# Soccer headlines I didn't even know about!



## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/football/06/09/spain.real.kaka.ronaldo/index.html

I was shocked when I read this and especially the one about Cristiano Ronaldo. I think that it will be a bad move for Kaka.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/football/06/08/transfer.targets/index.html

The 20 most wanted footballers


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

Hah! Real can have the world's greatest crybaby! Viva Barca!


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

Lol, Barca played really good this year. I will have to give it up to them and I am happy they won both La Liga and Champions League. Now, ronaldo is a cry baby but Kaka isn't. I don't think i've ever read an article where he is crying about something or when playing.


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## DawgLink (Nov 5, 2006)

That money is just sick

wow


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

He is sold!!!



> Manchester United have accepted an £80m ($131.6m or €93.9m) offer from Real Madrid for Cristiano Ronaldo.


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=654097&sec=transfers&cc=5901


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

DawgLink said:


> That money is just sick
> 
> wow


Yes, that's saying something especially in this economy.

With the way things are going, like media such as Setanta going under, I would expect valuations of clubs, players, transfer fees etc. to flatten out. Maybe transfer fees will be lagging indicators and by winter transfer market, things might get very quiet. Scottish league is already very worried about their survival due to Setanta greed fallout. Anyone willing to bet that in the next few months a mid to low profile English Premiership club might face survival risk due to this cycle of greed?


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## dhines (Aug 16, 2006)

Chandu said:


> Yes, that's saying something especially in this economy.
> 
> With the way things are going, like media such as Setanta going under, I would expect valuations of clubs, players, transfer fees etc. to flatten out. Maybe transfer fees will be lagging indicators and by winter transfer market, things might get very quiet. Scottish league is already very worried about their survival due to Setanta greed fallout. Anyone willing to bet that in the next few months a mid to low profile English Premiership club might face survival risk due to this cycle of greed?


whats with the greed theme? setanta is dying because they positioned themself incorrectly . . . how can a channel have no path to HD, yet expect people to pay $15 for the channel? bad business moves get teams in trouble, not greed.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

dhines said:


> whats with the greed theme? setanta is dying because they positioned themself incorrectly . . . how can a channel have no path to HD, yet expect people to pay $15 for the channel? bad business moves get teams in trouble, not greed.




Huh?? Are you seriously telling me with a straight face that all these big media guys (Setanta, Sky, ESPN ...) or big football owners (Malcolm Glazer, Roman Abramovich, Silvio Berlusconi ...) are not driven by greed?

Heck, couple of years ago the Real Madrid owners and their media partner in crime guys were so greedy; they were refusing to even allow transmission of matches involving Real Madrid anywhere in the world. They had an enforced blackout due to some crappy ongoing lawsuit, that even people in Spain couldn't watch Real Madrid playing for 2-3 weeks. Talk about wanting to bite the hand that feeds you.

In case of Setanta, what they tried with media rights intended for transmission in UK was nothing short of greedy. They attempted to bite more than they could chew. They bid absurd sums of money they never had for rights to Scottish League, French League, for cricket the Indian Premier League, for Rugby Union the Heineken Cup, rights for golf events based in USA and on and on and on. They never had the money. It was artificial money on paper, just like AIG, Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns. And their only motivation was greed, wanting to topple their other greedy competitior Sky; nothing else.

New car, caviar, four-star daydream, think I'll buy me a football team!!! - Roger Waters.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Chicken feed.

Baseball contracts hit the $250M mark some time ago with Alex Rodriguez.

...and that's guaranteed money, whether he played or not. Are soccer contracts the same way?


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

djlong said:


> Chicken feed.
> 
> Baseball contracts hit the $250M mark some time ago with Alex Rodriguez.
> 
> ...and that's guaranteed money, whether he played or not. Are soccer contracts the same way?


Yes, most players are paid wheather they play or not. I really dont know if they have any clauses but I know coaches have oppurtunities to make more money if they win a trophy.


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## dhines (Aug 16, 2006)

Chandu said:


> Huh?? Are you seriously telling me with a straight face that all these big media guys (Setanta, Sky, ESPN ...) or big football owners (Malcolm Glazer, Roman Abramovich, Silvio Berlusconi ...) are not driven by greed?
> 
> Heck, couple of years ago the Real Madrid owners and their media partner in crime guys were so greedy; they were refusing to even allow transmission of matches involving Real Madrid anywhere in the world. They had an enforced blackout due to some crappy ongoing lawsuit, that even people in Spain couldn't watch Real Madrid playing for 2-3 weeks. Talk about wanting to bite the hand that feeds you.
> 
> ...


if they were driven only by greed, the owners would not be in the sports business . . . it is not a profitable as other forms of business. personally i think the selling of players is a good thing, not a greed thing. just because a guy wants to get paid, that isn't greed . . . that is capitalism. when a player is sold it allows for the selling team to re-invest that money into other weaknesses on the team.

i assume you have a job and enjoy getting paid. i also assume that you factor in how much your employer is willing to pay when deciding whether or not to take the job. does that make you a greedy person? i don't get how we are allowed to enjoy making money, but athletes are supposed to play for the love of the game and not enjoy being paid well.

maybe you are one of those types that thinks capitalism is bad, i don't . . . in fact without all of the money flowing into football (soccer), alot of these world class players would be playing basketball or some other sport.

btw, i think american football is the only sport that has non-guaranteed salaries . . . and this is due to the high risk of injury.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

dhines said:


> personally i think the selling of players is a good thing, not a greed thing. just because a guy wants to get paid, that isn't greed . . . that is capitalism.


I fully understand what is capitalism. But just like the out-of-control subprime mortgage mess, I do understand the difference between capitalism and greed as well. When the wants of "haves" can get so out of control, that they start threatening the foundations of the system (in this case, existence of mid-level club football teams), it is not capitalism. It becomes greed. And I'm glad I'm not the only one, rather UEFA boss Michel Platini agrees with me as well. What he is saying is not socialism. He is rightfully worried about sound existence of top-level English and Spanish and Italian and ..... club level league system, if debts driven by greed start getting out of control.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/football/06/12/platini.ronaldo.transfer.finances/?iref=mpstoryview



> Michel Platini, the president of the governing body for European football (UEFA), has hit out at the large fee offered by Real Madrid for the Portugal playmaker Cristiano Ronaldo.
> 
> English Premier League side Manchester United announced on June 11 that they had accepted a world record transfer fee of $130M for the 24-year-old from the Spanish side.
> 
> ...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1192378/UEFA-chief-Michel-Platini-blasts-Real-Madrids-80m-bid-Manchester-United-star-Cristiano-Ronaldo-Englands-fault.html



> Platini is a critic of the level of debt carried by the Barclays Premier League 'Big Four' of Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal - estimated recently at £2bn - and wants powers to bar debt-laden clubs from the Champions League and newly formed Europa League.
> 
> He called Manchester City's £100m bid to sign Kaka from AC Milan in January 'ridiculous from a social, football and financial point of view'.
> 
> ...


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

djlong said:


> Chicken feed.
> 
> Baseball contracts hit the $250M mark some time ago with Alex Rodriguez?


Do you understand the difference between "transfer fee" and "player contract"? Transfer fee is something the club owner(s) get to keep. It doesn't have to be tied to player salary. In most cases it does, but not necessarily proportionally. They are definitely not one and the same things.


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## dhines (Aug 16, 2006)

Chandu said:


> I fully understand what is capitalism. But just like the out-of-control subprime mortgage mess, I do understand the difference between capitalism and greed as well.


as a former employee of countrywide i will say this . . . greed isn't what brought on the subprime mess, it was the corruption of politicians and CEO's. i don't see that these player moves have anything to do with corruption.

btw, regarding player sales i don't think they have any impact on mid level teams. i will say that i think a better job has to be done of dividing up the tv revenue and competition monies. those two things have a huge impact on either stabilizing or de-stabilizing the mid level clubs. all clubs benefit from player sales. don't you think everton benefited from selling rooney? player sales are a good thing as they encourage player development. where work needs to be done is better revenue distribution and ensuring that a rich sugar daddy cant use personal money to buy any player they want (chelsea).

if an owner wants to use personal money, it should go on the books as a loan. furthermore, their has to be a requirement of some kind of debt to revenue ratio.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

How did it go from Cristiano Ronaldo to greed?


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

dhines said:


> as a former employee of countrywide i will say this . . . greed isn't what brought on the subprime mess, it was the corruption of politicians and CEO's.


Greed breeds corruption. You can't separate one from the other.



> btw, regarding player sales i don't think they have any impact on mid level teams. i will say that i think a better job has to be done of dividing up the tv revenue and competition monies. those two things have a huge impact on either stabilizing or de-stabilizing the mid level clubs. all clubs benefit from player sales. don't you think everton benefited from selling rooney? player sales are a good thing as they encourage player development.


Are you kidding me? As clubs like Real Madrid or Chelsea glutton up (at one point when Real had all 3 of Zidane, Figo, Beckham on the roster and one or 2 of them would be sitting on the bench twiddling their thumbs), do you think the likes of Everton or Espanyol ever have any hope of representation in the Champions League? Don't you know the incredible financial difference it makes between making to Champions League or not? The TV money pot for Champions League is huge, not to mention other impacts on gate receipts, merchandise sales and on and on. BTW, not all of the transfer money gets allocated properly to youth development structure or stadium infrastructure either. It's up to the club owners, and the greedy ones would rather not spend it.



turey22 said:


> How did it go from Cristiano Ronaldo to greed?


Haha, that's a good one. Of course!! :lol:


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Chandu said:


> Do you understand the difference between "transfer fee" and "player contract"? Transfer fee is something the club owner(s) get to keep. It doesn't have to be tied to player salary. In most cases it does, but not necessarily proportionally. They are definitely not one and the same things.


Ah, so this situation was more like when the Boston Red Sox paid $51M for the *rights* to negotiate with Daisuke Matsuzaka - whom they then had to sign to a contract (which was another $50M). The Japanese team that Matsuzaka played for got the first $51M.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

djlong said:


> Ah, so this situation was more like when the Boston Red Sox paid $51M for the *rights* to negotiate with Daisuke Matsuzaka - whom they then had to sign to a contract (which was another $50M). The Japanese team that Matsuzaka played for got the first $51M.


Yes, you got it. This "situation" is actually very routine in the world of club soccer (association football).


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Well, in a way, I guess it's good to see that we Americans don't have a monopoly on sports dollar lunacy.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

djlong said:


> Well, in a way, I guess it's good to see that we Americans don't have a monopoly on sports dollar lunacy.


Nah, not at all but the amounts some of the American sports are paying the players are just crazy!


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## liverpool (Jan 29, 2007)

If you new how much of a dump manchester is you would not want to live there.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

liverpool said:


> If you new how much of a dump manchester is you would not want to live there.


Says the guy with handle of "liverpool" :lol: Oh, the irony!!!

Both Manchester and Liverpool are hard, blue-collar cities in the Northwest (also including Bolton, most of Lancashire, e.g. Blackburn etc.) Even the Beatles made this blue collar aspect of Liverpool docks/Merseyside very famous.

But in fairness to your point, yes - that was one of the reasons David Beckham gave as well wanting to move from Man Utd to Real Madrid. That the weather he would be moving to would be so much better and sunny compared to depressing Northwest England.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

Chandu said:


> Says they guy with handle of "liverpool" :lol: Oh, the irony!!!


LOL


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

All I know about Manchester UK is what I learned from watching "Life On Mars". "Blue Collar" indeed. 

Oddly enough, I live just 15 miles south of Manchester, New Hampshire (US).


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

djlong said:


> Oddly enough, I live just 15 miles south of Manchester, New Hampshire (US).


Having been to both Manchester, England and Manchester, New Hampshire, I can assure you that they're nothing like each other. Of course, Manchester, England is much bigger, a real city with a "real" international airport and what not. Its roots have been "blue-collar" for the longest of times, originating with the cotton mills of old days. But now it's a lot more cosmopolitan.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

Ummm. Uhhh.. Yeah! We have an international airport too! (Ok, the only international flights are to Canada). 

But in all seriousness, Manchester has it's roots in textile mills as well. Most of the old mill buildings are still there and many are finding new life after renovations.

The textile industry pretty much vanished up here in the 1960s.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

djlong said:


> Ummm. Uhhh.. Yeah! We have an international airport too! (Ok, the only international flights are to Canada).


Funny, I lived close to Bangor, Maine for a number of years and that used to be their claim to fame too. 

Interestingly, there is also a city in Wales called Bangor, which is what Bangor, Maine is named after. But Bangor, Maine is bigger than Bangor, Wales. And no, I've never been to Bangor, Wales. :lol:

Back on topic:

For smaller leagues like the Scottish league and a lot of mid-tier clubs in English top-flight league, the Setanta mess has had a domino effect, totally messing up their summer transfer market.

http://www.highland-news.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/5783/Setanta_changes_transfer_market.html



> "A lot of clubs are in limbo because of the Setanta troubles, so we're not in a desperate rush to bring players in. It means players are also in limbo because some Premier League clubs are waiting for a resolution before committing to buying players."


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