# 921 software update anytime soon?



## kls (Nov 27, 2003)

Mark,

Last week(I think) you said you were still running the same software as the rest of us - L145, has Dish sent out a new beta yet - if so can you give us any hints? 

I keep hoping they will because if the official beta testers are making progress then the rest of us can look forward to new software sometime soonish.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I promise you guys will know just as soon as I know something. I've been talking extensively with the beta team and the developers about other issues the last couple of days, but haven't heard when the next beta will be available.


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## Allen Noland (Apr 23, 2002)

They said on the chat that an update will be released next week.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Beta testers are supposed to get the new software next week for testing. If all goes well with it, it might make it by next Friday. But, if we find something very wrong, don't count on the new software next week.

Just got this info this afternoon.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

If this latest defect repair contains any further fixes for solitaire, I'm going to have to scream. Are these type of non-signal related defects the only defects they are capable of producing in their labs?

If the software developers are really in England, can they even receive the satellite signals at all, or are they relying entirely on simulations and fake feeds? What a nightmare; no wonder they can't get US ATSC OTA to work correctly.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Software fixes this time around don't have anything to do with Solitaire, or any of the other fluff stuff. I have a list of things that's being worked on, but I can't release it yet. On the tech forum, it was said that the new release will focus on stability issues (rebooting, OTA, etc.). I'd love to be more specific than that, but not yet.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Thank you, Mark. I appreciate your honesty and general good nature in dealing with these inquiries and comments.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

I try to do the best I can. I am very aware how frustrating the 921 is in its current state, especially considering how much money has been spent in it.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Slordak said:


> If this latest defect repair contains any further fixes for solitaire, I'm going to have to scream. Are these type of non-signal related defects the only defects they are capable of producing in their labs?
> 
> If the software developers are really in England, can they even receive the satellite signals at all, or are they relying entirely on simulations and fake feeds? What a nightmare; no wonder they can't get US ATSC OTA to work correctly.


Software developers in ENGLAND !
Therein lays the answer to all the 921 problems
I mean, I love my home land, but be honest, we are all a bunch of (albeit brilliant) slacker drunks, with funny accents. I'll guarantee that faced with being one binary bit away from deciphering the code of a major bug, or buggering off down pub with your mates for a skin full and hopes of a good Rodgering shag, the pub always wins.
Hell they're all down pub at lunch time never mind quitting time.
Seriously, no way a "deadline" back home means anything like a deadline in the states.
Did no one watch the office? That's really what its like.
Well better get used to reality; they grew up on gallons of beer and the BBC. My hopes and dreams of a 921 are over. I'm off out for a pint to drown me sorrows &#8230;.


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## fjerina (Dec 20, 2003)

My God, is this guy for real???


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Unfortunately, he is VERY close to truth.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Throwbot, I've talked on the phone to the developers at the office at Eldon at all hours of the night there. This week, it was when it was just after 5am there, and they were still there from the day before.

Your generalization may be applicable to most Brits, but I know for a fact that it doesn't apply to this team. They care about the 921 and getting it right much more than we do.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Slordak said:


> If the software developers are really in England, can they even receive the satellite signals at all, or are they relying entirely on simulations and fake feeds? What a nightmare; no wonder they can't get US ATSC OTA to work correctly.


I used to work in a maintenance shop that maintained and repaired air traffic control communications equipment. You would be surprised at some of the test equipment available. We could simulate just about anything and that included voice, data and navigational aids. No airplanes needed.


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## Kagato (Jul 1, 2002)

I had the oppertunity to take training at Hewlet Packard's software developement centre in Pinewood England several years ago. (The company I worked with at the time liked to have their developers work closely with other developers, not corporate trainers.) The lunch room at HP Pinewood has a full bar that opens at 4pm. 

The thing about the UK, and europe in general is you can't really force people to work the long hours like an american company does. Too many unions, labor laws, etc. On the other hand I'm sure eldon is an expert in DVB. But honestly, if you want good quick code you want the US. Paying for code in the UK is no cheaper than the US that's for sure.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

Uhhh, my 921 works pretty good...


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> Throwbot, I've talked on the phone to the developers at the office at Eldon at all hours of the night there. This week, it was when it was just after 5am there, and they were still there from the day before.
> 
> Your generalization may be applicable to most Brits, but I know for a fact that it doesn't apply to this team. They care about the 921 and getting it right much more than we do.


Well Mark, cover me in egg and flour and bake me for 14 minutes, seems we Brits maybe have started to be responsible , last time that happened we sailed toward France and didn't stop till the Empire covered the earth!


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Throwbot said:


> Well Mark, cover me in egg and flour and bake me for 14 minutes, seems we Brits maybe have started to be responsible , last time that happened we sailed toward France and didn't stop till the Empire covered the earth!


So, would that make you Bakedbot, or BakedBreadedBot? :lol:


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Chris Blount said:


> I used to work in a maintenance shop that maintained and repaired air traffic control communications equipment. You would be surprised at some of the test equipment available. We could simulate just about anything and that included voice, data and navigational aids. No airplanes needed.


It's not the same. As someone in the telecommunications industry, I can tell you that we often have test suites that pass fully on our internal equipment and simulators, but that wind up failing for various reasons when out in the field. There's really no way to account for all of the factors out there (e.g. different equipment configurations, setups, modes of operation, etc.) without doing lots of actual field testing.


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

Mark Lamutt said:


> So, would that make you Bakedbot, or BakedBreadedBot? :lol:


Instead of of Throwbot he's a Turnoverbot.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Jim Parker said:


> Instead of of Throwbot he's a Turnoverbot.


Okay Okay, Funny funny, I only did not laugh out loud because I was afraid if I did, my head might have fallen off.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Unless you're arguing with him.

Then he's a ..... BattleBot!

Damn, I MISS that show. Something about technological mayhem that was inherently satisfying. 

Hey, there's an idea.... We have to make death dealing machines from old receivers and dishes. Revenge of the DissedPlayer, or Death Race 5000, or LoNBot-omy, or......

Sorry, time to adjust my meds again.....


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## Jim Parker (Aug 12, 2003)

We do amuse ourselves, don't we?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Gotta get through the day somehow...


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Yeah a good chat with you lot and death loses its sting. :grin:


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2004)

I just got through working on Pioneer BroadBand's HD PVR, the V4000 that was shown at CES last month and it performs sooooooo much better than this pig of a PVR. The channel changes are 4-6 seconds which sucks. The EPG is the only good interface. The quality of the HD is good.

I would like to get my money back if I could. The V4000 is being testing on TWC currently. http://www.pioneerbroadband.com



kls said:


> Mark,
> 
> Last week(I think) you said you were still running the same software as the rest of us - L145, has Dish sent out a new beta yet - if so can you give us any hints?
> 
> I keep hoping they will because if the official beta testers are making progress then the rest of us can look forward to new software sometime soonish.


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## wcswett (Jan 7, 2003)

UnhappyCamper said:


> I just got through working on Pioneer BroadBand's HD PVR, the V4000 that was shown at CES last month and it performs sooooooo much better than this pig of a PVR. The channel changes are 4-6 seconds which sucks. The EPG is the only good interface. The quality of the HD is good.


I rather like my 921. HD is vapor on my cable service. They may not support HD in my lifetime, much less be compatible with a DVR. They don't even have a web page!

--- WCS


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## Stosh (Dec 16, 2003)

Nice thread, good humor. Throwbot, if you are ever in the southeastern Pennsylvania area, look me up. There’s a micro-brewery near me that makes some world-class beer; I'm sure you would enjoy a pint or two there.

Now, instead of ” 921 software update anytime soon?” my question is, “921 hardware availability anytime soon?”


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## Jerry G (Jul 12, 2003)

Stosh said:


> Now, instead of " 921 software update anytime soon?" my question is, "921 hardware availability anytime soon?"


The prevailing opinion (fairly solid) is that the current bugs are holding up distribution of the 921. If the next software update is fairly solid, that may open up the floodgates for 921 distribution.


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## SpenceJT (Dec 27, 2002)

Jerry G said:


> The prevailing opinion (fairly solid) is that the current bugs are holding up distribution of the 921. If the next software update is fairly solid, that may open up the floodgates for 921 distribution.


Judging by the fact that the 921 has returned to the Sears website, my guess is that the distribution channels are expected to open up fairly soon. I am of course having my opinion swayed by the hope that I will soon get an order filled from one of the two waiting lists that I am on. :lol:


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I agree that simulated test signals in England are lacking real world conditions. 

The reason I have much less problems with my OTA as compared to others is that I have extremely solid signals being visibly in sight of the tower farm and use an outdoor antenna to boot. All signals are flat out pegging the meter. I wonder how much testing Eldon labs does with it's simulation with respect to multipath and fluctuating signals???? I'd bet there testing is, so far, onl;y with lab signal generated perfet ATSC output, solid as a rock! They probably never even considered what happens when an RF signal takes a nose dive for a few seconds or a multipath generated because an airplane flys through a UHF path. Mark, tell me they have these real world simulations in play and I'll feel better too.


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## Mike Richardson (Jun 12, 2003)

UnhappyCamper said:


> I just got through working on Pioneer BroadBand's HD PVR, the V4000 that was shown at CES last month and it performs sooooooo much better than this pig of a PVR. The channel changes are 4-6 seconds which sucks. The EPG is the only good interface. The quality of the HD is good.
> 
> I would like to get my money back if I could. The V4000 is being testing on TWC currently. http://www.pioneerbroadband.com


That site shows the Pioneer as only having a 120GB drive which would store only several hours of HD I believe.


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## Throwbot (Dec 24, 2003)

Stosh said:


> Nice thread, good humor. Throwbot, if you are ever in the southeastern Pennsylvania area, look me up. There's a micro-brewery near me that makes some world-class beer; I'm sure you would enjoy a pint or two there.
> 
> Now, instead of " 921 software update anytime soon?" my question is, "921 hardware availability anytime soon?"


Will do Stosh, used to have a mate called Stosh, never did find out why we called him Stosh. If you are "the" Stosh, then I want to apologize right now in front of all these good people for the 1975 "incident" with the live weasel, the box of soap powder, and your girlfriend. Sorry about that. No hard feelings ?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

DonLandis said:


> I wonder how much testing Eldon labs does with it's simulation with respect to multipath and fluctuating signals???? I'd bet there testing is, so far, onl;y with lab signal generated perfet ATSC output, solid as a rock! They probably never even considered what happens when an RF signal takes a nose dive for a few seconds or a multipath generated because an airplane flys through a UHF path. Mark, tell me they have these real world simulations in play and I'll feel better too.


Don,

I asked that exact (almost word for word) question back in December the day after I got my 921 and started testing. Eldon definitely does test and simulate perfect signals, absolutely terrible signals, simulated multipath, pretty much you name it.

This was the first thing that I came up with when I found the original OTA bug.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Multipath with a line of site satellite signal is not going to be too bad. The real issues come from the terrestrial broadcast. Simulators can make a multipath signal, simply delay the signal, attenuate it, invert it, then add it back to the original. The problem is that it doesn't necessarily simulate the real world signal that well. Different surfaces (reflectors) attenuate the signals differently, then there is the case of multiple reflectors, etc.. It is hard to simulate that kind of stuff. That is what I am trying to do in my current project, only with a BPSK satellite signal.

I was under the impression that the tracking loops and data demodulation was all on that ATSC card in the 921, that this stuff was done in hardware and that the 921 simply had to read the data stream through the PCI bus. It is possible that you could change the firmware on the card, I was just assuming that the card was maybe a 3rd party product that they bought and put in the 921. You can buy them for your PC, no reason the 921 couldn't have bought a working card to cut costs, testing, and increase reliability.


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