# The Dish 942 official press release - $749 MSRP



## Mark Lamutt

DISH Network Introduces Pay-TV Industry First with Multi-Room Satellite TV Receiver That Records in High-Definition

LAS VEGAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 6, 2005--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NasdaqISH) and its DISH Network(TM) satellite TV service announced today the release of its newest high-definition (HD) satellite TV receiver, the DISH Player-DVR 942. No other pay-TV company offers the innovative combination of HD and digital video recording (DVR) features with multi-room capability like the DISH Player-DVR 942.

Continuing as a leader in HD and DVR initiatives, DISH Network's DISH Player-DVR 942 is the first-of-its-kind dual tuner, HD DVR with the ability to view independent programs -- one in high definition and one in standard definition programming on two televisions at once. It features a massive 250 GB hard drive with a recording capacity of up to 25 hours of high-definition and up to 180 hours of standard-definition content.

"DISH Network started the adoption of cutting-edge consumer electronics products with the introduction of the digital video recorder in 1999," said Mark Jackson, president of EchoStar Technologies Corp. "Now we are introducing the next generation of DVRs, including the first and only satellite TV receiver that will let you record HD programming and play it back in HD on the main TV and in standard definition on every other connected TV in the house."

The cutting-edge DISH Player-DVR 942 features rewind, fast-forward, and pause as well as a picture-in-picture feature on any TV and the ability to record Dolby Digital(R) when available. The DISH Player-DVR 942 will be available for purchase in the first quarter of 2005 for an incredibly low MSRP of $749, which includes a dish antenna and free standard professional installation for new customers.

The DISH Player-DVR 942 also features:

-- Digital/analog off-air tuner

-- Up to 9-day, Picture-In-Guide, Widescreen Electronic Program
Guide (EPG)

-- High-Definition Resolutions: 480p, 720p, 1080i (480i is
up-converted)

-- All DISH Player-DVR functionality, including name-based
recording and DVR menu

-- Records two programs simultaneously in high definition, but
programs can be viewed in standard definition on other TVs in
the home

The DISH Player-DVR 942 offers convenience and features that customers have grown to depend on, including parental controls, electronic program guide, picture in guide and name based recording.

DISH Network offers ESPN HD, Discovery HD Theater, TNT HD, HDNet and HDNet Movies for $9.99 per month. In addition, DISH Network also offers CBS-HD, HBO-HD, Showtime HD and pay-per-view movies in HD. Under a special promotion, DISH Network is offering new customers six months free of the HD Pak and offering existing customers half off the monthly price for the HD Pak for 12 months.

Please call 1-800-333-DISH (3474) or visit www.DISHNetwork.com for more information.

About EchoStar

EchoStar Communications Corporation (NasdaqISH) serves more than 10.4 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last four years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service. DISH Network ranks No. 1 in Customer Satisfaction among Cable/Satellite TV Subscribers by J.D. Power and Associates. Visit EchoStar's DISH Network at www.dishnetwork.com or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474).

Artwork: An image of DISH Network's DISH Player-DVR 942 is available on our Website at www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/presskit/index.shtml.

CONTACT: EchoStar Communications Corporation
Marc Lumpkin, 303-723-2020
[email protected]

SOURCE: EchoStar Communications Corporation


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## jeslevine

and that the 942 is the "first"???


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## Mark Lamutt

The 921 isn't a multi-room receiver. The 942 is. That's what's "first" about it.


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## jeslevine

jeslevine said:


> and that the 942 is the "first"???


Sorry I meant 921


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## jrbdmb

Since it isn't mentioned in the release, I guess the 942 will *not* support any upcoming MPEG-4 channels?


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## jeslevine

jrbdmb said:


> Since it isn't mentioned in the release, I guess the 942 will *not* support any upcoming MPEG-4 channels?


That doesn't make sense if that is the direction they are going


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## Mark Lamutt

No kidding...


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## Mikey

jrbdmb said:


> Since it isn't mentioned in the release, I guess the 942 will *not* support any upcoming MPEG-4 channels?


I expect this box will not be a big hit among those who monitor this board.


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## BFG

If they're smart, yup.


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## hambone

BFG said:


> If they're smart, yup.


And for that, I am very thankful for this board :allthumbs


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## nuts4scuba

Mikey said:


> I expect this box will not be a big hit among those who monitor this board.


Maybe if they allowed us to lease it and then just exchange it when the mpeg-4 dvrs become available.


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## Guest

921 didn't do anything for me. Doesn't sound like the 942 will either. I hear D* is getting HD locals for the Boston area. Maybe it's time to make the switch from E* to D* and I'll be able to get rid of Comcast.


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## finniganps

I really thought they'd have a lease option on this one....like $20/mo.


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## bhawley

> The DISH Player-DVR 942 offers convenience and features that customers have grown to depend on, including parental controls, electronic program guide, picture in guide and *name based recording*.


What BS 

Bill Hawley


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## Mike Richardson

Aha, so the model number makes sense then - it's got 4 tuners then, if it can connect to 2 TVs? Two HD and two SD (and ATSC but that doesnt count?)? (but didn't the 921 also have two HD, two SD?)

Doesn't make sense. oh well


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## Mark Lamutt

The 942 has 3 tuners - 2 satellite (HD and SD) and 1 OTA (analog and digital).


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## bavaria72

jrbdmb said:


> Since it isn't mentioned in the release, I guess the 942 will *not* support any upcoming MPEG-4 channels?


Since they didn't specify which formats they will be using, lets not throw it in the water yet. I just can't believe they wouldn't make it MPEG4 compatable. $800 still is pretty steep though. What happened to them wanting to go to a all leasing business model.....


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## Danny R

> and *name based recording*


_What BS_

I thought the 942 was supposed to have the same user interface as the 522, which does have ebr. Why then do you think its BS that the 942 will have it?


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## finniganps

I'm amazed they would release it W/O named based recording.....I wonder if they're planning to add it for a monthly fee?


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## Mikey

finniganps said:


> I'm amazed they would release it W/O named based recording.....I wonder if they're planning to add it for a monthly fee?


I don't think you read it right:

The DISH Player-DVR 942 also features:
...
-- All DISH Player-DVR functionality, including name-based
recording and DVR menu


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## MarcBate

I settled for the 821 since I couldn't even find a 921 for several months after it was released. I'm concerned that it will take another year before I can actually get this 942 receiver, just when a new receiver is announced. I don't want to end up like the poor 921 owners, for example, who were promised named-based recording, told to wait after it was late, and then just dropped. Any signs that it will be different this year?


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## Ron Barry

Mark Lamutt said:


> The 942 has 3 tuners - 2 satellite (HD and SD) and 1 OTA (analog and digital).


From reading the release it looks like we have confirmation that it will only be One OTA tuner. Remember I got a Email back form Tech Chat saying that it would have 2 OTA Tuners, what a suprise that information was incorrect.


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## Charise

The picture on the E* website (Artwork: An image of DISH Network's DISH Player-DVR 942 is available on our Website at http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/...kit/index.shtml.) clearly shows "MPEG 2" on the front of the receiver.

I don't want to wait forever for an HD receiver, but I can't justify the money when the next generation has already been announced! :nono2:


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## BFG

Yeah, we know this


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## Capmeister

I'm still going to go with an HDTivo. From show to my home is a long time waiting. I'm switching to D* from E* end of this month.


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## Jacob S

How stupid can one get? Release a new HD product that can still only do MPEG-2 when they plan on switching to MPEG-4? It seems to me as if they already had this receiver in development for a while and perhaps a number of them manufactured before they decided that they were going to go MPEG-4. I think it would be cheaper for them to find some more satellites space and install new dishes or kits for the current dishes to get HD channels launched unless they can get at least 2 or 3 times the channels with the current space that they have.


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## bavaria72

Once again, until E* actually posts the specs for the 942, all we can do is hold our breath and keep our fingers crossed. Once the specs are released then lets start this conversation up again.


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## Blockhead

did they give any idea on the availability of these new recievers> you would think since the have a retail price ot would be fairly soon. 
I wonder if they learned thier lesson from the 921 and will have more on hand also


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## wcswett

So, when will the new DVR 942 Bug Report Forum be announced? 

--- WCS


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## BobaBird

Yup, two of the major shortcomings of the 921 remain unaddressed. As great as the 942 may be (independent viewing on an HD and SD set, 522 GUI, NBR, and of course the new DOD  ) it shouldn't be released until it can do MPEG-4 and has a second OTA tuner.


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## zer0cool

So, basically the only advantage is I won't have to hit the HD/SD button when I walk from the living room to the bedroom? Think i'll just keep my 921 until there's an Mpeg4 box (and content for it).
I saw this on Yahoonews:

PORTABLE RECORDERS, SPLIT SCREENS 


EchoStar leaned heavily on digital video recording in its own presentation. Its showpiece, the model 625, will offer 100 hours of recording space for users and have 100 hours of space for video-on-demand content and debut by March. 


Currently seen by some to lag in the market for high-definition broadcasts, EchoStar plans to expand its HD lineup once it moves to a video standard called MPEG4, which offers better data compression than the current MPEG2 standard. 


"The big mass push in HD for us will be this fall as we introduce MPEG4," said Charlie Ergen, chief executive of EchoStar. 


The company will also introduce a line of portable video players that can connect to the DVRs and download recorded content for playback on the road. EchoStar will use devices made by consumer electronics company Archos for the service. 


Other services on tap, EchoStar said, are horse-race wagering through on-screen interactive services and a device that will pipe audio from satellite broadcasts to any area of the home. 


Ergen also said EchoStar would move back into the market for two-way broadband Internet access via satellite this fall, though he did not offer specifics. Both EchoStar and DirecTV have had limited success at best with such services.


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## DVDDAD

The server for the picture of the 942 was down for a while, so here is the picture, if you can't get to it:


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## wcswett

zer0cool said:


> The company will also introduce a line of portable video players that can connect to the DVRs and download recorded content for playback on the road. EchoStar will use devices made by consumer electronics company Archos for the service.


Hmmm... I have an Archos model 380. It's a pretty good little DVR in its own right. Not sure if I want to shell out for ANOTHER one so I hope they'll release a software upgrade for it.

--- WCS


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## Mike Richardson

It's probably just an old picture! DISH seems committed to MPEG-4 so you can sure as hell bet this receiver will have it. Although, really, after E*10 launches, they'd have at least one free transponder and they could add more HD there without making all those people with 811 and 6000 get a new receiver.


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## Jacob S

If that is what the 942 looks like it seems to have a more sleeker look than the current models that are out.


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## jeffwtux

ok, as far as I'm concerned the biggest news here is that there's actually a price. That means they are selling this to BUY not just to lease, right? I think we all assumed that wouldn't be the case.


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## bavaria72

jeffwtux said:


> ok, as far as I'm concerned the biggest news here is that there's actually a price. That means they are selling this to BUY not just to lease, right? I think we all assumed that wouldn't be the case.


Yup, I concur, What happen to the lease business model? And I also agree with Mike R. about it must being MPEG4 compatable. JHC, I hope Charlie clears things up soon because Rupert is making him look like an idiot!


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## jeffwtux

I really wouldn't worry about the MPEG 4 compatibility right now. Isn't that a software thing? Is anybody even using that yet?


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## jeffwtux

Now as far as Rupert, I don't think he's been so smart either. I mean he sold the farm on that Sunday Ticket Extension. Looks like it will forever be a loss leader.


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## DJ Rob

jeffwtux said:


> I really wouldn't worry about the MPEG 4 compatibility right now. Isn't that a software thing? Is anybody even using that yet?


You need the HARDWARE that will handle MPEG 4 though...the older receivers (all the ones on the market now) cannot.


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## James Long

jeffwtux said:


> ok, as far as I'm concerned the biggest news here is that there's actually a price. That means they are selling this to BUY not just to lease, right? I think we all assumed that wouldn't be the case.


Just because there is a price doesn't mean it is for sale. They could just be setting the value of it for people who don't return them on leases. It's good to have a value set.

I hope they do sell them, but that is a high price for something that might break and will become obsolete as all electronics does in a couple of years.

JL


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## BFG

Scott has reported that they said at the press conference that it would be sold as well as available in certain DHA packages, so the lease option is there...


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## boylehome

Mark Lamutt said:


> The cutting-edge DISH Player-DVR 942 features rewind, fast-forward, and pause as well as a picture-in-picture  feature on any TV and the ability to record Dolby Digital(R) when available.


Mark, will the PIP work with OTA and HD Satellite?

Thanks,

John


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## bhawley

Danny R said:


> _What BS_
> 
> I thought the 942 was supposed to have the same user interface as the 522, which does have ebr. Why then do you think its BS that the 942 will have it?


Last time I checked I have not depended on NBR on my 921, 721, or 508.


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## David_Levin

jeffwtux said:


> ok, as far as I'm concerned the biggest news here is that there's actually a price. That means they are selling this to BUY not just to lease, right? I think we all assumed that wouldn't be the case.


Remember the E* Receiver with the buit-in DVD player? Didn't think so.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 942 doesn't see the light of day till 4th quarter or early next year with mpeg4 support.

As far as pricing.... A lot of things can happen between now and then. It's hard to guess the lease $$$ E* would charge for a hi-end HD PVR.


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## BobMurdoch

Soooo. 

942 vs. 921 comparison.

They want you to pay $200 more (vs. the current 921 price)

The addition of Multiroom capability and name based recording BUT combined with a loss of PIP (if the timers are being used simultaneously I suppose) and the ability to record two HD shows at the same time. I'm guessing recording space is the same. 

If it is NOT Mpeg4 compliant (or upgradeable.... 8psk-eque modules anyone?), then this thing is dead in the water. 

With the 921 (which I've had since January 2004), it will give me two years of use before I need to upgrade to an Mpeg4 receiver. (Who am I kidding, knowing E* it will 6-12 months AFTER that probably).

Well, it's safe to say THESE things won't be selling for $400 over list price on EBay like the 921 was when it first trickled out.


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## Mark Lamutt

boylehome said:


> Mark, will the PIP work with OTA and HD Satellite?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John


Yes.


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## Mark Lamutt

BobMurdoch said:


> Soooo.
> The addition of Multiroom capability and name based recording BUT combined with a loss of PIP (if the timers are being used simultaneously I suppose) and the ability to record two HD shows at the same time. I'm guessing recording space is the same.


The 942 will have single user mode, just like the 522. So, no loss of PIP, and the 942 will be able to do more than just record 2 HD streams at the same time.


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## Scott Greczkowski

jrbdmb said:


> Since it isn't mentioned in the release, I guess the 942 will *not* support any upcoming MPEG-4 channels?


I asked this at yesterday's Echostar Press Conference to Mark Jackson and was told flat out that the 942 is NOT upgradable to MPEG4.

In addition Charlie said that no new HD content would be coming until the fall and that new content would be MPEG4.

The 942 is obsoliete already.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Mike Richardson said:


> It's probably just an old picture! DISH seems committed to MPEG-4 so you can sure as hell bet this receiver will have it.


Hope you didn't bet much. The 942 will not have MPEG4 nor can it be upgraded to support MPEG4.


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## Mike D-CO5

Why even release it then? Dish will have to replace it by Fall . So at the most it will work for like 8 - 9 months and then you will have to replace it.

Scott did you say that both companies will swap out all existing hd receivers for little or no money upfront, yesterday on your talking head on your website? I would be interested if Dish follows through with this or if they would expect everyone to pay up front again after the 1000.00 I paid on the damn 921.


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## Nick

> The company will also introduce a line of portable video players that can connect to the DVRs and download recorded content for playback on the road...


I've had one of those for over four years now. It's called a laptop computer, with a 15" active matrix TFT screen - and it does quite a bit more than just play back movies, such as connecting _wirelessly_ to the 'net.


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## Scott Greczkowski

Mike D-CO5 said:


> Scott did you say that both companies will swap out all existing hd receivers for little or no money upfront, yesterday on your talking head on your website? I would be interested if Dish follows through with this or if they would expect everyone to pay up front again after the 1000.00 I paid on the damn 921.


Some customers will get free or next to free upgrades, however it depends on the customer, not everyone will qualify for a free or next to free upgrade.

I will have Charlie Speech online over the weekend so you can hear Charlies own words himself.

I am off to the CES again today I will be looking at the 2WIRE box.


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## David_Levin

Scott Greczkowski said:


> In addition Charlie said that no new HD content would be coming until the fall and that new content would be MPEG4.


From (thanks Scott):
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=272792&postcount=1



> He also mentioned that while no new HD content is planned until the fall, he may "have" to put up some additional HD channels in MPEG2 format in the future.


yea, with what DirecTV and Comcast have, Charlie is going to be under BIG pressure to get a few more channels up.


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## jeffwtux

What does DirecTV have up? They HAVE FEWER NON OTA stations than DISH. ABC and NBC DON'T COUNT BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE CAN'T GET THEM ANYWAYS. Dish has TNTHD; Direc DOESN'!.


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## bavaria72

And besides D* just announced that any new HD programming to include the locals in HD will all be MPEG4 (and their sats have not even been launched yet!). I find it interesting people in the E* threads are having apoplexy about this while the D* folks seem to be taking it much more calmer. If, as Scott said, the 942 is only MPEG2 - boat anchor!


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## David_Levin

jeffwtux said:


> What does DirecTV have up? They HAVE FEWER NON OTA stations than DISH. ABC and NBC DON'T COUNT BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE CAN'T GET THEM ANYWAYS. Dish has TNTHD; Direc DOESN'!.


For the sports fans: ESPN2

Universal HD (former BravoHD). Some original programming. I'd love to see Battlestar Glactica in HD.

There's a rumor floating around on AVS that TNT-HD is also coming.


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## Mikey

David_Levin said:


> For the sports fans: ESPN2


Anybody actually SEEN ESPN2 on D* yet?


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## Jacob S

I like the look of the 942 receiver.


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## Foxbat

Jacob S said:


> I like the look of the 942 receiver.


Yeah, it's soooo important that it be a good looking box...

Everyone: It's obsolete before it's released!
DishNetwork: Yeah, but it's Damn Good Lookin'!


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## Scott Greczkowski

I was talking to a senior Dish Network executive who was gung ho on the 942, and then while I agreed its a nice receiver, its a boat anchor already.

He looked at me like I said something bad, I then explained that because it was not MPEG4 upgradable was a big concern, especially since it appears all future HDTV Channels will be in MPEG4.

He then looked at me and said that I had a good point and he never really gave it much thought and then said he does not believe we will see MPEG4 for a year to a year and a half. He then repeated a few times that I made a good point...

Its scarry that they dont think about this stuff.

I did get to see and play with the new 2WIRE box today. No this is a NICE box, and it is designed for MPEG4. If Dish would tell everyone with a HD DVR that this 2 wire box for free or even a $200 upgrade fee, Dish would have a LOT of VERY happy customers.

It was funny when I was at the 2WIRE demo, I was sitting next to a Dish Network software engineer who I heard say a few times, I wish we could write software like that, and I wish we knew how to do that... Man thats scarry....


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## Foxbat

Scott,
Thanks for the hands-on report. Did they have a MediaPortal (w/DVD) or MediaPoint (no drive) set up? The screen shots on the 2Wire website make it look sweet...


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## Danny R

_I was talking to a senior Dish Network executive who was gung ho on the 942, and then while I agreed its a nice receiver, its a boat anchor already._

I think you folks need to loosen up a bit about the 942 being a boat anchor. It was first anounced back in April 2004 right? Looks like it has taken at least a year to even be released.

Have we even gotten rumors of a HD replacement receiver yet for MPEG4? Does anyone here really think Dish will have a PVR that does MPEG4 before another year passes? Sure they say fall 2005, but I bet at best they only have an 811 type receiver and NOT a PVR at that point to view it.

While I think its somewhat silly for Dish to release a product the same year they announce it will be obsolete, I think many folks are being a bit hard on those who say they might still want one.

A) what Dish receiver can you get now that does support MPEG4? The answer is nada, zip.

B) thus, if you want an HD PVR, the question is do you think the 942 is worth $200 more than the 921. For nbr, simultaneous HD/SD content... perhaps so. Its not as if the 921 isn't a boat anchor as well.

My own opinion is that despite claims that MPEG4 will be released, DISH probably won't see any such thing until at least 2006.

Does it make sense to go and upgrade a 921 to a 942? I wouldn't think so. But for someone who is still wanting to get a HD PVR, the 942 is not as bad an option. All the choices currently will go obsolete the same time.


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## Jacob S

Foxbat said:


> Yeah, it's soooo important that it be a good looking box...
> 
> Everyone: It's obsolete before it's released!
> DishNetwork: Yeah, but it's Damn Good Lookin'!


I knew someone was going to reply back with some type of remark like that  . I know better than to buy a receiver because of the looks, I was just stating that it was a good looking box. I have already decided on not buying it because of the MPEG-4 issue and its a bit pricey. I still believe there are improvements to be made and price drops to be had with this type of HD technology. Also 25 hours is not very many for HD once HD becomes the norm.

If I were to ever spend $750 on a receiver it had better last me at least 5 or 6 years or get a free replacement (or very cheap replacement at least 2 years down the road for a receiver with some enhancements).

Is Dish Network another "Apple" in that they dont believe in the software? I guess that would make DirecTv the "Orange". Don't this sound peachy.


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## Mike Richardson

Jacob S said:


> Is Dish Network another "Apple" in that they dont believe in the software? I guess that would make DirecTv the "Orange". Don't this sound peachy.


That doesn't make any sense? Apple does not believe in the software or DISH does not believe in the software?


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## nuts4scuba

Danny R said:


> _I was talking to a senior Dish Network executive who was gung ho on the 942, and then while I agreed its a nice receiver, its a boat anchor already._
> 
> I think you folks need to loosen up a bit about the 942 being a boat anchor. It was first anounced back in April 2004 right? Looks like it has taken at least a year to even be released.
> 
> Have we even gotten rumors of a HD replacement receiver yet for MPEG4? Does anyone here really think Dish will have a PVR that does MPEG4 before another year passes? Sure they say fall 2005, but I bet at best they only have an 811 type receiver and NOT a PVR at that point to view it.


I agree with you on this. I don't see E* hitting their end of '05 mark. It took them years to get the 921 to market. So far, they haven't shown an MPEG-4 compatible box. They may have channels up in MPEG-4, but not an MPEG-4 receiver. :eek2:


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## Altaman

The question is what makes the 942 worth $200 more than the 921? Sure it's got two HD tuners (same as 921) and a new guide with NBR, but that does not justify the large price difference?

This thing is going to have to drop in price fast if they want to sell any of them. I live in Canada and BEV is supposed to be releasing the 942 (rumor of it being the 9200 in BEV #'s) in March and it will most likely be a $1000 CAD (based on current exchange rate) to buy ($400 more than the 522/5220). While we have not gotten a HD-PVR here in Canada yet (BEV did not bring in the 921) and as such there is a pent up demand for one, I personally can't see them selling alot of them at that price (heck I thought it was crazy that you americans paid $1000 for the 921 (sorry, but that is alot of cash even for you rich americans  ).

I think that the 942 should be selling for the same price as the 921 is now, with refinements in technology causing lower costs it crazy to sell for that price. The only reason I can see it for being that high is E* has builtin a upgrade fee into the price for Mpeg-4. Maybe once they clear out all the 921's the price will come down?

Will I buy the 942 in Canada...not at $1000, possibly at $700-$750. Also E* is going to have to make it easier for users to upgrade the HD as 250 gigs/25 hrs of HD programming is minimal (better than Motorola boxes that give ya about 10 hrs of HD recording) and 50 hrs is more acceptable.

Alt


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## Altaman

Mark Lamutt said:


> The 942 has 3 tuners - 2 satellite (HD and SD) and 1 OTA (analog and digital).


Hi Mark:

Just a little clarification here! Does the 942 not have 2 HD Sat HD tuners, but does down resolution on TV2 output? Meaning that you can record two HD programs and can be shown in full HD glory on TV1 out but SD res on TV2 out?

Alt


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## jeslevine

Capmeister said:


> I'm still going to go with an HDTivo. From show to my home is a long time waiting. I'm switching to D* from E* end of this month.


just curious if hd content is your objective why not go with voom

they are offering free hardware and installation up to three rooms, and a six month contract?


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## hildred

yes will the older unit still be good to go with mpeg 4 on


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## SimpleSimon

Scott Greczkowski said:


> I was talking to a senior Dish Network executive who was gung ho on the 942, and then while I agreed its a nice receiver, its a boat anchor already.
> 
> He looked at me like I said something bad, I then explained that because it was not MPEG4 upgradable was a big concern, especially since it appears all future HDTV Channels will be in MPEG4.
> 
> He then looked at me and said that I had a good point and *he never really gave it much thought* and then said he does not believe we will see MPEG4 for a year to a year and a half. He then repeated a few times that I made a good point...
> 
> *Its scarry that they dont think about this stuff.*
> 
> I did get to see and play with the new 2WIRE box today. No this is a NICE box, and it is designed for MPEG4. If Dish would tell everyone with a HD DVR that this 2 wire box for free or even a $200 upgrade fee, Dish would have a LOT of VERY happy customers.
> 
> It was funny when I was at the 2WIRE demo, I was sitting next to a *Dish Network software engineer who I heard say a few times, I wish we could write software like that, and I wish we knew how to do that...* Man thats scarry....


 A sad state of affairs in Denver that's for sure.

If I had to hazard a guess, the E* software group is a bunch of satellite engineers, not a bunch of consumer software guys. 

What's even worse, is that there's a BUNCH of un/underemployed software experts in Denver that CAN do this stuff. While it IS rocket science, it is NOT brain surgery.


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## juan ellitinez

Capmeister said:


> I'm still going to go with an HDTivo. From show to my home is a long time waiting. I'm switching to D* from E* end of this month.


I'm glad you decided to get a hdtivo..they are gonna be obsolete within 6 months when mpeg-4 comes out


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## James Long

jeslevine said:


> just curious if hd content is your objective why not go with voom


With voom being up for sale, it is a bit of a risk to make a committment. It will take a while for the sale to close, especially if they are bought by another player like E* or D* - so it is not like V* subscribers will have no notice of who the new owners are. But it is still a question mark of what will V* do until they are sold. What they have will be what they have until then ... no improvements. So if you like Voom today you are in luck, but if you want Voom to add something new don't hold your breath.

JL


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## Richard King

> With voom being up for sale, it is a bit of a risk to make a committment


Ah, yes, but... if I get Voom, which I am considering, I could have the poor Voom guy install an external antenna to pull in my locals from 80+ miles away and once Voom goes away, I still have the antenna. :lol: Well, it's a thought anyway. Does Voom use a decent antenna in an area like mine or do they use the same antenna everywhere and anywhere? I wonder if I could convince the installer to install my rotor and amplifier that I have here along with the antenna.  Actually I had an outdoor antenna that pulled in Fox and ABC, but no NBC or CBS. The antenna (along with other things) went away with the hurricane.


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## Mark Lamutt

Altaman said:


> Hi Mark:
> 
> Just a little clarification here! Does the 942 not have 2 HD Sat HD tuners, but does down resolution on TV2 output? Meaning that you can record two HD programs and can be shown in full HD glory on TV1 out but SD res on TV2 out?
> 
> Alt


If I get what you're trying to say, yes - that's the way it'll work. You can record and view HD channels on SD sets conencted to TV2 out that are downconverted.


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## Jacob S

Mike Richardson said:


> That doesn't make any sense? Apple does not believe in the software or DISH does not believe in the software?


In other words, its like when Apple thought that looks mattered more than the software, at least thats what I heard and Bill Gates believed in the software that made the difference and thats why he created his own company. I would think if software would matter more then Dish Network would spend more towards that or hire more or better engineers to get the problems fixed and add NBR to the other DVR's.


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## Mike Richardson

Jacob S said:


> In other words, its like when Apple thought that looks mattered more than the software, at least thats what I heard and Bill Gates believed in the software that made the difference and thats why he created his own company. I would think if software would matter more then Dish Network would spend more towards that or hire more or better engineers to get the problems fixed and add NBR to the other DVR's.


Apple has great software. For a long time Apple had beige machines just like everyone else and then they came out with the more stylish machines and then with Mac OS X... so they have both. DISH seems to have neither.


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## tonyp56

Why is everyone even wasting their breath on this subject. Do any of you really believe that the 942 will have the features advertised? Hell my 811 still doesn't have everything and I've almost had it for a year. Do you really think Dish is going to think ahead six months let alone 1,2,3,4 years? All Dish cares about is making some money, if they can get a few thousand of these paper weights sold for $800 a pop, then they've made some money. They will most likely sell half a million before they even have to worry about MPEG4! (maybe, if the 921 is any example of their selling capabilities then maybe not) Which will bring them lots of money, and then they can make even more money off of those people who bought one to upgrade them so that they can see some new HD channels, and because those people have went 1,2,3,4 years without anything new, they will be willing to shell out more money for another crappy Dish receiver. I relize that receiver are obsolete the day after they are released, but if Dish expects me to pay close to $1000 for a receiver, the day I get it, it better be able to do EVERYTHING that they advertise it to do, and it should at least be able to give me one year of viewing ability of any new channels that they add, and yes, even if they go to MPEG 4 older receivers will still be able to view Dish's channels, for a while atleast, but they won't be able to view new channels in MPEG 4, and at the very least the 942 should be able too!


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## kstevens

Jacob S said:


> In other words, its like when Apple thought that looks mattered more than the software, at least thats what I heard and Bill Gates believed in the software that made the difference and thats why he created his own company. I would think if software would matter more then Dish Network would spend more towards that or hire more or better engineers to get the problems fixed and add NBR to the other DVR's.


This is pretty unintelligible. Apple DOES believe in the software. Their operating system (and other software) is the best in the world (a number of mags including PC mags agree to this). They just made marketing mistakes. Completely different circumstance than E*.

Ken


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## Altaman

I read somewhere, that the DVI port has since been upgraded to HDMI, but no mention of whether they put a S-Video port in! The only thing I see from the old photo's is composite and coax, anyone know if S-Video is available for TV2?

Alt


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## Jacob S

When I was referring to Apple I was referring to not how good their software was but when they used to think more about the design of the computer than the software, back in the 80's. I know that their software is much more reliable now than Windows even is (along with Linux). I've heard about where Bill Gates thought that software was important while Apple thought that the looks of the machines was more important back in the 80's but things have changed since then and I hope things change for Dish Network as well.


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## Hall

Scott Greczkowski said:


> I asked this at yesterday's Echostar Press Conference to Mark Jackson and was told flat out that the 942 is NOT upgradable to MPEG4.


 I thought it was normal *not* to believe what they tell you ??


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## Mark Lamutt

No, there won't be an svideo port for TV2 out.


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## SimpleSimon

Hall said:


> I thought it was normal *not* to believe what they tell you ??


 Which in this case would mean that it WILL be upgradable.

No - this is ONE case where I WILL believe E* - actually, I'll believe them whenever they say they will NOT do something, and NEVER believe them otherwise until I actually see it happen.


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## Altaman

So for tuner two we have coax out, composite out , no S-video out, no component out. My old 5 yr old Toshiba has both s-video and component, why could these have not been put in to allow a half decent picture on TV2?

This makes the TV2 output virually useless if you are using it on an SD big screen TV!

Alt


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## Mark Lamutt

TV2 is meant to be wired to another television somewhere else in your house, not in the same location as your HDTV. And, as RF coax and composite video distribution amps are more common than svideo distribution amps, that's they way they went. That said, I also wish they had put an svideo out for TV2 as well.


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## ebaltz

Is anyone going to actually buy this machine, knowing what we know about the 921 issues and the MPEG4 stuff? I mean I guess they will be marketing to newbies. If they want anyone to have it, they need to make it a lease. I don't see where it does a whole lot more than the 921.


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## Altaman

ebaltz said:


> Is anyone going to actually buy this machine, knowing what we know about the 921 issues and the MPEG4 stuff? I mean I guess they will be marketing to newbies. If they want anyone to have it, they need to make it a lease. I don't see where it does a whole lot more than the 921.


Well here in Canada, I can say that E* will sell their 942's to BEV who have a pent up demand for a HD-PVR. We are in a much better position in that we don't have to provide local to each and every area, hence there does not seem to be much need for BEV to be concerned with MPeg-4. They may look to it in the future, but for now we seem to be safe. Hence if the american public does not buy the 942, they can sell it to the Canadians...

Ever here the story/see the show about the Avro Aero? 

Alt


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## Jacob S

Perhaps many people should just stick with the cheaper receivers until HD televisions dominate the market and they get the prices of the HD DVR's dropped and get the connections to output to these new HD televisions and well as make other needed improvements. I have already decided to wait for my HD television purchase until the prices dropped and they have but since then these other HD televisions have come out such as the lower priced LCD's that still have a ways to go to go down in price. More HD television is the big thing that needs to happen then everything else should fall into place.


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## ibooksrule

Jacob S said:


> Is Dish Network another "Apple" in that they dont believe in the software? I guess that would make DirecTv the "Orange". Don't this sound peachy.


i happen to think mac or apple has 10 if not 100xs the software windows does. and they have kick butt machines that look cool too to add to it. i have always thought apple had the better software and hardware but people believe hype they believe the commercials on tv from windows and well now if windows doesnt get thier act together apple just might rule again. same for dish and directv if they dont get it together for HD content. Voom is over here allready with 40 HD channels while d and E have less then 10. voom is adding more in march in upwords of 70 HD channels. Granted some are not the best but still it sure is better then D or E plus at least they give you a free OTA shoot E or D wont even look at it they would laugh you right off the page if you suggested they pay for an OTA. I think D and E and voom all have room to grow and really E and D need more HD content. D has been saying for months now they would get TNTHD and they have yet to get it. its all talk all hype. At least XM and SIRIUS are moving up and have the right attitude and Apple with thier iPod now i also think D and E and Voom can all do great things too but they seem to just lag and drag thier feet because D and E dont care. Voom is getting better they do care about thier customers they really do but they need better csrs is the problem


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## fjerina

So what will happen with us 921 users out here when Dish puts their HD programming in MPEG4? Are we forced to buy a new receiver or what?


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## BobMurdoch

Still too early to tell, but I'm sure there will be some sort of E* subsidized upgrade path. Not as easy as the 8PSK upgrade module was, but they need to do something or they will have a LOT of ticked off whales on their hands.


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## Ron Barry

ibooksrule said:


> i happen to think mac or apple has 10 if not 100xs the software windows does. and they have kick butt machines that look cool too to add to it. i have always thought apple had the better software and hardware but people believe hype they believe the commercials on tv from windows and well now if windows doesnt get thier act together apple just might rule again. same for dish and directv if they dont get it together for HD content.


You always got to love the one that roots for the underdog. As to the quantity of software, no way does apple have 10 or even 100x the software Windows does. Windows rules the desktop and will for some time. (By the way, I am not a big fan of windows and have a mac, used linux, Java Developer, and my roots are in OS/2). It is not about whose environment rocks or is the most powerful. It has a lot about perception and what is available. If you statement is true, everyone would be running to Mac and that just is not the case.

As to the Voom analogy. Same thing.. There is more to TV content than who has the most HD channels. If a company as a 100 HD channels that nobody wants to watch people may give it a spin, but jump back when they find their favorite channels are not available. Not saying this is Voom's case. My point is Content is king in the DBS space. That is the one of the biggest reasons people go with certain choices. That is why I am with Dish. The other considerations like Reliability, Receiver featues, price come into play but usually are not weighed as heavy by most people.

There is always going to be the techy people where features rule and they love gadgets, but that is not common america. Voom has and uphill battle to fight. Dish has a lot of things to fix to stay competitive, and DirectTV needs to eventually become profitable. Most People will go where the content matches their needs, if a company can't meed their needs no amount of HD channels well help.

In my opinion content is king in the DBS world just has perception is king in the PC world. Time will tell but my guess is eventually Voom will get bought by one of the other guys.


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## Mike Richardson

WeeJavaDude said:


> You always got to love the one that roots for the underdog. As to the quantity of software, no way does apple have 10 or even 100x the software Windows does. Windows rules the desktop and will for some time. (By the way, I am not a big fan of windows and have a mac, used linux, Java Developer, and my roots are in OS/2). It is not about whose environment rocks or is the most powerful. It has a lot about perception and what is available. If you statement is true, everyone would be running to Mac and that just is not the case.


It's not just about quantity, it's also quality - Windows might have 27 free disk space erasers, most of which are probably written in Visual Basic and have basically the same features, while the Mac might only have a few - but that's fine, as long as one suits your needs.


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## Ron Barry

Mike Richardson said:


> It's not just about quantity, it's also quality - Windows might have 27 free disk space erasers, most of which are probably written in Visual Basic and have basically the same features, while the Mac might only have a few - but that's fine, as long as one suits your needs.


Not disagreeing and Not getting into any argument of Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux. I was addressing the point the previous person mad about Mac having more apps than windows. Just not true. I am by no means a Windows advocate. If I was I would not be such a Java supporter.


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## Tweeterhead

According to January 10th Charlie chat they said the 942 WOULD be available for lease. THANK GOD cause I wasn't sure I wanted to beta test something else for 750.00 out of pocket.

They also said it would be compatible with future mpeg 4 technology


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## Jacob S

I dont remember hearing that the 942 would be MPEG-4 compatible, I thought I heard just the opposite, that it would NOT work with future MPEG-4 broadcasts.

I think they should swap out the HD DVR's first to MPEG-4 then after everything is swapped out turn all MPEG-2 HD off. After that they should convert all the international channels to MPEG-4 since there are not as many international customers then convert the premiums to MPEG-4 and work their way down until everything is MPEG-4. This would allow them time to gain more room little by little without affecting as many customers and have a multi-step process on getting consumers switched over to MPEG-4. When they have to switch all the SD DVR's over to MPEG-4 they should make it HD compatible.


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## Tweeterhead

I rewatched the chat this evening, I don't know why I thought the 942 would be mpeg4 compliant. I was probably dozing off during Mr Low Carbs and had a dream about mpeg4 reality.

My bad


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## James Long

Charlie pretty much said that MPEG4 components were not available at all until mid year. They could not put MPEG4 in any receiver until the components are in full production.

Voom receivers are allegedly software upgradable to MPEG4. That has yet to be proven. 

JL


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## Jacob S

And when the MPEG-4 component does become available its going to be at its maximum price. They will probably have it in short supply because they know that the prices on the components would drop. I am surprised that they are even going to release a 942 seeing how its not MPEG-4. Perhaps they just want rid of what they already had manufactured.


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## Mike D-CO5

I think that Charlie had no intention of going to mpeg4 till Rupert & Directv forced his hand. That is why his latest receivers are mpeg2 instead of mpeg4. This is the reason why all the receivers at the CES were still mpeg2. 

That is why there are no hd plans for Dish set in stone. He is playing catch up trying to formulate a plan to keep up with Directv 's plan. This is why he is adding all that bandwith up there by leasing space on the AMC16 and the AMC15 and he is adding all those weird numbered sat slots up there. Then add the FCC decision to go to one dish for all locals , and you have a lot of pressure applied there. The new echostar 10 sat that is going to 110 was most likely not going to be used for the one dish solution originally. Now they have no choice to move all those top 36 markets to the spot beams on this satellite . 

I doubt that Dish even has a mpeg4 receiver or even has a mpeg4 stream working like Directv does. This is why Charlie is so quiet about everything and has said that it will all happen this Fall. Hopefully then the Voom acquisition will be complete and he can add all those national channels that Voom already has to Dish customers. Then all he has to do is come up with hd locals and he will not only keep up with Directv but most likely pass them . I think that Directv will pull out in front for now but when all is said and done, if Charlie can get Voom and it's hd movie channels , etc, then he will have more national hd then Directv does. 

I hate to see how they are going to do the swap out to mpeg4 for all hd customers. I imagine this will take longer than till the end of the year to get a new hd mpeg4 dvr receiver.


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## James Long

Mike D-CO5 said:


> if Charlie can get Voom and it's hd movie channels ,


Voom's biggest asset is 11 transponders. Sure they have "21 channels" of unique HD, the same couple of movies playing all day long on each channel. The other 15 HD channels (including 4 west feeds and 5 E* already has) are nothing that E* cannot get without Voom.

If Voom is such a good idea why are they floundering?

JL


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## jeslevine

justalurker said:


> Voom's biggest asset is 11 transponders. Sure they have "21 channels" of unique HD, the same couple of movies playing all day long on each channel. The other 15 HD channels (including 4 west feeds and 5 E* already has) are nothing that E* cannot get without Voom.
> 
> If Voom is such a good idea why are they floundering?
> 
> JL


I had nothing to lose, free hardware and installation, and a receiver that is relatively bug free. In addition every output on that receiver is active, which is not the way dish designs it.

Why are they floundering, because it is a tough business, HD televisions are still too much money for most people, but if the price starts coming down, and they can hang on who knows


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## Jacob S

Maybe Dish Network is playing it smart after all by waiting to launch their HD products in mass because of thie high cost of HD components at this time and also they know that most do not have HD televisions and that there is not enough content to make it worthwhile. When it does come down in price and is more mainstream I can see Dish Network coming out with their MPEG-4 HD product at maybe a lower price and being able to be more flexible and releasing HD packages for the consumers to purchase.


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## tnsprin

Mike D-CO5 said:


> I think that Charlie had no intention of going to mpeg4 till Rupert & Directv forced his hand. That is why his latest receivers are ...


All the current Hd and even the 942, have were designed more than two years ago. Mpeg4 standards were still in flux, and no chips to do it (they don't want to use software), were not available. Although he may watch Rupert, note that he actually announced the MPEG4 first. After Voom that is.


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## James Long

tnsprin said:


> All the current Hd and even the 942, have were designed more than two years ago. Mpeg4 standards were still in flux, and no chips to do it (they don't want to use software), were not available. Although he may watch Rupert, note that he actually announced the MPEG4 first. After Voom that is.


When Voom announced MPEG4 (Oct 2003?) it was that mystic new format that may work eventually, but not today. Voom had fits getting their MPEG2 boxes working right.
When E* announced MPEG4 (to shareholders, IIRC) it was still a long way off. This is the direction we will be going ...
When D* announced MPEG4 (at CES) it was a working "first MPEG4 transmission". How long it will take to get that to customers is another question.

Who needs MPEG4?
Voom announced it as an answer to their limited bandwidth. If they are ever going to take the next step and offer locals they are going to need to squeeze a lot in to their 11 transponders. MPEG4 will do that. But to do locals they need cash to set up uplink centers in the appropriate cities. They don't have the cash so locals are out for now. They also seem to have all of the HD available ... 15 channels by others and 21 in house channels. So unless there is a boom in HD production or cash for new uplinks Voom does not need MPEG4.

Dish plans on using MPEG4 to put more channels on 110. Their original plan of having HD on SuperDish seems to be gone. Their need is strong, but until they get E10 up they don't have the space to work with new HD. It seems like good timing for them ... they have a chance to develop the receivers and the technology while they await the space to launch the channels. BTW: I suspect that some of the test channels on 148 may be MPEG4. Justa thought.

DirecTV needs MPEG4 to go on. They want to use their new ka satellites for digital locals and don't want to get caught out by not launching what they have promised. They also want to beat Dish and grab the second wave of HD adopters. The full slate of other channels makes E* and D* better than V*. While V*'s internal content gives them a certain edge, D* can win by providing the HD people want along side the SD that they like.

I can see why DirecTV was the first to publicly launch an MPEG4 test channel. They need MPEG4 the most. But they still have to get the receivers to market. All three need to do that.

JL


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## Jacob S

How about something better than MPEG-4 even? Is there something else out there that will give a bit of an improvement over MPEG-4 that would provide more channels than what MPEG-4 would?


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## Mike D-CO5

Mpeg 10 maybe?:lol:


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## StevenZ

MPEG 7 is more about metadata than better compression:
http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/standards/mpeg-7/mpeg-7.htm

And MPEG 21 is more about interoperability across different devices:
http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/standards/mpeg-21/mpeg-21.htm

Start at the home page for lots more:
http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/


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## normang

I think the worry about MPEG4 is premature. If anyone were ready to do it, they would be releasing hardware capable of doing it now. I think that were not going to see any hardware with MPEG4 for a couple years and they are not going to shelve current hardware until they are actually ready to do something with that technology.


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## P Smith

I've seen on other site Dishnetwork spooling beta software for DP922, not DP942.
Could be the fact reflect a reality of new DVR - 2 satellite tuners+2 OTA tuners ?


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## Jacob S

If so then how many dang MPEG-2 HD DVR's are they going to come out with seeing that an MPEG-4 HD DVR is coming out? How stupid can they be?


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## normang

Jacob S said:


> If so then how many dang MPEG-2 HD DVR's are they going to come out with seeing that an MPEG-4 HD DVR is coming out? How stupid can they be?


Jacob, if your running a business and you know that in the future that you are going to have to change various things about your business, your just going to toss ALL your current development and inventory out the window for something new that only came out in the past couple years, only now is it considered a direction to go? If Dish ran things your way, there would be no Dish.


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## Jacob S

Its different if they already have an x number of receivers that they have already manufactured to be released to the public but to continue developement of a receiver and to choose to manufacture the newer one is another story. They could implement some of the work that they have made into making them MPEG-4 compatable.


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## normang

Jacob S said:


> Its different if they already have an x number of receivers that they have already manufactured to be released to the public but to continue developement of a receiver and to choose to manufacture the newer one is another story. They could implement some of the work that they have made into making them MPEG-4 compatable.


Jacob, your making a "really big" assumption that the use of MPEG4 is even in any development stage at this point.. Whereas products that are appearing "now" have probably been in development for months or more.


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## srrobinson2

Who cares what they are advertising. Remember "Dishwire" for our 921s?


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## jeslevine

srrobinson2 said:


> Who cares what they are advertising. Remember "Dishwire" for our 921s?


and this time I will wait for at least a year before jumping in


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## DVDDAD

I couldn't find the info anywhere in this thread. Does the 942 have a screensaver? My 508 (before it had the power down function and before the 921 was available) burned the DVR menu into my RP HDTV set. It's only visable in very light pictures, but it's there. I'm more careful with the 921 and it's menu's aren't as bright. I really hope the 942 has an ACTIVE screensaver. Not the screensaver that was promised in the 921 and still not present.


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## BFG

yes it will have the bouncing dish logo that happens when you put it in standby or a couple of hours after no use


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