# AM21 - Preorder @ SolidSignal.com



## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

They have the price listed at $99. The gentleman that I spoke with said that if the price is lower than $99 when it is released they will honor the lower price.

I know a lot of people have been salivating at the chance to pre-order, so I thought I would pass this along.

*Product Link*


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Wasn't it announced at $59?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Carl Spock said:


> Wasn't it announced at $59?


Yes it was
Doesn't mean that something hasn't changed.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

Carl Spock said:


> Wasn't it announced at $59?


thats what I thought, but the sales rep I spoke to at SS said he thought it was going to be $99. Like I said though, he said if DirecTV launches it at a lower price, they will honor the lower price.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

of course the SWM8's that started showing up are 400$ too...


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## Spanky_Partain (Dec 7, 2006)

At least when you call Directv they tell you that the AM21 will be available in late March for $59.00. No pre-order available from Directv.


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## GhostEvo (Feb 27, 2008)

$59.00 would be a nice price point. It would also be nice if they just ad the HD locals in my area.


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

Looks to me like they are marking it up to a list of $129.00 and then giving a discount to $99 when it should be around $60 if all goes well. How many would you like for that price? It's a retail trick thing!


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## GirkMonster (Mar 20, 2007)

does it also have a USB output?


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

MIAMI1683 said:


> Looks to me like they are marking it up to a list of $129.00 and then giving a discount to $99 when it should be around $60 if all goes well. How many would you like for that price? It's a retail trick thing!


they admitted they have no idea what the price is going to be... they are just making a safe guess because if they list it at $25 and DirecTV announces it as $75, what are the going to do with the hundreds of pre-orders that were placed under the assumption they were getting it for $25. This way they have the ability to charge you a lower price if it does turn out to be $59, and unless something major changes, they don't have to worry about undercharging.


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## mjones73 (Jun 20, 2006)

GirkMonster said:


> does it also have a USB output?


It uses USB to attach to the HR21. It can't be used to hook to other devices such as a computer.


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## samberger (Jan 8, 2006)

So you still need an OTA antenna for this, right?


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## Mike728 (Oct 29, 2007)

samberger said:


> So you still need an OTA antenna for this, right?


 For an OTA tuner - Yes!


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

Is this going to scan for OTA channels? Or will it rely on D* OTA database base on your ZIP like the HR20 does?


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

Indiana627 said:


> Is this going to scan for OTA channels? Or will it rely on D* OTA database base on your ZIP like the HR20 does?


i think it's safe to assume it will function in the same exact manner as an HR20 with an integrated OTA tuner.


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## PeterB (Jul 25, 2002)

mjones73 said:


> It uses USB to attach to the HR21. It can't be used to hook to other devices such as a computer.


At least at first. :up_to_som


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## cwaters (Feb 9, 2008)

For $50 I'd likely buy one. $99 is too rich. The end result is I'm a grumpy customer because I still don't have all my local digital channels on my TV (HR21). I'll still be sending them my check monthly, but I'm grumpy about it.
CW


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

cwaters said:



> For $50 I'd likely buy one. $99 is too rich. The end result is I'm a grumpy customer because I still don't have all my local digital channels on my TV (HR21). I'll still be sending them my check monthly, but I'm grumpy about it.
> CW


yeah, if that ends up being the actual price.... i agree, it's a bit steep.


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## Indiana627 (Nov 18, 2005)

Indiana627 said:


> Is this going to scan for OTA channels? Or will it rely on D* OTA database base on your ZIP like the HR20 does?





byron said:


> i think it's safe to assume it will function in the same exact manner as an HR20 with an integrated OTA tuner.




Does anyone know the reason behind D* OTA database approach instead of letting the HR20 scan for OTA?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

byron said:


> i think it's safe to assume it will function in the same exact manner as an HR20 with an integrated OTA tuner.


This is a safe bet ..


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## Hansen (Jan 1, 2006)

Can you use the govenment coupon for OTA STB to pay for part of the AM21?


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

Indiana627 said:


> Does anyone know the reason behind D* OTA database approach instead of letting the HR20 scan for OTA?


no idea.... but that horse has already been beaten by many people, myself included.



Hansen said:


> Can you use the govenment coupon for OTA STB to pay for part of the AM21?


I believe someone asked that in another AM21 thread and the consensus was no, you can't use the coupon for the AM21.


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## DBEX (Jan 29, 2007)

Hansen said:


> Can you use the govenment coupon for OTA STB to pay for part of the AM21?


Good point! But I doubt it...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Hansen said:


> Can you use the govenment coupon for OTA STB to pay for part of the AM21?


Absolutely not ..


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## pnyberg (Oct 31, 2007)

from SS's product description:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AM21

"The DIRECTV Off-Air Tuner is the perfect solution for adding outstanding DVR functionality to terristrial broadcast transmissions."

Maybe the "terrestrial" version is $59. $99 is way too high for a feature they took away, IMHO.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

byron said:


> they admitted they have no idea what the price is going to be... they are just making a safe guess because if they list it at $25 and DirecTV announces it as $75, what are the going to do with the hundreds of pre-orders that were placed under the assumption they were getting it for $25. This way they have the ability to charge you a lower price if it does turn out to be $59, and unless something major changes, they don't have to worry about undercharging.


This is a smart move by Solid Signal IMHO.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

Radio Enginerd said:


> This is a smart move by Solid Signal IMHO.


yup. i personally don't need one (b/c I have 2x HR20s & 1x H20, both with integrated OTA tuners), but I have friends/family that do and I sent this to them first thing this morning. by getting the pre-order up early, they will get a lot of orders just because this is a product that people have been waiting for quite some time now.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

pnyberg said:


> $99 is way too high for a feature they took away, IMHO.


I realize there was a period of crossover where my statement is not completely accurate. However, for the most part, the HR20 was $299 and now the HR21 is $199. It's pretty much a wash considering.

That aside, folks will have to make a choice as to whether or not they want to add OTA when this becomes available. Some will and some won't.


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## jjohns (Sep 15, 2007)

You going to get home and find out your leasing this too?


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

Radio Enginerd said:


> This is a smart move by Solid Signal IMHO.


Ok well we have a new 08 M3 on the lot today with no price tag, (we really do) let's mark it at 80k, just cause we don't really know how much it's going to be ( it's a test car). Cool pre-order now for 80k and " we'll see where it goes" (it should be less btw) That's the way I see it. Sorry for seeming synical. It's still not a great idea imo My understanding is it won't scan either. it will be nice to have when it's released though.

D-


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

MIAMI1683 said:


> Ok well we have a new 08 M3 on the lot today with no price tag, (we really do) let's mark it at 80k, just cause we don't really know how much it's going to be ( it's a test car). Cool pre-order now for 80k and " we'll see where it goes" (it should be less btw) That's the way I see it. Sorry for seeming synical. It's still not a great idea imo My understanding is it won't scan either. it will be nice to have when it's released though.
> 
> D-


ok, cynical. 

seriously though... solid signal can't sell something for MSRP when MSRP doesn't exist (seeing as how D* hasn't provided anyone with the actual price). they are taking a chance and providing early adopters a chance to ensure that they get a product that might be very hard to find for the first couple of months after it launches. if i needed one (or more), i would jump on this in a heartbeat. keep in mind that if by some chance D* decides to sell it for $149, and you preordered in advance from solid signal at $99, you're getting the unit for $99.


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## Mike728 (Oct 29, 2007)

jjohns said:


> You going to get home and find out your leasing this too?


Yeah, and it will probably reset your commitment date, too.


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## BK EH (Oct 3, 2005)

I wish they would quit calling the damn technology "off-air" (or off the air). It's over the air. If it was off-air, then nothing would be transmitting!

/rant


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

#1) I do not know if it the unit will be leased or not, or just tie to your lease with the HR21... as the AM21 will be pretty much useless without an HR21

#2) It will *NOT* extend your commitement.


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## smassey22180 (Mar 31, 2007)

What is the HDMI for?


Box Contents
Cables HDMI USB and attached power cable


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

MIAMI1683 said:


> Ok well we have a new 08 M3 on the lot today with no price tag, (we really do) let's mark it at 80k, just cause we don't really know how much it's going to be ( it's a test car). Cool pre-order now for 80k and " we'll see where it goes" (it should be less btw) That's the way I see it. Sorry for seeming synical. It's still not a great idea imo My understanding is it won't scan either. it will be nice to have when it's released though.
> 
> D-


I've worked with Solid Signal and they're "good people" so perhaps I am bias. It is what it is, like it or not.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

smassey22180 said:


> What is the HDMI for?
> 
> Box Contents
> Cables HDMI USB and attached power cable


Typo from the original CES document.

There is no HDMI cable included.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

smassey22180 said:


> What is the HDMI for?
> 
> Box Contents
> Cables HDMI USB and attached power cable


Typo. Saw this on the CES docs as well. It does NOT have HDMI on it. USB and Power only.


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Typo from the original CES document.
> 
> There is no HDMI cable included.


Wow, you are quick!


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

Radio Enginerd said:


> I've worked with Solid Signal and they're "good people" so perhaps I am bias. It is what it is, like it or not.


i agree. I use them for all of my OTA/D*/cabling/tools purchases. top notch service.


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

byron said:


> ok, cynical.
> 
> seriously though... solid signal can't sell something for MSRP when MSRP doesn't exist (seeing as how D* hasn't provided anyone with the actual price). they are taking a chance and providing early adopters a chance to ensure that they get a product that might be very hard to find for the first couple of months after it launches. if i needed one (or more), i would jump on this in a heartbeat. keep in mind that if by some chance D* decides to sell it for $149, and you preordered in advance from solid signal at $99, you're getting the unit for $99.


 Well there is a msrp usually. (we have one) you don't have to go by it if you don't want to. D* hasn't said actual price your right, but from what has been said I think even at CES the price was $59.99. (it may have been hopeful). I would be a betting man that if D* said the price is $149 solid then SS will come back to joe consumer sorry its $149, but if it goes at $59 then they will say its $99 and here it is. That's business and I get it, but I think early adopters should beware of this practice. Wait for the announcement and then decide. Thats all. and yes CYNICAL sorry I spelled it wrong (not yelling btw)


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

MIAMI1683 said:


> Well there is a msrp usually. (we have one) you don't have to go by it if you don't want to. D* hasn't said actual price your right, but from what has been said I think even at CES the price was $59.99. (it may have been hopeful). I would be a betting man that if D* said the price is $149 solid then SS will come back to joe consumer sorry its $149, but if it goes at $59 then they will say its $99 and here it is. That's business and I get it, but I think early adopters should beware of this practice. Wait for the announcement and then decide. Thats all. and yes CYNICAL sorry I spelled it wrong (not yelling btw)


i'm not trying to convince anyone to pre-order, i am merely passing along information for people who are interested in getting one of these units ASAP. if you think solid signal is trying to make a quick buck off of you and you don't trust them... then by all means don't pre-order.

as i originally stated, i had a verbal conversation with a solid signal rep who said that if DirecTV launches the product at a price higher than $99, pre-orders will not be charged a penny over what they agreed to when they pre-ordered (I believe his words were that solid signal would 'eat the difference'.) also in that conversation he said that if the launch price is less than $99, per-orders will be billed the new price (not $99).


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

And historically... the folks at Solid Signal are pretty good with their pricing.
If the unit is going to be $99... they will charge $99
If it is $59... it is going to be $59... and if you pre-order... they will only charge what the lower price is at the day of shipping.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Solid Signal has been a Solid Citizen here at DBSTalk - both in terms of sharing valuable information, as well as providing access to advance and consistent orders of new equipment.

I have no association to them whatsoever, but those of us who have been here a while all know how advantageous Robert has been to the overall members here. 

He deserves both our patronage and kudos.


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## SAlBO (Jan 6, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Solid Signal has been a Solid Citizen here at DBSTalk - both in terms of sharing valuable information, as well as providing access to advance and consistent orders of new equipment.
> 
> I have no association to them whatsoever, but those of us who have been here a while all know how advantageous Robert has been to the overall members here.
> 
> He deserves both our patronage and kudos.


+1 !!!!!!!!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

SAlBO said:


> +1 !!!!!!!!


I was confusing Robert at Value Electronics and Solid Signal....

Too much multitasking in my posts.

In any case....the comments on Robert are true.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

houskamp said:


> of course the SWM8's that started showing up are 400$ too...


I blame you for the $99.....:grin: 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1376298&postcount=63

as i duck behind the couch....never know what may come flying through cyberspace


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

MicroBeta said:


> I blame you for the $99.....:grin:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1376298&postcount=63
> 
> as i duck behind the couch....never know what may come flying through cyberspace


:grin:


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## BrandonH (Aug 16, 2006)

This is the same company I ordered my HR20 from last week and it arrived very quick. I would highly recommend them. I'm surprised that it seems they still have some left with so many people like me that are insisting on getting an HD DVR with the OTA tuner built in and do not want an HR21.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

MicroBeta said:


> I blame you for the $99.....:grin:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1376298&postcount=63
> 
> as i duck behind the couch....never know what may come flying through cyberspace


They will charge the price determined by DirecTV, which Earl indicated was $59 at the CES....I'm sure we'll get an "official" update.

You might want to also read this...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1475932&postcount=569


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

BrandonH said:


> This is the same company I ordered my HR20 from last week and it arrived very quick. I would highly recommend them. I'm surprised that it seems they still have some left with so many people like me that are insisting on getting an HD DVR with the OTA tuner built in and do not want an HR21.


yeah.. the rep i spoke to told me they have HR20s in stock for people who don't want to deal with the whole AM21 saga.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Solid Signal has been a Solid Citizen here at DBSTalk - both in terms of sharing valuable information, as well as providing access to advance and consistent orders of new equipment.
> 
> I have no association to them whatsoever, but those of us who have been here a while all know how advantageous Robert has been to the overall members here.
> 
> He deserves both our patronage and kudos.


They are an absolutely first rate outfit...from my perspective as a customer.


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## dirchm0628 (Sep 4, 2007)

Will the AM21 work with an HR20? I understand the HR20 has OTA built in but the AM21 has 2 tuners if I remember correctly, and for those of us who D* won't provide local HD this would be a nice feature so I can record two simultaneous OTA programs in HD. As opposed to one in HD and one in SD.


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## Mike728 (Oct 29, 2007)

dirchm0628 said:


> Will the AM21 work with an HR20? I understand the HR20 has OTA built in but the AM21 has 2 tuners if I remember correctly, and for those of us who D* won't provide local HD this would be a nice feature so I can record two simultaneous OTA programs in HD. As opposed to one in HD and one in SD.


Huh? I can record two OTA HD broadcasts at the same time on my HR20.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

dirchm0628 said:


> Will the AM21 work with an HR20? I understand the HR20 has OTA built in but the AM21 has 2 tuners if I remember correctly, and for those of us who D* won't provide local HD this would be a nice feature so I can record two simultaneous OTA programs in HD. As opposed to one in HD and one in SD.


You should be able to record two OTA HD programs at the same time with your HR20. If you cannot, then something is broken. You will not be able to record anything over-the-air in SD as there is no NTSC tuner in the HR20 only ATSC which records digital (typically an HD broadcast).

The HR20 will never support use of the AM21.


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## dirchm0628 (Sep 4, 2007)

Mike728 said:


> Huh? I can record two OTA HD broadcasts at the same time on my HR20.


Honestly I havent tried yet. I just assumed, and yes I know what happens when you assume, that because it only had one input for OTA that it would only record one signal, so I've been recording one program in HD and one in SD. I will definately alter my recordings to try two in HD. Thanks.


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## sbl (Jul 21, 2007)

The HR20 can record two shows from the ATSC input at the same time (assuming nothing is recording from the satellite at that time.) There is an internal splitter and two tuners, which you can see if you look at pictures of the insides of the box.

Everything we have been told is that the combination of HR21 and AM21 will give you the same recording capability as the HR20.


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## Smuuth (Oct 4, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> ...You will not be able to record anything over-the-air in SD as there is no NTSC tuner in the HR20 only ATSC which records digital (typically an HD broadcast).


A minor point: There is still a lot of SD programming being broadcast via ATSC digital OTA.

All HD is digital (ATSC). All digital is not necessarily HD.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Smuuth said:


> A minor point: There is still a lot of SD programming being broadcast via ATSC digital OTA.
> 
> All HD is digital (ATSC). All digital is not necessarily HD.


Picking nits for sure, but most ATSC is HD although much of the programming is upconverted SD  It is possible to transmit only 480i via ATSC digital, but most stations will simply choose to transmit either 1080 or 720 .. which is HD even if it doesn't look that way on the screen.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

So if I add an AM-21 to my HR-20 I'll be able to record four OTA programs at once?

<ducks quickly, sneaks out the back door>


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## waynebtx (Dec 24, 2006)

Smuuth said:


> A minor point: There is still a lot of SD programming being broadcast via ATSC digital OTA.
> 
> All HD is digital (ATSC). All digital is not necessarily HD.


Two of my locals are broadcasting SD via ATSC digital ota.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

sbl said:


> The HR20 can record two shows from the ATSC input at the same time (assuming nothing is recording from the satellite at that time.) There is an internal splitter and two tuners, which you can see if you look at pictures of the insides of the box.
> 
> Everything we have been told is that the combination of HR21 and AM21 will give you the same recording capability as the HR20.


Yup and that is record up to 2 things (3 if you count Video on Demand downloads) and playback one thing at the same time. Those two things can be any of the following combinations:

2 satellite broadcasts
1 satellite broadcast, 1 over-the-air broadcast
2 over-the-air broadcasts


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

waynebtx said:


> Two of my locals are broadcasting SD via ATSC digital ota.


bummer .. well I guess the good news is that it's digital. It should still be snow-free which is good.


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## Button Pusher (Jan 19, 2007)

I agree about Solid Signal being a good company. I have ordered from them before and was treated right.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Throckmorton said:


> So if I add an AM-21 to my HR-20 I'll be able to record four OTA programs at once?
> 
> <ducks quickly, sneaks out the back door>


Nope.


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## transfan (Feb 18, 2008)

Is there really a power cable? I thought I read somewhere that the USB cable powered everything.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

transfan said:


> Is there really a power cable? I thought I read somewhere that the USB cable powered everything.


you are correct, there is no power cable.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

byron said:


> you are correct, there is no power cable.


wrong.. 
power cable from wall goes to AM21, then the AM21 has a cord to the DVR...


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## frederic1943 (Dec 2, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Yup and that is record up to 2 things (3 if you count Video on Demand downloads) and playback one thing at the same time. Those two things can be any of the following combinations:
> 
> 2 satellite broadcasts
> 1 satellite broadcast, 1 over-the-air broadcast
> 2 over-the-air broadcasts


And if your TV has an ATSC tuner you can use a splitter on the antenna cable to go to the DVR and to the TV and record 2 HD shows on the DVR and watch a third HD show on the TV tuner.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

houskamp said:


> wrong..
> power cable from wall goes to AM21, then the AM21 has a cord to the DVR...


Correct, there is no additional wall outlet needed, but the AM21 uses normal AC power. It is powered by removing the power cord from the back of the HR21 and inserting it into the AM21. A power cord tail from the HR21 is then plugged into the back of the HR21.

The other connection from the AM21 to the HR21 is a USB 2.0 connection which will allow the HR21 to talk to the two tuners in the AM21.

While I haven't actually confirmed it with anyone I believe the AC power requirement is because there is not enough juice in the single USB connection to power the two ATSC tuners in the AM21. Either way, it's a very clean design.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

houskamp said:


> wrong..
> power cable from wall goes to AM21, then the AM21 has a cord to the DVR...


two stars for houskamp.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Using an AM21 on one USB port, will my Toaster with a USB cord work in another port on my HR21?


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Yup and that is record up to 2 things (3 if you count Video on Demand downloads) and playback one thing at the same time. Those two things can be any of the following combinations:
> 
> 2 satellite broadcasts
> 1 satellite broadcast, 1 over-the-air broadcast
> 2 over-the-air broadcasts


And, as I almost always chime in on this:

Even if you have only one satellite hooked up (that is without SWM), you can still record 2 OTA broadcasts at once.

With one satellite and one OTA hookup, you can record:

1 satellite, 1 OTA
2 OTA


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## chrpai (Oct 27, 2007)

byron said:


> i think it's safe to assume it will function in the same exact manner as an HR20 with an integrated OTA tuner.


I suppose it's also safe to say that the HD-DVR is really still $300 instead of $200 since you have to buy the add-on to get the equivilant original functionality.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Throckmorton said:


> So if I add an AM-21 to my HR-20 I'll be able to record four OTA programs at once?
> 
> <ducks quickly, sneaks out the back door>


You cannot and will not be able to use the AM-21 with the HR20...it is for the HR21 only. Earl has said there are no plans whatsoever to allow the AM21 to work with the HR20.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

chrpai said:


> I suppose it's also safe to say that the HD-DVR is really still $300 instead of $200 since you have to buy the add-on to get the equivilant original functionality.


it isn't if OTA isn't important to you.... which to the majority of customers, it isn't.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

byron said:


> it isn't if OTA isn't important to you.... which to the majority of customers, it isn't.


Yup, the majority will not even notice anything other than perhaps the lower price and the black box vs. the silver one. But for some the cost will be a little higher to get the add-on.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

chrpai said:


> I suppose it's also safe to say that the HD-DVR is really still $300 instead of $200 since you have to buy the add-on to get the equivilant original functionality.





byron said:


> it isn't if OTA isn't important to you.... which to the majority of customers, it isn't.





Doug Brott said:


> Yup, the majority will not even notice anything other than perhaps the lower price and the black box vs. the silver one. But for some the cost will be a little higher to get the add-on.


And at the same time... that is $60 less in those boxes for those that don't want.... $60 less, that doesn't have to be paid for somewhere else in the system.

As those OTA tuners are not free to make.


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## Mike728 (Oct 29, 2007)

byron said:


> it isn't if OTA isn't important to you.... which to the majority of customers, it isn't.


Not sure that it isn't important. Probably more ignorance than anything. They just don't know what they're missing.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Mike728 said:


> Not sure that it isn't important. Probably more ignorance than anything. They just don't know what they're missing.


Really?

I have OTA connected... but don't use it, or really need it.
I pretty much leave it there, just for testing purposes.
As all the channels I want, I get via SAT.

There are a LOT of non-ignorant people out there, that just don't want an OTA antenna on their home and the additional work to get that signal to their TV.

With a lot of the markets now having all of the big 4 channels available... and then even more channels on the SAT stream... People who have gone without OTA antennas for 20+ years now, are not going to run out and put one up... just so they can have a "weather" channel.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Mike728 said:


> Not sure that it isn't important. Probably more ignorance than anything. They just don't know what they're missing.


Tell that to the 1800 foot mountain between me and the station tower .


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And at the same time... that is $60 less in those boxes for those that don't want.... $60 less, that doesn't have to be paid for somewhere else in the system.
> 
> As those OTA tuners are not free to make.


Given that it probably costs at least $60 or more just to manufacture, package, distribute and support the AM21, it seems to me that DirecTV is using some of the cost savings they're realizing on the HR21 boxes to subsidize the AM21 cost for those customers that need or want OTA. Nice move on their part, IMO. /steve


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## Mike728 (Oct 29, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Tell that to the 1800 foot mountain between me and the station tower .


I don't think you're in a majority region.


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## dyker (Feb 27, 2008)

How good will the tuners be? I'm not trying to rattle cages but there is a big difference in tuner quality. My Panasonic HD TV tuner sucks. My Sony HD tv tuner is just "OK". My home built SAGE box with two Avermedia A180 tuners are rock solid and pull in everything except one channel is flakey. I use my HD HomeRun tuners on that box to pull in the flakey channel.

We don't get HD NBC from DirecTV in our area because of broken down negotiations between D* and whoever owns the channel... and also have a great PBS HD channel here that I'd like to get integrated on the box... but I don't want to commit to another $99 dollars (or $59 or whatever) and find out the tuners on the lower end like the Panasonic (vs the higher end on my home-built).

A side comment is: D* is advertising on the radio that they are the only ones with all the HD channels in my area 49503 Western Michigan. But they don't have NBC? But they advertise they have all the major networks?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dyker said:


> How good will the tuners be? I'm not trying to rattle cages but there is a big difference in tuner quality. My Panasonic HD TV tuner sucks. My Sony HD tv tuner is just "OK". My home built SAGE box with two Avermedia A180 tuners are rock solid and pull in everything except one channel is flakey. I use my HD HomeRun tuners on that box to pull in the flakey channel.
> 
> We don't get HD NBC from DirecTV in our area because of broken down negotiations between D* and whoever owns the channel... and also have a great PBS HD channel here that I'd like to get integrated on the box... but I don't want to commit to another $99 dollars (or $59 or whatever) and find out the tuners on the lower end like the Panasonic (vs the higher end on my home-built).
> 
> A side comment is: D* is advertising on the radio that they are the only ones with all the HD channels in my area 49503 Western Michigan. But they don't have NBC? But they advertise they have all the major networks?


AT this point, we don't know what generation the tuners are in the AM21... But they probably are going to be better then your Panasonic ones.

But each area/conditions are going to be different, so until you can put one in your home... there is no way to be sure.


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## arxaw (Jul 13, 2003)

byron said:


> it isn't if OTA isn't important to you.... which to the majority of customers, it isn't.


Tell that to people who live in my area. No HD LIL - not even on the list. And even if it was, you get stations from a DMA in another state. Almost all sat customers here (even SD-only customers) use OTA so they can get local news from our state.

Our local dealer is _really_ pissed at directv about this.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

dyker said:


> How good will the tuners be? I'm not trying to rattle cages but there is a big difference in tuner quality.


Does anyone know what ATSC chipset is being used in the AM-21? Announced last year, this "6th generation" chipset from LGE sounds pretty promising. /steve


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Steve said:


> Does anyone know what ATSC chipset is being used in the AM-21? Announced last year, this "6th generation" chipset from LGE sounds pretty promising. /steve


That information has not been released by DirecTV yet.


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## dyker (Feb 27, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> AT this point, we don't know what generation the tuners are in the AM21... But they probably are going to be better then your Panasonic ones.
> 
> But each area/conditions are going to be different, so until you can put one in your home... there is no way to be sure.


It is not leased, right? So I could resell it on ebay if it doesn't work for me. Right?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

dyker said:


> It is not leased, right? So I could resell it on ebay if it doesn't work for me. Right?


At this point, we don't know what the "ownership/lease" standing is going to be for the AM21.

It will most likely be an OWNED product, since it can't be used without an HR21...


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## chris8796 (Aug 19, 2007)

Indiana627 said:


> Does anyone know the reason behind D* OTA database approach instead of letting the HR20 scan for OTA?


I would guess it is the easiest way to synchronize the guide data with the channel.


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## byron (Nov 15, 2004)

arxaw said:


> Tell that to people who live in my area. No HD LIL - not even on the list. And even if it was, you get stations from a DMA in another state. Almost all sat customers here (even SD-only customers) use OTA so they can get local news from our state.
> 
> Our local dealer is _really_ pissed at directv about this.


oh yeah, i'm not saying OTA isn't important. even though i live in the #1 DMA and we have CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, My9, and CW all on the SAT and available... i still wouldn't buy a D* receiver that didn't support OTA (in some form or fashion). The reliability of OTA signals is very important to me. in a strong storm I can rest assured that all of my season passes will record without a problem, whereas the SAT signal fades during heavy rain/snow. so i definitely see where you are coming from... i'm just saying that most "normal" people don't give a crap about OTA.


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> People who have gone without OTA antennas for 20+ years now, are not going to run out and put one up... just so they can have a "weather" channel.


Well that's a dumb comment. I want OTA for a simple reason RAIN FADE!!

You can tell me all you want, but MPEG-4, MPEG-2, SD, dish alignment what ever form a SAT rain fade is an issue here in South Florida.

Yes, I have have/had the signal go out in a nice rain storm for up to 45 min. This sucks during a big game (which my wife almost killed my 5 yrs ago during a football game with 12 guest here.) and not be able to watch it due to rain.

With cable there was no worries. I also enjoy a few sub-channels besides "weather" as well. Also with D* the only way to get local weather is OTA as the weather channel is not local like the cable versions.

Who needs an antenna on the roof? Mine is in the attic. Now with the new AD Antenna coming out, I will get more stations than ever including the possibility of picking up a blacked-out football game.

Now maybe 95% of D* current customers have NO need for OTA, but OTA are making a come back with HDTV sales. Even cable customers are getting them. Better HD picture than Comcrap here and when the cable goes out (it does lot around here for hrs and hrs) you still have 30+ stations!

Again D* in the SAT business, not OTA. What they are doing with the AM21 seems like a very good idea and smart business move. At least they are giving their customers a chance to get OTA using there stuff if they really need/want OTA to enjoy their D* service and TV overall!

Oh, something called FM as well!


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

dyker said:


> How good will the tuners be? I'm not trying to rattle cages but there is a big difference in tuner quality. My Panasonic HD TV tuner sucks. My Sony HD tv tuner is just "OK". My home built SAGE box with two Avermedia A180 tuners are rock solid and pull in everything except one channel is flakey. I use my HD HomeRun tuners on that box to pull in the flakey channel.
> 
> We don't get HD NBC from DirecTV in our area because of broken down negotiations between D* and whoever owns the channel... and also have a great PBS HD channel here that I'd like to get integrated on the box... but I don't want to commit to another $99 dollars (or $59 or whatever) and find out the tuners on the lower end like the Panasonic (vs the higher end on my home-built).
> 
> A side comment is: D* is advertising on the radio that they are the only ones with all the HD channels in my area 49503 Western Michigan. But they don't have NBC? But they advertise they have all the major networks?


My Panny Plasma's tuner is MUCH better than the HR20 or HR10-250 that I own. Picks up more station than either. Never have pixelation issues as well.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Why is it a "dumb" comment...

So you have a concern for "rain fade"... but there are a lot of people, that is not a concern... and certainly not a concern that will cause them to put an antenna up. My rain fade levels, here in Chicago... are very very small... I think last year, it had to be less then one hour total... for the entire year... that impacted me at times I wanted to watch something live... and even then the cases where for a few minutes at a clip. I also have not had my dish touched, since it was installed in Jan of 06... same allignment, same position.... 

SAT TV has pentrated the market for how many years now?
I have lost my "cable" internet connection, more often in the last year... then I have my DirecTV service... And in some towns... cable does go down, for no reason... 


Last time I checked... I can get weather on my PC, or by sticking my head out the window... I don't have to rely on OTA to let me know there is a thunderstorm going on, and on how bad it is... plus with other information avenues (Such as the internet)... I can often get much more up-to-date weather info... then some of the OTA-Sub channels.


You are lucky enough to be in a position, in relation to your broadcast towers, and have a home that has a properly sized, positioned attic to do that.

I am in the same boat... I am able to mount it in my attic... however, my neighbor 4 doors down... is not... for him to get an antenna adaquet enough to get the signals, he has no choice then his roof.

OTA is not making a comeback with HDTV sales... 
If it was... then was it for the last 5 years, while OTA was available... but HDTV sales, have not perked up until non-OTA carriers, started providing more content.

If anything OTA is making a comeback, because of the DTV transition...


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

gio12 said:


> Yes, I have have/had the signal go out in a nice rain storm for up to 45 min. This sucks during a big game (which my wife almost killed my 5 yrs ago during a football game with 12 guest here.) and not be able to watch it due to rain.


+1. I have 5 DVR's in the house, and I try to record at least one version of the network primetime shows OTA as a back-up in case of loss of sat signal for whatever reason.

I also find that for sporting events, you can't beat the quality of OTA MPEG-2 "trickplay" over MPEG-4, which by it's nature is never going to be as smooth.

Of course the disadavantage to OTA is you chew up disk space more quickly, so you have to be a little more vigilant about using the KEEP button for shows you plan to watch later. /steve


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## gio12 (Jul 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why is it a "dumb" comment...
> 
> So you have a concern for "rain fade"... but there are a lot of people, that is not a concern... and certainly not a concern that will cause them to put an antenna up. My rain fade levels, here in Chicago... are very very small... I think last year, it had to be less then one hour total... for the entire year... that impacted me at times I wanted to watch something live... and even then the cases where for a few minutes at a clip. I also have not had my dish touched, since it was installed in Jan of 06... same allignment, same position....
> 
> ...


The whole weather thing. My wife's watches the weather all the time in the bedrom when she wakes up to see what the forecast is going to be. Why go down down stair to check the internet? Sitcking your head out in the window does not tell you much excpet for that moment.

Here in SFLA getting OTA is sooo easy. Bascially everyone is 15-30miles south of the towers as they are centurally located for SFLA and are all located in the same location.

Even with hurricanes people are adding OTA here a lot form what I can see.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

gio12 said:


> The whole weather thing. My wife's watches the weather all the time in the bedrom when she wakes up to see what the forecast is going to be. Why go down down stair to check the internet? Sitcking your head out in the window does not tell you much excpet for that moment.
> 
> Here in SFLA getting OTA is sooo easy. Bascially everyone is 15-30miles south of the towers as they are centurally located for SFLA and are all located in the same location.
> 
> Even with hurricanes people are adding OTA here a lot form what I can see.


Every user/Every home/Every location has their needs and pattersn.

To me.. I am going downstairs anyway... and since I watched the 10pm news the night before, I have a pretty good idea on what I am going to wear that day.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Weather: DIRECTV receivers have the ACTIVE channel, which has weather on it. It may not be super detailed but it will tell you if you need a coat and/or an umbrella. 

As for the whole, "do you need OTA or not" question, that's not the purpose of this thread. If you want OTA, I support your desire wholeheartedly. So does DIRECTV, that's why they're building the AM21.So does solidsignal. Hey, did you know you can pre-order the AM21 there? 

which is my not-so-subtle request for this forum to head back to topic, please.


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## BrandonH (Aug 16, 2006)

I live approximately 50 miles from the transmitters for our local stations, and I can pick up every single one of them in HD with a small uhf indoor antenna even on on my HR10-250 with its so called poor tuners. I live in a very hilly region as well. Not everyone has to put up a big huge ugly antenna to receive OTA HD. For some like me, it is the only option as well since neither Directv or Dish carry them in HD.


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## Mike728 (Oct 29, 2007)

There are more things you lose than just the weather sub channels and PBS by not having an OTA option. For instance, there will be 25 White Sox games broadcast in HD on WCIU this season. Not too much of a chance that DirecTV will be adding them any time soon. 


Sorry, Back on topic now.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Again, the topic of whether or not you may want to use an antenna, and why, has already been discussed in other threads.


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## Throckmorton (Dec 7, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> My rain fade levels, here in Chicago... are very very small... I think last year, it had to be less then one hour total... for the entire year...


Well I'm out here in Aurora/Naperville and I had "fog" fade for 4+ hours just a couple of weeks ago. On a brand new SlimLine dish that was just installed in October.

I get 90s+ on all transponders when the sky is clear though.

My triple LNB dish with my Sony SAT-W60 UTV DVR was never that bad.


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## jimed1 (Jan 12, 2008)

byron said:


> oh yeah, i'm not saying OTA isn't important. even though i live in the #1 DMA and we have CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC, My9, and CW all on the SAT and available... i still wouldn't buy a D* receiver that didn't support OTA (in some form or fashion). The reliability of OTA signals is very important to me. in a strong storm I can rest assured that all of my season passes will record without a problem, whereas the SAT signal fades during heavy rain/snow. so i definitely see where you are coming from... i'm just saying that most "normal" people don't give a crap about OTA.


And during a storm is exactly when people need to have access to OTA signals. My DMA doesn't have HD LiL right now and I wanted the built in tuner so I could record the network HD shows that I watch. So I had to keep my Tivo connected along with my HR21 to be able to do that. Its not that big a deal for me to switch back and forth, but I have a couple of technically challanged women in my house. 
This brings me to my point.. I live in an area that has severe weather several times a year, tornados and severe thunderstorms mostly. So, rain fade can be a problem for me. With the built in tuner, I could always see my locals just by changing the channels. Now I have to switch TV inputs. Not a big deal for me, but my 80 year old mother just can't remember how to do it. So if the weather is bad and I'm not there, she may or may not be able to get the tv tuned to a OTA signal.

Everyone can say what they want to about not needing built-in tuners, but if you don't have an antenna up, or an alternate way of getting your locals beside D*, you could find yourself scrambling to get important information about you area.

I don't have a problem with buying the AM21. I just think it should have been made available at the same time the HR21's hit the market.


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## jwd45244 (Aug 18, 2006)

jimed1 said:


> I don't have a problem with buying the AM21. I just think it should have been made available at the same time the HR21's hit the market.


I doubt that anyone would disagree. The fact is that it wasn't. But RSN (real soon now) you will be able to have one.


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## NickIndy (Feb 20, 2008)

Even if it is $99 I don't think that's terribly unreasonable. Here in the midwest in the spring it's kinda nice at times to have your local weather stations (usually a subchannel of the locals). And my local CBS high def station isn't and probably won't be on the satellite.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Until these are ready for shipping, the jury is out on the pricing. Let's all just keep a level head and wait and see.


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