# BREAKING!!!Directv Announce How MPEG4 Conversion will happen!



## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

Directv announced today that MPEG4 will start at the beginning of 2nd half of the 2005 year. The first markets will benefit first then slowly everyone else who will benefit from MPEG4 HD. Directv also announced that current HD custmers who have HD and will have their HD boxes upgraded at Directv's expense in which they will cover the cost for in 2006! Also Local HD is not only on the agenda, National HD channels will be launched as well!!! 

This info came from the Live Conference call today at 1pm!

Edit for your viewing pleasure, A special thanks to CPanther95 over @ AVS Forum for this timely edit:
Things we expect to allow D* to leapfrog the competition:

Our announced plan to offer later this year a more advanced DVR, and dramatically expand our HD program. We will also introduce a product that we be a transforming product for both our company and the industry. The Home Media Center, or Home Gateway as we may refer to it, is being developed in-house by DirecTV. It will provide whole-house connectivity with all multimedia systems with mobility for devices outside the home. And since we control the design and architecture, I'm confident that over time, the Home Gateway will drive our customer retention costs lower. I say this for a few reasons.

First, since the Home Gateway will provide, HDTV, DVR and other home media services throughout the house, our upgrade or retention costs should be lower. We also expect to save on installation costs when we are able to connect the system wirelessly. We will introduce a revised marketing offer more akin to a lease plan. And finally we are designing the system to be very flexible and easily upgradeable.

From the Q&A period:

We'll have the upgrade to MPEG 4 at the early part of the second half of the year and we will clearly convert our HD customers which at today's numbers are about half a million. The people that sign up for the Spaceway services will be timed so that they will be receiving Spaceway capable, or MPEG4 set top boxes. So you would not have a conversion required for those new customers that are signing up for the Spaceway services. What we will have is a set of customers that take HD that will have to be converted to be able to receive the Ka signal, so it will have to be the customers who don't work on Spaceway that will have to be converted and that will be a potential marketing cost that we'll have to bear in '05 or rather early '06.

..: &#8230;and it will be staggered, the first wave will be 12 markets, and then more thereafter. So I think around the same time, if all goes well and our Home Gateway is introduced, the conversion may be part of that, not just going to your house and replacing some equipment. Part of a whole new issue to the home.

Do you expect that you will be going to MPEG 4 for all of your CONUS or national HD programming as well for efficiency reasons&#8230;.?

Yeah, it will clearly be a transition - there will still be customers well into '06 that will still be getting HD programming over the Legacy based - we're only talking about the half million existing customers, all new customers that buy into the Spaceway sats will be getting HD LIL's and National HD channels over MPEG4. It's the Legacy customers that will be converted over '05 & '06&#8230;or converted over time to MPEG4.


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## Mikey (Oct 26, 2004)

Smthkd said:


> Directv announced today that MPEG4 will start at the beginning of 2nd half of the 2005 year. The first markets will benefit first then slowly everyone else who will benefit from MPEG4 HD. Directv also announced that current HD custmers who have HD and will have their HD boxes upgraded at Directv's expense in which they will cover the cost for in 2006! Also Local HD is not only on the agenda, National HD channels will be launched as well!!!


The precedent for free upgrades to MPEG-4 is set. Dish will have to follow.


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## beasst37799 (Mar 8, 2004)

so does this mean if i have 2 hd boxes theyll exhange 2 of them or just one ? i know its a stupid question but rather know now rather than later


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

beasst37799 said:


> so does this mean if i have 2 hd boxes theyll exhange 2 of them or just one ? i know its a stupid question but rather know now rather than later


Im not sure but I would assume that this would be the case, however this is not concrete. They may only give 1 HD MPEG4 Box per customer first and ask for a small fee for additional box swap outs!

On the down side! In very few words those with HDTivo's are basically being told suck it up because the came down on the price and HDTivos work well! No report so far whether HDTivos will be fully replaced or upgraded if possible. All in all HDTivo customer are still getting the run around!! Sorry Guys!


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

This is NOT breaking, this way announced at CES 3 weeks ago. This was announced when they announced the 12 Cities that were going to get HD locals (which will be in MPEG4)

DirecTV has a live demonstration of MPEG4 and I wasn''t impressed, it looked blocky, but to be fair I wasnt sure if it was the MPEG4 or a improperly setup TV. The video on Display was not what I would even consider to be close to High Definition Video.


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

Scott Greczkowski said:


> This is NOT breaking, this way announced at CES 3 weeks ago. This was announced when they announced the 12 Cities that were going to get HD locals (which will be in MPEG4)
> 
> DirecTV has a live demonstration of MPEG4 and I wasn''t impressed, it looked blocky, but to be fair I wasnt sure if it was the MPEG4 or a improperly setup TV. The video on Display was not what I would even consider to be close to High Definition Video.


Scott Im listening to the conference right now! Many of us wasn't at CES. Besides this on HOW the boxes are going to replace!
Listen for yourself its still on:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-irhome
The Conference is NOW over @ 2:30pm est


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Yea, it wasn't announced at CES how they would (or even if) they would replace boxes for free, small fee or whatnot. This is actual details of what they will do. I just fired up the conference call myself to listen to it.


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## Mike Russell (Feb 6, 2003)

This is of the subject, but is satelliteguys down or why can't I link to them. I'm not very computer wise, but I do like to read this stuff. Thanks for some info.

Mike


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

Mike Russell said:


> This is of the subject, but is satelliteguys down or why can't I link to them. I'm not very computer wise, but I do like to read this stuff. Thanks for some info.
> 
> Mike


Dont worry, Ive posted the same info there as well!
Here, try this link:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=119


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## Scott Greczkowski (Mar 21, 2002)

Ahh I forgot they had their earnings call today. (Damn I wanted to hear it too!)

SatelliteGuys is up and running, if your having trouble getting in try clearing your cache (ie temporary files) and try again. The board is kind of busy at the moment so its definately not down.  (PM me if you need more help)


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## Mike Russell (Feb 6, 2003)

Thanks Smthkd, that link didn't didn't work and I don't have time to mess with it now. I will try again later, I have got to get some work done around here.


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## nuzzy (Aug 29, 2004)

Smthkd said:


> Directv also announced that current HD custmers who have HD and will have their HD boxes upgraded at Directv's expense in which they will cover the cost for in 2006!


Yeah, but are they going to replace HD-Tivo's with MPEG-4 HD Tivos?? My guess is we're screwed and they'll only offer to replace them with HD receivers. :nono2:


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## George_T (Sep 19, 2002)

Someone explain for us technologically-challenged people what exactly MPEG4 is. Thanks in advance!


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## digitalbroadcast (Sep 12, 2004)

Have any of you noticed how smooth and seamless MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 seem on your computer at home... and then when you have MPEG-4, Divx, xivd (MPEG-4 variants), etc, etc the video seems less stable, less easy to timeshift, etc? I'd hope Tivo units using MPEG-4 wouldn't have the same problem? Or is it just the crappy 3rd party codecs that are being used in videos I've downloaded from the net... Hmm.


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## hongcho (Mar 25, 2004)

MPEG-4 is the third version (1, 2, and 4 ) of MPEG (Moving Picture Experts Group)'s video/audio system. It not only includes codecs (audio and video), but also the system and the application architecture.

In a more narrow scope, it just refers to a video codec included in MPEG-4. There are many variations on the codec. Initially, MPEG-4 video codec was more geared toward low-bandwidth network application. It did not do that well for high-bandwidth material (HD, for example), so they've come up with AVC (Advanced Video Codec) in collaboration with ITU (their H.264 is identical to MPEG-4 AVC).

So, in the HD sense, MPEG-4 refers to MPEG-4 AVC. But there's more. 

During the evaluation of MPEG-4 AVC, it was noted that it did not do well on texture reproduction (fine details got blurred out). So, a new technique was added and it was called High Profile (or HP). And this MPEG-4 AVC HP was adopted to both BluRay and HD-DVD standards.

So, when people talk about MPEG-4 in the context of HD, it refers to MPEG-4 AVC HP.

BTW, "profiles" are a collection of encoding techniques that the decoder understands. So, you can think of it as a major version (that is, MPEG-4 AVC decoder will not be able to handle MPEG-4 AVC HP bitstream fully, I think).

Well, someone can correct me if I made a gross mistake. 

EDIT: I forgot. In ideal condition, MPEG-4 AVC HP should achieve similar quality as MPEG-2 with half the bandwidth. But even the inmaturity of the MPEG-4 AVC HP encoders (and the maturity of MPEG-2 encoders) at this point, it would be a bit worse than that.

Hong.


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

digitalbroadcast said:


> Have any of you noticed how smooth and seamless MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 seem on your computer at home... and then when you have MPEG-4, Divx, xivd (MPEG-4 variants), etc, etc the video seems less stable, less easy to timeshift, etc? I'd hope Tivo units using MPEG-4 wouldn't have the same problem? Or is it just the crappy 3rd party codecs that are being used in videos I've downloaded from the net... Hmm.


Those porn mpegs are from crappy codecs....  BTW I don't think that D* will abandon those with HDTivos, we might not be getting freebies but even so I would be willing to shell out a nominal fee for a comparable DVR solution. Now whether that be another Tivo or NDS thats another subject for another day.


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## digitalbroadcast (Sep 12, 2004)

DCSholtis said:


> Those porn mpegs are from crappy codecs....


Hahaha not porn, dork... :lol:


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## weirdude2304 (Oct 9, 2004)

What happened to mp3? Or was MP3 just for audio files?


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

weirdude2304 said:


> What happened to mp3? Or was MP3 just for audio files?


Correct! However, MP3 audio is still a different Codec. MP3 could still be tailored for video!


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## pstineme (May 14, 2004)

Any word on when the new home media center will be released? I'm waiting on that before I call and sign up as a new customer for Directv.


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## Smthkd (Sep 1, 2004)

pstineme said:


> Any word on when the new home media center will be released? I'm waiting on that before I call and sign up as a new customer for Directv.


Announced for end of 2005 and beginning of 2006!


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

digitalbroadcast said:


> Hahaha not porn, dork... :lol:


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

digitalbroadcast said:


> Have any of you noticed how smooth and seamless MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 seem on your computer at home... and then when you have MPEG-4, Divx, xivd (MPEG-4 variants), etc, etc the video seems less stable, less easy to timeshift, etc?


Wouldn't this likely be due to the extra processing power required to handle MPEG4/Divx? My computer (Athlon 64/3000) seems pretty smooth with Divx (except when something else hits the hard drive).

This tends to not be applicable to set top boxes which would be using hardware decoders (assuming they work).


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

nuzzy said:


> Yeah, but are they going to replace HD-Tivo's with MPEG-4 HD Tivos?? My guess is we're screwed and they'll only offer to replace them with HD receivers. :nono2:


There will be no MPEG4 HD-Tivo's most likely. You'll have the option to upgrade to the new HD-DVR available with the HMC. Or you can keep your HD-Tivo and it will keep functioning just fine until such time they move all HD nationals to MPEG4 (which might be a while, at least a year or two at the minimum). The only reason your HD-DirecTivo won't be good for anymore is if you need/want to get your HD locals via the Spaceway sats if you can't get them via your antenna.


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

What do they mean by ' We will introduce a revised marketing offer more akin to a lease plan.' Does this mean people won't actually own the equipment and will be charged ???/mo? I'm not sure what I think of this. Parts sound good, parts don't. What do you think the monthly charge this new Home Media solution would be.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

sunking,

It means that they will offer a lease plan in addition to purchasing. So you can spend $1600 on the server and $300 for each client or you can lease for $15-$20 a month. Your choice. Honestly I hate leasing stuff but if they provide me a server and 3 clients for $15 a month instead of over 2 grand up front) I'll be all over it.


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## Stevies3 (Jul 22, 2004)

With the conversion to MPEG4, Do we need to get new dishes as well. I have the Phase III. Where are these new satellites located? Steven


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## hongcho (Mar 25, 2004)

> With the conversion to MPEG4, Do we need to get new dishes as well

Yes. If you want to see all 5 locations. Although no details are known and no announcements are made, some think there will be a new "super" dish with 5 LNBs.

Hong.


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## BearsFan (Apr 22, 2002)

Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes here, but...now it's clear to see why D* is raising rates across the board.

Much like the school-age "guilt by association," those who have zero interest in HD and its technologies at this time are forced to pay for technology upgrades for the few. :nono: 

It's ok. More power to ya, HDTV owners. I'm sure I'll join you in about 10 years...just stinks that I have to start paying for it now.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The same reason why Dish Network is raising rates across the board and I would expect price increases that are a little higher like we have been seeing to make up for tese costs but it still will not make up for most of it. Getting subscriptions for HD services and lowering churn is how they will make up for a lot of the costs.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

BearsFan said:


> It's ok. More power to ya, HDTV owners. I'm sure I'll join you in about 10 years...just stinks that I have to start paying for it now.


Sorry, but your angst and animosity needs to be directed at Washington, DC, where the love of money is ever king. This digital conversion is going to line their pockets with billions (?) and therefore, Directv has to prepare.

It is obvious that the delivery of local channels drives the subscriber base and one day, there will be no more analog channels. Directv is proactively converting to digital / HD channels AND has found a way to deliver all the locals in the US via satellite.

I hate the price increases more than anyone, but I would rather align myself with a forward thinking company than one who is always playing catch up.


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## Montezuma58 (May 24, 2004)

BearsFan said:


> Much like the school-age "guilt by association," those who have zero interest in HD and its technologies at this time are forced to pay for technology upgrades for the few. :nono:


Well I have no interest in the Lifetime Movie Network, Oxygen, Sci-Fi, etc. yet I'm paying for them. Just as there are many customers with no interest in sports that are paying for ESPN, Golf Channel, Speed Vision, etc. That's just the nature of the beast. I don't think anybody would like the prices if they paid for only the exact channels they watch. We'll all pay for HD sooner or later whether or not you want too.


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## NThomas76207 (Jul 30, 2004)

man why cant Echostar do this with the SuperDish???

It's frustrating!!!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

They are working on the Super Duper Dish (if they can get those additional orbital slots).


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

HMC Cost update.

Latest info:

Two base units with different capacity. 

1) 240 GB - $499 + $99 for SD units and $199 for HD remote units
2) 480 GB - $599 + $99 for SD units and $199 for HD remote units

Trade in Values:

HD-TiVo -> High capacity unit + 2 HD remote units
SD TiVo -> Low capacity Unit + 1 SD remote unit
SD Receiver -> Low Capacity unit and 1 SD for every three (3) SD receivers.
It's basically a price match. For example, if you have two SD TiVo's and an standard HD unit, you can obtain the High Capacity + 1 HD remote unit in exchange.

Values on units for trade in:

Standard SD Receiver - No value for HMC - 1 for 1 on SD remote units
Standard HD Receiver - Low cap HMC or 1 HD Remote unit
1 TiVo - Low Capacity HMC + SD Unit
2 TiVo - High Capacity HMC + SD Unit, or High Capacity + SD Unit

Dollar Value:

SD Receiver $99
HD Receiver $399
TiVo $199
HD TiVo - $899


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Skyboss said:


> 2) 480 GB - $599 + $99 for SD units and $199 for HD remote units


I was planning on buying a HDTivo this Fall until the news came out about MPEG-4, but I'm not interested in buying the remote units. Will I be able to do it, or will I have to have a remote unit?!

~Alan


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

The base serves as the tuner for the room it is in.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

Skyboss said:


> The base serves as the tuner for the room it is in.


I assume that's a yes?!

The fact of the matter is, while I like the idea of the whole home Media Center, I'm quite fond of my DirecTIVOs, and have no intention of getting rid of them unless I have to...

However, if I can only buy the base, I'm sold!!

~Alan


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

Dish Network should do their MPEG-4 swapouts in a similar manner but have removable tuners, hard drives, etc. in their units. Its smart that DirecTv is allowing additional receivers to be able to connect to the main hard drive.


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## EricRobins (Feb 9, 2005)

Skyboss said:


> HMC Cost update.
> 
> Latest info:
> 
> ...


I currently have 1 HD-Tivo, 1 SD Tivo and 1 SD Receiver. What will I get? 
From your "Trade in values":
1 High capacity unit, 2 low capacity units, 2 HD remote units and 1 SD remote unit?


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Am I reading this right?

So if you have 1 hd tvio (250 gig), you can trade it for a 480 gig HMC + 2 remotes, for connections to 3x HDTV's?

Do you own the new box?
That's incredible!!!

Have there been any details on this guy? How many tuners? How many simultaneous remote streams?


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## Ray_Clum (Apr 22, 2002)

What are they going to do regarding all the hacked TiVo's out there with larger HD's? Give more credit or say "Sorry Sucker!"?


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Well, since hacks of any kind, including adding a HD are not supported, you're on your own. Why would they give more credit?


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## Montezuma58 (May 24, 2004)

What is the source for the prices/exchange rates listed above?


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## DCSholtis (Aug 7, 2002)

I thought the HD would be on the server TV while the others would be SD not HD?!! Am I right or did something change?


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

jabroni said:


> Sorry, but your angst and animosity needs to be directed at Washington, DC, where the love of money is ever king. This digital conversion is going to line their pockets with billions (?) and therefore, Directv has to prepare.
> 
> It is obvious that the delivery of local channels drives the subscriber base and one day, there will be no more analog channels. Directv is proactively converting to digital / HD channels AND has found a way to deliver all the locals in the US via satellite.


Actually, D* will NOT be able to serve every market. There are a total of 210 DMAS with an average of 10 stations...... Even if you only count the 6 mains and the PBS, that's still 1500 local channels, and they are only promising 500 channels via spotbeam, and 150 national HD channels..............


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

larrystotler said:


> Actually, D* will NOT be able to serve every market. There are a total of 210 DMAS with an average of 10 stations...... Even if you only count the 6 mains and the PBS, that's still 1500 local channels, and they are only promising 500 channels via spotbeam, and 150 national HD channels..............


Actually, that's 500 local channels *per satellite*... making it 1,000 local channels in HD


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Ok, that's still 210 DMAs, average of 10 channels per = 2100 channels..................Hmmmm, seems they are still a bit short. The average per DMA would have to be under 5. Also, this doesn't take into account all the hassle of the uplinking and agreements with the stations....it will be a good long while. Even 6 years after the SHVIA they are still not up to the 210 DMAs in analog.........................either company. (of course, DMAs like 181, Harrisionburg, VA only have 2 channels, ABC 3 and PBS 51, so they should just stick them in with Charlotteville or DC anyway.


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## Oskee I (Feb 2, 2005)

Skyboss said:


> HMC Cost update.
> 
> Latest info:
> 
> ...


Am I correct in thinking the base units are 1. stand alone tuners and 2. are capable of HD out of the box? I have a SD Tivo and a bunch of SD receivers and was considering purchasing a HD Receiver. If both 1 and 2 are true, I think I'll just hold off and trade in all of my stuff. If either is false, can I just pay some extra to get the HD capabilities? Just want to see if I should wait or go out and get a HD Receiver. I live in the DC area so I think our area is one of the first to get upgraded.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

larrystotler said:


> Ok, that's still 210 DMAs, average of 10 channels per = 2100 channels..................Hmmmm, seems they are still a bit short. The average per DMA would have to be under 5. Also, this doesn't take into account all the hassle of the uplinking and agreements with the stations....it will be a good long while. Even 6 years after the SHVIA they are still not up to the 210 DMAs in analog.........................either company. (of course, DMAs like 181, Harrisionburg, VA only have 2 channels, ABC 3 and PBS 51, so they should just stick them in with Charlotteville or DC anyway.


1) They have said *1500* local HD channels and 150 nationals. This is across *4* sats. 2 launched this year (Spaceway), 2 launched in 2007 (DirecTV 10 and 11).
2) Many channels are not in HD and never will be. Especially sub 100 markets. Many stations will never go HD but will only do the federally mandated "digital".
3) Most markets in sub 100/125 only have 1 or 2 channels per market. 
4) According to the FCC there are 1366 commercial TV stations in the country plus 382 "educational" TV stations (I assume PBS) making a total of 1748. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/totals/bt040930.html
5) So 1500 is *more* then enough to carry all HD locals that might be available in 2007 and probably for the next decade, at least.


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## ramy (May 18, 2004)

Directv 10 and 11 will be launched in 2007 not 2004


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## Danbo (Oct 3, 2002)

Okay, call me stupid here, but I have a noob question.

I just purchased the HR10-250 (yet to be installed). D* is starting to sell these directly, where previously they were sold only by other vendors. I don't see any "price cut" for that unit. The package still came out to just over $1100 (taxes included, free installation).

I'm switching from E* since their look at HD is far down the road. So, since I just bought this thing, and have yet to see it, much less use it, what happens to me? I need dual tuners and DVR. So I'm SoL with this? There won't be any sort of DVR with HD in this conversion? And what is this with base and remotes? I'm clueless about the discussion on this and what it means.

Basically, my purpose for the HR10-250 is to replace my E* 721, have dual tuners, and get HD (recording my local programs in HD, hopefully). What will be my options? In laymans terms of course. Is there still a way of getting HD, dual tuners, and DVR capabilities with any type of conversion? And of D* is selling these boxes directly now, why do it if people getting them are going to be SoL with the DVR aspect?


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## Oskee I (Feb 2, 2005)

Danbo said:


> Okay, call me stupid here, but I have a noob question.
> 
> I just purchased the HR10-250 (yet to be installed). D* is starting to sell these directly, where previously they were sold only by other vendors. I don't see any "price cut" for that unit. The package still came out to just over $1100 (taxes included, free installation).
> 
> ...


Someone correct me as I consider myself a newbie too, but from my understand these HMC (Home Media Centers) will be a HD DVR and the remote receiver will be able to feed off of the server. I have no clue if the server will have dual tune capablilities to record stuff. I asked a question earlier about the server and if they deliver HD, but from reading on other boards, it appears these servers are stand alone HD receivers.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

bonscott87 said:


> 1) They have said *1500* local HD channels and 150 nationals. This is across *4* sats. 2 launched this year (Spaceway), 2 launched in 2007 (DirecTV 10 and 11).
> 2) Many channels are not in HD and never will be. Especially sub 100 markets. Many stations will never go HD but will only do the federally mandated "digital".
> 3) Most markets in sub 100/125 only have 1 or 2 channels per market.
> 4) According to the FCC there are 1366 commercial TV stations in the country plus 382 "educational" TV stations (I assume PBS) making a total of 1748. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/totals/bt040930.html
> 5) So 1500 is *more* then enough to carry all HD locals that might be available in 2007 and probably for the next decade, at least.


#1 - None of the sats have successfully launched. I will believe it when I see it.
#2 - Correct, the conversion is for digital transmission, not HD, However, they will have to leave a great deal of slop to deal with the fact that most HD shows are broadcast at the same time, so they will basically have to reserve the space.
#3/4 - Ok, but it still has to happen. If E* gets the approval for the Rainbow 1 aquisition, then they could have the Digital LiL before D*, using a proven technology, and not have to wait to swap receivers to get people what they want......If they can pull it off, just like if D* can successfully launch all the spaceway sats.


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## BrettStah (Feb 7, 2003)

OK, so if we have a hacked Tivo (HD or otherwise), it'd be smart to just remove the extra drive before sending it in as a trade-in, so that shouldn't be an issue for DirecTV to deal with/consider.

What I'm wondering is (and there may not be an answer to this yet), if a single customer has two HD-Tivos, will they be treated the same as if they were two different customers? In other words, will they get exactly double what a single HD-Tivo owner gets?


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

They could provide the main locals in HD while keeping the less popular locals in SD.


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## Andrew_J_M (Feb 11, 2005)

BrettStah said:


> OK, so if we have a hacked Tivo (HD or otherwise), it'd be smart to just remove the extra drive before sending it in as a trade-in, so that shouldn't be an issue for DirecTV to deal with/consider.
> 
> What I'm wondering is (and there may not be an answer to this yet), if a single customer has two HD-Tivos, will they be treated the same as if they were two different customers? In other words, will they get exactly double what a single HD-Tivo owner gets?


Do you think that D* will actually expect everyone to return their existing kit for the trade-in? I would expect them just to ask for the access cards to be returned. The boxes themselves would have no value to D* or to us.

I don't know if anyone can give an informed answer to any of the questions and speculation that I have but here goes anway:

1) Has there been any confirmation on the interconnections between the server(s) and clients? I've seen speculation on coax and/or cat5.
2) How would two servers be connected?
3) If I wanted to watch a program recorded in HD on a non-HD remote TV, would I require an HD client?
4) Would non-active receivers count towards trade-in?
5) Would an UltimateTV count the same as an SD Tivo at trade-in?
6) Are the trade-in values above set in stone? Some of them seem a little strange, for instance, why would anyone trade an HD receiver for an HD client (worth $199) when they could have got an extra low-cap HMC (worth $499)?
7) Would the new dish and multiswitch be included?
8) Will the HMC be available when the new HD Lils go online? (I'm in the first group to active). If not, would D* exchange my current HD receiver for an MPEG4 capable one initially then swap it again for an HMC later?
9) Is the HMC going to be the only PVR capable of MPEG4? What happened to the rumoured NDS boxes?


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

The answer to your first question was delineated in a recent Directv press release, namely that Ethernet over wireless would be the transport.

The answer to the second question is the same as the first.

Not sure about the next seven questions!


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Oh I would fully expect them to just have people send in their access cards (or they will just disable them and we can toss them out which is most likely I'd say). No need for all that added expense of shipping heaving boxes in to DirecTV. That would be a waste.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

larrystotler said:


> #1 - None of the sats have successfully launched. I will believe it when I see it.


Not understanding your post here. Of course we will see it when we believe it. That is their stated plan but who knows what might happen should there be a launch failure or something. The current debate was weather 1500 HD channels was enough to cover all the HD LIL. And the answer to that is that it is enough. Certainly through 2010 it will be. Should the number grow above 1500 after that it should be easy enough for them to launch another sat or find space. Somehow I wouldn't be worried about it.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

EricRobins said:


> I currently have 1 HD-Tivo, 1 SD Tivo and 1 SD Receiver. What will I get?
> From your "Trade in values":
> 1 High capacity unit, 2 low capacity units, 2 HD remote units and 1 SD remote unit?


The high capacity base unit (HD Tivo), 1 HD remote (SD Tivo), 1 SD remote (SD). You'd pay $99 and get a second HD remote vs the SD.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Oskee I said:


> Someone correct me as I consider myself a newbie too, but from my understand these HMC (Home Media Centers) will be a HD DVR and the remote receiver will be able to feed off of the server. I have no clue if the server will have dual tune capablilities to record stuff. I asked a question earlier about the server and if they deliver HD, but from reading on other boards, it appears these servers are stand alone HD receivers.


Quad tuner. Up to 7 remote HD units.



larrystotler said:


> #1 - None of the sats have successfully launched. I will believe it when I see it.
> #2 - Correct, the conversion is for digital transmission, not HD, However, they will have to leave a great deal of slop to deal with the fact that most HD shows are broadcast at the same time, so they will basically have to reserve the space.
> #3/4 - Ok, but it still has to happen. If E* gets the approval for the Rainbow 1 aquisition, then they could have the Digital LiL before D*, using a proven technology, and not have to wait to swap receivers to get people what they want......If they can pull it off, just like if D* can successfully launch all the spaceway sats.


1. You must be an "E" customer, used to failure. If the sats go up as planned, the system will work. It's been tested for six months already.
2. Reserve space for what? With a single box solution, the box would do the conversion. One feed, no duplication.
3. 3/4 - Not enough bandwidth for E. And D* was smart enough to buy spares.


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## Andrew_J_M (Feb 11, 2005)

jabroni said:


> The answer to your first question was delineated in a recent Directv press release, namely that Ethernet over wireless would be the transport.
> 
> The answer to the second question is the same as the first.
> 
> Not sure about the next seven questions!


Do you have a link to that? I thought that I had seen a PR stating the wireless would NOT be available when the HMC is first released but would come later. Neither of those PRs are on D* website now.


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## nollchr (Jan 3, 2005)

Andrew_J_M said:


> Do you have a link to that? I thought that I had seen a PR stating the wireless would NOT be available when the HMC is first released but would come later. Neither of those PRs are on D* website now.


That was my understanding as well. The wireless would need to wait for 802.11n which gives higher (100 mbps ?) bandwidth than g. Apparently g can not provide the sustained bandwidth necessary for reliable viewing


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## jmhunter83 (Jun 3, 2004)

OH MY LORD!
you are all spinning in speculation. Someone came up with some random numbers for trade-ins, and called them official... and no everyone is freaking out thinking, well what is DTV going to give me for my equipment. Why don't we wait and see, until we all start planning what kind of system that we want, since we don't really even know what the plan is. We don't really even know what the equipment is going to be, though many are claiming to have the specs, I just say BS until we see some equipment.


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## scottchez (Feb 4, 2003)

Lets all not forget that Direct TVs last HD DVR was ONE YEAR LATE (the HD Tivo).

I bet we do not see any HD Home media solutions till this time next year.

They do not even have the SAT up yet so they can even test MPEG4, they always do a production pilot before releasing and those pilot test go for at least 6 Months, thats why things are more stable that like Dishnetwork (the Tivos are all very stable).

Its all Vapor ware. Thats why Im selling my HD Tivo on Ebay next month real cheap going with the new Cox Cable Dual TUner HD DVR with Firewire out for cost only $180 a year and you get free upgrades.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

The cost of getting the hardware mailed back (and some cases having an installer to come out to get the hardware to get it mailed back) probably would not make it worth the expense to them.


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## Lee L (Aug 15, 2002)

I am definitely fine with trading my HD TiVo for this type of a structure.

I did just think about something with the operation of all this equipment. Lets say I trade all my stuff in and go the HMC route. I have an HD Tivo, an SD Tivo and 2 standard SD receivers-one in the office and one in a guest room. So either by trade in or by purchase, I have the ability to have the remote unit in the guest room and now people staying over can watch whatever we have recorded as well (my wife is always recording random movies to watch when she feels like it). Can I control what rights the remote units have so that someone does not accidentally delete something?

This would have some implications for people with children as well for both the deleting and what they can watch or even see is in the Now Playing List (or whatever the equivalent).


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

scottchez said:


> Lets all not forget that Direct TVs last HD DVR was ONE YEAR LATE (the HD Tivo).
> 
> I bet we do not see any HD Home media solutions till this time next year.


This is pretty much what they have already said anyway. 1st qtr 2006 is the expected rollout of HMC.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Skyboss said:


> 1. You must be an "E" customer, used to failure. If the sats go up as planned, the system will work. It's been tested for six months already.
> 2. Reserve space for what? With a single box solution, the box would do the conversion. One feed, no duplication.
> 3. 3/4 - Not enough bandwidth for E. And D* was smart enough to buy spares.


1. Actually, I am an installer, and I have both services. And they still need to start producing the MPEG4 boxes and supply them to the customers with the new Ka Band dish. So, IF E* can get the Rainbow 1 sale, they will have the same top 12 local markets available before D*, and with E*10, they could serve some of the west coast markets as well. This will give them more leeway for their MPEG4 conversion. 
2. I was refering to the NTSC to ATSC conversion. When the NTSC feeds are shut down, the stations only have to broadcast in DIGITAL, NOT HD. However, an HD feed requires a good deal more bandwidth than the digital feed, so in order to actually have enough space, they would have to reserve a full HD bandwidth so that when a show is broadcast in HD, it will be available. D* does a lot of swapping right now when they need the HD space.
3/4. E* has spares. More than D*. E* has licenses at the 61.5, 110, 119, 148, & 157 in DBS Ku, 83, 85, 105, 109, 121 in FSS Ku Band, KuX at the 121, and Ka band on the 105 and 85........So, who has spares?

bonscott87:
They still have to get the sats up, convert the markets to digital locals, allow enough room for when HD is broadcast, allow for mulitpath, and do the MPEG4 conversion. This will take years, so having the ability to have all of the "HD" locals is kinda misleading since they will have to actually get all this done, and they will still not have enough capacity for ALL the locals in HD(remember, digital does not mean HD although the industry is misleading everyone with this). However, time will tell.


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Larry, you really need to stop by DBSForums or AVS and read up on the actual technical specs of the Spaceway sats. Assuming the birds get in the air, there will be none of the problems you speak of. Bandwidth (or lack thereof) is no issue. Top 30 will be up by mid 2006 and the rest by end of 2007. Plain and simple really.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

It is still a new tech, and they still have to replace all the receivers to utilize this tech. If E* can make it with the aquisition of Rainbow 1, they will be able to have the locals in digital/HD before D* can. Or the other way around.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

Andrew_J_M said:


> Do you think that D* will actually expect everyone to return their existing kit for the trade-in? I would expect them just to ask for the access cards to be returned. The boxes themselves would have no value to D* or to us.


1) Has there been any confirmation on the interconnections between the server(s) and clients? I've seen speculation on coax and/or cat5.

Ethernet will be the prefered connection, and consideration is being given to a coaxial connection.

2) How would two servers be connected?

The same way servers and clients are connected.

3) If I wanted to watch a program recorded in HD on a non-HD remote TV, would I require an HD client?

No.

4) Would non-active receivers count towards trade-in?

No.

5) Would an UltimateTV count the same as an SD Tivo at trade-in?

No.

6) Are the trade-in values above set in stone? Some of them seem a little strange, for instance, why would anyone trade an HD receiver for an HD client (worth $199) when they could have got an extra low-cap HMC (worth $499)?

I answered this in another thread.

7) Would the new dish and multiswitch be included?

Yes.

8) Will the HMC be available when the new HD Lils go online? (I'm in the first group to active). If not, would D* exchange my current HD receiver for an MPEG4 capable one initially then swap it again for an HMC later?

No, it will be here in time to fill your stocking though.

9) Is the HMC going to be the only PVR capable of MPEG4? What happened to the rumoured NDS boxes?[/QUOTE]

No, HUMAX will build Stand Alone boxes as well.


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

Oh GOODY ! I just LOOOOOOOOOOVE stockings filled with way cool electronics. 

Now, I gotta make sure I am one of the first subs on the list to get this installed.

Thanks Skyboss.


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## PHL (Jul 15, 2004)

Skyboss said:


> 1) Has there been any confirmation on the interconnections between the server(s) and clients? I've seen speculation on coax and/or cat5.
> 
> Ethernet will be the prefered connection, and consideration is being given to a coaxial connection.
> 
> ...


No, HUMAX will build Stand Alone boxes as well.[/QUOTE]

Skyboss, Thanks for all the info. However, would you mind giving all us some insight into the nature or your sources for this info. I know some of the tech info has been announced via press releases by D*, but what about the info re: pricing and trade-ins. I don't mean to question your credibility. I'm just wondering how accurate you consider your sources to be. Obviously, some things are subject to change, but what would you say is your confidence level in some of the statements you've made re: HMC.

Thanks again for the inside info.


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

I'd love to, but I can't provide the source. All I can say is I'll keep posting what I know.


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## pstineme (May 14, 2004)

So Skyboss, I am currently a comcast customer wanting to head back to satellite. Am I better off waiting for the Home media center to come out before subscribing or should I join now? The only reason I haven't subscribed yet, is I can't find a local installer in Indianapolis. I need some wires run that aren't covered in the standard installation and none of the major companies, including Directv, will give me an estimate without committing. :nono2:


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## sunking (Feb 17, 2004)

Skyboss said:


> I'd love to, but I can't provide the source. All I can say is I'll keep posting what I know.


So does this mean you don't know the source?


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## Skyboss (Jan 22, 2004)

pstineme said:


> So Skyboss, I am currently a comcast customer wanting to head back to satellite. Am I better off waiting for the Home media center to come out before subscribing or should I join now? The only reason I haven't subscribed yet, is I can't find a local installer in Indianapolis. I need some wires run that aren't covered in the standard installation and none of the major companies, including Directv, will give me an estimate without committing. :nono2:


If you don't care about Sunday Ticket, then I'd wait. Not much is changing until then and there will be a reasonable deal for you to get the HMC as a new customer late this year or early next when your market makes the switch.


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## deraz (Sep 25, 2004)

This is all technically above me. I don't know if this article is old or new news. My apologies if it is old:

http://www.avrev.com/news/0305/17.mpeg4.html


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## PHL (Jul 15, 2004)

Skyboss said:


> If you don't care about Sunday Ticket, then I'd wait. Not much is changing until then and there will be a reasonable deal for you to get the HMC as a new customer late this year or early next when your market makes the switch.


Skyboss,

Any new info? There's a thread over at Satelliteguys where someone is saying that the trade-in values are much different than what you posted back in February.

Posted by LonghornXP at Satelliteguys.us
==========================================================
If you currently have a basic HD box (Ie. Zenith SAT-520, Hughes E86) you will get a replacement basic HD box only. They might offer you a 250 dollar credit if you tradeup to renting their multiroom HD DVR and return your old HD box to them.

If you currently have an HD Tivo they will replace your box with their upcoming HD DVR (not the multiroom HD DVR). I've heard they might offer these things below for customers that upgrade to their multiroom HD DVR (IE they pay the rental fee and return their HD Tivo to them).

They would give a 500 programming credit.
Or they would give a 250 dollar programming credit plus 3 months of total choice premier free (93.99/month times three months off).
Or they would give a 300 dollar programming credit plus 20 bucks off total choice premier for six months and free HD package for 6 months.

Now all of these things I've heard are considered rumor and not official and the only things that are official are these below just to make sure things are straight.

Basic HD box gets basic HD box replacement.
HD Tivo owner gets HD DVR replacement (not the multiroom HD DVR).


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## jabroni (Apr 6, 2003)

If I can't trade in my HD Tivo for a MRV box, I will just keep it and hack it myself. It won't be obsolete until all HD is mpeg-4.


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## stevesmall (Jul 28, 2004)

PHL said:


> Skyboss,
> 
> Any new info? There's a thread over at Satelliteguys where someone is saying that the trade-in values are much different than what you posted back in February.
> 
> ...


Ok Now my scenario, i have 5 hd boxes no hdtivo but would absolutely be wanting the hmo or the mulriroom dvr. any idea how this might work ?


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## nightrider (Jan 6, 2005)

got a question , i bought a hd reciever from ebay ,have been subscribing with it for about 6 months will i get a free trade in as well , hope someone can answer me thanks


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## bonscott87 (Jan 21, 2003)

Nobody knows what they will be doing. It's all rumor. The only thing they have officially stated was that there would be some sort of trade in program at little or no cost depending on the equipment you have.

The fact you got your receiver on e-Bay is no different then me buying one at Best Buy. You bought it, you own it, you can trade it in for whatever value they determine it to have. 

If you're location is really Canada then there is no way you're getitng a trade in at all anyway unless you have a US address or broker.


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## vinnyv07 (Sep 2, 2004)

I called Directv today about my internal HD DTV receiver. They havent released any info to the public yet about what their plans are as far as upgrading HD receivers. I guess we will all have to wait and see.


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