# 721 -vs- Tivo (Why does everyone say Tivo is better?)



## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

Let start off by saying I own neither but have used both. I personally own a 508 and my only disappointment with it, is that it is a single tuner DVR. Of course I knew this the whole time, so it wasn't unexpected.

We all always hear how Tivo is so much better than Dish's DVR. Personally after seeing the DVR comparison charts, I think I'd prefer a 721 over a Tivo anyway. I couldn't believe the Tivo doesn't do PIP. The lack of an UHF remote is also a big loss in my opinion as I currently have my DVR plugged up to multiple televisions and can watch it from anyroom. I am not saying the Tivo is worse, but that I just don't understand how the Dish 721 gets such a bad rap compared to the Tivo. In my opinion it's better as it also holds close to 3x the amount of content as does the DirecTivo.

I know lots of people will say that Tivo has a lot of features that the 721 doesn't, which is true, but are these features worth while? Do you really need a season pass? It's not like you don't know what time each show is going to be on every week. The VOD feature is nice but I don't think I'd want that along with "suggestions" to fill up the already small drive. The one clear advantage I'd give it is name-based recording, but without an UHF remote, picture in picture, no access to a keyboard and small hard drive. My vote would have to go with the 721, which i think it deserves a lot more credit than it currently gets.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

How about my TiVo has not been restarted in maybe 6 months and at that time the only reason I turned it off was I had to move it.

I paid $99 for mine, how much did you pay for yours?


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## Chaos (Apr 24, 2002)

As new new Tivo user and a former 721 and 508 user, I have to say that I like the Tivo better for watching recorded programming (which I'm never short of with it's searches and suggestions), but it is not at all friendly for watching live tv.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I have a SA Tivo and 2 508s. To me, Season Passes are far more of an advantage than you speak of. Tivo doesn't miss a program..period. You can set up weekly timers on the 721, but when a show is moved by a half hour, or extended by 15 minutes, the Dish PVR doesn't pick up on it-Tivo does. I no longer set up weekly recordings. Instead, I make a point over the weekend to setup my weekly recordings on the 508. This is the only way I know I'll record the programs without fail.

The bigger downside, to me, is the cost. As mentioned, you can get a 2 tuner tivo for a lot less than a 721. Like you though, I've got my 508s in the garage hooked into the cable going through the house. The UHF remote cannot be lived without. If D* ever came out with a UHF remote, I'd probably E-Bay all my Eq and switch. I'd think the 508 will keep a pretty fair price, as there will never be a PVR fee associated with it.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

A wishlist for your favorite sports team is priceless.


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## Patrick G. (Sep 10, 2002)

Does the 721 hold ANY advantage over the 2-tuner Tivo? Can you use the 2-tuner Tivo with Dish Network, and if so, what's the best way??


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Patrick G. said:


> Does the 721 hold ANY advantage over the 2-tuner Tivo? Can you use the 2-tuner Tivo with Dish Network, and if so, what's the best way??


Only with Directv.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

AppliedAggression said:


> Do you really need a season pass? It's not like you don't know what time each show is going to be on every week.


Actually, you don't always know, especially with the cable networks. They move shows around a lot, and it's really nice not to have to track them down all the time. And then there are the super-sized episodes and pre-emptions and so forth.

I've had a 721 since November and before that I had ReplayTV for 2 years and there is no comparison. I prefer the 721 to the Replay because of the dual tuners and integrated box. But I would gladly trade the UHF remote, PIP and keyboard ability for name-based recording. It's not even close.

Dennis


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> Does the 721 hold ANY advantage over the 2-tuner Tivo?


Only four things I can think of,

Future Internet access
Future Interactive applications
UHF Remote
PIP

My thoughts on each
Internet access, I don't want internet on my TV, I have a computer for that. Interactive apps, Wink may be better then OpenTV, but I don't want that filler. UHF Remote, as long as I can use the remote through a blanket, it will be ok. PIP, I have no use for any type of picture in picture.

Stock hard drive size is an advantage of the 721, but with Samsung and Philips models shipping with larger hard drive, and being able to upgrade a DTiVos hard drive, in my opinion the advantage is in D*s corner. You can by a DTiVo with the standard 40GB hard drive and buy an 180 or 200 GB drive and put it in for cheaper then a 721 would cost.

The ability to not record repeats on the DTiVo is a great feature and one that I can't wait to utilize.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

The thing that disappoints me about the 721 is that all development has stopped. We have had a preview of the upcoming "major upgrade" about 3 months ago. The customer is still waiting. I see a box with a lot of potential, but at the moment, it's underwhelming.

Then, there is the cost. The best you can do for a 721 is ~$500. A DirecTivo for an existing customer, barring special promotions, runs for around $249. That is about the same price as a single tuner DishDVR.

The only advantage that Dish _had_ was that it's DVRs were fee-free. Not anymore. While the 501/508/721 should remain fee free, the 510, 522, and 921 will have a monthly fee.



Steve Mehs said:


> Stock hard drive size is an advantage of the 721, but with Samsung and Philips models shipping with larger hard drive, and being able to upgrade a DTiVos hard drive, in my opinion the advantage is in D*s corner. You can by a DTiVo with the standard 40GB hard drive and buy an 180 or 200 GB drive and put it in for cheaper then a 721 would cost.


Slight problem, Steve.

Because of limitations of the file system, you are limited to 137GB. If you put in a drive above 137GB, the additional drive space is wasted. But, you can hook up to 2x160GB hard drives for a total of 274GB of recording space.


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

I think most ppl overrate name-based recording. In the case of supersized episodes, as long as it's noted in the guide that it runs til 8:45 or whattime, then the 721 or any other Dish PVR will record the whole thing. If it's not in the guide then the Tivo won't record it either! 

The only advantage to name-based recording is if the guide changes after you set the timer. Usually it does not change in the 9 days of guide time there is.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

AppliedAggression said:


> I think most ppl overrate name-based recording. In the case of supersized episodes, as long as it's noted in the guide that it runs til 8:45 or whattime, then the 721 or any other Dish PVR will record the whole thing. If it's not in the guide then the Tivo won't record it either!
> 
> The only advantage to name-based recording is if the guide changes after you set the timer. Usually it does not change in the 9 days of guide time there is.


So if you have a repeating timer for a show and that show has a "Super-sized" episode it will record the whole show?


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## Phil T (Mar 25, 2002)

I thing I really like on my Dish recievers that TIVO does not have is the on screen caller ID.


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## marko (Jan 9, 2003)

AppliedAggression said:


> I think most ppl overrate name-based recording. In the case of supersized episodes, as long as it's noted in the guide that it runs til 8:45 or whattime, then the 721 or any other Dish PVR will record the whole thing. If it's not in the guide then the Tivo won't record it either!
> 
> The only advantage to name-based recording is if the guide changes after you set the timer. Usually it does not change in the 9 days of guide time there is.


I think so too, but then again I am 501 owner, and since I do not have a tivo it is tough for me to really say that. But I can say I am very happy with my 501, and it suites my needs just fine for PVR'ing shows. I don't timeshift 100% of the tv I watch, so it works out well.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

AppliedAggression said:


> I think most ppl overrate name-based recording. In the case of supersized episodes, as long as it's noted in the guide that it runs til 8:45 or whattime, then the 721 or any other Dish PVR will record the whole thing.


Not unless you set a separate timer for that episode. If I set a time for Friends based on its regular time, it creates a timer for 7 to 7:30 plus whatever padding I add. When the supersized episode comes on, I have to manually change the timer or create a new one - it doesn't change itself.



AppliedAggression said:


> The only advantage to name-based recording is if the guide changes after you set the timer. Usually it does not change in the 9 days of guide time there is.


I get it now. You are referring to single or one-time timers. In that case, I agree that name-based recording doesn't get you much. But most of us use weekly or daily timers. If you want to set single timers for every show you want to record, than the 721 is just as good as Tivo, but most people don't want to do that.

Dennis


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

And season pass. Its great for a channel like Cartoon Network that seems to move shows around. When they switched Family Guy a half our earlier, the TiVo just picked it up. I would not have gotten that with the 721 or any other Dish PVR.


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## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

AppliedAggression said:


> ...I couldn't believe the Tivo doesn't do PIP...


PIP is unnecessary with a 2-tuner DVR. For example, let's say you are watching 2 NFL games at once. With PIP, game 1 fills most of the screen while game 2 goes to the smaller screen, making both games harder to view and dividing your attention between them.

With dual tuners you record game 1 and game 2, pausing game 2 as it starts and switching the display over to game 1. You watch game 1 until it goes to commercials, then you pause game 1, switch over to game 2 and un-pause it. You watch game 2 until the commercials start, pause it, and go back to game 1. Scan through commercials and watch game 1 some more, repeat, repeat, repeat ...

By the time you eliminate commercials and halftime nonsense, you have watched 2 games in their entirety in the amount of time you normally watch 1 game.



AppliedAggression said:


> ...I know lots of people will say that Tivo has a lot of features that the 721 doesn't, which is true, but are these features worth while? Do you really need a season pass? It's not like you don't know what time each show is going to be on every week...


I have no idea when 90% of the shows I watch are aired live. I have my DirecTiVos set to record first-run only for every weekly network series, and hadn't seen that Law & Order SVU had moved to Tuesday. They made the schedule change during summer reruns which aren't recorded. TiVo will make sure I see the season opener, while a 721 would have recorded whatever else NBC is showing on Friday night. The 721 would have also missed the last half-hour of the 90-minute season finale for CSI:Miami last May. I didn't know it was extra-long until I watched it and it didn't end before I had to go to work :lol:



AppliedAggression said:


> ...The VOD feature is nice but I don't think I'd want that along with "suggestions" to fill up the already small drive..


Suggestions are an option, not a requirement. Some like them, some don't. Mine are turned off (wanted to record too many kiddie cartoons), but even when they are on they are ultra-low priority and get deleted when a user-chosen recording needs the drive space.

TiVo is SUPPOSED to always have all the drive space full of something so you have the most possible choices, and to erase stuff when you decide to delete it or when necessary to record something new and more important. A drive space usage indicator is irrelevant. DVR's are time-shifters, not archivers, so I don't fret over it - that's TiVo's job


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Look, I'm a former 501 owner myself. I was hoping to upgrade to the 510 or 522. But, when it was announed that Dish would be charging a DVR fee for the newer receivers, I bailed. The quality of software on the DishDVR verses the "DirecTV with DVR" does not justify the fee that Dish wants to charge. If the DishDVR continued to be a free service with the new models, I probably would not have switched.

Imagine that! A simple business change has caused several DBSTalkers to jump from Dish to DirecTV. This wasn't a decision made by the engineers.


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

Count me in the minority as one who has no desires to have name based recordings, wish lists, or season passes with Dish Network. The 721 suits my recording needs perfectly fine right now without charging extra DVR fees which I can't really justify spending extra money for when I can achieve the same thing myself for free with no hassle. It's certainly not perfect yet, but it gets the job done reliably.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Sure would be nice to just set one timer to record all NJ Devils games wouldn't it?


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

James_F said:


> Sure would be nice to just set one timer to record all NJ Devils games wouldn't it?


 I usually watch all the Devils games live truth be told.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

A true fan... You want Sean Burke back?


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

> PIP is unnecessary with a 2-tuner DVR. For example, let's say you are watching 2 NFL games at once. With PIP, game 1 fills most of the screen while game 2 goes to the smaller screen, making both games harder to view and dividing your attention between them.


Well, I think many people would disagree. I'm sure many Sunday Ticket holders would swap between more than two games if they had that capability.



> With dual tuners you record game 1 and game 2, pausing game 2 as it starts and switching the display over to game 1. You watch game 1 until it goes to commercials, then you pause game 1, switch over to game 2 and un-pause it. You watch game 2 until the commercials start, pause it, and go back to game 1.


Of course, PIP wouldn't stop you from doing this...and it would give you more options, like watching both live, and then doing instant replay or reverse scan whenever there was a big play on either screen/window.

On a receiver like the 921, which will be most widely used on widescreen televisions, the potential exists to add split-screen functionality, at least for SD games.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

My best use of PIP is helping to diagnose lost tuner 2 messages 

I set my latest refurb 721 up last night. If it hangs in there long enough we may wait and get a new sub deal from D for their high def box TIVO partnered with a new tv, something we could really use. Jen wants 3 100 hour tivos, no doubt to record more cooking shows....


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## Filip1 (Sep 3, 2002)

I have 5 dish dvrs. I have never used a Tivo, but i surely have read enough posts praising it over the years. I have several questions for you Tivo users. Can you surf the guide while watching live or recorded material in a pip window? Can you create or edit timers while watching recorded material? I browse my guide while watching recordings all the time. I would miss this alot if you can't do these things with a Tivo.
I have read many times that with name based recordings you never have to look at the guide and don't even know when shows are on after awhile. Well I'm probably in the minority in this but I actually enjoy setting timers. I love to know when shows change nites or have new episodes. I also find many new shows in the guide that i didn't know were coming on. 
I also like that dish has much bigger stock hard drives. I know you Tivo owners can upgrade, but alot of us can't and wouldn't either. Look I love having tech support just a toll free call away. Yes, Tivo owners we dish people need tech support with our DVR's alot more than you do, but with our very inexpensive extended warranty, it is great to have somewhere to turn when you have problems, and have we had problems.lol As a former Directv sub(6 yrs) i don't believe i would get the level of support when it came to receiver problems as i get with dish.
Tivos are great I admit that, just not perfect.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Ken_F said:


> Well, I think many people would disagree. I'm sure many Sunday Ticket holders would swap between more than two games if they had that capability.


I have NFLST and PIP is worthless to me. My old TV used to do it and I could never really see what was going on in the little box. With the TiVo I can just switch between the two tuners and rewind or pause either of them.


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## the_beaver (Feb 15, 2003)

can tivo record 5.1 surround 
like the 721 and other dish 
receivers---i'm not sure but
i don't think it can...


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

The DirecTiVo can record and play 5.1. Where did you hear it couldn't?


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## the_beaver (Feb 15, 2003)

from a friend who has
a SA cable tivo---


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

The SA TiVo cannot. But the DirecTV DVR/DirecTiVo can. If the SA TiVo had a optical input it could.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

James_F said:


> And season pass. Its great for a channel like Cartoon Network that seems to move shows around. When they switched Family Guy a half our earlier, the TiVo just picked it up. I would not have gotten that with the 721 or any other Dish PVR.


Exactly. I'm tired of having to search for Samurai Jack all the time because they keep moving it around.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Curtis0620 said:


> So if you have a repeating timer for a show and that show has a "Super-sized" episode it will record the whole show?


No, it usually will fire at the time it was programmed to when the timer was first created. So if Will and Grace starts 15 minutes early, you miss the first 15 minutes.

It IS annoying, but if you watch the shows regularly you just set an additional single event timer (I usually do it with my NBC-W channel as I have a waiver, so I don't lose the second tuner if another show is being recorded or watched live) when they pull these supersize stunts.

My biggest peeve is the ER and Friends nonsense where they SAY Friends ends at 8.30 when it really ends at 8:35 or when ER is supposed to start at 10 and really starts at 9:55. If you are going to do this, FINE. Just correct the guide. And another 721 annoyance is that if you set the timer to record more than the standard 1 minute early, the info button will bring up the info on the show that was on right before the show you recorded (ie. you set the timer to record ER 5 minutes early instead of one minute early. When the show is recorded it says that you recorded Good Morning, Miami instead of ER, although you DID record ER and the last minute of Good Morning Miami). Supposedly this is addressed in the next 721 software release per Scott G., I believe.

The supposed reason for the lack of name based recording which would supposedly reduce the chances of these problems occurring, is that Tivo has patents to name based recording. E* used to have name based recording on the Dishplayer but I believe they were sued to remove it.

The GOOD thing about NOT having name based recording is that we don't get the bizarre behavior that the Dishplayer used to have when a show would have a rerun on another night and that would generate a conflict with an exiting timer. It is less of an issue with a 2 tuner PVR, but with a single tuner it was a nuisance as it would cause the machine to either misfire, record the rerun instead of the show I did want, or mysterious EPG downloaded guide problems would spring up. Now that the name based recordings are set based on their start times, these issues have stopped for me.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

Can someone... anyone provide any evidence that Tivo has a patent on Name based recording? I've seen plenty of people cite it as the reason that the 721 doesn't have it, but not one person has provided any credible proof of this.

As per usual, I Find this urban legend extremely hard to believe. I know wierder patents are issued, but every other PVR on the market has name based recording, except E*? Being as that's the case, how can Tivo have a patent on a technology that every other PVR maker has, except E*? It stretches the limits of crediblity.

Until someone can provide some evidence to the contrary, there is no patent on name based recording that's enforced, and E* is just lazy or stupid, or both for not including it.


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

A great thing about PIP is watching another channel while you wait for a sports game to come back from commercial.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

I just switch tuners. Press the down arrow on the DirecTiVo.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Curtis0620 said:


> I just switch tuners. Press the down arrow on the DirecTiVo.


Exactly... The pip was alway in the way. Sure you can move it, but thats just a pain in the ass. Name based recording is so much more important that a small pip window.


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## spanishannouncetable (Apr 23, 2002)

Filip1 said:


> ... Can you surf the guide while watching live or recorded material in a pip window?


No, but since it's a DVR you can pause what you're watching, check the guide all you want, then clear the guide off the screen and unpause your program right where you left off without missing any of it 



Filip1 said:


> ...Can you create or edit timers while watching recorded material ? I browse my guide while watching recordings all the time. I would miss this alot if you can't do these things with a Tivo.


No, but when you hit the TiVo button during a recorded show, it saves your place for you automatically. You then edit timers all you like, then restart the show right where you left off.



Filip1 said:


> ... I have read many times that with name based recordings you never have to look at the guide and don't even know when shows are on after awhile. Well I'm probably in the minority in this but I actually enjoy setting timers. I love to know when shows change nites or have new episodes. I also find many new shows in the guide that i didn't know were coming on.


Different strokes, I guess. After I got my DirecTiVos, I realized how much time I was wasting sorting through TV listings myself when TiVo's software is so much better at it. Now I have more time for my XBox and PS2 

I set-up a non-autorecording Wishlist to find EVERY new series that appears anywhere in the guide data, and once a week or so I read that and see what looks good. TiVo also sends info about new shows, classics movies and lots of other stuff in Showcases and Tivolution Magazine as part of the service.

I have other n-ar WL's to find every NFL game available to me without having NFLST (usually 6-8 games a week), any appearance of "The Lone Ranger", any program with George Carlin or Metallica in it, and on and on. Some of my few auto-record WL's store the last two 6pm and 11pm local newscasts and rotate them out every day, catch every Country Music Award show (for the wife unit) that it finds regardless of channel, and even tirelessly searches for the return of "Beavis and Butt-head" (too bad it's only found the movie so far  ).



Filip1 said:


> ... I also like that dish has much bigger stock hard drives. I know you Tivo owners can upgrade, but alot of us can't and wouldn't either.


DirecTiVos are now available with stock drives of 80 and 120 gig.



Filip1 said:


> Tivos are great I admit that, just not perfect.


No, they're not perfect. HMO is not available on DirecTiVos, Music Choice can't be recorded on DirecTiVos, there is no Caller-ID on any TiVo and there's no keyboard support for entering search info. Still, any man who tries to take my DirecTiVos away will know he's been in a fight when I'm done with him


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

James_F said:


> A true fan... You want Sean Burke back?


 Rotisserie By The Numbers: The NHL's Top 35 Goalies
By Craig Rondinone

27. Sean Burke, Coyotes: The good news is he has had three straight seasons with save percentage's of .920 or better. The bad news is he gets injured more often than any other goalie.

I think I'll stick with Brodeur and Schwab for now!


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Unthinkable said:


> I think I'll stick with Brodeur and Schwab for now!


I don't blame you. He is always injured, but what does it matter, its not like the Coyotes are any good.


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## Ken_F (Jan 13, 2003)

> I have NFLST and PIP is worthless to me. My old TV used to do it and I could never really see what was going on in the little box. With the TiVo I can just switch between the two tuners and rewind or pause either of them.


You need a bigger tv.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Ken_F said:


> You need a bigger tv.


Yes I do, the 65" is too small... 

Seriously, I just don't like the small window. You can't read a damn thing on it. I guess if you want to use it to see when commercials are done, thats fine.


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## Karl Foster (Mar 23, 2002)

I second the worthlessness of PIP. UTV has PIP and other than the internet access, the PIP is the least used "feature" of the box. It is definitely not a deal-breaker or deal-maker, just sorta...there.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

spanishannouncetable said:


> No, but when you hit the TiVo button during a recorded show, it saves your place for you automatically. You then edit timers all you like, then restart the show right where you left off.


The 721 does this as well.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

karl_f said:


> I second the worthlessness of PIP. UTV has PIP and other than the internet access, the PIP is the least used "feature" of the box. It is definitely not a deal-breaker or deal-maker, just sorta...there.


I agree. It's fun to play with occasionally but I wouldn't care if it wasn't there.


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## Filip1 (Sep 3, 2002)

Spanish,
I appreciate your comments, but you miss understand my point. The 721 has good features that the Tivo just doesn't have. The ability to browse the guide and set and edit times while still being able to watch your program. This is not only enjoyable it saves time... so I can have more time to play my Playstation 2 RPGs. As far as finding new shows to record. I want that little chore thank you. I don't need, nor trust a machine to know what i want. Look Tivo people you have a great and reliable machine, but no matter how much you try to find work arounds for things it can't do , like fast forward at 300 times normal( the 721 can do this and i use this alot) and use the guide and its features while still watching you program, it is not the same as having those features. I guess I'm just trying to point out that we dish people are not totally nuts in liking our dvrs too.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

Season Passes and Wishlists are the 2 best features a PVR can have. No other PVR/DVR has them. You can push PIP and scanning the guide while watching a recording all you want. BTW: How can you watch the show and scan the guide at the same time? You can only look at one or the other.


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## Filip1 (Sep 3, 2002)

Curtis0620,
Let me restate, from everything i've read over the years, Directivo is a great machine. I'm not arguing that, I'm simply pointing out that there are some reasons to own and enjoy the dish dvrs.
On a Dish dvr, when we bring up the guide there is a pip in the right had corner, that is good sized and has audio. So you can watch and listen to a recording or live show and surf the guide. On the 721, you can even set timers and edit them without losing the picture. On the 50x's you can surf the guide but when you create timers the show is paused and when you are done editing etc. The show starts up again where it was.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

What I'm saying is that those features are insignificant when compared to Season Passes and Wishlists.

Why search the guide when you can search for a specific type of show (e.g. Comedies, SciFi, Sports, etc.). Or search for your favorite actors or directors. Or automatically record your favorite sports team without knowing what time or channel they are on with a keyword wishlist. And after some time of training your TiVo, suggestions are very useful.

TiVo users trully, rarely search the guide.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Guys, we can argue about 721 vs. Tivo until we're blue in the face. I've posted my reasons a few days ago. The 721 will have some features that the DirecTivo doesn't and vice versa. That's just the way the way things are. It appears that you are satisfied with the 721, while others are satisfied with the DirecTivos.


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## Filip1 (Sep 3, 2002)

Mark, You are right of course, both machines are good and very likely the Directivo is the better machine. I just felt people should realize their are somethings about the 721 that make it enjoyable to use too. I'm done with this, no hard feelings. Whatever dvr you have you know without a doubt that you could never go back to the world of vcr recording. I spent 20 years recording with up to 3 vcrs and I would never go back. You gotta love the dvr, which ever one you own.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Some people try to think of all the advantages that the other DVR receivers out there have but forget to think about the advantages that their DVR receiver has to the other ones on the market. Me and many others are looking forward to when a DVR receiver comes out that has the advantages that both DirecTivo and Dish DVR have.


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## msanto (Mar 15, 2003)

Curtis0620 said:


> So if you have a repeating timer for a show and that show has a "Super-sized" episode it will record the whole show?


No, it won't. Tivo will. That's what convinced my wife. After I saw Dish was going to charge for PVRs, I decided to switch once my contract is out. Last week, Sex and the City had a supersized 1/2 season finale, and my wife missed the last 5 minutes because of it.

Also, we've had problems with getting something recorded and going "what the heck is that" and then realizing it was because the station moved whatever it was we wanted.


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## msanto (Mar 15, 2003)

Chaos said:


> As new new Tivo user and a former 721 and 508 user, I have to say that I like the Tivo better for watching recorded programming (which I'm never short of with it's searches and suggestions), but it is not at all friendly for watching live tv.


Can someone explain why a Tivo is not friendly for watching live TV? I heard this from a friend that has a standalone Tivo, but he didn't elaborate. Granted, we don't watch much live TV anymore, but still ...


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

msanto said:


> Can someone explain why a Tivo is not friendly for watching live TV? I heard this from a friend that has a standalone Tivo, but he didn't elaborate. Granted, we don't watch much live TV anymore, but still ...


I assume because you can't browse the guide, set timers, or viewed your recorded program list while watching live tv. Someone who owns a tivo could probably add more to this, but i haven't played with one much.


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## DTV (Aug 13, 2003)

AppliedAggression said:


> I assume because you can't browse the guide, set timers, or viewed your recorded program list while watching live tv. Someone who owns a tivo could probably add more to this, but i haven't played with one much.


Umm sorry try again. Who said you cannot surf the guide while watching TV? I can assure you that you can. I can filter out content, surf up to 12-13 days out, and select recordings all while watching live TV. When a commercial for a "spotlight" show comes on I can automatically record it using the "select" or "thumbs up" button. Can your 721 do that? When you run out of space on your awesome 721 can you upgrade the hard drive? I can on my TiVo. You also miss the point of Season Passes. I created Season Passes for all my favorite shows over 2 years ago and I have never missed any portion of any episode in that time. Never have I had to worry if a show changed time slots or was a "Supersized" episode. I also do not have to worry when the new season starts since I know my DirecTiVo will automatically record the new episodes when they air. This is especially important for shows like "The Sopranos", "Stargate SG1", "Six Feet Under" and all the other shows that have weird seasons. Without Season Passes I would have to monitor the schedules and be aware when new episodes aired or else I would miss them.

You can talk up the 721 all you want but the bottomline is it is not in the same class as the DirecTiVo. Add to the fact that an existing sub can get a DirecTiVo for $99 and it is not even close.


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## DTV (Aug 13, 2003)

BobMurdoch said:


> The GOOD thing about NOT having name based recording is that we don't get the bizarre behavior that the Dishplayer used to have when a show would have a rerun on another night and that would generate a conflict with an exiting timer. It is less of an issue with a 2 tuner PVR, but with a single tuner it was a nuisance as it would cause the machine to either misfire, record the rerun instead of the show I did want, or mysterious EPG downloaded guide problems would spring up. Now that the name based recordings are set based on their start times, these issues have stopped for me.


That may have been how the Dishplayer worked but it is not how the DirecTiVo works. It will not record the show if it has been previously recorded within the last 28 days. You can also tell it to record only first run shows which really works. Another nice feature is if I have to cancel a Season Pass recording for some reason TiVo will record that episode if it is aired again.


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

DTV said:


> Umm sorry try again. Who said you cannot surf the guide while watching TV? I can assure you that you can. I can filter out content, surf up to 12-13 days out, and select recordings all while watching live TV. When a commercial for a "spotlight" show comes on I can automatically record it using the "select" or "thumbs up" button. Can your 721 do that? When you run out of space on your awesome 721 can you upgrade the hard drive? I can on my TiVo. You also miss the point of Season Passes. I created Season Passes for all my favorite shows over 2 years ago and I have never missed any portion of any episode in that time. Never have I had to worry if a show changed time slots or was a "Supersized" episode. I also do not have to worry when the new season starts since I know my DirecTiVo will automatically record the new episodes when they air. This is especially important for shows like "The Sopranos", "Stargate SG1", "Six Feet Under" and all the other shows that have weird seasons. Without Season Passes I would have to monitor the schedules and be aware when new episodes aired or else I would miss them.
> 
> You can talk up the 721 all you want but the bottomline is it is not in the same class as the DirecTiVo. Add to the fact that an existing sub can get a DirecTiVo for $99 and it is not even close.


More than one person said you couldn't look at the guide or edit timers while watching a show. Someone care to clarify?


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

You can look at the guide, but to edit a "timer" or season pass you have to go into the TiVo menus...


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

msanto said:


> No, it won't. Tivo will. That's what convinced my wife. After I saw Dish was going to charge for PVRs, I decided to switch once my contract is out. Last week, Sex and the City had a supersized 1/2 season finale, and my wife missed the last 5 minutes because of it.


 HBO shows Sex and the City over and over again. Missing the end of one episode the first night it airs isn't as big of a deal to me when you can catch it again a day or two later. Other networks might not give you the same chance for this, but HBO, all the movie channel packages for the matter, MTV, TLC, Discovery, TechTV etc... give extra opportunities to record the same event in a one week or one day timespan if you don't mind not being the first one on the block to see it live.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> HBO shows Sex and the City over and over again. Missing the end of one episode the first night it airs isn't as big of a deal to me when you can catch it again a day or two later. Other networks might not give you the same chance for this, but HBO, all the movie channel packages for the matter, MTV, TLC, Discovery, TechTV etc... give extra opportunities to record the same event in a one week or one day timespan if you don't mind not being the first one on the block to see it live.


So, because one network shows programs repeatedly, it's ok for the 721 to be a hunk of crap? Sorry... but no. What DTV said was exactly right, and shows exactly why the 721 is the most inferior PVR on the market today in it's class.

I guess what infuriates me most about the 721 is that it's got so much potential and it's wasted with incredibly poor software. There is so much they could do with it, but they've done the bare minimum and it's pathetic.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

:icon_peac


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I think that the guide data needs to be accurate in order for the dvr to record the entire show. Next week on Thursday's Friends and the other shows that follow are all super sized and the guide shows this. So I will not be missing any of the shows endings. 

Tivo works like this also. Without accurate guide data Tivo won't record the show right either. The point is it's not the dvr it's the guide data and it needs to be up to date and accurate or you will loose the ending of a lot of shows with Dish dvrs. 

As a work around on shows like "Sex and the City " and "Dead like me" I pad them by 15 minutes in order to take in to account that HBO and Showtime often do not keep up with the times on schedule guides. 

As far as network programs I often will record in blocks as to not miss the endings and beginings of shows that follow each other. This also is a work around with the 65 timer bug with 721s. 

Now before everyone jumps on me for suggesting recording blocks I only suggest this as a work around on a temporary basis till we get the new software update sometime this month. :icon_peac


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I think that the guide data needs to be accurate in order for the dvr to record the entire show. Next week on Thursday's Friends and the other shows that follow are all super sized and the guide shows this. So I will not be missing any of the shows endings.
> 
> Tivo works like this also. Without accurate guide data Tivo won't record the show right either. The point is it's not the dvr it's the guide data and it needs to be up to date and accurate or you will loose the ending of a lot of shows with Dish dvrs.


No, it's not the guide data that's the problem in this case. If you set a weekly timer for Friends based on the regular half-hour time slot, when the super-sized episode comes up you will lose the end of it even if the guide is correct. You have to set a separate timer for the super-sized episode or adjust the original one in order to get the full episode. Tivo will record the full super-sized episode without you having to do anything. That is the difference.

Dennis


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I will check this out next week and see if you are right and make individual timers just to see if it cuts off the endings of the supersized episodes. I'm curious to see if this happens . I have been doing the block recording since last fall and I don't have this happen to my shows.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I just tried to set up individual timers for next Thursday's Friends etc, and the timer set up for 40 minutes instead of the 30 minutes it is originaly. No way to see if the timer would normaly do this since the guide shows all the shows as 40 minutes . I guess I will have to see again in the near future when the show is 30 minutes long and then again when they super size the episodes to see if it records them.


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## AppliedAggression (Aug 16, 2003)

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I just tried to set up individual timers for next Thursday's Friends etc, and the timer set up for 40 minutes instead of the 30 minutes it is originaly. No way to see if the timer would normaly do this since the guide shows all the shows as 40 minutes . I guess I will have to see again in the near future when the show is 30 minutes long and then again when they super size the episodes to see if it records them.


With individual timers the 721 works the same as the Tivo. What he is talking about is if you set a quickly timer on the 721 to record Friends every week from 8:00 to 8:30. When they supersized show comes around it will stop recording it at 8:30 since it goes by the original time of when you first set it. This isn't a big deal to me since I usually keep an eye on the guide and know what's coming. Maybe for ppl who watch a lot of shows that are still alive, season pass would be helpful. I find it pointless.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

I don't use the guide at all. Maybe thats because of the season pass feature. I just set and forget. I've had season passes that have been alive for a couple years. That and the watch lists.... Those are so cool...


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

AppliedAggression said:


> With individual timers the 721 works the same as the Tivo. What he is talking about is if you set a quickly timer on the 721 to record Friends every week from 8:00 to 8:30. When they supersized show comes around it will stop recording it at 8:30 since it goes by the original time of when you first set it. This isn't a big deal to me since I usually keep an eye on the guide and know what's coming. Maybe for ppl who watch a lot of shows that are still alive, season pass would be helpful. I find it pointless.


Yes, that is my point. I would guess based on the comments I have seen posted here that most people prefer to just set weekly timers rather than individual ones every week, which is why there are so many complaints about the 721 not having name-based recording.

Dennis


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## msanto (Mar 15, 2003)

Unthinkable said:


> HBO shows Sex and the City over and over again. Missing the end of one episode the first night it airs isn't as big of a deal to me when you can catch it again a day or two later. Other networks might not give you the same chance for this, but HBO, all the movie channel packages for the matter, MTV, TLC, Discovery, TechTV etc... give extra opportunities to record the same event in a one week or one day timespan if you don't mind not being the first one on the block to see it live.


It's not a big deal to me either; we just watched it Monday, BUT it was an example for my wife of what Tivo can do that the 721 cannot.


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## Unthinkable (Sep 13, 2002)

msanto said:


> It's not a big deal to me either; we just watched it Monday, BUT it was an example for my wife of what Tivo can do that the 721 cannot.


 I hear you there.  Thank god for east and west coast feeds on the movie channels along with other networks that re-air their shows for situations like this.


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