# MRV and ICK not playing nicely together



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

So here is my setup: I have two HR24s with MRV enabled. They are linked through the built-in DECA module. I then have D*'s ICK going into a router, which in turn passes a signal through the houses wiring to my 2Wire DSL modem. 

The net connection to the receiver has been iffy. TV applications don't initialize, but I can download content. I'm not enough of a network guy to mess with trying to fix that problem. 

A week ago, my upstairs receiver (which is the one closest to the ICK unit) has trouble playing programs on my downstairs receiver. Sometimes it can see them, sometimes it can't. Most of the time when I click on a program, it simply won't play.

Downstairs sees everything upstairs, and has no problem at all.

So, I call D*, and they send out a service guy who tells me that the DECA module on my upstairs DVR is bad, and he replaces it. 

Everything is fine for a few more days, and then the exact same symptoms reappear. 

For completely unrelated issues, I think powered down my DSL modem. Boom! Everything works fine and full functionality is restored to MRV.

In fact, I can not address any problems I have with MRV by powering down the DSL modem.

What's going on? I though MRV and ICK had nothing to do with each other, assuming that MRV is going through DECA.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

MRV is going through DECA for you. One issue that might be happening is the receivers might be losing their lease on their IP address. Most DHCP leases default to 72 hours. Try setting the receivers to use Static DHCP addresses or Static IP addressing.

In the former, you use the router setup and assign IP addresses to the receivers using Reserved DHCP. For the latter, manually enter an IP address into the receiver with an IP address that is outside of your DHCP range.

As for TVApps not working and DoD working, that is not all to uncommon. Many people have issues with getting TVApps to work correctly.

- Merg


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> MRV is going through DECA for you. One issue that might be happening is the receivers might be losing their lease on their IP address. Most DHCP leases default to 72 hours. Try setting the receivers to use Static DHCP addresses or Static IP addressing.
> 
> In the former, you use the router setup and assign IP addresses to the receivers using Reserved DHCP. For the latter, manually enter an IP address into the receiver with an IP address that is outside of your DHCP range.
> 
> ...


The 2Wire default is 24 hours for the lease and can be changed up to 999 hours.
For TVApps to work [for me] the receiver needs to show <202> for the network services status.
While I've had the ICK on my 2Wire for a year without any problems, lately I'm having similar issues with my HR24-500 and not on my HR20s. I expect there will be a software improvement coming, but currently I'm either running the test network connection or rebooting the receiver daily and changed my lease times to 48 hours [which didn't change anything].


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

veryoldschool - does it make sense to you that all this could have implications for MRV? I called D* tech support this morning, and there position is that DECA and ICK are unrelated issues. So, they could not explain why the functioning of my DSL would impact on MRV.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

E91 said:


> veryoldschool - does it make sense to you that all this could have implications for MRV? I called D* tech support this morning, and there position is that DECA and ICK are unrelated issues. So, they could not explain why the functioning of my DSL would impact on MRV.


"Make sense"?, well since I'm having similar issues, yes, but "the why" isn't clear, though it does seem to be related to MRV only for me.
Now one thing you could try is to disconnect the ICK [from your router] for the time being and reboot all the receivers so they change to their internal IP addresses. MRV should then work without these issues.
As I posted my 2Wire has worked fine for a long time with the ICK, but only in the past couple of weeks have I been having similar problems on a daily basis. Rebooting the HR24 and/or running the system test [which takes much less time] can restore the MRV functions.
I know DirecTV is looking into the 2Wire interaction and will come out with a fix.


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> "Make sense"?, well since I'm having similar issues, yes, but "the why" isn't clear, though it does seem to be related to MRV only for me.
> Now one thing you could try is to disconnect the ICK [from your router] for the time being and reboot all the receivers so they change to their internal IP addresses. MRV should then work without these issues.
> As I posted my 2Wire has worked fine for a long time with the ICK, but only in the past couple of weeks have I been having similar problems on a daily basis. Rebooting the HR24 and/or running the system test [which takes much less time] can restore the MRV functions.
> I know DirecTV is looking into the 2Wire interaction and will come out with a fix.


Thanks! This is soooooo helpful.

I must say I have been soundly unimpressed with D*'s tech support over this issue. I get nothing from them but offers to replace the receiver, and advice to do a reset.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

E91 said:


> veryoldschool - does it make sense to you that all this could have implications for MRV? I called D* tech support this morning, and there position is that DECA and ICK are unrelated issues. So, they could not explain why the functioning of my DSL would impact on MRV.


Yes, DECA and ICK can cause unrelated issues, however, if you are using DHCP to assign IP addresses to the receivers via your router, the ICK can come into play. Especially, if the router or the receiver drop the lease of the IP address. When that happens, one receiver cannot see the other even though they are using DECA to communicate.

- Merg


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

The Merg said:


> Yes, DECA and ICK can cause unrelated issues, however, if you are using DHCP to assign IP addresses to the receivers via your router, the ICK can come into play. Especially, if the router or the receiver drop the lease of the IP address. When that happens, one receiver cannot see the other even though they are using DECA to communicate.
> 
> - Merg


Thanks, Merg!

I am very unsophisticated when it comes to networking.

I have looked at my network setup though. Each of the HR24s says "Connected DHCP"

The address says "Private Fixed"


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

E91 said:


> Thanks, Merg!
> 
> I am very unsophisticated when it comes to networking.
> 
> ...


Where are you seeing that info? Is that on the router itself?

On the HR24's, go to Setup / More Info and then scroll down to the Network settings. What is the IP address, Gateway, and DNS on each receiver.

- Merg


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

The Merg said:


> Where are you seeing that info? Is that on the router itself?
> 
> On the HR24's, go to Setup / More Info and then scroll down to the Network settings. What is the IP address, Gateway, and DNS on each receiver.
> 
> - Merg


Yes, I got that info from the router.

Here is what I got off the HR24 that was giving my problems:

IP Address: 192.168.1.81
Subnet: 255.255.0 
Default: 192.168.1.254
DNS: 192.161.1.254
STB: N/A (202)

Thanks so much for your help, Merg. You've been ridiculously helpful.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Is that HR24 giving you problems right now?

If so, give this a try. On the router, check to see what the DHCP range is set for. It will either show you the beginning and end IP addresses or it will show you a starting IP address and then the number of DHCP clients allowed. Figure out an IP address just outside that range.

For example, if the range is from 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.100, then you can try 192.168.1.110. Go onto the receiver and go to Setup / Network Setup / Advanced. Enter in the IP address that you are going to use. The other settings should remain the same. Test the connection and see if the issue goes away. You would probably be best in setting the IP address on all of your receivers if you decide to go that route. Just make sure that each receiver has a different IP address.

This will take DHCP leasing out of the equation as a possible cause.

- Merg


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Is that HR24 giving you problems right now?
> 
> If so, give this a try. On the router, check to see what the DHCP range is set for. It will either show you the beginning and end IP addresses or it will show you a starting IP address and then the number of DHCP clients allowed. Figure out an IP address just outside that range.
> 
> ...


What's in the 2Wire:


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

I hope I did this right, but I've printed off what I have on my 2wire.


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

The Merg said:


> Is that HR24 giving you problems right now?
> 
> If so, give this a try. On the router, check to see what the DHCP range is set for. It will either show you the beginning and end IP addresses or it will show you a starting IP address and then the number of DHCP clients allowed. Figure out an IP address just outside that range.
> 
> ...


Right at the present moment, it is fine. I reset both receivers as per the discussion above and then tried to go to a fixed IP address (as if I knew what that meant).


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Okay, your DHCP range starts at 192.168.1.64 and goes to the end of that range.

Set each of your receivers with a static IP address in the 192.168.1.50 range or so via the Network setup on the receiver. Perform the Network Test to verify they are connecting to the Internet. See if you start to have issues then. If you don't, then the issue was with the DHCP leases.

- Merg


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

The Merg said:


> Okay, your DHCP range starts at 192.168.1.64 and goes to the end of that range.
> 
> Set each of your receivers with a static IP address in the 192.168.1.50 range or so via the Network setup on the receiver. Perform the Network Test to verify they are connecting to the Internet. See if you start to have issues then. If you don't, then the issue was with the DHCP leases.
> 
> - Merg


I went ahead and did this, but there is no change in performance. Both receivers are connecting fine, and both are doing OK with regard to MRV. But, when I test network, it gives me an error statement saying there are connection problems.

Anyway, let's see how things go in day-to-day operation.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

You shouldn't see any increase/decrease in performance of MRV doing this. This should, hopefully, keep the receivers from dropping off though every other day.

What exactly are the error messages you are getting when you run the Network Test? Also, what error messages do you get when you run the System Test?

- Merg


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

The Merg said:


> You shouldn't see any increase/decrease in performance of MRV doing this. This should, hopefully, keep the receivers from dropping off though every other day.
> 
> What exactly are the error messages you are getting when you run the Network Test? Also, what error messages do you get when you run the System Test?
> 
> - Merg


Systems test gives me "Network Playback Error: 79-026"

I'm not seeing any problems though. The receivers are no longer dropping out and MRV seems to be functioning fine.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

E91 said:


> Systems test gives me "Network Playback Error: 79-026"





> Indicates that the network connection has dropped multiple MRV sessions over the past 5 days.





> Check for loose/bad connectors that may be causing intermitent problems with the signal. Verify all hardware have green labels indicating that they are SWM/MRV compliant.


I had this last night. It degraded further today, until I rebooted everything.

Another thing you may want to look at is the coax networking from the front panel of the 24, press the guide & > buttons and select coax network. This will bring up a test screen with the losses between the DECAs. There is a second screen/test that will show the bit-rates.

These may be fine, but it's worth posting them here to verify them.


----------



## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

E91 said:


> I went ahead and did this, but there is no change in performance. Both receivers are connecting fine, and both are doing OK with regard to MRV. But, when I test network, it gives me an error statement saying there are connection problems.
> 
> Anyway, let's see how things go in day-to-day operation.


When you request a static IP, the more info tab should show x.x.x.x (static), where x is your receiver's IP. Do you see this confirmation?

Also, did you check your router after setting static IPs to see if the router removed the DHCP address? You may have to remove it manually from the router using the "edit address allocation" tab from your pic? Then, either re-testing connection on the receiver or menu restart will hopefully clear the error. Not sure but that might help if the DHCP server is confusing the receivers.


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> I had this last night. It degraded further today, until I rebooted everything.
> 
> Another thing you may want to look at is the coax networking from the front panel of the 24, press the guide & > buttons and select coax network. This will bring up a test screen with the losses between the DECAs. There is a second screen/test that will show the bit-rates.
> 
> These may be fine, but it's worth posting them here to verify them.


What are the & > buttons?


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

E91 said:


> What are the & > buttons?


Press the *Guide* button and the right arrow button on the front of the DVR at the same time.

- Merg


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Another little "tidbit" is that when receivers lose connection [gets interrupted] it can leave the receivers in a strange network state. I just had to go to each receiver and either reboot it or run the network test [or both depending on the order of which receiver had what done to it] to clear out some glitches. We've seen this before in the early days of MRV, when the network hangs and leaves a receiver hung up.


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

Looks like this:

0 Upstairs: N/A
1 Node001xxxx: 25
2: Downstairs: 25 

Dropped Sessions: 3


----------



## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

E91 said:


> Looks like this:
> 
> 0 Upstairs: N/A
> 1 Node001xxxx: 25
> ...


With exception of the dropped sessions; those values are good. It will take time to clear the dropped sessions to zero if the problem is resolved.

You still need to run the bit-rate test. Click the Phy rate mesh tab.; return values s/b GT 215 but I'd suspect higher (max is about 253).


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks, Armchair! 

You guys rock.


----------



## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

You can also run coax diagnostics on the other HR24 to determine the node loss of the node that returned the N/A value of the HR24 from your first test.


----------



## d26k (Aug 3, 2010)

I was having intermittent problems until I did what I should have done lone ago, get the modem and router on different IP ranges.

Using ATT DSL
Att modem is 192.168.0.1
Router is 192.168.1.1
NOTE: The third number needs to be different...

If need be, when I get home I can lay out my entire setup...

IIRC the router is handling DHCP, with the exception of a couple of wireless items (printers, DSi) which I gave static IP's to, outside the DHCP range.

The likely culprit for me was the modem and router fighting for certain chores. As I remember it, by changing the third number they became separate networks (so to speak) and no longer have any conflict issues.

I found the clues by searching for information on using a DSL modem with a second router. I did not want to use bridged mode since I would like to be able to plug computer directly into modem if need be, so the different IP ranges was the easiest option.


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

Yeah, the above posters basically got me doing something similar. I have the HR24s on Static IPs that are outside the 2Wire's DHCP range. Things seem to be working better now, but we'll see how it goes over the next few days.

Interestingly, D*'s position is that ICK and DECA are completely unrelated.

In any case, I got more information from one afternoon at this site then I have gotten after days of call D*.


----------



## d26k (Aug 3, 2010)

My conclusion is it is not a D issue at all.

Modem, Router, Deca - getting two of the three to play nice is easy. Adding a third playmate (or more) is the problem.

We read here Deca creates a separate "cloud" for MRV. I will go with that term for (I hope) clarity.

In your setup (and mine at present):
Modem needs to connect to internet.
Router needs to connect to modem and create and manage "cloud" for local internet usage (computers, receivers, etc.)
Deca creates and manages "cloud" for MRV, and can connect to router for VOD.

The missing piece was to make sure modem and router were not sharing the same "cloud"... they should not share the first three parts of their IP address. It avoids conflicts with data transfer (speed) and "addressing" (if DHCP is not perfectly handled).


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

What you are saying makes sense, but that is no what D* will say if you call to describe MRV problems. Their position is that the internet connection and DECA are unrelated.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

E91 said:


> What you are saying makes sense, but that is no what D* will say if you call to describe MRV problems. Their position is that the internet connection and DECA are unrelated.


And technically, DirecTV is correct. The DECA Cloud is independent of the rest of your network in the sense of how MRV works, however, the IP address the receivers receive comes from your router and allows you access to the rest of your network and the Internet.

So while, the receivers might depend on the ICK and your router for the IP address if you want access to the Internet, DECA (and MRV) itself don't need the router as the receiver can assign it's own IP address if the ICK is not connected. In that sense, DECA maintains itself.

- Merg


----------



## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

d26k said:


> My conclusion is it is not a D issue at all.
> 
> Modem, Router, Deca - getting two of the three to play nice is easy. Adding a third playmate (or more) is the problem.
> 
> ...


d26k -

Just to let you know, it seems what you are calling a Modem in your setup is actually a Modem/Router combination. You may already know that, but just wanted to state it for clarity of others that may review this thread. (It is possible to have a modem without a router built in.)

The problem in your setup was with the router part of the modem/router. Having more than 1 router in your home network can be problematic if you don't know what you are doing. (As you have found out.) Creating different subnets as you have done (changing the 3rd position of the IP address) is a good solution.

Those that don't have a router built into the modem, or otherwise have more than one router, shouldn't have your problem.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

DogLover said:


> d26k -
> 
> Just to let you know, it seems what you are calling a Modem in your setup is actually a Modem/Router combination. You may already know that, but just wanted to state it for clarity of others that may review this thread. (It is possible to have a modem without a router built in.)
> 
> ...


Thanks DogLover. I was wondering if that what the issue was there as I couldn't think of how a modem was getting it's own IP address on the local network. And then even if it was a modem/router, I still couldn't think how that was working. A second router... Aaahhhh....  I need to get more sleep.

- Merg


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

DogLover said:


> d26k -
> 
> Just to let you know, it seems what you are calling a Modem in your setup is actually a Modem/Router combination. You may already know that, but just wanted to state it for clarity of others that may review this thread. (It is possible to have a modem without a router built in.)
> 
> ...


My setup actually has two routers, which is probably part of the problem. I have a DSL Modem/Router in my home officer that passes signal through my home's internal wiring. It hits a router upstairs in the entertainment center. There, I have signal going to my TV, Roku box, PS3, and HR24.

So, Merg's comments above make good sense to me.


----------



## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

E91 said:


> My setup actually has two routers, which is probably part of the problem. I have a DSL Modem/Router in my home officer that passes signal through my home's internal wiring. It hits a router upstairs in the entertainment center. There, I have signal going to my TV, Roku box, PS3, and HR24.
> 
> So, Merg's comments above make good sense to me.


OK. That will be a complicated setup then, especially if both of them are set up to give out DHCP addresses. Setting up separate subnets is a not for the networking faint of heart.


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

E91 said:


> My setup actually has two routers, which is probably part of the problem. I have a DSL Modem/Router in my home officer that passes signal through my home's internal wiring. It hits a router upstairs in the entertainment center. There, I have signal going to my TV, Roku box, PS3, and HR24.
> 
> So, Merg's comments above make good sense to me.


Life would be sooooo much easier if you simply used a switch upstairs.


----------



## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> Life would be sooooo much easier if you simply used a switch upstairs.


That's what I was thinking.

Another option w/b to use the router upstairs as a switch. Turn off DHCP server and use LAN ports only. Some routers will allow the WAN to be re-assigned as a LAN port.


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Yup. Make sure only one of the routers is being used as a DHCP server. That will usually resolve most issues.

- Merg


----------



## d26k (Aug 3, 2010)

ATT's calls them DSL modems for the non-wireless, or Wireless Gateway for their wireless box.

Good point about writing for prosperity...

Whether we like it or not, anyone with more than a direct connection eventually becomes their own network admin!


----------



## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

d26k said:


> ATT's calls them DSL modems for the non-wireless, or Wireless Gateway for their wireless box.
> 
> Good point about writing for prosperity...
> 
> Whether we like it or not, anyone with more than a direct connection eventually becomes their own network admin!


Actually what I got from AT&T was a modem and had to use my own router to connect to it. Then I got their 2Wire wireless router [which has the modem internal].


----------



## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

armchair said:


> That's what I was thinking.
> 
> Another option w/b to either use the router upstairs as a switch. Turn off DHCP server and use LAN ports only. Some routers will allow the WAN to be used as a LAN port.


Well, we will see what happens with everything I did today. If I continue to have problems, I'll move to a simpler setup.


----------

