# Building a computer - what would you get



## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

Once I'm finished with school here in the next few days I would like to rebuild/buy a new computer. What are some things you guys suggest getting. If I don't get the "best" of everything I would like it to be easily upgradable (I know...who doesn't). I would like:

1GB+ RAM 
3.0+ GHz processor (maybe more)
200GB+ SATA Hard Drive 8MB+ Buffer 
Dual layer DVD+/-RW
decent video card w. DVI output (the only game I play is poker and I alter the graphics to basically nothing ) I just got a new LCD monitor, though (dell was running a special on the 20'')

Basically everything I do is processor heavy but graphics light. Thanks for any input.

Things like buffer size on hard drive, outputs, and all the little things help, too.

Thanks!

Guess I can add this: I would like to reuse the:

Case
350watt power supply
ZIP drive
Floppy Drive ('cause I can't let go)
USB 2.0 PCI card


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

Processor needs to be over 3Ghz and a hyper-threading on a Windows machine now. 2Ghz is too slow. I'm even seeing cheapo Emachines with 2.8 Ghz now. I got my computer is 2003 and I've got a 3.2 Ghz. 
Everything else looks good.
make sure you have plunty of USB 2.0 and at least one firewire input for future and current external components.


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

The next system I build will have a PCIe/PCIx (PCI express) motherboard and graphics card. But it may be overkill if you're not really interested in graphics performance. The 2 gig processors are probably all but discontinued. 3.0 is about the benchmark these days.

EDIT

BTW - I'm fond of AMD processors. The mobo's are a little cheaper and the chips are a lot cheaper.


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## Bama Mac (May 12, 2004)

n8dagr8 said:


> Things like buffer size on hard drive, outputs, and all the little things help, too.
> 
> Thanks!


 At least an 8mb buffer on the HD.

I use www.pricewatch.com or www.pricegrabber.com to always find the best deals.


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

mini1 said:


> Processor needs to be over 3Ghz and a hyper-threading on a Windows machine now. 2Ghz is too slow. I'm even seeing cheapo Emachines with 2.8 Ghz now. I got my computer is 2003 and I've got a 3.2 Ghz.
> Everything else looks good.
> make sure you have plunty of USB 2.0 and at least one firewire input for future and current external components.


will update the list then....I have a 4 port USB PCI card and my monitor has 2 more.

so far so good guys...keep it coming! 

and thanks, again!


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

n8dagr8 said:


> Once I'm finished with school here in the next few days I would like to rebuild/buy a new computer. What are some things you guys suggest getting. If I don't get the "best" of everything I would like it to be easily upgradable (I know...who doesn't). I would like:
> 
> 1GB+ RAM
> 3.0+ GHz processor (maybe more)
> ...


I recently bought 3 new computers. One each for my wife, my son, and myself. Outwardly they are duplicates, all with 3.2 Intel processors, but my son's and mine have a different motherboard, with a faster 800 MHz front side bus, a gig of ram instead of the 512 meg that she has, and ours have the PCI Express slots so I can put some of the latest video cards in them. I'm waiting right now, partly since the computers pretty well tapped me, but also because the PCIe slots are new enough that ATI and NVidia are hard at work bringing out new models, and the prices are just starting to drop. My son and I are the gamers, mom isn't, so we got the hotter boxes.

My wife has a 200 gig WD HD, and my son and I have the same drive you are looking at. Since the MB is designed for the SATA I have taken all our old HDs and I have them in a drawer. When I need something off of one of them, or want to store something I use an external usb drive. Takes no time at all to access something that way, from any of six HDs. Otherwise, these drives work great, very fast.

All of them have Dual layer DVD recorders, plus a CD drive. I have not really had a chance to use them a lot yet. Mostly I need to go buy some disks so I can try them out.

I will echo that you can't have to many usb ports. Each of our boxes has 2 firewire ports and 6 usb 2s. That is sufficient for the other two boxes, but I also have two more 4 port hubs hooked up to mine.

Good luck.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

mini1 said:


> Processor needs to be over 3Ghz and a hyper-threading on a Windows machine now. 2Ghz is too slow. I'm even seeing cheapo Emachines with 2.8 Ghz now. I got my computer is 2003 and I've got a 3.2 Ghz. .


This is a complete falsehood. For years, computer manufacturers have based their specs off of the consumers desire to buy something NEW nice and shiny. I own both a Mac and a PC, the Mac clocking in at a G5 1.6GHZ and the PC clocking in at a P4 2.4GHZ and the both of them are more than sufficient to do anything I want to do. I have decent graphics cards and about a GB of RAM in each computer. The Mac does have a 10000RPM SATA in it but that is really the only high end component between the two that I splurged for and it is for light graphics work. If you are not doing video/audio editing, gaming, drafting, or high end web design work, there is no need to fall into the trap of buying bigger is always better. Go for a good Athlon in the mid 2's, grab a GB of RAM(most programs cannot use more than 512MB), a middle of the road graphics card, and don't skimp on the MOBO in case you do want to do some upgrades later and you're set. I teach high school computer classes and the first thing I always tell my seniors near graduation is not to go tell their parents to buy the biggest baddest mofo on the planet for their college work. Now, of course, most have no comprehension of money, so it doesn't matter but.... :nono2: What can ya do? LOL


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

So it comes down to what I've been struggling with anyway...the motherboard.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

From what it sounds, you just need a typical computer with a decent processor. Is there a reason why you are looking at building your own other the the "geek factor"? The reason why I ask is that any more a prebuilt computer can be had for less then you can build it piece-wise.

I recently purchased a computer for my parents. It had a 2.53GB Celeron processor, 256MB of ECC memory, 160GB SATA drive, 8MB integrated video card, a CD-Rom drive, and a great case. Basically everything to run the computer except a floppy drive, sound card, and OS. Using the lowest pricewatch price for everything, I get $113 for mobo/proc, $23 for the memory, $75 for the hard drive, $10 for the CD-ROM drive. So I'm already up to $221 and I still don't have a case/power supply or shipping to get everything to me.

The computer I got for my parents was $242 shipped from Dell and I had it in 2 business days, and I didn't have to put anything together. I use to be a fan of putting computers together, but when I can tell a person that they can get a slightly better then bare bones computer from a major company with a year of support/warranty for less then they can piece it out from the cheapest place on the internet, which do you think I'm going to recommend?

To the debate as to which processor speed to get, I'd say 75% of the population can't tell the difference between identical systems except one running at 2.5GHz and another running at 3.2+GHz, assuming the system isn't loaded down with malware or other crap. Speed use to be important, but anymore typical use just has the computer sitting at slightly more then an idle


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

So which Dell can be had for $242 these days for that price?


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

ibglowin said:


> So which Dell can be had for $242 these days for that price?


SC420. The deal is now dead though. The thing that finally hooked me for my parents was the quad-upgrade on the SATA drive. The actual price was 229 but with tax (6% in Indiana) it goes up to 242.74.

Wait a few weeks and a similar deal, or maybe free processor upgrade will come along. The same system, only with a 2.8P4 (w/HT) and a 40GB drive for $299 comes up fairly regularly.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

Oh, Now I know why the model sounded familiar. Its an entry level server. The memory is more expensive and it doesn't have normal PCI slots.


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

AMD Athon 64 FX processor and MB. Excellent 32 bit support plus 64 bit support.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

ibglowin said:


> Oh, Now I know why the model sounded familiar. Its an entry level server. The memory is more expensive and it doesn't have normal PCI slots.


Yes it is the most basic entry level server that they have. That's why XP isn't officially supported but runs perfectly fine on it. It has 3 traditional PCI slots, an 16x PCIe slot (crippled to 8x due to a key in the slot but modifiable back to 16x), and a 1x PCIe slot. The memory that comes with it is the more expensive ECC memory, but regular DDR2 533 (or 400) non-ECCcan be used. You just can't mix and match types...it's either all ECC or not. You do pay a slight premium for ECC...a 1GB DIMM runs $175 for ECC and $122 for non-ECC (current prices on Pricewatch)...but ECC is better memory.

Check out the SC420 FAQ for more information.


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

May I add that when buying a computer you should always buy for the future. That's why I said get 3Ghz or more. With a computer, you should always buy the most you can possibly afford. Max everything out. I've done that many times, and not only does the computer outlast most others, it holds it's value better, and is still cool, even at 4 or 5 years old. You don't want to buy for todays uses, (or use with external components), you want to buy a computer for what the future holds. One of those things will be much faster processors, so max that out now.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Its not worth putting another $100-200 to buy a computer just because it is 0.2 GHZ faster for example. Its not worth putting that kind of money in that small of a speed increase when the money for more memory instead would do you better.

Also those cheap computers for around $300 from Dell does that including the shipping cost? Usually they want another $100 for shipping.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

Power Supply: Are you sure that 350 Watts is enough? I think the power requirements on the new computers are higher, and the newer Pentiums (not AMDS) have a 4-pin power connector in addition to the ATX power connector. I prefer Antec power supplies, and the newer ones have plug-ins on the side of the power supply so that you plug in the cables you only need instead of a rats nest of cables.

USB: Many of the motherboards have headers for USB 2.0 on the motherboard itself in addition to the USB plugs in the back, so a USB board isn't needed. There are also boxes that will give you front-mounted USB ports which I find handy when plugging in my USB drive.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

mini1 said:


> I've done that many times, and not only does the computer outlast most others, it holds it's value better, and is still cool, even at 4 or 5 years old.
> 
> 
> > 4 or 5 years old? You couldn't possibly be using a homebrew system from 2000? I think in 2000 I had an Athlon T-Bird running 1.2GHZ and a Mac Dual G4 running 550's. You can not plan 5 years ahead. 1 or 2 is possible, but not 4 or 5. With the rate of acceleration of technology, PCI-X and 3.2GHZ will be another small blip in 2010.


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

Shesh...u guys are a lot of help! :lol:....I'm looking at some of the Dell whatevernumber-n series computers (no monitor/keyboard/mouse/OS). Looks like I have a lot more research to do. Thanks for the discussion, though. I'm going to add DVI output to the list for the video card.


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

n8dagr8 said:


> I'm going to add DVI output to the list for the video card.


You're changing gears. A video card with a DVI out is a good card. Speaking of which, I'm partial to the nVidia chipsets. I've used lots of them over the years and they've been rock solid. We used some ATI Radeons at work on some high end engineering workstations and had some issues. But then again we have also used some _really really_ expensive Oxygen and Matrox cards and had issues too.

Mark brought up a good point on power supplies. I'd go 450 or 500 watt min. and get one of the new modular units (I can't recall at the moment what they're called)

TigerDdirect is a good place to look for parts and peripherals.

One thing about buying a premade system is you get a valid XP license. I've discovered you might be able to build a hot rod a little cheaper than you could buy one but then you have to lay out anout $180 for XP or $90 for the upgrade version.

I've heard (don't really know) that Dell and the others don't give you an XP disc anymore. They give you some kind of restore disc with an image of your drive as it shipped. If that's true it's a bunch of crap. I'd demand an original disc. In days past when I ordered a new machine the first thing I did was fdisk the drive and reinstall the OS as I saw fit.

It's fun spending someone else's money. 

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

A good point that was made was the possible need for a new power supply, if you are planning on using a SATA hd. The drive you listed does not use the old standard power connector. Just as it does not use the old time ribbon cable, so it doesn't use the old power connector either. You can get adapters, but of course then that is a an added expense. The inside of the case is much cleaner however.

If you are sure the power supply is going to work and you want to keep it, considering how you use your computer, 350 watts will probably be ok. If you don't need an extremely power hungry video card you will probably be ok. If you get a mb with a PCIe slot, as I have compared them, these cards don't seem to be as power hungry. With your needs a much more plain jane video card will do the job, and will work with 350 watts.

The first time I built a computer I thought a case was a case. The one I bought required me to remove every card every time I needed to change memory, the cpu, or a drive. Only keep the case if you really like it.

And as has been mentioned, unless you have a lot of parts to reuse, do you really want to build one yourself? You can find deals that easily rival buying the parts and screwing them together.


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## Shappyss (Jun 26, 2004)

lazaruspup said:


> 4 or 5 years old? You couldn't possibly be using a homebrew system from 2000? I think in 2000 I had an Athlon T-Bird running 1.2GHZ and a Mac Dual G4 running 550's. You can not plan 5 years ahead. 1 or 2 is possible, but not 4 or 5. With the rate of acceleration of technology, PCI-X and 3.2GHZ will be another small blip in 2010.


Theirs nothing wrong with computers from 4 or 5 years ago for a basic user. I didn't build mine myself but it is from 5 years ago with an Athlon 800 MHz and 128MB of ram. I still want a new one so that I can have the best out there but I don't need one. Their is no reason to say that a PC has to have at least 3 GHz processesor unless your are into exteme gaming or video editing. I've had to format the hard drive a few times to revive it but other than that I can surf the internet and use word processor at the same speed as brand new computer @ 3.8 GHz HT 8GB of ram... ok maybe I have to wait a second longer for internet explorer to load... but overal it isn't much better


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

A good measure of what to put in your computer is go to a big box retail store, grab five random pieces of software, recent titles if possible and compare the system requirements. If your specs meet or exceed all but maybe one, you are good to go.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

cdru said:


> From what it sounds, you just need a typical computer with a decent processor. Is there a reason why you are looking at building your own other the the "geek factor"? The reason why I ask is that any more a prebuilt computer can be had for less then you can build it piece-wise.
> 
> I recently purchased a computer for my parents. It had a 2.53GB Celeron processor, 256MB of ECC memory, 160GB SATA drive, 8MB integrated video card, a CD-Rom drive, and a great case. Basically everything to run the computer except a floppy drive, sound card, and OS. Using the lowest pricewatch price for everything, I get $113 for mobo/proc, $23 for the memory, $75 for the hard drive, $10 for the CD-ROM drive. So I'm already up to $221 and I still don't have a case/power supply or shipping to get everything to me.
> 
> ...


IF you use pricewatch you can build it cheaper i have not found a machine in an ad that i could not duplicate for less buy the way i have a celeron d whitch is the prescott core i bought it for 89 bucks at 2.24 but i overclocked it using an asus p4s800mx board at 3.467 stock cooler and it runs flawsess


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

kwajr said:


> IF you use pricewatch you can build it cheaper i have not found a machine in an ad that i could not duplicate for less buy the way i have a celeron d whitch is the prescott core i bought it for 89 bucks at 2.24 but i overclocked it using an asus p4s800mx board at 3.467 stock cooler and it runs flawsess


For the average consumer though, this is too much to try and consider for them to do. I know that when overclocking first became big with the Athlons and such, I tried it and fried two processors in the process. Also if you need support, its a pain to have to call several different manufacturers to try and figure something out that has gone wrong. I say that unless you have a good general knowledge, go with a box system, otherwise give it a go and have fun.


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

lazaruspup said:


> For the average consumer though, this is too much to try and consider for them to do. I know that when overclocking first became big with the Athlons and such, I tried it and fried two processors in the process. Also if you need support, its a pain to have to call several different manufacturers to try and figure something out that has gone wrong. I say that unless you have a good general knowledge, go with a box system, otherwise give it a go and have fun.


I would agree but the new motherboards make it very eay i just tell mine the multiplier and it adjust the voltage and freq for mem and gpu


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## mini1 (Jan 25, 2004)

lazaruspup said:


> mini1 said:
> 
> 
> > I've done that many times, and not only does the computer outlast most others, it holds it's value better, and is still cool, even at 4 or 5 years old.
> ...


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

Alright...I think I found "my baby"...let me know what everyone things...might order tomorrow or Saturday.

Pentium® 4 Processor 630 with HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB)	
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2x512M)	1GB4	
Wireless Keyboard and Optical Mouse	
New 17 in E173FP Analog Flat Panel	5
128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE	
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive(7200RPM)w/ Native Command Queuing
Integrated Gigabit Ethernet
Modem	56K PCI Data/Fax Modem	DFAX	
Adobe Software	Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
16X DVD-ROM Drive 
Integrated 5.1 Channel Audio	
Productivity Software	WordPerfect®, Powerful Word Processing

I'll probably dump XP home and put XP Pro on it w/ office (total of about $17 at the University bookstore). I'll probably also put my CR burner into the other slot for now and then once I buy a duel layer DVD burner I'll put that in it's place.

It will be right around $800 bucks shipped when I get all the coupons applied.

I'm torn between that and this computer


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

:up: Not too shabby N8. If you're going with DSl or cable modem I'd delete the 56K modem for safety reasons.

It has an awesome processor, video card and ram. Is it a Dell? Right now a decent dual layer DVD burner can be had for about $70.


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

Yeah, it's a dell. I added my other choice to the list....I'm trying to see what Dell can do. I really do like the HP system I linked, though...but know and trust Dell a lot more. 

Dell is $842 (right now...still looking for the coupon I started the other thread for)

HP will be $1145 (with tax..get in store) - 200 =~$945


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

I got a brand new Dell catalog in the mail yesterday. I'll see if I can find the code for you - if someone doesn't beat me to it.


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## ibglowin (Sep 10, 2002)

I would spring for the DVD writer for sure. Even if you don't ever use it to make DVD's you can use it to back up files etc.


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## lazaruspup (Mar 18, 2005)

A dvd writer has been my saving grace twice in a pinch. My friends customer music collection was at risk of being lost and I was able to put his drive in my PC and burn a 2 discs of it. Second instance, one of my students needed to transport several gigs of movie clips to school so I again was able to get his hd, make an image and then burn him a few discs.


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## djlong (Jul 8, 2002)

A couple of friends of mine *occasionally* seem to have problems with some non-standard component that HP seems to put into some of their computers. Normally it's not an issue unless you're trying to install WIndows clean from a CD *other* than the one HP sent you.

Evidently some parts need custom drivers and, while they're on the HP disk, they wouldn't be on the MS disk. I've also heard this from the local pc shop where I buy my components (www.showtime-pc.com)


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## Bama Mac (May 12, 2004)

We have used Dell at work for over 2 years now and have had no major problems with them at all, before switching to Dell we had Gateway and they would crash all the time.

Good Luck with your purchase sounds like a very good system spec wise, very close to a Sony Viao desktop pc I bought several weeks ago. I love my new Sony.


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

Well, I just pulled the trigger. Thanks for all the help. This is what I ended up with for $844....($1294+tax - coupons)

=Dimension 8400
-Intel P4 630 w/ HT (3GHz, 800FSB)
-1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2X512)
-160GB SATA HD (7200RPM) w/ NCQ
-128MB PCI Express x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon x300 SE
-16X DVD-ROM (looking to get a dual layer DVD burner, also)
-wireless keyboard and optical mouse (if you saw the fights I had with my mouse you'd understand)
-Integrated Gigabit Ethernet
-Integrated 5.1 Channel Audio
-17in Flat Panel monitor (I guess I'll put this on my other computer once I clean it)
-Belkin SurgeMaster Gold -10 outlet w/ Coax (I have 2 outlets and a surge protector filled right now..figured it was the smart thing to do)

Thanks again for all the help!

EDIT: the dual layer DVD burner w/ lightscribe will be another thread, another day


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

djlong said:


> A couple of friends of mine *occasionally* seem to have problems with some non-standard component that HP seems to put into some of their computers. Normally it's not an issue unless you're trying to install WIndows clean from a CD *other* than the one HP sent you.
> 
> Evidently some parts need custom drivers and, while they're on the HP disk, they wouldn't be on the MS disk. I've also heard this from the local pc shop where I buy my components (www.showtime-pc.com)


I recently bought two HP a830n's & an a820n. Its only been a couple of months so far, but I have had no problems, and the drivers are easily accessible from the HP site, with notice of updated drivers done automatically. Your post made me think that it wouldn't be a problem to download all the original, an updated drivers, and burn them on a cd. Then I'll always have them.

Congratulations on your purchase GR8T Master. Very similar to what I have in the a830n, except I have the DVD burner and still need the video card to put in my PCIe slot.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

djlong said:


> A couple of friends of mine *occasionally* seem to have problems with some non-standard component that HP seems to put into some of their computers. Normally it's not an issue unless you're trying to install WIndows clean from a CD *other* than the one HP sent you.
> 
> Evidently some parts need custom drivers and, while they're on the HP disk, they wouldn't be on the MS disk. I've also heard this from the local pc shop where I buy my components (www.showtime-pc.com)


100% CORRECT! Also applies to all Compaq, various Gateway, and older Dell PCs. I haven't seen any troubles with the newer Dells that are in a standard case - the mini-clamshell types are a different story.


ntextasdude said:


> ... If you're going with DSl or cable modem I'd delete the 56K modem for safety reasons. ...


Huh? A modem without a phone line is about as safe as it gets - and you still have a backup connection if needed.


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

SimpleSimon said:


> Huh? A modem without a phone line is about as safe as it gets - and you still have a backup connection if needed.


Okay, I digress, it was a mild case of rectal-cranial inversion. Leave the modem in but just don't plug a line with a dial tone into it. I built my box myself and never bothered installing a modem because I read too many horror stories about modem hijacking. I never needed dial up backup because my DSL has been 99.999% reliable in the 4 years I've had it.

Simon, I'm always glad to have you around to correct any erroneous information.


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## n8dagr8 (Aug 14, 2004)

I don't have a working land-line anyway...haven't had one for about 2 1/2 yrs.


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## Bogy (Mar 23, 2002)

When I do use dial up, I always use an external modem. That way I can watch the pretty lights to see what is going on, and I can turn it off when I don't need it.


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