# Just saw a 4K



## satcrazy

It was a samsung at best buy.

listed as "ultra HD 4K"

Well, anyone?

I thought it looked almost odd. The detailing was there, but it seemed almost unrealistic [ I know I'm going to get hammered for this].

It was on sale for 3600. [ 400. 0ff] 55 inch I think.

Rich,
If you're reading this, what model is your newest Panasonic?


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## yosoyellobo

Should be great for Major League instant replay.


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## GregLee

That's interesting, and I'm looking forward to seeing UHD. An excuse for unnatural looking pictures on the first sets might be that upscaling and different color processing has to be done by the TV's software, and it may take a while for the engineers to get that working right.


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> It was a samsung at best buy.
> 
> listed as "ultra HD 4K"
> 
> Well, anyone?
> 
> I thought it looked almost odd. The detailing was there, but it seemed almost unrealistic [ I know I'm going to get hammered for this].
> 
> It was on sale for 3600. [ 400. 0ff] 55 inch I think.
> 
> Rich,
> If you're reading this, what model is your newest Panasonic?


Sorry, I just noticed this thread. The newest is a TC-P60ST30. I got it two years ago. I've been comparing my 42" Panny 1080p to it and I think _*CCarncross*_ is onto something. He thinks 60" is the highest you should go on a plasma and after many hours of comparison between the 60" and the 42" sets, I gotta agree with him.

Rich


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## Steve

I'm giving my 65S1 to my daughter and debating now whether to replace it with the 65VT series or the 65ZT series plasma. I'll likely go with the VT and save about $800 bucks, but some reviewers are calling the ZT the best display on the market. As far as size goes, at my 10'-12' viewing distances, even the 65" appears small at times. I don't think I could go back to a 60".


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## sigma1914

Are there 4k plasmas? I haven't started looking... yet.


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## CCarncross

Rich said:


> Sorry, I just noticed this thread. The newest is a TC-P60ST30. I got it two years ago. I've been comparing my 42" Panny 1080p to it and I think _*CCarncross*_ is onto something. He thinks 60" is the highest you should go on a plasma and after many hours of comparison between the 60" and the 42" sets, I gotta agree with him.
> 
> Rich


Rich, my actual sentiment is you shouldnt go beyond 60" for 1920x1080 resolution, regardless of the screen technology. 1080 blown up to larger than 60" just looks too grainy to me at many avg. living room viewing distances. 10-15 feet. When 4k hits my price point in the 80" size screen, I'm in.


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## gov

IIRC, the optimum viewing distance for a 55" 4K TV in 4K mode is 4 feet and and a couple inches.

Maybe a wall mount for the TV with a long arm would allow for the recliner foot rest to go under the TV so the viewer can get his eyeballs in the right spot ? However, only the central portion of the screen would be at the right distance, the left and right edges would be too far away, unless the screen was very sharply curved.


(yeah, I am really getting to be a curmudgeon about 4K :eek2: )


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## Steve

CCarncross said:


> Rich, my actually sentiment is you shouldnt go beyond 60" for 1920x1080 resolution, regardless of the screen technology. 1080 blown up to larger than 60" just looks too grainy to me at many avg. living room viewing distances. 10-15 feet. When 4k hits my price point in the 80" size screen, I'm in.


I'll respectfully disagree with you on that point, at least in regard to plasma. I've got 20/20 vision, and I have to stand closer than 8' to my 65" plasma before I start to discern any 1080p grid pattern.

Also, "graininess" may have to do with LED vs. plasma and personal taste for PQ. E.g., many LED displays still look "digital" to me, compared to plasma. That said, the PQ gap between the two technologies has significantly narrowed the past year or two, at least to my eyes.


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## Gloria_Chavez

Have any networks announced plans for OTA 4K transmissions? Have Dish/DTV done so?

Blue-Ray movie is about 25 GB, and the technology never took off as many expected.

A 4K movie would be about 100 GB. No 4K players, so you'd have to download the content, at 25 GB per half hour.

At this point, 4K is a novelty.


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## The Merg

Steve said:


> I'll respectfully disagree with you on that point, at least in regard to plasma. I've got 20/20 vision, and I have to stand closer than 8' to my 65" plasma before I start to discern any 1080p grid pattern.
> 
> Also, "graininess" may have to do with LED vs. plasma and personal taste for PQ. E.g., many LED displays still look "digital" to me, compared to plasma. That said, the PQ gap between the two technologies has significantly narrowed the past year or two, at least to my eyes.


Well, I don't think it will get much better as Panasonic has now said it will stop producing plasmas after this year...

- Merg


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## sigma1914

Gloria_Chavez said:


> ...
> 
> Blue-Ray movie is about 25 GB, and the technology never took off as many expected.
> 
> A 4K movie would be about 100 GB. No 4K players, so you'd have to download the content, at 25 GB per half hour.
> 
> At this point, 4K is a novelty.


Ummmm what? BluRay is doing very well. And 4k players do exist.


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## Rich

Rich said:


> Sorry, I just noticed this thread. The newest is a TC-P60ST30. I got it two years ago. I've been comparing my 42" Panny 1080p to it and I think _*CCarncross*_ is onto something. He thinks 60" is the highest you should go on a plasma and after many hours of comparison between the 60" and the 42" sets, I gotta agree with him.
> 
> Rich


I have to amend this. I went from the 42" to the 60" yesterday while watching an NF streaming flick and I could not see any difference. I dunno. I'm confused.

Rich


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## Rich

Steve said:


> I'm giving my 65S1 to my daughter and debating now whether to replace it with the 65VT series or the 65ZT series plasma. I'll likely go with the VT and save about $800 bucks, but some reviewers are calling the ZT the best display on the market. As far as size goes, at my 10'-12' viewing distances, even the 65" appears small at times. I don't think I could go back to a 60".


I watch my 60" plasma from about that distance and I watch the 42" plasma from exactly 5' away (I measured it yesterday). I can't find the ZTs on Amazon, but it looks like they'd cost between three and four grand. Too much for me.

Rich


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## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Rich, my actual sentiment is you shouldnt go beyond 60" for 1920x1080 resolution, regardless of the screen technology. 1080 blown up to larger than 60" just looks too grainy to me at many avg. living room viewing distances. 10-15 feet. When 4k hits my price point in the 80" size screen, I'm in.


Yup, I remember. I'm still trying to figure out if I agree. You gave me a reason to explore and that's always a good thing. For that, I thank you.

Rich


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## CCarncross

Rich said:


> I have to amend this. I went from the 42" to the 60" yesterday while watching an NF streaming flick and I could not see any difference. I dunno. I'm confused.
> 
> Rich


Do the same with a BD Rich. I think you'll see much more difference. As good as I find the PQ with NF, it doesnt even come close to a good BD disk.


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## Rich

Steve said:


> I'll respectfully disagree with you on that point, at least in regard to plasma. I've got 20/20 vision, and I have to stand closer than 8' to my 65" plasma before I start to discern any 1080p grid pattern.
> 
> Also, "graininess" may have to do with LED vs. plasma and personal taste for PQ. E.g., many LED displays still look "digital" to me, compared to plasma. That said, the PQ gap between the two technologies has significantly narrowed the past year or two, at least to my eyes.


I haven't even considered LCDs in my opinions. After yesterday, I'm really wondering about a 65" set. I gotta get something for Xmas and that's always a challenge. I probably should have nixed off the 60" set and bought the 65" model and we wouldn't be talking about this. I gotta say that NF's super HD streams have been a revelation to me.

One of the great problems I've always had is thinking I'm wrong when someone disagrees with me. Now I've got two members that I respect with two different opinions and I know one of them is right. Guess I'd have to get a bigger set to satisfy my curiosity. But I'm not gonna spend over $2,000 for another TV. Everytime I look at my 58" 720p plasma that set me back over $2,400 I get a bit upset.

Rich


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## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> Ummmm what? BluRay is doing very well. And 4k players do exist.


I just bought a Sammy BD player that upscales to 4K. Sony seems to going all out to get some content out there.

Rich


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## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Do the same with a BD Rich. I think you'll see much more difference. As good as I find the PQ with NF, it doesnt even come close to a good BD disk.


I don't buy BDs, I get them from NF and sometimes I wonder about the PQ on them. The PQ on NF streaming super HD content seems to be pretty consistent. I'm using that for comparisons.

Rich


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## Steve

The Merg said:


> Well, I don't think it will get much better as Panasonic has now said it will stop producing plasmas after this year...


Holy crap, Batman! Hadn't heard that. I just pulled the trigger on a 65ZT, before they're no longer available.


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## The Merg

Holy crap, Batman! Hadn't heard that. I just pulled the trigger on a 65ZT, before they're no longer available.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/8/4818468/panasonic-to-exit-plasma-business-this-financial-year-report

- Merg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Steve

Thanks for the link, Merg!

I was able to snag a 65ZT for under 3K (I have a friend in the business), but for those willing to order online, it's available here for $2845 with free shipping!

A couple of different reviewers really like the ZT series, though they did question the value over the VT series (at list price):



> Right now, even with Ultra HD arriving on the market, the Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 is the best HDTV that money can buy. [more]





> Let me get this out of the way first: Panasonic's TC-PZT60 is now the best-performing TV we've ever tested. Perhaps a few of the old, supertweaked Pioneer Kuros out there might deliver slightly superior black levels, but I've never had any of those in the lab. This one beats my in-house Kuro, and every other TV in my lab. [more]


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## Rich

Steve said:


> Thanks for the link, Merg!
> 
> I was able to snag a 65ZT for under 3K (I have a friend in the business), but for those willing to order online, it's available here for $2845 with free shipping!
> 
> A couple of different reviewers really like the ZT series, though they did question the value over the VT series (at list price):


Huh. If that was $1845 I'd buy one immediately. I've sworn off paying over $2,000 for a TV. Not written in stone, tho.

Rich


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## Steve

Rich said:


> Huh. If that was $1845 I'd buy one immediately. I've sworn off paying over $2,000 for a TV. Not written in stone, tho.


That same place has the 60ZT for $2179, or a 60VT for $1709. They say the VT has almost the same PQ.


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## Rich

Steve said:


> That same place has the 60ZT for $2179, or a 60VT for $1709. They say the VT has almost the same PQ.


I think Crutchfield matches prices. Not sure. They're a pretty good site to deal with. I've bought a lot of stuff from them and never had any problems.

Rich


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## Steve

Abe's has the 65VT for $2309 shipped.


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## Rich

Steve said:


> Abe's has the 65VT for $2309 shipped.


Naw, the next TV I buy, I'm not gonna settle for the next best, I'll wait for the prices to drop.

Rich


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## Steve

Rich said:


> Naw, the next TV I buy, I'm not gonna settle for the next best, I'll wait for the prices to drop.


If there are lots of ZTs in the warehouse when Panny finally discontinues them, then the prices may drop. Otherwise, once Panny goes out of the plasma business, unless they sell the Kuro technology to Samsung or LG, your next TV will likely be a 4K LED.

Seems like the power requirements to get enough brightness from tiny 4k plasma cells is prohibitive, so they figured it was time to move on from plasma. It's a shame 4k is the reason for this, because I personally wouldn't pay a nickel more for a 4k display over a 1080p display (at 65" or smaller).



> We asked Panasonic about 4K plasma a while ago, and it said that while it would be possible, it would have some monstrous power requirements. And for that reason it would probably never happen as modern eco rules and ratings simply make it impractical.
> 
> [more]


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## Rich

Steve said:


> If there are lots of ZTs in the warehouse when Panny finally discontinues them, then the prices may drop. Otherwise, once Panny goes out of the plasma business, unless they sell the Kuro technology to Samsung or LG, your next TV will likely be a 4K LED.
> 
> Seems like the power requirements to get enough brightness from tiny 4k plasma cells is prohibitive, so they figured it was time to move on from plasma. It's a shame 4k is the reason for this, because I personally wouldn't pay a nickel more for a 4k display over a 1080p display (at 65" or smaller).


So, the best TVs go the way of the best VCR, the Beta-Max. Sometimes our collective stupidity is almost too much to bear.

Rich


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## Steve

Rich said:


> So, the best TVs go the way of the best VCR, the Beta-Max. Sometimes our collective stupidity is almost too much to bear.


Seems that way. Maybe OLED will be as good, if regular LED doesn't get any better.


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## Bob North

I'm about to rave about 4K. Have been full blown DirecTV user since 96. I have Comcast Cable too because of great discount with high speed Internet and phone service. For many years I have sought what seemed to be the best possible image that I could find. Sony's 4K TV and their player are here. They work beautifully. They have 55", 65", and 84". I have the 65... the one with speakers. I have been one of those over the top seekers of perfect home theater since the 50s and the first color TVs. This new TV is what I always knew would come... if I lived long enough. "Smart TV" means you can fetch wonderful stuff without so much effort. I have a full HD subscription to the Berlin Philharmonic and I can find just about any foreign TV program or movie I want... in full HD. This TV makes every image look better... at least everything that I want. Standard def, DVD, Blu-ray, 720p, 1080i, 1080p... and 4K. The 4K is not possible to describe. It can look like glassless window to the world. Just like any digital material... the bottom line quality depends on the chain of the process. 4K camera image skillfully delivered is as good as it gets in my lifetime. There will be more advancements, but 4K will blossom first. All of the pooh-poohing is invalid. It's always the same. Do we remember how recently we were told that DirecTV would never ever offer 1080p? 

Sony is selling 4K movies to us. Some have amazing images some are less impressive... but each recording is the best it has ever looked in my home. I'm looking forward to live sports in 4K and international arts programming in 4K. Oh... it WILL happen. But give me a break DirecTV and Sony... try make it soon. I think the TV and player are a great value. They have cut the 65" set-up by $1700.


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## Laxguy

Sounds great, Bob. More likely than not, my next will be a 4K, even though internet delivery is a major stumbling block.


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## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Sounds great, Bob. More likely than not, my next will be a 4K, even though internet delivery is a major stumbling block.


It does sound great. I'm still not going to spend more than $2K for a TV set ever again (he said with tongue-in-cheek) no matter how good it is. I just bought a new Sammy BD player that upscales to 4K, can't really see any difference on a 1080p set.

Rich


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## CCarncross

Rich said:


> It does sound great. I'm still not going to spend more than $2K for a TV set ever again (he said with tongue-in-cheek) no matter how good it is. I just bought a new Sammy BD player that upscales to 4K, can't really see any difference on a 1080p set.
> 
> Rich


You shouldnt Rich, it isnt going to upscale to 4K on a display not capable of 4K....


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## bobukcat

I've briefly looked at the 4K sets in the stores but that experience means little to me until I can see one in a more typical viewing room (or my house). What I saw was definitely beautiful but motion scenes still do not look natural to me. Between that and black levels I will stay with my 60' Kuro and 65" VT Panasonic until I see something that can better them.

Part of me wishes I were blissfully ignorant of how cartoonish the picture on many LCD (I refuse to call them LED) sets are when I walk into a friend's house and see them - it drives me crazy, but I've learned to remain silent about it.


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## Scott Kocourek

> Part of me wishes I were blissfully ignorant of how cartoonish the picture on many LCD (I refuse to call them LED) sets are when I walk into a friend's house and see them - it drives me crazy, but I've learned to remain silent about it.


When I first set up my Sony tv everything looked like it was shot on green screen, we may be talking about the same thing. There were some enhancement settings that I had to turn off in order to make the picture look more life like, I assume many don't take the time to go through the menu and adjust or calibrate their tvs.


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## Laxguy

Yeah, I bet it's less than 5%..... And I haven't redone my Sammy plasma since I got it three years ago. Ooooops! Or maybe not. The color, sat., contrast seem just fine. I am sure only that they are not precisely the Pantone (or other) shades/hues that are reference.


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## bobukcat

Scott Kocourek said:


> When I first set up my Sony tv everything looked like it was shot on green screen, we may be talking about the same thing. There were some enhancement settings that I had to turn off in order to make the picture look more life like, I assume many don't take the time to go through the menu and adjust or calibrate their tvs.


I find it's usually when they have the "motion enhancement" settings (the name varies by manufacturer) enabled to try to eliminate motion blur. It's often called the soap opera effect and you are correct - most people take them out of the box and leave the default settings on. Of course a lot of people still think they are watching HD when it fact it's an SD signal and can't even tell the difference between the too. :hair:


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## Rich

CCarncross said:


> You shouldnt Rich, it isnt going to upscale to 4K on a display not capable of 4K....


I didn't think it would make any difference, but I thought I'd give it a shot. I was getting sick of the Sony 5100 BD player I was using and the Sammy was selling for $100 less on Amazon that day. Really nice BD player the Sammy is: BD-F7900.

Rich


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## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I've briefly looked at the 4K sets in the stores but that experience means little to me until I can see one in a more typical viewing room (or my house). What I saw was definitely beautiful but motion scenes still do not look natural to me. Between that and black levels I will stay with my 60' Kuro and 65" VT Panasonic until I see something that can better them.
> 
> Part of me wishes I were blissfully ignorant of how cartoonish the picture on many LCD (I refuse to call them LED) sets are when I walk into a friend's house and see them - it drives me crazy, but I've learned to remain silent about it.


Glad I'm not the only one that still calls them what they are. Yeah, I go to other people's homes and see their TVs and just marvel at how thrilled they are. Saw a 70" Sharp the other day in a house. Just kept my mouth shut. It WAS BIG, but that would have been my only positive comment.

Rich


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## Rich

Scott Kocourek said:


> When I first set up my Sony tv everything looked like it was shot on green screen, we may be talking about the same thing. There were some enhancement settings that I had to turn off in order to make the picture look more life like, I assume many don't take the time to go through the menu and adjust or calibrate their tvs.


Good assumption!

Rich


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## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I find it's usually when they have the "motion enhancement" settings (the name varies by manufacturer) enabled to try to eliminate motion blur. It's often called the soap opera effect and you are correct - most people take them out of the box and leave the default settings on. Of course a lot of people still think they are watching HD when it fact it's an SD signal and can't even tell the difference between the too. :hair:


A few years ago, my mother-in-law bought a small Vizio. When it became time for her to go to a retirement home my wife helped clean out her apartment and found that she was using the red, white and yellow wires coming from her SD cable box. She'd been "absolutely thrilled" with the Vizio's "HD" PQ.

Rich


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## Steve

Rich said:


> A few years ago, my mother-in-law bought a small Vizio. When it became time for her to go to a retirement home my wife helped clean out her apartment and found that she was using the red, white and yellow wires coming from her SD cable box. She'd been "absolutely thrilled" with the Vizio's "HD" PQ.


In a way I envy her. Sometimes ignorance is bliss!

I'm pretty fussy about PQ myself, and as good as it was out of the box, I wasn't entirely happy with my current Panny plasma until I went out and bought a colirimeter and calibrated it myself! 

I haven't unboxed my ZT yet, but a couple of reviewers mentioned the color calibration out of the box in both THX modes was pretty much spot-on. We'll see! :lol:


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## Laxguy

For me, anything over 60" in HD starts to dilute the pixel density such that the picture doesn't look as good to me. There are reasons people get/need really large sets but I am glad I am not one of them.


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## CCarncross

Laxguy said:


> For me, anything over 60" in HD starts to dilute the pixel density such that the picture doesn't look as good to me. There are reasons people get/need really large sets but I am glad I am not one of them.


I've been saying that for several years....60" is the limit for me for 1080 content...when 4k prices come down, I'm all in for an 80" screen...Exactly my point in post #7 in this very thread.


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## Rich

Steve said:


> _*In a way I envy her. Sometimes ignorance is bliss!*_


Wasn't ignorance in her case. She made a stupid mistake and was too arrogant to admit it. Arrogance and stupidity are traits she has always exhibited. Sounds harsh, I know, but it's the truth.

Rich


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## Rich

CCarncross said:


> I've been saying that for several years....60" is the limit for me for 1080 content...when 4k prices come down, I'm all in for an 80" screen...Exactly my point in post #7 in this very thread.


The more I watch my 42" set and then watch the same thing on my 60" set...well, it sure looks to me like you're right. I'd still like to have a 65" set to make sure. By the time the 4K sets get down below 2 grand I'll be in the land of the befuddled. At the moment, I'm afraid to go look at a 4K set. I really gotta wonder about them. How can they not be better than a 1080p, no matter what the pundits say?

Rich


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## CCarncross

Rich said:


> The more I watch my 42" set and then watch the same thing on my 60" set...well, it sure looks to me like you're right. I'd still like to have a 65" set to make sure. By the time the 4K sets get down below 2 grand I'll be in the land of the befuddled. At the moment, I'm afraid to go look at a 4K set. I really gotta wonder about them. How can they not be better than a 1080p, no matter what the pundits say?
> 
> Rich


Don't forget Rich, there is a lot more to it than just upping the resolution. It still has to provide a stellar picture in terms of quality, motion, color saturation, etc....the exact same things we look for in current tv's has to also be present. And some of the pundits will always be the guys who really secretly think they are fantastic but dont want to pay for premium for it so will trash it. Like someone who says HD doesnt look any better than SD so arent willing to pay the slight premium for it. There are some on these very boards.


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## Laxguy

And those who can see no difference in rez when the pixel count is much less (Direct HD feed vs. the other one)- like SD/HD in a sense.

I cannot believe anyone seeing both (HD/SD) side by side won't be able to tell the difference in 2 seconds.....


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## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Don't forget Rich, there is a lot more to it than just upping the resolution. It still has to provide a stellar picture in terms of quality, motion, color saturation, etc....the exact same things we look for in current tv's has to also be present. And some of the pundits will always be the guys who really secretly think they are fantastic but dont want to pay for premium for it so will trash it. Like someone who says HD doesnt look any better than SD so arent willing to pay the slight premium for it. There are some on these very boards.


Right, all the reasons I don't have an LCD TV. This is, obviously, not the time to jump into the pond.

Rich


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## Rich

Laxguy said:


> And those who can see no difference in rez when the pixel count is much less (Direct HD feed vs. the other one)- like SD/HD in a sense.
> 
> I cannot believe anyone seeing both (HD/SD) side by side won't be able to tell the difference in 2 seconds.....


Just as I can't believe anyone can't tell the difference between Fox's terrible 720p and CBS and NBC and their 1080p content. But, as a TV salesman once told me about a Vizio when they first came out, "Once they get them home, they won't know the difference."

Rich


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## satcrazy

Rich said:


> I haven't even considered LCDs in my opinions. After yesterday, I'm really wondering about a 65" set. I gotta get something for Xmas and that's always a challenge. I probably should have nixed off the 60" set and bought the 65" model and we wouldn't be talking about this. I gotta say that NF's super HD streams have been a revelation to me.
> 
> One of the great problems I've always had is thinking I'm wrong when someone disagrees with me. Now I've got two members that I respect with two different opinions and I know one of them is right. Guess I'd have to get a bigger set to satisfy my curiosity. But I'm not gonna spend over $2,000 for another TV. Everytime I look at my 58" 720p plasma that set me back over $2,400 I get a bit upset.
> 
> Rich
> 
> O.K.
> 
> Now what? If Panasonic quits plasma, [ say it ain't so] and we buy one, are we asking for trouble concerning parts/repair?
> 
> I've read some posts where people were complaining they had to wait forever because parts weren't available. Won't this get worse?
> 
> I love my plasma.


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## Laxguy

Sammy makes pfabulous plasmas!


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## satcrazy

Laxguy,

Before I bought my panasonic in 2011, I looked at samsung and read all that I could.

They looked too saturated to me, and after reading all the posts about the "buzz" issue, and power supply boards, I moved on.

If these issues are fixed in the new ones, I may look at them.

Really too bad about Panasonic, though I still might go there. That 4k I saw at BB did not impress me much. It really was odd [ not natural] To be fair, I would have to see it in a home setting. For that price though, I would still go with a st or vt.

By the way, the link to ECTV has decent pricing, but not an authorized dealer, and Panasonic can back out of the one year warranty because of this, so it says on panasonic's website.


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## satcrazy

Rich said:


> The more I watch my 42" set and then watch the same thing on my 60" set...well, it sure looks to me like you're right. I'd still like to have a 65" set to make sure. By the time the 4K sets get down below 2 grand I'll be in the land of the befuddled. At the moment, I'm afraid to go look at a 4K set. I really gotta wonder about them. How can they not be better than a 1080p, no matter what the pundits say?
> 
> Rich


Well, I think you'd be the right person to answer this question, since you have 8 panasonics.

Have you ever used the panasonic 1st year warranty service from panasonic on a set that wasn't purchased from an authorized dealer [ listed on their website?]


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## Laxguy

The Sammy buzz problem was, IIRC, fixed prior to my purchase three years ago. I relied on CNN reports and Consumer reports, as saturation, etc., in a store can be completely misleading. -Along with every other setting you can think of.


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## Steve

Rich said:


> The more I watch my 42" set and then watch the same thing on my 60" set...well, it sure looks to me like you're right. I'd still like to have a 65" set to make sure.


Rich, out of curiosity, do you have the 60" set at the default Panny sharpness level (usually 50)? If so, try dialing down your sharpness to 35 or 40 and then comparing. As part of calibrating my 65S1, using either an Avia or DVE calibration disk (can't remember which), I determined the optimal sharpness setting was in the high 30s.

I finally unboxed and set up my 65ZT tonight, and 40 seems about right. At the default 50, it looked too grainy to my eyes (20-20) vision, sitting about 12' away. Color out of the box using the THX setting and "normal" color balance looks pretty darned good. I don't think I'll need to calibrate further. And blacks are truly black, but still very detailed. When there's no image at all, I can't see where the screen ends and the bezel begins. That Kuro technology at work, I guess.


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> I haven't even considered LCDs in my opinions. After yesterday, I'm really wondering about a 65" set. I gotta get something for Xmas and that's always a challenge. I probably should have nixed off the 60" set and bought the 65" model and we wouldn't be talking about this. I gotta say that NF's super HD streams have been a revelation to me.
> 
> One of the great problems I've always had is thinking I'm wrong when someone disagrees with me. Now I've got two members that I respect with two different opinions and I know one of them is right. Guess I'd have to get a bigger set to satisfy my curiosity. But I'm not gonna spend over $2,000 for another TV. Everytime I look at my 58" 720p plasma that set me back over $2,400 I get a bit upset.
> 
> Rich
> 
> O.K.
> 
> Now what? If Panasonic quits plasma, [ say it ain't so] and we buy one, are we asking for trouble concerning parts/repair?
> 
> I've read some posts where people were complaining they had to wait forever because parts weren't available. Won't this get worse?
> 
> I love my plasma.
Click to expand...

I've only had to have one of the nine Panny plasmas (I returned one because it was noisy) fixed, but that was done quickly and efficiently. I'm not a big Panasonic fan, the only things I have of that brand are the plasmas. I have no idea what will happen or what the next best alternative TV is, I just hope I'll be as satisfied with it as I am with my plasmas.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Sammy makes pfabulous plasmas!


But for how long? This is stupid. Think about this. We're about to see the same thing happen that happened with the Beta-Max VCRs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Well, I think you'd be the right person to answer this question, since you have 8 panasonics.
> 
> Have you ever used the panasonic 1st year warranty service from panasonic on a set that wasn't purchased from an authorized dealer [ listed on their website?]


Yes. I already posted about that. I called Panasonic's Concierge service and they knew right away what was wrong and sent a tech very quickly. Buy it with an Amex card and you're covered for an extra year. If you get thru the first year, you should be good for about 40 more years. Seriously. Five of mine are 720p sets and, while everyone is happy with them, I do wish I had had the foresight to buy 1080p sets.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> The Sammy buzz problem was, IIRC, fixed prior to my purchase three years ago. I relied on CNN reports and Consumer reports, as saturation, etc., in a store can be completely misleading. -Along with every other setting you can think of.


I have compared the Sammys and the Pannys side by side in a store and they both had great pictures. But the prices on the Sammys were much higher than the Pannys.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Rich, out of curiosity, do you have the 60" set at the default Panny sharpness level (usually 50)? If so, try dialing down your sharpness to 35 or 40 and then comparing. As part of calibrating my 65S1, using either an Avia or DVE calibration disk (can't remember which), I determined the optimal sharpness setting was in the high 30s.
> 
> I finally unboxed and set up my 65ZT tonight, and 40 seems about right. At the default 50, it looked too grainy to my eyes (20-20) vision, sitting about 12' away. Color out of the box using the THX setting and "normal" color balance looks pretty darned good. I don't think I'll need to calibrate further. And blacks are truly black, but still very detailed. When there's no image at all, I can't see where the screen ends and the bezel begins. That Kuro technology at work, I guess.


I just reset it. I'll try it for a few days. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## satcrazy

Rich said:


> Yes. I already posted about that. I called Panasonic's Concierge service and they knew right away what was wrong and sent a tech very quickly. Buy it with an Amex card and you're covered for an extra year. If you get thru the first year, you should be good for about 40 more years. Seriously. Five of mine are 720p sets and, while everyone is happy with them, I do wish I had had the foresight to buy 1080p sets.
> 
> Rich


was that the "ST" with the loose screws? If yes, didn't you buy that from Amazon? [ Amazon is an authorized dealer]

Thanks


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> I just reset it. I'll try it for a few days. Thanx.
> 
> Rich


FWIW, I just saw the ZT60 calibration settings made by an ISF professional and it calls for sharpness of "0", which I'll try tonight.


----------



## CCarncross

satcrazy said:


> Well, I think you'd be the right person to answer this question, since you have 8 panasonics.
> 
> Have you ever used the panasonic 1st year warranty service from panasonic on a set that wasn't purchased from an authorized dealer [ listed on their website?]


Sounds like you bought from a grey marlket re-seller...you may not get warranty coverage from Panny on that one.


----------



## Rich

satcrazy said:


> was that the "ST" with the loose screws? If yes, didn't you buy that from Amazon? [ Amazon is an authorized dealer]
> 
> Thanks


Sorry, I wanted to explain further but the last two days have been really hectic for me. Yes I bought it from Amazon, but it was "sold" by Paul's. I would think both are authorized dealers.

Rich


----------



## satcrazy

CCarncross said:


> Sounds like you bought from a grey marlket re-seller...you may not get warranty coverage from Panny on that one.


Haven't bought yet.

Early in this thread, someone posted a link to East Coast tv, and their pricing is good, but they are not listed as an authorized dealer.

Got me to thinking about Rich's multiple panny plasma's, and I just wondered if any were not purchasaed through an authorized dealer, and if he ever needed work on them. Guess not.

I guess I'm a bit paranoid, but I'd rather pay a bit more than get stuck with a big repair bill the first year if Panasonic balked.


----------



## satcrazy

Rich said:


> Sorry, I wanted to explain further but the last two days have been really hectic for me. Yes I bought it from Amazon, but it was "sold" by Paul's. I would think both are authorized dealers.
> 
> Rich


Paul's is an authorized dealer according to Panasonic's web site.

Amazon, definately.


----------



## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Haven't bought yet.
> 
> Early in this thread, someone posted a link to East Coast tv, and their pricing is good, but they are not listed as an authorized dealer.
> 
> Got me to thinking about Rich's multiple panny plasma's, and I just wondered if any were not purchasaed through an authorized dealer, and if he ever needed work on them. Guess not.
> 
> I guess I'm a bit paranoid, but I'd rather pay a bit more than get stuck with a big repair bill the first year if Panasonic balked.


Nope, just that one that I bought from Amazon. I'm pretty sure if you get thru the first year, you'll have the damn things laying around for the rest of your life. Try selling a 720p set. Doesn't seem possible. Even offered a plumber my 58" 720p set for $500 and he didn't want it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

The prices are dropping. PC Richard had two Sony's on sale the other day. One was a 55" with all the bells and whistles (all the stuff I don't need) and a 65" set that looked decent at a price that I can't remember. Around 5 grand I think. I'll wait.

Rich


----------



## Rockaway1836

Well I have totally lost my mind !! I just ordered a XBR-65X900A. I will be picking it up on Wednesday.


----------



## Laxguy

Go, man, go! Sounds great.


----------



## Rockaway1836

I have been trying to talk myself out of it for 3 months. The $500 price drop and free media player were just to much to resist. I was also able to get them throw in a Sony 3D WIFI BD player, and an LG WIFI BD player as well.


----------



## klang

We will be needing a new 55" set in January so I've started looking around a bit. Can't help but admire the 4k sets on display showing demo material. Yesterday ran across a 65" Samsung 4K that had been left tuned to a 1080i satellite signal. Yuk. The built-in scaler just isn't up to the task. At present a lot of what we watch in the family room is just normal HD satellite stuff. I'll be sticking with a 1080p set this time around.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I'll be sticking with a 1080p set this time around.


I feel the same way. I'm very happy with my decision to buy that 65ZT60, which apparently will be one of the last plasmas Panasonic makes. PQ is absolutely gorgeous. I recommend you take a good look at the Panny 55VT60, which should have comparable PQ. About $1600 shipped.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> I feel the same way. I'm very happy with my decision to buy that 65ZT60, which apparently will be one of the last plasmas Panasonic makes. PQ is absolutely gorgeous. I recommend you take a good look at the Panny 55VT60, which should have comparable PQ. About $1600 shipped.


The VT60 is on my short list. I also really liked the Samsung UN55F8000 LCD. In the showroom the Samsung looked better to both me and my wife. I've been around this stuff so I do understand the limitations of the showroom. More research ahead.

One advantage for the Panasonic, I've got an investment in Calman calibration software and meters etc.. Calman can directly talk to and adjust the Panasonic display. Almost automatic calibration.


----------



## satcrazy

Steve said:


> I feel the same way. I'm very happy with my decision to buy that 65ZT60, which apparently will be one of the last plasmas Panasonic makes. PQ is absolutely gorgeous. I recommend you take a good look at the Panny 55VT60, which should have comparable PQ. About $1600 shipped.


Steve:

Any problems with your ZT? Did you buy a extended warranty?


----------



## Steve

satcrazy said:


> Any problems with your ZT? Did you buy a extended warranty


No problems yet, knock on wood. Picture quality is best I've seen at normal viewing distances. Colors look spot-on to me in THX mode, so no need to calibrate, IMO.

I know I'm probably jinxing myself, but I never buy extended warranties on displays. My feeling is if they make it through the initial year with no issues, they're usually fine for many years after that. Fingers-crossed that continues to be the case!


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> No problems yet, knock on wood. Picture quality is best I've seen at normal viewing distances. Colors look spot-on to me in THX mode, so no need to calibrate, IMO.
> 
> I know I'm probably jinxing myself, but I never buy extended warranties on displays. My feeling is if they make it through the initial year with no issues, they're usually fine for many years after that. Fingers-crossed that continues to be the case!


I use the Amex card on TVs. You get the mfg's one year warranty and Amex extends it for another year. If you don't have a problem with a plasma for the first few months, you'll probably never have to get rid of it. I've had problems with two plasmas out of nine that I have bought since 06 and they showed up pretty quickly. One I just returned and one I had fixed.

Rich


----------



## inkahauts

Depends on the issue but I have to say you are generally right on. Once it's working it just works usually.


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Depends on the issue but I have to say you are generally right on. Once it's working it just works usually.


Yup, I never realized how dependable the plasmas would be. Now I've got five 720p plasmas that still have great pictures on them and I haven't been able to give any of them away. I'll probably be buying a new set next year in the late winter, early spring and I'll have to do something with one of the 720ps. I know this: I'm certainly not gonna put a perfectly good TV into the recycling center. I'll find someone to give it to.

Rich


----------



## aquatic

A long while (4 1/2? maybe 5 1/2 years) ago I jumped on an HP 50" plasma--720p. The ONLY issue I had was the HDMI input board crapped out (the lightning hit we took probably contributed....) so 400 screws later the board got replaced and the thing has survived being on from 8am -11pm pretty much every day. Turns out HP is a rebadges Panny, so.... The display seems like it's setting a tad dim--but them my eyes are also older too...

Been eyeing a newer machine--at first 1080 now maybe the 4k jobs. Can't really justify the expense when the plasma is working just fine though. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## Rich

aquatic said:


> A long while (4 1/2? maybe 5 1/2 years) ago I jumped on an HP 50" plasma--720p. The ONLY issue I had was the HDMI input board crapped out (the lightning hit we took probably contributed....) so 400 screws later the board got replaced and the thing has survived being on from 8am -11pm pretty much every day. Turns out HP is a rebadges Panny, so.... The display seems like it's setting a tad dim--but them my eyes are also older too...
> 
> Been eyeing a newer machine--at first 1080 now maybe the 4k jobs. Can't really justify the expense when the plasma is working just fine though. Decisions, decisions.


I really think things are either gonna change drastically or stay the same. If 4K takes off, I'd regret buying a new Panny plasma again. If things stay the same, we've only got a short time period to get a new Panny plasma. Clearly, we're at a crossroad and...which way to turn? I dunno. I'm gonna wait for awhile and see what happens. I've been putting off going to see a 4K set in the proper environment for fear of just buying one now and regretting it later. I hope 4K takes off and does well. I'd like to buy one when the prices drop. I'm not gonna spend 4 to 5 grand for a TV, that's a bit much, I think.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> I really think things are either gonna change drastically or stay the same. If 4K takes off, I'd regret buying a new Panny plasma again. If things stay the same, we've only got a short time period to get a new Panny plasma. Clearly, we're at a crossroad and...which way to turn?


As you know, I opted for the 65ZT60 a couple of months ago, and I don't regret it for a minute. Every time I turn on the set, I'm very happy I went the way I did. I don't sit closer than 8' to the set, and I seriously doubt 4k would look any better in my living room. Just me, tho.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> As you know, I opted for the 65ZT60 a couple of months ago, and I don't regret it for a minute. Every time I turn on the set, I'm very happy I went the way I did. I don't sit closer than 8' to the set, and I seriously doubt 4k would look any better in my living room. Just me, tho.


I have to see the 4Ks before I can argue about them. What I saw in a Costco was amazing, but it was a string of photos. If the 4Ks come close to that demo, it will be far better than any of my Panny plasmas. I had a conversation with a well informed person a few years ago (we all know him) and he told me they were coming. I thought he was kidding. I really thought 1080p would be the last, best resolution we'd see. More investigation is obviously needed on my part, but I fear that if my heart fills with lust, I'll just pay whatever it takes to get one. I've never driven a Corvette for the same reason. Once my heart fills with lust...

Rich


----------



## Gloria_Chavez

Question re: 4K. Who will provide content? Do DTV or Dish have satellites available? Are they ready to commit to 3 formats - SD, HD, and 4K?

Do any OTA stations have the radio spectrum to transmit 4K?

What streaming services have announced 4K. And at 4x the data required for HD content, how many homes will stream a 2 hour movie that eats up 100GBs?


----------



## Laxguy

All good questions, and points that have been brought up as to why 4k will see tough sledding for some time.


----------



## P Smith

Finally, I see 4k with right size - 84" Sony, but the price ... 25G... OMG !
http://www.frys.com/product/7963890?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


----------



## inkahauts

Gloria_Chavez said:


> Question re: 4K. Who will provide content? Do DTV or Dish have satellites available? Are they ready to commit to 3 formats - SD, HD, and 4K?
> 
> Do any OTA stations have the radio spectrum to transmit 4K?
> 
> What streaming services have announced 4K. And at 4x the data required for HD content, how many homes will stream a 2 hour movie that eats up 100GBs?


DIRECTV already supports three formats this would be four and they have said they will already if their is content basically.

Dish I'm sure will somehow.

Netflix has said they will and amazon is shooting their series in 4k. Although I imagine most if not everyone is shooting tv shows in 4k now if they have newer equipment.

And I believe sony is streaming some 4k movies already with their tvs.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> As you know, I opted for the 65ZT60 a couple of months ago, and I don't regret it for a minute. Every time I turn on the set, I'm very happy I went the way I did. I don't sit closer than 8' to the set, and I seriously doubt 4k would look any better in my living room. Just me, tho.


I was thinking about your post and your TV. Please don't think any of my posts have been aimed at you. I'd really like to buy the same set you did, but I hope you understand my hesitation about doing that. This time, I really want to be sure.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> All good questions, and points that have been brought up as to why 4k will see tough sledding for some time.


Agreed. I do hope everything gets resolved and this doesn't turn out to be another 3D fiasco. I don't want to buy a TV and regret it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> DIRECTV already supports three formats this would be four and they have said they will already if their is content basically. Dish I'm sure will somehow. Netflix has said they will and amazon is shooting their series in 4k. Although I imagine most if not everyone is shooting tv shows in 4k now if they have newer equipment. And I believe sony is streaming some 4k movies already with their tvs.


That's what I wanna see, positive posts! I've got a good feeling about the 4K sets. I hope, I really hope it takes off. Already, I'm reading about 4K sets dropping into a more reasonable price range.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> I was thinking about your post and your TV. Please don't think any of my posts have been aimed at you.


Not at all, Rich. Totally understand the issue you're wrestling with, especially if you don't need a new display today. If my daughter didn't need a new large screen for her new home, I'm not sure I would have replaced my 3yo 65S1 right now, even knowing Panny was going to stop making plasmas in 2014.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Not at all, Rich. Totally understand the issue you're wrestling with, especially if you don't need a new display today. If my daughter didn't need a new large screen for her new home, I'm not sure I would have replaced my 3yo 65S1 right now, even knowing Panny was going to stop making plasmas in 2014.


Thanx, Steve. That's another thing I'm wrestling with, if I wait too long are there gonna any Panny plasmas left? I can't believe we're doing this again. Letting the best TVs just die out. We went thru this with the Beta-Max format for VCRs, did it again with Macs and here we are repeating history again. We should be better than this.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> Thanx, Steve. That's another thing I'm wrestling with, if I wait too long are there gonna any Panny plasmas left? I can't believe we're doing this again. Letting the best TVs just die out. We went thru this with the Beta-Max format for VCRs, did it again with Macs and here we are repeating history again. We should be better than this.


At least they're stopping plasma production for a legitimate reason. Reportedly they can't make an energy star compliant plasma with a 4k pixel size, and since 4k will be the new "normal" in the coming years, they figure folks won't want 1080p anymore. It's unfortunate, but it makes sense, based on how 1080p knocked out 720p sets, and 720p sets knocked out 480p sets.

I still use a 42" 480p plasma in my bedroom, wall-mounted about 15' feet from my pillow. If I didn't know and someone told me it was a 1080p (or even a 4k) set, from that viewing distance, I'd never know it wasn't. :shrug:


----------



## yosoyellobo

Just like to add fuel to the fire. Samsung 110" UHD. Only 150k.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/samsung-sells-110-inch-ultra-hd-tv-for-150000/


----------



## P Smith

damn, I thought Sammy would make the behemoth in 8K


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> At least they're stopping plasma production for a legitimate reason. Reportedly they can't make an energy star compliant plasma with a 4k pixel size, and since 4k will be the new "normal" in the coming years, they figure folks won't want 1080p anymore. It's unfortunate, but it makes sense, based on how 1080p knocked out 720p sets, and 720p sets knocked out 480p sets.
> 
> I still use a 42" 480p plasma in my bedroom, wall-mounted about 15' feet from my pillow. If I didn't know and someone told me it was a 1080p (or even a 4k) set, from that viewing distance, I'd never know it wasn't. :shrug:


The last 720p Panny plasma I bought shows up as a 1080p according to every HR I've put on it. I have no explanation for this, but it's got a really good picture on it.

Unfortunately, what you've written makes sense. I also read that only 5% of the TV sales the last year were for plasmas.

Rich


----------



## Rich

yosoyellobo said:


> Just like to add fuel to the fire. Samsung 110" UHD. Only 150k.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/samsung-sells-110-inch-ultra-hd-tv-for-150000/


You'd really have to be loaded (money and booze) to go for that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> damn, I thought Sammy would make the behemoth in 8K


With wheels, and getting 50 miles to the gallon. And its own prefab house.

Rich


----------



## CCarncross

Rich said:


> The last 720p Panny plasma I bought shows up as a 1080p according to every HR I've put on it. I have no explanation for this, but it's got a really good picture on it.
> 
> Unfortunately, what you've written makes sense. I also read that only 5% of the TV sales the last year were for plasmas.
> 
> Rich


Rich, even though its may have a native output resolution of 720p or even 768 which many of them did, it still supports a 1080p input video source. That is why your Directv receivers say it supports 1080p


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Rich, even though its may have a native output resolution of 720p or even 768 which many of them did, it still supports a _*1080p input video source*_. That is why your Directv receivers say it supports 1080p


Do you mean something like HDMI? Not sure I understand.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

he mean your 720p plasma TV's video processor (inside of the TV) is accepting 1080i/p signals via HDMI or Component inputs,

but transforming the signals into the TV's video RAM with parameters 1280x720 pixels (or so, depend of pixel's physical count of the used plasma's panel)


----------



## CCarncross

Rich said:


> Do you mean something like HDMI? Not sure I understand.
> 
> Rich


If your tv is 720 only, then for the sake of discussion lets assume its screen resolution is 1280x720, so no matter what channel you are watching, it displays a 1280x720 image....it may be from a 480 source(SD channel or a non-upscaled DVD), a 720 source(an HD channel like ESPN or ABC), or a 1080 source(like NBC or CBS, or Blu-Ray, or even SuperHD Netflix). HDMI is the cable type, HDMI, DVI, VGA, and Component all can handle transmitting many/most HD resolutions, the source is the actual resolution of the video from the device that is playing it...most 720 HDTV's will accept a 1080 source, but downrez it to 720, so your tv supports 1080, and the Directv receiver senses that it does allowing you to check it on the video resolution checkbox screen.


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> If your tv is 720 only, then for the sake of discussion lets assume its screen resolution is 1280x720, so no matter what channel you are watching, it displays a 1280x720 image....it may be from a 480 source(SD channel or a non-upscaled DVD), a 720 source(an HD channel like ESPN or ABC), or a 1080 source(like NBC or CBS, or Blu-Ray, or even SuperHD Netflix). HDMI is the cable type, HDMI, DVI, VGA, and Component all can handle transmitting many/most HD resolutions, the source is the actual resolution of the video from the device that is playing it...most 720 HDTV's will accept a 1080 source, but downrez it to 720, so your tv supports 1080, and the Directv receiver senses that it does allowing you to check it on the video resolution checkbox screen.


OK, but I've got five 720p plasmas and only one of them allows the HR to have the 1080p box checked. That's what I don't get.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

the 1080p box at HR's settings comes up after your TV respond (send EDID info) to DVR's discovery program;
so it's up to TV to inform what A/V inputs/formats they could take; also it depend of a version of the TV's FW
perhaps it's time to upgrade the FW ?


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> the 1080p box at HR's settings comes up after your TV respond (send EDID info) to DVR's discovery program;
> so it's up to TV to inform what A/V inputs/formats they could take; also it depend of a version of the TV's FW
> perhaps it's time to upgrade the FW ?


Not on that TV. No input for Ethernet. Just considered it an oddity.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Not on that TV. No input for Ethernet. Just considered it an oddity.
> 
> Rich


well, I would call the mfg comp and check, sometimes there is other provisional ways to upgrade FW, include replacing small PCB or a chip inside


----------



## CCarncross

Rich said:


> OK, but I've got five 720p plasmas and only one of them allows the HR to have the 1080p box checked. That's what I don't get.
> 
> Rich


That probably means that only one of them, most likely the newest or best model of the bunch supports 1080p/24. Remember its not just the 1080p resolution that matters its also the 24 frames support to get 1080p from Directv.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> well, I would call the mfg comp and check, sometimes there is other provisional ways to upgrade FW, include replacing small PCB or a chip inside


Pete, there's nothing wrong with that TV, I was just remarking on the oddity I had noticed.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> That probably means that only one of them, most likely the newest or best model of the bunch supports 1080p/24. Remember its not just the 1080p resolution that matters its also the 24 frames support to get 1080p from Directv.


Can't remember where or when I bought it, but it's sure got a damn good picture for a 720p set. I've never tried 1080p content on it.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

you have a chance to pull EDID if you will download some EDID parser program to your PC and will connect to the TV; then we/you will know what resolutions/frame rates it is support


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> you have a chance to pull EDID if you will download some EDID parser program to your PC and will connect to the TV; then we/you will know what resolutions/frame rates it is support


You KNOW I'm not gonna do that! You know I'm too lazy to do things like that. Geeze, Pete!

Rich


----------



## P Smith

I'm ready to fly  and help you in the endeavor


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> I'm ready to fly  and help you in the endeavor


That would put even more stress in my life. :roundandr

First you and then Victoria?

Rich


----------



## satcrazy

Well, Panny is replacing their plasma line with 4k, to the tune of 5"K" for the 65". I don't know what the 58" is going for.

Here are two links that don't sound promising. It is still led, after all.

http://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-l65wt600-wt600-ultra-hd-4k-tv-review.9451

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/panasonic-announces-4k-led-tv-lineup-touts-plasma-like-1080p-led-tvs/

Amazon is sold out of the ST series. [ Plasma]

Like any new product, one should wait for the bugs to be worked out.

I see Netflix will have 4k streaming, but you better have great bandwidth. [ More $ ]

If Satellite ever carries 4k, rest assured it will be limited and certainly not cheap [ the demand will be slow in comming, unless prices hit rock bottom]

I don't know why plasma was touted as being inferior, most people I know admit it is a superior picture. I think Panasonic could have continued to produce a limited line for the people who wanted it. I certainly think there are enough plasma fans to support it. If 4k doesn't take off for them, then what? Nothing like putting all your eggs into one basket.

Just my thoughts.......


----------



## Steve

satcrazy said:


> I don't know why plasma was touted as being inferior, most people I know admit it is a superior picture. *I think Panasonic could have continued to produce a limited line for the people who wanted it. I certainly think there are enough plasma fans to support it.* If 4k doesn't take off for them, then what? Nothing like putting all your eggs into one basket.


Good point. especially for sports fans. One of the "cons" in a that review of the 600ST was _"blurring with broadcast sports"_. PQ aside, might take another year or two before GPUs in 4k displays can match plasma refresh rates.


----------



## sigma1914

I posted this at AVS... I'm kinda hesitant to get the 4k 55 inch model because I'm worried it can't match the plasma tvs. I really don't like LCD/LED anymore and my last 2 sets have been plasma. I'm interested how it compares... specifically for everyday viewing and sports.

The response below has made me stop wanting 4k.


> If you are looking for plasma like technology, buy an OLED or plasma. 4K will not be your answer.


----------



## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> I posted this at AVS... I'm kinda hesitant to get the 4k 55 inch model because I'm worried it can't match the plasma tvs. I really don't like LCD/LED anymore and my last 2 sets have been plasma. I'm interested how it compares... specifically for everyday viewing and sports.
> 
> The response below has made me stop wanting 4k.


Awww, that's just great. That just confuses me more.

Rich


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## satcrazy

Looks like 4K is panasonic's game hand.

I just read an article online that Sony and Panasonic's joint venture on OLED's have gone SOUTH.

Seems Price and durability were two of the factors.

Now I realy believe exiting the plasma line altogether might be a considerable mistake.

If Plasma's were selling so badly, why are they now gone?

Dumb move if you ask me.


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## Laxguy

Quite possibly! But boy were they banging out 4Ks at CES. OLED 4Ks were seen, too. 

BTW, Sammy makes nice plasmas!


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## satcrazy

Could it be that "new car smell" ?

Like I originally posted, after looking at one [4K] at BB, IMO it does not blow my Panny away.

What brand were the oled-4k's? How big, how much?

Sammy's aren't bad.[ as a second choice] Did someone post they cured the buzz issue? I'm sure the over saturation issue can be dialed down.


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## Rich

satcrazy said:


> Could it be that "new car smell" ?
> 
> Like I originally posted, after looking at one [4K] at BB, IMO it does not blow my Panny away.
> 
> What brand were the oled-4k's? How big, how much?
> 
> Sammy's aren't bad.[ as a second choice] Did someone post they cured the buzz issue? I'm sure the over saturation issue can be dialed down.


The issues with the OLEDs seems to be the expense and difficulty making them. I haven't seen any major price drops yet.

Rich


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