# What size UPS do I need? Advice please.



## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

After the first of what I'm sure will be many summer power glitches, I want to finally buy a UPS, but I have no idea what size I need.

Into my UPS, I will be plugging in:

1. Two HR20s (one 300GB? and one 1TB)
2. One 750GB FreeAgent Pro external drive
3. One TiVo box (200GB internal drive)

_How big I need, i.e., what's a good minimum size to meet my requirements?_

_And, is it okay to put the UPS into the back of the equipment cabinet, which has limited airflow (never had a problem with anything overheating in it) or will I have to put it outside of the cabinet?_


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

I have a APC Back-UPS XS 1500 w/ a 50" Plasma, Sony A/V receiver, HD-DVD, HR20, and sub woofer and it lasts about 13 minutes if i recall from the last time I tested it.

This unit does not have a fan, but still generates heat. Your situation may be a try and keep an eye on it.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

What would be the minimum power/load requriements for a basic setup?

Say...

Plasma
HD/DVR(am21)
HTIB

Mike


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

The answer to your question depends somewhat on the reliability of your local power. I don't want my DVR's to suffer uncommanded power interuptions _ever_. So in addition to avoiding momentary power outages like I had today, I want them to run as long as possible on battery backup, in case I am not around to shut them down. Therefore I use the same UPS as *HDTVsportsfan*, i.e., a big one.

Preserving the life of the bulbs in projection TV's is a similar problem, but usually if they're running, you can turn them off soon after a power failure begins so that the DVR's will continue to run as long as possible. I don't run anything else on the battery side of the UPS. DVR's will run quite a long time on a 1,500 watt UPS, if that's all that's being powered.

BTW, I do the same thing with routers and modems. Those things will run for a long time on a 550 watt UPS. Suffice it to say, when the power goes off around here, which is fairly often, it gets very noisy. Drives my Labrador retriever nuts.


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## puffnstuff (Sep 2, 2006)

Sorry to chim in but the UPS thread is just to big . Is it worth it to go with the A/V version or does it matter ?


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

puffnstuff said:


> Sorry to chim in but the UPS thread is just to big . Is it worth it to go with the A/V version or does it matter ?


A/V ups's aren't necessary... i use the APC smart ups line... sine-wave is a good feature to have... but not imperative...


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Steve Rhodes said:


> After the first of what I'm sure will be many summer power glitches, I want to finally buy a UPS, but I have no idea what size I need.
> 
> Into my UPS, I will be plugging in:
> 
> ...


you need to add up the wattage on everything... and it also depends on how long you want it to run.... if one runs at full load for 10 miuntes... and you've only got enough to take up half the load... then it'll run for 20 minutes... etc...

check out some of these on buy.com... pretty good prices... http://www.buy.com/specialty_store_5/cyberpower/64903.html?1=1


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## puffnstuff (Sep 2, 2006)

AirRocker said:


> A/V ups's aren't necessary... i use the APC smart ups line... sine-wave is a good feature to have... but not imperative...


Thank you ! exactly what I was looking at .


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

puffnstuff said:


> Thank you ! exactly what I was looking at .


no problem... 

the smart ups are very good, but they can get pricey... this is the one I have... http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-APC-S...ryZ99265QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think it's technically the 'Dell' branded one... so it's much less expensive than the normal retail model... which i think runs close to $600... but they are identical... It supports my entire system for 20~25 minutes (TV, HR21, & audio receiver)...

I have this one in my bedroom... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...500va&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1122654248983

doesn't last quite as long... (i think the plasma sucks it dry)... but not bad for the money...

my mom just bought 2 of these and is very happy with them...

http://www.buy.com/prod/cyberpower-...0-watts-avr-8-outlet/q/loc/101/204297449.html


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## armophob (Nov 13, 2006)

Any standard 450-650 w will cover your equipment if you are not putting the tv on it. If you start wanting to back up the tv then you need to check the watts on it.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm running a couple of these in the house
http://www.powerprosinc.com/store/powerware-9125-1000.html

also have a few APC 550's running.


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> I'm running a couple of these in the house
> http://www.powerprosinc.com/store/powerware-9125-1000.html.....


Had to hold back on the "Add to Cart" on those at $640 each.....


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## MikeekiM (Oct 1, 2006)

I heard a guy in BB "consulting" with an elderly couple that a home theater line conditioner will help improve their picture :nono2:

He was already closing on a flat panel sale and was trying to sell them more accessories with it...


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## heaphus (Oct 30, 2006)

I run a couple of these, they work great. 1500va/900 watts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102048

Slightly smaller model with free shipping right now. 1350va/810 watts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102070


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

K4SMX said:


> Had to hold back on the "Add to Cart" on those at $640 each.....


lol, go ahead you know you want to.
the networking cards on them are great. if I have another pc on ANY ups I can install the powerware client and have that pc shutdown according to the schedule I assign it from the 9125. it acts as a server for client control.
can be controlled through html page or telnet/hyperterminal setup or through a serial connection to a master client.
can also add expansion battery modules (EBM) to them for increased life.

6 controlled outputs setup in 2 separate banks too, so I can shut down just some items while leaving other items hooked to it running. I've run my modem/router/and 3 switches for 48 hours before.


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## MountainMan10 (Jan 31, 2008)

I have a small UPS. My main concern are the short 1 second or less blips. If the power goes out for 15 minutes or more, oh well, it is only TV. I'll go out and mow the lawn. If I miss a recording once every 3 years because of a long outage, not a big deal. Where I live, short blips are fairly common. Outages lasting more than 5 minutes are extremely rare.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

K4SMX said:


> The answer to your question depends somewhat on the reliability of your local power. I don't want my DVR's to suffer uncommanded power interuptions _ever_. So in addition to avoiding momentary power outages like I had today, I want them to run as long as possible on battery backup, in case I am not around to shut them down. Therefore I use the same UPS as *HDTVsportsfan*, i.e., a big one.


As do I. And I don't put my plasma TV on a battery backed outlet.


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## SubSlr08 (Dec 4, 2007)

Here in FL we often get little thunderstorms that will 'glitch' the power for a few seconds. I have a 40" LCD and HR21 running off of a TrippLite 750va unit. It will run these both about 12-15 minutes, or the HR21 alone for about 40 minutes. We seldom have outages that long . . . Soon I plan to add an eSATA drive into the mix so those times will drop somewhat, I'm sure.
The TrippLite is just a computer unit with no real bells and whistles - just a serial port that I don't use. It's been on the job for a couple of years now and doing well. I think the original cost was somewhere around $100 on eBay when I got it. 
Good luck~!


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

AirRocker said:


> you need to add up the wattage on everything... and it also depends on how long you want it to run.... if one runs at full load for 10 miuntes... and you've only got enough to take up half the load... then it'll run for 20 minutes... etc...
> 
> check out some of these on buy.com... pretty good prices... http://www.buy.com/specialty_store_5/cyberpower/64903.html?1=1


Where the heck do I find the wattage?

I figured someone would just know the answer to my original question since my components are pretty common.


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

armophob said:


> Any standard 450-650 w will cover your equipment if you are not putting the tv on it. If you start wanting to back up the tv then you need to check the watts on it.


Thanks!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

My only answer for a question of this type is 1.21gigawatts...

(Then again it is very late...) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## K4SMX (May 19, 2007)

Steve Rhodes said:


> Where the heck do I find the wattage?
> 
> I figured someone would just know the answer to my original question since my components are pretty common.


Watts = Volts x Amps. It's all on a label somewhere on each piece of equipment or in the Owner's Manual.

Example: Rating is 120 volts @ 0.7A. 120 x 0.7 = 84 watts


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Steve Rhodes said:


> I figured someone would just know the answer to my original question since my components are pretty common.


but not everyones incoming power is the same. you may run slightly off spec causing the ups to take a little load a little more often, this reduces the efficiency a bit.
good rule of thumb is to find the total wattage and add 20% as a safety factor. if total wattage is 400 look for something around 500.


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## dryfly (May 26, 2008)

bwaldron said:


> As do I. And I don't put my plasma TV on a battery backed outlet.


Wouldn't it be very important to protect your plasma from intermittent power disruptions just like your other components?


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## dyker (Feb 27, 2008)

I have the same question, why not UPS your plasma?


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

K4SMX said:


> BTW, I do the same thing with routers and modems. Those things will run for a long time on a 550 watt UPS. Suffice it to say, when the power goes off around here, which is fairly often, it gets very noisy. Drives my Labrador retriever nuts.


Haha had my first long outage since I UPS'd everything up, and man it was annoying. I had 6 different units beeping like crazy all over the place.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

marksman said:


> Haha had my first long outage since I UPS'd everything up, and man it was annoying. I had 6 different units beeping like crazy all over the place.


lol, first thing I did on my units without faceplate configuration was open it and YANK that little speaker.
god, I forgot how annoying that was.


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## cartrivision (Jul 25, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> lol, first thing I did on my units without faceplate configuration was open it and YANK that little speaker.
> god, I forgot how annoying that was.


The APC units are software configurable to turn off the power failure beep alarm.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

May I suggest that you get one capable of generating 1.21 gigawatts :lol:


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

cartrivision said:


> The APC units are software configurable to turn off the power failure beep alarm.


if plugged into pc first, most people just pull out of box and hook up.
also some household level apc's reset the config if removed from pc communication.


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

dyker said:


> I have the same question, why not UPS your plasma?


Power usage. I have it connected to the UPS, just not a battery-backed outlet.

We have a good number of outages down here during storm season. I'd rather have the juice to run the DVR longer to ensure fewer scheduled recordings get missed due to power loss. The plasma sucks a lot of power and significantly drops the time I can run on battery power.

Just a personal choice.


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## prospect60 (Aug 26, 2006)

I think I'd consider getting a smaller UPS just for the plasma in lightning country. I know nothing can help with a direct hit, but those nearby power pops and surges can't be good for a plasma and even a small unit will make those 5-15 second outages/brownouts more tolerable.

I think I currently have 3 bigger APC computer UPS (900-1300VA) and at least 4 small units (350VA) I got for $20 during various sales for the TIVO/DVR and VCR's scattered throughout the house. All except the computer units had the alarms turned off when I installed them to save the beeping orchestra. It's not like Florida, but NC gets enough thunderstorms to make it worthwile.


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## bubbers44 (Jan 23, 2007)

I have 4 APC units. Each one supplied one 60 inch LCD and a DVR or my main computer, router, modem, 750GB external hard drive and external DVD writer. 

A few months ago we had a big power surge, typical in south Florida, and everything was protected and beeped except my wife's laptop, which was then only protected by a small surge protector that did nothiing. She had to have her hard drive replaced for 600 dollars but everything else was fine. She now has the battery backup too. People say the laptop is already protected by it's battery but it didn't help her that time.

The LCD tvs only are about 230 watts. I know the Plasmas are a lot more. With our dirty power here, I wouldn't ever not use a battery back up and just rely on surge protection.


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## bubbers44 (Jan 23, 2007)

Sorry, 3 are 800VA units and the one for laptop is a 350VA.


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

armophob said:


> Any standard 450-650 w will cover your equipment if you are not putting the tv on it. If you start wanting to back up the tv then you need to check the watts on it.


Am I correct that, if for the sake of easy computation, I get a 1000w (=1kW) UPS, then I will be using 1kW of power every hour?

Here in California, the rates are sharply graduated so that every extra KW hour I use cost me 40 cents. If that is the case, then the UPS (assuming a 1000w system) would cost me $9.60 a day to have around or $288 a month in electrical cost. It would not be worth it.

So, how much electricity does a 1,000w UPS use on standby? Anyone?


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## morgantown (Nov 16, 2005)

Steve Rhodes said:


> Am I correct that, if for the sake of easy computation, I get a 1000w (=1kW) UPS, then I will be using 1kW of power every hour?
> 
> Here in California, the rates are sharply graduated so that every extra KW hour I use cost me 40 cents. If that is the case, then the UPS (assuming a 1000w system) would cost me $9.60 a day to have around or $288 a month in electrical cost. It would not be worth it.
> 
> So, how much electricity does a 1,000w UPS use on standby? Anyone?


No, you won't be using 1kw an hour. It of course needs to charge up and thay typically takes a bit longer that an hour. No clue as to the standby draw - but it is no where in the vicinity of its total backup capacity.


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

morgantown said:


> No, you won't be using 1kw an hour. It of course needs to charge up and thay typically takes a bit longer that an hour. No clue as to the standby draw - but it is no where in the vicinity of its total backup capacity.


I wonder how I figure out the standby draw, since that could be the major cost of the unit, that is if the power required during standby is very much.

How much electricity it uses when on standby will be a major determining factor in how big of a unit I purchase. I wonder how I figure this out. I looked on the boxes at Fry's and they were of no help.


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

APC has a new line of units with a green accent on the boxes identifying them as "Green", use less electricity. They are much more efficient than earlier models. Once the battery is charged most UPS's use very little power to maintain the battery.


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## PAJeep (Mar 8, 2008)

davring said:


> APC has a new line of units with a green accent on the boxes identifying them as "Green", use less electricity. They are much more efficient than earlier models. Once the battery is charged most UPS's use very little power to maintain the battery.


just to add to this the new "Green" APC uses master/controlled outlets. If you have a computer plugged in to the master switch when it's in sleep mode it will shut down power to unused peripherals (printers, scanners etc...) reducing the power draw. So yes it will use less electricity but only if you use it they way they intended.


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## looney2ns (Sep 20, 2007)

Steve Rhodes said:


> Am I correct that, if for the sake of easy computation, I get a 1000w (=1kW) UPS, then I will be using 1kW of power every hour?
> 
> Here in California, the rates are sharply graduated so that every extra KW hour I use cost me 40 cents. If that is the case, then the UPS (assuming a 1000w system) would cost me $9.60 a day to have around or $288 a month in electrical cost. It would not be worth it.
> 
> So, how much electricity does a 1,000w UPS use on standby? Anyone?


I have an APC 650 watt UPS here, and according to my KillAWatt meter, it use's 21 watts to maintain the battery.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

here's a discussion: http://www.apc-forums.com/thread.jspa?messageID=4309&#4309


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## dsm (Jul 11, 2004)

Re: Why not put the plasma on a UPS?

The UPS is for uninterrupted power and usually has surge/line protection. A surge protector or line conditioner alone is for clean power to keep a device from getting damaged. 

So, if you want the device to keep working when the power is out, connect it to the battery lines on a UPS. Otherwise, if you just want to protect it from damage use a surge protector/line conditioner. Most UPS's have ports which are protected, but not powered by the battery.

If your display device has a bulb or tubes then you probably want it on a battery backed UPS line so that the bulbs/tubes don't get damaged by a sudden outage. The DVR on a UPS makes sense because it can continue to record and you don't want the hard drive damaged. I'm not aware that Plasma can be damaged by a sudden power loss so for me I would not bother to back that up with a battery.

steve


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

looney2ns said:


> I have an APC 650 watt UPS here, and according to my KillAWatt meter, it use's 21 watts to maintain the battery.


Case closed. You've told me exactly what I need to know. It will cost me $4 month to run it or thereabouts.

Thanks!


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

Steve Rhodes said:


> After the first of what I'm sure will be many summer power glitches, I want to finally buy a UPS, but I have no idea what size I need.
> 
> Into my UPS, I will be plugging in:
> 
> ...


Today I got a Cyberpower 1500va/900watt system. I have no idea how long the battery will last given my configuration above. Any ideas?


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## illuminations25 (Dec 27, 2007)

We've been getting blips in our power here over the past several days and had the power company come out and look into it. The problem is not here in the house, but the line behind my home will likely have to be capped at my property since we're the only house still left on our block and the line continues down the rest of the street. The electrical co. thinks that something is interfering with the line down the road somewhere, but they've only added the capping project to their to do list and the tech that came out today said that could literally take them "forever" to get to.

I'm looking for a UPS that's going to handle my LCD (265 watts) a DirecTV HD DVR (700 model) and possibly a gaming console that might be on at the time. I have the big three of consoles, but no more than 1 will be on at a time and the PS3 is the biggest power hog so I'm saying it's a safe 210 watts for any particular gaming console.

So in total I should be safe with anything around 800 watts.

Anyone have any experience with CyberPower brand units, or should I stick with APC? The APC that I was looking at only has 340 joules I believe for surge supression. The CyberPower has 1500 joules.

CyberPower: http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1214637331&sr=8-2

APC: http://www.amazon.com/APC-BR1500LCD...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1214636640&sr=8-3

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

Steve Rhodes said:


> Today I got a 1500va/900watt system. I have no idea how long the battery will last given my configuration above. Any ideas?


If it's like my APCs, just plug the usb line into a computer and it will tell you..


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## bwaldron (Oct 24, 2005)

illuminations25 said:


> Anyone have any experience with CyberPower brand units, or should I stick with APC?


My experience with Cyberpower hasn't been good. I've used a few in the past because they were cheap, but they crapped out early in their lifespan. I've had much better luck with my APC units.

A small sample, I know...but you asked


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## PAJeep (Mar 8, 2008)

illuminations25 said:


> Anyone have any experience with CyberPower brand units, or should I stick with APC? The APC that I was looking at only has 340 joules I believe for surge supression. The CyberPower has 1500 joules.
> 
> Any thoughts are appreciated.


My experience with CyberPower has been short but good so far. I have the 1350 connected to my a/v setup. 18 minutes run time with surround sound / HDMI switch / Sony SXRD and HR20 on and over an hour with just the DVR. The LCD display on the front is great too since I don't have a pc hooked up to it but only time will tell if the unit is worth it. I know that APC has models with a front display too but the price of the CyberPower is just too attractive. buy.com has the 1350 for around $120 with free shipping (about 70 less than Amazon). Difference between it and the 1500 is marginal.


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

PAJeep said:


> My experience with CyberPower has been short but good so far. I have the 1350 connected to my a/v setup. 18 minutes run time with surround sound / HDMI switch / Sony SXRD and HR20 on and over an hour with just the DVR. The LCD display on the front is great too since I don't have a pc hooked up to it but only time will tell if the unit is worth it. I know that APC has models with a front display too but the price of the CyberPower is just too attractive. buy.com has the 1350 for around $120 with free shipping (about 70 less than Amazon). Difference between it and the 1500 is marginal.


What does the front display tell you?


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## PAJeep (Mar 8, 2008)

Steve Rhodes said:


> What does the front display tell you?


Did you get the 1500/900 without the front LCD Display? The display cycles through Input/Output Voltage, Battery Status, Load Level, Run time and Output Power Frequency. The same can be seen via USB cable to computer along with the ability to do additional tasks. First thing I did was hooked it up and disabled the audible alarm.


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## Steve Rhodes (Oct 4, 2006)

PAJeep said:


> Did you get the 1500/900 without the front LCD Display? The display cycles through Input/Output Voltage, Battery Status, Load Level, Run time and Output Power Frequency. The same can be seen via USB cable to computer along with the ability to do additional tasks. First thing I did was hooked it up and disabled the audible alarm.


I got the display. I'm just trying to figure out how to make sense/use of what it tells me. The only thing I really want to know is how long it will keep my equipment up in the case of a power outage. Is that "run time" means?


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## houskamp (Sep 14, 2006)

yep


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## chrisvandermerwe (Jun 12, 2007)

I had my CyberPower 1500/900 for less than a week and last night it kicked in after a short brown out. w00t


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## illuminations25 (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks for all of the responses so far. I'm leaning toward the APC model I posted. I guess what I really am worried about is the joule protection from the APC that I mentioned in my previous post. I checked and it is only 340 joules. I'm really only getting this to prevent from these brownouts that I'm experiencing. Should I be worried about the low number? If we get storms in the area, I routinely unlug my electrical equipment.


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