# 50x/510 NBR?



## MrAkai (Aug 10, 2002)

As we approach the end of 2005, I figured now would be a good time to drag out the old promise of NBR on the 501/508/510 DVRs.

There are mulitple sources (including Charlie himself) who promised this feature in no uncertain terms. 

Any idea if this framing is still in play or has it changed? If it's changed, then they'll get an earful from me.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

There are always possibilities ...
Nothing more has been publicly stated since the last "promise" on Charlie Chat".

JL


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

I have not heard of any change in these plans.


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

Is it time to ask this question again, we are running out of days in 2005 for NBR on these units, has anyone heard anything


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I think it is total BS that the CEO of the company can broadcast lies to his subscribers. The fact that he promised this feature over a year ago and the fact that no CSR has information on if or when it will be released is wrong. I've been with Dish for over 5 years and have my D* install scheduled for next week. Anybody holding hope on NBR can PM me if they want to buy my stuff...
1 510 
1 508
2 721
1 811

Charlie will no longer get my $110 sub for AEP, Supers and HD Pack. He simply doesn't deserve it!


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## busboy789 (Oct 25, 2003)

When I cancelled tonight the csr asked me about why I was leaving. I gave him a number of reasons name based recording was one that he had NO reply for.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MikeW said:


> the fact that no CSR has information on if or when it will be released is wrong.


If the CSR gave you any answer other than the 'alpha testing' mention from the November Tech Forum they would be wrong (and CSRs don't generally talk about testing).

JL


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

James Long said:


> If the CSR gave you any answer other than the 'alpha testing' mention from the November Tech Forum they would be wrong (and CSRs don't generally talk about testing).
> 
> JL


So, do you think it is still coming, JL?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

I have a 501, so I'd love to see NBR... but I have a sneaking suspicion that if they are going to want to replace (eventually) all non-MPEG4 receivers in the field... there will be little effort put towards adding new features to older receivers.

Bug-fixes maybe... but new features... I won't hold my breath.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

langlin said:


> So, do you think it is still coming, JL?


Yes.

Every once in a while my boss opens his mouth and says "we are doing ..."
And then someone has to figure out how to do it. :grin: I'm someone.  
Sometimes he thinks the task is trivial and doesn't understand the work involved.
Sometimes he doesn't understand all of the challenges to make it work right.

The amazing thing is that 'someone' often figures out how to get it done, no matter how much work is involved. The how and how quick is what is hard to guess. (I tend to follow Scotty's rule of multplying time estimates to get the reputation of a miracle worker. But that can lead to miracles being EXPECTED.)

The 501/508/510 series receivers are going to be around for a long time. E* might as well get NBR working.

JL


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

James Long said:


> Yes.
> 
> Every once in a while my boss opens his mouth and says "we are doing ..."
> And then someone has to figure out how to do it. :grin: I'm someone.
> ...


Is your boss the CEO of the second largest satellite company in the world? Does your boss go live on TV to every single customer he has and tell them that they are going to get something within a specific time frame only to not perform and then ignore the promises?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I'm sorry, did you accidentally read a promise out of an expectation? :grin: 
Did you also overestimate the size of Charlie Chat audiences? 

JL


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=339412#post339412

It's been over a year since we first started talking about the broken promise. My how time flies....


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

JL...The broadcast is available to every sub. A promise into an expectation????What???? He said it was coming almost 2 YEARS AGO! Bottom line...Dish hangs their customers on "future enhancements" that rarely, if ever, come. I think Dish would be better off not having Charlie bounce his wild ideas on a chat to his customers. It's early here in Tucson...if you want to get into a pissing match...let the games begin!


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I prefer these links myself:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=350170#post350170
and
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=395342#post395342

I really like the second one!
"Probably roll it out just in time for the MPEG4 replacements. "

I've knocked E* enough about NBR to know the history of the issue.
And I still believe that they WILL have NBR on the 501/508/510 within the next few months.

Oh, and note WHO is speaking in each of the clips in the first post.

JL
PS: Be civil.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

My apologies. I felt your previous comments were insulting my belief that Dish should deliver what they promised. I now understand you were most likely being sarcastic about Dish.

Like I said, I made my demonstration to Dish by cancelling my service. I wish there was more I could do to make Charlie live up to his own words. 

Thanks for the quotes from the CCs of the past. It sure goes to show that Dish knew how much this meant to the subs and demonstrates their complete lack of integrity.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

You keep coming back to the word promise ...
Believe me, I thought I heard that word too, but it just isn't there.

JL


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

A matter of symantics. Charlie doesn't have to say "I promise" for me to assume a promise. As a customer, when the CEO says a feature is coming, I assume that to be a promise. Why, JL, as a moderator, do you have to mince words like this? You know what I meant, why harp on the details?


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/promise

promise

a verbal commitment by one person to another agreeing to do (or not to do) something in the future

Note: You don't have to say I PROMISE to make a promise.

(pissing contest does continue and apology emphatically reversed!)


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Not to argue semantics... but if I took everything that I ever heard anyone say "was coming in the future" then that would be a lot of promises!

Where's my matter transporter? And my time-travel machine? And my faster-than-light spaceship? And the colony on the moon? And the self-cleaning clothes that I never have to wash?

Usually when I hear someone say "I believe we are working on that, for sometime in the future"... I take that to mean "You surprised me with that question, and either I don't have an answer OR the answer is so badly negative that I know better than to be truthful, so I'll just say something and move on before you have a chance for follow-up to pin me down further."


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## ebaltz (Nov 23, 2004)

It will probably come when they can actually get it to work, so as we know, that is going to take them some time (See 921).


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

MikeW said:


> Why, JL, as a moderator,


There you go again. Do you see me signing the posts above as James Long, Moderator, DBSTalk? Nope. I'm not talking *AS* a moderator when I talk about NBR. (Yes, the moderator rank shows up on all my posts - even the ones made before I was moded - I've got over 3500 posts on the system that were made before I became a moderator. If I post AS a moderator, I'll let you know.)

I know you are ticked about NBR. Look at my posts on the issue and see that I was as ticked as you are. Also note that I made the same mistake that you continue to make to read a promise where there was none. Ron Barry corrected me on that one.

But, as a moderator, I'll say that a "pissing contest" will not be tollerated.

You have spoken your opinion on the matter, I have spoken mine. You believe there was a promise by a date, I do not. Let's move on.

JL


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ebaltz said:


> It will probably come when they can actually get it to work, so as we know, that is going to take them some time (See 921).


Exactly. At least from the continued references to it (the last one being in November) we know they are not just sweeping it under the rug never to be completed. It is just going to take time.

JL


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

JL, thank you for the information on NBR, not to continue the ranting but I really hate it when I come to the forum to get information or ideas from others and have the thread highjacked by someone that no longer even has a 510 and just wants to bash Dish. I have a 510 and will continue to have a 510 and really want Dish to continue to update the software because I could use NBR on the 510. I don't need NBR on the 921 because we only record HD on that unit and with only 25 hrs to use we must manage it closely while we use the 510 to record many shows. One big need is for special shows like "Monk" and "Closer" that aren't on a regular schedule and "pop" up without fanfare at times. We also need it for shows like "a Touch of Frost", "Morse" , "Jonathan Creek","Peroit" and other English Mysteries that pop up on different channels now and then without warning. Once again thanks, JL, for your insight, I hope you are correct and we get NBR early next year.


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## navychop (Jul 13, 2005)

Let's see- when Dish does not make announcements, we get upset that they are "hiding" things and "keeping us in the dark." Even for something that they could not possibly have fixed plans for, like MPEG-4 transmissions rollout (depends upon Echostar X success, greater efficiency of encoders, manufacturing, etc). When they do tell us something, and it's delayed, they're "liars." 

They can't win. So they might as well say as little as possible.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Boy this thread sounds familar and yes there has been a lot of talk in the past regarding what is a promise and what is not. We all have different opinions about that. There is also the concept of FUD, versus rumor, versus plans, vs the truth. We all have our lines that we draw when we here statements. Some take CEO words in all forums as promises or the truth while others see them as statment at a given point of time that my or my not change. Personally the only time I take a CEO's word is when legally bound by rules and laws. Even then I keep both eyes open because stuff happens. Great example is Bill Gates.. He has done this numerious times in public forums. Ever here of Longhorn? 

What amazes me is that people will look at every word Charlie says and expect it all to be true, but then they will take other people, with less credentials, statements verbatim and forget about those statements later on when they turn out to be false. 

There is a lot of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and denial) being floated on the net. Lot of statements that are presented as fact that turn out to be false. The beauty of the internet is that everyone has a voice. The ugly of the internet is that everyone has a voice.  The trick is that each one of us needs to make the decision what we choose to believe. 

Going off a little on a side note. my point and opinion is that CEOs and others in positions of authority when talking about forward plans should be taken with a grain of salt. Times change and plans change. Someone here said it best, You should only purchase a receiver for the features it has today. Promised future features may or may not come to light. One can argue if this is fair to the consumer or not, but in my opinion this is reality. 

I have said before that "Perception is only preceived reality, look closer and the real truth will be revealed". Companies and people try to create perceptions that may or may not mirror reality all the time. I challange anyone to take a moment and look whenever you feel something starts to not feel right. You might be suprised what you find. 

Ok.. I know i got a bit wierd here. Sorry about that but I felt it needed to be said. I am a software developer, we know Dish's track record and track record of other software companies. Like a lot of software projects, it takes longer than expected. Some do better than others in delivering on time but there is always a lot of unknowns, gotchas, and resource re-allocations that pop up during the development process. Like JL said there are indicators as recent as November that they are still woking on it and I have not heard of Dish stoping the development of NBR for the 50x series. Good signs to me..


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

langlin said:


> JL, thank you for the information on NBR, not to continue the ranting but I really hate it when I come to the forum to get information or ideas from others and have the thread highjacked by someone that no longer even has a 510 and just wants to bash Dish.


Did you not read before you posted? I have, in my possession, subscribed, a 510, 508 and two 721s. It's not that I want to bash Dish and somehow enjoy it. I am disgruntled over the FACT that Charlie said this stuff was coming TWO YEARS AGO and then makes occasional statements that it is coming. It still hasn't.

Hijacking a thread is to take it off topic. I am only responding to everybody elses apologetic stance towards Dish.

Yes, I have my DirecTV install scheduled for next week. It includes the HD Tivo and three DVR 80 Tivos. At that point, I will no longer care if the 5XX series ever has nbr. I also, probably, won't be seen much on the forums as I will be too busy watching TV.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

MikeW said:


> Did you not read before you posted? I have, in my possession, subscribed, a 510, 508 and two 721s. It's not that I want to bash Dish and somehow enjoy it. I am disgruntled over the FACT that Charlie said this stuff was coming TWO YEARS AGO and then makes occasional statements that it is coming. It still hasn't.


Hmmm has it been two years since E* stated NBR was coming specifically for the 50x series? Sure does not seem that long, but I could be wrong... How long as the 522 been out? As I recall that is when NBR was mentioned as coming and that the 522 would be the first followed by other PVRs. I remember this as being the point were assumptions were made that it would be on the 921. 

That can't be 2 years.... Can it? Boy if it is time surely flies or maybe I missed another point in time when D* stated NBR for the 50x series. Not trying to keep rocks throwing, I just don't recall it being that long.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Yes...the first time it was mentioned was on a Charlie Chat in February '04. Of course, not exactly two years, but close enough. I think the older we get, the faster the years go by.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Did a quick look at Feb Charlie Chat. There was an email quesiton in regards to NBR and the 510.



> Paul - DVR510 questions. Can the unit be programmed not to record? It's connected to a computer, so I don't care about recording with it. How about named based recording? How about being able to protect weekly recording?
> 
> Dan Minnick - 510 is always recording, and not possible to turn it off. Most people want to use it as DVR product. Think about getting a 301 or 311. Working on it now, start rolling it out mid-year. Also add protect weekly timers mid year with the named based recording.


Is this the comment you were referring to? Note.. answer was not from Charlie in Feb it was from Dan. Also, the question is multiple questions so Dan might be answering the first in regards to the 510 and then following up with NBR as a seperated topic. Hard to say since Dan does not specifically say 50x in his response.. Then again.. maybe NBR was planned and then pulled back because of resources.

I am sure we all would interpert this answer differently and I can see how based on the wording it can be interperted as you have MikeW. These guys really need to put qualifiers when they answer questions like. "Our plans are to...." when then answer these types of questions. This way they could control expectations to some degree.

Later on it because apparent that NBR is coming out on the 522. Remember there was also a statment made we would first see it on the 942. That did not happen either and was contridicted the 522 NBR first statment that happend in a previous CC.

Guess the Moral of the story. CC statements are forward statements and have a chance they may or may not happen. Which brings me back to the my orginal point of purchasing for what a product currently delivers and consider features that come later as icing on the cake.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The February 2004 quote is linked from my post earlier in the thread."Yes. We're working on that technology right now, we will start rolling it out mid-year. And that will start rolling out to all of our DVR products including the 510 series."​No "we promise" to that just a first mention. And it was said by Dan Minnick, not Charlie.

In fact, Charlie said NOTHING on ANY Charlie Chat throughout 2004 about NBR except in July:"Today we record by time, and a lot of our customers said we want to record by title, 'I want to record every Seinfeld episode'. We are going to change the software so that you can kind of order a season ticket where you just push a button once and every Seinfeld episode that is ever up there - if you want it. We'll give you some options for repeats or current shows or last year's shows and you'll decide what you want and it will record them no matter where they are in our 1000 channels. Just upgrades to the software to make it easier for you to use, based on comments and suggestions we actually got from our viewers."​No date promised there.

The August 2004 chat mentioned that "the 510 50x model series is scheduled for late in the year, first of next year." They have fallen behind schedule ... but find the words "WE WILL HAVE THIS BY ..." and I'll post them in bold characters.

We've been discussing NBR for two years but no dates were set. A rough "late this year" was mentioned so at best they are a year late ... MikeW's "two years" statements are exageration - and since he is leaving E* and seems only to want to pick a fight over the issue.

I believe the point has been made that E* is still working on NBR for these models. Constructive posts welcome, but this thread will not continue as a pissing match.

James Long


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Not picking a fight...speaking my mind


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Not to be off-topic... but I've never understood "pissing match" as a phrase anyway. I mean, just how would you win an actual "pissing contest"? And would you want to be the winner, when it means admitting to participating in the contest anyway?!

But back on topic... I would be immensely pleased to see NBR on my 501... but it is entirely possible that a year from now I'll have entirely different receivers in service anyway, so I can't say it would end my reason for living if it never materialized.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

They have one on the TV show "Distraction" using urination to ring the buzzer, but I don't know of any other real world example. MikeW brought it into the discussion - perhaps he would like to start a thread in an appropriate forum with the rules.

JL


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

<I've never understood "pissing match" >

Think it comes from male dogs staking territory. One claims a tree, the second claims the same tree, number one then reclaims the tree etc. Some times they stake their claims simultaneously.

Bob


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

MikeW said:


> Yes...the first time it was mentioned was on a Charlie Chat in February '04. Of course, not exactly two years, but close enough. I think the older we get, the faster the years go by.


 Goodluck with r-15..too bad the HD-tivo cant do mpeg-4 !!!


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

I am not sure that a tree is involved. Or dogs. But the rest is accurate.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

juan ellitinez said:


> Goodluck with r-15..too bad the HD-tivo cant do mpeg-4 !!!


I stayed away from their new DVRs. I get locals OTA which is all I really care about. I'll have the HD-Tivo and three DVR 80s.


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## langlin (Apr 8, 2005)

MikeW said:


> I stayed away from their new DVRs. I get locals OTA which is all I really care about. I'll have the HD-Tivo and three DVR 80s.


If all you care about is OTA, why are paying ANY satellite company $100 a month.


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