# RIP R15 and R16



## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

At the investor day conference DIRECTV announced that they would stop shipping SD DVRs by the second half of 2008 and ship a single HD DVR with a smaller hard drive and HD services turned off. This box woulod run same software as HR21.


----------



## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Interesting. Wonder if a bit flip would enable the HD?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

That doesn't mean the R15/R16 are dead...

Just means they will cease production (Which the R15's already have)


----------



## jclarke9999 (Feb 10, 2007)

Hmmm, I guess this finalizes my decision as to whether I should replace my Samsung Tivo with a HR2X or not since I was planning on doing it later this year.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

As far as I know the last R15s rolled off the line in December, but R16s are still being made. DIRECTV has a long history of supporting legacy hardware and I'm sure the R15s will be no exception.


----------



## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

dvrblogger said:


> At the investor day conference DIRECTV announced that they would stop shipping SD DVRs by the second half of 2008 and ship a single HD DVR with a smaller hard drive and HD services turned off. This box woulod run same software as HR21.


So I guess the R16 is kind of a "lame duck" product that few subscribers are ever going to see. :nono2: Ha ha NDS!

On the downside, this probably signals the end of software fixes for the R15 platform (I wonder if they will fix the "R icon bug" before this happens).

But on the plus side I was hoping that I would never have to return my two R15-300's at the end of my commitment plus I have a couple desktop computers that probably will need new HDD's about that time!


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

There is a LONG way to go in the year... and there are a LOT of R15's in teh system.

There will always be an "end" to the software updates/support...

But that is a long time away still


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

R16 is anything but a lame duck, it's an important part of the strategy, allowing DIRECTV to keep offering an SD DVR for a longer period, as the unit's cost of manufacturing is much lower than R15.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Quite honestly this makes sense, and simplifies development and support by eliminating dissimilar duplicate platforms. I don't really understand why DirecTV introduced the R16 at all.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Upstream said:


> Quite honestly this makes sense, and simplifies development and support by eliminating dissimilar duplicate platforms. I don't really understand why DirecTV introduced the R16 at all.


Because developing the R16, with SWM and SD support... was still significantly cheaper (for now), then the HR2* platform...

For installations that need SWM and SD.

There are still a LOT of people (especially in MDU's), that haven't gone HD.


----------



## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> There is a LONG way to go in the year... and there are a LOT of R15's in teh system.
> 
> There will always be an "end" to the software updates/support...
> 
> But that is a long time away still


Very true. There are probably MILLIONS of R15's sitting in customer's homes right now as it was the dominant DVR for three years....and still is the only "PLUS" DVR being offered to new customers as a free upgrade.

That's a lot of hardware to "retire" overnight.

I suspect that R15 exchanges and "protection plan" service calls will result in a replacement R15/R16 for a LONG time.

I just hope the software development/fixes efforts continue considering how many subscribers will still be using this hardware for years to come.


----------



## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

ThomasM said:


> Very true. There are probably MILLIONS of R15's sitting in customer's homes right now as it was the dominant DVR for three years....and still is the only "PLUS" DVR being offered to new customers as a free upgrade.
> 
> That's a lot of hardware to "retire" overnight.
> 
> ...


Given that I have (3) R15's, (2) DTiVo's and (1) R16, I sure as heck hope the SD DVR platform remains for quite some time... Frankly, I don't have the need for HD on every TV in my house - just the family room for now (where my HR20 sits), and as TV's fail, then I will consider an HDTV replacement.

... but given the general reliability of tube TV's, I think that all of my "additional" TV's will be around for quite some time!


----------



## ThomasM (Jul 20, 2007)

dmurphy said:


> Given that I have (3) R15's, (2) DTiVo's and (1) R16, I sure as heck hope the SD DVR platform remains for quite some time... Frankly, I don't have the need for HD on every TV in my house - just the family room for now (where my HR20 sits), and as TV's fail, then I will consider an HDTV replacement.
> 
> ... but given the general reliability of tube TV's, I think that all of my "additional" TV's will be around for quite some time!


I hear you! I am a 100% SD DirecTV subscriber and from looking around my neighborhood, all I see is 18" ROUND DirecTV dishes (lots of them) so I know I'm not the exception.

When my SD TV's break down, they will be replaced with HD sets. But not before.


----------



## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

tfederov said:


> Interesting. Wonder if a bit flip would enable the HD?


That was the implicvation or they could offer free weekend or special super bowl in HD for all SD DVR owners etc.


----------



## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> That doesn't mean the R15/R16 are dead...
> 
> Just means they will cease production (Which the R15's already have)


Earl is correct. I didn't imply that the R15 would be "dead" just cease being in production but also unlikely to get major upgrades due to lack of horsepower and connectivity. No DOD,media share or other new features. The big question is will the new UI mentioned at the conference be ported to the R15/R16 if so probably after any HR2X or new Basic HD-SD dvr.


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

dvrblogger said:


> I didn't imply that the R15 would be "dead" just cease being in production but also unlikely to get major upgrades due to lack of horsepower and connectivity.


That's a little different from


dvrblogger said:


> ...stop shipping SD DVRs by the second half of 2008...


Stop shipping sure sounds like no new customers will get them. And, the second half of 2008 is only four months from now.

So the R16 was created only to be distributed for 6 months? Or, only in production for 6 months to create a stock pile? It just doesn't sound right to me. Were they only talking about the R15?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

qwerty said:


> That's a little different from
> 
> Stop shipping sure sounds like no new customers will get them. And, the second half of 2008 is only four months from now.
> 
> So the R16 was created only to be distributed for 6 months? Or, only in production for 6 months to create a stock pile? It just doesn't sound right to me. Were they only talking about the R15?


Did they specifically state R15... I only recall them referring to the SD-DVR...

And then eventually moving to a model, where there is one unit...


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Did they specifically state R15... I only recall them referring to the SD-DVR...
> 
> And then eventually moving to a model, where there is one unit...


That's what I'm asking. If it's all the SD DVR's, then what's the deal with the R16? They release it in Jan 08 and discontinue it in July 08?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

It could still be worth it to make it for such a short period. Computer manufacturers do it all the time.


----------



## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Did they specifically state R15... I only recall them referring to the SD-DVR...
> 
> And then eventually moving to a model, where there is one unit...


The .pdf indicates NO SD DVR will be available going forward...only HD basic receiver and HD DVRs

And then eventually only HD DVRs

In about 6 months R16s will no longer be offered.

I am sure as soon as they can no longer take the depreciation on the R15/16s they will be replaced with HD units...


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> The .pdf indicates NO SD DVR will be available going forward...only HD basic receiver and HD DVRs
> 
> And then eventually only HD DVRs
> 
> ...


I believe they discussed a single unit, that can be set to SD only, and then either software updated, or access coded to then enable HD.

I can see the R16's stop being produced around that time, but still be available until they dry up their stock... but we will see later this year.


----------



## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

But the invester conference call said they would stop shipping SD-DVRs by the second half of 2008. They didn't say they would stop manufacturing and continue shipping until they deplete inventory. That means they introduced the R16 in January, and plan to stop shipping it within 6 months of its introduction. (Even if they meant stop shipping "in second half", not "by second half", the unit will stop shipping within 12 months of its introduction.)

It makes you wonder why the invested the time and effort into developing and manufacturing a new product that would be so quickly obsolete.

The only reasons I can think of are (a) they had already completed development before they had planned the platform convergence, or (b) they saw so many problems with the R15 that they needed a replacement, even if only for 6 months.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Even if they do stop shipping in the second half of 2008.

That is a good solid 9 months, of penetration for a unit that was needed for the MDU/SWM markets.

There wasn't "tremedous" amount of R&D and cost spent on the R16 development, and it's production costs are lower then that of the R15.

The PRIMARY reason for the R16, was SWM compatibility.


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> ...That is a good solid 9 months, of penetration for a unit that was needed for the MDU/SWM markets...
> ...The PRIMARY reason for the R16, was SWM compatibility...


And somehow it makes sense to stop shipping them 6 to nine months after they're released?


----------



## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> DIRECTV has a long history of supporting legacy hardware and I'm sure the R15s will be no exception.


Considering that there are people out there still using Sony Sat-B2's, I would have to agree.


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I believe they discussed a single unit, that can be set to SD only, and then either software updated, or access coded to then enable HD.


That doesn't make much sense to me either. The only HD material it can record is the HD service you have to subscribe to, isn't it? Why go to the trouble/expense of disableing HD functionality at all?


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

qwerty said:


> That doesn't make much sense to me either. The only HD material it can record is the HD service you have to subscribe to, isn't it? Why go to the trouble/expense of disableing HD functionality at all?


What do you think the activation would actually do?
Enable the box to see and work with the HD stream.

I doubt anything would really change on the hardware level (as in new chips turning on and off)


----------



## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I believe they discussed a single unit, that can be set to SD only, and then either software updated, or access coded to then enable HD.


Assuming this is the correct approach they'll take, what will this mean in terms of biliing when a customer wants to flip the switch to get access to the HD features? Will it be a new HD fee for the entire account or per each receiver?

I ask because in my mother's situation, she has multiple HDVR2/R10s, an R15, and an HR20, so she pays a DVR fee for the account and pays the HD Access Fee for the account. She also pays for the protection plan. A year from now that R15 dies or an HDVR2 dies, and is replaced with an HD-DVR. Is the HD access automatically turned on in this replacement equipment because she pays the HD Access fee on the account, or will she have to pay a separate per-box fee to turn it on?


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> What do you think the activation would actually do?
> Enable the box to see and work with the HD stream.
> 
> I doubt anything would really change on the hardware level (as in new chips turning on and off)


I just assumed they could do it like they do with the SD boxes. Just because it's activated doesn't mean I can get top tier programing and premium movie channels unless I subscribe to it.

They can't do that with HD programing on the HD DVR's?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes they can. I suspect that the only difference between the two DVRs would be hard drive size. It might even be cheaper to have them all have the same drive and simply partition them differently. A call to DIRECTV could be all it takes to activate HD service in that case.


----------



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Drew2k said:


> Assuming this is the correct approach they'll take, what will this mean in terms of biliing when a customer wants to flip the switch to get access to the HD features? Will it be a new HD fee for the entire account or per each receiver?
> 
> I ask because in my mother's situation, she has multiple HDVR2/R10s, an R15, and an HR20, so she pays a DVR fee for the account and pays the HD Access Fee for the account. She also pays for the protection plan. A year from now that R15 dies or an HDVR2 dies, and is replaced with an HD-DVR. Is the HD access automatically turned on in this replacement equipment because she pays the HD Access fee on the account, or will she have to pay a separate per-box fee to turn it on?


No idea...

Until it is done... we won't know..

It could be both...


----------



## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Assuming this is the correct approach they'll take, what will this mean in terms of biliing when a customer wants to flip the switch to get access to the HD features? Will it be a new HD fee for the entire account or per each receiver?
> 
> I ask because in my mother's situation, she has multiple HDVR2/R10s, an R15, and an HR20, so she pays a DVR fee for the account and pays the HD Access Fee for the account. She also pays for the protection plan. A year from now that R15 dies or an HDVR2 dies, and is replaced with an HD-DVR. Is the HD access automatically turned on in this replacement equipment because she pays the HD Access fee on the account, or will she have to pay a separate per-box fee to turn it on?


I would think that if you have HD access already, you wouldn't pay anything more. I think the idea here is just to save both the user and DirecTV money in the long run. They give you an HD capable DVR that you use for SD. When you finally upgrade your TV to a HDTV, they give you access to the HD stream for the monthly access fee. They don't need to send you a new box. Of course, you'd need to have your dish updated when you switch your first box over to HD, but any additional boxes can just be turned on for HD when you get HDTV's.

It would definitely save the users the hassle of having someone come out to do a professional install to just plug in a receiver as a new receiver would not be needed, plus DirecTV saves money in that they don't need to pay someone to go out and plug in a receiver.

Maybe I can hold out long enough to upgrade to this DVR and get SWM as well.

- Merg


----------



## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Of course, you'd need to have your dish updated when you switch your first box over to HD, but any additional boxes can just be turned on for HD when you get HDTV's.


Ahhh...maybe that's why they plan to mod HD DVR. Maybe they need to to get it to work with a non HD dish?


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Actually you can use a single LNB dish with the current HD DVR, you just won't get anything but programming on 101.


----------



## dvrblogger (Jan 11, 2005)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Yes they can. I suspect that the only difference between the two DVRs would be hard drive size. It might even be cheaper to have them all have the same drive and simply partition them differently. A call to DIRECTV could be all it takes to activate HD service in that case.


The drive size has little affect on the software customers with external drives use all kinds of different sizes today with the sam,e software version.


----------



## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

Would this move all their DVR's in house and get rid of NDS?
Will this box have the Ethernet connection?
Will it be DOD compatable?
Will it work with the external OTA tuners (for those that want their sub-channels or neighboring locals)?
Will it work with media share?
Will it work with a "Ten Box" or what ever that external storage device is called?
What color will it be (Black), it sounds related to the HR21....
I know a lot of questions and it's probably way too early to tell.....


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I don't think anyone knows the answer to all of that, but as far as NDS, they are still involved with the receiver-only models, so they'd still be around.


----------



## dodge boy (Mar 31, 2006)

I said before (when the hr21 came out) that D*should move to 1 platform DVR and either turn on HD access or not... with 1 box being made it is cheaper in hardware and also in software (1 version) and in CSR support and all the "extras" DOD, networking, etc. would be available across the board so SD only subs don't feel like their left out in the cold.


----------



## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

You know, I thought the same thing back then... and it looks like we were right!


----------



## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

I still have an orignal RCA from 1996 and it works slow but it still works.


----------



## Jhon69 (Mar 28, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't think anyone knows the answer to all of that, but as far as NDS, they are still involved with the receiver-only models, so they'd still be around.


Is NDS still doing the R15's.


----------



## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

The R15 and R16 are both NDS based.

Carl


----------

