# L3.63 Software Experiences / Bugs



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

L3.63 release notes are posted here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=64752

With the spooling of the new software, it's time to start the new "How is L3.63 working for you..." thread, so here it is.


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## MilYellow02 (Sep 12, 2006)

Well Mark, being that version 360 worked perfectly for me and I am using component, version 363 seems to be on par.  

Knock on Wood!!!!!


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

I had a bit of jerkiness this morning while watching CNN. It was really noticeable on the news ticker at the bottom. I changed the channel and it went away. I then changed it back to CNN and the jerkiness was gone.


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## wingnut1 (Nov 10, 2005)

I noticed that on recorded shows it list the episode number and the date that it originally aired now. I don't remember seeing this before, but it is a nice feature.


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## PTS (Sep 5, 2006)

HDMI still does not work. Caller ID which worked perfectly before no longer works and I'm now having audio sync problems.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

PTS, if you read other threads, you know that software won't fix HDMI. Did you check to see that your CallerID is still enabled?


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## PTS (Sep 5, 2006)

Mark Lamutt said:


> PTS, if you read other threads, you know that software won't fix HDMI. Did you check to see that your CallerID is still enabled?


Caller ID is still enabled. So that BS that Dish Network is spewing me about the HDMI issue being a software issue is just that ... BS? What can I do?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Read the HDMI failure threads. Unless you have a Vizio LCD television, hdmi failure is a hardware issue - according to what users have reported, the solder joints connecting the hdmi port to the main board are breaking apart. If you're very handy with a small soldering iron, and you own your 622 and aren't worried that you'll void your warranty, you can fix the problem. Otherwise, you need to call dish (sometimes again and again and again until you get a CSR that knows what's going on) to get your 622 replaced.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

wingnut1 said:


> I noticed that on recorded shows it list the episode number and the date that it originally aired now. I don't remember seeing this before, but it is a nice feature.


That info could be good for debugging why a recording did or didn't record properly (especially when your timer is set for New and you are getting All shows). It might help define whether the problem is the fault of the 622 or the EPG data. (Although blame doesn't matter much when "it's not working" knowing a little more can focus the blame in the right place.)


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

They still haven't fix my problem reported here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=60059

The 622 can not receive even transponder channels on Sat 129 with a legacy LNB setup


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

LG811User said:


> They still haven't fix my problem reported here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=60059
> 
> The 622 can not receive even transponder channels on Sat 129 with a legacy LNB setup


Is there any particular reason why you are staying with a legacy set up?


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

Well crap. I went home for lunch and watched a little television and the jerky video is still there. I tried changing channels again but to no effect. I didn't have this problem before L3.63. I'm going to fool around with it some tonight but if it continues looks like I'm going to have to give Dish Network a call.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Still have no Closed Captioning on my Dish HD Locals (4 major networks)
No fixes for the numerous closed captioning display option bugs.


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## tvrvic (Aug 8, 2005)

Haven't noticed any problems yet here. I did wake up to a nice all your data is corrupt so we have to remove it message, but my recordings are there and seem to work, at least the few I have had the chance to try.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

This was a fixed bug after L351 but it is now back. It is present on all of my ViP622 receivers. My other ATSC tuners work fine with the audio on the affected channel.

This is a moderate to severe problem.

This occurs on OTA channel KRCR 07-01 (digital 34) DMA 130. KRCR has not changed their audio since the VIP 622 premiered. KRCR broadcasts the HD digital channel with standard stereo Dolby 2.0 at best. 

About every thirteen seconds to the dot the audio disappears for about 1/4 second.

The audio drop outs are also present in all previously recorded (before L363) programs for said channel.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Boylehome. Is this through your optical to an AV or are you seeing this through your standard RCA jack outputs and RF?


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## Flasshe (Aug 17, 2004)

Haven't had much time to experiment yet, but so far I liked 3.60 better than I'm liking 3.63. I've now experienced a new kind of jerky video with 3.63 on an SD recording where there was a slight vertical up-and-down movement rather than the usual looks-like-missing-frames stuttering. Most noticable with static text on the screen. Skip back button didn't fix it, but switching to a live channel (which exhibited the same problem) and then back to the recording did make it go away. I'm not encouraged.


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

James Long said:


> Is there any particular reason why you are staying with a legacy set up?


Good question.

Becuase I don't want to pay for:

DP Twin ($48)
DP Dual ($40)
DP34 switch($65)

Also, in my scenario I would need to upgrade one of my old receivers for a DP model (311 receiver - $109) or buy an ~$70 adapter.

I currently have a 622, a 508, and an old baseline receiver (forget the model number).

There's no reason it shouldn't work - other than this bug.


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## PTS (Sep 5, 2006)

In addition to my caller ID not working now, my receiver shutdown out of the blue this afternoon, a problem I never had before.


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

I can get my jerkiness on SD channels to quit by changing the 622 to anything but 1080i. 480i, 480P, and 720P do not show the jerkiness. Also, HD channels don't show the jerkiness at all no matter what resolution is set at.

Of course, when I watch at 480i for a few minutes and then change back to 1080i, the jerkiness disappears.


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

wingnut1 said:


> I noticed that on recorded shows it list the episode number and the date that it originally aired now. I don't remember seeing this before, but it is a nice feature.


The same info also appears on almost all the guide listings.

My caller ID still works fine. Haven't noticed any video or audio issues so far.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> Boylehome. Is this through your optical to an AV or are you seeing this through your standard RCA jack outputs and RF?


Ron,

One is through optical to AV equipment, one is to RCA connectors to monitor, two are through HDMI. When in single mode, it is also present through RF input to second TV.

It is there for all of them. It isn't present on Local into Local satellite channel.

It is isolated to the HD channel only.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

This is a partially repaired bug that existed in L360. 

The mutated bug is a severe problem. It causes the receiver to lose audio/video and become non-functional until a power button or power cord reset is performed.

L363 has repaired the reset trigger when there are more than 30 DVR Events, and when changing a timer, and then going into the Local Channels menu to perform a ADD/Scan channel.

This new bug only seems to affect the receiver when it is in the single mode. The number of DVR timers exist doesn't seem to matter.

This is repeatable.

Put the 622 into single user mode.
Go into Timers List, select and edit that timer. Complete by selecting Done.
Go into Local Channels and select either Scan Locals or Add Locals (just waiting before making any selection has caused the 622 to become non-responsive)

The 622 will either become non-responsive while in the Local Channel menu or after exiting out. If upon a successful exit, I am able to change channels a few times with (no video/audio)before the 622 becomes non-responsive.


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## PacersGuy (Dec 6, 2004)

i have audio issues now. after a few minutes i will lose all audio and have to either a power cord or button reboot to regain for another *few* minutes. hooray!


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

So far, so good here. I am not having video or audio issues (connected via component/rca). Caller ID still works. I did come home to no HD channels, but that story is posted elsewhere. Probably a targeting issue: I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the update.

I'm also happy about having original air dates in the Timers list. That was a good add.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

PacersGuy said:


> i have audio issues now. after a few minutes i will lose all audio and have to either a power cord or button reboot to regain for another *few* minutes. hooray!


 I have experienced audio loss with my 622 with the HDMI cable. Are you using HDMI? I have used the HDMI since I got the 622 and never had any problems until L363. The audio went after I deleted a DVR event that I had finished watching. I did a power cord reboot and all has been good for a while but now it is time to check again.


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## gsxr800 (Sep 21, 2006)

I have lost audio a half a dozen times today. using toslink. video is also jerky at times. The only way to fix it is to do a reset.


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## DAG (Feb 7, 2006)

Just had my system freezeup and reboot. It has not done this in weeks until now!
Dual mode, TV1 an TV2 on different stations, both SD. TV2 was recording a program which the viewer was also watching live. TV2 user jumped back a few seconds to see some previous scene, then hit live TV. Live TV came back and froze up the TV2 screen on its program as well as freezing TV1 on its own,different, program scene. After about two minutes of frozen TVs, the system shut down and rebooted on its own.

Didn't see this kind of behavior with 360.


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## PacersGuy (Dec 6, 2004)

boylehome said:


> I have experienced audio loss with my 622 with the HDMI cable. Are you using HDMI? I have used the HDMI since I got the 622 and never had any problems until L363. The audio went after I deleted a DVR event that I had finished watching. I did a power cord reboot and all has been good for a while but now it is time to check again.


nope.. not on hdmi. i've now totally lost audio on tv1 - tv2 has audio, but only when in dual mode (no audio on single mode, shared view). multiple hard reboots, check switch and everything i can think of... dish is sending a new 622, and crediting me for one PPV to make up for the MANY i have on the 622. 

editded to add: no audio on toslink and composite audio out....


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

For people having audio issues. Try a power plug reset and see if things settle down. I know in the past after an update, some boxes can get flaky and sometimes a power cord reboot clears some strange issues up.


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## Aliens (Jul 3, 2004)

PacersGuy said:


> i have audio issues now. after a few minutes i will lose all audio and have to either a power cord or button reboot to regain for another *few* minutes. hooray!


Ditto.



PTS said:


> &#8230;my receiver shutdown out of the blue this afternoon, a problem I never had before.


Ditto.



Ron Barry said:


> For people having audio issues. Try a power plug reset and see if things settle down. I know in the past after an update, some boxes can get flaky and sometimes a power cord reboot clears some strange issues up.


I tried that twice and it failed within the hour. I'm not using HDMI. Also, two of my recorded programs were listed as corrupted and recovered but sound was missing. During one of those programs, I was watching another channel with no sound problems.

I was glad to see the original airdate now displayed, but this stuff is making me a little unhappy at the moment. I can't have this occur during football games. It froze up on me during the game last Sunday (not related to latest update) and I thought I was going to freak out.


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## JM Anthony (Nov 16, 2003)

Mine is a recent installation (couple of weeks old) and so far so good on my end. No glitches with either audio or video, at least after the first 90 min. of watching!

John


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## pbrown (May 23, 2002)

I had the jerky video problem on all the SD channels today. Power Cord reboot solved problem.


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## jaymerkramer (Aug 25, 2006)

DAG said:


> Just had my system freezeup and reboot. It has not done this in weeks until now!
> Dual mode, TV1 an TV2 on different stations, both SD. TV2 was recording a program which the viewer was also watching live. TV2 user jumped back a few seconds to see some previous scene, then hit live TV. Live TV came back and froze up the TV2 screen on its program as well as freezing TV1 on its own,different, program scene. After about two minutes of frozen TVs, the system shut down and rebooted on its own.
> 
> Didn't see this kind of behavior with 360.


I have had mine for about 4 weeks now. Mine just did this exact same thing, except it wouldn't not reboot on it's own. Just frozen pictures on each tv. I had to finally hold down the power button and is back on now. I lost about 5 minutes of CSI, but I'll live with that. Hopefully this won't be a reoccurring problem. :nono:
I did notice in the diagnostic screen, counters there was a 255 next to HDD SMART. I don't recall seeing that before but maybe I just never noticed it before.


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## karspur (Aug 16, 2006)

I have only watched two channels, but am having audio problems too. Sometimes the audio goes away completely and sometimes it is in and out. I changed the channel and then went back again, that worked a couple of times. Tried a reboot and a power cord boot and that didn't help. I am hooked up with optical cable to a receiver for my audio.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

karspur said:


> I have only watched two channels, but am having audio problems too. Sometimes the audio goes away completely and sometimes it is in and out. I changed the channel and then went back again, that worked a couple of times. Tried a reboot and a power cord boot and that didn't help. I am hooked up with optical cable to a receiver for my audio.


i have the same setup, and i am having the same problems. I also lost all sat channels today, and finally after resetting it 3-4 times, i was able to get them back. It kept having problems aquiriing the sat signal. I havent had any problems up until now, so this update has MAJOR problems. I havent tried a power cord reboot, but from what im hearing it doesnt do much, but i will try it anyway and see if it helps.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

I noticed the counters were updated with new items and different organization. Also noticed some other GUI changes, subtle things here and there. Also, I can't remember if this was always that way, but the audio stays on when doing a search.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Yep. Audio on during search entry is new (and appreciated).


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## Todd H (Aug 18, 2006)

Did a reboot of the box and the jerkiness on the SD channels has completely disappeared. Hopefully it will stay that way.


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## vip (Jan 26, 2005)

I use a digital cable for audio and rca plugs for second monitor and uhf broadcast on channel 55, all lose audio after a while. I can reset my 622 and audio will return only to lose it again within 30 minutes. Dish is sending me a new receiver.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I like the Episode number and the original air date but I don't remember seeing this on my 942? I only had it for about a month so maybe they added it after I replaced it with the 622?


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## Amherst (Sep 21, 2006)

This unit has been in service for only two weeks. New dish customer, have switched from direct. Not hooked HDMI yet, waiting for cables to be delivered. No bugs or issues until yesterday after update to 3.63. Had pixelated video on off air channels with full signal strength (93). Seems not present today.
After reading through this forum, seems obvious why dish is not supplying HDMI cables with the 622 and 211's. I'm not happy having to purchase these, and wondering if I made a mistake spending the money to switch over.


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## jetjock (Jun 21, 2006)

Lost all audio and had to pull the plug. It happened while watching a recorded show. I paused it and then went to continue watching when the bug appeared.


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## MilYellow02 (Sep 12, 2006)

For a power cord reboot, how long do you leave the 622 unplugged?

Thanks!


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## fdelin (Nov 14, 2005)

Everything seems fine for me. I'm using HDMI, optical audio, OTA locals and other than the omnipresent slight voice sync issue on HDNet and only HDNet everything other than sat 129, tp 30 is great. I love the episode guide info, it had just come out on the 942 when I upgraded to the 622 and I immediately missed it. Now i can organize all those episodes of good eats so they show up in order in the listings.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

Has anyone else noticed a reduction in signal strength on HD stations (perhaps limited to sat. 61.5) since the upgrade? Two of us in this thread have noticed this, but I'm not certain that it's related to the software.


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## Maxfli500 (Jun 24, 2005)

Tried to Use PIP this morning to flip to HDNet and see the Space Shuttle return. The unit locked up with a Check Switch message, and only a power cord reset would get me out of it. Audio has also been way far out of sync. I rewinded the view a few minutes and that helped. Anyone else having PIP issues or is it just me.


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## Steve H (May 15, 2006)

I didn't help at all. Still get the 622 rebooting on it's own and now we are getting more pixelated pictures.


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## Aliens (Jul 3, 2004)

I’m not sure what Dish’s procedure is on this, but can/will they go back to the last update until they resolve these current issues? My fears of letting my rock solid 942 go are becoming a reality. Yes, I am panicking! With Lost starting next week and football underway, I’m afraid I may be a hazard to anyone around me if I lose either one of those. !danger:


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

This is the second time since L363 has downloaded. Both times it has happened only to my version "D" ViP622 that is used with HDMI. 

Around 6:31AM I was watching a DVR event: Late Night with Conan Episode: 3322. I paused the program. While in pause after about 10 seconds, I observed the panel lights switch off. The video went to black screen but the pause bar remained. I resumed the program by pressing play. The video returned but the audio was absent. I exited out of the DVR event and found that other channels were without audio.

A power button reset returned the 622 back to normal. This 622 is used in the dual TV mode, TV2 was not in use. This 622 has been used for HDMI since activation and has never this problem until yesterday.

Yesterday when I lost the audio, I didn't notice until afterwards that the front panel lights were also off, but didn't relate it to the audio loss.


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

James Long said:


> Yep. Audio on during search entry is new (and appreciated).


Yeah that is nice. Now, one question, why can't the box show the info screen when a recording is happening? Is there audio on local OTA setup screen now, didn't check that one.

Did anyone else notice that the graphics look like they were cleaned up a little (nicer fades and shades) and was there always the transparency on the info screen etc... on the 622?


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

It seems like it is the newer members to this board that are having the most problems. I wonder why that is.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ebaltz said:


> Yeah that is nice. Now, one question, why can't the box show the info screen when a recording is happening? Is there audio on local OTA setup screen now, didn't check that one.


What info screen? There are few functions that I have found that don't work during a record (such as Movies on Demand and other DishHome applications).

Audio still drops on the OTA setup screen - but I believe that is one of the settings that requires the receiver to be at rest (not recording) so the user can do channel scans and other functions that requires the tuners. Point Dish also won't work during a record (for obvious reasons).


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

James Long said:


> What info screen? There are few functions that I have found that don't work during a record (such as Movies on Demand and other DishHome applications).
> 
> Audio still drops on the OTA setup screen - but I believe that is one of the settings that requires the receiver to be at rest (not recording) so the user can do channel scans and other functions that requires the tuners. Point Dish also won't work during a record (for obvious reasons).


The system info screen--the one that says what the current software version et al is.


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## sampatterson (Aug 27, 2002)

boylehome said:


> This is a partially repaired bug that existed in L360.
> 
> This is repeatable.
> 
> ...


Yep, ran into this one last night also.


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## Bogey62 (Dec 1, 2002)

Mark Lamutt said:


> L3.63 release notes are posted here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=64752
> 
> With the spooling of the new software, it's time to start the new "How is L3.63 working for you..." thread, so here it is.


As if the timer limits weren't bad enough, now they REDUCED the Search list to 30 entries! Any entry made after that deletes an existing one! Come on Dish, don't remove features or downgrade them.

I have had one spontaneous reboot on my new "F" revision 622.


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## WillyT (Mar 18, 2006)

Ever since I had my 622 installed & hooked up to my Vizio 42HD plasma last April, I was annoyed with (after turning on the Vizio & 622) having to always reboot the 622 to get it to link to the Vizio via the HDMI port.

Last night, after turning on the 622 & Vizio, and just as I was about to reboot the 622, I noticed that I actually had a picture. Just to make sure that this wasn't some sort of fluke, I turned them on & off a few times. Bottom line is that the Vizio & 622 now talk to each other via HDMI.

So, whatever the new software is, it works for me!!!!

JohnM

PS> BTW, other than the annoying reboot problem, the 622's HDMI port has always worked fine for me.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

> Audio has also been way far out of sync. I rewinded the view a few minutes and that helped. Anyone else having PIP issues or is it just me.


Strange in San Francisco the audio sync problem has been fixed on channel 7, at the expense of all other channels being out of sync. I cant find an end game to fix this problem.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ebaltz said:


> The system info screen--the one that says what the current software version et al is.


Does the short version (press MENU twice) of the info screen also stop your recording? That's the one I normally use to look for software updates and I don't remember it stopping a record.

The full "System Info" that is burried deep in the menus needs to stop recordings so it can take over the tuner and check for satellites. I wouldn't expect that one not to stop a record as it needs a free tuner to work correctly.


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## dude2 (May 28, 2006)

Have any of you checked your signal strength on 129 since 3.63.
Weak transponders that were in the upper 60s like 67 etc, and now in the low 50s. Lowest is at 52. What gives.


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## David K (Nov 27, 2004)

I pull my OTA out of Dayton and I get my dish locals from Cinci. All Guide info mapped down fine since I got the 622. Since the new software release, the 622 will not map down guide data to my OTA locals, I did everything I could think of and called dish, they did everything they could think of, and contributed it to the software release. They sent a note to the engineers, which does me no good, all my shows premier this week!!! So much for NBR!!


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

dude2 said:


> Have any of you checked your signal strength on 129 since 3.63.
> Weak transponders that were in the upper 60s like 67 etc, and now in the low 50s. Lowest is at 52. What gives.


Interesting. A couple of us are seeing the same on 61.5.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

For those of you seeing Audio Loss problems on this release, please check out the following thread and post all the information you can each time it happens. I want to collect as much information on this as I can.

Thanks

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=64900


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## JMikeF (May 2, 2003)

I created two timers: one for HBO-HD, one for SHO-HD.
When I played back the events, they were recorded not from the HD channels, but from the SD channels.

Very Weird


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## MikesBark (Apr 20, 2006)

Since yesterday my 622 lost signals from all three satelites (119, 110, 129). The dish and all antenna cables are file. I have done several power button and power cord resets. I called Dish tech support last night and the TSR told me to wait for the storm to pass. Yeah it was cloudy but it wasn't stormy. Some light drizzle and no wind. I live in Oregon. This is pretty much what the weather here is from fall through spring and I haven't had this problem before in the 5 years that I've had Dish. TSR didn't ask me to verify the software version. I just saw here today that 363 was released on 9/19. My HDMI has also not worked for a couple months and I mentioned that to the TSR too. He read me the spiel about HDMI standards and that TV manufacturers don't adhere to them and that software updates will sometimes "break" HDMI. I told him that I've read online (here) that this is Dish's standard response. He then said, "how about I send you a new 622, that's what you want, right?". That kind of threw me back. I wasn't expecting that so quickly but, sure, yeah, that's exactly what I want. So I shall wait for the new receiver to arrive. 

I'm curious though if 363 has killed the signal on other 622's. I think I read at least one other post in here that mentioned that but it started working again after several resets. I guess I'll continue to give that a try, heck, what else left can I do? The TSR said that a "Check Switch" needs to be done but he didn't want to have me do that on my receiver until the sky was clear. Fortunately recorded programs still work at least.

/mike


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

MikesBark said:


> I'm curious though if 363 has killed the signal on other 622's. I think I read at least one other post in here that mentioned that but it started working again after several resets. I guess I'll continue to give that a try, heck, what else left can I do? The TSR said that a "Check Switch" needs to be done but he didn't want to have me do that on my receiver until the sky was clear. Fortunately recorded programs still work at least.
> 
> /mike


There have been a couple of reports of decreased signal strength since 3.63. In my case, it resulted in total loss of signal from 61.5 last night in some light cloud cover. It was back this morning when the weather cleared, but my signal is weaker across the board on all satellites (110, 119, 61.5). Looks like any mild cloud cover will probably knock me out on 61.5 again.

See here and here for a couple other reports.


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## PTS (Sep 5, 2006)

L3.63 officially f'd up my receiver. Audio is now almost completely unreliable in any mode.


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## pdxsam (Jun 20, 2004)

I've had a weird thing happening since the new update. When I'm recording a show and watching a recorded show.. if I skip forward too many times, and too many could be differing numbers, the record light will go out. The recordings will still continue to record but the light stays off. New timers fire off without a problem. A soft reboot returns everything to normal.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Today around 1:30PM when I activated my Version, "D" ViP 622 that has the HDMI connect, I found that there was no video or audio. A power button reset didn't help. An extended power cord unplug didn't help. I carefully tried unplugging and plugging the HDMI cable in and out of the 622 and the TV, it didn't help. I plugged the HDMI cable into another 622 and the HDMI worked on that one. 

I contacted Tech. Support, explained the problem, followed advise, and they are sending me a ViP622 replacement.


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## jaymerkramer (Aug 25, 2006)

jaymerkramer said:


> I have had mine for about 4 weeks now. Mine just did this exact same thing, except it wouldn't not reboot on it's own. Just frozen pictures on each tv. I had to finally hold down the power button and is back on now. I lost about 5 minutes of CSI, but I'll live with that. Hopefully this won't be a reoccurring problem. :nono:
> I did notice in the diagnostic screen, counters there was a 255 next to HDD SMART. I don't recall seeing that before but maybe I just never noticed it before.


Just an update, mine just totally froze up again. I got home from work. Tv1 was on an SD channel and TV2 on an SD channel, nothing recording on any tuners either. I was flipping channels on tv2 using the channel up channel down keys not the guide, when I switched from Fox News to Headline news pictures froze on both tv's and would not clear untill I did a soft reset. I have a full night of recordings starting tonight I am afraid to even try to watch them untill all is recorded. Why would they roll out new software right at the start of the fall premier's? You have to know that any bugs are gonna piss people off the most now, than before the fall season or after. I know they also just added some new codes to the encryption streams on the same day, I wonder if this could be causing some of the issues? Just food for thought.


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## wje (Mar 8, 2006)

I amost feel bad posting this, given the widespread problems others are having.

No problems since the download (but see below). I use HDMI for video and optical for audio. I don't know what series I have, but I've had the unit for only a few months.

I have noticed one thing a couple of times, which may be total coincidence. I've seen some rare and minor video breakup. Typically, only a small area that lasts only a short time (< 1 sec). Noticed this on HD locals (not OTA). It's almost like the a few packets are being dropped from the bitstream, which then resyncs on the next full-frame update. I don't remember seeing this before.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I have seen the picture breakup you are talking about on a previous release wje. I seem to see it more on Dish HD locals than other content, but I have seen it on other channels.


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## jaymerkramer (Aug 25, 2006)

Damn another reboot. Just watching back tonights shows and noticed that Happy Hour was split in to 2 recordings, 1 was 27 minutes and the other 5 minutes long. This was on a MPEG4 local HD channel. I have had no bad video or sound. NBC had a lot of popping in the recordings tonight but I think this was in the transmission because none of the other recordings so far tonight have had this. My unit was totally rock solid before the update, now I have had 3 reboots. Hopefully they can out a quick patch to address these issues.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

jaymerkramer said:


> Hopefully they can out a quick patch to address these issues.


The problem is that this is software. Putting it out too quickly is what got them into this mess in the first place. It takes time and resources to adequately regress software. Ideally they'd roll back to 3.60 and then test 3.63 the way it should've been tested to begin with. I'm concerned that they'll see all the problems this release caused, duplicate the problem, code a fix and then slap it back up on the satellite causing even more headaches for everyone. I just got my 622 a couple of days ago but I haven't hooked it up yet primarily because of all the3.63 issues. My 942 is working perfectly and I don't want to take a step backward - the spousal unit would not appreciate that. :nono2:


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## jaymerkramer (Aug 25, 2006)

kmcnamara said:


> The problem is that this is software. Putting it out too quickly is what got them into this mess in the first place. It takes time and resources to adequately regress software. Ideally they'd roll back to 3.60 and then test 3.63 the way it should've been tested to begin with. I'm concerned that they'll see all the problems this release caused, duplicate the problem, code a fix and then slap it back up on the satellite causing even more headaches for everyone. I just got my 622 a couple of days ago but I haven't hooked it up yet primarily because of all the3.63 issues. My 942 is working perfectly and I don't want to take a step backward - the spousal unit would not appreciate that. :nono2:


I never really thought of it that way very good point. I'll practice some patient's and take a deep breath. The good thing is, none of wife's stuff has been fubared so far.
I'll keep posting my problems as they occur though. In the hope that someone from Dish reads these forums, hopefully all this feed back on these forums helps them see whats going on.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kmcnamara said:


> Putting it out too quickly is what got them into this mess in the first place. It takes time and resources to adequately regress software. Ideally they'd roll back to 3.60 and then test 3.63 the way it should've been tested to begin with.


Well it has been about six weeks since L3.60 and I'm sure some of that was spent testing. I'm sure there are a few customers that use their receivers in ways that have not been predicted. That's why it is good to have problem reports in the forums. Ranting and raving isn't very helpful, but if people are having problems it's good to see what those problems are.


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## HDlover (Jul 28, 2006)

Lost sound momentarily, changed channels, now the 622 is working but the front of the box display lights are off.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

James Long said:


> Well it has been about six weeks since L3.60 and I'm sure some of that was spent testing. I'm sure there are a few customers that use their receivers in ways that have not been predicted. That's why it is good to have problem reports in the forums. Ranting and raving isn't very helpful, but if people are having problems it's good to see what those problems are.


Didn't realize I was ranting and raving.  I'm sure it was tested some - just not very well apparently. Software quality assurance and testing is my vocation so I know of what I speak.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Remember we are in the support forum... ... lets keep focus on providing information related to discussing experiences with 3.63 and away from our opinions as to what we preceive the release process was. 

Since those types of conversions are extermely hard to take on without rock throwing, they are much better suited for the general forums and I suggest if there is a desire to speculate on Dish's release process to take it outside of the support forums where these opinion type conversations belong. 

I know some people are feeling some frustration and some pain with this release and it is understandable, nothing wrong with stating frustration and pain here as long as we focus on our experiences and avoid tossing rocks out of frustration.


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## slowmo (Sep 22, 2006)

dude2 said:


> Have any of you checked your signal strength on 129 since 3.63.
> Weak transponders that were in the upper 60s like 67 etc, and now in the low 50s. Lowest is at 52. What gives.


Ditto.

Just started Dish service a month ago. Two weeks ago, after pitiful reception on many 129 transponders, I had a tech return to adjust the alignment and he was able to find a good compromise for 110, 119 and 129. Afterwards, my worst 129 transponder was in the low 70's and very stable.

Now the worst of the transponders are in the 50's but, so far, I haven't noticed the severe tiling, lock-up, etc. that I experienced in the first 2 weeks (typically when the signal dropped into the 40's).


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## Grandude (Oct 21, 2004)

My problems with this release:
1. Audio dropout after skip forward (reported details in proper thread)
2. Severe, and I mean really severe pixelation of recorded picture. After a pause and start again, pause and start again it settled down. No further action taken then.
3. Noticeable drop in signal strength reported on all satellites. 110,119,129and148. This is puzzling!


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

Just wanted to post an update to my channel dropout issue. The main problem was that the dish was out of alignment, though I did still see the 10 point drop in signal strength after performing a check switch. The summary is here.


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

Im having audio dropouts on my channels...usually when I changed channels or unpause mostly.


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## pcnetwrx (Jun 6, 2006)

I read someone lost their Caller ID on this release, and another still had their Caller ID working. My Caller ID which only worked VERY rarely is now working correctly.

I had a 10 second audio dropout today that cleared itself on an Encore SD channel. My audio signal indicators went dark for that time on my receiver (optical link). I had chalked it up to problems at the head end until reading here about all of the audio problems.

No problems with spontaneous reboots or other weirdness, at least not yet.


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

I'm having issues with hitting pause and returning to hit pause again and it jumps to LiveTV. 

Anyone else seeing this?

Yup, tried the unplug thing alot and gave up. This started after the upgrade.

Allow me to add it happens with HD content and SD content but does not happen when hitting pause from an OTA channel.


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## MilYellow02 (Sep 12, 2006)

SMosher said:


> I'm having issues with hitting pause and returning to hit pause again and it jumps to LiveTV.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this?
> 
> Yup, tried the unplug thing alot and gave up. This started after the upgrade.


How long are you pausing a particular show?


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

MilYellow02 said:


> How long are you pausing a particular show?


We've clocked it at various times. Longest we let it pause for the test was 10 minutes.


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

PTS said:


> ....Caller ID which worked perfectly before no longer works and I'm now having audio sync problems.


 I have had the opposite experience with Caller ID. I have DSL and (of course) a line filter in the line to the 622. Before L.3.63, the caller ID was extremely intermittent - working perhaps 10-15% of the time. Now it works 100% of the time. Great! I'm glad to see this fixed. Also I was having audio dropouts with L.3.60 - sometimes I had to change channels and then switch back again to get the audio back. None of that with L.3.63 - audio is fine (both analog and digital.)

<musing>... I wonder if any of this could be hardware related. I had my 622 crap out on me while I was away on vacation (Sept. 9th to be exact) and when I returned on 9/18 - no recordings, no ability to record anything and no trick play (basically no DVR!) Every timer I had set before leaving had fired, but no recordings. Time for a replacement 622. I had a rev C mommaboard in the old box (April 2006) and there's a rev H mommaboard in the replacement box I installed yesterday which is working perfectly.

.....G


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## guruka (Dec 27, 2003)

pcnetwrx said:


> ...<snip>My Caller ID which only worked VERY rarely is now working correctly.


Same here. Caller ID was rarely working with L.3.60 and now works 100% of the time with L.3.63. I have it hooked up to a Windstream DSL line with a single line filter.

.....G


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## LG811User (Jan 12, 2005)

LG811User said:


> Good question.
> 
> Becuase I don't want to pay for:
> 
> ...


OK.

L3.63 did indeed fix my problem!!

I needed to do a "checkswitch" after the upgrade - now all is well.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.


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## jaymerkramer (Aug 25, 2006)

jaymerkramer said:


> Damn another reboot. Just watching back tonights shows and noticed that Happy Hour was split in to 2 recordings, 1 was 27 minutes and the other 5 minutes long. This was on a MPEG4 local HD channel. I have had no bad video or sound. NBC had a lot of popping in the recordings tonight but I think this was in the transmission because none of the other recordings so far tonight have had this. My unit was totally rock solid before the update, now I have had 3 reboots. Hopefully they can out a quick patch to address these issues.


Another update. Has been a couple of days since last reboot. This time no recordings going on. Receiver in dual mode. Watching Matrix on Tnt-HD, phone rang and right when the caller id popped up, receiver locked up solid. Had to do power button reset to get it back up.


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## HDlover (Jul 28, 2006)

I'm still getting wavy video even though this is one of the things it was supposed to fix. Fortunately is goes away after a short time on its own so far.


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## mchaney (Aug 17, 2006)

For those seeing lower signal strength, are the numbers just lower, or is the signal actually dropping? It is possible that Dish did something to the signal level calibration to make dish pointing more sensitive (to aid in better pointing) but it may not affect performance.

Mike


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Well after reading others doing the check switch to fix their problems and so I tried it right after the three video freezes followed by the automatic reboots last night around 8:30pm. 

First I ran it without the satellite coaxes plugged in to clear the matrix. Then I did a power cord reboot -left it off for 1 minute. Then I plugged it back in and plugged the coaxes back in and ran another check switch. I have to report today I watched tv all day and I have not suffered any audio dropouts/video freezes or spontaneous reboots.

Maybe the above check switch procedure fixed my problems. Maybe everyone should try it and see if their individual problems go away. Report back if you see similar results.


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## clarkbaker (Sep 23, 2006)

Hi team.. 

I am not sure if the upgrade caused the issue.. but shortly after I received my 622 the HDMI output port failed. All other outputs continued to work. 

Tested.. and found the fault with the receiver for sure!! NO SIGNAL OUTPUT and it did have L3.63 as I could see that via the Component Video Output screen.

FYI


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## srrobinson2 (Sep 16, 2003)

After the L3.63 update, I am experiencing very frequent audio dropouts on live (sat and OTA) and DVR (sat and OTA) events. I am using an optical connection from my 622 to my JVC Receiver. 

Front panel reboots do not correct the problem.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

clarkbaker said:


> Hi team..
> 
> I am not sure if the upgrade caused the issue.. but shortly after I received my 622 the HDMI output port failed. All other outputs continued to work.
> 
> ...


Unless it immediately occurred I would more suspect your HDMI port went south and it is not related to 3.63. If it was immediately after the update I would more suspect the update.


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## keenan (Feb 8, 2005)

Okay, with L3.60 I wasn't having any audio problems and hardly ever any video stuttering. It was an acceptable situation.

Now, since L3.63 I'm having both and it's quite annoying. This is not acceptable and hopefully there's another firmware coming soon as this just ain't going to cut it.


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## RockStrongo (Jul 29, 2004)

keenan said:


> Okay, with L3.60 I wasn't having any audio problems and hardly ever any video stuttering. It was an acceptable situation.
> 
> Now, since L3.63 I'm having both and it's quite annoying. This is not acceptable and hopefully there's another firmware coming soon as this just ain't going to cut it.


Ditto....I was soooo happy that they had fixed the issues....now they are back!

What the deuce!?!


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## kdwebsol (Jan 29, 2006)

I am having a small issue with the last update. While watching a recored show the lights on the front of the box go out and I lose my sound. This has happened about 5 times and so far only while watching a recored show and recording another. But, does not happen all the time just a few times. After I do a reboot the sound comes back.

I am using optical port for sound and HDMI for video. The first few time this happed I did check the HDMI audio and still no sound. 

Anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,
Ken


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

kdwebsol said:


> I am having a small issue with the last update. While watching a recored show the lights on the front of the box go out and I lose my sound. This has happened about 5 times and so far only while watching a recored show and recording another. But, does not happen all the time just a few times. After I do a reboot the sound comes back.
> 
> I am using optical port for sound and HDMI for video. The first few time this happed I did check the HDMI audio and still no sound.
> 
> ...


You might try reading through all the 3.63 audio problem threads.


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## kdwebsol (Jan 29, 2006)

kmcnamara said:


> You might try reading through all the 3.63 audio problem threads.


Thanks! I looked around and I missed this one.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

mchaney said:


> For those seeing lower signal strength, are the numbers just lower, or is the signal actually dropping? It is possible that Dish did something to the signal level calibration to make dish pointing more sensitive (to aid in better pointing) but it may not affect performance.
> 
> Mike


Unfortuntely, it's hard for me to answer this definitively since my dish was misaligned. Now that it's been retargeted, I'm getting much better signal stength across the board. When I get the lower readings, I don't get signal drops, but it's impossible to compare my current reception to my pre-3.63 reception because of the realignment.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

I have had a couple of problems with l363 deleting and adding local channels. After deleting and saving and OTA channel info. I go back in try an add the same channel and it fails to show any signal strenght. Then canceled and tried to look at another OTA channel and it was not displayed and machine went into a reboot. Reboot did not fix problem and so I power cord rebooted. 

Now ota channels were visible and could go into local channels and lock and add the channel. However after saving, I could not display the newly added channel. I went straight to a power cord reboot to fix.

Note I have been regularly trying adding and deleting this channel once a week in the hope that the Guide info for WCBS-DT will eventually show up. Only since l363 has this problem occurred.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

How many Timers do you have created tnsprin. There has been some issues with the locals configuration screen causing reboot when you have more than 50 timers if I recall.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> How many Timers do you have created tnsprin. There has been some issues with the locals configuration screen causing reboot when you have more than 50 timers if I recall.


This is occuring on both my 622's. The one has only 2 timers and 14 events.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well that rules out that bug.  Is this only happening with one channel tnsprin? is it only happening when you try and add WCBS-DT? Anything special about this channel in regards to your installation? 

How does your Dish 6000 handle it?


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## slowmo (Sep 22, 2006)

mchaney said:


> For those seeing lower signal strength, are the numbers just lower, or is the signal actually dropping? It is possible that Dish did something to the signal level calibration to make dish pointing more sensitive (to aid in better pointing) but it may not affect performance.
> 
> Mike


For me, it might just be the numbers.

My weaker transponders on 129 are limited to a handful of Voom channels that I watch infrequently. However, these channels do seem stable when I've checked recently - unlike the reception problems that I was experiencing with certain Voom channels until a tech re-aligned the setup prior to 3.63 upgrade.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Ron Barry said:


> Well that rules out that bug.  Is this only happening with one channel tnsprin? is it only happening when you try and add WCBS-DT? Anything special about this channel in regards to your installation?
> 
> How does your Dish 6000 handle it?


As far as what is special about wcbs-dt, Dish has been failing to map the guide to this channel (002-1 remap, 056-2 broadcast) for a year or more now. The 6000's and 921's remapped these channels until you rescanned your OTA and then it.

I've done a bunch of retests and this new problem appears to occur after adding or deleting any OTA channel. Sometimes the vip922 ends up reseting on its own. Sometimes it slows down and eventually shows all channels as black (forgot to check audio as I had the TV muted).


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

IMHO I think that perhaps some L351 code was added back to L363. Concerning the OTA channels, my receivers experienced greater problems to include resets when the stations had corrupted data mixed in the PSIP/Muxer until after L351 was replaced. More current software updates protected the receivers from locking up and or rebooting but there was never a provision made to allow for the native digital channel to map and work.


tnsprin said:


> I have had a couple of problems with l363 deleting and adding local channels. After deleting and saving and OTA channel info. I go back in try an add the same channel and it fails to show any signal strenght. Then canceled and tried to look at another OTA channel and it was not displayed and machine went into a reboot. Reboot did not fix problem and so I power cord rebooted.
> 
> Now ota channels were visible and could go into local channels and lock and add the channel. However after saving, I could not display the newly added channel. I went straight to a power cord reboot to fix.
> 
> Note I have been regularly trying adding and deleting this channel once a week in the hope that the Guide info for WCBS-DT will eventually show up. Only since l363 has this problem occurred.


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## Maxfli500 (Jun 24, 2005)

I have had Some audio drops, But my bigest concern is that I am seeing ever increasing pixelation (expecially on local non - OTA channels), last night on Desparate Housewives we had 10 minutes where it lost video sync 4 or 5 times. The 622 seems to be acting similar to how it was working prior to HDMI failure on the last 622. I had a few day of increasing Pixelation, and then the HDI crapped out all together. My replacment 622 has been running in a cool area, with great care mostly because I am afraid to even touch the thing.


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## vampirefish (Oct 19, 2004)

I received an email from Dish saything that the Dish on Demand tv entertainment would be enabled starting Sep 23rd. Naturally, I went to this feature but it's not available. I checked my version and see that I do indeed have the L3.63 version... anyone having the same issue? I'd really like to take advantage of this feature. I do power down every night...


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## embeleco (Oct 28, 2005)

My 622 got 3.63 a couple of days back and since then all my tp on 61.5 are very very low. I'm in Puerto Rico and here 61.5 is weak... before the 622 upgrade I was in the upper 40-70.. today I'm in the 30-50 in a very sunny day without any clouds.

Actually on my 811 I'm having 50-70 as well and I can see the voom channels although the image get frozen from time to time.. I'm using a 5 footer and looking for a 6 footer to fix that frozen thing but my 622 is unwatchable....... only 2-3 HD Channels are good... the rest are not working at all.. below the signal I was having before the upgrade and the ones I'm having now..and also the 811 as well.. Any ideas?
622 before the upgrade on 61.5:

tp 1 - 49
tp 2 - 72
tp 3 - 46
tp 5 - 47
tp 7 - 42
tp 9 - 50
tp 13 - 40
tp 17 - 41
tp 19 - 43
tp 20 - 59
tp 22 - 63

I know that in the low 40s are not going to work at all but now as of today my numbers are:

622 after 3.63 on 61.5

tp 1 - 43
tp 2 - 62
tp 3 - 30
tp 5 - 43
tp 7 - 32
tp 9 - 44
tp 13 - 30
tp 17 - 31
tp 19 - 30
tp 20 - 50
tp 22 - 50


811 signal as of today on 61.5

tp 1 - 54
tp 2 - 69
tp 3 - 49
tp 5 - 52
tp 7 - 50
tp 9 - 54
tp 13 - 47
tp 17 - 48
tp 19 - 48
tp 20 - 58
tp 22 - 62

I did a check switch and I power off and power up the 622 but I'm still having the same low signal numbers....

Is there something else wrong with 3.63?

-embeleco


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Run a check switch without the sat coaxes plugged in to clear the matrix. Then do a power cord reboot -leave it unplugged for 1 minute and then plug it back in. Then run a check switch with the sat cables plugged back in. This seemes to fix my problems on my 622. See if it helps you. If not then maybe your dish has moved?


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## embeleco (Oct 28, 2005)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Run a check switch without the sat coaxes plugged in to clear the matrix. Then do a power cord reboot -leave it unplugged for 1 minute and then plug it back in. Then run a check switch with the sat cables plugged back in. This seemes to fix my problems on my 622. See if it helps you. If not then maybe your dish has moved?


I'll try that today when I get home. I don't think the dish has moved because the signal levels on my 811 are good. I'll let you know tonight.

Thanks


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## jaymerkramer (Aug 25, 2006)

jaymerkramer said:


> Another update. Has been a couple of days since last reboot. This time no recordings going on. Receiver in dual mode. Watching Matrix on Tnt-HD, phone rang and right when the caller id popped up, receiver locked up solid. Had to do power button reset to get it back up.


Another bug report, this time OTA tuner was recording CSI Miami, tuner 1 was was working properly, tuner 2 on TV2 lost picture but still had sound. Tried watching some recordings back same problem on tv2. Put unit in to single mode, tuner 1 and OTA was still good, tuner 2 using PIP had same problem sound but no picture. After CSI was over did power button reset, all returned to normal, all recordings were there. Put back to dual mode all still working good. I never had a single issue before this update, now all hell has broken loose on my receiver. Hopefully the next patch corrects all this.


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## bairdjc (Sep 22, 2005)

wow not going to read through the entire thread but I noticed a few differences and figured it was new software so I came here......... and yep it';s new software.

Anyway I noticed 2 things:
1) the episode # and original air date for shows - for news programs it shows some odd, OLD date (e.g. my local nightly news it said some time in 1997).
2) NOW when in the program guide, if I type in a 3 digit channel # it will "skip" to that channel in the guide. before there would be a 2 or 3 second pause before it skipped to the channel in the guide. THEN, I was used to, say, pressing "1+6+8+ SELECT" to skip to 168 in the guide... doing that now automatically selects the channel.


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## HDlover (Jul 28, 2006)

Well, my wavy video is getting worse. Anyone else having this problem. Maybe it's my 622 going bad.


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## jaymerkramer (Aug 25, 2006)

bairdjc said:


> wow not going to read through the entire thread but I noticed a few differences and figured it was new software so I came here......... and yep it';s new software.
> 
> Anyway I noticed 2 things:
> 1) the episode # and original air date for shows - for news programs it shows some odd, OLD date (e.g. my local nightly news it said some time in 1997).
> 2) NOW when in the program guide, if I type in a 3 digit channel # it will "skip" to that channel in the guide. before there would be a 2 or 3 second pause before it skipped to the channel in the guide. THEN, I was used to, say, pressing "1+6+8+ SELECT" to skip to 168 in the guide... doing that now automatically selects the channel.


It looks like max hours you can skip ahead in the guide is now 99 hours. Putting in a 3 digit number selects the channel.


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

jaymerkramer said:


> It looks like max hours you can skip ahead in the guide is now 99 hours. Putting in a 3 digit number selects the channel.


I noticed that as well because I skip forward on the guide by typing in the number in hours all the time.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

lujan said:


> I noticed that as well because I skip forward on the guide by typing in the number in hours all the time.


I never even knew you could do this. Thanks! Sorry that they limited it, though.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

jaymerkramer said:


> It looks like max hours you can skip ahead in the guide is now 99 hours. Putting in a 3 digit number selects the channel.


I believe it was restricted to 99 hours for awhile. Certainly some of the other receivers have been so restricted.


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

L3.63 has messed up the trick play on both of my 622s. When I pause live content (SD or HD), then un-pause, the play-back resumes at a point at least 10-15 seconds prior to the pause point in the trick buffer.

The consistent audio drop outs, particularly on Sat locals is becoming really annoying and is making those contents practically unwatchable.

How long do we get to put up with this?


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## orenr (Jun 10, 2004)

I noticed the thing with the pause too, but I'm not sure it's a bug. They may have done it on purpose, so we wouldn't lose those few seconds around the time when we press pause.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

The pause live content has been report in the bug thread. Actually what happens is that if you hit Pause and wait a half minute and then hit pause again to unstop it will jump to live content. I think that is the bug AvJonnie is talking about or I can be wrong. 

If you saw Mark's post, I would expect the audio issue to be fixed as soon as they have a fix they feel addresses the issues. Based on Mark's post they are obviously aware of the issue and are actively working on the solution. 

Moving to the bug 3.63 bug thread


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

Ron Barry said:


> The pause live content has been report in the bug thread. Actually what happens is that if you hit Pause and wait a half minute and then hit pause again to unstop it will jump to live content. I think that is the bug AvJonnie is talking about or I can be wrong.


Actually Ron, I'm seeing what you describe in addition to what I described. What I'm getting, and would call a play-back buffer miss-queue, occurs after longer pauses of a couple of minutes or more. I did not notice this problem prior to L3.63. With L3.60 I did notice that on un-pause it would re-queue back perhaps a half-second or so, but now it moves back several seconds (10 or more) and I think it's rather annoying.



Ron Barry said:


> If you saw Mark's post, I would expect the audio issue to be fixed as soon as they have a fix they feel addresses the issues. Based on Mark's post they are obviously aware of the issue and are actively working on the solution.
> 
> Moving to the bug 3.63 bug thread


Sorry about that ending jab-line in my previous post (which I should have placed here to begin with, rather than launching a new thread.) It's just that I still have unpleasant memories from my 921 days...


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hmm have not seen that one Johnnie. I will have to give it a try tonight.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

So how did the Beta test go last night? Or does an NDA prevent anyone from discussing it?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I haven't heard anything today one way or the other, and I'm on a different version than what was tested last night, so I don't know.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Anyone other than me get the feature? I was disappointed to see that the content is only in SD!


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

Mark Lamutt said:


> I haven't heard anything today one way or the other, and I'm on a different version than what was tested last night, so I don't know.


That's too bad; I was interested in hearing the results (as I'm sure you were as well). I was too chicken to sign up for it myself on the night of the Heroes premiere. :lol:


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Yes, I now am showing Friday Night Lights on my 622 as well.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

boylehome said:


> Anyone other than me get the feature? I was disappointed to see that the content is only in SD!


I'm actually pleased to hear this, though I don't know if it will be the rule. I'd rather they reserve as much space as possible for user-recorded content rather than VOD.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

gsarjeant said:


> I'm actually pleased to hear this, though I don't know if it will be the rule. I'd rather they reserve as much space as possible for user-recorded content rather than VOD.


The space is already set aside for VOD, and you cannot use it for user content.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

cooldude919 said:


> The space is already set aside for VOD, and you cannot use it for user content.


Yes, I realize that. What I meant is that if they only intend to provide SD VOD content, then they don't need to set aside as much space for it as they would to store HD content. If it's a separate partition on a shared hard drive (which is my understanding), then the less space used for VOD, the more that remains for user content.

Of course, the more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that VOD will be SD-only.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

gsarjeant said:


> Yes, I realize that. What I meant is that if they only intend to provide SD VOD content, then they don't need to set aside as much space for it as they would to store HD content. If it's a separate partition on a shared hard drive (which is my understanding), then the less space used for VOD, the more that remains for user content.
> 
> Of course, the more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that VOD will be SD-only.


Yea i wish we could have that extra space also, but hell if they are going to set aside that much anyway, why not fill it with HD content  I personally wont watch the fridaynight lights until it airs(i will probably end up recording it since ill be at work). I paid good money for my HDTV and surround sound, so if waiting a bit means i can watch it in HD, then i see no reason to spoil it by watching the SD version


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

No, no, no. You guys don't get it. The VOD partition is a set, fixed size. Whether or not VOD content is HD will make absolutely no difference whatsoever to the amount of space you have available for recording. There is absolutely nothing dynamic about this setup. There is no "setting aside of space for VOD". That is already done, and not only will not be changed, it can't be changed without reformatting every hard drive in every 622 out there.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

We do get it, Mark. We're all just talking past each other, so I guess I'm being unclear.

I realize that VOD content resides on a separate, fixed partition. I also know that the size of that partition cannot change without repartitioning the drive, which is not something that one typically does via automatic nightly updates to who knows how many machines in the wild.

My assumption is that whenever the people at Dish determined what the fixed VOD allocation would be, they took into account the sort of content that would be stored on that partition. If they wanted to be able to store _n_ hours of SD VOD content, then they obviously would not have had to set aside as much space as they would if they had decided to store _n_ hours of HD content.

So, given all of that, we have roughly the following scenario:

Total hard drive space: 250 gig (?)
Space for VOD content: X gig (fixed)
Space for user recordings: Y gig (probably also fixed)
Space for system files/applications/logs: (250 - X - Y) gig

All I'm saying is that the smaller X (the VOD allocation) is, the larger Y (the user recording allocation) can be. The implication is that if they knew going in that VOD content would only be in SD, then they could have set aside a smaller partition than if it is also going to include HD content. This would result in more space leftover for user recordings than a partition designed to store HD VOD content.

My point is that given all this, if there were a theoretical choice between SD VOD with more user recording space and HD VOD with less user recording space, then my preference would be for SD VOD. Cooldude is simply saying that if they're going to reserve space for VOD content at all, then they may as well go all out and reserve enough space for HD VOD content. I think we both know that Dish has already made this decision and that it can not be changed.

I'm not asking for dynamic VOD allocation or anything else, really. My point was simply that if Dish is only going to provide SD VOD content, then it doesn't need as much space on the hard drive to store _n_ hours as would be necessary for HD content.

- Greg


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

Heh, i think gsarjeant explained it pretty well. I do of couse "get it" also, as he said, i was just saying, since the space is already there doing nothing, it would have been cool for friday night lights to be in HD, hell maybe NBC only sent it to them in SD, to make us wait to watch it in HD, who knows. Hopefully in the future we will get to see some HD VOD content. Ive accepted the fact its there and cannot be changed, but im just saying it would be a lot cooler(at least for me, hey maybe im spoiled with HD content) if the content was really in HD.

OR they could solve all this with external HDD expansion


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

OK. Just making sure, because there are a lot of people that really don't get it. 

And, actually, that was a very nice analysis, Greg, except the total HD space is 320GB. About 250GB of it is reserved for user recordings. 

And external HD expansion (at least external HD archival) is coming.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

Mark Lamutt said:


> OK. Just making sure, because there are a lot of people that really don't get it.
> 
> And, actually, that was a very nice analysis, Greg, except the total HD space is 320GB. About 250GB of it is reserved for user recordings.
> 
> And external HD expansion (at least external HD archival) is coming.


yes yes, we all know it is "comming", its just no one really knows when. We heard this fall on the chat thing, but who knows if thats true. It is also "comming" for the new tivo, and for Direct TV. Each of them have a usb, or esata, for "future use", but it all just depends on when that "future" is. There is no concrete date set for any of them


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Obviously there are a few other issues out there too (HDMI anyone? Video/Audio stutters/loss?). If the choice came down to fix a problem that many users see or add a new feature that a few might use it is not a hard choice. Now that the software side of HDMI is either fixed or eliminated (it is now a hardware issue) perhaps they can move on to new toys.

BTW: Winter begins December 21st? Plenty of time left in "Fall".


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

Mark Lamutt said:


> OK. Just making sure, because there are a lot of people that really don't get it.
> 
> And, actually, that was a very nice analysis, Greg, except the total HD space is 320GB. About 250GB of it is reserved for user recordings.
> 
> And external HD expansion (at least external HD archival) is coming.


Thanks, Mark. I hope I'm not prying too much. I just think it's a very cool device and I'm interested in/curious about how it works.



James Long said:


> If the choice came down to fix a problem that many users see or add a new feature that a few might use it is not a hard choice.


Absolutely.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

James Long said:


> Obviously there are a few other issues out there too (HDMI anyone? Video/Audio stutters/loss?). If the choice came down to fix a problem that many users see or add a new feature that a few might use it is not a hard choice. Now that the software side of HDMI is either fixed or eliminated (it is now a hardware issue) perhaps they can move on to new toys.
> 
> BTW: Winter begins December 21st? Plenty of time left in "Fall".


Yea, i certainly do agree with you. And i do hope that the estimate for fall is correct, as that would be nice to see. I do also hope that they are able to fix some of these major bugs(hdmi being #1), as that would fix problems for a lot of people. I am not saying that features should take advantage over bugs, but hopefully both can be taken care of in a timely manor


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Honestly I'm getting sort of jaded with these high definition DVRs and the number of problems they have. I'm not even talking about complex use cases, but just the act of watching live TV; even this doesn't seem to work correctly.

Are we saying that Dish is actually planning to fix bugs in the ViP622 instead of just abandoning it as they did with the 921? I certainly hope so; the fact that the approach chosen to "fix" 921 resource leaks was to force a reboot every night made me convulse, speaking as a software developer.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I agree on the reboot memory leak feeling Slordak with the 921. The 622 is no where near the 921, but based on threads I have recently it looks like the 921 has reach stability. As for fixing bugs. Well 3.63 defintiely took a step down, but if you look at the charts on the polls you will see that prior to 3.63 there was steady improvement release to release. 

And Yes based on the posts here, In my opinion dish is fixing and enhancing the user experience of the 622.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

Ron Barry said:


> In my opinion dish is fixing and enhancing the user experience of the 622.


I just wish they could enhance it without breaking it! I had a little stutter prior to 3.63 - nothing regular and not serious. Now I return home after being on vacation and all of my dvr recordings of the new series stuff (from HD Locals, not OTA) all have audio dropouts periodically throughout the recording and actual video dropouts (went to black screen twice for about a second, audio still playing and then video would return) on the premier of Heroes. Didn't have to reboot as the audio would only drop about 1/4 of a second and then come back and drop out again - this would go on for a minute or two and seemingly clear itself back up. Didn't see this problem with dvr recordings from SD stations only HD. Audio is connected to a Pioneer receiver via optical and video using hdmi straight to the tv. This is the first problem I've had with the 622 but it is really annoying!!!:nono2:

I posted this to the thread that is specifically for the audio problems as well even though that thread seems to be related to audio dropping out and staying out until system is rebooted.


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

One of the things I noticed is the episode # and original air date which I like but, after being gone for 10 days, I noticed that a lot of episodes that were recorded (with timers set for new) were not new. I know that some shows don't provide the 'flag' necessary to designate a show as not new but I saw it in particular with Mythbusters (some others, also, but this one really stood out). Their new 'flags' have always been pretty reliable but I came home to about 10 episodes and none were new (some were from 2002 and 2005)! Did Dish change the software that identifies new episodes when they added the episode # and original air date to the information?


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

This concerns my Version "E" ViP622 which has HDMI and Optical in use. 

This is a severe problem I will call Dish Net. ATS.

Yesterday, I placed this receiver into the single mode while demonstrating it's functions to a friend.

Today, I went into Check Switch after having swapped out DPP44 with a connector problem to satellite input 4. In the Check Switch screen I noticed that Both radio buttons for Super Dish and Alternate were highlighted (they never were before). I un-highlighted these options and began performed a Check Switch.

When the program began and the status window appeared, progress read 1 -50 for tuner one, and 1 - 1 for tuner 2 (which never changed). When it finished, it showed 119 for tuner 2 input 1 only. My other ViP622 sharing the same DPP44 successfully completed the Check Switch Process. The other two were in Dual mode.

I swapped inputs, cables and separators to the affected receiver, nothing changed, each attempt, it took longer for the process to complete. 

After forcing resets, a Check Switch process a trouble screen appears stating that there is a tuner problem and cabling, switching, etc. needs corrected for a successful Check Switch, then it goes directly into the Check Switch function.

On the fifth unsuccessful attempt at a Check Switch, rather than attempt another, I canceled out and changed the receiver mode to Dual Mode.

I then ran another Check Switch and it did a normal and successful procedure. 

This is repeatable and I suggest not running a check switch the Single Mode.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

boylehome - unplug both sat inputs from your 622, and run a checkswitch again to clear out the switch matrix. Then, unplug the power to your DPP44 switch to reboot it. Plug the switch back in, set your 622 to single mode, reconnect the sat inputs and then run the checkswitch again. It may take 2 times to get it right, but it should run correctly at that point.


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## boylehome (Jul 16, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> boylehome - unplug both sat inputs from your 622, and run a checkswitch again to clear out the switch matrix. Then, unplug the power to your DPP44 switch to reboot it. Plug the switch back in, set your 622 to single mode, reconnect the sat inputs and then run the checkswitch again. It may take 2 times to get it right, but it should run correctly at that point.


Mark, I had done this, it didn't help and in this case the extra procedures were unnecessary. Only by putting in Dual mode will it Check Switch correctly.

John


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## Banin (Jul 31, 2006)

I also woke up to an "your hard drive is corrupt and all data must be deleted" (paraphrased) message, but I rebooted the machine instead of pressing "delete all" and it came back with all my data and no more message.


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## bluestem (Sep 28, 2006)

Banin said:


> I also woke up to an "your hard drive is corrupt and all data must be deleted" (paraphrased) message, but I rebooted the machine instead of pressing "delete all" and it came back with all my data and no more message.


I had the same message this morning with basically the same results. I accepted my fate and did not try a re-boot but 'apparently' it was a false alarm. The 622 eventually did a re-boot (and perhaps other things) but it appears my recordings and timers are still intact. Here' hoping anyway!


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

I woke up this morning and was greeted with "Warning 760, The content on your hard drive has become corrupted." I never had this problem before 3.63.

So, Dish Programmers, thanks a lot for force-feeding your company's beta software onto my 622. I have lost about 100 hours of recordings because Dish did not properly test its software, nor did you ask for my permission to "upgrade" my 622 which was working fine before.

For all that use a PC -- Imagine if Windows discovered a corrupt file and said it was going to wipe the entire drive instead of deleting only the offending file. You'd be as pizzed as I am now!!!!


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

brettbolt said:


> Mark,
> 
> I woke up this morning and was greeted with "Warning 760, The content on your hard drive has become corrupted." I never had this problem before 3.63.
> 
> ...


Did you come here before deleting everything? The two posts just above yours reported the same problem. In both of those cases, rebooting the 622 cleared it up without having to delete anything.


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

gsarjeant said:


> Did you come here before deleting everything? The two posts just above yours reported the same problem. In both of those cases, rebooting the 622 cleared it up without having to delete anything.


Yes, thankfully I did come here before allowing it to wipe my drive. I let it sit at the screen so I could quote the wording of the message.

I assumed that it meant what it said - no choice but to delete everything. After I completed typing my post I reset the 622. The contents of the hard drive appear to have survived.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

brettbolt said:


> Yes, thankfully I did come here before allowing it to wipe my drive. I let it sit at the screen so I could copy the wording of the message.
> 
> I assumed that it meant what it said - no choice but to delete everything. After I completed typing my post I reset the 622. The contents of the hard drive appear to have survived.


phew! Glad to hear it. Sorry you had the momentary heart attack. That would have freaked me out, too. Hopefully this one will be cleared up soon. More people seem to be running into it.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

brettbolt said:


> I assumed that it meant what it said - no choice but to delete everything. After I completed typing my post I reset the 622. The contents of the hard drive appear to have survived.


So your statement "I have lost about 100 hours of recordings" is untrue? Or just the panic before realizing that a reset would be better than selecting "delete all"?

It is a bad message. I wonder what is tripping it. I'm sure that if it was seen in beta that the problem would have been fixed.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

brettbolt said:


> So, Mark, thanks a lot for force-feeding your company's beta software onto my 622.


Mark isn't an E* employee. Why attack him?


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## dbconsultant (Sep 13, 2005)

brettbolt said:


> Mark,
> 
> I woke up this morning and was greeted with "Warning 760, The content on your hard drive has become corrupted." I never had this problem before 3.63.
> 
> ...


I think you've mistaken Mark for the Dish exec that says, "Yeah, download that buggy software". Most of us are seeing issues that have existed with units that were working just fine prior to this download. I've been lucky enough to not see this scary message but I am experiencing the audio drop outs so this is the first place I came to find out if it was just my particular receiver or if it's a software release thing. Your frustration is understandable but should be directed at Dish as opposed to the people helping us here.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

kmcnamara said:


> Mark isn't an E* employee. Why attack him?


Exactly, Mark is working to try to fix things. He is the one that helped set it up the beta with users here and Dish, to try to find a fix as quickly as possible. We all understand your anger, as i am tired of these problems also(hell i just got the 622 2 weeks ago), but trying to blame people here will get you no where. This is a place for information and for people to help each other out


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> So your statement "I have lost about 100 hours of recordings" is untrue? Or just the panic before realizing that a reset would be better than selecting "delete all"?


It was panic. I assumed it meant what it said. Glad I came here first!


James Long said:


> It is a bad message. I wonder what is tripping it. I'm sure that if it was seen in beta that the problem would have been fixed.


I am a programmer myself. If it wasn't seen in beta testing then it 
1) Wasn't tested long enough
2) Wasn't tested by enough people
3) Wasn't tested in a sufficient number of units in the field.

It seems that we (customers) are the unwitting beta testers.

I feel strongly that new releases should always be on a voluntary basis for at least two weeks or so. Also, there should be a built in way for the customer to regress to the previous working version.


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

cooldude919 said:


> Exactly, Mark is working to try to fix things. He is the one that helped set it up the beta with users here and Dish, to try to find a fix as quickly as possible. We all understand your anger, as i am tired of these problems also(hell i just got the 622 2 weeks ago), but trying to blame people here will get you no where. This is a place for information and for people to help each other out


My bad. Sorry Mark, I thought you were a Dish employee in charge of beta testing.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

brettbolt said:


> It seems that we (customers) are the unwitting beta testers.


I feel this is true also. We all paid(and are paying) a premium for the 622. Seems to me we arent exactly getting premium sevice from dish. I am a new customer as of 2 weeks ago, and this whole .63 deal seems like we were the beta testers. I am unsure of the exacty reason it was rushed out without further testing( rush for the tv entertainment press release maybe?), but either way it is no fault of ours, yet we are paying the price. I do want to thank mark, and whoever at dish for setting up the beta, and trying to fix things quickly, but its just common sense that if this was done BEFOREHAND, then that would save everyone a lot of time and money.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

brettbolt said:


> I am a programmer myself. If it wasn't seen in beta testing then it
> 1) Wasn't tested long enough
> 2) Wasn't tested by enough people
> 3) Wasn't tested in a sufficient number of units in the field.


Which is easier to say when it is someone else's program and you don't know the numbers. 

For those who have not seen it (and hopefully never will) here is the message:







*Symptom*
Warning 760

*Cause*
This message appears when the content on the hard drive has errors.

*Prevention*
Turn the receiver off every night.

*Troubleshooting*
1. Press Select on the remote to delete all recorded content and correct errors. Once the receiver has finished, it will restart itself and display Attention 761. 
2. If the problem persists please contact us for additional assistance.









*Symptom*
Attention 761

*Cause*
This message appears when the content on the hard drive has errors.

*Prevention*
Turn the receiver off every night.

*Troubleshooting*
1. Press Select on the remote to continue. Attention 015 will now display. 
2. If the problem persists please contact us for additional assistance.

(Attention 015 is the acquiring satellite signal message.)​Personally, I would not follow the instructions either. (I'm down to my last 29hrs of space on my 622.)

(Screens from E* publically available Tech Portal - linked from DishNetwork.com .)


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> Which is easier to say when it is someone else's program and you don't know the numbers.


I do know the numbers. If the problem is reported here by several customers, then you can multiply that by thousands to get the actual number of people who experience this message. Only a small fraction of 622 owners see this thread.

There is no excuse for a widespread error like this which may result in complete data loss.



cooldude919 said:


> I feel this is true also. We all paid(and are paying) a premium for the 622. ... but its just common sense that if this was done BEFOREHAND, then that would save everyone a lot of time and money.


Yes, and I thank my 13 year old son who had the common sense not to press the "Delete All" button. He woke up before me and decided to wait until I saw the message before pressing delete.


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## gsarjeant (Sep 15, 2006)

Ok. The problem been reported a few times now and thankfully brettbolt and others here have managed to get around it without data loss. These things happen, and though it sucks when they do there's not a whole lot to be gained by slinging accusations and blame in either direction. Let's just try to go back to reporting when it happens, providing information and working towards a fix.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

We need to be careful about blaming specific groups within Dish too - not that anyone has done that but when the issue of "testing" comes up there's a tendency to blame the testers. Most of us probably agree that this release was not tested thoroughly enough (some of these problems are easily duplicatable so there simply wasn't enough regression testing to catch broken functionality that used to work). However, without knowing more, it would be inappropriate to blame the testers or the developers. It could very well be that a QA manager was waiving his/her arms and saying "No! It's not ready!" and a higher-up said "Ship it. We need to get the new functionality out there. Now." I've seen this happen before - it's all a part of the games people play with risk. They're basically taking a chance that there aren't any significant problems. It rarely turns out well.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

brettbolt said:


> I do know the numbers.


With all due respect, you don't. You don't know how long the release was tested, how many people were involved in the test or how many units the software was tested on (nor the location of those units). The opinion "not enough" isn't a number - it is just an opinion.

Which is why this thread and this support forum NEEDS to stay away from such useless negative comments. It doesn't help. The useful negative comment is that you received a confusing error message - and a few others have received the same message. What would make those comments even more useful would be to figure out WHY certain users are seeing those messages ... what is the difference between your receiver and others that see that message and the receivers/users that never see that message. Hint: Not everyone with L3.63 has received that message.

Lets work TOGETHER to see if we can figure that out ... and leave the beta bashing at home.

Thanks.


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

James Long said:


> Lets work TOGETHER to see if we can figure that out ... and leave the beta bashing at home.


On that note, I found out that I actually have L365, not L363 as I previously thought. So, I think the drive corruption happened when my 622 downloaded and/or installed L365.

Also, to be sure that DN is aware of this, I reported this directly to phone Tech Support.

Since this is a serious problem, I think everyone who has experienced it should call them and file a report. I think that will help this issue get more of the attention it deserves.


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

brettbolt said:


> On that note, I found out that I actually have L365, not L363 as I previously thought. So, I think the drive corruption happened when my 622 downloaded and/or installed L365.
> 
> Also, to be sure that DN is aware of this, I reported this directly to phone Tech Support.
> 
> Since this is a serious problem, I think everyone who has experienced it should call them and file a report. I think that will help this issue get more of the attention it deserves.


.65 just came out toinight, so it is impossible unless your error happened within the past few hours.


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## brettbolt (Feb 22, 2006)

cooldude919 said:


> .65 just came out toinight, so it is impossible unless your error happened within the past few hours.


Dude, it said L365 on the system information screen after I reset it. I have witnesses!


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## cooldude919 (Sep 21, 2006)

brettbolt said:


> Dude, it said L365 on the system information screen after I reset it. I have witnesses!


Ah ok, well i wasnt sure, because normally the new software doesnt spool until around ~6pm, and i wasnt sure what time the error happened for you


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## moman19 (Oct 22, 2004)

Forgive me if this is redundant, but I have no time to peruse 7 pages of bugs. 

I've had 363 for a few days now andwhat I'm seeing, especially on the SD TV2 side is a terrible studdering of the video similar to what the first releases on the 622 used to do. But unlike those releases, hitting the BACK button does not resolve the matter. The studdering is actually worse and much more frequent....perhaps more than once per second.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Have not heard that one moman.. but 3.65 is just spooling... Report it in the 3.65 thread if you see it under 3.65. 

3.63 is history.


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## SMosher (Jan 16, 2006)

I see 3.65 here as well. I hope it fixes the audio issue. Thanks E*


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Hopefully we all have L3.65 so closing down the thread.


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