# Making The Switch... (i'm delusional)



## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

i've read so much the past couple days my head hurts and i still dont think i've made my decision... the more i read, the more questions i have (i always want to make the best decision and over research every purchase i make, no matter what it is((took me 6 months to pick out an electric saver :bang))... it's a curse)

i currently have cable and i'm fed up with em...

i would like to know if there is some timing invovled in switching... i've noticed there are new HD channels coming sometime soon to one of the companies(i cant remember which is which and who is who anymore from all the reading haha)... couldn't find a date or what channels

this is what i'm looking for... 2 HD recievers, 1 HDDVR... i'm near Rochester, MN and would like those local channels if anyone knows if they're ever coming to HD... if not i would consider a close WI local HD channel as i'm a Packer fan and that's the only sports i watch...

i'll take the premium channels they give for free but will cancel as soon as the 3 months is up... i don't need any of those channels... that's what i have netflix for... and i'd like to keep my costs down (one of the many reasons i'm leaving cable)

does someone have a list of the current and coming soon HD channels to compare... i believe everything i've seen on the net is outdated... i record a LOT of shows...

i'll more than likely be looking into the choice xtra and americas top 200 price range...

also, when i do make the call to get it installed, do i suggest the receiver model so i'm not screwed into upgrading in a month or so? i don't trust big companies... i can see them giving me their old BS

hopefully it all makes sense what i'm looking for... again, my brain is shot... if there are questions please ask


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

So, you are asking for dish DVRs, receivers?


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## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

i'm asking which service, dish network or directtv, is better for me or in general... *shrug*


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

YOu should find a lot of posts where ppl compare. In short - DTV: sport; dish: cheaper.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith is verbally challenged.

We can't tell you what's best for you.

Your first order of business is to investigate local channel coverage. DBS doesn't offer nearly the complement of "local" channels that cable typically does and neither gets all of them. If subchannels are needed, you'll want to seek out equipment that has OTA tuner capability. DIRECTV HD receivers and DVRs require an external box while DISH Network equipment uses internal OTA tuners.

DBS is NOT going to get you nearby channels at this time. "Significantly Viewed" is, for the moment, a relative cable exclusive (unless you can get them OTA).

DIRECTV does NOT offer HD locals in area 55902 (a random Rochester Zip code). You can check your zip code here: http://www.directv.com/locals

DISH Network is supposed to be adding Rochester HD some time next month.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Hey, hey - I know you last six years here - you still harsh on ppl, not necessary to go personal escapade again and again; stick with a topic, please.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

P Smith said:


> YOu should find a lot of posts where ppl compare. In short - DTV: sport; dish: cheaper.


While I don't think there's a lot of argument about sports programming being DirecTV's forte, it is certainly not the case that Dish is necessarily cheaper.

Dish will tend to be cheaper for smaller, simpler systems (no HD, no DVR, 4 rooms or less), but DirecTV is often less expensive for larger or more technically-advanced systems. You have to actually run the numbers for your desired configuration to see. And since there's a 2-year commitment involved, it's best to project out all costs for 2 years, and total it up.

People who haven't done this may be in for a surprise...


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## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

thanks harsh and battlezone... 

p smith, i can see his point... sorry... and with 7000+ posts... wow

harsh, where do you see that dish is adding rochester next month to their local lineup... is there an updated list somewhere of soon-to-be-added channels with dates (local and HD)

i'm looking forward to the DIY channel that i see both of them offer... and it looks like i won't be loosing any of the channels i frequent... either one is going to be an upgrade from what i have

the weather will effect my reception... true or false? 
i've had cable for a long time in fear of this... remember, i live in minnesota... a lot of snow and thunderstorms... 

also, is the best place to place the dish on the house? i know the less the dish moves the better...


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Realist said:


> dish is adding rochester next month to their local lineup...
> 
> i'm looking forward to the DIY channel that i see both of them offer...
> 
> ...


Dont count on promises from either company. If its not available now, make arrangements for picking them up using an OTA tuner. DirecTv and Dish both offer them.

Weather will affect your reception during storms which show to be RED on your local doppler radar, when that RED is between you and the satellite. The outages usually last less than a few minutes, and that is the time you should be watching your local station to see if you need to head to the basement  Again, OTA is a good idea regardless of whether your locals are carried by the satellite. Winter isnt usually a problem, but wet heavy snow can knock out the signal. A dish heater, or having the dish pole mounted on the ground where you can easily knock off the snow is a good idea.

My preference is to NOT mount the dish on a roof, as it makes it very difficult to access in the event of a snowstorm. A side mount, if possible, in a protected area...or a pole mount with easy access would be my choices. Sometimes trees will be the final straw in where you HAVE to put it.

Being a Packer fan, you may be able to subscribe to the Sunday Ticket package provided by DirecTv and get the Packer games. You would have to check the blackout rules for your zip code. Im not sure how they work when you are in a neighboring state to the team. Im a Packer fan, but am in Arkansas, so dont have to worry about any local stations carrying the games.


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## camo (Apr 15, 2010)

I just came from Dish. Don't forget to add 5.99 for locals and only the big 4 are in HD, CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX. With Direct I have 4 extra locals in HD total of 8. Add 10 dollars for HD programming for both . Add 7 dollars for each additional HD receiver with dish, 5 dollars for each additional SD receiver. Not sure what direct charges. 
If you want to add a hard drive to your account add 39.99 activation fee with Dish. Direct is free. 
If you watch sports on your RSN only expect 1/3 of the games in HD on Dish. 100% for Direct.
Here is a link to additional fees you may see with Dish. http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/legal/RCA.pdf
I almost forgot there is a 6 dollar extra fee per account for DVR service. So package price + 6 dollar DVR fee, + 10 dollar HD fee + 5.99 for locals then 7 dollars for each additional HD receiver. 17 dollars each additional DVR fee.
America's top 200, 53 dollars adds up to 69 dollars with HD+ locals and 1 DVR. 76 dollars for second HD receiver.

So far I'm more pleased with Direct. Dish has a lot more hidden fees you find out about once you sign the two year contract.


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## VDP07 (Feb 22, 2006)

camo said:


> I just came from Dish. Don't forget to add 5.99 for locals and only the big 4 are in HD, CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX. With Direct I have 4 extra locals in HD total of 8. Add 10 dollars for HD programming for both . Add 7 dollars for each additional HD receiver with dish, 5 dollars for each additional SD receiver. Not sure what direct charges.
> If you want to add a hard drive to your account add 39.99 activation fee with Dish. Direct is free.
> If you watch sports on your RSN only expect 1/3 of the games in HD on Dish. 100% for Direct.
> Here is a link to additional fees you may see with Dish. http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/legal/RCA.pdf
> ...


Regarding Dish Network fees. Locals are now included where available in the package prices. Additional non- dvr solo receivers are $7, HD or SD. 1 time 39.99 EHD fee covers all archive EHD's on your account and supplements, not replaces, the DVR's internal HD. Like with anything, If you come across fees you were not aware of, it is probably because of a lack of due dilegence on your part prior to signing on the dotted line.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Realist said:


> harsh, where do you see that dish is adding rochester next month to their local lineup... is there an updated list somewhere of soon-to-be-added channels with dates (local and HD)


Rochester was announced during the last Charlie Chat. It is to be made possible by spotbeam A7 on E14. The list of markets to be added was:

Augusta, GA
Rochester, MN
San Angelo, TX
Shreveport, LA
Wichita, KS


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

camo said:


> I just came from Dish. Don't forget to add 5.99 for locals and only the big 4 are in HD, CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX.


Locals are now included with DISH. LIL coverage is being expanded in many markets.


> Not sure what direct charges.


DIRECTV charges $5 each for all.


> If you want to add a hard drive to your account add 39.99 activation fee with Dish. Direct is free.


DIRECTV doesn't allow you to "add" a drive -- you can only replace the internal drive with an externally connected drive. Switching drives demands that you reboot the DVR. If the DVR dies, all content on any drive recorded with the DVR is lost. DISH's external drive is a one-time charge and USB hard drives can be hot-swapped between HD DVRs.

DIRECTV 12 should facilitate adding more markets but some markets may have to shift around before it happens.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

Here's a list of DIRECTV HD channels (current and soon to be added).
*link:* http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/hd/channels

DIRECTV has a slightly better HD picture than DISH. FYI - I've had both services, this is a fact.
DIRECTV has more sports.
DIRECTV will have a TiVo HDDVR shortly.

Bottom line, pick what works for you. For me, DIRECTV is the way to roll.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Hutchinshouse said:


> DIRECTV will have a TiVo HDDVR shortly.


Is "shortly" the new "soon"?

Don't bet on the new DIRECTiVo anytime soon. There's a non-negligible chance that it will never happen.


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

harsh said:


> *Is "shortly" the new "soon"?*
> 
> Don't bet on the new DIRECTiVo anytime soon. There's a non-negligible chance that it will never happen.


Soon shortly will be the new soon. :lol:

As for feasibility, this is straight from TiVo:
http://www.tivo.com/products/source/satellite/tivo-directv/index.html


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Hutchinshouse said:


> As for feasibility, this is straight from TiVo:
> http://www.tivo.com/products/source/satellite/tivo-directv/index.html


That page has been there since the new DIRECTiVo was announced. I signed up early on and have yet to get any news from TiVo.


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## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

you guys have been a lot of help... for some reason the message board stopped sending me notices of new posts after camo's... 

also, during all the reading i did, i thought i read that g4 was in HD somewhere... i don't see it on dish or directs... is that also a coming soon?

Hutchinshouse... thanks for the link... have one for dish as well?


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## jgarveyATL (Jun 1, 2006)

Realist
I have been with Dish since 1997 and am getting ready to switch to DTV, primarily because of the new multi-room features available (record in one room, watch in any other room) plus Direct2PC (allows you to watch programs from DVR on any PC in home). Dish has announced TVeverywhere but hasn't denoted what boxes will provide this service. Also, DTV has a 1/2 off special now and get one HD DVR and one HD box for $99 through 7/14.

Finally, if you can hold out, there is a new HR24 box coming out that provides ultra-fast channel switching and is smaller. That's due out in the next 30-60 days (supposedly mid-May). You can read a review of the HR24 box on the DTV forum on dbstalk.com


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Realist said:


> also, during all the reading i did, i thought i read that g4 was in HD somewhere... i don't see it on dish or directs... is that also a coming soon?


DISH Network added G4 HD one week ago.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

jgarveyATL said:


> Dish has announced TVeverywhere but hasn't denoted what boxes will provide this service.


The ViP922 or any other receiver with a Slingbox will be the source. The Slingbox obviously works with DIRECTV receivers as well. The advantage to the Slingbox solution is that it works with more than just qualified computers on the LAN.

A future Slingbox, the 700U will reportedly plug into the USB port on ViP class DVRs.

http://slingmedia.com/go/slingbox-700u


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## camo (Apr 15, 2010)

On Feb1 Dish pricing structure for additional DVR's beyond the first one jumped to 17 dollars each for the dual receiver.


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## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

jgarveyATL... now that's the kind of info i like... i definitely can wait that long to make the switch (in the next month or 2)... i still have to clean up my dvr before i make the switch

harsh... thanks again... that's a big push toward dish... with the cable service i have now, i have to have the volume twice as loud on my g4 channel... it gets to the point that my TV hums... very annoying

is the ViP922 dish's latest and greatest?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Realist said:


> is the ViP922 dish's latest and greatest?


Yes, but as it supports only one TV, many opt for the ViP722K that is less buggy and supports a second SDTV.


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Realist said:


> i've read so much the past couple days my head hurts and i still dont think i've made my decision... the more i read, the more questions i have (i always want to make the best decision and over research every purchase i make, no matter what it is((took me 6 months to pick out an electric saver :bang))... it's a curse)
> 
> i currently have cable and i'm fed up with em...
> 
> ...


if u like movies go with dish
if u like sports go with directv
also dish has MORE hd channels


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## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

harsh said:


> Yes, but as it supports only one TV, many opt for the ViP722K that is less buggy and supports a second SDTV.


what about the built in slingbox of the 922 though... and has dish set a price for that function yet?

also, do these boxes come with the online deals that sites offer or do you have to specifically ask for them when ordering?
EDIT: i just ran through dish's sign up on their site and i see the 922 is an extra $200... that doesn't sound too bad if i can watch my tv anywhere... would i even need a second receiver if i just hooked up my bedroom tv to my laptop?

do i own the receiver?

america's top 250+DVR and HD channels... the total came to $67.99 a month... is that what my bill would actually say or is it going to be another $15 in hidden BS charges

how likely is dish to renew the first time customer deal after the year is done to get that monthly price again?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Realist said:


> what about the built in slingbox of the 922 though... and has dish set a price for that function yet?


The price is that the Slingloaded feature gets you a Duo DVR monthly fee if it is not the lone receiver.


> do i own the receiver?


Not for $200. Owning doesn't change anything in terms of monthly cost.


> america's top 250+DVR and HD channels... the total came to $67.99 a month... is that what my bill would actually say or is it going to be another $15 in hidden BS charges


There may be taxes (as appropriate to your jurisdiction).


> how likely is dish to renew the first time customer deal after the year is done to get that monthly price again?


Not likely at all. The price will be about $78.99 ($62.99 + 6.00 DVR fee + $10.00 HD fee) if I'm doing my math right. Of course by next year this time the rates will have changed.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Realist said:


> what about the built in slingbox of the 922 though... and has dish set a price for that function yet?


On the first 922 there is no additional monthly cost. If you have two 922s on your account the second one will be charged a lease fee that is higher for a "Slingloaded" 922 than for a regular Duo DVR. If you pony up the dough and buy a 922 outright the fee remains the same ... it just inherits a different name (additional receiver fee).

On a single receiver account there is no lease/receiver fee (a per account DVR fee applies). On multiple receiver accounts the most expensive receiver is free ... if you get a 922 and a 211 you'll pay the $7 for the 211 and zero for the 922. If you have two 922s the first one will be free the second one will incur the monthly charge.

DISH has a wonderful pricing scheme where the more features there are on a receiver the more you pay to lease it. "Slingloaded" costs more than a Duo DVR, a Duo DVR costs more than a Solo DVR, a DVR costs more than a non-DVR. DISH has removed the difference between a SD receiver and a HD receiver price by raising the price on SD receivers to match the HD price. Fortunately the most expensive receiver becomes your one free receiver.

Oh, by "no additional cost" I mean for the receiver (charged as a lease/receiver fee). The per account DVR fee for an account with a DVR is $6 ... for an account with a Slingloaded DVR the DVR fee jumps to $10. So the difference between getting a 722 and a 922 on a single receiver account is $4.


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## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

i finally made the choice and i'm officially a week into my dish with the 250 plan and fee hd for life... i didn't go with the 922 but instead went with the 722 and might decide later to buy a slingbox and at least i'll own it that way... couldn't justify the 200 just to lease a box...

i am curious though about the dvr... with my old mediacom dvr i could come in the house and see that there was 5 minutes left of the news (or whatever show) and i could click record and it would record the whole thing from the begining... is there a way to do that with the 722 i have?

thanks again for all the advice, comments and posts...


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Realist said:


> i am curious though about the dvr... with my old mediacom dvr i could come in the house and see that there was 5 minutes left of the news (or whatever show) and i could click record and it would record the whole thing from the begining... is there a way to do that with the 722 i have?


Only if the 722 was on and already tuned to that channel at the beginning of the program that you wanted to "record from beginning".


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## domingos35 (Jan 12, 2006)

Realist said:


> i finally made the choice and i'm officially a week into my dish with the 250 plan and fee hd for life... i didn't go with the 922 but instead went with the 722 and might decide later to buy a slingbox and at least i'll own it that way... couldn't justify the 200 just to lease a box...
> 
> i am curious though about the dvr... with my old mediacom dvr i could come in the house and see that there was 5 minutes left of the news (or whatever show) and i could click record and it would record the whole thing from the begining... is there a way to do that with the 722 i have?
> 
> thanks again for all the advice, comments and posts...


congrats 
u made the right choice:hurah:


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## Realist (Apr 21, 2010)

is there a way to remove the pause bar at the bottom... cancel doesn't do it... i'd like to pause a scene and take a picture without the pause being in the way... thanks


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

After pausing press the skip forward button. The bar will go away (although a pause marker will appear).


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

I've been a 15 year Directv sub, so I can't help you much. I can say they have been good to me. 

I was disabled a few years back, and get around with a walker. All this is to say that although I have a basement theater room, I spend some hours of the day in bed. I have a computer connected to a 24" monitor on a swing arm on the wall next to my bed.

This makes DIRECTV2PC THE KILLER APP for me! I use a slingbox to set up and delete recordings.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Using Slingbox on any receiver - dish or DTV will allow you get full control of it and support SD/HD connection.


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## peano (Feb 1, 2004)

Realist said:


> is there a way to remove the pause bar at the bottom... cancel doesn't do it... i'd like to pause a scene and take a picture without the pause being in the way... thanks


I press pause and then the FF button and it moves forward at 1/15th speed with no graphics on the screen.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

P Smith said:


> Using Slingbox on any receiver - dish or DTV will allow you get full control of it and support SD/HD connection.


I have tried the slingbox HD. The picture quality is far superior with DIRECTV2PC, as one would expect.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Hard to believe in the statement, seems to me it's grossly overstate.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

ejjames said:


> I have tried the slingbox HD. The picture quality is far superior with DIRECTV2PC, as one would expect.


This is not unexpected. This owes to the fact that the Slingbox digitizes the picture and, where necessary, scales and compresses the stream to make the trip across slower networks and to modest viewing devices.

The Slingbox will always work on any number of devices across a variety of networks where DIRECTV2PC has relatively high intraLAN bandwidth and Wintel computer requirements.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Hard to believe in the statement, seems to me it's grossly overstate.


Nonetheless, it is true.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Any real data ?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Any real data ?


The DIRECTV2PC stream is the unadulterated satellite feed. You don't need numbers as you know as well as anyone that the DVRs that send the stream are incapable of compressing or otherwise altering it.

This fidelity makes DIRECTV2PC useless for low bandwidth (<10Mbps effective) networks.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

There is alteration for sure - encryption, what else I don't know, yet.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> There is alteration for sure - encryption, what else I don't know, yet.


What makes you think that the encryption is altered?

What does encryption have to do with the program data proper?

It is much easier if you think of it in terms of what cannot be done rather than trying to pick away at what could be done.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

I know the chip can convert stream [from sat or HDD] to any format include 480i.


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## ejjames (Oct 3, 2006)

This is silly wasting an argument over this. The DIRECTV2PC image is noticeably better. I'm sure Slingbox engineers would agree.

Slingboxes do many things DTV2PC can't, different products for different uses.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> I know the chip can convert stream [from sat or HDD] to any format include 480i.


The problem with this theory is that the stream for DIRECTV2PC doesn't go through the rendering section where rendering and scaling happen. Those facilities must remain available for the DVR to be used locally.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Same as with your - no definitive knowledge. While I'm in doubts and questioning you are pretend to know all the details.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Same as with your - no definitive knowledge. While I'm in doubts and questioning you are pretend to know all the details.


Look at the block diagram for the BCM chips. It is all there (or it isn't there in this case). Just because you haven't done your due diligence doesn't give you the right to assert that I'm "pretending".

See more in the DIRECTV MRV/WHDS and DIRECTV2PC threads about their bandwidth requirements/usage and limitations.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Did you analyze the stream ? Have you parse MPEG headers ?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

P Smith said:


> Did you analyze the stream ? Have you parse MPEG headers ?


I know that you know that content is encrypted making it impossible to parse.

Again, I suggest that you go about this from the opposite direction and think about what the DVR can't do. It is much easier to get your head around it that way and is every bit as scientific.


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