# Any iMac gurus some backup/reinstall help?



## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Ok, long story short... I have an iMac that I do not have the passwords to use properly... so the easiest thing to do it seems to me is to backup the data so I don't lose any important files and then erase and re-install the operating system.

I have not done this in a LONG time with a Mac OS... so I'm wondering about any gotchas so I don't go from a partially usable computer to a complete unusable one!

Basically... any easy (doesn't have to be fast) and legally free way to copy/backup the content to an external drive... then suggestions on how to proceed with an erase/reinstall.

When I purchased Mavericks OSX I burned the contend to a DVD... but reading online it almost sounds like that doesn't matter as I can connect to the internet and download/reinstall. Is it really that easy?

I'm reading what sounds like:

1. Restart the computer.
2. Hold Command+R keys at the right time.
3. Erase/format the drive.
4. Choose Wifi connection (or connect via ethernet)
5. Reinstall OS.

Will I get to choose the OS in this scenario? OR is that when I would use my DVD that I hopefully burned correctly last year? I presume it would ask for my Apple ID at some point so I can configure for my account and not the one the computer is currently attached to.

IF that's the case... then maybe all I really need help with is making a copy of all the content.

I have a 1TB drive in the computer, but only about 350GB is used... and I have a 2TB external drive with plenty of free space. The plan is to dump the content to the external drive so I can look at leisurely to make sure I haven't lost any important files... but in the meantime I'm running into roadblocks doing things on the computer that prompt me for passwords that I don't know, hence the reason I need to ultimately wipe and start over.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or help!


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

If you can actually backup all the data and have any keys you need for software that might need reinstalled, then your plan should work.

As to the passwords, if you login to your iMac with an admin account and know that password, you can use the keychain tool to see any passwords that are save on that computer.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> If you can actually backup all the data and have any keys you need for software that might need reinstalled, then your plan should work.
> 
> As to the passwords, if you login to your iMac with an admin account and know that password, you can use the keychain tool to see any passwords that are save on that computer.


Yeah, I may not be able to install the software that is currently on it... but that's ok because I don't own that software anyway. For everything that I do own I either have the installation keys/info OR it was bought through the Mac App store and will be easy to restore that way.

The computer I'm working with here is one that I don't have admin access to so anything that requires the admin password is stuff I can't do. I just want to make sure I get important data and pictures and stuff off of there before I start over with the reconfig.

I'm mainly worried that there could be hidden files or folders that could be missed if I'm not careful. Was toying with the idea of using Disk Utility to make a DMG of the contents from the root, and then copying that file to the external drive. I wasn't sure if hidden files or folders would be captured properly in that scenario in a way that I could access later.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

isn't booting from CD with same OS allow you to change password(s) ? I recall I did that ...


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Your step 2 will work only if there is a recovery partition. Here is what I would do:
1 download superduper, easy to find, it's free for what we need.
2 run disk utility, and create a partition on the external disk big enough to hold the running partition. Give it a name different from the running one.
3 run superduper to copy the running partition to the external partition, this not only creates a full backup but a bootable one!
4 restart, hold down the option during the chime and you will see the old partition and the new external, select the external one and enter. System should boot from the external. You can verify it using about this Mac, also probably slower.
5 while booted from external download mavericks from the App Store, you can use the DVD if it's up to date (10.9.2).
6 run disk utility to format the internal drive.
7 install mavericks to the internal disk.

Now you have not only a new mavericks built from scratch but can still boot from the old one. Search the web to find out how to copy mail or bookmarks, etc. easy to do. Good luck.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't know if booting from a CD will let me change passwords... that's a good question, though.

I actually want to wipe and start with a clean Mavericks install for several reasons, not the least of which is that this was a computer used by someone else so I need to associate it with my Apple ID and get my applications on it... but there is also a lot of data that I want to preserve. Not config data, or email or anything... just data that I'll be able to open or view with my own installed applications.

The reason why I'm a little nervous is... while I think I know what I need to do to wipe and get a clean install... I'm less sure how to get all the data I want off of there and make sure it isn't locked to the old account. I've read online, for instance, about people using Time Machine backups only to find that once they install under a different Apple ID and username that they can't access the Time Machine backups.

It doesn't help that the person using this computer before was kind of disorganized... so whereas on my computer I could easily pick a few folders and know those were all the important unique data to preserve.. I could literally find an important file buried almost anywhere, including places where they normally shouldn't/wouldn't be!

I did go through the command + R reboot to access Disk Utility from there and make a DMG of the entire drive. That seemed to work. I have not checked it to see if I can access the files on my other computer yet because it is getting late. I'm hoping that worked and if I can access that data from my other computer then I should be safe to wipe and install Mavericks clean from there.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Still recommend using my method, you can't boot a dmg image which gives you complete access to the old stuff. As for changing the user that is simple. Pull up a file or better yet folder information using get info, then at the bottom click the lock to unlock, then add your new id as read write, MAKE SURE TO CLICK ENCLOSING FOLDERS. New you can drag from the old partition to the new and have full access to the files.

As for resetting, i am sure you saw different ways depending on what osx release you have, mavericks requires an Apple ID. Even if you have the id it still does not allow you to access the files on the new partition with a different id. You should put all the stuff you need into one folder, then use the method I just described to add your new id to all the enclosed files and folders, then boot the new partition and drag them to the new partition.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Thanks... I'm combing through the options but was not doing anything last night anyway, so that's why I let the DMG run... but I'll look into superduper today. I'm not in a hurry as such, so I want to do it right the first time.

I'll have to do a test run and make sure I can at least access the files from my other iMac before I wipe the one I'm clearing out... at least I have that and will know if it is accessible there I'm good to go with the reload.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm SuperDupering right now...

I realized, though, that my initial backup plan was flawed if I wanted this bootable copy... because the 2TB drive I was doing to backup to already has content on it... and it did not appear that you could do that unless you let it erase/clone to a drive.

Fortunately, though, I had a 320GB drive that I wasn't using... and I was able to delete enough stuff that I think will allow the clone to fit on that drive.

Whenever this completes (I'm guessing it will take a while) I will try to boot from it and see if that works. If that works, then I should be good to go and erase the primary drive and go for the reinstall.

Thanks again for all the help/thoughts... hopefully this goes as smoothly as it seems so far.

Slightly different interface, but feels a little like when I used to use Ghost to clone PC/Windows machines.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

For the 2tb drive, that's why I had step 2 above, I have always keep multiple bootable partitions around on external for 4 different macs in case one internal drive fails I can boot the external, copy to internal, then use the last time machine to bring it up to date. In 20 years no Mac has failed me but I am prepared! Post if you need help. Of course the 320 external was easier since no partitioning was needed.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah it was easier to do it that way since it all fit. I did test booting from it (boy is that slow) after it completed last night.

I'll continue on this weekend and see about wiping the computer since it looks like I'm at that stage now.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Next... Boot the external, run disk utility in the utilities folder, click the internal disk partition you want to format, then erase. No need for the long erase unless you want to check the disk but it will take hours. Of course you could overlap that with downloading mavericks from the App Store. This way you will have the latest updates, your DVD sounds old. When the installer starts make sure to point it to the formatted internal drive. It will restart the computer and run from the internal to continue the install. You can alway option restart to reboot the external when needed. Good luck.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I have a 10.9 Mavericks Recovery partition on the internal drive... When I'm ready for the wipe, I'm planning to boot to that and erase/install.

I have a 10.9 Mavericks DVD that I burned when I bought it... but since there have been updates since then, I'm figuring on doing the download option to skip some updating afterwards. Since I have a fully functional computer to use already, I don't have to hurry this along too much.

I still need to connect that cloned drive to my other computer and see if I can access the files there too. That gives me two ways of being confident that the data is safe before I wipe it.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Yes can use the recovery partition but.... IMHO I prefer to download from the App Store, mavericks is free so I don't know why you paid for it. The reason is if you have a network problem during the install you may have to start over and it's slow, but it works if you have a good connection. The App Store download will take a while but the install will go fast, 20-30 mins. The DVD install is slow, you can make a DVD from the download easily but I never used it since the App Store so stopped doing it. I keep the latest osx installers on an external just in case, but that's me, I have 5 externals.

As for booting the copied external on another computer that always works, as long as the computer can run that osx release, I do it all the time.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I think the recovery partition just has enough to get running and online to download the actual OS installation as well as a few tools that might be needed like Disk Utility.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah, the recovery partition just lets you do a handful of things... including erasing the drive (except for the recovery partition of course) and downloading the OS to install.

When I say "bought" Mavericks... of course this one was free... but I still say "bought" when I get free apps through the App Store. I had bought previous operating systems (Lion and Mountain Lion) that you did have to pay for... so I just remember them all the same, since the process was the same except for Mavericks not actually costing money.

Technically speaking, I thought you could pay for a USB thumb drive version or something direct from Apple. I'm pretty sure you could with other versions... but I never checked for Mavericks since I was fine with downloading.

The actual download last night was more than an hour, but I lost track since I was watching TV while I did it. The installation afterwards was much faster of course.

Now I seem to be sticking on file sharing between my two macs. Nothing I seem to do is resulting in either mac seeing the other and yet both are on the internet and both on the same internal subnet but they can't ping each other. It's weird. I'll have to play more with that later as it will be easier to share/move some files around that way.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Stewart, Apple offered the USB stick with Mountain Lion @$69 I think, or maybe it was Lion. It wasn't well received from all reports so I guess they decided not to do it anymore.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I thought I remembered something like that, and also that they stopped doing it... but wasn't 100% sure.

Meanwhile...

An ethernet cable directly between my two iMacs, and enabled file sharing works fine... but over the network does not. I suppose my router could be blocking something... but I don't have a gigabit router anyway, so it is probably better to connect the two iMacs directly anyway for speed of transfer.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

The best bet for connecting two Macs is Target Mode- use a firewire cable and restart one while holding down letter T.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

For certain things target mode is fine. But most Macs these days don't have firewire.

Stewart, what you describe pretty much says your router is doing it. That's one of the reasons I just got Airport products instead.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

lparsons21 said:


> For certain things target mode is fine. But most Macs these days don't have firewire.
> 
> Stewart, what you describe pretty much says your router is doing it. That's one of the reasons I just got Airport products instead.


True dat, so then one would use thunderbolt. It's way faster than any other linking method, and treats the target disk as if it were a separate HDD.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Stewart, I am puzzled, I thought you wanted to simply copy files from the external drive now that you have old and new, just plug it in and the old partition will show up on the desktop. But if you want to use two computers which is much more time consuming....

when you open the finder window each Mac should show up on each other's as shared. You can turn on screen sharing on one access the other computers screen and just drag files from one screen to the other. It's easier than setting up file sharing. OTOH, if you don't have the admin password to the old system it may be an issue. Setup the new partition to turn on screen sharing and access new from old. As for FireWire target mode, I use it all the time. If you have fw on both and restart the old osx holding the T key, the old will show up on the new.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Forgot to mention I have thunderbolt, the adapter works fine for fw works fine for target mode.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

My old computer is an early 2008 iMac... the "new" one is a late 2009 iMac... so no Thunderbolt. I don't have any Firewire devices, so no Firewire cables laying around either.

The new computer had stuff I wanted to preserve, hence the need to backup first.

I will need to access that old stuff from the external drive... but also, I will slowly be migrating stuff from my old computer over to the new computer... which is why I also needed to link the computers. Otherwise it would get old copying things from the old computer to a hard drive and then back again.

For a short time I will be working in parallel with both computers active... until I feel comfortable that the new one will let me access everything and that I can safely wipe my old computer. Then I don't know exactly what I will be doing with my old computer at that point... but that's a while down the road.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Ok got it, you should figure out why they won't talk on the network, I had many macs and routers (zyxel now) and they never had an issue. Copying using screen to screen is nice because it's easy and you can preview before copying,


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

I still think target mode is slick, even if you have to buy or borrow a firewire cable. Just make sure they both have FW 800 or both FW400....(easy tell: look at the ports).


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Laxguy said:


> I still think target mode is slick, even if you have to buy or borrow a firewire cable. Just make sure they both have FW 800 or both FW400....(easy tell: look at the ports).


when the FW400 port become incompatible with FW800 ?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

By the way... I forgot to say... it looks like P Smith was right that I probably could have reset the admin password by booting to the install disk... but since I wanted to wipe things anyway, it didn't matter... but it's worth noting for the future if I ever forget my own password or something.

FYI.. regarding Firewire... the 2008 iMac had Firewire 400 and 800 ports, whereas the 2009 iMac only has Firewire 800.

Since I don't have a cable it doesn't matter though... and the gigabit ethernet direct connection is fast and serving my purpose for sharing files between the two at the moment.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

> the 2009 iMac only has Firewire 800


when FW800 lost backward compatibility with FW400 ?

it would be violation of the standard and a device will lost right to name the port as "FW800"


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

OH, I wasn't answering the compatibility part... I would hope 800 is backwards compatible with 400. It would require a different cable or an adapter... though since both computers have an 800 port it stands to reason I would be smarter to just use that... but since it would require a cable I don't have, I wasn't going to bother with it.

Besides... am I missing something or wouldn't using the Gigabit-ethernet connection still be faster than Firewire 800?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Yes, you'd go via 800 if you were to do Firewire, and yes, the two are compatible, need only a bridging cable to go 400-800.
And it's been a long time since I compared those specs, but I believe FW is faster..


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

Gigabit is plenty fast, I use screen sharing every day and transfer large files in a couple of seconds.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

On the theoretical side 1Gb/s is faster than 800Mb/s... but I don't know the throughput/real-world sustained vs burst comparisons between the two.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Stewart Vernon said:


> On the theoretical side 1Gb/s is faster than 800Mb/s... but I don't know the throughput/real-world sustained vs burst comparisons between the two.


And there's the rub.... nominal speeds for all devices have to be looked at for the type of throughput they are handling. FW is splendid at handling large gobs of files, little overhead. USB 1,2, and 3 have a lot of overhead, and I don't know where 1Gig ethernet fits on that scale. More or less academic to us both, but for different reasons. I am now Thunderbolted, and I suppose USB 3, too, though I am not sure, and I don't care!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Firewire is isosynchronous type of bus (eg better suit online video transfer), it's hard to say if it will be better for file transfer than GbE

someone with both could just try copy one GB file to check ...

actually FW is much simple in HW for ad-hock - you'll need just one cable; usually network is more complicated - a switch, cabling to each target, often a router with Internet access ...


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

It's of academic interest to me at this point anyway. And Stewart is set up fine, anyway. 

The future seems to be Thunderbolt and USB 3, as well as Terrabit ethernet.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I don't get the push into fictional side ... "academic" ?

it's pure PRACTICAL interest what is easy to measure, just copy files in two different connections


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Academic interest does not mean fictional. 

Pretty much I have no interest in conducting tests nor googling something I won't be using.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Neither of my Macs have USB3 or Thunderbolt... I have actually only ever owned one Firewire device... and that was a video camera years ago. I think I had stopped using it before I got my oldest Mac so I can't say I ever connected it, and I don't know here that video camera is anymore.

The ethernet connection between the two Macs was the easiest thing possible for me... because all I needed was a standard ethernet cable. No need for a router or crossover cable or anything... just plug them up and they saw each other immediately.

The router was giving me issues when I was trying to go through that... so it was a blessing in disguise since connecting the Macs directly gave me the fastest connection possible for me with my current equipment and available cables.


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## mgavs (Jun 17, 2007)

All this about Mac to Mac wired is great if...... There in the same room for a onetime connection, my Macs are all over the house, laptop is wireless. Much more practical to connect via LAN. Sounds like you done, now you're ready for a next time if needed.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah, if I was dealing with a Mac in a different room, I would have been forced to figure out what was going on with my router that was preventing them from connecting via LAN.


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