# DirecTV Freezes Hiring, Postpones Capital Projects



## davemayo (Nov 17, 2005)

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081209/directv_economy.html?.v=2



> DirecTV Group Inc. said Tuesday that while it remains bullish about 2009, hiring will be frozen and all but the most critical capital projects will be suspended as visibility on the economy remains poor.


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## xIsamuTM (Jul 8, 2008)

saywhatnow? i've never heard of a call center not hiring. we churn emoployees here like butter.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

xIsamuTM said:


> saywhatnow? i've never heard of a call center not hiring. we churn emoployees here like butter.


outsource is not frozen, just Directv itself


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## kevinwmsn (Aug 19, 2006)

I wonder if this would cause a delay on getting D12 in orbit?


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

i hope this doesnt throw a monkey wrench into the fixing of the "channels i get" issue.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

The original article I saw said that D12 is on schedule but they are delaying the next satellite behind it. First I've seen mention of another one.

Here it is: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr...sion/news/e3i1a67de89e2702bf9c66c4acc6ee410cb

And the quote


> For example, the company will launch a new satellite, DirecTV 12, in 2009, bringing its national HD channel offering to 200, Rubin said. But another launch has been pushed back because of the uncertain economic outlook.


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## idigg (May 8, 2008)

At least they aren't canning employees!


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

dcowboy7 said:


> i hope this doesnt throw a monkey wrench into the fixing of the "channels i get" issue.


I do not understand what a place that raises simians (Monkey Ranch) has to do with the Channels i get issue :sure:


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## xIsamuTM (Jul 8, 2008)

El Oh El...


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## jleupen (Jul 27, 2007)

idigg said:


> At least they aren't canning employees!


I agree. Keeping staffing levels flat is a positive thing in this economy.

Frankly, if you work for a company that isn't laying people off, consider yourself lucky.


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## william8004 (Oct 6, 2006)

Things are like that all over.

In the great words of John Mclain. (not McCain) "Welcome to the party pal!"


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## smiddy (Apr 5, 2006)

Yikes, they are tightening their belts! The HDPC-20 and this too and the economy, yep, Chicken Little, the sky is falling! :lol:


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## dcowboy7 (May 23, 2008)

bonscott87 said:


> The original article I saw said that D12 is on schedule but they are delaying the next satellite behind it.


bummer, cause d14 (or whatever # it is cause we aint launchin a sat named d13) was gonna give us "up to 1,000 HD channels".

of course under directvs tongue 160 channels qualifies as "up to 1,000".


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

Yup, I wouldn't read anything into this, you're going to see a lot of this in this type of economy. The time to worry is when they start laying people off and eliminating jobs


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

smiddy said:


> Yikes, they are tightening their belts! The HDPC-20 and this too and the economy, yep, Chicken Little, the sky is falling! :lol:


The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling, A piece of it hit me on the head.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dcowboy7 said:


> bummer, cause d14 (or whatever # it is cause we aint launchin a sat named d13) was gonna give us "up to 1,000 HD channels".
> 
> of course under directvs tongue 160 channels qualifies as "up to 1,000".


Let's not go there ..


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## Incog-Neato (Apr 21, 2006)

They will REPLACE but not add.


xIsamuTM said:


> saywhatnow? i've never heard of a call center not hiring. we churn emoployees here like butter.


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## Steve615 (Feb 5, 2006)

william8004 said:


> Things are like that all over.
> 
> In the great words of John Mclain. (not McCain) "Welcome to the party pal!"


No soup for you.  :grin: 
That would be one *John McClane*,aka Bruce Willis. 

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001752/

http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi581042457/

http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi782369049/

The second link contains the "Welcome to the party,pal!" line in the trailer.


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## VaJim (Jul 27, 2006)

...so we're stuck with .029b for the near future.


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## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

My question is, does D* really want to raise prices in this economy?
And then again we had people on here a few months ago arguing that the economy was fine.....
I love it when I get to say, "I told you so"!


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## nc88keyz (Aug 12, 2007)

is dtivo II a critical project for directv. After all isnt that a luxury ? 

I guess all of directv is a luxury choice. 

Damned economy.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

idigg said:


> At least they aren't canning employees!


Yet :nono2:

Lets just hope the R&D budget does not get cut too badly.


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

I don't see mention of a rate hike in these articles. Should maybe that be removed from the headlines?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

VaJim said:


> ...so we're stuck with .029b for the near future.


How do you figure that?


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## Xalky (Nov 10, 2008)

jacksonm30354 said:


> I don't see mention of a rate hike in these articles. Should maybe that be removed from the headlines?


They know if they raise thier rates in this economy it's akin to financial suicide. People will just move to some other service or worse, go OTA. Let's face it when given the choice between watching 150 channels or paying the rent from an unemployment check, guess whats gonna go. They're gonna be lucky to keep thier subscriber base even with last years.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

dcowboy7 said:


> i hope this doesnt throw a monkey wrench into the fixing of the "channels i get" issue.


Here's hoping that's either...

A) a critical capital project

or

B) a smaller scale development effort (aka bug fix) that will get fixed "soon" regardless of large-scale development plans.


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## SeptemberBaby (Jul 8, 2005)

I hope this doesn't mean we won't get a 4th season of Friday Night Lights! 
:hair:


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Thaedron said:


> Here's hoping that's either...
> 
> A) a critical capital project
> 
> ...


Is the new tivo a critical capital project?


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Is the new tivo a critical capital project?


Yes, because it will remove much of the cost of their own inhouse development.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken S said:


> Yes, because it will remove much of the cost of their own inhouse development.


Since it will just be a premium product in addition to the in house DVR that isn't true. But if they decided to just can all in house DVRs completely and outsource it to Tivo then I'd agree with your statement.

By the way, there was another DirecTV presentation/conference call today and once again not one mention of the Tivo deal or anything about it. It's like it doesn't exist or isn't important. Frankly, if DirecTV feels their in house DVR is doing fine (by whatever scale they use) they may actually cancel the new Tivo unit if it's a big cost to them. But if the cost to them is minimal and mostly on Tivo then I'd say it will go forward, assuming Tivo isn't starting to suffer the same as every other company out there.

It will be interesting over the next 6 months or so to see what shakes out.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Since it will just be a premium product in addition to the in house DVR that isn't true. But if they decided to just can all in house DVRs completely and outsource it to Tivo then I'd agree with your statement.
> 
> By the way, there was another DirecTV presentation/conference call today and once again not one mention of the Tivo deal or anything about it. It's like it doesn't exist or isn't important. Frankly, if DirecTV feels their in house DVR is doing fine (by whatever scale they use) they may actually cancel the new Tivo unit if it's a big cost to them. But if the cost to them is minimal and mostly on Tivo then I'd say it will go forward, assuming Tivo isn't starting to suffer the same as every other company out there.
> 
> It will be interesting over the next 6 months or so to see what shakes out.


BonScott,

Here's my prediction. If Tivo releases a decent product then DirecTV will shutdown all internal development of DVRs. I understand you and others don't think that will happen...I think it will. DirecTV is not going to make a big deal of it now...they need the developers to keep the current line alive and supported. They serve as insurance against a Tivo failure and leverage against Tivo.

What do you think is a bigger cost...an inhouse development team for the HR2x series or Tivo making the box? Why not ask the HDPC-20 developers where DirecTV made their cuts. Direc2PC was developed by a 3rd party (client side). I think that's their direction.

If I was working in the HR2x developer group I'd be spending a little time making sure my resume was up to date and in circulation.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

SeptemberBaby said:


> I hope this doesn't mean we won't get a 4th season of Friday Night Lights!
> :hair:


They made a big deal about Friday Night Lights in the investor presentation today...but like every other TV show whether it survives depends a lot on how it does in the ratings on NBC come January. If the numbers are dismal, Coach Taylor may be pumping gas at the Dillon Gas 'n Go.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Ken S said:


> BonScott,
> 
> Here's my prediction. If Tivo releases a decent product then DirecTV will shutdown all internal development of DVRs. I understand you and others don't think that will happen...I think it will. DirecTV is not going to make a big deal of it now...they need the developers to keep the current line alive and supported. They serve as insurance against a Tivo failure and leverage against Tivo.
> 
> ...


Me thinks you're smoking something here .. I know you've predicted this before and will predict it again .. Just don't take that bet to Vegas.


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

Again, where did y'all see it stated there will be a price increase? The headline says they plan a price increase, however, I seem to have missed where they said this.

I don't think the dbstalk headline should say they plan a price increase if it wasn't mentioned by the directv press release. It's misleading.

If it was mentioned and I overlooked it, I stand corrected.


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## llarch (Aug 19, 2006)

jacksonm30354 said:


> Again, where did y'all see it stated there will be a price increase? The headline says they plan a price increase, however, I seem to have missed where they said this.
> 
> I don't think the dbstalk headline should say they plan a price increase if it wasn't mentioned by the directv press release. It's misleading.
> 
> If it was mentioned and I overlooked it, I stand corrected.


Here you go;

"The nation's largest satellite TV provider also has beefed up some promotions and plans to raise rates for next year."


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

jacksonm30354 said:


> Again, where did y'all see it stated there will be a price increase? The headline says they plan a price increase, however, I seem to have missed where they said this.
> 
> I don't think the dbstalk headline should say they plan a price increase if it wasn't mentioned by the directv press release. It's misleading.
> 
> If it was mentioned and I overlooked it, I stand corrected.


DirecTV freezes hiring, postpones capital projects:


> DirecTV Group Inc. said Tuesday that while it remains bullish about 2009, hiring will be frozen and all but the most critical capital projects will be suspended as visibility on the economy remains poor.
> 
> *The nation's largest satellite TV provider also has beefed up some promotions and plans to raise rates for next year.*
> 
> ...


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

2009 will be an interesting shake-out year.


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## jacksonm30354 (Mar 29, 2007)

Sorry 'bout that folks. I guess I subliminally didn't want to see it, so I didn't


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

bonscott87 said:


> The original article I saw said that D12 is on schedule but they are delaying the next satellite behind it. First I've seen mention of another one.


I'm not convinced that they are delaying D13 because of the economy. If you recall Tibber's thread on the latest in the fleet, D13's license was withdrawn because they were concerned about interference.

I'm guessing that they still need a placeholder satellite at 110W or they will lose the slot forever. Then again, I'm not sure they can keep either 110W or 119W without some PI channels there.


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## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> Is the new tivo a critical capital project?


I thought the new Tivo was being developed by Tivo not DirecTV.


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## John W (Dec 20, 2005)

curt8403 said:


> The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling, A piece of it hit me on the head.


An ACORN? Hmmmmm.....


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

One can pretty much assume asmall rate increase every year, so that part is no real surprise.

Actually, I think recent developments make it more likely that DirecTV will not abandon its own DVR platform and go totally with TiVo. There would have to be doubts in the minds of DirecTV executives as to tying your whole DVR development to an outside company with the economy as it is.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Me thinks you're smoking something here .. I know you've predicted this before and will predict it again .. Just don't take that bet to Vegas.


I'd have to do better than your bet against there ever being another DirecTivo again though...wouldn't I?


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## speedcouch (Jun 23, 2004)

paulman182 said:


> One can pretty much assume asmall rate increase every year, so that part is no real surprise.


I'm sorry, but I don't accept that as easily as some do. From when I signed up with Direct in 1995, there was only one increase in like 1997 when they acquired USSC. Then nothing for many years. Now for the last 3-4 years (probably when it was acquired by News Corps), we've had increases EVERY single year. Jeesh! This is one reason I left cable. Now Direct has turned into cable. I know News Corps is not the primary owner anymore, but their policies obviously stuck around. 

Cheryl


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

Ken S said:


> BonScott,
> 
> Here's my prediction. If Tivo releases a decent product then DirecTV will shutdown all internal development of DVRs. I understand you and others don't think that will happen...I think it will. DirecTV is not going to make a big deal of it now...they need the developers to keep the current line alive and supported. They serve as insurance against a Tivo failure and leverage against Tivo.
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure about this theory, Directv got burned by Tivo once, I think they would be foolish to dump all of their eggs into the Tivo basket. i think it would make good business sense to continue development of the HR2x's in at least some capacity. That's not to say they will not cut back development activities somewhat but I can't see them cutting it out all together.


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## TheRatPatrol (Oct 1, 2003)

harsh said:


> I'm not convinced that they are delaying D13 because of the economy. If you recall Tibber's thread on the latest in the fleet, D13's license was withdrawn because they were concerned about interference.
> 
> I'm guessing that they still need a placeholder satellite at 110W or they will lose the slot forever. Then again, I'm not sure they can keep either 110W or 119W without some PI channels there.


Why would they put new satellites at 110/119 when the newer LNB's can only get 99/101/103?


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## tunce (Jan 19, 2006)

They raise my rates I AM GONE! Time Warner Cable is not the greatest but at least I can get ALL my local HD channels and bundle it with there internet service (which I get now). 

I am only with Directv because of there channel offerings over anyone else in my area but if they raise the rates that I am already paying more then anyone else. It comes to the point of just wasting money that could be spent on FOOD, MORTGAGE, ETC.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

harsh said:


> I'm not convinced that they are delaying D13 because of the economy. If you recall Tibber's thread on the latest in the fleet, D13's license was withdrawn because they were concerned about interference.
> 
> I'm guessing that they still need a placeholder satellite at 110W or they will lose the slot forever. Then again, I'm not sure they can keep either 110W or 119W without some PI channels there.


Here's the exact quote: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1914812&postcount=302


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## SledDog (May 6, 2007)

If they do raise the rates, I'm going to downgrade my programing.. Only so much money to go around...


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## fetzervalve (Dec 26, 2007)

bnglbill said:


> .... Directv got burned by Tivo once,....


Did I miss something, what did TiVo do to DirecTv? I kinda had the impression that it was TiVo that got hung last time... Educate me.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

SledDog said:


> If they do raise the rates, I'm going to downgrade my programing.. Only so much money to go around...


Me too. "_You mess with the dough, you got to go."_ -Undercover Brother


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

theratpatrol said:


> Why would they put new satellites at 110/119 when the newer LNB's can only get 99/101/103?


Because three slots aren't enough?

They can't depend on using non-US slots any more and if they aren't making substantial progress in converting _everyone_ to MPEG4, they need bandwidth.


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## MalibuRacing (Mar 2, 2007)

SledDog said:


> If they do raise the rates, I'm going to downgrade my programing.. Only so much money to go around...


I agree.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

frederic1943 said:


> I thought the new Tivo was being developed by Tivo not DirecTV.


One can only hope.

Don't assume that this development project won't require some significant investment from DIRECTV. Any changes to the guide stream that TiVo requires will need to be done by DIRECTV in a way that is compatible with the current devices.

Helping TiVo figure out how to do what DIRECTV has been unable to do with their own design is going to require some DIRECTV resources too.


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## bnglbill (Nov 29, 2006)

fetzervalve said:


> Did I miss something, what did TiVo do to DirecTv? I kinda had the impression that it was TiVo that got hung last time... Educate me.


I guess I didn't quite word that correctly, I just meant that the partnership didn't quite work out before, I didn't really think about how I worded it.


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## Piratefan98 (Mar 11, 2008)

SledDog said:


> If they do raise the rates, I'm going to downgrade my programing.. Only so much money to go around...


I've long thought that a rate increase would be coming in early 2009. I also think there may be some quickening in the glacial pace of new National HD rollouts as the rate increase gets nearer.

Basically, I don't think the company wanted to shell out extra $$ for more HD without having some extra income to offset those costs. They probably could have delivered more National HD in the past few months, but I'm sure they didn't want two price increases in the same calendar year. So .... as 2009 approaches, I think we can expect some new National HD and some inflated bills.

Jeff


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

harsh said:


> One can only hope.
> 
> Don't assume that this development project won't require some significant investment from DIRECTV. Any changes to the guide stream that TiVo requires will need to be done by DIRECTV in a way that is compatible with the current devices.
> 
> Helping TiVo figure out how to do what DIRECTV has been unable to do with their own design is going to require some DIRECTV resources too.





Piratefan98 said:


> I've long thought that a rate increase would be coming in early 2009. I also think there may be some quickening in the glacial pace of new National HD rollouts as the rate increase gets nearer.
> 
> Basically, I don't think the company wanted to shell out extra $$ for more HD without having some extra income to offset those costs. They probably could have delivered more National HD in the past few months, but I'm sure they didn't want two price increases in the same calendar year. So .... as 2009 approaches, I think we can expect some new National HD and some inflated bills.
> 
> Jeff


First of all this is not the right thread for discussion of future TiVo-based projects.

Second, there have been rate increases pretty much every year.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

VaJim said:


> ...so we're stuck with .029b for the near future.


Don't count on it.


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## goober22 (Sep 8, 2004)

Looks like Nascar Hotpass is gone next year as well. Possibly some "less expensive to produce" replacement will return but the production and talent as we knew it is over.



> No 'Hot Pass' for DirecTV customers next year
> Wednesday, Dec. 10, 2008
> 
> DirecTV will not continue its exclusive NASCAR "Hot Pass" pay-per-view package next season, The Observer and ThatsRacin.com have learned.
> ...


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

tunce said:


> They raise my rates I AM GONE! Time Warner Cable is not the greatest but at least I can get ALL my local HD channels and bundle it with there internet service (which I get now).
> 
> I am only with Directv because of there channel offerings over anyone else in my area but if they raise the rates that I am already paying more then anyone else. It comes to the point of just wasting money that could be spent on FOOD, MORTGAGE, ETC.


Well, I guess you're gone then. Both DirecTV and Dish have raised their rates every year for quite some time now, 5 years I think. Cable does as well, raises it more and more often (sometimes twice a year). That's why I'm still with DirecTV. Cheaper and more channels. If that's not the case for you, go where it's cheaper. Nothing wrong with that.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken S said:


> BonScott,
> 
> Here's my prediction. If Tivo releases a decent product then DirecTV will shutdown all internal development of DVRs. I understand you and others don't think that will happen...I think it will. DirecTV is not going to make a big deal of it now...they need the developers to keep the current line alive and supported. They serve as insurance against a Tivo failure and leverage against Tivo.


Sure I think it could happen. Just depends if DirecTV wants to put all their eggs in a basket that always seems to be on the edge of going under. Eventually Tivo will need to post some profits...

And I'm sure DirecTV is putting up some big money for this. It's certainly not a charity project on DirecTV's part. DirecTV like any other company is all about the bottom line. If they predict the bottom line is better by going all Tivo then they will do it. Simple as that. If they feel they are doing just fine with their own product and Tivo is an expense they do not want to incur then they won't do the Tivo product. It all comes down to money in the end.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, that explains why we can't get The Travel Channel in HD!!!

Directv doesn't want to pay for it, but Dish did and they don't seem to have as many resources as Directv. Hard to believe.


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## VaJim (Jul 27, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Don't count on it.


..good....34 days and counting.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Me thinks you're smoking something here .. I know you've predicted this before and will predict it again .. Just don't take that bet to Vegas.


I second that.

I don't know if the new DirecTiVo project is one of the most critical capital projects, but if I understand it correctly, TiVo has always said the benefit of their deals with DirecTV and cable is TiVo does not inccur any capital expenses, the hardware are manufactured by the other guys and heavily subsidized by the other guys to their viewers too, TiVo only collects license fees, of course TiVo needs to put up a development team to work on the hardware and software with the other guys but that is far from building a box on their own then having to carry the high subscriber acquisition cost.

In another word the TiVo project has always been a capital project for DirecTV, not for TiVo.

And the fact that DirecTV had failed to even mention the new TiVo project in their last several calls since the initial project news release, may be viewed as a sign it could just be one of such projects on the block for a while already, only the chopping action is happening now.


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

theratpatrol said:


> Why would they put new satellites at 110/119 when the newer LNB's can only get 99/101/103?





harsh said:


> Because three slots aren't enough?
> 
> They can't depend on using non-US slots any more and if they aren't making substantial progress in converting _everyone_ to MPEG4, they need bandwidth.


Take a look at this Feb 28, 2008 Investor Day slide show, slide #32:









That would suggest that they are indeed focusing on just those 3 orbital slots.

Also another interesting slide in that same presentation (#40):









That one speaks for itself. Of course, this slide show is 10 months old, so things may have changed.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Personally.....I just don't see the hoopla around all this.

If DirecTV is doing some cost containment maneuvers right now based on the economic situation...that would seem to be a smart business move on their part.

It's important to note that unlike many other companies, they are not scaling back...rather...just holding some thing tight where they are.

As stated elsewhere, they continue to roll out more HD LILs (as planned), perhaps still some more HD channels before the D12 sat goes up (which is still on the radar to be launched).....so other than the freexe on hiring and the HDPC project freeze....this seems much ado about nothing.

To me, this seems like common (business) sense at this time.

If I was a stockholder (which I am not).....this is something I would demand to keep their profitability from tanking.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

On the other hand, the DirecTV in-house DVR hardware development was completed a long time ago, and the HRxx DVRs have been in mass production for so long to the point that DirecTV can now offer them for free rather charge a upfront fee.

And the most telling is thier current on-going DVR improvement process, it is mostly conducted through a *free* testing program called the CE program, through no one other than DBSTalk.com as the main test bed. One cannot find another less "critical capital" project than this one.

As long as DBSTalk does not get the idea of wanting to charge DirecTV arm and leg to do the CE program, therefore turning it into one of the "most critical capital projects", I think we are safe


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## rudeney (May 28, 2007)

VaJim said:


> ...so we're stuck with .029b for the near future.


From an accounting perspective, it is possible to capitalize software development, but likely not in this case since D*'s business and revenue model is not based on selling "software". My guess is that development for features and functionality of the IRD's will continue as it has. After all, much of what they are in software development is doing is adding value to the products. This in turn can be used to generate new revenue (1080P PPV's, Game Lounge, etc.)


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

Kheldar said:


> Take a look at this Feb 28, 2008 Investor Day slide show, slide #32:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


full home dvr is likely as the last software update added some parts of what is needed / can be used.


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## JLucPicard (Apr 27, 2004)

No doubt that if they do raise their rates (which, if memory serves, they've done every March 1st for several years now), they will lose some people - that will happen with rate increases pretty much anywhere.

DirecTV has always focused their business on "higher end" customers, so I'm guessing that a rate increase of a couple of dollars a month isn't going to have a huge impact on their churn.

I'm just gonna hang on and see what happens and unless the rate increase is totally silly, I'll be sticking around - this is the best option for me and I know that cable isn't going to DROP their rates!


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

tunce said:


> They raise my rates I AM GONE! Time Warner Cable is not the greatest but at least I can get ALL my local HD channels and bundle it with there internet service (which I get now).
> 
> I am only with Directv because of there channel offerings over anyone else in my area but if they raise the rates that I am already paying more then anyone else. It comes to the point of just wasting money that could be spent on FOOD, MORTGAGE, ETC.


Tunce,

Then you're gone because they will be raising the rates about $3/package (3% - 5%) again in early 2009. It would be a shock if they didn't. I understand what you're talking about and it appears you have your priorities set correctly.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

JoeTheDragon said:


> full home dvr is likely as the last software update added some parts of what is needed / can be used.


Actually the "whole home HD DVR" was supposed to be a brand new server box that can support multiple client boxes. And this one might just be one of the capital projects that is on the chopping block.

That may be a good news, without that new box, DirecTV will have to be more focused on doing MRV on their existing hardware, which they are doing right now in the CE, rather wait till the end of 09'/beginning of 10' as that slide showed a many few months ago.

Things seem to point to the same direction.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bnglbill said:


> I guess I didn't quite word that correctly, I just meant that the partnership didn't quite work out before, I didn't really think about how I worded it.


Different ownership group in place now. The one that got rid of Tivo had a vested interest in another company that developed DVRs.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Sure I think it could happen. Just depends if DirecTV wants to put all their eggs in a basket that always seems to be on the edge of going under. Eventually Tivo will need to post some profits...
> 
> And I'm sure DirecTV is putting up some big money for this. It's certainly not a charity project on DirecTV's part. DirecTV like any other company is all about the bottom line. If they predict the bottom line is better by going all Tivo then they will do it. Simple as that. If they feel they are doing just fine with their own product and Tivo is an expense they do not want to incur then they won't do the Tivo product. It all comes down to money in the end.


I agree with you...DirecTV is all about maximizing profits. BTW, Tivo did record a profitable quarter last time around...although I doubt Dish will be cutting them a check of that size every quarter.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> I second that.
> 
> I don't know if the new DirecTiVo project is one of the most critical capital projects, but if I understand it correctly, TiVo has always said the benefit of their deals with DirecTV and cable is TiVo does not inccur any capital expenses, the hardware are manufactured by the other guys and heavily subsidized by the other guys to their viewers too, TiVo only collects license fees, of course TiVo needs to put up a development team to work on the hardware and software with the other guys but that is far from building a box on their own then having to carry the high subscriber acquisition cost.
> 
> ...


Yes, and the cost of a Tivo box is probably about the same as the cost of an HR2x box...so those capital expenses don't matter...what does matter is whether DirecTV is paying for the development group or Tivo is. If DirecTV is they get to keep the whole DVR fee...if not....they split it somehow with Tivo.

So...is it cheaper to have Tivo handle the development and pay them a monthly fee or cheaper to do the development in house and pay those salaries?

Then you need to couple the costs of supporting the HR2x series vs the Tivo series. There have been a few occasions in the past month where their internal development has caused some pretty serious customer support incidents. That has gotten to the point where the CEO is talking about making their boxes more reliable in financial presentations.

Many times in business you look at your company and list the core strengths of competencies...you then look at the other projects that fall outside of those areas and decide on whether it would make better financial sense to have someone else do those items.

My believe is that Tivo has the opportunity to win back that business. It's not guaranteed by any means...they have to deliver and they have to deliver a quality product...but if they do...you can start dusting off the museum shelves for the HR2x series.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

rudeney said:


> From an accounting perspective, it is possible to capitalize software development, but likely not in this case since D*'s business and revenue model is not based on selling "software".


You don't need to be in the business of selling software in order to capitalize the development costs of your software. Clients that I have worked with regularly capitalize their large development efforts regardless if they are for internal systems, or client-facing applications.


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## Thaedron (Jun 29, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> Actually the "whole home HD DVR" was supposed to be a brand new server box that can support multiple client boxes. And this one might just be one of the capital projects that is on the chopping block.


Interestingly is that there are no 'clients' depicted in the slide that shows the whole home DVR...??? Just the one unit. No more HD Basic, no more regular HD DVR.


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## dreadlk (Sep 18, 2007)

Lets face facts, Directv is going to suffer the same pains as everyone else, there income is diving and they are going to cut back but if they raise the subscription prices they will be making a huge mistake.

* One of the things that people are not considering is that the amount of TV stations that we currently have is going to Dwindle and its going to happen fairly fast!* Advertising revenue for Stations is falling like a roller coaster, just taking the Big 3 out of the picture is crippling many of the stations and that does not include the slashed budgets by Circuit City and all the other retailers. Right now there are just way to many stations, some will fall.

If Directv raises there prices myself and many other people will lower our packages and if Directv decides to limit package selection or play around with the packages in such a manor that you need the best pkg to get the channels you want, I suspect many people will start looking for other providers.

A Bad Economy and rising TV prices are a recipe for Piracy, I hope that Directv considers this before giving a bigger opening to that same crap that has been wrecking it for everyone.


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Ken S said:


> ...Many times in business you look at your company and list the core strengths of competencies...you then look at the other projects that fall outside of those areas and decide on whether it would make better financial sense to have someone else do those items...


Except you only talked the talk not walked the walk.

"The other project" DirecTV can look at is the DirecTiVo project of its own that had fall completely flat on its face, so much so that DirecTV has been dropping DirecTiVo accounts like flies, and replacing them with their own DVRs.

Look I am certainly not saying this new DirecTiVo project is dead, but there seems to be a lot of wishful thinking on your part.

Just look at the facts for now, how fast DirecTV is dropping DirecTiVo accounts, the fact they never even mentioned a word of TiVo since the first press release about the new project, and still is not mentioning it.

Now they are saying some of the capital projects will be cut. At a very minimum, you need to point out some facts about DirecTV abandoning the CE program, and establishing some kind of groundwork for the joint development of the new TiVo project.

Unfortunately all facts point to the opposite direction.


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

dreadlk said:


> A Bad Economy and rising TV prices are a recipe for Piracy, I hope that Directv considers this before giving a bigger opening to that same crap that has been wrecking it for everyone.


That's actually a good point. You could potentially have 5-10% of the current channels fold practically over night. IE Planet Green, ION, Outdoor, Chiller, and a slew of others. Rough raising prices when you actually shrink your channels. Only time will tell. When advertising dries up, channels disapear.


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## thxultra (Feb 1, 2005)

I for one am rate hiked out. If direc tv wants to keep my business they will not raise my rates next year with this economy. I can think of many better ways to spend the $95 a month I already give them. With HDTV over the air works out just fine for what i really like to watch so if they raise my rates I may have to just let them know thanks but no thanks and get a tivo box with lifetime subscription and good old free over the air tv


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

Thaedron said:


> Interestingly is that there are no 'clients' depicted in the slide that shows the whole home DVR...??? Just the one unit. No more HD Basic, no more regular HD DVR.


And I am saying if I have to pick from the pile, that "whole home HD DVR" is the first on the chopping block because the R&D cost of it will be the highest, never mind the high cost of manufacturing such a brand new complex box.

Next comes the new DirecTiVo box, no matter how some wants to justify it, R&D on the new hardware alone and putting new assembly lines in to manufacture a brand new piece of HD DVR will be a major cost item DirecTV does not even need to compete with the other providers.

Currently there is no major company offering a meaningful TiVo product. Comcast's TiVo is almost a goner at this point, Cablevision was just cleared of the legal obstacles of their new centralized DVR plan, and can deploy it quickly. DISH is still using its own DVRs without the court enforcing any shut down.

Did I mention DirecTV is dropping their DirecTiVo accounts like flies?


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Ken S said:


> Tivo did record a profitable quarter last time around...


Only thanks to a one-time court battle payment from Dish...if not...they would have (yet again) been in the red.

If people are whining now about simply keeping things in check without any loss in products or services...what the heck are the whiners gonna do when the real economic impact on *real issues *hit next year....

There's always somebody unhappy about something.

Next year, there will be *alot* of people unhappy about *alot* of things much bigger than their TV services (10+ Million unemployed!). In the big scheme of things, having a few development projects postponed or changed will seem miniscule in comparison.

Perhaps we need some *perspective* here folks...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Only thanks to a one-time court battle payment from Dish...if not...they would have (yet again) been in the red.


Really? I guess I didn't mention that in my post...how did I miss stating that. Oh, wait, I did you just cut that part of my post out. Must have been accidental?

Here's my full sentence:

BTW, Tivo did record a profitable quarter last time around...although I doubt Dish will be cutting them a check of that size every quarter.

Also, I'm not sure how the rest of your rant applies to my post. I'm not at all upset about DirecTV cutting any project. I also expect they'll raise their rates. On the other side, I've found that it is becoming easier and easier to live without DirecTV's content with the plethora of options becoming available through services like NetFlix, Hulu, You Tube, the OTA networks and their online sites and services like MLB.com, etc. Do they match up exactly...no...not yet...but it's getting pretty close.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

thxultra said:


> I for one am rate hiked out. If direc tv wants to keep my business they will not raise my rates next year with this economy. I can think of many better ways to spend the $95 a month I already give them. With HDTV over the air works out just fine for what i really like to watch so if they raise my rates I may have to just let them know thanks but no thanks and get a tivo box with lifetime subscription and good old free over the air tv


ding ding ding, alarm bells going off Ding ding ding.

Tivo no longer offers lifetime service.

good luck with the ota and feb when the tivo tuners go down


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

curt8403 said:


> ding ding ding, alarm bells going off Ding ding ding.
> 
> Tivo no longer offers lifetime service.
> 
> good luck with the ota and feb when the tivo tuners go down


TiVo doesn't offer lifetime service? Really?  
Someone forgot to tell Tivo. 

TiVo Service Monthly and Prepaid Pricing Plans:


> Product Lifetime service
> One payment lasts the life of your DVR! $399.00





> Product Lifetime service
> 
> * Includes a "Product Lifetime subscription" to the TiVo service which covers the life of the TiVo DVR you buy - not the life of the subscriber. The Product Lifetime subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR in case of ownership transfer.
> * Money Back Guarantee applies only to initial activations if canceled within 30 days and DVR is returned for a full refund.
> ...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Ken S said:


> Really? I guess I didn't mention that in my post...how did I miss stating that. Oh, wait, I did you just cut that part of my post out. Must have been accidental?


It was....I didn't even notice it.  


> Also, I'm not sure how the rest of your rant applies to my post.


First of all....why is *your* post just a post and *some else's *a rant.   

In any case...if you *read* my post...it refers to the collective issue of complaint by mnay posters - it's not at all specific to your comment.

It addresses the *general topic *of perspective.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It was....I didn't even notice it.
> 
> First of all....why is *your* post just a post and *some else's *a rant.
> 
> In any case...if you *read* my post...it refers to the collective issue of complaint by mnay posters - it's not at all specific to your comment.


Because I termed it a post and your's a rant. The post you partially quoted was too short to be a rant as defined by the Ken S Online Dictionary 

Congratulations though...this time you read past the first few words of my post.

Seriously, I don't disagree that there are far more important things than DirecTV...I do believe that's what several others are saying when they state they'll leave if DirecTV raises the rates again.

It would be nice if DirecTV could somehow manage to allow their profit margin to dip a little bit during hard times and NOT raise rates...but that's unlikely to happen.


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## curt8403 (Dec 27, 2007)

Kheldar said:


> TiVo doesn't offer lifetime service? Really?
> Someone forgot to tell Tivo.
> 
> 
> ...


perhaps we are thinking of two different things. D* normally refers to lifetime service as free Tivo DVR service and from your post Tivo must mean something else, or perhaps I am messed up, which is possible


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## Kheldar (Sep 5, 2004)

curt8403 said:


> perhaps we are thinking of two different things. D* normally refers to lifetime service as free Tivo DVR service and from your post Tivo must mean something else, or perhaps I am messed up, which is possible


TiVo Lifetime Service means you make one payment and then don't have to make monthly or annual payments for the life of the reciever.

The TiVo lifetime service for the D* TiVo receivers was originally available in that fashion, but hasn't been offered on the D*TiVo receivers for a long time (then again, the D* TiVo receivers haven't been offered for a long time either).

The service was never free; it was a one-time payment (around $249-$299 IIRC), then it would show up as a $0 charge on the statement to show that you had already paid for it.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Ken S said:


> Congratulations though...this time you read past the first few words of my post.


Now since you had something of substance to say in your *rant*...:lol: :lol: ...I read the whole thing


> It would be nice if DirecTV could somehow manage to allow their profit margin to dip a little bit during hard times and NOT raise rates...but that's unlikely to happen.


We're on the same page their buddy!


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## Dolly (Jan 30, 2007)

With the country in the shape it is in now and our President-elect already saying it is going to get worse I think a lot of companies are going to take a hit. But the worse part of it is the people of this country are probably going to take the biggest hit  As companies try to continue prices will probably go up meaning less and less people will be able to cover everything in their budget so choices will have to be made about what to cut


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## jacmyoung (Sep 9, 2006)

curt8403 said:


> ...good luck with the ota and feb when the tivo tuners go down


I am sure they can sign up to DirecTV after the DirecTV price increase, so their TiVo boxes can live on


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

I expect a price hike in March.

I expect to drop some programming I can live without. 

Do I like either one, no.


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

jacmyoung said:


> Except you only talked the talk not walked the walk.
> 
> "The other project" DirecTV can look at is the DirecTiVo project of its own that had fall completely flat on its face, so much so that DirecTV has been dropping DirecTiVo accounts like flies, and replacing them with their own DVRs.
> 
> ...


It's hard to know where to start with this.

The DirecTiVo is "dying" because the _former_ owner of DIrecTV had their own brand of DVRs and wanted to buy from his own company so they stiffed TiVo. As a result the TiVo products were never upgraded to work with the newer satellites (which use different protocols than before).

The NEW owner of DirecTV likes TiVo and has signed a new agreement with them. The old TiVo boxes (HD and SD) were well received in a way that the Murdoch-era boxes were not.

Time will tell. Probably the most troublesome issue for TiVo is that DirecTV wants to have more control over the box updates, and wants them updated much faster than TiVo was doing.

Then again, DirecTV could buy a controlling interest in TiVo for a few hundred million. Wouldn't THAT pi** off Dish?!?


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

Dolly said:


> With the country in the shape it is in now and our President-elect already saying it is going to get worse I think a lot of companies are going to take a hit. But the worse part of it is the people of this country are probably going to take the biggest hit  As companies try to continue prices will probably go up meaning less and less people will be able to cover everything in their budget so choices will have to be made about what to cut


But, that can only last so long. IT is not like companies have the ability to charge whatever they want with no backlash.


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## Ed Campbell (Feb 17, 2006)

william8004 said:


> Things are like that all over.
> 
> In the great words of John Mclain. (not McCain) "Welcome to the party pal!"


Actually, between General Mills, HP and Fidelity - Albuquerque has another 3,000 new jobs coming up.


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## turey22 (Jul 30, 2007)

We all should just not watch tv anymore...I say NO MORE TV!!!!


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## ATARI (May 10, 2007)

Ken S said:


> there are far more important things than DirecTV...


Saying things like that should get you banned!

I kid, I kid


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Let's nip the Tivo discussion in the bud for this thread. Ken, we know you are anti-HR2x and pro-Tivo. It's a perfectly valid opinion, but many are. From both perspectives, the relevant points regarding Tivo have been discussed and it is now just an argument that should not be in a thread.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

kcmurphy88 said:


> It's hard to know where to start with this.
> 
> Time will tell. Probably the most troublesome issue for TiVo is that DirecTV wants to have more control over the box updates, and wants them updated much faster than TiVo was doing.


Tivo should suck it up and give up some control as likey they will need to do the same thing on the tur2way / OCAP system for there new cable tivo.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Ken S said:


> There have been a few occasions in the past month where their internal development has caused some pretty serious customer support incidents. That has gotten to the point where the CEO is talking about making their boxes more reliable in financial presentations.


Of course the advantage of doing it in house is that you can immediately get a fix in CE testing and then get it released in just a week or two, even less if it was real critical.
If it was with a Tivo based unit then we'd be waiting a month or two for such a fix from Tivo, if not longer. I remember the past very well.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

i never thought i'd even be considering this.
i check out cablevision's price and the flat price (not including any deals they would offer as a winback from Satellite etc) is 98.97 a month.
my current bill with DTV is 93.05, not including the new receiver i need to get in a few months.. If it goes up and now with the HDPC no longer being developed.... My Microsoft MCE will work much better with cable...
i dunno...


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

gregjones said:


> Let's nip the Tivo discussion in the bud for this thread. Ken, we know you are anti-HR2x and pro-Tivo. It's a perfectly valid opinion, but many are. From both perspectives, the relevant points regarding Tivo have been discussed and it is now just an argument that should not be in a thread.


You are absolutely wrong. I am not pro Tivo and I'm not anti HR2x. Frankly, I have no emotional feelings towards either device (unlike some folks here). I do have a problem with bad software releases and sloppy QA work...but that involves people and management decisions and not electronic devices.

From a monetary standpoint I have invested far more in HR2x devices than I ever did in Tivos. I own no stock in Tivo and haven't owned any DirecTV stock for several years. If you look close you will actually find posts where I have recommended people go ahead and get an HR2x device. I have also spent far more of my time helping people with HR2x problems and sending bug reports to DirecTV than I ever did with Tivo.

I also didn't bring Tivo into this thread others did. My only mention of the company was my belief that it would be taking the place of the HR2x series IF they deliver. That's it. The thread is about dropping capital projects and DirecTV cutting back. It would seem cutting back on inhouse development is not all that unusual.

So, how about you stop telling me what I should and shouldn't write and worry about making your own posts accurate.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

bonscott87 said:


> Of course the advantage of doing it in house is that you can immediately get a fix in CE testing and then get it released in just a week or two, even less if it was real critical.
> If it was with a Tivo based unit then we'd be waiting a month or two for such a fix from Tivo, if not longer. I remember the past very well.


Bonscott87,

Absolutely...inhouse development should allow for greater customization to corporate needs and to the patches/support you speak of...of course you really shouldn't need to do them as often as we've seen lately.

By the way...is all of the HR2x development done in California or is it spread out? Does anyone know if DirecTV is using foreign programmers. I don't ask that as a negative...just wondering.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I can tell you that the vast majority, if not all, HR2x and R22 development is done in the US, in El Segundo, CA

As for discussion of future TiVo projects, please keep that to the press release thread in the HD DVR forum.


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## gregjones (Sep 20, 2007)

Ken S said:


> You are absolutely wrong. I am not pro Tivo and I'm not anti HR2x. Frankly, I have no emotional feelings towards either device (unlike some folks here). I do have a problem with bad software releases and sloppy QA work...but that involves people and management decisions and not electronic devices.


You have made it clear you think that the HR2x development team is on the way out due to the Tivo announcement and your view of their code quality. I am speaking specifically of your stated opinions in that regard.


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

gregjones said:


> You have made it clear you think that the HR2x development team is on the way out due to the Tivo announcement and your view of their code quality. I am speaking specifically of your stated opinions in that regard.


Yes, I have it's not a like or dislike issue though...it's a business decision no different than DirecTV canning the HDPC-20.


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