# No More AM21s?



## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

My parents live in an area where they're in one major metro's DMA, but are actually physically closer to a smaller city with its own broadcasting area. Anyway, they've always got the networks from DirecTV from the major metro, but also used an AM21 to also get the channels from the other city. Anyway, my dad went to watch something on it last night and noticed it was not working. I walked him through the troubleshooting steps (restarting receiver, trying to redo initial antenna set-up) and nothing helped. Anyway, I just assumed the AM21 had gone bad, which has happened before, and told him I'd get a new one and install it for him during the holidays.

Well, went to order one this morning from Solid Signal, as I have successfully in the past, and the only available options are $150! Did a web search and they seem to be selling used units on eBay for $100+. What's going on?

Last time I purchased a few years back, I think they were $50-$60. I know DirecTV hasn't been sending them out for a while, but they were still available, last I knew.

Anyone know what's going on?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

What is a AM21. I think it is a OTA Antenna.
If it is, why is it going thru a receiver ?
Easiest way would be to connect it to the COAX Jack on the TV.
Then just toggle the (2) in-puts. Satellite and Antenna
Eliminates all the extra steps.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

ragweed10 said:


> What is a AM21. I think it is a OTA Antenna.
> If it is, why is it going thru a receiver ?
> Easiest way would be to connect it to the COAX Jack on the TV.
> Then just toggle the (2) in-puts. Satellite and Antenna
> Eliminates all the extra steps.


The AM21 allows you to record over-the-air content on a DVR and, more importantly in this case for my folks, access it all in one screen/input. I was just curious if anyone knew why they're suddenly unavailable or selling at 3x the original price. This usually indicates a change in DirecTV hardware.


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Quite likely that they're not being manufactured any more. I don't think they ever really sold very many.


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## peds48 (Jan 11, 2008)

ragweed10 said:


> What is a AM21. I think it is a OTA Antenna.
> If it is, why is it going thru a receiver ?
> Easiest way would be to connect it to the COAX Jack on the TV.
> Then just toggle the (2) in-puts. Satellite and Antenna
> *Eliminates all the extra steps.*


But prohibits you from recording....


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

Where do you get a AM21 ?
How do you connect it to a DirecTV DVR ? What IN-PUT ?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

The AM21 connects via the USB port on the DVRs.

As for obtaining them--Solidsignal.com still has them: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=AM21&d=DIRECTV-AM21N-Off-Air-Dual-Tuner-(AM21)&sku=8546300063&q=am21

Peace,
Tom


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

There was just a thread on this the other day where people were still able to get them from DirecTV (many were getting them for free). You have to call in and get the CSR to look in some strange page that they don't normally look at in order to find it. Many people were actually receiving an AM22 which was a previously unheard of model that looks to have been originally made for the latin american market (the instructions are in spanish). Do a search on AM22 and you can likely find the thread.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

It's really a confusing situation right now....

1) The AM21 has indeed been officially discontinued from manufacture and distribution by DIRECTV, yet some CSRs are still able to dig them up by consulting certain detailed parts and accessories lists.

2) Of the CSRs that can locate it, some are giving it away for free. I had a CSR just recently who found it, but said he would have to charge $50.00.

3) There has been a suggestion it is replaced by the "AM22" which is virtually indentical to the AM21, but with a dull black metal case instead of glossy black. Yet the one example of an "AM22P-700" posted had a date of manufacturer of 2011??? 

EDIT: AM22 model# corrected.

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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I believe the am22 is the am21n. That's my guess anyway.


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## onan38 (Jul 17, 2008)

I have purchased from here before.They are showing Am21n in stock. Might want to give them a call just to be sure.

https://supernovagadget.com/directv-am21n-tv-tuner?language=en&currency=USD


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I believe the am22 is the am21n. That's my guess anyway.


It's actually labelled as AM22P-700, from what one person got.

One thing to keep in mind on these, when connected to a Genie, you can only record two things at once OTA (of course you can still record 3 other things over sat), and it doesn't allow you to record 7 things 

Also, the age old issue of no scanning, and the channel/subchannel must be in the database. If the channel ID exceeds 65535, it cannot be added to the database.


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## 1980ws (Mar 18, 2008)

Ended my service with DTV a few weeks ago and have an AM21 sitting in my garage. I thought I paid for it free and clear but wasn't sure. Guess I'll post it up to ebay Sunday morning and see what it will go for. I used it quite a bit here in the Orlando area. Nice complement to the DTV channels.


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## stoutman (Feb 8, 2003)

so what options are there for those of us who will need OTA when we upgrade our receivers?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

1980ws said:


> Ended my service with DTV a few weeks ago and have an AM21 sitting in my garage. I thought I paid for it free and clear but wasn't sure. Guess I'll post it up to ebay Sunday morning and see what it will go for. I used it quite a bit here in the Orlando area. Nice complement to the DTV channels.


AM21s are always owned. They are fairly "dumb" no activation or access card.

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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

stoutman said:


> so what options are there for those of us who will need OTA when we upgrade our receivers?


No actual clarity yet from DIRECTV (AT&T) on this issue as strange at that may seem.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

While there aren't a large number of people using AM21 or H20/HR20 for OTA, there are enough that they would definitely have to make some sort of announcement well in advance if they planned on discontinuing it. So I wouldn't worry about buying one today and having it be worthless a month later. Worst case it would be worthless in a couple years.

If they are planning on replacing the AM21 with a brand new model they won't announce anything. We'll find out the same way we always do about new Directv hardware, there will be a rumor thread here or at satelliteguys.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

Not willing to pay 3x the cost for the same product, so at this point I'll play wait and see, and figure out what to tell my folks after I see if anything new pops up in the next month or so. I know that he, and both my siblings, all of them in different areas of the country, have DirecTV and everyone but me has the AM21. (We can't get any OTA here.) How much it's used is another story, but the initial impetus was to get it for the sub channels not offered by DirecTV, after having been used to having OTA on board with HR20s. Know my sister-in-law was pretty insistent on it to keep the PBS sub channel, which plays the kids shows 24-7, but that was pre-Netflix, and when her kids were smaller, so not sure how necessary it is anymore.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

There are/were two different AM21s: AM21 and AM21N. I don't remember the differences, but there should be something under their First Looks (which you can find both on this link: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/110173-directv-first-looks-and-reviews/?p=2795728).


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

trh said:


> There are/were two different AM21s: AM21 and AM21N. I don't remember the differences, but there should be something under their First Looks (which you can find both on this link: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/110173-directv-first-looks-and-reviews/?p=2795728).


I believe there is a power difference for newer receivers, matte black and signal strength doesn't go to 100 (but is identical in use).

But now we have this AM22P, which really doesn't look different either.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I believe there is a power difference for newer receivers, matte black and signal strength doesn't go to 100 (but is identical in use).
> 
> But now we have this AM22P, which really doesn't look different either.


It really does look the same, but it is stamped with a different model number. The AM21 was shiny black, I assume to match the shiny HR21 IRD's when they came out. The HR22's were matte black. The AM22P has 85% limit on signal strength like the AM21N.

Actually if you dig deeper, there were other models made by Pace for the off-air tuners...

_*Digital terrestrial receivers*__, Model(s) __AM21N, AM22N,_ _AM21P, AM22P__, __LIM22A__, __LIM22C_


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The LIM ones make sense. It would make some sense if N . For NTSC And P for PAL, but if that were the case, I don't think someone here wouldn't be able to use a P.

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

dpeters11 said:


> The LIM ones make sense. It would make some sense if N . For NTSC And P for PAL, but if that were the case, I don't think someone here wouldn't be able to use a P.


The AM21 doesn't support analog - no NTSC and therefore I'm sure no PAL. I think the N and P mean something else.


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## susanandmark (Feb 15, 2007)

According to a message from Solid Signal ... "That item is in "end of life" status. Due to supply and demand, Direct Tv raised it price to us, so we had to raise the price in return. That is the reason for the price increase. I am sorry for inconvenience."

So does that mean no OTA option anymore from DirecTV?


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

No way to know what it means, other than what Directv communicated to Solid Signal and other dealers. Doesn't tell us anything about whether there will be a future product to replace it or they will announce an end date for OTA support. Directv gives tons of advance notice if they discontinuing something, so if they do get rid of OTA it will be probably be something like 12-24 months from the date of the announcement.

Just have to wait and see. Could be bad news, or could be great news if they introduce something that avoids the stupid limitations of the AM21 and isn't the size of a large pizza box.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Or with the small number of markets left left don't get HD locals, they may feel that if those are added, there's no need. Of course there are other reasons for using one. 

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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Good point. With the launch of D14 and the moving around of locals they did over the summer, Directv now has the ability to add all those remaining markets. Not sure why they haven't actually done it yet, but I would expect it in the relatively near future. Maybe knowing they're close to the finish line makes them feel comfortable dropping OTA support entirely.

Their behavior the last few years with OTA shows they don't value it as a way to add subchannels. First they didn't change things to fix the bug that prevents channels with a Tribune ID higher than 65535 from being in their database, then they removed the AM21's and H20/HR20's ability to scan for channels.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Good point. With the launch of D14 and the moving around of locals they did over the summer, Directv now has the ability to add all those remaining markets. Not sure why they haven't actually done it yet, but I would expect it in the relatively near future. Maybe knowing they're close to the finish line makes them feel comfortable dropping OTA support entirely.
> 
> *Their behavior the last few years with OTA shows they don't value it as a way to add subchannels.* First they didn't change things to fix the bug that prevents channels with a Tribune ID higher than 65535 from being in their database, then they removed the AM21's and H20/HR20's ability to scan for channels.


I think even more important, they don't value it as a way to add subscribers. There is a cost to ongoing support of OTA, and the return on that investment obviously does not justify continuing to do so.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

It isn't free to support, but given how aggressively local stations have been demanding higher fees every time the contracts renew, providing subscribers with another way to get them would give Directv a bit more leverage and make up that cost and then some. Mike White even hinted at this in one of his statements a couple years ago. I don't recall the exact wording, but it sounded to me like he was implying that Directv was working on a way to better support OTA as a way to gain leverage in negotiation with local stations. Maybe since he said that they changed their mind or the AT&T deal is taking them in another direction.

The assumption why Directv removed the OTA capability the H10/HR10 and H20/HR20 had added was that it had to do with cost. The cost of the hardware itself probably wasn't the only reason, since ATSC patent licenses were apparently fairly expensive back then - I heard claims as high as $20 per device. A decade later ATSC patents have pretty much expired, so that cost is zero or soon will be. More importantly, as tuners go fully digital demodulating 8-VSB can share the same hardware as demodulating QPSK/8PSK - it is a matter of what software the DSP runs. At that point the only cost is the additional F81 connector on the back of the receiver, and of course the support costs which they are already incurring today. With the Genie + clients / "gateway" model Directv is moving towards, they'd only need add that extra port to the Genie, and all the clients could benefit.

Obviously I have no idea if that's their plan, the plan may be to drop OTA support entirely. But I don't think we can say that for sure yet, until they make a move in one direction or another. Either they indicate future support via new hardware introduction, or drop guide data for all those subchannels they don't carry via satellite as a first step toward discontinuing it entirely.


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## Beerstalker (Feb 9, 2009)

I would love to see them add OTA input to the Genie.

I do remember Mike White saying that before as well, and I think that adding OTA back into the Genie and having people switch to OTA would be a great tactic in battling the insane rate increases all of these local stations seem to be looking for anymore.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I think over the air support is about done but if not I could imagine a small box with four tuners in it. Maybe even be MOCA instead of USB so it could simply go online anywhere instead of having to be at the recover allowing them to place it near a dish outside and not worry about the issues of diplexiers.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

I'd buy a 4 tuner box in an instant, though I really don't need it. I just have a DVR I have as an OTA backup on the off chance of rain fade and just something for it to do. If I have a receiver up there, might as well have it do something since I rarely record more than 5 things anyway.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

If the Directv receivers/clients supported DLNA to other sources then you could buy a device from third parties like SiliconDust and have it tune the channels and stream them to your receivers. They'd just need to keep supplying the guide data. The DLNA support would be useful for other things, like streaming video from a PC or smartphone (handy for people who don't have set tops like a Roku or a smart TV)

Lots of ways to do it, but unfortunately the easiest choice may be for Directv to drop it. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

From my inquiry to the OOTP to try and get some clarity on the question of the AM21(N) and any future OTA solution.

Subject: AM21(N) OTA tuner module discontinued?

10/22/15
Hello; 

Was hoping you can shed some light on the current state of DIRECTV's Over-The-Air ("OTA") digital TV tuner solution for their DVRs and STB receivers now that according to many CSRs and field techs. I've spoken to or read on internet discussion boards, the AM21(N) has been discontinued.

There has been no official warning or information about this change issued. 

Is DIRECTV planning to no longer offer a terrestrial broadcast OTA solution for their receivers?

Thank you for any info. you can provide in this matter as it is confusing.

Regards;

S.

Response from DIRECTV's OOTP 10/23/15:

Good Afternoon S.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us in regard to your concerns with the AM21(N).

Effective, 09/25/2015, DIRECTV no longer offers the AM21. We will continue to provide support for customers who currently have this equipment.

We do not currently have plans to provide an alternative to the AM21 for the integration of off-air signals into the on-screen guide.

I hope you have a great day and a fantastic weekend!

Tasa
Office of the President
DIRECTV | Now part of the AT&T family
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh well, outside of third party purchases, guess that's officially it for the AM21(N) (except for maybe replacements) or the hope of any future OTA solution. 

My OTA TIVO is now a permanent resident here I suppose.





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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Well at least they don't have any plans to phase out support. By the time they do, things may have changed a lot and there's a better way to integrate Directv and OTA via totally separate devices (i.e. using something like Vidipath)


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> Well at least they don't have any plans to phase out support.


Did you forget your sarcasm tag there?

I never talked with a CSR who knew what it was and no sense telling them the stations available in a market was often incomplete.

Since the support provided was non-existent, I guess continuing it won't put a strain on their resources.

But then again, their business is delivery of media via satellite. I was surprised DIRECTV even provided an OTA option.

Thanks for checking on the status of the AM21.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

By 'support' I meant continuing to provide guide data, leaving the code in place in the firmware so the receivers can talk to the AM21s, etc.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Glad I got mine when I did.

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## TXD16 (Oct 30, 2008)

trh said:


> But then again, their business is delivery of media via satellite. I was surprised DIRECTV even provided an OTA option.


My understanding is that Dish, whose "business is the delivery of media via satellite," offers a fairly elegant and well-integrated OTA solution. Most of the other major MVPDs, whose business is the delivery of media primarily via fiber or cable, include most or all of the "major" English-language sub-channels (MeTV, COZI, Moives!, GetTV, etc.) in their respective lineups, obviating the need for an OTA solution for the overwhelming majority of their subscribers who wish to receive such programming.

In this instance, it would appear that DIRECTV is the obvious outlier.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

TXD16 said:


> In this instance, it would appear that DIRECTV is the obvious outlier.


But if it doesn't hurt their revenue much due to subscribers choosing alternatives because they can't get the subchannels they want on Directv, it is a good business decision even if we don't like it. Given the tiny penetration of AM21s and how few customers (or even CSRs) knew about it, it obviously isn't a factor for very many people.


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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

slice1900 said:


> But if it doesn't hurt their revenue much due to subscribers choosing alternatives because they can't get the subchannels they want on Directv, it is a good business decision even if we don't like it. Given the tiny penetration of AM21s and how few customers (or even CSRs) knew about it, it obviously isn't a factor for very many people.


Yep the tech I had not too long ago to install my Genie Mini 4K had NO Idea what the AM21 even is let alone what subchannels over the air for that matter.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

AngryManMLS said:


> Yep the tech I had not too long ago to install my Genie Mini 4K had NO Idea what the AM21 even is let alone what subchannels over the air for that matter.


Same here on my most recent service call back in early Sep.

Tech had never seen an AM21 until then. His first words after seeing one here were "what's that?"

In fact after swapping out receivers here with the AM21 attached, he did not try and even hook up the AM21, but left it to me. Said that will have to be my responsibility as he was totally unfamiliar with it.

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## AngryManMLS (Jan 30, 2014)

HoTat2 said:


> In fact after swapping out receivers here with the AM21 attached, he did not try and even hook up the AM21, but left it to me. Said that will have to be my responsibility as he was totally unfamiliar with it.


That USB cable must be hard work to hook up.


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## lzhj9k (Mar 14, 2009)

Good Morning..

I just received a delivery from Fed Ex of 3 (three) AM22P-700's

I ordered via Chat on Thursday of last week

They include an AM22 Off Air Tuner Manual (Manual de Usuario)
along with a Duplicated AM21 Off air Tuner (User Guide)

I do not have the protection plan and the cost for each was 50.00 plus tax

Mike


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## dtparker (May 24, 2007)

Where did you procure these AM22s? one of my AM21s died, and the DirecTV Protection Plan won't help....


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## DD1509 (Jan 3, 2017)

Update to this thread which is a bit old now. Talked to a DirecTV CSR today and she found the AM21 in the system and offered it for $50. I told her I hoped it was free since we were a long-term customer and she said she could send it free! Wow...a great find! So, DTV guys there is still hope if you want to add OTA to your newer DTV receiver. I have heard it works ok with the HR44 Genie, which is what I have. Will know in a few days. There are some good install instructions on Amazon from users who added it to newer DTV receivers. As a note, I am dealing with loss of NBC and also NBC MY58 in the Sacramento market due to a price negotiations with the owners. NBC went away at midnight new years eve. Hope it will be solved soon but at least I can get it on my small outdoor antenna. Just would rather have it integrated into the DTV guide and DVR recordings.
DD


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## bnwrx (Dec 29, 2007)

I've had one hooked up to my HR44 for a couple years now. I got it for the same reason you are.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

DD1509 said:


> Update to this thread which is a bit old now. Talked to a DirecTV CSR today and she found the AM21 in the system and offered it for $50. I told her I hoped it was free since we were a long-term customer and she said she could send it free! Wow...a great find! So, DTV guys there is still hope if you want to add OTA to your newer DTV receiver. I have heard it works ok with the HR44 Genie, which is what I have. Will know in a few days. There are some good install instructions on Amazon from users who added it to newer DTV receivers. As a note, I am dealing with loss of NBC and also NBC MY58 in the Sacramento market due to a price negotiations with the owners. NBC went away at midnight new years eve. Hope it will be solved soon but at least I can get it on my small outdoor antenna. Just would rather have it integrated into the DTV guide and DVR recordings.
> DD


I hate to rain on your parade (of course I hope you're right and they are in stock again), but I ordered 6 replacements back on October 3, 2016 via a CSR who found them in the system too, said they were in stock, and yet to be delivered at my front door. It was through the protection plan and there was to be no charge for the AM21 (latest was AM22), and free shipping too. I called a week later, and that CSR said absolutely none in stock in any distribution center, so the order would not be fulfilled. However, she did not cancel the order. I have a standing email from DirecTV showing the confirmation number and all, but nothing has been fulfilled to date.

Solid signal ran out of them in October as well I believe, and currently shows discontinued. You can still find some used ones on eBay now and then, but check the pricing. The supply/demand curve pricing has fluctuated quite a bit compared to DirecTV's previous pricing!


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## litzdog911 (Jun 23, 2004)

Last I checked eBay they were running between $100-$150


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## DBSSTEPHEN (Oct 13, 2009)

I have a AM21N that I'm not using anymore

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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

Anyone know what (if any) level of support for OTA on an HR20 is. I went through setup and only got two FOX sub channels. I don't know if my antenna is lacking or no more guide support.


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

drpjr said:


> Anyone know what (if any) level of support for OTA on an HR20 is. I went through setup and only got two FOX sub channels. I don't know if my antenna is lacking or no more guide support.


Basically the same support as the AM21. Sounds like you need a better antenna. Go to tvfool.com and see what it tells you about OTA at your location.
And what is your zip code?


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## drpjr (Nov 23, 2007)

95828. Nice site. I need a better antenna. There are plenty of channels available with out much effort. Thanks


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

There is a limitation in the database, where any station ID that is higher than 65535 will never be added. Though that shouldn't be an issue for the major networks in a major city.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

dpeters11 said:


> There is a limitation in the database, where any station ID that is higher than 65535 will never be added. Though that shouldn't be an issue for the major networks in a major city.


Except for any more recent sub-channels a station my launch. Then the database is inadequate for even the major markets.

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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Except for any more recent sub-channels a station my launch. Then the database is inadequate for even the major markets.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk


Depends. If it's replacing an old channel it could use the old id.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Except for any more recent sub-channels a station my launch. Then the database is inadequate for even the major markets.
> 
> Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk


True, but i wasn't considering a sub channel to be a major network 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## o7RAVENS (Oct 28, 2007)

I'v been using the am21 for some years now and if it goes bad and direct can't fix or do anything about it I'm off to Comcast.
We love and need the sub channels.
Comcast carries all of them on their regular service.


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## ejbvt (Aug 14, 2011)

o7RAVENS said:


> I'v been using the am21 for some years now and if it goes bad and direct can't fix or do anything about it I'm off to Comcast.
> We love and need the sub channels.
> Comcast carries all of them on their regular service.


In the Burlington VT DMA, with the AM21, there are more subchannels on Directv than local cable company. Comcast does not carry Grit, Laff, Escape, or Bounce but the AM21 has Laff and Escape in the database. I don't know if I would leave Directv over it, but the AM21 is one of my favorite parts of Directv.


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

If my AM21 quits, at least there is an OTA HD replacement with the Magnavox and TiVO OTA (no sub fee). I don't need them now, but at least there is something there to record in HD. I have an old one (Mag) that does SD.


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