# ViP622/ViP722 - L6.21 Software Experiences/Bugs Discussion



## Flasshe

I found one issue already. The aspect ratio on the modulated output is majorly out of whack compared to what it used to be. Everything is fine to my HDTV through HDMI, but my other TVs connected via of the TV1 modulated output show the wrong aspect ratio. This happens with both SD and HD channels, and on both widescreen and 4:3 TVs. For example, if I'm watching an HD channel through the modulated output on a widescreen TV (with the format on "normal"), the picture still goes all the way to the sides, but is now very squished vertically and there are large black bars at the top and bottom. The picture used to fill the screen in all dimensions. (Yes, I know I'm not actually getting HD through the modulated output, but at least it didn't used to change the aspect ratio.) It used to be when watching an SD channel on the 4:3 TV through the modulated output, I would have to switch to "stretch" mode to avoid the gray bars on the side. Now there are no side bars on the 4:3 in "gray bar" or "normal" mode and doing "stretch" cuts off the sides of the picture.

Note I am running in single mode, not dual.

I was hoping there was some new setting to control the modulated output, but there doesn't appear to be one.


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## harsh

The display mode should follow whatever your main TV is set for in HD Setup (16:9). What do you have the HD Setup set for?


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## Flasshe

harsh said:


> The display mode should follow whatever your main TV is set for in HD Setup (16:9). What do you have the HD Setup set for?


It's 16:9, but it's always been set that way. I didn't change it with the new update. In the past, it's always displayed things correctly without changing format on any of the 16:9 TVs. But now, no fiddling of the aspect format on either the DVR and/or the TV itself makes it look exactly right on the 16:9 ones connected to the modulated output. Something's always getting cut off or distorted. This is definitely a change.

In addition, I just noticed that watching an SD channel on the 16:9 connected via modulated output acts just like "stretch", even though the DVR is in "normal" mode. In fact, "normal", "gray bar" and "stretch" all give the exact same picture!

I can put two 16:9 TVs side by side and output the same thing to them. In "gray bar" mode watching an SD channel, the one connected to HDMI has the gray bars on the side and the one connected to the modulated output has none (it's stretched).

You know, it's almost looking to me like it's always assuming the modulated output is hooked to a 4:3 TV, no matter what you have the HDTV format set to.


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## Gene Steinberg

Oh well, I haven't gotten my update. I'm still on L.618.

I can live even without the features you folks mention, actually.

Peace,
Gene


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## tedb3rd

I got the update... They seem to have added an auto reboot too about every 45 minutes.


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## Gene Steinberg

Why would it auto reboot every 45 min?

That sounds illogical.

Peace,
Gene


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## tedb3rd

I was being somewhat of a smarty. Ever since the upgrade yesterday, the 622 will lock up and reboot. Twice, when it's come back, I've gotten an error message saying the DVR events can't be used and to try to unplug for one minute. That corrects the DVR problem but it will still reboot about every 45 min - 1 hour. Kinda annoying.


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## Flasshe

No spontaneous reboot problems here, so far.


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## Gene Steinberg

tedb3rd said:


> I was being somewhat of a smarty. Ever since the upgrade yesterday, the 622 will lock up and reboot. Twice, when it's come back, I've gotten an error message saying the DVR events can't be used and to try to unplug for one minute. That corrects the DVR problem but it will still reboot about every 45 min - 1 hour. Kinda annoying.


This sounds like a case for the tech support people.

Peace,
Gene


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## Ron Barry

tedb3rd said:


> I was being somewhat of a smarty. Ever since the upgrade yesterday, the 622 will lock up and reboot. Twice, when it's come back, I've gotten an error message saying the DVR events can't be used and to try to unplug for one minute. That corrects the DVR problem but it will still reboot about every 45 min - 1 hour. Kinda annoying.


I assume you did pull the plug on it and watch a few minutes and plug it back in to see if things restore to normal. Can you provide details as to how many timers you have, timer events, and Dish Passes. Might be good to track your configuration to see if that is related. Also might want to include details as to if OTA is connected and what Sats you are pointing to.

First step is a pull the plug reboot and see if that clears things up. Some have the opinion that sometimes memory does not get fully flushed and some strange things can happen.


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## DaGnome

I'm still on 6.18 on my 722... and *knock on wood* so far no issues (though I did have Audio issues on a few channels way back when)

I noticed Ron mentioned:


Ron Barry said:


> *ViP622/ViP722 - L6.21 Software Experiences/Bugs Discussion*
> 
> _*Reported Fixes or new Features:*_
> 
> Playlist
> History Changes (split up into "DVR history", which tells you what you watched when - very cool, and "timer history", which just goes to the Daily Schedule screen)
> "My Groups" option (Create your own custom groups)


Could someone elaborate on these features? Specifically the MyGroups option? Is this Dishs way of letting us move recordings into Folders of some sort? I can't find any information about any of the features mentioned above.

Thanks in advance


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## DustoMan

DaGnome said:


> Could someone elaborate on these features?


And what exactly does "playlist" mean? We can queue up recordings to play in a particular order? I didn't know I ever wanted to do that.


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## MrC

DaGnome said:


> Could someone elaborate on these features? Specifically the MyGroups option? Is this Dishs way of letting us move recordings into Folders of some sort? I can't find any information about any of the features mentioned above.


My Groups allows you to create named groups (think: folders), where you can move recordings from the main DVR list into the group folder. This helps reduce clutter.

So, if you had various household members who each had their own programs, programs can be moved into a Kids folder, Mom folder, General folder, etc. You get to name the folders.

In addition, you can set/modify your timers to automatically place newly recorded programs into a given group. Group folders will sort according to your Sort preferences. When sorted by DVR date, empty folders will sort to the bottom of the list.


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## RoughDobermann

My 722 received this alleged "upgrade" this morning. While the guide and other menu items were available, when a channel was selected, neither video nor audio was displayed. Just a black screen. So, I did the press and hold down power button re-boot and after all the usual tests finished, we had audio and video again. Went on a hike up in the mountains and came back to the same problem. Re-boot fixed it again, but I really don't want to have to do this every few hours.

Any suggestions? I haven't tried the remove power supply re-boot yet. Nor do I think I should have to. I hate firmware.


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## Ron Barry

Next step RoughDobermann would be to do the power cord reset. See if that clears up things.


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## DaGnome

MrC said:


> My Groups allows you to create named groups (think: folders), where you can move recordings from the main DVR list into the group folder. This helps reduce clutter.


Finally!!!!!! Have any idea if this works on both the internal and external drives? or just internal for now?

Can't wait for my update....well that is if the 'reboot' problem is just a selected few machines... if it's the entire firmware... this guinnea pig will pass for now.


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## FarmerBob

Flasshe said:


> I found one issue already. The aspect ratio on the modulated output is majorly out of whack compared to what it used to be. Everything is fine to my HDTV through HDMI, but my other TVs connected via of the TV1 modulated output show the wrong aspect ratio. This happens with both SD and HD channels, and on both widescreen and 4:3 TVs. For example, if I'm watching an HD channel through the modulated output on a widescreen TV (with the format on "normal"), the picture still goes all the way to the sides, but is now very squished vertically and there are large black bars at the top and bottom. The picture used to fill the screen in all dimensions. (Yes, I know I'm not actually getting HD through the modulated output, but at least it didn't used to change the aspect ratio.) It used to be when watching an SD channel on the 4:3 TV through the modulated output, I would have to switch to "stretch" mode to avoid the gray bars on the side. Now there are no side bars on the 4:3 in "gray bar" or "normal" mode and doing "stretch" cuts off the sides of the picture.
> 
> Note I am running in single mode, not dual.
> 
> I was hoping there was some new setting to control the modulated output, but there doesn't appear to be one.


I'm in single mode on a 722 and noticed that through those outputs I was getting the 16:9 ratio but with a wide band of black around the edges (proportionally reduced picture) or full screen height but SD width. Also noticing a "smoothness" flicker. For a second that picture goes grainy with shiny edges and then it smooths and the edges no longer shine. Then it flicks back.

Also I have noticed a change in the PQ. I was promised by my TSR that there was a fix on the way for the bad PQ, inaccurate and hyper-dense blacks (muddy grayscale). It's not exactly fixed, but getting there _and_ I have lost the use of several picture settings on my set. Mainly the HDMI Black Level that has Normal and Low settings. It is now set to Normal, grayed out and unchangeable. I tried to run my color calibrator and it knows not of DLP and gets half way through the test and freezes. I'm hoping that they don't think that they are done fixing the PQ? And blocking out calibration features since my 50A650 has so many settings could be a good thing, you can really mess yourself up. The miracles of HDMI technology. As long as they don't strip out too many controls.

*UPDATE:*
I had the opportunity to play with my rack monitor and have notice that it no longer shows a 1:1 16:9 picture, I have to set the aspect to Zoom 1 and I get a perfect picture with no overscan compared to the HDMI connection. But if I return to the setting, Aspect, to where I use to get a proper 16:9 RF picture, the picture is proportional 16:9, but small, not filling the screen. Setting it to "Full" where it should be proper, it stretches the picture widthwise. Whereas, the same setting with Component gets me a proper 16:9. I get this from both modulators on various channels. Before I was really happy that I was getting proper 16:9 that I could, when need be, inject directly into my in-house system giving me back two channels that I would have to use for that box.

Also . . . I'm having a harder time dialing in a good picture now that certain adjustment options through HDMI are disabled. I do not like this at all.

_Another *UPDATE:*_
On my 50" DLP I am noticing a lot more motion pixelation since 6.21. I have gone back and reviewed programming that I had seen under 6.18 and I know of places where there was no motion problems, there are now. Equilibrium was on a premium channel (which I recorded and used as later reference) and I decided that I wanted to add it to my collection, since it's not out on Blu-ray yet I'd have to go DVD. I was able to snag a new copy from Blockbuster for $7. When I got it home I put it in my Pioneer DVD carousel and to catalog it it has to play. WOW! There was a definite audio difference (audio hooked up identically to the 722) and I watched some scenes that caused motion problems on the 722 and off the DVD via component, none. 722 via HDMI, problems. This, along with the disabling of monitor settings . . . I'm beginning to think 6.21 is a major step backwards.

*UPDATE* on the above . . .
Just got a reply from DISH asking the same ol' boiler plate questions that really have nothing to do with the root problem, but talk of a complete signal outage, weather relates issues and the lot. But is step one start as they always do hoping that you'll get tired and stop responding to the tiresome process. I did all their tests on a crystal clear afternoon, so . . . I also gave them the body of text from early in L6.18 when I was told of the PQ issues that where to be fixed one day and asked that they start there, if not inquire of the same Tech who told me of them. We'll see what happens now.​
_*UPDATED UPDATE:*_
Just as I was done typing the above I got a reply to my reply saying that a service call was in order. I'm not going through this again. But then I always gt a ton of info and handfuls of lovely parting gifts. Oooo! I wonder what I'll get this time. That is unless I talk them out of it over the phone when making the appt. A service call is really not necessary.​


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## tigrbuzz

assuming based on, drum roll please.......

dreaded reboot problem appeared yesterday.

About every 45 minutes to 2 hours yesterday it ran the reboot cycle and would come back ok.

Finally, last night sometime after 9, just died and wouldn't reboot. Fan just running - TV1 light on. After about 3 to 5 minutes all the front lights would flicker and then it would go back to TV1 light only.

I unplugged the unit and went to bed. Got up this morning, plugged it in, and it came back on. I haven't had a reboot cycle. Yet.

Here is hoping it doesn't happen to you.

This is only the 2nd problem in 2 1/2 years with the 622. About 8 months ago the HDMI port went bad. My current 622 is a refurb that old.


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## kucharsk

No problems with my 722 so far.

I somehow suspect the usual trick play bugs will be there.


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## Gene Steinberg

Just a note that, as of today, I still have the L6.18 software on my VIP-722. So is this being rolled out very, very gradually? Or did they stop deploying it for last-minute bugs?

Peace,
Gene


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## Ron Barry

The usually roll out software for the 622/722 in phases and it is been out for a day so I definitely would not call this very gradually. I would call this normal roll out procedure.


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## Gene Steinberg

Ron Barry said:


> The usually roll out software for the 622/722 in phases and it is been out for a day so I definitely would not call this very gradually. I would call this normal roll out procedure.


Thanks for the heads up. I've only been with Dish a short time.

Peace,
Gene


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## Ron Barry

No problem Gene and welcome to DBSTalk. Cool Avatar! As far as roll outs go, they can take up to a couple of weeks to do a full roll out (Depending on how fast or slow Dish wants to go) and there have been times where they stop the roll out, fix and issue, and roll out another version. 

At this point, too early to tell how things are going and anybody that gets it by all means provide as much feedback as possible. 

The MyGroup feature is well thought out in my mind. To me it is more like a filtering system than a grouping system since you can toggle between MyGroups, Default Grouping, and no Groups. I created Groupings like Dad's Movies, Dads Shows, General Movies, Sons Shows. Makes it much easier for me to locate what I am interested in. I also like the fact that if I have multiples of the same show and I don't have them set for one of My Groups, they still maintain their default grouping rather than no grouping. Had two ways to go on that one and I am glad they choose that one. To me it was the right one.


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## Gene Steinberg

Ron Barry said:


> No problem Gene and welcome to DBSTalk. Cool Avatar! As far as roll outs go, they can take up to a couple of weeks to do a full roll out (Depending on how fast or slow Dish wants to go) and there have been times where they stop the roll out, fix and issue, and roll out another version.
> 
> At this point, too early to tell how things are going and anybody that gets it by all means provide as much feedback as possible.
> 
> The MyGroup feature is well thought out in my mind. To me it is more like a filtering system than a grouping system since you can toggle between MyGroups, Default Grouping, and no Groups. I created Groupings like Dad's Movies, Dads Shows, General Movies, Sons Shows. Makes it much easier for me to locate what I am interested in. I also like the fact that if I have multiples of the same show and I don't have them set for one of My Groups, they still maintain their default grouping rather than no grouping. Had two ways to go on that one and I am glad they choose that one. To me it was the right one.


It sounds like a great feature -- would be if we needed it. But it's just the wife and myself, and we have a unified diet of shows that has transitioned through our previous provider, Cox, and now Dish.

Peace,
Gene


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## phrelin

Ron Barry said:


> The MyGroup feature is well thought out in my mind. To me it is more like a filtering system than a grouping system since you can toggle between MyGroups, Default Grouping, and no Groups. I created Groupings like Dad's Movies, Dads Shows, General Movies, Sons Shows. Makes it much easier for me to locate what I am interested in. I also like the fact that if I have multiples of the same show and I don't have them set for one of My Groups, they still maintain their default grouping rather than no grouping. Had two ways to go on that one and I am glad they choose that one. To me it was the right one.


Ron, does it function on an external hard drive? If so, I'm going to shift moods from ho-hum to impatient waiting for it.:sure:


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## Henry

phrelin said:


> Ron, does it function on an external hard drive? If so, I'm going to shift moods from ho-hum to impatient waiting for it.:sure:


I'm still waiting for my download, but I'm really interested to read Ron's anwer on this. If it indeed mirrors the Mygroups to the EHD, it would be a home run in my book. This will allow me to separate seasons of the same show, and other things.

As for waiting, I'd say this is a normal release. Sometimes they'll stop it in mid-stream for debugging, but they usually give the fixed release a new number then. Either way, I'm four or five days down on the list. The delay lets me read what to expect here... like a preview.


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## Flasshe

Still no reboots here, crossing my fingers.

I'd love to explain what "Playlist" is and how it works, but I can't figure it out. When I click on the button, it leaves all menus and goes back to TV. Anyone figure it out?

Don't know if MyGroups works on an EHD, since I don't have one.

Oh, and I think I said in my original post that "DVR History" shows which programs you watched when. But it really just shows what programs you deleted when. I think.


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## TulsaOK

When a program is deleted from a group, the program name remains until you exit the group and reselect it.
I have a Transfer button that's grayed out. Anyone have any idea what that's about?
Also, navigating in the My Recordings area is very sluggish.


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## MrC

DaGnome said:


> Finally!!!!!! Have any idea if this works on both the internal and external drives? or just internal for now?





phrelin said:


> Ron, does it function on an external hard drive? If so, I'm going to shift moods from ho-hum to impatient waiting for it.:sure:





HDG said:


> ... If it indeed mirrors the Mygroups to the EHD, it would be a home run in my book. This will allow me to separate seasons of the same show, and other things.


Sorry, main drive only. No EHD groups. No home run.


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## Henry

MrC said:


> Sorry, main drive only. No EHD groups. No home run.


Rats.


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## phrelin

MrC said:


> Sorry, main drive only. No EHD groups. No home run.


Not really very handy unless you archive recordings on your internal drive which is quite limiting. It's frustrating that the most basic functions of operating systems on pc's since there were pc's were not inherently incorporated into a computer this sophisticated.:nono:


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## harsh

phrelin said:


> It's frustrating that the most basic functions of operating systems on pc's since there were pc's were not inherently incorporated into a computer this sophisticated.


You may be surprised to learn that the original versions of PC-DOS didn't support subdirectories. Then again, most people don't know that IBM developed the PC primarily as a smart terminal (thin client).


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## Henry

phrelin said:


> Not really very handy unless you archive recordings on your internal drive which is quite limiting. It's frustrating that the most basic functions of operating systems on pc's since there were pc's were not inherently incorporated into a computer this sophisticated.:nono:


+1

It's always something short of the mark. Yet another function I may not use. I didn't like when I couldn't group on the EHD. Now I can group but can't sub-group.

I guess if I'm patient enough, the software gerbils will figure out how to make it work. So I'll wait.


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## MrC

HDG said:


> +1
> 
> It's always something short of the mark. Yet another function I may not use. I didn't like when I couldn't group on the EHD. Now I can group but can't sub-group.
> 
> I guess if I'm patient enough, the software gerbils will figure out how to make it work. So I'll wait.


Don't hold your breath. I think it is clear that focus is not on making the EHD as easy to use as the main interface (e.g. there is no Delete button for immediate use after playing an EHD event).

It seems the EHD is truly thought of as a simplistic *archiving* device, with the most basic, rudimentary features.

The good news is that folder group tags persist.


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## Henry

MrC said:


> Don't hold your breath. I think it is clear that focus is not on making the EHD as easy to use as the main interface (e.g. there is no Delete button for immediate use after playing an EHD event).
> 
> It seems the EHD is truly thought of as a simplistic *archiving* device, with the most basic, rudimentary features.
> 
> The good news is that folder group tags persist.


Product evolution would seem to argue against that, but you may be right.

I'll give you this: it is simplistic. The rub came in when someone in software decided to make the internal and external drives homogenous in function. One can't help but like the .. um ... _likeness_ of the two. For a while, both drives acted as the other ... now this.

I'd like to think they've hit a wall of some kind and are releasing what they have until they can figure it out. Hopeful thinking, yes ... let's just hope it doesn't sink the ship. :sure:


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## Flasshe

An update on my problem with the modulator output from the top of this thread: I fixed it by going into Dual Mode and then back into Single Mode. The "letterbox" setting in TV2/Dual Mode was a lot like what was happening to my TV1 modulated output in Single Mode on "Normal". All is okay now and I haven't had any other problems with the update.


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## TulsaOK

MrC said:


> Don't hold your breath. I think it is clear that focus is not on making the EHD as easy to use as the main interface (e.g. there is no Delete button for immediate use after playing an EHD event).
> 
> It seems the EHD is truly thought of as a simplistic *archiving* device, with the most basic, rudimentary features.
> 
> The good news is that folder group tags persist.


I think you are correct. The EHD is what it is and that's what it's going to be. Extremely cumbersome but somewhat useful. I suppose it was worth the $39 activation fee.


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## TulsaOK

What is the Transfer button?


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## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> I think you are correct. The EHD is what it is and that's what it's going to be. *Extremely cumbersome but somewhat useful.* I suppose it was worth the $39 activation fee.


Then you're missing the point behind _"compatibility"._


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## tnsprin

Looks like they rolled this out to the next group of receivers. My lowest numbered receiver (i.e. oldest) had it load early this morning.

The new my groups works fairly well, even though it is reported not working on EHD. I didn't bother connecting one of mine to test groups on the receiver that now has L621.

As reported Playlist doesn't seem to do anything but dropping you out of the menus. If anyone knows different let us know.

The DVR and Timer history have returned. This was a useful feature especially when trying to figure what happened to your timers and recordings, that had been missing for several software releases now. The history has apparently still been being kept, but you couldn't access it.

Transfer? Is this button for pocket dish or something else.

To fit some of these items on menus, some, which use to have all the options displayed, now have a scrolling list of options.


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## TulsaOK

HDG said:


> Then you're mssing the point behind _"compatibility"._


Enlighten me.


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## TulsaOK

tnsprin said:


> To fit some of these items on menus, some, which use to have all the options displayed, now have a scrolling list of options.


I see now we have to scroll to the top or bottom of the list instead of the menu wrapping.


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## russ9

In regards to the aspect ratio on the secondary outputs, I had the same issue as the earlier post - a 16x9 HD channel suddenly was not in the correct format on a 16x9 set. I changed the seeing to 4x3 (and stretch) to be able to watch the show, and on changing it back to 16x9 to watch something on my main TV, noticed the aspect ratio had returned to the proper mode on the secondary outputs. So, it looks like if you have this problem, cycle the ratio (menu 6,8).


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## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> Enlighten me.


Nah ... enjoy your cumbersome drive.


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## TulsaOK

Flasshe said:


> I found one issue already. The aspect ratio on the modulated output is majorly out of whack compared to what it used to be. Everything is fine to my HDTV through HDMI, but my other TVs connected via of the TV1 modulated output show the wrong aspect ratio. This happens with both SD and HD channels, and on both widescreen and 4:3 TVs. For example, if I'm watching an HD channel through the modulated output on a widescreen TV (with the format on "normal"), the picture still goes all the way to the sides, but is now very squished vertically and there are large black bars at the top and bottom. The picture used to fill the screen in all dimensions. (Yes, I know I'm not actually getting HD through the modulated output, but at least it didn't used to change the aspect ratio.) It used to be when watching an SD channel on the 4:3 TV through the modulated output, I would have to switch to "stretch" mode to avoid the gray bars on the side. Now there are no side bars on the 4:3 in "gray bar" or "normal" mode and doing "stretch" cuts off the sides of the picture.
> 
> Note I am running in single mode, not dual.
> 
> I was hoping there was some new setting to control the modulated output, but there doesn't appear to be one.


I'm noticing the same thing. My setup is exactly like yours. Modulated output is in Stretch mode though it indicates Normal. I haven't messed with it much because I usually set the mode to Stretch anyway.


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## kstuart

HDG said:


> I'm still waiting for my download, but I'm really interested to read Ron's anwer on this. If it indeed mirrors the Mygroups to the EHD, it would be a home run in my book. This will allow me to separate seasons of the same show, and other things.


Unfortunately, while you can set a Timer to put all its recordings in a Group, you cannot set individual Events.
So, for example, if you have a Timer for "House" on USA-HD, you can set the Timer to put all its recordings in a Group ("Set to Group" in Options), but since USA shows random episodes, the Timer will record episodes from various seasons. And, you cannot in advance set an individual Event to go to a "House S02" Group (no "Set to Group" in the Options) - you have to do that *after* the Event records (it can be done any time after the event starts to record).


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## Ron Barry

HDG said:


> Then you're missing the point behind _"compatibility"._


I would personally use the word consistency and not compatibility. I don't see any incompatibilities introduced with this new feature but at this moment it is inconsistent between the EHD and your internal recordings.

I would also say that the feature gives the user the ability to Group their recordings by custom groups, auto grouping, or No Groups. I would not be surprised to see it added to EHD at a later date but there is definitely some use cases that are added with EHD support.

Example.. You move over a show in Group1 to your EHD, disconnect your EHD, two weeks later removed Group1 and then reconnect your EHD. Should it show Group1?

I am sure to some grouping appears to be just a directory structure but given the fact you can toggle between MyGroups and Group by Title to me It appears more of a logical concept to help the user and not a file management tool. As to if it it gets added to EHD, I am sure depends on if the meta data is stored on the EHD itself and if handling those edge conditions like above can be handled in a consistent manner.

Well that is how I see. To me this feature has a lot of value with or without EHD support, but I can see how the guys with large EHD drives and multiple drives would want this to support EHD and would even want something more powerful.


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## tcooper185

Kent Taylor said:


> I see now we have to scroll to the top or bottom of the list instead of the menu wrapping.


I noticed that almost immediately, and hate it. This was the quickest way to delete a DVR'd event, and now deleting is cumbersome. Pain in the rear. I'd like to see the choices reordered to get rid of the 2nd page of menu choices.


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## tcooper185

Never mind...it's not as bad as I thought it was...not sure what I was thinking.


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## Ron Barry

I was wondering what you were thinking and how reordering would make room so all the buttons fit. Basically it looks like when then added My Groups then ran out of button space and add to add the scrolling.


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## gezster

Took the L6.21 this morning on my 622 and receiver locked up this afternoon. Pulled the plug. Came up error can't access hard drive. 0521. 

Called Dish at this point and sat on hold. Pulled the plug again waited a few minutes tried again came up without error but locked up during acquiring satellite. Pulled plug again came up with error 311 reference 0521 again. Pulled plug again came up and I could see the hard drive but all recordings were gone. 

Finally got through to a dish rep on chat kept the phone on speaker while chatting to rep. At this point I had been on hold on the phone for 2 hours. Rep had me pull the plug on the receiver again and it came up with error saying that the hard drive was corrupted asking to delete all recordings message 760. 

Did that and it came up with error 311 reference 0ef5 can't access hard drive message same as the 0521 message. Receiver locked up again. Rep said time for a new receiver. Got them to waive the shipping and credit me a week of programming. I was tempted to push for more. Lost 20 hours of programming that I hadn't transfered to external and had 78 unique timers setup. Chat took 30 minutes to complete.

The receiver rebooted itself and came up working fine hard drive empty. I was able to watch tv even was able to pause it for a few seconds and was able to watch from the buffer then paused it longer and the receiver locked up again. Error 311 is back with reference 0521. 

Before this update I had not experienced a single problem with this 622 its my 3rd one but I've had this one since March 07. 
I finally hung up the phone after 3 and half hours as the battery was nearly dead on the cordless. Never managed to get anyone on the line.


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## kstuart

That sort of failure has nothing to do with the update itself, it is just that the update procedure causes a bad hard disk to fail.

I myself have had it happen on a different model of receiver after an update...


----------



## phrelin

gezster said:


> Took the L6.21 this morning on my 622 and receiver locked up this afternoon. Pulled the plug. Came up error can't access hard drive. 0521.
> 
> Called Dish at this point and sat on hold. Pulled the plug again waited a few minutes tried again came up without error but locked up during acquiring satellite. Pulled plug again came up with error 311 reference 0521 again. Pulled plug again came up and I could see the hard drive but all recordings were gone.
> 
> Finally got through to a dish rep on chat kept the phone on speaker while chatting to rep. At this point I had been on hold on the phone for 2 hours. Rep had me pull the plug on the receiver again and it came up with error saying that the hard drive was corrupted asking to delete all recordings message 760.
> 
> Did that and it came up with error 311 reference 0ef5 can't access hard drive message same as the 0521 message. Receiver locked up again. Rep said time for a new receiver. Got them to waive the shipping and credit me a week of programming. I was tempted to push for more. Lost 20 hours of programming that I hadn't transfered to external and had 78 unique timers setup. Chat took 30 minutes to complete.
> 
> The receiver rebooted itself and came up working fine hard drive empty. I was able to watch tv even was able to pause it for a few seconds and was able to watch from the buffer then paused it longer and the receiver locked up again. Error 311 is back with reference 0521.
> 
> Before this update I had not experienced a single problem with this 622 its my 3rd one but I've had this one since March 07.
> I finally hung up the phone after 3 and half hours as the battery was nearly dead on the cordless. Never managed to get anyone on the line.


Haven't gotten L6.21 yet, but sorry to hear that. As soon as I read it was spooling I moved everything off my 722 and onto the EHD and do so every night except for Letterman and Conan.

By the way,:welcome_s


----------



## wwfmike

Flasshe said:


> I found one issue already. The aspect ratio on the modulated output is majorly out of whack compared to what it used to be. Everything is fine to my HDTV through HDMI, but my other TVs connected via of the TV1 modulated output show the wrong aspect ratio. This happens with both SD and HD channels, and on both widescreen and 4:3 TVs. For example, if I'm watching an HD channel through the modulated output on a widescreen TV (with the format on "normal"), the picture still goes all the way to the sides, but is now very squished vertically and there are large black bars at the top and bottom. The picture used to fill the screen in all dimensions. (Yes, I know I'm not actually getting HD through the modulated output, but at least it didn't used to change the aspect ratio.) It used to be when watching an SD channel on the 4:3 TV through the modulated output, I would have to switch to "stretch" mode to avoid the gray bars on the side. Now there are no side bars on the 4:3 in "gray bar" or "normal" mode and doing "stretch" cuts off the sides of the picture.
> 
> Note I am running in single mode, not dual.
> 
> I was hoping there was some new setting to control the modulated output, but there doesn't appear to be one.


I had this same problem but cleared it by cycling through PIP. But now I want it back!! I am using dual view and would like the option included on my aspect ratio button for it. I would love to watch widescreen content on my bedroom 4x3 in letterbox form rather then stretched or normal. Is this possible?


----------



## teddy

It looks like Dish has tweaked the HDMI handshaking. At long last my setup passes the 1080P/24 test for VOD. I have my 622 connected via HDMI through a Denon AV receiver to a Pioneer Kuro Elite plasma TV. Up until this last update I could not pass the test with this set up, although if I connected the 622 to my TV directly I could pass the test. 
It is nice to know I can now easily access the 1080P content if I wish. :hurah:

Now, if Dish could just allow pass-through of the native resolution video....


----------



## dmspen

Ron Barry said:


> Basically it looks like when then added My Groups then ran out of button space and add to add the scrolling.


I hate the scrolling. When designing GUIs, button efficiency is a must. Maybe they should shrink the buttons to make them all fit.:nono2:


----------



## russ9

wwfmike said:


> I had this same problem but cleared it by cycling through PIP. But now I want it back!! I am using dual view and would like the option included on my aspect ratio button for it. I would love to watch widescreen content on my bedroom 4x3 in letterbox form rather then stretched or normal. Is this possible?


After the daily reboot it reset itself to the stretch. 
So, that makes 3 solutions - yours being the easiest.


----------



## TBoneit

DaGnome said:


> Finally!!!!!! Have any idea if this works on both the internal and external drives? or just internal for now?
> 
> Can't wait for my update....well that is if the 'reboot' problem is just a selected few machines... if it's the entire firmware... this guinnea pig will pass for now.


I was hoping for the external to have groups however.....

My guess is that they could not make it so groups on the external drive would not stop the drive from working on non upgraded receivers such as the VIP612.

As for as the buttons could they not give them numbers so that when I hit the PVR button twice to get to my recordings, until I leave that screen a 1 would be the first button on the right and 4 would be the 4th button o n the right and so on.

Cheers


----------



## wwfmike

dmspen said:


> I hate the scrolling. When designing GUIs, button efficiency is a must. Maybe they should shrink the buttons to make them all fit.:nono2:


I dont remember if this worked before the update but I just use the page up arrow to quickly get to the top of the list. It seems silly though that the wrap around was disabled.


----------



## Jill73

I had the same problem with the aspect ratio and I also was able to fix by cycling through PIP. No spontaneous reboots so far - I'm knocking on wood - and rolling my eyes that we have to go through this stuff every time they put out a software update. grrrrrr!!


----------



## kstuart

The only aspect ratio change that I see is that TV2 now displays HD channels correctly, by letterboxing them. This is in single mode, and did not change after the daily update reboot.


----------



## Ron Barry

TBoneit said:


> As for as the buttons could they not give them numbers so that when I hit the PVR button twice to get to my recordings, until I leave that screen a 1 would be the first button on the right and 4 would be the 4th button o n the right and so on.


I would expect that they could, but unless they include the number then the person would have to do the translation of button position to number and I am not sure how useful that would be in practice especially if the number was not shown. Showing the number introduced some cosmetic issues and I am not sure I would like that.

Interesting Idea, but personally I would not be a fan of it.


----------



## Giljorak

Here are two posts I made on another forum about L621:



> Saw that I had L621 on Friday morning and created two groups, then assigned the timers to the appropriate group and moved my existing recordings to the groups. Several times over the weekend my 722 locked up and rebooted. What I discovered is that while trying to access a group that had an active recording being saved to it caused the issue. I deleted the 2 groups I had created, this also removed the Group entry from the timers, and the problem went away.
> 
> Next, I will re-create the groups and not assign any timers to them this time but I will put some recordings in them to see how things work out.
> 
> I tried a hard reset but that did not help.





> I was able to confirm my original findings. If you try to access a Group that has an active recording being saved to it the system will lock up and reboot. You will not be shown the contents of the selected Group. The highlighted selection bar will disappear then after 5-10 seconds it will lock up and reboot. After the reboot the system will resume the recording.
> 
> You can access other groups or recordings not in a group just fine during the above scenario.
> 
> So I guess for now I'll have Groups but not assign the timers to a group until it is done recording.


----------



## TulsaOK

Why does the program still appear when it's deleted from within a group? 
What does the Transfer button do?


----------



## thrillerbee

Has anyone else experienced this since the upgrade?

I'm watching shows on my DVR and randomly, the playback stops, and I get a message on the screen:
"The satellite signal has been lost. Signal acquisition is in progress. Please wait."
It will sit there indefinitely if I don't do anything. However, if I hit the info or guide button, the playback immediately resumes.

Can I have a downgrade now?


----------



## TulsaOK

thrillerbee said:


> Can I have a downgrade now?


No.


----------



## phrelin

Oh brother, this thread is discouraging for one who hasn't gotten the "upgrade" yet. Is it another beta release of what should have been a simple idea. In this case, creating "folders" on a computer hard drive to put files into to keep things organized, a task anyone whose worked any time with a computer on any OS knows how to do. Who thought it was a really good idea to be able to record directly into a folder in Folders v1.0? I just wanted to be able to move files into and out of folders I create without glitches.

By the way, has this upgrade fixed for anyone any of the problems discussed on various threads? I don't mean adding a few more folks who can now rent those very few 1080p movies. I mean have they fixed any of the video and audio problems the frequently appear in day-to-day HD recordings? I know I shouldn't be grumpy, but really!


----------



## BillJ

My oldest 622 got the upgrade early Thursday AM. I didn't discover it until late Thursday evening. So far no new problems as some have reported.

I took a quick look at Groups but obviously I don't know how to use them. And Help offered no help concerning Groups. When people compared them to files I thought I could create a group and move some of my recorded programs into it. For example, I have several concerts which I'd like to keep in a music group. So far I can't find a way to do this. Does Dish offer anything online to explain how to use new features?


----------



## olguy

thrillerbee said:


> Has anyone else experienced this since the upgrade?
> 
> I'm watching shows on my DVR and randomly, the playback stops, and I get a message on the screen:
> "The satellite signal has been lost. Signal acquisition is in progress. Please wait."
> It will sit there indefinitely if I don't do anything. However, if I hit the info or guide button, the playback immediately resumes.
> 
> Can I have a downgrade now?


One of my 622s has been doing this for about a week on 6.18. A power reboot will fix it for a couple of days.


----------



## RoughDobermann

Ron Barry said:


> Next step RoughDobermann would be to do the power cord reset. See if that clears up things.


I've done the power cord reset. Problem remains. Highly annoying. Guide and all other functions are fine, but no audio or video of the channels. While I enjoy looking at the interface to my 722, I pay for the content.


----------



## Ron Barry

Going to need more details here RoughDobermann. How long does it take before you lose the audio. W e are not seeing any other reports so far that sound similar to yours. Is it happening on different channels? Is there a specific channel you are seeing? Have you tried doing a PIP swap and see if the audio returns. How is your audio being feed? More details the better here.


----------



## Ron Barry

Excellent Post here. I am going to have to give this a try and see if I can reproduce it. Good detail.



> Saw that I had L621 on Friday morning and created two groups, then assigned the timers to the appropriate group and moved my existing recordings to the groups. Several times over the weekend my 722 locked up and rebooted. What I discovered is that while trying to access a group that had an active recording being saved to it caused the issue. I deleted the 2 groups I had created, this also removed the Group entry from the timers, and the problem went away.
> 
> Next, I will re-create the groups and not assign any timers to them this time but I will put some recordings in them to see how things work out.
> 
> I tried a hard reset but that did not help.





> I was able to confirm my original findings. If you try to access a Group that has an active recording being saved to it the system will lock up and reboot. You will not be shown the contents of the selected Group. The highlighted selection bar will disappear then after 5-10 seconds it will lock up and reboot. After the reboot the system will resume the recording.
> 
> You can access other groups or recordings not in a group just fine during the above scenario.
> 
> So I guess for now I'll have Groups but not assign the timers to a group until it is done recording.


----------



## bobl

No one has mentioned a minor fix that is in this new release - the font on the first information screen (the transparent one) for the episode number and date is now back to being white meaning it's now visible again. Don't know how long ago it was screwed up (i.e. the font was kind of blue and very difficult to read) but it seems like it's been close to a year.


----------



## Bradtothebone

I'm not sure this is L621-related, but I think it is:

Since L621, when I go to SlingGuide (Dish Remote Access), and then to "My DVR" -> "Recordings," I can now see all the recordings on the external hard drive as well as the internal drive. They are all lumped together in one list, and you can't separate them. I like this feature, but some may not. :shrug:

Brad


----------



## kstuart

> If you try to access a Group that has an active recording being saved to it the system will lock up and reboot. You will not be shown the contents of the selected Group. The highlighted selection bar will disappear then after 5-10 seconds it will lock up and reboot. After the reboot the system will resume the recording.


This will also occur if you try to access a Group that has an recording being played back.
I paused a playback, and then tried to enter the Group using the DVR button, and the 622 rebooted. This has always worked fine with Groups created by Program Name groupings.


----------



## askuhn

I was looking forward to this update, but the posts so far are discouraging to those that haven't gotten it yet. (With all the rebooting going on, wouldn't it be convenient if they had also included the "fast reboot" that the 625 DVRs have?  ) E* has always been great, but I wish they would stop using all of their customers as beta testers...


----------



## celder

I am new here, but I have a question. I have the Dish 722k. Dose the ota moduale that sells for $30 work or do they still have problems with it?


----------



## BobaBird

Where is the Transfer button people are talking about?

Has anyone tried backing up timers and settings to their 20.x remote?


----------



## kstuart

Another Bug - go to Search and then History - you may see nothing, not even a cursor (cancel will exit, though).


----------



## adk0212

Another new bug: When I delete a program from a group (old style groups based on program name) the program is still displayed in the group until I exit and re-enter the group. Selecting one of these "zombie" programs does nothing, although the episode info at the top of the screen still shows.


----------



## ChuckA

celder said:


> I am new here, but I have a question. I have the Dish 722k. Dose the ota moduale that sells for $30 work or do they still have problems with it?


Mine works fine. And :welcome_s to the group!


----------



## RoughDobermann

Ron Barry said:


> Going to need more details here RoughDobermann. How long does it take before you lose the audio. W e are not seeing any other reports so far that sound similar to yours. Is it happening on different channels? Is there a specific channel you are seeing? Have you tried doing a PIP swap and see if the audio returns. How is your audio being feed? More details the better here.


It seems to be a random timeframe, but it seems to happen most often overnight. I'll turn on the TV and A/V receiver, and expect to see the Dish power saving screen. I don't, however. I then press "Menu" and that pulls up all the channels. But when I go to select one (any, for that matter), neither the video nor audio for that channel is displayed. Just a black screen with no audio. All other functions of the 722 are available (Diagnostics, Installation, etc.).

No, I have not tried a PIP swap, since I don't know what that is.

Audio is fed from the 722 to an Onxyo receiver via optical TOSlink cable. Video is HDMI.

Again, this problem only began with the "upgrade" to 621.


----------



## dbconsultant

We noticed last night that when we go to delete a dvr'd event - the screen freezes. When I saw that, I said, "Gee, I wonder if we have new software?" Sure enough, we have 621.


----------



## bobl

Add another bug to the list. When watching a program that is recording on a delayed basis the banner at the top of the screen shows the remaining time left until the recording is finished rather than the time left in the program. When the recording is finished the time remaining then corrects itself.


----------



## TulsaOK

BobaBird said:


> Where is the Transfer button people are talking about?


The last menu item when starting a recording. It's grayed out.


----------



## Henry

Is L6.21 still spooling? It's been over a week. I should have downloaded it by now.


----------



## tnsprin

HDG said:


> Is L6.21 still spooling? It's been over a week. I should have downloaded it by now.


Some initial receivers got it by zip code.

I believe it is now going out by serial number ranges. It has reached my oldest receiver earlier this week but hasn't reached my next one in the 8072xxxx range.


----------



## phrelin

My 722 is at 8679xxxx and I don't have it yet. I'm in no rush. I'd prefer they stop and fix only the known new problems with L6.21 and start over with L6.22.


----------



## RoughDobermann

Update: Well, just got done with work and went downstairs. My 722 is showing the same issues. However, I pressed PIP and got partial video in the PIP box and full audio. However, it won't swap when I try it. And, I say partial video because the picture in the PIP box is not complete. Depending on the location of the PIP box, the picture displayed is either cut in half with a black bar, or partial obscured by blackness.

I disabled the inactivity setting to see if it only happens when the 722 goes nighty-night.


----------



## kstuart

bobl said:


> Add another bug to the list. When watching a program that is recording on a delayed basis the banner at the top of the screen shows the remaining time left until the recording is finished rather than the time left in the program. When the recording is finished the time remaining then corrects itself.


I think that is a much older situation - i.e. not introduced with L621.


----------



## kstuart

adk0212 said:


> Another new bug: When I delete a program from a group (old style groups based on program name) the program is still displayed in the group until I exit and re-enter the group. Selecting one of these "zombie" programs does nothing, although the episode info at the top of the screen still shows.


You can expand "delete a program" to "make any change" (including, for example, unprotecting). All the things displayed in that screen do not change until you exit and then re-enter.


----------



## Henry

tnsprin said:


> Some initial receivers got it by zip code.
> 
> I believe it is now going out by serial number ranges. It has reached my oldest receiver earlier this week but hasn't reached my next one in the 8072xxxx range.


Thanks, _tnsprin._ I'm curious to see if this is a repeat of the last release. That one didn't go over well and they had to interrupt it to do some fixes ... from that we got L6.18. It's just a vibe, but I'm thinking L6.21 isn't fairing well.

I wish them well.


----------



## bobl

kstuart said:


> I think that is a much older situation - i.e. not introduced with L621.


I don't believe the problem with the time remaining while watching a recording in progress on a delayed basis existed before L621. I watch shows like this all the time and don't recall seeing this at all until L621 was released. Anyone else see this problem before L621?


----------



## BobaBird

Those of you who had a 921 will recognize this one. To those who had banished it from their consciousness, I apologize.

This morning I turned on the TV, and the screen "saver" was showing the message "Press INFO to go to My Recordings." It did so, but the picture on the menu, rather than being a thumbnail of the tuned OTA channel, was instead a window showing the upper right corner of the full screen picture that was covered by the DVR screen.


----------



## spawnman

so I got the l6.21 upgrade last week. Woke up Wed morning 622 receiver was running hard. screen showed the 061 warning, boot recovery crap. Left it running all day like that came home at 5:30, still doing same thing. Unplugged waited, fixed. Woke up Thur morning same thing. Unplugged in the morning this time, waited plugged in fixed. Called dish on Friday, after threatening to leave, have new 722 coming Thursday. Still have 061 warning crap error every morning so far. 

I sure hope the 722 is better. First when I called Dish they wouldn't do a replacement since it was working when I called. Told them wait until the next morning and it won't be. Didn't seem to make a difference until you threaten them. Got a pretty good deal, they wanted $125 fo the "upgrade" and 2 year commitment. Told them stick the $125 and I will do the 2 year commitment. They said ok, plus since now I'm a "new" subscriber, I get $10 off per month for a year!!

I had the same 061 warning issue a few upgrade ago, would have to find the old post then. Not sure what fixed it then, but just started working. I'm so tired of the crappy service from Dish!! But it's the best deal in town for me.

Spawnman


----------



## dmspen

Maybe I'm just not with it, but has the info screen always shown which satellite the channel is coming from?

Is that new with L6.21?


----------



## Bradtothebone

dmspen said:


> Maybe I'm just not with it, but has the info screen always shown which satellite the channel is coming from?
> 
> Is that new with L6.21?


Nope, we've had that for awhile - at least since L618, maybe longer.


----------



## lujan

Mine doesn't show the satellite on all stations. For example, when I look at all the HBO stations (starting with 9456), there is no satellite information. I'm still on L618 and haven't gotten the update yet. Not sure I want it?


----------



## BobaBird

BobaBird said:


> This morning I turned on the TV, and the screen "saver" was showing the message "Press INFO to go to My Recordings." It did so, but the picture on the menu, rather than being a thumbnail of the tuned OTA channel, was instead a window showing the upper right corner of the full screen picture that was covered by the DVR screen.


Same thing this morning, this time on satellite channel 9422.


----------



## HobbyTalk

lujan said:


> Mine doesn't show the satellite on all stations. For example, when I look at all the HBO stations (starting with 9456), there is no satellite information. I'm still on L618 and haven't gotten the update yet. Not sure I want it?


Mine shows the sat. info on channel 9456. I have a 622 on L618


----------



## 4bama

HobbyTalk said:


> Mine shows the sat. info on channel 9456. I have a 622 on L618


I have not paid much attention to 621, everything works good here, but I remember a long time ago someone pointed out that if you push the info button twice the screen will show which satellite you're receiving that channel from..don't remember which version of firmware introduced that feature, but it's been available for a long time...


----------



## tigrbuzz

tigrbuzz said:


> assuming based on, drum roll please.......
> 
> dreaded reboot problem appeared yesterday.
> 
> About every 45 minutes to 2 hours yesterday it ran the reboot cycle and would come back ok.
> 
> Finally, last night sometime after 9, just died and wouldn't reboot. Fan just running - TV1 light on. After about 3 to 5 minutes all the front lights would flicker and then it would go back to TV1 light only.
> 
> I unplugged the unit and went to bed. Got up this morning, plugged it in, and it came back on. I haven't had a reboot cycle. Yet.
> 
> Here is hoping it doesn't happen to you.
> 
> This is only the 2nd problem in 2 1/2 years with the 622. About 8 months ago the HDMI port went bad. My current 622 is a refurb that old.


Good news - wanted to post a follow up - after unplugging the unit and going to bed that same night, plugging in and rebooting - I've had no issues at all. Well....with the reboot.

Now I am having constant problems with my Atlanta locals - spotbeam in and out constantly over the last 3 days. I'm going to search around the rest of th e forums and see what else comes up.

Wanted to be fair about the reboot problem now that its fixed.


----------



## lujan

HobbyTalk said:


> Mine shows the sat. info on channel 9456. I have a 622 on L618


That's strange?


----------



## tnsprin

L6.21 reached my second oldest 622 sometime overnight. So upto at least R008072xxxx for 622's.


----------



## Henry

Got L6.21 last night. Did a power-down re-boot as soon as I saw the new version listed (I hit _Menu_ twice).

No re-boot issues that I can see ... in fact, it seemed to re-boot a lot faster than before.

TV2 aspect ratio is squirrely when watching an HD station. Everything is letterboxed. I can change TV2's display properties to correct for this, but I'd have to do it each time I go from one aspect ratio to the next (from SD to HD and vice-versa). Changing the _Format_ function of the 622 is not a permanent solution.

I hesitate to navigate further into his release. I have a feeling I'm going to stumble onto more problems than I will solutions/enhancements.

_[Take a deep breath ... go!]_


----------



## kstuart

HDG said:


> TV2 aspect ratio is squirrely when watching an HD station. Everything is letterboxed. I can change TV2's display properties to correct for this, but I'd have to do it each time I go from one aspect ratio to the next (from SD to HD and vice-versa). Changing the _Format_ function of the 622 is not a permanent solution.


Unless I am missing something, the TV2 aspect ratio is now correct for the first time ever.
A 16x9 image on a 4x3 TV should be letterboxed.


----------



## TulsaOK

kstuart said:


> Unless I am missing something, the TV2 aspect ratio is now correct for the first time ever.
> A 16x9 image on a 4x3 TV should be letterboxed.


After the nightly reboot, the "Normal" aspect ratio is actually "Stretch". PiP'ing will fix it until the next reboot.


----------



## HobbyTalk

lujan said:


> That's strange?


I was replying to the following (as quoted in my post)



lujan said:


> Mine doesn't show the satellite on all stations. For example, when I look at all the HBO stations (starting with 9456), there is no satellite information. I'm still on L618 and haven't gotten the update yet. Not sure I want it?


----------



## Gene Steinberg

The update came last night (Monday). No anomalies yet, but the new features are, by and large, not very interesting to us.

I'll report if we see any problems.

Peace,
Gene


----------



## Henry

kstuart said:


> Unless I am missing something, the TV2 aspect ratio is now correct for the first time ever.
> A 16x9 image on a 4x3 TV should be letterboxed.


Thanks, _k_ ... The kicker of course is that my TV2 is a 16x9-capable HDTV now showing HD in letterbox where before it used to fill the screen (albeit SD).

But I'll try Kent's suggestion and Pip something.


----------



## Ray_Schwarz

One of the releases a year or so back "leveled" the dolby and non-dolby volume levels.

With L6.21, if I am watching a dolby program and exit to a non-dolby (ex: audio channel)
the sound volume goes way up.

Ray Schwarz


----------



## lujan

HobbyTalk said:


> I was replying to the following (as quoted in my post)


I know, why would you have the satellite information and I don't and we both have the 622 with L6.18?


----------



## tnsprin

Ray_Schwarz said:


> One of the releases a year or so back "leveled" the dolby and non-dolby volume levels.
> 
> With L6.21, if I am watching a dolby program and exit to a non-dolby (ex: audio channel)
> the sound volume goes way up.
> 
> Ray Schwarz


As far as I can tell the previous change never happened. Non-dolby for me has always been too loud.


----------



## phrelin

tnsprin said:


> Ray_Schwarz said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the releases a year or so back "leveled" the dolby and non-dolby volume levels.
> 
> With L6.21, if I am watching a dolby program and exit to a non-dolby (ex: audio channel)
> the sound volume goes way up.
> 
> Ray Schwarz
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell the previous change never happened. Non-dolby for me has always been too loud.
Click to expand...

Same for my 722 and I am in the Bay Area DMA.


----------



## HobbyTalk

lujan said:


> I know, why would you have the satellite information and I don't and we both have the 622 with L6.18?


Press info twice when on a station... it doesn't show the sat. info on the left side of the info box?


----------



## kstuart

HDG said:


> Thanks, _k_ ... The kicker of course is that my TV2 is a 16x9-capable HDTV now showing HD in letterbox where before it used to fill the screen (albeit SD).


Ah, I see...
... previously the TV2 output was wrong for 4x3 screens and right for 16x9 screens, and now it is right for 4x3 screens and wrong for 16x9 screens.

Considering that probably 90% of TV2 sets are 4x3 screens, then this is an improvement overall.

But, of course, best would be to have a setting in the menus for TV2 aspect ratio...


----------



## milacqua

kstuart said:


> Ah, I see...
> ... previously the TV2 output was wrong for 4x3 screens and right for 16x9 screens, and now it is right for 4x3 screens and wrong for 16x9 screens.
> 
> Considering that probably 90% of TV2 sets are 4x3 screens, then this is an improvement overall.
> 
> But, of course, best would be to have a setting in the menus for TV2 aspect ratio...


Exactly. I had the fouled up aspect ratios as well but fixed them by changing aspect ratio back and forth in the menu. I want to know why every time I get an update something goes wrong? Why can't I stay with what I have if I'm happy? I want to block every additional update that comes down but I don't know how. Will it block additional updates if I unplug the 622 every night and then plug it back in the morning? Will this screw up my guide (I don't get locals through Dish)?


----------



## FarmerBob

milacqua said:


> Exactly. I had the fouled up aspect ratios as well but fixed them by changing aspect ratio back and forth in the menu. I want to know why every time I get an update something goes wrong? Why can't I stay with what I have if I'm happy? I want to block every additional update that comes down but I don't know how. Will it block additional updates if I unplug the 622 every night and then plug it back in the morning? Will this screw up my guide (I don't get locals through Dish)?


In the hayday of the 508 I had similar problems and wanted to stay where I was in updates, because back then they were really bed at times. You were able to manually stop upgrades in the preferences. When I got our first 625 the first option I looked for was to stop auto-updating and it was no where to be found. I realized I would have to deal with it now and was not happy. The only thing that you can do is change the default time that your box goes out and get the EPG, or so they say (I have an inquiry in as to what happens during that update process), as I have also seen with the 722.

Just got a reply from DISH:

. . . (sucking up omitted) . . . _"Yes, software updates will be downloaded during the daily update as well as any time the receiver is powered off for an extended time."_


----------



## TulsaOK

milacqua said:


> I want to know why every time I get an update something goes wrong.


Yeah, me too.


----------



## spawnman

spawnman said:


> so I got the l6.21 upgrade last week. Woke up Wed morning 622 receiver was running hard. screen showed the 061 warning, boot recovery crap. Left it running all day like that came home at 5:30, still doing same thing. Unplugged waited, fixed. Woke up Thur morning same thing. Unplugged in the morning this time, waited plugged in fixed. Called dish on Friday, after threatening to leave, have new 722 coming Thursday. Still have 061 warning crap error every morning so far.
> 
> I sure hope the 722 is better. First when I called Dish they wouldn't do a replacement since it was working when I called. Told them wait until the next morning and it won't be. Didn't seem to make a difference until you threaten them. Got a pretty good deal, they wanted $125 fo the "upgrade" and 2 year commitment. Told them stick the $125 and I will do the 2 year commitment. They said ok, plus since now I'm a "new" subscriber, I get $10 off per month for a year!!
> 
> I had the same 061 warning issue a few upgrade ago, would have to find the old post then. Not sure what fixed it then, but just started working. I'm so tired of the crappy service from Dish!! But it's the best deal in town for me.
> 
> Spawnman


Well the new 722 hopefully will be here tomorrow. I continue to have the same issues every morning. Yesterday I cam home with the 016 warning, wife says it's been on that all afternoon.

Noticed yesterday that I now have L6.18 software! Not sure when it went back to 6.18 from 6.21 but weird that even with 6.18 I'm still seeing the same issues.


----------



## moman19

HobbyTalk said:


> Press info twice when on a station... it doesn't show the sat. info on the left side of the info box?


Not sure if this was mentioned: You can only view the sat info when watching a LIVE event. You will not see the sat number by pressing the INFO button when viewing a recorded event, a time-delayed event or (obviously) an OTA event.


----------



## olguy

Ray_Schwarz said:


> One of the releases a year or so back "leveled" the dolby and non-dolby volume levels.
> 
> With L6.21, if I am watching a dolby program and exit to a non-dolby (ex: audio channel)
> the sound volume goes way up.
> 
> Ray Schwarz


That happens on my 622 with 6.18.


----------



## lujan

HobbyTalk said:


> Press info twice when on a station... it doesn't show the sat. info on the left side of the info box?


Sorry, I was only pressing the "Info" button once.


----------



## TulsaOK

moman19 said:


> You will not see the sat number by pressing the INFO button when viewing a recorded event, a time-delayed event or (obviously) an OTA event.


Even a few seconds delay will not show the satellite number. 
Also, unless you press INFO twice, it's very difficult to pick up the number.


----------



## Henry

Thanks, guys for making sense out of this. I've been able to confirm the following with L6.21:

1. Sub-groups function does not migrate to EHD - CONFIRMED
2. Grouped items that are deleted remain listed until you refresh the screen: CONFIRMED
3. Hitting the PiP button three times (toggleing through the PiP sequence) resets to TV2 aspect ratio until next reboot: CONFIRMED (thanks, Kent )
4. Only new recordings (post L6.21) are eligible for sub-grouping: CONFIRMED


----------



## Michael P

4bama said:


> I have not paid much attention to 621, everything works good here, but I remember a long time ago someone pointed out that if you push the info button twice the screen will show which satellite you're receiving that channel from..don't remember which version of firmware introduced that feature, but it's been available for a long time...


Yes, pushing info twice will give you the satellite location if you are viewing live TV only! If you are in trick-play mode or watching a recording you will not see the satellite location.


----------



## TulsaOK

HDG said:


> 4. Only new recordings (post L6.21) are eligible for sub-grouping: CONFIRMED


I'm not sure I understand this one. I have recordings that I made months ago that I can add to a group. I may be misunderstanding what you mean.


----------



## Ron Barry

HDG said:


> Thanks, guys for making sense out of this. I've been able to confirm the following with L6.21:
> 
> 1. Sub-groups function does not migrate to EHD - CONFIRMED
> 2. Grouped items that are deleted remain listed until you refresh the screen: CONFIRMED
> 3. Hitting the PiP button three times (toggleing through the PiP sequence) resets to TV2 aspect ratio until next reboot: CONFIRMED (thanks, Kent )
> 4. Only new recordings (post L6.21) are eligible for sub-grouping: CONFIRMED


Thanks HDG for the post. I will add these to the top of the thread. However, I am with Kent on #4. I have had no problem moving recorded shows into my custom Groups.


----------



## tnsprin

spawnman said:


> Well the new 722 hopefully will be here tomorrow. I continue to have the same issues every morning. Yesterday I cam home with the 016 warning, wife says it's been on that all afternoon.
> 
> Noticed yesterday that I now have L6.18 software! Not sure when it went back to 6.18 from 6.21 but weird that even with 6.18 I'm still seeing the same issues.


Pretty sure the only reason you would be back on 6.18 is if the receiver detected a faulty install and rolled it back to the last good install. Normally it would than try and download L6.21 again, assuming it still is marked for your receiver.

We haven't been reguarly seeing anyone post the download target info recently but initially someone posted it as targeting all machines in specific zip codes, but later it went to specific ranges of serial numbers and all zipcodes.


----------



## TulsaOK

Michael P said:


> Yes, pushing info twice will give you the satellite location if you are viewing live TV only!


Anybody see the logic in that? 
Or why you have to press INFO twice to see it at all?


----------



## Henry

Ron Barry said:


> Thanks HDG for the post. I will add these to the top of the thread. However, I am with Kent on #4. I have had no problem moving recorded shows into my custom Groups.


You can take #4 out or change its description if you'd like. I only took it as far as to notice that only newly recorded programs gave me the option to sub-group. I didn't try to create a sub-group per-se, so that might be what I'm missing.

Maybe it means that you just can't "create" a sub-group using an existing recording made prior to L6.21? I'm not sure ... didn't go that far because folks here were reporting issues with the sub-group function in general. I figured, if I don't create one, I won't miss it if it leaves.


----------



## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> Anybody see the logic in that?
> Or why you have to press INFO twice to see it at all?


My 622 worked that way on L6.18: _Info_ twice to see the bird #.

Never heard of a "_trick-play mode"_, I'm afraid. Is that D*-speak?


----------



## RoughDobermann

Update: well, it appears that my 722 needed a check switch. It has not shown the audio and video issues I described earlier since I performed the check.

I still hate firmware, however.


----------



## Gene Steinberg

As I said, I got the update earlier this week. We have the VIP-722 DVR hooked up to a single Panasonic 50-inch plasma set, without a second TV connection. I observed no anomalies after the update. Everything seemed to work before the update, at least the functions we use, and I observed no change in performance after the update. The new features do not really apply to our needs, though.

Peace,
Gene


----------



## Henry

Ron Barry said:


> Thanks HDG for the post. I will add these to the top of the thread. However, I am with Kent on #4. I have had no problem moving recorded shows into my custom Groups.


Please scratch #4. I was wrong on that. I got confused with the main menu (recordings) view and the select (individual program) view. The sidebar menu changes between the two. Sorry.


----------



## dennispap

Ray_Schwarz said:


> One of the releases a year or so back "leveled" the dolby and non-dolby volume levels.
> 
> With L6.21, if I am watching a dolby program and exit to a non-dolby (ex: audio channel)
> the sound volume goes way up.
> 
> Ray Schwarz





tnsprin said:


> As far as I can tell the previous change never happened. Non-dolby for me has always been too loud.





phrelin said:


> Same for my 722 and I am in the Bay Area DMA.


Same for my 722 and i am in the New Orleans dma


----------



## Ron Barry

HDG said:


> Please scratch #4. I was wrong on that. I got confused with the main menu (recordings) view and the select (individual program) view. The sidebar menu changes between the two. Sorry.


Scratched.... We all get confused but great feedback even with the confusion.

On that note... From the people that have used the My Groups feature. Are people finding them useful? I know people would like to see them added to the EHD and perhaps this is a phased feature and we will see it in the future but curious if people are finding them as useful as I am. Yes there is a rather nasty bug with them, but thank goodness there is also a workaround.


----------



## Henry

Ron Barry said:


> Scratched.... We all get confused but great feedback even with the confusion.
> 
> On that note... From the people that have used the My Groups feature. Are people finding them useful? I know people would like to see them added to the EHD and perhaps this is a phased feature and we will see it in the future but curious if people are finding them as useful as I am. Yes there is a rather nasty bug with them, but thank goodness there is also a workaround.


Thanks, Ron.

I did create two test sub-folders and populated them (easy process). Within a few minutes I ran smack into that nasty bug and my 622 rebooted. I know some of you might overlook that, but to me, it's a show stopper.

While I was populating the sub-folders, I noticed a nice feature in that although you have to add each _previously_-_foldered_ program to the sub-folder individually, they all regrouped themselves nicely in the sub-folder.

I couldn't live with that bug so I deleted both sub-folders _(nothing was lost)._ The programs that populated the two sub-folders reverted back to the main list unaffected. I think I'll wait until they clear that bug.

BTW, what is the workaround? My 622 didn't give me a chance to recover when I selected the sub-group while playing back a program within it. It just locked and "re-loaded".

I think overall it will be a popular feature. I loved just the idea, so if and when they fix it, I'll definitely use it.


----------



## olguy

Ron Barry said:


> Scratched.... We all get confused but great feedback even with the confusion.
> 
> On that note... From the people that have used the My Groups feature. Are people finding them useful? I know people would like to see them added to the EHD and perhaps this is a phased feature and we will see it in the future but curious if people are finding them as useful as I am. Yes there is a rather nasty bug with them, but thank goodness there is also a workaround.


I just got 6.21 this morning but I have set up several groups in anticipation of them being useful. The problem is deciding if Castle is a drama, comedy or dramady.  And as you point out, they would be even more useful on the EHD. And this nasty bug you refer to is???


----------



## Henry

olguy said:


> I just got 6.21 this morning but I have set up several groups in anticipation of them being useful. The problem is deciding if Castle is a drama, comedy or dramady.  And as you point out, they would be even more useful on the EHD. *And this nasty bug you refer to is??*?


Don't know how many bugs there are, _olguy_, but if you play back a program from your sub-group and then try to access that sub-group at the same time, everything stops on a dime until your reciever reboots.


----------



## TulsaOK

HDG said:


> Don't know how many bugs there are, _olguy_, but if you play back a program from your sub-group and then try to access that sub-group at the same time, everything stops on a dime until your reciever reboots.


My 722 does not exhibit this behavior. I have two movies in a group. I start one movie playing. Then I select the same group and start the other movie while the first movie is playing. No problem. Is that where the reboot happens? Just making sure I'm understanding the steps.


----------



## Ron Barry

Yep that is the one but I think it is that you it will reboot if you try to entry the group while there is a show being recorded that is in the group. Perhaps there is another way to hit this bug. I have not tried playing back a show in a group then accessing the group so that might be another way to hit the issue but I hit it when I tried to access the group while a show was being recorded whose timer was set up to put it into the group I was attempting to access. 

The work around I speak of is that if you want to access a show that is recorded and it is in a custom group, toggle to group by title and you can then access without it rebooting. You can then toggle back to MyGroups. The thing I really like about this feature is that it is a more of a filtering then actually folder management so you can quickly toggle between the groupings. I also like the fact that when you are set to MyGroups and you have multiples of the same titles in your custom group it will group them by title. They could have gone either way on this feature and I am glad they went that way. Definitely makes it more useful.


----------



## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> My 722 does not exhibit this behavior. I have two movies in a group. I start one movie playing. Then I select the same group and start the other movie while the first movie is playing. No problem. Is that where the reboot happens? Just making sure I'm understanding the steps.


 I understand them to be a Group (introduced _before_ L6.21) and a Sub-group (added by L6.21).

My comments were regarding the latter of the two - the Sub-group. My 622 locked up while I watched a program I had recently added to a Test sub-group and simultaneously tried to re-access the Test sub-group while still in playback mode.

Clear as mud, right? :nono2:


----------



## TulsaOK

HDG said:


> I understand them to be a Group (introduced _before_ L6.21) and a Sub-group (added by L6.21).
> 
> My comments were regarding the latter of the two - the Sub-group. My 622 locked up while I watched a program I had recently added to a Test sub-group and simultaneously tried to re-access the Test sub-group while still in playback mode.
> 
> Clear as mud, right? :nono2:


OK, I give up. I assigned a program that was being recorded to a group. Then I accessed that group. No problem. I am definitely missing something here and I hate to come off so dense. I'm also not sure I understand the distinction of Group and Sub-Group. The only way I was able to assign a recording program to a group was to let it start recording then assign it. Is that right? I hate to clog up this thread; maybe I should PM you?


----------



## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> OK, I give up. I assigned a program that was being recorded to a group. Then I accessed that group. No problem. I am definitely missing something here and I hate to come off so dense. I'm also not sure I understand the distinction of Group and Sub-Group. The only way I was able to assign a recording program to a group was to let it start recording then assign it. Is that right? I hate to clog up this thread; maybe I should PM you?


Maybe you should ... but since Group came first in time, it makes more sense to me to call MyGroups a sub-group.

Anyway, lets try that again, shall we?...

_



I understand them to be a Group (introduced before L6.21) and a MyGroup (added by L6.21).

My comments were regarding the latter of the two - MyGroup. My 622 locked up while I watched a program I had recently added to a MyGroup called "Test" and simultaneously tried to re-access the MyGroup called "Test" while still in playback mode.

Click to expand...

Better? _


----------



## Ron Barry

Kent Taylor said:


> OK, I give up. I assigned a program that was being recorded to a group. Then I accessed that group. No problem. I am definitely missing something here and I hate to come off so dense. I'm also not sure I understand the distinction of Group and Sub-Group. The only way I was able to assign a recording program to a group was to let it start recording then assign it. Is that right? I hate to clog up this thread; maybe I should PM you?


I believe you can also assign a timer to a group and the timer adds all recordings to that group. This is where I ran into the lockup.


----------



## TulsaOK

HDG said:


> Maybe you should ... but since Group came first in time, it makes more sense to me to call MyGroups a sub-group.
> 
> Anyway, lets try that again, shall we?...
> 
> _
> 
> Better? _


When you start using your own terminology for groups and sub-groups, expect some confusion. Sorry if I offended you.


----------



## TulsaOK

Ron Barry said:


> I believe you can also assign a timer to a group and the timer adds all recordings to that group. This is where I ran into the lockup.


I assigned the timer to a group. Once the timer fired I accessed the GROUP! Apparently, my 722 does not have this problem. 
Also, it seems that when setting up a timer the option to assign it to a group isn't available. I had to edit the timer to see that option.


----------



## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> When you start using your own terminology for groups and sub-groups, expect some confusion. Sorry if I offended you.


No offense.

I have to translate some of their terms so they make sense to me. Guess I got carried away.

Anyway, did you get the gist of my post?


----------



## mscroggi

dmspen said:


> I hate the scrolling. When designing GUIs, button efficiency is a must. Maybe they should shrink the buttons to make them all fit.:nono2:


I dont mind the scrolling at all.. It ensures the buttons are in a usable size for all.. BUT the scrolling menu should wrap around. All of the menus .. *ALL* of the menus, have a wrap around.. Now we have the new menus that behave differently. I hope they fix this.


----------



## mscroggi

Giljorak said:


> I was able to confirm my original findings. If you try to access a Group that has an active recording being saved to it the system will lock up and reboot. You will not be shown the contents of the selected Group. The highlighted selection bar will disappear then after 5-10 seconds it will lock up and reboot. After the reboot the system will resume the recording.
> 
> You can access other groups or recordings not in a group just fine during the above scenario.
> 
> So I guess for now I'll have Groups but not assign the timers to a group until it is done recording. :


I had this exact failure.. other than that the update has been smooth.. I cannot figure out the playlist thing though.. It seems to just bounce me out to the live feed.


----------



## MrC

We love the groups, and use them all the time. My wife has her programs, and I have mine. This keeps the listings nice and easy to browse. Also, if one of us watches a program we that we feel the other might like to see, we can move it into the other's group. I imagine groups would be even more useful in family situations.

The implementation could be better, but it is sufficient.

When Dish first introduced its UI, it was pretty good for the time, and certainly very easy to use. Rudimentary, but easy (and no junk). However, over time, UIs for set top boxes / DVRs have become much richer and more enjoyable to use. I hope someday (soon) Dish tries to raise the bar. But unless the competition does likewise, there may be no financial incentive to do anything in this space. Hence, we'll have to live with the dual interfaces (int. HD vs. ext. HD) and the mind-numbingly excessive, carpal-tunnel inducing dozens of remote key pressing to accomplish the most trivial of tasks.


----------



## mscroggi

Ron Barry said:


> Thanks HDG for the post. I will add these to the top of the thread. However, I am with Kent on #4. I have had no problem moving recorded shows into my custom Groups.


After getting the update, I went through all my timers and set custom groups for them.. Then I went through all the recorded items in my dvr and set them to the custom groups as well.. nice lean menu system now.. I was successful in recording to the custom groups. The only issue I had was where I tried to enter a group that had an active recording going on.. the box crashed.. (this item was already reported on this thread)


----------



## Henry

mscroggi said:


> I had this exact failure.. other than that the update has been smooth.. I cannot figure out the playlist thing though.. It seems to just bounce me out to the live feed.


Me too, but in my case it was during playback. The Playlist looks like something they have in store for us down the line, but someone forgot to gray it out.


----------



## mscroggi

MrC said:


> Hence, we'll have to live with the dual interfaces (int. HD vs. ext. HD) and the mind-numbingly excessive, carpal-tunnel inducing dozens of remote key pressing to accomplish the most trivial of tasks.


Why does everyone have issues with having the external HD separate from the internal one? I am serious in my question.. I personally have no problem at all with being able to dictate what what program is where.. The drive is portable and I have moved it to other receivers in the past.. When they get the sharing over LAN feature implemented, the capability to move the drive around will be less necessary.. I do however have a couple of UI issues with the handling of the EHD. sorting.. If the recording list isnt sorted the way you want it before entering the EHD, you have to return, sort the list and enter the EHD drive again.. HOW HARD CAN IT BE to allow dynamic sorting of the EHD list like they do with the internal drive.. I have been puzzled for a long time about that one.. The only other issue I have over the handling of the EHD is to allow specifying where the recording should go when creating a timer. At least this feature would require some UI adjustments to allow for the feature, the sorting issue would take no UI enhancements at all..


----------



## Henry

mscroggi said:


> Why does everyone have issues with having the external HD separate from the internal one? I am serious in my question.. I personally have no problem at all with being able to dictate what what program is where.. The drive is portable and I have moved it to other receivers in the past.. When they get the sharing over LAN feature implemented, the capability to move the drive around will be less necessary.. I do however have a couple of UI issues with the handling of the EHD. sorting.. If the recording list isnt sorted the way you want it before entering the EHD, you have to return, sort the list and enter the EHD drive again.. HOW HARD CAN IT BE to allow dynamic sorting of the EHD list like they do with the internal drive.. I have been puzzled for a long time about that one.. The only other issue I have over the handling of the EHD is to allow specifying where the recording should go when creating a timer. At least this feature would require some UI adjustments to allow for the feature, the sorting issue would take no UI enhancements at all..


My guess is that many of the limitations we have to live with are not tied to technical knowledge. When I see a simple function that is not provided, I think in terms of "they can't legally provide it".


----------



## MrC

mscroggi said:


> Why does everyone have issues with having the external HD separate from the internal one? I am serious in my question.. I personally have no problem at all with being able to dictate what what program is where.. The drive is portable and I have moved it to other receivers in the past.. When they get the sharing over LAN feature implemented, the capability to move the drive around will be less necessary.. I do however have a couple of UI issues with the handling of the EHD. sorting.. If the recording list isnt sorted the way you want it before entering the EHD, you have to return, sort the list and enter the EHD drive again.. HOW HARD CAN IT BE to allow dynamic sorting of the EHD list like they do with the internal drive.. I have been puzzled for a long time about that one.. The only other issue I have over the handling of the EHD is to allow specifying where the recording should go when creating a timer. At least this feature would require some UI adjustments to allow for the feature, the sorting issue would take no UI enhancements at all..


Not separate, as in merge the programs into one space (although, that would be nice too, and just show where each program is stored), but, you've partly answer your own question.

Some Examples:

- If I have a program tagged for a Group on the main unit, it should appear under the same group when I move it to the HD.

- After completing the viewing of program on the EHD, why is there no Delete button available immediately like on the main system? Why do I have to Cancel out of the dialog, then go navigating to My Media, press loads of key presses to get back to the program I just completed watching (if I remember which one it was), select it, and then select Delete? When you have a hundred or more episodes, this is *ridiculous*, especially given that the oldest episodes (which are likely the ones we'll watch first) are at the *bottom* of a long list!

- There should be a Move to EHD and Move to Main HD from the program's Info page. The Manage Media (or whatever it is called) is silly.

The problem is that Dish' UI is geared towards the lowest common denominator TV (eg. 18" to 20" units) and the older generation so as to be accessible, so buttons are enormous and there is not enough room to accommodate more buttons. They have now tried the scrolling list of buttons - some people don't like that. There is not enough room for higher resolution graphics. Compare the various interfaces of various PVR/DVR packages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_PVR_software_packages

and you'll get a sense of just how clumsy Dish's interface is.


----------



## FarmerBob

BobaBird said:


> Has anyone tried backing up timers and settings to their 20.x remote?


I have an inquiry into DISH about this. I have tried a couple of times and it starts up, starts uploading and then I get an error.

Have yet to hear back from DISH after they asked for receiver details. Have long since replied with the info.


----------



## olguy

Kent Taylor said:


> I assigned the timer to a group. Once the timer fired I accessed the GROUP! Apparently, my 722 does not have this problem.
> Also, it seems that when setting up a timer the option to assign it to a group isn't available. I had to edit the timer to see that option.


Before you click Create Timer go down a couple of buttons and click Options. You can then assign that timer to one of your Mygroups or whatever Dish calls 'em.


----------



## DJ Lon

Ray_Schwarz said:


> One of the releases a year or so back "leveled" the dolby and non-dolby volume levels.
> 
> With L6.21, if I am watching a dolby program and exit to a non-dolby (ex: audio channel)
> the sound volume goes way up.


I've noticed with L621 that my SD & HD channels from TV1 via HDMI have leveled off again like it used to be. Can't remember the thread but I wrote to Dish about the volume difference a while back [after it changed] and I posted the response they sent me stating they were aware of the problem and were working on a fix.

On another note TV2 audio doesn't "pop" as much as it did before, especially with HD channels.


----------



## mscroggi

MrC said:


> Not separate, as in merge the programs into one space (although, that would be nice too, and just show where each program is stored), but, you've partly answer your own question.
> 
> Some Examples:
> 
> - If I have a program tagged for a Group on the main unit, it should appear under the same group when I move it to the HD.
> 
> - After completing the viewing of program on the EHD, why is there no Delete button available immediately like on the main system? Why do I have to Cancel out of the dialog, then go navigating to My Media, press loads of key presses to get back to the program I just completed watching (if I remember which one it was), select it, and then select Delete? When you have a hundred or more episodes, this is *ridiculous*, especially given that the oldest episodes (which are likely the ones we'll watch first) are at the *bottom* of a long list!
> 
> - There should be a Move to EHD and Move to Main HD from the program's Info page. The Manage Media (or whatever it is called) is silly.
> 
> The problem is that Dish' UI is geared towards the lowest common denominator TV (eg. 18" to 20" units) and the older generation so as to be accessible, so buttons are enormous and there is not enough room to accommodate more buttons. They have now tried the scrolling list of buttons - some people don't like that. There is not enough room for higher resolution graphics. Compare the various interfaces of various PVR/DVR packages:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_PVR_software_packages
> 
> and you'll get a sense of just how clumsy Dish's interface is.


I was not arguing that there arent things to improve in the UI.. I am a software developer by trade and spend a great deal of my time working on usability issues.. I agree with all your listed points except the complaint about the size of the buttons.. I have no problems with that. (Although, I think there is a flaw when the extended guides are used (like 'Extended - Partial guide with video'). The columns are narrow to get in 3 hours of guide data.. but the current half hour slice is so narrow, you will get a max of two words to identify the program. It would be nice if the current time slice was a double wide column to get more info on the screen at once..) I can tell you this, after spending a week at my Moms house with COX HD cable, things could be much much worse.. OMG...

I was just asking why I see so many complaints that the EHD isnt seamlessy integrated into the storage pool..


----------



## Ron Barry

Ok folks.. Topics regarding Tivo/Echostar are off-topic and should only be discussed in the current thread dedicated to this issue. If you want to discuss point around this topic please use the current Tivo vs. Echostar thread. You could also do a search on Tivo and Echostar and get a number of previous threads that have hashed and re-hashed this topic to death. I will be going through this thread and deleting all references to this topic to avoid splintering this thread.

I apologize for any posts I deleted or removals of comments I made, but given we had had a couple I felt it was time to clean those up and direct folks to the appropriate thread. We are trying to keep that discussion in on thread to avoid sidetracking other threads as history has shown it has a tendency to do.

So if you are interested in this topic. Please use the thread below to discuss the issue.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=159128

If you have a question regarding this note, feel free to PM me with your questions. Thanks in advance for everyone's cooperation.


----------



## TulsaOK

olguy said:


> Before you click Create Timer go down a couple of buttons and click Options. You can then assign that timer to one of your Mygroups or whatever Dish calls 'em.


Ah, missed that. Thanks.


----------



## TheGrove

I haven't noticed it mentioned, it appears they have fixed the selection bug in the edit window. Now when you select a recording you are automatically moved to the next recording - like it was before 6.18 (I believe that is where it broke).


----------



## JS_racer

MrC said:


> - After completing the viewing of program on the EHD, why is there no Delete button available immediately like on the main system? Why do I have to Cancel out of the dialog, then go navigating to My Media, press loads of key presses to get back to the program I just completed watching (if I remember which one it was), select it, and then select Delete? When you have a hundred or more episodes, this is *ridiculous*, especially given that the oldest episodes (which are likely the ones we'll watch first) are at the *bottom* of a long list!


Thought it was just me, or i was missing something. PITA without the delete button.


----------



## dmspen

I have one small nit...

When a selection was highlighted in my recordings list, a simple 'arrow right' use to highlight 'DONE'. Now it goes to 'Edit'. 

I know I should probably use the 'View TV' key, but I was used to 'DONEing/Cancel'ing' my way out.


----------



## spawnman

Well got the new 722K receiver yesterday, all went well but quickly found out that the 722K doesn't include an OTA receiver standard!! WTF!!! So after calling techsupport and explaining the issue to them twice! I have a module being sent to me free of charge. I already pay for the locals but like to be able to have the OTA signal incase I want to record more than one local station at the same time. I just couldn't believe it didn't come with it and that then they want to charge you for it!

Anyways, no reboots this morning, no 061 boot recovery, no 016 data being written blah blah blah. So now i'm happy again


----------



## mscroggi

tcooper185 said:


> I noticed that almost immediately, and hate it. This was the quickest way to delete a DVR'd event, and now deleting is cumbersome. Pain in the rear. I'd like to see the choices reordered to get rid of the 2nd page of menu choices.


I think they can do scrolling and wrapping both... the menu can scroll to uncover added menu items and still wrap around when the user moves past the end..


----------



## mscroggi

Both of our 622's got the 6.21 update a day ago.. After using it for a bit I have two big issues. - 

1. Entering a group that has an active recording causes a lockup and reboot. I had to turn off using 'My Groups' until this is fixed. I cant have my receiver locking up and rebooting all the time.. especially since the reboot happens when a recording is going on..

2. When the receiver came back from the reboot (any soft reboot), the display was totally out of whack. It looked like it was over-scanning. The info popup would be extending off the top of the screen. The channel numbers could not be seen in the guide as they were pushed off the left edge of the screen. I have seen posts about this kind of issue on the thread, but they were mostly about using the TV out . I am using the HDMI only. Hiting the star (*) button to cycle through the picture format selections doesnt help. A cold reboot does fix it, but I also discovered I could change the 16x9 tv preference to 4x3 and back to 16x9, things would be right again, at least until the next daily reboot.


----------



## wje

I've had it for a week or so now, I don't remember exactly when the update came down.
Two problems:

I've had the unit completely lose all satellites and not be able to reacquire any of them without a reboot (just cycles thru the sats, checking each transponder forever)

I encountered the (I think) delete-a-recording bug, but I haven't seen this behavior reported:
If I delete a recording, ALL the menu buttons blank out. There's no way to exit without canceling out.


----------



## ChuckA

spawnman said:


> Well got the new 722K receiver yesterday, all went well but quickly found out that the 722K doesn't include an OTA receiver standard!! WTF!!! So after calling techsupport and explaining the issue to them twice! I have a module being sent to me free of charge. I already pay for the locals but like to be able to have the OTA signal incase I want to record more than one local station at the same time. I just couldn't believe it didn't come with it and that then they want to charge you for it!


The module contains 2 OTA tuners so you will now be able to record 4 programs at once. Pretty cool thing if you ask me.


----------



## TulsaOK

TheGrove said:


> I haven't noticed it mentioned, it appears they have fixed the selection bug in the edit window. Now when you select a recording you are automatically moved to the next recording - like it was before 6.18 (I believe that is where it broke).


Nice catch. I hadn't noticed that yet but I was kind of PO'ed when they screwed it up. Thanks.


----------



## JmC

This seems to be a new behavior when using the Recall button on the remote. In the past the recalled channel was tuner specific. It no longer is, at least not while in single mode.

If I have changed the channel from A to B the recall button will switch the channel back to A.

Press the PIP Swap button to change tuner. Change the channel from C to D. The recall button will change the channel to C.

Press the PIP Swap button to switch back to the previous tuner. The recall button will change the channel to D.

Before L621 the last recall press would have changed the channel to B. And that’s the way I liked it.


----------



## TulsaOK

JmC said:


> This seems to be a new behavior when using the Recall button on the remote. In the past the recalled channel was tuner specific. It no longer is, at least not while in single mode.
> 
> If I have changed the channel from A to B the recall button will switch the channel back to A.
> 
> Press the PIP Swap button to change tuner. Change the channel from C to D. The recall button will change the channel to C.
> 
> Press the PIP Swap button to switch back to the previous tuner. The recall button will change the channel to D.
> 
> Before L621 the last recall press would have changed the channel to B. And that's the way I liked it.


Are any of those OTA channels?


----------



## ZBoomer

spawnman said:


> Well got the new 722K receiver yesterday, all went well but quickly found out that the 722K doesn't include an OTA receiver standard!! WTF!!! So after calling techsupport and explaining the issue to them twice! I have a module being sent to me free of charge. I already pay for the locals but like to be able to have the OTA signal incase I want to record more than one local station at the same time. I just couldn't believe it didn't come with it and that then they want to charge you for it!


Guess you didn't read this forum much.  The 722k has been talked about extensively here since before it even came out, and is *well *known the OTA module is optional. The plus is it's dual, so like someone said you get two OTA channels.


----------



## BobaBird

But the 722k is as OT to this thread as the removed TiVo discussion.


Ron Barry said:


> I also like the fact that when you are set to MyGroups and you have multiples of the same titles in your custom group it will group them by title.


That's exactly what I _don't_ like about it. I thought I was setting up one level of grouping (Mygroup filters) but instead got two (the filters I want plus the title grouping I only sometimes want).


----------



## Ron Barry

BobaBird is correct. 722K discussion is offtopic with this thread. Please take 722K discussions to another thread.

As to the choice on MyGroups.. Not surprised some people would want it the other way but I do think most would like it the way they did it. Sure they could of made it so you could do both. That would be ideal but I do think overall the right decision was made there short of adding a knob to toggle this functionality.


----------



## JmC

Kent Taylor said:


> Are any of those OTA channels?


None of those were OTA Channels.


----------



## Backup Brain

> From the people that have used the My Groups feature. Are people finding them useful? I know people would like to see them added to the EHD and perhaps this is a phased feature and we will see it in the future but curious if people are finding them as useful as I am.


In my home, the My Groups feature finally brings back important functionality that we had back with our ReplayTVs years ago (as Dish agonizingly seems to be doing, one feature at a time ). Specifically, when there's a show that me and my wife both want to see, I can watch it without her, then move it into her Group so that she knows that she can watch it and delete it. For example, I've moved the two episodes of _Nurse Jackie_ that's I've seen and she hasn't into her group. I also moved her unwatched episodes of _The Tudors_, a show I don't watch at all, into her Group.


----------



## TheGrove

JmC said:


> This seems to be a new behavior when using the Recall button on the remote. In the past the recalled channel was tuner specific. It no longer is, at least not while in single mode.
> 
> If I have changed the channel from A to B the recall button will switch the channel back to A.
> 
> Press the PIP Swap button to change tuner. Change the channel from C to D. The recall button will change the channel to C.
> 
> Press the PIP Swap button to switch back to the previous tuner. The recall button will change the channel to D.
> 
> Before L621 the last recall press would have changed the channel to B. And that's the way I liked it.


I confirmed the same behavior. That's a pain I used to on rare occasions juggle 4 shows at once.



Kent Taylor said:


> Nice catch. I hadn't noticed that yet but I was kind of PO'ed when they screwed it up. Thanks.


Thanks.


----------



## FarmerBob

I just went to set my first timer through search results since the L6.21 update on the Sci-Fi (soon to be "Sy-Fy" - what a joke) channel for a show that is on tonight and there is a conflict. So I did a search to see when else it was on. Did a search through the EPG and then I selected the program from search results that I wanted, tomorrow at 4, it was as if I was in the guide and selected a program that was playing now and it changes the channel to that station and nothing about a timer. Then when I selected the program from the EPG and since there was a conflict I got the resolution window and selected automatic resolution, but all it did was select the program that couldn't be recorded, with an "X" on it, and that's it. It did not select the program tomorrow that could be recorded like it normally has in the past. But when I set up a timer for the program that can be recorded the system shows my actions as if it were its own and that all is well. It's not. 

This is the first major hiccup that I have encountered, that I feel is a real big bug. I will be sending this to DISH to see what they have to say. Probably, a new box that will have the same problems. They already want to send a tech for the motion pixilation that I now get after the L6.21 update and all the over-the-net testing showed my box and system are in prefect condition. Then the tech tells me he has been sent on all kind of fruitless calls due to the software. It's a major waste of time, but then I get lovely parting gifts.

DISH Reply . . . 

I got two replies from two different Level 1 Outsourced Techs at DISH, both only offered instructions on how to set timers. Nothing was said about why I wrote.


----------



## softwiz

My dad just called me, said that his 16x9 picture is centered inside of his TV with black all around it. First thing I did was see if his 722 got 6.21 and sure enough it did.

I've tried everything to get the picture from the dish receiver to fill his screen like it did before. His TV is still on normal, the dish receiver is in normal but doesn't fill the screen anymore like it's scaled.

He's connected via HDMI. I've tried unplugging the power, tried changing the HDTV setup to 720p and then back to 1080i. Tried changing the aspect from 16x9 to 4x3 and back again. Nothing I've tried so far fixes this.

He does leave it in dual mode as he feeds a bedroom TV with this receiver.

Anyone else have any ideas on things to try to kick it out of this mode?


----------



## TulsaOK

softwiz said:


> My dad just called me, said that his 16x9 picture is centered inside of his TV with black all around it. First thing I did was see if his 722 got 6.21 and sure enough it did.
> 
> I've tried everything to get the picture from the dish receiver to fill his screen like it did before. His TV is still on normal, the dish receiver is in normal but doesn't fill the screen anymore like it's scaled.
> 
> He's connected via HDMI. I've tried unplugging the power, tried changing the HDTV setup to 720p and then back to 1080i. Tried changing the aspect from 16x9 to 4x3 and back again. Nothing I've tried so far fixes this.
> 
> He does leave it in dual mode as he feeds a bedroom TV with this receiver.
> 
> Anyone else have any ideas on things to try to kick it out of this mode?


Have you tried a power cord reset? Whenever I get an update I pull the plug for a few minutes. 
When you say Normal, can I assume that pressing the Format button and cycling though the aspects has been tried?


----------



## softwiz

Kent Taylor said:


> Have you tried a power cord reset? Whenever I get an update I pull the plug for a few minutes.
> When you say Normal, can I assume that pressing the Format button and cycling though the aspects has been tried?


Yep tried power cord. No go...

The TV has always been in "normal" mode which is no stretching of the picture.

Yes we tried toggling through the Dish Receivers stretch modes using the Format button. Only thing it did was change the scaled down picture.

I'm heading over to his place now to try some things...


----------



## Gene Steinberg

Did you call Dish and ask for help? That would be the most logical thing to do if nothing else works.

Pace,
Gene


----------



## barryaz1

I've had 6.21 for several days now and immediately moved "my" shows into a new Group called "Barry." Just decided that I'd rather see the titles, went to Edit Groups, Delete Group (made me nervous until I saw the Groups and Events Delete Option) and did just the Delete Group. All the shows reappeared, but with some wierdness - a new "Group" Generation Kills appeared as a grey folder showing 5 programs (which is what I had before), but in it was one Generation Kills and a sub Folder containing 3 24's that were now missing from my regular 24 Group that says 17 on the list but only actually contains 14. The Other 4 Generation Kills are MIA. Did both a regular and unplug reset, and no change.


----------



## softwiz

softwiz said:


> My dad just called me, said that his 16x9 picture is centered inside of his TV with black all around it. First thing I did was see if his 722 got 6.21 and sure enough it did.
> 
> I've tried everything to get the picture from the dish receiver to fill his screen like it did before. His TV is still on normal, the dish receiver is in normal but doesn't fill the screen anymore like it's scaled.
> 
> He's connected via HDMI. I've tried unplugging the power, tried changing the HDTV setup to 720p and then back to 1080i. Tried changing the aspect from 16x9 to 4x3 and back again. Nothing I've tried so far fixes this.
> 
> He does leave it in dual mode as he feeds a bedroom TV with this receiver.
> 
> Anyone else have any ideas on things to try to kick it out of this mode?


I've tried everything. I could not get the screen to fill the entire TV. There's definately some problem between the HDMI on the TV and Dish Receiver.

To verify this was a problem with 6.21, I took my Dad's other 722 which has NOT been upgrade to 6.21 (still running 6.18) and hooked it up to the TV and sure enough it works fine. The screen is filled with the TV on Normal and the Dish Receiver on Normal on a HD channel.

I hooked the 722 with 6.21 up to his other TV using component and it works just fine so again this seems to be an HDMI issue.

I'm leaving them this way but I'm sure 6.21 will come along soon on his other 722 and mess things up again. Dish better get on this issue.


----------



## tnsprin

As posted elsewhere, L621 should now be on all the ViP622 and ViP722 receivers.


----------



## phrelin

tnsprin said:


> As posted elsewhere, L621 should now be on all the ViP622 and ViP722 receivers.


Maybe it "should be" but it's not on my 722 serial number 8679xxxx as of this very minute.


----------



## askuhn

tnsprin said:


> As posted elsewhere, L621 should now be on all the ViP622 and ViP722 receivers.


I have not yet received L6.21 yet either, R008948....... (in standby at 3 am every day, no scheduled recordings either)


----------



## TulsaOK

softwiz said:


> I hooked the 722 with 6.21 up to his other TV using component and it works just fine so again this seems to be an HDMI issue.


There is an HDMI reset function in the Diagnostic menu. Have you tried that?


----------



## softwiz

tnsprin said:


> As posted elsewhere, L621 should now be on all the ViP622 and ViP722 receivers.


It's not on my main 722 and it's not on one of my dad's 722.

Maybe this evening.


----------



## softwiz

Kent Taylor said:


> There is an HDMI reset function in the Diagnostic menu. Have you tried that?


Nope didn't try that, but once the other 722 updates and if it's messed up again I'll give that a try.

Thanks


----------



## Ron Barry

I was going to suggest that you make sure you TV is set to the HDMI input and not a composite or coax input but it sounds like you are positive it is on your HDMI. WHat is you TV make and model? Perhaps there is someone around that has that TV and could provide input if they are seeing the same thing.


----------



## softwiz

Ron Barry said:


> I was going to suggest that you make sure you TV is set to the HDMI input and not a composite or coax input but it sounds like you are positive it is on your HDMI. WHat is you TV make and model? Perhaps there is someone around that has that TV and could provide input if they are seeing the same thing.


It's some weird brand that my parents bought from costco.com Yes I'm sure it's connected HDMI, that's the only cable that runs from the dish receiver to the TV.

I wish I would of tried the HDMI reset. I didn't know that was there. I may have to try it if this happens on the 722 that's still on 618 when 621 comes down.


----------



## mscroggi

You might also try to go into settings. HDTV setup, and change the 16x9 tv setting to 4x3, let it change.. then set it back to 16x9.. I dont know if this will help with the modulated outputs, but it helped me work around a new oddness with the HDMI output formatting..


----------



## mscroggi

Today when catching up on sports events recorded over the last two days, I saw a behavior I havent seen previously. On 4 occasions, the screen started this jerky playback (maybe at about 1 frame /second) while the audio stayed current. It looked kind of like a slideshow being updated every one or two seconds.. Like I said, the audio was not affected. After about 20 seconds or so, it would clear up. At the time I wondered if it was something to do with the live TV feed, but I have now noticed the same behavior on a different channel entirely. 

Another thing I have never seen before - I went into a folder of recorded programs grouped by title. When I selected the first program on the list, the buttons and the listbox went blank. It is like the graphics were being shown without any data populating the contents.. I went to other programs in the group and they loaded just fine.. later I went back into the group that caused the problem, and suddenly the problematic program loaded fine and I was able to play it back. Very strange..


----------



## kevin d

Count me in on the list with a reboot. 

TV had been on ID most of the night in the background. New show just started and I hit info to see what it was. Hit info twice more to clear it. 

Went into the DVR menu and saw two new L&O Criminal Intents. Went into that folder (name folder, not 'my group' folder). I was curious why two recorded and saw episode 171 & 176 were there, both showing original air date of today. I hit info on episode 171 to see if I had seen it. It pulled up the information from the show that was still playing live on ID. 

At that point it locked up and I couldn't do anything. ID played on for about 10 seconds before the unit rebooted. 

Can't reproduce it. 

Kevin D.


----------



## softwiz

mscroggi said:


> You might also try to go into settings. HDTV setup, and change the 16x9 tv setting to 4x3, let it change.. then set it back to 16x9.. I dont know if this will help with the modulated outputs, but it helped me work around a new oddness with the HDMI output formatting..


Did that, no go...


----------



## moman19

Not sure this was observed and posted: 

If I have saved several episodes of a particular event and I try to delete one (or several) on my 6.21 receiver, the event title still appears on MY RECORDINGS after I select DELETE. The event has been deleted but the screen requires refreshing to remove the listing. In the past, the event would properly vanish immediately after selecting DELETE.


----------



## RoughDobermann

Well, I spoke too soon. I still have the video and audio issue. I tried the HDMI reset, but it is greyed out. Only a re-boot, either via the power button, power cord or check switch solves it. I'm going to call Dish today. This is completely unacceptable.

I would guess it is an HDMI issue.

Nice firmware "upgrade," boys...


----------



## am9ac1

Is anyone else having issues with a paused event skipping back to live un-commanded? After I received L-621, I started having non recorded programs that were paused, spontaneously skipping back to live and programs that are recording that were started over to watch from the beginning also spontaneously skipping back to live. I called tech support last night and the CSR spent several minutes with me on hold, talking to "engineering", and reported back that others are having similar issues and they are working on a fix. Any others here experience similar issues?

Thanks

Andy


----------



## phrelin

phrelin said:


> tnsprin said:
> 
> 
> 
> As posted elsewhere, L621 should now be on all the ViP622 and ViP722 receivers.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it "should be" but it's not on my 722 serial number 8679xxxx as of this very minute.
Click to expand...

Still not on my 722 as of this morning.


----------



## JmC

mscroggi said:


> Today when catching up on sports events recorded over the last two days, I saw a behavior I havent seen previously. On 4 occasions, the screen started this jerky playback (maybe at about 1 frame /second) while the audio stayed current. It looked kind of like a slideshow being updated every one or two seconds.. Like I said, the audio was not affected. After about 20 seconds or so, it would clear up. At the time I wondered if it was something to do with the live TV feed, but I have now noticed the same behavior on a different channel entirely.


I noticed this same thing yesterday on the Sluth channel.

This may be a silly question, but are these issues getting reported to Dish Network. TPR's getting generated or e-mails to [email protected] ?


----------



## Ron Barry

Not a silly question JmC. We are not affiliated with Dish and we do not report these issues to Dish as a common practice. It is my understanding that Dish Engineers do wonder these threads and monitor and by doing so see the issues and I am sure they take what is said here and look for patterns along with reports received through the CSR channels. 

The recommendation we give is always try and report it through official Dish Channels in addition to these discussions. The benefit here is hopefully is building patterns and also getting to provide more detail in your experiences.


----------



## Henry

phrelin said:


> Still not on my 722 as of this morning.


It wouldn't surprise me if they stopped spooling to address some of the more obvious bugs. But that's just a guess.


----------



## RoughDobermann

softwiz said:


> My dad just called me, said that his 16x9 picture is centered inside of his TV with black all around it. First thing I did was see if his 722 got 6.21 and sure enough it did.
> 
> I've tried everything to get the picture from the dish receiver to fill his screen like it did before. His TV is still on normal, the dish receiver is in normal but doesn't fill the screen anymore like it's scaled.
> 
> He's connected via HDMI. I've tried unplugging the power, tried changing the HDTV setup to 720p and then back to 1080i. Tried changing the aspect from 16x9 to 4x3 and back again. Nothing I've tried so far fixes this.
> 
> He does leave it in dual mode as he feeds a bedroom TV with this receiver.
> 
> Anyone else have any ideas on things to try to kick it out of this mode?


That sounds very similar to the symptoms that I'm experiencing.


----------



## FarmerBob

mscroggi said:


> Today when catching up on sports events recorded over the last two days, I saw a behavior I havent seen previously. On 4 occasions, the screen started this jerky playback (maybe at about 1 frame /second) while the audio stayed current. It looked kind of like a slideshow being updated every one or two seconds.. Like I said, the audio was not affected. After about 20 seconds or so, it would clear up. At the time I wondered if it was something to do with the live TV feed, but I have now noticed the same behavior on a different channel entirely.


I just experienced this same thing while watching a live program on Sci-Fi. BUT when I went to the Extended Guide with Video it played as it should, back to full screen play and what I thought was 1 frame per 10 with proper audio, back to the EPG and proper play, etc. . . Switched to another channel, no problems. Switched back to Sci-Fi and the it resumed. I did a front panel restart/power cycle and it stopped.

I've had L6.21 from what seems the beginning, and problems are slowly popping up one by one. And Level One TS is not only clueless, but dense in regard to reporting and dealing with bugs. Have yet to deal with Level 2 or above. That's next.


----------



## Henry

RoughDobermann said:


> That sounds very similar to the symptoms that I'm experiencing.


There is a known bug having to do with TV2 aspect ratio. I haven't heard of any before this affecting TV1.

I don't know that it'll do any good, but you might try to toggle the PiP button through the entire sequence (four repetitive clicks). It seems to reset TV2 just fine, maybe it'll work on TV1 as well. Oh, BTW, if it works, you'll probably have to repeat the PiP sequence after every reboot of the reciever.


----------



## RoughDobermann

HDG said:


> There is a known bug having to do with TV2 aspect ratio. I haven't heard of any before this affecting TV1.
> 
> I don't know that it'll do any good, but you might try to toggle the PiP button through the entire sequence (four repetitive clicks). I seems to reset TV2 just fine, maybe it'll work on TV1 as well. Oh, BTW, if it works, you'll probably have to repeat the PiP sequence after every reboot of the reciever.


My 722 is hooked up to one TV only, BTW. The PiP does bring the channel audio and video up in the PiP box, but when I go to swap, the swap is just a black box. Then, when I swap back, the channel is displayed but with the black box cutting into the screen.

It's totally unwatchable.

I called into Dish and they knew nothing. Started a trouble ticket or something and promised to get back to me within 24 hours.


----------



## phrelin

HDG said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if they stopped spooling to address some of the more obvious bugs. But that's just a guess.


One can only hope.


----------



## Henry

RoughDobermann said:


> My 722 is hooked up to one TV only, BTW. The PiP does bring the channel audio and video up in the PiP box, but when I go to swap, the swap is just a black box. Then, when I swap back, the channel is displayed but with the black box cutting into the screen.
> 
> It's totally unwatchable.
> 
> I called into Dish and they knew nothing. Started a trouble ticket or something and promised to get back to me within 24 hours.


Well, it was a shot in the dark, so to speak. I have two TVs hooked up, but I don't _Swap. _I just toggle through the sequence and that does the trick for me.

Hope E* can come up with a solution for you, even if they call it L6.18. :sure:


----------



## Henry

phrelin said:


> One can only hope.


Fingers crossed...


----------



## RoughDobermann

HDG said:


> Well, it was a shot in the dark, so to speak. I have two TVs hooked up, but I don't _Swap. _I just toggle through the sequence and that does the trick for me.
> 
> Hope E* can come up with a solution for you, even if they call it L6.18. :sure:


Heh. Yes, I asked the technical support person if they could send my receiver 6.18. The silence was deafening.


----------



## Henry

RoughDobermann said:


> Heh. Yes, I asked the technical support person if they could send my receiver 6.18. The silence was deafening.


Of course. :lol:


----------



## Ron Barry

RoughDobermann said:


> Heh. Yes, I asked the technical support person if they could send my receiver 6.18. The silence was deafening.


Dish does not roll back individual receivers and very rarely issue a full rollback. In all my time here i think it has happened twice. Based on the input I have seen here I would not expect that to happen. I would compare notes on the TV models with the two reporting similar issue here though to see if they are the same TV.

Also, Have you tried Component to see if you get the same experience? Might be a work around until the issue is resolved.


----------



## RoughDobermann

Ron Barry said:


> Dish does not roll back individual receivers and very rarely issue a full rollback. In all my time here i think it has happened twice. Based on the input I have seen here I would not expect that to happen. I would compare notes on the TV models with the two reporting similar issue here though to see if they are the same TV.
> 
> Also, Have you tried Component to see if you get the same experience? Might be a work around until the issue is resolved.


It is a Samsung LNT4661F. No, I haven't tried switching to component video, nor will I. It worked fine with 6.18. They broke it. They need to fix it.


----------



## Ron Barry

RoughDobermann said:


> It is a Samsung LNT4661F. No, I haven't tried switching to component video, nor will I. It worked fine with 6.18. They broke it. They need to fix it.


Thanks for the model. It would be good to cross reference with others if they run into.

As to switching to component. I was offering it as a work around. If it is easy to accomplish might be worth doing while applying pressure to resolve the issue. There are a lot of people on HDMI and based on posts here they are not seeing this issue so I would suspect this is a incompatibility between the new software and your model and if it was me... I would take the following action.

1) Check if there is any Samsung updates available for your TV(if it is firmware updatable). If so, I would try and apply them. It is possible that the update on the Dish side exposed a bug on the Samsung side. There is always two sides to the communication channel and I have seen in the past where an update introducing new functionality in the communication channel exposes an issue on the other side of the conversation. I know long shot but something to look at.

2) Like I said above, if you can move to component I would give it a try as a stop gap measure until the issue is resolved.

3) Continue to apply pressure to fix the issue if it is a Dish issue.

That would be my advice... Yes you should not have to move to component but without a root cause on the issue I would recommend the course of action above to try and get the TV restored to a watchable state as soon as possible.


----------



## RoughDobermann

Ron Barry said:


> Thanks for the model. It would be good to cross reference with others if they run into.
> 
> As to switching to component. I was offering it as a work around. If it is easy to accomplish might be worth doing while applying pressure to resolve the issue. There are a lot of people on HDMI and based on posts here they are not seeing this issue so I would suspect this is a incompatibility between the new software and your model and if it was me... I would take the following action.
> 
> 1) Check if there is any Samsung updates available for your TV(if it is firmware updatable). If so, I would try and apply them. It is possible that the update on the Dish side exposed a bug on the Samsung side. There is always two sides to the communication channel and I have seen in the past where an update introducing new functionality in the communication channel exposes an issue on the other side of the conversation. I know long shot but something to look at.
> 
> 2) Like I said above, if you can move to component I would give it a try as a stop gap measure until the issue is resolved.
> 
> 3) Continue to apply pressure to fix the issue if it is a Dish issue.
> 
> That would be my advice... Yes you should not have to move to component but without a root cause on the issue I would recommend the course of action above to try and get the TV restored to a watchable state as soon as possible.


Your suggestion is completely sound, of course, and I appreciate it. I'm not touching the firmware in my TV. Considering a reboot of the 722 fixes it, that would seem to point out that the 722 firmware is the issue, no?

I suppose I will break out my component cables and try that next time it breaks. The wife's gonna love that!

The last thing I want is another firmware "upgrade" on ANY of my stuff.


----------



## Henry

Well done, Ron! Way over the top.


----------



## TubaSaxT

mscroggi said:


> Today when catching up on sports events recorded over the last two days, I saw a behavior I havent seen previously. On 4 occasions, the screen started this jerky playback (maybe at about 1 frame /second) while the audio stayed current. It looked kind of like a slideshow being updated every one or two seconds.. Like I said, the audio was not affected. After about 20 seconds or so, it would clear up. At the time I wondered if it was something to do with the live TV feed, but I have now noticed the same behavior on a different channel entirely.


I've been seeing this for months. It only happens once or twice a week, so it doesn't usually bother me. Happens on live and recorded programs.


----------



## mscroggi

Being the positive minded person I am - 
One nice thing I have noticed about 6.21 - it appears they have improved the HD free recording time algorithm.. It seems to be relatively accurate now. Before, the amount of High Def recording time wasnt being calculated accurately at all.. I could delete a program that would be 3 hours long, and the amount of free recording time would only increase maybe 25 minutes or so.. I didnt notice this listed as one of the changes in 6.21..


----------



## mscroggi

Ron Barry said:


> Not a silly question JmC. We are not affiliated with Dish and we do not report these issues to Dish as a common practice. It is my understanding that Dish Engineers do wonder these threads and monitor and by doing so see the issues and I am sure they take what is said here and look for patterns along with reports received through the CSR channels.
> 
> The recommendation we give is always try and report it through official Dish Channels in addition to these discussions. The benefit here is hopefully is building patterns and also getting to provide more detail in your experiences.


DOH! I thought you had some kind of affiliation with Dish, and setup these message threads to collect feedback after the firmware releases...

I bundled up my experiences with 6.21 and emailed them to tech-at-dishnetwork-dot-com.. I hope they get some of these things fixed soon.. I cant remember experiencing this many issues with a release..


----------



## Ron Barry

HDG said:


> Well done, Ron! Way over the top.


What do you mean by way over the top?

Whenever I get a software update and something goes wrong between two interfacing products I always look at both sides for the exact reason I described above. I don't see it way that is over the top by any means. To me it is troubleshooting 101 in this day and age of multiple device integration.

I can totally understand why the OP might not want to take this route, but for me I would at least look and see if there was an update on the other end, see what fixes there was, and perhaps there might be one that addresses handshaking and in that case I might take the risk.

In fact this happened a while back where Dish upgraded and some OTA stations stopped working in a DMA. Reports came in here regarding this not issue and the blame quickly went to the Dish upgrade. Well after a few weeks and constant claims it was the Dish Software because of the update it turned out a config change on the other end caused the Dish Receiver and one other device (Samsung) to stop working. This issue was found by someone doing a search on AVSForums and finding that the Samsung's issue happend at the same time. This lead to a configuration change was made on the other end OTA being restored.

Overtime I have seen cases where a software release tightens its error handling functionality with external devices that when the 722 is updated leads to an incompatibility with an external device that once worked. The report usually comes in as it worked with my 722 and after the update it does not work so the 722 software is broken. This is ofcourse totally a reasonable observation, but in reality the interfacing device had a communication defect that the 722 was ignoring and a software update added code to no longer ignore the issue.

Of course I am not saying this is the case with the issue I was responding to. I only offerred up the approach I would take to minimize my pain if it was happening to me. The op can take the advice or choose to ignore it because in the end it is just advice and personally I don't consider it over the top because it is what I would do if I ran into the issue.


----------



## Ron Barry

mscroggi said:


> Being the positive minded person I am -
> One nice thing I have noticed about 6.21 - it appears they have improved the HD free recording time algorithm.. It seems to be relatively accurate now. Before, the amount of High Def recording time wasnt being calculated accurately at all.. I could delete a program that would be 3 hours long, and the amount of free recording time would only increase maybe 25 minutes or so.. I didnt notice this listed as one of the changes in 6.21..


Hmm interesting.. Makes me wonder if they went to one that is more along the lines of more MPEG4 recorded material than OTA rather than more MPEG2 material on the drive.


----------



## Ron Barry

mscroggi said:


> DOH! I thought you had some kind of affiliation with Dish, and setup these message threads to collect feedback after the firmware releases...
> 
> I bundled up my experiences with 6.21 and emailed them to tech-at-dishnetwork-dot-com.. I hope they get some of these things fixed soon.. I cant remember experiencing this many issues with a release..


Nope.. There is not a public site that has that responsibility as far as I know. That does not mean there are not people that hang here that have relationships with people from Echostar where information can be brought to the attention of the Echostar engineering department if warranted.

Like I said earlier, I am confident the engineers wonder these halls looking at the reports and seeing if there is patterns or well described issue that they can validate and that is why it is always suggest to be as detailed as possible and the reason for the "No Bashing" rule that is unique to the support forums.


----------



## TulsaOK

I notice that resuming from a pause skips ahead a second or two instead of resuming from where it was paused.


----------



## kstuart

mscroggi said:


> Being the positive minded person I am -
> One nice thing I have noticed about 6.21 - it appears they have improved the HD free recording time algorithm.. It seems to be relatively accurate now. Before, the amount of High Def recording time wasnt being calculated accurately at all.. I could delete a program that would be 3 hours long, and the amount of free recording time would only increase maybe 25 minutes or so.. I didnt notice this listed as one of the changes in 6.21..


That's interesting because mine has not changed, and I have 6.21 .

If it were corrected, then the HD Avail time would be roughly half the SD Avail time... currently I am still showing a ratio of 6 and 2/3 to 1.

So, if you do not use OTA recording, then just cut the SD figure in half and it should be *roughly* correct.


----------



## Henry

Ron Barry said:


> What do you mean by way over the top


Sorry, Ron, it was a compliment for another action you later decided not to post. I got notified via email anyway and agreed with your action.

Well done! Way over the top.


----------



## Ron Barry

Oh.... Ok.. I thought it was in regards to my recommendation regarding troubleshooting and was not sure why you felt it was over the top.... Thanks for the clarification..


----------



## Henry

Ron Barry said:


> Oh.... Ok.. I thought it was in regards to my recommendation regarding troubleshooting and was not sure why you felt it was over the top.... Thanks for the clarification..


Gosh no! Recommendations and advice *is the reason* we come here!

I could have been less cryptic, I suppose. I do apologize ... now either go rest your fingers or douse your keyboard.


----------



## mscroggi

kstuart said:


> That's interesting because mine has not changed, and I have 6.21 .
> 
> If it were corrected, then the HD Avail time would be roughly half the SD Avail time... currently I am still showing a ratio of 6 and 2/3 to 1.
> 
> So, if you do not use OTA recording, then just cut the SD figure in half and it should be *roughly* correct.


I believe the ratio of HD to SD is typically around 7 or 8 to 1. I admit that I tend not to pay too much attention to the SD amount anymore since going HD.. since there is always somuch SD space available in comparison..

The problem I was referencing was like this - My receiver shows 5 hours of HD recording time left. I delete 3 hours of HD programming from the DVR. You would expect to see something in the area of 8 hours of HD time available after the deletes, but instead I would see something like 5 hours and 40 minutes.. I need to test it more but earlier I deleted some HD programming and the available HD time counter seemed to be inline with what I would have expected..


----------



## olguy

mscroggi said:


> I believe the ratio of HD to SD is typically around 7 or 8 to 1. I admit that I tend not to pay too much attention to the SD amount anymore since going HD.. since there is always somuch SD space available in comparison..
> 
> The problem I was referencing was like this - My receiver shows 5 hours of HD recording time left. I delete 3 hours of HD programming from the DVR. You would expect to see something in the area of 8 hours of HD time available after the deletes, but instead I would see something like 5 hours and 40 minutes.. I need to test it more but earlier I deleted some HD programming and the available HD time counter seemed to be inline with what I would have expected..


You will never have 1 for 1. Every program uses a different amount of space on the hard drive. I don't remember which is which but a program with a lot of action, as opposed to folks sitting around talking, has a different amount of compression for the same time period. If you have an EHD you can see the kBs used for each program. Not every Cold Case uses the same space. Not every Fringe uses the same amount of space. And so on. And certainly not every Cold Case uses the same amount of space as every Fringe.


----------



## mscroggi

olguy said:


> You will never have 1 for 1. Every program uses a different amount of space on the hard drive. I don't remember which is which but a program with a lot of action, as opposed to folks sitting around talking, has a different amount of compression for the same time period. If you have an EHD you can see the kBs used for each program. Not every Cold Case uses the same space. Not every Fringe uses the same amount of space. And so on. And certainly not every Cold Case uses the same amount of space as every Fringe.


I am not sure we are both arguing the same point.... Absolutely the amount of disk space is not a constant for a certain amount of time. It varies for sure.. A video stream with many changes in it will not compress as nicely as a more static video feed. But you will typically see a HD to SD ratio of around 7 to 8 /1 .. If you delete 7 or 8 hours of SD you should gain around 1 hour of HD recording time.. Previously, the HD available time being reflected after such a delete would be way below the 1 hour expected.


----------



## Tulsa1

Trick play is definitely still randomly unpredictable


----------



## mscroggi

Tulsa1 said:


> Trick play is definitely still randomly unpredictable


 Hmm can you elaborate please? That post doesnt make any sense to me..


----------



## Tulsa1

mscroggi said:


> Hmm can you elaborate please? That post doesnt make any sense to me..


That was kind of my point
The trick play functions are still very unreliable.
Frame by frame and skip fwd/rev
The pointer can land anywhere when using these


----------



## Henry

mscroggi said:


> Hmm can you elaborate please? That post doesnt make any sense to me..


I'm guessing it's D*-speak. I've never heard of the term either.


----------



## TulsaOK

HDG said:


> I'm guessing it's D*-speak. I've never heard of the term either.




Do a search on "trick play". It's been discussed here _*many, many *_times.

I apologize if I've missed the sarcasm.


----------



## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> Do a search on "trick play". It's been discussed here _*many, many *_times.
> 
> I apologize if I've missed the sarcasm.


Thanks. I hope I didn't take up too much of your time.


----------



## TulsaOK

HDG said:


> Thanks. I hope I didn't take up too much of your time.


Not at all. This is a support forum. Happy to help.


----------



## olguy

mscroggi said:


> I am not sure we are both arguing the same point.... Absolutely the amount of disk space is not a constant for a certain amount of time. It varies for sure.. A video stream with many changes in it will not compress as nicely as a more static video feed. But you will typically see a HD to SD ratio of around 7 to 8 /1 .. If you delete 7 or 8 hours of SD you should gain around 1 hour of HD recording time.. Previously, the HD available time being reflected after such a delete would be way below the 1 hour expected.


I ran a little experiment today. I recorded the same movie at the same time on 303 and 303HD to see how much time was "used" by each one. And while it was recording I was watching something else. While watching something else, the lamp blew on my Tosh. Hope my CRS let's me remember why I did that come Friday and I get the Tosh lit up again


----------



## Ray_Schwarz

DJ Lon said:


> I've noticed with L621 that my SD & HD channels from TV1 via HDMI have leveled off again like it used to be. Can't remember the thread but I wrote to Dish about the volume difference a while back [after it changed] and I posted the response they sent me stating they were aware of the problem and were working on a fix.
> 
> On another note TV2 audio doesn't "pop" as much as it did before, especially with HD channels.


And I had the opposite effect - the SD & HD channels from TV1 via HDMI
had been level and now the SD (usually music) has a much higher volume when I switch from an HD channel. I guess its how the audio receiver processes Dolby vs non-dolby sound.


----------



## RasputinAXP

moman19 said:


> Not sure this was observed and posted:
> 
> If I have saved several episodes of a particular event and I try to delete one (or several) on my 6.21 receiver, the event title still appears on MY RECORDINGS after I select DELETE. The event has been deleted but the screen requires refreshing to remove the listing. In the past, the event would properly vanish immediately after selecting DELETE.


I noticed this behavior only in recordings that I've grouped; they stay on the menu but are entirely blank if you enter them. Bailing out of the DVR menu and going back repairs it.


----------



## moman19

RasputinAXP said:


> I noticed this behavior only in recordings that I've grouped; they stay on the menu but are entirely blank if you enter them. Bailing out of the DVR menu and going back repairs it.


That is correct. Since all my recordings are grouped, that's my experience. It's a minor issue, but it is not the correct way it should work. It worked properly with 6.18.


----------



## Ron Barry

Yep.. definitely one I would consider a bug with a legit workaround.


----------



## FarmerBob

Kent Taylor said:


> I notice that resuming from a pause skips ahead a second or two instead of resuming from where it was paused.


Mine skips back a second or so. That I kinda like. L6.18 did that too.


----------



## tnsprin

phrelin said:


> Maybe it "should be" but it's not on my 722 serial number 8679xxxx as of this very minute.


Apparently its all ViP622's and ViP722's R0050462129-R0083658495


----------



## tnsprin

moman19 said:


> That is correct. Since all my recordings are grouped, that's my experience. It's a minor issue, but it is not the correct way it should work. It worked properly with 6.18.


I was having,and reported this, prior to 6.21 for group by title. I don't consider it a new bug. I would be nice to fix in any case.


----------



## moman19

tnsprin said:


> I was having,and reported this, prior to 6.21 for group by title. I don't consider it a new bug. I would be nice to fix in any case.


That's strange. I have my 622 and 722 set up exactly the same way. The 622 is running 6.21 and clearly has this issue while the 722 with 6.18 (as of yesterday) does not.


----------



## am9ac1

Has anyone else experienced the issues I have? On many occasions I have had 10 to 20 minutes worth of a program paused, to skip through commercials. When I hit play, about half the time it will skip all the way to "live". I can rewind back to the point I was and hit play and sometimes it will play from there on other times it will skip back to live again. This didn't start until I received L-621. This is not acceptable to me.


----------



## mscroggi

kstuart said:


> That's interesting because mine has not changed, and I have 6.21 .
> 
> If it were corrected, then the HD Avail time would be roughly half the SD Avail time... currently I am still showing a ratio of 6 and 2/3 to 1.
> 
> So, if you do not use OTA recording, then just cut the SD figure in half and it should be *roughly* correct.





mscroggi said:


> Being the positive minded person I am -
> One nice thing I have noticed about 6.21 - it appears they have improved the HD free recording time algorithm.. It seems to be relatively accurate now. Before, the amount of High Def recording time wasnt being calculated accurately at all.. I could delete a program that would be 3 hours long, and the amount of free recording time would only increase maybe 25 minutes or so.. I didnt notice this listed as one of the changes in 6.21..


Well I was absolutely wrong on this.. I deleted a series of 30 minute HD recordings.. for every 30 program I deleted, I would gain 10 minutes of HD recording time.. For some reason I thought the algorithm might have been corrected... but not so..


----------



## Bogey62

Kent Taylor said:


> I notice that resuming from a pause skips ahead a second or two instead of resuming from where it was paused.


This issue has been going on for way over a year. I first noticed it on my 622 and I haven't had one of those since the 722 came out.

Try the trick play with the frame advance fwd or rew -- mine will almost always jump 10 minutes or so into the program after resuming normal playback. It also doesn't skip a single frame at a time either.

Very frustrating and it doesn't look as though it will ever get fixed.


----------



## Bogey62

I've been cursing under my breath each morning I check my 722 and I still have 6.18.

I really want the Group feature, but maybe I should be thankful I don't have it yet after reading this thread.


----------



## TulsaOK

Bogey62 said:


> This issue has been going on for way over a year. I first noticed it on my 622 and I haven't had one of those since the 722 came out.
> 
> Try the trick play with the frame advance fwd or rew -- mine will almost always jump 10 minutes or so into the program after resuming normal playback. It also doesn't skip a single frame at a time either.
> 
> Very frustrating and it doesn't look as though it will ever get fixed.


If you have the ability to get programming OTA, tune to a 720p channel and see how well the trick plays work. At least on my 722, they work flawlessly. It's a compression issue on satellite channels (IMO).


----------



## ehb224

So is 6.21 still rolling out or has it stopped because of bugs? I've had it on my 622 for 2 weeks now but my 722 is still at 6.18. 
I had the same situation with and earlier release where I had the new one on one receiver and the other never upgraded until the next release. 
It seems they stopped the upgrade because of too many bugs. Is this the same situation?


----------



## Mokanic

I like the concept of Groups. But, I do not believe it is quite ready for general usage yet. 

I have noticed two or three things that cause reboots. I'm sure these have already been discussed in depth. But basically, I can't touch what is being recorded. The one that is not in the group or even the group itself. I get reboot everytime I try to perform ANY function with the group if ANYTHING is being recorded that goes into that group. I can't even watch something else in that group while something entirely different is being recorded.
I have had three reboots today while trying to watch, stop, or otherwise manipulate these groups or their recordings.

I will remove the groups from my receiver until I see better results from other firmware revisions.

Running;
ViP622 / L621 /R0076182400-18

David


----------



## TulsaOK

Does this Group problem seem to affect 622's more than 722's?


----------



## Dr. Cool

I confirmed all the problems above with my 622.
Yet, it's the most useful resource added to the 622, with or without bugs.
It would be even better however if Dish would implement a group lockdown option using the system password.


----------



## Henry

Kent Taylor said:


> Does this Group problem seem to affect 622's more than 722's?


Seems so. I'm not using the MyGroup function because of the reboot bug(s).


----------



## tymekeeper

ehb224 said:


> So is 6.21 still rolling out or has it stopped because of bugs? I've had it on my 622 for 2 weeks now but my 722 is still at 6.18.
> I had the same situation with and earlier release where I had the new one on one receiver and the other never upgraded until the next release.
> It seems they stopped the upgrade because of too many bugs. Is this the same situation?


I haven't gotten 6.21 either and Ihave a VIP 722


----------



## softwiz

ehb224 said:


> So is 6.21 still rolling out or has it stopped because of bugs? I've had it on my 622 for 2 weeks now but my 722 is still at 6.18.
> I had the same situation with and earlier release where I had the new one on one receiver and the other never upgraded until the next release.
> It seems they stopped the upgrade because of too many bugs. Is this the same situation?


I think it's stopped. My dad and I have one receiver with 6.21 and one without.

Anyone confirm they stopped spooling 6.21?


----------



## Ron Barry

HDG said:


> Seems so. I'm not using the MyGroup function because of the reboot bug(s).


I have seen it on my 722. Not sure if there is any evidence that it happens more on the 622 than on a 722. I am personally using the feature but I just remember that if I see it recording in a group and change it to DVR Title Grouping and access it that way. I have not seen a reboot doing it that way.


----------



## Ron Barry

softwiz said:


> I think it's stopped. My dad and I have one receiver with 6.21 and one without.
> 
> Anyone confirm they stopped spooling 6.21?


With the MyGroup reboot issue, it would not surprise me if they held up the roll out to fix this issue and then continue the roll out. I have not seen any official word, but I would not be surprised that an unofficial word appears on the net.


----------



## Henry

Ron Barry said:


> I have seen it on my 722. Not sure if there is any evidence that it happens more on the 622 than on a 722. I am personally using the feature but I just remember that if I see it recording in a group and change it to DVR Title Grouping and access it that way. I have not seen a reboot doing it that way.


I wouldn't know about the 622 vs. 722, Ron ... I only have a 622.

I can tell you that in my book, the reboot bug is a show stopper. I decided not to use the feature mostly because I don't want to listen to my wife gripe about it (the bug manifests itself during playback on my machine). And of course, the bug takes away from the freedom you normally have to navigate the DVR menus at will.

I think I can be patient and wait for E* to fix it ... which hopefully they're doing right now.


----------



## Ron Barry

HDG said:


> I wouldn't know about the 622 vs. 722, Ron ... I only have a 622.
> 
> I can tell you that in my book, the reboot bug is a show stopper. I decided not to use the feature mostly because I don't want to listen to my wife gripe about it (the bug manifests itself during playback on my machine). And of course, the bug takes away from the freedom you normally have to navigate the DVR menus at will.
> 
> I think I can be patient and wait for E* to fix it ... which hopefully they're doing right now.


Yep.. Definitely with these type of bugs and a workaround it is up to each user to choose to use the feature or not knowing of the issue and how to work around it. I am sure some will also use it on a casual basis as a way to quickly get to their shows.

Lets hope a fix will show up quickly.


----------



## Henry

Ron Barry said:


> Yep.. Definitely with these type of bugs and a workaround it is up to each user to choose to use the feature or not knowing of the issue and how to work around it. I am sure some will also use it on a casual basis as a way to quickly get to their shows.
> 
> Lets hope a fix will show up quickly.


I can just imagine if I were to set up a MyGroup for my wife and she ran into the bug. How quickly do you think it would turn E*'s problem into mine?  I can work around it - I did it when I was playing with the feature long after she'd gone to bed - but she (1) doesn't care whose problem it is and (2)_ "you'd* better* do something about it". :nono2:_

It's safer for my sanity to be patient_._


----------



## WildLatin

Ron Barry said:


> With the MyGroup reboot issue, it would not surprise me if they held up the roll out to fix this issue and then continue the roll out. I have not seen any official word, but I would not be surprised that an unofficial word appears on the net.


First, thanks to ALL here for the free exchange of (mostly) useful information - I hope we all realize the value of this type of forum- even if not 100% accurate, it is certainly parsecs ahead of what the satellite providers are doing to inform their customers of both features and problems in this complex technology*.

*Which we often take for granted- until it breaks :eek2:!

*That said I'd like to briefly add my recent VIP722 experience with going from L6.18 to L6.21. I think this points to another issue...
* 
I first noticed 'strange' behavior on Friday 03Jul09 :

 When I finished watching a recording and pressed 'Stop' no menu pop up. Hmmm. I had to forward to the end and allow the menu to come up to delete, etc.


 Then, when I go to watch something else 'My Recordings' is empty !_(Whoa ! This isn't getting better...)_

So I restart and everything is fixed- except _what are those weird options?_
*
It was at this time that my right brain sensed a familiar pattern... software upgrade? Similar situations have occurred since the days of DISH antiquity...
*


> Posted by: kirbyMeister at Nov 21, 2004 4:06:09 PM
> The DVR 522 is in trouble dishnet released a software upgrade about 3 weeks ago, end of december and it caused this problem on almost all their 522s, ... Lets hope they get it fixed since 522s are selling like hotcakes


* (This is just 5yrs old, I'm sure you could find one 10yrs old.)

I then rediscovered DBSTalk.com which I believe is one the most informative forums anywhere.

I read about the 'My Groups' features and thus turned it off for now.

I am also now archiving (EHD) the entire ~400Gb of my internal drive to an Iomega Prestige 1Tb. 
The ETR bar (est. time remaining) is showing ~10 HRS !!! (I haven't done forum search for this)...*
*Why does it take so long???*

*BUT- My 722 is STILL displaying this happy notice... 








I just reset again- and everything boots ok. After the transfer to EHD is done I will finally say 'Delete Now'. I hope it makes it for 10 more hours...But the point is: Could it have made it for 10 more months under L6.18 ?*

*BTW, I strongly suggested to DISH that they waive the EHD Fee -and they did.

QUESTION: Is there a precedent for software upgrades causing hard disc failure problems- possibly where errors are minor and acceptable to the previous version?*

*Bottom Line: I think I could have done without L6.21...*

_Sorry if you don't like the larger font size- I'm old and Presbyterian (spell check!), errrr... presbyopic. _


----------



## Ron Barry

Welcome to DBSTalk WildLatin and good first post. In terms of software updates causing disk corruption, I have seen reports before but they do appear to be rare and at it is hard to tell if it is the software update that is causing the problem or just coincidence in timing. 

Please report back if the error goes away once you have gotten all your material off your drive. 10hrs is a long time, but 400GB is also a lot of data.


----------



## TulsaOK

Ron Barry said:


> Welcome to DBSTalk WildLatin and good first post. In terms of software updates causing disk corruption, I have seen reports before but they do appear to be rare and at it is hard to tell if it is the software update that is causing the problem or just coincidence in timing.
> 
> Please report back if the error goes away once you have gotten all your material off your drive. 10hrs is a long time, but 400GB is also a lot of data.


I've timed my transfer rate to a WD My Book Essential and I get ~16Gb/hour. 10 hours seems pretty quick to me.


----------



## HDlover

am9ac1 said:


> Has anyone else experienced the issues I have? On many occasions I have had 10 to 20 minutes worth of a program paused, to skip through commercials. When I hit play, about half the time it will skip all the way to "live". I can rewind back to the point I was and hit play and sometimes it will play from there on other times it will skip back to live again. This didn't start until I received L-621. This is not acceptable to me.


Yes and other bugs as well. Dish needs to rollback to the previous firmware and fix 6.21! We don't need groups that don't work on the EHD.


----------



## Henry

HDlover said:


> Yes and other bugs as well. Dish needs to rollback to the previous firmware and fix 6.21! *We don't need groups that don't work on the EHD*.


While I agree with you, it's been indirectly pointed out that the EHD is secondary in importance to the primary functions of the receivers. A software release primarily addresses the functions of the receivers. In time, some of these functions find their way to the secondary device such as the EHD.

Think of it as a _test bed_. The receiver gets the function first, then they iron out the bugs, and two or three software releases later, your EHD gets those that apply.

While L6.21 has been a doozy, I started noticing small glitches with L6.18. Things that worked flawlessly before were suddenly acting up. It didn't help that the features failed at random or that the receiver did things on its own schedule (reboots, menu resets, jumps to Live TV, etc.), and never really established a set pattern.

But, like with most other releases, E* eventually figures them out and makes corrections. Unfortunately, correcting one problem usually leads to another. It's the old rule of unintended consequences... it's alive and well, and as long as E* persists in using us as Beta testers, it will live a long and happy life.

I agree that L6.21 merits a rollback and from what other poster are saying, it may be in the works. At the very least they seem to have stopped the rollout, and that might be a positive sign that they are working on resolving the bugs before re-starting the spool. Keep your fingers crossed.:sure:


----------



## Ron Barry

HDlover said:


> Yes and other bugs as well. Dish needs to rollback to the previous firmware and fix 6.21! We don't need groups that don't work on the EHD.


Based on the reports I have read here, I would not expect a roll back (My opinion). From what I can see based on my experience and the posts here, the major issues we have ran into is My Group freeze lockup and that has a work around of either not using the feature to avoid the freeze or not accessing the groups when something is being recorded. More likely scenario is fixing the freeze reboot with MyGroups and spooling a feature with the fix to the field. Rollbacks are very risky propositions and in my time here I have seen it happen twice.

As for "We" don't need groups that don't work on EHD. Actually I find the feature has a lot of value without EHD as others have also found it useful and reported such in this thread. I agree there is a critical bug introduced with this feature based on the reports, but the feature still has merit without EHD support. I do hope we see it added to EHD in the future.


----------



## rhdbs

Well, FWIW I'll chime in here too. I saw the hang/reboot the other day when trying to do something with a program that was in a group. I forget what I was doing but I remember that the program I had selected was in a group and also had a recording in progress. What caught my eye was the group folder with the red dot in it - meaning something belonging to that group was being recorded. 

I just recently got a second 722 and it went from L6.18 to L6.21 a couple of days after being installed. My other 722 is still at L6.18. Perhaps they push to newer units first - assuming the risk of loss is less than that of a box running for months and full of recorded content.


----------



## RoughDobermann

I tried to use component cables to see if they would display video before my now normal routine of re-booting my 722. No go. I called Dish again and the tech went through the normal "are you sure you don't have a loose cables" nonsense. I then went into a recorded event and hit "Start Over." As usual, no video or audio was displayed, so I hit Stop and canceled back out to main menu. All of a sudden, picture and audio was restored.

So, I guess I at least have a work-around without a hard re-boot (if it can be duplicated, that is.)


----------



## Ron Barry

Hmmm.. That is interesting... That to me is a strong indicator that most likely the issue is not HDMI related. How often is this occurring? Has anyone else reported similar experience?


----------



## RoughDobermann

Ron Barry said:


> Hmmm.. That is interesting... That to me is a strong indicator that most likely the issue is not HDMI related. How often is this occurring? Has anyone else reported similar experience?


At least once per day, usually when it goes into inactivity stand-by. The tech said that "black screen" is not an uncommon problem.


----------



## kstuart

RoughDobermann said:


> At least once per day, usually when it goes into inactivity stand-by. The tech said that "black screen" is not an uncommon problem.


I disabled inactivity stand-by the same day that they introduced it.


----------



## RoughDobermann

kstuart said:


> I disabled inactivity stand-by the same day that they introduced it.


Heh. Yeah, but my 722 will still have issues even when inactivity standby is disabled. I guess I'm special...


----------



## RoughDobermann

The fun continues! Now when I try the "play a DVR event" to workaround the issue, the menu locks up and the 722 re-boots after about ten seconds. This is ridiculous.


----------



## Ron Barry

Are you using MyGroups? If so, this issue may have been reported already by others. Work around is to use Group my DVR Title or No Grouping.


----------



## darkstarchuck

> *That said I'd like to briefly add my recent VIP722 experience with going from L6.18 to L6.21. I think this points to another issue...*
> I first noticed 'strange' behavior on Friday 03Jul09 :
> 
> When I finished watching a recording and pressed 'Stop' no menu pop up. Hmmm. I had to forward to the end and allow the menu to come up to delete, etc.


I'm having the same problem with the EHD on my 622. Had been, what I thought, issue free w/ 6.21, then I replaced my EHD, as the first 500MB HD was failing, with a new 1TB drive, now when I stop or pause, there's no pop-up, then I can't play or resume unless I skip forward or back. When I do FF to the end, I still cannot erase! I did copy a few shows from the old drive w/ restore function, then copy to the new drive. Maybe that has something to do with it? I'm ready to call tech support, I guess, cause I've tried several soft resets, and a hard one, too, to no avail.


----------



## RoughDobermann

Ron Barry said:


> Are you using MyGroups? If so, this issue may have been reported already by others. Work around is to use Group my DVR Title or No Grouping.


No. I haven't even looked at the Groups feature.


----------



## RoughDobermann

I gave up on my old 722 and called Dish to request a new one. They were rather compliant, considering I've been a customer for 10 years. Too bad I'll lose all my recorded events, but, meh.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Just had a scheduled recording record but it never showed up in My Recording even though I know something was recording since the light was lit on the front panel. No groups are setup.


----------



## Ron Barry

RoughDobermann said:


> I gave up on my old 722 and called Dish to request a new one. They were rather compliant, considering I've been a customer for 10 years. Too bad I'll lose all my recorded events, but, meh.


Not a bad Idea.. Definitely some strange behavior.. HOpe you report back if the replacement shows the same symptoms.


----------



## ZBoomer

Still have 6.18 on my 722; my 622 got 6.21 weeks ago. I would have to think they stopped spooling? My 722 is always one of the last, but doesn't typically take THIS long.


----------



## FarmerBob

One of my main complaints since I got DISH HD for my brand new 50" HDTV last September is that the HDMI picture was not as good as OTA direct. And DISH agreed saying that there were PQ issues that would be dealt with in "near" the future. When that would be though, there's no telling and they wouldn't say. But the past week or so the PQ on my screen has gotten really nice. Not what I was told it will be or still as good as good as OTA direct, but looking very nice. So much so I thought that maybe I got another software update which was released earlier than normal with bug fixes and this was one. But no, am still at L6.21. Although, something is going on because things are looking very nice.

. . . fb


----------



## tnsprin

L6.21 did include some fixes for HDMI, including recognizing which Color matrix standard your TV supports(or at least reporinting on the matrix for the first time). Not sure how well it follows them. Typically ITU601 for SD and ITU709 for HD. L6.21 only rolled out recently, so when did you you notice the changes?


----------



## FarmerBob

tnsprin said:


> L6.21 did include some fixes for HDMI, including recognizing which Color matrix standard your TV supports(or at least reporinting on the matrix for the first time). Not sure how well it follows them. Typically ITU601 for SD and ITU709 for HD.


It also disabled picture settings that I was able to use in L6.18. In L6.18 it finally seeing more of the capability of my monitor (480i/p, 720i/p, 1080i/p24, 30, 60). So step by step.


> L6.21 only rolled out recently, so when did you you notice the changes?


From what it sounds like, I was one of the first to get L6.21. So I have had it for a while. But it's as if it took a while for the receiver to "settle" with the new software. But then, on DISH's end, they could be upgrading their transmissions to mesh with the newer software on a dual end attack. Or . . . since we have no control of software updating, I/we could have gotten revised versions without knowing it. Now that's a conspiracy theory.


----------



## kevin d

Can someone check another small problem? I think it might have been in the last version, but can't be sure. 

I use channel locks to get rid of the SD duplicates. I also set my channel order to ascending. When I went in to lock out the SD MSNBC, the channels were in ascending order like my guide, but it looks like the check boxes for the locked channels are in descending order. 

IE, the channels match the order in the guide, but it's showing a lot of channels as locked that aren't. I switched the channel order back to descending and the locked channels matched what was really locked. 

Locked MSNBC, saved, then switched back to ascending order. Everything seems fine, but I'm wondering what would have happened if I had tried to change the locks when they weren't matched up.

Kevin D.


----------



## Ron Barry

Farmer Bob... What picture settings did L6.21 disable for your? As for the silent update theory.. Yes definitely a conspiracy theory and one I can confidently say I doubt it would ever happen. 

Silently updating software can lead to a support nightmare and one a development organization would never want to do. You loose the ability to track issues when you do something like that. 

Even if they wanted to.. I don't think their distribution system would allow pushing the another version of software out with the same version number but maybe it would if it used something other than version to flag the update. 

Still even if they could.. My opinion is.. never would happen.. No reason to and history has shown that E* has at times made a quick fix to address one particular problem and when doing that they always up the version.


----------



## MrC

Agreed. And let's dismiss the "settle" theory. Hardware and software is not like cheese or wine - it doesn't change or "settle" with age. Sans hardware glitches (eg. bit flip), bugs, or viruses, it runs the same way, over and over, and over, and over...

There is too much voodoo ascribed to these systems.


----------



## TulsaOK

MrC said:


> Agreed. And let's dismiss the "settle" theory. Hardware and software is not like cheese or wine - it doesn't change or "settle" with age. Sans hardware glitches (eg. bit flip), bugs, or viruses, it runs the same way, over and over, and over, and over...
> 
> There is too much voodoo ascribed to these systems.


His statement was "But it's *as if* it took a while for the receiver to "settle" with the new software." Not a theory, just an observation.


----------



## darkstarchuck

darkstarchuck said:


> I'm having the same problem with the EHD on my 622. Had been, what I thought, issue free w/ 6.21, then I replaced my EHD, as the first 500MB HD was failing, with a new 1TB drive, now when I stop or pause, there's no pop-up, then I can't play or resume unless I skip forward or back. When I do FF to the end, I still cannot erase! I did copy a few shows from the old drive w/ restore function, then copy to the new drive. Maybe that has something to do with it? I'm ready to call tech support, I guess, cause I've tried several soft resets, and a hard one, too, to no avail.


 So, another power cord reset and that solved that. Now the only issue is sometimes I get a blank EHD menu with the correct remaining capacity shown.

Hopefully, it is the "sleep" feature of the Seagate that is causing the trouble, 'cause all I have to do is powercycle the drive and it comes right up.

Or could this be an issue with L6.21?


----------



## FarmerBob

Ron Barry said:


> Farmer Bob... What picture settings did L6.21 disable for your? As for the silent update theory.. Yes definitely a conspiracy theory and one I can confidently say I doubt it would ever happen.


Disabled was the HDMI Black Level Adjustment that I know for a fact worked under L6.18 and does with all my other HDMI inputs. During L6.18 I inquired about a very visible difference between OTA Direct and the 722 HDMI out, where DISH did tell me that there were PQ issues that were being worked on. This could be part of the fix. Hopefully, not all of it. Because it's not completely fixed yet. Also the in the HDMI Analysis screen the "Supported formats" (I hate when they don't cap all the words in a callout/header) listing has been truncated so I don't know all the formats that I now have supported where I did with L6.18.



> Silently updating software can lead to a support nightmare and one a development organization would never want to do. You loose the ability to track issues when you do something like that.


As far as Silent Updates, I was told, quite by accident on his part, in idle conversation with an Exec Tech that it is done. Whether or not it has been done lately only the software fairies will know. Also how do you think they get Beta software out to testers? Selective Distribution. That's why I mentioned it. I threw in the "conspiracy" part for fun.



> Even if they wanted to.. I don't think their distribution system would allow pushing the another version of software out with the same version number but maybe it would if it used something other than version to flag the update.


I think, or would expect that they have more control that you think. I have SFV: L621RJQD-N. If it were a finite version number, then why the suffix? What's yours? And now that I have documented it, I will be watching to see if that number changes, suffixwise. Also, they should have this on file in my account when we call? I would expect so. Then why do they always ask what SFV you have. If all the subscribers have the same version, other than to make sure it's not L6.18, then it's good to check. But that I would expect to be in my account info. Unless they don't have as sophisticated data melding as a company of this size with influential gear in the field.



> Still even if they could.. My opinion is.. never would happen.. No reason to and history has shown that E* has at times made a quick fix to address one particular problem and when doing that they always up the version.


Ya never know these days.

I'm not a DISH Virgin. I have been working with Charlie since he was selling C Band dishes out of a vacuum cleaner store. I have history with DISH on many levels over the past 20 years or so. In 1995, I had to do my own install because they did not do more than one box one TV. I had three boxes, nine TVs. So I am not pulling these comments out of the air and have had certain interaction that others may not have.

Oh and lately, of which I have an inquiry into DISH about, is that I am noticing quite a bit of motion pixilation that wasn't there before and not when I watch Locals OTA Direct. _AND_ while typing this I looked over my shoulder and the picture was stuttering on all channels. Had to do a front panel power cycle. All well now. For now.

So . . . 
. . . fb


----------



## Ron Barry

Ron Barry said:


> Silently updating software can lead to a support nightmare and one a development organization would never want to do. You loose the ability to track issues when you do something like that.





Farmer Bob said:


> As far as Silent Updates, I was told, quite by accident on his part, in idle conversation with an Exec Tech that it is done. Whether or not it has been done lately only the software fairies will know. Also how do you think they get Beta software out to testers? Selective Distribution. That's why I mentioned it. I threw in the "conspiracy" part for fun.


Selective Distribution is also how Dish rolls out software distribution in their normal procedure and really has nothing to do with performing a silent update in my opinion. The reason I mentioned the version number was because that is one way to trigger and update. Version numbers don't match then update receiver. Other methods could be done like Checksums etc but since I am not an engineer at E*, I can only speculate. As to the other part of the number... Well I am sure someone has figured it out. Perhaps it is the version of the piece of software responsible for loading the image.. I think that is called a bootloader. Been a while since i did embedded development as I know do Frontend UI development so I am sure someone will correct me if I am wondering too far off base.

Well of course you can choose to believe what you want. Personally I have a hard time believing Dish does silent updates and based on my last 6 years of hanging out here and posting in these support forums combined with my software background experience. I can say that over the years it has been brought up but general opinion of people with a software background around here is that it is very unlikely. Actually I believe there is a stat on the analysis page that indicates when the last software update occurred. Might want to look there to see if one happen the other night. That would prove your theory.

Well I think we are starting to wonder a bit off topic. As to black level adjustments.. Are you talking about an adjustment you can make in the 722 or an external adjustment that the receiver is no blocking you from doing?


----------



## Rakar

Pretty sure this is new:
DishOnline videos can be played from TV2 now. Before they would just show a black screen whenever I tried to play them. HD videos default to "zoom" formatting though and can't be changed.


----------



## tnsprin

FarmerBob said:


> ...
> I think, or would expect that they have more control that you think. I have SFV: L621RJQD-N. If it were a finite version number, then why the suffix? What's yours? And now that I have documented it, I will be watching to see .
> . . .


If you look at your hardware identification you will find part of it completely matches that suffix. They roll out a complete package for all machines. That package may or man not install different sub modules baseds on your machines hardware, or the same module may do different things based on different hardware version. Occasionally they have initially rolled out the new versions only to some machines by matching this hardware identification, but they always have eventually rolled out a version package for all machines.


----------



## smackman

I am still at SW L6.18. Did L6.21 stop spooling or is this a very slow roll out? 
Just wondering.


----------



## Ron Barry

Smackman... There was one post earlier that seem to indicate that L6.21 was targeted to all receiver that obviously is incorrect given people reporting that they have not received it yet. 

My best guess given that I have not heard anything in regards to opening up the release target is that they have either gone into a holding pattern to get more feedback or have held it up until they can make fixes that they feel must be made for full deployment. 

So short answer.... Don't know but does appear to have stopped.. Question is will it start up again or will there be a L6.22 at some point soon. That question I don't think anyone has an answer... Give the freeze issue reported here regarding My Groups I could see where they might want to hold off until they can address that one.


----------



## tymekeeper

smackman said:


> I am still at SW L6.18. Did L6.21 stop spooling or is this a very slow roll out?
> Just wondering.


I haven't gotten 6.21 on my vip 722 yet which at this point seems to be a good thing.


----------



## smackman

Ron Barry said:


> Smackman... There was one post earlier that seem to indicate that L6.21 was targeted to all receiver that obviously is incorrect given people reporting that they have not received it yet.
> 
> My best guess given that I have not heard anything in regards to opening up the release target is that they have either gone into a holding pattern to get more feedback or have held it up until they can make fixes that they feel must be made for full deployment.
> 
> So short answer.... Don't know but does appear to have stopped.. Question is will it start up again or will there be a L6.22 at some point soon. That question I don't think anyone has an answer... Give the freeze issue reported here regarding My Groups I could see where they might want to hold off until they can address that one.


Thanks a million!


----------



## Henry

smackman said:


> Thanks a million!


My 622 got it quite some time ago. I found that if I don't use any of the new options, my machine acts pretty close to normal. Of course given E*'s silence on the whole thing, I keep reading this thread for reports of fixes or other updates.


----------



## Kevin Brown

tymekeeper said:


> I haven't gotten 6.21 on my vip 722 yet which at this point seems to be a good thing.


+1.


----------



## teacher1066

+2


----------



## BillJ

Woke up this morning to find my bedroom 622 had decided to put black bars on the sides of both SD and HD channels on turner 2 (tuner 1 okay). That's something new, I thought. Then I remembered an early complaint about this happening with L6.21. Both my 622s have had L6.21 for a while but this is the first time I've seen a problem. I cycled through the format options and the problem went away. No idea what triggered it but at least it's easy to cure.


----------



## MSoper72

Has anyone noticed the difference in the sound from SD and HD? I seem to notice a Big difference. When I go from a HD channel to an SD. The volume is soo loud. That I'm going to be blasted into the next room. :eek2: However, when I turn the volume down in a SD channel and go back to a HD channel. You can not hear nothing and have to turn the volume back up. This has not happened until I got the new update. :nono2:


----------



## dbrakob

I noticed that ever since I got 6.21 we set our volume at 5 watching TV whereas we used to need 7.


----------



## Amon37

Mokanic said:


> I like the concept of Groups. But, I do not believe it is quite ready for general usage yet.
> 
> I have noticed two or three things that cause reboots. I'm sure these have already been discussed in depth. But basically, I can't touch what is being recorded. The one that is not in the group or even the group itself. I get reboot everytime I try to perform ANY function with the group if ANYTHING is being recorded that goes into that group. I can't even watch something else in that group while something entirely different is being recorded.
> I have had three reboots today while trying to watch, stop, or otherwise manipulate these groups or their recordings.
> 
> I will remove the groups from my receiver until I see better results from other firmware revisions.
> 
> Running;
> ViP622 / L621 /R0076182400-18
> 
> David


Having these exact issues on my 622


----------



## Ray_Schwarz

MSoper72 said:


> Has anyone noticed the difference in the sound from SD and HD? I seem to notice a Big difference. When I go from a HD channel to an SD. The volume is soo loud. That I'm going to be blasted into the next room. :eek2: However, when I turn the volume down in a SD channel and go back to a HD channel. You can not hear nothing and have to turn the volume back up. This has not happened until I got the new update. :nono2:


This issue has been reported to Dish Technical Support and they are working on a fix.


----------



## Ron Barry

Hmmm I have not noticed the sound issue. What I am confused about is that you should see a difference going from PCM to DD and that is what people usually experience when going from SD to HD. The fact that this has not happened prior to L6.21 has me thinking what configuration are you guys experiencing this with.. Do you have it directly connected to a TV or do are you pumping it through your receiver. Also what type of connection are you using to send your audio. Is it HDMI, RCA, or optical. Details would be helpful here as not everyone is reporting this.


----------



## Ray_Schwarz

Ron Barry said:


> Hmmm I have not noticed the sound issue. What I am confused about is that you should see a difference going from PCM to DD and that is what people usually experience when going from SD to HD. The fact that this has not happened prior to L6.21 has me thinking what configuration are you guys experiencing this with.. Do you have it directly connected to a TV or do are you pumping it through your receiver. Also what type of connection are you using to send your audio. Is it HDMI, RCA, or optical. Details would be helpful here as not everyone is reporting this.


All the HDMI sources are switched by the TV (Toshiba Ragza)
and output via toslink (optical) to a Sony Receiver. My wife likes the new 
sound levels and she listens directly to the Hitachi TV in her room which is hooked to a ViP622 via HDMI.


----------



## BillJ

BillJ said:


> Woke up this morning to find my bedroom 622 had decided to put black bars on the sides of both SD and HD channels on turner 2 (tuner 1 okay). That's something new, I thought. Then I remembered an early complaint about this happening with L6.21. Both my 622s have had L6.21 for a while but this is the first time I've seen a problem. I cycled through the format options and the problem went away. No idea what triggered it but at least it's easy to cure.


Crap! It happened again this morning. Only affects tuner 2. Annoying!


----------



## drewski11

722 is still on L6.18 

though the new 722k i got to upgrade my 625 is L6.52  it has teh Groups thing and the change to History not sure about other changes (I haven't seen the Playlist thing mentioned). might just be a different number sequence vs. the std 722. no issues so far!

fwiw, i'm in the San Francisco Bay Area


----------



## Ron Barry

welcome drewski11.. Though the 722K and the 722 use common code they are different release cycles and different versioning.


----------



## TulsaOK

Speaking of Playlist, what is it?


----------



## darkstarchuck

darkstarchuck said:


> So, another power cord reset and that solved that. Now the only issue is sometimes I get a blank EHD menu with the correct remaining capacity shown.
> 
> Hopefully, it is the "sleep" feature of the Seagate that is causing the trouble, 'cause all I have to do is powercycle the drive and it comes right up.
> 
> Or could this be an issue with L6.21?


Problem solved. Not part of the 6.21 update issues, just bad timing.


----------



## dbconsultant

Looked like we had a real problem but I stumbled over a fix for it.

We record a lot of dvr'd things on dvd (via the s-video) to take travelling. Our tv's (travel and home) are both 16x9. Ever since 6.21, the format of all the things we record has been squished and definitely not right. I thought it might be similar to what has happened to the tv2 connection and was defaulting to 4x3. I tried changing some settings on the dvd recorder - no luck, still bad. I went into the hdtv setup menu on the 622 and changed the aspect ratio to 4x3 and now the format looked right but we have 16x9 tv's so I knew I didn't want to leave it like that. I changed the aspect ratio back to 16x9 while I brooded about what I would need to do to make good recordings again and - voila! - the s-video format stayed in the correct ratio - no more smash!

Problem solved - whew! :joy:

Edit: Darn! Found that it reverted this morning to 4x3 formatting. I hope that I won't have to do this every time I want to record something! And this isn't even a tv2 connection - it's the s-video straight from the receiver to the dvd recorder. I would expect it's aspect ratio to be the same as the component or hdmi outputs.

Anyone else seeing this? I know few people use the s-video output but maybe someone could test this with their 622?


----------



## bigoldboy

To fix the 'letterbox' problem is easy. Us the PIP function to give you PIP, then do it again to get a larger box, then one more time to give it 'split screen' PIP. Then, when you hit it one last time you are back to single screen but it will be full 4x3 non-letterboxed screen. This works until the next time it goes to sleep. Not a big bother once you figure it out.


----------



## TulsaOK

bigoldboy said:


> To fix the 'letterbox' problem is easy. Us the PIP function to give you PIP, then do it again to get a larger box, then one more time to give it 'split screen' PIP. Then, when you hit it one last time you are back to single screen but it will be full 4x3 non-letterboxed screen. This works until the next time it goes to sleep. Not a big bother once you figure it out.


Or press Position twice.


----------



## rhdbs

I've noticed that my 722 which has 6.21 doesn't honor my setting to retain a maximum of 5 recordings for several of my timers. The other 722 @ 6.18 has always honored that setting.

FWIW, the timers are assigned to the 'News' group.


----------



## dbconsultant

bigoldboy said:


> To fix the 'letterbox' problem is easy. Us the PIP function to give you PIP, then do it again to get a larger box, then one more time to give it 'split screen' PIP. Then, when you hit it one last time you are back to single screen but it will be full 4x3 non-letterboxed screen. This works until the next time it goes to sleep. Not a big bother once you figure it out.





Kent Taylor said:


> Or press Position twice.


I'll try both methods but, since the 622 goes to sleep every night (correct?), this will be a big bother since we'll have to remember to do it every time we start recording for the day. We don't go to that output until the dvd is finished recording and we want to check it. :nono2:


----------



## tnsprin

dbconsultant said:


> I'll try both methods but, since the 622 goes to sleep every night (correct?), this will be a big bother since we'll have to remember to do it every time we start recording for the day. We don't go to that output until the dvd is finished recording and we want to check it. :nono2:


Does not influence recording at all. Its is just necessary at playback.


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## bbomar

moman19 said:


> Not sure this was observed and posted:
> 
> If I have saved several episodes of a particular event and I try to delete one (or several) on my 6.21 receiver, the event title still appears on MY RECORDINGS after I select DELETE. The event has been deleted but the screen requires refreshing to remove the listing. In the past, the event would properly vanish immediately after selecting DELETE.


I have also observed this on my 722 with L6.21. I will delete an episode and then go back to the list to view the next episode but it turns out it is the one I just deleted (still in the list, did not get removed). When I select the "deleted" episode it brings up a totally blank (white box) devoid of any information. If I exit completely out of the epsiode folder and then go back in the deleted episode is gone.


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## Ron Barry

Yep... I have also seen this one and added it to the list at top of this thread.


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## HobbyTalk

Luckily I have not been affected by (or have not noticed) most of the problems in previous releases but I have had a few with L6.21.

One I have (that I have not seen mentioned here) is 0 length recording. The recording shows in my list of recorded programs but with a 0:00 length. If I try to play it I just get a blank screen.

I have also had a few audio drop-outs before but nothing to really bother me. They have gotten much worse with L6.21 and I even get a brrrrip sound sometimes just before the drop-out.


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## HobbyTalk

I also notice that programs in process of being recorded are not showing up in my recorded list as in progress so there is no easy way to start at the beginning of a show already in progress.


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## FarmerBob

HobbyTalk said:


> I also notice that programs in process of being recorded are not showing up in my recorded list as in progress so there is no easy way to start at the beginning of a show already in progress.


I'm getting programs being recorded, but the red light on the front of the box not going on. I check "My Recordings" and the recordings are recording away and are there to view later.


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## TulsaOK

FarmerBob said:


> I'm getting programs being recorded, but the red light on the front of the box not going on. I check "My Recordings" and the recordings are recording away and are there to view later.


That usually calls for a reboot when possible. Have noticed this myself.


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## FarmerBob

Kent Taylor said:


> That usually calls for a reboot when possible. Have noticed this myself.


Since I wrote earlier, there was a break in recording. Now that is has started back up for the next batch the Red Light is on. But it makes you wonder why? And how many other little or large things are on the way . . . .

As long as my recordings are there when I go to watch, I'm cool. But once they aren't . . .


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## Henry

HobbyTalk said:


> I also notice that programs in process of being recorded are not showing up in my recorded list as in progress so there is no easy way to start at the beginning of a show already in progress.


Had the same thing happen to me last night. Both BBAD and Deadliest Catch were recording, but only Deadliest Catch was showing on the _My Recordings_ list. I went to _Schedule_ and it showed that both were recording. So I went back to_ Live TV_ were my 622 defaulted to BBAD. I was able to use the _Back_ button and rewind to the front-end of the buffer and see the show in progress from the beginning for a while. Satisfied that it was indeed recording my two events, I shut everything down and went to bed (read light was on).

This morning, the wife is all upset that BBAD apparently didn't record last night since it didn't show on the _My Recordings_ list. I went to _Schedule_ to see what had happened to the recording and the 622 showed that it had faithfully recorded the event.

With that, I concluded that the program was on the hard drive, but I didn't have a directory entry to access it. So the next logical step was to do a cold boot (remove power, wait 10/20-secs and replug). Which I did.

When the 622 re-booted, all entries were in_ My Recordings_ - including BBAD.


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## dbconsultant

dbconsultant said:


> Looked like we had a real problem but I stumbled over a fix for it.
> 
> We record a lot of dvr'd things on dvd (via the s-video) to take travelling. Our tv's (travel and home) are both 16x9. Ever since 6.21, the format of all the things we record has been squished and definitely not right. I thought it might be similar to what has happened to the tv2 connection and was defaulting to 4x3. I tried changing some settings on the dvd recorder - no luck, still bad. I went into the hdtv setup menu on the 622 and changed the aspect ratio to 4x3 and now the format looked right but we have 16x9 tv's so I knew I didn't want to leave it like that. I changed the aspect ratio back to 16x9 while I brooded about what I would need to do to make good recordings again and - voila! - the s-video format stayed in the correct ratio - no more smash!
> 
> Problem solved - whew! :joy:
> 
> Edit: Darn! Found that it reverted this morning to 4x3 formatting. I hope that I won't have to do this every time I want to record something! And this isn't even a tv2 connection - it's the s-video straight from the receiver to the dvd recorder. I would expect it's aspect ratio to be the same as the component or hdmi outputs.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this? I know few people use the s-video output but maybe someone could test this with their 622?





tnsprin said:


> Does not influence recording at all. Its is just necessary at playback.


Actually, it does influence recording. When playing back the dvd's recorded without fixing the aspect ratio (pushing position twice works but we have to remember to do it since we don't change the output viewed until the dvd has finished recording and needs to be checked) first look totally squished and, no matter what setting you change, cannot be viewed normally. Trust me, I tried everything to be able to watch them since we had deleted the programs that we had recorded. We've been recording dvr'd events for years and, when recording to a dvd, we've found that whatever format you see coming from the s-video output is how it is recorded on the dvd. WYSIWYG.

Hope they fix this in the next release. The format for the s-video should be the same as the other outputs for tv1.


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## tnsprin

dbconsultant said:


> Actually, it does influence recording. When playing back the dvd's recorded without fixing the aspect ratio (pushing position twice works but we have to remember to do it since we don't change the output viewed until the dvd has finished recording and needs to be checked) first look totally squished and, no matter what setting you change, cannot be viewed normally. Trust me, I tried everything to be able to watch them since we had deleted the programs that we had recorded. We've been recording dvr'd events for years and, when recording to a dvd, we've found that whatever format you see coming from the s-video output is how it is recorded on the dvd. WYSIWYG.
> 
> Hope they fix this in the next release. The format for the s-video should be the same as the other outputs for tv1.


Note my comment was about the DVR's recording not your recording from the SVHS TV1 output, which is DVR playback.


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## dbconsultant

tnsprin said:


> Note my comment was about the DVR's recording not your recording from the SVHS TV1 output, which is DVR playback.


I noted your comment but maybe I am misunderstanding your meaning. If I don't fix the aspect ratio prior to recording a dvr'd event to dvd, the dvd's recording looks exactly like what was on the screen - incorrect ratio. Playing back the dvd through our other dvd player, which is connected via hdmi to our widescreen still shows that incorrect ratio and nothing we can do after the fact fixes it.


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## articos

Noted the bugs listed on my 622 (the groups not updating deletion and the up/down not cycling from bottom to top in the button lists are both really annoying) but also noticing unpredictable behavior using 30 sec skip and back again. I've had this before in previous updates, but it's been fixed for ages - now since 6.21, my skip ahead sometimes results in going back several minutes, or not skipping ahead much at all, and skip back doesn't work reliably either. It's also intermittent - once it starts malfunctioning, it won't work reliably until I change to a different program, or go out of whatever DVR recording I'm watching or the receiver is turned off/reset. I'd say it's working normally 60-70% of the time, then the rest it's glitching. Anyone else?


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