# MLB begins working to reduce TV blackouts



## Steve615

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-blackouts040608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

According to the link above,MLB will redraw its territorial rights map,and that the new blackout rulings could go into effect beginning with the 2009 season.If this happens,it appears they are trying to get this done to coincide with the launch of The Baseball Channel next season.


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## Earl Bonovich

They should have 1 map...

Covers all of teh viewing area...

Blackouts are no longer "helping" anything... it is turning away viewers... but not driving anyone to the stadiums.

Ask the Chicago Blackhawks how good that "theory" works.


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## spunkyvision

I think it sucks for all sports. I have never understood it and never will. If I want to PAY for it I should get it. I am not asking for anything free.
When I first got directv (mid 90s) I had three local baseball teams (LA, Anaheim and San Diego) they finally changed that but unfortunately now the Padres are on Cox so I don't get any (or very few) games on Directv


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## RAD

I had signed up for MLB-EI/SF so I could see the Cubs in HD. However due to blackout rules and D*'s not carrying WGN Superstation a number of games so far I'd have to watch in SD, so I cancelled EI. I'll reevaluate next year after they say what the new rules are going to be.


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## Randal Graves

The Cardinals, Braves, and Reds are my local teams on FSN South/SportSouth. If I lose the Cardinals I'll be unhappy to say the least. I'm not blacked out of any games I want to watch.


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## n3ntj

Earl Bonovich said:


> They should have 1 map...
> 
> Covers all of teh viewing area...
> 
> Blackouts are no longer "helping" anything... it is turning away viewers... but not driving anyone to the stadiums.
> 
> Ask the Chicago Blackhawks how good that "theory" works.


I agree 100% with you, Earl. I say 1 viewing area for all the league.

Let's see how MLB does with their re-map. Sometimes tells me it will still not be fan-friendly.


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## Randal Graves

The article says it may not even happen in 2009.


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## scott72

RAD said:


> I had signed up for MLB-EI/SF so I could see the Cubs in HD. However due to blackout rules and D*'s not carrying WGN Superstation a number of games so far I'd have to watch in SD, so I cancelled EI. I'll reevaluate next year after they say what the new rules are going to be.


How do you cancel EI? I was under the understanding that no refunds were allowed?


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## RAD

scott72 said:


> How do you cancel EI? I was under the understanding that no refunds were allowed?


I cancelled before the season started.

I checked the Cubs broadcast schedule and saw what channels were carrying the 1st weeks games. Knew I wouldn't see the WGN games with the Brewers in HD since it didn't look like FSN WI would have it. Knew the CSN Chicago games with Astros would be blacked out since I'm in the FSN Houston RSN area and they didn't show them in HD. Figured if that's how it was starting out why get locked into paying for the entire year.


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## dstout

probably explains why the Reds are now on FSN South/SportSouth now.


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## wilbur_the_goose

And what channel are the Phillies on?

MLB just doesn't get it, do they?


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## Msguy

They need to get All Fox Saturday Games on the MLB Extra Innings Package and any game that is on Saturday that isn't on Fox needs to be included. As It stands I will miss many Cubs Saturday games this season because the Cubs have alot more games scheduled for Comcast Sportsnet Chicago on Saturdays this year. And the Cubs play most of there home games during the day and Fox has the exclusive Saturday Afternoon broadcasts. Which I have been 100% Against Since Fox signed there new agreement with MLB. Blackouts must be eliminated all together in my opinion. The Territories that some teams claim is ridiculous. Atlanta being able to claim Territory all the way into Memphis for one example is totally absurd. All Fox Saturday Games need to be included in the MLB Extra Innings Package. There is no reason why these games should not be available. Local Channels losing revenue should be no excuse when fans are paying for this package to see the teams they expect to see.


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## loowaters

Earl Bonovich said:


> They should have 1 map...
> 
> Covers all of teh viewing area...
> 
> Blackouts are no longer "helping" anything... it is turning away viewers... but not driving anyone to the stadiums.
> 
> Ask the Chicago Blackhawks how good that "theory" works.


Amen.

I think I've got six teams claiming Iowa as their territory. White Sox, Cubs, Twins, Brewers, Cards, and Royals (I think). Amazing.


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## Randal Graves

I'm willing to bet that if/when it's changed, the people who wanted it will be satisfied; but the people(such as myself) who have no blackout problems and presently watch exactly the team(s) they want to will get screwed over by the changes.


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## highheater

A common sense solution is that for a MLB team to claim an area as its territory it has to have a local broadcasting agreement to show its games in that area.

It makes no sense for the Twins to claim Iowa if no Twins games are ever available OTA or through a sports channel to in-market viewers of the area.

Part of the problem may lie in the assignment of the local sports channels by Direct TV or local cable provider.

For example, currently in Indianapolis, the Cubs, White Sox, and Reds are considered in market (with Fox Cincy and Comcast Chicago but no WGN provided in the basic package). But Comcast provides only Fox Cincy.

Assigning territories based on availabilty would be not only determined by zip code but be provider dependant. And that could get complicated very quickly.

In the above example, the MLB EI package for Direct TV would black out Cubs, Reds,and White Sox since those stations would be available in a basic package from Direct TV.

But the same MLB EI package for Comcast would only black out Reds games since the White Sox and Cubs were not available in a basic package from Comcast.

The point - the common sense solution of blacking out games only when availalbe locally is complicated when SAT and CABLE providers make the choice of what to incluude in their basic package. 

Consequently it is left up to the MLB teams to make this definition - with bad reprucussions to the fans.

The Twins can claim Iowa thinking their games should be locally covered but such thinking has little effect on what SAT and cable providers choose to do.


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## highheater

RAD said:


> I had signed up for MLB-EI/SF so I could see the Cubs in HD. However due to blackout rules and D*'s not carrying WGN Superstation a number of games so far I'd have to watch in SD, so I cancelled EI.


Other than the blackouts - the lack of WGN in HD - remains one of the last black holes of baseball viewing given all the improvements this spring.

Cubs are considered an in-market team in Indianapolis but I'm not local enough to get WGN HD as a local channel. Consequently I'm stuck ponying up more money to get the plus package to even get WGN in the first place. All on top of what I pay for MLB EI.

An additional outlay just to get what MLB considers my local teams. And then not even in HD quality after pony up more money for that fee.

As I said, the lack of WGN HD is a black hole that sucks up every resource you throw at it and returns nothing.


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## n3ntj

loowaters said:


> Amen.
> 
> I think I've got six teams claiming Iowa as their territory. White Sox, Cubs, Twins, Brewers, Cards, and Royals (I think). Amazing.


Aren't the Red Sox, Marlins, and Dodgers also claiming Iowa? :lol:

The remapping of team territories is long overdue.

Does this have to do with games only or also non-game RSN programming (like Yankeeography)?


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## dstout

Randal,

If you are currently getting the games thru DBS or cable, I can't see MLB taking them away from you.

Las Vegas gets FSN West, Prime Ticket, and the Padres don't they on cable? I think the Dbacks used to have some OTA games on TV. I could see the Bay Area teams losing their claim on Vegas.


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## Msguy

Saturday Afternoon Games Not being able to be seen is the Black Hole. Most people are off work on the Weekends and that is the only time they might get to see a game and Fox has the exclusive window for broadcast. The Fox Deal should be changed to non-exclusive and All Fox Saturday Games should be included into the MLB Extra Innings Package. It makes Zero Sense to me why these games and other RSN games cannot be available. At one time we could not view Wednesday night games because ESPN had Exclusive broadcast rights but even that got changed. The Fox Games should be changed as well. There should be no reason why Fox games can't be added. And as for remapping the MLB broadcast territories. That should be simple. Every MLB City should be able to claim no more than a 75 mile broadcast radius. Anything beyond that should be out of market and Games should be in the clear for all viewers. Plain and Simple.


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## Randal Graves

dstout said:


> Randal,
> 
> If you are currently getting the games thru DBS or cable, I can't see MLB taking them away from you.


So, it's basically if a team doesn't show games on a sports channel or OTA network in part of their territory, they lose that part? I'm ok with that.


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## Msguy

Randal Graves said:


> So, it's basically if a team doesn't show games on a sports channel or OTA network in part of their territory, they lose that part? I'm ok with that.


That should be part of the deal. Fans that live in areas where teams do not broadcast every game are shut out from seeing games because of blackouts due to there home team not televising that day/or night. Another Solution to this problem would be to force every team to broadcast every game whether on there home sports network or over the air. How about just eliminating blackouts for MLB Extra Innings all together and making available All Over The Air Contests and Fox Saturday games? Wouldn't that be much more simpler? A Fan who is Blacked out from any baseball game due to a Territory Restriction is simply Outdated this day in time with Satellite Television and Cable. The Territory Map was created back when most people received television through Rabbit Ears.


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## 10david2

My problem is that Direct TV has different "home" teams than other TV providers. How can they legally do this and tell me that I'm blacked out by my teams RSNs as well as EI? They want it both ways.


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## J. Black

FWIW: It seems that KC Royals games are no longer blacked out by E* here in Des Moines, IA.


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## jerseyreef

Msguy said:


> That should be part of the deal. Fans that live in areas where teams do not broadcast every game are shut out from seeing games because of blackouts due to there home team not televising that day/or night. Another Solution to this problem would be to force every team to broadcast every game whether on there home sports network or over the air. How about just eliminating blackouts for MLB Extra Innings all together and making available All Over The Air Contests and Fox Saturday games? Wouldn't that be much more simpler? A Fan who is Blacked out from any baseball game due to a Territory Restriction is simply Outdated this day in time with Satellite Television and Cable. The Territory Map was created back when most people received television through Rabbit Ears.


I completly agree. If a viewer is willing to pay the money on MLB EI, they should be able to watch every single game being broadcasted, no matter where they live or how it's broadcasted or by whom.

Isn't this same for NFL Sunday Ticket?


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## highheater

Msguy said:


> Saturday Afternoon Games Not being able to be seen is the Black Hole.


Yes, Saturday afternoons are THE black hole. But that can't be corrected by Direct tV. Broadcasting WGN HD is something they could do to help the situation. Especially given the roll-out of HD for just about everything else.

I'd like to know if the MLB EI broadcast of games on WGN are in HD. That would be especially galling. Everyone else in the nation gets HD. True locals get HD. MLB designated 'locals' who don't get WGN-HD as a local channel are left out in the cold.


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## Msguy

highheater said:


> Yes, Saturday afternoons are THE black hole. But that can't be corrected by Direct tV. Broadcasting WGN HD is something they could do to help the situation. Especially given the roll-out of HD for just about everything else.
> 
> I'd like to know if the MLB EI broadcast of games on WGN are in HD. That would be especially galling. Everyone else in the nation gets HD. True locals get HD. MLB designated 'locals' who don't get WGN-HD as a local channel are left out in the cold.


WGN Baseball telecasts are not part of MLB Extra Innings. They never have been. WGN is Channel 307 on DirecTv and it's just there as part of the Total Choice Package and anyone can get WGN and no Cubs or White Sox games are ever blacked out from WGN. The only people who can receive WGN HD are people who live in the Chicago Market who can receive WGN Local (Not The Superstation). It would be nice if DirecTv could get WGN Superstation in HD. That would really be great for People all around the country who subscribe to DirecTv for Cubs and Or White Sox games.


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## RAD

Msguy said:


> It would be nice if DirecTv could get WGN Superstation in HD. That would really be great for People all around the country who subscribe to DirecTv for Cubs and Or White Sox games.


Yep, e-mail D* and ask them to add WGN Superstation HD, the more that let them know we want it maybe they'll add it.


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## ShawnDHill

I agree with msguy was saying in regards to the broadcast territories. To me, a team's broadcast territory should be its own immediate television market and maybe a neighborhing market. Anything beyond that should be fair game, and those outer markets should get every game as they paid for, blackout-free.

I've always thought the exclusion of Fox's Saturday afternoon telecasts were (and still is) absurd. If I'm shelling out nearly $200 a year to see a package of games, I want to see that every televised game is available, regardless of the source.


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## Msguy

RAD said:


> Yep, e-mail D* and ask them to add WGN Superstation HD, the more that let them know we want it maybe they'll add it.


I just sent off an e-mail to DirecTv asking if there are any plans to add WGN HD to DirecTv. It said there e-mail response team would try to e-mail a response within' 24 hours. Everyone who wants to see WGN HD needs to send in there E-mails. It would be nice if we had WGN HD for baseball this summer.


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## Randal Graves

ShawnDHill said:


> I agree with msguy was saying in regards to the broadcast territories. To me, a team's broadcast territory should be its own immediate television market and maybe a neighborhing market. Anything beyond that should be fair game, and those outer markets should get every game as they paid for, blackout-free.


How would that work for people who watch the team on their FSN or Comcast Sportsnet channel and don't buy EI? It don't seem like they'd get games on those channels if it were the way you said.


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## Msguy

Randal Graves said:


> How would that work for people who watch the team on their FSN or Comcast Sportsnet channel and don't buy EI? It don't seem like they'd get games on those channels if it were the way you said.


They would have to pony up for the MLB Extra Innings Package Just the way everyone else does if they want to see baseball. MLB Extra Innings Should be an all or nothing Package. All Games should be made available Some Kind of Way.


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## DCSholtis

What they SHOULD do with the FOX Saturday Afternoon games is let FOX have their 3 games during their window but make the other teams play on Saturday night. There should be no Saturday afternoon games outside of the FOX exclusive ones that way the blackout situation wouldn't be so bad.


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## reweiss

DCSholtis said:


> What they SHOULD do with the FOX Saturday Afternoon games is let FOX have their 3 games during their window but make the other teams play on Saturday night. There should be no Saturday afternoon games outside of the FOX exclusive ones that way the blackout situation wouldn't be so bad.


Better yet. Move the few games on Fox Saturday to the evening so the rest of the teams can draw the fans Saturday afternoon. Then there will be no blackouts for the 1pm EST and 4pm EST games.


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## Msguy

reweiss said:


> Better yet. Move the few games on Fox Saturday to the evening so the rest of the teams can draw the fans Saturday afternoon. Then there will be no blackouts for the 1pm EST and 4pm EST games.


The Fox Saturday Games are very fan unfriendly for all baseball viewers. #1 we are forced to watch the 1 game that only our Local Fox Affiliate shows. #2 if there is an out of market game going on in another part of the country MLB Extra Innings Subscribers are blacked out from being able to see that particular game or games if they so choose. I just wish Fox would either #1 Budge and restructure there deal to allow for all other games to be seen on MLB Extra Innings or #2 at the Very Least Allow there other Regional Fox Games to be allowed on MLB Extra Innings here in the United States so if there is another game you are interested in you can tune in to that one instead of watching the Game your Own Local Fox Station is showing. Why Can't they have it like NFL Sunday Ticket? Show all out of Market Games and have the Game being shown on your local affiliate Blacked out but if you want to watch it you can just tune in to it on your Local Fox Station. As Each Passing Baseball Season Goes by and as I get a year older I find myself asking Why is baseball taking so long to get this Blackout situation straightend out? MLB Extra Innings is a great Package even with more feeds available this year, but the package could be so much better if they would Add Fox Saturday Games and Allow all games available on the package blackout free.


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## reweiss

Msguy said:


> The Fox Saturday Games are very fan unfriendly for all baseball viewers. #1 we are forced to watch the 1 game that only our Local Fox Affiliate shows. #2 if there is an out of market game going on in another part of the country MLB Extra Innings Subscribers are blacked out from being able to see that particular game or games if they so choose. I just wish Fox would either #1 Budge and restructure there deal to allow for all other games to be seen on MLB Extra Innings or #2 at the Very Least Allow there other Regional Fox Games to be allowed on MLB Extra Innings here in the United States so if there is another game you are interested in you can tune in to that one instead of watching the Game your Own Local Fox Station is showing. Why Can't they have it like NFL Sunday Ticket? Show all out of Market Games and have the Game being shown on your local affiliate Blacked out but if you want to watch it you can just tune in to it on your Local Fox Station. As Each Passing Baseball Season Goes by and as I get a year older I find myself asking Why is baseball taking so long to get this Blackout situation straightend out? MLB Extra Innings is a great Package even with more feeds available this year, but the package could be so much better if they would Add Fox Saturday Games and Allow all games available on the package blackout free.


Maybe MLB EI is on steroids


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## ShawnDHill

Randal Graves said:


> How would that work for people who watch the team on their FSN or Comcast Sportsnet channel and don't buy EI? It don't seem like they'd get games on those channels if it were the way you said.


Randal, msguy pretty much answered your question for me...I was speaking only in terms of the Extra Innings package. If your local FSN, CSN, or other regional sports network is already broadcasting certain games into your area, then fine. Like msguy said, Extra Innings should be an all or nothing package.

Let's hope that MLB can make these broadcast territories with a lot more of sense. It's just dumb to live in an area claimed by a certain team, and that team's games aren't available locally (either through OTA or cable, or even radio), and you're blacked out on Extra Innings. It's one thing to protect your territorial rights, but it's another when you can't make those games available to your fans.


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## Lord Vader

Msguy said:


> The only people who can receive WGN HD are people who live in the Chicago Market who can receive WGN Local (Not The Superstation).


No such animal presently exists. WGN Chicago (Channel 9 here) presently does not broadcast yet in HD. The exception is that a few CW broadcasts are HD.


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## Lord Vader

Msguy said:


> I just sent off an e-mail to DirecTv asking if there are any plans to add WGN HD to DirecTv. It said there e-mail response team would try to e-mail a response within' 24 hours. Everyone who wants to see WGN HD needs to send in there E-mails. It would be nice if we had WGN HD for baseball this summer.


According to my friend who works at WGN, he said not to expect it before the end of the year. I hope this isn't true.


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## mince

You know I have a pretty good handle on the blackout issues and understand why they happen ($$$$$) but the one that really gets me is Phillies non-Sunday night games on ESPN/ESPN2 are blacked out in PA ENTIRELY except for metro Pittsburgh. I have just the opposite situation of most folks, I can't watch the Phillies for "free" on ESPN but I CAN PAY to watch them on MLB EI or MLB.TV. Go figure.


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## dstout

> Supposedly, Common Sense and For Love of the Game are up and throwing in the bullpen. Yahoo Sports reported this week that at next month's owners meetings, all 30 teams are expected to "deliver reports outlining the territories in which they currently broadcast games or have concrete plans to in the future." Supposedly, MLB will redraw its territorial rights maps based on these reports.
> 
> What that means is anybody's guess. Mine is that if the Giants and the A's do not offer TV games in Las Vegas, theirs would not be blacked out on pay-per-view. But that's only a guess. And last year, it would have been wrong.


http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/apr/10/ron-kantowski-feels-hes-black-hole-ballgames-are-i/


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## n3ntj

mince said:


> You know I have a pretty good handle on the blackout issues and understand why they happen ($$$$$) but the one that really gets me is Phillies non-Sunday night games on ESPN/ESPN2 are blacked out in PA ENTIRELY except for metro Pittsburgh. I have just the opposite situation of most folks, I can't watch the Phillies for "free" on ESPN but I CAN PAY to watch them on MLB EI or MLB.TV. Go figure.


I'm in PA, but can't recall ever seeing a Phillies play a Sunday night game. Guess I'll have to pay more attention and see if ESPN is blacked out here. If ESPN has the exclusive rights to Sunday night games (starting after 7pm), how can it be blacked out. The purpose of a blackout is to protect the local channel carrying the game. CSN Philly would not be carrying a Sunday night 8pm game, so why black it out (even in center city Philly)?


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## CUDAHY

Last Saturdays games were all blacked out on Directvs EI, but were available on MLB.tv. I thought the same rules applied to both. Why the discrepancy?


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## colavsfaninnwia

J. Black said:


> FWIW: It seems that KC Royals games are no longer blacked out by E* here in Des Moines, IA.


Yup, the Royals always claimed Iowa. Its just that the Royals Sports TV Network (RSTN) wouldnt broadcast much into Iowa. But FSN Midwest (Kansas City) bought the rights to air Royals games this year, and lets the entire Royals area get to see the games.


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## Msguy

colavsfaninnwia said:


> Yup, the Royals always claimed Iowa. Its just that the Royals Sports TV Network (RSTN) wouldnt broadcast much into Iowa. But FSN Midwest (Kansas City) bought the rights to air Royals games this year, and lets the entire Royals area get to see the games.


That is the way it should be. A Teams entire broadcast area should be able to see the game on an RSN or an over the air channel all throughout the teams broadcast territory. These blackouts and games not being available need to go.


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## n3ntj

colavsfaninnwia said:


> Yup, the Royals always claimed Iowa. Its just that the Royals Sports TV Network (RSTN) wouldnt broadcast much into Iowa. But FSN Midwest (Kansas City) bought the rights to air Royals games this year, and lets the entire Royals area get to see the games.


Not that anyone would want to watch RSTN. It was super Blurr-o-vision anyway. Thank God for FSN Midwest HD.


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## Shad

colavsfaninnwia said:


> Yup, the Royals always claimed Iowa. Its just that the Royals Sports TV Network (RSTN) wouldnt broadcast much into Iowa. But FSN Midwest (Kansas City) bought the rights to air Royals games this year, and lets the entire Royals area get to see the games.


Except Arkansas and Oklahoma, which remain blacked out despite being inside Royals territory.


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## lucky13

CUDAHY said:


> Last Saturdays games were all blacked out on Directvs EI, but were available on MLB.tv. I thought the same rules applied to both. Why the discrepancy?


Same this week. Only blackout is for the broadcast of your local team.

This is a change from previous years. I guess MLB's contract with Fox allows baseball to carve out an exemption for itself. I'm even getting both Fox games on the computer.

So if MLB is going to show the Saturday games, to sell more mlb.com subscriptions, I think you can forget about seeing the blackout lifted for Extra Innings (much as I'd like that).


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## Lord Vader

You know, I'd even be willing to pay a few extra bucks--20 or 30 or so--as an E.I. subscriber to be able to SEE the blacked out games.


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## Msguy

Lord Vader said:


> You know, I'd even be willing to pay a few extra bucks--20 or 30 or so--as an E.I. subscriber to be able to SEE the blacked out games.


I would NOT be willing to pay more to see the games. I feel we already are paying enough money to see this package. I feel all games should be made available just as the way NFL Sunday Ticket Games are. If you receive a game on your Local Fox Affiliate then I wouldn't mind that particular game being blacked out on MLB Extra Innings. You Could just watch that game on your local Fox Station. But All other games out of market should be available through MLB Extra Innings. It should be an All Games Or Nothing Package. Emphasis on ALL games being made available.


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## scott72

Msguy said:


> I would NOT be willing to pay more to see the games. I feel we already are paying enough money to see this package. I feel all games should be made available just as the way NFL Sunday Ticket Games are. If you receive a game on your Local Fox Affiliate then I wouldn't mind that particular game being blacked out on MLB Extra Innings. You Could just watch that game on your local Fox Station. But All other games out of market should be available through MLB Extra Innings. It should be an All Games Or Nothing Package. Emphasis on ALL games being made available.


Exactly. I'll be damned if I would pay one red cent more for blacked out games. Isn't 250 bucks enough already? I've already got a p'd off wife for subbing to EI to get Brewer games even though I'm in their dang territory.


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## mince

I'm so sick of MLB and their Blackouts. I live in the Indians and Pirates territory (Zip 16727) and I for the life of me don't understand why the Mets/Phillies were blacked out on Wednesday on ESPN2 and now today the Cubs/Phillies is blacked out on TBS. I'm trying my best not to swear but this is just %&*! incredible. Absolutlely no one can explain this blackout with the Phillies in my area, MLB won't release details due to propietary info, D* CSR's only know what there script tells them but boy are they quick to point out I could watch the game if I subscribe to MLB EI, oh and according to MLB.TV's website if I subscribe to their package the game would be available. I love baseball, but right now they can kiss my you know what. Sorry for the rant, going to go listen to the Cubs/Phillies on XM.


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## Msguy

mince said:


> I'm so sick of MLB and their Blackouts. I live in the Indians and Pirates territory (Zip 16727) and I for the life of me don't understand why the Mets/Phillies were blacked out on Wednesday on ESPN2 and now today the Cubs/Phillies is blacked out on TBS. I'm trying my best not to swear but this is just %&*! incredible. Absolutlely no one can explain this blackout with the Phillies in my area, MLB won't release details due to propietary info, D* CSR's only know what there script tells them but boy are they quick to point out I could watch the game if I subscribe to MLB EI, oh and according to MLB.TV's website if I subscribe to their package the game would be available. I love baseball, but right now they can kiss my you know what. Sorry for the rant, going to go listen to the Cubs/Phillies on XM.


If you live in Indians and Pirates Territory, then you should not be blacked out from a Phillies and Cubs Matchup. The only solution for these problems like this is for MLB to eliminate it's more than ridiculous blackout policy. These Blackouts hurt fans who cannot watch games. And another thing. This is a Major screwup because These Sunday MLB Games that are supposed to be on TBS are supposed to be Non Exclusive. That Game SHOULD be available everywhere in the Country. Someone is Royally Screwing your area with this one.


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## colavsfaninnwia

Now the other day I saw where both FSN Kansas City (Midwest) and FSN North were both airing the game, and the Kansas City feed was blacked out???


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## scott72

colavsfaninnwia said:


> Now the other day I saw where both FSN Kansas City (Midwest) and FSN North were both airing the game, and the Kansas City feed was blacked out???


thats because the FSN North RSN takes precedence over FSN KC in your area. Same thing happens to me when the Brewers play the Cubs. I am forced to watch it on WGN or Comcast Chicago vs FSN Wisconsin.


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## StuartK

Earl Bonovich said:


> They should have 1 map...
> 
> Covers all of teh viewing area...
> 
> Blackouts are no longer "helping" anything... it is turning away viewers... but not driving anyone to the stadiums.
> 
> Ask the Chicago Blackhawks how good that "theory" works.


With the exception of the BlackHawks and NFL the blackouts haven't had anything to do with the gate for quite some time. Right now it is about protecting the financial interest of teams and television outlets via the sports channel contracts. The Comcast Sportsnet value would be lessoned if people in the Chicago region could bypass Comcast Sportsnet and watch the game through any source. The feeling is advertisers would be less willing pay as much if they did not have an exclusive to the area. The problem is some areas don't carry the sports team on cable in the territory that the team is carrying. I live in Indianapolis and I don't think any of the cable companies here carry the Sox and Cubs on Comcast Sportsnet. I do get those games in marked on DirecTV, but the vast majority of people in Indy that subscribe to a video source are shut out if the game airs on MLB-TV or cable. I think Baseball is seeing the light now since their service MLB-TV is being hurt by their own blackout rules. The Reds are blacked out in Alabama and North Carolina. I think if this is corrected the Reds will be blacked out in Indy because they are shown on Fox Sports Indy, but the Reds will be seen in North Carolina and Alabama. We will see.


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## Msguy

StuartK said:


> With the exception of the BlackHawks and NFL the blackouts haven't had anything to do with the gate for quite some time. Right now it is about protecting the financial interest of teams and television outlets via the sports channel contracts. The Comcast Sportsnet value would be lessoned if people in the Chicago region could bypass Comcast Sportsnet and watch the game through any source. The feeling is advertisers would be less willing pay as much if they did not have an exclusive to the area. The problem is some areas don't carry the sports team on cable in the territory that the team is carrying. I live in Indianapolis and I don't think any of the cable companies here carry the Sox and Cubs on Comcast Sportsnet. I do get those games in marked on DirecTV, but the vast majority of people in Indy that subscribe to a video source are shut out if the game airs on MLB-TV or cable. I think Baseball is seeing the light now since their service MLB-TV is being hurt by their own blackout rules. The Reds are blacked out in Alabama and North Carolina. I think if this is corrected the Reds will be blacked out in Indy because they are shown on Fox Sports Indy, but the Reds will be seen in North Carolina and Alabama. We will see.


It's Funny you brought up the Reds. I live in Reds Territory in Mississippi (The Northeast Part of the State) The Territory I live in is Reds and Braves. The Reds Do Not broadcast every game and I am always blacked out from the other teams feed even if the Reds are not broadcasting. What I would like to see remedied at the very least is this. If the team in your home territory does NOT broadcast a game then they should allow paying customers who subscribe to MLB Extra Innings All those customers in that area be allowed to see the game blackout free from the other teams Sports Channel or FSN Channel. Is that to much to ask for? I feel every game should be available. But i'd take getting the other teams feed if the Reds don't choose to broadcast that particular day/night. That would be better than just completely leaving fans in the dark without a game to watch. That leaves another question. WHY are there still some teams like Cincinnati refusing to broadcast every game? Other teams broadcast every game to there home territory unless they appear on Fox or ESPN Sunday Night. Why are there still some teams that refuse to broadcast every game? It makes no sense. If every team would just broadcast every game the problem would immediately be remedied and blackouts could remain. You would have to just watch your local teams on your Regional RSN and all out of Market Games could then be seen on MLB Extra Innings.


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## J. Black

colavsfaninnwia said:


> Yup, the Royals always claimed Iowa. Its just that the Royals Sports TV Network (RSTN) wouldnt broadcast much into Iowa. But FSN Midwest (Kansas City) bought the rights to air Royals games this year, and lets the entire Royals area get to see the games.


I'm still noticing blackout problems here in IA with Royals games. Tonight's game with Seattle is blacked out to me by E* but tomorrow afternoon's game is not.

Mediacom here in Des Moines shows Royals games on nights like tonight when telecasts of Kansas City baseball games do not conflict with St. Louis games. For some strange reason E* is blacking out Royals games in situations like this.


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## colavsfaninnwia

I dont have E* anymore... Thankfully my parents are taking over the rest of my contract for it... So I only see the games on weekends when I visit... I have the cable co now. :sigh:


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## brucegrr

I think the total number of games being broadcast from Cincinnati 638/638-1 is 141 games. Not all........but getting pretty close. Almost 1/2 of them will be in HD.

Does anyone know how many of the RSN's are broadcasting ALL the games this year?

I agree that ALL the games is what I prefer (as a MLB EI subscriber) but this year is the best it ever has been for baseball on TV.


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## mince

Check this out....As you've seen in my previous post I live in the Indians TV territory. Last night Red Sox/Indians was on ESPN and Sportstime Ohio, ESPN should've been blacked out, watch the game on STO. Nah....both STO and ESPN were lit up???? So I live in the Indians territory in PA, can watch the Indians on ESPN or STO, but I can't watch the Phillies on ESPN????? Come on MLB pull your heads out of where the sun doesn't shine. BTW had a conversation with a rep from TBS questioning why the Cubs/Phillies was blacked out in my area...She said because MLB wants to sell EI and MLB.TV subscription so MLB got rid of the 100 mile rule....hmmm interesting.


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## scott72

mince said:


> ...She said because MLB wants to sell EI and MLB.TV subscription so MLB got rid of the 100 mile rule....hmmm interesting.


Not surprised at all. I knew something shady was going on when I'm sitting right in the middle of the Brewer's market, yet I have to buy EI to see any of their games. Ripping people off is their specialty.


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## boiker

too add to this blackout craziness, I've been unable to view RSN games on saturday via EI because of FOXs exclusivisity.


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## mikewolf13

Earl Bonovich said:


> They should have 1 map...
> 
> Covers all of teh viewing area...
> 
> Blackouts are no longer "helping" anything... it is turning away viewers... but not driving anyone to the stadiums.
> 
> Ask the Chicago Blackhawks how good that "theory" works.


The other irony is that most teams make more money from TV/radio than they do from ticket sales anyway.


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## Msguy

I will believe that MLB is working to reduce blackouts when I actually see games not blacked out and Fox Saturday games and Saturday afternoon Non Fox games available. I'll believe it when I see it. Baseball historically lives in the stone ages when it comes to hurrying any changes along. MLB moves at a snails pace.


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## colavsfaninnwia

What I hate is when I have no local broadcast of my MLB team (which happens to be about 240 miles away) the game is still blackout on the MLB EI...

But what I do love is because my cable co puts the NHL games on the same channels as the MLB games, the rest of the MLB games are still in "free preview." I am assuming the actual free preview of MLB EI is officially over..??


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## mince

The insanity continues......Cubs & Phillies on TBS a few Sunday's ago...Blacked out.
Yankees @ Indians this Sunday on TBS....not blacked out. I live in the Indians territory, game should've been blacked out or the Cubs/Phillies game shouldn't have been blacked out.


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## tvjay

mince said:


> The insanity continues......Cubs & Phillies on TBS a few Sunday's ago...Blacked out.
> Yankees @ Indians this Sunday on TBS....not blacked out. I live in the Indians territory, game should've been blacked out or the Cubs/Phillies game shouldn't have been blacked out.


I was blacked out of in the Indians game on TBS and I am in Indians territory.


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## mince

tvjay said:


> I was blacked out of in the Indians game on TBS and I am in Indians territory.


I really am beginning to think that the ESPN and TBS blackouts are based on state and not team territories.


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## Randal Graves

tvjay said:


> I was blacked out of in the Indians game on TBS and I am in Indians territory.


Were the Indians also broadcast on a local channel that day? If yes, the blackout was correct. If not, TBS shouldn't have been blacked out.


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## Steve615

With the upcoming launch of the MLB Network ( 1/09 ),I thought it was time to give this thread a bump.


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## n3ntj

Should be interesting to see what MLB comes up with for the start of the 2009 season since they were "working" on reworking the TV blackout issue. I hope Bob DuPay does a good job and really fixes this problem. I would hope MLB would be similar to what the NHL does.


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## Msguy

Every MLB game should be available next year. MLB should force each team to claim a legitimate "Home" Territory. No Team should be able to claim "Home Broadcast Territory" more than 100 miles past the city from where that team originates from. That would be a simple solution. Sort of the way the NFL use to have a 75 mile from the stadium blackout rule.


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## Randal Graves

n3ntj said:


> Should be interesting to see what MLB comes up with for the start of the 2009 season since they were "working" on reworking the TV blackout issue. I hope Bob DuPay does a good job and really fixes this problem. *I would hope MLB would be similar to what the NHL does*.


How's that exactly?



Msguy said:


> Every MLB game should be available next year. MLB should force each team to claim a legitimate "Home" Territory. No Team should be able to claim "Home Broadcast Territory" more than 100 miles past the city from where that team originates from. That would be a simple solution. Sort of the way the NFL use to have a 75 mile from the stadium blackout rule.


If they did that, how would it be determined what teams are shown on FSN and Comcast SportsNet in other areas.

Example: Memphis is more than 100 miles from St. Louis. Would the Cardinals still be broadcast on FSN South in Memphis and the surrounding areas? The Braves are way more than 100 miles away, what about them? With your idea, it seems some places wouldn't get baseball on a RSN at all.

RSNs don't even do blackouts, anyway, mileage or attendance.


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## Msguy

I've typed these next few words so many times it isn't even funny. Baseball should eliminate ALL Blackouts. The Blackout rules of today were formed like in the 1950's. It's time to end them once and for all. Every team should be broadcasting every game this day in time and anyone who subscribes to MLB Extra Innings should get every game made available even the FOX Saturday Games should be made available to the package.


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## Ken S

Msguy said:


> I've typed these next few words so many times it isn't even funny. Baseball should eliminate ALL Blackouts. The Blackout rules of today were formed like in the 1950's. It's time to end them once and for all. Every team should be broadcasting every game this day in time and anyone who subscribes to MLB Extra Innings should get every game made available even the FOX Saturday Games should be made available to the package.


Okay, why should they do it? They're a business to maximize revenue. Fox pays more for exclusivity. The MLB EI package is a pittance compared to their local TV deals and home attendance.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like it, but it's not likely to happen no matter how many times you or I click our heels and wish for it. There has to be a solid financial reason for them to do it...out of market fans watching out of market commercials isn't going to sell the argument.


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## Msguy

Ken S said:


> Okay, why should they do it? They're a business to maximize revenue. Fox pays more for exclusivity. The MLB EI package is a pittance compared to their local TV deals and home attendance.
> 
> I'm not saying I wouldn't like it, but it's not likely to happen no matter how many times you or I click our heels and wish for it. There has to be a solid financial reason for them to do it...out of market fans watching out of market commercials isn't going to sell the argument.


They should allow all the games for the fans who pay to watch their product. But that is ok. I have posted alot about all the MLB games being available. I've posted for a long time now more than 3 years. I'm a baseball fan and I would love to be able to choose any game any time there is one. I'm a Cubs Fan even though they continue to lose in the playoffs. I can't receive every Cubs game every time they are on FOX. I'm a MLB Extra Innings Customer and i just feel i should be able to see every game without a blackout restriction or a Territorial restriction due to FOX broadcasting some other game that i'm not interested in on my Local FOX Channel. This is Fine. I give up my fight. We the Fans aren't going to win this one. The next time baseball has a strike and loses alot of fans i'll become just like what the NBA made me feel like recently. I'll probably lose interest in baseball and i probably won't order the package anymore. Baseball is fan unfriendly on that issue of Blackouts and fans not being able to see other FOX Saturday Games.


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## TheRatPatrol

Ken S said:


> Okay, why should they do it? They're a business to maximize revenue. Fox pays more for exclusivity. The MLB EI package is a pittance compared to their local TV deals and home attendance.


I don't mind them having exclusivity, but do it for one national game, not 2 or 3 regional ones. The way it is now you're stuck with the game on your local Fox station and can not watch the other games being broadcast by Fox outside of your area.

Just imagine if the NFL did this with their CBS and Fox games on Sundays.


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## txtommy

Msguy said:


> They should allow all the games for the fans who pay to watch their product. But that is ok. I have posted alot about all the MLB games being available. I've posted for a long time now more than 3 years. I'm a baseball fan and I would love to be able to choose any game any time there is one. I'm a Cubs Fan even though they continue to lose in the playoffs. I can't receive every Cubs game every time they are on FOX. I'm a MLB Extra Innings Customer and i just feel i should be able to see every game without a blackout restriction or a Territorial restriction due to FOX broadcasting some other game that i'm not interested in on my Local FOX Channel. This is Fine. I give up my fight. We the Fans aren't going to win this one. The next time baseball has a strike and loses alot of fans i'll become just like what the NBA made me feel like recently. I'll probably lose interest in baseball and i probably won't order the package anymore. Baseball is fan unfriendly on that issue of Blackouts and fans not being able to see other FOX Saturday Games.


I'm also a Cubs fan who hates it when Fox carries the game. We either get a blackout or have to put up with the horrendous Fox announcers. I usually watch with the sound off. They outdid themselves during the WS this year by making the commercial breaks longer than the playtime. By the time they finished showing their several minutes of commercials I had usually forgotten who was next at bat. They took what could have been interesting games and destroyed any continuity. I imagine it also affected the players having to stand around for a few extra minutes waiting for the 'play ball' call from FOX TV rather than from the umpires. MLB says they are concerned with speeding up play but then allows an extra couple minutes between each half inning. It's getting to the point where what used to be a 2 1/2 hour game now takes 4 hours on Fox.


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## Msguy

It is time to bump this topic up. The winter meetings are soon and they should be announcing something more about the blackout situation. I expect that some teams territories should be be reduced and even some territories changed. I have been keeping a very close watch on this topic and I hope MLB and Bob Dupay come up with something better for the fans. We Need as many MLB games to get on the MLB Package as possible and they seriously need to reduce blackouts and make more games available.


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## boiker

Msguy said:


> It is time to bump this topic up. The winter meetings are soon and they should be announcing something more about the blackout situation. I expect that some teams territories should be be reduced and even some territories changed. I have been keeping a very close watch on this topic and I hope MLB and Bob Dupay come up with something better for the fans. We Need as many MLB games to get on the MLB Package as possible and they seriously need to reduce blackouts and make more games available.


More than blackout issues, they need to modify the Fox saturday blackout rules for EI subscribers--this is especially frustrating for us on the west coast when at 10 AM on a saturday I can't watch an east cost or CDT game BEFORE my local Fox Saturday game starts.


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## n3ntj

Yep.. we are paying extra for MLB EI and who gets the money? MLB and D*. They need to work with FOX on getting the out of market Saturday games (before 7pm) available to those of us who pay extra for this feature. I can't imagine FOX would allow their contract to be modified right now, though.


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## Steve615

According to the following article,any further discussions of changing the blackout policies are on hold until the next owners meeting,in January.

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2637:blackout-policy-to-remain-through-mlb-network-launch&catid=26:editorial


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## Msguy

When January comes around we'll probably be told we'll have to wait until 2010 before they will meet on the blackout policy. More wasted time. :nono: Baseball should end all blackouts.


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## Steve615

From bizofbaseball.com:
Here is an article titled *Restructuring of MLB Blackout Policy Becoming More Remote*,dated 2/5/09.

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2929:restructuring-of-mlb-blackout-policy-becoming-more-remote&catid=48:ei-mlb-network&Itemid=82

It appears to me that if any blackout rules are changed,they won't be happening anytime soon.
I hope that I'm wrong,but it appears obvious to me that the owners keep "putting it on the back burner",so to say. 
:nono2:


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## Randal Graves

As long as I don't lose the ability to watch the Cardinals on cable, I don't care what they change.

If the changes result in that I can't watch the Cardinals anymore, then I'd be angry about it.


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