# Wait! Don't Buy Vista!



## Cholly

Here's an article from PC World enumerating reasons not to buy Windows Vista. Basic recommendation is to await Service Pack 1.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/128669-1/article.html?tk=nl_dnxnws


----------



## JM Anthony

Patooey. If you're going to run Vista, there's no reason to wait for SP1. If been using RC1 for the better part of a couple of months and it's very, very stable. There's an upgrade advisor utility you can run that will til you if you have any "issues."

My laptop is new and I spec'd it with Vista in mind. I have a free upgrade coming that I'll install as soon as it arrives. I've got a high end HTPC that's lacking audio drivers for Vista and I'll have to wait for that. The rest of my gear is good to go.

John


----------



## brewer4

I've been testing it for the past year and since RC1, its been very stable and reliable. Now I wouldnt release it to business critical systems but for home use, go for it. Thats of course if you have the latest hardware capable of running.


----------



## Chris Blount

I will be buying mine. Can't stand not being on the cutting edge of this stuff.


----------



## DonLandis

Other than the excuse Chris said, , what do you Vista early adopters find compelling reason to use it for that XP home or XP Pro didn't offer? So far no one is telling. I can only assume that all of you just need to be in that cutting edge camp with Chris. Me? I need to run a business and need to be sure it's profitable. One way to insure that is to know what benefits are worthy of the cost of anything I add to the work flow.


----------



## chris1207

SP1 is conventional wisdom for all MSFT software -- no longer valid. PCWorld is trying to be provactative, albeit lame.

W2k3 was good in its first production release and I suspect Vista will be too.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Mines on it's way, should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday. I feel sorry for the saps paying $400 for Ultimate.


----------



## Mark Holtz

Why upgrade? My current system works well.


----------



## Steve Mehs

So does mine, but what fun is that. With that kind of attitude we'd all still be on Windows 95, surf the net 28K dial up and be looking at a 14" 640 x 480 CRT display.


----------



## Ray_Clum

Is Vista truly non-backwards compatible? I've read that Vista won't run old-DOS based software and most Win95 software - is that accurate?


----------



## Smthkd

Im not going to get Vista because it conflicts and is not compatible with most current software I have or older programs. Example. Norton AntiVirus 2007 - Not Compatible; AutoCad 2005 - Not Compatible; Sonic DLA - Possible Conflict; Aethros Client (This is My Wireless Client) - Conflicts + many more. I can't afford to take such a risk lossing all my data because of compatiblility issues!


----------



## Chris Blount

I'm still trying to figure out which version to get. Does the "Ultimate" version have basically everything? Or is it missing some features from "Home Premium"?

This time I want to buy the most featured version. I noticed well after I bought XP Home, I was missing some critical features I need for work stuff.


----------



## BillyT2002

I'm going to buy and install Windows Vista Ultimate on my Dell XPS 600, but I have to be very careful about it and make sure to back up everything i care about, etc. I will be upgrading from Windows XP Pro x64-bit edition and upgrading to the 64-bit edition of Vista.

I need to have the 64-bit edition as I'm a software developer for a medical company in Maine and we will be writing a 64-bit client to our software and I'm pretty much in charge of doing so (though I'll also have two other people working with me who I can delegate parts of the project to). So, in preparation for the project, and also because I got a grotesquely large bonus at work this year, I bought a 3.2 Mhz Duo Core Dell XPS 600 with 4 G of RAM and Windows XP Pro 64-bit Edition on it and I've been learning all of the new 64-bit instructions and API for both Visual Studio and Visual Studio .NET.


----------



## dj76116

BillyT2002 said:


> I'm going to buy and install Windows Vista Ultimate on my Dell XPS 600, but I have to be very careful about it and make sure to back up everything i care about, etc. I will be upgrading from Windows XP Pro x64-bit edition and upgrading to the 64-bit edition of Vista.
> 
> I need to have the 64-bit edition as I'm a software developer for a medical company in Maine and we will be writing a 64-bit client to our software and I'm pretty much in charge of doing so (though I'll also have two other people working with me who I can delegate parts of the project to). So, in preparation for the project, and also because I got a grotesquely large bonus at work this year, I bought a 3.2 Mhz Duo Core Dell XPS 600 with 4 G of RAM and Windows XP Pro 64-bit Edition on it and I've been learning all of the new 64-bit instructions and API for both Visual Studio and Visual Studio .NET.


I would go as far to get a new HD and install it on that and see if it supports all the drivers/software. If not, then plug the other drive in and you're good to go.


----------



## jheda

Chris Blount said:


> I'm still trying to figure out which version to get. Does the "Ultimate" version have basically everything? Or is it missing some features from "Home Premium"?
> 
> This time I want to buy the most featured version. I noticed well after I bought XP Home, I was missing some critical features I need for work stuff.


Chris, so you have a computer brand recco? im buying a new one today with VIIV for hr2o..........


----------



## Cholly

chris1207 said:


> SP1 is conventional wisdom for all MSFT software -- no longer valid. PCWorld is trying to be provactative, albeit lame.
> 
> W2k3 was good in its first production release and I suspect Vista will be too.


Surely you jest! Check Microsofts' upgrade advisor and then decide for yourself. Vista will work fine with new computers preloaded with it, but I wouldn't bet the store on it working with current off the shelf software.


----------



## Kevin Dupuy

Mark Holtz said:


> Why upgrade? My current system works well.


Agree. I feel sorry for those poor peoples actually buying it. Using openSUSE linux 10.2. Does everything Vista does, cheaper, less hardware demanding.


----------



## machavez00

machavez00 said:


>


Anthony from Opie & Anthony succeessfuly loads Vista


----------



## djlong

Kevin: Linux does not and never will pass "the mommy test". I can "get my hands dirty" as I've been in hardware and software literally since the age of 3 and I'm 44 now. My mom, on the other hand, is NOT technically inclined and MOST WIndows customers aren't.


----------



## Chris Blount

Kevin Dupuy said:


> Agree. I feel sorry for those poor peoples actually buying it. Using openSUSE linux 10.2. Does everything Vista does, cheaper, less hardware demanding.


I was always a non-conformist. I used many different operating systems before moving to Windows. The reason? I got sick of walking into a store and not being able to buy software off the shelf.

I like Linux, I really do, but with everything it does do, it won't run Flight Simulator 2007.


----------



## keith_benedict

Cholly said:


> Surely you jest! Check Microsofts' upgrade advisor and then decide for yourself. Vista will work fine with new computers preloaded with it, but I wouldn't bet the store on it working with current off the shelf software.


I ran the Upgrade Wizard and it wasn't able to complete. Ran the install and IT wasn't able to complete. I wound up buying a 300GB hard drive, partitioning it into 2 drives, installing Vista Business on one partition and the latest Longhorn release on the other partition. I'm writing this while working under Vista. I can boot to XP Pro, Vista, or Longhorn. I can honestly say that I haven't been able to see any discernable difference in stability.

The bottom line: If I didn't get this stuff for free, I wouldn't bother with upgrading.

On a side note, everytime I try to run MS Visual Studio 2005 in Longhorn, I get a message that says the program may not be compatible. How's that for irony?


----------



## D*HR-20

keith_benedict said:


> I ran the Upgrade Wizard and it wasn't able to complete. Ran the install and IT wasn't able to complete. I wound up buying a 300GB hard drive, partitioning it into 2 drives, installing Vista Business on one partition and the latest Longhorn release on the other partition. I'm writing this while working under Vista. I can boot to XP Pro, Vista, or Longhorn. I can honestly say that I haven't been able to see any discernable difference in stability.
> 
> The bottom line: If I didn't get this stuff for free, I wouldn't bother with upgrading.
> 
> On a side note, everytime I try to run MS Visual Studio 2005 in Longhorn, I get a message that says the program may not be compatible. How's that for irony?


What are you talking about running Windows XP, Vista, and Longhorn? 
Longhorn was the development code name for Vista.


----------



## keith_benedict

D*HR-20 said:


> What are you talking about running Windows XP, Vista, and Longhorn?
> Longhorn was the development code name for Vista.


Longhorn Server is now the codename for their latest server OS offering. See the following link:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/longhorn/evaluation/overview.mspx

I use that OS for Sharepoint 3 development.


----------



## BillyT2002

On the day when there are as many businesses doing software development in Linux as there are currently who do Windows now, I will re-evaluate my loyalty to Microsoft Windows. Writing Windows software has made me a lot of money in the past twenty five years. (I also say that if Apple gets the businesses to buy in, I'd switch to them too). My guess though, is it just isn't going to happen before I retire at least.


----------



## naijai

i have been through longhorn,RC1,RC2 for Vista and they all work fine save for a few drivers that arent available hence i still have my XP home on my other hard drive and if you looked at the story on the same day they give you multiple reasons to get Vista they cant seem to make up their mind on the issue


----------



## Kevin Dupuy

djlong said:


> Kevin: Linux does not and never will pass "the mommy test". I can "get my hands dirty" as I've been in hardware and software literally since the age of 3 and I'm 44 now. My mom, on the other hand, is NOT technically inclined and MOST WIndows customers aren't.


My mother is 59, has used Windows since she bought her first PC in 2003, and I set her up with SUSE 9.3 in 05, and I just showed her where the browser and email clients were, and she took off with it, never needing my guidance. The days of Linux users having to be technically inclined, at least with most distros, are over. The largest barrier is, 1) Getting used to a new enviroment, which only takes a couple hours, and 2) the software thing. Although, in response to a couple of other posters: no, you can't walk into a computer store and pick up a box of software and run it on Linux, at least not yet, but it is easy to find a, usually free, alternative program, download it, and with most distros, simply double-click, enter a superuser password, and it'll install by itself. 

Check this out
and this


----------



## Mindhaz

So far, not bad. I'm not sure I should say this out loud, but so far Vista has been more trouble than my HR20 ;-)

I have a decent computer... not brand new. It's a Dell XPS 400 (I know MS+Dell makes me a sellout across the board). I'm a MS Developer by trade so I'm at least getting paid reasonably in exchange for my soul. I've had a few quirks and my Web Cam (Logitech 3000) is still dead. The update to fix this still won't apply. I don't know why I care... I never use the stupid thing. The biggest problems I have had are related to hardware going missing from time to time. Vista likes to forget I have things like a keyboard, mouse or ethernet card. I did update some drivers from Dell's website and things appear better, but the jury is still out.

I have my Hauppage 150 connected to an old D* receiver and the lousy ATI HDTV wonder card doing my OTA but I am now getting all channels fed into the Media Center. I'm slowly moving DTV boxes off the grid and replacing them with XBox 360's. The Media Center stuff with Vista is better than with XP.

Aero is nice looking and solitaire (the definitive windows application) rocks... the cards actually get bigger if you maximize the screen. All my applications are running including iTunes which many people are having trouble with. I haven't tried the HR20/VIIV stuff because Media Center already does that stuff pretty well.

Anyway... that's my 2 cents... it's something new to play with and I'd probalby upgrade again if give the chance.


----------



## JM Anthony

My Dell Inspiron E1505 is still running like a champ with RC1. I've got a free upgrade that's in the queue and I'll definitely install it on this laptop. I run XP MCE on our home theater PC and I'll stick with that until some driver issues get sorted out.

John


----------



## Steve Mehs

I'm going to force myself to reinstall Vista, but I'm going to partition my hard drive into two. 125GB for XP and 125GB for Vista. My question is are you limited to the number of times you can activate Windows on the same machine? I've never dealt with activation of any kind before and have no idea how it works.


----------



## Mindhaz

You shouldn't be limited to the number of activiations. If you ever have a problem, call Microsoft. I've done this a few times and have never had a problem getting things activated. I think this process is in place to deter mass fraud, Microsoft just politely flips a switch and apologizes for your inconvenience.


----------



## Mark Holtz

It looks like I'm getting Vista ealier than expected. I'm part of the first group to get Vista PCs in my department.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Mindhaz said:


> You shouldn't be limited to the number of activiations. If you ever have a problem, call Microsoft. I've done this a few times and have never had a problem getting things activated. I think this process is in place to deter mass fraud, Microsoft just politely flips a switch and apologizes for your inconvenience.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## JM Anthony

Mindhaz said:


> ... It's a Dell XPS 400 (I know MS+Dell makes me a sellout across the board).
> ...


Why?? There's nothing wrong with either company. I think people like to bash them just because they are big. Are they perfect?? Heck no. But they don't have bozos at the helm like Enron. I'd be happy to work for Gates, Balmer, or Michael Dell.

I've spent a fair amount of time on the MSFT campus and they've got some really good people to work with on both the technology and business side of the house. They also give back to the community. One of their VP's has kids that have gone through our high school. He's by far and away the largest contributor to our foundation. MSFT also sponsored getting free WiFi set up at one of our county parks. They are also heavily involved in emergency management and cyber security as good corporate citizens.

A few years ago, we standardized behind Dell at work (roughly 10K desktops) and they've done right by us. Better than any of the other vendors we took a look at.

John


----------



## DonLandis

John- In addition to what you said, there have been many complaints about Dell tech support being incompetent, mainly because they are off-shore. I found out at Dell booth at CES that if you own an XPS series, your tech support call will be routed to a US tech. For whatever that's worth... 

My only experience with Dell tech support was with my DLP projector. I just wanted to buy a dongle adapter for RGB and it took me no less than 45 minutes explaining to the CSR what it was I wanted. It was a language problem! Once he understood, he was able to give me the unpublished SKU number to order it. I have not had any reason to call for tech support on my Dell XPS1210 since it works perfectly!


----------



## JM Anthony

Don - that's a good point. I'm no fan of off shore call centers and my experience with them has been a mixed bag. Especially on technology related issues, clear communication is pretty critical and can cause problems regardless of technical competency or intent. 

Not to hijack the thread, but when I do have problem with any of our hardware at home (we're pretty much all Dell), the tech support staff are generally good and I always get an e-mail asking for feedback after the call. In the one instance where things got totally screwy, the escalation CSR sent me a coupon for $100 off their products and a follow up e-mail apologizing for the inconvenience. Good recovery.

John


----------



## Bogy

I have 3 desktops and a laptop at home running XP and another laptop with XPMCE, bridged with the network here in the office with 2 desktops with XP Pro. Everything is working. The only thing that might tempt me is the limited time offer for multiple licenses with the purchase of Ultimate, but with a 2 kids in college and another in the Peace Corps getting my support, purchasing an operating system that I really don't need is not that high on my priority list. When I can't play the latest Doom or Fear editions on XP I'll get Vista.  Or when I buy a new computer.


----------



## CoriBright

Yesterday I installed Vista as a dual boot on what I generally refer to as the Test PC... which currently runs XP x64. It went so well I upgraded hubby's PC to Vista... and then my Toshiba notebook. Other than having to force install of nVidia on the Toshiba (it's got a GeForce Go 7900GS and Toshiba are far too lazy to write drivers), I had to cheat it into thinking it was a 'real' PCI-E card... oh and the Bluetooth Stack was a PITA to find, it turned up at the German Toshiba site. Other than that, everything is running perfectly.

All ran NOD32 A/V and that had to be uninstalled before installing Vista, but it reinstalled fine after. 

For the two desktops, the only driver it didn't have was the Asus Soundmax for hubby's PC and the XP version eventually installed... Asus have no Vista drivers for his motherboard and again, we're into the 'oh we'll get around to it eventually' school of thought in writing them. All printers work, any PC can print to any printer. 

The one downside is that my ATI eHome Wonder and HDTV Wonder tuner cards on my desktop MCE aren't supported by Vista... (at least according to ATI they're not) so that one will have to wait until I get the Hauppauge Hybrid 1600... and gain one of those valuable PCI slots back!!!

The one notebook that just about runs XP won't be upgraded, it's just too old, and the Server is happily running Windows Server 2003 R2 64 bit so that's staying just as it is for now.

I'm very pleased with how smoothly everything has gone. Now that could mean doom and gloom for my MCE, but so far, I'm very happy. And Gadgets are VERY COOL.


----------



## DonLandis

Everything I am hearing about Vista upgrade says ---don't do it. OK to buy a new PC that is tested by the manufacturer to run Vista, second best is to install it on a clean hard drive on a "Vista ready" computer, preserving your original XP OS drive as a backup. But avoid, always, upgrading to an older computer. I'm hearing many horror stories lately from people, mostly computer knowledgeable but not nerds, whoi are spending hundreds of $$ to fix what they broke. Heard another today and it was really sad tale from a guy who really can't afford the trip to the cleaners he is on now with the PC repair guys. 
I'm telling everyone who asks to only go with Vista installed on a new computer from the store, but unless you really know computer OS and installation procedures with Vista, which now includes verification of the hardware compatibility, to not attempt the upgrade.


----------



## JM Anthony

Don,

I'm not sure where the expense comes in if you upgrade to Vista and then for some reason find out it's not your cup of tea. Reverting back to XP isn't that much of a PITA.

As long as your "old" gear has reasonable muscle, why not upgrade?? I'm waiting for MSFT to announce the details behind the family pack and then will probably upgrade our remaining two laptops and desktop to Vista. 

John


----------



## DonLandis

John- at minimum, it is the expense of purchasing that copy of Vista you can't use! A friend of mine is into it for much more since he has hired a PC repair guy to reinstall and recover his drive data for him. In the end, he will be back to where he started and just a few hundred dollars thinner. I still say the best way to run Vista for most people is to buy a new machine with it designed to run Vista. 

John, I wouldn't have any reservations about upgrading my one computer to Vista, my XPS1210 because it is certified to be Vista ready by Dell. I also have the 2 G of ram and bought the top graphics card. BUT, I want to hear from anyone what this upgrade will get me as an advantage over Windows XP. So far, i have been asking this same question over and over and no one, including you have offered any compelling reason to make that switch / upgrade. Where is the ROI? Different GUI is not good enough. 
1. Does Vista offer more efficient use of hard drive capacity for my laptop as compared to XP?
2. Does Vista make my main time consuming applications, the rendering of video in Vegas, faster? Will Vegas even run flawlessly under Vista?
3. Does Vista run without the need to buy a virus scanner membership?
4. Will Vista auto sync with my home computer without the need for fancy configuration setup I need to figure out?
5. Will Vista do what GoToMyPC does so I can save the annual cost of that service?

There are five questions that I would like answered to assist in what I would like to have that would make Vista a consideration for me.


----------



## CoriBright

1. Yes
2. Ask Vegas Video manufacturers. Or someone on a Vegas forum who has already tried. I can tell you most of my encoding softwares run much faster but I don't use Vegas.
3. No.. it includes Windows Defender (antispyware) but if you want A/V, buy one yourself. Symantec intended to sue MS for billions if MS included A/V.
4. Sync exactly what? Impossible to answer without more info
5. Remote Desktop.... depending on which version of Vista you get

For your friend..... he can return the product to MS and get a full refund. 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.asp


----------



## JM Anthony

DonLandis said:


> ... I still say the best way to run Vista for most people is to buy a new machine with it designed to run Vista. ...


Don, I agree with this philosophy 100%, especially for the masses. I also think people/corporations who upgrade to every new release of Office must have deep pockets and rocks in their heads.

For me, I like the look and feel of Vista. Now that I've used it for a while, navigation and features make more sense to me than they did initially. I'm convinced that MSFT will continue to refine the base product over time.

If you've got a test machine and you want to tinker around with it, drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you the RC1 disk I've got and you can hack around with it. The license covers 10 installs, so you'll have no issues there.

In my case, I'm mostly interested in what they do with the media center capabilities. I run MCE 2005 on my home theater PC and am looking to replace that with Vista just as soon as some of the driver issues get sorted out.

John


----------



## Cholly

Another article suggesting a wait and see attitude on Vista. This originally appeared in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/16674303.htm


----------



## JM Anthony

Yeah, Charley and this guy probably doubles as their restaurant reviewer. Here's a link that will get you to some totally unbiased information on the benefits of Vista.

Happy reading!!

John


----------



## DonLandis

John- Thanks for the offer but I really don't have the time to tinker. Got 13 shows shot, needing edited and they have to be done by the end of the month. 

As for your "needs" from what I saw at CES MS demo sessions, Yes, a home media center will sing with Vista, especially on a HTPC and a media server for your LAN. No doubt about that. I don't use a HTPC and don't intend to. I'm quite happy with the HT system I have now. Of the 13 PC's including 1 MAC, I have now 9 are designed for video editing of SD video and 1 for HD video. So that is why I wanted to see how Vista could improve my work place. As for the deep pockets companies, You must be aware that these companies, including where my wife works buys the annual licences for the latest software, and for many workstations. I don't recall what it is but it is far less than buying a copy like we would for every machine. Its a blanket license type thing.


----------



## JM Anthony

In another 20 minutes, I'll be running a production version of Vista on my desktop. I got a full version of Ultimate for $75 and I'm taking advantage of the family pack offering. I'm upgrading the desktop to Home Premium for $50. I think it's a smart strategy for MSFT to offer packaged upgrades like this directly. 

Unless your wife's company just has money to burn and isn't overly concerned about staff downtime with upgrades, you might want to suggest they take a look at their licensing strategy. Even if the upgrades are less expensive than their retail brothern, it begs the question about how much value you're getting with the software upgrades in the first place. 

Your original premise on O/S strategy is correct, Don. And when it comes to Office, a strategy that has you upgrading every other version when you replace your hardware (assuming 4-5 yr. replacement cycle) works well, especially if you have your vendor installing your then standard s/w image for you.

John


----------



## DonLandis

I understand many companies use the blanket licensing when they run 150+ computers.


----------



## CoriBright

DonLandis said:


> I understand many companies use the blanket licensing when they run 150+ computers.


It's called Volume Licensing and starts at just 5 licenses... and not all have to be an O/S.. for example it could be three licenses for Vista and two for Office.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/default.mspx


----------



## JM Anthony

Upgrade went smooth as silk. Absolutely no issues and this was with a desktop that's probably 3 years old. Vista runs like a champ!!

The agency I worked with had thousands of desktops (10K IIRC) and we were covered by an Enterprise Agreement with MSFT. These agreements are a very expensive way to manage desktop O/S and Office requirements, especially when upgrades drag on as was the case with XP. 

John


----------



## Cholly

John, I'll cheerfully grant that many users will have no problem installing Vista. However, folks with entry level systems (onboard graphics, 512K or less RAM) will find themselves in for some sticker shock, assunimg they've had the wisdom to run the upgrade advisor and performed a full system backupprior to going ahead with the install. If they weren't wise, they'll really have problems.
Here's an article by Preston Gralla, author of "Windows Vista in a Nutshell", entitled "Hidden Costs of a Windows Vista Upgrade". Caveat Emptor.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/128930-1/article.html?tk=nl_dnxnws


----------



## JM Anthony

If you have an entry level system, the issue is pretty simple - Don't upgrade!!!. Anyone who incrementally upgrades a basic desktop these days has rocks in their head. They also have a couple of screws loose for buying an entry system in the first place.

John


----------



## Nick

I agree with your first point, John, but for those people who just want to do email
and surf a few web sites, a basic "entry-level" system is fine. I have a friend who
just uses her pc to play Solitaire and another who plays Bingo online. I also have
two correspondents who use WebTV. 

Go Figure. :shrug:


----------



## Capmeister

Cholly said:


> John, I'll cheerfully grant that many users will have no problem installing Vista. However, folks with entry level systems (onboard graphics, 512K or less RAM) will find themselves in for some sticker shock, assunimg they've had the wisdom to run the upgrade advisor and performed a full system backupprior to going ahead with the install. If they weren't wise, they'll really have problems.
> Here's an article by Preston Gralla, author of "Windows Vista in a Nutshell", entitled "Hidden Costs of a Windows Vista Upgrade". Caveat Emptor.
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/128930-1/article.html?tk=nl_dnxnws


512 *K*?

I do believe my PHONE has more memory than that.


----------



## Cholly

Capmeister said:


> 512 *K*?
> 
> I do believe my PHONE has more memory than that.


:blush: :icon_lol: :whatdidid :rolling: Slip of the finger, I guess. Never make a post when you're tired! I had a PCjr with more memory than that!


----------



## JM Anthony

Nick said:


> I agree with your first point, John, but for those people who just want to do email
> and surf a few web sites, a basic "entry-level" system is fine. I have a friend who
> just uses her pc to play Solitaire and another who plays Bingo online. I also have
> two correspondents who use WebTV.
> 
> Go Figure. :shrug:


Good point. But I'll bet for every one of those users who use their PC for intermittent, low end use; I'll be you'll find a bunch more who discover their PC can actually be used for other things, end up upgrading, and at much more expense than if they'd made the incremental jump when they first ordered the system.

John


----------



## rdr

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


----------



## Cholly

At the risk of being identified as being a naysaying curmudgeon, here's yet another article about the woes of people upgrading to Vista -- this time, hard core gamers.
Seems that Vista just isn't ready for Prime Time. Even with new drivers from the peripheral manufacturers, the problems these folks are having won't go away. To me, this bears some resemblance to the Windows ME and BOB debacles. I was assured by a Microsoft rep that ME fixed the USB problems that existed in Windows 98, and bought it. WRONG! It was less stable than 98 and I quickly uninstalled it.

Read on: http://www.pcworld.com/article/128961-1/article.html?tk=nl_dnxnws


----------



## JM Anthony

Charlie - While it's good to get different perspectives on issues like this, I'm not sure gamers' views have much to do with mainstream computing. 

It seems like you're trying to mount a campaign against Vista based only on what you've read in various rags. If you're that concerned about the quality of the product, why not go out and buy a copy, the upgrades aren't that expensive. Heck, I'll even send you my RC1 disk and you can install Ultimate and tinker with it free of charge before it expires. Hell, I'll even pay the postage.

No one, even MSFT, has said this is a perfect product. I've already received a couple of automatic updates, one of which dealt with driver issues, one of the weak links in any major upgrade. My HTPC has (had now) an M-Audio card in it. I spoke with the manufacturer's tech staff a couple of weeks ago and they have no idea when they'll put out new drivers. Is that MSFT's problem?? Of course not. Does it cause problems with upgrading to Vista?? Sure.

Life doesn't always give us clear cut choices. This is one of those where if you believe the benefits you'll receive from the upgrade are greater than the cost and you've got the disposable income to support the decision (and you have 5 versions of Vista with different price points to deal with), then you'll make the jump.

IIRC, 80 some percent of MSFT's revenue from O/S comes from OEM installations, not from upgrades. What I find most interesting about Vista is all of the different options MSFT has set up for those who do want to upgrade. Provides interesting grist for the mill if you want to speculate about where MSFT is going with their future product.

John


----------



## Cholly

John-- yup, I've read quite a few articles about Vista -- some of which rave, and others that rant. For the most part, they were written by people well respected in the PC field. My purpose in starting this thread and posting links to negative comments is to make others aware that the OS is not without its problems, and definitely is not for everyone. If that amounts to mounting a campaign against Vista, so be it. Microsoft has been aggressively promoting Vista just about everywhere, and Joe Average might just be sucked in by their marketing hype. They haven't done a good job of advising people to run the Upgrade Advisor *before* purchasing Vista. This has resulted in a lot of people having had a very bad upgrade experience. Even if they open the package and run the Advisor, they may well discover that their computer (which may be only 6 months old) isn't capable of running Vista without extensive upgrades. Is Vista a good OS? I'm certain it is. There are a lot of folks like you who have upgraded to Vista and had no problems whatsoever or very minor problems.
As for me, I have three computers running XP Service pack 2 (to be correct, one of them is running MCE2005 Service pack 2 and the others are running XP Home).
I've run Vista Upgrade advisor on my HTPC, which is my most used system, and there are both hardware and software issues. There are (presently) incompatibility issues with my AverMedia MCE500 TV/FM tuner card and with the network controller on my motherboard. There are driver issues with my ATI Radeon 9550 graphics card and my Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse. 
If I were to upgrade, it would only be on my HTPC, and I suspect that I'd have to upgrade from 1 GB to two GB of RAM. That would require the purchase of two 1 GB memory modules, since my motherboard has only 2 memory slots and each has a 512 GB module installed. Also, the upgrade path would have to be to Vista Premium. I'm not prepared to drop over $200 at this point in time.


----------



## JM Anthony

I disagree with you that they're not doing a good job of telling folks about Upgrade Advisor. It's right there on MSFT's primary web page on Vista info. And if someone buys Vista without going through UA first, it's one of the first options they see in the installation menu. If it turns out they have issues, they can get a refund and return the product.

Like you, my primary target for Vista is my HTPC which is also running MCE 2005 SP2. Like you, right now I have some driver issues (HDTV card), so I'm not installing Vista on it at the present time. Mine is set up with 2 gigs of RAM so I'm ready to rock and roll once the driver issues are resolved. Best guess, another couple of months.

So when everything is said and done, our perspectives on Vista aren't all that different. LOL

John


----------



## Geronimo

JM Anthony said:


> Good point. But I'll bet for every one of those users who use their PC for intermittent, low end use; I'll be you'll find a bunch more who discover their PC can actually be used for other things, end up upgrading, and at much more expense than if they'd made the incremental jump when they first ordered the system.
> 
> John


Bu some low end systems are so cheap that these users wind up just buying another more owerful one when they outgrow it. Many of these buyers are not computer literate. they could spend twice as much and still not ge something that can be upgraded--or they fear that. So they go low end and hope that advancing technology and declining priced will be their friend in the end.


----------



## Cholly

JM Anthony said:


> I disagree with you that they're not doing a good job of telling folks about Upgrade Advisor. It's right there on MSFT's primary web page on Vista info. And if someone buys Vista without going through UA first, it's one of the first options they see in the installation menu. If it turns out they have issues, they can get a refund and return the product.
> John


John: My point about Upgrade advisor relates to the retail environment and their advertising. Certainly, folks like us check the MS web site, but I fear we are in the minority. If Joe Average has dialup, he will hesitate before downloading UA. And if he goes in to CC, BB or WalMart do you really think anyone is going to volunteer that info? Furthermore, these stores have a no return policy for opened software. Hence my comment.


----------



## dave1234

I tried a version of Vista RC1. One very usefull feature of Vista is related to hardware checking. The drive I installed it on was a known flakey drive. Vista immediately warned me the drive was sick and to backup my work. I did not get the same warning from XP, it just refused to boot one day. I don't have a big need to upgrade but thought the error checking was very valuable.


----------



## jrbdmb

From the article above:



> There are two levels of Vista hardware compatibility: "Vista Capable," and "Vista Premium Ready." Forget Vista Capable; it won't run Aero, and if you can't run Aero, you shouldn't bother upgrading to Windows Vista.


So is the upgrade to Vista really only for a prettier user inferface? Or is this just another mis-informed reporter?

Edit - the article on PC World points to "15 reasons to buy Vista". "Better Security" sounds nice, but MS says that for every version of Windows.  Throw out the "pretty interface" reasons, and all you're left with if some new / better MS apps that one can easily find 3rd party XP programs for. (Example, thought that the Vista clock / calendar / notepad on the desktop was neat - so I installed Yahoo Widgets to get the same function in XP.)

I know that eventually I'll have to move my new laptop to Vista, but I'm coming around to the idea that there is no reason to rush.


----------



## BobaBird

Out of curiosity, I downloaded and ran the Upgrade Advisor. I'm also in no rush as it hasn't been that long since I replaced Me with XP, though I wouldn't turn it down if it happened to be on a new HTPC or Qosmio that got left at my doorstep . Along with enough warnings about hardware and software to make the idea not worth it for me to pursue, I got a recommendation to order the CD version because I don't have a DVD-ROM. Shhhh... no one tell my G: drive .


----------



## JM Anthony

FWIW - I'm not sure I'd take what I read in the trade magazines as the gospel. Their writers don't get paid to tell "the truth" (whatever that is), but rather they're paid to sell magazines. Read what IT research firms have to say if you want the unvarnished truth. Gartner, one of the largest indepdent research and consulting firms gives Vista decent, but certainly not glowing marks. For large organizations, they're recommending 18 month or so planning processes to ease the migration. They do conclude that most organization will migrate to Vista.

Still no problems with either my laptop which is running RC1 or my 3 y.o desktop that's running Home Premium. Both have been rock solid since my installs. The only issue I've had to deal with is getting the latest version of McAfee (8.5) which supports Vista. My desktop isn't a particularly high end machine - stock Dell graphics card, 1 Gig of RAM, 120 GB hard drive.

John


----------



## HIPAR

JM Anthony said:


> They do conclude that most organization will migrate to Vista.


I 'm always amused by the concept of migration. I envision herds of beasts going somewhere without knowing exactly where they are going. Maybe they might find greener pastures but certainly a few will perish during the march.. like getting washed away by a raging river they are not strong enough to ford.

--- CHAS


----------



## JM Anthony

HIPAR said:


> I 'm always amused by the concept of migration. I envision herds of beasts going somewhere without knowing exactly where they are going. Maybe they might find greener pastures but certainly a few will perish during the march.. like getting washed away by a raging river they are not strong enough to ford.
> 
> --- CHAS


Well, that's one of the reasons Gartner recommends organizations maintain _relatively_ homogeneous environments. The more diverse, the greater the opportunity for mishaps of one nature or another.

John


----------



## NYSmoker

Chris Blount said:


> I will be buying mine. Can't stand not being on the cutting edge of this stuff.


If you used a Mac/OSX you would have been on this edge five years ago.


----------



## bidger

With a 400MHz processor? I don't think so.


----------



## Jeremy W

NYSmoker said:


> If you used a Mac/OSX you would have been on this edge five years ago.


OS X was barely even with XP five years ago, let alone Vista. 10.4 is the only one you could even begin to compare with Vista, and 10.5 is the one that is really a competitor.


----------



## Kevin Dupuy

Jeremy W said:


> OS X was barely even with XP five years ago, let alone Vista. 10.4 is the only one you could even begin to compare with Vista, and 10.5 is the one that is really a competitor.


Don't know about 'cutting edge', but I have been having all features on openSUSE Linux since 10.1 last year.


----------



## Jim Parker

The hard drive controller on the motherboard of my home computer began to fail about 3 months ago, and completely failed in mid Jan. I decided to upgrade to a Dell 410.

When I got it, I hooked it up and got an error message that the Roxio driver for the DVD was not stable and was being disabled. The computer was very unstable, with frequent crashes and slooooow (4 min to load Word). 

I called Dell tech support and we installed the Dell Connect which is supposed to let him look at my computer. It would not work. It took him 40 minutes to give up on that and another 30 to figure out which of the 7 Roxio programs was causing the problem.

I ordered the 410 with one hard drive, intending to install the 200g drive from the old computer in the new one. Well, I didn't think about the differences in cables, so that did not work. I took the 200g drive to work and installed it in an older computer, copied the files to my 6 month old Dell 380 and burned 5 DVDs. 

All 5 of the of the DVDs showed the files on them at work, but only one on the new 410. So, I copied the files at work on to the laptop and brought it home. I spend an hour trying to get Vista to connect to the lap top. I gave up on that and finally used the USB thumb drive.

I bought a 200g SATA drive and installed it. Bios recognized it, but Explorer did not. While I had tech support on the phone, I asked about it. He got me into Disk Management and tried to format the drive, but I had already tried that. He puts me on hold, and while waiting, I noticed that the disk was not initialized. He came back on and I told him about the initialization problem. He insisted that was not the problem, but I figured out how it initialize it and then I could format the disk. 

Bottom line: even tech support is not up to speed with Vista yet.


----------



## Jeremy W

Jim Parker said:


> even tech support is not up to speed with Vista yet.


Tech support isn't even up to speed with XP.


----------



## JcT21

i upgraded to vista home premium. i already had 2gb of ram running xp sp2. vista runs smooth and i have only minor driver issues, but nothing as drastic as the horror stories ive read about vista. found my modem works perfectly with xp drivers installed but my tv tuner card just wont work... other than that, vista seems to be ok. i have received several updates too via the auto update. i find its every bit as fast as xp was and ... do i dare say it ... its pretty to look at .lol

i agree that vista is very demanding and there are many more services running than xp has. like xp, most can be safely disabled. but doing so, i cant really tell any gain in performance. i also have vista installed on my old hp 304w model. got it back when xp sp1 was the latest thing going. it has a 1.33ghz cpu and 1gb memory. vista runs ok with readyboost enabled ... take that out and its a lil slower. 

im currently running vista on my 2.4ghz cpu, ati x1300 video, 2gb ram, *build it yourself pc*. runs perfect. i think the 2gb is the sweet spot for vista. like they say 512 was for xp. however ... 512 to 2gb is a huge leap and its that large gap in hardware requirements that i think is going to turn a lot of people away from vista. i know pc's are cheaper today than ever before but ... like ive read so far .. these people with 6 month old pc's that have 512mb of ram & integrated video are gonna expect it to run vista, when in reality, if it does, its not gonna be very good.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Well right now I'm running Vista without too much anger, for a change. Turns out if you enable the Administrator account and log on as Administrator, UAC alerts go bye bye altogether, Creative finally released final drivers for my sound card. After playing with some setting it sounds better, but still sound quality is much better with the drivers for XP from back in 2003, but I can live. My HP wireless printer works, only thing I’d like is the software for my wireless keyboard and mouse so I can get the onscreen alerts when the batteries are running low and to enable me to use the multimedia functions on the keyboard, but the volume control works, so it’s good enough. I’m only planning on using this computer another 9 months so it’s really no big deal. I’m even running the stupid aero theme. I’m really surprised at is how much better (less clunky) Office runs on Vista, which is probably one of my biggest motivations for continuing to run it, other the fact I bought it.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve Mehs said:


> Turns out if you enable the Administrator account and log on as Administrator, UAC alerts go bye bye altogether


All of your security goes bye bye as well. Good move!


----------



## Mark Holtz

Well, my home system went belly-up over the weekend, so I'm having to build a new system. So, I guess I'm putting Vista on a drive in a caddy.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Jeremy W said:


> All of your security goes bye bye as well. Good move!


I've been running as Administrator since Windows 2000 and have yet to have a problem. I don't believe in antivirus software either and Internet Explorer has been my default internet browser since 1996. I know what I'm doing, I don't need to be babysat. I don't do stupid things on the internet, no porn, no IM, no online poker, no surveys, etc I probably vistit less then 30 websites in a month all can be trusted. I'll give up some 'security' that doesn't apply to me in exchange for not being asked if I want to run MS Paint or to confirm that I want to defrag my hard drive.


----------



## JM Anthony

Last week I got my Vista upgrade disks from Dell (I'd been running RC1 on my laptop) and the upgrade process was flawless. I have had no problems with both of my installations. I think this has been MSFT's best O/S release. I'm still waiting for some driver issues to get sorted out on my HTPC, but I suspect I'll upgrade it in the next few months.

John


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve Mehs said:


> I'll give up some 'security' that doesn't apply to me in exchange for not being asked if I want to run MS Paint or to confirm that I want to defrag my hard drive.


You don't get a UAC prompt when starting MS Paint, and defrag is scheduled to run by default every week. You get a UAC prompt if you want to defrag manually, but how often do you actually do that? People like you who blow UAC's annoyingness way out of proportion do nothing to help the community, and actually hurt it. People will see all of these posts about how you have to accept a UAC prompt when opening Paint or to check their e-mail, and then just turn it off without even giving it a chance. And unlike you, they may not be able to handle the responsibility of running as a full admin with no protection.

Now that I've got Vista running the way I want it, I don't even get a UAC prompt every day. I'd say I get prompted 3 times per week, tops. It's a very small price to pay for a giant increase in security.


----------



## Steve Mehs

No, it doesn’t ask you to confirm running Paint, I was blowing it out of proportion because I think UAC is retarded and the worst ‘feature’ on the planet. I wouldn't mind the UAC (so much) if it was like Zone Alarm (which I refuse to use now since it turned into bloatware) and had an option to remember your response and not ask again. I really this is pointless anyhow. The same idiot who goes to a website and clicks yes to install a free porn screen saver will more then likely also click Allow when the UAC window pops up.

Yes I want to run msconfig, yes I want to run secpol.msc, yes I want to run control userpasswords2, it gets annoying after a while and I can live without it. Having to confirm iTunes installation with UAC enabled is just asinine.


----------



## Chris Blount

I upgraded my Win XP home built machine to Vista Ultimate over the weekend. The machine is an AMD 3500+ with 1 GB of RAM.

Upgrade took 2 1/2 hours. No problems.

A couple of driver issues but were easily cleared with downloads.

Overall, I think the OS looks and works fairly well. No major problems. A little slower than XP but that is probably due to only having 1 GB of RAM. I plan to upgrade and then load Vista from scratch. Just wanted to see how it would handle an upgrade from XP. 

Advice? As long as your running a clean system and your computer isn't too old, running the upgrade is nothing to be afraid of. Just back everything up.


----------



## Phil T

I am disappointed with my upgrade to Vista basic. I have a HP 3800+ AMB 1GB Ram. 

I bought the basic since I already had XP Media Center, IE7 and WMP11 and assumed they would just upgrade.

The update adviser recommended Vista Professional but said I could run Basic. 

When installing the update the choice to upgrade was grayed out and I could only do a new install and had to reinstall all of my programs which was a real pain. I wanted Vista because my daughter has it on another PC and a local CompUSA was going out of business and had the upgrade for $67.00.

Anyway, the way I did it was a real pain. I did finally get my photos and music back on my HR20 after many hours of hassle.


----------



## harsh

Chris Blount said:


> Overall, I think the OS looks and works fairly well. No major problems. A little slower than XP but that is probably due to only having 1 GB of RAM. I plan to upgrade and then load Vista from scratch. Just wanted to see how it would handle an upgrade from XP.


The other big caveat is that you don't want to install just for the heck of it. There are a limited number of installs that you can do with most versions of Vista and after you run out, you must buy another copy.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> The other big caveat is that you don't want to install just for the heck of it. There are a limited number of installs that you can do with most versions of Vista and after you run out, you must buy another copy.


That's not true. It doesn't count installs, it counts activations. After you install, you have 30 days to activate Windows. If you reinstall before you activate, it is not counted against you. It's a good idea not to activate until you're sure you've got everything running the way you like it. Also, if you run out of activations, you can call Microsoft to activate it. You don't have to buy a new copy.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> That's not true. It doesn't count installs, it counts activations.


I stand amended.


----------



## JM Anthony

Chris Blount said:


> ... Overall, I think the OS looks and works fairly well. No major problems. A little slower than XP but that is probably due to only having 1 GB of RAM. I plan to upgrade and then load Vista from scratch. Just wanted to see how it would handle an upgrade from XP.
> 
> Advice? As long as your running a clean system and your computer isn't too old, running the upgrade is nothing to be afraid of. Just back everything up.


I've upgraded two of our systems at home without any issues at all. Both have 2GB of RAM. Vista is faster than XP in that environment. And Office 2007 pops. I still have my HTPC to go, but I've got a few driver issues to sort out so that probably won't happen for another couple of months.

I think Vista has been MSFT's best O/S release. I've been using it day in and day out for months without any issues. None. Nada. Zlich.

John


----------



## cclement

JM said:


> I think Vista has been MSFT's best O/S release. I've been using it day in and day out for months without any issues. None. Nada. Zlich.


I completely agree. I bought a new desktop with Vista on it and then installed Vista on 2 laptops, each with only 1 GB of RAM and all 3 have run flawlessly.


----------



## Chris Blount

As a follow up, I upgraded my machine to 2 GB of RAM. Definitely a difference. Bootup time is much quicker and application run smooth. Just for fun, I plugged in a 2 GB USB drive and activated the ReadyBoost feature. Actually it was quite amazing the difference. Applications start and run even faster than without (not much though).

Overall, my system now runs quicker than XP ever did.


----------



## harsh

Chris Blount said:


> Overall, my system now runs quicker than XP ever did.


Did you ever give XP 2GB of ram to work with? Computer platform performance is relative and depends largely on applying the right operating system and software to the task.

It has been my experience that each new version of Windows, regardless of what Microsoft claims, ends up being noticeably slower.


----------



## SubaruWRX

Did you all hear about the news with Dell going back to offering systems with XP instead of Vista so the buyers can have an option of what they want.


----------



## Jeremy W

SubaruWRX said:


> Did you all hear about the news with Dell going back to offering systems with XP instead of Vista so the buyers can have an option of what they want.


Yes, and I think it's a horrible move. Sometimes progress has to be pushed along, and Vista is progress. Dell is just trying to grab back the marketshare they've been losing lately.


----------



## Steve Mehs

I remember a few months after Windows ME was released, venders started offering 98SE again. Could Vista be the next ME?


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve Mehs said:


> I remember a few months after Windows ME was released, venders started offering 98SE again. Could Vista be the next ME?


If it does become the next ME, it'll only be because of the massive volume of ignorant FUD being spewed against it. Vista is a great upgrade to XP, and there are a lot of people out there who don't want that to be known.


----------



## cdru

Jeremy W said:


> Yes, and I think it's a horrible move. Sometimes progress has to be pushed along, and Vista is progress. Dell is just trying to grab back the marketshare they've been losing lately.


Vista is progress. And for the home user, it will be a change but I don't think it's a huge deal. But there are thousands of companies out there that were XP based and can not just switch over on a moments notice (or even a few months notice) and get all critical applications test and approved to work with Vista.


----------



## Jeremy W

cdru said:


> But there are thousands of companies out there that were XP based and can not just switch over on a moments notice (or even a few months notice) and get all critical applications test and approved to work with Vista.


That's fine, but two things: One, Dell only made this change on their Home site AFAIK. Two, businesses like that would just load up any machine they receive with their standard image and not even worry about what OS it comes with.


----------



## Mark Holtz

There is still some software incompatibility between released software and Vista.


----------



## Jeremy W

Mark Holtz said:


> There is still some software incompatibility between released software and Vista.


That's true, but the fault lies with the software makers. They need to get on the ball.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> That's true, but the fault lies with the software makers. They need to get on the ball.


In my case the software maker that I have the most trouble with is Microsoft.


----------



## Jeremy W

harsh said:


> In my case the software maker that I have the most trouble with is Microsoft.


What Microsoft software do you have that won't run on Vista?


----------



## Nick

Jeremy W said:


> Yes, and I think it's a horrible move. Sometimes progress has to be pushed along, and Vista is progress. Dell is just trying to grab back the marketshare they've been losing lately.


Obviously, you are emotionally invested in this upgrade. Not every one wants to "be pushed along". After all, progress, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.



SubaruWRX said:


> Did you all hear about the news with Dell going back to offering systems with XP...


When you make statements like this, you need to quote your source, otherwise it's just a rumor.


----------



## harsh

Jeremy W said:


> What Microsoft software do you have that won't run on Vista?


My biggest frustration is VFP6. Obviously, it isn't the latest release, but because Microsoft development tools are a moving target, it is what I'm stuck with. Others have severe issues with Visual BASIC software.


----------



## harsh

Nick said:


> When you make statements like this, you need to quote your source, otherwise it's just a rumor.


Here's a report from the U.S. News & World report website:


USNews said:


> Dell to Offer XP as Vista Alternative
> By David LaGesse
> Posted 4/20/07
> 
> In a setback to Microsoft's efforts to push its new operating system, Dell Inc. said yesterday that it would begin offering Windows XP as an alternative to Windows Vista on some consumer PCs. The announcement followed steady demands made on a Dell support forum, where consumers complained that Vista created too many problems for them with old software and hardware.


Doesn't seem like an unsubstantiated rumor to me.


----------



## Herdfan

harsh said:


> Doesn't seem like an unsubstantiated rumor to me.


http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/winxp_dimen?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

It was a good business decision. I just ordered a new Dell laptop with XP. I was going to order a Toshiba from CDW.


----------



## Steve Mehs

> Vista is a great upgrade to XP, and there are a lot of people out there who don't want that to be known.


Says you. But then again it seems like you are married to Vista or something. IMO, Vista isn't a bad OS, but it isn't a good one either. The Best OS on the planet, Windows 2000 Professional. No nonsense, no frills, rock solid, reliable as the day is long. I run Vista and Office 2007, not because they're so great, but because they are the latest and 'greatest' and are the future, so I might as well get used to it. You can stop your crusade about Vista being the best thing ever, people will upgrade either when they're ready or forced to.


----------



## JM Anthony

cdru said:


> Vista is progress. And for the home user, it will be a change but I don't think it's a huge deal. But there are thousands of companies out there that were XP based and can not just switch over on a moments notice (or even a few months notice) and get all critical applications test and approved to work with Vista.


For large companies, especially with an o/s, there is almost never a good reason to change over night. Upgrading an o/s for thousands of machines is stupid unless you have money to burn, love MSFT, and don't care about end user productivity. A much better case exists for maintaining 2 o/s and then merging to one when you replace equipment.

Any TCO (total cost of ownership) study will tell you that the largest cost component is time, and typically end user time. Every time to screw around with the desktop you adversely affect end user productivity at the enterprise level.

John


----------



## Steve Mehs

Here's an interestring read.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39087


----------



## JM Anthony

Steve Mehs said:


> Here's an interestring read.
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39087


I'll rush right out tomorrow and sell my MSFT stock.

If someone wants to buy a bare bones system (remember the network PC??) then you're not going to have the best luck running Vista on it so running XP isn't that bad a choice. It's still under support for the next 5 or so years if I remember right.

Gartner, a well respected global IT research and consulting firm, gives Vista generally good marks. But their advice for it is the same as it was of XP and all major o/s releases. If you're going to do an enterprise install, wait for SP 1, and do plenty of testing.

John


----------



## funhouse69

Well it looks like Windows XP Still Rules - Dell is now offering it again to Home and Small Business Customers. Check out the article here.
http://news.com.com/Dell+brings+back+XP+on+home+systems/2100-1046_3-6177619.html?tag=nefd.pop


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve Mehs said:


> Here's an interestring read.
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39087


Oh, well if the Inquirer says it, you just *know* it's nothing but the truth!


----------



## Steve Mehs

Did I say it was the truth? No. I said it was interesting. And besides, I don't know what you’re thinking of but this Inquirer is from overseas and is a part of VNU Net, a legitimate tech publisher in the UK, just like Ziff Davis is here the States. Nielsen Media Research is also apart of VNU. So Nielsen Media Research is a sister project of The Inquirer.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve Mehs said:


> I don't know what you're thinking of but this Inquirer is from overseas and is a part of VNU Net, a legitimate tech publisher in the UK, just like Ziff Davis is here the States.


I am fully aware of the Inquirer, and I know that they are completely full of crap. Their articles are sensationalist trash, and anyone who cites them loses all credibility in my eyes.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Wow I'm really heart broken.  

Go along and use your precious Vista, and I'll do the same, even though Vista is absolutely nothing but MS hype at this point.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve Mehs said:


> Vista is absolutely nothing but MS hype at this point.


Yep, this OS I've been using daily for 3 months is nothing but hype. It's worse than XP in every way, and it's just junk. I don't know why I haven't dropped back to XP yet. I really should, since Vista is such crap.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Wow your emotional ties to Vista are stonger then I thought.


----------



## Jeremy W

Steve Mehs said:


> Wow your emotional ties to Vista are stonger then I thought.


I love how someone can use Vista for 20 minutes, determine that it's crap, and be lauded for such an insightful and eye-opening review. Meanwhile I've been using it exclusively for three straight months, and when I say that it's actually a good OS I'm too "emotionally involved" with it. If you'd get off your stupid Windows 2000 high horse and actually try Vista on some new hardware, maybe you'd understand why I say what I do.


----------



## Steve Mehs

Have you read anything I posted? I've been using Vista almost exclusively since the day before the Super Bowl on a Pentium 4HT 3.2GHz machine. I switch back to my XP drive every so often to get files that I don’t have on my flash drive. And I'm not preaching Windows 2000 like you’re preaching Vista. Windows 2000 was a great OS, but I don’t get all emotional over it like you are with Vista. I ran it on my 700Mhz machine until two years ago when I put XP Pro on it. Vista runs great on this computer, I have no issues hardwarewise, except for crappy drivers from Creative. I never said Vista was crap, I said it was overhyped. If I truly hated it I would be on my other hard drive. I don’t see how Vista is so great other then a prettier interface which I have disabled.


----------



## Chris Blount

Well, this thread seems to have taken a turn so lets bring it back to a little less than hostile territory. 

I was curious...What are you guys getting on your Windows Vista Experience Index? I was in Best Buy yesterday and noticed that most of the pre-built stuff is around 3.1. Even the laptops are around 3.0.

My home machine is built from the ground up. When I first installed Vista, my rating was 3.5. What was dragging me down was apparently my video card. I replaced my Radeon Sapphire X550/256 MB with a PNY Geforce 7600 GS w 512 MB. My rating jumped up to 4.0. 

Now all of my ratings are 4.5 and up except for the graphics rating which is 4.0. My gaming graphics is rated at 4.6 which is fine. 

What's amazing is that my machine is running a single core AMD 3500+ chip so I think I'm getting some pretty good numbers.

What are you all getting?


----------



## Jeremy W

My desktop (purchased in September 2005, not upgraded at all) gets a 2.0 rating. It's all because of my ATI Radeon x300 graphics card. It gets a 2.0 in Graphics, and a 3.0 in Gaming graphics. Amazingly, even with that low of a score, it can run Aero on dual monitors without a hitch. I'm probably right at the edge of not being able to run it, because on the first beta of Longhorn I actually couldn't.

My next lowest rating is my CPU, which gets a 4.3. It's a 3.2GHz P4 with HyperThreading. RAM is 4.5, and HD is 5.3.


----------



## Steve Mehs




----------



## JM Anthony

I'd be in the mid 4's, but I've got sucky graphics. It will be interesting to run on my HTPC as it's got plenty of horsepower all the way around.

John


----------



## Chris Blount

Man, I just installed a video card that took my graphic rating all the way up to 5.9!

If you are looking for a good next generation Directx 10 compatible card, check out this one. It's on sale right now at Circuit City for $119 after a $30 rebate. Great deal and a darn good card for the price. My flight sim now runs like a dream with high frame rates.

It's the GeForce 8600 GT.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/eVGA...78867/catOid/-13043/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do


----------



## Mark Holtz

Here's mine. Apparently, the weakest link is the CPU. Dunno why....


----------



## bidger

Does it have the Viiv technology, Mark?


----------



## JohnGfun

WOW is all I can say! I love Vista. I Installed it a couple of months ago. No problems yet. (lets hope it stays that way!) In my opinion this is the best operating to date that Microsoft has released.


----------

