# Read *this* if you are thinking about switching to Dish from DirecTV



## scottkeller

After eight years with DirecTV, I had enough of the sluggish DVR's and gave Dish a shot. Here is what I've experienced so far during and since my switch.

- My Dish installation was great. I have no complaints, and the installer was very personable and answered all of my questions, and did everything he could to accommodate my requests. He even found a way to mount my new dish in the same footprint of the old one as to no make any new holes in my roof.

- No matter what you read about Dish picture quality being "almost as good" or that "some people can't tell the difference", it's not true. Dish's picture quality is highly lacking in comparison to DirecTV. Highly. Yes, I have a 1080p TV, and yes the Hopper is set to 1080i/1080p with an HDMI cable. My wife had pushed me for years to go with Dish to save money, and even she asked if we should go back to DirecTV because the picture quality is so bad in comparison to DirecTV. On a plus side for Socal residents, the local big 4 networks on the LA spot beam look pretty good. They are almost as good as DirecTV. However, the rest of the channel lineup is grainy and the west coast feed of ESPN on DISH is lackluster. The color balance is all off, and is a bit grainy and blocky. It's not terrible, it's just not spectacular. With DirecTV I could set the sharpness on my TV in the 90's, and the picture was absolutely picture-window-spectacular. With DISH my sharpness has to be brought down to the high 60's to be watchable, and I still see tons of artifacts and grainy-ness, especially on certain channels like ESPN and Fox Business. I read on the internet recently that Dish compresses their HD channels into 1440 X 1080 instead of sending 1920 X 1080, which I'm sure is part of the problem, but I think most of the signal degradation is from MPEG compression on DISH's bandwidth starved system.

-The Wireless Joey rocks! I can watch TV in the patio. I can drag a 22" TV into the garage when the kids are watching Frozen for the 150th time on the mainTV. This thing is really great. The picture seems softer than a wired receiver, but I think that might be expected since it's basically a wifi connection.

-While the DirecTV DVR's are sluggish, but their functionality, in my opinion, still exceed the Hopper. The Hopper's menus are highly graphical, but not in a good way. The icons representing each show take up most of the screen, and the titles to the shows are sometimes not even fully displayed beneath the icon. The UI looks like it was written in the Windows 98 era. The DirecTV whole-home-DVR service itself totally smokes the Hopper whole-home system. I had a Genie, and two HR24's, and I could see the playlist for all three DVR's combined as a single playlist on all TV's all the time. Now I have two hoppers and wireless Joey, and despite what the customer service tech told me about "combining" Hoppers, they don't combine. Again, the Dish CSR misrepresented their services to me. The hoppers can play off each other's playlist, but there's no way to combine playlists.

-Hopper's built in slingbox is a nice feature. My iPad has been used as a TV a lot more lately.

- The Prime-Time-Anytime service is cool. Just basically understand that DISH basically puts the big four networks on a single transponder so you can watch or record them all with a single tuner. This is sort of a necessary play by DISH because the Hopper has only three tuners.

- Regional Sports Networks are not in HD except for NBA, NHL, and MLB games. They tell you that your local channels are in HD. They don't tell you that they might only be in HD for 3 hours in any given day. Do your research if you're thinking about switching.

-Dish Salespersons will misrepresent their channel line-up to you and trick you into believe they offer things they don't have- before you call Dish you're going to have to research, research, research on the web. live in Southern California where access to the Dodgers and the Lakers is not available on all cable/satellite systems. During my call I specifically asked if Time Warner SportsNet was an included channel, and the Dish sales lady gave me the impression that they had it. She said, "yes, we have the Lakers". I didn't pin her down and press her on the Time Warner SportsNet, I took her word for it. Now I don't trust DISH. It's sad that they do business this way, but they do. After my install I was setting up my DVR seek timers to record the Lakers, nothing was found to record. I called Dish customer service, and the channel is, in fact, not offered by Dish. I asked them what options I had, and they only offered me 50% off the NBA package for the season (which is half over anyway). 

- Overall, I really like the sling feature and the Wireless Joey, but the rest of the package just isn't for me, and I won't be with DISH for eight years like I was with DirecTV. The two year pricelock is nice, too, but I truly believe that DISH should be cheaper that DirecTV with the a less premium picture quality. Overall, I'm underwhelmed. I feel like I've taken a step down from a premium service to a second tier service. For now, I'm saving money, and getting a ton of channels and some cool new features for less money, so I'll stick with DISH for a while, and see what DirecTV has to offer in a year or two.


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## inkahauts

You cant get the lakers even if you have nba league pass.... Id dump dish if you where a big fan since they lied to you. Dish will never be an option for me just because of the lakers.... Heck the lakers are 90% of the reason why I still have satellite in the first place.


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## mwdxer

I have never had Direct, that said the pq on my 32 inch screen is fine with me. A bit small compared to many, but I can compare Dish with the OTA HD signals and yes, OTA looks sharper, but not to the point where it bothers me. I notice the difference as OTA generally always looks better.than any satellite service or cable. The only exception is the HD on the big dish and that can rival OTA as the programming comes directly from the source in most cases. I have been with Dish, now going on 17 years. I have never dropped them in all the time I have had them. Before Dish I had a big dish for programming. The reason I went with Dish was the variety and they also had the Super Stations. That is still the reasons I like Dish. Dish has a lot of channels not available elsewhere. Direct probably does have more Sports, but me not being a sports fan, I could less.Everyone is different. I still have my 211k with an outboard HDD and it serves me fine. New channels like Get TV is fantastic, as I like the old variety shows that are no longer available.


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## camo

Well said Scott. My main complaint and the reason I'll be going back to Directv exclusively is PQ. They really aren't that close contrary to what some say. Maybe on smaller screens the difference is less but I'm a big screen guy +60" so my viewing is very unsatisfactory.
Sports is another issue with part time HD as mentioned.
I will say its not all bad with Dish, they do offer some programming I prefer like $10 dollar HBO, $10 movie package and some good ale-cart options. But the PQ being inferior IMO the rates should be discounted.


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## NR4P

Thank you Scott for an objective comparison.


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## cpalmer2k

Thanks for the honest review. I'd been considering switching to Dish... the Hopper 3 has great features, and my wife records a ton of stuff so often five tuners isn't enough. I have a TiVo and a cable card, so I use it for my stuff and sports which frees the Genie up for her. But looking over their list I see a lot of channels that aren't in HD vs DirecTV. The RSN's is a huge thing, and I think they still have a feud with Fox in our area that keeps a large number of Braves games off Dish Network. I think I'm going to just order an HR54 from Solid Signal and try to see if it improves my system performance. If not, I might just break down and buy another TiVo and switch everything to Charter. I can't handle worse PQ than what DirecTV has now.


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## mwdxer

Isn't the pq on the East Coast Arc better than the West Coast for SD? Or is most of it switched?


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## hahler2

I switched to Dish almost a year ago. Overall, I'm much happier with Dish then Directv. I agree the picture quality isn't as good with Dish. It's the one downfall that I have with them. Otherwise, I'm much happier. I believe the Hopper to be a significant upgrade over the Genie. It's so much faster and easier to use. Yes, it's different and takes some getting used to, but once you do I find it way easier. I love that you can just plug any EHD into the Hopper and transfer shows back and forth. Way better than Directv's method. And Sling kicks the crap out of GenieGo. I've had both and GenieGo was a joke. Only reason I will get rid of Dish is if I decide to cut the cord once my contract is up.


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## fudpucker

If they would just fix a couple of things with the Genie I'd be much less tempted to switch back to Dish from Directv. For example: Let me have a 3 hour wide guide. Who in the heck wants a 1.5 hour wide guide with no option to get a wider one? Fix the To-Do list so it's actually functional. Get rid of the sluggish delays in keypress to execution. And let me have an EHD that doesn't replace the internal drive.


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## DanoP

Very disappointing. I was doing my due diligence to make the switch and take advantage of new customer promos and I see this. But it isn't, quite honestly, the first time I've read a complaint like this. Doing the research it's a common theme. Right now I have an old 50 inch plasma and i figure that the resolution difference/PQ will not be noticed so much. But I plan to switch to a new 60 incher shortly. And I know the bigger the screen the more you'll see imaging defects.


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## lparsons21

If you switch to Dish and get the new Hopper 3 you will not see as big a difference between what Dish and DirecTV provide. I never thought it was a big difference, but with the new H3 on both my previous 73" DLP and my new 4K tv, the PQ is much improved and has been noted in numerous posts in various places. Possibly better video circuitry.


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## scottchez

New info just in . . . 
The picture quality compare is no longer valid. It needs re tested by all due to the New chip set released Jan 30th 2016 for all new Hopper 3installs and updates.
Think about it, the new Hopper is soo fast to decode the video and solve the picture quality issue of the past.
It can record 20 things at once with prime time on and an OTA tuner. 20 things plus you can watch recordings. So many streams at once. It can also run Netflix and view Plex Media.
---
The picture is now a lot better than it was on the older Hopper.
The new Hopper 3 that just came out has the new chipset. It was released Jan 30th 2016.
It uses the new high speed compression decoder chip set.
All new customers can get the new Hopper 3.
--
Yesterday I compared Directv hrs Dish, on the same sports and movie. I could not tell a difference.
I could not do the compare side by side though but the TV size was similar.
To do a true scientific study you need the exact same TV side by side at the same time and they need to be calibrated to the sat feed.
It is normal for Dish and Directv contrast and sharpness to be different, if you don't adjust this its not a true compare.
-
Both Dish and Directv do variable compression on the same transponder so say one channel is sports and the other is a news story, The sports channel will get more bandwidth. This means that Directv will also go to a worse compression at times just like Dish will , its all both get all the channels on the transponders. This means at times one can look better than the other so you need to compare at the exact same time side by side.


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## DanoP

Thanks for the PM, Scott. May I ask the size of your screen?


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## scottchez

I have a 58" on the Joey 4K
and
a 121" Projector on the Hopper 3
-
If you want the best picture use only a Dish product that has the new chipset to support 4K, in other words the Joey 1.0 and 2.0 are still not that good picture wise. 
I tried the Joey 2.0 just as a test to confirm. The 4K chipset is much better.
When you order they will ask how many 4K TV you have just tell them Two or what ever, the TV does not have to be 4K for the Hopper 3 and Joey 4K to work.
Note: the Joey 4K is 4 times faster than the older Hopper WS, it will later do PIP, but it cost $50 more. I think the $50 is worth it to be future proofed in case 4K takes off some day. Plus it is faster and has a better picture.


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## camo

Well that's good news Scott. So you are positive the 4K chipset has a better picture even without a 4K TV?


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## scottchez

I think it is much better and the same as Directv now.
But I will put a star by the statement.

* No one can be 100% positive with out the proper test equipment, not even the ones saying Directv is better. Its all just their feeling.

Both Dish and Direct use variable compression in real time. One minute one looks good and next the other channel on the same transponder looks good.
An active sport channel needs more bandwidth, compared to a static news channel or movie with no action.
Both Dish and Direct change bandwidth real time based on the channels needs.

The only true way to test is side by side same channel at the exact same time.
I all I can say is it looks better or the same as DirecTV to me now. I could not do a side by side test. Not even with Two Dish receivers (TVs are in different rooms).
This would be something maybe consumer reports can do.

Dishes new Chips Set made it all look much better to me.
An other idea is go to a store or a Dish retailer and try out some channels. Get real close and look at the pixels. 
There is a Two Year contract with Dish and Direct so its important to be sure.
Thats how Dish offers the new 3 year price lock.


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## DanoP

I was in the middle of signing up for Dish/Hopper3. Even ran the credit check. Then they hit me up for $10 more per month than the previous CSR. They are all like economists. Ask the same question of 10 and you'll get 10 different answers. Anyway, disappointing. Ended up re-upping with DTV for $30 off per month and a one year commitment. Seems like I'm in constant negotiation with them to keep my rates low. Will revisit Dish in a year.


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## Mark4470

Ask for a account specialist. They can give better discounts than the csr.. Your right though You get a different answer or discount amount in every person you talk to.


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## lparsons21

Which is no different at cable and all sat providers. 


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## Mark4470

lparsons21 said:


> Which is no different at cable and all sat providers.
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


And you know this how? Every time I have got a good discount it is never the first person you talk to. The csr said an as can give more than I can???


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## lparsons21

I know this because I've been with so many companies over the years. Call in find a price, call later, might get a lower or higher price. Wash, rinse, repeat.


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## DanoP

At least the DTV people were consistent with their $30 off concession. They reneged on extending $15 of discounts I'm getting now and will expire soon. However, I get to combine the AT&T mobile bill with DTV and get $10 off. Only one CSR picked up on that possibility and I never brought it up....I'll add it later. BTW all this time I wasn't talking with the first line CSRs, it was a line to customer retention. I had their direct number and a PIN code. Those customer retention folks are tough cookies. Very pleasant, just a cool breeze when they talk to you. They know all the competitors pricing so you just might as well skip that part of your argument and get to the brass tacks. Give me something worthwhile to stay with you.


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## Blowgun

DanoP said:


> They are all like economists. Ask the same question of 10 and you'll get 10 different answers.


It is said that if all the economists in the world were laid end to end, they still wouldn't reach a conclusion. Or better yet, if all the economists in the world were laid end to end, it wouldn't be a bad idea. 

In any case, it's unfortunate that there is often such a wide range of answers to a single question. Imagine going into any department store and having to haggle with the clerk or a waiter in a restaurant or.... This is not unique to DISH, but does seem to be mostly unique to this industry -- whether it's TV, phone or Internet. I say mostly, because it often feels like buying a car or trinket in Tijuana.


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## mwdxer

So far the best pq I have seen in OTA. Our CBS until recently (KOIN-Portland) had no sub channels and the 1080i has been beautiful. Beats anything I have seen on cable, Dish, etc. But there is a lot of bandwidth used too.


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## bmetelsky

DanoP said:


> At least the DTV people were consistent with their $30 off concession. They reneged on extending $15 of discounts I'm getting now and will expire soon. However, I get to combine the AT&T mobile bill with DTV and get $10 off. Only one CSR picked up on that possibility and I never brought it up....I'll add it later. BTW all this time I wasn't talking with the first line CSRs, it was a line to customer retention. I had their direct number and a PIN code. Those customer retention folks are tough cookies. Very pleasant, just a cool breeze when they talk to you. They know all the competitors pricing so you just might as well skip that part of your argument and get to the brass tacks. Give me something worthwhile to stay with you.


I would highly suggest not getting the combined billing. I got it, and there have been nothing but problems related to the billing. They haven't straightened it out and the change took place in October, 2015....


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## peds48

Blowgun said:


> Imagine going into any department store and having to haggle with the clerk or a waiter in a restaurant or.... This is not unique to DISH, but does seem to be mostly unique to this industry -- whether it's TV, phone or Internet. I say mostly, because it often feels like buying a car or trinket in Tijuana.


The TV industry did this to themselves, by allowing customers to haggle for best prices. If Macy's started doing the same thing, is a matter of time until the other major retailers follow suit.

This is no difference what T-Mobile is doing to the wireless industry, have one carrier not requiring contracts and lower fees, and if this works, which it had, then Verizon an ATT must follow the trend.

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## DanoP

bmetelsky said:


> I would highly suggest not getting the combined billing. I got it, and there have been nothing but problems related to the billing. They haven't straightened it out and the change took place in October, 2015....


Sorry to hear that. I'll explore this further. I would expect that the bill is clearly itemized in order to follow the money trail.

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## Blowgun

peds48 said:


> The TV industry did this to themselves, by allowing customers to haggle for best prices. If Macy's started doing the same thing, is a matter of time until the other major retailers follow suit.
> 
> This is no difference what T-Mobile is doing to the wireless industry, have one carrier not requiring contracts and lower fees, and if this works, which it had, then Verizon an ATT must follow the trend.


The airlines are another one.


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## peds48

Blowgun said:


> The airlines are another one.


add hotels to that list as well....

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## bmetelsky

DanoP said:


> Sorry to hear that. I'll explore this further. I would expect that the bill is clearly itemized in order to follow the money trail.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Itemization is not the problem. Believe me, their "integrated billing" is not, in any way/shape/form, ready for prime time. Save yourself the grief.


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## scottchez

New Test data . . . .
I have an Over the Air Turner so I change the Super Bowl Channel over the air.
I also get it on Dish.
I can confirm that both look exactly the same on the new Hopper 3. I did this test for the last super bowl and the old Hopper was a little less.
I swapped back and forth real quick before any of the variable compression rates can change on Dish.
Over the Air is just a full 100 percent pure stream same as what they feed DirectV and Dish so this should be a better way to compare picture quality.


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## Blowgun

Here, the picture quality on the HwS is the same between OTA and satellite, but I noticed the picture size is a little smaller on DISH.


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## mwdxer

I did compare #373 Get TV with 6.2 OTA Get TV. Both SD and they look about the same. But it was 1080i KOIN 6.1 that looks better OTA than onm Dish or even Charter Cable.


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## Blowgun

To clarify, the most recent comparison was done with the exact same video frame of the Superbowl and using the swap button to switch between them. Possibly the reason for the same quality is that both video signals are going through the same video processor. As I mentioned, the only noticeable difference between the two was a slight difference in frame size, which most people likely would not notice and which may be due to variation in calibration.


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## mwdxer

If that is the case, then both Dish & Direct have the same capability to get the same pq, So I would guess again what was mentioned earlier about how much bandwidth is used per provider, it comes down to apples & oranges. One complaint I do read about Dish is Direct has some channels in HD that Dish does not had like Disney XD and TV Land. I do not know if Dish has channels in HD that Direct doesn't though.


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## James Long

mwdxer said:


> I do not know if Dish has channels in HD that Direct doesn't though.


Channels on DISH Network in HD not on DIRECTV in HD
(National Channels - DirecTV channel numbers shown)
235 Esquire Network
272 Logo
294 The Hub
330 Centric
345 RFD TV
599 Hustler TV
605 Sportsman Channel

xxx Epix 1 (Not on DirecTV in SD)
xxx Epix 2 (Not on DirecTV in SD)
xxx Epix 3 (Not on DirecTV in SD)
xxx IndiePlex HD (Not on DirecTV in SD)
xxx PixL HD (Not on DirecTV in SD)
xxx RetroPlex HD (Not on DirecTV in SD)
xxx Veria (Not on DirecTV in SD)

(The list is a little old ... add Pac 12 if you wish.)


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## inkahauts

James Long said:


> Channels on DISH Network in HD not on DIRECTV in HD
> (National Channels - DirecTV channel numbers shown)
> 235 Esquire Network
> 272 Logo
> 294 The Hub
> 330 Centric
> 345 RFD TV
> 599 Hustler TV
> 605 Sportsman Channel
> 
> xxx Epix 1 (Not on DirecTV in SD)
> xxx Epix 2 (Not on DirecTV in SD)
> xxx Epix 3 (Not on DirecTV in SD)
> xxx IndiePlex HD (Not on DirecTV in SD)
> xxx PixL HD (Not on DirecTV in SD)
> xxx RetroPlex HD (Not on DirecTV in SD)
> xxx Veria (Not on DirecTV in SD)
> 
> (The list is a little old ... add Pac 12 if you wish.)


Do you also have the opposite list?


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## James Long

inkahauts said:


> Do you also have the opposite list?


Yes.


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## camo

You can add the Outdoor Channel to the list unless Directv recently added.


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## camo

inkahauts said:


> Do you also have the opposite list?


Its larger. I found mistakes like Smithsonian HD so not 100% this is up to date.


106 TV Land
137 QVC
168 Disney Jr
174 Disney XD (Pulled 6/22/2010)
216 ION East
161 MTV 2
343 Encore Action
 
375 Shorts HD (Removed 11/2/2011)
391 Fox Soccer Channel Plus (SD is offered a la carte)
838 NBC Universo (was mun2)
xxx Ovation (Not on DISH in SD)

_Premium Channels_ (Premium subscription required)
304 HBO 2 (West)
xxx HBO Family (West) (Not on DISH in SD)
312 More MAX
xxx ThrillerMAX (Not on DISH in SD)
xxx MovieMAX (Not on DISH in SD)
xxx MAX Latino (Not on DISH in SD)
322 Showtime Extreme
323 Showtime Beyond
xxx Showtime Next (Not on DISH in SD)
xxx Showtime Women (Not on DISH in SD)
328 The Movie Channel Xtra (East)
333 Flix
353 Starz! Cinema
355 Starz! InBlack
488 Playboy Channel


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## DanoP

bmetelsky said:


> Itemization is not the problem. Believe me, their "integrated billing" is not, in any way/shape/form, ready for prime time. Save yourself the grief.


I chatted with DTV CSR yesterday about my upcoming install of Genie/mini (wanted to make sure I wasn't going to get the older, slower Genie model)...she confirmed that integrated billing has had its problems. So you are not the only one. BTW, it they do happen to show up with that old HR34 and nothing else, I'll send the tech guy off to his next job, cancel DTV, and sign up with Dish.


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## inkahauts

They aren't installing HR34 anymore. If someone tried they are not following the rules.


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## KyL416

James Long said:


> Channels on DISH Network in HD not on DIRECTV in HD
> (National Channels - DirecTV channel numbers shown)
> 272 Logo
> 330 Centric


Viacom is now using the HD feed of Logo for the live stream on their app. If you are still seeing most content window boxed (letterboxed video inside a pillar box), Dish is just upconverting the SD feeds.

For example right now Gremlins is on, Logo's HD feed has it taking up the entire 16:9 window and the logo is within the video frame on the bottom right of the screen. The SD feed is letterboxed and has the logo on the bottom right corner with the bottom half of the logo on the black bar.


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## James Long

KyL416 said:


> For example right now Gremlins is on, Logo's HD feed has it taking up the entire 16:9 window and the logo is within the video frame on the bottom right of the screen.


That is what I am seeing on DISH (channel 254). Full frame with the logo over the movie.


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## satcrazy

DanoP said:


> At least the DTV people were consistent with their $30 off concession. They reneged on extending $15 of discounts I'm getting now and will expire soon. However, I get to combine the AT&T mobile bill with DTV and get $10 off. Only one CSR picked up on that possibility and I never brought it up....I'll add it later. BTW all this time I wasn't talking with the first line CSRs, it was a line to customer retention. I had their direct number and a PIN code. Those customer retention folks are tough cookies. Very pleasant, just a cool breeze when they talk to you. They know all the competitors pricing so you just might as well skip that part of your argument and get to the brass tacks. Give me something worthwhile to stay with you.


OK, so you're getting a better deal now, correct? [ $30 off instead of 15?]

Direct just did for you what I suggested for Dish in another thread here. [ re-committing at a better rate, and I'd say you hit a home run at $30 off a month]

Good for you. Direct must be getting more user friendly.


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## DanoP

I've had the Genie/mini system installed now for several days. I am not crazy about the mini performance. I like to be able to pause on a frame on the mini and then go stepwise frame by frame. I do this primarily while watching football, especially college football to see how my OLine or Dline is doing (Michigan grad, so I can't help it football is important). Problem is, you can't stop on a frame well and if you do the stepwise frame by frame it will skip frames. Am I the only person who does this sort of thing :rolling: and can anyone tell me if the joey can do this better. I should have NEVER given up my HR24. The installer told me to do so. Most on these forums on the DTV side said I was crazy to do so. I think Dish pays termination fees so I'm still not completely settled.


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## Mark4470

DanoP said:


> I've had the Genie/mini system installed now for several days. I am not crazy about the mini performance. I like to be able to pause on a frame on the mini and then go stepwise frame by frame. I do this primarily while watching football, especially college football to see how my OLine or Dline is doing (Michigan grad, so I can't help it football is important). Problem is, you can't stop on a frame well and if you do the stepwise frame by frame it will skip frames. Am I the only person who does this sort of thing :rolling: and can anyone tell me if the joey can do this better. I should have NEVER given up my HR24. The installer told me to do so. Most on these forums on the DTV side said I was crazy to do so. I think Dish pays termination fees so I'm still not completely settled.


Michigan Fans are not the brightest lol.... I'm just kidding BTW! LOVE my Dish


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## DanoP

Are you happy with the way the Joey responds. Is there a lag. Can you pause and go frame by frame? My decision to let go of my HR 24 does make me feel dumb!

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## patmurphey

DanoP said:


> Are you happy with the way the Joey responds. Is there a lag. Can you pause and go frame by frame? My decision to let go of my HR 24 does make me feel dumb!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


The Joey 2s and 4k Joeys are very responsive with the Hopper 3, and yes you can pause and go frame by frame with Dish equipment. (When you get a Hopper 3, they automatically swap out the Joey 1s for Joey 2s for free. There is a charge for 4k Joeys.)


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## DanoP

Well, dang. Thought Dish paid early termination fees. Well, I'm stuck with DTV for one year. I asked to get my HR24 back but they are not responding to my request.


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## bmetelsky

DanoP said:


> Well, dang. Thought Dish paid early termination fees. Well, I'm stuck with DTV for one year. I asked to get my HR24 back but they are not responding to my request.


You can get a $100 Visa gift card when ordering DISH if you use promotion code 3H. It does take 6-8 weeks to process, but it could help with the cancellation fee for DTV. If you google, you may even be able to find an offer for a $200 Visa gift card.


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## FilmMixer

scottchez said:


> I think it is much better and the same as Directv now.
> But I will put a star by the statement.
> 
> * No one can be 100% positive with out the proper test equipment, not even the ones saying Directv is better. Its all just their feeling.


I hate to keep beating the dead horse on multiple forums, but even the new chipsets can't change the fact the Dish broadcasts HD in 1440x1080 vs. 1920x1080 on Directv with MPEG-4....

I've got a pending install to switch to Dish.. only for the money savings... but I keep putting it off because I'm just so nervous about getting locked into sub par picture quality that I'll be stuck with...

Directv is now testing 4k over the sat and it looks really good on the test channels... I don't know if Dish is locked into 4k VOD only or if they have plans to broadcast live 4k....

And for the record, I had Dish a couple of years ago and went back to DTV because of the soft picture.. again, I'm HUGELY skeptical that decoder chips will make up for the HD-LIte source...


----------



## Blowgun

Not only is the frame size smaller, it also has fewer colors.


----------



## rjhseven

[email protected] said:


> After eight years with DirecTV, I had enough of the sluggish DVR's and gave Dish a shot. Here is what I've experienced so far during and since my switch.
> 
> - My Dish installation was great. I have no complaints, and the installer was very personable and answered all of my questions, and did everything he could to accommodate my requests. He even found a way to mount my new dish in the same footprint of the old one as to no make any new holes in my roof.
> 
> - No matter what you read about Dish picture quality being "almost as good" or that "some people can't tell the difference", it's not true. Dish's picture quality is highly lacking in comparison to DirecTV. Highly. Yes, I have a 1080p TV, and yes the Hopper is set to 1080i/1080p with an HDMI cable. My wife had pushed me for years to go with Dish to save money, and even she asked if we should go back to DirecTV because the picture quality is so bad in comparison to DirecTV. On a plus side for Socal residents, the local big 4 networks on the LA spot beam look pretty good. They are almost as good as DirecTV. However, the rest of the channel lineup is grainy and the west coast feed of ESPN on DISH is lackluster. The color balance is all off, and is a bit grainy and blocky. It's not terrible, it's just not spectacular. With DirecTV I could set the sharpness on my TV in the 90's, and the picture was absolutely picture-window-spectacular. With DISH my sharpness has to be brought down to the high 60's to be watchable, and I still see tons of artifacts and grainy-ness, especially on certain channels like ESPN and Fox Business. I read on the internet recently that Dish compresses their HD channels into 1440 X 1080 instead of sending 1920 X 1080, which I'm sure is part of the problem, but I think most of the signal degradation is from MPEG compression on DISH's bandwidth starved system.
> 
> -The Wireless Joey rocks! I can watch TV in the patio. I can drag a 22" TV into the garage when the kids are watching Frozen for the 150th time on the mainTV. This thing is really great. The picture seems softer than a wired receiver, but I think that might be expected since it's basically a wifi connection.
> 
> -While the DirecTV DVR's are sluggish, but their functionality, in my opinion, still exceed the Hopper. The Hopper's menus are highly graphical, but not in a good way. The icons representing each show take up most of the screen, and the titles to the shows are sometimes not even fully displayed beneath the icon. The UI looks like it was written in the Windows 98 era. The DirecTV whole-home-DVR service itself totally smokes the Hopper whole-home system. I had a Genie, and two HR24's, and I could see the playlist for all three DVR's combined as a single playlist on all TV's all the time. Now I have two hoppers and wireless Joey, and despite what the customer service tech told me about "combining" Hoppers, they don't combine. Again, the Dish CSR misrepresented their services to me. The hoppers can play off each other's playlist, but there's no way to combine playlists.
> 
> -Hopper's built in slingbox is a nice feature. My iPad has been used as a TV a lot more lately.
> 
> - The Prime-Time-Anytime service is cool. Just basically understand that DISH basically puts the big four networks on a single transponder so you can watch or record them all with a single tuner. This is sort of a necessary play by DISH because the Hopper has only three tuners.
> 
> - Regional Sports Networks are not in HD except for NBA, NHL, and MLB games. They tell you that your local channels are in HD. They don't tell you that they might only be in HD for 3 hours in any given day. Do your research if you're thinking about switching.
> 
> -Dish Salespersons will misrepresent their channel line-up to you and trick you into believe they offer things they don't have- before you call Dish you're going to have to research, research, research on the web. live in Southern California where access to the Dodgers and the Lakers is not available on all cable/satellite systems. During my call I specifically asked if Time Warner SportsNet was an included channel, and the Dish sales lady gave me the impression that they had it. She said, "yes, we have the Lakers". I didn't pin her down and press her on the Time Warner SportsNet, I took her word for it. Now I don't trust DISH. It's sad that they do business this way, but they do. After my install I was setting up my DVR seek timers to record the Lakers, nothing was found to record. I called Dish customer service, and the channel is, in fact, not offered by Dish. I asked them what options I had, and they only offered me 50% off the NBA package for the season (which is half over anyway).
> 
> - Overall, I really like the sling feature and the Wireless Joey, but the rest of the package just isn't for me, and I won't be with DISH for eight years like I was with DirecTV. The two year pricelock is nice, too, but I truly believe that DISH should be cheaper that DirecTV with the a less premium picture quality. Overall, I'm underwhelmed. I feel like I've taken a step down from a premium service to a second tier service. For now, I'm saving money, and getting a ton of channels and some cool new features for less money, so I'll stick with DISH for a while, and see what DirecTV has to offer in a year or two.


After reading this, I certainly have reservations about changing. I'm a 21 year customer of Directv and have been treated like a red headed step child in past 60 days over legitimate issues still unresolved. Not sure what to do. Hate Comcast customer service too.

It all boils down to compression does it not. If one of the big 3 would de compress their stations, it would be a cinch.


----------



## FilmMixer

Blowgun said:


> Not only is the frame size smaller, it also has fewer colors.


Can you elaborate on the "colors?" Never heard that....

Anyone with Directv can get a good "example" of what I was seeing when we tried Dish a few years ago...

If you have an HD station that broadcasts "The People's Court" look at that show in HD on Directv... ever since they changed over to HD years ago, it's been obvious they are doing something different... might be 16:9 up-converted SD cameras.. I honestly don't know..

But the show has the same kind of softness that I recall from most of the HD on Dish... it's HD.. but soft and lacking fine detail..


----------



## rjhseven

FilmMixer said:


> Can you elaborate on the "colors?" Never heard that....
> 
> Anyone with Directv can get a good "example" of what I was seeing when we tried Dish a few years ago...
> 
> If you have an HD station that broadcasts "The People's Court" look at that show in HD on Directv... ever since they changed over to HD years ago, it's been obvious they are doing something different... might be 16:9 up-converted SD cameras.. I honestly don't know..
> 
> But the show has the same kind of softness that I recall from most of the HD on Dish... it's HD.. but soft and lacking fine detail..


More compression.


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## James Long

FilmMixer said:


> Can you elaborate on the "colors?" Never heard that....


I believe his complaint is about color depth. He has made that complaint about DISH's 4K output. I do not recall anyone claiming that DISH was reducing color depth on HD channels. The image size complaint has been there since DIRECTV transmitted their HD using that scheme years ago.


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## thyname

FilmMixer said:


> Directv is now testing 4k over the sat and it looks really good on the test channels... I don't know if Dish is locked into 4k VOD only or if they have plans to broadcast live 4k....


How do you know this? Did you actually watch the test channels? Which channels are they? I have DTV and can't wait for 4K broadcasting. I am afraid it will take a while...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rjhseven

thyname said:


> How do you know this? Did you actually watch the test channels? Which channels are they? I have DTV and can't wait for 4K broadcasting. I am afraid it will take a while...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You have to have 61 series mini client and of course a 4K TV. Under menu go to Search and browse. Shows a 4K Icon-click on that. Not much there but a start.


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## scottchez

Folks this is one that no one can prove as no one is in the up link center to check.
There are Two sides to this issue, here is the other side for your consideration.
Depending on where this question is posted, Dish forum or Directv forum you will get different answers.

1. Its been years since either Dish or Directv have confirmed their resolution rates. Things change
For all we know Directv now has some 1440x1080 also. Dish may now be using 1920x1080i also

The press has asked both companies in the last year what they use, they both give generic answers saying they do not release that information. These are now Trade secrets.

2 Use common sense. And use your Eyes up real close (one foot)

Can you tell the difference between 720P and 1080i 
Can you tell the difference for something in the middle like 1440x1080? I don't think so, if you could you would of seen 720p as bad it has even less res.

3. Directv has more compression making it worse.

Some will say DirecT is worse as if they are sending the fill 1920, then they have to compress more and then loose some quality or color depth.

Personal "Compression/bandwidth is the culprit in differences in HD PQ, not resolution, as pointed out by the fact that 1920x1080i and 1280x720p shows little difference, and 1440x1080i is in between those.

I contend that at the same bandwidth, 1440x1080 would look no worse and possibly even better than 1920x1080 because it would be compressed less"

4. The Great Over the Air Full HD test for locals

Do the test, compare Dish local via Sat, vrs, Dish Local via an over the air channel, vrs same channel using over the air built in TV tuner.

Can you see the difference, get with in one foot. I could not see see any difference.

5. Side by Side Tests

Years ago I switched from Directv to Dish, I had both going for a week to compare.
I could not tell a difference on a 58 inch HDTV at one foot. 
At times I thought the Dish Sports channels were better on fast moving plays (could this be compression in play here?)
But again things change, both companies have changed compression and res levels.
You can't really use this test as it is old, we need someone else to do it that has both NOW on a Hopper 3 and new Genie

Again, I am just presenting the other side of the story.


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## tampa8

rjhseven said:


> After reading this, I certainly have reservations about changing. I'm a 21 year customer of Directv and have been treated like a red headed step child in past 60 days over legitimate issues still unresolved. Not sure what to do. Hate Comcast customer service too.
> 
> It all boils down to compression does it not. If one of the big 3 would de compress their stations, it would be a cinch.


Don't go by one or a couple of posts. There are literally hundreds of posts that say at the most their is a slight difference, and as many people posting their OTA locals look about the same as their DISH locals do. There are always some for whatever reason (not malicious) who see or think they see a big difference. Find yourself a dealer or someone with a newer TV that has DISH and look for yourself then decide.


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## Blowgun

While it is true that much of the information comes from the past, such as a discussion on the DISH Tech Forum where a DISH engineer talked about how DISH saves bits. There they talked about compression, reduce frame size and reduce color depth. Paraphrasing one engineer, he said at one point that it was not practical for DISH to send full 1080p video because of how much bandwidth the stream would use. Since those days the only thing that appears to have changed is the compression method. There are no new satellites, so the total bandwidth available to DISH has not changed.

As you say, can you see the difference? People have made the claim that the 1080i picture quality on the H3 is much better that the HwS, but when asked for how the test was performed there's silence. This suggests that the difference is mostly subjective. While there is likely to be some improvement, wishful thinking can't be completely ruled out because no definitive tests were performed. With current restrictions on the amount of H3 receivers, the ugly UI and having to pay a higher rate when your bill is already approaching $150 a month, the video quality better be a hell of a lot better.

Now that things are shifting towards 4K, downloading 4K demo content is one thing, it is almost eyeball bait and you should have a good Internet connection, but in reality there is no way that DISH will provide a variation of 4K content from the bird without doing something to mitigate the amount of bandwidth that will be required. Whether it is reducing the available colors, reducing the frame size, reducing the amount of existing SD/HD channels, streaming all 4K content, new satellite launches, better compression standard or whatever -- something has to change. Fortunately there is time.

But, without more actual 4K content, 4K becomes almost a gimmick to sell televisions, like 3D was a few years ago, but only 4K has more potential and is the next big thing, which television manufactures just love. Most people will not see a difference between 1080p and 4K and many who think they do may only be fooling themselves. As was mentioned in a DIG (DISH Insider's Guide):

*Is Current HDTV Now Obsolete?*
Although 4K ultra HD can improve TV viewing, current HDTVs aren't becoming obsolete anytime soon. Consider the following:

You need a large screen to see the picture detail and quality difference between 1080p HDTV and 4K ultra HDTV. Depending on seating distance, a screen as large as 65 inches or greater may be needed to see that difference.
Also in the same article there was this:

*Where's the 4K Content?*
Further off is 4K TV broadcasting. There is no official standard yet that allows over-the-air TV broadcasting in 4K. Once standards are approved, the built-in tuners in current ultra HDTVs will not meet the standard. If you already own an ultra HDTV or plan to buy one within the next year or so, to receive any forthcoming 4K TV broadcasts, you will need to add an external box (or buy a new TV at that time that has the proper tuner).

Interesting that television manufactures are selling 4K televisions without a final 4K OTA broadcast tuner standard. This and other reasons confirms to me that it would be more advantageous to wait to buy a new 4K television. Anyway, 8K will be the next big thing we will all be talking about. Prepared to start completely over.


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## lparsons21

All of your excellent technical info and article quotes aside...

I bought a 4K tv and originally had the HWS connected to it. Excellent and noticeably better PQ than the DLP it replaced. A few days later I got the H3, and noticed right away that the PQ was better to my eyes. And frankly to my eyes is all that matters.
That you put little credence to the subjective nature of my experience, and that of many others, it is really what counts. Is the difference lab reproducible? Don't know, nor do I care other than as something else to read on a slow day.
So I'll let all the experts try to tell me my eyes are lying while they are busy counting pixels and writing yet more click bait.
You are correct on content, it is still sorely lacking, but is growing every day. Will it come to broadcast? Don't know and again don't care since I don't do OTA... 

Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## FilmMixer

thyname said:


> How do you know this? Did you actually watch the test channels? Which channels are they? I have DTV and can't wait for 4K broadcasting. I am afraid it will take a while...
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes, of course I've seen it.

The test channels are 9800 and 9801 (9801 isn't always active, and wasn't for the last week I had dish..)

You must have a C61k 4K client. And must have done an Edge Cutter search to activate it.


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## scottkeller

I'm the guy who started this thread in the first place, and wish I hadn't included so much emotion into my original post.. I'm finding this discussion very interesting. Six weeks later from my switch and I'm a tick away from going back to DirecTV trying Time Warner for a few months. It means eating $200, but Dish just isn't for me. The Hopper constantly cuts off the end of shows, and it seems like if you load up all three tuners with consecutive shows, that this is a problem. It cuts off about the last 30 seconds of the show. Obviously, frustrating, but not the end of the world. I just wish it worked better. My Hoppers have had freezing issues or situations where On Demand programming wouldn't play, and I have had to reboot them pretty regularly.

The picture quality is not what I had hoped for. I realize my original post ruffled feathers, and I'm sorry for that. I still stand behind my opinion that PQ is significantly different than DirecTV, though.

I posted this hoping to inform, and I went past into "yelping" about it and just venting frustrations. My bad. I am still on my way to switching to a new provider, but I should just have left it at that. My Dad actually referred me to Dish because he loves it, but he has older DVR's and not the Hopper, so I don't know if that has anything to do with his experience versus mine.


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## camo

Scott I agree PQ isn't as good on Dish and true its subjective but with my 70" it clearly inferior IMO. I've got Direct on suspend so still have both services. I would like to try the new chipset on the Hopper3 but afraid of extending the contract should it not improve because everything is subjective and I've seen no proof and Dish doesn't even claim a better 1080i picture on the hopper3.

I'm with you on the part time HD for sports but I'm now living out of region of interest so don't care. 
The plus side I see with Dish I'm saving a bundle on programming I get most channels I want with the Smart Pack and alecart sportsman and love the Dish Anywhere. Another thing is premiums seem to be at 1/2 price, anytime you drop they ask if you want it at 1/2 off for 6 months. Even at that I can hardly stomach the premium programming with their obvious agenda and choice of movies.


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## patmurphey

[email protected] said:


> I'm the guy who started this thread in the first place. I'm finding this discussion very interesting. Six weeks later and I'm a tick away from going back to DirecTV. It means eating $200, but Dish just sucks. The Hopper constantly cuts off the end of shows, the install was done wrong, which I found out later when my second Hopper wouldn't tune HD channels. During my service call the tech told me my initial install was done incompetently and he had to fix the screwup by my initial installer.
> 
> I felt like I was lied to by the Dish CSR who gave me the impression I'd get Time Warner Sportsnet and the Lakers.
> 
> The picture quality is no where near what you get with DirecTV. It's like this: DirecTV is like shopping at the mall, and Dish is like shopping at Walmart. If you want to save $15 a month for the kind of experience I've had, them Dish is for you.
> 
> If you're a DirecTV sub who is frustrated with your H34, just keep fighting DirecTV or get Time Warner for a couple of months to get DirecTV to beg you back with new equipment. Just don't go with Dish. It is terrible, and you will regret it.


The sooner that you go, the happier you will be. Your experience with Hoppers is not consistent with mine for almost 3 years before upgrading to the delightful Hopper 3 (and with almost everyone else's). Your inaccurate exaggeration of PQ differences can go with you. I wish you well.


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## mattyhoops

[email protected]

Sorry to hear of your experience with Dish. Other than PQ I have had the opposite experience with Dish. I switched from Direct to Dish about 1.5 years ago. The equipment, service & customer service has been superior to DTV. I left DTV because of their shoddy equipment. My Hopper and Joey have worked flawlessly.

I agree that the PQ with Dish is not as good. The image is softer and has artifacts around graphics and words. I was disappointed with this. I use the edge enhancement and noise reduction option in the setup of my Onkyo receiver. It hasn't brought it up to DTV quality, but it's closer.

I am going to stick with Dish for 2 reasons:
- Equipment has worked flawlessly for me
- This is the big one- You can transfer recordings to an external HD and even swap the HD between Dish receivers and keep your recordings! So if you're receiver fails or you want to upgrade you won't lose all your recordings. I record a lot and I have been burned by Comcast & DTV boxes failing and I lose everything!


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## scottchez

I should remind everyone that the original poster had the old outdated Hopper installed. 
It has the old Video Chipset.

His picture compare was done BEFORE the new Hopper 3 with the new Chipset even came out.

I think we answered all the questions and covered all the options. MODs time to close this thread.


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## david_jr

[email protected] said:


> The Hopper constantly cuts off the end of shows


The Hopper should not be cutting off the end of your shows if you set the defaults properly unless you have timers set for every tuner and the shows have to cut off to start the next show. It is the networks that sometimes run past the top and bottom of the hour that can cause a problem if you are recording on all your tuners. The default is 1 minute before and 3 minutes after, however if shows are recording back to back on separate timers, the 3 minute overlap is cut off automatically, which can lead to the shows being cut off. If you had gotten the H3 you would not have that problem unless you are recording 16 shows at once.


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## scottkeller

Update 2/29/2014. For the second time in only two weeks my second Hopper can't tune in one of the HD satellites. I'm only getting a fraction of the HD channels I'm supposed to get, and the Hopper shows total signal loss on many of the channels while others look perfect. The last time the tech was here he replaced a hub with a hybrid duo hub and that fixed it for about 10 days, but we're back to square one with no reception on certain channels. I don't have time to have a tech come every other week. I know my experience is not the same as others, but I'm thinking that I should have gotten a Super Joey setup with one Hopper instead. I don't know if the second Hopper is defective or what.


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## inkahauts

It you could have a bad cable. Not sure if it's possible but if it is I'd swap the two hoppers and see if the problem follows the hopper or stays in the same location. That would tell you if it's the wiring or the hopper itself at least.


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## scottchez

Are you sure you have certified 3 GHZ Coax. Dish requires 3 GHZ else you have this issue, intermittent. 
Almost all newer Coax is 3GHZ certified now a days.
It is in all their install guides. The tech should of checked.
In some cases they will try to use the existing coax and it is older or not certified for high speed.
You can also check but looking at the numbers on the side of the coax. Also make sure that same coax runs all the way back to the switch with no splitters or couplers.


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## rjhseven

scottchez said:


> Are you sure you have certified 3 GHZ Coax. Dish requires 3 GHZ else you have this issue, intermittent.
> Almost all newer Coax is 3GHZ certified now a days.
> It is in all their install guides. The tech should of checked.
> In some cases they will try to use the existing coax and it is older or not certified for high speed.
> You can also check but looking at the numbers on the side of the coax. Also make sure that same coax runs all the way back to the switch with no splitters or couplers.


I built my own home 9 years ago (I was custom builder for 25 years-retired now) and working with my low voltage sub on wiring. Told him to use best quality RG6 coax available. I'm sure 3 GHZ Coax wasn't available then. i still have Directv. Is this going to be an issue in the future_? I get 4K programming fine._


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## scottchez

The issue is the MOCA standard. Different things run on different frequencies on the coax. Think of them as channels.
The area you having issues with could be in one of the channels.
Like the other guy said, swap Hoppers (you have two), if you still have the issue at the same location then it is bad cables.


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## BlueRidgePro

I switch back & forth between Dish & DTV every 2 years. I take advantage of the "new customer" deal, saving hundreds of dollars in the first year, plus get all new latest equipment and free installation.


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## mwdxer

I know some people do that, but I am used to the Dish lineup, own my own equipment, and I would not like installers messing with my equipment.


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## BlueRidgePro

I don't understand why it would make sense to own equipment, when it is obsolete every couple of years. Isn't it cheaper to rent it for a few bucks a month & get the newest every two year. Installation is quick & easy. I keep both dishes on the roof. I like to avoid messing with equipment & just have it installed & working.


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## mwdxer

Don't care about that. I do not need the latest bell and whistles. I only pay for programming, no lease fees. I have the 211k with the outboard HDD and it works fine for a single guy. I have more TV than I could ever watch, besides Dish, I have my big dish, the Roku, Casting, OTA, Again, with all of my equipment, I can record to DVD or HDD from about any source. I would not want an installer messing with my wiring, especially when I know a lot more than they do. I am very picky. My dishes are adjusted on the money, and besides any extra savings I may gain by switching back and forth would not be worth the hassle. Also Dish has a lot of channels not offered by Direct.


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## camo

mwdxer said:


> I only pay for programming, no lease fees.


I thought lease fees were always paid on HD DVR receivers even on owned equipment. The only advantage of owning equipment would be no contract and able to do self install. 
Maybe I should say activation monthly DVR fee for service which you may not have. For most with say a hopper the activation monthly fee is the same , owed or leased.


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## mwdxer

The 211k is an interesting receiver. It is single tuner which means no lease fees. However, the consumer can easily made a dual tuner out of the receiver as it has an OTA tuner, plus an outboard HDD can be added also. Right now I am recording both an OTA channel as well as a Dish channel to the HDD. I bought it after having a SD receiver I bought back in 1999, as I wanted some of the HD fare, even though at the time I did not have an HD TV set, but I could easily convert down to 480i. After I bought the 211k I quickly discovered that I could add an outboard HDD, so off to Walmart where I bought a 500K HDD, that also gave me the 9 day guide. After our translators changed from analog to digital, I then had OTA offerings Dish did not have. Now we are up to 15 OTA channels. For a single guy, the 211k fit my budget very well and my viewing habits. Again, i pay only for programming, nothing else.I do not need anything else. I finally went to HD a couple years back and I am a happy camper.


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## Blowgun

mwdxer said:


> I bought a 500K HDD


I think you mean you bought a 500*GB* HDD. 500K media hasn't been available since around 1975 and used 8 inch Double Sided Single Density floppies.


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## mwdxer

Yes, 500GB is what I meant. I bought a 1tb one I plan to use soon.


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## Blowgun

No worries. it was, if anything, a little nostalgic seeing someone talk about 500K media again. It would have been even more nostalgic if you happened to of had a 880K HDD, if you know what I mean. 

Anyway, I'm not interested in switching back and forth between DISH and DirecTV every couple of years. To me the savings is not worth getting stuck for 2 years having to use DirecTV equipment.


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## satcrazy

mwdxer said:


> Yes, 500GB is what I meant. I bought a 1tb one I plan to use soon.


What brand did you buy [ 1 TB] was it from Wallmart, and would you please post a follow up on how well it works?

Thanks!


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## fst96se

bmetelsky said:


> You can get a $100 Visa gift card when ordering DISH if you use promotion code 3H. It does take 6-8 weeks to process, but it could help with the cancellation fee for DTV. If you google, you may even be able to find an offer for a $200 Visa gift card.


Does anybody know where I can find a promo code for the $200 gift card? I'm ready to make the switch...


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## bmetelsky

fst96se said:


> Does anybody know where I can find a promo code for the $200 gift card? I'm ready to make the switch...


The promo code I used was for $100 and it was 3H. It supposedly is good through April for the $100 Visa Card.

Never mind. I already provided the information earlier in the thread and forgot....


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## mwdxer

Western Digital, but I recently bought a Toshiba that works well too.


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## fst96se

SWITCHNOW is the promo for the $200 gift card

I used that and a referral code... I ordered a Hopper 3 and three Joey4k, so that covers my $150 cost on the Joeys.


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## BlueRidgePro

Blowgun said:


> No worries. it was, if anything, a little nostalgic seeing someone talk about 500K media again. It would have been even more nostalgic if you happened to of had a 880K HDD, if you know what I mean.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not interested in switching back and forth between DISH and DirecTV every couple of years. To me the savings is not worth getting stuck for 2 years having to use DirecTV equipment.


LOL. DIsh users say "no way I'd ever use DTV equipment or UI.". DTV users say the same about Dish. When, in fact, it's all pretty much the same experience. Kinda like presidential party politics.... People want to defend their choice as the right one.

Clearly, switching is a personal choice. For me, the $500 average annual savings is worth it. I'm just surprised that more people don't take advantage. I'm also surprised that the two companies don't wake up and use the money to improve equipment and and customer service, instead of giving it away to churn customers back & forth.


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## reubenray

I will be making this decision in a few days. I am tired of the cost of Directv getting higher and higher. I am getting ready to move and will use Directv's Mover's Plan to try to get the latest receiver for my new 4K TV. I will not pay for it being I have been with Directv since 2001. I and still researching the new Hopper 3 by Dish.

There are several factors that will control this. One is I have a ton of $$ invested with Directv being I have a motorhome with the Winegard Trav'ler plus a tripod setup for Directv. I would have to replace these if I switch to Dish. Plus I care a lot about PQ.


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## fudpucker

I'm still debating the switch back to Dish but will probably do it when my contract ends in August. I was very happy with Dish and only switched due to wanting Directv Sunday Ticket to watch my Bears (I know, glutton for punishment) and they gave that to me 2 years in a row for free. And I suspect they'd give it to me for free again to keep me. But the Genie and Minis just have too many inelegant or broken features, are slowwwwwww, and my price just seems to creep up and up over the two years I've been with them this time. (was with them for 15 years before.) I'll save a ton of money, with a package higher than what I have now, with a 3 year guarantee.

Both have pluses and minuses, and I could live with either one. There are a couple of channels in HD like TVLand that I really don't want to go back to SD in (TVLand has upgraded their programmig with shows like Younger.) I have seen the new Hopper 3 and Genie side by side recently and the PQ is very, very close (at a high end A/V shop, on high end TVs) so that's not the issue it was. Again, I could live with either, but over $130 per month when I can get a higher package (250 vs. 200) for guaranteed app. $90 per month for 3 years, plus a $200 gift card, makes it kind of a no brainer.


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## Rick Veasey

[email protected] said:


> After eight years with DirecTV, I had enough of the sluggish DVR's and gave Dish a shot. Here is what I've experienced so far during and since my switch.
> 
> - My Dish installation was great. I have no complaints, and the installer was very personable and answered all of my questions, and did everything he could to accommodate my requests. He even found a way to mount my new dish in the same footprint of the old one as to no make any new holes in my roof.
> 
> - No matter what you read about Dish picture quality being "almost as good" or that "some people can't tell the difference", it's not true. Dish's picture quality is highly lacking in comparison to DirecTV. Highly. Yes, I have a 1080p TV, and yes the Hopper is set to 1080i/1080p with an HDMI cable. My wife had pushed me for years to go with Dish to save money, and even she asked if we should go back to DirecTV because the picture quality is so bad in comparison to DirecTV. On a plus side for Socal residents, the local big 4 networks on the LA spot beam look pretty good. They are almost as good as DirecTV. However, the rest of the channel lineup is grainy and the west coast feed of ESPN on DISH is lackluster. The color balance is all off, and is a bit grainy and blocky. It's not terrible, it's just not spectacular. With DirecTV I could set the sharpness on my TV in the 90's, and the picture was absolutely picture-window-spectacular. With DISH my sharpness has to be brought down to the high 60's to be watchable, and I still see tons of artifacts and grainy-ness, especially on certain channels like ESPN and Fox Business. I read on the internet recently that Dish compresses their HD channels into 1440 X 1080 instead of sending 1920 X 1080, which I'm sure is part of the problem, but I think most of the signal degradation is from MPEG compression on DISH's bandwidth starved system.
> 
> -The Wireless Joey rocks! I can watch TV in the patio. I can drag a 22" TV into the garage when the kids are watching Frozen for the 150th time on the mainTV. This thing is really great. The picture seems softer than a wired receiver, but I think that might be expected since it's basically a wifi connection.
> 
> -While the DirecTV DVR's are sluggish, but their functionality, in my opinion, still exceed the Hopper. The Hopper's menus are highly graphical, but not in a good way. The icons representing each show take up most of the screen, and the titles to the shows are sometimes not even fully displayed beneath the icon. The UI looks like it was written in the Windows 98 era. The DirecTV whole-home-DVR service itself totally smokes the Hopper whole-home system. I had a Genie, and two HR24's, and I could see the playlist for all three DVR's combined as a single playlist on all TV's all the time. Now I have two hoppers and wireless Joey, and despite what the customer service tech told me about "combining" Hoppers, they don't combine. Again, the Dish CSR misrepresented their services to me. The hoppers can play off each other's playlist, but there's no way to combine playlists.
> 
> -Hopper's built in slingbox is a nice feature. My iPad has been used as a TV a lot more lately.
> 
> - The Prime-Time-Anytime service is cool. Just basically understand that DISH basically puts the big four networks on a single transponder so you can watch or record them all with a single tuner. This is sort of a necessary play by DISH because the Hopper has only three tuners.
> 
> - Regional Sports Networks are not in HD except for NBA, NHL, and MLB games. They tell you that your local channels are in HD. They don't tell you that they might only be in HD for 3 hours in any given day. Do your research if you're thinking about switching.
> 
> -Dish Salespersons will misrepresent their channel line-up to you and trick you into believe they offer things they don't have- before you call Dish you're going to have to research, research, research on the web. live in Southern California where access to the Dodgers and the Lakers is not available on all cable/satellite systems. During my call I specifically asked if Time Warner SportsNet was an included channel, and the Dish sales lady gave me the impression that they had it. She said, "yes, we have the Lakers". I didn't pin her down and press her on the Time Warner SportsNet, I took her word for it. Now I don't trust DISH. It's sad that they do business this way, but they do. After my install I was setting up my DVR seek timers to record the Lakers, nothing was found to record. I called Dish customer service, and the channel is, in fact, not offered by Dish. I asked them what options I had, and they only offered me 50% off the NBA package for the season (which is half over anyway).
> 
> - Overall, I really like the sling feature and the Wireless Joey, but the rest of the package just isn't for me, and I won't be with DISH for eight years like I was with DirecTV. The two year pricelock is nice, too, but I truly believe that DISH should be cheaper that DirecTV with the a less premium picture quality. Overall, I'm underwhelmed. I feel like I've taken a step down from a premium service to a second tier service. For now, I'm saving money, and getting a ton of channels and some cool new features for less money, so I'll stick with DISH for a while, and see what DirecTV has to offer in a year or two.


 Thank you for your post it helped vrey much


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## Rick Veasey

Thanks Very Much For Your Post
It helps very much. I have only had Charter Cable and some form of Satelite (I'm coming from Europe TV after serving 26 years). I am a tech junkie, and I watch TV the same way. While watching football in the winter months and being able to see the heat blooms from the heaters the players use on the sidelines gives me a big thrill. I also follow F1 and Indy Sports Car racing and being able to spot bad tires as they race around the track or some piece of junk on the track before the TV announcer does is really big for me. Now after reading these post and going to the Comcast store and seeing the picture quality there (good but not great), I'm thinking I should stick with DirecTV. It seems to be the only thing that can rival my OTA picture quality. I have a 55" Samsung Nano Crystal LED TV and with DirecTV and OTA programming the picture is outstanding (yes I can see the hairs standing on their arms). But DirecTV has done an UPDATE with a new interface which is giving fits though. My Genie (H54) DVR recorded programs disappear every 2 weeks and I have to do a reboot to get them back, which can take as much as 15 minutes. My remote Genie Minis are really slow to respond (one of them is only 15 feet away from the DirecTV WiFi bridge), but picture quality is great. With all the compression of tv programs that goes on cable TV, I don't want that. This means Statelite TV was my only option. I was just hoping that Dish would also have this great picture quality (that OTA and DirecTV has). I would really like to find Dish store with their stuff on display so I can see it for myself.


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## tivofan2018

I had a friend that wanted to own the boxes with dish and they told him they would put him on a prepay plan and charge him an extra 150.00 just to have an acct with them. talk about gouging. i wouldn't touch dish with a 10 foot pole


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## Jim5506

tivofan2018 said:


> I had a friend that wanted to own the boxes with dish and they told him they would put him on a prepay plan and charge him an extra 150.00 just to have an acct with them. talk about gouging. i wouldn't touch dish with a 10 foot pole


Should have called back to get a better CSR.


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## tivofan2018

Jim5506 said:


> Should have called back to get a better CSR.


he tried 4 times


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## NYDutch

tivofan2018 said:


> I had a friend that wanted to own the boxes with dish and they told him they would put him on a prepay plan and charge him an extra 150.00 just to have an acct with them. talk about gouging. i wouldn't touch dish with a 10 foot pole


Are you sure the $150 wasn't the charge to buy the receiver? I own all of my Dish equipment and have a Pay-As-You-Go prepay account. There were no extra charges to set up the account, and all of my equipment was purchased from non-Dish sources.


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## tivofan2018

NYDutch said:


> Are you sure the $150 wasn't the charge to buy the receiver? I own all of my Dish equipment and have a Pay-As-You-Go prepay account. There were no extra charges to set up the account, and all of my equipment was purchased from non-Dish sources.


yea i am positive the hopper was 350 and they would give me the 4k joey for 50.00 plus one month service top 250 for 99.99 plus taxes and box fees and dvr fee's and they told me the 150.00 for an activation fee just to have an acct with em!!! i told the rep the people in motor homes that do the pay as you go plan don't have to pay the 150.00 and the rep replied yes they do. then i told em that it stated no activation fee's and no cancelation fee's. if this is how dish does business i hope they go broke. screw the customer. one thing i did notice is they shove there lease deal down your throat!!!


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## NYDutch

Interesting... I've not seen any other complaints about an added activation fee for prepay, but I may have missed them. There was no activation fee when I set up my account using my owned equipment, just the first month's subscription fee. With prepay, you're not eligible for the new subscriber deals that contract folks can get, but you're also not subject to any early termination fees and can start and stop the service at will with no penalties. If you or your "friend" are still interested in the Dish service, a Dish retailer may be easier to work with. Online, you could even use Dish For My RV to set up your account using equipment bought from Solid Signal, Amazon, or even on eBay. They don't ask for any RV details. Oh, and Solid Signal sells the Hopper3 for $230.


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## patmurphey

It's BS to characterize Dish as gouging when they deal with a customer who triggered issues when applying. Those folks are a TINY minority compared to the huge number of satisfied customers.


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## James Long

DISH's offers vary based on credit rating and payment history. Does the friend had 820 credit and never missed a payment in their life (and actually has a history of paying bills)? The further one gets away from perfection the less DISH will offer a new customers. One can buy their way up to the next level if DISH's offer is not the level the customer wants (for example, if DISH offers a Hopper w/Sling and a Joey based on the customer's qualifications and the customer wants a Hopper 3 they can be offered a lease upgrade).

Worst case scenario is DISH will offer no credit and ask the customer to purchase their own equipment ... but there is usually a level where DISH is willing to offer a Hopper Duo or Wallys instead of a regular Hopper. Not the top of the line equipment but enough to get a customer started.


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## tivofan2018

James Long said:


> DISH's offers vary based on credit rating and payment history. Does the friend had 820 credit and never missed a payment in their life (and actually has a history of paying bills)? The further one gets away from perfection the less DISH will offer a new customers. One can buy their way up to the next level if DISH's offer is not the level the customer wants (for example, if DISH offers a Hopper w/Sling and a Joey based on the customer's qualifications and the customer wants a Hopper 3 they can be offered a lease upgrade).
> 
> Worst case scenario is DISH will offer no credit and ask the customer to purchase their own equipment ... but there is usually a level where DISH is willing to offer a Hopper Duo or Wallys instead of a regular Hopper. Not the top of the line equipment but enough to get a customer started.


i know that he had to file a BK because his wife passed on from cancer and the bills were killing him. i don't know what his score is now after the bk but he is dead set against contract LOL. he does has a good credit history but chooses to use it only when needed for large purchases he's not one to run out and charge up a storm on things like flat screen tv's and that kind of crap. he pays his bills on time as well. and he is dead set on the hopper 3 and the 4k joey ugh


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## tivofan2018

NYDutch said:


> Interesting... I've not seen any other complaints about an added activation fee for prepay, but I may have missed them. There was no activation fee when I set up my account using my owned equipment, just the first month's subscription fee. With prepay, you're not eligible for the new subscriber deals that contract folks can get, but you're also not subject to any early termination fees and can start and stop the service at will with no penalties. If you or your "friend" are still interested in the Dish service, a Dish retailer may be easier to work with. Online, you could even use Dish For My RV to set up your account using equipment bought from Solid Signal, Amazon, or even on eBay. They don't ask for any RV details. Oh, and Solid Signal sells the Hopper3 for $230.


https://store.dishdepot.com/hopper-3-receiver-remote
you might find this interesting. i cooled him off and told him i would put it together and we could use the dish for my rv website to activate it. but yea they have been charging an activation fee for a while now


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## tivofan2018

NYDutch said:


> Interesting... I've not seen any other complaints about an added activation fee for prepay, but I may have missed them. There was no activation fee when I set up my account using my owned equipment, just the first month's subscription fee. With prepay, you're not eligible for the new subscriber deals that contract folks can get, but you're also not subject to any early termination fees and can start and stop the service at will with no penalties. If you or your "friend" are still interested in the Dish service, a Dish retailer may be easier to work with. Online, you could even use Dish For My RV to set up your account using equipment bought from Solid Signal, Amazon, or even on eBay. They don't ask for any RV details. Oh, and Solid Signal sells the Hopper3 for $230.


update he's doing a 2 year thing there gonna just put a wally on his acct and hook his hopper3 and 4k joey up at no charge


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## tivofan2018

NYDutch said:


> Are you sure the $150 wasn't the charge to buy the receiver? I own all of my Dish equipment and have a Pay-As-You-Go prepay account. There were no extra charges to set up the account, and all of my equipment was purchased from non-Dish sources.


Streaming and Sling TV - No Contract | No SSN | No Lease | Best Deal on the Web! 216-267-5076


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## NYDutch

tivofan2018 said:


> Streaming and Sling TV - No Contract | No SSN | No Lease | Best Deal on the Web! 216-267-5076


Did I miss it? I didn't see anything about a $150 activation fee at that link. As James mentioned though, I suspect your friend was getting hit with the fee because of his credit status...


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## tivofan2018

NYDutch said:


> Did I miss it? I didn't see anything about a $150 activation fee at that link. As James mentioned though, I suspect your friend was getting hit with the fee because of his credit status...


yea his credit sucks. he went to the dealer and they told him all he can get was a flex pay acct. then he got home and we both went on the chat app and they wanted to run his credit. and he told em that he went to a dealer and they ran his credit and he was told a flex pay acct. i don't know what the dish rep did in the chat but they got him a wally with the two year price deal and now he can use his own hopper and 4k joey as well


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## tivofan2018

NYDutch said:


> Did I miss it? I didn't see anything about a $150 activation fee at that link. As James mentioned though, I suspect your friend was getting hit with the fee because of his credit status...


i'll give an update on the activation. dish is unclear on that fee but it also comes with a free install but that's what your paying for is the install. they caught my friend off guard lol. though they will waive the 150.00 fee if you installed it yourself or had someone else do it for you!!!


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