# OTA Antenna Channel Guide



## mjf150 (Jul 12, 2007)

We have a 722k DVR from Dish Network. According to Dish, local channels are not available at my location, despite the fact that both of the neighbors to the north and to south have locals. So, we relented and hooked up an OTA to the receiver, which allows us to view the locals. However, there is no information in the guide menu. It simply says, "Digital Service". Is there a way to make the program information show up in the guide? FYI: We live in the Lake Charles, LA area.


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## rcadss (May 12, 2011)

You have to subscribe to your locals for the guide to show up for OTA locals. Silly but true.


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## mjf150 (Jul 12, 2007)

OK, let me see if I understand this correctly: I need to subscribe to the local channels, that Dish Network customer service reps say I do not qualify for, in order to get the local channel program guide? Will they let me subscribe to the local channels, even though I am supposedly not eligible for them. Will I have to then pay for those channels even though they say I am not eligible for them?


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Every market in the CONUS is now carried on Dish. It may not be the market you want, but you should qualify for one market. 

Your Zip Code is how they determine what DMA you qualify for.

OTOH I recall a market that had spot beam issues (The Williamsport portion of the Wilkes Barre/Scranton DMA).


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Basically... if you want any EPG for OTA you have to subscribe to locals through Dish.

IF they do not carry locals for your DMA, then you can't subscribe to them... but I thought Dish had locals for all DMAs now... not necessarily all HD locals, but at least SD locals.

And if you subscribe to those locals, you will get at least some of the HD OTA channel EPG data.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Lake Charles, LA is carried in HD from 77 along with guide data for for several sub-channels.


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## mjf150 (Jul 12, 2007)

BobaBird said:


> Lake Charles, LA is carried in HD from 77 along with guide data for for several sub-channels.


??? 
Where do you find the guide data for the channels?
What is 77?

Yes, Dish does provide locals for nearly every DMA, including Lake Charles. However, they told us that it is a spot beam issue. They claim that is why the neighbors to the North and South of us have the locals and we do not.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Source: http://uplink.jameslong.name/locallist.html
77° is one of the slots in the Eastern Arc, the others are 61.5° and 72.7°. You need all 3 to get all your channels.
As for the claim, Dish doesn't have any donut-shaped spot beams.


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## HobbyTalk (Jul 14, 2007)

Lake Charles is shown as being on a ConUS beam.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/thelist/index.php?search=dnall&sub=true&market=Lake Charles, LA


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

mjf150 said:


> ???
> Where do you find the guide data for the channels?
> What is 77?
> 
> Yes, Dish does provide locals for nearly every DMA, including Lake Charles. However, they told us that it is a spot beam issue. They claim that is why the neighbors to the North and South of us have the locals and we do not.


You a second opinion. One of the DIRT team should be able to help you. You need an Eastern Arc dish which is where 77 is found. If you were given a western arc dish that is why you are not getting your locals.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

mjf150,

If you don't subscribe to locals provided by us, you will not get the EPG information on OTA local feeds. If you could provide your account information in a PM to me, I can see the options that are available to you. Thanks.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Since Dish does carry Lake Charles locals, if you subscribe to locals ( everyone is supposed to get them whether they want them or not) the guide data will be present for most of the OTA channels you receive.

It sounds like you got some erroneous information, you should be able to subscribe to LC locals.


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## dennispap (Feb 1, 2007)

Go online and see if you can add the locals, however your dish needs to be looking at the correct satellite. 77W


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## buntdp (Dec 2, 2004)

I live in and receive locals from Lake Charles, La. However dish does not carry FOX in my area and I do not get guide data for FOX 29. Just shows digital service.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

The alternative Fox channel that displays "Digital Service" is due to the fact Fox is not provided by us in your area. To get the guide information for alternative channel, the major network feed (Fox, in this case) must be provided by us. If you have further questions, please let me know. Thanks.



buntdp said:


> I live in and receive locals from Lake Charles, La. However dish does not carry FOX in my area and I do not get guide data for FOX 29. Just shows digital service.


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## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Always remember after you scan for your local over the air channels to do a"check switch" to repopulate your guide information.


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## buntdp (Dec 2, 2004)

Why is FOX not provided? Been waiting for almost a year. Directv is carrying FOX29 but not DISH. Thank goodness for competition.


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Carriage fees dispute.

Just the opposite situation here, Dish has the local FOX station but, last I heard, DirecTV does not.


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## EdJ (Jan 9, 2007)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> If you don't subscribe to locals provided by us, you will not get the EPG information on OTA local feeds.


I have the VIP222K receiver and the optional OTA module installed. I subscribe to the locals in this city. When I plug in the coax from the roof antenna into the OTA module, the EPG guide works fine for most of the antenna locals.

Now, the question..... I can get a higher gain outside antenna and aim it to another city to pick up their different local networks. Will the DISH EPG show guide information for those distant networks from the roof antenna along with the subscribed DISH locals?


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

Chances are it won't. Alternate local channel EPG information is provided along with the local information you receive from us. If these other channels (alternative) are not part of your local package, the EPG information won't be included. Please let me know if you have further questions. Thanks.



EdJ said:


> I have the VIP222K receiver and the optional OTA module installed. I subscribe to the locals in this city. When I plug in the coax from the roof antenna into the OTA module, the EPG guide works fine for most of the antenna locals.
> 
> Now, the question..... I can get a higher gain outside antenna and aim it to another city to pick up their different local networks. Will the DISH EPG show guide information for those distant networks from the roof antenna along with the subscribed DISH locals?


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

There are plenty of posts from users who do get EPG for OTA channels from other than their own market.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

As long as Dish carries those channels OR has the EPG data up linked, then you should have it for OTA even out of your market.


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## EdJ (Jan 9, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> As long as Dish carries those channels OR has the EPG data up linked, then you should have it for OTA even out of your market.


Thanks... I did not want to buy a better amplified antenna if I could not get the guide to the 'other' area locals. The other city is on DISH as a locals area, but is about 75 miles away. With a good antenna, I should be able to pick them up. After buying the OTA module, it did seem a little silly paying DISH for the locals in my area and getting the same channels off the roof antenna.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> Chances are it won't. Alternate local channel EPG information is provided along with the local information you receive from us. If these other channels (alternative) are not part of your local package, the EPG information won't be included. Please let me know if you have further questions. Thanks.


I can testify that you WILL get any out of market local station guide data if you successfully scan the distant stations into your DVR's OTA receiver (if Dish had the data , i.e. they carry that station to that other local market). I get the guide data for all the Youngstown locals, even though only one of them comes in 24/7. The data shows even when the signal is too weak to watch.

In the past I even had a Pittsburgh station in my EPG.

The only caveat regards virtual channel numbers. If a distant station has the same virtual channel number as a local station you will lose the OTA version of local station in your guide. To put it another way you can only have one ch 8-01. Once a different 8-01 is scanned in the older 8-01 goes away. This is true even if the actual RF frequencies are different.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

Michael P said:


> I can testify that you WILL get any out of market local station guide data if you successfully scan the distant stations into your DVR's OTA receiver (if Dish had the data , i.e. they carry that station to that other local market). I get the guide data for all the Youngstown locals, even though only one of them comes in 24/7. The data shows even when the signal is too weak to watch.


DirecTV could really use a lesson or two from DISH on how to properly manage OTA services.



Michael P said:


> The only caveat regards virtual channel numbers. If a distant station has the same virtual channel number as a local station you will lose the OTA version of local station in your guide. To put it another way you can only have one ch 8-01. Once a different 8-01 is scanned in the older 8-01 goes away. This is true even if the actual RF frequencies are different.


That is a quirk. Why not tie in the internal software what can show up in the guide to the station identifier info, not the virtual channel info?


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

tkrandall said:


> DirecTV could really use a lesson or two from DISH on how to properly manage OTA services.
> 
> That is a quirk. Why not tie in the internal software what can show up in the guide to the station identifier info, not the virtual channel info?


That "quirk" happens on CECB converters as well. What is needed is the option to display the actual RF frequency instead of the virtual channel number. That does happen automatically when a weak signal gets scanned in. In my virtual ch 8 scenario I actually had 8-1 from my local city and 8-2 from a different city in the guide (until I deleted the distant 8-2).


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## fudpucker (Jul 23, 2007)

So what happens if a local affiliate drops out of Dish? Our local Fox and CBS affiliate is in a contract dispute with Dish (details in another thread) and threatening to remove their permission for Dish to carry them. If that happens, will I now no longer be able to get the guide info for their OTA station?


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## Jim5506 (Jun 7, 2004)

Your guide for that station will say "digital service".


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## TheShepherd (Dec 26, 2009)

Yes for the channels carried by Dish in that area. I have Cheyenne locals and OTA pickup Denver and have channel guide for the Denver channels but not for some other Colorado channels that dish does not carry.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

Jim5506 said:


> Your guide for that station will say "digital service".


If there is a contract dispute you OTA guide data _may_ contain a plea to contact your local station. That's if they keep the station up with a barker slide/test card regarding the dispute.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

One more thing, it appears the out of market OTA channel must also be carried on one of the satellites you get, or else you don't get the guide.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

tampa8 said:


> One more thing, it appears the out of market OTA channel must also be carried on one of the satellites you get, or else you don't get the guide.


Not entirely true. If you happen to get some of my locals OTA from out of the market you will get the MeTV and THIS guide data, neither are carried on the satellite.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

Michael P said:


> Not entirely true. If you happen to get some of my locals OTA from out of the market you will get the MeTV and THIS guide data, neither are carried on the satellite.


On the contrary, I do not get EPG info for MeTV or THiS even though I get them OTA. :nono2:


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## Mike109 (Jun 28, 2010)

I get WCIU and all their subs - Utoo, MeTV, MeToo and ThisTV from OTA. The EPG has data for everything but ThisTV, which just lists Digital Service.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

"bnborg" said:


> On the contrary, I do not get EPG info for MeTV or THiS even though I get them OTA. :nono2:


Depends on your market and if Dish links them properly... That's why there are stickies at the top of this forum for reporting and mother for discussing specific EPG issues like this. Dish had asked for info, though they don't seem to be quick about following up these days for EPG problems.

I do have MeTV and THiS EPG data in my market.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

bnborg said:


> On the contrary, I do not get EPG info for MeTV or THiS even though I get them OTA. :nono2:


It depends on the specific station you are receiving. For example I get OOM guide data for all the Youngstown OH local stations. In addition to all the .01 channels, I also get .2 guide data for a CW, Fox and MyNetwork subchannels. I also get .2 PBS guide but the data is incorrectly listed as a duplicate of the .01 station. Ironically the OOM PBS station is a duplicate of one in my DMA where the same .02 channel has the correct data.

In my DMA I get Me TV, THIS, and several PBS subchannels in my EPG but not Antenna TV.

Dish needs to make a new years resolution to correct the guide data issues we report. Some of the subchannel nets are interesting and worthy of DVR recording. Unfortunately "digital service" does not make DVR recording a pleasant experience.


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## FTA Michael (Jul 21, 2002)

Today, I used Windows Media Center to set recordings for MeTV, and I was reminded of all this. I'm paying $10/month for the DVR, and Dish can't provide me with the listings that Microsoft gives me for nothing. Where's the smilie for a shaking fist? Darn you, Dish!


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

WUAB recently added Bounce, replacing THIS on 43.2, now THIS is 43.3. I used to get guide data for THIS on 43.2, I now get Bounce guide data on 43.2 and "digital service" for 43.3. I had to manually rename 43.3.

WUAB and WOIO are operated by Raycom. They seem to have a better relationship with Dish, as the last new sub-channel they added MeTV had guide data from day one (as was the case with THIS when it first appeared on 43.2).


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## jeffdb27 (Jul 13, 2007)

Stewart Vernon said:


> As long as Dish carries those channels *OR has the EPG data up linked,* then you should have it for OTA even out of your market.


We have a translator station where I am and until recently the guide info was fine. They changed something and now all I get is "Digital Service" I contacted DISH and they said if they don't carry a channel then the OTA guide info isn't available. (They don't carry the translator station, only the original one that I can't pick up OTA.) I really don't believe this, since I have read the people get a lot of sub-channels (not carried by DISH) and do have proper guide information for those.

Is there any hope for me? How do you know if the guide info is up linked?

Thanks, 
Jeff


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

You could search this forum and go back through through old uplink reports but that could get tedious... If your local has changed something recently then it could be true that they are not up linked to Dish or at least EPG data isn't.

Unfortunately it can be like pulling teeth to get straight answers.


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## jeffdb27 (Jul 13, 2007)

At first a couple of people were emailing me from the station and one from DISH was. Then all that went quiet. So I filled out a form on the tech support web page, and that's were they said if they don't carry the channel, then the guide info ins't available. So, it kind of went from where they were working with me on both ends and wanted to solve the problem, to tough luck, customer fairly quickly. And this guide info was there for YEARS. It is very frustrating to lose it and not be able to set timers, etc.

Jeff


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## jc8097654 (Mar 28, 2008)

I recently became a DISH customer and have a VIP722k with an OTA module to get HD. I subscribe to all of the local channels that Dish carries in SD. Unfortunately, the guide info is populating for all OTA channels except CBS 19 which is carried by Dish, any idea why it is only saying Digital Service? I am in the the Tyler, TX market.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

KYTX is provided by us so you should be getting the EPG information. Did it just begin displaying Digital Service or has it always shown this? Does it show the same information on channel 8881? Please let me know. Thanks.



jc8097654 said:


> I recently became a DISH customer and have a VIP722k with an OTA module to get HD. I subscribe to all of the local channels that Dish carries in SD. Unfortunately, the guide info is populating for all OTA channels except CBS 19 which is carried by Dish, any idea why it is only saying Digital Service? I am in the the Tyler, TX market.


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## jc8097654 (Mar 28, 2008)

Ray [email protected] Network said:


> KYTX is provided by us so you should be getting the EPG information. Did it just begin displaying Digital Service or has it always shown this? Does it show the same information on channel 8881? Please let me know. Thanks.


8881-KYTX is showing guide information and has been since my service began. 019-01 KYTX OTA channel has been showing digital service since it came online when I setup the OTA module last week. All of the other local OTA channels populated EPG information with no problem. Any help you can provide would be appreciated.


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## bnborg (Jun 3, 2005)

This subject frustrates and depresses me.

I have complained/reported my problems in this forum, to the stations, Dish Network, and TV Guide. All I ever get is a runaround. 

Yet I still have half of my OTA channels showing "Digital Service" or worse, completely wrong EPG info.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

Please provide your receiver number in a PM to me so I can submit a trouble report about you not getting the programming information for this channel. Thanks.



jc8097654 said:


> 8881-KYTX is showing guide information and has been since my service began. 019-01 KYTX OTA channel has been showing digital service since it came online when I setup the OTA module last week. All of the other local OTA channels populated EPG information with no problem. Any help you can provide would be appreciated.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

E* needs to have an OTA guide "Team" to sort this mess out. They also need to educate ALL their staff so the bogus comment "If we don't carry the channel on the satellite you will not get guide data" will no longer be uttered.

I can testify that:
A: You may get OOM OTA guide data
B: You may get subchannel guide data for networks not carried
C: What you get or don't get varies by DMA

A dedicated team could get this fixed. We are paying for DVR service so this issue should not get swept under the rug!


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## 79MI (Jan 23, 2004)

About 6 months ago I noticed the guide data was missing for my local NBC station (WEYI, OTA channel 25.1/25.2). Both channels now list programming as "digital service". Programming data had been available since they started broadcasting in digital, but disappeared for some reason. All other local stations have guide data, both SD and HD.

I've contacted the station regarding the issue, they assure me Dish is receiving the data from them, I've also confirmed they are broadcasting it by connecting my TV directly to the antenna. The SD feed from Dish also includes guide data. 

I've made multiple calls to Dish, and chatted with a supervisor regarding the issue. They opened a trouble ticket about 2 months ago, but I haven't heard anything back.

Should I eliminate the OTA antenna, and have a 3rd dish installed to receive HD locals? I'm worried I may lose my locals during inclement weather, not to mention the potential drop in picture quality. All of my OTA locals have 85-100% reception.

It's strange that there are so many people dealing with this issue, seems it would've been more prevalent back when digital broadcasts were first coming online (which it wasn't).

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## garys (Nov 4, 2005)

Dish doesn't use the guide info from the Networks, they use an outside contractor for it. The problem would be either from the contractor or Dish and not from your local network. You are paying for the HD locals, Dish may install the dish for you at hardly any charge. I have both OTA and Dish supplied HD locals to back each other up. Sometimes I loose Dish and sometimes OTA goes out for me due to the distance to the towers.


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## Michael P (Oct 27, 2004)

79MI said:


> About 6 months ago I noticed the guide data was missing for my local NBC station (WEYI, OTA channel 25.1/25.2). Both channels now list programming as "digital service". Programming data had been available since they started broadcasting in digital, but disappeared for some reason. All other local stations have guide data, both SD and HD.
> 
> I've contacted the station regarding the issue, they assure me Dish is receiving the data from them, I've also confirmed they are broadcasting it by connecting my TV directly to the antenna. The SD feed from Dish also includes guide data.
> 
> ...


Are you getting this channel in SD over the satellite? If so the problem may be with a change made by the station to their OTA signal's PSIP data stream. while Dish receivers do not use PSIP for guide data, it does use a part of it for channel identification.

Have you tried deleting the OTA channel from your DVR and then rescanning it back into the guide? If not try it and then do a check switch to force a new download of the EPG. You may be pleasantly surprised.


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## 79MI (Jan 23, 2004)

Michael P said:


> Are you getting this channel in SD over the satellite? If so the problem may be with a change made by the station to their OTA signal's PSIP data stream. while Dish receivers do not use PSIP for guide data, it does use a part of it for channel identification.
> 
> Have you tried deleting the OTA channel from your DVR and then rescanning it back into the guide? If not try it and then do a check switch to force a new download of the EPG. You may be pleasantly surprised.


I am receiving the SD channel over the satellite. I also asked the station director about any changes a while back, he said nothing has been changed, and that Dish should be receiving their OTA guide data. Now that I know the terminology, I may bring it up again.

As for deleting the channel, I cleared all OTA channels twice, have also run a check-switch...and replaced my receiver due to the inevitable "622 reset cycle" issue. Still says "digital service" for the OTA channels from that station... Bummer.

Thanks for your response, much appreciated.


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## Ray [email protected] Network (Dec 28, 2010)

Please provide your receiver number to me in a PM, along with the channel information, and I will send the information to our programming department to check into this for you. Thanks.



79MI said:


> I am receiving the SD channel over the satellite. I also asked the station director about any changes a while back, he said nothing has been changed, and that Dish should be receiving their OTA guide data. Now that I know the terminology, I may bring it up again.
> 
> As for deleting the channel, I cleared all OTA channels twice, have also run a check-switch...and replaced my receiver due to the inevitable "622 reset cycle" issue. Still says "digital service" for the OTA channels from that station... Bummer.
> 
> Thanks for your response, much appreciated.


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