# New ViP 622: Very Impressed: Setup Questions



## munchcolo (Dec 19, 2005)

I've been a Dish subscriber for almost one year (AT120, 625 receiver). With the new season of 24 starting in January and the Broncos about to be in the playoffs (likely), I couldn't wait any longer. They installed the 622 this morning, and I have to say that I'm quite pleased. HD channels are great, and SD channels are about the same as with the 625, no better or worse. We got the HD Gold, which is a good package for my wife and me.

The 622 is playing through a surround receiver Denon AVR-1705 (component video and digital optical audio from the 622 to the Denon), and a 50" rear projection Sony KDF-E50A10 (component video to the Sony). Couple of questions:

(1) My Sony accepts 1080i and 720p, but the native resolution is 720p. I plan on experimenting with both, but do you recommend setting the 622 to 1080i or 720p? Any advantage one way or the other?

(2) Any of you have the Denon AVR-1705 or a similar receiver? I'm a little confused about which settings to use on the Denon for optimal audio. According to the spec sheet, the Denon supports: (a) DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 and Matrix 6.1, (b) DTS NEO:6, (c) Dolby Digital EX, and (d) Dolby Pro Logic IIx. Also, it has several DSP surround modes. Any recommendations for settings?


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## lujan (Feb 10, 2004)

I have read numerous times that it's best to set the component to whatever the native resolution of the TV is. In my case, my DLP set is 720p native so I set the 622 to 720p. I do notice a slight improvement in picture quality using 720p especially when the station is broadcasting in 720p. This way also, the TV doesn't have to do any conversions.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Generally speaking it is better to set the output to the highest available native resolution of your TV set. Some CRT models have native modes for more than one resolution... but LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc. generally are 720p or newer ones are 1080i/p native... so usually best to pick that.

But... since it only takes a little bit to try, it's always a good idea to check out multiple resolutions in case one looks better than the other unexpectedly. In the end it is whatever looks best to your eyes.


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## Mojito05 (Dec 8, 2006)

munchcolo said:


> (1) My Sony accepts 1080i and 720p, but the native resolution is 720p. I plan on experimenting with both, but do you recommend setting the 622 to 1080i or 720p? Any advantage one way or the other?


This is probably a dumb question, but it's something I've been wondering about - how do you determine what the native resolution of your TV is? I have a 51" rear projection Sony KP-51WS500 and below is all I was able to find in the manual:

"This projection TV is capable of receiving the 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i digital TV formats.

This projection TV is not capable of displaying a native 720p format signal. When a 720p format signal is received, it is converted into a 480p format signal."

After reading that, I still wasn't sure what the answer was.

Also, I thought the 2nd paragraph regarding the conversion of 720p formats to 480p was interesting. So does that mean HD stations like ABC, Fox, and ESPN (which are all in 720p, correct?) are converted to 480p? If that is correct, shouldn't I be seeing a relatively crappy picture? I'm not, so I was just curious if I understood things correctly.


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## grooves12 (Oct 27, 2005)

Mojito05 said:


> This is probably a dumb question, but it's something I've been wondering about - how do you determine what the native resolution of your TV is? I have a 51" rear projection Sony KP-51WS500 and below is all I was able to find in the manual:
> 
> "This projection TV is capable of receiving the 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i digital TV formats.
> 
> ...


Your TV is a 1080i television, and like many CRT rear projection TV's is not capable of 720p output. Just 480i/p or 1080i. So, obviously it is best to set your box to 1080i


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

Fixed panel digital displays are easy to tell the native resolution but CTR's are tougher because they don't have a true native resolution. It probably has 6" to 7" guns which would mean that 1080 lines would have overlap and 720 wouldn't. Even with overlap 1080 may or may not look better. You will have to try both and decide.

As far as what setting you need for surround sound. How many speakers are in your setup? You need either 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 speaker setup to take full advantage of surround sound.

Broadcast and satellite don't use DTS. Only very very rarely (if ever) will a film be encoded in DD-EX (matrix). Pro Logic IIx is for taking a stereo signal and making a faux 5.1 surround sound signal. It also has a least 2 settings: Music and Dialog.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

William said:


> ...
> Broadcast and satellite don't use DTS. Only very very rarely (if ever) will a film be encoded in DD-EX (matrix). Pro Logic IIx is for taking a stereo signal and making a faux 5.1 surround sound signal. It also has a least 2 settings: Music and Dialog.


DD-ex is not matrix, but a way to go to 6.1 and 7.1. Original dd only went to 5.1 It is occasionally broadcast because it is compatible with 5.1 DD.

Pro logic IIx is imporved version of the playing back Dolby Surround matrix, not a faux 5.1 surround, but because the channels are not totally seperate but matrixed together it is inferior to DD. Many slightly older movies were released using it. Although often changed to DD now if the original audio sound tracks are available, some pictures will still be broadcast with this form of Dolby Surround.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

tnsprin said:


> DD-ex is not matrix, but a way to go to 6.1 and 7.1. Original dd only went to 5.1 It is occasionally broadcast because it is compatible with 5.1 DD.
> 
> Pro logic IIx is imporved version of the playing back Dolby Surround matrix, not a faux 5.1 surround, but because the channels are not totally seperate but matrixed together it is inferior to DD. Many slightly older movies were released using it. Although often changed to DD now if the original audio sound tracks are available, some pictures will still be broadcast with this form of Dolby Surround.


Looks like someone needs to do some reading.

DD-EX is a 6.1 system only (only 1 extra channel that can be sent to two speakers) that works in a standard 5.1 stream. The rear channel is matrixed into the surrounds and is NOT a discrete channel like DTS-ES Discrete.

Pro Logic II can also take 2 channel (stereo) sound and make a faux 5.1 (or 6.1) surround sound.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

> (2) Any of you have the Denon AVR-1705 or a similar receiver? I'm a little confused about which settings to use on the Denon for optimal audio. According to the spec sheet, the Denon supports: (a) DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 and Matrix 6.1, (b) DTS NEO:6, (c) Dolby Digital EX, and (d) Dolby Pro Logic IIx. Also, it has several DSP surround modes. Any recommendations for settings?


Just push the 5 channel sterio button and let it do it's thing automatically.

Make sure your Optical is mapped to your source. Just to verify it's working unplug the analog audio.


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## SaltiDawg (Aug 30, 2004)

grooves12 said:


> Your TV is a 1080i television, and like many CRT rear projection TV's is not capable of 720p output. Just 480i/p or 1080i. So, obviously it is best to set your box to 1080i


Not sure what you mean "not capable of 720p *output.*" However, the set is certainly capable of reciving a 720p *input* and converting it to 1080i, its native resolution.  As others have suggested, it would be worth while trying both outputs from the 622.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

ssmith10pn said:


> Just push the 5 channel sterio button and let it do it's thing automatically...


If you set to 5 channel stereo this will miss up all 5.1 channel sources. It takes only the L&R channels and feeds L to L rear and R to R rear and mixes for the center. On a 5.1 source you will lose the original center and surrounds.

Edit: Just checked and it doesn't eliminate the center and rears in a 5.1 channel source. It takes the center and mixes into all 5 channels and the L mains and L rears are mixed together (same for the R's) and the center gets a mix of all. Still a very bad choice for a 5.1 source.

You should set to Dolby Digital for 5.1 sources and you can use Pro Logic II for 2 channel sources to create a faux 5.1 sound.


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## munchcolo (Dec 19, 2005)

William said:


> You should set to Dolby Digital for 5.1 sources and you can use Pro Logic II for 2 channel sources to create a faux 5.1 sound.


Thanks, I'll try that.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

William said:


> If you set to 5 channel stereo this will miss up all 5.1 channel sources. It takes only the L&R channels and feeds L to L rear and R to R rear and mixes for the center. On a 5.1 source you will lose the original center and surrounds.
> 
> Edit: Just checked and it doesn't eliminate the center and rears in a 5.1 channel source. It takes the center and mixes into all 5 channels and the L mains and L rears are mixed together (same for the R's) and the center gets a mix of all. Still a very bad choice for a 5.1 source.
> 
> You should set to Dolby Digital for 5.1 sources and you can use Pro Logic II for 2 channel sources to create a faux 5.1 sound.


My Bad,
It's a 1705, I was thinking 1906.

In setup set Auto Surround Mode to ON.

GO to page 35 of your manual.
On the remote toggle the input mode button to Auto.


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## DFDureiko (Feb 20, 2006)

I am trying to help a non techie freind( I'm not really a techie but at least I try to read this forum and learn and understand, my friend would not do that)
He just got a 622, lives in Waterbury CT, has no local Sat HD channels available on DISH. He did not even know about the HD tuner. I pluged in a 50dollar RS antenna, put it in the attic, and poof, all the locals in HD except theCW. 
I'm trying very hard to understand the 622 as I'm mainly familer with the HR10 and HR20 from D*TV. is there only ONE OTH HD tuner? Can her record on all three tuners while watching something recorded?
I'm also confused with the TV1/TV2 thing.......he has it set up that way, TV1 being upstairs in the Den with the 622 and being a 40in Sony Bravia HD, and TV2 being downstairs in the LR with a 32in Sony XBR SD tube.
I must also say the picture on his sony does not look as good as my 37in Olivia (Sony: 2800.00 - Olivea 799.00) and the sony IS running off the HDMI cable.
Thanks
Dan
[email protected]
any advice would be appreciated, or a point to the right place in this forum.


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes there is only one OTA tuner in the 622. 

Yes, if you have OTA you can record 3 streams at once. Two for Dish Sat and one from OTA while watching a recorded show. 

I suggest taking a look at the Tips and tricks sticky for the 622. Might provide some insight.. ALso the reviews.

As to the TV1/TV2 thing.. Well.. Hopefully someone will pipe in.. LIttle short one time and dual mode can be a little tricky. There is a sticky on what record plus does and that might provide some clues.


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## lakebum431 (Jun 30, 2005)

DFDureiko said:


> I am trying to help a non techie freind( I'm not really a techie but at least I try to read this forum and learn and understand, my friend would not do that)
> He just got a 622, lives in Waterbury CT, has no local Sat HD channels available on DISH. He did not even know about the HD tuner. I pluged in a 50dollar RS antenna, put it in the attic, and poof, all the locals in HD except theCW.
> I'm trying very hard to understand the 622 as I'm mainly familer with the HR10 and HR20 from D*TV. is there only ONE OTH HD tuner? Can her record on all three tuners while watching something recorded?
> I'm also confused with the TV1/TV2 thing.......he has it set up that way, TV1 being upstairs in the Den with the 622 and being a 40in Sony Bravia HD, and TV2 being downstairs in the LR with a 32in Sony XBR SD tube.
> ...


Please try all of the FAQ's at the top of the forums.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

William said:


> Looks like someone needs to do some reading.
> 
> DD-EX is a 6.1 system only (only 1 extra channel that can be sent to two speakers) that works in a standard 5.1 stream. The rear channel is matrixed into the surrounds and is NOT a discrete channel like DTS-ES Discrete.
> 
> Pro Logic II can also take 2 channel (stereo) sound and make a faux 5.1 (or 6.1) surround sound.


Althought dolby Pro logic can make a faux surround sound, it will also take and the older analog Dolby Surround and more accurately place the sound than older Dolby circuits. There have been many generations of Pro logic with the latest being Pro Logic IIx.

Its arguable how discrete the 6.1 (or 7.1) of Dolby Digital EX is, but it is claimed to be able to seperate a seperate rear channel. Up until recent announcements, including TrueHD, it was Dolby's top of the line encoding system.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

tnsprin said:


> ...Its arguable how discrete the 6.1 (or 7.1) of Dolby Digital EX is, but it is claimed to be able to seperate a seperate rear channel. Up until recent announcements, including TrueHD, it was Dolby's top of the line encoding system.


It is not arguable because it is a 100% absolute fact that EX *is not discrete* by any stretched or imagined definition . Discrete means it must have it's own separate and discrete channel and DD-EX dosn't. DD-EX's 7th channel is matrixed into the rear surrounds so the DD-EX signal has only 6 (5.1) discrete channels just like regular DD (and 100% backwards compatable). The rear channel is extracted in the same manor as the original Dolby Pro Logic surround sound and has the same limited separation, dynamic range, and frequency response characteristics.

Even Dolby says that DD5.1 is "The sound information contained in each of the six (5.1) available channels is distinct and independent" and calls DD-EX "5.1-channel setup one step further with an additional center surround channel".

While Pro Logic II works well with Dolby Surround tracks it was primarily invented to take 2 channel sound and create a faux 5.1 sound field.


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## Harvick (Dec 31, 2006)

munchcolo said:


> (2) Any of you have the Denon AVR-1705 or a similar receiver? I'm a little confused about which settings to use on the Denon for optimal audio. According to the spec sheet, the Denon supports: (a) DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 and Matrix 6.1, (b) DTS NEO:6, (c) Dolby Digital EX, and (d) Dolby Pro Logic IIx. Also, it has several DSP surround modes. Any recommendations for settings?


I've found that setting my Denon 587 to auto mode seem to work quite well. Just let the receiver call the shots.


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## ssmith10pn (Jul 6, 2005)

Harvick said:


> I've found that setting my Denon 587 to auto mode seem to work quite well. Just let the receiver call the shots.


Exactly!


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

William said:


> It is not arguable because it is a 100% absolute fact that EX *is not discrete* by any stretched or imagined definition . Discrete means it must have it's own separate and discrete channel and DD-EX dosn't. DD-EX's 7th channel is matrixed into the rear surrounds so the DD-EX signal has only 6 (5.1) discrete channels just like regular DD (and 100% backwards compatable). The rear channel is extracted in the same manor as the original Dolby Pro Logic surround sound and has the same limited separation, dynamic range, and frequency response characteristics.
> 
> Even Dolby says that DD5.1 is "The sound information contained in each of the six (5.1) available channels is distinct and independent" and calls DD-EX "5.1-channel setup one step further with an additional center surround channel".
> 
> While Pro Logic II works well with Dolby Surround tracks it was primarily invented to take 2 channel sound and create a faux 5.1 sound field.


I keep clearly say Dolby Pro logic not dolby pro logic II or IIX. It was invented to try and to accurately produce the original Dolby Surround. Later version ii and IIX obviously added ability to go to 5.1 and 7.1 and since the information is not in the original Surround mix it is clearly faking the additional info. They also started emphesising that they could take stereo signals and introduce Surround like sound.

Now of course they are pushing Dolby TRUEHD, even though there are almost no receiver that can handle it, most counting on the source player (hd-dvd or bllu-ray(optional) to handle).

As far as the ViP 622, it can deliver the optical coded Digital dolby to your receiver which means it can deliver 5.1 and appears to be able to also deliver the Dolby Digital EX.


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## William (Oct 28, 2006)

tnsprin said:


> I keep clearly say Dolby Pro logic not dolby pro logic II or IIX. It was invented to try and to accurately produce the original Dolby Surround. Later version ii and IIX obviously added ability to go to 5.1 and 7.1 and since the information is not in the original Surround mix it is clearly faking the additional info. They also started emphesising that they could take stereo signals and introduce Surround like sound.
> 
> Now of course they are pushing Dolby TRUEHD, even though there are almost no receiver that can handle it, most counting on the source player (hd-dvd or bllu-ray(optional) to handle).
> 
> As far as the ViP 622, it can deliver the optical coded Digital dolby to your receiver which means it can deliver 5.1 and appears to be able to also deliver the Dolby Digital EX.


Dolby can be confusing with their nomenclature. Here is a brief (hopefully at least semi accurate) history of Dolby consumer *(not theater)*.

Dolby Surround sound was the first with a rear channel matrixed. Then Pro Logic added a center channel matrix and was/is the standard analog/matrix system. Next up was a digital system and Dolby tried 2 before deciding on AC-3 (renamed to Dolby Digital). Dolby then decided to use its "old" matrix technologies to shoehorn an extra rear channel into DD and be 100% compatible (622 included) with all current DD setups (just the way Pro Logic is compatible with all 2 Ch. setups). This matrixed rear channel version of DD is called DD-EX.

Next Dolby had to come up with a product to compete with Lexicon's excellent Logic 7 that took 2 channel and created a realistic 5.1 to 7.1 channel sound field. Dolby came up with a new codec and to the dismay of many named it Pro Logic II instead of coming up with a new name. While using a familiar and trussed name this can cause confusion because the original Pro Logic and Pro Logic II have nothing in common other than the name and Pro Logic II's ability to decode Pro Logic.

Now Dolby has released two new codecs DD plus (DD+) and TrueHD.

DD+ has regular DD as a "core" and adds on top of it. It can go from 640kbps (DD limit) to 3Mbps and have up to 7.1 discrete channels. DD+ could be used in the satellite industry for improved SQ and/or extra discrete channels. It is also backwards compatible because all current systems would read the standard DD "core" embedded in DD+. I would love to see this system added to some E* channels and the 622 updated to handle. Of course you would need a receiver with HDMI audio input to handle it. SPDIF would be "core" only.

TrueHD is a lossless compression scheme ( much like a zip file for data) that can be used on HD-DVD and BD. It will likely never be used in satellite broadcasting. Another misconception about TrueHD is need for a new yet to be released HDMI 1.3 receiver to use it. The TrueHD decoder can be (and is on many) included in the HD-DVD/BD played and decode and send a LPCM stream over HDMI (1.0 and up) or output through the analog outputs. I have a HD-DVD player and enjoy TrueHD this way.


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## gilunionhall (May 8, 2006)

"and the Broncos about to be in the playoffs (likely)"

is there another team you would like to root for now?

gil


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## munchcolo (Dec 19, 2005)

gilunionhall said:


> "and the Broncos about to be in the playoffs (likely)"
> 
> is there another team you would like to root for now?
> 
> gil


Oh well, I really wanted to spend more time in the workshop and less in front of the TV. Besides, the new season of 24 starts on January 24, and that's reason enough for HD.


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## gilunionhall (May 8, 2006)

hi munchcolo -

i have purchased a denon 1905 receiver that is just sitting there waiting to get hooked up after i finish building my speakers.

i'm not sure how similar the 2 receivers are, but i have bookmarked this thread for when i get everything ready to be hooked up.

i initally got the Dish system because they were the only ones with TNTHD and 1/2 of the NASCAR races were on that channel - and it was well worth the purchase.

gil


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## munchcolo (Dec 19, 2005)

munchcolo said:


> Oh well, I really wanted to spend more time in the workshop and less in front of the TV. Besides, the new season of 24 starts on January 24, and that's reason enough for HD.


It's NOT January 24, it IS January 14 for the premier of 24.


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## Larry Caldwell (Apr 4, 2005)

ssmith10pn said:


> Just push the 5 channel sterio button and let it do it's thing automatically.


The correct advice for audio is very similar to the correct advice for video - use the setting that sounds best on your system. Actually, I change the audio settings more often than I change the video settings. Sometimes I use the THX setting, sometimes straight DD, sometimes Dolby Prologic, sometimes Stereo, depending on the source. Audio CDs sound better letting the DVD player decode them and send the signal over the analog outputs, but DVD movies sound better riding on light.

Fortunately, my recever lets me switch just by poking a button on the remote. Sometimes I try two or three modes before I find the best one.


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## sleepy hollow (Aug 25, 2003)

Regarding the 622, I thought that it would put out 5.1 only on the optical output, and not the HDMI. My understanding is the 622 HDMI only puts out 2 channel stereo. 

If so, then the Dolby Pro Logic II or IIx will process the 2 channels into a surround field.

I have the Yamaha RX-V2600, and still cannot figure out what the best setting is. I have hdmi for my projector, and am using the component/optical for my family room HDTV CRT. (Both TVs see same content in HD, as available.)

I think I just decided today to split the optical and run that to the 2600 and see if I can also get the 5.1 that way in the HT room (7.1 setup). 

Also with the 2600 there is the Yamaha proprietary DSP technology which takes a variety of source audio and processes it into an allegedly superior 7.1 field. I must say it sounds pretty darn good with 5.1 DVDs (T3, Narnia). 

Narnia also claims to have DTS encoding, which I am trying to "isolate" on the 2600 to test that vs. Dolby. No luck so far, but just started trying when I noticed the logo on the box. 

Life was so much simpler when we had only a handful of b'cast channels, could not record material, and had to wait 2-3 years for feature movies to come to TV. 

I recall being just as thrilled with that lo-tech solution, because it did not seem lo-tech then. Ah, well, we must be sure to reward the Hollywood glitterati who set such good examples for all of us on how they keep families together and model virtue every day in their private lives. 

But I digress. 

Surround sound is really a gas!


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## TheTony (Jan 6, 2006)

SaltiDawg said:


> Not sure what you mean "not capable of 720p *output.*"


I'd assume he means that it cannot send a 720 signal to the display device. That is, while it can receive a 720 signal, it cannot display it, at least natively. As you noted, it will be (up)converted.


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## hoobafrank (Jan 8, 2007)

1080i displays 1080 lines of resolution at 30 frames per second. 720p displays 720 lines of resolution at 60 frames per second. Depending on the type of programming, 1080 might look better because it has more lines. You'd want to use 720 on programming that has a lot of fast movement like sports programs or racing because it displays more information per second than 1080i. Is really difficult to see the differences in the two. But if your tv can't display 720p without converting, I would just run 1080i.


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