# Question for those who switched to streaming...



## Citivas (Oct 25, 2006)

I see some posts that suggest some of you have made the switch to streaming. A couple questions for those who have:

So far I've tried the DirecTV Now service and the YouTubeTV service and I've researched the other. I'm having trouble finding any that my wife is comfortable with in terms of transition from our current 3 x DVR boxes. Specifically, none seem to have robust Cloud DVR features. For example,

1) Besides the extremely small limit on DVR capacity on DirecTV Now, I can't find any way to manage the DVR recordings other than manual deletion. Given the very small hour limit, this seems even more important than it would have been on the physical DVR's in our house. If you setup a bunch of shows, it's hitting the limit in days. With the regular DVR's I can define how many episode to keep per show, which shows not to delete, etc. Any way to do this on the Cloud DVR? And if not, how do you prevent losing episodes you want to keep in favor of deleting junk you don't need (like yesterday's news), shortly of going in every day and managing it manually?

2) All the services seem to delete programs from your DVR, capacity or not, too soon. We often record an entire season or more of a show that's a low priority then binge watch it in the summer, for example. It seems like we would be missing earlier episodes with DTV Now or it's competitors.

3) Last we checked, we still couldn't get the DTV Now app on several of our TV's and streaming devices. Is it available yet on all the Roku's? What about LG and Samsung TV Smart TV's? I have no interest in buying new streaming devices to use it.

Thanks.


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## WestDC (Feb 9, 2008)

In your #2 statement based on your viewing habbits then streaming service is not for your family as a only choice.


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## Citivas (Oct 25, 2006)

WestDC said:


> In your #2 statement based on your viewing habbits then streaming service is not for your family as a only choice.


That's what I was afraid of. It's disappointing this far into the development of these services and with so much competition that none can match the basic features of old-fashioned services. I just checked my DirecTV Now account, for example, and it's only saved the recording of the last episode of the season of Elementary. It also allows me to still stream from its catalogue the second to last episode. By comparison, I still have 10 episodes to get through on my physical DVR. If I didn't have it, I would be SOL on the other 8 episodes unless I waited at least a season for them to snow up on other streaming services as last years season. And even that will get harder as every major company is going the way of its own subscription services -- so I would have to separately subscribe to the CBS service and soon the Disney/ABC service, etc.

I don't understand why DirecTV cannot at least offer more capacity on the Cloud DVR and the basic abilities that have existed for 20 years of DVR's to limit how many episodes it saves per show, etc.


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## Citivas (Oct 25, 2006)

It's weird. On the latest DirecTV Now interface, I can't even find where my list of season passes is to edit. It shows me upcoming recording and currently saved recordings, but neither is a list of all the shows I subscribed to record. So there's no way to, for example, edit out future recordings of a series I no longer want to use of DVR space until it's at the point where it's recording new episodes of it. That seems ridiculous.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Unfortunately all of the streaming services that offer cloud DVR capability either limit capacity or time. I switched to PSVue a little over 2 years ago. I like the fact that their DVR does not limit how much you can record so you don’t have to worry about managing what is being recorded or ever worry about deleting things. But, they only keep things for up to 28 days. That fits our viewing habits but sounds like it certainly wouldn’t fit yours. Net is currently streaming is simply not for everyone.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Citivas said:


> It's weird. On the latest DirecTV Now interface, I can't even find where my list of season passes is to edit. It shows me upcoming recording and currently saved recordings, but neither is a list of all the shows I subscribed to record. So there's no way to, for example, edit out future recordings of a series I no longer want to use of DVR space until it's at the point where it's recording new episodes of it. That seems ridiculous.


I've never understood why folks that cut the cord want to replace what they had with something so similar. I've been streaming for a couple years and I see no need for a DVR or a Guide to what's on. But I've been on this path since the 90's. All I've ever wanted was what I have today. I use NF, AP, Hulu, Showtime, HBO Now, Starz, CBS All Access and several other streaming video services for series and movies. I have absolutely no need to know what's on tonight or any other night. When that content comes to those streaming services I watch the whole series then go on to the next series I want to watch. No need for a DVR. No need for a remote such as we see on D* equipment. "No need" except for sports. Have to have a DVR and a Guide for that. The remotes the streaming boxes have are not as good for watching sports as D*'s remotes. So I cannot cut the cord completely...yet.

Rich


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

there is a reason that these "streaming" services are relatively much less expensive that the traditional services - they don't offer anywhere close to the same functionality. So if you don't record much (or watch immediately) and similar things the streaming services may be great for you. I also have this issue with several guides that I'd need to go through. Not only would I have to remember what was were but there are times we have no idea what we are going to watch and just go through the guide to find something.
Services such as DirecTV may be expensive but the features aren't yet, duplicated in streaming services.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

I got to have a channel numbers. How do you guys deal with not having channel numbers?


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## onan38 (Jul 17, 2008)

I cancelled Directv Satellite and Uverse internet last week. (Internet was only 18 meg max in my area.) Went with Youtube Tv and Philo week trial had Spectrum 200 meg internet installed last week.So far so good! Still playing around and learning with the 2 services.Youtube will save recordings for 9 months unlimited space and Philo has 20 hrs before it deletes the oldest recording. Both services $56 per month.Youtube Tv will record the actual live program but can replace it with the on demand version the next day or when its released. It is a small adjustment for me so far after having Directv since 1994.Also discovered for example Tbs,Tnt apps will not let you login with Youtube Tv login but i can with my Philo login.So far picture quality has been outstanding on my 1080p tv's and (crossed fingers) No buffering at all so far. I hated leaving Directv but they couldn't get close to the price i am paying now.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I got to have a channel numbers. How do you guys deal with not having channel numbers?


Didn't use them when I had DTV so didn't miss them when I ditched DTV. If you still use/need channel numbers then streaming probably isn't for you yet. Streaming is most definitely a paradigm shift.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

mjwagner said:


> Didn't use them when I had DTV so didn't miss them when I ditched DTV. If you still use/need channel numbers then streaming probably isn't for you yet. Streaming is most definitely a paradigm shift.


Really? Then how did you change the channel? I use them all the time to change the channel and to also go to certain channels in the guide.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

CTJon said:


> there is a reason that these "streaming" services are relatively much less expensive that the traditional services - they don't offer anywhere close to the same functionality. So if you don't record much (or watch immediately) and similar things the streaming services may be great for you. I also have this issue with several guides that I'd need to go through. Not only would I have to remember what was were but there are times we have no idea what we are going to watch and just go through the guide to find something.
> Services such as DirecTV may be expensive but the features aren't yet, duplicated in streaming services.


Interestingly I hope the streaming services don't try to duplicate the traditional cable/sat experience. That is not what I'm after. Certainly lots of folks do want that, which is why you will see offerings like what has been hinted at as their new OTT offering coming from DTV. But for me, my viewing habits changed which drove me to switch to streaming because it more closely matched how I watched tv. Saving money was just an added benefit. I think going forward we will see both paradigms being offered via OTT.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Really? Then how did you change the channel? I use them all the time to change the channel and to also go to certain channels in the guide.


Back when we still had DTV we very rarely watched anything live. We watched what was on our DVR. On the rare occasion that we did watch something live we used the guide. Channel numbers really are loosing relevance. Other than cable/sat remotes most remotes don't even have numbers on them anymore. I use Harmony universal remotes throughout my home and none of them have numbers...


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I got to have a channel numbers. How do you guys deal with not having channel numbers?


More easily than you do. No programming of DVRs, no searching for channels. No worries about equipment for the most part. It does take some time to get used to it, I'll say that. But once you get used to it streaming is just so much easier...and the PQ is better.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Really? Then how did you change the channel? I use them all the time to change the channel and to also go to certain channels in the guide.


I can't believe folks still go thru all that. You don't need a Guide as you think of a Guide. You don't need channels. You don't have to program anything.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> Back when we still had DTV we very rarely watched anything live. We watched what was on our DVR. On the rare occasion that we did watch something live we used the guide. Channel numbers really are loosing relevance. Other than cable/sat remotes most remotes don't even have numbers on them anymore. I use Harmony universal remotes throughout my home and none of them have numbers...


It's so hard to explain this. We must sound like proselytizers.

Rich


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## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Rich said:


> I can't believe folks still go thru all that. You don't need a Guide as you think of a Guide. You don't need channels. You don't have to program anything.
> 
> Rich


I just spent about 20 minutes in the Guide as I do everyday.
I look for names I have not seen before, see what it tells me about the item, then press the record button if I think I am interested. I usually select 1 to 4 programs to record.
Many times I know which channel I want to go to and I type in the number on the remote and it takes me directly to it.
I definitely like the Guide.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

I can't imagine watching DirecTV with a remote that doesn't have channel numbers. Getting from channel 4 (local) to 206 (ESPN) would take forever with an up/down button. Same for navigating within the guide. But yeah on the streaming devices (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Fire etc) there aren't channels or a guide so they aren't necessary there.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jimmie57 said:


> I just spent about 20 minutes in the Guide as I do everyday.
> I look for names I have not seen before, see what it tells me about the item, then press the record button if I think I am interested. I usually select 1 to 4 programs to record.
> Many times I know which channel I want to go to and I type in the number on the remote and it takes me directly to it.
> I definitely like the Guide.


You'd have to try streaming for some time to get that out of your system. Took me a couple years what with having to convince my family that streaming is just a better way to watch TV. Now the DVRs are hardly used, once the Super Bowl is over they'll just sit idle until Spring Training starts up.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> I can't imagine watching DirecTV with a remote that doesn't have channel numbers. Getting from channel 4 (local) to 206 (ESPN) would take forever with an up/down button. Same for navigating within the guide. But yeah on the streaming devices (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Fire etc) there aren't channels or a guide so they aren't necessary there.


I can't see how sports would fit into streaming because of the remotes we use on the streaming boxes and TVs. Without a 30 Second Skip it would be awful. I use ATVs for most of the content we view. The remotes are really good, really easy to use but I just cannot see how watching a baseball or football game would work out. I go back and forth constantly during games and none of the remotes I've tried on streaming boxes work as well as the D* remotes. Streaming box remotes just don't do trickplay as well as D* remotes do. I've had many Rokus, ATVs, FTVs and a Nvidia Shield in my home and none of the remotes are capable of doing what a D* remote can do regarding trickplay. The ATV remotes come the closest with the finger pad but that's not nearly as good as a D* remote, I think.

Rich


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Well I guess I’m old fashion then, I like channel numbers and guides.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Well I guess I'm old fashion then, I like channel numbers and guides.


I get it and I'm not trying to claim that one way is better or worse than another. But as I have said before in this thread and other places, everyone watches tv differently and has a different set of requirements. That is why all of the choices are good. The key is to pick the service(s) that most closely matches your requirements in both the way you watch tv and the programs that you want/need.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

This conversation reminds me of a humorous story. I was recently having a conversation with an acquaintance and they asked about recent shows that I had watched that I thought were good. I started listing off some of the most recent ones that my wife and I had watched, some on network tv most on NetFlix or Amazon. The person looked at me and asked of a specific show that I had mentioned “what channel is that on?” I just looked at them for a moment and just had to say “I have no idea.” and laughed...the question almost seemed alien to me at this point. All I knew was the name of the show and that it was on NetFlix, Amazon, or my DVR...LOL.


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Well I guess I'm old fashion then, I like channel numbers and guides.


Same here.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

mjwagner said:


> I get it and I'm not trying to claim that one way is better or worse than another. But as I have said before in this thread and other places, everyone watches tv differently and has a different set of requirements. That is why all of the choices are good. The key is to pick the service(s) that most closely matches your requirements in both the way you watch tv and the programs that you want/need.


Yes sir, I agree.



MysteryMan said:


> Same here.


:thumbsup:


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Citivas said:


> I see some posts that suggest some of you have made the switch to streaming. A couple questions for those who have:
> 
> So far I've tried the DirecTV Now service and the YouTubeTV service and I've researched the other. I'm having trouble finding any that my wife is comfortable with in terms of transition from our current 3 x DVR boxes. Specifically, none seem to have robust Cloud DVR features.


Yeah, there's some degree of trade-offs with these "streaming cable TV" services vs. traditional cable/sat. The first is whether or not a given service offers all of the channels, including your local channels, that you care about. (Note that none of them, so far, include local PBS stations.) The second trade-off area is with the DVR. They all tend to have some kind of compromised DVR. But then, hey, if you're paying less for something, it's reasonable to expect that it's not as full-featured. Question is whether the trade-offs are worth it to you.

YouTube TV has one of the best cloud DVRs. Unlimited storage, with everything kept for 9 months before it auto-deletes. I believe that CBS is the only channel now on YouTube TV that replaces your cloud DVR recordings with on-demand versions where you can't FF through ads. With everything else, you get a choice between the recorded and the on-demand version (assuming it's available on-demand). But YouTube TV is missing a lot of channels. They focused on making sure the $40 cost covered locals plus sports and news channels, which are really the main reasons to even have cable TV as opposed to just abandoning the whole channel-based TV system for Netflix, basic Hulu, etc. YouTube TV doesn't have the Viacom channels (Paramount, CMT, MTV, VH1, Comedy Central, TV Land) or Discovery channels (HGTV, Food, Discovery, Travel, Investigation Discovery).

Hulu with Live TV may offer the most robust feature set, if you're willing to pay for all their add-ons. Start with their $40 service, which includes the most popular live channels plus Hulu's standard library of on-demand content (which includes quite a lot, with HD picture quality that's better than DirecTV satellite, IMO). Then pay an extra $4 to get rid of ads in the on-demand library. Then pay $15 to upgrade to their enhanced cloud DVR, which expands your storage from the standard 50 hrs to 200 hrs and also allows you to FF through ads in recordings. At that point you're paying $69/mo., which might defeat the whole point of switching. There's no time-based deletion of recordings. I'm pretty sure that if a show you've recorded is included in the on-demand library (which includes all current stuff from ABC, NBC and Fox, plus various past seasons of several cable and broadcast series), then the recording is replaced with the on-demand version, freeing up that space in your DVR. But be warned: the Hulu UI is the most different from a traditional cable box, so you may not like it.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> Well I guess I'm old fashion then, I like channel numbers and guides.


"Guide? We don't need no stinkin' guide." 

One of the advantages over a guide is that you're only looking for the show. It 'airs' when you want it too. No time or channel required.

I see now where Walking Dead is now available on streaming on multiple services. I can go to Netflix and watch any (or all) episodes for the first 8 seasons. No need to wait for one night a week to watch at a specific time. Or worse yet; record a season to have the DVR fail or be 'upgraded' and lose the entire season.

And with my Voice activated search on remotes (or using Alexa), I just have to say "Play Walking Dead" and I'm there.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

trh said:


> One of the advantages over a guide is that you're only looking for the show. It 'airs' when you want it too. No time or channel required.


OK ... tell me how I would catch my favorite programming and when it would be available.
Tonight Magnum PI, Bull and Manifest. Magnum PI and Bull would be on CBS All Access ... Manifest is an NBC program. At what time would I be able to watch each program and where would I subscribe? Late night programming is The Daily Show (Comedy Central) and The Late Show (CBS). How would those programs present themselves? Can I mark them as favorites so they appear on my TV's home page the minute they are available to stream?

There is a similar list of programs each night ... but the weekend adds a problem ... NASCAR. Available from Fox Sports half of the year and NBC Sports the other half. As a satellite subscriber I can use my credentials to watch their streaming apps. What can I get without a satellite/cable subscription?

And then add in local news ... I have a daily "auto tune" timer that turns on my receiver to a local TV station at the beginning of the afternoon news (4pm). The news buffers until I get home (usually 5pm-6pm) and I'll rewind the buffer and watch the last hour or so through the national news which airs at 6:30pm. Without spending an hour clicking through the station's website ... just present me with an auto-play newscast.

As a satellite subscriber, timers catch programs immediately when they are available each day ... including NASCAR and that afternoon newscast. After I have finished watching the news I press the DVR button and see what has recorded. I usually end up watching some of that evening's prime time before the program finishes recording. I may binge a week of The Daily Show or Colbert.

I am not interested in "old" programming. Binging several seasons of an old show isn't what fills my TV screen. There have been some programs where I got interested in a later season and watched cable channel reruns to catch up but that is not how I normally watch TV. That is why I appreciate a "satellite like" delivery system. It delivers "new" programming as it is produced ... including live local news and NASCAR. Streaming?


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

If there was an all-in-one streaming setup for the networks shows I would jump on it. I am at a campground where my Winegard Tra'vler will not work. So I have been researching streaming. I don't want to subscribe to a bunch of them.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

As stated by others, Streaming isn't for everyone. 

But Hulu Live and PS Vue (and others) depending on where you live, have local channels. And if not live, you get their On Demand (except some will require All Access for CBS.) So if I had PS Vue, i could watch or record tonight all those shows you mentioned. But my sister, who lives more than 60 miles from the nearest town, can't receive live NBC or CBS via a streaming service. Satellite or cable only. 

And I've seen PS Vue and other streaming services listed as 'my service provider' when adding channels to my Roku or Fire Tv. So yes, depending on the channel, you can use your streaming service credentials to validate your channels. 

But I also have an OTA device that records to my NAS. I use Plex to schedule my local OTA shows (as backups to my DIRECTV recordings). Similar to DIRECTV series link, I can select episode or All, can pick the channels to record from, first run or all, quality and how many to keep. What is also nice is I can stick a pen drive in my computer and copy the show to watch on my laptop while traveling (and the Plex app is on all our Smart TVs and streaming devices. My daughter living out of state can watch the shows I've recorded or live TV via Plex app also. 

Personal choice and it isn't for everyone.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

When you get to the level of PS Vue you might as well subscribe to satellite.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> When you get to the level of PS Vue you might as well subscribe to satellite.


$55 per month for all but my PBS channel compared to $175 with DIRECTV. Yes, I need internet for Vue, but it isn't required for DIRECTV (but then I have to get a land line).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

One does not need to pay $175 per month for satellite. I don't.
(And there are three channels I watch that are not on the PS Vue lineup.)

Are you getting "all" you got with DIRECTV for only $55?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> One does not need to pay $175 per month for satellite. I don't.
> (And there are three channels I watch that are not on the PS Vue lineup.)
> 
> Are you getting "all" you got with DIRECTV for only $55?


The only channel Vue doesn't have that it in my grandfathered Choice Xtra package is PBS.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

trh said:


> The only channel Vue doesn't have that it in my grandfathered Choice Xtra package is PBS.


Vue is missing a lot more than just PBS compared to Choice Xtra Classic:
A&E*
AccuWeather
ASPiRE
AWE
AXS
BET*
BET Her
Bloomberg
CMT
Comedy.TV
Comedy Central*
El Rey
FETV
FM
Fuse
FYI
Galavision
Great American Country
GSN
History*
INSP
Ion
Justice Central
Lifetime*
Lifetime Movies
Logo
MavTV
MTV*
MTV2
MTV Classic
Newsmax
NHL Network
Nickelodeon*
Nicktoons
Nick Jr
One America News
Ovation
Paramount Network*
Pursuit
Reelz
Revolt
RFD-TV
Sportsman Channel
TeenNick
Tennis Channel
The CW
TVG
TV Land
TV One
Univision
UniMas
Univision Deportes
UP
VH1*
Viceland
Weather Channel
WGN America

* Regularly has shows in the top 25 cable ratings


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

James Long said:


> When you get to the level of PS Vue you might as well subscribe to satellite.


I would disagree with that specific statement. While saving money was not the primary factor for switching from DTV to PSVue, it is $75 per month less than what I was paying for DTV and I have access on all my tvs instead of just 3 of them like I had with DTV.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

KyL416 said:


> Vue is missing a lot more than just PBS compared to Choice Xtra Classic:
> ...list of channels


If those channels are important to you then you certainly should continue to subscribe to DTV. The good news is that for those of us who have no desire to watch and don't watch any of those channels their are good options. As has been said over and over, certainly till I'm tired of typing it, the various OTT services are not for everyone. It is highly dependent on how you watch and what your requirements are. Maybe I should just add a paragraph to my sig to that effect so we can stop beating this poor horse...


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

James Long said:


> OK ... tell me how I would catch my favorite programming and when it would be available.
> Tonight Magnum PI, Bull and Manifest. Magnum PI and Bull would be on CBS All Access ... Bull is an NBC program. At what time would I be able to watch each program and where would I subscribe? Late night programming is The Daily Show (Comedy Central) and The Late Show (CBS). How would those programs present themselves? Can I mark them as favorites so they appear on my TV's home page the minute they are available to stream?
> 
> There is a similar list of programs each night ... but the weekend adds a problem ... NASCAR. Available from Fox Sports half of the year and NBC Sports the other half. As a satellite subscriber I can use my credentials to watch their streaming apps. What can I get without a satellite/cable subscription?
> ...


Bull is not an NBC program it is CBS. I am sure of that because NBC is not shown on Directv where I live; they're in a middle of a dispute. The only two shows that are affected by this for my family is Law and Order SVU and The Good Place.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

My brother in law works for an IPTV/Streaming company and I can tell you from conversations with him that all these companies want to head in that direction.

Three things they really love about it. 

1) The delivery system is being paid for by you and in most cases is not their responsibility if it works or not. Your internet is down it's your ISP's fault. 
So depending on the company they are either making extra cash on the delivery mechanism eg if you use AT&T for internet they make that plus the Directv Now money every month.

BTW Love the fact that no one ever includes their internet costs in their Directv Now costs. After all its probably using 90% of the Bandwidth.

2) Someone mention limited recording storage? Oh yes most already have that covered with extra monthly fee's per GB of cloud space. The great part is that most of that space is shared yet they charge you for it like it's your personal space.
For example if you record all the episodes of Season 8 of "Game of Thrones" do you really think that they save 1 million copies of it for every Cloud DVR customer? Nope they only have enough copies on several servers to cover the predicted demand. You get billed for 5GB of storage but they really only use a few bytes that are written to a file saying what episodes you recorded and what servers have them. So overall they plan on making some sweet money from Cloud DVR's. As you use more storage you can buy more space as your collection grows with back logged shows. Your bill keeps going up each month unless you either do a gut wrenching purge or stop collecting shows.

3) Eventual enhanced advertisement control of the recorded content. In one instance the idea is that network recording etc that are not watched within a set period of time may have their advertisements changed to newer ones. Also at a later date you may not be able to fast forward through the adds. Something YouTube is already doing.

Anyway I know that was long but I am personally sticking to having my satellite system and using a DVR until I am forced to move away from it. I will always love Netflix but for everything else it's DirecTV if not Dish.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

James Long said:


> One does not need to pay $175 per month for satellite. I don't.
> (And there are three channels I watch that are not on the PS Vue lineup.)
> 
> Are you getting "all" you got with DIRECTV for only $55?


No. I don't get a whole list of channels that I never watched. I also get to have it on all my tvs instead of just 3 for no extra money. I also don't have to manage recording conflicts anymore. I also don't get rain fade anymore. I also don't have to clean snow build up off of my dish in the winter anymore. I can also switch OTT providers anytime I want with no equipment to send back or contract commitments to worry about anymore...I could go on but I'm tired of typing...


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

dreadlk said:


> My brother in law works for an IPTV/Streaming company and I can tell you from conversations with him that all these companies want to head in that direction.
> 
> Three things they really love about it.
> 
> ...


No one wants to take your sat service away. Those that need/ want sat should stick with. Those that prefer OTT should go that way. It's all about choice and competition. Increased competition will continue to put price pressure on the providers which is good for all of us consumers.
As to the cost of internet service, it only should be included in the equation if it is something you would not have (or would have to upgrade/change fo OTT) if you would stick with sat. For me, whether I used sat or OTT my internet service cost was exactly the same so it would not be included in the cost calculation. Most people today have internet service whether they use an OTT service or not. If you would have to pay more, for higher speed or due to data caps, then yes the incremental cost for the addition would have to be added to the OTT cost for that comparison. But for many people, me included, that is not the case.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> No one wants to take your sat service away. Those that need/ want sat should stick with. Those that prefer OTT should go that way. It's all about choice and competition. Increased competition will continue to put price pressure on the providers which is good for all of us consumers.
> As to the cost of internet service, it only should be included in the equation if it is something you would not have (or would have to upgrade/change fo OTT) if you would stick with sat. For me, whether I used sat or OTT my internet service cost was exactly the same so it would not be included in the cost calculation. Most people today have internet service whether they use an OTT service or not. If you would have to pay more, for higher speed or due to data caps, then yes the incremental cost for the addition would have to be added to the OTT cost for that comparison. But for many people, me included, that is not the case.


You can pretty much get by with a 5mb connection for just general browsing and playing YouTube content. Once you get into streaming and multiple TV's in the house showing 1080P or higher content at the same time you then have to start looking at a 50mb or more ISP connection.
That adds a lot to your internet bill and assumes that your not eventually penalized further when net neutrality goes up in smoke.

I don't agree about them moving away from satellite. A lot of moves that Directv has made of late give me the feeling that they are probably going to phase it out over the long term. I think Directv Now is where they ultimately plan on settling down. It could easily be a lot more revenue on the bottom line in 5-10 years.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mjwagner said:


> No. I don't get a whole list of channels that I never watched. I also get to have it on all my tvs instead of just 3 for no extra money. I also don't have to manage recording conflicts anymore. I also don't get rain fade anymore. I also don't have to clean snow build up off of my dish in the winter anymore. I can also switch OTT providers anytime I want with no equipment to send back or contract commitments to worry about anymore...I could go on but I'm tired of typing...


Yes, you could ramble on without answering any of the questions I put forth in my detailed post. But that seems to be the norm.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

KyL416 said:


> Vue is missing a lot more than just PBS compared to Choice Xtra Classic:
> A&E*
> AccuWeather
> ASPiRE
> ...


Wow, no wonder it is cheaper than cable/satellite. It is missing a TON of channels! Comparing it with Directv is like comparing a moped to a Mercedes. Sure, you can get around town on the moped and it costs far less to run, but you can't hop onto the interstate and go to the next city 30 miles away, let alone cross country.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Sorry. I need to rephrase my statement. The only channel we can't get on Vue that we watch on DIRECTV is PBS.

The channels below are not on our Custom list (e.g. don't show up in our guide). So these are channels we get but don't watch. YMMV.



KyL416 said:


> Vue is missing a lot more than just PBS compared to Choice Xtra Classic:
> A&E*
> AccuWeather
> ASPiRE
> ...





KyL416 said:


> Vue is missing a lot more than just PBS compared to Choice Xtra Classic:
> A&E*
> AccuWeather
> ASPiRE
> ...


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dreadlk said:


> For example if you record all the episodes of Season 8 of "Game of Thrones" do you really think that they save 1 million copies of it for every Cloud DVR customer? Nope they only have enough copies on several servers to cover the predicted demand. You get billed for 5GB of storage but they really only use a few bytes that are written to a file saying what episodes you recorded and what servers have them. So overall they plan on making some sweet money from Cloud DVR's. As you use more storage you can buy more space as your collection grows with back logged shows. Your bill keeps going up each month unless you either do a gut wrenching purge or stop collecting shows.


Here is where people going to streaming need to change their mind-set (possibly). Why would you even record GOT? On HBO you go to GOT and you have every shown episode from all 7 seasons available to watch with one click.

So Game of Thrones is a bad example.

But yes, there are others that you will want to record so it will have to modify your watching behavior based on what what ever service you have. Whether it is the amount of storage space or the time limit. I used to record shows based on seasons and then binge-watch. Then I had 4 HR24s fail in a 3-4 month window and I lost all those shows and the season passes. As a result, we pretty much record shows and then watch within a week. But with Netflix and Amazon Prime, I'm going back to my binge-watching routine.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

James Long said:


> Yes, you could ramble on without answering any of the questions I put forth in my detailed post. But that seems to be the norm.


You asked - "Are you getting "all" you got with DIRECTV for only $55?"...I answered.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Wow, no wonder it is cheaper than cable/satellite. It is missing a TON of channels! Comparing it with Directv is like comparing a moped to a Mercedes. Sure, you can get around town on the moped and it costs far less to run, but you can't hop onto the interstate and go to the next city 30 miles away, let alone cross country.


Wow, I get to pay extra for a bunch of crap I don't need, want, or ever watch...where do I sign up...LOL!


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## VaJim (Jul 27, 2006)

As a part of the ‘senior group’ (65+ older older) We switched from DTV to SlingTV about 10 months ago. I was surprised how little we missed DTV. This is probably due to the fact that we didn’t watch most of the channels we were paying for. At first I missed the channel layout but got used to it. Channels numbers may be important when dealing with locals but with the streaming channels the names are listed in alphabetical order. SlingTV gives you the option of a grid or channel layout on their guide. For the most part, we now spend probably 70% of our viewing time on the locals. As far as the DVR, SlingTV offers a cloud DVR service ($5 extra) which I believe provides 50 hours of recording (?) Plenty for us. Access to the DVR is wherever you login to your account. The Blue package (?) allows more than one logins at the same time.

The other thing we like about SlingTV is that it allows you to bring your locals (using a OTA) into the same viewing area as their streaming channels without having to change any signal input. A big plus for my wife.


Bottom line, you can get used to almost anything. We left DTV because the bill got out of control, especially when you add NFLST, which BTW there are ‘other’ ways to watch NFL games live. But the best part of SlingTV for us is the cost. With DTV my bill was over $150 per month, with SlingTV it's $45, and I didn't die.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

trh said:


> "Guide? We don't need no stinkin' guide."
> 
> One of the advantages over a guide is that you're only looking for the show. It 'airs' when you want it too. No time or channel required.
> 
> ...


Yup, no downside to streaming that I can see. This fixation with channels is funny. And sad.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

reubenray said:


> If there was an all-in-one streaming setup for the networks shows I would jump on it. I am at a campground where my Winegard Tra'vler will not work. So I have been researching streaming. *I don't want to subscribe to a bunch of them.*


You don't have to. You can easily subscribe to one service at a time. NF or AP will give you so much content you won't believe it. Add Hulu to the mix and you can even watch a lot of programs right after they are broadcast. Once you get into this you'll see what some of us are talking about.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> When you get to the level of PS Vue you might as well subscribe to satellite.


Point I've been trying to make. You don't need to replace your cable or sat service, these are for folks that can't get past the cable paradigm. If I wasn't obsessed with sports I wouldn't bother with a cable replacement service or sub to D*.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> One does not need to pay $175 per month for satellite. I don't.
> (And there are three channels I watch that are not on the PS Vue lineup.)
> 
> Are you getting "all" you got with DIRECTV for only $55?


For a decent package you certainly have to pay about that much. Don't forget the way D* nickels and dimes us with equipment charges. That adds up quickly. My monthly is presently $43. That includes $28 for four DVRs and $25 a month for the top tier of the PP. Figures don't match up? That's because D* is so desperate to hang on to subs that they gave me credits that lowered my bill from over $175 a month to $43.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> Vue is missing a lot more than just PBS compared to Choice Xtra Classic:
> A&E*
> AccuWeather
> ASPiRE
> ...


I get all these channels and I don't watch any of them.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> If those channels are important to you then you certainly should continue to subscribe to DTV. The good news is that for those of us who have no desire to watch and don't watch any of those channels their are good options. As has been said over and over, certainly till I'm tired of typing it, the various OTT services are not for everyone. It is highly dependent on how you watch and what your requirements are. Maybe I should just add a paragraph to my sig to that effect so we can stop beating this poor horse...


This is like the 4K debate. You gotta have it to appreciate it. Until folks take some time streaming all we can do is express our opinions, which vary. It took me about two years to get acclimated to streaming. It takes time. I had a 4K set sitting in the MB unused for the most part because I didn't "get" what I was seeing for months after I purchased it. No more debates on 4K. Folks took the time to appreciate it.

Take some time, folks. Stream. Don't knock what we're saying until you give it a good try, please.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bjdotson said:


> Bull is not an NBC program it is CBS. I am sure of that because NBC is not shown on Directv where I live; they're in a middle of a dispute. The only two shows that are affected by this for my family is Law and Order SVU and The Good Place.


I have not watched SVU for a couple seasons, possibly three seasons. Always a favorite and I look forward to streaming those seasons in a massive binge. Just as I have done since the late 80's when I started running multiple VCRs to capture all the content so I could do something I didn't have a word for, Binge. I've been binging on series since then. I was ready for streaming. I'm doing the same thing I did back then but it's much easier.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> No one wants to take your sat service away. Those that need/ want sat should stick with. Those that prefer OTT should go that way. It's all about choice and competition. Increased competition will continue to put price pressure on the providers which is good for all of us consumers.
> As to the cost of internet service, it only should be included in the equation if it is something you would not have (or would have to upgrade/change fo OTT) if you would stick with sat. For me, whether I used sat or OTT my internet service cost was exactly the same so it would not be included in the cost calculation. Most people today have internet service whether they use an OTT service or not. If you would have to pay more, for higher speed or due to data caps, then yes the incremental cost for the addition would have to be added to the OTT cost for that comparison. But for many people, me included, that is not the case.


Agreed. We see the Internet service as a necessity. Can't imagine not having it.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> Wow, I get to pay extra for a bunch of crap I don't need, want, or ever watch...where do I sign up...LOL!


Just like the 4K debate. Same players.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

VaJim said:


> As a part of the 'senior group' (65+ older older) We switched from DTV to SlingTV about 10 months ago. I was surprised how little we missed DTV. This is probably due to the fact that we didn't watch most of the channels we were paying for. At first I missed the channel layout but got used to it. Channels numbers may be important when dealing with locals but with the streaming channels the names are listed in alphabetical order. SlingTV gives you the option of a grid or channel layout on their guide. For the most part, we now spend probably 70% of our viewing time on the locals. As far as the DVR, SlingTV offers a cloud DVR service ($5 extra) which I believe provides 50 hours of recording (?) Plenty for us. Access to the DVR is wherever you login to your account. The Blue package (?) allows more than one logins at the same time.
> 
> The other thing we like about SlingTV is that it allows you to bring your locals (using a OTA) into the same viewing area as their streaming channels without having to change any signal input. A big plus for my wife.
> 
> Bottom line, you can get used to almost anything. We left DTV because the bill got out of control, especially when you add NFLST, which BTW there are 'other' ways to watch NFL games live. But the best part of SlingTV for us is the cost. With DTV my bill was over $150 per month, with SlingTV it's $45, and I didn't die.


I know folks that use Sling. Never heard any complaints about the service. I know lots of folks that have D*. I have heard some complaints about that service...how's that for an understatement?

Rich


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rich said:


> For a decent package you certainly have to pay about that much. Don't forget the way D* nickels and dimes us with equipment charges. That adds up quickly. My monthly is presently $43. That includes $28 for four DVRs and $25 a month for the top tier of the PP. Figures don't match up? That's because D* is so desperate to hang on to subs that they gave me credits that lowered my bill from over $175 a month to $43.


So your reality is that you are paying $43 per month ... not $55 or $175.

The more I look at the PS Vue channel list the more I see missing. Sure, I don't watch all of the hundreds of channels in my subscription package. But several I do watch are missing from PS Vue - and other streaming services.

I am still wondering how current day content would present itself via streaming - other than seeing "not found" when looking for something I want to watch.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Rich said:


> For a decent package you certainly have to pay about that much. Don't forget the way D* nickels and dimes us with equipment charges. That adds up quickly. My monthly is presently $43. That includes $28 for four DVRs and $25 a month for the top tier of the PP. Figures don't match up? That's because D* is so desperate to hang on to subs that they gave me credits that lowered my bill from over $175 a month to $43.
> 
> Rich


When I finally cancelled DTV I had a credit balance on my account because I got them to give me a refund for NFL ST. After about a month I called them to get them to refund the balance to me. They did everything they could to get me back. They actually got down to $5 per month for the top tier package and all new 4k capable equipment for all tvs in my house. I actually thought the guy was going to freak out when I said no. I had to explain to him that it had very little to do with the money and that it was really that the DTV viewing experience just wasn't what I was after anymore. He definitely did not get it.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

b4pjoe said:


> I can't imagine watching DirecTV with a remote that doesn't have channel numbers. Getting from channel 4 (local) to 206 (ESPN) would take forever with an up/down button. Same for navigating within the guide. But yeah on the streaming devices (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Fire etc) there aren't channels or a guide so they aren't necessary there.


Using the Guide, it's two pushes of channel up to get from my locals to 206. A nice custom guide is the key. But I do use the keypad sometimes.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> I am still wondering how current day content would present itself via streaming - other than seeing "not found" when looking for something I want to watch.


For PS Vue live content, there is a Guide. See below.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> So your reality is that you are paying $43 per month ... not $55 or $175.
> 
> The more I look at the PS Vue channel list the more I see missing. Sure, I don't watch all of the hundreds of channels in my subscription package. But several I do watch are missing from PS Vue - and other streaming services.
> 
> I am still wondering how current day content would present itself via streaming - other than seeing "not found" when looking for something I want to watch.


Folks keep lumping the cable replacement services in with the streaming video services, they are two very different things. Yes, you will not see some channels you get now on CRSs (Slingbox, D*Now, PSVue). But you will see most content from those channels on the streaming video services (NF, AP, Hulu, etc), if that content fits into the SVSs parameters.

If you want to see shows right after they are broadcast there are some SVSs that have that option. Hulu has some series that show up on the service as they are aired. I think Starz and Showtime do that too. I know HBO does that using HBO Now. I never use that option, I want the whole season.

I just reread the post you referred to. I think I was clear on what my monthly bill is now. And how it got there.

Rich


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

Bottom line is that there isn't 1 solution for everyone. All depends upon what you watch and how and when you watch it. A question for ?? if you could get DirecTv (or a regular cable service) for the same price you are getting for the streaming service which would you do?


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

CTJon said:


> Bottom line is that there isn't 1 solution for everyone. All depends upon what you watch and how and when you watch it. A question for ?? if you could get DirecTv (or a regular cable service) for the same price you are getting for the streaming service which would you do?


No. See my story a couple of posts back. I now have everything I need integrated in 1 STB on one main interface. NetFlix, Amazon Prime, OTA (via HDHomeRun), PSVue, DisneyNow and PBS Kids Video (for the grand kids), and various other apps. And I have it available on every tv in the house. Right now their is no sat or cable co that can deliver the experience I have and have gotten used to.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> When I finally cancelled DTV I had a credit balance on my account because I got them to give me a refund for NFL ST. After about a month I called them to get them to refund the balance to me. They did everything they could to get me back. They actually got down to $5 per month for the top tier package and all new 4k capable equipment for all tvs in my house. I actually thought the guy was going to freak out when I said no. I had to explain to him that it had very little to do with the money and that it was really that the DTV viewing experience just wasn't what I was after anymore. He definitely did not get it.


I got all those credits by just calling and asking a question that had nothing to do with credits or cancelling. Keeping D* just for sports suddenly became the answer to my problems. Reading what you wrote I can't help but think they're panicking.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

CTJon said:


> Bottom line is that there isn't 1 solution for everyone. All depends upon what you watch and how and when you watch it. A question for ?? if you could get DirecTv (or a regular cable service) for the same price you are getting for the streaming service which would you do?


Having my bill lowered to next to nothing worked for me. I'm still here.

Rich


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

mjwagner said:


> No. See my story a couple of posts back. I now have everything I need integrated in 1 STB on one main interface. NetFlix, Amazon Prime, OTA (via HDHomeRun), PSVue, DisneyNow and PBS Kids Video (for the grand kids), and various other apps. And I have it available on every tv in the house. Right now their is no sat or cable co that can deliver the experience I have and have gotten used to.


To do all of this you must have a pretty good size data package plus the speed to use it. This has to cost a pretty pennie also. A lot of us do not have those options. I have been streaming more due to I am traveling in my motorhome where sometimes I cannot get a satellite signal. My Directv package for now is discounted. These discounts run out in February. If I don't get more discounts I may have to check into streaming more. But where I live at there are not many internet options.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

reubenray said:


> To do all of this you must have a pretty good size data package plus the speed to use it. This has to cost a pretty pennie also. A lot of us do not have those options. I have been streaming more due to I am traveling in my motorhome where sometimes I cannot get a satellite signal. My Directv package for now is discounted. These discounts run out in February. If I don't get more discounts I may have to check into streaming more. But where I live at there are not many internet options.


Thankfully I have a 50Mdown/5Mup plan with no data caps for $64.95 per month. Same plan I had before I switched to all streaming. And yes, having reliable reasonably priced internet access is a requirement to be able to switch to all streaming. 50Mdown is honestly more than you need for streaming but it's nice to have the extra head room. Minimum for HD is around 10 (although you could probably get by with 5), for 4k at least 25.


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## Microphone (Jan 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> I got all those credits by just calling and asking a question that had nothing to do with credits or cancelling. Keeping D* just for sports suddenly became the answer to my problems. Reading what you wrote I can't help but think they're panicking.
> 
> Rich


I'm sorry if you mentioned this before Rich, can I ask what sports/package do you have and how did you do it?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Microphone said:


> I'm sorry if you mentioned this before Rich, can I ask what sports/package do you have and how did you do it?


I have no idea which package I have. Let me check...Good lord! I cannot get into the D* site. I'll be back.

Rich


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

mjwagner said:


> Thankfully I have a 50Mdown/5Mup plan with no data caps for $64.95 per month. Same plan I had before I switched to all streaming. And yes, having reliable reasonably priced internet access is a requirement to be able to switch to all streaming. 50Mdown is honestly more than you need for streaming but it's nice to have the extra head room. Minimum for HD is around 10 (although you could probably get by with 5), for 4k at least 25.


This is about what I am paying for my Directv package. Plus I have a wireless unlimited plan for around $23. But my speed is not even close to what you have. I use this plan while traveling and at home. There are no other options at the RV resort I live at.


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## stoutman (Feb 8, 2003)

I switched after 21 years with Directv to Directv Now. I pay $28 with $50 off due to being an original subscriber and having AT&T unlimited. Can share my subscription with daughter in NYC. It is not as robust as my old Directv, but I get HBO, Showtime and all my sports and non sports channels. Full cable tv for 2 homes at $28. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VaJim (Jul 27, 2006)

I considered DirecTV Now. The drawback was the locals. With DirecTV Now (for our area) the locals consist of 3 channels, basically the major networks. With a OTA I get 28 channels. Also with DirecTV Now all viewing is streamed. For us spending most of the time on the locals, this didn’t make much sense.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

reubenray said:


> This is about what I am paying for my Directv package. Plus I have a wireless unlimited plan for around $23. But my speed is not even close to what you have. I use this plan while traveling and at home. There are no other options at the RV resort I live at.


Didn't know you lived in such a place. Must be nice. Do they have an owners' association?

Rich


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

Rich said:


> Didn't know you lived in such a place. Must be nice. Do they have an owners' association?
> 
> Rich


Yes and no. We pay HOA fees which covers the lawn care, wifi, trash, water and sewer. But the majority of the lots are still owner owned. They are in the process of adding 100 more lots. Our lot has a spot for our motorhome plus we have a 736 sf house. We have access to a fully stocked fitness center, pool, hot tub, pickle ball courts and clubhouse. But we do not have a lot of say so about what happens. We are about 8 miles from the Gulf coast of Alabama.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

reubenray said:


> Yes and no. We pay HOA fees which covers the lawn care, wifi, trash, water and sewer. But the majority of the lots are still owner owned. They are in the process of adding 100 more lots. Our lot has a spot for our motorhome plus we have a 736 sf house. We have access to a fully stocked fitness center, pool, hot tub, pickle ball courts and clubhouse. But we do not have a lot of say so about what happens. We are about 8 miles from the Gulf coast of Alabama.


Reason I asked was I had a friend and mentor who bought a condo in Fort Myers. He planned on moving there when he retired. After he bought the condo he found out Bear wasn't welcome. Bear was an aptly named dog, a huge mutt. My friend could not bear the thought of life without Bear and attacked the rule by getting elected president of the HOA. First thing he did was get rid of the pet rule. Bear was welcome. My friend was a rather Machiavellian character, liked getting his way. My friend was lauded by the condo owners for all the things he changed in the way the HOA was run. Could you do this? Do the other owners complain about the Internet service they get? Are they ready to revolt?

Just a thought while killing time.

Rich


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

There's not much a HOA can do about internet service options, that's all regulated higher up in the chain on the township, state and/or federal level depending on the area. So they're at the mercy of who's willing to serve their area and what services they offer.

Thanks to some crappy franchise terms in many areas, cable companies are free to cherrypick where they do and do not service in their franchise area and demand thousands of dollars per 100 feet upfront to expand the run to a new block, if they're willing to expand at all. As for telcos, they are under no obligation to provide fiber or even decent DSL in many areas.

Like here in PA, the bare minimum telcos have to offer to comply with the state's "universal broadband" rollout is 1 Mbps, while Verizon has halted the expansion of FiOS and refuses to provide anything faster than 3 Mbps to anyone on remote terminals in their copper only areas, so only people within 2000 feet of a central office can get 12 Mbps+ DSL speeds, even though there's nothing physical preventing Verizon from upping the speeds for those on remote terminals. And even if you are served by a cable company, there's no guarantee that the system offers 100 Mbps+ speeds, or any internet at all, as is in the case of some hopefully soon to be former Charter systems in upstate NY that are still running on a 450 MHz network, or some Optimum systems on Long Island where Cablevision/Altice hasn't run fiber to the barrier islands so they're still served by the old 400 MHz "Rainbow Spectrum" analog network via a microwave link.


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

I’d love to drop D* altogether and go all streaming but one of the things that’s keeping me is partly one of the reasons why I want to leave. 

I would miss the sports programming in 4K. I know the channels are part time and they’re adding more, slowly. But I’m a sports junkie and that would be a big loss. That being said, over two years I’ve had this C61K and it’s still a piece of garbage. At least once a week I have to do hard reset to get the picture back. I can’t stand this thing.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

Fubo TV is now getting a good chunk of the 4K live sports that DirecTV has. EPL games, NLCS, and some college football as of right now.


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## bjdotson (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm pretty lucky; my town is laying glass fiber with the intent of doing the whole town. I live in an area that is already done. The way it works, I pay $37 dollars for access to the fiber line and can choose among 5 or 6 private ISPs for the internet service. The one I chose is $30, so for $67 dollars a month I have 250 up and 250 down. I could double that $30 and get a gig both ways. They are two years away from having the whole town having access (about 75,000 People)


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

The HOA at a RV Resort is different than what regular neighborhoods are. At our Resort there is a main trunk line brought in and the signal is spread by wifi to the Resort. This services the Owner's as well as the traveling visitors. There are no options for wired internet. A lot of the Owner's depend on their personal hotspots for faster speed surfing. Some of the owners has setup up router setups to provide security for themselves. The wifi speed is capped at 5 mbps. The Owners will be having a HOA meeting with the Resort Owner next week and this will be one of the main topics to discuss.


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

AngryManMLS said:


> Fubo TV is now getting a good chunk of the 4K live sports that DirecTV has. EPL games, NLCS, and some college football as of right now.


I'm curious to see what the streaming quality is like for their first 4K EPL match tomorrow kicking off with Chelsea-Man U. I've been quite happy with the PQ of those matches on 106 & 105, and I've seen most of them. If they could only fix the dropout issue.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

reubenray said:


> The HOA at a RV Resort is different than what regular neighborhoods are. At our Resort there is a main trunk line brought in and the signal is spread by wifi to the Resort. This services the Owner's as well as the traveling visitors. There are no options for wired internet. A lot of the Owner's depend on their personal hotspots for faster speed surfing. Some of the owners has setup up router setups to provide security for themselves. The wifi speed is capped at 5 mbps. The Owners will be having a HOA meeting with the Resort Owner next week and this will be one of the main topics to discuss.


My friend was told by the HOA there was no way Bear was gonna live there no matter what he did. Absolutely no way. That line of thought went south when he was elected.

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

I'm late joining this thread because I just discovered it yesterday while I was doing research on options for replacing DirecTV due to a now-resolved billing dispute that's left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm still doing my research and I'm not going to rush into anything. 

One comment I've seen in the thread is how you don't get the same number of channels you do from DirecTV (or similar services) if you switch to Vue, Sling, etc. I'm not sure that matters for many people. Last weekend I stopped by my father's house to return some tools I'd borrowed and he gave me a copy of Consumer Reports from this past August because it has an article about cord-cutting. They don't recommend a particular service, but they offered a piece of advice that I think made a heck of a lot of sense: Before doing your research, make a list of what channels you watch regularly (and on my list I also noted what we usually watch on those channels). I did that and I find it a little eye-opening because it underscores just how many channels we really do not watch—or, put differently, how few of the many channels we get we do watch. I'm sure I'm like many people in that I selected our DirecTV package in large part based on which package had certain channels I didn't want to do without, and of course that means you get a ton of things you seldom or never watch. It's been interesting to look at the other options to see which of the ones we do watch are and are not available from them. 

When I assess the costs, I don't factor the Internet service into the TV cost because we'd maintain our Internet service either way. So for us, some of the CRS options look like they'd be substantially cheaper than our DirecTV service is now, though the equation is complicated a little because in order to watch baseball we would have to subscribe to MLB.tv and a VPN or similar service due to the Nationals games not being available for streaming locally (no doubt spreading these costs over the six-month MLB season would show it's not that much). On the flip side, startup costs would be higher because we would need to replace our existing Apple TV device with either newer ones (at least two, for two TVs) or similar devices like Rokus or whatever. I have to say the cloud-based DVR idea is somewhat appealing because it was a failed DVR hard drive that led to my dispute with DirecTV, though I note the comments in this thread about cloud capacity or storage duration limits (thank you for those points, as my wife sometimes seems to want to use the DVR as long-term storage). 

The hard part about this is that every option has pluses and minuses. I have not finished my research (have not looked at Hulu with live TV, among other things), but so far Vue looks more promising than Sling because of the inclusion of local channels, which makes recording easier, plus there are fewer add-on fees (Sling charges extra for the cloud DVR). (Edited to add: YouTube TV isn't available where I live, so I haven't explored that beyond discovering their site says it's unavailable.)

A query: My wife watches a lot of PBS. I see on our local affiliate WETA's website that there is a PBS app for cord-cutters. Has anyone used it? If so, any comments about it? Thanks in advance.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> One comment I've seen in the thread is how you don't get the same number of channels you do from DirecTV (or similar services) if you switch to Vue, Sling, etc. I'm not sure that matters for many people.
> 
> A query: My wife watches a lot of PBS. I see on our local affiliate WETA's website that there is a PBS app for cord-cutters. Has anyone used it? If so, any comments about it? Thanks in advance.


Two comments: When I did my review of Vue vs my DIRECTV, the only channels we have programmed into our custom view we wouldn't get on Vue was PBS. DIRECTV provides us two PBS channels (GA and NE Florida). I can only get the NE Florida via OTA.

I've used the PBS app on Roku and Fire TVs. This may vary by PBS station, but I could only watch about 80% of our shows free. If I wanted to watch others (e.g. Poldark), I have to be a contributor to our station. $60 per year. So you'll want to research your local PBS station.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

trh said:


> Two comments: When I did my review of Vue vs my DIRECTV, the only channels we have programmed into our custom view we wouldn't get on Vue was PBS. DIRECTV provides us two PBS channels (GA and NE Florida). I can only get the NE Florida via OTA.
> 
> I've used the PBS app on Roku and Fire TVs. This may vary by PBS station, but I could only watch about 80% of our shows free. If I wanted to watch others (e.g. Poldark), I have to be a contributor to our station. $60 per year. So you'll want to research your local PBS station.


Thanks. My wife contributes to PBS (not sure to which station since we get two of them here), so that's not a huge issue. I might consider one of the devices that acts as a DVR for the antenna and then streams it to your Apple TV or similar. Might be the most straightforward option for her.

In some ways I find myself thinking FIOS might be the best option in terms of the Wife Acceptance Factor because it would be the most similar to what we have (although the way they number the channels is very annoying in terms of HD channels having different numbers from the low-def channels).


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

1995hoo said:


> Thanks. My wife contributes to PBS (not sure to which station since we get two of them here), so that's not a huge issue. I might consider one of the devices that acts as a DVR for the antenna and then streams it to your Apple TV or similar. Might be the most straightforward option for her.


If you're a PBS contributor, you most likely qualify for PBS Passport, which unlocks a lot of additional streaming content in the PBS app. Here in Nashville, PBS Passport requires a minimum $60 annual or $5 monthly contribution.

There's quite a bit of content that is available to stream for free by anyone in the PBS app. For scripted (fictional) dramas, such as Masterpiece, usually only the most recent episode is available for free. For other major series, such as Nature, Nova, and American Experience, maybe the past 2-3 episodes are free, plus a rotating selection of multiple earlier episodes from the past couple of years. For Frontline, all available episodes (going back a few years) are free. For PBS News Hour and Washington Week, at least the past few episodes are free. But if you have PBS Passport, it unlocks access to all those past episodes for series (Masterpiece, Nature, Nova, American Experience, etc.) that otherwise aren't available for free. If you have PBS Passport, there's probably no reason to use a DVR to record stuff from your local PBS station, because it's all there any time you want it via the PBS app.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

That's great info to have. Thanks!


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> I am still wondering how current day content would present itself via streaming - other than seeing "not found" when looking for something I want to watch.


Here's how it works on Apple TV if you use the "TV" app from Apple. The TV app is a handy central hub for content from a whole lot of popular sources -- pretty much everything except Netflix (which, admittedly, is a big omission, but that's on Netflix, not Apple). Apple offers several curated lists of "Trending," "Hot," and "Favorite" TV series and movies, with titles commingled together from Hulu, HBO, Showtime, Starz, Prime Video, PBS, The CW, CBS All Access, Tubi TV, and a range of cable channels apps (e.g. TBS, FX, SyFy, etc.).

Most importantly, at the top of the TV app is your "Up Next" watchlist, which is a universal queue that spans all the apps that are compatible with the TV app. You can manually add series and movies to Up Next, either by browsing through the TV app or from the results screen of a Siri voice search. Series will also be automatically added to Up Next if you begin watching them in a supported app. E.g: Stumble across the series The First in the Hulu app, watch episode 1, and then that series will automatically be added to Up Next, with episode 2 showing there.

When new episodes of a series become available within a supported app, that typically gets reflected pretty quickly in the Up Next queue in the TV app. So, on Sundays, I will see the new episodes of original series from Showtime and HBO that I've yet to watch automatically appear in Up Next.

As you may know, primetime content from ABC, NBC and Fox is available a few hours later (the following calendar day) on Hulu.

PS Vue is the first of the streaming cable-replacement services that is compatible with the TV app. Perhaps others will follow suit.

I don't subscribe to any of the cable-replacement services. Rather, I watch streaming on-demand sources (Netflix, Hulu, Showtime, HBO, YouTube, Tubi TV, CBSN, NBC News, etc.) and free OTA TV (via the Channels app) all on my Apple TV. The Up Next queue gives me a convenient way to keep up with the latest episodes of the series I watch, with the major exception of Netflix. So I maintain a separate watchlist within the Netflix app itself. Hopefully Netflix decides to play nice with the TV app. They already allow their stuff to integrate into the UI on cable boxes like Comcast's X1, so I don't see why that won't do the same with Apple devices (where a significant percentage of Netflix viewing takes place).

If you were to ditch traditional satellite or cable TV and not replace it with a cable-replacement streaming service (e.g. DirecTV Now, YouTube TV, PS Vue), then you would not get immediate access to the latest episodes of series on basic cable channels like TBS, TNT, HGTV, Paramount Network, etc. (There are a few basic cable series -- such as those on Disney-owned Freeform -- that appear next-day on Hulu, but those are exceptions to the rule. Perhaps after Disney completes their Fox acquisition, which will give Disney majority ownership of Hulu, series on FX and FXX will also appear next-day on Hulu.) Instead, you would need to wait a few months, possibly as long as a year, for the latest season of a basic cable series to show up on either Netflix, Hulu, or Prime Video. Sports, of course, is a whole other ballgame. It's what's keeping linear-channel cable and broadcast TV afloat. There's just a ton of sports that you can't watch without a cable TV subscription (or a cable-replacement service). If and when that changes, that will mark the tipping point that begins the end of the traditional linear channel TV system toward the OTT app-based streaming TV system.

Back when I had satellite TV, I tended to mainly watch premium (Showtime, HBO) and broadcast (ABC, Fox, PBS, NBC, CBS) channels. I only sometimes watched stuff on basic cable channels, and even then, it wasn't continuing series that I was hooked on, it was just some HGTV here, some CNN there. Meanwhile, I was finding more and more stuff exclusive to streaming services like Netflix that I cared about. So once Showtime and HBO became available as standalone streaming services, I really had little use for a traditional cable package any more. I much prefer this new way of accessing TV. The fact that I'm paying less money per month is a bonus.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Thank you for the details.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

That is the great thing about streaming. Their is not a single way to do what you want. You get to design your own experience. For some (like me) this is great. Others won't like it but as I've said many times, the good news is you get to choose. You can use a canned approach like what has been described for ATV. The new Oreo UI on Android streamers like the Nvidia Shield is going with a similar approach. I use something called Trakt and an app called Series Guide which integrates with Trakt and displays a dashboard of Recent and Upcoming episodes of shows we regularly watch and also keeps track of what we have already watched.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

mjwagner said:


> That is the great thing about streaming. Their is not a single way to do what you want. You get to design your own experience. For some (like me) this is great. Others won't like it but as I've said many times, the good news is you get to choose. You can use a canned approach like what has been described for ATV. The new Oreo UI on Android streamers like the Nvidia Shield is going with a similar approach. I use something called Trakt and an app called Series Guide which integrates with Trakt and displays a dashboard of Recent and Upcoming episodes of shows we regularly watch and also keeps track of what we have already watched.


Does series guide integrate with the streaming apps so you can watch shows through it?


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

I honestly don’t know since I don’t use it that way. I only use it to keep track of shows that we watch that aren’t on either NetFlix or Amazon Prime. Most shows from those sources drop an entire season at once and keep track of the episodes you have already watched so no need for something like Series Guide.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> That is the great thing about streaming. *Their is not a single way to do what you want.* You get to design your own experience. For some (like me) this is great. Others won't like it but as I've said many times, the good news is you get to choose. You can use a canned approach like what has been described for ATV. The new Oreo UI on Android streamers like the Nvidia Shield is going with a similar approach. I use something called Trakt and an app called Series Guide which integrates with Trakt and displays a dashboard of Recent and Upcoming episodes of shows we regularly watch and also keeps track of what we have already watched.


Right! Just look at how you and I stream. Very differently. I have no CRS (cable replacement service) and you use one. That's a huge difference, I think. All I use are streaming video services (SVS) like NF and AP and Hulu. You watch regularly scheduled shows and we don't bother with schedules. Different. And we've both been big proponents of streaming from the get go.

What I see on these threads about cord cutting is folks trying to replicate the cable/sat experience. Channels, Guides, remotes with number buttons...all the things that I think made the cable/sat experience tiring. The streaming experience can be very easy and very satisfying...and very different from what most folks expect. But it takes time to transition to streaming, folks should take it slowly. Learn how to stream as you want then worry about cutting the cord. That way you won't be frustrated.

Rich


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

Rich said:


> Right! Just look at how you and I stream. Very differently. I have no CRS (cable replacement service) and you use one. That's a huge difference, I think. All I use are streaming video services (SVS) like NF and AP and Hulu. You watch regularly scheduled shows and we don't bother with schedules. Different. And we've both been big proponents of streaming from the get go.
> 
> What I see on these threads about cord cutting is folks trying to replicate the cable/sat experience. Channels, Guides, remotes with number buttons...all the things that I think made the cable/sat experience tiring. The streaming experience can be very easy and very satisfying...and very different from what most folks expect. But it takes time to transition to streaming, folks should take it slowly. Learn how to stream as you want then worry about cutting the cord. That way you won't be frustrated.
> 
> Rich


Your last paragraph hits the nail squarely on the proverbial head!


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## VaJim (Jul 27, 2006)

Kinda like what I said back on post #49....

"Bottom line, you can get used to almost anything. "


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Rich said:


> What I see on these threads about cord cutting is folks trying to replicate the cable/sat experience. Channels, Guides, remotes with number buttons...all the things that I think made the cable/sat experience tiring. The streaming experience can be very easy and very satisfying...and very different from what most folks expect. But it takes time to transition to streaming, folks should take it slowly. Learn how to stream as you want then worry about cutting the cord. That way you won't be frustrated.


I agree. I've said before that the main thing keeping the traditional linear channel-based TV system in place is the availability of live (local team) sports, which, for the most part, are not available through standalone OTT streaming apps, only through linear broadcast and cable channels. But another thing that keeps the traditional system in place is simply force of habit -- it's what most people have known their whole lives and they're very comfortable with it. Most people find changing their habits a pain. It's easier to stick with what you know. And the traditional cable box experience does a pretty good job of unifying all those different channels, including local channels featuring local newscasts, into one UI.

I set up my parents (in their 70s-80s) with a Roku a few years ago. Mom will use it occasionally for Netflix, and Dad for YouTube, but to them, the Dish DVR is still "regular TV". Mom would rather select a recording from the DVR watch list and have to FF through the commercials than to switch over to the Roku, find the show in Hulu, and watch it ad-free with better picture quality! Meanwhile, when I visit them, I find myself mostly just using the Roku. Wading through all those channels on Dish feels like stepping back in time. We're just used to different things and have different habits when it comes to the mechanics of watching TV.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

VaJim said:


> Kinda like what I said back on post #49...."Bottom line, you can get used to almost anything. "


Not hard to get used to something better. But it did take me a couple years to see the light.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> I agree. I've said before that the main thing keeping the traditional linear channel-based TV system in place is the availability of live (local team) sports, which, for the most part, are not available through standalone OTT streaming apps, only through linear broadcast and cable channels. *But another thing that keeps the traditional system in place is simply force of habit -- it's what most people have known their whole lives and they're very comfortable with it. Most people find changing their habits a pain. It's easier to stick with what you know.* And the traditional cable box experience does a pretty good job of unifying all those different channels, including local channels featuring local newscasts, into one UI.
> 
> I set up my parents (in their 70s-80s) with a Roku a few years ago. Mom will use it occasionally for Netflix, and Dad for YouTube, but to them, the Dish DVR is still "regular TV". Mom would rather select a recording from the DVR watch list and have to FF through the commercials than to switch over to the Roku, find the show in Hulu, and watch it ad-free with better picture quality! Meanwhile, when I visit them, I find myself mostly just using the Roku. Wading through all those channels on Dish feels like stepping back in time. We're just used to different things and have different habits when it comes to the mechanics of watching TV.


You just described "paradigm shift" very well. And you're right about sports. That is the reason I still have D*.

Rich


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I just want to be able to find what I want to watch. I don't want to build a system of multiple services - I just want to turn on my TV and watch my programs.

30 years ago I lived in an apartment with bundled cable and no LOS for satellite. I lived with what they could provide on my TVs. When I moved to a house (with LOS!) I subscribed to satellite service. Initially neither satellite service had locals for my area - and while I could have changed inputs to watch local TV I found that it was much easier to watch whatever was on that satellite box. When locals became available via satellite I added them. Over the years the satellite box has become the hub of watching TV ... including streamed/downloaded PPV and other features. At this point the feature I would add to my satellite box would be a BluRay player so I can watch discs.

The convenience of having one place to turn is important.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

James Long said:


> The convenience of having one place to turn is important.


I agree. That's why everyone is trying to devise UIs and commercial offerings that combine content from all the various sources, both linear channel and OTT on-demand, into a convenient package for consumers. Any decent modern cable box, like Comcast's X1, now has at least Netflix integrated, if not additional popular apps too, alongside live channels, DVR and on-demand. (Comcast recently said that they plan to offer the top 100 apps on X1.) Meanwhile, Amazon, Roku and Apple are all looking at simple ways to sell multiple subscriptions to customers and converge content from all those sources into a unified UI that makes sense. Apple is even positioning the Apple TV as a sort of 21-century successor to the TiVo in that they're working with major cable TV providers, including Charter Spectrum, to integrate their services with Apple's software/UI.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I was surprised how well my new Smart TV integrated with DISH ... basically giving me a second UI for my receiver. Recent DVR recordings and channels show up on my TV's UI - and when I select something the TV controls the DISH receiver via IP.

I believe integration will help keep the traditional players in the game.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

VaJim said:


> Kinda like what I said back on post #49....
> 
> "Bottom line, you can get used to almost anything. "


If what you mean by that is moving on to something better then I would definitely agree.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

James Long said:


> I was surprised how well my new Smart TV integrated with DISH ... basically giving me a second UI for my receiver. Recent DVR recordings and channels show up on my TV's UI - and when I select something the TV controls the DISH receiver via IP.
> 
> I believe integration will help keep the traditional players in the game.


Does your TV has an app for Dish like Directv's client app some TVs support, or is Dish using standards that the TV natively supports like DLNA & DTCP-IP?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

mjwagner said:


> If what you mean by that is moving on to something better then I would definitely agree.


Cognitive dissonance. It is better because you would NEVER choose to pay for something worse. Right? "Bottom line, you can get used to almost anything." is the catchphrase of the cognitively dissonant subscriber. Sure, you don't get grapes with your streaming plans - but the grapes were sour and you didn't want them anyways.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

slice1900 said:


> Does your TV has an app for Dish like Directv's client app some TVs support, or is Dish using standards that the TV natively supports like DLNA & DTCP-IP?


It is not an app on the TV (such as the Netflix and YouTube apps that one can select). It is IP remote control of the receiver. The TV recognized that it was connected to a DISH receiver via HDMI during the setup process. It then showed a list of all of my DISH equipment and asked which one I wanted to connect. When I selected the right device a code number appeared on the DISH receiver ... I typed the code number into my TV (the menu showed the screen in a window so I could see the receiver screen while in the menu) and the TV integrated the remote control of the DISH receiver.

I expect that the TV would also detect DIRECTV equipment. There was no notice on the box advertising the TV as DISH compatible. (The DIRECTV NOW app is one of the several featured apps. SlingTV is available via an app search but is not featured.)


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

James Long said:


> Cognitive dissonance. It is better because you would NEVER choose to pay for something worse. Right? "Bottom line, you can get used to almost anything." is the catchphrase of the cognitively dissonant subscriber. Sure, you don't get grapes with your streaming plans - but the grapes were sour and you didn't want them anyways.


Oh I'm sure that would be an apt description for some. But I don't think that would describe the majority. Certainly doesn't describe me. Thankfully we are well off and can afford just about anything we want. I switched to get a better experience that more closely matched how and what we watch. The fact that it is also less expensive was just icing on the cake. But everyone is different and their really is no "right" answer.


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## linkstorinks (Aug 13, 2014)

As a only sport and news watching consumer, will say after almost 1 month worth of SlingTV I am very happy. Got all my local sports, plus for well over 1/3 the price without time spent haggling on credits, etc. Happy wife as well so... 

Only downfall as some are in this thread, "what is wrong with you and why do you need channel numbers" Habits all, plain and simple. I knew exactly what game was on what channel and no they weren't your run of the mill favorites you could set up easily either. I see it more as I know how to stop on my left and right foot in hockey as I have always done without hesitation. Now I need to be like one kids again that can only stop on one leg and will eventually figure everything out in unison. However one will always favor stopping one way or turning one way on skates just like any other chooses the hand to write or draw with. To each their own, still loving my sports and learning my new turns and stops off the ice with the kids on the ice!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> It is not an app on the TV (such as the Netflix and YouTube apps that one can select). It is IP remote control of the receiver. The TV recognized that it was connected to a DISH receiver via HDMI during the setup process. It then showed a list of all of my DISH equipment and asked which one I wanted to connect. When I selected the right device a code number appeared on the DISH receiver ... I typed the code number into my TV (the menu showed the screen in a window so I could see the receiver screen while in the menu) and the TV integrated the remote control of the DISH receiver.
> 
> *I expect that the TV would also detect DIRECTV equipment.* There was no notice on the box advertising the TV as DISH compatible. (The DIRECTV NOW app is one of the several featured apps. SlingTV is available via an app search but is not featured.)


My Samsungs will do that with some D* HRs. I think it's only the Genies. The Samsung remotes also control the Apple TV boxes. Never use the remotes for that, the dedicated remotes are much better, I think.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> Oh I'm sure that would be an apt description for some. But I don't think that would describe the majority. Certainly doesn't describe me. Thankfully we are well off and can afford just about anything we want. *I switched to get a better experience that more closely matched how and what we watch.* The fact that it is also less expensive was just icing on the cake. But everyone is different and their really is no "right" answer.


Gotta give folks time to assimilate all that you can do with streaming. You switched for exactly the same reason most of us did. This isn't just about saving money.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rich said:


> Gotta give folks time to assimilate all that you can do with streaming. You switched for exactly the same reason most of us did. This isn't just about saving money.
> 
> Rich


I would stream more if I wasn't losing some of the features I like most about my Tivo - like watching stuff 30% faster via QuickPlay, or being able to read captions at 1xFF for stuff like news or documentaries.

Before I had that, I used to stream stuff more often. Now it feels like I'm being forced back into the stone age when I do, so I stream maybe once a month now. If that. Bad enough that fast forward sucks donkey balls in the Amazon Prime app since you can't see the picture and don't know where you might want to stop!

I suppose this is unique to that small percentage of us who use a Tivo, so it won't impact the migration to streaming, but that doesn't make it any less annoying that they can't make it a better experience.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> I would stream more if I wasn't losing some of the features I like most about my Tivo - like watching stuff 30% faster via QuickPlay, or being able to read captions at 1xFF for stuff like news or documentaries.
> 
> Before I had that, I used to stream stuff more often. Now it feels like I'm being forced back into the stone age when I do, so I stream maybe once a month now. If that. Bad enough that fast forward sucks donkey balls in the Amazon Prime app since you can't see the picture and don't know where you might want to stop!
> 
> I suppose this is unique to that small percentage of us who use a Tivo, so it won't impact the migration to streaming, but that doesn't make it any less annoying that they can't make it a better experience.


What device are you running the Amazon Prime app on? On my Nvidia Shields and my FireTV devices when you hold down the ff or REW key a box pops up in the lower left that lets you see what you are ff/REW thru. Perhaps it's another one of those cases where the UI is not consistent across devices, which is certainly something that needs work.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

mjwagner said:


> What device are you running the Amazon Prime app on? On my Nvidia Shields and my FireTV devices when you hold down the ff or REW key a box pops up in the lower left that lets you see what you are ff/REW thru. Perhaps it's another one of those cases where the UI is not consistent across devices, which is certainly something that needs work.


Running the prime app on my Tivo. It has been a while, but I saw it on an Apple TV and it did the same. Maybe it has been updated on those platforms - might have to consider getting an ATV if that's the case.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> Running the prime app on my Tivo. It has been a while, but I saw it on an Apple TV and it did the same. Maybe it has been updated on those platforms - might have to consider getting an ATV if that's the case.


I used to have a TiVo Roamio OTA. And, lemme tell ya, the streaming apps on TiVo are what suck donkey balls. (I hear they're somewhat better on the Bolt, though.)

Anyhoo, I haven't subbed to Prime Video in awhile but I just double-checked on my ATV4K and, as I remembered, the Prime Video app uses the standard Apple playback UI/controls (same as Netflix, Hulu, Showtime and HBO, but NOT YouTube). I tested with the free episode 1 of Man in the High Tower. When you pause the video, the timeline UI appears with a thumbnail. You then swipe left or right on the touch pad to scrub through the timeline, with the thumbnail and timestamp updating as you go. You also have the option of just left or right clicking while the video plays to immediately jump backwards or forwards by 10 seconds. Doing that does not bring up the thumbnail preview.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

linkstorinks said:


> As a only sport and news watching consumer, will say after almost 1 month worth of SlingTV I am very happy. Got all my local sports, plus for well over 1/3 the price without time spent haggling on credits, etc. Happy wife as well so...


You might be interested in a potential future package from Hulu that would reportedly just feature sports and news channels, along with their base on-demand library of content. So probably ESPN, ESPN 2, FS1, FS2, NBCSN, Fox News, MSNBC, CNBC, and probably CNN, HLN, TBS and TNT. Possibly also local affiliates of ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox (which of course carry a fair amount of sports plus local news). Wonder what that might cost? If they could offer all that, including locals, for $25, that could sell.

Hulu Eyes Cheaper Live TV Bundles That Strip Out Entertainment Cable Networks


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Running the prime app on my Tivo. It has been a while, but I saw it on an Apple TV and it did the same. Maybe it has been updated on those platforms - might have to consider getting an ATV if that's the case.


The Amazon Prime app on the ATVs has always had that feature. I don't have any old ATVs but since the AP app came out that feature has been active on every one of the six ATVs we have. And on every other ATV of those generations, the HD ATV and the 4K ATVs.

Rich


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## cwpomeroy (Aug 8, 2007)

Not sure if any of you have seen this but Amazon releasing an OTA DVR with no monthly fees..... I plan on getting this for some rooms I don't have directv in and when we have rain or snow fade.

Amazon Fire Recast
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J6A6H7...qmt=e&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_4dgswpp80k_e

I'm spending almost $200 a month with directv and another bunch with Netflix, CBS All Access, WWE network etc. I'm sure I'll get the Disney app when released. The one thing about the streaming that drives me insane is the passwords and stuff. We should have type of app or dongle or something in the house instead of having to login and authenticate on eact tv. Note, we have three apple TVs and a bunch of smart Samsung's and xboxes. I too would like a single meta app controller.....


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

cwpomeroy said:


> Not sure if any of you have seen this but Amazon releasing an OTA DVR with no monthly fees..... I plan on getting this for some rooms I don't have directv in and when we have rain or snow fade.
> 
> Amazon Fire Recast
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J6A6H7...qmt=e&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_4dgswpp80k_e
> ...


Sling sells the AirTV for half that price, and there are even cheaper alternatives (as low as $35, you supply the hard drive) though they probably aren't quite so polished.

If you're going to pay $229 for that, Tivo occasionally has deals where you can get a Bolt OTA (4 tuners and more storage than that Amazon device) with lifetime for $300. Much better resale on a Tivo, too.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> If you're going to pay $229 for that, Tivo occasionally has deals where you can get a Bolt OTA (4 tuners and more storage than that Amazon device) with lifetime for $300. Much better resale on a Tivo, too.


You're remembering the last-generation TiVo Roamio OTA. It was regularly $400 with lifetime service but, as you say, occasionally on sale for $350 or even $300. But that product has now been discontinued and replaced with the Bolt OTA. It's regularly $250 and service is purchased separately. Lifetime service costs another $250, for a total of $500. Or you can buy it annually for $70 or monthly for $7. It'll probably be on sale, especially around Black Friday, but I seriously doubt we'll see the new Bolt OTA plus lifetime service go for anywhere close to $300 any time soon. Maybe $400 though.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

cwpomeroy said:


> Not sure if any of you have seen this but Amazon releasing an OTA DVR with no monthly fees..... I plan on getting this for some rooms I don't have directv in and when we have rain or snow fade.
> 
> Amazon Fire Recast
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J6A6H7...qmt=e&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_4dgswpp80k_e


If you're going to buy one of those for $229, you should just get the bundle deal for $250, which also includes their new Fire TV Stick 4K and an OTA antenna:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H3MKT3G/ref=fk_dp_hqp

The new stick is a pretty nice upgrade over all earlier model Fire TV devices.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

NashGuy said:


> You're remembering the last-generation TiVo Roamio OTA. It was regularly $400 with lifetime service but, as you say, occasionally on sale for $350 or even $300. But that product has now been discontinued and replaced with the Bolt OTA. It's regularly $250 and service is purchased separately. Lifetime service costs another $250, for a total of $500. Or you can buy it annually for $70 or monthly for $7. It'll probably be on sale, especially around Black Friday, but I seriously doubt we'll see the new Bolt OTA plus lifetime service go for anywhere close to $300 any time soon. Maybe $400 though.


They had a special recently for $300, but maybe it was the Roamio OTA instead of Bolt OTA. Doesn't much matter since for OTA only they are basically the same other than the Bolt being faster, and either would be superior to Amazon's product.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I need to make a list of the channels we watch to check out streaming options. I would also have to get a DVR to record the OTA programming. What options would I have for recording streaming shows? We record everything and watch it later with our current Directv system. I would then have to get a decent wifi system that would give me enough speed and not break the bank. This cost plus the streaming cost would have to be considerable less than what I am paying now to Directv to cancel. Some people have internet services at decent prices, but my only option is wifi.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

reubenray said:


> I need to make a list of the channels we watch to check out streaming options. I would also have to get a DVR to record the OTA programming. What options would I have for recording streaming shows? We record everything and watch it later with our current Directv system. I would then have to get a decent wifi system that would give me enough speed and not break the bank. This cost plus the streaming cost would have to be considerable less than what I am paying now to Directv to cancel. Some people have internet services at decent prices, but my only option is wifi.


Most of these streaming channel services include at least some of your local channels, so you may not even need to bother with an OTA antenna and DVR. These services also typically include a "cloud DVR" which allows you to record shows on their server and then stream your recordings to your TV later. So again, you don't need an actual DVR in your home for use with these services.

But there are trade-offs in using any of those services rather than traditional cable or satellite TV like you have now. The main trade-offs include:

fewer channels 
DVR that isn't as good (because you don't have as much storage space in the cloud DVR and/or because recordings automatically delete after a certain amount of time and/or because you may not be able to FF through ads in recordings from certain channels)
less reliable service

The details vary from one streaming service to another. Whether or not the savings you would receive would be worth those trade-offs is, of course, up to you. YouTube TV, from Google, has a reputation of being the most reliable. DirecTV Now probably has the reputation of being the least reliable, although they've gotten a lot better this year.

This website can show you which services offer the specific channels you want, including locals available in your zip code:
www.suppose.tv


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Just saw this article about PS Vue this morning. Looks like Sony is gonna stick with it and see if the subscription rate picks up. Here's the link: Sony Is Doubling Down on PlayStation Vue - Cord Cutters News

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Thanks for that suppose.tv link. Really useful site I’ll have to look at in more detail at home. Too hard to read on my iPhone screen and don’t want to spend much time on the office PC looking at that sort of thing.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I don't get why Sony is doubling down but leaving it with the same stupid name that turns off many of their potential customers who either assume it requires a Playstation or assume it is a "toy" product.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> I don't get why Sony is doubling down but leaving it with the same stupid name that turns off many of their potential customers who either assume it requires a Playstation or assume it is a "toy" product.


The start of just about every conversation I have ever had about PSVue...me:have you tried PlaystationVue?...other person: oh I don't use PlayStations...me: palm slapping forehead-


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Shows that Sony named the service poorly. How about "Sony Streaming"?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> I don't get why Sony is doubling down but leaving it with the same stupid name that turns off many of their potential customers who either assume it requires a Playstation or assume it is a "toy" product.


Sony seems to be aware of the mistakes they've made. Naming the service as they did was a whopper.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> The start of just about every conversation I have ever had about PSVue...me:have you tried PlaystationVue?...other person: oh I don't use PlayStations...me: palm slapping forehead-


Dumb mistake. Not the first dumb mistake we've seen from Sony...remember the Betamax? Why they can't just say, "We made a mistake, here's a name that makes sense and is not confusing."

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Shows that Sony named the service poorly. How about "Sony Streaming"?


That would work.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

They'd want to keep some continuity with the old name, and calling it "Sony Streaming" is like Ford introducing a new model called the "Ford Automobile".

What's wrong with Sony Vue?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> They'd want to keep some continuity with the old name, and calling it "Sony Streaming" is like Ford introducing a new model called the "Ford Automobile".
> 
> What's wrong with Sony Vue?


That would work well too. Who cares what they rename it? Could not be worse than what it is. "Playstation Vue", could not be more confusing. Vue isn't even an English word. And that name sure makes it sound like you need a Playstation to use the app, doesn't it?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

The title of this thread leads me to ask another question: How do you stream? Do you see the need for a Cable Replacement Service? Do you just use Streaming Video Services such as NetFlix and Hulu? Do you binge on series or watch them in the manner you watch series on D*? Do you even bother with BDs anymore?

Would be interesting to know. 

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Rich said:


> .... And that name sure makes it sound like you need a Playstation to use the app, doesn't it?
> 
> Rich


I certainly thought that when I started investigating options! Had folks like you not cleared it up, I'd likely have ignored Vue.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> I certainly thought that when I started investigating options! Had folks like you not cleared it up, I'd likely have ignored Vue.


Did you get a Nvidia Shield streaming box to go with PS Vue? I had one when I tried PSV and I've never used a faster remote or streaming box.

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Rich said:


> Did you get a Nvidia Shield streaming box to go with PS Vue? I had one when I tried PSV and I've never used a faster remote or streaming box.
> 
> Rich


I haven't done anything yet. Watching DirecTV via the dish as I type. Haven't finished my due diligence.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Tried a trial of youtube.tv. It worked okay. Quality was acceptable. DVR was OK giving you unlimited space and recordings good for 9 months. It had all 4 of my local network channels. What wasn't OK was the channels I watch like DIY and HGTV and several others wasn't on it. And no FF through commercials was the biggest deal breaker. To get all the channels that I have on DTV I would have had to subscribe to at least 3 services. And I would still have the not being able to FF through commercials problem. So I won't be switching to streaming anytime soon.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> Tried a trial of youtube.tv. It worked okay. Quality was acceptable. DVR was OK giving you unlimited space and recordings good for 9 months. It had all 4 of my local network channels. What wasn't OK was the channels I watch like DIY and HGTV and several others wasn't on it. And no FF through commercials was the biggest deal breaker. To get all the channels that I have on DTV I would have had to subscribe to at least 3 services. And I would still have the not being able to FF through commercials problem. So I won't be switching to streaming anytime soon.


You're not looking at streaming as I hope most folks look at it. I see very few commercials the way I stream. And isn't that one of major benefits of streaming?

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

b4pjoe said:


> Tried a trial of youtube.tv. It worked okay. Quality was acceptable. DVR was OK giving you unlimited space and recordings good for 9 months. It had all 4 of my local network channels. What wasn't OK was the channels I watch like DIY and HGTV and several others wasn't on it. And no FF through commercials was the biggest deal breaker. *To get all the channels that I have on DTV I would have had to subscribe to at least 3 services.* And I would still have the not being able to FF through commercials problem. So I won't be switching to streaming anytime soon.


See highlighted text. The question I would ask (and have asked myself as I do my research) is how many of those channels you actually watch on a regular basis, or even on an occasional basis. I've found the answer is actually a fairly small number. I find myself wondering why it makes sense to worry about replicating the same channel lineup, or even anywhere close to it.

Not to get too political here, but it's sort of like the Obamacare debate. I'm male. I don't care one bit if the government wants health insurance policies to include gynecological coverage. I don't use that and I never will, so I don't want to pay for it. I've concluded that TV channels are sort of the same.


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## tivofan2018 (Oct 19, 2018)

1995hoo said:


> See highlighted text. The question I would ask (and have asked myself as I do my research) is how many of those channels you actually watch on a regular basis, or even on an occasional basis. I've found the answer is actually a fairly small number. I find myself wondering why it makes sense to worry about replicating the same channel lineup, or even anywhere close to it.
> 
> Not to get too political here, but it's sort of like the Obamacare debate. I'm male. I don't care one bit if the government wants health insurance policies to include gynecological coverage. I don't use that and I never will, so I don't want to pay for it. I've concluded that TV channels are sort of the same.


a true package to where one could pick there own channels would be great!!! but we know what would happen with that. the content providers would crank the rates up so high making it not even worth it unless one bundles all of the other channels in with them. content providers want more $$$ and consumers want lower rates


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Rich said:


> You're not looking at streaming as I hope most folks look at it. I see very few commercials the way I stream. And isn't that one of major benefits of streaming?
> 
> Rich


I'm not sure what you mean by how most folks look at streaming. I rarely watch live tv. I work evenings and record shows mainly from the 4 major networks which I did this week. I tried watching the first 30 minute sitcom from the youtube tv cloud dvr. It started with a 15 second ad before the opening scene. After a few minutes it went to a block of four 30 second commercials. Then it came back for few more minutes of show. Then it started another block of four 30 second commercials. That was at approximately the halfway mark of the show. You can't FF through them like you can with the D* dvr. Like I said this was my trial test with youtube tv. Yeah I have the commercial free subscription to CBS ALL access but that only gets CBS content. ABC, NBC, and FOX all have apps on my ATV and they all have commercials that you can't FF through. Netflix or Hulu isn't a great option to see the latest episodes of tv. Hulu live tv doesn't even have my 4 local network channels.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

1995hoo said:


> See highlighted text. The question I would ask (and have asked myself as I do my research) is how many of those channels you actually watch on a regular basis, or even on an occasional basis. I've found the answer is actually a fairly small number. I find myself wondering why it makes sense to worry about replicating the same channel lineup, or even anywhere close to it.
> 
> Not to get too political here, but it's sort of like the Obamacare debate. I'm male. I don't care one bit if the government wants health insurance policies to include gynecological coverage. I don't use that and I never will, so I don't want to pay for it. I've concluded that TV channels are sort of the same.


I should have worded that differently. I do not need every channel that I get on dtv. I have the premier plan and there are a lot of channels on it that i do not watch. I have that plan because I do get all of the channels that we do watch and also includes all of the premium channels that we want...HBO, Showtime, Cinemax etc....Now I don't have to have all of the premium channels but when I decided I wanted HBO and Showtime it was more economical to move to the premier plan where I got all of the premium channels instead of just adding the two premium channels. The youtube tv was missing some channels that I do regularly watch plus the issue with not being able to FF through commercials.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

b4pjoe said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by how most folks look at streaming. I rarely watch live tv. I work evenings and record shows mainly from the 4 major networks which I did this week. I tried watching the first 30 minute sitcom from the youtube tv cloud dvr. It started with a 15 second ad before the opening scene. After a few minutes it went to a block of four 30 second commercials. Then it came back for few more minutes of show. Then it started another block of four 30 second commercials. That was at approximately the halfway mark of the show. You can't FF through them like you can with the D* dvr. Like I said this was my trial test with youtube tv. Yeah I have the commercial free subscription to CBS ALL access but that only gets CBS content. ABC, NBC, and FOX all have apps on my ATV and they all have commercials that you can't FF through. Netflix or Hulu isn't a great option to see the latest episodes of tv. Hulu live tv doesn't even have my 4 local network channels.


I use PSVue. I ff thru all commercials. The net with all this is that it is very dependent on your usage patterns and what channels you need/want. Based on that some people are just better off sticking with traditional cable/sat. Nothing wrong with that at all. The benefit to all this is as more options become available to consumers it improves service and drives down cost for everybody. Competition is good!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> See highlighted text. The question I would ask (and have asked myself as I do my research) is how many of those channels you actually watch on a regular basis, or even on an occasional basis. I've found the answer is actually a fairly small number. I find myself wondering why it makes sense to worry about replicating the same channel lineup, or even anywhere close to it.
> 
> Not to get too political here, but it's sort of like the Obamacare debate. I'm male. I don't care one bit if the government wants health insurance policies to include gynecological coverage. I don't use that and I never will, so I don't want to pay for it. I've concluded that TV channels are sort of the same.


Most of the content that seems to be missing can be found on the streaming video services such as NF, AP and Hulu.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rich said:


> You're not looking at streaming as I hope most folks look at it. I see very few commercials the way I stream. And isn't that one of major benefits of streaming?
> 
> Rich


You're watching stuff like Netflix, Amazon, etc. right? You've said before that once you can watch your football/baseball teams streaming you'll drop Directv. You're not going to be able to avoid the commercials when that happens, and if you 'record' the games to watch later you might not even be able to skip them then like can you with a DVR.

It all depends on what restrictions the sports rights owners might put on the streaming service they choose. Since they would have the ability to prevent viewers from skipping commercials, I think there's a good chance they'll do so, because it means more money.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> *I'm not sure what you mean by how most folks look at streaming.* I rarely watch live tv. I work evenings and record shows mainly from the 4 major networks which I did this week. I tried watching the first 30 minute sitcom from the youtube tv cloud dvr. It started with a 15 second ad before the opening scene. After a few minutes it went to a block of four 30 second commercials. Then it came back for few more minutes of show. Then it started another block of four 30 second commercials. That was at approximately the halfway mark of the show. You can't FF through them like you can with the D* dvr. Like I said this was my trial test with youtube tv. Yeah I have the commercial free subscription to CBS ALL access but that only gets CBS content. ABC, NBC, and FOX all have apps on my ATV and they all have commercials that you can't FF through. Netflix or Hulu isn't a great option to see the latest episodes of tv. Hulu live tv doesn't even have my 4 local network channels.


I have no idea how most folks stream. As far as I know there is very little data about this subject. I asked that question in the hope that folks would tell us what they are doing.

Rich


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Rich said:


> *You're not looking at streaming as I hope most folks look at it. * I see very few commercials the way I stream. And isn't that one of major benefits of streaming?
> 
> Rich





Rich said:


> *I have no idea how most folks stream.* As far as I know there is very little data about this subject. I asked that question in the hope that folks would tell us what they are doing.
> 
> Rich


OK how do you hope most folks look at it? What are you watching via streaming where you see very few commercials? From Hulu, NF or AP? Movies? Old TV shows? Current TV shows? Sports? Someone mentioned they can FF through commercials with PS Vue. I'll have to check that out. What I posted about earlier was what I found with Youtube TV.


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

I have a couple of different views that are similar to others. We are retired now and so spend some days at home with "nothing" to do but watch TV. There are shows that we record and others we just go through the guide and decide to watch.
So there are probably a lot of channels that we watch occasionally. 
So having 1 guide that we can scan through to see what is on "everywhere" is important.
Also I don't really want to remember gee I watch that on this service. Personally, I find both Netflix and Prime which I've tried difficult to find things let alone go to the right one for this service. Skipping commercials is extremely important especially in the pre-election period. The most important invention of all time is the MUTE button 
Sure I pay for things that I don't watch but ease of use is important to me (let alone trying to explain to my spouse how to find things. 
As to the guy who doesn't want to pay for medical benefits he can't use we all pay for things (like schools) the don't use - that is life.


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

CTJon said:


> I have a couple of different views that are similar to others. We are retired now and so spend some days at home with "nothing" to do but watch TV. There are shows that we record and others we just go through the guide and decide to watch.
> So there are probably a lot of channels that we watch occasionally.
> So having 1 guide that we can scan through to see what is on "everywhere" is important.
> Also I don't really want to remember gee I watch that on this service. Personally, I find both Netflix and Prime which I've tried difficult to find things let alone go to the right one for this service. Skipping commercials is extremely important especially in the pre-election period. The most important invention of all time is the MUTE button
> ...


 Check with your local library. They may have an application to watch movies, eBooks, and music? We have Hoopla that requires one to have a local library card for creating an account. Each library system is different. It is FREE.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

Agreed CTJon. FF and ease of use for the spouse are both very important.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

dod1450 said:


> We have Hoopla that requires one to have a local library card for creating an account. Each library system is different. It is FREE.


Have Hoopla through my local library. But it only allows four downloads of any kind (music, tv shows, movies, audio books, ebooks) per month. Couldn't replace much satellite or cable with that. Maybe other libraries aren't as restrictive.


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## bmetelsky (Mar 1, 2009)

I switched from DISH to streaming, even went in with my two brothers to share the cost of streaming. Guess what? I couldn't stand it - primarily because I hated not having a DVR that could skip commercials, go to the start of a program already in progress, etc. The wife also hated having to sit through commercials. The experiment lasted approximately 2 months. I caved and subscribed to DirecTv for an all-inclusive package which has more and is cheaper, even in year 2, than the streaming that was sub-par.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

b4pjoe said:


> OK how do you hope most folks look at it? What are you watching via streaming where you see very few commercials? From Hulu, NF or AP? Movies? Old TV shows? Current TV shows? Sports? Someone mentioned they can FF through commercials with PS Vue. I'll have to check that out. What I posted about earlier was what I found with Youtube TV.


How I watch TV is based on what I've done for years. I've written about this several times. In the early '90s I had 12 VCRs and cable. I had racks of blank tapes all numbered, hundreds of blank tapes. I recorded everything we wanted to watch and kept a paper logbook detailing what was on each tape. With all series recorded and available at any time we started binging on series after the seasons ended. We got in the habit of binging rather than watching various programs each night.

In 2002, Cablevision dropped the YES Network. Check out my avatar. No Yankees, no YES, no Rich. Switched to D* immediately. Got a bunch of receivers. Had no idea what a DVR was. Had a bunch of receivers feeding 12 VCRs. Same viewing habit, mainly binged on everything. Still had the logbook, still lots of work. Bought a D* DVR just to see what I could do with that. Had an epiphany. Bought a bunch of D* TiVos, got rid of all the Sony VCRs (best PQ of any of the many VCRs I tried) and ditched the logbook and the blank tapes. Whoa! Binging got a whole lot easier! Now I have a Playlist.

End up buying 12 HRs. Satisfied. Got the system I always wanted. Perfect...still have commercials to deal with but the D* remotes make that a bit easier. Still binging. We are always about six months behind because we wait for each series to end before we binge on the whole series. Seems like this is about as good as it gets.

I subscribed to NetFlix as soon as I realized their DVD service was better and cheaper that any video stores. I knew they had a streaming service but I didn't see any reason to use it...until I tried it for a few months. Yes, using NF is kinda intimidating because of the NF user interface. It takes time to get used to it. Even after I figured that out it still didn't occur to me how to use NF. That took over a year to sink in. Then it hit me, no more scheduling. No more channels. No more Guide. No more DVR problems. No antenna or dish. No cabling. All I had to do was select a series and binge on it.

I had to try the other streaming video services, Amazon Prime, Hulu, Showtime, HBO NOW, etc. Too many to list. All have a bit of a learning curve but they all used NF as a template for their UIs. Once I figured them out, I had "channels" again...sort of. If you think of NF as a "channel" and AP as a "channel" and Hulu as a "channel" streaming might be a little easier to understand. Each service has Playlists. I don't feel as if I've lost anything by streaming and not using D* for anything but sports. What I end up with is very few commercials, a better picture and very few hardware problems.

And, I get to see everything I want to see when I want to see it very easily. I do not feel that I've complicated viewing TV, I did that by buying all the DVRs. I made life simpler by doing what I did. It took me years to convince my family that streaming is the way we want to watch TV, now they all buy into it.

Have we saved any money? Nope, that's not what this is about for us. Our monthly bill for all our video services including D* is about the same as it was when we had the top tier D* packages. Not saying you can't save money by streaming, you absolutely can save a lot of money by just using one streaming video service at a time. That would cost up to ~ $20 a month if you just had one SVS actives. Can anyone beat that price...that price that gives you so much content it will take you months to binge on all of it?

I don't see the need for a cable replacement service such as D*NOW or Slingbox or PS Vue. I wanted to get away from all that.

This is all just my opinion, just the way I've found to watch TV. What matters is what each of us is comfortable with. YMMV. I don't think there's just one way to stream. Keep in mind, what we do is really simple.

Rich


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

Rich said:


> I had 12 VCRs and cable. I had racks of blank tapes all numbered, hundreds of blank tapes.


I did that too but with 5 or 6 VCRs. Bought two cases of VHS tapes for .99¢ a piece. Good times back then.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TheRatPatrol said:


> I did that too but with 5 or 6 VCRs. Bought two cases of VHS tapes for .99¢ a piece. Good times back then.


I did enjoy it but it's so much simpler now. Got a whole lot simpler when I got the DVRs. Now it's so simple it's damn near ridiculous. But it does take time to grok the fullness of streaming.

Rich


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

b4pjoe said:


> Tried a trial of youtube.tv. It worked okay. Quality was acceptable. DVR was OK giving you unlimited space and recordings good for 9 months. It had all 4 of my local network channels. What wasn't OK was the channels I watch like DIY and HGTV and several others wasn't on it. And no FF through commercials was the biggest deal breaker. To get all the channels that I have on DTV I would have had to subscribe to at least 3 services. And I would still have the not being able to FF through commercials problem. So I won't be switching to streaming anytime soon.


As of a couple weeks ago, the only channels for which YouTube TV doesn't allow you to FF through ads are local CBS affiliates (and maybe CBS's cable networks, which are CBS Sports Network and Pop). There used to be a number of other channels like that but now it's just CBS.

As for the channel line-up, yeah, to get the price to just $40 while including all the locals, the major sports nets, the news nets and a generous cloud DVR (unlimited storage for 9 months), YouTube TV can't include everything. So they don't have any channels owned by Scripps/Discovery or by Viacom (which, not coincidentally, don't own any local, sports or news channels). Seems to me like Google could just negotiate with those two network owners to offer their most popular channels via add-on packs.


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## b4pjoe (Nov 20, 2010)

NashGuy said:


> As of a couple weeks ago, the only channels for which YouTube TV doesn't allow you to FF through ads are local CBS affiliates (and maybe CBS's cable networks, which are CBS Sports Network and Pop). There used to be a number of other channels like that but now it's just CBS.
> 
> As for the channel line-up, yeah, to get the price to just $40 while including all the locals, the major sports nets, the news nets and a generous cloud DVR (unlimited storage for 9 months), YouTube TV can't include everything. So they don't have any channels owned by Scripps/Discovery or by Viacom (which, not coincidentally, don't own any local, sports or news channels). Seems to me like Google could just negotiate with those two network owners to offer their most popular channels via add-on packs.


Ahhhh....the show I tried on the dvr was Seal Team which is CBS. Thanks for that info.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

bmetelsky said:


> I switched from DISH to streaming, even went in with my two brothers to share the cost of streaming. Guess what? I couldn't stand it - primarily because I hated not having a DVR that could skip commercials, go to the start of a program already in progress, etc. The wife also hated having to sit through commercials. The experiment lasted approximately 2 months. I caved and subscribed to DirecTv for an all-inclusive package which has more and is cheaper, even in year 2, than the streaming that was sub-par.


I switched to streaming almost two years ago. I do both of those things easily, all the time.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

I signed up for a trial of Vue today and am watching the local news now. Using a Fire TV Cube. I'm not sure five days will be enough to understand it fully and to adjust. I already messed up once when I asked Alexa to tune to Channel 4 instead of to NBC. That's minor. The DVR looks like it works in a totally different way than we're used to and that might be a struggle. But the big issue so far is, no surprise, my wife grousing. When I explained the price difference, she understood why I think we should explore it. But she won't pay attention to how to operate it and she won't watch the tutorial the app provides. I guess I'll have to type up an instruction sheet, which seems like a big job for a five-day trial.

I'm a bit concerned that it froze, probably buffering, twice so far during the 6:00 news. Our Internet connection is plenty fast (see below), so I'm not sure what the issue was. Both times I caught up during the next commercial, so no big deal tonight, but my wife will go ballistic if it's a regular issue. I guess that's why you do the free trial!


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I have tried all the streaming services. Vue is the best. There is also a study that says they have the less buffering (google search for it and stuff on CordCutters keyword).
Any way, even with my solid 120 MPS internet it still has White Screens and lock up.
Local channels are the worse.
You get what you pay for, after all it is half price compared to cable.

I am thinking of going back to Directv, I would a new customer now.
Looking for the best VISA gift card offer now.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Thanks. Good info to have—and I guess with the satellite dish we get rain fade and snow disruptions, so it’s just a case of what interferes, right?


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

I'm off work this week and I've been re-reading this thread this morning and I just want to say thanks again because there is a lot of really useful information here. I think the hardest thing about understanding the various streaming options—regardless of whether you're talking about cable replacement services, streaming video, whatever—is wrapping your mind around how it's a different paradigm. I suppose to some degree it's not unlike how when DVRs first appeared it was difficult to get non-users to understand what they did and how they fundamentally changed how you watched TV. The "almost everything except sports will be available on demand so you don't have to bother recording it" is perhaps the biggest mental adjustment, and it also makes it seem like the cloud DVR functionality the various services offer is likely to be far less important than it initially appears to be (this is coming from someone who constantly records stuff using the DirecTV DVR). 

That's good to know from my point of view because I'm finding the Vue DVR to be confusing and hard to understand. For example, I told it I like to watch hockey. But I can't figure out how to tell it that I would want only Capitals games saved to the DVR, not every hockey game that airs. Same thing as to college basketball—I attended UVA and Duke, so those are the two teams I watch, and I don't care about anyone else. It instead wants to save all college basketball. Surely there has to be some way to narrow that down. Frankly, I don't usually record sports anyway except for F1 racing. I record F1 because so many of the races are on in the middle of the night due to time differences around the world. But stuff like hockey and basketball is something I usually don't watch if I already know the score; instead, I just watch the highlights. So I suppose I should just tell it not to record sports at all, but on the other hand, I would like to know how to tell Vue to record a single game if I were to want to do so (for example, last October when the Caps raised the Stanley Cup banner, you're darn right I recorded that....and now that I bring it up, I should burn it to DVD while we still have DirecTV active!).

I guess my comments are underscoring a common point I've seen throughout this thread about how sports are the main sticking point one might encounter in going through this transition.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> I'm off work this week and I've been re-reading this thread this morning and I just want to say thanks again because there is a lot of really useful information here. I think the hardest thing about understanding the various streaming options-regardless of whether you're talking about cable replacement services, streaming video, whatever-is wrapping your mind around how it's a different paradigm. I suppose to some degree it's not unlike how when DVRs first appeared it was difficult to get non-users to understand what they did and how they fundamentally changed how you watched TV. The "almost everything except sports will be available on demand so you don't have to bother recording it" is perhaps the biggest mental adjustment, and it also makes it seem like the cloud DVR functionality the various services offer is likely to be far less important than it initially appears to be (this is coming from someone who constantly records stuff using the DirecTV DVR).
> 
> That's good to know from my point of view because I'm finding the Vue DVR to be confusing and hard to understand. For example, I told it I like to watch hockey. But I can't figure out how to tell it that I would want only Capitals games saved to the DVR, not every hockey game that airs. Same thing as to college basketball-I attended UVA and Duke, so those are the two teams I watch, and I don't care about anyone else. It instead wants to save all college basketball. Surely there has to be some way to narrow that down. Frankly, I don't usually record sports anyway except for F1 racing. I record F1 because so many of the races are on in the middle of the night due to time differences around the world. But stuff like hockey and basketball is something I usually don't watch if I already know the score; instead, I just watch the highlights. So I suppose I should just tell it not to record sports at all, but on the other hand, I would like to know how to tell Vue to record a single game if I were to want to do so (for example, last October when the Caps raised the Stanley Cup banner, you're darn right I recorded that....and now that I bring it up, I should burn it to DVD while we still have DirecTV active!).
> 
> I guess my comments are underscoring a common point I've seen throughout this thread about how sports are the main sticking point one might encounter in going through this transition.


It surely is a different paradigm. One that takes time to get used to. It took me years to see the light. Yes, there is little reason for cloud DVRs if you're not interested in sports. In fact, there's little reason for a cable replacement service other than for sports. Sports is the big hangup. I can't get past that.

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Rich said:


> It surely is a different paradigm. One that takes time to get used to. It took me years to see the light. Yes, there is little reason for cloud DVRs if you're not interested in sports. In fact, there's little reason for a cable replacement service other than for sports. Sports is the big hangup. I can't get past that.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, we watch hockey constantly. Missed four Caps games over the past two weeks while we were out of town, but otherwise I think we've missed maybe one game this whole season (not counting games we attend in person, of course). As noted earlier, I watch all the F1 racing as well. I thought about subscribing to F1's new streaming service for $100 a year, but since I still watch ESPN often enough for college sports and the NFL, I figure it makes more sense to maintain something through which we can watch ESPN.

The ultimate problem for us is still going to be watching baseball because of MASN's utter intransigence on making a stream available. The Fire TV Cube is not a solution because I understand it gets its location data from your linked mobile phone's GPS via the Alexa app, so a VPN or Unlocator wouldn't work. I suppose we'll have to invest in another Apple TV at some point. I know we could listen on the radio, but we prefer watching on TV. Maybe Peter Angelos will die soon and his heirs will prove more reasonable than he is.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> Yeah, we watch hockey constantly. Missed four Caps games over the past two weeks while we were out of town, but otherwise I think we've missed maybe one game this whole season (not counting games we attend in person, of course). As noted earlier, I watch all the F1 racing as well. I thought about subscribing to F1's new streaming service for $100 a year, but since I still watch ESPN often enough for college sports and the NFL, I figure it makes more sense to maintain something through which we can watch ESPN.
> 
> The ultimate problem for us is still going to be watching baseball because of MASN's utter intransigence on making a stream available. The Fire TV Cube is not a solution because I understand it gets its location data from your linked mobile phone's GPS via the Alexa app, so a VPN or Unlocator wouldn't work. I suppose we'll have to invest in another Apple TV at some point. I know we could listen on the radio, but we prefer watching on TV. Maybe Peter Angelos will die soon and his heirs will prove more reasonable than he is.


I haven't found anything, any provider, any way to get sports that's better than what D* gives me. Sports is far too important to me to make a switch to streaming services totally. I've spent a lot of time in MD and I know they have great fans in the Baltimore area and you're right, the present regime has wrecked the O's.

Once the Super Bowl is over I'll get into a cord cutting mood. All my DVRs will be recording very few shows until the MLB season begins. Once that starts all my visions of cord cutting will be over for awhile.

The Cube is brand new, I didn't expect much out of them but I do use them. Give them time, Amazon will improve them.

Rich


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Rich said:


> Once the Super Bowl is over I'll get into a cord cutting mood. All my DVRs will be recording very few shows until the MLB season begins. Once that starts all my visions of cord cutting will be over for awhile.


I don't know where negotiations stand now but, as this article from November explains, it's possible that we'll see MLB offer in-market streaming of games on a standalone basis through their MLB At Bat app in 2019. There are lots of factors and parties involved (including various RSNs that are up for sale by Disney), so who knows how it will turn out this year. But if not in 2019, then I'm sure it's where baseball (and other major pro sports) will eventually wind up.

To make myself clear, up until now, one could only stream in-market games through MLB At Bat if one authenticated that app with his cable/satellite TV credentials if those baseball games were aired on a channel in his cable TV package (like one does with the HBO Go app if you have HBO as part of your cable package). But we may see that switch this year so that viewers can buy access to in-market games directly from the MLB inside their MLB At Bat app without the need for a cable TV package (like one does with the HBO Now app). That kind of direct standalone subscription to out-of-market games has been available through MLB At Bat for awhile now. But in-market games -- which is what most fans want, since they live near the teams they root for -- are a whole 'nother ball of wax.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> I don't know where negotiations stand now but, as this article from November explains, it's possible that we'll see MLB offer in-market streaming of games on a standalone basis through their MLB At Bat app in 2019. There are lots of factors and parties involved (including various RSNs that are up for sale by Disney), so who knows how it will turn out this year. But if not in 2019, then I'm sure it's where baseball (and other major pro sports) will eventually wind up.
> 
> To make myself clear, up until now, one could only stream in-market games through MLB At Bat if one authenticated that app with his cable/satellite TV credentials if those baseball games were aired on a channel in his cable TV package (like one does with the HBO Go app if you have HBO as part of your cable package). But we may see that switch this year so that viewers can buy access to in-market games directly from the MLB inside their MLB At Bat app without the need for a cable TV package (like one does with the HBO Now app). That kind of direct standalone subscription to out-of-market games has been available through MLB At Bat for awhile now. But in-market games -- which is what most fans want, since they live near the teams they root for -- are a whole 'nother ball of wax.


That might be just what I need for getting baseball games. But I don't watch live TV, is MLB gonna have a DVR cloud function? Or leave the games in a cloud for enough time to stream/watch the games? Still have questions.

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Rich said:


> I haven't found anything, any provider, any way to get sports that's better than what D* gives me. Sports is far too important to me to make a switch to streaming services totally. I've spent a lot of time in MD and I know they have great fans in the Baltimore area and you're right, the present regime has wrecked the O's.
> 
> &#8230;.


We live in Northern Virginia and we follow the Nats. Couldn't care less about the Baltimore team except for one thing. The issue is that MASN airs both the Nats and Baltimore games and Angelos controls 2/3 of MASN because of a settlement MLB made in 2005 when they still owned the Expos/Nats franchise. Angelos, for unknown reasons, is dead-set against allowing MASN to be carried on any streaming service other than MLB.tv (and he wouldn't allow that if he had a choice). Just one more of many reasons why most of us in both the DC and Baltimore areas don't think too highly of him.


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## Microphone (Jan 30, 2007)

Fascinating reboot of this conversation guys.
It seems so basic, but sports and spouses are huge hangups and the latter in this case isn't necessarily wrong.
And as basic as streaming is, my wife says spend the extra $$, whatever, a month for Directv. "I want to turn the TV on and punch in 628 to watch the Bruins." And they're there instantly. Me, HNIC Saturday late night 769-1, push and it's there. No click on the Roku NHL app, then going through scores, home or away feed....we're not impatient millennials, I guess we're impatient 50 something year olds. If you're going to sit down and watch the Bruins and Caps from wire to wire basically, then I guess getting to the end point and watching on the NHL.TV app is fine. But if I want to jockey between The Bruins/Caps and the Kings/Preds, whether it be doubleplay or the last channel button, it's so much quicker doing it with a Directv remote.
We're a mixed family...Directv XTRA, Xfinity Basic ($10 only + $5 fees local channels/cable access/New England Cable News and secondary channels not available obviously on Directv) as it's cheaper to have that than not with their bundle.
If I put the whole ball of wax with Xfinity, I'd save $125 for 24 months vs. Directv. But I don't have the time to list the bunch of small things Directv does that Xfinity doesn't (DVR storage, amount of channels that AREN'T in HD blah blah).

So when the goal is to STREAMline, our family has satellite, cable and streams. Go figure.

And I should add I'm not a hopper, been with Directv since 1995.


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Rich said:


> That might be just what I need for getting baseball games. But I don't watch live TV, is MLB gonna have a DVR cloud function? Or leave the games in a cloud for enough time to stream/watch the games? Still have questions.
> 
> Rich


To get my semantics straight, I should point out that their streaming subscription service is actually called MLB.TV, and it can be accessed through their MLB At Bat app (or a web browser).

To answer your Q, you don't need cloud DVR because I'm pretty sure that all games you have access to in your subscription for that season are available to stream on-demand about 90 minutes after the conclusion of each game. At the end of the season though, your subscription ends and so does your access to all those on-demand games. I think a subscription also includes on-demand access to some noteworthy games from years past too. As it's been done so far -- for out-of-market games only -- you can buy access to the entire league (except for your local team) or just to a single out-of-market team for less.

However, if you do stream a live game as it's happening, the app does give you DVR-like controls to pause, rewind, instant replay, etc. Also, their app for Apple TV (4 or 4K) includes a catch-up feature so that if you start watching a live game midway through, it can give you the highlights of what you missed before joining the live stream. And it's all HD at 60 fps.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> Yeah, we watch hockey constantly. Missed four Caps games over the past two weeks while we were out of town, but otherwise I think we've missed maybe one game this whole season (not counting games we attend in person, of course). As noted earlier, I watch all the F1 racing as well. I thought about subscribing to F1's new streaming service for $100 a year, but since I still watch ESPN often enough for college sports and the NFL, I figure it makes more sense to maintain something through which we can watch ESPN.
> 
> The ultimate problem for us is still going to be watching baseball because of MASN's utter intransigence on making a stream available. The Fire TV Cube is not a solution because I understand it gets its location data from your linked mobile phone's GPS via the Alexa app, so a VPN or Unlocator wouldn't work. I suppose we'll have to invest in another Apple TV at some point. I know we could listen on the radio, but we prefer watching on TV. Maybe Peter Angelos will die soon and his heirs will prove more reasonable than he is.


If you have NHL CI, you have NHL.TV. That means you can watch on the road or watch the replays. No need to miss a game unless you were tied up with family comittments.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

trh said:


> If you have NHL CI, you have NHL.TV. That means you can watch on the road or watch the replays. No need to miss a game unless you were tied up with family comittments.


We do not have it because we live in our team's local broadcast area, so they black out the games. Wouldn't have mattered anyway-for some of the games we missed we were driving (some people might watch videos while going 70 mph at night on I-26, but I'm not one of them!), and for the other two we were out at restaurants with relatives. No big deal.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

1995hoo said:


> We do not have it because we live in our team's local broadcast area, so they black out the games. Wouldn't have mattered anyway-for some of the games we missed we were driving (some people might watch videos while going 70 mph at night on I-26, but I'm not one of them!), and for the other two we were out at restaurants with relatives. No big deal.


You should be able to use the NBC sports app to stream Capital games, if they're your local team.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Playstation Vue did a lot White Screen cut outs a lot last night, not good.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Ours only froze up once last night and it was during a commercial. I’m looking forward to watching tonight’s Caps game via Vue. It’s on the alternate RSN channel (NBC Sports Washington Plus) due to a basketball game on the main channel, and on DirecTV the Plus channel would go black (except for a small white square in one corner) at least once per period during hockey. I’m interested to see whether that was a DirecTV problem or a network problem.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I love streaming and paying half price but it seems like everytime there is a big game on there are issues or its delayed 4 mins.
Vue and Hulu , I tried both.
Thinking of going back to Directv


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Watching the pregame show via Vue and there seem to be more interruptions than last night. May switch over to DirecTV if it keeps up just because my wife will complain too much. 

The picture quality via Vue is very sharp, I must say.

Edited after the game: No interruptions during the game, which was great, and we didn’t have the issue with the screen going dark. I’m reasonably happy with Vue after three days. I don’t think we’ll start a paid subscription immediately; for one thing, I need to get a streaming device for downstairs as well as an HDMI-to-component adapter. But we’re leaning towards taking the plunge. Still have to figure out how to watch baseball, though.


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## rccoleman (Oct 10, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> The "almost everything except sports will be available on demand so you don't have to bother recording it" is perhaps the biggest mental adjustment, and it also makes it seem like the cloud DVR functionality the various services offer is likely to be far less important than it initially appears to be (this is coming from someone who constantly records stuff using the DirecTV DVR).


The big counterpoint to this for me is the lack of fast-forward or commercial-skip capabilities with VOD, and the varied amount and type of commercial interruptions with different channels. Several times I've lost my place in a VOD program or had to rewind for one reason or another, and wasn't able to catch up without re-watching the whole thing. I just gave up and found another way to watch the program. This is why a fully-functional DVR (cloud or local) is critical for me, independent of sports.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rccoleman said:


> The big counterpoint to this for me is the lack of fast-forward or commercial-skip capabilities with VOD, and the varied amount and type of commercial interruptions with different channels. Several times I've lost my place in a VOD program or had to rewind for one reason or another, and wasn't able to catch up without re-watching the whole thing. I just gave up and found another way to watch the program. This is why a fully-functional DVR (cloud or local) is critical for me, independent of sports.


Found this article this morning: What Cord Cutters Actually Want Is Cable in Disguise -- The Motley Fool
I understand folks thinking they have to replicate the viewing experience they're used to. My mileage varies greatly on this.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

For cord cutters who are doing it simply to save money, that's probably true. They aren't looking to change how they watch TV, only to change how much they pay to watch TV.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Rich said:


> Found this article this morning: What Cord Cutters Actually Want Is Cable in Disguise -- The Motley Fool
> I understand folks thinking they have to replicate the viewing experience they're used to. My mileage varies greatly on this.
> 
> Rich


I think a lot of people don't know that there are other options. We have a discussion going on a neighborhood forum and one of the common questions is "what channels do you get with Roku?" People don't really understand the concept, and I think that's somewhat understandable.

It's probably an oversimplification to analogize a Roku or other similar device to a provider-neutral cable box, but it seems to help people get the idea (coupled with a comment that the device is simply how you get programming from the Internet to your TV).


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> I think a lot of people don't know that there are other options. We have a discussion going on a neighborhood forum and one of the common questions is "what channels do you get with Roku?" People don't really understand the concept, and I think that's somewhat understandable.
> 
> It's probably an oversimplification to analogize a Roku or other similar device to a provider-neutral cable box, but it seems to help people get the idea (coupled with a comment that the device is simply how you get programming from the Internet to your TV).


It took me a couple years to realize what I could do with streaming options. Once it sunk in I stopped using D* for anything but sports. It takes time and a willingness to make the change. And it's something you have to experience. 
Telling folks how to stream and what the benefits are is difficult and probably futile. Paradigms are difficult to break.

Rich


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

1995hoo said:


> I think a lot of people don't know that there are other options. We have a discussion going on a neighborhood forum and one of the common questions is "what channels do you get with Roku?" People don't really understand the concept, and I think that's somewhat understandable.
> 
> It's probably an oversimplification to analogize a Roku or other similar device to a provider-neutral cable box, but it seems to help people get the idea (coupled with a comment that the device is simply how you get programming from the Internet to your TV).


That is why I usually refer to Netflix as a 'channel' when discussing this with someone who hasn't used one.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

I don't find it at all odd that people think in terms of what channels they'd get rather than what programming they want. Long-time habits are hard to break, and we've thought in terms of channels for a long time (40+ years in my case since I'm in my mid-40s). In a way I guess it's sort of like how some people, usually older people, still think in terms of channel numbers rather than network names, as though the numbers were the same across all providers.

I suppose for some things it makes sense to think in terms of channels—my wife likes to watch Hallmark Channel movies, for example, so it's easier just to get that channel rather than to look at a listing to see what they're airing and then find those movies.

Our Vue trial has gone quite well and we will probably subscribe to it, but I'm going to cancel tonight after the hockey game ends so that we don't get billed tomorrow. As noted earlier, I have to deal a few other things before we make the switch, including the non-trivial task of setting up the downstairs TV and making sure the wireless streaming performance is acceptable given the greater distance from the router.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Of course I still 'dial' my phone.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

trh said:


> Of course I still 'dial' my phone.


And I know people who still 'tape' things.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

rccoleman said:


> The big counterpoint to this for me is the lack of fast-forward or commercial-skip capabilities with VOD, and the varied amount and type of commercial interruptions with different channels. Several times I've lost my place in a VOD program or had to rewind for one reason or another, and wasn't able to catch up without re-watching the whole thing. I just gave up and found another way to watch the program. This is why a fully-functional DVR (cloud or local) is critical for me, independent of sports.


I hate this too. Every now and then I will run across an issue with one of my recordings, and have to catch up using on demand or apps and it is horrible.

For example on a recent episode of a show I watch, the last 5 minutes of the show were missing from our DVR recording because of a bad storm that came thru. I was able to find the episode streaming on one of the apps on my AppleTV 4K so I used it to watch the part I missed. This required me to fast forward thru the entire show to get to where the recording cut out, except the app drops you out of fast forward multiple times to make you watch forced adds. It took me something like 10-15 minutes to fast forward thru 37 minutes of the show so I could see the last 5 minutes I missed. It was very annoying. If I had to deal with that every time I was watching a show and got interrupted and the app somehow lost my place in the show, or every time I fell asleep in the middle of the show and had to start it over again and fast forward to where I was at, I would probably just stop watching that show altogether.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> I hate this too. Every now and then I will run across an issue with one of my recordings, and have to catch up using on demand or apps and it is horrible.
> 
> For example on a recent episode of a show I watch, the last 5 minutes of the show were missing from our DVR recording because of a bad storm that came thru. I was able to find the episode streaming on one of the *apps on my AppleTV 4K* so I used it to watch the part I missed. This required me to fast forward thru the entire show to get to where the recording cut out, except the app drops you out of fast forward multiple times to make you watch forced adds. It took me something like 10-15 minutes to fast forward thru 37 minutes of the show so I could see the last 5 minutes I missed. It was very annoying. If I had to deal with that every time I was watching a show and got interrupted and the app somehow lost my place in the show, or every time I fell asleep in the middle of the show and had to start it over again and fast forward to where I was at, I would probably just stop watching that show altogether.


Which app was that? I use a lot of apps on my ATVs and that sounds like one I'd like to avoid.

Rich


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I don't remember off the top of my head, but I'm assuming it was one of the ABC/CBS/CW/FOX/NBC apps.

Thankfully my DirecTV recordings don't screw up all that often so I don't have to rely on those apps much. 

I mostly just use Netflix and Amazon, and the only issue I have with them is I don't like that the auto play the next episode. Last night I fell asleep in the middle of an episode of Luke Cage, and woke up later with it still playing. Now I've got to go back and try to figure out which episode I was really watching, and then fast forward to try to find where I fell asleep during that episode. I also need to restart all the episodes it played while I was sleeping so it no longer shows them as being watched.

When you start fast forwarding it would bring up the progress bar and you would see the little white tick mark in the bar that represented a commercial break. When you reached that point it would kick you out of fast forward and play the ads, then it would start playing the show again and I would have to fast forward to the next tick mark where it would kick me out again, and so on.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> I don't remember off the top of my head, but I'm assuming it was one of the ABC/CBS/CW/FOX/NBC apps.
> 
> Thankfully my DirecTV recordings don't screw up all that often so I don't have to rely on those apps much.
> 
> ...


I rarely use those apps. I did watch the new _Star Trek_ series on the CBS All Access app and I don't remember being bothered by commercials. Just turned it on and I don't see commercials. I haven't tried the other apps you listed. I avoid commercials. I think one of the biggest benefits of streaming is...no commercials for the most part.

Rich


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

Most of the streaming apps have commercials, with the exceptions of the ones you pay for like CBS All Access, Hulu (if you pay extra), Netflix, Amazon, and the Pay TV channels that have never had them like HBO/Showtime/Starz.

All of the regular OTA and cable channel apps (AMC, TBS, USA, etc) tend to have them. Some work like I talked about before, others will let you fast forward thru the commercial breaks until you find where you need to be in the show, but when you hit play they will show some commercials before it actually starts playing the show. Ones like that I can deal with, but the ones that stop at each commercial break are horrible.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Beerstalker said:


> Most of the streaming apps have commercials, with the exceptions of the ones you pay for like CBS All Access, Hulu (if you pay extra), Netflix, Amazon, and the Pay TV channels that have never had them like HBO/Showtime/Starz.
> 
> All of the regular OTA and cable channel apps (AMC, TBS, USA, etc) tend to have them. Some work like I talked about before, others will let you fast forward thru the commercial breaks until you find where you need to be in the show, but when you hit play they will show some commercials before it actually starts playing the show. Ones like that I can deal with, but the ones that stop at each commercial break are horrible.


Ahh, all the apps we use we pay for. I don't view TV the way most people do. I'm always a season or two behind so I have never had the need to use one of the apps that have commercials. Been that way for many years.

Rich


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Beerstalker said:


> All of the regular OTA and cable channel apps (AMC, TBS, USA, etc) tend to have them. Some work like I talked about before, others will let you fast forward thru the commercial breaks until you find where you need to be in the show, but when you hit play they will show some commercials before it actually starts playing the show. Ones like that I can deal with, but the ones that stop at each commercial break are horrible.


My cable went out all day yesterday, so I missed recording Big Bang Theory, Brooklyn Nine Nine, The Good Place and Orville. I streamed them off the CBS, NBC and Fox sites, and the first two had full sized commercial breaks where they are during the show. I could barely stand it! Fox was nicer, I don't know if I could have handled all the commercials for an hour long show all at once!


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## rccoleman (Oct 10, 2007)

Some of the streaming apps have more limited breaks that just advertise for their own shows and I don't mind those as much. The shows with full-size regular commercial breaks that go on for many minutes just make me tune out. And then there are the daily news/talk shows that increase the number of breaks as the show goes on until they get to <long break><teaser for next short segment><another long break>. It's almost as though they want you to only watch half of the show. The only times that I tolerate commercials are a) live news and b) the Superbowl.


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## bobcnn (Nov 10, 2007)

rccoleman said:


> Some of the streaming apps have more limited breaks that just advertise for their own shows and I don't mind those as much. The shows with full-size regular commercial breaks that go on for many minutes just make me tune out. And then there are the daily news/talk shows that increase the number of breaks as the show goes on until they get to <long break><teaser for next short segment><another long break>. It's almost as though they want you to only watch half of the show. The only times that I tolerate commercials are a) live news and b) the Superbowl.


The other things I have noticed with the network streaming services, they seem to only have a hand full of commercials, and many times when you watch an episode, you will see the same commercial 3 or 4 times. And if you watch more than one episodes, you get the same 3 or 4 commercials. That was a problem with Hulu, it is well worth paying the little extra not to see the same ad over and over. I know I tried the CBS All Access app for a week a couple of times, and every break had the same Mr. Peanut ad.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobcnn said:


> The other things I have noticed with the network streaming services, they seem to only have a hand full of commercials, and many times when you watch an episode, you will see the same commercial 3 or 4 times. And if you watch more than one episodes, you get the same 3 or 4 commercials. That was a problem with Hulu, *it is well worth paying the little extra not to see the same ad over and over.* I know I tried the CBS All Access app for a week a couple of times, and every break had the same Mr. Peanut ad.


Well worth the money. Streaming really spoils you when it comes to commercials. Not having to have the remote in your hands constantly is a pleasure.

Rich


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## NashGuy (Jan 30, 2014)

Beerstalker said:


> I mostly just use Netflix and Amazon, and the only issue I have with them is I don't like that the auto play the next episode.


I don't like the auto play feature either. You can turn it off for Netflix in a web browser:
How can I prevent Netflix from auto-playing episodes?

You can turn it off for Amazon Prime Video in a browser or their app:
Prime Video: Help


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> I don't like the auto play feature either. You can turn it off for Netflix in a web browser:
> How can I prevent Netflix from auto-playing episodes?





> To disable Post-Play's auto-play feature on a *Netflix profile*, navigate to your Account, click Playback Settings, then uncheck the option to Play next episode automatically. Other Post-Play features will still be enabled -- this setting simply turns off automatic playback of the next episode.


Note that on Netflix, that changes the playback settings for a profile. If you and your spouse both have profiles and want to turn off the auto playback, you have to change each profile.


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## shabadoo25 (Jun 30, 2009)

I am working on switching to streaming and this will be our setup:

Apple TV latest generation in main family room, ethernet wired to router
OTA TiVo in main family room ethernet wired to router; bought the unit with lifetime service on a sale a few years back
Roku sticks in other rooms. Will eventually find a deal on a Roku Ultra for a bedroom to ethernet wire through the power outlet adapter to the router
TiVo mini(s) ethernet wired through the power outlets in a bedroom or two
YouTube TV
Philo
Showtime (free due to AT&T unlimited cell service)
Hulu with limited commercials
Amazon Prime Video
Netflix

I might choose another streaming cable option, but they will have to make their DVRs more robust first. A 28-day or less recording expiration window won't cut it for us.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

trh said:


> Note that on Netflix, that changes the playback settings for a profile. If you and your spouse both have profiles and want to turn off the auto playback, you have to change each profile.


And unfortunately their is still no way to turn off NetFlix s most annoying feature of all, the auto play of previews when you are just browsing. It is literally the most despised feature as indicated by every poll and forum and yet NetFlix still refuses to provide the ability to disable it!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Perhaps for $5 more they can introduce a "no previews" mode?


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

I am the other way around. Switched to streaming looking to come back to Directv via SAT.
Even with my rock solid 120 Meg Service with Fiber to the none and zero CRC
I get a lot of white screens, pauses, lots streams with Playstation Vue, Hulu, and Directv, now.
I have tried them all, using the latest Fire TV 4Ks.
It is not so bad with normal shows, but with Sports the streams often get 1-4 mins behind and with others text you score updates your behind.
Also the Cloud DVR for Vue and Hulu they often replace your recording with On Demand content that you cant skip commercials on.

Guess what I am saying is you get what you pay for. . . .
Right I am saving some much, putting in the back that soon, I could afford to get all Movie channels once I switch to Directv. I think I saved $600 so far but with lots of pain and waiting for pauses and forced to watch commercials.

===THE FUTURE===
I am very interested in the new Directv Hybrid solution where you can save $10 a month on your Sat bill if your bring your own locals. With Dish you save $12 but they are missing most of the OTA guide data.
Search for the LCC thread there, very interesting idea. Once they get this and finish adding all the OTA local guide data, I think I will be ready to switch.

In other words bring your own Local OTA channels (I get 37) , save a little, and have a really good DVR and no drops or buffering and pay more.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> And unfortunately their is still no way to turn off NetFlix s most annoying feature of all, the auto play of previews when you are just browsing. It is literally the most despised feature as indicated by every poll and forum and yet NetFlix still refuses to provide the ability to disable it!


It has never bothered me.

Amazon Prime Video on Fire TV has Auto Preview that you can't disable. Longer time to start than Netflix though.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Speaking of the future and the Direct Hybrid solution did I just see Directv add a new channel called Chedder News?

and it does not come from the SAT, instead the channel calls a mini app on the genie then then streams the channel over the web live?

I ask as there are tons of free web channels out there with commercials, just look at Pluto TV App, if Directv can add some maybe we would get the Weather Nation channel back, it streams for free on the web now along with COMET and other Sinclair owned Digi channels (they also have a free app full of free streaming channels not on the SAT, most of their Digi Nets)


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

trh said:


> It has never bothered me.
> 
> Amazon Prime Video on Fire TV has Auto Preview that you can't disable. Longer time to start than Netflix though.


To each his own for sure. Thankfully on FireTV as long as you turn off "Allow Video Autoplay" and "Allow Audio Autoplay" off in Settings/Preferences it only happens on a few rows and a few shows...which I avoid like the plague...LOL!


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

James Long said:


> Perhaps for $5 more they can introduce a "no previews" mode?


I hate it...not enough to pay $60 a year to avoid it though...LOL You used to be able to turn that feature off. They just need to enable that ability again. My guess is that they have some pretty solid market research that says they make more money with that feature permanently on. That would be the only reason why they would put up with what I am sure is constant customer complaints to keep it enabled.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

trh said:


> It has never bothered me.
> 
> Amazon Prime Video on Fire TV has Auto Preview that you can't disable. Longer time to start than Netflix though.


Minor annoyance, forgivable considering what we get from NF, I think.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mjwagner said:


> I hate it...not enough to pay $60 a year to avoid it though...LOL You used to be able to turn that feature off. They just need to enable that ability again. My guess is that they have some pretty solid market research that says they make more money with that feature permanently on. That would be the only reason why they would put up with what I am sure is constant customer complaints to keep it enabled.


I've watched some good programs I wouldn't have if not for the autoplay. Yeah, it can be annoying but if that's all we have to say bad about NF...well, that's pretty good. Think of how much complain about a much more expensive service that doesn't have anywhere near the content of NF...D*.

Rich


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rich said:


> I've watched some good programs I wouldn't have if not for the autoplay. Yeah, it can be annoying but if that's all we have to say bad about NF...well, that's pretty good. Think of how much complain about a much more expensive service that doesn't have anywhere near the content of NF...D*.


More expensive because they are delivering content you will not see on Netflix.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> More expensive because they are delivering content you will not see on Netflix.


What would that content be besides sports and PBS programs?

Rich


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

We have a winner! (Although I doubt you want to claim Netflix has EVERYTHING except sports and PBS. Perhaps everything you care about except sports and PBS?)


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## rccoleman (Oct 10, 2007)

The Netflix trailer auto-play annoys me so much that I try to move onto the next option before it starts. It's sort of a race to see if I can read the synopsis and make a decision before it starts blaring some intro music.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

rccoleman said:


> The Netflix trailer auto-play annoys me so much that I try to move onto the next option before it starts. It's sort of a race to see if I can read the synopsis and make a decision before it starts blaring some intro music.


I don't have Netflix but I am in the habit of hitting mute at the end of shows I watch on my DVR so I don't have to hear whatever programming the DVR takes me back to between playing back events.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> We have a winner! (Although I doubt you want to claim Netflix has EVERYTHING except sports and PBS. Perhaps everything you care about except sports and PBS?)


Yup, I'm as egocentric as most people.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rccoleman said:


> The Netflix trailer auto-play annoys me so much that I try to move onto the next option before it starts. It's sort of a race to see if I can read the synopsis and make a decision before it starts blaring some intro music.


The thing I like the most is it tells me if the program is in English. That's a big deal for me. I don't like sitting down to what I think is gonna be a great movie only to find out it's in a language that I can't deal with. I watch programs in Spanish and use CC but that doesn't work well with other languages.

Rich


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## rccoleman (Oct 10, 2007)

Rich said:


> The thing I like the most is it tells me if the program is in English. That's a big deal for me. I don't like sitting down to what I think is gonna be a great movie only to find out it's in a language that I can't deal with. I watch programs in Spanish and use CC but that doesn't work well with other languages.
> 
> Rich


A lot of foreign Netflix series are dubbed into other languages now. I watched a few with subtitles last year, and was surprised to see that new ones have lots of different spoken languages to choose from. Whether you can stomach the mismatched visuals is up to you, but using the trailer as an indicator of language hasn't been a good predictor for me lately.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

rccoleman said:


> A lot of foreign Netflix series are dubbed into other languages now. I watched a few with subtitles last year, and was surprised to see that new ones have lots of different spoken languages to choose from. Whether you can stomach the mismatched visuals is up to you, but using the trailer as an indicator of language hasn't been a good predictor for me lately.


Oh yeah, I don't know how many dubbed movies I've given up on. I just can't watch them. I don't think I've ever seen any indication of dubbing on the NF shows...until the dubbing begins. The descriptions always make the shows sound good or I wouldn't keep getting sucked in.

I didn't mean I used the trailers for particular languages other than Spanish (shows like _Narcos _where there's a lot of Spanish spoken) and English. Seems like if the show is in English the people in the trailer speak. Don't remember seeing that in dubbed trailers.

Rich


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Updating on our exploration of different options: I picked up a Fire Stick 4K for the master bedroom TV last weekend because it was on sale; we don’t have a 4K TV, but since it was the same price as the standard device and is downwards-compatible there was no reason not to get that one. I picked it up at Best Buy rather than ordering from Amazon because Best Buy had a promo going where your purchase includes a free 30-day trial of Sling TV. 

I’m watching the Blues–Preds game on NBC via Sling right now through the Fire Cube and I have it running simultaneously on the same TV via DirecTV so I can switch inputs to compare. (The TV that has the Fire Stick is not connected to DirecTV, but when I go upstairs I may try comparing the Sling broadcast to the rabbit ears we have up there.)

My initial impression of Sling is less positive than my impression of Vue last month. The picture doesn’t feel as smooth when they’re using the standard camera angle that lets you see one whole end of the ice. I can’t put my finger on why it is, but the picture feels a little choppy. I noted this morning when I turned on a British soccer game on NBCSN via Sling (I didn’t watch for long, I think it was Spurs) that the picture seemed grainy and it was hard to read jersey numbers. As I typed that, the Predators just shot the puck down the ice and the camera panned quickly; the image felt very choppy, almost like the broadcast couldn’t keep up with the signal. My wife just said it feels “mechanical.”

Sling is also missing several channels we want that Vue has, so on the whole I think it’ll be an easy decision. 

We are not trying the Sling DVR because I don’t want to pay the $5. It’s not included in the free subscription. 

I do like Sling’s program guide better than Vue’s due to its more conventional setup with the network name on the left and the programming arranged horizontally. Vue’s vertical arrangement is weird. But that’s relatively minor.

My wife donated her customary $100 to our PBS affiliate and got her Passport login, so I set that up. She seemed quite impressed by it all but hasn’t watched it yet. I think this afternoon I’ll have to type up a little cheat sheet explaining how to access it, although I guess since our DirecTV subscription is still active it’s not a big deal yet.


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## mjwagner (Oct 8, 2005)

1995hoo said:


> Updating on our exploration of different options: I picked up a Fire Stick 4K for the master bedroom TV last weekend because it was on sale; we don't have a 4K TV, but since it was the same price as the standard device and is downwards-compatible there was no reason not to get that one. I picked it up at Best Buy rather than ordering from Amazon because Best Buy had a promo going where your purchase includes a free 30-day trial of Sling TV.
> 
> I'm watching the Blues-Preds game on NBC via Sling right now through the Fire Cube and I have it running simultaneously on the same TV via DirecTV so I can switch inputs to compare. (The TV that has the Fire Stick is not connected to DirecTV, but when I go upstairs I may try comparing the Sling broadcast to the rabbit ears we have up there.)
> 
> ...


If you dont like the native PSVue guide the Amazon FireTV Stick 4k has its own PSVue guide right on the on the home screen. Just page down a few lines and you will see one called live tv or something like that. To the left you can click on "guide" and you get a more traditional guide. Amazon is starting to do some interesting integration with PSVue.


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## 1995hoo (May 14, 2004)

Thanks for that. Our Vue subscription is currently inactive (cancelled at the end of the free trial to avoid being charged), but I think that's the way we'll likely go, so I appreciate that info. Still trying to figure out what to do about baseball, though. I understand VPNs will work with the Fire Stick but won't with the Cube because supposedly the Cube gets location data from the Alexa app on your phone. So I might stick a refurbished Apple TV on the TV where the Cube is.


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