# Hyped about 4k Directv but then.....



## KoRn (Oct 21, 2008)

They just killed it for me. We have Choice XTRA and I am not willing to move up to Premier or Ultimate. WTF was Directv thinking? I have zero interest in the movie channels. Especially since we have Amazon and Netflix for streaming movies. They both also have 4k content as well that we watch. Our bill is $136 a month now as it is with Directv. TV is a luxury. I get it. And I can afford to pay the price. But, man it gets to a point. When is enough enough you know what I mean? I really hope Directv removes this requirement in the future. They are just cheating themselves out of 4k customers like myself that want it. But, not willing to move up to 1 of the 2 highest tiered packages being offered. We are also out of contract and have been for the last 8 months or so. We have a HR44 and my understanding a HR54 is needed along with some kind of little client that goes with it I believe.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

KoRn said:


> They just killed it for me. We have Choice XTRA and I am not willing to move up to Premier or Ultimate. WTF was Directv thinking? I have zero interest in the movie channels. Especially since we have Amazon and Netflix for streaming movies. They both also have 4k content as well that we watch. Our bill is $136 a month now as it is with Directv. TV is a luxury. I get it. And I can afford to pay the price. But, man it gets to a point. When is enough enough you know what I mean? I really hope Directv removes this requirement in the future. They are just cheating themselves out of 4k customers like myself that want it. But, not willing to move up to 1 of the 2 highest tiered packages being offered. We are also out of contract and have been for the last 8 months or so. We have a HR44 and my understanding a HR54 is needed along with some kind of little client that goes with it I believe.


Why did they want you to move UP to the higher packages ?


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## KoRn (Oct 21, 2008)

Directv's press release says it is a requirement to get 4k tv if you want it. Also here http://www.directv.com/technology/4k?LinkID=je6NUbpObpQ-EUTpNh4F3uqrGOvFpCMxUQ&CMP=LEC-rpro-CD-CPA-apn-0-0-0-10091410&ctcampaign=3343&ctkwd=je6NUbpObpQ&ctmatch=10&ctcreative=1&LinkID=je6NUbpObpQ-wyl31x4ja8hk1xuq5rtKHg&CMP=LEC-rpro-CD-CPA-apn-0-0-0-10091410&ctcampaign=3343&ctkwd=je6NUbpObpQ&ctmatch=10&ctcreative=1


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The subscription level is a requirement to watch the specific Masters Golf content mentioned.
4K is available to subscribers to lesser packages. Just not the Masters content.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

KoRn said:


> Directv's press release says it is a requirement to get 4k tv if you want it. Also here http://www.directv.com/technology/4k?LinkID=je6NUbpObpQ-EUTpNh4F3uqrGOvFpCMxUQ&CMP=LEC-rpro-CD-CPA-apn-0-0-0-10091410&ctcampaign=3343&ctkwd=je6NUbpObpQ&ctmatch=10&ctcreative=1&LinkID=je6NUbpObpQ-wyl31x4ja8hk1xuq5rtKHg&CMP=LEC-rpro-CD-CPA-apn-0-0-0-10091410&ctcampaign=3343&ctkwd=je6NUbpObpQ&ctmatch=10&ctcreative=1


OHHH !! But that is "ONLY" for a VERY LIMITED number of channels in those packages.
What channels are you trying to get in 4-K ?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

James Long said:


> The subscription level is a requirement to watch the specific Masters Golf content mentioned.
> 4K is available to subscribers to lesser packages. Just not the Masters content.


Not the way I read it. Seems that linear tv requires the higher packages period. On demand is for anyone with the equipment.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

KoRn said:


> They just killed it for me. We have Choice XTRA and I am not willing to move up to Premier or Ultimate. WTF was Directv thinking? I have zero interest in the movie channels. Especially since we have Amazon and Netflix for streaming movies. They both also have 4k content as well that we watch. Our bill is $136 a month now as it is with Directv. TV is a luxury. I get it. And I can afford to pay the price. But, man it gets to a point. When is enough enough you know what I mean? I really hope Directv removes this requirement in the future. They are just cheating themselves out of 4k customers like myself that want it. But, not willing to move up to 1 of the 2 highest tiered packages being offered. We are also out of contract and have been for the last 8 months or so. We have a HR44 and my understanding a HR54 is needed along with some kind of little client that goes with it I believe.


packages or not you were going to need new equipment.... as is almost everyone... i would not worry or speculate about any of this until we see more than 1 or 2 more channels. the higher packages may be for now to slow the rollout since they have alot of equipment to upgrade...


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## davahad (Jun 2, 2007)

It would be great if DirecTV just offered real HD much less 4K. 4K will be more like what full HD should be now vs. the bit starved version they offer to cram more channels with less resolution.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Not the way I read it. Seems that linear tv requires the higher packages period. On demand is for anyone with the equipment.


There is no linear 4K TV other than the Masters, so that's all the announcement of needing higher level packages covers. They mentioned the Audience channel will be broadcast in 4K, but haven't given a date.

No way is Directv going to make that a requirement on a permanent basis, but I can see why they might want to do it initially. They may not have enough HR54s and C61Ks to go around for all the looky-loos who will want to upgrade if it is free/cheap, but may not be interested in 4K in the long term. When they start installing reverse band LNBs for 4K customers that will be another thing that will probably be in short supply at first. Limiting it to only the high end packages initially reduces the demand so there aren't shortages.

I hope everyone realizes the odds are extremely high that they will eventually charge people who want 4K service a fee, just like they did with HD. They would have a hard time justifying it when there is only the Audience channel and a few specials, but eventually there will be a $10/month 4K fee. Anyone know when Directv began broadcasting the first full time HD channels, when the $10/month HD fee started, and how many HD channels there were at that time?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

davahad said:


> It would be great if DirecTV just offered real HD much less 4K. 4K will be more like what full HD should be now vs. the bit starved version they offer to cram more channels with less resolution.


DirecTV does broadcast at one of the highest bitrates of any provider . 4K will be 4k Everyone appears to be skipping full HD (1080P)


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

compnurd said:


> DirecTV does broadcast at one of the highest bitrates of any provider . 4K will be 4k Everyone appears to be skipping full HD (1080P)


No one is 'skipping' 1080p, there were never any broadcast standards around it. HD is 720p and 1080i. 1080i is essentially the same thing as 1080p30 anyway. Broadcast studios would have needed huge upgrades to handle 1080p60, and outside of sports no one cares about the difference between 30fps and 60fps. It isn't like Big Bang Theory would look better broadcast in 1080p60 rather than 1080i.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> There is no linear 4K TV other than the Masters, so that's all the announcement of needing higher level packages covers. They mentioned the Audience channel will be broadcast in 4K, but haven't given a date.
> 
> No way is Directv going to make that a requirement on a permanent basis, but I can see why they might want to do it initially. They may not have enough HR54s and C61Ks to go around for all the looky-loos who will want to upgrade if it is free/cheap, but may not be interested in 4K in the long term. When they start installing reverse band LNBs for 4K customers that will be another thing that will probably be in short supply at first. Limiting it to only the high end packages initially reduces the demand so there aren't shortages.
> 
> I hope everyone realizes the odds are extremely high that they will eventually charge people who want 4K service a fee, just like they did with HD. They would have a hard time justifying it when there is only the Audience channel and a few specials, but eventually there will be a $10/month 4K fee. Anyone know when Directv began broadcasting the first full time HD channels, when the $10/month HD fee started, and how many HD channels there were at that time?


"The new DIRECTV 4K channel, which launches in April as part of the DIRECTV ULTIMATE and PREMIER™ Packages, includes unique 4K UHD content from AUDIENCE Network, documentaries and more."

The above is from the press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/att-puts-golf-fans-on-the-green-at-the-masters-with-first-live-4k-ultra-hd-broadcast-on-directv-300233352.html


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

So let me see if I understand this...

Right now, I have 1 outlet, 1 4K TV, 1 HR24 + Preferred Xtra + NO RSN + NO WHDVR, just grandfathered $10 + $10 HD + DVR.

So, if I want 4K, I need to:

1) upgrade to an HR54 $299? (might be able to get a free upgrade)
2) add a C61K $99? (might be able to get a free upgrade)
3) $99 service call to convert my system to SWIM (might be able to get that waived)
4) add C61K as a 2nd outlet +$7/mo
5) add WHDVR +$3/mo
6a) upgrade to ultimate -- AT LEAST +$10/mo
6b) upgrading to ultimate adds the RSN fee back in -- +$3.65/mo

So... I'll have to shell out $500 which may be partially waived, but I doubt they'd waive all the pieces...
AND on top of that, my bill will go up around $25/mo

And for Pete's (I was going to use a different 4 letter word, but this is a PG forum ) sake... its not even a good solution in the end. I either have to watch full time through the C61K (which is a poor experience when compared to watching it directly on the server) or I have to switch back and forth on the inputs.

Like, whats the problem? Release a HR64 or whatever that has a HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2A output and that immediately gets rid of #2 & #4.

Ladies and gentleman, lets give a big hand to our new "Biggest Scumbag Company" champ!, a title previously held by my BMW dealership who marks up parts 3x & service 2x.

#5, 6 & 6A are downright dispicable.

#5 they'll never get rid of... 6/6A they might get rid of down the road...

$500 + $25/mo extra to watch AUDIENCE in 4K... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


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## 242424 (Mar 22, 2012)

SledgeHammer said:


> So let me see if I understand this...
> 
> Right now, I have 1 outlet, 1 4K TV, 1 HR24 + Preferred Xtra + NO RSN + NO WHDVR, just grandfathered $10 + $10 HD + DVR.
> 
> ...


Don't forget you get a brand new 2 year contract! lol


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

Not saying all is OK but if you want 4K then you need equipment capable of 4K - so a lot of that you need to upgrade. Getting equipment capable isn't a making you do something from a marketing standpoint - you need the capability. It is like saying your "old" TV which only did 480i should be able to display 4K without you having to upgrade to a 4k TV. If you want 4k you have to pay for the technical capability.
You want the channel that has 4k - you have to have the package that contains that channel.


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

They didn't fully announce everything yet, it's possible that it will also be available in the unadvertised Preferred Xtra package and even the grandfathered Choice Xtra Classic. Even in announcements for non-4K additions they never mention that package.

Like mentioned above the ONLY thing that has been announced is the DirecTV 4K channel that will be showing the Masters in 4K and other content from the Audience Network, there's no word at all on what package level will be required for any future linear 4K channels or what those channels will be.



> Like, whats the problem? Release a HR64 or whatever that has a HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2A output and that immediately gets rid of #2 & #4.


Considering that you didn't jump on the Genie and are only using a HR24, you seem to be someone willing to wait. The release did say "HR54 or higher", so maybe there's something coming down the road. Unless you really want to see the masters in 4K there's no reason for you to rush. You might want to wait for more linear channel announcements to see if there's something worthwhile in the near future. Like when HD first cameout the only things there were Discovery HD Theater, HBO HD, ESPN HD, HDNet and HDNet Movies.

Either way though, you're going to need to eventually convert to SWM if you want 4K since Hx2x's do not support 4K and Genies are SWM only, and the chances of a "HR64" having 7 RF inputs to support legacy switches are slim to none.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

CTJon said:


> CTJon, on 14 Mar 2016 - 2:13 PM, said:
> 
> Not saying all is OK but if you want 4K then you need equipment capable of 4K - so a lot of that you need to upgrade. Getting equipment capable isn't a making you do something from a marketing standpoint - you need the capability. It is like saying your "old" TV which only did 480i should be able to display 4K without you having to upgrade to a 4k TV. If you want 4k you have to pay for the technical capability.
> You want the channel that has 4k - you have to have the package that contains that channel.


I'm not against needing to upgrade my equipment. That is obvious that I need to. My problem is 1) that I need to go through the C61K because they don't have a HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 server 2) all the ramifications that entails (less quality experience, double outlet fee, WHDVR fee) 3) being forced to upgrade to ultimate and all the ramifications that has (higher package fee + RSN fee).

I expect a 4K fee when the smoke clears, but making me take a higher package AND a RSN fee AND a WHDVR fee?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

KyL416 said:


> They didn't fully announce everything yet, it's possible that it will also be available in the unadvertised Preferred Xtra package and even the grandfathered Choice Xtra Classic. Even in announcements for non-4K additions they never mention that package.
> 
> Like mentioned above the ONLY thing that has been announced is the DirecTV 4K channel that will be showing the Masters in 4K and other content from the Audience Network, there's no word at all on what package level will be required for any future linear 4K channels or what those channels will be.
> 
> ...


I haven't jumped on the Genie because I have no use for it. I have a single TV at this time and need more then 2 tuners, I'd say once or twice a year. I rarely reboot my box, so the faster CPU isn't that big of a deal.

I already have a 4K TV (an OLED in fact) and a 4K AVR and I'll be getting a 4K UHD BluRay player when they come out, so I'm not "a wait forever guy" .

My main complaint is lack of a 4K server. I have zero interest in golf, so I'm not taking them up on this offer . I'd also like to see them release a non-Genie 4K box for single TV households, etc. I know... that's not going to happen. Definitely will switch providers if it means upgrading my package and adding the RSN fee on top of all the other fees.


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## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Yea but....the website indicates "Virtually 4 times the resolution of 1080p HD". That must mean the picture will be in 4320!

Too bad my recent Vizio M60 will only do 2160. It is now outdated less than 6 months after purchase.

What is the definition of "Virtually"....ohh this is not looking good......

I wonder if I can get all the content by throwing a C61 in the house with my recently purchased HR44.....or is the HR44 a "brick" when it comes to 4K? I thought it would be compatible with everything (linear and DOD) when hitched along with a C61.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

"Virtually 4 times the resolution..." is obviously a marketing statement.

4K is in it's infancy. When HD was in it's infancy the cost to get into it was equally high (in fact higher if I recall), so this isn't really a surprise. If you want to be on the bleeding edge, you need to be willing to sustain the cost. And you also need to anticipate equipment evolution over the next 2 or 3 years as linear 4K starts to appear.

Having a 4K television today still gives you the opportunity to use and enjoy some 4K from some sources. But until there are at least a couple of continuous live 4K channels, I would question pursuing equipment and or level of service upgrades to obtain the capability. But that's just me (in fact, I'm going to wait a lot longer than that - regular HD service is more than adequate for my old eyes).

I'm certainly not faulting the early adopters, but that is where we are at with 4K - the early adoption stage.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

4K *is* 4x the resolution of 1080p. 1080P is 1920 x 1080 while 4K (as far as us mere mortals are concerned) is 3840 x 2160. So you can fit *4* 1080P screens in a single 4K screen (2 x 2). 4K has 4x the pixels of 1080P.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

SledgeHammer said:


> My main complaint is lack of a 4K server. I have zero interest in golf, so I'm not taking them up on this offer . I'd also like to see them release a non-Genie 4K box for single TV households, etc. I know... that's not going to happen. Definitely will switch providers if it means upgrading my package and adding the RSN fee on top of all the other fees.


They may never release a 4K Genie. From what they've been saying about their future plans, it sounds like the future is a 'Genie' that has no video output at all, and every TV is connected via a client. That next gen Genie with no video output wouldn't incur a per TV fee, so single TV households wouldn't end up paying an extra $7 like they currently do.


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## reubenray (Jun 27, 2002)

All of these extra costs is one reason I may jump to Dish Network when I call this week for the Mover's Plan. I will get a new 4k TV next week, but I am not interested in watching 4K from Directv if I have to jump to a higher program package. I am paying $116 for two TV's and that is to much. I do want a HR44 to replace my buggy HR34. If D* tries to charge me for this or anything else I plan on telling to keep everything the way it is until my contract runs out and I will jump to Dish. I may even do this if D* does not offer me any discounts for a long time user.

I was looking forward to the 4k offerings from D* but not at the $25+ a month cost to do this. I also have no use for the Ultimate or Premier packages.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

codespy said:


> Yea but....the website indicates "Virtually 4 times the resolution of 1080p HD". That must mean the picture will be in 4320!
> 
> Too bad my recent Vizio M60 will only do 2160. It is now outdated less than 6 months after purchase.
> 
> ...


For the mathematically challenged, 1080p resolution is 1920 x 1080, which is 2,073,600 pixels. The best 4K resolution (2160p) is 3840 x 2160, which is 8,294,400 pixels, which is exactly 4 times the number of pixels of the highest HD resolution. I do not understand your concern. Your Vizio M60 will display 4K TV at 4 times the resolution of 1080p HD.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

reubenray said:


> All of these extra costs is one reason I may jump to Dish Network when I call this week for the Mover's Plan. I will get a new 4k TV next week, but I am not interested in watching 4K from Directv if I have to jump to a higher program package. I am paying $116 for two TV's and that is to much. I do want a HR44 to replace my buggy HR34. If D* tries to charge me for this or anything else I plan on telling to keep everything the way it is until my contract runs out and I will jump to Dish. I may even do this if D* does not offer me any discounts for a long time user.
> 
> I was looking forward to the 4k offerings from D* but not at the $25+ a month cost to do this. I also have no use for the Ultimate or Premier packages.


You always get a better deal jumping between providers than being loyal. It may not be fair but that's how it is with everyone, not just Directv, and it makes sense if you consider human nature. People generally don't like change, and for most the idea of "switching" sounds like a pain and they'll pay more to avoid that change. It is only when the price difference gets really large that they are willing to jump. Providers have to offer great new customer deals to get people to overcome that resistance to change - hoping that once they are on board that same inertia will keep them from switching again when their contract is up.

That's not true for everyone, some people would switch to save $2/month, and others switch just because they can get the latest equipment but they're in a minority. If everyone did that then Directv and everyone else would have to revamp the way they do their pricing.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

codespy said:


> Yea but....the website indicates "Virtually 4 times the resolution of 1080p HD". That must mean the picture will be in 4320!


Using common core math?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

codespy said:


> Yea but....the website indicates "Virtually 4 times the resolution of 1080p HD". That must mean* the picture will be in 4320!*
> ....


before count something, lets set what we are counting
- vertical resolution ?
- horizontal resolution ?
- pixel's count ?
- what else ?!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

davahad said:


> It would be great if DirecTV just offered real HD much less 4K. 4K will be more like what full HD should be now vs. the bit starved version they offer to cram more channels with less resolution.


That's something we gave up on a long time ago. 1080p seems to a lost concept when it comes to D*, unless you want to pay PPV prices for movies. Doesn't it seem strange that they can put out PPV in 1080p, but not in regular content after all this time? 1080p upscales beautifully on my 4K set when I use a streaming box.

Rich


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## daisydog6 (Jun 11, 2009)

I remember when DirecTV used to give loyalty rewards. Now they're as bad as anyone else. Why has this become the norm, to screw your most loyal customers to reward jumpers?

This year's price hike is my last-- I'm dumping them for Play Station Vue.


slice1900 said:


> You always get a better deal jumping between providers than being loyal. It may not be fair but that's how it is with everyone, not just Directv, and it makes sense if you consider human nature. People generally don't like change, and for most the idea of "switching" sounds like a pain and they'll pay more to avoid that change. It is only when the price difference gets really large that they are willing to jump. Providers have to offer great new customer deals to get people to overcome that resistance to change - hoping that once they are on board that same inertia will keep them from switching again when their contract is up.
> 
> That's not true for everyone, some people would switch to save $2/month, and others switch just because they can get the latest equipment but they're in a minority. If everyone did that then Directv and everyone else would have to revamp the way they do their pricing.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

Rich said:


> That's something we gave up on a long time ago. 1080p seems to a lost concept when it comes to D*, unless you want to pay PPV prices for movies. Doesn't it seem strange that they can put out PPV in 1080p, but not in regular content after all this time? 1080p upscales beautifully on my 4K set when I use a streaming box.
> 
> Rich


It is not just D*. No linear channels are offered in 1080p, and that is not likely to change.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Again, why do people care about getting programming in 1080p? Most TVs already convert 1080i to 1080p30. Since almost everything aside from sports is shot in 30 fps or less (yes, even programs shown on 720p networks are usually shot at 30 fps) you would hardly notice the difference if networks did broadcast in 1080p.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Again, why do people care about getting programming in 1080p? Most TVs already convert 1080i to 1080p30. Since almost everything aside from sports is shot in 30 fps or less (yes, even programs shown on 720p networks are usually shot at 30 fps) you would hardly notice the difference if networks did broadcast in 1080p.


True I guess ....

Since pretty much for the heck of it outside of faster HDMI resyncing on channel changes, I have my OTA TIVO set to upscale everything to [email protected] fps (except for [email protected] fps native programming which is set for pass-through).

But I must admit nothing really looks any different ... 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

Are you guys sure the HR54 is needed to watch the Masters in 4k? When they did the test feed on channel 9800 for the Northern Trust golf tournament I was able to receive it flawlessly on my HR44.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jstang said:


> Are you guys sure *the HR54 is needed to watch the Masters in 4k*? When they did the test feed on channel 9800 for the Northern Trust golf tournament I was able to receive it flawlessly on my HR44.


[!] many times been posted in different threads an URL to dtv's page with the requirement


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

jstang said:


> Are you guys sure the HR54 is needed to watch the Masters in 4k? When they did the test feed on channel 9800 for the Northern Trust golf tournament I was able to receive it flawlessly on my HR44.


See the link to DIRECTV's page in post #3 of this thread.


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

trh said:


> See the link to DIRECTV's page in post #3 of this thread.


Yes, I see that they list it as required but why was I able to view the test channel with the HR44?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

fleckrj said:


> It is not just D*. No linear channels are offered in 1080p, and that is not likely to change.


why not ?

as 4k-Lite


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

jstang said:


> Yes, I see that they list it as required but why was I able to view the test channel with the HR44?


because you jumped ahead and did mimic yourself as CE participant


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

jstang said:


> Yes, I see that they list it as required but why was I able to view the test channel with the HR44?


Since I'm not affiliated with DIRECTV and I am not well versed with 4K, I'd have to guess that your 4K TV upscaled your reception from that test channel.

Everything I've read here is that it will take an HR54 and for some situations, the C61 mini (but I'm not clear exactly when that mini will work).

And now their page advertising 4K says the same thing.


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

trh said:


> Since I'm not affiliated with DIRECTV and I am not well versed with 4K, I'd have to guess that your 4K TV upscaled your reception from that test channel.
> 
> Everything I've read here is that it will take an HR54 and for some situations, the C61 mini (but I'm not clear exactly when that mini will work).
> 
> And now their page advertising 4K says the same thing.


The 61 is 100% required. The HR54 does not output 4K.

The test channel for the northern trust did not wind up being a HR54 requirement


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

compnurd said:


> The 61 is 100% required. The HR54 does not output 4K.
> 
> The test channel for the northern trust did not wind up being a HR54 requirement


Or an RVU correct?


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

jstang said:


> Or an RVU correct?


Correct


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## n3vino (Oct 2, 2011)

Rich said:


> That's something we gave up on a long time ago. 1080p seems to a lost concept when it comes to D*, unless you want to pay PPV prices for movies. Doesn't it seem strange that they can put out PPV in 1080p, but not in regular content after all this time? 1080p upscales beautifully on my 4K set when I use a streaming box.
> 
> Rich


Blue Ray 1080p movies look really nice on my daughter's 3D 24K tv. Better than on my 1080P LCD, and blue rays look very good on my set. 3D also looks really good on her set. D* looks nicer on my 1080P than on her set, but I guess that her set has to work harder to upscale 1080i and 720p.

The truth of the matter is that you have to pay extra to enjoy 24K viewing. Sad, but true. I'm trying to get her to try Netflix or Amazon on the 24K, since I already have those two options.


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

Would I be able to upgrade to the ultimate package just for the masters and then go back down to my current plan? If so, would they just pro-rate those 4 days?


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

n3vino said:


> Blue Ray 1080p movies look really nice on my daughter's 3D 24K tv. Better than on my 1080P LCD, and blue rays look very good on my set. 3D also looks really good on her set. D* looks nicer on my 1080P than on her set, but I guess that her set has to work harder to upscale 1080i and 720p.
> 
> The truth of the matter is that you have to pay extra to enjoy 24K viewing. Sad, but true. I'm trying to get her to try Netflix or Amazon on the 24K, since I already have those two options.


Where can I get a 24K tv.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

jstang said:


> Are you guys sure the HR54 is needed to watch the Masters in 4k? When they did the test feed on channel 9800 for the Northern Trust golf tournament I was able to receive it flawlessly on my HR44.


Since it won't be using bonded transponders, technically an HR34/HR44 would be _able_ to receive the broadcast and feed it to a C61K or 4K RVU TV. However, Directv could code the software so the HR54 is the only one that is allowed to do so - to avoid the confusion it might cause if HR44s worked for some 4K channels but down the road stopped working when they begin using bonded transponders.

If you try it, let us know what you find.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

slice, all 4k transmissions happened without bonding or reverse band; I wouldn't include it into current puzzles: HR44 or HR54 only, CE or not-CE, etc


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> slice, all 4k transmissions happened without bonding or reverse band; I wouldn't include it into current puzzles: HR44 or HR54 only, CE or not-CE, etc


CE'rs and others using CE firmware should understand that the requirements used in testing may not match the actual requirements when the product is released.

DIRECTV can set any restrictions that they want. Their published restriction for the live channel is the HR54 and Ultimate or above subscription level. The reason why they chose those restrictions (whether it be to "future proof" for bonded transponders or simply to limit the rush for upgrades to their highest paying customers) was not part of the announcement.

If DIRECTV chooses to "plan for the future" and not allow anything less than a HR54 so they eventually can do bonded it makes sense to do so.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

we are talking about _current_ 4k channel requirement


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

yosoyellobo said:


> Where can I get a 24K tv.


Try PC Richards, they'll promise you anything. And even sell you an extended warranty on it. :rolling:

Rich


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## yosoyellobo (Nov 1, 2006)

Rich said:


> Try PC Richards, they'll promise you anything. And even sell you an extended warranty on it. :rolling:
> 
> Rich


Be the first one on your block to get one.


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

So I called Directv after work to see what I could do about upgrading my HR44 to an HR54 without having to pay $299.00. They offered to come to the house and upgrade the HR44 to an HR54, upgrade both of my C31 minis to C61's in case I get 4K tvs in the future and swap out my RVU to a C61 for $100.00.

It helps that I just had them out to the house about a month ago to install the RVU client and I told them that they should have told me at that time that the HR54 would be required. 

And to think, when I called last night the guy wouldn't even give me a price break to change from RVU to C61. Just goes to show that it all depends on who you talk to and how much they want to help. 4K Masters here I come!

Oh yeah, I also had to renew my 2 year contract which I am fine with.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

jstang said:


> So I called Directv after work to see what I could do about upgrading my HR44 to an HR54 without having to pay $299.00. They offered to come to the house and upgrade the HR44 to an HR54, upgrade both of my C31 minis to C61's in case I get 4K tvs in the future and swap out my RVU to a C61 for $100.00.
> 
> It helps that I just had them out to the house about a month ago to install the RVU client and I told them that they should have told me at that time that the HR54 would be required.
> 
> ...


Great deal, but a bit too good I'm afraid ....

As I don't think they can swap out the two C31s for C61Ks before you have 4K TVs to hook them to.

AIUI, in order to close a work order after installing a C61K the TV it's hooked to have to pass the 4K compatibility test. Which it won't be able to of course since there is no 4K set there to begin with.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

HoTat2 said:


> Great deal, but a bit too good I'm afraid ....
> As I don't think they can swap out the two C31s for C61Ks before you have 4K TVs to hook them to.
> AIUI, in order to close a work order after installing a C61K the TV it's hooked to have to pass the 4K compatibility test. Which it won't be able to of course since there is no 4K set there to begin with.
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Getting the C61's to replace the C31's was an added bonus. If they can't replace them, not a big deal since I won't be buying anymore 4K tv's unless something breaks.

I would have been just as happy if they would have just offered to swap out the HR54 for $100.00. I'm still not sure if I want to stick with the RVU or go with the C61. Lots of mixed reviews out there.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

P Smith said:


> we are talking about _current_ 4k channel requirement


We are talking about DIRECTV's requirement for watching 4K linear channels. As published by DirecTV that is the HR54 and Ultimate or above.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

That's right, hence my point - keep out the RB and bonding of current requirement, as the DTV page stated.


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## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

jstang said:


> Getting the C61's to replace the C31's was an added bonus. If they can't replace them, not a big deal since I won't be buying anymore 4K tv's unless something breaks.
> I would have been just as happy if they would have just offered to swap out the HR54 for $100.00. I'm still not sure if I want to stick with the RVU or go with the C61. Lots of mixed reviews out there.


I had the HR 54 and the RVU installed a few days ago. The 54 is great but the RVU in the BR is far from it. FF and Rewind on recorded programs are very slow and choppy. Also the guide looks washed out, dull. The tech definetley agreed but couldn't fix the issue after quite some time. Guide on the 54 is sharp as it was on the C41 I had before. Have another service call upcoming to replace RVU with the 61.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

did you try use direct connection from all devices via 1Gb switch ?


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## janthony6 (Nov 17, 2014)

that's just how RVU is. Picture quality is great but the guide doesn't look as good as the guide on a box. There is no fix for that unless DTV updates the guide for it's RVU clients.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

P Smith said:


> did you try use direct connection from all devices via 1Gb switch ?


I changed out all my switches to Gigabit (my spell checker says that's the correct spelling) switches and the difference in my home network was amazing. A good tip for everyone.

Rich


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## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

jstang said:


> So I called Directv after work to see what I could do about upgrading my HR44 to an HR54 without having to pay $299.00. They offered to come to the house and upgrade the HR44 to an HR54, upgrade both of my C31 minis to C61's in case I get 4K tvs in the future and swap out my RVU to a C61 for $100.00.
> It helps that I just had them out to the house about a month ago to install the RVU client and I told them that they should have told me at that time that the HR54 would be required.
> And to think, when I called last night the guy wouldn't even give me a price break to change from RVU to C61. Just goes to show that it all depends on who you talk to and how much they want to help. 4K Masters here I come!
> Oh yeah, I also had to renew my 2 year contract which I am fine with.


Was looking to upgrade as well. So with the HR 54 in the living room and C61 in the bedroom, we'll be able to watch the new 4K channel or 4K videoes from both locations?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

ep1974 said:


> Was looking to upgrade as well. So with the HR 54 in the living room and C61 in the bedroom, we'll be able to watch the new 4K channel or 4K videoes from both locations?


Is the HR-54 Genie, 4-K ?


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

ragweed10 said:


> Is the HR-54 Genie, 4-K ?


No, you need a C61K or RVU client hooked up to your 4k tv. The HR-54 is required in order to receive 4k programming.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

jstang said:


> No, you need a C61K or RVU client hooked up to your 4k tv. The HR-54 is required in order to receive 4k programming.


EP 1974 Was looking to upgrade as well. So with the HR 54 in the living room and C61 in the bedroom, we'll be able to watch the new 4K channel or 4K videos from both locations? 
So, EP 1974, wouldn't be able to have 4-K on both of his TV's ??


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

ep1974 said:


> Was looking to upgrade as well. So with the HR 54 in the living room and C61 in the bedroom, we'll be able to watch the new 4K channel or 4K videoes from both locations?


activate RVU on one 4k TV, and use c61k for other 4k tv (who is using such config ?)


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## compnurd (Apr 23, 2007)

ragweed10 said:


> EP 1974 Was looking to upgrade as well. So with the HR 54 in the living room and C61 in the bedroom, we'll be able to watch the new 4K channel or 4K videos from both locations?
> So, EP 1974, wouldn't be able to have 4-K on both of his TV's ??


No The HR54 does NOT output 4K It is required to receive the reverse band transponders.. You will still need a C61 or RVU for the 4K TV.. Think of the HR-54 as a media gateway in this instance


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

compnurd said:


> No The HR54 does NOT output 4K It is required to receive the reverse band transponders..


The HR54 is required to receive _bonded_ transponders. Any HD receiver can receive reverse band transponders.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> activate RVU on one 4k TV, and use c61k for other 4k tv (who is using such config ?)


Except that the HR54 can only handle one 4K stream at a time. So still only a single 4K TV viewing at a time.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

I wonder how they will do 4k on the new AT&T central hub gateway?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

HoTat2 said:


> Except that the HR54 can only handle one 4K stream at a time. So still only a single 4K TV viewing at a time.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


well, then you could use one tv in certain time and be happy


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

compnurd said:


> No The HR54 does NOT output 4K *It is required to receive the reverse band transponders*.. You will still need a C61 or RVU for the 4K TV.. Think of the HR-54 as a media gateway in this instance


really ? for what ?
I would imagine in a future, but now ?! ... wait for 3 more years, yeah !


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

CraigerM said:


> I wonder how they will do 4k on the new AT&T central hub gateway?


everyone is still wondering ...


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

CraigerM said:


> I wonder how they will do 4k on the new AT&T central hub gateway?


Same way the Genie does now, it will forward to clients. That's how it will do HD and SD also.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Same way the Genie does now, it will forward to clients. That's how it will do HD and SD also.


But at how many simultaneous 4K streams I wonder?

I know, anyone's guess at this point, but no doubt MoCA 2.0 with channel bonding will be required. ..

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

MoCA 2.0 will probably be used, but I see no reason they'd need channel bonding.

As for number of streams, like you say it is anyone's guess, but it is limited by the number of tuners so with 8 tuner chips there aren't going to be many 4K streams per gateway. Maybe there are newer chips coming out with 16 or 24 DVB-S2 demodulators.

For all I know the Hopper 3 is using a 16 tuner chip instead of two 8 tuner chips. Just because I don't know of any 16 tuner chips doesn't mean they aren't out there. Has anyone on the Dish side opened up their Hopper 3 and taken some hi res photos of the chips inside it?


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## jstang (Feb 19, 2016)

DirecTV came to the house on Sunday to install my HR54. The installer tried very hard to talk me out of getting the HR54 stating that it wouldn't be required. He also didn't know that they are rolling our their first 4k broadcast in a few weeks either. 

I decided to go ahead with the install because if I wake up on the day of the masters and have no 4k broadcast, I won't be happy. I'm a huge golf fan so I'm really excited about this.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Why the heck would he try and talk you out if a hr54? 

And are you using an RVU 4K tv or a c61k?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

1st Problem with a HR-54, it does NOT have the CID feature,
One of the BEST features for slowing down Solicitors. (Many people have Land Lines)
2nd problem, It does NOT have controls on the Unit. 
How do you control it if you loose your remote or the remote breaks ?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

ragweed10 said:


> 1st Problem with a HR-54, it does NOT have the CID feature,
> One of the BEST features for slowing down Solicitors. (Many people have Land Lines)
> 2nd problem, It does NOT have controls on the Unit.
> How do you control it if you loose your remote or the remote breaks ?


Nomorobo. Check it out. It's the real answer to solicitors. That and talking phones who announce who's calling work just as well.

And while I always prefer basic controls on a unit too it's not at all IMHO a reason to consider wanting a different genie over a hr54. The fact the hr54 is the only one that will be doing 4K output is far more
Important to anyone with A 4K tv. And I personally spend $5 and keep a spare remote at home in case I break one. Which isn't really even need if you have more than one tv.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Nomorobo. Check it out. It's the real answer to solicitors. That and talking phones who announce who's calling work just as well.
> 
> And while I always prefer basic controls on a unit too it's not at all IMHO a reason to consider wanting a different genie over a hr54. The fact the hr54 is the only one that will be doing 4K output is far more
> Important to anyone with A 4K tv. And I personally spend $5 and keep a spare remote at home in case I break one. Which isn't really even need if you have more than one tv.


How does the Nomorobo work ? Where do you connect it, what does it do, to tell you the call is from a solicitor ?
Why does DTV tell you the HR-54 does Not output 4-K, You will need a C-61 mini genie ?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

ragweed10 said:


> How does the Nomorobo work ? Where do you connect it, what does it do, to tell you the call is from a solicitor ?
> Why does DTV tell you the HR-54 does Not output 4-K, You will need a C-61 mini genie ?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Nomorobo

Because the HR54 itself does not output 4k.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Nomorobo. Check it out. It's the real answer to solicitors. ...


Unless requirements about that service have changed though, the main problem with Nomorobo is that your phone provider must offer a feature called "simultaneous or multi-line ringing" for it to work. Where you can assign incoming calls to one number ring multiple other numbers at the same time.

Very few providers offer this feature last I checked ...

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

HoTat2 said:


> Unless requirements about that service have changed though, the main problem with Nomorobo is that your phone provider must offer a feature called "simultaneous or multi-line ringing" for it to work. Where you can assign incoming calls to one number ring multiple other numbers at the same time.
> 
> Very few providers offer this feature last I checked ...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


That is True.
To name a few, Vonage, Verizon IP (FIOS Phone), AT&T U-Verse Phone, Time Warner Phone, Cox Phone, offer "Multi Line ringing" 
ALL of these are LAND LINES


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I thought it said that analog land lines don't work with this service?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

trh said:


> I thought it said that analog land lines don't work with this service?


If I read the list correctly, they are not analog land lines. They are VOIP land line service.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

James Long said:


> If I read the list correctly, they are not analog land lines. They are VOIP land line service.


That is right. analog lines do NOT have the "Multi Line ringing" feature.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

James Long said:


> If I read the list correctly, they are not analog land lines. They are VOIP land line service.


we're going off topic
:backtotop:


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

P Smith said:


> we're going off topic
> :backtotop:


Yup, Here we go again.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

P Smith said:


> we're going off topic
> :backtotop:


What was the original topic ?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

It began over the issue of the loss of the phoneline and thus CID service on the HR54.

But I appreciate these temporary OT deversions sometimes rather than having to start an entirely new thread just to answer a few questions.

As I always wondered why I could never find the multi-line ringing feature offered by traditional analog LL providers. 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

Looking forward to 4K. Is the 4K VOD on channel 1102 downloaded off satellite or the internet?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ep1974 said:


> Looking forward to 4K. Is the 4K VOD on channel 1102 downloaded off satellite or the internet?


Satellite ...

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> Satellite ...
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


Thank you. Was just curious, because if it was downloaded off the internet, then would I need 25mbps speed like Netfix and Youtube recommend in order to view?? I believe my speed is around 8 or 10 mbps.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

ep1974 said:


> Thank you. Was just curious, because if it was downloaded off the internet, then would I need 25mbps speed like Netfix and Youtube recommend in order to view?? I believe my speed is around 8 or 10 mbps.


Where did you hear Netflix needs 25 MBPS ?
I have 6 MBPS and Netflix is ""PERFECT"" sometimes better than DTV
Netflix told me 3 MBPS would work Fine.


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## Curtis0620 (Apr 22, 2002)

for 4K?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ragweed10 said:


> Where did you hear Netflix needs 25 MBPS ?
> I have 6 MBPS and Netflix is ""PERFECT"" sometimes better than DTV
> Netflix told me 3 MBPS would work Fine.


I think he means for veiwing 4K programs from NF or YT

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

ragweed10 said:


> Where did you hear Netflix needs 25 MBPS ?
> I have 6 MBPS and Netflix is ""PERFECT"" sometimes better than DTV
> Netflix told me 3 MBPS would work Fine.


I could be wrong but I believe I read that on their website, in order to view 4K.


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## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

jstang said:


> DirecTV came to the house on Sunday to install my HR54. The installer tried very hard to talk me out of getting the HR54 stating that it wouldn't be required. He also didn't know that they are rolling our their first 4k broadcast in a few weeks either.
> 
> I decided to go ahead with the install because if I wake up on the day of the masters and have no 4k broadcast, I won't be happy. I'm a huge golf fan so I'm really excited about this.


Had an installer here a couple of weeks ago and he said you need the HR 54. He also knew about the upcoming Masters broadcast in 4K.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

ep1974 said:


> Had an installer here a couple of weeks ago and he said you need the HR 54. He also knew about the upcoming Masters broadcast in 4K.


this thread is good for reading http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/218833-first-look-directv-c61k-4k-genie-mini-client/


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

I admit I have not been following 4K much at all but I got this email from Solid Signal today that clarifies that I would have to have a new mini to get 4K. NO WAY! I am out. I will never have a mini in my setup EVER!. Seems like such a waste.


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## Riverpilot (Aug 13, 2010)

joshjr said:



> I admit I have not been following 4K much at all but I got this email from Solid Signal today that clarifies that I would have to have a new mini to get 4K. NO WAY! I am out. I will never have a mini in my setup EVER!. Seems like such a waste.


Exactly why myself and many others that I know won't upgrade to Directv 4k as long as the genie only has 5 tuners. It's not enough... Give us 10+ tuners and then a mini could be made to work. As it is now? Nope.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

Riverpilot said:


> Exactly why myself and many others that I know won't upgrade to Directv 4k as long as the genie only has 5 tuners. It's not enough... Give us 10+ tuners and then a mini could be made to work. As it is now? Nope.


The only way I would add a Mini into my mix would be as a test. I'd be happy to test one for them but not interested in having one just for me personally to get 4K. Its absolutely insane that think that none of the Genie's are or will be capable of this. How can the HR54 pass it to the mini but not be capable of doing it, itself? This is ass backwards for sure!

Im also inclined to agree with you on the tuners. I would love to get to 8 tuners or more myself. I make 5 work but man a few more would really be great. FYI, I dont share my Genie. All other rooms in the house have their own DVRs and we dont use Whole Home either. The Genie is my personal DVR thats it period.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

joshjr said:


> The only way I would add a Mini into my mix would be as a test. I'd be happy to test one for them but not interested in having one just for me personally to get 4K. Its absolutely insane that think that none of the Genie's are or will be capable of this. How can the HR54 pass it to the mini but not be capable of doing it, itself? This is ass backwards for sure!
> 
> Im also inclined to agree with you on the tuners. I would love to get to 8 tuners or more myself. I make 5 work but man a few more would really be great. FYI, I dont share my Genie. All other rooms in the house have their own DVRs and we dont use Whole Home either. The Genie is my personal DVR thats it period.


I have been also trying to figure this out.
How can a mini genie produce a 4-K picture, but the MAIN Genie (it passes through) can't ?
Something it missing. ?? 
Also when they do come out with the NEW MAIN Genie with (8) + tuners, they need a bigger Hard Drive.
I will keep my HR-44 if the NEW Genie doesn't have the phone jack for CID. Use it every call !!


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## Hcdavis3 (Mar 22, 2016)

SledgeHammer said:


> I haven't jumped on the Genie because I have no use for it. I have a single TV at this time and need more then 2 tuners, I'd say once or twice a year. I rarely reboot my box, so the faster CPU isn't that big of a deal.
> 
> I already have a 4K TV (an OLED in fact) and a 4K AVR and I'll be getting a 4K UHD BluRay player when they come out, so I'm not "a wait forever guy" .
> 
> My main complaint is lack of a 4K server. I have zero interest in golf, so I'm not taking them up on this offer . I'd also like to see them release a non-Genie 4K box for single TV households, etc. I know... that's not going to happen. Definitely will switch providers if it means upgrading my package and adding the RSN fee on top of all the other fees.


Hey Sledge, you must have the 65 inch LG 9500 or the 55 curved screen. I have a 65 coming Friday from BB. I am praying that the HR 54 and C61s are HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. No 2.0a means no HDR  Can you shed any Light on the HDMI specs for these 2 DTV boxes?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

The HR54 doesn't output 4K at all so it wouldn't need the current HDMI/HDCP specs.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

ragweed10 said:


> I have been also trying to figure this out.
> How can a mini genie produce a 4-K picture, but the MAIN Genie (it passes through) can't ?
> Something it missing. ??
> Also when they do come out with the NEW MAIN Genie with (8) + tuners, they need a bigger Hard Drive.
> I will keep my HR-44 if the NEW Genie doesn't have the phone jack for CID. Use it every call !!


Wow, are you really still using a land line?


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## Hcdavis3 (Mar 22, 2016)

ragweed10 said:


> I have been also trying to figure this out.
> How can a mini genie produce a 4-K picture, but the MAIN Genie (it passes through) can't ?
> Something it missing. ??
> Also when they do come out with the NEW MAIN Genie with (8) + tuners, they need a bigger Hard Drive.
> I will keep my HR-44 if the NEW Genie doesn't have the phone jack for CID. Use it every call !!


Hi Rag, the HR 54 doesn't have a phone jack, so no caller ID.


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## Hcdavis3 (Mar 22, 2016)

lparsons21 said:


> The HR54 doesn't output 4K at all so it wouldn't need the current HDMI/HDCP specs.
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


Hmmm, how about the C61?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hcdavis3 said:


> Hi Rag, the HR 54 doesn't have a phone jack, so no caller ID.


I know, that is why I said I will keep my HR-44
Tooo bad, it disappeared on the 54, Lots of people have Land Lines


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

ragweed10 said:


> Where did you hear Netflix needs 25 MBPS ?
> I have 6 MBPS and Netflix is ""PERFECT"" sometimes better than DTV
> Netflix told me 3 MBPS would work Fine.


If they send you "4K" at that rate it's not really 4K. No way no how.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

joshjr said:


> The only way I would add a Mini into my mix would be as a test. I'd be happy to test one for them but not interested in having one just for me personally to get 4K. Its absolutely insane that think that none of the Genie's are or will be capable of this. How can the HR54 pass it to the mini but not be capable of doing it, itself? This is ass backwards for sure!
> 
> Im also inclined to agree with you on the tuners. I would love to get to 8 tuners or more myself. I make 5 work but man a few more would really be great. FYI, I dont share my Genie. All other rooms in the house have their own DVRs and we dont use Whole Home either. The Genie is my personal DVR thats it period.


There isn't a hvec decoder in the genies. Only in the c61k. And they are using hvec for compression so that's why only the c61k can show 4K. It's the only one with the decoder capable of producing the 4K image.

Have you seen a c61k? They are probably twice as big and have what I think is a large heat sync. They are first generation processors for this after all. Why use a new chip in every box at a higher cost when only a tiny percentage will use it right now. Wait till you get a new generation.

I wonder if dish is using a newer generation in their hopper myself. Or if they are even using hvec.

And people get way to upset over the concept of minis IMHO. How many channels do you actually have on or recording total at once in your home. That's what matters. Not if its a mini or not.

In fact if you record everything you watch there is zero difference from use ability standpoint between a mini and a h25.

The only time it really sucks right now is if you only have one tv in your home.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Riverpilot said:


> Exactly why myself and many others that I know won't upgrade to Directv 4k as long as the genie only has 5 tuners. It's not enough... Give us 10+ tuners and then a mini could be made to work. As it is now? Nope.


Why do you care how many tuners it has? The problem is that you can get only get one, when they move to the 'gateway' that has no video output I'm sure they'll let you have more than one if you need more tuners. For most people 5 or 7 tuners is fine, making a product with 16 tuners like Dish doesn't make sense for 98% of their customers. I'm sure its great never having to worry about running out of tuners, but I'd be at that point if I had 3


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> There isn't a hvec decoder in the genies. Only in the c61k. And they are using hvec for compression so that's why only the c61k can show 4K. It's the only one with the decoder capable of producing the 4K image.


Not just that, it also has HDMI 1.4 not HDMI 2.0, and of course that HDMI 1.4 port doesn't support HDCP 2.2 either.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

joshjr said:


> Wow, are you really still using a land line?


If you have More than (1) phone in the house, it is Much easier to have a Land Line.
Call don't Drop, get Fuzzy and I can find the phones.
I have Vonage, It Rings ALL house Phones, my Cell and Office Phone, All at the Same Time.
Plus: Displays CID on ALL TV's and ALL Phones.
Can't do that with a Cell phone you left at your office, in the car or is in a charger.
Kinda neat


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

inkahauts said:


> There isn't a hvec decoder in the genies. Only in the c61k. And they are using hvec for compression so that's why only the c61k can show 4K. It's the only one with the decoder capable of producing the 4K image.


It's just *HEVC or H.265 (could be used for SD/HD/UHD)*


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

P Smith said:


> It's just *HEVC or H.265 (could be used for SD/HD/UHD)*


Sure ...

But the point is of course, that DIRECTV is using the H.265 compression format only on their 4K feeds. And only the C61K client has an HEVC decoder as well as the chips to support the HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 encryption standards.

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

last day someone discover H3 have HDCP controlling from FW (!) what can lover the 4k requirement to less then HDCP v2.0


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

ragweed10 said:


> If you have More than (1) phone in the house, it is Much easier to have a Land Line.
> Call don't Drop, get Fuzzy and I can find the phones.
> I have Vonage, It Rings ALL house Phones, my Cell and Office Phone, All at the Same Time.
> Plus: Displays CID on ALL TV's and ALL Phones.
> ...


I, too, have a land line, but I do not connect my DirecTV receivers to the phone line because they introduce hum to the phone line. Since all of the phones in my house display caller ID and three of them audibly announce the caller, I see no need to have the caller ID flash up on the television.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

joshjr said:


> I admit I have not been following 4K much at all but I got this email from Solid Signal today that clarifies that I would have to have a new mini to get 4K. NO WAY! I am out. I will never have a mini in my setup EVER!. Seems like such a waste.


Minis are great when you have more televisions/DirecTV receivers than tuner capacity coming from the SWiM. Wireless minis are great when you want to put a TV on a wall where it is impossible to run a coax. Previously, I had a SWiM 8 with a HR21, two H22, and an H24. That is 5 tuners, so no problem. I needed OTA capability because my local CBS station relegated the CBS SEC games to a sub channel so they could show the ACC network game on the main channel. When I did not have Whole Home DVR, I could diplex the OTA signal on one coax. When I replaced one of the H22s with a HR44, I would have had 9 tuners and could no longer diplex the OTA signal. One TV location was on an exterior wall that had spray foam insulation. I could not fish a second coax into that location, and I was not going to have coax running on the outside (or inside) of the house. The best way to get both DirecTV and OTA to that location was with a wireless mini. By replacing the other H22 with the wireless mini, I was now back down to 8 tuners, and I had both DirecTV and OTA at every location in my house.

If you have a 4K TV with RVU capability, you do not really need to have the mini. I am waiting until there is actual 4K content that I would want to watch to take the plunge, but when I do, I will have to get a new TV, anyway. At that point, I would decide whether I wanted an RVU TV or a C-61. The requirement for a C-61 would not be a deterrent. The fact that currently there is no content is a big deterrent for me.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

P Smith said:


> last day someone discover H3 have HDCP controlling from FW (!) what can lover the 4k requirement to less then HDCP v2.0


Of course the firmware controls whether HDCP is on or not, how else could it possibly work? Providers will be bound by the contracts they sign that allow them to distribute 4K channels, so if a firmware bug disables HDCP they will be required to fix it.

I don't anticipate anything other than a universal HDCP 2.2 requirement for all 4K channels, other than maybe a few where they may care too much about protecting the content like NASA TV. I'm hoping that will be relaxed for 4K channels downscaled to 1080p for viewing on a HDTV, but I guess that remains to be seen.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

fleckrj said:


> I, too, have a land line, but I do not connect my DirecTV receivers to the phone line because they introduce hum to the phone line. Since all of the phones in my house display caller ID and three of them audibly announce the caller, I see no need to have the caller ID flash up on the television.


Maybe you have a BAD line Cord. ?? Something is wrong. I never have any hum.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

ragweed10 said:


> Maybe you have a BAD line Cord. ?? Something is wrong. I never have any hum.


It is not a bad cord. I have tried multiple cords from multiple outlets. It is the HR21. When the HR21 is connected, there is a hum. When it is not connected, there is no hum. I have not tried connecting my HR44 or H24 to the phone line, because there is no need, but I have had multiple HR21s over the years (replacements after hard drive failures), and they all added a hum to the phone line. They just have poor internal shielding.

Since I have multiple other choices for seeing the caller ID, and since all of my receivers are connected to the internet, there is just no reason to connect the DirecTV receiver to the phone line.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

fleckrj said:


> It is not a bad cord. I have tried multiple cords from multiple outlets. It is the HR21. When the HR21 is connected, there is a hum. When it is not connected, there is no hum. I have not tried connecting my HR44 or H24 to the phone line, because there is no need, but I have had multiple HR21s over the years (replacements after hard drive failures), and they all added a hum to the phone line. They just have poor internal shielding.
> 
> Since I have multiple other choices for seeing the caller ID, and since all of my receivers are connected to the internet, there is just no reason to connect the DirecTV receiver to the phone line.


Plus I admit I was getting tired of all those issue threads about the infamous "phantom CID" problem that DIRECTV could seemingly never fix. So wasn't too sad to see DIRECTV drop the phoneline feature on the HR54 ...

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

fleckrj said:


> It is not a bad cord. I have tried multiple cords from multiple outlets. It is the HR21. When the HR21 is connected, there is a hum. When it is not connected, there is no hum. I have not tried connecting my HR44 or H24 to the phone line, because there is no need, but I have had multiple HR21s over the years (replacements after hard drive failures), and they all added a hum to the phone line. They just have poor internal shielding.
> 
> Since I have multiple other choices for seeing the caller ID, and since all of my receivers are connected to the internet, there is just no reason to connect the DirecTV receiver to the phone line.


I am just curious, how about connecting the phone line to the HR-44 and let me know if it has a hum.
What does connecting the receivers to the internet have to do with CID ? Maybe the hum is coming from that connection ?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

HoTat2 said:


> Plus I admit I was getting tired of all those issue threads about the infamous "phantom CID" problem that DIRECTV could seemingly never fix. So wasn't too sad to see DIRECTV drop the phoneline feature on the HR54 ...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


I never heard of any infamous "phantom CID" problems. What were they ?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ragweed10 said:


> I never heard of any infamous "phantom CID" problems. What were they ?


Do a forum search on it, should have no problem getting hits on it.

Though I admit that I never had them on my previous HR34 (one of the few things that worked right on it. lol). Or on any of the three HR24s connected to phonelines here.
(Two other HR24s here are not connected to phonelines)

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

ragweed10 said:


> I am just curious, how about connecting the phone line to the HR-44 and let me know if it has a hum.
> What does connecting the receivers to the internet have to do with CID ? Maybe the hum is coming from that connection ?


Connecting receivers to the internet has nothing to do with CID, but everything to do with eliminating any other need to connect the receiver to the land line (ordering PPV from the remote). There is no phone jack anywhere near my HR-44, but now that I have switched from analog land line to U-Verse, I might try the HR22 again. I suspect the hum is analog and will not be present with digital. I still have no reason to keep the receiver connected to the phone line, but I am curious to see if switching to digital telephone service would fix the problem.

The hum is not from the internet. I did not connect any of the receivers to the internet until after I had the problem with the connection to the phone line. The primary reason I connected the receiver to the internet was to eliminate the need for the telephone connection. That was before on demand was available. Now, there are more reasons to connect to the internet, but no reason to connect to the phone line.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

HoTat2 said:


> Do a forum search on it, should have no problem getting hits on it.
> 
> Though I admit that I never had them on my previous HR34 (one of the few things that worked right on it. lol). Or on any of the three HR24s connected to phonelines here.
> (Two other HR24s here are not connected to phonelines)
> ...


OK 
Where or how do I get to the forum search ?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

fleckrj said:


> Connecting receivers to the internet has nothing to do with CID, but everything to do with eliminating any other need to connect the receiver to the land line (ordering PPV from the remote). There is no phone jack anywhere near my HR-44, but now that I have switched from analog land line to U-Verse, I might try the HR22 again. I suspect the hum is analog and will not be present with digital. I still have no reason to keep the receiver connected to the phone line, but I am curious to see if switching to digital telephone service would fix the problem.
> 
> The hum is not from the internet. I did not connect any of the receivers to the internet until after I had the problem with the connection to the phone line. The primary reason I connected the receiver to the internet was to eliminate the need for the telephone connection. That was before on demand was available. Now, there are more reasons to connect to the internet, but no reason to connect to the phone line.


Let me know what happens when connecting the U-verse line.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

fleckrj said:


> If you have a 4K TV with RVU capability, you do not really need to have the mini. I am waiting until there is actual 4K content that I would want to watch to take the plunge, but when I do, I will have to get a new TV, anyway. At that point, I would decide whether I wanted an RVU TV or a C-61. The requirement for a C-61 would not be a deterrent. The fact that currently there is no content is a big deterrent for me.


I do have a 4K set with RVU capability and I don't use the RVU option. There is no content on D* that I want to see that is in 4K. Am I bothered by this? Am I sorry I bought the set (one of my plasmas failed and I needed a replacement set or I wouldn't have bought the 4K set)? Not at all. The upscaled PQ on D* is so good that if they never go to linear programming the set would still be worth every cent I spent on it. Much better than my 1080p plasma. I didn't expect that when I bought the 4K set, I'll admit that.

And, anything that puts out 1080p content is upscaled really well. Almost to the point where it looks 4Kish. I was kinda conflicted about buying a 4K set (bought it last year during the Black Friday sales) and I was really disappointed by the first four 4K sets I bought and returned. The fifth one (naturally the most expensive) I kept and it really puts out great PQ from any content provider. Like you, I don't think I would have just run out and bought a 4K set just because they were out there, but I needed a new TV and I'm not sorry I made the leap when I did.

What I'm waiting for now is something to change drastically in the D* world. Almost half my D* bill is for equipment and I'm not gonna add to that. When and if a new Genie comes out that can put out 4K I'll get that. I figure I can wait until that happens, which will probably be not that far in the future.

Point I'm trying to make is if you need a new set, don't be afraid to jump on a 4K set. Just make sure you understand what "refresh rate" means on each brand and be prepared to spend more than you really want to.

Rich


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

Rich said:


> I do have a 4K set with RVU capability and I don't use the RVU option. There is no content on D* that I want to see that is in 4K. Am I bothered by this? Am I sorry I bought the set (one of my plasmas failed and I needed a replacement set or I wouldn't have bought the 4K set)? Not at all. The upscaled PQ on D* is so good that if they never go to linear programming the set would still be worth every cent I spent on it. Much better than my 1080p plasma. I didn't expect that when I bought the 4K set, I'll admit that.
> 
> And, anything that puts out 1080p content is upscaled really well. Almost to the point where it looks 4Kish. I was kinda conflicted about buying a 4K set (bought it last year during the Black Friday sales) and I was really disappointed by the first four 4K sets I bought and returned. The fifth one (naturally the most expensive) I kept and it really puts out great PQ from any content provider. Like you, I don't think I would have just run out and bought a 4K set just because they were out there, but I needed a new TV and I'm not sorry I made the leap when I did.
> 
> ...


What Brands were your 1st (4) TV's you returned ?
What was the 5th that is GOOD ?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Hcdavis3 said:


> Hey Sledge, you must have the 65 inch LG 9500 or the 55 curved screen. I have a 65 coming Friday from BB. I am praying that the HR 54 and C61s are HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. No 2.0a means no HDR  Can you shed any Light on the HDMI specs for these 2 DTV boxes?


I have the 55EF9500, the 55" flat. No room for the 65" ... but the 65EF9500 is known to have issues, so you better test it closely while your exchange window is still open . People are going through 4 - 5 of them before finding a good one. They have pink & yellow banding / staining on the screen. Also vignetting issues, but the 55" is more prone to vignetting.

The EF9500 is HDMI 2.0a + HDR10 + 100Mbps ethernet and wireless-N (grrrr...). The new 2016 model adds DolbyVision and 1Gbps ethernet and wireless AC.

Still an awesome TV though once you calibrate it .


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

Rich said:


> Point I'm trying to make is if you need a new set, don't be afraid to jump on a 4K set. Just make sure you understand what "refresh rate" means on each brand and be prepared to spend more than you really want to.
> 
> Rich


When I replace my 55 in Panny 1080p plasma, I will get a 4K, but over the weekend I needed to replace an old 32" Phillips (1080i, but no 1080p) LED. At that size, I do not see a need for 4K.


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## ep1974 (May 22, 2010)

fleckrj said:


> When I replace my 55 in Panny 1080p plasma, I will get a 4K, but over the weekend I needed to replace an old 32" Phillips (1080i, but no 1080p) LED. At that size, I do not see a need for 4K.


Does anyone know what is the smallest 4K tv that's available, brand etc??


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

ep1974 said:


> Does anyone know what is the smallest 4K tv that's available, brand etc??


Samsung has a 40". I do not know if there are any smaller than that. I ended up buying a 40" Samsung 1080p to replace my 32" Phillips. Because the Phillips had the speakers on the side of the screen, the 40" Samsung is about the same overall size (and half the weight) of the old Phillips. I had considered the 40" Samsung 4K along with 43" Sony, Sharp, and Visio 4K, but even at 43", there is not enough difference between 1080p and 4K (not even considering the fact that there is limited 4K content) to warrant spending the extra $200 to $300. At some point, I will replace my 55" Panny with a 65" 4K, but for my smaller TVs, there is no reason to go 4K.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

fleckrj said:


> It is not a bad cord. I have tried multiple cords from multiple outlets. It is the HR21. When the HR21 is connected, there is a hum. When it is not connected, there is no hum. I have not tried connecting my HR44 or H24 to the phone line, because there is no need, but I have had multiple HR21s over the years (replacements after hard drive failures), and they all added a hum to the phone line. They just have poor internal shielding.
> 
> Since I have multiple other choices for seeing the caller ID, and since all of my receivers are connected to the internet, there is just no reason to connect the DirecTV receiver to the phone line.


Is it a 60 Hz hum like an audio system that has a ground loop? Or is it a higher frequency?


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

slice1900 said:


> Is it a 60 Hz hum like an audio system that has a ground loop? Or is it a higher frequency?


It is a 60 Hz hum on the phone, but only when the HR21 is connected to the phone line.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

OK sounds like a ground loop. Receivers newer than the H20/HR20 are not electrically grounded, and I doubt your dish's ground (if you have one) is carried over to everything electrical in Directv DVRs. Not really sure how to handle this, but I assume there should be some way to mitigate this on a phone line. Maybe something that will electrically isolate it or a 60 Hz notch filter is out there somewhere.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Could be some bizzare loud if the dish and the phone system are grounded at the same exact spot I suppose. 

I'd also be curios if that issue happened from any phone jack or just the one. Could be a problem with the line for that jack


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> Could be some bizzare loud if the dish and the phone system are grounded at the same exact spot I suppose.
> 
> I'd also be curios if that issue happened from any phone jack or just the one. Could be a problem with the line for that jack


Did you try connecting the Phone Line to the HR-44 Receiver and see if it has the hum ?


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

ragweed10 said:


> Did you try connecting the Phone Line to the HR-44 Receiver and see if it has the hum ?


I have not done that, because the HR44 is not near a phone jack. I suspect that now that I have a digital phone line instead of an analog phone line, the hum is probably gone, even with the HR21, but until I recover from my knee surgery, I am not going to be switching any wires or boxes around. The whole point is that there is no need for a phone connection anymore, anyway, so it does not surprise me that the HR54 no longer has the capability of connecting it to the phone line. CID was a nice add on, but was never the main reason to connect any of the boxes to the phone line. In fact, when I did have my HR21 connected to the phone line, I disabled CID on the DirecTV box, because I did not need three different ways of knowing who was calling. Now that the newer boxes connect to WiFi, there is no need for a phone connection.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

what so significant in phone line/CID when we are discussing *4K* dtv in the thread ?
If - yes, then it should be awarded by opening own dedicated thread. Duh !


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> There isn't a hvec decoder in the genies. Only in the c61k. And they are using hvec for compression so that's why only the c61k can show 4K. It's the only one with the decoder capable of producing the 4K image.
> 
> Have you seen a c61k? They are probably twice as big and have what I think is a large heat sync. They are first generation processors for this after all. Why use a new chip in every box at a higher cost when only a tiny percentage will use it right now. Wait till you get a new generation.
> 
> ...


There are alot of occassions where that is anywhere from 7-9 things recording if not more. I get it works for some but it does NOT work for me. I am not on board at all. If I was using a Genie for what it was designed for and not personal DVR it might be different. If I only really needed 2-3 tuners regularly then it might be different also but that isnt the case. I dont think its a stretch to think there are people like me who need the ability to record alot of shows at the same time with a large hard drive and it be for 1 TV only. The only way I was able to make a 2 tuner DVR work previously was that I am lucky enough to be grandfathered in for the west coast DNS feeds. Otherwise it would have been alot bigger of a mess for me.


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## captaink5217 (Sep 20, 2011)

P Smith said:


> what so significant in phone line/CID when we are discussing *4K* dtv in the thread ?
> If - yes, then it should be awarded by opening own dedicated thread. Duh !


Personally I could care a less about no phone line support, I haven't had a regular phone line for 10 yrs now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

captaink5217 said:


> Personally I could care a less about no phone line support, I haven't had a regular phone line for 10 yrs now
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think its been 6 years for me. Not sure why I would want one back. It would be like $20 a month and then long distance charges on top of that. Cell works just great. I dont need to see who is calling me on my TV that bad lol. I never understood the concept even when land lines were more popular. I would want to see caller ID on the phone not my TV.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Wouldn't the new central hub gateway need a phone line since AT&T wants use it to tie all their services together? It would need one for FTTN areas and for people who still use POTS?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ragweed10 said:


> What Brands were your 1st (4) TV's you returned ?
> What was the 5th that is GOOD ?


The first two were...not really sure about the model number, I think they were both 650D Samsungs. One was a 55" and IIRC, the second one was a 60" model. Both juddered quite a bit, both had a 120 refresh rate. The third 4K was an LG, 7690 model, I think. Had problems with the colors. Fourth was a Sony 850C. Terrible picture and it would not accept the 2160p feed from my upscaling BD player. Then I found a website that explained refresh rates very well, here's a _*link*_ to that site. That cleared up what had become a confusing experience. I ended up spending a bit over $2000 for a Samsung JS8500 65" set. I didn't expect to spend that much, but, being picky about PQ, I'm not sorry I did.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

fleckrj said:


> When I replace my 55 in Panny 1080p plasma, I will get a 4K, but over the weekend I needed to replace an old 32" Phillips (1080i, but no 1080p) LED. _*At that size, I do not see a need for 4K*_.


Right, I use a 42" 1080p Panny plasma when I feel the need to "hide out" and I don't see much difference in PQ between that set and the 4K set, or if I do, it's not that much to worry about. The smaller you go, the less the need for a 4K set and the larger you go you'll really see the difference between a 4K and a 1080p set. I have a 60" Panny plasma and I have had the same content running on that and the 4K set at the same time using several providers and the difference in PQ is very noticeable. The 4K set is much better. I didn't really expect to see that much difference.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

joshjr said:


> I think its been 6 years for me. Not sure why I would want one back. It would be like $20 a month and then long distance charges on top of that. Cell works just great. I dont need to see who is calling me on my TV that bad lol. I never understood the concept even when land lines were more popular. I would want to see caller ID on the phone not my TV.


Right. I've never used the CID, at least on the HRs. Never saw the need. Cell phones are all we need.

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

joshjr said:


> There are alot of occassions where that is anywhere from 7-9 things recording if not more. I get it works for some but it does NOT work for me. I am not on board at all. If I was using a Genie for what it was designed for and not personal DVR it might be different. If I only really needed 2-3 tuners regularly then it might be different also but that isnt the case. I dont think its a stretch to think there are people like me who need the ability to record alot of shows at the same time with a large hard drive and it be for 1 TV only. The only way I was able to make a 2 tuner DVR work previously was that I am lucky enough to be grandfathered in for the west coast DNS feeds. Otherwise it would have been alot bigger of a mess for me.


You must record a lot of sports. That's the only reason with Genie you actually need more than five tuners on a regular basis if you're simply recording everything you watch. I say this because Cable channels pretty much repeat everything at two different times so that one of the airings will not conflict with primetime television.

But sports is the one that always gets in the way because it covers all of that. I have this issue myself. I watch way to much of both.

If you only have one TV that does make it difficult. But a Genie and a couple HR 24's and a mini would get nine tuners and still hook up four TVs which isn't out of the question in many peoples homes who feel the need to have nine tuners. And that is my point that while there are a few exceptions to the rule the general rule is most people do not have any issues having minis in their house or some combination of minis with additional DVR's.

Its unfortunate my opinion that everyone seems to say minis are horrible for everyone and they shouldn't get them when most the time that's just not true. People need to make suggestions based on how they use the system and what they have not based on their own setups and what they have to have to meet their needs. Very few of us have the same needs.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> You must record a lot of sports. That's the only reason with Genie you actually need more than five tuners on a regular basis if you're simply recording everything you watch. I say this because Cable channels pretty much repeat everything at two different times so that one of the airings will not conflict with primetime television.
> 
> But sports is the one that always gets in the way because it covers all of that. I have this issue myself. I watch way to much of both.
> 
> ...


While I agree with that, I think its wrong to also not tell them that Mini's steal a tuner and would remove a 5th recording (unless maybe that mini was tuned to the channel the recording was going to be on) that if they only have a Genie and mini's its possible for everything to break if the Genie dies, etc. So in short, I agree build the system to the customer but in my opinion, even though I love DirecTV, they are not very good at this. They always miss something. I almost was not a DirecTV customer back in 2008 when I got installed. It was over the fact that there was no locals in my market on DirecTV but I had to do my own research to find out that the HR20's would work with an antenna which I had. Why on earth anyone handling calls for new customers would not know that is beyond me.

I get that I am not a normal customer. I think I have 15 tuners on my account. Each person has their own DVR in the house and we dont use whole home. That being said, they still should know how to get me what I want. Not every customer is going to go find all this info out on their own. So while I agree minis are not completley bad, I think its worth telling people who want to add them what they can expect with having one.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

joshjr said:


> While I agree with that, I think its wrong to also not tell them that Mini's steal a tuner and would remove a 5th recording (unless maybe that mini was tuned to the channel the recording was going to be on) that if they only have a Genie and mini's its possible for everything to break if the Genie dies, etc. So in short, I agree build the system to the customer but in my opinion, even though I love DirecTV, they are not very good at this. They always miss something. I almost was not a DirecTV customer back in 2008 when I got installed. It was over the fact that there was no locals in my market on DirecTV but I had to do my own research to find out that the HR20's would work with an antenna which I had. Why on earth anyone handling calls for new customers would not know that is beyond me.
> 
> I get that I am not a normal customer. I think I have 15 tuners on my account. Each person has their own DVR in the house and we dont use whole home. That being said, they still should know how to get me what I want. Not every customer is going to go find all this info out on their own. So while I agree minis are not completley bad, I think its worth telling people who want to add them what they can expect with having one.


I don't believe that saying they steal a tuner is correct at all. You have a pool of tuners and if none are free you watch something recorded. How is that different than any other dvr? People try to compartmentalism things when thy shouldn't when it comes to discussing minis. Discuss it as an entire system. And if you record everything you watch you never have any issues ever.

With that said I think that's how it needs to be explained. That you have a pool of tuners for this many tvs. It's not theft.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> I don't believe that saying they steal a tuner is correct at all. You have a pool of tuners and if none are free you watch something recorded. How is that different than any other dvr? People try to compartmentalism things when thy shouldn't when it comes to discussing minis. Discuss it as an entire system. And if you record everything you watch you never have any issues ever.
> 
> With that said I think that's how it needs to be explained. That you have a pool of tuners for this many tvs. It's not theft.


Either way its not described as you can record 5 different channels (unless your using a mini for live TV). To me a genie and Mini's are really for people who dont need 5 tuners but since there wasnt another option for more than 2 tuners, people like me are forced to used a Genie for what we need.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm confused. Where and what description are you talking about? Mine ir dtvs somewhere?

And why would you say it's not designed for people who need five tuners in their home. That doesn't make any sense to me since that's exactly what it's designed for.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

joshjr said:


> While I agree with that, I think its wrong to also not tell them that Mini's steal a tuner and would remove a 5th recording (unless maybe that mini was tuned to the channel the recording was going to be on) that if they only have a Genie and mini's its possible for everything to break if the Genie dies, etc.


It is possible for everything to go down, yes. But it at least has been reduced.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

inkahauts said:


> I'm confused. Where and what description are you talking about? Mine ir dtvs somewhere?
> 
> And why would you say it's not designed for people who need five tuners in their home. That doesn't make any sense to me since that's exactly what it's designed for.


I dont understand your first question. As for the 2nd one I guess I should have said it wasnt designed for people to record on all 5 tuners. It only take one mini to be watching live feed for there to be less tuners available for recording and since minis are pushed so strongly and its what the system was designed for, I have to say that even though its built with 5 tuners, it seems like it wasnt really for recording 5 things at the same time.

How many calls do you think DirecTV gets where someones Genie isnt recording 5 shows at the same time and it turns out its because there are two people on the house watching live TV on minis? Im gonna guess it happens alot. If so, it means there was not good enough education on the product before it was installed or before the tech that installed it left.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

dpeters11 said:


> It is possible for everything to go down, yes. But it at least has been reduced.


What part has been reduced? If you have 1 genie and 3 minis and the Genie goes out, there is no TV on any TV in the house right?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

joshjr said:


> What part has been reduced? If you have 1 genie and 3 minis and the Genie goes out, there is no TV on any TV in the house right?


You have that CORRECT !!
This other guy doesn't understand the Genie and mini Genie's


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

joshjr said:


> I dont understand your first question. As for the 2nd one I guess I should have said it wasnt designed for people to record on all 5 tuners. It only take one mini to be watching live feed for there to be less tuners available for recording and since minis are pushed so strongly and its what the system was designed for, I have to say that even though its built with 5 tuners, it seems like it wasnt really for recording 5 things at the same time.
> 
> How many calls do you think DirecTV gets where someones Genie isnt recording 5 shows at the same time and it turns out its because there are two people on the house watching live TV on minis? Im gonna guess it happens alot. If so, it means there was not good enough education on the product before it was installed or before the tech that installed it left.


I do not think the Genie was designed with recording five things in mind. It was designed as a way to replace one HR2x and up to three H2x with one Genie and up to three mini's. Either way, you could record two channels while watching three different channels. The HR2x DVRs had two tuners. The Genies have two tuners after they have been maxed out by mini's. It is the same.

As far as the C-61 taking up a tuner in the situation where you have only one TV but want to watch 4K, it really is not any different than having capability of watching 4K directly through the HR54. The limit on the number of channels you can record and watch would be the same either way. The only time the number of tuners comes into effect is when the C-61 is connected to a second TV, and then it does take up one tuner.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Why are you arguing over whether it was designed for recording five things, or serving multiple TVs? It was quite clearly designed for both.


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## joshjr (Aug 2, 2008)

slice1900 said:


> Why are you arguing over whether it was designed for recording five things, or serving multiple TVs? It was quite clearly designed for both.


Thats not what it was over. It was mentioned that some people dont like when its said minis steal tuners or the system us flawed, etc. My point was that most are not fully aware of what issues they may have by having a Genie and mini's. If they were fully aware and made the decision to get minis then its on them but I highly doubt they are informed everything they really need to know to make that decision.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

joshjr said:


> I dont understand your first question. As for the 2nd one I guess I should have said it wasnt designed for people to record on all 5 tuners. It only take one mini to be watching live feed for there to be less tuners available for recording and since minis are pushed so strongly and its what the system was designed for, I have to say that even though its built with 5 tuners, it seems like it wasnt really for recording 5 things at the same time.
> 
> How many calls do you think DirecTV gets where someones Genie isnt recording 5 shows at the same time and it turns out its because there are two people on the house watching live TV on minis? Im gonna guess it happens alot. If so, it means there was not good enough education on the product before it was installed or before the tech that installed it left.


Think that is BAD, Try the "HOPPER" from Dish.
That's when the real CONFUSION STARTS.
(6) Tuners, BUTT, (4) go to Network channels to Automatically Record (4 Shows)
Leaving you with (2) Tuners to record (2) Shows of your choosing, and NO Turners to watch Live TV.
DirecTV's GENIE is FANTASTIC compared to the "hopper"
I dumped the hopper and paid the Early termination fee.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Uh, no. The Hopper 1 & 2 do not have 6 tuners. They have 3, one of which can be used to tune the big 4 broadcast channels, but don't have to be.

The Hopper 3 has 16 tuners which compared to the Genie makes the Genie 11 tuners short! And it actually does 4K right now with no add on box. At this moment in time, the Hopper 3 leaves all other HDDVRs in the dust. Moving target of course... 


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


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## texasbrit (Aug 9, 2006)

Yes, moving target, and probably 99% of customers don't care about having 16 tuners.
And of course Dish does not have linear 4K channels yet, as far as I know..


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

joshjr said:


> I dont understand your first question. As for the 2nd one I guess I should have said it wasnt designed for people to record on all 5 tuners. It only take one mini to be watching live feed for there to be less tuners available for recording and since minis are pushed so strongly and its what the system was designed for, I have to say that even though its built with 5 tuners, it seems like it wasnt really for recording 5 things at the same time.
> 
> How many calls do you think DirecTV gets where someones Genie isnt recording 5 shows at the same time and it turns out its because there are two people on the house watching live TV on minis? Im gonna guess it happens alot. If so, it means there was not good enough education on the product before it was installed or before the tech that installed it left.


My first question was who's description and where is that description?

And I bet zero. You have to remember that the normal install has always been one hr2x DVR and three h2x. A genie system is tons more versatile than that.

What's the difference when you turn the mini on and it says you have to watch a channel that's being recorded or something from the playlist any different than having that happen in a two tuner unit?


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

ragweed10 said:


> You have that CORRECT !!
> This other guy doesn't understand the Genie and mini Genie's


Actually depends on what the reason is. If it's the hard drive then you can still use all your tvs just not record till you get it replaced. And if it's the power supply and not a HR34 then you will get to keep your recordings after a day or two of no tv.

And this argument is always funny to me because what if the power supply for the dish dies? Building a system one way over another strictly for worrying about the possible breakdown of a DVR once in a few years (if ever) is like saying I like buying insurance to me.

And who doesn't have a DVD player and discs (or something like that) if you have an HDTV to hold you over for a day or two.

And unless it's sports most everything can be had via on demand or repeates writhing a few days of you getting service back up.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

texasbrit said:


> Yes, moving target, and probably 99% of customers don't care about having 16 tuners.
> And of course Dish does not have linear 4K channels yet, as far as I know..


Yeah, even I don't care about 16 tuners, but I sure did want more than the 5 live I had. I figgered 10 would have been just fine.

And of course, it isn't like there is a slew of linear 4K channels to select from. I suspect they will come when something comes along that has more general interest. Frankly I don't expect to ever see a whole lot of them.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Uh, no. The Hopper 1 & 2 do not have 6 tuners. They have 3, one of which can be used to tune the big 4 broadcast channels, but don't have to be.
> 
> The Hopper 3 has 16 tuners which compared to the Genie makes the Genie 11 tuners short! And it actually does 4K right now with no add on box. At this moment in time, the Hopper 3 leaves all other HDDVRs in the dust. Moving target of course...
> 
> Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk


How can you Record (4) Different Broadcast Channels from (1) Tuner at the same time.??
Kinda like going to a Movie theater, and watching (4) different Movies from (1) Projector. 
NOT POSSIBLE !!


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## KyL416 (Nov 11, 2005)

Dish has their big 4 locals for each market on the same transponder, so they can just record the entire transport stream from that transponder with one tuner.

If DirecTV wanted to, they can do the same, but it would take a reshuffle since many markets have stations spread out on multiple transponders, especially in NYC and LA where they use remaps of the conus DNS feeds in the 390s for the big 4.

It doesn't have to be limited to locals either, any transponder could be recorded with one tuner, the problem is it would be a CSR nightmare trying to explain to average users why they only need one tuner to record Disney, BeIN and Spike, but 3 tuners if they want to record Nickelodeon, Fox Sports 2 and FX, and that channels can change transponders without notice.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

KyL416 said:


> Dish has their big 4 locals for each market on the same transponder, so they can just record the entire transport stream from that transponder with one tuner.
> 
> If DirecTV wanted to, they can do the same, but it would take a reshuffle since many markets have stations spread out on multiple transponders, especially in NYC and LA where they use remaps of the conus DNS feeds in the 390s for the big 4.
> 
> It doesn't have to be limited to locals either, any transponder could be recorded with one tuner, the problem is it would be a CSR nightmare trying to explain to average uses why they only need one tuner to record Disney, BeIN and Spike, but 3 tuners if they want to record Nickelodeon, Fox Sports 2 and FX, and that channels can change transponders without notice.


Thanks for the reply and info.
YES it would be a nightmare to explain, etc.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Right, it took some real planning to get things at the satellite end lined out they way they needed. And it works quite well. A nice benefit is that if you turn PTAT on for the 6 nights a week that the big broadcast networks have their new shows, you just need one timer to do it, and if a new show comes up you don't have to think about recording it, as PTAT will have done it automagically.


Lloyd


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

joshjr said:


> What part has been reduced? If you have 1 genie and 3 minis and the Genie goes out, there is no TV on any TV in the house right?


I think he meant the possibility of losing a Genie or a 24 had been reduced. You have to admit they are much more stable than they have ever been. I hate to jinx myself, but I haven't lost an HR for several years. And I do understand the difference between a bad HR and a bad HDD. I've had a couple of my internal drives go bad, but they were in service for 5 years or more, can't expect much more from them.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

ragweed10 said:


> You have that CORRECT !!
> This other guy doesn't understand the Genie and mini Genie's


No, I understand it perfectly. Yes, if the power supply goes out, fans fail and it has a thermal shut down, yes the entire system goes down in a full genie client system. If the hard drive fails, the genie and clients still work for things that don't require a hard drive.

This might not apply to the hr34, not sure of the status of this feature there. This was added around them time of the H44.

Sent from my STV100-2 using Tapatalk


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Actually depends on what the reason is. If it's the hard drive then you can still use all your tvs just not record till you get it replaced. And if it's the power supply and not a HR34 then you will get to keep your recordings after a day or two of no tv.
> 
> And this argument is always funny to me because what if the power supply for the dish dies? Building a system one way over another strictly for worrying about the possible breakdown of a DVR once in a few years (if ever) is like saying I like buying insurance to me.
> 
> ...


I do understand the argument as while swm16s and power supplies fail, it's moving parts that are generally more likely.

But, say you have an hr54 and true relievers. Hr54 fails and you don't have a PI. Whoops! Everything down.

And I know at least one installer that uses the internal PI on installs.

Sent from my STV100-2 using Tapatalk


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

dpeters11 said:


> I do understand the argument as while swm16s and power supplies fail, it's moving parts that are generally more likely.
> 
> But, say you have an hr54 and true relievers. Hr54 fails and you don't have a PI. Whoops! Everything down.
> 
> ...


What is Tapatalk ?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

ragweed10 said:


> What is Tapatalk ?


not related to the thread ... search Internet !


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

ragweed10 said:


> Think that is BAD, Try the "HOPPER" from Dish.
> That's when the real CONFUSION STARTS.
> (6) Tuners, BUTT, (4) go to Network channels to Automatically Record (4 Shows)
> Leaving you with (2) Tuners to record (2) Shows of your choosing, and NO Turners to watch Live TV.
> ...


From the beginning you could have 2 or more Hoppers, 6 tuners and one tuner on either Hopper could record 4 network shows at once. (OAT adapters added tuners.) Recently the Super Joey added 2 tuners to a single Hopper installation. Now the Hopper3 offers 16 tuners, still with one recording the 4 networks, 4k, super fast operation, on up to 7 TVs. How does the "FANTASTIC" Genie match up?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

patmurphey said:


> From the beginning you could have 2 or more Hoppers, 6 tuners and one tuner on either Hopper could record 4 network shows at once. (OAT adapters added tuners.) Recently the Super Joey added 2 tuners to a single Hopper installation. Now the Hopper3 offers 16 tuners, still with one recording the 4 networks, 4k, super fast operation, on up to 7 TVs. How does the "FANTASTIC" Genie match up?


What is the Point of Recording (4) Networks, when you probably will NEVER watch most of it ?
Getting (2) Hoppers cost MONEY and just add to the Confusion.
Recently the Super Joey added 2 tuners to a single Hopper installation. How and what is the configuration ?
Also the PQ is NOT as good as DirecTV.
What is there to watch in 4-K ?
Get (1) Genie, (2) HR-24's and you have (9) Receivers you can do ANYTHING with.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

LOL! For Prime time on the big 4 broadcasters I watch about 70% of what is on. So while you may 'never' watch most of it, you are in the minority.

Yes, getting 2 Hopper will cost you upfront money for the 2nd one. Just as getting those 2 HR-24s will cost you upfront money if you get them as an add on to a Genie order. I think it is now $199 each. 2nd Hopper was being gotten for $100 from reports I've seen.
SuperJoey has been out for a long time. Connect to system and from anywhere you see 5 tuners just as if all 5 were in the Hopper.
In 4K on Dish right now is some VOD, no linear channel yet. Of course there is no real general interest 4K channel on anyone's system yet.
I have a single Hopper 3 with 16 tuners. If I had the TVs to support it, I could have 7 total TVs that share those 16 tuners for watching and recording.
And it has been noted here and other places that the PQ from the H3 is much better than previously, and frankly having had both systems at different and sometimes at the same time, the current HDPQ on the H3 is every bit as good as the Genie/HR models.
Of course, in both D* and E* standard installs of a Genie/Hopper plus Mini/Joey, there is a single point of failure and that is the Genie/Hopper.
IMO, the 2 pluses for D* is more HD sports and the ability to intermix mini and or HRs if you are willing to spend the extra money up front.


Lloyd


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> LOL! For Prime time on the big 4 broadcasters I watch about 70% of what is on. So while you may 'never' watch most of it, you are in the minority.
> 
> Yes, getting 2 Hopper will cost you upfront money for the 2nd one. Just as getting those 2 HR-24s will cost you upfront money if you get them as an add on to a Genie order. I think it is now $199 each. 2nd Hopper was being gotten for $100 from reports I've seen.
> SuperJoey has been out for a long time. Connect to system and from anywhere you see 5 tuners just as if all 5 were in the Hopper.
> ...


You have some points.
Connect to system (Joey) and from anywhere you see 5 tuners just as if all 5 were in the Hopper. What happened to the (16) Turners?
I also had BOTH systems connected at the SAME time.
Had BOTH installers here (DirecTV & DISH) at the SAME time. They BOTH said Dish compresses the channels, and said that is why DISH'S PQ is NOT as good as DTV. It was quite noticeable to all of us.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

You're confused. Hopper 1 & 2 have 3 tuners, SuperJoey can be used with them and adds 2 more tuners. Upside is that the combo of Hopper 1 or 2 and SuperJoey makes it all appear to the user as a unified system. IOW, all tuners, recordings and timers show up anywhere. And you can add Joeys for more TVs.

The Hopper 3 is 16 tuners and does not work with the SuperJoey. No need for it.

BTW, Dish and Direct both compress the channels. Anyone that tells you different is either ignorant or lying. For me, the difference between D* and E* HDPQ has always been not enough difference to matter.

But now with the H3 the HDPQ (and SDPQ for that matter) is markedly improved. I would say that at normal viewing distances on the same TV most would be hard pressed to tell the difference.


Lloyd


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> You're confused. Hopper 1 & 2 have 3 tuners, SuperJoey can be used with them and adds 2 more tuners. Upside is that the combo of Hopper 1 or 2 and SuperJoey makes it all appear to the user as a unified system. IOW, all tuners, recordings and timers show up anywhere. And you can add Joeys for more TVs.
> 
> The Hopper 3 is 16 tuners and does not work with the SuperJoey. No need for it.
> 
> ...


Yes. I am confused. 
Dish advertised it had (6) Receivers when it First came out. (BIG Mistake)
When I got the Hopper it had the (3) receivers in the Hopper and the Joeys were it's slaves. Same as the mini Genie's
If the Hopper was on, IT would be using (1) receiver to record the (4) networks, 
I then would record a channel (show) of my choice, (Used 2nd receiver)
and then watch (1) Live show. (Used the 3rd receiver)
My wife and Kids would go to the other TV's and start complaining the TV's said ALL Receivers are in USE.
I called Dish Tech support, they said Dish's advertising was deceptive, The Hopper only has (3) receivers.
That set-up lasted a very short time. 
My wife said it was either Her or Dish. Which one do you want ?
You have two choices, we go back to DirecTV or you can keep the Dish and I am leaving with the kids.
Be prepared to PAY for my new place and DirecTV.
I choose DirecTV.
We now have (9) receivers, all appear to the user as a unified system. all tuners, recordings and timers show up anywhere.
and can be used ANY WAY we want. NO restrictions about being locked into (4) network stations.
And you can add mini Genie's for more TVs
As for the PQ, when friends come over who have DISH, they All say how come your picture looks better than ours ?
Some have the Same TV's
I will admit on smaller TV's 32" or less there is NOT a noticeable difference.
But on Larger TV's , you really see a difference.
One More question, 
If The Hopper 3 is 16 tuners and does not work with the SuperJoey. No need for it.
What do you connect the other TV's to ?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Dish never advertised 6 tuners in the Hopper. Always was and still is, only 3 tuners for the H1 & 2.
My TV is a 70" 4K TV, how big do I have to go to see this magical difference? And how close do I have to sit to see it? 

And no, you may have a total of 9 tuners, but you do not see all at once all the timers and such. What you can see are the recordings unified. Well, unless D* made some change I've never heard about.



Lloyd


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> Dish never advertised 6 tuners in the Hopper. Always was and still is, only 3 tuners for the H1 & 2.
> My TV is a 70" 4K TV, how big do I have to go to see this magical difference? And how close do I have to sit to see it?
> 
> And no, you may have a total of 9 tuners, but you do not see all at once all the timers and such. What you can see are the recordings unified._* Well, unless D* made some change I've never heard about.*_
> ...


Nope, no changes made. Can't tell from the Playlist which HR the content was recorded on, just the dates, time it was recorded and the channel it was recorded on.

Rich


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Dish never advertised 6 tuners in the Hopper. Always was and still is, only 3 tuners for the H1 & 2.
> My TV is a 70" 4K TV, how big do I have to go to see this magical difference? And how close do I have to sit to see it?
> 
> And no, you may have a total of 9 tuners, but you do not see all at once all the timers and such. What you can see are the recordings unified. Well, unless D* made some change I've never heard about.
> ...


I am going back to 8-18-12 Dish installed a Model # ViP-722K-CVR-HD Hopper (I keep records) on 8-18-2012.
It was advertised with (6) receivers, have AD.
Not sure what an H-1 and H-2 are ? 
My latest TV's are Sony 49" XBR 850-B 4-K
Doesn't matter how far you are from the TV. The picture is Perfect, if Broadcast in Good quality HD.
What Model and Brand is yours ?
I have (1) Genie, it has (5) Receivers. and (2) HR-24 HD-DVR's, each has (2) receivers. That Totals (9) Receivers.
and WHOLE HOME Service.
This allows ALL the Receivers and Turners to work together.
Can access, "SEE ALL recordings, at SAME Time " (in Play List), Play, Back-up, Fast Forward, see date and time recorded, room receiver it is in (Where show was recorded) and Erase ANY recording from any Receiver/Turner to any Receiver/Turner. "VERY HANDY"
I can ADD More HR-24's or mini Genie's if I want. But Only have (3) TV.
""but you do not see all at once all the timers and such. What you can see are the recordings unified."" Are you talking about something else ?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

Rich said:


> Nope, no changes made. Can't tell from the Playlist which HR the content was recorded on, just the dates, time it was recorded and the channel it was recorded on.
> 
> Rich


Rich,
You need to Label your DirecTV Receivers.
Then you can see where the content was recorded. (Which HR)
It will NOT show the Room name if it was recorded on, if it is on the HR you are watching. Just the other HR's
You must also click on the Recorded show in the play list, to see the Room Name.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> LOL! For Prime time on the big 4 broadcasters I watch about 70% of what is on. So while you may 'never' watch most of it, you are in the minority.


You're nuts if you think "watching 70% of what is on" puts you anywhere but a _tiny_ minority . I'm assuming you don't mean out of the 84 prime time hours across all four networks per week you watch 58 hours of it, since that's pretty much impossible (and no one could like the crap they put on that much) But even if you meant out of the 21 prime time hours each week you watch 14 hours of prime time that still puts you in a minority. You need only look at ratings to see that.

The latest numbers I could find had only 25% of all primetime TV viewing on the networks in 2008-2009, so you know it is lower now. And that isn't just the big 4 but included all the minor networks like CW, Univision, ION, etc. Those for whom PTAT makes a difference are in a pretty small minority.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/04/12/where-did-the-primetime-broadcast-tv-audience-go/


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> I do understand the argument as while swm16s and power supplies fail, it's moving parts that are generally more likely.
> 
> But, say you have an hr54 and true relievers. Hr54 fails and you don't have a PI. Whoops! Everything down.
> 
> ...


I was talking about outboard pi for the genie. Pi for the dish is another ball game. I'd never use it if I have something other than one genie and minis. But that's because it can have an effect on your system even if something isn't broken and needs to be replaced.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

inkahauts said:


> I was talking about outboard pi for the genie. Pi for the dish is another ball game. I'd never use it if I have something other than one genie and minis. But that's because it can have an effect on your system even if something isn't broken and needs to be replaced.


What are true relievers. and Pi's ?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Uh, there never was a Vip-722K Hopper, totally different model and was the last of the VIP's made. And it only had 2 tuners. Until the Hopper 3 came out, no Hopper was ever advertised to have more than 3 tuners.
H-1 = original Hopper
H-2 = Hopper W/Sling built in.

My TV is a Sharp UH30 2015 4K model and one of the very few that are THX certified (for whatever that's worth). It has a 70" screen. I'd put it right up there with your Sony every day, and I happen to like the Sony model you have. I was going to get the Sony 930C that I found on a special, but stock was gone by the time I was ready and they never brought them back at the $2500 price I found. 

And no, your receivers and tuners do not work together. Each HR and Genie has its own set of timers and series links that can only be seen on them, only the recordings are unified. IOW, you can see the results of the timers and series links from all of them on the others, you cannot see the actual timers and links, nor can you set one from an HR to another HR or Genie.



Lloyd


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

slice1900 said:


> You're nuts if you think "watching 70% of what is on" puts you anywhere but a _tiny_ minority . I'm assuming you don't mean out of the 84 prime time hours across all four networks per week you watch 58 hours of it, since that's pretty much impossible (and no one could like the crap they put on that much) But even if you meant out of the 21 prime time hours each week you watch 14 hours of prime time that still puts you in a minority. You need only look at ratings to see that.
> 
> The latest numbers I could find had only 25% of all primetime TV viewing on the networks in 2008-2009, so you know it is lower now. And that isn't just the big 4 but included all the minor networks like CW, Univision, ION, etc. Those for whom PTAT makes a difference are in a pretty small minority.
> 
> http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/04/12/where-did-the-primetime-broadcast-tv-audience-go/


Possibly I was using some of ragweed's hyperbole??? 

I watch the scripted shows and most comedies on the broadcast channels. And Survivor. Don't watch any of the 'real life' crap at all.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Uh, there never was a Vip-722K Hopper, totally different model and was the last of the VIP's made. And it only had 2 tuners. Until the Hopper 3 came out, no Hopper was ever advertised to have more than 3 tuners.
> H-1 = original Hopper
> H-2 = Hopper W/Sling built in.
> 
> ...


What was the Model # of Hoppers out in 2012 ?
What do you mean: Unified ?


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Possibly I was using some of ragweed's hyperbole???
> 
> I watch the scripted shows and most comedies on the broadcast channels. And Survivor. Don't watch any of the 'real life' crap at all.


What does hyperbole mean ?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Ragweed, get a dictionary. 

Unified = meaning to combine into one.
Hyperbole = exaggeration

Don't remember the model number, but I'm pretty sure the first Hopper was introduced in 2012. I kind of remember a '213' in the number, but that is just a bit of guessing.

Regardless:
Vip 722K was a 2 tuner DVR with an optional internal OTA tuner.
Hopper and Hopper w/Sling are 3-tuner Hoppers
Hopper 3 is a 16 tuner Hopper


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

One thing I wonder is why Dish doesn't support PTAT (or at least the tuner sharing feature part of it) on the dual tuner DVRs. It is just recording a transponder, which they can do just as well, so I guess they decided to keep it Hopper only? Such a feature is more valuable the fewer tuners you have - so it is more useful on a two tuner box, would be less useful on a five tuner box like Directv's Genie and is of absolutely no use whatever on a 16 tuner Hopper 3.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

I suppose they could have supported PTAT on them, but they were already working on the transponder shuffling and the new receiver when the ideas were being formed, or at least that's the way I look at it. And there are all kinds of indications that the Hopper is THE box that will be the base unit for all new/upgraded installs. In order to further that, why put a new feature on a box that is not going to be around long.

And yes, it would be a valuable add to the Genie. D* might have even got around to doing it if the att buyout hadn't occurred.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Ragweed, get a dictionary.
> 
> Unified = meaning to combine into one.
> Hyperbole = exaggeration
> ...


I was asking you because you don't believe the Genie works like I describe it.
Unified is not quite the right term. (Combine into one)
More like: Totally versatile from each Receiver.
The ONLY reason I switched to Dish was for the (6) Receivers they advertised.
I had (2) with DirecTv on a HR-24
I know the Original Hopper had (3) receivers as I discussed many times with the Tech Dept. 
and they told me it did NOT have (6) but Only (3)
Wish you could remember the Original Model number.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Unified isn't the right term at all, neither is totally versatile.

with D*s HR and Genie equipment, you can see the recordings that have been made on all of them.

You cannot see the timers and series links except on the unit you are in front of.

I'm happy you like D*'s equipment. I don't, and won't consider D* at all unless significant changes are made in how it works and looks. From a channel selection standpoint, either service would be fine. As would Sony's PSVue service and my local cable company for that matter. For me the differences between the services are the equipment and software on them. At this moment in time, nothing comes close to the Hopper 3. It is head and shoulders above all of them, even with the new box bugs that are there.

I think it would be great if there were a hopper available for all the services, but that is a pipe dream.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> I suppose they could have supported PTAT on them, but they were already working on the transponder shuffling and the new receiver when the ideas were being formed, or at least that's the way I look at it. And there are all kinds of indications that the Hopper is THE box that will be the base unit for all new/upgraded installs. In order to further that, why put a new feature on a box that is not going to be around long.
> 
> And yes, it would be a valuable add to the Genie. D* might have even got around to doing it if the att buyout hadn't occurred.


I think it would be more difficult for Directv to do, since their spot beam technology isn't as complex as Dish's. D10/D11/D12 all use identically sized spots with regular spacing, and just fit things in where they need to fit, so they end up with more DMAs that are sharing transponders and/or split across two transponders. D14 is the first that is using spots designed for the DMAs they are going on (i.e. bigger where they need to be, odd shaped where they need to be) Getting the big four onto a single transponder in all markets is probably not possible for them without launching a new spot beam satellite to fix all the markets that couldn't have the big four channels on a single transponder. They could probably do it for most of the country, and get some benefit on some locals for the rest, but such a hit and miss feature would be a hard sell for the marketing folks.

I agree that the Hopper will be their base for everything and maybe by the time it came out they'd effectively abandoned any meaningful feature addition to their previous DVRs, similar to how Directv did for the HR2x series once they introduced the Genie. In a couple years I expect it won't be possible for new customers to add any non Genie/client or Hopper/Joey STBs to their account, just like new Directv customers already can't activate SD hardware on their account.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Unified isn't the right term at all, neither is totally versatile.
> 
> with D*s HR and Genie equipment, you can see the recordings that have been made on all of them.
> 
> ...


OK, What are the timers and series links that are missing ?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks for the info. I don't actually get that deep into the how/why/locations of the satellites and how they are used. I do know that Dish had to do some really complex planning to get the transponders all lined out so that PTAT could become a possibility.

For D* I'm hoping to see a new receiver that can do 4K from a single unit. I think the current requirement of a C61(?) to be added to actually see 4K is one odd way of doing things. With the HR-54 Genie being so new it is hard for me to imagine they didn't think this out better.

One odd thing I noticed when I decided to drop cable and come back to Satellite was that Direct wouldn't authorize a single Genie. I'm sure if I called and pushed on them a bit they probably would have changed their mind, but I'm getting to the point where I just don't want to jump through some idiot hoops to do what makes sense.
So I ordered a Hopper w/Sling and a bit later got a SuperJoey. Would have gotten a SJ with the initial order, but Dish balked at that since I only have one TV. the odder part was when I did order the SJ as an add on it only incurred the monthly cost and not any upfront cost nor truck roll cost. It did of course, kick in 2 years of contract as did my recent update to the Hopper 3.


Lloyd


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Say you have a Genie + 1 HR24.

On the Genie you can see its timers and series links. On the HR24 you can see the timers and series links for it. BUT you cannot see the timers and series links on the HR24 from the Genie and vice verse.


Lloyd


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Say you have a Genie + 1 HR24.
> 
> On the Genie you can see its timers and series links. On the HR24 you can see the timers and series links for it. BUT you cannot see the timers and series links on the HR24 from the Genie and vice verse.
> 
> Lloyd


Yes I have a Genie and (2) HR-24's
What are series links and what timers are there ?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

ragweed10 said:


> Yes I have a Genie and (2) HR-24's
> What are series links and what timers are there ?


You claim to have those units and ask a question like that?

Series links - timers that are recurring for shows with multiple episodes.

Timers - can be a series link, or a single timer for a show not yet on.

You go to the Genie, pull up the DVR menu and then look at the timers and series links. It will have all of them that will fire the Genie when the condition is met.

Same goes for the HR24's.

But each has its own list and that list is NOT shared. Only the actual recording as a result of the actions that are listed on each. And you cannot schedule a recording on the HR24 from the Genie and vice versa.

And with that I'm done explaining what should be apparent to someone that actually has the equipment in front of them.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> You claim to have those units and ask a question like that?
> 
> Series links - timers that are recurring for shows with multiple episodes.
> 
> ...


Now I know what you are talking about.
Yes, you can NOT see what has been programmed for the other units.
I keep a File in my computer to keep track of Pre Programmed shows.
Up Grade that ONLY when there is a change. (New Show I want a recurring recording, Time slot change, etc.)
Never heard that terminology used before. Guess I am kinda dumb. "Series links - timers that are recurring for shows with multiple episodes."
Does the Hopper tell you ALL that information from the other Hoppers ?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Yes, it didn't at first but a later update added that functionality. I've read that if you set a timer on one Hopper and it has conflicts it will schedule it on the other. I never had 2 Hoppers except very early on, so I don't have experience with that. When I had mine, I could see the other's recordings and that was all.

I have the Hopper 3 so none of that is important. With 16 tuners I'll never have a contention.


Lloyd


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> Yes, it didn't at first but a later update added that functionality. I've read that if you set a timer on one Hopper and it has conflicts it will schedule it on the other. I never had 2 Hoppers except very early on, so I don't have experience with that. When I had mine, I could see the other's recordings and that was all.
> 
> I have the Hopper 3 so none of that is important. With 16 tuners I'll never have a contention.
> 
> Lloyd


Thanks for the info. 
Now what does Dish have for additional TV's. Someone said the Joey's were NOT used anymore ?
If they are, do they give you any information ?


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Newer Joeys with the Hopper 3 are an automatic if you upgrade from an existing Hopper/Joey install. A 4K Joey, the Wireless one and a Joey 2(?). Not exactly sure if that last model number is right.
And yes, from the Joeys you see exactly what you see from the Hopper 3 itself. Not sure on previous Joeys/Hoppers. I never had a Joey only the SuperJoey, With the SuperJoey it appeared the same as the Hopper. All 5 tuners (3 in Hopper, 2 in SuperJoey), you the recordings because they are all on the Hopper and you see the timers and 'to do' list just as if you are on the Hopper. Same goes for the Minis.

I think it is the same on the Genie/mini setups but I never had a setup using the mini.


Lloyd


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

*can we please get back to dtv 4k thread's topic ?!*
*:backtotop:*


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

lparsons21 said:


> For D* I'm hoping to see a new receiver that can do 4K from a single unit. I think the current requirement of a C61(?) to be added to actually see 4K is one odd way of doing things. With the HR-54 Genie being so new it is hard for me to imagine they didn't think this out better.


I don't think we will ever see a DVR from Directv that outputs 4K. From what Directv and AT&T have said about their future direction, what will replace the Genie is a DVR that has no video output at all (or a video output only intended for diagnostic use, not viewing) All viewing will be done via clients/ RVU TVs.

Assuming that's their direction, the lack of 4K output on the HR54 makes more sense. You also have to consider that when they started its design, it would have been too early for chipsets that implement everything needed for 4K. The reason Dish didn't release the Hopper 3 until very recently is because if they had released it a year earlier they would have been in the same boat, and the parts they would need to design in at the time they were designing it wouldn't exist.


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

Good Lord.............. :bang


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

I WANT MORE said:


> Good Lord.............. :bang


When your members make ridiculously inaccurate statements about the "other" equipment, it requires correction. Nuff said...


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## alnielsen (Dec 31, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> When your members make ridiculously inaccurate statements about the "other" equipment, it requires correction. Nuff said...


That can be taken care of in a PM.


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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

Ok for the not too technically ..

I have a Genie and a three Mini's .. Today the Genie is connected to my main TV.
If I want to do a 4k TV : 
1) if I get a TV with a RVU - what does that TV get connect to the Genie or a Mini or either?
2) If I get a TV without a RVU - I know the Genie can't connect to the 4k TV but assuming I want to put the 4K in my main TV place - I know I have to get an HR54 but do I have to connect it to a different TV and connect the proper Mini to the 4K. Do I then lose the stuff that only works with the Genie like PIP?

So exactly what would a setup have to be?

Thanks


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

1) If your 4K TV is of a model that is "DIRECTV 4K Ready" it can connect to the HR54 Genie directly via a DECA adapter over the MoCA coax network. Or you can later switch it to access the Genie over an ethernet network once the TV passes the setup 4K compatibility test while connected to the coax network.

Or you can decide not to use the TV's built in RVU capabilty and connect it to a C61K client box as many choose to do. Therefore you would need to order the 4K client box for this option.

2) The DIRECTV technician will want a two TV setup to install 4K with the C61K client, where the HR54 is placed on a non-4K TV. And the C61K cleint on the 4K TV. You may though switch this later yourself to locate both the Genie and 4K client on the 4K TV if you wish. 

Though you would need to have two coax runs for them to the 4K TV. Or split one coax feed with a 2 x 1 DIRECTV MoCA compliant splitter.



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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Oh, sorry forgot ...

To use PiP on the 4K TV you would need to locate the Genie and the C61K at the 4K TV as in #2 above. With the Genie on one HDMI input to the TV and the C61K on another input.

You would use the Genie's HDMI feed for PiP and any non-4K programming. And the C61K for 4K programming or any non-4K as well. The C61K cannot do PiP.

It would be a somewhat confusing setup this way I know ...

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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Does anyone know if the reverse band LNB will be required for the Masters broadcast? The installer didn't put one on.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

nope


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> When your members make ridiculously inaccurate statements about the "other" equipment, it requires correction. Nuff said...


Who are you taking about and what do you disagree with?


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Deleted.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Rich said:


> Nope, no changes made. Can't tell from the Playlist which HR the content was recorded on, just the dates, time it was recorded and the channel it was recorded on.
> 
> Rich


Sure you can, the name of the unit it was recorded on is in the info when you press "info".


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Who are you taking about and what do you disagree with?


That was my question as well but I didn't want to extend that conversation any longer. :goodjob:


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Sure you can, the name of the unit it was recorded on is in the info when you press "info".


It also appears in the UPL at the beginning of the program description at the top for the highlighted recording selected in the list.

That is, whenever the selected recorded show is located on another DVR from the DVR or STB receiver the UPL is being displayed on.

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## CTJon (Feb 5, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Oh, sorry forgot ...
> 
> To use PiP on the 4K TV you would need to locate the Genie and the C61K at the 4K TV as in #2 above. With the Genie on one HDMI input to the TV and the C61K on another input.
> 
> ...


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

That really Cleared it up !


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## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

Getting back to "the meat" of this thread........

My Sony started having some problems, so I just picked up a Sammy SUHD-48JS8500 4K, supposed to be "DirecTv 4K ready". That makes my current set-ups (only listing D* equipment):

Main theater is A Sammy UN55D8000 connected to an HR34 genie. Man cave theater is the new Sammy connected to an HR24. All internet connected, whole home activated, and geniego. There is no option on putting the/a genie in my man cave (keeping a happy wife  ). Glad I found this thread after the confusion generated by calling D* to inquire what I would need and the cost to get 4K programming, won't even go into all of the misinformation I was given.

From what I have read here, I would need to upgrade the HR34 to an HR54, but contrary to what D* said, I can leave it in the main theater. The 4K Sammy in the man cave could be connected through RVU or a C61K, either providing what little 4K programming is available. But, I would need to upgrade my package! Can the HR24 be included in the man cave to retain the 7 tuner total in the current set-up? I'm happy for those for whom 5 tuners is sufficient, but even though there are only 2 of us in the household, it is not infrequent that all 7 tuners are in use (what else is there for we "old folk" to do? :shrug: ).

While it would be great to try out 4K with The Masters, I just can't justify the effort and cost just to go back to virtually no 4K after that. I have no regrets spending the money on a 4K set as the picture quality with the up-conversion of HD channels as well as blu rays is amazing! So I think I am going to check into the other options available should I upgrade my download speeds sufficient for 4K streaming. I also saw that the new Sammy 4K blu ray player is available as well as some 4K movies, but a bit pricey as well at this point.

Sorry for getting a bit wordy, but looks like I will put upgrading D* service on hold and still curious if my system could keep an HR24 in service (paragraph 3)?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

OlderNDirt said:


> Getting back to "the meat" of this thread........
> 
> My Sony started having some problems, so I just picked up a Sammy SUHD-48JS8500 4K, supposed to be "DirecTv 4K ready". That makes my current set-ups (only listing D* equipment):
> 
> ...


I've got the same TV. Wonderful isn't it? I have a bunch of 24s on my MRV system if that helps. Like you, I'm not doing anything else until D* has more content, if that's even possible.

Rich


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## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

Rich said:


> I've got the same TV. Wonderful isn't it? I have a bunch of 24s on my MRV system if that helps. Like you, I'm not doing anything else until D* has more content, if that's even possible.
> 
> Rich


It might not be a fair comparison going from a 7 year old 40" to a new 48" 4K, But after calibrating, I am finding the picture to be amazing.

I guess what I am wondering is if the HR24 and C61K can both be hooked up to one tv and operate together or independently without problems. I would think they would operate as two independent components and just set up the Harmony remote to treat them as such.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

OlderNDirt said:


> It might not be a fair comparison going from a 7 year old 40" to a new 48" 4K, But after calibrating, I am finding the picture to be amazing.
> 
> I guess what I am wondering is if the HR24 and C61K can both be hooked up to one tv and operate together or independently without problems. I would think they would operate as two independent components and just set up the Harmony remote to treat them as such.


First glad, but even more surprised you and your wife in particular are enjoying the performance of the horrendous HR34. 

Anyway, DIRECTV usually won't install both a C61K and an HR24 on the same TV. Your best options would be to purchase the C61K from a third party seller like SolidSignal and install it yourself.

Or, use your old TV (if you still have it) and have DIRECTV when they come to install the C61K move the HR24 to the old TV (IOW, order a three TV installation). Then sometime after the installation move the HR24 back to the 4K in your mancave.

In both cases you will need to split the satellite feed to the 4K TV with a 2 x 1 DIRECTV green lable splitter for both the C61K and the HR24. And of course need to use 2 HDMI inputs on the 4K TV.

Someone else will have to explain how to program the Harmony to control both components separately. Not my specialty as I've never had one. 

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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

HoTat2 said:


> Anyway, DIRECTV usually won't install both a C61K and an HR24 on the same TV. Your best options would be to purchase the C61K from a third party seller like SolidSignal and install it yourself.
> 
> In both cases you will need to split the satellite feed to the 4K TV with a 2 x 1 DIRECTV green lable splitter for both the C61K and the HR24. And of course need to use 2 HDMI inputs on the 4K TV.
> 
> ...


That's just silly. I don't know any Tech that would pass on that upgrade.

Your on your own for the Harmony.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

samrs said:


> That's just silly. I don't know any Tech that would pass on that upgrade.
> 
> Your on your own for the Harmony.


Huh?

Why wouldn't a tech. "pass" on what he believes is a three TV install?

A C61K on the 4K TV, the HR34 on a non-4K TV, and the HR24 on a second non-4K TV?

Then after the tech. is gone the customer moves the HR24 himself...

To clarify, I never told the customer to tell the tech. he was going to move the HR24 later this way.

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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

samrs said:


> That's just silly. I don't know any Tech that would pass on that upgrade.
> 
> Your on your own for the Harmony.


If you buy a C-61 from a 3rd party (Solid State) or USE a RVU, do you need to PAY DirecTV $ 7.00 a month for their use ?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Yes. Keep in mind, getting a box from solid signal is still a lease. But even fully owned boxes are charged the fee. 



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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

dpeters11 said:


> Yes. Keep in mind, getting a box from solid signal is still a lease. But even fully owned boxes are charged the fee.
> 
> Sent from my Priv using Tapatalk


What is the advantage to get them from Solid State ?
What about the Monthly $ 7.00 fee on a RVU equipped TV ? Do we have to pay that ?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

The benefit of getting a receiver from a reseller like SS is that you know what you're getting. It was more important when you needed to make sure you got an HR24, HR44 etc. For 4k you have to get a hr54 so more limited benefit there, especially if for 4k they require a tech. 

An activated RVU TV still has the fee applied. The only time that's waived is the primary receiver on an older account. 


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ragweed10 said:


> What is the advantage to get them from Solid State ? ...


"SolidSignal" ... 

In this case for the C61K, ordering from a third party seller means the customer can install it the way he wishes without jumping through hoops with DIRECTV and their techs. such as placing both a C61K and an HR24 on the same TV.

But the main advantage in most instances is you get the receiver model you want, whereas if DIRECTV installs it or drop ships it to you for a customer installation, in many cases they send you whatever model is available in the warehouse or whatever a tech. happens to have on his truck as long as the receiver is in the same family type.



> ... What about the Monthly $ 7.00 fee on a RVU equipped TV ? Do we have to pay that ?


Yep ...

Sorry, how do you say "Br'er Rabbit," ... if he don't getcha in one way, then he gets you the other ...

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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

dpeters11 said:


> The benefit of getting a receiver from a reseller like SS is that you know what you're getting. It was more important when you needed to make sure you got an HR24, HR44 etc. For 4k you have to get a hr54 so more limited benefit there, especially if for 4k they require a tech.
> 
> An activated RVU TV still has the fee applied. The only time that's waived is the primary receiver on an older account.
> 
> Sent from my Priv using Tapatalk


Thanks for the info. 
Sounds like we can't get away from the Fees no matter what.
Did you hear DTV saying a HR-44 will work with C-61 for 4-K ?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

ragweed10 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> Sounds like we can't get away from the Fees no matter what. ...


Nope, Br'er Rabbit effect ...



> ... Did you hear DTV saying a HR-44 will work with C-61 for 4-K ?


For VOD yes ...

Linear 4K, no

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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

As far as I know, at this point the 54 is required for 4k from an install standpoint, I saw that on the Solid Signal blog. 

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## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> First glad, but even more surprised you and your wife in particular are enjoying the performance of the horrendous HR34.
> 
> Anyway, DIRECTV usually won't install both a C61K and an HR24 on the same TV. Your best options would be to purchase the C61K from a third party seller like SolidSignal and install it yourself.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info/suggestions.

First, I didn't say we were "enjoying" the performance of the HR34 :ewww:  . She would rather tolerate its slowness then have to get everything recorded on it watched for a switch and then would have to re-setup all her season passes. That's why I don't want to give up my HR24.

My original intent was to put the old Sony upstairs in a bedroom with an unwired mini (not sure of official name) since there is no wiring anywhere upstairs. And not sure what they would charge for getting wiring up there, but they would probably be my best option if it could be controlled from my man cave from the Sammy RVU or C61K. If I just order the wireless mini for upstairs, I have no idea if they would put in the C61K without it being a 4K tv. And if I understand correctly, the C61K can view playlist from all DVR's, but can only control or set up recordings to the genie. With the lack of current programming, I think I have time to explore other options.

Should I ever get everything set up, I have no problem configuring a Harmony to control everything. Seems it would only take 2 "activities" depending on if watching 4K or not.


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## samrs (May 30, 2004)

Currently if we install a a C61 there has to be an HR54 on the account for us to be able to close the job. Beginning April 7 there has to be a reverse band lnb. 

Plenty of folks have more than one box on a TV.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

samrs said:


> Currently if we install a a C61 there has to be an HR54 on the account for us to be able to close the job. Beginning April 7 there has to be a reverse band lnb.
> 
> Plenty of folks have more than one box on a TV.


I know they do, but will DIRECTV techs install them that way. That is, more than one receiver or client on the same TV?

If so then great, I stand corrected. Ok, so unless OlderNDirt wants to selectively purchase what he needs from a third party retailer and install it all himself. Then he needs an order for an HR54 in the HT room (sorry about his wife's recordings), install a C61K and an HR24 on the new 4K TV in the mancave. A C41W and WVB for the old Sony TV now moved upstairs. Then swap the LNB for a new Reverse Band model one for 4K future proofing.

Is that an acceptable WO?

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I know they do, but will DIRECTV techs install them that way. That is, more than one receiver or client on the same TV?


Yes, they don't care.


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## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

Man! I'm feeling like Danny Glover in _Lethal Weapon_...... "I'm getting too old for this %@&$!" I've always prided myself in keeping up with technology, not just having the newest/latest but understanding it and how it works, and others used to ask my opinion for help purchasing or troubleshooting a problem. But this is getting ridiculous for the common consumer.

OK! Momentary brain malfunction over and back on topic:

So, in its simplest form, if I only have one 4K tv, there would be an HR54 and a C61K........in the same location, right? And I would assume only the C61K would connect to the 4K tv, in effect operating said tv as though it were another tv in another room? I would also have to believe an HR54 can be connected to and function with a non-4K tv totally "ignoring" its 4K capabilities?

If anywhere even close to correct on this, I fail to understand any problem with having an HR24 and C61K set up together on a second system. I can see where there would be no viewing of "live" tv from the HR24, effectively relegating it to an additional recording capability function whose playlist would still be viewable on both systems with whole home. Basically what I would be doing is adding a third very simple system of HR24 and tv, but using a second input on tv #2 in place of a third tv. Or, simpler yet, just adding the C61K to my current second system with the 4K tv (yes, with some hookup modifications)?

With all that, yes, it really comes down to will D* do it and at what cost? But with the minimal 4K viewing options, there appears to be no hurry in finding out.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

OlderNDirt said:


> So, in its simplest form, if I only have one 4K tv, there would be an HR54 and a C61K........in the same location, right?


If you have only one TV of any resolution connected to DIRECTV you are correct. If you have more than one TV you can place the HR54 at the second TV location and the C61K at the 4K TV location.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

OlderNDirt said:


> Man! I'm feeling like Danny Glover in _Lethal Weapon_...... "I'm getting too old for this %@&$!" I've always prided myself in keeping up with technology, not just having the newest/latest but understanding it and how it works, and others used to ask my opinion for help purchasing or troubleshooting a problem. But this is getting ridiculous for the common consumer.
> 
> OK! Momentary brain malfunction over and back on topic:
> 
> ...


That's what had me confused;

I thought that DIRECTV would not install a C61K and a Genie on the same 4K TV and then went on to assume this prohibition extended to installing any 2 receivers on 1 TV. This would be something the customer would have to do on his own. Therefore, I was having problems figuring out how to have DIRECTV install what amounts to 4 receivers in your three TV household.

But if I am wrong on thinking both installation options were not allowed and DIRECTV will indeed install a C61K plus a Genie (as awkward as that would be). Or a C61K plus an HR24 on a single TV, then no problem.

I stand corrected as I said ...

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

This is only a temporary situation. Later this year or early next year Directv will have a new DVR out that will replace the HR54. It sounds like it will not have any video output at any, but if that's not the case and it does have video output safe to say it will be 4K. So one way or another this situation will be resolved pretty soon.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

OlderNDirt said:


> It might not be a fair comparison going from a 7 year old 40" to a new 48" 4K, But after calibrating, I am finding the picture to be amazing.
> 
> I guess what I am wondering is if the HR24 and C61K can both be hooked up to one tv and operate together or independently without problems. I would think they would operate as two independent components and just set up the Harmony remote to treat them as such.


I haven't had to change one setting on my 65" JS8500. I know that sounds odd, but I got a good picture right out of the box and saw no need for changes in the menus.

I don't understand why you can't put the HR24 and the C61K on the same TV, or the 54 and the C61K for that matter.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

samrs said:


> _*That's just silly. I don't know any Tech that would pass on that upgrade.*_
> 
> Your on your own for the Harmony.


I don't understand that. Could you elucidate?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Yes. Keep in mind, getting a box from solid signal is still a lease. _*But even fully owned boxes are charged the fee.*_
> 
> Sent from my Priv using Tapatalk


I had a calm argument with a Retention CSR about that the other day. He tried to baffle me with BS, but I asked him to listen to my words and told him what I thought about having to pay a monthly fee for owned equipment and he ended up agreeing with me. Not that it changed anything, but he was pretty rational, if not well informed.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> I know they do, but will DIRECTV techs install them that way. _*That is, more than one receiver or client on the same TV?*_
> 
> If so then great, I stand corrected. Ok, so unless OlderNDirt wants to selectively purchase what he needs from a third party retailer and install it all himself. Then he needs an order for an HR54 in the HT room (sorry about his wife's recordings), install a C61K and an HR24 on the new 4K TV in the mancave. A C41W and WVB for the old Sony TV now moved upstairs. Then swap the LNB for a new Reverse Band model one for 4K future proofing.
> 
> ...


I've had multiple HRs on TVs for years. No installer has ever balked at this. I just had a guy out to install a splitter on one of my plasmas so I could put another HR on it. He didn't say anything about doing that, just did what I wanted him to do.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> That's what had me confused;
> 
> I thought that DIRECTV would not install a C61K and a Genie on the same 4K TV and then went on to assume this prohibition extended to installing any 2 receivers on 1 TV. This would be something the customer would have to do on his own. Therefore, I was having problems figuring out how to have DIRECTV install what amounts to 4 receivers in your three TV household.
> 
> ...


I guess I'm missing something. Why would that be awkward?

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> I guess I'm missing something. Why would that be awkward?
> 
> Rich


If you don't block the IR signal on one, it could be considered awkward. Depending on the remote, changing inputs and such to switch between boxes (assuming you don't just do everything from the client.)


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## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

slice1900 said:


> This is only a temporary situation. Later this year or early next year Directv will have a new DVR out that will replace the HR54. It sounds like it will not have any video output at any, but if that's not the case and it does have video output safe to say it will be 4K. So one way or another this situation will be resolved pretty soon.


Thanks for that info. While there is certainly some time to wait, it would be nice to at least see how much better true 4K would be before spending a fair amount of money and updating/adding equipment just to see. Seems like Amazon or Netflix would be an easier and cheaper option for such a trial. Once there, would a D* subscriber change back to D* at their additional cost since just the programming package upgrade would be comparable to the other subscriptions.



Rich said:


> I haven't had to change one setting on my 65" JS8500. I know that sounds odd, but I got a good picture right out of the box and saw no need for changes in the menus.
> 
> I don't understand why you can't put the HR24 and the C61K on the same TV, or the 54 and the C61K for that matter.
> 
> Rich


It might be the size difference or that one of the first things I watched on mine included a lot of very dark night time scenes that seemed very dark to my old eyes. Don't get me wrong, it was very realistic and lifelike, but I have a donor cornea in one eye and found it a bit uncomfortable over a period of time, similar to me not liking to drive for very long at night (sucks to get old, but not bad considering the alternative  ) Anyway, ran my Disney WOW calibration, but found somebody else's recommended setting that I rather like, so went with those.


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## OlderNDirt (Mar 17, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> If you don't block the IR signal on one, it could be considered awkward. Depending on the remote, changing inputs and such to switch between boxes (assuming you don't just do everything from the client.)


It would be my intent to only use the HR24 for setting up recordings (mostly season passes) leaving it in off mode mostly. I am assuming both the HR24 and C61K have on/off control like any other box. If so, with the Harmony One remote, separate "activities" could be set up for each and that would control which is on or off and what inputs/settings are needed for each "activity".


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

OlderNDirt said:


> Thanks for that info. While there is certainly some time to wait, it would be nice to at least see how much better true 4K would be before spending a fair amount of money and updating/adding equipment just to see. Seems like Amazon or Netflix would be an easier and cheaper option for such a trial. Once there, would a D* subscriber change back to D* at their additional cost since just the programming package upgrade would be comparable to the other subscriptions.


I'm willing to bet the requirement for a high level package to get 4K is also a temporary situation. Once there are enough 4K channels they'll offer 4K service with a separate fee, just as was done with HD. But it might be some time before there are enough 4K channels for that to make sense.

Right now 4K is being sold to early adopters who have to have the latest and greatest thing, and Directv is going to make them pay. If Dish, Comcast and others started offering 4K at any package level Directv might be forced to follow, but they are the only game in town for live 4K programming. We'll have to wait and see how other providers handle their pricing and package levels for 4K.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

OlderNDirt said:


> It would be my intent to only use the HR24 for setting up recordings (mostly season passes) leaving it in off mode mostly. I am assuming both the HR24 and C61K have on/off control like any other box. If so, with the Harmony One remote, separate "activities" could be set up for each and that would control which is on or off and what inputs/settings are needed for each "activity".


You should be able to use an alternate IR code on the HR24.

I have a HR54 and C61K on one TV, I had to block the IR on the client, I mainly wanted to use the 54, so that a tuner wasn't being used unnecessarily for live tv.


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## ragweed10 (Jul 10, 2013)

Rich said:


> I had a calm argument with a Retention CSR about that the other day. He tried to baffle me with BS, but I asked him to listen to my words and told him what I thought about having to pay a monthly fee for owned equipment and he ended up agreeing with me. Not that it changed anything, but he was pretty rational, if not well informed.
> 
> Rich


Have you heard any NEW information about the FCC wanting to pass a NEW law requiring Cable and Satellite companies to allow us to Purchase equipment and NOT pay a Monthly RENTAL fee for owned equipment ? 
They are trying to make TV viewing affordable to people. And maybe slow down the Cable Cutting.


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

ragweed10 said:


> Have you heard any NEW information about the FCC wanting to pass a NEW law requiring Cable and Satellite companies to allow us to Purchase equipment and NOT pay a Monthly RENTAL fee for owned equipment ?
> They are trying to make TV viewing affordable to people. And maybe slow down the Cable Cutting.


if it's true - finally... customer's must money talk


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

ragweed10 said:


> Have you heard any NEW information about the FCC wanting to pass a NEW law requiring Cable and Satellite companies to allow us to Purchase equipment and NOT pay a Monthly RENTAL fee for owned equipment ?
> They are trying to make TV viewing affordable to people. And maybe slow down the Cable Cutting.


Even if they pass it and it survives the potential for a new administration reversing it, it will take years to phase in. So it would be nice to see but it wouldn't change anything in the short run. Also, it wouldn't stop companies from charging a monthly fee if they call it something other than rental like Directv does.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

slice1900 said:


> Even if they pass it and it survives the potential for a new administration reversing it, it will take years to phase in. So it would be nice to see but it wouldn't change anything in the short run. Also, it wouldn't stop companies from charging a monthly fee if they call it something other than rental like Directv does.


Yep, this has been discussed at length ...

Don't have a link to the main thread at the moment, but the problem is from a fee standpoint at least, providers can simply charge monthly fees for the gateways they supply you in addition to a monthly fee for each stream to an individual client box.

Br'er Rabbit strikes again ... 

Sent from my SGH-M819N using Tapatalk


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

Maybe with the new system DTV will let consumers use their own devices anyway? It would be cool if DTV would allow a consumer to use Windows 10 PC's, Laptops and tablets as client devices. Also allow the PS4 and Xbox One as client devices.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

ragweed10 said:


> Have you heard any NEW information about the FCC wanting to pass a NEW law requiring Cable and Satellite companies to allow us to Purchase equipment and NOT pay a Monthly RENTAL fee for owned equipment ?
> They are trying to make TV viewing affordable to people. And maybe slow down the Cable Cutting.


I did read about changes in those fees, but nothing recently.

Rich


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Rich said:


> I had a calm argument with a Retention CSR about that the other day. He tried to baffle me with BS, but I asked him to listen to my words and told him what I thought about having to pay a monthly fee for owned equipment and he ended up agreeing with me.


Does anyone pay a recurring lease fee? Doesn't the "additional receiver fee" show up on the bill exactly the same whether the equipment is leased or owned?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

ragweed10 said:


> They are trying to make TV viewing affordable to people. And maybe slow down the Cable Cutting.


Why would the FCC care about cable cutting? Consumer protection, yes that is something the FCC will do. But discouraging a customer choice? The FCC should be encouraging new methods of delivering content.


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## CraigerM (Apr 15, 2014)

James Long said:


> Why would the FCC care about cable cutting? Consumer protection, yes that is something the FCC will do. But discouraging a customer choice? The FCC should be encouraging new methods of delivering content.


Even if the TV providers complied with those FCC regulations you still wouldn't save any money. The TV providers would still charge a TV Fee because you are still using your device on their network.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

James Long said:


> Does anyone pay a recurring lease fee? Doesn't the "additional receiver fee" show up on the bill exactly the same whether the equipment is leased or owned?


It used to be different, a lease fee for leased boxes and a mirroring fee for owned.


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## fleckrj (Sep 4, 2009)

dpeters11 said:


> You should be able to use an alternate IR code on the HR24.
> 
> I have a HR54 and C61K on one TV, I had to block the IR on the client, I mainly wanted to use the 54, so that a tuner wasn't being used unnecessarily for live tv.


What is the difference between using the HR54 to watch live TV and using the C61K? Either way, you are still using one tuner off the HR54 to watch live TV.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Good point 

Though before I blocked IR on the client, both tended to be on at the same time.

But I generally still don't see a point to use a remote client on a general basis.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

dpeters11 said:


> Good point
> 
> Though before I blocked IR on the client, both tended to be on at the same time.
> 
> But I generally still don't see a point to use a remote client on a general basis.


I know PiP won't work from a client, but does DP?

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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> I know PiP won't work from a client, but does DP?


Yes


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

James Long said:


> Does anyone pay a recurring lease fee? Doesn't the "additional receiver fee" show up on the bill exactly the same whether the equipment is leased or owned?


Yup, they call it that too. I pay for each of my 9 HRs that I bought and own. The additional receiver fee does show up on my bill and would include leased receivers if I had any.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> It used to be different, a lease fee for leased boxes and a mirroring fee for owned.


Whatever they call it, it annoys me. And even if you only have leased HRs, the payments should stop after a certain time period, just as the leased car payments do.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> Good point
> 
> Though before I blocked IR on the client, both tended to be on at the same time.
> 
> But I generally still don't see a point to use a remote client on a general basis.


I was thinking about the whole IR remote thing and can't you go to Settings and change the remote's IR frequency under the Advanced options box? I've done this while having two 24s on IR in the same room. I don't know if either the 54 or the C61K has that option for the remotes.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Rich said:


> Whatever they call it, it annoys me. And even if you only have leased HRs, the payments should stop after a certain time period, just as the leased car payments do.
> 
> Rich


I can imagine, your receiver fees are sizable.


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

Rich said:


> Whatever they call it, it annoys me. And even if you only have leased HRs, the payments should stop after a certain time period, just as the leased car payments do.


What sort of a car lease do you have where payments stop? When the car payments stop you have the option to return the car or buy it at a reduced price, but you don't get to keep it without payments. Its the difference between leasing an apartment that you do not and never will own even if you lived there for 50 years, and making mortgage payments on a house that you own and payments end when the principal is paid off.

The per TV fee (whatever anyone calls it) is just a way for Directv to add revenue. If they didn't charge it, they'd have to charge more for packages which would make them less competitive compared to cable and Dish - who also have per TV fees for the exact same reason. The "full acquisition price" for Directv gear (i.e. $199 for DVR, $99 for receiver, etc.) is Directv's acquisition price, they just pass it along. Of course many people get those free, but it is easy to see how quickly they pay them off. At $7/month that's only 7 months for an HD client. Even at $299, a Genie is paid off in 42 months, and since Directv gets at least five years out of them there's plenty of profit even when they give them away. Cable companies that charge $15 and up for their DVRs do even better.

Its like what Willie Sutton said when asked why he robbed banks, "because that's where the money is". On average, people who have a dozen TVs have more money than people have one or two TVs, so they are more willing to pay more.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

You know Netflix charges based on streams at one time too. The difference is dtvs and cable is more of a fixed number of streams and tvs always being available everywhere where as Netflix is a number of streams but they can be seen anywhere. One must wonder what formula DIRECTV could use to creat that kind of system...


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## slice1900 (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm sure Directv could come up with something if market shifts cause them to want the change the way they bill.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dpeters11 said:


> I can imagine, your receiver fees are _*sizable*_.


And they are getting tiresome.

Rich


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