but before you activate the replacement receiver check on the website under "orders" and BE SURE it says "MPG Swap".


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

LOL that is pretty messed up when the channel is even telling you "yo man yo *** is old"


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## davidgcet (Jul 28, 2013)

I've got an OLD Phillips I think it is a dr430, that I have had since 2002. It was the first D RX I ever bought and the darn thing works just great, can't seem to kill it. When it does finally die, or D decides it is too old i'll just get another genie mini and finally be able to get rid of my 2nd dish. LOL


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

davidgcet said:


> I've got an OLD Phillips I think it is a dr430, that I have had since 2002. It was the first D RX I ever bought and the darn thing works just great, can't seem to kill it. When it does finally die, or D decides it is too old i'll just get another genie mini and finally be able to get rid of my 2nd dish. LOL


Or just call and see if they upgrade you for free for that unit, since it sounds like you want to anyway.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Unless he just wants to go HD with the mini client plus get rid of the second dish.

I personally like that idea.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

> Dude, upgrade your stuff. Seriously. This legacy equipment is wasting bandwidth that could be repurposed if outdated equipment were no longer in use.


Older stuff IS MUCH BETTER .. Its more basic,does what it does BETTER and its stupid to part with it!

I will keep my RCA as long as I can...

Think about this before you give up your box: IF THIS WAS A LEGIT UPGRADE WITH NO GAIN ON THIER PART,THEY WOULD JUST AUTOMATICALLY SEND ALL CUSTOMERS NEW BOXS!!!!! (WITHOUT THE NEED TO CONSENT)

THEY WANT ALL CUSTOMERS TO CONSENT TO LEASING THIER BOXS WHICH BRINGS IN MORE $$$$$ FOR THEM!! -- Do you willingly want to pay more for the same crap??


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

You pay $6 per additional receiver and the 1st receiver is included in your base package whether you own or lease, they make no more money on those. You couldn't pay me for going back to the old stuff. Check your facts before you post mis-information.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Dude111 said:


> Older stuff IS MUCH BETTER .. Its more basic,does what it does BETTER and its stupid to part with it!
> 
> I will keep my RCA as long as I can...
> 
> ...


The cost they make is identical between old stuff and new stuff. The price doesn't increase for the upgrade. Don't know why you think it does.

They only get more if you upgrade to hd and or dvr as well as newer equipment.

And they are sending out new equipment free of charge no strings attached to those with the older units that dont accept the proper guide data, so they can make system wide upgrades. They will eventually do this for all subs to mpeg4 equipment as well, but there's so many boxes out there now that it would be cost prohibitive to do it right now.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

They are getting desperate!!!

Sent a letter to our house "IMPORTANT INFO ABOUT YOUR EQUIPMENT"

I knew what it was but I read it and I stopped reading when i saw this

*What are some of the benefits of upgrading?*

FASTER PERFORMANCE









Tore it up and threw it out!!!!!!

NOTHING THEY HAVE COMES ANYWHERE NEAR MY RCA!!!!!!! -- They wanna take my box,they will lose me as a long time customer!!!!!!


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Dude111 said:


> Older stuff IS MUCH BETTER .. Its more basic,does what it does BETTER and its stupid to part with it!
> 
> I will keep my RCA as long as I can...
> 
> ...


That last sentence is completely incorrect. You will not pay one cent more if you replaced your RCA with the current receiver. Upgrading to same functionality (reciever to receiver or DVR to DVR) does NOT bring in more money.



Dude111 said:


> They are getting desperate!!!
> 
> Sent a letter to our house "IMPORTANT INFO ABOUT YOUR EQUIPMENT"
> 
> ...


Nobody's "getting desperate". The only thing they gain is not having to support legacy equipment.

But, if you feel you need to leave DIRECTV over this, that really doesn't make much sense to to me...unless you're going to not have a TV service provider. If you move to another provider you'll be in the same boat as you would with DIRECTV. You won't have your RCA and you'll be using what ever the latest box the new cable/satellite provider gives you.

Apparently you've compared the speed/performance of the latest receivers to your RCA so if you decide to leave, fair enough. I hope it all works out the way you want.

Mike


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## bjlc (Aug 20, 2004)

well the case is this, you want a DVR.. you have to pay EXTRA PER MONTH.. why? you wouldn't pay extra for a VHS... why should you have to pay extra for a DVR.. its a receiver.. period.. it doesn't take extra band width.. and then if you want a genie, which they are pushing like crazy.. its an extra charge ON TOP OF THE DVR EXTRA CHARGE.. Why? because its FREE MONEY FOR DIRECTV.. its a receiver.. if you want to charge more for an initial cost of a receiver, fine.. but it should be a ONE TIME CHARGE, not a monthly charge.. plus your other receivers.. You buy a car.. it comes with a radio.. but you want a BOSE system.. you pay a one time charge.. ITS YOUR RADIO.. all this is , is TOTALLY FREE MONEY FOR D*.. per month.. just like the HD charge.. it doesn't cost them more to send an HD signal.. THEY HAVE TO SEND IT.. its basically the law of the land.. but you and I are paying for NOTHING.. because if D* didn't send it , THEY WOULD BE OUT OF BUSINESS.. but they are getting FREE money from you.. and Me.. for NOTHING.. because HD signal is the cost of doing business..


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

They have to send HD??


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Ok everyone, back to discussing obsolete receivers. This isn’t a discussion of DIRECTV fees. I’m sure there’s already a thread on that somewhere.

:backtotop

Mike


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

And, please, less SHOUTING! If one really needs emphasis, there's _*underlining, bolding and italics available. *_


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

Directv could start to look at it as those with the older recievers are obsolete customers...typically lower margin customers that probably at some point wont be worth keeping as customers.....SD receivers, lowest tier packages.....


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

CCarncross said:


> Directv could start to look at it as those with the older recievers are obsolete customers...typically lower margin customers that probably at some point wont be worth keeping as customers.....SD receivers, lowest tier packages.....


Just because someone has SD only with older receivers doesn't make the customers obsolete. What about a customer that has older receivers, SD, and Premium movie channels. I know friends/family in that situation. Would you consider them low margin and potentially not worth keeping? That just seems to me to be a little short sighted.

Mike


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Customers who have old dishes and old receivers are cash cows. Directv isn't investing any money at all in them, and they aren't getting all the freebies that new customers get. They may be more profitable than a lot of HD customers - certainly more profitable than any customer who has been with Directv for less than two years.

You have a few million customers that keep paying you $10-$20 more every month than it costs you to provide their programming, many of whom have been doing so for a decade or more, you want to keep them happy!


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

One thing is for sure, DirecTV would love to put these customers on the "advanced Receiver" fee bandwagon...


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> One thing is for sure, DirecTV would love to put these customers on the "advanced Receiver" fee bandwagon...


I'm sure they would, but I wonder how long the payback is if in order to induce them to upgrade you give these customers a new dish, a new Genie, and possibly a SWM16 if the Genie pushes them over 8 tuners? Having customers spending an extra $25/month is great, except that it puts a bigger target on Directv's back when someone starts looking for ways to reduce their spending.

People who are still SD only probably mostly fall into one of two camps. One, they don't consider TV that important to worth spending too much money on. Two, they don't have a lot of money to spend on monthly TV fees or on a new HD set. Either way it may be hard for Directv to get them to decide to spend that extra $25/month and keep them for the long term.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Dude111 said:


> They are getting desperate!!!
> 
> Sent a letter to our house "IMPORTANT INFO ABOUT YOUR EQUIPMENT"
> 
> ...


Well, I upgraded my old Hughes box utilizing the "MPG swap" offer and got a reconditioned D12 (but it works perfect, no charge of any kind, and no new commitment)

Why did I do it well in advance of the MPG going away?

I use this non-DVR receiver in my computer room for one reason-Sonic Tap!! Yup, it's got an old 5" B & W TV connected to it which is rarely turned on and only to set it up. And the new D12 gets a number of additional music channels from the 119 that were NOT added to the MPG when Sonic Tap came along. Plus, if it breaks down I can get it replaced for only $20. If my Hughes broke down it would have been tough luck Charlie-pay full price and enjoy a new commitment!

They won't "take" your RCA box-one day you will just turn it on and it won't work anymore because without the MPG (master program guide) it won't know how to tune channels. Frankly, I'm surprised they still haven't shut off the MPG as I got my D12 and retired my Hughes box months ago.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Customers who have old dishes and old receivers are cash cows. Directv isn't investing any money at all in them, and they aren't getting all the freebies that new customers get. They may be more profitable than a lot of HD customers - certainly more profitable than any customer who has been with Directv for less than two years.
> 
> You have a few million customers that keep paying you $10-$20 more every month than it costs you to provide their programming, many of whom have been doing so for a decade or more, you want to keep them happy!


Well, that comment about "aren't getting all the freebies that new customers get" isn't exactly true. I am one of those ancient, obsolete customers with an old dish and SD service. And I was giving DirecTV a FORTUNE every month. I called and asked about my commitment (even though I knew I didn't have one). This immediately triggered a transfer to the retention dept.

If you don't think DTV knows all about old SD customers with equipment that has been paid for over and over you are wrong. They gave me THIRTY FIVE DOLLARS A MONTH off my bill for 12 months and FIFTEEN DOLLARS a month off for months 12-15 just so I wouldn't cancel and jump to another provider. Do the math. That's the same discount NEW CUSTOMERS RECEIVE-maybe even a little more.

Guess what was NEVER brought up on the call? Upgrading to HD which I have no intention of doing at this time.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Well if you don't have an HDTV then that's fine if you do you wasted money on a tv IMHO. 

But to the point of this thread... If you still use an mpg box I believe you have already lost stuff. They don't tune to dash channels do they? So you just lost all alt and part time channels. 

If that means anything to those that have those boxes. 


Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

well MPG still working....for now. The only part time channel I like to watch is Fox College Sports, which comes in just fine.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

I do believe Directv has finally issued an end date to these receivers. And it looms very soon, December 19th.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

shadough said:


> I do believe Directv has finally issued an end date to these receivers. And it looms very soon, December 19th.


Yes, some have reported their accounts being suspended at this point.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Ya they suspended mine,I JUST CALLED AND HAD IT RE-ACTIVATED!!!!!! (Then I pulled my card so they cant do this again (Ill only put it in when I watch it))

THIS IS JUST A SCAM TO TRY AND FORCE EVERYONE TO THIER GARBAGE AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE!!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Good luck with that as your box won't work at all very soon.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Dude111 said:


> Ya they suspended mine,I JUST CALLED AND HAD IT RE-ACTIVATED!!!!!! (Then I pulled my card so they cant do this again (Ill only put it in when I watch it))
> 
> THIS IS JUST A SCAM TO TRY AND FORCE EVERYONE TO THIER GARBAGE AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE!!


Good luck with that. It would not surprise me if the receiver has a timeout if the card is pulled out for an extended time, and then you would need to call to have the receiver re-authorized. And, if it's a non-supported receiver, they may not be able to reauthorize the receiver.

I get to deal with this on a recurring basis in the computer field. You can tell that we watch closely the operating system and browser user percentages, and if the older version usage percentage drops too low, we have to drop the support because it is too expensive. Many web sites no longer support Internet Explorer 6. Google's policy is to support the current version and one version back of IE, Firefox, and Chrome. The company I work for just dropped support for Mac OSX 10.5, and already dropped support a while ago for OSX 10.5 and older and PowerPC. Yet, I still had to deal with a few heated customers who were not happy about the dropping of PowerPC support. And, the days are numbered for Windows XP support.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

bjlc said:


> well the case is this, you want a DVR.. you have to pay EXTRA PER MONTH.. why? you wouldn't pay extra for a VHS... why should you have to pay extra for a DVR.. its a receiver.. period..


Because the DVR can record more hours than a VHS tape (6-8 hours on EP)? And, for DIsh and DirecTV DVRs, they record the exact digital stream that is sent down from the satellite which is of higher resolution than a VHS tape? Or that the DVR is more sophisticated in that I can set it up to record a show based upon program data verses setting a start and stop time? Plus, I can start watching a program while it is still recording? And, I can tell the receiver to record a program from my smart phone?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Stop with the shouting, already, "dude".


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> Stop with the shouting, already, "dude".


+!.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Dude111 said:


> Ya they suspended mine,I JUST CALLED AND HAD IT RE-ACTIVATED!!!!!! (Then I pulled my card so they cant do this again (Ill only put it in when I watch it))
> 
> THIS IS JUST A SCAM TO TRY AND FORCE EVERYONE TO THIER GARBAGE AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE!!


It's not a scam, I assure you. There are literally only a handful of customers left on these receivers yet they consume enormous resources in terms of bandwidth capacity, equipment, etc. Customers have been notified for months that this was happening. Channels will start to com down this week and by the 31st they should all be gone.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Satelliteracer said:


> It's not a scam, I assure you. There are literally only a handful of customers left on these receivers yet they consume enormous resources in terms of bandwidth capacity, equipment, etc. Customers have been notified for months that this was happening. Channels will start to com down this week and by the 31st they should all be gone.


I guess some one will not get to see the ball drop....


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

peds48 said:


> I guess some one will not get to see the ball drop....


Hopefully since channels are coming down in the next week, they will be able to order their free replacements, have them in a day or two at their home and not miss a thing.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

Satelliteracer said:


> Hopefully since channels are coming down in the next week, they will be able to order their free replacements, have them in a day or two at their home and not miss a thing.


NO, but the "dude" does not want to. He thinks DirecTV is after his receivers....


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

peds48 said:


> NO, but the "dude" does not want to. He thinks DirecTV is after his receivers....


I doubt Directv is too worried about losing the handful of conspiracy theorists who think this is all some evil plot by Directv to pry these ancient receivers from his cold dead hands


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Laxguy said:


> Stop with the shouting, already, "dude".


Im sorry everybody....... I just dont like good things getting worse!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

And that's your opinion and while I (as well as others might too) will disagree and say that your old box is not as good as a new one anyway for all kinds of reasons your are Absolutely entitled to your opinion to the contrary.

But stop telling people this isn't happening. It is. That's not an opinion.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

If for whatever reason you hate the D1x series enough to refuse the free upgrade there are some pre-D1x APG receivers still out there you might be able to purchase in the Buy, Sell and Trade forum here or on eBay. For example the Hughes GAEB0A and the Phillips DSX 5550.

However, they all have their own interfaces so the tutorials on channel 1 will be meaningless to you and they don't support any of the interactive features like the Score Guide, Weather Channel's Local on the 8s, DirecTV Active, or the discounts that occasionally appear on channels 110 and 111. (Some of them are just promos for shows, but sometimes they have promotions that give you coupons for free or discounted things at stores and restauraunts)


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Dude111 said:


> Im sorry everybody....... I just dont like good things getting worse!


Hey, it's all right. Treat yourself and upgrade entirely to an HD system all around. It's almost Christmas!!!


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

KyL416 said:


> If for whatever reason you hate the D1x series enough to refuse the free upgrade there are some pre-D1x APG receivers still out there you might be able to purchase in the Buy, Sell and Trade forum here or on eBay. For example the Hughes GAEB0A and the Phillips DSX 5550.
> 
> However, they all have their own interfaces so the tutorials on channel 1 will be meaningless to you and they don't support any of the interactive features like the Score Guide, Weather Channel's Local on the 8s, DirecTV Active, or the discounts that occasionally appear on channels 110 and 111. (Some of them are just promos for shows, but sometimes they have promotions that give you coupons for free or discounted things at stores and restauraunts)


They one had a free shampoo (full size) with that.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

KyL416 said:


> If for whatever reason you hate the D1x series enough to refuse the free upgrade there are some pre-D1x APG receivers still out there you might be able to purchase in the Buy, Sell and Trade forum here or on eBay. For example the Hughes GAEB0A and the Phillips DSX 5550.


The problem with upgrading obsolete equipment to the oldest not-obsolete equipment is that those receivers will likely be next to become obsolete next time Directv changes something. Who knows when, but it'll happen, and then he'd have to go through this all over again.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Hey, it's all right. Treat yourself and upgrade entirely to an HD system all around. It's almost Christmas!!!


I don't think he's an HD fan.


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## Joe Tylman (Dec 13, 2012)

slice1900 said:


> The problem with upgrading obsolete equipment to the oldest not-obsolete equipment is that those receivers will likely be next to become obsolete next time Directv changes something. Who knows when, but it'll happen, and then he'd have to go through this all over again.


MPEG-4 but he's got a few years


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> The problem with upgrading obsolete equipment to the oldest not-obsolete equipment is that those receivers will likely be next to become obsolete next time Directv changes something. Who knows when, but it'll happen, and then he'd have to go through this all over again.


I actually think that wouldn't be a worry. The next big conversion will be SD goes away entirely to HD so it wouldn't really matter if it was a D series or an older APG SD receiver. I can't see any incremental steps before that.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

How does it bring in more cash for them?

The monthly fee for additional leased receivers is the same as the mirroring fee for additional owned receivers. There is a ZERO net effect on your monthly bill.

The "get" for them isn't even in recovered bandwidth. It's saving the cost of providing and supporting the obsolete MPG guide. The people and equipment that do that cost money.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Satelliteracer said:


> I actually think that wouldn't be a worry. The next big conversion will be SD goes away entirely to HD so it wouldn't really matter if it was a D series or an older APG SD receiver. I can't see any incremental steps before that.


I've been saying this for years SR. Why have they been making and installing sd equipment all this time? The difference in price can't be much, especially compared to the eventual price of swapping sd for hd equipment (mpeg4 anyways). That includes the dishes, too.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Why? Because they still sell. Simple as that. Currently almost half of DIRECTV's customer base is SD-only and while that's shrinking, it's not shrinking fast enough for SD to go away next week.

DIRECTV continues to offer both new and existing customers good deals on HD, but at least for the moment they still activate thousands and thousands of new SD accounts every month.

The non-English-speaking market, for example, is far more enamored of SD and that's one of the few segments in the US that's actually growing.


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## longrider (Apr 21, 2007)

What I dont understand about the conversion to MPEG4 is why they are still installing MPEG2 equipment in new installs. Install all MPEG4, if you dont subscribe to HD service the output is locked to 480i. The advantage to DirecTV would be twofold, when a customer upgrades to HD it would take a phone call and a couple keystrokes instead of a truck roll, and normal churn would take care of a good chunk of the upcoming swapout


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Without having the actual numbers in front of me, I suspect that MPEG2 equipment is still cheaper to install and that the difference is significant enough that needlessly installing MPEG4 equipment would affect the bottom line.

As far as I know, when DIRECTV lights up new markets (which is rare now) they are all MPEG4 and DIRECTV is slowly transitioning existing markets to MPEG4 SD locals. So you'd say, what about all the writeoffs due to transitioning people from MPEG2 to MPEG4? See, when DIRECTV transitions a market to MPEG4, they have a massive bump in HD adoption, people figure "now's the time" so in fact it may generate _more_ profit to put in MPEG2 equipment when it's all that's needed, despite the attendant costs of new equipment.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

studechip said:


> I've been saying this for years SR. Why have they been making and installing sd equipment all this time? The difference in price can't be much, especially compared to the eventual price of swapping sd for hd equipment (mpeg4 anyways). That includes the dishes, too.


The simple reason is because people still want them. You would be surprised how many people still have only SD televisions in their home and want a basic service only. The cost differential is actually pretty significant when you go from SD to HD, both in receivers and in dish. To make that SAC investment up front on someone that has no intention of going to HD is an upside down transaction that takes years to make back. Eventually that will change, just not there yet where the numbers make sense, but getting much closer.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Satelliteracer said:


> The simple reason is because people still want them. You would be surprised how many people still have only SD televisions in their home and want a basic service only. The cost differential is actually pretty significant when you go from SD to HD, both in receivers and in dish. To make that SAC investment up front on someone that has no intention of going to HD is an upside down transaction that takes years to make back. Eventually that will change, just not there yet where the numbers make sense, but getting much closer.


You just said yourself that the next big conversion will be elimination of sd signals. That means everyone with sd equipment will need to be upgraded to mpeg4. Since it's an eventuality, why not do it now? Those who don't want hd don't have to have it, but they will need mpeg4 equipment at some point if what you say is true.
Edit: The cost differential you mention will be absorbed with the additional truck rolls necessary to swap out the remaining sd customers. If it's going to happen at some point, it makes no sense not to do it at the original install.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I believe he answered that, and I believe that he wouldn't have answered as he did if the cost of the truck rolls outweighed the savings in receivers.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

HarleyD said:


> How does it bring in more cash for them?
> 
> The monthly fee for additional leased receivers is the same as the mirroring fee for additional owned receivers. There is a ZERO net effect on your monthly bill.
> 
> The "get" for them isn't even in recovered bandwidth. It's saving the cost of providing and supporting the obsolete MPG guide. The people and equipment that do that cost money.


Yeah in the immediate it costs them money to give out all the new boxes they need to for this.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

and in the long run they get the HD Access fee and possibly a DVR fee as well.


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## Old_School (Nov 29, 2011)

Do they even sell SD TV's anymore?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

studechip said:


> You just said yourself that the next big conversion will be elimination of sd signals. That means everyone with sd equipment will need to be upgraded to mpeg4. Since it's an eventuality, why not do it now? Those who don't want hd don't have to have it, but they will need mpeg4 equipment at some point if what you say is true.
> Edit: The cost differential you mention will be absorbed with the additional truck rolls necessary to swap out the remaining sd customers. If it's going to happen at some point, it makes no sense not to do it at the original install.


Unfortunately the cost for going all mpeg4 now vs latter when they will actually transition is probably millions of dollars more expensive to do now rather than latter because latter is likely five years down the road. And I wouldn't be surprised if we see another generation if equipment first as well. If not do it at this point till the equipment not only did moeg4 but also whatever is next for when 4k hits so you don't have to do that transition again as well.

I think we may indeed see some new equipment in the next 24 months that will be the first line of stuff expected to be used in the move to installing only mpeg4 equipment based on some of the stuff we saw in the investors call last week. But that's just my guess.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

studechip said:


> You just said yourself that the next big conversion will be elimination of sd signals. That means everyone with sd equipment will need to be upgraded to mpeg4. Since it's an eventuality, why not do it now? Those who don't want hd don't have to have it, but they will need mpeg4 equipment at some point if what you say is true.
> Edit: The cost differential you mention will be absorbed with the additional truck rolls necessary to swap out the remaining sd customers. If it's going to happen at some point, it makes no sense not to do it at the original install.


Unfortunately the cost for going all mpeg4 now vs latter when they will actually transition is probably millions of dollars more expensive to do now rather than latter because latter is likely five years down the road. And I wouldn't be surprised if we see another generation if equipment first as well. If not do it at this point till the equipment not only did moeg4 but also whatever is next for when 4k hits so you don't have to do that transition again as well.

I think we may indeed see some new equipment in the next 24 months that will be the first line of stuff expected to be used in the move to installing only mpeg4 equipment based on some of the stuff we saw in the investors call last week. But that's just my guess.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Satelliteracer said:


> The simple reason is because people still want them. You would be surprised how many people still have only SD televisions in their home and want a basic service only.


I think this is the root cause of Dude's exasperation.... if it ain't broke, why fix or replace it?

This still kinda surprises me. I was expected at least one HDTV in a household as the main television, but the auxiliary televisions would be SD only, and replaced when they broke.

What is the expected lifespan of a television anyways? 10-15 years? My issue is that both of the bedroom televisions are HDTVs, but the main downstairs TV is still a 1999 SDTV that works fine, yet my mother has declined my offer to pay for a replacement. "Don't spend the money" she says.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Mark Holtz said:


> I think this is the root cause of Dude's exasperation.... if it ain't broke, why fix or replace it?


The MPG guide system IS broken. It's missing channels because of capacity/memory issues, part time RSNs, PPV Event channels and sports alternates don't show up in the guide until the channel goes live, channels that require a subchannel are not available, among other things. And like SatelliteRacer said, even with all those limitations, the MPG guide system takes a lot of bandwidth that could be used elsewhere.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Mark Holtz said:


> I think this is the root cause of Dude's exasperation.... if it ain't broke, why fix or replace it?
> 
> This still kinda surprises me. I was expected at least one HDTV in a household as the main television, but the auxiliary televisions would be SD only, and replaced when they broke.
> 
> What is the expected lifespan of a television anyways? 10-15 years? My issue is that both of the bedroom televisions are HDTVs, but the main downstairs TV is still a 1999 SDTV that works fine, yet my mother has declined my offer to pay for a replacement. "Don't spend the money" she says.


It was repeated again recently that the takeup rate on all advanced services (HD, DVR, Connected Home) is about 52%. This includes people with SD DVRs. So it's fair to say that fewer than half of people have HD service.

This doesn't mean they don't have HDTVs. After all, every TV made since 2008 has had a digital tuner and with very few exceptions that means HD. However, you would be amazed by the number of people who say they either can't tell or don't care about the difference between SD and HD.

With commercial accounts it's even more pronounced since the pricing structure is so different and a lot of people couldn't tell anyway if that 32" TV is HD when they are 20' away.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> ...As far as I know, when DIRECTV lights up new markets (which is rare now) they are all MPEG4 and *DIRECTV is slowly transitioning existing markets to MPEG4 SD locals. *


Hey, lost me there Stuart;

How is DIRECTV actually transitioning existing markets to MPEG-4 SD locals?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

studechip said:


> You just said yourself that the next big conversion will be elimination of sd signals. That means everyone with sd equipment will need to be upgraded to mpeg4. Since it's an eventuality, why not do it now? Those who don't want hd don't have to have it, but they will need mpeg4 equipment at some point if what you say is true.
> Edit: The cost differential you mention will be absorbed with the additional truck rolls necessary to swap out the remaining sd customers. If it's going to happen at some point, it makes no sense not to do it at the original install.


Replacing SD with HD was an eventuality five years ago, so by that logic they should have stopped installing SD only systems back then 

The cost of the truck rolls to upgrade the remaining SD customers only comes into play for those customers who are still with Directv, and living in the same place, when they finally decide to dump MPEG2 or SD. If they don't do that for five more years, that may cut down the number of truck rolls quite a bit.

In addition to that, what they install in 2013 might not be what you need on your roof in 2017, so they might have to do a truck roll anyway. When they have a target date for when want to be MPEG4 only or HD only, and reach a point where the dish/LNB combo they're installing at the time isn't going to change before then, that would be the point where they may start installing a SWM HD dish even for new SD installs.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2,

Market by market, SD locals are going from MPEG2 to MPEG4. It's a slow process. Customers in those areas are given the option of getting a free Slimline dish with an H25 or R22 receiver locked to SD mode, or upgrading to full HD.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> HoTat2,
> 
> Market by market, SD locals are going from MPEG2 to MPEG4. It's a slow process. Customers in those areas are given the option of getting a free Slimline dish with an H25 or R22 receiver locked to SD mode, or upgrading to full HD.


You mean there are local markets which formally had MPEG-2 SD feeds on Ku 101 or 119 which have been discontinued for MPEG-4 Ka band ones?

I wasn't aware DIRECTV ever did this, dropping Ku MPEG-2 SD feeds this way outside of the transition of the former 72.5 customers.

Can you name a local market which has done this as an example?


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

KyL416 said:


> The MPG guide system IS broken. It's missing channels because of capacity/memory issues, part time RSNs, PPV Event channels and sports alternates don't show up in the guide until the channel goes live, channels that require a subchannel are not available, among other things. And like SatelliteRacer said, even with all those limitations, the MPG guide system takes a lot of bandwidth that could be used elsewhere.


You and I who are technically in the know (which is part of the point of DBSTalk :grin: ) know that it is broken and technically obsolete. Now, try telling that to some of the folks who aren't technically inclined. The receiver boots up, it's displays the programs, and the guide works. Why should it be replaced?

The same thing will be happening with Windows XP. There are people who have several-year-old computers which is running Windows XP that satisfied their needs for email, web browsing, and word processing. They have no compelling reason to upgrade to the latest version, especially since the version that is available to consumers, Windows 8, is much hated. You and I know that Windows XP will receive no more security patches in 112 days.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Mark Holtz said:


> I think this is the root cause of Dude's exasperation.... if it ain't broke, why fix or replace it?


Exactly my friend!!

Why get rid of a perfectly good IRD for nothing??

I DONT NEED THE GUIDE,I CAN GOTO www.directv.com/guide to see whats on!!!

I like the fact that channels DO NOT SHOW UP UNTIL THEY HAVE ACTIVITY!! (Stupid to have channels in the guide THAT HAVE NOTHING!)

Im really hopefull they WILL NOT remove the channels from the MPG side.. (YES MAYBE THE GUIDE DATA WILL BE GONE BUT THE CHANNELS WILL STILL BE THERE WITH "REGULAR SCHEDULE" BEING DISPLAYED INSTEAD OF WHATS ON) Like I said you can goto DTVs website to see the guide,you dont need to see it there!!



Satelliteracer said:


> The simple reason is because people still want them. You would be surprised how many people still have only SD televisions in their home and want a basic service only.


Exactly.........I am one of them!!

I have alwyas watched SD and I like it..... HD IS TOO WIDE and doesnt look good...... SD is fine..... This IS A TV,not a theater!!!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

_*Please make your points without SHOUTING. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!)*_


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Dude111 said:


> Exactly my friend!!
> 
> Why get rid of a perfectly good IRD for nothing??
> 
> ...


Hmm, first time I've heard that. Too wide? How close do you sit to the television? Doesn't look good? Well, not on an sd set!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect that. Dude111 is representative of the roughly 10 million subscriber homes who have not upgraded to HD. That's more subscriber homes than most of the pay-TV operators have *total.* Think about that.

That said, DIRECTV spent a lot of time offering free replacements to those with MPG receivers, and put off the cutover for about a year. I think they're serious this time, and I don't think they'll let people with MPG receivers just use them with no guide data. I think it's the end of the line for those pre-2003 receivers.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

And ten years in electronics is about forty years in automobile's age.... or a hundred in (unimproved) houses.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect that. Dude111 is representative of the roughly 10 million subscriber homes who have not upgraded to HD. That's more subscriber homes than most of the pay-TV operators have *total.* Think about that.
> 
> That said, DIRECTV spent a lot of time offering free replacements to those with MPG receivers, and put off the cutover for about a year. I think they're serious this time, and I don't think they'll let people with MPG receivers just use them with no guide data. I think it's the end of the line for those pre-2003 receivers.


Well I would agree Stuart that Dude111 is certainly entitled to his views on why he chooses not to upgrade to HD.

However his frequent past assertions that the replacement receiver freely offered in the MPG swap out program, in this case a D12, is a "POS" compared to what he has now is totally without merit.

He has never offered any actual proof the D12 is inferior at all beyond mere dogmatic assertions usually posted in exclaimed capitalizations, to which therefore must to be taken as little more than trolling by him on this point sorry to say.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Dude111 said:


> Why get rid of a perfectly good IRD for nothing??
> 
> I DONT NEED THE GUIDE,I CAN GOTO www.directv.com/guide to see whats on!!!
> 
> ...


There's a very good reason why these receivers will no longer work when the MPG guide goes away, rather than just not being able to display a guide but still allowing you to enter say "206" on your receiver to go to ESPN. The guide does more than just display what is on, it also encodes information that tells the receiver how to find channel 206.

It isn't like the old days of analog TV where channel 8 was at a specific frequency so you could just change to a channel. Directv can and does move channels around all the time for various reasons, but we never see it because the guide and receiver hide that detail from us. Directv has multiple satellites and broadcasts on several frequency ranges, if instead of entering "206" in your remote you needed to enter information to tell it "satellite 101, odd polarity, transponder 11, VPID 0064" it would be a lot more of a pain!

Because of this, once Directv stops broadcasting the old format guide that this receiver can understand, it will no longer know how to find any channels.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

And don't forget without guide data the box can't tell which channels you are supposed to get in your package. 

As someone else suggested if you really want the older style guide but with the newer guide data then look for a used box on eBay.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Dude111 is representative of the roughly 10 million subscriber homes who have not upgraded to HD.
> 
> That said, DIRECTV spent a lot of time offering free replacements to those with MPG receivers, and put off the cutover for about a year. I think they're serious this time, and I don't think they'll let people with MPG receivers just use them with no guide data. I think it's the end of the line for those pre-2003 receivers.


Yes and its sad Stu...... There is a reason they are forcing everyone off these BETTER boxs.... Its really upsetting...... Im afraid of losing what I have which is excellent and getting something thats NOT AS GOOD which is how things have gone the last 20 years or so.....

Im sorry about my use of capitals...... I am not yelling @ anyone,i just want my stuff to stand out more I guess!!


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Dude111 said:


> Yes and its sad Stu...... There is a reason they are forcing everyone off these BETTER boxs.... Its really upsetting...... Im afraid of losing what I have which is excellent and getting something thats NOT AS GOOD which is how things have gone the last 20 years or so.....
> 
> Im sorry about my use of capitals...... I am not yelling @ anyone,i just want my stuff to stand out more I guess!!


Okay then, _*be specific*_ and tell us what is better about the old boxes and what is worse about the new ones.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

studechip said:


> Okay then, _*be specific*_ and tell us what is better about the old boxes and what is worse about the new ones.


Since he has to switch to a new box or lose service, what choice does he have?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

The options are you either go HD/MPEG4 or go home...its 2013, almost 2014....SD is a dying service....you really wont have any choice at all very soon.....its really hard to believe that anyone with any passion whatsoever for television has not run away from SD by now.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Curtis0620 said:


> Since he has to switch to a new box or lose service, what choice does he have?


He doesn't. I would like him to enumerate his reasons instead of just complaining.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

Dude111 said:


> Yes and its sad Stu...... There is a reason they are forcing everyone off these BETTER boxs.... Its really upsetting...... Im afraid of losing what I have which is excellent and getting something thats NOT AS GOOD which is how things have gone the last 20 years or so.....
> 
> Im sorry about my use of capitals...... I am not yelling @ anyone,i just want my stuff to stand out more I guess!!





studechip said:


> Okay then, _*be specific*_ and tell us what is better about the old boxes and what is worse about the new ones.


Actually I am more curious as to what this "reason for forcing everyone" off these boxes is. Just what kind of skullduggery is in play here?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

studechip said:


> He doesn't. I would like him to enumerate his reasons instead of just complaining.


+1

And he can start with the D12, its free replacement.

Exactly what makes it inferior to your current beloved old MPG based receiver?


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> Actually I am more curious as to what this "reason for forcing everyone" off these boxes is. Just what kind of skullduggery is in play here?


There is no skullduggery...if you have been following along, there will be no guide data for them anymore, rendering them nearly useless....if you havent, may be go back and read the numerous threads about the how and the why and the when.....


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

HarleyD said:


> Actually I am more curious as to what this "reason for forcing everyone" off these boxes is. Just what kind of skullduggery is in play here?


Well we can only go by what they tell us, so you will have to take it for what it is worth;

But according to DIRECTV's "Broadcast Operations" engineering (from a source there I'm not at liberty to say) in a nutshell the old MPG guide is now obsolete, inefficient, bandwidth hogging, and too expensive to maintain, for the actual number of subscribers still using it in their estimation.

Thus, they are shutting it down.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> The options are you either go HD/MPEG4 or go home...its 2013, almost 2014....SD is a dying service....you really wont have any choice at all very soon.....its really hard to believe that anyone with any passion whatsoever for television has not run away from SD by now.


Well, his option is actually to get a SD replacement for free. No one is forcing any of these MPG customers to take an HD receiver.

For the record, some DMAs started to lose some channels today. This will continue the next few days. By next week, I expect most if not all of the channels to be removed.

Think about it, some of these receivers are from 1994 and it's 2013. They had a very good run, but dedicating resources to receivers that only exist by the handful was eventually going to lead to this decision.

Too much bandwidth allocated. Whenever an update was done at the broadcast center, you have to make sure the lowest common denominator (MPG) could use it. Separate training for agents. Different local channel numbers than 99.9% of the rest of the customer base. Etc, etc. It's a cost of maintaining, cost of bandwidth, cost of servicing, training, and more. I think if they could have retired them 5 years they would, but they let attrition do its thing and to impact as few customers as possible. I remember when all NFL and MLB customers were forced to switch 4 or 5 years ago because they could no longer broadcast those services on those MPG receivers. The boxes simply weren't designed for a world with this many channels broadcasting, and thus those were cut along with many pay per view and other channels.


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

I can tell you something that is better with my old Sony than my mother's D12, or my brother's variety of receivers. It is the remote. The new remotes are an absolute joke.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

HarleyD said:


> Actually I am more curious as to what this "reason for forcing everyone" off these boxes is. Just what kind of skullduggery is in play here?


Don't worry; Oliver Stone is working on the screen treatment.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

LynnW said:


> I can tell you something that is better with my old Sony than my mother's D12, or my brother's variety of receivers. It is the remote. The new remotes are an absolute joke.


Many, many people like the new remotes, I among them.

What is your specific problem(s)?


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

They are already clearing the MPG side.. All LOCAL CHANNELS now say "REGULAR SCHEDULE" if your watching on the MPG side....


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

So are you going to tell us why your old receiver is so good and why the new Directv equipment is a POS?


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Like I said I dont care about the blasted guide!!!!!!!!!!

*I do not wanna lose my good box!!!!* (I can get the guide online!!)


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Dude111, as I said I sympathize but I think it's time to accept that there isn't a lot of choice.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

If you don't care about the guide then the old box isn't any better or worse than the new ones.

And not once have you ever said why you think a new box is not as good anyway. Even though you've been asked a bunch of times. You are surely entitled to your opinion but we'd like to hear the reason for it, which you've never once given.


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

Laxguy said:


> Many, many people like the new remotes, I among them.
> 
> What is your specific problem(s)?


The number key pad is at the bottom of the remote. I find that makes it hard to operate with one hand. Every one of the numerous remotes for various tvs, and vcrs have the key pad in the middle or at the top. I'll be getting used to a new one soon when the new receiver arrives.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

LynnW said:


> The number key pad is at the bottom of the remote. I find that makes it hard to operate with one hand. Every one of the numerous remotes for various tvs, and vcrs have the key pad in the middle or at the top. I'll be getting used to a new one soon when the new receiver arrives.


the numbers keypad is at the bottom of both


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

peds48 said:


> the numbers keypad is at the bottom of both


I'm not sure I understand. I know the keypad will be at the bottom of the remote for the new receiver. The keypad was not at the bottom of the remotes for my Sony receivers.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

LynnW said:


> I'm not sure I understand. I know the keypad will be at the bottom of the remote for the new receiver. The keypad was not at the bottom of the remotes for my Sony receivers.


I was referring to the DirecTV remotes. Did not know you had such old remotes


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

The good news: Once you're set up, have customized Guide, Quicktune configured, a Playlist populated, you won't need the keypad a lot. At least that's my experience. I am also able to use the keypad with one hand, but realize it may be difficult for others.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Dude111 said:


> Like I said I dont care about the blasted guide!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> *I do not wanna lose my good box!!!!* (I can get the guide online!!)


My box can access youtube and Pandora, can yours? Makes is very convenient to not have to go to the computer.

I love the Scoreguide.

And Really! You are going to look for guide data elsewhere. Why in the world would you go to that extreme?


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

CCarncross said:


> There is no skullduggery...if you have been following along, there will be no guide data for them anymore, rendering them nearly useless....if you havent, may be go back and read the numerous threads about the how and the why and the when.....


I'm fully aware of that and have been following along. The OP is asserting that _*"There is a reason they are forcing everyone off these BETTER boxs.... Its really upsetting" *_as if there is some perceived conspiracy at play.

I want to know just what he thinks DirecTV is up to beyond simply replacing obsolete equipment and technology with the current stuff.


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## HarleyD (Aug 31, 2006)

When this was announced lo these many months ago the writing was on the wall for my old RCA boxes in the office and the laundry room. 

I looked at it then (and continue to) as being no different than the discontinuation of analog broadcasts and the obsolescence of NTSC tuners.

The powers that implemented the change provided equipment at no charge to the individuals in order to facilitate the transition. The FCC provided vouchers to obtain ATSC converter boxes and DirecTV is providing APG compatible SD replacement equipment (usually a D12).

As it turns out I took both of those old RCAs out of service before they took them out of service for me...just as I upgraded a couple of my NTSC/SD televisions.

I would not term the old RCA boxes as better. Faster? Maybe. But my TV tuner was even faster than the old RCA boxes. I attribute much of it to the fact that each of those is actually doing less than its' more advanced successors in the form of parsing larger amounts of more sophisticated data before they able to decode and display actual programming.

People are resistant to change by nature. I'm no different but each of us tend to pick our poison. Different folks are more receptive to certain types of change and less receptive to others.

The principle of being forced to change against your will is a tough one for a lot of people to swallow also. We all like our autonomy.

The transition will come and go and people will adapt...or they won't. But I have no issue with DirecTV's reasons for and implementation of this transition.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

If the complaint is the remote, there are plenty of universal remotes that control DIRECTV equipment. Your favorite electronics retailer or even your local drugstore will have them.


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

So Dude, you aren't going to tell us what's so good about your box and so bad about the newer Directv boxes? Why not?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm hoping that the elimination of the old guide data brings us some new guide data, like episode and seasons numbers for series.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

As of today, all DMAs with MPG locals have been removed meaning no more local channels for MPG receivers. Many other channels have also been removed, but some still remain. Still expect next week to have the remainder removed.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Satelliteracer said:


> As of today, all DMAs with MPG locals have been removed meaning no more local channels for MPG receivers. Many other channels have also been removed, but some still remain. Still expect next week to have the remainder removed.


Does this mean that his receiver can not tune to those channels any longer?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Can't imagine it'd be otherwise!


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Curtis0620 said:


> Does this mean that his receiver can not tune to those channels any longer?


I believe the person would get an error message because the programming could not be found. My understanding is next week, none of the channels will be tunable except for channel 341 slide directing the last remaining customers to call and receive their free SD receiver exchange. Essentially, no channels will be available except for channel 341 next week. At least that is my understanding.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Hopefully, this will bring this issue to closure. My eyes were ringing from all of the yelling.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Discuss the topic, NOT other members. I did a little cleanup and it's time to let it go.

:backtotop

Mike


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

studechip said:


> So Dude, you aren't going to tell us what's so good about your box and so bad about the newer Directv boxes? Why not?


1) No Spam in the guide!! -- I DONT WANNA SEE ADs WHEN IM LOOKING AT THE GUIDE!

2) Faster than newer boxs (Im pretty sure any new boxs wont be just as fast (Responding to commands,changing channels,etc))

Does anyone that had an RCA box think the new one is *AS GOOD* as the RCA box??

I dont want to happen to my DTV box what happend to my TIME WARNER BOX! (Went from excellent to garbage when they forced this navigator crap on us)


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## studechip (Apr 16, 2012)

Well the guide clutter is definitely a PIA, I agree with that. Otherwise, your arguments are specious at best.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

The h25 (but it's Hi Definition) is the fastest DIRECTV box ever made.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

New box, Mongo say way better. Set up custom guide. No clutter.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

Custom guide??

Does that mean NO ADS IN IT?

The way I see it is this: When they finally want to move everything to MPEG4 Then I will need a new box because I do not think my RCA box has codecs for MPEG4... 

But I will remember H25..


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

I found another reason my old Sony receivers were better than the new receiver I just got. They had user's manuals. My new tv didn't have a user's manual, either. Based on this sample size of two, I have concluded that electronics manufacturers are no longer including manuals. :sure: I find having to go download and print a manual to be annoying. :bang


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## moghedien (Dec 3, 2007)

Curtis0620 said:


> My box can access youtube and Pandora, can yours? Makes is very convenient to not have to go to the computer.
> 
> I love the Scoreguide.
> 
> And Really! You are going to look for guide data elsewhere. Why in the world would you go to that extreme?


He will not need an online guide, because his receiver will not be able to tune any channels once the mpg giide is taken down. The guide does two things. One, it tells you on the screen where your program is, and it tells the LNB which transponder to tune in order to get the desired channel. Whatever the preceived advantages the mpg receiver has over the d12 now, the mpg receiver will not work at all once the guide is no longer being transmitted.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

LynnW said:


> I found another reason my old Sony receivers were better than the new receiver I just got. They had user's manuals. My new tv didn't have a user's manual, either. Based on this sample size of two, I have concluded that electronics manufacturers are no longer including manuals. :sure: I find having to go download and print a manual to be annoying. :bang


Based on a much wider sample, your conclusion is correct! 
Unclear on whether there's an implied smilie after your last sentence. I myself, being a good custodian of our trees, would never print out a manual.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Dude111 said:


> Custom guide??
> 
> Does that mean NO ADS IN IT?
> 
> ...


Basically, if you remove the channel just below the ad, the ad goes away. And generally those channels are ones that aren't an issue to delete.


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## LynnW (Jul 9, 2012)

Laxguy said:


> Based on a much wider sample, your conclusion is correct!
> Unclear on whether there's an implied smilie after your last sentence. I myself, being a good custodian of our trees, would never print out a manual.


Trees used for paper pulp are grown as a crop like any other agricultural crop. Using these farm grown trees for paper is actually less damaging to the environment than recycling paper. Using the land for tree farms probably is better than any other use. The trees are a better carbon sink than any thing else grown on that land.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Don't disagree, but using no trees at all is better. 

I do wonder how the decrease in paper for print (newspapers mostly) has changed the landscape for paper products.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

LynnW said:


> I found another reason my old Sony receivers were better than the new receiver I just got. They had user's manuals. My new tv didn't have a user's manual, either. Based on this sample size of two, I have concluded that electronics manufacturers are no longer including manuals. :sure: I find having to go download and print a manual to be annoying. :bang


One of the facts of the Internet age was that I could read the manual of an electronics device prior to purchasing it to see if it had the features that I needed. Plus, you can read it on a tablet.

But, yeah, not including more than a quick start manual and including the full manual as a download or CD, that's smacks of cost cutting. But, it's GREEN! :bang


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

For residential customers, all channels are now off the guide except channel 100 and 341 for these MPG receivers.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

I'm guessing that very few people every bother reading manuals anymore, until they run into a problem if then even.


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## Dude111 (Aug 6, 2010)

> For residential customers, all channels are now off the guide except channel 100 and 341 for these MPG receivers.


Which shows they are forcing everyone off these better boxs....... (They could leave them up with no data)

I dunno if I care about TV enough to accept something thats NOT AS GOOD......

99% of whats on TV now is garbage....


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Dude111 said:


> Which shows they are forcing everyone off these better boxs....... (They could leave them up with no data)
> 
> I dunno if I care about TV enough to accept something thats NOT AS GOOD......
> 
> 99% of whats on TV now is garbage....


You have no idea how the other boxes are, do you?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, I think this thread has run its course. If you have any specific issues upgrading from an MPG receiver to a newer one, please start a new thread.


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