# Becoming a DBS retailer



## AJ2086 (Jun 1, 2002)

How does one become a DBS retailer and sell the equipement? How much does it cost, how do you go about becoming an authorized retailer. Can someone help me figure this out for my friend?


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

I would suggest that your friend go to the CES show next month in LV. He could not only find out requirements for a dealership for DBS, but could also investigate other products that he could handle along with satellite.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AJ2086 _
> *How does one become a DBS retailer and sell the equipement? How much does it cost, how do you go about becoming an authorized retailer. Can someone help me figure this out for my friend? *


If you're interested in selling DirecTV, check out http://www.retailer.directv.com


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

Becoming a DishNetwork retailer is about as easy as becoming a DishNetwork customer. You don't need a storefront or even a truck. All you need is business license and a tax id. You fill out some forms, order some systems, order some installation equipment(at the lowest prices you'll find anywhere by a ton), start advertising and that's it. You won't get the programming or name of DirecTV, but you'll have such low overhead that you'll be able to undercut anybody and aim for the low end of the market. That might not be sexy, but that's where the economy is. I'm a DishNetwork retailer and I'm servicing the economy. When the economy sucks, people 
want to penny pinch.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

To be a DirecTV retailer you need a storefront, more expensive license, and I think more training. Your overhead will be much higher, and you'll have to compete head on against the big boys: Best Buy, Circuit CIty, ABC Warehouse, and Blockbuster.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

You don't have to go tot CES or even the retailer's summit. That's just a waste of money and overhead that could be used to entice more customers. 

NITE!!!!!!!!! NITE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Not In This Economy
Not In This Economy


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

I looked into becoming a dishnetwork retailer some time ago, and I was told the requirements were much more stringent that that... they specifically wanted a storefront.

jeffwtux... I'd like to find out more about your experience... PM me with a good way to speak to you about it.


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## AJ2086 (Jun 1, 2002)

Oh, so it isnt worth it.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> You don't have to go tot CES or even the retailer's summit. That's just a waste of money and overhead that could be used to entice more customers.


I never said that he had to go to either of the shows, I suggested that he go so he could educate himself properly *and* sign up to deal in accessories that could supplement his satellite business. Such things as home theater equipment, televisions, installation gear, etc. are great items to have access to to supplement the profit margins. If AJ plans on doing satellite alone, with no accessories or side lines, I would say don't bother.



> they specifically wanted a storefront.


Things have changed considerably since the early days of Dish. When they first started they just wanted bodies to get out there to promote and sell against the already established DirecTv. I signed up with no storefront by going to the SBCA show where they turned on Echostar I. I ordered 6 systems at the show and had them shipped to the apartment I was living in at the time (I had sold my house in anticipation of the Florida move). Of course, I signed up as a "suite #" rather than an apartment number, but I had no problem. I had been doing big dish sales and installs for about 6 years BD (before Dish) operating out of my house, once again, with no storefront.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

You can probably sign up to be a dealer with one of the Echostar regional distributors in your area although you will need to convince them you are a retail business with a commercial office or storefront. They may or may not check this fact out.

There really isn`t much of a financial future in the sat business anymore and both companies ( especially Dish ) are finding new ways all the time to chargeback your commission payments .... so why bother.

Matter of fact, one of the Comcast companies out of Atlanta this week announced a $400.00 buy your dish plan they were starting, to pull people away from satellite. The first day the call center was shut down due to a surge of calls from people wanting to switch !


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Being a satellite retailer is MUCH MUCH MUCH tougher than you think, customers will stab you in the back along with Dish Network, they will rip you off, not pay you what they owe you, badmouth you, and not appreciate the free or reduced price in service work you perform for them. It used to be different than this at times but is becoming the norm.


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## stugil (Apr 24, 2002)

I wouldn't want to be a dish retailer in Connecticut. Directv has the locals and Dish doesn't.The few I've talked to have been left in the dark just like us customers left to wonder about locals.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *Being a satellite retailer is MUCH MUCH MUCH tougher than you think, customers will stab you in the back along with Dish Network, they will rip you off, not pay you what they owe you, badmouth you, and not appreciate the free or reduced price in service work you perform for them. It used to be different than this at times but is becoming the norm. *


You probably stated this situation about as good as one can :righton:

Customers use to come into my shop and tell me what the other dealer up the street could do a job for and how little they would charge them. I would simply reply: If you are happy with them, why are you here ? At that point either they would walk out in disgust ( because they knew I was not playing their game ) or they would sit down, shut up and tell me exactly what they want and listen to how much money I needed to do the job 

Then you had all of the international customers who were always trying to "make the new customer deal happen" just for them although they only wanted an international programming package  I actually had two Egyptian brothers ( big mothers) try and back me into the corner of my office and threaten me because I would not give them a cheap new customer price on an install. Being a descendant of the Sicilian Italians, they found out that would not fly... real quick 

You will probably agree the worst customers out there are the religious folks. The worst, I mean, the worst customer we EVER had was a protestant couple who use to have their home answering machine recite a Bible Psalm at the beginning of the message :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jrjcd (Apr 23, 2002)

i would suggest that you do this on new year's eve WNEB YOU'RE REALLY, REALLY LOADED as i can't imagine ANYONE in FULL POSSESSION of their faculties EVER getting involved in this racket under the current climate... 

to be honest, if you do do it, make it a small part(really small)of a custom home theatre set up biz-you REALLY don't want to base your WHOLE livelihood on the whims of charlie and(to a lesser extent)eddy-of the two, it's easier to become an E* dealer as the most difficult test you have to pass is the mirror test-becoming a dish dealer is easy-keeping your sanity and a positive outlook, not to mention having your money stolen at every opportunity, comes after and is considered the fun part. Becoming a DTV dealer is a bit more difficult, but while the rewards(monetary) are less, they tend to be more permanant...if you live in a Peg area, keep in mind that Peg tends to flop about between being good to sell for and being a bigger robber baron than charlie tuna... 

I myself am getting out of the bix after seven years-it hasn't been enjoyable OR profitable for the last three years in any case and i spent two thirds of my time chasing down my money from E*-life's just too short(and for the charlie lovers on the board-no, i didn't operate using funny biz tactics and yes, i crossed ALL my "t"'s and dotted all my "i"'s in quintricate(five originals to cover my hind quarters)) 

if you are looking to get into your own business, you would better choose something more service oriented...


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Also with more people having satellite television there are not as many customers to retrieve now like their used to be. The good customers are not as easy to get now, increased competition, lowballers, people switching services often, the poor economy, badmouthing csr's, and so forth has all became a problem in which I did not have in the beginning so badly until now.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

I guess the key in my mind is knowing your market and finding ways to target it. I only advertise in the 4 suburbs of Detroit that have Time Warner Cable which is the minority player in my city. They can't afford to offer $400 buyback deals. They only offer $200 deals and even then it's only off of the digital teir bill. Most of my customers are coming from analog basic with 2 TVs. That buyback deal is worthless to them. There is also a huge young Indian population which is another source of customers.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

I agree with the retail services backstabbing though. They will get away with murder if you let them. They hate me because I don't take Sh*t from anbyody. The biggest outrage is the lost UPC label from the quad LNBF box for the DHP quad reimbursement. They won't accept a xerox copy. So if it gets lost, you're screwed according to their policy whether it was your fault or theirs no matter what. Well,. I've twiced harassed people up the chain of command until they submitted. That could easily be avoided by accepting either a copy or by excpeting the UPS shipping label which contained the same exact unique information to that order alone as the UPC label. The fact they don't accept the UPS label tells you that they think that for every one of me that will raise hell till I get my proper reimbursement, they'll be 2 others that won't bother.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

I've insinuated to them that they count on incomplete reimbursements in part of their earnings expectations. That really offends them. Hey, when I see a pattern, I start to make assumptions.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> There is also a huge young Indian population which is another source of customers.


Is that of the native American variety or the Asian Indian variety. I used to do a ton of C-Band business on a reservation in Minnesota soon after a casino was opened that distributed profits to the members of the tribe. This was a niche that no one else was going after and was VERY lucrative for me before I left Minnesota. I wish I could find a similar niche here. Nothing beats getting into a tight nitche group and marketing into that group.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

E screws their dealers. Sub dies? Chargeback. Hey this WASNT the dealers fault. Anyone who becomes a E dealer today is nuts...

Sorry I know its negative but its the truth.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffwtux _
> * There is also a huge young Indian population which is another source of customers. *


BUT, don't forget to tell him that Dish does NOT pay dealers activation fees, nor do they offer dealers free equipment promos for customers that take international channels only. (BUT, of course E* routinely offers it DIRECTLY to customers...    )


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

Well, no I don't get commission DIRECTLY from the installation of an satellite at 61.5 or 148, but I give away commission all the time anyways. Instead of paying them $80 to install a 2 receiver system, I'll install both dishes for free.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

What is Dish's reply for backcharges that was not the retailer's fault? We pay a commission based on an average in which some things that cannot be helped will happen, in which the commission amount makes up for some of that. They also say that if they cannot make the money off of the customer then they have no money themselves to pay us from that customer. They say they have all of this money subsidized in each customer. I can see their point there but the money subsidized is the retailer's commission for the most part, in which if a customer does keep the service on for so long and if Dish does in fact make money off of the hardware, then Dish did make a profit, not lose one, if the retailer gets charged back. At least they do not backcharge the whole amount but they do backcharge for the installation. 

One thing I do not get is how come does Dish charge the customer a cancellation fee and backcharge the retailer both? Dish should not be backcharging the retailer if they got the money from the customer. They are double dipping and actually making a profit off of that. Dish figures they want to make a profit whether the customer stays or not. Think about it.


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

That's the Asian Indian variety.


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## dishrich (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffwtux _
> *Well, no I don't get commission DIRECTLY from the installation of an satellite at 61.5 or 148, but I give away commission all the time anyways. Instead of paying them $80 to install a 2 receiver system, I'll install both dishes for free. *


No, what I'M talking about is customers that take ONLY international prog, (NO AT package) on which E* does NOT pay you an activation fee, as well as you ONLY point a dish at a side sat. And like I pointed out above, dealers CANNOT get compensated to give FREE equipment away for these type of customers. And MOST ethnic customers seem to do this, since they typically have MANY TV's around the house & would just as soon keep cable & use DISH ONLY for international prog.

That's nice you can afford to stay in business GIVING away your services like FREE 2nd dish installs - I sure as hell can't...:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: Are you saying you also give away FREE install AND FREE equipment to international only customers, knowing you DON'T get activation/equipment fees from DISH???


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## jeffwtux (Apr 27, 2002)

No. If they only want International programming, I can't do it either.


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## raj2001 (Nov 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffwtux _
> *That's the Asian Indian variety. *


Hate to nitpick, but "Native Americans" emigrated to here from Asia too, although at a much earlier date than anyone else.

Indians from India are referred to as "East Indians".


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

> Indians from India are referred to as "East Indians".


I knew that, but my fingers got ahead of my brain when I was typing.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by dishrich _
> *
> 
> No, what I'M talking about is customers that take ONLY international prog, (NO AT package) on which E* does NOT pay you an activation fee, as well as you ONLY point a dish at a side sat. And like I pointed out above, dealers CANNOT get compensated to give FREE equipment away for these type of customers. And MOST ethnic customers seem to do this, since they typically have MANY TV's around the house & would just as soon keep cable & use DISH ONLY for international prog.*


Exactly,

I use to have a baited script ( so to speak ) just for the Indian customers when I was a dealer.

For the few of them that truly wanted full American and Asian programming, we fixed them up with a great deal. For the others that wanted to activate an AT package just for a few days to get the new customer deals and then pull the plug leaving just the Asian programming on, we sent them down the road with outrageous installation prices :lol:


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

And we are Native Americans. Ia m NOT that sensitive but if we are going to correct the other....


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

When I called about becoming a retailer, they sent me to CVS Systems. Are there other distributors you can buy from or are you obligated to buy from CVS?


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by John Corn _
> *When I called about becoming a retailer, they sent me to CVS Systems. Are there other distributors you can buy from or are you obligated to buy from CVS? *


Distributors like CVS are contracted to cover certain regions of the country for the smaller non-storefront dealers, unless things have changed since I was a retailer.

Some advice for you: If you become a dealer, try to avoid purchasing through distributor at all cost. They will simply stall any paperwork and take twice as long to research for you any chargebacks ( which you "WILL" have ) and if Dish makes the VERY RARE assumption that they owe you any charge back money, it can take months to receive it 

Personally, I would not recommend anyone attempting to become a DBS retailer at this time :shrug:


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## George_F (Dec 25, 2002)

Frapp, your saying you wouldn't have to purchase the equipment from the distributor, yet you can still do the install?......I'm lost.

Does CVS and E* normally drag there feet on chargebacks?


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by George_F _
> *Frapp, your saying you wouldn't have to purchase the equipment from the distributor, yet you can still do the install?......I'm lost.
> 
> Does CVS and E* normally drag there feet on chargebacks? *


Sorry for the confusion here. I was trying to imply that if at all possible, sign up directly with E* instead of a distributor, that is if you can meet the stipulations such as being a commercial store front/office. Remember though, they very likely may not check this fact.

As far as charge backs, honestly speaking of the $1000,s of dollars in charge backs I had over the years, some were paid reasonably quickly and some took literally months and several long distance calls to collect. It was probably a 60/40 split in favor of the longer term to collect on most of them. Also remember though, few of the charge backs actually qualify for repayment with E*


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## pernar (Jan 20, 2003)

I have a question about these chargebacks: Why not just have the customer sign a contract? If they cancel service and you're charged back, bill them for the amount of the chargeback. Since you have a contract, take them to small claims if they don't pay.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

Is there anybody here that uses CVS, could you PM me?
I considered doing it partime as a supplemental income.

pernar, doesn't sound like a bad idea, I'm willing to bet somewhere in the paperwork you sign to become a retailer this is prohibited.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by pernar _
> *I have a question about these chargebacks: Why not just have the customer sign a contract? If they cancel service and you're charged back, bill them for the amount of the chargeback. Since you have a contract, take them to small claims if they don't pay. *


LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:

We use to have EVERY customer sign a contract that was fully explained and simple to read, be a first time customer and keep programming for a year. With the current "ME" generation, everyone we tried to charge back if they disconnected would call us and say, I am going to sue you, I am going to take your business, I am going to report you to Dish or DirecTV.

Once and a while we got reported to the ACLU, sometimes we got nasty letters from attorneys, ets ..... basically contracts today are a total joke :shrug:


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## pernar (Jan 20, 2003)

Frapp,

That is completely ridiculous. What are these people going to sue you for? If you're doing uninsured work, that's a completely different story, but billing someone due to a breach of contract isn't out of the ordinary. I can't imagine what some of the letters you get are like. "I'm sorry my client is completely ignorant, but he's breaking his contract."


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I have had a few people report me to Dish but Dish did not do anything. They would blame me for every little thing or get mad that I charged a service charge. I have not tried to collect on most of the contracts in which the customer shut their service off causing me a chargeback. 

I figured it would be more hassle than it is worth, they would badmouth me to everyone, try to sue me for crap I did not do and make up things, report me to Dish, and so forth. By the time I mess with that I could have had me another customer or two without all of that hassle making up for what I had lost. The only time I go after the customer is if I did not receive all of the money for the system then I pick it up.

People sure will spread around bad things but rarely the good things. That is how it is in this business. If they even think you did something wrong, whether you did or not, they spread that around, you do something good, they rarely spread that around.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by John Corn _
> *<snip>pernar, doesn't sound like a bad idea, I'm willing to bet somewhere in the paperwork you sign to become a retailer this is prohibited. *


Funny, but a true DirecTV story here:

A few years ago when I was selling a lot of DirecTV systems, I received a call one day from the regional DTV dealer rep stating that the head of his department ( in California no less ) somehow found out that we were having customers print out or come in and sign a one year programming agreement in order to buy at discount prices. Nothing fancy, just the basic one year of minimum programming, new customer spiel, etc, etc, etc. Our rep informed me that I was NOT to make the customer sign or agree to a contract and if I did not immediately stop, they would pull my dealership. Now take in consideration that every DirecTV system we bought at that time was discounted by DirecTV $125.00 and if the card in the system was not activated they charged your commission account for that. Now multiply this by selling about a 100 systems per month and factor in the piracy problems of the last few years.

Obviously, I told them ok and then came up with another way to get around them on this. The TOTALLY FUNNY catch to this story is within a year of that event, the RCA & Sony distributors began to try and "Educate" dealers on how to tie the customer into a year of programming. This was followed by an "Official" dealer packet on how to get your customers to sign into a one year contract to prevent charge backs.

I told my distributors: I think I am surrounded by lunatics   

P.S. I am so glad to be out of the crazy world of satellite retailing :hi:


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

That is pretty messed up. I have read on the retailer forums where the retailers were not allowed to have the customers sign a contract for a year. Dish has never done that, probably would recommend it to try to encourage them to stay on for a year. Maybe its because the retailer would not try to prevent customers from shutting the service off if they had a recourse for their money, that they would just let it happen.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jeffwtux _
> *To be a DirecTV retailer you need a storefront, more expensive license, and I think more training. Your overhead will be much higher, and you'll have to compete head on against the big boys: Best Buy, Circuit CIty, ABC Warehouse, and Blockbuster. *


You do the same with Dish: Sears, WalMart, RadioShack, Costco.


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## George_F (Dec 25, 2002)

What are the benefits of being a store front retailer as compared to a NON store front retailer?

John Corn, Have you spoke with anyone here at DBSTalk yet that uses CVS and is a non store front retailer. Sounds to me I'm like you in considering being a Dish retailer on a partime basis as a supplemental income.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by George_F _
> *What are the benefits of being a store front retailer as compared to a NON store front retailer?
> *


Most importantly, less overhead. Wihtout the storefornt, you lose the "marketing" aspect of a storefront and the credibility of a storefront, in addition to the "Walk-ins." Someone also has to man the storefront during business hours...more $.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

And if you have a bad run of business where your customers will not pay their bills or you do not have business for several weeks, then at least you do not have to worry about the expenses piling up. If you have overhead at a storefront location you cannot afford for that to happen, you shut down pretty quickly just because of a bad run. Who can afford to keep a place open without sales for a while during a bad run just to have to catch up when sales begin again. Especially with the way the economy is going, its bad news.

It would not be a bad idea if you can get regular business, or have a small building beside where you live where people can come to your house after hours or you go to the building after hours or something like that, to keep your overhead down.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

Better to have a strong website, great marketing and a professional presentation (uniform, marked van).

Remember to incorporate to protect yourself. C corp is preferable, but s-Corp is OK. Don't forget the insurance.....less without a storefront.

Your issue may come down to DirecTV not allowing you to provide service without that storefront. I believe Dish is OK with that.


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

George, no I haven't.

What does incorporating do for me as a partime retailer?

What the difference between c corp and s corp?

Any idea how much insurance would be? Guess a retailer needs some insurance in case they were to damage somones home?


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

John, i wouldn't incorporate out of the gate. A corporation can insulate you from some personal liabilities when you get to that stage, but will only cost you more money right now.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

S corp is best, you get simplified filing and the income/loss at the business just goes strait to your 1040. S corps have limits like 40 stockholders or something like that, but for small companies they are great. You will probably have to have an accountant do the tax forms every year.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by John Corn _
> *George, no I haven't.
> 
> What does incorporating do for me as a partime retailer?
> ...


As a corporation, if you were to drop a dish on a customer's head and kill them by mistake, or punch a hole in their roof while you fall through, when you are sued, they sue the company, not you personally. That way, you and your family's assets are protected.

Where you have to be careful is the ability to pierce the corporate veil. If you use your corporate assets for personal use (van on weekends, employees come over and mow your lawn), the plantiff can make the case the entity is not segregated from your personal assets. Talk to a lawyer about this.

Insurance should be the same, but you need to get separate corporate insurance. You'll need to get some quotes and shop around.


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## cnsf (Jun 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Neil Derryberry _
> *John, i wouldn't incorporate out of the gate. A corporation can insulate you from some personal liabilities when you get to that stage, but will only cost you more money right now. *


Shouldn't if he is an S Corp. This is the kind of corp that can be declared on your personal tax return, but gives you the same benefits as a C corp with less hassle.

Again, the investment in a lawyer would be prudent.


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Lets say you drill a hole to run the coax The drill knicks a wire inside the wall but you have no way to know that. One week later theres a fire. The customers insurance decides it was your fault and sues you for $100,000 for rebuilding the house. You dont have 100K, so they confiscate your home and sell it to pay the insurance company back

If you a corporation they cant touch any assets you own privately.

Coud be someone trips over a wire your running and get hurt. 

Be sure to tell your auto insurance your now using your van or whatever for work. Your premiums will go up a lot, but if you dont tell them and have a accident they may deny your coverage.

Dont foirget about 14% of your gross profit go to uncle sams social security account, along with your regular income tax rate, Paying 40 % of gross income in various taxes is the norm for the self employeed.

14% SS, 20% income tax, 3% state income tax, 1% local income tax, plus some other smaller ones that add up too.

Then let us not forget the wonderful folks at dish.

You do a great install of a system for a old couple. 3 months later one dies The remaing one goes to a personal care hoime and YOUR bank account is electroinically debited for the chargeback.

Or your nice new customer gets missinformed by a CSR HOW COULD THAT HAPPEN? and cancels. again chargeback.

Or that shiney new PVR acts flakey, the new sub gets irritated cancels and converts to direct after checking the internet and finding both forums now report this is a normal expected part of being a dish customer.

Again a chargeback Then you wonder why your working for free....

Of course there are aklways the nrmal pitfalls of running a business, dumb ciustomers, lost shpments, disappearing things, bad emoployees, stuff that despite your best afforts doesnt work. Then you can feel bad if you sell friends a dish receiver and later software makes it buggy.

Nop do you understand why I quit?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Or they tell you that you have to drive several hundred miles to some city you never been before to have to find some place at 8 am to pay $200 for training and a test for stuff you already know and having to be there from 8 am to 5 pm and if you fail the test in which many had and you are out of your trip, your money, and Dish will not pay you for install work anymore and you have to pay some guy who knows how much to do the work for you even though you do them all yourself because you do not have 'that' much business and able to do them yourself. 

Then on top of that they tell you that they are going to make you pay $100 more for a system than what it retails for, you do not make a profit on the system anyways in the first place. So you lose another $100 due to that, then if you get a backcharge after losing all of these commissions you are in the hole, and you do not make hardly anything anyways after expense if you do not even get a chargeback. 

Customers do not pay their bills, someone selling DirecTv lies or somehow convinces them to switch over, they lose their job, someone that programs cards goes around asking if they want their card done seeing the dish on their house, and so forth, according to reports I have been given. Nothing that I have done yet I am the one that suffers as a result. I had a bad rash of customers over a certain period of time and then they cut almost all your commissions, after all the other customers I had given them.

I was going to hold out until locals came but it may be too late now. I also think they made an error on my rating to be charging me $100 more per system in which I ordered none yet after they told me that. I would have had to lose half my customer base to get that kind of rating according to them and I definitely did not lose that many customers.

This is a HORRIBLE time to be a retailer, it would not have been as bad before but now they are making it more difficult.

Did I mention Dish Network CSR's badmouthing you telling your customers that you have no right to charge for a service call and telling them that you are not a retailer? What do you think the customer said after I told them that I go along with what Dish Network charges and sometimes a little less? "You are not a retailer, you cannot go by anyone's prices if you do not sell product for them." In which puts me in a real bad situation. 

CSR's are responsible for some of my chargebacks and disconnects, then Dish puts the blame on you, the retailer, for why it happens. Other disconnects result in the above, but they most of the time do not pay their bill. I do not lowball either.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Jacob S _
> *Or they tell you that you have to drive several hundred miles to some city you never been before to have to find some place at 8 am to pay $200 for training and a test for stuff you already know and having to be there from 8 am to 5 pm and if you fail the test in which many had and you are out of your trip, your money, and Dish will not pay you for install work anymore and you have to pay some guy who knows how much to do the work for you even though you do them all yourself because you do not have 'that' much business and able to do them yourself.
> 
> Then on top of that they tell you that they are going to make you pay $100 more for a system than what it retails for, you do not make a profit on the system anyways in the first place. So you lose another $100 due to that, then if you get a backcharge after losing all of these commissions you are in the hole, and you do not make hardly anything anyways after expense if you do not even get a chargeback.
> ...


Jacob, it sounds like you have been around as long as I have to know all of these sleazy facts about consumers and Dish.

The funny thing to me always was, the customer bought the system and had installation and good service from me, but yet I was the last person he would believe when a problem came about :shrug:

In others words, a stranger from a Dish call center whom the customer never met carried a lot more weight than myself..... never could figure that one out


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

You got that right. They believe someone they never met that does not know what they are talking about anyways and cannot do anything for them over someone that they have met and can actually do something for them. Why dont they ask the person on the phone to come over and fix the problem? They probably would not know how.

I have been in business for 4 years and this crap comes all of a sudden. I tell my customers to call me first about any problem, because I can help them with it. A lot of times they do not. That would save a lot of problems in the first place.

I think one of the biggest problems is customers ordering too many channels and/or skipping a bill and then when the next one comes, its really high and then the customer freaks out, dont have the money to pay it, or just dont pay it, and you know what happens next.

Did it take all of these requirements and all of this treatment towards the retailers to get where we are at now and for the satellite customers to have all the customers and business they do now? NO, definitely not. This is their way to take over themselves.

I predict that they will keep on and keep on until there are very few or no retailers left. There will be a place just like the cable company one per county or region in which you pay your bill, get service, sign up for service and so forth. This will save the company LOTS of money when it comes to paying the retailers their commissions. This is where things are heading. Either that or certain selected retailers that are left will be the ones in which will be doing these things at their location. Does DNSC ring a bell? It will be downsizing and operating on their own with employees at a much cheaper rate. 

I think this is a good possibility of happening. What do you guys think?


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2003)

Keep in mind too, the ball rolls down the hill the other direction too...

Being on the other end of the line, customers freak when they're charged for non downloaded PPV's since the inst was too lazy too hook up a phone line, the installer is too lazy to call us to activate (gives the info to the customer and leaves) uses a twin lnbf with diplexors to hook up 4 recievers, and install recievers and never take the initial software download for them.

Also, retailers that tell dhp cust's to take the AEP the first month since they get it for free and leave it to the CSR to strighten out when the cust gets the first bill, realized that it's for two months, and then have to call 30 days later to change the service, incurring a $5 transaction fee and prorates. Retailers that give us already-used club dish numbers, retailers who read the reciever and smartcard #'s off the box/bag instead of the screen, and end up giving us numbers from their previous install.

This is just breaking the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of good indi retailers out there. There's a lot of bad ones too. Same with DNSC. The chargeback system for retailers needs a huge overhaul, IMHO. Dish needs to stop double dipping (ie charging the $240 cancel fee to the customer and also charging back the retailer)


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Yes, I do agree with you. They ARE double-dipping charing retailers and customers BOTH cancellation fees. The reatailer is being charged for what the customer had done and if the customer cancelled programming too early, the customer should have to pay the cancellation fees. On the other hand, if the retailer received a good commission for getting a good customer, then I can see where they would want to charge back because there was no money made and if there is no money to be made the where would the money come from if there is no customer for money to be made?

The retailer has cost in the install and overhead as well as time put forth. When there is backcharging going on then there is more lost than just the money, but the money put in it. In other words not all the money received is profit but money spent getting it put in. When there is a non-credit card promotion the retailer is backcharged where the customer is charged nothing. 

Since all customers get a promotion now there should be a charge directly to the customer for early termination. The satellite company charges the retailer back because they do not always get the money from the customer. This is why there should be a termation fee in which would be greater to compensate for that in which would average out overall. Even though that may not sound fair, the end result would be better deals to the consumer in which would make up for more would be charged anyways. The bad part is there would be even more lowballing in which is not good for servicing retailers.


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## George_F (Dec 25, 2002)

Wow sounds like a tough buissness! I'm not so sure If I should attempt this on a partime basis......:shrug: 

I know I could get a few customers in the begining from friends and family, but after that what do I do? Are there any retailers here that work a fulltime job and do this on the side? I guess it's the marketing that bothers me.


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## Frapp (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by George_F _
> *Wow sounds like a tough buissness! I'm not so sure If I should attempt this on a partime basis......:shrug:
> 
> I know I could get a few customers in the begining from friends and family, but after that what do I do? Are there any retailers here that work a fulltime job and do this on the side? I guess it's the marketing that bothers me. *


In all honesty, you should not attempt becoming a retailer, part or full time, it simply is not profitable. Put your time and money in something else that suits you.

BTW.. Having you family and friends for customers is probably the worst thing you could do if you did become a retailer. Anytime , and I do mean anytime ( middle of the night, etc ) that someones system goes out or they want to know: How do I do this or How do I do that ..... your phone will be a ringing, unlisted phone number you say ??? ... No problem, they will "COME TO YOUR HOUSE" day or night :shrug:


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

You got that right, they come to my house or call during certain times at night expecting a quick fix the same night sometimes and getting all grouchy at me for something that was not my fault or a Dish outage.


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