# OTA success story & a few ?'s



## 12th Man (Aug 15, 2006)

I've only been a Dish subscriber for about 2 weeks and bought a Silver Sensor indoor set-top antenna fully expecting to box it back up and return it. At 43-45 miles from the broadcast towers I was ultimately expecting to install a CM 4228 in the attc with an amp.

Much to my surprise the Silver Sensor found 42 channels on the scan, including all but one of the major networks (ABC which is VHF here). Of the channels I am most interested in, 2 of them were locked in at 80-90% and all others in the 70's.

What is considered a good/acceptable signal strength (quality) to avoid problems w/ pixelation, drop-outs, etc?

Would it be pushing my luck to assume I would get similar, if not slightly degraded reception using the same antenna in another room using an HDTV tuner card on a PC? ie. Is the 622 just exceptional at tuning off-air signals and any PC card I buy is not likely to produce the same results?

Very exciting! I was ready to drop a lot more money for a bigger antenna, not to mention spending time in the attic trying to run a new coax to the 622. Getting greedy, I'm now planning to try the Terk HDTVi or HDTVa to see if it will pull in the same channels plus my ABC network.


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## adk0212 (Aug 6, 2006)

StormyQ said:


> What is considered a good/acceptable signal strength (quality) to avoid problems w/ pixelation, drop-outs, etc?


In my experience, anything below 80 is subject to dropouts.

I initially was using a small indoor amplified dish-shaped antenna from wal-mart and had very inconsistent performance. One day the reception would be 90+ and the next, with the same weather conditions, it would be 75. I switched to a $3 radio shack bowtie coupled to old channel vision preamp I had sitting around. This gives much more reliable performance; signal is always 90+.

The 622 has the *terrible* feature of popping up a dialog telling you about the dropout and requiring you to hit ok, even on playback. When a recording is full of minor dropouts it turns a imperfect but tolerable recording into a completely unwatchable one.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

First off the indication is not signal strength but an indication of signal quality. My understanding is that it is a ratio between stength and errors. The scale is 0-100 and personally mine is well below 80 and I rarely have any signal problems. I believe mine hovers around high 60s to low 70s for most channels . I have one channel that is in the low 60s that the 622 does not consider accaptable quality of signal. 

As for the 622 compare to other OTA tuners. The 622 seems to have a good OTA Tuner but there are better and worse Tuners out in the field from the reports I have read. Only way to know is plug it in an give it a try.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Ron Barry said:


> First off the indication is not signal strength but an indication of signal quality.


I agree with you there - where I'm located in Metro Detroit, I was getting the local FOX channel with a mid 80's strength, but frequent drop outs. I get other channels with the same signal strength, but no drop outs. I've contacted the local FOX Station a couple of times about the problems. Their techs have said that there is either an interference in my area, or I live in an area prone to signal echos / doppler holes that is causing the problem with my OTA reception of their signal - I discounted the second excuse since I am not losing signal strength during the drop outs. There may be something in the neighborhood causing interference, but I don't have any idea how to track that, or correct it.

Since DISH made the Detroit locals in HD available, I now receive FOX in HD over the Satellite, so I don't have to worry about the problems with their OTA reception any longer. Now I can't wait for 24 to start up again in January! Finally a whole season of 24 in HD without a bunch of gaps in the DVR recordings!


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

My 622 locks OTA signals above 55 and only drops out if it falls below that threshold. Dropouts at higher signal levels may be an indication of multi-path.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yep... I have a couple of channels that are solid locks at around 65-70 on my 6000u... while other stations are iffy at around 80-85. Those signal "levels" are not always reflections on how solid or strong or clean the signal is, unfortunately.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

If the SS works, why get stupid and spend money on a over price TERK


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## 12th Man (Aug 15, 2006)

oljim said:


> If the SS works, why get stupid and spend money on a over price TERK


Why get stupid and reply when you clearly didn't read my original question. The SS works for everything except ABC which is VHF in Dallas. I asked about the TERK because it's made for both UHF & VHF. And it's hard for me to call a $34 antenna overpriced when you can simply return it if it doesn't work. I know that bashing TERK is the popular thing to do (and maybe with cause for many of their products) but if you read up on the HDTVa I referenced you'll find a lot of people having success with it.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Yeah what STormyQ said. 

I have had much success with terk 42 and a terk 44 over the three years I have used it for ota hd reception. I get all my analog and hd stations just fine. I am within 35 miles of my broadcasting towers so I have no problems. IF you want long range or deep fringe reception then another antenna would be needed.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

Aren't the HD OTA Channels going to be moved back to their usual VHF locations once the FCC shuts down the non-digital transmissions in a few years? I thought they were letting the stations simulcast in SD and HD until the conversion is completed - in what is it . . . 2009? Why would anyone install just a UHF antenna to pull in HD? Eventually you're going to need the VHF ranges once the channels move back to their "normal" frequencies.

I got "stupid" and installed one of those "over priced" Terks. I LOVE it. Small size, good performance and it doesn't look like my Grandparents house when they were trying to watch the Honeymooners for the first time . . .


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Has nothing to do with SD vs HD... Right now stations are broadcasting analog and digital until the forced digital-only cutover. May or may not be HD at that point depending on your stations.

Also, after the cutover some stations will stay at their new UHF frequencies, while others will either move back to their old VHF or UHF frequency OR may move to an entirely different UHF frequency.

Depending on your market, you may need a combo VHF/UHF antenna to continue getting digital transmissions. Some markets already require that today. My market happens to be all UHF digital, and even though some will be changing frequencies after the cutover, all will still end up in the UHF range.


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## sNEIRBO (Jul 23, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Has nothing to do with SD vs HD...


"simulcast in SD and HD" was a poor choice of words on my part. I was in a hurry and should have said "digital and analog" . . .

But the point remains valid, in some markets, after the "digital cutoff" date, channels may move back to the VHF range. Not knowing whether your market is going to change their channels back into the VHF range or not, you might be better off installing an antenna that does both UHF and VHF.

I remember reading an article in the Detroit Free Press a couple of years ago when all of our locals starting broadcasting in digital, that said the UHF signals were "on loan from the FCC" until the digital cutoff. It also said that all of the Detroit channels were expected to return to their original frequencies after the cutoff date.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

sNEIRBO said:


> I remember reading an article in the Detroit Free Press a couple of years ago when all of our locals starting broadcasting in digital, that said the UHF signals were "on loan from the FCC" until the digital cutoff. It also said that all of the Detroit channels were expected to return to their original frequencies after the cutoff date.


A lot has changed in the past few years and many stations have changed their mind about going back to their original channels. It might be a good idea to check with each local station and see what their plans are.


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## ChuckA (Feb 7, 2006)

StormyQ, I think I already responded with this a while back in another thread you asked about but I had the same problem with a set top antenna. I could get everything in DFW except ABC (WFAA) which is the only major channel on VHF. I put a $35 UHF/VHF Radio Shack antenna in my attic and that solved the problem very well. I paid almost that much for the set top antenna.


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## PTS (Sep 5, 2006)

I bought the Philips MANT940 Indoor/Outdoor Antenna and it works absolutely great.

For the first week, I had it lying on the ground of my living room and I still picked up all the HD channels in the Buffalo-Niagara region where I live. However, living in an area where planes sometimes descend to the Buffalo-Niagara International Airport five or so miles away, the signal would cut out for a few seconds when larger planes flew overhead. I found this rather strange.

This past weekend I installed the antenna on the side of my house and ran RG6 cable -- that a VERY nice Dish installer left for me -- under the siding of my house and into my living room. The signal strength is in the 90s or at 100 for just about every channel. The "airplane" issue is gone and I actually picked up one channel that I couldn't get before.

All in all, for the $30 bucks I got the antenna for (I think it's $39 now at WalMart), you can't go wrong!

EDIT: This forum won't let me post URLs yet but the link to the antenna at Walmart is: walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5000836


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## 12th Man (Aug 15, 2006)

Quick update on my OTA efforts. Thanks to a poster on another thread, I was able to manually add ABC (ch.9) on the 622 with only the Silver Sensor connected still. Being new to all of this, I probably would not have thought to try that on my own, so thanks if you're the poster I am forgetting at the moment. So at 44 miles I am pulling in all major OTA digitials including a hi-band VHF with a UHF antenna hiding behind a framed picture on my component rack.

I know that results vary greatly by location so for now I just feel fortunate to be locked in at 70-90% on every station without having invested a lot more time, effort & money in a more complex setup. 

Obvious moral of the story: start small and work your way up. You might get lucky!


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## skassan (Jan 10, 2004)

StormyQ said:


> Quick update on my OTA efforts. Thanks to a poster on another thread, I was able to manually add ABC (ch.9) on the 622 with only the Silver Sensor connected still. Being new to all of this, I probably would not have thought to try that on my own, so thanks if you're the poster I am forgetting at the moment. So at 44 miles I am pulling in all major OTA digitials including a hi-band VHF with a UHF antenna hiding behind a framed picture on my component rack.
> 
> I know that results vary greatly by location so for now I just feel fortunate to be locked in at 70-90% on every station without having invested a lot more time, effort & money in a more complex setup.
> 
> Obvious moral of the story: start small and work your way up. You might get lucky!


Please provide a link or more details. I'm in the same boat: ABC is VHF. I'm getting everything else just fine with a Walmart special, but ABC would be nice, too. I have one added problem: all of my UHF stations are north, but ABC is west.


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## 12th Man (Aug 15, 2006)

skassan said:


> Please provide a link or more details. I'm in the same boat: ABC is VHF. I'm getting everything else just fine with a Walmart special, but ABC would be nice, too. I have one added problem: all of my UHF stations are north, but ABC is west.


Believe me, I tried without success to find that post. Problem is, I'm not sure if it was even on this board as I visit several daily. It's a pretty simple process though.

In your menu, go to System Setup (6) > Local Channels (9) > Add Locals. Then you enter the broadcast channel (frequency) of the channel you want to add manually. In my case, ABC is ch. 9 so I put in 09 and *BANG* it locked the signal and added it to my program guide.

Looking at antennaweb.org, I'm not sure which ABC affiliate you would be going for in Birmingham -- WCFT out of Tuscalosa is ch. 5 and WJSU out of Anniston is ch.9. From what I've heard you have a better chance of pulling in a hi-band VHF channel (7-13) using a UHF-only antenna so WJSU may be your best shot.

Good luck!


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

What the heck is the full name of a CM 4228? What is the non tech name?


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## 12th Man (Aug 15, 2006)

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANC4228


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## jbellsaab (Sep 14, 2007)

clarkbaker said:


> What the heck is the full name of a CM 4228? What is the non tech name?


CM 4228 is a Channel Master CM 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna. Check solidsignal.com for more specs on this one. This is a GREAT antenna. I live in NH, over 60 miles from Boston. I have a rotor mounted CM 4228 on my roof and I can pull in ALL of the current networks broadcasting digital signals from Boston MA, Manchester NH, and Portland ME.


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## oljim (Aug 6, 2002)

The CM 4228 does not have a name, most ant that have names look good but cost more and do not work as good as the 4228. No other UHF ant works as good at High VHF ch as the 4228


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