# My DBS Journey Will Be Coming To An End



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I frequently talked about it recently but now it's pretty much a done deal, I'm leaving satellite TV. Just got of the phone with Time Warner and I'm penciled in for Sunday May 8th. They book a month in advance and I would like to wait until my DTiVos get upgraded before I make the switch. If I don't get upgraded by then I may wait one more month, call up and cancel the install and reschedule for June or I may not. I thought I was still under contract with DirecTV, I called them up earlier to see when I was up and the CSR told me my contract has expired.

I could not believe the deal I was offered, so long as I fax a copy of my DirecTV bill. I will be locked in for 2 years at $51.95 + tax and franchise fees for Time Warner's best package, every channel, all the premiums, full access to On Demand , that includes one DVR, second DVR will be an extra $10. No contract I can cancel at anytime. Once my $30 Road Runner Promo is up in the fall, I'll be saving $5 there, since I'll get it for $40 rather then $45. And on top of that, TW is giving $50 programming credits (up to 2 per account) if you give them a piece of satellite equipment. Finally something the DishDVR is good for 

After 2 years I have no idea what the price will be, but at this time I don't really care, maybe DirecTV will be back in line with cable and I'll go back, maybe not. I will really miss my DSR704, one the best and most reliable pieces of electronics I have ever owned. I really wish it was the Time Warner TiVo coming out next year, but it's the ComcasTiVo, and I envy Comcast subs in that regard.

http://twc.twrochester.com/programming/twclineup.cfm?area=6


----------



## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

Well, Steve, don't let the door hit you !Devil_lol in the IRD on you way out! 

Seriously, I hope you're still going to be around here.


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Of course I'm still going to be around, hell for a while I might have both DirecTV and TW. My Dish 508s will earn me almost two months of free service from TW so it's not like I'll be fiscally strained when it comes to TV and I have a free month of Road Runner coming because of a service outage. This Friday I’m going to the nearest Time Warner Store, some 30 miles away to play around with the DVR (Explorer 8300) and refamiliarize myself with the company. 

Only thing I didn’t like was the CSR kept pushing me in the direction of the complete All In One Package which includes Digital Phone, I can’t justify switching from traditional land based pone line to the Vontage $15 plan let alone paying $40 for the exact type of service from TW. 

Another killer is the savings on Road Runner Premium which I’m debating on getting. It’s $85 without anything else, $70 with Cable TV or VoIP, $65 with TV and VoIP. If I upgrade to Premium, it won’t be until my $29 promo is up in the fall. $29 or a 5MB connection is too good to mess up.


----------



## pomeroy (Jan 3, 2005)

Thats a Geat Deal with Time Warner, But becareful. My sister had Time Warner digital cable in Charlotte NC and I was expecting the quality to be real good compaired to my Directv, Not the case when I got there. I was shocked to see the picture quality was crap only a few channels even came close to Directv quality. I would say below dish network standards :eek2: I kept saying your paying how much?? WHAT!!


----------



## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Steve Mehs said:


> Of course I'm still going to be around, hell for a while I might have both DirecTV and TW. My Dish 508s will earn me almost two months of free service from TW so it's not like I'll be fiscally strained when it comes to TV and I have a free month of Road Runner coming because of a service outage.


PSSSST Steve, if you were to sell your 2 508s for say $199 each or even $150 each on here, you'd be a HELL of a lot better off than giving them to the cable company for credits... Lessee...$300 for both of them equals what...roughly 5 months "free" service from TW? Do the math, buddy!


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

It's not that that thought didn't cross my mind before, but around Christmas time I hooked up the better of the 508s, I had some episodes of CSI:Miami that I never watched sitting on the hard drive from early 2004 that I forgot about. I'm guessing the hard drive was starting to go bad, it would skip a few times a minute then be fine then go nuts a half an hour later. Almost same thing that happened to one of my DTiVos after a power surge last April that messed up the hard drive. 

The other 508 was the straw that broke the camels back with Dish. All my problems with the 508s happened on both units, but the one I had occurred much more frequently then the one that was in the living room. I wouldn’t feel right selling this thing as a working receiver, provided it even still ‘works’. Only reason I know the difference between the two units now is that the one that was in my room arrived with a small crack going down the center of the smart card door, plus I don’t have remotes for either receiver, I gave one away and I have no idea where the other is. I was controlling the receiver in combination with the front panel buttons and my home theater remote which still had the Dish codes programmed into it. 

I am a little nervous about picture quality, from what I've seen digital is pretty good, analog not so, but I have yet to see our locals. Locals are pretty much the only channels not simulcast in digital. I guess when I go to the TW Store next week I’ll find out. Pretty much everyone I know either has DBS or lives in Adelphia territory. My two buddies that did live near me that had cable moved in to the city and ironically have DirecTV now since they have enough problems with their cable modem service from Adelphia they didn’t want to deal with them for TV.


----------



## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Steve,

There are three things that keep me from switching to Time Warner cable. One, their DVR's are not as reliable as the Tivo. Two, the PQ on some of the channels are not up to par especially on the high definition side. Three, they do not carry all of our local high definition local channels.

Before switching, take a close look at their DVR and play with it as much as you can. If you do switch, let us know how it's going.


----------



## Ray_Clum (Apr 22, 2002)

Steve,

That's a heck of a deal! You mentioned Comcast... don't envy those of us in their areas - the price for their equivalent to TC+w/locals + DVR + 2nd receiver was $81 v. $55 from DTV. Sorry, but a Comcast TiVo ain't worth $26/month... I'm actually looking at switching to Dish from DTV because I can get AT120 + DVR + 2nd receiver through SBC for $5-10 cheaper than TC with same receiver set...


----------



## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

As the 1950s technology of cable begins to die out, we can see more and more of this. As (in most jurisdictions) an unregulated entity, it can offer give away pricing to customers it converts back from the modern technology of DBS. While continuing to overcharge loyal customers. Much like long distance telephone companies in the 80s and early 90s. The smart thing to do was to play one against the other, switching regularly.

I expect DBS churn to increase, and subscriber numbers to even drop a little in the short to mid- term.

Eventually, however the basic contradiction of cable's fundamental business plan (minimum service for maximum prices) and of its limited 1950s era technology (so-called digital notwithstanging) will catch up it. Cable will be for apartment dwellers, old folks and people to do not care about quality reception. In 10 years, DBS will have pretty much replaced cable.


----------



## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Steve have you ever tried DSL? For most people DSL is adequate and a heck of a lot cheaper


----------



## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

I've always wondered: Has ever bought a beat-up, non-working piece of Dish equipment on eBay (deliberately, I mean) just to trade it in for a cable buy-back program? Thereby keeping working Dish equipment for sale or later repatriation.


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> As the 1950s technology of cable begins to die out, we can see more and more of this.


I don't see how cable is a 1950s technology anymore. With 43 premium movie channels, most if not all in Dolby Digital, 9 national HD channels, 3 locals in HD, and nearly 25 channels of On Demand.

I may not have been alive in the 50's but I doubt people have access to Dolby Digital on a few dozen channels, I bet HD pickens were pretty slim and for some reason I just don't see many people downloading shows and movies off of remote servers to watch on their TV sets back then 



> Steve have you ever tried DSL? For most people DSL is adequate and a heck of a lot cheaper


DSL is not available in my area. I live in the boonies and my town doesn't have a phone company. Our CO is 2 towns (~15 miles) away. The only time I'd ever consider getting rid of Road Runner is it Verizon ever offers fiber here, which I seriously doubt but I can always hope. 15 MB/s down, 2 MB/s up for $50, sure beats RR Premium at 8 MB/s down, 512 KB up for $65-$85. Even if DSL was available here, I'd still go with cable from what I've seen I get an average of 150-200 k/s better transfer rate then those with Verizon DSL here in the Buffalo area and DSL in general nationwide.



> There are three things that keep me from switching to Time Warner cable. One, their DVR's are not as reliable as the Tivo. Two, the PQ on some of the channels are not up to par especially on the high definition side. Three, they do not carry all of our local high definition local channels.


The DVR and local channel PQ are the two things that worry me. My friend had the 8000 before he moved, I played around with it once or twice and didn't really care for it, well actually I didn't want to care for it. I'll talk to him some time this week to get specific pros and cons. While I'm don't have hi def yet, TW doesn't offer all of our Buffalo locals either, but they do offer all the Rochester ones which is a positive sign. Usually Time Warner takes care of those in Rochester first when it comes to new technology, new channels, and the like then a few months later we get it here in the Buffalo market divisions. I do plan on playing with the DVR a lot, I feel ultimately that's what will make it or break it, provided locals are watchable. When we used to have cable, all of the big three had some sort of distracting shadows, lines or and/or noise that made them a pain to watch.


----------



## midnight75 (Jun 25, 2004)

That is a really good deal. I probably would have done the same.


----------



## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Uh, Steve, don't you have a DBS Radio system called XM?


----------



## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> I don't see how cable is a 1950s technology anymore.


You will. So called digital cable is just a few permium channels in digital, with everything else in 1950s ANALOG. Cable saw its monoploy melt away and came up with this digital cable deal. A few pay-extras in some format that is only slightly less than EVERY CHANNEL on DBS is carried in.

The rest with ghosts, snow, analog sound, and so on.


----------



## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

http://twc.twrochester.com/programming/twclineup.cfm?area=6[/QUOTE]

i like the lineup in that link everything you could want is there

no Starz comedy though


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> Uh, Steve, don't you have a DBS Radio system called XM?


Not quite, under the FCC, XM and Sirius fall under the category of SDARS (Satellite Digital Audio Radio Service) not DBS. DBS generally broadcasts in the 11.7-12.4 GHz range, SDARS broadcasts in the ~2320-2345 MHz range. While DBS and SDARS are both transmitted digitally via satellite, there are a lot of differences between the two technologies.



> You will. So called digital cable is just a few permium channels in digital, with everything else in 1950s ANALOG.


Did you take a look at the line up I linked above? Nearly every channel in the analog line up is duplicated in digital, except locals, community access, TV Guide Channel and for some odd reason CSPAN 2. The picture quality on Fox News channel 115 is much better then it is on 42. No ghosting, no analog noise, just a hint of digital compression. Time Warner has really gotten their act together here and has transformed into a superb cable system, thanks to the competition of DBS. Remember cable is regional, cable in your area may suck (I was in Wheeling, WV last year, and man at the hotel did it suck), but here Time Warner has made vast improvements. Cable is not the same in all areas, TW used to be awful here, but now it's more advanced then DBS. Now if I lived 2 miles west of where I do this wouldn't be an issue. Adelphia is the cable provider and they're nothing like TW, prices are much higher, they offer less channels, very few analog channels are simulcast in digital.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

SamC said:


> You will. So called digital cable is just a few permium channels in digital, with everything else in 1950s ANALOG. Cable saw its monoploy melt away and came up with this digital cable deal. A few pay-extras in some format that is only slightly less than EVERY CHANNEL on DBS is carried in.
> 
> The rest with ghosts, snow, analog sound, and so on.


My neighbors Digital tier is somewhat blurred. I wouldn't switch back to cable,, for all the tea in China. Watch out, they might raise your rates in January.


----------



## midnight75 (Jun 25, 2004)

Steve Mehs said:


> Remember cable is regional, cable in your area may suck


That is the case in my area! DBS is very popular in my area.

When I had cable, I did not get Cartoon Network, Headline News, E!, AMC & several other channels that everyone else gets.

Also, Comedy Central, History Channel, Travel Channel, Food Network, ABC Family, IFC, TCM, MSNBC & SCI-FI are not include in expanded basic, you have to pay extra for them.


----------



## Paul Secic (Dec 16, 2003)

midnight75 said:


> That is the case in my area! DBS is very popular in my area.
> 
> When I had cable, I did not get Cartoon Network, Headline News, E!, AMC & several other channels that everyone else gets.
> 
> Also, Comedy Central, History Channel, Travel Channel, Food Network, ABC Family, IFC, TCM, MSNBC & SCI-FI are not include in expanded basic, you have to pay extra for them.


All of these channels are inn AT 120.


----------



## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

carload said:


> I've always wondered: Has ever bought a beat-up, non-working piece of Dish equipment on eBay (deliberately, I mean) just to trade it in for a cable buy-back program? Thereby keeping working Dish equipment for sale or later repatriation.


 Yes, I've heard of people doing that - even without being a DBS customer (before they started asking for a current bill).


----------



## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

Apparently, most of you need to READ Steve's post again. He stated he was locked in for that price for a period of 24 months. That means none of the cable company dreaded price hikes. As for simulcasting, we are currently trying it out in our area for Comcast and I have to say that the simulcast channels are just as good as DBS. The HD actually looks better than DBS because it's not downconverted. My front projector registers the HD signal as full HD resolution. I would love for D* to add some more national channels in HD and some more interactive content, but for now, I'm staying put... at least until the end of my price lock is up.


----------



## mattsarz (Jan 14, 2005)

Steve, has TW removed MSG and FSN New York in all of NY? My parents have Adelphia in Niagara County and he saw an article that says MSG and FSN New York were removed from all NY state TW systems for NBA TV and CSTV I believe. Has this changed?


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Honestly Matt I have no idea, interesting question and I'll definitely find out this Friday. MSG is still listed on the lines ups, but so is Empire, so that really doesn't mean much. Time Warner pretty much owns the entire state except for Buffalo/Niagara, parts of NYC and maybe a few other areas, so it would be pretty stupid to remove both RSNs. They might be able to get way with removing Fox Sports NY from the Rochester and Southern Tier franchises, but to removed it from CNY, Capitol Region or NYC is plain idiotic. When TW takes over Adelphia it will be interesting around here, I just hope my service will continue from the Rochester franchise rather then get migrated to Adelphia’s crappy infrastructure. I’m 1in Erie County, 12 miles east of Buffalo city limits, 50 miles ways from Rochester, but my cable service is from Rochester.

BTW- Sorry I didn’t respond the first time you posted this in another thread, I was going to reply had a partial one typed up and it completely slipped my mind.


----------



## mattsarz (Jan 14, 2005)

Steve Mehs said:


> Honestly Matt I have no idea, interesting question and I'll definitely find out this Friday. MSG is still listed on the lines ups, but so is Empire, so that really doesn't mean much. Time Warner pretty much owns the entire state except for Buffalo/Niagara, parts of NYC and maybe a few other areas, so it would be pretty stupid to remove both RSNs. They might be able to get way with removing Fox Sports NY from the Rochester and Southern Tier franchises, but to removed it from CNY, Capitol Region or NYC is plain idiotic. When TW takes over Adelphia it will be interesting around here, I just hope my service will continue from the Rochester franchise rather then get migrated to Adelphia's crappy infrastructure. I'm 1in Erie County, 12 miles east of Buffalo city limits, 50 miles ways from Rochester, but my cable service is from Rochester.
> 
> BTW- Sorry I didn't respond the first time you posted this in another thread, I was going to reply had a partial one typed up and it completely slipped my mind.


Thanks Steve. Pops is worried about the Sabres coverage since they sold rights to MSG. If they don't show MSG in the area...well that depends if/when the NHL returns.

One thing my parents are happy about is that TW does offer a CableCard. They use Adelphia's CableCard right now for their HDTV and can just get their HD locals for the rental fee on the card (they've decided that they don't need the digital cable tiers at this time). They are really against having a lot of boxes hooked up to the TV and I couldn't find where Comcast offered CableCards in every area.

As for the service areas, you'll probably continue with the service you get out of Rochester. I know that Alden, your area, Wolcottsville, those areas in the far eastern ends of Erie & Niagara counties hook up on Rochester's end and the rest will probably go through the existing Adelphia system. The only thing I could see happening is that TW does some channel restructuring on both systems (ie. you could lose those Rochester OTA stations since Marilla kinda lies right in the middle of the DMA and not on the outer reaches).


----------



## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Glad you actually have a cable choice. Most don't. Charter around here is more expensive (by a lot) with less channels then either D* or E* and not even half the HD that even D* has.

Most of the Comcast systems around here are VERY expensive as well.

Good luck!


----------



## pez2002 (Dec 13, 2002)

allright so may 8th has passed so give us an update steve


----------



## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

May 8th has come and gone and I still have D*. Been meaning to update this thread but I forgot. Turns out the first CSR I talked to was incorrect. I am still under contract until July 22 when I purchased my other DTiVo. Friday I finally went to the TW Store and got a demo. First after 6 ½ years of having channel banners on the top of the screen it’s weird having it at the bottom. The Explorer 8300 appears to be a decent box, not exactly a TiVo, but it looks like it will come close. Picture quality is the big thing though. Some channels are very pixilated, but all the premiums look pretty good. I still have not ruled out cable and I will get it back after my D* contract is up. If I’m not satisfied I can always cancel and go back to D*. 

Talking to sales reps was very positive. The TW guys were very professional and they really reinforce that if you’re not satisfied you can cancel anytime without any penalty and none of the guys I talked to on the phone or in person bashed DBS.


----------



## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

Did the box FF thru commercials?


----------



## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Bob Haller said:


> Did the box FF thru commercials?


Bob: No, the 8300HD won't FF thru commercials (i.e. 30 sec. skip). It does have a FF of recorded material, but you have to hit Play to resume normal operation.

Steve: I've had the 8300HD with Time Warner for over a month now. So far, it's been a pretty nice box. It doesn't have a lot of the nice TiVo features, but it does offer several features like the dish 921 (dual tuner recording, etc.)

When you do go with TW, if you're going HD, demand the 8300HD receiver. The 8000 is/was not a very good box. In my previous venture with TW cable, the box I had caused me to switch to DBS. Now, the additional HD channels offered by TW (including ABC, NBC and PBS), along with the package deal of cable, Road Runner and VOIP have won me back. If Dish had offered LIL here along with NBR for the 721, I'd probably still be with them.


----------

