# eSATA cartridge/cradle unit



## Ryan (Apr 24, 2002)

While these things are not unknown, I previously only saw them for sale from some overseas company that charged some really expensive international freight rate.

This is the first I've seen them in the country:

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=22660

It could make adding (and swapping) expansion drives quite simple:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think I saw something like that on engadget. I'm not sure what the benefit is over a conventional enclosure.


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## Kil4Thril (Apr 13, 2008)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think I saw something like that on engadget. I'm not sure what the benefit is over a conventional enclosure.


Maybe for a computer geek who has a half-dozen drives sitting around unused, it would be cheaper than purchasing a large, new drive.


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## Ryan (Apr 24, 2002)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think I saw something like that on engadget. I'm not sure what the benefit is over a conventional enclosure.


Yeah, I guess the need it fits is if you need to swap drives.


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

Don't even want to hear what my wife would say if I put that next to the DVR in the living room.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

You can get it cheap at Microcenter for $28.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> You can get it cheap at Microcenter for $28.


Thats not *e*SATA capable.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think I saw something like that on engadget. I'm not sure what the benefit is over a conventional enclosure.


For this purpose, none -- and it isn't eSata anyway (as I see someone has pointed out).

But having something like that can be handy for PC purposes to quickly connect/swap drives for testing, backup or the like.


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## Ryan (Apr 24, 2002)

The one I posted is esata;

Maybe I should have posted this in the CE forum? I thought people might want to be able to swap drives between software versions...

But then again, a $40 dock that doesn't require unscrewing covers, screwing in drives, screwing it all back together might be useful for folks outside of the CE world too.


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## markbox (Apr 12, 2008)

I've been using a similar setup on my DirectTiVo for years.
It's not pretty but it works and makes drive swaps very 
easy.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

Ryan said:


> While these things are not unknown, I previously only saw them for sale from some overseas company that charged some really expensive international freight rate.
> 
> This is the first I've seen them in the country:
> 
> ...


OK, I'll admit it - the geek in me finds that really cool.


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

MountainMan10 said:


> Don't even want to hear what my wife would say if I put that next to the DVR in the living room.


I don't think I'd want it next to my DVR in the living room.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Well, second one will be good for Dish users who have many EHD.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Ryan said:


> The one I posted is esata;
> 
> Maybe I should have posted this in the CE forum? I thought people might want to be able to swap drives between software versions...


Sorry -- didn't notice that the one linked to was eSata.

Could be useful for those wanting to swap drives in/out ... but the HR2x software isn't stored on the drive, so it has no use for swapping versions.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HighVoltage said:


> Thats not *e*SATA capable.


Let me see how I can make eSATA connector by myself...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

The company sell other model with both interfaces USB 2.0 and eSATA (3Gb).


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Let me see how I can make eSATA connector by myself...


There are converters available but they run ~30.00 USD. The problem then becomes USB2.0s 60MB/sec bottleneck as compared to eSATA 300MB/sec...


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> The company sell other model with both interfaces USB 2.0 and eSATA (3Gb).


Short of eBay, there doesnt seem to be a North American distributor.

I like the idea and the overall design look. I would prefer aluminum to plastic though...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HighVoltage said:


> There are converters available but they run ~30.00 USD. The problem then becomes USB2.0s 60MB/sec bottleneck as compared to eSATA 300MB/sec...


Sorry, but you don't have the number right; check for start eSATA info at sata-io.org.









The box doesn't require a converter for $30, it just missed eSATA connector; after I'll find it and solder, we will talk.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Anyone know of something like this for IDE drives?

I have a bunch of old drives I'd love to use.


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

Now wouldn't it be cool if your could plug one into the HR2x system and then daisy chain two or three more on up the line and make it look like one drive without all the software configuration problem and partitioning.

Now we are talking "Joe Hiccup" compatibility.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Sorry, but you don't have the number right; check for start eSATA info at sata-io.org.


I said MB/sec (MBps) not Mb/sec (Mbps). The Serial reference in that diagram only reports the stats for 1.5Gb/sec. Where is 3.0Gb/sec?



> The box doesn't require a converter for $30, it just missed eSATA connector; after I'll find it and solder, we will talk.


No thank you. It does if you have no intention on hacking the form factor. I know what is involved and it is not just a cable/connector difference between USB and eSATA. If you plan on hacking the form factor to attach an eSATA "bypass" knock yourself out. Im still not interested.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Sorry, but I don't feel you're the right guy to whom we should discuss _technical_ parameters. 1st you got somewhere (any proof ?) USB 'bottleneck' with high numbers then officially posted, 2nd) you got _theoretical_ number of SATA II speed (apples to oranges comparison !), 3rd you posted reply with totally irrelevant reasoning (Mbps or Mb/s still the same speed and that table show same units what you mentioned ), 4th - there is no hack require ( perhaps you use the word too loosely), the cradle required a eSATA connector to solder into a spot where it missed, plus need make a rectangle hole in plastic cover for it. That's it ! Also I have alternating plan, if the eSATA connector will be not available - cut eSATA-SATA cable and solder wires to right spots.
Instead of ask me for details/picture you make up to much negative. Your 'boss' attitude doesn't work here.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

Ryan said:


>


I don't like the fact that it leaves half of the circuit board on the under side of the drive exposed and unprotected.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Sorry, but I don't feel you're the right guy to whom we should discuss _technical_ parameters.


I dont 'feel' you are the right guy to make that judgement. It seems we have an impasse.



> 1st you got somewhere (any proof ?) USB 'bottleneck' with high numbers then officially posted,


I am not sure I understand what you are trying to communicate. Your grammer was horrible. Ill respond on what I think you meant...

If you cant see how 60MB/s is a bottleneck for ~300MB/s there is no point in this discussion. I am not going to begin to differentiate between theoretical, burst speeds, sustained throughput, etc when comparing USB to SATA. It is a mute point. USB 2.0 does not compete on any level with SATA as far as bandwidth.



> 2nd) you got _theoretical_ number of SATA II speed (apples to oranges comparison !),


Why is it apple to oranges? Would SATA I of 187 MB/s make you feel any better about this?



> 3rd you posted reply with totally irrelevant reasoning (Mbps or Mb/s still the same speed and that table show same units what you mentioned ),


What is irrelavant?
MB/s = MegaBYTES per second, Mb/s = MegaBITS per second. In the numbers I stated there are eight bits to each byte. I will assume that you can do the math. Is that now not clear enough?



> 4th - there is no hack require ( perhaps you use the word too loosely), the cradle required a eSATA connector to solder into a spot where it missed, plus need make a rectangle hole in plastic cover for it. *That's it !* Also I have alternating plan, if the eSATA connector will be not available - cut eSATA-SATA cable and solder wires to right spots.


It is a hack. If it is not part of the original form factor, it is a hack. You just stated you are going to "make a rectangle hole in plastic cover for it". You are hacking the case. Then you stated you will be cutting the cable. That is also a hack. *Thats it!*



> Instead of ask me for details/picture you make up to much negative. Your 'boss' attitude doesn't work here.


I am not interested in your details/picture which should now be obvious why I did not ask. Although I would have thought you would have gotten that from "I would prefer aluminum to plastic though" and "Im still not interested". If you need a clear statement then here it is: I am not interested in your hack to a product i have no intention of buying...

I do not understand what "you make up to much negative" is suppose to infer. 
What does 'boss' mean in this context? I am not trying to manage you or order you to do/not do any task.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

HighVoltage said:


> Your grammer was horrible. ................................................It is a mute point.


For some reason, I found the misspelling of grammar and the use of "mute" funny in that post. :lol:


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> For some reason, I found the misspelling of grammar and the use of "mute" funny in that post. :lol:


It is funny. I was typing away trying to wrap my head around where he is coming from and just wish I could hit the 'mute' button. I try not to point out spelling mistakes in posts because it is trivial as most people understand the syntax but you have got to at least make an effort to clearly communicate with good (not perfect) gramm*a*r.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

cartrivision said:


> I don't like the fact that it leaves half of the circuit board on the under side of the drive exposed and unprotected.


Yeah, I have an SATA like that for use with my various computers -- but wouldn't care to use one for "permanent" use.

Even in cases where I do a lot of swapping (i.e. drives in my formal backup rotation), I tend to use more standard external enclosures.


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## Rakul (Sep 3, 2007)

P Smith said:


> 1st you got somewhere (any proof ?) USB 'bottleneck' with high numbers then officially posted, 2nd) you got _theoretical_ number of SATA II speed (apples to oranges comparison !), 3rd you posted reply with totally irrelevant reasoning (Mbps or Mb/s still the same speed and that table show same units what you mentioned )


Not that I'm not enjoying the bantering here  but 60MBps = 480Mbps so HV is using the same numbers you posted for USB2.0 but using Megabyte Per Second instead of Megabit Per Second. The only reason it's even advertised as such is it sounds better to consumers who have no idea what the difference between a bit and a byte is...


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

bwaldron said:


> Sorry -- didn't notice that the one linked to was eSata.
> 
> Could be useful for those wanting to swap drives in/out ... but the HR2x software isn't stored on the drive, so it has no use for swapping versions.


You'e right, it wouldn't help to swap software versions, but imagine this ...

Some channel runs a marathon of a series you love, and youre eSATA drive is almost full. Problem? Nope! Shut down, pop-put your "everyday" eSATA drive, put in your "Marathon" drive, reboot, and reccord. You can then swap out the drives again later and pop that "Marathon" drive in later when you have some time to watch it!


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> You'e right, it wouldn't help to swap software versions, but imagine this ...
> 
> Some channel runs a marathon of a series you love, and youre eSATA drive is almost full. Problem? Nope! Shut down, pop-put your "everyday" eSATA drive, put in your "Marathon" drive, reboot, and reccord. You can then swap out the drives again later and pop that "Marathon" drive in later when you have some time to watch it!


Oh yeah, definitely.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

+1. Kind of reminded me of Yogi Berra.

_ It ain't over 'til it's over

Never answer an anonymous letter

I usually take a two hour nap from one to four

It's deja vu all over again

When you come to a fork in the road, take it

I didn't really say everything I said

Overwhelming underdogs

We made too many wrong mistakes

You can observe a lot by watching

The future ain't what it used to be

It gets late early out here

If the world were perfect, it wouldn't be

If the people don't want to come out to the ballpark, nobody's going to stop them _



spartanstew said:


> For some reason, I found the misspelling of grammar and the use of "mute" funny in that post. :lol:


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## rajeshh (Sep 11, 2007)

Has anyone used this or something like this with the HR20s? Or is this speculation that this will work...I'd like to know before going ahead that someone had tried it and that this works for sure. Thanks


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

cartrivision said:


> I don't like the fact that it leaves half of the circuit board on the under side of the drive exposed and unprotected.


Latest drives have half or 1/3 size PCB - shouldn't be a problem with exposure.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HighVoltage said:


> There are converters available but they run ~30.00 USD. The problem then becomes USB2.0s 60MB/sec bottleneck as compared to eSATA 300MB/sec...


Never raw speed ( bus clock ) been a bottleneck - there are other major factors what cut real speed and create the bottleneck. I never heard of using the term that way.


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## smolenski (Oct 25, 2006)

Drew2k said:


> You'e right, it wouldn't help to swap software versions, but imagine this ...
> 
> Some channel runs a marathon of a series you love, and youre eSATA drive is almost full. Problem? Nope! Shut down, pop-put your "everyday" eSATA drive, put in your "Marathon" drive, reboot, and reccord. You can then swap out the drives again later and pop that "Marathon" drive in later when you have some time to watch it!


This might be a silly question, but I always though when a new drive was installed in an external enclosure it was formatted or reformatted every time a reboot was performed. Am I wrong on this?


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Never raw speed ( bus clock ) been a bottleneck - there are other major factors what cut real speed and create the bottleneck.


It was a relative comparison of two different buses. I am well aware of the factors that come into play in most gateway applications. IME when discussing bandwidth in gateways the raw speeds are always used as a base comparison.



> I never heard of using the term that way.


What term in which way? Bottleneck? You just used that term 'that way' twice in the first sentence of your response.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

...


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Well, you understand everything, I see. 
So, for final technical point - used a word 'bottleneck' in the context wasn't correct. 
Those configurations ( HDD+USB controller or just bare SATA HDD) have a bottleneck with lower level then raw speed used in original thread and limited by dynamic of mechanical parts, cache size/FW, etc . OK?


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## glennb (Sep 21, 2006)

The grammar was pretty funny.

I'm not sure what the_underscores_were_for_in_the_sentenses.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Well, you understand everything, I see.
> So, for final technical point - used a word 'bottleneck' in the context wasn't correct.
> Those configurations ( HDD+USB controller or just bare SATA HDD) have a bottleneck with lower level then raw speed used in original thread and limited by dynamic of mechanical parts, cache size/FW, etc . OK?


 OK with what? I am sorry but I cannot decipher your response.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Your picked numbers never been a 'bottleneck' while using SATA/PATA HDDs with or without USB controller in DVRs (Dish or DTV).
You should accept it.


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Your picked numbers never been a 'bottleneck' while using SATA/PATA HDDs with or without USB controller in DVRs (Dish or DTV).
> .


I never stated at any time towards which application this may prove as a bottleneck. I simple stated the obvious implication of transitioning from 300Mbs to 60Mbs.



> You should accept it


What happened to "Your 'boss' attitude doesn't work here"...At this point I am not inclined to accept anything you have to say especially when it is not even coherent.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Then I don't understand why you participating in the thread. 
Anything positive ?


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

smolenski said:


> This might be a silly question, but I always though when a new drive was installed in an external enclosure it was formatted or reformatted every time a reboot was performed. Am I wrong on this?


When a *new* drive is connected to an HR2x DVR, the drive is formatted and then married to this DVR, so the drive will not work in any other DVR. Any drive married to the DVR can be swapped in with a reboot, and the drive will not be reformatted. This permits recordings to be retained in the event of a power outage, for example. Just imagine how upset people would be if the eSATA drive was reformatted simply because of a reboot...


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## HighVoltage (Nov 27, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Then I don't understand why you participating in the thread.


The first few responses I made were contributing to the thread in my interpretation of the spirit of this thread. Then you started making claims that I was in error, in spite of the fact that the examples you provided clearly showed I was not in error. In each response to you statements you have failed to answer the questions I posed to you. Instead you seem intent to dig up some other ridiculous comment and throw that on the table.

I have the distinct impression you have not understood anything I have said despite the fact that it was in coherent English. It is arguable that you could say the same.



> Anything positive ?


Yes. I am absolutely positive I have had enough. Babble on if you must, maybe someone will be able to decipher what your saying and find something useful. I am sure the next response will be equally absurd as the others and quite probably childish. I hope on this one point you might actually prove me wrong.

I have lost all interest in this endless banter. I will gracefully give you the last words. I just hope for everyone else's sake those words might actually coalesce into some kind of recognizable sentence structure.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

P Smith said:


> Let me see how I can make eSATA connector by myself...


Well, I'm back with null result - I got a eSATA bracket, did cut wires from it, soldered wires to spare connector on PCB in 'the USB only' BlacX (there are no missing components, signals coming straight from the spare eSATA connector to internal chip) - no dice, Windows XP didn't sense it regardless of placing SATA signals (TX/RX) - direct or reverse order.

So, to conclude this - if you need a cradle with eSATA connection (1.5 or 3 Gbps), buy other more expensive BlacX with dual interface.


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