# Choppy Video / Dish Hd Locals?



## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

I have been reading about the choppy video stutter condition some have been experiencing. I'm just trying to figure out if what I'm experiencing is the same thing as it is very subtle in nature, and it only affects my Dish HD locals. It seems others are describing this condition on many different channels. 
I first noticed this while watching the US open this weekend. Like I said it's very subtle, but the movement or motion in the picture does not look natural or smooth. This condition does not exist with my OTA HD locals. Great picture there. Is this the video stutter problem? If not, does anyone notice this with their Dish HD locals? My DMA is Wash, DC.


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## mikehd (Sep 11, 2003)

I just noticed this same effect on our Dish HD locals. Watching Letterman or Leno or whoever is on ABC showed the same effect. Kinda surreal. We only get PBS OTA and it looks smooth as one would expect. Our DMA is Portland, Oregon.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Try the skip back button a few times if you see this. It seems to fix the stutter problems on the HD LIL's


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

I have a feeling what your seeing is a result of the MPEG4 encoding and compression that DISH is using. I see the same thing on my locals most of the time, but not OTA, same thing on StarzHD. If a skip back doesn't change anything and it's like that pretty much all the time but not on other channels I don't think it's the 622 it's probably the source material.


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

Rob Glasser said:


> I have a feeling what your seeing is a result of the MPEG4 encoding and compression that DISH is using. I see the same thing on my locals most of the time, but not OTA, same thing on StarzHD. If a skip back doesn't change anything and it's like that pretty much all the time but not on other channels I don't think it's the 622 it's probably the source material.


So is this something Dish considers a problem, and is working on to correct? I hope so. Even though as I said it is subtle, It really takes away from the HD viewing experience. This is especially true when watching sporting events.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Eagles said:


> So is this something Dish considers a problem, and is working on to correct? I hope so. Even though as I said it is subtle, It really takes away from the HD viewing experience. This is especially true when watching sporting events.


I don't know, the best thing for you to do would be to call or e-mail and let them know you're not happy with the quality. They may be trying to make it better or they may not, but if everyone starts filing complaints about it maybe it will bring it to their attention. I know a number of people have already done this, myself included.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

send all picture quality complaints to : [email protected]


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## Hachima (Jun 24, 2006)

I'm not sure if this is the same problem but I've noticed a ghosting effect of some of the local HD content. In fast action scenes you can see a ghosting image of the fast moving object.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

Hachima said:


> I'm not sure if this is the same problem but I've noticed a ghosting effect of some of the local HD content. In fast action scenes you can see a ghosting image of the fast moving object.


Yep, another side effect of the MPEG4 encoding and compression. This is only visible on true MPEG4 channels as far as I can tell. Some channels tend to be worse than others. i.e. I think it's worst in my market on the NBC affiliate.


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## Buffalo Bill (Apr 5, 2006)

We thought we were going nuts when trying to watch the NHL final game 7 on NBC HD. Finally had to switch to my local non-HD channel to even watch the game as the video was so odd I thought I was having flashbacks to the 70's. Resetting the receiver, skipping back, etc. did not help. The video stutter is so bad on my local NBC HD channel that we have to watch in SD. Sigh. At least this replacement 622's HDMI is still working after a month (dang there I jinxed it). As has been mentioned before, this seems to be a problem with only my NBC affiliate as the other channels are fine.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

Rob- Very new here with the 622, just 5 hours but I would agree that the stuttering I'm seeing is only on the MPeg 4 channels and looks exactly what I would call encoder artifacts. I suspect that Dish will be honing in on their MP4 skills over the next few months. From my experience with MP4 and WMV encoding, this stuff is a real art to get it perfect. Mostly it is with rapid scene motion that I'm seeing. While the stuttering is annoying, I would be able to tolerate it for a reasonable learning curve for the Dish encoding engineers. 

Channels I see this ion are HG HD, Starz HD and NG HD channels. Those are all the MP4 channels I have had time to watch today but I did not see any stuttering on the half dozen VOOM channels nor, HDNET.


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

DonLandis said:


> Rob- Very new here with the 622, just 5 hours but I would agree that the stuttering I'm seeing is only on the MPeg 4 channels and looks exactly what I would call encoder artifacts. I suspect that Dish will be honing in on their MP4 skills over the next few months. From my experience with MP4 and WMV encoding, this stuff is a real art to get it perfect. Mostly it is with rapid scene motion that I'm seeing. While the stuttering is annoying, I would be able to tolerate it for a reasonable learning curve for the Dish encoding engineers.
> 
> Channels I see this ion are HG HD, Starz HD and NG HD channels. Those are all the MP4 channels I have had time to watch today but I did not see any stuttering on the half dozen VOOM channels nor, HDNET.


Thanks for the info Don. Welcome to the 622 club, hopefully you enjoy it.


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## slapshot (Mar 18, 2004)

I have the same problem, but I've only noticed it on the HD Locals...... The NHL game 7 drove me nuts.... I'm from a professional film/video backround and to me, it looks like a frame rate issue. Normal video is about 30fps, while film is usually 24fps. This looks to me to be somewhere in the middle, maybe 26 or 27 fps., therefore the 'choppy' look on horizontal fast motion.... Just my 2 cents ...


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

slapshot said:


> I have the same problem, but I've only noticed it on the HD Locals...... The NHL game 7 drove me nuts.... I'm from a professional film/video backround and to me, it looks like a frame rate issue. Normal video is about 30fps, while film is usually 24fps. This looks to me to be somewhere in the middle, maybe 26 or 27 fps., therefore the 'choppy' look on horizontal fast motion.... Just my 2 cents ...


 I think that you have hit the nail on the head with the choppy video problems . The frame rate does look like it is missing some frames that makes it look like bad film quality even on live video. I wonder how much bandwith they would lose by increasing the frame rate to 30 fps? IF that is all that it takes to fix the STarz hd and Hd locals problem then they should go ahead and do it yesterday.


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## bighifi (Aug 11, 2004)

Has anyone else noticed the jaggies on the MPEG4 Stuff. I get really bad jagged edges on some of the local HD and StrarzHD. I had not seen anyone else mention this. I know it is not the projector becuause I run HD-DVD just fine. ComCast HD looks fine also.


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## MVL999 (May 14, 2004)

I just had my 622 installed about a week ago. I have noticed the stuttering problem when playing back programs recorded from HBOHD and SHOHD. i don't believe these are mpeg4 channels. Anyway to fix this problem?


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## Rob Glasser (Feb 22, 2005)

MVL999 said:


> I just had my 622 installed about a week ago. I have noticed the stuttering problem when playing back programs recorded from HBOHD and SHOHD. i don't believe these are mpeg4 channels. Anyway to fix this problem?


The 4 ways I've tried getting rid of the stuttering problem.

1. Reboot (hold down the power key until the unit resets)
2. If it's live try skipping back, sometimes this will correct the stuttering
3. Wait it out, lately for me it's only lasted a few minutes at a stretch then goes away.
4. Try switching to a different program and then going back to the event you were watching. I found switching to a different video type helps. i.e. if on HD try and SD channel and then back to the HD one.

Some or all of these may work for you.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

GOOD NEWS ! I looks like Dish finally got my Cbs hd local station right in Houston -on channel KHOU channel 6390/11. It looks as good as the ota verison or the Cbs hd station , channel 9483 in New York. The panning scenes look the same , no more jerky or choppy video. I sent an email off the to the dishquality folks telling them of a job well done. See complaining by emails does work. 

[email protected]

Now if they could just apply what they learned about the Mpeg4 locals in Houston to the Starz hd station I would be estatic.


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## mbetts (Jun 20, 2006)

I get my locals OTA but have experienced the choppy video problem. A reboot of my 622 seems to have fixed the problem.


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

GREAT NEWS!!! They fixed Starzhd . I received an email from the dishquality folks today asking me how it looked. It looks great!! NO more jerky video on panning shots. This is wonderfull - both my Dish hd locals and Starz hd movie channel can actually be watched without making me sick to my stomack from the motion artifacts. Dish finally got this mpeg 4 thing RIGHT! :allthumbs It looks like we won't have to worry about all the hd going mpeg4 next year after all. The future looks bright!

See complaining does work. Send all picture/audio complaints to : [email protected] .


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## Eagles (Dec 31, 2003)

DonLandis said:


> Rob- Very new here with the 622, just 5 hours but I would agree that the stuttering I'm seeing is only on the MPeg 4 channels and looks exactly what I would call encoder artifacts. I suspect that Dish will be honing in on their MP4 skills over the next few months. From my experience with MP4 and WMV encoding, this stuff is a real art to get it perfect. Mostly it is with rapid scene motion that I'm seeing. While the stuttering is annoying, I would be able to tolerate it for a reasonable learning curve for the Dish encoding engineers.


Let's hope so. The MLB All-Star game last night on my Disd HD local (Fox) was really terrible. The picture seemed to be loaded with background artifacts, and for lack of a better description, was not clean looking. Viewing the same telecast via OTA local was like night and day. 
As Don said, hopefully this is something Dish will be tweaking as time goes on.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Well if LA Dish Locals are any indications, I definitely saw a gradual PQ improvement over time. Both in PQ and corruption time occurances. One point I will make, going from MPEG2 to MPEG4 is a paradigm shift especially when adding the fact it is for Local HD channels and not just a couple of Nationals. I personally espected some growing pains and I also expect this issue to improve over time. (My opinion ofcourse  )


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