# distort-o-vision



## Wind_River (Feb 6, 2006)

--


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

yes


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## Pepper (Mar 9, 2004)

First of all, the proper technical term for this, as implemented by Turner, is "Stretch-o-Vision" 

I am very surprised the HD channel providers have not capitalized on the 4x3 content by putting advertising of some sort on the left and right sides of the picture. At least ESPN-HD has the right idea, instead of stretching they put their logo in the pilllarbox so you at least know what shape the picture would be if it were 16x9 content.


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## space86 (May 4, 2007)

TNT HD will sometimes show movies in the 2:35:1 Aspect Ratio instead of
being crop to 1:78:1.


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## DJ Lon (Nov 3, 2005)

Can your 16:9 LCD display really be ruined if you choose not to stretch the 4:3 image and leave it with the vertical black bars on the sides? My owner's manual mentions this but makes no mention of the horizontal black bars that appear on a letterboxed movie.


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## rictorg (Feb 2, 2007)

I couldn't agree more with the OP. The problem is that people don't think it's HD unless it fills the screen. Further, I suspect the majority of people (not the majority of people the frequent these forums, mind you) default to stretch-o-vision when watching their TVs at home. I know I use it occasionally (especially a good implementation of the 14:9 stretch) when watching 4:3 sports, news, and other programs that use a lot of graphics that might otherwise be more difficult to read with pillar bars on a 32" set. Point is, I can live (under protest) with stretching 4:3 content to 16:9.

However, when they stretch pillarboxed 16:9 content horizontally but not vertically, that drives me crazy! I understand some content isn't 16:9, and can live with it. I understand some content is distributed as 480i and can live with it. What I completely dislike is stretching content in such a way that the letterbox is still in place. Argh!

Since this shapes up to be a long term problem, one interm solution could be provided by E* as a feature to their HD receivers. From my experience with the 622 and general assumptions on the other hardware feature sets, the current HD receivers already offer several aspect ratio options. I would encourage them to add two more; one which does a reverse stretch from 16:9 to 4:3, and one which does a vertical stretch from horizontally stretched pillarboxed 16:9 screen filling 16:9 (same idea as 16:9 zoom, but for stretch-o-vision channels). Obviously, using these options would not be better then all the content providers distributing in the native aspect ratios, but it offers at a single choke point a very implementable solution that could at least keep us content while we wait for others to see the light.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I hate black bars on ANY part of my picture. IF you talk to the average joe out there he too would want his entire hd picture filled out , not black bars. I think that is why they implemented the zoom and partial zoom features on the remote controls on both services. But that being said if the hd channels would offer the sd shows in true 4 x3 aspect, both sides would win. Although I notice the picture looks much better zoomed by the provider or channel, rather than by my remote control or receiver. OF course maybe they could provide all hd channels in zoom mode and offer a "Squish" mode for the oar people out there who want their sd picture over hd channels in 4x3.


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## booger (Nov 1, 2005)

Wind_River said:


> I commented to A&E about the distorted picture on their service (and got no reply, of course).
> 
> I read with interest the others who have also complained and didn't receive a reply.
> 
> ...


I think you are absolutely right.


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## bobukcat (Dec 20, 2005)

Xandir said:


> Can your 16:9 LCD display really be ruined if you choose not to stretch the 4:3 image and leave it with the vertical black bars on the sides? My owner's manual mentions this but makes no mention of the horizontal black bars that appear on a letterboxed movie.


I don't think LCD is really perceptible to burn in or aging, it is an issue with Plasma and CRT but not LCD.


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## pilam99 (Aug 15, 2003)

Wind_River said:


> I commented to A&E about the distorted picture on their service (and got no reply, of course).
> 
> I read with interest the others who have also complained and didn't receive a reply.
> 
> ...


I find it amazing how many people don't even understand what OAR is even when you try and describe it to them. i.e. they don't understand how when you put, say, Star Wars on a 4:3 screen, unless you are letterboxing it, you're missing part of the movie.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

A lot of people prefer perception to reality... so filling their TV (whatever aspect ratio TV they have) is what they want, regardless of what it does to the image on the screen.

I don't understand that... but if the average Joe wants it, we likely have lost this battle already.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

Wind_River said:


> I commented to A&E about the distorted picture on their service (and got no reply, of course).
> 
> I read with interest the others who have also complained and didn't receive a reply.
> 
> ...


You are my new best friend. I have been harrassing TBS, TNT, AE and History Channel for a while now but its not helping. This lack of common sense toward maintaining aspect ratios is a scary trend and needs to remedied immediately.

Can we make a petition/website/email campaign to get this problem solved ASAP?

Like Wind_River I find it borderline impossible to comment on the kinds of people that want Distort-o-Vision without straying into the territory of outright anger. Stop it. Just stop. You guys are ruining HD. I'm serious.


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## tomcrown1 (Jan 16, 2006)

Wind_River said:


> I can't think of a polite way to respond to this kind of comment. I understand the moderators want us to stay polite.....so, for as long as I can.......I'll stay polite.
> 
> Smart forum users will understand my frustration at this person's [ expletive deleted ] comment and will realize the reason that A&E, History, TNT and TBS practice "distort-o-vision."
> 
> ...


you called me stupid because I want my screen filled up when it is a letter box 4:3 picture I just do parital zoom

Hay I like stupid


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## rictorg (Feb 2, 2007)

Miggity said:


> Like Wind_River I find it borderline impossible to comment on the kinds of people that want Distort-o-Vision without straying into the territory of outright anger. Stop it. Just stop. You guys are ruining HD. I'm serious.


I wouldn't go so far as to suggest they are ruining HD, as all the networks in question do have stunning HD content that otherwise wouldn't be available. I would agree that 4:3 & SD content being played over their HD feeds leave much to be desired.

It isn't surprising that Turner is at the front of this pack; I recall him leading the fight to colorize black & white movies in the eighties. Thankfully, that effort was quashed... perhaps it will give us hope in winning this battle as well.


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## bestivo (Feb 14, 2007)

It would be nice to see everything in it's original aspect ration, but as some have said most people just want to have 'filled screen'

As time goes, there will be more hd content and less SD so this won't be such a big problem in few years. I know most people from this forum want to get the aspect ratio fixed "ASAP" but it won't happen soon.


On my TV i have option for full & normal (also some zoomed options). HD in full mode is 1:1 from the source. If i watch a streched channel i switch the option to normal and it squashes the picture back to 4:3, loosing some quality from the SD picture but showing the correct aspect ratio.

I don't like switching it back and fort all the time but at least i see what i wanna see.

I think if you have such an option on your tvs, would be the best way to at least go around the problem


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

I was trying to suggest that the people that want distort-o-vision are ruining the HD experience, not the networks themselves. (well yes they are because they're doing it...)

remember in the 80's when occasionally a movie like Die Hard would air on TV and it was a widescreen version stretched _*vertically *_so everybody had long skinny heads? 20 years ago this was done just so the image would "fill the screen."

It was really stupid and you quit seeing it because people accepted letterboxing.

Stretching an image to "fill the screen" was dumb 20 years ago and its even dumber now because we should know better. We've been through this before people. Whats that old saying about knowing history so we can learn from our mistakes? Otherwise we're destined to repeat the same mistakes again?

We've been here before. Let's stop making these mistakes. Wise up people. No you can't has "fill the screen." Not yours.

:down:


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

Pepper said:


> At least ESPN-HD has the right idea


:up:

i just sent them an email, thanking them for doing it *right *and not pussing out like Turner and A&E Networks.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

When ESPNHD first launched, they too were stretching everything not HD to fill the screen. I don't remember how long it was (a year maybe?) before they started using the grey logoed sidebars.

TNTHD seems to have not gotten the message over the years... and it looks like some of the new channels are following suit.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

Stretch-O-Vision petetion thread and link

thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102049

link:
http://www.petitiononline.com/sillyhd/petition.html


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## Volitar Prime (Apr 1, 2007)

Those of you who hate black bars should keep in mind that most (all?) widescreen TVs have a built in stretch and/or zoom mode that you can use as well as most (all?) of Dish Networks HD receivers. But very few (none?) of them have a method to squish an already stretched image back to it's original form.

When a station stretches the image to please you, they leave us with no way to watch it the way we prefer. But when a station doesn't stretch the image then everyone wins as you can use your TV or Dish Network receiver to stretch it or zoom in while we can watch it in it's original form.


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## ccr1958 (Aug 29, 2007)

Volitar Prime said:


> Those of you who hate black bars should keep in mind that most (all?) widescreen TVs have a built in stretch and/or zoom mode that you can use as well as most (all?) of Dish Networks HD receivers. But very few (none?) of them have a method to squish an already stretched image back to it's original form.
> 
> When a station stretches the image to please you, they leave us with no way to watch it the way we prefer. But when a station doesn't stretch the image then everyone wins as you can use your TV or Dish Network receiver to stretch it or zoom in while we can watch it in it's original form.


+1


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

My TV can display a 16x9 signal in 3x4 ... kind of an "unstretch".


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

Volitar Prime said:


> Those of you who hate black bars should keep in mind that most (all?) widescreen TVs have a built in stretch and/or zoom mode that you can use as well as most (all?) of Dish Networks HD receivers. But very few (none?) of them have a method to squish an already stretched image back to it's original form.
> 
> When a station stretches the image to please you, they leave us with no way to watch it the way we prefer. But when a station doesn't stretch the image then everyone wins as you can use your TV or Dish Network receiver to stretch it or zoom in while we can watch it in it's original form.


:up:


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

If I put my receiver into 480p , my tv can be placed into many forms of zooms, partial stretches and even natural output or 4 x3 . So if I really wanted 4 x 3 this is the way I could do it. 

My point I made above in my other post is that the average joe public wants the tv screen filled. When it is not ,they usually start screaming why is my screen full of black bars? Most of the public knows nothing about origional aspect ratios, hd resolutions, the digital transition dead line of 2/17/09 either. Only a few very vocal people on these web boards seem to want everything in oar. The hd channels that are displaying wide stretched video are doing so to please the "general public" , not video-files like on this and other message boards. Shows on Tlc A&e, HGtv in hd all look better to me when the channel does the stretching vs my hd receiver doing the zooming. 

Now I don't think that years from now that the channels will be doing this. I figure once they get enough shows in hd or all programming in hd , you won't see stretched to fill programming any longer. But till then, it means you will be seeing stretched to fill programming for a few years more.


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## SingleAction (Apr 29, 2005)

I have a simple question?

Why is it that when you go to the "movies", whatever movie you watch is always full wide screen?

NOT LETTERBOX!

Because people spending $6>10 bucks, wouldn't put up with it!

That's why! There, I answered my own simple question:lol:


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

SingleAction said:


> I have a simple question?
> 
> Why is it that when you go to the "movies", whatever movie you watch is always full wide screen?
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? Are you talking about movie theaters?

If so... movie theaters are generally equipped to show in the intended aspect ratio... but technically speaking you may also be watching letterbox.

Think about it like this... A movie theater has a big blank projection screen to show the movie. Different movies have different aspect ratios like 2.35:1 and 1.78:1 and 1.85:1 and so forth. Movie theaters are generally very dark and many (if not all) of them also have retractable curtains so that any unused portion of the movie screen are obscured.

But depending upon how you define "letterbox"... movie theaters have it just like our TVs do. You just may not be looking for it there like you are at home.


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## SingleAction (Apr 29, 2005)

HDMe,

I beg to differ with you!

"Retractable curtains", what era are you talking about? I'm 59 years old, and been to many movie theaters, including being an usher, manager, ticket taker, and projectionist, in the late 1960's, in the metropolitan NY area, and don't have a clue to what you are talking about!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm surprised ... retractable curtains are part of the fun of going to the movies.
The megaplexes don't do it often, but I've been in many a theatre where after the preview reels played the curtains would open a little bit wider for the main feature.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

SingleAction said:


> HDMe,
> 
> I beg to differ with you!
> 
> "Retractable curtains", what era are you talking about? I'm 59 years old, and been to many movie theaters, including being an usher, manager, ticket taker, and projectionist, in the late 1960's, in the metropolitan NY area, and don't have a clue to what you are talking about!


I'm 37 and coincidentally also was an usher, ticket taker, and projectionist in my youth... albeit more recently than you 

I haven't been to one of the newer megamultisuperplexes in quite a while, so I can't vouch for the current theater experience... but in the late 1970s and early 1980s of my youth there were still a lot of single and 2-plex cinemas around... and those, including one I worked at for a while, had the automated curtains that were triggered from the projectionist booth (either by the projectionist or later by cues placed on the film at the right spot) to open or close to cover the unused portion of the screen.

I remember seeing the original Star Wars movies, for instance, in theaters that did this... as James notes, the curtains only partially opened during the trailers and previews... but as the main feature began the curtains would draw farther open from the sides and sometimes would close a little from the top as well.

The modern theater that is a lot smaller, they may just go the route of having the place dark enough that you can't see the rest of the screen.

But given that today's movies are still shot in varying aspect ratios (2.35:1 and 1.85:1 perhaps being most popular) there is no way for a theater to have a screen that is exactly the dimensions of every movie unless they consciously reject showing movies based on that.

Think about the old drive-ins too... Those were one very big fixed screen, with no curtains to hide things... so movies did not fill that real estate either. Been a long time since I've had a drive-in near me to visit.. but my recollection is that those super screens were usually 4:3, so the widescreen movies would have unused top and bottom a lot of the time.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is movies on "FILM" actually aren't OAR. they are anamorphic. Meaning that they are shot with a lens that "squishes" the Wide scene into the the area that the film can contain. Then the projector has a lens that reverses the process. I really doubt that we will ever see "everything" in wide screen. there is just to much stock of so many different OAR's for this to happen, the link below describes how many different OAR's are around. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/2933/favaspectratio.html


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## SingleAction (Apr 29, 2005)

James Long said:


> I'm surprised ... retractable curtains are part of the fun of going to the movies.
> The megaplexes don't do it often, but I've been in many a theatre where after the preview reels played the curtains would open a little bit wider for the main feature.


The last time I remember any curtains, was going to the sat matinee when I was 10 yrs old in 1958.

It's got to be 25 years or more since I've been to a single screen theater, so maybe I've just forgotten.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

Before I bring this thread back on track, yes, movie theaters in 2007 have curtains that move depending on the aspect ratio of the film. Theres no debate here. They just do.


Now. Back to the topic on hand. STRETCHING OUT A 4:3 IMAGE IS RETARDED. Wise up folks.


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## TvilleBee (Feb 11, 2007)

Why can't they transmit 4x3 and let the people that want to strech do it at their homes, instead of stretching for them?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

That's where many of us are confused. The Dish receiver and many TVs provide stretching and zooming options. But if the channel is already pre-stretched/zoomed then we are generally stuck with it.

Unfortunately it would appear the "we want our screen filled at all costs" crowd has more sway with the channels right now since they seem to think that is what the average viewer wants.

On a related note... I am close to finding an optimal viewing angle so I can sit askew from my HDTV and watch things like TBSHD and give the illusion of normal proportions


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

A&E broadcast 4/3 programming as 4/3 on their HD channel up until the fire interruption last month. They may be doing stretch now due to continuing technical problems.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

patmurphey said:


> A&E broadcast 4/3 programming as 4/3 on their HD channel up until the fire interruption last month. They may be doing stretch now due to continuing technical problems.


Let's hope thats the problem. If that is the case then some kind of press release explaining that or reply to my daily emails would be nice.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

Insanely Useful (but blatantly copied/pasted) from AVSForum:

Stretches/Zooms:

Multiple stations per company:
A&E HD, History Channel HD The email [email protected] is for the entire suite of channels.

Animal Planet HD, Science HD, TLC HD, Discovery HD:Couldn't find an email address. You can use this. http://extweb.discovery.com/viewerrelations

TBS HD: [email protected], TNT HD: [email protected] Use TNT in HD in the subject line

Food Network HD, HGTV HD http://www.scripps.com/networks/networks-contact.html


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

rictorg said:


> Since this shapes up to be a long term problem, one interm solution could be provided by E* as a feature to their HD receivers. From my experience with the 622 and general assumptions on the other hardware feature sets, the current HD receivers already offer several aspect ratio options. I would encourage them to add two more; one which does a reverse stretch from 16:9 to 4:3, and one which does a vertical stretch from horizontally stretched pillarboxed 16:9 screen filling 16:9 (same idea as 16:9 zoom, but for stretch-o-vision channels). Obviously, using these options would not be better then all the content providers distributing in the native aspect ratios, but it offers at a single choke point a very implementable solution that could at least keep us content while we wait for others to see the light.


In the old days, I figured out how to do this with my 721 receiver. There was a 4:3 setting in the screen formats that would compress wide screen outputs anamorphically. I primarily used it for archiving movies to DVD, since my DVD capture was SD, and my projector would expand the show back to wide screen. On an HD channel, the SVGA output gave a very clean 480i signal, and I could burn a disc almost as good as a factory DVD. It was also handy for watching TNTHD, with their stupid screen stretching.

Since I upgraded to the 622, I don't burn as many DVDs, and just switch to the SD channel while watching TNT or A&E. I can't handle the goofy stretched images, and would rather watch in SD. I don't know if it's possible to set the 622 output to do the same thing the 721 would do. I suspect it probably is. IIRC, there are several screen aspect options in the setup menu. If you have a programmable remote, you might even be able to more or less automate the process of switching.


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## RobbieB (Jun 21, 2006)

good post. Let me share a gigantic pet peeve of mine. My parents have a 46" widescreen projection TV. I bought them a progressive scan dvd player and I set them up with component cables to it works fine. However they moved and wont set it up right again so not only is the dvd player hooked up using composit cables. They get wide screen dvd's so here you have
black bars on left and right PLUS black bars on top and bottom, basically reducing their viewing experience to a 20 inch tv.


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## drmckenzie (Aug 28, 2007)

My Samsung HLT6187S has a 4:3 mode, which compresses the stretch-o-vision down adequately. I'm not sure how many other HD sets might have this option...but it's worth checking your owner's manual....


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## techtonic (Oct 26, 2007)

For people having problems getting their system to unstretch the content you might like to check out my other recent post in the HDTV Programming forum (sorry, can't post links yet) which offers a work around that might work for you.


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## Steve_53 (Jul 6, 2005)

Wind_River said:


> Maybe I should write them to complain about "black bars"....my emails about the distortion seem to have fallen on deaf ears (or, more appropriately, blind eyes!)


:icon_dumm Why didn't I think of that!


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## TvilleBee (Feb 11, 2007)

Wind_River said:


> FYI....I checked my system and my 4:3 setting only "masked" left and right.....it didn't unstretch. Thanks for the suggestion, however. And suggestions are much appreciated.


Did you do this on the receiver or the tv? My 622 acts that way, the the tv will "sqeeze" the widescreen to a 4x3, thus giving an appropriate aspect ratio...

Rob


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

SingleAction said:



> I have a simple question?
> 
> Why is it that when you go to the "movies", whatever movie you watch is always full wide screen?
> 
> ...


Movie theaters show movies in their true aspect ratio. Always.

I suggest when you go to the movies, look at the sides of the screen. In most theaters, you will see curtains on the side that adjust the WIDTH of the picture (the height stays the same) for the aspect ratio. For a 2.35:1 movie, they pull the curtains to the side, for a 1.85:1 movie, they move them in a bit. You may even catch them moving if you get there before the previews.

(As for the discussion of retractable curtains, these curtains don't COVER the screen, they just give the illusion of the picture filling the entire screen by adjusting...hence rectractable...because human beings get fooled by things like curtains.)

BTW, the post I am answering just shows how little many people actually pay attention to things like this.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

I tried to let this peeve of mine die down over the weekend but I just can't seem to let it go... so here I am again.

I have received one positive reply to my complaints. Discovery Networks wrote back (form letter?) saying that they take all viewer suggestions very serious and they they forwarded my demand of maintaining aspect ratios to their engineering department.

So it is what it is I guess. But considering I haven't even gotten _any _kind of response from Turner or A&E Networks...


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

Wind_River said:


> I commented to A&E about the distorted picture on their service (and got no reply, of course).
> 
> ...


One of the stranger DirecTv ads I saw last week was that if you wanted to see A&E in HD switch to DirecTv.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

Wind_River said:


> I am somewhat in agreement with you.
> 
> However....
> 
> I KNOW that some theatres just mask the edges of the image so that what we see in the theatre is...perhaps 85 % of the intended image.


I've never been in a theater that does that. But then I am pretty discerning about my theaters. I prefer stadium seating, the best sound, clean auditoriums, good popcorn.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

tomcrown1 said:


> you called me stupid because I want my screen filled up when it is a letter box 4:3 picture I just do parital zoom
> 
> Hay I like stupid


EXACTLY!!!!!!

Perfect! That is what the feature is there for on the TVs!!! Even the cheapes 16x9 set has at least some form of zoom or stretch-ovision/distort-o-matic setting.

The problem is that those of us that do not like stretch-o-vision/distort-o-matic picture cannot UNDO the distortion that TNT/TBS/A&E/History Channel throw at us! There is not a consumer TV set on the planet that can UN-stretch the picture sent by these jack-asses!

This is the point of contention! Send OAR. Let the viewer decide if PQ or seeing people the way they really look (not 2 times wider than they are tall) is not a priority use the feature on their TV!

See ya
Tony


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

TNGTony said:


> EXACTLY!!!!!! Send OAR. Let the viewer decide if PQ or seeing people the way they really look (not 2 times wider than they are tall) is not a priority use the feature on their TV!


PREACH ON BROTHER!

:up:


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## TvilleBee (Feb 11, 2007)

Miggity said:


> PREACH ON BROTHER!
> 
> :up:


Amen!


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## Ridemywideglide (Nov 1, 2007)

I have what is probably an already answered stupid question, but here goes.
I recently purchased my first HDTV, JVC 42". And along with everyone else I hate the stretch-o-vision, but I have noticed with certain "HD" programs there black bars at the top and bottom of my screen..?? What's the use of buying an HDTV to view HD Content and then still putting bars top/bottom?? I paid alot of money for the screen realestate, I'd like to use it.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

It's called ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO.
For those that do not know, aspect ratio is the difference between how tall to how wide the picture is. A regular TV set that is 4 inches wide, would be 3 inches tall. Also known as 4x3.
A new TV that is 9 inches tall is 16 inches wide. 9x16 aspect ratio.

Movies come in all sorts of aspect ratios! So the black-bars come down to how the original movie or program was filmed.

The size of the TVs now (16x9) is a compromise of the 3 most common movie aspect rations. It is not an exact fit.
(see http://www.widescreen.org/aspect_ratios.shtml For refference a 16x9 TV is 1.77:1 aspect ratio. Regular TV is 1.33:1)

Some movies are filmed in panavision wide screen which is more than twice as wide as it is tall. To show that movie on your 16x9 TV which is a little more that 1½ times as wide than it is tall you have three options: 
1) Have black bars on the top and bottom and show the entire movie picture. (OAR)
2) "Zoom" the movie to fill the TV screen to show the center or "important" part of the frame and cut off what doesn't fit on the sides (Pan & Scan)
3) Squish the picture from the sides making everyone look tall and skinny. (Stupid)

These are essentially the same choices we had with the standard 4x3 sets. Though the "squish" mode could have been what is now known as "anamorphic" which a wider TV could stretch to look like normal.

There is a resolution to the "black-bar monster" that some people have an asthmatic attack over. On EVERY 16x9 TV there is an aspect ratio button. Some call it "wide". This button changes the picture to suit most tastes. In the HD mode, many TVs have a "zoom 1" and "Zoom 2". They will take the letter-boxed image and zoom it in to remove the offending black bars without distorting the image, thereby making your own Pan & Scan version of the movie.

If I were king, ALL channels that call themselves HD would have to, under penalty of DEATH and dismemberment, show all programs in OAR. No excuses. No mercy. Why? Because just about any TV out there can change the image to suit the viewer. All they have to do is hit the proper button. There are no TVs out there than can "undo" a pan & scan or stretch-o-vision matrix!

See ya
Tony


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## Steve_53 (Jul 6, 2005)

Way back when this thread first started, I sent an email to A&E about the distort-o-vision on History Channel HD, and I finally got a response yesterday:

_Thank you for your feedback regarding our high-definition offerings.

We want to be able to address your concerns about this content. The nature of certain programs limits our ability to show all of our programming in high definition.

As you know, HD is a newer technology. For programs that were not originally shot in HD, we are stretching the content to the 16 x 9 ratio. Our research has confirmed that this is the more popular choice for consumers.

We are committed to increasing the amount of programming we offer in "true HD."

We thank you again for your support as we continue to provide you with great entertainment options.

Best regards,
Affiliate Relations_

I hate so say it, but so far as A&E's offerings are concerned, the situation seems hopeless....


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

That is bad news on the History Channel front. What in the world are they thinking?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

They are thinking: Since most people are MORONS we will treat EVERYONE as a MORON and just stretch the image even if it is a 16x9 program!

##@@ YOU A&E!!! :flaiming


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## JigSawMan (Apr 18, 2006)

The only group who can really make a change here are the advertisers on these channels that utilize the distort-o-vision format. If I were an advertiser, I'd be pissed that my ad content was being distorted in this way. If the advertisers wanted to affect change here, they have the pull to do so. The channels will never listen to the audience. As far as the channels are concerned, we are just sheep that will watch what we are told to.


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> They are thinking: Since most people are MORONS we will treat EVERYONE as a MORON and just stretch the image even if it is a 16x9 program!
> 
> ##@@ YOU A&E!!! :flaiming


Most, if not all, of the channels that are distorting the image have an SD channel as well. The picture is fine on those channels. I have adjusted my timers to record the SD on those programs that are being stretched. 
I still can't believe the providers do this. I guess you're right about most people being morons. I have a friend who just bought a nice Sony 55 inch HD set. She doesn't subscribe to any HD programming. She stretches the image so she can see it in "HD". She thinks it looks great. Go figure.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

Check out this email I received last night:

----
Thank you for your recent comments concerning The History Channel in HD.

We appreciate the fact that you took the time to contact us because your
views on our programs provide the most direct and accurate information upon
which we can fine tune this new THC venture.

*We are currently trying to alleviate the picture distortion problem
associated with our HD channel.*

If you have any further questions or comments regarding this issue, please
contact us.

Cordially,
Viewer Relations
----

Maybe there is hope after all. Or at least some kind of internal civil war inside the halls of AE Networks. The email is in direct opposition to the email Steve_53 got just one day ago.

For the curious here is a copy of the email I sent them:

to	[email protected],
date	Dec 5, 2007 10:37 PM
subject	History Channel HD Stretched is unwatchable

Dear A&E Networks,

Let me get straight to the point.

Please stop stretching out 4:3 aspect ratio content!

It's that simple. We don't care if it is originally in HD or not. We just want content in the original aspect ratio. Your viewers are not fools. If we want to stretch something we will do it ourselves. Practically all televisions have the ability to choose to do that. We can't unstretch anything.

On top of all that please please please explain why brand new episodes of Modern Marvels and Dogfights is being stretched when they are in a 16x9 aspect ratio already? I seems like you have somebody at the controls that doesn't know what they are doing.

Take a cue from ESPN-HD and Discovery Channel HD and air 4:3 content either with pillarbox bars on the side or slightly zoomed in. It is not hard. If you need to hire someone to show you how to do it properly I am available and I will do it for free just so I can watch your channels again. In the meantime I will not being watching anything that is stretched out. Please stop.

I mean this will all sincerity. Please air your content in its correct aspect ratio. History Channel used to be one of my favorite channels and now I don't even watch it anymore.

You are losing your loyal and intelligent viewers.
I am not the only one.
There will be more.
Stop it.
Please stop stretching out 4:3 aspect ratio content!
We want original aspect ratios.

One more time: ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIOS!

Thank you,

I look forward to watching your channel again and catching up on all the shows I've missed. So please hurry up and knock it off so I can watch your channel again.


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## Steve_53 (Jul 6, 2005)

Way to go Miggity!


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

I really like the fact that they referred to it as a "picture distortion problem."


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

I was watching Dogfights on Discovery Channel a couple of nights ago.

It wasn't stretched but they did a partial zoom of the picture, because there were narrow bars on each side (about 1/3 the with of SD bars) and some of the graphics were cup off on top and bottom.

It was obviously SD material upconverted and zoomed.


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## motts (Apr 11, 2006)

Ok, if I have to live with some stretched content, then fine. What is totally unacceptable, though, is stretched material that is already 16:9! That just looks absolutely hideous. I mean, stretched content where I still have a letterbox format as the end result? I thought the point of stretching was to fill the screen, not only in one direction.

Others in this thread have voiced their dislike for this practice as well. I used to see it A LOT on History Channel, but it seems to have improved lately. I couldn't watch that channel at all. Now I have noticed programs in actual HD shown correctly. A step in the right direction.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

TNGTony said:


> It's called ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO.
> For those that do not know, aspect ratio is the difference between how tall to how wide the picture is. A regular TV set that is 4 inches wide, would be 3 inches tall. Also known as 4x3.
> A new TV that is 9 inches tall is 16 inches wide. 9x16 aspect ratio.
> 
> ...


Just one thing that is a little different than your statement. Pan & Scan does follow the most important section of the video. Say if the the most important part starts on the left side and moves to the ride side of the screen. The image shown starts on the left then it follows it across the screen as it moves. Only using the central image is cropping. Pan & Scan has to be done by a provider of the material to have it done correctly.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Right you are.  The "zoom" button on most people's HDTVs will just "zoom in" the image, not pan and scan (though some fancy models have the capability to move the zoomed image around to get the "important" part.


See ya
Tony


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## Vicsguy (Dec 6, 2007)

The networks cater to the lazy and ignorant. Why? They are the majority! Consider yourselves special!


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## TulsaOK (Feb 24, 2004)

Miggity said:


> [email protected]


Thanks for the email address. I sent a comment to A&E as well.


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## davethestalker (Sep 17, 2006)

tomcrown1 said:


> you called me stupid because I want my screen filled up when it is a letter box 4:3 picture I just do parital zoom
> 
> Hay I like stupid


The problem is that the stretched image is more annoying than having the bars on the sIdE. Gray bars are just as annoying as stretched.

Some people (like my Mom) have a 16:9 TV and do not ever watch any original 16:9 content. Everything they watch is originally if 4:3 and they stretch it. They become so used to it that they think the stretched image is natural.

Having a gross image just for the sake of "filling the screen" is not worth it. Although, some people enjoy hangin' out in the Fun House stairing at themselves in the funky mirrors.


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## drmckenzie (Aug 28, 2007)

My Samsung HLT6187S has several video settings -- "Just Scan (pass through), "Full Screen" (stretch), etc., and also includes a "4:3" setting. When I select 4:3 while viewing a channel with stretch-o-vision, it shrinks the picture horizontally back to its original video aspect ratio. The picture looks pretty good, and appears to contain everything in the original stretched picture.

Is this feature just on these Samsungs, or do other widescreen TVs have it? I haven't heard anyone discuss this solution to the problem, so I was wondering if it is an unusual feature, or if perhaps other people just aren't aware of what they can do with video settings they already have.


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## whatchel1 (Jan 11, 2006)

I received the exactly same reply from Hist HD today as Miggity. We all need to keep sending in emails to them worded differently but keep expressing what a POS it is to watch the Stretch-O-Vision.


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

whatchel1 said:


> I received the exactly same reply from Hist HD today as Miggity. We all need to keep sending in emails to them worded differently but keep expressing what a POS it is to watch the Stretch-O-Vision.


Nice! Thats good to hear.


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## duffytoo (Mar 13, 2005)

tomcrown1 said:


> you called me stupid because I want my screen filled up when it is a letter box 4:3 picture I just do parital zoom
> 
> Hay I like stupid


Good answer! I too use the partial zoom mode. Gives you great results without distorting the picture. Who wants to watch anything with sidebars?


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## Miggity (Aug 10, 2007)

I got two emails today! One from TBS and one from TNT. Both emails were exactly the same.

_In an effort to present a consistent broadcast, we have decided to maintain the same aspect ratio for all HD programming. An unfortunately consequence of this is that the standard TV ratio of 4:3 is presented as 16:9. This is what "stretches" the image.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Best,

TBS Web Staff_

I admit TNT-HD has gotten better about it these days, but TBS-"HD" is a *joke*.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Translation: "We know it looks like crap, but we don't care. If you don't like it, Bl0# me! "

The key is that any 16x9 TV has a stretch mode for those who want to stretch the image. A pre-streched image (like TNT's) cannot be unstretched by any TV on the planet!

See ya
Tony


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