# DTivo & MPEG-4



## Jim Swain (Aug 24, 2006)

Newbie here. I've read all the talk about how current HD DTivo's won't support MPEG-4, and the limitations of Direct TV's DVR that will support MPEG-4 (No dual buffers, pause points, wishlists, etc). What I don't understand is why there is no talk of Tivo producing a box that WILL support MPEG-4 in the near future. Are there no plans in the works? Was there an agreement that Tivo will not produce such a box?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

DTV is moving away from the Tivo platform and going with their own in house units (R15 and HR20). The agreement extension between DTV and Tivo is to support existing units which I'm sure DTV will try to replace with their own as soon as they can.

Interesting that while DTV and Tivo part ways Comcast and now Cox announce agreements with Tivo. http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-08/tivo-coming-to-cox/


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Basically DTV and TiVo are getting a divorce. Today they are in the process of being legally seperated. While the two entities still have contractual relations for a couple years I don't think anyone expects to ever see a new DirecTV/TiVo DVR. Even if TiVo did make a MPEG4 capable box, DTV would not let them have the rights to include a DTV receiver included with the component.

DTV has moved its DVR business to another News Corp business called NDS (News Corp ownes DTV and NDS). Barring some sort of 180 degree change in how News Corp runs it's business, the TiVo days are in the past. Don't forget, MPEG4 is just for HD in the forseeable future...the SD DirectTiVos will likely be around for many years...

EDIT: Wolf beat me to it. --smeek-


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## ajwillys (Jun 14, 2006)

morgantown said:


> Basically DTV and TiVo are getting a divorce. Today they are in the process of being legally seperated. While the two entities still have contractual relations for a couple years I don't think anyone expects to ever see a new DirecTV/TiVo DVR. Even if TiVo did make a MPEG4 capable box, DTV would not let them have the rights to include a DTV receiver included with the component.
> 
> DTV has moved its DVR business to another News Corp business called NDS (News Corp ownes DTV and NDS). Barring some sort of 180 degree change in how News Corp runs it's business, the TiVo days are in the past. Don't forget, MPEG4 is just for HD in the forseeable future...the SD DirectTiVos will likely be around for many years...
> 
> EDIT: Wolf beat me to it. --smeek-


The DirecTiVo is their child and they are just being 'cordial' with each other til he turns 18


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## Jim Swain (Aug 24, 2006)

If I want to keep my old DTivo and get a new Direct TV HD DVR, will I have to pay two DVR fees a month (one for Tivo and one for Direct TV)?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

No.


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## mjones73 (Jun 20, 2006)

The real bottom line is money, Directv pays Tivo $1 per month per Tivo user where with it's in house unit they get to keep it all. I believe they currently pay Tivo about 1 million a month as a result of this.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

IMO, I don't think $$$ had anything to do with this. More ego and control. Again IMO.
*
EDIT: If it was $$$, why have Comcast and now Cox entered into agreements to provide DVRs to their customers running Tivo software?*

*EDIT II: Oh and I forgot, even with Cox Tivo is to provide it's software running on their EXISTING hardware (SA/Motorola???). So without a box swap.*


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> IMO, I don't think $$$ had anything to do with this. More ego and control. Again IMO.
> *
> EDIT: If it was $$$, why have Comcast and now Cox entered into agreements to provide DVRs to their customers running Tivo software?*
> 
> *EDIT II: Oh and I forgot, even with Cox Tivo is to provide it's software running on their EXISTING hardware (SA/Motorola???). So without a box swap.*


Well some of the reports said that Tivo cut it's deal for half or less the amount that DirecTV was paying them. Not sure how true it is I would also think that we will never actually know exactly what any of the deals are.

As for the hardware, well NONE of these boxes are out yet and I would guess it has to do with getting Tivo software to run on them.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> Well some of the reports said that Tivo cut it's deal for half or less the amount that DirecTV was paying them. Not sure how true it is I would also think that we will never actually know exactly what any of the deals are.
> 
> As for the hardware, well NONE of these boxes are out yet and I would guess it has to do with getting Tivo software to run on them.


The Cox deal is to have Tivo software running on Cox's existing DVRs first half of 2007. Customers can pick if they want the standard Cox software or Tivo software running on the same box. No need for even a tech visit.


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## mjones73 (Jun 20, 2006)

I believe there will be an additional premium for the Tivo software with at least one of the cable companies, thought I read that somewhere.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

mjones73 said:


> I believe there will be an additional premium for the Tivo software with at least one of the cable companies, thought I read that somewhere.


As I've said before. If DTV currently has an offer of an R15 free or a new Tivo for a charge, I'd go with the Tivo. They would then at least give their customers a choice. "If you want a free DVR you get a R15. If you want to pay $100 you can get a Tivo.". Probably the same model Cox and Comcast will be adopting.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> The Cox deal is to have Tivo software running on Cox's existing DVRs first half of 2007. Customers can pick if they want the standard Cox software or Tivo software running on the same box. No need for even a tech visit.


I'm sure that this will be because Tivo has taken however long it has taken to get the software running on that hardware. I wonder if it's running virtualized or as the base OS on it. I also wonder how ungodly slow it's going to b because the DVR software I have seen at friends houses made my slowest SA Tivo look like speedy gonzalas. Don't know if it was a hardware or software problem or a combination of both. I would guess they used the cheapest hardware they could.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

The Tivo software runs on a version of Linux which is supported by pretty much any chipmaker out there. The STi5528 processor in the R15 supports Linux. A Series 2 DTivo only has 48MB (or close to that) of memory and a slow processor so hardware requirements are minimal. The only real work involved in this is the specific drivers needed needed for tuners or other chips in the unit.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> The Tivo software runs on a version of Linux which is supported by pretty much any chipmaker out there. The STi5528 processor in the R15 supports Linux. A Series 2 DTivo only has 48MB (or close to that) of memory and a slow processor so hardware requirements are minimal. The only real work involved in this is the specific drivers needed needed for tuners or other chips in the unit.


Yes i'm quite aware it runs on linux. I would venture to guess that the DVR for the Cable Co's has a lesser processor and less ram then my first Series 1 SA Tivo had. This is by merely seeing how these things work.

If it where merely writing some drivers for it I seriously doubt it would have taken this long for the Comcast version of Tivo.

I guess we will see how it runs once/if we ever actually see one hit the market. My parents have Comcast back in Michigan and there has been no mention of it in some time. When it ships I will get them to have it done to theirs :lol:


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## jym (Aug 15, 2006)

I am about to switch from cable to DirecTV. I just can't take the Moxi any longer. Part of this switch I will be leasing three hr10-250s. That is $1100 up front. I also plan on buying two R10 units. 

So I am going to have a bit of money invested into Tivo equipment with DirecTV. So what is going to happen between Tivo and DirecTV? Some observations.

1) New services such as interactive will only support non-Tivo DVRs. This seems to be happenning.

2) New programming such as local HD over satellite will only support non-Tivo DVRs. This is also happening.

3) What about SundayTicket? I am guessing this is what they could break with Tivo DVRs next. When will this happen? 2007? 2008? 2009? Never? So they will move ST to Mpeg4 and break the Tivo DVRs.

There has to be 10,000s of Tivo equipment out there. Could they really stop all of this from working? What rights does the consumer really have? 

What is the arrangement between Tivo and DirecTV? Would DirecTV get out of this situation by adding a monthly service fee for having a Tivo DVR that makes is prohibative? Then try to blame the issue on Tivo ripping them off on charges?

I have heard the deal between Tivo and DirecTV has been extended until 2010. What does this really mean.

Any help on this would be very appreciated.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

1) Correct.
2) Correct.
3) I would guess NFLST will be MPEG4 by next season.

The contract extension is to support Tivo units until 2010. Means Tivos will still get guide data and possibly the HR10 will get a software update. Other than that I wouldn't count on anything. Could DTV raise Tivo DVR charges, they could do anything. IIRC last January they stated they didn't anticipate any rate increases this year. When March rolled around we all got rate increases.


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