# HR2x: 0x0235 Discussion



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

HR2x: 0x0235
Staggered release began 6/12/08.

Release notes:
HR20-700, HR20-100
HR21-700, HR21-200/HR21Pro, HR21-100

This is the general discussion thread for multiple receivers.

Please don't post "Got it" or "Didn't Get it" posts, they will be deleted.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Please use this thread for discussion for all receivers.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

HR21-200 with AM21

I did a forced download last night and 235 got installed. Just a quick test this AM but here's what I saw:

- Recording done after install from KTBC-DT at 4AM on 6/12, trick play response very slow, hit the button and count to two and then it takes.

- Recording done after install from KEYE-DT at 10:40 on 6/11, trick play OK.

- This problem occured on the ATSC channels via the AM21


----------



## stroh (Oct 18, 2004)

Recording Robustness??? It either records when it should (good) or doesn't record when it should (bad). Where is there robustness in that?


----------



## mbuser (Jul 6, 2006)

Hopefully recording robustness means no more black/grey recordings and no more immediate keep or delete messages. It would be nice if their release notes were a bit more descriptive.


----------



## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

mbuser said:


> Hopefully recording robustness means no more black/grey recordings and no more immediate keep or delete messages. It would be nice if their release notes were a bit more descriptive.


no kidding.

Are those the official release notes from D* -- if so, those are the worst release notes I've ever seen. Might as well have just written "Fixed Stuff"


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

The release notes are what they are. I don't see the point in being negative about them.


----------



## dhelmet78 (Mar 30, 2007)

I see that under "improved" they put "stability".

I would think it would be listed under a new feature because mine didn't have stability before.



In all honesty, it hasn't been bad up until the last release which introduced a new feature called "pre-emptive and un-need reboot"


----------



## imposterxyz (Oct 3, 2007)

Noticed the blue lights on my HR21-200 this morning. Hit left and right arrows multiple times to turn them off. That apparently no longer works with 0x235. What's up with that? I DESPISE the blue lights.


----------



## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

I forced the download last night upon recognizing it was in the stream. I have yet to expeerience anything out of the ordinary for my own uses.

BTW, what is up with all the negativism?


----------



## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

imposterxyz said:


> Noticed the blue lights on my HR21-200 this morning. Hit left and right arrows multiple times to turn them off. That apparently no longer works with 0x235. What's up with that? I DESPISE the blue lights.


I can't stand those lights either. the first thing I do after a random reboot or an intentional reset is to turn those lights off.



Stuart Sweet said:


> The release notes are what they are. I don't see the point in being negative about them.


I guess you're right. Since we don't have any choice as to whether we can download the latest releases or not, the release notes - no matter how informative (uninformative) - are not that impactful.

If we did have a choice, I'm sure many would have chosen not to have 22d - especially if the release notes were detailed and said things like: Introduced new blank recordings and random reboots.

yeah, i guess it's better to not say anything in the release notes.

and yes, I'm angry at this DVR "upgrade"


----------



## Orangegrower (May 2, 2007)

imposterxyz said:


> Noticed the blue lights on my HR21-200 this morning. Hit left and right arrows multiple times to turn them off. That apparently no longer works with 0x235. What's up with that? I DESPISE the blue lights.


I had no problem with turning off my blue lights on my HR20-100.


----------



## Cable_X (Nov 12, 2007)

bradfjoh said:


> no kidding.
> 
> Are those the official release notes from D* -- if so, those are the worst release notes I've ever seen. Might as well have just written "Fixed Stuff"


!rolling - The "fixed stuff" just made me laugh!


----------



## drill (Jun 28, 2006)

imposterxyz said:


> Noticed the blue lights on my HR21-200 this morning. Hit left and right arrows multiple times to turn them off. That apparently no longer works with 0x235. What's up with that? I DESPISE the blue lights.


that happened with my hr21 with the last update (0x230?) anyway, a RBR fixed the issue, and I could turn off the lights after rebooting.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

smiddy said:


> I forced the download last night upon recognizing it was in the stream. I have yet to expeerience anything out of the ordinary for my own uses.
> 
> BTW, what is up with all the negativism?


I don't get that either....has been solid so far. There was a previous test version that had some lockup issues....but this one seems very stable.


----------



## mbuser (Jul 6, 2006)

No negativity here, just a desire to see more detail in the release notes so those of us who have experienced a particular problem (like black/grey recordings for example) can know if the release is supposed to fix it.


----------



## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I don't get that either....has been solid so far. There was a previous test version that had some lockup issues....but this one seems very stable.


I don't get why people are posting that a version is stable after it's only been out for 24 hours. Give it some time to fail at least.

As far as the negativity, it's the current expectation for new software releases given the last two months of exclusive NR use.


----------



## MartyS (Dec 29, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> I don't get why people are posting that a version is stable after it's only been out for 24 hours. Give it some time to fail at least.
> 
> As far as the negativity, it's the current expectation for new software releases given the last two months of exclusive NR use.


But, I suppose that it's OK to post negativity within that same 24 hour period... or should we give it some time to "settle in"?

Many of the folks out here have been using CE software and NR's on a regular basis and based on experience, they know if a particular release is stable, compared to others. I welcome those posts, especially from members whose judgement I respect.

If they say it's stable or more stable or not stable, I appreciate their input. These forums are not simply to report negativity.


----------



## dhelmet78 (Mar 30, 2007)

Yes. If it locks up, freezes, or reboots within that first 24-hour period, it is probably a problem with the update. I haven't ever heard of a bug resolving itself given enough time to "settle in".

I have, however, seen updates that appear to work fine for a day or two, then begin causing a problem. You will see this with stability problems and memory leaks. Example, the last 22d update. Mine worked fine for probably 3 days before the first reboot. If I had posted back the next day that I had no problems with the update, I would have been wrong. To this day I still have reboots from 22d. I haven't gotten the new update yet. Despite the reboots, I have no other problems with 22d. The reboot problem just took longer than 24 hours to surface. I dont imagine anyone can look at a perfectly working hr20 and know it is going to reboot unexpectedly, given that there are NO symptoms.

It boils down to, posters can sometimes be a bit premature because enough time has not passed to make a call on its stability and functionality. Not all problems show up in the first 24 hours. I don't care how much experience you have with past upgrades. Not all updates are equal. You can't cite "previous experience" to make a call about what might happen 2 days from now for an update that is NEW to everyone. None of us can predict the future.



MartyS said:


> But, I suppose that it's OK to post negativity within that same 24 hour period... or should we give it some time to "settle in"?
> 
> Many of the folks out here have been using CE software and NR's on a regular basis and based on experience, they know if a particular release is stable, compared to others. I welcome those posts, especially from members whose judgement I respect.
> 
> If they say it's stable or more stable or not stable, I appreciate their input. These forums are not simply to report negativity.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> The release notes are what they are. I don't see the point in being negative about them.


Stuart, because they border on useless. If we gave error reports to DirecTV like that they wouldn't be much help. They need to give a little better feedback.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Ken S said:


> Stuart, because they border on useless. If we gave error reports to DirecTV like that they wouldn't be much help. They need to give a little better feedback.


They don't border on useless, they are useless.


----------



## runner26 (Apr 8, 2007)

stroh said:


> Recording Robustness??? It either records when it should (good) or doesn't record when it should (bad). Where is there robustness in that?


The dictionary says robust= "strong and vigorously healthy". How in the world would that apply to "record"? Why can't they just spit it out what they have done? And why the endless patches to fix basic functions? Wasn't this software tested before release?


----------



## dyker (Feb 27, 2008)

I've had an ongoing "Unsupported Audio Signal" on my 50" Sony TV KDF50E2000 within an hour or so of trickplay. This has happened since I "upgraded" to the DVR. I've found other posts from other TVs that have this issue and some say D* has fixed their problems. Why don't they fix it for the Sony? There is not a more recent firmware from sony than what I have. Maybe I don't complain enough.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

dyker said:


> I've had an ongoing "Unsupported Audio Signal" on my 50" Sony TV KDF50E2000 within an hour or so of trickplay. This has happened since I "upgraded" to the DVR. I've found other posts from other TVs that have this issue and some say D* has fixed their problems. Why don't they fix it for the Sony? There is not a more recent firmware from sony than what I have. Maybe I don't complain enough.


If you haven't report this in the issues thread vs. this discussion thread since it's a problem that needs to be addressed.


----------



## dduitsman (Dec 8, 2007)

runner26 said:


> The dictionary says robust= "strong and vigorously healthy". How in the world would that apply to "record"? Why can't they just spit it out what they have done? And why the endless patches to fix basic functions? Wasn't this software tested before release?


runner,

In software development, the word takes on a slightly different meaning. See the first paragraph on this page.

regards,
dd


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

dyker said:


> I've had an ongoing "Unsupported Audio Signal" on my 50" Sony TV KDF50E2000 within an hour or so of trickplay. This has happened since I "upgraded" to the DVR. I've found other posts from other TVs that have this issue and some say D* has fixed their problems. Why don't they fix it for the Sony? There is not a more recent firmware from sony than what I have. Maybe I don't complain enough.


The -2000 series Sony SXRD sets, at least, seem to be extremely picky about the HDMI audio inputs. At least with the HR10 and my KDS60A2000, it doesn't matter if you have the TV speakers set to OFF, or if you are using the video-only HDMI input, it STILL says "unsupported audio format" for ten seconds after anything that restarts the audio feed. I imagine that a similar issue affects the HR2x. It may be a Sony issue, though.

In my case I was never using the audio to the TV, so I just went component, and left the AVR to handle the audio. It may be that a modern HDMI-equipped AVR in the middle would fix it.

BTW, I reported this problem several times in 2006(?) with no response or fix. Then again, it was the HR10 at the time and DirecTV had little control over that firmware. And again, it may be a Sony error.


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

bradfjoh said:


> no kidding.
> 
> Are those the official release notes from D* -- if so, those are the worst release notes I've ever seen. Might as well have just written "Fixed Stuff"


"Changed stuff" might be more accurate.

I think the real issue with this description is that the HR20 update has the same description as the HR21, yet the HR21 had an interim release (0x230) that the HR20 didn't get.


----------



## elshagon (Jul 9, 2007)

all I get so far after the firmware update is "searching for satellite 2" message on all my channels. I tested the sigal strength and it was fine.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> "Changed stuff" might be more accurate.
> 
> I think the real issue with this description is that the HR20 update has the same description as the HR21, yet the HR21 had an interim release (0x230) that the HR20 didn't get.


...and everything in that interim release is included in the new release.


----------



## [0III0] (May 17, 2008)

This update FIXed my issues.


----------



## mgroups (Apr 28, 2007)

Three spontaneous reboots in the last 24 hours. 0x235 did not cause that problem since it has been behaving like that since the previous update, but I was hoping that a new update would fix the problem. So much for stability improvments.

0x235 did produce the problem with the blue light, but only after the third reboot; and after a few tries I was able to turn it off.


----------



## azarby (Dec 15, 2006)

mgroups said:


> Three spontaneous reboots in the last 24 hours. 0x235 did not cause that problem since it has been behaving like that since the previous update, but I was hoping that a new update would fix the problem. So much for stability improvments.
> 
> 0x235 did produce the problem with the blue light, but only after the third reboot; and after a few tries I was able to turn it off.


Spontaneous rebbots are indicative of a hard drive potentially going bad. I would seriouisly consider swapping that unit out.

Bob


----------



## TomCat (Aug 31, 2002)

runner26 said:


> The dictionary says robust= "strong and vigorously healthy". How in the world would that apply to "record"? Why can't they just spit it out what they have done? And why the endless patches to fix basic functions? Wasn't this software tested before release?


Well of course it wasn't. That's our job.

I don't know, when I recorded _The Daily Show_ last night it seemed much stronger to me. Maybe even a bit more vigorous, and dare I say it--healthier than the recordings I get every other Monday-Thursday. :goodjob:

Why the endless patches? Because if you do something right the first time you don't need them and it implies that you know what you are doing, while if you don't do it right at first it implies that you don't know what you are doing and will never be able to fix it no matter how many times you blindly fire from the hip in an attempt to fix it. It also means you might break as much as you fix.


----------



## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

MartyS said:


> But, I suppose that it's OK to post negativity within that same 24 hour period... or should we give it some time to "settle in"?
> 
> Many of the folks out here have been using CE software and NR's on a regular basis and based on experience, they know if a particular release is stable, compared to others. I welcome those posts, especially from members whose judgement I respect.
> 
> If they say it's stable or more stable or not stable, I appreciate their input. These forums are not simply to report negativity.


Claiming stability within 24 hours of a new NR release is ridiculous given the fact that we have been waiting almost 2 years for stability in the HR2x series for all users.

I do not accept any opinion from a CE user because of the simple fact that they reset their box on a weekly basis to download the CE in the first place. If there is a user that has exclusively been on NR's from the outset, and hasn't performed interim resets as a matter of routine maintenance, then I will consider their opinion. Most users do not want to reset their box more than once or twice a year, and want no issues in the interim.


----------



## druskin (Sep 19, 2006)

imposterxyz said:


> Noticed the blue lights on my HR21-200 this morning. Hit left and right arrows multiple times to turn them off. That apparently no longer works with 0x235. What's up with that? I DESPISE the blue lights.


I was able to turn off the lights on my HR20-700.


----------



## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

Sorry I'm not used to posting in this type of thread so if my question seems stupid please don't get upset. When they talk about audio are they only talking about the audio on things that are recorded? Because my audio is bad when I'm just watching and listening to the TV.


----------



## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

Dolly said:


> Sorry I'm not used to posting in this type of thread so if my question seems stupid please don't get upset. When they talk about audio are they only talking about the audio on things that are recorded? Because my audio is bad when I'm just watching and listening to the TV.


Define "bad." Noisy? Mono? Has interfering sound? Stops and starts?

Some things will affect all viewing, some things only affect playback. Note that since you can rewind and (then) FF through stuff you are currently watching, it is also being recorded to disk (in a temporary file), so it wil share some of the attributes of things recorded and watched later.


----------



## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> Define "bad." Noisy? Mono? Has interfering sound? Stops and starts?
> 
> Some things will affect all viewing, some things only affect playback. Note that since you can rewind and (then) FF through stuff you are currently watching, it is also being recorded to disk (in a temporary file), so it wil share some of the attributes of things recorded and watched later.


Sorry I should have provided more details! The volume will be very low even when it is set to what should be a normal volume level so I will turn the volume up just to where it is easy to hear. Then all of a sudden the volume will jump up real loud when I haven't touched anything and then I have to turn the volume back down. Sometimes this happens just once on a channel, but sometimes more than once. I notice it a lot on the MLB Ticket (sorry I didn't write down any channel numbers). And on a few of the movie channels this has happened a little bit (again I don't have the channel numbers). I have never had it happen anywhere else.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

azarby said:


> Spontaneous rebbots are indicative of a hard drive potentially going bad. I would seriouisly consider swapping that unit out.
> 
> Bob


I've got five 20-700s that have been randomly rebooting. Aside from that, no problems at all. All five HDs can't possibly be shot. Logically.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Dr. Booda said:


> Claiming stability within 24 hours of a new NR release is ridiculous given the fact that we have been waiting almost 2 years for stability in the HR2x series for all users.


That we have. I have one HR that is completely stable at the moment. I dread the 235 NR.



> I do not accept any opinion from a CE user because of the simple fact that they reset their box on a weekly basis to download the CE in the first place.


I find it hard to believe that so many people do that. "Beta Testing", which is what the CEs are, if I understand the process correctly, is usually hard on equipment and I have been afraid to get involved.



> If there is a user that has exclusively been on NR's from the outset, and hasn't performed interim resets as a matter of routine maintenance, then I will consider their opinion.


That would be me.



> Most users do not want to reset their box more than once or twice a year, and want no issues in the interim.


I don't ever want to have to reset the damn things again, but that is a pie in the sky wish. I guess you have to expect some issues, but what I've gone thru since the Fall of 06 is unconscionable.

Rich


----------



## ktabel01 (Aug 19, 2006)

So, does this incorporate any of the updates in recent CE releases? Judging from the notes, it is "fairly" hard to tell what is included?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

runner26 said:


> The dictionary says robust= "strong and vigorously healthy". How in the world would that apply to "record"? Why can't they just spit it out what they have done? And why the endless patches to fix basic functions? Wasn't this software tested before release?


Robustness would apply to the incidence of errors or failures. There were some black screen recordings and so there have been some very rapid updates to fix the root causes of those.

To those who complain that they've had several rapid updates in a row, I question why you think that's a bad thing. Clearly our friends at DIRECTV are working as hard as they can to get fixes out there.

As far as testing, not only are software releases tested here by a very varied group, they're tested internally as well as possible in a tightly controlled situation. However, with several hundred thousand HR2x's out there it's impossible to test every situation. So they rely on us to report those issues, and they nimbly address everything they find.


----------



## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Robustness would apply to the incidence of errors or failures. There were some black screen recordings and so there have been some very rapid updates to fix the root causes of those.
> 
> ....


So, are you saying this release fixes the black/grey/blank recording issues???

I would be very happy if this were the case.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Robustness would apply to the incidence of errors or failures. There were some black screen recordings and so there have been some very rapid updates to fix the root causes of those.
> 
> To those who complain that they've had several rapid updates in a row, I question why you think that's a bad thing. Clearly our friends at DIRECTV are working as hard as they can to get fixes out there.
> 
> As far as testing, not only are software releases tested here by a very varied group, they're tested internally as well as possible in a tightly controlled situation. However, with several hundred thousand HR2x's out there it's impossible to test every situation. So they rely on us to report those issues, and they nimbly address everything they find.


Stuart,

I don't think many are complaining about the fixes they're complaining and frustrated that nearly two years after the release of this box basic functions still require such frequent updates and, worse, still fail to work as advertised for so many people. In many cases those updates cause new problems and lockups.

It also becomes clearer to many that the DirecTV QA process is not doing an adequate job of ensuring their customers a "robust" and "stable" machine. We're not talking about some company working out of a garage...this is a $17 billion dollar company making large profits that controls all of the hardware and software within the system...they could do a whole lot better than they have.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

They could do a whole lot worse. I know people with two year old Motorola cable HD DVRs that haven't received a single update in two years, and still don't work as advertised. 

There's room for improvement in any system, I agree, and my heart goes out to those with legitimate issues -- and I acknowledge that it's possible there are legitimate issues -- but sometime you have to have a nimble response. When you see users with blackscreen recordings, you can't wait 6 months for a fully tested fix, you have to address that immediately, as well as you can, and then you need to polish the fix as quickly as you can and get that out there. 

Believe me, if our DBSTalkers with blackscreen recordings had to wait until a perfectly polished piece of code were available, it would take a lot longer to fix and there would be a lot more blackscreen recordings.


----------



## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> They could do a whole lot worse. I know people with two year old Motorola cable HD DVRs that haven't received a single update in two years, and still don't work as advertised.
> 
> There's room for improvement in any system, I agree, and my heart goes out to those with legitimate issues -- and I acknowledge that it's possible there are legitimate issues -- but sometime you have to have a nimble response. When you see users with blackscreen recordings, you can't wait 6 months for a fully tested fix, you have to address that immediately, as well as you can, and then you need to polish the fix as quickly as you can and get that out there.
> 
> Believe me, if our DBSTalkers with blackscreen recordings had to wait until a perfectly polished piece of code were available, it would take a lot longer to fix and there would be a lot more blackscreen recordings.


Stuart,

Why is it there are only two choices in the DirecTV HR2x/DBSTalk software world?

1. Perfectly polished software.
2. Bug-ridden software which fails to ever work...or as some would say...P.o.S.

The HR2X is neither and as much as no one expects they intentionally would release a P.o.S. no one is expecting "perfectly polished code". But, after 20 some odd months it's not unreasonable for people to expect a machine that doesn't require frequent updates to accomplish its basic tasks in a stable and "robust" manner.

It's hard to feel "our friends" are making progress when the machine has become less stable over the past few months than it was with 18a (I may be wrong on the release number). It's getting to be a one step forwared, two back type of thing.

Something is very wrong with the release process and that is what has people getting frustrated.


----------



## runner26 (Apr 8, 2007)

Ken S said:


> Stuart,
> 
> Why is it there are only two choices in the DirecTV HR2x/DBSTalk software world?
> 
> ...


I would be able to buy all this "we are doing the best we can" if I hadn't had a couple of hr10-250 tivo based receivers that worked flawlessly for years. I can only remember one or two updates to the software in these receivers and that was to add new features. I don't understand what having a couple hundred thousand of these boxes out there has to do with anything. They are a massed produced item. Is Stewart saying that each one is different? I know that there were thousands of tivo based directv receivers out there without these issues.


----------



## Eben (Sep 10, 2007)

Not sure I'm posting this in the right place: When I go into To Do list to, e.g., extend recording time on a program, a "helpful" message pops up to tell me that a quick way to get to the To Do list is to press List, then the yellow button, but when I press List, yellow button, there's another "helpful" message that says to get to the To Do list, press Menu, Manage My Recordings. (I have an HR21-100.) What's the deal?


----------



## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Eben said:


> Not sure I'm posting this in the right place: When I go into To Do list to, e.g., extend recording time on a program, a "helpful" message pops up to tell me that a quick way to get to the To Do list is to press List, then the yellow button, but when I press List, yellow button, there's another "helpful" message that says to get to the To Do list, press Menu, Manage My Recordings. (I have an HR21-100.) What's the deal?


I am not sure why you are getting the message to press the yellow button when in "My Playlist" to get to the "to do list". A while back that would take you there but it was removed a few months ago and now you have to go into the menu-->manage recordings-->to do list.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Eben said:


> Not sure I'm posting this in the right place: When I go into To Do list to, e.g., extend recording time on a program, a "helpful" message pops up to tell me that a quick way to get to the To Do list is to press List, then the yellow button, but when I press List, yellow button, there's another "helpful" message that says to get to the To Do list, press Menu, Manage My Recordings. (I have an HR21-100.) What's the deal?


How long have you had that 21 and what software version is on it now?

Rich


----------



## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

The day before yesterday, one of the infamous Florida thunderstorms rolled thru, knocking out power for 45 minutes. No big deal, except the UPS unit didn't keep the DVR running. Yes, it was hooked up and yes, it kicked in fine, keeping the TV and other attached box running fine. The DVR went totally off.

Another thing, a few days earlier there was just a light flicker on the power and it rebooted then, too. So I don't know if the UPS isn't kicking in quick enough and is letting the power sag too much and the DVR just goes down. Or maybe something in the DVR doesn't like the power provided by the UPS. _I could not get it to power on from the UPS unit at all during the long outage._
And worst of all, when the unit came back up - my recorded programs were all gone, my To-Do list was wiped out along with the program guide -- it looks like the disk got reformatted during the process.

But, always looking for the positive, this morning I noticed that my Media Share is back~! I've done nothing to change it but it's been missing since this box was installed three weeks ago. So maybe the 0X235 software cleaned up that problem, hopefully. I've sure spent enough time trying to resolve that one.

LOL - three software changes in three weeks! :lol:


----------



## Seabow (Dec 26, 2006)

I haven't experienced any problems with any of the previous updates... until today. Got the update last night and my picture now freezes after 5 or 10 minutes. I have to switch to another channel and back then it's okay for awhile. I just did a RBR, we'll see if that solves the problem.


----------



## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

My HR20-100 is offline [no one's in the guesthouse].

Still, I rec'd the 0x235 download, this morning, on my HR20-700. Do we need a separate thread for this?

Though I haven't had any problems at all, it may have solved a problem I've had[?]. Trouble is - it's a "cold start" problem and I guess I'll wait another hour to check it out. Just turned the critter off.


----------



## Eben (Sep 10, 2007)

rich584 said:


> How long have you had that 21 and what software version is on it now?
> 
> Rich


Got it May 31. Pretty sure it has the latest version (know for sure it downloaded the release just before the latest because it did that when I was first setting it up). There's another undocumented trick it won't seem to do: soft padding. When I follow the directions (EXTENDING TIME (PADDING) - Press MENU > Manage Recordings > SELECT the program ► Soft Padding - Automatically allows you to stop a first show a few minutes late or start the next show a few minutes early on two channels. My Playlist looks like four shows are recording at once!) I can't find the Soft Padding option (plus the steps omit selecting the To Do list).


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Eben said:


> Got it May 31. Pretty sure it has the latest version (know for sure it downloaded the release just before the latest because it did that when I was first setting it up). There's another undocumented trick it won't seem to do: soft padding. When I follow the directions (EXTENDING TIME (PADDING) - Press MENU > Manage Recordings > SELECT the program ► Soft Padding - Automatically allows you to stop a first show a few minutes late or start the next show a few minutes early on two channels. My Playlist looks like four shows are recording at once!) I can't find the Soft Padding option (plus the steps omit selecting the To Do list).


This probably won't help you and I'll probably get flamed for this statement: I've never had a 100, 20 or 21, that worked correctly. Personally I wouldn't own one. If I got one for a replacement, it would go right back. Just my opinion, but it is based on having about 15 100s that were all clunkers. And, yes, if it downloaded immediately you got the newest version available.

Rich


----------



## runner26 (Apr 8, 2007)

rich584 said:


> This probably won't help you and I'll probably get flamed for this statement: I've never had a 100, 20 or 21, that worked correctly. Personally I wouldn't own one. If I got one for a replacement, it would go right back. Just my opinion, but it is based on having about 15 100s that were all clunkers. And, yes, if it downloaded immediately you got the newest version available.
> 
> Rich


Same question that NO ONE seems to want to answer lest of all Directv. Why is that the tivo based boxes are rock solid reliable and the HRxx boxes after two years are still being patched over and over in search of "robustness". To put it in a nut shell "why don't these boxes work." I think that the people who are giving Directv their hard earned dough deserve an answer!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

runner26 said:


> Same question that NO ONE seems to want to answer lest of all Directv. Why is that the tivo based boxes are rock solid reliable and the HRxx boxes after two years are still being patched over and over in search of "robustness". To put it in a nut shell "why don't these boxes work." I think that the people who are giving Directv their hard earned dough deserve an answer!


They do work and work properly. This NR, got it this morning, has not exhibited any problems so far on any of my sets. My five 20s are so reliable that I've disabled every TiVo I had backing up the 20s.

I had problems with the TiVos. They weren't perfect. I went thru quite a few of them. You just gotta have patience with these things. The 20/21s have a learning curve that is nothing short of unbelievable for a device that replaced relatively simple VCRs. D* either had a stroke of genius or made a colossal blunder releasing the first HR20s when they did. Now, I think what they did was a good business decision, risky as hell, but good. And it worked out well for us, too.

Patience,

Rich


----------



## runner26 (Apr 8, 2007)

rich584 said:


> They do work and work properly. This NR, got it this morning, has not exhibited any problems so far on any of my sets. My five 20s are so reliable that I've disabled every TiVo I had backing up the 20s.
> 
> I had problems with the TiVos. They weren't perfect. I went thru quite a few of them. You just gotta have patience with these things. The 20/21s have a learning curve that is nothing short of unbelievable for a device that replaced relatively simple VCRs. D* either had a stroke of genius or made a colossal blunder releasing the first HR20s when they did. Now, I think what they did was a good business decision, risky as hell, but good. And it worked out well for us, too.
> 
> ...


Your five work. Well that settles it. My mistake. I guess the THOUSANDs of complaints that are posted here every month are from people who are delusional! Come on if this is your idea of "working" what would count as "not working"? I guess since these pos haven't actually killed anybody that counts as success.


----------



## dduitsman (Dec 8, 2007)

runner26 said:


> Your five work. Well that settles it. My mistake. I guess the THOUSANDs of complaints that are posted here every month are from people who are delusional! Come on if this is your idea of "working" what would count as "not working"? I guess since these pos haven't actually killed anybody that counts as success.


runner,

I've just reviewed all of your posts - and I don't see where you identify what problems you're having. I do sense your frustration though.

What units do you have and what are they doing that makes you feel this way?

regards,
dd


----------



## decker12 (Jan 10, 2008)

Since we received our HR21-700 in December, if there's a show we absolutely HAVE to see and it cannot be missed, we also record it on our old DirecTivo in the bedroom. That's how little we regard the reliability of our HR-21-700. You should see the list of voodoo do's and don'ts that my wife and I follow. Disconnect the VOD Beta before you want to record anything. Don't pause live TV while recording 2 things. Don't pause recorded shows or use Start Over while recording 2 things. Don't rewind the buffer past the 0:00 mark for shows or it'll force a reset. The list goes on and on.

Sure, many of these things may have been resolved with the updates over the past 6 months, but with the useless release notes, you can never tell. So we just have to keep following the voodoo list.

Of course, as they say, "it is what it is" and since we can't pick and choose national release updates, we just have to suck it up and deal with it.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

And have you contacted DirecTV about the long list of problems that you're having this this DVR and what was their response?


----------



## ambitin (Dec 1, 2007)

I observe an interesting improvement. We've been getting "searching for satellite 771" (that is not the exact message, sorry) sporadically on our two HR21-700s. In the past, when we saw the error, we'd have to reset the DVR before it would let us watch tv again. Today while flipping channels, "searching for satellite 771" flashed onto the screen for about 1 second and then immediately disappeared to display the expected program. We didn't have to reset, woohoo!

Justin


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

runner26 said:


> I guess the THOUSANDs of complaints that are posted here every month are from people who are delusional!


If you are going to start counting those who say their HR2x is working well versus those who say it isn't, you will lose. Every few months, somebody starts a satisfaction poll here. Every single time, more people are happy than unhappy with their HR2x.



> Come on if this is your idea of "working" what would count as "not working"? I guess since these pos haven't actually killed anybody that counts as success.


Nice purple prose. This is a better argument, although I have to go with dduitsman's request upthread. What are your specific complaints with your HR2x, runner26? How is it not functioning properly and what have you done to try and fix the problem?

If I knew that some people were very satisfied with their HR2x DVRs and mine wasn't working well, I'd do everything I could to try and figure out what was the difference. How can I make my situation more like theirs? Are you trying to do this, runner26?


----------



## ziggy29 (Nov 18, 2004)

runner26 said:


> Your five work. Well that settles it. My mistake. I guess the THOUSANDs of complaints that are posted here every month are from people who are delusional! Come on if this is your idea of "working" what would count as "not working"? I guess since these pos haven't actually killed anybody that counts as success.


I wouldn't say someone is being unreasonable if they say product killed their box. But the nature of offering products and customer satisfaction is that someone who is very unsatisfied is 20 times more likely to register their dissatisfaction in public than someone who is very satisfied. My job is measuring customer satisfaction, so I'm quite familiar with these things.

Not only that, but few people who are "very satisfied" go out of their way to say so, unlike those who are very unsatisfied.

It's unfortunate, but to some degree that's the way technology is. An update can help 90% of the people or more, but if it kills 2%, you'll hear more from the 2% than the 90%.


----------



## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

RAD said:


> And have you contacted DirecTV about the long list of problems that you're having this this DVR and what was their response?


Why bother contacting DirecTV when their CSR's are ignorant and their ultimate canned problem resolution decision is to send out a refurb box?

It's been almost two years now and there are still stability and robustness issues with the NR releases (as evidenced by DirecTV's own release notes). My five year old HR10-250 has a reboot issue once every six months, and it has never missed a recording.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

OK, let's try to steer this a little more to the productive side, ok? I understand the frustration but I think blanket statements and insults aren't going to help the situation.


----------



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> OK, let's try to steer this a little more to the productive side, ok? I understand the frustration but I think blanket statements and insults aren't going to help the situation.


Agreed.

But you have to admit that three NR in three months is a bit much. Especially as they are for 'robustness' and 'stability'.

I've been in the SD business for over 10 years and when we release patches that quickly, it usually means somebody in QA f*cked up or that a complete regression analysis was not performed and something slipped through the cracks.


----------



## harper (Jan 1, 2006)

I think Directv is more interested in adding "features" to the dvr that allows them to charge more for these features.

Last night, 4 recorded shows refused to play back. The black screen came up, and the only option I had was to "delete, or not delete" the program. It would not play.

It is bull**** that I pay a lot of money a month to Directv so I can beta test for them.

I plan to call them today, demanding a reduction in my monthly fee, until the dvr does what it says it will do.

Regards.......Harper


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Harper, if you're not in the CE program you might want to look into it. The latest CE software has a way to generate error reports back to DirecTV and they're interested in them for help to find the cause of this problem, see http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=127197.


----------



## harper (Jan 1, 2006)

I've got no problem doing that.

I just don't think it is right to charge me a full monthly fee for equipment that is not dependable, "buggy" at best, and does not do what is claimed on a consistent basis.

Regards.......Harper


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

harper said:


> I've got no problem doing that.
> 
> I just don't think it is right to charge me a full monthly fee for equipment that is not dependable, "buggy" at best, and does not do what is claimed on a consistent basis.
> 
> Regards.......Harper


IMHO the problem is that it's not all HD DVR's that have problems. I have two HR20-700's and a HR21-200 and I don't see most of the problems that others report, like the blank/gray recordings. So if they folks that are seeing it can provide documentation back to D* they might be able to find the root cause and fix it. If none of their boxes that they use for testing have the problem, so they can't track down the cause, it's kind of hard to fix.


----------



## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

ATARI said:


> Agreed.
> 
> But you have to admit that three NR in three months is a bit much. Especially as they are for 'robustness' and 'stability'.


I am guessing that most of of us on this forum are heavy users and probably set an average of 5 recordings a day. That means 450 recordings in 3 months and you've missed 3?

That doesn't seem all that terrible to me. I'd like to see 100% dependability but 99% ain't bad.

A few months ago, I was averaging one miss out of every 20 recordings, one every 4-5 days or so. That has dropped signficantly and now it is down to once a month and it is a real surprise when it happens - and it happens about as often as my old DirecTiVo HR10-250.


----------



## decker12 (Jan 10, 2008)

RAD said:


> And have you contacted DirecTV about the long list of problems that you're having this this DVR and what was their response?


We've already done a swap in February and could immediately, with the installer sitting in my living room, duplicate some of the same problems with the new unit. After the next NR, the problem went away with the new unit, as well as with a friend's unit that had our same problem.

DirecTV seems to follow the "your hardware must be broken, let's replace it" route. Who knows, maybe it's cheaper than adding resources into the software development or QA process. That's why we don't even bother calling them anymore when we run into a Guide bug or the audio dropping out or the black-screen recording bug, because we know their response will be to schedule a whole Saturday worth of waiting so they can bring over a new/refurb unit that will exhibit the same software problems with the added inconvenience of a completely erased drive and default settings. They should instead be focusing on the core of the problem, which is the software that runs on the unit.

Meanwhile, when there's two shows on at the same time we absolutely want to record, we tiptoe around the unit like it's a fragile piece of crystal. Unplug the ethernet cable. Don't leave anything on pause for more than a few minutes. Don't delete whole folders while it's recording. Don't touch the 30 second skip button if you're close to the end of the buffer. Better yet, don't touch anything at all, just put down the remote and load up a DVD or the Xbox until it's done. Finally, go in the bedroom and setup the DirectTivo to record the more important show "just in case".

Fortunately, with summer coming, most of the "can't miss it" prime time shows we watch are already finished (House, Lost, American Idol, etc). We'll have more leeway to experiment with what works what's still buggy, and maybe get rid of some of this tip-toeing we have to do.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Well Decker, if you don't want to keep persuing your problems with D* don't know what else to say. You sound like one of the unlucky one's that for some reason have tons of problems vs. the ones that don't. I have a DVR that records two shows at once every day, no problems. I have all them connected to my network which has 18 devices connected to it, no problems. If you would like to help get your problems solved I'd recommend signing up for the CE process so you can assist DirecTV with testing their software since bug reports there should have a bit more impact with the software folks. Or don't be part of the solution and just get more and more pi**ed off when something doesn't work.


----------



## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

decker12 said:


> Meanwhile, when there's two shows on at the same time we absolutely want to record, we tiptoe around the unit like it's a fragile piece of crystal. Unplug the ethernet cable. Don't leave anything on pause for more than a few minutes. Don't delete whole folders while it's recording. Don't touch the 30 second skip button if you're close to the end of the buffer. Better yet, don't touch anything at all, just put down the remote and load up a DVD or the Xbox until it's done. Finally, go in the bedroom and setup the DirectTivo to record the more important show "just in case".


this sounds exactly like our household.. don't mess with the precious HR20 .. if you do something, anything, it might not record your shows. 

Although, with this 35 release, I was able to record the Mole for the first time in 3 weeks on the HR20 and not have to rely on the Tivo in the Bedroom.



RAD said:


> Well Decker, if you don't want to keep persuing your problems with D* don't know what else to say. You sound like one of the unlucky one's that for some reason have tons of problems vs. the ones that don't. I have a DVR that records two shows at once every day, no problems. I have all them connected to my network which has 18 devices connected to it, no problems. If you would like to help get your problems solved I'd recommend signing up for the CE process so you can assist DirecTV with testing their software since bug reports there should have a bit more impact with the software folks. Or don't be part of the solution and just get more and more pi**ed off when something doesn't work.


As far as signing up for the CE process in order to get things fixed instead of getting upset about it... How about D* puts out a good product? If you're toaster doesn't work, do you become part of the solution there too? Geesh 

This isn't 2001. DVRs have been out for a while. Why is it so difficult for people to understand that they should work - that people should be satisified with them. Why do individuals get upset that people complain when in a recent poll over 30% of people felt that the stability of the system has regressed over the past 6 months. This product has problems - loads of them.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

bradfjoh said:


> As far as signing up for the CE process in order to get things fixed instead of getting upset about it... How about D* puts out a good product? If you're toaster doesn't work, do you become part of the solution there too? Geesh
> 
> This isn't 2001. DVRs have been out for a while. Why is it so difficult for people to understand that they should work - that people should be satisified with them. Why do individuals get upset that people complain when in a recent poll over 30% of people felt that the stability of the system has regressed over the past 6 months. This product has problems - loads of them.


If I have a toaster that doesn't work I keep taking it back to get another one until it does, I don't just sit back and post saying how bad the toaster is.

Listen, I'm not saying that people aren't having problems and that the box is perfect. All I'm saying is of you're not happy with it keep after D* by either calling them up to try to get it resolved, maybe if they come up against a brick wall with your problem they'll let you out of your commitment and you can go to another provide that will make you happier.

As for the CE process, guess that's your decision, be part of the solution to get a box that works to your satisifcation or just sit back and take it and fume all the time. I, for one, if presented with the chance to make the product better will take them up on the offer.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Is there a new feature with this software or has it existed all along and I didn't know about it before last night?

I was watching a recorded program and I unconsciously hit the Previous button. The DVR switched back to live TV, on the last channel I was watching. Pressing Previous again took me back to my recorded program, picking up where I had left off. The Previous button toggled between the two, live TV and the recorded program. Pretty cool feature. If something is going to happen on live TV but you don't know when, you could watch a recording, checking back to live TV every now and then. Because the single live buffer is saving that channel, if you drop in after the event has started, you can just scan back to its beginning.

So, did I discover something new or have I always been an idiot?


----------



## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm one of the lucky ones and have had almost no problems with either of my HR20 boxes. I actually had more problems with my TIVO DVR.
I find it interesting that some of us have no problems and some have so many problems. Maybe it happens and we don't hear about it, but if I were DirecTV's engineering or similar group I'd find some of the people on this board who are having all the problems and setup detail measurement and testing at their locations and then I'd take one of these problem DVR's and tear it apart and determine what is different. It has to be environmental or hardware related.

My .02


----------



## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Is there a new feature with this software or has it existed all along and I didn't know about it before last night?
> 
> I was watching a recorded program and I unconsciously hit the Previous button. The DVR switched back to live TV, on the last channel I was watching. Pressing Previous again took me back to my recorded program, picking up where I had left off. The Previous button toggled between the two, live TV and the recorded program. Pretty cool feature. If something is going to happen on live TV but you don't know when, you could watch a recording, checking back to live TV every now and then. Because the single live buffer is saving that channel, if you drop in after the event has started, you can just scan back to its beginning.
> 
> So, did I discover something new or have I always been an idiot?


I'm pretty sure that this has been around for a while. I also stumbled across it by accident.


----------



## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

ATARI said:


> Agreed.
> 
> But you have to admit that three NR in three months is a bit much. Especially as they are for 'robustness' and 'stability'.
> 
> I've been in the SD business for over 10 years and when we release patches that quickly, it usually means somebody in QA f*cked up or that a complete regression analysis was not performed and something slipped through the cracks.


+1

The good news about all of this is that DirecTV realizes there is a serious issue and appears to be trying to fix it. Regardless, it should never have happened in the first place as you described. I do think that things are improving though.

However, when I look at the most recent CE release notes, I get the chills. There's a lot of new stuff in there, and we are most likely going to have to repeat this "experience" all over again soon unless they have completely revamped their internal QA program.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

runner26 said:


> Your five work. Well that settles it. My mistake. I guess the THOUSANDs of complaints that are posted here every month are from people who are delusional! Come on if this is your idea of "working" what would count as "not working"? I guess since these pos haven't actually killed anybody that counts as success.


Oh, believe me, I fully expect one of them to crash any minute now. But right this minute they are actually working correctly, as far as I know. I've had problems with them since the fall of 06. I've lost count of how many 20s I've had, and I've only had two 21s. I'm just amazed that I got the NR yesterday and my five 20s and my 21 are all working correctly.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Is there a new feature with this software or has it existed all along and I didn't know about it before last night?
> 
> I was watching a recorded program and I unconsciously hit the Previous button. The DVR switched back to live TV, on the last channel I was watching. Pressing Previous again took me back to my recorded program, picking up where I had left off. The Previous button toggled between the two, live TV and the recorded program. Pretty cool feature. If something is going to happen on live TV but you don't know when, you could watch a recording, checking back to live TV every now and then. Because the single live buffer is saving that channel, if you drop in after the event has started, you can just scan back to its beginning.
> 
> So, did I discover something new or have I always been an idiot?


Not new, but hard to find. I found it the same way you did. Probably a lot more stuff that no one has talked about for a while.

Rich


----------



## randude (Feb 3, 2008)

I have had my hr21 for a few months now and I have to say that this is the first release I have had major problems with. Yes, I have had the no data recordings, the lip sync issues, etc but nothing that brought the box down. With this release I am now getting box lockups on a regular basis. The picture will be frozen with audio still working. The remote and front keypad is non-responsive. I really hope they get some of the major bugs worked out or better yet, strike a deal with Tivo and continue development on the directivo! hehe


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

I am truly puzzled by reports from various users that "My HR2x works flawlessly" or "my unit has worked perfectly for two years." What is the point of these posts? The units clearly had well documented bugs that were later fixed by D*. I think that if the units really worked flawlessly, there would not have been a need for numerous software updates in such a short period of time.

My HR21 was not great out of the box, and continues to be about the same. The skip function was only fair, but now seems somewhat worse. I now sometimes get skipped ahead or back in unpredictable units of time. The unit appears to momentarily lock up when you do multiple skips, then react unpredictably as it processes the still pending commands from the remote. I believe these are software issues.

The other software issues that bother me (like poor search function, no DLB, unusable slo-mo, and the 50 series limit) still do not appear to have been addressed.

I think a fair interpretation of the "increased robustness" release note is "fix bugs." There is nothing wrong with fixing bugs. I just wish D* would provide useful information to the user base about what is going on, and fix basic functions like skip and slo-mo!


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> They could do a whole lot worse. I know people with two year old Motorola cable HD DVRs that haven't received a single update in two years, and still don't work as advertised.
> 
> There's room for improvement in any system, I agree, and my heart goes out to those with legitimate issues -- and I acknowledge that it's possible there are legitimate issues -- but sometime you have to have a nimble response. When you see users with blackscreen recordings, you can't wait 6 months for a fully tested fix, you have to address that immediately, as well as you can, and then you need to polish the fix as quickly as you can and get that out there.
> 
> Believe me, if our DBSTalkers with blackscreen recordings had to wait until a perfectly polished piece of code were available, it would take a lot longer to fix and there would be a lot more blackscreen recordings.


Stuart:

I think your post highlights the problem. D* apparently released a piece of code that wasn't fully tested and created some serious user problems. Its solution (perhaps the best of two bad alternatives) was to push out another piece of code that may also have had limited testing, but will hopefully fix the worst of the reported bugs.

I am sure people at D* worked late into the night to make that happen, but the software release Quality Assurance process needs to be revisited.

I really don't want to be an involuntary beta tester. I expect software for a DVR to be really stable and well tested before it is released. It's a consumer electronics item, not a PC. D* should get the core DVR functions and existing features working really well before it tries to add new functions and features.


----------



## jsmuga (Jan 3, 2008)

I noticed on one of my HR21-700's the recordings are starting late again.


----------



## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

This release has by far been the worst for me. Blank recordings, stuttered playback of recordings, stuttered live TV and a complete system lockup.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

CTJon said:


> I'm one of the lucky ones and have had almost no problems with either of my HR20 boxes. I actually had more problems with my TIVO DVR.
> I find it interesting that some of us have no problems and some have so many problems. Maybe it happens and we don't hear about it, but if I were DirecTV's engineering or similar group I'd find some of the people on this board who are having all the problems and setup detail measurement and testing at their locations and then I'd take one of these problem DVR's and tear it apart and determine what is different. It has to be environmental or hardware related.
> 
> My .02


I think this post makes lots of sense, and hope D* is doing this.

However, I still think the problem ultimately lies with the software. I think there is enough variation in hardware and usage patterns that the software is stressed in different ways by different users. Your idea is still the best way to localize the problems.

I often record two channels, while watching a recorded program, while searching and setting new recording items. I think this pushes the hardware pretty hard, leading to errors. On the TIVO box, you got a please wait or similar message (you also did not have PIG). The HR21 often locks up or records poorly under similar circumstances.

Potential fixes: One. new hardware with more processor power, more memory and and additional chip sets to handle the MPEG4 decoding, etc. Two, major changes to the software architecture and code to handle key functions more efficiently. The HR21 software is bloated and slooooow. It needs to be much more nimble, with less emphasis on "features" until more powerful hardware is available for the platform. One nice thing about the TIVO box, it was always snappy in responding to the remote and did scheduling in near real time.

The HR2x software team also needs a new set of priorities.

1. Stability;
2. Recording robustness;
3. Remote responsiveness;
4. Key feature implementation (DLB, 50+ series, slo-mo, etc.); and
5. User interface upgrade

Everything else (like DOD and MRV can go on hold until that is done).

Many early adopters are frustrated with the HR2x units. If you think they complain a lot, wait until the average viewer gets bogged down in trying to figure out how to maker the HR2x units/installs work dependably. I think many will just throw up their hands and try something else.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

I returned from a week's vacation to find my blue lights on and this new national release installed.

Local CBS HD channel had worst audio and video stuttering that I have yet encountered in over a year. Switched to CBS OTA HD channel and problems disappeared. 

I can't say for sure the new software is to blame, but it looks that way...

Bill


----------



## dsm (Jul 11, 2004)

SubSlr08 said:


> _I could not get it to power on from the UPS unit at all during the long outage._


Subsrl08,

This seems too obvious, but could you take a closer look at your UPS? Many of them have extra ports that are line buffered, but they don't supply power from the battery. It sure sounds like you've got the DVR plugged into one of those sockets.

-steve


----------



## decker12 (Jan 10, 2008)

RAD said:


> Well Decker, if you don't want to keep persuing your problems with D* don't know what else to say. You sound like one of the unlucky one's that for some reason have tons of problems vs. the ones that don't. I have a DVR that records two shows at once every day, no problems. I have all them connected to my network which has 18 devices connected to it, no problems. If you would like to help get your problems solved I'd recommend signing up for the CE process so you can assist DirecTV with testing their software since bug reports there should have a bit more impact with the software folks. Or don't be part of the solution and just get more and more pi**ed off when something doesn't work.


Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, the CE process will specifically provide me with an unstable machine with untested software, and my wife would kill me. I can't replace a ~75% reliable machine with a ~?? "unknown" reliable machine. What I mean to say is that we have enough problems with "tested" and "improved reliability" National Releases, let alone beta software!

I would be more than willing to sign up for CE if DTV would send me a new unit for free that I could put in the spare bedroom (not likely).

Reminds me of what happens in my line of work: Apple's 10.5.3 Leopard has serious problems networking with my enterprise. There are very specific issues and I need direct access to their networking developers to report and resolve the problems. Going to the Apple store and asking at the Genius bar or swapping out my Macbook Pro for another unit won't make a difference. I'm fortunate that I have enough spare Macs at work to run various test configurations, but I don't have spare HR21s at home to do the same.

So it's a bit of a catch 22. My system is unreliable, yet I have no way to report the SPECIFIC problems to DTV. Calling them (like we did in Februrary) didn't solve the problem, it just replaced the system with fresh, empty hardware and I suspect that if I were to call them again, it would be the same resolution. There's no option to talk to a software developer when you call DTV, the call center person who answers the phone has no resolution other than hardware replacement, and the installers don't know what I'm referring to (as they shouldn't).

The CE program will allow me some level of reporting, yet it would make my system even more unreliable.

I know I'm getting a bit off topic for this discussion and I apologize - my main reason for writing my posts was to sound off on the vagueness of the release notes. For someone like me, very detailed release notes would be a huge benefit.


----------



## 430970 (Nov 21, 2005)

Nicholsen said:


> The HR2x software team also needs a new set of priorities.
> 
> 1. Stability;
> 2. Recording robustness;
> ...


As someone who follows these boards closely, I can wholeheartedly agree. I have an HR10 now that's reliable, but I know I can't/won't get all the new HD channels until I get an HR2x. Discussions about DLB (even though I like it), MRV, DOD, PiG, the UI, etc. are all matters of preference, IMHO. But my own interest in (and as importantly, the WAF for) a HD DVR that doesn't reliablity reliably record, periodically (or often) fails to play back it's recordings, and can't be used without stuttering for FF/REW activities is *zero*

Please note that I'm not saying the HR2x is that poorly performing HD DVR I described, but the continued frequency of major software releases is troubling. On one hand, it's encouraging b/c it means DirecTV admits there are issues and is trying to fix them. On the other hand, it's discouraging b/c nearly 2 years after the release of a CE device, they can't go more than a month without attempting to rollout major fixes for core functionality, and in recent months (when I felt like the collective wisdom was things were getting better) it seems to roll backwards in stability quite often. 

Look, I understand that there are a number of people for whom these problems don't exist. But you have to admit there's no way a company like DirecTV would spend resources getting CEs and NRs out the door if the number of people experiencing the problem wasn't "significant". Doesn't have to be a majority, or even 40%. If it were merely 1% of the people experiencing these issues, we wouldn't see so many fixes. For me, if there's a 10 or 20% chance I'm gonna experience basic functionality failure on a regular basis, that's too high for me to risk a platform shift. And completely unscientifically, my estimate is that the failure rate is higher than that.

Fair or not, this is a CE device. Lack of advanced features (ESATA, MRV, DOD) or optional/preference items don't bug most people (except us geeky nit-pickers on the boards). But if DirecTV wants to keep its high-value, premium dollar customers, they need to have SD and HD DVRs that "just work", and hopefully exceed the performance of previous generations. I think right now the jury is out on whether, overall, the HR2x even meets what came before.


----------



## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

decker12 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, the CE process will specifically provide me with an unstable machine with untested software, and my wife would kill me. I can't replace a ~75% reliable machine with a ~?? "unknown" reliable machine. What I mean to say is that we have enough problems with "tested" and "improved reliability" National Releases, let alone beta software!
> 
> I would be more than willing to sign up for CE if DTV would send me a new unit for free that I could put in the spare bedroom (not likely).


Well, your chioce. Who knows, you might get a machine what's more then 75% reliable if you tried it. If not just reload the current national release (a force reload outside the CE window takes you back) and no harm/no foul.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Nicholsen said:


> The HR2x software team also needs a new set of priorities.
> 
> 1. Stability;
> 2. Recording robustness;
> ...


Regarding needing _new priorities_, I thought this upgrade addressed your top two.

Beyond that, don't you think adding DLB might cause stability issues? I think a lot of the problems we saw with software three months ago was because of the implementation of a single live buffer. Slow motion doesn't exist in these DVRs. Aren't you really begging for stability troubles adding it in? They may be basic features but they are still features.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like to have DLB and slo-mo, but I can live without those right now. I think you got it right with your first two requests, Nicholson. Number one, I want a DVR that works (I'm one of the fortunate ones whose machine does, mostly). I just see a contradiction here. If I have to continue to only have two favorites lists (my pet peeve) but instead get a more reliable DVR, I'll take that in a New York minute. And it seems like with the last few upgrades, specifically focusing on reliability issues and not features, DirecTV agrees.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

I think there is still work to be done on stability and robustness issues. That needs to remain Job One. 

I agree that introducing DLB (or any other advanced feature) may introduce new bugs. I would prefer that they have a new release in beta testing for 3 -6 months before they roll it out nationally. That would reduce the risk of a major meltdown, and let them introduce one or two cool new features every six months or so (TIVO seems to be on this program). 

I can live with no new features for a year, if D* commits to fixing core functionality and implements a rigorous testing regime. They need to get the HR21 where the HR 10-250 TIVO was in stablility before they try to add whistles and bells. 

If somebody thinks this is a bad idea, sound off!

One final note, there must be a new DVR (and remote) in the pipeline. Is there any speculation as to when an HR22? might be rolled out. 12 mo? 18 mo? 24 mo? I intend to run my HD TIVO box until that happens (or the HR21 gets a lot better).

FYI - This is my que to the guy with the "beating the dead horse" icon to post. I love the icon, but still want my TIVO. :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> I returned from a week's vacation to find my blue lights on and this new national release installed.
> 
> Local CBS HD channel had worst audio and video stuttering that I have yet encountered in over a year. Switched to CBS OTA HD channel and problems disappeared.
> 
> ...


Bill, do you have the 20 hooked up to the Bravia by HDMI? That in itself might be a problem. D* recognizes HDMI problems with Sonys. Next time you have those problems, try switching to component cables and see if the problem clears up. I had HDMI problems with two Sony Hi Def sets when I first got my 20s. Had to use component.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Regarding needing _new priorities_, I thought this upgrade addressed your top two.So what do you think?


Fixed every problem I had with my 21.



> Beyond that, don't you think adding DLB might cause stability issues? I think a lot of the problems we saw with software three months ago was because of the implementation of a single live buffer.


Have you read the two DLB threads? I have repeatedly expressed my fear of DLBs and have been told that my fears were totally without merit. And on this thread, people seem to recognize the danger. My 20/21s are stable. D* has done it as far as I'm concerned. All I want is a DVR that records reliably and plays back reliably. That is what I have now and I hope that never changes again. But, you and I both know that the next NR is liable to screw up everything again. I wish there was a way to stop software downloads as there was on the TiVos.



> Slow motion doesn't exist in these DVRs. Aren't you really begging for stability troubles adding it in? They may be basic features but they are still features.


That is exactly correct and well put. Go thru those two DLB threads. Nobody cares about stability. All they want is DLBs at any cost.

Rich


----------



## PearlMikeJam (Sep 25, 2007)

I got the update Tuesday/Wednesday. Today was the first day I tried to record one show and watch another. As soon as I changed to the other tuner to watch something I was not recording, I got the searching for satellite message on tuner 1. For the last release, I had to go through the satellite set up again, so I did that. It worked fine for a couple of hours and then I lost tuner 1 when I got a little rain fade (was told this would not happen with the new HD dish, but that is another issue). I had to go through the satellite set up again and reset/reboot to get both tuners back. Has anyone else had this problem? I am a little concerned I had to reboot twice in three hours.


----------



## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Have you read the two DLB threads?


No. I decided long ago that, for me, DLB would be nice but not necessary. I've stayed well away from the DLB psychodrama.

Rich, I agree with your basic thinking. I can't count the number times, in an attempt to make something better, I made it much worse. And isn't that the basic complaint of many? That, in adding features to the DVR, DirecTV has accidently sacrificed reliability. I guess I just don't see the overwhelming need to add DLB. At this point in the product's development, it sounds way too risky to me. Maybe in a year or two.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Bill, do you have the 20 hooked up to the Bravia by HDMI? That in itself might be a problem. D* recognizes HDMI problems with Sonys. Next time you have those problems, try switching to component cables and see if the problem clears up. I had HDMI problems with two Sony Hi Def sets when I first got my 20s. Had to use component.
> 
> Rich


Yes, it's an HDMI connecction. It's worked fine since I bought the Bravia in January of this year. The picture/audio glitches occurred on just one HD local channel and only once, the first time I turned on the receiver after getting the new national release. Switching from one HDMI cable to multiple component cables is a major operation and apparently not necessary.

Whatever the problem was, it has not occurred again. 

Thanks for the suggestion, though.


----------



## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

I think that they should stick to releasing new (probably buggy) features to the CE's. That way those of us who just want a solid reliable DVR that records what its supposed to when its supposed to and plays it back properly can have it without being forced to beta test new (probably buggy) features. And for those that want to live on the edge, they can download the CE. Similar to what they do now but being a little more hesitant to put new features into NRs. I think DTV is a little too aggressive in adding things via NRs.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> No. I decided long ago that, for me, DLB would be nice but not necessary. I've stayed well away from the DLB psychodrama.


They are interesting threads. And there's not many interesting threads at the moment. The way Stuart Sweet worded the title of the thread, 
"What are you thoughts on DLBs", opened the door for all kinds of "thoughts" and many deliberately provoking posts.



> Rich, I agree with your basic thinking. I can't count the number times, in an attempt to make something better, I made it much worse.


That's been my experience too.



> And isn't that the basic complaint of many? That, in adding features to the DVR, DirecTV has accidently sacrificed reliability. I guess I just don't see the overwhelming need to add DLB. At this point in the product's development, it sounds way too risky to me. Maybe in a year or two.


I couldn't agree with you more, Carl. I have been assured by many "experts" that DLBs would not adversely affect the 20/21s, and I don't believe that for a minute. Stability should be D*'s main concern not "bells and whistles" to satisfy a minor segment of 20/21 users. If 235 is as good as it gets, I'm all for keeping it.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

billsharpe said:


> Yes, it's an HDMI connecction. It's worked fine since I bought the Bravia in January of this year. The picture/audio glitches occurred on just one HD local channel and only once, the first time I turned on the receiver after getting the new national release. Switching from one HDMI cable to multiple component cables is a major operation and apparently not necessary.
> 
> Whatever the problem was, it has not occurred again.


If a problem should occur, it would be interesting to know if switching to component would solve the problem. Like a 771 problem or something constant.



> Thanks for the suggestion, though.


You're welcome,
Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

captainjrl said:


> I think that they should stick to releasing new (probably buggy) features to the CE's. That way those of us who just want a solid reliable DVR that records what its supposed to when its supposed to and plays it back properly can have it without being forced to beta test new (probably buggy) features. And for those that want to live on the edge, they can download the CE. Similar to what they do now but being a little more hesitant to put new features into NRs. I think DTV is a little too aggressive in adding things via NRs.


Your post is right on the button. I know some people enjoy Beta testing, but it seems too risky to do on a platform that is used every day and needs to be dependable. I know a Mac Beta tester and if Mac didn't give him the equipment, he would be bankrupt. His office looks like a Mac graveyard.

I've had my 20s almost two years now and when it dawned on me that D* was using it's customers to Beta test on their own 20s, I was stunned. Can you imagine a car company doing something like this?

Rich


----------



## Don Moe (May 22, 2005)

Note: This comment was posted under the thread "HR20-700: 0x0235 - Issues Only" as item #29, but this appears to be the correct thread to report the problem. 

After this new update, I started noticing problems of severe pixelating in all recordings made from SD channels, such as the Comedy Channel 249. In further testing, the problem occurs even in the live buffer. The pixelating seems to be negligible when watching SD channels live.

Thankfully, recordings and the live buffer of the HD channels generally do not show any problems with pixelating, although I have occasionally seen the problem there too. 

Can anyone else confirm this problem with their HR20-700 or other HR2x units?

Don

-------
Update on 7/11/2008:

After seeing that nobody else has reported similar problems after that update, I came to the conclusion that perhaps my HR20 needed a power-down restart. After doing that, the pixelation problem went away and the recordings now play back correctly.

Don


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It's ok to voice your frustrations a little bit, but remember that DIRECTV employees to read these threads and they respond better to constructive criticism, just as we all do.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Stuart:

I don't think anyone is directing their frustration/criticism at the rank and file programmers at D*, who I am sure are each doing the best they can each day under some pretty difficult circumstances.

I do think there is a real benefit to passing on to higher level "decision makers" at D* the unhappiness that a portion of the user base appears to have with the state of the HR2x software. If some users are really unhappy, that information needs to be registered somewhere where it is heard. Those kind of frank comments reflect what those people are likely to tell friends and family when asked "You know all about this HD/DVRstuff, should I sign up for DirecTV?" 

I assumed that because the other threads were labeled "issues only" that the general "discussion" thread was an appropriate place to vent, complain, commiserate, etc. Perhaps others did as well. I also think having the "discussion" thread is good, if only to encourage less complaining within the "issue only" bug report threads.


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

My wife actually said last night that DirecTV was now no better than Dish network. When we were with Dish we had a Dishplayer 7200 from teh beginning, through all the problems. If that is not a stinging criticism, I don't know what is.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

I just read thru the last two pages and I don't understand Stuart's comment. To whom is the comment directed? (Did I use "whom" correctly? That always confuses me.)



Nicholsen said:


> Stuart:
> 
> I don't think anyone is directing their frustration/criticism at the rank and file programmers at D*, who I am sure are each doing the best they can each day under some pretty difficult circumstances.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Lee L said:


> My wife actually said last night that DirecTV was now no better than Dish network. When we were with Dish we had a Dishplayer 7200 from teh beginning, through all the problems. If that is not a stinging criticism, I don't know what is.


Is the 7200 a DVR? Never had Dish. No Yes channel.

Rich


----------



## Tom_S (Apr 9, 2002)

It was a DVR mashup with a Microsoft Ultimate TV Beta front-end and a dish receiver in the same box. The interface was the best of all the DVR's I have ever used. It was, however, a complete POS. If you think the HR-2x is bad... sheesh you aint seen nothin!


----------



## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

My HR21 decided it wanted a fresh start and on a reboot completely erased all of my recordings and Series Links. This software release for me is for sure the worst ever, on any computer platform period!

PS - It did keep all of the Caller ID info </sarcasm>


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I just read thru the last two pages and I don't understand Stuart's comment. To whom is the comment directed? (Did I use "whom" correctly? That always confuses me.)


I also did not think the comments in this thread were out of line, but wanted Stuart leave the thread open to "negative posts" as well as positive posts. It's never fun seeing users complain about your code. However, I think if you are on the HR2x bug fix team, having pretty thick skin is probably a requirement for the job.

If users feel the software development/upgrade program for the HR2x is being poorly run, the only constructive way to deal with that is to speak up and ask for changes.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> I also did not think the comments in this thread were out of line, but wanted Stuart leave the thread open to "negative posts" as well as positive posts. It's never fun seeing users complain about your code. However, I think if you are on the HR2x bug fix team, having pretty thick skin is probably a requirement for the job.
> 
> If users feel the software development/upgrade program for the HR2x is being poorly run, the only constructive way to deal with that is to speak up and ask for changes.


I think you need both positive and negative posts in order to determine what is going on. Naturally, I thought one of my posts was the basis for his post, but after reading the last two pages, I have no idea what or who he was referring to.

After what D* has done to us over the past two years anyone who works for them should have no problem with negative posts, although some of them are really off the wall. Some of the posts are just plain nasty. Where else can a person who doesn't understand what is going on vent? To a CSR? That's like talking to a wall.

And the problems are clearly caused by the NRs. The Case Management folks rewired my house, put a new Slimline dish up and nothing helped until 230 and 235 came along.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

captainjrl said:


> My HR21 decided it wanted a fresh start and on a reboot completely erased all of my recordings and Series Links. This software release for me is for sure the worst ever, on any computer platform period!
> 
> PS - It did keep all of the Caller ID info </sarcasm>


What kind of 21 is that? Perhaps a 100?

Rich


----------



## joannel (Sep 18, 2007)

I have had problems since the new update 0x235. I have an HR20-100 and every few days everything freezes up and I have to reset. Today, for example, I was watching a baseball game and I tried to pause it and go to my prerecorded material so I could watch the game without commercials later on and my remote would not respond to the pause command. I was able to finally get to my prerecording TV show Jeopardy and it looked like it was recording and when I hit play, all it did was ask if I wanted to delete. After I rebooted, everything was fine again. This kind of wacky stuff happens too frequently since the latest update.


----------



## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

rich584 said:


> What kind of 21 is that? Perhaps a 100?
> 
> Rich


Nope a HR21-700


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

captainjrl said:


> Nope a HR21-700


Huh. Well, the 21s are not as stable as the 20s, so nothing should surprise us. Are you using an eSATA?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

joannel said:


> I have had problems since the new update 0x235. I have an HR20-100 and every few days everything freezes up and I have to reset. Today, for example, I was watching a baseball game and I tried to pause it and go to my prerecorded material so I could watch the game without commercials later on and my remote would not respond to the pause command. I was able to finally get to my prerecording TV show Jeopardy and it looked like it was recording and when I hit play, all it did was ask if I wanted to delete. After I rebooted, everything was fine again. This kind of wacky stuff happens too frequently since the latest update.


This is just an opinion based on my experiences with 20-100s. I wouldn't have one. The 20-700s are a much better unit. Again, just an opinion based on having about 15 20-100s that did not work properly. Of course, I have had a lot more 20-700s that didn't work properly, but the five I have now are really stable.

Have you considered getting a "replacement"? You might get a 700 or a 21. 235 is running really well on my six 20/21s.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom_S said:


> It was a DVR mashup with a Microsoft Ultimate TV Beta front-end and a dish receiver in the same box. The interface was the best of all the DVR's I have ever used. It was, however, a complete POS. If you think the HR-2x is bad... sheesh you aint seen nothin!


Did you ever have an Ultimate TV DVR?

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

I've had my hr21-100 for two weeks now and coming from a Tivo based DVR, I thought I would not enjoy this new interface.

It's not the best interface but I have yet to run into any of the problems I've been reading about. I have the current CE installed, no lock up, no mis-recorded programs, DOD works fine, etc etc. The only thing I am concerned about is the sensitivity of this DVR when it comes to Electrical Storms. It has twice rebooted during thunderstorms. My old R10 Tivo box never had this problem. I would consider getting a more robust UPS though.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> I've had my hr21-100 for two weeks now and coming from a Tivo based DVR, I thought I would not enjoy this new interface.
> 
> It's not the best interface but I have yet to run into any of the problems I've been reading about. I have the current CE installed, no lock up, no mis-recorded programs, DOD works fine, etc etc. The only thing I am concerned about is the sensitivity of this DVR when it comes to Electrical Storms. It has twice rebooted during thunderstorms. My old R10 Tivo box never had this problem. I would consider getting a more robust UPS though.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


Hmmm. Wonder if the 21-100s will prove to be the worst of the 21 bunch just as the 20-100 is a poorer DVR than the 20-700.

Just my thought.

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Hmmm. Wonder if the 21-100s will prove to be the worst of the 21 bunch just as the 20-100 is a poorer DVR than the 20-700.
> 
> Just my thought.
> 
> Rich


Honestly I don't consider the box to be a bad one, but then again I have no experience with the HR20 either. Other than the sensitive power issue, this box has been great with my set up.


----------



## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

From the other side. My HR20-100 has had no problems since it was installed last October. I have no experience with any other model. But, it is connected to a UPS.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> Honestly I don't consider the box to be a bad one, but then again I have no experience with the HR20 either. Other than the sensitive power issue, this box has been great with my set up.


I don't want to bore people with my 100 stories. Told them too many times. Mine were all replacement units. I never had a new one right out of the box. I think I had about 15 100s and none of them worked correctly and none would work with an eSATA. I can't say anything good about them because I've never had a good set. I know a lot of people have 20-100s are happy with them.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jdspencer said:


> From the other side. My HR20-100 has had no problems since it was installed last October. I have no experience with any other model. But, it is connected to a UPS.


Why the UPS? (Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just curious.)

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

Mine came from an Ebay dealer. Brand new, every piece that came with it was in its original packaging including the card. I was nervous because I saved a nice chunk of change for the box but it's been working great since it's been activated. Only one issue besides the shut offs, and this was due to human error.

I'm in the IT field so I've been through the dealings of refurbished hardware, especially with parts under warranty and you'd expect something clean and new.


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Why the UPS? (Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just curious.)
> 
> Rich


The DVR is infact a Computer with a Hard Drive. Constant power fluctuations of the drive, including temperature changes will eventually damage it. It's better to have it on a UPS and give it time to shut down properly, as opposed to having it shut down as if it was unplugged from the back.


----------



## captainjrl (Jun 26, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Huh. Well, the 21s are not as stable as the 20s, so nothing should surprise us. Are you using an eSATA?
> 
> Rich


Yes, a Seagate 750gb in an Antec MX1


----------



## Ashtonian (Jan 31, 2007)

Our only problem was black recordings of Hells Kitchen on Fox 6/24 and 6/10 .
Having had a D*Tivo for the last 5 years, D* needs to understand how, for us, it's just not acceptable in anyway shape or form to miss any recordings at all.
There are no other issues for us.


----------



## n-spring (Mar 6, 2007)

Is it just me, or have others noticed PQ degradation, more blocking, and more pixelation since the 0x235 rollout?

I first noticed the PQ problem with Jay Leno on my local NBC channel (looks like compression artifacts). Also, picture freeze/breakup and audio freak outs (bzzzzzTTT!!) during So You Think You Can Dance last night nearly drove me insane.


----------



## JRD57 (May 17, 2008)

elshagon said:


> all I get so far after the firmware update is "searching for satellite 2" message on all my channels. I tested the sigal strength and it was fine.


Gents:

I had (2) new HR21-100's installed last Thursday- One took the update fine, the other keeps "searching for satellite 2". Installer confirmed Signal strength was not an issue. I got frustrated enough to do a CE update (1st time ever) and that had no affect. Is this unit doomed to a life of searching to fine itself, or will it eventually find it's way?

Thanks.

JD


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> The DVR is infact a Computer with a Hard Drive.


That, I understand completely. I've been aware of that since I got my first DVR and took it apart. Been using computers and digital equipment since 1962.



> Constant power fluctuations of the drive, including temperature changes will eventually damage it. It's better to have it on a UPS and give it time to shut down properly, as opposed to having it shut down as if it was unplugged from the back.


The only time the 20/21s shut down is if you have a power failure or pull the plug. I live in an area that rarely has power failures. Can't remember the last time. And a power failure is the same as pulling the plug, which is the recommended (by the departed Master) method for rebooting.

Don't see what power fluctuations of the hard drive would have to do with the UPS. All the UPS does, basically, is supply an uninterruptible (as long as the batteries hold out) voltage supply to the unit. We (the electrical team at the place that I worked) always got annoyed at the P in the acronym. Always thought it should be a V. We used huge UPS devices for processes that couldn't be shut down suddenly and in our huge computer complexes.

When everyone started getting PCs on their desks and wanted personal UPSs and surge protectors they started buying them on the corporation's nickel. Started to add up to quite a large sum and caused a study to take place that determined that an individual UPS for each computer and a surge protector for each computer was a waste of money. Never saw anything that contradicted that study. I've never had a hard drive go on a computer. I've had a lot of HDs go south on TiVos and UTV DVRs, but the only problem I've had with HDs on the 20/21s is noise.

Not trying to start a nasty argument with you, just curious. I've never quite understood the whole UPS thing on the level we're talking about. We determined a Sola (I know that's a brand name) transformer was more appropriate for PCs than a UPS unit because it does supply a constant voltage level out as long as the primary feed ranges between 95 and 130VAC. Of course the constant voltage transformers don't protect against outages, they have to be fed to work. The only purpose I can see for the UPS device is to ensure recordings will continue.

I'm not an IT person, but I do have an understanding of the Theory of Electricity and look forward to your response to this post.

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> That, I understand completely. I've been aware of that since I got my first DVR and took it apart. Been using computers and digital equipment since 1962.
> 
> The only time the 20/21s shut down is if you have a power failure or pull the plug. I live in an area that rarely has power failures. Can't remember the last time. And a power failure is the same as pulling the plug, which is the recommended (by the departed Master) method for rebooting.
> 
> ...


I deal with PCs and Servers on a daily basis and it's my job to keep them up and running. Here in South Georgia where we are bombarded by very large thunder and lightening storms, it is a must to keep our most important Computers and Servers on some type of Power Back up. The amount of Computers I've fixed as a side job due to lightening strikes wiping out modems because the phones were not protected, it's to the point where I could start my own business.

I've worked with generations of PCs from Dell in which the batches of Hard Drives were bad, or a trend with Power Supplies causing the drives to fail as well.

With that said, and from what I've noticed with my HR21, I'd rather be safe than sorry and just place it on a UPS and allow time for the DVR to be shut down properly. With the amount of PCs I've had to recover due to weather related issues, I'd rather not deal with the heartache of having a crashed DVR on my hands.


----------



## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

rich584 said:


> And a power failure is the same as pulling the plug, which is the recommended (by the departed Master) method for rebooting.


But you wouldn't do it if you were in the middle of recording or watching something. Besides protecting your equipment, the UPS protects your recording as well. For $50 I figure it's a worthwhile investment to protect $2,000 worth of A/V equipment and possibly save some recordings.


----------



## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

I thought Earl said that pulling the plug was the last resort for rebooting?


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

JRD57 said:


> Gents:
> 
> I had (2) new HR21-100's installed last Thursday- One took the update fine, the other keeps "searching for satellite 2". Installer confirmed Signal strength was not an issue. I got frustrated enough to do a CE update (1st time ever) and that had no affect. Is this unit doomed to a life of searching to fine itself, or will it eventually find it's way?
> 
> ...


Try a "1lnb" dish configuration to see if it goes all the way through. I tried this when I couldn't get my HR21 to read the three LNB configuration prior to my 5LNB dish upgrade and it worked.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> I deal with PCs and Servers on a daily basis and it's my job to keep them up and running. Here in South Georgia where we are bombarded by very large thunder and lightening storms, it is a must to keep our most important Computers and Servers on some type of Power Back up. The amount of Computers I've fixed as a side job due to lightening strikes wiping out modems because the phones were not protected, it's to the point where I could start my own business.]I've worked with generations of PCs from Dell in which the batches of Hard Drives were bad, or a trend with Power Supplies causing the drives to fail as well.


I used to teach computer classes at a college in NJ and we had labs with between 40 and 100 Dell computers. I never used a lab that had more than half the computers running. I talked to the IT guys that worked at night on them and they told me that they rarely had HD problems. What they had was bored students driving the computers insane. But they said they rarely had hardware problems.



> With that said, and from what I've noticed with my HR21, I'd rather be safe than sorry and just place it on a UPS and allow time for the DVR to be shut down properly. With the amount of PCs I've had to recover due to weather related issues, I'd rather not deal with the heartache of having a crashed DVR on my hands.


Yeah, I've talked to people in Florida that have terrible thunder storms. I didn't mean that a UPS for a PC in certain conditions wasn't a good thing. I live in the Raritan Valley in New Jersey and our weather is, for the most part, boring. My main worry is flooding. I live a block away from the Raritan River.

If I lived in an area like Southern Georgia or Florida, I would use many UPS devices. Here, we don't even get a breeze at night. And we'll be deep into a drought by next month.

The plant I used to work in is about a mile up the river and we had the huge UPS devices powered by banks of batteries in the early 70s in the computer rooms and we also had banks of batteries that functioned as a basic UPS that would keep a whole factory complex running until our emergency generators kicked on. That system was around in the fifties.

Do you have a "ground block" on your sat system?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Lee L said:


> I thought Earl said that pulling the plug was the last resort for rebooting?


Last post I recall is Earl saying that the best way to do it was to pull the plug. I've done that since I read the post. Makes sense to me. Never had much luck with the RBR or the "Menu" restart. Usually ended up pulling the plug. And using the "Format" option is worthless and you lose your recordings.

I could be wrong, I could have misread that post. That's happened before. But I will continue to use the "hard reboot". Pull the plug, walk away for a minute or so and plug it in and you have really reset the DVR.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> Try a "1lnb" dish configuration to see if it goes all the way through. I tried this when I couldn't get my HR21 to read the three LNB configuration prior to my 5LNB dish upgrade and it worked.


So, you used the 1lnb dish option and it thought it was a 3lnb? Or did you have to go thru the 1lnb setup and then reset it to 3lnb? I wonder if this would work on a 5lnb system?

What made you do that? How could you know? Just a WAG? Surely nobody at D* told you to do that, did they?

Rich


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

I have found both of my DVR's (TIVO HR10-250 and HR21)are more reliable when run with a small, inexpensive UPS (under $50 to run both on one UPS). I found that the DVRs were much more sensitive to momentary drops and dips in power than my computer.

I have had far fewer reboots on both units since I went to the UPS, and think it is a must have for the DVR.

Just a thought ------ My UPS is smaller than the power brick for my XBox. Maybe D* should consider including a small UPS with the install on the HR2x machines. Bought in bulk, they would be very cheap

I don't think pulling the plug is ever great for high tech gear on any kind. While I have only scanned the threads on that issue, it seems like a remedy of last resort. I think these units should have a power down menu option, as well as an on/off switch that will trigger the no kidding "hard"reboot. If they have this, I am yet to find it. To me it appears the RBR is some where between the two.


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> So, you used the 1lnb dish option and it thought it was a 3lnb? Or did you have to go thru the 1lnb setup and then reset it to 3lnb? I wonder if this would work on a 5lnb system?
> 
> What made you do that? How could you know? Just a WAG? Surely nobody at D* told you to do that, did they?
> 
> Rich


My problem was that I had the "72.5" dish option enabled and the DVR would stop at 25% during an update each time I would attempt to set it up. When I set it to "Not Installed", it was able to go through the 3lnb configuration without a hitch. I troubleshoot networks and computers for a living, so I knew something had to be fishy.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> I have found both of my DVR's (TIVO HR10-250 and HR21)are more reliable when run with a small, inexpensive UPS (under $50 to run both on one UPS). I found that the DVRs were much more sensitive to momentary drops and dips in power than my computer.


This makes me wonder if the Northeast part of the national grid is much more reliable than in other parts of the country. So far we've heard from Florida (lightning), South Georgia (lightning again) and now the San Francisco area.

I know this, where I live in New Jersey we rarely experience random fluctuations in voltage. Sometimes a car will hit a pole and the result of that is understandable. The last time that happened was about 8 years ago and we were down for 6 hours. But random fluctuations in voltage I don't see and I have a voltmeter hard wired into the system in my hidey hole. If you're talking about 1,2 or 3 volts as a fluctuation, I can't believe that will make a difference in the operation of the 20/21s.



> I have had far fewer reboots on both units since I went to the UPS, and think it is a must have for the DVR.


I think it is a waste of money and I know that surge protectors are a waste of money. You want a solid electrical system, install a GFCI, then install a constant voltage transformer downstream of the GFCI. Sola makes dandy constant voltage transformers, but they are not cheap.



> Just a thought ------ My UPS is smaller than the power brick for my XBox. Maybe D* should consider including a small UPS with the install on the HR2x machines.


You think D* might have done their homework and come to the conclusion that a UPS isn't essential to the operation of the 20/21s?



> I don't think pulling the plug is ever great for high tech gear on any kind. While I have only scanned the threads on that issue, it seems like a remedy of last resort. I think these units should have a power down menu option, as well as an on/off switch that will trigger the no kidding "hard"reboot. If they have this, I am yet to find it. To me it appears the RBR is some where between the two.


There is no way to cut off the voltage supply without pulling the plug. When you do an RBR the unit still has voltage supplied and when you restart from the menu you don't cut off the voltage. It's common practice to pull the plug on electronic devices that are having problems. Been doing it for many years and have had no adverse reactions. How else can you effectively reset equipment?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> My problem was that I had the "72.5" dish option enabled and the DVR would stop at 25% during an update each time I would attempt to set it up. When I set it to "Not Installed", it was able to go through the 3lnb configuration without a hitch. I troubleshoot networks and computers for a living, so I knew something had to be fishy.


Still an impressive piece of troubleshooting. I know there were posts a while ago that suggested that the way to get rid of the 771 issues was to got thru the sat setup all over again. That had no effect on my problems. Still no comments on whether this would work on a 5lnb dish. Makes you wonder.

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Still an impressive piece of troubleshooting. I know there were posts a while ago that suggested that the way to get rid of the 771 issues was to got thru the sat setup all over again. That had no effect on my problems. Still no comments on whether this would work on a 5lnb dish. Makes you wonder.
> 
> Rich


The coordinance numbers for the dish alignment on my 5 LNB were different from what I had with my 3lnb. I can't recall if I tried doing that after the new dish was installed. I know I will either have to do some tweaking or have a service rep come and work on my dish because my 99 and 103 are showing low numbers. After reading how the alignment measurements are much more precise with the 5lnb compared to a 3lnb, I'd rather have it done properly.


----------



## Nicholsen (Aug 18, 2007)

Regarding power fluctuations, I live in an apartment in San Francisco built in the early 70's. It has modern wiring, and I have no other problems with the AC power.

I get occasional dips that dim the lights slightly for just a second. This seems to be coming from the grid. The voltage also appears to dip momentarily when the refrigerator kicks in. 

I will note that these are not big dips and my computer rides right though the dips, but not the DVRs. Perhaps the PC has a more robust power supply?

I don't think everyone needs a UPS. But if you are having reboots, it is definitely worth a try. It also covers those occasional short blackouts.

As to D* logic in not providing or recommending a UPS, I have my own theory. D*s business decisions regarding the HR21, BBC dongles, independent installers, etc. sometimes remind me of that famous oxymoron, "military intelligence."


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> The coordinance numbers for the dish alignment on my 5 LNB were different from what I had with my 3lnb. I can't recall if I tried doing that after the new dish was installed. I know I will either have to do some tweaking or have a service rep come and work on my dish because my 99 and 103 are showing low numbers. After reading how the alignment measurements are much more precise with the 5lnb compared to a 3lnb, I'd rather have it done properly.


I don't think 99 is used for any HD, which is all I watch and you should be looking at 101 and 103c for you SS. The only readings that concern me are on 101 and 103c.

I've aligned dual lnb dishes and 3lnb dishes and I wouldn't even try a 5lnb. I've had mine realigned a couple times and each time the difference was notable. And I think that was due to the installers who did the alignments. The last guy seemed like he knew what he was doing. And they've got those neat digital meters to check signal strength. I watch them every time they do something and the last guy didn't do much. But it made a difference.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Nicholsen said:


> Regarding power fluctuations, I live in an apartment in San Francisco built in the early 70's. It has modern wiring, and I have no other problems with the AC power.
> 
> I get occasional dips that dim the lights slightly for just a second. This seems to be coming from the grid. The voltage also appears to dip momentarily when the refrigerator kicks in.


That sounds like poor wiring in your apartment complex. Refrigerators are supposed to be on a "dedicated" circuit, which means that the refrigerator is the only thing on the circuit. My house was built in the middle 60s and has the same problems. I have changed most of the circuits, but the downstairs if finished and it is difficult to run new wiring.



> I will note that these are not big dips and my computer rides right though the dips, but not the DVRs. Perhaps the PC has a more robust power supply?


Mine don't have that problem at all. The dips are caused by too many devices on the circuitry and apartments are notorious for poor wiring practices. Move to a newer house and you will probably not see those problems.



> I don't think everyone needs a UPS. But if you are having reboots, it is definitely worth a try. It also covers those occasional short blackouts.


Don't get me wrong, there is a place for them (witness the lightning problems in Florida and Georgia). But for most people in relatively calm weather locations they are a waste of money.



> As to D* logic in not providing or recommending a UPS, I have my own theory. D*s business decisions regarding the HR21, BBC dongles, independent installers, etc. sometimes remind me of that famous oxymoron, "military intelligence."


You gotta cut them some slack. This is a relatively new technology and HD DVRs are definitely a new technology. The 20/21s aren't even two years old, they are literally babies. And look how far they've come in that brief period.

Rich


----------



## dsm (Jul 11, 2004)

We're off track here, but there is more reason to have a UPS than bad weather in the area. If you live where I do, the electrical infrastructure between my house and the electrical provider is poor and we have frequent brownouts. At least every third day I see one and I'm not even home during the day. No amount of complaining to the crappy provider helps because they have a monopoly and I have no hand .

Brownouts do stress various electrical components and there is variability in how tolerant a product design is to dealing with them. My Bosch dishwasher for example is totally intolerant. I have to redo a blown solder joint in there every 6 to 8 weeks (The same one each time. I should trace the board and add a resistor somewhere on there I guess to protect it from overloading).

I've got two HR20's. One is on a UPS and one is not. The one that isn't got into a bad state once after a power outage where I had trouble getting it to restart, but after an overnight rest it did come back. The other one is more important to me and I don't want to lose the recordings so it's on a UPS with voltage regulation.

steve


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

In Boston? The service is that bad? Brownouts every third day? For those who don't know, "brownouts" are caused by low voltage usually caused by the power company dropping the voltage level for some reason or during extreme periods of electrical demand. Happens when voltage drops lower than 100 volts.

I've never heard of brownouts happening that often. You need a generator with a voltage switch that will kick on automatically when the voltage drops to a set point.

Where in the Boston area do you live. Not in the city, surely?

Rich



dsm said:


> We're off track here, but there is more reason to have a UPS than bad weather in the area. If you live where I do, the electrical infrastructure between my house and the electrical provider is poor and we have frequent brownouts. At least every third day I see one and I'm not even home during the day. No amount of complaining to the crappy provider helps because they have a monopoly and I have no hand .
> 
> Brownouts do stress various electrical components and there is variability in how tolerant a product design is to dealing with them. My Bosch dishwasher for example is totally intolerant. I have to redo a blown solder joint in there every 6 to 8 weeks (The same one each time. I should trace the board and add a resistor somewhere on there I guess to protect it from overloading).
> 
> ...


----------



## danor (Aug 22, 2007)

dduitsman said:


> runner,
> 
> I've just reviewed all of your posts - and I don't see where you identify what problems you're having. I do sense your frustration though.
> 
> ...


I agree with runner,
I've had something like 6 to 7 different units since they were released (all either 20-100's or 20-700's) and they have all been sporadic in their performance.
I'm actually so frustrated and sick and tired of all the wasted time spent dealing with these units that I've almost just given up. I think it's unconscionable on *D's part.
Sure it's cool tech. So are computers. That's no excuse not to stabilize the units and software for the customer base before experimenting with the latest and greatest concepts.

I just swapped out my last 20-100 that I've had for 10 months or so. Worked reasonably well until a few weeks ago then it became a constant game of freeze frames, non-user re-boots etc. Went thru all the usual trouble shooting to no avail.
Just installed another 20-100 yesterday, downloaded the latest software - 0235 I believe - and within an hour it was freezing up repeatedly. Since then it's re-booted by itself twice.
I am really, really tired of this endless waste of time...


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

danor said:


> I agree with runner,
> I've had something like 6 to 7 different units since they were released (all either 20-100's or 20-700's) and they have all been sporadic in their performance.
> I'm actually so frustrated and sick and tired of all the wasted time spent dealing with these units that I've almost just given up. I think it's unconscionable on *D's part.
> Sure it's cool tech. So are computers. That's no excuse not to stabilize the units and software for the customer base before experimenting with the latest and greatest concepts.
> ...


One thing you can do is insist on a different model. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't have a 20-100 in my home (or a 21-100). The word "junk" comes to mind. I do have 5 stable 20-700s, but I had to go thru about 40 units to get those five. And I only had to go thru two 21s to get a stable unit.

Have you had you dish realigned? Do you have multi-switches? Is your cabling the correct size?

Rich


----------



## danor (Aug 22, 2007)

rich584 said:


> One thing you can do is insist on a different model. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't have a 20-100 in my home (or a 21-100). The word "junk" comes to mind. I do have 5 stable 20-700s, but I had to go thru about 40 units to get those five. And I only had to go thru two 21s to get a stable unit.
> 
> Have you had you dish realigned? Do you have multi-switches? Is your cabling the correct size?
> 
> Rich


Thanks rich -
I've got solid #'s across the board on my dish, no multi switches and cabling is new and correct

Since my last post this morning it's frozen twice forcing me to reset both times.
I've spoken with *D 3 x in the last week. They insist they can do nothing except schedule a tech to come out. It's bull! Not only is everything set up fine every tech that's come out here in the past couple of years has been inept to a large degree.
The other day when I insisted that they replace the unit the tech support person refused. When I asked for a level 2 super he said the usual "they're going to tell you the same thing I am". When I insisted he said ok and put me on hold - after 15 min I realized he simply dead manned me so I hung up and have been trying to get it to work properly since.
No joy and I am so exhausted with all of this. And I'm so disappointed with the shtty service and lack of quality with these units.........Oh yea, I guess I've said that before..................

_So what could be the cause of it continuing to freeze up?_


----------



## aldiesel (Oct 27, 2006)

I posted on the -100 thread so this could be considered a duplicate post BUT I have the same issue except on tuner 2. A restart fixes for a couple of minutes to a couple of hours and then I lose tuner 2 on the 110 satellite. I moved cable and BBC around and tuner 1 is always ok but tuner 2 is not. I have re-run satellite setup and I do not have a multiswitch. I have 2 -100's and no matter how I place the cable or the BBCs tuner 2 on the one box alwasy cannot tune to 110 satellite but all other tuners are fine.



PearlMikeJam said:


> I got the update Tuesday/Wednesday. Today was the first day I tried to record one show and watch another. As soon as I changed to the other tuner to watch something I was not recording, I got the searching for satellite message on tuner 1. For the last release, I had to go through the satellite set up again, so I did that. It worked fine for a couple of hours and then I lost tuner 1 when I got a little rain fade (was told this would not happen with the new HD dish, but that is another issue). I had to go through the satellite set up again and reset/reboot to get both tuners back. Has anyone else had this problem? I am a little concerned I had to reboot twice in three hours.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

aldiesel said:


> I posted on the -100 thread so this could be considered a duplicate post BUT I have the same issue except on tuner 2. A restart fixes for a couple of minutes to a couple of hours and then I lose tuner 2 on the 110 satellite. I moved cable and BBC around and tuner 1 is always ok but tuner 2 is not. I have re-run satellite setup and I do not have a multiswitch. I have 2 -100's and no matter how I place the cable or the BBCs tuner 2 on the one box alwasy cannot tune to 110 satellite but all other tuners are fine.


When you keep doing the same thing over and over and get the same results each time you are fulfilling Albert Einstein's definition of insanity.

You probably don't belong to the Protection Plan and your calls to D* pretty much are useless, right? That six dollars a month that so very many people think is an absolute waste of money would get you quickly out of this mess. But, like so many others who refuse to "waste" any more money on D*, you're pretty much stuck, right? Want to find out how to rectify this situation, PM me and I will explain how to do it.

ONE MORE TIME: This is my opinion and only my opinion, but I think the 100s are junk. Nothing anyone can say will sway me from this opinion, which is based on empirical data. I know that some people have 100s that work properly and I don't care. They are JUNK! I have seven 20/21s that are all 700s and are all stable and function as they should.

I can and will help you. PM me.

Rich


----------



## cineplex1 (Jul 11, 2007)

I have two remotes both in IR mode. The response time is 3-6 seconds for most commands and is frustrating. e.g push the LIST button for Playlist and the menu takes 6 seconds to come up. 

I know the unit received the command because the Power LED blinks. This is really frustrating when deleting content. I have wondered whether the command was accepted so I pushed it again only to delete a second show I wanted to keep.

Which leads me to a second muse. Why isn't there an undelete command?

Any fixes yet for slow command responses?


----------



## danor (Aug 22, 2007)

aldiesel said:


> I posted on the -100 thread so this could be considered a duplicate post BUT I have the same issue except on tuner 2. A restart fixes for a couple of minutes to a couple of hours and then I lose tuner 2 on the 110 satellite. I moved cable and BBC around and tuner 1 is always ok but tuner 2 is not. I have re-run satellite setup and I do not have a multiswitch. I have 2 -100's and no matter how I place the cable or the BBCs tuner 2 on the one box alwasy cannot tune to 110 satellite but all other tuners are fine.


I'm in the process of trying to get *D to send me a new recorder.
In the meantime the new hr-100 I just installed last week is doing just as adiesel's is.
I've changed out the BBC's, swapped co-ax connections from sat 1 to sat 2 and back again, reset several times and repeated the sat setup twice. 
I still only can record off sat 1 and I get no error messages.
I have never had this particular problem before.
Have no clue as to what to try next.



rich584 said:


> You probably don't belong to the Protection Plan and your calls to D* pretty much are useless, right? That six dollars a month that so very many people think is an absolute waste of money would get you quickly out of this mess.


Hey rich. Thanks for your prior help. 
But what is the benifit of the protection plan that "would quickly get us out of this mess"?


> I can and will help you. PM me.
> Rich


Me too?
Thanks again Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

danor said:


> I'm in the process of trying to get *D to send me a new recorder.
> In the meantime the new hr-100


Junk, just plain "100" proof Junk. The Yugo of DVRs.



> I just installed last week is doing just as adiesel's is.
> I've changed out the BBC's, swapped co-ax connections from sat 1 to sat 2 and back again, reset several times and repeated the sat setup twice.
> I still only can record off sat 1 and I get no error messages.
> I have never had this particular problem before.
> Have no clue as to what to try next.


I had those same problems before 230 came along and cleared those issues up. 235 is just as good. From what I've read, there is a new NR coming shortly and that "might" clear up your problems. Or not.



> Hey rich. Thanks for your prior help.
> But what is the benifit of the protection plan that "would quickly get us out of this mess"?
> Me too?
> Thanks again Rich


I think the people who man the phones for the PP are more knowledgeable and more inclined to appreciate your knowledge of the 20/21s. You get better help and if they can't solve the problem, you get a replacement in, at most, 3 days. I usually call up on, say, a Tuesday, and get the replacement the next day. Sent via FedEx and they work on Saturdays. Get a replacement from any other department at D* and it takes three weeks. Service calls are free and all the equipment is covered. So if a multi-goes South, you get a replacement. I've saved well over a thousand dollars since I got my first HR20 in service calls and shipping fees. WAY over a thousand dollars.

I think the Protection Plan is well worth the six dollar a month fee. I never get an argument from a CSR. When I call and want a replacement, it is only because a DVR is malfunctioning so badly that I can't do anything with it. I've never had to put up with the "let's reboot it, that will fix it!" comments. I just tell them what I've done and the next day I have a replacement.

If you've read enough about the 20/21s, you know by now that they tend to crash badly. This doesn't really happen that frequently, but without complaints the forum wouldn't exist, and after awhile you begin to expect problems. I don't think there are as many really bad problems as reading the posts on this forum would lead you to believe. (An observation, not sarcasm.)

Anyhow, to be without the Protection Plan is not for me. And I think the great majority of the members on this forum can certainly afford six bucks a month for peace of mind.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

cineplex1 said:


> I have two remotes both in IR mode. The response time is 3-6 seconds for most commands and is frustrating. e.g push the LIST button for Playlist and the menu takes 6 seconds to come up.
> 
> I know the unit received the command because the Power LED blinks. This is really frustrating when deleting content. I have wondered whether the command was accepted so I pushed it again only to delete a second show I wanted to keep.
> 
> ...


Two questions: What model of DVR is it? HR20/21xxx?

Have you tried putting the remote in RF mode?

I'm assuming you have fresh batteries in the mote. The symptoms you listed sound very much like the symptoms I experienced a while ago in my hidey hole. All of a sudden, slow responses, etc. Using my advanced intelligence and vast troubleshooting skills, I rebooted.

OK, that was just Plan A. Now for Plan B, using my advanced intelligence and vast troubleshooting skills, I decided the RF receiver on the DVR was bad.

Genius, sheer genius.

Sat back and admired my advanced intelligence and vast troubleshooting skills while tossing my mote from hand to hand. The mote dropped on the floor, bounced and the battery door fell open just a tad. For some reason, I opened it up all the way and there were the crappy batteries the DVRs come with. Changed to fresh Duracells and the mote was back to normal.

Very humbling experience.

Rich


----------



## danor (Aug 22, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I had those same problems before 230 came along and cleared those issues up. 235 is just as good.


 I have 235 and the problem I descibe above started only upon that software version being downloaded.
So then why the problem if you say both 230 & 235 seem to have solved it?


> I think the people who man the phones for the PP are more knowledgeable and more inclined to appreciate your knowledge of the 20/21s. You get better help and if they can't solve the problem, you get a replacement in, at most, 3 days.
> 
> I think the Protection Plan is well worth the six dollar a month fee. I never get an argument from a CSR. When I call and want a replacement, it is only because a DVR is malfunctioning so badly that I can't do anything with it. I've never had to put up with the "let's reboot it, that will fix it!" comments. I just tell them what I've done and the next day I have a replacement.


Thanks.
Seems good advice.



> If you've read enough about the 20/21s, you know by now that they tend to crash badly.


So if you had to choose between all the current models available which one would you want the most?


> Anyhow, to be without the Protection Plan is not for me. And I think the great majority of the members on this forum can certainly afford six bucks a month for peace of mind.


Agreed


----------



## joannel (Sep 18, 2007)

cineplex1 said:


> I have two remotes both in IR mode. The response time is 3-6 seconds for most commands and is frustrating. e.g push the LIST button for Playlist and the menu takes 6 seconds to come up.
> 
> I know the unit received the command because the Power LED blinks. This is really frustrating when deleting content. I have wondered whether the command was accepted so I pushed it again only to delete a second show I wanted to keep.
> 
> ...


I have had the same problem with very slow response times with my remote within the last few days. The problem occurs with both the Universal remote URC - R6 and the Directv RC64R remote that came with my HR20-100. It takes 6 or 7 seconds to actually see the guide after pushing the button. The fast forward, rewind buttons are much more responsive.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

danor said:


> I have 235 and the problem I descibe above started only upon that software version being downloaded.
> So then why the problem if you say both 230 & 235 seem to have solved it?
> Thanks.


That is a question that has never been satisfactorily answered. I think it is due to a QC problem. Obviously the NRs affect each 20/21 differently. My 21 could not handle the two NRs before 230 and worked fine before the two NRs before 230. Nothing changed except the software. My only thought is that some models work better with some NRs and others have problems with some NRs. And to me, that reflects a QC problem. Again, I don't think that we should form broad opinions based on what we read on this forum. Most posts are complaints. Some people do post to disagree with me about the 100s, but that's not going to change my mind.

I'd be willing to bet that most HRxx-xxxs work fine out of the box.



> So if you had to choose between all the current models available which one would you want the most?


My first choice would be the HR20-700 and my second choice would be the 21-700. I've never had a 21-200, which is made by Samsung. I have had TiVos that were made by Samsung and they were the worst TiVos I ever owned. Got them as replacements for damaged TiVos. I've tried several HD TV sets made by Samsung and they are not as good as the Panasonics. I have bought two very expensive upscaling DVRs made by Samsung and they don't have the picture quality of the Sony upscalers which sell for a quarter of what I paid for the Samsungs. Now that I think about it, I have never bought anything from Samsung that I liked.

As for the 20-100 and the 21-100, I wouldn't have one in my home. I have had at least 15 20-100s come to me to replace malfunctioning 20-700s and not one worked properly. Never owned a 21-100 and never intend to. I have seven 20/21-700s and all work perfectly.

Rich


----------



## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

The following is my post and a link from the HR20-700 issues thread:

"When using a guide filter or a search the list of results resets and bumps you back to the beginning. Steps to recreate:

>Apply a guide filter such as show types, specials or a search that produces tons of results.
>After the list of results populates start surfing the list. After paging down several times the please wait message pops up. When it clears you are at the top of the list.

Using filters and searches I can only go ahead about 36 hours. This makes setting up recordings a pain."

http://dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1670037&postcount=70

Does anyone else have this problem or do I have an issue with my box?

Maby someone could try to recreate this issue on their HR20-700 and see if it really is software. Any volunteers ?


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

rich584 said:


> One thing you can do is insist on a different model. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't have a 20-100 in my home (or a 21-100). The word "junk" comes to mind. I do have 5 stable 20-700s, but I had to go thru about 40 units to get those five. And I only had to go thru *two 21s *to get a stable unit.
> 
> Have you had you dish realigned? Do you have multi-switches? Is your cabling the correct size?
> 
> Rich


Which is the desired manufacturer for the HR21?

Just curious... I really wanted the HR20 at first, for the OTA. But even though I "_requested it_" (lip service I believe) I did not get it. The installer told me I'm better off with the HR21, which I hope is true... Most likely I will end up buying the AM21.

So does the manufacturer make that much of a difference? I have the 200. I notice that the 200 forums do not get nearly the traffic of the 100 and the 700.

Thanks


----------



## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

EricJRW said:


> I notice that the 200 forums do not get nearly the traffic of the 100 and the 700.


That's because there are more -100 and -700 models out there.

I have had an HR20-100 for over a year and no hardware problems.

A few software glitches in the past couple firmware updates, but no problem with the hardware.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

EricJRW said:


> Which is the desired manufacturer for the HR21?
> 
> Just curious... I really wanted the HR20 at first, for the OTA. But even though I "_requested it_" (lip service I believe) I did not get it. The installer told me I'm better off with the HR21, which I hope is true... Most likely I will end up buying the AM21.
> 
> ...


Never had a 21-200. They are made by Samsung and I have never had a good experience with Samsung products. They made the worst TiVos, I do know that. Given a choice I would suggest going with the 21-700. I have two that are functioning properly. Wouldn't take a chance on a 100, be it a 20 or a 21. Just my opinion, I've had about 15 of them and none worked properly. All were replacement units, never had one that was brand new. Some people seem to have no problems with the 100 (see Atari's post preceding this post).

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

Anyone running two HR21 based DVRs here. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a 700 and a 100, or a 200 and a 100 combination?

I just feel bad for Rich having so many problems with the 100 series yet, I haven't had any major issues with mine.

I'm wondering what are the signal strengths between the two DVRs, one being a 100 series HR21 and if this can affect the performance of the DVR in terms of stability. If they are identical then that rules out one scenario.

It's been a good week since my DVR rebooted on it's own. It's been three days since a system lock up, and with a Dish Realignment, not one ounce of Rain fade, and it rained all weekend, including today.

I've tried to reproduce a system lock up by mashing the buttons on the remote at random, but it keeps going without a hitch.

I know that when I first had this box set up, it was very sensitive to the point of it rebooting if thunder was heard off in the distance.

I'm just curious. I don't know if I could go through 15 DVRs, let alone 5.


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Never had a 21-200. They are made by Samsung and I have never had a good experience with Samsung products. They made the worst TiVos, I do know that. Given a choice I would suggest going with the 21-700. I have two that are functioning properly. Wouldn't take a chance on a 100, be it a 20 or a 21. Just my opinion, I've had about 15 of them and none worked properly. All were replacement units, never had one that was brand new. Some people seem to have no problems with the 100 (see Atari's post preceding this post).
> 
> Rich


Thanks... I saw that 200 is Samsung, and (at least in my first days) my 200 seems to be OK... it's very interesting that there are so many problems, and it seems unique problems, based on who made it... It amazes me you can go through 15 boxes... I am also a Xbox 360 owner, and suffered the "red ring of death" (aka the three flashing red lights)... This almost seems to be a bigger problem, but I guess there are more 360 owners than owners of these receivers.

Well I'm learning a lot from this board... All very informative.

Thank you.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

groove93 said:


> Anyone running two HR21 based DVRs here. Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a 700 and a 100, or a 200 and a 100 combination


I've seen almost identical numbers between H21, HR21, and HR20 receivers. 1-2 point differences.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> I just feel bad for Rich having so many problems with the 100 series yet, I haven't had any major issues with mine.


I actually had more problems with the 20-700s. But at least some of them worked. I never even got an eSATA to work with a 100. If I had to go thru all that aggravation to get to the point I'm at today, I guess it was worth it. I really didn't have a choice. There is nothing better than D* out there. I gotta admit, it was interesting and I've learned a lot about the 20/21s and eSATAs and HDMI stuff that I would have never known if these things had worked correctly out of the box in the Fall of 06.



> I'm wondering what are the signal strengths between the two DVRs, one being a 100 series HR21 and if this can affect the performance of the DVR in terms of stability. If they are identical then that rules out one scenario.


The sat sigs should be the same on both units.



> I've tried to reproduce a system lock up by mashing the buttons on the remote at random


That is really asking for trouble. I don't even surf with my 20/21s.



> I know that when I first had this box set up, it was very sensitive to the point of it rebooting if thunder was heard off in the distance.


Sounds like a really bad dish alignment. I don't see any signs of weather except for extreme pixillation when a heavy cell goes directly overhead.



> I'm just curious. I don't know if I could go through 15 DVRs


Getting closer to 50 now since 06. I did go thru a lot of UTV DVRs and TiVos too. Lots of hard drive problems. Not many HD issues with the 20/21s tho. I still think that most of the problems are caused by software that the DVRs cannot cope with.

I don't know how I managed to go thru the first year without going berserk. But, after a while, you get used to the terrible CSR service, and all the other stuff and learn to cope with it.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I've seen almost identical numbers between H21, HR21, and HR20 receivers. 1-2 point differences.


Would be very illogical to expect anything else, but...

All my 20/21s are reading the same sat sig strength. Or as close as I can get by running from room to room checking them. Seven 20/21s attached to five plasma TVs and they all look the same on each sat and on the same tuners and on the same transponders. What you would logically expect.

Yet on the two NRs preceding 230, my 21 kept having 0 signal strength on some sats and really low readings on others. On 101 I always had good readings. All my 20s had high readings that got higher when I had the dish realigned twice. But the 21 continued to have low or no readings. Then along came 230 and I was back to a nice stable 21, just like it was when I took it out of the box and started using it.

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

Rich, my comment about the sensitivity of my DVR at the slightest rumble of thunder was not a rain fade issue, but a "Reboot" issue.

After I re-aligned my dish over the weekend, and with plenty of thunderstorms throughout Saturday and Sunday, rain fade issues are gone and it has yet to reboot, and we had lightening close by during these storms.

This is why I asked about the transponder readouts. Just out of curiousity I was wondering if a dish that was not properly aligned may have caused power issues to the DVR.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

groove93 said:


> Rich, my comment about the sensitivity of my DVR at the slightest rumble of thunder was not a rain fade issue, but a "Reboot" issue.


It was rebooting at the sound of thunder? Or the vibration caused by the thunder? This is new. Don't doubt you one bit, but that means the dish must have been really loose. But why the reboots? Need an expert opinion on this.



> After I re-aligned my dish over the weekend, and with plenty of thunderstorms throughout Saturday and Sunday, rain fade issues are gone and it has yet to reboot, and we had lightening close by during these storms.


Yeah, I got that. I gotta admit I don't know what "rain fade issues" look like. Could you clarify? All I get when a heavy cell goes overhead is complete pixillation for a moment or two. Not sure what you mean by rain fade.



> This is why I asked about the transponder readouts. Just out of curiousity I was wondering if a dish that was not properly aligned may have caused power issues to the DVR.


Wouldn't surprise me. The way I understand the process is that the 20/21s put out the juice to the dish. Logically, you wouldn't think a poorly aligned dish would cause power issues with the DVRs, but as I'm sure you've noticed by now, logic and the 20/21s don't always agree with each other on a level that we can understand.

Rich


----------



## JRD57 (May 17, 2008)

groove93 said:


> Try a "1lnb" dish configuration to see if it goes all the way through. I tried this when I couldn't get my HR21 to read the three LNB configuration prior to my 5LNB dish upgrade and it worked.


I finally had a chance to try your alternate method-had to do "2lnb" option instead of one-and it went thru!! I then ran the setup for 5LNB and only 3 of the 5 transponders found the sat's. I have 4 other DVR's that are working properly, so it's not the dish. I made the setup for the 5LNB finish "with errors" but now at least I have a picture and no "searching for satellite 771" message.

What would cause this? Is this a bad box?

Thanks in advance.

JD


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

JRD57:

I'm kinda new here, but from what I've read one of the first things to try is swapping BBCs.

The problem can be anywhere from the dish down... Since you have other data points to confirm this dish is OK. So to rule out the box, work backwards from there...

If swapping the BBCs does not help, it would be good if you could try the "bad" box on a set of "good" inputs (i.e. in another room). Not always convenient, but conclusive. 

The last aspect to consider is the wiring and what is along the path. If the coax is not new (or even if it is), you may have a bad run. I have no experience with multi-switches, but if it applies, I'd trouble-shoot that too...

Well I hope that helps... Like I said, I'm new here... And thought I'd chime in while waiting for the experts to arrive....

I'm still on 0x235, so I like to watch this thread, as the HR21-200: 0x0XXX threads are so very quiet...


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

JRD57 said:


> I finally had a chance to try your alternate method-had to do "2lnb" option instead of one-and it went thru!! I then ran the setup for 5LNB and only 3 of the 5 transponders found the sat's. I have 4 other DVR's that are working properly, so it's not the dish. I made the setup for the 5LNB finish "with errors" but now at least I have a picture and no "searching for satellite 771" message.
> 
> What would cause this? Is this a bad box?
> 
> ...


Bad box, betcha.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

EricJRW said:


> JRD57:
> 
> I'm kinda new here, but from what I've read one of the first things to try is swapping BBCs.
> 
> ...


I know some people have had bad BBCs, but I never have had a bad one. I do have a bin full of them.

Rich


----------



## groove93 (Jun 10, 2008)

JRD57 said:


> I finally had a chance to try your alternate method-had to do "2lnb" option instead of one-and it went thru!! I then ran the setup for 5LNB and only 3 of the 5 transponders found the sat's. I have 4 other DVR's that are working properly, so it's not the dish. I made the setup for the 5LNB finish "with errors" but now at least I have a picture and no "searching for satellite 771" message.
> 
> What would cause this? Is this a bad box?
> 
> ...


Glad you made it this far. When you reconfigured your satellite settings, did you check to see if the two additional sats were "not enabled"? They are 72 and 109 or something similar to that. These were enabled on my DVR and was the main reason why I could not get past 25% while it was searching for a signal during the boot process.


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

rich584 said:


> I know some people have had bad BBCs, but I never have had a bad one. I do have a bin full of them.
> 
> Rich


Well once I realized it was a bit of active circuity and stopped calling it a filter, I suspect failures, while rare, are not unheard of (I did read one thread where tuner 1 and tuner 2 were different enough to point to a bad BBC). In this case, I got the impression it was low SS on both tuners, so quite unlikely 2 bad BBCs, but wouldn't that be a stinker if both BBCs where bad... Bet that would not be caught that quick...

Anyway I'm new, was up early, and thought any post (as long as it's not wrong) was better than no post, but dang, this board is active... Every time I'm ready to get up, there's activity on a thread I'm watching... And it's another 15 minues before I do get up.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

EricJRW said:


> Well once I realized it was a bit of active circuity and stopped calling it a filter, I suspect failures, while rare, are not unheard of (I did read one thread where tuner 1 and tuner 2 were different enough to point to a bad BBC). In this case, I got the impression it was low SS on both tuners, so quite unlikely 2 bad BBCs, but wouldn't that be a stinker if both BBCs where bad... Bet that would not be caught that quick...


When the first BBCs came out the thread on the connector to the box was short. And easily came loose. Really had to use a wrench to snug them up. Aside from that, the BBCs have been fine. That's too simple an answer.



> Anyway I'm new, was up early, and thought any post (as long as it's not wrong) was better than no post, but dang, this board is active... Every time I'm ready to get up, there's activity on a thread I'm watching... And it's another 15 minues before I do get up.


Be careful, it gets addictive.

Rich


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Be careful, it gets addictive.
> Rich


Worst part is when I'm on the couch, watching TV, and using the laptop to fill my brain with more HR21 bits....


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

EricJRW said:


> Worst part is when I'm on the couch, watching TV, and using the laptop to fill my brain with more HR21 bits....


I spend WAY too much time on this and not enough time watching TV and reading. I have improved my typing skills, tho. And when you need an answer to a problem, who you gonna call, D*? Usually an act of futility unless you want to get a replacement.

Rich


----------



## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

We got this release on both of our HR20s while I was on vacation. Now that we're back one of our HR20s -- the one we use the most -- gets regular freezes (about 1-2 per day). 

If I unplug and replug, things start working okay.

Is there a better way to handle this? I think there is some button on the front. Should I push that instead of unplugging and replugging?

Advice please.


----------



## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

Steve Rhodes said:


> If I unplug and replug, things start working okay.
> 
> Is there a better way to handle this? I think there is some button on the front. Should I push that instead of unplugging and replugging?
> 
> Advice please.


Reset button on receiver near your access card.
If unit still responds to remote commands, there's a reset available under system setup. Unplug and replug should be a last resort, although it hasn't seemed to hurt my unit yet...


----------



## EricJRW (Jul 6, 2008)

So far my HR21-200 seems to like 0x235, but I was looking forward to 0x251 (based on the release notes). But now I'm glad 0x251 did not happen to my box (though I have not checked since being away this weekend - But I'm guessing since the 0x251 release got pulled, it didn't).


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve Rhodes said:


> We got this release on both of our HR20s while I was on vacation. Now that we're back one of our HR20s -- the one we use the most -- gets regular freezes (about 1-2 per day).
> 
> If I unplug and replug, things start working okay.
> 
> ...


Couple things: I gather you have NR 251? I believe that has been stopped. You might be able to reload 235 by pulling the cord, waiting a minute or two and then plugging it again. When the blue ring starts turning, point your remote at the unit and punch in 0-2-4-6-8. That will get you the latest release. Hopefully, 235.

As far as the red button or the menu restart, neither method is as reliable as the "hard reboot". Pull the plug when you have a problem. If a CSR tells you to do a "red button reboot", say OK and pull the plug. You will not harm the DVR by pulling the plug.

We were advised a while back to forget the RBR and go with the "hard reboot" by the Earl of Chicago. Him I trusted. And still do.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

EricJRW said:


> So far my HR21-200 seems to like 0x235, but I was looking forward to 0x251 (based on the release notes). But now I'm glad 0x251 did not happen to my box (though I have not checked since being away this weekend - But I'm guessing since the 0x251 release got pulled, it didn't).


I would be happy with 235 forever. I dread the next NR. But then, I am a raging pessimist.

Rich


----------



## Ramalama (May 2, 2007)

I have Ox235 on a hr20-700 with tons and tons of problems. 

If I had 251 and it was pulled would the DATE show the original date of 235 which was June something or other - I vaguely recall seeing that I had 251 with a July date. 

Put another way in better sytax - when it is rolled back, does the date revert to last release?


----------



## SPACEMAKER (Dec 11, 2007)

My DVR has been a peice of junk ever since 0x235 came along. It's freezing up during recording, playback and at other random times. Everything was fine prior to 0x235. I am soo pissed off.
What can I do about this?


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Ramalama said:


> I have Ox235 on a hr20-700 with tons and tons of problems.
> 
> If I had 251 and it was pulled would the DATE show the original date of 235 which was June something or other - I vaguely recall seeing that I had 251 with a July date.
> 
> Put another way in better sytax - when it is rolled back, does the date revert to last release?


What kind of problems you having?

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

SPACEMAKER said:


> My DVR has been a peice of junk ever since 0x235 came along. It's freezing up during recording, playback and at other random times. Everything was fine prior to 0x235. I am soo pissed off.
> What can I do about this?


If it was working properly with 230, you might try forcing a download of 235. That might fix it. Worked once for me. Assuming your DVR worked properly with 230, it's obvious your problems are caused by 235. You might have to wait for the next NR. What kind of 20/21 is it? The only other thing you can do is get a replacement DVR and start all over again.

Don't happen to belong to the Protection Plan, do you?

Rich


----------



## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Couple things: I gather you have NR 251? I believe that has been stopped. You might be able to reload 235 by pulling the cord, waiting a minute or two and then plugging it again. When the blue ring starts turning, point your remote at the unit and punch in 0-2-4-6-8. That will get you the latest release. Hopefully, 235.
> 
> As far as the red button or the menu restart, neither method is as reliable as the "hard reboot". Pull the plug when you have a problem. If a CSR tells you to do a "red button reboot", say OK and pull the plug. You will not harm the DVR by pulling the plug.
> 
> ...


Both of our units are on 235. They've never had 251.

My main unit just froze again. It happens when I press pause. Of course, most of the pause presses work fine, but about once a day they don't now. Never (well not that I can remember) had this problem before 235 was loaded.


----------



## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> If it was working properly with 230, you might try forcing a download of 235. That might fix it. Worked once for me. Assuming your DVR worked properly with 230, it's obvious your problems are caused by 235. You might have to wait for the next NR. What kind of 20/21 is it? The only other thing you can do is get a replacement DVR and start all over again.
> 
> Don't happen to belong to the Protection Plan, do you?
> 
> Rich


I willing to try anything. HOW exactly do I force a download, so I reload a fresh copy of 235 on top of my 235?


----------



## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Been reading this thread for a few days of all the problems people are having with 0235 and thinking all the while I have been lucky without even a hiccup on either -700. I don't know if this would be software related or just a strange glitch, but last night watching a recorded Burn Notice my HR20 froze, picture and sound, just like it was paused. The only fix was a hard reboot. Restarted the same show and it froze again at the same 9 minute mark. Hard reboot and it locked again, same spot. Reboot, fast forwarded past the 9 minute mark and all was well. My system is on the mark on all fronts. I have never seen this malady before, anyone with any ideas? Maybe just a fluke to ignore?


----------



## tlrowley (Jun 21, 2007)

I was having freezing in Burn Notice, too. I'm just getting around to watching it now. My problem was slightly different, if I paused, I couldn't start playback. I also had this problem on Shear Genius (BravoHD). 

So far, so good on this viewing of Burn Notice, but I'm not going to pause


----------



## dinotheo (Sep 22, 2006)

My signal strengths are very high. I paid a 3rd party to come out and tweak my dish. I am in the 90's on pretty much everything.

Here is what I had to deal with just today. 
2 HR20's were frozen and had to be hard booted. (Not sure when they froze, they were that way when I went to watch TV)
1 HR21 spontaneously rebooted.
1 H20 stopped responding to remote. (I know this has nothing to do with 235 but annoyed me anyways)

I have been having problems since the NR just before 235 (231?) My biggest problem is that if I lose the satellite because of heavy thunderstorms (causing 771 errors and searching for satellite on my HR10's) the HR20/21's can't recover from this. They still show 771 errors when my R15 and HR10's have come back. I need to reset them to get them to clear the 771 errors. 

I will beat a dead horse. All of the fancy schmancy features of the HR20/21's are not worth a dime if the things can't even perform their basic functionality. Sigh.....I never had problems with my TiVO units.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Steve Rhodes said:


> I willing to try anything. HOW exactly do I force a download, so I reload a fresh copy of 235 on top of my 235?


Pull the plug, wait a minute and plug it back in. When the blue circle lights up and starts spinning point the mote at the DVR and punch in 0-2-4-6-8 and follow the instructions on the screen.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

davring said:


> Been reading this thread for a few days of all the problems people are having with 0235 and thinking all the while I have been lucky without even a hiccup on either -700. I don't know if this would be software related or just a strange glitch, but last night watching a recorded Burn Notice my HR20 froze, picture and sound, just like it was paused. The only fix was a hard reboot. Restarted the same show and it froze again at the same 9 minute mark. Hard reboot and it locked again, same spot. Reboot, fast forwarded past the 9 minute mark and all was well. My system is on the mark on all fronts. I have never seen this malady before, anyone with any ideas? Maybe just a fluke to ignore?


Might be a fluke. Probably not. If it happens again, you might have to wait for the next NR or get a replacement box.

Rich


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dinotheo said:


> My signal strengths are very high. I paid a 3rd party to come out and tweak my dish. I am in the 90's on pretty much everything.
> 
> Here is what I had to deal with just today.
> 2 HR20's were frozen and had to be hard booted. (Not sure when they froze, they were that way when I went to watch TV)
> ...


That is a lot of problems. I gather nothing like this happened to you before? The H20 having issues at the same time might be an indicator of something else wrong with your "system". I never had an H20 but for it to fail at the same time as the HRs is peculiar.



> I have been having problems since the NR just before 235 (231?)


That NR was 230. The two previous NRs to 230 caused me to rewire and have a new dish installed and have the dish realigned twice by D* (gotta love the Protection Plan). As soon as I got 230 my problems stopped and when 235 downloaded, I still had no problems. I have seven 20/21s running 235 and have had no issues at all. I know the software is OK. You might want to try a forced download of 235 on each 20/21 and hope that helps. Hard to believe you have three DVRs that have problems with 235. One I could understand, but three leads me to believe something else is the cause. AND the H20?



> My biggest problem is that if I lose the satellite because of heavy thunderstorms (causing 771 errors and searching for satellite on my HR10's) the HR20/21's can't recover from this. They still show 771 errors when my R15 and HR10's have come back. I need to reset them to get them to clear the 771 errors.


That sounds like a software issue, but the 20s should all be functioning well on 235. It also reeks of a misaligned dish.

What would I do? Hmmmm. I do believe that I would call D* and get that dish realigned by them. I've used independent contractors a couple of times and haven't really found them to be any better than D*'s installers when it comes to troubleshooting a system malfunction.



> I will beat a dead horse. All of the fancy schmancy features of the HR20/21's are not worth a dime if the things can't even perform their basic functionality. Sigh.....I never had problems with my TiVO units.


Not the end of the world. Have patience. The more I think about this, the more it sounds like a system problem rather than a problem with your DVRs. They should recover after a thunderstorm. I've never had to reboot one following a storm. Just out of curiosity, does your dish have support legs on the pipe holding the dish? That H20 keeps popping up in my mind and that sure sounds like a dish problem. Do you have a grounding block installed?

Rich


----------



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Thanks for continuing the discussion guys .. I've combined the 0x235 and 0x251 discussion into a single thread, so please continue posting in the following thread if you have 0x235 ..

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=132199


----------

