# DIRECTV App / Jailbreak discussions



## Stuart Sweet

This is the official thread for discussing the use of jailbroken or rooted hardware with DIRECTV devices and DIRECTV service.

You may:

Discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking or rooting.

You may not:

Discuss how to jailbreak or root
Discuss how to hack apps to work with jailbroken or rooted hardware
Attack others who choose to exercise their legal right to modify purchased hardware
In any way discuss any violation of terms&conditions, customer agreements, or in any other way break forum rules.

Go!


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## Sgt. Slaughter

dualsub2006 said:


> It's called encryption. Netflix uses it as does HBO. They allow rooted use because they've taken their own steps to protect their content and aren't relying solely on hardware DRM.
> 
> Neither is streaming content in the clear after passing simple authentication, but that doesn't mean that their content can't be swiped. It can be.
> 
> .......
> But it's not crap. You think you know you're right but that doesn't make it any less possible for streams to be stolen on rooted/jailbroken devices.
> 
> It can be done. Do I know how to do it? Actually, I don't. It's not that hard to figure out.
> 
> Do I know that DirecTV is using weak or no encryption past authentication? No, I don't. !


As for the droid being blocked b/c it was rooted im sorry i forgot about that as i had an evo4g and we got the app quick on our device and dont remember being blocked b/c of root ever. regardless they haven't cared/blocked in awhile, and now fully support being rooted now.

So your saying that b/c this content is being streamed live that it can't be encrypted like Netflix/HBO are doing???

Im not saying nor have I ever said that it wasn't "possible" to steal the stream even on netflix/hbo apps. What I will say is that I find it very hard to believe that regular programing networks will req more security than the film studios would. 
Hence my whole argument saying that if Netflix can get away with allowing it on rooted devices then so should DIRECTV as long as they take the steps Netflix has taken.

But if its impossible to do what netflix does with movies on a delayed stream then ill end my argument right now. I just dont think thats the case less someone would like to explain why it is.

I just think this is the first step for streaming for them and rather than take the time to do the steps Netflix/hbo has in their app they figured rather get it out to some first and then expand it to "jailbroken" devices later. Which would be just like Netflix did with their rollout.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

Stuart Sweet said:


> This is the official thread for discussing the use of jailbroken or rooted hardware with DIRECTV devices and DIRECTV service.
> 
> You may:
> 
> Discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking or rooting.
> 
> You may not:
> 
> Discuss how to jailbreak or root
> Discuss how to hack apps to work with jailbroken or rooted hardware
> Attack others who choose to exercise their legal right to modify purchased hardware
> In any way discuss any violation of terms&conditions, customer agreements, or in any other way break forum rules.
> 
> Go!


adjust thread title to be concerned with DIRECTV iPad App Jailbreak issues so this doesn't invite everyone who jailbreaks to the convo that we were having before which was centered around why they are blocking those devices....??


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## Stuart Sweet

Is that better?


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## Sgt. Slaughter

Stuart Sweet said:


> Is that better?


haha itll do. thanks. Just wanted somewhat productive talk and not, ppl spoutin reason they do ro dont jailbreak and how good or bad it is. lol

you the man as usual!


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## gio12

Thanks Stuart.


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## dualsub2006

"Sgt. Slaughter said:


> So your saying that b/c this content is being streamed live that it can't be encrypted like Netflix/HBO are doing???


No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't know if DirecTV is employing their own software encryption or if they are only using the iPad hardware DRM.

It's possible that it's an if/then proposition for DirecTV:

IF you don't provide software encryption THEN you block jailbroken devices.

IF you utilize software encryption THEN you can allow jailbreak devices in.

It's speculation and nothing more, but I spent weeks researching this topic for an article that was never posted. It's a trainwreck of possibilities.


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## cypherx

Thanks Stuart. I wanted to comment on the other thread but I promised to keep my mouth shut after just letting this one suggestion in.

If the iPad is JB then don't display streaming options. Still allow control features to work as they did in 1.2.6

If the iPad is unmodified carry on with the new streaming options.

This is my FAIR proposal.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

dualsub2006 said:


> No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't know if DirecTV is employing their own software encryption or if they are only using the iPad hardware DRM.
> 
> It's possible that it's an if/then proposition for DirecTV:
> 
> IF you don't provide software encryption THEN you block jailbroken devices.
> 
> IF you utilize software encryption THEN you can allow jailbreak devices in.
> 
> It's speculation and nothing more, but I spent weeks researching this topic for an article that was never posted. It's a trainwreck of possibilities.


Then we are pretty much on the same page then for the most part.

in the other thread i was just getting at the point that if Netflix can develop their app to be sound and pass the req the film studios want then there should be a way for DIRECTV to do the same. Which would in turn allow the app to be used on "jailbroken/rooted" devices.

I just dont buy the argument people were saying in there that the reason it is the way it is, is b/c DIRECTV doesn't want the content stolen and it could be part of the agreements made. I just can't see a regular programing station asking for stricter req than the major film studios do of Netflix.

And with that said i think/hope that this app version is just like Netflix's first few Android versions where it was only on certain secure devices and then later evolved shortly after into supporting all devices and even rooted ones directly now.


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## NR4P

If you aren't an Apple developer, then you may not know that Apple tests apps before they are published. I've had some rejected for the oddest reasons. Perhaps, just maybe, Apple wouldn't pass it without certain safeguards or blocks in place that weren't there for the prior version.


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## Scott Kocourek

Please read the first post before you start posting.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

NR4P said:


> If you aren't an Apple developer, then you may not know that Apple tests apps before they are published. I've had some rejected for the oddest reasons. Perhaps, just maybe, Apple wouldn't pass it without certain safeguards or blocks in place that weren't there for the prior version.


doubt it, if they let netflix work on jailbroken devices they wouldn't flinch at this one. less the way DIRECTV did the encryption was troublesome and they had to remove it and figured to just only allow it on non jailbroken devices in the mean time while they fix it.

unlikely thats what happened though.


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## Combat Medic

Just annoys me that when DRM is discussed it is always a way of restricting me from using content that I've paid for.


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## Stuart Sweet

Well, the thing is, you haven't paid to buy it, you've paid to license it. It's all in the terms and conditions. You don't have the unlimited right to do as you wish with the content.


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## Combat Medic

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, the thing is, you haven't paid to buy it, you've paid to license it. It's all in the terms and conditions. You don't have the unlimited right to do as you wish with the content.


OK, how about if I point out that all this restriction does is annoy paying customers? Somebody that wants a HD rip of a video will still get it.


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## Tom Robertson

Combat Medic said:


> OK, how about if I point out that all this restriction does is annoy paying customers? Somebody that wants a HD rip of a video will still get it.


I have locks on the doors to my house. They annoy the heck out of me, don't stop the real thieves, but slow the casual kleptomaniac.

I have a password on my computer for the same reason (and also annoys the heck out of me.)

I use parental controls on my video equipment so that my grandkids don't stumble upon things they aren't ready to see. (And so the 2 year old doesn't change channels and buy lots of PPV playing with the remote.) 

There are many restrictions we put upon ourselves that don't really stop the determined. And I don't particularly care for DRM. But it does stop the ignorant from running wild copying things they should know better but don't.

(I even ran into a police officer who didn't understand copying software was illegal...)

Cheers,
Tom


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## NR4P

Stuart Sweet said:


> Well, the thing is, you haven't paid to buy it, you've paid to license it. It's all in the terms and conditions. You don't have the unlimited right to do as you wish with the content.


Well put. Many of us take for granted the "I agree" on the license agreements without ever reading them. Got a new iphone today and there it was, the complete license agreement and had to agree to it.


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## dualsub2006

"Combat Medic" said:


> OK, how about if I point out that all this restriction does is annoy paying customers? Somebody that wants a HD rip of a video will still get it.


Yep, just like some people will walk in to a store and put the things that they want in their pocket instead of a cart, some people will download HD rips.

DirecTV isn't annoying me, because before yesterday I couldn't stream anything to my iPad. Legally. Now I can. That's ok by me.

If you make the choice to jailbreak your iPad and circumvent the control over the device that Apple intended and developers expect, you have no right to ***** when a developer precludes you from using their app.


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## Diana C

I have not tried to JB my iPad or iPhone, but I have rooted my Android phone (don't ask why I have an iPhone AND a Droid). In rooting my phone I gained several things - I am now running Gingerbread on a phone that officially supports Froyo, I am running HTC Sense 3.0, and I get double the battery life I got with the stock Verizon ROM. However, I also gave up access to the Verizon account management app and a few other conveniences. Do I complain about Verizon's lack of support for my hardware? No...if I want their apps to run, I can go back to the officially supported environment. I made the choice to root my device and I decided to flash it with a different ROM. Verizon made the choice to not release installable versions of "My Verizon".

The point is that we have the right to do what we want with our hardware. But DirecTV also has the right to do what they want with their software. You don't like what they did? Don't use it. That's all there is to it.


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## cypherx

Jailbreaking IOS brings some good tweaks to iphones and ipads. Some ones I like are:

SBSettings - Swipe at the top for a slide down menu with easy toggles for brightness, wifi, airplane mode, bluetooth, show running processes, app shortcuts, etc...

Deep End - Tweak that slightly shifts the background based on device position (uses accelerometer and gyroscope) Icons stay put but when you rotate the device it almost looks 3D because their shadows and background shift so slightly

FlashLock - On an iphone, double tap the home button on the lock screen and a button will appear to turn on the flash. Makes a great flashlight.

Speed Intensifier - Tweak all of Apples animation effects to speed them up and get in/out of programs faster. I love the animation effects Apple put into the OS, it's great visual feedback... however the ability to slightly speed it up makes it feel even quicker.

MyVolume - specify apps to change the volume to a default level, or tweak the volume buttons on the device. Ever have your phone in silent and go to watch a YouTube video. Bam, your blasted by volume because the silent mode only affects ring and text tones. MyVolume can sense if YouTube is open and start at 1 bar if you want.

Activator - You can add a shortcut to an application or an action based on a button press or certain screen swipe, or combination of things. Great way for shortcuts!

Barrel - Adds a plethora of Compiz fusion style animation effects when paging between screens of icons.

iBlacklist - Firewall style call and SMS filtering. Amazing flexibility since the carriers can't block specific numbers.

MyWi - Bluetooth or wifi tethering from phone to any bluetooth or wifi enabled device(s).

There's also tweaks for a 5 icon dock at the bottom, different themes and stuff like iFile and Terminal let you access the device. There's ways to share files via SSH or even install a built in webserver. It's just amazing the flexibility you get.

There's plugins to add information to your lock screen, reply to an SMS without leaving the current application and more. Jailbreaking is not about Piracy. It's about taking control of your device and adding the features you want. In fact you can't even pirate apps out of the box from a Jailbreak. You have to know the right patches and programs and sources to get free apps. It's NOT included.

Will DirecTV for Ipad always be easy to patch? Maybe not. I'm sure this will be a cat and mouse game. While today it's a simple toggle in a config file... I bet they made it that way on purpose to test their JB detection routines. That way if they made a mistake, they could just get past that in the lab. Maybe when they are confidant their JB detection works to their standards and there are no false positives, they will bake it right into the application binary turned on just like the Nomad app. There's no patch for Nomad yet, likely because not enough people have it.


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## TBlazer07

Since they obviously see the JB The app should be smart enough to just not allow streaming. I would not have taken the update had I known it would disable the app entirely.


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## Stuart Sweet

Personally I haven't jailbroken, and I probably won't. If it were just me, I might. Or if I had an extra device, I might. But I already participate in a number of other betas, and I don't really want to worry about the stability of my phone. The reason I have iOS devices is that I don't want to spend any more of my spare time on tech support.


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## TBlazer07

Stuart Sweet said:


> Personally I haven't jailbroken, and I probably won't. If it were just me, I might. Or if I had an extra device, I might. But I already participate in a number of other betas, and I don't really want to worry about the stability of my phone. The reason I have iOS devices is that I don't want to spend any more of my spare time on tech support.


 Well, I have had 3 iPhones over the years (don't currently have one now) and a iPad 2 (just got it) and all have been jailbroken 5 minutes out of the box and I never had the slightest semblance if INstability. Never a reboot, crash or anything else.

Not wanting to do it is perfectly understandable but don't believe all the "instability" hype you may read.


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## Stuart Sweet

It's not about hype, it's about an incredible tendency to break things that other people can't break. It's what makes me a good tester.


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## gio12

dualsub2006 said:


> Yep, just like some people will walk in to a store and put the things that they want in their pocket instead of a cart some people will download HD rips.


Not even the same thing. Lets not generalize and call someone hoe JB their phone a thief.


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## Stuart Sweet

As I said in post 1, this isn't about people who exercise their legal rights.


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## gio12

Stuart Sweet said:


> Personally I haven't jailbroken, and I probably won't. If it were just me, I might. Or if I had an extra device, I might. But I already participate in a number of other betas, and I don't really want to worry about the stability of my phone. The reason I have iOS devices is that I don't want to spend any more of my spare time on tech support.


Then you don't even understand the basics of JB a phone your iOS device.
It's not just Tech Geeks, its everyday people, just wanting something that Apple won't offer for millions of unexplained reason. Some things very basic. Some for other stuff, legal or ethical or not.

It's nothing beta about it. I can tell you JB works better than almost any function besides basic DVR stuff that D* has done, beta or not. My D* DVRs give me more bus, issues, instability and headaches than a JB has EVER done. Line Boxee and XMBC are more reliable than Media Share and MVR IMO many times. Only available via a JB.

So it's nice to see that you don't make comments or judgements on JB as you don't understand even the most basic concept of it. That's fine, because a lot of people don't. Until they are informed and realize its NOTHING and very reliable and LEGAL!


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## gio12

Titan25 said:


> I have not tried to JB my iPad or iPhone, but I have rooted my Android phone (don't ask why I have an iPhone AND a Droid). In rooting my phone I gained several things - I am now running Gingerbread on a phone that officially supports Froyo, I am running HTC Sense 3.0, and I get double the battery life I got with the stock Verizon ROM. However, I also gave up access to the Verizon account management app and a few other conveniences. Do I complain about Verizon's lack of support for my hardware? No...if I want their apps to run, I can go back to the officially supported environment. I made the choice to root my device and I decided to flash it with a different ROM. Verizon made the choice to not release installable versions of "My Verizon".
> 
> The point is that we have the right to do what we want with our hardware. But DirecTV also has the right to do what they want with their software. You don't like what they did? Don't use it. That's all there is to it.


Verizon won't support a ROOTED device like you said. Apple/AT&T/Verizon and Sprint *WILL* support a JB iOS device. Big difference. So its not Apples to Apples.

Also AT&T has NEVER denied the use of ANY of their Official Apps on a JB iOS device. All there apps including UVERSE are supported fully!

Jailbreaking is NOT rooting or adding a custom ROM to your device. Hell, I had a custom ROM on my Motorola Razr V2 yrs ago and AT&T helped me I had an issue and warranty problems.


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## gio12

cypherx said:


> In fact you can't even pirate apps out of the box from a Jailbreak. You have to know the right patches and programs and sources to get free apps. It's NOT included.


Correct, but don't confuse people with the facts. To do this, you MUST add an a UNAPPROVED source/repositories that CYDIA and the JB community WR YOU is illegal and could be harmful to your device. because Cydia is a open source system, illegal activity is allowed, but discouraged.


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## cypherx

gio12 said:


> Correct, but don't confuse people with the facts. To do this, you MUST add an a UNAPPROVED source/repositories that CYDIA and the JB community WR YOU is illegal and could be harmful to your device. because Cydia is a open source system, illegal activity is allowed, but discouraged.


Right. Just pointing out that directly out of the box, you cannot use jailbreaking for piracy. There are a few additional steps to take.

Therefore Jailbreaking does not equal piracy... I don't know why some people think that is the number 1 reason to jailbreak.


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## Chris Blount

I jailbroke my iPhone a while back. It was fun to tinker with it but I did run into problems such as battery issues and stuff. After a while, I reverted back. 

I know you guys claim that you run into zero problem and jailbreak your phones right out of the box. What I don't understand is if you immediately jailbreak your phones, how do you know they are working like they should if you never experience them in an un-jailbroken state?

All I'm saying is that claiming zero problems is a bit much. Heck, I even have problems when my phone is un-jailbroken.


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## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> Not even the same thing. Lets not generalize and call someone hoe JB their phone a thief.


Uh, you quoted my post. It says right in the part that you quoted. I compared downloading HD rips with shoplifting, not jailbreaking.


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## Smidgerine

cypherx said:


> Jailbreaking IOS brings some good tweaks to iphones and ipads. Some ones I like are:
> 
> SBSettings - Swipe at the top for a slide down menu with easy toggles for brightness, wifi, airplane mode, bluetooth, show running processes, app shortcuts, etc...
> 
> Deep End - Tweak that slightly shifts the background based on device position (uses accelerometer and gyroscope) Icons stay put but when you rotate the device it almost looks 3D because their shadows and background shift so slightly
> 
> FlashLock - On an iphone, double tap the home button on the lock screen and a button will appear to turn on the flash. Makes a great flashlight.
> 
> Speed Intensifier - Tweak all of Apples animation effects to speed them up and get in/out of programs faster. I love the animation effects Apple put into the OS, it's great visual feedback... however the ability to slightly speed it up makes it feel even quicker.
> 
> MyVolume - specify apps to change the volume to a default level, or tweak the volume buttons on the device. Ever have your phone in silent and go to watch a YouTube video. Bam, your blasted by volume because the silent mode only affects ring and text tones. MyVolume can sense if YouTube is open and start at 1 bar if you want.
> 
> Activator - You can add a shortcut to an application or an action based on a button press or certain screen swipe, or combination of things. Great way for shortcuts!
> 
> Barrel - Adds a plethora of Compiz fusion style animation effects when paging between screens of icons.
> 
> iBlacklist - Firewall style call and SMS filtering. Amazing flexibility since the carriers can't block specific numbers.
> 
> MyWi - Bluetooth or wifi tethering from phone to any bluetooth or wifi enabled device(s).
> 
> There's also tweaks for a 5 icon dock at the bottom, different themes and stuff like iFile and Terminal let you access the device. There's ways to share files via SSH or even install a built in webserver. It's just amazing the flexibility you get.
> 
> There's plugins to add information to your lock screen, reply to an SMS without leaving the current application and more. Jailbreaking is not about Piracy. It's about taking control of your device and adding the features you want. In fact you can't even pirate apps out of the box from a Jailbreak. You have to know the right patches and programs and sources to get free apps. It's NOT included.
> 
> Will DirecTV for Ipad always be easy to patch? Maybe not. I'm sure this will be a cat and mouse game. While today it's a simple toggle in a config file... I bet they made it that way on purpose to test their JB detection routines. That way if they made a mistake, they could just get past that in the lab. Maybe when they are confidant their JB detection works to their standards and there are no false positives, they will bake it right into the application binary turned on just like the Nomad app. There's no patch for Nomad yet, likely because not enough people have it.


I still think one of the best apps is XBMC. I put all my Blu-Rays on my NAS and just stream the MKVs. Sure wish my upload bandwidth on cable could handle that outside the house. xcellent! I also like the emulators. Now, I do realize that you can get all of the ROMS and that is obviously piracy. However, if you own the old games, I don't have a problem with that. And my stash of video games and systems from the Atari 2600 to now is staggering!


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## markrogo

"iBlacklist - Firewall style call and SMS filtering. Amazing flexibility since the carriers can't block specific numbers."

Verizon can block 5 numbers through a web-based function.


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## Stuart Sweet

Smidgerine, do you put all your Blu-rays on a NAS or just the ones that you have the contractual right to reproduce?


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## cypherx

"markrogo" said:


> "iBlacklist - Firewall style call and SMS filtering. Amazing flexibility since the carriers can't block specific numbers."
> 
> Verizon can block 5 numbers through a web-based function.


AT&T told us they can't block anything.

I can block an unlimited list of numbers, area codes or even create an allow only list. You can password protect it too which helps keep kids safe if need be. Blocked callers can be sent to VM right away, or get a fast busy, or accept and hangup.

Though that's just one app.

XBMC sounds awesome too. Might have to try that.


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## NR4P

Serious question, not a shot.

When people Jailbreak their phone with something they downloaded off the web, how do they know what exactly is being done? I'm not an iOS expert and can't get into the deep down code. So when one JB's the phone, can you be 100% sure something else isn't being introduced into your phone? Example: Maybe a key logger for passwords?

I know there are many benevolent coders out there but I'm also sure some aren't.


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## Diana C

gio12 said:


> Verizon won't support a ROOTED device like you said. Apple/AT&T/Verizon and Sprint *WILL* support a JB iOS device. Big difference. So its not Apples to Apples.
> 
> Also AT&T has NEVER denied the use of ANY of their Official Apps on a JB iOS device. All there apps including UVERSE are supported fully!
> 
> Jailbreaking is NOT rooting or adding a custom ROM to your device. Hell, I had a custom ROM on my Motorola Razr V2 yrs ago and AT&T helped me I had an issue and warranty problems.


No, it's Apples to Droids. 

Support of a JB iPhone by AT&T is irrelevant. People here have said "it's my hardware and I can do what I want with it." True.

What is also true is that it is DirecTV's software and they can do what they want with it. If you don't like the restrictions they set forth, don't use their software.


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## gio12

Chris Blount said:


> I jailbroke my iPhone a while back. It was fun to tinker with it but I did run into problems such as battery issues and stuff. After a while, I reverted back.
> 
> I know you guys claim that you run into zero problem and jailbreak your phones right out of the box. What I don't understand is if you immediately jailbreak your phones, how do you know they are working like they should if you never experience them in an un-jailbroken state?
> 
> All I'm saying is that claiming zero problems is a bit much. Heck, I even have problems when my phone is un-jailbroken.


Since they day I owned my first iPod Touch the day they came out years ago, to getting my first iPhone last year, I JB basically out of the box. How do I know? Because I have upgraded OS' at times early or on purpose and then had t wait for the JB to come. So I can tell you, either way, I have had ZERO problems. Yes, some times the Springboard will crash on a JB phone, but that's very rare for me. Zo I will claim zero problems, because that happens on a non-JB too. JB will NOT cause battery issues. Loading apps or preferences that drain your battery will. That's a fact. Can JB cause problems? Sure, I messed up my iPod Touch once with too many conflicting apps and it just got funky. Removed one app and it was butter!

I bricked my iPhone during an update because the *I* messed up the process. My iMac would them not get the phone in DFU mode. I went to Apple and they restored it. But they upgraded the OS and left my without a JB of 2 months at one point. The issues with my iMac not restoring the phone was a Mac issue, not a JB thing. I booted under windows once while it happened on my wife's phone after messing the JB up once, and it worked. But not under my Mac, until I cleared the cache and stuff up. Both time I messed up the JB process. But using the JB website way way fool proof.


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## gio12

Titan25 said:


> No, it's Apples to Droids.
> 
> Support of a JB iPhone by AT&T is irrelevant. People here have said "it's my hardware and I can do what I want with it." True.
> 
> What is also true is that it is DirecTV's software and they can do what they want with it. If you don't like the restrictions they set forth, don't use their software.


No it's not. You said VZW won't support a rooted Aroid phone, so why should D*. I said AT&T will support a JB and let you run there apps.

AT&T won't restrict you on, VZW and DIRECTV do.

Then D* should have made the app form DAY 1 incompatible with a JB iOS.

My point is it's STUPID not to support a JB and a fix will be found within a day, anytime they try. Why fight it with money and resources when you will lose in the end. There really is no harm in reality. sorry.


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## gio12

NR4P said:


> Serious question, not a shot.
> 
> When people Jailbreak their phone with something they downloaded off the web, how do they know what exactly is being done? I'm not an iOS expert and can't get into the deep down code. So when one JB's the phone, can you be 100% sure something else isn't being introduced into your phone? Example: Maybe a key logger for passwords?
> 
> I know there are many benevolent coders out there but I'm also sure some aren't.


You don't. You have to TRUST your source. Same thing with Android in any form, including stock. Many Apps in Android market place have been malware, virus, etc. That's open source for you!

I never had had an issue with the JB community. I am also the guy who doe snOT get viruses, etc on his PC, ever.


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## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> Then D* should have made the app form DAY 1 incompatible with a JB iOS.


D* did make the app incompatible with jailbroken devices from day 1. Of streaming. The scope of what the app does has changed and so have the rules that D* has to live by.



"gio12" said:


> My point is it's STUPID not to support a JB and a fix will be found within a day, anytime they try. Why fight it with money and resources when you will lose in the end. There really is no harm in reality. sorry.


D* meets their obligation to their partners by blocking jailbreak devices. Even though the hacking community can fix it in no time, D* did their part. It takes seconds, literally seconds to make an app do a jailbreak test when it runs. The time and resources involved with one developer writing one little bitty bit of code isn't keeping anyone up at night.

The number of D* customers that will seek a solution to the blocking is a tiny, tiny fraction of users. I doubt that D* really cares about the few that will actually do it.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

dualsub2006 said:


> D* did make the app incompatible with jailbroken devices from day 1. Of streaming. The scope of what the app does has changed and so have the rules that D* has to live by.
> 
> *D* meets their obligation to their partners by blocking jailbreak devices.* Even though the hacking community can fix it in no time, D* did their part. It takes seconds, literally seconds to make an app do a jailbreak test when it runs. The time and resources involved with one developer writing one little bitty bit of code isn't keeping anyone up at night.
> 
> The number of D* customers that will seek a solution to the blocking is a tiny, tiny fraction of users. I doubt that D* really cares about the few that will actually do it.


This is a pretty big assumption by you here. no one will know the real answer to this less they are the ones involved in the contract talks themselves or spoke to the ppl that did personally.
I can't see regular programing stations requiring them to block jailbroken devices while the major film studios allow Netflix to stream and SUPPORT fully rooted android devices now.

I think its more along the lines that the provider req's it be secure and DIRECTV couldn't get their encryption method up to snuff in time and in turn just decided to release it but block jailbroken devices till they figure out a way to do it like netflix does. 
Just my personal thought, as i still can't see regular program providers having bigger issue with streaming than major film studios.


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## Sgt. Slaughter

dualsub2006 said:


> ....
> 
> *The number of D* customers that will seek a solution to the blocking is a tiny, tiny fraction of users. I doubt that D* really cares about the few that will actually do it*.


dont think the number really matters all that much. If so then your telling me that there are wayyyy more Netflix subscribers that are running CM7 ROM on their android device than there are DIRECTV subs with jailbroken devices.....
Just saying b/c till last update CM7 users were not supported by Netflix, and they went out of their way to fix that.


----------



## Chris Blount

First you say this:



gio12 said:


> So I can tell you, either way, I have had ZERO problems.


And then you say this:



gio12 said:


> Yes, some times the Springboard will crash on a JB phone, but that's very rare for me.





gio12 said:


> Can JB cause problems? Sure, I messed up my iPod Touch once with too many conflicting apps and it just got funky. Removed one app and it was butter!





gio12 said:


> I bricked my iPhone during an update because the *I* messed up the process.


Which will it be? There is no such thing as ZERO problems. Considering what you have written here however, it seems you tend to introduce issues once you jailbreak. The action of jailbreaking MAY not cause problems, but what comes after apparently does.

Oh, and I never said that jailbreaking caused battery issues. I only said I started having them.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Sgt. Slaughter" said:


> I think its more along the lines that the provider req's it be secure and DIRECTV couldn't get their encryption method up to snuff in time and in turn just decided to release it but block jailbroken devices till they figure out a way to do it like netflix does.
> Just my personal thought, as i still can't see regular program providers having bigger issue with streaming than major film studios.


You say I made a big assumption in stating that D* was meeting its obligation to its partners, then you turn right around and make my point.

DirecTV has an obligation to take steps to protect the content. They could use encryption like Netflix and HBO or block jailbroken devices. Easy.

It's not an assumption to say that D* has an obligation to protect the content that they stream over the Internet, and it's no assumption to say that D* blocks jailbreak devices as part of that obligation.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Sgt. Slaughter" said:


> dont think the number really matters all that much. If so then your telling me that there are wayyyy more Netflix subscribers that are running CM7 ROM on their android device than there are DIRECTV subs with jailbroken devices.....
> Just saying b/c till last update CM7 users were not supported by Netflix, and they went out of their way to fix that.


Have you ever run Netflix on a Cyanogen ROM? From the way that you keep posting "CM7 users were not supported by Netflix" I'm betting that you haven't. I have. Netflix didn't just start supporting Cyanogen in the last release, they fixed an incompatibility of some sort. I ran Cyanogen and Netflix for a bit earlier this year before I bought my Thunderbolt. It worked fine.

Netflix support for Cyanogen IS NOT new, and the Netflix app runs on an awful lot of custom ROMs.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

dualsub2006 said:


> Have you ever run Netflix on a Cyanogen ROM? From the way that you keep posting "CM7 users were not supported by Netflix" I'm betting that you haven't. I have. Netflix didn't just start supporting Cyanogen in the last release, they fixed an incompatibility of some sort. I ran Cyanogen and Netflix for a bit earlier this year before I bought my Thunderbolt. It worked fine.
> 
> Netflix support for Cyanogen IS NOT new, and the Netflix app runs on an awful lot of custom ROMs.


your missing the point though. They made personal note to go out of their way and fix a bug that was solely associated with CM7 ROMs. Which is about as far form official OS carrier provider builds as you can get, and only get on rooted devices. Earlier you had to modify the build.prop to get netflix to work on cm7 roms. now thats not the case at all.
They could of easily left them hurting b/c its a ROM on rooted phone but they went the other direction.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

dualsub2006 said:


> You say I made a big assumption in stating that D* was meeting its obligation to its partners, then you turn right around and make my point.
> 
> DirecTV has an obligation to take steps to protect the content. They could use encryption like Netflix and HBO or block jailbroken devices. Easy.
> 
> It's not an assumption to say that D* has an obligation to protect the content that they stream over the Internet, and it's no assumption to say that D* blocks jailbreak devices as part of that obligation.


yeah again we both mean the same thing but stating it differently. I just dont buy the talk that they require DIRECTV to block jailbroken devices. I do buy that they req them to make the content secure but that does not have to mean they block jailbroken devices in order to meet it.

I just read you saying "they meet their obligation by blocking jailbroken devices," as in the obligations were to block jailbroken devices. but thats not what you ment really as its just one of the "options" to meet the obligations and so happens to be the one they picked.

again were on the same page here, just stating it differently.

really think in the end itll be like netflix at some point....


----------



## dualsub2006

"Sgt. Slaughter" said:


> They could of easily left them hurting b/c its a ROM on rooted phone but they went the other direction.


CM7 is THE custom ROM to have if you root and has a very sizeable user base. Netflix almost had no choice but to fix that bug.

And it isn't the first time they have fixed bugs for rooted users. When I was on a GPA ROM there was an issue with video stuttering. Netflix "fixed some issues for rooted users" then too.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Sgt. Slaughter" said:


> yeah again we both mean the same thing but stating it differently. I just dont buy the talk that they require DIRECTV to block jailbroken devices. I do buy that they req them to make the content secure but that does not have to mean they block jailbroken devices in order to meet it.


But D is required to do SOMETHING. Netflix is in business to stream. D isn't. HBO is now in the business of streaming. D isn't. Makes sense for Netflix and HBO to have their encryption in place. D? Well, they blocked jailbreakers.


----------



## Smidgerine

Stuart Sweet said:


> Smidgerine, do you put all your Blu-rays on a NAS or just the ones that you have the contractual right to reproduce?


:lol: True. They are my backup copies. 

Seriously, though, it is just easier to do this for archives and then run ps3 media server to my 2 ps3s or computers/laptops/tablets. I don't have optical drives in everything, so this does the job and I don't have to worry about my Weimaraner eating left out discs...which she does do!


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"dualsub2006" said:


> CM7 is THE custom ROM to have if you root and has a very sizeable user base. Netflix almost had no choice but to fix that bug.
> 
> And it isn't the first time they have fixed bugs for rooted users. When I was on a GPA ROM there was an issue with video stuttering. Netflix "fixed some issues for rooted users" then too.


There are more directv jailbroken users than cm7 netflix subs I bet. So if netflix had to fix to support them then you'd think directv would too...

End of discussion should be DIRECTV is hopefully in process for adapting a method like netflix uses so it doesn't have to block the jailbroken iPhone ppl. 
Hopefully by the time the android version comes out they have it figured out. Lol


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"dualsub2006" said:


> But D is required to do SOMETHING. Netflix is in business to stream. D isn't. HBO is now in the business of streaming. D isn't. Makes sense for Netflix and HBO to have their encryption in place. D? Well, they blocked jailbreakers.


They are getting into the business of streaming though. I agree that's all netflix has and they have more motive but DIRECTV isn't going to go in on streaming half effort. Over time I see them adopting other method than blocking devices.


----------



## gio12

"dualsub2006" said:


> D* did make the app incompatible with jailbroken devices from day 1. Of streaming. The scope of what the app does has changed and so have the rules that D* has to live by.
> 
> D* meets their obligation to their partners by blocking jailbreak devices. Even though the hacking community can fix it in no time, D* did their part. It takes seconds, literally seconds to make an app do a jailbreak test when it runs. The time and resources involved with one developer writing one little bitty bit of code isn't keeping anyone up at night.
> 
> The number of D* customers that will seek a solution to the blocking is a tiny, tiny fraction of users. I doubt that D* really cares about the few that will actually do it.


Sorry Charlie! The app was worked fine, until the update form streaming. From day 1 it should have been blocked.

Yes, I know the code was a 1 word thing. But if hey want much tougher security measure, it wi take time and money


----------



## gio12

"Chris Blount" said:


> First you say this:
> 
> And then you say this:
> 
> Which will it be? There is no such thing as ZERO problems. Considering what you have written here however, it seems you tend to introduce issues once you jailbreak. The action of jailbreaking MAY not cause problems, but what comes after apparently does.
> 
> Oh, and I never said that jailbreaking caused battery issues. I only said I started having them.


Read what I wrote JB has cause my zero problems. I mean issues not just a springboard crash than happens on a non JB device as well. Maybe I should clarify that. JB has caused no problems that are not experienced on a NON JB phone. IMO, SB crash is NOT a problem and I stand by zero.

Again, what did I write. A JB phone did not cause me issues. The process did twice, using a different Method where I screwed up. Not the JB processes.

Let's be clear. All a JB is a open exploit, that IT! it's apps that cause issues, not a successful jailbreak.

A springboard crashes are caused by APPS not the JB itself.

I hope my point gets across this time. Maybe j am clearer now.


----------



## TBlazer07

Chris Blount said:


> Which will it be? There is no such thing as ZERO problems. ........... The action of jailbreaking MAY not cause problems, but what comes after apparently does.
> 
> Oh, and I never said that jailbreaking caused battery issues. I only said I started having them.


As I said earlier I never had a problem with jailbreaking ... zero. Not a reboot or a random respring (at least none t hat I was aware of). Maybe it's because I only use it for 3 or 4 innocuous patches that make the system more tolerable for me.

When I got my iPad 2 off eBay a couple weeks ago I made sure it had 4.3.3 on it before purchasing it. After coming from an Android tablet there was no way I would buy one that I couldn't customize.

That being said, the DirecTV patch on Cydia to allow the app to work, works. Had I known the update will kill the app for JB I would never have done it. I would have preferred not to have to patch the app. The streaming is "neat" but I would have preferred to not lose full functionality of the DirecTV app without warning which was the primary reason I gave up the Samsung Tablet for the iPad to begin with.


----------



## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> Sorry Charlie! The app was worked fine, until the update form streaming. From day 1 it should have been blocked.
> 
> Yes, I know the code was a 1 word thing. But if hey want much tougher security measure, it wi take time and money


We are clearly to the point where it has to be said, your opinion on when JB devices should or shouldn't have been blocked was clearly not relevant to DirecTV.


----------



## markrogo

Stuart Sweet said:


> Smidgerine, do you put all your Blu-rays on a NAS or just the ones that you have the contractual right to reproduce?


I put all of mine that I might ever watch again on a NAS. The legal implications of this are not what the MPAA thinks they are.


----------



## gio12

Sounds like someone found a way to stream OUTSIDE your network.  I am going to try it tomorrow.
EDIT: I can't figure it out. I have no idea. Can't find any info.


----------



## Chris Blount

To get this thread back on track, remember, all discussion regarding the DirecTV app and jailbreaking is to stay in this thread. Please do not start new threads.

Thanks.


----------



## cypherx

Back to topic of the app...

1.3.4 - blocked simple jailbreaking by removing the flags in the configuration file

1.3.5 - supposidly blocks more advanced jailbreaking by working around the cydia patch.


Just an FYI to those with JB. Don't update if you can manage at this time.

Still waiting for a low level device driver to intercept JB detection and pass expected (non-jailbroken) results to the apps. This type of patch would cure all apps with JB detection... not just this one.

I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating streaming IF the app detects you are JB. However disabling even the remote control aspect is a d**k move, DirecTV.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"cypherx" said:


> Back to topic of the app...
> 
> 1.3.4 - blocked simple jailbreaking by removing the flags in the configuration file
> 
> 1.3.5 - supposidly blocks more advanced jailbreaking by working around the cydia patch.
> 
> Just an FYI to those with JB. Don't update if you can manage at this time.
> 
> Still waiting for a low level device driver to intercept JB detection and pass expected (non-jailbroken) results to the apps. This type of patch would cure all apps with JB detection... not just this one.
> 
> I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating streaming IF the app detects you are JB. However disabling even the remote control aspect is a d**k move, DirecTV.


I'm more shocked they went further to block it in the manner they are using. Why the hell are they not just going the netflix route and encrypt it the same way they do? 
Makes no sense why they would go this direction and take the easy way to block it.

I just can't see directv wanting to fight the rooting/JB group. Netflix saw the light and changed/adjusted and so should directv.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

It's hard to know what the motivation is... but DIRECTV is known for their straightforward, conservative approach to DRM issues. I know that it was important to them to act quickly to address this, and they did.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> It's hard to know what the motivation is... but DIRECTV is known for their straightforward, conservative approach to DRM issues. I know that it was important to them to act quickly to address this, and they did.


Yeah. I just hope its a temp thing as they work on getting a solution comperable to netflix's.

Too many people to go against and disrupt.


----------



## DogLover

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> I'm more shocked they went further to block it in the manner they are using. Why the hell are they not just going the netflix route and encrypt it the same way they do?
> Makes no sense why they would go this direction and take the easy way to block it.
> 
> I just can't see directv wanting to fight the rooting/JB group. Netflix saw the light and changed/adjusted and so should directv.


Netflix can encrypt the files beforehand. The steaming that the DIRECTV app does would require live encryption on the fly. That is likely more difficult than why Netflix has done.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"DogLover" said:


> Netflix can encrypt the files beforehand. The steaming that the DIRECTV app does would require live encryption on the fly. That is likely more difficult than why Netflix has done.


Yeah i thought that before but coulda sworn someone said someone does it on the fly and its do able.


----------



## cypherx

DogLover said:


> Netflix can encrypt the files beforehand. The steaming that the DIRECTV app does would require live encryption on the fly. That is likely more difficult than why Netflix has done.


NDS, the supplier of the conditional access technology used by DirecTV does have solutions in place for secure adaptive internet streaming.

The product is called VideoGuard Connect DRM.
http://www.nds.com/Content_and_Service_Protection/VideoGuard_Connect_DRM/

They have a whole suite of solutions to get your content "On any Device" Here is that portfolio:
http://www.nds.com/Solutions/On_Any_Device/

This would be the ultimate solution that benifits both the consumer AND DirecTV. Because the way it stands now, it's going to be an endless game of cat and mouse. I think that's too much burden that DirecTV should have to bear right now. Going forward with a proven solution from a vendor they already partner with sounds to me like the way to get this product back on track.

In the mean time, perhaps they should separate the streaming app from the remote control app. At least maintain the basic functionality we've had since 1.0.0 to program the DVR, browse the guide and change channels from a second, non-interrupting screen.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Perhaps that would work out. I wonder how much it would cost DIRECTV to license.


----------



## cypherx

Stuart Sweet said:


> Perhaps that would work out. I wonder how much it would cost DIRECTV to license.


Ooh, look what I found.

Press release "DirecTV Selects NDS VideoGuard Connect"
http://www.nds.com/Media_Center/Pre...rd_Connect_the_DRM_for_Multi-platform_Pay-TV/

Quote from our friend Romulo 
"Our subscribers expect quality content and the best viewing experience from DIRECTV. We will use VideoGuard Connect's highly secure DRM to ensure content producers and DIRECTV can support consumers' growing desire for a video experience on multiple screens. VideoGuard Connect is a valuable addition to our portfolio of solutions from NDS"


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Wow, you're good! Excellent find!


----------



## David Ortiz

cypherx said:


> Ooh, look what I found...


Not to rain on your parade; more for reference.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2845353#post2845353


----------



## pacobell21

Hi All,

New user here...joined up after I stumbled upon this thread. So as you might guess, I have a jailbroken iPad 2, and I accidentally updated the Directv app to 1.3.5, which doesen't work with the manual fix or the Cydia patch. My question is, would any of you know if there is any way i can get an older version of the Directv for iPad app IPA file (version 1.3.1 - 1.3.3) from anywhere so i can just roll back to an older version of the app? I could care less about the streaming to be honest, I just want to again be able to use the other fuctionalities that were always there. The latest version of the app on my copy of iTunes is 1.2.6 or some such, so I can't go that route, since it would just force me to upgrade anyway upon launching the app. Sigh. Any ideas? I'm really frustrated with this whole situation. Double sigh.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"David Ortiz" said:


> Not to rain on your parade; more for reference.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2845353#post2845353


Haha thought I remembered reading this before! 
Wonder why its not being used really, or if it is then why the JB block still.....
Maybe they wanna make sure they get whole app up and perfect before releasing it to the JB phones as no telling if bugs r bc of being JB or not?....total shot in the dark by me to.make sense of it now


----------



## cypherx

The app now forces you to update when you launch starting today.

If you block the connection to DirecTV's servers... the app never fully launches. It freezes on waiting for network.

If you try to con 1.3.4 into thinking it's 1.3.5, it will say "An invalid version number detected. Please uninstall and reinstall application."

If you try to mix and match key resources from 1.3.4 and 1.3.5, you get the classic IOS app crash (app launches and disappears right away).

If you try to straight up run 1.3.5, current patches available to the JB community are no longer working.

Looks like DirecTV is almost on the same level playing field as my cable operator. My local cable provider doesn't have an ipad app, and now, to me neither does DirecTV. So what do I get with DirecTV besides an HD GUI and less HD channels? Hmm... an iPad app sure would off been icing on the cake to make me renew next year. Going to have to rethink that harder next fall and see who offers what. 

Does anyone know if an Android port is coming out? I've had about enough of Apples dictatorship and wouldn't mind getting an Android tablet.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> Looks like DirecTV is almost on the same level playing field as my cable operator. My local cable provider doesn't have an ipad app, and now, to me neither does DirecTV.


I've felt your pain in the past, and you have to keep one thing in mind, jailbreak was a choice and sometimes there is fallout for doing it.



"cypherx" said:


> Does anyone know if an Android port is coming out? I've had about enough of Apples dictatorship and wouldn't mind getting an Android tablet.


I'm not sure if an Android version is coming or not, but I'd bet real money that they will block rooted devices.

An iPad like app for Android would be one of the apps that would push me to dump my iPad I'm going to wait until an ICS tablet catches ny eye. I'm done rooting.


----------



## cypherx

"dualsub2006" said:


> I've felt your pain in the past, and you have to keep one thing in mind, jailbreak was a choice and sometimes there is fallout for doing it.
> 
> I'm not sure if an Android version is coming or not, but I'd bet real money that they will block rooted devices.
> 
> An iPad like app for Android would be one of the apps that would push me to dump my iPad I'm going to wait until an ICS tablet catches ny eye. I'm done rooting.


I don't know if "rooting" an android is necessary. JB an iOS device just makes more sense because how hardcore the system is locked down.

The only thing iOS has going for it is the extensive app library, which is why I have what I have.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> I don't know if "rooting" an android is necessary. JB an iOS device just makes more sense because how hardcore the system is locked down.


Rooting is necessary if your carrier (like mine) sells you a phone pre-loaded with a bunch of constantly running crap that you can't uninstall. 
Google blocks their own video rental service of rooted devices and given what D* does on jailbroken iPads I won't be even a little surprised if they block rooted Android tablets too.

Though I hear getting around root check is simple and "foolproof".


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"cypherx" said:


> .......
> Does anyone know if an Android port is coming out? I've had about enough of Apples dictatorship and wouldn't mind getting an Android tablet.


It should be in the mix, but don't expect anything till after you see ICS out for awhile. If I had to guess I'd say maybe 2nd qtr next yr is when they'll b an iPad equivalent on android.

The thing with android and ICS there is a great way you can make 1app and publish it for small screens and tablets having it look different on both. Same exact apk for all kinds of screen sizes and the apk will determine the layout to use.

With most androids being 4in plus now is say they should bring all features to phones on our side as the real estate is there. 
Android has always been backburner hence no nomad for android still....they can't ignore the market share jumps forever but that's the price you pay for going against the crowd early on.

Now as far as rooting/JB blocking I'm going to take a stance and say they rolled it out in its current form to just make sure no kinks in it and also get it out while they work on the DRM aspect of it that will allow them to open it up to all devices JB or not. Just makes sense and there's too big of a community there to ignore, esp when the solution is there.

Now they are conservative in approach as noted before, but if it comes to it they would hear enough noise/complaining to adjust like most companies do bc its smart $.


----------



## gio12

So I guess we are screwed now, until the JB community comes up with another fix.
Screw You DIRECTV! All i want is the ability to watch a damn show on my iPad or computer at some point. Can't now with a JB iPad nor a Mac running DIRECTV2PC


----------



## gio12

cypherx said:


> The app now forces you to update when you launch starting today.
> 
> If you block the connection to DirecTV's servers... the app never fully launches. It freezes on waiting for network.
> 
> If you try to con 1.3.4 into thinking it's 1.3.5, it will say "An invalid version number detected. Please uninstall and reinstall application."
> 
> If you try to mix and match key resources from 1.3.4 and 1.3.5, you get the classic IOS app crash (app launches and disappears right away).
> 
> If you try to straight up run 1.3.5, current patches available to the JB community are no longer working.
> 
> Looks like DirecTV is almost on the same level playing field as my cable operator. My local cable provider doesn't have an ipad app, and now, to me neither does DirecTV. So what do I get with DirecTV besides an HD GUI and less HD channels? Hmm... an iPad app sure would off been icing on the cake to make me renew next year. Going to have to rethink that harder next fall and see who offers what.
> 
> Does anyone know if an Android port is coming out? I've had about enough of Apples dictatorship and wouldn't mind getting an Android tablet.


Me too. Looks like I need to leave to Uverse for sure now.


----------



## cypherx

gio12 said:


> So I guess we are screwed now, until the JB community comes up with another fix.
> Screw You DIRECTV! All i want is the ability to watch a damn show on my iPad or computer at some point. Can't now with a JB iPad nor a Mac running DIRECTV2PC


I don't know how they would release watching on the PC. You have full 100% access to your PC's file system. That's no different than a JB ipad. Heck even on a JB ipad you still have to know how and actually install ifile to access the filesystem and OpenSSH to access it via WinSCP over your wifi network. This stuff isn't for the faint of heart.

Simple stuff like going to jailbreak.me and finding tweaks like InfiniFolders, lock screen notifications and widgets, and stuff like barrel (compiz effects) is easier than trying to figure out what the heck you can do with DirecTV streaming.

I guess I'll just be armed with updated feature-sets next year when it's time to re-evaluate who deserves my hard earned cash. It was DirecTV for sure, but now that they don't have a working ipad app that puts them on the same playing field as my local cable operator. I had no question on sticking with DTV but now at least I'll be doing some research.

Heck even HBOGo works on my iPad. We all know how overly protective HBO is of their content. Heck they turn the 5C flag on copy once at their source. I think they are even one of the companies behind the big push to eliminate HD on analog outputs. Yet they don't feel the need to alienate certain iOS devices. Interesting.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> I guess I'll just be armed with updated feature-sets next year when it's time to re-evaluate who deserves my hard earned cash. It was DirecTV for sure, but now that they don't have a working ipad app that puts them on the same playing field as my local cable operator. I had no question on sticking with DTV but now at least I'll be doing some research.


Talk about going to cable or Uverse over an iPad app makes me scratch my head.

Apps that block jailbroken devices: (I researched this in September)

1. Time Warner
2. Cablevision
3. DirecTV
4. Bright house
5. Xfinity

Apps that don't offer live streaming on iPad

1. Dish Network
2. Uverse
3. Verizon FiOS

Dish stays on my non-streaming list because anything will stream live tv with a Sling or Vulkano hooked up.

If D* programming doesn't cut it for you, that's one thing. I personally, for me, I would never let a jailbroken iPad stand between me and an app if I really wanted the app. I would undo the jailbreak or find something that did work, but I wouldn't drop D* (or cable if I had that) based on jailbroken devices running remote control apps.

I wanted to use the Google Movie rental in Android Market on my rooted Thunderbolt, but Google blocks rooted devices. I had a choice, unroot to use it, side load a modified app or find an alternative. Though the modified app works, I chose to stick with Netflix. Then came HBO Go and MAX Go.

HBO and Netflix do work on jailbroken iOS devices (and rooted Android devices) because they cook their own encryption. They are both very concerned about protecting the content that they deliver and neither deals with live content. An encrypted file is a bit different than an encrypted live stream.

You gotta do what you gotta do. If D* doesn't work for you, D* doesn't work you.


----------



## cypherx

Not saying I will def. leave DirecTV because of the Jailbreak thing... I'm just saying it more so levels the playing field. To me they no longer have an iPad app or streaming. Well neither does my Cable company... so touche'. Level grounds. Its a small fraction that makes up the list of Pro's and Con's for each service. Say both providers are VERY good... anything for one to differentiate Service A from Service B whether that's an iPad app, hardware, channels, price, etc... is worth noting. 

I thought the iPad app was so cool. I always said, "I'll NEVER go to cable, this is such a nice feature". Take that away and now I'm thinking "When my contract is up, looks like I will have to do some research and see if there's any reason to stay with DirecTV".

Sure HBOGo, MaxGo and Netflix cook up their own encryption. But so can DirecTV. That's the whole point of NDS VideoGuard Connect DRM. Secure content authorization and access DRM across ANY device. DirecTV's own Romulo Pontual was quoted in an NDS press release speaking about signing a deal with NDS for this particular product. 

You list other apps that block jailbreaks. Well here's my response to that:

1. Time Warner - Defeatable (patch available in Cydia)
2. Cablevision - Defeatable (.deb file package available for download)
3. DirecTV
4. Bright house - Build on Time Warner app. Same patch works.
5. Xfinity - I have this app and it loads fine. I no longer have XFinity but I can get guide listings and get my email (they kept my email acct open).

Slingbox doesn't block jailbroken devices.

I haven't heard of UVerse or Fios apps being blocked... but I'll have to google that.

Point is, if the DRM isn't fully cooked and they are not using it for whatever reason, then fine. Eliminate the streaming from JB iPads. But don't eliminate the guide, sports pages, DVR programming and playlist viewing. That is all SIMPLE stuff.

As far as current workarounds, yes.. I'm going to try to debug the app process more when I get some time. Maybe I will find a way to fool 1.3.4 in thinking it's up to date, or maybe I will find a way to get 1.3.5 to work. Otherwise I guess waltzremote works as a fine control for now. Paired with a SlingBox, you have all the streaming one could ever ask for. But why have all of these workarounds?

I think DirecTV is taking the wrong approach here. Get with NDS, DRM the streaming OR just hide the whole streaming feature from JB ipads. Don't block the entire app.


----------



## lparsons21

A point of fact, Dish's iPad app doesn't stream live programming, but it does stream recorded events from their Vip DVRs. I often used to set a recording to start, go to bed and watch the recording in progress.

Not quite 'live' but close enough.


----------



## cypherx

lparsons21 said:


> A point of fact, Dish's iPad app doesn't stream live programming, but it does stream recorded events from their Vip DVRs. I often used to set a recording to start, go to bed and watch the recording in progress.
> 
> Not quite 'live' but close enough.


Oh thats sort of the workaround to get semi-live streaming to DirecTV2PC. Set a recording via the ipad, waltzremote or DirecTV.com... fire up DirecTV2PC and playback said recording already in progress.

I wonder if they will port DirecTV2PC to the iPad? However at this rate it looks like anything they do will be useless unless I win a second iPad and dedicate it solely to DirecTV. God knows I'm not paying for another one of these things.


----------



## lparsons21

If they ever decide to port DirectTV2PC to the iPad, they'll need much better programmers doing it! My laptop works fine with all sorts of streaming video and conversions, yet the video burps fairly often with direcTV2PC. And the fact that it won't run in a VM on a modern day iMac is pretty damning imo.

The streaming of the video from the HR to the iPad is flawless though. 

Edit: Awk!! My bad, the D* iPad software doesn't stream from the HR...

So they have good programmers available, just didn't use them with D*TV2PC!


----------



## TBlazer07

gio12 said:


> So I guess we are screwed now, until the JB community comes up with another fix.
> Screw You DIRECTV! All i want is the ability to watch a damn show on my iPad or computer at some point. Can't now with a JB iPad nor a Mac running DIRECTV2PC


 I just want to use the app for scheduling. They can keep their streaming as I can watch TV in many other ways. They should be able to simply turn off streaming for a JB device or even better keep a "non-streaming" version available as a separate app. Locking you out completely from all the other features other than streaming is dumb.


----------



## cypherx

"TBlazer07" said:


> I just want to use the app for scheduling. They can keep their streaming as I can watch TV in many other ways. They should be able to simply turn off streaming for a JB device or even better keep a "non-streaming" version available as a separate app. Locking you out completely from all the other features other than streaming is dumb.


All I can say is email DirecTV. Head over to their website and find the Contact Us link. I sent them my concerns. They won't have any idea this is a problem unless people tell them.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

They know it's a concern. And I've talked to exactly the right people who make the decisions. I suggested that they create a version of the app that can work on jail broken devices that doesn't stream. They said they would consider it. If that's what you want, tell them. 

If you want to stream live tv on jail broken devices, all I can say is you're not going to get anywhere with that, not with the current contracts.


----------



## gjlowe

Such paranoia. What do they think we can do with their video stream on a jailbroken device that can't be done on one that isn't? Besides, it only works inside the network where the receiver is! There are plenty of easier, and more useful ways to illegally obtain content than a Jailbroken iPad app!


----------



## dualsub2006

"gjlowe" said:


> Such paranoia. What do they think we can do with their video stream on a jailbroken device that can't be done on one that isn't? Besides, it only works inside the network where the receiver is! There are plenty of easier, and more useful ways to illegally obtain content than a Jailbroken iPad app!


It's possible to rip the stream on a jailbroken iPad. It's not easy, but it can be done.

It really doesn't matter how many easy ways there are to obtain content that isn't legal, the content owners and those that control distribution won't allow D* to create another way. Even if it isn't as easy as some other methods.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Stuart Sweet" said:


> And I've talked to exactly the right people who make the decisions.


Maybe you could mention HBO Go on Roku to these folks......


----------



## cypherx

I have no idea how you would rip the stream from a jail broken iPad. All I use it for are tweaks like infinifolders and widgets. Not to mention the tweaks that speed up all animations (it really makes iOS fly).

If they ever expect to bring streaming to the PC (like Netflix, HBOGo, MaxGo, Hulu, etc..) how do they plan to protect that? On a PC you have full access to your hard drive. To me that seems the only difference between jail broken or un jail broken iPad (file system access).

If they are that paranoid and NDS DRM isn't enough, then I would be fine with a version of the app that omitted streaming on the iPad. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> I have no idea how you would rip the stream from a jail broken iPad.


Well, I'm going to rephrase what I posted. I don't know how to do it either, I've only read about it. It can be done, based on articles written by others.



"cypherx" said:


> If they ever expect to bring streaming to the PC (like Netflix, HBOGo, MaxGo, Hulu, etc..) how do they plan to protect that?


You're assuming that D* intends to bring streaming to computers. I'm not up to speed on D* plans, but if they do intend to do it Netflix or HBO Go encryption would have to be in place.



"cypherx" said:


> If they are that paranoid and NDS DRM isn't enough, then I would be fine with a version of the app that omitted streaming on the iPad. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


It isn't that D* is paranoid, as Stuart said, it's contractual. I really can't see D* having one version of the app and another for the few jailbreakers that excludes streaming.

I only know one iOS developer and I keep meaning to ask him if it is possible to only block certain features of an app if JB is detected, or if it's an all or nothing thing.


----------



## TBlazer07

dualsub2006 said:


> I only know one iOS developer and I keep meaning to ask him if it is possible to only block certain features of an app if JB is detected, or if it's an all or nothing thing.


 The iPhone app doesn't alllow streaming. Just allow that app for the iPad. Simple. Little or no programming needed. Just a "switch" in iTunes.

Besides that, if they can block an App if it detects JB they certainly can block a feature or simply provide the last version of the app that did NOT include streaming. There is nothing that cannot be done if they want to do it.

I'm sure some "genius" out there will find a way around it soon enough anyway.


----------



## dualsub2006

"TBlazer07" said:


> The iPhone app doesn't alllow streaming. Just allow that app for the iPad. Simple. Little or no programming needed. Just a "switch" in iTunes.


That's great, only it doesn't have the remote feature or the visual guide and those are the parts of the app that are in demand.


----------



## dualsub2006

"TBlazer07" said:


> Besides that, if they can block an App if it detects JB they certainly can block a feature or simply provide the last version of the app that did NOT include streaming. There is nothing that cannot be done if they want to do it.


So, you're an experienced iOS developer and you're saying that it is trivial to detect jailbreak and only disable certain features?

Or are you saying that you don't have any idea if it's actually possible, but can't imagine it being that hard because the iPad is so easy?


----------



## cypherx

You can test for jailbreak and the routine will give you the result of that check that you use to follow the correct branch in your code.

You can use a simple IF statement to skirt around the branch of code that displays the interface for accessing the streaming. Contractual or not, I still remind you of HBOGo, MAXGo, and Netflix as 3 prime examples of apps that contain a lot of valuable assists.... Maybe more valuable than DirecTV, since I didn't see any premiums available for streaming. At least the steaming DirecTV provides contains unstoppable commercial breaks that pay for the content (along with your DirecTV.com login that proves you subscribe).


----------



## gio12

"gjlowe" said:


> Such paranoia. What do they think we can do with their video stream on a jailbroken device that can't be done on one that isn't? Besides, it only works inside the network where the receiver is! There are plenty of easier, and more useful ways to illegally obtain content than a Jailbroken iPad app!


Don't confuse D* with the facts. Personally, I have not seen or heard of an app to copy/steal steaming tv/video on a JB iPad/iPhone.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> You can use a simple IF statement to skirt around the branch of code that displays the interface for accessing the streaming.


Unless you've developed an app, similar to the D* app that involves streaming content excluded by an IF statement, and had that app work without issue in same or similar fashion to the D* app, I'm going to ignore you declaration that it is "simple".



"cypherx" said:


> Contractual or not, I still remind you of HBOGo, MAXGo, and Netflix


I don't need you to remind me of this. When my iPad was jailbroken I had all three. It's not relevant to the D* app. Nobody is disputing that video streaming works on jailbroken iPads. That's where the discussion ends because D* doesn't allow it.

Do you need me to remind you about the encryption that those three apps employ? I didn't think you did, I just wanted to check. And again, it's not relevant that HBO Go, MAX Go and Netflix have encryption. D* doesn't at this point and that's all that really matters.

Can they add encryption? Yes. Will they add encryption? I'd say they will. Will they allow jailbroken iPads once they do? Maybe. Maybe not.

Like you yourself said, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You want a jailbroken iPad, and you have it.


----------



## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> Don't confuse D* with the facts. Personally, I have not seen or heard of an app to copy/steal steaming tv/video on a JB iPad/iPhone.


I never said that there was AN app that would steal the stream. I said there was A METHOD. Very Big difference.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> You can use a simple IF statement to skirt around the branch of code that displays the interface for accessing the streaming.


I was curious, so I just did some reading about the method that Apple uses to block jailbroken devices from accessing purchased books from the iBooks book store.

For me, it removes all doubt. You aren't speaking from experience and have no idea what you are talking about.

It's not a simple if/then arguement, results are not persistent and the method is easily bypassed.

I'll go out on a limb and predict that D* won't implement streaming exclusions based on jailbreak status detection under the current circumstances.


----------



## cypherx

Streaming should be bundled into the Nomad app. That's what the app is for, streaming. Also if you don't have nomad, but use it just to stream live TV, maybe it will "up-sell" nomad to people who never heard of it.

There's just no reason to block a DVR programming, remote control, guide viewing, sports score checking app from JB ipads.

By the way the way DirecTv is checking for JB has been determined. A patch is sure to be released soon.

Work is also being done on a package to thwart Jailbreak protection on a bigger scale, rather than requiring patching individual apps. 

DirecTV can keep wasting their time. It will be broken time and time again. I feel absolutely no remorse or one ounce of guilt for running the app on a Jailbroken iPad. I am not stealing anything.

Though we fundamentally disagree on things, this back and forth has been fun. Happy Thanksgiving dualsub.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> Streaming should be bundled into the Nomad app. That's what the app is for, streaming. Also if you don't have nomad, but use it just to stream live TV, maybe it will "up-sell" nomad to people who never heard of it.


The Nomad app doesn't stream, it plays transcoded files, but I get your point.

Now that D* has provided live streaming in the iPad app I'd have a real problem if the solution to this involved me having to download and use another app.



"cypherx" said:


> There's just no reason to block a DVR programming, remote control, guide viewing, sports score checking app from JB ipads.


And they didn't block JB iPads when the app did just those things.



"cypherx" said:


> Though we fundamentally disagree on things, this back and forth has been fun. Happy Thanksgiving dualsub.


And to you and yours, Happy Thanksgiving.


----------



## cypherx

I guess I'm just thinking instead of JB detection sending you to a "we do not support JB devices" message, it could set a flag in which first launch wouldn't even bring up this question regarding do you want to add streaming video. That way at least the original functions would work.

Then if you tried to add streaming yourself, say "were sorry, due to restrictions set in place by content owners streaming is not available on a jail broken device."

Basically just moving the message back a bit to block out the feature.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> I guess I'm just thinking instead of JB detection sending you to a "we do not support JB devices" message, it could set a flag in which first launch wouldn't even bring up this question regarding do you want to add streaming video. That way at least the original functions would work.


I'm stating this only from what I read yesterday: it doesn't work like that. At least, if it does, Apple doesn't use this method.

All three articles that I read left me with the impression that iBooks has to run JB detection every single time you open a purchased book.

I'm only guessing, but a JB user with little hacking experience would easily be able to remove that flag if your idea were possible and used.


----------



## cypherx

"dualsub2006" said:


> I'm stating this only from what I read yesterday: it doesn't work like that. At least, if it does, Apple doesn't use this method.
> 
> All three articles that I read left me with the impression that iBooks has to run JB detection every single time you open a purchased book.
> 
> I'm only guessing, but a JB user with little hacking experience would easily be able to remove that flag if your idea were possible and used.


I think iBooks drops an unsigned binary and if it can execute, bam... Jail broken (stock f/w won't run unsigned binaries). Tricky, but effective.

Late binding objective C libraries can do just about anything to an app already resident in memory. How do you think I got that screenshot ;-)


----------



## Gotchaa

As a long time customer of D* I am really unhappy to find that I no longer can use the app. The only solution is to release a remote only app IMHO, prior to the streaming introduction this was all most of us cared for. I have a sling box to stream, and it is not restricted. Please release a non streaming version that does not care what you do on your device. This just sucks "."


----------



## gio12

dualsub2006 said:


> I never said that there was AN app that would steal the stream. I said there was A METHOD. Very Big difference.


never even hear of a method and I am SURE 99.9% of JB users have not either. I can set my ipHone/iPad on a tripod and recored any of directv's content. Then post on youtube, etc. if done right, it looks great. So, again what's the point with the JB thing, besides being a ****** and upsetting customers?
Again, do kill the app for one small feature. Anyways, a fix is under way and basically a permanent one form what I hear. All this crap, makes we want to steal the streaming shows now and paste them all over to send a point.


----------



## knives of ice

Finally a fix

Xcon :sure:


----------



## dualsub2006

Cypherx, is that you getting your chops busted over at MMi? That individual is really busting balls on someone for having access to something that they didn't. 

I love reading people b**ch that they aren't getting someone else's hard work fast enough. 

The guy that did that thing isn't even a D* subscriber? I hope it does work for more than just this app.


----------



## TBlazer07

knives of ice said:


> Finally a fix
> 
> Xcon :sure:


 And it also fixes the latest update after you reinstall it.


----------



## gio12

TBlazer07 said:


> And it also fixes the latest update after you reinstall it.


where? Cydia? name?


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Let me remind you of the rules...

You may:

Discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking or rooting.

You may not:

Discuss how to jailbreak or root
Discuss how to hack apps to work with jailbroken or rooted hardware
Attack others who choose to exercise their legal right to modify purchased hardware
In any way discuss any violation of terms&conditions, customer agreements, or in any other way break forum rules.

If you want to talk about xcon, you should probably go to private message.


----------



## cypherx

Yeah guys, DirecTV employees read DBSTalk more than any other site. They'll just patch it faster!

I've known about the fix for 1.3.5 (and now 1.3.6) for awhile now. I didn't want to say anything on here. That kind of info is better suited on an iphone/ipad specialized forum. 

Anyway, back to topic...
Because with each version they change Jailbreak detection, but it gets broken again... I think they should just devote their time, money and energy into DRM'ing the streaming functions so that it's a moot point if the device is JB. A DRM stream (ala Netflix, HBOGo, MaxGo) is more secure than releasing a new version of the app. DirecTV just inconveniences everyone because they force the download on people for no real feature improvements. Then it gets 'fixed' by the community shortly after anyway.

If anyone is upset with DirecTV, I would suggest contacting them Directly and expressing your concern that Jailbreaking is legal and the app will not work on your device. Then use your noggin and google how to get around it.


----------



## gio12

cypherx said:


> Yeah guys, DirecTV employees read DBSTalk more than any other site. They'll just patch it faster!
> 
> I've known about the fix for 1.3.5 (and now 1.3.6) for awhile now. I didn't want to say anything on here. That kind of info is better suited on an iphone/ipad specialized forum.
> 
> Anyway, back to topic...
> Because with each version they change Jailbreak detection, but it gets broken again... I think they should just devote their time, money and energy into DRM'ing the streaming functions so that it's a moot point if the device is JB. A DRM stream (ala Netflix, HBOGo, MaxGo) is more secure than releasing a new version of the app. DirecTV just inconveniences everyone because they force the download on people for no real feature improvements. Then it gets 'fixed' by the community shortly after anyway.
> 
> If anyone is upset with DirecTV, I would suggest contacting them Directly and expressing your concern that Jailbreaking is legal and the app will not work on your device. Then use your noggin and google how to get around it.


I did send a very nice and well thought out email.

its nice to have my iPad app back. Now, if it would only stream LIVE tv like the new Cox app. :soapbox::icon_dumm


----------



## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> I did send a very nice and well thought out email.
> 
> its nice to have my iPad app back. Now, if it would only stream LIVE tv like the new Cox app. :soapbox::icon_dumm


The 38 channels of live streaming in the D* iPad app is somehow worse than the 35 channels of live streaming in the Cox app?


----------



## cypherx

"gio12" said:


> I did send a very nice and well thought out email.
> 
> its nice to have my iPad app back. Now, if it would only stream LIVE tv like the new Cox app. :soapbox::icon_dumm


I thought the DirecTV app did stream live tv...

Cox app is fixed too with the same patch.


----------



## TBlazer07

cypherx said:


> I thought the DirecTV app did stream live tv...
> 
> Cox app is fixed too with the same patch.


 This thread is starting to remind me of Abbot and Costello's "who's on first" routine. :lol:


----------



## Chris Blount

cypherx said:


> I've known about the fix for 1.3.5 (and now 1.3.6) for awhile now. I didn't want to say anything on here. That kind of info is better suited on an iphone/ipad specialized forum.


Don't be surprised if the developers are reading other forums.

Remember, in order for the fixes to be released, they must be in public view somewhere so selectively posting them on certain site really won't make any difference. They will eventually be found by DirecTV.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Chris Blount" said:


> Don't be surprised if the developers are reading other forums.


And don't be shocked ifcthe D* devs aren't just using Google to find what they need. This fix was the second result in Google when I went looking for it.

I'm as sure that D* has someone on their iOS team watching sites like MMi as I am that they have Android people watching XDA.

Rooting and D* aren't at odds yet on the Android side yet, but it helps to know if your subscribers with rooted devices are having issues, even if you aren't actively trying to block them.


----------



## gio12

dualsub2006 said:


> The 38 channels of live streaming in the D* iPad app is somehow worse than the 35 channels of live streaming in the Cox app?


I heard it was all channels. Oh my :uglyhamme

I do wish the DIRECTV app would stream any channel you get, plus recored content.


----------



## TBlazer07

Chris Blount said:


> Don't be surprised if the developers are reading other forums.
> 
> Remember, in order for the fixes to be released, they must be in public view somewhere so selectively posting them on certain site really won't make any difference. They will eventually be found by DirecTV.


Plus I'm sure there is someone at Directv who has a jailbroken iPad and knows how to search Cydia. It's not a national secret. It will always be a cat 'n' mouse game but I don't think they are gaining anything by doing that.

Simply make the app recognize JB and disallow only streaming and MOST people will be happy. To cut off jb devices completely is silly and only serves to incite.


----------



## Chris Blount

TBlazer07 said:


> Plus I'm sure there is someone at Directv who has a jailbroken iPad and knows how to search Cydia. It's not a national secret. It will always be a cat 'n' mouse game but I don't think they are gaining anything by doing that.
> 
> Simply make the app recognize JB and disallow only streaming and MOST people will be happy. To cut off jb devices completely is silly and only serves to incite.


Simple enough but you and I both know that wouldn't hold for very long either. There would be another hack generated to allow streaming if the app is allowed to function on jailbroken devices.

Put it this way. You have a secured room in your house with your most prized posessions complete with alarm system. Would you still leave the front door to your house unlocked? Probably not. That is what DirecTV is doing. It's better for them and all parties involved that the entire house is locked up tight.

Edit - By the way, I agree about the cat and mouse game. I guess that's going to happen especially in cases like this. It's also kind of hard not to take sides. While I somewhat agree with the jailbreakers, I also see DirecTV's side of the coin as well.


----------



## cypherx

Well then if they don't DRM their stream like Netflix, then DirecTV be prepared for a wild ride.

If they separated streaming from the app, at least people wouldn't be as angry if they can still use it as a remote control, search, guide viewer, sports score tracker app. There's plenty of other apps and distractions for me to use when I'm on the John. It doesn't have to be live TV. Give me the remote control app and that's good enough for me.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Do you have evidence that they don't DRM on the stream? Because I would be pretty surprised if there were no DRM.


----------



## TBlazer07

Chris Blount said:


> Simple enough but you and I both know that wouldn't hold for very long either. There would be another hack generated to allow streaming if the app is allowed to function on jailbroken devices.
> 
> Put it this way. You have a secured room in your house with your most prized posessions complete with alarm system. Would you still leave the front door to your house unlocked? Probably not. That is what DirecTV is doing. It's better for them and all parties involved that the entire house is locked up tight.
> 
> Edit - By the way, I agree about the cat and mouse game. I guess that's going to happen especially in cases like this. It's also kind of hard not to take sides. While I somewhat agree with the jailbreakers, I also see DirecTV's side of the coin as well.


The thing is, Jailbreaking is at a very low point now with people upgrading to 5.x. Frankly I see it pretty much dwindling overall. I think if they spent as much time as they do defeating the JB people on creating an alternative method of "no-stream only if JB" it would be to their advantage. There will ALWAYS be those who want to beat it just because it is there. is it worth all the effort because they (DirecTV) will never win but only create a war. The only reason I JB is because i need to use my Wife's 3GS on T-Mobile and don't want to spend $700 on an unlocked iPhone 4s or $500 on a 4 or $30/mo on data. Don't really care much about the rest. There are a couple convenience apps (profile scheduling and no lock screen) I use for her but that's it. I also use those on our JB iPad 2.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> If they separated streaming from the app, at least people wouldn't be as angry if they can still use it as a remote control, search, guide viewer, sports score tracker app. There's plenty of other apps and distractions for me to use when I'm on the John. It doesn't have to be live TV. Give me the remote control app and that's good enough for me.


Well, I'd find it highly unlikely that D* would implement allowing the app to run on jailbroken devices minus streaming because apparently that's so easy to "fix" that I can do it.

So, next up would be D* separating streaming from the app, which would net them many, many more complaints than blocking jailbreak does. I don't want them to block you, but I also don't want to have two apps on my iPad so that you can have the remote portion. Live streaming in app works for me. aside from that, their costs go up to provide an app for streaming.

That leaves the option where D* maintains a separate app for jailbreak users that doesn't have streaming included. Might happen, but why would D* want the added hassle and expense with maintaining two apps? Plus, there would be a lot of confusion with people downloading the wrong app then exercising their Jobs given right to 1 star the app.

D* pretty clearly wants a single app and they don't want their app run on jailbroken devices.


----------



## dualsub2006

"TBlazer07" said:


> is it worth all the effort because they (DirecTV) will never win but only create a war.


Are you serious? Losing battle? War?

Please.


----------



## TBlazer07

dualsub2006 said:


> Are you serious? Losing battle? War?
> 
> Please.


Obviously a bit of hyperbole but as for being serious? You don't think that for every time they "patch" it so it doesn't work for JB there isn't someone who will "fix" it so it does? Just like jailbreaking, or patching a Wii or Xbox or PS3 to play backups or trying to stop illegals from crossing the border. it might take longer the next time but there is always someone out there who will do it. It's a losing battle. A waste of effort. They should just put the effort on making the app work for everyone be it with or without streaming. It's only software so there is always someone out there smart enough to patch it even if it's "just for the principle." You said it yourself .... even you can do it.


----------



## gio12

TBlazer07 said:


> The thing is, Jailbreaking is at a very low point now with people upgrading to 5.x. Frankly I see it pretty much dwindling overall.
> .


Not with anyone I know. I know many avg folks downgrading to 4.x to get a JB. WAAAY to many features that Apps and tweaks that i won't give up.

Cydia is betting bigger everyday, as is the JB movement. Playing the cat and mouse game with developers is fruitless, waste of time and resources by DIRECTV and costly. Just shut out JB one time. This will keep MOST people out and not seek a patch. Then put those resources to better use.


----------



## TBlazer07

gio12 said:


> Not with anyone I know. I know many avg folks downgrading to 4.x to get a JB. WAAAY to many features that Apps and tweaks that i won't give up.


 How many "avg folks" is "many?" Everything I have read is you can't downgrade (yet) from 5.x so not sure how those "avg folks" are doing it. They must not be very "average."


----------



## cypherx

Stuart Sweet said:


> Do you have evidence that they don't DRM on the stream? Because I would be pretty surprised if there were no DRM.


The fact that they don't allow the app to run on non jb devices.

If they DRM'd like Netflix, HBOGo, MaxGo, it wouldn't be a problem. Those apps run on JB devices because they are confident that their DRM stream is secured. Those apps also offer much higher valued content (movies for one). Were not talking about ripping House Hunters people....


----------



## cypherx

dualsub2006 said:


> So, next up would be D* separating streaming from the app, which would net them many, many more complaints than blocking jailbreak does. I don't want them to block you, but I also don't want to have two apps on my iPad so that you can have the remote portion. Live streaming in app works for me. aside from that, their costs go up to provide an app for streaming.
> 
> That leaves the option where D* maintains a separate app for jailbreak users that doesn't have streaming included. Might happen, but why would D* want the added hassle and expense with maintaining two apps? Plus, there would be a lot of confusion with people downloading the wrong app then exercising their Jobs given right to 1 star the app.
> 
> D* pretty clearly wants a single app and they don't want their app run on jailbroken devices.


They could just do it within the one app. Instead of the program halting and saying "We are not supported on Jailbroken devices", it could just say "Streaming content is not supported on Jailbroken devices. Click OK for remote control only". Then when you hit ok it takes you to the app minus the streaming column. If you go to add columns to your view, streaming just isn't an option.

The very first time you launch the program it asks you about streaming... for all we know you could say no thanks to that. Sure you can add streaming in later... but a JB device would just not show the streaming.

Or they could just advertise "Want streaming? Get HBOGo or MaxGo with your HBO Subscription" (and whatever other streaming apps they get access to with your DirecTV.com login).

Why, *because those programs work.* Who knows... maybe they protect their stream differently. Maybe they don't care. Maybe it's just a matter of time. Again, who knows.

The reality of it is, I cannot stand Apples closed ecosystem. The only reason I got an iPad and not an Android tablet is the app marketplace is much bigger. Android is closing the gap and more and more I start thinking about converting from an iphone and ipad to android devices. ESPECIALLY with Ice Cream Sandwich. I JB to customize my device how I like it. Not to steal / rip video streams. I don't have to rip video streams anyway. There's a million and one other (easier) sources to find that stuff on line. Let someone else do the dirty work.


----------



## dualsub2006

cypherx said:


> They could just do it within the one app. Instead of the program halting and saying "We are not supported on Jailbroken devices", it could just say "Streaming content is not supported on Jailbroken devices. Click OK for remote control only".


Easiest method to defeat. So simple, I could do it and I don't have any idea how to do these types of things.



cypherx said:


> The reality of it is, I cannot stand Apples closed ecosystem. The only reason I got an iPad and not an Android tablet is the app marketplace is much bigger.


I have an Android phone and an iPad that I bought on release day. I got the first one that Apple sold at the Cincinnati Apple Store. Why? Because I wanted a tablet and it was the only thing available.

I hate it as well. I mean, I love it, but I hate the way that Apple controls everything about it. I hate how they claim it to be so secure, yet HBO won't allow AirPlay streaming of HBO Go on a non-JB device because the encryption is so weak and the stream can be ripped.

An ICS tablet will come along in the new year that makes me tingle and I'll finally dump my iPad for an Android tablet.



cypherx said:


> I JB to customize my device how I like it. Not to steal / rip video streams.


And I, for one, have never said that your intent was to use your JB iPad to stream rip.

As someone who has lived in the rooted/ROMed Android world for over 2 years I'm just pointing out that rooting/jailbreaking is a choice that people make. From time to time your choice makes you lose access to something that you really want to have.

D* has their own reasons for blocking JB devices, but at least Apple doesn't block content from iTunes from being used. If you root your Android device, you can't access the Android Market movie rentals. I don't need access to their movie rentals, I'm just saying.


----------



## cypherx

"dualsub2006" said:


> Easiest method to defeat. So simple, I could do it and I don't have any idea how to do these types of things.
> 
> I have an Android phone and an iPad that I bought on release day. I got the first one that Apple sold at the Cincinnati Apple Store. Why? Because I wanted a tablet and it was the only thing available.
> 
> I hate it as well. I mean, I love it, but I hate the way that Apple controls everything about it. I hate how they claim it to be so secure, yet HBO won't allow AirPlay streaming of HBO Go on a non-JB device because the encryption is so weak and the stream can be ripped.
> 
> An ICS tablet will come along in the new year that makes me tingle and I'll finally dump my iPad for an Android tablet.
> 
> And I, for one, have never said that your intent was to use your JB iPad to stream rip.
> 
> As someone who has lived in the rooted/ROMed Android world for over 2 years I'm just pointing out that rooting/jailbreaking is a choice that people make. From time to time your choice makes you lose access to something that you really want to have.
> 
> D* has their own reasons for blocking JB devices, but at least Apple doesn't block content from iTunes from being used. If you root your Android device, you can't access the Android Market movie rentals. I don't need access to their movie rentals, I'm just saying.


Well your right, JB or rooting is a choice one makes. As long as I own an apple device, I feel I need to JB to get it the way I like (also out of spite for apples closed ecosystem). As long as there is a patch for DirecTV app, I'll use that too (again my choice). If there isn't, I'll help test, collect logs, trace and memory dumps to help in fixing it again.

But I'm VERY interested in a new ICS android tablet. If the hardware is good I might sell my ipad2 and use the proceeds towards a more open system. Only thing there is no DirecTV app. I guess we'll have to see how the ipad3 hardware looks. If they do a real high res screen like rumored; well that's important to me and it will be taken into consideration.


----------



## Chris Blount

I'm not quite understanding why you guys purchased an iPad in the first place knowing that it was a closed echosystem. It seems your time would be much better spent enjoying another more open tablet rather than trying to spite Apple.

Just sayin.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Chris Blount" said:


> I'm not quite understanding why you guys purchased an iPad in the first place knowing that it was a closed echosystem. It seems your time would be much better spent enjoying another more open tablet rather than trying to spite Apple.
> 
> Just sayin.


Chris,

I stood in line to buy my iPad on day 1, which I think was 5/4/2010. I wanted a tablet, any tablet and the iPad was available. I knew going in that the iPad wasn't the ideal choice for me, but it was what was available.

I have my own personal rule about how long I keep a device before I will allow myself to buy an upgrade and I'm just not there yet. After the new year, I'll be ready, and since HP tossed webOS and the Touchpad over the side, I'll be picking an ICS based Android tablet.


----------



## Chris Blount

Wow, this USA Today writer is not thrilled about the Kindle Fire:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2011-12-12/mark-smith-kindle-fire-complaints/51839620/1


----------



## cypherx

For me it was because of a more established app market at the time. Plus I already had an iPhone 3G back before android was "mature" as it is today. So I stuck with a similar platform for the commonalty and apps. I knew it could be jailbroken anyway, so that just bridged the gap. I waited for the ipad2 because I never buy the first Gen product (be it a phone, car, TV, etc)

Now that android has REALLY matured, I'd love a new tablet with ICS. Provided that the hardware is also an enticing upgrade (screen resolution, memory, CPU).

Hopefully DirecTV releases an android port.


----------



## dualsub2006

"Chris Blount" said:


> Wow, this USA Today writer is not thrilled about the Kindle Fire:
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2011-12-12/mark-smith-kindle-fire-complaints/51839620/1


The Kindle Fire is a joke.

If the hackerz can make ICS run on it in an acceptable fashion, I'll buy one and mount it in my truck. 7" would be perfect for that.


----------



## TBlazer07

Chris Blount said:


> I'm not quite understanding why you guys purchased an iPad in the first place knowing that it was a closed echosystem. It seems your time would be much better spent enjoying another more open tablet rather than trying to spite Apple.
> 
> Just sayin.


I had an Asus Transformer for 2 weeks, sold it. Built like crap Then I got the Galaxy 10.1. Nice device, battery life sucked, lots of crashes. Sold it 6 weeks later. Then I got the iPad 2 (but made sure it had the older software so I could JB it). I ended up with the iPad 2, mostly for my wife, because it is just so much more "polished" than the Android tablets and there truly is an app for everything and the battery literally lasts for weeks (albeit with low use but the Android tablets barely lasted for days)

I have only had Android phones for myself but got the iPad 2 and the old 3GS for my wife so she could use it on T-Mo prepaid. But say what you want, hate Apple or not, the iPad makes the Android tablets look like Windows 98 for the "average" non-geek user. Maybe in another 6 months things will change and I will switch again. Apple (closed system not-withstanding) just knows (or knew) how to do it right.

Thing is, I'm half-way through the Steve Jobs bio (on the iPad) and it sure seems like Apple, after the next couple years of SJ leftovers are gone, will be back to where it was in 1985. Without SJ's crazy mind it won't survive. You can hate the guy but you have to give credit where credit is due. The man was truly one-of-a-kind and no one can possibly fill his shoes. That's really too bad for Apple.


----------



## cypherx

I got this message today regarding streaming. But anyway this is what I'm talking about, if you are Jailbroken, let the app load (it's very useful for searching with a QWERTY keyboard and setting recordings). Then when you try to run streaming you will get a message saying something like "Were sorry, due to contracts with our content providers we can not offer streaming content on jail broken devices".

Then it also takes longer to crack, because now after you try something, you have to go all the way into the app and attempt streaming. As it stands now, when you try a new exploit, you know right away if it didn't work and can kill the app and keep trying. Plus it moves the blame to the content providers, so DirecTV doesn't look like the bad guy (as long as the message is worded rightly so). Plus there would be less devotion to cracking the app because at least it loaded and worked as a remote.


----------



## darman

cypherx said:


> they will bake it right into the application binary turned on just like the Nomad app. There's no patch for Nomad yet, likely because not enough people have it.


As noted, not many people have the Nomad app, so there is not much discussion on the topic. I infer from the quoted that with a j/b iPhone4 (4.3.5) I will NOT be able to use the Nomad?

I am getting ready to pull the trigger, but won't if it will not work properly.

Thanks

(I asked in the Nomad app thread and was directed here.)


----------



## cypherx

"darman" said:


> As noted, not many people have the Nomad app, so there is not much discussion on the topic. I infer from the quoted that with a j/b iPhone4 (4.3.5) I will NOT be able to use the Nomad?
> 
> I am getting ready to pull the trigger, but won't if it will not work properly.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> (I asked in the Nomad app thread and was directed here.)


A fix is in the works for Nomad. The developer said it was REALLY tricky, but he figured it out. Should be released soon.

However history shows at a moments notice DirecTV can force an update (basically says you must update when you launch the app). Historically every update "patched" the anti-jailbreak detection add on, so your at the mercy of the developer. If I were you I'd get a sling box if your interested in place shifting. It works on multiple devices now and it doesn't care if your Jailbroken or not.


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> Then it also takes longer to crack, because now after you try something, you have to go all the way into the app and attempt streaming. As it stands now, when you try a new exploit, you know right away if it didn't work and can kill the app and keep trying.


So now D* should implement a streaming only block (which is far, far easier to circumvent than the current method) to make the hackerz have to work harder than they do now? This whole argument just jumped to comedy status.



"cypherx" said:


> Plus it moves the blame to the content providers, so DirecTV doesn't look like the bad guy


D* is no more the bad guy for blocking your jailbroken iPad than Google is for blocking my rooted Android phone from using their movie rental store. They are taking the steps that they deem necessary to protect the product that they sell.

Yes, there are other ways to get "free" access to content, and every one of them is easier than ripping an iPad stream. Doesn't matter. D*, for whatever reason, sees a threat to their product on jailbroken devices. Your right to jailbreak your iPad in no way supersedes D*'s right to protect their product. And they're not (to me) bad guys for dong it.


----------



## cypherx

Prove that a streaming block would be easier to circumvent. You keep coming back to this point but without any fundamental evidence as to why? If you block the app at the beginning, you know your crack did not work and you can continue to tweak your hack immediately. It's actually faster. Plus once your in, your in.

Blocking streaming is more difficult, because when you go to streaming you are in a branch of logic within an already executed program. Its a little harder to catch the break point, unlike a "first launch". Not impossible (heck nothing's impossible), just a little more tricky. A first launch process is a known good time to start a memory trace. At least easier in my opinion.

Wouldn't you want the hackers to work harder? It slows them down.


----------



## TBlazer07

dualsub2006 said:


> D* is no more the bad guy for blocking your jailbroken iPad than Google is for blocking my rooted Android phone from using their movie rental store.


 Funny you mention that. I just rented a TV show (Grimm) on my rooted T-Mo GSII without problem for my Grandson when I was there on Sunday. First time I ever rented anything on a phone.

Edit: Just checked, it was the Samsung app, not Google. Maybe that's why?


----------



## dualsub2006

"TBlazer07" said:


> Funny you mention that. I just rented a TV show (Grimm) on my rooted T-Mo GSII without problem for my Grandson when I was there on Sunday. First time I ever rented anything on a phone.
> 
> Edit: Just checked, it was the Samsung app, not Google. Maybe that's why?


Yeah, that would be why. I knew that they blocked the app on rooted devices do I didn't even think about it. I ended up sitting in a waiting room yesterday for over 8 hours so I got my new, non-rooted Acer A100 7" on the WiFi and rented a movie.

It was great. Not unroot my phone great, but HBO Go not being available on Honeycomb made it a pretty solid backup plan.


----------



## gio12

so what the latest? I am upgrading my iPad to 5.01 and wont JB if the app won't work.


----------



## cypherx

"gio12" said:


> so what the latest? I am upgrading my iPad to 5.01 and wont JB if the app won't work.


1.3.7 works with the appropriate patch (as does Nomad).


----------



## TBlazer07

gio12 said:


> so what the latest? I am upgrading my iPad to 5.01 and wont JB if the app won't work.


 I thought you couldn't JB 5.01 even if you wanted to. I haven't checked recently, is something new out?


----------



## cypherx

"TBlazer07" said:


> I thought you couldn't JB 5.01 even if you wanted to. I haven't checked recently, is something new out?


The latest Redsn0w works on the iPad 1 / iPhone 4 / 3GS


----------



## gio12

cypherx said:


> The latest Redsn0w works on the iPad 1 / iPhone 4 / 3GS


Pwnage Tool as well.


----------



## dpeters11

"cypherx" said:


> 1.3.7 works with the appropriate patch (as does Nomad).


How about 1.3.9?


----------



## cypherx

"dpeters11" said:


> How about 1.3.9?


Prolly not. I dunno, I don't update unless forced. I was just in 1.3.7 and everything works great. What irks me is they keep releasing these "updates" that add NO new features but the only reason is to continue with this never ending cat and mouse game until the day someone burns GAMEOVER into rom. Gosh this sounds so familiar!


----------



## Stuart Sweet

A reminder....

You may:

Discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking or rooting.

You may not:

Discuss how to jailbreak or root
Discuss how to hack apps to work with jailbroken or rooted hardware
Attack others who choose to exercise their legal right to modify purchased hardware
In any way discuss any violation of terms&conditions, customer agreements, or in any other way break forum rules.


----------



## gio12

cypherx said:


> Prolly not. I dunno, I don't update unless forced. I was just in 1.3.7 and everything works great. What irks me is they keep releasing these "updates" that add NO new features but the only reason is to continue with this never ending cat and mouse game until the day someone burns GAMEOVER into rom. Gosh this sounds so familiar!


Its getting to be a joke now with this app. I hope the eve on the crack does just that, GAME OVER!


----------



## cypherx

Judging from the frequency of the app updates... Looks like when the JB fix is released, DirecTV fixes it within 24 hours. You have to remember when you submit an app to the app store, it can take 1-2 weeks to go through apples approval process before it is available for download.

They sure are keeping Apple busy. Luckily for DirecTV there are no limits or costs for each app approval. Its a one set developer fee, and with that you could submit 1 app a year or 100 apps a year... Doesn't matter.

I think directv should just bake in some highly anticipated features THEN release an update. All these point releases make it hard for people to keep up (apple, directv, non JB users, JB users).

A highly anticipated feature would be full DVR management, accessing the to do list and reorganizing series priorities. Perhaps backing up series recording settings to a file to be reloaded to a new DVR, or to back up "summer shows" vs "fall shows". That be a nice way to semi-overcome the 50 Season pass limit.

Stinks that DirecTV does everything so well except the way they handle and manage this iPad app.


----------



## Chris Blount

cypherx said:


> Stinks that DirecTV does everything so well except the way they handle and manage this iPad app.


I don't know why all the complaints. It just seems like the hackers are bringing it upon themselves. DirecTV wouldn't even be doing this if the hackers weren't so busy.


----------



## Combat Medic

Chris Blount said:


> I don't know why all the complaints. It just seems like the hackers are bringing it upon themselves. DirecTV wouldn't even be doing this if the hackers weren't so busy.


Hackers wouldn't be so busy if DirecTV weren't bringing it on themselves.


----------



## cypherx

"Chris Blount" said:


> I don't know why all the complaints. It just seems like the hackers are bringing it upon themselves. DirecTV wouldn't even be doing this if the hackers weren't so busy.


There's no hacking going on. Nothing more than just getting the app to "run" on a legally jail broken iPad. No one said anything about getting HBO for free.

We authenticate via our DirecTv.com username and password. No one is circumventing that.


----------



## gio12

cypherx said:


> There's no hacking going on. Nothing more than just getting the app to "run" on a legally jail broken iPad. No one said anything about getting HBO for free.
> 
> We authenticate via our DirecTv.com username and password. No one is circumventing that.


Some people just don't get it.


----------



## Chris Blount

cypherx said:


> There's no hacking going on.


 Of course there is:

hack - To use one's skill in computer programming to gain illegal or unauthorized access.

DirecTV has not authorized the access therefore there is hacking going on. I never said anyone was looking for something for free. All I'm saying is that the app is being used beyond its authorized capabilities thus is being hacked.


----------



## cypherx

I beg to differ. It's a remote control on a tablet with a guide. Not everyone can afford expensive Crestron systems that can do the same thing.

That's like DirecTv saying "we won't issue a remote control because you changed a setting in your TV's service menu which is unsupported".

Nothing for free is correct. That is locked behind a username and password. That same code gets me access to HBOGo and MaxGo on the very same iPad DirecTv is so (unsuccessfully wasting their time) trying to stop.

I think we can respectfully agree to disagree here. I know how I feel about it, as do you.


----------



## TBlazer07

dpeters11 said:


> How about 1.3.9?


 Nope .... dead again.

Someone on MacRumors said they "unjailbroke" their iPad and it still doesn't work and someone (who _INSINUATES_ they are involved with the DirecTV app) replied that their iPad was blacklisted by UDID by DirecTV. http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=14105439&postcount=87


----------



## Chris Blount

cypherx said:


> I think we can respectfully agree to disagree here. I know how I feel about it, as do you.


I think what disturbes me the most is that you refuse to call it hacking. Is this a denial thing or something? I have no problem saying that I hack my cable modem so I can get into the setttings and change it to bridge mode (which the cable company doesn't like me doing).

You are right though. We have to agree to disagree. I find it sad though that the word "hack" seems to have different levels of meaning when the actual meaning is obviously clear.


----------



## cypherx

TBlazer07 said:


> Nope .... dead again.
> 
> Someone on MacRumors said they "unjailbroke" their iPad and it still doesn't work and someone (who _INSINUATES_ they are involved with the DirecTV app) replied that their iPad was blacklisted by UDID by DirecTV. http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=14105439&postcount=87


Piece of cake. You can generate a random UDID per app with a program. First hit on google if you search right. PM me if you ever need this.


----------



## TBlazer07

cypherx said:


> The latest Redsn0w works on the iPad 1 / iPhone 4 / 3GS


 I have an iPad2 GSM ..... oh well.


----------



## gio12

TBlazer07 said:


> Nope .... dead again.
> 
> Someone on MacRumors said they "unjailbroke" their iPad and it still doesn't work and someone (who _INSINUATES_ they are involved with the DirecTV app) replied that their iPad was blacklisted by UDID by DirecTV. http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=14105439&postcount=87


Now this is CRAP on DIRECTV part. Some now runs stock software and DIRECTV blacklists them? That's utter bull crap, PERIOD! I would be on the phone with DIRECTV and FCC and anyone else that would listen and put a foot up their you know what. then after all that, I would cancel my service for good.


----------



## gio12

TBlazer07 said:


> I have an iPad2 GSM ..... oh well.


Coming any day now.


----------



## cypherx

gio12 said:


> Now this is CRAP on DIRECTV part. Some now runs stock software and DIRECTV blacklists them? That's utter bull crap, PERIOD! I would be on the phone with DIRECTV and FCC and anyone else that would listen and put a foot up their you know what. then after all that, I would cancel my service for good.


I agree. When ipad 3 comes out I'm formatting my ipad2 and selling it. If the UDID is ever blocked between now and then, hopefully the buyer isn't interested in DirecTV for ipad!


----------



## tuff bob

Chris Blount said:


> Of course there is:
> 
> hack - To use one's skill in computer programming to gain illegal or unauthorized access.
> 
> DirecTV has not authorized the access therefore there is hacking going on.


First of all your definition of 'hack' blows, sure, unauthorized access is one reason to hack, but thee are plenty of legal things to hack. For example, I wrotea little channel changing utility that only needs client side JavaScript on the browser. It was a nice little hack.

Also, jail breaking is legal and I don't see how directv has a leg to stand on when it comes to dictating how you you legally use your owned iPad. it would be rediculous for the directv app to block espn scorecenter because you might learn the results of games and not watch it anymore. I can't see why Cydia is any different?


----------



## TBlazer07

gio12 said:


> Coming any day now.


 Been hearing that for eons but I understand the GSM/CDMA version might not be. Not that it really matters because what I have does everything I need. I just like to be current.


----------



## Chris Blount

tuff bob said:


> Also, jail breaking is legal and I don't see how directv has a leg to stand on when it comes to dictating how you you legally use your owned iPad.


Sure it's legal to jailbreak the iPad but DirecTV doesn't have to give you anything. Its not a democracy. Their app, their rules. Simple as that.


----------



## dualsub2006

"tuff bob" said:


> Also, jail breaking is legal and I don't see how directv has a leg to stand on when it comes to dictating how you you legally use your owned iPad.


D* isn't dictating how you can or can't use your iPad, they are dictating how you can or can't use their app. Big difference. One thing belongs to you and the other thing doesn't.


----------



## adkinsjm

"Chris Blount" said:


> Of course there is:
> 
> hack - To use one's skill in computer programming to gain illegal or unauthorized access.
> 
> DirecTV has not authorized the access therefore there is hacking going on. I never said anyone was looking for something for free. All I'm saying is that the app is being used beyond its authorized capabilities thus is being hacked.


Why is that your opinion? Does getting free stuff from DirecTV and getting early access cloud your judgement?


----------



## Justin23

"adkinsjm" said:


> Why is that your opinion? Does getting free stuff from DirecTV and getting early access cloud your judgement?


^ Really unnecessary. Seriously....asking him why that is his opinion? That's why it is called an "opinion". Each to his own...


----------



## adkinsjm

"Justin23" said:


> ^ Really unnecessary. Seriously....asking him why that is his opinion? That's why it is called an "opinion". Each to his own...


No, it's a valid question. Does having a business relationship with DirecTV affect Chris' opinion?


----------



## dualsub2006

"adkinsjm" said:


> No, it's a valid question. Does having a business relationship with DirecTV affect Chris' opinion?


It's not a valid question as Chris isn't the only one that sees D*'s point on this.


----------



## Chris Blount

adkinsjm said:


> Why is that your opinion? Does getting free stuff from DirecTV and getting early access cloud your judgement?


 :lol: Always love it when this crops up. You are not the first to say this and certainly not the last but don't expect me to fall into that trap.

As far as the app and jailbreaking, as others have said, there are two sides to everything. I just happen to be on the side that some don't like. Can't please everyone I guess.


----------



## Shades228

I think what most people object to is the entitlement mentality that you should be able to do whatever you want with anyone's product.

I haven't purchased an apple product because I didn't want to contribute to the Apple machine that I don't agree with. With that said I also believe that companies have the right to protect their IP and just because they choose to do something that people don't like doesn't mean it's the wrong thing for that company.

I voided my warranty on my phone day 1 by rooting it. I don't get pissed off at the company for not supporting it anymore because it's a choice I made. I also don't get upset at companies that do things to remove my device because of what I've done. I just choose to do business with people that agree with what I want. 

I don't think banning the UDID is the right move as it could impact someone who didn't do something. I know that if people get it banned they won't tell someone it's banned. I think they should ban the account from being able to use the app after a warning. Then the hacks wouldn't matter anymore.


----------



## gio12

Shades228 said:


> I don't think banning the UDID is the right move as it could impact someone who didn't do something. I know that if people get it banned they won't tell someone it's banned. I think they should ban the account from being able to use the app after a warning. Then the hacks wouldn't matter anymore.


Its still a bone headed option. Ban someone's account because the JB their iOS device? Really?

What if someone changes their mind? :nono2:


----------



## tuff bob

Shades228 said:


> I think what most people object to is the entitlement mentality that you should be able to do whatever you want with anyone's product.


It's my product, I've bought and paid for the iPad. So either now I have to use the iPad in a way that a third party - DirecTV - dictates, or I have to delete their app to avoid risking a permanent blacklist.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

tuff bob said:


> It's my product, I've bought and paid for the iPad. So either now I have to use the iPad in a way that a third party - DirecTV - dictates, or I have to delete their app to avoid risking a permanent blacklist.


I believe that is the choice you have to make because of a choice you made earlier.


----------



## tuff bob

Scott Kocourek said:


> I believe that is the choice you have to make because of a choice you made earlier.


It shouldn't be a choice I have to make. Anyway, DirecTV have forced me to make a choice, the DirecTV has been deleted.

The problem is basically the permanent UDID blacklisting. That is a ridiculous overreaction because someone wants to change the iPad's font from Helvetica.


----------



## Scott Kocourek

I have been able to confirm that DIRECTV is *Not* blacklisting UDID's.


----------



## tuff bob

That's good about the UDID info. Hopefully DirecTV is collecting info on how many jb devices they see and its enough of a motivation for them to offer a version of the app without streaming (or disable the in-app streaming)


----------



## cypherx

"tuff bob" said:


> That's good about the UDID info. Hopefully DirecTV is collecting info on how many jb devices they see and its enough of a motivation for them to offer a version of the app without streaming (or disable the in-app streaming)


Or better yet, DRM the streaming much like the high profile content available from HBOGo, MaxGo and Netflix , all available on a jail broken iPad. That's what DRM is for.... To protect the content. Besides if the stream is protected they could offer it on more devices (web browsers on PC's mac's, androids, game consoles, etc) - much like HBO, ESPNGo and Netflix do today.


----------



## Chris Blount

Ok here is the deal folks.

The content on the app IS protected via DRM. Is there data somewhere that shows it is NOT protected? 

This app isn't just one provider. DirecTV licenses the content from SEVERAL providers and they don't all have the same rules thus a lock must be placed on the entire app.

Just because the good people here at DBSTalk do not steal content doesn't mean other jail breakers are NOT doing it.

There will be no jailbreak lite.

I don't know how much simpler I can make this. There is a method to the madness. It's not like DirecTV wants to do it this way.

Call me a shill or whatever but I know the background of what is happening and the reasons behind it. Some day things may change so I guess we need to all suck it up for now.


----------



## cypherx

That's a shame they will never allow streaming to a PC then. On both windows and Mac I have full access to the filesystem and tcp/ip stack. Too bad HBO style DRM isn't enough. A shame you can watch a 5 star R rated movie on a PC or jail broken iPad via HBOGo app (or website). Full frontal nudity, adult themes and language, and high profile blockbuster hits... You name it.

A shame we can do that but god forbid we watch "house hunters" on HGTV via an iPad we paid for locked behind DirecTv.com credentials we are given from service we pay for.


----------



## TBlazer07

Sadly the "cat and mouse" game will continue. At least it should keep a couple programmers on both sides busy fighting each other. :lol:


----------



## cypherx

"TBlazer07" said:


> Sadly the "cat and mouse" game will continue. At least it should keep a couple programmers on both sides busy fighting each other. :lol:


Short of creating some sort of "sandbox" or VM to execute protected apps... Your right.


----------



## adkinsjm

cypherx said:


> Short of creating some sort of "sandbox" or VM to execute protected apps... Your right.


The game will eventually end as DirecTV and other providers will eventually offer streaming of all channels outside of the home to iOS and Android devices.


----------



## dualsub2006

"adkinsjm" said:


> The game will eventually end as DirecTV and other providers will eventually offer streaming of all channels outside of the home to iOS and Android devices.


I agree with you, eventually TV will be available everywhere. That doesn't mean that D* will stop blocking jailbroken devices.

And, to date, D* doesn't have any app that provides streaming to Android devices. Assuming they do the same thing, rooted devices will be blocked.

In the event that D* eventually offers streaming outside the home, that in no way means the jailbreak cat & mouse game will end.


----------



## cypherx

adkinsjm said:


> The game will eventually end as DirecTV and other providers will eventually offer streaming of all channels outside of the home to iOS and Android devices.


Right because proper DRM would be needed not just for an iPad, but how would you protect your content on a machine that has full access to it's hard drive, memory and network subsystems? A common Windows, Linux or Mac OS system does not have the same sandbox style restrictions one has in an unmodified off the shelf iPad.

It's already known that DirecTV chose NDS VideoGuard Connect DRM as stated earlier in this thread supported by a link.

NDS even states VideoGuard Connect DRM has an "Industry-leading security rating in an independent security audit, with approval by major Hollywood studios" I know one of the points pointed out earlier was that maybe because DirecTV licenses content from several sources they are resorting to this ban. Well this NDS solution has approval by major Hollywood studios. This is why I think if a secure DRM platform was in place, this app along with it's streaming could be used on any hardware that has full access to it's root file system.. be that an iPad or a Windows / Mac / Linux computer, whatever it may be. If NDS wasn't trusted, I don't think DirecTV would of signed up with them for this product.

If DirecTV is available anywhere, what's to stop me from doing memory dumps and analysis on the PC? The DRM is there to obscure and protect content so it cannot be duplicated unfairly. If it can do that on a PC it can do that on an iPad period.


----------



## saunderse4

And this is why you use a Slingbox. That way Directv can't tell me how I watch their broadcast tv on any of my devices I own. Oh and I get live streaming of all of there channels not just the ones they choose for me in their app. To be honest the live stream is a joke with Directv.


----------



## cypherx

"saunderse4" said:


> And this is why you use a Slingbox. That way Directv can't tell me how I watch their broadcast tv on any of my devices I own. Oh and I get live streaming of all of there channels not just the ones they choose for me in their app. To be honest the live stream is a joke with Directv.


Right, sounds like a plan.

I was gonna suggest that DirecTV just make the app require iOS 5 since there was no jailbreak for it on an ipad2, but guess what was released today.... Looks like I may redo my iPad this weekend!


----------



## dualsub2006

"saunderse4" said:


> To be honest the live stream is a joke with Directv.


compared to what? Dish doesn't have live streaming. My local cable company doesn't have an app, let alone live streaming.

Compared to a Slingbox? Well, that's a totally different product and isnt included at no extra charge with my subscription.

If I'm missing the joke, please help me out.


----------



## TBlazer07

I just loaded the iPHONE version and it works fine to set recordings. Thats good enough for me. Duhhh...... Never thought of that.


----------



## gio12

Nice to see the latest DIRECTV iPad app is cracked again. When will these fools learn and just give up?


----------



## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> Nice to see the latest DIRECTV iPad app is cracked again. When will these fools learn and just give up?


I'm sure D* appreciates the heads up. Should see an update soon.


----------



## gio12

And a patch will follow after that. You would think DIRECTV would use there resources for something better.


----------



## dennisj00

I'd actually think the hackers would use their resources for a JOB!!


----------



## cypherx

I had an older version working. Required some crafty trickery but I got past the minimum version requirement. Nice to update now though.

Directv back on my iPad's home screen.


----------



## gio12

"dennisj00" said:


> I'd actually think the hackers would use their resources for a JOB!!


Because they can hack an app in 2 min, means they don't have a job? Really? I can say that about 20 I so members and mods here.


----------



## Chris Blount

dennisj00 said:


> I'd actually think the hackers would use their resources for a JOB!!


It's the same old story. Those who choose not to follow rules usually muck it up for everyone else. Happened in grammer school and keeps going well into adult life. It's a shame some never grow up. (present company accepted of course).


----------



## dualsub2006

"cypherx" said:


> Directv back on my iPad's home screen.


That is a through skinning of your iPad. I've seen a number of Android devices totally skinned like iOS devices, but yours is thee most complete Android skin I've seen.


----------



## dennisj00

My point was if the hackers spent the same resources on their JOB as they do trying to get around the system, plant viruses, bots, etc, they'd probably be rich or certainly making more money than blindly planting some virus with no real financial gain.

Just like a bank or any other company, Directv has to put a good-faith effort to safeguard the product that their suppliers have put in their hands to deliver only to paying customers. Efforts that subvert that whether it's burning bootleg DVDs, bit-torrent files, identity theft, etc. end up costing all of us.

I remember the days that a customer would hand me a stack of diskettes of something like Lotus 123 and ask that I install the same copy (that they had gotten free from someone) on 20 or more workstations, instead of paying for letitimate licenses.

I had to refuse, explain my position on shoplifting, and probably lost a few customers along the way.


----------



## gio12

dennisj00 said:


> I remember the days that a customer would hand me a stack of diskettes of something like Lotus 123 and ask that I install the same copy (that they had gotten free from someone) on 20 or more workstations, instead of paying for letitimate licenses.
> 
> I had to refuse, explain my position on shoplifting, and probably lost a few customers along the way.


Not even CLOSE to the same thing here. :roll eyes: :nono2:


----------



## cypherx

dennisj00 said:


> Just like a bank or any other company, Directv has to put a good-faith effort to safeguard the product that their suppliers have put in their hands to deliver only to paying customers.


1. Block streaming behind DirecTV Username and Password. Credentials tied to authentication system that determines if you have the video package that allows you the rights to view that channel.

2. Check the LAN for presence of legitimate, DirecTV DVR Receiver as a secondary authentication token that you are within your home reciever area.

3. Check local IP, VPN status and latency to DVR to ensure this is a local connection and your not trying to placeshift (this is not a slingbox).

Put a steak in it, done.

As for my iPad it's running the HoneyPad theme for Dreamboard. It's fully customizable. Background moves with swiping from screen to screen. Widgets can be placed anywhere. Icon's can be arranged any way you want from screen to screen. A full apps list looks like a Honeycomb tablet. Best of both worlds with the customize-ability of android but the appstore library of an ipad/iphone.


----------



## Chris Blount

cypherx said:


> 1. Block streaming behind DirecTV Username and Password. Credentials tied to authentication system that determines if you have the video package that allows you the rights to view that channel.
> 
> 2. Check the LAN for presence of legitimate, DirecTV DVR Receiver as a secondary authentication token that you are within your home reciever area.
> 
> 3. Check local IP, VPN status and latency to DVR to ensure this is a local connection and your not trying to placeshift (this is not a slingbox).


Okay so once jailbroken, nobody would ever dare to circumvent those restrictions. :nono2:


----------



## cypherx

"Chris Blount" said:


> Okay so once jailbroken, nobody would ever dare to circumvent those restrictions. :nono2:


Well username and password is on DirecTV's servers. You hack that and we all have more to worry about than streaming to an iPad. Like customer credit card information, addresses, social security numbers, etc.


----------



## TBlazer07

Just sold my iPad2 waiting for a 3 or whatever they will call it. Got a pretty penny for it on CL just before prices started plummeting.

Wonder how long it will take to JB the 3 if it comes out with 5.1 as predicted.


----------



## Combat Medic

Chris Blount said:


> Okay so once jailbroken, nobody would ever dare to circumvent those restrictions. :nono2:


If somebody wants to 'steal' movies there are easier and higher quality ways to get it then copying it from an iPad.


----------



## TBlazer07

Combat Medic said:


> If somebody wants to 'steal' movies there are easier and higher quality ways to get it then copying it from an iPad.


 I've tried that logic but it doesn't seem to work on those who made their minds up that the goal is to steal programming. Anyway, the issue seems to have been resolved.


----------



## ajiuO

dennisj00 said:


> My point was if the hackers spent the same resources on their JOB as they do trying to get around the system, plant viruses, bots, etc, they'd probably be rich or certainly making more money than blindly planting some virus with no real financial gain.
> 
> Just like a bank or any other company, Directv has to put a good-faith effort to safeguard the product that their suppliers have put in their hands to deliver only to paying customers. Efforts that subvert that whether it's burning bootleg DVDs, bit-torrent files, identity theft, etc. end up costing all of us.
> 
> I remember the days that a customer would hand me a stack of diskettes of something like Lotus 123 and ask that I install the same copy (that they had gotten free from someone) on 20 or more workstations, instead of paying for letitimate licenses.
> 
> I had to refuse, explain my position on shoplifting, and probably lost a few customers along the way.


You have no clue what jailbreaking is about.

When you buy an iDevice. You can only buy apps from the app store. There are a lot of app developers who can not sale apps because they don't meet certian requirements that apple puts in place.

First of all jailbreaking has been ruled as perfectly legal and has nothing to do with software piracy. Jailbreaking is simply a means of gaining root acsess to the file system so that an alternate app store can be installed (cydia).

Cydia allows developers who can not sale their apps on the official app store a place to do buisness. Most of the hackers involved in jailbreaking are completely againsted software piracy... There actualy is a good reason for hackers to spend time jailbreaking.... They can sale apps apps that they develop on cydia.

I have personly spent more money on cydia apps then I have on app store apps... There are a lot of cool apps that add a lot of functionality to the devices.... In fact most of what iOS devices have today came from the jailbreak screen.... The first app market (installer) came from jailbreaking.

It's obvious that apple looks at what people use on jailbroken devices and often times implement the features... Apps, backgrounding, mms, notifications, multitasking..... Were all on jailbroken iPhones first..

So stop associating jailbreaking with ilegal activity.... It's not... The only reason apple even cares is because they don't want to have to deal with support problems related to porley written software... And that is understandable. They also want a cut of the apps sold witch they don't get from cydia.

Jailbreaking just makes portable devises more like computers. If you think that jailbreaking is the cause of piracy.... Then you should also agree that Microsoft and apple are the cause of piracy on computers by allowing root acsess to the file system and not saling software exclusively through their own online store..

I don't think directv has a problem with jailbreaking itself... They are just worried about somone making an app that could capture video.. That is understandable as well because then they have the mpaa and everyone else coming down on them...

My suggestion to directv is to go the encryption rout.... Because they aren't going to win the the cat and mouse game of jailbreak detection. They made dirctv2pc work... It shouldn't be any different...

Sheesh


----------



## Gotchaa

"ajiuO" said:


> You have no clue what jailbreaking is about.
> 
> When you buy an iDevice. You can only buy apps from the app store. There are a lot of app developers who can not sale apps because they don't meet certian requirements that apple puts in place.
> 
> First of all jailbreaking has been ruled as perfectly legal and has nothing to do with software piracy. Jailbreaking is simply a means of gaining root acsess to the file system so that an alternate app store can be installed (cydia).
> 
> Cydia allows developers who can not sale their apps on the official app store a place to do buisness. Most of the hackers involved in jailbreaking are completely againsted software piracy... There actualy is a good reason for hackers to spend time jailbreaking.... They can sale apps apps that they develop on cydia.
> 
> I have personly spent more money on cydia apps then I have on app store apps... There are a lot of cool apps that add a lot of functionality to the devices.... In fact most of what iOS devices have today came from the jailbreak screen.... The first app market (installer) came from jailbreaking.
> 
> It's obvious that apple looks at what people use on jailbroken devices and often times implement the features... Apps, backgrounding, mms, notifications, multitasking..... Were all on jailbroken iPhones first..
> 
> So stop associating jailbreaking with ilegal activity.... It's not... The only reason apple even cares is because they don't want to have to deal with support problems related to porley written software... And that is understandable. They also want a cut of the apps sold witch they don't get from cydia.
> 
> Jailbreaking just makes portable devises more like computers. If you think that jailbreaking is the cause of piracy.... Then you should also agree that Microsoft and apple are the cause of piracy on computers by allowing root acsess to the file system and not saling software exclusively through their own online store..
> 
> I don't think directv has a problem with jailbreaking itself... They are just worried about somone making an app that could capture video.. That is understandable as well because then they have the mpaa and everyone else coming down on them...
> 
> My suggestion to directv is to go the encryption rout.... Because they aren't going to win the the cat and mouse game of jailbreak detection. They made dirctv2pc work... It shouldn't be any different...
> 
> Sheesh


+1

JB is not equivalent to piracy, it is just an alternative ecosystem for apps "." What others choose to do on a JB device is their business.


----------



## dennisj00

Along with the nevermentioned purpose of jailbreaking . . . sharing paid apps.


----------



## ajiuO

dennisj00 said:


> Along with the nevermentioned purpose of jailbreaking . . . sharing paid apps.


Sharing paid apps is not the purpose of jailbreaking.

The purpose of jail breaking is to gain access to the file system (Just like you have on your computer).

There are different reasons for wanting access to the file system.. The number 1 reason that people jailbreak their iPhone is for the purpose of installing Cydia.

Cydia is an alternative app store that legally sales apps that apple will not not sale in their own app store... why is this so hard to understand?

There are people who pirate software on apple devices.. they are the same people who pirate software on mac and pc...... So why do you choose to single out jail breaking devices?

So let me ask. Do you think it would be good for Microsoft and Apple to take away your ability to acsess the file system on your computer? wouldn't it be better if all software developers had to sale their software in the microsoft or apple app stores and pay them 30%.... with no other alternative? I mean the main reson that people want access to their file system is so they can pirate software right??

Wrong.. that is ridiculous... and that is why jail breaking was ruled as being legal.

If you have a problem with software piracy (which I would fully agree with you on) then why don't you go after the software pirates... they are the problem, not people who jailbreak their phones.

I know a lot of people who have jailbroken phones and none of them have pirated software. its wrong to label jailbreakers. I jailbreak my iPhone and I'm proud of it... my iPhone can do a lot of cool things that non jailbroken iPhones can't do.

While we are at it why don't we blame people who leave their cars unlocked for car robberies... no need to blame the robbers... leaving your car unlocked is the problem... right?


----------



## DodgerKing

"dennisj00" said:


> Along with the nevermentioned purpose of jailbreaking . . . sharing paid apps.


You can share paid APPs without JB. My wife and I have separate accounts and share APPs all of the time. All you have to do is log into someone else's account and install their APPs.

We should have created one shared account instead of two separate accounts.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

so what allows them to not be afraid of streaming on the PC and instead be afraid of portable devices that are jailbroken/rooted?

OR can we not stream live content to PC or plan to do so? 

i remember this earlier discussion was that it was easier to protect stored content than streaming live content like netflix vs the ipad streaming, one is live but other isn't...


----------



## Chris Blount

ajiuO said:


> The number 1 reason that people jailbreak their iPhone is for the purpose of installing Cydia.


 Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.


----------



## TBlazer07

Chris Blount said:


> Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.


 Just curious. Are there statistics to say the number 1 reason people jailbreak is to pirate software? I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to pirate software.


----------



## cypherx

I jailbreak for cydia for the multitude of customization apps. I'm pretty sure I gave a short list earlier in this threads life, so I won't reiterate it. Heck I posted a screen shot of my iPad which looks much like a Honeycomb tablet (thanks to Dreamboard and HoneyPad Pro theme). Something super simple like putting the date next to the time in the upper bar, or further customization of the notification center make Jailbreaking worthwhile.

ajiuO, I agree with you 100%. But on THIS site your not going to get anywhere. This site heavily leans towards DirecTV in their favor. Trying to debate anything wrong with DirecTV is like trying to convince a right wing republican that pro choice is better than pro life. 

Hey all I can say right now is DirecTV works on my iPad. Also a pretty big breakthrough occurred where we found some new system hooks that eases up on keeping it patched a little bit. Will it be patched forever? Probably not... but it keeps everyone busy and the programmers at DirecTV have something to do to get paid for. (Though I'd rather see time invested into improvements like unified playlist & series manager / to do management or copying favorites and settings from receiver to receiver.)

How will DirecTV enable live streaming on the PC? I don't know specifics, but I'm sure they've done their homework since we ALL have root filesystem access on a Mac or PC.


----------



## dennisj00

It's too easy! Just google 'estimate of lost sales of apps from jailbreaking' and read the results!


----------



## Chris Blount

TBlazer07 said:


> Just curious. Are there statistics to say the number 1 reason people jailbreak is to pirate software? I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to pirate software.


Give me a break. :nono:

It was just a question and I never said that most users jailbreak to pirate software.


----------



## ajiuO

dennisj00 said:


> It's too easy! Just google 'estimate of lost sales of apps from jailbreaking' and read the results!


Why can't you answer any of my questions?

How does jailbreaking equal piracy.... It doesn't. That is a 100% fact.

Jailbreaking = acsess to file system.
Piracy = piracy
People who pirate software are responsible for a loss in app sals... Not jailbreaking.

You seriously don't get it... You can't answer my questions because your logic is flawed. You want to blame jailbreaking and not software pirates... And I don't get why.

One more time... Do you think it's wrong for Microsoft and apple to give file system acsess to computer users? I bet you won't Won't answer that... Because then it will be to hard to single out jailbroken devices.

What's the number one cause of app sharing on a windows pc? Is it file system acsess??


----------



## ajiuO

cypherx said:


> I jailbreak for cydia for the multitude of customization apps. I'm pretty sure I gave a short list earlier in this threads life, so I won't reiterate it. Heck I posted a screen shot of my iPad which looks much like a Honeycomb tablet (thanks to Dreamboard and HoneyPad Pro theme). Something super simple like putting the date next to the time in the upper bar, or further customization of the notification center make Jailbreaking worthwhile.
> 
> ajiuO, I agree with you 100%. But on THIS site your not going to get anywhere. This site heavily leans towards DirecTV in their favor. Trying to debate anything wrong with DirecTV is like trying to convince a right wing republican that pro choice is better than pro life.
> 
> Hey all I can say right now is DirecTV works on my iPad. Also a pretty big breakthrough occurred where we found some new system hooks that eases up on keeping it patched a little bit. Will it be patched forever? Probably not... but it keeps everyone busy and the programmers at DirecTV have something to do to get paid for. (Though I'd rather see time invested into improvements like unified playlist & series manager / to do management or copying favorites and settings from receiver to receiver.)
> 
> How will DirecTV enable live streaming on the PC? I don't know specifics, but I'm sure they've done their homework since we ALL have root filesystem access on a Mac or PC.


I don't think directv is wrong in trying to protect their content... Just their aproach.

The thing that's getting me fired up is ignorant people who don't even know what jail breaking is. They think that jailbreaking actualy is some form of piracy, and for some reason want to shift the blame frome the software pirates to jailbreaking it self.

I want directv to protect its content... First of all, as far as I know, there is nothing out there that allows directv iPad content to be saved... But I get that they are being proactive to prevent it.... The thing is.... Jailbreak detection is not the way to go... There will always be a way around it... And jailbreaking is legal... So directv doesn't even have the law on their side... They need to focus their efforts on encrypting the content... Then if Somone breaks the encryption they can go after that person legally... It should not be any different then directv2pc... Jailbreaking is not the problem, and it's not going away. Directv knows that jailbreaking is not ilegal or they would have this thread removed from here quicker then you could snap your fingers..... I'm just trying to offer them a better suggestion on protecting their content

Jailbreak detection.. No, encryption... Yes


----------



## TBlazer07

Chris Blount said:


> Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.





TBlazer07 said:


> Just curious. Are there statistics to say the number 1 reason people jailbreak is to pirate software? I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to pirate software.





Chris Blount said:


> Give me a break. :nono:
> 
> It was just a question and I never said that most users jailbreak to pirate software.


Tsk Tsk. I need a break as well. :eek2: It was simply a comment on an oft repeated fallacy. I'm just as skeptical when people constantly connect JB & Piracy and insinuate that most who JB do it for the free software. I don't root my Android phone for free software either. Sure, lots of people steal software, but unfortunately nothing anyone does will ever stop it whether it be 99cent IOS software or $999 computer software.

Speaking of piracy, I'd love to see the music files on the hard drives of all the folks who are so "high and mighty" about software piracy. Oh wait, I forgot, that's different, it's only music. And no, before you say I'm accusing you of stealing music, I'm not. It's just a generalization.


----------



## ajiuO

Another thing that peopl need to understand about the whole situation... Let me give you a little bit of history on jailbreaking.

When the iPhone first came out there was no such think as iPhone Apps. Apple did not allow acsess to the file system because they wanted the device to be simple to use and did not want users messing with system files that could inhibit the reliability of the device..... To put it simply it was to protect their reputation of building quality devises that are reliable.... It had nothing to do with preventing app sharing... Because there were no apps to share.


When the iPhone was originally jailbroken... It had nothing to do with software piracy because there was no software to pirate... In fact the main reason for jailbreaking was so that you could install apps.... There was somthing called installer.... It was the first iPhone app store. For the first time apps could be installed on the iPhone.... This became huge and apple saw the potential. They made their own app store and charged developers to sale apps... They also added a lot of restrictions on what apps could do. There were some developers who still wanted to make apps that went beyond what apple would alow... So jailbreaking continued... Eventually installer was replaced by cydia and rock, they added the ability for developers to sale apps just as they do on the AppStore.. And this caused a lot of innovation to kick in...

Yes people pirate apps. Not only do they pirate app store Apps but they pirate cydia apps as well.... The cydia developers and a lot of the people who develop the jailbreaks hate piracy just as much as anyone.

You have to look at all the good that jailbreaking has done... It is because of jailbreaking that we have a mobile app market and many of the innovative features that the iPhone has.... Apple always implements features that have a high demand in the jailbreak market.

Jailbreaking is great for apple... It's kind of like an open market beta test that apple doesn't have to offer support on... They can take the ideas that they like, refine them, and make them public.

So stop picking on jailbreaking and focus your hate on software pirates


----------



## ajiuO

TBlazer07 said:


> Tsk Tsk. I need a break as well. :eek2: It was simply a comment on an oft repeated fallacy. I'm just as skeptical when people constantly connect JB & Piracy and insinuate that most who JB do it for the free software. I don't root my Android phone for free software either. Sure, lots of people steal software, but unfortunately nothing anyone does will ever stop it whether it be 99cent IOS software or $999 computer software.
> 
> Speaking of piracy, I'd love to see the music files on the hard drives of all the folks who are so "high and mighty" about software piracy. Oh wait, I forgot, that's different, it's only music. And no, before you say I'm accusing you of stealing music, I'm not. It's just a generalization.


Dumb question... I'm not an android user so I'm not entirely clear on this.... But what is the point in rooting? I though android was "open"... That isn't meant as sarcasm... I'm just curious... I'm sure there is a reason.


----------



## dennisj00

I never said that all jailbreakers pirated software, I just said it was an unspoken reason for jailbreaking.

And since this thread is about the iPad app, your other comments are meaningless.

I understand some of the 'legal' reasons for jailbreaking, but I don't do it because I don't want to find some of my apps not working until some additional hack is published.


----------



## ajiuO

dennisj00 said:


> I never said that all jailbreakers pirated software, I just said it was an unspoken reason for jailbreaking.
> 
> And since this thread is about the iPad app, your other comments are meaningless.
> 
> I understand some of the 'legal' reasons for jailbreaking, but I don't do it because I don't want to find some of my apps not working until some additional hack is published.


Yeah but you are implying that piracy is the purpose of jailbreaking and making it sound as if jailbreaking is bad because of it....I am trying to educate people on the misconception that you are representing.... I am also not denying that piracy is a problem and have no problem with directv trying to fight video piracy.... I am simply explaining why jailbreaking is not the problem.

And no ... What I'm saying is not meaningless. It specifically says on the rules of this thread that you can discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking and rooting... That's exactly what I'm doing... Let me post a copy of the rules for you.

Also... That's fine if you don't want to jailbreak... It's not for everyone... Some people are willing to deal with the bugs and stuff to get features... Some are not.... This is the same reason some people do CE testing for directv and some don't... Just don't point to jailbreaking as a sorce of negativity 



> This is the official thread for discussing the use of jailbroken or rooted hardware with DIRECTV devices and DIRECTV service.
> 
> You may:
> Discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking or rooting.
> 
> You may not:
> Discuss how to jailbreak or root
> Discuss how to hack apps to work with jailbroken or rooted hardware
> Attack others who choose to exercise their legal right to modify purchased hardware
> In any way discuss any violation of terms&conditions, customer agreements, or in any other way break forum rules.
> 
> Go!


----------



## DodgerKing

Chris Blount said:


> Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.


You do not need to JB your phone to pirate software. That can be done without JB.


----------



## DodgerKing

ajiuO said:


> Another thing that peopl need to understand about the whole situation... Let me give you a little bit of history on jailbreaking.
> 
> When the iPhone first came out there was no such think as iPhone Apps. Apple did not allow acsess to the file system because they wanted the device to be simple to use and did not want users messing with system files that could inhibit the reliability of the device..... To put it simply it was to protect their reputation of building quality devises that are reliable.... It had nothing to do with preventing app sharing... Because there were no apps to share.
> 
> When the iPhone was originally jailbroken... It had nothing to do with software piracy because there was no software to pirate... In fact the main reason for jailbreaking was so that you could install apps.... There was somthing called installer.... It was the first iPhone app store. For the first time apps could be installed on the iPhone.... This became huge and apple saw the potential. They made their own app store and charged developers to sale apps... They also added a lot of restrictions on what apps could do. There were some developers who still wanted to make apps that went beyond what apple would alow... So jailbreaking continued... Eventually installer was replaced by cydia and rock, they added the ability for developers to sale apps just as they do on the AppStore.. And this caused a lot of innovation to kick in...
> 
> Yes people pirate apps. Not only do they pirate app store Apps but they pirate cydia apps as well.... The cydia developers and a lot of the people who develop the jailbreaks hate piracy just as much as anyone.
> 
> You have to look at all the good that jailbreaking has done... It is because of jailbreaking that we have a mobile app market and many of the innovative features that the iPhone has.... Apple always implements features that have a high demand in the jailbreak market.
> 
> Jailbreaking is great for apple... It's kind of like an open market beta test that apple doesn't have to offer support on... They can take the ideas that they like, refine them, and make them public.
> 
> So stop picking on jailbreaking and focus your hate on software pirates


Yep. Many of the changes Apple makes on their phones is a direct result of the popularity of these ideas that first came out in the JB communities. Many of the popular Cydia APPs eventually became iTunes APPs or official Apple setting tweaks.

You can thank the JB community for advancing the technology that many of the non JB now use.


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## cypherx

ajiuO, I agree with everything you said.

One interesting point that always comes up in this topic is piracy. What exactly are we pirating? The DirecTV app is FREE.

Are they worried about the streaming content? Well its behind a pay wall. You know that DirecTV.com username and password you enter into the app? Yeah that is authenticated on a secure (HTTPs) web server which checks DirecTV's database to be sure your authorized programming. Not only that but the DirecTV iPad app ensures that it is able to contact a DVR on the local LAN subnet to police that your within your legal jurisdiction to the content. Your address on the account must be where your DVR is, at least that is what is implied here.

Are they worried about slinging the content over the internet? Well then sue Slingbox, Vulkano and anyone that makes video capture cards for the PC.

If they properly DRM the stream then you wouldn't be able to capture it via a proxy or network mirror / span port. Yes, you can do that today even WITH a STOCK iPad. You can always get to the network layer with a smart switch or a proxy server. Why do you think the industry developed secured protocols like HTTPS, DTCP, certificates, tokens, and even proprietary methods for securing end to end communications? How do you think HBOGo works on the very same iPad that the DirecTV app was programmed for? DRM over HTTPS. Proxy it all you want and your not getting anywhere. That's not the case with DirecTV last time I checked about a month ago.

Anyway it doesn't matter right now because the app works. The appropriate patch is out there with the proper search engine query. However to the uninformed and casual users who may of stumbled across a jailbroken device and don't know anything else, they wouldn't have the appropriate patch and therefore DirecTV's efforts were successful.


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## Scott Kocourek

cypherx said:


> ajiuO, I agree with everything you said.
> 
> One interesting point that always comes up in this topic is piracy. What exactly are we pirating? The DirecTV app is FREE.
> [...]


But does it not come with conditions? It is still their product they allow anyone that follows the terms to use.

I would probably let you borrow my truck to go to the hospital or to work for free but if I asked you not to go out drinking with it I should be able to take it back.


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## ajiuO

cypherx said:


> ajiuO, I agree with everything you said.
> 
> One interesting point that always comes up in this topic is piracy. What exactly are we pirating? The DirecTV app is FREE.
> 
> Are they worried about the streaming content? Well its behind a pay wall. You know that DirecTV.com username and password you enter into the app? Yeah that is authenticated on a secure (HTTPs) web server which checks DirecTV's database to be sure your authorized programming. Not only that but the DirecTV iPad app ensures that it is able to contact a DVR on the local LAN subnet to police that your within your legal jurisdiction to the content. Your address on the account must be where your DVR is, at least that is what is implied here.
> 
> Are they worried about slinging the content over the internet? Well then sue Slingbox, Vulkano and anyone that makes video capture cards for the PC.
> 
> If they properly DRM the stream then you wouldn't be able to capture it via a proxy or network mirror / span port. Yes, you can do that today even WITH a STOCK iPad. You can always get to the network layer with a smart switch or a proxy server. Why do you think the industry developed secured protocols like HTTPS, DTCP, certificates, tokens, and even proprietary methods for securing end to end communications? How do you think HBOGo works on the very same iPad that the DirecTV app was programmed for? DRM over HTTPS. Proxy it all you want and your not getting anywhere. That's not the case with DirecTV last time I checked about a month ago.
> 
> Anyway it doesn't matter right now because the app works. The appropriate patch is out there with the proper search engine query. However to the uninformed and casual users who may of stumbled across a jailbroken device and don't know anything else, they wouldn't have the appropriate patch and therefore DirecTV's efforts were successful.


I think the main concern of directv (and it's a legitimate concern) is this...

They don't want people distributing content on the Internet.... It is legal to record live broadcast... So if people were just to record shows that were playing on their iPad... It would not be a huge problem... However the big concern is that people are going to take the content and share it on the Internet..... The producers of the content don't want people getting their content for free... So if directv were just to let that happen they would have a lot of problems and develop bad relationships with the content producers.... That would be bad for everyone... So basically directv has to be proactive... I don't think they could care less if your iPad is jailbroken or not.... They just have to take preventative action to keep people happy...

I think that encryption would be a better aproach because then they aren't fighting an unwinnable battle... And it is absolutely ilegal to decrypt encrypted media... So they would have the law on their side..

There could be one good side to all of this... If directv continues to fight the jailbreak detection war... It's gotten to a point where there are ways around the version detection that force you to upgrade to a patched version.... So directv needs a way to get people to upgrade willingly....the only way to do that is by enticing them with new features... So it could help to advance the software more quickly.... I think that eventually directv will just encrypt the streem and drop the jailbreak detection though because ultimately they will have to spend less time fighting it... Just my 3 cents


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## TBlazer07

ajiuO said:


> Dumb question... I'm not an android user so I'm not entirely clear on this.... But what is the point in rooting? I though android was "open"... That isn't meant as sarcasm... I'm just curious... I'm sure there is a reason.


 Mainly it allows you to add custom ROMs. Since it is open source devs have access to the source code and they can add/modify it to make it better. It also allows you to remove the "provider bloat" apps that are worthless crap. Some manufacturers do lock you out of doing this by encrypting access to the bootloader but are now beginning to allow access but at the cost of signing away your warranty rights.


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## cypherx

Scott Kocourek said:


> But does it not come with conditions? It is still their product they allow anyone that follows the terms to use.
> 
> I would probably let you borrow my truck to go to the hospital or to work for free but if I asked you not to go out drinking with it I should be able to take it back.


Ok simple analogy. The conditions is "DirecTV application for iPad is not supported on jailbroken devices". Ok it's not supported. If the program crashes or if I have issues with it, I will not ask for technical support. Guess what... Mac OSX is not supported on a PC either, but I dual boot it on my AMD Athlon based system at home. Not that I would ever ask Apple for support on it (I'm not that dumb).

I'm fine with that as a warning, but don't lock it out of remote control.

ajiuO,

I understand what you are saying but doesn't a Slingbox or Vulkano broadcast over the internet? Couldn't you give your friends the login for this equipment and watch the streams? HBOGo is protected, but guess what people still rip HBO series like Game of Thrones and True Blood. I'm not sure how exactly but I bet an HD capture card with component breakout cables could do it right off of an HD set top box from a cable or DBS provider.

But I agree with you. Just DRM the stream and be done with it. As it stands right now I can setup a man in the middle proxy server and pull the stream as it is being played back (even on a stock iPad). So THAT is the hole in the system.... NOT whether or not an iPad is jailbroken. Jailbroken or NOT, an intelligent smart switch or web proxy doesn't care. They need to protect the stream at the lowest OSI layer possible... not at the top application layer!

And yes I was using the version trickery before 1.3.9 was patched. A little bit of a workaround but it was fun reverse engineering it. And hey while working on that is when I found out how the streams are delivered, how you can redirect them off network, etc.. Stuff I NEVER EVER would of even thought to look into if the app wasn't "jailbreak protected" in the first place. Nor will I share or publish this information because all that would do is make the situation worse.


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## DodgerKing

Scott Kocourek said:


> But does it not come with conditions? It is still their product they allow anyone that follows the terms to use.
> 
> I would probably let you borrow my truck to go to the hospital or to work for free but if I asked you not to go out drinking with it I should be able to take it back.


The issue is they are doing this out of ignorance. They are worried about the neighbor who borrows the truck when the real worry should be the car jacker standing on the corner right in front of them. This is like fearing Big Foot when walking through the forest when a mountain lion is lurking behind you.

The threat is not the JB, the threat are hackers whom can hack a stream without the device being JB.


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## Chris Blount

TBlazer07 said:


> Tsk Tsk. I need a break as well. :eek2: It was simply a comment on an oft repeated fallacy. I'm just as skeptical when people constantly connect JB & Piracy and insinuate that most who JB do it for the free software. I don't root my Android phone for free software either. Sure, lots of people steal software, but unfortunately nothing anyone does will ever stop it whether it be 99cent IOS software or $999 computer software.
> 
> Speaking of piracy, I'd love to see the music files on the hard drives of all the folks who are so "high and mighty" about software piracy. Oh wait, I forgot, that's different, it's only music. And no, before you say I'm accusing you of stealing music, I'm not. It's just a generalization.


Obviously we can go in circles about this all day and I don't feel the need to do that. I have better things to do. All I was asking for is some stats on how many use Cydia vs how many jailbreak to pirate software. I guess those stats would be difficult to get anyway because anyone who steals software would probably not admit it in public.

Oh, and all of the music on my hard drive is purchased thank you very much.


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## sigma1914

Every one of my friends who JB do it for free stuff. I don't really care who pirates media.


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## ajiuO

TBlazer07 said:


> Mainly it allows you to add custom ROMs. Since it is open source devs have access to the source code and they can add/modify it to make it better. It also allows you to remove the "provider bloat" apps that are worthless crap. Some manufacturers do lock you out of doing this by encrypting access to the bootloader but are now beginning to allow access but at the cost of signing away your warranty rights.


Sounds a lot more complicated then IOS. When you say custom rom. I assume you mean that you are flashing the boot rom... Not sure how that helps the os and also sounds like you would have to reflash it if you wanted to get rid of the rootingn. Apple does not let providers install anything on the phone and while it's not open the os can still be made better via extensions and tweaks.... And everything can be undone by restoring your phone.


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## DodgerKing

sigma1914 said:


> Every one of my friends who JB do it for free stuff. I don't really care who pirates media.


Everyone of my friends, including myself, JB to tweak the phone more to our liking and does not do it to get free stuff.


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## ajiuO

sigma1914 said:


> Every one of my friends who JB do it for free stuff. I don't really care who pirates media.


I get a lot of free stuff from cydia... But none of it is ilegal. SBsetting is free... And a must have.


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## TBlazer07

ajiuO said:


> Sounds a lot more complicated then IOS. When you say custom rom. I assume you mean that you are flashing the boot rom... Not sure how that helps the os and also sounds like you would have to reflash it if you wanted to get rid of the rootingn. Apple does not let providers install anything on the phone and while it's not open the os can still be made better via extensions and tweaks.... And everything can be undone by restoring your phone.


It's really very simple. I own(ed) jailbroken IOS devices (iPhone & iPad 2) and rooted Android devices (Samsung tablet & Galaxy Nexus phone) and it's basically the same thing. Rooting gives you access to the low level OS as does JB. You simply download a ROM (basically the entire O/S with mods in 1 zip package) and load it through a utility. Takes under 2 minutes.


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## DodgerKing

ajiuO said:


> I get a lot of free stuff from cydia... But none of it is ilegal. SBsetting is free... And a must have.


So do I, but I do not think that is what he meant. I interpreted his post as saying they get free iTunes APPs that they would normally have to pay for, or free service that they would normally have to pay for.


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## sigma1914

DodgerKing said:


> So do I, but I do not think that is what he meant. I interpreted his post as saying they get free iTunes APPs that they would normally have to pay for, or free service that they would normally have to pay for.


They like free apps that are like paid apps...I don't know if they're getting iTunes apps for free. I'm not an iUser so I'm not sure about it all.


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## dualsub2006

"ajiuO" said:


> Sounds a lot more complicated then IOS. When you say custom rom. I assume you mean that you are flashing the boot rom...


rooting and flashing a custom recovery is as easy as jailbreaking an iOS device. Flashing a new OS increases your effort a bit, but isn't complicated at all.

Backup apps will even run to restore all of your apps and settings for you.

Rooting, Roming and restoring the apps on my Thunderbolt took 30 minutes. I rooted my wife's Incredible and froze all of her crap apps in 5.


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## dualsub2006

"DodgerKing" said:


> So do I, but I do not think that is what he meant. I interpreted his post as saying they get free iTunes APPs that they would normally have to pay for, or free service that they would normally have to pay for.


Pirated apps isn't your intent with jailbreaking, but I know a number of people that do it for just that reason.


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## Scott Kocourek

So you jailbreak you iPad so you can get apps that you cannot get otherwise(or other reasons), you make a choice to do that knowing that there will then be apps that you cannot get.

It really sounds like you need to decide what is more important and be happy with that decision. Remember it's a choice you made.


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## DodgerKing

Scott Kocourek said:


> So you jailbreak you iPad so you can get apps that you cannot get otherwise(or other reasons), you make a choice to do that knowing that there will then be apps that you cannot get.
> 
> It really sounds like you need to decide what is more important and be happy with that decision. Remember it's a choice you made.


No one is denying it is a choice. No one is denying that DirecTV has the right to restrict the use of their APP. No one is denying that there are costs and benefits to JB and not JB.

What we are arguing is the reasons for DirecTV restricting their APP is based in ignorance and unfounded fear.

What we are arguing is that they are fighting a losing battle.

What we are arguing is that given all of this there is really no justified reason for them to restrict their APP, other than fear of something they know nothing about; or other than the fact that they can.

Think about it. Every argument on DirecTVs side of this has been one of the following:

1. It is their APP they can do so if they want
2. JB can steal their stream
3. JB do so in order to get free stuff


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## ajiuO

DodgerKing said:


> No one is denying it is a choice. No one is denying that DirecTV has the right to restrict the use of their APP. No one is denying that there are costs and benefits to JB and not JB.
> 
> What we are arguing is the reasons for DirecTV restricting their APP is based in ignorance and unfounded fear.
> 
> What we are arguing is that they are fighting a losing battle.
> 
> What we are arguing is that given all of this there is really no justified reason for them to restrict their APP, other than fear of something they know nothing about; or other than the fact that they can.
> 
> Think about it. Every argument on DirecTVs side of this has been one of the following:
> 
> 1. It is their APP they can do so if they want
> 2. JB can steal their stream
> 3. JB do so in order to get free stuff


The funniest thing about it is that directv isn't concentrating on protecting the actual streem.. Instead they are fighting it in a way that gives then no legal recourse... It's not ilegal to hide the fact that your device is jailbroken... They are waisting their time.... Encrypt... It's the only way to fly.


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## Stuart Sweet

DodgerKing said:


> No one is denying it is a choice. No one is denying that DirecTV has the right to restrict the use of their APP. No one is denying that there are costs and benefits to JB and not JB.
> 
> What we are arguing is the reasons for DirecTV restricting their APP is based in ignorance and unfounded fear.
> 
> What we are arguing is that they are fighting a losing battle.
> 
> What we are arguing is that given all of this there is really no justified reason for them to restrict their APP, other than fear of something they know nothing about; or other than the fact that they can.
> 
> Think about it. Every argument on DirecTVs side of this has been one of the following:
> 
> 1. It is their APP they can do so if they want
> 2. JB can steal their stream
> 3. JB do so in order to get free stuff


You make it seem like there is an official DIRECTV statement on this. If so, I'd like to see it.


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## Chris Blount

DodgerKing said:


> Think about it. Every argument on DirecTVs side of this has been one of the following:
> 
> 1. It is their APP they can do so if they want
> 2. JB can steal their stream
> 3. JB do so in order to get free stuff


Actually as I have stated earlier in this thread, these are the reasons: (NOTE: This is still not official from DirecTV. Just what I have been able to gather.)

1. The content on the app IS protected via DRM. 
2. This app isn't just one provider. DirecTV licenses the content from SEVERAL providers and they don't all have the same rules thus a lock must be placed on the entire app.
3. Just because the good people here at DBSTalk do not steal content doesn't mean other jail breakers are NOT doing it.


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## DodgerKing

Stuart Sweet said:


> You make it seem like there is an official DIRECTV statement on this. If so, I'd like to see it.


Arguments of those posters on this site on the DirecTVs side of the argument. Not the argument from DirecTV itself.


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## DodgerKing

Chris Blount said:


> Actually as I have stated earlier in this thread, these are the reasons: (NOTE: This is still not official from DirecTV. Just what I have been able to gather.)
> 
> 1. The content on the app IS protected via DRM.


JB is not relevant to this


> 2. This app isn't just one provider. DirecTV licenses the content from SEVERAL providers and they don't all have the same rules thus a lock must be placed on the entire app.


What is the relevance to JB?


> 3. Just because the good people here at DBSTalk do not steal content doesn't mean other jail breakers are NOT doing it.


Again, JB is not relevant. One does not need to JB in order to steal. Protecting against JB does absolutely nothing to protect theft of their stream. They are fighting the wrong battle and will lose ever single time.


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## gio12

Chris Blount said:


> Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.


Then your have ZERO idea what your talking about in this conversation. It know this is your site, but your comments don't belong in this thread, with a comment like that.

Do you even KNOW what jailbreaking is? Jailbreaking is NOTHING BUT adding Cydia app store to your phone, period. When you jailbreak your phone, CYDIA is installed. Then form there, you can access illegal sources that MIGHT contribute to piracy. If you install this source, Cydia WARNS you its illegal and does not recommend it and warns you its could have treats in it.

SSH your phone is a way into the file system. This can be down with apps SOLD through the official Apple App store. Once your device s jailbroken, then this official apps will allow you in the file system.

Sorry, but jail breaking is NOT about stealing apps or piracy. Its about an alternative App store, that makes the iPhone the bet smart phone, period. Without it, I would not use an iPhone or any iOS device.


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## gio12

Chris Blount said:


> Actually as I have stated earlier in this thread, these are the reasons: (NOTE: This is still not official from DirecTV. Just what I have been able to gather.)
> 
> 1. The content on the app IS protected via DRM.
> 2. This app isn't just one provider. DirecTV licenses the content from SEVERAL providers and they don't all have the same rules thus a lock must be placed on the entire app.
> 3. Just because the good people here at DBSTalk do not steal content doesn't mean other jail breakers are NOT doing it.


I have never heard on any app for downloading stream content form a IOS device from any jail breaking source.

maybe if DIRECTV was not fearful and actually UNDERSTOOD the JB process, who would not have this problem. Do a Google search. I searched many JB forum and cydia to see. Nothing.

This is a simple matter for DIRECTV:

Allow the app on all devices! Disable LIVE Stream on any JB device. Now everyone is happy. The cat and Mouse game is a losing game for directv and a waste of mine and resources. Apple can't stop it and you think D* will? :lol:


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## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> I have never heard on any app for downloading stream content form a IOS device from any jail breaking source.


It's not a single app that you use to rip the stream, it involves a couple of apps and capturing to a computer. Its a lot more work than I would want to go through to accomplish something that could more easily be done other ways, but it can be done.

I'm not posting links to what I read, but I'm sure you can find the info on your own if you want to.


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## gio12

dualsub2006 said:


> It's not a single app that you use to rip the stream, it involves a couple of apps and capturing to a computer. Its a lot more work than I would want to go through to accomplish something that could more easily be done other ways, but it can be done.
> 
> I'm not posting links to what I read, but I'm sure you can find the info on your own if you want to.


Ok, but I have ZERO desire. Never hared of anyone doing it and I tried Google with nothing.


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## Chris Blount

gio12 said:


> Then your have ZERO idea what your talking about in this conversation. It know this is your site, but your comments don't belong in this thread, with a comment like that.


Calm down buddy. It was just a question. Geesh!


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## dualsub2006

"gio12" said:


> Ok, but I have ZERO desire. Never hared of anyone doing it and I tried Google with nothing.


OK, but this isn't just about you and me. There ARE people who do it.


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## gio12

Chris Blount said:


> Calm down buddy. It was just a question. Geesh!


ok :nono2:.

But you did not state a question. What you stated is wrong and what your stated shows your ignorance when it comes to JB an iOS device.

But as the owner of this site and when we are are discussing JB and DIRECTV, I think you would be more cautious or informed before making a comment.

I know your thoughts don't reflect DIRECTVs views or other MODs here. But when I hear who you guys think, makes my wonder if DIRECTV really has a clue when it comes to this stuff too.


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## gio12

dualsub2006 said:


> OK, but this isn't just about you and me. There ARE people who do it.


Sure and I get that.


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## vantheman169

Hello seems like the last post of this thread was quite some time ago, but this is still a problem.

First time poster here, been reading through this thread and searching all over the web to try to DOWNGRADE my DirectTV app because of the same reason everyone else is on this forum. I have an iPhone and an iPad jailbroken on firmware 6.1 and of course DirectTV SUX and keeps forcing us to update to the latest version which does not work on jailbroken devices (which is dumb anyways and I dont understand why). 

My question is. Since there is a new tweak on CYDIA called Xcon Alias that will make older Direct TV app think that its already updated, where can I download the older version? I am not trying to PIRATE It so dont flame me for asking, and its a free app so this has nothing to do with pirating anything. All I want is the old app that way Xcon Alias can do its job. 

Any ideas? 

Thanks in advance.


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## cypherx

Xcon v38 beta 2 works with today's versions of DirecTV for iPad and iPhone on iOS 6.1.


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## slapshot1959

Unfortunately that tweak that makes Directv app work, but renders other apps that use any mapping useless. (i.e. Zillow, Weather channel app)

Not sure where to post to the developer on that, tried to tweet that to him, no response.


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## cypherx

slapshot1959 said:


> Unfortunately that tweak that makes Directv app work, but renders other apps that use any mapping useless. (i.e. Zillow, Weather channel app)
> 
> Not sure where to post to the developer on that, tried to tweet that to him, no response.


I don't know what the policy is on posting direct links, so I will PM you the forum on Github where the discussions are taking place.


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## slapshot1959

Got it, thanks!
Posted the issue there.


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## The Merg

vantheman169;3176404 said:


> Hello seems like the last post of this thread was quite some time ago, but this is still a problem.
> 
> First time poster here, been reading through this thread and searching all over the web to try to DOWNGRADE my DirectTV app because of the same reason everyone else is on this forum. I have an iPhone and an iPad jailbroken on firmware 6.1 and of course DirectTV SUX and keeps forcing us to update to the latest version which does not work on jailbroken devices (which is dumb anyways and I dont understand why).
> 
> My question is. Since there is a new tweak on CYDIA called Xcon Alias that will make older Direct TV app think that its already updated, where can I download the older version? I am not trying to PIRATE It so dont flame me for asking, and its a free app so this has nothing to do with pirating anything. All I want is the old app that way Xcon Alias can do its job.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


:welcome_s to DBSTalk!

DirecTV does not force you to update their app. Just like all other apps on iOS, you don't have to download an update if you don't want to.

- Merg


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## billcoff

slapshot1959 said:


> Unfortunately that tweak that makes Directv app work, but renders other apps that use any mapping useless. (i.e. Zillow, Weather channel app)
> 
> Not sure where to post to the developer on that, tried to tweet that to him, no response.


Including my Vulkano app


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## peds48

slapshot1959 said:


> Unfortunately that tweak that makes Directv app work, but renders other apps that use any mapping useless. (i.e. Zillow, Weather channel app)
> 
> Not sure where to post to the developer on that, tried to tweet that to him, no response.


FWIW, I am using the 38 Beta 2, and the weather app (TWC) and Facebook apps works fine for me.


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## gjlowe

As soon as I removed xCon, the Lego Harry Potter games started working again, so I know it is breaking other apps.


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## slapshot1959

A fix has been posted for xCon on Github, for anyone interested/needing it.


----------

