# Ladies and Gentlemen, it finally has happened to me!



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Well, the good news is that this may be the step necessary in getting this damn problem fixed. At least I really hope that it's the step that's necessary...

Tonight, a weekly timer firing to record Tilt off of ESPN-HD for me, a timer that has successfully fired for the last 7 or 8 weeks in a row successfully, caused all of my recorded content (24 hours, 35 minutes of HD) to be deleted. Gone. Poof. 

Yippee...

I'm now left with an "Unknown Recorded Event" entry in the DVR list. I've been raising holy hell with them about this particular issue. Now that it's happened to me, by the time I'm done ripping though them, they're going to wish they'd never heard of me...to the point that they'll wish they'd never bothered to cross the pond to settle this country. 

This WILL end now.


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## UT_Texan (Dec 9, 2004)

you go Mark, Sorry it happened to you but sure hope this gets things moving!


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Welcome to the club Mark!

I'm sorry it happened to you, however, I hope your case will prove to be useful!

So, in your case, do you send in a failed machine so they can do an autopsy, or was there some way you could tell them to reproduce it?


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## chuckbernard (Aug 3, 2004)

Well I found a way to fix that problem and every other one I'm having with the 921. I just spent $758 for a HR10-250 and will be switching the dark side as soon as it arrives. I spent months and months collecting just the right programming for future viewing pleasure. It all vanished in a matter of seconds. Plus programs that I really wanted to watch, are gone and I'll never see them.

That was the final straw. Yep, I wasted $1000 but at some point I had to give up.


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## passing_ships (Aug 1, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> This WILL end now.


Are you truly that powerful, o mighty wizard?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Uh OH! That hasn't happend to me since last summer. Now will I be next or will it happen to Bob Murdock? IS he the one who hasn't had a single bug with the 921?
Mark since your software is not L212, it looks like this is indiginous to the 921 base code that they aren't messing with, unless... it happened because you exceeded your partition space while recording! Seems to me I was recording an event where the recording didn't quit, then when full, the hard drive got wiped clean last summer but that was a while back when it happened so my memory is not clear on the specifics. Just speculating!

chuckbernard- Do yourself a favor and go do some homework on a website weakknees.com See how we live on the Dark side with 77 hours of HD record time and then swap the drives with another 77 hours.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I'm pretty sure that at least in my case here this was caused by the auto-delete mechanism going haywire when it was clearing the necessary space for my timer to fire. I'm waiting now to hear what they want me to do, but I suspect that my 921 will end up in one of the engineer's hands in Denver.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

When you first called, did you get the "gee, nobody's ever told us about THAT before" line?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I don't have to call...one of the (few) advantages of being me...


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

I guess from your posts, the best way to keep from happening is to make sure there is enougth free space for your events to record. Don't rely on the autodelete feature or you will be sorry.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

That may be. I don't have enough information to confirm or deny unfortunately.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Did all the people who experienced the HDD wipe have full hard drives?


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## cschlik (Jan 27, 2003)

Mine was not full. I have about 20 hours of SD time left.... Mine happened after trying to watch an HD OTA recording.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

cschlik-

From the work done by others in their attempts to create a procedure for hard drive cloning on the 921 it was determined that the 2 hour play buffer for watching live is on a separate disk partition than the normal recordings you make that represent the 25 hours of HDTV record capacity of the 921. I believe there are actually 5 partitions on that hard drive. The 25 hours is one, the 2 hour live buffer another, and the operating systems, backup operating system, should the downloads go nuts, and something else I can't recall on the 5th partition, probably the guide stuff. With separate drive partitions, it seems unlikely that reaching full capacity would be affected by the watch live buffer. However, I do believe that in my case the timer record that didn't shut down may have triggered a reach full state on the partition for the 25 hours of HD capacity and that auto delete is not functioning properly. This sounds like the same scenario that Mark experienced. 

My current 921 status is that I have left all my OTA and Sat record timers alone and they have been doing fine through the past 3 months. ( The funny thing is some of those timers are so old that they record today different programming that I originally set them up for.) I go in weekly and check them, deleting the programs to maintain a free capacity between 10 and 20 hours. I only have about 4-5 hours of stuff I want to keep that I wasn't able to record on my TIVO which has archival capability. In this respect, of timers firing and recording my 921 has performed without error for about a half year now. It was just too bad that the jitters made watching those recordings intolerable. Glad those are gone now!


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> Uh OH! That hasn't happend to me since last summer. Now will I be next or will it happen to Bob Murdock? IS he the one who hasn't had a single bug with the 921?
> Mark since your software is not L212, it looks like this is indiginous to the 921 base code that they aren't messing with, unless... it happened because you exceeded your partition space while recording! Seems to me I was recording an event where the recording didn't quit, then when full, the hard drive got wiped clean last summer but that was a while back when it happened so my memory is not clear on the specifics. Just speculating!
> 
> chuckbernard- Do yourself a favor and go do some homework on a website weakknees.com See how we live on the Dark side with 77 hours of HD record time and then swap the drives with another 77 hours.


I didn't say I DIDN'T have a single bug. I've had a couple of ZSRs, I was hit early on with the Grey Screens of Death when they were common, and I've had a few hairy periods when I've had two timers active and a third tried to fire right after that and things crashed (After 2 hours with Advanced Tech, right when we thought the unit was dead as check switch wouldn't let it see the transponders, he told me to unplug the sat1 and sat2 inputs and reverse them and that fixed it... something about reinitializing the tuners... um, OK). I Don't use it for OTA reception yet so that may have shielded me froma bunch of the problems. I also never let it get within 3 hours of HD recording time left on the drive. But up to this point I haven't had all my tmers wiped out - knocks on wood desk-.

However, overall, I am happy with the unit, warts and all. After my sister bailed to D*, I went over to play with her DirecTivo and the guide and channel layouts bugged me. I search the program guides for shows buried in the middle of the night, and I don't just use a search engine, as I don't always know WHAT I am searching for. E* is much better for this window shopping-esque browsing. I also watch HBO Comedy and Showtiem Beyond a lot, so that is keeping me firmly in the E* camp.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I appreciate all the hard work that Mark does, but I'm just wondering here, "would as much get done to correct the problem if it hadn't happened to Mark?" In other words, if other problems don't happen to Mark, will as much be done to correct them?

Just A Thought.


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

Mark,
Pleeeeeeease tell me you're having the "audio dropout / pixelization" problem!

Brad


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Ah, see... there is another one I've had.... The occasional audio dropout on recorded SD programs.... Happens about once an episode for about 1-2 seconds, followed by a pixellation breakup and then it is fine. Barely worth mentioning on the ticked-off meter, but it would be nice to kill this bug as well.


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## ClaudeR (Dec 7, 2003)

So far, I have had more lockup problems with my 311 than the 921. My biggest problem with ithe 921 is the rediculous noise. But I can see where the 921 problems can be much more SEVERE. 

I have also had the one second audio dropouts, and the temporary loss of lock for OTA locals on the 921, but I have other things to do than just watch TV... 


Good luck Mark.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yes, I was having the dropout problem. My 921 is currently on a plane headed for the other side of the pond...


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

Wow, this is a stupid thread. A whole bunch of people have problems with their 921s and when suddenly the almighty Mark's box has a problem, all of the sudden its of urgent importance and they want his personal box sent to them to analyze it, crazy stuff....


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Mark,
Boy this would be a lot easier if they could analyze it here in Denver.

Were you running beta software?
Are they sending you a replacment box?


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Bob:-

True Confessions? 

Agreed that 90% of the problems are OTA related issues for most. With the old 6000 it was 99% of the problem. It why everyone says E* doesn't know how to do OTA tuners well. The audio dropouts, Ive noticed here are mostly HBO and they are happening on D* as well. I have not noticed any on the other channels that I recall and that goes for E* and the 921.

You and I have the same opinion on the TIVO guide, ie it is too slow to really go window shopping for something to watch. I do have news for you though... What I do here is use the VOOM guide because it is fast and complete, including OTA channels. Once I select from the VOOM guide an interesting title, I go to Tivo ans select the type in section to select a program. As you type the letters the search list gets smaller and is updated instantly. e.g. Say you see a show called "Meatballs" and you want to record that. In the TIVO you type M and the list has all the programs with "M" then e and it gets smaller list and by the timne you type "MEA" you will probably see the Program in the list and you select it to record. It will record the next airing of the show or tell you where it is on right now. If you do use the guide you can hold down the remote button and the guide will scroll at high speed until you let up and then the guide will update to that time and day. But the whole guide of info does not scroll by like on the 921 and the VOOM receiver. That is probably the only majopr complaint with TIVO operating system. Unless you can work around it, you will either need to change your ways or suffer.

Mark- I'll bet the shipping cost on that was steep!


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Well, the good news is that this may be the step necessary in getting this damn problem fixed. At least I really hope that it's the step that's necessary...
> 
> Gone. Poof.
> 
> ...


Outstanding. I'm really getting discouraged about the HD losing all recorded data.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

David_Levin said:


> Did all the people who experienced the HDD wipe have full hard drives?


No I don't think that I have ever used up to one half of the hard drive with HD content. I watch it then erase it to keep lots of space.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> Bob:-
> 
> True Confessions?


Maybe. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't sugar coat the problems I have. I go in though with reasonable expectations. The two timers that have been problematic have backups from me. I record the west coast feed of King of Queens for that safety net, and I check my Thursday Smallvilles from HDNet every week to make sure I don't have problems. If I do, then I record the second showing of the two episodes which airs directly after the first showing.

Plus... to reiterate, I have NEVER let my 921 automatically delete any of my old shows. I only have a handful of protected recordings (and I will delete them when the Star Wars Clone Wars cartoons comes out on DVD next week.... my son rewatches them a lot). I think this may have spared me from a lot of the problems as well.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

BFG - no, not stupid. Mine's the first beta box to fail like this, and my box has activity logging that normal boxes don't have. That's why they wanted mine. 

David - I agree. I'm not sure why Mark's not here at the moment, but he's not, and it's faster to send the box over there than it is to wait for Mark to get back from over there. Yes, I was on beta software, and I'm still waiting to hear what's going to happen for a replacement. I hope to know here in a little while. 

Don - I imagine it probably was.

Bob - I stressed my box a lot more than you stress yours, it sounds like. Sorry to make you worry...


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Mark - Here's my take.....

Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this...."

Doctor: "Then don't DO that......"

I can't dodge all of the headaches, but I can make sure I don't engage in behavior that increases the likelihood of the gremlins showing up.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> Maybe. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't sugar coat the problems I have. I go in though with reasonable expectations.


Bob,

Wow, Charlie has really taught us to lower our expectations (for a box that's been in your living room for a year).

I also backup my most important timers, and try not to ever let the box auto-delete.

Additionally, I'm still afraid to try and delete a PVR event with both tuners recording, and I never trust the pads to actually pad. I try to remember to tune an OTA channel before the event time to make sure the channel is still there. If the red light is supposed to be on, I try to remember to check that it is. If it's supposed to be off I try to remember to check that it isn't. Every Sunday I check all timers for the week to make sure the shows are still where they were the week before. :icon_dumm


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

I dont' know if you folks recall, but I was the very first to have this problem. A very long time ago is seems now. My total loss of programs happened when I tried (for the first time) to record an OTA program. At that time or very shortly after I got a call, thanks to Marks help, from the 921 folks and it was determined to be a problem with that particular station (KRON in the SF bay area) and also shortly after a few others had the same problem with that station. 
I have not had a recurrence of the problem but that is probably because I have not again tried to record anything OTA.
My question to you, Mark, was that an OTA station or a Dish station(channel)?
BTW, when mine happened there was plenty of space left on the hard drive so it wasn't necessary for the software to do any erasing of old program(s).

I surely hope that they will once and for all, finally fix this problem. It is surely the worst possible bug that can occur on a machine designed to record programs for later view.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Mine was trying to record ESPN-HD. But, it was tuned to my local FOX channel (that we've been having some issues with) before the timer tried to fire.


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## mwgiii (Jul 19, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Tonight, a weekly timer firing to record Tilt off of ESPN-HD for me, a timer that has successfully fired for the last 7 or 8 weeks in a row successfully, caused all of my recorded content (24 hours, 35 minutes of HD) to be deleted. Gone. Poof.


Well Mark, look at the bright side - Eldon won't see all of the porn you had recorded.

Do you have a backup 921 or are you HD PVRless?


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi Mark,

I also can confirm Grandude's story. In fact, there were three of us that all tried the same thing with KRON in the SF Bay Area. We all, deterministically got the same thing to happen. If those guys are serious, and want a repeatable case, they can fly out here and try to record KRON, then try to play it back. They will get their hard drive wiped. None of us have tried it since. BTW, there was no trick play on KRON either. Haven't tried it since L212 either.


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## ClaudeR (Dec 7, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Mine was trying to record ESPN-HD. But, it was tuned to my local FOX channel (that we've been having some issues with) before the timer tried to fire.


My wife complains about all the dropout on the OTA channels. I have a RatShack red zone Yagi, but only need a yellow zone antenna. Always have 125 signal, but it still loses signal. The box ususally freaks when there is a loss, so that's probably what happened to you. Hope they find the problem.


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## zer0cool (Nov 24, 2004)

Hope you got to catch the encore of Tilt. By the way, the season finale is this Sunday, not Thursday.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yeah, I caught it last night, but only in SD. I do have a replacement 921 now, but it's going away on Monday due to a remote responsiveness issue that's not UHF related. On to my 3rd one now...I'm starting to feel the same pain that some of you have been feeling.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

For those that are concerned about the "disk near full auto-delete" issue, note that it triggers at 0:20 HD (2:20 SD) remaining free space.

I get there all the time, and haven't had any trouble - but now think I'm going to manually stay ahead of it just for safety.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

I have to keep mine above 3:30 SD available to prevent auto-deletion of the oldest SD hour.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

BobaBird said:


> I have to keep mine above 3:30 SD available to prevent auto-deletion of the oldest SD hour.


 Interesting. Anyone else care to chime in?

0:20/2:20 or 0:30/3:30 ?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Eldon received my old 921 today...started testing...already seeing some interesting results that I can't talk specifically about...


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Hmm.. I didn't know this.... 3hrs. 30 minutes is the trigger that starts deleting shows? I'm back up to 9 hrs. free, but I was flirting with 3 hrs. 56 min. about two weeks ago (a lot of reruns in March have helped me gain ground on my backlog of recorded shows.)


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Eldon received my old 921 today...started testing...already seeing some interesting results that I can't talk specifically about...


Damn NDA!


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

Ladies and Gentlemen, it finally has happened to me! 
Is there an echo in here?  

After having my 921 for 15 months, I got my first ZSR last night. And here I was saying just a couple of days ago that I had never had one. Did I curse myself?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Bob - MY 921 triggers at 0:20/2:20 (HD/SD).

That's why I'm asking for other reports.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

OK. Just wondering......

I've got full seasons of a few shows I haven't started watching yet, and I don't want to lose them, but I've heard that the protected feature can cause problems, so I'm trying to keep plenty of space available as a preventive measure....


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