# Does anyone think that the 721 SW upgrade will happen in the next 2 days?



## greylar (Oct 31, 2002)

This is just getting comical. How many times now have we heard... "OH yea absolutely, next month FOR SURE".... I'll believe it when i see it.

Greylar


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

No, I don't think so.


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## sbturner (Jul 24, 2002)

P Smith said:


> No, I don't think so.


no way


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

Considing that it will include SuperDish 105/121 support, I can see them holding off the upgrade until SuperDish is needed. It appears that SuperDish software support is now in the 6000 & 4900. So I'd expect the 721 software to be out within the next month. Maybe not in the next two days though.


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## Chaos (Apr 24, 2002)

BTW, if no one remembers, tomorrow is Tuesday, Sept 30. All 721 software releases have happened on Tuesdays....


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## Patrick G. (Sep 10, 2002)

greylar said:


> Does anyone think that the 721 SW upgrade will happen in the next 2 days?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

There MIGHT be a good reason to minimize the number of upgrades///\

No doubt each upgrade generates some CSR calls. Hey why is my receiver doing XXX???

Having very few larger upgrades might slow the number of calls....


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## greylar (Oct 31, 2002)

Bob Haller said:


> Having very few larger upgrades might slow the number of calls....


Or completely inundate the CSR's when they do happen.

G


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## the_beaver (Feb 15, 2003)

hey...where's scott grezzzxydhleski???
i have noticed his absence and actually
kinda miss his everily optimistic spin 
on update dates and dish news, etc...


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

the_beaver said:


> hey...where's scott grezzzxydhleski???
> i have noticed his absence and actually
> kinda miss his everily optimistic spin
> on update dates and dish news, etc...


Scott now longer works here. He has opened his own forum.

It will be interesting to see if they roll the software out tonight. Cross you fingers.


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## DmitriA (Aug 6, 2002)

Cyclone said:


> Considing that it will include SuperDish 105/121 support, I can see them holding off the upgrade until SuperDish is needed. It appears that SuperDish software support is now in the 6000 & 4900. So I'd expect the 721 software to be out within the next month. Maybe not in the next two days though.


Which does not imply that they are going to roll out the software with the new features that most people here have been waiting for almost a year now. At this point, I wouldn't be at all shocked to see them release new upgrade that includes the SuperDish code and nothing else.


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## treiher (Oct 24, 2002)

> Does anyone think that the 721 SW upgrade will happen in the next 2 days?


 . . . . No!


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

Well, in Dish's defense, they have never come here and said it would be by XXX date... correct me if I'm wrong though!

That's not to say they aren't woefully remiss in customer support and features on the 721. But they themselves haven't promised any dates here (or have they and I've missed it?)


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

I thought they said "by end of september" during the last tech chat.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

They also said the end of september when I e-mailed them about it last month.

Dennis


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

It works the same way when my wife asks what time I will get home on any given night after work. She has learned to add 15-60 minutes to any estimates I give her and I would recommend that you do the same with E* (only substitute "days" for "minutes").


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## marshalk (Jun 9, 2002)

My guess is that we will have the update by the end of August per the promise of some time ago. A mere 11 months away.


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## pjmrt (Jul 17, 2003)

Since the "end of September" is just a few hours away now, it looks like we'll be waiting longer. At this rate the 721 will be retired by the time they actually release the update.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> Since the "end of September" is just a few hours away now, it looks like we'll be waiting longer. At this rate the 721 will be retired by the time they actually release the update.


Curses! You have uncovered the E* plot to leech money from the consumer with false promises! You must now be eliminated.


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## lonnman (Nov 16, 2002)

<sarcasm>
Actually the new software will have all the DVOD stuff in it . You will be able to pause and record!!!! They will keep their promise and not charge a fee for the 721, but the new software will upgrade your machine to a 721DVOD+ system, and then charge you the monthly fee.
</sarcasm>

<dripping_sarcasm>
Maybe if we watch the next Charlie Chat he will tell use.
</dripping_sarcasm>

Me personally I can't justify buying the 921, knowing the 721 is based on the same software and that we will be getting these speedy upgrades and/or *BUG* fixes. If you add the new fee's on to the $1k price tag it bites.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

It's funny..... I was watching a DVD (Eddie Izzard's new "Circle" DVD just came out......) and I noticed that my 721 was blinking green and then the red record light started blinking.

Could this be?!!??? The UPDATE??????

Nope, two 10pm timers firing tripped it up and it rebooted. Sigh.

How long until the 921? At least I could have some HD while they are working OK.........


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Congrsats oits october first! No upgrade. 

Maybe they meant by september 2008?


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2003)

Bob they are waiting for you to switch to directv before they send out the upgrade. 

Please switch, enough of your *****ing and moaning PLEASE you are bringing a good site down (it was a great site before but Scott's no longer here)

This place should be renamed Bobknowsitallandlovesto*****.com as thats what it has turned into.

Sam


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Sam Spade 

The IP Address is: 65.110.6.34
The host name is: router.proxyweb.net

Hiding behind a proxy to attack others is kind of un-cool don't you think?


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## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

sbturner said:


> no way


Not a snowball's chance in HE double hockey sticks


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## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

BobMurdoch said:


> It works the same way when my wife asks what time I will get home on any given night after work. She has learned to add 15-60 minutes to any estimates I give her and I would recommend that you do the same with E* (only substitute "days" for "minutes").


Given their track record, days is hardly sufficient. Perhaps weeks is more appropriate.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> Sam Spade
> 
> The IP Address is: 65.110.6.34
> The host name is: router.proxyweb.net
> ...


Why Christopher does the truth hurt?

The truth is the truth.

I come via this route because my office has dbstalk blocked.

And BTW whats with publicly posting people IP address, isnt that a violation of your own privacy policies here at dbstalk?

Man this place went down the sh*tter quick. (Yeah I know you will hide this in one of the other forums and close it quick, its becoming the norm for dbstalk)

Sam

*post edited for language, not for content. Whoever you are Sam you are welcome to your opinion, but you are not welcome to use the language in this forum - Mark Lamutt *


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2003)

Sam Spade said:


> *post edited for language, not for content. Whoever you are Sam you are welcome to your opinion, but you are not welcome to use the language in this forum - Mark Lamutt *


Thanks Mark, I meant to say crapper not sh*tter.  Sorry about that.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

I haven't seen a lot of complaining out of Bob, and even if I had, I'd probably agree with him. Express your displeasure with any given company that is performing poorly... hopefully it will keep other people from making the same mistake.

I know I wish I had found out all these problems with the 721 before I bought mine, but I didn't know about this site. I find all the "*****ing and moaning" to be a valuable resource... nothing is better than first hand experience with poor products for making an informed decision.


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## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

Inaba said:


> I haven't seen a lot of complaining out of Bob, and even if I had, I'd probably agree with him. Express your displeasure with any given company that is performing poorly... hopefully it will keep other people from making the same mistake.
> 
> I know I wish I had found out *all these problems* with the 721 before I bought mine, but I didn't know about this site. I find all the "*****ing and moaning" to be a valuable resource... nothing is better than first hand experience with poor products for making an informed decision.


Well, for every one of you and Bob there are likely 30 people like me that have very few if any problems. I've had the occasional reboot, and two (total) 0 minute recordings, plus a recent weird event where it said my hard drive was full - but all of those in about 12 months. My SW-64 went out, but it was over 3 years old and had spent much of that in an attic that likely reached 130. Not really much broken. Of course, I want the upgrade because it offers more features and should resolve some bugs, but overall the 721 is simply the best thing since sliced bread.

Living in a digital world, one has to expect problems. Period. This is because software has virtually an infinite number of scenarios to handle whereas the analog world usually had 2 or so. Given the fact that anyone with a 721 is definitely an "early adopter," you really can't be expecting perfection and if you are - you should move on to another (older) product (with less features).

The only real problem is that DISH needs to learn how to manage software releases a bit better. Feature creep is a huge problem in development and always leads to what we have seen with the oft promised (but never delivered) "next release" for the 721.

And, I'd have to say Bob does lead the B&M group. I would not be surprised if they have a note on his account with what to do when he calls.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> Of course, I want the upgrade because it offers more features and should resolve some bugs, but overall the 721 is simply the best thing since sliced bread.


That's your opinion, and if you feel that way, great. But feature for feature, the 721 is the worst of the lot, hands down, without question. The ONLY thing it has going for it that EVERY other PVR does NOT have is the two tuners. Every other feature the 721 has that has any meaning (games not withstanding) is on and has been on every other PVR on the market today. How the 721 can be the best thing since sliced bread when it's lagging behind every other comparable product in features and reliability on the market is beyond me.



> Living in a digital world, one has to expect problems. Period. This is because software has virtually an infinite number of scenarios to handle whereas the analog world usually had 2 or so. Given the fact that anyone with a 721 is definitely an "early adopter," you really can't be expecting perfection and if you are - you should move on to another (older) product (with less features).


I find this very sad that you are so brainwashed and conditioned by years of BSOD and shoddy companies releasing shoddy hardware/software to actually believe this. This tought process you exhibit is the exact reason why companies like Dish can get away with near criminal behavior in the commercial market.

There are countless companies that produce both hardware and software that release with few to NO bugs at all... you just never hear/think about them. Why? Because they don't intrude upon your daily life by FAILING.

A fine example that you might be familiar with is, say, your digital camera or MP3 player. Do they ever crash/reset spontaneously? Do they ship with features promised on the package/website/product literature? Yes, for the most part they do. You don't think about it, because they haven't failed you. They perform as ADVERTISED and just how you would expect. They contain the features you are expecting, which generally equates to the features that are in competing products. If your digital camera didn't have a flash, you'd be suprised, even if they didn't mention it on the package that it was lacking a flash, you'd be shocked to find out, once you opened it, there was no flash. Why? Because EVERY single other competing product has a flash, why should you expect the camera you just bought to come without a common, obvious feature? The same goes for a volume control on an MP3 player. Boy, wouldn't it be a suprise to not have a volume control! I don't know how old you are, but there was a time when a few select Walkman's didn't come with a volume control (you had to rely on the headphones to control volume).

The point is, living in a digital world does not equate to expecting software/hardware to fail. Nothing changes for companies who seriously want to compete in the marketplace. They have to have what's called Quality Control. Dish lacks this in spades.

The 721 is pretty old, I don't consider myself an early adopter (I purchased mine 3 or 4 months ago) - anything that's been on the shelf for more than a year is not "early adoption." Especially given the fact that the 721 has now been effectively superceded by the 921, making the 721 "old" equipment. How you can consider "old equipment" and "early adoption" in the same sentence stretchs credibility. To add insult to that injury, the Tivo has been out for how many years now? 6 or so at least... the 721 is measured against the Tivo, PVRs have been on the market for as long as Tivo has (and longer) - thus buying a PVR is not "early adoption" by any reasonable definition. A consumer has every right to expect a PVR from Dish to measure up to a PVR from DTV, Tivo, Replay, etc...

Like it or not, the 721 is last in line as far as features and reliability goes. What compounds this problem is the total lack of support and concerne Dish shows it's customers with it's continually missed dates and what is looking to amount to outright lies.


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## Bill R (Dec 20, 2002)

jcrash said:


> Overall the 721 is simply the best thing since sliced bread.


When I read something like that I have to question if the poster is talking about the same model I have.

The 721, even is it didn't have bugs (and the current software has a lot), is not really great compared to what else is out there. The problem is that most posters that think it is so great have never even seen the "other side". Those of us that have, know better.

The 721 is not as good as it could be (and we wonder if it ever will be) nor is it as bad as some say it is. How good it is for a particular customer depends of what one expects from a DVR. As for me, I expect a LOT more.


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## jcrash (Jul 22, 2002)

Inaba said:


> yadayadayada


Last in line in features and reliability? Last in what line? How long is that line? Given the percentage of people with PVR's and the number of choices, anyone with a PVR today is an early adopter. Period. Anyone with a 721 can most likely be considered a _technology enthusiast_. Technology products have different curves. VCR's were quickly adopted along with CD's. Satellite television was slower and had much lower penetration. Interestingly, satellite radio looks likely to achieve unexpected deep market penetration and within it's first five years it will probably surpass satellite television penetration. There is a great example of your _flawless_ digital product. Just a minor difference - or 20 - between multi-compression ratio digital video and 5.1 digital audio (simulcast with stereo) broadcast of a 1000 channels or so into a variety of switches and ages of hardware including multi-tuner recording to hard drives and the single ratio broadcast of stereo audio to technology that actually benefitted from coming after video.

Truth is, Dish sucks at software design and release - I admit that, but the 721 still rocks when compare with the way 98% of Americans and 99.9% of the world's population watches television.

End of story.

Meant to link this up there -


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

jcrash said:


> Given the percentage of people with PVR's and the number of choices, anyone with a PVR today is an early adopter. Period.


I totally disagree. Being an "early adopter" is based on how long the technology has been out, not how many people have it. I had Replay for 2 years and I've had my 721 for almost a year now, and the Replay software blows away the 721. From a UI and reliablity standpoint, it's not even close.

So if Replay was able to have solid PVRs out 3 years ago if not earlier than that, there's no reason Dish can't have a solid PVR today.

Dennis


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## shortiemcgee (Jul 31, 2003)

Your graph states "consumers want technology and performance" in the early stages. I think this is where Dish is failing. The performance is not up to snuff.

People who shelled out the money for a 721 didn't expect it to be "last in line in performance". Who cares if that line is long or short? I think a realistic expectation is that Dish should be near the front of the line, dare I say that Dish should 'lead the pack".

Also, who cares if it's better than 99% of how other people watch TV. I'm sure I spent more money on hardware than 99% of people watching TV so shouldn't I expect more? I'm not comparing myself to the masses, either. I want from the 721 what people using TiVo have. I want from the 721 what it was advertised to do and do it reliably. I can honestly say I have not gotten what I paid for.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> Last in line in features and reliability? Last in what line? How long is that line? Given the percentage of people with PVR's and the number of choices, anyone with a PVR today is an early adopter. Period. Anyone with a 721 can most likely be considered a technology enthusiast.


Are you intentionally being obtuse, or do you honestly not know what "line" I was referring to? To clear up any confusion, the "line" is the line of PVRs out on the market today. Dish PVRs are LAST in that line in terms of reliability and features. That is the line I was referring to.

dbronstein and shortiemcgee already responded with about what I would have said, so I won't reiterate it. Dish is piss-poor in the PVR market. If you haven't played with the competition, you may not know what you're missing... that's great. They say ignorance in bliss, and it sure is true in the PVR market. But once you are enlightened as to what's out there as far as PVR software and reliablity goes, the 721 is a total joke.


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