# Genie "The Good Stuff" Discussion



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

So by now we all know that the Genie DVR has picture-in-picture and five tuners. Does that make it worth the money for you guys? Personally I love never having to worry about recoding conflicts.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

The Genie makes the whole family happy, if this would have been available many years ago I wouldn't be running so many DVRs full time. Slowly I will start eliminating them. Now having a Genie Client I have trickplay ability in my kitchen and can completely hide the client behind the tv.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

Best DVR on the planet earth. (and it sits next to a FiOS 7232 presently)

5 tuners (totally independent)
1TB (200+ HD)
PIP
3 MRV streams

Truly believe it's fabulous.

Personally, I prefer H25's as MRV clients to allow the HR34 to truly excel (simultaneous 5 tuner recording), but some may prefer RVU.

I now never need to worry about recording conflicts ever again, especially when multiple HR34's are allowed so that each family segment will be able to have one someday. 

His and Her's Genie's will be the perfect setup for this specific household someday.

Love it.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> So by now we all know that the Genie DVR has picture-in-picture and five tuners. Does that make it worth the money for you guys? Personally I love never having to worry about recoding conflicts.


Yes. The five tuners and large drive was well worth it. I find myself being much more "liberal" in what I record. PIP is too cumbersome and rarely use it.

I also like the Genie feature and have found shows that I previously either hadn't heard of or hadn't thought to record.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I'm enjoying it as a sensational recorder/server for my "whole home" set-up. Even with 98 series links, I no longer have to worry about recording conflicts, and 99.99% of my recordings are fully pre- and post-padded.

I just checked, and I've got 508 recordings in HISTORY, ATM, dating back to 9/30. That's an average of 39 recordings per day... without a hiccup! What more can I say?


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 11, 2006)

My biggest plus with the Genie is the 5 tuners. Not having any conflicts is huge. As for PIP I have been using it for Football and MLB Playoffs. I don't know if I would use any other time but time will tell.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

5 tuners!
100 Series Links! (I need more, but it beats the heck out of 50)...
1TB hard drive!


Not too shabby... 

~Alan


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

It's worth it just for the 5 tuners and PIP but throw in the fact that you get 100 series links and can attach more storage space than you'll ever use it's awesome. They just need to iron out some "quirks" and squash some bugs.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Stuart Sweet said:


> So by now we all know that the Genie DVR has picture-in-picture and five tuners. Does that make it worth the money for you guys? Personally I love never having to worry about recoding conflicts.


Yes, totally worth it! Leaving recording conflicts behind is number one for me, (looking forward to Genie not interfering in the future, that is). And it may keep nomad from making recodings, too.


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Like others... 5 tuners and a cavernous hard drive.

PIP is pretty cool for football games too. 

EDIT: Yeah, it's worth it!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Would be all new models have own name instead of regular "H26" or "HR27" names ? 
Is it dish make it contagious after giving zoo's names to own new devices?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Certainly like the 5 tuners. PIP is also nice, but would be better if it was a bit more convenient, and gave more flexibility/options on picture size and location on screen.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

carl6 said:


> Certainly like the 5 tuners. PIP is also nice, but would be better if it was a bit more convenient, and gave more flexibility/options on picture size and location on screen.


Carl, you raise an interesting point that I've wondered about. I struggle sometimes with where to put the PIP secondary screen ... side-by-side or lower right.

I mostly use PIP for MLB or NFL games, and I've toyed with each option.

The other night I also decided to try going with the Monday Night Football game on the big HD set and the baseball playoff game on the iPad sitting next to me, but that only worked well because I could stream TBS with the DirecTV iPad App. I also tried the MLB At Bat app with the iPad quad view and also the Slingplayer App, but the DirecTV iPad App was the highest quality, and I really wanted to see both games to the fullest. It worked out pretty well, though it did get a little confusing trying to watch every second of both games.

I usually just use the lower right PIP option, but I have wondered if some bigger primary PIP and an overlap PIP for the secondary would be better.


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## keebler21 (Oct 22, 2011)

I love being able to manage all my shows from one box instead of making sure I had things recording on two separate DVR's.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

A PIP on/off toggle would be nice. Any updates on this coming?


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> A PIP on/off toggle would be nice. Any updates on this coming?


Not a peep, but surprises are always welcome.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Love having 5 tuners, but 8 would be better as I still occasionally have a conflict.

Would also like to have the ability for more than 100 SL's, since I'm currenlty at 100 and have to delete one every time I add one.

It's a very good box, and with the items above (at least the second one) and trick play working correctly, it would be basically a perfect box.


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## lehozle (Sep 4, 2007)

I must have missed something regarding PIP. How do you use /set it up. I don't see any reference in any of the menu option.


Thanks in advance...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

lehozle said:


> I must have missed something regarding PIP. How do you use /set it up. I don't see any reference in any of the menu option.
> 
> Thanks in advance...


While watching TV press "info" on your remote. Go all the way to the right on the info banner and you'll see PIP. There you can turn it on and choose the options for PIP.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> While watching TV press "info" on your remote. Go all the way to the right on the info banner and you'll see PIP. There you can turn it on and choose the options for PIP.


Which is, IMHO, rather unusable.


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## jcwest (May 3, 2006)

The ability to record 5 channels and record about a "Million Hours" of HD programing is wonderful.

Another plus that we enjoy is multiple MRV streams at once. 
Example: My wife can be half way through a recording like X Factor in the Rec. Room and I can start a new viewing from the beginning in the bedroom, smooth as silk.

Regular DVR's can only stream one recording at a time.

J C

P.S. Well worth the upgrade and what few bugs are left to be worked out are far less of a problem than the improved performance of the box.


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## Jerry_K (Oct 22, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Love having 5 tuners, but 8 would be better as I still occasionally have a conflict.
> 
> Would also like to have the ability for more than 100 SL's, since I'm currenlty at 100 and have to delete one every time I add one.
> 
> It's a very good box, and with the items above (at least the second one) and trick play working correctly, it would be basically a perfect box.


Five tuners is a good start. We run out of tuners often, and have to eliminate links to add one. We have two more tuners with the HR24 but without an integrated way to see all of the series links, we wind up with duplicates from time to time and we miss some things from time to time. We got the two new boxes after having DirecTiVo with unlimited Season Passes. We had to pare down 239 Season Passes to 150 Series link.

2T drive so far has not totally maxed out, but I have to delete stuff daily to be sure we don't max out. Most days we have all five tuners recording at some point in time. The overflow goes to the HR24.

I would say the Genie is better than the old Dishplayer or any Dish product, any of the cable DVRs, , but it is not as good as any TiVo we have used.

A nice feature of the Whole Home system is that you can watch a program on another box as it records.

A feature that would really improve the DTV DVRs would be progam copying to another box.

Would I recommed the Genie (nee HR34) to a friend or family member? I would if they were not willing to pony up for an original Series 3 THX capable TiVo on cable.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Sixto said:


> Carl, you raise an interesting point that I've wondered about. I struggle sometimes with where to put the PIP secondary screen ... side-by-side or lower right.
> 
> I mostly use PIP for MLB or NFL games, and I've toyed with each option.
> 
> ...


I used to have an HD Sony 40" CRT set that had PIP and would allow for a small PIP screen or a split screen. Never used it. I am surprised that it is still something that people want.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

mjwagner said:


> Which is, IMHO, rather unusable.


I wouldn't say unusable, it's just a big pain to turn PIP on and off.


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## lehozle (Sep 4, 2007)

"RunnerFL" said:


> While watching TV press "info" on your remote. Go all the way to the right on the info banner and you'll see PIP. There you can turn it on and choose the options for PIP.


Got it - Thanks!


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

I actually had three games going at the same time yesterday with PIP on the HR34 and a HR20 sharing Picture and Picture. The TV P&P allows sizing of the two windows - enlarges one / reduces the other where unfortunately the 34 PIP is fixed and always in the wrong spot for scores or stats on the different networks.

But the 34 is a great box!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

The 5 tuners definitely is a big plus during NFL (Sunday Ticket) season.

It also seems the networks are regularly competing at similar "prime" time slots for their top shows or special broadcasts...so the HR34 Genie's ability to record a group of concurrent shows is used regularly here.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

If you record four live shows, you can almost watch them all simultaneously, via PIP and trickplay in both windows. At least I did so a month ago. It borders on becoming work, though! Works for FB and Baseball, perhaps cricket, shuffleboard and quoits.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

RunnerFL said:


> I wouldn't say unusable, it's just a big pain to turn PIP on and off.


Wasn't there talk one time in the chat room of a "fix" coming soon, possibly a one button on/off toggle? It sure would be nice.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> If you record four live shows, you can almost watch them all simultaneously, via PIP and trickplay in both windows. At least I did so a month ago. It borders on becoming work, though! Works for FB and Baseball, perhaps cricket, shuffleboard and quoits.


Think that might be why PIP died out years ago?

Rich


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Rich said:


> Think that might be why PIP died out years ago?
> 
> Rich


Probably. When PIP was built into TVs it was too complicated for the average user to use because you had to have two receivers and multiple remotes in order to use it. TV manufactures realized this and stop putting it in their TVs. Its easier to have PIP built into the receiver using only one remote.


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## MrGibbage (Jul 18, 2007)

How are the menus and overall navigation? The My HR20 & HR24 are driving me nuts with the paging up and down in the guide, and deleting shows? Prepare yourself for a 30 second delay sometimes. Delete a whole folder of 100 episodes? Better go make some coffee while you wait.

Will I need a different dish, or do anything different with my current wiring? How much do they cost? Any extra fees each month?


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## xmguy (Mar 27, 2008)

I've been looking into a HR34 (Genie...OK) myself. The cost is a bit steep. Since its a lease especially. But the features you all describe would sure help my DVR dilemma. I have the following ; HR24, HR21, R22-100 AND R22-200. They are all networked via a DECA or Cinema Connection Kit. So they all see each other. However as one user pointed out. Since the units can't share SL (series links) then I end up having CSI:NY on 2 DVRs at the same time. I also read that the HR34 can stream to more than 1 client (H25, HRxx) at a time. Currently with my setup If a show is being watched on what I designate my "Network DVR " which is an R22-200 to another R22-100 then if I want to watch on my HR24 I have to wait. That seems like a nice feature. The 5 tuners sounds nice too. Again as it is now I can record 8 shows at once but they are split between 4 DVRs that is a pain. As far as PIP. I use it for watching NASCAR and NFL/SEC Football at the same time. My Vizio luckily has it built in. My HR24 AND R22-200 are in the same room so I can PIP that way. I guess it would be cool to have a DirecTV receiver that could do it too. I called DirecTV not to long ago. The best they could do on price was $99. When you don't have alot of money that is a lot. I will just wait however til I can afford one. But I'd buy one in a NY minute if I had the funds ! Sounds like one awesome unit.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Probably. When PIP was built into TVs it was too complicated for the average user to use because you had to have two receivers and multiple remotes in order to use it. TV manufactures realized this and stop putting it in their TVs. Its easier to have PIP built into the receiver using only one remote.


The "average user" is really that dumb? Geez, it's kinda hard to think that something so obvious would be hard to use. I even had a $100 gizmo that I used to get PIP on one of my TVs that didn't have PIP.

Now that I think about it, I gave that gizmo to my brother and he never figured out how to use it, so you might have a point. I have a bad habit of thinking everyone is of equal intelligence.

Rich


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Rich said:


> The "average user" is really that dumb? Geez, it's kinda hard to think that something so obvious would be hard to use. I even had a $100 gizmo that I used to get PIP on one of my TVs that didn't have PIP.
> 
> Now that I think about it, I gave that gizmo to my brother and he never figured out how to use it, so you might have a point. I have a bad habit of thinking everyone is of equal intelligence.
> 
> Rich


Well not everyone is like us on here.


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## NR4P (Jan 16, 2007)

Simply put, the 5 tuners has nearly eliminated tuner conflicts that crop up due to padding. But with OTA it is still limited to two.

It has been very reliable for me. 

So in summary.
Very easy to use. Little worry about conflicts. And hasn't missed a recording in nearly a year that I obtained one.


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

I like being able to record two or three shows and still have Double Play available.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> Which is, IMHO, rather unusable.


 It's definitely awkward. But, it only takes a couple of seconds to be in PIP mode so I wouldn't say it's unusable.

Of course in my case I've got it programmed as a macro on my remote, upper right. :grin:

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Well not everyone is like us on here.


I know, still amazes me.

Rich


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## RD in Fla (Aug 26, 2007)

Just installed mine today. What a great device. First DVR I've added in years. Still have two HR20-700s going strong. Nine tuners to record on will make the entire family very happy.


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## Hot Tub Johnny (Feb 24, 2012)

Put simply, i wouldn't have switched from TWC to directv if not for the HR34. When people ask me for satellite vs cable comparisons, the 5 tuners and 1TB drive are the first things i mention. 

I guess i'm in the minority, but i also really like PIP. I put sports in the small window and watch regular programming in the bigger window. I rarely need to hear the announcers during sports.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

A couple of quick questions about this receiver: 1) Is it 3D capable? (I think it is) and 2) Does a 3D capable HDMI cable come in the box?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes.

No HDMI Cable included.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

How many HDMI outputs does the HR34 have?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

One HDMI port.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

Just one? That's terrible. My receiver doesn't support 3D so I have to run 3D directly to the TV but I need to run an HDMI to the receiver for my sound system. Looks like I can't do that with the HR34.

Having just one HDMI output sucks!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Does your equipment support ARC?


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

Ok, it's also got a digital (coax) or an optitcal (s/pdif) hookup. Which is better?


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

dpeters11 said:


> Does your equipment support ARC?


What's ARC?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I run an optical from my Sammy back to my AVR (Denon) with fine results. The Denon will support 3D, but I choose to do it this way mostly because there are times I don't want or need big sound, and can keep the AVR off.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"jangell2" said:


> What's ARC?


Audio return channel. I use it with my roku, HDMI from the roku to my tv, then HDMI from the TV to my receiver so that the audio goes to the receiver. But both the TV and receiver need to support it.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> Ok, it's also got a digital (coax) or an optitcal (s/pdif) hookup. Which is better?


Digital Coax, and that's the only one it has, no optical on the HR34.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> I run an optical from my Sammy back to my AVR (Denon) with fine results. The Denon will support 3D, but I choose to do it this way mostly because there are times I don't want or need big sound, and can keep the AVR off.


my Denon (2809ci) is a great receiver but too old to support 3D.

Do you think it's as good as if it were HDMI?

That's one vote for optical. Thanks for the info.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"jangell2" said:


> Just one? That's terrible. My receiver doesn't support 3D so I have to run 3D directly to the TV but I need to run an HDMI to the receiver for my sound system. Looks like I can't do that with the HR34.
> 
> Having just one HDMI output sucks!


Actually it makes no sense to have more than one hdmi. And the amount of issues and additional horsepower that would take would be unreasonable. That's why they have coax audio out.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Digital Coax, and that's the only one it has, no optical on the HR34.


The specs on DTV say there is an optical, but it's stereo only.

BTW, do any HDMI cables come with this DVR and if so, are the the latest 3D compatible cables?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

jangell2 said:


> The specs on DTV say there is an optical, but it's stereo only.
> 
> BTW, do any HDMI cables come with this DVR and if so, are the the latest 3D compatible cables?


No cables come with any units now, AFAIK. I doubt there are cables now being manufactured that don't support 3D.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

jangell2 said:


> my Denon (2809ci) is a great receiver but too old to support 3D.
> 
> Do you think it's as good as if it were HDMI?
> 
> That's one vote for optical. Thanks for the info.


I wonder if you might rephrase the question?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"jangell2" said:


> The specs on DTV say there is an optical, but it's stereo only.
> 
> BTW, do any HDMI cables come with this DVR and if so, are the the latest 3D compatible cables?


There is no optical out on the HR34. Not sure where your seeing that but its wrong. And you will never see a unit from DIRECTV these days that's optical out and only stereo.


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## SteveHas (Feb 7, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Digital Coax, and that's the only one it has, no optical on the HR34.


some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

SteveHas said:


> some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best


Do you know what's behind their assertion? (I am just trying to get a greater understanding.)


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> There is no optical out on the HR34. Not sure where your seeing that but its wrong. And you will never see a unit from DIRECTV these days that's optical out and only stereo.


Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.com/technology/genie_receiver


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

SteveHas said:


> some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best


TOSLINK is a thirty year old technology. In most cases the audio quality should be nearly identical. They're both digital.

Additionally, if you need to a length longer than 15' TOSLINK is not recommended. The spec limit is 10m but the usual practical limit is 5-6m.

I know a few audiophiles who swear by TOSLINK for short runs.

I guess, depending on how you want to use it you could easily argue both sides.

Personally, I prefer digital coax. The cables are cheaper. 

Mike


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

jangell2 said:


> Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.com/technology/genie_receiver


If you're referring to S/PDIF, it's a spec that can be either TOSLINK, or coax (as well as STP and BNC). The only listed digital audio I see listed is coax.

You can see in the First Looks (Link) the HR34 does not have an optical connection. I have a TOSLINK/HDMI switch and have to use a coax to optical adapter from my HR34.

Mike


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Mike Bertelson said:


> TOSLINK is a thirty year old technology.


Really? I don't remember Toslink outputs on any of my AV equipment 20-30 years ago. I'm not doubting you, but I didn't think it was that old.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Really? I don't remember Toslink outputs on any of my AV equipment 20-30 years ago. I'm not doubting you, but I didn't think it was that old.


Toshiba released TOSLINK in 1983 to connect it's CD players to it's receivers. It used the S/PDIF optical connector. S/PDIF was a new spec from Sony & Philips that was introduced in 1980.

IIRC, TOSLINK is short for Toshiba Link but don't quote me on that. As S/PDIF became the industry wide standard through the 80's TOSLINK became more of generic term to the fiber optic audio cable.

This also makes all the single cable digital audio 30 years old.

Mike


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"jangell2" said:


> Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.com/technology/genie_receiver


Um, I just read that page, and under specs it says its coax digital out. No mention of Optical anywhere. And no where does it say its stereo only. It does say you can get stereo out of l/r analogue outs or the coax digital out though. Very different things than the way you are reading it.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"SteveHas" said:


> some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best


Yeah, but the truth is, that optical outs require more conversion than coax digital outs.... Unless you have one heck of a setup, you won't hear the difference. NAND I mean 10k and up audio system. Or your using the wolds worst digital coaxial audio cable...


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

I helped design the high end TAW DVD player over 10 years ago and the digital coax is definitely the better connection, or at least capable of being that anyway. The 2 main things we did to make it "high end" were adding an SDI Video output for connection to our TAW Rock+ Award Winning video scaler/ processor and the addition of a high speed, high bandwidth digital coax audio out (this is before HDMI, etc.). As an example today I think you can look at the Denon HDLink. I remember asking our owner/engineer the difference and he explained that the coax is more "pure" and the optical is derived from the coax signal, in other words the electrical coax signal is converted into light pulses for the optical cable and the only way he could get that performance, speed, bandwidth, etc. was to use coax, as TOSLINK optical wasn't able to handle it.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> The specs on DTV say there is an optical, but it's stereo only.
> 
> BTW, do any HDMI cables come with this DVR and if so, are the the latest 3D compatible cables?


There's no optical on the HR34.

http://hr20.dbstalk.com/docs/HR34-700 First Look.pdf


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

SteveHas said:


> some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best


Disagree with the fact that it doesn't have Optical? They can disagree all they want but as soon as they look at the back of one they'll see they are wrong.

As far as quality of signal they are nearly identical. What makes coax better is 1. it's better over longer runs and 2. it's not as fragile as optical.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.com/technology/genie_receiver


You may want to re-read that link. Nowhere does it mention optical, only coax.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

harperhometheater said:


> I helped design the high end TAW DVD player over 10 years ago and the digital coax is definitely the better connection, or at least capable of being that anyway. The 2 main things we did to make it "high end" were adding an SDI Video output for connection to our TAW Rock+ Award Winning video scaler/ processor and the addition of a high speed, high bandwidth digital coax audio out (this is before HDMI, etc.). As an example today I think you can look at the Denon HDLink. I remember asking our owner/engineer the difference and he explained that the coax is more "pure" and the optical is derived from the coax signal, in other words the electrical coax signal is converted into light pulses for the optical cable and the only way he could get that performance, speed, bandwidth, etc. was to use coax, as TOSLINK optical wasn't able to handle it.


Did the choice to use coax over TOSLINK have anything to do with jitter?

Mike


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Um, I just read that page, and under specs it says its coax digital out. No mention of Optical anywhere. And no where does it say its stereo only. It does say you can get stereo out of l/r analogue outs or the coax digital out though. Very different things than the way you are reading it.


Here's the quote:


> Audio Outputs
> 1 Digital (coaxial),
> 1 Stereo (L/R, RCA), 1 S/PDIF
> (COAX)


You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?

And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

jangell2 said:


> Here's the quote:
> 
> You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?
> 
> And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.


As I stated earlier, (link) S/PDIF is a spec that involves multiple connectors including TOSLINK and coax. 

Mike


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> Here's the quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's what it says alright but nowhere does it say optical. Read carefully, it says coax twice.


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

"Mike Bertelson" said:


> Did the choice to use coax over TOSLINK have anything to do with jitter?
> 
> Mike


Yes that too, here's the reasons why we did:

"TOSLINK has a couple of drawbacks that must be acknowledged and understood to maximize performance, however. First, the implementation of TOSLINK requires a change in format from an electrical to an optical medium. No such change, including similar changes from digital-to-analog or from analog-to-digital, is without cost. In the case of transforming the electrical data stream to an optical signal for use with a TOSLINK interconnect you will increase levels of both noise and distortion within the system. This decrease in fidelity may be especially pronounced with wide-bandwidth multi-channel signals.

A related drawback of the TOSLINK scheme is its tendency towards restricted bandwidth. Truncated bandwidth in an optical connection can cause signal interpolation and/or jitter, and thus compromise the sound. Selecting a high quality interconnect with a minimum 10MHz bandwidth ensures maximum compatibility with multi-channel sources such as a DTS-encrypted DVD...."

"...From the earliest days of compact disc to today many audio connoisseurs have considered the coaxial S/PDIF interconnect audibly superior to the optical TOSLINK format. Improvements in optical conductors have somewhat evened the playing field, but if your connection needs to be more than twenty feet or so in length you must consider the coaxial solution..."

From here: http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/understanding-digital-interconnects


----------



## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"jangell2" said:


> Here's the quote:
> 
> You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?
> 
> And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.


As mike points out, you are confusing a standard of s/pdif with a connection method. They are not the same. The funniest part about that to me, is in all the years I sold av receivers, I don't ever recall anyone pushing toslink or optical connections as s/pdif. They simply called it optical for the most part. Coax was the only one usually referred to as s/pdif and that was generally because they didn't want people to equate a digital coax connection with coax rf connections used for antenna cables and such.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> As mike points out, you are confusing a standard of s/pdif with a connection method. They are not the same. The funniest part about that to me, is in all the years I sold av receivers, I don't ever recall anyone pushing toslink or optical connections as s/pdif. They simply called it optical for the most part. Coax was the only one usually referred to as s/pdif and that was generally because they didn't want people to equate a digital coax connection with coax rf connections used for antenna cables and such.


Back in the 90's, and maybe early 2000's, the coax cables were marketed as S/PDIF cables. At the time I was working in Musical Instrument retail and that's how they were sold "S/PDIF Cables". It was entertaining to listen to the Pro Audio guys call them "SpahDiff" cables. lol


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Yeah, that's what it says alright but nowhere does it say optical. Read carefully, it says coax twice.


My problem was I thought s/pdif meant optical, period. I know different now. Thanks for the education, I'm a tiny bit smarter now.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

The HR34 was installed today and the tech took a long time to get it hooked with a signal. He installed a new LNB(?) on the dish and had to get into the attic because there was a junction box causing a problem in there.

Finally got it hooked up and since the tech left I noticed two problems. I kept getting the "Searching for...771" message over a perfectly good picture. It would stay there for several minutes and go away. One of the messages had a letter at the end of the number, forget what it was. But it's happened 3-4 times. Called DTV and they said to make sure connections were tight and reboot if that didn't fix it. Tightening didn't help so I've rebooted just a few moments ago. We'll see if that fixed it.

Another problem was that double wouldn't activate until after the reboot than it started working.

How long before the guide fills in. Right now there are big blanks in tonights schedule.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

Ok, another question which arrises out of the remote for the HR34 appearing to be identical to the one for my HR20. I have kept the HR20 because I have an external HD with a bunch of shows we want to watch.

Are the two remotes sending identical signals which will be received by to DVR's or are they sending different signals? I hope it's the latter.

Once I get everything settled in I plan on adding the HR34 to my Harmony 880 up for the HR34. I sure don't want the HR34 signals to be doing something to the HR20.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

You should definitely give it time to pull in the full Guide! 

Those remotes are the same signal, but there are ways to get around this other than just wide separation of the boxes. I've done this only once, so am not the guy to instruct you on this.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

Well, I've proven one thing: when I used the 880 programmed for the HR20, and press Playlist, up comes the playlist one HR34. That's got me worried.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> Well, I've proven one thing: when I used the 880 programmed for the HR20, and press Playlist, up comes the playlist one HR34. That's got me worried.


You'll need to either set one to use RF or set one to use an alternate IR codebase.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> You'll need to either set one to use RF or set one to use an alternate IR codebase.


How is that done? I wonder if the Harmony 880 can do RF?


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

Here's another oddity that occurred after (of course) the tech left. You know those radio, "this is a test, in case of an emergent..." things that you hear on the radio from time to time? I got one on the HR34 while I was tuned to HBO.

It took over the screen and the audio and made reference to the Los Angeles county sherif, I think it was. Obviously nothing that applied to Arkansas. Anyone else run into this?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> How is that done? I wonder if the Harmony 880 can do RF?


No, the Harmony 880 can't do RF.

In a nutshell what you need to do is cover the IR port of one of the units then switch to the other and set it up to use the "AV1" or "AV2" code setup. You'll then have to program your Harmony 880 using the learning feature.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> No, the Harmony 880 can't do RF.
> 
> In a nutshell what you need to do is cover the IR port of one of the units then switch to the other and set it up to use the "AV1" or "AV2" code setup. You'll then have to program your Harmony 880 using the learning feature.


Does the covered IR port remain covered permanently? I'm thinking not, right?

I might mosey on over to the logitech forums and see if they've got both code bases. If I could load the harmony with separate code bases for each DVR, that would work, wouldn't it? If they've got the code bases, that is.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Your HR20 and your HR34 are both capable of operating on any one of several IR codes, or on RF.

Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution. Also, if you activate whole-home service, you can watch all the recordings from the HR on your 34, and never have to do anything with regard to controlling the HR20. Or change it to another IR code, but again just use the DirecTV remote for the HR20 and you don't have to hassle with changing/adding to the Harmony.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> Does the covered IR port remain covered permanently? I'm thinking not, right?
> 
> I might mosey on over to the logitech forums and see if they've got both code bases. If I could load the harmony with separate code bases for each DVR, that would work, wouldn't it? If they've got the code bases, that is.


No, you only cover it while you program the other.

Way back when Logitech would let their users submit entries to their database. At that time I provided the alternate codebases and they were available to everyone. Lately logitech has only provided default remote codes. You'll have to "learn" the other codebase. It takes all of 5 minutes.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution.


I agree with this suggestion.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

carl6 said:


> Your HR20 and your HR34 are both capable of operating on any one of several IR codes, or on RF.
> 
> Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution. Also, if you activate whole-home service, you can watch all the recordings from the HR on your 34, and never have to do anything with regard to controlling the HR20. Or change it to another IR code, but again just use the DirecTV remote for the HR20 and you don't have to hassle with changing/adding to the Harmony.


I didn't know the HR20 and remote could do RF. I do like this idea the best.


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## Sandra (Apr 16, 2012)

So does anyone know approximately how many hours of HD recordings the hard drive will hold?

Also, if you are using PIP (a biggie for me...I'm a huge sports fan!), is it easy to toggle back and forth, making the 'little picture' large, and vice versa?

Thanks!


Sandra


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

"Sandra" said:


> .....Also, if you are using PIP (a biggie for me...I'm a huge sports fan!), is it easy to toggle back and forth, making the 'little picture' large, and vice versa?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sandra


Yes once you're in PiP it's easy, just toggle it by hitting the down arrow. This is also how you toggle the double play feature.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Sandra said:


> So does anyone know approximately how many hours of HD recordings the hard drive will hold?


I've got 80 hours of HD on mine right now, with 55% free, so that works out to about 177 hours. Almost half of my HD is MPEG-2 OTA, tho, so I'll bet 100% MPEG-4 is closer to 200 hours.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"Steve" said:


> I've got 80 hours of HD on mine right now, with 55% free, so that works out to about 177 hours. Almost half of my HD is MPEG-2 OTA, tho, so I'll bet 100% MPEG-4 is closer to 200 hours.


I think they say up to 200 in hd mpeg4 don't they?

Of course, if you add an esata drive, that could double, triple or more...


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

carl6 said:


> Your HR20 and your HR34 are both capable of operating on any one of several IR codes, or on RF.
> 
> Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution. Also, if you activate whole-home service, you can watch all the recordings from the HR on your 34, and never have to do anything with regard to controlling the HR20. Or change it to another IR code, but again just use the DirecTV remote for the HR20 and you don't have to hassle with changing/adding to the Harmony.


I went through the procedure of switching to RF on the HR20 but it doesn't work. The receiver doesn't respond to the remote at all. This may be because there's no RF antenna attached. I see a coaxial input on the back for RF. Would a set of rabbit ears, or one of those cheapie antennas that come in the box with a TV work?

Speaking of coaxial, I went shopping for a 10 foot digital coaxial cable yesterday. The 6 footer I have just barely reaches and I like to have room to spare, otherwise it's hard to pull out stuff to work on it. Apparently retailers in Little Rock believe we don't need anything longer the 6 feet, there isn't a cable longer than that.

More than once I was shown a regular coaxial cable, they often didn't realize there was such a thing as digital coax. I went to Home Depot, BB, and two Radio Shacks.

Sheesh!


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Local stores such as BB are notorious for selling incredibly overpriced cables. Even their "cheap" cables will be WAY overpriced. Unless you need it immediately you are much better of getting them on-line at Amazon, Monoprice, or Blue Jeans cable. You can get 10ft digital coaxial cables at Amazon for around $2....


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

jangell2 said:


> Speaking of coaxial, I went shopping for a 10 foot digital coaxial cable yesterday. The 6 footer I have just barely reaches and I like to have room to spare, otherwise it's hard to pull out stuff to work on it. Apparently retailers in Little Rock believe we don't need anything longer the 6 feet, there isn't a cable longer than that.
> 
> More than once I was shown a regular coaxial cable, they often didn't realize there was such a thing as digital coax. I went to Home Depot, BB, and two Radio Shacks.


That's because no one would buy anything over six feet at the prices they'd charge for such a cable in a big box store. 

Since you have a cable that is working in the meantime, and thus could tolerate a few days' shipping time, consider buying one of ideal length from Monoprice. Some are even made of RG6, and ten-footers are still under $5. Non-RG6 less than half that.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

What makes a coaxial cable "digital" or not? Is it the price, or is there really something in the specs?


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

TMan said:


> That's because no one would buy anything over six feet at the prices they'd charge for such a cable in a big box store.
> 
> Since you have a cable that is working in the meantime, and thus could tolerate a few days' shipping time, consider buying one of ideal length from Monoprice. Some are even made of RG6, and ten-footers are still under $5. Non-RG6 less than half that.


The rush was that I wanted to get back there today and hookup my AppleTV and the new coax. It is a freaking pain-in-the-ass to get back there and I won't trouble you with the details. I ordered the cable from Amazon on my phone while I was out shopping. Should have it tomorrow.

My question above about needing an antenna has been answered. I found an AM antenna in my box o' electronic junk and now RF works.

As to the difference between digital and non-digital coax, the digital ones have the phono style connectors for one. Not sure about other differences.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> What makes a coaxial cable "digital" or not? Is it the price, or is there really something in the specs?


Coaxial audio is always digital.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

RunnerFL said:


> Coaxial audio is always digital.


Thanks, but I was asking about the cable itself: Is the word "digital" added to make it sound more modern (sorta like a "digital TV stand") or are they in fact different from any other coax in the cabling?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, but I was asking about the cable itself: Is the word "digital" added to make it sound more modern (sorta like a "digital TV stand") or are they in fact different from any other coax in the cabling?


Interesting question you pose. Before things changed, you could use coax for analog signals from your TV antenna. We're using the same coax (OK, different sizes) for our digital signals.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, but I was asking about the cable itself: Is the word "digital" added to make it sound more modern (sorta like a "digital TV stand") or are they in fact different from any other coax in the cabling?


Still not sure I get you here... There's only one kind of Coax Audio and that's digital. Are you asking if there is a difference between a coax audio cable and RG6 coax? Yes, definitely different.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Still not sure I get you here... There's only one kind of Coax Audio and that's digital. Are you asking if there is a difference between a coax audio cable and RG6 coax? Yes, definitely different.


I actually tried to use a normal RG6 coax on my AVR and it didn't work. What do they put in the audio coax cables to make them different?

I remember MI (I think that's the right name, not sure) coax that we used in our powerhouse for something. When stripped, it looked just like any other coax but with a larger center wire. That stuff was old, really old. Like 1936 old.

Rich


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## TMan (Oct 31, 2007)

One could make a digital audio cable from RG6 coax, RG59 coax, or I imagine others. Are the cheap cables they sometimes include in, for example, a basic DVD player even technically coax at all?

I have made cables myself with bulk RG6 cable, some RCA/phono connectors, and a couple of hand tools. One carries digital audio from my DVD player to my AV receiver. Another carries the ".1" preamp signal from that receiver to my subwoofer. Another is mostly in the wall and carries composite video to my ceiling projector. I also have a bundled cable that consists of three RG6 cables in one sheath to carry component video to the projector.

For audio-video interconnects, I imagine the center conductor being copper-clad steel or solid copper doesn't matter too much. For carrying signals from a satellite dish to the satellite boxes in the house, or for the cable company service drop, the conductor would matter.

RG59 is mostly considered inadequate for wiring a home for cable/satellite distribution these days, but you could still make a-v interconnects with it. The Monoprice link I posted above has both RG6- and RG59-based cables.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rich said:


> I actually tried to use a normal RG6 coax on my AVR and it didn't work. What do they put in the audio coax cables to make them different?
> 
> I remember MI (I think that's the right name, not sure) coax that we used in our powerhouse for something. When stripped, it looked just like any other coax but with a larger center wire. That stuff was old, really old. Like 1936 old.
> 
> Rich


Well I think the confusion lies in the assumption that solid core coax (RG-58, RG-59, RG-6, etc) is the only "coax" there is. Any cable with two "axis", aka conductors, is coaxial. Technically your standard L/R (White/Red) RCA cables are coax as well. You just don't see people calling them that. That's why I do my best to call it RG-6 instead of "coax".

Coaxial cable has a wire conductor in the centre (solid or stranded) a circumferential outer conductor and an insulating medium called the dielectric separating these two conductors.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

TMan said:


> Are the cheap cables they sometimes include in, for example, a basic DVD player even technically coax at all?


If they weren't coaxial, 2 conductor, they wouldn't work.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Thanks, Gents and Ladies.

I am clear now on the nomenclature, but not clear on why a well made RG6 cable with RCA style plugs wouldn't work as a "digital audio cable". Or, in fact, why an old "analog" RCA cable wouldn't work for _*short*_ runs of digital audio if the quality of the wires was good (and no big outside interference, etc.)


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Well I think the confusion lies in the assumption that solid core coax (RG-58, RG-59, RG-6, etc) is the only "coax" there is. Any cable with two "axis", aka conductors, is coaxial. Technically your standard L/R (White/Red) RCA cables are coax as well. You just don't see people calling them that. That's why I do my best to call it RG-6 instead of "coax".
> 
> *Coaxial cable has a wire conductor in the centre (solid or stranded) a circumferential outer conductor and an insulating medium called the dielectric separating these two conductors.*


*I know all that!*

No electrician worth his salt would confuse RCA cables with what we think of as coax. Still, that didn't stop me from wondering if the digital audio coax doesn't have two conductors instead of one. What is the difference between audio coax and RG6? I've never stripped an audio coax and I really don't know the difference.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, Gents and Ladies.
> 
> I am clear now on the nomenclature, but not clear on why a well made RG6 cable with RCA style plugs wouldn't work as a "digital audio cable". Or, in fact, why an old "analog" RCA cable wouldn't work for _*short*_ runs of digital audio if the quality of the wires was good (and no big outside interference, etc.)


I dunno either, but I had a hell of a time putting (jamming, cramming, trimming, squeezing) that cable into an RCA plug. One of my "unlazy" days. And after all that, it didn't work. I think I also tried a regular RCA cable too and that didn't work either.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, Gents and Ladies.
> 
> I am clear now on the nomenclature, but not clear on why a well made RG6 cable with RCA style plugs wouldn't work as a "digital audio cable". Or, in fact, why an old "analog" RCA cable wouldn't work for _*short*_ runs of digital audio if the quality of the wires was good (and no big outside interference, etc.)


I'm not sure about an RG-6 cable but an old, as you call it, "analog RCA cable" should work as a temporary measure. It's just the quality of it isn't going to be as good as a cable made for a S/PDIF signal.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rich said:


> No electrician worth his salt would confuse RCA cables with what we think of as coax.


Maybe not, but they are technically both "coax".



Rich said:


> Still, that didn't stop me from wondering if the digital audio coax doesn't have two conductors instead of one.


You didn't read what I posted I guess.. The DO have two conductors. If they didn't have two conductors they wouldn't be "coax". Co = 2 axial = axis/conductor

Again, coax isn't just the solid core RG cables.



Rich said:


> What is the difference between audio coax and RG6? I've never stripped an audio coax and I really don't know the difference.


One is solid core the other is stranded.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

The Coax Audio cables that monoprice sells use RG6/U, the U being unbalanced. Maybe that's why plain RG6 doesn't work. Also if you've ever held a coax audio cable you'll realize it's not a solid core cable.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2680&seq=1&format=2


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm not sure about an RG-6 cable but an old, as you call it, "analog RCA cable" should work as a temporary measure. It's just the quality of it isn't going to be as good as a cable made for a S/PDIF signal.


Absolutely. In fact, a non-coax cable could work there, but would be the worst of the temporary connections.

I didn't think about it until you posted it that RCA cables were coax. At least the cheapest looking one I had is when I axed it for the sake of science.....


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Maybe not, but they are technically both "coax".


Wasn't disagreeing, just an opinion.



> You didn't read what I posted I guess.. The DO have two conductors. If they didn't have two conductors they wouldn't be "coax". Co = 2 axial = axis/conductor


I wasn't clear. I thought there might be two solid conductors in the audio cable separated by the dielectric.



> One is solid core the other is stranded.


What's the difference? I know from an electrician's POV, 12AWG is the same, stranded or solid.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Laxguy said:


> Absolutely. In fact, a non-coax cable could work there, but would be the worst of the temporary connections.
> 
> I didn't think about it until you posted it that RCA cables were coax. At least the cheapest looking one I had is when I axed it for the sake of science.....


Any 2 conductor wire should work but how good it sounds it what matters most. :lol:


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rich said:


> What's the difference? I know from an electrician's POV, 12AWG is the same, stranded or solid.


I'm searching for specs but from what I've been able to gather (without chopping up my S/PDIF cables) is that they have a 7 conductor stranded center core. Other than that they appear to be the same as your "standard" RG6 as far as the braided outter core.

They are both listed as "75 ohm coax".

UPDATE: What's the difference? Apparently the type of coax used for connecting satellite and antenna feeds are "a completely different kettle of fish". Does that explain it enough? :lol:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/digital-audio-connections-coaxial-and-optical.html


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"RunnerFL" said:


> I'm searching for specs but from what I've been able to gather (without chopping up my S/PDIF cables) is that they have a 7 conductor stranded center core. Other than that they appear to be the same as your "standard" RG6 as far as the braided outter core.
> 
> They are both listed as "75 ohm coax".
> 
> ...


I find this somewhat odd. I have never put RCA connectors on rg6 sat coax and tried it for digital coax connections, but I would think it should work, for that works fine for regular composite video from what I have seen, and composite video cables work fine for digital coax cables, which I have tried.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I'm searching for specs but from what I've been able to gather (without chopping up my S/PDIF cables) is that they have a 7 conductor stranded center core. Other than that they appear to be the same as your "standard" RG6 as far as the braided outter core.
> 
> They are both listed as "75 ohm coax".
> 
> ...


I keep trying to put this stuff in an electrical context so I can understand it and I think that's how this got so confused.

Rich


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

It's not necessarily the cable that matters, it's the impedance. "Coaxial digital" audio signals are designed to work best on 75 ohm coaxial cables, the exact same ones used for composite video and each channel of a component YUV/YCbCr/YPbPr cable. The type of connector (RCA, BNC, F-type) just depends on what the manufacturer decides to use and doesn't matter a lick as long as they are also 75 ohm impedance. If they aren't then the signal "should" still work (like if you use the cheap throw in the box cables) but you will have signal issues like reflections, impedance mismatches, jitter, ghosting, etc. If those issues become too great for the decoding end to overcome then the signal will fail.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I find this somewhat odd. I have never put RCA connectors on rg6 sat coax and tried it for digital coax connections, but I would think it should work, for that works fine for regular composite video from what I have seen, and composite video cables work fine for digital coax cables, which I have tried.


I couldn't do it. I put soldered jumpers on the other end and it just wouldn't work. It rang out correctly for continuity, for whatever that's worth. That was quite a while ago and I think it was an upscaling DVD player that only had a digital audio cable output on it.

So, after going thru all that, I could have just used a composite wire? Geeze, that doesn't seem fair... :lol:

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

harperhometheater said:


> It's not the cable that matters it's the impedance. "Coaxial" digital audio signals are designed to work best on 75 ohm coaxial cables, the exact same ones used for composite video. The type of connector (RCA, BNC, F-type) don't matter a lick as long as they are also 75 ohm impedance. If they aren't then the signal should still work ( like if you use cheap throw in the box cables) but you will just have signal issues like reflections, impedance mismatches, jitter, ghosting, etc. If those issues become too great for the decoding end to overcome then the signal will fail.


If S/PDIF is a 75ohm coax what is the standard RG6 we use for SAT signals?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rich said:


> I couldn't do it. I put soldered jumpers on the other end and it just wouldn't work. It rang out correctly for continuity, for whatever that's worth. That was quite a while ago and I think it was an upscaling DVD player that only had a digital audio cable output on it.
> 
> So, after going thru all that, I could have just used a composite wire? Geeze, that doesn't seem fair... :lol:
> 
> Rich


You could have used composite, yes, but there's no guarantee you would have had great audio. :lol:


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

"RunnerFL" said:


> If S/PDIF is a 75ohm coax what is the standard RG6 we use for SAT signals?


75 ohm as well. RG6 is a cable designed for higher frequencies than low level audio and video interconnects, but should still work. That's why they have quad shield RG-6 because at higher frequencies the cable starts acting like an antenna and starts radiating the signal out of the dielectric and shielding, I.e. skin effect. This is exactly why there is indeed some differences in cheap vs well designed and constructed cables like JPS Labs, Monster, etc. but of course they go overboard with their claims and prices and if you look hard enough will find affordable well made and designed cables elsewhere (monoprice, blue jeans, etc.)


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

"RunnerFL" said:


> You could have used composite, yes, but there's no guarantee you would have had great audio. :lol:


Yes it would have been, IF the cable was designed correctly at 75 ohms impedance! Composite video cables and digital audio cables are EXACTLY the same.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Laxguy said:


> Thanks, but I was asking about the cable itself: Is the word "digital" added to make it sound more modern (sorta like a "digital TV stand") or are they in fact different from any other coax in the cabling?


I took the three wire cable with the yellow/white/red connectors (standard composite video, R/L audio cable) and used it to connect digital coax to my A/V system. It's nothing special and it works great. The yellow composite video is a 75Ω coax cable with RCA connectors.

Mike


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

That kinda tops it up! So the word "digital" is market speak, and there's no difference between a well made "analog coax" and a so called "digital coax."
Interesting discussion none-the-less.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> That kinda tops it up! So the word "digital" is market speak, and there's no difference between a well made "analog coax" and a so called "digital coax."
> Interesting discussion none-the-less.


Exactly true. Just like there is no such thing as a "digital" tv antenna, or an "HD" tv antenna. All market speak.

A rose by any other name is still a rose.


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## harperhometheater (Aug 31, 2012)

carl6 said:


> A rose by any other name is still a rose.


And so is a turd


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

carl6 said:


> Exactly true. Just like there is no such thing as a "digital" tv antenna, or an "HD" tv antenna. All market speak.
> 
> A rose by any other name is still a rose.


Ok, now you're gonna tell me those "HD" sunglasses that were being sold on TV aren't really high definition? :lol:


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

jangell2 said:


> Ok, now you're gonna tell me those "HD" sunglasses that were being sold on TV aren't really high definition? :lol:


The ones that are digital are.....


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

Got a question about the two 90 minute buffers. My HR20 constantly kept one buffer going, no matter it was in stand-by mode or not. It seems the HR34 does not. When I start it up in the morning, there is no buffer, is this the designed behavior?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> Got a question about the two 90 minute buffers. My HR20 constantly kept one buffer going, no matter it was in stand-by mode or not. It seems the HR34 does not. When I start it up in the morning, there is no buffer, is this the designed behavior?


Some may lead you to beleive it's designed behavior and the rest of us think it's a bug. Sometimes there is a buffer, sometimes there is not. If what we are seeing is designed behavior then there should never be a buffer at all.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Some may lead you to beleive it's designed behavior and the rest of us think it's a bug. Sometimes there is a buffer, sometimes there is not. If what we are seeing is designed behavior then there should never be a buffer at all.


What I would have liked to see was a user selectable period of time in which a buffer would not be kept. Let me choose between the hours of 11pm-7am to not carry a buffer. The idea being to cut down on the HD drive activity and increase it's lifespan and reliability.

When no buffer is being kept, do we know what the HD is doing, is it spinning down or constantly running?

I'm going to pay closer attention, but so far, I don't think I've ever seen a buffer in the morning.


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## jangell2 (Apr 6, 2004)

An update to my using the DTV remote for the HR20 and the Harmony for the HR34. Whenever it would use the Harmony to go from the HR20 to HR34, everything was fine, the HR34 powered on...and then it would shut off.

I was really perplexed about this until I realized the Harmony was attempting to shut of the HR20 (it couldn't, its on RF) but was succeeding in shutting off the HR34 which was not a desirable behavior when trying to watch the HR34.

So I updated to the remote to leave the HR20 on and now it get the results I want.

It was a Homer Simpson "Doh!" moment.


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## dennisj00 (Sep 27, 2007)

Hard drive activity has very litte effect on the life of the hard drive. Power cycles, extreme temperatures or mechanical shock are far bigger factors in hard drive life.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

jangell2 said:


> What I would have liked to see was a user selectable period of time in which a buffer would not be kept. Let me choose between the hours of 11pm-7am to not carry a buffer. The idea being to cut down on the HD drive activity and increase it's lifespan and reliability.
> 
> When no buffer is being kept, do we know what the HD is doing, is it spinning down or constantly running?
> 
> I'm going to pay closer attention, but so far, I don't think I've ever seen a buffer in the morning.


Spinning a drive up and down is more wear and tear on the drive than just letting it spin 24/7.


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