# Voltage Through Coaxial Cable?



## HoytR

As I was about to attach the coaxial cable to my second replacement reciever I noticed a slight shock. Using my multimeter from the cable to the reciever it read 115 Volts. 

Couple days later I finally get to the store to buy one of those GFI testers. Disconnect the cable to check the voltage and am now getting 58 volts. 

I have the reciever and tv plugged into a surge protector, which is plugged into an outlet. With everything plugged in the outlet shows hot/neutral reversed, with nothing plugged in the outlet shows open ground which is how it should read. (old house) I checked other outlets on the same breaker and they read open ground as well. Anhow....

When I disconnect the coaxial cable from the reciever the outlet goes from hot/neutral reversed to open ground. Reconnect the cable & unplug the receiver's from the surge protector I still get the hot/neutral switched, but if I disconnect the HDMI cable from the TV then it goes to open ground. I plugged the receiver directly to the outlet and had the same results.( no surge protector) I know that the cable is grounded to the outside edge of my electrial panel on the outside of the house but don't recall seeing the dish being grounded. Sorry for such the lengthy post but I want to cover all the bases. 

What could be causing my problem?


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## Stewart Vernon

I worked in a two-way radio shop years ago... and was on a service call and encountered essentially what you are describing.

I was servicing a base-station radio... and was disconnecting the antenna to connect through my meter to measure power output from the radio... and I got a shock!

I measured the non-connected antenna like and found it had 60+ volts on it... It was driving me nuts, because with the antenna disconnected from everything... there was voltage seemingly from nowhere!

I then started asking if they had done anything recently... and the only recent thing anyone came up with was a new surge-protector outlet they had for their computer.

On a lark, I unplugged that... then plugged their computer back directly into the wall socket...

When I had unplugged the surge protector... the voltage disappeared from the antenna coaxial line.

I never really did find out what the problem was... but I told them not to use that surge protector until they could get an electrician to come in and see what was going on with their wiring.

I suspected that they had an improper ground (or perhaps neutral) somewhere in the system... something that would have been common to the antenna on the roof being grounded and to the wiring in the wall...

Sometimes surge protectors that assume proper electrical wiring (why would they assume otherwise?) end up revealing a fault in the electrical wiring that otherwise might go unexposed.

I really wish I had been able to go back there and find out what their problem was... as that (until your post) was the only time I had experienced the weirdness that was a surge protector actually causing a problem that seemed to be making one of the grounds hot!

I'm sure if I had known what the deal was, it would have made sense... I just never got to follow up with that customer.

Anyway, it sounds very much like you describe.


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## boba

Get an electrician out...


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## HoytR

I don't think the surge protector is part of the problem. I removed it and plugged the receiver directly to the outlet and it showed hot & neutral reversed, not hot ground reversed.


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## davejacobson

Im not sure if your tester can identify hot/neutral reverse without a ground connection.You need to identify the hot and neutral wire in your system and verify the proper connection. This will likely need to be done by an electrician.Since your coax is grounded when you hook up the cable to the receiver you then have an electrical ground so then your tester reads hot/neutral reverse. Your symptoms indicate a hot/neutral reverse with voltage on the ground of your coax.


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## gtal98

Do you have any other receivers or a 44 switch with power inserter? If so make sure all of them are plugged into properly wired outlets. Also, if you have a power inserter, make sure it is facing the right way - one side should say to receiver, the other to switch.

You definitely have an electrical issue somewhere, for there to be 115V on the coax there has to be something else in the system plugged into an outlet with hot/ground reversed, or else the ground wire outside is hooked to 115V instead of ground - but I'm not sure how you could do that.

Also, there should be a thin messenger wire attached to the dual cable going from the dish to the GB to ground it. It won't be a thick green wire.


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## HoytR

The 2 cables from the dish connect to what appears to be a grounding block. The messenger wire ties into the small block and then the ground wire from this block clamps onto the breaker box. 2 cables connect on the opposite side and travel to a Holland DPD2 diplexer.

I disconnected all 3 cables on the diplexer and removed the ground clamp from the electrical panel. Measuring from the clamp to the panel I get 58 volts. So this would rule out the coaxial cable running to the bedroom being damaged and seems to focus the problem with the grounding clamp. This whole setup is set up between the power coming into the house above and the electrical panel below. Could this be causing some sort of interference?


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## west99999

you have a SERIOUS problem and should not be fooling with it, get an electrician to come out and correct you electrical problem. I have seen a wildblue modem catch fire from hot/neutral reverse and if the customer wasnt there the house would have went up like a matchbox. I have also seen cable melted to the side of house and all the way to the dish on DirecTV systems that had this problem.


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## gtal98

Yeah, the more I hear the screwier it gets. And I think west9999 is right, you should get an electrician out there. A DNS tech was recently killed while working on a system that had 115V on the coax similar to yours. Why risk it. Don't mess with the stuff outside anymore.


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## HoytR

I think I've done as much as I can to trouble shoot this. Today I found out more info but as I'm not that familiar with electrical I don't know what it exactly means. 

I have two receivers- one in the bedroom and one in the living room. They are both on two seperate circuits. In the bedroom the outlet for the receiver is the first outlet on that circuit so I isolated it from the rest of the outlets in the line.

I disconnected all the cables from the GB, including the grounding line. I checked against the ground and the cable for both the living room reciever and bedroom reciever and they showed 0 volts while the receivers were unplugged. But when I plug the receivers in each of their cable to the ground shows 50 volts. Then I did a comparasion for the living room outlet and bedroom outlet with the receiver plugged in directly to the outlet and the ground and cables put back onto the GB.

-----------Living Room Outlet--------------------Bedroom Outlet
--------Plugged In-----Unplugged-----------Plugged In-----Unplugged

H-N-----120.5V -----120.5V-----------------120.5V---------120.5V
H-G-----120.6V--------1.8V-------------------0V-------------0V
N-G-------0V----------0V------------------120.5V------------0V

outlet---Normal-------Open ground----Hot/Neutral Reversed---Open Ground
tester

When I use an extension cord to plug the receivers into a grounded outlet the voltage on the cable goes away. The grounded outlets are grounded to the receptacle box. The receptacle boxes for the receivers are plastic or else I would just go ahead and ground them. 

Any advice besides call an electrician? :bang


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## Carl Spock

I haven't seen if you are reading AC or DC volts. I'll assume it's DC because I think 120 VAC at 60 Hz would burn up a coax cable.

I've seen much lower levels of DC voltage on cable TV hookups when I use a meter to read between the cable's shield and earth ground. It can cause buzzing in systems, and in the worst cases, rolling bars on the screen.

You have something much more serious wrong. The way it goes away when you use a grounded outlet, I'd suspect the problem is in your electrical wiring. As people have been saying, it's time for an electrician. For now, definitely use the extension cord. You are at risk of blowing up your receivers and in the worst case, starting a fire.


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## HoytR

I have the multimeter set on 200 VAC, and yesterday and today I have only been seeing 60 Volts on the cable.

I haven't seen any or heard any interference with the tv. I've had two receivers hard drives get messed up in the past month, I am assuming because of this issue. I remember the Dish Network tech who was out here last July to install the system saying how he got shocked when he was touching the coax in the bedroom. Wish I would have looked into this problem then.


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## Bailey6613

"HoytR" said:


> As I was about to attach the coaxial cable to my second replacement reciever I noticed a slight shock. Using my multimeter from the cable to the reciever it read 115 Volts.
> 
> Couple days later I finally get to the store to buy one of those GFI testers. Disconnect the cable to check the voltage and am now getting 58 volts.
> 
> I have the reciever and tv plugged into a surge protector, which is plugged into an outlet. With everything plugged in the outlet shows hot/neutral reversed, with nothing plugged in the outlet shows open ground which is how it should read. (old house) I checked other outlets on the same breaker and they read open ground as well. Anhow....
> 
> When I disconnect the coaxial cable from the reciever the outlet goes from hot/neutral reversed to open ground. Reconnect the cable & unplug the receiver's from the surge protector I still get the hot/neutral switched, but if I disconnect the HDMI cable from the TV then it goes to open ground. I plugged the receiver directly to the outlet and had the same results.( no surge protector) I know that the cable is grounded to the outside edge of my electrial panel on the outside of the house but don't recall seeing the dish being grounded. Sorry for such the lengthy post but I want to cover all the bases.
> 
> What could be causing my problem?


Remove the ground at the elec panel. Receiver can not be plugged in a outlet that is reversed. Make sure it is plugged in a three outlet plug..do not remove third prong from plug end on receiver. Make sure thevsecond tv is plugged in a good outlet.


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## Carl Spock

HoytR said:


> I have the multimeter set on 200 VAC, and yesterday and today I have only been seeing 60 Volts on the cable.


Back out of your house, slowly. Round up the family, pets and go! And don't let anybody smoke within 100 feet of your lot.

I'm joking, but seriously, if you aren't using the extension cord, unplug everything. This has the potential for being a dangerous situation.

_Holy Schnikes, I just made an electrical pun._


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## RasputinAXP

Potential. HAH! I see what you did there. <.< >.>


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## 356B

It could be a flipped neutral, plugging a cord in the wrong way (large blade into small slot), a polarity reversal on a particular outlet (black goes to brass, white to silver, bare to ground, if you have one......) or a non earth ground. Have it checked out, it's not normal....at least in my world.


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## gtal98

When you're measuring the voltage on the coax to ground, are you touching the center copper of the coax, or the outside of the connector? What is the voltage reading from center conductor to shielding on the coax? It should be DC. There should never be AC on the coax unless something is plugged into an outlet with hot/gnd reversed.

Regardless, since it goes away with the receiver plugged into extension cords - leave it setup that way and have an electrician check the now suspect outlets. Something is very wrong with at least one of them.


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## jsk

HoytR said:


> Any advice besides call an electrician? :bang


E-mail an electrician.

Seriously, we don't want to have one less DBSTalk member.


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## 356B

jsk said:


> E-mail an electrician.
> 
> Seriously, we don't want to have one less DBSTalk member.


Under most circumstances 110v is only deadly under wet conditions or possibly an existing medical/heart problem. When I get hit it just pisses me off........but 220v and above will kill most every time... if it gets a hold of you.......... Never the less non professional should NOT be messing with something they do not understand, I strongly suggest getting a licensed electrician to analyze your situation.


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## Oval

356B said:


> Under most circumstances 110v is only deadly under wet conditions or possibly an existing medical/heart problem. When I get hit it just pisses me off........but 220v and above will kill most every time... if it gets a hold of you.......... Never the less non professional should NOT be messing with something they do not understand, I strongly suggest getting a licensed electrician to analyze your situation.


The three main factors that affect the severity of an electrical shock are:

The amount of current flowing through the body.
The path the current takes through the body.
The amount of time the current flows through the body.

As little as 50mA can kill you. 110v entering one hand and exiting the other travelling across the chest (assuming 500ohms for each hand and 100ohms for the body) is 100mA.


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## 356B

Oval said:


> The three main factors that affect the severity of an electrical shock are:
> 
> The amount of current flowing through the body.
> The path the current takes through the body.
> The amount of time the current flows through the body.
> 
> As little as 50mA can kill you. 110v entering one hand and exiting the other travelling across the chest (assuming 500ohms for each hand and 100ohms for the body) is 100mA.


and how many time have you been shocked......?


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## James Long

356B said:


> and how many time have you been shocked......?


Enough times.


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## Oval

356B said:


> and how many time have you been shocked......?


I got careless once, I touched the yoke and hot on a recep.


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## 356B

James Long said:


> Enough times.


obviously you're alive and spark'n......
look, picking a argument is non productive, there are exceptions to every rule and every situation, that said in my 40 years in the business I've only once seen anyone injured by 110/120v.......a faulty Skillsaw switch while standing in water.......we managed to turn him off in time. I didn't realize I was getting so controversial.......


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## Oval

356B said:


> obviously you're alive and spark'n......
> look, picking a argument is non productive, there are exceptions to every rule and every situation, that said in my 40 years in the business I've only once seen anyone injured by 110/120v.......a faulty Skillsaw switch while standing in water.......we managed to turn him off in time. I didn't realize I was getting so controversial.......


I'm sorry, wasn't arguing, I was just saying there is more to it than voltage.


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## 356B

Oval said:


> I'm sorry, wasn't arguing, I was just saying there is more to it than voltage.


No apology needed I get it, I just deal and have dealt with the practical (ass in the seat) side of electricity for decades, it's weird and unpredictable for the novice and the professional at times, it should be approached with great caution.


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## RasputinAXP

"It ain't volts, it's amps..."


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## 356B

RasputinAXP said:


> "It ain't volts, it's amps..."


Very true, but I thought this was about house voltage being serviced from the street and that is presumedly controlled by the power company limiting voltage and amperage to acceptable ranges. On the other hand there are capacitors, devices and stuff that store and alter amperage and whatever or so I've heard.


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## Oval

HoytR said:


> I think I've done as much as I can to trouble shoot this. Today I found out more info but as I'm not that familiar with electrical I don't know what it exactly means.
> 
> I have two receivers- one in the bedroom and one in the living room. They are both on two seperate circuits. In the bedroom the outlet for the receiver is the first outlet on that circuit so I isolated it from the rest of the outlets in the line.
> 
> I disconnected all the cables from the GB, including the grounding line. I checked against the ground and the cable for both the living room reciever and bedroom reciever and they showed 0 volts while the receivers were unplugged. But when I plug the receivers in each of their cable to the ground shows 50 volts. Then I did a comparasion for the living room outlet and bedroom outlet with the receiver plugged in directly to the outlet and the ground and cables put back onto the GB.
> 
> -----------Living Room Outlet--------------------Bedroom Outlet
> --------Plugged In-----Unplugged-----------Plugged In-----Unplugged
> 
> H-N-----120.5V -----120.5V-----------------120.5V---------120.5V
> H-G-----120.6V--------1.8V-------------------0V-------------0V
> N-G-------0V----------0V------------------120.5V------------0V
> 
> outlet---Normal-------Open ground----Hot/Neutral Reversed---Open Ground
> tester
> 
> When I use an extension cord to plug the receivers into a grounded outlet the voltage on the cable goes away. The grounded outlets are grounded to the receptacle box. The receptacle boxes for the receivers are plastic or else I would just go ahead and ground them.
> 
> Any advice besides call an electrician? :bang


It sounds to me like the hot/neutral are reversed in the bedroom BUT it also sounds to me like you are using standard three prong grounded receptacles that are not grounded :nono:

Get yourself an induction tester, also known as a non contact or no touch tester, $10-15 at The Home Depot. Insert the tip of the tester into the one of the slots of the receptacle. If the recep is wired correctly the narrow slot will be hot. If it's not, turn the breaker off and switch the wires at the recep.

As far as your receptacles not being grounded...If they are three prong receptacles they NEED to either be a)grounded OR b)replaced with a GFCI receptacle in accordance with NEC 406.3(D)(3)


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## smithduluth

RasputinAXP said:


> "It ain't volts, it's amps..."


Correct! Try laying your sweaty arm across the 12 volt terminals of your car battery the next time you're working under the hood and tell me what you feel.


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## dsw2112

Oval said:


> It sounds to me like the hot/neutral are reversed in the bedroom BUT it also sounds to me like you are using standard three prong grounded receptacles that are not grounded :nono:


Yep, I agree. Measuring Hot-Neutral or Hot-Ground should always show voltage; Neutral-Ground should NOT show voltage and is an indication that your wiring is reversed.

OP: I wouldn't worry so much what is happening with the receivers plugged in, it's time to focus on the home wiring.


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## HoytR

The hot and neutral on this circuit is backwards, must be switched at the breaker. I put in a GFI outlet in and just switched the wires feeding it and the rest of the circuit. 

It looks like there is supposed to be 12-18 volts on the coax to go back to the LNB. I read on another forum that if the system is grounded correctly stray current will ground out through the coax and through the grounding block. 

Next time I need to start at the beginning, basic things and work my way through the problem. Not start at the end and work my way back.


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## dsw2112

HoytR said:


> The hot and neutral on this circuit is backwards, must be switched at the breaker. I put in a GFI outlet in and just switched the wires feeding it and the rest of the circuit.
> 
> It looks like there is supposed to be 12-18 volts on the coax to go back to the LNB. I read on another forum that if the system is grounded correctly stray current will ground out through the coax and through the grounding block.
> 
> Next time I need to start at the beginning, basic things and work my way through the problem. Not start at the end and work my way back.


Glad you got it resolved, but I'd recommend you find the source of the backwards wiring. It may/may not be the breaker, and I'd be careful about just swapping there without checking. Remember there are likely multiple outlets (and possibly other items) on the circuit depending on how it was wired. That outlet might follow from another outlet, and that might be the point of reversal. Reversing at the breaker panel may fix the problem outlet, but cause you to reverse polarity on others. :nono2: It's also a wise idea to check each outlet in the home for this problem, since you've already encountered one issue.


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## 356B

It's really a common occurrence......reversing the neutral and the hot. To check the polarity (which is what were discussing here) get a simple circuit tester, the plugin type, it can identify the mis-wired receptacle if that's the issue. Any hardware/home store will have one.


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## Grampa67

HoytR said:


> The hot and neutral on this circuit is backwards, must be switched at the breaker. I put in a GFI outlet in and just switched the wires feeding it and the rest of the circuit.
> 
> It looks like there is supposed to be 12-18 volts on the coax to go back to the LNB. I read on another forum that if the system is grounded correctly stray current will ground out through the coax and through the grounding block.
> 
> Next time I need to start at the beginning, basic things and work my way through the problem. Not start at the end and work my way back.


Chances are that sometime in the past the outlet was replaced and whoever replaced it did not know the white went to silver and the black went to gold. Ive seen this many times.


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## harsh

HoytR said:


> Measuring from the clamp to the panel I get 58 volts.


Something else to check: are you measuring AC or DC voltage?


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## matt

harsh said:


> Something else to check: are you measuring AC or DC voltage?





HoytR said:


> I have the multimeter set on 200 VAC, and yesterday and today I have only been seeing 60 Volts on the cable.


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## joegr

356B said:


> It's really a common occurrence......reversing the neutral and the hot. To check the polarity (which is what were discussing here) get a simple circuit tester, the plugin type, it can identify the mis-wired receptacle if that's the issue. Any hardware/home store will have one.


Those only work on correctly grounded outlets, and the OP does not have the ground connected.


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## 356B

joegr said:


> Those only work on correctly grounded outlets, and the OP does not have the ground connected.


They will identify a non grounded outlet, if what you say is true, which will tell him more than anyone here knows for sure. I'm always amazed at all the long distance diagnosis that goes on with this stuff, before anyone can make a accurate diagnosis a test must administered......obviously no one here with the exception of the OP can do that.


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## ehren

I have voltage thru my coax thru my sw-64 switch with power inserter. I assume this is different.


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## HoytR

I am pretty sure that the reciever is grounding itself through the coaxial cable. What is weird is that when the receiver is unplugged the outlet shows open ground, when it is plugged in the outlet shows the outlet is normal- which means that it senses the ground on the coax?

I turned all the breakers off except for the bedroom and there is still 50 volts from receiver to coax. I ran an extension cord from the reciever to the neighbors ungrounded outlet, 50 volts. When I plug the receiver into a grounded outlet there is no voltage, either my house or neighbors'.

I'm not so concerned that the receiver is grounding out through the coax, I'm concerned with the 50-120 volts going through it. Maybe it's time to call Dish?


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## Stewart Vernon

Or better... call an electrician.


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## harsh

ehren said:


> I have voltage thru my coax thru my sw-64 switch with power inserter. I assume this is different.


The power inserter is there to create a DC voltage. The OP seems to be experiencing an AC voltage.

I'd try a different meter or perhaps a fresh set of batteries.


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## SayWhat?

Grampa67 said:


> Chances are that sometime in the past the outlet was replaced and whoever replaced it did not know the white went to silver and the black went to gold. Ive seen this many times.


Dangit, no wonder outlets are so expensive if they're puttin' silver and gold in 'em now!!!

It's brass ---- black to brass.


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## Grampa67

SayWhat? said:


> Dangit, no wonder outlets are so expensive if they're puttin' silver and gold in 'em now!!!
> 
> It's brass ---- black to brass.


I only buy outlets made of gold and silver...


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## jerry downing

Most electronic equipment uses capacitors to filter noise. These are connected from ground to hot, ground to neutral, and neutral to hot. If the ground is missing, there will appear about 50-60 volts on the frame of the device. This is more than enough to give electric shocks and to damage equipment. I have had to repair equipment used by customers who have tried to save money by having a friend of a friend do electrical work rather than a licensed electrician. What is usually damaged is I/O boards where a grounded device is interfaced to an ungrounded device.


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## harsh

RasputinAXP said:


> "It ain't volts, it's amps..."


As amperage is directly dependent on voltage, volts count.

Current is the one aspect of any electrical circuit that you don't have direct control over.


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## dsw2112

harsh said:


> ...Current is the one aspect of *any* electrical circuit that you don't have direct control over.




There are several amperage limiting devices that can be placed on an electrical circuit. In addition, anything using a battery is inherantly limited in the total amps that can be output.


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## joegr

356B said:


> They will identify a non grounded outlet, if what you say is true, which will tell him more than anyone here knows for sure. I'm always amazed at all the long distance diagnosis that goes on with this stuff, before anyone can make a accurate diagnosis a test must administered......obviously no one here with the exception of the OP can do that.


It was already established earlier in this thread that the OP's outlets were ungrounded. (except for when the receiver is plugged in since it's coax is grounded)


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## harsh

dsw2112 said:


> There are several amperage limiting devices that can be placed on an electrical circuit.


Current limiting devices typically work by controlling the impedance (driving the voltage into a pile that is connected in parallel).


> In addition, anything using a battery is inherantly limited in the total amps that can be output.


You may be surprised how much current a battery can push. I've seen 9V NiCad batteries that were rated to 30 amps.


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## dsw2112

harsh said:


> Current limiting devices typically work by controlling the impedance (driving the voltage into a pile that is connected in parallel).You may be surprised how much current a battery can push. I've seen 9V NiCad batteries that were rated to 30 amps.


Or not so surprised as you don't know what I do for a living  In any case your quote I responded to earlier has nothing to do with what you've written here.

There are a number of ways to "control" current that have nothing to do with what you've mentioned; how they work also has nothing to do with your below quote since they are considered limiting mechanisms:



harsh said:


> ...Current is the one aspect of *any* electrical circuit that you don't have direct control over.


In addition there are certainly batteries that have a high amperage rating, but they are ultimately limited in the total amount of current they can output. In any case, this can be a limiting factor that one would have "direct control over."


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## 356B

joegr said:


> It was already established earlier in this thread that the OP's outlets were ungrounded. (except for when the receiver is plugged in since it's coax is grounded)


OH......then run a ground wire to a cold water pipe......that'll ground it, then you can test it.......


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## HoytR

356B said:


> OH......then run a ground wire to a cold water pipe......that'll ground it, then you can test it.......


Is that something safe to do? I was thinking of running a grounding wire by itself to the grounded outlet. The outlets grounded in my house are only grounded to the receptacle box they are in.


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## 356B

HoytR said:


> Is that something safe to do? I was thinking of running a grounding wire by itself to the grounded outlet. The outlets grounded in my house are only grounded to the receptacle box they are in.


 Is it safe? 
In the early days of residential grounding it was a common practice, grounding is relatively new. I'm old enough to remember the first "ground fault interrupters" (GFI). 
The rub is as long as the ground goes to a metal *cold water pipe,* in recent years municipal water companies have gone to PVC entry piping (street to the house) obviously plastic pipe is not a conductor. Modern ground rods, the kind I use are normally 1/2" to 5/8" in diameter by 96" long, they are driven vertically or in some cases (bedrock etc.) a trench 24" deep horizontally may be allowed. Cable and telephone companies have grounded to water pipes for decades when no other ground was available.
Back to your question though, "is it safe?" I have done it many times with no problems ever, so for me it is, that said I suspect a critic will find fault with this suggestion; Nevertheless it works......


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## SayWhat?

Our entire system county-wide is PVC. There isn't a foot of metal pipe anywhere.


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## Stewart Vernon

I'm still trying to figure out why the OP doesn't want to call an electrician... It seems pretty clear that something is funky with the house wiring, and the OP doesn't seem to be qualified to diagnose/fix that himself (no offense, as I don't know that I am qualified either)... so I'm not understanding why he is ignoring that advice.


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## davejacobson

Dont you know the net solves all problems. A qualified technician costs $$$. Advise has been given a solution has been offered now its up to him to get a qualified person to do the job if he is not capable of doing it.


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## HoytR

This is some info I have found:

Your satellite receiver is connected to a 120 volt circuit. The hot side of the circuit is protected by a breaker, but the ground, or neutral lead has no such limiting device.

In the receiver's power supply, the power transformer will have its center tap attached to neutral. The receivers cabinet will be connected to ground. They are then tied together at the service panel.

Then the coaxial cable is attached to the receiver.

If the ground used for the coaxial cable is a better ground with lower potential than the one used for electrical service, then the entire house's current will, at least partially, flow back through the receiver's electrical service ground lead. From there, current will flow to the receiver cabinet, through the coaxial cable's shield (the ground part of the wire), to the grounding block and then to ground.


My reluctance in just calling an electrician out is that he will probably tell me what I already know, that the outlet needs to be grounded. I have talked to a friend of mine who is an electrician and he has said the same thing.


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## JWKessler

I haven't read through this entire thread, but apparently the problem isn't resolved, so I'll jump in.

Each branch circuit in your home wiring should contain three wires.

One wire is the hot which carries approximately 120 VAC at up to a common maximum of 15 to 20 amps. The maximum current depends on the wire size used and the rated capacity of the breaker. This wire will typically have black insulation on it. 

The second wire is called the neutral. This wire is connected directly to the ground bus inside your breaker box and is intended to provide the necessary return current path from the load connected to the hot line. That is, electrons are supposed to flow from service panel, through the hot line, through the load, and back to the service panel through the neutral line. The neutral will carry the same current that the hot carries. Under no load conditions the neutral should measure 0 volts in reference to any grounded conductor in the home and 120 volts in reference to the hot. The neutral line is not over current protected. That is only needed at the original point for the hot line.

The third wire is the safety ground. It will either not be insulated at all or will have green or green/yellow insulation on it. You will typically find an insulated ground wire inside equipment power cords but not in your home's wiring. The ground also connects directly to the ground bus inside the circuit breaker panel and should have the same wire gauge as the hot and neutral. In normal operation the ground should carry 0 amps of current. The ground is not normally part of the electrical circuit.

Any time current flows in the ground wire, you have a fault condition. An example of this occurring might be if you drop a grounded electrical appliance into your bathroom sink. the water will become electrically hot - a serious shock hazard. Current will flow from the hot circuit inside the device, through the water to the ground line. Current flows in the ground - which it should never do.

In bathrooms, kitchens or other places where water may come into contact with electrical circuits we require the use of Ground Fault protection in the form of special breakers in the breaker panel or outlets with Ground Fault protection built into them. A GFI will detect even a tiny current flowing in the ground circuit and immediately disconnect the hot circuit.

It is quite common for electrical outlets to be mis-wired so the hot and neutral lines are swapped. Occasionally neutral and ground wire get swapped. In other cases the ground may be missing. All of these problems can have a number of undesirable side effects, but may produce no obvious effect on the operation of devices connected to the defective outlet or it may be difficult to recognize that the effect is caused by a wiring problem.

A friend of mine once spent months troubleshooting problems in a new PC that ended up being caused by a swapped hot and neutral line in an outlet in his apartment.

The best way to detect these problems is to use an inexpensive outlet tester and connect to to every outlet in your home. If it finds a problem, you need to find out why and fix it. If you are not comfortable working on the electrical systems in your home, you need to call in a professional to get it fixed.

If you understand what I have written here, and are familiar with common hand tools, you may be able to repair the problem yourself. Just be aware that problems can originate from a number of sources and may be difficult to track down. For instance, in many homes wiring has been run through junction boxes that may be hidden (which is against the electrical code) so finding that junction box and correcting the error may be very difficult.

Someone mentioned power transformers inside our satellite receivers. Very few modern electronic devices contain traditional power transformers. That is because transformers tend to be large, heavy, expensive and somewhat inefficient components. Modern electronic devices typically use switching power supplies to convert the 120 VAC line power to the voltages needed to run the equipment.

One characteristic of a switching supply is that it contains capacitors that connect the hot and neutral lines to the ground line. High frequency noise is often passed through these caps to the ground circuit resulting in some small current flowing in the ground. Connecting a switching supply to a GFI protected outlet may result in nuisance tripping of the GFI. The only solution in this case is to connect the device to a non-GFI protected circuit.


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## davejacobson

HoytR said:


> My reluctance in just calling an electrician out is that he will probably tell me what I already know, that the outlet needs to be grounded. I have talked to a friend of mine who is an electrician and he has said the same thing.


You know what the problem is and your reluctant to fix it or hire someone to


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## HoytR

davejacobson said:


> You know what the problem is and your reluctant to fix it or hire someone to


:righton: You must have missed this post:

I was thinking of running a grounding wire by itself to the grounded outlet. The outlets grounded in my house are only grounded to the receptacle box they are in.


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## Jim5506

Sounds like it's time for a "Holmes Inspection".


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## harsh

An outlet that is attached to a grounded metallic receptacle box is indeed grounded (although typically not to current code). You should find continuity between the ground jacks within the outlet and the frame that locates the outlet in the box. Screwing the outlet into the box completes the connection to ground.

If the outlet box isn't grounded (or is non-metallic), all bets are off.


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## 356B

HoytR said:


> :righton: You must have missed this post:
> 
> I was thinking of running a grounding wire by itself to the grounded outlet. The outlets grounded in my house are only grounded to the receptacle box they are in.


Now I'm getting confused.......you're thinking of running a ground to a already grounded outlet....? either this house is grounded or it isn't.

Attaching a ground wire to a metal box only works if the box is daisy chained some way to metal in the ground......cold water pipe or copper ground rod. Merely attaching a ground wire to a box is that is not grounded (to the earth) is a feel good, get me past the inspector gimmick that Hacks use.


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## Stewart Vernon

We seem to be going in circles here... the OP seems to be in agreement now that there is a wiring problem, so the next steps should either be:

1. Fix the problem if he is qualified.

OR

2. Call a qualified person to fix the problem.

I'm not sure what is left to talk about until a qualified person takes a look at the wiring in his home, which at least certainly has problems at some outlets.


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## 356B

Stewart Vernon said:


> We seem to be going in circles here... the OP seems to be in agreement now that there is a wiring problem, so the next steps should either be:
> 
> 1. Fix the problem if he is qualified.
> 
> OR
> 
> 2. Call a qualified person to fix the problem.
> 
> I'm not sure what is left to talk about until a qualified person takes a look at the wiring in his home, which at least certainly has problems at some outlets.


I concur, it's become an exercise.


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## kevinm34232

This discussion is very interesting, but I'm still a little confused. I'm a cable technician and from time to time I run across issues with intermittent modem problems and it turns out there is 50-60 volts AC on the cable measured at the ground block. Last time I saw this I unplugged everything off the circuit that cable was coming from, but it turned out that if any device connected to cable was plugged into either of those 2 outlets, you would get the voltage backfed on the cable. It wasn't anyone of the devices causing the problem, so I assume something was wrong in the wiring. One outlet looked like it was added at some point. 
What is cuasing the voltage on the cable, can't seem to find a real solution except call an electrician. Is it the hot/neutral reversed or can it be more than that?


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## matt

Had a call once where the modem would randomly disconnect like that. Cox came out before I did and told the customer that the electric service wasn't grounded and voltage was feeding back and that proper grounding (which they wouldn't do) would fix it. I was called because then tenant was afraid of being shocked without a ground so I came around and drove in a ground rod and connected it at the meter pan. That much needed fix made the tenant happy (even though it was knob and tube wiring and there was no ground in sight except at the meter, main, and sub panel) and that resolved the cable modem issue.


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## 356B

50 to 60 volts is half of 110/120.......your getting a half voltage, check the polarity, could be a reversed wire. I would start with the add on plug, that could be the culprit. Testers are cheap for this type of issue.


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## DoyleS

I guess the question I have is whether your home is an older home and was originally wired without a safety ground wire going to each outlet. If that is the case, and you or someone has replaced what should be 2 wire outlets with 3 wire grounded outlets but not brought a ground wire from the panel to that location then you have a serious problem. 
1. An electrical fire with this illegal situation would likely mean your home owners insurance would not cover the damage. 
2. You cannot connect a ground from a water pipe to an outlet ground. Not legal! the ground must come from the panel where it is bonded to the Neutral line as Kessler described. 
3. If this is an older house and you are trying to get one grounded outlet going, then you should be looking at running a new 3 wire (hot, neutral, ground) cable from the power panel to your outlet and disabling the old 2 wire run to that outlet. 
4. If all of this was the case when you purchased or rented the house, you might also call the power company and see if they have someone that can come out and check whether you have a safe situation or not. 
Again, you really don't seem to be well versed in this and appear to not want to spend the money on an electrician who is qualified to fix the problem. True, he may tell you some of what you already know but he can also tell you how he would fix it and what it would cost. You then have the option of getting a couple bids and choosing the one you are comfortable with. Do this wrong and you or one of your loved ones could pay the price.


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## bnborg

HoytR said:


> . . .
> The grounded outlets are grounded to the receptacle box. The receptacle boxes for the receivers are plastic or else I would just go ahead and ground them.
> 
> Any advice besides call an electrician? :bang





HoytR said:


> :righton: You must have missed this post:
> 
> I was thinking of running a grounding wire by itself to the grounded outlet. The outlets grounded in my house are only grounded to the receptacle box they are in.


Did you install the plastic receptacle boxes yourself? How are the receptacle boxes that are metal grounded?

Outlets in plastic boxes *should* be grounded with an independent bare or green ground wire, either in a three wire cable or conduit. The outlet is grounded using the ground terminal near one end of the outlet.

If there is no ground wire, running one to a confirmed ground in a grounded outlet box should be ok, and is preferable to using a cold water pipe.

You should also check the grounding of the dish itself. One of my previous Dish installers grounded the grounding block to one of the air conditioning coolant pipes.


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## DoyleS

Definitely do not want to ground to a nearby water pipe. If you checked the voltage between that water pipe and the ground at the service panel, I think you might be a little surprised even shocked.


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## flatus

FWIW, My house, with early 1960's wiring had the ground wire coiled around the incoming electrical cable. the cable was clamped to the metal outlet box where the ground wire was coiled around it. Until i looked very closely, i did not see that ground wire. The ground wire was several gauges smaller than the hot an neutral wires.

I also had a situation where the neutral wire was laying up against the side of the metal outlet box. It has been like that long enough that the insulation had 'squished away' and would trip the breaker whenever something was used on that outlet. 

All in all, though, the wiring in this house was done very professionally and neatly. Just not up to today's codes. 

One more thing, I don't know if this is a BS story or not, but I was told about a guy who rewired his whole house with white= hot and black = neutral. Apparently his dad was a coal mine electrician and they use white = hot to make it easier to see. Is there any truth to that, or an old wive's tale?


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## DoyleS

It does not sound like the guy had his wiring done with a permit and inspected as they would quickly call that in most any city or county. It is allowed to use a white wire as a hot wire but it must be tagged where ever it enters a box. Red tape or Black tape or blue tape typically is used to tag a conductor at its end. By the same token a neutral wire would be tagged with white tape. The mine thing sounds a bit suspicious. I know that inherently safe mine cables are tagged with Blue to indicate they are safe. Does not mean that in a mine that they didn't develop their own practices but to move that into residential wiring is asking for trouble.


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## GoofyNut

I know this is an old post but the problem described above, complete with major sparks, is still happening. There is light at the end of the tunnel though because, after three previous satellite technicians tried, one finally paid off and solved the issue! Here goes...

Apparently when satellite companies, like DISH and DIRECTV, send a technician out to your house, he's usually a private contractor. Ergo, not directly employed by the satellite company. After I described what was happening to the most recent tech, he knew exactly what to do and here's how it was explained to me: the coax connectors that, let's say, DISH Network uses to do installations, are supposed to have a specific rating because the Hopper receiver does put out a bit of voltage when it communicates with the dish. If a connector is used that is not rated for the system and when a second receiver is added, when connected the coax to the satellite input, the coax connector, you will get sparks. Also, the coax doesn't have to be connected to anything, it just has to touch metal and then: POOF! :bang For my system, every time I tried to plug in the second receiver to the electrical outlet while at the same time that the other receiver was also plugged in....POOF! :bangI'd blow a fuse. With only the added receiver plugged in the wall, and not connected to the coax, it would spark when touching any metal...no blown fuse though. Now, if both receivers were plugged in on different circuits, they worked fine. But, they wouldn't work on the same circuit. This type of problem usually happens in older homes that haven't upgraded the electrical system to be of the newest panel type. I still use glass fuses believe it or not!!
So, to cut a longer story shorter, for those that are still have type of problem, like me, where the electrician can't find the problem and your satellite tech doesn't know what's going on, I can say with 100% certainty, especially and specifically for DISH customers, that the contracted satellite technician probably is using standard F-connectors for the wiring of your system. If you ask for a DISH technician, not someone from a random satellite company, but a regular DISH technician, and tell him what the problem is, he'll, more than likely, know exactly what to do to fix it. if he doesn't .....well, what can you say about his dedication to his profession? Anyways, what should be done is a complete re-wire of your system using the rated type of F-connectors. I guarantee this will solve your problem!
It worked for me...I went through 3 contracted technicians, two of which actually did know what they were doing, but yet they still were using the less expensive, hardware store, type of connectors. I never heard of connectors being rated!!!!! But, I guess they are because my problem was instantly solved by using them!! In this case, the fourth time was the charm!!!!! :up: :smoking:


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## west99999

This is total bs that the tech fed you. The connectors cannot make 120 volts show up regardless what type you use. The only thing that I can think he may have done if he fixed your problem is ungrounded your system.


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## DoyleS

I have to agree. Sounds more like a first posting troll. 
Absolutely no concept of electrical behavior. 
The OP clearly had problems with his electrical wiring.
Might even have been an open neutral line allowing cross feed from one side of his wiring through an appliance to the other side. In the end I don't think we ever heard a clear resolution of the issue. 
But non sparking super rated F connectors. 
Those are only used in left handed smoke generators and require autonomous connection to ensure phase and frequency stability.


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## GoofyNut

You know, I think it's pretty rude for you guys to say what you've said. You weren't there! I followed this guy around and watched everything that he did, so don't tell me that he's feeding me b.s.. The voltage that was present did not come from the house electrical system. The electricity causing the sparks and such were coming from the DISH satellite system itself. I don't know all the technical jargon and whatnot, but I do know what I saw and I tried my best to explain what the tech said, but I didn't want to a short novel, so I intentionally kept it somewhat short. All he did, during his brief stay, was change the connectors on the ends of the coax. Nobody said anything about "super rated F connectors". Incidentally, do you know for a fact that all F connectors are not created equal? I know for a fact that they are not. Just like all coaxial cable isn't created equal. If I'm not mistaken, coax cables are measured by impedance and range anywhere from, I believe 48-ohms up to 75-ohms, and are used for a wide variety of things. Coaxial cable design choices affect physical size, frequency performance, attenuation, power handling capabilities, flexibility, strength, and cost. The inner conductor might be solid or stranded; stranded is more flexible (of course). To get better high-frequency performance, the inner conductor may be silver-plated. Copper-plated steel wire is often used as an inner conductor for cable used in the satellite TV industry.
The point being that there are many types of common coaxial cables and then there are specialty cables. Why would anyone purchase a top of the line coaxial cable only to put generic connectors on the ends? Didn't you ever wonder why DISH advises against long coax cable runs of 200 ft. or more? Did someone say signal loss? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if a highly rated cable is used for its ability to produce strong signal with very little loss of signal, if any, that putting a generic connector on the ends of it would defeat the purpose of a higher rated cable? You might as well get your cables from the dollar store!! You do know that they no longer use RG-59, right? I wonder why???? HMMMM, maybe should think about it.
So, to sum it up, what you've said is offensive to me and I resent the fact that you, basically, are calling me stupid and gullible for believing what I saw to be true and actually proved itself to be true. Just because you can't sit back and figure out a solution to something that you've only tried to figure out on paper, doesn't make it unsolvable.. I bet if you were having the problem, if a tech said he was going to replace the connectors on your system, you would be Ok with it simply because you'd have a non-working satellite system, at that point. And then, OMG, what he did worked!! Would you question the solution then?
I'm telling you, now, that I've had a total of 4 technicians come out in the last two weeks. Three of them were sub-contractors who didn't work for DISH. The third technician replaced everything in my system. Every wire, cable, wall plate, and even the DISH mounted on the side of the house, was replaced. It was all new. After all that, I still had the problem. Incidentally, the problem started because some other technician a few years ago, installed the outside cabling outside the house using metal staples. A couple of weeks ago it rained pretty good and I came home to a blown fuse and a fried DISH receiver. Apparently, the staple had sliced through the cable and got wet and shorted the whole system. And, yes, there is voltage sent through the coax up to the DISH and then back. It's called, communication between the satellite dish and the receiver.
Anyways, I even had an electrician come out before the last technician came and he checked the entire house and found no issues at all. This problem was isolated to the DISH satellite system. To tell you the truth, I really don't care how it worked or what type of connector he used to get it to work. I was just trying to share what I thought would be helpful to others with the same type of problem. Because, if you do have this problem, you really don't care how they fix it, as long as they fix it!!! Usually by the time someone posts something about their problem, they've tried everything under the sun, yet they still have the problem. So, if someone is at their wits end and sees my post and decides to give it a try, why shouldn't they? It's such a simple solution that no one would believe it could work. But, what if it does???????? (IT REALLY DOES WORK!)


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## DoyleS

Ok, I understand your situation. I apologize for the sarcastic nature of my post. In a case like yours where the original installation was done wrong and as a result you had a shorted cable, I would also agree to replace all of the old wiring and connectors in the system, and tie the cable down with proper insulated cable holders. That was not the situation with the original poster from 2011.

The bells went off when you started talking about rated connectors and "try this, it really works, 100% guarantee." You had one post to your name and no real history on the forum to judge your posts. 
Cable and satellite installers all use compression connectors. They are more rugged, there are water tight versions and they are available at your local Home Depot and Lowes not just to installers. They require a special tool to install them. Older twist on and crimp on connectors are still available and in common use. A good installer will always spend the extra time to change out questionable parts to avoid a return call.

My background is that I am an Electrical Engineer in the microwave field. Very familiar with cables, connectors and their electrical properties.


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## west99999

GoofyNut said:


> why shouldn't they?


I wasn't trying to be rude either but they shouldn't try changing connectors for this problem because connectors cannot cause this problem. Satellite receivers put out 13 and 18 volts they cannot put out 120 volts on the coax unless there is an electrical problem and it feeds back through the electrical system.


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## GoofyNut

Ok, here's what you guys are failing to understand. The only reason they sent out tech #4 was per my request because I had gotten the system to work myself by making sure each receiver was plugged into a different electrical circuit than the other. I don't know why it mattered, but apparently it did. Anyways, it was inconvenient for me to have the receivers situated this way, so I had them come out to, possibly, switch out the bedroom receiver because it was the only remaining thing left over from the previous system. Everything else had been replaced with new things (i.e. wiring, the actual dish, LNB, and the duo-node switcher, etc.).
So, I told the guy what was going on and he immediately said he knew what to do. Mind you, I had already had an electrician come out and he checked the entire electrical system of the house and found no problems, except the fact that the wiring itself was old. Before he came, I knew there was, at least, one outlet that had hot and neutral reversed. I fixed that issue and put in a GFCI outlet for good measure. So, the electrical system checked out perfectly.
Anyways, the tech started changing the coax connectors outside the house that were connected to both the DISH and the Duo-Node thingy (I don't know exactly what it is or what it does). Anyways, he changed it. Then, he came in the house and changed the connectors on the cables coming out of the wall. After everything was changed, the moment of truth came and he said he was going to plug in the receiver. Since the receiver in the other room was still plugged in, I went in to panic mode since I didn't know if I had any fuses left. Once I found the fuses, I relaxed and told him to plug it in. When he did, nothing happened. Nothing out of the ordinary. The system powered up and he began to set everything up for the new receiver. He then told me that, while I went looking for fuses, he had put a 3-pronged adapter on the receiver plug before plugging it in to the surge protector. I can't remember why he said he did this, but at that point, I really did not care because my system was up and running again.
To tell you the truth, I really didn't care about the why's nor the how"s of him getting it up and running. It didn't matter what method he used as long as he was able to get it to work for me. I believed him when he said that changing the things he changed made a difference. In fact, when he told me what he was doing, I asked him: "what difference does it make about which type of connector is used?" He basically told me that the sub-contractors sometimes used by DISH use what is, basically, F-connectors that can be purchased at Radio Shack. They're just basic connectors with no protection against signal loss, etc.. Radio Shack only sells two types of F connectors for satellite/cable TV, I think it is two. But, anyways, they don't sell the higher end connectors. The actual DISH technicians use a different type of connector than do the sub-contracted technicians.
So, if he says changing the connectors would solve the problem, then so be it. By the way, I've practically lived at Home Depot for the past 10-15 years or so, and have never seen the type of F-connectors that this guy used on my system. Home Depot doesn't carry the better quality connectors because the average consumer will not buy them and opt for the cheaper version. Home Depot only stocks the items that people are more likely to buy. The higher end products, although they are available from them, have to be special ordered. I believe this to be true of most retail home improvement stores. But, if you can find a retail satellite TV store, you might be able to find all different types of connectors and someone there could you what the differences are in them and how they are typically used.
Now, I don't have an extensive background in electrical engineering, or a degree in any of the sciences. I have an English degree from U.C. Berkeley. But, I have practical, hands on experience/knowledge in a few areas of home improvement, not by choice mind you, but out of necessity. My motto was: "why pay someone to do something when you can pick up a book and learn how to do it yourself?" This has worked out fine for me for the last 22-years. I don't proclaim to be an expert at anything. But, what I do know is that, even though something can't be explained, doesn't make it wrong. The problem itself couldn't be explained therefore, if we don't understand the problem, how is it possible to try to understand the solution?
Remember, I said that I had tried everything else up to this point and nothing worked. So, I was at the end of my rope and figured that I had nothing to lose. I originally wanted them to swap the second receiver that I had for a new one since, as I said before, it was the last remnant of the old system. So, when the tech kept telling me that this particular receiver checked out fine, I wasn't a believer and was convinced that it had to be the problem. After telling the tech this, he seemed to come to an understanding about what the problem was. And, as I said above, he started changed connectors and swapping satellite components as previously stated.
So, you know, for whatever reasons, be it the connectors or the fact that my prayers were answered, my system is working again! I don't need to understand it or know why what the tech did worked. All I know that it now works! From reading the posts of different people on various websites about this type of problem, it sounded like these people were describing the exact problem I was having. So, I figured if the problems sound that much alike, then maybe the solution to my problem would be their solution as well. After all, who really cares about why it works, as long as it works! If I required that type of understanding about such matters then maybe I should've been a technician? No, I don't think so! I just want my stuff to work and now that it is, I can move on to the next thing. Because, as you well know, these types of old houses have their own set of problems and issues which are never in short supply! :biggthump


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## west99999

The 3-2 adapter basically removed the ground from the receivers. Ill bet he unhooked the ground outside also. Glad its working for you now.


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## James Long

Without picking apart thousands of words in several posts - I am glad that it is working for you.

You have a unique situation. There is something wrong in your situation that is causing the issue.

I have had more than one receiver connected to the same outlet without a problem. As long as one is not overloading the circuit or wiring it should not matter if the receivers are on the same circuit or different circuits.

There are standards for the coax wiring. Using unapproved parts can lead to problems but this is not a "Monster Cable" situation where one needs $1,000 cables to meet an artificial standard. The correct type of cable can be purchased in any decent hardware store. So can appropriate connectors. The bigger issue is the splitters, nodes, hubs and barrel connectors that people put in their system. They all have to be within the design standard for the system. There are more ways to miswire a system than to get it right.

Wired correctly with no defective parts you will never see 110v on a coax. If you are seeing 110v output on a coax at the receiver or power inserter that device is defective. (Not all devices are defective, just the one putting 110v on a coax.)

In any case ... I am glad that it is working.


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## DoyleS

Sounds like your system is up and running and that is good. From your description of home wiring and glass fuses you have a very old electrical system that was likely put in when only 2 wires fed each outlet and lamp socket. When the tech used the 3:2 adapter, he was installing a work around to ensure grounds were not connected. You do need to be aware that this is not as safe as a properly grounded electrical system. Not a lot you can do at this point about that without ripping open walls and installing a modern electrical panel. 
Please understand that a number of us thrive on the technical detail and always want to understand the workings. Without actually looking at your system with test equipment, we can only go by what you say and sometimes that is insufficient for us to fully understand the problem or offer suggestions.
The GFCI you installed will improve the safety even if the ground leg is not connected.


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## GoofyNut

As one of you, or both, said, there is a problem with the wiring: it's old!! When the receiver initially shorted the system out, there were two receivers plugged in to the same circuit. They had been like this for almost three years with no problems. When the one receiver shorted out, it caused the electrical problem. However, I was only interested in getting my system up and running. My solution, although it accomplished what I wanted, doesn't address the fact that when the DISH receiver shorted out, it caused something else in the electrical system to malfunction and it needed attending to. I know that the only fix for this is probably to upgrade the entire electrical system. Which, I am not ready to do at this point. When I am ready, I'm sure that the electrician I choose will find the origin of the problem and I'll most likely be calling DISH because they've already admitted that the source of it all stemmed from their bad wiring.
But, as a fix for someone, like me, who wants to get their system up and running first and foremost, it does do the trick. Any other problems regarding the electrical can, and will be dealt with afterwards. You guys should know that the average consumer is mainly concerned with fixing the task at hand. Therefore, the solutions that they are seeking should be addressed as such. Because, even though you may say exactly what the problem is, it still doesn't give the answer sought after and maybe the answer is to do something that they are not financially set up to do at the time.
Yes, my system is safely working now. This allows me to be able to have the electrical issues dealt with in my time frame, not because it has to be for safety reasons. Does that make sense? I hope so...
All that I was trying to do by posting what happened was to some info about getting a satellite system up and running. The electrical aspect is a whole different ball of wax! And I wouldn't even begin to try to tell anyone how to fix it or what they should try to fix it or anything. They should call an electrician when the y can. But, do it on their own terms. :smoking:
Also, forgive me if I reacted poorly to your responses to my post. I'm still a bit on edge from the past two week of living in the middle ages (no TV), and need to get back to my normally relaxed and centered self. When I do have an electrician come out, I'll be sure to post his/her initial diagnosis of everything and also the breakdown of cause and effect, as well as the recommendation, as far as everything electrical is concerned. But, as all have suggested, I will take care of the electrical system as soon as I am able to do so. :money:

Thanks!!


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## James Long

GoofyNut said:


> I'm sure that the electrician I choose will find the origin of the problem and I'll most likely be calling DISH because they've already admitted that the source of it all stemmed from their bad wiring.


When DISH supplies their receivers with a three prong grounded plug it must be connected to a grounded outlet. Did you connect their receiver to a properly grounded three prong outlet? If not, the equipment was not installed correctly. Perhaps the installers should have simply refused the installation if a grounded plug was not available.

But installers are also sometimes guilty of the "just get it running" attitude.

If you have three prong outlets in your home that are not correctly grounded then it falls back on you. A satellite installer should not need to check the integrity of the electrical system in a home. If a three prong grounded outlet is presented it needs to be a correctly grounded outlet.


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## Stewart Vernon

I've told this story dozens of times... 25 years or so ago I worked at a two-way radio shop... installing two-way radios and performing some minor repairs as well. I went to one location and they were having trouble talking to their trucks from the office base station. As I disconnected the antenna cable from the back of the radio I got a shock. It was winter, so I initially chalked it up to static. I was running tests and saw that their radio appeared to not be putting out the transmit power levels it was rated for, so I was preparing them for the "I'll need to take this back to the shop and let a technician look at it" bit.

Disconnecting my test equipment, I was shocked again. Okay, that was weird... so I got out my voltmeter and checked... there was ~60 Volts on the antenna line without the radio even connected! The non-powered antenna on the roof somehow "magically" had power supplied to it. Two-and-two started to come together and I realized it was entirely possible nothing was wrong with their radio after all, but the voltage on the antenna line was providing interference... so I began to look around.

I got into my X-Files/Supernatural questioning of "have you done anything new recently"... and found out they had bought a new computer and when they installed it they got a surge suppressor. On a lark, I unplugged that suppressor, and poof there went the voltage from the antenna line... and their radio was putting out full power again! I still took the radio back to be checked, since those things were not designed with the intent of having that kind of voltage on the antenna as an input for a sustained time like that... and I told them that they either needed a new suppressor OR a wiring check of their building OR probably both. I told them what they currently had was more like a surge inducer!  And that they were safer for the moment not using that at all given the other problems it was causing.

It wasn't until years later, running into other people who had similar experiences that I concluded the suppressor itself was probably fine... but the building likely was not properly wired at least on some circuits, and the introduction of the suppressor was bringing that to light.

Dollars to doughnuts what you have is a wiring problem in your home, and you may or may not have other looming problems if you don't get that taken care of... I agree that the "workaround" by the Dish tech was probably a bit of sleight-of-hand fluff non-explanation he told you just to get out of there after he ungrounded your antenna.


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## Michael P

There is a small current generated by the dish receiver on the coax for powering and controlling the LNB and switches. _* It's supposed to be there.*_ You are not supposed to disconnect the coax while the dish receiver is plugged in. Don't try to measure it. If you are getting all the channels the system is working properly. I believe it's around 12 or 13 volts. Early switches used 2 different voltages to switch between clockwise and counterclockwise polarization. I experienced problems when F connectors let condensation into the coax, causing only the low voltage to make it to the LNB. I could only get half of the channels because the higher voltage was not making the LNB change polarity.

Just because coax is also used for OTA signals you can't treat it in the same way. Keep the receiver unplugged until all the connections are made or you may cause damage to all the equipment connected.


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## charlzjt

HoytR said:


> As I was about to attach the coaxial cable to my second replacement reciever I noticed a slight shock. Using my multimeter from the cable to the reciever it read 115 Volts.
> 
> Couple days later I finally get to the store to buy one of those GFI testers. Disconnect the cable to check the voltage and am now getting 58 volts.
> 
> I have the reciever and tv plugged into a surge protector, which is plugged into an outlet. With everything plugged in the outlet shows hot/neutral reversed, with nothing plugged in the outlet shows open ground which is how it should read. (old house) I checked other outlets on the same breaker and they read open ground as well. Anhow....
> 
> When I disconnect the coaxial cable from the reciever the outlet goes from hot/neutral reversed to open ground. Reconnect the cable & unplug the receiver's from the surge protector I still get the hot/neutral switched, but if I disconnect the HDMI cable from the TV then it goes to open ground. I plugged the receiver directly to the outlet and had the same results.( no surge protector) I know that the cable is grounded to the outside edge of my electrial panel on the outside of the house but don't recall seeing the dish being grounded. Sorry for such the lengthy post but I want to cover all the bases.
> 
> What could be causing my problem?


I suggest that you get an electrician to check the connections within the outlet....The neutral and ground wires that connect to the receptacle could be loose or broken...The ground could be acting as a neutral; causing a hazard shock when you touch it.......The neutral wire carries the unbalanced load of the the current stream....When it's broken voltage fluctuation can occur.....The breaker would normally trip; though when the ground is loose and the neutral amps are charging through the then floating equipment ground; the breaker doesn't have a fault..The breaker won't trip out then......cJT


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## P Smith

Michael P said:


> I believe it's around 12 or 13 volts. Early switches used 2 different voltages


It was _legacy_ equipment: +13VDC for R/V and +18VDC for L/H polarization, next level was SW models and then DP/DPP/etc using DiSEqC like commands (formed by 22KHz tone)


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