# Why does Dish not offer HD package choices?



## tedb3rd (Feb 2, 2006)

With all this price increase stuff, why doesn't DN offer more HD 'packages' to choose from? ...like one that is like DirecTV's current HD package for $10... and then also (for example) a $20 package that includes the VOOM networks.

Would anybody else be interested in a $10 package.. or even a $15 package? Yeah, it's just a few $/month... but it would offset the DVR fees and all that other BS!! $5/month = $60/year... $10/month = $120/year. It starts adding up--especially if you're not watching those channels!


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

I think they should offer a $10 package that doesn't include the Voom junk. I'm only interested in the locals, TNT, ESPN and SCIFI when that launches.

As things stand, they don't even offer [edit: CW and MyNetwork] superstations in HD even though they are available through every other provider in my area.

The reason they did this $20 package is they know they wouldn't get enough subrscribers for that stuff if they didn't force people to buy it.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Since WB and UPN no longer exist, I'm guessing you don't have any local providers providing them anymore!

You *might* have CW and MyNetwork though... or you may not.


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

HDMe said:


> Since WB and UPN no longer exist, I'm guessing you don't have any local providers providing them anymore!
> 
> You *might* have CW and MyNetwork though... or you may not.


Yeah I meant to say CW not WB. They change the names way too often 

Not sure what UPN is called now, for me it's WWOR - my9.


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## mxd (Jan 17, 2006)

I sure would be interested. The VOOM channels are next to worthless.


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

mxd said:


> I sure would be interested. The VOOM channels are next to worthless.


Perhaps to you, but there are many of us who enjoy the VOOM channels.
I wish I still had them, but maybe that's because I happen to appreciate
a wider variety of programming if its broadcast in HD


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## kdwebsol (Jan 29, 2006)

mxd said:


> I sure would be interested. The VOOM channels are next to worthless.


I agree.....

There are a few shows that I watch on the Voom channels but I would not really miss them. I would rather save a few dollars then have channels that I do not watch. Even if it was $18 for HD and $20 HD with Voom. But, I think E* will not offer this.

Ken


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

Nick said:


> Perhaps to you, but there are many of us who enjoy the VOOM channels.
> I wish I still had them, but maybe that's because I happen to appreciate
> a wider variety of programming if its broadcast in HD


If there are many who agree with you, then it should be no big deal for them to offer Voom as a $10 upgrade over a regular HD package for $10 which basically gave you HD versions of SD channels that you already got - i.e. TNT and ESPN.

I think the reason they don't offer this option is because they know that not many people would subscribe to the Voom channels.


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## tnsprin (Mar 16, 2003)

killzone said:


> If there are many who agree with you, then it should be no big deal for them to offer Voom as a $10 upgrade over a regular HD package for $10 which basically gave you HD versions of SD channels that you already got - i.e. TNT and ESPN.
> 
> I think the reason they don't offer this option is because they know that not many people would subscribe to the Voom channels. There is a reason Rainbow media sold that crap off.


As already mentioned, Rainbow Media did not sell off Voom. They are the providers to DISH. The deal is not totally exclusive, so other cable/satellite services could offer them if they want.

Dish actually had lots of people sign up for the first 10 Voom channels they carried. It was then $5 for Voom and mandatory $10 for other HD channels they were then carrying.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

I can't begin to count the number of channels in AT-180 (HD Gold) that I don't watch. But, I pay the price to get the ones I do want, like Science, Nat Geo, History International, Discovery Times, Encore Movies, etc. That's the way it is. Some providers will have different bundles, but they all use bundles to grab you.


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

Mikey said:


> I can't begin to count the number of channels in AT-180 (HD Gold) that I don't watch. But, I pay the price to get the ones I do want, like Science, Nat Geo, History International, Discovery Times, Encore Movies, etc. That's the way it is. Some providers will have different bundles, but they all use bundles to grab you.


Yup.

In a case like this you might as well be talking about SD channels too.

Why dont they just offer an SD package that only includes about half the channels that the lowest current SD package contains cause thats all I want. It's not like I watch a bunch of those channels just cause they're there... it's no different than people who dont watch the Voom channels even though they're there.

Theres no shortage of channels in that package people would opt out of if they could save a few bucks.

What if *my* beef is the fact that I have no problem paying whatever it is for the HD portion because I watch most all the chanels in it from time to time.. but dont like the fact I'm paying whatever for the SD part where 95% of the channels in there I *never* watch. Mind you I couldnt really do without it altogether.

Why cant they gimme an option to cut that SD portion in half?

Just cause... thats why. 

Plus I'm sure in the future there will be HD package choices as more channels switch over. Since theres so relatively few HD channels now it's sort of an "all in" type deal. But that wont always be the case no more so than now where you can do diff levels of SD channels.

Hey it could be worse.. it wasnt that many years ago where Discovery HD alone was a 7.99 a month add-on. Albeit it was voluntary but it still makes a bunch of Voom channels for whatever extra they cost seem like a bargain.


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

tnsprin said:


> As already mentioned, Rainbow Media did not sell off Voom. They are the providers to DISH. The deal is not totally exclusive, so other cable/satellite services could offer them if they want.
> 
> Dish actually had lots of people sign up for the first 10 Voom channels they carried. It was then $5 for Voom and mandatory $10 for other HD channels they were then carrying.


I had posted this before I saw the correction in the other thread. But it is interesting that Cablevision themselves don't offer their own subscribers the Voom package.


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

DP1 said:


> Yup.
> 
> In a case like this you might as well be talking about SD channels too.
> 
> Why dont they just offer an SD package that only includes about half the channels that the lowest current SD package contains cause thats all I want. It's not like I watch a bunch of those channels just cause they're there... it's no different than people who dont watch the Voom channels even though they're there.


I think it's a bit different from the a la cart discussions. The difference is there are many people like myself that simply want HD versions of channels that I already receive in SD. Many cable providers give you that for free (like Cablevision, and I believe Fios does as well).

What dish is saying, sorry if you want TNT in HD you have to give us an extra $14 because we want you to buy Voom as well.

Again the key difference is that you already subscribe to TNT,ESPN etc. If you subscribe to HBO or Starz and locals you get all of those in HD for just the HD enabling fee. Why should TNT and ESPN be different? I could be wrong, but I doubt dish has to pay any extra fees for people that receive TNT HD in addition to the regular TNT channel.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

Dish DOES give us choices. You can choose to pay $20 or choose not to pay $20. That's a choice isn't it?


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

kmcnamara said:


> Dish DOES give us choices. You can choose to pay $20 or choose not to pay $20. That's a choice isn't it?


You can choose not to pay the $20, but you can't choose not to pay the $6 if you have a vip622.

My choice is not to pay the extra $14


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## Yes616 (Sep 6, 2006)

killzone said:


> Yeah I meant to say CW not WB. They change the names way too often
> 
> Not sure what UPN is called now, for me it's WWOR - my9.


WWOR is MyNetwork in NYC. I guess you don't watch that one much.


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## robert koerner (Aug 20, 2005)

Uuum. I think its called elasticity of demand.

If Dish could get more revenue by lowering price, they would.

In essence, their costs are fixed. The packages are designed to bring the most revenue, with respect to what is avaliable to consumers via other providers.

You want to minimize your out going funds; Dish wants to maximize their incoming funds.

Bob


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

Considering every other provider has a basic HD package (HD versions of chanels they already receive) for $10 or free, you would think they would at least give the option. Otherwise they risk losing customers that are interested in that. It's not like it would cost them extra to do this. They still offer it that way to the grandfathered people.


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

But even thats relative, Kill. Cause with other providers you likely will need a more expensive base package of SD channels than what E* requires/offers before the HD "Pack" even comes into play. Obviously if one is going to sub to a higher end SD package regardless though then that part of it is moot.

I was gonna say with DirecTV for example where TC last I'd checked was 39.99 and then you'd have to add 10.00 on top of that for the HD Pack. Thats the same price I pay for HD Bronze which gives me less SD channels (I presume) but more HD channels.

But now I just noticed TC is 44.99 plus the 10.00 for HD.

Dont get me wrong, I totally understand the points you're making in this thread. I hate being required to buy things I dont really want also. But for me that comes down to SD channels I dont want, not HD ones.

Honestly though I dont even know the breakdown I have currently. If I have HDBronze at 49.99 how much of that is cause of the HD part? In other words how much does the same number of SD channels alone cost?

Not that I really care but I always assumed it was about 20/HD and 30/SD. Is that not about right?


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## La Push Commercial Codman (Jan 5, 2007)

Years from now, everything goes H.D., and when it all goes H.D.. Then will be forking out about the same. There won't be any choice. When it happen's, hopefully prices will go down. For now Voom is selling at a special $ Price. We do know one thing. Liberty Media owns Voom, and Just purchased DirecTV from NewsCorp. What kind of deal, will Dish get's from Voom, since Liberty Media owns Voom and DirecTV, I wonder about where Dish Network stand?

Back to topic. If it's coming down to prices, then we may see many Dish Voom subs signing up for DirecTV, That less then a half million Voom Subs. So hang in there, prices will go up. The price for ESPN is double, since there is ESPN HD. If you don't like it, then hope everything is hd and figure a lesser price.. A.t. 250 s.d. channels at $sub price, plus HD pack..

If Dish network says, that's it, Then Dish would loose Voom Subs. dropping Voom. I see not everyone wants Voom, but did Dish buy out 61.5 W.L., or do we end up sharing with DirecTV. I hope not. I have no problem with this, but since Liberty Media has Voom, what does it mean to Dish, about DirecTV? Wasted hd bandwidth on Voom hd channels... Atleast you don't have to buy Voom channels, if you don't want too. DirecTV will soon be getting Voom Channels, but if Liberty is unfair to Dish, like NewsCorp-DirecTV was unfair to Dish Network, Then many Dish subs already hate DirecTV, and anytime a deal goes sour, Vooms subs will be pissed off.


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## Mardi Gras (Dec 22, 2006)

La Push Commercial Codman said:


> We do know one thing. Liberty Media owns Voom


Rainbow Media owns Voom. And Cablevision Systems owns Rainbow Media.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DP1 said:


> But now I just noticed TC is 44.99 plus the 10.00 for HD.


Going up to $47.99 on March 1st for existing customers. New customers (as of February 6th) will pay $49.99 for the newly named "Choice" (the word Total dropped) package and $10.99 more as a "HD technology fee" if they have a HD receiver on their account. Instead of charging for an add on HD Pack D* is going to charge for receiving the HD of channels one already subscribes to.

A new subscriber wanting "Choice" plus HD would pay $60.98 - the lowest price for HD on D*. There is a "Choice Plus" package replaces the old TC+ and includes the DVR fee and HD technology fee for $69.99 per month. This is every channel D* has except the premiums. E*'s new Dish DVR Advantage plan for $69.99 is AT200+DVR Fee+HD.


DP1 said:


> Honestly though I dont even know the breakdown I have currently. If I have HDBronze at 49.99 how much of that is cause of the HD part? In other words how much does the same number of SD channels alone cost?
> 
> Not that I really care but I always assumed it was about 20/HD and 30/SD. Is that not about right?


Yep. You can subscribe to AT60 for $29.99 (soon to be called AT100 with 32 CD music channels added). The additional HD channels added $20 to the price of all the AT packages to create the metallic packages.

In the new pricing DishHD becomes a separate package for $20. The breakdown will be easier to see on your bill.


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## DP1 (Sep 16, 2002)

Thanks for taking the time there, James.

Yeah for me thats bascially the primary reason I've always been with Dish when it comes to base packages at least... because they had lower base packages and I watch so very few channels.

Mind you technically I am a D* sub too just because I have a grandfathered NFL-ST ala carte deal, but yeah.


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## killzone (Dec 27, 2006)

DP1 said:


> But even thats relative, Kill. Cause with other providers you likely will need a more expensive base package of SD channels than what E* requires/offers before the HD "Pack" even comes into play. Obviously if one is going to sub to a higher end SD package regardless though then that part of it is moot.


True, not all providers have cheap base packages. What got me worked up over this is I happened to be over at my mom's house and the topic of HD, cable and satellite came up. She wanted to know if she should switch to satellite, so I took a look at her bill and checked out the other Cablevision packages online. To be honest I was surprised at what I found. I just assumed Satellite was going to be cheaper. I figured it might not be lower by enough to make it worth her effort to switch.

Their most basic package is $15.52 you would have to pay $6/month extra for an HD DVR (if you wanted HD). It includes the following:

ABC HD†
C-SPAN2
CBS HD†
CW HD†
Cablevision Channel Guide
Eyewitness News Now*
FOX HD†
Home Shopping Network
Jewelry Television
Kids Thirteen*
Local Programming
My9 HD†
NBC HD†
News 12 Long Island
Optimum Autos*
Optimum Homes*
Public Access
QVC
Shop NBC
The Tube†
Thirteen HD†
Thirteen World*
WABC
WABC Plus*
WCBS
WFTY
WLIW
WLIW Create*
WLIW Digital†
WLNY
WNBC
WNBC 4.4*
WNBC Weather Plus*
WNET
WNJU
WNYE
WNYW
WPIX
WPXN
WWOR
WXTV

They also have a family broadcast package for $46.95 which includes almost(I didn't do an exaustive comparison to AT120) the non music channels in AT120.

Then for $10 you can add (to either the $15 package or the $47 one) about 25 more channels to get it pretty close to at180.
BBC World News
BET Jazz
Biography Channel
Bloomberg TV
C-SPAN3
CMT
Discovery Home Channel
Discovery Kids
Discovery Times
ESPN Classics
ESPN News
EuroNews
FOX Movie Channel
FOX Soccer Channel
FOX Sports Español
G4 videogame tv
Hallmark Channel
History International
Logo
MTV Hits
MTV Tr3s
Military Channel
NYS Legislative TV
National Geographic Channel
Nick Gas
Nick Toons
Noggin
OLN -> Versus
Oxygen
Science Channel
Sportskool
Telemundo Puerto Rico
Toon Disney
VH1 Classics
VH1 Soul
iO Sports2
mun2

Then at the top end for $68 a month you can get their at180 comparable package + HBO, Starz and Encore.

Their top tier above that adds Showtime and Cinemax and is $88.

If all you were interested in was SD, or if there were some specific channels in at60, then it's pretty close in price to Dish. The real savings come when you want HD. They don't charge extra for HD and they have about 20-30 HD channels (Including CW and MyNetwork which Dish does not have).

My bill for 2 622's (owned - if I leased my bill would be $12 more a month) and 1 SD receiver, for AT180, $8.99 superstation grandfathered package, DVR fees, HD fee and Digital & IHSP comes out to around $95 a month. This is without any premium channels.

It's kind of hard to compare equipment charges, but essentially Cablevision charges around $6 as a lease fee and then $1.50 for cablecards. Dish charges a little more since in addition to any lease fees, they charge $5 for some receivers and $6 for others like the 622.


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