# 103(a) vs. 103(b) Signal Strengths



## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

The three transponders I receive on 103(a) have signal strengths of 95+, while all transponders on 103(b) are in the mid 70's, with the exception of 17, which is apparently a spotbeam, and has a reading around 90. What would account for these differences in readings from satellites so close to each other? Is it spotbeam vs. CONUS?


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## gully_foyle (Jan 18, 2007)

oakwcj said:


> The three transponders I receive on 103(a) have signal strengths of 95+, while all transponders on 103(b) are in the mid 70's, with the exception of 17, which is apparently a spotbeam, and has a reading around 90. What would account for these differences in readings from satellites so close to each other? Is it spotbeam vs. CONUS?


I see similar signals here to the south, with 103(b) at 77-82 and 103(a) at 95-97.
*
Now, they are still trying to shake out the bugs in the satellite (almost literally) and moving it around a bit, so I'm not going to worry about it unless I can't get the new channels.*


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Elevation is off a little maybe. Or maybe tilt?


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## JDubbs413 (Sep 4, 2007)

kcmurphy88 said:


> I see similar signals here to the south, with 103(b) at 77-82 and 103(a) at 95-97.
> 
> Now, they are still trying to shake out the bugs in the satellite (almost literally) and moving it around a bit, so I'm not going to worry about it unless I can't get the new channels.


I am the same way although I am getting decent readings. Those are test signals we are recieving right now. When the satellite goes live, I expect almost all the numbers to improve.


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

99-100 on 103a
79-85 on 103b


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## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

Well I received my HR20 and new dish today. Almost everything is working great. 103A is only getting in the 50's and 103b is getting strengths of 10 - 25  Looks like
I need to call Directv and get the installer back out! They better not hassle me.


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## Gmaxx (Sep 25, 2006)

50's to 70's on 103a

70's to low 80's on 103b

I'm about 40 miles north of Boston.

All the other sats are in the mid ninety's, no transponders below 90. Is it possible to have D* come out to peak just the 103 sat if the reception sucks? I already get enough rain fade with my mid 90's channels. I can't imagine how much I'll get with the ones in the 50 to 70 range. I know they are just tweaking the sats so I'm not that worried. I was just wondering if it stays the same when they are done, if they can peak the dish without ruining my other sats that are in the mid 90's. I have the protection plan so it wouldn't cost me anything.


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## alaskahill (Jul 15, 2007)

Gmaxx said:


> 50's to 70's on 103a
> 
> 70's to low 80's on 103b
> 
> I'm about 40 miles north of Boston.


You seem to be the only person that I have noticed in the forums who has higher readings on b than a. On b for me they are between the high sixties to mid 80s where as the one transponder I get on a is 90 to 91.

So somewhere between a 10 to 20 point gap drop from a to b for me.


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## CKeim (Jan 24, 2005)

oakwcj said:


> The three transponders I receive on 103(a) have signal strengths of 95+, while all transponders on 103(b) are in the mid 70's, with the exception of 17, which is apparently a spotbeam, and has a reading around 90.


I'm in almost the same boat. In SoCal, I'm getting 95,94,94 on my 103(a) spots and then 60-70 on almost all 103(b) transponders, and nothing above 72.

I stepped through a full realignment this afternoon, and couldn't get them peaked any higher. My signal on 103(b) tp11 is about 70, and when it was firing earlier in the week, it was 73-75.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

oakwcj said:


> The three transponders I receive on 103(a) have signal strengths of 95+, while all transponders on 103(b) are in the mid 70's, with the exception of 17, which is apparently a spotbeam, and has a reading around 90. What would account for these differences in readings from satellites so close to each other? Is it spotbeam vs. CONUS?


I posted this earlier in another thread, and nobody commented. I have no idea whether it makes any sense or not, but please feel free to comment, although these two satellites are really pretty close together:


K4SMX said:


> I notice there are more than a couple of folks who've posted 103(b) numbers over the last few days in the 70's, while their 103(a) numbers are in the 90's. I might have this backwards, but a possible explanation for this might be that their dishes are mis-aligned a smidgen too far to the right, such that they are slightly west of 103(a), which itself is already west of 103(b). Have I got that right? I got up late today!


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

CKeim. Little north from you, there are 103(b) numbers: http://dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1120739&postcount=76
103(a): 0 98 0 97 0 98


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## CKeim (Jan 24, 2005)

Yeah, I've seen that others are getting good numbers in my area, so I know it's my setup. I'm just trying to figure out why my 103(a) signals are so strong in comparison. I thought I'd be good to go.


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## rmarcoo (Jun 9, 2007)

I live in the midwest and am getting all 0 signal strength on 103(b). Channel 499 gives me the "Searching for Satellite Signal" as it should but shouldn't I be getting some readings on 103(b)? Any help would be appreciated.

TIA,
Randy


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I'd say it again... don't worry until the satellite goes live.


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## rmarcoo (Jun 9, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'd say it again... don't worry until the satellite goes live.


OK, if you say so  But it's not easy you know


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## bluemoon737 (Feb 21, 2007)

alaskahill said:


> You seem to be the only person that I have noticed in the forums who has higher readings on b than a. On b for me they are between the high sixties to mid 80s where as the one transponder I get on a is 90 to 91.
> 
> So somewhere between a 10 to 20 point gap drop from a to b for me.


I think it really all depends on where you get your locals from. I can get one TP on 103a in the low 90's but I'm in local HD no-man's land of Norfolk/Virginia Beach so we don't have a spot beam pointing directly toward our area. My readings on 103b are all in the mid to high 90's. I think spots beams aimed at your area are more "forgiving" of giving higher readings.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'd say it again... don't worry until the satellite goes live.


Well there's no question that if you're thinking of calling D* to schedule a service call because your 103(b) signals are low, they're gonna tell you those exact words. If you originally did your own install, however, you're going to be itchin' to get fixin', if things aren't perfect or at least in the 80's. There also appear to be quite a few reported recent HD upgrade installs that were on the edge on 103(a) to begin with and are now probably going to be unacceptable.


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## alaskahill (Jul 15, 2007)

bluemoon737 said:


> I think it really all depends on where you get your locals from. I can get one TP on 103a in the low 90's but I'm in local HD no-man's land of Norfolk/Virginia Beach so we don't have a spot beam pointing directly toward our area. My readings on 103b are all in the mid to high 90's. I think spots beams aimed at your area are more "forgiving" of giving higher readings.


Gotcha thx... However, the Norfolk VA beach area sure is a pretty no man's land


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## tiggerbo (Jun 29, 2006)

I Have The Same Thing. Tuner # 2 Shows Very Little . Most Are 0. Two Are At 55. Tuner # 1 Gives Me High Numbers On 103b. Should They Both Be The Same?


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## Tibs (Jul 6, 2007)

101

87 94 83 53 85 94 81 92
80 95 82 39 82 94 81 95
79 98 81 46 82 94 83 94
81 88 81 95 82 92 79 95

110

76
85 80

119

00 00 00 00 00 95 24 96
98 96 96 95 91 95 0 96

99b

00 34 15 00 00 26

103a

21 00 22 00 17 00
00

103b

00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 
00 00

Given these numbers I suspect I've got an allignment issue - I'll be glad to to adjust it - but before I go up and waste my evening playing - am I right? Is this allignment likely? I dont have a meter - so either I'm going to just make things worse without one or I'll have to pay for that jackleg to do what he should have done the first time a year ago.


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## drx792 (Feb 28, 2007)

alaskahill said:


> You seem to be the only person that I have noticed in the forums who has higher readings on b than a. On b for me they are between the high sixties to mid 80s where as the one transponder I get on a is 90 to 91.
> 
> So somewhere between a 10 to 20 point gap drop from a to b for me.


hmm my b is slightly higher than a

103a 92-98

103b 95-100

One thing though, TP1-3 on 103b are 0's is this right??


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## PoitNarf (Aug 19, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'd say it again... don't worry until the satellite goes live.


+infinity


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## Bayou-7 (Apr 4, 2007)

alaskahill said:


> You seem to be the only person that I have noticed in the forums who has higher readings on b than a. On b for me they are between the high sixties to mid 80s where as the one transponder I get on a is 90 to 91.
> 
> So somewhere between a 10 to 20 point gap drop from a to b for me.


 I also have this situation; I'm about 20 miles north of New Orleans. 103a SS is 67-70 ( on transponders 1 and 5) while current 103b readings vary from 83-91, depending on transponder. Is that an indicatioin that I would benefit from an allignment tweak?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Tibs said:


> 101
> 
> 87 94 83 53 85 94 81 92
> 80 95 82 39 82 94 81 95
> ...


You have two issues, I'm guessing. From the 99° and 103°(a) numbers you have an alignment issue and aren't even close. Depending on how handy you are, I'd either watch the installation videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp and follow them very closely, or call DIRECTV to fix the problems. It can be done with any DIRECTV receiver signal meter tuned to 101° and a TV at the dish or a good meter.

Since you 103°(b) are flatlined I'm thinking you either don't have BBC(s) on your tuner(s) or the wrong multiswitch installed. If the BBC(s) are installed corretly (pigtail screwed into the receiver), check to make sure you have a Zinwell WB68 switch. (You would know if you had anything else that was certified for the new satellites, they are expensive switches.)

Good luck,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Bayou-7 said:


> I also have this situation; I'm about 20 miles north of New Orleans. 103a SS is 67-70 ( on transponders 1 and 5) while current 103b readings vary from 83-91, depending on transponder. Is that an indicatioin that I would benefit from an allignment tweak?


You are in that area I would suggest thinking about an alignment. If you're handy and can follow the installation videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp, have a TV that you can see from the dish, I'd say give it a try if you want. Patience and taking care are the keys. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Bayou-7 said:


> I also have this situation; I'm about 20 miles north of New Orleans. 103a SS is 67-70 ( on transponders 1 and 5) while current 103b readings vary from 83-91, depending on transponder. Is that an indicatioin that I would benefit from an allignment tweak?


Yes you should benefit slightly considering the intensity of the rainfaill we get around here. I'm due east of you and haven't seen anything below the mid 90s here.


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## Ext 721 (Feb 26, 2007)

101 txp: 1: 96 2:95 31:95 32:100
110 txp (8,10,12) 89,91,86
119 txp: 26: 100 27: 100
99b: 2 txp show @ 100
103a: strongest txp=94
103b: (1-14) 92,73,81,86,86,85,83,86,86,66,83 17=95 22=95


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Bayou-7 said:


> I also have this situation; I'm about 20 miles north of New Orleans. 103a SS is 67-70 ( on transponders 1 and 5) while current 103b readings vary from 83-91, depending on transponder. Is that an indicatioin that I would benefit from an allignment tweak?


I'd suspect that you would benefit from having your dish allignment tweaked. I tweaked mine on my own and improved the signal on 103(a).

My readings on 103(a) are lower than 103(b). The New Orleans locals are on 103(a).

103(a): tp01-06 = 84 17 00 31 87 26
103(a): tp17 = 0

103(b): tp01-08 = 00 00 00 98 88 95 92 96
103(b): tp09-14 = 92 95 92 96 92 96
103(b): tp17 & 22 = 99 & 99


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## jeffman (Sep 9, 2007)

CKeim said:


> I'm in almost the same boat. In SoCal, I'm getting 95,94,94 on my 103(a) spots and then 60-70 on almost all 103(b) transponders, and nothing above 72.
> 
> I stepped through a full realignment this afternoon, and couldn't get them peaked any higher. My signal on 103(b) tp11 is about 70, and when it was firing earlier in the week, it was 73-75.


+1
Same here in socal. No worries, though.


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## StanO (Sep 13, 2007)

I am not getting anything on 103(a). 103(b) is 76-87. I am in Louisville. Is this right?


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

103b is a tad low and not getting anything on 103a is nothing to be concerned about if you're outside of any of the spotbeam footprints on it.


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## PR Buick (Oct 12, 2006)

If I decide to tweek my alignment (most likely after the channels turn on, just to be sure), is it best to pick out the lowest tp signal on 101 or leave it on the screen that shows all of them?


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Don't tweak it to 101. Tweak it to 103b. (and 99 if you get a fairly strong signal from it)


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## ChrisPC (Jun 17, 2003)

PR Buick said:


> If I decide to tweek my alignment (most likely after the channels turn on, just to be sure), is it best to pick out the lowest tp signal on 101 or leave it on the screen that shows all of them?


Leave it on one TP, because only that will update by itself. The other screen only updates when you hit the button.


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## LDLemu4U (Oct 16, 2006)

Am from Blaine, WA.

103b has always been in the high 90s. However, 103a is all 0 ZERO! Is that a spot beam.?


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> I see similar signals here to the south, with 103(b) at 77-82 and 103(a) at 95-97.
> 
> Now, they are still trying to shake out the bugs in the satellite (almost literally) and moving it around a bit, so I'm not going to worry about it unless I can't get the new channels.


+1 in Sacramento, CA

Exact same result as you.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Racer88 said:


> Don't tweak it to 101. Tweak it to 103b. (and 99 if you get a fairly strong signal from it)


Please don't. Please follow the instruction videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp and peak off 101° using the techniques described. That will give you the best signals for all the satellites.

Cheers,
Tom


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## PR Buick (Oct 12, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Please don't. Please follow the instruction videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp and peak off 101° using the techniques described. That will give you the best signals for all the satellites.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I'm still not sure about the best way to measure the signal--the videos only show the procedure using a hand-held meter. If I have to use my TV and receiver, do I tune to the lowest tp or view all of them at once?

Thanks!

(Have a feeling I'll probably end up needing to do this, since my 103b readings have consistently been in the 20's/30's. Hopefully this could change on its own, but I don't think so...)


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

This is all very interesting, I'm sure, but I haven't seen a single post responding to my original question concerning the apparent discrepancy in signal strengths between two satellites so close together. The idea about elevation doesn't seem too likely to me since all geostationary satellites are in a circular orbit of 35,785 km from earth. I didn't say anything about being concerned about the readings or wanting to adjust my dish. I was -- and still am -- curious about what might account for the apparently common differences in readings between the two satellites, although many are getting signal strengths in the 90's on the 103(b).


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## Stevies3 (Jul 22, 2004)

Long Island, NY

103 b 86-96

103 a 81-98


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## Racer88 (Sep 13, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Please don't. Please follow the instruction videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp and peak off 101° using the techniques described. That will give you the best signals for all the satellites.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


:nono2: Obviously it doesn't given the rash of bad readings on 103 that are popping up from installs that have been done this very way and since until now that is the ONLY way you could do it given the lack of signal availabity from 103 and 99. That is main reason for that lame arse dithering process in the first place.

You've got a signal now so use IT to FINE TUNE a already close but not completely perfect installation. Going through that whole dithering process again is not only confusing as hell but will most likely lead to it being even worse than it was before.

To fine tune an existing installation using the readings directly from 103 (and 99 if you actually get your locals from it) is the ONLY way to go and should take only a few minutes. You go up, set both your dials to 0, break loose one or the other of the az and el lockdown bolts and move whichever you start with ONE increment in ONE direction on the scale. Check your signal, if it improves then move ONE more increment in the same direction, if not then move back past zero to the next increment on the other side of zero. Once you find the peak on that axis by moving the adjustment ONE increment at a time on the scale, and checking your signal strength after every move, then you do the same on the other axis. Job complete.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

kcmurphy88 said:


> I see similar signals here to the south, with 103(b) at 77-82 and 103(a) at 95-97.
> 
> Now, they are still trying to shake out the bugs in the satellite (almost literally) and moving it around a bit, so I'm not going to worry about it unless I can't get the new channels.


I'm in Los Angeles and I was testing a theory earilier today since so many were complaining about levels here in So Cal... Humor me.

I have a AT9 Sidecar Dish my readings for 103(a) 98 83 00 96 97 85

103(b) all tps low 80 to low 90s

We installed a AU9 Slimline dish this afternoon and peaked both dishes, the AT9 dish pretty much was peaked, no differences. The AU9 dish is manufactured by CALAMP, or something like that, after peaking: 103 (a) 97 82 00 97 95 85

103 (b) 00 00 00 78 75 77 76 76 80 78 77 77 82 82 NA NA 83 then 83 for TP2

Between the 2 we are getting a loss of 7-8% per transponder, same lines & hardware after the dish, same HR20. We triplechecked everything on the AU9, tried to get better readings but couldn't get any tp over 83/84.

My buddy who I installed the AU9 with is a supervisor for one of the install companies down here in L.A. county. He explained to me that there are several manufacturers of the Slimline dish and he sees different levels between them.

I'm leaving the AU9 connected for now. After D10 lights up on Wednesday we are going to re-examine the numbers and maybe swap out another company's slimline to see the levels.


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

That's interesting. Mine is a CALAMP also. I had an AT-9 until about a week ago, but had it replaced because of a bad LNB assembly. My installer said that all of his co-workers hated the design of the AT-9 and he suspected that the problem was a short in the black wires running between the main LNB and the sidecar. I suspect that many more subscribers have the Slimline by now, since the AT-9 went out of production pretty quickly.


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## CKeim (Jan 24, 2005)

Yes, very interesting.

I also have a CalAmp. As oakwcj posted, it still doesn't explain why our 103(a) numbers are so high, unless the spotbeam is just that strong here on the coast(?).


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## hadji (Sep 30, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> Please don't. Please follow the instruction videos: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp and peak off 101° using the techniques described. That will give you the best signals for all the satellites.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


My 101 numbers are excellent with the low being 96 and a handful of 100's, but my 103a are mid to low and the 103b range from 72-95. I spent a while tweaking earlier and this was the best I could get. What am I missing?


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## gulfwarvet (Mar 7, 2007)

hadji said:


> My 101 numbers are excellent with the low being 96 and a handful of 100's, but my 103a are mid to low and the 103b range from 72-95. I spent a while tweaking earlier and this was the best I could get. What am I missing?


what's your 119 readings? you have to peak 119 (by adjusting the skew) and 101 with the dials)


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

CKeim said:


> Yes, very interesting.
> 
> I also have a CalAmp. As oakwcj posted, it still doesn't explain why our 103(a) numbers are so high, unless the spotbeam is just that strong here on the coast(?).


The numbers we see for 103(a) are a spotbeam pointed right smack dab on us. That's why they are so high.

Sidenote: another user in San Diego has a WHC slimline or something that sounds like it, that has 80-90s on his dish... want that slimline to test.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Racer88 said:


> :nono2: Obviously it doesn't given the rash of bad readings on 103 that are popping up from installs that have been done this very way and since until now that is the ONLY way you could do it given the lack of signal availabity from 103 and 99. That is main reason for that lame arse dithering process in the first place.
> 
> You've got a signal now so use IT to FINE TUNE a already close but not completely perfect installation. Going through that whole dithering process again is not only confusing as hell but will most likely lead to it being even worse than it was before.
> 
> To fine tune an existing installation using the readings directly from 103 (and 99 if you actually get your locals from it) is the ONLY way to go and should take only a few minutes. You go up, set both your dials to 0, break loose one or the other of the az and el lockdown bolts and move whichever you start with ONE increment in ONE direction on the scale. Check your signal, if it improves then move ONE more increment in the same direction, if not then move back past zero to the next increment on the other side of zero. Once you find the peak on that axis by moving the adjustment ONE increment at a time on the scale, and checking your signal strength after every move, then you do the same on the other axis. Job complete.


What is obvious is that many dishes were not aligned properly. And we've seen tons and tons of anecdotes of installers NOT following the instructions. So how is it you're ready to toss the correct procedure out the window based on all that anecdotal evidence? 

While I my first inclination is to agree that peaking off 103/99 would be a good way to go these days, I've been PMed by a great contributer that there was a demonstration given to installers that such is not the way to go. Obviously, I haven't seen the demonstration nor read the detailed analysis; but I trust my source.

Remember, our goal is best picture across all 5 orbital slots. Properly using the DIRECTV procedure will get that. So I continue to recommend that at this time.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

oakwcj said:


> The three transponders I receive on 103(a) have signal strengths of 95+, while all transponders on 103(b) are in the mid 70's, with the exception of 17, which is apparently a spotbeam, and has a reading around 90. What would account for these differences in readings from satellites so close to each other? Is it spotbeam vs. CONUS?


Couple of things going on, I suspect. First and foremost is your suggestion that it is spotbeam vs. national.

Secondly is the tremendous flexibility of Spaceway 1/2. They can adjust the power to a spotbeam like no other satellite can, AFAIK.

Thirdly might be the slight difference in location. Ka is a very narrow I'm not sure if that is enough or not to show up in our tests, but something to consider.

Lastly, we're still in test mode. Anything goes at this stage. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

While we're being anecdotal, my installer, who is a supervisor for a fairly wide swath of California, told me that Connect Television, the big contractor here, was very worried about the number of service calls they might get once D10 goes live. He said that they had hired a lot of extra people just for that contingency, but that they really had no idea what would happen.

He was also very impressed by my VOD demo. I explained the CE process to him and he wrote down the link to dbstalk. He was entirely unaware of this site's existence and said he was going to make sure that the installers working for him knew about it.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

oakwcj said:


> While we're being anecdotal, my installer, who is a supervisor for a fairly wide swath of California, told me that Connect Television, the big contractor here, was very worried about the number of service calls they might get once D10 goes live. He said that they had hired a lot of extra people just for that contingency, but that they really had no idea what would happen.


Same here in So Cal... From what I heard today they expect a lot of repeat service calls to reallign dishes, connect BBCs and so on. He said a lot of installers, and subcontractors were probably lazy, especially early on, with their installs... Installers can work 6-7 day weeks right now if they want to.


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## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> What is obvious is that many dishes were not aligned properly. And we've seen tons and tons of anecdotes of installers NOT following the instructions. So how is it you're ready to toss the correct procedure out the window based on all that anecdotal evidence?
> 
> While I my first inclination is to agree that peaking off 103/99 would be a good way to go these days, I've been PMed by a great contributer that there was a demonstration given to installers that such is not the way to go. Obviously, I haven't seen the demonstration nor read the detailed analysis; but I trust my source.
> 
> ...


I agree with Tom also, after so many attempts at doing the AU9 alignment the DirecTV way we tried just using 103b to peak. We managed to get some of the 103b Tps higher, but this was at the expense of the levels of 101 and 119. 101 especially was falling off significantlly.


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## Tibs (Jul 6, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> You have two issues, I'm guessing. From the 99° and 103°(a) numbers you have an alignment issue and aren't even close. Depending on how handy you are, I'd either watch the installation videos: and follow them very closely, or call DIRECTV to fix the problems. It can be done with any DIRECTV receiver signal meter tuned to 101° and a TV at the dish or a good meter.
> 
> Since you 103°(b) are flatlined I'm thinking you either don't have BBC(s) on your tuner(s) or the wrong multiswitch installed. If the BBC(s) are installed corretly (pigtail screwed into the receiver), check to make sure you have a Zinwell WB68 switch. (You would know if you had anything else that was certified for the new satellites, they are expensive switches.)
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll go out on the roof tonight and play. I've installed the old 18" system several times before so I am not afraid of trying anything and have the patience to try it. I can just pencil mark everything so I have a return to home point. I have a good area to work where I can prop a monitor up next to dish. I appreciate your help.

I do have the BBCs installed, and the WB68 switch. I had a spare BBC to check with and it didnt change anything - all zeros. I'll see what results I get from following those procedures and go from there. Its a slimline dish.

I'll go ahead and check all the connections while I am out there as well - never know.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

VeniceDre said:


> The numbers we see for 103(a) are a spotbeam pointed right smack dab on us. That's why they are so high.
> 
> Sidenote: another user in San Diego has a WHC slimline or something that sounds like it, that has 80-90s on his dish... want that slimline to test.


Yes! It's very strange that you have nearly identical numbers on the 103(a) with the AT9 and the Calamp AU9-S, but such a disparity in the 103(b's) on the Calamp. Mine is a WNC (Wistron,) and I've got great numbers on both, so maybe there's something going on here that would explain a _lot_ of these folks problems with good 103(a) signals and bad 103(b) ones. Posters should also now post the brand of their LNB.


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## jj4u0 (Aug 7, 2007)

103a vs 103b in philly area


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

That looks mighty fine. Do you know the brand of that LNB?


----------



## CKeim (Jan 24, 2005)

VeniceDre said:


> Sidenote: another user in San Diego has a WHC slimline or something that sounds like it, that has 80-90s on his dish... want that slimline to test.


If these numbers don't go up when D10 goes live, I'll definitely be looking for a new dish.

What I'm trying to understand is, even though the spotbeam is sending a stronger signal, it's still a Ka signal with a narrow peak, correct? I know it's not Ka-Lo like 103(b), but if 103(a) is peaked what could be off in the CalAmp dish/LNB to cause the 103(b) numbers to be so low?

I'm still waiting for someone with A CalAmp to report strong 103(a) and (b) readings. Hopefully we'll get some more data.


----------



## ChrisPC (Jun 17, 2003)

103a is very low for me, but I don't have any spotbeams on it here. 103b is 70-80. The LNB doesn't say CalAmp or Wistron, it says Andrew.


----------



## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

CKeim said:


> If these numbers don't go up when D10 goes live, I'll definitely be looking for a new dish.
> 
> What I'm trying to understand is, even though the spotbeam is sending a stronger signal, it's still a Ka signal with a narrow peak, correct? I know it's not Ka-Lo like 103(b), but if 103(a) is peaked what could be off in the CalAmp dish/LNB to cause the 103(b) numbers to be so low?
> 
> I'm still waiting for someone with A CalAmp to report strong 103(a) and (b) readings. Hopefully we'll get some more data.


I'm going try to get my hands on a Wistrom dish this week to test the signal.

I have a client who's slimline we installed 2 months ago who has mid 80-90s, a couple of 95s even, on 103b, I can't get up on her roof anytime soon to see the brand name. She's only 1/2 mile up the beach from me in Santa Monica. So high numbers are possible with a slimline. Wish I knew her brand name.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

VeniceDre said:


> I'm going try to get my hands on a Wistrom dish this week to test the signal.
> 
> I have a client who's slimline we installed 2 months ago who has mid 80-90s, a couple of 95s even, on 103b, I can't get up on her roof anytime soon to see the brand name. She's only 1/2 mile up the beach from me in Santa Monica. So high numbers are possible with a slimline. Wish I knew her brand name.


Honestly... should it matter what brand LNB or dish you have?


----------



## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Honestly... should it matter what brand LNB or dish you have?


It shouldn't, but why are we seeing lower readings on the CALAMP, I've got lower readings across the board with it compared to the AU9. Both are professionally peaked.

Since it's different manufacturers don't you think there can be a difference on how the LNBs sit?


----------



## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

VeniceDre said:


> I'm going try to get my hands on a Wistrom dish this week to test the signal.
> 
> I have a client who's slimline we installed 2 months ago who has mid 80-90s, a couple of 95s even, on 103b, I can't get up on her roof anytime soon to see the brand name. She's only 1/2 mile up the beach from me in Santa Monica. So high numbers are possible with a slimline. Wish I knew her brand name.


I couldn't read the brand name from the ground and I don't have a ladder long enough to get up to the roof, but a digital camera with a good zoom lens will do the trick if you have the proper sight line from the ground.


----------



## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

VeniceDre said:


> It shouldn't, but why are we seeing lower readings on the CALAMP, I've got lower readings across the board with it compared to the AU9. Both are professionally peaked.
> 
> Since it's different manufacturers don't you think there can be a difference on how the LNBs sit?


What's the discrepancy?

I really don't know enough about it to weigh in either way, just curious. I have an AT9 with no idea what type of LNB I have. If you tell me where to find out that info I'll get on a ladder later. 

77-81 range across the TP's.


----------



## skyboysea (Nov 1, 2002)

My Calamp has a label on the side of the LNB facing the dish.
I have spent one hour today trying to peek the signal but there is no way to get 103b higher than low 70s. 
Bobnielsen posted levels way higher and he lives just 20 miles South of here. So I am scretching my head and hoping there is an issue with the dish. At least that's easy to fix.


----------



## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> What's the discrepancy?
> 
> I really don't know enough about it to weigh in either way, just curious. I have an AT9 with no idea what type of LNB I have. If you tell me where to find out that info I'll get on a ladder later.
> 
> 77-81 range across the TP's.


AT9 is fine, there are 4 different manufacturers of the AU9 Slimline, we are trying to figure out why the Cal Amp Slimline levels seem low.


----------



## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

99b

1-6: 52 95 49 96 61 97
----

101

1-8: 95 95 94 00 93 98 95 98
9-16: 95 95 94 00 91 96 91 98
17-24: 87 100 85 00 89 97 95 98
25-32: 94 100 92 89 92 98 91 99
...

103a

1-6: 96 0 97 27 96 17
17: 0
---

103b
1-8: 0 0 0 79 87 75 88 76
9-14: 87 80 87 83 87 82
17 & 22: 91 87
---

110

8,10,12: 86 86 84
----

119

22-24: 58 0 61
25-32: 40 57 0 65 54 60 0 68


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> ....While I my first inclination is to agree that peaking off 103/99 would be a good way to go these days, I've been PMed by a great contributer that there was a demonstration given to installers that such is not the way to go. Obviously, I haven't seen the demonstration nor read the detailed analysis; but I trust my source......
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Obviously an 18 degree arc (119-101) is longer than a 4 degree arc (103-99.) That said I would dearly love to know more info from your friend who has seen the video. You seem to be saying that the installers are being advised in that video not to fine tune 99/103 _at all_. Perhaps at the time it was made (for national use?) there were not necessarily Ka satellites available to use in every location. With the Ka's being so critical in their fine tuning with these two dish types and now the advent of at least one CONUS Ka satellite, I don't see how one can say, "Don't fine tune on the Ka satellite(s), just carefully peak the 101/119." It's just not precise enough in practice.


----------



## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> Obviously an 18 degree arc (119-101) is longer than a 4 degree arc (103-99.) That said I would dearly love to know more info from your friend who has seen the video. You seem to be saying that the installers are being advised in that video not to fine tune 99/103 _at all_. Perhaps at the time it was made (for national use?) there were not necessarily Ka satellites available to use in every location. With the Ka's being so critical in their fine tuning with these two dish types and now the advent of at least one CONUS Ka satellite, I don't see how one can say, "Don't fine tune on the Ka satellite(s), just carefully peak the 101/119." It's just not precise enough in practice.


The experience I had today may shed some light of why peaking 99/103 is not necessarily good. A Direct Sat tech realigned the AT9 due too low signals on 103a highest was 61. After the dish was aligned that signal now is between 89-100. However the 119 was signal was in the low 80s before and now very low as noted above.


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

DVDKingdom said:


> The experience I had today may shed some light of why peaking 99/103 is not necessarily good. A Direct Sat tech realigned the AT9 due too low signals on 103a highest was 61. After the dish was aligned that signal now is between 89-100. However the 119 was signal was in the low 80s before and now very low as noted above.


Did the service tech adjust the tilt (skew) for 119? This is the most critical tuning point for 119.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

DVDKingdom said:


> The experience I had today may shed some light of why peaking 99/103 is not necessarily good. A Direct Sat tech realigned the AT9 due too low signals on 103a highest was 61. After the dish was aligned that signal now is between 89-100. However the 119 was signal was in the low 80s before and now very low as noted above.


Agreed. You need to get that guy back out there, because you've got other issues.


----------



## Canis Lupus (Oct 16, 2006)

The Andrew is the AT-9 which came into question about a year ago when I was checking my LNBs after an install. I also have a Winstrom Newweb (WNC) and have had no probs.

There was a thread or 2 here about a year ago though pegging Andrew as a possible sub-par LNB manufacturer.



ChrisPC said:


> 103a is very low for me, but I don't have any spotbeams on it here. 103b is 70-80. The LNB doesn't say CalAmp or Wistron, it says Andrew.


----------



## dedalus_00 (Sep 8, 2007)

Gmaxx said:


> 50's to 70's on 103a
> 
> 70's to low 80's on 103b
> 
> ...


Weird, I'm getting higher readings on B than A as well... and I am only about a mile from Boston city limits. I wonder if we had the same installer.


----------



## VeniceDre (Aug 16, 2006)

Ok, so here are current readings for me Venice Beach, CA (Los Angeles)

AT9 WNC Sidecar

101

95 95 95 51 92 98 87 97
92 95 94 39 95 98 89 98
88 100 88 47 95 98 93 98
95 0 91 100 95 98 91 99

110

95 95 95

119

86 80 88 88 91 91 89 49 91 89 95

99(b)

15 47 64 33 48 00

103(a)

98 83 00 96 97 85

103(b)

00 00 00 87 78 87 81 83
85 89 84 85 88 91 NA NA 
90 NA NA NA NA 90 NA NA

AU9 CalAmp Slimline

101

95 94 92 44 95 97 91 96
95 95 94 39 95 98 94 98
93 100 90 100 94 98 88 98

110

95 95 95

119

89 79 89 86 91 91 89 47 90 86 92

99b

16 46 44 34 32 00

103a

97 81 00 96 96 83

103b

00 00 00 77 76 76 77 74
83 76 80 75 85 81 NA NA
85 NA NA NA NA 83 NA NA

The big differences between the 2 are the 119 & 103b... Since it's 119 I would say adjust the tilt but going either direction doesn't improve 119. Gonna play with tilt and elevation a bit more and see what happens.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

dedalus_00 said:


> Weird, I'm getting higher readings on B than A as well... and I am only about a mile from Boston city limits. I wonder if we had the same installer.


I think that's because your HD LIL's in Boston are on the 99 satellite, so you probably _shouldn't_ be getting full strength signals on the 103(a).


----------



## Tibs (Jul 6, 2007)

Ok guys...

I went up on the roof with all my stuff (HR20, 15" LCD) - and got everything hooked up.

Then I looked at the level bubble - It was all the way to the rear left standing behind the dish. I corrected this by TIGHTENING THE DARN BOLTS. Ok, that really screwed up the readings. 

So, I peaked 101 back and forth and noticed the tilt was off so I moved my tilt from 61 to 70 (Which is what the reciever said to do) and wow 98 and 100s (Except those few that are now zero....boggle).

So I did the elevation and it was off by two degrees. That seems to have helped 119 along with fixing the rotation.

So guess what - I've got 95-98 on TP4-17 on 103B now. I havent played with the dither part yet, Im going to do that next - I was just amazed at how crappy of of job this guy did. The tilt bolts WERE NOT TIGHT - The only thing that was tight was the azimuth clamp and the dither things.

I'll post my numbers when done and see if Im missing any transponders - I know there are some spots around here so not sure what is where.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

VeniceDre said:


> Ok, so here are current readings for me Venice Beach, CA (Los Angeles)....AT9 WNC Sidecar....AU9 CalAmp Slimline.....


My eyes are swimming!!! Can't wait to see what happens with the WNC....

The 103(b's) have been down as much as 6-7 points in the last 24 hours on almost all tp's here up until a little while ago. Now they're back up a good bit, but not as strong as when they first lit 'em all up the other day. This is going to make your further comparisons difficult to interpret unless you re-run all those number near simultaneously. Dish fine tuners beware....


----------



## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> Agreed. You need to get that guy back out there, because you've got other issues.


OK, I've called them back. Extremely quick response too, called the toll free number in the paperwork that goes directly to the executive office of Direct Sat at 4:39 and the techs are already here working on the dish now.


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

DVDKingdom said:


> OK, I've called them back. Extremely quick response too, called the toll free number in the paperwork that goes directly to the executive office of DirecT Sat at 4:39 and the techs are already here working on the dish now.


Let us know the results, and if possible, what was tweaked.


----------



## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

techrep said:


> Let us know the results, and if possible, what was tweaked.


Update: The techs are replacing the AT9 with an AU9.


----------



## RaiderEd (Sep 15, 2007)

I live in Rhode Island (the state is so small does it really matter where? lol) and like some of you guys in Boston, my numbers on 103b are better than 103a as well. 103b ranges from 77-95, but a is all over the place, TP 2 (I dont have the TV in front of me, working off memory) is a pathetic 12, while another is 51. When I check all the other sats they all seem to be in the high 90's to 100. Not sure exactly what that means, Im still pretty new at this, but I figured I could throw it out there to you guys and see what you think. I had a proffesional installer out back in November to install a 5 lnb dish. I almost never lose signal, it has to be a monsoon out there for the picture to skip, so seeing these numbers so low on 103a and b seems strange. Any thoughts?


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

DVDKingdom said:


> Update: The techs are replacing the AT9 with an AU9.


Well, that answers the "tweaked" question:lol:


----------



## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

Updated readings after job completed.

99b

1-6: 66 93 60 95 64 96
----

101

1-8: 95 95 93 0 91 98 90 98
9-16: 91 95 91 0 88 96 83 97
17-24: 79 100 82 21 89 98 91 98
25-32: 86 100 86 90 92 98 89 100
...

103a

1-6: 97 98 52 98 33
17: 0
---

103b
1-8: 0 0 82 79 94 89 94 86
9-14: 93 88 92 87 91 83
17 & 22: 95 95
---

110

8,10,12: 95 95 92
----

119

22-24: 91 0 92
25-32: 95 92 95 87 92 91 0 95


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

DVDKingdom said:


> Updated readings after job completed.
> 
> 99b
> 
> ...


Those look good across the board from 99 -119. Peeking any one sat, at that point, might compromise another.


----------



## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

techrep said:


> Those look good across the board from 99 -119. Peeking any one sat, at that point, might compromise another.


Thanks... no further peeking will be done.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

DVDKingdom said:


> Thanks... no further peeking will be done.


Don't do any "tweaking" either! But would you mind one more peek - at that AU9-S and telling us the brand label (just under the 3 individual LNB's)? That's pretty good service you got, no?


----------



## ansky (Oct 11, 2005)

I'm getting a 95+ signal from all transponders on 103b now, even the first two that were zero the past couple days.


----------



## jimmyv2000 (Feb 15, 2007)

ansky said:


> I'm getting a 95+ signal from all transponders on 103b now, even the first two that were zero the past couple days.


There all lit up now before 2 were dead


----------



## Tibs (Jul 6, 2007)

My updated numbers - I feel better:

101

97 97 96 49 96 98 92 98
95 96 94 33 96 99 95 99
86 100 88 28 96 99 94 99
91 95 88 98 95 99 92 100

110

92 96 95

119

98 36 99
100 98 98 98 97 99 0 100

99

52 96 58 0 57 95 (I am just guessing this is the Altanta and Nashvile beams I see).

103a

84 43 86 45 86 48
0

103b

97 96 95 95 95 95 95 95
96 96 95 96 96 97
98 99


----------



## bigtiii (Sep 5, 2007)

haven't checked 103a and I'm recording now so I can't but.....did check 103b a few minutes ago and all transponders are humming with high 90s

now if they would just "transpond" some channels down to me.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

ansky said:


> I'm getting a 95+ signal from all transponders on 103b now, even the first two that were zero the past couple days.


Well you posted how you got there in the other thread, so for the benefit of those here, this is what you did:


ansky said:


> I re-aligned off 103(b) this morning and it worked great. I used the transponder with the strongest signal level on 103(b) which for me was about 65 at the time. I adjusted the elevation on my dish and got that signal from 65 to 95 in about 10 seconds! Everything fell into place and even my signals on the other sats improved with many of them at 100 now.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Tibs said:


> .....Then I looked at the level bubble - It was all the way to the rear left standing behind the dish. ..... I was just amazed at how crappy of of job this guy did. The tilt bolts WERE NOT TIGHT - The only thing that was tight was the azimuth clamp and the dither things.....


A lot of this is going to start showing up, I'm afraid. Glad you got it all straightened out yourself. Those are great numbers!


----------



## Blurayfan (Nov 16, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> Don't do any "tweaking" either! But would you mind one more peek - at that AU9-S and telling us the brand label (just under the 3 individual LNB's)? That's pretty good service you got, no?


I'm unable get on the roof and get the info. Yes, that was very good service.


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

K4SMX said:


> Well you posted how you got there in the other thread, so for the benefit of those here, this is what you did:


K4SMX, I saw your post in another thread about "peaking" 103b (or 103a) and agree. With 103b about in the middle of the sky, for about 80% of folks, setting the dish for that sat and then tilting (skewing) for 119 covers 99-119. I put up my slimline and adjusted a few of my friends dishes this way using a acutrac III with good results.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

techrep said:


> K4SMX, I saw your post in another thread about "peaking" 103b (or 103a) and agree. With 103b about in the middle of the sky, for about 80% of folks, setting the dish for that sat and then tilting (skewing) for 119 covers 99-119. I put up my slimline and adjusted a few of my friends dishes this way using a acutrac III with good results.


Well that's _not_ the way I _start_. I follow the regular procedure, finding the AZ on the 101, then finding as best I can the broad peaks of the 101 and the 119, as outlined in the instruction manual. Otherwize, you may never even _find_ the 103's. Next I dither the 103(a) and the 99(b). Then a final tilt check on the 99(b)/103(a), because the 119 is blowing me away anyhow, so if I have to give up a couple of points on the 119, that's OK. That usually doesn't happen, but these things _are_ mass produced. I think they're pretty darn good for their size, all things considered.


----------



## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

I am getting high 90's on 103 (b), but nothing on 103 (a).

Should I or should I not get something on 103 (a) from Charleston, SC?


----------



## gizzorge (Jul 31, 2007)

Like some have suggested above, 103 (a) has to be spot beams. Here in central VA, I get:

80 8 0 93 82 6

The rest are n/a (with the exception of TP 17 (I think) which is 0. I don't seem to be missing any channels.

My 103 (b) readings are all in the mid to upper 90s.

So, I would think that's normal... maybe. I don't know much about what 103 (a) is used for. :lol:


----------



## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

reubenray said:


> I am getting high 90's on 103 (b), but nothing on 103 (a). Should I or should I not get something on 103 (a) from Charleston, SC?


Unless you are missing HD locals or HD regional sports channels that you should be getting, 0's on the 103a are probably normal.

I get all 0's on the 103a here in Kentucky. There are no spotbeams near me from that satellite, evidently.


----------



## MoInSTL (Mar 29, 2006)

I don't have my set on right now for all TP readings but know that all sats, including 103(b) are 95% except 103(a) and 99(b). They both are 57%-59%.
I do receive HD locals and the current HD channels. It's been clear, cloudless days for the most part but even cloud cover is causing pixelazation. 

I can't recall what 99(b) does so I don't know how important it is to tweak that.


----------



## tpm1999 (Sep 5, 2006)

MoInSTL said:


> I don't have my set on right now for all TP readings but know that all sats, including 103(b) are 95% except 103(a) and 99(b). They both are 57%-59%.
> I do receive HD locals and the current HD channels. It's been clear, cloudless days for the most part but even cloud cover is causing pixelazation.
> 
> I can't recall what 99(b) does so I don't know how important it is to tweak that.


103(a) is the local HD channels in Saint Louis.

99 is not used in Saint Louis....until D11 is launched and will be parked there.


----------



## MoInSTL (Mar 29, 2006)

tpm1999 said:


> 103(a) is the local HD channels in Saint Louis.
> 
> 99 is not used in Saint Louis....until D11 is launched and will be parked there.


Thanks for the response. I guess I didn't remember what 99(b) is for because it's not very important right now.


----------



## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

99°(b) and 103°(a) are all spotbeams. Each area will have different readings as it all depends on what sports are aimed at or nearby that region. Between the many transponders on those two satellite locations, I only get a very few with signal, and only one above 90. (Which then has to be my HD locals spot.) 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

techrep said:


> Let us know the results, and if possible, what was tweaked.


Nice avatar!


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

fredandbetty said:


> Nice avatar, i work for them too!


How-Ya Doing? What department? And to stay on topic, how are your signals?


----------



## fredandbetty (Jan 28, 2007)

techrep said:


> How-Ya Doing? What department? And to stay on topic, how are your signals?


lol! oh YEAH RIGHT!

i am a driver here.

Signals:

90 94 88 94 85 92 86 92

85 90 87 92 87 92 n/a n/a

92 n/a n/a n/a n/a 95 n/a n/a

n/a across the board


----------



## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

fredandbetty said:


> lol! oh YEAH RIGHT!
> 
> i am a driver here.
> 
> ...


Mine are 88-96 so about the same. I used to get to DTW regularly but they changed the bird, Ithink, to an 8.


----------



## sch (Sep 19, 2007)

CKeim said:


> If these numbers don't go up when D10 goes live, I'll definitely be looking for a new dish.
> 
> What I'm trying to understand is, even though the spotbeam is sending a stronger signal, it's still a Ka signal with a narrow peak, correct? I know it's not Ka-Lo like 103(b), but if 103(a) is peaked what could be off in the CalAmp dish/LNB to cause the 103(b) numbers to be so low?
> 
> I'm still waiting for someone with A CalAmp to report strong 103(a) and (b) readings. Hopefully we'll get some more data.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am in central California and experiencing the same issue reported by others - high signals on 103a (90's) and low signals on 103b (mostly 65 to 75 with a few in the 90's). I tried to tweak the dish with very little success as others have reported.

I then disconnected my multiswitch (Zinwell WB616) and direct wired two of the receivers to the dish. At that point I completely lost any signal from 103a and 103b but my 99b signal went up 15 points and the 119 went up 10 points. No impact on 101 or 110. I received the same results on all four lines from the dish.

Once I reconnected the four lines from the dish back to the multiswtich I then received the 103a signal and 103b signals again as noted above. My lnb is a Cal/Amp. Unless anyone has any other suggestions, I would guess my lnb needs to be replaced?


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

sch said:


> ....... My lnb is a Cal/Amp. Unless anyone has any other suggestions, I would guess my lnb needs to be replaced?


This is looking more and more like it's going to be a previously unrecognized problem. Maybe someone with knowledge of LNB design could explain why this _might_ be the case.


----------



## crendall (Jun 27, 2006)

I've got the Slimline dish, WB68 multi-switch, HR20-100, and H20-100 receiver. Both of my receivers have been showing zero signal strength on all transponders on 103b. I've swapped out BBC's and still nothing. A couple days ago I did a signal as high as 35, but that quickly went away. 

Could my grounding block or the connectors in the wall plate be blocking the signals from 103b? I get HD locals from DirecTV with a beautiful picture, so I'm not sure if my dish needs adjusting or if there is something else along the way that is blocking the signal.


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

crendall said:


> I've got the Slimline dish, WB68 multi-switch, HR20-100, and H20-100 receiver. Both of my receivers have been showing zero signal strength on all transponders on 103b. I've swapped out BBC's and still nothing. A couple days ago I did a signal as high as 35, but that quickly went away.
> 
> Could my grounding block or the connectors in the wall plate be blocking the signals from 103b? I get HD locals from DirecTV with a beautiful picture, so I'm not sure if my dish needs adjusting or if there is something else along the way that is blocking the signal.


Why don't you post all 5 satellite readings. What city is your HD local market. It's a little hard to analyze w/out more data, although I know it's a PIA.


----------



## crendall (Jun 27, 2006)

When I go to channel 499 I am getting a searching for signal message.

My HD local market is Green Bay, WI. 

Here are me readings:

101
1-8 80 83 83 0 77 95 78 94
9-16 71 84 80 0 75 95 76 95
17-24 66 100 75 0 76 95 77 94
25-32 70 98 74 82 72 94 69 96

110
1-8 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 74
9-16 n/a 72 n/a 74 n/a

119
17-24 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 78 95 74
25-32 0 80 78 81 47 81 0 83

99b
1-8 0 68 0 67 0 67 n/a n/a

103a
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 n/a n/a
9-16 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
17-24 0

103b
1-8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
9-16 0 0 0 0 0 0 n/a n/a
17-24 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a 0 n/a n/a


----------



## run2lax (Aug 24, 2007)

oakwcj said:


> The three transponders I receive on 103(a) have signal strengths of 95+, while all transponders on 103(b) are in the mid 70's, with the exception of 17, which is apparently a spotbeam, and has a reading around 90. What would account for these differences in readings from satellites so close to each other? Is it spotbeam vs. CONUS?


I get 90's all the way around


----------



## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

crendall said:


> When I go to channel 499 I am getting a searching for signal message.
> 
> My HD local market is Green Bay, WI.
> 
> ...


Your dish is out of alignment. You have low signals on the Ku satellites, marginal signals on the Ka satellite which carries your HD local (99(b)), and almost no signals on the other two Ka HD satellites, 103(a) and (b).

Why do you use a WB68 if you only use an Hr20 and an H20? Before realigning your dish, remove all the connections to your WB68 (marking what goes where) and hook your H20 directly up to your dish with a double female coupler. (You'll need to put a BBC ahead of the H20 input,) Then recheck those readings before realignment. Have you always had numbers that low?


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## crendall (Jun 27, 2006)

K4SMX,

I have the WB68 because I also have a HD Tivo. I haven't checked my signal readings that often since I had the Slimline dish installed last May. 

I called DirecTV about getting my dish adjusted and the person I talked to said I should see all zeros on 103a and 103b. I mentioned other people are seeing numbers in the 80-90 range for all transponders on 103b, but she said getting all zeros is what I should be seeing.

She also said my 99b signal strength in the 60s was normal. 

I think I'll have to call back again and see if I can get a hold of someone else that knows what they are talking about.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

crendall said:


> K4SMX,
> 
> I have the WB68 because I also have a HD Tivo. I haven't checked my signal readings that often since I had the Slimline dish installed last May.
> 
> ...


Agreed. You should not be seeing all zeros on 103(b). And if your HD locals really are on 99(b), which I can't confirm because the LyngSat info must be out of date, those signals are marginal.


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## cygnusloop (Jan 26, 2007)

Another CalAmp AU9 Slimline datapoint.

All my signals on 101,110 and 119 are *all* mid to high 90s with several 100s. My spot on 103a is 96. I have peaked the dish, and I am pretty sure it is very well pointed.

My 103b:

76 72 77 73 77 74 80 76
82 79 83 79 85 81 
93 86

Something ain't right with these CalAmp Dishes/LNB's.


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## Bigworm (Sep 2, 2007)

Sorry I missed this post earlier, but I`ve been just skimming latley trying to find info on the new HD. Many of you say you have better numbers on 103a as opposed to 103b, actually mine is the opposite:

103 A:
1-8: 78 98 68 92 73 98 na na
9-16 na na na na na na na na
17-24 0 na na na na na na na
25-32 na na na na na na na na

103 B:
1-8: 95 97 95 95 94 95 94 94
9-16 94 95 94 94 94 95 na na
17-24 97 na na na na 97 na na
25-32 na na na na na na na na


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Bigworm said:


> Sorry I missed this post earlier, but I`ve been just skimming latley trying to find info on the new HD. Many of you say you have better numbers on 103a as opposed to 103b, actually mine is the opposite:
> 
> 103 A:
> 1-8: 78 98 68 92 73 98 na na
> ...


You do have better numbers on 103(a) than on 103(b) because 103(a) carries spotbeams, and only one or two of the signals are relevant to you (probably 2 and 6). The others are spotbeams pointed at different cities so will have lower signal strength. So you are getting 98 on 103(a).


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

cygnusloop said:


> Another CalAmp AU9 Slimline datapoint.
> 
> All my signals on 101,110 and 119 are *all* mid to high 90s with several 100s. My spot on 103a is 96. I have peaked the dish, and I am pretty sure it is very well pointed.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's sure beginning to look that way. That got me to thinking, not really thoroughly understanding exactly the Ka Low process, that there may be something in the down convert process of the Ka Low portion of the Calamp combo LNB which is resulting in a lower output level to the BBC than the process used for the Ka High portion. That brings up the additional possible question of how, on a dynamic basis, this LNB handles actual variations in Ka Low signals when the inevitable rain fade arrives. You'd think it would result in a linear reduction of output to the BBC, resulting in earlier loss of signal at the receiver, but it's not impossible that this is not the case. I guess we'll find out soon enough, but mostly 70's with a Ka Low signal on a perfectly aligned dish is certainly cause for concern at this point.

The question of "perfect alignment' also requires another look. Just because one sees ~95's on the 103(a)'s does not necessarily mean you're perfectly aligned for the 103(a) and (b) on every dish. See post #29 and the subsequent discussion in this thread, where texasbrit (AT9), with those kind of 103(a) signals, was able to raise his 103(b)'s from the low 80's to the mid-90's with further realignment, simultaneously raising his 103(a)'s even higher. Also please note the odd/even 103(b) signal level disparity discussion, which quite a few have experienced, and how that discrepancy disappears with more accurate alignment.


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## tdbohannon (Sep 13, 2006)

I am getting the test message on 498, but my signal strengths on 103(b) are all in the mid 60's to high 70's. Streghth from all other sats is 85+. Should I be worried, or since I'm getting the test screen I should just leave it alone?


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## Sirshagg (Dec 30, 2006)

tdbohannon said:


> I am getting the test message on 498, but my signal strengths on 103(b) are all in the mid 60's to high 70's. Streghth from all other sats is 85+. Should I be worried, or since I'm getting the test screen I should just leave it alone?


That's a bit to low and you probably want to have it adjusted. The image on 498 is REALLY simple and so being able to get it without pixelization or other issues isn;t really a good gauge on your signal strength.


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## crendall (Jun 27, 2006)

I just got my dish adjusted and now I'm getting 94-99 on all transponders for 103b! I went through the signal strength for all the satellite locations and I'm getting 94-100 on all transponders except the ones that are zero. And now I can see the D10 test channel 498! I'm ready!!


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## Bigworm (Sep 2, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> You do have better numbers on 103(a) than on 103(b) because 103(a) carries spotbeams, and only one or two of the signals are relevant to you (probably 2 and 6). The others are spotbeams pointed at different cities so will have lower signal strength. So you are getting 98 on 103(a).


Makes sense. That`s kinda what I thought, but wasn`t sure. Appreciate the info.


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## mplinsme (Sep 14, 2007)

I've got a question about signal strengths, I am seeing something really wierd.

On Tuner 1, 103b, I get the following signal strengths:
TP 1 -8 0 0 76 0 86 88 81 87
TP 9-16 86 88 79 87 88 93 NA NA
TP 17-24 96 NA NA NA NA 96 NA NA

On Tuner 2, 103b, I get the following:
TP 1-8 78 76 74 0 86 88 79 86
9-16 88 91 82 89 90 95 nA NA
17-24 92 NA NA NA NA 95 NA NA

My question is, why the 0's?

Also, why do the signal strengths increase for the higher txps?

Thanks for your help


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

K4SMX, what's your take on these......................................

No HD Locals, 115 ft. cable run, cloudy skies, no multiswitch (direct to AT9)

*101*
96 95 96 0 95 97 95 97
95 96 97 0 97 100 97 100
96 89 97 0 97 98 96 100
95 47 95 95 96 98 96 99

*110*
95 94 96

*119*
97 100 96 0 97 97 97 0 98 100 100

*99b*
10 83 57 82 0 0

*103a*
52 0 13 66 51 0

*103b*
91 74 87 75 90 79 86 82 92 85 88 86 95 90 97 96


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Donnie Byrd said:


> K4SMX, what's your take on these......................................
> 
> No HD Locals, 115 ft. cable run, cloudy skies, no multiswitch (direct to AT9)
> 
> ...


Those look pretty good, but could be tweaked. It looks like 99(b) carries your local HD spotbeams. They match your 103(b)'s pretty well, but you don't have either of these Ka's all in the 90's or close to it, where they could be. I'm sure you'll have no trouble with your PQ, but you could experience earlier rain fade than others.

It also looks like you have the odd/even disparity phenomenon on your 103(b) LNB, although it's hard to tell, since I don't have access to TV right now and can't remember the last couple of rows of 103(b) tp #'s.


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

K4SMX said:


> Those look pretty good, but could be tweaked. It looks like 99(b) carries your local HD spotbeams. They match your 103(b)'s pretty well, but you don't have either of these Ka's all in the 90's or close to it, where they could be. I'm sure you'll have no trouble with your PQ, but you could experience earlier rain fade than others.
> 
> It also looks like you have the odd/even disparity phenomenon on your 103(b) LNB, although it's hard to tell, since I don't have access to TV right now and can't remember the last couple of rows of 103(b) tp #'s.


Thanks 

I'm definitely not satisfied with the 103b.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

103b signals here in Arkansas up two points on all transponders. Most were 88 all week, now all 90 or 91 except 17 which always has been 95


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## oakwcj (Sep 28, 2006)

My 103(b) readings have stayed in the 65-75 range all week. We had a very light rain this morning, which dropped many of the transponders into the 50's. Based on the advice from Tom Robertson and others, I decided to request a dish realignment. The same installer who put in my replacement AU-9 two weeks ago came out this afternoon. At first, he didn't believe that these were real readings, so I showed him channels 480-81 and 498. He had not been told about any of this. He did his best to fine tune the dish [Calamp LNB], but could not improve the signal strengths by more than about 5% without losing the 119 satellite. He said that he preferred the Winstrom LNB's to Calamp, but that they were very rare in California. I guess that we'll just have to see how these readings translate into real performance once the satellite is turned on, but it may be premature, at least for those of us on the West Coast with Calamp LNB assemblies, to request realignments.


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## johnnytex (Jul 20, 2007)

OK, after a stiff drink (of Coffee), I got up on the roof and was going to tweak the dish.
Wasn’t bad, 101 mostly 85-90, but 103b had several 40’s.
When I got there, the mast was not plum, one of the screws that holds on the LNB to the mast was laying on the ground and when I touched the dish it; drooped down.
Great install from a month ago.
Went back inside and reread the set up manual and away I went to do a full align.
I had no meter just used the TV screen and the girlfriend on the cell phone.
Here are the results I got:
101 
98 95 98 28 96 100 95 100
97 97 96 100 96 100 97 100
97 0 98 100 98 100 98 100
97 73 98 69 98 100 95 100

103b
N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
66 61 95 94 93 94 90 94
91 95 91 93 92 95 N/A N/A
98 N/A N/A N/A N/A 98 N/A N/A

103a
98 0 94 15 95 16 N/A N/A
0 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

99b
0 0 52 77 0 79 N/A N/A

119
N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 100 78 98
96 100 100 100 94 100 98 100

110
N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 95

These look good to me but there still are some goose eggs and low reading. But I hope these are spot beams and I am OK. Can I put up the ladder?
It was reasonability easy. I started with all 0’s on the 101 but had a signal on 119. One I tweaked it. I went back to 101and all fell into place.

Thanks for the help and encouragement, so now Bring On The HD

I live in Dallas, TX


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## kerry431 (Feb 18, 2006)

I am getting mid 90's in everything except 103a and 99b which show nothing. Are they spotbeams, and if so shouldn't be getting some reading at least?


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

kerry431 said:


> I am getting mid 90's in everything except 103a and 99b which show nothing. Are they spotbeams, and if so shouldn't be getting some reading at least?


99b and 103a are spot beams. You will get some readings from them if you are close to an area recieving that spot beam but it isn't abnormal to see nothing. With the "90's reading on every thing" (101,110,103b, and 119) you'r looking good.


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## tmuirheid (Jan 17, 2004)

Sirshagg said:


> 99-100 on 103a
> 79-85 on 103b


Vitually the same signal strength I get in Dallas/Fort Worth area.


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## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

Well I had my 5LNB installed last Sunday and here are my crappy results.
Atlanta , GA
HR20-700

*101*
89 95 85 87 83 96 82 95
82 95 80 74 85 95 76 96
74 97 77 80 79 95 78 96
77 96 74 89 80 95 75 96

*110*
80 86 81

*119*
x x x x x 96 0 95 
0 96 96 96 0 96 0 97

*99b*
0 0 0 0 0 0

*103A*
51 0 50 0 45 0
0

*103b*
12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 X X
0

Needless to say I can't get chan 498 . So I guess I need to get him back out here to realign the dish! What do you think?


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## crendall (Jun 27, 2006)

I was getting similar results on 103a and 103b. I called DirecTV for a realignment and after that my signal strength was in the mid 90s for 103b. I only had signal strength on a couple transponders on 103a, but they were all in the mid 90s also. After the dish adjustment I was able to tune to channel 498. 

I would definitely get your dish realigned!


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## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

Thanks Ill call the installer, he gave me his cell number. If he wont play ball I'll call Directv. I figured Ill give him a chance to make it right before escalating him and calling Directv.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

robdec said:


> Well I had my 5LNB installed last Sunday and here are my crappy results.
> Atlanta , GA
> HR20-700
> 
> ...


That is really inexcusable. You receive your ATL local HD's on 103(a). Your 103(a) signals are barely passable. I get mid-90's on the ATL locals, which are my locals at my current, temporary location. You should expect at least that, since I am not in the center of the spot beam. You should wind up with 103(b) sigs in the high 80's to mid 90's as well.


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## ffcv22id (Dec 6, 2006)

are you sure about the Atlanta HD locals being on 103(a)? I get zeros on 103(a), but I still have the Atlanta HD locals


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## rbrome (Aug 18, 2006)

Here's what I have. It looks good to me, but please let me know if there's anything to be concerned about!


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

rbrome said:


> Here's what I have. It looks good to me, but please let me know if there's anything to be concerned about!


You should be fine.


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## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

WOW.. I wish my numbers looked liked that.


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## rbrome (Aug 18, 2006)

robdec said:


> WOW.. I wish my numbers looked liked that.


Don't wish too much. I've always had high numbers for each sat with this dish, but still get audio and video breakups all the time. On the new test channel (498) I get pretty bad audio (distortion and breakups), and even occasional picture breakups.  I'm hoping that's just because it's a test channel.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

rbrome said:


> Don't wish too much. I've always had high numbers for each sat with this dish, but still get audio and video breakups all the time. On the new test channel (498) I get pretty bad audio (distortion and breakups), and even occasional picture breakups.  I'm hoping that's just because it's a test channel.


Nope, that's not your problem. 

I haven't had a single issue with any of the test channel stuff, even the 9300/9301 test Saturday night. It's gotta be something else in the signal chain or even simply a bad receiver.


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## rbrome (Aug 18, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> Nope, that's not your problem.
> 
> I haven't had a single issue with any of the test channel stuff, even the 9300/9301 test Saturday night. It's gotta be something else in the signal chain or even simply a bad receiver.


I have brand-new BBCs. That didn't help. I've tried to narrow it down to a tuner, but haven't had any luck there, either. Could it simply be a bum HR20? That would be a tough decision - I have so much saved on mine that I don't want to lose!


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## Gmaxx (Sep 25, 2006)

robdec said:


> WOW.. I wish my numbers looked liked that.


+1

I need to request a realignment.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

ffcv22id said:


> are you sure about the Atlanta HD locals being on 103(a)? I get zeros on 103(a), but I still have the Atlanta HD locals


I found that info here.


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## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

Finally. After 5 phone calls and 1 missed appointment the tech finally came out and realigned my dish from the crappy install 2 weeks ago. On 103B I went from

103b
12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 X X
0

to
103b
97 96 96 95 95 95 95 93
96 95 95 92 97 92 x x
99 x x x x 98

It took him less then 15 min and needless to say all the new channels now come in fine!!!


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## techrep (Sep 15, 2007)

robdec said:


> Finally. After 5 phone calls and 1 missed appointment the tech finally came out and realigned my dish from the crappy install 2 weeks ago. On 103B I went from
> 
> 103b
> 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
> ...


:biggthump


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

robdec said:


> Finally. After 5 phone calls and 1 missed appointment the tech finally came out and realigned my dish from the crappy install 2 weeks ago......


Great sig's there, robdec! Do you know what kind of dish and LNB you have?


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

I just got off the phone with tech support asking about what I consider low signal strength. One suggestion he has was that if you have rg59 cable it could be a problem as oppossed to the RG6.

Any comments from anyone out there on this?

I think I may in fact have RG59 cable running from my multiswitch to the the box but not sure.


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## robdec (Jul 13, 2007)

Im not sure on the dish or LNB. I just know its a 5lb dish. Ill snap a photo of it for you in the morning.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

robdec said:


> Im not sure on the dish or LNB. I just know its a 5lb dish. Ill snap a photo of it for you in the morning.


The LNB brand is gonna be on a small label. You probably can't get to it now.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Steve Robertson said:


> I just got off the phone with tech support asking about what I consider low signal strength. One suggestion he has was that if you have rg59 cable it could be a problem as oppossed to the RG6.
> 
> Any comments from anyone out there on this?
> 
> I think I may in fact have RG59 cable running from my multiswitch to the the box but not sure.


It's usually printed right on the wire, which, if it's RG-59, is going to be a little skinnier than RG-6. It's really OK for shorter runs unless it's been buried, stapled to studs in the wall, _really_ old, etc.

Quick test: Swap it out temporarily with a standard length run of the RG-6 they sell at Lowe's/HD, etc. Just run it through a window or out of a door. It's not for long-term use, but if you have basically the same sig #'s, it might save you the trouble of installing new RG-6 to a difficult location unnecessarily.

Where are your tp #'s anyway? Are they in this thread?


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

Southeast Michigan

103a:

*1-6:* 73 00 74 85 69 82
*17*: 00

103b:

*1-8*: 95 74 93 75 92 79 89 79
*9-14*: 91 79 90 80 91 80
*17 & 22*: 96 95


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> It's usually printed right on the wire, which, if it's RG-59, is going to be a little skinnier than RG-6. It's really OK for shorter runs unless it's been buried, stapled to studs in the wall, _really_ old, etc.
> 
> Quick test: Swap it out temporarily with a standard length run of the RG-6 they sell at Lowe's/HD, etc. Just run it through a window or out of a door. It's not for long-term use, but if you have basically the same sig #'s, it might save you the trouble of installing new RG-6 to a difficult location unnecessarily.
> 
> Where are your tp #'s anyway? Are they in this thread?


Well I do have the RG6 cable so I guess that is not my problem. This AM my readings with cloudy skies are

88, 88, 69, 74, 77, 80, 72, 80
79,82,76,82,86,91
97,97

I know these aren't bad #'s but others in my area are reporting mid to high 90's across the board.

So any ideas or should I even be concerned with these readings?

Thanks again


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Steady Teddy said:


> Southeast Michigan
> 
> 103a:
> 
> ...


Your Detroit HD locals come from one or two transponders on 103(a) and you should see those one or two in the 90s - your top signal strength on 103(a) is a little low.
Your signals on 103(b) are good but show the odd/even discrepancy which seems to be linked to very slight mis-alignment.
None of these signals are low enough to get DirecTV out to realign your dish. You may be able to improve on the signals if you do your own alignment but this won't improve your picture at all, just give you maybe a little more resistance to rainfade. Unless your dish is really easy to access, I suggest you just leave things as they are unless you have a problem.


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## Steady Teddy (Jan 23, 2007)

texasbrit said:


> Your Detroit HD locals come from one or two transponders on 103(a) and you should see those one or two in the 90s - your top signal strength on 103(a) is a little low.
> Your signals on 103(b) are good but show the odd/even discrepancy which seems to be linked to very slight mis-alignment.
> None of these signals are low enough to get DirecTV out to realign your dish. You may be able to improve on the signals if you do your own alignment but this won't improve your picture at all, just give you maybe a little more resistance to rainfade. Unless your dish is really easy to access, I suggest you just leave things as they are unless you have a problem.


Thanks. Actually, the only reason I bothered to post my readings was because I had complete signal loss of all the new HD channels early this morning.

I dunno what happened. There was no severe weather (AFAIK) and I was able to get all new channels without any problems since they were launched this week. I was looking for someone to start a thread about signal loss in my area to see if I wasn't the only one.

All channels appear to be back up now but I have no idea what happened.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Steve Robertson said:


> Well I do have the RG6 cable so I guess that is not my problem. This AM my readings with cloudy skies are
> 
> 88, 88, 69, 74, 77, 80, 72, 80
> 79,82,76,82,86,91
> ...


Well those _are_ kind of wierd readings. There's no odd/even disparity, but the range from high to low is really unusually wide. I'm sure you'll be OK for now, but I would keep an eye on that. It would be interesting to see where they all maxed out if you did a minor re-alignment. What kind of LNB is on that dish? I've yet to see numbers quite like that...I assume they're repeatable and not a one-time reading.


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## moonman (Oct 27, 2004)

Hi everyone....with the advent of the new H/D channels, I thought I would share my recent experience....on the day of the "big event" I started to get
"searching for satellite" errors on several channels. Just the day before, I did
a signal level test, and all the sats. were in the hi-90's with a few 100's.
When I tested on Wed. all sats again showed similar readings EXCEPT tuner-2
readings which were in the toilet(30's-40's zero's)...this caused me to suspect
my HR 20-700 had a bad tuner line on line 2..this turned out to be false.
The real culprit as it turned out, was a faulty LNB assembly on the slimline dish.
which was just installed last Nov. Further research turned up some evidence
that these earlier dishes had a problem with bad LNB's. I noticed that the
replacement LNB assembly, has a curved head look much like the dish face itself, instead of the "old" one which had a straight across look. FWIW


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