# Giving D* The Boot - Finally Had Enough!!



## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

Those who know me know that I have long been a champion of Sat-TV in general and most specifically DirecTV. Well, no more.

After 7 years as a faithful (platinum sub) customer, the party's over. Finito, Al Fin, Upso. No mas.

The final straw that broke the camel's back has to do with D*'s highly advertised "Mover's Connection.

(Obviously we're moving soon.)

We presently have 4 receivers subscribed; one HR20, one Hughes GAEBO, and two Hughes Platinum-HD (E86). 

Therein lies the rub: D* will not reconnect our two Platinum-HD E86 receivers when we move. Our two most favorite receivers which we dearly love and which we originally paid close to $500 each for. No. Instead, I'm being told that I have to take two more of their "P.O.S." H20 receivers PLUS take another 2-year contract!! I'm sorry, I already have one of the H20s and we hate it. Option, we can pay $120 addt'l to have our two E86's reinstalled. Bull$#@!!

I'm sorry, I know several of you who have never used or been exposed to anything better are probably enamoured with the H20 (and it's DVR variant), but take it from me folks, the H20 is a piece of technological excrement, inside and out, with a horrible, unintuitive user interface. Comparing the H20 to our Platinum-HD E86 is tantamount to comparing a Honda Civic to a Lexus LS430. The E86 is a grand receiver with a wonderful user interface and well-designed remote.

Yes, damnit, I realize that the national beam HD tier will one day be moving to the Ka birds, requiring new receivers, but it hasn't moved *yet*. Besides, other than HBO we do not watch any "national beam" HD for the simple reason that we do not subscribe to the HD tier. (not worth the money, IMO)

We do not need Ka reception capability either. OUR LOCALS are available OTA. So why are two H20's being shoved down my throat?

I'm already under contract for the 1st H20 and new AT9 dish, with a little over a year still to go. I do not want another 2-year contract.

Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of DTV's compulsory contracts. The 1-year contract was one thing, but a two-year contract is a whole other matter. Take your contract and shove it.

I can "BUY-OUT" of my present contract for $12.50 per month X the number of months remaining. In my case that amounts to $175. Granted, $175 doesn't grow on trees, but in the grand scheme of things it's not going to break me either. That's about what a speeding ticket will cost you around here. That check is a lot easier to write than you might think. I've finally had my belly full of DTV.

Time Warner is offering: (Promo deal # 352)
1. No stinking contract, cancel anytime and owe nothing.
2. Free installation (up to 4 receivers)
3. Move-in Special digital value package $39.99 monthly for 1st year ($56.99/mo after 1st yr)
4. Free HBO, Showtime, Movie Channel, Starz, Cinemax (45 total premium chans) for 6 months ($30/mo thereafter, or $10/mo for HBO package only)
5. Free Sports Pak for 6 months 
6. Upgrade to HD for a single ***ONE TIME PAYMENT*** of $29.95 !!!!!!! (Includes OTA option)
7. First receiver (HD) included in this deal, addt'l HD rcvrs $7/mo (addt'l std rcvrs $5).

Adios D*


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## cavihitts (Mar 11, 2007)

Enjoy & C-ya!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

While you may be gone from D*, feel welcomed to come back here and post. And will be interested in your comparisons of the Time-warner solution (DVR, service, PQ, etc.) with D*.

Take care,
Tom


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> While you may be gone from D*, feel welcomed to come back here and post. And will be interested in your comparisons of the Time-warner solution (DVR, service, PQ, etc.) with D*.
> 
> Take care,
> Tom


Well put Tom.....nice sentiment. 
I'll be interested in hearing/reading about the TW experience also.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I think the two year committment comes with the movers connection. I do not understand at all why they won't reconnect the older receivers, or would charge you for doing so.

As the others said, good luck with your new service, and let us know how it is working for you once you have a little hands on time.

Carl


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

> _"...the H20 is a piece of technological excrement"_


Never having been a D* sub, I am not familiar with that particular model, but your
brief, malodorous description speaks volumes.

When I (fortuitously) decided to switch to cable (Adelphia, now Comcast) E* was
"offering" the 921 HD DVR for $1000. After making the switch, I got two faultless
SA 8300 HD DVR's with no upfront charges and no commitment. Cable is local
and, in my area, service is excellent. If a newer model comes out, Comcast will
swap me out the next day out at no charge.

I like that.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I always seem to have dumb ideas. Maybe it's because I'm Blonde, but why not move yourself? Pack up your stuff, take it to your new place, & set it up there.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Sorry to hear you not happy. Isn't platnium the highest programming package you can get? It seems D* would want to do a little more to work with you. Maybe I'm missing something.

Out of curiousity, how many folks did you speak w/ and how far up the chain.

Good luck to you anyway. We'll keep a light on for ya.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ummm, why do you need them to hook up anything? All you need them to do at your new address is put up a new dish and any wiring. All your receivers are still active, just plug them in and go.


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## AlbertZeroK (Jan 28, 2006)

Okay, this is what to do. Have them install 4 recievers. Tell them that if you can't reactivate the E86's you want something else. They should give you free cheap recievers.

Then get them to install everything. Replace the two free recievers they send you with your E86's and call in and re-activate them. (Actually, you never have to deactivate them from you account.)


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## urnote96 (Jun 22, 2004)

When they come for the movers connection just tell the installer that you have all the receivers and that he does not need to bring the new ones.....I would do that for you...just install what you got....dont take the H20s just keep what you got....in the future though...you would wish that you would have taken the h20's when direct gets the MPEG going


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## Alexandrepsf (Oct 26, 2005)

He should not have to do any of these. D* must give him the same configuration at his new location, they failed and he did the good thing of dropping them. 

OP: Good luck to you. Share your experience with your new provider with us.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

veryoldschool said:


> Pack up your stuff, take it to your new place, & set it up there.


I think this may have more to do with the "new attitude" at DirecTV.


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## cforrest (Jan 20, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Ummm, why do you need them to hook up anything? All you need them to do at your new address is put up a new dish and any wiring. All your receivers are still active, just plug them in and go.


I agree with the above post. You may have to pay to get the dish and wiring done, but you can keep your receivers active & avoid having to take the H20s.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

harsh said:


> I think this may have more to do with the "new attitude" at DirecTV.


I haven't called D* for a while, but if this is their "new attitude", they haven't seen mine yet.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Curious question was this Retention that told you this after you told them to cancel your service?.


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## Conky (Apr 17, 2007)

It sounds to me like D* rubbed Cap'n the wrong way, and no suggestion about moving himself, or working with the installer directly is going to change his mind -- he's willing to pay more to get out of his contract than it would cost to have his receivers hooked up, and move to another company which will not support the HD receivers he so dearly loves. It must be the principle of the matter.

I agree that a customer with a top-tier package should be given a little leeway when it comes to policy. Whenever I have had issues, I have found that D* CS is willing to forgo charges, add packages, or do whatever it takes to keep me happy. I mean, you would think that D* would rather lose a $120 installation fee than lose a $100+/mo subscription fee.

A side note... does anyone else notice that something about Cap'n's post doesn't add up? He says he has an HR20, but does not subscribe to HD service; isn't HD service required to activate an HR20? Please, correct me if I'm wrong.


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## cavihitts (Mar 11, 2007)

prior to March 1 2007 it was not required.


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## morbid_fun (Jan 16, 2007)

Jhon69 said:


> Curious question was this Retention that told you this after you told them to cancel your service?.


Would not matter if he spoke to retention or another department. If the CSR attempts to do a movers on an account with an older HD receiver, the ordering system automatically prompts that the receiver needs to be replaced. I worked retention for five years until April and, as of my leaving, there was not a way to override that. All has to do with MPEG 4 obviously. Retention will usually do what they can to satisfy a customer, but within the limitations designed into the system.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

morbid_fun said:


> Would not matter if he spoke to retention or another department. If the CSR attempts to do a movers on an account with an older HD receiver, the ordering system automatically prompts that the receiver needs to be replaced. I worked retention for five years until April and, as of my leaving, there was not a way to override that. All has to do with MPEG 4 obviously. Retention will usually do what they can to satisfy a customer, but within the limitations designed into the system.


And why to "do it yourself".


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## samw (Jan 6, 2007)

Don't get me wrong... I love my D*, but...

I really dislike their practice of CSR roulette. What I mean is that you will get different "offers", etc depending on which CSR you talk to, whether its the frontline agents or the folks in rentention or "managers". Sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with some sleazy used car dealership in "negotiating" the "best" deal.

Some consumers probably like the practice. It makes them feel good that they got a "better" deal. For me, I just want to make the call, knowing what I need and how much its going to cost me and know I got the best deal they are offering at the time. No hassles, no worries.

The OP should have just been able to make one call and get the move done. It is a straightforward matter. Not be forced to get new receivers, especially when the current ones are working fine. Not be forced to sign a new contact which by the way a one month subscription at the Platinum level will fully recoup D*'s cost. Not have to deal with D*'s BS.

Again, I love my D*, but...


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

urnote96 said:


> When they come for the movers connection just tell the installer that you have all the receivers and that he does not need to bring the new ones.....I would do that for you...just install what you got....dont take the H20s just keep what you got....in the future though...you would wish that you would have taken the h20's when direct gets the MPEG going


+1. I do this almost everyday for customers.



> If the CSR attempts to do a movers on an account with an older HD receiver, the ordering system automatically prompts that the receiver needs to be replaced. I worked retention for five years until April and, as of my leaving, there was not a way to override that.


The CSR and retention may not be able to change the work order, but the HSP can get it changed for the customer.


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## MikeR7 (Jun 17, 2006)

He'll be back. Mark my word.


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## morbid_fun (Jan 16, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> +1. I do this almost everyday for customers.
> 
> The CSR and retention may not be able to change the work order, but the HSP can get it changed for the customer.


To answer veryoldschool and TigersFanJJ, the HSP and tech can certainly modify the job and can setup the current HD receivers, but the commitment would still be there. The guy can certainly do the install himself as well, that would be the only way to avoid a commitment.
One other possible way to do this is to go ahead with the order. Have the tech install the receivers and activate them, but then callback and have the new receivers unmirrored, but still active, and continue using the Hughes receivers. This way you will not be billed the 4.99 per receiver until they actually receive programming. I know that commitments are a point of contention with many people, but I get the impression that he does not really want to leave DirecTV as long as he can use the existing receivers. Hopefully some of these options will work for him.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

Having just gone through Movers Connection myself, my initial thought for Cap'n was to go ahead with what they're saying, let the installer run all the cables for the new boxes, refuse the new boxes before they're actually connected (never activated, doesn't trigger the two-year commitment) and connect the old receivers instead.

The only problem I saw with that is that, for me, the "replacement" receivers in my move were charged to a credit card (which they had to do for the equipment to be done in their system), then a credit back to my account to offset that charge. Worked out OK for me. One downside - in this situation where the new receivers would be refused, I could see the account credit being reversed right away and maybe not so "right away" on the credit card charge. A hassle, definitely, but the end result is the move, the desired receivers, and probably only a one-year commitment for the Movers Connection (I think that is the standard when no new receivers - or at least no new 'advanced technology' receivers are added at the time).

I feel bad that things went the way they did and couldn't be worked out. Good luck, Cap'n, with your future TV adventures.  Don't be a stranger!


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## jptx (Mar 3, 2007)

Cap'n - depending where you are on the Texas Gulf Coast, you may be very disappointed in TW's picture quality. In League City (SE of Houston), their "digital" signal is a joke, and the analog at times doesn't look much better than good ol' fashioned rabbit ears. I've had them out to look at it, but they haven't been able to do anything about it. My mother in law a few miles away has the same trouble. 

Thankfully we'll be out of temporary apt h*ll at the end of the week and my D* will be back on Friday morning in the new house.

This SA DVR TW gives out is a piece of junk! I don't care what some folks say on this board, I miss my R15s. What kind of DVR doesn't have a prioritizer function???


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## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

Cap'n Preshoot;939050 said:


> Those who know me know that I have long been a champion of Sat-TV in general and most specifically DirecTV. Well, no more.
> 
> After 7 years as a faithful (platinum sub) customer, the party's over. Finito, Al Fin, Upso. No mas.
> 
> ...


Wait til your promotional plan is over! Cable is an evil doer.


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## autumnghost (Feb 10, 2007)

Hey Cap'N. Whatcha gonna do with all those dishes on the chimney, (especially the Winegard 30'')?


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## wilbur_the_goose (Aug 16, 2006)

Cap'n - I was fully prepared and looking forward to hating the HR20. I've been a TiVo guy since the Phillips DSR-6000 D* TiVo. I love TiVo.

You know what - the HR20 is actually now a damn good machine. I was shocked when my wife said one night, "This is actually a lot better than the TiVo".

We sold our 2 HR10-250 on eBay without any sense of regret. Yep - I'm one of the schmucks that paid $999 for the 2 HR10-250's, and I got $200 each.

But I really do like the HR20.

You _might_ want to give it a look...

Either way, good luck


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 28, 2005)

Cap'n Preshoot;939050 said:


> Time Warner is offering: (Promo deal # 352)
> 1. No stinking contract, cancel anytime and owe nothing.
> 2. Free installation (up to 4 receivers)
> 3. Move-in Special digital value package $39.99 monthly for 1st year ($56.99/mo after 1st yr)
> ...


 You may want to read the LONG thread on avsforum about Time Warner and their set top box software. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830&highlight=sa8300

All cable companies, and TW in particular, are trying to move to Switched Digital Video to save bandwidth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_video As part of that move, TW is bringing their software design (DVR and regular receivers) in house. The previous software packages were SARA and Passport. Passport gets a mediocre reputation, SARA's is sickeningly poor. The new software is called Navigator. It apparently makes SARA look good. Meaning it seems to be about the worst STB software ever designed. *ALL* Time Warner franchises will eventually be switched to Navigator, since switched digital video won't work with SARA or Passport.

I really encourage to read the avsforum thread listed above. There are currently 871 messages in the thread and 99% of them are horror stories. If you're lucky enough to be in a Time Warner franchise that is still using Passport then you may be "ok" for a year or so but Navigator is coming to your town too.

Good luck!


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Good information. I read some bad things about Navigator as well. Never seen or used it though.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I see the troops are out in full force :lol: Cable will cause your head to explode, cable will make you sterile, everytime some one drops DirecTV in favor of cable God kills a puppy :lol: 

Good luck with the switch! I switched from DirecTV to Time Warner about a year and a half ago and haven’t looked back, and when my two year promo ends, you bet your ass I’m staying with TW. I had Dish Network for 5 years, DirecTV for another 2 years after that and after over 7 years with satellite TV I was a little worried about going back to cable, reliability and picture quality were my two main concerns. Back when we used to have TW, outages were frequent and picture quality sucked. But I was a Road Runner subscriber for quite a while before digital cable, and never had a problem, except for one at my end. Since I got Digital Cable on 2/1/06, in all that time I’ve had one 10 minute outage due to system maintenance at 1 in the morning and that’s it. It’s so nice not having to brush snow off a dish, or when it starts to rain heavier see macroblocking. Picture quality is awesome as my franchise does digital simulcast, and in an A-B comparison of standard definition content, Time Warner had better picture quality than DirecTV. I could not compare HD picture quality has I didn’t have an HD receiver from DirecTV. 

It was a real simple decision, $12.95/month (includes DVR fee and digital terminal/remote rental) for the HDDVR from TW, or $700 for the HD DirecTiVo, which would shortly be outdated, no HD locals and further service commitments. Shorty after cancellation I started getting calls from DirecTV retention, telling me all sorts of lies about the HD content they offered and offered me Total Choice Platinum with HD at a reduced cost and discounted hardware. They would call constantly, and even woke me up once at about 9:30 in the morning.

Check your TW franchises website for service policies. How often on here do you read about satellite installers being late, on the rude side on not willing to do an install for some reason? My division has a policy, if an installer or tech is late or does not complete the job to your satisfaction, you will receive a $20 invoice credit. If you have a service outage lasting more than 4 hours, you will also receive a credit. When I had the issue with Road Runner I mentioned above, which was clearly on my end, I received a full invoice credit, and it wasn’t even a continuous outage. The cable that ran from the pole to my basement was the original cable line from when we first got cable in the late 80s, our newly put in concrete driveway crushed the incoming cable line, and once day I started getting intermitted outages, 10 minutes here, 15 there, called up tech support the next day and since the series of outages lasted over four hours I was entitled to the credit. 

I have never used any DirecTV DVR besides the DirecTiVo, and from the way it sounds, I never want to. All these problems posted here about the HR20s and the R15s, I don’t have any of them with my 8300HDs. The DVRs have been just as rock solid as my DirecTiVos were, and it’s not even in the same league as the DishDVRs I had (501s and 508s). The Scientific Atlanta DVRs don’t have a well polished user interface like TiVo, but hey it works, and works well. My division runs the SARA software currently. And it is NOT true about SDV. Yes, Navigator will probably make its way to all TW franchises eventually. My TW franchise is frequently used a test market when it comes to new features and service for all three TW products. We’re usually either the first or second franchise to get new stuff. We don’t have Navigator yet, to my surprise, but SDV is testing here and has been for a little over a year. MHD, A&E HD, Universal HD, digital simulcast and all future HD channels will be done in SDV, and it woks absolutely fine with the SARA software. Likewise I have no problems with SARA, other then the on a 16x9 display, the EPG and menu are displayed in 4x3. Again, my HDDVRs are solid as a rock and have been since day 1. Scientific Atlanta 8300HD= DirecTiVo in my book. 

Cable has faced many challenges from satellite, and the good cable companies have been proactive and have adapted. It’s been said many times that one cable system is not the same as the rest, and this is especially true with Time Warner. Each Time Warner franchise makes their own rules, sets pricing and offerings, service varies from one area to the next. There’s too many things to consider on the TV side of things but for examples sake I’ll use broadband. I pay $49.90 for 15Mb/1Mb Road Runner in an area that will never see Fios (95% of the area is served by Fronier), the franchise next to me where Fios is available in some parts changes $44.95 for 5Mb/384Kb. Due to boundaries oddities, I could get Fios one day as Verizon is my ILEC, but I hate Verizon. Time Warner provides me with great service, TV and broadband, Verizon's POTS will be history in this house once I can get Digital Phone. I'm happy all around, no reason to switch.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

wilbur_the_goose said:


> Cap'n - I was fully prepared and looking forward to hating the HR20. I've been a TiVo guy since the Phillips DSR-6000 D* TiVo. I love TiVo.
> 
> You know what - the HR20 is actually now a damn good machine. I was shocked when my wife said one night, "This is actually a lot better than the TiVo".
> 
> ...


I am so +1 on this with the exception of selling my gear..... I have my old receivers stacked covering my cabling mess. They went from $1000 DVRs to cammo almost overnight.


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## henree (Sep 13, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> Having just gone through Movers Connection myself, my initial thought for Cap'n was to go ahead with what they're saying, let the installer run all the cables for the new boxes, refuse the new boxes before they're actually connected (never activated, doesn't trigger the two-year commitment) and connect the old receivers instead.
> 
> The only problem I saw with that is that, for me, the "replacement" receivers in my move were charged to a credit card (which they had to do for the equipment to be done in their system), then a credit back to my account to offset that charge. Worked out OK for me. One downside - in this situation where the new receivers would be refused, I could see the account credit being reversed right away and maybe not so "right away" on the credit card charge. A hassle, definitely, but the end result is the move, the desired receivers, and probably only a one-year commitment for the Movers Connection (I think that is the standard when no new receivers - or at least no new 'advanced technology' receivers are added at the time).
> 
> I feel bad that things went the way they did and couldn't be worked out. Good luck, Cap'n, with your future TV adventures.  Don't be a stranger!


Do Not Approach the Method that he is suggesting, if the tech runs all new wiring and sets up the dish and is there to put new receivers and you dont want those and instead you want your old receivers, then the tech would have just did an install for free, he would not get paid. Keep that in mind, i would be mad if i were the installer and you came out with this scam. That is unfair to the tech who is there to do your install and get paid, thats all, but if you go that way then you would have messed up the techs income.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

From another thread: The Captain has gone with FiOS....this thread can die quitely....


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

henree said:


> Do Not Approach the Method that he is suggesting, if the tech runs all new wiring and sets up the dish and is there to put new receivers and you dont want those and instead you want your old receivers, then the tech would have just did an install for free, he would not get paid. Keep that in mind, i would be mad if i were the installer and you came out with this scam. That is unfair to the tech who is there to do your install and get paid, thats all, but if you go that way then you would have messed up the techs income.


Does your company not know how to get the workorder changed? That's all you would have to do to get paid for installing the old receivers.

I do want to add that if you (the customer) want to keep your old boxes instead of getting the new ones, tell the technician before he gets started with the install. It can take a little time, sometimes more than an hour, for the workorder change to go through.


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## jackmacokc (Oct 10, 2006)

bonscott87 said:


> Ummm, why do you need them to hook up anything? All you need them to do at your new address is put up a new dish and any wiring. All your receivers are still active, just plug them in and go.


I agree...whats the big deal? Just move yourself..their "movers connection" is just a stupid way to extend your contract and get a "free" dish. Just buy a dish on ebay and be done with it....change your address....total cost $0.00.

Need wiring done? Find someone local to help you out or better yet do it yourself. I bought all the tools necessary for about $50, including a spool of RG-6...piece of cake..


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

jackmacokc said:


> I agree...whats the big deal? Just move yourself.. Just buy a dish on ebay and be done with it....change your address....total cost $0.00....piece of cake..


Take your dish with you & skip ebay...


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

Smart move, Captain. I currently have FiOS internet and I'm waiting for FiOS TV to be offered in my area. Once it is, I'll more than likely be jumping ship, along with my $125 monthly bill ($175 including NFL ST) as well. I totally agree with your thoughts on D*'s new receiver's (HR20, etc.) and I can't stand how bad of a product this receiver is. The scary part for D* is that I thought they were supposed to be retaining their platinum customers??? With the horrible hardware they are rolling out, that doesn't seem to be the case.


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## henree (Sep 13, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> Does your company not know how to get the workorder changed? That's all you would have to do to get paid for installing the old receivers.
> 
> I do want to add that if you (the customer) want to keep your old boxes instead of getting the new ones, tell the technician before he gets started with the install. It can take a little time, sometimes more than an hour, for the workorder change to go through.


Its more complicated then you think. Yes can you change work order yes, But not all the time .Even tough the custumer orders new receivers and at the end of the installation custumers swears he will cancel unless he gets the old receivers installed the custumer will still be classified as a Movers Connection, i dont believe there is way out of it.


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## crkeehn (Apr 23, 2002)

carl6 said:


> I think the two year committment comes with the movers connection. I do not understand at all why they won't reconnect the older receivers, or would charge you for doing so.
> 
> As the others said, good luck with your new service, and let us know how it is working for you once you have a little hands on time.
> 
> Carl


The Movers Connection requires a one year commitment, the consumer is also given the option of opting out of the commitment by paying $99. We just ordered the movers connection for our move to Raleigh and the Customer Rep was very upfront about the commitment and how to avoid it. They also provided a date and time that were very quick and convenient for us so our children won't have to go through TV withdrawal . :eek2:


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## TigersFanJJ (Feb 17, 2006)

henree said:


> Its more complicated then you think. Yes can you change work order yes, But not all the time .Even tough the custumer orders new receivers and at the end of the installation custumers swears he will cancel unless he gets the old receivers installed the custumer will still be classified as a Movers Connection, i dont believe there is way out of it.


I don't see where it is more complicated than I think. I've been doing this for years now, and have never had a problem getting a movers connect changed from tech bring X to customer has X.

One way for you to avoid the customer springing it on you about wanting their old receivers installed instead of the new ones, is to go over the workorder with them BEFORE you start the job. And tell them that you need to know NOW if anything on the workorder is wrong, so that you can get it corrected.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

tiger2005 said:


> Smart move, Captain. I currently have FiOS internet and I'm waiting for FiOS TV to be offered in my area. Once it is, I'll more than likely be jumping ship, along with my $125 monthly bill ($175 including NFL ST) as well. I totally agree with your thoughts on D*'s new receiver's (HR20, etc.) and I can't stand how bad of a product this receiver is. The scary part for D* is that I thought they were supposed to be retaining their platinum customers??? With the horrible hardware they are rolling out, that doesn't seem to be the case.


The HR20 is much better then any 8300HD or DCT3412 and 6412 i ever had


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## Grydlok (Mar 31, 2007)

TigersFanJJ said:


> I don't see where it is more complicated than I think. I've been doing this for years now, and have never had a problem getting a movers connect changed from tech bring X to customer has X.
> 
> One way for you to avoid the customer springing it on you about wanting their old receivers installed instead of the new ones, is to go over the workorder with them BEFORE you start the job. And tell them that you need to know NOW if anything on the workorder is wrong, so that you can get it corrected.


I can tell you it isn't that easy anymore. I had 2 people try that already to find out either take these new receivers or pay. You guys needs to stop stating assumptions as a fact. That is a gamble.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

samw said:


> Not be forced to sign a new contact which by the way a one month subscription at the Platinum level will fully recoup D*'s cost.


BWAHAHA

No less than $200 cost for a one-set install. I have no idea what you consider "platinum", but considering a 20% profit margin on programming, the "premiere" package would pay this off in 10 months. Add 3 more receivers and you practically double the cost

Just because you give a store $1 for a burger, does not mean the store owner is one dollar richer because of your purchase.


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## henree (Sep 13, 2006)

TigersFanJJ said:


> I don't see where it is more complicated than I think. I've been doing this for years now, and have never had a problem getting a movers connect changed from tech bring X to customer has X.
> 
> One way for you to avoid the customer springing it on you about wanting their old receivers installed instead of the new ones, is to go over the workorder with them BEFORE you start the job. And tell them that you need to know NOW if anything on the workorder is wrong, so that you can get it corrected.


Now, you must have not read JLucPicards message, it says to Do the installation as it is A new Install and after tech is about to install new boxes, the custumer is to flat out says no. so his intentions were deceiving from the beginning. But lately for Directv, it has been getting complicated with changing workorder. Trust me.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

henree said:


> Now, you must have not read JLucPicards message, it says to Do the installation as it is A new Install and after tech is about to install new boxes, the custumer is to flat out says no. so his intentions were deceiving from the beginning. But lately for Directv, it has been getting complicated with changing workorder. Trust me.


Not quite.

The OP indicated he was doing a Mover's Connection (not a new install necessarily). He already had an HR20, another receiver, and the two HD receivers he wanted to keep. D* was trying to force two new receivers on him in place of the two he wanted to maintain. The installation would have been identical except for putting the two new receivers in place of the two he already had (and preferred).

I understand there is trouble getting work orders changed, and had not considered that at the time I posted my original response. Yes, that may not be entirely fair to the installer, but I don't necessarily see it as any more deceiving or any worse than D* trying to say you cannot connect your receivers but instead MUST take these two we are forcing on you, along with an additional year's programming commitment (beyond the one-year that Mover's Connection entails already).

The work the installer would be doing on the actual install is the same either way.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Not to get side-tracked or anything, but isn't the policy of forcing you to take new receivers with a movers connection contrary to what they advertise on this? I've always seen the mover's connection as "give us a call before you move... leave your old dish... pack up your receivers and take them with you." That's always been my understanding of how the program works. The fact that they're forcing you to take new receivers (and the additional commitment that goes with them - although I understand that mover's connection puts a commitment on you as well) seems to run counter to what they advertise. Unless that's changed and I'm not aware of it. I know that they have newer mover's connection commercials that don't mention anything about taking your receivers with you, so the policy MAY have changed.

I just don't see the logic in all this. What difference does it make to DirecTV which receivers you use? I understand their desire to get everyone on the same architecture, but come on. Isn't this just a tad ridiculous? I can certainly understand the OP's anger at this. My understanding of the program was identical to his - and I would have made the same exact assumption that he did - and I would be just as torqued if I was told "sorry... you can't take that receiver with you... you have to take one of our new ones."


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## tiger2005 (Sep 23, 2006)

compnurd said:


> The HR20 is much better then any 8300HD or DCT3412 and 6412 i ever had


Maybe so, but the S3 TiVo is worlds above the HR20 in the feature category. If D* wants to truly give their customers the best experience it can, should it really aim to be 'better' than the 8300HD, etc. or should it aim to be better than the best on the market such as an S3 TiVo or a DISH ViP622? I would hope it would be the latter, but from what I've seen so far from the D* boxes that's not the case.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I think "everybody's mileage will vary" on these points.  

You got to love a free country.!pride


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## braven (Apr 9, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> I think "everybody's mileage will vary" on these points.
> 
> You got to love a free country.!pride


+1


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Something isn't adding up in my book here.

The OP is complaining about his comment being extended. He states that his buyout is $175. At 12.50/month that means he has 14 months left. So his extention is only 8 months.

Look at his avatar. I don't think for 1 second that all those ODUs, especially the 30 incher were installed by D*. Either the OP has installed them himself or has hired someone directly to do so. So that raises the question. Why go through the movers connect?

Look at the OPs post histroy. Nearly every chance he's gotten he's bashed the H20s and the HSP network. Again, if you don't care for the system, why use it?



Note: I'm sure this post looks like flame bait, thats not my intent, just some hard questions.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

Jhon69 said:


> Curious question was this Retention that told you this after you told them to cancel your service?.


I was on the phone for about 90 minutes w/retention and they even called me back the following day.

They did offer a 12-month $10/mo discount which would have effectively nullified the $120 they wanted to charge me to reconnect my E86's. They were also very apologetic but outside of service discounts and promotional packages, they were unable to offer anything significant, such as hook up ALL my current receivers and NO contract extention.

Apparently the contract extention is a mandatory component from which there can be no redress or petition. You're stuck with it.

As to the suggestion to just "do it myself", 20 years ago I would have done exactly that, perhaps even 10 years ago. However today I'm 61 years old and have a slight equilibrium problem causing me to occasionally lose my balance. Ladders and rooftops are no longer my forte'.

Where I moved to the TWC package is total digital, hence the PQ is excellent. They gave me three (3) of the SA "Explorer 3250 HD" receivers (no DVR - they offered but I declined). They also hooked up RoadRunner internet service and the TW tech even installed my Vonage system for me. They also re-wired the house, replacing the old (very-old) single copper braid coax with new RG6 Quad and ran a new drop out to the pedestal. They also buried the drop the same day.

NO CONTRACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the good news. The bad news is their customer support call center. It is best described as a horrendous multiplicity of intertwined menu trees, several of them with as many as 8 options before branching into another multi-level. Literally a nightmare to navigate! By actual timing, it takes TWO MINUTES just to listen to the prompts and drill down to the point where you can get a CSR on the line.... or at least get dropped into the right queue and sit there on hold.

The second bit of news I'm unsure if it's good or bad, but the local TWC operations and physical plant (all metro Houston, TX and suburbs) has just been sold to Comcast.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

jpl said:


> My understanding of the program was identical to his - and I would have made the same exact assumption that he did - and I would be just as torqued if I was told "sorry... you can't take that receiver with you... you have to take one of our new ones."


Precisely my point. I have two $500 Hughes E86 receivers, $1000 in total, that have just been relegated to the scrap heap.

As to the comment about my Avatar, in the first place the big dish is a full 1-meter 40-inch'er (not 30") which was professionally installed for us by AlllTech Communications.

The issue in its entirety, as I told the nice folks at retention, is the fact that they're wanting to CHARGE ME to reconnect my curent level of service or else force me to accept substandard equipment That's Bull$#!*


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

Bob Coxner said:


> You may want to read the LONG thread on avsforum about Time Warner and their set top box software. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830&highlight=sa8300
> 
> Good luck!


This thread is, as you say, about the SA8300, which is the DVR.

I did not opt for the DVR, choosing instead the SA 3250 HD (HD digital rcvr w/o DVR).

I also did not have the HR20. Please read my post carefully. My complaints are about the H20 (note, no "R").

Far too soon to make anything in the way of a final judgment; We've now had TWC for all of 1 week. However, so far, so good.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

autumnghost said:


> Hey Cap'N. Whatcha gonna do with all those dishes on the chimney, (especially the Winegard 30'')?


You mean the Winegard 40" ?

it all stayed w/the house. Anything "permanently attached" stays with the house when you sell it unless you specifically exclude it. We had to specifically exclude the new 40" Sony 2500 hanging on the wall of the master bedroom. However, the buyer asked me to leave the wall bracket, which of course I happily did, rather than repair the wall.


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## Cap'n Preshoot (Jul 16, 2006)

UPDATE:

We're about to come back, at least to satellite even if not back to D*. Our new home should be finished by the end of next month (Nov) and we are practically frothing at the mouth to get rid of cable (ComCrap). Their recent barrage of rate increases hit at a particularly bad time when many people were also having reception issues.

However, what SAT company to come back to is the current issue in question. D*'s recent equipment change and elimination of the built-in ATSC (OTA) digital tuner seems like a poor combination for us. We're close enough to multiple OTA transmitters that some damp clothesline dangled out the window would certainly suffice for an antenna.

We've also seen firsthand D*'s rendition of MPEG4 locals and quite frankly, we're just not favorably impressed. Bottom line, we need OTA and it needs to be offered as a L-I-L option as it was previously.

As long as you can still get the prior version of D* set top boxes I guess you're OK, but I've heard rumors they're soon to become unavailable.

Maybe time to look at E*


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Cap'n Preshoot;1230984 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> We're about to come back, at least to satellite even if not back to D*. Our new home should be finished by the end of next month (Nov) and we are practically frothing at the mouth to get rid of cable (ComCrap). There recent barrage of rate increases hit at a particularly bad time when many people were also having reception issues.
> 
> ...


The H20 (Non DVR) and the HR20 (DVR) now and always have built in OTA Tuners. Rumors of those boxes soon becoming unavailable are just that rumors. They will always be around.


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Cap'n Preshoot;1230984 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> We're about to come back, at least to satellite even if not back to D*.
> Maybe time to look at E*


Why the change from hating sat. and wanting cable to going back to Sat?


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## mishawaka (Sep 11, 2007)

i love these exit 'manifestos'


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

I wonder what would be said/done by D* if you made it clear that the OTA capability is a deal breaker to you. I know their standard line in past has been "we can't control which receiver you get", but wasn't that more a matter of HR20-100 versus HR20-700? If you insisted on an HR20 versus an HR21, I wonder what their response would be?


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## pecocus (Feb 13, 2006)

Cap'n Preshoot;1230984 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> We've also seen firsthand D*'s rendition of MPEG4 locals and quite frankly, we're just not favorably impressed. Bottom line, we need OTA and it needs to be offered as a L-I-L option as it was previously.
> 
> ...


For what it's worth... I just added a second HR20. Instead of ordering from D*, I just went to Costco and got it. It was cheaper than D* (at normal price, not what you might get from retention), it can be either a self-install or have D* come out and (to your point) it was an HR20-700. That would have your OTA capability.

I have to say though... while I have OTA hooked up, I find I'm rarely using it anymore. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, buy my locals are just fine from D*. I only use OTA for PBS.

Hope that helps.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

DCSholtis said:


> The H20 (Non DVR) and the HR20 (DVR) now and always have built in OTA Tuners. Rumors of those boxes soon becoming unavailable are just that rumors. They will always be around.


How sure of this are you? The D* web site makes no mention of ATSC tuners in the HD STB's anymore. IIRC someone posted that they say the H21 at BB with a $99 price and SolidSignals web site has it $99, the same price as the H20 was. D* on financial calls has been saying they will be able to reduce their cost of HD STB's by $50 for non-DVR and $100 for DVR's, IMHO this is how D*'s doing it, get rid of the ATSC electronics.

So no offense but the rumors of them staying around are just rumors IMHO.


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## chris0 (Jun 25, 2007)

Cap'n Preshoot;1230984 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> We're about to come back, at least to satellite even if not back to D*. Our new home should be finished by the end of next month (Nov) and we are practically frothing at the mouth to get rid of cable (ComCrap). Their recent barrage of rate increases hit at a particularly bad time when many people were also having reception issues.
> 
> ...


FWIW, I just did a comparison between my OTA of the race on ABC and the DirecTV MPEG-4 feed and the OTA is only slightly better. I can see a difference in clarity, but barely. Same thing with the 9er's game on FOX.
From what I've read here over the past few months, most of us have very high quality locals.

Try calling customer service and stress how important OTA is to you, see what they say.

On a side note, I was watching "Miracle Planet" on DHT and a new "How It's Made" on The Science Channel HD last night and the PQ was amazing.

I know you hate contracts but I think you should give D* another shot.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

RAD said:


> How sure of this are you? The D* web site makes no mention of ATSC tuners in the HD STB's anymore. IIRC someone posted that they say the H21 at BB with a $99 price and SolidSignals web site has it $99, the same price as the H20 was. D* on financial calls has been saying they will be able to reduce their cost of HD STB's by $50 for non-DVR and $100 for DVR's, IMHO this is how D*'s doing it, get rid of the ATSC electronics.
> 
> So no offense but the rumors of them staying around are just rumors IMHO.


Point taken but I do not see those receivers going anywhere in the near future. At least when there are subs that do not have MPEG4 locals as yet and can only get OTA, it would be foolish of D*, IMO to get rid of the H20 and HR20 models for that reason. But I guess you never know.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

Come back to D* all the HD channels will only cost $9.99 more at least for the rest of this year. Your E86 can receive HD OTA without a sat signal so you will have 2 receivers that will get the best possible signals probably with rabbit ears.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

RAD said:


> So no offense but the rumors of them staying around are just rumors IMHO.


Thank you!

OTA going away and OTA staying are both rumors at this point. But D* is de-emphasizing OTA by:

1. Talking people out of it
2. No longer offering OTA antennas
3. Newest boxes don't have OTA

It staying or going away are both speculation but those who think D* is dumping OTA sure have a few trends to bolster the argument.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

tonyd79 has the most correct answer. DIRECTV is de-emphasizing OTA, but it will not be gone altogether. The HR20 is still being made, the H20 is still shipping too. In locations where HD LILs are offered, it might be harder to find OTA tuners, but I really don't even think that is the case. 

Yes, the HR20s will eventually be replaced by something else. But something else is very likely to have OTA. (Or it really wouldn't be a replacement.) 

Without having HD LILs in all 210 DMAs, DIRECTV would be seriously shooting itself in the foot to ignore OTA. They had to have learned that Local channels are very important over the past years with their high growth being created by having locals. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Tom, will D* then be raising the price of the H20 from $99 or will both the H20 and H21 be sold for $99? What's going to determine what box a customer gets? I agree that D* would be shooting themselves in the foot big time if the disco'ed the H20/HR20 but corporations aren't known for being smart all the time (remember new Coke?). If they do keep both ATSC/non-ATSC boxes it would be nice to know what the criteria will be for deciding who gets what box.


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## mikeny (Aug 21, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Yes, the HR20s will eventually be replaced by something else. But something else is very likely to have OTA. (Or it really wouldn't be a replacement.)
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I hope you're right Tom, but DirecTV did basically replace the HR10 for all intents and purposes with the HR20 which I'm crazy about, however it comes without DLB. Not a big deal for me but it's important to others (like OTA). So they have cut off key features on replacement type products.

I hope your're right that there will be an OTA option for whatever their HD DVR is.

I hope they keep continuing to make it more of a moot point by adding HD LIL in all the markets; but they really need to include everything, not just the Big 4 Nets.


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## bt-rtp (Dec 30, 2005)

tiger2005 said:


> Maybe so, but the S3 TiVo is worlds above the HR20 in the feature category. If D* wants to truly give their customers the best experience it can, should it really aim to be 'better' than the 8300HD, etc. or should it aim to be better than the best on the market such as an S3 TiVo or a DISH ViP622? I would hope it would be the latter, but from what I've seen so far from the D* boxes that's not the case.


+1, on the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD boxen, they ROCK!

However, it will be a year or so before the cable companies, even just Comcast and Time Warner, have SDV fully deployed and with enough HD channels to be competitive with DirecTV. Old cable companies move slow.

Version Fios is also in a funky situation. They have to re-design their whole infrastructure. Bummer, it is fairly new....


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## CJTE (Sep 18, 2007)

lol.

There is an important reason to read... I didnt see the start date of this thread, so I made a reply based on the very first post...

Cap'n, do you not *own* those receivers? Therefore, do with them what you wish...
Get DTV to come out and do a free install... That includes those old receivers :biggrin:


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

bt-rtp said:


> +1, on the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD boxen, they ROCK!
> 
> However, it will be a year or so before the cable companies, even just Comcast and Time Warner, have SDV fully deployed and with enough HD channels to be competitive with DirecTV. Old cable companies move slow.
> 
> Version Fios is also in a funky situation. They have to re-design their whole infrastructure. Bummer, it is fairly new....


Unless I am mistaken, it is my understanding that cable will have to go to switched digital video to have enough bandwidth to offer even close to the number of HD channels that DIRECTV is currently offering. I also believe that making that change will mean the S3 Tivo will no longer work with those cable systems.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Smuuth said:


> Unless I am mistaken, it is my understanding that cable will have to go to switched digital video to have enough bandwidth to offer even close to the number of HD channels that DIRECTV is currently offering. I also believe that making that change will mean the S3 Tivo will no longer work with those cable systems.


I covered this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating. Cable outfits will be able to add a boatload of HD without having to go switched video. I still think that switched video is a necessary change, but it's more long term. I'll use an example to illustrate what I'm talking about. Take Comcast - around here Comcast carries around 70 analog channels. Analog takes up alot of bandwidth. Alot more than digital. From what I understand, the math works out as follows (for uncompressed channels):

1 QAM can hold:

- 1 analog channel
- 9+ digital sd channels
- 2 HD channels

Say Comcast moves all their analogs to digital (which they're starting to do - they've been offering a very basic STB dirt cheap for this purpose). Based on this math, that means that they free up 62 QAMs (70 freed up by getting rid of analogs, and they add 8 because they're putting those channels in digital). Based on these numbers that means that Comcast can add an additional 124 HD channels - uncompressed.

I also think that mpeg4 is the next reality for cable. When they do that they'll be able to carry a bunch more.

Yeah, switched video is a long-term change that needs to happen, but cable will be able to offer plenty of bandwidth by sticking with QAM. And for the record - no, I'm not a Comcast customer. I just used them as an example.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

bt-rtp said:


> Version Fios is also in a funky situation. They have to re-design their whole infrastructure. Bummer, it is fairly new....


Verizon does have some bandwidth issues, since they run QAM just like traditional cable. But they don't have to redesign their entire infrastructure to create alot of additional bandwidth. Here's what they're currently doing:

1) Upgrading all their cable offices to handle 103 QAMs. Most of their COs currently do, but there are a number of older ones that offer, I believe, 94. By getting them all up to 103 (which involves upgrading hardware at the COs - not cheap, but not a revamping of their network), they'll have room for another 15 - 20 HD channels.

2) Like other cable outfits (yes, fios is considered cable), they'll get rid of their analogs. They've already started, and they're supposed to wrap up by spring 2008. They currently carry 40 analog slots (locals). And since they duplicate their locals as both analog and digital, getting rid of those analogs will free up 40 QAMs, creating enough room for an additional 80 HD channels. Again, not undisruptive, but doesn't require much of a change at all. Literally this just involves flipping a switch.

3) Upgrade their system to handle the full suite of QAMs available - 135. That would add 32 QAMs, creating space for an additiona 64 HD channels. Will they do this? Not sure. This part IS pretty expensive, and there's reason to believe that they don't see the need to do this because of step #4, which is ...

4) IPTV. Verizon has already stated that they plan on going full IP in 3 years. They're already partially IP. And when they do, they'll have virtually unlimited bandwidth (this is where the power of the fiber really starts to shine).

I agree that Verizon was probably a bit shortsighted in baking these limitations into their system. To be honest, I think they got caught into too much of a traditional cable mentality (they brought in some old cable guys to get them into the business). I mean - analogs? Come on. Still, I think the thing that's causing them a problem - what DirecTV did. I really don't think they anticipated this many HD channels at this point in time. When they were planning their network, they probably figured that the current network would be sufficient to get them to IP. Then DirecTV went ahead and added all those HD channels, and all these other systems need to catch up...


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

jpl said:


> I covered this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating. Cable outfits will be able to add a boatload of HD without having to go switched video. I still think that switched video is a necessary change, but it's more long term. I'll use an example to illustrate what I'm talking about. Take Comcast - around here Comcast carries around 70 analog channels. Analog takes up alot of bandwidth. Alot more than digital. From what I understand, the math works out as follows (for uncompressed channels):
> 
> 1 QAM can hold:
> 
> ...


Not disputing what you are saying, but if they do move all their analog to digital, does that not make obsolete all those TVs with built-in cable tuners unless they are digital as well? I realize that switched video will also make those TVs obsolete as well, but I would think that the smarter business decision would be to make the change that will serve them for the longer term and that would logically be switched video. Was I incorrect in my statement that switched video will also render the S3 Tivo incompatible?


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## HDTVFreak07 (Sep 12, 2007)

AlbertZeroK said:


> Okay, this is what to do. Have them install 4 recievers. Tell them that if you can't reactivate the E86's you want something else. They should give you free cheap recievers.
> 
> Then get them to install everything. Replace the two free recievers they send you with your E86's and call in and re-activate them. (Actually, you never have to deactivate them from you account.)


Won't work. Then he'd be stuck with the two p.o.s. receivers he agreed to 2 year contract. IMHO, the H20 aren't really p.o.s., he must have had a bad batch.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

RAD said:


> How sure of this are you? The D* web site makes no mention of ATSC tuners in the HD STB's anymore. IIRC someone posted that they say the H21 at BB with a $99 price and SolidSignals web site has it $99, the same price as the H20 was. D* on financial calls has been saying they will be able to reduce their cost of HD STB's by $50 for non-DVR and $100 for DVR's, IMHO this is how D*'s doing it, get rid of the ATSC electronics.
> 
> So no offense but the rumors of them staying around are just rumors IMHO.


Sure they dont mention having OTA in the H-21 or hr-21, but there has been nothing announced on discontinuing the 20 model line. Ive only heard that the new ones will supplement the others.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

msmith198025 said:


> Sure they dont mention having OTA in the H-21 or hr-21, but there has been nothing announced on discontinuing the 20 model line. Ive only heard that the new ones will supplement the others.


I hope they do continue the 20 series, pulling them would be a VERY bad idea, especially the DVR version.


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## Matt9876 (Oct 11, 2007)

To each his own I recently retired my Hughes E86 unit and went with the H20 and slimline dish. I'm very happy with the swap and as far as a two year contract I hope to be with D* HD a lot longer then that.

Matt


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

RAD said:


> I hope they do continue the 20 series, pulling them would be a VERY bad idea, especially the DVR version.


Thats true. I can see the advantage of having both lines, but only at a price break for the customer. Otherwise why would the sub not want to at least have the option of OTA? Even if you never use it, if its the same price, why not have it.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

msmith198025 said:


> Thats true. I can see the advantage of having both lines, but only at a price break for the customer.


That's what has be worried, from what I've seen on the net, the H20/H21 and HR20/HR21 are being priced the same, no decrease on the 21 series and no increase on the 20 series. Now why wouldn't D* want to install 21's whenever they can to reduce their costs? If the 20's are staying what criteria needs to be matched for D* to install a 20 vs. a 21? I would just be nice to know what the rules will be.


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## msmith198025 (Jun 28, 2007)

RAD said:


> That's what has be worried, from what I've seen on the net, the H20/H21 and HR20/HR21 are being priced the same, no decrease on the 21 series and no increase on the 20 series. Now why wouldn't D* want to install 21's whenever they can to reduce their costs? If the 20's are staying what criteria needs to be matched for D* to install a 20 vs. a 21? I would just be nice to know what the rules will be.


I totally agree, there should be(even if its miniscule) some price cut passed on to the customer. Its odd that there isnt for sure. But i still stand by what ive said and heard, that the 20 model line is here for a while.


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

Smuuth said:


> Not disputing what you are saying, but if they do move all their analog to digital, does that not make obsolete all those TVs with built-in cable tuners unless they are digital as well? I realize that switched video will also make those TVs obsolete as well, but I would think that the smarter business decision would be to make the change that will serve them for the longer term and that would logically be switched video. Was I incorrect in my statement that switched video will also render the S3 Tivo incompatible?


I agree that they need to move to switched video, but I don't agree that that should be their first step. That change would require a major overhaul of their architecture. Getting rid of analogs doesn't. I agree - either way, tv's w/o a digital QAM tuner would need an stb, but as you said, no matter what they do, they end up at that place. Plus, getting rid of QAM, as you said, makes all those tivos obsolete. With moving everything to digital, you at least minimize that disruption for now. You won't eliminate it because many folks still have older gen tivos that only work with analog cable.

Also, by moving stuff to digital only, you avoid disrupting all those customers who are aleady digital. Can you imagine Comcast upgrading all 38 million of their customers in one fell swoop?


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

JLucPicard said:


> I wonder what would be said/done by D* if you made it clear that the OTA capability is a deal breaker to you. I know their standard line in past has been "we can't control which receiver you get", but wasn't that more a matter of HR20-100 versus HR20-700? If you insisted on an HR20 versus an HR21, I wonder what their response would be?


Actually, about 6 weeks ago I ordered my 2nd HR20, to be installed on Nov 6th. At the time of ordering, I insisted I be given the number of the install company, so I could confirm dates and equipment a week or two before. All this speculation about what receiver might be delivered started to concern me a little, so I called the install company today and they called the local installer (while I was on the phone with them) and verified that I would be receiving an HR20, not an HR21.

I made it clear to the installer that I ordered and would only accept an HR20, and that an HR21 would not be accepted. She wrote my requirement on the work order, and then called the actual tech who is doing the install and confirmed I would be getting the HR20. I also told her I had a 2nd DVR at the same location and would need 4 cables run from the new dish, instead of two. She said that would be no problem and also put it on the order.

When I expressed concern that some installers don't show up and that I had to give up a day's pay to stay home for the install, she said they don't have that problem, and gave me a number and told me if they don't show up inside the two-hour window they are scheduled, to call her and she would get them there, come hell or high water.

If they deliver on these commitments, I'll be a happy camper.

It makes no difference to me if they bring an HR20-700 or HR20-100. D* is free to do either. The HR21, however is functionally a completely different receiver (it has no OTA), and does not meet my requirements at that location in the house.

I"m hoping a lot of this speculation about D* considering the HR21 as a "legitimate replacement" on an HR20 order, is just that, speculation. I made my phone call to the installer just to make it more likely that I receive what I ordered, and have it installed on the day we scheduled the install.


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