# Whole Home/MRV Upgrade Install



## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

I finally pulled the trigger and upgraded to the new Whole Home DVR/MRV to connect my 5 HD DVRs (3-HR24-500, 1-HR22-100 & 1-HR23-700) to each other and the internet
My install technician seemed to be a very bright professional. Initially he wasn't sure I would be able to have all 5 HD DVRs on Whole Home with the SWiM 16, but after connecting them up, he was able to make it work…the MRV part that is.

Aside from a rare issue with the original SWiM 16 not producing 18V, the install seemed to go pretty well. Of course he did NOT have an extra SWiM 16 with him, so he had to set me up with 4 HD DVRs connected for Whole Home viewing by using a SWiM LNB. 

Cue the next day, the technician brings another SWiM 16 which produces both ODD and EVEN voltages, so it seems we are good to go. But upon closer review and unfortunately after the technician left, I noticed that many channels (over 30), were giving me the ‘Searching for Satellite’ message (772)…and this was happening on every DVR. 
I called him and he returns to troubleshoot. He checks the LNB, the power injector, the dish alignment, various connectors and all signal tests are great at the DVR and dish…everything leads him to believe it may be the SWiM 16. This of course is unheard of. Seems it is very rare for a SWiM 16 to be bad, let alone 2 on the same job. He tries one last ditch effort to see if the placement of the power injector will make a difference. He takes the cable run where the power injector is connected and connects directly to the DC input on the SWiM 16. No change…so he moves it back. He also speaks with his supervisor and they both agree to bring out another SWiM 16 to try tomorrow. 
After the tech leaves, I notice that the DVR which has the power injector connected, and was temporarily connected directly to the DC input on the SWiM 16, now has all channels. Not sure if the connection to the SWiM DC input somehow jumpstarted it, but it did make a difference. The other 4 DVRs still have the same issues. 

He is coming back for Day 3 of the install with another SWiM 16 in hand; anyone have an idea as to what may be causing this problem? I have little faith that the SWiM 16 is bad, so any help will be appreciated. Seems Whole Home installs with 5 HD DVRs are rarer than I thought. Thanks for your patience on this extremely long post. I appreciate any help we can get.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

silentpartner said:


> I finally pulled the trigger and upgraded to the I noticed that many channels (over 30), were giving me the 'Searching for Satellite' message (772)&#8230;and this was happening on every DVR.
> t.


you mentioned 772 "searching for satellite signal" actually the error 772 stands for "No guide data" this is usually the symptom when a receiver is set to SL5 when a SL3 is present or vice versa. please pot the right error code.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

peds48 said:


> you mentioned 772 "searching for satellite signal" actually the error 772 stands for "No guide data" this is usually the symptom when a receiver is set to SL5 when a SL3 is present or vice versa. please pot the right error code.


Which doesn't have anything to do when on a SWiM, as all the guide data comes off 101.
I'm sure this was a typo and it was 771

Maybe I should ask a dumb question: What model PI is "trying" to power this SWiM-16?


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

Sorry...typo on the code...it is 771.

VOS: Inserter model # is PI29R1-03


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

could be many things but it is NOT the SWM16 and the SWM16 with 5 dvrs is not that uncommon maybe just to him.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

This the way my SWM-16 was install about two months ago





It's 8-tuners max for each 8-way splitter above.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

silentpartner said:


> Sorry...typo on the code...it is 771.
> 
> VOS: Inserter model # is PI29R1-03


"So much for the dumb question".

Wonder if powering it down for a few mins and then back up, which receiver reboots then, would change anything.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

OK...we agree that it could be many things. We have eliminated the LNB, the connectors at the dish and the alignment/signal. The PI has been swapped out and the grounding wire has been checked. 
All equipment/connections coming from the SWiM-16/4-way switch should be good to go since the tech had to temportarily connect 4 of my 5 DVRs via a SWiM 3 LNB, when he initially had to return the bad SWiM-16 (no even voltage). All 4 DVRs worked well.

Something that bothers me is the way that the one DVR (where the PI is connected), now works after we temporarily connected it to the SWiM-16 DC Input. Could the PI not be providing enough power to the rest of the DVRs? Can the PI be directly connected to the SWiM-16 DC input, instead of providing that input via one of the DVRs?

Thanks for your help.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

VOS: Absolutely no dumb question...anything goes at this point. 
Do you mean to power down the PI, then restart the DVRs?

Drucifer: Your PI looks directly connected to the DC Input, not thru a DVR...I think I may try that as well.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

silentpartner said:


> VOS: Absolutely no dumb question...anything goes at this point.
> Do you mean to power down the PI, then restart the DVRs?
> 
> Drucifer: Your PI looks directly connected to the DC Input, not thru a DVR...I think I may try that as well.


That's the only way I think it can power both sides.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

within a whole home system the pi should be isolated and not in line with any ird. if he was missing the 18 volt then i would say it is the line from the dish if the lnb has already been changed. the tech should run you 4 brand new direct lines from the dish to either a ground block then to your swm16 or directly to your bonded swm 16 acting as a ground block, then from there you should have 4 dvrs on a 4 way splitter the power inserter connected connected directly to the dc power input then another 2 way splitter with your other dvr and a broadband deca connected to the other port on the 2way.


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## west99999 (May 12, 2007)

Drucifer said:


> That's the only way I think it can power both sides.


no it will power both sides hooked through the splitter off of swm 1 port but it should have its on direct line


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

I just connected the PI directly to the SWiM-16...and reset all IRDs.
More to come...


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

With the PI directly connected to the SWiM-16 DC input…no real magic occurred. Is there any secret method of resetting IRds…any particular order and such?
The HR24, which magically worked after the original direct SWiM-16 connection, still has all the channels…the rest of my IRDs still have 771 for various channels.
Still flummoxed.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

Drucifer said:


> That's the only way I think it can power both sides.


I have mine powered via the SWM1 port and both powers are fine

all you have to watch for is that if its behind a splitter that its on the red port (the power pass port) though its better if its not behind a splitter, I might be wrong on this next part, it could weaken the power and although you do want a minimum 15ft I think you don't want it to lose to much

the reason I'm using the SWM1 port is so I can power it from a UPS without having to runn another cable


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

I tried it directly connected to the DC IN, but it seems my MRV didn't like it. 
I had it with nothing connected to the 'Signal to the IRD' on the PI...is that cool?


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

silentpartner said:


> I tried it directly connected to the DC IN, but it seems my MRV didn't like it.
> I had it with nothing connected to the 'Signal to the IRD' on the PI...is that cool?


on the PI if nothing is on the to IRD port you should put a terminator on the IRD port, though that might be less important if you're powering it via the Power only port v the SWM1 port


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

silentpartner said:


> I tried it directly connected to the DC IN, but it seems my MRV didn't like it.
> I had it with nothing connected to the 'Signal to the IRD' on the PI...is that cool?


This doesn't make any sense, "unless" you left something off on the splitters etc.

When the PI goes into the DC port, it doesn't matter what is on its output, since this is all DC.
When it's on the SWM/RF port, then all open ports should be terminated.
When the PI isn't on the SWM #1, all open ports on both SWiM outputs should be terminated.
DECA and SWiM have NO interaction.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

VOS: I left the 4-way switch as is, connected to 4 of my 5 IRDs; the 5th is connected to the SWM2. When I had the PI direct connected to the DC IN, no change was noted on the channels issue, but maybe I was impatient with the MRV, since I can now see that it would make no difference.
The main issue I now see, is once I removed the PI from the connection near the #1 IRD (based upon its position in the DC pass slot on 4-way switch), the IRD no longer has all channels. I have essentially duplicated the same connection, only near the SWiM-16 instead of near the IRD, yet it no longer works. 
This definitely seems to be an issue with DC voltage…but damned if I can figure it out. Might have to wait until Monday when a new crew of DirecTV techs enters the fray.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

do you have a voltmeter?
I might be wrong about the following and it might not be a good idea but anyway

check the voltage on the "to swm" port of the PI it should be 29v

since it seems that the installer doesn't work with SWM16's he likely doesn't work with SWM8's ether as the LNB can do what a SWM8 can for the most part

I'd follow the wires from the SWM16 to the LNB and make sure he didn't do something odd like connect one of these http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...al-Locator-for-SL5-S-and-SL3-S-Dishes-(ASL-1P) in the way

then as some recivers seem to have issues with auto config addresses (not dhcp but 169 addresses) check that you have a CCK (if its a CCK-W then you can do a pass through avoid a 2nd splitter)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

measuring the unloaded voltage out of the PI is rather pointless.
Check the amperage rating on this PI. Should be 1.5 amp


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

veryoldschool said:


> measuring the unloaded voltage out of the PI is rather pointless.
> Check the amperage rating on this PI. Should be 1.5 amp


I was more looking towards the idea of checking that it can out put whats its supposed to

but ya you're right it would be unloaded and thus not be a check of if its up to spec, you'd have to have 2 ends held such that the sheild would be in contact and then use to meter over the 2 center conductors


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

DarkLogix said:


> I was more looking towards the idea of checking that it can out put whats its supposed to
> 
> but ya you're right it would be unloaded and thus not be a check of if its up to spec, you'd have to have 2 ends held such that the sheild would be in contact and then use to meter over the 2 center conductors


aka a split open coax


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Have you tried reauthorizing the receivers?

Also what channels are you missing? Maybe he switched you from a 5lnb head to a 3lnb head and you are noticing channels that come off 119?

Just a couple of things I noticed nobody else asked yet.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

Another stupid question...have all the receivers been rebooted? I'd also try rerunning satellite setup.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I don't think I've seen this mentioned yet - you can only feed 4 DVRs off each/either output of the SWM16 - so if all 5 were connected to the same output you would see the problems you have.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

carl6 said:


> I don't think I've seen this mentioned yet - you can only feed 4 DVRs off each/either output of the SWM16 - so if all 5 were connected to the same output you would see the problems you have.


I didn't think I missed that:


> VOS: I left the 4-way switch as is, connected to 4 of my 5 IRDs; the 5th is connected to the SWM2


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks again for all of the support.
I haven’t really messed with the PI since it was swapped out initially and made no difference. Unless there were 2 bad PIs, I think I’m safe.
I have reset all IRDs MANY times. I haven’t tried to reauthorize them though.
As for the channels I'm missing, this isn't a comprehensive list; just enough to help me verify what was consistently missing from all IRDs (minus the IRD I previously mentioned that now receives all channels). 
101, 208, 212, 214-216, 231, 237,239, 242, 244, 252, 254, 266, 269, 278, 290, 299, 307, 331, 334-335, 355, 500, 502-505, 511, 515, 516, 521, 527-530, 535, 546-548, 550, 551, 567, 604, 607, 613, 619, 620, 629 etc...
Since each suspect IRD is missing the exact same channels, isn’t it safe to say this is voltage related?
I think I’ll try to reauthorize the IRDs online with DTV.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

I just realized that I didn't go much past the 600’s when I was checking bad channels...it saddens to now realize that my Sunday Ticket is affected. Most of the 700's are also searching for satellite. 
My priority has shifted to ensuring my prime IRD is receiving those channels.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Let's look at this from a different view:
Look at all the receiver's setup screens for the SAT/transponder levels.
If you see missing/different numbers, then there is a SWiM problem.
If they all look the same, then you don't have a SWiM problem, but have a receiver authorization problem.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

Here are my Sat #s

Satellite: 101º Tuner 1
1-8 95 95 94 99 95 98 94 98
9-16 94 96 95 98 96 98 95 98
17-24 95 0 95 100 96 98 96 99
25-32 90 0 89 0 93 96 89 96

Satellite: 101º Tuner 2
1-8 94 95 98 99 95 98 94 98
9-16 95 96 95 98 96 98 95 98
17-24 95 0 95 100 96 99 95 99
25-32 96 0 95 0 97 98 95 99

Satellite: 99º(c) Tuner 1
[National HD channels]
1-8 90 94 86 85 86 89 86 85
9-16 88 89 84 83 89 90 NA NA

Satellite: 99º(c) Tuner 2
[National HD channels]
1-8 90 93 86 86 86 89 86 85
9-16 86 89 84 83 89 89 NA NA

Satellite: 99º(s) Tuner 1
[Local HD channels for some cities]
1-8 97 0 95 0 96 0 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 95 0
17-24 100 99 0 0 39 42 97 99

Satellite: 99º(s) Tuner 2
[Local HD channels for some cities]
1-8 97 0 96 0 95 0 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 99 0
17-24 99 100 0 0 34 41 97 98

Satellite: 103º(s) Tuner 1
[Local HD channels for some cities]
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 0 0
17-24 0 100 0 14 0 0 0 97

Satellite: 103º(s) Tuner 2
[Local HD channels for some cities]
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 NA NA
9-16 NA NA NA NA NA NA 0 0
17-24 0 100 0 15 0 0 0 97

Satellite: 103º(ca) Tuner 1
[National HD channels]
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
9-16 0 86 0 88 0 84 0 88
17-24 0 82 0 88 0 82 0 89

Satellite: 103º(ca) Tuner 2
[National HD channels]
1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
9-16 0 87 0 89 0 83 0 88
17-24 0 84 0 86 0 83 0 89

Satellite: 103º(cb) Tuner 1
[National HD channels]
1-8 0 93 0 85 0 90 0 86
9-16 0 89 0 87 0 89 NA NA
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

Satellite: 103º(cb) Tuner 2
[National HD channels]
1-8 0 94 0 86 0 91 0 86
9-16 0 89 0 87 0 91 NA NA
17-24 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

SWM Tuner 1
1-8 100 0 95 0 0 0 96 99
9-16 99 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA

SWM Tuner 2
1-8 100 0 94 0 0 0 96 99
9-16 99 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

Performed a reauthorization on all affected IRDs...still have issues, but I now notice Sunday Ticket channels are working. Not sure if it was the reauth or not. 

I have to head out for a while. I'll be back soon.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Bingo!


> Satellite: 103º(ca) Tuner 1
> [National HD channels]
> 1-8 NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA
> 9-16 *0* 86 * 0 *88 *0* 84 *0* 88
> ...


The cable and/or input to the SWiM-16 13 volt 22 kHz is the problem.
Maybe even the LNB.

Now what I'd try is to swap the 18 volt & 13 volt 22 kHz inputs and see if the zeros change from odd TPs to even TPs.
If they do, then the cable or LNB is bad.
If they don't, then the SWiM-16 is bad.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

SWEET! When I get home I'll try the swap. 
The LNB has been swapped and the first SWM16 was bad, so hopefully this is a bad connector. Thx VOS...I'll report soon.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

silentpartner said:


> SWEET! When I get home I'll try the swap.
> The LNB has been swapped and the first SWM16 was bad, so hopefully this is a bad connector. Thx VOS...I'll report soon.


"Could be" as simple as a loose connector.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

OK…it seems even simpler than that...

After swapping the 13v & 18v 22Hz connections at the SWiM-16, the channels came back and the zeros went away from the 103 signal test. I didn't realize the lines coming from the dish made a difference at the SWiM-16. Could it be that the tech had these connections in the wrong position the whole time, thus replacing a good SWiM-16? (The original SWiM-16 was replaced because of an even voltage problem).

It still puzzles me as to how he felt all signal tests were good from the dish, especially since he was aware of the issue with the 103 satellite zeros. 
Oh well, I'm just glad it is working. Special thanks to VOS and everyone else for helping me through this.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The LNB also has a switch so positions have nothing to do with it.
Loose connectors, or maybe something going wrong at a ground block would be more likely.

If the "tech" knew about the zeros, then he isn't "a tech", and barely an "installer". :nono:


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

silentpartner said:


> OK&#8230;it seems even simpler than that...
> 
> After swapping the 13v & 18v 22Hz connections at the SWiM-16, the channels came back and the zeros went away from the 103 signal test. I didn't realize the lines coming from the dish made a difference at the SWiM-16. Could it be that the tech had these connections in the wrong position the whole time, thus replacing a good SWiM-16? (The original SWiM-16 was replaced because of an even voltage problem).
> 
> ...


Take a pic of your SWiM-16 and post it here.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

Here are a couple of pics of the SWM16. The tech did replace the grounding block.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Yep, that's a SWiM-16 :lol:


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

OK, so we have no idea why it now works, huh?


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Ah, the mysteries of life and electronics.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

silentpartner said:


> OK, so we have no idea why it now works, huh?


Well since you did the troubleshooting and there wasn't a defective part, "it's all up to you".
Why this cable didn't work and now does, I can't tell you through the internet.


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

True, I guess I was expecting you to provide me a definite reason how this could be. 

I did call the tech to report this new finding (we're buddies now after a 3+ day install:lol and of course he was disbelieving. He was obviously happy that it's now working, but not sure why. I know he touched those cable connections a few times during the install, so its hard to believe just swapping them caused a fix. 

I'll provide an update if anything changes. 
Thanks again.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

You had a coax that was having problems passing/sending 13 volts.
You swapped this to a port with 18 volts, which it passes.
The other cable the had 18 volts, now has "only" 13 volts.

Cable #1 has a problem, which could be a loose connector, bad ground block, etc.
Inspection of all connectors on this coax should be the first step. Any connectors that look corroded, dirty, etc. should be replaced.


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## DarkLogix (Oct 21, 2011)

I'd see if the tech could replace that cable
Maybe its damaged in some way (bad connector/some other damage to the conductor/water)

I'd actually see about getting 4 brand new cables run from the dish to the SWM16 w/ a new grounding block and make sure that water can't get to the connections


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## silentpartner (Feb 9, 2007)

Will do...4 new cable runs sounds like a winner, it's a pretty short distance. 
The grounding block was just replaced, but I guess that will be redone as well. 
I plan to mention the 103 readings and why this wasn't addressed by the technician...hopefully he can learn from this ordeal.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I've got to stop, or I'll be ripping this "installer" a new...
It's one thing to not be totally familiar with SWiM, DECA, and the SWiM-16.
"BUT"! to know that the even or odd transponders are zero and to not address this, is unforgivable and shows how poorly the "person" understands their job.
This type of problem, is so basic to DirecTV system, that a CSR first explained this to me almost 9 years ago, after I had "the installer from Hell" put in my first Ka/Ku dish.


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