# Vssll???



## SParker

Anyone do business with VSSLL? I am thinking of getting a 921 from them. It's a JVC branded one. Will DISH warranty cover the JVC branded ones?


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## MikeSoltis

Apparently these guys will not take credit cards, I've emailed about availability, but the no CC deal would kill it for me. Don't want to give up the little bit of consumer protection you get with a CC purchase...

This is being discussed at satelliteguys.us
here


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## SParker

Ouch yeah that scratches that for me as well. I don't have $999 cash and would also need to use a CC.


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## SParker

Looks like Dish Depot will get my business again. It's not that I wouldn't of bought from them anyways but this place sounded like they had more stock.


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## TVBob

SParker said:


> Anyone do business with VSSLL? I am thinking of getting a 921 from them. It's a JVC branded one. Will DISH warranty cover the JVC branded ones?


Call me brave or stupid, but I ordered a DVR-921 from VSSLL with a personal check, after DISH confirmed that they are indeed an authorized dealer "in good standing" (at least at that time). The check cleared in early October. I am still waiting for a confirmed ship date.

I have a feeling Tracy Shepard of VSSLL is trying his best to get some units. From posts around the net, I also have a feeling that Echostar is making it really hard for _any_ dealer to get more than a tiny handful of units right now. I wish I knew why DISH seems to be releasing these units in such limited quantities.

I can't answer your question regarding warranty coverage, unfortunately. In the mean time, I'm praying VSSLL comes through. Wish me luck.


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## jcord51

You and me both TV Bob, I did the same as you. I spoke to Tracy, in Atlanta yesterday, he said if there are any units to be gotten that he's there to get them. "They know I'm here!".


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## HookedOnTV

I didn't think that a merchant who accepts credit cards can deny you the ability to use one. Something in the merchant agreement.


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## Kagato

Yeah, merchant agreements are pretty strict, my *guess* is you can, as many brick and mortar stores routinely limit CC on Loto tickets and phone cards. I don't know if he wants to only take cash because he thinks the 921 is buggy enough to generate charge backs, or it's hot enough of a product he feels he can pocket the credit card fees and still sell out, but it's certainly not because he's selling below MSRP.


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## MattG

Just got a call from Dave at VSSLL and they just received their 921s today from JVC in Atlanta and I'll receive mine on Friday. He also said they're getting more units in the next few days. I was a little uneasy myself about sending a $1k money order to them but they seem to be an established and reputable company and certainly are not a fly by night operation.


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## DonLandis

Kagato-
My merchant agreement doen't have any restrictions like that for Visa M/C but there is a similar one for AMEX. It states I cannot accept other cards in exclusion of AMEX. I'm sure you have seen merchants will accept all CC's but then state they do not accept AMEX on certain items. This would be a violation according to my AMEX contract. Bottom line, I have a choice to accept or reject CC's as I please and I may charge extra, ie a surcharge for CC use.

Just remember- If you use a check card with "VISA" on it you do not have the same charge back rights as you would with a real VISA credit card.


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## Eagles

MattG said:


> Just got a call from Dave at VSSLL and they just received their 921s today from JVC in Atlanta and I'll receive mine on Friday. He also said they're getting more units in the next few days. I was a little uneasy myself about sending a $1k money order to them but they seem to be an established and reputable company and certainly are not a fly by night operation.


Matt,
Did you get yours shipped overnite? I also got mine from Tracy (VSSLL) and he
told me it would be sent overnite. I fully expect it today(Wed). Why were you told Friday, is that what you chose as far as a shipping option?


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## MattG

Mine is shipping overnight but it isn't shipping out until today. I believe he shipped out the older preorders yesterday and the newer preorders that were sent to Dave in Florida are going out today.

He just posted a picture of his truck full of 921s:

http://www.vssll.com/pvr921.html


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## Eagles

MattG said:


> Mine is shipping overnight but it isn't shipping out until today. I believe he shipped out the older preorders yesterday and the newer preorders that were sent to Dave in Florida are going out today.
> 
> He just posted a picture of his truck full of 921s:
> 
> http://www.vssll.com/pvr921.html


Matt,
Thanks for the info. I was the first guy in line for this shipment. Tracys had my
check since April. He actually cashed it in August in anticipation for one of those false alarm release dates. I was ready to bail out a couple of times, but
now I'm glad I didn't. It looks like I will actually get it today. I'm supposed to call Tracy later this morning for tracking info. I'll post again when I receive the
unit, and thereby vouch for VSSLL. I did see the loaded truck. It was cool.
:us:


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## Throwbot

I saw the photo of his truck full, I count 9 boxes. Sorry I really hope you get yours but , it should be easier than this. This is crazy!


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## jcord51

Eagles, I also sent my personnal check early and have to say that Tracy has done everything possible to to get these units to us. He has even given out the room # of where he was camping out (in case you wanted to reach him) to assure that he was the first on line. What a Guy!!!


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## DonLandis

Anyone notice his tag number?


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## Kagato

DonLandis said:


> Kagato-
> My merchant agreement doen't have any restrictions like that for Visa M/C but there is a similar one for AMEX. It states I cannot accept other cards in exclusion of AMEX. I'm sure you have seen merchants will accept all CC's but then state they do not accept AMEX on certain items. This would be a violation according to my AMEX contract. Bottom line, I have a choice to accept or reject CC's as I please and I may charge extra, ie a surcharge for CC use.
> 
> Just remember- If you use a check card with "VISA" on it you do not have the same charge back rights as you would with a real VISA credit card.


Like I said in the previous post, my guess is the merchant agreement allows you to not accept cards on items. I'm calling you on being able to tack a surcharge on the CC transaction. In all my years of doing e-commerce programming I've never come across a merchant bank that didn't forbid surcharges for credit cards.

Now, you are able to offer a "cash discount" off you're selling price. One of the major gas station chains sued VISA a while back to get that right. Yeah, it's symantics, but it's a fine contractual line you walk when presenting your price list. Same thing goes for things like pay-pal. If an ebay admin sees your action has a pay-pay surcharge they'll cancel it.

I think the whole surcharge thing is a classic small business mistake. Build your business up, concentrate on customer service. When you've grown your business to have higher volumes you can shop around for a new merchant bank and talk them down to better rates.


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## JohnMI

DonLandis said:


> Bottom line, I have a choice to accept or reject CC's as I please and I may charge extra, ie a surcharge for CC use.


Well, VISA International would disagree with you. Specifically, "Visa merchants [...] are not permitted to charge you a fee when you want to use your Visa card."

The VISA web site goes on to tell you how to contact your card issuer to file a complaint against any merchant that tries to "charge extra, ie a surcharge for CC use." You would be in violation of VISA's agreement doing what you just said you can do as you please -- you are incorrect.

I'm relatively certain that MasterCard has a similar clause.

- John...


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## Rodney

Just talked with Tracy at VSSLL. He said that at the moment he has 12 of the JVC DVR921 receivers left and they are being allocated on a first payment received basis.


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## Eagles

Eagles said:


> Matt,
> Thanks for the info. I was the first guy in line for this shipment. Tracys had my
> check since April. He actually cashed it in August in anticipation for one of those false alarm release dates. I was ready to bail out a couple of times, but
> now I'm glad I didn't. It looks like I will actually get it today. I'm supposed to call Tracy later this morning for tracking info. I'll post again when I receive the
> unit, and thereby vouch for VSSLL. I did see the loaded truck. It was cool.
> :us:


Received my 921 about 11 O'clock this morning. Downloading software as I
type this reply. I can't believe I actually got one of these things in 2003.


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## Rodney

I also ordered from Tracy this morning. I already have a tracking number and the FEDEX web site says the delivery is scheduled for Friday. Like many of you I was very hesitant to transfer $1000.00 to an unknown entity.


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## TVBob

I am receiving very poor customer service from VSSLL. They cashed my $1,300 deposit back in October, and I still don't have my DVR-921. Right now I can't get Tracy Shepard return calls, answer my e-mails, or even answer his phone.

Despite several requests, and several promises from Tracy to get back to me, I still don't have a UPS tracking no.

I finally got through to Tracy by phone late last night. After a long pause, he claimed my unit was shipped from a Mail Boxes Etc. in Atlanta last Tuesday, but all he could quote was the price paid for shipping, no tracking no.

He promised to get me a tracking no. via e-mail or telephone today, but I've heard nothing, and he's still not answering his phone or returning calls.

God, I hope I haven't been had by this VSSLL outfit. All the signs point to disaster right now. If my unit does show up on Monday, I'll post an update. At this point, I'm really frustrated, and I would not recommend dealing with them.


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## TVBob

TVBob said:


> I am receiving very poor customer service from VSSLL.


Tracy finally returned my call a few minutes ago, and, after asking my zip code (?), he called back again and _finally_ gave me a UPS tracking no.

It looked it up and UPS says it was shipped from Doraville, GA (near Northern Atlanta) via UPS Ground (!) on Tuesday, Dec. 30th, and it isn't scheduled to arrive until Jan. 8th! :nono2:

It's also going to the wrong address. On Dec. 3rd, I asked Tracy to ship it to the local Postal Annex Plus store, instead of to my home address, so someone could sign for it. He didn't reply to my first e-mail, so I resent it and he replied "I received and viewed the email. Please excuse me, the 811 came out Monday and things have been hectic. I have noted the address change." Apparently not.

Earlier in the week he said all pre-paid units were shipped "overnight." Then last night he told me it "Might have been shipped by UPS Blue."

So in sum, VSSLL:

Won't take credit cards
Usually doesn't respond to e-mails
Often doesn't return calls
Sometimes doesn't answer the phone
Sent my unit to the wrong address despite written acknowledgment
Sent my unit via UPS Ground instead of overnight or 2-day
Still owes me a refund


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## TVBob

TVBob said:


> Tracy finally returned my call a few minutes ago, and, after asking my zip code (?), he called back again and _finally_ gave me a UPS tracking no.


Got another call from Tracy, again apologizing for shipping it ground. Tracy says overpayment refunds should go out by check "next week." Stay tuned.

With the tracking no., I called UPS and they told me it originated from a Mail Boxes Etc. in Duluth, GA. Called the Mail Boxes Etc. and they said yes, they worked with Tracy last Tuesday. "Dave" said Tracy sent some units overnight, some 2-day, and some went ground.

I'll post when I get the unit (probably not until Jan. 8th), and I'll post again when I get my overpayment refunded.

So, it looks like VSSLL really did ship me a DVR-921. I just believe this could have been handled so much better. It should have gone 2-day air, minimum, and Tracy should have e-mailed me a tracking no. the day it shipped.


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## jcord51

I too got a call from Tracy advising me of my tracking number and should have delivery by Jan 6. Listen, I too was disappointed that I did not get it sooner, but at least Tracy has been the only one to get the units AT ALL in limited quantities!!


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## TVBob

I did finally get delivery of a DVR-921 from VSSLL on Jan. 8th. The DVR-921 arrived in good condition.

But I am still waiting for my overpayment refund from Tracy.

Did anyone else get a refund yet? VSSLL owes a refund to anyone who deposited $1,300 with them months ago, when we all thought the DVR-921 was going to require bundling with SuperDish.


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## Guest

I wouldn't hold my breath. I e-mailed and phoned them dozens of times recently for my order status with no response.


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## JohnMI

We'll have to see if Charlie's recent thoughts on it are correct. On the Charlie Chat tonight, he seemed to be saying that if you called a retailer and got on a waiting list for the 921 now, you should have it by the end of the month... heh.

- John...


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## TVBob

TVBob said:


> But I am still waiting for my overpayment refund from Tracy.


A hand-written, hand-addressed refund check from VSSLL, dated 1/10/03 :nono2:, finally arrived today. If my bank accepts it, I'll finally breathe a sigh of relief.

In sum, it appears VSSLL really does deliver the DVR-921, but boy, this has been the most exasperating internet transaction I have ever attempted, from start to finish.

To be a better on-line merchant, VSSLL needs to do the following, none of which they do today:

Have a secure online order form that accepts payment by Credit Card or PayPal
Charge nothing more than a 10% deposit for pre-orders and out-of-stock merchandise
Confirm the order by automated e-mail, with an estimated ship date 
When charging $70 for shipping, units should ship via UPS 2-Day Air, not UPS Ground
Units should optionally ship to a specified ship-to address different than the billing address
Provide a UPS tracking no. on the day of shipment
Have more than one person taking orders, answering email, answering the phone, picking up units, and shipping them
Refund overpayments promptly via PayPal or Credit Card adjustment
I hope others experience far less stress when they order from VSSLL. Good luck.


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## jcord51

You know TV Bob, I can understand your frustration, but give Tracy some credit for at least getting the 921 to you and for camping out in order to get it. I also waited a year for the unit to arrive, but I also kept myself informed of how difficult it was going to be to get the unit. I'm just very glad we are among the 200 or so nationwide that have the unit to play with.


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## Eagles

TVBob said:


> A hand-written, hand-addressed refund check from VSSLL, dated 1/10/03 :nono2:, finally arrived today. If my bank accepts it, I'll finally breathe a sigh of relief.
> 
> In sum, it appears VSSLL really does deliver the DVR-921, but boy, this has been the most exasperating internet transaction I have ever attempted, from start to finish.
> 
> To be a better on-line merchant, VSSLL needs to do the following, none of which they do today:
> 
> Have a secure online order form that accepts payment by Credit Card or PayPal
> Charge nothing more than a 10% deposit for pre-orders and out-of-stock merchandise
> Confirm the order by automated e-mail, with an estimated ship date
> When charging $70 for shipping, units should ship via UPS 2-Day Air, not UPS Ground
> Units should optionally ship to a specified ship-to address different than the billing address
> Provide a UPS tracking no. on the day of shipment
> Have more than one person taking orders, answering email, answering the phone, picking up units, and shipping them
> Refund overpayments promptly via PayPal or Credit Card adjustment
> I hope others experience far less stress when they order from VSSLL. Good luck.


TVBob- Still waiting for my refund. Tracy cashed my $1300 check back in August. How much was your shipping cost? Did it jive with what Tracy charged. Also, is there tax for internet purchases? Let me know. The 921 I
received has some minor problems that I don't think are related to the software. The exchange via VSSLL should be intresting. !pride


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## NickatNight

I'd like to know how many people have advanced orders for the 921 with Vssll and when they are being told to expect delivery. If you know of a faster source for the 921 please post here, thanks.


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## ibglowin

NickatNight said:


> If you know of a faster source for the 921 please post here, thanks.


ebay

but you will pay from $1300 - $1600 !!!!!

:lol:


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## Guest

I'm in the "Top 5" for the next shipment from VSSLL which at last report, Tracy expected them on Monday the 19th. He also said that he is expecting a "big" shipment of 921's the last week of Jan. (I guess right now JVC is delaying their release of 921's for some unknown reason, according to Tracy)


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## P Smith

"unknown reason" ? - Bugs !


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## Throwbot

NickatNight said:


> I'd like to know how many people have advanced orders for the 921 with Vssll and when they are being told to expect delivery. If you know of a faster source for the 921 please post here, thanks.


I've started building my own from bits and pieces in my garage.
Slowly but surely losing it.
Darn it Mr. E............... Release the hounds! :lol:


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## NickatNight

Hi guys -
Thank's for all your input on the 921 - I just checked the vssll website and found this update.

"A funny thing happened on the way to Atlanta...!" 
Which lead to http://www.vssll.com/921issues.html
"My DISH Network Sales Rep. Called me Friday Morning. He informed me they had my units in Atlanta and told me to come get them! I currently have 40 DVR-921's on backorder with DISH Network.
About two hours later, as I crossed the Georgia State Line, he called again to inform me that DISH Network Corporate Headquarters had recalled/"Pulled!" the units.
This is the shipment I was expecting from DISH on Monday.
I have no additional information!"

89 UNITS SHIPPED/DELIVERED/INSTALLED
212 units on backorder! 
38 customers waiting!


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## tahoerob

True, they could easily use Paypal & only accept verified members.
Also, almost every CC compnay issues CC checks!!
You will get a service fee charged but at least it meets the "check" requirement & still gives you the CC protection.


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## MM-etech

I've got mine from VSSLL (Tracy) in Atlanta on 11/30/03. Paid $1000.00 in cash. Brand new unit and other than SW bugs, no other problems. Good service.


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## Guest

FINALLY!.....Just confirmed my 921 is on it's way from VSSLL.com! Just in time for the SuperBowl!


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## MattG

I received mine from VSSLL the first week of January. Good service despite shipping it to my billing address and not the address I specified and he had 921s when no one else did. Looking at their website it looks like dish is slowly releasing 921s again and VSSLL is starting to ship them again.


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## MattG

ibglowin said:


> ebay
> 
> but you will pay from $1300 - $1600 !!!!!
> 
> :lol:


Hmm, let me think. Sell my new 921 for $1500 on ebay and sell my old 6000 for $500 on ebay for the piratez to hack, wait until 921s are readily available and essentially get a 921 for free... Nah, I like my bug-riddled 921 too much.


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## NickatNight

http://www.vssll.com/921availability.html


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## Dominus

jcord51 said:


> You know TV Bob, I can understand your frustration, but give Tracy some credit for at least getting the 921 to you and for camping out in order to get it. I also waited a year for the unit to arrive, but I also kept myself informed of how difficult it was going to be to get the unit. I'm just very glad we are among the 200 or so nationwide that have the unit to play with.


One other question I have is if and when I receive my 921, who hooks it up? Do I call one of the subs listed on DISH's website?

I already have two dishes on the roof (500) but the 921 needs two inputs which I don't have.

Thanks


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## SpenceJT

Dominus,

I'd bet that most of us have installed our own equipment. So far, I've done all of the installation work on my Dish system, installing both a Dish 500 and Dish 300 along with my two Dish 6000 receivers. Last weekend I ran a second cable for my much anticipated 921 on my own.

The only thing that I have been unable to get my hands on for a "self installation" is a SuperDish (still trying to get one for my locals).

If you care to hand over your 921 to one of us "do-it-yourselfers", I'd be happy to buy it from you! 

In short, you will have to either contract someone to run a second cable, or wait until Dish releases the Dish Pro+ 44 switch, which will be able to "stack" two signals onto a single cable (to be split out with a proprietary diplexer) on the receiver end. I was originally going to go this route but I'm getting impatient. I guess running an extra cable kept my hands busy and my mind off of waiting for a 921 to arrive!

Good luck!
Spence


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## Dave

SpenceJT said:


> Dominus,
> 
> I'd bet that most of us have installed our own equipment. So far, I've done all of the installation work on my Dish system, installing both a Dish 500 and Dish 300 along with my two Dish 6000 receivers. Last weekend I ran a second cable for my much anticipated 921 on my own.
> 
> The only thing that I have been unable to get my hands on for a "self installation" is a SuperDish (still trying to get one for my locals).
> 
> If you care to hand over your 921 to one of us "do-it-yourselfers", I'd be happy to buy it from you!
> 
> In short, you will have to either contract someone to run a second cable, or wait until Dish releases the Dish Pro+ 44 switch, which will be able to "stack" two signals onto a single cable (to be split out with a proprietary diplexer) on the receiver end. I was originally going to go this route but I'm getting impatient. I guess running an extra cable kept my hands busy and my mind off of waiting for a 921 to arrive!
> 
> Good luck!
> Spence


Delivery charges are only $ 19.05 Fed-Ex from the zip code they are using to just about anywhere in the country. That's guaranteed 3 business day delivery. Wonder where the extra $ 50 in delivery charges is going. They make alot of money off of people off of those $ 70 delivery fees.


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## robert bourman

Can any one tell me any info on Duluth MN locals launch dates. Thanks


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## P Smith

robert bourman said:


> Can any one tell me any info on Duluth MN locals launch dates. Thanks


It discussed at Dishnetwork General Forum.


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## Throwbot

NickatNight said:


> http://www.vssll.com/921availability.html


http://www.vssll.com/pvr921.html
That's Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad


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## David_Levin

> Shipping, this week, is looking "BAD!"


I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean?

They're not getting any more (they sold the 64 they had)?
The East Coast storms are causing problems (but they're in Fla)?


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## FaxMan

David_Levin said:


> I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean?
> 
> They're not getting any more (they sold the 64 they had)?
> The East Coast storms are causing problems (but they're in Fla)?


I don't believe they have shipped any of the 100 they were supposed to have.

They have an address in Florida, but the distributor is in Atlanta and the proprietor (Tracy) is in N. Carolina. Apparently he is/was 'iced' in and is/was without power.


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## psb1013

Thank God I got mine just before this happened!



FaxMan said:


> I don't believe they have shipped any of the 100 they were supposed to have.
> 
> They have an address in Florida, but the distributor is in Atlanta and the proprietor (Tracy) is in N. Carolina. Apparently he is/was 'iced' in and is/was without power.


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## TVBob

Dave said:


> Delivery charges are only $ 19.05 Fed-Ex from the zip code they are using to just about anywhere in the country. That's guaranteed 3 business day delivery. Wonder where the extra $ 50 in delivery charges is going. They make alot of money off of people off of those $ 70 delivery fees.


I was charged $70 for UPS Ground shipping from the Atlanta area to California.

Once I finally got a UPS tracking no. from Tracy (it took three requests), I was able to track down the Mail Boxes Etc. store he used to ship the box. The person at the Mail Boxes Etc. confirmed that $70 is "What the computer says" they need to charge for an "oversize box" such as the one used to ship the 921. So, I can't blame Tracy for the high shipping costs.

Now, if he just shipped it from a "UPS Store," it would have cost somewhat less (~$50?). Mail Boxes Etc. charges a premium.


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## P Smith

I wouldn't stay on retailer's side - they're already have 20% profit on the DVR921 model - $160 on top $839 retailer price. They could send you for free with such high margin [as Vanss doing, btw].


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## JohnMI

Is that true? And, if so, does it apply to retailers that you didn't buy your original setup with?

I've called at least 7 local retailers here -- asking about the HDTV-in-a-box and/or 921 items. 3-4 of them told me that they just don't have any information about them yet. The others told me that they only sell hardware to their existing customers because otherwise they don't make ANY profit on them. They basically said that Dish makes it so that the can only make money off of existing subscribers if they are THEIR existing subscribers.

So, having purchased my equipment from an online dealer that isn't helping me much in my HDTV or 921 search (plus, he'd have to pay to SHIP me the HDTV!), I'm out of luck! No retailers will sell it to me -- and blame Dish for that -- and I'd have to pay crazy shipping from my original retailer.

So -- can anyone confirm/deny how that works exactly? Am I being told correctly by my local retailers that they can't make any money off of me as an existing subscriber if I wanted to buy either a 921 or HDTV package from them?

- John...


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## P Smith

Defenitly, they're BS you.  They could easily use friends and resell the DVRs thru eBay for $$$$ profit.


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## JohnMI

Then why does Dish seem to sometime state that you can only buy something directly through Dish (if available) or through the dealer that did your original install?

I find it hard to believe that all of these dealers are unwilling to sell me something that they can make a profit on. And I know it isn't just a situation of them thinking that they'll get more money on EBay if they get ahold of a 921 -- I know some of these employees well enough to know that that isn't the case. They seem to honestly believe that they would make next to nothing trying to sell me a 921. And some even said that they couldn't -- again, because they weren't my original dealer...

- John...


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## P Smith

Ask any dealer here - is that numbers true ? BTW, it was posted here before myself ...


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## Richard King

John... If you would like I would be pleased to put you on my short list for a 921. If interested send me a PM including your phone number. I've provided a couple for other posters here and would have no problem providing one for you, although can't guarantee any shipping date. A 921 should be available from any dealer if they have ordered any. The combo with the television is pretty tough to do simply because of the shipping costs though.


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## JohnMI

Richard King said:


> John... If you would like I would be pleased to put you on my short list for a 921. If interested send me a PM including your phone number. I've provided a couple for other posters here and would have no problem providing one for you, although can't guarantee any shipping date. A 921 should be available from any dealer if they have ordered any. The combo with the television is pretty tough to do simply because of the shipping costs though.


Well, do you know if the combo with the 921 is officially available for existings yet? That is what I've been waiting for. At some point, I should be able to get the HDTV-in-a-box w/ the 921 for $1599. Of course, the shipping is a problem -- which is why I was hoping to go local -- but they keep giving me the garbage about how they can't make any money off me (even if I just wanted a 921 without the HDTV).

So, getting a 921 by itself for $999 is my secondary plan if things fall apart. So, I appreciate your offer, but I need to hold out for a bit to see if I can arrange the HDTV w/ 921 for $1599 -- which should be possible. Whether or not I can get it locally is another issue...

If you can get the HDTV w/ 921 for existings, please let me know -- so that I at least know it is available now and can argue more with the locals. If that doesn't work out, and you could somehow get it shipped to me for anything reasonable (say, under $150), then I'd probably even be willing to do that. But, what bugs me is -- I shouldn't HAVE to. I should be able to go into any Radio Shack or Sears or other independent dealer and just get one. 

I hate putting in my zip at Dish looking for retailers because I always get that message that everything is "also available from all Radio Shack and Sears stores" -- and my three nearest Radio Shacks and two nearest Sears all go "Um, we don't sell to existing customers" when I call... Grrr...

- John...


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## Richard King

I just spoke to my Dish rep who said the combo is not available with the 921 at this time because of the lack of 921's in stock. I don't know if it would do any better time wise to order a 921 combo or a 921 alone. I suspect that they are filling the easy fills (921 alone) before filling the combo packages. As for profit on the 921's, while not huge, there is enough there to make the sale worth the effort to any dealer, so I don't know why you would be getting the answers you are from your sources. I have received all of two units so far, and am waiting for my third to fill my back orders. Being a VERY small dealer, I have been selling them mostly as favors to people here.


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## FaxMan

Richard King said:


> John... If you would like I would be pleased to put you on my short list for a 921. If interested send me a PM including your phone number. I've provided a couple for other posters here and would have no problem providing one for you, although can't guarantee any shipping date. A 921 should be available from any dealer if they have ordered any. The combo with the television is pretty tough to do simply because of the shipping costs though.


Has anybody heard from VSSLL lately? I was on the "pre-paid, to be delivered any day now list" since Jan 5, but haven't been able to successfully communicate with them in any way shape or form for over a week. Tracy did say that they were having some troubles and were willing to refund. Unfortunately, I'm getting to the end of my rope.

Richard (or anybody else that can get one), please contact me or put me on your 921 list. I have an ISF calibration scheduled and need to have the box in place.

Thanks,

John


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## JohnMI

Richard King said:


> I just spoke to my Dish rep who said the combo is not available with the 921 at this time because of the lack of 921's in stock. I don't know if it would do any better time wise to order a 921 combo or a 921 alone.


Ok -- thanks for checking. I wish that I could at least get a preorder in on the HDTV w/ 921 so that I could be on the waiting list...

As for doing the 921 standalone, I just can't afford it really. I already have an HDTV and have someone local that is offering $1000 for the 40" included in the HDTV package. Therefore, my final cost on the 921 would be $600 -- which is what I can afford -- if I can get the deal.

Dish told me two weeks ago that I should be able to order it by now (mainly because I kept bugging them about the press release LAST month that said I could order it THEN and that the deal would expire on January 31st). In any case, I think I'll need to keep waiting for that.

If the ability to at least get on the waiting list for the HDTV w/ 921 for $1599 for existings comes along, please do let me know! Thanks much!

- John...


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## Rickroeder

I wired VSSLL $1,025 on Jan27, 2004 when they said the 921 were available. Its now three weeks later and I've sent 15 emails left numerous phone messages etc. No reply. I can't get them to send my money back or to contact me. I was a fool to wire them money. Of course no 921s are or were available. Today I complained to Dish ceo and VP about VSSLL being incommunicado and asked for their help with getting my money back. Aren't distributers supposed to answer phones and email? That is so rude not even replying to a customer that has sent you money. Live and learn.


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## JohnMI

On Jan27th, wouldn't VSSLL have been taking PREORDERS (i.e. to get added to the list) only still? Did VSSLL actually say that they were in-stock and available when you ordered on Jan 27th? I didn't get that impression from anyone else here...

- John...


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## jsanders

I'm sorry to hear about all of the flack you all have been getting from these guys. I just sent them a note to the 921 info address that went like this...

Hi VSSLL,

I am hearing lots of complaints about you guys, that they wire you money, and then you don't return their calls. 

How would you feel if someone treated you that way??

Normally, people pay when an item ships. It is a good idea to treat your customers fairly. 

By the way, your website doesn't give an indication of trustworthiness. 

The 921 doesn't work with the superdish right now.
There is not going to be any keyboard for the 921 which you say is "coming soon".
The picture you have of your van "Packed" with 921 boxes isn't believable. It appears that the van is only packed one level deep, no boxes in the background. If the van was full of boxes, it wouldn't be packed like that at all. The picture is deceptive.

Your 921 issues page isn't accurate.
"The overstretch issue seems to be corrected by setting the HDTV Settings to 16:9" - wrong!
"Please turn your DVR 921 off when not in use. The receiver must be turned off to receive software downloads!" - wrong!
I'm sure there are more, but I shouldn't need to critique your website.

Bottom line is, please treat people fairly and with respect. You don't give the impression of an honest retailer. I hope I am wrong. Please call them back if they paid for a product you haven't shipped. If they want their money back, you are under obligation to return it to them if you haven't shipped their product.


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## jsanders

Here is something to consider, I don't know if it is a real issue or not, maybe there is a retailer reading this page that can tell you if you are right or wrong.

If you buy something with a credit card and you want to dispute the charges on the card, you have 60 days to do so. After the 60 days are up, even if you got a raw deal, there is nothing more you can do.

I don't know if this applies to wire transfers or not, but I think it would be prudent to start calling something like the better business bureau, or tell VSSLL that you are going to call. It might be important to do it within 60 days, but I don't know. Is there anyone here that knows if this is important or not??


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## JohnMI

Richard King said:


> I just spoke to my Dish rep who said the combo is not available with the 921 at this time because of the lack of 921's in stock.


Hi there, Richard. Could you check on the HDTV w/ 921 deal for existings for $1599 again? According to my contact at Dish, retailers were supposed to be faxed information about how existings could get that deal last Wednesday (the 11th). Quite curious if any retailers got anything...

Thanks!

- John...


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## Richard King

John, 
Sorry, but the only mention of the monitor in the last fax blast (2-13-04) was the following:


> HD Monitor Compatibility: Great news! The DISH Network HD monitors are no longer exclusive to DISH Network service. Therefore, if a customer purchases a DISH Network HDTV system and at some point in the future chooses not to be a DISH Network customer, their monitor is not obsolete and will not require DISH Network receivers to function.


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## JohnMI

Well, thanks for that, at least -- since that is indeed good news! No more "Dish DVI". 

- John...


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## NickatNight

I was checking Vssll website frequently for updates on the 921 availability. In January their website stated they had 64 units up for grabs if you sent in the cash! After a day or two that webpage was changed. Then another update appeared and that page is still there at http://www.vssll.com/921availability.html but it is not linked from within their site. It appeared to me that Vssll stated they had 64 units available and asked cash to be wired to them, that's why they provided full wire transfer information. Now their website shows "No shipping dates"
Do other dealers have the 921 in stock?


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## FaxMan

NickatNight said:


> I was checking Vssll website frequently for updates on the 921 availability. In January their website stated they had 64 units up for grabs if you sent in the cash! After a day or two that webpage was changed. Then another update appeared and that page is still there at http://www.vssll.com/921availability.html but it is not linked from within their site. It appeared to me that Vssll stated they had 64 units available and asked cash to be wired to them, that's why they provided full wire transfer information. Now their website shows "No shipping dates"
> Do other dealers have the 921 in stock?


Call me stupid, call me whatever... Just call me when you can get me a 921!...

I sent vssll my money on about January 4 and have had direct telephone calls and e-mails a few times. I think they got pretty badly screwed after being told that they had about 100 921s ready to pick up the found them on Q&A hold when arrived for pickup after having arranged financing to pay for the units. I believe that this fiasco may indeed result in the demise of their business. I believe that they will eventually get refunds and/or to those who want/need them. No doubt their communications leave MUCH to be desired. I'm pretty sure that up until their supply dried up, they had delivered more 921s than anybody else.

I've finally given up gnashing my teeth, calling every few hours and stopping by the vssll site every few hours. I have my name on some additional lists which I will honor if given the opportunity. Today I got delivery of an 811 that I will use until I can get a 921. Then, I'll make the 811 available here or on e-bay.


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## Rickroeder

jgoggan said:


> On Jan27th, wouldn't VSSLL have been taking PREORDERS (i.e. to get added to the list) only still? Did VSSLL actually say that they were in-stock and available when you ordered on Jan 27th? I didn't get that impression from anyone else here...
> 
> - John...


 Yes, they said they had them available on their site. If you checked their site that week for 3 days they were available. When I called they said yes they had some that were not spoken for and if I wired the money they could get one out as soon as the roads were open. Heavy snow. Yesterday after e-mailing every bigwig at Dish I could find an e-mail address for and then e-mailing that fact to VSSLL, I finally heard from back from Tracy via e-mail saying my "check was in the mail" and something about having been waiting for a check from JVC. I'd rather have my money and find someone that will take credit cards so I won't be at the mercy of some business that won't get back to me.


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## Mainstreet

jgoggan said:


> Could you check on the HDTV w/ 921 deal for existings for $1599 again? According to my contact at Dish, retailers were supposed to be faxed information about how existings could get that deal last Wednesday (the 11th). Quite curious if any retailers got anything...


Unfortunately, the only HD upgrade offer for existing customers is still the 811 or 811 HDTV package. The 921 is still not part of a promotion for existing subs.

And, they still have this stipulation in the 811 HDTV upgrade business rules:


> *Retailer Eligibility:* Retailers may only provide an 811 Upgrade to their original customers. Customer equipment must have been invoiced to the retailer at the time the retailer originally installed the equipment to qualify the retailer as eligible to perform the Upgrade. Retailers who provide an Upgrade for a customer originally installed by a different retailer will not be eligible to receive equipment discount and incentive payments.


and just:


> *Existing Non-DHP Customer 811 HDTV System Upgrade (with 34" or 40" monitor):*
> 1) No Activation Date Restriction
> 2) Promo Code: RETHDTV must be provided at the time of 811 activation
> 3) Customer pays their retailer $999 and selects a 34" or 40" HD monitor
> 4) Customer agrees to purchase AT60/DISH Latino or higher for 12 consecutive months
> 5) Customer agrees to purchase the $9.99 per month HD Pack for 12 consecutive months
> 6) There is no CCA or $24.95 payment required from the customer in this offer
> 7) Customer signs the 811 Receiver Upgrade for Existing Non-DHP Customer Claim Form and initials the proper selection box
> 8) A valid 34" or 40" HD Monitor Kit UPC Label must be attached to the claim at the time of claim form submission (see Eligible Equipment section below for valid part numbers and UPC labels)


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## JohnMI

Mainstreet said:


> Unfortunately, the only HD upgrade offer for existing customers is still the 811 or 811 HDTV package. The 921 is still not part of a promotion for existing subs.


Yes, I know. The problem is that Dish keeps repeatedly saying otherwise. They've announced the HDTV w/ 921 as being available to existings at least twice that I know of: once in a press release in January and once during a Tech Chat. I just wish that'd actually make it available to retailers instead of just announcing it and then telling us that we can't get it. Grrr...

- John...


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