# Audio dropouts?



## BKC

Anyone other than me noticing a lot of audio dropouts? I notice it more on Speed but it is on other channels too. I did a RBR but it didn't do a thing to help. HR20-100

Last night I timed it a couple times and it would have a quick dropout five times in seven minutes. Once in awhile you can notice a little stutter in the picture at the same time. Receiver taking a dump maybe? It's been like this for a week and it's starting to get annoying. lol TIA


----------



## tsduke

Yes, at first I thought it was just a particular channel, but noticing it on 2 or 3 channels so far.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167728


----------



## BKC

Well that's two of I guess. It's starting to get pretty old... :lol:


----------



## tsduke

Had a couple dropouts so far on ESPN HD during first 30 minutes of Iowa-NW game.


----------



## tsduke

These are really getting annoying. Is nobody else experience these dropouts?


----------



## dwlevy

Yes, I've been experiencing them as well, at least since the last software update on both of my HR20-100s. I haven't really noticed them on my HR20-700, but I do watch it less than the other two boxes.

They usually only last for a second, happen fairly infrequently, but do occur on multiple HD channels.


----------



## bobnielsen

A few days ago, one of the locals lost audio completely but it would return if I switched to another channel and back. It happened three times, but since then all has been normal.


----------



## sigma1914

I turned on Speed today & it had serious audio issues.


----------



## RACJ2

I was watching local PBS HD and had my first brrriippp in a while. Mainly been the sound dropouts lately.


----------



## azjerry

I've noticed on several different channels as well.


----------



## Rob77

yes...both on some national and local channels


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> I turned on Speed today & it had serious audio issues.


Thank you! That's the worst one for me. Now that someone mentioned it above, it was right around the time of the update for me too. :nono2:


----------



## tsduke

It got really bad on ESPN at one point today. I called and reported. This has to be a software issue because I'm getting it on both my HR22's.


----------



## sigma1914

I think the dropouts on ESPN2 & Speed are not software or HR caused, but problems with the channels and Directv's signal. ESPN had it bad a few years ago & Directv fixed it.


----------



## Tom Servo

At least for me, the brrrip audio dropouts are pretty constant on certain channels like Speed on the DVR. 

Lately I've noticed that Animal Planet doesn't dropout like the other HD channels, instead it just st-t-t-t-t-t-utters for 10 or 15 seconds, then "pops" back to normalcy. Weird.

I'd really love to know what causes some HD channels to have audio dropouts but not others, and why it seems to affect some receivers more than others. 

We just got PBS HD locally (B'ham) and it is the most dropout prone channel out of all of them, both audio and video. It's a mess. Strangely, when it debuted, our CW HD affiliate began getting worse. Makes me wonder if some of the other national channels begin acting up when channels are added/subtracted from whatever transponder they're on. Maybe it's a load balancing issue.


----------



## TANK

I had the drop outs last night on ESPN 2, they stopped when I went into the HR 23 menu to turn off DD. Never had any dropouts before the last firmware upgrade.


----------



## techntrek

Constant small brrrips and dropouts on some programs from the "big 3" lately. While watching a recent Law and Order recording last night there were entire sections where the audio track had a very slight - but very annoying - constant "vibration". Kind of like a brrrip but with the audio still understandable.

And yes, I think this has been much more prevalent since the last national software update.


----------



## DarkAudit

Lots of dropouts during the Venture Bros. last night. To the point that the return from break had nearly a minute of full silence. Funny though, it was only during the actual show. No dropouts during the commercial break.


----------



## Miggity

Yes I've been experiencing this on all channels for about 2 months.


----------



## gnahc79

ever since 0x368 it's been happening more often . Food Network, NBC, ESPN...except Disney Channel has been dropout-free.


----------



## ndole

DarkAudit said:


> Lots of dropouts during the Venture Bros. last night. To the point that the return from break had nearly a minute of full silence. Funny though, it was only during the actual show. No dropouts during the commercial break.


Big +1

Waited all that time for a new season, and it was _almost_ unwatchable. I thought it was an issue with that receiver, so i huffed and puffed my way to the bedroom (where I have it recorded on the other HR unit) and saw that it had identical dropouts. LAME!
I was happy to learn that a.s. will start doing re-runs of the new episodes. So maybe I can see (and hear) what I missed for that whole minute.


----------



## brucegrr

Drop-outs here too. Annoying.


----------



## Tom Servo

DarkAudit said:


> No dropouts during the commercial break.


_Of course not._
</conspiracy theorist>

:lol:


----------



## berniec

TONS of dropouts, every few minutes, during Monday Night Football on ESPN.


----------



## weaver6

berniec said:


> TONS of dropouts, every few minutes, during Monday Night Football on ESPN.


Same here.


----------



## Rocko62580

berniec said:


> TONS of dropouts, every few minutes, during Monday Night Football on ESPN.


Me too!


----------



## hasan

Rocko62580 said:


> Me too!


Me three...at least on the recording, I couldn't watch it live.


----------



## Doug Brott

When you guys say "dropout" are you referring to the screen getting black and audio stopping completely for 3-5 seconds?


----------



## Bill Broderick

^ I just have the audio drop for 2-3 seconds. My screen doesn't go black. If it appears that I'm missing something important, I rewind a little, turn closed captioning on and read what I've missed.


----------



## Doug Brott

I've seen issues like this, and maybe it's just my TV that goes black so both audio and video are out for a few seconds. I'm pretty sure this is from the source, probably during the encoding phase. It's probably just happening on the MPEG4 channels (mostly HD, bu some SD). Either way, this is not a software issue on the STB. Doesn't mean it's not a problem and not happening, though.

I see it happen rather infrequently, especially over the last 2-3 weeks .. even before that, it was not often. Could be that equipment is being changed out and tweaked and we are seeing these momentary hiccups. Hopefully it will continue to improve as we move forward.


----------



## Bill Broderick

Doug Brott said:


> I'm pretty sure this is from the source, probably during the encoding phase. It's probably just happening on the MPEG4 channels (mostly HD, bu some SD). Either way, this is not a software issue on the STB.


I don't agree. The drop outs are not consistent from box to box. Just the other day, I had the same program recorded on two different HD DVR's. A drop out that occurred on one box, did not occur on the other.


----------



## cygnusloop

Lots of audio dropout on (my recording of) MNF on ESPNHD last night for me too. Almost always audio only, but there were a couple of times that it was accompanied by a blank (black) screen as well. When rewinding, they were always in the same spot (with the same duration and quality), suggesting that it happened during recording, not during playback.


----------



## Doug Brott

Bill Broderick said:


> I don't agree. The drop outs are not consistent from box to box. Just the other day, I had the same program recorded on two different HD DVR's. A drop out that occurred on one box, did not occur on the other.


I've seen the dropouts occur during Live TV at the exact same time on 2 different STBs attached to two different dish distribution systems (one SWM, one WB68 attached to two separate dishes on my roof). What I saw may not be what is being described here, but it sure sounds similar.


----------



## pecocus

Doug Brott said:


> I've seen the dropouts occur during Live TV at the exact same time on 2 different STBs attached to two different dish distribution systems (one SWM, one WB68 attached to two separate dishes on my roof). What I saw may not be what is being described here, but it sure sounds similar.


I can't help but wonder if it's not the retransmission from DirectTV rather than the source material. I get it on our HD locals a lot, but my friends watching either OTA or via cable don't seem to see (hear?) it happening.


----------



## sigma1914

cygnusloop said:


> Lots of audio dropout on (my recording of) MNF on ESPNHD last night for me too. Almost always audio only, but there were a couple of times that it was accompanied by a blank (black) screen as well. When rewinding, they were always in the same spot (with the same duration and quality), suggesting that it happened during recording, not during playback.


To me, the fact that replaying where the dropout occurred, suggests that Directv's transmission or ESPN is at fault & not the boxes.


----------



## cygnusloop

sigma1914 said:


> To me, the fact that replaying where the dropout occurred, suggests that Directv's transmission or ESPN is at fault & not the boxes.


I think your likely correct, however, the fact that it is in the recording could also suggest it was a hiccup in the box (momentary lack of resources??) as the recording was happening. But, as I said, I think you are likely correct. Now if we could correlate the same hiccup on multiple boxes, well, then....


----------



## alnielsen

I'm getting audio studder intermittently from both live and recorded broadcasts on my HR receiver. Using the replay function on the remote corrects the problem. I don't use the SD receivers enough to know if it happens there too.


----------



## hasan

Doug Brott said:


> When you guys say "dropout" are you referring to the screen getting black and audio stopping completely for 3-5 seconds?


I'm reporting just an audio drop, video held fine, with no hint of a disruption. It's easy to confuse a lot of these issues (hence your request for clarification), but in this particular case, it is a very clean audio drop, just like a hole was punched in the stream. No stutter, no accompanying video issue, just a clean hole.


----------



## tsduke

Yup. As hasan said. Just an audio drop. Nothing else skips a beat.


----------



## brucegrr

Like Hasan said. No video disruption. No brrrpp. Just a brief spot of no sound 2-4 seconds long. This is an every day occurrence for me and multiple channels.


----------



## brucegrr

cygnusloop said:


> Now if we could correlate the same hiccup on multiple boxes, well, then....


Or type of audio connection hdmi,optical digital , rca etc.


----------



## Bourbon

HR21/100 0x368 
Been dealing with this BS for a while. Definitely software related. I've had limited success in unplugging for at least a minute. Got an old HD Tivo unit upstairs with no problems.


----------



## mickcris

Bourbon said:


> HR21/100 0x368
> Been dealing with this BS for a while. Definitely software related. I've had limited success in unplugging for at least a minute. Got an old HD Tivo unit upstairs with no problems.


this is an issue with the mpeg4 channels. HD tivo cannot receive the channels that are having problems.


----------



## jazzyjez

I've seen a noticeable increase in audio only dropouts since the last s/w update on my HR20-700. Watching a recording of "Lie to me" (Fox) had, at a guess, around 20 dropouts during the hour-long episode. Each audio dropout was very brief, I'd guess about a second or less (i.e. partial to whole word missing), and there was no disturbance at all to the video which was perfect throughout - certainly no pixellation that would have been the first indicator of any signal strength issues.


----------



## BKC

My dropouts are still going strong. Most are audio only but every once in awhile if you watch closely the pic. will freeze for a split second. I really have to be paying attention to notice it though. Sure would be nice if this was fixed soon.........


----------



## ehilbert1

I'm also having lots of dropouts on recorded shows. It was on every show I recorded the last few nights on my HR20. I tested this and recorded the same shows on our R10 and the R10 shows were fine. I hope D* has a fix for this soon. It's getting really annoying.


----------



## Stryker412

The past few nights when viewing recorded material, I've had intermittent audio drops. I've had the box since April and this is the first time it's been doing this. Smallville the other night was almost unwatchable (not because of content) due to the massive audio drops. Then watching Californication last night, we had 2-3 drops.

I don't watch much "Live" TV anymore, so I will have to see if it's only on my recorded shows or not.


----------



## mickcris

ehilbert1 said:


> I'm also having lots of dropouts on recorded shows. It was on every show I recorded the last few nights on my HR20. I tested this and recorded the same shows on our R10 and the R10 shows were fine. I hope D* has a fix for this soon. It's getting really annoying.


Were these shows recorded in SD on the HR20's or HD?


----------



## ehilbert1

mickcris said:


> Were these shows recorded in SD on the HR20's or HD?


It was in HD on my HR20. I'm going to try recording in SD on the HR20 tonight and I will see if it's just in HD. I tried again last night to watch Criminal Minds in HD and I had to stop. I was dropping audio like crazy.


----------



## BKC

I watched Criminal Minds OTA in HD and it was fine.


----------



## walker

same thing here. glad to hear (no pun intended) that I'm not alone. its becoming pretty annoying.


----------



## Tom Servo

So this thread is talking about actual audio dropouts and not the "brrrippp", correct?

I wonder if some of these issues are actually brrrippp issues; I get the hiccup on my TV but if I'm using the receiver in Dolby Digital mode, the brrrippp just gets muted for several seconds, which is actually more annoying since it cuts out ALL the audio.

Maybe this is the same problem just manifesting itself differently for different types of audio decoders?


----------



## BKC

For what it's worth I emailed DTV and of course they wanted me to call them. lol I just sent this thread back to them. Hi guys


----------



## hasan

Tom Servo said:


> So this thread is talking about actual audio dropouts and not the "brrrippp", correct?
> 
> I wonder if some of these issues are actually brrrippp issues; I get the hiccup on my TV but if I'm using the receiver in Dolby Digital mode, the brrrippp just gets muted for several seconds, which is actually more annoying since it cuts out ALL the audio.
> 
> Maybe this is the same problem just manifesting itself differently for different types of audio decoders?


No, it is not brrrp. It could be related (in that they are trying to fix the brrrp, and this is what we got so far...no brrrp, just a "hole". I'm not convinced either way (related or not), but we are talking about two easily differentiated symptoms, one is a brrrp (which this thread is not discussing) and the other is an outright clean hole in the audio. The two are impossible to confuse (in observation) in that they sound completely different.


----------



## brucegrr

I have brrpps and dropouts. Far far far more dropouts. Most every program at least once. Some programs far more often and some channels like ESPN or the Showtime channels it is pretty common.

I do not know if this is an HD only problem? I rarely watch any SD so I have no frame of reference.


----------



## fornold

I am noticing a lot of audio dropouts on Cartoon Network HD right now. Very annoying.


----------



## tomlin

TANK said:


> I had the drop outs last night on ESPN 2, they stopped when I went into the HR 23 menu to turn off DD. Never had any dropouts before the last firmware upgrade.


I posted a longer version of this in the "HR2x 0x0368" forum (I don't have enough posts to give the actual URL)

I haven't noticed the brrrrrrrp for a while now, but the short (less than a second) audio dropouts have been more frequent. It's been approx 4 hours since I turned DD off. So far, so good.

I have an HR22.


----------



## BKC

You guys should email them if you have the time to mess with them. So far they have told me to reset the box several times even though I told them I already did that in the first email. It's pretty comical/sad.


----------



## tsduke

I called about the time this thread started.


----------



## Davenlr

tsduke said:


> I called about the time this thread started.


Im convinced it doesnt do any good to call them. They told me the last time I called them, that they do not even have DirecTv available to them in the call center, so they cannot even tune in a problem channel to verify its a nationwide problem that a RESET wont fix. Then they find out you dont have the protection plan, and want to send a $$$ tech to check it. Its next to impossible to convince them its a nationwide problem, so I just quit calling. My head hurts from banging it against the brick wall.


----------



## gquiring

You can add me to the list. Dropouts not bripps. I also have noticed a lip sync problem on TNT for days now. I reset the box and no better. I don't get it, I have had D* since 1995, back then it just worked. Today it's like we have beta service 24/7.


----------



## ehilbert1

I think it's just the HD channels. I recorded some things over the weekend in HD and SD on my HR20 and the HD channels had the audio dropouts. The SD recordings were fine. It really sucks that I have to record in SD. I called D* and they had no idea what it could be. All I know is it used to be just fine and now its unwatchable.


----------



## sailermon

It is definitely HD only and could be just MP4. My wife, who watches SD on a R-15 DVR asked me how I con stand to watch this and ask me not to upgrade her to HD until this is fixed.

I don't think the problem is the source material and suspect it is related to the software and/or compression. I have noticed subtle changes with each software release. Less blurps and more dropouts, but overall things are getting worse. I notice it the most on HD local NBC, KCRA-TV Sacramento, CA. This seems to be more prevalent during the weather, which has a lot of detailed graphics (radar). I am not an expert on this by any means but it makes me suspect the compression software. This would also explain why it happens so often during high action sports (ESPN).

I wish the software guys would spend more time fixing these basic picture quality related types of problems before adding extra "nice to have" features that are not critical like MRV, DLBB, thumbnails for cast and crew, media sharing, etc. Please get your priorities straight DTV and remember that customer satisfaction is everything.


----------



## gquiring

Watching Smallville tonight on ch 11 the audio dropouts during the last 15 minutes was beyond bad. Zero issues with the picture, just 3-5 second audio dropouts.


----------



## brucegrr

Continues to be annoying. On Thursday I watched ESPN, ESPN 2 and the NFL channel. (Basketball, football)

The audio dropouts were far too often on every channel.

I hope this problem is on Directv's radar. Calling tech support accomplishes nothing because the usual restart, reboot, etc answers change nothing. This is not an end-user issue. (something the end user can "fix") It is a hardware/software/program issue.


----------



## Taltizer

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIFnorail.jsp?assetId=P4960016#h:694.536

Someone will contact you and try to get your problem resolved asap its helped me in the past.

Directv's Office Of the President.
They are customer advocates


----------



## brucegrr

I sent the email. Got a call this morning. The lady who responded to my email was very polite and said she would check with the engineers about this issue. She has read this thread and is aware of the issues.

She told me they have nothing in their database about this problem.

She asked if I had called Directv and gone through "troubleshooting". I told her that we were well beyond doing this and that this is a hardware/software/program issue. (and not a tech 101, reboot, check the cable, etc issue)

We'll see what happens from here. I was very pleased with Directv's response. May not fix the problem but they were proactive and prompt in their response.


----------



## brucegrr

The lady from Directv asked if perhaps we could document specific time/program instances so here goes.....

Watched a HD recording of SyFy Stargate Universe, 4 audio dropouts.

Watched a HD recording Of National Geographic The First Jesus, 3 audio dropouts


----------



## BKC

They said they would call me but never did. Tell her to watch ESPN2 or Speed and answer her own questions.


----------



## brucegrr

I don't think the audio dropouts are an every customer problem.


----------



## betterdan

I have been getting audio dropouts too. I had no idea so many people had been getting them.


----------



## mdwood

I've been getting them for about a week too, some video blackouts as well. Watching the Packers/9ers game and the video drops every once in a while.


----------



## Holydoc

Audio drop-outs for me too here in the Florida Panhandle. I will see if I can remember to document time and channel for now on.


----------



## jfor26

I live in central PA and watching the eagles game tonight is horrible.!!!!!. not like i am missing much.


----------



## Stryker412

I had audio dropouts watching a recording of "Stargate Universe". Also, "Smallville" this week was almost unwatchable. Huge portions of audio dropped out. I think there was maybe one or two during "Friday Night Lights" as well.


----------



## Todd H

I'm getting audio dropouts, video dropouts, and brrrpps. Not happy.


----------



## BKC

Mine seem to be going to other channels now. There were quite a few dropouts during the nascar race yesterday. (ABC out of NY)


----------



## CATCRAW

I have the same issue with audio dropouts and it seems to be on all channels. I am sure that it started with the current sw download. I say that because I had a HR21 go bad and DTV replaced it with a new HR22. It was on the older version of sw when I installed it and it worked fine - no audio dropouts. A few days later the new sw download came and the audio dropouts along with it. So at least for me I can say it came with the latest sw download.


----------



## direfan

I am getting both audio dropouts and stuttering and pixellation. Very annoying. I have not called customer service as they will send a technician out. I think this is a problem at the DTV end.


----------



## iamqnow

walker said:


> same thing here. glad to hear (no pun intended) that I'm not alone. its becoming pretty annoying.


The audio dropouts are getting worse and very annoying. This is such a widespread issue one would like to think it is being addressed. Happens on every channel I watch, although it is worse on some of them.


----------



## mndwalsh

agreed with getting worse. Watched a recorded Dexter last night and it happened at least 6-8 times. Recording was from 11/22


----------



## axiom

Monday Night Countdown this week on ESPN HD had so many audio dropouts that I lost count.


----------



## bkaczor

I have Direct HD and have Stuttering Audio on PBS, History and Science Channels. It is much worse on the PBS Channel. I talked to someone at Direct and he told me that they were having problems some kind of conversion process. I have been having this problem since installation and was told that they were working on the problem. I called several times and they told me I could take my business elsewhere. I would do just that if not for the holes in my new roof. It is just hard to believe that no one seems to care that their service is crummy. Maybe if enough of us complain, they will get it fixed.


----------



## BKC

If I had a choice I would leave.


----------



## chrisfowler99

DarkAudit said:


> Lots of dropouts during the Venture Bros. last night. To the point that the return from break had nearly a minute of full silence. Funny though, it was only during the actual show. No dropouts during the commercial break.


Same here...and a little bit at the beginning of this week's episode.


----------



## Gern Blansten

Seems that a majority of our recordings have sound drop outs with pixelation. Both network and DTV and is HD.


----------



## Macfan

When it drops out, the display on my receiver switches modes. It appears to be related to a dolby signal that drops out or something. i have an Onkyo 807. One night it dropped out for several minutes, and I was able to get it back by switching sound modes to something else and switching back. So it is repeatable if you rewind and replay, but it seems to be there if you switch modes and switch back. So I don't know, but it sure is annoying!


----------



## berniec

audio dropouts all morning on ESPN-HD 10:30-12:30am ET


----------



## mjbvideo

I have no confidence that they'll fix it. If they do fix it then another bug will be introduced. Bank on it. If the new Tivo has the same problems with BASIC functionality then this 14+ year customer will take his $148/month business elsewhere. I don't have any of the sports packages so that pretty much levels the playing field for me.
So for the past 1.5 years I keep hearing from the kool-aid drinkers that they are aware of problem xyz and it should be fixed in the next NR. Yada, yada, yada...blah, blah, blah. Why should we have to accept mediocrity?


----------



## gquiring

I don't think they will fix it either. These audio issues existed with the HD Tivo also. For a while the HR2x series was good on audio and then it became hit or miss with each firmware update. It's beyond my understanding how they continue to F this up and let it be broke.

I have FIOS in my area, I have been waiting for the rumors that they are getting a bigger DVR in early 2010. Once that happens my 14 years with DirecTV will be over. I always liked them until I got that HD Tivo which was riddled with audio issues. And now the rain fade issues on the newer orbits is just driving me insane. For $136 bucks a month I am not happy.


----------



## blueoyster

mjbvideo said:


> I have no confidence that they'll fix it. If they do fix it then another bug will be introduced. Bank on it. If the new Tivo has the same problems with BASIC functionality then this 14+ year customer will take his $148/month business elsewhere. I don't have any of the sports packages so that pretty much levels the playing field for me.
> So for the past 1.5 years I keep hearing from the kool-aid drinkers that they are aware of problem xyz and it should be fixed in the next NR. Yada, yada, yada...blah, blah, blah. Why should we have to accept mediocrity?


Yup!!! 
Sunday Ticket is the only reason I'm still with them.(OK maybe cause I can get STO and the Gonzaga hoop games also.) I've been with them for 13+ years so I've seen how good their PQ was in SD in the mid 90's to 2004. They had a pristine picture with very few audio drops. I'm sick of their phone crap. They do respond fast but problem resolution is a different story!!!


----------



## Rob77

As I have said numerous times, the engineering staff is spending to much time worrying about bells and whistles and not worrying about good basic picture and sound quality. This will eventually hurt them badly.


----------



## Inches

I think I know why it happens and if anyone wants to dispute it, fine. It has to do with disk access. When the room was quite (no TV or computer) I heard a bunch of disk activity coming out of the DVR. There was nothing going on like recording a show but paid it no mind thinking it was doing some house keeping. 

While playing a recording with the volume low (while on the phone) I heard the audio drop out as the disk was making its noise. It seemed that if the disk access was a longer duration there was a video freeze as well. I tested this buy backing up a ways and the program played through with no brrrp or freeze.

I have yet to test this on a live program since I do the bulk of my viewing off of the DVR.


----------



## gquiring

The audio dropouts we are experiencing have no picture issues. I can rewind 10 times in a row and the exact screwed up audio will repeat itself every time.


----------



## Inches

gquiring said:


> The audio dropouts we are experiencing have no picture issues. I can rewind 10 times in a row and the exact screwed up audio will repeat itself every time.


My theory (again):
While recording there was one of those disk activities which would cause a hiccup in the recording. I have had these as well but I am making an assumption and have not proven this. I would have to watch a live program while recording it and hear the disk access.


----------



## seern

Well my issues with CNN have all been 'live' watching, but isn't even 'live' watching buffered on the hd so we are not actually seeing 'live' through put but a second or so delay. I am sure this is why if I am watching the same show on my H20 and HR 22, the H20 is slightly ahead of the HRxx. The only downer against this is the H20 is also having the drops and it has no hd.


----------



## BKC

My disk makes noise 24/7/365 unless I unplug it.


----------



## Alan Mintaka

I get a/v dropouts too. In my case there's a weird buzzing sound when the audio drops. When the video drops, it pauses with pixelation around the edges of things that were moving. Sometimes the audio drops out at the same time as the video, other times not. They both "catch up" with realtime when they resume, not much more than a second later. 

These dropouts are brief in duration but frequent enough to be annoying. And when they happen in a recorded program I'd like to keep, my diastolic goes over 100.

There are threads in the DirecTV forum addressing these sorts of dropouts. Over there we seem to be of the consensus that these problems started occurring more frequently since the software upgrade to version 0x368.

DirecTV reps on the board (don't know if they're employees yet, I just resumed service in Oct) are maintaining that these problems are caused by "marginal hard drives", and that improvements in the diagnostic software in the 0x368 upgrade have enabled detection of the hard drive problems. This interpretation is being met with some skepticism.

Is it OK to post DirecTV thread links here? Here's the title of the forum and thread, anyway:

High Definition Digital Video Recording (HD DVRs) | Is there any fix, or workaround, for the 0x368 stutter glitch? 

There is also talk that this started occurring during the "DLB NR", whatever that is. I posted a question about that at DirecTV so I might as well repeat it here - anyone know what that is? DLB NR? Is that a previous software/firmware upgrade?

I came here from Comcast because of even worse service, so I can't complain in that regard. However in doing so I had to leave behind a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR which can't do satellite reception. I use it for Netflix and Amazon movie downloads now. When I see the difference in software and performance between the TiVo and the DirecTV HR22-100...

Well, there goes my diastolic again. I'd better go for a walk!


----------



## n3ntj

BKC said:


> Anyone other than me noticing a lot of audio dropouts? I notice it more on Speed but it is on other channels too. I did a RBR but it didn't do a thing to help. HR20-100
> 
> Last night I timed it a couple times and it would have a quick dropout five times in seven minutes. Once in awhile you can notice a little stutter in the picture at the same time. Receiver taking a dump maybe? It's been like this for a week and it's starting to get annoying. lol TIA


I haven't noticed lots of dropouts on live TV, but I see lots of them watching prerecorded shows the past few weeks. I rewind to see if it happens again and the audio doesn't dropout the 2nd time. This test is done to see if the audio dropout was related to a signal/feed issue or a local issue. They all seem to be local (software/hardware) issues, at least the past several weeks for me.


----------



## SlimyPizza

Alan Mintaka said:


> There is also talk that this started occurring during the "DLB NR", whatever that is. I posted a question about that at DirecTV so I might as well repeat it here - anyone know what that is? DLB NR? Is that a previous software/firmware upgrade?


DLB NR: DLB= dual live buffers; NR=national release. I forget which update contained the DLB but it was only a couple or maybe three ago. That said, the excessive hard drive activity is a frequently reported disturbance which began a couple of updates ago. I too have noticed pixelation and audio dropouts during the excessive disk churning which occurs without warning or provocation. I have a HR20-700. Not only does the disk drive activity occur at the same time the a/v acts up but it occurs when DLB is not active, on multiple channels, and affects playback as well as live TV. I've been checking into ATT U-Verse as a result of this new "feature" on my DVR.


----------



## tvjay

The ESPN dropouts during football games this past weekend sound like truck problems. The reason I say this is because the picture never disappears, only the audio. Then when the audio returns it sounds like that of a telephone hybrid interface. It is sometimes common practice to have a backup telephone link for audio on remotes of high importance.


----------



## tsduke

There may be truck problems from time to time, but I'm convinced the audio dropouts are a Directv problem. I get the same thing on several channels and I'm really getting annoyed by it.


----------



## tvjay

The gym at my apartment complex day was dropping audio/video today and they don't have DirecTV. Plus, my local cable company is having issues with local channels. Is there something in the air?


----------



## SuperZ06

tsduke said:


> There may be truck problems from time to time, but I'm convinced the audio dropouts are a Directv problem. I get the same thing on several channels and I'm really getting annoyed by it.


*I agree.

Audio Dropouts mostly at night and on HD channels, but happens on all channels.*


----------



## SuperZ06

*Audio dropout @5:16pt on CNN during Presidential Address.*


----------



## hdtvfan0001

SuperZ06 said:


> *Audio dropout @5:16pt on CNN during Presidential Address.*


Yes....watched on 3 different channels and 3 HDTV's at the time, and only CNN dropped out - Fox and CBS were solid.


----------



## schlar01

I had about 5 on House last night.


----------



## vanpatrick

I've noticed audio dropout during recordings of Dexter on SHOeHD, but interestingly enough it does not happen on all my DVRs for the same recording/same channel/same time.

So I know it's not the broadcast-- it's something else, either unique to the DVR or wiring that the problem occurs on.

Also, so far, I'm only seeing this on recordings, not live.


----------



## soloredd

I had audio drops last night on 696-1 (Comcast SportsNet Bay Area HD) during the Warriors game. I also was flipping to the Oregon game on 206-1 ESPNHD and didn't have any audio drops. Was pretty annoying, the drops were only a quick second and about 2-3 minutes apart.

I just watched my recording of The Office and didn't have dropouts from last night's episode. Prior to last night, the last 4 episodes all had the dropouts. Strange indeed. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Just random.


----------



## direfan

I actually watched the Office from this week and there were a ton of dropouts. DTV really needs to man up and fix this.


----------



## gquiring

I have been watching a lot of HD today, audio issues continue.....


----------



## CrownSeven

This has been happening for me. I got them to replace my DVR, but its still happening. 

I have my DVR hooked up to my Onkyo receiver, so I did a test. I turned off the receiver and instead turned up the volume on my TV to get the sound through the HDMI cable instead (was hooked up to receiver through Optical connection). Guess what, no drop outs.

I'm thinking this is related to digital/dolby sound only. 

I'd be curious if others out there are experiencing this with no audio receivers hooked up at all, and just piping the sound through their televisions?


----------



## BKC

I turned off my DD and it made no difference in my dropouts. I didn't try without the sound system though.


----------



## CrownSeven

Try connecting the sound directly to your TV and see if it still happens.


----------



## BKC

No. lol


----------



## iamqnow

gquiring said:


> I have been watching a lot of HD today, audio issues continue.....


Continuing and getting worse. Really getting tired of this.


----------



## scottchez

My DirecTV 2 year contract just ended.

Is this issue just on my HR20-100's (I have two)?????

Is it worth asking for newer models and I they wont replace, switch to some other service?


I have tried the Nation Release version and others, no difference no matter what version of software I am on.


----------



## gameguru1360

I read somewhere on some other forum that by switching from using a toslink optical audio cable to a digital coaxial works. Well I just went down to my local radioshack and picked up a digital coaxial cable and my hr23-700 still has the hiccups. So I'm thinking it's the directv receiver. 

Speed channel for me hiccups like crazy


----------



## BKC

Speed channel and ESPN are by far the worst for me.


----------



## gameguru1360

I experienced the same hiccups with a panny bluray player going through a toslink optical selector, so I tried going directly to my onkyo's 2nd optical input and that fixed the problem. I thought that by doing the same thing with the hr23-700 would fix the problem, but it doesn't....seems to be the hr23-700 and all the other hd dvr's


----------



## CrownSeven

OK, well I think I was mistaken about the optical connection vs HDMI Connection.

I had a program recorded that had the audio drop out. I tried replaying the program using the HDMI cable to pipe the audio to the TV directly, and the drop still happens, but its just much more subtle.

When it happens over the optical connection connected to my Onkyo receiver, it just takes longer for the receiver to recover.

Since this is happening over any audio connection, to me it seems like its a problem that DirecTV will have to solve. And they better do it soon, its getting VERY annoying.


----------



## gameguru1360

yep it's very annoying. I've noticed this hiccup even in the recordings. Live broadcasts I can understand about the streaming feed, but to have it recorded sucks!


----------



## The Big Bad

vanpatrick said:


> I've noticed audio dropout during recordings of Dexter on SHOeHD


I too have audio dropouts on my recordings of Dexter (and Californication, which is also on SHO). Up until last night I only noticed them on these two shows, but then I also got a few on yesterday's recording of ESPN's 30 for 30 on Gretzky.

I'm running my audio through the HDMI, which runs through my Denon 2310ci receiver, and then to the TV.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Seems like a DTV issue to me.


----------



## scottchez

I seem to only get them from my over the air tuner for locals.

Could it be my signal strenght is too strong for OTA? ITs always 90 to 100 percent.

Just trying to figure out a fix since DirecTV is not fixing it right now.


----------



## sammib

Lots of dropouts here. Brrrrrrrrrrrrip problem has gotten much better here . Hardly happens anymore. Trade one problem for another. Get those Directv engineers on it.


----------



## gquiring

Lots of issues on Syfy also, I recorded a lot of movies this past week and all of them have audio only issues. I use a HR22 with the TOS link.


----------



## boggsaz

We get the audio dropouts here too, but they are only on one of the DVR's.
I seems that the brrrriips have been fixed. Thankfully.

1. HR20-700, okay no dropouts. HDMI connection to Philips LCD HDTV.
2. HR20-700, has dopouts every day. HDMI connection to the same TV.
3. HR20-100, okay no dropouts. HDMI connection to the same TV.

It seems to happen daily on the shows that we DVR on that box.

Since the last software update, at least the brrriiips seem to be gone.


----------



## hoosierfan227

sammib said:


> Lots of dropouts here. Brrrrrrrrrrrrip problem has gotten much better here . Hardly happens anymore. Trade one problem for another. Get those Directv engineers on it.


I agree the Brrrrrip has gotten better. Watching "The U" last night on ESPN had audio drops almost every minute for less than a second. Very annoying.


----------



## gquiring

There were a couple of dropouts during the season finale of Dexter tonight.


----------



## Steady Teddy

^Yes I noticed a couple of audio dropouts on Dexter also (HR20-700). And there were dropouts galore on ESPN all morning Sunday. This is annoying as hell.


----------



## RVD26

gquiring said:


> There were a couple of dropouts during the season finale of Dexter tonight.


I've gotten dropouts during every episode of Dexter this season.


----------



## SuperZ06

gameguru1360 said:


> I read somewhere on some other forum that by switching from using a toslink optical audio cable to a digital coaxial works. Well I just went down to my local radioshack and picked up a digital coaxial cable and my hr23-700 still has the hiccups. So I'm thinking it's the directv receiver.
> 
> *Speed channel for me hiccups like crazy*


*For me as well, getting unwatchable.*


----------



## techntrek

Brrrrrips gone, now lots of dropouts. On movie pay channels and network TV programs. Putting in my 2 cents so it gets counted...


----------



## ehilbert1

I can't record anything in HD on my HR20. If I do the audio poping and dropouts are so bad you can't watch anything. I called D* for the second time and I was told they have no idea what the problem could be. My HR23 is working great. I do have the PP. I was thinking about getting a replacement for the HR20, but then they would extend my contract by "mistake" again. They've done that 3 times before even though I have the PP. I'm at a loss here. Any ideas?????


----------



## scottchez

Drop outs all gone for me now. Only thing I changed was my over the Air Antenna. I took the Amp off.

Wonder if it was somehow overloading something.


----------



## Holydoc

Scott,

Where you overloading my DVR too? I don't think that your set-up was the only cause for all of the above posters' problems.


----------



## gquiring

It may have been a coincidence I watched 4 shows last night and not one audio drop. Let's keep our fingers crossed


----------



## BKC

The dropouts were alive and going strong on Speed and ESPN last night


----------



## digitalfreak

Getting them here too. I've also had some instances where my Onkyo receiver would switch from Dolby Digital 5.1 to Mono. The only way to get audio back is to stop and start if I'm watching a recording, or change channels.

Should we call support? !rolling


----------



## gquiring

So much for my good night, watched a good amount of SpikeHD today and loaded with dropouts.


----------



## brucegrr

I doubt calls to support will do much good. They KNOW this is an issue. (and they are aware of this thread)


----------



## mikewsu

Happens to my HR20-100 all the time. It's driving us nuts.


----------



## scottchez

Still no more problems now that I cleared up my over the air antenna issue.

Maybe my problem was unique.


----------



## BKC

brucegrr said:


> I doubt calls to support will do much good. They KNOW this is an issue. (and they are aware of this thread)


Not to mention they'll just deny there is a problem that 25 or 30 resets won't take care of. It's only been a month and a half, it should be cleared up soon.


----------



## gquiring

It turns out DirecTV is aware of the problem. Here are the details:

The bottom line is that this problem happens due to errors in the broadcaster's AC3 digital audio data stream, and those errors cause DirecTV's MPEG4 encoders to "brrrrp". So the problem truly lies on both ends .... the broadcasters need to improve their equipment to eliminate those AC3 audio errors, and DirecTV should improve their equipment to be less susceptible to these audio errors.

Posted by user rga8350 ....
"I work for a local TV station and we have become aware of the "motorboating" of DirecTV audio followed by an audio dropout. Our viewers have complained about it for weeks.

DirecTV's tech management says the problem is caused when the AC3 encoder at the video source sends out extraneous packets of information. DirecTV's equipment bounces the extraneous packets back and forth several million times in a fraction of a second, causing the "motorboat" ripping sound everyone is complaining about, followed by a short period of no sound. The DirecTV gear detects the error and cuts if off. When the cut-off occurs, that kills the sound for a fraction of a second. Then the sound picks up again. All this happens in less than a second, but it's annoying. We also have anecdotal eports that the errors spoil DVR recordings. I noted three motorboat incidents in just the first three minutes of this weekend's Oklahoma football game.

These extra packets are errors in the AC3 data stream, and DirecTV's gear appears to be unable to handle them. DirecTV's CSR's have been instructed to tell anyone who complains "We are aware of the problem and are working on it." DirecTV doesn't know why their equipment can't handle AC3 audio errors. They are working on a "band aid" solution, which is a software patch which will remove the "motorboat" buzz and replace it with silence. I don't think subscribers are going to stand still for programming with holes in the audio, so DirecTV has to find a permanent solution.

Some broadcasters are experimenting with all sorts of fixes including very expensive Dolby audio frame synchronizers, but that is just an experiment and probably won't work. Until DirecTV figures out a way to process out the AC3 errors this problem is going to continue."


----------



## mickcris

I also have not heard a Brrrrip in a while (I can't remember the last time I heard one), but they have been replaced by the audio dropouts. I am getting the audio dropouts a lot on only the HD channels.
I had been getting the Brrrrips alot, so I also feel that they are the same problem that has sort of been "fixed".


----------



## BKC

I shot them another email today just to rattle their cage a little and believe it or not the "engineering dept" called me. Of course they wanted to do resets and check the wires in the back of the receiver and seemed to be a bit disappointed I had already done that. LOL 

Of course they haven't heard of this problem. Not to mention they have never heard of this forum. Long long silence time and I finally told them if they didn't have any more questions my wife could listen to silence on the phone as well as I could, I was busy. 

She listened to silence for another 10 minutes or so and then they said they were going to transfer her. Another guy comes on the phone and said he didn't know if it would be fixed today or tomorrow but it WOULD be fixed. !rolling 

I swear those people thrive on blowing smoke......

They did ask for the address to this forum though.


----------



## gquiring

There is no doubt in my mind calling DirecTV for any technical issue like this is a colossal waste of time. They are never going to have their real engineers speak to the customers directly. I have tried calling them on several issues and always got the reboot answer. They also have denied issues that were much larger than this one which has been the most frustrating part of dealing with DirecTV. What be interesting to know is how does DirecTV pass on the 'real' issues to the folks that can make a difference.


----------



## BKC

Amen


----------



## scottchez

Does this mean this issue is related to the confirmed issue in LA in this post?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=169808



gquiring said:


> It turns out DirecTV is aware of the problem. Here are the details:
> 
> The bottom line is that this problem happens due to errors in the broadcaster's AC3 digital audio data stream, and those errors cause DirecTV's MPEG4 encoders to "brrrrp". So the problem truly lies on both ends .... the broadcasters need to improve their equipment to eliminate those AC3 audio errors, and DirecTV should improve their equipment to be less susceptible to these audio errors.
> 
> Posted by user rga8350 ....
> "I work for a local TV station and we have become aware of the "motorboating" of DirecTV audio followed by an audio dropout. Our viewers have complained about it for weeks.
> 
> DirecTV's tech management says the problem is caused when the AC3 encoder at the video source sends out extraneous packets of information. DirecTV's equipment bounces the extraneous packets back and forth several million times in a fraction of a second, causing the "motorboat" ripping sound everyone is complaining about, followed by a short period of no sound. The DirecTV gear detects the error and cuts if off. When the cut-off occurs, that kills the sound for a fraction of a second. Then the sound picks up again. All this happens in less than a second, but it's annoying. We also have anecdotal eports that the errors spoil DVR recordings. I noted three motorboat incidents in just the first three minutes of this weekend's Oklahoma football game.
> 
> These extra packets are errors in the AC3 data stream, and DirecTV's gear appears to be unable to handle them. DirecTV's CSR's have been instructed to tell anyone who complains "We are aware of the problem and are working on it." DirecTV doesn't know why their equipment can't handle AC3 audio errors. They are working on a "band aid" solution, which is a software patch which will remove the "motorboat" buzz and replace it with silence. I don't think subscribers are going to stand still for programming with holes in the audio, so DirecTV has to find a permanent solution.
> 
> Some broadcasters are experimenting with all sorts of fixes including very expensive Dolby audio frame synchronizers, but that is just an experiment and probably won't work. Until DirecTV figures out a way to process out the AC3 errors this problem is going to continue."


----------



## texasbrit

It's actually San Francisco, but yes.
One thing to note. I know that in some cities there have been changes to the settings of the DirecTV MPEG-4 encoders that virtually eliminate the "brrrp" events but you get dropouts instead.....


----------



## berniec

tons of dropouts for the first quarter of the St. Petersburg Bowl on ESPN tonight


----------



## steve053

I've had constant audio drop-out since the last national release. They last from a tenth of a second to two seconds - happen on all channels, including OTA. Never had a problem before this last national release.

HR20-100


----------



## powerplay

I have dropouts all the time, both live and recorded of course. It is very annoying watching a program and have a dozen dropouts during the 1 hour show.


----------



## Stewpidity

I had constant audio and video dropouts during Sundays Dolphin/Titans game the screen would black w/ no audio for a few seconds, then brrp and it came back


----------



## gquiring

I am starting to notice a trend, I don't get very many dropouts on my locals, but SyFy, TNT, USA and FX are constant issues.


----------



## gitarzan

I am getting a lot of audio dropouts on CNN and other channels. Should I be concerned this is causing wear on my Onkyo receiver with my HDMI connection? It makes a lot of clicking noises trying to sync the audio.


----------



## DCSholtis

Had a bunch of audio dropouts on my local ABC station today while watching the Cavs game.


----------



## gitarzan

Has anyone reported this issue to DirecTV? What do they say?


----------



## BKC

They say:



> "Hummm I've never heard of that. Reset your receiver, did that help?" "Try unplugging your receiver and letting it sit for a few minutes and plug it back in. Did that help"


----------



## delco7

I'm getting the audio dropouts on most channels also. It does seem to be worse on the HD channels though. Started after the last NR. D* is clueless. Another reason I'm going to Comcrap after 11 years on D* !:bad_nono:


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I was not seeing a whole bunch of dropouts until the recent rainy weather here in SoCal. I do tend to think it's not because of rain fade on my receiver so much as the signal being degraded in transmission. I see the same dropouts OTA.


----------



## homebase

Had to reset one our HR22-100's today as there was no audio on any channel. 

A) I thought we lost the Yamaha head unit, but thankfully we didn't
B) as a last ditch effort, reset the box. Suddenly all was well.

Then came here today and noticed that others are having the same problems.

God I love this board!

Cheers,
Homebase


----------



## betterdan

Drop outs all the time here on various channels. local Fox, national Fox News and Speed channel seem to be the worst


----------



## brucegrr

gitarzan said:


> Has anyone reported this issue to DirecTV? What do they say?


Go back and read from post 67 on. Reported. Sent to engineering.


----------



## vilos

Getting numerous dropouts on NBA-TV and ESPN. Really severe on NBA-TV.


----------



## mciembro

I don't know if I agree it's a disruption in the stream from broadcasters - we have had some major dropout/stutter issues with Discovery Channel (278 HD) tonight during Mythbusters. It's occurring in the program and in the _DirecTV_ advertising.

Besides Discovery we also have seen major issues with the local FOX affiliate, again the HD version.

I have tried three things tonight as I've been reading this thread. First, I switched my AV receiver to analog inputs so it's decoding the digital stream. The dropouts/stutters continued. Next, I activated the DoublePlay feature and the problems became much, much worse - which to me indicates the hard drives in these units are the main issue. They're too slow to keep up with the content. Finally, I switched to the non-HD feed of Discovery and haven't had a single dropout since. (Both DoublePlay feeds are recording non-HD content now.) Again I think this points to a hard drive throughput issue.

Incidentally, we have seen very few of the brrrrp issues.


----------



## leprechaunshawn

I was watching Planet Green tonight and had several quick dropouts during the hour or so I was watching.


----------



## PMA

Earlier in this thread is a URL to contact DirecTV on issues such as this. It goes to the Office of the President. I went ahead and made contact about an hour ago and just received a call from D* to inquire about this and ask a variety of set up questions. They acknowledged the problem and said it is being worked on. They told me to call them again in a week if I had not heard from them directly before that. The person on the call seemed genuinely interested in solving the issue and collecting information that could help them investigate.


----------



## jgcox00

Throwing my issue on top of the pile... ESPN on 206 the audio drop outs make it almost unwatchable... switch to channel 73 and the audio is rock solid. Hope it gets fixed before ESPN is dropped from channel 73!


----------



## LoveDoc143

Sigh ... almost all night watching 'Heroes' on NBC here. Every few minutes, audio dropout. Sometimes for a "brrrt" second, sometimes for a few seconds with complete Dolby dropout. Happens both on live and recorded playback (on two tuners). Called DTV, just got a 'reset your tuner' junk response. 

Meh. This's getting very old - very fast. Oh well .. my ticket is in the hat as well I guess.


----------



## RexB

Same here in the Seattle area, audio/video dropouts, brrrrps and momentary black screens on all HD channels for the past two months. D* said "reset" might fix it. Been there, done that. 

Perhaps the new satellite in orbit will "ease" the bandwidth load, or whatever, and lessen these repetitive dropouts. My fingers are crossed for any fix.


----------



## BKC

The good news is the price increase is right on schedule.


----------



## RexB

!rolling

Yep we can count on that, even with negative inflation


----------



## BKC

I may reset my bill


----------



## gquiring

LoveDoc143 said:


> Sigh ... almost all night watching 'Heroes' on NBC here. Every few minutes, audio dropout. Sometimes for a "brrrt" second, sometimes for a few seconds with complete Dolby dropout. Happens both on live and recorded playback (on two tuners). Called DTV, just got a 'reset your tuner' junk response.
> 
> Meh. This's getting very old - very fast. Oh well .. my ticket is in the hat as well I guess.


Really strange I just watched the 2 hour Heroes and no audio dropouts. I guess it depends on the local feed, mine is NY. But I am noticing more and more dropouts on the nationals and virtually none on the locals.


----------



## crawdad62

Just came here and saw this thread. The reason I'm visiting is to see if anyone else has noticed the audio dropouts. I guess they have. Mine was very spotty until the last few weeks. Now it's to the point it's annoying. I've noticed it on both our local news broadcasts and national programming. I don't think I've heard it on any SD channels. I was watching Cartoon Network HD last night and it was particularly bad. I could hardly watch "Ed , Edd & Eddie"!


----------



## delco7

I've been having the audio dropouts on most channels since the last NR. I had perfect audio before then. While I am more than happy to blame D*, during the holidaze, I was watching a football game on Fox OTA, and lo and behold, audio dropout, with corresponding frame freeze on video. Hmmm....WTF? It's got to be something from the network source. BTW, turning DD off on the HR21 doesn't have any affect on my particular setup. Onkyo using toslink. It'll probably get fixed on the next NR. Any bets? :nono:


----------



## gquiring

I watched a lot of SyFy yesterday, audio dropouts were in full bloom


----------



## BKC

Last night on Speed for the Supercross it was non stop dropouts. It's been over two months now.


----------



## Stewpidity

watching the Pats/Ravens & having quite a few audio dropouts. I was watching on a different TV with Comcast and had no audio issues at all...this is getting annoying plus the Versus issue could cost them customer when my agreement is up in May


----------



## SFjr

It's really bad on the ESPN channels and our our local FOX HD via DirecTv. I have to switch over to the antenna to watch FOX HD because the dropouts are so bad.

Like others, I notice them on most HD channels - of course, I hardly watch SD anymore, so I cannot vouch for what happens there.


----------



## swillotter

i'm a service tech for dtv and have gone to two case management calls for this problem in the last month . i hate being in this situation since there is nothing the tech can do to fix the problem..just replace the lnb..maybe the receiver and pray not to get a repeat on it...i've tried to educate customers that there is nothing i can do that dtv needs to fix it somehow


----------



## gitarzan

I have a growing list of issues with DirecTV including audio dropouts. My two years ends today. I really hate to leave but all of the problems have been annoying. Maybe I will see if I can suspend my service for six months or until new receivers or something better comes along. It will be a good to see how long I can go with off air locals and internet TV and catch up with my media center projects.


----------



## mrcon0728

I have been having many dropouts as well. HGTV, NFLST and other channels. This is getting frustrating, have been with D since the beginning. If these issues continue I just may finally switch to FIOS. I would hate to do this because this issue and the HD DVR issues are the only real problems. Really would be hard to say goodbye to NFLST, which I get every year, but the audio is just becoming a major annoyance!


----------



## gquiring

If Verizon would increase their storage on their DVR I would switch tomorrow. I get too many outages because of rain since upgrading to HD.


----------



## tsduke

I emailed the ellen address about this issue again because calling does no good. I really didn't get much better help here when they called back. Said she couldn't find any info on the issue and wanted to replace my receivers. NOT!! I'm getting pissed now actually. This is ridiculous. Update the software already Directv and fix this issue!!!


----------



## gquiring

tsduke said:


> I emailed the ellen address about this issue again because calling does no good. I really didn't get much better help here when they called back. Said she couldn't find any info on the issue and wanted to replace my receivers. NOT!! I'm getting pissed now actually. This is ridiculous. Update the software already Directv and fix this issue!!!


You need to get her office to look at this thread.


----------



## tsduke

gquiring said:


> You need to get her office to look at this thread.


Link was in my email and we talked about it. Claimed she couldn't read it without logging in. I was walking through an airport when she called so I didn't try to figure that out.


----------



## gquiring

tsduke said:


> Link was in my email and we talked about it. Claimed she couldn't read it without logging in. I was walking through an airport when she called so I didn't try to figure that out.


I just read the thread from my laptop that has never logged into DBSTalk and I had no issues reading the thread. So another line from D* .......


----------



## brittonx

I have been having significant audio dropouts on only one station for the last 3 years. It is our local Fox affiliate coming over the satellite. (Channel 31 in Rochester, NY).
It seems to be worse during Prime time and possible worse when two shows are being recorded but I cannot be certain of that.


----------



## brittonx

I wonder if the existing DirecTV STB hardware is becoming maxed out with all the new capabilities they have been cramming into them. With the sometimes sluggish guide and menu performance, I suspect the CPUs are at their limits.


----------



## gquiring

I sent an email to Ellen, lets see what happens.


----------



## BKC

One OTA channel, no cable, FIOS and UVerse are just things I read about on the internet, and with Dish no DNS..... I'm stuck here..... :nono2:


----------



## gquiring

I got a call from Ellen's office. They want to replace my DVR. I chatted for a few minutes with her office and they don't at this time see any issues with it being at their end. I don't buy it but the person who called did listen. My issues are still the nationals, I am not getting any drop outs on my locals (ABC, FOX, CBS or NBC). I did try and relay that on to her that if my equipment is at fault why do the locals have no issues? I can tune in TNT or SyFy and easily get a few dropouts each hour.

So it looks like more people need to call in and log their issues. At this point they don't see a problem.


----------



## BKC

gquiring said:


> I got a call from Ellen's office. They want to replace my DVR. I chatted for a few minutes with her office and they don't at this time see any issues with it being at their end. I don't buy it but the person who called did listen. My issues are still the nationals, I am not getting any drop outs on my locals (ABC, FOX, CBS or NBC). I did try and relay that on to her that if my equipment is at fault why do the locals have no issues? I can tune in TNT or SyFy and easily get a few dropouts each hour.
> 
> So it looks like more people need to call in and log their issues. At this point they don't see a problem.


Of course it isn't their fault, is it ever?


----------



## brucegrr

Since I am the one who made the first (or second) contact on this issue.....I sent Directv another email (to their customer advocacy dept)

_*On November 21, 2009 I contacted you about the problem with audio dropouts. I was told this issue was going to be looked at.

I told you there was a large number of people complaining about this in the DBStalk forums.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167900

People are calling tech support and being told to reboot their receivers, etc. This of course does NOT fix this problem.

A person posted today that they contacted Directv through this email feature and was told that the problem was not on Directv's end. If it is not Directv's problem then whose problem is it?

If there are audio dropouts across a broad spectrum of channels then an individual broadcaster is not the blame. This is either a problem on the head end or a hardware problem. (either the DVR or a combination of the DVR and the audio equipment the customer is using)

I would appreciate being contacted about this.

Thank you for your help.*_

I will let you know what response I receive.

This is a Directv problem.


----------



## BKC

Cool. I contacted them on Nov. 13 and several more times since then and they called me once. No joy.......


----------



## BKC

In fact I just looked and I have seven different "Reference #s" LOL


----------



## brucegrr

BKC said:


> In fact I just looked and I have seven different "Reference #s" LOL


you are special 

I hope this problem get sfixed SOON.

It is complete 100% BS for Directv to suggest this is not a Directv problem.

I had audio dropout on three different channels last night.

Bruce


----------



## gquiring

I'm not tracking the software updates these days, is there any way to see if a national rollout was done around Nov 2009? What else could have changed around that time to start the issue?


----------



## tsduke

gquiring said:


> I'm not tracking the software updates these days, is there any way to see if a national rollout was done around Nov 2009? What else could have changed around that time to start the issue?


You can see the last update on your receiver. Mine were updated 11/3.

Right when the problem started!


----------



## Jedon

I'm a brand new customer ( Jan 8 ) and had about a 1 minute audio dropout on Comedy Central while trying to watch Southpark last night. I haven't read the whole thread yet but perhaps if can can coordinate and see if ever we are having the same audio dropout on the same channel at the same time then we can determine if it's the DVR/LMB etc or if it's on their side. Maybe make a log in this thread:
Jan 12 8:15:30 PM 8:16:30PM Comedy Central
I didn't note the time, that was just an example.


----------



## BKC

brucegrr said:


> *I hope this problem get sfixed SOON.
> 
> It is complete 100% BS for Directv to suggest this is not a Directv problem.*
> 
> Bruce


----------



## wavemaster

D* is actually sending another tech tomorrow to tell me my system is OK. What a waste of resources. The rep even insisted that they have never heard of this? Talk about BS.

After the 100th call about it it would be flagged in the CS software and "known" by anyone that sat at the CS desk and looked at the screen. I would be willing to bet there is a well scripted response the techs are supposed to follow in response.

The fact that they are hiding from it points more and more to them and not the provider. Why would they even begin to waste the resources of sending a tech here again if it was someone else s fault? 

I just wish they were honest about it.


----------



## gquiring

tsduke said:


> You can see the last update on your receiver. Mine were updated 11/3.
> 
> Right when the problem started!


Same here 11/3!! That's too much of coincidence for my reasoning.


----------



## brucegrr

Well Directv called in response to my email. 

Not too helpful....

When I tried to mention this thread (which she was aware of) she told me she couldn't speak to me about any other customers problem. She wanted to focus on my problem alone. I told her the forum thread was relevant to the problem because it showed that it is not an isolated problem and that it is not specific to one broadcaster or DVR or setup.

I told her, once again, that I thought it was a Direct problem. That the sheer number of forum posts suggests it is a Directv problem. Either on the head end OR an equipment issue. Either way it is a Directv problem.

I did say that Onkyo AV receivers were mentioned a number of times in this thread and I wondered if there could be any connection? Of course the answer was to disconnect the AV receiver. Not gonna happen.

I am quite happy to help Directv get to the bottom of this. I am not quite happy to get the stock Directv answers to fixing the problem. Rebooting, replacing receivers is NOT going to fix this.

Bruce


----------



## BKC

There's a surprise lol


----------



## BKC

I thought I would rattle their cage again. Looks like it will be taken care of. :lol:



> Thanks for writing us back.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that your audio problem has remained unresolved. I want to assure you that we value your business and we want to make things right.
> 
> I just wanted to let you know that I have re-forwarded your email for special handling. A specialist will respond as soon as an agent is available (likely within 48 hours). For immediate assistance, please call us at 1-800-531-5000.
> 
> Thanks again for writing. We appreciate your patience and understanding.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Folks, let's continue the discussion here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=161262


----------



## gquiring

Stuart Sweet said:


> Folks, let's continue the discussion here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=161262


That's really a different issue is it not? I am well aware of the bripps from many months ago but I have not had one in ages. These are just mutes, no sound for a second or two. I'm not sure it's right to combine the topics?


----------



## brucegrr

Yeah this is specifically audio drop outs. I made the mistake of posting the link for this thread on the other thread and caused a bit on confusion.

My apologies.

According to Directv they are monitoring this thread. If so then it is important to post relevant problems with audio drop outs.

I have not had a brrppp in a long long long time. Audiodrops? About 15 minutes ago.


----------



## BKC

Stuart Sweet said:


> Folks, let's continue the discussion here:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=161262


wth? Nothing to do?


----------



## brucegrr

I sent Stuart an email. We can disregard his request to move the discussion.


----------



## BKC

I already did lol


----------



## Davenlr

Ill add my name to the list.... Watching CNN coverage and have noticed at least 6 audio drop outs (short enough they didnt even trigger a signal loss on the a/v receiver (Denon toslink connection))...and this was on coverage as well as CNN's commercials. Been going on for weeks, but Ive just ignored it up until now.


----------



## brucegrr

Davenlr said:


> Ill add my name to the list.... Watching CNN coverage and have noticed at least 6 audio drop outs (short enough they didnt even trigger a signal loss on the a/v receiver (Denon toslink connection))...and this was on coverage as well as CNN's commercials. Been going on for weeks, but Ive just ignored it up until now.


You raise an interesting point I have not considered before. MY AV receiver is quick to react to Dolby/non Dolby or audio signal changes. But these audio drops never cause any change with the audio receiver.

Hmm..........

I know we are close to another software release. I am curious to see if this problem is fixed.


----------



## gquiring

My Yamaha receiver detects the dropouts, I see the display change when it occurs. I wish I had known when I spoke to Ellen's office that there was a software update exactly at the time this problem started, that clearly tells me what caused the issue.


----------



## BKC

I told the lady who was supposed to be an engineer (yeah right) that when she called. Didn't seem to mean much to her


----------



## Davenlr

brucegrr said:


> I know we are close to another software release. I am curious to see if this problem is fixed.


No.


----------



## brucegrr




----------



## BKC

brucegrr said:


>


----------



## Rocko62580

brucegrr said:


> Well Directv called in response to my email.
> 
> Not too helpful....
> 
> When I tried to mention this thread (which she was aware of) she told me she couldn't speak to me about any other customers problem. She wanted to focus on my problem alone. I told her the forum thread was relevant to the problem because it showed that it is not an isolated problem and that it is not specific to one broadcaster or DVR or setup.
> 
> I told her, once again, that I thought it was a Direct problem. That the sheer number of forum posts suggests it is a Directv problem. Either on the head end OR an equipment issue. Either way it is a Directv problem.
> 
> I did say that Onkyo AV receivers were mentioned a number of times in this thread and I wondered if there could be any connection? Of course the answer was to disconnect the AV receiver. Not gonna happen.
> 
> I am quite happy to help Directv get to the bottom of this. I am not quite happy to get the stock Directv answers to fixing the problem. Rebooting, replacing receivers is NOT going to fix this.
> 
> Bruce


I also have an Onkyo receiver, and it appears that this may be compounding the problem.


----------



## hardcorrwin

been having a consistent problem with hockey games on Comcast Sports Bay Area/California HD. Even last night's game that was simulcast on NHL HD had the dropouts, so it seems to be coming from Comcast Sports, but a DTV issue. I have a Yamaha HDMI receiver.


----------



## chudgins

my audio dropouts seem to only be happening on my black HR-21, haven't noticed it on my HR-20 or H-20 or any of my standard def receivers. Mine is also happening on multiple channels. Thought it might be a problem with my new Sony LCD TV as the audio is gone from the TV speakers and receiver that is getting the signal from the TV. I have the HR-21 connected directly to the receiver and when I switch over during a dropout, I'm still getting the audio from the direct connection making me believe it's something with the HDMI connection, cable or my TV


----------



## John Carter

I would appreciate knowing if there is a DBSTalk thread devoted to Directv video 'hiccups', too ? I get video 'brrpps' on Directv ABC (720p) broadcasts as well as Fox (720p) and would like to know of other members experience.


----------



## hdtvluvr

I have a Yamaha RXV-3900 and have audio dropouts on recorded material. Haven't noticed any dropouts on live shows.

This week, I was trying to catch up on the CSI's and NCIS episodes that I had recorded. They were totally unwatchable due to the audio dropouts. The "digital" flag on the yamaha kept going off too during the audio dropouts. While I was trying to watch recordings I was also recording the original CSI. I decided to watch a few minutes live and didn't have any dropouts. I switched to the recording and the dropouts were terrible.

Is this a HD issue? Or a DVR issue? Of course, all of these shows are CBS and I recorded them off the D* feed. Friday, I pulled the plug on the DVR and was able too watch Grey's Anatomy without too many audio dropouts. However, while watching the Private Practice crossover show the dropouts started back and occurred for several seconds every 30 seconds to a minute. It became unwatchable.

Using a HR20-700


----------



## Spoffo

I've had them consistently, but not very frequently, and they seem to be more associated with recordings from certain channels (especially Showtime for me) than others.

I just caught up with this thread and haven't read through all 10 pages, but, since the problem seems to be associated with digital audio to various receiver brands, has anyone tried switching to an analog audio connection to the receiver to see if they go away?

I'm mainly using an early silver HR20 with external hard disk, feeding an Onkyo receiver via optical.


----------



## SFjr

I am going HDMI from my HR20-100 to my Onkyo 805 and I get them very often. My audio flag on the Onkyo also shows the audio drop and then re-establishes a Dolby Digital connection. I only watch HD channels and so I can't say if it affects SD channels also. It's horrible on ESPN channels and my local HD via DirecTv. I have to switch to my antenna it's gotten so bad on the local channels. Have to go back and redo my series links...


----------



## akopperl

Are all of the audio dropouts repeatable if you rewind and try to replay that segment?

I had an HR21 DVR for about 2+ years and never experienced any issues of note until the November software update. After that update, I began to experience occasional audio dropouts (all repeatable if I hit rewind). They always seemed to occur on the same shows or networks - shows of note Dexter and Heroes. 

My HR21 died this week - the unit began to constantly freeze and reboot itself. I got a replacement on Friday (HR23) and installed the unit. The only change I made from the HR21 setup was I decided to use the HDMI cable that DirecTV provided as I had another use for the cable I was previously using. The DVR came with software dated April 2009. I used the unit for about 30 minutes on Friday and had no issues. Overnight it was upgraded to the November release. I began to use the DVR for extended periods of time this weekend and I am getting more dropouts than ever before. For most shows, I get dropouts every 4-10 minutes, however most of them were not repeatable. If I hit rewind the scene would play cleanly over 90% of the time. I did notice that if the front display of my receiver lost the audio signal - it was repeatable. When the audio signal format remained on the display, the audio dropout could not be replicated. The only show where I did not get any dropouts was the Golden Globes which I watched tonight from 9:20 PM to 11:00 PM.

At this point, I am totally confused. Am I getting an increase in dropouts due to the change in HDMI cable? Is my receiver (Integra) to blame? Did I get a bad HR23? Very frustrating. I may change the HDMI cable tomorrow and see if that improves things - but this is extremely hard to diagnose and time consuming. Also, I don't want to return or send my receiver in for repair unless I am certain it is to blame.


----------



## dsm

Just for grins, try disabling Dolby Digital. This always eliminates the dropouts for me. The release before last I thought they had finally gone away, but with the latest release I get them again. I have an Onkyo receiver and personally I'm suspecting there is an incompatibility with the box and an Onkyo receiver. A few others please post your receiver brands if you have this issue.

steve


----------



## celticpride

I have the onkyo 805 av receiver hooked up with my hr21-100,and i have been losing my audio on cbs for the last couple of weeks. I had to turn off my dolby digital during the nfl playoffs saturday, after 30 ent by i turned dolby back on in my dvr and it worked the rest of the game. my wife is to the point where it wouldn't bother her at all if i switched to another provider,(i also lost audio during the mentalist ,ncis, and big bang theory.)


----------



## BKC

I tried turning off DD a long time ago and it didn't work on mine. 

I just did a search at another forum and I was watching the Truck race on Speed on 10-31-09 and noticed all the dropouts so I ask if anyone else was having the problem. I just looked and the last software update downloaded on 10-29-09....... hummm


----------



## BKC

I'm back to square one. DTV had sent me an email asking me to call. I just called and they said "We show your issue as being fixed"


----------



## gquiring

Nothing fixed on my end, I watched some TNT today and lots of audio dropouts.


----------



## akopperl

Are certain DVR models worse than others? 

I had an HR21 hooked to an Integra receiver and had some dropouts - but they occurred infrequently and I was always able to replicate the dropout. My HR21 died and I replaced it with an HR23. I still get the same number of dropouts that can be replicated (easy to detect as the display on my receiver drops the format as well). However, now I get a large number of dropouts that can not be replicated (they are so short in duration that the display on my receiver does not drop the format). They occur so often on some channels that the shows become unwatchable.


----------



## hdtvluvr

Well, I started to watch Cold Case tonight (recorded yesterday) and it was unwatchable due to the dropouts. Video had issues too. The video seemed to stutter.

I did a red button reset and that cleared everything up. All of the audio and video was back.

I did the red button reset last week and it cleared things up for about 2 hours of shows before it started again.

We don't watch very much live so I don't know if I have audio dropouts during live shows. Is everyone here just having audio issues on recordings or does it happen on live stuff too?


----------



## gquiring

Tonight I got an audio dropout on NBC's Chuck. It was pre-recorded and I rewound and bypassed my Yamaha receiver and used the audio on my Panasonic V10 Plasma via HDMI and the result was very interesting. No dropout but instead it was garbled junk. I am going to now assume the dropouts are bad data streams from DirectTV and our receivers are smart enough to just mute it. 

THIS IS CLEARLY A DIRECTV ISSUE, and I hope the D* folks are reading this.

I am going to send Ellen's office another email and suggest a few others do the same thing. This is getting very tiresome.


----------



## akopperl

As I believe other people have mentioned, I switched Dolby Digital off and the dropouts stopped. I was watching The Express on HBO and I was getting a dropout every 3-5 minutes - I switched Dolby Digital Off -- no more dropouts for the last 75 minutes.

The one thing that I want to get clarified (particularly from HR23 owners) is whether the dropouts can be replicated by rewinding and replaying the scene in ALL cases. With the HR21, I could always replicate the dropout but they were few and far between (about 1-2 per night). With the HR23, I get the same 1-2 that can be replicated - but the majority cannot be replicated. If I replay the scene, I can often hear what was previously missing. I'm trying to decide whether I should return my HR23 (its only 3 days old) or if the HR23 behaves differently from the older units.


----------



## hdtvluvr

Here's a thought of what we might add to posts when dropouts occur:

A/V Receiver
D* Receiver
Channel - OTA or D* feed
Live or Recording

Here's mine:

A/V Receiver 
Yamaha RXV-3900

D* Receiver 
HR20-700

Channel - OTA or D* feed
Both

Live or Recording
Recording. We don't watch much live stuff so don't know about live material.


----------



## BKC

Mine happen with DD on or off, happen with or without audio receiver. Speed is the worst and ESPN is second.


----------



## SuperZ06

*Watching (or trying to watch) Barrett-Jackson on Speed HD. Stopped counting after 25 audio dropouts the first hour. Sometimes it's every minute , sometimes none for 10 minutes. 2 months now, sometimes acknowledging the problem sometimes denying it. THIS SUCKS !!  
All I know is that it better be fixed by NASCAR time or I am out !! 
Are you listening D* ?*


----------



## BKC

I think it's quite clear no one from DTV reads here. lol 

Only a few weeks until the duels and Speed carries them, I'll be ready to stick an ice pick in my ears before those two races are over.


----------



## betterdan

I tried turning of DD last night and it did stop the audio drop outs on Fox News. I switched to a local channel later and I still got a few bbbrrriips though. I just switched it back to DD.


----------



## djwww98

So how long have these people been doing digital tv? And they don't have it figured out yet? :nono2: How much longer is this going to go on? How much longer before I get my money back?


----------



## akopperl

A/V Receiver 
Integra DHC-80.1

D* Receiver 
HR23-700

Channel - OTA or D* feed
D* feed only

Live or Recording
Both

Last night, I connected an optical cable to my HR23 and set my preamp to use HDMI for video and optical for audio. I still got some dropouts that caused my Integra's display to show that it had lost the audio signal. However, with HDMI - I was getting audio drops every 4-10 minutes on many channels (oddly enough the Integra display did not acknowledge the drop by displaying a loss of signal). Therefore, the optical cable improved things somewhat.

Until last week, I was using an HR21 (HDMI for both audio and video) and I was only experiencing dropouts similar to what I am getting with the optical cable now with the HR23. I don't understand why I am getting significantly more audio dropouts using HDMI for audio with the HR23. What is different in the HR23 that would cause more audio dropouts than the HR21 using HDMI for audio?


----------



## 07A3

SuperZ06 said:


> *Watching (or trying to watch) Barrett-Jackson on Speed HD. Stopped counting after 25 audio dropouts the first hour. Sometimes it's every minute , sometimes none for 10 minutes. 2 months now, sometimes acknowledging the problem sometimes denying it. THIS SUCKS !!
> All I know is that it better be fixed by NASCAR time or I am out !!
> Are you listening D* ?*


Well at least I know I am not alone. I had been having trouble with our local NBC channel (Orlando) since November, but since I only watch The Office and 30 Rock I didn't think much of it. This week I started watching Barrett-Jackson on Speed as well and I am getting dropouts every 1-3 minutes, just like the ones on NBC. I have not noticed this any other channels, and I have not had this issue since I got this equipment (HR21 w/ external hard drive) 2+ years ago. I normally only watch Barrett-Jackson and F1 on Speed, so I had not noticed it until now. I was thinking maybe it was a dish alignment issue, but it appears it is probably software related since these issues seem to coincide with the last update (no issues before then). I hope they fix it soon...it is very annoying.


----------



## Champcar#1

Just updating members that here on the Oregon coast audio dropouts of Speed the last two nights during Barrett-Jackson also. My Yamaha receiver RX-V2500 shows the surround sound readout dropping out also. This has been an issue since I had HD installed about 5 months ago.


----------



## wavemaster

djwww98 said:


> So how long have these people been doing digital tv? And they don't have it figured out yet? :nono2: How much longer is this going to go on? How much longer before I get my money back?


Thats funny stuff there.

D* won't even admit that they have had complaints. They just lie about it.

I have a case manager calling twice a week now after 2 service calls to the house. The last call he said quite specifically that after talking to the DVR software development dept. that they have never heard of any audio drop out issues, and to tell me that it is the source.

Well if the folks that need to fix the issue say they have never heard of it - good luck on a fix. Thanks for the lies D*. What a POS way to do business.

And for all you fanboys with your blue and white pom-poms that continue with the party line (its the stations fault) ANSWER me this.

If while watching a show on your dvr (we have 6 that we can reproduce it on) you have the audio drop out, you then jump back and the audio is there perfectly - how can this be the source? Obviously the "source" sent the full audio, otherwise it would not be there when you went back - it would always be gone.

To get an honest answer would be really refreshing.


----------



## leprechaunshawn

Holy crap!! I'm watching SportsCenter right now and just had 6 dropouts in less than 5 minutes.


----------



## wavemaster

leprechaunshawn said:


> Holy crap!! I'm watching SportsCenter right now and just had 6 dropouts in less than 5 minutes.


FoxNews (national) had about one drop per minute last night (lost count after 30) and not one was repeatable when backing up.


----------



## BKC

Mine are always repeatable after backing up or recording.


----------



## gquiring

BKC said:


> Mine are always repeatable after backing up or recording.


Same here.


----------



## wavemaster

gquiring said:


> Same here.


When they are repeatable, sometimes with or without video, I ASSume that it could be source/handling/delivery/storage. When they are not repeatable I think that leaves it at the storage/display area.


----------



## gquiring

All of my audio dropouts have been repeatable when I rewind. I never get a picture breakup or any sort of video issue during the audio problem. If I bypass my Yamaha receiver I hear the audio glitch as garbled junk. 

I recorded a few shows on FX and USA this week and more audio dropouts. I still do not get any audio issues on my locals which I find very strange. It's a good thing D* has a great DVR, as I am out of my contract now and I would love to get FIOS but their tiny hard drive has me holding out.


----------



## BKC

gquiring said:


> *It's a good thing D* has a great DVR*,


----------



## HarryD

wavemaster said:


> Thats funny stuff there.
> 
> D* won't even admit that they have had complaints. They just lie about it.


This reminds me of when D* added the LILs in 1999/2000. I (with a lot of other folks) had pixelization... real bad. I never had it before I added my locals... they wouldn't do jack about it... they told me to replace my receiver (back when you bought them). I called them many many times... and got nothing... and that's when I made the switch to Dish.

PS.. I came back to D* in 2003... after the Dishplayer horror.


----------



## SuperZ06

BKC said:


> Mine are always repeatable after backing up or recording.


*+1*


----------



## akopperl

akopperl said:


> Last night, I connected an optical cable to my HR23 and set my preamp to use HDMI for video and optical for audio. I still got some dropouts that caused my Integra's display to show that it had lost the audio signal. However, with HDMI - I was getting audio drops every 4-10 minutes on many channels (oddly enough the Integra display did not acknowledge the drop by displaying a loss of signal). Therefore, the optical cable improved things somewhat.


I spoke too soon. Tonight the audio dropouts were back regardless of whether I used the HDMI or Optical audio output. Not one of the dropouts I experienced tonight were repeatable (Modern Family recording). At this point I am extremely frustrated. The worst part is not knowing what the causes the problem. Is the HR23 defective? Is the HR23 designed differently than the HR21 resulting in additional dropouts? Is my preamp/processor defective?

I've read as many threads as I can find addressing the issue. It's obvious that many, many people are dealing with repeatable dropouts which are fairly infrequent - but enough to be bothersome. However, there also appears to be a contingent of people that are getting ridiculous numbers of dropouts to the point where the show becomes unwatchable. In some cases people have reported that they could not replicate all of the dropouts.

Since I only began experiencing the non-repeatable dropouts since I purchased the HR23 - I am leaning towards replacing the HR23. However, I would hate to go through the hassle of replacing the unit only to find that the issue lies elsewhere.


----------



## hdtvluvr

I've had a few dropouts at times for several months. Nothing major. However, last week I had dropouts on recordings every minute or so. I have an HR20-700. If I do a red button reset, the recordings go back to an occasional dropout for a couple of hours and then the multitude of dropouts begin again.

My last software update was at the end of Oct.

Has anyone gotten the new software with MRV? Did the dropouts go away?


----------



## wavemaster

akopperl said:


> I spoke too soon. Tonight the audio dropouts were back regardless of whether I used the HDMI or Optical audio output. Not one of the dropouts I experienced tonight were repeatable (Modern Family recording). At this point I am extremely frustrated. The worst part is not knowing what the causes the problem. Is the HR23 defective? Is the HR23 designed differently than the HR21 resulting in additional dropouts? Is my preamp/processor defective?
> 
> I've read as many threads as I can find addressing the issue. It's obvious that many, many people are dealing with repeatable dropouts which are fairly infrequent - but enough to be bothersome. However, there also appears to be a contingent of people that are getting ridiculous numbers of dropouts to the point where the show becomes unwatchable. In some cases people have reported that they could not replicate all of the dropouts.
> 
> Since I only began experiencing the non-repeatable dropouts since I purchased the HR23 - I am leaning towards replacing the HR23. However, I would hate to go through the hassle of replacing the unit only to find that the issue lies elsewhere.


Don't bother replacing your DVR, we have 6 of them in all different models. They all display the issue.

D* has been here twice to "check the system" which passed with flying colors.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

wavemaster said:


> Don't bother replacing your DVR, we have 6 of them in all different models. They all display the issue.
> 
> D* has been here twice to "check the system" which passed with flying colors.


That would seem to point to a firmware issue - and of course - there is an announced new National release rollout (Winter 2010 update link on the front page of DBSTalk) that just began, so that hopefully will make those symptoms go away.


----------



## wavemaster

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That would seem to point to a firmware issue - and of course - there is an announced new National release rollout (Winter 2010 update link on the front page of DBSTalk) that just began, so that hopefully will make those symptoms go away.


LOL - I hope so. It's only been 2 years now, someday it should be as reliable as the crappy old analog right?

So far I see a progression.

Since MPEG4 Launch - BAD lip syncing - got better around Aug 09. 
In Aug. - BAD Brrrrrrppppp - got a little better in Nov.
In Nov. BAD Audio drops

I can't imagine what the next "issue" will be. I guess a long as they leave our major appliances alone we should be able to live with it.


----------



## lkatzeff

Just called the Directv. They advised me that they have no recorded problems associated with audio drops. I referred them to this forum for reference. I suggest that everybody start calling them, otherwise this problem will not get fixed.


----------



## brucegrr

I don't think using normal tech support channels will do any good at all.

However, perhaps if everyone used the following contact:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global...0016#h:694.536
_
Someone will contact you and try to get your problem resolved asap its helped me in the past.

Directv's Office Of the President.
They are customer advocates_

maybe we might get some movement. SOme of us have used this link several times.

They SAY they are aware of the problem.
They SAY the engineers have be told about the problem.
They SAY they monitor this thread.

I want to believe them but I am getting ready to SAY BS.


----------



## wavemaster

lkatzeff said:


> Just called the Directv. They advised me that they have no recorded problems associated with audio drops. I referred them to this forum for reference. I suggest that everybody start calling them, otherwise this problem will not get fixed.


Amen.

I can tell you for a fact we have called and reported it many many times. We have had two techs now come out and tell us our system is ok.

There is no way they are being truthful about it. Too many people have called about it for them to not know, but unfortunately this is the new D*


----------



## lkatzeff

I emailed this to the address posted above by brucegrr:

There are numerous complaints about audio drops happening since last DVR software update on Oct. 2009. Please check the following thread for details at dbstalk.com
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167900&highlight=audio+drops

Technical support reps have no idea that it's a problem and claim that there were no record of any complaints. There are 11 pages in this forum and numerous others in other forums of customers with similar complaints.

Please take appropriate action to resolve this issue. Having intermittent audio drops every few minutes is unacceptable. There were no audio drops prior to the last software update. It's happening on all DVR's and not via direct OTA antenna connections.


----------



## gitarzan

Lots of audio dropouts in the football game today. I just sent an email to DirecTV using the 'contact us' form on directv.com. I don't expect much and will cancel my service if not fixed soon. I feel like I at least needed to let DirecTV know I have the problem if that is going to be the reason for my cancellation.

I also see where the problem is also getting reported in the support forums at diretv.com. In one case a directv customer is told that the problem must be with his Harmon Kardon AV receiver becasue he has had all of his DirecTV equipment replaced.


----------



## gitarzan

DirecTv wrote back that they have found that with my audio issue that service could be restored by simply resetting my receiver. I should either press the red button behind the panel or unplug it for 15 seconds.


----------



## gquiring

gitarzan said:


> DirecTv wrote back that they have found that with my audio issue that service could be restored by simply resetting my receiver. I should either press the red button behind the panel or unplug it for 15 seconds.


Unreal that D* is still telling everyone that BS. I was told then same non-sense.


----------



## hdtvluvr

Yesterday I forced a re-download of the firmware. I hope I don't jinx my system but since the download, I have watched over 6 hours of recorded material without any audio issues.

I followed the download instructions found here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=159394

BTW, the red button reset worked temporarily for me (about 1 - 3 hours) before audio drops started happening again.. I began to do the reset every day as a hopefully preventive measure. Hopefully re-loading the firmware will be a fix for my system.


----------



## PSUfan

I had issues with the last 24 minutes of 24 on Fox. But this is the icing on the cake tonight, FOX HD is completely out. Have to tune into channel 38. It really has been terrible with Directv lately. As much as I hate to say it, I have looked at Comcast options but they are even worse. Tough call......stuck between we think we are good and we are terrible. Your choice....


----------



## lkatzeff

I received a phone call from Customer Advocate at Directv who assured me that the audio drop problems have been escalated to their engineering dept. 

Let's hope they will get it fixed soon


----------



## BKC

I got that almost two months ago. lol


----------



## tsduke

BKC said:


> I got that almost two months ago. lol


Me too!


----------



## gquiring

No doubt the left hand is not talking to the right hand and customer service has no hands:eek2:


----------



## hdtvluvr

Well, I jinxed it. I have the dropouts now. I'm on the phone with a Customer Advocate right now and she tells me that this isn't a known problem. 

They are going to send a replacement.


----------



## tsduke

hdtvluvr said:


> Well, I jinxed it. I have the dropouts now. I'm on the phone with a Customer Advocate right now and she tells me that this isn't a known problem.
> 
> They are going to send a replacement.


What model do you have. You may end up with a older refurb unit. Replacement is a waste time IMO.


----------



## hdtvluvr

tsduke said:


> What model do you have. You may end up with a older refurb unit. Replacement is a waste time IMO.


It is an HR20-700. BTW, it was a refurb when I got it 2 years ago. I didn't know it at the time. Just saw the refurbished sticker last week.

I feel a replacement is a waste of time too but I feel I have to go through the motions with them. I also told them that I do not get all of my locals from D* and I needed them to be sure I had a way to get OTA. They said they would send another HR20. I'm sure it will be a refurb - I don't think they have been made for quite some time.


----------



## BKC

I believe our only hope is in the new software release. It may accidentally fix it just as it accidentally made it happen in the last release.


----------



## hdtvluvr

Since we can set our boxes to record shows using the web, is there a way to transfer our series manager list to a new HD DVR box? A lot of the shows on my list aren't currently being broadcast so I can't simply select them.

Please tell me there is some way to transfer the list.


----------



## LoveDoc143

hdtvluvr said:


> Since we can set our boxes to record shows using the web, is there a way to transfer our series manager list to a new HD DVR box? A lot of the shows on my list aren't currently being broadcast so I can't simply select them.
> 
> Please tell me there is some way to transfer the list.


What's this have to do with the topic we're discussing?


----------



## hdtvluvr

Well, if the new box fixes the audio dropouts then everyone will want a new box and will need to transfer their series manager.


----------



## texasbrit

BKC said:


> I believe our only hope is in the new software release. It may accidentally fix it just as it accidentally made it happen in the last release.


I think one problem here is that there are multiple issues being discussed in the same thread. If you get a glitch that is in the same place when you replay the recording, odds are it's one of the source issues that are being discussed, probably the problem with MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 transcoding with errors in the AC3 data. (Of course it could be a hard disk problem also.) If the problem does NOT repeat in the same place when you replay the recording, then it has to be internal to the DVR - either a hardware or software issue, or a combination of the two. This thread is full of "me too" responses that often confuse things. 
If the DVR passes all the disk diagnostics, and you get glitches that do not repeat when you replay the program, then it's a DVR issue. Maybe some types of DVR are more susceptible to the problem than others - for example, the HR20s are believed to have faster processing than the others. The only glitches I have on my HR20s are the "repeatable" ones. I had non-repeatable glitches on my HR21 but it failed the disk diagnostic tests and has been replaced; the new one does not seem to have the same problem, although I have not had it long.


----------



## harmil2

My audio glitches were fairly rare until just a few days ago. Now they have greatly multiplied and are quite distracting. So what changed in the last 2 days? When I back up and replay trying to hear the audio I missed, the bluuurrrrp! is always in the same place. I just noticed that I got the 395 update 3:25am today. Hopefully this will help. I will be back complaining if it doesn't.







































1


----------



## BKC

texasbrit said:


> I think one problem here is that there are multiple issues being discussed in the same thread. If you get a glitch that is in the same place when you replay the recording, odds are it's one of the source issues that are being discussed, probably the problem with MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 transcoding with errors in the AC3 data. (Of course it could be a hard disk problem also.) If the problem does NOT repeat in the same place when you replay the recording, then it has to be internal to the DVR - either a hardware or software issue, or a combination of the two. This thread is full of "me too" responses that often confuse things.
> If the DVR passes all the disk diagnostics, and you get glitches that do not repeat when you replay the program, then it's a DVR issue. Maybe some types of DVR are more susceptible to the problem than others - for example, the HR20s are believed to have faster processing than the others. The only glitches I have on my HR20s are the "repeatable" ones. I had non-repeatable glitches on my HR21 but it failed the disk diagnostic tests and has been replaced; the new one does not seem to have the same problem, although I have not had it long.


Well mine are repeatable and are constant on Speed and a couple other channels. My receiver is a HR-20 and it started with the last software update and continues to this day. I'm going to go with it being the last update and I'm still hoping the next update fixes it as mysteriously as it started.

We all know the it would have to be a stroke of luck because DTV doesn't know this problem exists....... lol


----------



## BKC

I got the software update last night and I watched the speed channel for about 5-10 minutes with no dropouts. Way too early to tell but normally 5 minutes would be long enough to have a dropout. *Fingers crossed*


----------



## Maleman

I am going to chirp in on this thread. I have had Directv for about 8 months. I never noticed any audio issues up until about 3 weeks ago. I guess this is a known issue. It was quite frustrating as my stereo receiver keeps changing audio, everytime there is an issue.

I mostly watch sports so really notice audio issues on ESPNHD and ESPN2HD. I can't pin point other channels at this time.

I just got the software update last night.


----------



## tsduke

Maleman said:


> I am going to chirp in on this thread. I have had Directv for about 8 months. I never noticed any audio issues up until about 3 weeks ago. I guess this is a known issue. It was quite frustrating as my stereo receiver keeps changing audio, everytime there is an issue.
> 
> I mostly watch sports so really notice audio issues on ESPNHD and ESPN2HD. I can't pin point other channels at this time.
> 
> I just got the software update last night.


Still getting them after the update?


----------



## Maleman

tsduke said:


> Still getting them after the update?


I will know later. I haven't watched much TV today. But I will later when the Australian Open begins again.

I did watch Ellen and didn't notice any audio issues but I was doing other stuff at the same time.
I will post back later tonight.


----------



## BKC

So much for me crossing my fingers. Dropouts are just as bad as before the update.


----------



## tsduke

BKC said:


> So much for me crossing my fingers. Dropouts are just as bad as before the update.


I'm going to be a very unhappy camper!


----------



## hdtvluvr

I have 2 - HR20-700's. We only record a few shows on DVR 1 so I haven't really been able to check for audio dropouts. The DVR 2 is used extensively and dropouts are very bad - especially on recorded material (D* and OTA feeds). Now with MRV, I can view recorded material from DVR 1 on the TV with my Yamaha RXV-3900 receiver (DVR 2 location). 

I recorded Mercy tonight on both DVR's from an OTA station. The DVR with the dropouts still had dropouts on the locally recorded Mercy. When playing the recorded Mercy from the little used DVR (using MRV) it played fine.

Based on this, I do not believe the dropouts are D* related since the D* feed wasn't used. It appears to be a playback issue with the DVR. Both DVR's are obviously on 0x395 software.

Can anyone else confirm this?


----------



## tsduke

hdtvluvr said:


> I have 2 - HR20-700's. We only record a few shows on DVR 1 so I haven't really been able to check for audio dropouts. The DVR 2 is used extensively and dropouts are very bad - especially on recorded material (D* and OTA feeds). Now with MRV, I can view recorded material from DVR 1 on the TV with my Yamaha RXV-3900 receiver (DVR 2 location).
> 
> I recorded Mercy tonight on both DVR's from an OTA station. The DVR with the dropouts still had dropouts on the locally recorded Mercy. When playing the recorded Mercy from the little used DVR (using MRV) it played fine.
> 
> Based on this, I do not believe the dropouts are D* related since the D* feed wasn't used. It appears to be a playback issue with the DVR. Both DVR's are obviously on 0x395 software.
> 
> Can anyone else confirm this?


I see it mostly in live content so it's not isolated to dvr playback.


----------



## tsduke

I've heard at 7-8 dropouts in the last 20 minutes on ESPN. It's time to me to start pushing this issue up the ladder.


----------



## Maleman

Maleman said:


> I will know later. I haven't watched much TV today. But I will later when the Australian Open begins again.
> 
> I did watch Ellen and didn't notice any audio issues but I was doing other stuff at the same time.
> I will post back later tonight.


I have been watching ESPN2HD and have had no audio issues since I tuned in about 2hrs ago.


----------



## MizzouTiger

tsduke said:


> I've heard at 7-8 dropouts in the last 20 minutes on ESPN. It's time to me to start pushing this issue up the ladder.


I had the same thing last night about the same time on ESPN while watching the Australian Open. It was on my HR20-700. I have been experiencing these dropouts for quite some time on various channels. This is the only receiver that it happens on though. I have mine connected via HDMI to my Denon 1909 receiver. My HR20-100 is connected via HDMI directly to my Philips TV. I also have an H21-200 that is connected via optical to my Yamaha receiver. I haven't had audio dropouts on the other 2 receivers.

Last night, when the audio dropouts were happening, I noticed the Denon's display was changing - the left side of the display shows the audio input signel (stereo, DD-2.1, DD-5.1, etc.). The display would quickly flicker suggesting that the Denon had lost the audio input signal from the HR20. I went into the HR20's menu and changed the audio output by turning dolby digital off. I watched for several minutes, and didn't experience any dropouts. I went back in and turned dolby digital back on and the dropouts returned.

I was at first concerned that the dropouts were indicating a problem with my Denon, but now I'm thinking it may be the HR20 itself (not necessarily DirecTv's feed). Is there possibly a pattern among all of us pointing towards a receiver issue rather than a DirecTv signal issue?

I also have my Blu-Ray player connected through the Denon and have never experienced any audio dropouts when using it.


----------



## akopperl

Just out of curiosity - does anyone that is experiencing frequent dropouts also run a media server such as PlayOn. I have been able to track my problems back to when I initially installed PlayOn. By default, it loads automatically. The day I installed PlayOn - the non-repeatable dropouts began. I changed the server to not start when my PC boots and coincidentally unplugged then restarted all of my equipment and I went 5 days without any dropouts (including 7 hours of NFL football last Sunday). Today, I manually restarted PlayOn which was recognized by my HR23 and the dropouts (non-repeatable) started again.

Until today - I had never picked up on this but I went back and verified the dates I installed the programs, etc. and it may be a coincidence - but it is worth investigating. Tomorrow I am going to unplug all of my equipment to re-establish the HDMI handshakes and see whether the dropouts disappear again. For now, I uninstalled PlayOn to be on the safe side.


----------



## CATCRAW

I have had the Audio Dropout issue for several months and it progressively was getting worse on live TV and DVR recordings. I received the new software update and it did not fix the issue. I went on the TV menu and turned off Dolby Audio and figured it wouldn't hurt anything since I play all audio through the Onkyo receiver and it fixed the issue. 2 days now and NO Audio dropouts.


----------



## Sparky Scott

I also have been having audio dropouts...I've had them for quite a few months....It does it on both my hr21-100 and also my hr21-200. I have also noticed for the most part it usually is other series receivers...


----------



## gquiring

I also got the update this week and same problem. So much for DirecTV taking this issue seriously.


----------



## Steady Teddy

Most of the dropouts I'm seeing are from OTA recordings. CBS is the worst and Fox is just a little better. I haven't recorded any ABC shows lately until the return of Lost this week. I watched all 3 recorded hours of the show and I did not experience a single audio dropout or any video pixelation. Strange.


----------



## BKC

I'm hoping with all of the coverage of Speedweeks on Speed more people will call in and maybe finally they will at least admit there is a problem instead of the "This is not a documented problem, it must be just you"


----------



## Steady Teddy

BKC said:


> I'm hoping with all of the coverage of Speedweeks on Speed more people will call in and maybe finally they will at least admit there is a problem instead of the "This is not a documented problem, it must be just you"


I forgot about Speed. I watched their entire coverage of the Rolex 24. There was constant audio dropouts while watching on either of my HR20s, but not a single dropout while watching on my H21.


----------



## SuperZ06

*Bud shootout practice on Speed full of audio drop outs. 

So so tired of this. *


----------



## Marlin Guy

I was getting drop-outs on Speed HD as well.
Since they occurred while Darryl Waltrip was talking, I just figured it was divine intervention.


----------



## SuperZ06

Marlin Guy said:


> I was getting drop-outs on Speed HD as well.
> Since they occurred while Darryl Waltrip was talking, I just figured it was divine intervention.


:lol::lol:


----------



## texasbrit

Since Speed is owned by Fox I suspect they use much of the same equipment in their audio processing chain, so the dropout problems are likely caused by the same thing.


----------



## BKC

I get very few if any on Fox and tons on Speed, this is a DTV issue....


----------



## gquiring

I got a Brrrrrrp tonight on the CW - Supernatural. So I would guess the update has brought it back. Lots of audio dropouts also. Now I am really annoyed.


----------



## rlarsen462

I am not sure if the problem is related, but I seem to have a recurring problem with the local channels over DirecTV. For the longest time I thought it was isolated to the NBC feed (leading me to believe it was a channel issue), but tonight I noticed it when watching the new episode of Lost on ABC. NOTE: I am not actually watching these shows live, I NEVER watch live TV as I work late, so it is always from the DVR (HR21-700).

Basically, there is a fairly steady "clicking" or "popping" noise that comes from mostly the surround speakers, but it will move around the speakers (Dolby enabled on the box, playing through an Integra pre/pro to Parasound amps). It is incredibly annoying and worsens when there is continuous noise through the speakers (like music). It has been doing this for as long as I can remember, but seems to be more common on NBC recordings. It bothers me that it's now on an ABC show.

I cannot recall it ever occurring on a non-local station. Can anyone tell me if this is related to the issue in this thread, as I would not describe what I am experiencing as a "dropout" (which I have experienced before)? Could it be isolated to my particular equipment? I am highly inclined to believe it is related to DTV, the HR21, or the local channels themselves since I have no other problems of this kind with my home theater system.


----------



## Inches

SuperZ06 said:


> *Bud shootout practice on Speed full of audio drop outs.
> 
> So so tired of this. *


Mee TOOOO!!! To the point of going to U-Verse...


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Happened to me a few times over the past month or so. Pressing pause, then play resumes the audio.

unit = HR20-700


----------



## gitarzan

I just suspended my service for six months. Right now is just not that enjoyable. I may turn it back on back if this issue gets fixed, or HR24 gets released, or DirectPC (or whatever that thing was) comes out. 

Oh, no what have I done, Friday night and no TV....


----------



## vfr781rider

Returning to SPEEDTV HD with NASCAR starting back up and it's TERRIBLE! It's not just the audio either. I noticed today watching the crawl along the bottom of the screen that the crawl stopped briefly when the audio dropped out. For me, SPEED HD is the only channel I am having trouble with. Quite annoying.


----------



## MizzouTiger

rlarsen462 said:


> I am not sure if the problem is related, but I seem to have a recurring problem with the local channels over DirecTV. For the longest time I thought it was isolated to the NBC feed (leading me to believe it was a channel issue), but tonight I noticed it when watching the new episode of Lost on ABC. NOTE: I am not actually watching these shows live, I NEVER watch live TV as I work late, so it is always from the DVR (HR21-700).
> 
> Basically, there is a fairly steady "clicking" or "popping" noise that comes from mostly the surround speakers, but it will move around the speakers (Dolby enabled on the box, playing through an Integra pre/pro to Parasound amps). It is incredibly annoying and worsens when there is continuous noise through the speakers (like music). It has been doing this for as long as I can remember, but seems to be more common on NBC recordings. It bothers me that it's now on an ABC show.
> 
> I cannot recall it ever occurring on a non-local station. Can anyone tell me if this is related to the issue in this thread, as I would not describe what I am experiencing as a "dropout" (which I have experienced before)? Could it be isolated to my particular equipment? I am highly inclined to believe it is related to DTV, the HR21, or the local channels themselves since I have no other problems of this kind with my home theater system.


If you are in the St. Louis area, several of us reported hearing the "popping" noise during Lost Tuesday night. It would appear to be a problem with Channel 30 here. You can check out other posts about this here


----------



## gquiring

The CW has become my worst channel now for audio issues. Dropouts and Brrrrrps all over the 2 hour special of Smallville.


----------



## BKC

I don't watch that many different channels but Speed and Science channel are really bad followed by the two ESPN's but there are plenty of others.


----------



## lkatzeff

I got a call back from their customer advocate, after the email was sent to the address mentioned above. I was advised that they aware of the problem but no fix is scheduled.

I asked to have their Engineering post a status of their investigation in this forum.
However, I don't expect that this will happen.

I would like to see more of us flood their lines with this problem. I don't think there is much attention to this now.


----------



## gquiring

lkatzeff said:


> I got a call back from their customer advocate, after the email was sent to the address mentioned above. I was advised that they aware of the problem but no fix is scheduled.
> 
> I asked to have their Engineering post a status of their investigation in this forum.
> However, I don't expect that this will happen.
> 
> I would like to see more of us flood their lines with this problem. I don't think there is much attention to this now.


I also got a call today from D*, they are still not hearing any issues with audio dropouts. They want to send me a new DVR. I told the person again explain to me how I can watch certain channels with no audio issues and other channels are a problem. I told them I was not interested in a new DVR because I would loose all my pre-recorded content on my hard drive.

They did say they would forward this thread to an engineer. But from what I understand they are not on-board with there being any audio issues.


----------



## BKC

Anybody watch the ARCA race on Speed today? There had to be 200 dropouts.


----------



## jp23mc

Yep, the ARCA race was awful and then I flipped over to ESPNHD only to have the same issue during the Tennessee/
South Carolina game. Seems like it pops up every now and again on DiscoveryHD as well. I'm going to start keeping a notebook and tracking exactly which channels are problems with my receiver.


----------



## njfoses

espnhd this am during sportscenter is dropping out every couple mins.


----------



## brucegrr

gquiring said:


> I also got a call today from D*, they are still not hearing any issues with audio dropouts. They want to send me a new DVR. I told the person again explain to me how I can watch certain channels with no audio issues and other channels are a problem. I told them I was not interested in a new DVR because I would loose all my pre-recorded content on my hard drive.
> 
> They did say they would forward this thread to an engineer. But from what I understand they are not on-board with there being any audio issues.


Sending a new receiver won't fix this problem. The problem is either from an interaction between the DVR and the audio receiver OR on the head end and all the replacement DVR's in the world won't fix this.

I don't have any other options but Directv so I am stuck. If I did I would drop Directv. But...all we have is DISH (not good for sports) and Time Warner (which currently offers 12 HD channels in our rural area). So it is Directv or nothing if you watch sports and want HD. So I live with the %%#*& audio drops and I live with the #$** denials from Directv that this is a problem.

Bruce


----------



## Steady Teddy

I placed a call to D* this morning. I did not speak with high level tech support. I explained what was happening with the constant audio dropouts, pixelation, and the noisy hard drive that started ever since the major software update last Fall. I told told to reset the HR20 and press Record + Down Arrow on the front of the unit while rebooting to scan the HD for corrupt recordings. I doubt this will fix anything. 

I have two HR20s in the same room hooked up to two TVs. I recorded the Super Bowl via OTA last night on both DVRs and the dropouts are random-they're not happening at the same time on each unit.


----------



## veryoldschool

At 325 posts, I think it would help if:
Was this live?
What channel?
Was this MPEG-4?
If these are "yes", then most likely it's on the DirecTV uplink.

If it doesn't happen live, but does while in the buffer, only on recordings, or MPEG-2 channels, then it may be in the receiver and doing the steps *Steady Teddy* posted above would be a good idea, if for no other reason than to know it isn't related to the hard drive.
The disk scan will take some time, so plan on doing it when you have a few hours, since a 300 GB drive takes 2.5 hours to complete and a 500 GB drive would take just over 4 hours.


----------



## Stryker412

gquiring said:


> The CW has become my worst channel now for audio issues. Dropouts and Brrrrrps all over the 2 hour special of Smallville.


The CW is definitely horrendous with audio drop outs. I can't watch any of their programming without drop outs. I don't really have any issues with other channels.

This is with both recorded and live programming on that channel.


----------



## BKC

Stryker412 said:


> The CW is definitely horrendous with audio drop outs. I can't watch any of their programming without drop outs. I don't really have any issues with other channels.
> 
> This is with both recorded and live programming on that channel.


What is CW, I'll check that out on mine too.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> What is CW, I'll check that out on mine too.


CW is a local channel in some markets.


----------



## gquiring

I made a video of my HR22 watching live TNT at 6pm on Feb 8, 2010. I rewound the audio glitch and grabbed my camcorder and recorded the glitch and then rewound and recorded the output of Yamaha receiver during the same glitch.


----------



## BKC

Good job! That is exactly what mine does.


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> I made a video of my HR22 watching live TNT at 6pm on Feb 8, 2010. I rewound the audio glitch and grabbed my camcorder and recorded the glitch and then rewound and recorded the output of Yamaha receiver during the same glitch.


I looked to see if I had the same recording here, but only that the L&O from an hour earlier.
This one also had a short audio dropout in the first few mins. Not using my AV amp, it was very short, but there.
"IMO" this was from TNT, but since this was a recording, I didn't watch it live.
I'm at the 10 min mark now and haven't heard another dropout.


----------



## betterdan

veryoldschool said:


> At 325 posts, I think it would help if:
> Was this live?
> What channel?
> Was this MPEG-4?
> If these are "yes", then most likely it's on the DirecTV uplink.


Was this live? *Yes*
What channel?* Fox News HD, Speed HD, TNTHD, Discovery HD for starters*
Was this MPEG-4? *Yes*

I get the audio drop outs all the time. Fox News HD and Speed HD seem to be the worst.


----------



## brucegrr

Live and recorded.

All HD channels.

ESPN the worst. TNT. USA. and all of my locals at one time or another. By far tho ESPN is the worst. However, I watch ESPN more than I do any other channel.


----------



## BKC

I just got an email from Ellen, and they're on it LOL I also sent them gquiring's youtube link.


----------



## gquiring

The FX channel tonight 47 minutes into Damages there was one audio dropout.


----------



## daystrom

I've been fighting audio issues for some time on both Time Warner and the same issues on DirecTV. All the issues I have relate to the Dolby Digital 5.1 feed.

My A/V receiver (Kenwood VR-510 THX certified) won't lock on to the DD feed from the source box. I'm hooked up with optical cable and have tried coaxial with the same issue.

Basically my audio from Fox HD, TNT HD, AMC HD, and a handful of others constantly stutters. If I switch out of DD to normal stereo downmix or Pro Logic the sound is fine. No dropouts, brrrrps, etc.

From what I have read the stuttering issue stems from some Motorola equipment installed at either the local stations or broadcast facility. A/V receivers with the Crystal DSP chip can't lock onto these signals and will either stutter or dropout. Denon, Onkyo, and Kenwood are among some of the receivers who use this DSP chip.

Last night was the first time I was able to watch Fox HD in DD with no problems and I was happy. That was until 30 minutes into House when the stuttering started up again 

There is some good info on the stuttering problem here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1188395

I've attached an MP3 from Fox as an example of my issues.

Todd


----------



## gquiring

I got a call back from Ellen's office today. They 100% are aware of the audio issues and agree replacing DVR's is not the solution. They are working on a fix that will take a few weeks. So at least they admit there is a problem now. I consider that progress.


----------



## tsduke

gquiring said:


> I got a call back from Ellen's office today. They 100% are aware of the audio issues and agree replacing DVR's is not the solution. They are working on a fix that will take a few weeks. So at least they admit there is a problem now. I consider that progress.


Problem is the next member from that team will say otherwise, but i will admit we are starting to get more of them that say they are aware.


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> I got a call back from Ellen's office today. They 100% are aware of the audio issues and agree replacing DVR's is not the solution. They are working on a fix that will take a few weeks. So at least they admit there is a problem now. I consider that progress.


The longest journey starts with the first step.
Keep the email/phone number and "keep in touch".
I had to do this for my local brriipps, which now "aren't so bad".


----------



## lkatzeff

I also got a call from "Ellen". Her actual name was Amanda and she advised me that the fix will be available in couple of weeks. However, there are two separate problems. If the audio drops can be reproduced from the same spot by rewinding then it's a Broadcaster problem and not Directv. They wanted me to keep a log of the channel and the show and they will work with specific Broadcaster to fix the problem. Other audio drops that are random and not repeatable at the same spot will have a software fix soon.
Please help Directv to identify specific instances by keeping a log and posting on this forum. I will compile them and forward to Amanda.
Let's be proactive and hopefully will get it fixed.


----------



## veryoldschool

lkatzeff said:


> I also got a call from "Ellen". Her actual name was Amanda and she advised me that the fix will be available in couple of weeks. However, there are two separate problems. If the audio drops can be reproduced from the same spot by rewinding then it's a Broadcaster problem and not Directv. They wanted me to keep a log of the channel and the show and they will work with specific Broadcaster to fix the problem. Other audio drops that are random and not repeatable at the same spot will have a software fix soon.
> Please help Directv to identify specific instances by keeping a log and posting on this forum. I will compile them and forward to Amanda.
> Let's be proactive and hopefully will get it fixed.


"Amanda" is close.
Random dropouts that don't repeat, can be part of the software and may be related to the MRV being added [pure guess on my part].
Dropouts that do repeat, can be from the broadcaster, or with the DirecTV encoder at the uplink, or in the hardware itself [if it's a hard drive issue].
This last may not be fixed "in a couple of weeks", since some of these have been around for over a year.
Logging/posting which channels/programs/times is a VERY good idea to help get them to look into them.


----------



## gquiring

Every audio dropout I had and tested was 100% repeatable. I can also tell you it's not the broadcaster because in some cases I confirmed with FIOS and Cablevision friends that watched the same show and had no audio issues.


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> Every audio dropout I had and tested was 100% repeatable. I can also tell you it's not the broadcaster because in some cases I confirmed with FIOS and Cablevision friends that watched the same show and had no audio issues.


This is the MPEG-4 encoding issue, "but" it still can be from the broadcaster as the MPEG-2 is more tolerant of the problem.
My local NBC as admitted as much about it [sometimes] being their "fault".
Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't [making it hard to always nail down].
"I would be really nice" if the encoder maker could come up with a fix for their encoders that would tolerate the corrupted/missing bits that seem to be somewhat normal in the digital feeds these days.
I'm not trying to deflect "the blame" off of DirecTV, since they're our supplier, they get our money and need to do whatever it takes to correct it.


----------



## texasbrit

gquiring said:


> Every audio dropout I had and tested was 100% repeatable. I can also tell you it's not the broadcaster because in some cases I confirmed with FIOS and Cablevision friends that watched the same show and had no audio issues.


FIOS and Cablevision don't transcode the signal from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 so there is no problem on those systems. It's only DirecTV and Dish that are having this issue, except when there is a BIG dropout from the source and then everyone hears it.


----------



## BKC

lkatzeff said:


> Broadcaster problem and not Directv.


Of course it is! :lol:

I'll put money on the software update fixes this too.


----------



## gquiring

BKC said:


> Of course it is! :lol:
> 
> I'll put money on the software update fixes this too.


If that's the line that DirecTV is going to use then here comes FIOS after 15 years of DirecTV for me. Between the audio drops and no service during bad weather storms like today I have had enough.


----------



## BKC

Sadly this is the only choice I have. I don't sit in front of the TV all day and night but I need more than one local channel. lol


----------



## brucegrr

BKC said:


> Sadly this is the only choice I have. I don't sit in front of the TV all day and night but I need more than one local channel. lol


Same here. NO FIOS. Time Warner offers 12 HD channels in our area. Antenna? We live in a no-man's land half way between Toledo Ohio and Ft Wayne Indiana.

Since I am a sports addict it is Directv or nothing. Directv has me audio dropouts and all. That doesn't mean I am happy about it. I am not. I am especially unhappy when problems are not acknowledged or they are deflected.


----------



## lkatzeff

Please try to keep a log for the next few days and post it here.


----------



## Steady Teddy

If it's a broadcast problem then why are dropouts occuring at different times on my two HR20s?


----------



## gquiring

lkatzeff said:


> Please try to keep a log for the next few days and post it here.


I can't today - Searching for satellite is all I see:nono2:


----------



## veryoldschool

Steady Teddy said:


> If it's a broadcast problem then why are dropouts occuring at different times on my two HR20s?


It would be very hard.
Do you have these live?


----------



## Steady Teddy

veryoldschool said:


> It would be very hard.
> Do you have these live?


I've yet to experience any dropout on either my H20 or H21. If it was a broadcast problem then it should not just be happening on the DVRs.


----------



## veryoldschool

Steady Teddy said:


> I've yet to experience any dropout on either my H20 or H21. If it was a broadcast problem then it should not just be happening on the DVRs.


For the Speed channel issues, I have heard/had them with my H21.
We may have more than one thing going on that ends up being all in the same bucket, "audio dropouts".
I'm really not questioning that you have problems.
I can only compare to what I have here, which isn't software, hard drive, and always seems to be in the broadcast, since the H21 does it, and two different model DVRs record it at the same time.


----------



## Steady Teddy

veryoldschool said:


> For the Speed channel issues, I have heard/had them with my H21.
> We may have more than one thing going on that ends up being all in the same bucket, "audio dropouts".
> I'm really not questioning that you have problems.
> I can only compare to what I have here, which isn't software, hard drive, and always seems to be in the broadcast, since the H21 does it, and two different model DVRs record it at the same time.


I watched the entire coverage of the Rolex 24 (all 16 hours) on Speed. Most of my viewing was from my H21 and I watched a few hours was on my HR20. All viewing was live. I did not experience a single audio dropout on the H21, but there were *constant* dropouts from the HR20.


----------



## veryoldschool

Steady Teddy said:


> I watched the entire coverage of the Rolex 24 (all 16 hours) on Speed. Most of my viewing was from my H21 and I watched a few hours was on my HR20. All viewing was live. I did not experience a single audio dropout on the H21, but there were *constant* dropouts from the HR20.


Not sure why you didn't hear them, I did on the same programing, with my H21, though not the entire coverage.


----------



## Steady Teddy

veryoldschool said:


> Not sure why you didn't hear them, I did on the same programing, with my H21, though not the entire coverage.


Assuming we have the same software version on the H21 (0x434e), then that is indeed strange...


----------



## veryoldschool

Steady Teddy said:


> Assuming we have the same software version on the H21 (0x434e), then that is indeed strange...


As was posted "somewhere" this is related to DD 5.1, and my H21 has it on and is connected though HDMI to my TV.


----------



## Steady Teddy

veryoldschool said:


> As was posted "somewhere" this is related to DD 5.1, and my H21 has it on and is connected though HDMI to my TV.


I'm also using HDMI, hooked up directly to my TV, not an AVR.


----------



## veryoldschool

Steady Teddy said:


> I'm also using HDMI, hooked up directly to my TV, not an AVR.


If you have DD 5.1 enabled, then I really have no clue why you didn't hear what I did here. It has been a bit of a PITA on speed for sometime. I watch all the F1 races and they used to have the brriipps. Now that the racing season is coming back, the Daytona shows have had the dropouts instead of the brriipps, and the skipped frames too.


----------



## Steady Teddy

veryoldschool said:


> If you have DD 5.1 enabled, then I really have no clue why you didn't hear what I did here. It has been a bit of a PITA on speed for sometime. I watch all the F1 races and they used to have the brriipps. Now that the racing season is coming back, the Daytona shows have had the dropouts instead of the brriipps, and the skipped frames too.


My bad!

I forgot about turning DD on. I had the H21 hooked up to an analog TV earlier and I forgot to change it when I bought my Sammy LCD. I just set it to DD so I guess the real testing starts now. Damn, all that time wasted. :nono:


----------



## veryoldschool

Steady Teddy said:


> My bad!
> 
> I forgot about turning DD on. I had the H21 hooked up to an analog TV earlier and I forgot to change it when I bought my Sammy LCD. I just set it to DD so I guess the real testing starts now. Damn, all that time wasted. :nono:


Glad we're now on the same page, waiting for the flag to be waved. :lol:


----------



## wolfman730

The last few days, numerous audio dropouts on Speed HD. Starting to get very annoying.


----------



## lkatzeff

It has nothing to do with DD. I have mine off and its via HDMI and the audio drops are there since october.


----------



## veryoldschool

lkatzeff said:


> It has nothing to do with DD. I have mine off and its via HDMI and the audio drops are there since october.


Maybe it's just how big/long they are.
Small/short ones may show with DD 5.1 and not PCM, and longer/larger ones show even without DD 5.1 on.
The Rolex 24 hours on Speed were fairly short.


----------



## daystrom

Could those of you who are talking about dropouts please take a listen to my mp3 attachement in this post:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2357102#post2357102

Is this the same thing you are hearing?

I get this on Fox HD, TNT HD, AMC HD, and a few others. I had this problem on Time Warner and now on D*. My A/V receiver will not lock onto the DD stream. This happens throughout the entire show I am watching. Not a briip but a constant stutter.


----------



## veryoldschool

daystrom said:


> Could those of you who are talking about dropouts please take a listen to my mp3 attachement in this post:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2357102#post2357102
> 
> Is this the same thing you are hearing?
> 
> I get this on Fox HD, TNT HD, AMC HD, and a few others. I had this problem on Time Warner and now on D*. My A/V receiver will not lock onto the DD stream. This happens throughout the entire show I am watching. Not a briip but a constant stutter.


"Not exactly"
Yours was off a local HD channel, right?
What I hear are short drops out of no sound.
What I hear on yours like closer to my local NBC, which brriipps, garbled, etc. as they have their sound really "hosed" at times.
Yours going through your A/V receiver may just get magnified and turning off DD in your DirecTV receiver, may reduce this somewhat and let your A/V receiver "stay" on PCM.

We may all be suffering from the same thing, but to different magnitudes by how our own setup handles [or doesn't] the same problem.


----------



## BKC

lkatzeff said:


> It has nothing to do with DD. I have mine off and its via HDMI and the audio drops are there since october.


Bingo!


----------



## daystrom

veryoldschool said:


> "Not exactly"
> Yours was off a local HD channel, right?


Yes that sample was from a local HD channel but I get the same on other HD channels too.

Setting to PCM does indeed fix the problem, but I am in Pro Logic then and it isn't true 5.1. It is a temporary fix however.


----------



## veryoldschool

daystrom said:


> Yes that sample was from a local HD channel but I get the same on other HD channels too.
> 
> Setting to PCM does indeed fix the problem, but I am in Pro Logic then and it isn't true 5.1. It is a temporary fix however.


"OK" then I think this is all on the same track, and what we're getting is just a difference in playback due to the different equipment being used.
If DirecTV can sort out the problem, "most" [I'll wait before I say all] of this will get resolved.


----------



## daystrom

veryoldschool said:


> "OK" then I think this is all on the same track, and what we're getting is just a difference in playback due to the different equipment being used.
> If DirecTV can sort out the problem, "most" [I'll wait before I say all] of this will get resolved.


I really don't think it is the providers problem here. Like I said I have the exact same problem on Time Warner digital cable.

From what I have read elsewhere the Dolby stuttering I am getting results from a piece of audio equipment installed at the local stations. I don't know what D* or other providers could do at this point other than complain like we all are doing.


----------



## veryoldschool

daystrom said:


> I really don't think it is the providers problem here. Like I said I have the exact same problem on Time Warner digital cable.
> 
> From what I have read elsewhere the Dolby stuttering I am getting results from a piece of audio equipment installed at the local stations. I don't know what D* or other providers could do at this point other than complain like we all are doing.


With some of my locals, it takes the DirecTV engineering to "get through" to them. Maybe this is just engineer to engineer and they simply don't listen to the viewers.
In the Brriipps thread, there was a post from a station that explained what they done/found. They worked with one of their equipment manufactures and found they had to slightly reduce the bit-rate of the audio.
Since I don't think Time Warner is transcoding to MPEG-4, "their problem" may be the provider [station]. If anybody could check the OTA feed, it might show the same thing.
Each local market has their own problems/issues, but this thread is more about the national channels that we all have in common.
If Speed, ESPN, TNT, USA, etc. are giving us problems, then it is DirecTV's responsibility to resolve it.


----------



## daystrom

veryoldschool said:


> Each local market has their own problems/issues, but this thread is more about the national channels that we all have in common.
> If Speed, ESPN, TNT, USA, etc. are giving us problems, then it is DirecTV's responsibility to resolve it.


You are right. Hopefully DirecTV can find the problem in the national's and if they all use the same equipment which I bet they do, then the locals could fix the problem too.


----------



## slopokdave

Tons of dropouts today watching Nascar on speed. Really annoying. 

I notice it on other channels all the time too, and on DVR recordings.


----------



## gquiring

26 audio dropouts and briipps on the CW last night watching Supernatural. This is getting ridiculous


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> 26 audio dropouts and briipps on the CW last night watching Supernatural. This is getting ridiculous


I think everyone's patience is fading and the irritation factor is growing.

Isn't your CW a local station?


----------



## gquiring

veryoldschool said:


> I think everyone's patience is fading and the irritation factor is growing.
> 
> Isn't your CW a local station?


The CW is a local but my OTA antenna does not do well on locals. I used it for this past snow storm, my dish was out for about 24 hours. It was equally frustrating to watch with weak antenna messages constantly popping up.


----------



## bills

i have been haveing audio dropouts and picture dropouts and i cant get all the music channels i pay for in my package. i have called for three days now. pleasent english speaking csr's but no solution. i am perplexed....


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> The CW is a local.


Locals can be a bit troublesome, since they have their own feed/uplink.
The same problems we're having with national channels can also be with locals, but to get DirecTV to focus on them, takes "enough" customers complaining from that market, or a customer contacting the local station and getting them to look into it and work with DirecTV.


----------



## veryoldschool

bills said:


> i have been haveing audio dropouts and picture dropouts and i cant get all the music channels i pay for in my package. i have called for three days now. pleasent english speaking csr's but no solution. i am perplexed....


I haven't found a CSR that can do anything about this, other than sending an email to the broadcast center, where it "sits" until there are enough for them to look into it.


----------



## Steady Teddy

I've not experienced a single audio dropout on my H21 (since setting it to DD) or my on HR20 since the (2nd) HD scan. Still too early to whip out the party hat though...


----------



## veryoldschool

Steady Teddy said:


> I've not experienced a single audio dropout on my H21 (since setting it to DD) or my on HR20 since the (2nd) HD scan. Still too early to whip out the party hat though...


Did you watch the races yesterday on you H21?
I did. 
Most were short, but still noticeable.


----------



## Steady Teddy

veryoldschool said:


> Did you watch the races yesterday on you H21?
> I did.
> Most were short, but still noticeable.


I'm not much of a Nascar fan so I only watched for a few minutes to listen for audio dropouts. The broadcast was free of dropouts on my H21 during the time I watched. I doubt I'll be watching that much Speed programming until F1, Moto GP, ALMS, and Grand Am come back in the Spring.


----------



## BKC

You could watch paint dry and skip F-1


----------



## gquiring

Several dropouts on USA's Burn Notice. Nothing crazy like the CW issues I am having but still annoying.


----------



## pappasbike

I'm in Baltimore and maybe my issue is local but th drop outs on NBC WBAL channel 11 during the Olympics coverage is horrible. I normally have very few audio problems on this station but tonight is a real mess.


----------



## lkatzeff

In summary: Audio drops occur when recorded shows are being played back from my HR20-700. These video recordings are mostly direct OTA from local antenna to the DVR.
Also, they include video feeds from Directv. I noticed audio drops on TNT, USA, FX in addition to all other local channels. When replaying back, the instance of audio drop is not always there.
There are NO audio drops when watching live. Also there are no audio drops when using strictly my Plasma's internal tuner for OTA. No audio drops on H21.
Based on the above observations, I conclude the problem lies with Directv software and not a Broadcaster issue. Otherwise the audio drops would occur on live viewing also.
It seems that there are a lot of issues related to Speed channel. It may be a different issue there.


----------



## shendley

Anyone seeing audio drops on Showtime-HD (mpeg4 channel)? I watched a recording of The Tudors from 1/31 last night and saw at least 4 short (about a second) audio drops. When I rewound, they were still there. And though I haven't kept track of these things until recently, it's seemed to me that Showtime has this problem more than some other stations I tend to watch.


----------



## iamqnow

BKC said:


> Anyone other than me noticing a lot of audio dropouts? I notice it more on Speed but it is on other channels too. I did a RBR but it didn't do a thing to help. HR20-100
> 
> Last night I timed it a couple times and it would have a quick dropout five times in seven minutes. Once in awhile you can notice a little stutter in the picture at the same time. Receiver taking a dump maybe? It's been like this for a week and it's starting to get annoying. lol TIA


Getting worse by the day. Got a free 3 month Starz anniversary gift and everything I record skips so much it's ridiculous.


----------



## BKC

shendley said:


> Anyone seeing audio drops on Showtime-HD (mpeg4 channel)? I watched a recording of The Tudors from 1/31 last night and saw at least 4 short (about a second) audio drops. When I rewound, they were still there. And though I haven't kept track of these things until recently, it's seemed to me that Showtime has this problem more than some other stations I tend to watch.


My Showtime has quite a few too.


----------



## Ancient1

I just replaced an HR21-700 yesterday, as I was getting lots of audio drops on both live and recorded material, even to the point of losing the picture briefly or getting pixilization. I bought an HR23-700, and so far the problem has disappeared. Haven't looked at any recorded programs yet, but will report back if the dropouts rear their ugly heads again.


----------



## gquiring

Ancient1 said:


> I just replaced an HR21-700 yesterday, as I was getting lots of audio drops on both live and recorded material, even to the point of losing the picture briefly or getting pixilization. I bought an HR23-700, and so far the problem has disappeared. Haven't looked at any recorded programs yet, but will report back if the dropouts rear their ugly heads again.


If you just bought the DVR it's probably running the older code which will be updated soon. Can you check the version?


----------



## shendley

Point of clarification: is the sort of problem mentioned below really the same problem as the audio drops? The audio drops seem to be quite distinctive and relatively new, whereas pixelation and picture loss has been an increasingly rare problem (in my experience, at least) that goes quite a ways back. But I really don't know. Are they distinct or more or less of the same thing?



Ancient1 said:


> I just replaced an HR21-700 yesterday, as I was getting lots of audio drops on both live and recorded material, even to the point of losing the picture briefly or getting pixilization. I bought an HR23-700, and so far the problem has disappeared. Haven't looked at any recorded programs yet, but will report back if the dropouts rear their ugly heads again.


----------



## redwood26

These dropouts are happening regularly watching the Olympics on my Direct TV HD local NBC channel. It also happens any time on this HD NBC channel in the Sacramento area. The brrip happens during recorded and live tv, and rarely is the video affected, only the audio. 
I am only using my Vizio TV internal speakers. I just got HD a few weeks ago with an HR23 700 and these brrips happened from my first day with this new HD receiver, not with my old standard Tivo receiver.
The dropouts do NOT happen at all in my bedroom with a standard (non-HD) receiver, so it is not the outside dish? I just called CSR, and he had me reset the receiver, which did not work. He said to call back if it is not fixed, and he will have an engineer deal with it, whatever that means?

Seems to me we should get a credit on our account until this is fixed, perhaps then they will acknowledge this obviously nationwide problem.


----------



## gquiring

It's so weird I rarely get an audio drop on NBC or ABC, never on CBS and lots on the CW and most nationals like TNT and SyFy. I have been watching a lot of NBC because of the Olympics (actually all of it) and I don't think I had more than 2 audio glitches.


----------



## veryoldschool

redwood26 said:


> These dropouts are happening regularly watching the Olympics on my Direct TV HD local NBC channel. It also happens any time on this HD NBC channel in the Sacramento area. The brrip happens during recorded and live tv, and rarely is the video affected, only the audio.
> I am only using my Vizio TV internal speakers. I just got HD a few weeks ago with an HR23 700 and these brrips happened from my first day with this new HD receiver, not with my old standard Tivo receiver.
> The dropouts do NOT happen at all in my bedroom with a standard (non-HD) receiver, so it is not the outside dish? I just called CSR, and he had me reset the receiver, which did not work. He said to call back if it is not fixed, and he will have an engineer deal with it, whatever that means?
> 
> Seems to me we should get a credit on our account until this is fixed, perhaps then they will acknowledge this obviously nationwide problem.


Welcome to the nightmare of KCRA HD.
While we can blame various other channels on DirecTV or almost anything else, KCRA seems to be the sole blame for their crap.


----------



## redwood26

very interesting...why can't KCRA deal with this? Is it a money issue? Wouldn't they be getting hundreds of complaints during the Olympics by their Direct TV viewers?

Also, why is it random? It happened all afternoon, and now nothing for the last hour. Also, I noticed it suddenly stopped for about two hours or more during the Opening ceremonies Friday night, but continued the next day?


----------



## veryoldschool

redwood26 said:


> very interesting...why can't KCRA deal with this? Is it a money issue? Wouldn't they be getting hundreds of complaints during the Olympics by their Direct TV viewers?
> 
> Also, why is it random? It happened all afternoon, and now nothing for the last hour. Also, I noticed it suddenly stopped for about two hours or more during the Opening ceremonies Friday night, but continued the next day?


You could email http://www.kcra.com/station/1843006/detail.html
And ask engineering.
This has been a problem for a long time. It finally got so bad [for me] that in Sept '08 I started communicating with them & DirecTV. At that time there were problems with all our locals. Almost all others have resolved theirs [well they might have one every so often], yet KCRA just hasn't ever reliably resolved "whatever" their problems are.


----------



## epi

redwood26 said:


> very interesting...why can't KCRA deal with this? Is it a money issue? Wouldn't they be getting hundreds of complaints during the Olympics by their Direct TV viewers?
> 
> Also, why is it random? It happened all afternoon, and now nothing for the last hour. Also, I noticed it suddenly stopped for about two hours or more during the Opening ceremonies Friday night, but continued the next day?


I agree. There is an absurd number of audio dropouts and brps during the Olympic games. It is rather intermittent in some ways though -- some brps about every minute today (sunday during the luge) and then none during the skating tonight. On Saturday, maybe I was imaging but an audio dropout would occur about 30 seconds before KCRA would put up their program note across the bottom (of course right across the speed skating times on the bottom of the screen).


----------



## Spoffo

In answer to the question about Showtime HD, YES, that's one of the few channels that regularly give me 1-2 second audio dropouts. I'm now getting the same kind in the Olympics, but not in other NBC programming on the same channel.

I only get these dropouts in the rig that has an HR20-700 feeding Optical audio to an Onkyo receiver (vintage 2006.) On two other rigs, which use the onboard speakers in smaller HDTVs via the HDMI feed from an HR20, I never get dropouts. Also, if I change the output from the HR20 to the Onkyo (Still using optical) from Dolby to plain stereo PCM, the dropouts go away.

There was something similar a number of years ago where broadcasters (or maybe it was DVDs) started using an obscure flag in the Dolby bitstream. The Dolby chips used in certain brands of receivers (Onkyo was one) misinterpreted this as a signal to mute the audio for a second or two.

This seems awfully similar. And, if it is specific to only certain broadcasters' Dolby format interacting with only certain hardware combinations, DirecTv's seeming confusion about this would be understandable.


----------



## pappasbike

gquiring said:


> It's so weird I rarely get an audio drop on NBC or ABC, never on CBS and lots on the CW and most nationals like TNT and SyFy. I have been watching a lot of NBC because of the Olympics (actually all of it) and I don't think I had more than 2 audio glitches.


With the CW and TNT my experience is just like yours, regular audio dropouts. Normally I don't get them on the local NBC channel WBAL 11 in Baltimore. However during the nightly Olympics coverage it happens frequently. One night was very irritating. During the daytime broadcasts I almost never have it happen. On local Channel 24 ( My 24 ) in Baltimore audio and video are horrible on the HD channel through DTV. I'm not sure what network that station is on, it used to be UPN now DTV lists it as MNT whatever that is.


----------



## daystrom

Spoffo said:


> There was something similar a number of years ago where broadcasters (or maybe it was DVDs) started using an obscure flag in the Dolby bitstream. The Dolby chips used in certain brands of receivers (Onkyo was one) misinterpreted this as a signal to mute the audio for a second or two.
> 
> This seems awfully similar. And, if it is specific to only certain broadcasters' Dolby format interacting with only certain hardware combinations, DirecTv's seeming confusion about this would be understandable.


I'm betting this is the same issue and we all hear it a bit differently due to differences in AVR's. I myself never ever have issues on NBC, ABC, Showtime, Starz, Discovery, History, and many others. I DO have problems with Fox, TNT, AMC, Nick, and a few others. My issues are not total silence dropouts but short 1/8 second mutes (listen to my sample a few pages back).

Here's a vintage thread circa 2003 about this same issue. It's been around for a long time. In fact I can remember renting the Pearl Harbor movie DVD when it came out in 2001/02. This was the first time I had ever heard this issue on my own equipment. It turns out that DVD was encoded with that strange Dolby flag.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/106793/onlyo-tx-ds-797-dolby-dropout-help

I'm looking to replace my Kenwood with something else just to fix this problem but I'm afraid whatever I get to replace it will do the same or in fact be worse.


----------



## betterdan

Spoffo said:


> I only get these dropouts in the rig that has an HR20-700 feeding Optical audio to an Onkyo receiver (vintage 2006.) On two other rigs, which use the onboard speakers in smaller HDTVs via the HDMI feed from an HR20, I never get dropouts. Also, if I change the output from the HR20 to the Onkyo (Still using optical) from Dolby to plain stereo PCM, the dropouts go away.
> 
> There was something similar a number of years ago where broadcasters (or maybe it was DVDs) started using an obscure flag in the Dolby bitstream. The Dolby chips used in certain brands of receivers (Onkyo was one) misinterpreted this as a signal to mute the audio for a second or two.
> 
> This seems awfully similar. And, if it is specific to only certain broadcasters' Dolby format interacting with only certain hardware combinations, DirecTv's seeming confusion about this would be understandable.


I also get audio dropouts from my HR20 hooked up via optical to a few years old Onkyo receiver. If I turn DD off the drop outs disappear but I shouldn't have to do that. 
I hope they get this crap fixed soon.


----------



## daystrom

betterdan said:


> ...
> I hope they get this crap fixed soon.


Me too!

But I have to say the problem does NOT lie with DirecTV. This is a broadcaster problem. I can confirm this because it has happened to me on the same channels on Time Warner Cable with two different digital boxes (a Sci. Atlanta, and a Samsung) and with DirecTV on a HR20-700.

That's two providers and three different boxes. The providers are just passing along the dirty signal.

Edit:

Here's some more info from someone in Canada on CATV - same issues:

http://digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=953118&postcount=5

(full thread: http://digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=108858)


----------



## scott72

I'm also getting these annoying drop outs. At first I thought it was my Onkyo, until I stumbled onto this thread. I was getting ready to change HDMI cables, ports, etc.


----------



## scott72

daystrom said:


> Me too!
> 
> But I have to say the problem does NOT lie with DirecTV. This is a broadcaster problem. I can confirm this because it has happened to me on the same channels on Time Warner Cable with two different digital boxes (a Sci. Atlanta, and a Samsung) and with DirecTV on a HR20-700.
> 
> That's two providers and three different boxes. The providers are just passing along the dirty signal.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Here's some more info from someone in Canada on CATV - same issues:
> 
> http://digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=953118&postcount=5
> 
> (full thread: http://digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=108858)


I notice it on Fox a lot. I was watching some of the race yesterday and was getting several drop outs. I don't remember getting any during the Olympic coverage on NBC.


----------



## CrownSeven

daystrom said:


> Me too!
> 
> But I have to say the problem does NOT lie with DirecTV. This is a broadcaster problem. I can confirm this because it has happened to me on the same channels on Time Warner Cable with two different digital boxes (a Sci. Atlanta, and a Samsung) and with DirecTV on a HR20-700.


How is this NOT their problem? I could care less who's the originator of the issue, Directv either needs to implement a fix, or work with the content providers. In my line of work, if I told my customers that its not my issue, that wouldn't go over very well.

Its amazing how I had NEVER experienced this issue with Comcast, but do with Directv.


----------



## daystrom

What I was saying is the problem is not in DirecTV's equipment. They need to work with the content providers at this point.

When were you with Comcast? I *never *had a problem on Time Warner up until the fall of 2009. Now I have the exact same problem on DirecTV. I just switched two weeks ago in hopes that the audio issues were on TWC. Now I see they weren't.


----------



## redwood26

Here what my local NBC station sent me this morning after I asked if they were working to solve this problem with Direct TV:

Brian, 
We are working with DirecTv and our encoder manufacturer (Harmonic) to isolate the issue. Our over the air and cable signals which are derived from the same feed do not experience this issue. DirecTv and Harmonic are working on a solution. The audio overflow issue Harmonic states is within tolerance and is acceptable which is why our over the air and cable viewers do not experience the issue, but the number of downstream processing DirecTv does is compounding the issue. Nevertheless this is an issue we are determined to remedy. This is a problem that needs to be fixed regardless of where the problem is. I apologize for the issue but please know we are doing what we can to minimze and eliminate the problem.
Regards,
KCRA


----------



## BKC

[fanboy]*That can't possibly be true* [[/fanboy] :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

redwood26 said:


> We are working with DirecTv and our encoder manufacturer (*Harmonic*) to isolate the issue. Our over the air and cable signals which are derived from the same feed do not experience this issue. DirecTv and *Harmonic* are working on a solution. The audio overflow issue *Harmonic states is within tolerance* and is acceptable which is why our over the air and cable viewers do not experience the issue, but the number of downstream processing DirecTv does is compounding the issue. Nevertheless this is an issue we are determined to remedy. This is a problem that needs to be fixed regardless of where the problem is. I apologize for the issue but please know we are doing what we can to minimze and eliminate the problem.
> Regards,
> KCRA


[don't get me started about my years working for them :nono2: :nono2:]

Since the signal basically goes from a Harmonic MPEG-2 encoder, OTA to another Harmonic MPEG-4 encoder, "maybe" their @#[email protected]#[email protected] tolerances aren't as good as "they think" they are. :nono: :nono: :nono:


----------



## Ancient1

It has been nearly a week now with the new HR23-700, and we have yet to notice any of the dropouts in either audio or video that were occuring with the HR21-700. You are correct in citing KCRA as one of the worst offenders, but so far, the new receiver isn't having the problem. Am watching the Olympics now, and everything is coming through just fine. We also had a lot of trouble on Fox40, Food Channel, and HGTV, but everything seems fine now. 
I don't know what "version" of software the HR23 is running, and I am not sure I even know how to find out. (One of the problems of growing old). If you can guide me through it, I will certainly provide that information.


----------



## BKC

Use the remote and press "Menu" select "set up" then "system setup" the software is listed there.


----------



## Ancient1

Okay - I played around in the menu, and the setup screen tells me I have software version Ox395, last up-dated 2/12/10. So I think I would have the latest version - right?


----------



## BKC

Yes, that's the new one.


----------



## veryoldschool

Ancient1 said:


> Okay - I played around in the menu, and the setup screen tells me I have software version Ox395, last up-dated 2/12/10. So I think I would have the latest version - right?


You are in the "same boat" as the rest of us.
While you may not have noticed it [yet], I'm sure if one of us had the time it happened with KCRA, then the rest of us would find it too. There is just way too much information pointing to it being in the uplink chain and not at "our end". Using an AV amp may make it worse, and turning Dolby off may make it better.
"So" have you checked that you have Dolby turned on?


----------



## redwood26

It was fine for about 2 hours of the Olympics, then it began again. But this time, the brripps began after sound going completely out for about 5 minutes as well as some intermittent background audio only. It's as if KCRA or others may be actually working on it as we speak?

I just got my HR23-700 a few weeks ago with the 0x395 version. I do not have any external surround system, just my Vizio built-in speakers.


----------



## lkatzeff

If it's Broadcaster problem then why it's not happening on live feeds or OTA connected directly to tv's tuner?


----------



## veryoldschool

lkatzeff said:


> If it's Broadcaster problem then why it's not happening on live feeds or OTA connected directly to tv's tuner?


It's a MPEG-4 problem and it "may come" from imperfections in the MPEG-2 signal that since it isn't transcoded doesn't show it.


----------



## Maleman

Yikes, lots of dropouts watching Nurse Betty on Showtime. And most of my other HD channels which I only watch.

Anybody know what has happened over the past month or so??? I never had so many drop outs before that time frame, mmmm I am thinking this issue started after the last update, at least for me.  its horrible


----------



## rlbfsb

We are having the same problems with audio dropouts watching the Olympics on the Fresno California NBC affiliate (KSEE channel 24) with an AM21 attached to a HR22-100. Around 2 hours into the coverage the audio starts it dropouts but then it will go out for 10 to 20 seconds at a time. If we change the channel and then go back to NBC the sound is fine for the rest of the night. We haven't noticed it on any other channel but then again we don't watch many shows over 2 hours in length. Just wanted to add my two cents.


----------



## gquiring

I just noticed something very odd, I have been complaining about how the CW (ch 11) is terrible for Smallville and Supernatural, yet everyday I record Two and Half men at 11pm and I don't get a single audio drop. Is that because the CW and ch11 are different when it goes back to local content for each area?


----------



## BKC

I just got a follow up call form Ellen's office and he said they will be sending out a *SOFTWARE* update in a week or two to correct this. Sure hope it's correct info.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> I just got a follow up call form Ellen's office and he said they will be sending out a *SOFTWARE* update in a week or two to correct this. Sure hope it's correct info.


Wonder what will get the software? Could it be the encoders?


----------



## sailermon

veryoldschool said:


> [don't get me started about my years working for them :nono2: :nono2:]
> 
> Since the signal basically goes from a Harmonic MPEG-2 encoder, OTA to another Harmonic MPEG-4 encoder, "maybe" their @#[email protected]#[email protected] tolerances aren't as good as "they think" they are. :nono: :nono: :nono:


So, you are saying it is the local stations problem and not DTV?

We have so many 'Bluuuurps' on KCRA Sacramento that my wife asks "Why do we pay for this?" The more action (data) there is the worse it becomes. That's why the Olympic coverage is so bad.

I e-mailed the KCRA Engineering Department about the problem and they didn't bother to respond. I certainly hope this is fixed soon!


----------



## Cobra

local channels are the only ones I dont get audio dropouts, speed tv is the worse


----------



## daystrom

gquiring said:


> I just noticed something very odd, I have been complaining about how the CW (ch 11) is terrible for Smallville and Supernatural, yet everyday I record Two and Half men at 11pm and I don't get a single audio drop. Is that because the CW and ch11 are different when it goes back to local content for each area?


Yes. When you are watching Smallville and Supernatural you are probably watching the network feed (CW) from ch.11. When you record Two and a Half men you are watching local content.

I had (notice I say had) the same issue here in NE Ohio watching Fox. All the network content had problems. When the local station went to news or local commercials the problems went away. Only during Fox primetime did I ever have issues.

I think something was fixed at my local Fox station as the past few nights I have had flawless audio :biggthump


----------



## veryoldschool

sailermon said:


> So, you are saying it is the local stations problem and not DTV?
> 
> We have so many 'Bluuuurps' on KCRA Sacramento that my wife asks "Why do we pay for this?" The more action (data) there is the worse it becomes. That's why the Olympic coverage is so bad.
> 
> I e-mailed the KCRA Engineering Department about the problem and they didn't bother to respond. I certainly hope this is fixed soon!


At some point I think it's a Harmonic [maker of the encoders] problem.
KCRA has had their own problems, which was in their OTA signal.
They too have moved me to the ignore list it seems as they may have run out of "excuses" [reasons] why it's still happening.
I can see them sending their encoder to Harmonic and having it "checked out", where they ran it across their bench and found nothing wrong [by their standards].
I can also see DirecTV doing the same thing and getting the same from Harmonic.
What might have to happen is for Harmonic to drive 2 hours to Sacramento, with two teams. One monitors KCRA and the second monitors the DirecTV uplink. I'd guess only when this could be done, would Harmonic realize it was their problem.
With so many people/groups involved it's way too easy to keep pointing fingers at "the other guy" for it being their fault.
KCRA's number one concern is to get their signal out over OTA well. If they feel or can prove they're doing that, then they may feel they've met their responsibility. "In their spare time" [read budget] they want to help get their signal working with DirecTV.
Since the problem isn't only with KCRA, I'd guess there is some merit to KCRA's approach/position.
DirecTV really needs to hold Harmonic's feet to the fire for them to come up with a "real world" solution, and not simply be content that their equipment functions within their lab testing.
When I worked for Harmonic [back when they called themselves Harmonic-Lightwaves], they weren't too interested in things like this.


----------



## JTWestside

Just found this thread because I was trying to watch recorded programs from local fox station (Cleveland Brown, American Dad, etc ..) and the dropouts were so bad we just stopped watching. I was checking to see if it was a known issue and from the looks of this thread it appears to be.


----------



## shendley

I've been trying to track my audio drops more carefully lately and I noticed one tonight on a recording that did not recur when I rewound and played it back. What does that mean? Obviously it's not the problem this thread is devoted to. Just curious to see if anyone knows what's up with it.


----------



## veryoldschool

shendley said:


> I've been trying to track my audio drops more carefully lately and I noticed one tonight on a recording that did not recur when I rewound and played it back. What does that mean? Obviously it's not the problem this thread is devoted to. Just curious to see if anyone knows what's up with it.


"This" may get resolved in the next software update for the receiver.
It may be due to the MRV addition in this release [pure guess on my part].


----------



## tsduke

shendley said:


> I've been trying to track my audio drops more carefully lately and I noticed one tonight on a recording that did not recur when I rewound and played it back. What does that mean? Obviously it's not the problem this thread is devoted to. Just curious to see if anyone knows what's up with it.


Actually quite the contrary. This thread wasn't started on dropouts that could be played back on the dvr and heard in the same spot. It seems to have evolved beyond what the thread was created on.


----------



## BKC

tsduke said:


> Actually quite the contrary. *This thread wasn't started on dropouts that could be played back on the dvr and heard in the same spot*.


Umm, yes it was.


----------



## tsduke

BKC said:


> Umm, yes it was.


That shows how much of a mess this issue is causing. None of my posts referred to a dropout I can play back. None. I actually started a post on this before you in the HDDVR area.


----------



## BKC

It's a mess for sure. All of mine can be played back, with or without DD on, with or without going through the sound system and it all started with the software release.


----------



## tsduke

BKC said:


> It's a mess for sure. All of mine can be played back, with or without DD on, with or without going through the sound system and it all started with the software release.


Mine did not start with the latest release that has MRV beta opt in so not sure how we can blame it on that. This started with 0368 on 11/3/2010 for me.


----------



## BKC

tsduke said:


> Mine did not start with the latest release that has MRV beta opt in so not sure how we can blame it on that. This started with 0368 on 11/3/2010 for me.


That's the release I'm talking about too, two releases ago.


----------



## shendley

Actually before reading this thread, I never even thought to rewind and see if the audio drop could be played back. But in the light of the discussions, that seems a relevant difference. And, as others have said, my problems with the audio drops began with the last NR as well.


----------



## Ancient1

The last couple of days, we are starting to get the "burp" drop-out on KCRA. Unlike with my prior receiver, where the drops lasted several seconds, these are just a quick "brip", so you only lose a word, or maybe even just a part of a word. No loss of video at all, which was a problem with the prior receiver. We have not noticed any problem on any other channel, including FOX40 or Food Channel, both of which used to have terrible drop-out problems, both on audio and video.
Is KCRA the only station using Harmonic equipment?


----------



## SuperZ06

tsduke said:


> Mine did not start with the latest release that has MRV beta opt in so not sure how we can blame it on that. This started with 0368 on 11/3/2010 for me.


*Same Here*


----------



## scottchez

Drop outs watching CBS Survivor.

Wife has given me notice to fix it in 2 weeks or switch to cable.

She knows that our DirecTV contract is up.

Sure hope they fix this soon with a software update on our home boxes or at the TV stations uplink end.


----------



## gquiring

It's the same status for me my locals except the CW are fine but nationals like USA, TNT, FX all have dropouts.


----------



## hdtvluvr

I am getting confused with these audio dropouts. Here is what I have:

1. skips in audio and video with MRV. - known problem and apparently will be soon fixed with a software update.

2. dropouts on recorded material from D* provided locals and other channels. - being blamed on encoders changing data from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 

3. dropouts on recorded material from OTA HD channels - Why is this happening? These are broadcast in Mpeg2.


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvluvr said:


> I am getting confused with these audio dropouts. Here is what I have:
> 
> 1. skips in audio and video with MRV. - known problem and apparently will be soon fixed with a software update.
> 
> 2. dropouts on recorded material from D* provided locals and other channels. - being blamed on encoders changing data from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4
> 
> 3. dropouts on recorded material from OTA HD channels - Why is this happening? These are broadcast in Mpeg2.



Yes, newer versions are working well.
There is a known issues with going from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 and any weakness in the MPEG-2 gets magnified.
OTA is MPEG-2. Have you watched any of these live? The same problems may be in the MPEG-2 stream, which could go back to #2.


----------



## hdtvluvr

veryoldschool said:


> 3. OTA is MPEG-2. Have you watched any of these live? The same problems may be in the MPEG-2 stream, which could go back to #2.
> [/LIST]


Live OTA doesn't seem to have problems. However, I watch more recorded shows than live shows. So are you saying that any weakness in the MPEG-2 will still cause problems when recorded and may or may not when watched live? The DVR doesn't convert MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 so why would that matter?


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvluvr said:


> Live OTA doesn't seem to have problems. However, I watch more recorded shows than live shows. So are you saying that any weakness in the MPEG-2 will still cause problems when recorded and may or may not when watched live? The DVR doesn't convert MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 so why would that matter?


What you see live should be the same as recorded. If you can replay the dropout and not have it repeat, then there is something going on in the receiver that is causing this. There have been posts about this and hopefully a new software update would address this.
If replaying has the dropout at the same place, then it was recorded this way and it either came from the station this way, or from the hard drive. You can run a disk scan on the drive and check its status.


----------



## perkolater

I'm getting the same thing, on all of my receivers, both DVR and non DVRs. Audio dropouts every 5-10 seconds, mainly on local channels. The locals via OTA do not have the problem. Very frustrating.


----------



## hdtvluvr

veryoldschool said:


> What you see live should be the same as recorded. If you can replay the dropout and not have it repeat, then there is something going on in the receiver that is causing this. There have been posts about this and hopefully a new software update would address this.
> If replaying has the dropout at the same place, then it was recorded this way and it either came from the station this way, or from the hard drive. You can run a disk scan on the drive and check its status.


When I called D* about the problem, they sent a new to me (refurb) DVR. It is what I am dealing with now. It has the same problems as the one I sent back. I have scanned the disk twice and I assume, since when I return it has a picture, that the hard drive is fine.


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvluvr said:


> When I called D* about the problem, they sent a new to me (refurb) DVR. It is what I am dealing with now. It has the same problems as the one I sent back. I have scanned the disk twice and I assume, since when I return it has a picture, that the hard drive is fine.


Without an error code, "it passed".


----------



## lkatzeff

Any idea when the software upgrade is coming? I was told by "Ellen" two weeks ago that it should be here by now.
Based on all the comments, it seems that there are different opinions about the causes. The only common ground is that we did not have any of these problems prior to a software update last October. So let's hope that Directv will figure it out.


----------



## veryoldschool

lkatzeff said:


> Any idea when the software upgrade is coming? I was told by "Ellen" two weeks ago that it should be here by now.
> Based on all the comments, it seems that there are different opinions about the causes. The only common ground is that we did not have any of these problems prior to a software update last October. So let's hope that Directv will figure it out.


It isn't really "common ground" in that some of this has been going on a long time and before the upgrade in October.
More may have noticed it of late.
I will say that I'm testing the new software and HBO tonight has shown some very strange problems along this line. From what I can tell their signal is the cause, be it from them [HBO] directly or through the transcoding to MPEG-4, but it has caused problems that aren't on other recordings I've been watching for weeks and some are repeatable while others don't repeat, yet I have every expectation it is truly a crappy signal that is causing my receiver to screw up.


----------



## JeffBowser

I put in a new AV receiver this week. These audio dropouts are much more gracefully handled now. I get a momentary silence now instead of a bunch of clickety-clack and lengthy sound disruption while the receiver figures out what to do. Makes it more tolerable, anyway.


----------



## daystrom

Jeff,

What kind of AVR did you get? I'm planning on doing the same thing soon to replace my Kenwood with maybe an Onkyo.


----------



## JeffBowser

Some might laugh, but I look more to price-performance than brand name and psuedo-scientific claims. Ergo, I bought a Sony STR-DN1000. It had all the features I wanted, all the power I needed, and was less than half the cost of others I considered.

Reviews will tell you its upscaler sucks, but I don't use the upscaler, I send the signal through untouched. I don't think it's the place of the AVR to screw with the video signal.


----------



## BKC

lkatzeff said:


> Any idea when the software upgrade is coming? I was told by "Ellen" two weeks ago that it should be here by now.
> Based on all the comments, it seems that there are different opinions about the causes. The only common ground is that we did not have any of these problems prior to a software update last October. So let's hope that Directv will figure it out.


They told me on the 16th it would be "A week or two" It can't come fast enough. It's pretty obvious that update caused the problem regardless of how many times some post it's the networks problem.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> They told me on the 16th it would be "A week or two" It can't come fast enough. It's pretty obvious that update caused the problem regardless of how many times some post it's the networks problem.


I really hope your next update will resolve your problems, but I just don't think it will, from what many are seeing.


----------



## BKC

I guess it will depend on if they have a fix before the next update is due out or not. They should work on offering several versions of software so when they screw up like this we could force a download of the version we want.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> I guess it will depend on if they have a fix before the next update is due out or not. They should work on offering several versions of software so when they screw up like this we could force a download of the version we want.


I do see your point, but not sure it will/could happen.
Everyone needs to be "on the same page".

The crap I saw on HBO last night, I've seen before on HBO before [though not quite as bad].
Why I really think it was HBO is that I've seen it on both the MPEG-4 [transcoded] and the MPEG-2 channels. It also seems to have the same pattern. It seems to show up during the first 20 mins or so and then have a very bad spot near the one hour mark. This pattern seems to be unique to HBO and with their first run/aired new movie on Saturday night.


----------



## delco7

Ok. As I'm really pissed at D*, I got Comcrap hooked up to check it out. After all, if I don't like it, there's no contract. I'll just take their stuff back and drop it on their toes and no charge. Anyway, Rubbing my hands with glee, I turned to Speed. Hmmm... EXACT SAME AUDIO DROPOUTS!!!!! What's up with THAT?????? It aint D*!!


----------



## tsduke

delco7 said:


> Ok. As I'm really pissed at D*, I got Comcrap hooked up to check it out. After all, if I don't like it, there's no contract. I'll just take their stuff back and drop it on their toes and no charge. Anyway, Rubbing my hands with glee, I turned to Speed. Hmmm... EXACT SAME AUDIO DROPOUTS!!!!! What's up with THAT?????? It aint D*!!


I believe Speed is an exception and is a source issue.


----------



## veryoldschool

tsduke said:


> I believe Speed is an exception and is a source issue.


If it's "an exception", what is the norm? [maybe more to the point what channels?]


----------



## daystrom

delco7 said:


> Ok. As I'm really pissed at D*, I got Comcrap hooked up to check it out. After all, if I don't like it, there's no contract. I'll just take their stuff back and drop it on their toes and no charge. Anyway, Rubbing my hands with glee, I turned to Speed. Hmmm... EXACT SAME AUDIO DROPOUTS!!!!! What's up with THAT?????? It aint D*!!


That's what I have been saying. It aint D*'s fault, it's the networks. I have the EXACT same audio issues on Time Warner that I have on D*.

The problem is a combination of out of spec Dolby Digital signals and certain A/V receivers. Some drop out and you don't hear anything while the AVR tries to sync up again. Others like mine have a choppy stuttering sound throughout the entire program. Even if you don't have an AVR hooked to your STB, your TV still has a DD processor in it.


----------



## brucegrr

I think it is an equipment issue.

I fixed my audio dropouts. 

Today I added a monoprice 4 hdmi switch with digital, optical out.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

Bingo. No more audio dropouts. None, nada, zero

I guess it could that Directv miraculously fixed it at the same time today.....

I should add that I upgraded all my hdmi cables to a heavier gauge cable.


----------



## celticpride

I had audio dropouts over the weekend on FX,TNT, and,ABC! I am so close to leaving directv after 15 years.


----------



## Aldeb

Longtime lurker and first time poster. Sorry if this has been mentioned and I missed it, but thought it might prove useful to someone.

I have an older AV receiver, a Kenwood VR-7070, and experienced audio dropouts on a regular basis. Every time the audio would drop out, the receiver would say 'Dial Norm Offset xdb'. This was very distracting.

I sat down with all of my equipment manuals looking to see if there were any settings messed up. One audio setting that seemed to be in common with all of my equipment was PCM, so I changed everything to this setting.

I now have no dropouts using PCM. This setting may not be ideal for the discerning home theater enthusiast, but my older receiver seems to handle it better and it sure is less annoying.


----------



## JeffBowser

Along those lines, I recently put in a new AV receiver, and all it does is give me a brief moment of mute. My older receiver would click and clack and change modes for several seconds before it would recover (both on DD through optical)


----------



## brucegrr

2 days now for me and not one audio dropout, not even on ESPN which was the worst for me.

It seems that the hdmi switch "fixed" whatever the problem was between the DVR and the onkyo receiver.

I have no idea of the technical "why" but it is fixed nonetheless.


----------



## JeffBowser

I would think that the equipment is just more forgiving of the issue in the data stream. That's the only logical explanation, given your experience, and mine.



brucegrr said:


> 2 days now for me and not one audio dropout, not even on ESPN which was the worst for me.
> 
> It seems that the hdmi switch "fixed" whatever the problem was between the DVR and the onkyo receiver.
> 
> I have no idea of the technical "why" but it is fixed nonetheless.


----------



## trdrjeff

Speed is the main place I've noticed it. The live Supercross last saturday in particular


----------



## BKC

trdrjeff said:


> Speed is the main place I've noticed it. The live Supercross last saturday in particular


That was awful Sat. night.


----------



## curt8403

I do not know if this is relevant or not, Last night on BYUTV the drop outs were horrendous (and this was in SD, with a good signal strength)


----------



## underlord2

I've been having audio drop outs as well, especially from Chiller and Fox New channel. I have to switch it to a different channel to get audio back.

I have an old h20-700 and an onkyo reciver.


----------



## bdcottle

Audio dropouts during Daytona speed weeks on The Speed Channel about drove me crazy but I got it fixed now. Replaced the HR21-700 with a VIP722 and my dropouts are gone. Along with the 50 series limit, missed recordings and so on. And I can record 3 things at once, as long as one is OTA. And no more commitment.


----------



## gitarzan

bdcottle said:


> Audio dropouts during Daytona speed weeks on The Speed Channel about drove me crazy but I got it fixed now. Replaced the HR21-700 with a VIP722 and my dropouts are gone. Along with the 50 series limit, missed recordings and so on. And I can record 3 things at once, as long as one is OTA. And no more commitment.


How did you get a 722 with no commitment?


----------



## bdcottle

i purchased one from solid signal.


----------



## shendley

I've never noticed audio drops from VODs before, but I did tonight on a download of a Secret Diary of a Call Girl from Showtime. This was episode three of the series - last week's episode.


----------



## underlord2

gitarzan said:


> How did you get a 722 with no commitment?


722 is a Dish network product I believe.

Edit: When I turn my tv on, I get no audio, but I have to switch to a channel to get audio before I can go back to the original channel I had it on sometimes.

These are SD channels.


----------



## bdcottle

underlord2 said:


> 722 is a Dish network product I believe.


Yes, that is my point. I had horrible dropouts until I switched to Dish Network. Same cables, connections AV receiver, TV, HDMI cables, optical cables, same everything except VIP722 instead of HR21-700 and 1000.2 dish instead of Silmline 5. Same channels now don't have dropouts. So I think this is proof that this is a DirecTv problem, not a network problem.


----------



## JeffBowser

Despite the repeated reports from other Dish users, cable TV users, and even OTA users (myself among these) ? It's a multi-variable issue.



bdcottle said:


> Yes, that is my point. I had horrible dropouts until I switched to Dish Network. Same cables, connections AV receiver, TV, HDMI cables, optical cables, same everything except VIP722 instead of HR21-700 and 1000.2 dish instead of Silmline 5. Same channels now don't have dropouts. So I think this is proof that this is a DirecTv problem, not a network problem.


----------



## bdcottle

JeffBowser said:


> Despite the repeated reports from other Dish users, cable TV users, and even OTA users (myself among these) ? It's a multi-variable issue.


Ok you're right. I can't speak for everyone. In my case the problem was a DirecTV problem.


----------



## veryoldschool

bdcottle said:


> Ok you're right. I can't speak for everyone. In my case the problem was a DirecTV problem.


As customers, I'd say we all could say it's "DirecTV's problem". It's just that the cure for it may not be in their equipment [for all of it].


----------



## underlord2

bdcottle said:


> Yes, that is my point. I had horrible dropouts until I switched to Dish Network. Same cables, connections AV receiver, TV, HDMI cables, optical cables, same everything except VIP722 instead of HR21-700 and 1000.2 dish instead of Silmline 5. Same channels now don't have dropouts. So I think this is proof that this is a DirecTv problem, not a network problem.


Yeah, my hr20-700 has seen its better days lately. I wish a Directivo would come out sooner rather than later. The HR10-250 was the best HD reciever i ever had.


----------



## Mike32280

I'm only seeing the issues on recorded programs...not live TV....and I cant repeat the drops in the same spot when i rewind....

I'm currently watching this week's Survivor recorded of WCBS 2 (NY) in HD....I'm getting a ton of drops (to the point its unwatchable) but if I pause quickly, I can get about 2 minutes before the drops start again, and a quick pause will again fix it....is this the same everyone else is experienceing?


----------



## veryoldschool

Mike32280 said:


> I'm only seeing the issues on recorded programs...not live TV....and I cant repeat the drops in the same spot when i rewind....
> 
> I'm currently watching this week's Survivor recorded of WCBS 2 (NY) in HD....I'm getting a ton of drops (to the point its unwatchable) but if I pause quickly, I can get about 2 minutes before the drops start again, and a quick pause will again fix it....is this the same everyone else is experienceing?


It's not what I'm seeing, but as I follow this thread, there seems to be more than "one problem".
It's clear that some channels do have problems, ie: Speed & ESPN
Some are having problem with their AVR and Dolby.
Then there seems to be another group, which are like you, where the dropout doesn't repeat at the same place/time in a recording/buffer.
This last group may be due to a software issue, but may not be getting the attention because of the issues with the first two groups.


----------



## Mike32280

veryoldschool said:


> It's not what I'm seeing, but as I follow this thread, there seems to be more than "one problem".
> It's clear that some channels do have problems, ie: Speed & ESPN
> Some are having problem with their AVR and Dolby.
> Then there seems to be another group, which are like you, where the dropout doesn't repeat at the same place/time in a recording/buffer.
> This last group may be due to a software issue, but may not be getting the attention because of the issues with the first two groups.


Thanks VOS...short of getting a new box, is there anyway for my to verify its a software issue and not a hardware issue on my end?


----------



## shedberg

Mine have actually decreased since the latest software upgrade - although I still get some.


----------



## veryoldschool

Mike32280 said:


> Thanks VOS...short of getting a new box, is there anyway for my to verify its a software issue and not a hardware issue on my end?


If it isn't repeating, I'd have to say it isn't hardware.
I would log/post it here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=171264
And also make a point about it not repeating with replay/pausing, etc.
The more explanation you can give, the better it may help DirecTV to get a handle on the problem.
I've seen "things" that don't repeat, but this is mostly with using MRV, though I did have a very bad HBO program, last weekend, that was mixed. Some replays didn't repeat, yet others would. This is the first time I've had both, so "I guess" sometimes the signal can be so bad that it can temporarily kick the hardware/software out of sync.


----------



## endeavor

Mike32280 said:


> I'm only seeing the issues on recorded programs...not live TV....and I cant repeat the drops in the same spot when i rewind....


For me 8% of the time I can rewind and the audio dropout will Not be there, but 92% of the time it will be there; For me it happens on all the major channels with slight variations for each.

Besides that issue, there have been lots and lots and lots of extra audio/video with pixelations pauses too for the last six months. which is really beyond annoying lately.


----------



## swans

They were on Spike TV during the afternoon CSI between 5-6pm.


----------



## Maleman

I am getting quite frustrated with the audio drop-outs which appear on almost every show or event I watch.

Is there any steps I can take to try to correct this? I have emailed Direct and got the canned response back. I know this same issue happened with my previous provider as well.

Is there a firmware update coming soon? And can I go back to the previous firmware as I had little to NO issues with audio.

Thanks


----------



## veryoldschool

Maleman said:


> I am getting quite frustrated with the audio drop-outs which appear on almost every show or event I watch.
> 
> Is there any steps I can take to try to correct this? I have emailed Direct and got the canned response back. I know this same issue happened with my previous provider as well.
> 
> Is there a firmware update coming soon? And can I go back to the previous firmware as I had little to NO issues with audio.
> 
> Thanks


Right now about the only thing is to try turning Dolby off and see if it helps.
I'm having the same problem with my local NBC [KCRA] and it is nothing to do with firmware on our end.


----------



## Maleman

veryoldschool said:


> Right now about the only thing is to try turning Dolby off and see if it helps.
> I'm having the same problem with my local NBC [KCRA] and it is nothing to do with firmware on our end.


Okie dokies -thank u. I will try that.


----------



## BKC

Maleman said:


> I am getting quite frustrated with the audio drop-outs which appear on almost every show or event I watch.
> 
> Is there any steps I can take to try to correct this? I have emailed Direct and got the canned response back. I know this same issue happened with my previous provider as well.
> 
> Is there a firmware update coming soon? And can I go back to the previous firmware as I had little to NO issues with audio.
> 
> Thanks


Do you know if you got the new update that started a couple days ago yet?


----------



## Maleman

BKC said:


> Do you know if you got the new update that started a couple days ago yet?


I have 0x395 currently.


----------



## gquiring

I am starting to think D* is just jerking us around. I am still getting drops on all national channels consistently. My locals have an occasional drop but nothing like the nationals. I am also starting to get those long black screens (5-10 seconds) of nothing. I saw that mentioned somewhere on this forum. 

I was very disappointed with Tivo's announcement this week. I was planning on switching to FIOS and get a Tivo. Now I don't know what to do. They still don't support two way communications with the M cable card so that's a waste.


----------



## BKC

Maleman said:


> I have 0x395 currently.


Cool, that means you don't have the new one yet. If what they told me is true there may be a fix in the software update they are doing now.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> Cool, that means you don't have the new one yet. If what they told me is true there may be a fix in the software update they are doing now.


I've got the newer version and at least my local NBC, is NO different.


----------



## dbrowning

New member here but a long time visitor. I have the h23-600 receiver and have been back with dtv for just over a month. I previously was with dish for the past year. My opinion is it is the equipment. I never had one audio drop out with dish and watched pretty much the same shows. It is on quite a few channels on mine not just a couple. It does it with optical or just the hdmi to my t.v. Just venting here a little, because I think the receiver isn't a very good piece of equipment because I have a few more problems besides the audio.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> I've got the newer version and at least my local NBC, is NO different.


So do I and my Speed Channel is a *LOT* different. If it stays better is the question......


----------



## gitarzan

I switched to Insight cable a few weeks back after putting my DirecTV in suspend mode because of this problem. So far no audio issues with Insight. My Motorola HD DVR pretty much sucks but at least has a fast guide. If the cablecard tuners start coming out in a few weeks for Windows 7 that will be my permanent solution for a while.


----------



## sigma1914

I hardly see any dropouts until tonight. For the first time in years, I recorded off the MPEG2 version of HBO...I usually record the MPEG4 version...dropouts were unreal! I'm glad I never record OTA & MPEG2.


----------



## lkatzeff

The latest update seems to fix the audio drops for now. Can anybody else confirm this.


----------



## veryoldschool

lkatzeff said:


> The latest update seems to fix the audio drops for now. Can anybody else confirm this.


Maybe this has improved it for some, but I've been having issues with my local NBC and haven't seen any change.
As I've posted in this thread before, most of these issues aren't in our receivers, so I don't really know how an update on our end will change anything.
If it's working better for anyone... great.


----------



## BKC

lkatzeff said:


> The latest update seems to fix the audio drops for now. Can anybody else confirm this.


It seems to be a lot better but not 100% fixed. My OTA local running through the HR20-100 is better with this software too. If I watched it not running through the receiver it had no dropouts but going through the receiver it did. It seems they are almost back to where they were 4 months ago. lol


----------



## curt8403

BKC said:


> It seems to be a lot better but not 100% fixed. My OTA local running through the HR20-100 is better with this software too. If I watched it not running through the receiver it had no dropouts but going through the receiver it did. It seems they are almost back to where they were 4 months ago. lol


 you are lucky, I am still having issues, and the latest software reminds me of HR Pufnstuff


----------



## BKC

curt8403 said:


> you are lucky, I am still having issues, and the latest software reminds me of HR Pufnstuff


Are you talking the stuff just released in the past few days or the stuff from a month or so ago? I'm still pretty gun shy waiting for it to return so please tell me you didn't get an update lately.... :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> It seems to be a lot better but not 100% fixed. My OTA local running through the HR20-100 is better with this software too.* If I watched it not running through the receiver it had no dropouts but going through the receiver it did.* It seems they are almost back to where they were 4 months ago. lol


This isn't what I've been having, so maybe there is a software improvement for MPEG-2 OTA.


----------



## Maleman

curt8403 said:


> you are lucky, I am still having issues, and the latest software reminds me of HR Pufnstuff


OMG almost forgot about HR Puffnstuf lol, i am going to try and find it in torrents.  I am using STEREO now and haven't had drop-outs like I had with Dolby and after the last release. They obviously messed things up because my channels were fine before the last update and the networks suddenly didn't screw their feeds up and suddenly my stereo receiver didn't break down either.

Its clearly a Direct tv issue.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> This isn't what I've been having, so maybe there is a software improvement for MPEG-2 OTA.


The software helped with all the HD channels, Speed, HGTV, National Geo. and many others. The OTA was just a bonus for me....


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> The software helped with all the HD channels,* Speed*, HGTV,* National Geo*. and many others. The OTA was just a bonus for me....


With the races on Fox lately, I haven't watched much speed, and the few times I watch National Geo, they weren't anywhere as bad as a bad day on speed was.
With the F1 being on speed this weekend, I'll have several hours to see how speed is. Last year's F1 had a fair amount [long before this or the past update].
If yours are better... great, but it's going to take me a while to sign on to "the fix", since I've had problems with this for almost two years.


----------



## leprechaunshawn

BKC said:


> The software helped with all the HD channels, Speed, HGTV, National Geo. and many others. The OTA was just a bonus for me....


I'm still having an issue with the HD nationals, HGTV especially. Never had a problem with my locals. I get Milwaukee, WI locals.


----------



## BKC

leprechaunshawn said:


> I'm still having an issue with the HD nationals, HGTV especially. Never had a problem with my locals. I get Milwaukee, WI locals.


Did you get the software update yet? Don't get me wrong, it's not perfect by any means but it's way better for me. I just hope it lasts and they continue to work on it.


----------



## curt8403

BKC said:


> Are you talking the stuff just released in the past few days or the stuff from a month or so ago? I'm still pretty gun shy waiting for it to return so please tell me you didn't get an update lately.... :lol:


you should know that I am having issues on a series of old SD rcvrs. certain semi local channels which are sent to Directv as HD and downrezzed by Directv for the SD market


----------



## leprechaunshawn

Which update? My last software update was probably about a month ago. It was the one that included all the new guide information and smart search.


----------



## lkatzeff

The latest update that seems to fix some audio drops problem is 0x03A8. Not everybody got it yet.


----------



## BKC

lkatzeff said:


> The latest update that seems to fix some audio drops problem is 0x03A8. Not everybody got it yet.


----------



## Maleman

Ugh! I got home today with the new firmware update. Turned on ESPNnewsHD and 3 audio dropouts in 3-5 minutes  Back to 2.1 sound I guess.


----------



## leprechaunshawn

I got the newest software update at 12:26 this morning. Haven't had a chance to check it out yet though.

Are there release notes available anywhere that explain what this update was supposed to do?


----------



## veryoldschool

leprechaunshawn said:


> I got the newest software update at 12:26 this morning. Haven't had a chance to check it out yet though.
> 
> Are there release notes available anywhere that explain what this update was supposed to do?


Look at the top of this forum: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112


----------



## hyde76

The latest firmware, 0x03A8, does not fix the audio drop issue. It's gotten progressively worse with the last few updates. My HR20-700, which I love, had drops every 2 - 5 minutes during American Idol, the office, Survivor, Food Tech on the History Channel and my local PBS LA28. My wife made me turn off the stereo, which is just no fun but how could I protest? The problem is getting worse, not better.


----------



## HDbruce

Received the subject update early Tuesday morning 3/9. We've watched 9 hours of recorded NBC, ABC and Fox since then on our HR20-100 without an audio/video breakup (will watch CBS this evening). This is the first time we've had clean OTA recordings since the problem started with the September, 2009 firmware release. Previously we had anywhere from 2 to 15 breakups per hour on these same OTA channels (with fewer on satellite channels). Perhaps they finally got it right!


----------



## veryoldschool

HDbruce said:


> Received the subject update early Tuesday morning 3/9. We've watched 9 hours of recorded NBC, ABC and Fox since then on our HR20-100 without an audio/video breakup (will watch CBS this evening). This is the first time we've had clean OTA recordings since the problem started with the September, 2009 firmware release. Previously we had anywhere from 2 to 15 breakups per hour on these same OTA channels (with fewer on satellite channels). Perhaps they finally got it right!


OTA maybe be fixed with this release, but SAT feeds may not, since I've still had some with this release.


----------



## JeffBowser

Post 521 and 522 are complete opposite conclusions. Therefore, I conclude that we can't conclude jack from this last update.


----------



## BKC

JeffBowser said:


> Post 521 and 522 are complete opposite conclusions. Therefore, I conclude that we can't conclude jack from this last update.


Looks that way! :lol:

Mine is still better than it has been since the fall update that caused it all. It's not fixed but it's better. Speed channel is watchable now anyway with maybe an average of four or five dropouts an hour.


----------



## gquiring

I got the update recently. I have been watching TNT and Spike most of the afternoon. So far only one dropout on TNT. So far it's definitely better but not perfect. I need to test the CW, that is my worst channel, it's become a nightmare to watch (actually listen) lately.


----------



## hyde76

Well, watching local PBS-HD LA28HD, which does broadcast a 2.1 DD signal, not 5.1, the audio dropouts are still there and they suck. I've started holding my finger on the jump back button on the remote because when I hear a drop out I jump back and the replay is always fine but a minute later, another drop. So, tonight I finally turned off Dolby Digital on the receiver. It made no change on previously recorded material but we'll see on new recordings how they fare. I'm not optimistic. Oh, and all my recordings are on the SAT, not over the air.


----------



## LoveDoc143

This is kinda cool. I mean, this has been going on since .. what.. October now and still having these audio dropouts.

Tonight, for kicks, I was studying the audio dropouts on my local NBC station (because, for some reason, it drops out more then anything else on any other channel). Anyway, it would go from Dolby Digital to Dolby Pro Logic II for one second, then back to Digital. That one second of audio switch nets me about two seconds of audio blackout. What I did was change the audio on the HD-DVR from Digital "On" to Digital "Off" and sucked up watching NBC in 2.1 channel. Not a single dropout for two solid hours of watching both playback and live feed. I switched it back to Digital "On" and bam - three audio drop-outs in less than two minutes.

Sigh ... So a choice when watching certain channels ... lower fidelity or annoying audio dropouts (sometimes so often that the channel is unwatchable).

Awesome.


----------



## betterdan

I was also watching NBC tonight (Celebrity Apprentice) with DD enabled on my HR20-700. I was getting annoying as hell audio dropouts every couple minutes so I decided to turn DD off. I still got the same dropouts every couple minutes although they were slightly shorter in length.


----------



## Champcar#1

Dropouts were better on Formula 1 race on Speed.
Still there but better. They were also there on the DVR playback.


----------



## veryoldschool

Champcar#1 said:


> Dropouts were better on Formula 1 race on Speed.
> Still there but better. They were also there on the DVR playback.


I watched the race and would guess every dropout was when the cars lost LOS for a sec while they went under something.


----------



## Spoffo

By far the most common cause of these dropout problems is incompatibility between something in the digital audio stream and the particular Dolby decoder in your TV set or audio receiver. Both of these are pretty much out of DirecTV's control. 

There are various flags and such that are used to signal events in the Dolby stream. Various decoder chips in different brands and models of receivers and TVs don't cope as well with some of these as others. Also, some broadcasters don't have their encoder set up right, so that it's sending some of these flags when it shouldn't.

In writing up your problems here, the critical piece of information is what your audio hookup is: e.g. "HDMI from a H20 to a Samsung XXXX," or "Optical audio from an HR20-700 to a Onkyo XXX receiver." Because I'll promise you there are other people watching the same signal you are who are not experiencing any dropouts at all. (I did for a while last summer on Showtime, but enough people complained that they fixed whatever the problem was that was affecting my particular setup.)

If a station was broadcasting dropouts that affected everyone viewing, their own monitoring would pick it up right away, and their engineers would be all over it.

If you are experiencing constant dropouts on a particular station, write to them. And explain the issue, including the specifics of the equipment you're experiencing the problem on.

The one sure-fire way to not have dropouts is to use the analog connection from your DirecTv receiver (remember, those old-fashioned red and white plugs?) to your audio receiver or TV. If you experience dropouts on that setup, THEN you have a real beef with DirecTv, and should be able to get their attention, because it's their Dolby decoder that is messing up.


----------



## taz291819

I've noticed audio dropouts on several channels the past week, never had this problem before. NY NBC (DNS), the Travel Channel, and National Geographic HD. Optical out to Kenwood receiver.


----------



## daystrom

Spoffo said:


> By far the most common cause of these dropout problems is incompatibility between something in the digital audio stream and the particular Dolby decoder in your TV set or audio receiver. Both of these are pretty much out of DirecTV's control.


WELL PUT!!

I had a different type of problem with audio from various sources that followed my AV equipment from Time Warner to DirecTV.

Replacing my AVR with an Onkyo TX-SR707 fixed all my issues and I am all  now!


----------



## BKC

Champcar#1 said:


> Dropouts were better on Formula 1 race on Speed.
> Still there but better. They were also there on the DVR playback.


Same thing I noticed too, better but still a problem. Same with the Supercross on Sat. night, still there but better. The NHRA on espn 2 was kind of bad but not as bad as I've seen it.

The software helped but they still have a ways to go on mine.


----------



## betterdan

I tried turning DD off last night and watched some Fox News and Speed channel and didn't notice any drop outs. As soon as I enabled DD again the drop outs came back immediately.


----------



## Rikinky

Im glad I read this thread I thought for a minute my reciever was screwing up or my audio inputs. Anyone know if D* can or will resolve this thru a software update or whatever? I have the HR23/700


----------



## iainleaver

Spoffo said:


> By far the most common cause of these dropout problems is incompatibility between something in the digital audio stream and the particular Dolby decoder in your TV set or audio receiver. Both of these are pretty much out of DirecTV's control.
> 
> There are various flags and such that are used to signal events in the Dolby stream. Various decoder chips in different brands and models of receivers and TVs don't cope as well with some of these as others. Also, some broadcasters don't have their encoder set up right, so that it's sending some of these flags when it shouldn't.
> 
> In writing up your problems here, the critical piece of information is what your audio hookup is: e.g. "HDMI from a H20 to a Samsung XXXX," or "Optical audio from an HR20-700 to a Onkyo XXX receiver." Because I'll promise you there are other people watching the same signal you are who are not experiencing any dropouts at all. (I did for a while last summer on Showtime, but enough people complained that they fixed whatever the problem was that was affecting my particular setup.)
> 
> If a station was broadcasting dropouts that affected everyone viewing, their own monitoring would pick it up right away, and their engineers would be all over it.
> 
> If you are experiencing constant dropouts on a particular station, write to them. And explain the issue, including the specifics of the equipment you're experiencing the problem on.
> 
> The one sure-fire way to not have dropouts is to use the analog connection from your DirecTv receiver (remember, those old-fashioned red and white plugs?) to your audio receiver or TV. If you experience dropouts on that setup, THEN you have a real beef with DirecTv, and should be able to get their attention, because it's their Dolby decoder that is messing up.


I have been lurking on these boards for some time - I have learned a lot about Directv!

I have to wade in on this issue though - it is frustrating the heck out of us in our house!

I have the issue that is being discussed - it is not because my AV receiver is not compatible with Directv!

For example, last night my HR20/700 recorded the first episode of 'The Pacific' on the east coast HD HBO feed at 6pm local time (west coast)

When we started watching it (at just after 9 - important later!) it was unwatchable due to audio drop outs - the sound goes off (sometimes the video freezes for an instant too) and the AV receiver looses DD. The sound comes back between 1 and about 10 seconds later for a short period then drops out again.

Pausing the DVR seems to fix the longer pauses and improves the rate of drop out for a minute or so - basically it is unwatchable

Luckily I noticed it was just after 9 and switched to watching the live west coast feed - no issues at all

I have noticed that this seems (can't swear) that this only affects HD shows - or maybe it just shows with DD, but it doesn't happen all the time - it also seems worse if we are recording 2 shows and watching one

Sorry about the long post, but I am really getting fed up with this issue - it appeared around the time of the software update in October - coincidence ? maybe, but i think not

Iain


----------



## gquiring

Spoffo said:


> By far the most common cause of these dropout problems is incompatibility between something in the digital audio stream and the particular Dolby decoder in your TV set or audio receiver. Both of these are pretty much out of DirecTV's control.


That might be true but there was a huge surge in audio dropouts after DirecTV released an update late October 2009. Prior to the update I never had any audio dropouts. Clearly DirecTV caused the problem. Also I can disable my 5.1 via the TOS cable to my Yamaha receiver and use the audio via my HDMI to my Panasonic TV and instead of getting a dropout I get garbage. So in either case the audio is messed up. Also my locals are fine but every national channel has dropouts.


----------



## veryoldschool

iainleaver said:


> I have been lurking on these boards for some time - I have learned a lot about Directv!
> 
> I have to wade in on this issue though - it is frustrating the heck out of us in our house!
> 
> I have the issue that is being discussed - it is not because my AV receiver is not compatible with Directv!
> 
> For example, last night my HR20/700 recorded the first episode of 'The Pacific' on the east coast HD HBO feed at 6pm local time (west coast)
> 
> When we started watching it (at just after 9 - important later!) it was unwatchable due to audio drop outs - the sound goes off (sometimes the video freezes for an instant too) and the AV receiver looses DD. The sound comes back between 1 and about 10 seconds later for a short period then drops out again.
> 
> Pausing the DVR seems to fix the longer pauses and improves the rate of drop out for a minute or so - basically it is unwatchable
> 
> Luckily I noticed it was just after 9 and switched to watching the live west coast feed - no issues at all
> 
> I have noticed that this seems (can't swear) that this only affects HD shows - or maybe it just shows with DD, but it doesn't happen all the time - it also seems worse if we are recording 2 shows and watching one
> 
> Sorry about the long post, but I am really getting fed up with this issue - it appeared around the time of the software update in October - coincidence ? maybe, but i think not
> 
> Iain


Watched the same show from the early feed. I wasn't using my AVR, so it was simply HDMI to my Sony with DD on. Didn't have/see these problems.
The HR20s are getting a bit long in the tooth, so I've had to run some disk scans in the last year.
The best one I've found is to reboot and hold down the record & down arrow buttons on the front panel, until the record light comes on. This scan took about 2.5 hours to complete
When you have the time, it might be worth a try. I didn't lose any recording or settings, so other than the time it took, there was nothing lost.
You're either going to get an error code for a bad disk, or it should complete the test and "might" help.


----------



## iainleaver

Thanks - i'll give that a try when I get the chance


----------



## brucegrr

gquiring said:


> That might be true but there was a huge surge in audio dropouts after DirecTV released an update late October 2009. Prior to the update I never had any audio dropouts. Clearly DirecTV caused the problem. Also I can disable my 5.1 via the TOS cable to my Yamaha receiver and use the audio via my HDMI to my Panasonic TV and instead of getting a dropout I get garbage. So in either case the audio is messed up. Also my locals are fine but every national channel has dropouts.


Quite correct. I remember a time when this problem did not exist. Nothing changed on my end. Nothing. What changed? Software updates? Something on Directv's end?

This is not an end-user caused problem.

One commenter suggested going back to RCA connections? Really. Is this what this has come down to, that we have to have an analog connection to get good audio?

Everything in my entertainment system has a digital connection. _*Directv the satellite LEADER? Connected via analog RCA connectors.*_ (that would make for a good advertisement for Dish)

This remains Directv's problem


----------



## LoveDoc143

Spoffo said:


> By far the most common cause of these dropout problems is incompatibility between something in the digital audio stream and the particular Dolby decoder in your TV set or audio receiver. Both of these are pretty much out of DirecTV's control.


... and the perfect response already stated ...



gquiring said:


> That might be true but there was a huge surge in audio dropouts after DirecTV released an update late October 2009. Prior to the update I never had any audio dropouts. Clearly DirecTV caused the problem. Also I can disable my 5.1 via the TOS cable to my Yamaha receiver and use the audio via my HDMI to my Panasonic TV and instead of getting a dropout I get garbage. So in either case the audio is messed up. Also my locals are fine but every national channel has dropouts.


Different audio receivers and the like are, of course, possible issues. The only problem in this case is, that before the October update, I never had a single audio drop out on *ANY* channel. Once that update came in ... forget it. That puts it out of the "it's your audio hardware" and into "what was changed in that update to break existing audio functionality?".

We can go back and forth on this, but looking at the thread, how many people can pinpoint the start of their problems to the October update and everything that comes along with it ... clearly, it's not the issue you wanted it to be. It's a DirecTV issue plain and simple. Maybe a codec was updated somewhere along the line to bring things more current. Hey - that's fine .. if they're saying my stuff is outdated (which, is isn't by any means), at the very least, that's a response to the issue. It's been .. what.. half a year now and not a single word from anybody official regarding the problem. We have some people saying, "Techs know nothing about it" .. just for somebody else to turn around and say, "management knows and is fixing it right now".

Something is going on, things aren't being changed and responses from official sources (not "Bob's cousin's uncle's friends' sister's girl-friends brother said it's getting fixed" tripe).


----------



## hyde76

I'm running the HD Self Check now. We'll see what happens. Since I last posted I recorded a few things with the DD turned off to see what the difference might be. Results, nothing. The DD signal is still recorded though with DD turned off, the JVC stereo receiver did not have to switch from Dolby Digital to Surround Off so I did not hear the clicking sounds that I've gotten used to hearing. Watched the Apprentice from LA4 and the drop outs were fast and furious. After about 1/2 way I turned DD back on to enjoy (well, not really but that's another thread) the remainder in glorious surround sound. I guess I'll see what happens after the self check.


----------



## hdtvluvr

veryoldschool said:


> The best one I've found is to reboot and hold down the record & down arrow buttons on the front panel, until the record light comes on. This scan took about 2.5 hours to complete


Which scan is this in the Hard Drive Utilities scans?


----------



## daystrom

If this were a DirecTV issue why wouldn't we all have the same issue? I have an HR20-700 hooked to an Onkyo AVR via HDMI. Video and audio are being fed through the HDMI cable and the STB is always set for D.D.

I never have audio drop outs and I watch all the same channels that folks here complain about.

I have the same national software release that everyone else has too. Could it be different hardware revisions on the STB causing this?

All I know is the audio problem I was having has been corrected by upgrading my AVR. You can hear a sample of my problem in this post: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2357102#post2357102


----------



## BKC

Spoffo obviously didn't read the thread before he posted. 

It's a DTV issue and they know it. The last software update helped some of us but it isn't totally fixed yet. It will soon be five months......


----------



## gquiring

BKC said:


> Spoffo obviously didn't read the thread before he posted.
> 
> It's a DTV issue and they know it. The last software update helped some of us but it isn't totally fixed yet. It will soon be five months......


The update definitely improved the issue for me. At the current state it's not going to drive me silly like it did for the past few months.


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvluvr said:


> Which scan is this in the Hard Drive Utilities scans?


This seems to be a different scan than in the utilities menu.
The reboot scan [front panel record & down arrow] doesn't have a label, like those in the utilities menu.
The long tests in the menu [smart & surface] took 90 mins each for me. The boot scan, took an hour longer, which suggests it's doing something more.


----------



## betterdan

How do you get to the utilities menu?


----------



## hdtvluvr

betterdan said:


> How do you get to the utilities menu?


Reboot the receiver and as soon as the blue lights come on press Record and Select on the DVR at the same time (not the remote) until the diagnostic screen comes up.


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvluvr said:


> Reboot the receiver and as soon as the blue lights come on press Record and Select on the DVR at the same time (not the remote) until the diagnostic screen comes up.


That would send you straight into the longest disk scan.
Rebooting and pressing "select" at the "receiver running self test" will get you into the menu, where you can select which tests along with the advanced menu.


----------



## hdtvluvr

I did that this morning and I got to the utilities menu. Your post above says to use Record and Down Arrow to get to the longest (boot) scan. So Record/Select and Record/Down Arrow takes one to the same place?


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvluvr said:


> I did that this morning and I got to the utilities menu. Your post above says to use Record and Down Arrow to get to the longest (boot) scan. So Record/Select and Record/Down Arrow takes one to the same place?


"Select" [only] takes you to the menu, during the "running receiver self test" screen.

Pressing and holding record + down arrow, starts a different disk scan [without a menu] at the same self test screen and the record light comes on.


----------



## betterdan

So does the disk scan actually repair any errors on the disk it finds or does it just report errors?
Sorry for all the questions. I just don't want to spend hours with it scanning for it to not really do anything that could help.
I am planning on running it tonight at 12 am while I sleep then check it around 4:30 am when I get up.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> So does the disk scan actually repair any errors on the disk it finds or does it just report errors?
> Sorry for all the questions. I just don't want to spend hours with it scanning for it to not really do anything that could help.
> I am planning on running it tonight at 12 am while I sleep then check it around 4:30 am when I get up.


"Well" it doesn't come back and say "I fixed ....".
With the longest scan [the record + down arrow] what you will see is the progress bar go back and forth about three times before it moves on to the next block/sector. This doesn't happen with the other scans.
Exactly what this is doing would be anybody's guess, but it does seem as if it's remapping/rechecking the blocks.
This is the scan that takes an hour longer than the other long scans. My 300 GB takes 90 mins for the long scans and 2.5 hrs for this scan. If your drive is larger, then it will take proportionally longer. There have been some that this scan has gone on for many hours longer and not completed, which would also suggest this scan is working hard to correct faults.


----------



## betterdan

I just have the stock drive in my HR20-700.
I just rebooted and hit the select button to get into the utilities menu. Ran the Smart Short test and it ran quickly and passed. Right now it's running the Smart long test but I may stop it and run the long 2.5 hour one you suggested.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> I just have the stock drive in my HR20-700.
> I just rebooted and hit the select button to get into the utilities menu. Ran the Smart Short test and it ran quickly and passed. Right now it's running the Smart long test but I may stop it and run the long 2.5 hour one you suggested.


I did those and then much later was trying to reformat, when I found you no longer can and found the other scan.
After doing it, I feel it is a much better scan.


----------



## betterdan

Alright I just cancelled it and started the Record + Down Arrow scan. Thanks for the info. 
I'll let you know if it helped anything. I get bad audio drop outs mainly on my local NBC but also on Speed HD, FOX News HD, TNT HD etc. Also the guide and menus are not extremely slow but still slower than it used to be. Also the drive is making some rather loud noises once in a while.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> Alright I just cancelled it and started the Record + Down Arrow scan. Thanks for the info.
> I'll let you know if it helped anything. I get bad audio drop outs mainly on my local NBC but also on Speed HD, FOX News HD, TNT HD etc. Also the guide and menus are not extremely slow but still slower than it used to be. Also the drive is making some rather loud noises once in a while.


If you have the audio problems with live TV, then this I don't think will help much.
Loud noises may improve. One of the reasons I did this was for the head chattering, which did seem to help, but not completely eliminate.
"If anything" you'll know it isn't the disk [or you'll get an error code/message].


----------



## mjbvideo

Spoffo said:


> The one sure-fire way to not have dropouts is to use the analog connection from your DirecTv receiver (remember, those old-fashioned red and white plugs?) to your audio receiver or TV. If you experience dropouts on that setup, THEN you have a real beef with DirecTv, and should be able to get their attention, because it's their Dolby decoder that is messing up.


This guy is joking, right? This would have been a good posting on April Fools Day. 
Anyway, like most people my audio dropouts began after one of the NR's in 2009. I include the brrriips in the audio dropout category. I also am PO'd that DirecTv has some amateurs encoding their commercial inserts because I still am getting occassional glass breaking, super distorted, super loud audio. Most of their inserts are OK though.
It boggles my mind that such a technical company can have so many bugs that never seem to get fixed. Do they even have a Quality Assurance group? If so, then I bet they report to the marketing department...in other words they don't have any power in the organization.


----------



## betterdan

Well I ran the disk scan veryoldschool recommended but I fell asleep after 30 minutes of it running (it was at 32%). When I woke up it was finished and the HR20 was back up and running so I didn't get to see any error messages if they did show but I am guessing there were none since the box was back up. 
It may be just a coincidence but I tuned to a couple of the channels I was having drop outs problems with (NBC, Speed HD) and so far I haven't heard any drop outs. I am keeping my fingers crossed but I'll test it more tonight.

Oh yea, it sure didn't help the speed. It is taking 5 seconds to bring the guide up when pressing the button but I can live with that, the audio dropouts are the most annoying thing. last night watching The Biggest Loser I was getting audio dropouts every couple minutes watching it on live tv.


----------



## Spoffo

iainleaver said:


> For example, last night my HR20/700 recorded the first episode of 'The Pacific' on the east coast HD HBO feed at 6pm local time (west coast)
> 
> When we started watching it (at just after 9 - important later!) it was unwatchable due to audio drop outs - the sound goes off (sometimes the video freezes for an instant too) and the AV receiver looses DD. The sound comes back between 1 and about 10 seconds later for a short period then drops out again.
> 
> Pausing the DVR seems to fix the longer pauses and improves the rate of drop out for a minute or so - basically it is unwatchable
> 
> Luckily I noticed it was just after 9 and switched to watching the live west coast feed - no issues at all


Not to pick a fight, but just to illustrate the quirky nature of this problem, I recorded the exact same transmission - the debut of "The PACIFIC" off HBO East HD Sunday night - on my HR20-700 (2006 vintage - running the national firmware that was rolled out a few weeks ago) It played back (audio via optical to my Onkyo 804 receiver) just perfectly. In fact, I haven't noticed a single audio dropout since a bunch on my local NBC HD back during the Olympics.

This isn't about boasting. It's that my experience clearly represents the majority of D's HD-DVR customers. I don't doubt that some people are having a terrible time with dropouts and "Brrrrps" and that it seems to date to the firmware update back around October. But if it isn't a universal problem, what's called for is some systematic trouble-shooting to try to figure out why you are having this problem and other people with identical equipment aren't. That kind of data will help you and the folks at D solve this.

My widely-ridiculed idea of using analog audio was offered in this spirit, as a potential diagnostic tool to help pin down whether in fact this this is definitely a Dolby decoding issue. Also, I was offering it as a work-around. If I were having terrible dropouts, and there was a program I wanted to watch tonight, I'd rather watch it with a clean stereo track than have the experience ruined by dropouts.

That said, the fact that this traces to the firmware upgrade in October is a big clue: that was the first national release that included MRV. AND, these dropout symptoms are awfully familiar to those of us who've been working with MRV for a while. Which suggests some possible diagnostic steps, all of them only educated guesses but worth trying:

#1 - Check your signal strength. If you're under 75 on any transponders, get your dish tweaked. Yes, the dropouts aren't at all what you're used to seeing from marginal signal strength, but they ARE very similar to what you see in MRV playback with a marginal network connection.

#2 - Do you have MRV enabled on any of your receivers? If so try turning it off and see if anything changes. Conversely, if you don't, try turning MRV on and see if anything changes.

#3 - How much headroom do you have on your hard disk? If it's more than 80% full, that might be the cause. Back in the days before DRVs, some of us used the old Panasonic Hard disk-equipped DVD recorders for time shifting, and if the disk got close to full, all sorts of bad stuff, including seemingly random dropouts, would occur. So, if you're 85% or 90% full, try deleting a bunch of programs and see if that helps.

#4 - Some folks have reported situations where a recording was playing back with dropouts, but the live feed of the same program wasn't. It would really help if lots of people did some systematic testing of this idea, and it would be important to test this on the exact same feed. If you can confirm that the problem consistently applies only to recordings and not live feeds, that would be a giant clue (possibly related to the MRV idea.)

Think like you're chasing a computer bug, and you'll probably come up with other systematic ways to try to generate data points. For example, if you have multiple ways to decode dolby (e.g. HDMI to receiver, HDMI to TV set, Optical to receiver, etc) switch around between them during a single program and see if there's a difference. Likewise, if you have access to multiple HDMI cables, try switching them around. Audio dropouts could be a symptom of HDMI handshake issues from a poor cable.

The more repeatable data you can generate the faster the people at D can find a solution.


----------



## veryoldschool

Spoffo said:


> Not to pick a fight, but just to illustrate the quirky nature of this problem...


Not to pick one with you either "but" I think you've mixed up some of the features/releases.
October was the second with doubleplay, which is where a lot of the hard drive thrashing seemed to have come, while only in the past month's releases has MRV been added.
While the glitches in the first MRV release [0395] can seem to be like these problems, from what I've seen, the two are not the same.
There may be multiple issues/causes that the user simply "dump" into the same issue [audio dropouts], but the cause/source of these are different.


----------



## betterdan

Spoffo said:


> #1 - Check your signal strength. If you're under 75 on any transponders, get your dish tweaked. Yes, the dropouts aren't at all what you're used to seeing from marginal signal strength, but they ARE very similar to what you see in MRV playback with a marginal network connection.


All signals are 86 and above, most are in the mid 90s


Spoffo said:


> #2 - Do you have MRV enabled on any of your receivers? If so try turning it off and see if anything changes. Conversely, if you don't, try turning MRV on and see if anything changes.


No MRV enabled, never tried MRV on


Spoffo said:


> #3 - How much headroom do you have on your hard disk? If it's more than 80% full, that might be the cause. Back in the days before DRVs, some of us used the old Panasonic Hard disk-equipped DVD recorders for time shifting, and if the disk got close to full, all sorts of bad stuff, including seemingly random dropouts, would occur. So, if you're 85% or 90% full, try deleting a bunch of programs and see if that helps.


hard disk is 46% full right now


Spoffo said:


> #4 - Some folks have reported situations where a recording was playing back with dropouts, but the live feed of the same program wasn't. It would really help if lots of people did some systematic testing of this idea, and it would be important to test this on the exact same feed. If you can confirm that the problem consistently applies only to recordings and not live feeds, that would be a giant clue (possibly related to the MRV idea.)


all my audio dropouts are live and recorded. Only on HD channels.


Spoffo said:


> Think like you're chasing a computer bug, and you'll probably come up with other systematic ways to try to generate data points. For example, if you have multiple ways to decode dolby (e.g. HDMI to receiver, HDMI to TV set, Optical to receiver, etc) switch around between them during a single program and see if there's a difference. Likewise, if you have access to multiple HDMI cables, try switching them around. Audio dropouts could be a symptom of HDMI handshake issues from a poor cable.
> 
> The more repeatable data you can generate the faster the people at D can find a solution.


I have turned DD off and the audio dropouts stop via optical to my Onkyo receiver. I should try HDMI audio sometime, I just have to get up enough nerve to pull the receiver out and start messing with all the settings on it.


----------



## Maleman

What the heck is MRV enabled/disabled? 

Thanks


----------



## betterdan

Multi Room Viewing. Where you have DVRs networked and can watch a show recorded on one DVR on a different DVR.
My 2 DVRs aren't networked together so I do not have MRV enabled.


----------



## BKC

mjbvideo said:


> This guy is joking, right? This would have been a good posting on April Fools Day.
> Anyway, like most people my audio dropouts began after one of the NR's in 2009. I include the brrriips in the audio dropout category. I also am PO'd that DirecTv has some amateurs encoding their commercial inserts because I still am getting occassional glass breaking, super distorted, super loud audio. Most of their inserts are OK though.
> It boggles my mind that such a technical company can have so many bugs that never seem to get fixed. Do they even have a Quality Assurance group? If so, then I bet they report to the marketing department...in other words they don't have any power in the organization.


----------



## betterdan

Well so far so good after doing the hard drive scan. I watched Fox News for an hour with not 1 audio drop out. I watched Speed HD for about 45 minutes and got 2 audio drop outs which is much better. I got a couple audio drop outs on local NBC HD and then I decided to check it against the OTA NBC HD and no drop outs on the same show with OTA. Watched local NBC HD for about another 45 minutes and not another audio dropout. Much MUCH better. I hope this isn't just a coincidence.
Thanks so much for the info on how to do a disc scan.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> Well so far so good after doing the hard drive scan. I watched Fox News for an hour with not 1 audio drop out. I watched Speed HD for about 45 minutes and got 2 audio drop outs which is much better. I got a couple audio drop outs on local NBC HD and then I decided to check it against the OTA NBC HD and no drop outs on the same show with OTA. Watched local NBC HD for about another 45 minutes and not another audio dropout. Much MUCH better. I hope this isn't just a coincidence.
> Thanks so much for the info on how to do a disc scan.


Hope things work out well for you. The dropouts you have now "may be" from the stations, but you may have removed a whole other layer of them with the disk scan.


----------



## betterdan

Well that's why I checked the same programming via my OTA antenna with NBC. With the OTA antenna I got no audio drop out but NBC HD via Directv I did get a couple. I'm recording 2 HD channels now (CBS HD and NBC HD) via Directv and watching NBC HD which was the worst about audio drop outs before and 22 minutes into the recording with not 1 drop out which is much different than before. I couldn't go more than 3 minutes last night without an audio dropout.

I'll report back again after about a week of testing. It's just weird that the drop outs only affect the audio and not video.


----------



## gquiring

The fact that I don't get dropouts on CBS, NBC, ABC or FOX tells me it's a 100% DirecTV issue. If my equipment were in question it would fail on all channels.


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> The fact that I don't get dropouts on CBS, NBC, ABC or FOX tells me it's a 100% DirecTV issue. If my equipment were in question it would fail on all channels.


You're making a good point, "but" I think what everyone is having are many different problems, some of which are in their receiver/DVR and others aren't which are DirecTV's problems, which I've strongly posted earlier in this thread.
This may be like an onion, where we need to peal the layers away until we get to the core issue that is DirecTV's encoders.


----------



## gitarzan

Simple question. Someone at DirecTV probaby understands this issue much better than anyone posting here. Why can't someone from DirecTV communicate to us that they understand the issues and are working on it or at least provide some explanation as to what is going on? This communicaton could be made through one of the mods if not directly.


----------



## veryoldschool

gitarzan said:


> Simple question. Someone at DirecTV probaby understands this issue much better than anyone posting here. Why can't someone from DirecTV communicate to us that they understand the issues and are working on it or at least provide some explanation as to what is going on? This communicaton could be made through one of the mods if not directly.


I was a go-between for this earlier in this thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=161262


----------



## betterdan

Well after I posted last night, the last 30 minutes of Law and Order on NBC HD that was recording on the DVR had numerous audio dropouts.


----------



## BKC

That's going to happen until DTV fixes the problems they created last fall.......


----------



## Guardian

Audio dropouts when watching recordings on HDNet


----------



## txfeinbergs

So can someone that has zero audio dropouts please post what receiver and brand they use? I am using an Onkyo TX-SR805 7.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver and have the audio dropouts happen once or twice every hour on certain channels i.e. last night while watching Sparticus: Blood and Sand on Starz. I may purchase another receiver to get past this problem as it is annoying.


----------



## canesice

I have the same issue on my sony tv. changing the channel, or invoking the double play clears it.

this is with an R22 in HD mode. Same issue happend before I added the sony HD TV


----------



## Spoffo

txfeinbergs said:


> So can someone that has zero audio dropouts please post what receiver and brand they use?


I'm using an HR20-700 (early vintage - mid/late'06) with sound to a Onkyo 804 receiver. Until recently, I was using optical to the Onkyo, but I recently switched to HDMI.

On either connection, I haven't had any audio dropouts since a few on my NBC-HD LIL during the olympics.

The Onkyo is also vintage '06 and only supports HDMI v1.1. This has led to some total dropouts (audio & video) on upconverted DVDs, but no problems on Direct at any resolution up to 1080i. (My current monitor doesn't handle 1080p, and I doubt the receiver would either.)


----------



## txfeinbergs

Thanks. That would seem to point to it not being my receiver then since our receivers are not very far apart model wise. I have one more test I am going to try. I have two HD DVRs, one in my bedroom and one downstairs. We barely ever watch the one upstairs, but I am going to set it up to record the same shows as my downstairs DVR. If the audio dropouts are noticed on both DVRs at the same point in a program, then I am going to chalk it up to either the DISH itself, or more likely, programming on DirecTVs end. If it doesn't happen on the unit upstairs, then the problem is either with the downstairs DVR or Onkyo.

I don't think the problem is with any of the wiring because on some channels, I get no audio drop-outs for hours (like all of my locals), but on other channels, like Discovery HD, and Starz, I get one or two an hour. If it was wiring, the problem would not be channel specific.


----------



## BKC

You will be chasing this until the end of time unless DTV fixes it.......


----------



## trdrjeff

Will be interesting to see if it is present on the new HR24.


----------



## veryoldschool

trdrjeff said:


> Will be interesting to see if it is present on the new HR24.


It did on the HBO Pacific part 2 this weekend.


----------



## txfeinbergs

Grr! It did it on Part 1 last week, so I guess I am in for more of the same with The Pacific Part 2 then which I have not watched yet.


----------



## hdtvluvr

I didn't have a problem with either episode. Both recorded on an HR20-700.


----------



## daystrom

No problem on Pacific part 1 or 2. 

HR20-700 all HDMI to an Onkyo TX-SR707 (brand new). In fact I rarely have any audio drops using this setup. The AVR will sometimes change audio modes from DD to PL-II and back but it is just a fraction of a second.


----------



## txfeinbergs

Actually, we watched part 2 tonight and there were no audio dropouts surprisingly.


----------



## veryoldschool

What I heard were quite short, but there. I just may be more acute to looking for these, since this along with the briipps have been around so long.


----------



## jackal2001

I noticed 2-3 audio dropouts while watching Life, live on discovery channel hd. I have not noticed this before. I reciently switched my Audio and Video Setup but have not changed anything on my HR21 receiver.

Old setup, No known audio dropouts that I have noticed:
HR21-700 HDMI Out > Panasonic TC-P50V10 Both Audio and Video



New setup, known audio dropouts on live tv from various channels:
Same HR21-700 Fiber Out > Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K Reciver for Audio Only
HDMI Out > Pioneer 101FD Display for Video Only

So could it be the fiber connection on the receivers that are not functioning correctly????

The Panasonic TV moved downstairs and is hooked back up to another identical HR21-700 box. Audio and Video are only run through HDMI. I am going to test again my recording Life on both boxes and see what happens.


----------



## greenelucky

Watching the NBC coverage of the Bruins game on Sunday and I had audio dropouts.


----------



## hyde76

American Idol had numerous, every few minutes, drops last night. Just awful. The show but also the drops. This is not cool.


----------



## vthokies1996

I have an Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver and receive very few drop outs. However, last night I had a very strange problem.

I went to watch American Idol with my daughter. At this point it had been recording for about 40 minutes. I got a picture but had absolutely no sound. Switched channels, still no sound. I noticed that when on an HD channel, the Dolby Digital light which is normally illuminated was not lit. The display read PCM. I hadn't made any changes and I had no problems with watching TV on Monday night. I even tried cycling thru all of the various Sound modes on the receiver.

I verified that it was not the HDMI cable. I received sound thru the receiver for both my XBOX 360 and Blu-Ray player. I also switched the Directv to the HDMI port that the Blu-Ray player was on. Still no sound. I double check the Audio menu on the DVR, which is an HR21-200. It was set to Dolby Digital on. Even tried running the sound using an Optical Audio cable. Still no sound. 

Did a factory reset of the Onkyo receiver. Still no sound. So now I knew it was something with the HR21-200. So finally after Lost finished recording, I was going to sway the DVR with the HR21-100 that I have in the bedroom, but decided to first do a red button reset. 

After the HR21-200 rebooted, the sound came back. Dolby Digital light was on whenever it should be.

Anyone else experience this ever? Any ideas as to the cause? I would have tried the redbutton reset earlier if I hadn't had 2 shows recording.


----------



## lkatzeff

Numerous audio drops watching recorded NCIS and Survivor. I will give Directv another month and if not fixed I will switch to cable.


----------



## gquiring

I actually had a dropout during American Idol but it was during a commercial break - so I consider that a good feature


----------



## BKC

With the talent AI has this year I would rather it was while a few of them are singing. lol


----------



## joed32

I don't watch much network TV but when I record shows on ESPN they always have audio dropouts. Since they're only talk shows I watch them on a 4X3 CRT TV with composite cables and they are still there. Never see any on premium channels on HDMI through the Onkyo 705.


----------



## gquiring

I tried watching Supernatural and later today TNT and was plastered with audio dropouts. I bypassed my Yamaha and used my Panasonic panel audio via the HDMI cable and every issue was repeatable.

I pulled the plug, been with D* since 1995 and I am 100% fed up with them. I ordered FIOS today. I will cancel D* next week after FIOS is working. I saw no alternatives, I gave D* 5 months and what did they do - NOTHING.


----------



## JeffBowser

I have no exception to anything you said, except the "done nothing" part. As a software company owner, I hear that phrase a lot from people who don't get their desired fix or feature immediately. My question to you - how do you know they have done nothing, and how do you know that anything they do, or can do, is not so involved or complex that it can be done in your desired time frame?

Not a specific knock on you, I'd switch, too, if I had the problem as bad as you describe, but the sentiment doesn't change.



gquiring said:


> I tried watching Supernatural and later today TNT and was plastered with audio dropouts. I bypassed my Yamaha and used my Panasonic panel audio via the HDMI cable and every issue was repeatable.
> 
> I pulled the plug, been with D* since 1995 and I am 100% fed up with them. I ordered FIOS today. I will cancel D* next week after FIOS is working. I saw no alternatives, I gave D* 5 months and what did they do - NOTHING.


----------



## gquiring

JeffBowser said:


> I have no exception to anything you said, except the "done nothing" part. As a software company owner, I hear that phrase a lot from people who don't get their desired fix or feature immediately. My question to you - how do you know they have done nothing, and how do you know that anything they do, or can do, is not so involved or complex that it can be done in your desired time frame?
> 
> Not a specific knock on you, I'd switch, too, if I had the problem as bad as you describe, but the sentiment doesn't change.


I am a software developer and I can tell you we would lose business if our software had known bugs that we did not address in 5 months let alone 5 weeks. I gave D* several calls and tried all their hand stand solutions and denials of the problem. Five months is more than ample time to fix something THAT USED TO WORK prior to Nov 2009. If they are going to take longer or would like to explain themselves they had my phone number. They could have tried to justify the problem.


----------



## JeffBowser

I'm not trying to stir your anger, I'm just saying, and especially as a software developer, you should know - things don't always happen on any end-user specified time frame, no matter how much both sides wishes it can be so.

This particular issue has many variables, not all of which are under control of one single entity. For example - how come I, with my main box being an HR23, connected via TOSLink, do not suffer from unbearable audio interruptions, but others do? You know how hard it is to debug something that does not exhibit in all cases.



gquiring said:


> I am a software developer and I can tell you we would lose business if our software had known bugs that we did not address in 5 months let alone 5 weeks. I gave D* several calls and tried all their hand stand solutions and denials of the problem. Five months is more than ample time to fix something THAT USED TO WORK prior to Nov 2009. If they are going to take longer or would like to explain themselves they had my phone number. They could have tried to justify the problem.


----------



## BKC

gquiring said:


> I tried watching Supernatural and later today TNT and was plastered with audio dropouts. I bypassed my Yamaha and used my Panasonic panel audio via the HDMI cable and every issue was repeatable.
> 
> I pulled the plug, been with D* since 1995 and I am 100% fed up with them. I ordered FIOS today. I will cancel D* next week after FIOS is working. I saw no alternatives, I gave D* 5 months and what did they do - NOTHING.


Oh how I wish I could join you....... Please make sure you tell them exactly why you are leaving, it might help the rest of us that are stuck here.


----------



## BKC

JeffBowser said:


> I'm not trying to stir your anger, I'm just saying, and especially as a software developer, you should know - things don't always happen on any end-user specified time frame, no matter how much both sides wishes it can be so.
> 
> This particular issue has many variables, not all of which are under control of one single entity. For example - how come I, with my main box being an HR23, connected via TOSLink, do not suffer from unbearable audio interruptions, but others do? You know how hard it is to debug something that does not exhibit in all cases.


Shouldn't be hard at all to look back and see what they did in Oct. and reverse/repair it.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> Shouldn't be hard at all to look back and see what they did in Oct. and reverse/repair it.


If this came from a firmware update to the Harmonic encoders, then DirecTV must wait for Harmonic to come up with their "next fix".
As I've posted here so many times, this isn't as easy as everyone may think. Yes, it still falls under DirecTV responsibility, but they may not truly be in control of this, since there is a lot of finger pointing to the program provider and the then the encoder maker, where DirecTV is simply stuck in the middle of a three ring circus.


----------



## Lord Vader

I've been getting audio dropouts on anything and everything--local channels, national HD channels, etc.--on the following receivers:

HR20-700 (all of mine), HR21-100, and HR22-100.

This has been going on some time, and the dropouts can last from a split second to usually 2-5 seconds! Unacceptable.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> If this came from a firmware update to the Harmonic encoders, then DirecTV must wait for Harmonic to come up with their "next fix".
> As I've posted here so many times, this isn't as easy as everyone may think. Yes, it still falls under DirecTV responsibility, but they may not truly be in control of this, since there is a lot of finger pointing to the program provider and the then the encoder maker, where DirecTV is simply stuck in the middle of a three ring circus.


It's really hard to see where you stand. You have been constantly inconsistent. You saying "this isn't as easy as everyone may think" means no more than someone else saying it can be fixed with the snap of their fingers. Fact is, you don't know anymore than I do about it. DTV screwed it up and it shouldn't take five months to fix, I don't care where the problem is.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> Fact is, you don't know anymore than I do about it.


 Guess I'd first need to know how much [or little] you know, to agree or not.


----------



## BKC

I have no clue as to why it's screwed up, same as you.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> I have no clue as to why it's screwed up, same as you.


Glad you seem to know so much.
I've posted this here before, and been tracking these issues for a very long time. I've had direct contact with the broadcast center engineers, along with the local station engineers, and also worked for the encoder manufacturer, so "yeah I don't have a clue."


----------



## steveholtam

If Directv reads this thread, add another person to the list with the audio drop outs. I was thinking it was just me till I found this thread. Both my HR's are hooked up to Onkyo receivers, and I was worried it was a problem with them decoding the digital signal. I guess now I know who to be mad at!


----------



## veryoldschool

steveholtam said:


> If Directv reads this thread, add another person to the list with the audio drop outs. I was thinking it was just me till I found this thread. Both my HR's are hooked up to Onkyo receivers, and I was worried it was a problem with them decoding the digital signal. I guess now I know who to be mad at!


If it's with KCRA, you can still blame them, but for the nationals, it will be someone else.


----------



## dbrowning

I have the h23-600 and get frequent audio drop outs. This is through toslink through the receiver, or directly to the tv. The sd receiver in the bed room don't have these symptoms. Seems to me it is with the hd receivers. I came back to D after a year with dish, and can honestly say I never had the dropouts with dish, and watch pretty much the same channels.I will wait a while longer then I will give direct a call, gets pretty annoying at times.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> Glad you seem to know so much.
> I've posted this here before, and been tracking these issues for a very long time. I've had direct contact with the broadcast center engineers, along with the local station engineers, and also worked for the encoder manufacturer, so "yeah I don't have a clue."


:lol:


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> :lol:


What's so funny? VOS has been actively involved in trying to solve this issue. Care to share what you've done? Do you have a background in this?


----------



## veryoldschool

sigma1914 said:


> What's so funny? VOS has been actively involved in trying to solve this issue. Care to share what you've done? Do you have a background in this?


It's OK, I think everyone is a bit pissed at this and his :lol: was taken by me as the two of us :lol:.
Sometimes you have to :lol: or you'll just


----------



## sigma1914

veryoldschool said:


> It's OK, I think everyone is a bit pissed at this and his :lol: was taken by me as the two of us :lol:.
> Sometimes you have to :lol: or you'll just


I hope you're right. Keep doin' what you can VOS...and others.


----------



## veryoldschool

sigma1914 said:


> I hope you're right. Keep doin' what you can VOS...and others.


He started this thread on 11-07-09
I've started two before at least a year earlier.
Brriiipps have changed to audio dropouts.

I even tried to have this one merged with mine, but the DirecTV engineers wanted to keep it here.

"The problem is" simply something that isn't a quick fix and we're all suffering.


----------



## txfeinbergs

Does anyone NOT have an Onkyo receiver? :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

txfeinbergs said:


> Does anyone NOT have an Onkyo receiver? :lol:


Cheap POS Sony here


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> What's so funny? VOS has been actively involved in trying to solve this issue. Care to share what you've done? Do you have a background in this?


What's so funny? If you've followed his postings on this you would already know. He's covered it isn't DTV's fault, it's not software, it's the hard drive, it's the stations, Speed has been doing it for over a year so I'm wrong that mine started in Oct, the birrps have turned into audio drops, it's your audio equipment, it can't be the Oct. update, it started at the same time double play started, it's DTV's responsibility but may not be their problem, the software update may go to the encoder, turn off your DD. (I'm sure I've missed a bunch too)

Get the picture? Throw enough things out there and sooner or later...... If VOS knows by all means he should let DTV in on it.

What have I done? About a zillion emails and phone calls with DTV and shared about everything possible except my wife with them.

Do you have a background in this? Yes, I have friggin audio dropouts for five months..... :lol:

Don't get me wrong, I know VoS wants to be the one that discovers the cure and he wants to appear he knows what could be wrong but it boils down to he doesn't anymore than I do. What it could be doesn't cure the problem or the frustration.

So, how long before this post gets removed or the thread closed?


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> So, how long before this post gets removed or the thread closed?


If we stay civil it won't.
Now as I've posted there are several problems that all end up being audio dropouts.
Once you peel all of them down to what you can't do anything about, these are what are from the program provider and/or how the MPEG-4 encoders handle the corrupted bits in the audio/Dolby encoding.
To say that every post in this thread comes down to only one problem isn't doing anybody a service, "IF" you actually read what they are and have the brains/where with all to to look at the trends/symptoms.

I joined this thread late and fought with you to get you to realize where the problem was, but instead you've been the only one that "doesn't get it" and feels it the software in the receiver, even though there has been over a dozen versions under test and several different receivers, all running different software [DVR & non DVR] and the problem pre-dated the first time you found it, but hey you seem to be totally fix in your mind, which I can't help you with, so I'll post for others and continue to help them if I can.


----------



## JeffBowser

It would do you well to grant VOS a level of respect.



BKC said:


> What's so funny? If you've followed his postings on this you would already know. He's covered it isn't DTV's fault, it's not software, it's the hard drive, it's the stations, Speed has been doing it for over a year so I'm wrong that mine started in Oct, the birrps have turned into audio drops, it's your audio equipment, it can't be the Oct. update, it started at the same time double play started, it's DTV's responsibility but may not be their problem, the software update may go to the encoder, turn off your DD. (I'm sure I've missed a bunch too)
> 
> Get the picture? Throw enough things out there and sooner or later...... If VOS knows by all means he should let DTV in on it.
> 
> What have I done? About a zillion emails and phone calls with DTV and shared about everything possible except my wife with them.
> 
> Do you have a background in this? Yes, I have friggin audio dropouts for five months..... :lol:
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I know VoS wants to be the one that discovers the cure and he wants to appear he knows what could be wrong but it boils down to he doesn't anymore than I do. What it could be doesn't cure the problem or the frustration.
> 
> So, how long before this post gets removed or the thread closed?


----------



## JeffBowser

Sony, here. Two since this issue started, and my newer one vastly changed the nature of the problem to nearly (but not quite) unnoticeable.



txfeinbergs said:


> Does anyone NOT have an Onkyo receiver? :lol:


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> If we stay civil it won't.
> Now as I've posted there are several problems that all end up being audio dropouts.
> Once you peel all of them down to what you can't do anything about, these are what are from the program provider and/or how the MPEG-4 encoders handle the corrupted bits in the audio/Dolby encoding.
> To say that every post in this thread comes down to only one problem isn't doing anybody a service, "IF" you actually read what they are and have the brains/where with all to to look at the trends/symptoms.
> 
> I joined this thread late and fought with you to get you to realize where the problem was, but instead you've been the only one that "doesn't get it" and feels it the software in the receiver, even though there has been over a dozen versions under test and several different receivers, all running different software [DVR & non DVR] and the problem pre-dated the first time you found it, but hey you seem to be totally fix in your mind, which I can't help you with, so I'll post for others and continue to help them if I can.


I don't get it? lol I just listed all the things you thought it was/is and I agree with you, it could be any one of those things but it could be something else too. The fact remains it came with the Oct update and got much better (for me anyway and you also told me and others there was no fix in this update) with the last update but it's still not fully repaired.

Now if you would quit quoting me and more or less telling me I don't know wtf is going on with MY receiver in MY house I wouldn't be inclined to answer you.  The people I've talked to at DTV seem to believe it's with the software and it will be repaired with an update. Now either they're blowing smoke which is entirely possible or........ 

Sometimes it's just best to say DTV is working on the problem than to throw out a thousand things it could be and none of which the end user can do anything about.


----------



## BKC

JeffBowser said:


> It would do you well to grant VOS a level of respect.


I have probably shown him more respect than he has me. I have never once told him he didn't know what he was seeing on his receiver in his house. We just disagree it's not a big deal. :lol:


----------



## garygaryj

Lots of audio drop-outs on a local Fox channel for me, but limited to the one channel.


----------



## veryoldschool

So with 628 posts here what has been posted:


Those using AVRs seem to have more or longer lasting problems.
Turning Dolby off [sucks] can reduce these.
It seems to be only with HD channels.
OTA is MPEG-2, which would mean it's either from the station or in the receiver, be it a hardware problem or the software.
SAT feeds are MPEG-2 converted to MPEG-4, which adds another encoder, which is known to have issues.
There are known/common channels that seem to have these problems more than others. SpeedTV, ESPN, National Geographic, TNT, to name just a few, but not all SAT channels seem to be the same. This would be hard to say these are the receiver's hardware or software, since it happens [at least here] with any HD receiver, running any software, be it a DVR or not and is only on "some" channels. How could some not have the problem and others have it and it still be a hardware/software problem?

Some have had these problems with recordings or while in the live buffer, but not have these while watching "live TV". This would seem to be in the receiver and since it's not wide spread would seem to be the hardware [most likely a hard drive type problem].
These may not be all of them but seem to be the ones that have been posted the most.
The MPEG-4 encoders have been an ongoing problem, where they first would brriipp and now seem to have had a firmware update that blanks this [audio dropout]. From what I've seen, first they had problems syncing the audio with the video, then they "fixed" this and we had Briipps as the encoder would break lock, since the audio is how the video is kept in sync. Any missing or corrupted bit in the audio may not be noticed in the MPEG-2 feed, but causes the transcoding to MPEG-4 to glitch. This "glitch" sometimes will have a glitch in the video as well, since the encoder has to reset.
The latest "fix" to the encoders seems to now blank out the brriipps.
This is what I've seen over the past two years.
There is very little we can do about problems in the SAT feed, other than letting DirecTV know which channels and when this is happening.
CSRs aren't geared to help with this very much. The best I've been able to get them to do is to send an email to the network broadcast center, but their response normally is to wait until there are "X number" of these to look into it. I have gone down this path for months with my locals and never got anywhere, so I emailed [email protected] VP of customer services. Of course she didn't reply, but I did get a phone call from someone under her. It took several conversations before Ellen got involved and sent out a team to verify my system and have me show them recordings of the problems. This team agreed it has nothing to do with my system/hardware or software. This was when I got to talk directly to an engineer in the broadcast center to did explain what was happening with the MPEG-4 encoders. This took several months to happen and I'm posting this so others don't have to go through this themselves.

In a "perfect world", each MPEG-2 feed would have zero errors and every MPEG-4 encoder would have zero problems.
The real world isn't perfect, so the source of the problems can be from the MPEG-2 provider [as my own local station engineer has admitted was on their end] or that the MPEG-4 encoders isn't handling the MPEG-2 conversion properly.
In an "ideal world" the manufacturer of the MPEG-4 encoders would make them tolerant to everything the MPEG-2 provider supplied.


----------



## BKC

Here is what the deal is with mine again

1. Dropouts happen with or without sound system. With or without TOSlink 
2. Turning off DD has no affect on the dropouts on my receiver.
3. Running my one local channel through the receiver I have way more dropouts than watching it without going through the HR-20
4. Dropouts are there either live or recorded, every one can be repeated.
5. Even after the last update making the dropouts better I have at least 10-20 times more dropouts than I ever had birrps. 
6. Some people have them and some don't.


----------



## veryoldschool

BKC said:


> Here is what the deal is with mine again
> 
> 1. Dropouts happen with or without sound system. With or without TOSlink
> 2. Turning off DD has no affect on the dropouts on my receiver.
> 3. Running my one local channel through the receiver I have way more dropouts than watching it without going through the HR-20
> 4. Dropouts are there either live or recorded, every one can be repeated.
> 5. Even after the last update making the dropouts better I have at least 10-20 times more dropouts than I ever had birrps.
> 6. Some people have them and some don't.


Everything you've posted seems to match what I've been posting, but #3 is interesting. It's a local which would be unique to your market.
You say you have less dropouts by not using the HR20, but then you do have them, so these are from the OTA MPEG-2 feed to your TV? This would point to these being from the station, correct? [please correct me if this is wrong]. Now when you use the HR20, is this with the OTA tuner, or through the local SAT MPEG-4 HD feed? If the MPEG-4, then [again] this is right in line with what I've posted.
Now if this was using the HR20 OTA tuner, it would still be MPEG-2, so it wouldn't be the MPEG-4 encoder, but either the crappy OTA tuner in the HR20 [these haven't ever been as good as the 5th gen Digital tuners], or that there is some bug in the software that could be improved.


----------



## Dazed & Confused

I've never been accused of being the most observant person around, but I didn't realize there was an audio dropout problem until just perusing this thread. I remember the dreaded bripppp being unbearable at times, but they just sort of went away. I certainly won't say I have zero dropouts, but I can say I have never noticed it as a problem. I am probably going to regret reading this thread, because now That I know about them they will start driving me crazy. :lol:

I will be paying attention, and report back if I actually have the dropouts. I have an HR20-100 connected by TOSlink to an older Sony receiver (STR-DB1070), and an HR22-100 hooked directly to the TV via HDMI. I honestly haven't noticed a problem with either setup.


----------



## BKC

Dazed & Confused said:


> I've never been accused of being the most observant person around, but I didn't realize there was an audio dropout problem until just perusing this thread. I remember the dreaded bripppp being unbearable at times, but they just sort of went away. I certainly won't say I have zero dropouts, but I can say I have never noticed it as a problem. I am probably going to regret reading this thread, because now That I know about them they will start driving me crazy. :lol:
> 
> I will be paying attention, and report back if I actually have the dropouts. I have an HR20-100 connected by TOSlink to an older Sony receiver (STR-DB1070), and an HR22-100 hooked directly to the TV via HDMI. I honestly haven't noticed a problem with either setup.


Trust me on this, you would know it if you had them. :lol:


----------



## txfeinbergs

Well, I had an audio drop out on Spartacus at the 42 minute mark during the Party Favor episode with my Onkyo receiver. I had also recorded it upstairs. Upstairs I have a Sony receiver and there was no audio drop. Of course, to truly rule things out such as house wiring and the HD-DVR itself, I really need to take the downstairs receiver upstairs and run it through the Sony receiver to see if there is an audio drop-out - I am just not that motivated.


----------



## txfeinbergs

After thinking about it some more, I am pretty much down to the problem being inside the DirecTV receiver, or the Audio Receiver. The problem is:

A. Definitely within my house and not the network
B. The problem is not with the wiring or dish because certain channels work fine downstairs whereas other channels are more problematic (but only on the downstairs receiver). (both of my DirecTV receivers are HR21-100's).

Interesting observances: most of us coming to this thread have Onkyo receivers. 

Once I get another program with audio issues recorded on both receivers, if the upstairs receiver does not exhibit the problem, I will move it downstairs and see if the problem is noticed. If yes, the problem is the Onkyo. If no, there is something wrong with my downstairs HR21-100 and I will call for a replacement.


----------



## veryoldschool

HBO The Pacific part 4, recorded from the first airing.
As with last week's episode, there were audio dropouts/loss of Dolby 5.1.
14 of them during the 1 hour show, on my new HR24.
Some were slightly longer/larger than others, but I watched my Sony receiver lose 5.1 at a given rate/time. So much so that I could wait and watch for them to come. At first they seemed to be every 5 mins, but by the 1:00 mark, with 14, this was refined to every 4.28 mins.


----------



## Coca Cola Kid

I've been having audio dropouts on Animal Planet for the last week.


----------



## njfoses

Coca Cola Kid said:


> I've been having audio dropouts on Animal Planet for the last week.


Same here.


----------



## vthokies1996

txfeinbergs said:


> After thinking about it some more, I am pretty much down to the problem being inside the DirecTV receiver, or the Audio Receiver. The problem is:
> 
> A. Definitely within my house and not the network
> B. The problem is not with the wiring or dish because certain channels work fine downstairs whereas other channels are more problematic (but only on the downstairs receiver). (both of my DirecTV receivers are HR21-100's).
> 
> Interesting observances: most of us coming to this thread have Onkyo receivers.
> 
> Once I get another program with audio issues recorded on both receivers, if the upstairs receiver does not exhibit the problem, I will move it downstairs and see if the problem is noticed. If yes, the problem is the Onkyo. If no, there is something wrong with my downstairs HR21-100 and I will call for a replacement.


I don't think it is the Audio Receiver. When I lost all sound on my Onkyo the PCM light was lit up. It is never lit up. I had 2 shows recording so I did all the trouble shooting I could without turning off the box.

I had no problem receiving sound on my Blu-Ray player which is hooked up to the other HDMI input.

I switched HDMI cables.

I hooked up the Directv receiver to the input that the Blu-Ray player was using.

I switched the sound to come thru optical audio instead of HDMI.

I finally did a facotry reset on the Onkyo receiver.

None of the steps I took fixed the problem.

The sound didn't return until I did a red-button reset of the Directv receiver. After it rebooted, the sound immediately came back. I even had sound for the shows that were recording while the sound was out.


----------



## hdtvluvr

veryoldschool said:


> HBO The Pacific part 4, recorded from the first airing.
> As with last week's episode, there were audio dropouts/loss of Dolby 5.1.
> 14 of them during the 1 hour show, on my new HR24.
> Some were slightly longer/larger than others, but I watched my Sony receiver lose 5.1 at a given rate/time. So much so that I could wait and watch for them to come. At first they seemed to be every 5 mins, but by the 1:00 mark, with 14, this was refined to every 4.28 mins.


You are ahead of me somehow. Part 3 was broadcast on HBO Sunday night at my house.

Anyway, I didn't have any audio or video problems from the recording. Using a Yamaha receiver and HR20-700 with optical for sound.

However, I did have a problem with Cold Case (recorded OTA). I had video /audio skips/freezes all during the show. I could hear the hard drive chatter.

I do have some recordings that have audio issues and no video issues but there aren't many.

I also had the problem that others had last week where they turned everything on and none of the MPEG4 HD channels had sound. It took a reset to get it back.

Oh, this HR20 was a replacement (about 4 - 6 weeks ago) since what it replaced was doing the same thing. All D* wanted to do when I called was replace the unit.

I've thought about getting an external drive but there doesn't appear to be a consensus on which drive/enclosure always works on the HR20. Also those that have externals are seeing the same issues I have. Therefore, I don't know if it is the signal (D* and OTA), firmware, hardware (power supply, etc.) or hard drive.

BTW, I have another HR20 in the house that is connected to a Sony soundbar using HDMI (still DD). Wife watches recordings on it and she hasn't noticed any audio/video problems.

Both HR20's record approx the same number of hours of material especially now with MRV. I got the HR20's at the same time but as stated above got the one in our theater as a replacement recently.


----------



## veryoldschool

hdtvluvr said:


> You are ahead of me somehow. Part 3 was broadcast on HBO Sunday night at my house.


You're right. I don't know why I thought it was pt 4.
I watched pt 1 with HDMI to my TV.
During pt 2 I started noticing what I thought were dropouts, still with HDMI, and changed over to the Sony AVR, which did show that there were dropouts.
Pt 3 I used the AVR for the whole show and was able to monitor/time them better.


----------



## gquiring

Just a follow up after 24 hours of FIOS. No audio drops on TNT which was a huge problem on D* for me. So everyone get it out your heads that it's your TV, receiver whatever .... The PQ is a noticeable improvement also. The DVR is also blazing fast. So the only downside is the smaller storage. I also saved $70 a month. So thank you D*, I saved a lot of money because of your screw ups!!


----------



## JeffBowser

I'm soooo glad you have set us straight and explained what the problem is. Perhaps someone up here can put you in touch with DirecTV engineering straight away!



gquiring said:


> So everyone get it out your heads that it's your TV, receiver whatever ....


----------



## BKC

JeffBowser said:


> I'm soooo glad you have set us straight and explained what the problem is. Perhaps someone up here can put you in touch with DirecTV engineering straight away!


It would do you well to grant gquiring a level of respect......


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> It would do you well to grant gquiring a level of respect......


Give and take...gquiring's last post wasn't quite respectful or add much.


----------



## gitarzan

gquiring said:


> Just a follow up after 24 hours of FIOS. No audio drops on TNT which was a huge problem on D* for me. So everyone get it out your heads that it's your TV, receiver whatever .... The PQ is a noticeable improvement also. The DVR is also blazing fast. So the only downside is the smaller storage. I also saved $70 a month. So thank you D*, I saved a lot of money because of your screw ups!!


Thanks, one of the better posts so far in this thread! DirecTV simply does not care about this problem and won't until enough people switch. I switched last month.


----------



## gquiring

sigma1914 said:


> Give and take...gquiring's last post wasn't quite respectful or add much.


I took the D* handstand test and replaced every cable DirecTV was blaming, 5.1 TOS, HDMI, bypased my Yamaha receiver and they still won't listen that it was the Oct 09 update. All I wanted to do was put some minds at ease that it's not their Onkyo receiver, HDMI or whatever else D* is blaming. For those that have a choice, there is an option to learning how to read lips which is what D* wants us to do:nono2:


----------



## sigma1914

gquiring said:


> I took the D* handstand test and replaced every cable DirecTV was blaming, 5.1 TOS, HDMI, bypased my Yamaha receiver and they still won't listen that it was the Oct 09 update. All I wanted to do was put some minds at ease that it's not their Onkyo receiver, HDMI or whatever else D* is blaming. For those that have a choice, there is an option to learning how to read lips which is what D* wants us to do:nono2:


So every receiver had it, too, or did you swap any? How often were dropouts? I rarely see this issue...yeah, I've seen Speed Channel be horrible , ESPN has had blips for years, & HBO's mpeg2 recorded content was bad. I see maybe 1 drop for every 5 hrs of viewing.


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> Just a follow up after 24 hours of FIOS. No audio drops on TNT which was a huge problem on D* for me. So everyone get it out your heads that it's your TV, receiver whatever .... The PQ is a noticeable improvement also. The DVR is also blazing fast. So the only downside is the smaller storage. I also saved $70 a month. So thank you D*, I saved a lot of money because of your screw ups!!


Yes, the MPEG-2 is more forgiving than the MPEG-4 encoder. [think I've posted this a few times before].


----------



## gquiring

sigma1914 said:


> So every receiver had it, too, or did you swap any? How often were dropouts? I rarely see this issue...yeah, I've seen Speed Channel be horrible , ESPN has had blips for years, & HBO's mpeg2 recorded content was bad. I see maybe 1 drop for every 5 hrs of viewing.


I heard a drop every 5-10 minutes on TNT, FX, USA and most other Nationals. But I did not get drops on the locals (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC) which was my reasoning to D* on how could it be my cables/hardware. How is my cable or receiver going to know it's TNT vs FOX? Bottom line is they were not listening because they never bothered to get someone technical to really discuss the issues. All I got was the level 1 support to convince the customer that there is no problem and the issue is your equipment.

I gave D* 5 months. I felt that was a very reasonable amount of time to get the problem resolved. I always had options (CableVision, FIOS or DISH) to select but I gave them ample time. I was with D* for 15 years, I had no desire to switch, I wanted them to resolve the problem. They made no effort to ease the situation or to follow up on the problem.


----------



## veryoldschool

gquiring said:


> I gave D* 5 months. I felt that was a very reasonable amount of time to get the problem resolved. I always had options (CableVision, FIOS or DISH) to select but I gave them ample time. I was with D* for 15 years, I had no desire to switch, I wanted them to resolve the problem. They made no effort to ease the situation or to follow up on the problem.


I completely understand your position. "Options" are always good things. 
Dish is my only other option here. I've already tried the local cable.


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> Give and take...gquiring's last post wasn't quite respectful or add much.


Those were the exact words he posted to me above with a different poster's name. Where were you then? :lol:


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> Those were the exact words he posted to me above with a different poster's name. Where were you then? :lol:


I was watching dropout free TV. :lol:


----------



## BKC

!rolling I wish I could!


----------



## mickcris

gquiring said:


> I heard a drop every 5-10 minutes on TNT, FX, USA and most other Nationals. But I did not get drops on the locals (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC) which was my reasoning to D* on how could it be my cables/hardware. How is my cable or receiver going to know it's TNT vs FOX? Bottom line is they were not listening because they never bothered to get someone technical to really discuss the issues. All I got was the level 1 support to convince the customer that there is no problem and the issue is your equipment.
> 
> I gave D* 5 months. I felt that was a very reasonable amount of time to get the problem resolved. I always had options (CableVision, FIOS or DISH) to select but I gave them ample time. I was with D* for 15 years, I had no desire to switch, I wanted them to resolve the problem. They made no effort to ease the situation or to follow up on the problem.


I'm about to bail on them also. If it isn't fixed by the time my contact is up (in July, I think), I am gone. These dropouts are very annoying.


----------



## JeffBowser

:lol: Something I said before stuck in your mind, eh?



BKC said:


> It would do you well to grant gquiring a level of respect......


----------



## housemr

I have noticed this since the weekend of march 19 but my wife said she noticed it a few weeks before that. Was there an update around that time as i have never noticed this before but now it seems to happen a lot when it does. Just last night when i had the nit on espn 2 on it dropped out like 6 times over the course of 10 minutes, lost for say 1 second each time, then was fine for an hour. Video quality stayed great and i have 90 average on signal strength.

i have a kenwood VR-357 and am connecting from my hddvr hr 21 to my kenwood by optical cable.(would optical vs coaxial matter with this issue)

any guess from anyone why it seems this just started as i have zero dropouts from my htpc & my dvd player


----------



## txfeinbergs

From the Onkyo website:

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)
I am experiencing audio (Sound) dropouts when watching a Dolby Digital broadcast from my Satellite or Cable Box that is connected to my receiver with the digital optical or the coax connection.
We have been working with Dolby Laboratories on a repair for the Dolby Digital broadcast issue that occurs with digital cable systems as well as digital satellite broadcast. We are aware of the issues that have affected our receivers with the newer version of broadcast encoding that Dolby Laboratories has been using. We have since had success with a new version of chipset that we have installed in each of the receiver models that have been affected. The models that are found to have the problems are the TX-DS595, TX-DS696, TX-DS797 and the TX-DS898. If you own one of these units while using any form of Dolby Laboratories Digital broadcast and are experiencing the audio dropouts and would like to have the issue resolved, please check our website for your nearest authorized service location. Take the unit to them with your bill of sale, at that point please call us at 800-229-1687 and select option 2 for our product support team. We will assist having the unit repaired for you.


----------



## txfeinbergs

FYI, those receivers they mention are fairly old units. Mine is much newer, so apparently they still have not fixed their problems with later receivers. Guess I am not buying another Onkyo. Looking at a new Sony to get rid of this problem.


----------



## brucegrr

Yeah I just called Onkyo. I have a HT-R550. No chip repair for this model.

Onkyo support must have been trained by Directv support:

1. Change audio cable
2. Reset receiver
3. Reset DVR
4. Use TV for sound

 Not sure what else I expected.

I bought my receiver in May 0f 2007.

I have resigned myself to this being just the way it is. I have other choice but Directv or Dish (or antenna or nothing)and since I want to watch baseball Directv is it. 

Kinda like being married. I am very happy with my wife 99% of the time. It is the other 1% though that drives me crazy. 

Bruce


----------



## JJJBBB

Tried to watch "Meet Joe Black" on HBO HD last night and the audio drops were so bad we had to give up. At least on pop per 30 seconds drove us crazy. Noticed this a lot lately on the movie channels especially. When the scenes go almost silent and then something happens is when the pops occur. May have to just give them up for the blu-ray player if they don't get a fix. H20-100


----------



## txfeinbergs

If you run into a program that is particularly bad, just go into the DirecTV Receiver audio menu and turn dolby digital off. At least you can hear what they are saying. I had to do this last night for Justified. No audio drop-outs then, just no surround sound either.


----------



## njfoses

espn has been bad for a few days now. Dropouts every few mins.


----------



## majikmarker

Just wanted to add my voice to this as well. I also have an Onkyo receiver (707) and experience annoying dropouts on the commonly listed channels in the thread (TNT and ESPN seem to be the worst). Locals seem mostly trouble free (never had one during Lost, rarely during March Madness so CBS seems okay). 

Funny thing is on ABC, whenever I see one of their "fancy" network identifiers (promo for an upcoming show, followed by "next on ABC) the "A" is almost always cut off/mostly inaudible but don't notice a problem during their shows (or so rarely that I don't pick up on the pattern.

Add me to the list of those annoyed with this issue.


----------



## matty8199

TONS of dropouts tonight on YES (631) during the opening night game (yankees @ red sox). i have a samsung HTIB system and have been having the dropouts on pretty much all HD channels ever since i hooked the system up and turned dolby digital on...


----------



## bferra01

Getting interrmittent drop outs on YES (631) tonight. Have a Sharp Aquos, Denon receiver and HD-DVR model 22. Any word from DirecTV on this yet?


----------



## BKC

*NO*


----------



## joed32

matty8199 said:


> TONS of dropouts tonight on YES (631) during the opening night game (yankees @ red sox). i have a samsung HTIB system and have been having the dropouts on pretty much all HD channels ever since i hooked the system up and turned dolby digital on...


I get it too, nothing to do with Onkyo. The drop outs are coming from the DVR.


----------



## jackal2001

It has nothing to do with Onkyo. I have a Pioneer receiver and i get drop outs as well.

My parents just had D* installed and they have a HR23-700, HDMI right to TV for audio and video and they had some audio drop outs as well.


----------



## brucegrr

The % of Onkyo's in the discussion is quite high. It is statistically significant. Why is the % so high? 

I did not say it was an Onkyo only problem. It may be the DVR BUT it seems to matter what type of AV receiver it is connected to. (and Onkyo seems to come up an awful lot)


----------



## hookemfins

I have dropouts when hitting the replay button on live sports. Happened last night watching the O's on 640 and quite a bit on espn.


----------



## gquiring

It's not the receiver, it's DirecTV. My _defective_ Yamaha and Panasonic P50v10 with D* works fine on FIOS. Zero dropouts. My Yamaha worked fine on D* prior to the Oct 09 update. Everyone needs to get it out of their heads that it's your equipment. It's a software problem that D* caused.


----------



## veryoldschool

brucegrr said:


> The % of Onkyo's in the discussion is quite high. It is statistically significant. Why is the % so high?
> 
> I did not say it was an Onkyo only problem. It may be the DVR BUT it seems to matter what type of AV receiver it is connected to. (and Onkyo seems to come up an awful lot)


"I'd guess" this has to do with how long receivers take to "recover" [switch from and back to DD5.1].
HBO's The Pacific is something I use my Sony for, where most TV is simply HDMI to the TV.
The SAT feed has DD 5.1 loss on a regular rate/pattern of 4-5 mins.
This week I recorded both the east & west coast feeds.
Both had the same rate, but were about 2 mins later in the program on the west coast feed compared to the east coast feed.

I find this hard to suggest it came this way from HBO.


----------



## Mark Walters

Anybody having these audio dropouts with the HR24? Not sure if anyone has an HR24 yet, but I would like to know. Since the speed of the HR24 is noticeably faster than older HR* models I wonder if this also helps with the audio flowing smoothly. By the way I have an Onkyo receiver with an HR23 and get frequent audio dropouts. But I also have other HR23's and 22's without any receiver and I still get frequent audio dropouts. So it's not the Onkyo on my end. 

If that new D* HD Tivo ever comes out, I bet it doesn't have these problems. Perhaps the HR24 doesn't either. But I've read on some threads that we may never see an HD Tivo since D* only teamed with Tivo to avoid litigation. Not sure how accurate, could be just a rumor. Please let us know if you have an HR24 and don't have audio dropouts..


----------



## veryoldschool

Mark Walters said:


> Please let us know if you have an HR24 and don't have audio dropouts..


The HR24 works just like the others. My post above about The Pacific, was using my HR24 & my HR20.


----------



## BKC

gquiring said:


> It's not the receiver, it's DirecTV. My _defective_ Yamaha and Panasonic P50v10 with D* works fine on FIOS. Zero dropouts. My Yamaha worked fine on D* prior to the Oct 09 update. *Everyone needs to get it out of their heads that it's your equipment. It's a software problem that D* caused.*


----------



## Mark Walters

veryoldschool said:


> The HR24 works just like the others. My post above about The Pacific, was using my HR24 & my HR20.


So it does still suffer from audio dropouts you're saying? Is the HR24 much faster than the other HR's? Switching channels, no lagging? Pulling up the guide and moving through it quickly? No hiccups?


----------



## Mark Walters

BKC said:


>


Well if it's software -- what is taking so long to fix it? It's been a problem through many past software updates.. Last I reported the issue, D* said they didn't know about the problem and nobody was complaining. It looks like a lot of people have this problem seeing how many people have been on this thread.


----------



## DogLover

Mark Walters said:


> So it does still suffer from audio dropouts you're saying? Is the HR24 much faster than the other HR's? Switching channels, no lagging? Pulling up the guide and moving through it quickly? No hiccups?


Yes, it's faster. Obviously, if you are using HDMI, you still have the handshaking issue if you change resolutions. (If your TV and/or A/V receiver is slow, the HR24 will only speed up its side of the conversation, so there may still be a lag.)

I don't have the audio dropout problem on any of my DVRs, so I can't comment about that part.


----------



## Lord Vader

brucegrr said:


> The % of Onkyo's in the discussion is quite high. It is statistically significant. Why is the % so high?
> (and Onkyo seems to come up an awful lot)


Perhaps this is because there are more Onkyo receivers in use than most other brands.


----------



## vthokies1996

When I had my audio dropout, the troubleshooting steps I took eliminated my Onkyo receiver as the culprit. When I did a red button reset on my HD-DVR the audio came back. Thankfully, it has happened only 1 time. I do get occasional blips in the audio but have only had the one major audio dropout.


----------



## bjamin82

I called D* for this issue yesterday. We definitely concluded that my audio equipment isn't the cause. Since I had the protection plan and my current HDDVR was a referb from a previous replacement, they are shipping me another receiver. But now after reading all of this, I am skeptical that its Hardware over software. 

The CSR did mention that a lot of people are calling in for this issue. So they are definitely aware.


----------



## BKC

Mark Walters said:


> Well if it's software -- *what is taking so long to fix it*? It's been a problem through many past software updates.. Last I reported the issue, D* said they didn't know about the problem and nobody was complaining. It looks like a lot of people have this problem seeing how many people have been on this thread.


You need to be calling and asking DTV this, I can't answer it. Call and call often, it's the only thing that's going to get them on it.


----------



## brucegrr

Lord Vader said:


> Perhaps this is because there are more Onkyo receivers in use than most other brands.


I agree. My point is it is statistically significant....that's all.

When people speak emphatically without empirical data I question it. For someone to say it is not Directv is without foundation. It may be a combination of things causing this BUT I have no doubt Directv is in the mix.

Right now we have a lot of anecdotal evidence. We have some trends, some similarities.

The only thing for certain, it seems, it the silence from Directv.


----------



## hdtvluvr

veryoldschool said:


> "HBO's The Pacific is something I use my Sony for, where most TV is simply HDMI to the TV.
> The SAT feed has DD 5.1 loss on a regular rate/pattern of 4-5 mins.
> This week I recorded both the east & west coast feeds.
> Both had the same rate, but were about 2 mins later in the program on the west coast feed compared to the east coast feed.


I didn't have ANY dropouts from the east coast feed on the Pacific last week on my HR20-700. In fact, so far I haven't had any dropouts on any episode of this series.

However, I do have audio dropouts on other shows/channels.

So if it was the signal D* was sending, wouldn't we all (that experience dropouts on any channels) have had dropouts on The Pacific? I'm using a Yamaha RX-V3900 connected to the DVR using HDMI.

If it was a software bug in the DVR's then I could see how they randomly affect shows on various DVR's.


----------



## gitarzan

I don't think it means anything that a lot of us with audio drop outs have Onkyo AVR's. My Onkyo TXSR705 works fine with every HDMI device I have found to connect to it except my HR21. May be possible that the disproportionate number of Onkyo owners here is just simply that Onkyo receivers are very popular among the enthusiast crowd which DBSTALK readers fall into. Just check out how poplular the Onkyo receivers are over anything else over at avsforum.com.


----------



## txfeinbergs

I have no doubt the problem is with the DirecTV receiver/SW, but it may be being aggravated by how long it takes the Onkyo receivers to resync to the signal (just guessing here). My Sony receiver upstairs did not exhibit the same problem with the same recorded episode (granted, it is a different DVR -but same model - coming from the same Dish). I am going to be trying one of the new Pioneer VSX-1120-K receivers when they come out in June to see if it (hides or reduces) the issue.


----------



## Carl Spock

As a guy whose ears perk up with any drop out of the sound -- I'm an audio kind of guy -- my years of experience with DirecTV DVRs says expect them. Drop outs are inherent with their DVRs. At times, I've experienced many. Other times - in fact, most of the time - drop outs go away all together. But they always come back. It may be DirecTV's programing. Often it seems to be an upload problem at DirecTV. Maybe it's an HDMI handshake issue. I don't know. I've thought it was all three, and more, over the years. Today I was watching the Par 3 exhibition at the Masters on ESPN (and anybody whose suffered this problem over the years has experienced multiple ESPN drop outs). At one point there were maybe three long drop outs in a row. Is it DirecTV? Is it ESPN? Is it Tiger Woods boffing a blond? Who in the frak knows? Not me, and I'm considered proficient when it comes to sound.

I hate to say "get used to it", but have you ever had a car with an intermittent squeak? For me, audio drop outs are like that but less annoying. I accept them by now. It's a machine, built, programmed and operated by human beings. It's bound to be imperfect.

Or as the bard from Hibbing, Minnesota, said, "Everything's broken."


----------



## betterdan

Since I didn't have these audio drop outs last year using the exact same equipment but I get them now I have to suspect DTV software.


----------



## gquiring

betterdan said:


> Since I didn't have these audio drop outs last year using the exact same equipment but I get them now I have to suspect DTV software.


That's what I have been saying all along.


----------



## leprechaunshawn

The dropouts have been pretty bad watching The Masters on ESPN today. I'd say it's been about 8-10 of them per hour.


----------



## gquiring

Another issue that D* passed the buck on was the lip sync issue on TNT. I had complained about it and they 100% blamed TNT. Well FIOS has no lip sync issues with TNT. So it's another audio issue that D* is ignoring.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> Since I didn't have these audio drop outs last year using the exact same equipment but I get them now I have to suspect DTV software.





gquiring said:


> Another issue that D* passed the buck on was the lip sync issue on TNT. I had complained about it and they 100% blamed TNT. Well FIOS has no lip sync issues with TNT. So it's another audio issue that D* is ignoring.


Since your FiOS is still using MPEG-2, it doesn't have the transcoding issue going to MPEG-4 like DirecTV & Dish does: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2417997&postcount=30


----------



## mjbvideo

Another issue they are ignoring are the audio issues with some of their commercial inserts. Every once in a while on TBS or Comedy Central their inserts are 30 db louder and it is very distorted.
Some laughable suggestions are to use go back to the 80's and use the RCA audio outputs. Please. 
Others say disable Dolby Digital. Give. Me. A. Break. 
Seems like all these audio issues started at the same time. What in sam hill is going on at DTV????


----------



## crawdad62

mjbvideo said:


> Another issue they are ignoring are the audio issues with some of their commercial inserts. Every once in a while on TBS or Comedy Central their inserts are 30 db louder and it is very distorted.


Agreed. Well agreed on commercials being WAY louder. I haven't noticed any distortion It's particularly noticeable on HD channels and it seems to be worse with each update I've gotten.


----------



## sigma1914

gquiring said:


> Another issue that D* passed the buck on was the lip sync issue on TNT. I had complained about it and they 100% blamed TNT. Well FIOS has no lip sync issues with TNT. So it's another audio issue that D* is ignoring.


I've been watching NBA on TNT...No issue.


----------



## Davenlr

Dolby Digital on 731-1 (Cubs vs ATL) is cutting out at least once every 10 seconds. Its worse than I have ever heard it, and its on both my receiver and DVR.


----------



## RAD

Davenlr said:


> Dolby Digital on 731-1 (Cubs vs ATL) is cutting out at least once every 10 seconds. Its worse than I have ever heard it, and its on both my receiver and DVR.


731-1 for Cubs vs. Braves, my STB's show it on 737-1, 731-1 is Indians @ White Sox, and I'm not hearing any audio drops via a HR21-100 using TOSLINK to Onyko receiver.

Also checked a HR20-700 running HDMI to a Toshiba TV, that's also working fine.


----------



## sigma1914

Davenlr said:


> Dolby Digital on 731-1 (Cubs vs ATL) is cutting out at least once every 10 seconds. Its worse than I have ever heard it, and its on both my receiver and DVR.





RAD said:


> 731-1 for Cubs vs. Braves, my STB's show it on 737-1, 731-1 is Indians @ White Sox, and I'm not hearing any audio drops via a HR21-100 using TOSLINK to Onyko receiver


I checked 737-1 Cubs @ Braves and have no drops in the top 9th through bottom 9th with 2 on & 1 out.

Edit: I do get very very quick drops on 731-1 Indians @ White Sox.


----------



## RAD

They finally got their 1st win!


----------



## gquiring

sigma1914 said:


> I've been watching NBA on TNT...No issue.


How exactly does watching basketball have lip sync issues?


----------



## sigma1914

gquiring said:


> How exactly does watching basketball have lip sync issues?


You hear the ball bounce after or before it hits the rim or floor. TNT's studio show. Face time with commentators.


----------



## IseWise

Has anyone tested the results of audio dropouts on HDMI versus Toslink optical? I am using an HDMI cable every since I setup my HR22-100 and the audio dropout have always been there, so I am thinking about switching to optical and see if that fairs better. Can anyone tell me its worth switching out my cables?


----------



## brucegrr

I am using the optical connection, as are a lot of others. There are audio drops.


----------



## betterdan

Yep, using optical with bad audio drop outs.


----------



## hdtvluvr

Recently switched to HDMI (same AV Receiver). Dropouts occurred with optical and now with HDMI.


----------



## tsduke

I gotta say I'm really getting sick of these dropouts. ESPN has been awful this week. I didn't think I would say this, but I'm getting to the point of switching even if I lose things like NFL ST. This has been going on for over 5 months with no fix. Inexcusable!

I replaced my Onkyo receiver with a Denon, but still have the dropouts, but I will say the Denon handles them better.

I don't care who's at fault these dropouts and it's time for Directv to get it corrected! I'm not giving more than a month or 2 and I'm leaving.


----------



## Carl Spock

tsduke said:


> I'm not giving more than a month or 2 and I'm leaving.


Your schedule should be about right to keep you subscribed. In the past when DirecTV has brought on line a new satellite, drop out and lip sync problems have increased dramatically. They soon get worked out.

Why this happens on old stations that have been running fine, I couldn't guess. You'd have to ask DirecTV. All I can say is that history seems to be repeating itself.


----------



## JJJBBB

Tried to watch Meet Joe Black again on HBO HD East yesterday and got half way through this time before the audio drops became unbearable. I'm going to half to buy this on Blu-ray if I'm ever going to make it all the way through. TNT, FX, Sci-Fi, and most other channels except the premium Pay channels don't have this problem on my system, it's a shame the most expensive channels I pay for do.

H20-100


----------



## V'ger

Carl Spock said:


> Your schedule should be about right to keep you subscribed. In the past when DirecTV has brought on line a new satellite, drop out and lip sync problems have increased dramatically. They soon get worked out.
> 
> Why this happens on old stations that have been running fine, I couldn't guess. You'd have to ask DirecTV. All I can say is that history seems to be repeating itself.


Just before a new satellite is ready, D* has usually maxed out the bandwidth of the prior sats. Afterwards, they spread things out until everything is maxed again. Key is when they start turning off shopping and PPV channels to support sport packages and you see 'Channel will return at...' in the guide.

Now, the people with dropout, do you see them when you are set for stereo rather than Dolby digital. I recently recorded Star Trek:TMP off HDN Movies and played OK via stereo, but had drop outs on my AVR in DD.


----------



## RAD

V'ger;2419948 said:


> Just before a new satellite is ready, D* has usually maxed out the bandwidth of the prior sats. Afterwards, they spread things out until everything is maxed again. Key is when they start turning off shopping and PPV channels to support sport packages and you see 'Channel will return at...' in the guide.
> 
> Now, the people with dropout, do you see them when you are set for stereo rather than Dolby digital. I recently recorded Star Trek:TMP off HDN Movies and played OK via stereo, but had drop outs on my AVR in DD.


Sorry but disagree with your premise. The Ka satellites have basically had only 5 channels per transpnder since D10 first went up and D11 has continued with 5/TP. The HD PPV channels have always been 'sharable' with the part time RSN channels or the sports subscription channels like NFL-ST or NASCAR HotPass which aren't just remaps of a RSN channel.


----------



## kbtv

I don't know if this would be causing others audio problems but about a month ago I suddenly started getting severe audio dropouts both over HDMI and RCA audio (mainly when playing from buffer or recorded content - I could temporarily get audio back by hitting pause for a short time but dropouts quickly came back). This had never happened before and seemed to correspond with a software update. It was apparently somehow related to having the HR20-700 connected to my network (even though I was not using any networked features other than several months earlier I had tried the TV Apps). When I disconnected the network cable, it immediately improved but there were still some dropouts. When I restarted the receiver with the network cable disconnected (I restarted from setup menu, not red button reset), the dropouts were gone and have not come back.


----------



## thatsgreat

Have an HR23 and getting severe audio drop outs especially on ESPN. Did the same thing, disconnected the ethernet connection and the drop outs have quit with DD still on. I have a Pioneer SC05 receiver and have turned off DD on the HR23 which would make the drop outs stop. These all started around the OCT software update on my receiver. I had an HR20-700 and it was doing the drop outs but I never tried disconnecting the ethernet on that one, just turning off DD which caused them to stop on it as well.

Follow up:
Well, unplugging ethernet didn't work very long. Was watching The Tudors on Showtime and there was 5 audio drop outs. SO much for that idea. It seems turning off DD on the receiver will stop the drop outs but doesn't sound as good


----------



## bjamin82

Just another thread I have going...

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10679594


----------



## BKC

I sure hope everyone is emailing or calling and not just posting it here.........


----------



## CrownSeven

BKC said:


> I sure hope everyone is emailing or calling and not just posting it here.........


I have called them twice. The second time I called they sent me a replacement receiver, of course its still happening.

As others have said, if this doesn't get fixed soon, I won't be renewing when my contract is up in a few months.

Its that annoying.


----------



## betterdan

I am going to try unplugging my ethernet cable and watch The Apprentice tonight. It always has drop outs so I'll see what happens in about 10 minutes when it starts. For the people who said it fixed the drop outs by unplugging the network connection, did you have to reboot the box or not after unplugging the cable?


----------



## RAD

I just must be lucky since I don't have this issue on the HR21-100, HR22-100 HR23-700 and HR24-500 that I use regularly. The HR22-100 and HR23-700 are connected via HDMI to the TV. The HR21-100 is used with either the HDMI connection to the TV or a TOSLINK to a Onkyo receiver. The HR24-500 is TOSLINK to a Sony receiver and all are network connected


----------



## bjamin82

betterdan said:


> I am going to try unplugging my ethernet cable and watch The Apprentice tonight. It always has drop outs so I'll see what happens in about 10 minutes when it starts. For the people who said it fixed the drop outs by unplugging the network connection, did you have to reboot the box or not after unplugging the cable?


Any Luck?



RAD said:


> I just must be lucky since I don't have this issue on the HR21-100, HR22-100 HR23-700 and HR24-500 that I use regularly. The HR22-100 and HR23-700 are connected via HDMI to the TV. The HR21-100 is used with either the HDMI connection to the TV or a TOSLINK to a Onkyo receiver. The HR24-500 is TOSLINK to a Sony receiver and all are network connected


Are they on national software releases or CE's?


----------



## bases1616

bjamin82 said:


> Any Luck?
> 
> Are they on national software releases or CE's?


I have the H23-600 and I am getting a lot of audio dropouts. I have had too many to count while watching ESPN HD tonight. I turn off the DD and it seems to fix the problem. I hope the new national release fixes the problem. It has taken forever to get over to the southeast. It started rolling out 2 months ago.

It sounds like it is mostly the national releases.


----------



## betterdan

Well no luck. I got 5 audio dropouts in just the first 9 minutes after disconnecting the network cable. I went ahead and hooked it back up.
This is starting to suck more than Richard Simmons Sweatin to the Oldies.


----------



## seern

The Masters the last 2 days had a lot of audio dropout. At times it was hard to follow the commentary because you would keep losing key words.


----------



## kbtv

betterdan said:


> I am going to try unplugging my ethernet cable and watch The Apprentice tonight. It always has drop outs so I'll see what happens in about 10 minutes when it starts. For the people who said it fixed the drop outs by unplugging the network connection, did you have to reboot the box or not after unplugging the cable?


FYI: The dropouts did not disappear until I restarted the receiver (HR20-700) with the network cable disconnected (I restarted from the setup menu).


----------



## tkrandall

Last night about 11 pm Eastern I watched a little bit of ESPN sportscenter and I was getting audio dropouts about once a minute on average. HR20-700 is hooked up to Onkyo receiver via HDMI, and likewise to the TV. Very annoying, as the Onkyo receiver makes a loud mechanical "click" anytime the audio format changes, such as in routine with network programming switches such as programming to commercials, and back to programming. I have not tried turning off DD.


----------



## RAD

bjamin82 said:


> Are they on national software releases or CE's?


CE's


----------



## bjamin82

RAD said:


> CE's


Interesting.


----------



## leprechaunshawn

I took off work to watch The Masters all weekend. ESPN on Thur-Fri was terrible, at least 15-20 drops per hour, and CBS on Sat-Sun was only slightly better. I've only had D* for about 6 months and am beginning to regret the switch from TWC. At least when I called TWC with a problem they tried to fix it. It seems that D* has done nothing.


----------



## housemr

tsduke said:


> I gotta say I'm really getting sick of these dropouts. ESPN has been awful this week. I didn't think I would say this, but I'm getting to the point of switching even if I lose things like NFL ST. This has been going on for over 5 months with no fix. Inexcusable!
> 
> I replaced my Onkyo receiver with a Denon, but still have the dropouts, but I will say the Denon handles them better.
> 
> I don't care who's at fault these dropouts and it's time for Directv to get it corrected! I'm not giving more than a month or 2 and I'm leaving.


ESPN has been the worst for this. It is such bs as i just started having it happen a few weeks ago.

Does anyone notice this hooked up just by hdmi directly to an hd tv?


----------



## Maleman

housemr said:


> ESPN has been the worst for this. It is such bs as i just started having it happen a few weeks ago.
> 
> Does anyone notice this hooked up just by hdmi directly to an hd tv?


Hmmm I should try that as well. I currently have it hooked up via my Onkyo.


----------



## RAD

RAD said:


> I just must be lucky since I don't have this issue on the HR21-100, HR22-100 HR23-700 and HR24-500 that I use regularly. The HR22-100 and HR23-700 are connected via HDMI to the TV. The HR21-100 is used with either the HDMI connection to the TV or a TOSLINK to a Onkyo receiver. The HR24-500 is TOSLINK to a Sony receiver and all are network connected


It appears my luck ran out, watching a recording on Show-HD West of Tudors and heard a drop. I happened to have recording the same exact showing on a HR22-100, HR23-700 and HR24-500 and all three recordings has the audio drop at the same exact place. All three STB's running latest CE code but since their from different manufacture the base code is different.


----------



## texasbrit

RAD said:


> It appears my luck ran out, watching a recording on Show-HD West of Tudors and heard a drop. I happened to have recording the same exact showing on a HR22-100, HR23-700 and HR24-500 and all three recordings has the audio drop at the same exact place. All three STB's running latest CE code but since their from different manufacture the base code is different.[/QUOTE
> ...so the drop is coming from the source...


----------



## GenTso

I read the first few pages, but I didn't see anyone specifically say what they mean by "audio dropout." 

I've been experiencing problems with audio on voice tracks ... like I'll be watching a program and people are talking at a reasonable volume compared to background music or noises, but occasionally I notice that people talking can barely be heard over the background noise. 

For me, the audio dropout is the decrease in volume on a voice track, usually from the center channel speaker. But I don't think it's an issue with that speaker since it never happens when watching Blu-Rays.

Is this similar to what others are experiencing?


----------



## gphvid

Sounds like a PCM lock/unlock issue. When it unlocks, it mutes and then unmutes when it relocks. That would be a source issue if it is across all receivers/DVRs.


----------



## bjamin82

I haven't tried this my self... but has anyways noticed any drops when playing HD On demand content or HD pay per view?


----------



## brucegrr

GenTso said:


> I read the first few pages, but I didn't see anyone specifically say what they mean by "audio dropout."
> 
> I've been experiencing problems with audio on voice tracks ... like I'll be watching a program and people are talking at a reasonable volume compared to background music or noises, but occasionally I notice that people talking can barely be heard over the background noise.
> 
> For me, the audio dropout is the decrease in volume on a voice track, usually from the center channel speaker. But I don't think it's an issue with that speaker since it never happens when watching Blu-Rays.
> 
> Is this similar to what others are experiencing?


Well, this discussion has become so broad I suspect that an audio dropout could be just about anything.... 

Originally.......when the discussion first started.... an audio dropout is a short period of time where there is no audio.. The dropouts are random.

I don't think your problem is this problem. This problem is NO sound at all for a short period of time. (sometimes just a blink, sometimes a second or two.)

Bruce


----------



## shendley

Though I have noticed audio drops with both of these, the problem has been _much_ less pronounced with HD On Demand.



bjamin82 said:


> I haven't tried this my self... but has anyways noticed any drops when playing HD On demand content or HD pay per view?


----------



## modeboy

I have the audio dropouts... seems like it happens on HGTV to me a lot... And I tested the whole TV volume (where my HDMI cable is going) vs. stereo (where my optical cable is going), and the TV does NOT have the dropout issue. My receiver is an Onkyo.

Jason


----------



## tkrandall

by "dropout" I mean a random instananeous and short interruption of the audio signal that causes my Onkyo receiver (receiving and passing HDMI to the TV) to lose the sound track for maybe less than a second or so and to also go through the loud mechanical clicking as the format information is lost and then re-set/re-gained. HR20-700


----------



## brucegrr

tkrandall said:


> by "dropout" I mean a random instananeous and short interruption of the audio signal that causes my Onkyo receiver (receiving and passing HDMI to the TV) to lose the sound track for maybe less than a second or so and to also go through the loud mechanical clicking as the format information is lost and then re-set/re-gained. HR20-700


I don't notice the mechanical clicking (but that may be because I am hard of hearing) but the rest of your definition is exactly what I am experiencing.

For the first time in a good while, I watched TV using the TV speakers connected via analog rca connectors. Not one audio dropout. I was watching ESPN and ESPN always has the dropouts. I am so used to PTI and Around the Horn having dropouts that I would be shocked if they WEREN'T there.

Bruce


----------



## housemr

my wife just emailed me saying that our abc has been horrible this morning to the point where she couldnt follow anything on there but then flipped to our off air antenna and it was fine. 

also, we compared snl from this past weekend, both on dvr, from antenna to directv locals and the directv locals have a lot of audio dropouts. this should prove, i would think that this is directv causing the issue and not the audio or directv receivers.

edit we are watching our locals through the am21 off air turner (i think i got the number correct)


----------



## sigma1914

brucegrr said:


> ...
> 
> For the first time in a good while, I watched TV using the TV speakers connected via analog rca connectors. Not one audio dropout. I was watching ESPN and ESPN always has the dropouts. I am so used to PTI and Around the Horn having dropouts that I would be shocked if they WEREN'T there.
> 
> Bruce


I was shocked last night at ESPN HD...watched the entire documentary about Iverson's trial and had ZERO dropouts.


----------



## BKC

*Be sure to call/email multiple times *


----------



## tkrandall

brucegrr said:


> I don't notice the mechanical clicking (but that may be because I am hard of hearing) but the rest of your definition is exactly what I am experiencing.
> 
> For the first time in a good while, I watched TV using the TV speakers connected via analog rca connectors. Not one audio dropout. I was watching ESPN and ESPN always has the dropouts. I am so used to PTI and Around the Horn having dropouts that I would be shocked if they WEREN'T there.
> 
> Bruce


The clicking is internal to the Onkyo's circuitry, I suspect it's output circuitry to the speaker system (I have 5.1). It happens anytime a feed goes from surround to just regular stereo or what have you. Not related to dropouts other than being an indicator a dropout has happened.


----------



## tsduke

tkrandall said:


> The clicking is internal to the Onkyo's circuitry, I suspect it's output circuitry to the speaker system (I have 5.1). It happens anytime a feed goes from surround to just regular stereo or what have you. Not related to dropouts other than being an indicator a dropout has happened.


This is where my Denon is better than my Onkyo that I replace. The Denon doesn't do that and I at least get a cleaner dropout.


----------



## betterdan

My Onkyo receiver doesn't click. The audio just drops off and after a second or two it comes back on.


----------



## lkatzeff

I had my HR20 replaced with HR23. For the last 3 days, all my audio drops and video freezes stopped for now


----------



## tsduke

lkatzeff said:


> I had my HR20 replaced with HR23. For the last 3 days, all my audio drops and video freezes stopped for now


I did that in February. At first I thought it was better, but it's not.


----------



## bjamin82

BKC said:


> *Be sure to call/email multiple times *


Twitter works too!


----------



## sigma1914

I had ESPN HD on for 2 hours today & no dropouts...nice!


----------



## BKC

bjamin82 said:


> Twitter works too!


Better yet, the whole world can see it and I bet they won't like that much......... :lol:


----------



## hdfan1

housemr said:


> my wife just emailed me saying that our abc has been horrible this morning to the point where she couldnt follow anything on there but then flipped to our off air antenna and it was fine.
> 
> also, we compared snl from this past weekend, both on dvr, from antenna to directv locals and the directv locals have a lot of audio dropouts. this should prove, i would think that this is directv causing the issue and not the audio or directv receivers.
> 
> edit we are watching our locals through the am21 off air turner (i think i got the number correct)


I have noticed the same problem with WKEF (Dayton ABC) several times this past week. I just watched a show from the DVR from last night and the audio dropouts are really bad. All other channels are fine but that one channel is having issues and it looks like the issues continue tonight.


----------



## tsduke

My lastest reply from Directv..
Thank you for your recent correspondence. We appreciate your patience concerning the audio drop on your HD DVR receivers. 

We forwarded your information to our Engineering Department and they advised us they are currently working toward a solution; however, they could not provide an estimated date of when the issue would be resolved. 

At DIRECTV we strive to provide the finest in satellite television entertainment and outstanding customer service. If you have any additional concerns, please contact us at 1-866-785-5535 between the hours of 7:30 AM and 7:30 PM MT.

Sincerely,DIRECTV Customer Advocate Team


----------



## brucegrr

tsduke said:


> My lastest reply from Directv..
> Thank you for your recent correspondence. We appreciate your patience concerning the audio drop on your HD DVR receivers.
> 
> We forwarded your information to our Engineering Department and they advised us they are currently working toward a solution; however, they could not provide an estimated date of when the issue would be resolved.
> 
> At DIRECTV we strive to provide the finest in satellite television entertainment and outstanding customer service. If you have any additional concerns, please contact us at 1-866-785-5535 between the hours of 7:30 AM and 7:30 PM MT.
> 
> Sincerely,DIRECTV Customer Advocate Team


Ah yes, the boilerplate email. 

Bet you feel better now, yes? 

I do hope they are working on it.


----------



## steveholtam

My Onkyo does do the clicking thing when the audio drops out for that second. Actually both of my Onkyo's, different models, have the clicking when the audio drops.


----------



## Rusty_Clown

They replaced my HR-20-700 today for the audio problem. I'll be curious to see if it resolves the issue.


----------



## shendley

I know this isn't the same issue, but I've recently noticed more audio drop outs that can be corrected by replaying, so they're unique to playback. Any thoughts on what this indicates? Is my HR20 beginning to fail?


----------



## Rusty_Clown

Mine was a signal issue. I would have the problem both watching live and on replays. If I backed up it would fail in the same spot repeatedly. My other HR20-700 would not fail at the same spot. Whether I was plugged into my Onkyo receiver or not made no difference, nor did it matter if I used component or HDMI for my output.


----------



## aldamon

This happens to me all of the time on my HR20. The problem is currently driving me nuts during the Lakers/Thunder game. If I rewind the show after a dropout, the dropout doesn't happen again in the same spot.


----------



## lkatzeff

Week 2 with HR23 in place of HR20. No audio drops.


----------



## betterdan

There were so many dropouts on my recording of last nights Apprentice that I almost just deleted it since I couldn't hear 1/4 of the words being said. I am getting sick of this


----------



## mrcon0728

I have two Onkyo's that do the exact same thing.


----------



## hens67

Here is my story...

Had the HR20 and had dropouts...fussed at DTV and they finally sent me a replacement unit...the HR21...still having the issue on live & dvr's material over numerous channels.

Running all sound using a HDMI through a Sony surround sound.

Where are we at on this issue? Anybody got DTV to issue credits to account yet?


----------



## shendley

For me, there are clearly two different types of audio drops I'm dealing with: 1) audio drops that aren't in the recording but in the playback - jump back a few seconds and the audio is back, and 2) audior drops that are in the recording - jump back and few seconds and the audio is still missing. For the past couple of weeks I've noticed the generic problem getting significantly worse and then noticed that it was primarily the first sort of audio drops that were increasing. I did a simple restart on the machine a few days ago and have only observed 1 audio drop that was a function of playback since then. The other audio drops are still there, though. Last night I counted about 6, I think, in Sunday night's Tudors.


----------



## BKC

hens67 said:


> Here is my story...
> 
> Had the HR20 and had dropouts...fussed at DTV and they finally sent me a replacement unit...the HR21...still having the issue on live & dvr's material over numerous channels.
> 
> Running all sound using a HDMI through a Sony surround sound.
> 
> Where are we at on this issue? Anybody got DTV to issue credits to account yet?


Call and raise hell, they might give you 3 months of Showtime or 6 months of free HD. Don't be afraid to ask.


----------



## Jaspear

BKC said:


> Call and raise hell, they might give you 3 months of Showtime or 6 months of free HD. Don't be afraid to ask.


What a great way to satisfy an upset customer. Give them even more channels with the same annoying problem. What a deal!


----------



## hens67

They took care of me.... : )

mere people need to call and complain to escalate this thing so it gets fixed


----------



## BKC

Jaspear said:


> What a great way to satisfy an upset customer. Give them even more channels with the same annoying problem. What a deal!


I know! :lol:


----------



## CrownSeven

Currently _trying_ to watch NatGeo (12:44 AM CST) and I just went through a 10 minute stretch of constant drop outs - from one to the next. My audio receiver was going nuts.

It finally resolved itself. DirecTV will be getting a call from me in the morning.

This is frackin ridiculous.


----------



## Mark Walters

Watching Celtics-Heat and the audio dropout occurred when they were previewing the halftime show. I decided to check my other receiver and rewind to the part and the audio cut out in the same place. One is an HR22 and the other is an HR23. Sounds like it isn't a receiver issue. I'm sure most of you know that, but I wonder could it be a multi switch issue? Or is it really an issue with D*'s HD channels?


----------



## veryoldschool

Mark Walters said:


> Watching Celtics-Heat and the audio dropout occurred when they were previewing the halftime show. I decided to check my other receiver and rewind to the part and the audio cut out in the same place. One is an HR22 and the other is an HR23. Sounds like it isn't a receiver issue. I'm sure most of you know that, but I wonder could it be a multi switch issue? Or is it really an issue with D*'s HD channels?


Why would a multi-switch give you an audio dropout without loss of video too?


----------



## Mark Walters

veryoldschool said:


> Why would a multi-switch give you an audio dropout without loss of video too?


That's a very good point...


----------



## wavemaster

We had Dish hooked up a month ago for comparison. I have been told so many times here that it is the "source" and not D's fault it got old. 

D* has been here twice now about it and we got a full clean bill of health on the system and installation each time. D* had me working with their "Engineering Group" for three weeks on it. NEVER one time did they admin an issue.

Well we have yet to see any drop outs on the Dish system. So if it is the source as I have been told over and over again, why is the source ONLY picking on D*?


----------



## veryoldschool

wavemaster said:


> We had Dish hooked up a month ago for comparison. I have been told so many times here that it is the "source" and not D's fault it got old.
> 
> D* has been here twice now about it and we got a full clean bill of health on the system and installation each time. D* had me working with their "Engineering Group" for three weeks on it. NEVER one time did they admin an issue.
> 
> Well we have yet to see any drop outs on the Dish system. So if it is the source as I have been told over and over again, why is the source ONLY picking on D*?


Sounds like Dish has better MPEG-4 encoders.


----------



## Carl Spock

That this problem is still out there astounds me.

- Audio drop-outs in record have been a continuing problem with the HR series since Day 1.

- In general, they've gotten less as the HR series has matured.

- They come back when the system is in flux as a new satellite is coming online and tend to go away when the system is stable and not changing.

- They are the worse on DirecTV than Dish Network and practically non-existent on any cable system with which I'm familiar.

How DirecTV can continue to claim they are a exclusively a source problem is beyond me. Since they seemingly know how to make them go away, I'm sure they also know the problem isn't always at the source. Yes, some dropouts are source related; I'm pretty sure that is the case for dropouts on live broadcasts from my local Fox affiliate. Dropouts on ESPN are not. Since ESPN has been plagued by dropouts for years, it could be a compatibility issue between ESPN and DirecTV. Maybe that's how they get by saying it's source related. Sorry, but that's a big *NO*. Dish has figured it out. Comcast has figured it out. Charter has figured it out. DirecTV, you can, too.


----------



## wavemaster

veryoldschool said:


> Sounds like Dish has better MPEG-4 encoders.


So it's not the source now?


----------



## wavemaster

Carl Spock said:


> That this problem is still out there astounds me.
> 
> - Audio drop-outs in record have been a continuing problem with the HR series since Day 1.
> 
> - In general, they've gotten less as the HR series has matured.
> 
> - They come back when the system is in flux as a new satellite is coming online and tend to go away when the system is stable and not changing.
> 
> - They are the worse on DirecTV than Dish Network and practically non-existent on any cable system with which I'm familiar.
> 
> How DirecTV can continue to claim they are a exclusively a source problem is beyond me. Since they seemingly know how to make them go away, I'm sure they also know the problem isn't always at the source. Yes, some dropouts are source related; I'm pretty sure that is the case for dropouts on live broadcasts from my local Fox affiliate. Dropouts on ESPN are not. Since ESPN has been plagued by dropouts for years, it could be a compatibility issue between ESPN and DirecTV. Maybe that's how they get by saying it's source related. Sorry, but that's a big *NO*. Dish has figured it out. Comcast has figured it out. Charter has figured it out. DirecTV can, too.


All very "Logical" there Mr Spock.


----------



## veryoldschool

wavemaster said:


> So it's not the source now?


Not all have been the source, but some sure have and even with these, the "poor" source caused the MPEG-4 encoders to "trip".
There seem to be two major suppliers of MPEG-4 encoders and I think Harmonic is used by DirecTV more than the other supplier. 
Dish may have gone with the other supplier. :shrug:


----------



## wavemaster

veryoldschool said:


> Not all have been the source, but some sure have and even with these, the "poor" source caused the MPEG-4 encoders to "trip".
> There seem to be two major suppliers of MPEG-4 encoders and I think Harmonic is used by DirecTV more than the other supplier.
> Dish may have gone with the other supplier. :shrug:


Well it's only been 3 1/2 weeks to be able to compare, but I have not seen a single drop on Dish, while D's continues.

So you believe it is the "Bad Source" that "trips" up the D boxes? But nobody else's boxes? Sounds like CS spin, you should be on their phone banks.

Now if I could just Marry D*'s video with Dish's Audio and channel selection I would have a really nice system.


----------



## veryoldschool

wavemaster said:


> So you believe it is the "Bad Source" that "trips" up the D boxes? But nobody else's boxes? Sounds like CS spin, you should be on their phone banks.


I have first hand experience with bad source, from my locals.
Sometimes their OTA has the same problems.
Sometimes their OTA doesn't and my DirecTV locals do.
"The box" is in the uplink center, not on my end.
I can't get SpeedTV on anything but the SAT, so I can't see what their source is like, but they've been known to have problems.
As the broadcast engineer explained it to me: there can be corrupted/missing bits in the audio feed that aren't noticeable with MPEG-2. Transcoding this to MPEG-4 causes the encoder to "hang" on these and either give us the brriipps or now they've blanked these out and we just get the dropouts instead.
While upgrading/changing the MPEG-4 encoders will improve this "I think", if/when the source is really bad, changing the encoder may not resolve all of them.


----------



## Dolly

I used to never have audio drop outs, but had that sound that posters kept posting about in here. Sorry I forget exactly how they spelled the name of that sound :blush: Now I no longer have that sound, but I do have the audio drop outs


----------



## I WANT MORE

Dolly said:


> I used to never have audio drop outs, but had that sound that posters kept posting about in here. Sorry I forget exactly how they spelled the name of that sound :blush: Now I no longer have that sound, but I do have the audio drop outs


That's exactly what I am experiencing now. They have replaced the Bbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppppp with no audio.
Tried to watch House last night and several times I had no idea what was said. Local Fox Chanel.


----------



## Carl Spock

Make sure you post that in this sub-forum:

HD Local Broadcast Issues

I posted my issues with my local Fox yesterday.


----------



## MadManNBama

Dropouts are something I've noticed since a fall 2008 firmware update which has not been fixed since that point. Also, my HR20-700 is often very slow to recognize button inputs which was not the case when I purchased it back in 2007.

Basically, this seems to be a sat or DTV issue that we'll have to get used too. It doesn't represent a deal breaker, but it does give us room to complain. I know these HD signals are complicated with all the 5.1 audio channels flying through space, so I think we need to cut DTV a little slack on these issues. 

The engineers are working as hard as they can to keep everyone happy with lots of HD channels and mpeg 4. Trust me, getting all of this to work isn't easy at all.


----------



## crawdad62

I WANT MORE said:


> That's exactly what I am experiencing now. *They have replaced the Bbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrpppppppppppp with no audio.*
> Tried to watch House last night and several times I had no idea what was said. Local Fox Chanel.


So you're saying you were having a noise or pop before the audio went out or that noise was the only audio problem you encountered? I've never had any distortion (either with audio or video when it happens) just a nice clean dropout of audio.


----------



## I WANT MORE

crawdad62 said:


> So you're saying you were having a noise or pop before the audio went out or that noise was the only audio problem you encountered? I've never had any distortion (either with audio or video when it happens) just a nice clean dropout of audio.


Used to be a bbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppp now just a clean dropout of audio for a couple of seconds.


----------



## Zyeox

I am getting a lot of audio dropouts no matter what channel I am on. I know I have been watching a lot of playoff hockey and on VS it's horriable it happens at least 10 to 20 times a game. I am not exaggerating either. They need to fix this asap. I know it isn't just me I asked my father and he is having the same problem.


----------



## Jared701

Has anyone started to get a long shhhhhhhh loud sound today? I don't know if this is what people considered the briip sound or not. It's happened 2 times in the last 24 hours. It sounds basically like if you changed to a tv channel that didn't exist that sound but a little higher pitched and much louder than anything else that is coming out. It lasts about 3 seconds then goes away. It is MUCH more annoying than the audio dropouts because of how loud it is.


----------



## marquitos2

My is the same, not to many times but I get them too.


----------



## Mark Walters

NBA TV HD 216 is having a ridiculous number of audio dropouts...unbelievable


----------



## Rocko62580

brucegrr said:


> Yeah I just called Onkyo. I have a HT-R550. No chip repair for this model.
> 
> Onkyo support must have been trained by Directv support:
> 
> 1. Change audio cable
> 2. Reset receiver
> 3. Reset DVR
> 4. Use TV for sound
> 
> Not sure what else I expected.
> 
> I bought my receiver in May 0f 2007.
> 
> I have resigned myself to this being just the way it is. I have other choice but Directv or Dish (or antenna or nothing)and since I want to watch baseball Directv is it.
> 
> Kinda like being married. I am very happy with my wife 99% of the time. It is the other 1% though that drives me crazy.
> 
> Bruce


I just called Onkyo for my TX-SR605. Some guy with a nasty New Jersey accent started yelling at me when I questioned him as to why some of the Onkyo receivers are being repaired/recalled but mine isn't. "Sir, this isn't Onkyo's issue, it's Direct TV's issue." At least Onkyo admits there is a problem but they are placing blame 100% on Direct TV. They must have gotten a lot of calls about this, and decided that they don't want to be responsible for the issue, even if it is Onkyo's issue.


----------



## betterdan

Ok I tried something the other night. I had a recording that had audio drop outs so I switched it to stereo audio instead of dolby and where it would get a big drop out before with dolby now got a very small one at the same exact point with stereo. With stereo it would last a millisecond it seemed and with dolby on it would last maybe 1-2 seconds. This is with my Onkyo receiver. So the drop outs are there with both it's just that dolby enabled makes my receiver take longer to recover it seems.


----------



## hyde76

I was hoping for some odd reason that the Audio dropout problem was somehow linked to the problems, whatever they were, with D10. Turns out that they were not. With today's HD launch, dropouts are fast and furious from both Travel HD and MSNBC HD, both from D12. Whatever is causing this problem, it's ridiculous and should be addressed by someone at DTV.


----------



## je4755

Zyeox said:


> I know I have been watching a lot of playoff hockey and on VS it's horriable it happens at least 10 to 20 times a game.


I intend to replace my Yamaha receiver with a Denon AVR-3311 next month (when it is supposed to ship) and see if there is any improvement regarding frequency of audio drop outs. In this regard, there were several drop outs during last night's Flyers-Canadiens game on Versus.


----------



## BKC

Rocko62580 said:


> I just called Onkyo for my TX-SR605. Some guy with a nasty New Jersey accent started yelling at me when I questioned him as to why some of the Onkyo receivers are being repaired/recalled but mine isn't. "Sir, this isn't Onkyo's issue, it's Direct TV's issue." At least Onkyo admits there is a problem but *they are placing blame 100% on Direct TV. *They must have gotten a lot of calls about this, and decided that they don't want to be responsible for the issue, even if it is Onkyo's issue.


That's because it IS 100% DTV's problem.


----------



## Jaspear

betterdan said:


> Ok I tried something the other night. I had a recording that had audio drop outs so I switched it to stereo audio instead of dolby and where it would get a big drop out before with dolby now got a very small one at the same exact point with stereo. With stereo it would last a millisecond it seemed and with dolby on it would last maybe 1-2 seconds. This is with my Onkyo receiver. So the drop outs are there with both it's just that dolby enabled makes my receiver take longer to recover it seems.


I've noticed the same thing. In PCM there is a brief "glitch" whenever there would be a drop out in Dolby. This is not a Dolby problem, it's just more noticeable in Dolby.


----------



## celticpride

Sad to see you guys are still having audio dropouts,I couldnt handle that anymore after about a year of waiting for the problem to be solved,i finally switched to verizon fios last month. I havent had any audio problems with verizon and i'm still using my onkyo 805 receiver that i used when i had directv now to get me a tivo premiere HD XL with 150 hours recording capability and i'll be all set!!:hurah: P.S. I really hope directv solves this problem soon for you''all.


----------



## Scott in FL

Just to add my experience watching my locals recorded OTA. I've noticed the audio drop outs since last Fall, and learned to live with them. However, the past two episodes of The Big Bang Theory which I dvr'd OTA using my HR20-700 were very bad. So bad that I had to repeatedly back up the recording to hear what was said.

When I back up and replay, the audio is intact. I listen through a stereo with audio fed from the HR20's left/right stereo outputs (RCA jacks).

I always watch recorded locals received OTA on my HR20 (not off the satellite). All of the locals have audio drop outs.

My local CBS affiliate uses a Tandberg MPEG-2 encoder.


----------



## tkrandall

Rocko62580 said:


> I just called Onkyo for my TX-SR605. Some guy with a nasty New Jersey accent started yelling at me when I questioned him as to why some of the Onkyo receivers are being repaired/recalled but mine isn't. "Sir, this isn't Onkyo's issue, it's Direct TV's issue." At least Onkyo admits there is a problem but they are placing blame 100% on Direct TV. They must have gotten a lot of calls about this, and decided that they don't want to be responsible for the issue, even if it is Onkyo's issue.


I have the same model TX-SR605. What IS annoying about the Onkyo is the loud clicking (electromechanical relay type switching sound emitting from the receiver, not the speakers) and interruption of sound whenever the programming audio format changes, be that a drop out or just going from DD formatted programming to a non DD formatted commercial, and then back again. I wish it did not have those annoying audible relay clicks and momentary loss of audio with each format change or dropout. But this is normal for the box: http://www.onkyousa.com/faqs_detail.cfm?detail=1&id=280


----------



## hyde76

tkrandall said:


> I have the same model TX-SR605. What IS annoying about the Onkyo is the loud clicking (electromechanical relay type switching sound emitting from the receiver, not the speakers) and interruption of sound whenever the programming audio format changes, be that a drop out or just going from DD formatted programming to a non DD formatted commercial, and then back again. I wish it did not have those annoying audible realy clicks and momentary loss of audio with each format change or dropout. But this is normal for the box: http://www.onkyousa.com/faqs_detail.cfm?detail=1&id=280


I have (had) the same clicking issue with my JVC RX-D302, which I love (BTW). I made the clicking issue go away by changing the receiver from Auto surround to one of the other settings. With Auto, the click was very loud but when another surround setting is chosen, a DD Signal will override whatever the setting but the receiver does it silently (no clicking sound) which is considerably more appealing but still does not solve the issue.


----------



## housemr

So did anyone that has a receiver that has hdmi inputs, i dont, compare by running optical/coaxial to their receiver vs say hdmi to their receiver and see if it still happens.


----------



## Spoffo

housemr said:


> So did anyone that has a receiver that has hdmi inputs, i dont, compare by running optical/coaxial to their receiver vs say hdmi to their receiver and see if it still happens.


I've run it both ways to my Onkyo 804, and there's no difference. I've had bad spells both ways. At least I don't have the added aggravation of a relay clicking. On this receiver, the only relay sound is the main one for the speakers at power-up.

I can watch the front panel display of this receiver and see the dropouts when they come through: The display will be showing "Dolby D." Then when there's a dropout, it switches momentarily to something like "dialogue norm +3" which is an indication that it's re-training on the dolby stream (it's the same screen you get when you switch the receiver from another source to a dolby one) then back to "Dolby D" a second later as the sound returns.

This all seems very consistent with the idea that the source of the problem is signal glitches that are magnified in transcoding to MPEG4, but that doesn't explain why I can go weeks without hearing one dropout and then be hit with a blitz of them on several channels as I was last night.


----------



## markrw58

Like most everyone posting here I am just loving the audio dropouts to the point I am thinking about either replacing my receiver or looking elsewhere for my service, DISH/Uverse. Can anyone offer suggestions as to a replacement AV receiver that does not have this problem?


----------



## pdh0490

has anyone had sound drop out on comdey cen i know the sound will be gone for a long time then come back and be gone for hours on in


----------



## jacques 99

Does anyone have any NEW information on the dropouts? I heard a birrp today for the first time in months. I'm not sure which is worse.

I'm running a HR23-700 with an AVR Denon 1610, but also have an HR20 directly hooked to and LCD monitor. The dropouts happen at the same time on both units but more noticeable on the unit with the Denon 5.1. I've turned the audio to PCM on the HR20 - that should take care of that unit's problems, but I need to find a solution for the main unit.

I've tried:
1) different dvrs
2) new LNBs
3) new multiswitch
4) replaced most of the run

I recently received a call from the 'office of the president.' The representative was very polite but informed me that my problem is not common to my area (Birmingham, AL) but that this has been an ongoing issue in other markets...

Nothing resolved yet, but here is hoping.


----------



## Maleman

jacques 99 said:


> Does anyone have any NEW information on the dropouts? I heard a birrp today for the first time in months. I'm not sure which is worse.
> 
> I'm running a HR23-700 with an AVR Denon 1610, but also have an HR20 directly hooked to and LCD monitor. The dropouts happen at the same time on both units but more noticeable on the unit with the Denon 5.1. I've turned the audio to PCM on the HR20 - that should take care of that unit's problems, but I need to find a solution for the main unit.
> 
> I've tried:
> 1) different dvrs
> 2) new LNBs
> 3) new multiswitch
> 4) replaced most of the run
> 
> I recently received a call from the 'office of the president.' The representative was very polite but informed me that my problem is not common to my area (Birmingham, AL) but that this has been an ongoing issue in other markets...
> 
> Nothing resolved yet, but here is hoping.


I am convinced as many people are that its the cable/satellite providers issue and not ours. I have had the same issues with cable companies etc. They always put the blame on some other component that I had etc. Almost to the point I believed them. Then I came to my senses. Its the providers fault/issue and not ours.


----------



## hdtvluvr

I haven't had any issues with the latest firmware (...DE) and D* provided locals or other channels. Using a Yamaha RXV-3900. I had many issues prior to this latest NR.


----------



## Spoffo

markrw58 said:


> Like most everyone posting here I am just loving the audio dropouts to the point I am thinking about either replacing my receiver or looking elsewhere for my service, DISH/Uverse. Can anyone offer suggestions as to a replacement AV receiver that does not have this problem?


If you track back trough this thread, you'll find that no A/V receiver is immune to this. The problem is that a break in the dolby bitstream causes the receiver to have to re-acquire the dolby, just the same as if you'd switched sources on the receiver or changed channels with your satellite tuner. Some receivers are quicker and/or quieter in doing this, but they're all affected at least some of the time.

Most of the debate/speculation here is over the cause of these discontinuities - the originating station, the DirecTv uplink of that signal, the Directv receiver or DVR decoding the dolby out of the overall MPEG 4 signal and various permutations of these.


----------



## markrw58

Thanks for the information Spoffo, I am not eager to change so I will just put up with it for a little longer and hope the resolve this issue.


----------



## Rocko62580

Spoffo said:


> If you track back trough this thread, you'll find that no A/V receiver is immune to this. The problem is that a break in the dolby bitstream causes the receiver to have to re-acquire the dolby, just the same as if you'd switched sources on the receiver or changed channels with your satellite tuner. Some receivers are quicker and/or quieter in doing this, but they're all affected at least some of the time.
> 
> Most of the debate/speculation here is over the cause of these discontinuities - the originating station, the DirecTv uplink of that signal, the Directv receiver or DVR decoding the dolby out of the overall MPEG 4 signal and various permutations of these.


That's a very good explanation of the problem. Like others I called the Direct TV office of the president and we went through all the pain full steps, resets, replacement receivers, etc, and guess what? I STILL HAVE THE AUDIO DROP OUTS! I find it irritating that direct TV pretends to not know about this issue, as my rep says "I will definitely forward this to engineering." I asked when I will hear back, and she said, "There is no ETA for a solution on this, so you will probably not hear from us."


----------



## jacques 99

hdtvluvr said:


> I haven't had any issues with the latest firmware (...DE) and D* provided locals or other channels. Using a Yamaha RXV-3900. I had many issues prior to this latest NR.


What's the software you are running? I was under the impression that the latest software was 0x03A8. Or are we talking about something different?


----------



## veryoldschool

jacques 99 said:


> What's the software you are running? I was under the impression that the latest software was 0x03A8. Or are we talking about something different?


Unless you have a 24, there is no software "fix" coming for this, since most of this is on the uplink side.
This best you can get them to do is this: " my rep says "I will definitely forward this to engineering." " and the engineering is the network broadcast center, since they're the ones in charge of this.


----------



## jacques 99

But with an HR24 there is a fix? 

My rep has "forwarded this engineering" and "the office of the president"...for whatever that is worth.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacques 99 said:


> But with an HR24 there is a fix?
> 
> My rep has "forwarded this engineering" and "the office of the president"...for whatever that is worth.


I'm working directly with El Segundo and the 24.
This specific problem doesn't happen live, or going to the drive. Playback from the drive or using MRV to the HR24, or even using the buffer has this problem.
This is different than all the other receivers.
I wouldn't bother with the office of the president, but if you want them to forward to engineering, what the heck.
I'm in contact with them about this and hope to see this get fixed "soon", but can't say when.


----------



## Scott in FL

VOS, is there any hope of getting a solution for the HR20? Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but I read it that you're concentrating on the HR24.

Sure would like to see the problem on my HR20 resolved.

Thanks for your help and effort on this.


----------



## veryoldschool

Scott in FL said:


> VOS, is there any hope of getting a solution for the HR20? Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but I read it that you're concentrating on the HR24.
> 
> Sure would like to see the problem on my HR20 resolved.
> 
> Thanks for your help and effort on this.


The HR20 doesn't have "this issue", but has the uplink problem, which is some of the reason the 24 only now is being looked at. During testing the dropouts were assumed to be the "normal crap", but I found they weren't. A show can be recorded on both a HR20 & HR24, and only the 24 has this.
Turning off Dolby [sucks] can get this to stop/be better.


----------



## BKC




----------



## mis3

markrw58 said:


> Like most everyone posting here I am just loving the audio dropouts to the point I am thinking about either replacing my receiver or looking elsewhere for my service, DISH/Uverse. Can anyone offer suggestions as to a replacement AV receiver that does not have this problem?


Don't bother switching to u-verse to try to improve the problem. I had u-verse for 9 months and the drop-outs were much worse for me (so was picture quality). Their message boards on uverseusers.com have their own audio drop-outs threads. From what I can tell, it appears that nearly all receivers on nearly all carriers have the problem.

The only exception to this rule is that on some channels, it is worse, and only on digital sound. The fact that not everyone has a receiver and not everyone watches the same channels are why some complain more than others.


----------



## veryoldschool

mis3 said:


> Don't bother switching to u-verse to try to improve the problem. I had u-verse for 9 months and the drop-outs were much worse for me (so was picture quality). Their message boards on uverseusers.com have their own audio drop-outs threads. From what I can tell, it appears that nearly all receivers on nearly all carriers have the problem.
> 
> The only exception to this rule is that on some channels, it is worse, and only on digital sound. The fact that not everyone has a receiver and not everyone watches the same channels are why some complain more than others.


Keeping to MPEG-2 seems to work better, so Fios could have an edge.


----------



## jacques 99

hopefully the new software will help...


----------



## veryoldschool

jacques 99 said:


> hopefully the new software will help...


FWIW: I emailed asking about it and they are still replying to me [a good sign :lol:], so while it isn't "the fix" they're still interested in fixing it and wanting me to work with them to get it resolved.


----------



## iainleaver

veryoldschool said:


> I'm working directly with El Segundo and the 24.
> This specific problem doesn't happen live, or going to the drive. Playback from the drive or using MRV to the HR24, or even using the buffer has this problem.
> This is different than all the other receivers.
> I wouldn't bother with the office of the president, but if you want them to forward to engineering, what the heck.
> I'm in contact with them about this and hope to see this get fixed "soon", but can't say when.


This DOES sound like the problem i have with my HR20-700.

I can be watching a HD show with DD - for example NASCAR all star race on speed this last saturday

When I pause the show i get long drop outs making it unwatchable unless i catch back up to real time

Sometimes recorded Hi def show have the same issue

Iain


----------



## veryoldschool

iainleaver said:


> This DOES sound like the problem i have with my HR20-700.
> 
> I can be watching a HD show with DD - for example NASCAR all star race on speed this last saturday
> 
> When I pause the show i get long drop outs making it unwatchable unless i catch back up to real time
> 
> Sometimes recorded Hi def show have the same issue
> 
> Iain


I can't duplicate that here with my HR20-700, and haven't heard others in the test group have it either, where with the 24, I do..

Perchance do you have MRV?
Can you watch a recording from the HR20-700 on another receiver and not have these?


----------



## Scott in FL

Just played back two shows on my HR20-700 received and recorded this evening OTA from our local CBS affiliate which I know uses the Tandberg MPEG-2 HD encoder: Two and a Half Men followed by Big Bang Theory. The audio drop outs were severe. I had to constantly back up to hear what they said (the second pass is always OK). 

Now watching the next show CSI Miami live. Absolutely no drop outs.

The problem occurs occasionally on our other locals, but CBS is by far the worst. Only on playback.


----------



## BKC

At times my OTA through my HR20 is unwatchable because of dropouts, yet bypass the receiver and it's fine.


----------



## veryoldschool

For those with MRV, see if these recordings have dropouts when MRV'd to another receiver. If they don't then the file on the drive isn't the source.
There are several causes/reasons for this "one problem".
most of mine on all my receivers are a source problem, be it from who's sending it to DirecTV or how DirecTV is converting this to MPEG-4.
MPEG-2 doesn't have this conversion so OTA is either from the station or could be a drive playback issue.
The drive playback [not MRV] is what the HR24 currently has. 
MRV to another receiver doesn't have it and MRV from a good recording on another DVR does have it also.


----------



## BKC

I wish they would sh*t can ALL the frills until they can at least provide the basic stuff like sound.


----------



## iainleaver

veryoldschool said:


> I can't duplicate that here with my HR20-700, and haven't heard others in the test group have it either, where with the 24, I do..
> 
> Perchance do you have MRV?
> Can you watch a recording from the HR20-700 on another receiver and not have these?


I don't have MRV


----------



## veryoldschool

iainleaver said:


> I don't have MRV


That makes it a bit harder to breakdown where a problem is.
Dual recordings of the same show is one thing.
Do both recording have the same problems at the same place?
I did this and found one DVR had them and the other didn't. This showed it wasn't in the SAT feed.
Because I have MRV, I could then use the "good recording" to playback on the "bad receiver", which showed it was the receiver.
Next step was to play the recording from the "bad receiver" on the good one and it didn't have a problem. This showed the file recorded on the drive wasn't bad.


----------



## hdtvluvr

BKC said:


> I wish they would sh*t can ALL the frills until they can at least provide the basic stuff like sound.


yeah - Give us a choice to turn TV Apps OFF


----------



## MISpat

I guess it is specific to area because I just watched Two and a Half Men on DVR and there were no audio dropouts. Ironically, it's this very show where I first started noticing the dropouts (but that was in syndication on a different local channel)

Mine are slightly different though... they happen again if I back up.


----------



## iainleaver

It give the appearance at least of being the receiver

As stated, I can be watching a show in Hi def & everythig is ok

I pause the show and then start watching from the buffer and the dropouts start almost instantly (short and long ones - sometimes it stays dropped out until i pause and restart again)

If i fast forward to real time the drop out stop.

Other time a recorded Hi def show will have the same drop outs. Stopping the show and reboot in the receiver will sometimes fix the problem - the drop out which were present before the reboot will have gone

This does not happen every-time but it happens often enough that we are not really watching recorded Hi Def shows anymore - we try to watch shows we care about at the time they are broadcast (its taken some time to get used to watching tv like this again!)

I have seriously considered changing providers but I have an RV which we use a receiver in when we camp - I can't do this with anyone else!

Iain


----------



## Scott in FL

MISpat said:


> I guess it is specific to area because I just watched Two and a Half Men on DVR and there were no audio dropouts.
> 
> Mine are slightly different though... they happen again if I back up.


I think it does have to do with my CBS affiliate. Their Tandberg encoder or perhaps reception errors must cause problems when shows are played back from my hard drive. I never see them live, and they do not repeat when I back up and replay.

On the other hand, I just watched 10 hours of HBO played back from the DVR (The Pacific). I don't recall a single drop out.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> Some of these "frills" can be used to narrow down where some problems are.


Like you said, this started with the software update that had double play in it.

I would be willing to bet the vast majority of subscribers don't even know they have DD and could care less about MRV.....


----------



## trdrjeff

I haven't noticed dropouts near as much lately. It was most noticable on Speed and Fox but I don't think there was a single one this past weekend.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> Guess it would all depend on what you think "this" is.
> If you're referring to problems with live TV, then no.
> If you're referring to problems you don't see live, but do as you go into the buffer, then maybe.
> This mostly has been related to Dolby 5.1.
> If a subscriber "doesn't even know" they have DD, then the simple "fix" is to turn it off.
> MRV has been a good tool to narrow down a problem with the HR24, that isn't in my other DVRs.
> 
> If anyone can go through some good troubleshooting steps and then post the results here, if I can understand it, then I'll forward it on and see if it can get piggybacked on to the work I'm involved with.


"This" has been explained about a million times in this thread alone.

"This" is audio dropouts that started with the fall software national release but then you already know that. Again, on mine it's live or recorded and can be repeated. It's there with or without DD on. At times (like lately) it's also on OTA run through the HR20 but not there if I use the antenna straight to the TV so it's not the station, it's the receiver/software.

You can "Pass it on" if you want, but they've already heard it many times from me.....


----------



## housemr

Spoffo said:


> I've run it both ways to my Onkyo 804, and there's no difference. I've had bad spells both ways. At least I don't have the added aggravation of a relay clicking. On this receiver, the only relay sound is the main one for the speakers at power-up.
> 
> I can watch the front panel display of this receiver and see the dropouts when they come through: The display will be showing "Dolby D." Then when there's a dropout, it switches momentarily to something like "dialogue norm +3" which is an indication that it's re-training on the dolby stream (it's the same screen you get when you switch the receiver from another source to a dolby one) then back to "Dolby D" a second later as the sound returns.
> 
> This all seems very consistent with the idea that the source of the problem is signal glitches that are magnified in transcoding to MPEG4, but that doesn't explain why I can go weeks without hearing one dropout and then be hit with a blitz of them on several channels as I was last night.


I agree. I am so paranoid about this happening a lot during an action movie. Also, ESPN can get really bad with their live feed.

To compare I recorded greys for my wife last week off locals through dtv and off my 9.99 rca antenna (through the am21) and the dtv locals had some skips but then she switched to the antenna recording and nothing for the whole 2 hours in hd.


----------



## veryoldschool

housemr said:


> I agree. I am so paranoid about this happening a lot during an action movie. I recorded greys for my wife last week off locals through dtv and off my 9.99 rca antenna (through the am21) and the dtv locals had some skips but then she switched to the antenna recording and nothing for the whole 2 hours in hd.


Unlike the thread starter, this does seem to be the reported uplink encoder problem. Reporting this to DirecTV and getting the CSR to send an email to the network broadcast center, is about all you can do. I've done this and sometimes it has helped. I even called [once] one of the special numbers they gave me and requested them to look into it and had it resolved 45 mins later.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> You're describing the same thing as when I first posted in this thread, and the most likely cause is from the SAT feed, since you have it live.
> You may simply have a bad receiver, if you have all this with everything you've listed and what you can compare with your TV.
> You want to blame the software, fine, that's your choice.


----------



## BKC

There were many that had the same problem as I do. Some are gone to another service some have PMed me with EXACTLY the same thing I have. One more time, it came with last fall's national release, it got somewhat better but not fixed a couple releases ago. I was told by DTV while I was working with them (lol) the fix would be in the next software release but of course it wasn't. It's been seven months of this with the exception of the one release during the winter it hasn't changed and it started on the exact day my receiver got the release. 

I think it would be best if you and I didn't discuss this anymore. You think I'm dumber than a fence post and I think you are a know-it-all blowhard that tries to look important on an internet message board. Maybe you could start your own thread on the subject and leave this one alone? lol


----------



## Maleman

BKC said:


> There were many that had the same problem as I do. Some are gone to another service some have PMed me with EXACTLY the same thing I have. One more time, it came with last fall's national release, it got somewhat better but not fixed a couple releases ago. I was told by DTV while I was working with them (lol) the fix would be in the next software release but of course it wasn't. It's been seven months of this with the exception of the one release during the winter it hasn't changed and it started on the exact day my receiver got the release.
> 
> I think it would be best if you and I didn't discuss this anymore. You think I'm dumber than a fence post and I think you are a know-it-all blowhard that tries to look important on an internet message board. Maybe you could start your own thread on the subject and leave this one alone? lol


I agree that the audio issues definitely occurred after that release. I never had issues before that. I am glad someone else agrees. It's a real shame that nobody takes blame.  At least fix it somehow.


----------



## mjbvideo

Ditto for me.....audio dropouts started in the Double Play release. 
I've become something of a lemming regarding these POS boxes. I have learned to live with mediocrity because I'm tired of fighting and complaining...I just don't see any apparent improvement with the basic operation. Instead the powers that be at DTV continue to release 'features' that eat up resources. This reminds me of a very old laptop that I had with 128 MB of RAM .... I loaded Windows XP on it and it was slow as molasses. It worked Ok with an older OS - Windows 98. 
If these old boxes can't handle all their new features then DirecTV should recall them and give us all new HR24's.


----------



## jacques 99

mjbvideo said:


> Ditto for me.....audio dropouts started in the Double Play release.
> I've become something of a lemming regarding these POS boxes. I have learned to live with mediocrity because I'm tired of fighting and complaining...I just don't see any apparent improvement with the basic operation. Instead the powers that be at DTV continue to release 'features' that eat up resources. This reminds me of a very old laptop that I had with 128 MB of RAM .... I loaded Windows XP on it and it was slow as molasses. It worked Ok with an older OS - Windows 98.
> If these old boxes can't handle all their new features then DirecTV should recall them and give us all new HR24's.


That is another issue...from this thread...I understand that the HR24 has its own issues. I'm afraid of asking for an HR24 and getting into a new set of problems. On the other hand, it might me feel like they are doing something.


----------



## BKC

veryoldschool said:


> [*gee wasn't this where you started and had them deleted*?]


I never had anything deleted, that was you in a completely different thread not this thread. If you remember right it was when another poster came in that thread and said you were coming off as an ass telling people they were not having the problems they were describing.

You won't see me asking someone to delete anything. I kind of like seeing barbs exchanged :lol: I don't think you could find a tamer forum than this one except maybe a church forum.


----------



## ghontz1

I have notice all or most of the post are related to the dvrs.I have an H23/600 and it does the same thing.I have a sony 6.1 surround audio system and you can see it on the display when it drops out. But i also notice a split second freeze in the picture when audio drops out.all my signals hi 80s and low 90s with good los.I had this receiver since 07/09 it has always been this way. I don't think it is our equipment. I think it is on D*s end. And they have not figured out the problem.


----------



## ejhuzy

Just tried to watch my recording of the series finale of 24. Audio dropouts every 5-10 seconds for the whole two hours. This was on a HR20-700. I also had it recorded on my old SD Tivo and it was worse there.

No weather issues last night locally. So, does this sound like a problem with my local FOX affiliate? This was over the SAT feed, not OTA.


----------



## veryoldschool

ejhuzy said:


> Just tried to watch my recording of the series finale of 24. Audio dropouts every 5-10 seconds for the whole two hours. This was on a HR20-700. I also had it recorded on my old SD Tivo and it was worse there.
> 
> No weather issues last night locally. So, does this sound like a problem with my local FOX affiliate? This was over the SAT feed, not OTA.


Yes Fox has been bad for many. Since you're having the problem with two different receivers and HD & SD, it pretty much points to a station problem.


----------



## MISpat

ghontz1 said:


> i also notice a split second freeze in the picture when audio drops out.


Mine does the same thing when I have an audio dropout. The video freeze is so quick that you won't notice it unless you're looking for it... it took me MONTHS to notice the slight video freeze during the audio dropout.


----------



## ejhuzy

veryoldschool said:


> Yes Fox has been bad for many. Since you're having the problem with two different receivers and HD & SD, it pretty much points to a station problem.


That's what I figured, but what do I do about it? Complain to my local affiliate? Tell D*? Or just hope they get better?


----------



## BKC

Thank you!


----------



## tsduke

Take it for what it's worth, but I have been told that this is not a software issue with the recievers, but an issue with the software on Directv's broadcast side. Supposedly the brrrrrrrrp was a result of packet loss and Directv's first fix for that was minimizing it to this audio dropout we experience now.

The engineering department I got this info from wasn't the broadcast group, but the guy did contact me several time as he was gathering info. He also said he did not know when it when be fixed. Part of the problem for us is that it's mostly just us enthusiasts complaining. This group just isn't big enough to matter so it seems.


----------



## BKC

Could very well be, I just want it fixed whatever is causing it just like everybody else


----------



## BKC

BKC said:


> Thank you!


This post looks pretty stupid now that the others have been deleted. :lol:


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Actually, I'll second that. I'd like to get back to topic, or perhaps it would be better to start a new thread altogether.


----------



## BKC

I would love for this to stay on topic.


----------



## gilviv

Hey V.O.S. remember me from the *BRIIIIPPPP* thread a while back.... As you mentioned to me back then going thru the motions of reporting a problem, then emailing them with it, and they taking the time to call you back helps in getting issues fastracked or at the least taken more seriously. It is almost like they get moving on something once they have enough complaints.
The quote below is what D* told me to the letter about the audio dropouts:


tsduke said:


> Take it for what it's worth, but I have been told that this is not a software issue with the recievers, but an issue with the software on Directv's broadcast side. Supposedly the brrrrrrrrp was a result of packet loss and Directv's first fix for that was minimizing it to this audio dropout we experience now.
> 
> The engineering department I got this info from wasn't the broadcast group, but the guy did contact me several time as he was gathering info. He also said he did not know when it when be fixed. Part of the problem for us is that it's mostly just us enthusiasts complaining. This group just isn't big enough to matter so it seems.


It's like they are kinda sorta "yes we are aware of it" working on the problem.... but until they get an overwhelming number of calls from ticked-off customers it will not get fixed.
Hey it use to be BRRRRIIIPPPS, At least I haven't seen one of those in a while. Now it's Audio Dropouts, who needs sound when you have beautiful digital HD images! You GO D*

It's good that these problems get discussed here, but I am not so sure D* is in tune with ALL its customer base, certainly not US here. In addition, those customers who are not "enthusiasts" rarely see/hear a problem on their TVs and figure when they do, that _someone is probably working on that_ or don't notice it at all UNTIL they too become someone who couldn't hear what Jack Bauer said in the final minutes of 24's finale! an enthusiast!

CALL,CALL,CALL,CALL, tell them all to CALL! All kidding aside, D* seems to be motivated by the number of calls/emails they receive concerning a problem.

_A little pressure sometimes works better than a ton of force_


----------



## BKC

gilviv said:


> Hey V.O.S. remember me from the *BRIIIIPPPP* thread a while back.... As you mentioned to me back then going thru the motions of reporting a problem, then emailing them with it, and they taking the time to call you back helps in getting issues fastracked or at the least taken more seriously. It is almost like they get moving on something once they have enough complaints.
> The quote below is what D* told me to the letter about the audio dropouts:
> 
> It's like they are kinda sorta "yes we are aware of it" working on the problem.... but until they get an overwhelming number of calls from ticked-off customers it will not get fixed.
> Hey it use to be BRRRRIIIPPPS, At least I haven't seen one of those in a while. Now it's Audio Dropouts, who needs sound when you have beautiful digital HD images! You GO D*
> 
> It's good that these problems get discussed here, but I am not so sure D* is in tune with ALL its customer base, certainly not US here. In addition, those customers who are not "enthusiasts" rarely see/hear a problem on their TVs and figure when they do, that _someone is probably working on that_ or don't notice it at all UNTIL they too become someone who couldn't hear what Jack Bauer said in the final minutes of 24's finale! an enthusiast!
> 
> *CALL,CALL,CALL,CALL, tell them all to CALL*! All kidding aside, D* seems to be motivated by the number of calls/emails they receive concerning a problem.
> 
> _A little pressure sometimes works better than a ton of force_


AMEN!!

I have got the same thing from them a couple times.


----------



## veryoldschool

gilviv said:


> Hey V.O.S. remember me from the *BRIIIIPPPP* thread a while back.... As you mentioned to me back then going thru the motions of reporting a problem, then emailing them with it, and they taking the time to call you back helps in getting issues fastracked or at the least taken more seriously. It is almost like they get moving on something once they have enough complaints.
> The quote below is what D* told me to the letter about the audio dropouts:
> 
> It's like they are kinda sorta "yes we are aware of it" working on the problem.... but until they get an overwhelming number of calls from ticked-off customers it will not get fixed.
> Hey it use to be BRRRRIIIPPPS, At least I haven't seen one of those in a while. Now it's Audio Dropouts, who needs sound when you have beautiful digital HD images! You GO D*
> 
> It's good that these problems get discussed here, but I am not so sure D* is in tune with ALL its customer base, certainly not US here. In addition, those customers who are not "enthusiasts" rarely see/hear a problem on their TVs and figure when they do, that _someone is probably working on that_ or don't notice it at all UNTIL they too become someone who couldn't hear what Jack Bauer said in the final minutes of 24's finale! an enthusiast!
> 
> CALL,CALL,CALL,CALL, tell them all to CALL! All kidding aside, D* seems to be motivated by the number of calls/emails they receive concerning a problem.
> 
> _A little pressure sometimes works better than a ton of force_


I sure do and have been trying to promote the same actions in this thread.
I have to think the problem doesn't have an easy fix. I know they're aware of it, though without a total fix, may be just trying to get by until one gets developed.
Some of these can/do get fixed as some of us have seen. I don't know if they swap a box, just to a reset, or what.

As I've read through this thread, I do see posts that look like they may be something else. These would be those that don't have these problems when watching live, but do using the buffer or watching a recording.
These also could be broken down into whether the always repeat using replay, or they don't repeat when using replay.


----------



## trdrjeff

Why is VOS so against people complaining about a legit problem?


----------



## veryoldschool

trdrjeff said:


> Why is VOS so against people complaining about a legit problem?


I'm not and want everyone to complain about it. I'm only trying to suggest where to complain, or who to, that will have some affect.


----------



## betterdan

I have the same problem as BKC. Live or recorded shows have audio drop outs and if I rewind, the drop outs are still there everytime. Turning off DD still shows the drop outs but my receiver handles it better with less of an interruption.


----------



## bmachia

Like many here, I’ve been putting up with this for months and Months. My problems occur on two HR20-700’s both running the current National Release.

In my case, I see two problems.
The first is an OTA signal dropout. The audio drops out, followed in a second or two with pixelization or blocking. This is nothing more than signal interruption or loss.

The second is coming from my Sat feed. The DD 5.1 feed is being interrupted and has to re-sync, thus the drop-out. If I switch off the DD the drop-out duration is much shorter, but it’s still there.

So, what’s interrupting the DD 5.1 and how hard is it to track down? (MONTHS?)
Bill, WM3N


----------



## BKC

bmachia said:


> Like many here, I've been putting up with this for months and Months. My problems occur on two HR20-700's both running the current National Release.
> 
> In my case, I see two problems.
> The first is an OTA signal dropout. The audio drops out, followed in a second or two with pixelization or blocking. This is nothing more than signal interruption or loss.
> 
> The second is coming from my Sat feed. The DD 5.1 feed is being interrupted and has to re-sync, thus the drop-out. If I switch off the DD the drop-out duration is much shorter, but it's still there.
> 
> So, what's interrupting the DD 5.1 and how hard is it to track down? (MONTHS?)
> Bill, WM3N


It's time to flood Ellen with emails, seven months is beyond ridiculous. Don't let them tell you they haven't heard of the problem and mention this thread and it should save several email exchanges getting to the point. lol They will call you and act all concerned and probably tell you a fix is in the works and should be released in about two weeks. Maybe mention they have been saying that for several months now. Above all, don't give up. 

[email protected]


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> I have the same problem as BKC. *Live *or recorded shows have audio drop outs and if I rewind, the drop outs are still there everytime. Turning off DD still shows the drop outs but my receiver handles it better with less of an interruption.


This would suggest the problem is in the feed. 
Does this happen with every HD channel? 
If so, then there is something more going on, since not every channel has a bad feed.
If not, call and report the channels that are doing this.


----------



## gilviv

BKC said:


> It's time to flood Ellen with emails, seven months is beyond ridiculous. Don't let them tell you they haven't heard of the problem and mention this thread and it should save several email exchanges getting to the point. lol They will call you and act all concerned and probably tell you a fix is in the works and should be released in about two weeks. Maybe mention they have been saying that for several months now. Above all, don't give up.
> 
> [email protected]


Agreed...........It's time to write an email to Ellen, and call as well, ask for sr. level CSRs or to speak directly to Techs. Unfortunately this is above and beyond a regular CSRs' level no matter what they tell you. Emails will generate a phone call back to you from D*'s Customer resolution dept. or the Advocate team, either way they are upper level personnel and in my experiences with D* they really try to at the least listen to your problem. Maybe not fix it, but at the least document it and pass it on to others that technically understand or confirm that one exists. I have had many call backs from these people just to follow-up on(re: BRRRIIIPPP) from different people. IMHO they are trying, they may not get this fixed for some time but they seem to be genuinly concerned that customers are not happy. Nothing against CSRs, but remember for the most part they are reading off scripts. THEY CAN'T FIX ANYTHING.:nono2:


----------



## Steve Robertson

I just sent Ellen an email what is her postion with D*


----------



## veryoldschool

gilviv said:


> Agreed...........It's time to write an email to Ellen, and call as well, ask for sr. level CSRs or to speak directly to Techs. Unfortunately this is above and beyond a regular CSRs' level no matter what they tell you. Emails will generate a phone call back to you from D*'s Customer resolution dept. or the Advocate team, either way they are upper level personnel and in my experiences with D* they really try to at the least listen to your problem. Maybe not fix it, but at the least document it and pass it on to others that technically understand or confirm that one exists. I have had many call backs from these people just to follow-up on(re: BRRRIIIPPP) from different people. IMHO they are trying, they may not get this fixed for some time but they seem to be genuinly concerned that customers are not happy. Nothing against CSRs, but remember for the most part they are reading off scripts. THEY CAN'T FIX ANYTHING.:nono2:


Motivating one of the Customer Advocate team to champion this for you seems to be the best option.
This was how my locals got improved. Part of the early exchanges had them check with the broadcast center. 
They returned with "we monitored this for 45 mins" and don't see a problem.
If you hear things like this, you need to [nicely] explain how this wouldn't find the problem if it wasn't happening during this 45 min timeframe.
Be nice, and try to show them as much "what, where, & when" as you can and keep them working for you.


----------



## veryoldschool

Steve Robertson said:


> I just sent Ellen an email what is her postion with D*


VP customer Service.


----------



## betterdan

veryoldschool said:


> This would suggest the problem is in the feed.
> Does this happen with every HD channel?
> If so, then there is something more going on, since not every channel has a bad feed.
> If not, call and report the channels that are doing this.


It's not every HD channel but a lot of them. I once was watching the Apprentice via Directv locals HD and got so many drop outs so I switched over to the same local but OTA and it was fine.
Fox, Speed, HD locals, and a few others give me a lot of audio drop outs. I have never gotten an audio dropout on an SD channel that I can remember.

This all started happening like others have said, about the time they brought out double play. They have had way more than enough time to fix this and it is getting pretty ridiculous.


----------



## BKC

Amen.


----------



## betterdan

I just sent an email off to Ellen.


----------



## BKC

Bless you. Keep at it.


----------



## camo

TNT during the Suns /Laker series is having about 3 dropouts per 15 minutes. It is a problem that needs to be addressed. I have a HR-24 and 20 and both experience it.


----------



## betterdan

I just got a call back from Directv about the email I sent. I talked to a nice guy named Kody and he told me the engineers were aware of a audio drop problem but not in my area. He said he noticed in my email I mentioned DBS Talk and he was aware of the site and asked if anyone in my area had the same audio problems. I told him I had no idea where anyone was from but there are lots and lots of people complaining about this.

I went through and told him all the troubleshooting I have done and he wants me to try listening to the audio straight to the tv from the receiver and leaving the audio receiver out of the picture. He said if they have to they will replace the Directv receiver even though I told him I seriously doubt that's the problem. If they do replace it I only want the HR24 and will tell them that.
I am supposed to test the audio straight to the tv over the weekend and either call them back or if he doesn't hear from me by Tuesday he will call me back. 
At least it is encouraging that they care enough to call me even though I am still not confident they can resolve my problem soon as it has been going on so long and for so many others with no solution yet. We shall see...


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> I just got a call back from Directv about the email I sent. I talked to a nice guy named Kody and he told me the engineers were aware of a audio drop problem but not in my area. He said he noticed in my email I mentioned DBS Talk and he was aware of the site and asked if anyone in my area had the same audio problems. I told him I had no idea where anyone was from but there are lots and lots of people complaining about this.
> 
> I went through and told him all the troubleshooting I have done and he wants me to try listening to the audio straight to the tv from the receiver and leaving the audio receiver out of the picture. He said if they have to they will replace the Directv receiver even though I told him I seriously doubt that's the problem. If they do replace it I only want the HR24 and will tell them that.
> I am supposed to test the audio straight to the tv over the weekend and either call them back or if he doesn't hear from me by Tuesday he will call me back.
> At least it is encouraging that they care enough to call me even though I am still not confident they can resolve my problem soon as it has been going on so long and for so many others with no solution yet. We shall see...


I had a similar thing. Since I wasn't using the AVR, they didn't bring that up. I had several receivers and pointed out it wasn't the receiver(s).
You just need to "work with them" so they can go down their list of troubleshooting/isolation.
Their last step was to send out: a Sr. Trainer, local manager, & engineer, to inspect my system end to end. I saved a few recordings to show them it and they may have asked me to check this or that while they were here.
Finally they had checked off all the things they could think of and made the phone call to the network engineer. Things improved later.


----------



## BKC

betterdan said:


> I just got a call back from Directv about the email I sent. I talked to a nice guy named Kody and he told me the engineers were aware of a audio drop problem but not in my area. He said he noticed in my email I mentioned DBS Talk and he was aware of the site and asked if anyone in my area had the same audio problems. I told him I had no idea where anyone was from but there are lots and lots of people complaining about this.
> 
> I went through and told him all the troubleshooting I have done and he wants me to try listening to the audio straight to the tv from the receiver and leaving the audio receiver out of the picture. He said if they have to they will replace the Directv receiver even though I told him I seriously doubt that's the problem. If they do replace it I only want the HR24 and will tell them that.
> I am supposed to test the audio straight to the tv over the weekend and either call them back or if he doesn't hear from me by Tuesday he will call me back.
> At least it is encouraging that they care enough to call me even though I am still not confident they can resolve my problem soon as it has been going on so long and for so many others with no solution yet. We shall see...


I went through all of that too. They are trying to make you feel important and busy. Keep at it though.


----------



## betterdan

BKC said:


> I went through all of that too. They are trying to make you feel important and busy. Keep at it though.


That kind of sounds like my wife. I had no idea she worked for Directv... :grin:


----------



## BKC




----------



## jacques 99

betterdan said:


> I just got a call back from Directv about the email I sent. I talked to a nice guy named Kody and he told me the engineers were aware of a audio drop problem but not in my area. He said he noticed in my email I mentioned DBS Talk and he was aware of the site and asked if anyone in my area had the same audio problems. I told him I had no idea where anyone was from but there are lots and lots of people complaining about this.
> 
> I went through and told him all the troubleshooting I have done and he wants me to try listening to the audio straight to the tv from the receiver and leaving the audio receiver out of the picture. He said if they have to they will replace the Directv receiver even though I told him I seriously doubt that's the problem. If they do replace it I only want the HR24 and will tell them that.
> I am supposed to test the audio straight to the tv over the weekend and either call them back or if he doesn't hear from me by Tuesday he will call me back.
> At least it is encouraging that they care enough to call me even though I am still not confident they can resolve my problem soon as it has been going on so long and for so many others with no solution yet. We shall see...


This is EXACTLY what happened to us. I'm in Birmingham and had a fourth service call from DirecTV this past Friday. The technician agreed that these dropouts are MPEG4 related and is likely a problem on the uplink side (Colorado for us). He will report it. To make me 'feel' better he exchanged my receivers for two hr24s. He thought that the hr24s may have circuitry that minimizes the dropout - they are still there but less noticeable. We'll have to see in the coming weeks as I won't be home for a week or so.

The HR24s look nice...

If we ALL email ellen and ask to replace receivers and tech calls then PERHAPS there will be a monetary reason for DirecTV to put more man hours on this problem...I think that's the only way it will work - if the cost of dealing with customers are greater than the dropouts.


----------



## veryoldschool

jacques 99 said:


> If we ALL email ellen...


I just got a call from them and while it was about something else, I tried to explain this problem and suggest things for them to do to try to improve this. My comments/ideas I asked to be passed up to the supervisor to help streamline the process for customers emailing about this with national channels. Locals still need to be handled on a case by case basis, but I was trying to get them realize if this is with a national channel, that the focus on getting the broadcast center involved sooner. "Maybe" if those are this level compare notes, they'll see the problem quicker and use their leverage to have it resolved sooner.
Everyone with this problem, swamp Ellen with emails. Bury them with them, then they might get the idea.


----------



## Rocko62580

Just sent Ellen another email. Lets all flood her inbox.

Here it is:

On January 2, 2010 I contacted you about the problem with audio dropouts. I was told this issue was going to be looked at.

I told you there was a large number of people complaining about this in the DBStalk forums.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167900

People are calling tech support and being told to reboot their receivers, etc. This of course does NOT fix this problem.

I then contacted you a couple weeks ago, as it has been almost 7 months. You guys even went as far as sending me a new receiver. That of course didn't solve the problem. I was told someone will get back to me when there is a solution. This is unacceptable to me.

If there are audio dropouts across a broad spectrum of channels then an individual broadcaster is not the blame. This is either a problem on the head end or a hardware problem. (either the DVR or a combination of the DVR and the audio equipment the customer is using)

I would appreciate being contacted about this.

Thank you for your help.


----------



## veryoldschool

I guess we all have different styles, but while I do tend to be pushy/forceful, I also try to be nice & polite. 
Remember who you're talking to, it isn't their problem or directly within their means to fix it.
They all seemed to really want to help.


----------



## bjamin82

So I did e-mail Ellen last night. I was very polite and just stated the facts. I stated I loved the service, but this issue was unbearable. 

A customer advocate called me first thing this morning. I explained everything to her and then she stated she would call me back. Two hours later, she called me back. Spoke to engineering, asked for detailed information about my receiver type, what channels I usually watch... ect. She then called back just now. Engineering stated to her there is an issue, and they are aware. They don't have it pinpointed exactly yet, but they are pretty sure it is a software issue. She asked if they could contact me for more information or to test something out, I of course said yes. 

So at least they acknowledged there is an issue.


----------



## veryoldschool

bjamin82 said:


> So at least they acknowledged there is an issue.


You're dealing with a much better "CSR" at this level, who does have more "power".


----------



## Rocko62580

bjamin82 said:


> So I did e-mail Ellen last night. I was very polite and just stated the facts. I stated I loved the service, but this issue was unbearable.
> 
> A customer advocate called me first thing this morning. I explained everything to her and then she stated she would call me back. Two hours later, she called me back. Spoke to engineering, asked for detailed information about my receiver type, what channels I usually watch... ect. She then called back just now. Engineering stated to her there is an issue, and they are aware. They don't have it pinpointed exactly yet, but they are pretty sure it is a software issue. She asked if they could contact me for more information or to test something out, I of course said yes.
> 
> So at least they acknowledged there is an issue.


That's a good response. My rep wouldn't acknowledge the problem.


----------



## taylorhively

I've been dealing with audio drop outs for about a year now.
The only thing that resolves the problem is to switch the audio output from Dolby Digital to PCM. The drop outs still occur, but it doesn't cause my Onky receiver to 'lose' the DD stream, switch to PCM, then switch back (about 3 seconds.) In most cases you really can't tell there is an audio drop out when in PCM mode unless you know what to listen for.
I think this is why many people aren't aware of the issue.

I've tried both HDMI and Optical, no difference. The only thing I can think to do is to try a different receiver, a non Onkyo.

It doesn't happen with every channel. Some it happens 4 times per hour, some never. SyFy and USA are channels that do it frequently. HBO, never.
I recently got a new HR24, new SWiM 16, and new Dish/LNB as part of the whole home DVR upgrade. So all new equipment, that pretty much eliminates any existing equipment problems except the coax, which I doubt is the issue. By the way, 4 of these DVRs are connected to the same receiver (via an HDMI switch) and all of them have the issue. The 5th is on a TV in the bedroom (no receiver) and of course I don't hear the problem there because I'm not using DD.
I have tried connecting directly to the receiver to eliminated the HDMI switch. No change (it's not the switch.)

The one common thing to people with audio drop outs seems to be Onkyo receivers which are very sensitive to the DD bit stream interruptions. The DD drops for a brief second, the receiver auto-switches to PCM, then switches back a few seconds later.

I've considered trying to find devices that convert optical to HDMI or vis versa and may try to "clean up" stream problems. Then again getting a new reciever that is less sensitive to this would be a better move. The Onkyo isn't very old (or cheap) so I'm reluctant.
I have a Denon at work in my QA lab, so I have one I can try.

I'd love to see if anyone has found any resolution.

These receivers should be sending out silent DD audio instead of dropping the audio bit stream altogether. That's what we do on our Roku players.


----------



## Rocko62580

taylorhively said:


> I've been dealing with audio drop outs for about a year now.
> The only thing that resolves the problem is to switch the audio output from Dolby Digital to PCM. The drop outs still occur, but it doesn't cause my Onky receiver to 'lose' the DD stream, switch to PCM, then switch back (about 3 seconds.) In most cases you really can't tell there is an audio drop out when in PCM mode unless you know what to listen for.
> I think this is why many people aren't aware of the issue.
> 
> I've tried both HDMI and Optical, no difference. The only thing I can think to do is to try a different receiver, a non Onkyo.
> 
> It doesn't happen with every channel. Some it happens 4 times per hour, some never. SyFy and USA are channels that do it frequently. HBO, never.
> I recently got a new HR24, new SWiM 16, and new Dish/LNB as part of the whole home DVR upgrade. So all new equipment, that pretty much eliminates any existing equipment problems except the coax, which I doubt is the issue. By the way, 4 of these DVRs are connected to the same receiver (via an HDMI switch) and all of them have the issue. The 5th is on a TV in the bedroom (no receiver) and of course I don't hear the problem there because I'm not using DD.
> I have tried connecting directly to the receiver to eliminated the HDMI switch. No change (it's not the switch.)
> 
> The one common thing to people with audio drop outs seems to be Onkyo receivers which are very sensitive to the DD bit stream interruptions. The DD drops for a brief second, the receiver auto-switches to PCM, then switches back a few seconds later.
> 
> I've considered trying to find devices that convert optical to HDMI or vis versa and may try to "clean up" stream problems. Then again getting a new reciever that is less sensitive to this would be a better move. The Onkyo isn't very old (or cheap) so I'm reluctant.
> I have a Denon at work in my QA lab, so I have one I can try.
> 
> I'd love to see if anyone has found any resolution.
> 
> These receivers should be sending out silent DD audio instead of dropping the audio bit stream altogether. That's what we do on our Roku players.


The resolution is to email Ellen until her inbox is full.


----------



## BKC

They told me months ago they knew there was a problem and thought it was software. I'm glad they still know there is a problem.  Great job guys, lets keep at it.


----------



## betterdan

Ok I tried using the audio from the HR20 Directv receiver straight to the tv bypassing the Onkyo audio receiver using HDMI. The drop outs are much better and it is exactly the same as turning off DD on the HR20. The problem is the tv speakers sound much worse than hooking it up to my Onkyo system of course.
One question, I have DD enabled on the HR20 and the sound is going directly to my Mitsubishi WD52631 DLP tv via HDMI. Is it converting it to PCM? I seriously doubt the tv has a DD decoder in it. Again, the drop outs when hooked up this way sound exactly like when I turn off DD on the HR20 and have the sound going to the Onkyo receiver as PCM.


----------



## Richierich

Well, I have wondered why so many people have been reporting this Audio Dropout Problem and I don't have it but I have HDMI connected to my Samsung LCD and Optical Digital Audio connected to my Denon AVR5803 and that seems to work okay with hardly any problems.

So maybe some Receivers don't decode the DD signal via however people are hooking up their Receivers I don't know but mine is working great and I have hardly ever noticed the problem.

I guess I am fortunate, lucky and have the right combination.


----------



## BKC

I just shot them another email to rattle their cage again. I hope they are getting tired of me.


----------



## betterdan

richierich said:


> Well, I have wondered why so many people have been reporting this Audio Dropout Problem and I don't have it but I have HDMI connected to my Samsung LCD and Optical Digital Audio connected to my Denon AVR5803 and that seems to work okay with hardly any problems.
> 
> So maybe some Receivers don't decode the DD signal via however people are hooking up their Receivers I don't know but mine is working great and I have hardly ever noticed the problem.
> 
> I guess I am fortunate, lucky and have the right combination.


Are you sure DD is turned on in the menu of your Directv receiver? Does your Denon audio receiver show DD on it's display when watching a show in DD?


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> Well, I have wondered why so many people have been reporting this Audio Dropout Problem and I don't have it but I have HDMI connected to my Samsung LCD and Optical Digital Audio connected to my Denon AVR5803 and that seems to work okay with hardly any problems.
> 
> So maybe some Receivers don't decode the DD signal via however people are hooking up their Receivers I don't know but mine is working great and I have hardly ever noticed the problem.
> 
> I guess I am fortunate, lucky and have the right combination.


Rich, I think this comes down to two things:


The channels you watch. I was in the chatroom with a poster here and he asked me about a number of channels he sees this on. Almost every one was a channel I don't watch. So what rightfully bothers him, isn't as big a problem for me.
The AV receivers we use handle these differently. I've got a cheap Sony, which will trip in an instant & recover as quickly, while others have AVRs that don't recover as quickly and magnify the dropout, compared to mine.


----------



## txfeinbergs

^^^ #2, it is definitely #2. Of course, if DirecTV had a clean signal that didn't have these occassional "glitches", the problem would not be there in the first place. I have an Onkyo which seems to take the longest to recover out of all of the receivers. (hence the reason most of the people that have complained in this thread also have an Onkyo). (I have seen some Denon people complaining also).


----------



## sigma1914

txfeinbergs said:


> ^^^ #2, it is definitely #2. Of course, if DirecTV had a clean signal that didn't have these occassional "glitches", the problem would not be there in the first place. I have an Onkyo which seems to take the longest to recover out of all of the receivers. (hence the reason most of the people that have complained in this thread also have an Onkyo). (I have seen some Denon people complaining also).


I agree. I had an Onkyo for 1 day and hated how it would take longer to "click" on to a DD signal when audio drops. On my Yamaha it's very quick when there's drops...literally a half second.


----------



## veryoldschool

txfeinbergs said:


> Of course, if DirecTV had a clean signal that didn't have these occassional "glitches", the problem would not be there in the first place.


!Bingo!


----------



## betterdan

So does anyone know if having DD enabled on my HR20 and the audio going through HDMI straight to my Mitsubishi DLP tv will make the tv decode it as PCM? The tv would have to have a dolby decoder to decode it as DD right? Does any tv do this?
Just trying to figure out why the sound out of the tv is the same as turning DD off on the HR20.


----------



## hyde76

My connection out of my HR20 to my Sony 46V something or other is HDMI and I never have any audio drops on the TV sound. I have a TOS Link cable from the HR20 to my JVC R-301 Receiver and that connection is the problem. I wish my JVC had an HDMI input but it doesn't.


----------



## bigzeto

I just got a new Denon AVR-1910 and I'm noticing the audio dropouts quite frequently. I'm running HDMI from my HR20 to my Denon. I notice the same thing as you guys in regards to DD vs. PCM. When I change the audio settings on the HR20 to PCM, the dropouts are very hard to hear, but it's so annoying when DD is turned on. I didn't seem to notice these dropouts as bad on my old Onkyo, which was running optical from the HR20. I am going to try running optical to my new Denon and see what happens.


----------



## tsduke

bigzeto said:


> I just got a new Denon AVR-1910 and I'm noticing the audio dropouts quite frequently. I'm running HDMI from my HR20 to my Denon. I notice the same thing as you guys in regards to DD vs. PCM. When I change the audio settings on the HR20 to PCM, the dropouts are very hard to hear, but it's so annoying when DD is turned on. I didn't seem to notice these dropouts as bad on my old Onkyo, which was running optical from the HR20. I am going to try running optical to my new Denon and see what happens.


They were twice as bad on my Onkyo 674 than on my new Denon 2310. The Onkyo would click as well.


----------



## je4755

I experience recurrent dropouts on multiple channels (231, 277 and 360 for example) with two Yamaha A/V receivers. Soon expect to replace the Yamahas with Denons -- a 3311 and 1611 (supposedly available mid-month). Based on the above comments, I'm uncertain whether the Denons will ameliorate or worsen the problem.


----------



## ceyancey

I had the same problems with my Onkyo 806 Receiver. My work around was as follows: I connected the HDMI cable from SAT box directly to the TV but connected an Optical Cable from my SAT box directly to my Onkyo Receiver for Audio. No dropouts at all after I made those changes. It sucks to not have my AVR doing everything it's supposed to do by not running my video signal through it, but I could not stomach the audio dropouts another minute. At least now I have my full surround sound via optical, and none of those frustrating audio drops.


----------



## jacques 99

ceyancey said:


> I had the same problems with my Onkyo 806 Receiver. My work around was as follows: I connected the HDMI cable from SAT box directly to the TV but connected an Optical Cable from my SAT box directly to my Onkyo Receiver for Audio. No dropouts at all after I made those changes. It sucks to not have my AVR doing everything it's supposed to do by not running my video signal through it, but I could not stomach the audio dropouts another minute. At least now I have my full surround sound via optical, and none of those frustrating audio drops.


Because these dropouts happen with various brands (Denon, Onkyo, Sony, Yamaha), I think we can conclude that it's not the receiver. While it's true that each receiver may 'reset' or 'hide' the dropouts to a different extent, I think that the problem lies with DTV broadcast uplink and is likely channel specific. PLEASE DO NOT LET DIRECTV OFF THE HOOK - call or email ellen filipiak (email can be found on other posts).

Ceyancey, I can't understand how this connection resolved your dropout issue because if the sound is being controlled by your AVR, then what is the HDMI cable doing? Video only? My experience has been that connection type does not fix the issue. I have it on multiple units...AVR hooked and non.

Maybe when we report the dropouts we should specify:
1) the program
2) channel
3) time with location
4) the time when the dropouts within the program. This may help others that have recorded the same program.


----------



## shendley

Yeah, I find it curious that merely using the opt out to the receiver would help with the audio drops. That's how my system has always been set up (no hdmi inputs in my Panny receiver) and I get the drops.



jacques 99 said:


> Ceyancey, I can't understand how this connection resolved your dropout issue because if the sound is being controlled by your AVR, then what is the HDMI cable doing? Video only? My experience has been that connection type does not fix the issue. I have it on multiple units...AVR hooked and non.


----------



## tsduke

Using optical instead of HDMI does not fix the dropouts for me.


----------



## veryoldschool

tsduke said:


> Using optical instead of HDMI does not fix the dropouts for me.


Me neither


----------



## BKC

ceyancey said:


> I had the same problems with my Onkyo 806 Receiver. My work around was as follows: I connected the HDMI cable from SAT box directly to the TV but connected an Optical Cable from my SAT box directly to my Onkyo Receiver for Audio. No dropouts at all after I made those changes. It sucks to not have my AVR doing everything it's supposed to do by not running my video signal through it, but I could not stomach the audio dropouts another minute. At least now I have my full surround sound via optical, and none of those frustrating audio drops.


This is how I have mine set up and have tons of dropouts.


----------



## betterdan

ceyancey said:


> I had the same problems with my Onkyo 806 Receiver. My work around was as follows: I connected the HDMI cable from SAT box directly to the TV but connected an Optical Cable from my SAT box directly to my Onkyo Receiver for Audio. No dropouts at all after I made those changes. It sucks to not have my AVR doing everything it's supposed to do by not running my video signal through it, but I could not stomach the audio dropouts another minute. At least now I have my full surround sound via optical, and none of those frustrating audio drops.


That's exactly how mine is hooked up and I get audio drop outs. Why would you prefer your video to go through the audio receiver anyways?


----------



## atfree

I've had my set-up that way since I first got an HDTV (HDMI from DVR to TV for video only, optical from DVR to Panasonic Home Theater unit for audio), and have dropouts ALL the time. 

My dropouts are exclusive to HD channels (HGTV, Food, A&EHD, etc)...no drop outs on SD channels at all. 

So, I don't think the set-up affects the drop-outs at all...obviously a D* issue but one they won't (or at least don't like to) admit. I've posted a couple of posts about drop outs on the D* user forums and always get a response from a D* technical rep denying that's it their problem.

Gladly, this is really my only real issue with D* but I still would hope they'd get it fixed...it's going on 2 years now.


----------



## lugnutathome

On BlueRay discs (or the long dead HD DVD) there are HD audio formats that MUST go through the AV receiver for processing but for Sat no need.

Its best audio is DD 5.1 which most HDMI equipped TVs can support now. Hooking up the HDMI direct to the TV and optical to the AV receiver gives one a watch TV only, or a complete AV experience. Plus an extra HDMI port for the video store in a can application that I'm sure will be coming out soon

Don "HDCP:Half Dead Consumer Product" Bolton



betterdan said:


> That's exactly how mine is hooked up and I get audio drop outs. Why would you prefer your video to go through the audio receiver anyways?


----------



## tsduke

betterdan said:


> Why would you prefer your video to go through the audio receiver anyways?


Simplicity. 
Less cables.
OSD from my receiver for volume, setup etc.


----------



## betterdan

Well i called Kody back at Directv and gave him the update about me listening to the audio straight to the tv via HDMI. I told him the drops were still there but less noticeable since the Onkyo receiver takes longer to recover. Still not acceptable.
So he said he checked and there is no trouble in my area so he thinks it has to be my HR20 that's the problem. I told him I didn't think it was but if he wanted to replace it with an HR24 I would go for that. He said he couldn't do that but he could replace it with an older directv box. I told him i didn't want to downgrade since the HR20 seems to be the next best to an HR24 in speed anyways. He said he would try and get me an HR20-700 (I doubt it). I told him I would be calling him back if I still had audio drop outs (which I am fully expecting).
I hope I didn't just screw up and end up getting a crappier used box now. I had to do it though because if I refused they would never look into the problem since they would just say it was my HR20 but I refused to exchange it so they can't do anything further. Of course I will lose all my recordings and that's fine except for one, the HD NET HD Test pattern I saved to calibrate my tv. I see it still comes on Saturdays at 6:30am though so I'll rerecord it I guess.
He said I should be getting the new box by Friday or Saturday. 
To be continued...


----------



## hyde76

atfree said:


> My dropouts are exclusive to HD channels (HGTV, Food, A&EHD, etc)...no drop outs on SD channels at all.


You won't get drop-outs on the SD channels because for the most part, they're not broadcast with a DD signal. Look at your screen and it'll likely say English where on an HD broadcast, it'll say DD. No DD signal, no drops. That's an easy one.

Additionally, I'm with everyone else, HDMI to the TV, Optical to the AVR. The problem lies in the Optical signal being sent to the AVR. As I said a few pages ago, you can avoid the clicking sound by changing your AVR from Auto Surround to something else. Usually, any other setting will be overridden by the DD signal without causing the clicking sound. Try it. I use a JVC AVR and the other brands cannot be that different. The dropout problem from DTV is unforgivable as we're paying for HD service. Half of HD is audio and if the audio is defective, we should not have to pay as much for it.


----------



## hyde76

betterdan said:


> Well i called Kody back at Directv and gave him the update about me listening to the audio straight to the tv via HDMI. I told him the drops were still there but less noticeable since the Onkyo receiver takes longer to recover. Still not acceptable.
> So he said he checked and there is no trouble in my area so he thinks it has to be my HR20 that's the problem. I told him I didn't think it was but if he wanted to replace it with an HR24 I would go for that. He said he couldn't do that but he could replace it with an older directv box. I told him i didn't want to downgrade since the HR20 seems to be the next best to an HR24 in speed anyways. He said he would try and get me an HR20-700 (I doubt it). I told him I would be calling him back if I still had audio drop outs (which I am fully expecting).
> I hope I didn't just screw up and end up getting a crappier used box now. I had to do it though because if I refused they would never look into the problem since they would just say it was my HR20 but I refused to exchange it so they can't do anything further. Of course I will lose all my recordings and that's fine except for one. The HD NET HD Test pattern I saved to calibrate my tv. Does that test signal come on anymore and when?
> He said I should be getting the new box by Friday or Saturday.
> To be continued...


You know as well as we do that it's not "your" HR20 where the problem lies. It's the software upgrade they did a year ago and as of yet, they still have not fixed.


----------



## betterdan

Yes i know, but like I said I basically had to do it otherwise they would just blame the box and me for not exchanging it. They wouldn't look any further into it then because it would look like I'm holding back their troubleshooting. I'm between a rock and a hard place.
Also although Kody was nice he started to get on my nerves when he told me it couldn't be the signal because he doesn't get drop outs with his Directv setup and neither does any of his family. I then told him I don't mean to be rude but I only care about my setup and my problem and I AM getting audio dropouts. He apologized but he still didn't believe me that it has to be Directv's signal. He may start believing it when I call him back after hooking up the new Directv receiver and getting audio drops again, which I fully expect to happen.


----------



## hyde76

without reading back 23 pages or so, has anyone identified which software change to the HD receivers caused the problem in the first place?


----------



## BKC

betterdan said:


> Well i called Kody back at Directv and gave him the update about me listening to the audio straight to the tv via HDMI. I told him the drops were still there but less noticeable since the Onkyo receiver takes longer to recover. Still not acceptable.
> So he said he checked and there is no trouble in my area so he thinks it has to be my HR20 that's the problem. I told him I didn't think it was but if he wanted to replace it with an HR24 I would go for that. He said he couldn't do that but he could replace it with an older directv box. I told him i didn't want to downgrade since the HR20 seems to be the next best to an HR24 in speed anyways. He said he would try and get me an HR20-700 (I doubt it). I told him I would be calling him back if I still had audio drop outs (which I am fully expecting).
> I hope I didn't just screw up and end up getting a crappier used box now. I had to do it though because if I refused they would never look into the problem since they would just say it was my HR20 but I refused to exchange it so they can't do anything further. Of course I will lose all my recordings and that's fine except for one, the HD NET HD Test pattern I saved to calibrate my tv. I see it still comes on Saturdays at 6:30am though so I'll rerecord it I guess.
> He said I should be getting the new box by Friday or Saturday.
> To be continued...


If you think of it, check the software number and write it down if there are no dropouts at first. It will update at night and if you notice dropouts look and see what the software is again. If it's real old software it won't have the dropouts until it updates. Good ammo for when you call back. lol


----------



## BKC

hyde76 said:


> without reading back 23 pages or so, has anyone identified which software change to the HD receivers caused the problem in the first place?


Most of us it was the fall update (Oct.)


----------



## veryoldschool

hyde76 said:


> without reading back 23 pages or so, has anyone identified which software change to the HD receivers caused the problem in the first place?


"None". 
The firmware change was in the encoders and not the decoders.


----------



## mickcris

BKC said:


> Most of us it was the fall update (Oct.)


I have been having this issue since i signed up for directv (almost 2 years ago). At some point last year, it went from being a loud brrrrrrrrrrp noise to just an audio dropout. Not sure if this was due to that software update or something else.


----------



## Davenlr

mickcris said:


> I have been having this issue since i signed up for directv (almost 2 years ago). At some point last year, it went from being a loud brrrrrrrrrrp noise to just an audio dropout. Not sure if this was due to that software update or something else.


If I had to guess, they updated the software in their mpeg4 encoders, and now instead of brrrrrrrrrp, is just cuts the audio off when it resyncs to the video. Since its only mpeg4 channels Ive heard (or not heard) the dropouts on, I really dont think its the receivers or DVRs. The same dropouts appear at the same spots on multiple different brand units, and versions of software on the receiver end.


----------



## betterdan

BKC said:


> If you think of it, check the software number and write it down if there are no dropouts at first. It will update at night and if you notice dropouts look and see what the software is again. If it's real old software it won't have the dropouts until it updates. Good ammo for when you call back. lol


Will do.


----------



## rey_1178

wow. i didn't know this was still going on. i was one of the biggest complainers about this and its been awhile since i experienced a drop out.they don't have a permanent fix for this issue instead of making it less noticeable?


----------



## Rocko62580

hyde76 said:


> You won't get drop-outs on the SD channels because for the most part, they're not broadcast with a DD signal. Look at your screen and it'll likely say English where on an HD broadcast, it'll say DD. No DD signal, no drops. That's an easy one.
> 
> Additionally, I'm with everyone else, HDMI to the TV, Optical to the AVR. The problem lies in the Optical signal being sent to the AVR. As I said a few pages ago, you can avoid the clicking sound by changing your AVR from Auto Surround to something else. Usually, any other setting will be overridden by the DD signal without causing the clicking sound. Try it. I use a JVC AVR and the other brands cannot be that different. The dropout problem from DTV is unforgivable as we're paying for HD service. Half of HD is audio and if the audio is defective, we should not have to pay as much for it.


I agree. I think everyone here should file a complaint with their state attorney general consumer protection office. This will really get Direct TV off their butts. Tell the AG you refuse to pay for service until this is fixed.


----------



## Mark Walters

betterdan said:


> Well i called Kody back at Directv and gave him the update about me listening to the audio straight to the tv via HDMI. I told him the drops were still there but less noticeable since the Onkyo receiver takes longer to recover. Still not acceptable.
> So he said he checked and there is no trouble in my area so he thinks it has to be my HR20 that's the problem. I told him I didn't think it was but if he wanted to replace it with an HR24 I would go for that. He said he couldn't do that but he could replace it with an older directv box. I told him i didn't want to downgrade since the HR20 seems to be the next best to an HR24 in speed anyways. He said he would try and get me an HR20-700 (I doubt it). I told him I would be calling him back if I still had audio drop outs (which I am fully expecting).
> I hope I didn't just screw up and end up getting a crappier used box now. I had to do it though because if I refused they would never look into the problem since they would just say it was my HR20 but I refused to exchange it so they can't do anything further. Of course I will lose all my recordings and that's fine except for one, the HD NET HD Test pattern I saved to calibrate my tv. I see it still comes on Saturdays at 6:30am though so I'll rerecord it I guess.
> He said I should be getting the new box by Friday or Saturday.
> To be continued...


Why not refuse the old refurbished box, that won't fix the issue to begin with, and tell D* you have overwhelming proof this is a legitimate problem and that you don't want to waste anymore time. All the CSR's do is follow a step-by-step troubleshooting guide via a D* manual. This issue needs to get passed the D* CSR's and get to the engineers. This place is a very good source to prove it's a prevailing issue considering it's received close to 40,000 views and soon to be 1000 replies for this topic. This doesn't even include most people who are experiencing this issue who don't even know this site or thread exists.


----------



## Scoobmaster

jacques 99 said:


> Because these dropouts happen with various brands (Denon, Onkyo, Sony, Yamaha), I think we can conclude that it's not the receiver. While it's true that each receiver may 'reset' or 'hide' the dropouts to a different extent, I think that the problem lies with DTV broadcast uplink and is likely channel specific. PLEASE DO NOT LET DIRECTV OFF THE HOOK - call or email ellen filipiak (email can be found on other posts)....


I recently (just over a month ago) bought a Harman Kardon AVR 2600 and am experiencing the issues as described many times over in this thread. So, add Harman Kardon to the list - It is definitely NOT a receiver manufacturer problem. For the record, my 9 year-old JVC HTIB receiver that the H/K just replaced started doing this about a year ago as well (sound familiar with a certain software upgrade to DTV receivers?)

I have a Sony PS3 hooked to my H/K receiver via HDMI as well. After a dozen Blue Ray movies and hundreds of hours of gaming I have had ZERO audio dropouts from it, so the audio receiver is NOT the cause of the problem.

just thought I would add my experience to the list of documented "evidence"


----------



## betterdan

Mark Walters said:


> Why not refuse the old refurbished box, that won't fix the issue to begin with, and tell D* you have overwhelming proof this is a legitimate problem and that you don't want to waste anymore time. All the CSR's do is follow a step-by-step troubleshooting guide via a D* manual. This issue needs to get passed the D* CSR's and get to the engineers. This place is a very good source to prove it's a prevailing issue considering it's received close to 40,000 views and soon to be 1000 replies for this topic. This doesn't even include most people who are experiencing this issue who don't even know this site or thread exists.


Because like I said if I refuse the box and keep my old one the issue won't go any further. If I accept the box and still get audio dropouts (which I fully expect) then that will eliminate the box as an issue and they will be forced to look at the signal.
The guy I spoke to already knows about this place. I can't blame them for wanting to troubleshoot really. I get calls about the phones and computers at work and people trying to tell me what they think is the problem and I still troubleshoot and most of the time they are wrong. I will go along to help Directv troubleshoot just so it can prove to them it isn't the box. 
I really have a feeling they will next try to blame my audio receiver since when I turn DD off on the HR20 you can barely hear the audio drop going to my Onkyo receiver via optical. It is almost non existant. That is not acceptable though as I do not want to have to turn off DD to fix this problem.
When I have DD enabled on the HR20 and listen to audio straight to the tv via HDMI it's the same, barely able to hear a drop although I doubt I'm getting DD out of the tv since it sounds exactly like DD being off to the receiver. I hope that makes sense because I am going to have to explain that to Directv soon I am betting when they try to blame my audio receiver. There is no way to switch to another receiver to rule it out either since I don't have another one.


----------



## wavemaster

We got Dish a few months ago (we still have an active D account with a lot of gear) for a few reasons - audio being the biggest. 

Last night on FOX Boston - Whipeout on D* had a drop every couple minutes the entire two hours which had the wife in my ear the whole time. I'm re-watching the recording on Dish and have not had one yet. 

Any of you cheerleaders want to explain how it isn't D*'s fault? 

D* Great picture - crappy or no sound some of the time.

Dish Good picture - good sound (all the time I have watched)

It is a tough one. Not sure I will keep both for the long haul. In this case D* has been hiding/patching/denying the issue for over two years now. We do not have a D* contract and have been subs for over 10 years now so leaving will be easy/hard.

It would be very reassuring if D* would actually admit the problem and state what solutions they are following to solve it.


----------



## joed32

betterdan: It's not your receiver. The dropouts are there even if you don't use an AV receiver.


----------



## BKC

mickcris said:


> I have been having this issue since i signed up for directv (almost 2 years ago). At some point last year, it went from being a loud brrrrrrrrrrp noise to just an audio dropout. Not sure if this was due to that software update or something else.


If they are the same issue I have had it that long too. For me though, I have far more dropouts than I ever had brrrips. The brrrips changing to dropouts is just a guess some posters have. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. :lol:


----------



## betterdan

joed32 said:


> betterdan: It's not your receiver. The dropouts are there even if you don't use an AV receiver.


LOL :lol: YES! I know. I know it's the Directv software or signal but I have to go through Directv's troubleshooting steps or they won't believe me.
The problem is when I run the audio straight to the tv via HDMI the drop out is barely detectable to the point you can almost not hear it at all. The same happens if I turn off DD on the Directv box and run the audio to my Onkyo receiver via optical. 
They will probably say that is acceptable but it isn't. I want to use DD and run it to my receiver but that's when the drop outs become unbearable.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> LOL :lol: YES! I know. I know it's the Directv software or signal but I have to go through Directv's troubleshooting steps or they won't believe me.
> The problem is when I run the audio straight to the tv via HDMI the drop out is barely detectable to the point you can almost not hear it at all. The same happens if I turn off DD on the Directv box and run the audio to my Onkyo receiver via optical.
> They will probably say that is acceptable but it isn't. I want to use DD and run it to my receiver but that's when the drop outs become unbearable.


You're on the right track. 
Just keep doing what you are and paint them into a corner.
I had to do this too and it finally got Ellen's attention.


----------



## mickcris

BKC said:


> If they are the same issue I have had it that long too. For me though, I have far more dropouts than I ever had brrrips. The brrrips changing to dropouts is just a guess some posters have. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. :lol:


I am pretty sure that they are the same issue. I have not had a brrrrrp since the audio dropouts started occuring. I'm still not sure which is more annoying. I do agree that the audio dropouts are occuring more frequntly (I also think they are on more channels) than the brrrrps were.


----------



## gilviv

mickcris said:


> I am pretty sure that they are the same issue. I have not had a brrrrrp since the audio dropouts started occuring. I'm still not sure which is more annoying. I do agree that the audio dropouts are occuring more frequntly (I also think they are on more channels) than the brrrrps were.


I am with you on this theory!:eek2: It has been crazy lately

PS.waiting on my reply from ELLEN F.


----------



## BKC

Here's the answer I got yesterday. After months they have quit the bs and were short. lol



> Dear Mr. XXXXXX,
> 
> Thank you for your recent correspondence. We confirmed our Engineering Department is aware of this issue and actively working toward a resolution.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> xxxxxxx
> DIRECTV Customer Advocate Team


----------



## tsduke

BKC said:


> Here's the answer I got yesterday. After months they have quit the bs and were short. lol


You think you will get that response from the next rep? :grin:


----------



## BKC

Maybe because I save the email and just hit reply. They can read back and see what was said.


----------



## betterdan

I got the replacement Directv rceiver in the mail yesterday and it is indeed another HR20-700 so at least that's good. I wonder if they replace the hard drives when they reuse them or do they just leave them as is? If it's hard drive is replaced at least that will be newer than my original box.
Anyways I need to write down all our season passes and fave channels before I hook up the new one and I've been too lazy to do it. I may do it tonight but I would like a full day of playing with it in case it has the older software on it because I want to see if it makes a difference before it updates itself to the newest software.


----------



## betterdan

Alright, I came home from riding my motorcycle and decided to hook up the replacement HR20-700. Got it hooked up and activated (had to call twice as the first person didn't link the new card to the receiver) then turned it on Speed channel HD because it is one channel that is known to have the drop outs all the time. I waited about 19 minutes and BAM! audio dropout. I recorded it in case they want to send someone out to look.
Now can Directv take my word for it that it is not the equipment causing this? I'll give ole Kody a call Monday and let him in on this info.

Oh yea the software on the replacement box is from back in Nov and is 0X3A8. It already had double play enabled on it which is a bummer as i would really like to try a box with firmware that was before double play went into effect.


----------



## tsduke

betterdan said:


> Alright, I came home from riding my motorcycle and decided to hook up the replacement HR20-700. Got it hooked up and activated (had to call twice as the first person didn't link the new card to the receiver) then turned it on Speed channel HD because it is one channel that is known to have the drop outs all the time. I waited about 19 minutes and BAM! audio dropout. I recorded it in case they want to send someone out to look.
> Now can Directv take my word for it that it is not the equipment causing this? I'll give ole Kody a call Monday and let him in on this info.
> 
> Oh yea the software on the replacement box is from back in Nov and is 0X3A8. It already had double play enabled on it which is a bummer as i would really like to try a box with firmware that was before double play went into effect.


Should have save yourself the trouble. There's others in this thread, including myself who have already proven the receiver swap changes nothing.


----------



## BKC

betterdan said:


> Alright, I came home from riding my motorcycle and decided to hook up the replacement HR20-700. Got it hooked up and activated (had to call twice as the first person didn't link the new card to the receiver) then turned it on Speed channel HD because it is one channel that is known to have the drop outs all the time. I waited about 19 minutes and BAM! audio dropout. I recorded it in case they want to send someone out to look.
> Now can Directv take my word for it that it is not the equipment causing this? I'll give ole Kody a call Monday and let him in on this info.
> 
> Oh yea the software on the replacement box is from back in Nov and is 0X3A8. It already had double play enabled on it which is a bummer as i would really like to try a box with firmware that was before double play went into effect.


Dang, I wish it had been a little older software....


----------



## betterdan

tsduke said:


> Should have save yourself the trouble. There's others in this thread, including myself who have already proven the receiver swap changes nothing.


AARRGGHHH! I know it's not the receiver for the 100th time LOL! I had to have it swapped or else Directv wouldn't help try to solve it. They would just mark it down as a bad box and say that I didn't want to replace it so they can't do anything. :nono2: Please try reading the past posts in the thread before you reply.

Anyways.... I just emailed Ellen again letting her know what's going on and that the replacement box didn't work just as I assumed it wouldn't. I asked her to please have someone contact me to help resolve this problem.


----------



## betterdan

Just now got a call from Directv in regards to my email to Ellen. The guy on the phone said this was a known nationwide problem (funny Kody said it wasn't) and that engineering has been looking into the problem. I don't understand that if it really is a known nationwide problem like he said then why would Kody who works in the same department say it isn't?
Anyways he took down some info and I told him it seems like the problem started about 7 months ago or so for me about the time they enabled double play on the receiver. He didn't understand what double play was so I had to tell him. Strange that he works for them and doesn't know what double play is. Maybe he has cable at home. hehe
He also asked what software version I had and I told him 0x3a8, and he said it was very strange because he doesn't show that as being a software version now or in the past. A quick look on here and I see it is a National Release version. 
He said he would forward all this info to engineering to try and help them find the problem.

I'm glad Directv has been trying to help but they don't sound very competent to me, not even knowing their own product.

Ahh well at least they finally admit the problem isn't with the equipment itself, or they are just saying that to appease me and they have no idea what to do about it.

And so the audio dropouts go on...


Oh and for anyone about to tell me it isn't my Directv receiver causing the problem. I KNOW! :lol:


----------



## Rocko62580

Did anyone else get an update on software today? I received an update that said I can now receive 3D broadcasts. I haven't watched long enough to see if the audio problem is gone.


----------



## markrw58

Last Wednesday I had the MRV installed and they replaced one of my receivers with a HR21 and I have not had any dropouts since the upgrade. I have not posted this sooner because I was sure as soon as I did the problem will return. I am curious has anyone else had this happen after a receiver replacement ?


----------



## Rocko62580

The software version is 0x3e0.


----------



## veryoldschool

markrw58 said:


> Last Wednesday I had the MRV installed and they replaced one of my receivers with a HR21 and I have not had any dropouts since the upgrade. I have not posted this sooner because I was sure as soon as I did the problem will return. I am curious has anyone else had this happen after a receiver replacement ?


Have you turned on Dolby? I have a HR21 which does it.


----------



## BKC

markrw58 said:


> Last Wednesday I had the MRV installed and they replaced one of my receivers with a HR21 and I have not had any dropouts since the upgrade. I have not posted this sooner because I was sure as soon as I did the problem will return. I am curious has anyone else had this happen after a receiver replacement ?


You now officially jinxed yourself...


----------



## Dradran

markrw58 said:


> Last Wednesday I had the MRV installed and they replaced one of my receivers with a HR21 and I have not had any dropouts since the upgrade. I have not posted this sooner because I was sure as soon as I did the problem will return. I am curious has anyone else had this happen after a receiver replacement ?


I as well have an HR21-700 that continues to have dropouts.


----------



## markrw58

I have DD on, what shows should I watch tonight to to try and end my streak on no dropouts? I forgot to mention that when they did the MRV upgrade they also changed out the lnb it is now very small.


----------



## veryoldschool

markrw58 said:


> I have DD on, what shows should I watch tonight to to try and end my streak on no dropouts? I forgot to mention that when they did the MRV upgrade they also changed out the lnb it is now very small.


KCRA can't be used because they have their own problems.
Not all HD has DD5.1
You'll need to watch the same channels that you had problems with before and it may take a while before you see them happen again. This simply goes to the nature of this problem.


----------



## bigzeto

I get dropouts all the time on ESPN so watch that for a bit and see if you get any.


----------



## bman3333

Since purchasing an Onkyo TX-SR707 receiver in January, I started to notice the audio dropouts because the receiver's speaker relay switches would click everytime the Dolby Digital audio signal would drop out and the dialog normalization was reestablished. Onkyo were getting so many complaints that they released a firmware upgrade that eliminated the clicks, but the audio dropouts definately continue. The worst channels I have noticed are CNN, Speed and ESPN. 

I never had the issue with Time Warner cable. It must be a some hickup in the Dolby Digital stream after DirecTV picks it up from the content provider. 

How should I go about reporting the issue to DirecTV? Calling a clueless CSR doesn't sound productive and the online feedback form doesn't seem designed for tech reporting issues.


----------



## wavemaster

We currently have Dish installed as well as a good sized D* install. The reason for Dish was to determine if the issues with D were as most were saying "it was the source".

Well we have not had the audio drops on dish. Some all out signal drops (similar to D) but none of the audio drops.

Now FOX Boston and Speed seem to be the very worst for us on D* but not on Dish. So my first question is does FOX/Speed give different feeds to all the carriers, or is their feed the same to all of them?

Also, I have tried contacting Fox in Boston several times and never get a reply (email and phone). Is there some secret list of who to talk to at these stations and and some specific method or person for them to contact at D??


----------



## 1948GG

wavemaster said:


> Well we have not had the audio drops on dish.


Every once in a while myself or VOS pops into this or other threads on this problem. DirecTV is indeed the only provider *even among Mpeg4 users* that is experiencing this problem. They supposedly been 'working on it' for a VERY long time. It is NOT the customer side equipment.

I've been designing this digital video 'stuff' for a very long time, including the original Compression Labs Mpeg2 boxes that DirecTV originally used way back in 1993-4. Every once in a while I pop into these threads to remind folks of certain particular ways that DirecTV manipulates the signals that NO OTHER provider does/uses.

DirecTV utilizes a Harmonic video switching system that enables them to quickly and easily swap digital video/audio feeds around. Come in particularly handy for all those sports feeds and the like.

Otherwise, the equipment they use to transcode the incoming digital from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 (both Harmonic or Tandberg encoders) are exactly the same as everyone else (particularly DISH).

As you've found out, these other providers, using the same equipment, don't have the problem(s). By same equipment, of course, they don't use the VSS system DirecTV does. Only the same encoders.

DirecTV has stated from the beginning that they, and the manufacturers representative(s), can figure a solution to the problem(s). Since this has been going on, in one form or another, for the better part of four (4) years, I'd say that although they've managed to calm down the system somewhat, that hasn't eliminated the problem, and their current 'solution' of pointing fingers at the broadcasters (local or national), will never work as a final solution.

The root of the problem exists more in the executive offices of DirecTV than in the technical operation of the service.


----------



## sigma1914

1948GG said:


> Every once in a while myself or VOS pops into this or other threads on this problem. DirecTV is indeed the only provider *even among Mpeg4 users* that is experiencing this problem. They supposedly been 'working on it' for a VERY long time. It is NOT the customer side equipment.
> 
> I've been designing this digital video 'stuff' for a very long time, including the original Compression Labs Mpeg2 boxes that DirecTV originally used way back in 1993-4. Every once in a while I pop into these threads to remind folks of certain particular ways that DirecTV manipulates the signals that NO OTHER provider does/uses.
> 
> DirecTV utilizes a Harmonic video switching system that enables them to quickly and easily swap digital video/audio feeds around. Come in particularly handy for all those sports feeds and the like.
> 
> Otherwise, the equipment they use to transcode the incoming digital from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 (both Harmonic or Tandberg encoders) are exactly the same as everyone else (particularly DISH).
> 
> As you've found out, these other providers, using the same equipment, don't have the problem(s). By same equipment, of course, they don't use the VSS system DirecTV does. Only the same encoders.
> 
> DirecTV has stated from the beginning that they, and the manufacturers representative(s), can figure a solution to the problem(s). Since this has been going on, in one form or another, for the better part of four (4) years, I'd say that although they've managed to calm down the system somewhat, that hasn't eliminated the problem, and their current 'solution' of pointing fingers at the broadcasters (local or national), will never work as a final solution.
> 
> The root of the problem exists more in the executive offices of DirecTV than in the technical operation of the service.


Excellent and informative post. This should be a sticky.


----------



## jventre

Funny how this is a known problem on D but is not acknowledged by their tech support people. A few weeks ago I called to report the problem (I have it on my Richmond, VA CBS affiliate) and the tech person acted as if this was an entirely new problem he had never heard of before and was ready to send me replacement boxes blaming it on hardware. I told him not to bother since I knew it wasn't just me having the issue. when I mention this forum he also acted as if he had no idea what I was talking about.


----------



## texasbrit

1948GG - not quite true. Dish has had a similar problem in some cities where they converted to MPEG-4 (particularly with the Fox affiliates). But it certainly has not been as widespread as the DirecTV issue. 
My take on this is:
1. There is a problem with the digital audio feed from some stations/channels. Often, particularly with local stations, there seems to be no-one at the station who really understands digital audio and so they seem to be incapable of even seeing the problem.
2. Some local affiliates (even Fox) have managed to clean up their signal so the problem is much reduced. Here in DFW we haven't had too many issues with locals over the past six months, previously things were sometimes really bad.
3. The DirecTV equipment chain is much too sensitive to these glitches. The manufacturer probably says "garbage in, garbage out" but they should be able to ride through some of this. 
4. Some A/V receivers (including several Onkyo and Denon models) are far more sensitive to these audio glitches than others. A neighbor has DirecTV using an Onkyo A/V receiver. I have a Sony. I get virtually no audio glitches with the DD 5.1 signal through my Sony. He has long glitches all the time, on certain channels.

Yes, it would be very good if the channels could deliver pristine audio all the time. And some of them are just very poor at doing this. But the reality of life is that there are going to be audio glitches from time to time, and IMHO DirecTV - and the A/V receiver manufacturers, for that matter - should be able to handle most of them.


----------



## 1948GG

I've been an FCC licensed television broadcast engineer (from back when that meant something, prior to the Reagan deregulation fervor in the 1980's), and if DirecTV or someone else complained to me that my station was was somehow causing a dbs (or cable) operator problems, I'd say "okay, what part of my signal is NOT meeting FCC regs?"

And you know what? They can't, because it isn't. Of course, most stations don't even employ anyone technical enough to be called a broadcast engineer anymore, because they're not required to.

I've been employed over my career by several service companies in the oil/gas industry. I've worked extensively with Petroleum Engineers, Tool Pushers, Reservoir Engineers, Mud (Chemical) Engineers, and Mechanical Engineers, the whole food chain, designing and building large scale land and ocean (semi-submersible) platforms, just like the one that just sank.

The interview last week on 60 minutes of the electronics guy on the rig, and continuing interviews with other rig members this week, show a clear as day pattern of a series of *WTF* moments where anyone with even a modicum of common sense would have yelled 'STOP', but where they were over-ruled by the 'company man' (BP) telling them they were wrong, we're going to do it 'my way or the highway'.

This type of thinking as pervaded U.S. industry down to the core.



texasbrit said:


> The DirecTV equipment chain is much too sensitive to these glitches


Uh, yes! But who is running the operation...? Certainly not the people who know what their doing, but some pencil pushing graduate of some business school who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag. They've not taught how to think.

Those folks on the drill platform needed to turn around and say 'I QUIT, get me OFF this platform NOW' and maybe they'd be alive today. At a minimum, there's always a work boat (Coast Guard required) just off to the side, you can be lowered (by crane) down to it, but get the heck off.

For something more mundane, like the DirecTV problems we're talking about, some folks in the organization need to grow a spine. But that's what I did for a living for some 35 years, brought in as an outside consultant to drill down (interesting metaphor!) on problems just like this.

DirecTV needs to do that, they can't see the forest for the trees. Really, a relatively minor problem, that not all folks can hear/see as you've pointed out. But there are a host of problems there, that folks who don't have an eye sensitive to the 'glitches' don't see, and I see them all the time. The audio dropouts are simply the easiest to see/hear.

But things move on, I wonder what kind of effects that I see every day, that appear to be part of what's causing the audio dropouts (and is causing more subtle video mangling) , is going to do to 3D transmissions....? THAT will be interesting....


----------



## texasbrit

1948GG - agree with you. Very few people seem to have the technical knowledge and experience to sort out this sort of problem. If we just look at the Fox stations alone (not just the affiliates, but also channels like Speed) it's obvious to everyone there is a common problem. One Fox station engineer, who seemed to know what he was talking about, said that when he went through the audio chain at the station he found at least five different issues. Last year I was visiting a friend in Virginia and the DD 5.1 audio from the local Fox affiliate through DirecTV was just about perfect when the programming was locally-derived, but as soon as the station went to network programming everything fell apart. American Idol was almost impossible to watch. This sort of thing should not be so hard to find! Last year here in DFW we were getting the "brrrp" audio problem all the time on the local CBS channel - this was before DirecTV had its encoders modified to turn the "brrrp" into a dropout! Then one of the station engineers took it upon himself to try to find/sort out the problems. A month later the problem was almost completely gone. 
Then we come to the DirecTV side of things. Given that Dish only seems to have a problem even in MPEG-4 when the audio glitches from the station become really major (and sometimes you even hear them on cable and OTA!), then it seems to me that DirecTV has a problem that should and could be fixed. If it's Harmonic equipment that's magnifying the problem (as some people have suggested), Harmonic should be made to fix it. We've all been living with this issue for far too long.


----------



## veryoldschool

texasbrit said:


> If it's Harmonic equipment that's magnifying the problem (as some people have suggested), Harmonic should be made to fix it. We've all been living with this issue for far too long.


The corporate mentality 1948GG eluded to was running rampant @ Harmonic when I worked for them. This was before they started making encoders, but was deep in their core.


----------



## JeffBowser

I sure have enjoyed the last few posts of solid reasoning and explanations. Beats the heck out of the blind temper-tantrums that have become the norm.


----------



## texasbrit

JeffBowser said:


> I sure have enjoyed the last few posts of solid reasoning and explanations. Beats the heck out of the blind temper-tantrums that have become the norm.


Thanks. In general I have stayed out of this thread because of the incorrect and argumentative posts which seem to characterize this subject. VOS and 1948GG are breaths of fresh air here (VOS, I bet you've never been called that!!)


----------



## veryoldschool

texasbrit said:


> Thanks. In general I have stayed out of this thread because of the incorrect and argumentative posts which seem to characterize this subject. VOS and 1948GG are breaths of fresh air here (VOS, I bet you've never been called that!!)


!rolling
[I've been called many things, but.....]


----------



## tsduke

texasbrit said:


> Thanks. In general I have stayed out of this thread because of the incorrect and argumentative posts which seem to characterize this subject. VOS and 1948GG are breaths of fresh air here (VOS, I bet you've never been called that!!)


I don't really care what's right or wrong about any of these posts. There's a problem and I want Directv to fix it!!!!


----------



## sigma1914

JeffBowser said:


> I sure have enjoyed the last few posts of solid reasoning and explanations. Beats the heck out of the blind temper-tantrums that have become the norm.


And they're back. 



tsduke said:


> I don't really care what's right or wrong about any of these posts. There's a problem and I want Directv to fix it!!!!


----------



## veryoldschool

tsduke said:


> I don't really care... There's a problem and I want Directv to fix it!!!!


I think we all do.


----------



## JeffBowser

Yeah, that didn't take long at all.



sigma1914 said:


> And they're back.


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> And they're back.


wtf? 

I doubt that 99.9% of the people that have this problem care about what causes it. They care that DTV has a problem and it's not being fixed in a timely manner.....


----------



## tsduke

BKC said:


> wtf?
> 
> I doubt that 99.9% of the people that have this problem care about what causes it. They care that DTV has a problem and it's not being fixed in a timely manner.....


Evidentally this thread is about sounding smart or about sounding like a Directv engineer.  We're not supposed want it fixed.


----------



## veryoldschool

There is a Ron White line here somewhere.


----------



## Mark Walters

tsduke said:


> i don't really care what's right or wrong about any of these posts. There's a problem and i want directv to fix it!!!!


+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> wtf?
> 
> I doubt that 99.9% of the people that have this problem care about what causes it. They care that DTV has a problem and it's not being fixed in a timely manner.....





tsduke said:


> Evidentally this thread is about sounding smart or about sounding like a Directv engineer.  We're not supposed want it fixed.


Then, only complaining is allowed? That gets nothing accomplished. God forbid a FCC licensed television broadcast engineer posts informative information.  You might learn something.


----------



## Mark Walters

I'm trying to watch the NBA pregame on NBAHD 216. Trying to hear Sir Charles, Kenny, etc... damn dropouts are sickening.. Someone tune to this channel and confirm that a dropout happens every 5-10 seconds please!!!


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> Then, only complaining is allowed?


Yes.


----------



## veryoldschool

Mark Walters said:


> I'm trying to watch the NBA pregame on NBAHD 216. Trying to hear Sir Charles, Kenny, etc... damn dropouts are sickening.. Someone tune to this channel and confirm that a dropout happens every 5-10 seconds please!!!


It's hosed. There is a lipsync problem too.


----------



## sigma1914

Mark Walters said:


> I'm trying to watch the NBA pregame on NBAHD 216. Trying to hear Sir Charles, Kenny, etc... damn dropouts are sickening.. Someone tune to this channel and confirm that a dropout happens every 5-10 seconds please!!!


Yes, but it's not losing DD...it's just going out. Usually, they drop and the display on my A/V flash. No flashes on this...just drops.


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> Yes.


I'll let mods handle what can be said here, not you.


----------



## Mark Walters

veryoldschool said:


> It's hosed. There is a lipsync problem too.


Yes very bad...it's really ridiculous. What a disaster. I'm calling tomorrow to get my HD fee waived.



sigma1914 said:


> Yes, but it's not losing DD...it's just going out. Usually, they drop and the display on my A/V flash. No flashes on this...just drops.


I never have display issues -- just audio. Not sure what DD is, but I never get flashes when the audio goes out for a second. For example the crawl at the bottom moves without interruption when the audio drops out. So my video is fine, just the audio.


----------



## sigma1914

Mark Walters said:


> Yes very bad...it's really ridiculous. What a disaster. I'm calling tomorrow to get my HD fee waived.
> 
> I never have display issues -- just audio. Not sure what DD is, but I never get flashes when the audio goes out for a second.


Not video...I mean the info display on my a/v receiver. DD=Dolby Digital


----------



## Mark Walters

sigma1914 said:


> Not video...I mean the info display on my a/v receiver. DD=Dolby Digital


I see. So since your AV player isn't flashing, I gather you're saying this is an additional issue -- not just the prevailing audio dropout. Geez. I do notice that sometimes the front speaker goes out and the rear satellite speakers get volume for a second and then it goes back to normal! :lol:


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> I'll let mods handle what can be said here, not you.


:lol: Don't ask if you don't want an answer.

Anything said about what the cause of the problem is pure speculation, nothing more. The last thing we want if DTV looks in here is them thinking anyone understands and accepts the problem. What we do want is complaint after complaint about it because as we all know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. This wheel has been squeaking a long long time and needs to be fixed. I don't care if it costs them ten million dollars or more. People with this problem have been paying full price during the entire time they've had this problem. Would you buy a new car and put up with an engine misfire everyday for months on end and settle for someone taking a guess what's wrong and explaining it to you? I think not. You would want it fixed and not really care how they did it or how much it cost them.


----------



## njfoses

Very bad on espn this am. Dropping out every min or so.


----------



## vthokies1996

Anyone else having entire commercials without sound? The Audi commercial had no sound at all. Another a few minutes ago was the same way. This is on ESPN. Hopefully there are no sound issues during the game. Although they did lose sound and had to cut away from Martin Tyler during the pregame.


----------



## mickcris

I finally decided to just turn Dolby Digital off. Was tring to watch ESPN this morning and it was unwatcable. Can't really notice the dropouts with it off. I am not very happy that I had to do it though as it does not sound as good.


----------



## DogLover

vthokies1996 said:


> Anyone else having entire commercials without sound? The Audi commercial had no sound at all. Another a few minutes ago was the same way. This is on ESPN. Hopefully there are no sound issues during the game. Although they did lose sound and had to cut away from Martin Tyler during the pregame.


I had that happen a few weeks ago, for a week or so. It happened on somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of the commercials. It was so nice. It didn't last however.


----------



## camo

I did some testing this morning. I'm sure others have also but just wanted to see for myself. I'm watching ESPNHD and have two TV's and Two HR's. 
HR24 goes through Onkyo receiver and HR20 just through a TV. All hooked up with HDMI. 
Drop outs are at exact same place on both HR's. If you turn off Dolby 5.1, drop outs turn into more of a garbled glitch sound and not near as noticeable. 
Audio glitch through TV alone even on Dolby 5.1 is not as noticeable most likely because TV's lack of processing sound like the receiver does. 

Is there any reason to report the audio problem? I've read Direct is aware of it and it's been around for a long time.
I hate to leave Dolby 5.1 off but even after 15 minutes it's pleasant not having the drop outs so noticeable.


----------



## texasbrit

camo - what you are hearing is what we would expect based on what we know about the cause of the problem. No point in reporting the details of the audio problem, but an e-mail to DirecTV telling them to fix it can't do any harm.


----------



## BKC

camo said:


> Is there any reason to report the audio problem? I've read Direct is aware of it and it's been around for a long time.
> .


YES YES YES! The more people that report it the faster they will be forced to address it. Complain about it over and over


----------



## Richierich

vthokies1996 said:


> Anyone else having entire commercials without sound? The Audi commercial had no sound at all. Another a few minutes ago was the same way. This is on ESPN. Hopefully there are no sound issues during the game. Although they did lose sound and had to cut away from Martin Tyler during the pregame.


Do you have Analog Audio Outputs to your Receiver or TV or wherever you are getting Sound.

I have Optical Digital Audio out to my Denon AVR5803 Receiver and also Analog Output to my Denon Receiver for the purpose of being able to hear the DVR's Sound Effects which are only transmitted via Analog Signal so when I was watching a Recording of "Jay Leno" the sound was dimmed or turned down so I glanced at my Denon and noticed that it was now showing Analog Input and Not Digital.

I continued to watch the Recordind and lo and behold the sound went back up and I noticed that my Denon was Now Showing Digital. So the Audio Problem seems to be the DVR switching from Digital Output to Analog Output and then back again to Digital and if you don't have an Analog Output for picking up Sound Effects than you would not get any Sound or Audio.

Some Commercials are Transmitted in Analog so if you do not have Analog Output to your Audio Receiver or TV than you would get No Sound!!!


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> Do you have Analog Audio Outputs to your Receiver or TV or wherever you are getting Sound.
> 
> I have Optical Digital Audio out to my Denon AVR5803 Receiver and also Analog Output to my Denon Receiver for the purpose of being able to hear the DVR's Sound Effects which are only transmitted via Analog Signal so when I was watching a Recording of "Jay Leno" the sound was dimmed or turned down so I glanced at my Denon and noticed that it was now showing Analog Input and Not Digital.
> 
> I continued to watch the Recordind and lo and behold the sound went back up and I noticed that my Denon was Now Showing Digital. So the Audio Problem seems to be the DVR switching from Digital Output to Analog Output and then back again to Digital and if you don't have an Analog Output for picking up Sound Effects than you would not get any Sound or Audio.
> 
> Some Commercials are Transmitted in Analog so if you do not have Analog Output to your Audio Receiver or TV than you would get No Sound!!!


 I think your trying to say Dolby and PCM audio, since over both HDMI & optical, it's always digital.


----------



## joed32

BKC said:


> YES YES YES! The more people that report it the faster they will be forced to address it. Complain about it over and over


They have had so many complaints about this. I don't think they have any idea how to fix it. If they did they would have done it already.


----------



## Richierich

veryoldschool said:


> I think your trying to say Dolby and PCM audio, since over both HDMI & optical, it's always digital.


No VOS I am saying that I have Optical Digital Audio Out to my Denon along with Analog Output White and Red Cables to my Denon with AutoDetect On so when it senses Digital it automatically Switches to the Digital Input Mode. However, if it loses the Digital Signal then it automatically switches to the Analog Input Mode.

It was on Digital when I noticed a Drop in Audio Sound. I looked at my Denon and it now stated Analog Input and Stereo Mode whereas before it was DD 5.1 and Digital so the Input Signal switched from Digital to Analog and I just happened to have Analog Output Cables connected to my Denon or I would have received no Sound at all.

My HDMI goes to my LCD but I have it's sound turned off so I can have Audio VIA my Denon Surround Sound System.


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> No VOS I am saying that I have Optical Digital Audio Out to my Denon along with Analog Output White and Red Cables to my Denon with AutoDetect On so when it senses Digital it automatically Switches to the Digital Input Mode. However, if it loses the Digital Signal then it automatically switches to the Analog Input Mode.
> 
> It was on Digital when I noticed a Drop in Audio Sound. I looked at my Denon and it now stated Analog Input and Stereo Mode whereas before it was DD 5.1 and Digital so the Input Signal switched from Digital to Analog and I just happened to have Analog Output Cables connected to my Denon or I would have received no Sound at all.
> 
> My HDMI goes to my LCD but I have it's sound turned off so I can have Audio VIA my Denon Surround Sound System.


I'm even more 
Are you trying to say that the DirecTV receiver stops outputting sound over the digital outputs and during this time only the analog RCA outputs have sound?
I've never seen that here. My TV or AVR simply switches from DD5.1 to PCM.


----------



## camo

So richierich is saying his receiver while in auto detect mode will switch over to PCM fast enough to catch the glitch if you also hook up analog cables from the Direct rec. along with Optical Digital Audio cable. I stopped using the optical sound cable when HDMI came out. 
It may be worth a try if it works. So much for the advantage of HDMI.


----------



## BKC

joed32 said:


> They have had so many complaints about this. I don't think they have any idea how to fix it. If they did they would have done it already.


I'm sure they know how, now to get them to do it....... I don't think other sources for TV that don't have this problem can be that much smarter than the people at DTV can they? :lol:


----------



## dpeters11

camo said:


> So richierich is saying his receiver while in auto detect mode will switch over to PCM fast enough to catch the glitch if you also hook up analog cables from the Direct rec. along with Optical Digital Audio cable. I stopped using the optical sound cable when HDMI came out.
> It may be worth a try if it works. So much for the advantage of HDMI.


My Onkyo certainly didn't switch fast enough. On my new Denon (HDMI), sometimes it seems the volume just gets lower, other times silence. Just no clicks.


----------



## bigzeto

richierich said:


> No VOS I am saying that I have Optical Digital Audio Out to my Denon along with Analog Output White and Red Cables to my Denon with AutoDetect On so when it senses Digital it automatically Switches to the Digital Input Mode. However, if it loses the Digital Signal then it automatically switches to the Analog Input Mode.
> 
> It was on Digital when I noticed a Drop in Audio Sound. I looked at my Denon and it now stated Analog Input and Stereo Mode whereas before it was DD 5.1 and Digital so the Input Signal switched from Digital to Analog and I just happened to have Analog Output Cables connected to my Denon or I would have received no Sound at all.
> 
> My HDMI goes to my LCD but I have it's sound turned off so I can have Audio VIA my Denon Surround Sound System.


This is exactly how I had my old Onkyo hooked up and I never really noticed any dropouts. Ever since I've gotten my Denon and have it going HDMI from the hr20 to the Denon, dropouts have been insane. I'm gonna try my old way again and will post back the results.


----------



## Richierich

veryoldschool said:


> I'm even more
> Are you trying to say that the DirecTV receiver stops outputting sound over the digital outputs and during this time only the analog RCA outputs have sound?
> I've never seen that here. My TV or AVR simply switches from DD5.1 to PCM.


That is Exactly what I am seeing and saying.

Everytime the Sound changes I look at the Denon Display and if the Sound has lowered it is now using the Analog Input because it is No Longer Detecting a Digital Signal and very quickly does the changeover so I noticed nothing except the lowering or increasing of the Sound Volume as the Input goes from Digital to Analog and then back to Digital.

Alot of commercials are not transferred over to Digital so the Commercials are Analog and sometimes they are Very Loud.


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> That is Exactly what I am seeing and saying.
> 
> Everytime the Sound changes I look at the Denon Display and if the Sound has lowered it is now using the Analog Input because it is No Longer Detecting a Digital Signal and very quickly does the changeover so I noticed nothing except the lowering or increasing of the Sound Volume as the Input goes from Digital to Analog and then back to Digital.
> 
> Alot of commercials are not transferred over to Digital so the Commercials are Analog and sometimes they are Very Loud.


I'm fairly sure this is how you've set your Denon and not the DirecTV receiver.
My Sony simply switches to PCM from DD5.1 and then back.


----------



## Richierich

veryoldschool said:


> I'm fairly sure this is how you've set your Denon and not the DirecTV receiver.
> My Sony simply switches to PCM from DD5.1 and then back.


Obviously you do not know very much about Denon Receivers then but I will Enlighten you as you have Enlightened me many many times over the years and I Revere your knowledge but I have had a DVD in my DVD Player and the Denon Detects that it is DD 5.1.

Then after that DVD finished I did a DOD Download of "The Bourne Ultimatum" to check the Quality of DOD movies versus the DVD. It switched to PLII so the Denon Detected that it was not Dolby Digital (I got a Refund from Customer Retention after I proved that it was supposed to be DD 5.1 and was delivered in something less) and switched to Simulated PLII Surround Sound.

However, many times when I see commercials I notice that they are being broadcast by the Affiliate as Analog and my Denon Detects this signal and switched over to Analog.

This is designed so the User does not have to worry about switching inputs and it is AUTOMATIC!!!

And alot of times the Volume is Very High and then the program comes back on and it switches back to Digital and DD 5.1.

TRUST ME, I know what I am seeing and talking about and how Denon handles the incoming signals and anyone else here in this Forum who has a Denon will tell you the same thing.


----------



## Richierich

Let me correct my last post. It switched to DD 2.0 and was delivered in the Download as Dolby Digital 2.0 not PLII so excuse me for that mistake but I played it again and it was DD 2.0 and who in the World would want to watch "The Bourne Ultimatum" in DD 2.0 Stereo when it was advertised as DD Surround Sound which is DD 5.1 not DD 2.0!!!

I then finally received a Refund after proving to the Directv Customer Retention CSR (being denied by 3 other CSRs) that it was DD 2.0 and she verified this after talking to the Technical Dept.


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> Let me correct my last post.


As we've seen in this thread, the AV receivers we use affects how good or bad these problems are for the viewer.
What may be a good feature in some, may also cause these to be so much worse, while a "cheapo" Sony, has them, but doesn't have as much of a problem as it drops, switches the PCM and then switches back to DD5.1.
When a commercial isn't in DD5.1, mine shows the loss, changes to PCM and then switches back to DD5.1. I don't have "analog" RCA cables connected, so the DirecTV receiver is always sending "digital".
Like many here, If I had a good highend receiver and it was having problems with what DirecTV was sending it, I'd be REALLY PISSED at DirecTV.


----------



## Richierich

I have a $5,000 Denon AVR5803 which did not have HDMI Input Ports as it came out right before HDMI became a Standard and I believe it did switch to Analog PCM Audio and then it goes back to Digital.

It is Automatic as it Detects the Signal as either Digital or Analog and then does the corresponding switch to support that input signal.

I don't have that much of a problem so it must be more related to the broadcaster/affiliate distribution than a native signal.

I guess the reason I know this is that when Commercials began being really loud about a year or two ago I would go look at the Denon to see what it was Detecting and then couldn't believe I was seeing it displayed as "Analog". Then after the Commercial it would switch back to "Digital" and the noise level or Volume Level would drop.


----------



## joed32

BKC said:


> I'm sure they know how, now to get them to do it....... I don't think other sources for TV that don't have this problem can be that much smarter than the people at DTV can they? :lol:


You think they know how but have decided not to do it because ? Maybe because it's just on a few channels for most people they consider it insignificant. I watch some talk shows on ESPN daily and the dropouts are always there. Never see them on Premiums or any of the other movie channels.


----------



## BKC

joed32 said:


> *You think they know how but have decided not to do it because ?* Maybe because it's just on a few channels for most people they consider it insignificant. I watch some talk shows on ESPN daily and the dropouts are always there. Never see them on Premiums or any of the other movie channels.


*$$$$$$$$$$* That's just speculation of course but if other providers don't have the problem DTV almost has to know why they have it.

I have them all the time on Showtime too.


----------



## Richierich

Well, when HD first came out and about all we had to watch was HDNET they had a problem where Directv was using a newer Encoder/Decoder than the one used by HDNET and they weren't Fully Compatible so every once in awhile the HDNET had to catch up or sync up with the Directv Process so it developed a hiccup or audio glitch until they got back in sync.

Finally the Engineers figured it out and they upgraded their Encoder/Decoder so it matched Directv's Encoder/Decoder Process.

I don't know if this is the same issue but it sounds like it. It all has to do with the way the Affiliate's Engineers are sending out the broadcast. Alot of times they do not convert the commercials over to digital.

All, I know is that when my Audio Volume goes down I look at my Denon Display and it is ANALOG. When it goes back up, I look and see DIGITAL.

If I didn't have Analog cables going in to my Denon I would just get a glitch with no sound for awhile and then when it goes back to Digital I would get my sound back.


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> If I didn't have Analog cables going in to my Denon I would just get a glitch with no sound for awhile and then when it goes back to Digital I would get my sound back.


I can't believe there isn't a setting in the Denon like there is with my Sony.
I use "auto" where it finds what it's getting [Dolby or not] and then switches to the right process to output the digital input.


----------



## Richierich

I told you that it has AutoDetect and if you have it set to on it will switch automatically from Digital to Analog but how do you get Sound from Analog when there is no Analog Cable present to deliver the Analog Signal to the Denon.

How do you get your "Directv Sound Effects" such as the "Bong" when you get to the bottom of a list and then page down? They are Analog Signals.

You have to add an Analog Cable to the Analog Input Jack on the back of your Denon Receiver.


----------



## sigma1914

richierich said:


> ...
> *How do you get your "Directv Sound Effects" such as the "Bong" when you get to the bottom of a list and then page down? They are Analog Signals.*
> 
> ...


I hear them over HDMI, until I turn them off.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

richierich said:


> I told you that it has AutoDetect and if you have it set to on it will switch automatically from Digital to Analog but how do you get Sound from Analog when there is no Analog Cable present to deliver the Analog Signal to the Denon.
> 
> *How do you get your "Directv Sound Effects" such as the "Bong" when you get to the bottom of a list and then page down? They are Analog Signals.*
> 
> You have to add an Analog Cable to the Analog Input Jack on the back of your Denon Receiver.


Hmmm...this feature works on every unit I have, regardless of HMDI, Optical, or other audio connection.

Perhaps you might just find it here: Parental, Fav's, and Setup > System Setup > Audio > Sound Effects


----------



## Richierich

Well, I have had it working for some time but in the past it had to have an Analog Connection so maybe they upgraded it awhile back and forgot to notify me. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> Well, I have had it working for some time but in the past it had to have an Analog Connection so maybe they upgraded it awhile back and forgot to notify me. :lol:


I just looked into this.
Over HDMI they're there, but not over optical. 
I sure wouldn't be connecting RCA cables to hear them though.


----------



## texasbrit

richierich said:


> I told you that it has AutoDetect and if you have it set to on it will switch automatically from Digital to Analog but how do you get Sound from Analog when there is no Analog Cable present to deliver the Analog Signal to the Denon.
> 
> How do you get your "Directv Sound Effects" such as the "Bong" when you get to the bottom of a list and then page down? They are Analog Signals.
> 
> You have to add an Analog Cable to the Analog Input Jack on the back of your Denon Receiver.


Why do you need an analog cable? A single optical audio cable from my DVR to my Sony A/V receiver will deliver whatever audio signal is present. So if I have a DD 5.1 signal the receiver shows DD5.1, if the signal drops to PCM (due to a glitch or because a commercial is in PCM) then the autodetect notices, my receiver now shows PCM and I get the sound OK..


----------



## camo

Well found temporary acceptable fix today while watching World cup on ESPNHD. The fix was going into Onkyo receiver settings and under hardware settings turning on the TV volume.
Now when the dropouts occur the TV handles it much better with just a slight garbled sound but I don't loose all sound. This is a big improvement over total sound/volume loss. The surround sound speakers still dominate sound with TV volume set lower but loud enough to fill the gap when audio drop outs occur. 

Anyone with this feature on your receiver, this is a good temporary fix. TV is now enjoyable again.


----------



## Rusty_Clown

mine drops out at the DVR. It doesn't matter whether My Onkyo is in the loop or not, there is simply no sound.


----------



## Richierich

Rusty_Clown said:


> mine drops out at the DVR. It doesn't matter whether My Onkyo is in the loop or not, there is simply no sound.


Have you tried also running RCA White and Red Analog Cables to your Receiver? If it drops the digital you will still get the analog sound via your RCA audio inputs which I know is just a workaround but it will have to suffice until they get the problem fixed.


----------



## camo

Rusty_Clown said:


> mine drops out at the DVR. It doesn't matter whether My Onkyo is in the loop or not, there is simply no sound.


That sucks. I'm very pleased now with the fix I posted above. No distracting drops.


----------



## mickcris

camo said:


> Well found temporary acceptable fix today while watching World cup on ESPNHD. The fix was going into Onkyo receiver settings and under hardware settings turning on the TV volume.
> Now when the dropouts occur the TV handles it much better with just a slight garbled sound but I don't loose all sound. This is a big improvement over total sound/volume loss. The surround sound speakers still dominate sound with TV volume set lower but loud enough to fill the gap when audio drop outs occur.
> 
> Anyone with this feature on your receiver, this is a good temporary fix. TV is now enjoyable again.


Can you explain this a little more please? I have an Onkyo 805 and would like to try this. Did you turn on the option that says "HDMI audio out"? I do not have a TV volume option under hardware settings. Thanks.


----------



## camo

mickcris said:


> Can you explain this a little more please? I have an Onkyo 805 and would like to try this. Did you turn on the option that says "HDMI audio out"? I do not have a TV volume option under hardware settings. Thanks.


With my 876 I went to-- hardware setup-- HDMI-- audio TV out. Default was off I selected on. 
Anywhere in your settings whether under HDMI or some other place you want to be able to turn TV volume on along with surround sound.


----------



## camo

mickcris said:


> Can you explain this a little more please? I have an Onkyo 805 and would like to try this. Did you turn on the option that says "HDMI audio out"? I do not have a TV volume option under hardware settings. Thanks.


I downloaded you manual and you have this option. Under hardware setup-- HDMI-- HDMI audio off and on. Turn it on and this will turn your TV speakers on.

*EDIT: After reading your manual looks like it will turn your receiver sound off. But try it and see *


----------



## mickcris

camo said:


> I downloaded you manual and you have this option. Under hardware setup-- HDMI-- HDMI audio off and on. Turn it on and this will turn your TV speakers on.
> 
> *EDIT: After reading your manual looks like it will turn your receiver sound off. But try it and see *


Thanks. I'll give it a try whe I get home. I was thinking it may only pass the audio through.

edit:
Yea, it passes the audio through only. That sucks it doesn't work the way yours does.


----------



## bigbrother52

richierich said:


> Alot of times they do not convert the commercials over to digital.
> 
> All, I know is that when my Audio Volume goes down I look at my Denon Display and it is ANALOG. When it goes back up, I look and see DIGITAL.
> 
> If I didn't have Analog cables going in to my Denon I would just get a glitch with no sound for awhile and then when it goes back to Digital I would get my sound back.


There are no Analog commercials, no analog anything over DirecTV! 
When your SSP is recieving an Analog signal it's only because you have the DirecTV box converting their digital signal to Analog through their 29 cent D/A converter, as opposed to converting it to Analog in your Denon.
All of DirecTV is 100% digital, 100% of the time.

EDIT: 100% of the time that the digital signal didn't drop-out...


----------



## majikmarker

Anyone else watching this on NBC? I had some bad dropouts during this program (6-8 over the hour).

Also watched Valkyrie on HBOHD tonight. I have fewer issues on Premiums but was bad during the movie tonight (8-10 over the 90 minutes).

I have rainy weather in the area tonight. Any chance a degraded satellite signal makes the problem worse. I think I have more issues on cloudy days than clear days (not positive though).


----------



## vthokies1996

richierich said:


> Do you have Analog Audio Outputs to your Receiver or TV or wherever you are getting Sound.
> 
> I have Optical Digital Audio out to my Denon AVR5803 Receiver and also Analog Output to my Denon Receiver for the purpose of being able to hear the DVR's Sound Effects which are only transmitted via Analog Signal so when I was watching a Recording of "Jay Leno" the sound was dimmed or turned down so I glanced at my Denon and noticed that it was now showing Analog Input and Not Digital.
> 
> I continued to watch the Recordind and lo and behold the sound went back up and I noticed that my Denon was Now Showing Digital. So the Audio Problem seems to be the DVR switching from Digital Output to Analog Output and then back again to Digital and if you don't have an Analog Output for picking up Sound Effects than you would not get any Sound or Audio.
> 
> Some Commercials are Transmitted in Analog so if you do not have Analog Output to your Audio Receiver or TV than you would get No Sound!!!


Sorry, I was out of town over the weekend and didn't respond. It looks as though my particular problem was ESPN. Several of the commercials had no sound and I also noticed several technical problems during the pregame for the opening match (Mexico vs. South Africa).

Once the game itself started, I didn't notice any issues. To answer your question, I am not using Optical Audio. I am using HDMI into my Onkyo receiver.


----------



## camo

Been watching world cup today ESPNHD and no drop outs in three hours. Dolby 5.1 on, Onkyo receiver settings all normal except used tip from AVS forum Listening mode presets. Changed last valid to suggested setting for receiver. Analog/PCM ----PLIIx Movie and Dolby Digital -----Ultra2 Cinema. 
Have my fingers crossed Direct fixed problem.


----------



## knoxbh

Food for thought. Had been having the usual audio dropouts for the past few months. Then about 3 weeks ago, practically all of the dropouts disappeared - its disappearance was noted by both my wife and I. Then the audio dropouts reappeared about 3 -4 days ago with a bang on most of our channels. We are using a HR20-700 (actually two in the same room) hooked up to a Onkyo A/V receiver via optical cables. We had thought the audio dropouts was solved when we had none for nearly 2 weeks. Too good to be true!


----------



## Steveknj

camo said:


> Well found temporary acceptable fix today while watching World cup on ESPNHD. The fix was going into Onkyo receiver settings and under hardware settings turning on the TV volume.
> Now when the dropouts occur the TV handles it much better with just a slight garbled sound but I don't loose all sound. This is a big improvement over total sound/volume loss. The surround sound speakers still dominate sound with TV volume set lower but loud enough to fill the gap when audio drop outs occur.
> 
> Anyone with this feature on your receiver, this is a good temporary fix. TV is now enjoyable again.


I have an Onkyo receiver, so you are saying to run the TV sound ALONG with the receiver sound? I've done that accidentally before, and it seems I get an echoing effect.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steveknj said:


> I have an Onkyo receiver, so you are saying to run the TV sound ALONG with the receiver sound? I've done that accidentally before, and it seems I get an echoing effect.


You'd likely get an echo trying that approach....timing differences in how the audio is processed...


----------



## camo

knoxbh said:


> . We had thought the audio dropouts was solved when we had none for nearly 2 weeks. Too good to be true!


Probably right. Still have my fingers crossed they fixed something overnight.


----------



## camo

Just a update. Drop outs still going strong. Even on premiums in the evenings. Valkyrie on ShowWHD had about 30 during the movie last night.


----------



## veryoldschool

camo said:


> Just a update. Drop outs still going strong. Even on premiums in the evenings. Valkyrie on ShowWHD had about 30 during the movie last night.


I see you have a HR24-500. 
This receiver has a separate [additional] issue with DD5.1. Live playback doesn't add dropouts and using these as a server for MRV, doesn't have them.
Buffering or playback from the drive *DOES have these and they're not related to the SAT feed*.


----------



## camo

veryoldschool said:


> I see you have a HR24-500.
> This receiver has a separate [additional] issue with DD5.1. Live playback doesn't add dropouts and using these as a server for MRV, doesn't have them.
> Buffering or playback from the drive *DOES have these and they're not related to the SAT feed*.


Thanks for the information. It was in playback mode because I recorded it and watched recording from start about 10 minutes after movie started. 
So this is a HR24 issue? Hope software update is coming.


----------



## veryoldschool

camo said:


> Thanks for the information. It was in playback mode because I recorded it and watched recording from start about 10 minutes after movie started.
> So *this is a HR24 issue*? Hope software update is coming.


It sure looks to be [since none of the other receivers act the exact same way] and has been around for months. I'm working with them over this and hoping they will get a fix "soon" [though I've been waiting a few months].
Because of the other dropouts in the SAT feed, this problem was kind of missed in early testing and dismissed as the "normal dropouts".


----------



## bigbrother52

veryoldschool said:


> [since none of the other receivers act the exact same way] this problem was kind of missed in early testing and dismissed as the "normal dropouts".


In my home theater room I currently have an HR20-700 that works extremely well with my particular SSP, meaning that audio dropouts are almost non-detectable and momentary at worst.
This comming Monday I expect 3 HR-24's will be installed and was going to shuffle this great old HR20-700 to a much less used room.
Since the quality of audio is of paramount importance to me in this room and the whole house is MRV capable anyway, will I notice a big decline in performance if the HR20-700 was replaced with the HR-24?

I don't really care about the newfound speed for the guide, the faster channel changing capability or the greater HDD size if audio drop-outs are to become a big issue for me.
So, should I leave well enough alone in this room right now and wait to move the HR-24 in here when it's ready for prime time?

I can't believe I have to ask this question after being so excited about finally getting what I thought was a worthy replacement!


----------



## camo

I think the main problem is the audio stream. Speed channel right now, "All out pinks" I'm getting 1 drop out every 5 minutes no buffering or watching recording on HR24. My local FSN I watched a full baseball game and zero dropouts. Flip over to speed and see if your getting same thing.


----------



## veryoldschool

bigbrother52 said:


> In my home theater room I currently have an HR20-700 that works extremely well with my particular SSP, meaning that audio dropouts are almost non-detectable and momentary at worst.
> This comming Monday I expect 3 HR-24's will be installed and was going to shuffle this great old HR20-700 to a much less used room.
> Since the quality of audio is of paramount importance to me in this room and the whole house is MRV capable anyway, will I notice a big decline in performance if the HR20-700 was replaced with the HR-24?
> 
> I don't really care about the newfound speed for the guide, the faster channel changing capability or the greater HDD size if audio drop-outs are to become a big issue for me.
> So, should I leave well enough alone in this room right now and wait to move the HR-24 in here when it's ready for prime time?
> 
> I can't believe I have to ask this question after being so excited about finally getting what I thought was a worthy replacement!


The HR24 will stream MRV without any issues.
"For me" the DD5.1 dropout every 4-5 mins has pushed me back to my HR20. It will play all recordings from the HR24 without any problems.
The HR24 may not bug you as much as it does me. Live playback is fine.
Streaming to another receiver is fine.
Streaming from another receiver has these too.
If you skip through commercials, it may not be as bad, since this most noticeably comes with recordings that don't have commercials and you play them continuously. These are where I can "set my watch" by them, they are so regular.


----------



## bigbrother52

veryoldschool said:


> The HR24 will stream MRV without any issues.
> "For me" the DD5.1 dropout every 4-5 mins has pushed me back to my HR20. It will play all recordings from the HR24 without any problems.
> The HR24 may not bug you as much as it does me. Live playback is fine.
> Streaming to another receiver is fine.


I'm guessing there will be no DVR upgrade for my home theater room if this problem pushed you back to an HR-20. My nerves can't be anymore forgiving then yours, especially when it comes to audio quality in this room.

I'll put the new DVR elseware untill the HR-24's audio issues have been addressed. The quality of audio over DirecTV is bad enough without the additional drop-out issues to concern myself over.

I tried the Speed channel as suggested by Camo and yes audio drop-outs here are more prevelent then I am used to. They are still almost non-detectable and momentary but I doubt that even the software in my SSP that is meant to amelorate audio issues caused by high jitter sources, such as DirecTV, can make the problems with HR-24 disappear...sure is a pity.


----------



## veryoldschool

bigbrother52 said:


> I'm guessing there will be no DVR upgrade for my home theater room if this problem pushed you back to an HR-20. My nerves can't be anymore forgiving then yours, especially when it comes to audio quality in this room.
> 
> I'll put the new DVR elseware untill the HR-24's audio issues have been addressed. The quality of audio over DirecTV is bad enough without the additional drop-out issues to concern myself over.
> 
> I tried the Speed channel as suggested by Camo and yes audio drop-outs here are more prevelent then I am used to. They are still almost non-detectable and momentary but I doubt that even the software in my SSP that is meant to amelorate audio issues caused by high jitter sources, such as DirecTV, can make the problems with HR-24 disappear...sure is a pity.


FWIW: they don't happen with DD5.1 turned off. They are very short, but if you're "into" surround sound and it quits, even for a moment, it has disrupted the sense you were in.
While these aren't the same as those like SpeedTV, once they get under your skin and you know it isn't the feed that is the cause, and you're trying to be immersed in a movie, it can/does drive you nuts.


----------



## Davenlr

veryoldschool said:


> FWIW: they don't happen with DD5.1 turned off. They are very short, but if you're "into" surround sound and it quits, even for a moment, it has disrupted the sense you were in.
> While these aren't the same as those like SpeedTV, once they get under your skin and you know it isn't the feed that is the cause, and you're trying to be immersed in a movie, it can/does drive you nuts.


Do they make any 5.1 amps that dont "Drop" the audio (DD light goes off, unit has to resync itself) ? Im thinking that these dropouts (which I can hear for very very very short periods) with dd5.1 turned off, wouldnt be so bad if the AVR didnt take so long to regroup.


----------



## veryoldschool

Davenlr said:


> Do they make any 5.1 amps that dont "Drop" the audio (DD light goes off, unit has to resync itself) ? Im thinking that these dropouts (which I can hear for very very very short periods) with dd5.1 turned off, wouldnt be so bad if the AVR didnt take so long to regroup.


The AVR has so much to do with how well or not this works.
I've got a very fast reacting/recovering Sony.
Some of these dropouts are so short I can barely [if at all] hear them, and only the Sony shows they happened, but others are worse.
This varies but "maybe" 40% I only see the AVR show they happened and the other 60% I hear, then look over and see the AVR scroll the change in its window.
Over the past several months, I've tracked these for DirecTV. They do have a rep rate [shown by the AVR], but for those that I hear, there can be four in a row, then 3 I don't hear, then 6 I do again, so if going just by your ear, you may not see the pattern that the AVR shows.
Same AVR is used with my HR20 and has ZERO audio dropouts playing the same recordings via MRV to the HR20.
The HR24 live doesn't do this, but back up into the buffer and they are then happening.
I get the feeling if you use trickplay it can reset the clock too, since DD5.1 stops during trickplay.
Continuous play from the buffer, the drive or streaming from the network, shows these off the best [worst].


----------



## bigbrother52

veryoldschool said:


> FWIW: they don't happen with DD5.1 turned off.


Ha!!
Yeah "upgrading" an HR20-700 to an HR24 isn't exactly what I'd call an upgrade if I lose Dolby Digital 5.1 capability in the process. That is a down-grade by any reasonable definition of the word.

Dolby pro-logic is nice for what it is but it sure ain't no DD 5.1 and I couldn't even consider it, but thanks for this added bit of info.
Also, having to use any of these machines D/A converters along with their analog outputs is not to be considered any type of solution or fix either and a step in the wrong direction as far as I'm concerned.

Still, if you happened to know what chip DirecTV is now using in the HR24 for D/A conversation could you pass that tidbit along here? 
I'd be interested to know if they've even tried to keep up with this aspect of the technology. 
I suspect analog audio outputs is one of their lowest priorities and absolute lowest cost would be the only spec in this part of their design. I would not fault them if this were so as it seems to me only 3 people might care.


----------



## djrobx

Yes, the DD 5.1 absolutely sucks with the HR24. I just hope they can fix it with a firmware update - our AT&T U-verse DVR also had this problem. It's been over two years and AT&T has not been able to address the issue (hardware limitation?) .


----------



## veryoldschool

bigbrother52 said:


> Ha!!
> Yeah "upgrading" an HR20-700 to an HR24 isn't exactly what I'd call an upgrade if I lose Dolby Digital 5.1 capability in the process. That is a down-grade by any reasonable definition of the word.
> 
> Dolby pro-logic is nice for what it is but it sure ain't no DD 5.1 and I couldn't even consider it, but thanks for this added bit of info.
> Also, having to use any of these machines D/A converters along with their analog outputs is not to be considered any type of solution or fix either and a step in the wrong direction as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Still, if you happened to know what chip DirecTV is now using in the HR24 for D/A conversation could you pass that tidbit along here?
> I'd be interested to know if they've even tried to keep up with this aspect of the technology.
> I suspect analog audio outputs is one of their lowest priorities and absolute lowest cost would be the only spec in this part of their design. I would not fault them if this were so as it seems to me only 3 people might care.


I don't have much of a clue as to the new chips used, other than they do seem to be different because the coding hasn't crossed over as well as with earlier models.
I don't use analog audio normally, but at the request of DirecTV, did some testing with DD5.1 off and PCM audio, along with using the RCA outputs. Both had zero dropouts. Why or what is causing the repetitive, momentary loss of DD5.1 is strange and yet seems to be unique to the HR24.


----------



## veryoldschool

djrobx said:


> Yes, the DD 5.1 absolutely sucks with the HR24. I just hope they can fix it with a firmware update - our AT&T U-verse DVR also had this problem. It's been over two years and AT&T has not been able to address the issue (hardware limitation?) .


I can't think this is a hardware issue, but seems "merely" a problem with the firmware. I know I've gotten their attention over this, simply from the conversations I've had with engineering.
"I hope" we'll see an update in the near future that addresses this.


----------



## bigbrother52

veryoldschool said:


> I don't have much of a clue as to the new chips used, other than they do seem to be different because the coding hasn't crossed over as well as with earlier models.
> .


Not to take this thread too far off course but.... Wow!!!

I am so blown away by this news, you have no idea.
I did expect that there would be some initial problems, I mean, I do have a very long history with DirecTV so I've experienced what generally goes on with the release of new hardware. 
I don't know why I thought that this box was some kind of an exception and any problems that it had were somehow relatively minor. I bought the hype this time around hook-line and sinker! 
In every post I've read all reports had been so overwhelmingly positive, with people practically climbing over one another trying to get this box any way possible, I'd though for sure it was good enough from the get-go to just replace an HR20-700 without a second thought..
I should've read the "issues" thread before placing an order for 3 new boxes.
The coding hasn't crossed over well for DD 5.1 and reports of drop-outs and that the DD 5.1 just plain sucks, this gives me great pause.

Did I mention I do have an order for 3 new boxes due to be installed on Monday. 
Although my primary concern is just the two areas that I have HR20's and they can stay put, I am disappointed that there seems to be no actual upgrade or replacement for these excellent boxes at this time.

Why all the hoopla over the HR24 if it fails in one of it's 2 primary tasks, those being to deliver a decent picture with decent sound. Anything else that it does that's "cool" is a secondary concern.
And... is it still possible to get 1 good machine out of 3 or am I to believe that one must fail just as miserably as the next at the task of delivering decent audio because it is written in it's code?

Since as you say it is a coding problem and to me it seems DirecTV has staked it's near future on the design of this box, I have no doubt that they will make every effort in correcting these audio issues. It's just the thought of having a box that makes Dolby Digital sound worse then it already does on their system frightens me to no end. DirecTV has been the only pay television service to install in anything one would want to call "state of the art" and now their top of the line box appears to be a failure, at this point in time at least.
I definitely could not install this box in my home theater, it's not what I built the room for and something like this just does not belong here. I also hope this whole post does not come across as elitist as that too, was never my intention.

So,I apologize for the rant, I didn't think when I got involved in this thread that a rant would have even been on the horizon. Since it's 5:40am I even considered waiting until I had slept before posting this thing but I can't even imagine ME being less concerned over this issue, just because I caught a few zzz's
I'd like these 2 questions answered from the 3rd paragraph, if anything good can be said regarding the audio problem....

Thanks for looking in folks. And I hope there are words of encouragement that will soon calm me down.


----------



## camo

Bigbrother your receiver may handle the drop outs better than others. I know how you feel but my HR20 is also bad with my Onkyo. 
Which ever receiver is hooked up to my Onkyo receiver seems just as bad in my opinion. If I hook directly to TV's the drop out is barely noticeable. Since the main problem seems to be in the audio Dolby 5.1 stream you can turn Dolby off and run simulated Dolby with PCM. My Onkyo does this rather well but it's not for the purest that wants the best sound possible.


----------



## veryoldschool

bigbrother52 said:


> Why all the hoopla over the HR24 if it fails in one of it's 2 primary tasks, those being to deliver a decent picture with decent sound?


I like the HR24 and don't have any video issues with mine at all.
Most of my viewing is through HDMI to my TV, since surround sound isn't needed for a lot of my programing and not all HD has DD5.1.
The TV will have these dropouts, but with all the skipping through commercials "I'd guess" I only get one dropout between them, as this [trickplay] seems to restart the clock for these.
This was kind of how this problem slipped by in early testing [at least by me].
I didn't start to focus on this until I started watching _The Pacific_ from HBO, and then it still took a while to narrow it down to what I've posted here.
I'm not trying to blow smoke here. Hell, I'm posting about it and where/when it happens.
At the same time, I'm not sure your rant describes it accurately either.


----------



## BKC

bigbrother52 said:


> *I have no doubt that they will make every effort in correcting these audio issues*.


If the past is any indicator of the future on this, I wouldn't count on that happening.


----------



## aldamon

Dropout after dropout during Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Even my wife is asking questions now. WAF RED ALERT!


----------



## sigma1914

aldamon said:


> Dropout after dropout during Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Even my wife is asking questions now. WAF RED ALERT!


None on our ABC HD feed.


----------



## aldamon

sigma1914 said:


> None on our ABC HD feed.


Yeah, this seems to be a local issue unrelated to the regular dropouts. There were just too many of them. I just switched the national ABC HD feed on Channel 396 and the dropouts are mostly gone. I think our local ABC11 just stinks. I wish I had done this a few rounds earlier in the playoffs.


----------



## BKC

The next NBA season starts next week, you can do it then.


----------



## sheureka

My ABC feed out of Tucson has been jumping around and losing audio all during the playoffs. But now the feed is completely gone! I've got a gray screen and that's it. All the other channels are fine. I'm furious. - sheureka


----------



## SuperZ06

aldamon said:


> Dropout after dropout during Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Even my wife is asking questions now. WAF RED ALERT!


+1


----------



## SuperZ06

aldamon said:


> Yeah, this seems to be a local issue unrelated to the regular dropouts. There were just too many of them. I just switched the national ABC HD feed on Channel 396 and the dropouts are mostly gone. I think our local ABC11 just stinks. I wish I had done this a few rounds earlier in the playoffs.


I was wondering if this was the case. During the game the dropouts did not cause my receiver to switch off DD as it does during the dropouts on SPEED or ESPN.


----------



## swans

veryoldschool said:


> I can't think this is a hardware issue, but seems "merely" a problem with the firmware. I know I've gotten their attention over this, simply from the conversations I've had with engineering.
> "I hope" we'll see an update in the near future that addresses this.


Dear DirecTV engineering, please fix the audio issue with your HD-DVRs. Amen.


----------



## HarryD

aldamon said:


> Dropout after dropout during Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Even my wife is asking questions now. WAF RED ALERT!


Was it drop-outs or controlled by ABC... were they using the seven second delay... blank out the language...??


----------



## aldamon

HarryD said:


> Was it drop-outs or controlled by ABC... were they using the seven second delay... blank out the language...??


The dropouts on ABC11 were insane. At one point it was happening every couple of minutes, including commercials. Way worse than the typical dropouts in this thread. ABC7 wasn't perfect but was watchable/listenable at least. And yes, some were from the censor but I'm not counting those.



SuperZ06 said:


> I was wondering if this was the case. During the game the dropouts did not cause my receiver to switch off DD as it does during the dropouts on SPEED or ESPN.


Yes, this is what we experienced when we switched to ABC7. The receiver never lost a signal like all of the other dropouts.

How sad is it that we have to classify and organize the cause of dropouts? We have no baseline for good performance.


----------



## camo

All the channels I like have drop outs. People that aren't having problems apparently don't have a home surround system. Speed channel is basically un-watchable at night, with Dolby turned on. 
I did a Google search on Direct TV audio drop outs and this issue has been going on since 1994 with 1000's of topics complaints etc. I'm asking myself now why did I not do my home work before going from Dish to Direct. This problem will never get fixed.


----------



## iainleaver

iainleaver said:


> It give the appearance at least of being the receiver
> 
> As stated, I can be watching a show in Hi def & everythig is ok
> 
> I pause the show and then start watching from the buffer and the dropouts start almost instantly (short and long ones - sometimes it stays dropped out until i pause and restart again)
> 
> If i fast forward to real time the drop out stop.
> 
> Other time a recorded Hi def show will have the same drop outs. Stopping the show and reboot in the receiver will sometimes fix the problem - the drop out which were present before the reboot will have gone
> 
> This does not happen every-time but it happens often enough that we are not really watching recorded Hi Def shows anymore - we try to watch shows we care about at the time they are broadcast (its taken some time to get used to watching tv like this again!)
> 
> I have seriously considered changing providers but I have an RV which we use a receiver in when we camp - I can't do this with anyone else!
> 
> Iain


Update on my situation

DirecTV came out and repeaked my dish - this did not fix the problem with the dropouts. Following this they sent a replacement HR20-700 and this has not had the above issue for the last week

It does appear that my issue was not the same as the one most of you have and a replacement receiver fixed it - probably a drive issue

Iain


----------



## betterdan

Good to hear your issue was solved. 

Unfortunately mine continues with live and recorded material on the HD channels only.


----------



## djrobx

> I can't think this is a hardware issue, but seems "merely" a problem with the firmware. I know I've gotten their attention over this, simply from the conversations I've had with engineering.


Glad to hear you're communicating with them on this issue. I certainly hope it's fixable in software.


----------



## ke3ju

I never had this problem before MRV came out of beta. Now it's all the time...I've gotten used to switching CC on briefly to know what's going on in what ever we're watching...


----------



## camo

ke3ju said:


> I never had this problem before MRV came out of beta. Now it's all the time...I've gotten used to switching CC on briefly to know what's going on in what ever we're watching...


:lol::lol:


----------



## jacques 99

My child and I were watching Ben10 on Cartoon Network this morning...the frequency of the dropouts were so severe, I felt it was unwatchable.


----------



## dbrowning

Like camo, I should have done a little research about the drop outs with direct, but who would of ever thought about audio dropouts. When with dish there never were any and I basically watch the same programs.


----------



## thatsgreat

I am going to cancel Showtime because the audio drop outs are so bad and probably cancel service all together because it's bad when I have to resort to CC to see what I missed.


----------



## veryoldschool

thatsgreat said:


> I am going to cancel Showtime because the audio drop outs are so bad and probably cancel service all together because it's bad when I have to resort to CC to see what I missed.


Instead of using CC, have you tried turning off Dolby? While this isn't the "best fix", it should help.


----------



## sigma1914

thatsgreat said:


> I am going to cancel Showtime because the audio drop outs are so bad and probably cancel service all together because it's bad when I have to resort to CC to see what I missed.


If you enjoy the series and networked units, then you can use On Demand to download them with no dropouts.


----------



## texasbrit

jacques 99 said:


> My child and I were watching Ben10 on Cartoon Network this morning...the frequency of the dropouts were so severe, I felt it was unwatchable.


The audio on Cartoon Network HD has been screwed up for months, first one issue then another. I have complained to the network several times but never got a response.


----------



## dunebuggybrian

I've been putting up with occasional 5 second audio only drop outs since october of 08. These happen with live and recorded programs on several channels (mostly SPEED). I recorded a program on Science channel and watched it later. During the show there was a scientific equation described when an audio drop out ocurred. I was miffed. I took a few deep breaths and thought "what would the analog output sound like". So I operated my ONKYO avr to use the analog out from the HR22-100, and rewound the show back to before the audio drop out. I played the show segment through and was able to hear all the narrator's words. Whew! though this was in analog stereo only. I now have done a comparison between all digital outputs vs analog, and find that L+R analog out is flawless. So I conclude that the audio drop out problem "I get" is introduced in the back end of the DTS circuit of the HR units.


----------



## veryoldschool

dunebuggybrian said:


> So I conclude that the audio drop out problem "I get" is introduced in the back end of the DTS circuit of the HR units.


Doesn't this really only prove it's a Dolby problem?


----------



## thatsgreat

sigma1914 said:


> If you enjoy the series and networked units, then you can use On Demand to download them with no dropouts.


One of the shows I was watching was The Tudors. It's finale was tonight, and everytime I watch it I experience about 8 drop outs. What is the difference between the encoding of On Demand as opposed to watching it "live" or recorded from Showtime? I will download one before I cancel just to verify there isn't any drop outs occuring on the On Demand version. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## thatsgreat

veryoldschool said:


> Instead of using CC, have you tried turning off Dolby? While this isn't the "best fix", it should help.


Thanks for the tip, but I have tried this and I don't like the sound as good with the DD turned off. I have a Pioneer SC-05 receiver so I know it does a good job of processing, but when I turn it back on (DD) it just sounds a lot better to my ears, except of course for the stupid drop outs. And, it bothers me to think about how much I pay per month to watch tv and I have to make concessions in my viewing experience. I have spent many a thousands of dollars in my theater room and this just aggrevates the crap out of me if I can't enjoy it to it's fullest potential. If programing was free I wouldn't complain a bit.


----------



## sigma1914

thatsgreat said:


> One of the shows I was watching was The Tudors. It's finale was tonight, and everytime I watch it I experience about 8 drop outs. What is the difference between the encoding of On Demand as opposed to watching it "live" or recorded from Showtime? I will download one before I cancel just to verify there isn't any drop outs occuring on the On Demand version. Thanks for the tip.


I'm not sure why it has no issues. It also has just a verrrry small difference in PQ, with the on demand being a tad crisper.


----------



## veryoldschool

sigma1914 said:


> I'm not sure why it has no issues. It also has just a verrrry small difference in PQ, with the on demand being a tad crisper.


Just a WAG here, but SAT feeds are transcoded on the fly, while on demand isn't and can have multiple passes for recoding.


----------



## dunebuggybrian

Thanks "veryoldschool" for vigilantly waving the dolby on/off option flag. I have many surround mode options while using the digital pcm bitstream connection to the HR22. It had been awhile since I used it, so I forgot how I had liked the different "surround feel". I'm now using PCM as my default choice and will turn on dolby when I just "have to" hear a movie or show in that surround mode.
Gee! Do you suppose anyone from corporate dolby reads these threads?


----------



## veryoldschool

dunebuggybrian said:


> Gee! Do you suppose anyone from corporate dolby reads these threads?


I do know [through the mods] that engineering was reading this thread, "but" now that it's over a thousand posts, :shrug:


----------



## knoxbh

Watching 614 (ESPNU) college world series and getting audio dropouts quite consistently. Have Dolby Digital "on". When turning it "off", the dropouts disappear. Using HR20-700 with sound to an Onkyo A/V receiver.


----------



## swdude12

I decided to give the digital audio a try, Coaxial and Optical. I am getting audio drop outs every so often, where the audio will just cut out and go silent for a second or 3. It will also pick it up when im watching recorded stuff. I have never had this problem with just the RCA's hooked up but i am having the problem with both digital Coaxial and Optical. my set up is below.

Hr-22/100 hooked up HDMI directly to Panasonic
Hr-22 hooked up by Digital coax and/or Optical directly to Onkyo HT-R550

all cables are from Monoprice

I also have my 360 hooked up Optical directly to the Onkyo and have not heard any drop outs as of yet.

DO THE NEW HR24's experience this problem? it is annoying as hell


----------



## camo

swdude12 said:


> DO THE NEW HR24's experience this problem? it is annoying as hell


Yes, but the HR24 also has a second audio issue making it even worse if you can believe it. Check out the HR24 area and it's covered.


----------



## nccasinc

I've experienced the audio drop outs for well over a year. With the advice of this thread I sent an email to ellen and refered back to this thread. My wife received a phone call later in the day (for I'm at work) asking numerios questions about how long, when and what channels. Got a phone call back a few hours later and wanted to schedule an appointment. They stated that after talking with the engineers they feel the issue is on our end and not theirs. Wow! You'd think that by now they would figure out they had an issue and not the customer. When you have three DVR's, two of which are connected to AV receivers that experience the drop outs and a third connected directly to a TV mostly without drop outs the problem would be on their side. When I turn off the Dolby, all is well but the sound stinks!....Anyway they scheduled a tech for Friday.. We'll just have to see how that goes.


----------



## gphvid

I have experienced audio dropouts but generally on Showtime. I do record SciFi and other channels but Showtime seemed to have it bad. But when I played back my records of the last two episodes of The Tudors, the frequency of drops seems to have lessened. In fact, as I recall, with the series finale Sunday from a record off Sho West, the one drop occured right at the beginning and the whole episode was clear. Maybe things are finally improving on this issue? One can hope...


----------



## bob13654

This is a long thread. I haven't ordered D* yet, so I have a question. If I hook up a DVR directly to my TV via HDMI and choose something other than DD (I don't know what D*'s audio options are, but my cable DVR allows DD or PCM) then I won't have this problem? I only watch some programing through my Pioneer receiver, but mostly I watch though my TV's speakers. I really would hate to sign a two year agreement and find that I am forced to live with this problem.


----------



## veryoldschool

bob13654 said:


> This is a long thread. I haven't ordered D* yet, so I have a question. If I hook up a DVR directly to my TV via HDMI and choose something other than DD (I don't know what D*'s audio options are, but my cable DVR allows DD or PCM) then I won't have this problem? I only watch some programing through my Pioneer receiver, but mostly I watch though my TV's speakers. I really would hate to sign a two year agreement and find that I am forced to live with this problem.


This thread is very long, so I'll try to give you the cliff notes:
Yes, turning off Dolby and using PCM will reduce this problem.
Some program suppliers can still have a crappy feed, that even this doesn't overcome. This seems to be mostly with live sports and from their remote feed to their collection center.


----------



## bob13654

veryoldschool said:


> This thread is very long, so I'll try to give you the cliff notes:
> Yes, turning off Dolby and using PCM will reduce this problem.
> Some program suppliers can still have a crappy feed, that even this doesn't overcome. This seems to be mostly with live sports and from their remote feed to their collection center.


So you are saying that setting to PCM will help, but that you can't totally avoid this issue?

Using PCM, on a scale of 1-10, how bad would this problem be? I may be unhappy with my backwards cable co, their lack of features and channels, but at least the picture and sound do work on the channels I get. I really want to make the switch to D* and get more for my money, but this has me worried.


----------



## BKC

Don't believe the problem is just with live sports. It's with everything HD. Showtime, HGTV, Science channel, Speed rebroadcasts from races five years ago, National Geographic are channels I see it on all the time just to mention a few. There are many more channels too. Make sure you call.

Edit: Oops, I guess you can't call and complain if you aren't a customer yet. :lol:


----------



## veryoldschool

bob13654 said:


> So you are saying that setting to PCM will help, but that you can't totally avoid this issue?
> 
> Using PCM, on a scale of 1-10, how bad would this problem be? I may be unhappy with my backwards cable co, their lack of features and channels, but at least the picture and sound do work on the channels I get. I really want to make the switch to D* and get more for my money, but this has me worried.


I don't want to spin this in any way [for or against].
The worst cases of live sports, if they are on the remote feed to the providers collection point, most likely would have the same problems with CATV. "Garbage in = garbage out".
Now for the other programs:
This really comes down to which channels you're watching, as for whether this happens or how bad it does. This is further complicated by the AVR you're using, since some react worst to this problem than others.
Now what the problem seems to be is the transcoding of the MPEG-2 feed into MPEG-4 [which DirecTV uses]. This is where the Dolby on/off does make a difference, as the DD 5.1 is the most sensitive and the AVRs shift/drop the DD 5.1, shift to PCM, then reacquire the DD 5.1. This back and forth can be eliminated by turning Dolby off.
I leave Dolby on, use both HDMI to my TV and have digital to my AVR, for the times I want surround sound.
With the shows/channels "I watch", these aren't that bad. I do hear a few dropouts, and while they do bother me, they haven't reached the level of being a major annoyance [to me].
There are other channels [posted in this thread] that are more annoying and I'm sure if I was watching these, I'd be more annoyed and would shift to Dolby off to reduce this.
I'm afraid no one here can give you the true answer(s) to your questions, as we all watch different channels and at different times.


----------



## bills

BKC said:


> Well that's two of I guess. It's starting to get pretty old... :lol:


 oh, i don't think it get's old,i get dropout all the time on most Chanel's. it is a nuisance


----------



## jimmie57

Steveknj said:


> I have an Onkyo receiver, so you are saying to run the TV sound ALONG with the receiver sound? I've done that accidentally before, and it seems I get an echoing effect.


I tried running the TV speakers and my surround Yamaha receiver and got the same results.
By setting the sound delay to 80 miliseconds it puts them in snych with the TV speakers. Another plus for this is that the lip synch is much better now than before.


----------



## Boston_bill

Is it just me or do the dropouts seem to happen more on ABC/ESPN ?


----------



## joed32

It seems to be different for everyone. I get them on ESPN and Speed, nowhere else.


----------



## jimmie57

joed32 said:


> It seems to be different for everyone. I get them on ESPN and Speed, nowhere else.


I get them on multiple channels including CNBC, ESPN, ABC, etc.
It happens most when the program is being recorded , it stops and they play commercials for five minutes and then the program comes back. Just a short time after that is when it seems to hapen to me. This is on the HR23 DVR that I am using.
My son has the H21 HD receiver ( no DVR ) and he says it never happens to him unless we have bad weather and the picture starts to go out also.


----------



## bjamin82

I got another call from the "Office of the President" today... they confirmed they are working on identifying the issue, but still no resolution. ugh :-(


----------



## jimmie57

I did an experiment today. I recorded Fast Money on CNBC. It had several voice drops. I paid close attention to the front of my Yamaha receiver and I saw a flicker in the Dolby Digital words in the front panel at each of the voice drops.
Then, I switched my DirecTV receiver to Dolby Digital to "OFF" and reran the program. With the Digital off I get Pro Logic sound. This was recorded today. Zero voice drops with Digital set to off. I turned it back on again and replayed the same recording. There came the voice drops again.

This is definitely a "Dolby Digital" in the DirecTV HD DVR problem.


----------



## veryoldschool

jimmie57 said:


> This is definitely a "Dolby Digital" in the DirecTV HD DVR problem.


It is a "Dolby" problem/issue, but not in the DirecTV HD DVR. 
To this point, it happens in the non DVR MPEG-4 receivers too, and is from the MPEG-4 encoders used on the uplink end.


----------



## lotbass

Has anyone tried something like this...
http://www.lipfix.com/lip_sync_error.html
which is a device called the Felstron DD740 that lets you adjust the audio delay (~$250)

or this...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...23&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=6#faq
which is a device called "Optical Toslink to Coaxial (RCA) Digital Audio Converter" (~$12)

to see if they help?


----------



## veryoldschool

lotbass said:


> Has anyone tried something like this...
> http://www.lipfix.com/lip_sync_error.html
> which is a device called the Felstron DD740 that lets you adjust the audio delay (~$250)
> 
> or this...
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...23&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=6#faq
> which is a device called "Optical Toslink to Coaxial (RCA) Digital Audio Converter" (~$12)
> 
> to see if they help?


What your first link says it does, can be done in most AVRs, so why would you want to buy it?
Your second link wouldn't have any affect on the issue/topic of this thread.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

I was watching Deadliest Catch last night and the audio drops were horrible. I think I had about six of them throughout the show last night. I have an HR-22 connected to a Onkyo TX-SR705 AVR via HDMI, with Dolby Digital on.

My parents also get the same problem with an HR-21 connected to an Onkyo TX-SR707 via HDMI.


----------



## BKC

It's only been 8 months, give them a little time. lol


----------



## jpitlick

I've only noticed audio drops on my HR20-700. My HR22-100 does not seem to have the problem. I am still doing some testing, but I don't think the issue is an input issue. I need to watch more things on my HR22, especially shows recorded on my HR20 to conclude this theory.


----------



## lotbass

veryoldschool said:


> What your first link says it does, can be done in most AVRs, so why would you want to buy it?
> Your second link wouldn't have any affect on the issue/topic of this thread.


Based on feedback in this thread, the symptom MAY vary depending on the AVR used. IF that is accurate, then the electronics in the AVR are making a difference. (Ex: some AVRs may take less time to recover from an audio drop/DD signal loss/etc, may have better error handling, or similar). That means the electronics in one of these items may have a different behavior than the AVR someone already has. Of course, @ ~$250 for the 1st item, folks may prefer to switch to a different AVR.


----------



## veryoldschool

lotbass said:


> Based on feedback in this thread, the symptom MAY vary depending on the AVR used. IF that is accurate, then the electronics in the AVR are making a difference.


I think we can safely say it does vary with which AVR is being used.
I know my old Sony was very good at both losing & regaining the DD 5.1. It would show the shortest dropouts, that sometimes I couldn't even hear. DirecTV has sent me a loaner Sony, which doesn't show the dropouts anywhere near as often, even when my ears tell me they're there.
This loaner came so I could send off my old one to them for use in troubleshooting the problems with the HR24.


----------



## mickcris

jpitlick said:


> I've only noticed audio drops on my HR20-700. My HR22-100 does not seem to have the problem. I am still doing some testing, but I don't think the issue is an input issue. I need to watch more things on my HR22, especially shows recorded on my HR20 to conclude this theory.


Probably not going to notice them on your hr22 if you still have it hooked up the way it shows in your sig ,due to the hr22 connected directly to the tv and the hr20 to the onkyo receiver. If you swap locations of your dvrs you will probably see that the problem stay at the location.


----------



## bigbrother52

lotbass said:


> Has anyone tried something like this...
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...23&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=6#faq
> which is a device called "Optical Toslink to Coaxial (RCA) Digital Audio Converter" (~$12)
> 
> to see if they help?


I believe VOS was speculating that this thing wouldn't do any good but one of my DVR's is actually set up with HDMI going to a Video Processor from an HR20-700, that then converts the audio and outputs to optical and coaxial.

I have taken those signals and output them to yet another device that reduces jitter. That device can also convert optical to coaxial and visa versa.

I can tell you with all confidence, none of it will do you any good in trying to eliminate these kinds of audio drop-outs.


----------



## jrwinter

has anyone else noticed the low volume levels on most of the channels on Directv? is there any way to get them to turn it back up?


----------



## john18

I repeatedly have had the audio dropout issue on both a prior Integra receiver and my Onkyo TX-SR806 when viewing recorded programming in Dolby Digital. The dropouts that I see generally last 1-3 seconds.


----------



## jpitlick

mickcris said:


> Probably not going to notice them on your hr22 if you still have it hooked up the way it shows in your sig ,due to the hr22 connected directly to the tv and the hr20 to the onkyo receiver. If you swap locations of your dvrs you will probably see that the problem stay at the location.


So, you think the problem is caused by the Onkyo. I just might have to switch the locations around and test that. I used to experience a different kind of audio drop with the Onkyo when there was a glitch in the sat feed durning inclement weather, but the Onkyo would switch between Dolby Digital and PCM and you could hear the relay click when that happened. This current issue is different.


----------



## varkeast

just want to give another data point

HR20-100
onkyo tx-sr805 (old firmware)

dolby on: frequent audio drops, will see the audio signal drop on the front display of the onkyo (all speakers in the incoming signal display disapper), then the onkyo w/ it's crappy old FW takes 3-5 seconds to lock back on

dolby off: no audio drops at all


since running with dolby off removes the problem


----------



## southface

Obviously, if one turns off Dolby you won't get dropouts because the Dolby signal is the problem. Audio receivers are not the problem. Receivers may behave differently when detecting the Dolby flag but that is not the problem. The Dolby error is the problem. My Pioneer Elite detects the error and causes a dropout. The AVR's are responding as programmed to detect a coherent signal when the Auto switch is on. They will still have a problem when switched to DD only.


----------



## djrobx

> This loaner came so I could send off my old one to them for use in troubleshooting the problems with the HR24.


That's very good to hear. I hope they are able to correct it.


----------



## Noresults

I guess I am missing something. I have had this problem for several months. My contract is up in three months. Does the other sat provider have these problems or do I need to go back to cable? I have HR-21DVR switching thru a Onkyo receiver direct to tv with hdmi?


----------



## BKC

Dish Network does NOT have this problem as far as I know. Call/email them and tell them you are thinking about jumping ship because of this problem.


----------



## joed32

veryoldschool said:


> I think we can safely say it does vary with which AVR is being used.
> I know my old Sony was very good at both losing & regaining the DD 5.1. It would show the shortest dropouts, that sometimes I couldn't even hear. DirecTV has sent me a loaner Sony, which doesn't show the dropouts anywhere near as often, even when my ears tell me they're there.
> This loaner came so I could send off my old one to them for use in troubleshooting the problems with the HR24.


If I hook up any of my DVRs directly to any of my TVs , bypassing the AV receiver, I still get the dropouts. HDMI or red and white composite, it doesn't make any difference. I can not blame the AV receiver for them. If I turn off DD then the dropouts disappear. The AV receiver does not cause them. Even with the AV receiver I have never had a dropout on any movie channel, only ESPN, Speed, etc. I hardly ever watch locals so I'm not sure about those.


----------



## hasan

joed32 said:


> If I hook up any of my DVRs directly to any of my TVs , bypassing the AV receiver, I still get the dropouts. HDMI or red and white composite, it doesn't make any difference. I can not blame the AV receiver for them. If I turn off DD then the dropouts disappear. The AV receiver does not cause them. Even with the AV receiver I have never had a dropout on any movie channel, only ESPN, Speed, etc. I hardly ever watch locals so I'm not sure about those.


I watch USA (242) a lot, and I notice very infrequent, yet persistent drop outs, perhaps one or two an hour, and then only one an hour, so it varies a bit. Sometimes I don't "notice" any. I do have DD 5.1 on, and am using an Onkyo SR605 amp. Two different DVRs show the same issue.

It is only a minor annoyance at this point, but it would be nice if it got fixed.


----------



## veryoldschool

joed32 said:


> If I hook up any of my DVRs directly to any of my TVs , bypassing the AV receiver, I still get the dropouts. HDMI or red and white composite, it doesn't make any difference. I can not blame the AV receiver for them. If I turn off DD then the dropouts disappear. The AV receiver does not cause them. Even with the AV receiver I have never had a dropout on any movie channel, only ESPN, Speed, etc. I hardly ever watch locals so I'm not sure about those.


I really wasn't trying to "blame" the AVR. You are correct about turning Dolby off in the receiver.
The point I was trying to make was: one make/model AVR may only have dropout of less than a second, while another make/model might take longer to glitch & recover.
"The problem" isn't in the AVRs, and in most cases isn't in the DirecTV receiver, but in the SAT feed from the uplink.


----------



## kenkraly2004

I have never had a issue with an audio dropout on my DIRECTV H20 Reciver.


----------



## BKC

kenkraly2004 said:


> I have never had a issue with an audio dropout on my DIRECTV HD-20 Reciver.


You should say a little "thank you" prayer everyday and hope it never starts. :lol:


----------



## kenkraly2004

Indeed BKC.


----------



## ktm250

Whatever is causing this problem, it looks like it is Direct Tv's issue. They need to fix it and not give me the oh we don't have that problem when you talk to them. All I know is that it is getting very irritating.


----------



## MalibuRacing

I have had this issue for some time (both live and recorded shows). I have an Onkyo AVR using optical input. 

I played back a recording, with DD turned on. I would get an audio dropout for 2-3 seconds at a specific point in the recording EVERYTIME. I turned off DD, replayed recording, didn't get dropout. Obviously, there is a DD issue that appears to be on D*'s side. Will this EVER be resolved (without having to spend money on a new AVR)??? 

What's the use in having a 5.1 setup if you can't use it without annoying audio dropouts?


----------



## BKC

Don't buy a new sound system. You will probably be lighter in the wallet and still have the dropouts.


----------



## shocky

Can the issue be fixed by DTV replacing equipment? I just need to know whether or not I should even bother calling CS and having them replace the receiver.


----------



## sigma1914

shocky said:


> Can the issue be fixed by DTV replacing equipment? I just need to know whether or not I should even bother calling CS and having them replace the receiver.


Don't bother.


----------



## BKC

shocky said:


> Can the issue be fixed by DTV replacing equipment? I just need to know whether or not I should even bother calling CS and having them replace the receiver.





sigma1914 said:


> Don't bother.


I agree but please call and complain. Better yet email Ellen and keep it up for months....


----------



## betterdan

I emailed Ellen, she had someone call me, they replaced my HR20-700 and I still have the same problem (just like I figured). I sent my old box back on June 23 which still hasn't been delivered from the tracking info (It's been sitting in MS since June 30th with a destination of Memphis TN). I knew it wouldn't fix my problem but it was the only way they would believe me by having them replace the box. Otherwise they probably just chalk it up to you having a faulty box but you refuse to let them replace it so they just blow it off. Actually in a way I'm glad they replaced it now because it is a little snappier than my original HR20.


----------



## joed32

veryoldschool said:


> I really wasn't trying to "blame" the AVR. You are correct about turning Dolby off in the receiver.
> The point I was trying to make was: one make/model AVR may only have dropout of less than a second, while another make/model might take longer to glitch & recover.
> "The problem" isn't in the AVRs, and in most cases isn't in the DirecTV receiver, but in the SAT feed from the uplink.


I think you're right.


----------



## swans

Why isn't this a bigger issue on this board and with DirecTV?

Do all the great DirecTV "fan boys" on this site not have this issue?:nono2:

Edit:
I watched a recorded episode of Warehouse 13 from SyFy and live Through the Wormhole on SciHD last night with multiple 1-2 second audio drops. I'm noticing this more and more on pretty much all the channels that I watch. I have an HR20-100 connected via digital audio out to a JVC AVR.

Due to the fact that there are so many people complaining about this, with different HD-DVRs and different AVR options, I believe that this is an encoder problem and DirecTV has to know about it!!!


----------



## The Fuzz 53

I just want to throw my hat into the ring to extend the thread and hopefully get Directv to take some action on this.

I have a HR22 connected to an Onkyo TX-SR705 via HDMI and get frequent audio dropouts. I used to have an H23 that did the same thing, until and a firmware update almost completely fixed the problem, going from frequent to very, very rare.

I e-mailed Dolby on the issue since Directv isn't doing anything about it. Maybe knowing that another company is ruining their name and product will get them to take some action.

I can also vouch for my parents who have an HR21 connected to an Onkyo TX-SR707 via HDMI have the same problem and a friend that has an HR21 connected to an Onkyo TX-SR506 via TOSLINK for audio and HDMI for video.


----------



## JeffBowser

Over 1000 postings in this thread alone, and the numerous other threads on this subject don't indicate that this is a big issue on this board? Just because the issue is not dealt with to an individuals personal time-line and satisfaction doesn't mean it's not being handled at all.

I have the issue. However, I don't watch TV enough and for long enough periods for it to bug me enough to get my panties wrapped around my testicles overly tightly. I wish they'd fix it, for sure, but meanwhile, my new AV receiver handles it gracefully enough to not drive me insane.



swans said:


> Why isn't this a bigger issue on this board and with DirecTV?
> 
> Do all the great DirecTV fan boys on this site not have this issue?:nono2:


----------



## solaris3000

I'm having the same Intermittent Audio dropouts on my AV setup as well. I'm using DirecTV's SWM install with the HR-23 and an Onkyo SR607.
My Hr-23 receiver firmware is 0x3de. I'm thinking that this may be design flaw with the chip that drives the DD bitstream within DirecTV's receivers. I just wish they would fix it and put an end to this mess.


----------



## hatchet

Add me to the list as I've noticed the dropouts as well.


----------



## NewView

Yep, add me to the list. 

I've noticed audio dropouts of up to 5 seconds or so on recorded programming from channel 245 TNTHD for quite some time. 

I didn't realize it was as widespread as it is until reading this thread.


----------



## hasan

NewView said:


> Yep, add me to the list.
> 
> I've noticed audio dropouts of up to 5 seconds or so on recorded programming from channel 245 TNTHD for quite some time.
> 
> I didn't realize it was as widespread as it is until reading this thread.


I have an Onkyo SR605, and the audio dropouts run from less than a second, up to about 1 or 2 seconds. They are very infrequent (from a couple an hour, to fewer than 1 in 4 hours), but they do exist.


----------



## bigzeto

Mine are very very frequent depending on the channel.


----------



## hasan

bigzeto said:


> Mine are very very frequent depending on the channel.


During the day, if I am home, I have MSNBC on, and the TV off, so I can listen to the news, so it is the source for my reported frequency. I have heard it on USA network in the evenings, but my viewing habits don't allow a "good" feel for how often.

The one thing we are certain of, at this point, is that it is there, it's not signal related, it's and it's not box related. It appears to be encoder related on the uplink side.

They are very aware of the problem and are working on it. If it were easy to fix, they would have fixed it by now, so, keep reporting, but be patient.


----------



## pecocus

Not sure if there's any value in one more "hat in the ring", but I'm seeing the same thing about once or twice an hour for 1-3 seconds.

Paul


----------



## texasbrit

solaris3000 said:


> I'm having the same Intermittent Audio dropouts on my AV setup as well. I'm using DirecTV's SWM install with the HR-23 and an Onkyo SR607.
> My Hr-23 receiver firmware is 0x3de. I'm thinking that this may be design flaw with the chip that drives the DD bitstream within DirecTV's receivers. I just wish they would fix it and put an end to this mess.


No, it is nothing to do with the receivers. If you look through this thread, particularly at the posts from VOS, you will see that this is almost always caused by problems in the Dolby Digital signals coming from the channels and the effect these problems have on the encoders DirecTV uses to convert MPEG-2 to MPEG-4. 
From time to time there may be other issues that affect the dropout rate (like the current problem - probably firmware-related - with the new HR24) but these are rare.


----------



## shocky

Got a call from a DTV Engineer today asking about my setup. They are investigating and working on the issue with Dobly.

While the problem still remains, I feel comfortable that they acknowledged the issue and are working on resolving it.


----------



## BKC

That's great I got the same call months and months ago. I sure hope it's close....


----------



## anitag0122

I have a few audio dropouts--the most frustrating was almost all of the series finale of 24. My big problem is the very low volume on many of the channels. I have to turn the volume control up all the way to barely be able to hear the program. Then if I'm switching back and forth between live TV and my DVR, the DVR volume blasts and it is really offensive before I'm able to turn the volume down far enough. I thought I had read a previous post where other people are having this problem. I'm in N. E. Pa. and everyone I know with DirecTV is having the same issue.


----------



## john18

The engineers can call me too, or PM me.


----------



## aposner

Just to add one more name to the list. I'm having the same problem. Didn't notice it on my old hr-20 but do on my new hr-24-500.


----------



## veryoldschool

aposner said:


> Just to add one more name to the list. I'm having the same problem. Didn't notice it on my old hr-20 but do on my new hr-24-500.


If you're having these with live TV, then it is the same issue here with the uplink.
On the other hand, if these only happen with recordings and when in the live buffer, then this is a different problem, and the software group is working on to resolve.


----------



## FrozenAsset

Having the same problems in my living room setup.


----------



## BKC

Be sure to call/email repeatedly please. You should be able to get something free if you whine about it, don't be afraid to ask. Maybe if they hand out enough free stuff they'll work on it a little harder. Maybe even put it on the front burner in front of the trinkets.


----------



## jimmie57

I have the Drop Out problem on my DVR and my son is on the same satellite as me and he has an HD receiver and he has the Drop Outs. He and I both are sending our sound thru Yamaha AV receivers and using an Optical cable for tranmission.

If I turn Dolby Digital OFF in the DVR Set Up then I get Pro Logic and get less noticable Drop Outs.

Edit:
Yesterday when I posted this I was getting Drop Outs while watching the Ladies Play Golf about every 2 minutes.
Today, watching the same thing, I think I might have gotten 2 during the whole show.

I checked my software and it is not changed from 6-3 when it was last updated.
That has to be in the transmission of the HD because the SD channels never do this.


----------



## BKC

Yes but it's easier to blame the Dolby Digital signals coming from the channels even though it isn't a problem with Dish. It makes DTV look better if you stick the blame on someone else. :lol:


----------



## bill875

I am also experiencing the dropouts with two HR24-500's. One on a Pioneer Dolby Digital, the other on a Yamaha Dolby Digital receiver. Both are connected via optical cables. This is my biggest complaint since returning to DirecTV last month after suffering with Comcast cable for a number of years. I believe a few phone calls are in order this week.


----------



## jacques 99

bill875 said:


> I am also experiencing the dropouts with two HR24-500's. One on a Pioneer Dolby Digital, the other on a Yamaha Dolby Digital receiver. Both are connected via optical cables. This is my biggest complaint since returning to DirecTV last month after suffering with Comcast cable for a number of years. I believe a few phone calls are in order this week.


Good luck with that...Like the others on this thread, I have been asking DTV to acknowledge and treat the problem. After thinking that things were moving forward, I've now been told that this is a DOLBY problem. And that DTV is not DOLBY. I was told that I should switch the DTV receiver to PCM and contact DOLBY directly.

Nice.


----------



## BKC

jacques 99 said:


> Good luck with that...Like the others on this thread, I have been asking DTV to acknowledge and treat the problem. After thinking that things were moving forward, I've now been told that this is a DOLBY problem. And that DTV is not DOLBY. I was told that I should switch the DTV receiver to PCM and contact DOLBY directly.
> 
> Nice.


You have got to be kidding........ Translation: There isn't enough of you with the problem and we aren't going to spend the money to fix it.


----------



## hasan

BKC said:


> You have got to be kidding........ Translation: There isn't enough of you with the problem and we aren't going to spend the money to fix it.


Before we just accept something that some CSR says, I think it would behoove us to consider the feedback we have gotten from people on the forum in contact with the engineering team. They have said clearly, that they are aware of the problem and are working on it.

I experience the problem several times per day. It's real....at least here. Others report it, quite a few others. The engineering team has acknowledged it via our forum contacts.

So, let's not go running off a cliff. No informed user thinks it should be tolerated (drop out), or that there aren't enough experiencing it. We need to keep reporting it, and let D* work on it. Jumping to unsupported conclusions of abandonment isn't helpful.


----------



## BKC

hasan said:


> Before we just accept something that some CSR says, *I think it would behoove us to consider the feedback we have gotten from people on the forum in contact with the engineering team. They have said clearly, that they are aware of the problem and are working on it. *
> I experience the problem several times per day. It's real....at least here. Others report it, quite a few others. The engineering team has acknowledged it via our forum contacts.
> 
> So, let's not go running off a cliff. No informed user thinks it should be tolerated (drop out), or that there aren't enough experiencing it. We need to keep reporting it, and let D* work on it. Jumping to unsupported conclusions of abandonment isn't helpful.


I am one of those people and have spoken with them several times. At first they tell you that they don't have a problem. Then they finally admit they have a problem. Then they tell you it should be fixed in a couple weeks. Then they tell you they are aware of the problem and are working on it. It's been since last October I have been in contact with them. Normally they tell you anything that they think you want to hear and maybe give you three months of free Showtime that is filled with dropouts. Nine months is a long long time of "working on it".


----------



## swans

swans said:


> Why isn't this a bigger issue on this board and with DirecTV?
> 
> Do all the great DirecTV "fan boys" on this site not have this issue?:nono2:
> 
> Edit:
> I watched a recorded episode of Warehouse 13 from SyFy and live Through the Wormhole on SciHD last night with multiple 1-2 second audio drops. I'm noticing this more and more on pretty much all the channels that I watch. I have an HR20-100 connected via digital audio out to a JVC AVR.
> 
> Due to the fact that there are so many people complaining about this, with different HD-DVRs and different AVR options, I believe that this is an encoder problem and DirecTV has to know about it!!!


----------



## bills

it is really bad the dropouts,this has been going on since last october i believe,how long does it take to correct?


----------



## BKC

swans said:


>


----------



## hasan

BKC said:


> I am one of those people and have spoken with them several times. At first they tell you that they don't have a problem. Then they finally admit they have a problem. Then they tell you it should be fixed in a couple weeks. Then they tell you they are aware of the problem and are working on it. It's been since last October I have been in contact with them. Normally they tell you anything that they think you want to hear and maybe give you three months of free Showtime that is filled with dropouts. Nine months is a long long time of "working on it".


Who is "they"? IF it's a CSR, then I wouldn't put much stock in anything they say, as they are notoriously unreliable. If the problem were easy to fix, it would have been fixed by now. The engineering team knows about it, and they are reportedly (from reliable sources) working on it.

As I said before, keep reporting, and those of us in the CE group will keep testing and reporting, while trying to remain patient. It does you nor anyone else any good to get their blood pressure up over this.

It *is* a problem, to be sure. D* doesn't want it that way, and most certainly neither do we. It's going to take a lot of data points to try to isolate the problem. In my circumstance it varies from several times per hour to once every two or three hours. That can be hard to chase down, despite the best of efforts.


----------



## betterdan

BKC said:


> I am one of those people and have spoken with them several times. At first they tell you that they don't have a problem. Then they finally admit they have a problem.


Yep, same thing happened with me and that is what pisses me off. If they know they have a problem they need to stop trying to cover it up and admit it then fix it.
I spoke with someone that called me after I sent an email off to Ellen complaining and he told me there was no problem with Directv since he didn't have the problem at home and neither did any of his family or friends. 
He sent me a different HR20 and what do you know? Same problem. I emailed Ellen again complaining and she had someone else call me and the next guy admitted there was a national problem. Why on Earth did the first guy lie to me then and if he didn't lie why was it so hard for him to find out if there was a national problem that was known? :nono2:
Another thing, I told the second guy it seems like this problem started happening about the time they enabled Double Play. He asked me what Double Play was, he had no clue. Very sad.


----------



## BKC

hasan said:


> Who is "they"? IF it's a CSR, then I wouldn't put much stock in anything they say, as they are notoriously unreliable. If the problem were easy to fix, it would have been fixed by now. The engineering team knows about it, and they are reportedly (from reliable sources) working on it.
> 
> As I said before, keep reporting, and those of us in the CE group will keep testing and reporting, while trying to remain patient. It does you nor anyone else any good to get their blood pressure up over this.
> 
> It *is* a problem, to be sure. D* doesn't want it that way, and most certainly neither do we. It's going to take a lot of data points to try to isolate the problem. In my circumstance it varies from several times per hour to once every two or three hours. That can be hard to chase down, despite the best of efforts.


Who really knows for sure who you are talking to? THEY said they were engineers but I seriously have my doubts. THEY tell you anything that makes you feel important and tell you how much the info you gathered for them is going to help solve the problem. THEY have told me it would be "fixed sooner rather than later" THEY told me it would be fixed in a couple weeks several months ago. I could go on but you must have the point by now.

And yes, those of us in the CE group like myself have been testing for months...............


----------



## mjbvideo

If THEY are real engineers and THEY ask what double play is then that pretty much explains why some of us are experiencing all these fun (NOT!) problems. I have a hunch that these might just be glorified CSR's and if that is the case then they're misrepresenting DirecTV if they claim to be engineers.


----------



## RAD

I recorded Eureka last Friday on a HR23-700 and HR24-500. 

When I played it back listening via an Onkyo TX-NR901 receiver with DD enabled from the local recording on a HR24, there were a couple points where I had the audio drop, lasted for a second or so. Looking at the Onkyo's front panel the indicators that showed what audio mode it was playing in went out when the audio dropped, then came back on when the audio returned. 

Using MRV I played back the recording from the HR23, also had the drop. When I turned off the Onkyo and just used the TV's speakers I could hear a VERY short audio 'blurp/blip'. I played back the same drop via a Sony STR-DA50ES and two other TV's and all of them had the same very short audio issue but never dropped the audio as long as the Onkyo did.


----------



## tullbent

I just bought a new SONY ex500 replacing my SONY SXRD and I now have audio dropouts on both my hd dvrs. I never had the issue with the SXRD. Using the same hdmi cable on both.


----------



## rainbowblack

I've had this issue on a bunch of channels on my hr24-500 for weeks since they added the new channels. If I switch to pcm it goes away. It's only a fraction of a second on my system but it happens every 5 or 10 minutes. For the money i spend to supposedly have the best TV available, this is an absolute joke. I called and they basically said they didn't know anything about it.


----------



## Matt L

This has been annoying me for weeks, just bothered to look for a thread on the topic. Looks like I'm not alone. It seems to be getting worse and it affects all my receivers. They are all connected to AVRs either by HDMI or optical. All are DD 5.1 receivers. Never use the TVs internal speakers so I can't comment on that.


----------



## Dave in Atlanta

I visited this thread because I experienced numerous (and very irritating) audio dropouts for the first time in my DirecTV experience this week.

My setup is much simpler than most of yours - just an HR20-700 feeding a Samsung DLP via HDMI and a Sony receiver via optical. It's worked flawlessly for 3+ years. DTV made a visit a couple of weeks ago to replace a bad coax cable, and all systems were thoroughly checked at the time. I do get the new HD channels, and haven't had any problem.

Then, Monday night, watching a slightly delayed version of The Closer (delayed as in it was recording as we were watching about 30 minutes behind live) the dropouts started. Each about 5 - 10 seconds, occurring about 20 times throughout the program. Very annoying. And hasn't happened since.

Great to know that DTV thinks this isn't a problem...since the thread is fairly long. Count me in.


----------



## BKC

This is a little better than calling IMHO, you can keep a running email with this office and just hit reply. It cuts down on the BS excuses they come up with when they read back and can see what they have already told you over the months. [email protected]


----------



## veryoldschool

rainbowblack said:


> I've had this issue on a bunch of channels on my* hr24-500 *for weeks since they added the new channels. *If I switch to pcm it goes away*. It's only a fraction of a second on my system but it happens every *5 or 10 minutes*. For the money i spend to supposedly have the best TV available, this is an absolute joke. I called and they basically said they didn't know anything about it.


The CSRs don't know anything about this. The software folks do though and hopefully are working on a firmware update to resolve this.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

I just sent a link to this thread and some details on the issue to consumerist.com, who loves to bring any issue telecom companies have out into the open. Maybe some public embarrassment will jump-start both DirecTV and Dolby into getting this BS fixed.


----------



## BKC

Very cool!


----------



## hasan

Just confirming the obvious, that this is a DD issue (non-HR24 audio drop outs).

I have an analog connection from my HR20-700 to an RF set of headphones. I noticed a DD 5.1 audio drop-out on the main speakers (through the 5.1 amp), while wearing the headphones, There was no drop-out on the headphones.


----------



## anitag0122

The volume is so low on most channels that, even turning it up as far as it will go, makes it barely audible. DirecTV says they are aware of the problem and "are working on it". They suggest changing cables which I know nothing about. I guess the way I feel is, if I'm paying a monthly charge, I should be able to expect that everything will work the way it should.


----------



## veryoldschool

hasan said:


> Just confirming the obvious, that this is a DD issue (non-HR24 audio drop outs).


Even the HR24 is a Dolby issue, but with them it's internal and not external, or more to the point it too has the external [uplink] issues AND the internal issues too. The internal are on a 4-5 min repeat rate and not with live TV, but recorded or buffered programing.


----------



## veryoldschool

anitag0122 said:


> The volume is so low on most channels that, even turning it up as far as it will go, makes it barely audible. DirecTV says they are aware of the problem and "are working on it". They suggest changing cables which I know nothing about. I guess the way I feel is, if I'm paying a monthly charge, I should be able to expect that everything will work the way it should.


Now sure what you mean by "low volume". Both my TV & AVR have "normal levels" at the 30% setting. HDMI to TV and optical & coax to the AVR.


----------



## RAD

Replaced a Sony STR-DA50ES with a Onkyo TX-NR708 today. Replayed the same Eureka program that the Sony took with just a very small audio drop, really nothing to cause a problem, and the Onkyo appearded to have lost audio sync, the DD indicators on the front panel went out and audio dropped for a couple seconds.


----------



## john18

My Onkyo 806 does the same.


----------



## Richierich

hasan said:


> Just confirming the obvious, that this is a DD issue (non-HR24 audio drop outs).
> 
> I have an analog connection from my HR20-700 to an RF set of headphones. I noticed a DD 5.1 audio drop-out on the main speakers (through the 5.1 amp), while wearing the headphones, There was no drop-out on the headphones.


I have the Audio Dropouts only on my HR24-500. When I listen to the same Recording on my HR23-700 via MRV I get No Dropouts so it must be linked to the DD Decoding Process in the HR24-500.


----------



## veryoldschool

richierich said:


> I have the Audio Dropouts only on my *HR24-500*. *When I listen to the same Recording on my HR23-700 via MRV I get No Dropout*s so it must be linked to the DD Decoding Process in the HR24-500.


Correct, this is exactly the problem with the HR24.


----------



## hasan

richierich said:


> I have the Audio Dropouts only on my HR24-500. When I listen to the same Recording on my HR23-700 via MRV I get No Dropouts so it must be linked to the DD Decoding Process in the HR24-500.


Yes, I was just trying not to confuse things, as there are two different problems that are similar, but have different causes. (HR24 firmware based and generic DD 5.1 problems that all the receivers show)


----------



## texasbrit

anitag0122 said:


> The volume is so low on most channels that, even turning it up as far as it will go, makes it barely audible. DirecTV says they are aware of the problem and "are working on it". They suggest changing cables which I know nothing about. I guess the way I feel is, if I'm paying a monthly charge, I should be able to expect that everything will work the way it should.


I think you are talking about a different issue, the low volume many people are complaining about on SD channels. This is because DirecTv is trying to level the volume between channels to solve the problem of differing volumes that many people have complained about. Unfortunately setting the SD channel volume to the same average level as HD volume has resulted for many people in an SD volume which is too low for the poor audio system in their TVs. Not sure what DirecTV will do about that.


----------



## txfeinbergs

RAD said:


> Replaced a Sony STR-DA50ES with a Onkyo TX-NR708 today. Replayed the same Eureka program that the Sony took with just a very small audio drop, really nothing to cause a problem, and the Onkyo appearded to have lost audio sync, the DD indicators on the front panel went out and audio dropped for a couple seconds.


That's the reason I am getting rid of my Onkyo shortly. Not that it is an Onkyo problem, but they aren't helping anything by taking so long to resync and its not like I can expect DirecTV to ever actually fix this. I am praying that Pioneer's new receivers don't take 2 seconds to resync as that is what I will be trying.


----------



## Matt L

Come on, my Onkyo 807 has never taken 2 seconds to resync, that would be very annoying. I get brief blip outs, notice the display blinks too. But it's the same on all 3 of my DD receivers.


----------



## bigbrother52

veryoldschool said:


> The CSRs don't know anything about this. The software folks do though and hopefully are working on a firmware update to resolve this.


Just to be clear VOS, this is I think, and hoped that you would also agree, that this a pretty good question, since this is now a long standing problem.

VOS, do you have even the slghtest idea as to why the CSR's "do not" even have this probem listed on their 'sheet'?

If they were at least informed of the problem, when one of the many subs that call in about an audio problem and get a CSR, just by having them know about it, leaves out the chance that during the course of the call that 'the powers that be' (also know as THEY) will not then try to make it sound like you're the only one with a problem or something has gone bad with your box...etc.
It leaves some of us feeling stupid for reporting it and the rest of us feeling that the people at D* are stupid.
This seems an easy enough fix and would placate alot of folks.
A simple "yes we understand there is a problm" from any CSR, would go a very long way!


----------



## Richierich

Well, I have my HR24 hooked up to my Denon AVR5803 via an Optical Digital Audio Cable and an Analog Cable and I get no Dropouts perse but I do go from Digital to Analog (with a Decrease of the Volume) and then back to Digital (with an Increase in Volume), etc.

So by hooking up the Analog Cable I don't get a Dropout but I just notice the change when it drops the Digital Signal and my Denon then Automatically picks up the Analog Version now that the Digital has dropped out of the equation.


----------



## RAD

Matt L said:


> Come on, my Onkyo 807 has never taken 2 seconds to resync, that would be very annoying. I get brief blip outs, notice the display blinks too. But it's the same on all 3 of my DD receivers.


Well, my old TX-NR901 and now my new TX-NR708 take 1 to 2 seconds to resync when it gets this problem with the audio stream. A Sony STR-DA50Es connected to the same HD DVR playing the same program hardly noticed it at all.


----------



## dpeters11

Matt L said:


> Come on, my Onkyo 807 has never taken 2 seconds to resync, that would be very annoying. I get brief blip outs, notice the display blinks too. But it's the same on all 3 of my DD receivers.


My Onkyo was like this, not all the time, but sometimes. Sometimes there was a click as well. It was an old non-HDMI receiver, maybe they've improved.


----------



## veryoldschool

bigbrother52 said:


> Just to be clear VOS, this is I think, and hoped that you would also agree, that this a pretty good question, since this is now a long standing problem.
> 
> VOS, do you have even the slghtest idea as to why the CSR's "do not" even have this probem listed on their 'sheet'?


It's a good question, but I just don't have a good answer.
I have been able to have them "flag" problems with my locals. A call back later, shows it is a known issue and they're not to send out a service call. This lasted about a month and was "cleared", though my locals still had problems.
There simply is no good reason for the disconnect between Customer Service and the rest of the departments.


----------



## RAD

Has there been a thread to capture exactly what national channels this is occuring on? I ask since there's some channels I've never heard this problem on while others I hear it all the time. Maybe that might help to narrow it down, like is it all the channels on sat X/ transponder Y (so maybe a mux issue) or there is no rhyme or reason to it.


----------



## joemmcg

appreciate the news on low volume. Used to have all TV's set at about 30% volume and would have to lower for locals. Now all SD channels seem about the same but TV's need to be around 50-60% except an older one that needs to be almost at max setting.

Really not interested in investing in new TV's at the present time guess I'll have to live with it unless DTV can fine tune.


----------



## Matt L

The older software the Onkyo had out caused a lot of clicking issues when changing formats but the latest updates eliminated that problem for the most part.


----------



## swans

about this issue. What a joke. No response at all!

I guess if you ignore it, then it isn't REAL.


----------



## bigzeto

I emailed Ellen and here is what I got back:



Response (DIRECTV) - 07/16/2010 06:33 AM
Dear Mr. Zeringue,

Thank you for your recent correspondence. We apologize for not responding to your email in a timely manner; however, we are currently experiencing an unusually high email volume. To expedite your concerns, please contact the Customer Advocate Team, a division of the Office of the President, at 1-800-***-***** between the hours of 7:30 AM and 7:30 PM MT. In addition, please utilize PIN ****; this PIN expires within seven days.

Sincerely,

DIRECTV Customer Advocate Team

Customer (Entered by DIRECTV) - 07/16/2010 06:33 AM
Hi Ellen, I was writing to voice my displeasure regarding the audio on your
HD channels. I have 2 HD-DVR's (HR20 and HR22) and both are connected to
AVR's. When the Dolby Digital option is turned on withing the HD-DVR's, I
get audio dropouts on a good bit of the HD channels. Some are worse than
others. I never get any dropouts on the non HD channels. Also, if I switch
the audio from Dolby Digital to PCM within the menu on the HD-DVR, the
dropouts go away. My question is this: Is Directv aware of this issue
because it has been very annoying to say the least considering the amount of
money I spend on the my audio equipment and the monthly amount I spend to
Directv. I appreciate your time and look forward to hearing back from you.


----------



## BKC

I hope every one of their emails and phone calls are for this issue. :lol:


----------



## swans

It's amazing that certain people on this site ignore this issue!


----------



## joed32

They may not have this issue. I do and you do but not everyone.


----------



## RAD

joed32 said:


> They may not have this issue. I do and you do but not everyone.


Bingo. I have seven HD receivers and the only time I heard the dropout issue was when I used an Onkyo audio receiver for listening vs. the TV's internal speakers. I had a Sony receiver connected to a HR24, no problems, swapped that out with an Onkyo and now had the audio dropouts.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> Bingo. I have seven HD receivers and the only time I heard the dropout issue was when I used an Onkyo audio receiver for listening vs. the TV's internal speakers. I had a Sony receiver connected to a HR24, no problems, swapped that out with an Onkyo and now had the audio dropouts.


I don't have an Onkyo, but do have a Sony and use my TV speakers more than it. 
Do I hear these? yes. 
Are they as bad as some posters have? no, "but" I'm not watching the same channels they are. Not all channels are as bad as others.
Going back to the brriiipps days, "the list" of the worst channels still seems to be the same, and the other channels that do it but not as much, also seems to be similar.


----------



## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> I don't have an Onkyo, but do have a Sony and use my TV speakers more than it.
> Do I hear these? yes.
> Are they as bad as some posters have? no, "but" I'm not watching the same channels they are. Not all channels are as bad as others.
> Going back to the brriiipps days, "the list" of the worst channels still seems to be the same, and the other channels that do it but not as much, also seems to be similar.


Didn't say that if you used your TV speakers you wouldn't hear it, just that when I did I didn't.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> Didn't say that if you used your TV speakers you wouldn't hear it, just that when I did I didn't.


I wasn't trying to disagree with you, but to simply point to how the channels we watch have more to do with how we either "get these" or don't.


----------



## RAD

veryoldschool said:


> I wasn't trying to disagree with you, but to simply point to how the channels we watch have more to do with how we either "get these" or don't.


But in addition it's how you listen to those channels that has an impact on if you hear it or not.


----------



## veryoldschool

RAD said:


> But in addition it's how you listen to those channels that has an impact on if you hear it or not.


I use me ears, :lol: but would guess you mean the hardware we're using to get to our ears, and yes this is the other variable.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> *I use me ears*, :lol: but would guess you mean the hardware we're using to get to our ears, and yes this is the other variable.


Very good point...otherwise...they'd be called nod-offs, not drop-offs...


----------



## BKC

Almost nine months now.......


----------



## leprechaunshawn

Has anybody contacted DirecTV and requested a monthly credit until this is fixed? Perhaps they would be a little more interested in correcting this problem if they were paying us each $5-10 per month because of their problem.


----------



## upgrade lately?

The dropouts on my HR24-500's are almost making it impossible to watch TV, very frustrating...


----------



## flaguy

veryoldschool said:


> Now sure what you mean by "low volume". Both my TV & AVR have "normal levels" at the 30% setting. HDMI to TV and optical & coax to the AVR.


This low volume problem is real. It has been bugging me for weeks. See this link:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=179890&highlight=low+volume


----------



## DennisMileHi

I don't know if anybody posted this before. I have downloaded some movies through VOD. The audio dropouts are still there so the problem is at the D* source, not something caused by the satellite transmission. The dropouts happen on my HR24-500 in my home theater and occur about every 3 minutes or so with a very brief pause in the audio. Quite annoying, nonetheless. I have a Pioneer 1014 Receiver.


----------



## veryoldschool

DennisMileHi said:


> I don't know if anybody posted this before. I have downloaded some movies through VOD. The audio dropouts are still there so the problem is at the D* source, not something caused by the satellite transmission. The dropouts happen on my *HR24-500* in my home theater and occur about every 3 minutes or so with a very brief pause in the audio. Quite annoying, nonetheless. I have a Pioneer 1014 Receiver.


What you have is related to this model DVR and only happens from feeds from the drive or the network [using MRV]. Live doesn't have these, but could have the SAT feed problems, though they don't have the 3-5 min repeat rate that these do. This is a known issue and the software folks are actively looking into a fix. Turning off Dolby should have then stop.


----------



## veryoldschool

I just got the word from the software folks that they've found the problem with the HR24-500. "hopefully" we'll all see the fix "soon", which will only bring them up to the same level as the other receivers.


----------



## djrobx

veryoldschool said:


> I just got the word from the software folks that they've found the problem with the HR24-500. "hopefully" we'll all see the fix "soon", which will only bring them up to the same level as the other receivers.


Great news. :righton:

Thanks for all of your work in testing and reporting details of this issue to DirecTV.


----------



## betterdan

That's good to hear, now maybe they can work on the audio drop problem affecting everyone else.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> That's good to hear, now maybe they can work on the audio drop problem affecting everyone else.


"It would be nice", but alas that is another group.


----------



## hatchet

flaguy said:


> This low volume problem is real. It has been bugging me for weeks. See this link:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=179890&highlight=low+volume


I've noticed the dropouts as well but the low volume thing is really starting to annoy me. It doesn't help that my Sony LCD speakers are crap, tiny rear facing that struggle to put out sound with a good source. Even when I flip on the Onkyo AVR, I still have to crank it to around -10 (-15 to -20 is the norm) just to get it up to acceptable levels.

These are minor irritants but it would be nice to have everything working as it should.


----------



## joed32

hatchet said:


> I've noticed the dropouts as well but the low volume thing is really starting to annoy me. It doesn't help that my Sony LCD speakers are crap, tiny rear facing that struggle to put out sound with a good source. Even when I flip on the Onkyo AVR, I still have to crank it to around -10 (-15 to -20 is the norm) just to get it up to acceptable levels.
> 
> These are minor irritants but it would be nice to have everything working as it should.


Agreed, the audio level is the worst of the two.


----------



## Dmtalon

Just adding to the couple posts here..

Just got off the phone with DTV, complaining about the audio drop outs. Was told more-or-less there wasn't much of anything they or I could do.

I let him know that both my wife and I were pretty upset about it and that if it continues as is that I may have to make a change...

When I suspended my account 8/2009 (building a house and sold the old one) this problem wasn't there for me. Started the receivers back up 5/2010 and they've both been dropping audio. So, at least from my perspective it doesn't make sense that they can't fix it since at one time it didn't do it... But what do I know.


----------



## hasan

Dmtalon said:


> Just adding to the couple posts here..
> 
> Just got off the phone with DTV, complaining about the audio drop outs. Was told more-or-less there wasn't much of anything they or I could do.
> 
> I let him know that both my wife and I were pretty upset about it and that if it continues as is that I may have to make a change...
> 
> When I suspended my account 8/2009 (building a house and sold the old one) this problem wasn't there for me. Started the receivers back up 5/2010 and they've both been dropping audio. So, at least from my perspective it doesn't make sense that they can't fix it since at one time it didn't do it... But what do I know.


The real question is what do "they" know? If you talked to a line level CSR, many don't know much at all, so I wouldn't go by what they might have said. There is every reason to expect they will address the problem as soon as they have a fix for it. No one (that I know of), expects this audio drop out problem (non-HR24) to just be "accepted".


----------



## swans

USA and SciHD. And yes you can miss a whole sentence of what someone says!

What is it going to take to have DirecTV acknowledge that this is a problem and it is a priority for them to fix?


----------



## hasan

swans said:


> USA and SciHD. And yes you can miss a whole sentence of what someone says!
> 
> What is it going to take to have DirecTV acknowledge that this is a problem and it is a priority for them to fix?


I had it happen on USA, but the longest one was perhaps 2 words. I think it happened 3 times in the one hour episode. I was watching a recording on the HR20-700.

D* knows there is a problem and they are working on it. Where it falls in the priority of things is only known by them.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

I find it to be the worst on Discovery and Comedy Central.


----------



## john18

swans said:


> What is it going to take to have DirecTV acknowledge that this is a problem and it is a priority for them to fix?


My understanding is that D*'s broadcast engineers are both aware of the problem and working on solutions. Until Doug Brott had made a post yesterday I had not realized that one of my biggest pet peeves had seemingly been resolved, specifically the issue of having a show on and having volume levels go truly, and uncomfortably, loud when certain commercials aired during the programming. I could be in another room and would have to run to the TV and turn down the volume, often by 7-10 db.

I do understand, and have seen, that I seem to need to raise/lower the volume levels on certain programs when I switch from one show to another. However, once the new show is correctly set for volume the crazy swings of volume no longer seem to occur.

As I said, it is my understanding that they are indeed working to resolve the audio drop out issue. I also suffer from that. But it does appear that they are trying to isolate how and why it happens in order to fix it.


----------



## Die Hard

I have had the same audio dropouts that everyone has been complaining about since last October. I have 3 TVs, 1 of them run the HDMI thru a Denon stereo receiver and then on to the TV. The 2nd TV has the HDMI running straight to the TV with the audio running to a Sony stereo receiver via an optical cable. My 3rd TV has the HDMI running straight to the TV without any stereo receiver involved in this setup and I can still hear the sound drop thru this TVs speakers although it's harder to detect. So, it's not any of my stereo receivers causing this problem because I can still faintly here the sound drop thru the TV speakers on this TV. The audio drop is more detectable when you are running your audio thru a stereo reciever and its surround speakers.

I have been in touch with Directv since last December 2009 about this problem. They have replaced my receivers, replaced my sat. dish, relocated my sat. dish, added the SWM system and ran new cables to try to fix the audio dropouts. None of these have solved the audio dropouts. I do give them credit for trying these fixes but this July 2010, after 7 months of trying to fix the problem, they finally called and said that they were closing out my case because they could not fix my audio dropouts.

I'm sorry, but I just don't accept this. Obviously it's not my stereo receivers, TVs or cables because it happens on all 3 of my TVs and the equipment is different on all 3. I believe that they can fix this problem if more people would complain. The problem is not everybody listens to the audio thru a stereo surround system so most people aren't aware that they are having sound drops also because it is harder to hear when it's going thru your TV speakers versus a stereo surround system, but it is still there!!!

Also, I have a friend who lives near me and has about the same setup as me and he does not have any sound drops. So, not everybody is having this problem but alot of people are, including me, and I sure this is another reason why Directv is not in any hurry to admit or fix this problem.

I am going to continue to call them as often as possible and complain as loudly as I can.


----------



## BKC

Tell them you want money back. They get a little testy about that but you'll get it....


----------



## The Fuzz 53

john18 said:


> My understanding is that D*'s broadcast engineers are both aware of the problem and working on solutions. Until Doug Brott had made a post yesterday I had not realized that one of my biggest pet peeves had seemingly been resolved, specifically the issue of having a show on and having volume levels go truly, and uncomfortably, loud when certain commercials aired during the programming. I could be in another room and would have to run to the TV and turn down the volume, often by 7-10 db.
> 
> I do understand, and have seen, that I seem to need to raise/lower the volume levels on certain programs when I switch from one show to another. However, once the new show is correctly set for volume the crazy swings of volume no longer seem to occur.
> 
> As I said, it is my understanding that they are indeed working to resolve the audio drop out issue. I also suffer from that. But it does appear that they are trying to isolate how and why it happens in order to fix it.


I find this to be the worst on FX. Their shows are always quiet, but the commercials are the same volume as every other channel.


----------



## hasan

Die Hard said:


> I have had the same audio dropouts that everyone has been complaining about since last October. I have 3 TVs, 1 of them run the HDMI thru a Denon stereo receiver and then on to the TV. The 2nd TV has the HDMI running straight to the TV with the audio running to a Sony stereo receiver via an optical cable. My 3rd TV has the HDMI running straight to the TV without any stereo receiver involved in this setup and I can still hear the sound drop thru this TVs speakers although it's harder to detect. So, it's not any of my stereo receivers causing this problem because I can still faintly here the sound drop thru the TV speakers on this TV. The audio drop is more detectable when you are running your audio thru a stereo reciever and its surround speakers.
> 
> I have been in touch with Directv since last December 2009 about this problem. They have replaced my receivers, replaced my sat. dish, relocated my sat. dish, added the SWM system and ran new cables to try to fix the audio dropouts. None of these have solved the audio dropouts. I do give them credit for trying these fixes but this July 2010, after 7 months of trying to fix the problem, they finally called and said that they were closing out my case because they could not fix my audio dropouts.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I just don't accept this. Obviously it's not my stereo receivers, TVs or cables because it happens on all 3 of my TVs and the equipment is different on all 3. I believe that they can fix this problem if more people would complain. The problem is not everybody listens to the audio thru a stereo surround system so most people aren't aware that they are having sound drops also because it is harder to hear when it's going thru your TV speakers versus a stereo surround system, but it is still there!!!
> 
> Also, I have a friend who lives near me and has about the same setup as me and he does not have any sound drops. So, not everybody is having this problem but alot of people are, including me, and I sure this is another reason why Directv is not in any hurry to admit or fix this problem.
> 
> I am going to continue to call them as often as possible and complain as loudly as I can.


If he is using DD 5.1 via a home theater system, he has the dropouts. He may not be noticing, but they are there. It's a known issue that they are working on. Who knows where this issue is in terms of priority or ease of fix. We'll eventually find out. In the mean time, one can either make the most of it (enjoy what you can), or find another provider. Of course, you can continue to call and complain, which is certainly well within your rights.

Just don't make yourself miserable over it...it ain't worth it. We record about six series right now, many on USA network. We see perhaps 3 to 4 per hour on some recordings, and very few on others.

If the issue is really killing your enjoyment, then turn DD 5.1 off until they get it fixed. The problem only happens with DD, not regular stereo. On my system, I can (if I choose), turn DD off, then set my amp for "synthesized" 5 channel. So far, I haven't found it necessary.


----------



## Die Hard

I do have a DD 5.1 surrond system connected to 2 of my TVs and yes I do hear the sound drop on these 2 TVs. My 3rd TV is just connected directly from the directv receiver to the TV, no stereo surround system involved and I still get the sound drop on it, albeit not as discernible since it's coming thru the TV speakers.

I'm watching USA network as I'm writing this and I just got a sound drop that lasted for about 5 seconds and the screen went black for about 2 seconds.
I've never had a sound drop last this long or the screen go black at the same.


----------



## hasan

Die Hard said:


> I do have a DD 5.1 surrond system connected to 2 of my TVs and yes I do hear the sound drop on these 2 TVs. My 3rd TV is just connected directly from the directv receiver to the TV, no stereo surround system involved and I still get the sound drop on it, albeit not as discernible since it's coming thru the TV speakers.
> 
> I'm watching USA network as I'm writing this and I just got a sound drop that lasted for about 5 seconds and the screen went black for about 2 seconds.
> I've never had a sound drop last this long or the screen go black at the same.


Go into your sat box setup for audio and turn Dolby Digital off. That should stop your audio drops. Then go into your home theater unit and set it up for all channel stereo or synthesized dolby or whatever it takes to get it to send audio to all 5 channels. It won't be dolby, but it will fill up the room with sound.


----------



## Die Hard

hasan said:


> Go into your sat box setup for audio and turn Dolby Digital off. That should stop your audio drops. Then go into your home theater unit and set it up for all channel stereo or synthesized dolby or whatever it takes to get it to send audio to all 5 channels. It won't be dolby, but it will fill up the room with sound.


I have turned the Dolby Digital off in the past and it does help some, but this is not a fix for me. I've had Directv for 6 years, listening to Dolby Digital, without any problems until this past fall when I started noticing these audio drop outs. 8 plus months is a long time to be paying for sub-par audio.


----------



## hasan

Die Hard said:


> I have turned the Dolby Digital off in the past and it does help some, but this is not a fix for me. I've had Directv for 6 years, listening to Dolby Digital, without any problems until this past fall when I started noticing these audio drop outs. 8 plus months is a long time to be paying for sub-par audio.


I don't think anyone is disputing that the problem is a long term issue and certainly none of us like it, or the speed with which it is being addressed. I was only giving you alternatives while the wait continues. Currently, if you want all speaker sound, you have to turn off DD and use the DSP capabilities of your home theater amp. If you don't care about DD, then simply turn it off and the drop outs (that we have been discussing in this thread) will disappear. If you want "real" DD 5.1, then you have to put up with audio drops until they fix it. (which is what I'm doing, so I can continue to evaluate the conditions under which it happens, as well as note any progress.)

Of course, another provider might meet your needs better.

Since I've had D* nearly from its inception in 1995, and largely their service has been terrific, I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to test and report so these boxes will get better (and they have...you should have seen the HR20-700 when it first was released!).

In the mean time, I use the boxes to the best of their capabilities. We can choose to be as upset as we like, that's on us (we make ourselves miserable). I've given three alternatives to ameliorate the problem. Pick one that works for you, was my point. (Not positive, not negative, merely practical.)

I'm not here to defend D*. I'm here to help people learn how to use their equipment, diagnose problems, and help them with work-arounds (if there are any), as well as report these issues to the people that can do something about them. I also end up learning a lot along the way.


----------



## BKC

Die Hard said:


> I have turned the Dolby Digital off in the past and it does help some, but this is not a fix for me. I've had Directv for 6 years, listening to Dolby Digital, without any problems until this past fall when I started noticing these audio drop outs. 8 plus months is a long time to be paying for sub-par audio.


Amen. No way we should be expected to give up something because DTV screwed this up.


----------



## BKC

hasan said:


> If you don't care about DD, then simply turn it off and the drop outs (that we have been discussing in this thread) will disappear.


They don't "disappear" on mine. A little better? Yes. Gone? No.


----------



## Barry in Conyers

hasan said:


> Currently, if you want all speaker sound, you have to turn off DD and use the DSP capabilities of your home theater amp. If you don't care about DD, then simply turn it off and the drop outs (that we have been discussing in this thread) will disappear.


hasan,

I can agree with much of your post, but this thread is about audio drop outs in general and NOT just audio drop outs with DD.

I do not use DD, but I still experience occasional drop outs on mpeg4 programming.


----------



## tullahomatom

I am having this issue with the NFL network, 212


----------



## veryoldschool

Barry in Conyers said:


> hasan,
> 
> I can agree with much of your post, but this thread is about audio drop outs in general and NOT just audio drop outs with DD.
> 
> I do not use DD, but I still experience occasional drop outs on mpeg4 programming.


I think they are the same thing [other than the HR24], where DD5.1 simply takes a bigger hit. Turning off DD5.1 isn't a cure all, but should reduce the amount/duration of them, so only the longer "trips" of the MPEG-4 transcoder would be getting through.
It still sucks that we have them.


----------



## Die Hard

hasan said:


> I don't think anyone is disputing that the problem is a long term issue and certainly none of us like it, or the speed with which it is being addressed. I was only giving you alternatives while the wait continues. Currently, if you want all speaker sound, you have to turn off DD and use the DSP capabilities of your home theater amp. If you don't care about DD, then simply turn it off and the drop outs (that we have been discussing in this thread) will disappear. If you want "real" DD 5.1, then you have to put up with audio drops until they fix it. (which is what I'm doing, so I can continue to evaluate the conditions under which it happens, as well as note any progress.)
> 
> Of course, another provider might meet your needs better.
> 
> Since I've had D* nearly from its inception in 1995, and largely their service has been terrific, I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to test and report so these boxes will get better (and they have...you should have seen the HR20-700 when it first was released!).
> 
> In the mean time, I use the boxes to the best of their capabilities. We can choose to be as upset as we like, that's on us (we make ourselves miserable). I've given three alternatives to ameliorate the problem. Pick one that works for you, was my point. (Not positive, not negative, merely practical.)
> 
> I'm not here to defend D*. I'm here to help people learn how to use their equipment, diagnose problems, and help them with work-arounds (if there are any), as well as report these issues to the people that can do something about them. I also end up learning a lot along the way.


Hasan
I understand what your're saying and I appreciate your advice. I too, have had Directv for 12 years and I don't want any other service, that's why I am hanging on hoping they can fix this. I continue to test each scenario I can thing of since I have 3 TVs all with different setups so I can pass the results on to Directv. The only thing I'm sure of is that it's not the avr causing the problem because I also get the sound drop on my 3rd TV that's not even connected to a avr, albeit less noticable only because it's coming thru the TV speakers which do not magnify the sound drop.


----------



## hasan

Barry in Conyers said:


> hasan,
> 
> I can agree with much of your post, but this thread is about audio drop outs in general and NOT just audio drop outs with DD.
> 
> I do not use DD, but I still experience occasional drop outs on mpeg4 programming.


Yes, as VOS has noted, there is a decoder problem, and we have been told they are trying to fix it. That's just where things stand for now.


----------



## hasan

Die Hard said:


> Hasan
> I understand what your're saying and I appreciate your advice. I too, have had Directv for 12 years and I don't want any other service, that's why I am hanging on hoping they can fix this. I continue to test each scenario I can thing of since I have 3 TVs all with different setups so I can pass the results on to Directv. The only thing I'm sure of is that it's not the avr causing the problem because I also get the sound drop on my 3rd TV that's not even connected to a avr, albeit less noticable only because it's coming thru the TV speakers which do not magnify the sound drop.


You are precisely correct, it is *not* an AVR problem. Some do worse than others with it (lose more words), trying to res-ync. If your TV does any DD processing, it will still suffer the larger problem, but to a smaller extent (speakers), otherwise it just experiences the much less prevalent issue of non-DD dropped audio.

What gets lost in these threads is that there are 3 somewhat distinct aspects to the problem.

1. Decoder issues that affect even stereo. (non-DD)
2. Decoder issues that affect DD 5.1 on a much more frequent basis.
3. Issues with the HR24 only, that are not caused by the same as 1 and 2.

Trying to discuss all 3 as if they were one issue leads to a lot of confusion. 1 and 2 are decoder related, 3 appears to be a firmware issue. 3 is going to get fixed a lot faster than 1 and 2 because it is a firmware thing that can be dealt with pretty quickly. (it's also really obnoxious compared to 1 and 2).

The problems with 1 and 2 are not in the sat boxes, but further upstream in the decoders. Lots of hardware there!


----------



## hasan

BKC said:


> Amen. No way we should be expected to give up something because DTV screwed this up.


Who, I might ask, has suggested that you should give something up? You have choices to make while they are trying to fix it.

No one has asked you to give up anything. The product doesn't work right. What you do in the meantime to maximize your enjoyment of what you have. is up to you. I gave some choices that would reduce the impact of the malfunction, while we're waiting. One of those choices, solves it completely for those who can't or won't wait...get another provider.

No one, not even D*, has suggested that you "give up" anything. Several of us have suggested that *in the interim* you make do. Continue to report, but make the best of it. Otherwise, one just stews in one's own dissatisfaction.


----------



## veryoldschool

Maybe it's time to re-state what is happening.
The MPEG-4 transcoder recodes the MPEG-2 feed to MPEG-4 on the fly.
It uses the audio track to keep the video in sync.
Any missing or corrupted bit or bits in the MPEG-2 feed can/will cause the MPEG-4 encoder to lose sync. I've seen times with my locals, where I can monitor both feeds, where two things have happened:


The OTA feed shows the same problem as the MPEG-4 from DirecTV
The OTA feed doesn't show the problem, but the MPEG-4 feed does.
I've been told the MPEG-2 is more tolerant of errors than the transcoder is, which seems to be the case from what I've seen above.
There are also times when I've been able to call and get them to reset their transcoder, so it also seems not all of this is solely a "bad feed" to them.

We also have seen remote feeds [sports] to the programing provider be some of the worst, which seems as if these are from the provider to DirecTV.


----------



## BKC

hasan said:


> One of those choices, solves it completely


Which choice was that? The only way there are no audiodrops on mine is if I don't use sound.









Do you think those of us with this problem should pay the same for tv as those without the problem?


----------



## hasan

BKC said:


> Which choice was that? The only way there are no audiodrops on mine is if I don't use sound.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think those of us with this problem should pay the same for tv as those without the problem?


The choice is to find a provider that meets your needs. I think you should pay for a provider that gives you what you want, and if they don't, dump the provider if they are unresponsive to your needs. That's a choice, just like any other.


----------



## BKC

hasan said:


> The choice is to find a provider that meets your needs. I think you should pay for a provider that gives you what you want, and if they don't, dump the provider if they are unresponsive to your needs. That's a choice, just like any other.


The other choices I have are one OTA channel or Dishnetwork with no network coverage.

You never answered the question, do you feel the people that have the dropout problems should pay the same as people that don't?


----------



## hasan

BKC said:


> The other choices I have are one OTA channel or Dishnetwork with no network coverage.
> 
> You never answered the question, do you feel the people that have the dropout problems should pay the same as people that don't?


It's a false question. Everyone has them, they just may not catch them.

Broadening it a bit, people should pay what they feel is worth their money. It's just that simple. If someone has a problem, they have to decide whether to wait for it to be fixed (and continue to pay), or go elsewhere.

Not many companies are going to discount their services while problems are being worked on. If you can find one, go for it.

In the mean time, you are still back to the basic choice: stay or leave, as getting a discount (in perpetuity) is not an option they are offering.

...and to answer your false question: yes. They should pay until *they* feel the overall product is not worth it. This ain't rocket science.

No one is forcing anyone to put up with (in their mind) a shoddy product.

I don't think it's shoddy. I continue to pay, with a smile on my face. The good vastly outweighs the bad *for me*, and I have over 3 years of experience watching the "bad" be fixed.


----------



## TBlazer07

I really haven't been too bothered by the dropouts but they SEEM to be getting worse, not better.

I just finished watching the Chris Mathews Show on NBC New York. It's a half-hour show and is in standard def and had 13 dropouts in the 30 minutes.

The next show (still in progress) is Meet the Press, same channel but this one is in HD. During the first 20 minutes of MTP there was ZERO dropouts.


----------



## veryoldschool

TBlazer07 said:


> I really haven't been too bothered by the dropouts but they SEEM to be getting worse, not better.
> 
> I just finished watching the Chris Mathews Show on NBC New York. It's a half-hour show and is in standard def and had 13 dropouts in the 30 minutes.
> 
> The next show (still in progress) is Meet the Press, same channel but this one is in HD. During the first 20 minutes of MTP there was ZERO dropouts.


So these were off the same channel correct? 
If so the "SD" was really sent to you in HD and upconverted by the station, which might suggest the station was having the problem.


----------



## BKC

hasan said:


> It's a false question. Everyone has them, they just may not catch them.
> 
> Broadening it a bit, people should pay what they feel is worth their money. It's just that simple. If someone has a problem, they have to decide whether to wait for it to be fixed (and continue to pay), or go elsewhere.
> 
> Not many companies are going to discount their services while problems are being worked on. If you can find one, go for it.
> 
> In the mean time, you are still back to the basic choice: stay or leave, as getting a discount (in perpetuity) is not an option they are offering.
> 
> ...and to answer your false question: yes. They should pay until *they* feel the overall product is not worth it. This ain't rocket science.
> 
> No one is forcing anyone to put up with (in their mind) a shoddy product.
> 
> I don't think it's shoddy. I continue to pay, with a smile on my face. The good vastly outweighs the bad *for me*, and I have over 3 years of experience watching the "bad" be fixed.


So you would be good with buying a car that had a misfire? You know, one that didn't bother the performance just every mile or so missed a little and kept going. After months and months you would be ok with the company telling you they are aware of the problem and are "working on it"? Somehow I doubt you would be the model customer you make yourself out to be.....

Do you really think they don't know what the problem is and how to correct it? Myself I think they are way smarter than you give them credit for, I believe they know exactly what the problem is and now the question is how long before they address it. Right now it's been nine months and counting.

And for the people that bother to read this long post, you don't have to pay full price......


----------



## hasan

Any further discussion is pointless. Maybe someone else with more time on their hands will choose to engage.


----------



## Barry in Conyers

hasan said:


> It's a false question. Everyone has them, they just may not catch them.
> 
> Broadening it a bit, people should pay what they feel is worth their money. It's just that simple. If someone has a problem, they have to decide whether to wait for it to be fixed (and continue to pay), or go elsewhere.
> 
> Not many companies are going to discount their services while problems are being worked on. If you can find one, go for it.
> 
> In the mean time, you are still back to the basic choice: stay or leave, as getting a discount (in perpetuity) is not an option they are offering.
> 
> ...and to answer your false question: yes. They should pay until *they* feel the overall product is not worth it. This ain't rocket science.
> 
> No one is forcing anyone to put up with (in their mind) a shoddy product.
> 
> I don't think it's shoddy. I continue to pay, with a smile on my face. The good vastly outweighs the bad *for me*, and I have over 3 years of experience watching the "bad" be fixed.


The ultimate D*fender advice; like it, lump it or leave. And by the way, how do customers under "commitment" leave?


----------



## veryoldschool

Barry in Conyers said:


> The ultimate D*fender advice; like it, lump it or leave. And by the way, how do customers under "commitment" leave?


I think it was more of the "half full or half empty" than anything else.
I've been "bugged by this", and so feel I have some understanding of those that are pissed. I had a crappy recording off my ABC from last night. I think it was from the station, so *****ing at DirecTV doesn't seem to be something that would resolve anything.
While it may be drastic, anyone under a commitment can leave any time, simply by paying the ETF. They don't have a gun pointed to your head, keeping you.
I think this really comes down to the magnitude of irritant or tolerance we each have.


----------



## TBlazer07

veryoldschool said:


> So these were off the same channel correct?
> If so the "SD" was really sent to you in HD and upconverted by the station, which might suggest the station was having the problem.


Maybe ... but the same thing was said of Brriips which all of a sudden completely disappeared from every channel at the same time. I can't believe that EVERY CHANNEL suddenly fixed *their *"problem" at the exact same time. The same thing will happen with audio drops .... they will suddenly disappear with a software update which would seemingly point to it being a software issue.

I guess audio dropouts are the new brripps.


----------



## Davenlr

TBlazer07 said:


> I guess audio dropouts are the new brripps.


Exactly. And Id wager its the encoders software, not the end users software causing it.


----------



## Barry in Conyers

veryoldschool said:


> I think it was more of the "half full or half empty" than anything else.
> I've been "bugged by this", and so feel I have some understanding of those that are pissed. I had a crappy recording off my ABC from last night. I think it was from the station, so *****ing at DirecTV doesn't seem to be something that would resolve anything.
> While it may be drastic, anyone under a commitment can leave any time, simply by paying the ETF. They don't have a gun pointed to your head, keeping you.
> I think this really comes down to the magnitude of irritant or tolerance we each have.


VOS,

I am not "pissed" at DirecTV because of the audio drop out problem. I am disgusted and disappointed because DirecTV has not corrected the problem.

As you have stated, the audio drop outs are the result of the mpeg2 to mpeg4 trans-coding process.

Who made the decisions about the trans-coding process that DirecTV uses?

How long has the brrrp / drop out problem been going on?

Why should DirecTV customers be told to like it, lump it or pay an ETF to get away from a problem that DirecTV created?​
If I am "pissed" at anything, it is the ongoing D*fense of a problem that (a) should never have been allowed to happen and (b) should have been corrected a long time ago.

The audio drop out problem was created by DirecTV, can only be corrected by DirecTV, should have been corrected a long time ago by DirecTV and paying customers should expect better from DirecTV.

Just my opinion, YMMV.


----------



## veryoldschool

Barry in Conyers said:


> VOS,
> If I am "pissed" at anything, it is the ongoing D*fense of a problem that (a) should never have been allowed to happen and (b) should have been corrected a long time ago.
> 
> The audio drop out problem was created by DirecTV, can only be corrected by DirecTV, should have been corrected a long time ago by DirecTV and paying customers should expect better from DirecTV.
> 
> Just my opinion, YMMV.


I, for one, am not trying to defend DirecTV over this issue. "If I were running the show", I doubt it would have lasted this long, but then there may also have been blood in a few halls at bother DirecTV and Harmonic. Diplomacy hasn't always been my strongest, suit when resolving a problem.
While it does fall on DirecTV to resolve this, I don't think it's completely within their domain either. If the problem is in the MPEG-2 feed, they can't do any better than what they're given. If the problem is in the encoder, they didn't built them and rely on the manufacture to be responsive to them as the customer of them. Having worked for Harmonic, I may have insight to how they work that others may not have, and feel Harmonic is to blame for this more than others feel.
"Perhaps" the end cure is to scrap all Harmonic encoders and move to another manufacturer but this would cost literally tens of millions of dollars.
DirecTV uses MPEG-4 because it uses less bandwidth, so staying with MPEG-2 means a reduction of channels available, which doesn't sound like an option.
I know they've hired at least one of Harmonic's engineers to address the problem. Personally I'm not sure every problem can be fixed with soft/firmware, but then I've always been on the hardware end of things.


----------



## shendley

Got the most severe audio drop I've ever seen on Starz last night. At the end of a recording I made of "The Pillars of the Earth" (on the 23rd, I think), the entire preview of the next episode was silent except for a couple of split second bursts of sounds. My receiver showed it was continually cycling back and forth between 5.1 and stereo. During the show itself, the sound was perfect. Sound came back just fine as soon as the preview segment ended. Odd, indeed.


----------



## hasan

TBlazer07 said:


> Maybe ... but the same thing was said of Brriips which all of a sudden completely disappeared from every channel at the same time. I can't believe that EVERY CHANNEL suddenly fixed *their *"problem" at the exact same time. The same thing will happen with audio drops .... they will suddenly disappear with a software update which would seemingly point to it being a software issue.
> 
> I guess audio dropouts are the new brripps.


I've had the very same thought, or at least it may be related. I don't want to jump to the conclusion that they traded brrrrip for a period of silence, but I can't say that it hadn't occurred to me.


----------



## BKC

And here is the answer to why things aren't fixed........











> but this would cost literally tens of millions of dollars.


----------



## bigzeto

I'm visiting my brother in Albuquerque and we were watching State of Play on HBO last night. Had 4 or 5 dropouts in the first hour. Pathetic.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

This is getting to be ****ing ridiculous. I was watching Deadliest Catch: Behind the Scenes Season 6 and the audio cut out 8 friggin' times. THIS IS BULL****!! I already have FiOs Internet service in my house. Maybe it's time to add television as well and clear some space off my roof.


----------



## BKC

Email Ellen's office and tell them just that!


----------



## twentysided

Not that it's any detailed confirmation, but my brother has FIOS and he got much worse dropouts than I did - every 3 seconds he said - making some shows unwatchable. 2 technicians were unable to resolve his issues. I had him follow the same advice being given here: disable Dolby Digital - and he said it worked very well.

For my part, I get the dropouts regularly, but not very frequently. Few shows get more than 1 or 2. It is annoying (and I have reported it), but not quite enough to switch, knowing it's not just an issue on this service.

Disabling Digital out on my HR-20 mostly resolves the issue. However, if you watch VERY closely, you can see it clip out even on 2.0. I don't think you'd notice it if you didn't know where the dropouts were already and watch closely. At any rate, that's not acceptable to me because the DSP version is just not the same. I will also be very happy when this gets resolved.


----------



## BKC

One post and a knock against FIOS for audio drops? :lol:


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> One post and a knock against FIOS for audio drops? :lol:


Did you miss the following paragraphs acknowledging he has them on Directv? 

You seem to think since you're the OP of the thread that you can talk down to others and regulate the thread. Most of your posts come across as condescending and mocking with your smiley inserts. Be an adult and keep the thread helpful....not a playground for you to mock others.


----------



## veryoldschool

sigma1914 said:


> Did you miss the following paragraphs acknowledging he has them on Directv?
> 
> You seem to think since you're the OP of the thread that you can talk down to others and regulate the thread. Most of your posts come across as condescending and mocking with your smiley inserts. Be an adult and keep the thread helpful....not a playground for you to mock others.


Sometimes the ignore feature of this forum, is the only option left.


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> Did you miss the following paragraphs acknowledging he has them on Directv?
> 
> You seem to think since you're the OP of the thread that you can talk down to others and regulate the thread. Most of your posts come across as condescending and mocking with your smiley inserts. Be an adult and keep the thread helpful....not a playground for you to mock others.


I think nothing of the sort. Have someone change the OP to your name that would be fine with me or remove my name from the heading.

The guy that posted that up there said his brother's dropouts were "Much Worse" with FIOS than his did he not? While others that have made the switch say there are none with FIOS. There is even one poster here that is supposed to know what he's talking about that has said FIOS uses MPEG-2 instead of MPEG-4 and the dropouts don't exist with MPEG-2 I just want this thing fixed just like anyone else that has the problem.

Funny when one of the fanboys say something about a hit and run post that takes a shot at DTV it's ok?

I don't tell you what to post, I suggest you do the same with me. While we are on the subject, how was your post helpful to the subject and when did you become head man in charge? If you want to talk condescending, read your post to me. <No smiley here>

I really don't care what you think of me, until today I hadn't formed any kind of opinion of you.

I realize this thread isn't a popular thread as it's been almost closed before. I know it doesn't shed a very flattering light on DTV to have a problem go on so long and they won't fix it but that's the facts.

Again, feel free to have your name put on the subject line, having a long thread with my name there means absolutely nothing to me. I would rather have the quality sound they advertise. <Again, no smiley here>

Stuart and I had a little talk about this before and he and I know exactly where each other stand on this. I'm sure he would tell you I'm not here to impress anyone. I am not here to make enemies either  <---------- Smiley


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> ...I just want this thing fixed just like anyone else that has the problem.


Me too...we all do.



> Funny when one of the fanboys say something about a hit and run post that takes a shot at DTV it's ok?


Name calling? Real mature.



> I don't tell you what to post, I suggest you do the same with me. While we are on the subject, how was your post helpful to the subject and when did you become head man in charge? If you want to talk condescending, read your post to me. <No smiley here>


I didn't come close to your level of sarcasm or condescending remarks...like your new way "<No smiley here>".



> I really don't care what you think of me, until today I hadn't formed any kind of opinion of you.


If you form an opinion of someone based on forum posts trying to help you realize your demeaning nature here, then ok. I have no opinion of you whatsoever off of here. I don't judge people off there repetitive posts on an audio issue, maybe you do?



> I realize this thread isn't a popular thread as it's been almost closed before. I know it doesn't shed a very flattering light on DTV to have a problem go on so long and they won't fix it but that's the facts.


Not popular?? 1,260+ posts & 56,000 views is quite popular. IMO, we need this thread and people like VOS who help educate others on it.



> Again, feel free to have your name put on the subject line, having a long thread with my name there means absolutely nothing to me. I would rather have the quality sound they advertise. <Again, no smiley here>


And I'd rather have a week or even 2 days go by where some people here don't post snarky remarks and talk down on people with smart a$$ smileys. Maybe one of us might get what we want?



> Stuart and I had a little talk about this before and he and I know exactly where each other stand on this. I'm sure he would tell you I'm not here to impress anyone. I am not here to make enemies either  <---------- Smiley


I know we all want the same thing...no drop outs. But, we (all posters who've been here awhile like you & I) need to go about it with a level head & help new people understand the issue.


----------



## txfeinbergs

You both get demerits! Now each of you go to a corner of the room for a timeout.


----------



## BKC

txfeinbergs said:


> You both get demerits! Now each of you go to a corner of the room for a timeout.


 When can I come out?


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> and people like VOS who help educate others on it.


And now we get to the root of it.......


----------



## Carl Spock

Today on the Cartoon Network HD, I watched _Looney Toons: Back In Action_, a pretty bad movie but infinitely better than that Michael Jordon/Looney Toons POS, and there were multiple drop-outs each minute. They were in both the program and the commercials, but more severe during the movie. Switching to PCM made no difference. It was by far and away the worst I've ever heard drop-outs on DirecTV.

I was using HDMI hookups throughout.


----------



## sigma1914

BKC said:


> And now we get to the root of it.......


There you go, again. I guarantee VOS has done way more than you & I for this issue.


----------



## betterdan

In my opinion nobody has done enough as we are all still experiencing the issue.


----------



## BKC

betterdan said:


> In my opinion nobody has done enough as we are all still experiencing the issue.


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## BKC

sigma1914 said:


> There you go, again. I guarantee VOS has done way more than you & I for this issue.


I'm going to say one last thing and I'm done with you. There is a poster here that is supposed to be on top of this stuff but that poster burned the bridge with me when the told me that I have to be mistaken there were no audio dropouts on the channels I watch.

This same poster has time and time again came up with many different reason as to what is wrong and told me that it didn't start with last fall's software update when in fact that's exactly when it started with mine and many others on here.

I'm never going to fit in here because I don't spend endless hours in front of the tv and I only have one receiver not hooked to the internet, I could care less about MRV or doubleplay or any other trinkets. I don't buy PPV or any events. The only way I'll ever have 4K or more posts here is if this problem isn't fixed or if they screw up something else that causes problems. I'm not in the clique here and don't want to be. All I want is the service I pay for, nothing more and nothing less.

And yes, I like to screw around a bit and have fun. You might say I'm normal. :lol: If you can't handle what I post then maybe you should go with VoS and use the ignore feature. Or maybe you can have me removed from the forum if you try hard enough.


----------



## swans

BKC said:


> I couldn't agree more.


of the DD5.1 audio. Hence the people experiencing the problem are running digital out from their HD-DVR to an AVR.

The real issues revolve around the fact that the 'FAN BOYS' avoid this thread like the plague, and DirecTV pretends that there isn't an inherent problem with the delivery of a premium product to their most discerning customers!:nono:


----------



## joed32

swans said:


> of the DD5.1 audio. Hence the people experiencing the problem are running digital out from their HD-DVR to an AVR.
> 
> The real issues revolve around the fact that the 'FAN BOYS' avoid this thread like the plague, and DirecTV pretends that there isn't an inherent problem with the delivery of a premium product to their most discerning customers!:nono:


I really don't see anyone trying to hide this problem. I certainly have it on the sports talk shows that I watch and I do watch them now with DD turned off. So I don't see them anymore. I record a lot of movies to DVDs and never get any audio dropouts on those. Is anyone saying that there is no dropout problem? I'm not seeing anyone denying the existence of the issue.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

Carl Spock said:


> Today on the Cartoon Network HD, I watched _Looney Toons: Back In Action_, a pretty bad movie but infinitely better than that Michael Jordon/Looney Toons POS, and there were multiple drop-outs each minute. They were in both the program and the commercials, but more severe during the movie. Switching to PCM made no difference. It was by far and away the worst I've ever heard drop-outs on DirecTV.
> 
> I was using HDMI hookups throughout.


There's one difference between our experiences. I have NEVER ONCE EVER heard a drop out on a commercial.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

BKC said:


> Email Ellen's office and tell them just that!


Who's this Ellen and how do I get a hold of her?

As for just turning off DD, I've tried and can't do it. Turning off the DD makes it sound like complete dog-****. The bottom-line is that Directv is not holding up to their end of the bargain for the service that I am paying them dearly for.

But then again, what company in this country does? Every single company we deal with is out looking to screw us every which way they can because they have zero respect for the people that keep them in business. They view all of us nothing more than $ signs.


----------



## fornold

Carl Spock said:


> Today on the Cartoon Network HD, I watched _Looney Toons: Back In Action_, a pretty bad movie but infinitely better than that Michael Jordon/Looney Toons POS, and there were multiple drop-outs each minute. They were in both the program and the commercials, but more severe during the movie. Switching to PCM made no difference. It was by far and away the worst I've ever heard drop-outs on DirecTV.
> 
> I was using HDMI hookups throughout.


Cartoon Network HD was horrible all night long.

BTW, my son loves that movie.


----------



## Taltizer

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIFnorail.jsp?assetId=P4960016#h:573.612

Email them here and they will call you and try to get the problem resolved with the dropouts.


----------



## nccasinc

Tried this route about 2 months ago. They call and talk to you about the issue to obtain more information. Then for me they scheduled a service call to check signal which was fine. They called back about a week later to tell me the issue is probably with my AVR (even though the drop outs are in two rooms each connected to different brands of AVR's). The last thing was that the engineers are doing research. Anyway to make the wife happy I've subscribed to Cable (I hate their DVR's) and suspended my account with D. Only been about a week and I'm learning to cope but NO drop outs. Their DVR's are hooked to the same HDMI cables and all is well with the audio.


----------



## hasan

fornold said:


> Cartoon Network HD was horrible all night long.
> 
> BTW, my son loves that movie.


Just so we don't go down a blind alley...there were several channels this morning showing severe pixellation and audio break-up. (MSNBC-HD among them). This is not the problem we have been discussing in this thread. They started for me about an hour ago, and stopped about 10 minutes ago. (on MSNBC-HD). There was no corresponding problem on CNN-HD. Discussion is in another thread.

Just didn't want this thread to get polluted with an unrelated problem.


----------



## corey99699

I just signed a 2 yr. agreement with Direct,had I known about this issue I might have waited.The date of the first post of this thread has me kinda worried since they've known about this issue for so long and no resolution.I was very happy coming from dish until I noticed these drops in audio.I have an Onkyo AV receiver that makes a loud clicking noise every time it happens so that makes it even worse.I have only seen this on DD programming so I disabled it and haven't noticed it since,but I hate not being able to use it.Sorry if it's been mentioned,but has Direct given an estimate as to when this should be fixed?


----------



## Carl Spock

What receiver do you have, *corey*? If it is a HR24, I believe they are working on this. It's part of getting the bugs out of a new model.

It sounds like what you are experiencing is a HDMI handshake issue. That's something diffferent than my problem last night with the Cartoon Network, and is also different than many of the other problems in this thread. Fortunately, HDMI handshake problems are often more identifiable, too. They come about because HDMI sucks. There have been many threads here recently about that (search using _HDMI sucks_).

For now, you might want to try going optical or coaxial digitial out from your DVR to your Onkyo. You'll have to go into your Onkyo's menu to tell it to get the audio from that connection rather than the HDMI cable, but it might well solve your problem. You could turn back on Dolby Digital.


----------



## Carl Spock

The Fuzz 53 said:


> Carl Spock said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today on the Cartoon Network HD, I watched Looney Toons: Back In Action, a pretty bad movie but infinitely better than that Michael Jordon/Looney Toons POS, and there were multiple drop-outs each minute. They were in both the program and the commercials, but more severe during the movie. Switching to PCM made no difference. It was by far and away the worst I've ever heard drop-outs on DirecTV.
> 
> I was using HDMI hookups throughout.
> 
> 
> 
> There's one difference between our experiences. I have NEVER ONCE EVER heard a drop out on a commercial.
Click to expand...

When I was watching* I HAD THEM* in every commercial break during the movie, and my bold trumps your caps, so there! 

Really, in a thread about dropouts, do you need to shout your point?


----------



## corey99699

I have an HR22,I too thought it was an HDMI handshake issue so I tried the optical without HDMI and still have the issue.


BTW,This happens at certain spots in movies or shows and when I rewind it happens at exact same spot,UNLESS DD is disabled.


----------



## hasan

Carl Spock said:


> What receiver do you have, *corey*? If it is a HR24, I believe they are working on this. It's part of getting the bugs out of a new model.
> 
> It sounds like what you are experiencing is a HDMI handshake issue. That's something diffferent than my problem last night with the Cartoon Network, and is also different than many of the other problems in this thread. Fortunately, HDMI handshake problems are often more identifiable, too. They come about because HDMI sucks. There have been many threads here recently about that (search using _HDMI sucks_).
> 
> For now, you might want to try going optical or coaxial digitial out from your DVR to your Onkyo. You'll have to go into your Onkyo's menu to tell it to get the audio from that connection rather than the HDMI cable, but it might well solve your problem. You could turn back on Dolby Digital.


No, it doesn't sound like an HDMI handshake issue. Some of the Onkyos have a problem re-syncing quickly after a loss of DD. The older units also had a loud click when recovering. I had one. Until the true drop out is solved (as evidenced by his success turning DD off), he is going to have to run non-DD, and use the DSP capabilities of the Onkyo to get by.

BTW, this is NOT a criticism of Onkyo...I love them. I have an SR605 and it doesn't do the loud click, but my previous Integra did.

DirecTV never announces a time line for a fix. This one is particularly difficult, because it involves the encode/decode process long before it comes to our sat boxes. (if we are talking about the non-HR24 drop outs).

So, if the OP has an HR24, he may get that particular problem fixed real soon now. If not, it's going to be a while.


----------



## corey99699

My Onkyo is an NR-1007,love it but the clicking noises are very annoying ,It doesn't bother me as much between commercials but I can't take it anymore in the middle of movies.


----------



## fornold

hasan said:


> Just so we don't go down a blind alley...there were several channels this morning showing severe pixellation and audio break-up. (MSNBC-HD among them). This is not the problem we have been discussing in this thread. They started for me about an hour ago, and stopped about 10 minutes ago. (on MSNBC-HD). There was no corresponding problem on CNN-HD. Discussion is in another thread.
> 
> Just didn't want this thread to get polluted with an unrelated problem.


I was talking about audio drop-outs just like Carl Spock pointed out. Every minute or two the audio would drop out and then come right back. The video was fine. Even my wife noticed it and she is usually oblivious to these sort of things.

This was with the Looney Tunes movie, both episodes of Unnatural History, King of the Hill and Family Guy.


----------



## Carl Spock

corey, hasan is one of the most even tempered, knowledgeable guys around here. Plus he's from Iowa.  Listen to him.

You might want to either upgrade your Onkyo, or get DirecTV to get you a HR24 to see if that solves your problem. Convincing them of that, especially when HR24s are in such short supply right now, might take you a bit of work but would be the cheapest solution.

Actually, I took the first option. Back in 2007, when I realized I had drop out/compatibility issues between my HR20-700 and the Denon receiver I owned at that point, I got rid of the Denon in favor of the Yamaha, which lessened the problem dramatically.

HD drop outs have historically been a bugaboo for DirecTV. In times of stability, they go away. A year ago, I had no drop out problem. Now, with a new satellite and Whole House DVR coming on board, they are back with a vengence. If you can hang in there, experience has shown they will go away with time. If you are impatient like me, you'll change out a piece of hardware first.


----------



## veryoldschool

Carl Spock said:


> corey, hasan is one of the most even tempered, knowledgeable guys around here. Plus he's from Iowa.  Listen to him.
> 
> You might want to either upgrade your Onkyo, or get DirecTV to get you a HR24 to see if that solves your problem. Convincing them of that, especially when HR24s are in such short supply right now, might take you a bit of work but would be the cheapest solution.
> 
> Actually, I took the first option. Back in 2007, when I realized I had drop out/compatibility issues between my HR20-700 and the Denon receiver I owned at that point, I got rid of the Denon in favor of the Yamaha, which lessened the problem dramatically.
> 
> HD drop outs have historically been a bugaboo for DirecTV. In times of stability, they go away. A year ago, I had no drop out problem. Now, with a new satellite and Whole House DVR coming on board, they are back with a vengence. If you can hang in there, experience has shown they will go away with time. If you are impatient like me, you'll change out a piece of hardware first.


Not sure I can completely "sign off" on all of this.
The HR24 does have a flaw/bug in its software and "I know" the next NR will resolve this as I'm running a test version with the "fix in it".
This flaw as "above and beyond" the major topic of this thread. There doesn't seen to be an MPEG-4 receiver that isn't affected by this.
"The variables" seem to be more related to the stations we watch and when we watch them, along with our model AVR, though I "hear" them straight to my Sony TV.
As for the thought that new SATs have some effect on this, it would only seem like the encoders may be moved around a bit in the uplinks, where perhaps some work slightly better than others.
I haven't seen any correlation between any feature being added to the receivers and any change in the dropouts.


----------



## hasan

corey99699 said:


> My Onkyo is an NR-1007,love it but the clicking noises are very annoying ,It doesn't bother me as much between commercials but I can't take it anymore in the middle of movies.


Since turning of DD solved the majority of the drop out issues for you, I would advise leaving it off, and taking advantage of some of the *excellent* DSP capabilities of your Onkyo. All Channel Stereo does pretty well, and if you have PLII-Movie or PLII-Music, I find them to do a very fine job on non-DD sources (which yours will become, if you turn it off in the sat box). I don't see any reason at all to upgrade your Onkyo. That won't solve your problem, as it isn't "your" problem. As VOS has noted, it is a D* problem (outside of our sat boxes, except for the HR24 series, which suffers from both an external and an internal problem).

If you take the time to read some of VOS's posts (Very Old School), on the topic, you will see why this is such a trying problem. Patience is going to be required, and in the mean time, we can use our Onkyo's to their best, or live with the irritation (major or minor, depending on one's outlook), while leaving DD 5.1 on. I have found, so far, that I can live with it, but on any given day, and at any moment, I could change my mind and turn DD off.

In the mean time, I don't find it functional (for me) to get worked up about a known very difficult problem that is being tackled by D*. I got this stuff to enjoy it. If I need to employ work-arounds while it is being worked on (and I continue to test for it in the CE group), then that's fine by me. In this way, I actually *enjoy* my investment, instead of being perpetually dissatisfied. But hey, that's just me, YMMV.

...and to Mr. Spock: your kind words are much appreciated, if not fully deserved.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global...0016#h:573.612
Email them here and they will call you and try to get the problem resolved with the dropouts.[/QUOTE said:


> Just fired off an e-mail to them. Below is a copy of what I wrote. It's a shame there was a character limit because I had plenty more to say.
> 
> For the past few months I have had a very, very poor experience with the audio quality of my Directv service. It seems that every program I watch has the audio continuously drop out. It may only happen 1 time during a show, or it has happened over 10 times during a program. Every time it happens, I can't hear what is being said for about 4-10 seconds, which gets to be very irritating.
> 
> I have a Directv HR22-100 HD-DVR connected to my Onkyo TX-SR705 AV receiver via HDMI, which is connected to my Samsung HL-S5087W DLP TV. I have tried using different HDMI cables and connecting the Directv receiver with an optical TOSLINK cable, but the audio drops still persist. I have never heard an audio drop from any other component connected to my AVR. This leads me to believe that the problem is related to my Directv equipment and/or service.
> 
> This issue appears to be widespread however. I have read of others having this problem on the Directv tech support forums, and a 52 page, 1,300 post thread on DBSTalk.com that was started in November 2009 (here's the link: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167900&page=52).
> 
> I personally have only been a Directv customer for 2 years since I purchased my first home in August 2008, but have been using Directv service for the majority of my life. My parents have been Directv subscribers since 1995 (when I was 12 y/o), when we had to drive to Radio Shack and purchase our own RCA 18" dish and receiver and install it ourselves up on the roof of our house, as we were fed up with the poor quality of our cable service. They too have experienced the same issue (on an Onkyo TX-SR707 AVR).
> 
> I currently have Verizon Fios internet service in my home, and as much as it pains me to say it, I may need to get my television service from them as well if Directv cannot resolve this issue. Between the constant Verizon mailings and Cablevision salesmen trying to get me to switch, it is getting hard to keep telling them "no" with this going on.


----------



## hatchet

hasan said:


> Some of the Onkyos have a problem re-syncing quickly after a loss of DD. The older units also had a loud click when recovering. I had one.
> 
> BTW, this is NOT a criticism of Onkyo...I love them. I have an SR605 and it doesn't do the loud click, but my previous Integra did.


I have an older 803, clicks and all. And we all remember the DTS "bomb" :eek2:!


----------



## hasan

The Fuzz 53 said:


> Just fired off an e-mail to them. Below is a copy of what I wrote. It's a shame there was a character limit because I had plenty more to say.
> 
> <much snipped>
> 
> I currently have Verizon Fios internet service in my home, and as much as it pains me to say it, I may need to get my television service from them as well if Directv cannot resolve this issue. Between the constant Verizon mailings and Cablevision salesmen trying to get me to switch, it is getting hard to keep telling them "no" with this going on.


I think you did very well, without belaboring the point any further. If they can't "get it" from what you emailed, then no further information is going to help them.


----------



## txfeinbergs

I have a Pioneer VSX-32 on order that should arrive in the next week or two. Once I get it I will let you guys know if the new Pioneers are better at resyncing than my Onkyo TX-SR805. Not a solution to the root cause of the issue obviously, but if it masks the problem than I guess I don't necessary care.


----------



## Matt L

corey99699 said:


> My Onkyo is an NR-1007,love it but the clicking noises are very annoying ,It doesn't bother me as much between commercials but I can't take it anymore in the middle of movies.


Have you updated the 1007 firmware? I have the 807 and have the latest firmware and ZERO clicks. I do have the annoying dropouts on all my systems but never any clicking on the onkyo...


----------



## corey99699

hasan said:


> Since turning of DD solved the majority of the drop out issues for you, I would advise leaving it off, and taking advantage of some of the *excellent* DSP capabilities of your Onkyo. All Channel Stereo does pretty well, and if you have PLII-Movie or PLII-Music, I find them to do a very fine job on non-DD sources (which yours will become, if you turn it off in the sat box). I don't see any reason at all to upgrade your Onkyo. That won't solve your problem, as it isn't "your" problem. As VOS has noted, it is a D* problem (outside of our sat boxes, except for the HR24 series, which suffers from both an external and an internal problem).
> 
> If you take the time to read some of VOS's posts (Very Old School), on the topic, you will see why this is such a trying problem. Patience is going to be required, and in the mean time, we can use our Onkyo's to their best, or live with the irritation (major or minor, depending on one's outlook), while leaving DD 5.1 on. I have found, so far, that I can live with it, but on any given day, and at any moment, I could change my mind and turn DD off.
> 
> In the mean time, I don't find it functional (for me) to get worked up about a known very difficult problem that is being tackled by D*. I got this stuff to enjoy it. If I need to employ work-arounds while it is being worked on (and I continue to test for it in the CE group), then that's fine by me. In this way, I actually *enjoy* my investment, instead of being perpetually dissatisfied. But hey, that's just me, YMMV.
> 
> ...and to Mr. Spock: your kind words are much appreciated, if not fully deserved.


Yes I can live with it for now(disabling DD),but I have noticed quite a difference between DD enabled and disabled,sounds much better enabled but the clicks are so distracting it's not worth it so I'm leaving it off until it's fixed.I definitely won't
be upgrading the 1007 as I bought it brand new just two weeks ago,but it still sounds very good and overall I'm happy.Hopefully Direct will get this fixed soon.Thanks to everyone for the replies.


----------



## corey99699

Matt L said:


> Have you updated the 1007 firmware? I have the 807 and have the latest firmware and ZERO clicks. I do have the annoying dropouts on all my systems but never any clicking on the onkyo...


Yes I updated the firmware and it seemed to help but they're still there,I don't think this is a defect because I've heard other 1007 owners claim they get them too on the AVS forum.


----------



## BKC

The Fuzz 53 said:


> Who's this Ellen and how do I get a hold of her?
> 
> As for just turning off DD, I've tried and can't do it. Turning off the DD makes it sound like complete dog-****. The bottom-line is that Directv is not holding up to their end of the bargain for the service that I am paying them dearly for.
> 
> But then again, what company in this country does? Every single company we deal with is out looking to screw us every which way they can because they have zero respect for the people that keep them in business. They view all of us nothing more than $ signs.


[email protected]

They are a team that's supposed to get results when you get stalled going the normal route.

Make sure you tell them you are well aware they have a problem maybe mention this thread, it could cut down on a few back and forth emails. Even at this office they like to pull the old "We haven't had any reports of this" They will probably call you and ask you to gather a bunch of info for them and tell you how much you've helped so you feel better but don't be afraid to ask if you feel like they owe you anything.

Normally they get back to you in around 24 hours or maybe a little longer. Pretty fast though.


----------



## Carl Spock

The Fuzz 53 said:


> Just fired off an e-mail to them.


Nice note.  I'll be interested to hear what they say back.


----------



## Dark Horse

fornold said:


> I was talking about audio drop-outs just like Carl Spock pointed out. Every minute or two the audio would drop out and then come right back. The video was fine. Even my wife noticed it and she is usually oblivious to these sort of things.
> 
> This was with the Looney Tunes movie, both episodes of Unnatural History, King of the Hill and Family Guy.


I recorded Family Guy with my DVR (HR22-100) last night and couldn't watch more than three minutes of it, because I was getting 1-second dropouts at least every 15 seconds. At one point, the dropouts were so bad that every fifth word of dialogue was missing.

I upgraded to HD in January, and by February I couldn't stand the audio drops any longer. My 5-year-old Onkyo HTiB was doing the popping/clicking/pausing thing every time there was a drop. When I complained about this issue to D*, the CSR told me to switch from using a digital optical cable to RCA cables running to the AVR. I hadn't turned off DD, and hadn't had an audio drop for a few months until last night.

So, just to clarify some things, would I get better audio quality (and hopefully no drops) if I: 

switched back to the digital optical without DD
stayed with the current setup of using the DD with RCAs
turn off the DD with the RCAs and let my AVR matrix the sound


----------



## corey99699

Dark Horse said:


> I recorded Family Guy with my DVR (HR22-100) last night and couldn't watch more than three minutes of it, because I was getting 1-second dropouts at least every 15 seconds. At one point, the dropouts were so bad that every fifth word of dialogue was missing.
> 
> I upgraded to HD in January, and by February I couldn't stand the audio drops any longer. My 5-year-old Onkyo HTiB was doing the popping/clicking/pausing thing every time there was a drop. When I complained about this issue to D*, the CSR told me to switch from using a digital optical cable to RCA cables running to the AVR. I hadn't turned off DD, and hadn't had an audio drop for a few months until last night.
> 
> So, just to clarify some things, would I get better audio quality (and hopefully no drops) if I:
> 
> switched back to the digital optical without DD
> stayed with the current setup of using the DD with RCAs
> turn off the DD with the RCAs and let my AVR matrix the sound


Try using optical and enabling DD,not sure if it will work for you but it did for me.


----------



## Dark Horse

Thanks, corey99699. I'll give that a try.


----------



## corey99699

I'm sorry,I meant disabling DD.


----------



## Dark Horse

Ha! I must have been at work too long today, because that's what I thought you'd originally written.


----------



## betterdan

joed32 said:


> . Is anyone saying that there is no dropout problem? I'm not seeing anyone denying the existence of the issue.


Yes, Directv. They told me so when I received a call from them after I sent an email to Ellen. Cody from Directv told me there wasn't a problem because he and his family and friends didn't have dropouts. :nono2:
Cory ended up sending me another HR20-700 which of course didn't fix the problem. I shot off another email to Ellen and then another guy from Directv called me back. He then admitted they knew of the problem and took some info down from me then I told him it seemed like it started happening around the time they enabled Double Play on the receivers. The guy had no clue what Double Play was. Didn't make me feel too good that I had to tell a Directv employee about his product because he had no clue. :nono:


----------



## hasan

betterdan said:


> Yes, Directv. They told me so when I received a call from them after I sent an email to Ellen. Cody from Directv told me there wasn't a problem because he and his family and friends didn't have dropouts. :nono2:
> Cory ended up sending me another HR20-700 which of course didn't fix the problem. I shot off another email to Ellen and then another guy from Directv called me back. He then admitted they knew of the problem and took some info down from me then I told him it seemed like it started happening around the time they enabled Double Play on the receivers. The guy had no clue what Double Play was. Didn't make me feel too good that I had to tell a Directv employee about his product because he had no clue. :nono:


They key is the engineering team. They know there is a problem. It's their responsibility to fix it. We've been told they are working on it, by reliable sources. We can complain, and should. The rest is just noise, composed of ill-informed csrs, or other "out of the technical loop" employees, and a tad of incompetence and bevy of intra-company communication flaws.

We need to keep reporting, keep their feet to the fire, and not waste our time lamenting those who do or don't know what they are doing, if we are really interested in getting this fixed instead of playing "gotcha" with the myriad parts of D*'s service bureaucracy.


----------



## BKC

I had dropouts on Speed channel that would last for at least 30 seconds last night. I've never seen it this bad. If they're doing anything at all they are headed the wrong direction.


----------



## veryoldschool

hasan said:


> We need to keep reporting, keep their feet to the fire, and not waste our time lamenting those who do or don't know what they are doing, if we are really interested in getting this fixed instead of playing "gotcha" with the myriad parts of D*'s service bureaucracy.


As I think Rad mentioned earlier, the more information we can give DirecTV about the problem the more it should help them.
Logging the channel, time, show that is having the problem, would be more helpful to them than "just *****ing" about it.
The network broadcast center tends to look like mission control with a wall of monitors. If the video goes down they can spot it in a min, but nobody can listen to all the channels at one time.
Any channel can be switched to a workstation and be monitored much closer.
The more input about which channels are doing this, the more eyes "and ears" can be put on the problem.
I simply can't imagine they have enough people to monitor 
[listen to] every channel, 24 hours a day, so we could help them by narrowing down the channels that need this level of attention.


----------



## hasan

+++1


----------



## swans

veryoldschool said:


> As I think Rad mentioned earlier, the more information we can give DirecTV about the problem the more it should help them.
> Logging the channel, time, show that is having the problem, would be more helpful to them than "just *****ing" about it.
> The network broadcast center tends to look like mission control with a wall of monitors. If the video goes down they can spot it in a min, but nobody can listen to all the channels at one time.
> Any channel can be switched to a workstation and be monitored much closer.
> The more input about which channels are doing this, the more eyes "and ears" can be put on the problem.
> I simply can't imagine they have enough people to monitor
> [listen to] every channel, 24 hours a day, so we could help them by narrowing down the channels that need this level of attention.


The SD ones.


----------



## JeffBowser

My hat is off to those old timers who continue to participate in this thread. Your patience in repeating and explaining is legendary.


----------



## veryoldschool

swans said:


> The SD ones.


Your post is about a helpful to DirecTV as it is to this thread.
While I will see/hear these dropouts, on the channels/shows I watch, they are fairly few and far between, and believe it or not, some don't have them at all.
For those that are serious and would like to see the problem address faster, report the problem with some detail.
Telling them "all HD" isn't going to get them any closer to finding "your problem".


----------



## RAD

Got a new AVR this week Denon AVR-891 and so far it looks like it does a worst job riding through the audio glitches then the Sony STR-DA50ES it replaced. Watching a recording from Science Channel and heard three drops of maybe .5 seconds with DD on, replayed them with DD off and could hear a very short 'blurp' don't know how to discribe it but it wasn't clear audio.


----------



## BKC

I get dropouts on every HD channel I've tuned into. Hope that helps.


----------



## bigzeto

I don't get the dropouts on every channel but some of the channels I do get them on are Food Network, ESPN, Speed, some of the Starz. I reported this to Ellen when I got a call back.


----------



## RAD

Off the top of my head I've had dropouts on SciFy, Showtime West, Science Channel.


----------



## gitarzan

I get frequent dropouts of 2-4 seconds every few minutes on CNN. CNN in the background is pretty much all I have had a chance to watch lately.


----------



## djrobx

> If the video goes down they can spot it in a min, but nobody can listen to all the channels at one time.


True, but as you know quite well, your AVR knows when the audio stream is broken. I can mute my AVR and still see each and every drop-out.

It should be fairly trivial for them to write software that monitors the continuity of the audio stream, much like your AVR is doing, and log problems.


----------



## betterdan

hasan said:


> They key is the engineering team. They know there is a problem. It's their responsibility to fix it. We've been told they are working on it, by reliable sources. We can complain, and should. The rest is just noise, composed of ill-informed csrs, or other "out of the technical loop" employees, and a tad of incompetence and bevy of intra-company communication flaws.
> 
> We need to keep reporting, keep their feet to the fire, and not waste our time lamenting those who do or don't know what they are doing, if we are really interested in getting this fixed instead of playing "gotcha" with the myriad parts of D*'s service bureaucracy.


The key is this has been going on for way too long and we keep hearing they are working on a fix but nothing ever comes from it. If it is a known problem then I shouldn't be having someone call me from Directv after I sent Ellen an email about the situation then lied to and told it is not a national problem. The engineers may know it's a problem and our info could help them but unfortunately we get Directv employees telling us it is not a known problem and so the info is lost that could of potentially helped.
They need to be straightforward about this and get a fix implemented and not try to cover it up.


----------



## dsm

My onkyo TCDD797 does this on espn CNN , tnt, and a few others. No clicks just the dropouts. I swear there was a release last fall where I wasn't getting them, but I do now. I've been thinking of getting anew receiver but maybe I shouldn't bother.


----------



## betterdan

veryoldschool said:


> As I think Rad mentioned earlier, the more information we can give DirecTV about the problem the more it should help them.
> Logging the channel, time, show that is having the problem, would be more helpful to them than "just *****ing" about it.


What would be even more helpful is if they didn't try to have employees lie to customers and tell them it isn't a problem when they try to report it. Also it might be helpful if they had people taking down the info that had even a little bit of a clue about the equipment.


----------



## veryoldschool

djrobx said:


> True, but as you know quite well, your AVR knows when the audio stream is broken. I can mute my AVR and still see each and every drop-out.
> 
> It should be fairly trivial for them to write software that monitors the continuity of the audio stream, much like your AVR is doing, and log problems.


As I do know, not all AVRs "know" the stream is broken to the same degree. For an example:
I have two Sony AVRs, one is a STRDE898 & the other, STR-DH710, is basically the same thing with HDMI added since it's newer.
The 898 had to be sent to DirecTV to use to resolve the Dolby problem with the HR24. This would trip and indicate the slightest loss of DD5.1, which not all could be heard. This model showed a 4 min repeating drop, which sometimes was so short I couldn't hear it.
The 710 would show a break, but it had to be much longer before it displayed them. My ears could hear more of them than the receiver would show.
I don't think all the commercials have Dolby either.
It may be "fairly trivial for them to write software", but there must be more to it than just this.
I "want to think" their equipment logs errors/status but maybe it doesn't or at least not the audio problems.
I think some of us see this as something that should be "easy or trivial" to fix, but the reality of is isn't, or they would have resolved it by now. The network broadcast center engineers aren't dumb and are interested in curing it. I can't imagine any of them think this is "acceptable".

Maybe they need to copy the detection circuit out of my Sony STR-DE898 with it's DD5.1 blue indicator light and connect this to their wall of monitors. Then either your "fairly trivial" software, or the real people can watch the blue light blink and know there is a problem. :shrug:


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> The key is this has been going on for way too long and we keep hearing they are working on a fix but nothing ever comes from it. If it is a known problem then I shouldn't be having someone call me from Directv after I sent Ellen an email about the situation then lied to and told it is not a national problem. The engineers may know it's a problem and our info could help them but unfortunately we get Directv employees telling us it is not a known problem and so the info is lost that could of potentially helped.
> They need to be straightforward about this and get a fix implemented and not try to cover it up.





betterdan said:


> What would be even more helpful is if they didn't try to have employees lie to customers and tell them it isn't a problem when they try to report it. Also it might be helpful if they had people taking down the info that had even a little bit of a clue about the equipment.


There is no question about the disconnect between the whole customer service division and the network engineering group.
The best I can figure is:
The customer service know little other than "their job"
The engineering group is completely separate.
The Field operations division has little contact with Customer service, and little with the engineering group.
The network broadcast center may fall under Field operations, but I'm not sure they share anything with anyone else.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

veryoldschool said:


> There is no question about the disconnect between the whole customer service division and the network engineering group.
> The best I can figure is:
> The customer service know little other than "their job"
> The engineering group is completely separate.
> The Field operations division has little contact with Customer service, and little with the engineering group.
> The network broadcast center may fall under Field operations, but I'm not sure they share anything with anyone else.


I've seen evidence of these things firsthand as well.

It underscores the need to deal with "the right people" for specific issues. CSR's, for example, would not be the place to expect anything more than scripted error message assistance. Tech Support has more than one level, and engineering has its own hardware-related focus.

For those very reasons, VOS....I bet you know this full infrastructure better than most when it comes to audio dropout diagnostics.


----------



## betterdan

Yep, speaking to the right people would be great. I kind of expected to be called by the right people after my email to Ellen, unfortunately I guess Directv didn't take me seriously and decided a guy that could lie to me and tell me I was just dreaming about the problem would shut me up. 
I guess when I replied back again then they decided they could let the cat out of the bag and let me in on the secret of the known audio problem. 

It seems it would have been easier if they took me seriously and just told me there was a known problem they were working on and asked me for some info from the beginning.


----------



## BKC

After nine months if they are still in the "gathering info on which channels have the problem stage" we/they are in serious trouble....


----------



## swans

betterdan said:


> The key is this has been going on for way too long and we keep hearing they are working on a fix but nothing ever comes from it. If it is a known problem then I shouldn't be having someone call me from Directv after I sent Ellen an email about the situation then lied to and told it is not a national problem. The engineers may know it's a problem and our info could help them but unfortunately we get Directv employees telling us it is not a known problem and so the info is lost that could of potentially helped.
> They need to be straightforward about this and get a fix implemented and not try to cover it up.


It is pretty obvious (to me at least) that DirecTV has a problem with the MPEG4 implementation of digital audio from their HD-DVRs to customer's AVRs.

_IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR WAY TO LONG!!!_

Either they really don't know what they are doing, or they have a serious flaw in their design and implementation of their HD delivery!


----------



## hasan

betterdan said:


> The key is this has been going on for way too long and we keep hearing they are working on a fix but nothing ever comes from it. If it is a known problem then I shouldn't be having someone call me from Directv after I sent Ellen an email about the situation then lied to and told it is not a national problem. The engineers may know it's a problem and our info could help them but unfortunately we get Directv employees telling us it is not a known problem and so the info is lost that could of potentially helped.
> They need to be straightforward about this and get a fix implemented and not try to cover it up.


While you work on fixing the communication problems, many of us are intensely interested in providing information to the people who are actually interested in fixing the problem at hand. Some of see this as the key, others are more broadly focused (and have a much more difficult job).

There are two sets of comments that have surfaced in this thread:

1. Audio drop-outs, their nature, frequency and any change or improvement.

2. Opinions about D*'s response to the problem and who deserves our wrath.

The people that can do something about it, are working on it (for the hundredth time). The other people are D*'s side of the noise issue.

You, of course, are free to take whatever approach you like. I just don't see such a shotgun approach being the most effective.

I didn't want the thread hijacked by #2 above, but have no control over it. So, you go ahead with #2, and I'll find another place to discuss the real problem (for me).


----------



## betterdan

hasan said:


> While you work on fixing the communication problems, many of us are intensely interested in providing information to the people who are actually interested in fixing the problem at hand. Some of see this as the key, others are more broadly focused (and have a much more difficult job).
> 
> There are two sets of comments that have surfaced in this thread:
> 
> 1. Audio drop-outs, their nature, frequency and any change or improvement.
> 
> 2. Opinions about D*'s response to the problem and who deserves our wrath.
> 
> The people that can do something about it, are working on it (for the hundredth time). The other people are D*'s side of the noise issue.
> 
> You, of course, are free to take whatever approach you like. I just don't see such a shotgun approach being the most effective.
> 
> I didn't want the thread hijacked by #2 above, but have no control over it. So, you go ahead with #2, and I'll find another place to discuss the real problem (for me).


I am very interested in fixing this problem. I have tried to report it and was met with resistance. This is a problem that needs to be fixed so that Directv can get more info on the problem. You can try to ignore the customer service problem and say it isn't a big deal while at the same time saying Directv needs more info but that sounds kind of stupid to be honest. Directv has to be willing to take down info about the problem when someone reports it in order for the info to get to the people working on the issue.

You are free to find another place to discuss this I couldn't care less to be honest, I want Directv to fix the problem is all. If you get upset by someone pointing out that Directv has customer service issues when someone tries to report the problem maybe it is best you leave the thread, I hate seeing grown men cry.

Now can we get back to discussing this problem and how to report the problem to Directv without having them deny it exists instead of having the thread hijacked by someone telling others how they should react and feel about this problem? Thanks


----------



## txfeinbergs

Directv should at least provide a list of AVRs that are most "compatible" with their system. I don't think Onkyo's and maybe even Denon's would be on the list.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

txfeinbergs said:


> Directv should at least provide a list of AVRs that are most "compatible" with their system. I don't think Onkyo's and maybe even Denon's would be on the list.


It may also come down to specific models, not just makes.

The number of folks with audio drop or similar issues is shrinking since the start...but there are still a few stragglers.


----------



## Barry in Conyers

Some things to remember about the audio drop out problem:

Audio drop outs are not caused by AVR's.

Audio drop outs are not a channel problem.

Audio drop outs are not caused by Dolby sound.

Audio drop outs are not caused by receiver software (_with the possible exception of the Hx24's_)

Audio drop outs are caused by the DirecTV mpeg2-to-mpeg4 transcoding process.

Audio drop outs are a problem that was created by DirecTV and that can only be corrected by DirecTV.​
I am confident that DirecTV knows exactly what is causing the audio drop out problem. The other option is to assume that the DirecTV technical staff is ignorant / incompetent which I doubt.

I am confident that DirecTV would have already corrected the problem if they knew how to do so without major changes and major $$$$$.

I HOPE that DirecTV will do the right thing and put customers ahead of short term profit, but the problem drags on and on and on and on.

*Audio drop outs ceased being a technical issue a long time ago. The issue has become the lack of corrective action by DirecTV.*

Just my opinion, YMMV.


----------



## The Fuzz 53

I just got a call from somebody at Directv about the issue. He wanted to know some info about my receiver, but couldn't give it to him since I'm at work. He said he'll be in his office until 6pm Mountain time, and I get home around 6:30 eastern, so I'll call him back when I get home and see what info I can give them. Think his name was Matt.


----------



## BKC

Barry in Conyers said:


> Some things to remember about the audio drop out problem:
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by AVR's.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not a channel problem.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by Dolby sound.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by receiver software.
> 
> Audio drop outs are caused by the DirecTV mpeg2-to-mpeg4 transcoding process.
> 
> Audio drop outs are a problem that was created by DirecTV and that can only be corrected by DirecTV.​
> I am confident that DirecTV knows exactly what is causing the audio drop out problem. The other option is to assume that the DirecTV technical staff is ignorant / incompetent which I doubt.
> 
> I am confident that DirecTV would have already corrected the problem if they knew how to do so without major changes and major $$$$$.
> 
> I HOPE that DirecTV will do the right thing and put customers ahead of short term profit, but the problem drags on and on and on and on.
> 
> *Audio drop outs ceased being a technical issue a long time ago. The issue has become the lack of corrective action by DirecTV.*
> 
> Just my opinion, YMMV.


----------



## mndwalsh

Watched Rescue Me, Penn & Teller, and Hung last night and all had major audio drops. My wife actually asked if we could switch to cable, that is how bad it is getting and the drops are getting worse not better.


----------



## swans

Barry in Conyers said:


> Some things to remember about the audio drop out problem:
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by AVR's.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not a channel problem.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by Dolby sound.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by receiver software.
> 
> Audio drop outs are caused by the DirecTV mpeg2-to-mpeg4 transcoding process.
> 
> Audio drop outs are a problem that was created by DirecTV and that can only be corrected by DirecTV.​
> I am confident that DirecTV knows exactly what is causing the audio drop out problem. The other option is to assume that the DirecTV technical staff is ignorant / incompetent which I doubt.
> 
> *I am confident that DirecTV would have already corrected the problem if they knew how to do so without major changes and major $$$$$.*
> 
> I HOPE that DirecTV will do the right thing and put customers ahead of short term profit, but the problem drags on and on and on and on.
> 
> *Audio drop outs ceased being a technical issue a long time ago. The issue has become the lack of corrective action by DirecTV.*
> 
> Just my opinion, YMMV.


Maybe we'll get a free "bumper.":lol:


----------



## mndwalsh

swans said:


> Maybe we'll get a free "bumper.":lol:


I always love that one


----------



## RAD

I recored The Colbert Report last night on a HR24-500 and HR23-700. Both STB's had the same two audio issues at the same place, which again points to issues at DirecTV and not the STB's. I could hear a drop when played through an AVR via HDMI and DD on. When played through a TV it didn't come out as a drop but distorted, almost like the he was talking underwater.


----------



## txfeinbergs

"Barry in Conyers" said:


> Some things to remember about the audio drop out problem:
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by AVR's.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not a channel problem.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by Dolby sound.
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by receiver software (with the possible exception of the Hx24's)
> 
> Audio drop outs are caused by the DirecTV mpeg2-to-mpeg4 transcoding process.
> 
> Audio drop outs are a problem that was created by DirecTV and that can only be corrected by DirecTV.
> 
> I am confident that DirecTV knows exactly what is causing the audio drop out problem. The other option is to assume that the DirecTV technical staff is ignorant / incompetent which I doubt.
> 
> I am confident that DirecTV would have already corrected the problem if they knew how to do so without major changes and major $$$$$.
> 
> I HOPE that DirecTV will do the right thing and put customers ahead of short term profit, but the problem drags on and on and on and on.
> 
> Audio drop outs ceased being a technical issue a long time ago. The issue has become the lack of corrective action by DirecTV.
> 
> Just my opinion, YMMV.


I understand that, but the resulting symptom (not the underlying cause) is more noticeable on certain brands/models of receivers. Let's face it, it isn't like Directv is going to fix it on their end (in a timely manner anyway.) A list of "compatible" receivers would go a certain distance to making a few people happy. (those in the market for a new receiver or with disposable funds)


----------



## veryoldschool

Barry in Conyers said:


> Some things to remember about the audio drop out problem:
> 
> 
> Audio drop outs are not caused by AVR's.
> Audio drop outs are not a channel problem.
> Audio drop outs are not caused by Dolby sound.
> Audio drop outs are not caused by receiver software (_with the possible exception of the Hx24's_)
> Audio drop outs are caused by the DirecTV mpeg2-to-mpeg4 transcoding process.
> Audio drop outs are a problem that was created by DirecTV and that can only be corrected by DirecTV.
> 
> I am confident that DirecTV knows exactly what is causing the audio drop out problem. The other option is to assume that the DirecTV technical staff is ignorant / incompetent which I doubt.
> 
> I am confident that DirecTV would have already corrected the problem if they knew how to do so without major changes and major $$$$$.
> 
> I HOPE that DirecTV will do the right thing and put customers ahead of short term profit, but the problem drags on and on and on and on.
> 
> *Audio drop outs ceased being a technical issue a long time ago. The issue has become the lack of corrective action by DirecTV.*
> 
> Just my opinion, YMMV.


This [yours] seems like a good list.


The only part the AVR plays in this is that some seem to magnify the problem. I wouldn't myself change my AVR because of DirecTV's problem. I'm lucky what I have doesn't seem to magnify them.
Since not every channel has the same problem, I'm completely "sold" it's not a channel problem. Some of this may be due to what the provider is sending. TNT seems to have more of them and are mostly sending "re-runs" shows. They could be sending something less than a "pristine audio track", that is causing the transcoder to dropout. This isn't to suggest it's not still a DirecTV problem to resolve, as they're still our provider and not TNT.
Dolby does seem to be part of this, but it may only be that Dolby code suffers more/first with the problem. As I've seen testing the HR24 Dolby can dropout when the sound doesn't. This seems to point to the duration of the loss. The shortest ones will trigger my Sony to show the blip, but it takes a longer duration to actually have a loss of sound. Again, I'm not saying it's a "Dolby" problem.
All MPEG-4 receivers had this and if it was in the hardware or firmware, then all channels would have this and we'd see it all the time. Since [again] it varies by channel and even by shows, it can't be in the receivers. The HR24s do have a fix coming for "their problem", which will simply bring them in line with all the other MPEG-4 receivers. I was testing the 24 last night and found while "the fix is in", it suffered from the SAT feed dropouts on Penn & Teller.
No question here. Regardless of what the provider is sending DirecTV, they need to be able to give us something that is no worse than what the provider is sending and their MPEG-4 conversion is worse.
In general I agree, but the "created by DirecTV" sounds like this was intentional, which is a stretch for me.
First we had lipsync issues, so they changed the firmware [I'd guess]
Then we had the brriipps, as they tightened up the timing.
Now they've blanked out the brriipps and we have dropouts. In this narrow view, yes, they created the current problem.

Having them at all still sucks and DirecTV still needs to resolve them. Too bad they aren't something as easy/simple to fix as the receiver firmware is to fix.


----------



## betterdan

swans said:


> Maybe we'll get a free "bumper.":lol:


:lol:


----------



## Barry in Conyers

veryoldschool said:


> In general I agree, but the "created by DirecTV" sounds like this was intentional, which is a stretch for me.


VOS,

When I say "created by DirecTV", I am not suggesting or insinuating that DirecTV intentionally created the problem. I am saying that the problem is the direct result of decisions made by and actions taken by DirecTV. DirecTV tested (or should have tested) the Harmonic transcoding system, selected the system, purchased the system, installed the system and operates the system. Harmonic is responsible to DirecTV, but DirecTV is responsible to their customers for the performance of the transcoding system. I certainly don't have any reason to think the situation is intentional, but I also do not have any reason to think that the situation has been addressed in a timely manner (quite the opposite).

FWIW, I suspect the the DirecTV technical staff can quickly address the problem if they are given the necessary resources and are allowed to do so.

As a final comment, preventing problems before they happen is much faster, much less expensive and much less aggravating to all concerned than allowing problems to happen and then slapping bandaids all over the place to "fix" a problem that could and should have been prevented.

Again, just my opinion.


----------



## RAD

I happened to notice on the Colbert Report example they had a graphic of a waving flag in the background. When the audio problem hit the flag also showed a jump in its movement on both the HR24 and HR23 recording.


----------



## BKC

swans said:


> Maybe we'll get a free "bumper.":lol:


That will carry a two year commitment. :lol:


----------



## joed32

txfeinbergs said:


> I understand that, but the resulting symptom (not the underlying cause) is more noticeable on certain brands/models of receivers. Let's face it, it isn't like Directv is going to fix it on their end (in a timely manner anyway.) A list of "compatible" receivers would go a certain distance to making a few people happy. (those in the market for a new receiver or with disposable funds)


Dropouts happen for me with or without an AV receiver. If they put out a list of compatible AVs and mine wasn't on it I would simply switch providers. My sound system cost a lot more than my DVRs.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RAD said:


> I happened to notice on the Colbert Report example they had a graphic of a waving flag in the background. When the audio problem hit the flag also showed a jump in its movement on both the HR24 and HR23 recording.


Poor quality looped background video perhaps?

I've seen that for quite some time, even on a Comcast user HDTV.


----------



## RAD

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Poor quality looped background video perhaps?
> 
> I've seen that for quite some time, even on a Comcast user HDTV.


Nope, since I only saw it at the same occurance of the audio glitch and not at any other time.


----------



## je4755

RAD said:


> Nope, since I only saw it at the same occurance of the audio glitch and not at any other time.


I recently upgraded my A/V receiver from a three-year old Yamaha to a Denon 3311. I now notice a very-subtle stutter in the video (not evident with the Yamaha) when an audio dropout occurs, as happened last night three times in a recorded "Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives" and twice during a recorded "No Reservations."


----------



## olc

The Fuzz 53 said:


> I just got a call from somebody at Directv about the issue. He wanted to know some info about my receiver, but couldn't give it to him since I'm at work. He said he'll be in his office until 6pm Mountain time, and I get home around 6:30 eastern, so I'll call him back when I get home and see what info I can give them. Think his name was Matt.


They don't care. I have escalated this to the President's office and all I get are it's something wrong with my equipment. It's most noticeable on my Rotel HT processor, but it also happens in my bedroom set up which is a TV and an HR22 connected via HDMI. They blame it on my processor and just play deaf when I say it happens through a TV as well. They also appear not to want to understand that NOTHING has changed in my system since over a year before this started and not in the last several months when it has become remarkably worse.

It's something they or the programming providers are doing. Every time I call they claim they know nothing about the problem and no one else has complained. Since I complained, that's just a lie. My wife is pushing to go to Dish or Cox cable but I'd rather DirecTV admit the problem and fix it. They keep denying it and keep insisting a service call will fix it. They have reformatted the hard drive, forced a software upgrade, even moved the dish (claiming an alignment issue) with no change.

Here's the channels I've seen the problem on in the last week since I've begun documenting each dropout I notice: Showtime, HBO, TNT, USA, CNN, Bravo.

Anyone know if this is a problem with Dish also? A Google search shows for Dish audio dropouts comes up with virtually nothing compared to the same search for DirecTV. If not, DirecTV is out of excuses.


----------



## DarinC

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The number of folks with audio drop or similar issues is shrinking since the start...but there are still a few stragglers.


Has the occurrence of the drop-outs shrunk, or have people just stopped complaining because they've given up on DirecTV even admitting there's a problem, much less fixing it? At this point, I consider audio drop-outs to be a normal trait of DirecTV service. I think I've learned to subconsciously read lips well enough that sometimes I don't even notice it unless I pay attention.



Barry in Conyers said:


> Audio drop outs are caused by the DirecTV mpeg2-to-mpeg4 transcoding process.





olc said:


> Here's the channels I've seen the problem on in the last week since I've begun documenting each dropout I notice: Showtime, *HBO*, TNT, USA, CNN, Bravo.


Wouldn't that suggest that it's NOT an MPEG2 to MPEG4 transcoding issue? I thought they were supposed to have switched to an MPEG4 feed from HBO a long time ago.


----------



## je4755

DarinC said:


> Has the occurrence of the drop-outs shrunk, or have people just stopped complaining because they've given up on DirecTV even admitting there's a problem, much less fixing it? At this point, I consider audio drop-outs to be a normal trait of DirecTV service. I think I've learned to subconsciously read lips well enough that sometimes I don't even notice it unless I pay attention.


If my own attitude reflects other D* subscribers, your assertion is more accurate than hdtvfan0001's sanguine view cited in your last post. As with many contributors to this thread, I have experienced audio dropouts for months (employing three different D* boxes and four different A/V receivers). Since the dropouts occur only once every ten to twenty minutes, I simply have learned to tolerate them. Nevertheless, I share everyone's frustration the dropouts have not been eliminated and greatly appreciate the efforts of VOS and others who have pressed senior D* staff on this matter.


----------



## Die Hard

I watched Pirates of the Caribbean on USAHD this evening with Dolby Digital turned of on my satellite receiver (listening thru Dolby Pro Logic) and I still got the audio dropouts, some associated with a picture stutter. So at least for me, turning Dolby Digital off did not help.

Earlier today, I watched a 2 hour PPV movie without any audio dropouts. 
I always have at least 2 audio dropouts per hour when watching a HD channel, so why none with a PPV movie. To me, it's just another obvious sign that it's the signal that DTV is sending me and not my equipment.

One thing I don't understand is why don't more people have this issue?
For example, a friend of mine who lives just 5 miles away from me, and who has basically the same set-up as I do, does not have any audio dropouts.

I too, am in touch again with the customer advocacy team for a second time and I'm sure they will come back with the same excuse that it's me and not them.


----------



## veryoldschool

Die Hard said:


> One thing I don't understand is why don't more people have this issue?


This is a good question.

One would think if two customers were watching the same channel/show, that they both would notice them/it.

Along this line: During the testing of the HR24 and its DD5.1 dropouts, I've had someone else record the same show at the same time.

I played it back with the internally generated dropouts.

He played it back and heard none. 

Had my HR24 replaced and then new one did the same thing, so it didn't look like bad hardware.

The Firmware was found to be the cause of it and has been fixed.

Why could someone else with the same hardware & defective software not hear what I did with every recording with DD5.1? 

Maybe some of us simply listen better than others.


----------



## DarinC

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe some of us simply listen better than others.


Well, they do seem more subtle than they used to be. I remember quite a long time ago (well over a year) where we had audio drop outs that were accompanied with some kind of pop or other noise, and they seemed to be on a more frequent cycle. I don't experience any noise any more. It's a much more subtle brief mute, much like having just a single "bad" word edited out.


----------



## betterdan

For me it's like having a single bad sentence edited out.


----------



## gitarzan

I left DirecTV six months ago. I was experiencing frequent intermittent audio dropouts with my HR21.

I signed back up a few weeks ago and got new HR24. It has double the audio dropouts I had with the HR21. Plus I also lose audio completely if I over use trick play until I red button restart.


----------



## veryoldschool

gitarzan said:


> I left DirecTV six months ago. I was experiencing frequent intermittent audio dropouts with my HR21.
> 
> I signed back up a few weeks ago and got new *HR24*. It has double the audio dropouts I had with the HR21. Plus I also lose audio completely if I over use trick play until I red button restart.


Some of this will improve with the next firmware release, as the current one still has a problem with anything but "live TV". I had a repeat rate of every 4 mins. This has been addressed for the next release.
Trickplay has yet to be sorted out though. I haven't had to reboot mine for it, but 30 sec skips randomly do strange things and I need to either skip ahead or back to get it playing again.


----------



## Die Hard

veryoldschool said:


> This is a good question.
> 
> One would think if two customers were watching the same channel/show, that they both would notice them/it.
> 
> Along this line: During the testing of the HR24 and its DD5.1 dropouts, I've had someone else record the same show at the same time.
> 
> I played it back with the internally generated dropouts.
> 
> He played it back and heard none.
> 
> Had my HR24 replaced and then new one did the same thing, so it didn't look like bad hardware.
> 
> The Firmware was found to be the cause of it and has been fixed.
> 
> Why could someone else with the same hardware & defective software not hear what I did with every recording with DD5.1?
> 
> Maybe some of us simply listen better than others.


VOS

Are you saying that the firmware update fixed your HR24 and it is now free of the audio dropouts? What about your other sat. receivers, do they still have the audio dropouts?


----------



## veryoldschool

Die Hard said:


> VOS
> 
> Are you saying that the firmware update fixed your HR24 and it is now free of the audio dropouts? What about your other sat. receivers, do they still have the audio dropouts?


The test version of firmware I'm running has fixed the HR24-500 problem, "BUT" it can't fix the SAT feed problem.
There are or were two Audio dropout issues. The oldest is in the SAT feed and effects all MPEG-4 receivers.
This masked a problem with the HR24-500, because its problem was being dismissed as the SAT feed problem.
The HR24-500 has/had a DD5.1 problem with playback from the drive or from the network using MRV.
This is what the new firmware has resolved.


----------



## Die Hard

veryoldschool said:


> The test version of firmware I'm running has fixed the HR24-500 problem, "BUT" it can't fix the SAT feed problem.
> There are or were two Audio dropout issues. The oldest is in the SAT feed and effects all MPEG-4 receivers.
> This masked a problem with the HR24-500, because its problem was being dismissed as the SAT feed problem.
> The HR24-500 has/had a DD5.1 problem with playback from the drive or from the network using MRV.
> This is what the new firmware has resolved.


I'm relatively new to this forum so please forgive me if I seem to be asking redundant questions. With the research that I have done it appears that you are or have been in touch with DirecTV about the audio problems. Do you know when or if these problems will be fixed?

I have had these same audio dropouts since last fall on 3 Different set-ups. 
H20/600 connected via HDMI to a Samsung tv. *No AVR involved*.
H21/100 connected via HDMI to a Panasonic tv with an optical connection to a Sony STR-DE845 AVR.
H23/600 connected via HDMI to a Denon AVR then on via HDMI to a Panasonic tv.
I hear it on all. Obviously it's not my AVR's etc.


----------



## betterdan

veryoldschool said:


> Some of this will improve with the next firmware release, as the current one still has a problem with anything but "live TV". I had a repeat rate of every 4 mins. This has been addressed for the next release.
> Trickplay has yet to be sorted out though. I haven't had to reboot mine for it, but 30 sec skips randomly do strange things and I need to either skip ahead or back to get it playing again.


So the HR24 problems haven't been completely resolved with the newer firmware since you are still having trick play audio problems?
Glad I didn't end up getting an HR24 when they replaced my receiver then. The audio drops are bad enough, if I then started getting trickplay audio problems too I would have been pissed.


----------



## veryoldschool

betterdan said:


> So the HR24 problems haven't been completely resolved with the newer firmware since you are still having trick play audio problems?
> Glad I didn't end up getting an HR24 when they replaced my receiver then. The audio drops are bad enough, if I then started getting trickplay audio problems too I would have been pissed.


Trickplay on the HR24 is kind of like the old "pinky" in the early days of the HR20.
It's not always a problem/there, but pops up every now and then and has been there since day one of them.
One skip ahead or back gets it going again for me.


----------



## veryoldschool

Die Hard said:


> I'm relatively new to this forum so please forgive me if I seem to be asking redundant questions. With the research that I have done it appears that you are or have been in touch with DirecTV about the audio problems. Do you know when or if these problems will be fixed?


I've sent a message off asking for anything they can say about it. I have yet to get a reply. :shrug:


----------



## swans

olc said:


> They don't care. ...
> 
> ... They keep denying it and keep insisting a service call will fix it. They have reformatted the hard drive, forced a software upgrade, even moved the dish (claiming an alignment issue) with no change.


DirecTV doesn't care. They want to make the whole problem an inconvenience for us and say it is a problem with our equipment.


----------



## swans

DarinC said:


> Has the occurrence of the drop-outs shrunk, or have people just stopped complaining because they've given up on DirecTV even admitting there's a problem, much less fixing it? *At this point, I consider audio drop-outs to be a normal trait of DirecTV service.* I think I've learned to subconsciously read lips well enough that sometimes I don't even notice it unless I pay attention.
> 
> Wouldn't that suggest that it's NOT an MPEG2 to MPEG4 transcoding issue? I thought they were supposed to have switched to an MPEG4 feed from HBO a long time ago.


I could never recommend DirecTV to any body at this point.:nono2:


----------



## john18

swans said:


> DirecTV doesn't care. They want to make the whole problem an inconvenience for us and say it is a problem with our equipment.


I respectfully disagree. Why would D* do that when it would undoubtedly cause additional service calls and/or receiver replacements?

I agree with VOS and trust him when he says that the engineering team is both aware of the issue and working to find the problem in the encoding/decoding of the signal where failures cause AVR's to lose the DD audio feed momentarily before they once again find it. Also, perhaps you missed it in either this thread or a similar thread where VOS was discussing the loaner AVR he had been provided while his AVR was off at D* so they could replicate the issues he has been reporting.

I personally have the same audio dropout issues on my Onkyo and am content that the problem is being analyzed and that a fix will be found.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Let's continue discussion here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=182017


----------

