# MAC



## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Have just a general question for everybody, favorite version of a Mac. I was thinking of purchasing one for the bedroom just to dabble with. I'm not looking to go out and buy a powerhouse or anything, but a barebones unit with enough behind it for me to enjoy having one. Might as well throw this in here as well, favorite OS as well.


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## shedberg (Jan 20, 2007)

Air - Snow Leopard.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

shedberg said:


> Air - Snow Leopard.


Always wanted one of those, but since this is a play around I probably won't get that 
Snow Leopard is the newest release, isn't it?


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## tunce (Jan 19, 2006)

Well if you are new to Mac and have a keyboard mouse and monitor just buy a Mac Mini. If you don't have those just get a low end iMac. I am a IT Director and use all sorts of "flavors" of OS and Hardwares. Our favorites are HP and Mac, at home I use a iMac for main computer and have a 13inch "Aluminum" MacBook for the wife's machine. I use a brand new 17 inch MacBook Pro for my main office computer.

Mac Snow Leopard (OS 10.6.7) is the best so far.

If you have any questions just ask me.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

AttiTech said:


> Always wanted one of those, but since this is a play around I probably won't get that
> Snow Leopard is the newest release, isn't it?


Yes, "SL" is the latest, v.10.6.7. Folks are talking about "Lion", coming 'soon'. 
Whatever you get should be freely upgradable to this version, assuming it starts with 10.6.x. Otherwise SL is like $30.

I really like my MB Air, but also my MB Pro. And then there's the iPad. So they each have their strengths and I'd be hard pressed to say which to get other than if you're going to do heavy video or photo editing, go with the Pro....


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

I love my 27" iMac. Can't go backwards now....


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

What are you using it for? (As that will dictate how much power you will need, and if an iPad is an option)


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## tunce (Jan 19, 2006)

dmurphy said:


> I love my 27" iMac. Can't go backwards now....


I love those!!! I have the 21.5" as I did not have the money for the 27 at the time. Screen envy here - LOL


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

I wouldn't recommend a mac mini unless you bought the keyboard, mouse and display.

Like everything else Apple - it loses a bit without the whole package. Their displays are phenomenal and the color rendition and brightness/crisp nature of the displays brings the OS into another dimension. You'd give up a lot using a generic LCD.

Also, the mouse and keyboard are both high quality and the mouse (or magic trackpad)especially brings the whole OS together. Being able to use 1 button, 2 finger swipe up and down to scroll, swipe side to side to pan, etc makes using a traditional 3 button windows mouse seem oddly over-engineered.

Like Earl said... without knowing your need its hard to say.

We bought an iMac 21.5 (the 27 was too large of a display for us) and just bought a new 15" MBP.

My recommendation would be a MacBook Pro. Performance on them is phenomenal. In terms of the iMacs, update is coming probably next week that will really move them up in performance. A little more detail about what you need would help the recommendations though (and how much you want to spend - which will dictate new or used, MacBook or iMac, etc)


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## haggis444 (Jan 21, 2004)

You can see by my avatar where my religion lies...

My only recommendation is to make sure you get 4GB of memory. I am not sure what most of the lower-end Macs ship with these days but that is the one place Apple seems to go cheap is the amount of memory they include.

If you are handy with a screwdriver you can buy certified 3rd party memory and it will work just fine and save you some $ rather than buying it from Apple--however I do think they have dropped their pricing on additional memory so you might want to do some research.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What are you using it for? (As that will dictate how much power you will need, and if an iPad is an option)


Pretty much the only thing I'm using it for is for Youtube, hulu, stumbleupon, facebook, boredom, ect. I don't want a tablet, that's a completely different expense I'm already looking into. I just want a MAC desktop with atleast 1GB of RAM, 256 graphics, I wouldn't die if 128 was in it, atleast a 1.6 processor. I don't really care what OS it's running. If it's a newer one and can run find on those specs, then fine, I'll run it. If it's going to be buggy because this is just a boredom computer, then I would just go with a lower OS.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

haggis444 said:


> You can see by my avatar where my religion lies...
> 
> My only recommendation is to make sure you get 4GB of memory. I am not sure what most of the lower-end Macs ship with these days but that is the one place Apple seems to go cheap is the amount of memory they include.
> 
> If you are handy with a screwdriver you can buy certified 3rd party memory and it will work just fine and save you some $ rather than buying it from Apple--however I do think they have dropped their pricing on additional memory so you might want to do some research.


Upgrading it wouldn't be a problem for me since the internal layout is similar to a pc, and I've been building PC's for people and myself for about 11 years now. I don't want a brand spanking new one, unless the deal is an absolute steal, and I know Apple charges a little extra for their setups than you would for a pc, but a used one in good condition with those previously stated specs would make me one happy fellow.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

AttiTech said:


> Pretty much the only thing I'm using it for is for Youtube, hulu, stumbleupon, facebook, boredom, ect. I don't want a tablet, that's a completely different expense I'm already looking into. I just want a MAC desktop with atleast 1GB of RAM, 256 graphics, I would die if 128 was in it, atleast a 1.6 processor. I don't really care what OS it's running. If it's a newer one and can run find on those specs, then fine, I'll run it. If it's going to be buggy because this is just a boredom computer, then I would just go with a lower OS.


I would then just look for a used, smaller 13" or so, intel based MacBook.

Shouldn't be more then a couple hundred bucks, and would be small enough to keep in the side drawer, and should have the modern power supply (magnetic clip), which is easy to keep tucked away as well.

It shoudl be able to run Snow Leopard, not sure about the next OS LION


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I would then just look for a used, smaller 13" or so, intel based MacBook.
> 
> Shouldn't be more then a couple hundred bucks, and would be small enough to keep in the side drawer, and should have the modern power supply (magnetic clip), which is easy to keep tucked away as well.
> 
> It shoudl be able to run Snow Leopard, not sure about the next OS LION


What about in the realm of desktops? Mostly looking for a stationary unit to use since the tablet is on the horizon.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

BudShark said:


> Their displays are phenomenal and the color rendition and brightness/crisp nature of the displays brings the OS into another dimension. You'd give up a lot using a generic LCD.


This sounds remarkably like a sound bite from an advertisement for a Bose plasma television.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

With the iMac refresh due soon, you should be able to pick up a used or refurbished 21.5 for a decent price.

Wife and I switched to 27" iMacs a year ago. The displays are gorgeous.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

klang said:


> With the iMac refresh due soon, you should be able to pick up a used or refurbished 21.5 for a decent price.
> 
> Wife and I switched to 27" iMacs a year ago. The displays are gorgeous.


21.5 iMac all in one? That would be pretty nifty. Used those a lot in college and loved them.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Get the MacMini. It's a good way to dabble without spending a lot of money. All you need is any monitor, keyboard and mouse and you are good to go.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I agree with Mr. Blount. A mini is a great starter mac. Buy a used one, no more than 12 months old, and you should have OS 10.6 on it.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

BudShark said:


> I wouldn't recommend a mac mini unless you bought the keyboard, mouse and display.
> 
> Like everything else Apple - it loses a bit without the whole package. Their displays are phenomenal and the color rendition and brightness/crisp nature of the displays brings the OS into another dimension. You'd give up a lot using a generic LCD.
> 
> Also, the mouse and keyboard are both high quality and the mouse (or magic trackpad)especially brings the whole OS together. Being able to use 1 button, 2 finger swipe up and down to scroll, swipe side to side to pan, etc makes using a traditional 3 button windows mouse seem oddly over-engineered.


^ I agree with all of that.

I do think a Mac Mini will have all of the computing power that you will need consider what you said you'll be doing. RAM can be easily on any Mac you buy at a very good price.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I agree with Mr. Blount. A mini is a great starter mac. Buy a used one, no more than 12 months old, and you should have OS 10.6 on it.


Around how much would I be looking at spending?


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## flexoffset (Jul 16, 2007)

(*rumor* A product refresh of the MacBook Airs and iMacs may be imminent.)

If you want to use the computer in bed or in a recliner then an Air might be good. I'd go for an Air if it had a 17 inch screen. 
13" just wouldn't cut it for the way I do stuff. YMMV.

If you don't want to use a computer while laying in the bed, then an iMac would be good. I like Snow Leopard for the OS. Lion is coming out before too long.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

Here is the refurbished area of the Apple store.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

AttiTech said:


> Around how much would I be looking at spending?


New MacMinis start at $699 but a good place to look is Amazon. They have them for a little bit cheaper and no sales tax.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Min...K9U2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303840864&sr=8-1

As Stuart mentioned, getting them refurbished is also a good way to go.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

AttiTech said:


> What about in the realm of desktops? Mostly looking for a stationary unit to use since the tablet is on the horizon.


IMHO...

If you don't need the horse power, from a large power supply.
Multiple Hard Drives (RAID), and multiple Optical drives...
(And the larger processors)

Desktops are not worth it today.

With 17" monitors on the MacBook Pro's... that is pretty darn big for most casual usage.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

BudShark said:


> I wouldn't recommend a mac mini unless you bought the keyboard, mouse and display.
> 
> Like everything else Apple - it loses a bit without the whole package. Their displays are phenomenal and the color rendition and brightness/crisp nature of the displays brings the OS into another dimension. You'd give up a lot using a generic LCD.


I disagree... because I think you are better off starting with a cheap keyboard, mouse, and LCD, and then if you fall in love with the Mac you can always upgrade.

For the record the Apple keyboard isn't all that and a bag of chips in my opinion. It's nice but you have the option of EITHER wireless OR a full set of function keys and a number pad. You can't have both. The magic mouse is fun, and you get used to it, but for the first several weeks you will be wondering why everything is flying around the screen without you asking it to. And it eats batteries unless you turn it off when not in use.

As for the monitor, yes, Apple monitors have always been great. But there's nothing stopping you from buying one later in the game if you want.


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## Casey21 (Sep 20, 2007)

iMac 21.5 with latest version of Snow Leopard. The 27 monitor was completely unnecessary for my purposes. Don't misunderstand when someone says to buy the "low-end" iMac. The "low-end" is fantastic and should have everything you need. Just read reviews - most will say that the "low-end" is more than enough for the average user. I absolutely love my iMac - works flawlessly, beautiful screen, looks cool - never had 1 issue with it. It's a pleasure to use - hate going to work to use their crap ass microsoft pc products - Ugh! Thank goodness I work at home 2 days/week. This was my first iMac (already owned an ipod for several years, an iPhone, and an iPad for the previous 1 1/2 years so I know Apple is QUALITY! Never would go back to anything other than Apple. I don't need to go under the hood like many like to do with PC's - I just need the computer to work perfectly and this one does.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Oh and by the way I spend about 30 minutes a month cleaning the daing white keys on the Apple keyboard. That's not a lot, unless you consider how infrequently I clean all the black keyboards I deal with. White is not a good choice for this sort of peripheral.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

BudShark said:


> I wouldn't recommend a mac mini unless you bought the keyboard, mouse and display.
> 
> Like everything else Apple - it loses a bit without the whole package. Their displays are phenomenal and the color rendition and brightness/crisp nature of the displays brings the OS into another dimension. You'd give up a lot using a generic LCD.
> 
> Also, the mouse and keyboard are both high quality and the mouse (or magic trackpad)especially brings the whole OS together.


I got my wife a Mini. We went to the Apple store specifically to get an iMac, but the glossy screen just would not work for her. So we got the Mini, a keyboard, MM and trackpad. Then I went out an got a high end 23" LED/LCD with a matte screen to pair with it and it looks as good as the iMac's did. Ended up costing slightly more than the iMac and have a Core Duo vs. an i?, but it is plenty for her and our daughter.

Liked it so much getting it setup that I went and got me a 17" MBP (matte screen ). I have WIN7 running via Bootcamp and VMWare Fusion on both machines and it works great. They really are at a level above.

As for they keyboard issue, my wife has the white Apple with the num pad, but I have a Logitech MX5500 bluetooth paired with my MBP.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Oh and by the way I spend about 30 minutes a month cleaning the daing white keys on the Apple keyboard. That's not a lot, unless you consider how infrequently I clean all the black keyboards I deal with. White is not a good choice for this sort of peripheral.


Heck, it takes me only a minute to load it into the dishwasher....:nono2:


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Laxguy said:


> Heck, it takes me only a minute to load it into the dishwasher....:nono2:


:lol: Wouldn't mind doing that sometimes. So quick question....Macbook Pro or Macbook Air?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

AttiTech said:


> :lol: Wouldn't mind doing that sometimes. So quick question....Macbook Pro or Macbook Air?


I'd be glad to give a considered opinion, but I gots to know: What you'll do with it? What you won't do? ie. heavy CPU needs, or not? Lots of HD space or no? Backup strategy. As much as you can describe, er, within reason. Budget.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Laxguy said:


> I'd be glad to give a considered opinion, but I gots to know: What you'll do with it? What you won't do? ie. heavy CPU needs, or not? Lots of HD space or no? Backup strategy. As much as you can describe, er, within reason. Budget.


Well again, it'll pretty much be used for the same reason as the eMac I was talking about earlier. Facebook, Stumbleupon, gmail, Pandora, Youtube, and more than likely would have Sims 3 installed on it. I know my wife likes the Macbook air because of how thin, light, sleek blah blah blah, but I'm a little hesitant with a destructive 19 month old in the house. I'm not sure how sturdy it is in comparison since it is such a small item. A good size screen would be nice. So I guess it would need a little up and go to it for the video game, but other than that it's all about asthetics for her. For budget, well I would prefer to not have to spend an arm and a leg, but it's a Mac, and that's what you do for some of their equipment. Let's say $1200?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

AttiTech said:


> :lol: Wouldn't mind doing that sometimes. So quick question....Macbook Pro or Macbook Air?


MacBook Air
13-inch : 128GB

* 1.86GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
* 2GB memory
* 128GB flash storage1
* NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics
* $1,299.00

MacBook Pro
13-inch: 2.3 GHz

* 2.3GHz dual-core
Intel Core i5
* 4GB 1333MHz
* 320GB 5400-rpm1
* Intel HD Graphics 3000
* Built-in battery (7 hours)
* $1,199.00

So unless you really have a need for the smaller size of the Air, then the Pro is a no brainer. It has the new Sandy Bridge processor and the HD3000 graphics are equivalent to the 320M, twice as much ram and almost 3x the hard drive. Plus it has an optical drive which you have purchase (and tote around) separately with the Air.

The SSD is nice, but do you really need it?


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Herdfan said:


> MacBook Air
> 13-inch : 128GB
> 
> * 1.86GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
> ...


Need it? No. Does my wife want it? Yes.....Does my wife normally get what she wants because she's adorable? Yes. Can I beat this adorable epidemic? Maybe.

Thanks for the specs, mate! I hate the 13" screen though. Arrrgh. I'll have to spend the extra, worth it?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

AttiTech said:


> N I hate the 13" screen though. Arrrgh. I'll have to spend the extra, worth it?


Cheapest 15"

* 2.0GHz quad-core
Intel Core i7
* 4GB 1333MHz
* 500GB 5400-rpm1
* Intel HD Graphics 3000
* AMD Radeon HD 6490M with 256MB GDDR5
* Built-in battery (7 hours)

* Ships: Within 24hrs
* Free Shipping
* $1,799.00

But as you can see, you get a quad core i7 and a 6490M graphics.  It is a screamer.

Is it worth it? Well, I have the 17" 2.3 quad core i7 with 8 GB. So I would say yes.  But as always, YMMV.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

herdfan said:


> cheapest 15"
> 
> * 2.0ghz quad-core
> intel core i7
> ...


o_o pointless laptop that i now neeeeeeed!
o_o pointless pricetag that I don't neeeeeeed!

Also, I have no idea what YMMV means. 
Your Move Mr. Vundaboi?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

This might help:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/15?mco=MjEwNzM3MzE


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Herdfan said:


> This might help:
> 
> http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/15?mco=MjEwNzM3MzE


That it would, good sir!


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

"AttiTech" said:


> Well again, it'll pretty much be used for the same reason as the eMac I was talking about earlier. Facebook, Stumbleupon, gmail, Pandora, Youtube, and more than likely would have Sims 3 installed on it. I know my wife likes the Macbook air because of how thin, light, sleek blah blah blah, but I'm a little hesitant with a destructive 19 month old in the house. I'm not sure how sturdy it is in comparison since it is such a small item. A good size screen would be nice. So I guess it would need a little up and go to it for the video game, but other than that it's all about asthetics for her. For budget, well I would prefer to not have to spend an arm and a leg, but it's a Mac, and that's what you do for some of their equipment. Let's say $1200?


Air all the way. Easier to hide! Much lighter if dragged off a table and onto a foot. Pretty sturdy. 
Enjoy!

From my iPhone via DBSTalk


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

"AttiTech" said:


> Also, I have no idea what YMMV means.
> Your Move Mr. Vundaboi?


Your Mileage May Vary


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

When I posted my last reply, I didn't see the other good replies, and for what you want to do, it seems to me the thing you'll lack that you want is a bigger screen. But I have both the MB Pro, and the smaller screen size of the Air doesn't bother me at all. My Air cost just a thou. but isn't a SS model, and was a gen. old when I bought it from MacMall.


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## Lucavex (Apr 26, 2011)

I know this is a MAC thread, and I'm not trying to troll here, but I feel I have to make a small case for the PC Laptops.

For the same price you'd get a 15" macbook, you could get a top end Dell XPS model.

And by Top End, I mean Top End.

3GB dedicated nVidia 555m graphics card.
Core i7 Processor
500 GB HDD
Oh, and it's 3D.

Yeah, 3D. Complete with a pair of Glasses and a Blu-Ray player...

Again, not trying to start a Mac Vs. PC war here, Macs have their merits, but a 3D laptop with blazing fast graphics and an i7 processor for about 1500 is hard to beat.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Lucavex said:


> I know this is a MAC thread, and I'm not trying to troll here, but I feel I have to make a small case for the PC Laptops.
> 
> For the same price you'd get a 15" macbook, you could get a top end Dell XPS model.
> 
> ...


But it still runs Windows. It's not the same experience. It's hard to know until you've used a Mac regularly. I was the guy making the same argument last year, until I got my first Mac.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

tcusta00 said:


> But it still runs Windows. It's not the same experience. It's hard to know until you've used a Mac regularly. I was the guy making the same argument last year, until I got my first Mac.


Another thing to note is that MacOS tends to be a bit more effecient since its using UNIX thus not requiring high end hardware to run it. A lot of people get hung up on technical specs between Windows and Mac computers but you really can't compare them since they are running different OS's. One fact still remains that Mac computers are the only computers that run both Windows and MacOSX.


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## tcusta00 (Dec 31, 2007)

Chris Blount said:


> Another thing to note is that MacOS tends to be a bit more effecient since its using UNIX thus not requiring high end hardware to run it. A lot of people get hung up on technical specs between Windows and Mac computers but you really can't compare them since they are running different OS's. One fact still remains that Mac computers are the only computers that run both Windows and MacOSX.


And, when you actually spec out a high end PC against a similarly spec'd Mac, the prices aren't really that far off from each other. Most of the time people are comparing (and by people, I mean me, because that's what i used to do, too) apples to oranges. Add in the unibody, solid as a rock construction that I've yet to see in a PC laptop, and the Mac is a winner.

Sorry to deviate from the topic here... Just clarifying misconceptions that I've managed to clear up myself in the past year.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

My i3 21.5 iMac flys... screams... kills. And thats on video processing, image processing, and general usage. Running multiple programs has little to no impact to performance.

My i7 MacBookPro is stupid fast.

To the comments that have already been made. Yes, I can buy a high-end PC for less money with more Ghz, larger HD, more RAM, bigger screen. I cannot buy a PC that will outperform my Mac for the things I do, have better color rendition between screen and printer, and be easier when you just want to do something.

And this is from a guy who worked at Microsoft, spent 20+ years on PCs, and makes a living running production and office systems on Windows. My first Apple product was an iPhone, my first Apple computer was the iMac I bought 6 months ago. Dumbest mistake I ever made because it caused us to ditch our PC laptop before it was time, and resulted in a MacBook Pro and 2 iPad2s, as well as two AppleTVs... because the more we bought, the more we owned, the better it worked, the more pleasure it was to do things with, etc.

Sappy? Yes. True in the Budshark house? Yes. Take it from me... don't do a spec to spec comparison. Outline your use, take the advice, and buy. A 1-2 year old Mac will still outperform most new PCs for common functions.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lucavex said:


> I know this is a MAC thread, and I'm not trying to troll here, but I feel I have to make a small case for the PC Laptops.


Rubbish! And "MAC" is Machine Access Control or other things. "Mac" is short for Macintosh.

No one "has to" make a case for anything. Please see thread on use of "but"!:nono2:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Chris Blount said:


> Another thing to note is that MacOS tends to be a bit more effecient since its using UNIX thus not requiring high end hardware to run it. A lot of people get hung up on technical specs between Windows and Mac computers but you really can't compare them since they are running different OS's. One fact still remains that Mac computers are the only computers that run both Windows and MacOSX.


To be fair, Macs run OSX very well, and PCs will not run it at all without a serious bit of hacking, but not every Windows program will run well on a Mac; no Windows programs will run on a Mac without your purchase of a second operating system.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

tcusta00 said:


> And, when you actually spec out a high end PC against a similarly spec'd Mac, the prices aren't really that far off from each other.


 That's a good point. I did the same thing a couple of months back and the Macs ended up being about $100 to $200 more. Not really the price gouge that a lot of people think.



Stuart Sweet said:


> PCs will not run it at all without a serious bit of hacking


Well yeah. I can hack my electric toothbrush to run my television but I was making the point from a legal stand. 



Laxguy said:


> No one "has to" make a case for anything. Please see thread on use of "but"!:nono2:


LOL! Oh yes, I forgot about that one. Using the word "but" is tricky business around here.


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## Mikemok1981 (Jul 9, 2009)

Laxguy said:


> Rubbish! And "MAC" is Machine Access Control or other things.


Lol, I thought the same thing when I saw the title of this thread.

But back on topic. My girlfriend has a Macbook Pro. Its very nice. Runs smooth and has Snow Leopard. She does have some issues connecting to her work VPN, occasionally it takes 30 minutes or so to recognize a connection. But other than that it does everything she wants, except gaming. I do more gaming than anything, so for price reasons I got a PC. Getting a Mac with a GPU capable of handling the newer games would just cost too much.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

tcusta00 said:


> And, when you actually spec out a high end PC against a similarly spec'd Mac, the prices aren't really that far off from each other. Most of the time people are comparing (and by people, I mean me, because that's what i used to do, too) apples to oranges. Add in the unibody, solid as a rock construction that I've yet to see in a PC laptop, and the Mac is a winner.
> 
> Sorry to deviate from the topic here... Just clarifying misconceptions that I've managed to clear up myself in the past year.


Tcusta is right, you can't beat the construction and ease of use of a Mac. You don't know until you've actually tried it. I was the same guy he was, why in the heck would I pay several hundred more for less raw specs. In fact, I have an HP laptop that is about 6 months old, the raw specs beat my Macbook Pro 13inch (which I got a few weeks ago) and the HP was several hundred dollars cheaper. However, I can count the number of times on one hand I've used the HP since I got the Mac - the only times I've used the HP was to access a site that had to use Active X and to transfer my files.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Chris Blount said:


> New MacMinis start at $699 but a good place to look is Amazon. They have them for a little bit cheaper and no sales tax.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Min...K9U2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303840864&sr=8-1
> 
> As Stuart mentioned, getting them refurbished is also a good way to go.


Amazon sales are taxable in several states, but it's still a good source. I paid the tax on mine but shipping was free.

With the latest Minis, adding RAM is a piece of cake (no tools required). The older models were a bit tricky to open. I added a 4 GB stick to mine for a total of 5 GB, but it was pretty snappy with the original 2 GB.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> To be fair, Macs run OSX very well, and PCs will not run it at all without a serious bit of hacking, but not every Windows program will run well on a Mac; no Windows programs will run on a Mac without your purchase of a second operating system.


I had an old copy of XP which I run on the Mac with VirtualBox (free) and that meets my needs for those times that a Mac program won't do.

I'm tempted to try turning my PC into a Hackintosh (dual-boot).


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

I bought a mac mini just to use to sunch itunes. It's not a bad PC and it's a great way to see if the Mac world is for you. You get the same experience just not with as much power. Even if you get another Mac a Mini is a decent media server. Not as good as windows 7 with media center but for synching ipods and stuff it's great.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

BudShark said:


> My first Apple product was an iPhone, my first Apple computer was the iMac I bought 6 months ago. Dumbest mistake I ever made because it caused us to ditch our PC laptop before it was time, and resulted in a MacBook Pro and 2 iPad2s, as well as two AppleTVs... because the more we bought, the more we owned, the better it worked, the more pleasure it was to do things with, etc.


Same here. Got wife and daughter a Mini. It found the network printer and loaded the driver in less than a minute. The same network printer that my WIN7 machine seems to "lose" a couple of times a month.

My wife and I have had iPhones since the first one, but that was our first Mac. I now have a MBP, an Apple TV and will be ordering an iMac next week (hopefully) when the refresh happens.

They simply are easier to use.


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## Lucavex (Apr 26, 2011)

I have to say a lot of the advice on this thread is good solid advice, and it was refreshing to see it as more of a lighthearted debate than the flame/troll wars you typically see when there's a Mac thread and a PC guy weighs in.

And I have to echo the sentiments of others on the thread now, Between a Mac or a PC, it's really a matter of personal taste and what you plan on doing.

Me? I'm a tinkerer. I'm a hobbyist hacker, and a PC is great for my interests. I can run just about any Linux distro I can get my hands on, have the windows OS for popular applications and/or games, and have the modular hardware I like to play around with my hardware specs. I like to rip my systems apart and put them back together the way I like them, so PCs are great for me. A lot of your "average" PC users are starting to migrate over to the Apple field simply because it works, it's becoming more affordable, and there's less (though not a non-existant) worry of security issues, etc etc.

Bottom line is, go with what makes you happy. Compare the OS, the hardware, and take into account what you plan to do with it. Want to play lots of games? A PC may be a better bet. There's not a lot of Apple support for several PC games. Want to edit pictures/audio/video? Apple is your friend.

So yeah, that was my $0.02. Don't spend it all in one place!


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Well, looks like Macbook Pro is going to be the choice then. As long as it's just good enough to run her Sims 3 and expansions then I'm happy (minus the hefty price tag with any good computer)


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

AttiTech said:


> Well, looks like Macbook Pro is going to be the choice then. As long as it's just good enough to run her Sims 3 and expansions then I'm happy (minus the hefty price tag with any good computer)


You'll be happy. Going with a refurbished or new?

We bought the 2011 15" MacBook Pro for 2 reasons. Just felt that the 13" was a bit too small for our taste, and the 15" and above come with the ATI (AMD) video cards that kick in on heavy load.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

AttiTech said:


> Well, looks like Macbook Pro is going to be the choice then. As long as it's just good enough to run her Sims 3 and expansions then I'm happy (minus the hefty price tag with any good computer)


I'm sure you will be happy with the Macbook. If you have access to an Apple store you really should take a peek at the iMac.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

AttiTech said:


> Well, looks like Macbook Pro is going to be the choice then. As long as it's just good enough to run her Sims 3 and expansions then I'm happy (minus the hefty price tag with any good computer)


Good choice. I have the 13" 2011 Macbook Pro and it runs great. You won't have any problems with Sims 3. I also run Windows 7 via bootcamp (dual boot) and it runs fast with a Windows index rating of around 6 (don't remember the exact number).


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Chris Blount said:


> Good choice. I have the 13" 2011 Macbook Pro and it runs great. You won't have any problems with Sims 3. I also run Windows 7 via bootcamp (dual boot) and it runs fast with a Windows index rating of around 6 (don't remember the exact number).


I think I'll get the 15" just for asthetics sake. I'm glad to know it runs Sims 3 fine. My wife has been bugging me for weeks to get her that and the new one that came out.


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

I have two 15" MacBook Pros. One is the first Intel model that I bought refurbished in 2006 that my daughter still uses for college. The other is from 2009.

You cannot go wrong with them.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Phil T said:


> I have two 15" MacBook Pros. One is the first Intel model that I bought refurbished in 2006 that my daughter still uses for college. The other is from 2009.
> 
> You cannot go wrong with them.


I know an old friend of mine still has an original Macbook he bought from the release day. He just gave it to his 8 year old son to play with and bought himself a Macbook Air for work (he teaches TV Productions at our old High School) and a Macbook Pro for play at home. He loves them to death and doesn't like using Windows if he can help it. :lol:


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## flexoffset (Jul 16, 2007)

Apple has good education discounts. maybe you can use a friend who is a teacher or student to save a couple hundred bucks. you also qualify if you are on a board of education, etc.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

flexoffset said:


> Apple has good education discounts. maybe you can use a friend who is a teacher or student to save a couple hundred bucks. you also qualify if you are on a board of education, etc.


I'll give it a shot and see what I can get taken off. I don't mind saving myself a little bit of money


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

"flexoffset" said:


> Apple has good education discounts. maybe you can use a friend who is a teacher or student to save a couple hundred bucks.


I wish they were as liberal as Adobe and let at least Middle and High schoolers participate. Get them hooked early and lock them in for life.

As it is, my daughter is going to MS next year and wants a laptop. While I can afford to get her a Mac, it will be 2x what I could get a windows machine for. So the discount would be nice.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Herdfan said:


> I wish they were as liberal as Adobe and let at least Middle and High schoolers participate. Get them hooked early and lock them in for life.
> 
> As it is, my daughter is going to MS next year and wants a laptop. While I can afford to get her a Mac, it will be 2x what I could get a windows machine for. So the discount would be nice.


I was fairly lucky with that when I was in High School. My mother was in college at the same time, going back to better herself and get her teaching degree, and when I wanted a laptop, I would jump onto the website, use her information, then get the discounts. This was only for laptop purchases because no matter how hard I tried, it was hundreds of dollars cheaper to build the desktops myself instead of having someone do it for me and have a brand name on it.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Anyone have experience with the Apple wireless keyboards and mice? I was thinking about putting a mac mini in the bedroom and hooking it up to my new 32" HDTV. My bed is about 4 feet from where this would be set up, so I don't need anything special with long ranges and what-not. Basically, it looks like we're converting the house into an all Apple, Linux, and Android home :lol:


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## elaclair (Jun 18, 2004)

AttiTech said:


> Anyone have experience with the Apple wireless keyboards and mice? I was thinking about putting a mac mini in the bedroom and hooking it up to my new 32" HDTV. My bed is about 4 feet from where this would be set up, so I don't need anything special with long ranges and what-not. Basically, it looks like we're converting the house into an all Apple, Linux, and Android home :lol:


I use them all the time both at home and at work. Even when surrounded by other wireless devices, and a LOT of rf noise in general, they stay paired pretty well. One thing to consider, for me, I use a MacBook Pro a LOT, and I actually like the wireless touchpad better than the mouse. If you get a chance, play with both before you decide.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

AttiTech said:


> Anyone have experience with the Apple wireless keyboards and mice? I was thinking about putting a mac mini in the bedroom and hooking it up to my new 32" HDTV. My bed is about 4 feet from where this would be set up, so I don't need anything special with long ranges and what-not. Basically, it looks like we're converting the house into an all Apple, Linux, and Android home :lol:


I have experience with both.

The Apple wireless keyboard does not have a number pad. If that's not a dealbreaker for you, cool. It was a dealbreaker for me. But it is a quality product in all other regards.

As for the Magic Mouse, two things I will say. First of all, it eats batteries on a regular basis unless you remember to turn it off. I don't quite know why it can't go into a sleep mode when the computer is turned off, but it doesn't do that. Also the touch surface takes some getting used to... things move all over the screen when you're not expecting them to, until you get used to keeping your fingers more still.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I have experience with both.
> 
> The Apple wireless keyboard does not have a number pad. If that's not a dealbreaker for you, cool. It was a dealbreaker for me. But it is a quality product in all other regards.
> 
> As for the Magic Mouse, two things I will say. First of all, it eats batteries on a regular basis unless you remember to turn it off. I don't quite know why it can't go into a sleep mode when the computer is turned off, but it doesn't do that. Also the touch surface takes some getting used to... things move all over the screen when you're not expecting them to, until you get used to keeping your fingers more still.


Magic Mouse sounds like it won't be an option for me then. Thank you guys for all the help.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You can use any bluetooth mouse, so I don't see that being a problem for you.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Stuart Sweet said:


> You can use any bluetooth mouse, so I don't see that being a problem for you.


Nah, pretty much it's an ease of access comfort area we're setting up in the bedroom. Like I said, the dresser with our tv on it is at the MOST 3ft, so Bluetooth would be good, PLUS I'm considering purchasing a PS3 and putting it in there so bluetooth would be handy there as well


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

We made the Mac switch a few weeks ago. I couldn't be happier. The family loves them too. I wish I would have done this sooner. Being Microsoft free is wonderful.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

I know they are not what you are looking at, but the new iMacs dropped today. Sandy Bridge processors and some new graphics cards. They look sweet.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Herdfan said:


> I know they are not what you are looking at, but the new iMacs dropped today. Sandy Bridge processors and some new graphics cards. They look sweet.


I know and "DO WANT" is being screamed at my wallet while it and the flies inside cower in fear.

Was thinking about moving around some things on my desktop and seeing if I can do a Dual Boot to test out Snow Leopard on it? Anyone have any experience with it and how it might run?

4GB ram
500GB HDD
Dual Core Processor
512mb nVidia graphics


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Herdfan said:


> I know they are not what you are looking at, but the new iMacs dropped today. Sandy Bridge processors and some new graphics cards. They look sweet.


Yep. Got mine on order. I currently have a 2009 iMac so this will be a nice upgrade. Just have to find a buyer for my older iMac to help pay for the new one.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

AttiTech said:


> Was thinking about moving around some things on my desktop and seeing if I can do a Dual Boot to test out Snow Leopard on it? Anyone have any experience with it and how it might run?
> 
> 4GB ram
> 500GB HDD
> ...


Actually, I might purchase another HDD so I don't have to wipe the one I have now with Win7 on it and just install Snow Leopard on a 500GB drive. So, if this works the same way it did with Linux, if I insert the MAC OSX disc, should I have to option to install and be able to select my new HDD??


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

AttiTech said:


> Actually, I might purchase another HDD so I don't have to wipe the one I have now with Win7 on it and just install Snow Leopard on a 500GB drive. So, if this works the same way it did with Linux, if I insert the MAC OSX disc, should I have to option to install and be able to select my new HDD??


I'm pretty sure you can do this, though I haven't tried to install an OS on an external for about ten years.

What's the overall goal, though? How are you backing up? Depending on what you're doing, cloning the existing drive to a clean HDD (using SuperDuper!) and then installing Snow Leopard over the existing OS on the internal might be the way to go. Installs are so trouble free now that I always install directly over the old OS unless it's been buggy (which it hasn't for many years now).


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm pretty sure you have to do some unnatural things to get OSX to install on non-Apple hardware. Google hackintosh.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

klang said:


> I'm pretty sure you have to do some unnatural things to get OSX to install on non-Apple hardware. Google hackintosh.


Oooops! My bad- didn't comprehend the whole bit on that. I have 0 experience doing the above. In fact, installing Doze on one of my Macs is something that's been on the back burner for several years- so I've never dual booted nor done the run-within thing.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Laxguy said:


> I'm pretty sure you can do this, though I haven't tried to install an OS on an external for about ten years.
> 
> What's the overall goal, though? How are you backing up? Depending on what you're doing, cloning the existing drive to a clean HDD (using SuperDuper!) and then installing Snow Leopard over the existing OS on the internal might be the way to go. Installs are so trouble free now that I always install directly over the old OS unless it's been buggy (which it hasn't for many years now).


The goal is to test out Leopard or Snow Leopard just to get a feel for the new features. Last Mac OS I used was Tiger and the upgrade to Leopard included about 300 changes. Basically, I can get the OS easy and cheap, I was just thinking of adding an internal HDD to the computer large enough to act as a primary incase I decide I like it more than Win7 and want to ditch it all together. Then I have a 500GB HDD to back up anything from Leopard, or keep Win7 for any situation where I HAVE to have it.

I never liked dirty installs because all the ones I've done before left a chuck of the old OS behind. It's been about 4 years since I've done an install of any kind so if things have changed then I'm unaware of it.


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## klang (Oct 14, 2003)

Laxguy said:


> Oooops! My bad- didn't comprehend the whole bit on that. I have 0 experience doing the above. In fact, installing Doze on one of my Macs is something that's been on the back burner for several years- so I've never dual booted nor done the run-within thing.


I've not tried it either. I do run VMWare fusion on my iMac so I can run the Windows version of Quicken and a couple other things.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

AttiTech said:


> The goal is to test out Leopard or Snow Leopard just to get a feel for the new features. Last Mac OS I used was Tiger and the upgrade to Leopard included about 300 changes. Basically, I can get the OS easy and cheap, I was just thinking of adding an internal HDD to the computer large enough to act as a primary incase I decide I like it more than Win7 and want to ditch it all together. Then I have a 500GB HDD to back up anything from Leopard, or keep Win7 for any situation where I HAVE to have it.
> 
> I never liked dirty installs because all the ones I've done before left a chuck of the old OS behind. It's been about 4 years since I've done an install of any kind so if things have changed then I'm unaware of it.


Yes, things have changed nicely over that time span. I don't think I am reckless with OSes, but I've moved from always clean installs, using multiple partitions, keeping the old OS just incase something breaks or software becomes flakey under the upgrade, to installing both updates and upgrades in place. But I now also have full backups with the previous OS, just in case.

I'd just install SL and if any third party software gets broken, upgrade it, as future updates/upgrades won't be fixing it.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

If you are trying to install Leopard on a non-Mac, you need to do some serious hacking which can be quite a pain. It is also against the terms of use of the software.

Keep in mind that detailed discussion of hacking is against our rules here at DBSTalk so that sort of discussion needs to end at this point.


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Chris Blount said:


> If you are trying to install Leopard on a non-Mac, you need to do some serious hacking which can be quite a pain. It is also against the terms of use of the software.
> 
> Keep in mind that detailed discussion of hacking is against our rules here at DBSTalk so that sort of discussion needs to end at this point.


Didn't realize purchasing the software and installing it on a non-mac was breaking it. My bad


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

AttiTech said:


> Didn't realize purchasing the software and installing it on a non-mac was breaking it. My bad


Yep. Quote from the *EULA*:



> 2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
> A. Single Use License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you have purchased a Family Pack or Upgrade license for the Apple Software,
> you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at a time. *You
> agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so.* This License does not allow the Apple
> ...


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Chris Blount said:


> Yep. Quote from the *EULA*:


Well that's lame. If I purchased the software I should be able to put it on any computer I please. Bleh, whatever. Thanks for the post though, I appreciate the warning.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

AttiTech said:


> Well that's lame. If I purchased the software I should be able to put it on any computer I please. Bleh, whatever. Thanks for the post though, I appreciate the warning.


Hate to say this, but you didn't purchase the software..... you bought a license.....

There are some parallels to copying digital material, but we already have enough opinions on that! :nono2: And comparisons, if not odious, can get odiferous on this board...


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## AttiTech (Feb 21, 2011)

Laxguy said:


> Hate to say this, but you didn't purchase the software..... you bought a license.....
> 
> There are some parallels to copying digital material, but we already have enough opinions on that! :nono2: And comparisons, if not odious, can get odiferous on this board...


This is true, eh it was worth a shot. Well, no testing for me since the closest Apple store is a little over an hour away


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