# Whole-Home DVR upgrade



## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Just got off the phone with DirecTV. Called to price out WHDVR only to find out it is free.

Here is what we currently have:
3 HD DVRs (1 each 20/21/22)
2 SD DVRs (two older units; both owned).

CSR said "Special deal right now that I don't see too often. We'll replace both of your old SD DVRs with R22s. Free. We'll also send you one HD DVR and one HD receiver. Free. CCK. Free. Install. Free."

We don't need two new hookups, so I asked if we can get just one R22 to replace one SD DVR, use the HD DVR for the other SD DVR and then one new install where we'll use the HD receiver.

"No problem. Total install cost $0. Two year commitment and $9 per month (1 new receiver and whole-home DVR service)".

Then I thought, what the heck; great CSR on the phone, might as well ask: "How about Red Zone for free?" "Yes, it is only available on certain accounts, but you qualify."

When I called last Nov/Dec for whole-home DVR, it was $199 and that didn't include two new HD units.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Good deal. Of course part of me is wondering if the installer will show up with an R16 and not a 22.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Good question. He specifically stated 3 total receivers would be installed (new HD DVR, new HD Receiver and R22 replacement for SD DVR). The second CSR I had to talk to for confirmation repeated the same equipment. But reading the confirmation on my account isn't that clear. It has:



> STMS Comment for Promotional Offer Free 1 Free
> Whole-Home DVR Service $3.00 1 $3.00
> Nudge Offer Tracking Free 1 Free
> *DIRECTV® DVR - MRV Swap Free 1 Free*
> ...


I'm assuming the "DIRECTV® DVR - MRV Swap" is the R22.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

What SD DVR do you have now? R15? Generally when someone gets supported MRV, any R10s and R15s get swapped out for an R16 as the others are not SWM compatible. The R16 is SWM compatible but isn't part of the MRV system. The R22 is a special case, it's an SD receiver that can do HD on an account with a existing HD receiver. It will participate in MRV but DirecTV requires you have two true HD receivers in addition to the R22 for MRV.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Yes, it is an R15. The CSR specifically said R22 (I know: they can't promise any specific model). If I get an R16, will that unit/TV then not be part of the MRV? My router is next to my R15 and that is where I was going to have them hook up the CCK. Will this still work?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Yes, it is an R15. The CSR specifically said R22 (I know: they can't promise any specific model). If I get an R16, will that unit/TV then not be part of the MRV? My router is next to my R15 and that is where I was going to have them hook up the CCK. Will this still work?


Correct. Only an H/HR can play in MRV land. D & R series, with the lone exception of the R22, need not apply.

That CSR might as well have given you the next lotto drawing numbers. They would have had the same chance of coming true as the promise of the R22.

You currently are at 5 receivers. The way they have the order setup, you will be going to 6. Is that what you want? If so, do nothing and roll the dice on a R22 being on the guys truck. Good luck with that. 

If not, still do nothing. Replace 1 SD DVR with the "new" one (it may be a new HR24, could be a refurb 20-24), replace the other SD DVR with the H series he will bring. All 5 boxes will have access to MRV, just one location wont have direct record ability. No biggie. Just have the tech remove the SD DVR from the work order when he gets there, unless, by some freak chance he has a R22 and you want a 6th box.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

You guys are starting to rain on my parade. 

So the "DirecTV DVR - MRV Swap" doesn't mean I'll get a MRV capable unit?

The intent was for 6 boxes all on MRV, but I will survive if it doesn't happen. You make it sound like the odds of the truck having an R22 as slim or none.


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

If the only SD-DVR that can handle Whole-Home is the R22...wouldn't that mean his order item stating "DIRECTV® DVR - MRV Swap Free 1 Free" would ensure that model?


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> ...You make it sound like the odds of the truck having an R22 as slim or none.


RobertE would know better than any of us, but if you get an R22 you may want to play the next lotto :lol:


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

Justin23 said:


> If the only SD-DVR that can handle Whole-Home is the R22...wouldn't that mean his order item stating "DIRECTV® DVR - MRV Swap Free 1 Free" would ensure that model?


It means that a DVR will be installed that will be compatible with a WHDVR. It does not mean that it will be WHDVR capable. Essentially they're swapping a non SWM DVR for a SWM compatible one which is an R16 or R22. However the R22's are fairly uncommon compared to R16s.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dsw2112 said:


> RobertE would know better than any of us, but if you get an R22 you may want to play the next lotto :lol:


Actually, I felt so lucky about getting all this today for free (including the Red Zone), I splurged and bought one Powerball ticket tonight.


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## Justin23 (Jan 11, 2008)

Shades228 said:


> It means that a DVR will be installed that will be *compatible* with a WHDVR. It does not mean that it will be WHDVR *capable*.


That's not the same thing?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

Justin23 said:


> That's not the same thing?


Nope. By saying it is compatible with WHDVR, means that the receiver is really SWM capable. A SWM capable receiver may or may not be WHDVR capable.

- Merg


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

For dual tuners to work on the R16/R22: one or two cables?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> For dual tuners to work on the R16/R22: one or two cables?


Since both are SWiM compatible, "one"


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## twowheelchopper (Sep 1, 2009)

My question is the Red Zone Channel for free??? I thought you could only get it with the NFL package.


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## larcar (Sep 22, 2006)

trh said:


> Just got off the phone with DirecTV. Called to price out WHDVR only to find out it is free.
> 
> Here is what we currently have:
> 3 HD DVRs (1 each 20/21/22)
> ...


I currently have whdvr that I also got for free back when they first came out with it. I called to see if I could get this for my daughter and they will not give it to her for free even though she has been with Directv for 8 or more years. She would get one receiver free and have to pay $99.00 for another one. Also pay $199.00 for install kit but would get free installation. You got a great deal. I wish I would have talked to the same csr maybe things would have been different.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

There is another thread dealing with this discussion. (hard for me to provide the link right now. Sorry) just read the last 2 pages on that thread for the relevant information.


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## larcar (Sep 22, 2006)

trh said:


> There is another thread dealing with this discussion. (hard for me to provide the link right now. Sorry) just read the last 2 pages on that thread for the relevant information.


I looked but could not find what you are referring to. Thanks anyway!


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> There is another thread dealing with this discussion. (hard for me to provide the link right now. Sorry) just read the last 2 pages on that thread for the relevant information.





larcar said:


> I looked but could not find what you are referring to. Thanks anyway!


This might be it: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=177934


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

That's the link. Last two pages deal with 2011 season. 

Thanks VOS (x 2).


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## whitepine (Jul 21, 2011)

Newbie here, technically challenged and so glad to have found this site.

trh--i just called Directv re: Whole-Home service, and the charge for the upgrade is $199 + $49 installation. Any idea how you qualified for the no-charge upgrade? I have been a Directv customer since 1999, and have 5 HR22 and 1 HR21 receivers. 

I don't understand why the upgrade is so expensive, especially as I can control the receivers through my iPhone, so am obviously internet connected. Is this something someone with limited technical background can do themselves? 

Thanks for your help.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

whitepine said:


> Newbie here, technically challenged and so glad to have found this site.
> 
> trh--i just called Directv re: Whole-Home service, and the charge for the upgrade is $199 + $49 installation. Any idea how you qualified for the no-charge upgrade? I have been a Directv customer since 1999, and have 5 HR22 and 1 HR21 receivers.
> 
> ...


What you were quoted is "the standard upgrade" [price]. This can entail changing out the LNB/multi-switch to a SWiM, reconfigure your wiring, change out any receivers not compatible with SWiM, and adding the DECAs and any filters as needed.
Now you should know about "CSR roulette", as if you call three times, you may get at least four different answers.  :lol:
"It never hurts" to call again and say you're interested, but can they do it for a better price, or offer programing credits, etc.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

Well you can use the ruse of moving on in order to work out a better deal with thw DirecTV Retention Dept. They usually sweeten the pie.


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## whitepine (Jul 21, 2011)

Thanks, everyone. Sounds like purchasing and installing components myself may be beyond my abilities. I guess I'll just keep calling from time to time and hope I get lucky. 

Thanks again!


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

whitepine said:


> trh--i just called Directv re: Whole-Home service, and the charge for the upgrade is $199 + $49 installation. Any idea how you qualified for the no-charge upgrade? I have been a Directv customer since 1999, and have 5 HR22 and 1 HR21 receivers.


I asked what the criteria was but my CSR didn't respond.

I've been a member since 1998, Total Choice Plus package, one sports package since 1998-1999 season (NHLCI), HD Access, I am off contract, pay with autopay (and getting the $10 credit) and currently have five DVRs (3HD/2SD). I can't remember the last "freebie" I've received (other than 3 months free of some channels I never watched for my anniversary gift).

I didn't talk with retention and didn't even suggest I was thinking of leaving. It was a "I'm thinking about getting MRV installed. What does that entail and how much will it cost?" conversation.

I'd call back and talk with another CSR.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Another question. I have a WB68 switch and I think I might need a new LNB. Neither one was on my order from DirecTV. Is that something that needs to be updated or will the installer know and have the required equipment with him?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Another question. I have a WB68 switch and I think I might need a new LNB. Neither one was on my order from DirecTV. Is that something that needs to be updated or will the installer know and have the required equipment with him?


You'll be converted to SWiM, which does away with the WB68, and gets a new LNB.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Thanks for the quick response. 

Should I be concerned that it isn't on the order?


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> You'll be converted to SWiM, which does away with the WB68, and gets a new LNB.


From the first post it looks like the OP will be over 8 tuners, so it looks like the WB68 will get swapped for a SWM16 -- same LNB.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> Thanks for the quick response.
> 
> Should I be concerned that it isn't on the order?


In general no, you shouldn't. You're over 8 tuners though, and that requires a SWM16; those are a bit harder to come by. There have been stories of techs arriving without a SWM16 and having to reschedule the call. Hopefully you will not run into that situation.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dsw2112 said:


> From the first post it looks like the OP will be over 8 tuners, so it looks like the WB68 will get swapped for a SWM16 -- same LNB.


Well if he has a WB68, then he isn't using more than eight tuners. :lol:


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

VOS is correct. We're using 8 tuners right now (HR20 with 2, HR21 with 2, R15 with 2, Tivo with 1 and R22 with 1). 

But with MRV we'll use 6 for the DVRs and 1 for the router; 7 total. Correct?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> VOS is correct. We're using 8 tuners right now (*HR20 with 2*, *HR21 with 2*,* R15 with 2*, Tivo with 1 and* R22 with 1*).
> 
> But with MRV we'll use 6 for the DVRs and 1* for the router* < doesn't count as a tuner if you're talking about DECA; 7 total. Correct?



The R15 needs to be an R16 [or HD DVR] and the Tivo must go away.

I count 8
HR20 2
HR21 2
R22 2
R15/16 2
no Tivo


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Yes, replacing the R15 with SD (CSR said R22, but probably R16).
Tivo being replaced with new HD DVR.

But with SWiM/MRV, we'll be able to use only 1 cable per box, correct?

Does the router require a dedicated cable?

Does the replacement for the WB68 and LNB need to be on the work order?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Yes, replacing the R15 with SD (CSR said R22, but probably R16).*
> Tivo being replaced with new HD DVR.
> *
> But with SWiM/MRV, we'll be able to use only 1 cable per box, correct?
> ...


This would bring your total count to 10 tuners, so [you'll be screwed :lol:] a SWiM-16 is a must.
All receivers will work with a single coax, and you may need another run near your router for the CCK [DECA to router].

So if they do show up with a SWiM-16 and your LNB is bad, they'll need to replace it too [with a non SWiM LNB, like you have now].


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> VOS is correct. We're using 8 tuners right now (HR20 with 2, HR21 with 2, R15 with 2, Tivo with 1 and R22 with 1).
> 
> But with MRV we'll use 6 for the DVRs and 1 for the router; 7 total. Correct?


It doesn't matter how many tuners you actually use, it matters how many tuners you have. D* must count 2 tuners per DVR (whether you use them or not.) Hence why you'll need a SWM16. A router does not count as a tuner.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dsw2112 said:


> It doesn't matter how many tuners you actually use, it matters how many tuners you have. D* must count 2 tuners per DVR (whether you use them or not.) Hence why you'll need a SWM16. * A router does not count as a tuner.*


Nor does any DECA. :lol:


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

So that is why my work order lists the 5 current receivers (so the installer knows total number).

But I count 12 tuners:
HR20, HR21, HR22, R15 Replacement, Tivo replacement (new HR??) and new HD R?.

VOS - your "you'll be screwed" comment -- are they not going to have a SWiM16? 

I thought I understood this.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> So that is why my work order lists the 5 current receivers (so the installer knows total number).
> 
> But I count 12 tuners:
> HR20, HR21, HR22, R15 Replacement, Tivo replacement (new HR??) and new HD R?.
> ...


HR20 -- 2 tuners
HR21 -- 2 tuners
HR22 -- 2 tuners
R15 replacement -- 2 tuners
Tivo Replacement -- 2 tuners
HD Receiver -- 1 tuner

Total = 11

I think VOS was just joking, and basically saying "make sure you get a SWM16!"


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dsw2112 said:


> HD Receiver -- 1 tuner


My bust. We haven't had a non-DVR unit in so long, I forgot they only have one tuner. Thanks.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

dsw2112 said:


> I think VOS was just joking, and basically saying "make sure you get a SWM16!"


"Close" :lol:
I would guess it may be a bit of a run-a-round to get the SWiM-16, but it's the only way to do this, so.....


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> My bust. We haven't had a non-DVR unit in so long, I forgot they only have one tuner. Thanks.


You may want to re-think this, because once you have the Whole Home DVR service, you may not want any receiver that doesn't connect to it.
The R-15 or R-16 won't be part of it and you may find that a "mere" HD receiver would work better for you, as you'll be able to watch live TV, AND watch recording from the DVRs, "just like" you were using a DVR.

I have my DVRs setup to record and do most of my viewing from a receiver.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> "Close" :lol:
> I would guess it may be a bit of a run-a-round to get the SWiM-16, but it's the only way to do this, so.....


Good thing I don't read minds for a living :lol:

OP -- Just make sure they have a SWM16 before starting. If not, don't let them begin -- reschedule immediately. There's no other "approved" solution for your setup, so don't let the tech talk you out of it. Hopefully you won't find yourself in this position.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I hope the tech calls before the install date (Aug 3rd). I'll ask about the SWiM16 and possible LNB.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> You may want to re-think this, because once you have the Whole Home DVR service, you may not want any receiver that doesn't connect to it.
> The R-15 or R-16 won't be part of it and you may find that a "mere" HD receiver would work better for you, as you'll be able to watch live TV, AND watch recording from the DVRs, "just like" you were using a DVR.
> 
> I have my DVRs setup to record and do most of my viewing from a receiver.


That was my first thought when they offered me "R22" replacements for our 2 SD DVRs AND two new boxes (HD DVR and HD receiver). I thought we'd just use the two new ones and cancel their SD replacements. But then my wife "suggested" that the guest room that has a TV only using OTA and that she has been using for an office should be hooked up with the HD receiver.

So going back to my first plan isn't viable right now; I don't want to be sleeping in that guest room for the foreseeable future.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> That was my first thought when they offered me "R22" replacements for our 2 SD DVRs AND two new boxes (HD DVR and HD receiver). I thought we'd just use the two new ones and cancel their SD replacements. But then my wife "suggested" that the guest room that has a TV only using OTA and that she has been using for an office should be hooked up with the HD receiver.
> 
> So going back to my first plan isn't viable right now; I don't want to be sleeping in that guest room for the foreseeable future.


I would look first at how many DVRs you need. I have two [for me] and one [for her]. I would then add HD receivers to anyplace that has a TV [and not a DVR].
"Six tuners" for recording works for my needs.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

There is one issue with this that I'm having a hard time understanding.

I understand I'll have 11 tuners after the install. But all the drawings I've seen show only one cable going to each box, so why a SWiM16 and not a SWiM8? (I'll have 6 boxes plus one router; 7 total)

Is there a difference in signals that the two send and only the 16 can drive my 11 tuners?



veryoldschool said:


> All receivers will work with a single coax, and you may need another run near your router for the CCK [DECA to router].


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Each TUNER, not each DVR requires an SWM channel. An SWM8 can feed a maximum of 4 DVRs (which is 8 tuners). SWM technology can feed two tuners over a single coax, but it is still TWO tuners.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> There is one issue with this that I'm having a hard time understanding.
> 
> I understand I'll have 11 tuners after the install. But all the drawings I've seen show only one cable going to each box, so why a SWiM16 and not a SWiM8? (I'll have 6 boxes plus one router; 7 total)
> 
> Is there a difference in signals that the two send and only the 16 can drive my 11 tuners?


Maybe a better understanding of what a SWiM does, would help.
SWiM acts like a "pre-tuner" for your receivers. It is based on serving eight tuners on one cable.
The SWiM-16 has two [8 tuner] outputs.
The single cable gets split as needed to feed the eight tuners.
As Carl said: DVRs, with both tuners active, use 2 and a receiver [only has one tuner] uses one.
You can "mix and match" tuners, but can't exceed 8 on any of the SWiM outputs.
DECA/router isn't a tuner, so all DECA units have ZERO effect on the SWiM tuner count.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe a better understanding of what a SWiM does, would help.
> SWiM acts like a "pre-tuner" for your receivers. It is based on serving eight tuners on one cable.
> The SWiM-16 has two [8 tuner] outputs.
> The single cable gets split as needed to feed the eight tuners.
> ...


This is an unabashed post pad. This is my 12,000th post and, keeping with tradition, I send it to you. Along with my thanx for all the help over the years.

Rich


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Now I understand the reason why SWM16 instead of SWM8. Thanks Carl6 and VOS. 

One more question (and I hope the final regarding this upgrade). 

Will my router need it's own cable? VOS, you said it might need one. I currently have 2 cables running to the room with my R15 (soon to be R16/R22). My router is about 18" away from the R15. If one cable can be used for the replacement DVR, I'd like to use the other for the new HD Receiver we're getting installed. It will save the installer from having to do any new runs.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Now I understand the reason why SWM16 instead of SWM8. Thanks Carl6 and VOS.
> 
> One more question (and I hope the final regarding this upgrade).
> 
> Will my router need it's own cable? VOS, you said it might need one. I currently have 2 cables running to the room with my R15 (soon to be R16/R22). My router is about 18" away from the R15. If one cable can be used for the replacement DVR, I'd like to use the other for the new HD Receiver we're getting installed. It will save the installer from having to do any new runs.


There are several ways to get your router connected.
One is to run a coax from the main splitter.
One is to add a 2-way splitter to a coax being used and feed both a receiver and the CCK.
"Another" is to use the new wireless CCK [which can also be wired to your router], which has a "pass through" mode, where you don't need a splitter to connect it where a receiver is.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Again, thanks for your help and guidance. 
___________________________

And not completely on topic here, but DirecTV needs to do more training with their CSRs. The CSR who set this up said my two replacement SD DVRs would be "R22" four times during our conversation. Then he transferred me to another rep who wanted to confirm my order (and "Sir, this conversation is being recorded"). That rep said I'd receive an "R22" twice.

But we all know that I'll get whatever the installer has on his truck on my install day.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Again, thanks for your help and guidance.
> ___________________________
> 
> And not completely on topic here, but DirecTV needs to do more training with their CSRs. The CSR who set this up said my two replacement SD DVRs would be "R22" four times during our conversation. Then he transferred me to another rep who wanted to confirm my order (and "Sir, this conversation is being recorded"). That rep said I'd receive an "R22" twice.
> ...


Since the R22 works with MRV, I'd "leverage this" during the install to make sure [or try to] get receivers that work with MRV.
They might just have to leave some 24s :lol:


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Maybe a better understanding of what a SWiM does, would help.
> SWiM acts like a "pre-tuner" for your receivers. It is based on serving eight tuners on one cable.
> The SWiM-16 has two [8 tuner] outputs.
> The single cable gets split as needed to feed the eight tuners.
> ...


Installer is here right now. Has a SWiM16 with him (it was on his work order as such) but he is calling it in to change it to an 8. Says I'll only have 6 wires and only need an 8. I'm calling DirecTV.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Just got off the phone with DirecTV technical services. Initially they said "16" is required because of 11 tuners. So I handed the phone to the installer. He told them that there was only going to be 6 wires going to the receivers, so only an 8 is required.

The CSR backed down (after talking with some other techs) and told me to have him install the 8 and if that doesn't work, put in the 16. 

Based on what everyone has said here, the 8 won't work. What do I need to look for when I verify the operation? Will this be easy to check (like no channels working) or will it only impact certain channels?


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

Your installer is an idiot, as you said it's the number of tuners, not wires, that determine what's needed. You need a SWiM16, and put no more then 8 tuners on each output, you can't put all 11 on one output. IIRC one or more boxes should fail their installation test due to lack of SWiM channels. You can also test, go to each HD DVR and start double play and tune to two different channels on each tuner in each receiver, you should eventually get a no sat signal error message.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Installer just came back inside. "I made a mistake -- you do need a SWiM16 because you have 5 DVRs and 1 receiver for a total of 11 tuners". 

Exactly what I told him before. 

He is switching it back now. Probably about an hour delay and additional work outside for him in the 94 degree heat (105 heat index). 

Note: I previously showed him this email thread and had him read both posts on this this topic from VOS and Carl6. He still insisted on SWiM8.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Rad's got the right idea. Get each DVR in DP mode, and use a receiver [if you have one] and go into the setup screen and to the SWM page.
The first "TP" is the guide data [common to all] and the next eight are the SWM channels. You'll need to see something more than zero, or the receiver you're using won't have its own channel to work. Every zero comes from another receiver/DVR using that channel.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Installer just came back inside. "I made a mistake -- you do need a SWiM16 because you have 5 DVRs and 1 receiver for a total of 11 tuners".
> 
> Exactly what I told him before.
> 
> ...


So now he knows. 
SWiM-16s aren't used very much, so he isn't up to speed.

BTW: 11 tuners can be connected to a SWM8, BUT!!!!!! three of them must be NON SWiM, SD tuners connected to the three legacy ports.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Understand about the SWiM8, but that isn't what we're doing, so I won't even bring it up with this guy. He is very apologetic; "Mr. H, you told me I needed to use the 16 and that you had 11 tuners, but it didn't register with me. But I will make it right."

I gave him 2 bottles of water and a Gatorade and sent him back outside.

Edit: the 16 was on his work order. Why wouldn't he just install that?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Understand about the SWiM8, but that isn't what we're doing, so I won't even bring it up with this guy. He is very apologetic; "Mr. H, you told me I needed to use the 16 and that you had 11 tuners, but it didn't register with me. But I will make it right."
> 
> I gave him 2 bottles of water and a Gatorade and sent him back outside.
> 
> Edit: the 16 was on his work order.* Why wouldn't he just install that?*


You wouldn't ask this if you knew their "training" [or lack there of].


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> Note: I previously showed him this email thread and had him read both posts on this this topic from VOS and Carl6. He still insisted on SWiM8.


You should have showed him the post by DSW :lol:



dsw2112 said:


> Good thing I don't read minds for a living :lol:
> 
> OP -- Just make sure they have a SWM16 before starting. If not, don't let them begin -- reschedule immediately. There's no other "approved" solution for your setup, so *don't let the tech talk you out of it*. Hopefully you won't find yourself in this position.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> You wouldn't ask this if you knew their "training" [or lack there of].


The tech just received his "training" from the customer :lol:


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

installer still here. having a problem with one SD DVR. 

But question on my HR21-100. He has it wired like the other. Just 1 deca going to SAT 1. No 2-way splitter. seems to be working. but that isn't right, is it?


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

trh said:


> installer still here. having a problem with one SD DVR.
> 
> But question on my HR21-100. He has it wired like the other. Just 1 deca going to SAT 1. No 2-way splitter. seems to be working. but that isn't right, is it?


You might be thinking about the HR20-100, which needs an extra splitter and band stop filter when connecting a DECA to it.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Yes, I'm sorry (we have 1 each of HR20, HR21, HR22; so I've been getting confused).

But on our HR20-100, he only has the Deca and ethernet. No splitter or 2nd RG6 going to SAT2.

I showed him the drawings from here -- "never heard of this before and it isn't required". 

So what won't work if it isn't wired properly. It is currently recording two shows just fine.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

The issue is that the white DECA isn't powered correctly when only connected to SAT-1 on the HR20-100. I'm not sure if you get yellow lights instead of green on the DECA, or it may just be that the networking doesn't work at all.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

he hasn't activated the whole home with directv yet, so we have yet to test that function.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

"trh" said:


> Yes, I'm sorry (we have 1 each of HR20, HR21, HR22; so I've been getting confused).
> 
> But on our HR20-100, he only has the Deca and ethernet. No splitter or 2nd RG6 going to SAT2.
> 
> ...


Just because he hasn't heard of it doesn't make him right, the HR20-100 needs the "special" setup just using port 1 doesn't work.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

trh said:


> Yes, I'm sorry (we have 1 each of HR20, HR21, HR22; so I've been getting confused).
> 
> But on our HR20-100, he only has the Deca and ethernet. No splitter or 2nd RG6 going to SAT2.
> 
> ...


To get the DECA to function, with the HR20-100, it needs to be connected like one of these ways:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=177195


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

I showed him the print outs. "never heard of it." he call his supervisor. "never heard of it." Then I pointed out previous posts where the reason for this is to power the Deca (not provide for the 2 tuners). He said "interesting" and called his supervisor back. Then it was "oh yes, we do have a drawing on that, but only for the HR20-100". 

But he said he doesn't have another splitter with him so he'll have to come back. Of course the R16 (yep, no R22) he brought doesn't work at all, and they don't have any other ones in town, so they aren't sure when that will be fixed.

This is why I HATE making changes to my system. It is never easy.


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

Veryoldschool,

If there were two lines originally going to the HR20-100, couldn't both of those lines be attached to the same 1x8 SWM splitter in the new setup? Then attach one line to the white DECA (DECA to SAT-2) and the other line to a Band Stop Filter then to SAT-1? Then you shouldn't need a 1x2 splitter.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

David Ortiz said:


> Veryoldschool,
> 
> If there were two lines originally going to the HR20-100, couldn't both of those lines be attached to the same 1x8 SWM splitter in the new setup? Then attach one line to the white DECA (DECA to SAT-2) and the other line to a Band Stop Filter then to SAT-1? Then you shouldn't need a 1x2 splitter.


Kind of the "long way" lol to do it, but it wouldn't be any different than using a 2-way at the receiver.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Supervisor showed up at 6:30 pm (6.5 hours into the upgrade). He had the BSF and splitter. He also had the approved diagram to give the tech to do the install for the HR20-100.

After that was solved, no internet connection on HR20-100. Two issues: First I had previously had a wireless router that I was using and I had had to set some unique IP addresses to make that work. So I suggested we reset the IP addresses to default. Second -- he had the ethernet plugged into the wrong port. So after fixing those two issues, it is working.

R16 was DOA. Wouldn't even display the menu. Super said they "may" get one in tomorrow. I told him I'd take an R22; he said he hasn't seen one of those in months.

Our HR22 has "communicating with sat" error 771B. 

Back tomorrow with replacement DVR and to fix HR22 problem. Although the cabling checks out, he said he may rerun the wire to that room.

Tech left at 8:17 PM. Total time 8 hours 20 minutes. And still not fulling functioning. It has been a long and frustrating day. Time for a beer.

THANKS all to who have helped. (I maybe back tomorrow with more questions).


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

771B. He has too many tuners running off that one swm port. Moving it to the other port/splitter will fix it.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

He has a SWiM16 with one cable running to an 8-way splitter. 5 DVR's and 1 HD Receiver running off that one splitter. 2 spare ports on the 8 way splitter.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

SWM16 has two outputs with 8 tuner limit on each. Move the receiver and 1 DVR to the other port on the SWM16 with a 4 way splitter.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

R16 update. I called DirecTV tonight to activate our Whole Home DVR. Got to talking to the CSR and I explained my frustration with installing WHDVR but that not all of our upgrades would be compatible (R15 upgraded to R16). 

He said "buy another HDDVR or HD Receiver; you're a good customer and I think we can get you a deal." I told him I had just gotten an HR24, H25, WHDVR upgrade (which included a replacement R16) and install all for free; I don't think you guys love me that much. 

He checked. 

HD DVR shipping tomorrow. $19.95 S&H plus tax. 

:eek2: I have to return the R16.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> SWM16 has two outputs with 8 tuner limit on each. Move the receiver and 1 DVR to the other port on the SWM16 with a 4 way splitter.


OH... it is an 8 tuner limit on each output. He is trying to run 11. Got it. (or 2 DVRs to a 2-way splitter?)

Now I have to try and explain that to him. I see a call to his supervisor in the AM (he did leave me his number).


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> OH... it is an 8 tuner limit on each output. He is trying to run 11. Got it.
> 
> Now I have to try and explain that to him. I see a call to his supervisor in the AM (he did leave me his number).


Yep, he's gonna need another splitter for the second SWM16 output. You might wanna call him early to make sure he's got one. I'd also log into DBSTalk before he arrives 

Don't let the tech leave before testing every receiver for dual tuner (doubleplay) and MRV (whole home) functionality. Also, who's going to install the new HDDVR that was ordered? If the coax is in place it will still need a DECA dongle.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

RAD said:


> Your installer is an idiot, as you said it's the number of tuners, not wires, that determine what's needed.* You need a SWiM16, and put no more then 8 tuners on each output, you can't put all 11 on one output.* IIRC one or more boxes should fail their installation test due to lack of SWiM channels. You can also test, go to each HD DVR and start double play and tune to two different channels on each tuner in each receiver, you should eventually get a no sat signal error message.





trh said:


> He has a SWiM16 with one cable running to an 8-way splitter. 5 DVR's and 1 HD Receiver running off that one splitter. 2 spare ports on the 8 way splitter.


Gee, had a feeling this tech was going to do that.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> ...Now I have to try and explain that to him...


Have him read this: http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10396641/SWM%20-%20Integrated%20LNB-ModuleTraining.pdf

He should consider it required reading before his next call....


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

trh said:


> OH... it is an 8 tuner limit on each output. He is trying to run 11. Got it. (or 2 DVRs to a 2-way splitter?)
> 
> Now I have to try and explain that to him. I see a call to his supervisor in the AM (he did leave me his number).


Real simple way to make sure you don't go over 8 tuners per swm output. As long as you have home runs (no secondary splits), never use anything bigger than a 4 way splitter. Makes it impossible to screw up (4 ports x 2 tuners per port = 8 tuners max), plus you as the tech don't have to trace every line. Nice. Simple. Clean. And it will work every single time.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

dsw2112 said:


> Yep, he's gonna need another splitter for the second SWM16 output. You might wanna call him early to make sure he's got one. I'd also log into DBSTalk before he arrives
> 
> Don't let the tech leave before testing every receiver for dual tuner (doubleplay) and MRV (whole home) functionality. Also, who's going to install the new HDDVR that was ordered? If the coax is in place it will still need a DECA dongle.


Yes, I'm calling the supervisor early although the installer isn't scheduled until the PM. My 4 working boxes all have MRV and doubleplay operating right now (although no double play on the H25). But one HR22 has the 771B error and the R16 won't even display a start up menu.

I plan on doing installing the new HDDVR. Coax in place. The CSRs told me that it will automatically ship with a DECA dongle (unless they ship an HR24).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Guess he needs to see this:


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

trh said:


> Yes, I'm calling the supervisor early although the installer isn't scheduled until the PM. My 4 working boxes all have MRV and doubleplay operating right now *(although no double play on the H25)*. But one HR22 has the 771B error and the R16 won't even display a start up menu.
> 
> I plan on doing installing the new HDDVR. Coax in place. The CSRs told me that it will automatically ship with a DECA dongle (unless they ship an HR24).


There isn't a second turner on a H25. Two turners are needed for doubleplay.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> Guess he needs to see this:


Don't today's tech keep field manuals?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Drucifer said:


> Don't today's tech keep field manuals?


"Seems like" even their "stupidvisors" barely know where to find them.


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## Drucifer (Feb 12, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> "Seems like" even their "stupidvisors" barely know where to find them.


That was my problem too. But I knew where they were kept. It was getting the revisions that were a *****. No one would file them.

I suggested that System Practices be store online, and access by any company employee, but at my retirement in '96 that still wasn't done.

And it looks like DirecTV is still in the dark ages too.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Installer is back (I don't like calling him a "tech"). 

** He ran another line off the SWiM16 to another 8-way splitter. 7 tuners on one and 4 on the second splitter. 
**But now none of our receivers are running. 771A error. His supervisor has him running a new direct line to the power inverter/router/R16 drop to see whether there is something with the existing wiring. I'm wondering how that can be because 3 HDDVRs and 1 HD Receiver were working fine last night.

**R16 is running but "sat signal could not be detected"

EDIT - I call the supervisor at 8AM today. Told him that the problem was the 11 tuners running off the 1 SWiM16 port won't work -- 8 tuners per port. He said "realistically they are supposed to able to power 8 DVRs, but I am going to have him split the tuners just to see."


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Another question. In the VOS diagram several post back, it shows the 29VDC going to the middle terminal on the SWiM. That is not how he has it running. Will that make a difference? I have 2 spare cables right now going into the house were he could hook up the power inverter to one of those.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"My guess" is he screwed up the power to the SWiM-16, when he moved the receivers/coax around.

In the diagram, power can be to the middle OR top connector, which IS CLEARLY MARKED on the SWiM-16.
Look for PWR on the connector label. :lol:


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## David Ortiz (Aug 21, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "My guess" is he screwed up the power to the SWiM-16, when he moved the receivers/coax around.
> 
> In the diagram, power can be to the middle OR top connector, which IS CLEARLY MARKED on the SWiM-16.
> Look for PWR on the connector label. :lol:


Assuming the power inserter is still connected to an outlet, it either got disconnected from the power passing port on the original splitter, or that original splitter is now connected to SWM 2 out on the SWiM-16. Until the SWiM-16 is powered, none of the receivers will get a sat signal.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Power was run from the SWiM1/PWR port. He ran a new line (test only -- went in through front door of house). It work fine. So he is now re-running it as a new line. 

I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.


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## Ira Lacher (Apr 24, 2002)

Well, I called. Was told upgrade to WHDVR for nothing. All receivers swapped for HD DVRs for nothing. Added one additional outlet with HD DVR for nothing; all TVs on the whole-home grid, all DVRs with full DVR capacity. Wonderful! Let's do it. 

:joy:

Transferred to verification, where they promptly told me I was not going to get all equipment swapped out for HD DVRs, as the agent said. In fact the SD DVRs I had would get swapped out for only compatible equipment, not DVRs.


:kickbutt:

Transferred to retention. Told me the same thing. Told them I didn't want to be held hostage in my home till the tech came out only to discover I wasn't getting the equipment upgrade the CSR promised me. After getting absolutely nowhere with retention, I canceled the order and told them they had a serious problem either with a CSR who didn't know what he was promising, or a policy of bait and switch. Fuming!


:bang


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Upgrade complete. 
All DVRs working Dual Play and WHDVR. 
H25 working fine and can see/play from the other DVRs. 
R16 working fine also.
Almost 10 hours of onsite time for the installer plus the supervisor was here for 2 hours.


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## Dr_J (Apr 15, 2007)

trh said:


> Upgrade complete.
> All DVRs working Dual Play and WHDVR.
> H25 working fine and can see/play from the other DVRs.
> R16 working fine also.
> Almost 10 hours of onsite time for the installer plus the supervisor was here for 2 hours.


I'm glad you're up and running. 

This is one of the dilemmas I always face when deciding whether or not to upgrade--potentially disrupt a very stable system all in the name of an upgrade. More often than not, there are bumps in the road that make me wish I had never done it, but after a couple of months, the kinks are usually worked out and am glad I did it in the end.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

trh said:


> Upgrade complete.
> All DVRs working Dual Play and WHDVR.
> H25 working fine and can see/play from the other DVRs.
> R16 working fine also.
> Almost 10 hours of onsite time for the installer plus the supervisor was here for 2 hours.


I'm thinking that poor installer must have taken a financial beating on this upgrade.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

TBoneit said:


> I'm thinking that poor installer must have taken a financial beating on this upgrade.


The two hours he worked today were not on the clock. And he missed two appointments yesterday. So I'm sure he lost money on this one. And the sad part of this is that it is a DirecTV training issue. They are setting their installers up for failures.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

trh said:


> And the sad part of this is that it is a DirecTV training issue. They are setting their installers up for failures.


I wonder if has ever gone to http://www.satinstalltraining.com/ and watched any of the training videos or read the training documents or tech bulletins that are out there for the techs? I've seen them and every problem you posted about woudn't have happened if they had watch and learned from the videos. Was this person working for an independent contractor or one of the DIRECTV owned installation companies?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Dr_J said:


> I'm glad you're up and running.
> 
> This is one of the dilemmas I always face when deciding whether or not to upgrade--potentially disrupt a very stable system all in the name of an upgrade. More often than not, there are bumps in the road that make me wish I had never done it, but after a couple of months, the kinks are usually worked out and am glad I did it in the end.


Exactly why I held off for months on this upgrade. But when they offered this to me for free, I figured I could endure the aggrevation.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

RAD said:


> I wonder if has ever gone to http://www.satinstalltraining.com/ and watched any of the training videos or read the training documents or tech bulletins that are out there for the techs? I've seen them and every problem you posted about woudn't have happened if they had watch and learned from the videos. Was this person working for an independent contractor or one of the DIRECTV owned installation companies?


Maybe he is working to many hours to have fee time to look at them? Got to earn enough to feed, clothe and put a roof overhead.
Or maybe nobody told him they were there?

I suspect that the good ones burn out quick.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> ...EDIT - I call the supervisor at 8AM today. Told him that the problem was the 11 tuners running off the 1 SWiM16 port won't work -- 8 tuners per port. He said *"realistically they are supposed to able to power 8 DVRs...*


Off one port? :lol:

Did you show him this http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10396641/SWM%20-%20Integrated%20LNB-ModuleTraining.pdf

Glad to hear that everything is working though.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

trh said:


> Installer is back (I don't like calling him a "tech").
> 
> ** He ran another line off the SWiM16 to another 8-way splitter. 7 tuners on one and 4 on the second splitter.


This is another point the tech needs to learn: use the correct sized splitter for the job. Using an oversized splitter adds DB loss to the system.


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## RAD (Aug 5, 2002)

"TBoneit" said:


> Maybe he is working to many hours to have fee time to look at them? Got to earn enough to feed, clothe and put a roof overhead.
> Or maybe nobody told him they were there?
> 
> I suspect that the good ones burn out quick.


Maybe, but how much time did he waste on this call, and not making $'s because he did't know what he was doing?


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

RAD said:


> Was this person working for an independent contractor or one of the DIRECTV owned installation companies?


The work order listed the company as MASTEC. The installer arrived in his own van; the supervisor showed up in a white van with a DirecTV logo on the front.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Initially the installer used a SWiM16 feeding 1 8-way splitter for my 5 DVRs and 1 receiver (11 tuners). After he figured out that he had to use both outputs on the SWiM16, he installed a 2nd 8-way splitter. So I currently have 2 8-way splitters feeding 6 boxes. 2 of the cables aren't currently feeding anything. Although I haven't had any problems, I've read here that using 2 8-ways when I only need 2 4-ways will negatively impact my signal strength. 

Is this something that I should call DirecTV and have them come back out and fix or should I just order the 2-ways from SolidSignal ($9.99 each)?

And should I disconnect the unused cables? I can see a time when one of the cables could be used for a 2nd TV in our family room (2 football games at once).


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I wouldn't bother calling DirecTV. A bit too much of a nit-pick IMO.

You can leave the unused cables connected. That serves much the same purpose as having a terminating resistor.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

carl6 said:


> I wouldn't bother calling DirecTV. A bit too much of a nit-pick IMO.
> 
> *You can leave the unused cables connected. That serves much the same purpose as having a terminating resistor*.


I disagree, as it takes a long long coax run to attenuate the reflection to anywhere near what a termination does.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I got this advice from VeryOldSchool... and he's a whiz at this stuff. Get some 75Ω barrels and terminators, and add a barrel and terminator to every unused cable that's still hooked up, if you can't disconnect them.

I understand that extra splitters add some line loss. I've got 2 8-ways coming off my SWiM-16 and have been considering changing them for 4-ways, which would suit my needs.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I got this advice from VeryOldSchool... and he's a whiz at this stuff. Get some 75Ω barrels and terminators, and add a barrel and terminator to every unused cable that's still hooked up, if you can't disconnect them.
> 
> I understand that extra splitters add some line loss. I've got 2 8-ways coming off my SWiM-16 and have been considering changing them for 4-ways, which would suit my needs.


By changing the 8-ways to 4-ways, you'll boost the levels 4-5 dB to the receivers, though because the signal screen, in them, reads bit-rate errors, they won't show a change.


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