# Even Tivo is not infallible



## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Saw this NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/technology/20tivo.html

"One of the main selling features of digital video recorders is their ability to record programs without the viewer having to enter start and stop times. It was unclear why certain shows were cut short on the malfunctioning TiVo's. The company's engineers isolated the problem to Series 2 machines (TiVo units integrated into DirecTV receivers were not affected). "

As has been said before, while the R15 gets bashed on TCF, all DVR's have their problems.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Saw this NYT article:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/technology/20tivo.html
> 
> ...


I just sent this link to someone a little while ago. :lol:

Kinda funny


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I have been in the TCF off and on since this all began and noticed Earl has been taking some shots about R15 vs Tivo and happened to see this and thought people ought to know that there is no such thing as error free. And that software is always evolving or becomes obsolete.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Apparently the box needs to run without being rebooted for several months for this bug to show up. Maybe someday the R15 will be stable enough to see if such a bug exists.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

walters said:


> Apparently the box needs to run without being rebooted for several months for this bug to show up. Maybe someday the R15 will be stable enough to see if such a bug exists.


See, forward thinking engineering. I just knew this box had hidden value. I just wish it wasn't so hard to find.:lol:


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Wouldn't it be nice if a DirecTV representative showed up here in response to a bug report, passed it on to engineering, publicly posted a temporary fix (rebooting) within a few days, and then reported that the permanent fix had been incorporated into the latest software rollout? That's exactly what happened in this case on the TCF board. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=286209)


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Maybe we'll be surprised some day. Just like we were the day Richard showed up over there.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

ISWIZ said:


> Saw this NYT article:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/technology/20tivo.html
> 
> ...


step away from the directv koolaid .......

the tivos as of this date are 10,000% more reliable and stable than an r15

this was the case of a bug 1 in how many years compiled with a guide bug

count how many guide / show not recording bugs r15 has

and you will see r15 will record less than the tivo

send the article writer our current r15 and then let him write an article and compare them


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if a DirecTV representative showed up here in response to a bug report, passed it on to engineering, publicly posted a temporary fix (rebooting) within a few days, and then reported that the permanent fix had been incorporated into the latest software rollout? That's exactly what happened in this case on the TCF board. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=286209)


They are "here"... just not in an official capacity.
They are still trying to work out logistics of particpating in an official capacity.

Till then.... you got me  I guess


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> step away from the directv koolaid .......
> 
> the tivos as of this date are 10,000% more reliable and stable than an r15
> 
> ...


How about you step away from the ax and hammer you have pointed at the R15.
The thread was posted to point out that even the beloved TiVo isn't perfect.

And there have been many other cases... this is just the latest... So it is not the first, nor the last issue the TiVo powered units have.

Does that make the R15 better then the TiVo... no... it just means that even though TiVo has a 6 year head start and is the premier DVR builder in the world... even their product has issues.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

walters said:


> Apparently the box needs to run without being rebooted for several months for this bug to show up. Maybe someday the R15 will be stable enough to see if such a bug exists.


That's a design enhancement for the R15. The RESET button and freezes. :lol:


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

After thinking about it....

Even though we have "added" an R15 hook to it... this belongs more in the TiVo forum.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> They are "here"... just not in an official capacity.
> They are still trying to work out logistics of particpating in an official capacity.
> 
> Till then.... you got me  I guess


why do the feel the need to hide? would directv higher ups be pissed they are posting in a forum such as this ?

or would be the obligatory excuse "if we revealed ourselves.. we would be hounded for requests" a lame excuse

that is what they are for, getting tons of feedback and fixxing problems asap


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> After thinking about it....
> 
> Even though we have "added" an R15 hook to it... this belongs more in the TiVo forum.


Nope, doesn't belong here, either. No DirecTV with TiVo combo has this issue.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Nope, doesn't belong here, either. No DirecTV with TiVo combo has this issue.


Actually by you saying that... just gave it a home here....

Now it has an official DirecTivo hook in....

 I love loopholes...


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The thread was posted to point out that even the beloved TiVo isn't perfect.


It's a straw man that gets thrown out here regularly. No one, except perhaps for the most egregious trolls, ever claims that tivos are "perfect". And you seem to be the only one who regularly describes tivos as "beloved".


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> It's a straw man that gets thrown out here regularly. No one, except perhaps for the most egregious trolls, ever claims that tivos are "perfect". And you seem to be the only one who regularly describes tivos as "beloved".


Oh there are many people who think TiVo is perfect.  Most people know there is no such things as perfection though. TiVo makes mistakes, at times many of them. They have a very good product though. To be honest I think (well hope) that the R15 will soon become as stable as my TiVos are, but even if it does it still won't be perfect.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> It's a straw man that gets thrown out here regularly. No one, except perhaps for the most egregious trolls, ever claims that tivos are "perfect". And you seem to be the only one who regularly describes tivos as "beloved".


I put "beloved" out there to ruffle the feathers.... 
As based on the posts over at TCF, that is a good term for it (IMHO)... It is loved, almost to a fault.

I don't think either the TiVo or the R15 products are "prefect"
They both have a home in my house... for now.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> why do the feel the need to hide? would directv higher ups be pissed they are posting in a forum such as this ?
> 
> or would be the obligatory excuse "if we revealed ourselves.. we would be hounded for requests" a lame excuse
> 
> that is what they are for, getting tons of feedback and fixxing problems asap


It probably has nothing to do with being "houded" for requests.

If you take a look at this post over on their "own" forum boards
http://forums.directv.com/pe/action...read?rootPostID=10135659&returnExpertiseCode=

This is from one of our past posters here (who was banned from the forum for violating rulles, such as having multiple accounts).
He lists and list and lists features that are important to him.
They are valid requests, but posting in that fashion they get lost and don't get the indepth discussion they deserve.

It probably has to do with "legality" too.

If an OFFICIAL DirecTV response was to come on to a forum board... It could be used all over the place... So with that... they couldn't respond quick enough in a forum enviornment... Companies as big as DirecTV go through Legal departments to make sure what they are saying.. CAN be said.

What if they said on X day they are going to release something.
But it didn't come out to Y.... Everyone jumps all over the CSRs for saying it... could you imagin the level it would at if it was in Typed form....

Either way... they are here and reading what we post.
Just because they don't have a "live" two way conversation with all of us, doesn't mean they don't listen to what say...

Or respond in their own way.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It probably has nothing to do with being "houded" for requests.
> 
> If you take a look at this post over on their "own" forum boards
> http://forums.directv.com/pe/action...read?rootPostID=10135659&returnExpertiseCode=
> ...


read that link, sound interesting, since you say they need in depth discussion and you are a moderator, why not put each up as a sticky and we discuss them ?

If directv put all through legal, what they say, they would not make as many outlandish staements as they do.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

We had one large thread... it got out of control..
That that particular poster started to post similar type LIST posts... too many things for one thread, and it quickly got out of control.

So we are taking a different approach.... 
One aspect at a time, so it can get the time it deserves and we can have a more indepth conversation on it.




And regarding "going" through legal.... that is just my speculation... 


Either way...... If they find it prudent to post and particpate in our forums... They are welcome... Until then........ I guess we can only speculate..


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> We had one large thread... it got out of control..
> That that particular poster started to post similar type LIST posts... too many things for one thread, and it quickly got out of control.
> 
> So we are taking a different approach....
> ...


where is latest in depth feture sticky thread then ?

also for (in my opinion) to have R15(an all future directv dvr's) be better than R10

it MUST have all features that R10 had and many more new ones and be stable and not have to babysit it,


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

It is at the top of the R15 forum..

Just so long as it doesn't include all the "features" that are considered bad on the unit... I mean... the slow guide, the limit on WishList results, the color of the unit being lost (aka when it goes to B&W for no reason), the please wait for 5 minutes when you do a significant changes to the Season Pass list....


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It is at the top of the R15 forum..
> 
> Just so long as it doesn't include all the "features" that are considered bad on the unit... I mean... the slow guide, the limit on WishList results, the color of the unit being lost (aka when it goes to B&W for no reason), the please wait for 5 minutes when you do a significant changes to the Season Pass list....


1. why that face " " ?

2. that list is 3 days old

how about new ones ? ...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

#1: It is a  Wink.... As in... sarcasim, joke, or "this last statement was a restating of the obvious"

#2: We will start a different topic very shortly...


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> #1: It is a  Wink.... As in... sarcasim, joke, or "this last statement was a restating of the obvious"
> 
> #2: We will start a different topic very shortly...


ok, also when oh1F to be loaded by on r15 ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> ok, also when oh1F to be loaded by on r15 ?


oh1F?

Do you mean the next software version? 10AF ?


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> oh1F?
> 
> Do you mean the next software version? 10AF ?


yea i did, but with this screwball numbering they are using ox1044 108 109 then back to 103

why not a simple way like this

r15 ( for model number 1(1st version of software) a(1st update of it)

then so on

r151 .... then 1st update be r151a .... and then r151b and so on

if new version is out r152 then r152a r152b and son on ?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

They are using a HEX number system (at least that is the path they took starting a version or two ago)

It is just the numbering method they chose. And it isn't that uncommon of a practice (using HEX numbers to denote builds)... Interger number are usually used as the base core version identifiers. But each company chooses their own method. 

10A3 - 10AF (14 builds later)...


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> They are using a HEX number system (at least that is the path they took starting a version or two ago)
> 
> It is just the numbering method they chose. And it isn't that uncommon of a practice (using HEX numbers to denote builds)... Interger number are usually used as the base core version identifiers. But each company chooses their own method.
> 
> 10A3 - 10AF (14 builds later)...


i understand software is complicated/etc but why not make the numbering system simple ?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Wow, so many members lately that don't have a SHIFT key on their PC. 

EDIT: How isn't 10A3 to 10AF simple? Hex 10A3 = decimal 4259. Hex 10AF = decimal 4271. Thus you have 12 builds not released to the customers. If you program or have to do with releasing software, it makes total sense.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The number is of importance to the development team...
All the user needs to do is be able to read it on the screen and report it back to the person asking for it.

x10A3 ; x10AF is a simple number system... just isn't decimal based.

Just like the TiVo Version number:
3.1.5f-01-2-357 (My HR10-250 software version)

There is sometimes more in a number, then just a version indicator.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Wow, so many members lately that don't have a SHIFT key on their PC.


?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't see the issue with their numbering scheme. It's fairly easy to understand and actually far easier to read back to someone then a much larger string. I have always dislike the convoluted systems where they start putting . and letters then another . and so forth.


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## thumperr (Feb 10, 2006)

As far as an earlier post on why no 'official' answers from D* there are some very valid reasons.

-	Reg FD, As Regulation Full Disclosure. http://www.sec.gov/rules/final/33-7881.htm This regulation requires public companies to disclose all material information evenly, so that all investors have the information at the same time. Some could argue product improvement and product releases are material information and require a press release from the company. so posting it to a forum would not be full disclosure. This is a matter a company must decide, and would do so with their counsel.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> I don't see the issue with their numbering scheme. It's fairly easy to understand and actually far easier to read back to someone then a much larger string. I have always dislike the convoluted systems where they start putting . and letters then another . and so forth.


O YEAH r151a (which means r15=model of unit 1= 1st version a=1st update)

and so on for each update

is sooo much harder to read than 10hf6 for the mass majority of the us population


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

joegrjoe said:


> is sooo much harder to read than 10hf6 for the mass majority of the us population


"h" isn't a valid Hex character. Only goes up to "f" (which = 15).


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

joegrjoe said:


> O YEAH r151a (which means r15=model of unit 1= 1st version a=1st update)
> 
> and so on for each update
> 
> is sooo much harder to read than 10hf6 for the mass majority of the us population


They need to know the model number in there for what reason?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> They are using a HEX number system


I like binary myself...

0001000010101111 = 10AF

or perhaps octal: 10257

But then binary, octal, decimal and hexadecimal are all too common. Why not express it in something like base 27? Or base 6? Oh, hey, it's an R15 so we'll use base 15 = 13EB

Carl


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

carl6 said:


> I like binary myself...
> 
> 0001000010101111 = 10AF
> 
> ...


Octal? Guessing you've worked on an HP somewhere back in time. :grin:


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

joegrjoe said:


> O YEAH r151a (which means r15=model of unit 1= 1st version a=1st update)
> 
> and so on for each update
> 
> is sooo much harder to read than 10hf6 for the mass majority of the us population


As another member (previous member  ) always dwelled on completely changing the unit, even down to the remote............why not they get the bugs fixed before we attempt to change the simplest version numbering system.


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## joegrjoe (Mar 17, 2006)

Donnie Byrd said:


> As another member (previous member  ) always dwelled on completely changing the unit, even down to the remote............why not they get the bugs fixed before we attempt to change the simplest version numbering system.


why the"" ?

i was talking let us have a numbering sysytem that is readable for allwho do not has a engineer knowledge

so the masses can read it .. so 75 year olds can look, and see , o this is the 3rd software we have had on this unit, without having rember the past ones, just by lookin can see it


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

The  is because that memeber was such a "pleasure" to deal with on the forums here... most of the members that have been around for the last couple weeks know the person we are speaking of.


The numbering system isn't for you or me or for the 75 or 3 year old.
It is a reference number (no different then say a BAR CODE for the software) for the support and technical staf. So long as it isn't done in shapes and symbols, and done in a way that it can be provided back via text or spoken word.......


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

joegrjoe said:


> why the"" ?
> 
> i was talking let us have a numbering sysytem that is readable for allwho do not has a engineer knowledge
> 
> so the masses can read it .. so 75 year olds can look, and see , o this is the 3rd software we have had on this unit, without having rember the past ones, just by lookin can see it


Get real will you please? In one breath you're complaining about the unit not recording all (and duplicate) episodes of The Dukes of Hazard correctly and then with another you think all available DTV resources should be dedicated to changing the software version numbering scheme so you can understand it.

Sometimes you make some very good points and other times, like this, I have to shake my head. :nono2: :nono2: :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:

Take a break dude! Focus on what's important and what's not. :sure: How DTV structures the software version numbering for the R15 is NOT important.

And now did the version numbering for the R15 get into a thread discussing the infallibility of Tivos? Oh, I remember how.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The  is because that memeber was such a "pleasure" to deal with on the forums here... most of the members that have been around for the last couple weeks know the person we are speaking of.


I think "to" would have worked as well as "of".


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Dejavu all over again???


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

morgantown said:


> Dejavu all over again???


Yes indeed, and once again GONE.


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