# I've Absolutely Had It With DirecTV's DVRs!



## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

I'm a DirecTV + NFL-Sunday Ticket subscriber since 1995. I bought the first (standalone) TiVo unit just a few weeks after it came on the market, and three DirecTiVos since 1999/2000. When I wanted to "upgrade" to HD in 2006, I was told that the HR20 was my only choice. I have hated that box ever since! Then, I bought an HR24 from an online retailer because when my HR20 died I was sent a refurbished, scratched up, cigarette-smoke reeking box -- older and in far worse shape than the one I sent in.

It's bad enough that after enduring five, going on six years of these crap boxes that they still haven't fixed the autocorrect on FFx1 and Pause! But today, I had two of these DVRs buffering two live games. I finished watching the first game and went back to start watching the second (well within the 4:15 to 8:00 time period) after about 20 minutes it just flushed the buffer. No one was touching the remote. It just flushed the buffer for no reason. I missed the entire fourth quarter of the game. And this isn't the first time this kind of idiotic nonsense has happened!

DirecTV's DVR's absolutely SUCK! They still cannot code these boxes to save their lives. And, in addition to the absolutely horrible way they treat existing customers, they are about to lose a long time subscriber because of it all! I used to be a big fan of DirecTV, now I can't wait for them to lose their NFL exclusivity! And they might lose me regardless.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

1. You had 2 DVR's buffering 2 games. Are you saying they BOTH flushed the guide at the same time?
2. Why didn't you record them if they were important (especially if they screw up all the time, as you say)?
3. Why did you hate the HR20? Why did it have to be replaced? What exactly have you endured?
4. You've missed the entire 4th quarter of games before? When using TWO DVR's to buffer TWO Games?

Sorry for your troubles, all 3 of my DVR's have been working great.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Try recording instead of relying on the buffer.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Try recording instead of relying on the buffer.


You shouldn't have to record a game to watch it. That's the way that *GOOD* DVRs are designed to work! In the ten years I've used my DirecTiVos (two of them from ~2001 are still operating with the stock hard drives, albeit in SD) I NEVER once had the DVR flush the buffer arbitrarily (except for a power outage, but that's to be expected).

As usual, the suggestions for using these crap DVRs is to "not rely" upon it to work as it was designed. Okay ..


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## y2k02c5 (Sep 15, 2006)

Tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back  

As mentioned, Why didn't you just record the games instead of relying on the buffer? 

I have two HR24's with no issues. Used to have an HR20 and HR22 and didnt have any issues with those either. 

Hopefully you'll have better luck with your new service provider. Let us know how you like their DVR boxes.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> As usual, the suggestions for using these crap DVRs is to "not rely" upon it to work as it was designed. Okay ..


Buffers by the very term, are designed to buffer i.e. allow you to pause life, and catch back up. They were not designed to hold two entire football games, the record button was. Really, while I see your claim here, its really rather no different to record, than it is to watch the buffer, which has no protections against being stopped, changed, or overwritten. With recording, it will prompt you to stop if the DVR arbitrarily receives a stray IR signal (like lots of flat screens can put out). Its just safer.

I have recording football and Nascar like this since the HR20 first came out, and have never missed one, or had one cut off before it was scheduled to.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

As others have already mentioned, you need to record. The reason the buffer dumps is the channel goes inactive (so to speak) when the game is offer, so there is no channel to buffer.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

RobertE said:


> As others have already mentioned, you need to record. The reason the buffer dumps is the channel goes inactive (so to speak) when the game is offer, so there is no channel to buffer.


RobertE has very likely hit it on the head. When the channel goes away, the buffer is flushed.

Couple of things come to mind.

Anything important, you record. Not because of a design problem, but because buttons can get pressed. Power outages can happen.

One difference between the TiVO and the DIRECTV implementations of buffering is TiVo did not flush the buffer while someone was behind live, even when the tuner changed for a recording. That is design decision and a handy one. But rule #1 still applies. If it's important, doesn't matter if it is a TiVo or DIRECTV (or comcrap), record it. You'll thank me later. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

You get burnt by this sort of thing enough, you learn that if you really care about something you mash record. Heck, sometimes I've shot myself in the foot by pressing Prev Chan or Ch+/Ch- and erasing the buffer. Sometimes you don't realize another program has started recording. And yes, sometimes hitting the end of the broadcast window causes problems.

Should it randomly flush out of the blue? No. It shouldn't, and I can't recall seeing that one; but there are enough other reasons not to trust the live buffer.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

JonW said:


> You get burnt by this sort of thing enough, you learn that if you really care about something you mash record. Heck, sometimes I've shot myself in the foot by pressing Prev Chan or Ch+/Ch- and erasing the buffer. Sometimes you don't realize another program has started recording. And yes, sometimes hitting the end of the broadcast window causes problems.
> 
> Should it randomly flush out of the blue? No. It shouldn't, and I can't recall seeing that one; but there are enough other reasons not to trust the live buffer.


Yeah, my biggest problem is a crowded table and a button getting pushed at just the wrong time.

Oh and having cute great grandkids visit can do it too. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## r028806 (Mar 12, 2010)

The buffer only holds 90 minutes of the program... not enough to see the 4th quarter anyway. DVR...the R stands for Record. HR20 still current technology.


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## Diana C (Mar 30, 2007)

NFLnut said:


> You shouldn't have to record a game to watch it. That's the way that *GOOD* DVRs are designed to work!* In the ten years I've used my DirecTiVos (two of them from ~2001 are still operating with the stock hard drives, albeit in SD) I NEVER once had the DVR flush the buffer arbitrarily (except for a power outage, but that's to be expected).*
> 
> As usual, the suggestions for using these crap DVRs is to "not rely" upon it to work as it was designed. Okay ..


The DirecTiVos only had a 30 minute buffer (unless you hacked the software), so no way it ever held a football game, or any significant amount of programming.

In 4+ years of using DirecTV HDDVRs I have never lost a recording (except for the time I had a blonde moment and deleted a program I hadn't watched yet).


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## jameskelly (Feb 16, 2008)

I agree with you sir, and I share your frustration. I don't think the users get it. It's about the way Directv does business, and they process of their equipment and sends out crappy boxes. As I said before, they are a money sucking conglomorate that treats their customers like crap. (I'm sure I will hear from eveyone now!)


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## MysteryMan (May 17, 2010)

jameskelly said:


> I agree with you sir, and I share your frustration. I don't think the users get it. It's about the way Directv does business, and they process of their equipment and sends out crappy boxes. As I said before, they are a money sucking conglomorate that treats their customers like crap. (I'm sure I will hear from eveyone now!)


No, you don't get it. While you and the OP may have had a bad "incident" with DirecTV it doesn't mean it's across the board for all of DirecTV's 19+ million customers. I suggest you take a happy pill, update your DBSTALK profile to show your new TV provider and start enjoying your new relationship with the money sucking conglomorate known as Time Warner.


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

It seems like a lot of grief could be prevented by hitting one button.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NFLnut said:


> I'm a DirecTV + NFL-Sunday Ticket subscriber since 1995. I bought the first (standalone) TiVo unit just a few weeks after it came on the market, and three DirecTiVos since 1999/2000. When I wanted to "upgrade" to HD in 2006, I was told that the HR20 was my only choice. I have hated that box ever since! Then, I bought an HR24 from an online retailer because when my HR20 died I was sent a refurbished, scratched up, cigarette-smoke reeking box -- older and in far worse shape than the one I sent in.
> 
> It's bad enough that after enduring five, going on six years of these crap boxes that they still haven't fixed the autocorrect on FFx1 and Pause! But today, I had two of these DVRs buffering two live games. I finished watching the first game and went back to start watching the second (well within the 4:15 to 8:00 time period) after about 20 minutes it just flushed the buffer. No one was touching the remote. It just flushed the buffer for no reason. I missed the entire fourth quarter of the game. And this isn't the first time this kind of idiotic nonsense has happened!
> 
> DirecTV's DVR's absolutely SUCK! They still cannot code these boxes to save their lives. And, in addition to the absolutely horrible way they treat existing customers, they are about to lose a long time subscriber because of it all! I used to be a big fan of DirecTV, now I can't wait for them to lose their NFL exclusivity! And they might lose me regardless.


Just out of curiosity, which HR20 did/do you have? The two models, the 700 and the 100 are very different.

Rich


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

jameskelly said:


> I agree with you sir, and I share your frustration. I don't think the users get it. It's about the way Directv does business, and they process of their equipment and sends out crappy boxes. As I said before, they are a money sucking conglomorate that treats their customers like crap. (I'm sure I will hear from eveyone now!)


We hear about the people with problems (and I have no problem with that, I like helping people with issues where I can.) But people don't exactly post that "everything is working great, just wanted you to know." We get a post every once in a while about a good CSR experience, but it's rare. Not because a good experience is rare.

Almost by definition, posters on here are not normal DirecTV customers. The average customer probably doesn't even know about DLB, or use it. Heck, I consider myself a more advanced user and I rarely use it.

Personally, I've never gotten a bad box. I had one SD DirecTivo replaced, have never needed one of my HRs replaced.

Yes, DirecTV is out to make money. We know that going in. But on the flip side, some of their pricing models works in our favor.


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## RMBittner (Mar 28, 2011)

jameskelly said:


> I agree with you sir, and I share your frustration. I don't think the users get it. It's about the way Directv does business, and they process of their equipment and sends out crappy boxes. As I said before, they are a money sucking conglomorate that treats their customers like crap. (I'm sure I will hear from eveyone now!)


You seem to be ignoring the actual cause for the OP's "problem": Once the game ended, the live buffer disappeared because there was no longer any kind of live programming to buffer.

You may not like DirecTV's equipment; that's fine. But this doesn't sound like an equipment problem; it sounds like a user who didn't anticipate what would happen in a specific situation and was frustrated by the outcome. Now he knows.

Bob


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"RMBittner" said:


> You seem to be ignoring the actual cause for the OP's "problem": Once the game ended, the live buffer disappeared because there was no longer any kind of live programming to buffer.


Don't be too quick to sound like you know what you're talking about. I buffered a Sunday Ticket game yesterday past the ending and it was there for me to watch when I came back. It was only about 45 minutes real time, but I was able to pick up right where I left off, even though the game ended about 15 minutes before I got back to it.

I didn't mean to be away for more than 10 minutes, but I was and the buffer held the game for me just fine. The current program does not, in my experience, flush the buffer automatically. Even if the game you're watching is on a Sunday Ticket channel.

I have 2 HR23-700 DVRs.


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## jameskelly (Feb 16, 2008)

I'm not sure why, but most of you (Not all) sound like arogant "Know it All's" You need to chill out! This forum has gotten too hostile. This is supposed to be fun and informative. But it seems like if someone has a problem against DTV, you turn hostile, and defend them to the death! Not cool.....


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## carlsbad_bolt_fan (May 18, 2004)

jameskelly said:


> I'm not sure why, but most of you (Not all) sound like arogant "Know it All's" You need to chill out! This forum has gotten too hostile. This is supposed to be fun and informative. But it seems like if someone has a problem against DTV, you turn hostile, and defend them to the death! Not cool.....


Hostile? Where are the "hostile" posts in this thread? 

What has been pointed out to the OP is that he could have done something else to avoid the problem. You ignored that and attacked DirecTV as if they are part of some grand conspiracy to provide subs with bad equipment. Take off the tin foil hat and pay attention. You might learn something.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

jameskelly said:


> I'm not sure why, but most of you (Not all) sound like arogant "Know it All's" You need to chill out! This forum has gotten too hostile. This is supposed to be fun and informative. But it seems like if someone has a problem against DTV, you turn hostile, and defend them to the death! Not cool.....


You're right about the hostile posts, as evident below...



jameskelly said:


> I agree with you sir, and I share your frustration. I don't think the users get it. It's about the way Directv does business, and they process of their equipment and sends out crappy boxes. As I said before, they are a money sucking conglomorate that treats their customers like crap. (I'm sure I will hear from eveyone now!)


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I usually stay out of "these threads" as they mostly end up the way this one seems to be going.

I see the frustration of the thread starter and understand when things don't work, we get pissed.

It is the basic nature of this forum to offer help, and suggestions.

"Record" does seem like a solution in this case [hindsight].

Now when someone starts a thread like this, it does seem to attract others that are also "pissed" at DirecTV, which is fine.

So the next stage becomes pissing between those that don't have a problem and those that do.

Trolls verses fanboys.. yada yada yada.

Then a mod needs to step in.

If you're having problems there seems to be a couple of things:
1) Check here to see if there is anything others can help you with.
2) see if there is something you can change in the way you're using things. This seems to be an area where there may be "push back", as some don't seem to "adapt well", and expect new/different things to work the way their old ones did.
I've never had a Tivo, so I had no "old habits" to change.
I've found my DirecTV equipment to be working fine and still have my 5 year old HR20s doing just what I expect them to.

YMMV


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

jameskelly said:


> I'm not sure why, but most of you (Not all) sound like arogant "Know it All's" You need to chill out! This forum has gotten too hostile. This is supposed to be fun and informative. But it seems like if someone has a problem against DTV, you turn hostile, and defend them to the death! Not cool.....


I thought you recently announced you were switching to Dish. Isn't there a Dish forum?

Edited: Sorry. You announced you had had it with DirecTV and had moved to cable in a thread titled "Goodbye".


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

+1

No real hostility anywhere here, point being if you have something important to you, DO NOT RELY ON THE LIVE BUFFER, ALWAYS RECORD IT for the various reasons stated in this thread. 

And you shouldn't care what DVR it is either.

Heck, what with stray IR, the occasional mistaken button presses, sitting/leaning on the remote, or Dog jumping up onto the bed or sofa and stepping on it, etc. I haven't trusted anyone's live buffer, TIVO included, for important stuff in over 10 years back when I had ReplyTV who I still feel had the best one. Not only could you buffer to almost the entire free space of the hard drive, but more importantly it had a great safeguard against any accidental button presses or stray IR signals initiating a channel change which would naturally empty the buffer. 

Whenever you were viewing behind the live feed it would prompt you to press a centrally located "Select" button on the remote within about 5 seconds to confirm the channel change. 

Can't believe no DVR manufacturer makes something like that today.


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## rsblaski (Jul 6, 2003)

paulman182 said:


> It seems like a lot of grief could be prevented by hitting one button.


But...but...he didn't have to do that with the Tivo. My gosh, you actually expect him to suffer the pain of pushing a button? Next you'll suggest he should stop his whining! If he would record his games, he wouldn't get the satisfaction of complaining about D*'s "lousy" equipment.


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## RMBittner (Mar 28, 2011)

dualsub2006 said:


> Don't be too quick to sound like you know what you're talking about.


And that's why I started my post by saying "You _seem_..." I very much left the door open to that being simply my own personal impression of your post.

Bob


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## Reaper (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't like the HR* DVRs either (that's putting it mildly). In fact, they're an Impediment to my going back to DIRECTV. The only thing I dislike more are TiVos, DIRECT or otherwise.

I miss the days when other companys like Sony and RCA produced DIRECTV boxes. The RCA UltimateTV for DIRECTV is still my favorite DVR, and I've had 5 different types since.


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"RMBittner" said:


> And that's why I started my post by saying "You seem..." I very much left the door open to that being simply my own personal impression of your post.
> 
> Bob


Actually, you stated that the reason the buffer flushed was because the live program ended. You were wrong. That's all.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Reaper said:


> I don't like the HR* DVRs either (that's putting it mildly). In fact, they're an Impediment to my going back DIRECTV. The only thing I dislike more are TiVos, DIRECT or otherwise.
> 
> I miss the days when other companys like Sony and RCA produced DIRECTV boxes. The RCA UltimateTV for DIRECTV is still my favorite DVR, and I've had 5 different types since.


My hope is that the FCC Allvid project/requirement restores that. How many VCR manufacturers were out there? (For that matter, how many are _still!_ out there.) Compared to a whole of 5 DVR makers now? That's not competition.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

NFLnut said:


> I'm a DirecTV + NFL-Sunday Ticket subscriber since 1995. I bought the first (standalone) TiVo unit just a few weeks after it came on the market, and three DirecTiVos since 1999/2000. When I wanted to "upgrade" to HD in 2006, I was told that the HR20 was my only choice. I have hated that box ever since! Then, I bought an HR24 from an online retailer because when my HR20 died I was sent a refurbished, scratched up, cigarette-smoke reeking box -- older and in far worse shape than the one I sent in.
> 
> It's bad enough that after enduring five, going on six years of these crap boxes that they still haven't fixed the autocorrect on FFx1 and Pause! But today, I had two of these DVRs buffering two live games. I finished watching the first game and went back to start watching the second (well within the 4:15 to 8:00 time period) after about 20 minutes it just flushed the buffer. No one was touching the remote. It just flushed the buffer for no reason. I missed the entire fourth quarter of the game. And this isn't the first time this kind of idiotic nonsense has happened!
> 
> DirecTV's DVR's absolutely SUCK! They still cannot code these boxes to save their lives. And, in addition to the absolutely horrible way they treat existing customers, they are about to lose a long time subscriber because of it all! I used to be a big fan of DirecTV, now I can't wait for them to lose their NFL exclusivity! And they might lose me regardless.


Several people here have suggested you ought to record the game(s) rather than relying on the live buffer. Sporting events are the only thing I usually watch live; however, because I like to watch my Steelers then the Bears in that order, if they're on at the same time like they were the last 2 weeks, recording them *both *actually makes it easier to watch them without missing one minute of action.

This isn't anything new to most here, but here's why I do it and how it can make your viewing more pleasurable. If you record both at the same time (BTW, always add at least a 30-minute extension on to the end time just in case), you then start watching both from your play list. Once you start watching one from the play list, go to the list again and start playing the other recording. Then you can switch back and forth by simply hitting the "previous" button on your remote. It will take you right back to the other game at the exact point at which you left it.

I always begin watching one game, then I switch to the other one when my first game is at a major break in action. Then when the second game comes to a similar break, I use the "previous" button on my remote to go back to the first game, and so on. Trust me when I say that this makes things a WHOLE lot easier for you.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Vader, I didn't know that recording and 'previous' worked that way! Thanks for the tip.


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## E91 (Oct 7, 2008)

I switched to D* a year ago. Had been with Dish (and had one of their nifty VIP722 Dvr's) for two years prior. Before that, had a DireTIVO box for a few years.

Although I liked all the DVRs to varying levels, I am much happier with the new D* DVRs than I've been in the past. The picture quality is outstanding, the UI is mostly sensible (although a bit cluttered) and the software is relatively bug free. I still miss TIVO sometimes, but I've not looked back much. 

I've never had problems with a buffer getting spontaneously flushed like the OP describes and I am generally can't imagine every giving up the HR24.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

lparsons21 said:



> Vader, I didn't know that recording and 'previous' worked that way! Thanks for the tip.


You're quite welcome.

It works just like going between your two last viewed channels, except that with recordings, you just jump between each recording. You just have to remember that if for any reason you hit the stop or exit buttons and end up backing out of the recordings, using the previous button will then take you between the live program your watching and your last viewed recording. This is easily resolved by simply going back through the play list and playing the recording.

Also, this works flawlessly with MRV, which is great if, say, you're watching one or two *other *games on a DVR, but watching your two recorded games from your play list and are being recorded on a different DVR.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> You shouldn't have to record a game to watch it. That's the way that *GOOD* DVRs are designed to work! In the ten years I've used my DirecTiVos (two of them from ~2001 are still operating with the stock hard drives, albeit in SD) I NEVER once had the DVR flush the buffer arbitrarily (except for a power outage, but that's to be expected).
> 
> As usual, the suggestions for using these crap DVRs is to "not rely" upon it to work as it was designed. Okay ..


I would disagree with that and I think everyone else here suggesting you record it would too.



dualsub2006 said:


> Don't be too quick to sound like you know what you're talking about. I buffered a Sunday Ticket game yesterday past the ending and it was there for me to watch when I came back. It was only about 45 minutes real time, but I was able to pick up right where I left off, even though the game ended about 15 minutes before I got back to it.
> 
> I didn't mean to be away for more than 10 minutes, but I was and the buffer held the game for me just fine. The current program does not, in my experience, flush the buffer automatically. Even if the game you're watching is on a Sunday Ticket channel.
> 
> I have 2 HR23-700 DVRs.


The user could have been behind by quite a bit, and they made an adjustment to the channel and he lost the buffer. This does happen sometimes. Just because it doesn't always act like that, doesn't mean this wasn't the cause this time. If you are always only 15 to 20 mins behind, I doubt you'd ever have this issue.

You should never buffer sports pack channels, because they change the guide data on the fly with those and it can cause issues sometimes. If they had more space to leave that channel on but blank 24/7, then you wouldn't have that issue, but that's not reasonable.

Being mad at anyone but himself for not recording a channel on a sports pack channel is misguided anger towards directv IMHO. Now if it was an issue caused by the lack of a properly working CIG, then I would totally agree with the directed anger at their hardware, but that's not the culprit here.



rsblaski said:


> But...but...he didn't have to do that with the Tivo. My gosh, you actually expect him to suffer the pain of pushing a button? Next you'll suggest he should stop his whining! If he would record his games, he wouldn't get the satisfaction of complaining about D*'s "lousy" equipment.


Except the same issue would have happened on a tivo this time too. 

Vadar is right about recording the programs and using the prev button to flip back and forth. You don't have to worry about rouge accidental button presses, channels going off air, and its even faster and less button presses (not having to hit the pause button before you flip tuners) than using the live buffers.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> I would disagree with that and I think everyone else here suggesting you record it would too.
> 
> The user could have been behind by quite a bit, and they made an adjustment to the channel and he lost the buffer. This does happen sometimes. Just because it doesn't always act like that, doesn't mean this wasn't the cause this time. If you are always only 15 to 20 mins behind, I doubt you'd ever have this issue.
> 
> ...


All the time that hideously long DLB thread was running, I kept asking why people wanted it and the answers always centered around football. I've been watching two games in the same manner, using the "Previous" button for a long time, and I was baffled by the whole DLB thing. I did try it once when it was finally turned on, but it still baffled me why people wanted it so badly when there was such a good alternative available.

And we suffered thru a lot when the DLB feature was finally turned on. Took a few NRs to get back to normal. We really ought to be careful what we wish for.

Rich


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

rich584 said:


> All the time that hideously long DLB thread was running, I kept asking why people wanted it and the answers always centered around football. I've been watching two games in the same manner, using the "Previous" button for a long time, and I was baffled by the whole DLB thing. I did try it once when it was finally turned on, but it still baffled me why people wanted it so badly when there was such a good alternative available.
> 
> And we suffered thru a lot when the DLB feature was finally turned on. Took a few NRs to get back to normal. We really ought to be careful what we wish for.
> 
> Rich


I think everyone that wanted it was thinking it would work similar to Dish's dual-live buffers. But it really doesn't, other than it buffers dual signals. It doesn't allow for literally instant swap like E*'s at all. While I didn't use the feature with Dish very often, it was done very well. I tried the DLB when I returned to Direct recently and it just isn't the same and it isn't very good, imo.

Fortunately I have no need for it...


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

lparsons21 said:


> I think everyone that wanted it was thinking it would work similar to Dish's dual-live buffers. But it really doesn't, other than it buffers dual signals. It doesn't allow for literally instant swap like E*'s at all. While I didn't use the feature with Dish very often, it was done very well. I tried the DLB when I returned to Direct recently and it just isn't the same and it isn't very good, imo.
> 
> Fortunately I have no need for it...


DLB isn't instant? If you are set for native off, seems pretty instant to me.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I think he might mean that when you try to use it, you get the message telling you to press the down button again, so you have to press a key twice to "activate" it. This is necessary, of course, only when one hasn't used it for 2 hours or if a recording is taking place on the other tuner.


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> DLB isn't instant? If you are set for native off, seems pretty instant to me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


Not in the same sense that Dish's was. I've tried it both ways when I was fiddling around after the install. And I noticed that once activated (yes I know about doing the down arrow twice to get it going), it really didn't switch instantly. It does switch quick, just not instantly.

Personally it doesn't matter to me at all since I didn't use it or PIP on Dish very often, I won't miss it on D* now either...


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## dualsub2006 (Aug 29, 2007)

"inkahauts" said:


> The user could have been behind by quite a bit, and they made an adjustment to the channel and he lost the buffer.


Yes, I get that there are limits to the buffer and that bad things can happen when you are using it. I understand how the DirecTV Sunday Ticket channels work and that buffering past game end isn't a wise thing to do if you want to see the ending.

The person that I quoted (rmbittner) stated that the program ended and the buffer flushed because of it. That's inaccurate. A program ending does not cause the buffer to clear by itself. The buffer can (and as I stated) does survive a live program ending.

I learned from another thread that rmbittner that made the buffer flushing comment doesn't even have DirecTV, he subscribes to cable so I'm not sure why he is answering questions about how DirecTV equipment works. Or doesn't work.


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

What some people seem to be missing is that the 'live buffer flush for no reason' issue has been around for quite a while. This is reproducible on all 3 of my DVRs and I reported it a million times. I was eventually told it was a 'feature'.  If you don't use the remote for X amount of time (several hours), the unit will just assume you are not watching and will just dump the buffer on a random half hour (even if nothing is set to record). If you are behind live for whatever reason, you are SOL as it dumps the buffer and puts you back up to live. :nono2:


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

rich584 said:


> All the time that hideously long DLB thread was running, I kept asking why people wanted it and the answers always centered around football. I've been watching two games in the same manner, using the "Previous" button for a long time, and I was baffled by the whole DLB thing. I did try it once when it was finally turned on, but it still baffled me why people wanted it so badly when there was such a good alternative available.
> 
> And we suffered thru a lot when the DLB feature was finally turned on. Took a few NRs to get back to normal. We really ought to be careful what we wish for.
> 
> Rich


For two recordings, you have to have room for them. If you don't, then you'd want DLB as that space on the hard drive is already set aside for that.

But I don't consider D* to have true DLB. The DVR is always grabbing that second tuner for scheduled recordings, updates, etc. You can't really depend on it. Plus an accidental channel change will flush the buffer.

I tell Tivo users the same thing; if you really want it, record it.


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## JonW (Dec 21, 2006)

poppo said:


> What some people seem to be missing is that the 'live buffer flush for no reason' issue has been around for quite a while. This is reproducible on all 3 of my DVRs and I reported it a million times. I was eventually told it was a 'feature'.  If you don't use the remote for X amount of time (several hours), the unit will just assume you are not watching and will just dump the buffer on a random half hour (even if nothing is set to record). If you are behind live for whatever reason, you are SOL as it dumps the buffer and puts you back up to live. :nono2:


They do warn about that. I believe they do it because they like to use an idle tuner to grab guide data and fill your disk with "on demand" content. And if dual live buffers didn't eventually time out, they'd never be able to perform those functions.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

dualsub2006 said:


> Yes, I get that there are limits to the buffer and that bad things can happen when you are using it. I understand how the DirecTV Sunday Ticket channels work and that buffering past game end isn't a wise thing to do if you want to see the ending.
> 
> The person that I quoted (rmbittner) stated that the program ended and the buffer flushed because of it. That's inaccurate. A program ending does not cause the buffer to clear by itself. The buffer can (and as I stated) does survive a live program ending.
> 
> I learned from another thread that rmbittner that made the buffer flushing comment doesn't even have DirecTV, he subscribes to cable so I'm not sure why he is answering questions about how DirecTV equipment works. Or doesn't work.


Ah, ok I misread. I agree with what you are saying, mostly because its all correct


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> For two recordings, you have to have room for them. If you don't, then you'd want DLB as that space on the hard drive is already set aside for that.
> 
> But I don't consider D* to have true DLB. The DVR is always grabbing that second tuner for scheduled recordings, updates, etc. You can't really depend on it. Plus an accidental channel change will flush the buffer.
> 
> I tell Tivo users the same thing; if you really want it, record it.


Then by definitiion, no one has a real DLB since that second tuner can always be taken away for a recording on every dvr out there. Actually, both tuners can so there really isn't even single live buffer by that definition, IMO.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

JonW said:


> They do warn about that. I believe they do it because they like to use an idle tuner to grab guide data and fill your disk with "on demand" content. And if dual live buffers didn't eventually time out, they'd never be able to perform those functions.


Has nothing to do with guide data. That comes in on the secret 3rd tuner. Yes, I am serious


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## poppo (Oct 10, 2006)

JonW said:


> They do warn about that. I believe they do it because they like to use an idle tuner to grab guide data and fill your disk with "on demand" content. And if dual live buffers didn't eventually time out, they'd never be able to perform those functions.


I'm not buying that. I'm talking about when just watching live TV on one channel with nothing being recorded and not using DoublePlay. If they want to use an 'idle' tuner, they should be using the background tuner. There is absoultely no reason the foreground buffer should EVER flush if there is nothing being recorded (or scheduled) and the background tuner is free.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

lparsons21 said:


> I think everyone that wanted it was thinking it would work similar to Dish's dual-live buffers. But it really doesn't, other than it buffers dual signals. It doesn't allow for literally instant swap like E*'s at all. While I didn't use the feature with Dish very often, it was done very well. I tried the DLB when I returned to Direct recently and it just isn't the same and it isn't very good, imo.
> 
> Fortunately I have no need for it...


That thread I mentioned constantly mentioned the TiVo DLB feature. I didn't read every post in that thread, but I read a lot of them and I never saw Dish mentioned.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> For two recordings, you have to have room for them. If you don't, then you'd want DLB as that space on the hard drive is already set aside for that.


Sorry. I was just thinking of myself again. I have plenty of room to record two six hour football games on any of ten HRs. I do use the three hour padding just in case. I also do that on all the Yankees games.

Rich


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

I've noticed that on all of the MLB Extra Innings games I've recorded, the time frame for the game is listed as 6 hours, usually, in the guide. Consequently, I don't have to pad the stop time when recording.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> RobertE has very likely hit it on the head. When the channel goes away, the buffer is flushed.
> 
> Couple of things come to mind.
> 
> ...


I haven't been back to this thread (I started) since I read the second response .. so now I see that it has three pages.

I understand what you're saying, but the bottom line is that DirecTV's programmers can't program their way out of a wet paper bag (whatever that means .. hopefully you get the metaphor). They have spent (now) the better part of five/six years giving us "new features" that we may or may not want. Features that only a select audience have a use for (multiroom, etc) while CORE FUNCTIONALITY still suffers from bugs that STILL haven't been fixed! I still can't for the life of me, for example, understand why they can't fix the bug that gives autocorrection after exiting PAUSE and FFx1! This makes trying to move around during football games a P.I.T.A.!

For the record .. I hadn't changed channels. I hadn't even touched the remote, and it was still well within the window of the programming. So probably what happened (and your post explains this) is that the other tuner started recording something and then flushed the buffer I was using. This is just DUMB, and is another example of DirecTV's programmers being incapable of designing and programming a DVR that functions properly! All of the whiz-bang new features in the world mean nothing if core functionality is not there (it's now 5+ years of the HR2x DVRs)!

And right now, I am watching one of the "live buffers" behind live. It is now 11:50pm and the DVR timeline (green weiner) thinks it's 10:45pm (and the clock on the news channel shows that what I am watching what occurred at 11:25pm). P.O.S.!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

y2k02c5 said:


> Tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back
> 
> As mentioned, Why didn't you just record the games instead of relying on the buffer?
> 
> ...


Because I don't have enough drive space at all times to record games that I don't necessarily WANT to record! And this would be moot if the DirecTV programmers knew what in the hell they were doing!

As to the last sentence of your post .. first: the DAY that DirecTV loses NFL-ST, I'm gone! This coming from someone whom has previously recommended DirecTV to quite possibly over a hundred people. Second, I'm sorry if my NOT settling for mediocrity upsets you! But if that's the way YOU roll, knock yourself out! I happen to expect, or at least hope for, better. Maybe someday the DirecTV programmers will get their heads out of .. well .. a very dark place.  A guy can dream ..

EDIT: And let me add .. I think that these DVR's MECHANICALLY show(ed) great promise. But the programming has been buggy since day one, and often defies logic. The HR2x series is well into what should be "maturity" now, yet a number of core bugs STILL haven't been fixed!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

JonW said:


> Heck, sometimes I've shot myself in the foot by pressing Prev Chan or Ch+/Ch- and erasing the buffer.


Well, in that regard, I have accidentally hit that *%@#, useless ACTIVE button! (Although that hasn't happened in a couple of years) I can't for the life of me figure out why DirecTV thought that we needed such a useless thing (I haven't even figured out what the channel does, nor why it is necessary)! I also can't figure out why they thought placing that button immediately below the PAUSE and PLAY button was a good idea!


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

Two words: Harmony Remote

THAT will solve your problem about remote buttons being in a poor location.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Titan25 said:


> The DirecTiVos only had a 30 minute buffer (unless you hacked the software), so no way it ever held a football game, or any significant amount of programming.
> 
> In 4+ years of using DirecTV HDDVRs I have never lost a recording (except for the time I had a blonde moment and deleted a program I hadn't watched yet).


And I always managed to stay within the 30 min buffer because I knew that it was the way the DirecTiVo was designed. The HR2x was designed with a 90 min buffer .. which is great, but it failed me because of a software bug (yes, I consider it a bug).

BTW -- one of my DirecTiVos is hacked and has the longer buffer.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Two words: Harmony Remote
> 
> THAT will solve your problem about remote buttons being in a poor location.


Yeah. I've been looking at those of late. I might mortgage the house and buy one.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> Because I don't have enough drive space at all times to record games that I don't necessarily WANT to record!!


Plus in an eSATA drive, and turn it on and reboot on Sundays. A whole empty drive just for football.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

MysteryMan said:


> No, you don't get it. While you and the OP may have had a bad "incident" with DirecTV it doesn't mean it's across the board for all of DirecTV's 19+ million customers. I suggest you take a happy pill, update your DBSTALK profile to show your new TV provider and start enjoying your new relationship with the money sucking conglomorate known as Time Warner.


As I said to the last guy .. I've paid over $40,000 to this "conglomerate" since 1994. For a number of those years, I did so with very little problems. But pardon me if I just don't gladly accept mediocrity, as you apparently do.


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

NFLnut said:


> Yeah. I've been looking at those of late. I might mortgage the house and buy one.


They're worth every penny!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Plus in an eSATA drive, and turn it on and reboot on Sundays. A whole empty drive just for football.


I had an eSATA on the HR20 that died on me. I just might do that (again). I still wish I could just rely on the buffer, but I guess that is not going to happen.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

"NFLnut" said:


> As I said to the last guy .. I've paid over $40,000 to this "conglomerate" since 1994. For a number of those years, I did so with very little problems. But pardon me if I just don't gladly accept mediocrity, as you apparently do.


You arent really looking for a solution are you? ...because people have given you the solution to your perceived problem, but you refuse to listen.

It is not a bug. 
It is not really a problem. 
Nothing will change. 
You can either adapt and accept the solution or you can move along.

Yes, it is just that simple.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

dpeters11 said:


> Yes, DirecTV is out to make money. We know that going in. But on the flip side, some of their pricing models works in our favor.


I don't have a problem with DirecTV making money. That's what they're in business to do, and to reward their shareholders. I gave them money for my monthly sub, and I also paid handsomely for NFL football over 16 years, and I got what I wanted. I just think these DVRs could be so much better. And when you lose the last ten minutes of a game, you get a little ticked. SHOULD I have recorded the game? Probably (and I guess I have to now). TECHNICALLY? I shouldn't have to!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

luckydob said:


> You arent really looking for a solution are you? ...because people have given you the solution to your perceived problem, but you refuse to listen.
> 
> It is not a bug.
> It is not really a problem.
> ...


What's pretty clear is that a lot of DirecTV apologists on this board get their shorts in a knot when you state something other than glowing praise about DirecTV's DVRs. I have read the suggestions, and I understand what they are saying. And if I want to not have this thing arbitrarily flush the buffer, I will have to apply the workaround. Unfortunately, almost EVERYTHING with the HR2x involves a workaround. That's what is very clear.

It IS a bug. 
It IS a problem. 
Unfortunately, nothing will (probably) change.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

"NFLnut" said:


> I don't have a problem with DirecTV making money. That's what they're in business to do, and to reward their shareholders. I gave them money for my monthly sub, and I also paid handsomely for NFL football over 16 years, and I got what I wanted. I just think these DVRs could be so much better. And when you lose the last ten minutes of a game, you get a little ticked. SHOULD I have recorded the game? Probably (and I guess I have to now). TECHNICALLY? I shouldn't have to!


So they should leave the channel active because you didn't record the game that apparently means the world to you? Why not then record the shortcuts and see the last ten minutes in about 2 minutes. You can still see it afterwards...maybe even on the nfl network as well. How long should it remain active? They dont have unlimited bandwidth to leave channels on while people try to catch up on a program. If it really means that much to you, you record the event.

TECHNICALLY, it's a live buffer. Your channel dies on ST pretty much as soon as the game is over, which means the channel isn't live at that point...having had ST for 16 years and the last few with HD and a lack of bandwidth, you should know better.

I am no apologist either...check my posts. I just call them as I see them.

Yes, it really is just that easy.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

carlsbad_bolt_fan said:


> Hostile? Where are the "hostile" posts in this thread?


Wow. This thread is full of them. While I wouldn't necessarily term them "hostile," but I would describe them in other, not so glowing terms. I have learned over the years that stating anything less than praise for DirecTV's DVRs on this forum usually resulted in flame wars. Funny. I know that DirecTV employees/management peruse these threads. I thought that having a dialog involving (what I consider) a design flaw would be better than a thousand thread with vapid praise of an unperfect box.



> What has been pointed out to the OP is that he could have done something else to avoid the problem. You ignored that and attacked DirecTV as if they are part of some grand conspiracy to provide subs with bad equipment. Take off the tin foil hat and pay attention. You might learn something.


I don't think he "attacked" DirecTV at all. I think the tin foil hats are being worn by all of the DirecTV apologists whom bristle at anything less than glowing praise. The "you might learn something" could be applied to people who want to oppress threads with actual discussion of how this box could be better.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

luckydob said:


> Your channel dies on ST pretty much as soon as the game is over, which means the channel isn't live at that point


No. It doesn't. And this is the first time in 16 years that the buffered game has "disappeared," although it was well within the 4.5 hour time block. This is all beside the point that it is a design flaw.


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## luckydob (Oct 2, 2006)

"NFLnut" said:


> No. It doesn't. And this is the first time in 16 years that the buffered game has "disappeared," although it was well within the 4.5 hour time block. This is all beside the point that it is a design flaw.


Not true...this very thing happened and was a thread back in 2008.

Lookup: another HR20 bug screws up an nfl game.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I usually stay out of "these threads" as they mostly end up the way this one seems to be going.
> 
> I see the frustration of the thread starter and understand when things don't work, we get pissed.
> 
> ...


^THIS.

I actually thought twice before starting this thread. And it is also the reason I haven't checked back in a few days. I have seen over the years people get eviscerated because they dared post a problem with how these DVRs are programmed. But, as I previously said, I actually thought that posting a real-world experience in a forum where DirecTV employees DO lurk might at least bring to their minds that a problem exists. I'm all about finding solutions. NOT excusing mediocrity.

I don't post here much. I usually come here to search for a known issue, or just to see what is the latest news. I was a VERY active member over at the TiVo forums, and we helped each other AND helped TiVo to improve the user experience and ultimately, the software of those early boxes (first, the standalones, and then the DirecTiVos, pre-dual live buffers and post-). I remember the problems in those early years. But I also did not experience the near-hostility against anyone whom "dared" to post an acknowledgement of a deficiency that sometimes led to software improvement.

EDIT: I will add that I have found, oever the years, a lot of very friendly, helpful dialog here as well. But the offense that some people take when another member rises up to say "Hey .. this should work better" is just mind boggling. I don't have a problem with people posting workarounds, and I OFTEN use those suggestions. But the outright anger that some people get at others for not toeing the "company line" makes no sense. I guess my tolerance of mediocrity is much, much lower?


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Several people here have suggested you ought to record the game(s) rather than relying on the live buffer. Sporting events are the only thing I usually watch live; however, because I like to watch my Steelers then the Bears in that order, if they're on at the same time like they were the last 2 weeks, recording them *both *actually makes it easier to watch them without missing one minute of action.
> 
> This isn't anything new to most here, but here's why I do it and how it can make your viewing more pleasurable. If you record both at the same time (BTW, always add at least a 30-minute extension on to the end time just in case), you then start watching both from your play list. Once you start watching one from the play list, go to the list again and start playing the other recording. Then you can switch back and forth by simply hitting the "previous" button on your remote. It will take you right back to the other game at the exact point at which you left it.
> 
> I always begin watching one game, then I switch to the other one when my first game is at a major break in action. Then when the second game comes to a similar break, I use the "previous" button on my remote to go back to the first game, and so on. Trust me when I say that this makes things a WHOLE lot easier for you.


THIS was actually a helpful post, without all of the nasty rahrah-DirecTV, "you're-really-an-idiot-for-expecting-better" preamble in many of the other posts.

For the record .. I was just trying to keep tabs on a couple of 4:00 games after my 1:00 game ended, and had no (otherwise) desire to record. And yet, I get almost two pages of insults and "don't let the door hit ya' " snark and just a few helpful posts. And yes .. I dare to dream that in 20-freaking-11 that we could possess the technology to NOT flush a frickin' buffer!


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

"NFLnut" said:


> No. It doesn't. And this is the first time in 16 years that the buffered game has "disappeared," although it was well within the 4.5 hour time block. This is all beside the point that it is a design flaw.


I actually think that maybe you are blaming the box for having a bug when in fact it's entirely possible the real issue is someone at headquarters screwed up and turn the channel off earlier than they where supposed to causing the buffer to flush. What would you have the box due in that situation to avoid this issue again?


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> I actually think that maybe you are blaming the box for having a bug when in fact it's entirely possible the real issue is someone at headquarters screwed up and turn the channel off earlier than they where supposed to causing the buffer to flush. What would you have the box due in that situation to avoid this issue again?


NOT "turn the channel off" on a channel that subscribers are paying upwards of $350. (plus monthly sub fees) for? :whatdidid

DirecTV (and other DVRs) have longed advertised "Pause Live TV" but yet you dare not, otherwise it will flush your buffer and you will be S.O.L. Maybe some slick lawyer can file a class action for false advertising. They should probably at least have to put in fine print that: "Yes .. 'technically' you COULD 'Pause Live TV' with our DVR, but we recommend you record EVERYTHING instead as a workaround because we haven't yet figured out how to program it so you don't get screwed."


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## Lord Vader (Sep 20, 2004)

NFLnut said:


> THIS was actually a helpful post, without all of the nasty rahrah-DirecTV, "you're-really-an-idiot-for-expecting-better" preamble in many of the other posts.
> 
> For the record .. I was just trying to keep tabs on a couple of 4:00 games after my 1:00 game ended, and had no (otherwise) desire to record. And yet, I get almost two pages of insults and "don't let the door hit ya' " snark and just a few helpful posts. And yes .. I dare to dream that in 20-freaking-11 that we could possess the technology to NOT flush a frickin' buffer!


Try it this weekend and see how it works for you. Just one very important thing to remember--if you press "stop" or "exit" and leave a recording, you'll be brought back to live TV, which is no big deal, of course. However, using the "previous" button will jump you between the recording you just left and live TV. If you want to keep jumping between the two games and return to the exact point at which you left each respective game, remember to use the "previous" button only once you watch one recording from the playlist then the other recording from the playlist. Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy--and quite satisfying.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> So probably what happened (and your post explains this) is that the other tuner started recording something and then flushed the buffer I was using. This is just DUMB, and is another example of DirecTV's programmers being incapable of designing and programming a DVR that functions properly!


So let me get this straight... You have DLB active and 2 buffers going. Your DVR starts a recording and needs one of the tuners to do so. What do you expect the outcome to be other than flush a buffer and begin recording?

Come on...


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

Lord Vader said:


> Two words: Harmony Remote
> 
> THAT will solve your problem about remote buttons being in a poor location.


Actually, many remotes on the market that are much cheaper than a Harmony would solve it.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Then by definitiion, no one has a real DLB since that second tuner can always be taken away for a recording on every dvr out there. Actually, both tuners can so there really isn't even single live buffer by that definition, IMO.


OK, I'll add the words "not continuous" and "flushes without warning" to my description. When DLB expires in the HR2x, I'm fairly sure it doesn't warn you it's about to flush the buffer, unless I missed the message when it happened to me last week. Does anyone know if it does?

Also, in all other DVRs, DLB is continuously on even when the DVR is in standby. You have to activate it on D*, and it only lasts 120 minutes before it automatically shuts off. From my experience, putting the unit in standby can immediately flush the second buffer. Let's face it, it is a subset of the DLB features that are in other DVRs.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> So let me get this straight... You have DLB active and 2 buffers going. Your DVR starts a recording and needs one of the tuners to do so. What do you expect the outcome to be other than flush a buffer and begin recording?
> 
> Come on...


Does it warn you first? I honestly don't know. It should. Tivo does.

Now if you don't respond to the warning, the scheduled recording should take priority.

But if it's important, record it. You can't trust DLB in any DVR, especially the HR2x.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> ...
> 
> Also, in all other DVRs, DLB is continuously on even when the DVR is in standby. You have to activate it on D*, and it only lasts 120 minutes before it automatically shuts off. From my experience, putting the unit in standby can immediately flush the second buffer. Let's face it, it is a subset of the DLB features that are in other DVRs.


The expiration period (120 or whatever it is) expires only if there's no interaction with the unit.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> Does it warn you first? I honestly don't know. It should. Tivo does.
> 
> Now if you don't respond to the warning, the scheduled recording should take priority.
> 
> But if it's important, record it. You can't trust DLB in any DVR, especially the HR2x.


I don't know if you get a warning. You've already told the DVR to record something for you though, that would take priority.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> I don't know if you get a warning. You've already told the DVR to record something for you though, that would take priority.


If Double play is on, the unit will give you a warning when it wants to record something.

Where you don't get a warning, as far as I know, is when Sunday Ticket "switches the feed" from the game to a blank slate that is shared with all the other games that have ended.

That switch, which can entail a different transponder and possibly even a different satellite, will also stop the recording and a new recording will start. (I have that many Sundays. I know that the second recording is going to just be a slate with music.)

It is that mechanism that triggers the buffer flush. Sunday Ticket is not really "turned off" but moved to a space saving slate.

Cheers,
Tom


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> If Double play is on, the unit will give you a warning when it wants to record something.
> 
> Where you don't get a warning, as far as I know, is when Sunday Ticket "switches the feed" from the game to a blank slate that is shared with all the other games that have ended.
> 
> ...


Same thing happens with NASCAR HotPass. I don't see it as a bug though.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

RunnerFL said:


> Same thing happens with NASCAR HotPass. I don't see it as a bug though.


The programmers might say this is "not a bug" as it is "programmed the way the spec reads." My response is that a defect in the spec is still a defect to the user.

As to this particular issue, I can see a couple points of view to both sides. I did like TiVos ability to watch buffers past the tuner change in the background. Kinda handy. And should not be a huge change to implement; one just adds a bit of logic to the buffer management.

On the hand, I've learned the basic lesson. If it's important, record it. Small recordings don't take up that much space and are easily removed. And sure saves them frustrations of hit remote buttons... 

Cheers,
Tom


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## greggo (May 12, 2009)

NFLnut- I'm with you on this. I'm not going to hit record each time I use the buffer. Never noticed the buffer disappear on its own though. The delayed viewing should work as any normal person should expect.

But customer expectations are not well enough respected. For instance, waiting sometimes for the box to become responsive and re-entering channel changes are evidently acceptable.

Reaper- Yes, the UltimateTV is the best to date. My wife prefers its consistent, predictable performance so much over our HR23 that she watches SD.

Bottom line is anything that will flush the buffer, like an errant button press on an RF remote, should cause a banner to appear requesting action from the viewer before dumping it. That's just common sense user niceness. Microsoft implemented a "Go Live" pop-up on the UltimateTV more than 10 years ago to avoid viewers from missing what they want to watch (which is why there's a hard drive in the first place- duh).


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## rsblaski (Jul 6, 2003)

greggo said:


> (which is why there's a hard drive in the first place- duh).


The buffer and a recording takes up the same amount of disk space. What confuses me is that some people are so against just pressing the "record" button and instead rely on the buffer, which obviously can dump for any number of reasons. Just pretend the recording is a buffer and make your life less miserable.


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## beestea (Dec 13, 2006)

The "buffering" feature of the DirecTV HD-DVR's was about 2 years too late to be introduced (after Tivo's had been doing it for a while) and still to this day doesn't work nearly as well as it could.

I used to use the DirecTivo buffers all the time (with 2 hour hack in place) and they worked great every time. I use the HR-2x-XXX once in a blue moon because they are implemented in a non user friendly way, and as the OP mentioned they do flaky things.

That being said I have just trained myself to record things I want to watch.

In regard to getting a refurbished HD-DVR from DirecTV... I haven't had the best luck either. I've had 3 replaced, 1 recently. The most recent one was definitely in way worse shape then my original one (which had the HDD die on it). It seems in my experience the refurb quality has gone down hill. Plus I'd think they would really want to send out the latest and greatest HD-DVR's to keep customers happy, especially since the HR-25 is so much faster.


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## beestea (Dec 13, 2006)

greggo said:


> Reaper- Yes, the UltimateTV is the best to date. My wife prefers its consistent, predictable performance so much over our HR23 that she watches SD.


Agreed, the UltimateTV was a really awesome DVR for it's time.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> OK, I'll add the words "not continuous" and "flushes without warning" to my description. When DLB expires in the HR2x, I'm fairly sure it doesn't warn you it's about to flush the buffer, unless I missed the message when it happened to me last week. Does anyone know if it does?
> 
> Also, in all other DVRs, DLB is continuously on even when the DVR is in standby. You have to activate it on D*, and it only lasts 120 minutes before it automatically shuts off. From my experience, putting the unit in standby can immediately flush the second buffer. Let's face it, it is a subset of the DLB features that are in other DVRs.


If the unit is in standby, then you don't need 2 buffers anyway, heck, debatable if you even need one. I expect someday that when you put a unit in standby, it will turn the hard drvie off and save that power, which is what they should do. My Old replaytvs did that.

Also, understand, that second sat is used for other things that tivo uses an internet connection for, going against your internet cap. I think I know which I prefer.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> The programmers might say this is "not a bug" as it is "programmed the way the spec reads." My response is that a defect in the spec is still a defect to the user.
> 
> As to this particular issue, I can see a couple points of view to both sides. I did like TiVos ability to watch buffers past the tuner change in the background. Kinda handy. And should not be a huge change to implement; one just adds a bit of logic to the buffer management.
> 
> ...


This is why I wish there was a way fro DIrectv to keep all channels, especially the sports packs one active all the time. It's to bad they can;t **** to a low res low bandwidth placeholder without changing the actual channel and sat designation so these things don;t happen, but alas I doubt thats possible.

The one thing Tivo does betetr is buffering through channel chnages, DLB or SLB. I think they should always work that way, so iuf you ever accidently change the channel, you won;t losoe everythign that was in the buffer.

OR



greggo said:


> NFLnut- I'm with you on this. I'm not going to hit record each time I use the buffer. Never noticed the buffer disappear on its own though. The delayed viewing should work as any normal person should expect.
> 
> But customer expectations are not well enough respected. For instance, waiting sometimes for the box to become responsive and re-entering channel changes are evidently acceptable.
> 
> ...


Give us a go live notice!

Although that doesn't fix this particular issue, so maybe, give us both!

I don't think the OP would have had this problem if he was flipping between his local CBS and FOX stations, which is why I just don't consider this a DVR issue as much as a overall DIrecTV systems issue that should be addressed in how they handle channels in sports packs.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

beestea said:


> The "buffering" feature of the DirecTV HD-DVR's was about 2 years too late to be introduced (after Tivo's had been doing it for a while) and still to this day doesn't work nearly as well as it could.
> 
> I used to use the DirecTivo buffers all the time (with 2 hour hack in place) and they worked great every time. I use the HR-2x-XXX once in a blue moon because they are implemented in a non user friendly way, and as the OP mentioned they do flaky things.
> 
> ...


Well .. this has unfortunately been my experience as well. I am more used to the DirecTiVo way of handling the dual buffers. I just never had a problem. The one thing I ALWAYS made certain of when I would rely on the dual buffers was to make certain that NO scheduled recordings were set to occur during my games. But even then, the DirecTiVos give you a warning when it is about to record something (even a suggestion) on the OTHER buffer and you could tell it NO. I really think that this is the way the HR2x's SHOULD be set up.

I have learned the hard way however .. I guess I have to record all games that I have even a passing interest in.

As to the replace-with-refurb experience .. that has been my experience as well. I sent in an almost pristine HR20-700 (albeit slower-than-molasses one with a failed hard drive) and got back an HR-100 that looked like it had been dragged for ten miles behind a pickup truck, and reeked of cig smoke. 
I ended up having them take it back and bought ($200) an HR24 two weeks ago. Except that twenty minutes ago, the HR24 rebooted for no apparent reason right in the middle of my football game. So needless to say, I'm not real happy again tonight! :nono2:


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Your HR24 rebooted? You do have your share of issues. Is it and the power inserter on a UPS? I havent had a box reboot since the original HR20 software that wasnt caused by a power glitch. I have all my boxes on a UPS now.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> Well .. this has unfortunately been my experience as well. I am more used to the DirecTiVo way of handling the dual buffers. I just never had a problem. The one thing I ALWAYS made certain of when I would rely on the dual buffers was to make certain that NO scheduled recordings were set to occur during my games. But even then, the DirecTiVos give you a warning when it is about to record something (even a suggestion) on the OTHER buffer and you could tell it NO. I really think that this is the way the HR2x's SHOULD be set up.



That's exactly what the HR2x do. A message comes up asking which tuner to use when you've got DoublePlay going.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

sigma1914 said:


> That's exactly what the HR2x do. A message comes up asking which tuner to use when you've got DoublePlay going.


"In theory" it probably does, but it didn't occur this time. I know .. I was sitting there on my fat ass for 4 hours watching two games and nary a message.

But yes .. I DO agree that a message should ALWAYS happen if the buffer, or the game, is about to be flushed! We've sent a man to walk .. heck, even DRIVE A CAR on the moon. This HAS to be something that mankind can conquer. DirecTV makes a lot of bacon from sports package subs. They need to make the user experience better than this. If they are going to give us DLB's, they need to work better than this!

As Tom described above .. it didn't change channels, so there was no message to be displayed. DirecTV just switched the feed to another sat and the HR2x's HAVE A BUG .. or at least, a software design flaw .. that treats that event the same as a channel change.


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Your HR24 rebooted? You do have your share of issues. Is it and the power inserter on a UPS? I havent had a box reboot since the original HR20 software that wasnt caused by a power glitch. I have all my boxes on a UPS now.


It wasn't power related. The HR20 next to it is connected to the same power strip. A UPS wouldn't have made a difference in this case either.

I used to have all of my DVRs on UPS's, but it never really did me any good. When we lose power, it's usually during a hurricane and then it's for anywhere from 4 hours to 4 days.

I guess I'm just cursed!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

beestea said:


> Agreed, the UltimateTV was a really awesome DVR for it's time.


As a TiVo early adopter, and one of the first owners of the DirecTiVo, I remember when UltimateTV enabled dual tuners before DirecTV/TiVo did. Boy .. that frustrated me BIG time! More than a couple of times, I considered "going over to the dark side!" :grin:


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> The programmers might say this is "not a bug" as it is "programmed the way the spec reads." My response is that a defect in the spec is still a defect to the user.
> 
> As to this particular issue, I can see a couple points of view to both sides. I did like TiVos ability to watch buffers past the tuner change in the background. Kinda handy. And should not be a huge change to implement; one just adds a bit of logic to the buffer management.
> 
> ...


This explains why it occurred. It didn't change channels, nor start a new recording which in turn would have flushed the buffer (which I would understand). I even understand why they effectively TURN OFF the feed on the NFL-ST channels after the game is over (although still within the allotted time on the channel) because I know that they consume a huge amount of satellite bandwidth. But it seems like they could do that without flushing the buffer on the DVR. The channel number hasn't changed on the individual box, just the feed has changed from the satellite. It seems fairly easy (although I'm not a programmer, so what do I know) to code the box to not delete the collected buffer if the DVR is still on the same channel number.

As far as being able to watch the buffer past the channel change, a la TiVo .. this honestly is the way I think the HR2x's should be as well. I never understood the way the HR2x, when you are watching a delayed live show, would warn you that it was about to change channels for a recording, and if you allowed that you would lose the end of the show you are watching. That just doesn't make sense to me! The way TiVo allowed you to say YES to the recording, and yet still finish your show just seems the way that a DVR SHOULD work! With the HR2x, you have to make sure that you quick press record and save the end and then watch the recording. In theory this works, but again (as with almost everything) it is essentially a "workaround." Hardly elegant.


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## ntwrkd (Apr 19, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> I'm a DirecTV + NFL-Sunday Ticket subscriber since 1995. I bought the first (standalone) TiVo unit just a few weeks after it came on the market, and three DirecTiVos since 1999/2000. When I wanted to "upgrade" to HD in 2006, I was told that the HR20 was my only choice. I have hated that box ever since! Then, I bought an HR24 from an online retailer because when my HR20 died I was sent a refurbished, scratched up, cigarette-smoke reeking box -- older and in far worse shape than the one I sent in.
> 
> It's bad enough that after enduring five, going on six years of these crap boxes that they still haven't fixed the autocorrect on FFx1 and Pause! But today, I had two of these DVRs buffering two live games. I finished watching the first game and went back to start watching the second (well within the 4:15 to 8:00 time period) after about 20 minutes it just flushed the buffer. No one was touching the remote. It just flushed the buffer for no reason. I missed the entire fourth quarter of the game. And this isn't the first time this kind of idiotic nonsense has happened!
> 
> DirecTV's DVR's absolutely SUCK! They still cannot code these boxes to save their lives. And, in addition to the absolutely horrible way they treat existing customers, they are about to lose a long time subscriber because of it all! I used to be a big fan of DirecTV, now I can't wait for them to lose their NFL exclusivity! And they might lose me regardless.


Bye!


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

ntwrkd said:


> Bye!


Thanks for the helpful input.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> I havent had a box reboot since the original HR20 software that wasnt caused by a power glitch.


That's impossible. DirecTV has sent out nationwide emergency reboots in that timeframe, which would have definitely caused your box to reboot.


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> That's impossible. DirecTV has sent out nationwide emergency reboots in that timeframe, which would have definitely caused your box to reboot.


Im not talking about scheduled or induced reboots. I am talking about reboots due to software bugs or equipment overheating/malfunction. Obviously it gets rebooted when DirecTv forces one, or I force one.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

NFLnut said:


> This explains why it occurred. It didn't change channels, nor start a new recording which in turn would have flushed the buffer (which I would understand). I even understand why they effectively TURN OFF the feed on the NFL-ST channels after the game is over (although still within the allotted time on the channel) because I know that they consume a huge amount of satellite bandwidth. But it seems like they could do that without flushing the buffer on the DVR. The channel number hasn't changed on the individual box, just the feed has changed from the satellite. It seems fairly easy (although I'm not a programmer, so what do I know) to code the box to not delete the collected buffer if the DVR is still on the same channel number. ...


Yes its true the channel may not have changed, but I wonder if the problem here is that the equivalent of a channel change still takes place at the end of an individual NFL-ST game telecast.

For example I notice that for NFL-ST subs, sometime both before and after a game, DIRECTV puts up a still graphic with their logo, but only in 480p SD native resolution to conserve bandwidth until the actual games starts I assume. So maybe when the game ends and the feed then drops from its native HD resolution to a 480p SD one for the graphic, thats felt like a channel change and empties the former buffer contents to begin buffering anew on a 480p SD channel.

Just a thought ...


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Discuss the TOPIC not each other.

:backtotop

Mike


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NFLnut said:


> It wasn't power related. The HR20 next to it is connected to the same power strip. A UPS wouldn't have made a difference in this case either.
> 
> I used to have all of my DVRs on UPS's, but it never really did me any good. When we lose power, it's usually during a hurricane and then it's for anywhere from 4 hours to 4 days.
> 
> I guess I'm just cursed!


Is that an HR24-500 that you have?

Rich


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## Davenlr (Sep 16, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Is that an HR24-500 that you have?
> 
> Rich


Im not sure which one he is talking about, but its my HR24-500 I was saying never reboots on its own, unless told to by me or D*. Is there an issue with HR24-500's I havent heard about?


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Is that an HR24-500 that you have?
> 
> Rich


Yes. Should I be concerned?


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Yes its true the channel may not have changed, but I wonder if the problem here is that the equivalent of a channel change still takes place at the end of an individual NFL-ST game telecast.
> 
> For example I notice that for NFL-ST subs, sometime both before and after a game, DIRECTV puts up a still graphic with their logo, but only in 480p SD native resolution to conserve bandwidth until the actual games starts I assume. So maybe when the game ends and the feed then drops from its native HD resolution to a 480p SD one for the graphic, thats felt like a channel change and empties the former buffer contents to begin buffering anew on a 480p SD channel.
> 
> Just a thought ...


It just "seems like" they "should" be able to program the DVR to NOT flush the buffer since the channel number hasn't changed.


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## boycmike (Jul 26, 2009)

Ok so I have a hr24-500 and it froze pic and sound. RBR and worked til freeze again. RBR and went to bed only to find no remote or face response in the morning RBR and back up til...so u get the picture...called DTV and was charged 49.95 to replace this broken box? because i don't pay 5.99 a month? It's their equipment and I believe I've seen issues w/ this box overheating. Can't find issue via search here. Any help would be appreciated. TIA


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

NFLnut said:


> It just "seems like" they "should" be able to program the DVR to NOT flush the buffer since the channel number hasn't changed.


But as I explained, that "seems" to be just like a channel change where it has to re-sync onto a different signal format.

Even with TIVO, I know of no examples where a DVR will maintain continuous live buffering across changes in the received picture format.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

NFLnut said:


> It just "seems like" they "should" be able to program the DVR to NOT flush the buffer since the channel number hasn't changed.


While the channel number that you see hasn't changed, the actuall sat feed going to that virtual channel no longer exists. As such, you can not buffer something that is no longer there. Be it with a DirecTv DVR, Tivo or whatever. The slide that you see is just a generic slide that gets mapped to a lot of inactive "channels".


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Davenlr said:


> Im not talking about scheduled or induced reboots. I am talking about reboots due to software bugs or equipment overheating/malfunction.


The reason they force reboots is *because* of software bugs. That counts.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

RobertE said:


> While the channel number that you see hasn't changed, the actuall sat feed going to that virtual channel no longer exists. As such, you can not buffer something that is no longer there. Be it with a DirecTv DVR, Tivo or whatever.


 Tivo intelligently just keeps buffering the new feed, as it should. There is no reason why the buffer needs to be dumped, it's just a bad design.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Tivo intelligently just keeps buffering the new feed, as it should. There is no reason why the buffer needs to be dumped, it's just a bad design.


Agreed. It should at least stop the buffer before the change.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> Tivo intelligently just keeps buffering the new feed, as it should. There is no reason why the buffer needs to be dumped, it's just a bad design.


Even if the new feed changes format TIVO will continue uninterrupted buffering across the switch?

I didn't know that has ever been tested, at least until the new HD-DTIVO is released for NFL-ST subs to see.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Tivo intelligently just keeps buffering the new feed, as it should. There is no reason why the buffer needs to be dumped, it's just a bad design.


The Mpeg2 feeds of NLFST don't get shuffled as quickly as does the Mpeg4 feeds. Apples & Oranges.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

RobertE said:


> The Mpeg2 feeds of NLFST don't get shuffled as quickly as does the Mpeg4 feeds. Apples & Oranges.


Quickly? What does that have to do with anything? A stupid design is a stupid design, period.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Davenlr said:


> Im not sure which one he is talking about, but its my HR24-500 I was saying never reboots on its own, unless told to by me or D*. Is there an issue with HR24-500's I havent heard about?


I've had rebooting issues with mine while using external HDDs on them. I gave up on my leased 500 and just use it as a client. My owned 500s just couldn't stop rebooting. Putting a 2TB internally solved that problem. I was on my fourth owned 500, when I finally gave up on the externals and put the HDD inside. Since then I've seen no reboots. Since others have reported having no problems using HDDs other than the WD EVDS HDDs I was using, I'm thinking about putting either an EARS or a EURS on my leased 500. Don't really need anymore capacity, but I'm curious.

I tried a couple TTs and a couple MX-1s, and had the same problems and I also tried several EVDS drives and had the same problems. All those external devices and HDDs are now working well in or on my 20-700s, so I know it wasn't the drives or the devices.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

NFLnut said:


> Yes. Should I be concerned?


I dunno, been a while since I tried the external drives on my leased and owned 500s. They might have fixed whatever was causing the problem. If you don't have an external device on the 500, yeah, I'd be worried. How frequently do they reboot and do you have external HDD/s on them/it? I've always had the occasional random reboot on most of my HRs, but they're very infrequent. And they are all on UPS devices.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

boycmike said:


> Ok so I have a hr24-500 and it froze pic and sound. RBR and worked til freeze again. RBR and went to bed only to find no remote or face response in the morning RBR and back up til...so u get the picture...called DTV and was charged 49.95 to replace this broken box? because i don't pay 5.99 a month? It's their equipment and I believe I've seen issues w/ this box overheating. Can't find issue via search here. Any help would be appreciated. TIA


I'd call back and try to talk them into just swapping the defective HR for another one. Some people do that and succeed. You might still have to pay about $20 for shipping fees.

I've had the Protection Plan from day one and it's worked well for me. Just my opinion, but I think it's foolish not to have it. But, I've got six owned HRs and if something happens to one of them, without the PP, they revert to leased units. So, for me, it's essential. But, even if I didn't have the owned HRs, I'd still have the PP.

What makes you think the 500 was overheating? Did you actually check the temperature? I've had that happen with one 500, just as you described your issues, and it wasn't caused by overheating.

Rich


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## NFLnut (Sep 29, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> Tivo intelligently just keeps buffering the new feed, as it should. There is no reason why the buffer needs to be dumped, it's just a bad design.


Correct. I've never had this problem with my DirecTiVos. The channel number hasn't changed, thus it is not treated as such, and the buffer doesn't get flushed.

In an unrelated matter -- I have been watching ESPN live for the last two hours. Several times over the last hour, I have tried to "instant replay" or even REWIND to watch something again. The "green wiener" at the bottom will all of the sudden jump back 24 minutes (it will instantly go from 7:49 to 7:25) although the programming remains current. If I then press FF, it instantly goes from 7:25 to 7:49. This is on my HR24. I have occasionally seen similar behavior on the HR20. This is more of the nonsense that drives me nuts with the HR2x!


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## rmduff (Jul 12, 2007)

NFLnut said:


> I missed the entire fourth quarter of the game. And this isn't the first time this kind of idiotic nonsense has happened!


Wow, you get to watch the first three quarters. It takes me until the fourth quarter for my DVR to change the channel to the game. :lol:


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## Taintedahab (Oct 2, 2011)

Jeremy W said:


> Tivo intelligently just keeps buffering the new feed, as it should. There is no reason why the buffer needs to be dumped, it's just a bad design.


Is it possible that tivo holds the proprietary design to that particular function?

Anyways there's a simple fix for this: if you actually want to record something just frikken record it, the hard drive is there for a reason other than a paperweight. I don't see why someone would be jacking around with the buffer and relying on volatile memory anyways.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Taintedahab said:


> Is it possible that tivo holds the proprietary design to that particular function?
> 
> Anyways there's a simple fix for this: if you actually want to record something just frikken record it, the hard drive is there for a reason other than a paperweight. I don't see why someone would be jacking around with the buffer and relying on volatile memory anyways.


That was my constant argument during that hideously long DLB thread. I still don't get it.

Rich


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> That was my constant argument during that hideously long DLB thread. I still don't get it.
> 
> Rich


You and me both. :shrug:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> You and me both. :shrug:


I guess we'll never know the answer....:nono2:

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

RobertE said:


> You and me both. :shrug:


Me three! :hurah:


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Taintedahab said:


> Is it possible that tivo holds the proprietary design to that particular function?


Anything's possible. But DirecTV and Tivo have a patent cross-licensing agreement, so that wouldn't be the holdup.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> Me three! :hurah:


And me four, but with the addition that it hasn't been proven that even TIVO's design will maintain continuos buffering across program format shifts such as with NFL ST's going abruptly from HD to a temporary SD feed at the end of a game telecast.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> And me four, but with the addition that it hasn't been proven that even TIVO's design will maintain continuos buffering across program format shifts such as with NFL ST's going abruptly from HD to a temporary SD feed at the end of a game telecast.


 The "we'll see you next week" slate is HD. DirecTV doesn't switch between HD and SD on the same channel.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> The "we'll see you next week" slate is HD. DirecTV doesn't switch between HD and SD on the same channel.


Well unless they changed the method since the first week free preview, as I can't afford the full time subscription  , DIRECTV would broadcast a 480p graphic with their logo along with background music on the ST feeds for some time prior to and after the games ended before the channel would actually go inactive altogether.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Well unless they changed the method since the first week free preview, as I can't afford the full time subscription  , DIRECTV would broadcast a 480p graphic with their logo along with background music on the ST feeds for some time prior to and after the games ended before the channel would actually go inactive altogether.


I've never seen this, and I've definitely never seen a channel switch resolutions.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

HoTat2 said:


> Well unless they changed the method since the first week free preview, as I can't afford the full time subscription  , DIRECTV would broadcast a 480p graphic with their logo along with background music on the ST feeds for some time prior to and after the games ended before the channel would actually go inactive altogether.


Yes, but how did/could you confirm that the pipeline wasn't 1080 or 720?


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Jeremy W said:


> I've never seen this, and I've definitely never seen a channel switch resolutions.


You've certainly seen SD sent on HD broadcasts, but that's not, of course, proving the send was not in an HD space.

How do you determine the specs of the send?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Laxguy said:


> Yes, but how did/could you confirm that the pipeline wasn't 1080 or 720?


My HD-DVR, the one I was viewing the ST free preview at the time, an HR22-100, was (and still is) setup on native with all resolutions checked and the resolution indicator read 480p when the graphic was broadcast, so it wasn't up-converted SD in an HD format.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> My HD-DVR, the one I was viewing the ST free preview at the time, an HR22-100, was (and still is) setup on native with all resolutions checked and the resolution indicator read 480p when the graphic was broadcast, so it wasn't up-converted SD in an HD format.


So you were watching a game in HD, and when it was over, your receiver switched to 480p?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeremy W said:


> So you were watching a game in HD, and when it was over, your receiver switched to 480p?


Yes, before and shortly after the NFL games would finish DIRECTV would simply broadcast a graphic of their logo with courtesy music and the resolution would switch from the previous game's HD resolution to 480p.

In fact DIRECTV is broadcasting the 480p logo graphic on the NFL ST channels 706-718 right now.

It's also in 16:9 aspect ratio BTW ...


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> I guess we'll never know the answer....:nono2:
> 
> Rich


I got burned with this 'flaw' once... Game had just gone into over-time when I got an urgent phone call... I hit 'pause' - 10 minutes later I hit 'play'... About 6 minutes after that my playback stops and I get the 'Sunday Ticket' screen. Needless to say I had few choice words concerning the lack of 'technology' in DirecTV's engineering department.

Pretty sad when you pay $300 for Sunday Ticket and god knows how much to DirecTV and their 'DVRs' that can't complete a simple task like allowing me to take a 10 minute phone call without making me miss the end of overtime!

At the time I had no idea that such a simple task would get screwed up by DirecTV. Now if I need to pause a game I hit record first and pray!

Does DirecTV have a 'Oh [email protected]@*!, we didn't think of that' department?


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Pretty sad when you pay $300 for Sunday Ticket and god knows how much to DirecTV and their 'DVRs' that can't complete a simple task like allowing me to take a 10 minute phone call without making me miss the end of overtime!


You have a 100% legitimate gripe. The "you should just record it" crew cannot say anything about this.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Yes, before and shortly after the NFL games would finish DIRECTV would simply broadcast a graphic of their logo with courtesy music and the resolution would switch from the previous game's HD resolution to 480p.
> 
> In fact DIRECTV is broadcasting the 480p logo graphic on the NFL ST channels 706-718 right now.
> 
> It's also in 16:9 aspect ratio BTW ...


Shoot, they remapp the darn channel when the games are over to a different transponder so they are all getting the same channel remapped. That's even more than just changing the logo format.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> I got burned with this 'flaw' once... Game had just gone into over-time when I got an urgent phone call... I hit 'pause' - 10 minutes later I hit 'play'... About 6 minutes after that my playback stops and I get the 'Sunday Ticket' screen. Needless to say I had few choice words concerning the lack of 'technology' in DirecTV's engineering department.
> 
> Pretty sad when you pay $300 for Sunday Ticket and god knows how much to DirecTV and their 'DVRs' that can't complete a simple task like allowing me to take a 10 minute phone call without making me miss the end of overtime!
> 
> ...


Again, Why I always record anything I care about. And again, blaming the dvr for a systems issue ion how directv deals with their guide data and changing tpns of channels on sports packs. Blame directrv headquarters, not the dvr.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Blame directrv headquarters, not the dvr.


DirecTV has been doing this since before the HR2x existed. Maybe the DVR that *DirecTV makes* should be compatible with the way DirecTV actually operates. The way the DVR handles channels remapping is glaringly bad, and I honestly cannot believe anyone defends it.

Why should someone have to think to record the end of the game when all they want to do is pause it for 10 minutes? The HR2x has a 90-minute buffer, any reasonable person should expect it to remain paused for 10 minutes. To say otherwise is absolutely ridiculous. What the hell is the point of having a buffer if it can be arbitrarily dumped?


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Again, Why I always record anything I care about. And again, blaming the dvr for a systems issue ion how directv deals with their guide data and changing tpns of channels on sports packs. Blame directrv headquarters, not the dvr.


Oh please&#8230;. I got screwed out of the last few minutes of an over-time game because of the ridiculous lack of planning by DirecTV. I did my part - I paid for Sunday Ticket and I used one of the most basic advertised features and missed the end the of the game. The only thing worse than this happening is that it was (and still is) 'by design' and working as the idiots at DirecTV want it to.

Sure I hit record now because I know and expect this kind of thing. I must have missed the insert in my bill warning me that my DVRs would not be able to successfully pause live TV while watching the most expensive programming I subscribe to.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> I got burned with this 'flaw' once... Game had just gone into over-time when I got an urgent phone call... I hit 'pause' - 10 minutes later I hit 'play'... About 6 minutes after that my playback stops and I get the 'Sunday Ticket' screen. Needless to say I had few choice words concerning the lack of 'technology' in DirecTV's engineering department.
> 
> Pretty sad when you pay $300 for Sunday Ticket and god knows how much to DirecTV and their 'DVRs' that can't complete a simple task like allowing me to take a 10 minute phone call without making me miss the end of overtime!
> 
> ...


If they did, you would have never experienced the thrill of having three 22-100s in your home....:lol:

Rich


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> DirecTV has been doing this since before the HR2x existed. Maybe the DVR that *DirecTV makes* should be compatible with the way DirecTV actually operates. The way the DVR handles channels remapping is glaringly bad, and I honestly cannot believe anyone defends it.
> 
> Why should someone have to think to record the end of the game when all they want to do is pause it for 10 minutes? The HR2x has a 90-minute buffer, any reasonable person should expect it to remain paused for 10 minutes. To say otherwise is absolutely ridiculous. What the hell is the point of having a buffer if it can be arbitrarily dumped?


Most people like that the directv dvrs wont record if the signal is lost, and waste hard drive space. So now, they need to reverse that?

I know what you are saying, but I disagree. I think they need to change the way they end broadcasts to 90 mins after the game ends and be done with it. That solves ALL issues, permanency and without wasting tons of time trying to rewrite code for an issue less than 1% of their customers sometimes might have because they won't hit the record button like the majority of the population.


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## Jeremy W (Jun 19, 2006)

inkahauts said:


> Most people like that the directv dvrs wont record if the signal is lost, and waste hard drive space. So now, they need to reverse that?


The signal is not lost, it's just moving. The DVR knows the difference, it just chooses to handle it by dumping the buffer.


inkahauts said:


> an issue less than 1% of their customers sometimes might have because they won't hit the record button like the majority of the population.


It's nice to know you have numbers on this.  And I highly doubt that "the marjority of the population" would hit record in Mike Greer's situation. Everyone would hit pause, and everyone would get screwed.

This discussion has reached an absolutely ridiculous low, and I'm going to have to get out of it.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> If they did, you would have never experienced the thrill of having three 22-100s in your home....:lol:
> 
> Rich


Right you are!


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> Most people like that the directv dvrs wont record if the signal is lost, and waste hard drive space. So now, they need to reverse that?
> 
> I know what you are saying, but I disagree. I think they need to change the way they end broadcasts to 90 mins after the game ends and be done with it. That solves ALL issues, permanency and without wasting tons of time trying to rewrite code for an issue less than 1% of their customers sometimes might have because they won't hit the record button like the majority of the population.


That's a good one! Even you, a die-hard defender of the almighty DirecTV, doesn't think DirecTV could fix a stupid little problem like this 'without wasting tons of time trying to rewrite code'. Glad to hear you also have no faith in the DirecTV engineers.

I'm happy to know that I'm not alone in believing that DirecTV engineering department makes other engineers ashamed and that they need to raise the bar in the department.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Jeremy W said:


> The signal is not lost, it's just moving. The DVR knows the difference, it just chooses to handle it by dumping the buffer.
> 
> It's nice to know you have numbers on this.  And I highly doubt that "the marjority of the population" would hit record in Mike Greer's situation. Everyone would hit pause, and everyone would get screwed.
> 
> This discussion has reached an absolutely ridiculous low, and I'm going to have to get out of it.


Now you're talking crazy! Pause live TV? When did they ever claim you could do that? Oh, wait.....


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

inkahauts said:


> Most people like that the directv dvrs wont record if the signal is lost, and waste hard drive space. So now, they need to reverse that?
> 
> I know what you are saying, but I disagree. I think they need to change the way they end broadcasts to 90 mins after the game ends and be done with it. That solves ALL issues, permanency and without wasting tons of time trying to rewrite code for an issue less than 1% of their customers sometimes might have because they won't hit the record button like the majority of the population.


Why would they hit the record button for the last five minutes of the game? Many people with NFLST like to watch the end of the games that are running long, as they also tend to be the most exciting. They usually flip back and forth, making recording difficult.

I am part of the "record it" crowd, but there's obviously a flaw if you can't trust the DVR to pause for just five minutes. I like your suggestion on an easy way of fixing it.

The other way to fix may be to get the Tivo. The stand alone Tivos don't have this issue -- it keeps the buffer even if the channel is changed to start a new recording. It'll be interesting to see how the new one handles this situation.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> That's a good one! Even you, a die-hard defender of the almighty DirecTV, doesn't think DirecTV could fix a stupid little problem like this 'without wasting tons of time trying to rewrite code'. Glad to hear you also have no faith in the DirecTV engineers.
> 
> I'm happy to know that I'm not alone in believing that DirecTV engineering department makes other engineers ashamed and that they need to raise the bar in the department.


I don't think Directv engineers are stupid, never have. I have plenty of faith in the coders and front line engineers. I think the people that make the decisions on what to spend time on sometimes just don't have a freaking clue, like most upper middle management that aren't in touch with whats happening in the real world. Just walk into a retail store and tell me how great their customer service is.

I am not at all a die hard defender, if you think that, you have never read my sig. I just don't blame everyone when I know limits of something and there is something so easy you can do to avoid ever having to be confronted with this possible issue. Life's to short to complain about something that has a simple solution. (CIG has no simple solution for the masses at all. period) That and the fact I think you are also just blaming the wrong engineers here.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Jeremy W said:


> The signal is not lost, it's just moving. The DVR knows the difference, it just chooses to handle it by dumping the buffer.
> 
> It's nice to know you have numbers on this.  And I highly doubt that "the marjority of the population" would hit record in Mike Greer's situation. Everyone would hit pause, and everyone would get screwed.
> 
> This discussion has reached an absolutely ridiculous low, and I'm going to have to get out of it.


The signal on that tpn for that channel is lost. it no longer exists. You can't debate that. So you are saying that when directv shuts off these channels and moves them to a different tpn and has them remapped that the dvrs should simpy change frequency and channel (it may not change the channel we see, but it does for the actual frequency that it is tuned too after it receives guide data telling it the channel is now somewhere else) and act like nothing has happened? If it was designed to do that, it would also buffer from one channel to the next, which yes, I think it should do, but it doesn't. When it does that,then I will expect it to not loose buffers when this situation happens. Till then, record.

This happens only to ST subs, which is what, 15% of subs or so? How many do you think have a phone call in the last 10 mins of a game in OT on the last game of the day? Heck, there aren't even that many games where this can actually happen in the first place. Do the math of how many games there are each week on st, and then how many of the last games go into ot, and how many have their channel turned off within 10 mins of the game ending. Yeah, 1% is probably hi? Heck, I suspect as many people pause as ignore the call in the first place.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

Mike Greer said:


> Now you're talking crazy! Pause live TV? When did they ever claim you could do that? Oh, wait.....


To many things in this thread. 10 min pause should not have been an issue, again it was directv killing the feed immediately after the game that screwed you. Its the people who use dlb and are 90 mins behind that should be hitting record when they know the channels aren't up forever after the game.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> I don't think Directv engineers are stupid......


I'm not sure who at DirecTV is at fault but I am sure it is DirecTV at fault - not their customers.

This problem - no matter how few people get screwed - is indefensible. It is pure stupidity on DirecTV's part.

It is only a simple work around to record the game IF you know that DirecTV is going to dump the buffer shortly after the live game ends. You don't really think this is common knowledge do you? When it happened to me a few years back I had been a Sunday Ticket sub for all of about 2 weeks. I had no idea that such a simple act of watching 10 minutes behind live would screw me out the end of the game.

There really is no excuse for this to happen and no way to defend it.... Unless of course you have those rose colored glasses on and/or are a member of the Church of DirecTV...


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

I don't record important things because I know DirecTV will drop the buffer.

I record them because there are so many ways I, or my dog, or my grandkids, or my wife, could cause it to delete.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

paulman182 said:


> I don't record important things because I know DirecTV will drop the buffer.
> 
> I record them because there are so many ways I, or my dog, or my grandkids, or my wife, could cause it to delete.


Same. Even if I am watching "live" I'll hit record if it's anything at all I may want to see again, rewind, pause, etc.

Perhaps now DirecTV doesn't clear the channel on ST immediately after a broadcast is over, perhaps they still do-there are techinical reasons why they'd want to conserve bandwidth.

I'm sorry some are so upset that they learned a hard lesson, but maybe it's time to let it go already.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

paulman182 said:


> I don't record important things because I know DirecTV will drop the buffer.
> 
> I record them because there are so many ways I, or my dog, or my grandkids, or my wife, could cause it to delete.


Good point - I'm also afraid I or someone else will hit something accidently and the buffer will be gone.... But then it would be my problem - not DirecTV.

In my case I was just a few minutes behind live TV and didn't know DirecTV would clear the buffer for me.


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

Laxguy said:


> I'm sorry some are so upset that they learned a hard lesson, but maybe it's time to let it go already.


We're talking TV here - not life and death. I let it go long ago. The only reason I even posted is because it is so annoying to see the DirecTV fan base jump to DirecTVs defense when someone has a problem....

Sometimes there is a gray area but in the case it is hard to believe that even the most faithful DirecTV believers can't admit that DirecTV screwed it up and could likely fix it easily. Blaming the customer who is using a basic feature that fails? Come on people!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mike Greer said:


> We're talking TV here - not life and death. I let it go long ago. The only reason I even posted is because it is so annoying to see the DirecTV fan base jump to DirecTVs defense when someone has a problem....
> 
> Sometimes there is a gray area but in the case it is hard to believe that even the most faithful DirecTV believers can't admit that DirecTV screwed it up and could likely fix it easily. Blaming the customer who is using a basic feature that fails? Come on people!


Mike's been griping about D* for a long time. And I can't disagree with him. He's persistent and correct in both his disdain for a certain model of the HRs and in this case. He doesn't really gripe about many things. Just the obvious things that really should be fixed.

Rich


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## Mike Greer (Jan 20, 2004)

rich584 said:


> Mike's been griping about D* for a long time. And I can't disagree with him. He's persistent and correct in both his disdain for a certain model of the HRs and in this case. He doesn't really gripe about many things. Just the obvious things that really should be fixed.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich - I do, for the most part, like the HR24-500s I have. The HR21/22/23s are way too slow. My HR22s still can't even keep up with the remote much of the time.

My other gripes aren't nearly as annoying - Caller ID issues, inconsistent correction when coming out of FFD over MRV etc. Annoying but not deal breakers!


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## Wmidwest (Oct 19, 2011)

It sounds to me like maybe DirecTv should be offering HR20 users better equipment in exchange for these types of incidents? Keep the customers happy.

Offer discounted upgrades to their HR20 DVRs in exchange for customer satisfaction? Lets say we get them to do this?


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## Jon J (Apr 22, 2002)

Wmidwest said:


> It sounds to me like maybe DirecTv should be offering HR20 users better equipment in exchange for these types of incidents? Keep the customers happy.
> 
> Offer discounted upgrades to their HR20 DVRs in exchange for customer satisfaction? Lets say we get them to do this?


This customer is perfectly happy with two HR20s heavily used for OTA as well as regular recording.


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## Laxguy (Dec 2, 2010)

Jon J said:


> This customer is perfectly happy with two HR20s heavily used for OTA as well as regular recording.


I have just one, but have had it since it first was offered. Yes, it'd be nice if all commands were always instantaneous, but it's been a workhorse.


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## Wmidwest (Oct 19, 2011)

It would me nice though if DirecTV's strength was its loyal customer base. I am loyal too. This gentleman is unhappy. He should be happy with his DirecTV service. I am guessing that the H20 life cycle is close to an end and probably/primarily these are hard drive issues. I have just now experienced my first this past two weeks with one. I am just hoping I get a replacement that hasn't been sitting on a shelf for 5 years.


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## Chuck W (Mar 26, 2002)

Mike Greer said:


> Thanks Rich - I do, for the most part, like the HR24-500s I have. The HR21/22/23s are way too slow. My HR22s still can't even keep up with the remote much of the time.
> 
> My other gripes aren't nearly as annoying - Caller ID issues, inconsistent correction when coming out of FFD over MRV etc. Annoying but not deal breakers!


I agree with the HR24's. The thing is, the reason the HR24s are so much better is because they are fast enough to deal with the shotty programming that is a Directv DVR.

The main thing that still drives me insane with these boxes is the poorly programmed way it deals with button presses when channel changing.

So you hit 265, the counter starts when 2 is pressed. The box now has a brain fart and doesn't interpret the 65 promptly. The box finally gets to the 6 and OOPS, the timer is at zero(because it started the timer when you pressed the 2 and didn't bother to reset it when you hit the 6 or 5), change the channel NOW. Screw the 5 at the end, try to change to channel 26. Then the box realizes it still has a 5 in the buffer and guess what, it changes the channel to 5 :nono:

That is just POOR programming. What SHOULD happen is when you press 2, counter starts, you hit 6, counter RESTARTS, you hit 5, counter RESTARTS AGAIN. Now, as for brain farts, the system should simply be programmed so that BEFORE it attempts to change the channel, it's checks the buffer to see if there are any more digits OR the enter key is next in the buffer.

Thing may be looking up tho(I'll leave it at that as I can't say more outside the CE forum  ).


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## Wmidwest (Oct 19, 2011)

Do you think the act of switching format allows for a very short interruption of broadcasting which may interrupt buffering? Has anyone compared these 700 block of channels with OTA below 70? Have to stay up a bit late. These local stations continue broadcasting even when there isn't any programming? Just asking?


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"Chuck W" said:


> I agree with the HR24's. The thing is, the reason the HR24s are so much better is because they are fast enough to deal with the shotty programming that is a Directv DVR.
> 
> The main thing that still drives me insane with these boxes is the poorly programmed way it deals with button presses when channel changing.


Sometimes it can partly be a function of the remote, the DirecTV remote is a bit chatty by default.


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## Chuck W (Mar 26, 2002)

dpeters11 said:


> Sometimes it can partly be a function of the remote, the DirecTV remote is a bit chatty by default.


I don't think it's the remote because I see it on RF with 2 Directv remotes as well as IR with 2 different Harmony remotes. The box knows I typed the 265 as it eventually processes the 3 digits... just not altogether as one number :nono:


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