# SPEEDHD (Charlie let us down)



## racermurray

From speedtv.com 


SPEED will make its move to High Definition in 2008, beginning Feb. 7 with 100 hours of NASCAR on SPEED HD from Daytona Speedweeks. Starting with the Gatorade Duel 150’s on SPEED, the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series race, NASCAR RaceDay and all of the other programming SPEED will deliver surrounding the 50th Anniversary of the Daytona 500, it is one of our most visible times of the year for the network and the perfect time to launch our move to HD. SPEED already offers some of the most action-filled programming on television and the move to HD in 2008 enhances all of it exponentially.”


C'mon DISH...lets get the ball rollin on adding SPEED HD 


Murray


----------



## ssmith10pn

41 days till Daytona.

My wife is a Nascar nut. Looks like Hot Pass will be in HD also.
God I don't want to switch to D*


----------



## davethestalker

I've posted my remarks many times.


Hmm, I wonder if Jack Roush is a fan of Dish HD? Maybe if Jack told Charlie to get Speed HD up and running so the Dish Network advertising on those Fusions would have a meaningful impact. I'm sure Boyer's 07 will be smothered in DirecTV HD advertising. I hope we won't see another embarrassment like we did for the MLB Playoffs.

GO TOYOTA!!!


----------



## champion6

Let me add my voice to the chorus --- gimme SPEED HD ASAP!!! (meaning NOW!!!)


----------



## Jambals

Yes it should would be nice before speedweeks kicks off


----------



## phantommadman

C,mon E* Please give us *SPEED HD* in time for Speed Weeks.:grin:


----------



## Bubba3

Gimme Speed HD and Harrisburg locals in HD . I can't get Fox HD OTA at my location looks like an other year of SD Daytona , this getting old.


----------



## He Save Dave

me want speed hd


----------



## CoriBright

Yes please.... F1 in HD would be WONDERFUL!!!


----------



## peano

SPEED HD is the one channel that I would switch to D* for. Dish, you have 39 days, or I am gone.


----------



## davethestalker

peano said:


> SPEED HD is the one channel that I would switch to D* for. Dish, you have 39 days, or I am gone.


Call Dish, let them know. I have.


----------



## texaswolf

peano said:


> SPEED HD is the one channel that I would switch to D* for. Dish, you have 39 days, or I am gone.


plan ahead for the install, so you don't take the chance on missing it..i would only give them 32 more days...gives you time for errors, so your good to go come speed week!


----------



## davethestalker

Honestly, Charlie spends millions to sponsor Jack Roush's cars. He wouldn't just let this SpeedHD thing slip through his fingers. Would he?


----------



## texaswolf

Charlie would never let anything (MLB) slide through his fingers!


----------



## ssmith10pn

38days 13hours 12minutes 16seconds to Daytona.


----------



## davethestalker

Playing the Daytona track on GT5 Prologue kicks major (_|_)!!!! It's by far better than any "NASCAR" game EA has ever put out.


----------



## bobukcat

davethestalker said:


> Playing the Daytona track on GT5 Prologue kicks major (_|_)!!!! It's by far better than any "NASCAR" game EA has ever put out.


Okay, this is way OT but how did you get GT5 already, it's not supposed to release until March?? I d/l the demo which frickin rocks but it's only one track, a few cars, etc. etc.


----------



## davethestalker

Japanese import. There are menu translations on the Playstation GT board and on GTPlanet. The only concrete factual release information there is about the US release is "Spring 2008" according to SCEA. Until SCEA announces the specific date, any mention of a specific date is speculation. Just as the Amazon date of Feb. 19 is speculation and wishful thinking.

I ordered from eBay through "egamestar" which is AKA "JapanVideoGames.com". I ordered on last Thursday, they shipped it on Friday and I got it on Monday. From Cali. to Michigan via standard USPS. Total was about $56.

The game is not all in Japanese. It's mixed. Once you get the essentials down, you know what you're doing anyway. There have been some translations for the "News" section.

You could also import it yourself through PlayAsia for about the same price, but it will take much longer. JVG is an importer.

I was waiting for some sort of info about the release....anything. Kaz had said in an interview before the JPN release that it would be "After the holidays" for us. SCEA said last week, "Spring" would be our time. So, I jumped online and ordered it. Spring does last until June 19, some people forget that.

It's funny, on the Daytona leaderboard tower at the track, NEXTEL is still the title sponsor.


----------



## davethestalker

SCEA has set up a page just for GT5 Prologue.

It's making me sick to watch PreSeason Thunder and having to hear "Sponsored by DirecTV".


----------



## videomagician

If I could post a link I would, but just read this on The Daly Planet posted Jan. 9, 2008:

"For Home Dish owners, SPEED HD will be carried by DirecTV from the start, and negotiations are on-going with Dish Network. SPEED HD for the satellite viewers will be added to the program line-up and then appear on the channel menu."

David


----------



## davethestalker

It's bad enough that D* has the Track Pass (or whatever they call it), we don't even have a choice whether or not to get that. Now, there are "on-going negotiations"? I can't imagine Fox/Speed would want more than D* is paying to carry the channel.

What the freak is Charlie's problem? Is he broke or something?


----------



## Schizm

CoriBright said:


> Yes please.... F1 in HD would be WONDERFUL!!!


right there with yah. We would be able to see how CFD work changes the chassis week to week.

I will say, I've watched more NASCAR this past season that I have my entire life. It's attributed 100% to Juan Pablo Montoya and seeing him take a checkered on an oval in 720p would rule  .

I sent in an email a few days after D* announced their upconvert channel and got a response saying they'd forward it to the programming ppl. This is the one channel I want in HD that we do not have.


----------



## BopMan

Anybody got any news on Speed HD... time is getting short! I have no commitments and D* is starting to look good. I've been putting off moving to D* for two months because of the bad stuff I've read about their DVRs but programming is more important to me and I think they have the edge... IMHO.


----------



## melmsrt4

Any word on the MotoGP, and AMA Superbike HD lineup?


----------



## RoyD

seems its not just Dish
SPEED will introduce their HD broadcast at the live coverage of the Anaheim opener for those who have DIRECTV where SPEED is available in HD. SPEED will be rolling out Hi-Def technology to other providers on March 1.


Boogity,boogity,boogity!!

Let's go >>>racin boys


----------



## Redlinetire

Yea, I just read that March 1st date too.

I hope Dish does pick it up. I might just switch from DirecTV. Not too happy with the quality of their hardware.


----------



## davethestalker

March???? My urgency to have Speed HD pretty much goes down by 90% once the NASCAR season is in full swing after SpeedWeeks.

I wonder if Fox's portion of the Rolex 24 coverage will be in HD this year? 'Cuz, I know we won't be seeing any of it in HD on Speed!!!

BTW...the Daytona infield track is hard, it's really really flat.


----------



## JohnL

Redlinetire said:


> Yea, I just read that March 1st date too.
> 
> I hope Dish does pick it up. I might just switch from DirecTV. Not too happy with the quality of their hardware.


Redlinetire,

I love your avatar. I only wish Fox had not purchased Speedvision and turned into what it is now "SPEED".

Speed is a shell of what it was when it was Speedvision.

Speedvision was about EVERYTHING motor racing including Boat Racing, Superbike and more. I loved the Boating shows they used to carry. FOX's Speed Coverage of NASCAR is good, but does it need to be 15 plus hours per day. I hardly ever watch Speed anymore. The only reason to watch Speed is for F1 coverage and an occasional NASCAR replay.

John


----------



## Redlinetire

JohnL said:


> Redlinetire,
> 
> I love your avatar. I only wish Fox had not purchased Speedvision and turned into what it is now "SPEED".
> 
> Speed is a shell of what it was when it was Speedvision.
> 
> Speedvision was about EVERYTHING motor racing including Boat Racing, Superbike and more. I loved the Boating shows they used to carry. FOX's Speed Coverage of NASCAR is good, but does it need to be 15 plus hours per day. I hardly ever watch Speed anymore. The only reason to watch Speed is for F1 coverage and an occasional NASCAR replay.
> 
> John


Yea, you should visit the forums over at speedtv.com, lots of unhappy people with the direction the channel has taken.

I too only have it for F1 and some of the sports racing when they decide to show it.

Rumour a few months ago was that the guy that originally started SpeedVision was starting up a new channel called "The Racing Network":
http://theracingnetwork.com

But it's been quiet for a while, don't know if it's going to actually take off.

BTW, davethestalker, the Rolex will NOT be in HD this year according to what I've heard. Speed is increasing the amount of coverage though, with some on the Fox network. Of course that just means my local station will pre-empt it with an infomercial! :lol:


----------



## James Long

RoyD said:


> seems its not just Dish
> SPEED will introduce their HD broadcast at the live coverage of the Anaheim opener for those who have DIRECTV where SPEED is available in HD. SPEED will be rolling out Hi-Def technology to other providers on March 1.


So it is the Fox owned SPEED network keeping the channel as a (currently) Fox owned satellite provider exclusive? It sounds like we need to point the ire at SPEED instead of DISH.


----------



## Paul Secic

peano said:


> SPEED HD is the one channel that I would switch to D* for. Dish, you have 39 days, or I am gone.


Call Dish doesn't read this board regularly if at all.


----------



## davethestalker

Has anyone noticed if this has been discussed on the Speed boards?

Actually, the peeps at Dish do read these boards. CSR's are not allowed to post.

(according to "technical support", not some CSR I interrupted with my call while she was doing her nails)


----------



## philssatellite

I want speed hd also.dish pvr is far superior to dtv right now or i would switch.maybe they will get it in time...we can hope anyway.


----------



## GrumpyBear

As I diehard Roush fan, I would love to have Speed, but just cameback from a friend's house that has a Big Sat system, and has SkyHD. We have our Races in HD, and as long as we have that, Lets get SkyHD or SetanaHD. Watching the Heniken Cup in HD at house was Great. Speed is cool, but we do have all the Nascar races in HD, and Rally Races still aren't HD format.


----------



## ssmith10pn

Looks like I need to order a HR20 and a AT9 Slimline.



> SPEED GOES HD IN'08 :
> 
> SPEED will make its move to High Definition in 2008, beginning Feb. 7 with 100 hours of NASCAR on SPEED HD from Daytona Speedweeks. Starting with the Gatorade Duel 150's on SPEED, the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series race, NASCAR RaceDay and all of the other programming SPEED will deliver surrounding the 50th Anniversary of the Daytona 500, it is one of our most visible times of the year for the network and the perfect time to launch our move to HD. SPEED already offers some of the most action-filled programming on television and the move to HD in 2008 enhances all of it exponentially."


----------



## ssmith10pn

Wow the HR21 has no OTA tuner? That sux.


----------



## eaddict

Anyone know if it will be broadcast in HD? I can't find it anywhere...

Thanks


----------



## Schizm

eaddict said:


> Anyone know if it will be broadcast in HD? I can't find it anywhere...
> 
> Thanks


It should air on your local Fox in HD. I remember seeing commercials during the NFL playoffs mentioning "in HD".


----------



## davethestalker

Are you talking about the Daytona 500 or the Rolex? The actual 500 will air on local Fox in HD. The Duels will be on Speed. The Rolex (this weekend) will not have ANY HD coverage!!!


----------



## RAD

davethestalker said:


> Are you talking about the Daytona 500 or the Rolex? The actual 500 will air on local Fox in HD. The Duels will be on Speed. The Rolex (this weekend) will not have ANY HD coverage!!!


Fox and Speed are both showing the Rolex in HD, at lease the Saturday coverage is in HD.


----------



## ssmith10pn

Speed will have 100 hours of Daytona coverage in HD.


----------



## RAD

ssmith10pn said:


> Speed will have 100 hours of Daytona coverage in HD.


And maybe you'll be able see some of it by then


----------



## Littledude

RAD said:


> Fox and Speed are both showing the Rolex in HD, at lease the Saturday coverage is in HD.


My local Fox (Sacramento) is not showing it in HD right now. Bay Area Fox won't be on until 3. I will check then if they are. However, SpeedHD definitly is showing it in HD. There are lots of standard shots mixed in, but overall its gorgous. Keep pestering E* for the channel. Its keeping this non-racing fan glued to the TV.


----------



## lukin4u

come on dish


we are waiting!!


----------



## acrosby

What do we want? SpeedHD
When do we want it? Now!


----------



## lukin4u

i am almost thinking it is to late for them to change my mind now



i am pissed


----------



## peano

If Directv's receivers weren't pieces of crap, I would have switched already.


----------



## ssmith10pn

peano said:


> If Directv's receivers weren't pieces of crap, I would have switched already.


I have HR21 and dish in my possession and will be installing tomorrow afternoon. 

I'll be paying through the nose but oh well I gots to have it. 
Nascar coverage live in Daytona on Speed starts tomorrow at 3 Eastern.


----------



## racermurray

Today starts the 100 hours of NASCAR HD coverage from Daytona and we still do not have the channel.
Charlie sponsors a DISH team on the circuit but does not want us to see it in HD ?
http://www.dishracing.com/

Shame Shame Shame
Murray


----------



## GrumpyBear

This was covered all ready in SpeedTV's own HD content announcement. Only DirectTV will have Speed TV until March. Granted Speed is Fox owned, and having only DirectTV carry this kind of makes sense. No Cable company carries Speed either, earliest for anybody else is March.


----------



## davethestalker

Greed. Pure, absolute, scum sucking....greed.

D$ must be taking tips from the Mr. Moneybags Sleaze Ball Gates' "Playbook of Dirty Tactics For When Your Product Cannot Beat Your Competition on a Level Field".


----------



## harsh

davethestalker said:


> D$ must be taking tips from the Mr. Moneybags Sleaze Ball Gates' "Playbook of Dirty Tactics For When Your Product Cannot Beat Your Competition on a Level Field".


Bill Gates was in no way the first business person to conceive of an exclusive. It is just that his exclusives generally hinder advancement of the state of the art.


----------



## Kman68

CoriBright said:


> Yes please.... F1 in HD would be WONDERFUL!!!


I am right there with you. The F1 season opener will be telecast in HD on SPEED. There is a possibility that 4 races will be telecast in HD, though it is not guaranteed. SPEED is slave to the F1 World Feed (which is in PAL 574p wide screen, mono.) FOX is under contract to broadcast 4 F1 races in 2008. Will the 4 races be the HD races? Unfortunately, FOX's schedule has not been released to date.

The SPEED boards are full of insider information - all the insiders are labeled as "INSIDER." When SPEED HD first went online they were strong armed by D* to put there name on an HD channel. Initially there was no HD content and SPEED did not have any HD equipment. D* controlled all content. SPEED HD was telecasting PAL world feeds in letter boxed mono mode. AND D*'s HR20/21 does not have a Format button so you could not zoom the picture. It was a real downgrade - more black screen than race coverage. SPEED does not expect to have the bugs worked out of their HD programming (except NASCAR) before 2009, at the earliest.


----------



## phrelin

harsh said:


> Bill Gates was in no way the first business person to conceive of an exclusive. It is just that his exclusives generally hinder advancement of the state of the art.


"State of the art." Hmmm, can't avoid a rant here. Two things.

1. Microsoft has no exclusives *not* handed to them by someone else. Linux-based computers (one of which I have) are effective Windows competition unless you must use software manufactured by some software company who simply doesn't care to support anything but Windows. That includes most software companies in raw numbers. (Unfortunately, I have to use Windows computers because of this.)

Microsoft dominance is because, at the beginning, corporate tech people in non-technology corporations were afraid to think outside the IBM box. And because within those corporations "accounting", for instance, had to have Excel because their CPA buddies were showing it off. It required taking a huge job risk to fight the trend. You had to be there in the mid-1980's wringing your hands over the ignorance.

The Microsoft-IBM lesson from that time is that better hardware and operating systems don't win because most end-users (customers) don't understand or care to understand techological marvels- they just want to see something on their screens they can appear to control.

2. Every cable and satellite company has a shot at exclusives if they are willing to pay enough for it. My guess is that those who got exclusives thought "hmmm generating a bunch of new potentially long-term customers through providing them the content they want vs. producing better technology. Exclusives sounds like the better long term plan.

Build a better box and they will come? It didn't work that way in the computer business of the 1980's, maybe because techies are too small a portion of the market to support a low-margin, rapidly-changing business. My 722 is the most fantastic receiver-dvr computer ever designed for the mass market. So what? It can't get me SciFi HD or others Speed HD today while Direct and cable customers are enjoying them. So today it has no mass market. And, that box without a huge customer base won't pay for one cup of coffee for the Echostar tech staff. (Just consider the well-known-but-yet-to-turn-a-profit-tech-company TiVo which is salvating over a piece of E*'s relatively small share of the mass market revenues stream.)

Careful contingency plans when you are in a hardware iffy-business like rocket-launched satellites also is worth a whole lot more than that box. And long term planning is the only choice, which (a) includes signficant focus on _expanding your customer base through better service as defined by the customer_ and (b) ignores the next two quarters profit numbers for the long term gain is, no matter what the business channel financial gurus might say for six months.

I'm hoping that the recent reorganization that included Erik Carlson being promoted to EVP, Operations, reporting to directly to Charlie and overseeing DISH Network's home and commercial installations, customer service centers, internal customer billing, and equipment retrieval and refurbishment operations, is somehow going to refocus corporate decision-making on the least tech-savvy, and only potentially large, customer base - the folks who take technology for granted and want their CW channel in HD, whether or not through a state of the art box.

Don't get me wrong. I have a bunch of "state of the art" crap - like a new hugely impractical HPPavilion HDX 20" notebook computer with HDMI-out so that ultimately I can stream HD content through the internet to my home theater in my continuing effort to bring "state of the art" into my home. But my wife, kids, and grandkids just want to watch Stargate Atlantis in HD _*now*_. And they represent the customer base, not me the techie who has this long-term emotional tie to Echostar.


----------



## peano

Starchoice now has SPEED HD and Bell ExpressVu has uplinked it. Charlie is going to be last!!!


----------



## videomagician

While watching SPEED TV tonight in glorious 'Standard Definition' - I saw a promo branding speedweeks as "DirecTV Speedweeks in HD" - surprised they didn't tag it "but not on Dish . . ."


----------



## peano

Also, the announcer's desk on SPEED at Daytona has a giant Directv sign plastered on the front.


----------



## wii_dont_care

From the looks of things, literally, I wouldn't bank on E* adding SPEEDHD anytime soon. Although I hope I am wrong.


----------



## davethestalker

I had to call tech support today and the first thing out of the CSR's pie hole was "the leader in HD tv". All i could say was "NOT ANYMORE and WHEN are we getting SpeedHD?". Naturally, I got the "we have no information" answer.

At least the SpeedSD channel sounds better. Before they started using HD cameras and sound, Speed sounded very compressed; like a 128kb mp3.

I'm goin' racin'...


----------



## F1Fan

bobukcat said:


> Okay, this is way OT but how did you get GT5 already, it's not supposed to release until March?? I d/l the demo which frickin rocks but it's only one track, a few cars, etc. etc.


I bought mine on PS Hong Kong Store. It's in Traditional Chinese, but I got the menu translation from SCEA GT5 website to help me navigate the menu.



CoriBright said:


> Yes please.... F1 in HD would be WONDERFUL!!!


That would be why I want SpeedHD.


----------



## SamSony

The reason Directv has High Definition and nobody else is the Rupert Murdoch-Fox Network-Speedtv and Directv connection. *Rupert owns Fox and Speedtv and Directv.* Rupert acquire Directv in 2003 from Hughs Electronics, a General Motors company.


----------



## jack95

Simply put, DirecTV is holding the cards and playing them to win...just business.

What suprises me is the DirecTV Scooby-Doo commercial on FOX during NASCAR coverage only targets cable subs and no mention of Dish subs. Opportunity missed or goodwill???


----------



## James Long

Either DirecTV thinks DISH is irrelevant or they don't want to mention them in ads and cue people to actually contrast and compare the two satellite services.

DirecTV can win against cable - and cable has poured a lot of money into hitting DirecTV so retaliation is needed. If DISH was targeting DirecTV specifically there would be specific retaliation.


----------



## tsmacro

jack95 said:


> Simply put, DirecTV is holding the cards and playing them to win...just business.
> 
> What suprises me is the DirecTV Scooby-Doo commercial on FOX during NASCAR coverage only targets cable subs and no mention of Dish subs. Opportunity missed or goodwill???


I've noticed over the years that both Dish and Directv tend to direct a majority of their adds towards cable rather than each other. Sure every now and then they'll take potshots at each other, but not with the consistancy that they go after cable. While there may be certain "us vs them" mentality w/ satellite companies vs cable companies it's probably just good marketing sense. After all how many cable customers are there in the country? Then compare that to the number of customers that the "other" satellite company has. So where are you going to get the majority of your customers from and where does it make the most sense to direct most of your advertising dollars?


----------



## fredp

For those reading this thread but have D*... how many ads for Dish do you see daily? Maybe its just my viewing habits but I see easily a 10 to not even 1... ratio of D* ads on Dish... Must be a major advertising client..


----------



## Paul Secic

F1Fan said:


> I bought mine on PS Hong Kong Store. It's in Traditional Chinese, but I got the menu translation from SCEA GT5 website to help me navigate the menu.
> 
> That would be why I want SpeedHD.


You should E-mail E and request SpeedHD.


----------



## Indiana627

fredp said:


> For those reading this thread but have D*... how many ads for Dish do you see daily? Maybe its just my viewing habits but I see easily a 10 to not even 1... ratio of D* ads on Dish... Must be a major advertising client..


Ads? What are those? Oh you mean those things I FF through...

Seriously, I have D* and don't see too many E* ads. I definitely see more D* ads. I even see more cable (TW) ads than E* ads.

And the Speed HD coverage looked pretty good on Friday and Saturday.


----------



## Talos4

SamSony said:


> The reason Directv has High Definition and nobody else is the Rupert Murdoch-Fox Network-Speedtv and Directv connection. *Rupert owns Fox and Speedtv and Directv.* Rupert acquire Directv in 2003 from Hughs Electronics, a General Motors company.


News Corp., (Rupert Murdoch) through its Fox Entertainment Group, owns 38% of DIRECTV but is transferring its stake to Liberty Media as part of a deal to buy News Corp. stock back from Liberty.

At least let's make sure we have good info. Yes Rupert "Owns" the Fox Entertainment Group which offers Speed TV as one of it's broadcast offerings,

However a 38% stake in D* hardly constitutes "Owning" the company.

I not an apologist for FEG, just want to make sure the right info is used.


----------



## plarkinjr

SPEED channel seems the perfect candidate for HD.... in fact, I was surprised it wasnt when I first got HD. Speed in HD - lets get it!


----------



## quasi888

melmsrt4 said:


> Any word on the MotoGP, and AMA Superbike HD lineup?


DornaSports doesn't even shoot the MotoGP events with HD cameras, so it's somewhat of a moot point right now. (Although, from what little I've read, it's in the works.) Kinda surprising, considering how big MotoGP is in the rest of the world.

Not sure who is responsible for shooting AMA Superbike, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Motorcycle roadracing just isn't big enough draw in America, at this point in time.


----------



## doritoofdeath

SamSony said:


> The reason Directv has High Definition and nobody else is the Rupert Murdoch-Fox Network-Speedtv and Directv connection. *Rupert owns Fox and Speedtv and Directv.* Rupert acquire Directv in 2003 from Hughs Electronics, a General Motors company.


Murdoch sold DirecTV a long time ago.


----------



## RAD

doritoofdeath said:


> Murdoch sold DirecTV a long time ago.


News Corp. is still the owner, the government still hasn't approved the deal. They are now guessing that it will be completed by the end of this month.


----------



## harsh

While this has been cooking since the summer of 2006, the News Corp deal is supposed to be executed by March according to what Chase Carey said in the earnings conference call. There have been three previous deadlines.

As always, this is for substantial ownership, not the entire company. The changes will involve primarily the composition of the board of directors. A change in attitude from News Corp properties is not expected.


----------



## davethestalker

News Corp being part owner of the other carrier is a conflict with the rumor of News Corp coming to the rescue of Yahoo. Yahoo is and has been tied to ATT/SBC since 2003 (to my personal knowledge). Obviously ATT is tightly infused to Dish.

So, how will all of this come out in the wash?


----------



## James Long

NASCAR looked good on ESPN2 HD today ... I suspect the Daytona 500 will look good on broadcast HD tomorrow.

Why do I _need_ Speed in HD?


----------



## rjsam2000

Why do I need speed in HD?

On Sunday 2/17/08 how about for NASCAR Live 8AM to 9AM, NASCAR RaceDay 10AM to 1PM and NASCAR Victory Lane 7 to 8PM CST!! Five hours all on Speed HD, in HD.


----------



## lukin4u

James Long said:


> NASCAR looked good on ESPN2 HD today ... I suspect the Daytona 500 will look good on broadcast HD tomorrow.
> 
> Why do I _need_ Speed in HD?


thats a silly question!

why have anything in HD then?


----------



## harsh

Talking heads don't need to be in HD. Most of the personalities would prefer not to be in HD.

After all, the untrained viewer can only take a few minutes of that NASCAR accent and lingo for no other reason than trying to compete with other sports for getting their commercials on.


----------



## James Long

When 16 bumped 14 and made him squirly, sending him into the outside wall and then down the track into 40 the announcers missed it ... even though I saw it on my screen. It wasn't until a few minutes later when the 40 driver gave an interview that the story was told (although the announcers never acknowledged that the 16 caused the incident).


----------



## fmcomputer

I guess it's all a matter of preference, I prefer to watch Speed on HD as to watching multiple HD stations on college lectures, teaching monkies to talk, and on and on.....


----------



## Badger

James Long said:


> NASCAR looked good on ESPN2 HD today ... I suspect the Daytona 500 will look good on broadcast HD tomorrow.
> 
> Why do I _need_ Speed in HD?


For the truck races, qualifying,re-showing of races, etc.  I do hope those that do want it get it soon!


----------



## slowmo

Talos4 said:


> News Corp., (Rupert Murdoch) through its Fox Entertainment Group, owns 38% of DIRECTV but is transferring its stake to Liberty Media as part of a deal to buy News Corp. stock back from Liberty.
> 
> At least let's make sure we have good info. Yes Rupert "Owns" the Fox Entertainment Group which offers Speed TV as one of it's broadcast offerings,
> 
> However a 38% stake in D* hardly constitutes "Owning" the company.
> 
> I not an apologist for FEG, just want to make sure the right info is used.


If you're bothering to be picky, why make such a loose comment such as "Yes Rupert 'Owns' the Fox..."?

As of last spring, FEG owned the 38% stake in DTV. FEG was a wholly-owned sub of News Corp. Murdoch beneficially owned 31% of the News Corp shares.

Long story short, per securities regulations, Murdoch was considered the beneficial owner of the FEG shares in DTV.

Now that we have that straight, we still must acknowledge that 38% was not a pure controlling interest.

However, from a practical standpoint, given News Corp's substantial board and executive (example - Carey) representation at DTV and that the only other significant DTV shareholders were relatively passive financial entities with less than a 20% aggregate interest, one must conclude that Murdoch was the big gorilla in a room full of neutered housecats.

By the way, News Corp's interest in DTV had increased to 41% as of the end of 2007 due to DTV's 2007 share repurchases.

The Liberty share exchange is expected to close by the end of this quarter.


----------



## slowmo

Why do people assume that MotoGP, AMA SB, etc. will not be produced in HD?

Heck, Speed is already showing Canadian MX in HD as well as late model dirt track racing.

While Dorna may have other reasons to delay the transition (I haven't bothered to check) for MotoGP, I wouldn't be surprised to see a relatively quick move to HD production by the niche players responsible for AMA SB, AMA MX, etc.

Meanwhile, I saw a brief bit of Speed HD at a pub yesterday for lunch. It appeared that commercials and other non-HD content were letterboxed rather than stretched TNT-style. That was encouraging. 

Can anyone confirm that Speed retains the proper aspect of its content?


----------



## RAD

slowmo said:


> Can anyone confirm that Speed retains the proper aspect of its content?


From what I've seen they don't mess with aspect ratios, 4:3 stays 4:3.


----------



## Paul Secic

peano said:


> Also, the announcer's desk on SPEED at Daytona has a giant Directv sign plastered on the front.


Directv spends more money on advertising, thusly getting more customers.


----------



## RAD

Paul Secic said:


> Directv spends more money on advertising, thusly getting more customers.


And that's the way it's supposed to work


----------



## Paul Secic

harsh said:


> Talking heads don't need to be in HD. Most of the personalities would prefer not to be in HD.
> 
> After all, the untrained viewer can only take a few minutes of that NASCAR accent and lingo for no other reason than trying to compete with other sports for getting their commercials on.


Um, people look fat and puffy in SD on a HDTV. Sure on a regular old SD set objects and people look fine.


----------



## lukin4u

any update yet....?


----------



## davethestalker

2 weeks in a row, the Dish Network car was in victory lane. I'm sure Charlie is pleased with that, if he even watches his investment week after week. And yet, we still do not have SpeedHD, nor any of the other channels the other sat. provider supposedly has a contractual stranglehold on. 

Apparently, the other sat provider is not the only airing SpeedHD, according to Speedtv.com.


----------



## James Long

Two weeks in a row I watched the DISH Network car get to victory road in HD ... on DISH Network.

Speed not required. (Except on the track -- where leading the last lap is the most important thing.)


----------



## davethestalker

Hurray Toyota!!!!


----------



## DustoMan

F1 coverage starts on Thursday. Will Charlie announce SpeedHD at tomorrows Chat? I'm not holding my breath, but I'll be really happy if he does.


----------



## HobbyTalk

I hope so for the sake of those 5 people in the US that watch F1.... duck & run


----------



## James Long

davethestalker said:


> Hurray Toyota!!!!


We have a sports forum for that kind of stuff ... let's talk about the channel here.

(Although I dispute calling Toyota a foreign car ... foreign brand, yes, but there are too many Toyota plants in America building parts and assembling finished cars and trucks not to recognize them as a new American car maker.)


----------



## dunkonu23

HobbyTalk said:


> I hope so for the sake of those 5 people in the US that watch F1.... duck & run


Make that 6...

I've got two more months left on my commitment, then I will choose. It's odd, the cable company doesn't carry Speed at all. The choice isn't going to be easy, though... I do love my 722 and the hard drive--all that is lost if I switch.

Anyrate, while I doubt that even after Speed arrives in HD that the signal from the F1 feeds will be in HD, I don't doubt that the picture quality will be better.

Scott


----------



## lukin4u

HD in europe 
is comparible to us men wearing a speedo on the beach in the states

not going to happen anytime soon

they didnt even broadcast F1 indy in hd last year


----------



## benn5325

HobbyTalk said:


> I hope so for the sake of those 5 people in the US that watch F1.... duck & run


7


----------



## jackinbox

lukin4u said:


> HD in europe
> is comparible to us men wearing a speedo on the beach in the states
> 
> not going to happen anytime soon
> 
> they didnt even broadcast F1 indy in hd last year


The USGP was broadcast 16:9 standard def. From what I had read last year, F-1 would be in HD beginning this season. I'll have to do some more research and see if it's really happening.


----------



## jackinbox

OK, I just did some checking and F1 is still not being made available in HD (at least yet) anywhere in the world. It's insane to think that F1 dwarfs NASCAR in terms of worldwide viewers yet they can't seem to come up with a high-def feed, but yet those so called "hillbillies" that run NASCAR have been doing it for years.


----------



## James Long

The "hillbillies" are backed by America's largest sports networks ... ESPN and Fox.


----------



## DustoMan

jackinbox said:


> The USGP was broadcast 16:9 standard def. From what I had read last year, F-1 would be in HD beginning this season. I'll have to do some more research and see if it's really happening.


Really, I think we need to see a change in the people that run F1 before we will see it in HD. You think they want to spend all that money updating equipment and cameras? Burnie would have to give up one of the money bags he uses as a pillow if they did that.

I just want to see it in widescreen.


----------



## Kman68

jackinbox said:


> The USGP was broadcast 16:9 standard def. From what I had read last year, F-1 would be in HD beginning this season. I'll have to do some more research and see if it's really happening.


According to Mr. Hobbs (SPEED F1 Announcer), last years FOX races were in PAL (574p), AKA: World Feed. Most of this years races will feature the World Feed on SPEED HD, while not HD it is a vast improvement over 480i.

If you look at the schedule on SPEEDtv.com Australia will be telecast in HD.

http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/date/2008-3-15


----------



## Turbohawk

peano said:


> SPEED HD is the one channel that I would switch to D* for. Dish, you have 39 days, or I am gone.


Ditto for me. I'm tired of missed programs too! Dish, your days are numbered. Get serious or you'll lose longtime customers. GET ON THE BALL CHARLIE!


----------



## epsilon

HobbyTalk said:


> I hope so for the sake of those 5 people in the US that watch F1.... duck & run


I think you need to add several zeros after that figure... It would be great if it is HD indeed, but I'll take widescreen SD for now. I believe the recent MotoGP race was 16:9 SD.


----------



## rey_1178

speed hd not in the list


----------



## CoriBright

HobbyTalk said:


> I hope so for the sake of those 5 people in the US that watch F1.... duck & run


More than 5 usually in my living room (all the neighbors come round, no matter what the time of the race).

It's more popular than perhaps Hobby imagines... and guess what, F1 race in ALL weathers. One drop of rain on the track and Nascar slithers to a halt. F1 racers just go for it!


----------



## Suomi

CoriBright said:


> More than 5 usually in my living room (all the neighbors come round, no matter what the time of the race).
> 
> It's more popular than perhaps Hobby imagines... and guess what, F1 race in ALL weathers. One drop of rain on the track and Nascar slithers to a halt. F1 racers just go for it!


I wish I had neighbors like that. I usually watch the races alone in my PJs.


----------



## Schizm

Suomi said:


> I wish I had neighbors like that. I usually watch the races alone in my PJs.


+1

I'm really excited the season is starting but am upset I have to deal with the crappy audio E* gives us for SpeedTV.


----------



## rey_1178

charlie mentioned towards the end that they are negotiating for speed hd


----------



## James Long

But, alas, it was not one of the featured logos.


----------



## jackinbox

James Long said:


> The "hillbillies" are backed by America's largest sports networks ... ESPN and Fox.


I didn't really "hillbillies" literally. I was referring to the perception that Formula One is a bunch of high-brow elitists while NASCAR is often perceived as a bunch of beer-chugging "hillbillies". Yet NASCAR was able to get it done.

As far as the networks, I'm talking about F-1's world feed. Every F-1 race has more viewers worldwide than the Super Bowl does in America. There's no excuse for the world's 2nd most popular sport not to be made available in HD.


----------



## bonipie

Another one really disappointed that SpeedHD is not on the list. We watch Supercross and Motocross as well as other racing. We get a tease every now and then when CBS televises in HD, and these motorcycle races are in HD on Speed. Bummer.


----------



## jackinbox

Kman68 said:


> According to Mr. Hobbs (SPEED F1 Announcer), last years FOX races were in PAL (574p), AKA: World Feed. Most of this years races will feature the World Feed on SPEED HD, while not HD it is a vast improvement over 480i.
> 
> If you look at the schedule on SPEEDtv.com Australia will be telecast in HD.
> 
> http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/date/2008-3-15


Really? So there is no NTSC world feed? Interesting. I thought I had heard that the feeds were available in both PAL and NTSC (for North America, South America, Japan, Korea). It seems like the PAL conversion to NTSC would be easier handled by FOM rather than each individual country. But who am I to second guess Mr. Hobbs?


----------



## James Long

What is HD in the rest of the world? I know here HD is 1080i or 720p (or equivalents). Is the rest of the world on the same page as each other or are we talking multiple definitions of high definition? That makes a global challenge harder.


----------



## phrelin

What is conspicuous about the list is that no News Corporation (Fox) channels are listed including the general audience favorite Fx and Speed discussed here. Sounds like contract problems. News Corporation is, of course, totally into squeezing the last dollar out of the masses. It's a mantra and consistent with its political philosophy. Not to mention that until last month it was a major owner of DirectTV.


----------



## rey_1178

but guys remember charlie did mention last night that they were trying to negotiate this channel. right? so at least i think there is something positive in that. more than what we had before 9pm yesterday.


----------



## JohnL

jackinbox said:


> I didn't really "hillbillies" literally. I was referring to the perception that Formula One is a bunch of high-brow elitists while NASCAR is often perceived as a bunch of beer-chugging "hillbillies". Yet NASCAR was able to get it done.
> 
> As far as the networks, I'm talking about F-1's world feed. Every F-1 race has more viewers worldwide than the Super Bowl does in America. There's no excuse for the world's 2nd most popular sport not to be made available in HD.


Jackinbox,

Actually their are a couple of reasons F1 is not in HD. First off the F1 races are held in venues in different countries all over the world. This requires a huge amount of infrastructure as well as getting the local feed and getting it to multiple providers worldwide. It also assumes that the vastly majority of F1 fans have access to an HD provider as well as a significant percentage of those viewers have an HD display.

Lastly there are different native resolutions of HD worldwide. Take an HD source that is not the same native resolution and rescaling it degrades the image quality as well.

NASCAR HD is broadcast to a market that uses the same native resolution and modulation schemes. NASCAR doesn't have to create a new distribution chain at every track and rely on a different provider to create that feed and then distribute it at EVERY Venue.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see F1 in HD, but this is not going to happen till next season or beyond.

John


----------



## HobbyTalk

There are a couple of other issues here that also is a factor. For E*, worldwide viewership means nothing as that isn't their market. What really mattes is eyeballs in the U.S. and NASCAR has far more viewers in the U.S. then F1.

Bernie controls the broadcasting of F1 worldwide. They produce it and broadcasters pay him to distribute it. Since F1 is popular in most parts of the world, they will pay top dollar for whatever Bernie feeds them. HD also is relatively rare in most other parts of the world (End of 2006 US and Japan had over 90% of HDTV sets worldwide). And we all know how Bernie is on his precious F1 so I suspect they pay top dollar, yen, etc.

For NASCAR, the broadcasters (FOX, ESPN, etc.) are the ones that produce the show and pay NASCAR for that right. Since it is the broadcaster that is the one that is actually putting the show on the air, it is in their best interest to have it in HD as they can then get more $$$$ from the advertisers.


----------



## kstevens

racermurray said:


> From speedtv.com
> 
> SPEED will make its move to High Definition in 2008, beginning Feb. 7 with 100 hours of NASCAR on SPEED HD from Daytona Speedweeks. Starting with the Gatorade Duel 150's on SPEED, the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series race, NASCAR RaceDay and all of the other programming SPEED will deliver surrounding the 50th Anniversary of the Daytona 500, it is one of our most visible times of the year for the network and the perfect time to launch our move to HD. SPEED already offers some of the most action-filled programming on television and the move to HD in 2008 enhances all of it exponentially."
> 
> C'mon DISH...lets get the ball rollin on adding SPEED HD
> 
> Murray


Charlie let you down, not us......


----------



## slowmo

HobbyTalk said:


> There are a couple of other issues here that also is a factor. For E*, worldwide viewership means nothing as that isn't their market. What really mattes is eyeballs in the U.S. and NASCAR has far more viewers in the U.S. then F1.
> 
> Bernie controls the broadcasting of F1 worldwide. They produce it and broadcasters pay him to distribute it. Since F1 is popular in most parts of the world, they will pay top dollar for whatever Bernie feeds them. HD also is relatively rare in most other parts of the world (End of 2006 US and Japan had over 90% of HDTV sets worldwide). And we all know how Bernie is on his precious F1 so I suspect they pay top dollar, yen, etc.
> 
> For NASCAR, the broadcasters (FOX, ESPN, etc.) are the ones that produce the show and pay NASCAR for that right. Since it is the broadcaster that is the one that is actually putting the show on the air, it is in their best interest to have it in HD as they can then get more $$$$ from the advertisers.


Somewhat useless to compare NASCAR to F1 or to speculate as to Bernie's motives.

Regardless:

Speed is already broadcasting a variety of programs / races in HD. Plus, the PQ of any foreign-sourced programming (MotoGP, F1) that is shown in 16:9 SD on Speed HD is dramatically better than it's crappy 4:3 SD counterpart on regular Speed.

This thread continues to get off track as some have essentially "excused" Dish by citing that we get plenty of NASCAR on FOXHD (ignorantly assuming that Speed fans prioritize NASCAR to begin with), that certain programming is not yet available in HD, or that the number of Speed viewers is relatively few. I have a difficult time understanding why the last two points are relevant given that such points are common to a large number of HD channels already carried by Dish.

I have received my new subscriber rebate in full and I've recently completed my commitment. Racing season has begun. Your move Dish...


----------



## James Long

slowmo said:


> This thread continues to get off track as some have essentially "excused" Dish by citing that we get plenty of NASCAR on FOXHD (ignorantly assuming that Speed fans prioritize NASCAR to begin with), that certain programming is not yet available in HD, or that the number of Speed viewers is relatively few. I have a difficult time understanding why the last two points are relevant given that such points are common to a large number of HD channels already carried by Dish.


There is obviously some other sticking point ... perhaps price?

You may be ignorantly ignoring the appeal of speed outside of NASCAR. Forget the world - the world can't legally subscribe to Speed via DISH Network - focus on DISH Network customers and potential customers.

How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR?
How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR unique to SPEED?
How many millions of potential subscribers watch non-NASCAR unique to speed?

I believe you will find the first number to be the highest and MOST of the viewership of NASCAR to be the races ... on ESPN and on FOX (this week on ABC). NASCAR in the US is popular enough that broadcast networks cover it - often.

Only the top non-NASCAR races get that kind of coverage. People just don't watch on the same level.


----------



## Kman68

James Long said:


> What is HD in the rest of the world? I know here HD is 1080i or 720p (or equivalents). Is the rest of the world on the same page as each other or are we talking multiple definitions of high definition? That makes a global challenge harder.


ATSC is the HD standard regardless of location. The same sets they sell stateside will work overseas. It is a tough sell in European markets because the PAL system is not far from 720p HD video quality.

As for the popularity of F1, you would not know it from living in the USA, but F1, Tour de France and World Cup Soccer have the highest sports viewers/attendance in the world. The order is the only thing that changes from year to year.

Another unknown thing is that every year the world fitness community gets together to determine who the fittest athletes in the world are. F1 drivers usually win with bicycle racers coming in a close second. Most F1 drivers ride bicycles. Very few professional cyclists will ever drive a Formula One car.


----------



## James Long

Kman68 said:


> As for the popularity of F1, you would not know it from living in the USA, but F1, Tour de France and World Cup Soccer have the highest sports viewers/attendance in the world. The order is the only thing that changes from year to year.


Irrelevant. DISH Network is selling satellite services to people in the US ... that is what matters here ... as stated in my previous message, forget the world.


----------



## Redlinetire

James Long said:


> I believe you will find the first number to be the highest and MOST of the viewership of NASCAR to be the races ... on ESPN and on FOX (this week on ABC). NASCAR in the US is popular enough that broadcast networks cover it - often.


It depends on the time of the year, FOX/ESPN own the first half of the season, NBC (using TNT as well) has broadcast rights on the second half I believe.

The point is a lot of people DO want SpeedHD to watch NASCAR pre-pre-pre-race shows, post-post race shows, Trucks, etc, etc. That's why Fox purchased the old SpeedVision network in the first place. And they're plan is definitely to make it 'the' NASCAR channel, if it isn't already. The numbers are high enough to justify it's carriage by Dish just on NASCAR numbers alone. FOX wouldn't have invested the money to make it HD for just a few thousand viewers. They must have marketing numbers to back up the business decision.


----------



## ZBoomer

Kman68 said:


> It is a tough sell in European markets because the PAL system is not far from 720p HD video quality.


PAL is 50Hz interlaced; with up to 768x576 resolution it's a bit higher resolution than NTSC, but I've seen PAL before, and it's nowhere near 1280x720 (@ 60Hz progressive) HD to my eyes, not even close.

Flickers like hell for me, 50Hz interlaced sucks.


----------



## slowmo

James Long said:


> There is obviously some other sticking point ... perhaps price?
> 
> You may be ignorantly ignoring the appeal of speed outside of NASCAR. Forget the world - the world can't legally subscribe to Speed via DISH Network - focus on DISH Network customers and potential customers.
> 
> How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR?
> How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR unique to SPEED?
> How many millions of potential subscribers watch non-NASCAR unique to speed?
> 
> I believe you will find the first number to be the highest and MOST of the viewership of NASCAR to be the races ... on ESPN and on FOX (this week on ABC). NASCAR in the US is popular enough that broadcast networks cover it - often.
> 
> Only the top non-NASCAR races get that kind of coverage. People just don't watch on the same level.


I'm not ignorantly ignoring the appeal of NASCAR vs. non-NASCAR. In fact, I'm not comparing to NASCAR when I stated that Speed should already have sufficient viewer numbers in comparison to some OTHER niche HD channels that Dish carries. If anything, the recent addition of NASCAR-related programming to Speed only increases its mass-market appeal notwithstanding the views of many motorsports fans who miss the old Speedvision.

Good lord, we have VS/GF in HD. Is that really any different? Yes, golf has a huge following but that following prioritizes broadcast network coverage not the obscure crap typically found on VS/GF.

I've long given up on the old mantra of citing F1's global following. I'm just citing that Speed is no more niche than much of the junk filling up my HD guide right now on my 622.


----------



## TR7Spyder

I can't stand NASCAR, but I am hoping that its (misguided) popularity should elevate Speed to HD status. But I guess not... I find this even more strange than the fact that so many actually watch NASCAR.


----------



## Chandu

Kman68 said:


> ATSC is the HD standard regardless of location.


Nonsense (due to bad choice of words used).

ATSC is not a display standard, it is a terrestrial transmission standard, hence need of ATSC tuners etc. For most of the world which follows DVB family of standards, DVB-T is the standard for terrestrial transmission.

But most of that is completely irrelevant to what a given digital television set can or cannot display - which was originally James' question.



> The same sets they sell stateside will work overseas. It is a tough sell in European markets because the PAL system is not far from 720p HD video quality.


This is pretty much true for HD. That is, all worldwide HD sets natively support 720p, 1080i and now 1080p as well. There may be some differences in the refresh frequency supported for each resolution, I haven't checked on the details.

This statement quoted not necessarily true for SD. SD resolutions output by American tuners or American DVD players such as 480i and 480p cannot be natively displayed on sets sold in rest of the world. This is because they mostly support more superior quality of SD in 576i or 576p (also known as PAL). Now, there maybe video processors on the market which could possibly upconvert from 480i to 576i or 480p to 576p. But your statement was referring to "using a digital TV sold stateside overseas", i.e. the reverse use case. Considering tuners overseas would be spitting out 576i SD picture, I'm not 100% sure if American digital sets could intelligently handle it and downconvert to their native capability of 480i.

Talking about F1 coverage in HD, all of you should check out the following thread from last season. In it there is a link to interview given by Bernie, in which he stated why worldwide HD telecast for F1 was not the topmost priority for him.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90078


----------



## Kman68

slowmo said:


> I'm not ignorantly ignoring the appeal of NASCAR vs. non-NASCAR. In fact, I'm not comparing to NASCAR when I stated that Speed should already have sufficient viewer numbers in comparison to some OTHER niche HD channels that Dish carries. If anything, the recent addition of NASCAR-related programming to Speed only increases its mass-market appeal notwithstanding the views of many motorsports fans who miss the old Speedvision.
> 
> Good lord, we have VS/GF in HD. Is that really any different? Yes, golf has a huge following but that following prioritizes broadcast network coverage not the obscure crap typically found on VS/GF.
> 
> I've long given up on the old mantra of citing F1's global following. I'm just citing that Speed is no more niche than much of the junk filling up my HD guide right now on my 622.


There was post on the SPEED message boards last year addressing this very issue. On the weekend of an F1 GP, 235,000 viewers tuned in SPEED to watch the event. On that same weekend, some gentlemen were standing in a field with an eye on their balls while holding their sticks. 7 Million viewers tuned in to watch men watch their balls.

Mark Twain said it best, "Golf is good walk spoiled."


----------



## qsoundrich

F1 starts in a few hours and still NO SpeedHD. Why can't they get this deal done?


----------



## DustoMan

Kman68 said:


> ATSC is the HD standard regardless of location. The same sets they sell stateside will work overseas. It is a tough sell in European markets because the PAL system is not far from 720p HD video quality.


If you are only counting horizontal lines then I guess you can say that PAL is "close" to 720p. However, that would be discounting the number a vertical lines in the picture. Here's a graphic to help illustrate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television#TV_resolution


----------



## WebTraveler

It's this kind of niche programming that clogs up the offerings of some of the mainstream channels. Bottom line is that this channel is simply not exciting, except to a small, but vocal group.


----------



## JohnL

qsoundrich said:


> F1 starts in a few hours and still NO SpeedHD. Why can't they get this deal done?


qsoundrich,

Yes, no Speed HD but F1 is not available to anyone in HD even those with SpeedHD.

John


----------



## ssmith10pn

TR7Spyder said:


> I can't stand NASCAR, but I am hoping that its (misguided) popularity should elevate Speed to HD status. But I guess not... I find this even more strange than the fact that so many actually watch NASCAR.


Look where your from. That explains it all. 

If you grew up with Talladega or Daytona in your back yard you would understand.


----------



## JohnL

WebTraveler said:


> It's this kind of niche programming that clogs up the offerings of some of the mainstream channels. Bottom line is that this channel is simply not exciting, except to a small, but vocal group.


WebTraveler,

Okay, but what you may call Mainstream channels were at one time Niche channels, besides if you look at the actual viewer numbers for even "MainStream" cable channels, their actual viewer numbers are vastly less than even the lowest rated OTA Network Broadcasts (which are totally supported by Ad Revenue).

Even Mainstream Cable Channels could NEVER EVER support their networks with Ad revenue by itself. With all that said Cable's penetration rate into the vast majority of US homes is because of its ability to deliver the varied niche programing that most Americans want. Just because SpeedHD is not valued Niche programing in your home does not mean its NOT niche programing that many others want. I'm sure you have interest in other niche channels that many others don't.

In the end, US Cable channels offer a varied slate of niche programing that caters to most everybody interests, maybe not for every channel carried. Collectively, we all enjoy some niche programing over other offerings, but if cable didn't offer most subscribers some niche programing they enjoy then Cable wouldn't be in the majority of US homes.

John


----------



## WebTraveler

JohnL said:


> WebTraveler,
> 
> Okay, but what you may call Mainstream channels were at one time Niche channels, besides if you look at the actual viewer numbers for even "MainStream" cable channels, their actual viewer numbers are vastly less than even the lowest rated OTA Network Broadcasts (which are totally supported by Ad Revenue).
> 
> Even Mainstream Cable Channels could NEVER EVER support their networks with Ad revenue by itself. With all that said Cable's penetration rate into the vast majority of US homes is because of its ability to deliver the varied niche programing that most Americans want. Just because SpeedHD is not valued Niche programing in your home does not mean its NOT niche programing that many others want. I'm sure you have interest in other niche channels that many others don't.
> 
> In the end, US Cable channels offer a varied slate of niche programing that caters to most everybody interests, maybe not for every channel carried. Collectively, we all enjoy some niche programing over other offerings, but if cable didn't offer most subscribers some niche programing they enjoy then Cable wouldn't be in the majority of US homes.
> 
> John


John, I am not really sure what your point is, except perhaps you don't like the fact that I call SpeedHD a niche channel with a small, but vocal, audience.

The fact remains that it is a niche channel, and by mainstream I mean USA HD, Nick HD for the kids, and so forth.


----------



## longrider

I just stumbled on this thread as I dont normally check the Dish forums but to fill in the other motorcycle enthusiasts: Supercross is all HD since Live Nation is paying for it. European coverage is SD, I did find it interesting that from Qatar the 250s were pillarboxed 4:3 while the 800s were 16:9 SD. US coverage Daytona was obviously HD, Laguna Seca should be HD, but the rest of the coverage will be SD. Next year there is hopefully a lot more HD as long as Speed steps up. This info about US coverage is directly from the source, Chet Burks of Chet Burks Productions who produces all of Speeds US coverage.


----------



## JohnL

WebTraveler said:


> John, I am not really sure what your point is, except perhaps you don't like the fact that I call SpeedHD a niche channel with a small, but vocal, audience.
> 
> The fact remains that it is a niche channel, and by mainstream I mean USA HD, Nick HD for the kids, and so forth.


Webtraveler,

My point is all Cable channels are NICHE, as their real viewer eyeball count is vastly less than Network Television. Since this is the case Subscriber fees are required to support their operation instead of 100 percent Ad Revenue.

Any channel that can't support itself entirely from Ad Revenue means these channels are NOT attracting a wide enough "Mainstream audience" or enough eyeballs to pay to for their operation from Ad revenue alone. This means all CABLE channels are NICHE channels as they all cater to a specific audiences.

John


----------



## WebTraveler

JohnL said:


> Webtraveler,
> 
> My point is all Cable channels are NICHE, as their real viewer eyeball count is vastly less than Network Television. Since this is the case Subscriber fees are required to support their operation instead of 100 percent Ad Revenue.
> 
> Any channel that can't support itself entirely from Ad Revenue means these channels are NOT attracting a wide enough "Mainstream audience" or enough eyeballs to pay to for their operation from Ad revenue alone. This means all CABLE channels are NICHE channels as they all cater to a specific audiences.
> 
> John


I guess I see your point to some extent, but cable channels were built long ago on a completely different model. To some extent, regular TV is now part of that same **new** model. In order to rebroadcast **free** channels, cable and satellite must execute agreements and pay for that right.

However, look at the weekly ratings and # of viewers:

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||weekly,00.html

Compare that with the cable TV viewership:

http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||cable,00.html

Note that while the TOP shows generate HUGE numbers, farther down that list is not that much off of cable. According to this USA, ESPN, NICK, and CNN are just as much mainstream as ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX. No way you can say that both USA and Speed are niche. Speed definately is.

Of course, you can always put a spin on whatever. It's a completely different model.


----------



## qsoundrich

Speed may be a niche product, but it's appeal is to generally a fairly affluent male demographic that advertisers really like. 

My understanding is that many of the F1 races are in 16x9 aspect ratio. That's almost as important to me as the higher lines of resolution. 

And anyone who watched the race today could not possibly call it boring.


----------



## WebTraveler

qsoundrich said:


> And anyone who watched the race today could not possibly call it boring.


That's because I wasn't watching! But to each their own, that's why we live where we live!


----------



## HobbyTalk

WebTraveler said:


> However, look at the weekly ratings and # of viewers:
> 
> http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||weekly,00.html
> 
> Compare that with the cable TV viewership:
> 
> http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,272|||cable,00.html


So what you are showing is that the #1 rated cable show would have placed about 70th on the OTA broadcast show ratings. I would call that niche.


----------



## harsh

JohnL said:


> Yes, no Speed HD but F1 is not available to anyone in HD even those with SpeedHD.


For some reason, the program guide on the SpeedTV.com website shows that all of this week's F1 events are in HD.


----------



## WebTraveler

HobbyTalk said:


> So what you are showing is that the #1 rated cable show would have placed about 70th on the OTA broadcast show ratings. I would call that niche.


And Speed's ratings are what? Not even on anyone's chart. You can define anything by setting the bar wherever.

Let's see, Speed is in 78 million homes and recently was wowed by 1 million of those viewers watching - its most ever: http://www.speedtv.com/article/speed-encouraged-by-early-ratings-growth/

According to the numbers Spongbob on Nick scores 5 million viewers on a regular basis. Speed did 1 million once. Even WWE wrestling scores 5 million viewers on USA Network for goodness sake.

So more people watch wrestling then Speed. Who is really the niche? A Rerun of Law & Order on USA easily creams Speed.

So every cable operator is niche? Not one single one is mainstream? I find that ridiculous. The reality is that a vocal few do watch Speed. The question is do we hog the badwidth for that, where a paltry number of viewers are watching or do we save the bandwith for Spongebob and reruns of Law & Order?!


----------



## Suomi

JohnL said:


> qsoundrich,
> 
> Yes, no Speed HD but F1 is not available to anyone in HD even those with SpeedHD.
> 
> John


F1 won't be in true HD, but it will be the widescreen PAL world feed upconverted to HD. They used this feed last year for the races broadcast on Fox OTA, and they looked much better than the standard SD feed from Speed.


----------



## slowmo

WebTraveler said:


> And Speed's ratings are what? Not even on anyone's chart. You can define anything by setting the bar wherever.
> 
> Let's see, Speed is in 78 million homes and recently was wowed by 1 million of those viewers watching - its most ever: http://www.speedtv.com/article/speed-encouraged-by-early-ratings-growth/
> 
> According to the numbers Spongbob on Nick scores 5 million viewers on a regular basis. Speed did 1 million once. Even WWE wrestling scores 5 million viewers on USA Network for goodness sake.
> 
> So more people watch wrestling then Speed. Who is really the niche? A Rerun of Law & Order on USA easily creams Speed.
> 
> So every cable operator is niche? Not one single one is mainstream? I find that ridiculous. The reality is that a vocal few do watch Speed. The question is do we hog the badwidth for that, where a paltry number of viewers are watching or do we save the bandwith for Spongebob and reruns of Law & Order?!


All hail WebTraveler - impassioned defender and advocate for Spongebob! 

This thread has become useless. What's the number for D*?


----------



## James Long

888-777-2454


----------



## qsoundrich

Well in the "Dish announces HD plans for 2008" thread there was no mention of Speed. Looks like we won't be getting it anytime soon.


----------



## Cyclone

Considering that none of the other FOX Cable properties (FuelHD, Fox Bid'ness HD, or F/X-HD) are also not mentioned, I suspect that its not SpeedTV in particular that Dish has not added. So arguing Nascar and F1 won't do much good, its just FOX and Dish coming to a $$$ agreement, the rest of us can just wait it out.


----------



## rey_1178

James Long said:


> 888-777-2454


!Devil_lol


----------



## jackinbox

James Long said:


> You may be ignorantly ignoring the appeal of speed outside of NASCAR. Forget the world - the world can't legally subscribe to Speed via DISH Network - focus on DISH Network customers and potential customers.
> 
> How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR?
> How many millions of potential subscribers watch NASCAR unique to SPEED?
> How many millions of potential subscribers watch non-NASCAR unique to speed?
> 
> I believe you will find the first number to be the highest and MOST of the viewership of NASCAR to be the races ... on ESPN and on FOX (this week on ABC). NASCAR in the US is popular enough that broadcast networks cover it - often.
> 
> Only the top non-NASCAR races get that kind of coverage. People just don't watch on the same level.


OK, perhaps I wasn't clear who my gripe was against. I was complaining about the fact that Formula One Management (who provides the world feed) can't get their act together and provide an HD feed. This is a whole different argument than E* not carrying SpeedHD. Speed-HD can't show F1 races in HD even if they wanted to, because there is no HD feed.

My point about NASCAR was that Fox, ABC or ESPN can get an HD feed together for 5 million viewers but yet FOM can't provide one for 200 million viewers?


----------



## HobbyTalk

Heck, they can't even agree to race in Speedway, how can they be expected to provide an HD feed


----------



## jackinbox

JohnL said:


> Actually their are a couple of reasons F1 is not in HD. First off the F1 races are held in venues in different countries all over the world. This requires a huge amount of infrastructure as well as getting the local feed and getting it to multiple providers worldwide.


That used to be the case, but now Formula One Management is producing all the races themselves (with the exeption of Japan and Brazil). There are other feeds being retransmitted. In Italy, they offer a pay-per-view service which provides the entire race with cameras on the two Ferrari cars!



> Lastly there are different native resolutions of HD worldwide. Take an HD source that is not the same native resolution and rescaling it degrades the image quality as well.


I don't see how that's any different than what he have now with NTSC, PAL and SECAM. Here in the U.S., we already have 2 resolutions (1080i and 720p). I'm not aware of any other diferences worldwide, but I could be wrong.



> NASCAR HD is broadcast to a market that uses the same native resolution and modulation schemes.


Some of the races are 720p, some are 1080i, depending on which network they are runing on.



> NASCAR doesn't have to create a new distribution chain at every track and rely on a different provider to create that feed and then distribute it at EVERY Venue.


Again, I don't think this is an issue anymore now that FOM is flying in their own camera operators and equipment, save for those 2 races.



> Don't get me wrong I would love to see F1 in HD, but this is not going to happen till next season or beyond.


You're probably right. I did find this article from last season where Bernie confirmed they are getting cameras switched over for HD.

LINK


----------



## James Long

jackinbox said:


> My point about NASCAR was that Fox, ABC or ESPN can get an HD feed together for 5 million viewers but yet FOM can't provide one for 200 million viewers?


Which is irrelevant ...

This is a DISH Network forum. We're discussing the possibility of Speed HD being on DISH Network to serve 9 million or so of DISH Network's customers who currently get Speed in SD. The only relationship that Formula One has to the argument is that by failing to provide HD races they fail to give Speed HD more actual HD content to air.

It sounds (from other posters) that there are "enhanced definition" feeds available which would be better upconverted to HD than downconverted to SD ... but in the end it comes down to how many of DISH's potential audience cares at all about the content.

Toss around the 200 million worldwide all you want ... it is irrelevant unless those people are in the US and able to subscribe to DISH Network ...

How many people IN THE US watch a regular F1 race via Speed?
(Not the one or two popular races per year ... but the normal coverage.)

There is probably a bigger audience for NASCAR fans wanting to watch their drivers warm up and qualify than F1 ... which makes F1 nearly irrelevant to the whole question.


----------



## Kman68

James Long said:


> Which is irrelevant ...
> 
> Toss around the 200 million worldwide all you want ... it is irrelevant unless those people are in the US and able to subscribe to DISH Network ...


Last year a poster on SPEED's message boards found a USA Today publication of Nielson sports only rating that stated 234,000 US viewers tuned in to watch the USGP. There was golf game that same weekend that attracted over 7 million viewers.

Of the 234,000, how many were Dish Net subscribers?

At least BE is committed to delivering F1 in wide screen HD format (not 5.1) as soon as possible. With the Beeb picking up F1 in 2009, that time might be just around the corner.


----------



## slowmo

James Long said:


> Toss around the 200 million worldwide all you want ... it is irrelevant unless those people are in the US and able to subscribe to DISH Network ...
> 
> .


Granted, this thread continues to get sidetracked. However, how many of Dish's current subscribers watch the stupid HD news channel? VS/GF?

Notwithstanding the history of Voom (which is irrelevant in your context to this discussion), how many Dish subscribers watch each of the Voom channels?

My point? We have a substantial number of current HD channels provided by Dish that are either substandard in terms of HD content (ex. TBS) or substandard in popularity among current subscribers (ex. HD News). Why must Speed be held to a higher standard (apparently a SpongeBob standard?)?


----------



## James Long

Existing channels are not likely to go away. Perhaps if Speed would have accelerated into HD a year or two ago they would have grabbed an early slot. Now the have to compete like any other channel.

If you believe that Voom or any other channel was a mistake then why don't you support tougher guidelines now? Or is it just tougher guidelines for every channel _EXCEPT_ the one you want?


----------



## WebTraveler

slowmo said:


> Granted, this thread continues to get sidetracked. However, how many of Dish's current subscribers watch the stupid HD news channel? VS/GF?
> 
> Notwithstanding the history of Voom (which is irrelevant in your context to this discussion), how many Dish subscribers watch each of the Voom channels?
> 
> My point? We have a substantial number of current HD channels provided by Dish that are either substandard in terms of HD content (ex. TBS) or substandard in popularity among current subscribers (ex. HD News). Why must Speed be held to a higher standard (apparently a SpongeBob standard?)?


First, Speed has what, 72 million subscribers? Their best show EVER had 1 million watching. How many of that 1 million even subscribes to HD? Remember, on a daily basis Speed's audience is negligible and doesn't even register.

I guarantee you that on a consistent basis TBS and a whole lot more generates more interest.

Speed may have some (but relatively few) passionate viewers. Unless Speed offers the HD channel free its simply a dumb business decision to make to place that priority ahead of channels that people watch.


----------



## lukin4u

WebTraveler said:


> First, Speed has what, 72 million subscribers? Their best show EVER had 1 million watching. How many of that 1 million even subscribes to HD? Remember, on a daily basis Speed's audience is negligible and doesn't even register.
> 
> I guarantee you that on a consistent basis TBS and a whole lot more generates more interest.
> 
> Speed may have some (but relatively few) passionate viewers. Unless Speed offers the HD channel free its simply a dumb business decision to make to place that priority ahead of channels that people watch.


you obvioulsly have no idea how big motorsports are here in the US then 
and for that matter F1 is the second most watched sport in the world

just look @ how many pages this thread is


----------



## James Long

Once again, the world is irrelevant. It's the US audience that matters.


----------



## Chandu

jackinbox said:


> Here in the U.S., we already have 2 resolutions (1080i and 720p). I'm not aware of any other diferences worldwide, but I could be wrong.


You aren't wrong, that's absolutely correct. "There are different native HD resolutions worldwide" is some bogus myth being spread by someone without doing any research.

For the record, I find James Long's argument that there is no demand for F1 on Speed as something standing on weak legs. Speed's F1 broadcasting team itself has on countless occasions described the rabid fanbase they have, the high volume of feedback they get, as well as their reasonably good ratings (considering most of their races occur when it's odd hours of the night in USA). Lot of people like myself watch races taking place on European soil or elsewhere (China, Japan, Bahrain, Australia) off of DVRs. I'm not even sure DVR recordings get reflected in the ratings. In spite of this, if there people watching live at odd hours which gets reflected in the ratings, that is respectable.


----------



## James Long

Personally I don't care if F1 fans have rabies as long as they don't bite me.
Got a number? Other than "countless" "high" "reasonably good" "not even sure"?

BTW: Don't characterize what I write as "no demand" ... just weak demand.


----------



## dunkonu23

James Long said:


> Personally I don't care if F1 fans have rabies as long as they don't bite me.
> Got a number? Other than "countless" "high" "reasonably good" "not even sure"?
> 
> BTW: Don't characterize what I write as "no demand" ... just weak demand.


I would characterize it as a hasty generalization. The people who post here about being disappointed by Dish because Speed HD is not carried is but a small subset of the subscriber base--which I 'm sure you know. The only people who really know what those numbers are aren't talking so numbers are useless which makes any citation suspect and reduces any argument--pro or con--to speculation.

Scott

PS I am an F1 fan, btw. I know the International feeds aren't HD, but I also know that watching an SD picture on an HD channel gives a better picture.


----------



## James Long

> June 21st, 2007 - http://motorsportsnews.net/archives/577
> 
> On TV ratings, NASCAR continues to dominate the interest of US fans regardless of being off the past and present season by a significant amount. While F1, IRL and CCWS are lucky to get a 1.0 audience share, NASCAR consistently gets 3-4 times that amount. The US TV ratings combined for F1, IRL and CCWS don't ever equal what NASCAR pulls every week for TV audience share. So NASCAR must be doing something right and the others need to change things around.


Back to the point ... using "it has F1!" as a selling point for Speed HD isn't a compelling argument. Speed HD needs something unique and compelling that isn't just "more of coverage available elsewhere" or "sports of limited interest". They need a REAL hook ... and it needs to be in REAL HD.


----------



## WebTraveler

lukin4u said:


> you obvioulsly have no idea how big motorsports are here in the US then
> and for that matter F1 is the second most watched sport in the world
> 
> just look @ how many pages this thread is


As I have said, it is a small, but vocal crowd.


----------



## ZBoomer

I'm a big racing fan, but the only thing really on Speed I watch is motorcycle racing - AMA road racing, Motocross, World SBK, MotoGP, etc. I'd love to see that in HD no doubt, but I'm not even sure the feeds are HD, so may be moot at this point.


----------



## slowmo

James Long said:


> Existing channels are not likely to go away. Perhaps if Speed would have accelerated into HD a year or two ago they would have grabbed an early slot. Now the have to compete like any other channel.
> 
> If you believe that Voom or any other channel was a mistake then why don't you support tougher guidelines now? Or is it just tougher guidelines for every channel _EXCEPT_ the one you want?


I don't advocate removing channels. I want more channels / choices. I just find it peculiar that Speed HD is being held to a higher standard than the many other mediocre HD channels currently offered on Dish. And by mediocre, I refer to a lack of sufficient HD content (ex. TBS) and / or viewer interest.

Furthermore, when making a decision to add an HD channel, it is inappropriate (i.e. premature) to base that decision on viewer interest for the related SD channel. Just because TBS SD is popular (who knows - the final court decision may actually be different the next time you watch a Law & Order episode for the 48th time?) does not mean that TBS HD will have many viewers. Same holds for Webtraveler's favorite Spongebob series ("Heck, we just bought little Junior his own 65" 1080p plasma").

I may be wrong, but I don't recall any stats cited in this thread regarding actual ratings for HD channels - not the SD counterparts. In many respects, HD channels are niche for the time being. Without such HD ratings, many of the arguments offered herein are as irrelevant as the criticized references to F1's global viewing audience.


----------



## James Long

People watching an HD upconvert channel will be a subset of the SD channel viewership for quite some time - but the SD viewership still gives a good idea of the demand. The HD only channels (like others in limited distribution) need to be adjusted based on the number of homes that the channel is available in.

There does seem to be an "anything in HD" movement ... but HD penetration is still small and as it grows more people are looking for "what I watch ... improved" not just "anything". In other words, last year you might have wowed a viewer with a sport they never knew existed just because it is now in HD ... and two years ago you might have wowed a viewer with a package of HD movie and entertainment channels. Today the popularity of the content itself is more of a major factor.

Speed HD will be added to DISH ... perhaps by the end of the year (even though it has not made the lists). If it had do or die content it would already be lit up ... but in 2008 there is a higher standard for do or die.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> If it had do or die content it would already be lit up ... but in 2008 there is a higher standard for do or die.


Hmmm. So fundamentally none of highest Nielson rated shows appearing now on cable channels are "do or die" HD for Dish Network. But I can watch Fresh Prince of Bel Aire reruns in stretch-o-vision on "do or die" TBSHD. Dish Network appears to have a unique sense of "do or die." On the other hand speaking of Dish doing-or-dying from Out to Launch:


> DIRECTV is shifting its advertising campaign from "4th Wall," where memorable movie scenes were recreated using the original stars, to a series of ads directed by Christopher Guest and featuring members of his comedic ensemble cast. That would be a "yes" to an Ed Begley, Jr. appearance and a "no" to seeing Catherine O'Hara. I wonder if the spots were adlibbed, much like Guest's films. The "Empty Cable Suit" campaign takes place at Cable headquarters, where executives are brainstorming about ways to keep up with DIRECTV. An exec asks his team if they are doing as well in the customer satisfaction department as DIRECTV. The response: hearty laughter. Watch it here. Another suit details DIRECTV's impressive amount of sports in HDTV format and suggests a paradigm shift. To what, he has no idea. See it here. Cable's solution to keeping its customers from deserting the company for DIRECTV is louder channels. My favorite ad. The final ad shows a brainstorming session that ends with the grand plan of making up false statistics to compare to DIRECTV's offerings. Click here to watch. Deutsch Los Angeles created the campaign and Deutsch New York handled the media buy.


And they're likely to accomplish this advertising without a lawsuit. Imagine that.


----------



## James Long

TBS was "do or die" last October when it was added.
Now that there are plenty of channels to choose from DISH needs to choose more wisely.

Off topic slam of DISH Network noted and ignored. This is a Speed HD thread.


----------



## DishTSR3Mentor

Is this Phrelin guy for real?

Are you seriously going to get on a Dish Network forum just to blast the company that you shouldn't be concerned with?

That's really mature (sarcasm noted).

Now, back to Speed HD, it was not on a long list of HD that was announced on the latest Charlie Chat. Doesn't mean its dead, but it could mean its low on the priority list.


----------



## slowmo

James Long said:


> TBS was "do or die" last October when it was added.
> Now that there are plenty of channels to choose from DISH needs to choose more wisely.
> 
> Off topic slam of DISH Network noted and ignored. This is a Speed HD thread.


I recall that TBS was "do or die" only for a vocal few on this forum who were desperate for HD coverage of the few remaining baseball games (before Fox's exclusive coverage of latter stages of playoffs). By the time TBS was added, that reason was outdated and the rest of us were left with the crap that phrelin so accurately described above.

I might understand that Dish has boxed itself into a corner with respect to current capacity. However, I don't have to view that fact as acceptable.


----------



## phrelin

DishTSR3Mentor said:


> Is this Phrelin guy for real?
> 
> Are you seriously going to get on a Dish Network forum just to blast the company that you shouldn't be concerned with?


Uhhh, gee I've been an Echostar customer for 20 years and am a shareholder. What's your reason for being here?

And I want to see Dish Network's list of "do or die" cable channels - is SpeedHd on it? If not, what is? The TBS decision was reportedly a sports decision.

Oh, and by the way, I would normally ignore SpeedHD as a subject except I talked a friend, whose middle name ought to be Nascar, into signing up with Dish. You ought to hear the crap I'm getting.


----------



## DishTSR3Mentor

If I stepped across any line, I apologize. What I was assuming with my comment was that you were another D* blowhard... I apologize, again.

As stated in the latest Charlie Chat - 

ABC Family - AMC - BET - Biography - Bravo - Cartoon Network - CNN - CMT - Disney - ESPN News - HBO2 - IFC - MGMHD - MTV - MoreMAX - Nickelodeon - Sci-Fi - Smithsonian - Starz Edge - Tennis - Toon Disney - USA Network - VH1 - The Weather Channel - WGN

are the newest channels confirmed to be coming to the Dish Network lineup.


----------



## phrelin

DishTSR3Mentor said:


> If I stepped across any line, I apologize. What I was assuming with my comment was that you were another D* blowhard... I apologize, again.


No problem. I just noticed I hadn't "shown" my signature for awhile.

And the only reason I put the DirecTV stuff on is that I'm griping everywhere I can that the new Dish Network has got to quit pretending its a technology company. It's a programming retailer. Marketing is the key to its business success, not its engineering prowess. It buys its engineering from the new Echostar and presumably others. And it is making really dumb marketing decisions for a programming retailer in the current market environment.

Edit: It has been making really dumb decisions. It looks like it is starting to get a handle on things.

Edit 2: Or maybe they are still making really dumb decisions. For instance:


RAD said:


> I've seen a couple Austin folks verify that they're on 61.5 for their locals. One of them is really ticked sine he doesn't have a 61.5 dish and E* wants $60 or a new 18 month commentment to do an install for free.


That $60 should be charged to Dish Network's marketing budget, not the customers.


----------



## James Long

DishTSR3Mentor said:


> As stated in the latest Charlie Chat -
> 
> ABC Family - AMC - BET - Biography - Bravo - Cartoon Network - CNN - CMT - Disney - ESPN News - HBO2 - IFC - MGMHD - MTV - MoreMAX - Nickelodeon - Sci-Fi - Smithsonian - Starz Edge - Tennis - Toon Disney - USA Network - VH1 - The Weather Channel - WGN
> 
> are the newest channels confirmed to be coming to the Dish Network lineup.


That is not a "do or die" list ... just a list of channels that DISH Network is willing to share. (As stated in the press release a week later, they are channels that _may_ be announced.) The "do or die" list is not available from DISH Network ... primarily because there is no die. 

BTW: I don't believe the addition of TBS HD made much sense last year ... I don't believe the vocal minority on web forums had anything to do with it ... There was probably some underlying contract with TBS HD that required it's addition or some threat made ("add now or you won't have the channel until 2009"). It certainly was not the normal way of getting a channel added.

I hope that having "TBS HD" made more money for DISH than the HD PPV channel it replaced. Somehow I see it as a toss up. But a poor decision on TBS HD doesn't mean DISH should make more poor decisions on other channels with vocal minority support.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> I hope that having "TBS HD" made more money for DISH than the HD PPV channel it replaced. Somehow I see it as a toss up. But a poor decision on TBS HD doesn't mean DISH should make more poor decisions on other channels with vocal minority support.


Sorry to pick on the "do or die" list. In the end, we all know that's the locals. Without them, Dish couldn't compete.

I have a hunch that TBSHD came with TNTHD, which together as a package wasn't such a bad decision. TNT has had alot of original programming drawing high Nielsens for a cable channel, and TBS is showing some original "interesting" comedy like "My Boys" which might appeal to a general audience as well as the baseball audience. Incidentally, TBS is creeping up in the cable Nielsens as an average 2nd place, though still well behind USA.


----------



## TulsaOK

DishTSR3Mentor said:


> Is this Phrelin guy for real?
> 
> Are you seriously going to get on a Dish Network forum just to blast the company that you shouldn't be concerned with?
> 
> That's really mature (sarcasm noted).
> 
> Now, back to Speed HD, it was not on a long list of HD that was announced on the latest Charlie Chat. Doesn't mean its dead, but it could mean its low on the priority list.


You may want to have a few more posts under your belt before you start blasting the regulars.


----------



## lukin4u

All star race wil be coming soon

on SpeedHD

it really blows when you finally get used to watching something in HD, and then you are forced to go back


----------



## puckwithahalo

*begins beating a dead horse as it may be more productive than repeating the same statements over and over again*


----------



## grooves12

James Long said:


> That is not a "do or die" list ... just a list of channels that DISH Network is willing to share. (As stated in the press release a week later, they are channels that _may_ be announced.) The "do or die" list is not available from DISH Network ... primarily because there is no die.
> 
> BTW: I don't believe the addition of TBS HD made much sense last year ... I don't believe the vocal minority on web forums had anything to do with it ... There was probably some underlying contract with TBS HD that required it's addition or some threat made ("add now or you won't have the channel until 2009"). It certainly was not the normal way of getting a channel added.
> 
> I hope that having "TBS HD" made more money for DISH than the HD PPV channel it replaced. Somehow I see it as a toss up. But a poor decision on TBS HD doesn't mean DISH should make more poor decisions on other channels with vocal minority support.


I think adding TBS went hand in hand with them losing out on getting MLB Extra Innings. They needed to have the MLB playoffs available in HD or else risk losing more sports fans who are really still the biggest early adopters of HD equipment at this point.


----------



## davethestalker

Massive crash with Michael McDowell during qualifying was not in HD. Amazingly, Michael walked away from it.

Thanks a lot Charlie. Must be hard to clap when you're sitting on your hands!


----------



## WebTraveler

lukin4u said:


> All star race wil be coming soon
> 
> on SpeedHD
> 
> it really blows when you finally get used to watching something in HD, and then you are forced to go back


Well, when only 3 people are watching, it's just not a priority.....


----------



## davethestalker

This is what we are missing. Thanks Charlie.


----------



## James Long

I'm sure that will get replayed ... often.


----------



## GrumpyBear

I watched it live, and several more times on ESPN, Espn2, CNN and it was even on MSNBC last night.
Now I would be one of the 3 people watching it live on Speed, but even then, during qualification its background noise while I work on other things.


----------



## davethestalker

James Long said:


> I'm sure that will get replayed ... often.


Yep.

When NASCAR Now played the video in full speed yesterday, the "thud" was felt through my sub. One of the Speed commentators had said that the crash was louder than many cannons he has heard.

My reason for posting that was to point out the widescreen that goes along with HD, which we are missing out on


----------



## GrumpyBear

davethestalker said:


> Yep.
> 
> When NASCAR Now played the video in full speed yesterday, the "thud" was felt through my sub. One of the Speed commentators had said that the crash was louder than many cannons he has heard.
> 
> My reason for posting that was to point out the widescreen that goes along with HD, which we are missing out on


I don't know about you, but I am finding myself watching ESPN's Nascar NOW, more often than Speeds "This week in Nascar" I am not liking the new format for the show, Victory lane needs to get some people that can stand up to Nascar, never thought I would say that about Spencer, but he has turned into a Nascar Lacky.


----------



## lukin4u

GrumpyBear said:


> I don't know about you, but I am finding myself watching ESPN's Nascar NOW, more often than Speeds "This week in Nascar" I am not liking the new format for the show, Victory lane needs to get some people that can stand up to Nascar, never thought I would say that about Spencer, but he has turned into a Nascar Lacky.


nascarNow feels better on the eyes 
than anything on speedNOHD

i just dont understand way some people here cant understand 
that the more HD the better, 
and no it is not ok to just sit back and let time take its course
there is a reason for public forum
and to vent about our series spent money going to big business
and NOT being a satisfied customer

contracts here, sat. there,

its all about money
and that is a scary thought when it comes to this thread because 
priority wont be there 
unless the rest of the world becomes as hd obsessive as we have become
(and they give us F1
then they will be forced to

drunk and tired 
lk


----------



## HobbyTalk

lukin4u said:


> drunk and tired
> lk


Obviously


----------



## Jambals

I guess I'm one of those few who would like to have Speed HD. I enjoy watching Nascar on Speed & to me it would be better than some other HD channels but as with most everything in life majority rules. Maybe we can get it by 2009 Speedweeks.


----------



## GrumpyBear

Its coming to an end, but right now SpeedTV in HD is exclusive deal with DirectTV. I am not holding my Breath, but you never know after the exclusive time frame ends what will happen. Granted, they probably haven't even started working a deal during this time period.


----------



## normang

I never understood why a channel would want to be "exclusive" to one carrier? One would think that any channel would want more eyes than any one carrier would provide to be able to charge wonderful ad rates based on eyes watching..


----------



## lukin4u

normang said:


> I never understood why a channel would want to be "exclusive" to one carrier? One would think that any channel would want more eyes than any one carrier would provide to be able to charge wonderful ad rates based on eyes watching..


the eyes are watching
it is just alot less clear than D*


----------



## FastNOC

Yeah I'm bummed speed isn't HD. It's the last channel I was really hoping for. Since they are starting to carry some of the sub races from NASCAR I was really hoping for it.

Thankfully ESPN2 carries some, and of course FOX and NBC are great. So it's OK, but i wish Speed would carry it. That way I could despise Rich Christenson in HD


----------



## James Long

Kinda ticked that Danica's first win wasn't in HD. I missed the race (on ESPN Classic Saturday night) and tuned in just in time to see her take the victory lap in a convertable and be awarded a trophy that was almost bigger than she is.


----------



## 5harkology

Just hoping it comes in time for the 2008 24 Hours of Le Mans.


----------



## mattcombs

I too am another SPEED freak who is disappointed. I'm not ready to give up but I am voicing my opinion over & over and in many places (including Dish). My family's favorite things to watch are baseball and NASCAR (ok, racing of any kind really). I am pretty loyal to Dish, let's see, ~15 years, but they had better get Speed HD to me, or I may be gone. Can't do anything about BLB package, but Speed? If they had an exclusive deal with DirecTV, I'm sure we'd know about it, but I haven't heard anything on that. But, MLB,the special NASCAR package and SPEED are giving me a lot of pull that way....


----------



## GrumpyBear

Back in November when News Corps owned SpeedTV announced that it was going HD, they said DirectTV would have the exclusive for the 1st 3 months. 
Speed HD is almost 3 months old. Granted we have no idea if they have talked to any other carrier, as NOBODY but DirectTV(now who used to own them?) has said anything about SpeedTV in HD. Speed has really fallen off this last year with programming, not at all happy with the new Victory lane and inside Nascar, and were did all the rally racing go?


----------



## Sphagnum

AllStar Race and the Truck race this weekend... and I can't watch cause I have the HD only package and Speed isn't on it.

Grr...............


----------



## GrumpyBear

Sphagnum said:


> AllStar Race and the Truck race this weekend... and I can't watch cause I have the HD only package and Speed isn't on it.
> 
> Grr...............


Well the lawsuit is over, so maybe we will see some Fox stations. Its been a busy month and you still have 1 more workday before the Race. So here is to hoping. I wouldn't hold my Breath though.


----------



## Sphagnum

Truck race is tonight... no SpeedHD announcement.... I'm screwed.... Here's to next year!


----------



## 5harkology

Does anyone know if the 2008 24 hours of Le Mans will be broadcasted on any HD channels on DISH?

I know it's too much to ask for DISH to bring speedHD up before June 14th so I won't even set my hopes on it.


----------



## Jim5506

The 24 Hours of Lemans is probably not generated in HD in France.

Most of Europe is just starting to go HD, and they have a different system than the US (not ATSC).

Most races from Europe are upconverted PAL.


----------



## 5harkology

Jim5506 said:


> The 24 Hours of Lemans is probably not generated in HD in France.
> 
> Most of Europe is just starting to go HD, and they have a different system than the US (not ATSC).
> 
> Most races from Europe are upconverted PAL.


Speed is broadcasting this race in HD, so I know it's available.... somewhere, just not on dish

I guess I'm just hoping one of the other channels will come through with this very special event.


----------

