# AMD or Intel



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

I am in the process of configuring a new pc for my sweetie. She currently has a 300mhz Presario and has finally given me okay to get her a new pc. I am planning on about $1500 including a 19" LCD because of her eyes getting old. She will use the pc for researching family tree and photo editing, movie editing and playing games, internet and email. No business use to speak of. Which is better for this type of use,, an AMD or Intel . Everything I have read shows the AMD has a lead in graphics while Intel rules with number crunching. You guys/gals have any thoughts ?


----------



## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I am a conservative type that wants lots of compatibility... I go with Intel processor and Intel motherboard every time. It is a few bucks more, but I have no compatibility issues.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

I have always run Intel but if AMD will run as well for cheaper,, I am not above shaving something off the above price. I am trying to build so I wont have to upgrade hers for 5 years or so  . She went through my latest pc gamer and was talking about how much fun Zelda would be. Her current pc just wont handle it.


----------



## JBKing (Mar 23, 2002)

Zelda on PC? I thought that was just on GameCube. 

I've always gone Intel, but picked up an AMD 800Mhz from the graveyard at work. After reformatting, I've been running it for several weeks now and haven't had a bit of trouble. But I don't think she is playing games on it, so it's not like we're actually testing it extensively.

Unless it comes free, I'm willing to pay a little extra to get Intel. They didn't get to be #1 by luck.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

I didnt notice,, she was just looking at the article. I think she would enjoy about any of the new games,, all she does now is play collapse. I bought her survivor game a year ago and it wouldnt play. I am sure the standard Presario video card is not much more than a 32mb card.


----------



## HappyGoLucky (Jan 11, 2004)

Redster said:


> I didnt notice,, she was just looking at the article. I think she would enjoy about any of the new games,, all she does now is play collapse. I bought her survivor game a year ago and it wouldnt play. I am sure the standard Presario video card is not much more than a 32mb card.


The latest AMD processors are much more advanced than comparable ones from Intel. Intel is now playing catch up to AMD instead of the reverse. The AMD Athlon 64 processors have much advanced number crunching abilities and regularly perform faster than their Intel counterparts in business software benchmarks. The Athlon FX is also an excellent processor that is cheaper than its Intel rival.

Both the Intel Pentium 4s and AMD Athlons will give you excellent performance, so I would concentrate more on the other peripherals and the price. If getting the AMD processor allows you more money for a bigger/faster hard drive, etc., then that is what I would get.

Look at http://www.pricewatch.com for some good deals.


----------



## marko (Jan 9, 2003)

I always try to get the most value for my money, and since that is the case, I go with AMD. But then again, I build my own computers, so that comes into play. (when you say configuring, I assume you mean purchasing one from dell/gateway, etc). If you are purchasing a computer, I would go with the brand you feel comfortable with, whether that be dell/hp/gateway (not IBM desktops), etc. That will usually dictate the CPU choices.


----------



## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

A few weeks ago I picked up a new 3.0 Ghz system with a Intel CPU (with HyperThreading) I am actually not impressed with it. 

I was looking at AMD but their naming scheme was too damn confusing and I decided against it because I wasnt sure what I was getting or even looking at. 

They should just keep it easy, Pentium 2, 3 , 4, 5 etc...


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

This is what I have with AMD, the Intel 2.8ghz is about the same price.

Athlon 64 Configurator 
*BASE_PRICE: [+524]

CAS: ATX MEDIUM TOWER CASE 350 WATT [+0] (SILVER COLOR [+0])

CDRW: SONY DW-U18A DUAL FORMAT 8X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE [+60] (SILVER COLOR [+9])

CPU: (754-pin) AMD ATHLON64 3200+ Processor [+68]

FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 6in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer [+0] (BEIGE COLOR)

FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK + 3 EXTRA CASE FANS [+9]

HDD: Seagate 80GB 7200RPM Serial ATA 150 8MB Cache [+10]

KEYBOARD: PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD [+0] (SILVER COLOR [+3]) 
MOUSE: PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL [+0] (Special!!! BEIGE COLOR MICROSOFT USB INTELLIMOUSE)

MOTHERBOARD: (754-pin Socket) MSI K8T Neo FSR VIA K8T800 Chipset AGP8X w/LAN,USB2, &Audio [+10]

MEMORY: 512 MB PC3200 400MHz DDR MEMORY [+0] (Standard Major Brand)

MONITOR: ViewSonic® Q190MB 19" ACTIVE MATRIX TFT LCD MONITOR MAX:1280x1024 Pixels [+551]

NVIDIA_GAMES: Battlefield 1942 WW [+0]

NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD [+0]

OS: NONE - FORMAT HARD DRIVE ONLY [+0]

POWERSUPPLY: THERMALTAKE 480WATT POWER SUPPLY [+79] (SILVER COLOR)

SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME

SOUND: Creative Labs SB LIVE VALUE 5.1 [+30]

SPEAKERS: (BLACK)"NEW" Creative Labs SBS 560 5.1 Surround Subwoofer Speaker System [+69]

VIDEO: nVidia GeForce FX 5700 256MB 8x AGP w/ TVO, & DVI [+62]

_PRICE: (+1484)


----------



## HappyGoLucky (Jan 11, 2004)

Redster said:


> This is what I have with AMD, the Intel 2.8ghz is about the same price.


That's a nice system, and for the same money I would go with the AMD. That processor would be significantly faster than the 2.8 P4.


----------



## HappyGoLucky (Jan 11, 2004)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> A few weeks ago I picked up a new 3.0 Ghz system with a Intel CPU (with HyperThreading) I am actually not impressed with it.
> 
> I was looking at AMD but their naming scheme was too damn confusing and I decided against it because I wasnt sure what I was getting or even looking at.
> 
> They should just keep it easy, Pentium 2, 3 , 4, 5 etc...


Intel is now getting out of the GHz naming, also. When looking at an AMD processor, the +XXXX number is what that processor would compare to in the Intel line, typically a P4. So an Athlon 64 +3200 would be comparable in performance to an Intel P4 3.2GHz. They do that because the actual clock speed of the AMD processor is slower than 3.2GHz, but because the AMDs are more efficient, even though clock-wise it is slower, it outperforms the Intel.

Intels new naming scheme is very confusing as the number now has no relation to the clock speed or any other indication of the relative performance, except that as the number increases you can guess that the performance increases. In reality, the P4 540 is a 3.2GHz processor.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

marko said:


> I always try to get the most value for my money, and since that is the case, I go with AMD. But then again, I build my own computers, so that comes into play. (when you say configuring, I assume you mean purchasing one from dell/gateway, etc). If you are purchasing a computer, I would go with the brand you feel comfortable with, whether that be dell/hp/gateway (not IBM desktops), etc. That will usually dictate the CPU choices.


Actually I have 2 sites:

www.ibuypower.com and www.cyberpowersystem.com both of them have pretty good configuration tools with lots of options. The prices are somewhat compatible with what you or I would pay from say pricewatch.com


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

well, its been ordered,, too late to change now. I went with AMD.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

You'll be fine with AMD - among everything else I do, I'm also a Microsoft OEM Sytem Builder, and use AMD exclusively. I've NEVER had a compatibility or reliability problem with them.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Its gonna take about a week for them to set it up. I will let you know if I get hugs or the frypan when she gets it. I will still have to load (a legal copy) of XP Pro on it but then she can play and tell me what of her other stuff she wants. It should be quite a drastic improvement , her old 66mhz disk is about 95% full and slower than dog doo in the winter. And of course its a surprise, no special occasion other than I think she needs it.


----------



## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

Dell has the PowerEdge 400SC "server" for $324 shipped w/ a 2.8GHz P4, 256 megs of memory, and a 80GB drive. Toss in another $100 for some aftermarket memory and $50 for XP had you have a great system for under $500. Then you can spend $500 on a great large LCD screen and still have enough to get something for yourself.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Their standard setup was pretty good but being a geek, I wanted to get something that wouldnt be completely outdated in a couple years. I got the SATA drive for the main reason that it is chainable and doesnt require expensive raid cards, 256mb video to handle any game and the motherboard which is easily overclocked will handle any AMD processor out there. I did go overboard on the monitor but again ,, with her eyes she can push it back farther on the desk and not strain to see. All in all, I did a lot of checking around and the price is pretty darn good. If I built myself I probably would have gone more overboard,, those new NVIDIA cards look awful sweeeeet. Her system is actually faster than my older 2 gig .  I upgrade next


----------



## MarkB49 (Jan 22, 2003)

Up until recently all these computers were based on 32 bit.That's both Intel & AMD.
AMD actually takes the lead with 64 bit systems.
My local clone store www.ginstar.com (They do have 4 locations here in metro atlanta)
has the following systems:
AMD Athlon 64 3000 799.99

Intel 3.0 GHZ 759.99.
Both of these are basic Top systems.You pick the Monitor and OS.But this is the first time that i have Ever seen an AMD product at a higher price
than Intel! Ginstar does have the AMD XP-3000 at 629.99.
I did just run a price from them 900 to 1000 is the price i'm looking at.

In the next year or so i will upgrade my entire system.AMD is now in the running.

To you pro's
How big a deal is going from 32 to 64 bit.
It's almost like it happened and nobody noticed.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

MarkB49: Your AMD/Intel comparison is apples (64-bit AMD) vs. oranges (32-bit Intel).

64-bit is still quite new - no applications released for it yet AFAIK.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

_"I always try to get the most value for my money"_

This is especially true in the winter months when your AMD can actually lower your electric heat bill by $20/month. 

Just joking- Actually, seriously I have the 1.3Ghz AMD laptop with inadequate cooling fans and it is so bottom hot you can't use it as a laptop. To be fair, I also have several Compaq and HP laptops with P4's 2.4Ghz and 3.3 Ghz. They get equally hot but the difference is these babies have extra fans and stay cooler. Could be said that some Laptops are just better HVAC design.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

I'm typing this on an Intel P-3 866MHz laptop that actually fried it's own fan (and no replacement available). I now use a laptop fan-stand that I added weatherstripping to to make a duct to the CPU heatsink (cover removed). Looks like crap but works great. CPU temp is normally around 35c. Used to run close to 50c.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

AMD's do run hotter,, the main reason I ordered 3 extra case fans to go in her new tower. I dont think she will be impressed with the window/fancy case but she will love the monitor.


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

When I ordered my computer (Compaq Presario 8000), I specifically wanted an Intel processor, if I would have went with the Athlon 64 3200 I could have saved a few hundred dollars, but I have never had no issues with Intel processors so I ordered my computer with a P4 HT 3.20 GHz processor. I have been extremely happy with the performance of Intel processors, nothing against AMD, though. The actual CPU itself cost me $530, that was the most expensive component, my 17" LCD monitor was second $450 after rebate.


----------



## onegojoe (Jul 8, 2004)

I have always used AMD. They are a little less expensive, but they give same or better performance as Intel. I build my own systems and have had a few AMD stock cpu fans go bad and AMD has always replaced them without a hassle.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Seriously, The only claims I have heard about "superiority of the P4 over AMD was in render times for video processing. Never was able to verify the claim but I have never had any issues other than heat with the AMD. Additionally, the only PC's I have owned in the past that failed due to the Processor was AMD. I have had two now that went TU. I have sone P4 and one P3 and one PII that has been serving here for equal or much longer time and never fail. Strange about the AMD failure rate. For these reasons, I also specifically "buy Intel" now.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Well, I've also heard of AMD heat failure problems - but never with a properly installed, AMD-approved heat sink and fan.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

The AMD specs call for the motherboard to monitor the internal chip temperature and to have some way to shut down the system should it get too hot. 

Also, on both Intel and AMD motherboards, there is a sensor which detects the fam speed and shut down the system if the fan fails.


----------



## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

My AMD system had all the proper temperature sensing stuff. The desktop tower case actually had an oversized power supply due to 4 drives installed and extra fans besides the humongous heat sink and dual fans. I suppose that system was a failure after 2 years because it never shut down. I run all but 3 computers in my Lan office 24-7. The Laptop was an HP. I assume it had adequalt cooling but you never know. It was used intermittantly and did get very hot. Today, my new laptops are all P4 systems, get hot but use 2 and 3 fans to stay within a laptop reason.

The AMD tower case system was a mystery as to failure. It was replaced with a 3.3Ghz Vaio last April. One thing is definite- I cannot ever claim that AMD is incompatible.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Well hopefully with the certified heatsink / fan plus case with 5 fans total. She wont have an issue.


----------



## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

I would suggest that you also check the fans and heatsink on a monthly basis for an accumulation of dust. With that constant flow of air, dust will start accumulating after a while. Once it starts, it will quickly add up. Even a little accumulation of dust will affect overall performance. For heatsinks, it will block airflow and act like an insulator for heat. For fans, it will diminish airflow. Go down to your local office supply store and buy a can of compressed air. Blow out fans, heatsinks, PSU, and also check RAM for accumulation. Also don't forget to check the front panel for dust bunnies around the vents. I just blew out my system over the weekend and had several bunnies the size of golfballs fall out.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

I got plenty of air,, I do the same thing at work. The warehouse pc's are continually overheating from the buildup of dust.


----------



## firephoto (Sep 12, 2002)

A little note about the Athlon 64.
There's some motherboards out there that take a lot of power on the 12v side from the power supply, upwards of 25 amps in some instances so for anyone considering one make sure it has a good power supply, and that doesn't just mean a high wattage rating. I've seen 450 watt supplies that can only do 19 amps @ 12v when a 325-350 watt supply of a better brand will put out 28-30 amps @ 12volts. Any good retailer will show the amp ratings in the specs and there's a sticker on them that will show it also.

If anyone goes AMD for a system they build themselves you can't go wrong with getting a "retail" processor that comes with the HSF (heatsink/fan) and it's usually less than $10 more. I've haven't had any problems with stock heatsinks and they'll work with a little overclocking if you have good air flow. Good airflow isn't just lots of fans either, you need to move the air in a sensible path thru your case. For my case fans I have two blowing in, two blowing out counting the psu fan (out). This also creates a tiny postive pressure inside the case due to the psu restriction so it keeps most of the dust out of the cd/dvd drives and the drive area in general.

If you run linux or want to test it out, most of the big distros have a 64bit version so you can take full advantage of an AMD 64.

If I was buying a laptop it would be a hard choice between AMD64 and a Pentium M. If they made a Thinkpad with an Athlon there would be no decision to make.


----------



## Redster (Jan 14, 2004)

Well, the new toy arrived yesterday and got XP SP2 up and running last night. She has been playing all day and now has Toby Keith "Who's your Daddy" blasting away behind me. She loves the 19" LCD though it didnt come with a DVI cable,, just an adapter for the pc side,, still shows analog signal,, guess I will have to pick one up. She does notice a drastic improvement in disk speed with the SATA drive. So far so good,, she is all smiles and that makes it worth it.


----------



## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

I'd never buy a computer with an Intel processor. They're slower and more expensive. They're technologically outdated and they're the one's with compatibility issues. My grandma just bought a new computer with a Celeron D (Prescott core) and can't run Service Pack 2 (it just won't startup - search for Prescott Service Pack 2). She's returning it to the store to get an AMD based system. The manufacturer's tech support refuses to acknowledge that the BIOS isn't loading production level microcode and from what I can tell they're never going to fix it


----------



## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

MarkA said:


> I'd never buy a computer with an Intel processor. They're slower and more expensive. They're technologically outdated and they're the one's with compatibility issues. My grandma just bought a new computer with a Celeron D (Prescott core) and can't run Service Pack 2 (it just won't startup - search for Prescott Service Pack 2). She's returning it to the store to get an AMD based system. The manufacturer's tech support refuses to acknowledge that the BIOS isn't loading production level microcode and from what I can tell they're never going to fix it


This sounds like a motherboard problem not a processor problem. I bet if she had an Intel motherboard with an Intel processor she would not have had a single problem.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

I agree it's probably a MB problem. If ya wanna pay the premium for pure Intel, that's fine, but there's LOTS of other GOOD MB choices for both processor types.


----------



## MikeSoltis (Aug 1, 2003)

I personally have had good luck with both Asus and Gigabyte mobos.
At my old job, we spent the bucks on a 'genuine Intel' server board, and it wasn't worth the extra money.
I've been running Pentiums for awhile, but will probably 'jump ship' and go to the Athlon 64 if I don't go for the *G5*!!

Remember with all things PC, much as many things in life, ymmw.


----------



## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

"This sounds like a motherboard problem not a processor problem. I bet if she had an Intel motherboard with an Intel processor she would not have had a single problem."

Nope, it's a well acknowledged processor problem that Intel blames on the motherboard. The processor has an issue which causes it not to work without a boot time microcode update supplied by the BIOS when the computer is running service pack 2. Intel blames it on the BIOS not supplying the microcode update. I blame it on Intel not supplying a working processor out of the box! I've never heard of a shipping AMD REQUIRING a boot time microcode update to even start the computer!


----------



## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

MarkA said:


> I'd never buy a computer with an Intel processor. They're slower and more expensive. They're technologically outdated and they're the one's with compatibility issues. My grandma just bought a new computer with a Celeron D (Prescott core) and can't run Service Pack 2 (it just won't startup - search for Prescott Service Pack 2). She's returning it to the store to get an AMD based system. The manufacturer's tech support refuses to acknowledge that the BIOS isn't loading production level microcode and from what I can tell they're never going to fix it


What make and model of motherboard? In fact what make and model of PC? This is the first "production" PC we're come across with the problem - all others until now have been homebuilds. I'm the person who first identified the problem:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555185&Product=winxp
and
http://forum.aumha.org/viewtopic.php?t=7447


----------



## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

Make and model of the motherboard:
First International Computer VC37GV

Make and model of the PC:
eMachines (First International Computer distributer in reality) C-2881 (Costco model)

Thanks for any help you can provide CoriBright! Though I think she'll end up returning the computer and having me doing a homebuild.


----------

