# Interesting comments on DirecTV and Retention



## hoopsbwc34 (Aug 13, 2002)

> White said that even as DirecTV looks to hold onto subscribers, it is being judicious in terms of deals aimed at retention.
> 
> "We are making conscious choices for the bottom-end customers to not chase business that we don't think we can get a profit on, a return on capital on," he said.


http://www.mediapost.com/publicatio...eo-says-blackouts-may-be-necessary-but-n.html

Seems it may get harder to get those good deals though retention.


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## onebadmofo (May 24, 2012)

Well can't blame him.

Years back Sprint did the same thing. That said, look at Sprint nowadays....:nono2:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Most companies would look at this as a smart business practice.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

> "We are making conscious choices for the bottom-end customers to not chase business that we don't think we can get a profit on, a return on capital on," he said.


We obviously don't know the exact definition of "bottom-end customers" but in my case I seem to qualify with 14 years perfect payment history with an average of about $140 per month. Giving DISH a 2-year tryout is looking better all the time.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

"Bottom-end" customers are those from whom DirecTV has minimal NOI, meaning they have paid low monthly fees over a long term and have had investments in equipment. So if you are a low-tier subscriber who doesn't have premiums or sports packages, and has scored discounts on programming and receiver or other upgrades, consider yourself "bottom-end." And don't expect DirecTV to want to hold on to you when you call Retention. The CSR will be looking at a screen that identifies you as someone they don't necessarily want to keep.

P.S. That would describe me.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

Jon J said:


> Giving DISH a 2-year tryout is looking better all the time.


It's my understanding that DISH doesn't even have a Retention Dept. There is a DIRT team that monitors this board, not sure how much leverage they have in that regards. Personally, DISH comes in last as far as TV programming options, behind TWC, DirecTV, and antenna/streaming due to no HD locals, RSNs, and the pending loss of AMC. Award winning DVRs are a moot point when I can't record what I want. YMMV, of course.

I would say paying $140/mo. should provide some perks. Is that just TV or are you doing satellite internet too? I, on other hand, sub to Choice Select and HD Extra, so I won't expect Retention to bend over backwards if/when I call to cancel.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Jon J said:


> We obviously don't know the exact definition of "bottom-end customers" but in my case I seem to qualify with 14 years perfect payment history with an average of about $140 per month. Giving DISH a 2-year tryout is looking better all the time.


That's the irritating part, isn't it? You'd think any cable/sat provider would want to hold onto a long term customer with that much average payment, yet we see reports all the time that indicate that for all the talk about how it really isn't just a crap shoot, in reality it appears that way to the individual trying to get that great deal.

From my personal point of view, both Dish and DirecTV provide nearly the same channel lineup (including HD), an HD picture that most can't tell much difference between, and good, solid equipment. Both have their quirks, both have their really great things. So which one I'm with is just which one is giving me the best bang for my buck!

That said, if you are a big sports fan of some sports, then DirecTV is the best choice. For other sports, not much difference imo. And then there is the AMC issue that the Dish folks are facing these days. That may or may not turn out to be a really big deal for very long.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

bidger said:


> Is that just TV or are you doing satellite internet too? I, on other hand, sub to Choice Select and HD Extra, so I won't expect Retention to bend over backwards if/when I call to cancel.


Four HD DVRs three of which I own, PP, Choice Extra Classic and always at least one premium movie channel, usually STARZ. No sports oriented extras and I've never ordered a pay-per-view. Obviously I don't subscribe to the high-profit items so to DirecTV I'm not a particularly attractive customer.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

i guess directv got tired of giving out equipment and freebies to all the customers that thought they were entitled just because.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Jon J said:


> We obviously don't know the exact definition of "bottom-end customers" but in my case I seem to qualify with 14 years perfect payment history with an average of about $140 per month. Giving DISH a 2-year tryout is looking better all the time.


Just what makes you think you are a bottom end customer?

I would think they are talking about not throwing deals at people who have the absolute basic packages. $140 a month sounds pretty much middle of the road to me.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

tonyd79 said:


> Just what makes you think you are a bottom end customer?


Comparing the offers I have recently received when inquiring about upgrading to an HR34 with those reported here.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

Ira Lacher said:


> "Bottom-end" customers are those from whom DirecTV has minimal NOI, meaning they have paid low monthly fees over a long term and have had investments in equipment. So if you are a low-tier subscriber who doesn't have premiums or sports packages, and has scored discounts on programming and receiver or other upgrades, consider yourself "bottom-end." And don't expect DirecTV to want to hold on to you when you call Retention. The CSR will be looking at a screen that identifies you as someone they don't necessarily want to keep.
> 
> P.S. That would describe me.


 It describes me too. I don't subscribe to premiums, and I don't order Pay per view. I am still in the first year of my contract. But when my contract is over, I don't expect any perks for extending my contract. The only thing extra I have is the maintenance plan, and I don't know how long I will keep that.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

One key factor in the definition of any "bottom tier" revolves around payment history. Customers who don't pay their bill are certainly not seen as a "plus".

Then there are base services customers...nothing wrong there...but their monthly fees are simply less than other customers. Nothing unique there either.

In the simplest form...ranking customers based on their levels of service and payment records is nothing new or revolutionary. The OP comments related to mapping any kind of promotions in line with different tiers. Again, not unique.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

tonyd79 said:


> Just what makes you think you are a bottom end customer?





Jon J said:


> Four HD DVRs three of which I own, PP, Choice Extra Classic and always at least one premium movie channel, usually STARZ. No sports oriented extras and I've never ordered a pay-per-view. Obviously I don't subscribe to the high-profit items so to DirecTV I'm not a particularly attractive customer.


PP=Protection Plan, correct? If so, that's a point in your favor. DVR + mirroring fees on 3 units. Premium channel on a regular basis, all pluses. Legacy package, I'm sure DirecTV would love to change that. You've probably already gotten offers. I gave up TC grandfathered to get ST for the cost of Premier and a HR21 for $99 in 2008. If I had it to do over I wouldn't. I have Lifetime DVR so that doesn't count in my favor since it generates no revenue.

Still, your account looks pretty good. As you said you pay in full and on time.



Jon J said:


> Comparing the offers I have recently received when inquiring about upgrading to an HR34 with those reported here.


To be honest, if were to look at your account and see a legacy package, a premium channel, but no Premier, no Sports package or PPV, and 3 customer-owned HD-DVRs (all MPEG 4-capable, right?), one of which that could be sold to recoup the HR34 investment, I wouldn't give you the same price as someone with all leased equipment, Premier, Sports package(s), and 4 PPVs/month.


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## Skarzon (Oct 2, 2006)

As usual, YMMV, but I recently decided to switch to DISH after being with D* for over 8 years. I have a very average bill of about $90/month, PP, no premium channels and only order movies every once in a while (maybe 4/5 per year) with a crystal clear payment history. I haven't upgraded my equipment in 3 years and that was an R11 to R22 during a move (still running an HR20 as my only HD-DVR, with R22, R15 and a D11). I had inquired a couple of times about getting an HR34 and was always told it would cost $400 plus install charges for HHDVR and a new SWiM setup. 

So I called DISH yesterday, received a quote and scheduled an install. I was very happy with their offer and a bit excited to say "Hoppa" all the time . I still feel that D* is the better service, so I planned to at least listen to their pitch, but was pretty sure they couldn't come close due to all the upgrades I wanted and would be receiving by switching to DISH.

I called in to cancel and was routed to retention. Very helpful and knowledgeable rep discussed the situation and what I was getting from DISH and would want from D*. After some time on the phone, they ended up showing me how much they valued my business. It wasn't everything I wanted, but damn close. I ended up with all new equipment (HR34, HD-DVR, H24/25) except for the R22, SWiM setup, HHDVR, CCK and a couple of premiums for 6mo/1yr respectively. Final tally on my end was a new 24 month commitment and a $49.99 install fee.

I called in thinking I was going to be switching providers and ended up happy to stay with D*. It still upsets me that you have to be half way out the door before they bring the love, but I guess that's how they've chosen to do business. I understand where they are coming from, but it doesn't always give you warm fuzzies.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Jon J said:


> We obviously don't know the exact definition of "bottom-end customers" but in my case I seem to qualify with 14 years perfect payment history with an average of about $140 per month. Giving DISH a 2-year tryout is looking better all the time.


I don't think the amount you pay has anything to do with it. I think their point is if you continually demand discounts you aren't someone they can make a profit on.

Have fun with DISH!


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> I don't think the amount you pay has anything to do with it. I think their point is if you continually demand discounts you aren't someone they can make a profit on.
> 
> Have fun with DISH!


Your assumptions are unwarranted but thanks for the good wishes.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> I don't think the amount you pay has anything to do with it. I think their point is if you continually demand discounts you aren't someone they can make a profit on.
> 
> Have fun with DISH!


Most of the time you don't even have to ask for discounts on programming at least. I've never asked for any, but every time I shuffle premiums around a bit, they always offer something. Most often it is a discount on the premiums I'm dropping. Just like yesterday, since Starz doesn't have anything of interest right now and Cinemax is in the same boat, I wanted to drop them. They offered them at a discount, which I declined since I wasn't watching them anyway.

So you don't have to 'demand' discounts to get them. But frankly what they will do for upgrades and such is really a crap shoot.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Jon J said:


> Comparing the offers I have recently received when inquiring about upgrading to an HR34 with those reported here.


As others have talked about, you really have to be ready to switch when you call in and get switched to retention. That is the best deal you probably can get. With the caveat, that if you call and say cancel, they might just let you. Personally I don't that would be the case for you.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> I don't think the amount you pay has anything to do with it. I think their point is if you continually demand discounts you aren't someone they can make a profit on.


To some it's "continually demanding discounts." To others it's questioning why a longtime member in good standing, with an impeccable payment record, doesn't deserve the same consideration as a new, untested, member, who gets the tops in equipment and services, if not programming, just for signing up.


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## PK6301 (May 16, 2012)

I was with Dish for Years..They never once offered to upgrade me, They just took the money..When I did go to upgrade, I had to do the research and request the upgrade. It took them 1 week to send out a tech..(All I was getting was a DVR)..As for their retention Dept, When I called to cancel they never said a word to get me to stay, never asked for their equipment back, and never sent me a final bill..(Their Loss)

I am happy with my present set-up, so I will keep it for awhile


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## PK6301 (May 16, 2012)

Ira Lacher said:


> To some it's "continually demanding discounts." To others it's questioning why a longtime member in good standing, with an impeccable payment record, doesn't deserve the same consideration as a new, untested, member, who gets the tops in equipment and services, if not programming, just for signing up.


Sometimes its a "Loss Leader" They get you in the door with an outstanding price-then you stay and purchase more and more.. Its really a good marketing technique


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Most of the time you don't even have to ask for discounts on programming at least. I've never asked for any, but every time I shuffle premiums around a bit, they always offer something. Most often it is a discount on the premiums I'm dropping. Just like yesterday, since Starz doesn't have anything of interest right now and Cinemax is in the same boat, I wanted to drop them. They offered them at a discount, which I declined since I wasn't watching them anyway.
> 
> So you don't have to 'demand' discounts to get them. But frankly what they will do for upgrades and such is really a crap shoot.


I'm not saying there aren't offers. There are also people here that feel their entitled to a discount every couple of months and call to demand one. Those are the people they aren't likely to make a profit on.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Ira Lacher said:


> To some it's "continually demanding discounts." To others it's questioning why a longtime member in good standing, with an impeccable payment record, doesn't deserve the same consideration as a new, untested, member, who gets the tops in equipment and services, if not programming, just for signing up.


Does your utility bill go down after you've been a customer of theirs after X amount of time? Does your car payment go down after X amount of time? Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time? Does your rent go down after X amount of time? Do any of them give discounts for being a customer for X amount of time? Why would you expect DirecTV to do that?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

PK6301 said:


> Sometimes its a "Loss Leader" They get you in the door with an outstanding price-then you stay and purchase more and more.. Its really a good marketing technique


It's "Marketing 101" actually. Everyone offers new customers a better deal than existing customers to get them to become a customer. It's the way the world works.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Does your utility bill go down after you've been a customer of theirs after X amount of time? Does your car payment go down after X amount of time? Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time? Does your rent go down after X amount of time? Do any of them give discounts for being a customer for X amount of time? Why would you expect DirecTV to do that?


Really simple. Because DirecTV has made it a nearly standard option for those that ask. None of the rest of those you mention will deal at all. DirecTV probably doesn't have a single day that they don't offer rebates, discounts and upgrade deals to many someones.

And since they make the rules, we can only excercise them now and again!

That's why!!


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

tonyd79 said:


> Just what makes you think you are a bottom end customer?
> 
> I would think they are talking about not throwing deals at people who have the absolute basic packages. $140 a month sounds pretty much middle of the road to me.


I thought I'd read here on the board (maybe in one of the quarterly reports threads) that the average customer bill was around $95/month. If so, $140/month would be more on the high end.


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## MarkG21 (Jan 4, 2010)

RunnerFL said:


> Does your utility bill go down after you've been a customer of theirs after X amount of time? Does your car payment go down after X amount of time? Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time? Does your rent go down after X amount of time? Do any of them give discounts for being a customer for X amount of time? Why would you expect DirecTV to do that?


Much more bargaining power with direcTv (or any other pay tv) compared to your list. But some of those items, I'm sure you can ask for a discount.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

"Jon J" said:


> Comparing the offers I have recently received when inquiring about upgrading to an HR34 with those reported here.


Could be you just don't play the game all that well either. A lot of getting great offers Is gamesmanship.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

lparsons21 said:


> Really simple. Because DirecTV has made it a nearly standard option for those that ask. None of the rest of those you mention will deal at all. DirecTV probably doesn't have a single day that they don't offer rebates, discounts and upgrade deals to many someones.
> 
> And since they make the rules, we can only excercise them now and again!
> 
> That's why!!


Again, I'm not saying there aren't offers... If you re-read my original post I was pointing out that there are customers who demand discounts they probably aren't entitled to and those are the ones DirecTV is probably referring to as customers where there's no profit to be made.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

MarkG21 said:


> Much more bargaining power with direcTv (or any other pay tv) compared to your list. But some of those items, I'm sure you can ask for a discount.


Yeah, you call your power company and ask for a discount and see how far you get..


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## ICM2000 (Sep 14, 2006)

In Illinois we may now select from a number of different electric providers which have lower electric rates than the main utility (Exelon). You pay Exelon for the infrastructure and maintenance but the actual electric usage is at a much lower rate from a third party.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> Does your utility bill go down after you've been a customer of theirs after X amount of time? Does your car payment go down after X amount of time? Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time? Does your rent go down after X amount of time? Do any of them give discounts for being a customer for X amount of time?


No.

And none of those give new customers special rates or considerations either.


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## Darcaine (Aug 31, 2009)

It's the Pareto Principle or 80/20 rule in motion.

Pareto Principle (when related to business) states that roughly 80% of your profit comes from 20% of you customers, while 80% of complaints also come from 20% of your customers.

So it makes sense for D* to ignore the bottom ~20% who are eating up ~80% of their retention resources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

ICM2000 said:


> In Illinois we may now select from a number of different electric providers which have lower electric rates than the main utility (Exelon). You pay Exelon for the infrastructure and maintenance but the actual electric usage is at a much lower rate from a third party.


I'd love that. We have absolutely no choice of who provides our power down here.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Ira Lacher said:


> No.
> 
> And none of those give new customers special rates or considerations either.


Some rentals do. You can also get an introductory interest rate on a car and a house as well.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time?


Uh yeah, after the escrow has been paid off, in my case 2013.

The difference between pay TV and the other things you cite is they are necessities and satellite/cable is a luxury. Also, I have other entertainment options. I may no longer be a high-end customer, but I pay on time and in full. Plus my departure would figure in churn, something every provider tries to avoid.

The fact that two years ago new customers were offered Free HD for Life struck a bad chord with folks who were with DirecTV for a decade or more and had paid for HD access when it was still a "bakers dozen" count of channels. Part of the reason I dropped below Choice was the $10/mo. HD Access fee. A key factor in choosing DirecTV over cable was that my bill was for programming, not extras. I was being charged $6/mo. for a cable box plus 25 cents for the remote with TWC.  I paid DirecTV $199 in 2001 for Lifetime DVR on a D-TiVo. If DirecTV offered a similar option for Lifetime HD, say $80-$100, I'd consider it. But, the idea that folks who waited until there was a respectable amount of HD with better PQ and locals availability prior to signing with DirecTV having the fee waived I find rather irksome. In some ways satellite has become more like cable and vice versa.


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

tonyd79 said:


> Could be you just don't play the game all that well either. A lot of getting great offers Is gamesmanship.


Do you define gamesmanship as the threat of cancellation whether real or as a negotiation ploy? If so, I shouldn't have to threaten to obtain their best offer and I won't go that far. If or when I do call in to cancel, the decision will have been made and there will be no negotiation.


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## bnwrx (Dec 29, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I'd love that. We have absolutely no choice of who provides our power down here.


Ditto...No choice for water,sewer,natural gas or electric here. TV provider on the other hand, now I have multiple choices. 25 years ago though there weren't any choices. You either had cable (a wopping 14 channels in my area!) or you listened to the radio for info. Really we have options now for our entertainment that we take for granted and because we have a few choices, we have the ability to play one against the other. IE: Trying to get a better deal on programming or equipment. I've done it myself, but try not to abuse it. I understand that in the end, a company has to be profitable.... Good discussion here.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Jon J said:


> Do you define gamesmanship as the threat of cancellation whether real or as a negotiation ploy? If so, I shouldn't have to threaten to obtain their best offer and I won't go that far. If or when I do call in to cancel, the decision will have been made and there will be no negotiation.


Yes, I do. I don't do it either.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

ICM2000 said:


> In Illinois we may now select from a number of different electric providers which have lower electric rates than the main utility (Exelon). You pay Exelon for the infrastructure and maintenance but the actual electric usage is at a much lower rate from a third party.


ONLY in certain areas with private utility companies such as Exelon & Ameren.
If you are served by a municipal utility co. (such as CWLP in Springfield & surrounding areas) then that option is NOT available, sorry.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

"tonyd79" said:


> Yes, I do. I don't do it either.


Do you pay sticker or asking price for a car?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

raott said:


> Do you pay sticker or asking price for a car?


Apples to oranges.

A car is far most costly and has significantly higher margin.

A car retail and wholesale price is published and/or available online, so negotiating is nearly an expectation and common practice.


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## larryah (Jul 29, 2010)

Maybe if you offer some incentive to stay, a low end customer might become a high end customer some day. Not to mention the new customers they might get to try DTV.


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## jscott70 (Feb 14, 2009)

Jon J said:


> We obviously don't know the exact definition of "bottom-end customers" but in my case I seem to qualify with 14 years perfect payment history with an average of about $140 per month. Giving DISH a 2-year tryout is looking better all the time.


If you don't care about 3d content and the Sunday Ticket, Dish is absolutely the better way to go. I find their DVR's to be MUCH faster and better and their customer service is far better as well. I just took advantage of all the latest promos so I went back to DirecTV but am keeping my dish account, albeit scaled back to the $14.99 per month welcome pack, just so I can get the gazillion recordings off onto DVD or digital format. If DirecTV gets on my nerves too badly I'll ramp my Dish account back up and scale back Direct until my 2 years is up. At this point I find DirecTV customer service to be the worst customer service I've ever experienced in my 42 years on this earth. They are mind numbingly stupid and undertrained.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Does your utility bill go down after you've been a customer of theirs after X amount of time? Does your car payment go down after X amount of time? Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time? Does your rent go down after X amount of time? Do any of them give discounts for being a customer for X amount of time? Why would you expect DirecTV to do that?


Because DirecTV has competitors as other choices. The items you cite do not.

My electric company did send me a $10 Starbucks card...


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> Does your utility bill go down after you've been a customer of theirs after X amount of time? Does your car payment go down after X amount of time? Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time? Does your rent go down after X amount of time? Do any of them give discounts for being a customer for X amount of time? Why would you expect DirecTV to do that?


I understand your point, but you are generalizing.

As mentioned about other states, in Texas we have a choice of electric providers. So its competitive and prices do fluctuate. My rates with the same provide have gone down, when I renewed for another 12 mo's.

Another example is Boost Mobile prepaid service. The monthlies go down, based on the length of time that you are a customer. Unlimited talk, text, web is $50 for the first 6 mo's, $45 for the next 6 mo's, $40 for the next 6 mo's and $35 for the as long as you are a customer.

So to answer your question, there are some providers that do go down after x amount of time.


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## bnwrx (Dec 29, 2007)

jscott70 said:


> .... At this point I find DirecTV customer service to be the worst customer service I've ever experienced in my 42 years on this earth. *They are mind numbingly stupid and undertrained.*


Hey, just a little harsh there...
Remember, they have to answer phone calls all day long, probably in a room with no windows, and have people on the other end of the line,maybe like yourself, who always know how to do their job better. Not being a fanboy, just pointing out there are always 2 sides in a conversation.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Apples to oranges.
> 
> A car is far most costly and has significantly higher margin.
> 
> A car retail and wholesale price is published and/or available online, so negotiating is nearly an expectation and common practice.


Not apples to oranges at all. If there is a competitive environment the customer has the power to negotiate (and the company has the power to say no). It seems there is a mantra with some on here that it is somehow immoral to negotiate with D*, which IMO, is utterly ridiculous.


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

mreposter said:


> I thought I'd read here on the board (maybe in one of the quarterly reports threads) that the average customer bill was around $95/month. If so, $140/month would be more on the high end.


Found it on the Directv website, 2012 1st Quarter Financial Report:

Average Monthly Revenue per Subscriber (ARPU)
2012Q1 = 91.99
2011Q1 = 88.79

FYI, another informative number from the report is Average Monthly Subscriber Churn (the % of customers that leave during the month.) It was 1.44% for the first quarter, down from 1.5% the year before.

http://investor.directv.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=671207


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

raott said:


> Not apples to oranges at all. If there is a competitive environment the customer has the power to negotiate (and the company has the power to say no). It seems there is a mantra with some on here that it is somehow immoral to negotiate with D*, which IMO, is utterly ridiculous.


I've found you can just about negotiate everything, even prices in stores. I always ask, the worst thing they can say is "no".


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

bnwrx said:


> Hey, just a little harsh there...
> Remember, they have to answer phone calls all day long, probably in a room with no windows, and have people on the other end of the line,maybe like yourself, who always know how to do their job better. Not being a fanboy, just pointing out there are always 2 sides in a conversation.


And don't forget that shift slave driver sitting in the corner beating the drum and screaming "pull".


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

RACJ2 said:


> Another example is Boost Mobile prepaid service. The monthlies go down, based on the length of time that you are a customer. Unlimited talk, text, web is $50 for the first 6 mo's, $45 for the next 6 mo's, $40 for the next 6 mo's and $35 for the as long as you are a customer.


This makes excellent sense. You price your service in such a way that it (presumably) remains cost-effective, even as you cut price for the consumer.


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

raott said:


> It seems there is a mantra with some on here that it is somehow immoral to negotiate with D*, which IMO, is utterly ridiculous.


There also seems to be a misguided notion that Directv has lousy customer service if someone doesn't get the discount they want/deserve/need. Additional factors such as your location and the strength of the competitors in a market may also factor into any discount decisions.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

cariera said:


> Additional factors such as your location and the strength of the competitors in a market may also factor into any discount decisions.


Well, that could account for some of their hardheadedness in Des Moines. No FIOS or U-Verse here. And although Mediacom has added a number of HD channels -- including a number that DirecTV doesn't carry, such as BBCA, H2 and HLN -- the cableco is still not competitive on pricing for DVR service; doesn't carry anywhere near as many premiums in HD; sports packages; MLB, NHL or NBA nets; or alternative sports channels in HD. It also has a reputation for horrid customer service. In other words, there is no competition in Des Moines except for DISH.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

billsharpe said:


> Because DirecTV has competitors as other choices. The items you cite do not.
> 
> My electric company did send me a $10 Starbucks card...


You certainly have choices for mortgage and rent at least.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

RACJ2 said:


> So to answer your question, there are some providers that do go down after x amount of time.


But you know that getting into it. With DirecTV you know your price, period. Why expect it to go down, or get credits, when you know that's not the norm?


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

RunnerFL said:


> But you know that getting into it. With DirecTV you know your price, period. Why expect it to go down, or get credits, when you know that's not the norm?


True, and personally I don't expect the price to go down, but I do hope to get credits. Those credits or equipment with no upfront cost, help reinforce my commitment to DIRECTV. And when asked about them by friends and colleagues, I say good things about how DIRECTV takes care of their good customers.


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## wingrider01 (Sep 9, 2005)

cariera said:


> There also seems to be a misguided notion that Directv has lousy customer service if someone doesn't get the discount they want/deserve/need. Additional factors such as your location and the strength of the competitors in a market may also factor into any discount decisions.


+1 - in my early years I ran a call center for a major service provider and the following pattern emerged when the numbers where run

person calls in get everything they want frm the rep = great, unmatched customer service

same person calls in again and does not get what they want = worst customer service in the world


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

raott said:


> Not apples to oranges at all. If there is a competitive environment the customer has the power to negotiate (and the company has the power to say no). It seems there is a mantra with some on here that it is somehow immoral to negotiate with D*, which IMO, is utterly ridiculous.


What is utterly ridiculous is the entitlement mentality to always get a deal, always get some kind of discount, always get what is requested.

In addition, no company supports that (especially if they want to stay in business).


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> What is utterly ridiculous is the entitlement mentality to always get a deal, always get some kind of discount, always get what is requested.
> 
> In addition, no company supports that (especially if they want to stay in business).


Exactly. Do the deal mongers barter with their other service providers (power, phone, heating fuel, ect.)? I doubt it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MysteryMan said:


> Exactly. Do the deal mongers barter with their other service providers (power, phone, heating fuel, etc.)? I doubt it.


Just to clarify...I like to get a deal just like most folks...but I don't expect it, demand it, or think one should be handed over arbitrarily. I also don't spend my time challenging others to obtain one.


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## Xsabresx (Oct 8, 2007)

RACJ2 said:


> As mentioned about other states, in Texas we have a choice of electric providers.


In YOUR part of Texas, maybe


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Exactly. Do the deal mongers barter with their other service providers (power, phone, heating fuel, ect.)? I doubt it.


I tried. Although it generally doesn't work, it surprisingly worked on heating fuel. At the very least, the CSR explains all the options they offer (some aren't even advertised) so you can make the best choice for you.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

I am not interested in bartering for deals. I believe every customer is equal to every other customer, and therefore I believe that every customer should be entitled to what other customers are receiving, for the same price.

If I have bought a lower-priced model auto from an auto dealership, why should I settle for less-skilled mechanics or a lower tier of service when I bring my car in?


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

cariera said:


> Additional factors such as your location and the strength of the competitors in a market may also factor into any discount decisions.


Absolutely. They even had marked in their subscriber system, right next to your hearts rating if you were in a FIOS area. (At least they did to when I was involved with them a few years ago - I'm sure it could have changed).


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> You certainly have choices for mortgage and rent at least.


I suppose you can pay off the mortgage or move, but that's a pretty drastic choice.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

Part of the problem has to be that DirecTV (and some other service providers) have, in the past, been willing to keep extending discounts to people who make noise. This then makes others, who didn't raise a fuss, wonder if they're being suckers and deciding that they too will do what it takes to "get theirs". That DirecTV finally realized a couple of years ago that this was not the best way to do business is, in my opinion, goodness. Giving new customers a special deal is pretty much standard throughout a lot of the business world (look at magazine subscriptions, for example), but it keeps your margins low.

Yes, I'm certainly aware that there many out there who insisted on free upgrades and discounts and got them. I choose not to go down that path.


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## Tubaman-Z (Jul 31, 2007)

MysteryMan said:


> Exactly. Do the deal mongers barter with their other service providers (power, phone, heating fuel, ect.)? I doubt it.


Phone - yep, as I have options
Heating fuel (propane for me) - yep, as I have options
Electric - nope, as I have no financially reasonable options (i.e. w/out going off the grid)

Where I have options I absolutely work with the service provider to ensure that I am obtaining the best price possible.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

It isn't about insisting on the discounts, it is that it is part of the business model that Direct has set in place. They make the rules about that, you and I had no input into that at all. I will ask for (not insist) discounts when I think it is appropriate and in my best interest. And that is because I'm the sole arbiter of what I think something is worth. Direct has a building full of accountants, marketing types, and salespeople to take care of them getting the most dollars from us. And that is what they are supposed to do.

We are also supposed to be watching out to ensure we get the most for our dollars. To do otherwise is just giving them free money! Direct said a couple of years ago that they would be scaling that back, but in the last two years it is obvious to even the most casual observer, that was just chin music. They are still using discounts to existing customers as part of their business plan, now it is up to us to get whatever discounts are available to us.

Of course, you aren't forced to do that, just as I'm not forced to ask for them.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

billsharpe said:


> I suppose you can pay off the mortgage or move, but that's a pretty drastic choice.


 You don't have to "pay off the mortgage or move" you simply have to refinance elsewhere. I get letters in the mail on a weekly basis asking me to refinance with a (they hope) better rate.


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

I find this thread very interesting.

You constantly read here about discounts received when customers threaten DirecTV with leaving etc. Perhaps they are sick of it....or maybe not.

The thing that has just *FRAZZLED* me since it started in February is the "regional sports fee" that applies willy-nilly depending on your ZIP code. In my case I HATE SPORTS and am irked enough having to pay for ESPN and other sports channels in my package that I never watch (Choice Extra Classic).

So I decided to complain. Sure enough, for 3 months the CSR credited my account the lousy $2 (+ tax) each time I called in so I decided for the principle of the thing that was what I had to do. But after three months an overseas voice read the new "script" to me instead. What a joke! The first snow job to get rid of the customer was "your STATE makes us charge the fee". OK so how come a friend of mine living 30 miles away IN THE SAME STATE doesn't have it on their bill? Oops, choose another fairy tale. "The FCC makes us charge the fee" was the next laugher. It was so funny I just couldn't get angry. Rather than listen to the entire script of phoney-baloney excuses, I simply asked when my commitment (contract) expired. I already knew I wasn't under a commitment and hadn't gotten squat in the way of any deals for years. "Oh, I'll have to transfer you to an account expert who has that information". Translation: Script says folks asking about ETF are to be transferred to retention.

Sure enough a friendly US-based man came on the line. "I have just the thing for you" he said. If you mean the Entertainment package forget it I said. It doesn't contain my favorite (non-sports) channels. So what is the procedure for canceling DirecTV and is there any ETF involved? Do I have to ship my receivers back and if so how? (In other words, I'm jumping ship after 12 years due to your lousy nickel-and-dime sports fee and I'll call you back to cancel when your competitor is up and running)

"Well, lets see what I have here for a good customer like yourself". Uh-huh. "How about free DVR service for 6 months AND $10 off your bill each month for a year?" I couldn't believe it. And I don't even have HD or any of the snazzy new money makers (whole-home, etc.) "That'll do it" I said and shocker number two was checking my account on the web and finding I really did get the credits.

So don't believe that DirecTV is letting customers "hop"  to a competitor without an attempt to keep them. Of course, I always pay my bill on time and give them plenty each month which, obviously is a big factor....


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

lparsons21 said:


> It isn't about insisting on the discounts, it is that it is part of the business model that Direct has set in place. They make the rules about that, you and I had no input into that at all. I will ask for (not insist) discounts when I think it is appropriate and in my best interest. And that is because I'm the sole arbiter of what I think something is worth. Direct has a building full of accountants, marketing types, and salespeople to take care of them getting the most dollars from us. And that is what they are supposed to do.
> 
> We are also supposed to be watching out to ensure we get the most for our dollars. To do otherwise is just giving them free money! Direct said a couple of years ago that they would be scaling that back, but in the last two years it is obvious to even the most casual observer, that was just chin music. They are still using discounts to existing customers as part of their business plan, now it is up to us to get whatever discounts are available to us.
> 
> Of course, you aren't forced to do that, just as I'm not forced to ask for them.


+3.14159 !

Exactly. For those people who people can afford not to worry about discounts or saving money, all the power to them but for most of the 99% saving a few bucks is almost a necessity and saving it on the "less important" things is even better.

ASKING for a discount is a lot different than INSISTING on a discount. The "pay the full ride because DirecTV needs the money" folks keep using the "entitlement" word. That's not it at all. I absolutely am not entitled to a discount from DirecTV or anyone but if they are willing to give me one simply for asking or writing a letter I sure as hell am not going to refuse it. Sometimes it's as simple as asking "what discounts or promos are available for me?" Of course the response from the other side will be "if you can't afford it drop the service." Not being able to afford it, or simply wanting to reduce costs, are two different things.

DirecTV made their own bed, now they have to sleep in it. All the "DirecTV protectors" surely should understand that if DirecTV wanted to stop giving discounts they could within 24 hours. It would simply take 1 training session to end it all. In fact, DirecTV in their CSR knowledge base lists dozens of discounts that are available to existing customers of which some are available to front line CSR's and some to the CRG group only. I haven't looked in quite a while since I am no longer "involved" with DirecTV but I have little doubt that page is still there.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

oh its there...see my post 


> > her system wouldn't take it for more than 12 months. She offered to add it for 12 months and give me a one time $140 instant credit. She said I would probably have to call back in 12 months to get it extended again
> 
> 
> Man i wish employees would use their resources....this offer is no longer available.....some emails went out by error and those will be honored but this person told you 24 months. The system wouldnt let her do it because SHE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO....now you'll have to call in 12 months and get pissed all over again.....wait she gave you a cash credit too so i reckon your good....


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> What is utterly ridiculous is the entitlement mentality to always get a deal, always get some kind of discount, always get what is requested.
> 
> In addition, no company supports that (especially if they want to stay in business).


I guess I'm having trouble wrapping my head around getting a deal being an "enititlement mentality". If you mean that some people think that D* owes them something, then I completely agree with you but if the point is asking for a deal (even asking a lot) is an "entitlement mentality" I disagree.

This is not a government program. It is an arms length business deal with a company I have zero vested interest in. My interest is purely getting the most advantageous deal I can for me and my family. The price I may be willing to pay, may not be what D*'s asking price is. D* is well within their rights to simply say "no" and even cut a customer loose. For example, my Sirius radio subscription expires this month, it isn't even remotely worth $16 a month to keep. There is lots of competition. I called them and told them that, they offered $5 a month, which I felt was a reasonable asking price and took it.

It is no different than the relationship D* has with their equipment providers and service providers and I would hope, for their shareholders sake (which I am not one), D* efforts to "get a deal" whenever they can, rather than simply forking over whatever the asking price is.

As to the point made by others, the difference in dealing with D* (and other service providers engaged in industries with heavy competition) as compared to essential services which are quasi-government services, with no competition and therefore heavily regulated (ie water and electric) seems obvious, but is apparently lost on some.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

raott said:


> I guess I'm having trouble wrapping my head around getting a deal being an "enititlement mentality". If you mean that some people think that D* owes them something, then I completely agree with you but if the point is asking for a deal (even asking a lot) is an "entitlement mentality" I disagree.


Demanding, expecting, or relentless pursuit are forms of entitlement mentality. It's all about the depth of "pursuit" and level of "expectation". You are right - DirecTV *owes* people the services and products they pay for.

I've raised several kids who (when they were young) asked repeatedly for something they either didn't need or deserve. That didn't stop them from asking repeatedly. Then again, they eventually grew up and discontinued that behavior.


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## WebTraveler (Apr 9, 2006)

Tubaman-Z said:


> Phone - yep, as I have options
> Heating fuel (propane for me) - yep, as I have options
> Electric - nope, as I have no financially reasonable options (i.e. w/out going off the grid)
> 
> Where I have options I absolutely work with the service provider to ensure that I am obtaining the best price possible.


On electric that's different, it's covered by rules of the public utilities commission (or whatever they call it in your state). They just cannot charge what they want. Cable has no regulation.

Basic phone from the phone company is covered by the PUC, all those up charging for special features are not.

Need to compare apples w/apples


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

TBlazer07 said:


> You don't have to "pay off the mortgage or move" you simply have to refinance elsewhere. I get letters in the mail on a weekly basis asking me to refinance with a (they hope) better rate.


Good for you, but my daughter has been trying to refinance her house mortgage for two years without success.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Demanding, expecting, or relentless pursuit are forms of entitlement mentality. It's all about the depth of "pursuit" and level of "expectation". You are right - DirecTV *owes* people the services and products they pay for.
> 
> I've raised several kids who (when they were young) asked repeatedly for something they either didn't need or deserve. That didn't stop them from asking repeatedly. Then again, they eventually grew up and discontinued that behavior.


I don't think we are that far off from each other. I view my relationship with D* as purely business and business negotiations are not entitlement. I've been in business with them since 97 because, for me, they provide far and away the best value for the price.

I will agree the "expectation" or the mindset that you are "owed" something from D* is an entitlement mindset. D* owes the customer nothing other than to provide the service contracted.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

raott said:


> I don't think we are that far off from each other. I view my relationship with D* as purely business and business negotiations are not entitlement. I've been in business with them since 97 because, for me, they provide far and away the best value for the price.
> 
> I will agree the "expectation" or the mindset that you are "owed" something from D* is an entitlement mindset. D* owes the customer nothing other than to provide the service contracted.


OK...guess we'll meet near the middle on this topic and just wave as being close. :icon_bb:


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## MattScahum (Oct 27, 2010)

I can say that my new role away from the sales department in D* lets me see alot of stuff involving active customers that may or may not be in agreements. The best indication on seeing what a customer can do is when I'm in charge of the mover's agents on my floor. Some customers that have been really great customers, pay their bill on time among other things get alot of great stuff offered to them for dirt cheap, if not free. Some customers who have payment issues, or other account issues may only get minimal discounts or nothing at all. I think the latter is who D* is not as focused on offering retention offers to, as they see them as higher risk. A 10 year customer who has a bunch of high end equipment who has numerous referrals(I'm not sure if those are tracked or not) and excellent bill history would, at least to me, be lower risk and I would probably offer that person as much as I could to help them out if needed to keep them for another 10 years.
As I said its not my department or even close to it, but I see that behavior with alot of places; cell phones being the best example. I don't have a problem with people asking for discounts, because you never know what is available to you. I do have a big issue with people who think they should be given everything just because they feel they deserve it. Those are the folks that I think most companies are better off without anyways.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

This is silly . I am at the end of my two-year contract, and I will ask them if they will match the Dish TV offer for new customers, or at least offer me something similar to what they are offering their new customers. I am all DTV installed and using their old equipment which is not something they are dying to get back.

If they can meet Dish's offer, or something close, I will stay with DTV. If not, no big deal. I have a top credit rating and have paid DTV on autopay, so I have been a money machine for them.


Do you have any idea how much it costs Directv to get a new customer? It would shock you. Probably at least $600 when you talk about installation, new equipment, and discounts. It they can keep me as a paying customer, they are saving that expense.


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## akw4572 (Sep 8, 2005)

mitchflorida said:


> This is silly . I am at the end of my two-year contract, and I will ask them if they will match the Dish TV offer for new customers, or at least offer me something similar to what they are offering their new customers. I am all DTV installed and using their old equipment which is not something they are dying to get back.
> 
> If they can meet Dish's offer, or something close, I will stay with DTV. If not, no big deal. I have a top credit rating and have paid DTV on autopay, so I have been a money machine for them.
> 
> Do you have any idea how much it costs Directv to get a new customer? It would shock you. Probably at least $600 when you talk about installation, new equipment, and discounts. It they can keep me as a paying customer, they are saving that expense.


Agree wholeheartedly. I'm at the end of my contract, and I, as a consumer would be foolish to not pursue the best deal I can get. I'll get the best value I can get. So far, I think sticking with Direct is the best option for me. If I ever decide to go other routes, and Direct doesn't want to match, I'll take my business elsewhere. Now, if I end up with a competitor, and don't like the product as much, that's 100% on me.


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

mitchflorida said:


> Do you have any idea how much it costs Directv to get a new customer? It would shock you. Probably at least $600 when you talk about installation, new equipment, and discounts. It they can keep me as a paying customer, they are saving that expense.


Their SACs costs are probably north of $600, but it doesn't necessarily mean that keeping you is going to save them that money, it may even cost them more in the long run.

Current new customer off gives a $44 discount for year 1 and $20 in year 2.
Retention costs = $768. 2 years later I ask for the same thing or I'll leave, thus costing them another $700.

The cost for keeping you as a customer then becomes tremendously greater that the initial SAC.

I think the disconnect between Directv and their customers occurs because loyal, longtime customers do not have any meaningful financial incentives to stay. The service, equipment and even programming may meet their needs but that might need be enough to retain them if $ and the bottom line is the deciding factor.

Perhaps if Directv offered annual or biennial discounts that escalated based on tenure, pay history, etc. that could be a step in the right direction.

Additionally, subs need to realize that a new customer offer is just that - a new customer offer, and truly you are only a new customer once. And, with very few exceptions (extremely long-time customers being one) everyone was given a new customer offer of some sort.

It's the consumers prerogative to shop around and get the best price for the service and if that means inquiring about discounts as current customer, great.


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## Gloria_Chavez (Aug 11, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Demanding, expecting, or relentless pursuit are forms of entitlement mentality.


That describes Disney's behavior re: ESPN. Every year, it's, we're entitled to a 7% price hike, whether deserved or not. Even if inflation is 0%. ESPN will extract that 7%.

And because so many Americans live vicariously through their sports "heros", so far, it's been able to get that 7%.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Gloria_Chavez said:


> That describes Disney's behavior re: ESPN. Every year, it's, we're entitled to a 7% price hike, whether deserved or not. Even if inflation is 0%. ESPN will extract that 7%.
> 
> And because so many Americans live vicariously through their sports "heros", so far, it's been able to get that 7%.


No, that is not "entitlement". That is having a product which is highly sought after and having a huge strength in negotiation. Pure capitalism, not entitlement.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

cariera said:


> I think the disconnect between Directv and their customers occurs because loyal, longtime customers do not have any meaningful financial incentives to stay. The service, equipment and even programming may meet their needs but that might need be enough to retain them if $ and the bottom line is the deciding factor.


The disconnect with me is that loyal, longtime customers like myself are paying more for frequently inferior service (e.g. no whole-home vs. a $400 upgrade) and inferior equipment (two-generation-old HR-21 receivers vis a vis a $200 upgrade to a newer receiver and no chance at getting the HR-34) than unproven, new customers, who get all of this at no cost to them.


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

Ira Lacher said:


> The disconnect with me is that loyal, longtime customers like myself are paying more for frequently inferior service (e.g. no whole-home vs. a $400 upgrade) and inferior equipment (two-generation-old HR-21 receivers vis a vis a $200 upgrade to a newer receiver and no chance at getting the HR-34) than unproven, new customers, who get all of this at no cost to them.


Everyone is/was a new customer at one point and this was your opportunity to get promotional pricing and newer hardware at a discount. Your loyalty today is helping cover the cost of those incentives back when you first signed up.

If you just signed up at the list price and didn't pursue promotional pricing or new customer discounts, well, that's not Directv's problem. But overall, I'm fairly certain that they factor your overall history with them if you were to call in and inquire about discounts or new equipment/service upgrades.

You don't have to say, "if you don't knock $20 off my bill I'm outta here!" Just call up and say, "hey, I've really enjoyed Directv for these past ## years, but was hoping you might be able to help me out with the bill or offer me a discount on that new Whole Home DVR service." It really is that simple.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

billsharpe said:


> Good for you, but my daughter has been trying to refinance her house mortgage for two years without success.


 Good for me is right. I guess 45+ years of perfect credit is the answer.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

mreposter said:


> You don't have to say, "if you don't knock $20 off my bill I'm outta here!" Just call up and say, "hey, I've really enjoyed Directv for these past ## years, but was hoping you might be able to help me out with the bill or offer me a discount on that new Whole Home DVR service." It really is that simple.


I have never threatened to cancel, and I have from time to time acted in the way you suggest. With no success. Simple, eh?


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

mreposter said:


> Everyone is/was a new customer at one point and this was your opportunity to get promotional pricing and newer hardware at a discount. Your loyalty today is helping cover the cost of those incentives back when you first signed up.
> 
> If you just signed up at the list price and didn't pursue promotional pricing or new customer discounts, well, that's not Directv's problem. But overall, I'm fairly certain that they factor your overall history with them if you were to call in and inquire about discounts or new equipment/service upgrades.
> 
> You don't have to say, "if you don't knock $20 off my bill I'm outta here!" Just call up and say, "hey, I've really enjoyed Directv for these past ## years, but was hoping you might be able to help me out with the bill or offer me a discount on that new Whole Home DVR service." It really is that simple.


there were no new subscribers deals when I bought the two RCA boxes w/18" dish. I paid an installer to install the dish.

You paid your money and you had satellite TV or you didn't and you had cable or OTA.


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

Ira Lacher said:


> I have never threatened to cancel, and I have from time to time acted in the way you suggest. With no success. Simple, eh?


Man, normally all you have to do is sneeze and they'll give you Starz 3 months for free.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

mreposter said:


> Man, normally all you have to do is sneeze and they'll give you Starz 3 months for free.


Guess I'm using the wrong hankie!


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

There is also the possibility that if you have been with them a long time they are sure you aren't going anywhere so why give away money?


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

It will be interesting to see what they offer me when I call and cancel on July 2nd.

I will post then and let you know.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

I asked for nothing, and was offered nothing.

The last thing she mentioned was that if I was not satisfied with DISH, I should call retention and ask for the "welcome back package". What ever that is.


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## PK6301 (May 16, 2012)

ATARI said:


> I asked for nothing, and was offered nothing.
> 
> The last thing she mentioned was that if I was not satisfied with DISH, I should call retention and ask for the "welcome back package". What ever that is.


I am just wondering if Direct is just going to sit back and let the dust settle for a few days..Retentions knows more are going to stay with them than are going to switch to Dish. After losing AMC and the other channels, Alot more will consider the switch to D**

Time will tell


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## celticpride (Sep 6, 2006)

when i left directv 2 years ago they didnt even offer one thing i was shocked and very dissapointed.I had been a customer for 14 years and had the nba league every year plus i was never late on my payments! I am still with verizon fios ,i just signed up for 2 more years and they gave me a $360.00 gift card for renewing.My problem is i miss directv because they carry all the nba league pass games in HD. verizon only has 2 HD games per night. If verizon doesnt carry more HD NBA league pass games in 2 years i will seriously consider going back especially since directv now has TIVO again! Of course that may not matter because i also like the idea of getting a DVR that can record 5 programs at once!


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## eaddict (Aug 18, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Does your utility bill go down after you've been a customer of theirs after X amount of time? Does your car payment go down after X amount of time? Does your mortgage payment go down after X amount of time? Does your rent go down after X amount of time? Do any of them give discounts for being a customer for X amount of time? Why would you expect DirecTV to do that?


 My car payment dropped down due to the type of loan I had (since paid off). My mortgage just dropped as well. My home equity loan payment (required payment) is lower than when I started. My insurance went down AND I get MORE discounts for being a long term customer. Heck, even my U verse (phone and internet) just dropped $10/month!

I would not agree that utility bill is the same as DirecTV since the utility is a monopoly. Maybe if we only allowed DirectTV to raise rates after a public vote THEN it would be close.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

billsharpe said:


> Good for you, but my daughter has been trying to refinance her house mortgage for two years without success.


 I had no problems refinancing with my long time mortgage holder. I'ts going to save me a ton in interest.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

Ira Lacher said:


> The disconnect with me is that loyal, longtime customers like myself are paying more for frequently inferior service (e.g. no whole-home vs. a $400 upgrade) and inferior equipment (two-generation-old HR-21 receivers vis a vis a $200 upgrade to a newer receiver and no chance at getting the HR-34) than unproven, new customers, who get all of this at no cost to them.


Maybe it's time for you to look at dish.

I'm not sure about the unproven. They do check credit history and require a credit card on file.


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

ATARI said:


> I asked for nothing, and was offered nothing.
> 
> The last thing she mentioned was that if I was not satisfied with DISH, I should call retention and ask for the "welcome back package". What ever that is.


How much time do you have to cancel the Dish contract without a penalty? I assume there will be a penalty. It will be interesting to see if D* covers the penalty and what they would offer you.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

n3vino said:


> Maybe it's time for you to look at dish.


I have. Wonderful technology. More HD channels. Very capable local installer. Enticing promotional prices. Competitive everyday pricing.

Was strongly considering them before this business with AMC popped up, like a violent thunderstorm. My problem with DISH is it has an egomaniac CEO who insists that "negotiating" with content providers means pulling their channels off the service, waiting for them to come begging to please, please take them back. Meanwhile, helpless customers are left in the lurch.

Of course you never want say never. But I'm reluctant to change providers until DISH's CEO starts thinking less about his ego and more about his customers, who probably wouldn't mind paying a little more if they could be confident their favorite programs will be there tomorrow.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Ira Lacher said:


> I have. Wonderful technology. More HD channels. Very capable local installer. Enticing promotional prices. Competitive everyday pricing.
> 
> Was strongly considering them before this business with AMC popped up, like a violent thunderstorm. My problem with DISH is it has an egomaniac CEO who insists that "negotiating" with content providers means pulling their channels off the service, waiting for them to come begging to please, please take them back. Meanwhile, helpless customers are left in the lurch.
> 
> Of course you never want say never. But I'm reluctant to change providers until DISH's CEO starts thinking less about his ego and more about his customers, who probably wouldn't mind paying a little more if they could be confident their favorite programs will be there tomorrow.


The only thing I watched on AMC was Walking Dead. Season 1 was good, but DirecTV had it in SD. Then they fire Frank Darabont. Season 2 was in lovely HD, but the show just went nowhere. Bottom line: I won't be missing AMC when I switch to DISH tomorrow.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

ATARI said:


> I asked for nothing, and was offered nothing.
> 
> The last thing she mentioned was that if I was not satisfied with DISH, I should call retention and ask for the "welcome back package". What ever that is.


I cancelled DirecTV about 3-1/2 years ago. When I called to cancel, they didn't give me any great offers to retain me. After I cancelled, they offered me the sun and the moon to get me back. Within days of cancelling, I was receiving 2-3 offers a week to get me to come back. I still get the offers, but the frequency has dwindled to 2-3 times per month.

You won't have to call retention to ask for a welcome back package, they'll contact you.


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## Blankman2k5 (Oct 21, 2010)

Upstream said:


> I cancelled DirecTV about 3-1/2 years ago. When I called to cancel, they didn't give me any great offers to retain me. After I cancelled, they offered me the sun and the moon to get me back. Within days of cancelling, I was receiving 2-3 offers a week to get me to come back. I still get the offers, but the frequency has dwindled to 2-3 times per month.
> 
> You won't have to call retention to ask for a welcome back package, they'll contact you.


That is not for every customer, it is based on your account history. No two accounts are the same in the system so not every customer is qualified for the same offers.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

correct lots of variables...amounts of credit (equipment and programming) ...pay history..length of tenure...programming etc....


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## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Ira Lacher said:


> My problem with DISH is it has an egomaniac CEO who insists that "negotiating" with content providers means pulling their channels off the service, waiting for them to come begging to please, please take them back. Meanwhile, helpless customers are left in the lurch.


Or they could operate like DirecTV just paying whatever programmers ask and sticking it to the subscribers every February. And for a little icing on the cake, how about a nickel-and-dime "regional sports fee" for some unlucky subscribers?


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

ThomasM said:


> Or they could operate like DirecTV just paying whatever programmers ask and sticking it to the subscribers every February. And for a little icing on the cake, how about a nickel-and-dime "regional sports fee" for some unlucky subscribers?


Dish has raised rates on services every year as well. You won't have to worry about those fees on DISH because they don't carry the RSN's. You could also choose a package without RSN's and avoid that fee.


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## zimm7778 (Nov 11, 2007)

"Shades228" said:


> Dish has raised rates on services every year as well. You won't have to worry about those fees on DISH because they don't carry the RSN's. You could also choose a package without RSN's and avoid that fee.


For kicks I went Dish's website and decided to put in what I felt was equivalent to what I had with Directv. 3 rooms, the hopper, and free HD for life was more expensive than what I have on Directv and I have the channels I actually want.


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## fjcastro (Jan 29, 2007)

I have been a DirecTV customer for about 12 years. I have been experiencing super slow performance by my HR22 for quite some time and I was told by Customer Service that it was a "known problem". Spoke to the Retention department about it and the only thing that they offered me was $40 off my bill for six months ($240) plus another $10 off per month for an additional 6 months ($60). The next day my receiver would not connect to my router and I called the Retention department again. I said the only way to keep me as a customer would be to upgrade me to the HR34. The agent said that there were no "offers" for any discounts on the HR34 and I just kept insisting that I shouldn't have to pay $175 a month for inferior equipment and service. It took about 45 minutes but I ended up getting the following: an HR34 and CCK for free. I had to pay a $49 installation fee (no problem) and I now have a 2 year agreement. This is not an issue with me because I won't be switching to DISH anytime soon. Especially after they dropped AMC. (Big Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Walking Dead fan). Also, it helped to mention that I just received a mailer from DISH offering a free Hopper.


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## zimm7778 (Nov 11, 2007)

"fjcastro" said:


> I have been a DirecTV customer for about 12 years. I have been experiencing super slow performance by my HR22 for quite some time and I was told by Customer Service that it was a "known problem". Spoke to the Retention department about it and the only thing that they offered me was $40 off my bill for six months ($240) plus another $10 off per month for an additional 6 months ($60). The next day my receiver would not connect to my router and I called the Retention department again. I said the only way to keep me as a customer would be to upgrade me to the HR34. The agent said that there were no "offers" for any discounts on the HR34 and I just kept insisting that I shouldn't have to pay $175 a month for inferior equipment and service. It took about 45 minutes but I ended up getting the following: an HR34 and CCK for free. I had to pay a $49 installation fee (no problem) and I now have a 2 year agreement. This is not an issue with me because I won't be switching to DISH anytime soon. Especially after they dropped AMC. (Big Breaking Bad, Mad Men and Walking Dead fan). Also, it helped to mention that I just received a mailer from DISH offering a free Hopper.


What is CCK?


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## boukengreen (Sep 22, 2009)

zimm7778 said:


> What is CCK?


cinema connection kit


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## RACJ2 (Aug 2, 2008)

boukengreen said:


> cinema connection kit


Which you don't actually need with the HR34, since it has DECA built in.


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## zimm7778 (Nov 11, 2007)

"boukengreen" said:


> cinema connection kit


Oh ok. I had all kinds of problems with mine. The guy they sent out to troubleshoot shoot it even tried a new one and it still wouldn't worked. Then he hooked up a DECA and said this is what they actually want us to use for your equipment and it works like a charm. But I must ask, why?! If that's what they want us to use why don't they make the info stating this available instead of playing this constant hide and seek game with it. Even though it worked with no problem until a couple of months ago I would have never bought the CCK if I had known this DECA thing is what I needed for my stuff to begin with.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

zimm7778 said:


> Oh ok. I had all kinds of problems with mine. The guy they sent out to troubleshoot shoot it even tried a new one and it still wouldn't worked. Then he hooked up a DECA and said this is what they actually want us to use for your equipment and it works like a charm. But I must ask, why?! If that's what they want us to use why don't they make the info stating this available instead of playing this constant hide and seek game with it. Even though it worked with no problem until a couple of months ago I would have never bought the CCK if I had known this DECA thing is what I needed for my stuff to begin with.


A CCK is a DECA. Basically it's any DECA connected to your router. Those of us that had one earlier on have a DECA dongle (with P/S attached.)

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=DECA1MR01&d=DIRECTV-Ethernet-Coax-Adapter-DECA--(DECA1MR01)

The next version was a broadband DECA (before the name was changed to CCK.)

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=DECABB1R0&d=DIRECTV-Cinema-Connection-Kit-(DECABB1R0)

And finally the "all-in-one" CCK

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...-W-Wireless-DECA-Cinema-Connection-Kit-(CCK-W)

Not sure what version you initially used, but you could have had a defective unit. I've used them all, and all work well. The tech was also likely feeding you a line. If they asked him to use a particular DECA, then why did he try to hook up another version of what you currently had? I had a tech in the house recently who started spewing "garbage." I sent him on his way pretty quickly...


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

My two year contract is over this year. I tried to get them to match the Dish Network but they wouldn't. I think the two companies are comparable . .I've had both. I will save about $350 by switching when you consider the intro offer, the rebate and the free premium channels. Dish is about $6 cheaper than DTV on their AT250 plan.


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## abooch (Oct 25, 2008)

Quick question. I had to upgrade my package online because I had the old HD DVR choice package. Does this automatically put me in a new two-year agreement with D*?


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## edoug (Jul 10, 2012)

I wouldn't think so.


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## rob_gendeau (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm thinking about dumping Directv for Comcast and Tivo.

Here's my thinking: get a few more HD channels I want that aren't available on DTV and probably won't be (BBC America, eg). Can get a Tivo Premiere, which basically is a better UI than the HR34, plus you can take recordings off it). About the same price, perhaps a bit more on Comcast (unfortunately they save their best deals for packages with other services I don't need). Less wiring hassle for my house. No rain outages.

Comcast has a better on-demand in my area, but it's not much of a factor. DTV has some more sports that I generally don't watch. I'd say current DTV customer service is better than I recall with comcast, and I doubt it's changed. But once up and running I rarely need either's tech support.

The Viacomm thing is a factor as well.

Is there anything DTV is likely to do to make me want to change my mind?


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

abooch said:


> Quick question. I had to upgrade my package online because I had the old HD DVR choice package. Does this automatically put me in a new two-year agreement with D*?


Not unless they come out to your house to upgrade your receivers. You will have to sign the contract before the installer will leave.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

rob_gendeau said:


> I'm thinking about dumping Directv for Comcast and Tivo.
> 
> Here's my thinking: get a few more HD channels I want that aren't available on DTV and probably won't be (BBC America, eg). Can get a Tivo Premiere, which basically is a better UI than the HR34, plus you can take recordings off it). About the same price, perhaps a bit more on Comcast (unfortunately they save their best deals for packages with other services I don't need). Less wiring hassle for my house. No rain outages.
> 
> ...


If you are a good customer , they will probably offer you about $20 /month discount for you to stay. There is no contract extension involved.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

mitchflorida said:


> If you are a good customer , they will probably offer you about $20 /month discount for you to stay. There is no contract extension involved.


Many discounts now come with agreements as well.


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## byroan (May 31, 2012)

Shades228 said:


> Many discounts now come with agreements as well.


Not the monthly discounts.

Getting ST for free does have an agreement.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

byroan said:


> Not the monthly discounts.
> 
> Getting ST for free does have an agreement.


Yes monthly programming discounts as well may have an agreement.


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## mitchflorida (May 18, 2009)

sure, if they give me $40 a month discount I would agree to a year. $20 is not worth talking about. Meanwhile they keep begging me to let them install a $200 hd dvr that I don't need, for free. With the install charge that would cost them about $275.


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## cariera (Oct 27, 2006)

Let me ask you, what is it going to take for you to change your mind?



rob_gendeau said:


> I'm thinking about dumping Directv for Comcast and Tivo.
> 
> Here's my thinking: get a few more HD channels I want that aren't available on DTV and probably won't be (BBC America, e.g.).


You already know the answer to this dilemma - Directv probably won't be adding BBCA or the others you want anytime soon, so what can the CSR offer you - movie channels? Would that be a fair exchange for you?



> Can get a Tivo Premiere, which basically is a better UI than the HR34, plus you can take recordings off it).


You can get a TIVO unit from Directv, if you really want a TIVO unit. Probably $199, but would it make a difference to you if it cost less? If so how much?

The UI is different on the TIVO unit than the HR34, but in your opinion is it better?

You lose features like WHDVR, Directv Cinema, 3D with the Directv TIVO, does that matter?

You can take recordings off the DVR...Nomad!



> About the same price, perhaps a bit more on Comcast


So monthly cost is not a factor, so discounts probably wouldn't make you change your mind, unless they possibly offset the cost of equipment.



> No rain outages.


Every provider has a a vulnerability to outages of some sort, Comcast is no different. But perhaps a service call would solve or minimize your rain outages. Would that entice you to stay?



> Comcast has a better on-demand in my area, but it's not much of a factor.


A non factor then, and nothing a CSR can do to improve the Directv on demand



> DTV has some more sports that I generally don't watch.


Again a non-factor



> I'd say current DTV customer service is better than I recall with comcast, and I doubt it's changed. But once up and running I rarely need either's tech support.


Once more, a non-factor



> The Viacomm thing is a factor as well.


All providers are open to this kind of action and it affects Cablecos as well. While this is inconvenient at this time, there will be some resolution.



> Is there anything DTV is likely to do to make me want to change my mind?


They can and will probably offer discounts, free equipment and or free programming but again, what would it take them doing to change your mind? Do you want your mind changed?


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

bidger said:


> I, on other hand, sub to Choice Select and HD Extra, so I won't expect Retention to bend over backwards if/when I call to cancel.


So I called today to cancel and the retention rep asked why I was cancelling and I said the lack of a quality high speed internet option to bundle with my TV service and escalating charges he offered to see what he could do about that. I said fine, but as is so often the case with calls to DirecTV, the line went dead. Start over. Different rep, but I gave the same summary, to which he replies, "Yeah, we hear that a lot", in regard to a lack of HSI to bundle. He pretty much cancelled service and didn't even make a pitch.

I have no problems with that and I didn't want an equipment upgrade or anything else that triggers a new commitment. Honestly, TV is not the priority it once was, even with HD. I just can't see paying over $50/mo. for TV. With TWC I can downscale to Basic if it gets out of hand. What I don't want is "Please come back!" offers after I've sent the equipment back to DirecTV.


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

bidger said:


> What I don't want is "Please come back!" offers after I've sent the equipment back to DirecTV.


You will start getting mailings and emails within 4 weeks of cancelling.


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

ATARI said:


> You will start getting mailings and emails within 4 weeks of cancelling.


It started sooner than that after I switched to FiOS. That didn't bother me at all, as I am happy with FiOS.


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## bidger (Nov 19, 2005)

bidger said:


> What I don't want is "Please come back!" offers after I've sent the equipment back to DirecTV.


Well, I give them credit because the "Let's Start Over" e-mail came before the reclamation box. They only want the HR21 so I'll probably see what the going price is on the HR20. I did call the number on the e-mail to see what the pitch was. Asked about the distants and found they were off the table and I'd have to reapply. Since locals are available, I know how that would go. When I asked about the Lifetime DVR on my account and found out that too was off the table and I'd have to pay $8/mo. for DVR, I said thanks and goodbye.

It's possible I could regret this, but in the end it's just TV and I find DirecTV is more like cable now than when I first signed on in 1998. But, unlike cable a good Internet option isn't bundled.


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## wahooq (Oct 19, 2011)

bidger said:


> Well, I give them credit because the "Let's Start Over" e-mail came before the reclamation box. They only want the HR21 so I'll probably see what the going price is on the HR20. I did call the number on the e-mail to see what the pitch was. Asked about the distants and found they were off the table and I'd have to reapply. Since locals are available, I know how that would go. When I asked about the Lifetime DVR on my account and found out that too was off the table and I'd have to pay $8/mo. for DVR, I said thanks and goodbye.
> 
> It's possible I could regret this, but in the end it's just TV and I find DirecTV is more like cable now than when I first signed on in 1998. But, unlike cable a good Internet option isn't bundled.


hr20's are non recoverable...doesnt mean they are considered owned...just FYI


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