# Problems with EA Satellite at 77 - Outage 1-30-11 - A Continuing Story



## whobie (Mar 6, 2005)

Has anyone else awakened to no signal from 77?  Tried the usual troubleshooting.
61.5 and 72 seem to be okay.
Wonder if my 2 month old 1000.4 dish has bit the dust already? Thanks.


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## steverichmond (Oct 11, 2007)

I'm gettig the same thing on all receivers in my house. I call Dish and the automated phone systems said there was an outage in my area. Not sure, just gona wait and see. Good thing I have OTA!


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## steverichmond (Oct 11, 2007)

It's back!


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Same here


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

steverichmond said:


> It's back!


I wouldn't bet on it.

DISH has been moving channels off of 77 all morning --- to 61.5 and 72.7. They have removed some PPV and test channels from 72.7 to make room. At best guess, there is a major failure.

See the Uplink Activity for more information on the moves. Another batch is about to be posted.

Checking the Menu-6-1-1 Point Dish Screen I'm seeing no signal.


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## RobertAEI1281 (Jan 30, 2011)

I just had one of my techs call me and tell me he is still getting no signal from the Dish 77 EA .4 Satellite. We are from Michigan-4K area.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Yep, it sure looks like a major failure on 77. I've not seen any official (or even unofficial) word from Dish on this. But they are shuffling channels as fast as they can it appears.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The last batch of moves included moving some channels to other 77 transponders in Georgia and Louisiana ... I wonder if they are trying to use the Mexican aimed satellite for those transponders?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

I am now seeing some weak signals from the 77 degree satellite on some lower transponders. Most of them are still completely dead.


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## RobertAEI1281 (Jan 30, 2011)

First E-Connect was down nation wide, and now the 77 orbital craps out. :lol:


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## steverichmond (Oct 11, 2007)

Ship sinking? :lol:


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

What if I don't get 72.5 and my chanels are moved there?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There are more channels left than I expected ...
http://uplink.jameslong.name/chan77.html

The southern markets could be fed off of the satellite DISH uses for Mexico. But there are some markets missing some of their channels.


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## jtiner (Jun 21, 2010)

I just happened to run a check switch and it reports no 77 at all....
Of course, I never had anything but a slight signal off the outer edge of one or two beams anyway.....


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## andrew40 (Jan 8, 2011)

My local channels in HD are missing. Tech support told me a 'couple' of satellites were down but would be back up in a couple of hours...we shall see!


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Last message I got was 77 and 61.5 were down no time table for solution


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

ally68 said:


> Last message I got was 77 and 61.5 were down no time table for solution


61.5 isn't down. Some of the transponders on 77 are back up (but much weaker than normal).


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

Checked all channels and all seems well. Did not do sat check.


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Anyone got any news?


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## andrew40 (Jan 8, 2011)

"ally68" said:


> Anyone got any news?


Nothing new for me...HD locals still gone


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

andrew40 said:


> Nothing new for me...HD locals still gone


Paducah, KY? It is one of the few markets left to fix.

Still on 77 at this time:
TP 1 - Monroe, LA 
TP 5 - Jacksonville, FL
TP 9 - Lake Charles, LA
TP 13 - Macon, GA
TP 17 - Columbus, GA
TP 21 - Bluefield/Oak Hill, WV
TP 25 - Wilmington, NC
TP 29 - Paducah, KY/Harrisburg, IL

TP 12 - DISH Latino (some channels)

Some channels have been dropped completely to make room ... the last shuffle moved Cincinnati, OH, Davenport, IA/Rock Island, IL and Springfield, MA across. It would be nice to at least put the SD versions up on 61.5/72.7 for those who lost HD via 77.


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Yes my hd is moved but it is no fix as I do not get 72.7 will I have to call in?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

James Long said:


> Some channels have been dropped completely to make room ... the last shuffle moved Cincinnati, OH, Davenport, IA/Rock Island, IL and Springfield, MA across. It would be nice to at least put the SD versions up on 61.5/72.7 for those who lost HD via 77.


Yes - SD locals would be better than NO locals.


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

See http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/241828-latest-eastern-arc-satellite-issue-update.html


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

James Long said:


> Paducah, KY? It is one of the few markets left to fix.
> 
> Still on 77 at this time:
> TP 1 - Monroe, LA
> ...


Strange, I am in the Paducah, KY DMA and all is working after they made the shift this morning.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> Strange, I am in the Paducah, KY DMA and all is working after they made the shift this morning.


It must be something with his dish. Perhaps a Western Arc+77 setup?

Good to see you're getting the channels.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Yeah, that must be it. That was done with some people when they put the locals in HD on the EA. Mine is a full EA setup as it was the best way because of a pesky neighbor tree.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

A little comparison - The first image was before the problem at 77 - the second is after:
















DISH managed to fit the HD channels that were on 18 transponders on to 15. (The last moves from 72.7 to 61.5 added HD channels to existing transponders ... nearly all EA HD transponders now have 9 channels on them. One has 10.) The gray "Future" area is the 9 transponders at 72.5 that DirecTV is still using. DirecTV should be off of these transponders by the end of the year. DISH had several transponders open on 61.5, which made the quick fix easier.

Even transponders at 77: There are currently 14 transponders (all on 77) with no real channels, one with internal test channels and one with DISH Latino channels.

Odd transponders at 77: There are currently 8 transponders in use for the Mexican service, and 8 remain in use for US locals. EchoStar 1, DISH's oldest satellite, is at 77 and can only do odd channels. DISH's E1 US coverage is approximately:








Dish size: Inside red line, 70cm (27"); inside blue area 80cm (31"); inside yellow area 90cm (35").


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## rtd2 (Oct 2, 2006)

although Im not affected directly by this it would appear dish did an impressive job in a short time recovering from this.


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## dakeeney (Aug 30, 2004)

:goodjob:

Bravo to Dish!!


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Does this mean springfield mo hd locals are likely to stay on 72.7 and I will need a repointed?


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

Somebody cue the "sanford and son" theme song please for E3 or E6 to join the inlined orbit E4, the old geezer E1, and the crippled E8 @ 77. If E3 or E6 can even make the trip themselves from 61.5.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Ideally - you should have had a full Eastern Arc setup, in which case you wouldn't need to do anything. 
I'm assuming that since you do have a full Western Arc setup (119,110,129) that you are at least getting some locals, even if they aren't in HD ? If you are, or you can get them off an OTA antenna - I'd wait for a couple weeks. Besides - aren't you guys still having winter out there ?

Dish may have some options about pulling another satellite in, but it will take some time to get it in place.

E3 is essentially dead, E4 has traveled the whole western hemisphere and it has lost alot of its transponders. E6 or E7 are the ones that might help.


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

I think it would be a mistake to move E7 from the WA @ 119 in case it is ever required for backup there. E3 & E6 seem like the only options, E3 was in use right up until a couple of months ago so why do you think it is worthless? Was E6 ever in use @ 61.5 or did it basically sit there as a placeholder and backup in case E3 failed?


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Yes I have WA and a second dish for 77 and I do have my SD locals
Chatted with customer service this morning they are still work as if they will be shifted back to 77 or something that will not require a repoint so I guess I will wait. I really don't want to watch superbowl in SD.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

This episode really shows why Dish was pushing very hard for pure EA and WA setups instead of the mixed ones that are out there. That way shifts like this can happen relatively quickly with minimal interruption.

Kudos to Dish for responding quickly and coming up with an excellent process, even if not perfect!


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

I wish they would change me but when I got hd locals they just stuck that dish up there.


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

The only reason the shifts could happen is because they had open capacity, if they were at full capacity who knows what the story would have been, one thing is for sure the lack of spotbeam capacity at 61.5 right now is a handicap, putting locals on Conus is not ideal. Keeping internationals in MPEG2 QPSK at 61.5 is also a problematic. Dish operates behind the curve.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

ally68 said:


> Yes I have WA and a second dish for 77 and I do have my SD locals
> Chatted with customer service this morning they are still work as if they will be shifted back to 77 or something that will not require a repoint so I guess I will wait. I really don't want to watch superbowl in SD.


If you can do it yourself, I probably would if you don't have OTA available. But you'll probably need some sort of meter to do it yourself.


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

Before you make any changes, take a sharpie and make a vertical mark on the arm and mount for az, also mark your elavation on the side of the mount, label them 77, for 77 west. Then you can always go back easily. You can use the meter on your receiver to hit 72,7 since it is booming, turn the dish slowly one hair at a time to the east and you will probably get a signal from 72.7, then adjust your elavation down about 2 points at a time.


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

I am not planing on fooling with it it is 2 stories up.


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

Also I still am gettin locals in SD


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## andrew40 (Jan 8, 2011)

"James Long" said:


> Paducah, KY? It is one of the few markets left to fix.
> 
> Still on 77 at this time:
> TP 1 - Monroe, LA
> ...


No, the lexington ky locals actually. I may be smelling a service call?


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## andrew40 (Jan 8, 2011)

I should say, as of about 6:30 eastern time this morning they still werent back. Maybe it's been corrected since then. I'll find out tonight I suppose


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## andrew40 (Jan 8, 2011)

One last note for now...not that this is a definitive authority, but I did login to dish remote access a few minutes ago and the HD locals were not in the guide. I'd always seen them before


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

RMichals said:


> The only reason the shifts could happen is because they had open capacity, if they were at full capacity who knows what the story would have been, one thing is for sure the lack of spotbeam capacity at 61.5 right now is a handicap, putting locals on Conus is not ideal. Keeping internationals in MPEG2 QPSK at 61.5 is also a problematic. Dish operates behind the curve.


Certainly what they did isn't ideal, but it got the job done. And yes, it is good they had the capacity to pull it off, and the willingness to work hard to minimize the effect. That's all good things.

But it brings up a point, how much buffer do you need to be ready for things like this happening?


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

Yes, the speed of the transfer was great, but there are other longer running problems which they have delayed for too long, like the current lack of spotbeam capacity in the EA and MPEG2 QPSK internationals customers still not being transitioned to 8PSK.


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## SidDavis (Jan 31, 2011)

I have 77 on a wing dish just to get Springfield, MO HD, and get the remainder of my 250 channel service on 110, 119, 110 on the primary dish.

I tried aiming the wing dish at 72.7, using the meter on my 612 receiver, but picked up nothing. 

I called Dishnetwork to ask if they needed to throw some switch on their end to reset me to 72.7 and the service rep didn't even know 77 was down and Springfield had been uplinked to 72.7; typical. After she conferred with someone else she told me yes, 61.5, 72.7, and 77 were temporarily out of service and they had not yet resolved the solution, so I would just need to wait.

If Springfield, MO HD is to stay on 72.7, do you know if Dishnetwork needs to reset me at their end? This particular service rep didn't seem to know much.


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

Did you run a check switch? Only 77 is affected by the outage. Dish moved some stations to 61.5 and 72.7.


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

Set your your receivers signal meter to satelllite 72 Transponder 18, Then reset your elevation on the side of mount according to this website.

http://www.dishpointer.com/?address=Springfield,+MO&satellite=-72.7

For Springfield, MO area

for 72.7
Az 146 
EL 42

for 77 was
AZ 153 
EL 44

Slowly turn the dish a hair east and change the EL setting on side of the mount. Remember to run a check switch after you get a green signal lock for 72 satellite.


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## ally68 (May 10, 2005)

I am in same boat but not going to fool with my dish yet. If they stay on 72 then I will need to do a service call to repoint. But since we don't know what they are planning to do and since they will no even do a service call yet because they have not finilized anything yet. I will just wait in SD on locals.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

andrew40 said:


> No, the lexington ky locals actually. I may be smelling a service call?


Lexington HDs are now on 61.5 ... if you have a mixed setup (as noted previously) of Western Arc + 77 you'll either need to repoint the 77 dish to 61.5 or change to a full Eastern Arc setup.

What satellites do you have on your check dish screen (Menu-6-1-1)?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Most of yesterday's changes were market moves from 77 to 61.5 and 72.7 ... and HD channel moves to 61.5 to make room for the markets that needed moving. The following channels were "lost in the shuffle" for Eastern Arc customers:

*Uplinks Removed - PPV*
472 SPORT PPV Sports removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD)
502 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
503 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
504 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
505 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
507 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
511 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 28 (HD)
512 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 28 (HD)
513 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
514 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
515 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 27 (HD)
516 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 16 (HD)
517 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 16 (HD)
518 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 16 (HD)
519 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 16 (HD)
520 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 16 (HD)
521 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 16 (HD)
522 MOVIE DISH Cinema removed from 72.7° TP 16 (HD)

*Uplinks Removed - DISH Latino*
832 CNTRO Centroamerica TV removed from 77° TP 21 (SD MPEG4)
853 DSFAM Discovery Kids/Familia removed from 77° TP 21 (SD MPEG4)
863 PCLAS De Pelicula Clasico removed from 77° TP 21 (SD MPEG4)
865 CINEL Cine Lantino removed from 77° TP 21 (SD MPEG4)
867 BDMAX BandaMax removed from 77° TP 21 (SD MPEG4)
868 TLHIT Telehit removed from 77° TP 21 (SD MPEG4)
872 TR3S MTV Tr3s removed from 77° TP 21 (SD MPEG4 Hidden)
(Additional DISH Latino channels remain on 77 but the new footprint does not cover the same area as the old satellite.)

*Uplinks Removed - International Channels*
577 PFC PFC Internacional (Brazil) removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
598 RBTI RBTI Brasilero (Brazil) removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
797 SHARA Sahara One (Hindi) removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
916 ERASP ERA Sport Radio removed from 61.5° TP 4 (Audio Hidden)

*Uplinks Removed - Public Interest Channels*
9393 3ABN Three Angels Broadcasting removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Preview)
9402 HHS Health and Human Services removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
9405 PNTGN Pentagon Channel removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
9406 ARTS Classic Arts Showcase removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
9413 ALMA AlmaVision Hispanic Network removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
9418 PAEC Florida Ed Channel/PAEC removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
9850 KBS KBS World removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Hidden)
9902 D61.5 61.5 Test Channel removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Free Free)

Customers with an Eastern Arc dish should have everything back except what is noted here. If you have what is now a non-standard setup (mixing Western Arc satellites with Eastern Arc) you're probably missing channels. (Note: Channels 502-515 were removed as this message was being typed. More changes are expected ... and will be reported.)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Channels returning ...

The DISH Latino, international and PI channels have returned ... other than the HD PPV channels only the following channels remain missing:

916 ERASP ERA Sport Radio removed from 61.5° TP 4 (Audio Hidden)
9902 D61.5 61.5 Test Channel removed from 61.5° TP 4 (SD Free Free)


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Hopefully they'll get everything all cranked up again. I sure hope that the PPVs come back, I still have a few coupons to use...


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

With all of the "cramming" of programming off of 77 onto 61.5 and 72.7 transponders, how has all this impacted the PQ overall on the EA?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

tkrandall said:


> With all of the "cramming" of programming off of 77 onto 61.5 and 72.7 transponders, how has all this impacted the PQ overall on the EA?


Probably not in a good way.


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

I can't tell the difference.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

tkrandall said:


> With all of the "cramming" of programming off of 77 onto 61.5 and 72.7 transponders, how has all this impacted the PQ overall on the EA?


DISH was already doing 9 per transponder on a couple of EA transponders (61.5 TP 10 and 72.7 TP 27) ... now all of the active transponders have 9 channels. Basically they are just filling in the "holes".

The channels that are 10 per transponder (61.5 TP 10 - 21500 2/3 FEC 8PSK) are:
374 FTV - Fashion TV
381/296 EPIX2 - Epix 2
385/298 MGM - MGM Movie Channel
394 WFN - World Fishing Network
497 HUSLR -Hustler TV (Adult PPV)
9437 (215) TRV - The Travel Channel
9438 (214) TWC - The Weather Channel
9439 (208) CNBC - CNBC
9479 (313) ACMAX - Action Max
9511 (209) MSNBC - MSNBC

With the newer satellites I believe DISH can get away with it without PQ being noticeably worse than it was before the consolidation.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

does dish need to put up new birds to replace the one that failed?
was it a total failure?
any new sats going up anytime soon?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

domingos35 said:


> does dish need to put up new birds to replace the one that failed?
> was it a total failure?
> any new sats going up anytime soon?


At this point, those that know the answers to those questions aren't saying. 

I think there is a replacement for 77 coming late this year.


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## andrew40 (Jan 8, 2011)

"James Long" said:


> Lexington HDs are now on 61.5 ... if you have a mixed setup (as noted previously) of Western Arc + 77 you'll either need to repoint the 77 dish to 61.5 or change to a full Eastern Arc setup.
> 
> What satellites do you have on your check dish screen (Menu-6-1-1)?


I've got 119, 110, 129 and 77. I'm definitely not competent enough to mess with repointing.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

domingos35 said:


> does dish need to put up new birds to replace the one that failed?
> was it a total failure?
> any new sats going up anytime soon?


The replacement for 77 was already planned ... and delayed several times. Last word is a November 2011 launch.

I expect there will be a fix before then - there are other spares in orbit that can be moved to 77 ... although that would leave other slots unprotected. I don't believe E8 has been declared a total loss yet.

BTW: I find it amazing that E1 is still running after nearly 16 years of service and the newer satellites are having issues.


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

They don't build em like they used to!


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

James Long said:


> BTW: I find it amazing that E1 is still running after nearly 16 years of service and the newer satellites are having issues.


From an engineering standpoint the older satellite were much simpler than the newer spot beam satellites but I agree with you and am also amazed that it continues to work very well (knock on wood).


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

RMichals said:


> The only reason the shifts could happen is because they had open capacity, if they were at full capacity who knows what the story would have been, *one thing is for sure the lack of spotbeam capacity at 61.5 right now is a handicap*, putting locals on Conus is not ideal. Keeping internationals in MPEG2 QPSK at 61.5 is also a problematic. Dish operates behind the curve.



61.5 has spotbeams! Unfortunately they probably don't cover the areas affected by this outage or they are already full of other markets (like mine).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Michael P said:


> 61.5 has spotbeams! Unfortunately they probably don't cover the areas affected by this outage or they are already full of other markets (like mine).


61.5's spotbeams were designed for a company with limited uplink transponders. One uplink site serves at most two downlink beams with up to 12 transponders per uplink split between the two downlinks. In order to use all the spotbeams on 61.5 a sufficient number of uplink sites had to be built. DISH has 9 uplink sites in use aimed at 61.5 for spots.

Nearly all spot downlinks are in use. One transponder in Miami and two in New Orleans remain unused at this time. The next satellite planned for 61.5 will be another spotbeam bird, designed around DISH's licensing (which allows uplinks on 30 transponders plus two via STA). DISH may be able to close some uplink sites or use the nine sites to feed even more spots at 61.5.

72.7 is ConUS only on a new satellite. Probably the best use as a core satellite with all the national HD and SD on it and nothing else (once DirecTV vacates and this issue with 77 is over).

77 is limited to the southern US so it is a great place for local market spots (and the separate service to Mexico). QuetzSat-1 cannot launch too soon!


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## RMichals (Sep 28, 2008)

I was refering to the long aniticipated new spotbeam satellite E16 for 61.5 which is supposed to replace E12 within the next 2 years. It will have much tighter spotbeams then E12.


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## Christopher Gould (Jan 14, 2007)

what satellite was this?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Christopher Gould said:


> what satellite was this?


EchoStar 8 is the one no longer in service.


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## Aransay (Jun 19, 2006)

mexican service are okey so what hapedn with echostar 8


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## SidDavis (Jan 31, 2011)

thomasjk said:


> Did you run a check switch? Only 77 is affected by the outage. Dish moved some stations to 61.5 and 72.7.


Thanks. After I went to the point dish menu and selected Satellite 72.7 and Transponder 18, I ran the check switch tests. The receiver went through a reset and I had my Springfield, MO HD channels back. I had to do this for both my 612 and 211 separately.

I then tried moving the dish a little east and a little lower to get a stronger signal, but where it was originally gave me the strongest reading, so I just returned it to the original position and left it. My strength reading is running about 64 which is better than I previously got on Satellite 77.


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## Juanjo (Feb 1, 2011)

Quick question guys: I have a 6' dish pointed towards 77 so that I can local hd programming. I was getting tp 14 with a low signal strength and now that they moved the channels due to the outage of 77 yesterday I am getting them via Tp 1 with a signal of over 80. Why would that be? 
Also, I can get a signal from 77 would I be able to also get it from 72.7 using a separate dish?


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

Did anyone else see a big hiccup sometime between 6 and 7 pm eastern time? I had Discovery HD on at 6 and all was well. At that time I switched to a local channel off my antenna for the local news, then to cable for the network news. At 7 pm I went back to Dish and saw it was updating the program guide and the progress bar was marching across. A few minutes later there was a message that there was no signal detected and to call the 800 number for service or unplug the receiver and restart it. I ignored that and watched an hour show on the DVR. The receiver was showing a black screen when that show was over so I watched another hour from the DVR. At the end of that show satellite reception had returned though the program guide is still not populated. I'm assuming this is related to Dish's activities to restore service.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Juanjo said:


> Quick question guys: I have a 6' dish pointed towards 77 so that I can local hd programming. I was getting tp 14 with a low signal strength and now that they moved the channels due to the outage of 77 yesterday I am getting them via Tp 1 with a signal of over 80. Why would that be?
> Also, I can get a signal from 77 would I be able to also get it from 72.7 using a separate dish?


Transponder 1's pattern is more southern than Transponder 14's.

Since DISH does not offer service where you are I'll leave the explanation there.
Your locals were never on 77. Monroe, LA's locals are there, but not yours.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I took a quick look at the FCC's website to see if any emergency moves have been requested. The only new filings are the withdrawal of requests placed last November to move EchoStar 4 from 77 to 86.5 (where it was to provide HD locals). The withdrawal was filed last Thursday ... before Sunday's issue.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

James Long said:


> The withdrawal was filed last Thursday ... before Sunday's issue.


Makes you wonder if Dish already knew something was not quite right with Echostar 8 at that point.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

So are Cincinnati HD channels available at all? I saw in the uplink report that they were moved, but it also said hidden. I'm not used to reading those, so not sure if that means hidden from receivers. I have a friend with Dish who is not getting the Cincinnati HD channels, but I'm not sure yet whether he has a full Eastern Arc setup, or the Western+77.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> So are Cincinnati HD channels available at all? I saw in the uplink report that they were moved, but it also said hidden. I'm not used to reading those, so not sure if that means hidden from receivers. I have a friend with Dish who is not getting the Cincinnati HD channels, but I'm not sure yet whether he has a full Eastern Arc setup, or the Western+77.


Yes, The Cincinnati HD locals are available on the 61.5 satellite (transponder 18). "Hidden" means that they are hidden to non-subscribers. The problem is that a lot of Cincinnati area DISH customers (including myself) only have a wing dish for 77 (not a full EA setup) so we can't get the 61.5 satellite. DISH is saying NOT to move the 77 wing dish to 61.5 (and they won't currently set up an appointment to do that). The CSRs have been telling customers that they expect that the 77 degree satellite "will be fixed within a few hours". They have been using that script since about noon Sunday and we really don't have any idea what is going on with the 77 degree satellite (nor do they).

Note to James: the "hidden" word confuses a lot of people. Maybe it should read "Hidden to non-subscribers" or something like that.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Bill R said:


> Yes, The Cincinnati HD locals are available on the 61.5 satellite (transponder 18). "Hidden" means that they are hidden to non-subscribers. The problem is that a lot of Cincinnati area DISH customers (including myself) only have a wing dish for 77 (not a full EA setup) so we can't get the 61.5 satellite. DISH is saying NOT to move the 77 wing dish to 61.5 (and they won't currently set up an appointment to do that). The CSRs have been telling customers that they expect that the 77 degree satellite "will be fixed within a few hours". They have been using that script since about noon Sunday and we really don't have any idea what is going on with the 77 degree satellite (nor do they).
> 
> Note to James: the "hidden" word confuses a lot of people. Maybe it should read "Hidden to non-subscribers" or something like that.


Yeah, I'm really pleased I talked them into a full EA setup about two years ago when the started carrying the HD locals here. I was on 110/119 with a wing for 61.5, if they had just moved the wing to 77 like they wanted I would be relying on OTA only for those HD locals!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Bill R said:


> Yes, The Cincinnati HD locals are available on the 61.5 satellite (transponder 18). "Hidden" means that they are hidden to non-subscribers. The problem is that a lot of Cincinnati area DISH customers (including myself) only have a wing dish for 77 (not a full EA setup) so we can't get the 61.5 satellite. DISH is saying NOT to move the 77 wing dish to 61.5 (and they won't currently set up an appointment to do that). The CSRs have been telling customers that they expect that the 77 degree satellite "will be fixed within a few hours". They have been using that script since about noon Sunday and we really don't have any idea what is going on with the 77 degree satellite (nor do they).
> 
> Note to James: the "hidden" word confuses a lot of people. Maybe it should read "Hidden to non-subscribers" or something like that.


Thanks, that makes sense. I hope they resolve the issue soon, and I really mean that.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> Thanks, that makes sense. I hope they resolve the issue soon, and I really mean that.


So do I and I'm sure a lot of other local customers feel the same way. What is really frustrating for a lot of customers around here is the lack of information coming from DISH and Echostar. I'm sure that, by now, they have some idea of what the problem is (or was), can the problem be resolved and, if so, when.

I do know one person that called DISH this morning about a re-point of his 77 wing dish to 61.5. He was told that he could get that done for $65 but would have to pay $65 again when (and if) our locals are moved back to 77. He called me after he talked to them and said he is seriously thinking about dropping DISH and getting cable. It just so happens that the local cable company is having a "Super Bowl Promo" and are really offering some good deals to new customers.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

For those that have the mixed pointing, why not just get the switch over to EA and you don't have to point and repoint. Dish has been pushing for 'pure' arcs for quite sometime now. Some of us payed to have them do it 'cause we wouldn't wait for the call to get it done for free.

It just seems to me that keeping a mixed setup is just asking for problems. Or is there some reason not to do it that I'm not aware of?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Bill R said:


> So do I and I'm sure a lot of other local customers feel the same way. What is really frustrating for a lot of customers around here is the lack of information coming from DISH and Echostar. I'm sure that, by now, they have some idea of what the problem is (or was), can the problem be resolved and, if so, when.
> 
> I do know one person that called DISH this morning about a re-point of his 77 wing dish to 61.5. He was told that he could get that done for $65 but would have to pay $65 again when (and if) our locals are moved back to 77. He called me after he talked to them and said he is seriously thinking about dropping DISH and getting cable. It just so happens that the local cable company is having a "Super Bowl Promo" and are really offering some good deals to new customers.


Yeah, this is a really bad time to lose local HD channels and not know it will be back soon. People have their Super Bowl parties planned, and not everyone gets a good OTA signal.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

lparsons21 said:


> For those that have the mixed pointing, why not just get the switch over to EA and you don't have to point and repoint. Dish has been pushing for 'pure' arcs for quite sometime now. Some of us payed to have them do it 'cause we wouldn't wait for the call to get it done for free.
> 
> It just seems to me that keeping a mixed setup is just asking for problems. Or is there some reason not to do it that I'm not aware of?


It just isn't that simple. DISH may be "pushing" for "pure" arcs but the local installers sure haven't bought into that. In every case that I know of for existing customers they put up wing dishes for 77. In most cases that I know of the people that called DISH and asked to upgrade to a single dish (EA 1000.4) were charged for it. Most people don't think that it is worth paying and since their two dish system worked fine (until 77 went out) they did not think it was necessary to have a single dish. Around here only the new HD customers are getting the single dish installs.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks for the info Bill. Around here, most got switched completely to EA when the locals lit up in HD on 77. Very few got a wing dish, mostly those that used a local retailer instead of calling Dish directly.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bill R said:


> It just isn't that simple. DISH may be "pushing" for "pure" arcs but the local installers sure haven't bought into that. In every case that I know of for existing customers they put up wing dishes for 77.


It sounds like DISH needs to smack the installers around. Or make them eat the cost of repointing people twice if they don't want to follow the corporate instructions.

The trouble is a few years ago there was no "Eastern Arc" and installers got used to installing wing dishes. Some never broke the habit. I know a local installer in my EA town that hated the EA dishes ... which I never understood. One dish is easier to install than two.

As for a fix ... I'm hoping something can be done in the sky that ends up being faster than going around on the ground repointing or replacing thousands of dishes - and then moving them back after the fix.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

James Long said:


> It sounds like DISH needs to smack the installers around. Or make them eat the cost of repointing people twice if they don't want to follow the corporate instructions.


I talked to quite a few of the installers that work in our area and they are, for the most part, knowledgeable, motivated people who want to do a good job. The problem is the (seemingly) sleazy gypsy company they work for. I agree that DISH needs to get more control over what their contractors do but it seems (to me) that nobody is "looking" at what goes on in parts of our area.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Bill R said:


> I talked to quite a few of the installers that work in our area and they are, for the most part, knowledgeable, motivated people who want to do a good job.


Full Western Arc plus 77 isn't the worst install ... and you wouldn't have to go back far to see me suggesting it here as an option (either full arc being the minimum, adding 77 or 61.5 depending on where one's locals were). But anything else puts one outside of the box DISH works in. And when something bad happens, such as losing use of E8, DISH's reaction may not help customers installed outside of that box.

I'm fortunate that this doesn't affect me (I have full EA, my locals were already on 61.5 and - most importantly - I could reaim a satellite dish whenever needed). I'd probably be out there reaiming the 77 dish myself ... hoping that DISH didn't "fix" the satellite issue on Saturday night turning my Sunday in to another day needing reaiming.

At this point there is no telling how long it will take to get a fix for 77 in place.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Bill R said:


> I talked to quite a few of the installers that work in our area and they are, for the most part, knowledgeable, motivated people who want to do a good job. The problem is the (seemingly) sleazy gypsy company they work for. I agree that DISH needs to get more control over what their contractors do but it seems (to me) that nobody is "looking" at what goes on in parts of our area.


When I had mine converted to EA from 110/119/61.5 it was free because they had added my HD locals on 77. I requested when I setup the appointment (with Dish) to have EA installed and was given the typical "that will be up the installer, if they have a EA dish on the truck, etc." statement. When the installer showed up I told him I wanted EA, he said let me check, called Dish and within 5 minutes was putting together the EA dish. I don't know if I was just lucky, knowledgeable enough to convince them, "one of their most valued customers" or a combination of things but I didn't have to put up any kind of fight at all.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I just got an email from the Dish friend I originally posed my question for. He apparently tried to get a full EA dish when they first came out, and was told that they were only for new customers. He still can't get it installed now, since it will be "fixed soon." He's going to give them another week to fix the satellite and move things back, or he is going to tell them to set him up with EA, or he'll have to leave as a 10+ year customer.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

James Long,

I'm relatively new to Dish and have the full eastern arc in the Chicagoland area. Looking at many channels last night everything I typically watch seems to be there. I never really researched what satellites carry which programming. Do you have any idea which channels used to be on 77?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Mike109 said:


> James Long,
> 
> I'm relatively new to Dish and have the full eastern arc in the Chicagoland area. Looking at many channels last night everything I typically watch seems to be there. I never really researched what satellites carry which programming. Do you have any idea which channels used to be on 77?


Mostly what 77 had on it was locals, there may have been some other CONUS programming on it. Since you're on Eastern Arc in Chicagoland - you're OK - everything you need to watch will be on 61.5 or 72.7 .


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Agreed. 77 was all local markets except two transponders with DISH Latino package channels. The DISH Latino channels were restored to a transponder on 72.7 and most of the locals have moved to 72.7 or 61.5. The few markets that remain on 77 are within the footprint of the temporary satellite (E1).

Chicago locals were on 61.5 and were not affected by the shuffle. The only effect on a Chicago subscriber with EA would be the loss of 19 HD PPV channels (with 4 HD PPV remaining). Everything else should still be there.


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## fuzzface (Feb 2, 2011)

Here's the "story" I just got from a rep:


"I want to apologize for the confusion – a rare electrical anomaly has recently affected one of our satellites, as well as a neighboring satellite owned by another company. As a result, the satellite that provides your local channels in HD is temporarily unavailable. This is the only time in our history that something like this has occurred. We are working very hard to correct the issue as quickly as possible, and are hoping to have this resolved by the end of the week."


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

fuzzface said:


> Here's the "story" I just got from a rep:
> 
> "I want to apologize for the confusion - a rare electrical anomaly has recently affected one of our satellites, as well as a neighboring satellite owned by another company. As a result, the satellite that provides your local channels in HD is temporarily unavailable. This is the only time in our history that something like this has occurred. We are working very hard to correct the issue as quickly as possible, and are hoping to have this resolved by the end of the week."


The Venezuelan satellite at 78? 

EchoStar owns all three satellites at 77. The next closest would be AMC 2 and AMC 5 at 79. Odd answer ... but hopeful that by "the end of the week" we might see a fix.


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## peachead (Feb 2, 2011)

Called dish today and told them I was tired of loss of locals after talking to a couple of techs they let me set my own 1000.4. All channels up and best picture I have had in months.


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

James Long said:


> Agreed. 77 was all local markets except two transponders with DISH Latino package channels. The DISH Latino channels were restored to a transponder on 72.7 and most of the locals have moved to 72.7 or 61.5. The few markets that remain on 77 are within the footprint of the temporary satellite (E1).
> 
> Chicago locals were on 61.5 and were not affected by the shuffle. The only effect on a Chicago subscriber with EA would be the loss of 19 HD PPV channels (with 4 HD PPV remaining). Everything else should still be there.


Thanks for the information.


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## aa4wp (Apr 17, 2009)

I called Dish today. Girl said outage is widespread, and they don't know when it will be fixed. Also glad we have OTA, but will have to reschedule DVR events that we got on sat 77.

Wendell


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

I know this is slightly off-topic, but why would Dish consider purchasing DBSD? Ref Link: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/01/dish-network-offers-1-billion-to-buy-a-bankrupt-satellite-anten/

Is this potential purchase related to the 77 EA issues or just a coincidence?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

R0am3r said:


> I know this is slightly off-topic, but why would Dish consider purchasing DBSD? Ref Link: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/01/dish-network-offers-1-billion-to-buy-a-bankrupt-satellite-anten/
> 
> Is this potential purchase related to the 77 EA issues or just a coincidence?


See the press release and discussion here:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=189592

Coincidence. Evidently Charlie thought it would be a good investment. DISH has been loaning money to DBSD for years. He sees the potential in a turnaround.


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## fuzzface (Feb 2, 2011)

System info now shows 77 as green (no longer red with a white x) and system reports all good. Still no HD locals, but maybe this means some progress is being made.


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## Anifan (Feb 3, 2011)

lparsons21 said:


> For those that have the mixed pointing, why not just get the switch over to EA and you don't have to point and repoint. Dish has been pushing for 'pure' arcs for quite sometime now. Some of us payed to have them do it 'cause we wouldn't wait for the call to get it done for free.
> 
> It just seems to me that keeping a mixed setup is just asking for problems. Or is there some reason not to do it that I'm not aware of?


Yes. For some inexplicable reason here in the Charleston-Huntington, WV market SD locals are only available on 129 and HD locals were only on 77. Since I still have one old MPEG2 receiver I need a WA+77 set up to get locals on both receivers. Now HD locals have been moved to 61.5 and I'm stuck with just the SD locals from 127. I should probably just upgrade the second receiver and switch to EA, but I'm sure Dish having the locals split like that has a lot of people here stuck in this situation.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

fuzzface said:


> System info now shows 77 as green (no longer red with a white x) and system reports all good. Still no HD locals, but maybe this means some progress is being made.


I'm still getting no signals and a red X on System Info.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

fuzzface said:


> System info now shows 77 as green (no longer red with a white x) and system reports all good. Still no HD locals, but maybe this means some progress is being made.


Your HD locals (like mine) likely moved to another satellite. Mine moved to 61.5 and yours may have moved there or to 72.7. That is one of the problems having a wing dish for 77 and not the 1000.4 dish which gets you the entire arc (61.5, 72,7, and 77).

The latest script that the DISH CSRs are reading to customers is that the 77 degree problem will be fixed "by the end of the week". Everyday this week they have extended the time that it will take to fix the problem (on Monday it was "by the end of the day", same thing Tuesday) and it makes one wonder if they really have any solution to the problem.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

James Long said:


> I'm still getting no signals and a red X on System Info.


Update: My receiver is locking on to a signal on Transponders 14 and 16 !


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## jtiner (Jun 21, 2010)

James Long said:


> Update: My receiver is locking on to a signal on Transponders 14 and 16 !


Has there been any definitive word on exactly what happened (electronics failure on the spacecraft, positioning, etc.)?
I still didn't see 77 last night but I'll look again later.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

jtiner said:


> Has there been any definitive word on exactly what happened (electronics failure on the spacecraft, positioning, etc.)?
> 
> I still didn't see 77 last night but I'll look again later.


Not that I know of and that is part of the problem. Around here (wing dish) customers are starting to be REALLY P.O., not about the failure itself, but about the lack of information from DISH. I got an email this morning from a (local) friend who called DISH this morning and was offered a bunch of PPV coupons "for his patience". He was told the same thing that I posted yesterday - "the problem will be fixed by the end of the week". Because of all the hills in our area OTA reception is spotty (or non existence) for a lot of customers and the Super Bowl in HD may not be possible for them on Sunday unless the problem is fixed.

I am getting signals from the 77 degree satellite this morning and it does show "locked - Echostar 77 west" but I'm not sure it is from Echostar 8. I read a post in a news forum that Echostar 8 is still completely off line and any signal that we are seeing is from Echostar 1.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Channels moving back ...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2702602#post2702602


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## fuzzface (Feb 2, 2011)

Yep! Had the Springfield, MO HD locals back when I went home for lunch.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Signals from 77W in Bay Area using 1m/34" dish (somehow it show reversed frequencies, forgot to change the reverse order after using DP LNBF recently - on first graph you see odd tpns from 31 to 1, on second - even from 32 to 2)):


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

what software/device gives you that kind of diagnostics?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

tkrandall said:


> what software/device gives you that kind of diagnostics?


BLSA/BL2030 PCI board and SA.exe.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

From the look of the Uplink, Cincinnati hasn't moved back yet?


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> From the look of the Uplink, Cincinnati hasn't moved back yet?


 As of now the Cincy HD locals are still on 61.5.

It sure would be nice to know IF the channels are going to be moved back or IF we need to re-aim our wing dish.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Has there been any technical explanation for what caused the 77w problems?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

More moves back ... Including Cincy
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2703707#post2703707


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## TwoPhases (Jul 20, 2010)

That's great for all you Dish subscribers.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Filed Friday at the FCC ... not marked as granted:
EchoStar Corporation seeks Special Temporary Authority for 30 days to relocate EchoStar 6 to, and station it at, 76.95 W.L. See attached narrative. (PDF)​


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Thats a hell of a lot of paperwork to say "Can I move over a little bit and replace my own satellite" Interesting material though.


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## BigRedFan (Mar 28, 2010)

Two questions: 

1) Does the FCC "confirm" verbal grants (as requested in this filing) in writing and publicly ?... Or can we just assume they're kind of automatic based on past similar requests ?...

2) Will we get to see --through the Uplink Reports-- which transponders on E8 are being tested and thus, considered to be "unhealthy" ?...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

That letter No. SAT-T/C-20090217-00026 (Feb. 1, 2011) should explain what happened with E*8.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

P Smith said:


> That letter No. SAT-T/C-20090217-00026 (Feb. 1, 2011) should explain what happened with E*8.


Doesnt show up on the FCC site yet...at least I couldnt find it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> That letter No. SAT-T/C-20090217-00026 (Feb. 1, 2011) should explain what happened with E*8.


It is buried on the "other filings" page of the referenced filing in a PDF.


> EchoStar Corporation ("EchoStar") writes to notify the Commission that the EchoStar 8 satellite
> recently incurred a single event upset ("SEU") on the morning of January 30, 2011, which EchoStar
> believes was caused by increased space environment activity. The SEU caused the satellite to drift a
> few tenths of a degree west to 77.7° W.L., outside of the 77° W.L. orbital cluster assigned to Mexico
> ...


I suppose it is time to start tracking TLEs again. 

BTW: single event upset ("SEU")


> A single event upset (SEU) is a change of state caused by ions or electro-magnetic radiation striking a sensitive node in a micro-electronic device, such as in a microprocessor, semiconductor memory, or power transistors. The state change is a result of the free charge created by ionization in or close to an important node of a logic element (e.g. memory "bit"). The error in device output or operation caused as a result of the strike is called an SEU or a soft error. The SEU itself is not considered permanently damaging to the transistor's or circuits' functionality unlike the case of single event latchup (SEL), single event gate rupture (SEGR), or single event burnout (SEB). These are all examples of a general class of radiation effects in electronic devices called single event effects.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Nothing truly unexpected there.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Thanks James. When I clicked on other filings, it said None Found. Must have clicked on the wrong page or something. That FCC site is almost as confusing as the IRS site.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

As I seen spectrum Feb 3 the E8 functionality wasn't restored that time. Perhaps not just drift, but other issues with TWTA control ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> As I seen spectrum Feb 3 the E8 functionality wasn't restored that time. Perhaps not just drift, but other issues with TWTA control ?


DISH moved four transponders of locals back to E8 on February 3rd, and six more transponders were put to use on February 4th. Those even transponders certainly are not on E1 or E4.

This may explain why the temporary transponders at 72.7 and 61.5 have not been repopulated. It looks like they are still not sure that E8 is reliable (and want E6 there as backup). Or they may move channels off 77 for testing. It may also explain channel 9791 ... which may become a "fall back channel" similar to the use of 9950? back when DISH had non-network must carry locals on the wings. If 77 locals are moved to a location a customer doesn't have (for testing or emergency) that slate would appear (if they added the right info to the right descriptor). It should be fun to watch.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I'll try to catch new spectrums tomorrow ...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Epoch Sat Jan 29 23:54:12 EST

```
ECHOSTAR 8
1 27501U 02039A   11030.20431153 -.00000253  00000-0  10000-3 0  7312
2 27501 000.0377 255.8447 0002703 063.2362 166.5074 01.00269958 30959
```
Apogee 35798.36 Perigee 35775.57 Gap 22.79 Average 0.53 above Nominal
Satellite Longitude 77.0422 West (at Epoch)
Average Driftrate 0.0068 deg/day West

Epoch Thu Feb 3 06:16:59 EST

```
ECHOSTAR 8
1 27501U 02039A   11034.47013133 -.00000250  00000-0  10000-3 0  7327
2 27501 000.0138 241.7415 0000956 246.8782 097.0303 01.00269224 30999
```
Apogee 35791.20 Perigee 35783.14 Gap 8.06 Average 0.73 above Nominal
Satellite Longitude 76.8791 West (at Epoch)
Average Driftrate 0.0095 deg/day West

I'm surprised there were not more reports ... these are the last two TLEs for E8. (No changes for E6.)


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"76.8791 West" - still little off 77W


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> "76.8791 West" - still little off 77W


Pretty close ... and as of the Epoch last Thursday. It is drifting in the right direction.

Time elapsed since epoch: 68:12:47
Satellite Longitude 76.9060 West (at 02:29:47 EST Sunday using this TLE)
Average Driftrate 0.0095 deg/day West
Satellite Longitude in 24 hours: 76.9155 West


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

perhaps it will be at 77W sharp Monday


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Satellite Longitude 77.0000 West at 00:30:00 EST Wednesday using this TLE. 
It is just an estimate for when ... there will probably be another TLE before then.

I don't plan on watching TLEs for E8 ... E6 will be more interesting.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Reading the specs for E6, I assume that it cannot provide "complete" redundancy for E8 in case of future failure since it has no spotbeam capability. Even though Echostar seems to suggest that it can in the FCC document.

And can someone here explain (or maybe speculate) to one who's only been a DirecTV sub. why Dish chose to remain solely on the Ku band and not transition to the Ka for HD?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> And can someone here explain (or maybe speculate) to one who's only been a DirecTV sub. why Dish chose to remain solely on the Ku band and not transition to the Ka for HD?


I will speculate...Dish probably realized that KA band was very much more susceptible to rain fade than KU band, and chose to continue using KU, and going with the east/west arc setup, rather than the all in the middle on different bands setup of DirecTv.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> And can someone here explain (or maybe speculate) to one who's only been a DirecTV sub. why Dish chose to remain solely on the Ku band and not transition to the Ka for HD?


Ka isn't a magic bullet. DISH decided to stick with higher powered Ku DBS satellites. They have a few Ku BSS satellites that they use for internationals (118), business feeds and backhauls (121), and MDU/headend services (85). They also had plans to build Ka but have been able to lease Ku DBS slots for higher power satellites (allowing smaller, less complex dishes). Imagine DirecTV having their entire package, HD, SD and Spanish, on a Phase III dish.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> Ka isn't a magic bullet. DISH decided to stick with higher powered Ku DBS satellites. *They have a few Ku BSS satellites that they use for internationals (118), business feeds and backhauls (121), and MDU/headend services (85). *They also had plans to build Ka but have been able to lease Ku DBS slots for higher power satellites (allowing smaller, less complex dishes). Imagine DirecTV having their entire package, HD, SD and Spanish, on a Phase III dish.


Did you mean "Ka" in the above highlighted portion?

And by remaining on Ku is Dish limited to the FCC mandated standard of up to 32 24 MHz bandwidth transponders per orbital slot for DBS service?

If so I gather that by down-rezzing HD to 1440x1080i Dish can get by with the smaller bandwidth limitations of the Ku transponders?


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> If so I gather that by down-rezzing HD to 1440x1080i Dish can get by with the smaller bandwidth limitations the Ku transponders?


I thought when Dish switched from mpeg2 to mpeg4, the stopped downrezzing. I dont think that is accurate anymore.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> Did you mean "Ka" in the above highlighted portion?


No, I meant Ku. There are two bands of Ku that DISH uses ... one is the higher powered DBS band (12.2 to 12.7 GHz - although the rest of the world would call that BSS) and the second is the regular 2 degree separated Ku band (11.7 to 12.2 GHz - which I should have called FSS, fixed satellite service, in our region). Both are Ku with higher power permitted on the DBS/BSS band in our region.

Ka is a different band.



> And by remaining on Ku is Dish limited to the FCC mandated standard of up to 32 24 MHz bandwidth transponders per orbital slot for DBS service?


It is an ITU thing as well (international rules). There are standards that apply to each of the bands.



> If so I gather that by down-rezzing HD to 1440x1080i Dish can get by with the smaller bandwidth limitations of the Ku transponders?


Irrelevant to the band - DISH puts more HD per transponder on DBS satellites than they do on lower powered FSS satellites regardless of the compression techniques used.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Davenlr said:


> I thought when Dish switched from mpeg2 to mpeg4, the stopped downrezzing. I dont think that is accurate anymore.


It was still 1440x1080i as of last year as shown in the lengthy discussion here for example;

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2474767

Has that changed in the new year?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

James Long said:


> No, I meant Ku. There are two bands of Ku that DISH uses ... one is the higher powered DBS band (12.2 to 12.7 GHz - although the rest of the world would call that BSS) and the second is the regular 2 degree separated Ku band (11.7 to 12.2 GHz - which I should have called FSS, fixed satellite service, in our region). Both are Ku with higher power permitted on the DBS/BSS band in our region.
> 
> Ka is a different band.
> 
> ...


OK thanks James, I understand now;

However on the last part I said "bandwidth" not "band." As in does down-rezzing to 1440x1080i allow Dish to get by with the smaller 24 MHz Ku transponders?

For instance excepting the weird Spaceways, DirecTV uses 36 MHz wide transponders for their Ka (and forthcoming Reverse-DBS) band birds to permit full HD resolution of 1920x1080i.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> However on the last part I said "bandwidth" not "band."


We were discussing the band, not the bandwidth. This thread is supposed to be about the problems at 77 ... not an "everything that is wrong with DISH" thread ... so I answered your question based on the initial question of why DISH uses Ku instead of Ka - and compression is irrelevant to the band being used.



> For instance excepting the weird Spaceways, DirecTV uses 36 MHz wide transponders for their Ka (and forthcoming Reverse-DBS) band birds to permit full HD resolution of 1920x1080i.


Irrelevant. More MHz per transponder simply means more bandwidth be split. If DirecTV used 24 MHz transponders they could still do 1920x1080i ... they just might not be able to put five of them on the same transponder. 24 MHz is not a limiting factor. Using 36 MHz lowers the number of transponders that can fit in the licensed band. That may work for or against the provider depending on how spotbeams are arranged and the space needed. But there is no magic to Ka or 36 MHz transponders.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Alright, my apologies James;

There was absolutely no intent to start a any sort flame war about "what's wrong with Dish." Believe me I'm too old for it. 

Just had a few technical questions is all ...

Please feel free to delete all my prior posts in this thread here.

Thanks for the information anyhow.

Retreating to the DirecTV forums ...


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> Reading the specs for E6, I assume that it cannot provide "complete" redundancy for E8 in case of future failure since it has no spotbeam capability. Even though Echostar seems to suggest that it can in the FCC document.
> 
> And can someone here explain (or maybe speculate) to one who's only been a DirecTV sub. why Dish chose to remain solely on the Ku band and not transition to the Ka for HD?


The E-8 satellite wasn't using its spotbeams at 77 W so E-6 should be more than an adequate replacement for it. The E-8 spotbeams were designed for its original location at 110 W. For the Eastern Arc which uses MPEG-4, Dish could put both HD and SD channels on a single TP and optimize the bandwidth usage so the bandwidth size really isn't that much of a limiting factor. It should be noted that there is still a number of channels only broadcast in SD. As aside note on the movement of the E-6 satellite to 77 W. Once it gets to 77 W don't be surprised if Dish files a request to the FCC to move E-8 to 86.5 W to test it because that's where Dish wants to put it anyway.


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> Reading the specs for E6, I assume that it cannot provide "complete" redundancy for E8 in case of future failure since it has no spotbeam capability. Even though Echostar seems to suggest that it can in the FCC document.
> 
> And can someone here explain (or maybe speculate) to one who's only been a DirecTV sub. why Dish chose to remain solely on the Ku band and not transition to the Ka for HD?


Once upon a time E* had a satellite at 105 (SUPERDISH) that was supposed to do Ka for HD ..but that failed miserably


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

juan ellitinez said:


> Once upon a time E* had a satellite at 105 (SUPERDISH) that was supposed to do Ka for HD ..but that failed miserably


The SuperDISHes (121 and 105) were Ku FSS, not Ka. EchoStar still uses that space. 121 is used for business TV and backhauls, 105 is subleased for special feeds.

My locals (SD at the time) were originally on 105. I have one of those dishes in my garage.


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## kenglish (Oct 2, 2004)

I have to wonder what caused the satellite to move so suddenly...was there a (scheduled) corrective maneuver in progress at the time, and the "event" caused the thrusters to stay on longer than scheduled, or did something turn them on without warning?
Those outer-space electrons can do some weird things!


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Doesn't Dish have plans to put "reverse band BSS" up on each Arc? That is essentially Ka spectrum is it not?


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

tkrandall said:


> Doesn't Dish have plans to put "reverse band BSS" up on each Arc? That is essentially Ka spectrum is it not?


Reverse band DBS is still using the same frequencies Dish is now - you're just swapping polarities of the odd/ even transponders.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

tkrandall said:


> Doesn't Dish have plans to put "reverse band BSS" up on each Arc? *That is essentially Ka spectrum is it not?*


Nope, different frequency ranges: 12.2-12.7 vs 18-20 GHz


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## rocatman (Nov 28, 2003)

scooper said:


> Reverse band DBS is still using the same frequencies Dish is now - you're just swapping polarities of the odd/ even transponders.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe what is commonly called "reverse band DBS" or "DBS expanded band" uses the frequencies that are used for uplink for regular DBS as the downlink frequencies and vice versa. I believe DirecTV had a test payload on one of their recently launched satellites.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

scooper said:


> Reverse band DBS is still using the same frequencies Dish is now - *you're just swapping polarities of the odd/ even transponders*.


Nope, not polarity but freq ranges: DL vs UL.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Perhaps I had my terminology mixed up. I thought echostar had bid on licenses as noted, in part, here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2703619#post2703619

more info - sounds like 62w, 75w, and maybe 79w for EX-3, -4, and -5 (not sure which is which) for the eastern arc?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/172363-fcc-approves-echostar-bss-17ghz-79w.html

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...oves-e*-application-bss-75wl.html#post1747647

Are these "DBS expansion band" They would downlink in the 17 Ghz range would they not?

More discussion here, under "DBS expansion band"
http://www.echostaruser.com/satellites.php


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

rocatman said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe what is commonly called "reverse band DBS" or "DBS expanded band" uses the frequencies that are used for uplink for regular DBS as the downlink frequencies and vice versa. I believe DirecTV had a test payload on one of their recently launched satellites.


Normal DBS uplink band used as a downlink ... other bands used as an uplink.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=91174 for a mention here at DBSTalk.

http://www.itu.int/ituweblogs/treg/FCC+Seeks+Input+On+Reverse+DBS+Band+Rules+.aspx for more info from ITU.
17.3-17.1 and 24.75-25.25 GHz bands (400 MHz 17.3-17.1 being the Reverse DBS Downlink for the US)


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## SidDavis (Jan 31, 2011)

Is 77 putting out a signal?

I was on 77 for Springfield Mo. locals in HD. When they moved to 72.7 I called dishnetwork and they had me run a check switch and I was then receiving the Springfield Mo locals in HD over 72.7. It wasn't necessary to move my wing dish to get 72.7. Since they have moved these stations back to 77 I have not been able to get any signal from 77 on the "point dish" page of the installation menu.

On a call to dishnetwork they had me disconnect the satellite cable from the back of my receiver and run check switch which went through a long 50 step check. Then they had me reconnect and run check switch again, but I still was set up to receive 72.7 and not 77. I could never get a direct answer from them as to why I could not switch back to 77. They just gave me 10 PPV credits and said it should be back later Sunday, which it is not.

I have tried moving my dish up 2 degrees and west 4+ degrees where 77 should be in relationship to 72.7 and can find any signal with my receivers. I can easily move the dish back east and down and have little trouble finding 72.7 again just using the meter in the receiver.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SidDavis said:


> Is 77 putting out a signal?


Yes. E8 returned to service February 3rd with all the markets restored on February 4th.


> I have tried moving my dish up 2 degrees and west 4+ degrees where 77 should be in relationship to 72.7 and can find any signal with my receivers. I can easily move the dish back east and down and have little trouble finding 72.7 again just using the meter in the receiver.


You shouldn't have reaimed the dish. You said you got 72.7 without a reaim ... a simple checkswitch should have restored 77 to your receiver.

Are you using a 1000.4 dish for EA? What satellite locations show up on your check switch screen, and in what order? Conn-72-61.5?


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## SidDavis (Jan 31, 2011)

James Long said:


> Yes. E8 returned to service February 3rd with all the markets restored on February 4th.
> You shouldn't have reaimed the dish. You said you got 72.7 without a reaim ... a simple checkswitch should have restored 77 to your receiver.
> 
> Are you using a 1000.4 dish for EA? What satellite locations show up on your check switch screen, and in what order? Conn-72-61.5?


I have a dish 500 for the wing dish that has a dual lnb with the cable just hooked up to the 110 side; then that cable feeds into the input side of the 1000.4 dish. They show up on the check switch screen as (1) 119, (2) 110, (3) 129, (4) 72. Before I switched from 77 to 72 the 4th slot was 77.

I was guessing I had an aiming problem, but I can stand on my head, move the wing dish in any direction, and easily find 72.7 again just using one of the inside receivers by talking to my wife on my cell phone while I move the dish and she reads the meter on the receiver, but I just can't seem to get 77 which should be just adjacent to 72.7. I have ordered a cheap "satellite finder" meter and if that doesn't work, I suppose I will need to pay for a repoint.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Find 72 ... then keep the receiver point dish screen set on 72 on any even transponder 2-22. Then hunt for 77. When you find it you'll see "Wrong Satellite - 77".

Make sure you're using even transponders to find 77 ... unless you're far enough south you won't see the odd transponders ... and half of those are aimed at Mexico.

Once you have Wrong Satellite 77 there you can do your check switch and get back to normal. Hopefully the other half of the LNB won't pick up anything else that will confuse the setup (it sounds like you had the 500 aimed at 77 on one eye and 72 on the other).


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> Find 72 ... then keep the receiver point dish screen set on 72 on any even transponder 2-22. Then hunt for 77. When you find it you'll see "Wrong Satellite - 77".
> 
> Make sure you're using even transponders to find 77 ... unless you're far enough south you won't see the odd transponders ... and half of those are aimed at Mexico.
> 
> Once you have Wrong Satellite 77 there you can do your check switch and get back to normal. Hopefully the other half of the LNB won't pick up anything else that will confuse the setup (*it sounds like you had the 500 aimed at 77 on one eye and 72 on the other*).


That wouldn't be possible IMHO - D500's yoke w/out mod support sats 9 degree apart, but 77-72.7=4.3 degree - only half of needed.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> That wouldn't be possible IMHO - D500's yoke w/out mod support sats 9 degree apart, but 77-72.7=4.3 degree - only half of needed.


How big is the eye? How much of the sky can it see?

Twin LNBs are designed to pick up two 9 degree separated satellites whether they are used in Florida or Maine, Seattle or San Diego. The satellites are not always 9 degrees apart from the point of view of the LNB. That's why tweeners could be a problem. If dishes and LNBs are not designed to skip the middle satellite one could get two satellites on the same LNB (if the margin of error is too large).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

James Long said:


> Filed Friday at the FCC ... not marked as granted:
> EchoStar Corporation seeks Special Temporary Authority for 30 days to relocate EchoStar 6 to, and station it at, 76.95 W.L. See attached narrative. (PDF)​


Updated since I last looked:

Status Date: 02/04/2011	
Last Action: Grant of Authority

*Epoch Thu Feb 3 22:03:22 EST*

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11035.12734765 -.00000288  00000-0  10000-3 0  9780
2 26402 000.0665 262.7420 0003086 348.3063 227.0706 01.00269118 38687
```
Apogee 35800.22 Perigee 35774.19 Gap 26.02 Average 0.76 above Nominal
Average Driftrate 0.0099 deg/day West

*Epoch Sat Feb 5 19:00:00 EST*

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11037.00000000 -.00000240  00000-0  00000+0 0  9791
2 26402 000.0380 247.9220 0001108 305.4230 239.3800 00.99738534 38701
```
Apogee 35941.30 Perigee 35931.92 Gap 9.38 Average 150.17 above Nominal
Average Driftrate 1.9286 deg/day West

*Epoch Sat Feb 5 19:00:00 EST*

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11037.00000000 -.00000240  00000-0  10000-3 0  9808
2 26402 000.0380 247.9220 0001108 305.4230 239.3800 00.99738534 38701
```
Apogee 35941.30 Perigee 35931.92 Gap 9.38 Average 150.17 above Nominal
Average Driftrate 1.9286 deg/day West

*Epoch Mon Feb 7 14:12:00 EST*

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11038.80000000 -.00000218  00000-0  00000+0 0  9818
2 26402 000.0350 273.9410 0001871 035.3180 049.7450 00.99705689 38729
```
Apogee 35953.82 Perigee 35937.98 Gap 15.84 Average 159.46 above Nominal
Satellite Longitude 66.5442 West (at Epoch)
Average Driftrate 2.0479 deg/day West

*Epoch Mon Feb 7 16:56:34 EST*

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11038.91428426 -.00000219  00000-0  00000+0 0  9828
2 26402 000.0515 269.9997 0000179 048.9368 081.0856 00.99724269 38729
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 06:51:41 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35941.40 Perigee 35939.89 Gap 1.52 Average 154.21 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 66.7876 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 67.3537 West (at 23:48:15 EST Monday using this TLE)
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05
The satellite will reach the target on Saturday @ 8:05p EST following the TLE shown.

Average Driftrate 1.9804 deg/day West


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Help is on its way ...

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11039.25797094 -.00000216  00000-0  00000+0 0  9834
2 26402 000.0526 267.5705 0000223 296.6352 319.2106 00.99727945 38725
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 01:16:05 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35940.55 Perigee 35938.66 Gap 1.89 Average 153.17 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 67.4590 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 67.5629 West (at 02:27:34 EST Tuesday using this TLE)
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05
The satellite will reach the target on Saturday @ 8:59p EST following the TLE shown.

Average Driftrate 1.9670 deg/day West


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

They're not wasting much time - nearly 2 degrees /day.


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## ggotch5445 (Sep 27, 2009)

James Long said:


> Yes. E8 returned to service February 3rd with all the markets restored on February 4th.
> You shouldn't have reaimed the dish. You said you got 72.7 without a reaim ... a simple checkswitch should have restored 77 to your receiver.
> 
> Are you using a 1000.4 dish for EA? What satellite locations show up on your check switch screen, and in what order? Conn-72-61.5?


Looking at the point dish, and check switch functions, on my receiver, I see a signal coming from 77, but a system info look, reveals the red X for 77.

Reviewing my channel guide shows no missing channels, but none of the ones I looked at originate from 77.

Could it be that some of us are receiving all of our channels exclusive of 77?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11039.39231366 -.00000216  00000-0  00000+0 0  9856
2 26402 000.0488 260.8083 0000602 289.3266 021.5221 00.99732262 38720
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 07:46:51 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35940.93 Perigee 35935.84 Gap 5.09 Average 151.94 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 67.7111 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 68.3437 West (at 12:11:47 EST Tuesday using this TLE)
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05
The satellite will reach the target on Saturday @ 10:02p EST following the TLE shown.

Average Driftrate 1.9513 deg/day West


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ggotch5445 said:


> Looking at the point dish, and check switch functions, on my receiver, I see a signal coming from 77, but a system info look, reveals the red X for 77.
> 
> Reviewing my channel guide shows no missing channels, but none of the ones I looked at originate from 77.
> 
> Could it be that some of us are receiving all of our channels exclusive of 77?


There are only locals for a few markets on 77 ... unless your locals are there nothing you get should originate from 77. Missing channels for those with just an EA dish would be the HD PPVs (502-522; with 506, 508, 509 and 510 being the only ones available via EA). People with a mix of Eastern and Western arc signals will have different results.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Is there a reason that the only news story I can find on this is a German story that says the cause was "high energy ionizing radiation"? I'm not even sure what that means. Did someone zap it?:sure:


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

phrelin said:


> Is there a reason that the only news story I can find on this is a German story that says the cause was "high energy ionizing radiation"? I'm not even sure what that means. Did someone zap it?:sure:


Did you see the definition in the thread above?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_event_upset


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

James Long said:


> Did you see the definition in the thread above?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_event_upset


Sorry. Somehow I missed post #124.

Thanks for the reference as it helps me to understand just how fragile our communications systems are. And hope others who knew all about this stuff will forgive my ruminations here in this post, but....

As I understand it what we have here is a random "change of state caused by ions or electro-magnetic radiation striking a sensitive node in a micro-electronic device, such as in a microprocessor, semiconductor memory, or power transistors" in an extremely sophisticated satellite such as virtually all of our communications satellites, not just one providing TV signals.

And according to the Wikipedia article you provided the link to:


> In space, high energy ionizing particles exist as part of the natural background, referred to as galactic cosmic rays (GCR). Solar particle events and high energy protons trapped in the Earth's magnetosphere (Van Allen radiation belts) exacerbate the problem. The high energies associated with the phenomenon in the space particle environment generally render increased spacecraft shielding useless in terms of eliminating SEU and catastrophic single event phenomena (e.g. destructive latch-up). Secondary atmospheric neutrons generated by cosmic rays can also be of energies capable of producing SEUs in electronics on aircraft flights over the poles or at high altitude.


And according to another Wikipedia article linked from that one (_*emphasis*_ added):


> Radiation hardening is a method of designing and testing electronic components and systems to make them resistant to damage or malfunctions caused by ionizing radiation (particle radiation and high-energy electromagnetic radiation), such as would be encountered in outer space, high-altitude flight, around nuclear reactors, particle accelerators, or during nuclear accidents or nuclear warfare.
> 
> Most radiation-hardened chips are based on their commercial equivalents, with some manufacturing and design variations that reduce the susceptibility to interference from electromagnetic radiation. Due to the extensive development and testing required to produce a radiation-tolerant design of a microelectronic chip, radiation-hardened chips tend to lag behind the cutting-edge of developments.
> 
> ...


So if I didn't have enough to worry about, apparently the best hardening techniques are mostly used by the military while my being able to watch TV or pay by credit card at the gas station is likely to become more and more vulnerable as sunspot activity increases?:eek2:


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Good, real world way to say it , but yes..


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

Perhaps they should go back to using vacuum tubes in satellites.


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## ash (Feb 15, 2004)

I tried to use a PPV coupon for one of the HD movies located on these missing channels from my guide. Once I activated it I realized that the channels are no longer there. I called Dish and they credited the coupon back to my account. Do you know if these PPV channels are coming back since the coupons can't be used with Dish On Demand .


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ash said:


> I tried to use a PPV coupon for one of the HD movies located on these missing channels from my guide. Once I activated it I realized that the channels are no longer there. I called Dish and they credited the coupon back to my account. Do you know if these PPV channels are coming back since the coupons can't be used with Dish On Demand .


Based on the satellite move I'd expect to see them back next week.


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## SidDavis (Jan 31, 2011)

James Long said:


> Find 72 ... then keep the receiver point dish screen set on 72 on any even transponder 2-22. Then hunt for 77. When you find it you'll see "Wrong Satellite - 77".
> 
> Make sure you're using even transponders to find 77 ... unless you're far enough south you won't see the odd transponders ... and half of those are aimed at Mexico.
> 
> Once you have Wrong Satellite 77 there you can do your check switch and get back to normal. Hopefully the other half of the LNB won't pick up anything else that will confuse the setup (it sounds like you had the 500 aimed at 77 on one eye and 72 on the other).


That did the trick. It was almost too easy. THANKS.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Cruising past 72 ...

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11041.16919014 -.00000199  00000-0  00000+0 0  9868
2 26402 000.0455 261.0018 0000651 288.0692 300.5659 00.99732509 38749
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 03:36:32 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35941.07 Perigee 35935.56 Gap 5.51 Average 151.87 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 71.1662 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 71.4595 West (at 02:40:10 EST Thursday using this TLE)
Satellite Longitude in 24 hours: 73.4100 West
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05
The satellite will reach the target on Saturday @ 10:13p EST following the TLE shown.
(Note: It will need to slow down, so actual arrival will be later than this estimate.)

Average Driftrate 1.9504 deg/day West


----------



## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

I see mention of 72 and 72.7. I'm on the eastern arc & my DVR lists 77, 72 & 61.5. What is on 72.7?


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

72.7 is 72.7, or what you see as 72. What is on 72.7....all your HD.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

levibluewa said:


> 72.7 is 72.7, or what you see as 72. What is on 72.7....all your HD.


A fair portion of it, at least. There was more HD on 72 (aka 72.7) before the problem on January 30th. Several channels were moved to 61.5 temporarily and several HD PPVs were temporarily removed.

After the satellite dance is completed DISH will be moving more HD off of 61.5 to 72.7 (they were starting the moves before the problem on January 30th). People with 61.5-72-77 will continue to receive the channels without issue (along with people with 119-110-129).


----------



## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

James Long said:


> A fair portion of it, at least. There was more HD on 72 (aka 72.7) before the problem on January 30th. Several channels were moved to 61.5 temporarily and several HD PPVs were temporarily removed.
> 
> After the satellite dance is completed DISH will be moving more HD off of 61.5 to 72.7 (they were starting the moves before the problem on January 30th). People with 61.5-72-77 will continue to receive the channels without issue (along with people with 119-110-129).


Which leads me to wonder. I have a goofy split system with 110, 119 (129 is behind the trees), 72.7 and 61.5, but of course no 77. It would seem that the 110/119 and 61.5/72.7 satellites are simply providing duplicate channels. My locals come from 61.5 so I have no need for 77 or 129 - as far as I can tell. In fact, I'm wondering if I still need the 110/119 dish.

Would it be worth contacting Dish to get this cleaned up or should I just leave well enough alone? It all seems to be working just fine as is.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JWKessler said:


> Which leads me to wonder. I have a goofy split system with 110, 119 (129 is behind the trees), 72.7 and 61.5, but of course no 77. It would seem that the 110/119 and 61.5/72.7 satellites are simply providing duplicate channels. My locals come from 61.5 so I have no need for 77 or 129 - as far as I can tell. In fact, I'm wondering if I still need the 110/119 dish.
> 
> Would it be worth contacting Dish to get this cleaned up or should I just leave well enough alone? It all seems to be working just fine as is.


There are no guarantees, but not having 77 shouldn't be a problem unless one's locals are there. Your HD locals are already on 61.5 so a 61.5/72.7 setup should be enough. The only reason I see to keep 110/119 would be for older SD receivers or if you wanted SD versions of your HD locals.


----------



## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

JWKessler said:


> Which leads me to wonder. I have a goofy split system with 110, 119 (129 is behind the trees), 72.7 and 61.5, but of course no 77. It would seem that the 110/119 and 61.5/72.7 satellites are simply providing duplicate channels. My locals come from 61.5 so I have no need for 77 or 129 - as far as I can tell. In fact, I'm wondering if I still need the 110/119 dish.
> 
> Would it be worth contacting Dish to get this cleaned up or should I just leave well enough alone? It all seems to be working just fine as is.


If all your receivers are VIP models - I see no reason for 110/119


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

scooper said:


> If all your receivers are VIP models - I see no reason for 110/119


Unless, of course, one of those other satellites goes down....


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## levibluewa (Aug 13, 2005)

Is the plan to move everything off 77 to E6 when it arrives? a permanent or temporary move...and do you have any idea what the footprint will look like...will it be adjusted to match the current 77 footprint. 

Thanks in advance.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

levibluewa said:


> Is the plan to move everything off 77 to E6 when it arrives? a permanent or temporary move...and do you have any idea what the footprint will look like...will it be adjusted to match the current 77 footprint.


The footprint is in the PDF linked earlier in the thread - it is full ConUS:


James Long said:


> See attached narrative. (PDF)


DISH has not put anything back on most of the 61.5 and 72.7 transponders ... so it is possible that they will offload E8 (with people with just 77 dishes losing their locals temporarily) while they test. I don't know their plans. I only know what they do when they do it.


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## R0am3r (Sep 20, 2008)

James Long said:


> A fair portion of it, at least. There was more HD on 72 (aka 72.7) before the problem on January 30th. Several channels were moved to 61.5 temporarily and several HD PPVs were temporarily removed.
> 
> After the satellite dance is completed DISH will be moving more HD off of 61.5 to 72.7 (they were starting the moves before the problem on January 30th). People with 61.5-72-77 will continue to receive the channels without issue (along with people with 119-110-129).


Are the locals on the 61.5 satellite spot beams like D* uses or are they really national transponders? I live in the Syracuse NY DMA and wonder if I could 'see' the SYR locals around the eastern US.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

R0am3r said:


> Are the locals on the 61.5 satellite spot beams like D* uses or are they really national transponders? I live in the Syracuse NY DMA and wonder if I could 'see' the SYR locals around the eastern US.


On 61.5 eight transponders are used to feed 59 spot beams. Three ConUS transponders are also used for locals for the following markets:
* Bangor, ME
* Rochester, NY
* Traverse City, MI
* Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, PA

Syracuse, NY, is on a spotbeam - The spotbeam is numbered 3 on the map below:


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## JWKessler (Jun 3, 2004)

phrelin said:


> Unless, of course, one of those other satellites goes down....


I suppose they do serve as a sort of spare tire. I wonder why the installers did that in the first place. They initially gave me a 110/119/61.5 install. When the new HD popped up on 72.7 they came back out and added a third dish and put in the bigger switch. It seems like a lot of extra work and expense to get to a half solution.

I only have one receiver and it is a VIP722.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

JWKessler said:


> I suppose they do serve as a sort of spare tire. I wonder why the installers did that in the first place. They initially gave me a 110/119/61.5 install. When the new HD popped up on 72.7 they came back out and added a third dish and put in the bigger switch. It seems like a lot of extra work and expense to get to a half solution.


A single Dish 500 aimed at 61.5 and 72.7 would be enough. In the order installed I can understand how an installer would get to what you have one fix at a time - especially if there are LOS issues.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11042.25704131 -.00000190  00000-0  00000+0 0  9873
2 26402 000.0451 262.6541 0000661 290.8880 326.6878 00.99732835 38759
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 01:05:52 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35941.02 Perigee 35935.42 Gap 5.59 Average 151.78 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 73.2693 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 73.3585 West (at 02:16:00 EST Friday using this TLE)
Satellite Longitude in 24 hours: 75.3077 West
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05
The satellite will reach the target on Saturday @ 10:29p EST following the TLE shown.

Average Driftrate 1.9493 deg/day West


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Getting closer ...

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11043.38208513 -.00000181  00000-0  00000+0 0  9882
2 26402 000.0439 265.6973 0000651 287.8183 010.6543 00.99732425 38763
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 11:12:27 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35941.09 Perigee 35935.58 Gap 5.51 Average 151.90 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 75.4521 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 76.3631 West (at 15:22:39 EST Saturday using this TLE)
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05
The satellite will reach the target on Saturday @ 10:35p EST following the TLE shown.

Average Driftrate 1.9507 deg/day West


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Tonight ?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Tonight ?


Perhaps ... it still needs to be slowed to a stop and parked between satellites at 76.85 (E4 junk) and 77.05 (E8 moved). (E1 is at 71.15.)

Tonight, tonight or early tomorrow.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

In the right neighborhood ...
I suspect there is a more up to date TLE that has not yet arrived.

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11045.17236608 -.00000167  00000-0  00000+0 0  9892
2 26402 000.0407 266.2680 0000702 287.4792 293.2094 00.99731868 38781
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 11:33:21 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35941.47 Perigee 35935.52 Gap 5.94 Average 152.06 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 78.9344 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 79.8746 West (at 10:41:33 EST Monday using this TLE)
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05

The satellite was reported moving away from the target.
Average Driftrate 1.9528 deg/day West


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

```
ECHOSTAR 6
1 26402U 00038A   11046.50021861 -.00000246  00000-0  00000+0 0  9925
2 26402 000.0563 258.3193 0001936 147.5967 202.3210 01.00271562 38790
```
Time elapsed since epoch: 04:13:00 (Calculations done at epoch unless noted)

Apogee 35794.68 Perigee 35778.35 Gap 16.33 Average 0.08 above Nominal

Satellite Longitude 76.9883 West (at Epoch)
Satellite Longitude 76.9885 West (at 11:13:19 EST Tuesday using this TLE)
Target Longitude 76.95 West +/-0.05 (Satellite is in box)

Average Driftrate 0.0011 deg/day West


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Yesterday I saw much more even transponders at 77W (full report been sent to Lyngsat).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Yesterday I saw much more even transponders at 77W (full report been sent to Lyngsat).


The TLEs are sometimes behind. I assumed that E6 was there and DISH was confident when they restored the PPV channels.

Up until the restoration of the PPVs they could have emptied E8 in minutes to the still vacant temporary transponders at 61.5 and 72.7 if there were further problems. With the PPVs restored DISH would have to drop them to make room. With E6 in place DISH would be less worried about another sudden problem with E8.

Hopefully we will see some channel shuffling getting rid of the 9 HDs per transponder on Eastern Arc. Then again ... if that level of compression worked it may foreshadow changes on Western Arc. I'm hoping for less than 9 HDs per transponder.


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## Juanjo (Feb 1, 2011)

"James Long" said:


> The TLEs are sometimes behind. I assumed that E6 was there and DISH was confident when they restored the PPV channels.
> 
> Up until the restoration of the PPVs they could have emptied E8 in minutes to the still vacant temporary transponders at 61.5 and 72.7 if there were further problems. With the PPVs restored DISH would have to drop them to make room. With E6 in place DISH would be less worried about another sudden problem with E8.
> 
> Hopefully we will see some channel shuffling getting rid of the 9 HDs per transponder on Eastern Arc. Then again ... if that level of compression worked it may foreshadow changes on Western Arc. I'm hoping for less than 9 HDs per transponder.


James, do you know why the signal strength on the odd transponders on 77 were showing such low numbers today.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

bad weather


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Juanjo said:


> James, do you know why the signal strength on the odd transponders on 77 were showing such low numbers today.


It looks like they have moved the US transponders back to E8 or over to E6.
The footprint is more northern than E1's US footprint (E6 is basically the same as E8).


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## Juanjo (Feb 1, 2011)

"James Long" said:


> It looks like they have moved the US transponders back to E8 or over to E6.
> The footprint is more northern than E1's US footprint (E6 is basically the same as E8).


So the signal strengths we are getting now will be the ones to stay moving forward


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## Juanjo (Feb 1, 2011)

"Juanjo" said:


> So the signal strengths we are getting now will be the ones to stay moving forward


Why were the odd Tp signal so high then? Were they not actually coming from 77 west


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Juanjo said:


> So the signal strengths we are getting now will be the ones to stay moving forward


Until the end of the year when the planned replacement satellite arrives, yes.

Footprints have not been released for QuetzSat-1 ... but the expectation is that all US locals will move to spotbeams. The new satellite is (as is the current satellites) intended to serve two markets --- the US and Mexico. Current use is for locals in the US (must be in the local's market to subscribe) or the DISH Mexico service in Mexico (must be in Mexico to subscribe).



Juanjo said:


> Why were the odd Tp signal so high then? Were they not actually coming from 77 west


DISH was temporarily using transponders on E1 ... which is generally aimed at Mexico although there is a US pattern. (For example, I'm too far north to use either of E1's pattern but can use E8's and E6's.)

77 West is an orbital location, not a specific satellite. Any of the satellites at that location can provide a signal (within the limits of the design and health of the satellite) that is seen as one location for us to aim our dishes at. Coverage from each satellite at the same location can vary.


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## DaveM (Feb 16, 2011)

James Long said:


> Hopefully we will see some channel shuffling getting rid of the 9 HDs per transponder on Eastern Arc. Then again ... if that level of compression worked it may foreshadow changes on Western Arc. I'm hoping for less than 9 HDs per transponder.


I'm not so sure it is working. Motion and other compression artifacts seem somewhat worse to my eyes since the "event" on 77 and subsequent extra cramming on 61.5 and 72.7. In fact, in my humble opinion, MGM HD (which was sort of teetering on the edge before all of this in terms of artifacts anyway) looks one of the worst of the bunch -- even more noticeably softer than before the shift and with more blotchiness in dark scenes, increased motion artifacts during camera pans and fast movement, etc. Probably not so coincidentally, it also happens to be on the one EA transponder that has the dreaded 10 channels on it.

Let me ask you this, James, is there somewhere within the DISH tech structure that a person could express concern in hopes of convincing them that this 9-10 HD channel thing per Eastern Arc transponder might not be such a good idea? Or, do you think they're pretty much going to do what they want to do anyway, now that they've already given it a go?

I know I'm just one voice, but... 

Thanks for all that you do!
(from a long-time lurker),
DM


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DaveM said:


> Let me ask you this, James, is there somewhere within the DISH tech structure that a person could express concern in hopes of convincing them that this 9-10 HD channel thing per Eastern Arc transponder might not be such a good idea? Or, do you think they're pretty much going to do what they want to do anyway, now that they've already given it a go?


I'm hoping that they won't try 9 on a regular basis ... but I'm not hopeful. They need to create some space on Western Arc or they are basically done adding channels (with no new capacity in sight). Eastern Arc has plenty of room and they should be able to go back to 8 without capacity problems.

If you have specific issue with the quality of a channel (any channel) the email address is [email protected] . I would be as specific as possible with the issues you personally see - channels, times, programs and satellite setup (Eastern Arc, installed date, signal level is good). I'd stay away from the "I heard on the Internet that you're transmitting 9 HD channels per transponder - that sucks" type of complaint.

Hopefully DISH has already heard from customers or is monitoring themselves and looking forward to going back to a maximum of 8 (they did go back to 8 on the RSN transponder so I assume they got complaints). I'll be a lot happier after see the channels shuffle back to 8 in an uplink report.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The DISH Latino channels on Eastern Arc just moved from a single transponder on 72.7 to two transponders on 77 ... that is a good sign. 

Only one transponder used before 1-30 has not been restored to service.


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## BigRedFan (Mar 28, 2010)

James Long said:


> I'm hoping that they won't try 9 on a regular basis ... but I'm not hopeful. They need to create some space on Western Arc or they are basically done adding channels (with no new capacity in sight). Eastern Arc has plenty of room and they should be able to go back to 8 without capacity problems.
> 
> If you have specific issue with the quality of a channel (any channel) the email address is [email protected] . I would be as specific as possible with the issues you personally see - channels, times, programs and satellite setup (Eastern Arc, installed date, signal level is good). I'd stay away from the "I heard on the Internet that you're transmitting 9 HD channels per transponder - that sucks" type of complaint.
> 
> Hopefully DISH has already heard from customers or is monitoring themselves and looking forward to going back to a maximum of 8 (they did go back to 8 on the RSN transponder so I assume they got complaints). I'll be a lot happier after see the channels shuffle back to 8 in an uplink report.


If DISH were to increase the HD number to 9 per transponder in the Western Arc, do we know what would be the maximum number of HD channels they'd be able to add ?.... Just wondering if the number is large enough to justify this action (in their minds) ....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BigRedFan said:


> If DISH were to increase the HD number to 9 per transponder in the Western Arc, do we know what would be the maximum number of HD channels they'd be able to add ?.... Just wondering if the number is large enough to justify this action (in their minds) ....


DISH currently uses 19 transponders on Western Arc for HD, transmitting 143 HD channels (including 12 channels set aside for HD RSNs; one that is shared between channel 101 DNFYI, 454 HD PPV and 9465 Dallas Mavericks; and 130 dedicated 24/7 feeds). At 8 HDs per transponder that leaves them room for 9 new channel additions. Going to 9 HDs per transponder could open up room for 19 additional channel additions (28 total).


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## BigRedFan (Mar 28, 2010)

James Long said:


> DISH currently uses 19 transponders on Western Arc for HD, transmitting 143 HD channels (including 12 channels set aside for HD RSNs; one that is shared between channel 101 DNFYI, 454 HD PPV and 9465 Dallas Mavericks; and 130 dedicated 24/7 feeds). At 8 HDs per transponder that leaves them room for 9 new channel additions. Going to 9 HDs per transponder could open up room for 19 additional channel additions (28 total).


To seriously sacrifice HD PQ for just 19 more HD channels would not make sense to me...

However, during the Spring 2010 Charlie Chat there was a Skype question asked to Charlie about 24/7 HD RSN's... He answered that within a year (by Spring 2011) we'd be seeing full-time HD RSN's.... At that time, we were all left wondering how they were going to do this...

Perhaps--- unfortunately--- we may now have the answer, ie. increasing the number of HD channels per transponder for both Arcs.... Otherwise, how is DISH going to keep this (public) promise ?....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BigRedFan said:


> Otherwise, how is DISH going to keep this (public) promise ?....


I'll let you know after DISH adds the channel 213 regional/local weather promised per a press release last June ... or the real Weather on the 8's promised many years ago (not the press select to run an app on the SD channel ... a real automatic app like DirecTV has) ... or when they explain what happened to Paladia which "replaced" Fuse per a press release last year until subscribers were told it was just a free preview.

RSNs are probably a more important promise ... but it would not be the first one to be forgotten. :eek2:


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## BigRedFan (Mar 28, 2010)

James Long said:


> I'll let you know after DISH adds the channel 213 regional/local weather promised per a press release last June ... or the real Weather on the 8's promised many years ago (not the press select to run an app on the SD channel ... a real automatic app like DirecTV has) ... or when they explain what happened to Paladia which "replaced" Fuse per a press release last year until subscribers were told it was just a free preview.
> 
> RSNs are probably a more important promise ... but it would not be the first one to be forgotten. :eek2:


Yeah, these are indeed sad facts for such a large and prominent company...

Nonetheless, with your math of only 9 HD slots left, if you deduct the 4 dropped Disney HD channels which in theory they should be protecting for a future return, then all DISH really has is 5 HD slots left for new HD...

Unless they do something draconian (such as squeezing more HD's per transponder) I don't see how they can compete (against DTV and cable) with a future HD growth potential of only 5 slots... Am I missing something here ?.....

By the way, I thought the regional weather channels on 213 and local weather on the 8's were supposed to come from spotbeam transponders, not CONUS transponders...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

BigRedFan said:


> By the way, I thought the regional weather channels on 213 and local weather on the 8's were supposed to come from spotbeam transponders, not CONUS transponders...


The "on the 8's" could be a data feed with the video created by the receiver. Every receiver back to the 301/501 should be able to do the overlay.

I don't care where channel 213 comes from or how granular it is (number of regions) ... it could even be SD ... all that matters is they were promised, in writing, and the channels never appeared. But that's a rant for another thread.


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## Juanjo (Feb 1, 2011)

"James Long" said:


> DISH currently uses 19 transponders on Western Arc for HD, transmitting 143 HD channels (including 12 channels set aside for HD RSNs; one that is shared between channel 101 DNFYI, 454 HD PPV and 9465 Dallas Mavericks; and 130 dedicated 24/7 feeds). At 8 HDs per transponder that leaves them room for 9 new channel additions. Going to 9 HDs per transponder could open up room for 19 additional channel additions (28 total).


James, why is the channel listing for orbital 77 from your uplink activity center different than the one on lyngsat. Which one is more updated?


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## DaveM (Feb 16, 2011)

James Long said:


> I'm hoping that they won't try 9 on a regular basis ... but I'm not hopeful.


Unless something shakes out differently, and unless I'm reading it incorrectly, solely judging by the (still testing) hi-def move-backs/fill-ins today to both 18 and 27 on 72.7, it appears that they are indeed going for nine channels per transponder on EA. Is this what you're seeing too with your new data, James?

Oh well, if true...why am I not surprised?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Juanjo said:


> James, why is the channel listing for orbital 77 from your uplink activity center different than the one on lyngsat. Which one is more updated?


Christian posting our reports with 2 days delay at least (10 day now, after his vacation).

Uplink activity reports coming here in REAL TIME practically.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Juanjo said:


> James, why is the channel listing for orbital 77 from your uplink activity center different than the one on lyngsat. Which one is more updated?


Mine is accurate. Some of the channel names could use help (especially affiliations for local channels) but the pages in my Uplink Center are created from scratch every morning (and refreshed if there are major changes) ... so where you see a date on LyngSat that may be from last year or before the date on my pages (at the bottom) is today. (Pages outside the Uplink Center part of the site are updated manually.)



DaveM said:


> Unless something shakes out differently, and unless I'm reading it incorrectly, solely judging by the (still testing) hi-def move-backs/fill-ins today to both 18 and 27 on 72.7, it appears that they are indeed going for nine channels per transponder on EA. Is this what you're seeing too with your new data, James?


The worst offender is the 10 HD PPVs on 72.7 transponder 12 - although they did stick with 7 HD PPVs and a test channel on transponder 16.


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## rjruby (Dec 29, 2002)

Would the problems with 77 cause all of my receivers to report a drift of +14 for its LNB on my 1000.4 dish?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

rjruby said:


> Would the problems with 77 cause all of my receivers to report a drift of +14 for its LNB on my 1000.4 dish?


Nope.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

rjruby said:


> Would the problems with 77 cause all of my receivers to report a drift of +14 for its LNB on my 1000.4 dish?


No. From the number it looks like one of your LNBs just went bad.


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## rjruby (Dec 29, 2002)

Bill R said:


> No. From the number it looks like one of your LNBs just went bad.


I have all of my channels and the signal strenghts on all of the 77 transponders are in the 45 to 60 range.

I only get the message when I select MENU-6-1-3 for System Info on all of my receivers (211, 211k, 622). I've never seen any other message displayed on any of the receivers.

If you look at the attached "Local Oscillator Drift LNB Replacement" document from Dish its states:

*NOTE: If the LNB Drift is greater than +/- 12.00 MHz, and the system is functioning properly, this may indicate a false reading and should be ignored. NO LNB REPLACEMENT IS REQUIRED.*

Maybe I don't really have a problem.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Good to see original dish paper from year 2007.

I would check a log of signal outage before final conclusion.

For me is best part of the document is:



> If any of the LNB Drift values are equal to or greater than +/- 5.00, REPLACE the LNBF to prevent a possible future Trouble Call.


A couple years before when the doc came here first time, someone told us dish voluntary changed their policy (made 'spoken' rule) and raise the plank to +/-8 Mhz.


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## thomasjk (Jan 10, 2006)

Bill R said:


> No. From the number it looks like one of your LNBs just went bad.


I'm not so sure that the 77 outage doesn't contribute to this issue. I was seeing significant LNB Drift( +15) on 77 shortly after the problem developed. Now that Dish is moving things back and re-activating transponders, I no longer see any drift. I plan to check this periodically but the SYSINFO 1 screen now shows no LNB drift.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

thomasjk said:


> I'm not so sure that the 77 outage doesn't contribute to this issue. I was seeing significant LNB Drift( +15) on 77 shortly after the problem developed. Now that Dish is moving things back and re-activating transponders, I no longer see any drift. I plan to check this periodically but the SYSINFO 1 screen now shows no LNB drift.


At the time the question was asked the content had moved back to a better satellite.

What you were seeing shortly after the problem developed was a temporary satellite.


----------

