# Two new features coming to HotPass



## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Actually 3 new features, but two are coming for the next race and beyond.

The third feature is for next year....looks like HD is a go for HotPass assuming the next bird goes up without a hitch later this year. Obviously things can happen, but the plan is to bring HotPass in HD next year.

Now, moving forward...we are excited to announce two new features to NASCAR HotPass starting with the March 11th race in Las Vegas.

1) *Team only communications audio option.* For customers with interactive receivers (models D10, D11, D12, R15 or HR20) you will now have a third audio option which allows you to listen to team audio only. If you wish to listen to only the team communications, simply hit the yellow button on your white remote and select the "Team Audio" option from the on screen menu. You can always choose to switch back to "HotPass Audio" or the national broadcast audio (i.e. FOX) whenever you please during the coverage. Remember, you must have an interactive receiver for this option. The model number of your receiver is typically located on the back or bottom of the unit.

If you don't have an interactive receiver, you're not out of luck. You can utilize the SAP functionality of your receiver to listen to the dedicated team audio only. You can change audio using your remote's Audio or ALT Audio function, or by accessing the Audio option of your Menu.

2) *Fan voting for NASCAR driver selection.* Fans will have the option to vote online for the 5th driver featured (or channel) in select upcoming NASCAR HotPass race broadcasts. Fans can vote online from March 11th through March 18th to pick the 5th driver for the Food City 500 held at Bristol Motor Speedway on March 25th. DIRECTV will offer fans the opportunity to select a driver for every 5th race starting with Bristol. Check out NASCAR HotPass channels 795-799 during the UAW-DAIMLER CHRYSLER 500 in Las Vegas for more details on how you can vote online for the 5th driver

We thank you for making NASCAR HotPass such a success and continue to look forward to your suggestions throughout the NASCAR NEXTEL Cup season.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

Great news! Perhaps with these fine tuning steps, the nay-sayers will finally shut up. 

BTW, as one who has worked in television production for many years, I understand completely how daunting a new venture like this one can be, satelliteracer. I applaud your company's willingness to make the necessary corrections and listen to viewer feedback to make HotPass the best package it can be.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

Awesome information. What about during commercials? Will we be able to listen to the drivers during the commercials?


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## Thunder7 (Nov 16, 2005)

COOL! Love the 3rd audio option. Good move. Nice to see they are listening.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> Great news! Perhaps with these fine tuning steps, the nay-sayers will finally shut up.
> 
> BTW, as one who has worked in television production for many years, I understand completely how daunting a new venture like this one can be, satelliteracer. I applaud your company's willingness to make the necessary corrections and listen to viewer feedback to make HotPass the best package it can be.


Newshawk...thank you. Your kind words are appreciated. It's funny, I've been a DIRECTV subscriber since 1998 in the old USSB days (no local channels, almost no HD, etc). A Sunday Ticket subscriber since 2000. Like anything, things change. You look at NFL ST today vs back in 2000 and it's light years ahead of where it was in my opinion.

It is an ever evolving process and one where we strive to improve and enhance.

Our Early Bird customers are seeing races at about $2.14 each race for incredible access in terms of video and audio while never leaving the action. Our regular season customers about $2.68 a race. We believe we are delivering great value for the subscription price we are charging but will continue to make tweaks and improvements. It is what we do. Those improvements, however, have to be within the confines of a mutually agreed upon framework between NASCAR, DIRECTV and the networks.

Stay tuned for continued announcements


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

wmschultz said:


> Awesome information. What about during commercials? Will we be able to listen to the drivers during the commercials?


The contract requires we have to deliver the audio and video of the commercials when the networks go into a break.

Stay tuned....some other ideas on the table that might be available.


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## zipbags (Oct 14, 2005)

I understand they have to go to commercials. But, when something big happens (which always does when they are at commercials) they need to cut back to the race. Actually, this is more a complaint of Fox or whomever is airing the race.


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## Proc (Jan 19, 2006)

I've enjoyed Hotpass both weeks, but still can't get over the fact that my H20 receiver, which I've had since January 2006, still isn't interactive.

Anyone have any clue when the H20 will get the update to be interactive? This is getting stupid. The main HD receiver (non DVR) and it has less capability than the standard def receivers.


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## Mixer (Sep 28, 2006)

Arent the cars enough of an advertisment for this sport?

LOL

I mean seriously. 

It is great news though that they are going to have the team audio available. The fact that it is not in HD is the mojor reason i passed on it this year.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Proc said:


> Anyone have any clue when the H20 will get the update to be interactive? This is getting stupid. The main HD receiver (non DVR) and it has less capability than the standard def receivers.


All I can recommend is that make sure you are subscribed to the Cutting Edge notification thread,for the H20

Yes, the update is well overdue... and DirecTV has been working on it.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

I agree with proc. Directv needs to get the H20 interactive asap! That is one of the reason's I have not purchased the hotpass. I think it is a great deal. But, no interactive on the H20 is a deal breaker. Please activate this feature and I think you will get more people to buy Hotpass including me.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Proc said:


> I've enjoyed Hotpass both weeks, but still can't get over the fact that my H20 receiver, which I've had since January 2006, still isn't interactive.
> 
> Anyone have any clue when the H20 will get the update to be interactive? This is getting stupid. The main HD receiver (non DVR) and it has less capability than the standard def receivers.


Proc...good news. A little birdie told me around tax time it should be interactive. They are beta testing that now, but I think next month is deal unless they run into any snags.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> Proc...good news. A little birdie told me around tax time it should be interactive. They are beta testing that now, but I think next month is deal unless they run into any snags.


That is very good news. Maybe we can get it sooner as a CE?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mhayes70 said:


> That is very good news. Maybe we can get it sooner as a CE?


Hence why I recommended that you sign up and subscribe to the notification thread....


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Hence why I recommended that you sign up and subscribe to the notification thread....


I did back when the CE came out. I signed up for every receiver I have and I think that is a great thing you have going with us testing these Earl. Again GOOD JOB!


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> The contract requires we have to deliver the audio and video of the commercials when the networks go into a break.


Which practically guarantees subscribers miss out on most of the most important driver/crew chief communication. Somebody wasn't thinking when they signed the contract.

And that's fine, I just consider it a $79 lesson. I am sure as a 12-year A-list customer I could call and wrangle $79 in credits out of D*, but it was my fault for not waiting until the freeview was over to order.

Also, I attempted to cancel my auto-renewal which I was told I can't do until after the season. So my PDA now has a reminder set for November 19th to call and cancel.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Which practically guarantees subscribers miss out on most of the most important driver/crew chief communication. Somebody wasn't thinking when they signed the contract.
> 
> And that's fine, I just consider it a $79 lesson. I am sure as a 12-year A-list customer I could call and wrangle $79 in credits out of D*, but it was my fault for not waiting until the freeview was over to order.
> 
> Also, I attempted to cancel my auto-renewal which I was told I can't do until after the season. So my PDA now has a reminder set for November 19th to call and cancel.


A contract is a two way street with some give and take from both sides I'm sure you would agree.


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

I think you are missing option #3, the ability to cancel hotpass!

Seriously the subs want only 2 things, no commercials or their money back. Hd or no HD this package is DOA next year especially since the nascar numbers will probably be off 20% of so this season.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> A contract is a two way street with some give and take from both sides I'm sure you would agree.


This is partially good news.

But a better give and take would be to keep the bloated commercial view and give us the driver audio during commercials.

Either that, or bring back In-Car as an option to HP, but charge so much money that you keep it under a subscriber cap.


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

You've got to give them credit for making advancements so quickly though. 

The team audio option is well worth a "good job" alone. Who does not have more than one TV in earshot... Leave one on the national broadcast and the other on the team audio. 

Kudos!


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## jkimrey (Nov 24, 2005)

That's awesome news Satelliteracer.

I, for one, am glad that you guys are focusing on the things you CAN improve (such as in car audio), and not those things you no longer have control over (commercials).

Thanks again; I look forward to your feedback and insight throughout the year.



Satelliteracer said:


> Actually 3 new features, but two are coming for the next race and beyond.
> 
> The third feature is for next year....looks like HD is a go for HotPass assuming the next bird goes up without a hitch later this year. Obviously things can happen, but the plan is to bring HotPass in HD next year.
> 
> ...


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## toad57 (Apr 23, 2002)

Satelliteracer said:


> 1) *Team only communications audio option.* For customers with interactive receivers (models D10, D11, D12, R15 or HR20) you will now have a third audio option which allows you to listen to team audio only....Remember, you must have an interactive receiver for this option. The model number of your receiver is typically located on the back or bottom of the unit.


If you don't have an interactive receiver, try doing the steps for selecting a "Secondary Audio Program (SAP)". They won't be labeled as mentioned in the base topic, but will (probably) be listed as

English 1
English 2
English 3


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

toad57 said:


> If you don't have an interactive receiver, try doing the steps for selecting a "Secondary Audio Program (SAP)". They won't be labeled as mentioned in the base topic, but will (probably) be listed as
> 
> English 1
> English 2
> English 3


Exactly. It works perfectly every time on the other interactive channels for us TiVo folks (and the HR20, amongst others).


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## Hall (Mar 4, 2004)

Someone needs to edit the "headline" on the front page.... Grammar is a tough subject, I know.

_"You're feedback, has led to some changes with NASCAR Hotpass..."_

It is "*Your* feedback...".


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> Actually 3 new features, but two are coming for the next race and beyond.
> 
> The third feature is for next year....looks like HD is a go for HotPass assuming the next bird goes up without a hitch later this year. Obviously things can happen, but the plan is to bring HotPass in HD next year.
> 
> ...


 I think the changes are great. I really like Hotpass but one thing that makes me mad is the commericals. I dont have a problem with them being on the Hotpass channels, but keep it the little screen and have th in-car screen bigger. Also I think it could be up to the viewers choice whether to listen to the commericals or stay with the team audio. I had Nascar In-demand last year and the whole tv screen showed the in car camera and only had the team audio and no commericals. I like how Hotpass has the Fox Broadcast in the corner and has more cameras, but people want to see the smaller commerical screen and the bigger in car.


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## B.A.T.S (Oct 25, 2006)

From reading the numerous post Hotpass will NOT succeed if something is NOT addressed with the commercials and the pic size while running commercials.

I'm sorry but the little thumbnail pic w/o audio during commericals is NOT going to cut it. I'm guessing most people ordered Hotpass to be able to watch, listen & enjoy the race during the national commericals times. Right now it is NOT enjoyable. No audio, poor PQ, bad layout (running order covers teeny tiny screen). 

I understand that Hotpass has to run the commercials. So give the paying customer the option of listening to commercial or race communications, increase the race screen size & PQ, retool the layout and then Hotpass will be a MUST have!!


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

B.A.T.S said:


> From reading the numerous post Hotpass will NOT succeed if something is NOT addressed with the commercials and the pic size while running commercials.
> 
> I'm sorry but the little thumbnail pic w/o audio during commericals is NOT going to cut it. I'm guessing most people ordered Hotpass to be able to watch, listen & enjoy the race during the national commericals times. Right now it is NOT enjoyable. No audio, poor PQ, bad layout (running order covers teeny tiny screen).
> 
> I understand that Hotpass has to run the commercials. So give the paying customer the option of listening to commercial or race communications, increase the race screen size & PQ, retool the layout and then Hotpass will be a MUST have!!


 I agree, the paying customer should have the option of listening to commericals or the race communications. After all we do pay for the hotpass. And please get the commericals OFF the bigger screen and put the race ON the bigger.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

I don't subscribe to any of the other sports packages (but I do subscribe to HotPass - and I like it a lot). Are the other sports packages all commercial-free?



saleen351 said:


> I think you are missing option #3, the ability to cancel hotpass!
> 
> Seriously the subs want only 2 things, no commercials or their money back. Hd or no HD this package is DOA next year especially since the nascar numbers will probably be off 20% of so this season.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

edmartin said:


> I don't subscribe to any of the other sports packages (but I do subscribe to HotPass - and I like it a lot). Are the other sports packages all commercial-free?


No, because you aren't missing anything with other sports. I don't think it's fair to compare Nascar to other sports in that respect. However, it is fair to compare the package to previous products in the market...but we've covered that numerous times in other threads. Hot Pass is a cool thing, but it doesn't fill the hole of In-Car by far. D* needs to offer another, limited super-premium service in addition to HP.


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## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Mr. Satellite Racer,

Consider this a 'for what it's worth' post if you are keeping tabs for next season or beyond as far as better ways of implimenting the package.
First off, demographically, I would be considered a 'once-avid', now casual NASCAR fan. Mainly do to the 'dumbing down' of the race telecasts since the beginning of the FOX era. 

I would not pay the current $99 fee for the package in it's present form, as it is merely an addition to that 'commercial enterprise' the network broadcast has become.
Here is what I would pay for:

1) A Pay-per-View option for the programming. I am much more interested in races at tracks that provide more action, such as Bristol, Pheonix, Martinsville etc. Completely commercial free. 

2) Ability to choose which car I want to monitor. Having a predetermined set of 5 drivers each week limits the effectiveness of the pakage. 

3) Ability to select the camera angle(2) to view. 

4) Ability to select the Team audio only (which is comming from what I understand).

Perhaps, this will put me in a vast minority, but it is what I would need to get my dollars...


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

What are the odds of seeing the Busch and/or the Truck series added on? If nothing else on the weekends that they all race at the same track, it would give everyone more practice. You could even do without the announcers and just have the incar cams & audio.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

bonkthat said:


> No, because you aren't missing anything with other sports. I don't think it's fair to compare Nascar to other sports in that respect. However, it is fair to compare the package to previous products in the market...but we've covered that numerous times in other threads. Hot Pass is a cool thing, but it doesn't fill the hole of In-Car by far. D* needs to offer another, limited super-premium service in addition to HP.


But that's a completely different issue/argument.  HP is roughly $2.60/race. In terms of product delivered, I think it's better than Sunday Ticket or other D* sports packages in that it gives the "core" broadcast plus additional/specific views and additional/specific audio feeds. 

Nobody promised commercial-free
No other D* sports package is commercial-free
And all due respect, people are a little naive in economics if you dreamed you were getting it commercial-free for $2.60/race. 

I asked the rhetorical question in my previous post because it seems like people have lost site of all of those points (especially the one about other D* packages having commercials).

I'll agree with you that NASCAR isn't a sport with time-outs that lends itself well to the way other sports deliver the broadcast. If you want to have the discussion of whether there could be a better way to deliver NASCAR, then that's fair game. But trying to take HP at $2.60/race to task for that is not fair. It's like buying a VW bug and expecting to race Talladega but being mad when you can't (all due respect to Herbie & Lindsay Lohan).


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

edmartin said:


> But that's a completely different issue/argument. HP is roughly $2.60/race. In terms of product delivered, I think it's better than Sunday Ticket or other D* sports packages in that it gives the "core" broadcast plus additional/specific views and additional/specific audio feeds.
> 
> Nobody promised commercial-free
> No other D* sports package is commercial-free
> ...


1) I had In-Car for 4 years. 
2) I still want it.
3) D* needs to make a super-premium service for guys like me, because HP is a fraction of the previous product in the market.

How would you feel if you had an IPOD video, and then Apple decided to discontinue it, but offer a regular IPOD to you. In the place of the video feature, they give you audio tracks describing video content.

...and then some guy comes along and tell you your crazy for thinking you could get video on an IPod....


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

mhayes70 said:


> I agree with proc. Directv needs to get the H20 interactive asap! That is one of the reason's I have not purchased the hotpass. I think it is a great deal. But, no interactive on the H20 is a deal breaker. Please activate this feature and I think you will get more people to buy Hotpass including me.


You want it LESS stable than it is? Let them fix stability issues across the board before introducing a new feature.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

edmartin said:


> [*]Nobody promised commercial-free


Actually, yes they did. Dale Jr. specifically says you can hear EVERYTHING Tony Jr. and I say during the race.

Now I don't know your or D* meaning of everything, but I expect to be able to hear everything they say. If they want to substitute video for the audio, thats fine, but I want to hear what Dale Jr. says.

I fully expect there to be a CA suit over this and a complaint to the FTC for false advertising.

Again, I am sure I could call and get some credits, but it really is not that big of deal. Its my fault I signed up before the Freeview, but I won't resubscribe to this package in its current form.


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

bonkthat said:


> 1) I had In-Car for 4 years.
> 2) I still want it.
> 3) D* needs to make a super-premium service for guys like me, because HP is a fraction of the previous product in the market.
> 
> ...


 I agree theIn-car was awesome and I would pay for it again and again!!! I think Hotpass is on the right path but they need to focus more on the in-car cameras. The commericals bother me only because they take up mosof the tv and there is no way to tune out the sound of them. Its fine with me to have them on a small tiny screen like the in-car is during commericals. I feel strongly that the paying should be able to choose if they want to listen to the commericals or to the TEAM audio. A start would be making the national broadcast screen stay in the corner and stay small throughout the commericals.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

bonkthat said:


> 1) I had In-Car for 4 years.
> 2) I still want it.
> 3) D* needs to make a super-premium service for guys like me, because HP is a fraction of the previous product in the market.
> 
> ...


I didn't say you were crazy at all. I just think you are wanting a totally different product. That's fine... but remember that inDemand didn't succeed in NASCAR - hence HotPass. So really, it's like Apple let you play video on a Lisa and then replaced it with a Mac. You may or may not like the Mac but the Lisa failed. Or maybe a better analogy is betamax vs. VHS.

There may very well be a market for the "super premium" product. No doubt if there's money in it, NASCAR will go after it (as would any commercial entity).


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Actually, yes they did. Dale Jr. specifically says you can hear EVERYTHING Tony Jr. and I say during the race.
> 
> Now I don't know your or D* meaning of everything, but I expect to be able to hear everything they say. If they want to substitute video for the audio, thats fine, but I want to hear what Dale Jr. says.
> 
> ...


I'm not going to defend a specific word that a driver said in a single ad. It was a bad call on D*'s part to let that one through. But your argument hinges on a single word in a single ad. None of D*'s marketing (other than that 1 word in 1 ad) said no commercials. The pricing certainly doesn't indicate no advertising. No other D* sports package is advertising free. The freeview certainly wasn't advertising free. The evidence "against" seems significantly beyond 1 word in 1 ad.

Go ahead and feel a little mislead by Jr's 1 word in that ad (bad call), but ultimately, logic, pricing and examples across all other sports packages seem to pretty much outweigh that 1 poor choice of word in that ad.

Are you going to go after a class-action suit because Jr. isn't going to be on every week, too? He did say you can listen to "everything" he and Tony Jr. say. That seems to say every race, right?

I'm not trying to fight with you - really. But marketing is marketing.


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## mhayes70 (Mar 21, 2006)

Ext 721 said:


> You want it LESS stable than it is? Let them fix stability issues across the board before introducing a new feature.


Well, it was pretty stable until this last ce. But, luckly for me I am one of the few that not having any problems with the ce update. Interactive works for me and I love it!


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

How do you know it did fail? Other than taking Satelliteracer's word for it, and while I appreciate his posts and his work on this, he tends to slide around issues better than most politicians. I've not seen a single creditable outside source that claims the InDemand package was a failure, but if you have such a link I'd love to see it.

I've kind of suspected all along DirecTV got this package away from cable for one reason only; they agreed to air the commercials. Something I've stated a few times and it hasn't been denied yet.

BTW, the other package wasn't any more expensive without commercials, but I'd still gladly pay more to not have them if that's what it takes. Personally I don't think that is even an option, since I think it is in the contract that they have to air the commercials, so the cost issue isn't really relevant imho.



edmartin said:


> I didn't say you were crazy at all. I just think you are wanting a totally different product. That's fine... but remember that inDemand didn't succeed in NASCAR - hence HotPass. So really, it's like Apple let you play video on a Lisa and then replaced it with a Mac. You may or may not like the Mac but the Lisa failed. Or maybe a better analogy is betamax vs. VHS.
> 
> There may very well be a market for the "super premium" product. No doubt if there's money in it, NASCAR will go after it (as would any commercial entity).


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

You aren't the Ed Martin from NASCAR Heat by chance are you?


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

Tom_Oliver said:


> You aren't the Ed Martin from NASCAR Heat by chance are you?


Same guy. Papyrus before that, EA Sports after.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

Tom_Oliver said:


> How do you know it did fail? Other than taking Satelliteracer's word for it, and while I appreciate his posts and his work on this, he tends to slide around issues better than most politicians. I've not seen a single creditable outside source that claims the InDemand package was a failure, but if you have such a link I'd love to see it.
> 
> I've kind of suspected all along DirecTV got his package away from cable for one reason only; they agreed to air the commercials. Something I've stated a few times and it hasn't been denied yet.
> 
> BTW, the other package wasn't any more expensive without commercials, but I'd still gladly pay for more to not have them if that's what it takes. Personally I don't think that is even an option, since I think it is in the contract that they have to air the commercials, so the cost issue isn't really relevant imho.


I said it didn't succeed - sort of the difference between innocent and not guilty, I guess. But it doesn't exisit any more, does it? Directv has the deal. NASCAR inDemand isn't around. It didn't succeed.

You may be right that it was a play where D* agreed to commercials and NASCAR went with them. I have no insider info either way on that. It may also be simple economics where the math didn't work. It may also be that for the "masses" straight-up in car + telemetry wasn't big enough to be cost-effective and/or profitable. When you think about it, inDemand was pretty much NASCAR.com's TrackPass telemetry plus in-car cam video. I tend to prefer the broadcast treatment & comentary of HP. But ultimately, the market will speak again. It'll be interesting to watch. But for now, I'm OK with them taking my $2.60/race for what I currently get with an eye toward it getting even better as time marches on.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

edmartin said:


> Are you going to go after a class-action suit because Jr. isn't going to be on every week, too?


I'm not going after a class action anything, but I do expect at least one to be filed somewhere.

And IIRC, that specific ad does disclaim that the drivers do change weekly. Plus given the fact that there is someone involved in the Hotpass here on these boards and hearing specifically about that commercial being misleading, why is it still running?

I know marketing is marketing and we should all expect to get less that what is promised, but at the same time, D* should step up to the plate and allow those who purchased this product sight unseen to get a pro-rated refund without threatening retention. It is called customer service.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Newshawk said:


> Great news! Perhaps with these fine tuning steps, the nay-sayers will finally shut up.


I will stop saying nay about this monumental waste of money once they stop making you listen to commercials! You can listen to commercials for free on FOX, and watch the commercials in HD!


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## HoodDEIfan (Mar 6, 2007)

edmartin said:


> Are you going to go after a class-action suit because Jr. isn't going to be on every week, too? He did say you can listen to "everything" he and Tony Jr. say. That seems to say every race, right?
> 
> I'm not trying to fight with you - really. But marketing is marketing.


I never expected there to be no commercials, I did however expect them to be separate from the FOX broadcast. When I ordered the plan over the phone I specifically asked the representative about the commercials and I was told "the service is being offered with limited commercial interruption." Well, if there is a single person that has watched more than 45 seconds of a FOX NASCAR broadcast that would agree that their breaks are "limited" then please let me know (FOX and NASCAR employees or family members don't count).

Basically, when I ordered I expected the special channels to have more in depth coverage of the drivers and the goings on "behind the scenes." I expected to hear Dale Jr and Tony Jr banter back and forth on the radio under caution and get some enjoyment out of it, but as of yet the most exciting thing I have heard on any of the channels is "car high...... clear." I expected that when the coverage was cut to commercial it wouldn't be while the announcers were in the middle of interviewing a crew member. And most importantly I expected that this $99 I payed would give me a break from the pathetic coverage that FOX offers. Instead I am stuck with cherry syrup on top of a turd. Sure, I get to see every move that whatever driver I am watching makes (in the smallest picture box imaginable), but I don't get anything more in depth than that. I have yet to see a pit crew interview that wasn't cut off by a FOX commercial and I have yet to see/hear any of the pit strategy discussed under caution.

I was lied to, and being the trusting person I am, I believed that lie. I spent $99 on a worthless package when I should have just bought TrackPass from NASCAR.com. Sure, the audio feeds go down about every 10 laps. But, at least in those 10 laps I could actually hear what I payed for. Oh yeah, and the menus work on TrackPass, can't even say that much about HP.

What was done here was not marketing. It was intentional misdirection. They diverted the attention from the package by using a high ranking celebrity feeding sweet lies into our innocent ears. They lied about services offered during the commercial and during the ordering process. And, they put themselves where I didn't think anybody else could go; on a pedestal even lower than FOX when it comes to NASCAR coverage.

Did I waste my $99? Yes. And I know I will never get it back as I have already been denied a refund (though they offered me a credit to my account, what a joke). But, I will sleep so much easier at night knowing that every day that goes by is one day closer to the demise of that company, and one day closer to when NASCAR coverage will be back in competent hands.


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## HoodDEIfan (Mar 6, 2007)

edmartin said:


> I said it didn't succeed - sort of the difference between innocent and not guilty, I guess. But it doesn't exisit any more, does it? Directv has the deal. NASCAR inDemand isn't around. It didn't succeed.


Oh man, how did I miss this one the first time around??? Whether or not something is still around has very little to do with if it was a success or not. I can put this into terms you can understand with your background with Papyrus and EA Sports.

Papyrus was completely successful. They built racing simulations that people still choose to this day over the EA Sports arcade garbage. But, EA still gets to put out that garbage because they had the money to buy the license. Now, inDemand was a very good product and given the opportunity people would choose it over HP. But, since D* had the money to buy the licensing then they got to shut down inDemand. Does that mean HP is better? No, it just means D* had enough money to spend.

But, when we will see who is a success is when it comes time to renew the licenses. NASCAR isn't stupid, EA has already pretty much lost their license to produce NASCAR games (due to dissatisfaction among customers) and I am sure D* will follow the same path for the same reasons.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

HoodDEIfan said:


> Oh man, how did I miss this one the first time around??? Whether or not something is still around has very little to do with if it was a success or not. I can put this into terms you can understand with your background with Papyrus and EA Sports.
> 
> Papyrus was completely successful. They built racing simulations that people still choose to this day over the EA Sports arcade garbage. But, EA still gets to put out that garbage because they had the money to buy the license. Now, inDemand was a very good product and given the opportunity people would choose it over HP. But, since D* had the money to buy the licensing then they got to shut down inDemand. Does that mean HP is better? No, it just means D* had enough money to spend.
> 
> But, when we will see who is a success is when it comes time to renew the licenses. NASCAR isn't stupid, EA has already pretty much lost their license to produce NASCAR games (due to dissatisfaction among customers) and I am sure D* will follow the same path for the same reasons.


I'm not going to turn this into a discussion of Papyrus vs. EA - I did both (and Hasbro Interactive in between). But your example of passionate Papyrus users vs. the mass consumer market for EA is very similar to this HP discussion.

This is about a product (HP) that maybe can appeal to the masses. inDemand did not - not enough. You can say that (insert EA or D*) "outspent" (insert Papyrus of inDemand) and forget the rest of economics right there if you want to rest on your current argument. But it's incomplete. I started at Papyrus before we even had the NASCAR license signed. It was a $0 industry. We pioneered it and eventually sold hundreds of thousands of copies (I was at Papyrus until after Sierra acquired us and I ran the online (Hawaii/NROS) operation). But Papyrus held on to a declining, passionate hobbyist product (deep simulation) on a PC platform while the mass consumer market moved to video consoles. Papyrus was not "completely successful" (take it from an insider and someone involved in all the negotiations). In fact, Vivendi shut Papyrus down because they weren't making it.

The last game I was responsible for at EA was about a $65 million seller (if it said "NASCAR Thunder", it was mine). EA didn't "outspend" Papyrus to win. The consumers spoke and the market decided. The pocketbook did speak, just not the one you think. Passion and economics don't always match. But the passionate people don't like to hear that. I understand that. But I also understand that I am not "the market" and my passion is not "the market". A sample-size of 1 is rarely statistically significant in business.

I don't know if HP will succeed or not. I tend to think it's still a niche product. Niche is OK - Sunday Ticket could be considered a niche, I guess, and it sure works. But I will say that HP is a lot more mass-market than inDemand was. Like it or not, it's been "Fox-ized". D* is taking a shot. We'll see. But inDemand did not make it. Not because D* wrote a bigger check (that may or may not be the case, but it's irrelevant). It's because they are going after a bigger, perhaps even different market.

It's that "different" part that makes the passionate upset - with EA vs. Papyrus or with HP vs. inDemand (or with VHS vs. betamax, etc). We've all had plenty of products in our lives that we liked but didn't make it and maybe we got upset with the successor. We've probably had ill-will toward the successor at times. But the market is speaking and you run into problems when your personal passion for something is regarded as "the market".

I'm going to go play on my Colecovision now. :grin:


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## Dorsey (Mar 6, 2007)

In response to Mr Martin's post, im a little confused.... you are stating that EA did what they did to the NASCAR series for money.... then why did they ATTEMPT to make a SIM and not carry on with the ARCADE games they have been making so much money from... 

To me this hotpass will fail, it already is... how do I know, I have been contacted by my cable company (because we get hotpass on cable not dish) and have been offered a credit towards any other package they offer because of the complaints they have recieved over the hotpass channels... I mean I didnt even complain I was contacted by them... they have gone as far to lower the price from 100.00 a year to 24.99 for the season...

So what I am saying is, yes numbers will speak, and it will only take a few other companys like ROGERS to pull from dish... and from what I understand the BELL exPressVu customers will be getting the same deals shortly... and I am pretty sure StarChoice has pulled it off completly from what I understand...


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

edmartin said:


> I don't know if HP will succeed or not. I tend to think it's still a niche product.


I agree that it is probably a niche product. But remember who the niche is: most buyers will be passionate race fans who want to be able to hear the same conversations they hear on their few visits to the track each year and instead they hear commercials.

Compare that to the NFLST sub many who fall into a couple of categories: They have moved away from their "home" teams and want to be able to watch them play, or someone like me that doesn't want to watch the same 3 teams that my local affilates show.

I did read that Chase Carey said in an interview that HP had 90K subs compared to 30K for iD. So maybe it will succeed, but I won't be one of the ones helping it unless some things change.


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## AdamL2388 (Feb 19, 2007)

Dorsey said:


> So what I am saying is, yes numbers will speak, and it will only take a few other companys like ROGERS to pull from dish... and from what I understand the BELL exPressVu customers will be getting the same deals shortly... and I am pretty sure StarChoice has pulled it off completly from what I understand...


ROGERS, BELL, COGECO, and STARCHOICE in Canada all offer HotPass COMMERCIAL - FREE, as they have some sort of agreement to just sub-out the commercials from Direc TV. Everything else is all the same just that we don't get any of the commercials, you guys over at Direc TV get.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Dorsey said:


> and I am pretty sure StarChoice has pulled it off completly from what I understand...


I could not find any reference to it on their website.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

AdamL2388 said:


> ROGERS, BELL, COGECO, and STARCHOICE in Canada all offer HotPass COMMERCIAL - FREE,


Way to fan the fire.


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## Dorsey (Mar 6, 2007)

AdamL2388 said:


> ROGERS, BELL, COGECO, and STARCHOICE in Canada all offer HotPass COMMERCIAL - FREE, as they have some sort of agreement to just sub-out the commercials from Direc TV. Everything else is all the same just that we don't get any of the commercials, you guys over at Direc TV get.


Must be new for rogers cause I get commercials.... Im getting a ton of Tim Horton and other crappy Canadian commercials...., I heard SHAW doesnt have commercials (but that is hearsay from another forum).... But I only ordered the NASCAR Hotpass for the season at 109.99 and now after I got off the phone with them this morning I now get the Super Sports Pak for free till September...

StarChoice has removed it completly...

Bell expressVu is the only one I am not sure about, I dont know anyone anymore with Bell (must be something wrong with it.... :hurah: ) only from what I read on other forums about the service at Bell...

And If I have to see that 15 million Canadians commercial again Im going to personally burn down a Tim Hortons (JUST KIDDING)


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## B.A.T.S (Oct 25, 2006)

edmartin said:


> But that's a completely different issue/argument. HP is roughly $2.60/race. In terms of product delivered, I think it's better than Sunday Ticket or other D* sports packages in that it gives the "core" broadcast plus additional/specific views and additional/specific audio feeds.
> 
> Nobody promised commercial-free
> No other D* sports package is commercial-free
> ...


What does other sport packages have to do with HP? I really don't care if other sport packages run commercials or not. I ordered HP assuming I would be getting total race communciations and not commericals every 15-20min.

I guess I was a little naive to think that when I early bird HP I wouldn't be getting every commerical & D* self promoting HP every chance it got. I guess you get what you pay for $2.60/commericals & a race.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

B.A.T.S said:


> What does other sport packages have to do with HP? I really don't care if other sport packages run commercials or not. I ordered HP assuming I would be getting total race communciations and not commericals every 15-20min.
> 
> I guess I was a little naive to think that when I early bird HP I wouldn't be getting every commerical & D* self promoting HP every chance it got. I guess you get what you pay for $2.60/commericals & a race.


Well, if other offerings in the same category aren't a real good indication, I'm not sure what is. So you should care (or better put, you should at least consider) that every other D* sports package is not commercial-free. Expecting that HP wouldn't be like that is probably a little naive. Does anyone expect that the MLB package will be commercial-free? I expect more disappointment if that's the case.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

You guys are comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to compare NASCAR to other sports compare it to Soccer.

The difference between the Hot Pass and the other sports packages is that DirecTV does not PRODUCE the content like they do on Hot Pass. All they do for the MLB, NHL, NCAA, and NFL (outside of the RZ channel), is authorize the feed to your box.

Commercials are expected with every other sports package because that is how the feed is, but given that DirecTV is actually PRODUCING this content, then I can't really fathom why you all keep trying to compare this to the others.

I don't recall seeing commercials on the Redzone channel during the NFL season.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

Dorsey said:


> In response to Mr Martin's post, im a little confused.... you are stating that EA did what they did to the NASCAR series for money.... then why did they ATTEMPT to make a SIM and not carry on with the ARCADE games they have been making so much money from...


EA has continued forward with their arcade games very successfully on the video consoles - still north of a million units+/year. The PC is a different platform and a different market. What we did do (I was there at the time) was to hire the developer that had done all of EA's F1 PC games. That technology allowed for sim elements and arcade elements - again, to go after a broader market.

The hard-core sim guys don't like to hear it but it worked. EA's games sell well and Papyrus is no longer around.

But I think we should get back to discussing HotPass.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

The EA sports talk is hijacking this thread.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Sorry guys, my original post said you would need an interactive receiver. That is not the case.

For those of you with older receivers (non-interactive), you can utilize the different audio channels via the SAP functionality of your receiver so take advantage of that this weekend.


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

wmschultz said:


> You guys are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> If you want to compare NASCAR to other sports compare it to Soccer.
> 
> ...


D* produces SOME of the content for HP. They also included the packaged content from the main broadcaster (Fox at this point in the season). And has been discussed previously, to pull off what they are doing, the give-back to the broadcaster was to show their commercials.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

I know that, just stop comparing it to all the other sports packages.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

wmschultz said:


> You guys are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> If you want to compare NASCAR to other sports compare it to Soccer.
> 
> ...


Yes, DIRECTV is producing NASCAR HotPass but the contract stipulates we have to carry the commercials. I don't know how to make it any clearer. 

No commercials = no dedicated 5 driver channels each week.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

B.A.T.S said:


> What does other sport packages have to do with HP? I really don't care if other sport packages run commercials or not. I ordered HP assuming I would be getting total race communciations and not commericals every 15-20min.
> 
> I guess I was a little naive to think that when I early bird HP I wouldn't be getting every commerical & D* self promoting HP every chance it got. I guess you get what you pay for $2.60/commericals & a race.


Actually $2.14 per race with some commercials (yet we never take you away from the action...so it's not commercial free but it's never totally away from the race either.)


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

wmschultz said:


> You guys are comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> If you want to compare NASCAR to other sports compare it to Soccer.
> 
> ...


But the RedZone channel was just "cherrypicking" segments from all available broadcasts at the time. While D* is producing the exclusive Hot Pass content, who is providing the main race feed? Hint: It's NOT D*. Now, I'm not privy to the details of the agreement that allows D* to carry the race feed from FOX/ESPN/TNT, I would imagine they have to take the feed straight from the producer.


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## B.A.T.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> Yes, DIRECTV is producing NASCAR HotPass but the contract stipulates we have to carry the commercials. I don't know how to make it any clearer.
> 
> No commercials = no dedicated 5 driver channels each week.


Seems someone signed a BAD contract - Commericals = END of Hotpass!!


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

You are missing my point.

The picture you get on your sreen from Hot Pass is being produced, thrown together, whatever by DirecTV. The Fox/TNT/ESPN feed is being produced by those producers, but the other two pictures from that screen are not.

So, yes, I expect commercials in the feed that DirecTV is using for the national feed. I just didn't expect the audio from that to be dominant in the DirecTV produced feed. Does that make sense?

I mean, I don't mind that that National broadcast goes to commercial, that is why I was paying for HotPass, so I could continue getting something during the commercial break on the National broadcast. I just didn't the national broadcast 
to dominate my screen during a commercial and then take over the audio.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Actually, yes they did. Dale Jr. specifically says you can hear EVERYTHING Tony Jr. and I say during the race.
> 
> Now I don't know your or D* meaning of everything, but I expect to be able to hear everything they say. If they want to substitute video for the audio, thats fine, but I want to hear what Dale Jr. says.
> 
> ...


Obviously we heard your input and have quickly modified this so you CAN hear EVERYTHING they are saying starting with race 3 of 37 races with the 3rd audio option. The intent was for this to happen anyway with the dedicated announcers so I'm not sure how anyone would say it was false advertising. The execution of the announcers and team audio sometimes overlapped. We realized that, we have made those modifications. We're trying guys, we really are.

Also, "drivers subject to change" is listed on all advertising because we certainly wouldn't put the same drivers on each week.

Next year, everything is in HD, but yet...commercials will continue.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

All I know is that it won't matter once ESPN takes over the Nextel Cup races, cuz I will use my DVR to get into sync with the Sirius provided MRN/PRN broadcast so I don't have to listen to Crusty Wallace.

Rusty is slowing becoming the John Madden of NASCAR broadcast.....

"Now there is a guy who goes faster when he presses the gas pedal"........


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

B.A.T.S said:


> Seems someone signed a BAD contract - Commericals = END of Hotpass!!


Anyone that has been in business knows a contract is a two way street I'm sure you will concur. It's a give and take process and a compromise for all parties. No one gets everything they want. There are certain deal breakers or "must haves" in any deal of any kind.

Commercials are a requirement. Has nothing to do with a good contract, bad contract or anything else...without the commercials, this package doesn't happen.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> Obviously we heard your input and have quickly modified this so you CAN hear EVERYTHING they are saying starting with race 3 of 37 races with the 3rd audio option.


Watch what you are saying because unless you let us hear the audio of the incar radio during commercials, we are
missing things. Especially during cautions when the communications can be most informative and commical.


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## B.A.T.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> Actually $2.14 per race with some commercials (yet we never take you away from the action...so it's not commercial free but it's never totally away from the race either.)


Thanks for the crumbs on this one. Could you please make the screen size a little smaller so I won't be able to see it at all. You are promoting the commericals more than your product by reducing the screen size during commericals.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

BattleScott said:


> Mr. Satellite Racer,
> 
> Consider this a 'for what it's worth' post if you are keeping tabs for next season or beyond as far as better ways of implimenting the package.
> First off, demographically, I would be considered a 'once-avid', now casual NASCAR fan. Mainly do to the 'dumbing down' of the race telecasts since the beginning of the FOX era.
> ...


My two cents on these

1) A pay per race option exists today. $29.99 for one race

2) That would require 43 channels each week of bandwidth capacity that would really be almost impossible (at least today)....I don't see that as physcially possible. Plus the costs of making all 43 available and having say 50,000 people sign up for Gordon and say 5 people for the 43rd driver....the costs would be enormous and would have to be passed down to the consumer to cover it. Just my two cents. It's a great idea and one that I think everyone at DIRECTV would love to do but I don't see a solution for the capacity it would require, let alone the production costs. Remember, just for doing 5 channels per week they had to add something like 80 employees, 10 announcers, 5 producers (1 per channel), all those camera operators, etc. So now you would have to take that up exponentially.

3) That would be very cool.....you never know....we do that with YES Network's baseball coverage where fans can select another camera on their own. Down the line....

4) Correct...coming this week on interactive receivers (yellow button) and for non-interactive receivers it would be your SAP functionality.

Hope that helps


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Tom_Oliver said:


> How do you know it did fail? Other than taking Satelliteracer's word for it, and while I appreciate his posts and his work on this, he tends to slide around issues better than most politicians. I've not seen a single creditable outside source that claims the InDemand package was a failure, but if you have such a link I'd love to see it.
> 
> I've kind of suspected all along DirecTV got this package away from cable for one reason only; they agreed to air the commercials. Something I've stated a few times and it hasn't been denied yet.
> 
> BTW, the other package wasn't any more expensive without commercials, but I'd still gladly pay more to not have them if that's what it takes. Personally I don't think that is even an option, since I think it is in the contract that they have to air the commercials, so the cost issue isn't really relevant imho.


There were three articles in the NY Times, WSJ and another paper over the weekend that talked about In_Demand's InCar series. It stated they had only 30,000 customers at their peak after 4 years. DIRECTV has more than tripled that in 2 races (despite having 16 million customers to sell to vs 75 million that cable had) and it continues to grow daily. The package was not "taken away" from InDemand in the sense you describe. DIRECTV has taken that old package and made it better. It's interactive now, it has 25 cameras vs 5. Next year it will be in HD. More innovations will continue.

As I mentioned to you previously...it is my understanding that InDemand wasn't required to show commercials because their number of subscribers was limited. Due to the number of subscribers that HotPass has, the contract calls for the commercials to be shown for obvious reasons (it protects the broadcasters and their rights).

For those of you with Sunday Ticket going back 10 years or longer, that service has changed as well. We used to be able to show all the games. Then, we had to blackout a limited number of games that were in local markets (the local CBS or FOX station wanted customers to watch their local broadcasts). Point being that as these special sports packages have developed, broadcasters have changed how they view them.

On the Canada side, I think that is comparing apples to ball bearings. NASCAR International handles those types of products. Different agreements, different requirements, different thresholds.

Broadcasters are savvy. They need to protect their investments and they do.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

edmartin said:


> No, because it's a very valid comparison. Especially when it comes to people's expectations that it would be commercial-free.


None of the comparisons between sport packages are exactly apples to apples, but the subscription service most like Hotpass was inDemand which was commercial free.

So it is not that big of stretch to assume Hotpass would be commercial free as the predecessor to it was.

I don't know if I made the assumption about it being commercial free or not. I did make the assumption that whoever dreamed up this package would be race fan savy enough to understand that true race fans want to hear the conversations that happen under caution between driver and crew chief.

Now how to bridge the abyss between the required commercials and providing those crucial communications, I don't know.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

wmschultz said:


> Watch what you are saying because unless you let us hear the audio of the incar radio during commercials, we are
> missing things. Especially during cautions when the communications can be most informative and commical.


You can hear everything on audio except during the commercials...you are correct....you will still listen to commercial audio when NASCAR HotPass must cut to commercials.

Now you know why the disclaimers for drug commercials are 30 minutes long. 

Just kidding guys. Trying to be lighthearted here. We're in race 3 and each week we've added a few things each race.

Incidentally, your comments on the cautions and team communications is heard loud and clear. All of us that call ourselves racing fans agree complete, including the talented folks producing HotPass. Stay tuned....


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> None of the comparisons between sport packages are exactly apples to apples, but the subscription service most like Hotpass was inDemand which was commercial free.
> 
> So it is not that big of stretch to assume Hotpass would be commercial free as the predecessor to it was.
> 
> ...


The abyss is being considered I can assure you....don't know if there is a viable solution, but there are many ideas on the table....stay tuned.

I see you are a Marshall fan....Battle for the Bell.


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## AdamL2388 (Feb 19, 2007)

Dorsey said:


> Must be new for rogers cause I get commercials.... Im getting a ton of Tim Horton and other crappy Canadian commercials...., I heard SHAW doesnt have commercials (but that is hearsay from another forum).... But I only ordered the NASCAR Hotpass for the season at 109.99 and now after I got off the phone with them this morning I now get the Super Sports Pak for free till September...
> 
> StarChoice has removed it completly...
> 
> ...


I am quite surpsrised that ROGERS has commercials on there HotPass, only because Rogers / Cogeco have the same super sports pack, and Cogeco gets there feeds from all games from Rogers, yet Cogeco offers the whole race without any commercials, and stays with the drivers whenever Direc TV goes to break. I now this because I have watched both races so far on HotPass.

On another note, I didn't know you could subscribe to HotPass alone without the ssp on Rogers? For only 26.99 a month for 7 leagues I am quite pleased with Cogeco and am not giving up this package anytime in the near future.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> (despite having 16 million customers to sell to vs 75 million that cable had).


Cable didn't have 75 million to sell. That is a bad statistic. You had to be a digital subscriber to have access to the service.

According to the numbers provided by National Cable & Telecommunications Association, there are on 65.6M cable subs and only 31.4M of them have digital cable as of December 2006.

So yes, D* has still sold more subscriptions. But D* also has the advantage of being the only provider. InDemand had to try and sell its service over multiple MSO's each with their own agendas.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> I see you are a Marshall fan....Battle for the Bell.


Did you go to OU?


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> Anyone that has been in business knows a contract is a two way street I'm sure you will concur. It's a give and take process and a compromise for all parties. No one gets everything they want. There are certain deal breakers or "must haves" in any deal of any kind.
> 
> Commercials are a requirement. Has nothing to do with a good contract, bad contract or anything else...without the commercials, this package doesn't happen.


 I understand that commericals are a requirement and that is fine with me. I dont understand why the commerical sreen has to be so BIG and the in-car camera so SMALL that you almost need a magnifying glass to see it. I would think at LEAST they could make the screens the same size. Knowing the commericals are not going away, is it possible to stay on the team audio throughout the commerical??? Since the customer is paying, they should have a choice of what they can listen to.


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## B.A.T.S (Oct 25, 2006)

edmartin said:


> Well, if other offerings in the same category aren't a real good indication, I'm not sure what is. So you should care (or better put, you should at least consider) that every other D* sports package is not commercial-free. Expecting that HP wouldn't be like that is probably a little naive. Does anyone expect that the MLB package will be commercial-free? I expect more disappointment if that's the case.


If MLB package is advertised that I won't miss a warm up pitch between innings then YES I probably would think that the MLB package is commercial free.

Try running a commerical in the middle of a baseball inning and see how that goes over with the MLB package fans. Your talking about two different animals here so please DO NOT compare the diff. sport packages.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

I think the Busch races are a good analogy.

A few years ago they had good ratings and attendance and now they are in a free fall. Why? Well imho it is because they trying to sell the series to the wrong market. They want the casual fans to watch the series, so they want a pile of Cup guys there, but the casual fans don't care about the Busch series. They never have and never will. Meanwhile they have alienated the hard core fan that did care by adding way too many Cup drivers, so their plan to expand the customer base has backfired.

It's the same thing with Hot Pass. They want to sell it to the casual fan, but that fan will never care. Meanwhile the hard core fans are getting an over-produced version of the raw in-car footage and communication that we want.

In short, no one is happy.



Herdfan said:


> None of the comparisons between sport packages are exactly apples to apples, but the subscription service most like Hotpass was inDemand which was commercial free.
> 
> So it is not that big of stretch to assume Hotpass would be commercial free as the predecessor to it was.
> 
> ...


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## edmartin (Nov 15, 2006)

B.A.T.S said:


> If MLB package is advertised that I won't miss a warm up pitch between innings then YES I probably would think that the MLB package is commercial free.
> 
> Try running a commerical in the middle of a baseball inning and see how that goes over with the MLB package fans. Your talking about two different animals here so please DO NOT compare the diff. sport packages.


B.A.T.S., I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake or arguing but it's you that needs to come off of "DO NOT compare". I'm not comparing the sports, I'm comparing the D* sports products and basic economic realities. Fox, TNT, NBC & ABC all run ads in the middle of a NASCAR race. The sport doesn't lend itself to broadcast-breaks like the stick & ball sports do. That's life. It's been that way since the first NASCAR race was broadcast.

But it's totally reasonable to compare the D* sports packages. All of them have advertising. Assuming otherwise when HP came out is/was naive. It's silly to argue that just because NASCAR is a different type of sport that D* was going to come up with some magical way to broadcast without ads. At least not without digging much deeper into our pockets to make the network and advertisers whole.

By the way, you do realize that David Hill from Fox is the man behind HP. Do you really think the guy in charge of Fox Sports isn't going to make sure the advertisers are happy? That's a bit of an aside but probably a relevant point.


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## B.A.T.S (Oct 25, 2006)

edmartin said:


> B.A.T.S., I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake or arguing but it's you that needs to come off of "DO NOT compare". I'm not comparing the sports, I'm comparing the D* sports products and basic economic realities. Fox, TNT, NBC & ABC all run ads in the middle of a NASCAR race. The sport doesn't lend itself to broadcast-breaks like the stick & ball sports do. That's life. It's been that way since the first NASCAR race was broadcast.
> 
> But it's totally reasonable to compare the D* sports packages. All of them have advertising. Assuming otherwise when HP came out is/was naive. It's silly to argue that just because NASCAR is a different type of sport that D* was going to come up with some magical way to broadcast without ads. At least not without digging much deeper into our pockets to make the network and advertisers whole.
> 
> By the way, you do realize that David Hill from Fox is the man behind HP. Do you really think the guy in charge of Fox Sports isn't going to make sure the advertisers are happy? That's a bit of an aside but probably a relevant point.


I think we agree to disagree regarding the comparison of sport packages.

I understand what your trying to say but it is all in how the package is presented to the public. Hotpass indicated in advertisments that you will never miss any of the live action & Little E indicates in the TV ad that you can hear EVERY word bet. 
him and Tony Eury Jr. - This is NOT the case.

I know commercials are a necessary evil. It is just how everything is present in Hotpass that I don't like (as of right now) - Examples:

1) Race auido is omitted during commericals
2) Large commercial screen while race pic size is minimized way way way to small in corner of TV. 
3) Picture quality of on-car camera is terrible
4) Bad Real time stats (speeds, rpm's, running order)
5) Layout not user friendly (running order covers race screen during commercials)

As Satelliteracer indicated this is a work in progress and I'm sure alot of improvements will be made. I just wish Hotpass would provide what it advertised.


----------



## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

_Final TV ratings for Sunday's Nextel Cup race at California Speedway were down nine percent off the same race in 2006, giving NASCAR a slow start to the 2007 season.

The race received a 6.7 final rating, down from a 7.4 in 2006, according to Nielsen Media Research. The Busch Series race on ESPN2 received a 2.1 national rating, matching the 2006 race which was shown on FX.

The season-opening Daytona 500 drew a 7.0 percent rating on Fox, down three percent from last year's 7.2._

1 of two things will happen:
1. They ditch the commercials to try and save HP
2. HP is gone next year..

Nascar has to do what is right for the sport and end the freaking season on Labor Day Weekend! Sure track owners will be pissed but it was the risk they took to build the track.


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## HoodDEIfan (Mar 6, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> There were three articles in the NY Times, WSJ and another paper over the weekend that talked about In_Demand's InCar series. It stated they had only 30,000 customers at their peak after 4 years. DIRECTV has more than tripled that in 2 races (despite having 16 million customers to sell to vs 75 million that cable had) and it continues to grow daily.


Ok, so with 90,000+ subcsribers paying the $2.17/race, HP generates almost $200,000 per race. Now, since you are admittedly doing very little production of your own I can't imagine the cost of producing 5 channels is even close to what it costs for FOX to produce their stuff for one. I mean, how hard is it to piggy back a signal? Get rid of the commentators since they suck anyways and save yourself a little more money. No commentators and running a piggy backed signal means you can probably get away with one producer for all five channels. Then, let the fan choose to hear the in car audio instead of the commercials. I would bet that by race 6 your numbers would easily be double what they are right now. Easy way for D* to make $15 million with little costs.

Oh yeah, and advise your reps not to lie to your customers, it isn't good for business


----------



## BattleScott (Aug 29, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> My two cents on these
> 
> 1) A pay per race option exists today. $29.99 for one race
> _Sorry, I was very vague here, I really meant the 'Pay per View' to reflect the willingness to pay more for the events individually, 100% commercial free. $30 for one week with commercials is absolutley insane. _
> ...


I would be willing to pay up to $20 for an event with this package and would purchase between 6 and 10 races. 
One more thing that may make the package a litte more attractive would be to offer a 'Weekend Pass' type of feature that would include the Busch race and happy hour / qualifying stuff as well.

Thanks for listening!


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## HoodDEIfan (Mar 6, 2007)

edmartin said:


> By the way, you do realize that David Hill from Fox is the man behind HP. Do you really think the guy in charge of Fox Sports isn't going to make sure the advertisers are happy? That's a bit of an aside but probably a relevant point.


Ah, so FOX is behind HotPass. Makes sense why it's so horrible.

Discovered another lie from the HotPass advertising...... "HotPass also includes network coverage of the race in a smaller window on your screen so you will not miss out on their great coverage of the bigger race developments of that race."

It's on their website. I think I may take a few hours and find all of the lies on there. Would be interesting to see their "marketing" scheme laid bare.


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## AdamL2388 (Feb 19, 2007)

saleen351 said:


> _ 1 of two things will happen:
> 1. They ditch the commercials to try and save HP
> 2. HP is gone next year..
> 
> Nascar has to do what is right for the sport and end the freaking season on Labor Day Weekend! Sure track owners will be pissed but it was the risk they took to build the track._


_

They have already announced that HotPass will probably be going HD next year, so for Direc TV people, I 'd would just focus on getting HotPass Commercial - Free, because HotPass will be around for the future, it isn't going anywhere._


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't care if they have 3 million subscribers now, it doesn't mean a dang thing if 90 percent of them are not happy. Right now we are trapped, but believe me, that's not going to happen twice.



AdamL2388 said:


> because HotPass will be around for the future, it isn't going anywhere.


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## HoodDEIfan (Mar 6, 2007)

Tom_Oliver said:


> Right now we are trapped, but believe me, that's not going to happen twice.


Amen Tom


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## Dorsey (Mar 6, 2007)

Tom_Oliver said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't care if they have 3 million subscribers now, it doesn't mean a dang thing if 90 percent of them are not happy. Right now we are trapped, but believe me, that's not going to happen twice.


Ya I got fooled twice with a similiar company Ahhhhhhhmmmmm, wont happen again 

Im just glad we dont have to adhere to our contracts for HP... I mean I was MORE then happy with InDemand ... I could put the race in picture in picture and put my InDemand on a favorites list and I could rotate through them and switch from the InCars to the normal feed...

is it outta the question to create a channel, charge 5$ a race and have no commercials?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

IMHO I don't think D* is ready to play in the world of NASCAR. Whoever is in charge just does not seem to be NASCAR fan friendly. Case in point:

D* makes its sponsor debut on the 07 on a non-HD race. Not a huge deal in itself, but if D* can use channel 95 for other sporting events, it sure should be able to use it for a race shown on a sister station (FX). Our friends to the north saw the race in HD on TSN.

D* had plans to drop HD coverage on TNT for the first two races of the chase. IT was only after holy #@!! was raised that they backed off and pulled UHD for 2 weeks.

D* touts HP as the coolest thing for real fans, yet doesn't allow us to hear the most important part of the conversation.

I'm just not sure they know the repercussions of pi**ing off NASCAR fans.


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

AdamL2388 said:


> They have already announced that HotPass will probably be going HD next year, so for Direc TV people, I 'd would just focus on getting HotPass Commercial - Free, because HotPass will be around for the future, it isn't going anywhere.


Nascar was down about 10% last year, and they are down another 7% or so this year. Add the two numbers together (which is not 17%) and it shows you Nascar is in huge huge huge trouble. D can't afford Nascar's numbers to slide any further. Don't be so sure D won't yank the plug on this thing, they have to report to the street and shareholders after all and if it doesn't make sense, it's gotta go.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

Satelliteracer said:


> The abyss is being considered I can assure you....don't know if there is a viable solution, but there are many ideas on the table....stay tuned.


Is super-premium content on the table?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

saleen351 said:


> Don't be so sure D won't yank the plug on this thing, they have to report to the street and shareholders after all and if it doesn't make sense, it's gotta go.


Oh, I think it last this year and next. Where the oh [email protected]#$ is going to come is when they see the renewal numbers in the toilet compared to other sports subscriptions. But by then it will be too late to pull the plug. But come 2009, its probably gone in it's current form.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

saleen351 said:


> Nascar was down about 10% last year, and they are down another 7% or so this year. Add the two numbers together (which is not 17%) and it shows you Nascar is in huge huge huge trouble. D can't afford Nascar's numbers to slide any further. Don't be so sure D won't yank the plug on this thing, they have to report to the street and shareholders after all and if it doesn't make sense, it's gotta go.


I believe these numbers don't represent the actual number of viewers.

There are no neilsen ratings for HD viewers, only SD viewers.

With the transition of high profile sports going to HD, they need to find a way to 
count these viewers.

Everyone in my family has an HDTV and none of us are being counted.


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## B.A.T.S (Oct 25, 2006)

Herdfan said:


> Oh, I think it last this year and next. Where the oh [email protected]#$ is going to come is when they see the renewal numbers in the toilet compared to other sports subscriptions. But by then it will be too late to pull the plug. But come 2009, its probably gone in it's current form.


Directv & Nascar agreed on a 3yr. contract for Hotpass but I'm sure there is a loop hole somewhere to trash Hotpass if there is not enough subscribers.


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## saleen351 (Mar 28, 2006)

wmschultz said:


> I believe these numbers don't represent the actual number of viewers.
> 
> There are no neilsen ratings for HD viewers, only SD viewers.
> 
> ...


You are incorrect. It takes into account ALL viewers...


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

Okay, show me because everything I have read & heard says there is no way to determine HD Viewers.


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## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

saleen351 said:


> You are incorrect. It takes into account ALL viewers...


on a side note....how reliable are the Neilson ratings? I find it hard to believe, with the explosion of so many more channels, that their model is as accurate as they say it is.

I believe D* keeps track of what everyone is watching. Do you know if D*'s numbers coincide with the Neilson ratings?


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

wmschultz said:


> Okay, show me because everything I have read & heard says there is no way to determine HD Viewers.


There is no way to determine the actual number of HD viewers. However, any statistical sample, even if it only included on SD viewers, would be extrapolated to provide a measurment of all viewers.

What they can't do is tell how many people watched LOST in SD vs. how many watched in HD. They can estimate the total number that watched it.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

I agree. I think the current ratings have been BS for a while, but there is no question NASCAR ratings are lower. You can just look at all the empty seats and see that.

In the late 90s when I started following NASCAR, you couldn't buy a ticket from the track for any race. All tickets were already gone to season ticket holders. Now it's rare when you can't get a ticket from the track, even on the day of the race.



bonkthat said:


> on a side note....how reliable are the Neilson ratings? I find it hard to believe, with the explosion of so many more channels, that their model is as accurate as they say it is.


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## racemanva (Nov 3, 2006)

TV Ratings for Mexico race down from last year: ESPN2's broadcast of the Telcel-Motorola Mexico 200 Busch Series race garnered a Nielsen Media Research rating of 2.3 with 2,142,000 households watching, according to the network. ESPN's Spanish-language telecast showed a 0.2 rating with 196,000, boosting the total households watching to 2,337,000. But those numbers were down 34.3% over 2006's race, which was shown on the Fox network. Last year, the Fox broadcast had a 3.5 rating with 3,821,000 households. :nono2:


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

Is hotpass going to do anythingwith the size of the commerical screen?? Also anything about the team audio during the commericals??? Doing one or the other soon would be start but both would be awesome.


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

Maybe I'm alone here, but why exactly do we even need the network feed on HP? Is it that tough to press the PREV button on the remote?

The HP commercials (and the agent I talked to) made it appear that we'd get 3 views of the driver/crew. I'd pay $200/year for one follow, one incar and one crew with team audio, but as is I'm forced to use TrackPass instead. And just because inDemand didn't have it's contract renewed didn't mean that it didn't provide a good service. They should be building on what that service provided, not trashing it and using early subscribers as guinea pigs for all their bad ideas.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Not alone.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

racemanva said:


> TV Ratings for Mexico race down from last year: ESPN2's broadcast of the Telcel-Motorola Mexico 200 Busch Series race garnered a Nielsen Media Research rating of 2.3 with 2,142,000 households watching, according to the network. ESPN's Spanish-language telecast showed a 0.2 rating with 196,000, boosting the total households watching to 2,337,000. But those numbers were down 34.3% over 2006's race, which was shown on the Fox network. Last year, the Fox broadcast had a 3.5 rating with 3,821,000 households. :nono2:


What was really frustrating was that I was at my Mom's house that Sunday and thought I'd check out the race. She doesn't get ESPN2 on her cable system, and she only has SD. ESPN -- the MAIN channel -- was all in Spaniard! So they made the Hispanic channel the flagship channel. UN-believable!

So .. if I'm an English speaking NASCAR fan, I am NOT welcome to watch it on ESPN!Perhaps THAT is why ratings were down!


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## bdowell (Mar 4, 2003)

NFLnut said:


> What was really frustrating was that I was at my Mom's house that Sunday and thought I'd check out the race. She doesn't get ESPN2 on her cable system, and she only has SD. ESPN -- the MAIN channel -- was all in Spaniard! So they made the Hispanic channel the flagship channel. UN-believable!
> 
> So .. if I'm an English speaking NASCAR fan, I am NOT welcome to watch it on ESPN!Perhaps THAT is why ratings were down!


You sure that someone in your mom's house didn't hit the SAP button on their TV or on their cable/sat receiver?

My father-in-law was infamous for that trick. He'd hit the button by accident and put his TV into Secondary Audio and then couldn't figure out why he wasn't getting any audio on some of his stations. He actually called the cable techs out at least twice (surprisingly Comcast didn't make him pay a service charge for those calls), and had me come fix it for him multiple times.

I was really relieved when we switched him to DirecTV. At least with that there was less chance of him hitting the wrong button on the remote control as he only uses his TV remote control to power on/off the TV. All the rest of the controls are on the DirecTV remote (the DirecTV remote would do power also, but doesn't automatically do it unless you move the slider over to TV).


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

ESPN used that race as some ridiculous experiment in which the English version was carried on ESPN2 and the ESPN Deportes broadcast was simulcast on ESPN.

BTW, has anyone heard a decent explanation as to why they start the HP content so close to the race? You miss a ton of stuff between the command to start and the end of the pace laps.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Yeah, I agree.



jp23mc said:


> BTW, has anyone heard a decent explanation as to why they start the HP content so close to the race? You miss a ton of stuff between the command to start and the end of the pace laps.


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## AdamL2388 (Feb 19, 2007)

jp23mc said:


> BTW, has anyone heard a decent explanation as to why they start the HP content so close to the race? You miss a ton of stuff between the command to start and the end of the pace laps.


You could always watch the pre-show on FOX before switching over to HotPass at racetime. Yeah my IPG guide shows HotPass coming on at 4pm but really it doesn't come on until 10 minutes til race.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

But you miss stuff. You miss them getting ready for the race and discussing strategy.



AdamL2388 said:


> You could always watch the pre-show on FOX before switching over to HotPass at racetime. Yeah my IPG guide shows HotPass coming on at 4pm but really it doesn't come on until 10 minutes til race.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

I'm not real sure they yellow button is working at all, but we need the in-car audio along with the communication. Not just the communication. We want to hear the roar of the cars.



Satelliteracer said:


> Actually 3 new features, but two are coming for the next race and beyond.
> 
> The third feature is for next year....looks like HD is a go for HotPass assuming the next bird goes up without a hitch later this year. Obviously things can happen, but the plan is to bring HotPass in HD next year.
> 
> ...


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## tjboyd (Oct 5, 2006)

Can't tell if "Team" audio is working...


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Yeah, not working for me I think. I haven't heard a thing yet. I'm on Hamlin.



tjboyd said:


> Can't tell if "Team" audio is working...


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## tjboyd (Oct 5, 2006)

I guess they forgot to throw the switch!!  All the radio traffic is on the Hotpass channel...


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

No audio other than the channel announcers is working for me.

If I press the yellow button, it mutes everything. Boy, I'm glad they get this POS
working properly. What are they using to drive this thing, a FORD?


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

They are at least being a little better on the yapping on Hamlin's channel, especially on the restarts.


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## Jimv03 (Mar 11, 2007)

Well Hotpass still sucks!! No team audio with the yellow button here either??


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

send an email to [email protected].


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## Jimv03 (Mar 11, 2007)

I did. what a bunch of morons.


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## bdowell (Mar 4, 2003)

Yet another customer here with the audio problem. I swear DirecTV really is trying to get a nice class action su... oh, screw it. Eventually I guess I'll get a coupon for a worthless NAPA hat or something similar for being a customer for this package. That and a discount on future years that I'll likely never buy 

I was soooo looking forward to this package on DirecTV. To the point of making sure to get the HR20 to replace the HR10 that had worked very well up to that point. Knock on wood, the HR20 has worked ok for me so far, but learning the new interface was something I'd have delayed if not for the idea of getting the active content channels -- including the ones for Hotpass.

Between the stupid commercials (which are muted currently, heheheh, thanks to that yellow button), the lack of HD, and now the promised but missing team audio on separate channel, I'm thinking almost 10% of the season is done with the package still not coming close to what was promised and/or expected.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Yeah, works good for that. 



bdowell said:


> Between the stupid commercials (which are muted currently, heheheh, thanks to that yellow button),


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

You know, if the announcers would quit telling us how they were going to let us hear all of the team communications we might not miss so much of it. 

Also, the Kahne channel was full screen with no commercials for a little bit at the beginning. I'd much rather have that than the split screen -- at least until it's HD and the resolution is high enough to allow for the smaller views. I honestly stopped watching it after they went back to the split screens.


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

Tom_Oliver said:


> Yeah, not working for me I think. I haven't heard a thing yet. I'm on Hamlin.


 This was really great for hotpass, having a team audio only but all the yellow button does is mutes it.The running order blue bu tton didnt work for part of the race. If hotpass doesnt improve somehow it is really going to fail and thats too bad.


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## sgt1205 (Jan 17, 2006)

What's up with Hotpass using Dale Jr. 3 times in 4 weeks when some other great drivers have not had a shot at all? I know people like Jr. but there are 43 drivers a race and there needs to be equality. I did not spend $100 for the Dale Jr. Channel!


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## bdowell (Mar 4, 2003)

sgt1205 said:


> What's up with Hotpass using Dale Jr. 3 times in 4 weeks when some other great drivers have not had a shot at all? I know people like Jr. but there are 43 drivers a race and there needs to be equality. I did not spend $100 for the Dale Jr. Channel!


Uh, perhaps some drivers (looks at the Gordon types) don't want to have the cameras and such in their cars.

It could be they are superstitious, or it could be that they are just being jerks, but Hotpass can only give us drivers that want to cooperate (as well as drivers that are somewhat popular since the popularity of some of the drivers has helped sell the package).


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

I did. Sucked today without him.



sgt1205 said:


> What's up with Hotpass using Dale Jr. 3 times in 4 weeks when some other great drivers have not had a shot at all? I know people like Jr. but there are 43 drivers a race and there needs to be equality. I did not spend $100 for the Dale Jr. Channel!


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

Tom_Oliver said:


> I did. Sucked today without him.


Jr. fan or not, nobody's as entertaining on the radio as he and his team are. And since the majority of NASCAR fans are also Jr. fans it makes sense to have him as a permanent channel. Anyone who thinks there'd be a contest if Jr. was in the voting for that 5th channel needs his head examined.

I'd be interested to see the stats on how many watched the Jarrett channel. I like Dale, but watching him pick up 10 spots in 4 hours is not worth a dedicated channel.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Amen to that.



jp23mc said:


> I'd be interested to see the stats on how many watched the Jarrett channel. I like Dale, but watching him pick up 10 spots in 4 hours is not worth a dedicated channel.


----------



## sgt1205 (Jan 17, 2006)

jp23mc said:


> Jr. fan or not, nobody's as entertaining on the radio as he and his team are. And since the majority of NASCAR fans are also Jr. fans it makes sense to have him as a permanent channel. Anyone who thinks there'd be a contest if Jr. was in the voting for that 5th channel needs his head examined.
> 
> I'd be interested to see the stats on how many watched the Jarrett channel. I like Dale, but watching him pick up 10 spots in 4 hours is not worth a dedicated channel.


 It would have been good if I could have heard any of the team audio! With the much ballyhooed "yellow button" feature basically just a second mute button, what good is it?:nono2:


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

Comeon, you missed out on listening to Mikey!

I vote for NO MORE Drivers who missed the race being commentators.

Also, stop DUMBING down the sport. I know what change 2 right sides means.


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## jkimrey (Nov 24, 2005)

Gordon fans need to vote for him for the March 25th race:

http://www7.justmarketing.com/DIRECTTV/survey.aspx

Guess it's too late for the 18th voting?



bdowell said:


> Uh, perhaps some drivers (looks at the Gordon types) don't want to have the cameras and such in their cars.
> 
> It could be they are superstitious, or it could be that they are just being jerks, but Hotpass can only give us drivers that want to cooperate (as well as drivers that are somewhat popular since the popularity of some of the drivers has helped sell the package).


----------



## bonkthat (Feb 25, 2007)

wmschultz said:


> Comeon, you missed out on listening to Mikey!
> 
> I vote for NO MORE Drivers who missed the race being commentators.
> 
> Also, stop DUMBING down the sport. I know what change 2 right sides means.


We should have a drinking game every time they show and explain how they check the tires after a pit stop.


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## KitchMD (Aug 27, 2006)

Yeah, I'm getting sick of showing the same drivers every week. I paid $70 for this crap. Unless Jeff Gordon makes the 5th driver vote, it will be 5 weeks without him. All the Jr. fans can shut their mouths b/c Jeff is probably the 2nd most popular driver in NASCAR.

Don't give me this crap about Jeff not wanting it in his car. He has allowed in-car audio through Trackpass since the beginning so I cannot image he would care if Hotpass was in his pit. This is unlike Mr. Stewart, who basically had to be forced to allow his in-car audio, even on Trackpass.


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

Somone needs to change the title of this thread to:

*Two new features we HOPE to bring to HotPass but even if we do you might not be able to use them*


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## bdowell (Mar 4, 2003)

KitchMD said:


> Yeah, I'm getting sick of showing the same drivers every week. I paid $70 for this crap. Unless Jeff Gordon makes the 5th driver vote, it will be 5 weeks without him. All the Jr. fans can shut their mouths b/c Jeff is probably the 2nd most popular driver in NASCAR.
> 
> Don't give me this crap about Jeff not wanting it in his car. He has allowed in-car audio through Trackpass since the beginning so I cannot image he would care if Hotpass was in his pit. This is unlike Mr. Stewart, who basically had to be forced to allow his in-car audio, even on Trackpass.


Cry me a river. :nono2:

Seriously, Gordon was supposed to have been a selection for (if memory serves) race #2 and apparently from his own doing was bumped at the last minute and someone else was subbed in.

I really doubt that -- at least in this area -- DirecTV is trying to screw over Jeff Gordon fans by not trying to get him in the package.

If given their choice, I suspect they'd gladly put Gordon, Jr., and Tony Stewart in just about every week and just rotate the other two spots. That would give them about 90% of the fan favorites right there. It would end the crying among the various fans about why their favorite driver wasn't in the package, etc.

But they can only go with teams/drivers that cooperate and allow the cameras, mics, etc., to intrude on their team.

As someone that isn't a fan of Gordon, I could perhaps conspiracy theorize that the reason that Gordon doesn't want the camera and mic is because his team might more easily be caught cheating   Either way, I hope to god they do get him in the package soon just so the 24 fans can shut the ... up about him not being in the package yet. Of course no sooner will he be there then they'll start crying that someone else was already in the package twice, etc.


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## tjboyd (Oct 5, 2006)

The tensions begining to build in here :lol: :lol: 

Satelliteracer wwwhhere aaare yyyou


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## KitchMD (Aug 27, 2006)

Well, if memory serves me right, he had an in-car camera at Las Vegas...so explain that one?

I sure don't expect him on every week and if he is not going to be one of the drivers, it would sure be nice to have a variety of different drivers. After the Bristol race, Jr. will have been on 4 of 5 weeks. That's a bit ridiculous...they might as well call it the Jr. Hotpass. Nothing against Jr...I think he is a good driver and a good guy, but there are 50 other drivers in NASCAR!

Who's crying? I'm just sick of people ripping on Jeff. Everyone is just jealous that he has almost 40% of the total championships by active drivers. So when your guy, whoever that may be, wins as many as he has, come talk to me. Until then, kiss my ***!!!


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

KitchMD said:


> Yeah, I'm getting sick of showing the same drivers every week. I paid $70 for this crap. Unless Jeff Gordon makes the 5th driver vote, it will be 5 weeks without him. All the Jr. fans can shut their mouths b/c Jeff is probably the 2nd most popular driver in NASCAR.
> 
> Don't give me this crap about Jeff not wanting it in his car. He has allowed in-car audio through Trackpass since the beginning so I cannot image he would care if Hotpass was in his pit. This is unlike Mr. Stewart, who basically had to be forced to allow his in-car audio, even on Trackpass.


If I remember correctly the teams don't have a choice on the TrackPass audio. You make the race and you're on the scanner. And Tony having to be forced to do something is not exactly news. Also, not all cars are going to have in-car cameras every race. Most depends on whether their sponsor wants to put one in there.

Face it, Jr. is more entertaining and is the defacto driver representative for HP. If you're really wanting choice then they should do like inDemand did and have all 5 spots up for a vote every week. That way you guys get little Jeffy (if he lets you), the girls get Kasey and everybody else gets Jr.

I say we vote for 4 each week and HP picks a wildcard -- say Boris for Road races or somesuch -- rather than voiting for one and having the other 4 forced upon us by sponsors or whoever it is that decides such things..


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## wmschultz (Jul 18, 2006)

I don't think it was that Tony or whomever didn't want to be on Trackpass it was
that at tonysterwart.com there was his own audio feed that he was charging for, 
now they all get paid by NASCAR.com to be on it.


----------



## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

Just a couple of questions for Satelliteracer:

1. Has there been any thought to presenting the HP channels as simple full screen broadcasts? Sort of like the national broadcast only focusing on one driver. I noticed that a couple of channels have done that for bits and I honestly enjoyed it more than squinting at the little boxes. Having mostly in-car interspersed with the occasional outside shot or pit crew cam would be much easier on the eyes for those of us without 50" plasmas.

2. Is it really necessary to have the Fox broadcast included in the HP feed? It seems superfluous and obviously has caused you guys more headaches than you expected it would. I've talked to more than one person who feels it's more of an annoyance than a feature.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but don't take the criticism personally. I just want this service to be of acceptable quality and complaining seems to get the most results quickly.


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## sgt1205 (Jan 17, 2006)

bdowell said:


> Uh, perhaps some drivers (looks at the Gordon types) don't want to have the cameras and such in their cars.
> 
> It could be they are superstitious, or it could be that they are just being jerks, but Hotpass can only give us drivers that want to cooperate (as well as drivers that are somewhat popular since the popularity of some of the drivers has helped sell the package).


Uh, Did I mention Gordon? Despite his 75 wins (most of any active driver) to Jr's. Uh, what 17?

GO LaBonte!


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

Why bash Jr? No one is trashing Gordon. If you want to cry, cry to him, he's the one not letting them put the cameras in the car. Besides, Gordon has seven more years in Cup driving for the probably the best team out there. DEI is mediocre at best. It's apples and oranges.



sgt1205 said:


> Uh, Did I mention Gordon? Despite his 75 wins (most of any active driver) to Jr's. Uh, what 17?
> 
> GO LaBonte!


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## JPrather (Mar 17, 2007)

Absolutely spot on Tom. I applaud Satelliteracer for these threads, and I sincerely hope they *are* listening. I, like it seems alot of people in these threads, want to watch pure onboard footage. Unlike alot of these people, though, I don't really care about the commercials so much, for the price I paid I expected it. I would pay more for no commercials, I would pay more if it was needed to make onboard-only footage available. Without that I have very little use for the current HotPass coverage.

P.S. I got a kick out of the Papy vs EA debate popping up in a non-sim racing forum 



Tom_Oliver said:


> It's the same thing with Hot Pass. They want to sell it to the casual fan, but that fan will never care. Meanwhile the hard core fans are getting an over-produced version of the raw in-car footage and communication that we want.
> 
> In short, no one is happy.


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

I just would like to know if directv is planning to do something about the commerical screen size? I cant speak for everyone but for me, I would like to see more in-car shots than anything else. The commericals do not bother me, however, I feel like the paying customer should be able to choose from the team audio or the commerical sound. And please make the COMMERICAL SCREEN SM ALLER. This would be a great improvement


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

Driver audio feature works this week.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

OMG Sooo much beter. Thank you!


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## Jazzy Jeff (Mar 11, 2007)

So much better this week, almost exactly what I want  Is it just me or does the PQ seem a little better this week?

Now if we could just kick the interviewers off Mark Martins screen and leave them audio only that would be nice  Only in car view, chase/pit view, and fox would be perfect.

Go Mark  almost brings a tear to my eye watching him race this weekend. Thank you DirecTV


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## toph (Dec 19, 2006)

Great Job D* - This is more like the product I signed up for :grin:


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

I mailed this in:

Much, much, much better with that today. Thank you!

If we could switch the windows sizes to put the race feed in the large window during the breaks, and keep the audio going I'd be happy with the package.


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## Jazzy Jeff (Mar 11, 2007)

Tom_Oliver said:


> I mailed this in:
> 
> Much, much, much better with that today. Thank you!
> 
> If we could switch the windows sizes to put the race feed in the large window during the breaks, and keep the audio going I'd be happy with the package.


I have to agree with this completely, and to think it can only get better. Almost perfect now, always room for improvement though.

In fact I could live with the commercial audio if the commercial window and racing window were switched, at least you could tell what was going on even if you can't hear.


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Now if they would leave the bottom screen as a roof cam or in car cam full time and use the top left for the other various shots it will be perfect.

Also sent in a email about MIX.

Its not really a mix channel now, I suggested they do the following.

have 6 screens similar to the current directv mix channels.

screen 1 CAR1
screen 2 CAR2
screen 3 CAR3
screen 4 CAR4
screen 5 CAR5
screen 6 BROADCAST

have the picture showing a incar shot/roofcam with audio, so we can toggle and then just select the channel we want to go to.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

I have to say today is the first time I feel like I'm getting what I paid for. I still have to mute during the breaks and hear communication from trackpass however.

I also sent these in:

We need to see who the driver is racing while we are following the car around the track. Zooming in just on the car doesn't show us what we need to see. They should zoom out so we can see all the cars around the driver, like we can see when we are at the track.

----- Original Message ----- 
To: Hotpass 
Subject: Where are we compared to the leader?


One thing In-Demand had was a track graphic that showed where the leader was running and where our car was running. I kind of miss that. Maybe you could use the space where you currently have the HotPass logo for that, or put in the top left hand corner.


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## Keeska (Feb 10, 2007)

I am very disappointed in HotPass. It has gotten to the point that we can't watch the FOX feed due to the massive amount of time spent in commercials. Not only that but FOX usually ignores anything which happened during the commercials so without an alternative like NASCAR's TrackPass it is impossible to keep up with the race.

Now DirecTV has the audacity to charge me $79.99 and then force feed the same FOX commercials. This is the first time I have been disappointed like this with DirecTV. Since they appear to not care about us viewers I am wondering whether DirecTV is just out for the profit like the local cable company. (And I read the earlier message about the contract requiring it. What a bunch of BS - if DirecTV cared about the viewer there would not have negotiated that into the contract.)

I hope DirecTV is ashamed of themselves for charging $79.9 for this and then filing the time with commercials. But I doubt it.


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

Dump the network broadcast and it'd be perfect. I certainly appreciate having the in-car in the bottom screen for the majority of the race. 

Is there some rule where they have to keep the hood in the roofcam shots? I noticed on the Dale Jr channel that when using the roof cam they'd move the picture so you could see the cars ahead but then would center it where the hood was in picture but clipping off the track ahead. I figured they might have a deal where the sponsor logo had to be in frame.


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## Tom_Oliver (Jan 4, 2007)

No, I don't think so. It's just off cause we don't get the top half of the screen. Kind of why I don't really like that shot in the bottom window.



jp23mc said:


> Dump the network broadcast and it'd be perfect. I certainly appreciate having the in-car in the bottom screen for the majority of the race.
> 
> Is there some rule where they have to keep the hood in the roofcam shots? I noticed on the Dale Jr channel that when using the roof cam they'd move the picture so you could see the cars ahead but then would center it where the hood was in picture but clipping off the track ahead. I figured they might have a deal where the sponsor logo had to be in frame.


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

Tom_Oliver said:


> No, I don't think so. It's just off cause we don't get the top half of the screen. Kind of why I don't really like that shot in the bottom window.


Yeah, it was just a little confusing since they have the ability to digitally frame that shot however they want. Every now and then it was nice, but then they'd frame it too low.

Still can't see myself paying another $100 for this. I've gotten to where I just hardly even watch it anymore. If I could cancel I would.


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## Jazzy Jeff (Mar 11, 2007)

Tom_Oliver said:


> No, I don't think so. It's just off cause we don't get the top half of the screen. Kind of why I don't really like that shot in the bottom window.


I tend to agree with you on this, my favorite window for the roof cam is the upper right hand corner, might not be as wide but you can definitely see the track ahead.


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## jkimrey (Nov 24, 2005)

So did they announce the drivers/channels for next week?


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## Jazzy Jeff (Mar 11, 2007)

jkimrey said:


> So did they announce the drivers/channels for next week?


Don't worry Jr is on again :nono2:


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## kittief7 (Mar 3, 2007)

Great job directv! It was so much more enjoyable with the team audio only. You guys are on the right track. Now only if the commerical and the race screen could be switched than it would be great!!!! Another great addition would be to hear the team audio throughout the commerical and feature the in-car camera view through the whole race. VERY GOOD for week 4 and hopefully the commerical stuff will be taken into consideration for the future. Thank you DIRECTV for a more ENJOYABLE race this weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## michael-reilly (Mar 18, 2007)

> Another great addition would be to hear the team audio throughout the commerical.


NASCAR.com has this if you are interested.


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## jp23mc (Mar 10, 2007)

Did anyone catch the ESPN2 broadcast of the women's NCAA championship game? They basically did what HP has been promising us only better. They had twice the information that HP gives us and even more on the HD version.

It should be required classroom material for the HP producers.


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