# Phone Line and Programming Access Fee



## MikeHou (Oct 18, 2006)

Before the ViP622, I had a 510 DVR. Phone service is Vonage, and nothing has changed regarding that since I had the 510. E* is hitting me with the dreaded PAF of $5.00 each month. I've been calling them each month and they remove it, but it shows up again the next month.

I'm having trouble understanding why this would work under 510 but not with the 622. Is there something different about the components used for the phone on the 622? 

I went thru a round of tests per the semi-helpful CSR, and everything tested out fine. I wasn't asked to do this, but I did select the Dial Out function to see what happened... it progressed to where it said Connecting, then failed after that. I'm assuming it's unable to call the mothership each night and thus I get hit with the fee. (BTW, I did verify the phone line is live). 

I've adjusted my Vonage bandwidth (before the last testing I did) so that I'm full bandwidth, but still the same results. Interestingly enough, I was on the lowest bandwidth with the 510 and never had a problem. 

Is it as simple as using a DSL filter?


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MikeHou said:


> E* is hitting me with the dreaded PAF of $5.00 each month. I've been calling them each month and they remove it, but it shows up again the next month.
> 
> I'm having trouble understanding why this would work under 510 but not with the 622. Is there something different about the components used for the phone on the 622?


The 5xx receivers aren't subject to the additional tuner fee; after all, they have only one tuner. Chances are that your 5xx receiver wasn't getting through either.

You're solution is probably going to have to come from Vonage as that is likely where your failure is coming from. I should note that I recently had some troubles with calling a particular number from my SunRocket phone and it turned out that my sister's phone company (AT&T/PacBell) was blocking my number at some level.

You may need to tinker with some parameters in your SIP adapter or rearrange your cabling to insure better transmission quality.

As for the DSL filter, that doesn't come into play if you don't have POTS phone service. You might want to plug in a filter and a phone and see if there is any noise on the line.


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## huntrm (Oct 25, 2006)

MikeHou said:


> Before the ViP622, I had a 510 DVR. Phone service is Vonage, and nothing has changed regarding that since I had the 510. E* is hitting me with the dreaded PAF of $5.00 each month. I've been calling them each month and they remove it, but it shows up again the next month.
> 
> I'm having trouble understanding why this would work under 510 but not with the 622. Is there something different about the components used for the phone on the 622?
> 
> ...


I'm assumnig you have *99 prefix configured to dial-out for Vonage? Works perfectly for me with Vonage on lowest bandwidth setting (never tested other settings) and having congiured *99 (622 DVR).


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## MikeHou (Oct 18, 2006)

harsh said:


> The 5xx receivers aren't subject to the additional tuner fee; after all, they have only one tuner. Chances are that your 5xx receiver wasn't getting through either.


It was taking orders for PPV with no problem; that uses the phone line, no?



harsh said:


> You're solution is probably going to have to come from Vonage as that is likely where your failure is coming from. I should note that I recently had some troubles with calling a particular number from my SunRocket phone and it turned out that my sister's phone company (AT&T/PacBell) was blocking my number at some level.


Since I ordered PPV with the 510 to the same number, I'm assuming it's not a blocking issue. I will investigate further with Vonage though.



harsh said:


> You may need to tinker with some parameters in your SIP adapter or rearrange your cabling to insure better transmission quality.


 Suggestion noted, but I think I'll hold off on rearranging anything for now.

Thx


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MikeHou said:


> It was taking orders for PPV with no problem; that uses the phone line, no?


It _may_ queue up a small number of PPVs without being able to dial out. If you ordered ten or more PPV using the remote control, then it was probably successful registering them. If you only ordered three or less, it may be waiting to transmit.


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## MikeHou (Oct 18, 2006)

huntrm said:


> I'm assumnig you have *99 prefix configured to dial-out for Vonage? Works perfectly for me with Vonage on lowest bandwidth setting (never tested other settings) and having congiured *99 (622 DVR).


 Since I jacked the bandwidth up to max, I didn't think *99 would have any impact. Suppose I could try it anyway.

I'm curious; could you tell me how long the connection is when it dials out? I see 3 or 4 calls made within 2 minutes of each other for a duration of 00:01:00, which I assume to be the minimum it will register.


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## MikeHou (Oct 18, 2006)

harsh said:


> It _may_ queue up a small number of PPVs without being able to dial out. If you ordered ten or more PPV using the remote control, then it was probably successful registering them. If you only ordered three or less, it may be waiting to transmit.


We never ordered more than 3 in a month; usually don't get PPV, so when we do it's notable. They never missed billing me for it.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

MikeHou said:


> We never ordered more than 3 in a month; usually don't get PPV, so when we do it's notable. They never missed billing me for it.


The billing is the key. Obviously the calls from the 510 were getting through. Have you had Vonage all along or is it a new development?


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## mdewitt (Sep 21, 2006)

I used to have a 625 and I now have a 622 and mine seems to be dialing out just fine with Vonage and I do not do the *99. 

I believe you can tell the last time your receiver connected by going into the menu, then system setup, then diagnostics. Choose counters and then find last connection date. This is all from memory so someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## MikeHou (Oct 18, 2006)

Okay, found last connect date of 10/28 on the Installation menu, so I guess it's getting thru at least occasionally. Guess I'll wait for the next bill and see what it says.

Thanks all.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

Another way to test the modem is to go to DishHome and access your account. It has to dial in to get your bill.


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## huntrm (Oct 25, 2006)

MikeHou said:


> Since I jacked the bandwidth up to max, I didn't think *99 would have any impact. Suppose I could try it anyway.
> 
> I'm curious; could you tell me how long the connection is when it dials out? I see 3 or 4 calls made within 2 minutes of each other for a duration of 00:01:00, which I assume to be the minimum it will register.


Seems to be very short (30-45 sec) - definitely under a minute.


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## Flasshe (Aug 17, 2004)

I also got billed every month for the PAF even though my phone line was hooked up and apparently working (caller id works, and you can definitely hear the 622 trying to connect through the phone line when I do a test dial). The last CSR I talked to said that it sounded like a problem with the modem in the 622, but neither of us was real hot on exchanging the unit. So they agreed to take off the fee for the length of my lease and I haven't been charged for it since. I can't order PPV over the phone line, but I never order PPV anyway, so that doesn't bother me. If you keep having trouble, you might want to try to talk them into removing the fee permanently like I did.


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## tedb3rd (Feb 2, 2006)

2 Questions:
-I know the receiver dials at 'regular' intervals to verify, upload PPVs, etc. Is there a way to 'force' it to dial in. (...Like some of the old systems you would power on/off 3 times or something like that.)
-Does DN use CallerID to verify where the receiver is calling from? I want to drop local phone service. ...live close enough to the neighbors to run a phone cable and allow the receiver to dial-in once/month. But I figured DN would go ape-you-know-what if it popped up as dialing from a different location. (...no, voIP is not an option for us--no DSL, no cable at least through 2008. WildBlue is what I'm looking at in the near future but understand voIP doen't work well with satellite internet)


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If the receiver needs to dial in you can force it from the Diagnostics screen.
But if it isn't at a point where it needs to dial in it will just say "no dialout pending".


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## xasx (Mar 19, 2006)

Dish Network claimed I needed the phone hookup for the DVR and PPV had nothing to do with it, from what I have been reading this sounds false and it should be the other way around. I don't order PPV and have been trying to get SunRocket to work with it before I switch my number, do I even need the phone line if I don't order PPV? Has anyone had any luck using a Wireless Phone Jack? Seems like they have too much static for modem use. Has anyone implemented anything else to hook up their receivers at long distances when using VOIP?


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## bderouen (Oct 27, 2006)

Hi Xasx!
I agree that it is very unclear as to why they insist on the phone line for the 622s. And you CAN do without it, but they charge you an additional $5 a month if you don't have it hooked up. I know when i was with DTV, they SAID you must have a phone line hooked up, but I never bothered and I was never charged anythying. I jsut couldn't order PPV with the remote, but I didn't do that anyway. The once in a whie that I did order PPV, I did it over the internet from their website!

As far as the Wireless Phone jack, I am using one right now and it is works great! I have Vonage and at the advice of one of the members here, I bought a wireless phone jack. (Go on Ebay and get one...MUCH cheaper! That's what i did!) I have my main jack hooked into the outlet near my broadband connection and my Vonage DTA. I have the line from the DTA run to the jack, and then a line from the jack to my VTech cordless phone system in my house. Then behind my receiver,I plugged in the extension for the wireless jack and run a line from the receiver to the jack. It works great! 

And sicne I only paid about $30 for the wireless phone jack on Ebay (as opposed to almost $100 in Radioshack), I figure in about 6 months (saving that $5 a month) it'll pay for itself.


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## xasx (Mar 19, 2006)

Update:
I actually have RCA Wireless Phone Jacks, I just figured out half hour ago that they work when connected to Verizon land line to connect to Dish, but not when connected to Sunrocket. I have moved them around and now get almost no static, but since it worked with Verizon, I guess it may be a problem with Sunrocket and the Linksys Gizmo.


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## bderouen (Oct 27, 2006)

Yeah, if you have a regular land line, then that may be a better option. I'd say that the static may be a problem with SunRocket. I have a LInksys router, if that's what you're talkng about, and it's not a problem at all. My Vonage DTA (digital phone adapter) is connected to my router, of course, but then the line from the DTA goes as described above.

Hey...as long as it work, then you're set!!


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## xasx (Mar 19, 2006)

I'll have to keep on working on this since I want to get rid of Verizon. I also realized I can't do inside wiring since I have DSL and probably would need those lines outside my house connected. I thought about switching to Cable Internet, but they would charge my another 14 a month plus the fine for not having cable.


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## bderouen (Oct 27, 2006)

Just curious..."fine for not having cable"??? Whatcha mean? Verizon would charge you more for not having cable? Why would they do that? I know this is a little off the point of this thread, but you've raised my curiosity.


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## xasx (Mar 19, 2006)

Sorry, I was not clear with my statement. If you do not have service from Comcast they charge 58 a month instead of 43 for just Internet and after reading Verizon's terms it seems like you have to have some type of phone service to keep DSL also. I have satellite TV and I am going to ask Verizon if I can just keep the Message service which allows 20 calls a month for 5 dollars.


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## huntrm (Oct 25, 2006)

So in my case with my Vonage modem and my 622, it was my impression that this was working. Under system setup, it was detecting dial-tone and indicated it could connect. I even have *99 configured on the DVR, and running at 90kbps w/ Vonage.

However, out of curiosity, I wanted to view my statement and like some people on this post, it can't connect. Makes me think I'm going to pay a $5.99/month from here on out. I'm using the wireless adapters, and in listening on the line, the DVR is connecting for an instance, but then they never fully complete the necessary handshake.

Any ideas/suggestions on this?? frustrating....

My setup:
- splitter on line 1 of Motorola Vonage modem - one for home phone, one for wireless adapter for DVR
- Comcast service
- high banfdwidth setting on Vonage
- setup of *99 on DVR for dialing out


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## bderouen (Oct 27, 2006)

huntrm said:


> So in my case with my Vonage modem and my 622, it was my impression that this was working. Under system setup, it was detecting dial-tone and indicated it could connect. I even have *99 configured on the DVR, and running at 90kbps w/ Vonage.
> 
> However, out of curiosity, I wanted to view my statement and like some people on this post, it can't connect. Makes me think I'm going to pay a $5.99/month from here on out. I'm using the wireless adapters, and in listening on the line, the DVR is connecting for an instance, but then they never fully complete the necessary handshake.
> 
> ...


The only thing I can MAYBE see is how you have it set up coming from your vonage box to the adapter. I don't have a splitter at all. I come from the vonage box to the adapter, and then from the adapter to my home phone system base.

Now, after I typed that paragraph, I went to try my connection and I can't connect either. But once I had the adapters connected, I tried the connection as you said, and it worked. I then called tech support and asked if they needed to mark something for my $5 to be removed from my account. 3 different people assured me it wasn't necessary, that when I run the line test, their system shows that a phone is connected and it would remove the $5 charge!

so I'm watching to see if it happens. If I do get stuck for the $5, someone's gonna get an earful! :eek2:


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## iamcanadian2222 (Dec 19, 2006)

xasx said:


> Sorry, I was not clear with my statement. If you do not have service from Comcast they charge 58 a month instead of 43 for just Internet and after reading Verizon's terms it seems like you have to have some type of phone service to keep DSL also. I have satellite TV and I am going to ask Verizon if I can just keep the Message service which allows 20 calls a month for 5 dollars.


I recently signed up for a phone service similar to the one you mentioned (25 call limit @ $7 /mo) and signed up for service with Dish. That brings up the question:

How many calls does the 622 make?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

iamcanadian2222 said:


> How many calls does the 622 make?


That depends on your usage. If you don't order PPV you may get a call a month (budget for two). If you use PPV expect a call the day after each order session. (Not one call per order). If you use the on screen customer support application you are also making calls.


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