# What do I do if the installer doesn't show up with 24 series boxes?



## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

Long time cable customer finally fed up with rising prices just ordered Directv. I know I should not have ordered from Directv if I expect certain equipment (or at least I know now after a bit of DBStalk reading  ).

I did ask the CSR on the order line if I could get HR24 and he said yes. But I know that don't amount to a hill of beans with the installer. I've seen the difference in responsiveness in the 24 vs. the older boxes all over youtube and I must say that the Wife Approval Factor would go right down the toilet if the box was any slower than our current cable dvr (pretty fast actually).

So what do I do if the installer shows up with something less than a 24?


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Just ask the installer. You may get lucky.

Good luck!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

give him a Jackson to compensate second look into his van


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

crashdumy said:


> So what do I do if the installer shows up with something less than a 24?


If you can't get an HR24 regardless of how you tempt the installer, then take whatever he provides. The HR20, HR21, HR22, HR23 and HR24 are all decent DVRs. They all work quite well. I've had a couple HR20's, I've got an HR21, two HR22's and an HR24. I really see very little difference in them in day to day use.

So my best advice is, if the installer shows up with something less, let him do the install and enjoy your new service.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

If you absolutely must have an HR24, then order one from a dealer (Solid Signal, Weaknees).


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## matt (Jan 12, 2010)

Throw a big fit, yell at the installer, reschedule a few times, call Ellen's office. You know, the usual.

The best solution I have seen it to cancel your order and go through a local retailer. If I known they honored D*'s specials and even refer a friend I would have done it that way for my parent's account.


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

Thanks everyone.

Would it help at all if I call ahead of time and remind them of my preference for a 24 series? Could they note it on the work order?

The guy who took the order did tell me that is what I'd get. I know he would have told me anything to get me me to sign up, but it is important to me. Maybe it's a bit overboard, but I think I would refuse installation if they couldn't get the 24. 

As it is, the first time the thing looses signal, I'll have to dodge the remote control headed for my skull. :blackeye: If the box is doggy all the time, I'll have 2 years to put up with a nasty glare. I'm really hoping the whole home DVR system will win the WAF.


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

Tell the installer that new accounts must be activated with new equipment(according to Directv) and any HR20 thru 23's by now are most likely recyled, poorly refurbed used equipment that does not meet the definition of new. :grin:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Call Directv and have them note in your notes on your work order that you want the Dispatcher to call you prior to coming and then give the CSR your phone number and they will call you and then you can communicate that you specifically want and need an HR24.

They will accomodate you if they can which just may be putting an HR24 on the truck if they have not already done so.


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

"richierich" said:


> Call Directv and have them note in your notes on your work order that you want the Dispatcher to call you prior to coming and then give the CSR your phone number and they will call you and then you can communicate that you specifically want and need an HR24.
> 
> They will accomodate you if they can which just may be putting an HR24 on the truck if they have not already done so.


I like the sound of this. I'll try and see what they say. A csr won't know anything, but to talk with the dispatch sounds like a good plan.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Sometimes it may not be on your work order and if not you want get it but the dispatcher knows this and can call Directv and have the Work Order modified so it includes whatever you need if possible and it is something you are allowed.


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

Just spoke with a very nice csr who put a note on the order what boxes I want and that they should call before they leave dispatch. He told me I should call again on the morning of install and they can email the local office reminding them to call before coming. Set for Saturday morning. Not sure what more I could do. I guess we'll see what happens.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

crashdumy said:


> Just spoke with a very nice csr who pure a note on the order what boxes I want and that they should call before they leave dispatch. He told me I should call again on the morning of install and they can email the local office reminding them to call before coming. Set for Saturday morning. Not sure what more I could do. I guess we'll see what happens.


You've been pacified. Welcome to our world. Those CSRs will tell you anything and then when the truck arrives the installer will know zip.

The odds on getting a 24 from a truck are really good in NJ. I've got yet to see a truck that had older models on it. The installers will usually take the path of least resistance and give you what they want.

By the way, a Benjamin is much more persuasive than a Jackson. Seriously. But wait until it comes down to what the installer wants to give you. If it's not what you want, lay the Benjamin on the table and just wait...

Rich


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

If you don't get what you want stay with cable. I have 3 HR20s and 2 HR21s and 1 H23 and they're all great. I have no desire for newer equipment. If you must have 24's then accept nothing less.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

crashdumy said:


> Just spoke with a very nice csr who pure a note on the order what boxes I want and that they should call before they leave dispatch. He told me I should call again on the morning of install and they can email the local office reminding them to call before coming. Set for Saturday morning. Not sure what more I could do. I guess we'll see what happens.


That will probably work as the Installer's Dispatcher has always called me first before sending out an installer as it is in their best interest to see what I want so they can have a Successful Install.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

carl6 said:


> If you can't get an HR24 regardless of how you tempt the installer, then take whatever he provides. The HR20, HR21, HR22, HR23 and HR24 are all decent DVRs. They all work quite well. I've had a couple HR20's, I've got an HR21, two HR22's and an HR24. I really see very little difference in them in day to day use.
> 
> So my best advice is, if the installer shows up with something less, let him do the install and enjoy your new service.


Ditto!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

carl6 said:


> ...The HR20, HR21, HR22, HR23 and HR24 are all decent DVRs. They all work quite well. I've had a couple HR20's, I've got an HR21, two HR22's and an HR24. I really see very little difference in them in day to day use.





RunnerFL said:


> Ditto!


Seriously?:eek2:

Even after DirecTV dumbed down the HR24s with their 'updates' in October my HR24s are still considerably faster than my HR22s.

Crashdumy - It is well worth telling the installer to come back with HR24s. It isn't like you just let them show up without telling them what you wanted. If they show up with something else I'd tell them to get lost and then find a local dealer that will install HR24s. Why would you want to start out in December of 2010 with old under-powered receivers from 2006/7/8? If they haven't fixed the sluggish troubles of the HR21\22\23 by now it isn't going to happen.

Hopefully you'll luck out and the installer will have HR24s anyway....

Good luck!


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## gfrang (Aug 30, 2007)

I feel it only matters if you spend more time changing channels then watching tv is what matters witch model dvr you get.


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## jdspencer (Nov 8, 2003)

If you're a new customer and order the Whole House DVR, then your odds are lot better for getting the HR24. I think I read that here somewhere. 

Also note that the HR22 and later have a larger hard drive.


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## nednarb (Nov 11, 2010)

This is just my opinion, but if you're a new customer this is your chance to start out right. D* isn't going to be upgrading any of your equipment anytime soon. So, why settle for anything less than the newest equipment they have to offer?

Also you only have that one last chance to cancel when the installer shows up. If you're not 100% happy then cancel.


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

"nednarb" said:


> This is just my opinion, but if you're a new customer this is your chance to start out right. D* isn't going to be upgrading any of your equipment anytime soon. So, why settle for anything less than the newest equipment they have to offer?
> 
> Also you only have that one last chance to cancel when the installer shows up. If you're not 100% happy then cancel.


Exactly. Once the installer leaves, I have zero power to get anything changed. If I hold my ground now, I might be able to ensure the latest equipment.


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

The tech will always call you as he's leaving his previous install. Check with him over the phone that he has HR24s on board before he comes to your house.


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

"TDK1044" said:


> The tech will always call you as he's leaving his previous install. Check with him over the phone that he has HR24s on board before he comes to your house.


Mine is scheduled for 8am - 12. Hope he calls before leaving the warehouse...


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Seriously?:eek2:
> 
> *Even after DirecTV dumbed down the HR24s with their 'updates' in October my HR24s are still considerably faster than my HR22s.*
> 
> ...


:lol: "dumbed down"

My HR24-500 is still rock solid. In fact, I cannot recall the last time I had an issue (other than BBCA and AMC having a real soft/blurry picture).


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

gfrang said:


> I feel it only matters if you spend more time changing channels then watching tv what model dvr you get.


+1000

This is actually a really good point lost on so many people.....


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Hutchinshouse said:


> :lol: "dumbed down"
> 
> My HR24-500 is still rock solid. In fact, I cannot recall the last time I had an issue (other than BBCA and AMC having a real soft/blurry picture).


By dumbed down I mean the 'updates' made things slower. The last update I got a couple of weeks ago did help a bit but all 3 of my HR24s will now just 'stop' for a second or two or three randomly. For example scrolling down the playlist it will just stop and then pick up again. It's not the end of the world and it is still much better than my HR22s but it is not as good as they were for the few months before they were 'dumbed down'! The pauses can happen just about anywhere so it makes you hit the remote button a few times and then all the button pushes get played out leaving you who knows where.....

How many updates have they done in the last two months anyway? Some a few days apart... Maybe they should test their updates before they send them out to the masses? I thought there was something called CE around here but maybe that's not as great as it once was?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

crashdumy said:


> Mine is scheduled for 8am - 12. Hope he calls before leaving the warehouse...


Hopefully he'll call but chances are he'll be at the door....

I've only had DirecTV out twice and both times they were supposed to call ahead - didn't call either time. The last guy that was out was much better than your average installer - but still didn't read the notes until he was out in front of my house.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> Maybe they should test their updates before they send them out to the masses? I thought there was something called CE around here but maybe that's not as great as it once was?


OUCH!!! :eek2:


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> By dumbed down I mean the 'updates' made things slower. The last update I got a couple of weeks ago did help a bit but all 3 of my HR24s will now just 'stop' for a second or two or three randomly. For example scrolling down the playlist it will just stop and then pick up again. It's not the end of the world and it is still much better than my HR22s but it is not as good as they were for the few months before they were 'dumbed down'! The pauses can happen just about anywhere so it makes you hit the remote button a few times and then all the button pushes get played out leaving you who knows where.....
> 
> How many updates have they done in the last two months anyway? Some a few days apart... Maybe they should test their updates before they send them out to the masses? I thought there was something called CE around here but maybe that's not as great as it once was?


I understand what you're saying. I thought it was a funny terminology. As for testing new software. I know it's put through the wringer before it's released. Overall I feel the HR series is solid. If you're getting tons of "pauses" try rebooting your DVR. You can also make sure the batteries in your remote are fresh too.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

gfrang said:


> I feel it only matters if you spend more time changing channels then watching tv what model dvr you get.


 Very true, and the HR20,1,2,3's are great boxes but the single downside is with the HR20,1,2,3's you are getting DVR's that have probably been in service for up to 5-6 years with a much more likely chance of failing (and losing your saved programs) then a model that is "new in the box" and only a few months old at most. Old hard drives statistically fail sooner then new ones and old electronics do as well although the hard-drives are major point of failure since they are mechanical.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Hutchinshouse said:


> I understand what you're saying. I thought it was a funny terminology. As for testing new software. I know it's put through the wringer before it's released. Overall I feel the HR series is solid. If you're getting tons of "pauses" try rebooting your DVR. You can also make sure the batteries in your remote are fresh too.


While I don't necassirly agree that 'the HR series is solid' I do think using the HR24 is much improved over earlier models. The trouble I've had with the "pauses" is on 3 of them and started with the updates and has improved with more recent firmware. Maybe when I get the latest firmware that is being sent out now it will be fix - who knows. I hope so!

Maybe the trouble with the CE testing is that the receivers get rebooted every week. They do seem to work better after restarting - maybe they should just build reboots in the their software so they reboot once a week....


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

TBlazer07 said:


> Very true, and the HR20,1,2,3's are great boxes but the single downside is with the HR20,1,2,3's you are getting DVR's that have probably been in service for up to 5-6 years with a much more likely chance of failing (and losing your saved programs) then a model that is "new in the box" and only a few months old at most. Old hard drives statistically fail sooner then new ones and old electronics do as well although the hard-drives are major point of failure since they are mechanical.


I agree that the 5 year old hard drives are more likely to fail but I don't agree that it is the 'single downside'. What about the speed improvement, remote response, DECA and smaller physical size of the HR24s?


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

UPDATE:

The installer just left. He did bring and HR24/100 and a H24/100. So I got the 24 series which he indicated is all he usually gets for whole house DVR installs. Thanks to all for the advise. 

Not sure what the /100 is all about. They seem reasonably fast through the guide, so that is good.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Seriously?:eek2:
> 
> Even after DirecTV dumbed down the HR24s with their 'updates' in October my HR24s are still considerably faster than my HR22s.
> 
> ...


Yes seriously. One of the rudest things you can do is waste someone else's time and cause them to lose money in the process. Doing so is one of the most self-centered things a person could ever do.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

crashdumy said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> The installer just left. He did bring and HR24/100 and a H24/100. So I got the 24 series which he indicated is all he usually gets for whole house DVR installs. Thanks to all for the advise.
> 
> Not sure what the /100 is all about. They seem reasonably fast through the guide, so that is good.


The last three digits of the model number denote the manufacturer.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

crashdumy said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> The installer just left. He did bring and HR24/100 and a H24/100. So I got the 24 series which he indicated is all he usually gets for whole house DVR installs. Thanks to all for the advise.
> 
> Not sure what the /100 is all about. They seem reasonably fast through the guide, so that is good.


Congrats!

The -100 is the manufacturer code.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The last 3 digits denote the Manufacturer of the DVR/Receiver. These were Posted by Litzdog911.

-100 - Thomson/Technicolor (formerly RCA)
-200 - Samsung
-250 - TiVo (no longer active)
-300 - Pace (formerly Philips)
-400 - Hughes (no longer active)
-500 - Humax
-600 - LG
-700 - Pace
-800 - NEC


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Yes seriously. One of the rudest things you can do is waste someone else's time and cause them to lose money in the process. Doing so is one of the most self-centered things a person could ever do.


How about all the folks who take a day off from work after they are promised 24s and then get some other HR? They've been lied to, probably lost more money than an installer makes. Are they just supposed to lie down and accept a lesser device than the one they were promised? I agree it's probably not the installers fault, but that's not the point, is it?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> How about all the folks who take a day off from work after they are promised 24s and then get some other HR? They've been lied to, probably lost more money than an installer makes. Are they just supposed to lie down and accept a lesser device than the one they were promised? I agree it's probably not the installers fault, but that's not the point, is it?


If they make more money than the installer odds are they get paid days off.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> If they make more money than the installer odds are they get paid days off.


I did, but the people that worked for me didn't. Very few blue collar workers get paid if they don't go to work. And wasting a vacation day and not getting what you are promised is just as bad as not getting paid for the day. I see nothing rude about not accepting anything but what I was promised. "I'll put that in the notes" doesn't mean what they imply and they know it when they say it.

Knowing that, I always call the installer before they come out, but not everybody knows to do that. We all know that, but the people getting new, first time, installs and think they are getting the best of the HRs are at times sadly disappointed. Doesn't seem to be happening as much as it was, but I'm sure it still happens.

I've followed Mike's story from when he first got his three 22-100s and I can't blame him for feeling the way he does. And he's certainly not rude, just mildly outraged. He's hung in and tried to work his way thru, usually with a good sense of humor.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I did, but the people that worked for me didn't. Very few blue collar workers get paid if they don't go to work. And wasting a vacation day and not getting what you are promised is just as bad as not getting paid for the day. I see nothing rude about not accepting anything but what I was promised. "I'll put that in the notes" doesn't mean what they imply and they know it when they say it.
> 
> Knowing that, I always call the installer before they come out, but not everybody knows to do that. We all know that, but the people getting new, first time, installs and think they are getting the best of the HRs are at times sadly disappointed. Doesn't seem to be happening as much as it was, but I'm sure it still happens.
> 
> ...


New customers wouldn't know an HR20 from an HR24 unless they come here and if they come here and read they'll see that new customers getting whole home get 24's. There's no need to cost a hard worker his wages just because you have to have the newest DVR, they all do the same thing.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> New customers wouldn't know an HR20 from an HR24 unless they come here and if they come here and read they'll see that new customers getting whole home get 24's. There's no need to cost a hard worker his wages just because you have to have the newest DVR, they all do the same thing.


Please don't tell me they are all the same. There's a reason I've got eight 20-700s. If I would have had to pay for my 24s, I wouldn't have them either, I would have waited. Aside from them, the 21-700 and the 21-200 are the only other HRs I would have. And both of them are a lot slower than my 20-700s.

Rich


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> ... There's a reason I've got eight 20-700s. ...
> 
> Rich


Yes, the reasons are personal preference, obsession, compulsion, etc. I don't mean these as a negative or degrading way. Many people have obsessions for things, myself included.


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

Last 3 digits are manufacturer. Ahh...Wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks.

I'll do some forum searching later, but if nobody minds me stretching the topic a bit... here are a couple quick questions I'm left with. Each of these boxes has an Ethernet and USB ports. 

What can I do if the ethernet is connected that I can't do with the cinema thingy adapter already connected?

And what can u do at all with USB? I assume this would expand storage on the dvr (or do I have to use esata for that?). But what would it do on the h24?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Ethernet - for MRV, Home DVR setup; USB - for PC control.


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## raoul5788 (May 14, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Ethernet - for MVR Home DVR setup; USB - for PC control.


How can you use the usb port for pc control? I thought the only use was as a power supply for an AM21, fan, cell phone or similar.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Yes, the reasons are personal preference, obsession, compulsion, etc. I don't mean these as a negative or degrading way. Many people have obsessions for things, myself included.


I really think the 20-700s are a better HR (if you can find one that works properly) than the rest of them, at the moment. Hopefully the 24 will evolve quickly and all the little problems will be solved. Then I'll be happy to retire my 20-700s. I just want dependability. Just for a year or so. Then all 24s, hopefully.

Rich


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Please don't tell me they are all the same. There's a reason I've got eight 20-700s. If I would have had to pay for my 24s, I wouldn't have them either, I would have waited. Aside from them, the 21-700 and the 21-200 are the only other HRs I would have. And both of them are a lot slower than my 20-700s.
> 
> Rich


Hate to break it to you but they are all the same. No one HR has a function that another HR doesn't have.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Hate to break it to you but they are all the same. No one HR has a function that another HR doesn't have.


When did the 21 - 24's get OTA capability?


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

mx6bfast said:


> When did the 21 - 24's get OTA capability?


When they created the AM-21? :lol:


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

raoul5788 said:


> How can you use the usb port for pc control? I thought the only use was as a power supply for an AM21, fan, cell phone or similar.


Use UBS-Serial dongle and DTVControl SW by Kevin Timmerman.


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## crashdumy (May 14, 2007)

"P Smith" said:


> Ethernet - for MRV, Home DVR setup; USB - for PC control.


Not sure what any of this is. But I think I need it. 

Home dvr setup, is this different than the whole house system already in place?


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> When they created the AM-21? :lol:


But is the AM is not the HR. Exactly the reasons why I kept my HR20's.


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Mike Greer said:


> I agree that the 5 year old hard drives are more likely to fail but I don't agree that it is the 'single downside'. What about the speed improvement, remote response, DECA and smaller physical size of the HR24s?


 For me it's the single downside. The speed of my HR20's are way more than acceptable. I spend very little time paging through the guide and use the remote usually once every hour. If it takes 1 seconds or 3 seconds I really don't care once an hour.

Deca works fine on the 20's. As for the smaller size .... if it matters, guess you got me there although I've always been told bigger is better. :lol:


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

raoul5788 said:


> How can you use the usb port for pc control? I thought the only use was as a power supply for an AM21, fan, cell phone or similar.


DirecTV has for quite a few years supported RS232 serial control of their receivers and DVRs. It is primarily to support high-end home control/automation systems. Older units had actual RS232 serial ports. Newer units don't, but do have the USB port, which when used with a USB to RS232 serial adapter still permit that control.

As IP control is developed, I would expect RS232 support to eventually be of less concern.


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## MikeS. (Dec 4, 2010)

My HR install is scheduled for noon - 4pm Monday. I'm more concerned that the installer gets there on a timely fashion over which box he brings me. Although if he doesn't bring in a 24 i'll be sure to ask for one.

Best Buy was scheduled to deliver my new TV at 0800 Friday. They actually showed up at 0745. That was nice.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> When they created the AM-21? :lol:


Exactly!


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

mx6bfast said:


> But is the AM is not the HR. Exactly the reasons why I kept my HR20's.


But it gives the HR OTA which makes it functionally identical to an HR20.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> But it gives the HR OTA which makes it functionally identical to an HR20.


You are such a proponent of the provider...

["Only painters and lawyers can turn white to black"]


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Hate to break it to you but they are all the same. No one HR has a function that another HR doesn't have.


"Each HR has the same functionality." I agree. It's how they perform those functions that matter. That's where the differences are.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> You are such a proponent of the provider...
> 
> ["Only painters and lawyers can turn white to black"]


Pete!!! Finally something we agree on!

Rich


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)




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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> But it gives the HR OTA which makes it functionally identical to an HR20.


Years ago I became a "certified test constructor". I had to fly to Texas and go thru a week of intensive training to become certified by the corporation I worked for.

That title meant that I could construct tests with questions and answers that would hold up in court. None of your arguments would meet that criteria, especially the one above.

Just off the top of my head I could give you a bunch of examples of functionally equal devices that don't perform equally. Your user name would lead me to believe that you're a runner of some sort. If you are, you're functionally equal to any Olympic runner, as is any other person that can run, but do you seriously think that you are as fast as ANY living Olympic runner? Do you seriously think a 22-100 is the operational equivalent of a 24 or even a 20-700?

Rich


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## jsk (Dec 27, 2006)

When I upgraded my E* receiver, I called a local reseller, they said that they had the 722K in stock and would make sure that I received one of them. Then, I had to call E* and ask for that reseller. The installer arrived with a 722K.

I would imagine that D* would be similar.


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## mx6bfast (Nov 8, 2006)

The 20's have a different functionality that the 21 - 24's will not be able to have, unless you want to spend money to purchase the AM-21 for OTA. Take away the AM-21, and there is a difference in them.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Years ago I became a "certified test constructor". I had to fly to Texas and go thru a week of intensive training to become certified by the corporation I worked for.
> 
> That title meant that I could construct tests with questions and answers that would hold up in court. None of your arguments would meet that criteria, especially the one above.
> 
> ...


Performance differences are NOT the same as functional differences. There are no functional differences between the HR's period. One shouldn't act like a 6 year old just because he/she doesn't get what he wants. Installers work their asses off, more than some of us who complain, and deserve their money. They don't deserve to get cheated out of a few hours pay because someone wants to be a child. You will never convince me that screwing another human being is a cool thing to do.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

P Smith said:


> You are such a proponent of the provider...
> 
> ["Only painters and lawyers can turn white to black"]


This has nothing to do with being on the side of the provider or not and everything to do with not screwing your fellow man.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Performance differences are NOT the same as functional differences. There are no functional differences between the HR's period. One shouldn't act like a 6 year old just because he/she doesn't get what he wants. Installers work their asses off, more than some of us who complain, and deserve their money. They don't deserve to get cheated out of a few hours pay because someone wants to be a child. You will never convince me that screwing another human being is a cool thing to do.


I never tried to convince you that screwing another human being is a cool thing to do. Neither did *Mike Greer*. Twisting words because you've run out of rational arguments is not an intelligent thing to do. I'm pretty sure you know what I was talking about, just as you know the member that pointed out that some HRs have OTA ability without adding something to them was right and proved your argument about each HR being functionally equal was wrong. If you want to argue semantics, fine. If you want to twist members words to win an argument that's not fine.

Don't forget, you're the same person that insisted that any 21 that read 77 degrees with an external device attached was "defective". You were wrong about that and you never admitted that.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> This has nothing to do with being on the side of the provider or not and everything to do with not screwing your fellow man.


I can't imagine anybody reading your posts disagreeing with *P Smith*. Gotta give him credit for using the word "proponent", I would have used "shill". And I would have thrown in "blatant" as well.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mx6bfast said:


> The 20's have a different functionality that the 21 - 24's will not be able to have, unless you want to spend money to purchase the AM-21 for OTA. Take away the AM-21, and there is a difference in them.


Yup, you're quite correct. But you'll never win that argument with him.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

mx6bfast said:


> The 20's have a different functionality that the 21 - 24's will not be able to have, unless you want to spend money to purchase the AM-21 for OTA. Take away the AM-21, and there is a difference in them.


Yes, there is a difference but he won't admit it as most people don't want to admit they have made a mistake even after being confronted with The Truth!!! :hurah:


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I never tried to convince you that screwing another human being is a cool thing to do.


Yet you advocate sending an installer away if he doesn't have the HR you want?



rich584 said:


> Twisting words because you've run out of rational arguments is not an intelligent thing to do. I'm pretty sure you know what I was talking about, just as you know the member that pointed out that some HRs have OTA ability without adding something to them was right and proved your argument about each HR being functionally equal was wrong. If you want to argue semantics, fine. If you want to twist members words to win an argument that's not fine.


I'm not twisting words at all. No one proved any argument about them being functionally identical wrong, because they are functionally identical. If you add an AM21 to a 21 or newer it's the same as an HR20. Name one function that one HR has that another does not. Go ahead, just one...



rich584 said:


> Don't forget, you're the same person that insisted that any 21 that read 77 degrees with an external device attached was "defective". You were wrong about that and you never admitted that.


I believe you have me confused with someone else.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I can't imagine anybody reading your posts disagreeing with *P Smith*. Gotta give him credit for using the word "proponent", I would have used "shill". And I would have thrown in "blatant" as well.


And again you couldn't be more wrong...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

richierich said:


> Yes, there is a difference but he won't admit it as most people don't want to admit they have made a mistake even after being confronted with The Truth!!! :hurah:


I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but I'm not now.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

I wouldn’t want to cause the installer grief but the installers have chosen to work for DirecTV and it is DirecTV’s asinine policies that are the problem.

If someone requests an HR24 and to have the installer call before he comes out and then he shows up with a very used HR22 without calling who is at fault? Certainly not the customer that placed the order and was told the installer would call beforehand?

As far as always siding with DirecTV goes…. There are a certain few people here that no matter the facts and no matter the trouble they will always come down on the side of protecting DirecTV. I don’t know the motives and don’t really care but for people that have been around here for any length of time it is very apparent who those people are.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> If someone requests an HR24 and to have the installer call before he comes out and then he shows up with a very used HR22 without calling who is at fault?


You cannot request a specific model. If you want a specific model, acquire it yourself. If you don't like that..take your business elsewhere.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Hoosier205 said:


> You cannot request a specific model.


Then why do DirecTV CSR's put the request in the order notes?


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Then why do DirecTV CSR's put the request in the order notes?


To calm whiny customers who believe they need a specific model when they do not. It's only a note. It is not an order for a specific model. It's simply noted as a preference.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

The point is that the customer CAN REQUEST A SPECIFIC MODEL. Whether or not DirecTV chooses to honor that request is another matter, but the customer CAN MAKE THE REQUEST.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I wouldn't want to cause the installer grief but the installers have chosen to work for DirecTV and it is DirecTV's asinine policies that are the problem.
> 
> If someone requests an HR24 and to have the installer call before he comes out and then he shows up with a very used HR22 without calling who is at fault? Certainly not the customer that placed the order and was told the installer would call beforehand?
> ...


Typing this hurts, but here goes...I agree with Mike. 

If the customer let's it be known that he will refuse anything but a 24, then it's up to DirecTV to note it. If the customer expects the 24 without telling them, then it's his/her fault and a jerk move to turn them away. Although, it's still their right to do so...jerkish or not.

However, for anyone here who reads the forum: You should know how to get the 24 & do it that way...Not by screwing around with hoping a CSR _notes it_, or hoping for a miracle they'll send one.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> The point is that the customer CAN REQUEST A SPECIFIC MODEL. Whether or not DirecTV chooses to honor that request is another matter, but the customer CAN MAKE THE REQUEST.


The customer can whine until a note is applied. Is a promise being made to deliver a specific model? No. No order is placed for a specific model. If you want a specific model, either keep your fingers crossed or acquire one yourself. DirecTV's polices are their own. If you wish to establish different policies, form your own satellite television provider. Discussing it further is a waste of time.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Then why do DirecTV CSR's put the request in the order notes?


They put it in the Notes to Alert the Installer's Dispatcher as to what exactly the Customer wants and the Dispatcher will do what he can to accomodate the Request if possible and reasonable.

I have used this method several times and I have always been successful.

It also saves a trip for the Installer because it allows him to equip his truck with whatever you need. I had to explain to a Dispatcher what I was trying to do and he stated that was not what the Work Order stated so I called Directv back and got the Work Order changed and then called him back and everything went perfectly from that point on.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Of course we are completely missing the point that this only applies to instances where a technician is installing equipment and not when a customer is upgrading/replacing an existing HD-DVR.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

The point is that "*You cannot request a specific model*" is a false statement.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Barry in Conyers said:


> The point is that "*You cannot request a specific model*" is a false statement.


+1. You can Request it as I have done it several times with Great Success but you just have to work with Directv and their CSRs and the Installer's Dispatcher (Mastec in my case). He even gave me his phone number and extension and we got together and got what I wanted with no problem other than having to communicate what I was doing and trying to accomplish.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> The point is that "*You cannot request a specific model*" is a false statement.


 Apparently this discussion is difficult for you to follow. If you want a specific model, acquire one yourself. A note is not a formal request. The formal request is the equipment order, which will not be for a specific model.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> You cannot request a specific model. If you want a specific model, acquire it yourself. If you don't like that..take your business elsewhere.


Give me a break&#8230; You CAN request a specific model. DirecTV may or may not grant your request but the CSRs are more than happy to put notes on the order. If an installer doesn't read the notes then it is the installer's mistake.

If the installer reads the notes, doesn't have any HR24s and calls ahead the customer can decide on going ahead with the install of a used older model receiver or not.

Somewhere in all of this I think some people are missing the point that when someone orders DirecTV service - it is a good thing for DirecTV. Maybe DirecTV doesn't want a new customer if they have the sense to educate themselves before the install? Even with all my *****ing I assume that DirecTV is happy to get my $180 a month right? Or maybe I should take my business elsewhere?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

sigma1914 said:


> Typing this hurts, but here goes...I agree with Mike.
> 
> If the customer let's it be known that he will refuse anything but a 24, then it's up to DirecTV to note it. If the customer expects the 24 without telling them, then it's his/her fault and a jerk move to turn them away. Although, it's still their right to do so...jerkish or not.
> 
> However, for anyone here who reads the forum: You should know how to get the 24 & do it that way...Not by screwing around with hoping a CSR _notes it_, or hoping for a miracle they'll send one.


Wow, I didn't see that coming!:lol:


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## BKC (Dec 12, 2007)

I called my car dealer last week and ordered a new car. He promised me he had the model in stock and I would get that model and color. Today the guy he sent showed up with a 10 year old beat up car but I took it anyway because I didn't want to screw over his delivery man........


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

BKC said:


> I called my car dealer last week and ordered a new car. He promised me he had the model in stock and I would get that model and color. Today the guy he sent showed up with a 10 year old beat up car but I took it anyway because I didn't want to screw over his delivery man........


Now, you are a Good Sport. That is the Proper Attitude to have in Life and Enjoy your New Old Car!!!

Hey, did it come with a New Warranty??? :lol:


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## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

richierich said:


> Hey, did it come with a New Warranty??? :lol:


No, it came with a 2 yr commitment


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I wouldn't want to cause the installer grief but the installers have chosen to work for DirecTV and it is DirecTV's asinine policies that are the problem.


So because they've chosen to work for a company who does installs for DirecTV you don't mind screwing them out of money? Nice...



Mike Greer said:


> If someone requests an HR24 and to have the installer call before he comes out and then he shows up with a very used HR22 without calling who is at fault? Certainly not the customer that placed the order and was told the installer would call beforehand?


As it has been pointed out here hundreds, if not thousands, of times you are not guaranteed a certain model number. Sorry you have such a problem with the rules but they are the rules.



Mike Greer said:


> As far as always siding with DirecTV goes&#8230;. There are a certain few people here that no matter the facts and no matter the trouble they will always come down on the side of protecting DirecTV.


And I am not one of those. If you actually read other posts from me you'd see that I've slammed DirecTV numerous times for bonehead moves. Do I agree with not being able to specify which model you get? NO! But there's no reason a hard working installer should get screwed because of DirecTV's rule and the customer wanting to be a child.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Then why do DirecTV CSR's put the request in the order notes?


To placate the children who throw tantrums.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

BKC said:


> I called my car dealer last week and ordered a new car. He promised me he had the model in stock and I would get that model and color. Today the guy he sent showed up with a 10 year old beat up car but I took it anyway because I didn't want to screw over his delivery man........


You're comparing apples to footballs here.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> ...
> And I am not one of those. ...


Internet is great to be an anonymous, present yourself as you wish, but it's also hard to defend yourself especially if you siding with a company against customers in such 'battle'.
We don't know your affiliation with DTV, you could be one from its PR Dept and there no way to prove or disprove it.
But the thread definitely reveal your pro-DTV skew.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

P Smith said:


> Internet is great to be an anonymous, present yourself as you wish, but it's also hard to defend yourself especially if you siding with a company against customers in such 'battle'.
> We don't know your affiliation with DTV, you could be one from its PR Dept and there no way to prove or disprove it.
> But the thread definitely reveal your pro-DTV skew.


:lol::lol::lol: Now that's funny. You can't win the argument so you attack instead.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Internet is great to be an anonymous, present yourself as you wish, but it's also hard to defend yourself especially if you siding with a company against customers in such 'battle'.
> We don't know your affiliation with DTV, you could be one from its PR Dept and there no way to prove or disprove it.
> But the thread definitely reveal your pro-DTV skew.


You may want to read my posts again, including the one you quoted. Had you quoted it all you'd have seen where I said "Do I agree with not being able to specify which model you get? NO!". Now how is that siding with a company against customers? I'll answer it for you, it's NOT.

Oh, and I don't work for DirecTV... If you actually followed my posts you'd know what I do for a living because I've stated it several times over the years.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Hoosier205 said:


> :lol::lol::lol: Now that's funny. You can't win the argument so you attack instead.


That's how most 6 year olds act.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

RunnerFL said:


> That's how most 6 year olds act.


Then we are both will meet in sandbox today.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Yet you advocate sending an installer away if he doesn't have the HR you want?


Would you care to show me where on this thread I advocated turning an installer away?



> I'm not twisting words at all.


See the above comment. Where did you get the idea I advocated sending an installer away? I did not and you twisted my posts to fit your argument.



> No one proved any argument about them being functionally identical wrong, because they are functionally identical. If you add an AM21 to a 21 or newer it's the same as an HR20. Name one function that one HR has that another does not. Go ahead, just one...


Put a stock 20-700 next to a stock 21 and show me how you hook up an antenna to the 21. I just did that and I don't see a way to do it. I used my 21-700. Yes, you can add the OTA function, but to do it you have to add to the functions of the stock 21. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

I don't believe that anyone but you brought up the "equal functions" argument in this thread. Even *Mike Greer* was talking about the performance of his HRs, or the lack thereof.



> I believe you have me confused with someone else.


I might have you confused with someone else, but I don't think so. I'll try to find that thread with those posts. That was about two years ago and I wrote some keywords in my posts that I should be able to search for.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I believe you have me confused with someone else.


I just did several searches and I can't find the comment. By anybody.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

Not to hurt any feelings however:
When it comes to screwing the installer or screwing myself you can guess who wins and who loses.

Do all DirecTV installers not call before driving over? I would hope so. No answer = no drive there.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Then why do DirecTV CSR's put the request in the order notes?


Pacification of the customer. Makes the customer think he or she is getting what they want and the CSR gets to get off the phone.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> Not to hurt any feelings however:
> When it comes to screwing the installer or screwing myself you can guess who wins and who loses.
> 
> Do all DirecTV installers not call before driving over? I would hope so. No answer = no drive there.


I usually get a call the day before an installer or the one tech in my area comes over and I go over the info that D* has given the contractor and it's usually not what I was told. Even by the PP CSRs. But I get sent straight to the Case Management Group when I have a problem now and they usually get the work orders right. Only had one installer that the CMG sent out that had wrong info on the work order. I didn't get a call that time from the contractor, but we straightened that out. The work order called for an 18" dish and I was supposed to get a 5LNB dish. They cobbled one together from parts they had in the truck.

That was on Memorial Day a couple years ago. I would have sent them away, I had no use for an 18" dish. Wasn't their fault, but they got it fixed and went away with a nice tip.

Rich


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

TBoneit said:


> Not to hurt any feelings however:
> When it comes to screwing the installer or screwing myself you can guess who wins and who loses.
> 
> Do all DirecTV installers not call before driving over? I would hope so. No answer = no drive there.


I rarely call anymore.

More often than not:

The number is disconnected
No answer
Goes straight to voice mail
Goes straight to voice mail, but voice mail full

If your expecting someone to call, you damn well better answer the phone. I've had people get pissy when they say I didn't call. I then show them the call log with several attempts calling them. They STFU then.

It's sad that those that have the money are always trying to screw those trying to make theirs out of it. 

You (generally speaking) pull this crap on me, I will never do any service for you in the future.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Would you care to show me where on this thread I advocated turning an installer away?


http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2646573&postcount=13

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2649219&postcount=38

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2649263&postcount=40



rich584 said:


> See the above comment. Where did you get the idea I advocated sending an installer away? I did not and you twisted my posts to fit your argument.


See above links where you agree with sending the installer away. Your own words, no twists at all.



rich584 said:


> Put a stock 20-700 next to a stock 21 and show me how you hook up an antenna to the 21. I just did that and I don't see a way to do it. I used my 21-700. Yes, you can add the OTA function, but to do it you have to add to the functions of the stock 21. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?


Your argument holds no water... If you're given a 21 to replace a 20 DirecTV will give you an AM-21, if you ask nicely, so that you get your OTA back.



rich584 said:


> I don't believe that anyone but you brought up the "equal functions" argument in this thread. Even *Mike Greer* was talking about the performance of his HRs, or the lack thereof.


And they perform the same. Again, name one function that an HR24 has that a 20, 21, 22 or 23 doesn't.



rich584 said:


> I might have you confused with someone else, but I don't think so. I'll try to find that thread with those posts. That was about two years ago and I wrote some keywords in my posts that I should be able to search for.


You do have me confused with someone else.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> I just did several searches and I can't find the comment. By anybody.


Someone may have said it, but that person was not me.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

RobertE said:


> It's sad that those that have the money are always trying to screw those trying to make theirs out of it.


I completely agree however there are some very self-centered people here who do not agree and will try to make you out to look like a monster for saying so.



RobertE said:


> You (generally speaking) pull this crap on me, I will never do any service for you in the future.


Sounds fair to me.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> So because they've chosen to work for a company who does installs for DirecTV you don't mind screwing them out of money? Nice....


I didn't say that and I don't think it is ok to screw anyone. If I order my new DirecTV service and the notes say I don't want old, slow, used equipment and that the installer should call before the install and none of that happens who is doing the screwing? Why shouldn't the installer read the freakin' notes before he is knocking at the door?



RunnerFL said:


> As it has been pointed out here hundreds, if not thousands, of times you are not guaranteed a certain model number. Sorry you have such a problem with the rules but they are the rules..


I have never claimed the rules were any different. If an educated new sub wants HR24s and DirecTV can't figure out how to do it that is DirecTV's problem not the guy that just want's to be a paying customer.



RunnerFL said:


> And I am not one of those. If you actually read other posts from me you'd see that I've slammed DirecTV numerous times for bonehead moves. Do I agree with not being able to specify which model you get? NO! But there's no reason a hard working installer should get screwed because of DirecTV's rule and the customer wanting to be a child.


I've read lots of your posts and good many are on the "customer is to blame" side but I have also seen you be a little critical here and there I do admit. It just seems a little nuts to claim that I'm even suggesting 'screwing' the installers is ok. DirecTV is the one screwing the installers.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I didn't say that and I don't think it is ok to screw anyone. If I order my new DirecTV service and the notes say I don't want old, slow, used equipment and that the installer should call before the install and none of that happens who is doing the screwing? Why shouldn't the installer read the freakin' notes before he is knocking at the door?


Depending on how and where these worthless notes are entered, they may not even show up on the techs paperwork.

Why do I say the notes are worthless? Because more times that not, they are. I've seen notes such as:

40ft ladder needed...for a single wide trailer.
Bring pole...for an apartment install on a 20+ story building, customer was not on 1st floor.
Call first...but only 9 digits listed
Must be 1st stop of the day...in a 4-8pm timeframe

I could go one. Notes have ZERO value for what actually gets installed. If it's not a line item, it's not going to get done.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

The Notes are not Worthless if it states to call the Customer first so you don't have a bad install. I have communicated with the Dispatcher and got the Work Order straightened out so that the Installer didn't waste his time or mine (I had taken off work) so everybody wins if the Notes are looked at and if not then the Installer should eat the cost of bad or missed install.

There is nothing wrong with making sure everyone is singing from the same song book on the same page.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RobertE said:


> I rarely call anymore.
> 
> You (generally speaking) pull this crap on me, I will never do any service for you in the future.


I think I can assume from your posts here that you are smart enough to read the notes before you are in the driveway?

By "pull this crap on me" do you mean if the notes say the customer will only take HR24s and that you should call ahead they are trying to screw you out of something? I hope not....


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

We now have 5 pages of rollercoaster emotions over this topic......which could all have been avoided if 21's, 22's and 23's weren't sent out anymore. My .02 cents. :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

codespy said:


> We now have 5 pages of rollercoaster emotions over this topic......which could all have been avoided if 21's, 22's and 23's weren't sent out anymore. My .02 cents. :lol:


EXACTLY!!! Those DVRs were underpowered anyway so that is why Directv is slowly replacing them with the better, faster HR24s as Directv knows they had a slow CPU and not enough RAM to handle everything that has been thrown at these older boxes.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

The entire discussion is pointless.  They cannot guarantee a specific model. You can whine until you get a note added, but it its only that...a note. A mere mention of the request to get the overly demanding customer off the phone. It's not an order. It's not a guarantee. If you want a specific model, acquire one yourself. If you don't like that, take your business elsewhere.

People are already complaining about the cost of service and next year's price increases. They'd really be ticked off if they say how much more they would pay if all receivers except the 24's were discontinued in mass.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

codespy said:


> We now have 5 pages of rollercoaster emotions over this topic......which could all have been avoided if 21's, 22's and 23's weren't sent out anymore. My .02 cents. :lol:


I'd love nothing more than all the HR21/22/23s to be sent back to hell (that's where they came from!) but that's not going to happen. DirecTV isn't going to junk them just because they are slow and responding to the remote is an 'optional' feature!:lol:


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I think I can assume from your posts here that you are smart enough to read the notes before you are in the driveway?
> 
> By "pull this crap on me" do you mean if the notes say the customer will only take HR24s and that you should call ahead they are trying to screw you out of something? I hope not....


Read them yes, also have to decide to ignore them or not. Like I said in a previous post (not that anyone is actually reading them), more often than not, the ones that state call first, DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE. 

But for sake of arguement, you do get off your backside and pickup. I have no 24s, so you decide to cancel. I still take a hit on my completion rate, which affects a number of things. So yes, you do end up screwing me because of some false sense of entitlement.


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## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

RobertE said:


> So yes, you do end up screwing me because of some false sense of entitlement.


There we have it. Entitlement. Just because someone pays for a service, they believe they are entitled to make any and all demands. Nothing in their agreement with DirecTV allows them to demand specific receiver models or treat their employees with disrespect.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RobertE said:


> Read them yes, also have to decide to ignore them or not. Like I said in a previous post (not that anyone is actually reading them), more often than not, the ones that state call first, DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE.
> 
> But for sake of arguement, you do get off your backside and pickup. I have no 24s, so you decide to cancel. I still take a hit on my completion rate, which affects a number of things. So yes, you do end up screwing me because of some false sense of entitlement.





Hoosier205 said:


> There we have it. Entitlement. Just because someone pays for a service, they believe they are entitled to make any and all demands. Nothing in their agreement with DirecTV allows them to demand specific receiver models or treat their employees with disrespect.


You guys are killing me! :lol:

Entitlement?

Well, I guess you're correct. If I pay DirecTV for an HD DVR I believe I am entitled to have it respond to the remote. I am entitled to be supplied with a receiver that knows when I hit record it should start recording and not make me wonder if it received my first request. Yep I am entitled to that.

I am also entitled to have the installer read the notes and call ahead if I have requested it without the installer telling me I'm trying to pull food from his kid's table.

Yep it is all about entitlement.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

codespy said:


> We now have 5 pages of rollercoaster emotions over this topic......which could all have been avoided if 21's, 22's and 23's weren't sent out anymore. My .02 cents. :lol:


And are you going to pay the increase in fees because DirecTV has to scrap a bunch of good DVRs because a bunch of customers want to throw a fit?

I'm not...


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

RobertE said:


> But for sake of arguement, you do get off your backside and pickup. I have no 24s, so you decide to cancel. I still take a hit on my completion rate, which affects a number of things. So yes, you do end up screwing me because of some false sense of entitlement.


I'm just quoting this so it gets re-posted in case someone missed it when Robert posted it.

See folks, the installers DO get screwed when you throw a tantrum and refuse an install EVEN WHEN THEY CALL FIRST!


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Well, I guess you're correct. If I pay DirecTV for an HD DVR I believe I am entitled to have it respond to the remote. I am entitled to be supplied with a receiver that knows when I hit record it should start recording and not make me wonder if it received my first request. Yep I am entitled to that.


I have never seen any of the issues you describe, ever. My remotes have always been responsive and, with the exception of the first month or so after the HR20 came out, the DVRs have always done what I've asked of them.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> I have never seen any of the issues you describe, ever. My remotes have always been responsive and, with the exception of the first month or so after the HR20 came out, the DVRs have always done what I've asked of them.


You are one lucky guy - even many of the die-hard DirecTV fans admit that the HR21/22/23s have some troubles. If yours are the great I'm happy for you.

I'm still entitled to have mine working!:lol:


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> You guys are killing me! :lol:
> 
> Entitlement?
> 
> ...


I have an HR23 and I had an HR20 before that. I have none of the problems you have mentioned. Must be user error on your part. They do not guarantee you a specific model. You having whined enough to get a mere note added does not change that. Get whichever model you want yourself. It's not the installer's fault that you demand a specific receiver due to minor differences. Yes, you and others have fallen victim to a sense of entitlement.


----------



## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> You guys are killing me! :lol:
> 
> Entitlement?
> 
> ...


Here's a note for you. Read or re-read if you need to, post #105.

I have a field trial HR21-700. I do not have the problems that you do. Is it slower than the my HR20 or my HR24. Absolutely, no question about it. However it does everything I ask it to do. *I* have adjusted the speed in which I mash the buttons on the remote. It's not that hard to do.

It's no different than interacting with customers every day. Some are slower than others, but still customers. Some you can go through how to work things very fast, others not so much. I can control one aspect, and thats how fast I interact with them, so I do. Should we just throw out the slow(er) customers just because they arn't as fast as others? I think not.


----------



## netraa (Mar 28, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Read them yes, also have to decide to ignore them or not. Like I said in a previous post (not that anyone is actually reading them), more often than not, the ones that state call first, DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE.
> 
> But for sake of arguement, you do get off your backside and pickup. I have no 24s, so you decide to cancel. I still take a hit on my completion rate, which affects a number of things. So yes, you do end up screwing me because of some false sense of entitlement.


In our office, we quit rescheduling these. We now cancel them 'incorrect work order' so that the customer has to re-open the work order, and go through all that mess again. And then, when the we still don't have 24 that can go on an upgrade.... since per supply chain they (24's) are only authorized for NEW installs with MRV only..... they get canceled again, and again, and again.

In our office, if you want to specify what you want, call a dealer. Otherwise, take what we have, and what D* says we can install and be happy.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

netraa said:


> In our office, we quit rescheduling these. We now cancel them 'incorrect work order' so that the customer has to re-open the work order, and go through all that mess again. And then, when the we still don't have 24 that can go on an upgrade.... since per supply chain they (24's) are only authorized for NEW installs with MRV only..... they get canceled again, and again, and again.
> 
> In our office, if you want to specify what you want, call a dealer. Otherwise, take what we have, and what D* says we can install and be happy.


Give your boss, unless you are the boss, a pat on the back. A job well done.


----------



## Hoosier205 (Sep 3, 2007)

RobertE said:


> Should we just throw out the slow(er) customers just because they arn't as fast as others? I think not.


:lol: I might argue that they should do that at times. Thin the herd.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> You are one lucky guy - even many of the die-hard DirecTV fans admit that the HR21/22/23s have some troubles. If yours are the great I'm happy for you.
> 
> I'm still entitled to have mine working!:lol:


I don't think luck has anything to do with it.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Hoosier205 said:


> I have an HR23 and I had an HR20 before that. I have none of the problems you have mentioned. Must be user error on your part. They do not guarantee you a specific model. You having whined enough to get a mere note added does not change that. Get whichever model you want yourself. It's not the installer's fault that you demand a specific receiver due to minor differences. Yes, you and others have fallen victim to a sense of entitlement.


Right, could you explain this 'user error' that so many of us have? How come I don't see this 'user error' on the HR24s?

I paid my $600 get out of hell bill to get the HR24s so don't give me the 'Whined enough to get a mere note added' crap. I didn't turn any installers away. I wouldn't order an additional receiver from DirecTV because they'd screw it up... I PAID my dues.... We're talking about new installs for people that know (as I suspect you do) that the HR21/22/23 are significantly inferior to the HR24s. If direcTV doesn't want to set them up with HR24s then fine but don't try and pretend that an HR21 that has been installed 5 times over 4 years is the same as an HR24.

For the life of me I can't understand how you and a few others can 'pretend' to live in this fantasy world!:lol:


----------



## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Look....no offense, but people who change channels on the 21's, 22's, and 23's lose patience (I guess I will speak for myself).

Enter channel 206 <enter>.

DVR Response: going to channel 20 (unavailable), 6 gets processed, picture changes to channel 6.

Does it always happen? No.

Does it never not happen? No. It happens more often than not.

That's just one of many slowness problems.

Last April, I called ahead and requested HR24's to replace my 4 HR10's. Installer showed up with HR23's. Dispatch never gave him the memo about the receivers or about the 160lb black Great Dane I have when he pulls into the driveway.

Did I refuse? No.
Was I happy with the 23's? NO. Sooo much slower than my HR20's w/OTA.

Some people have wives, and mine complained about the slowness every day. And she came from a HR10-250 prior to that. SHE LET ME KNOW ABOUT IT EVERY DAY! I couldn't take it anymore.....I cracked.

A 49 minute phone call with tier 2 support, the 23's got switched to 24's....without the need for a truck roll.

BTW, I have always tipped the installers well for every trip to my house in the last 12 years!


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> I don't think luck has anything to do with it.


So if you stop by my humble abode do you suppose that my HR22s will resond to the remote 100% of the time? How can so many people have the same trouble?


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

codespy said:


> Look....no offense, but people who change channels on the 21's, 22's, and 23's lose patience (I guess I will speak for myself).
> 
> Enter channel 206 <enter>.
> 
> ...


Bingo! I guess you have had the same 'user error' I have. The HR21/22/23 are all a step down for the HR20 and the HR24s a big step up from there. Those are just the facts....


----------



## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Bingo! I guess you have had the same 'user error' I have. The HR21/22/23 are all a step down for the HR20 and the HR24s a big step up from there. Those are just the facts....


I agree based on my experience, and I have had all the receivers at one point.

I guess the best answer to the thread topic would be "I start crying".


----------



## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

RobertE said:


> Here's a note for you. Read or re-read if you need to, post #105.
> 
> I have a field trial HR21-700. I do not have the problems that you do. Is it slower than the my HR20 or my HR24. Absolutely, no question about it. However it does everything I ask it to do. *I* have adjusted the speed in which I mash the buttons on the remote. It's not that hard to do.
> 
> It's no different than interacting with customers every day. Some are slower than others, but still customers. Some you can go through how to work things very fast, others not so much. I can control one aspect, and thats how fast I interact with them, so I do. *Should we just throw out the slow(er) customers just because they arn't as fast as others?* I think not.


Don't tempt me


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

If DirecTV throws out all the 'slow' customers who would use all those HR21/22/23s?:lol:


----------



## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> If DirecTV throws out all the 'slow' customers who would use all those HR21/22/23s?:lol:


SD only customers, so they could get rid of SD.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

codespy said:


> Look....no offense, but people who change channels on the 21's, 22's, and 23's lose patience (I guess I will speak for myself).
> 
> Enter channel 206 <enter>.
> 
> ...


I, like many others, have never seen this issue on my HR21's. I've never had 22's or 23's but I've seen postings from others saying they don't have it either.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> So if you stop by my humble abode do you suppose that my HR22s will resond to the remote 100% of the time? How can so many people have the same trouble?


I'm not saying it's the person using it. (I'm also not the one saying it is user error) It has to be something with the setups of people that have the issues. If it was the unit itself, or even the firmware, we would all be having the exact same issue.


----------



## Joe C (Mar 3, 2005)

codespy said:


> Look....no offense, but people who change channels on the 21's, 22's, and 23's lose patience (I guess I will speak for myself).
> 
> Enter channel 206 <enter>.
> 
> ...


This is exactly the way my HR22's work. I tried to use the 1 line guide to change channels but as I go up or down the damn thing freezes then jumps through multiple channels worth of data making the text unreadable. How the hell do you consistently change a channel with these things ?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

codespy said:


> I agree based on my experience, and I have had all the receivers at one point.
> 
> I guess the best answer to the thread topic would be "I start crying".





Joe C said:


> This is exactly the way my HR22's work. I tried to use the 1 line guide to change channels but as I go up or down the damn thing freezes then jumps through multiple channels worth of data making the text unreadable. How the hell do you consistently change a channel with these things ?


I hate to see grown-ups cry... :eek2:

Try this...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2596954#post2596954


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

When my DVR that I have since replaced was Slow I simply Hit the Guide Button and then Entered the Channel Number and then when it went to that channel on the Guide I Hit the Enter Button and I was Done!!!

That is the way I surf thru the Guide.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> When my DVR that I have since replaced was Slow I simply Hit the Guide Button and then Entered the Channel Number and then when it went to that channel on the Guide I Hit the Enter Button and I was Done!!!
> 
> That is the way I surf thru the Guide.


Take a peak at the link featured in the post above yours (#141)...you might want to think about trying that...it works, and works with great results.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I hate to see grown-ups cry... :eek2:
> 
> Try this...
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2596954#post2596954


An attempted fix for a problem that doesn't exist&#8230; Hmmm?

This does, by the way, improve remote response on my HR22s&#8230; Doesn't completely fix it but it does help.

Now back to the usual 'The HR21/22/23 receivers are not slow, replace your batteries, mine works fine, must be something in your setup, DirecTV can do no wrong, The HR24 is only a little faster, don't screw installers that ignore the notes' thread&#8230;&#8230;


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Take a peak at the link featured in the post above yours (#141)...you might want to think about trying that...it works, and works with great results.


I did that as soon as that Post came out but I am just saying that this is a Great Way to do it if you are getting missing typos, etc. when entering Channel Numbers because there is No Lag when you are in the Guide and go figure that one out.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> An attempted fix for a problem that doesn't exist&#8230; Hmmm?
> 
> This does, by the way, improve remote response on my HR22s&#8230; Doesn't completely fix it but it does help.


You can make improvements without having a "real problem".

Ask any auto mechanic. 


richierich said:


> I did that as soon as that Post came out but I am just saying that this is a Great Way to do it if you are getting missing typos, etc. when entering Channel Numbers because there is No Lag when you are in the Guide and go figure that one out.


Guess it would be...I navigate quicker and more simply.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Guess it would be...I navigate quicker and more simply.


You can Navigate Quicker if your DVR won't allow you but try it when you get home. If you have Slow Key Entries or Lag go into the Guide and Enter the same Channel Number and you will not see a Lag entering the numbers so something is definitely different about the way it processes Key Strokes when in the Guide.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You can make improvements without having a "real problem".
> 
> Ask any auto mechanic.


I guess you can take a 'not slow' HR22 and make it a little more 'not slow' by doing this?:lol: Does it make it as 'not slow' as the HR24s? Nope.

I don't think the world would come to end if the DirecTV fan club would admit the HR24s are significantly faster than the HR21/22/23 receivers. Kind of like they did in the 'First look' threads.....


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I guess you can take a 'not slow' HR22 and make it a little more 'not slow' by doing this?:lol: *Does it make it as 'not slow' as the HR24s? Nope.*...


...nor would most people think it would...since the 2 units have different processors and other electronics in them.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...nor would most people think it would...since the 2 units have different processors and other electronics in them.


I would think that Mike Greer should know that there is a Faster Processor and More RAM associated with the HR24 DVRs so everyone should know that they are Faster, DUH!!!

I think some people just like to Argue for the Sake of Arguing!!! And arguing never changes the other person's opinion anyway so why waste the energy!!!


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

codespy said:


> We now have 5 pages of rollercoaster emotions over this topic......which could all have been avoided if 21's, 22's and 23's weren't sent out anymore. My .02 cents. :lol:


Which also could have been avoided if the whole 21 series hadn't been produced in the first place. All the majority of the 21s did was cause problems.

Rich


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## Jables (Apr 24, 2008)

codespy said:


> Look....no offense, but people who change channels on the 21's, 22's, and 23's lose patience (I guess I will speak for myself).
> 
> Enter channel 206 <enter>.
> 
> ...


I find that the only time I get this happening (I have two HR-20s and an HR-23) is when the receiver is trying to load some app in the background - like the score guide, or the weather app on the Weather Channel. The receiver basically slows to a crawl and becomes totally unresponsive. I've learned to mash on the Exit key to cancel the stupid app loading and then the box goes back to being responsive again.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Which also could have been avoided if the whole 21 series hadn't been produced in the first place. All the majority of the 21s did was cause problems.
> 
> Rich


Hmmmm...my HR21-200 has been one of the most solid units I've had....next to the HR24.

Not sure all these generalities from various posters about models/series fit reality.


----------



## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Mike Greer said:


> If DirecTV throws out all the 'slow' customers who would use all those HR21/22/23s?:lol:


If you would look at some of my old Posts by doing a Search you would see that I stated that the biggest problems with the HR2X DVRs was that they were Overworked and needed a Faster Processor and More RAM and Now that the HR24 DVRs are here those problems have been eliminated.

I must be a SAGE!!! :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2646573&postcount=13
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2649219&postcount=38
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2649263&postcount=40


This is getting ridiculous. Where in those links do I advocate turning an installer away? Can you really be this dense?



> See above links where you agree with sending the installer away. Your own words, no twists at all.


Yup, my own words. And I never advocated sending an installer away.



> Your argument holds no water... If you're given a 21 to replace a 20 DirecTV will give you an AM-21, if you ask nicely, so that you get your OTA back.


Dense, too dense to argue with.



> And they perform the same. Again, name one function that an HR24 has that a 20, 21, 22 or 23 doesn't.


Now you twist your own words. You were the one that said functions and performance were two different things.


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

richierich said:


> If you would look at some of my old Posts by doing a Search you would see that I stated that the biggest problems with the HR2X DVRs was that they were Overworked and needed a Faster Processor and More RAM and Now that the HR24 DVRs are here those problems have been eliminated.
> 
> *I must be a SAGE*!!! :lol:


...or a former programmer...


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

richierich said:


> I would think that Mike Greer should know that there is a Faster Processor and More RAM associated with the HR24 DVRs so everyone should know that they are Faster, DUH!!!
> 
> I think some people just like to Argue for the Sake of Arguing!!! And arguing never changes the other person's opinion anyway so why waste the energy!!!


Oh, I'm well aware. I have 2 HR22s and 3 HR24s. They are much faster. I just don't agree with the DirecTV die-hards that don't think it matters if your new install gets you HR24s or well-used HR21s.... Their argument is that it doesn't matter - and that's not true.

As far as a waste of energy goes - I have to agree there! TV in general is a waste of energy - especially trying to change the channel with an HR22! My only reason for posting here is to let as many people as possible know that they want HR24s (or even HR20s for that matter) for their new installs....


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Oh, I'm well aware. I have 2 HR22s and 3 HR24s. They are much faster. I just don't agree with the DirecTV die-hards that don't think it matters if your new install gets you HR24s or well-used HR21s....


I just hope you are sitting down...comfortably and in a secure location....because.....I agree. There........I said it.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Hoosier205 said:


> The entire discussion is pointless.  They cannot guarantee a specific model.


In certain instances a line of HRs can be specified and received. I returned a 24-500 thru the CMG recently and was assured by the CMG agent that, since I had MRV, I would receive a 24 and I did. It was sent via FedEx and received within two days.



> You can whine until you get a note added, but it its only that...a note. A mere mention of the request to get the overly demanding customer off the phone. It's not an order. It's not a guarantee. If you want a specific model, acquire one yourself. If you don't like that, take your business elsewhere.


I hope you're not including me in the above statement. I know how the whole thing works and I know the notes are pretty much useless. And I know how to get what I want when I want it. I've never asked for a 24 and if I hadn't gotten the two 24s I have without cost, I simply wouldn't have them, I would have waited for a year or so until I thought they were stabilized. I do have to admit that they are pretty much stabilized now.



> People are already complaining about the cost of service and next year's price increases. They'd really be ticked off if they say how much more they would pay if all receivers except the 24's were discontinued in mass.


Again, I hope you're not including me in your post. I've bought six (they are all owned, all with large internals) of my twelve HRs and spent quite a bit of money doing that. I happily pay my bill every month even tho it's well over $200.

Rich


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

richierich said:


> If you would look at some of my old Posts by doing a Search you would see that I stated that the biggest problems with the HR2X DVRs was that they were Overworked and needed a Faster Processor and More RAM and Now that the HR24 DVRs are here those problems have been eliminated.
> 
> I must be a SAGE!!! :lol:


Ah, I think we are both saying the same thing about the HR21/22/23 vs the HR24s....


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just hope you are sitting down...comfortably and in a secure location....because.....I agree. There........I said it.


What? :eek2: Who is this and what have you done with the real hdtvfan0001?


----------



## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Ah, I think we are both saying the same thing about the HR21/22/23 vs the HR24s....


Or equally out in left field....after all...its a big place out there and holds lots of people... :lol:


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> And are you going to pay the increase in fees because DirecTV has to scrap a bunch of good DVRs because a bunch of customers want to throw a fit?
> 
> I'm not...


Some of those "good" DVRs are dependable units. I have a 21-700 and a 21-200. Yeah, they are noticeably slower than the 20-700s and the 24s, but I can't argue against their dependability. The rest of them I wouldn't bother with, but I can well afford to buy my own replacements so that isn't an issue for me. If D* would have kept their standards up to the 20-700s and not issued that whole line of 21s this would not be an issue that we argue about. Whether you want to believe it or not, the 20-700s should have been followed by better HRs, not gone down in performance.


----------



## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Some of those "good" DVRs are dependable units. I have a 21-700 and a 21-200. Yeah, they are noticeably slower than the 20-700s and the 24s, but I can't argue against their dependability. The rest of them I wouldn't bother with, but I can well afford to buy my own replacements so that isn't an issue for me. If D* would have kept their standards up to the 20-700s and not issued that whole line of 21s this would not be an issue that we argue about. Whether you want to believe it or not, the 20-700s should have been followed by better HRs, not gone down in performance.


You're right Rich.... If DirecTV wouldn't have cheap-charlied the HR20 replacement we wouldn't be having this discussion and the installer's kids would not be starving because dear ol' dad was told to go away. But - DirecTV slowed down the receivers to save money and we get the missed key pushes etc that have led to the 'Starve an installer's kid' movement we have now.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> I have a field trial HR21-700. I do not have the problems that you do. Is it slower than the my HR20 or my HR24. Absolutely, no question about it. However it does everything I ask it to do. *I* have adjusted the speed in which I mash the buttons on the remote. It's not that hard to do.


I've never had that problem that so many others report either. When I hit the correct buttons in the correct manner I get the correct response every time. Except for the Playlist when using the MRV function, but I have hopes that will be corrected someday altho my system might never function as it should because of the capacity that I have built into it.



> It's no different than interacting with customers every day. Some are slower than others, but still customers. Some you can go through how to work things very fast, others not so much. I can control one aspect, and thats how fast I interact with them, so I do. Should we just throw out the slow(er) customers just because they arn't as fast as others? I think not.


Interacting with people is the reason that I stopped doing electrical work outside of my regular job. I could still do that work, but I don't want to go thru all the problems that people cause to electricians who just plain know more about what they are doing than the customer does. Even the bad electricians (and there are a lot of them) know more than most customers do. I know licensed electricians (you have to pass a test to be a licensed electrician in NJ) who suffer thru their jobs every day and I've never seen one turn down a job no matter how difficult the customer was to deal with. But then they get paid a whole lot more than you guys do, so that's why they put up with them.

Rich


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Which also could have been avoided if the whole 21 series hadn't been produced in the first place. All the majority of the 21s did was cause problems.
> 
> Rich


I've never had a problem with any of my 21's and I have 4 currently. If there were known issues with the 21's odds are I would have experienced them.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> This is getting ridiculous. Where in those links do I advocate turning an installer away? Can you really be this dense?


Well I'm not here to teach you how to read. If you can't see in your posts where you promoted sending an installer away who showed up with no 24's then that's your problem. Maybe you should speak with your 3rd grade teacher.



rich584 said:


> Yup, my own words. And I never advocated sending an installer away.


Again, if you can't read it's not my fault.



rich584 said:


> Dense, too dense to argue with.


Yup, you are.



rich584 said:


> Now you twist your own words. You were the one that said functions and performance were two different things.


I have not twisted anyone's words much less my own. If anyone is twisting words it's you twisting your own into thinking you're not promoting sending an installer away.


----------



## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Some of those "good" DVRs are dependable units. I have a 21-700 and a 21-200. Yeah, they are noticeably slower than the 20-700s and the 24s, but I can't argue against their dependability. The rest of them I wouldn't bother with, but I can well afford to buy my own replacements so that isn't an issue for me. If D* would have kept their standards up to the 20-700s and not issued that whole line of 21s this would not be an issue that we argue about. Whether you want to believe it or not, the 20-700s should have been followed by better HRs, not gone down in performance.


Wow, not what I was asking at all... But feel free to use any post to toot your own horn and try to get everyone to think you have an endless supply of money so money is no object to you.


----------



## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

netraa said:


> In our office, we quit rescheduling these.


Rather vague statement. Do you mean you quit rescheduling work orders that specify a 24? From reading the rest of the post, I gather that is what you meant. I have no problem with that, if that's what you meant. That seems rational to me.



> We now cancel them 'incorrect work order' so that the customer has to re-open the work order, and go through all that mess again. And then, when the we still don't have 24 that can go on an upgrade.... since per supply chain they (24's) are only authorized for NEW installs with MRV only


As I said in an earlier post, I have been told by the CMG that if I have a 24 and MRV I will be given a 24 if one of mine should fail. And they did just that when my first 24 failed. After explaining what problems the 24 was exhibiting, the agent, who was gonna send a truck out at first, decided that I was correct and just sent the 24 by FedEx, but if he would have caused a truck to roll, I still would have gotten the 24. The CMG agents do call back a couple days after you get the issue you called about fixed and make sure that their orders were carried out in the manner that they dictated.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

codespy said:


> Look....no offense, but people who change channels on the 21's, 22's, and 23's lose patience (I guess I will speak for myself).
> 
> Enter channel 206 <enter>.
> 
> ...


You know, I've seen so many posts about the cost of the PP. That piddly $6 a month. Yet every time an installer comes out and does a decent job I give them either $50 or $100 depending on how long and how well they do the job. And every installer is sent to my home by the PP or thru the PP, by the CMG. I've had a lot of installs and haven't *****ed about the tips I give out nor would I think of complaining about the monthly cost of the PP. Glad to see you tip well too.

These guys don't make enough money to live on here in NJ and they are always very grateful when they receive their tip and usually open their trucks and give me all kinds of goodies. I usually have the wires run for them and I've never had to buy cables, I've been given a couple rolls over the years and lots of barrels and connectors.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

codespy said:


> Look....no offense, but people who change channels on the 21's, 22's, and 23's lose patience (I guess I will speak for myself).
> 
> Enter channel 206 <enter>.
> 
> ...


I've had one 22-100. Worked unbelievably well for a week or two then went berserk and was unusable. But when it worked well, it really was quite amazing. Then one day, BOOM, it went nuts. I actually went to a Costco and paid the lease fee for that POS.

Because of that 22, D* waived my commitment. They couldn't find a way to argue against my point that they failed to supply a DVR that worked. And since they owned it, they were responsible for leasing a defective (thats putting it mildly) unit to me. I didn't have a commitment when I bought the 22. They did replace the 22 with a never activated 23 that wouldn't respond to any remote commands in either RF or IF modes and that bolstered my argument.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hmmmm...my HR21-200 has been one of the most solid units I've had....next to the HR24.
> 
> Not sure all these generalities from various posters about models/series fit reality.


I've said repeatedly that my 21-200 and my 21-700 are solid units. No generalities there, they are both just slower than my 20-700s and 24s. I can live with them. The rest of them (and I've had all the models except for the 22-200, which I'm sure is as solid and slow as my 21-200 and the 24-100) I wouldn't have in my home. And since I usually buy my own replacement HRs on eBay or CL, I do have a choice.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> If you would look at some of my old Posts by doing a Search you would see that I stated that the biggest problems with the HR2X DVRs was that they were Overworked and needed a Faster Processor and More RAM and Now that the HR24 DVRs are here those problems have been eliminated.
> 
> I must be a SAGE!!! :lol:


Yes, I remember all those posts and you were right. As were we all. Still when you compare those 21s to VCRs, they are still a step up. Perhaps D* made a mistake when they started with the 20-700s. The rest pale by comparison until you reach the 24s.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Yes, I remember all those posts and you were right. As were we all. Still when you compare those 21s to VCRs, they are still a step up. Perhaps D* made a mistake when they started with the 20-700s. The rest pale by comparison until you reach the 24s.
> 
> Rich


I was bashed by some Directv Fanboys but I knew it was Overworked and Never Designed to handle all of the Tasks that were being thrown at it. Then after the HR20s they went the Cheap Route to Save Money and finally after alot of complaining they finally wised up and went with a Faster, Better Processor with More RAM and now they are going to Replace all of the HR20s, HR21s, HR22s, HR23s with the HR24s Eventually as they know they are going to be adding more and more tasks to the list of what the DVR has to do!!!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just hope you are sitting down...comfortably and in a secure location....because.....I agree. There........I said it.


Holy Moly, damn near knocked me off my chair! Just kidding, I know you know.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> Ah, I think we are both saying the same thing about the HR21/22/23 vs the HR24s....


Anybody who rationally compared them would have to come to the same conclusion. Even the CMG agents agree on this point every time I bring it up in conversations with them.

One thing, Mike, I do wish you wouldn't lump the 20-700s in with the 20-100s. They don't perform equally.

Rich


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> One thing, Mike, I do wish you wouldn't lump the 20-700s in with the 20-100s. They don't perform equally.
> Rich


And don't lump the HR24-500 in with the other manufacturer's HR24 Models as they are not the same either!!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Or equally out in left field....after all...its a big place out there and holds lots of people... :lol:


Nope. You're both right and lots of us agree. Rule of thumb in industry: Out of each 100 workers 5-10% will be troublemakers. And they are rarely the best and brightest. I think we are seeing that in this rather interesting thread.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Nope. You're both right and lots of us agree. Rule of thumb in industry: Out of each 100 workers 5-10% will be troublemakers. And *they are rarely the best and brightest*. I think we are seeing that in this rather interesting thread.
> 
> Rich


Ok...I'll give you that one based on your description... :lol::lol::lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> You're right Rich.... If DirecTV wouldn't have cheap-charlied the HR20 replacement we wouldn't be having this discussion and the installer's kids would not be starving because dear ol' dad was told to go away. But - DirecTV slowed down the receivers to save money and we get the missed key pushes etc that have led to the 'Starve an installer's kid' movement we have now.


Agree, I do, but the installers in my area don't have starving children for long, they are always looking for better jobs and I rarely get the same one twice. Damn shame how they are treated by D*.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> I've never had a problem with any of my 21's and I have 4 currently. If there were known issues with the 21's odds are I would have experienced them.


Odd are you don't see forests either. Too many trees in the way.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Well I'm not here to teach you how to read. If you can't see in your posts where you promoted sending an installer away who showed up with no 24's then that's your problem. Maybe you should speak with your 3rd grade teacher.
> 
> Again, if you can't read it's not my fault.
> Yup, you are.
> ...


My God, you're pathetic. Now you can send a post back to me saying that I'm pathetic. There, you didn't even have to stumble over the keyboard to write it.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Wow, not what I was asking at all... But feel free to use any post to toot your own horn and try to get everyone to think you have an endless supply of money so money is no object to you.


Does that really bother you? If so, I feel as if my work is done.

If this helps at all, I've never said I had an endless supply of money, I've never said I was rich, but I have said I was comfy and could afford just about anything I wanted within reason. And I have no problem spending money to get what I want.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

WOW....if this thread were an airplane....I'd be reaching for both my airsick bag and oxygen mask at the same time right about now... :eek2::lol:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I was bashed by some Directv Fanboys but I knew it was Overworked and Never Designed to handle all of the Tasks that were being thrown at it. Then after the HR20s they went the Cheap Route to Save Money and finally after alot of complaining they finally wised up and went with a Faster, Better Processor with More RAM and now they are going to Replace all of the HR20s, HR21s, HR22s, HR23s with the HR24s Eventually as they know they are going to be adding more and more tasks to the list of what the DVR has to do!!!!


Obviously you'll never prove that to _one_ of the "contributing" posters on this thread. If he can even understand your well written post!!! :lol:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> And don't lump the HR24-500 in with the other manufacturer's HR24 Models as they are not the same either!!!


Yes, I do see a difference in my two 24s. I prefer the 200, but I can't really find much wrong with the 500. I'm quite pleased with both of them. But they are both making my 2TB EVDS drives rumble again. Hope they fix that. If they don't, next summer they'll have 2TB EADS HDDs in their docking stations. I really should take some time and modify that sled/bracket in my owned 200 so that I can put the EVDS in it and see if that stops the rumbling. Wish I had a drill press handy.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> WOW....if this thread were an airplane....I'd be reaching for both my airsick bag and oxygen mask at the same time right about now... :eek2::lol:


First thread in a long time that hasn't been boring. Don't you think?

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

rich584 said:


> First thread in a long time that hasn't been boring. Don't you think?
> 
> Rich


!rolling

OK - ya got me.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> Does that really bother you? If so, I feel as if my work is done.
> 
> If this helps at all, I've never said I had an endless supply of money, I've never said I was rich, but I have said I was comfy and could afford just about anything I wanted within reason. And I have no problem spending money to get what I want.


Me Too!!! I am Comfy and I Get What I Want Within Reason!!! :lol:


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

rich584 said:


> First thread in a long time that hasn't been boring. Don't you think?
> 
> Rich


I've just learned being an Ole Fart that you Never change the other guy's opinion even if you have the Facts on your side as he will not admit he is wrong as that is a position of weakness.

That is why I don't argue especially in regards to Politics, Religion, etc. because you are wasting your time, it ain't gonna happen because they believe what they want to believe and they believe they are right and will defend that position until they are Blue in the Face so I just quit arguing and now I just enjoy other's fruitless efforts to change other's opinions.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> !rolling
> 
> OK - ya got me.


When it comes to the forum, I do kinda miss '06 and '07. Sure wasn't boring then. :lol:

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

richierich said:


> I've just learned being an Ole Fart that you Never change the other guy's opinion even if you have the Facts on your side as he will not admit he is wrong as that is a position of weakness.
> 
> That is why I don't argue especially in regards to Politics, Religion, etc. because you are wasting your time, it ain't gonna happen because they believe what they want to believe and they believe they are right and will defend that position until they are Blue in the Face so I just quit arguing and now I just enjoy other's fruitless efforts to change other's opinions.


I agree, but I had a good time.

We do learn a lot from arguing if both participants are willing to change their point of view. When I used to teach adult classes at that college, I'd let arguments go on for a whole class if there was something to be gained. Of course everyone arguing their points were in the same room and as long as I acted as a facilitator nothing got out of hand. And we usually gained knowledge.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I just hope you are sitting down...comfortably and in a secure location....because.....I agree. There........I said it.


Still in shock.....


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Still in shock.....


Seasons Greetings.


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## GBFAN (Nov 13, 2006)

richierich said:


> Me Too!!! I am Comfy and I Get What I Want Within Reason!!! :lol:


+1


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Rather vague statement. Do you mean you quit rescheduling work orders that specify a 24? From reading the rest of the post, I gather that is what you meant. I have no problem with that, if that's what you meant. That seems rational to me.


No, he means they quit rescheduling installs for people who act like children and cancel installs if the installer doesn't bring an HR24.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Odd are you don't see forests either. Too many trees in the way.


I don't see issues with my 21's. Why is that so hard for you to believe?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

rich584 said:


> My God, you're pathetic. Now you can send a post back to me saying that I'm pathetic. There, you didn't even have to stumble over the keyboard to write it.


You know what, enjoy yourself down here at your level. I'm going back up to mine.

Feel free to put me on ignore.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Hmmm...

Sure hope the OP got his answer....


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> Sure hope the OP got his answer....


Of course he did! I'm sure he took that meal right off the table by telling the installer to hit the road!

Seriously, he hopefully he had HR24(s) installed and all is well.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> Of course he did! I'm sure he took that meal right off the table by telling the installer to hit the road!
> 
> Seriously, he hopefully he had HR24(s) installed and all is well.


This should freak some folks out...Mike...care to join me in a round of KUM BAI YA....  :lol:

See...people can actually disagree and get past it.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This should freak some folks out...Mike...care to join me in a round of KUM BAI YA....  :lol:
> 
> See...people can actually disagree and get past it.


I'm a little afraid but count me in!


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Mike Greer said:


> I'm a little afraid but count me in!


!rolling


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## billsharpe (Jan 25, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> And are you going to pay the increase in fees because DirecTV has to scrap a bunch of good DVRs because a bunch of customers want to throw a fit?
> 
> I'm not...


Perhaps if these were really good DVR's customoers would not be throwing fits.

Just saying...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

It would appear the Thread Starters question has been answered and this thread is way off track. I think we're done for now. 

Mike


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