# Fear and Loathing in my 721



## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Today's weirdness:

My 721 lost its RF output. (I use the RF out to feed the BR, Office, and Den.) Of course, it's the last place I look, thinking someone must have monkeyed with the splitter in the Utility Room, or maybe the RF amp went bad. Finally, I decide to connect the 721's RF output directly to the RF input on the HDTV. At this point, I see the boot up diagnostic screen. It rebooted by itself! Now, the RF output is working OK again.

Has anybody else lost RF output, even though the S/V/L/R outputs were working OK. Then, after a while, it just spontaneously reboots?


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## veith (Jul 31, 2003)

garypen said:


> Today's weirdness:
> 
> My 721 lost its RF output. (I use the RF out to feed the BR, Office, and Den.) Of course, it's the last place I look, thinking someone must have monkeyed with the splitter in the Utility Room, or maybe the RF amp went bad. Finally, I decide to connect the 721's RF output directly to the RF input on the HDTV. At this point, I see the boot up diagnostic screen. It rebooted by itself! Now, the RF output is working OK again.
> 
> Has anybody else lost RF output, even though the S/V/L/R outputs were working OK. Then, after a while, it just spontaneously reboots?


Yes. I feed S-Video to monitor, composite to vcr, and rf out to the bedroom. My rf went out and short of anything else, started troubleshooting connectors. They all appeared ok. When I put the connector back in the 721 rebooted then rf out was ok again.

Best regards,
Charles


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Isn't Dish fun?


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

My present tv just uses RF, and yes that has occured here.

I wonder how much tech support for these bugs costs E?
?


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

I think Dish must have two core values in their mission statement:

1. Penny wise.
2. Dollar foolish.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

I also have had several problems since getting my 721 in 4/04.....amazing how many times a check switch OR reboot fixes them....I haven't had the Rf problem though. 

Even with the problems, I like the 721 SO much more than my 508, and I have NO regrets about moving up from my 7100.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

finniganps said:


> Even with the problems, I like the 721 SO much more than my 508, and I have NO regrets about moving up from my 7100.


I agree. I upgraded from a 510. My only regret is that DirecTV doesn't offer Superstations or TVJapan.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Welcome to DBSTalk hell! Bob Haller and Gary Pen having an issue with the 721.


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Thanks for that insightful and helpful comment. I'll try your excellent suggestion. Oh that's right. You didn't make one. When you get a spare moment, if it's no trouble, would you mind terribly kissing my butt? Thanks. I'd appreciate that.


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

MikeW said:


> Welcome to DBSTalk hell! Bob Haller and Gary Pen having an issue with the 721.


Now come on, you can't put garypen in the same category as bob haller......BTW, I'm happy to see that Bob Haller has been making more constructive comments lately.

We're all just trying to provide information and sharing problems/solutions here aren't we???


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

I'm almost afraid to post my issues with my 721. 

I'm getting no DD audio. I get PCM fine, but DD does not work.

See ya
Tony


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> I'm almost afraid to post my issues with my 721.
> 
> I'm getting no DD audio. I get PCM fine, but DD does not work.


Have you tryed calling E* with these problems?


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

Oh great. Now we've got to listen to Tony bash the perfect 721 too. This truly is DBSTalk hell! 

(I assume you know I'm kidding, Tony.)


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Yes. I called Dish. The answer I got can be summerized with the following quote:
"duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

This was after 20 minutes of explaining that yes, the program was in DD. Yes, I was sure it was in DD. Yes I have the receiver in the DD mode. Yes, the audio amp is DD compatible. Yes, the DD Amp is hooked up correctly. Yes the DD amp is working propperly. the DD amp is working propperly, the DD amp is working propperly. the DD amp is working propperly. the DD amp is working propperly. the DD amp is working propperly. And YES IT WORKS WITH EVERYTHING ELSE! Yes I have an oprical cable hooked up and working and it is not (get this) "losing bits". I almost lost it. I figured it wasn't worth it. Other than this problem I love the 721. But just like my 7200 Dishplayer (that provides DD on the exact same programs on the exact same cable to the exact same DD amp--couldn't get that accross to the tech) it's a love-hate kind of thing. 

See ya
Tony


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## finniganps (Jan 23, 2004)

Tony - I know you won't like this suggestion but,.... did you ask for ADVANCED technical support? I know a lot of people don't like them, but they have solved every one of the problems that I had or at least given me an explanation that was reasonable.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Tony,

Is Dish aware of who you are and what work you do in your personal time to benefit the web community? It seems you should have access to the best tech available. Of course, it does sound like your box has an issue that can't be resolved aside from it being RMA'd. They should realize that if you can get PCM audio and you've selected DD output on the receiver the problem is in their box.

Good Luck...


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Thanks Mike.

I prefer they DON'T know who I am. I don't want nor do I deserve any kind of preferential treatment. At the same time I do not feel beholden to them in any way either so I can pound on them with a clear mind whenever something is not right.

I agree that the problem may be in the box. But every time I send out a piece of equipment with a minor problem and have it replaced, the replacement is invariably plagued with a worse problem. The 7200 I got in return for the one I sent out because of the "locals mirror" problem has a lousy picture in comparison to the one I sent out. And it still has the same locals problem.

So...unless the receiver spontaneously combusts or begins to fold space around it forming a quantum singularity, I think I'll live with it.

See ya
Tony


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## garypen (Feb 1, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> So...unless the receiver spontaneously combusts or begins to fold space around it forming a quantum singularity, I think I'll live with it.
> 
> Tony


They fixed those two bugs in an earlier software update.


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## joebird (Sep 15, 2003)

Tony - I'm only making the suggestion because it happened to me with a 7200 a long time ago : have you tried a different optical cable? I had one just go bad once, believe it or not. But my money is on a bad 721. ;-)

I'm thinking of upgrading a 508 to a 721. It sounds like you guys are mostly happy with yours, other than a (normal for Dish) bug or two. Would you actually recommend one? Also, do you know if a DP44+ (the new one) switch is required in order to split one run into two lines for the 2-tuner boxes? A local splitter (not the real name, and not a real splitter, I know) is also required. Are those available yet? Is the 721 software ready for them yet? I'm currently running two separate lines to my 921 with legacy LNBs, and would have to change switches, etc. I believe to change one of my 508's to a 721...


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

joebird said:


> ... do you know if a DP44+ (the new one) switch is required in order to split one run into two lines for the 2-tuner boxes? A local splitter (not the real name, and not a real splitter, I know) is also required. Are those available yet? Is the 721 software ready for them yet? I'm currently running two separate lines to my 921 with legacy LNBs, and would have to change switches, etc. I believe to change one of my 508's to a 721...


Yes, the DPP44 is the required switch to use the DPP Separator. Both are available now, and the 721 and 921 support them.

Another solution is the DPPTwin LNBF (which is NOT yet available). Because you are currently Legacy, you might want to wait for that - if you are only a 2 or 3 satellite user. The DPPTwin will drive the DPP Separator and therefore it's capable of feeding both a 921 and a 721 at the same time.


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

As to the optical cable, I have connected the same cable to another device and it works fine. As I said, I'm getting PCM audio from the 721 via the optical cable. Its not "losing bits" 

I really like the 721. I've not had any other issues with it so far. After a month of ownership, I'm still happy with it.

See ya
Tony


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## joebird (Sep 15, 2003)

Tony: sorry, I missed that detail in your post. Thanks for the view on your 721.

Simon: thanks for the info on the DPPTwin LNBF. I'll look into it.


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## veith (Jul 31, 2003)

joebird said:


> Tony - I'm only making the suggestion because it happened to me with a 7200 a long time ago : have you tried a different optical cable? I had one just go bad once, believe it or not. But my money is on a bad 721. ;-)
> 
> I'm thinking of upgrading a 508 to a 721. It sounds like you guys are mostly happy with yours, other than a (normal for Dish) bug or two. Would you actually recommend one? Also, do you know if a DP44+ (the new one) switch is required in order to split one run into two lines for the 2-tuner boxes? A local splitter (not the real name, and not a real splitter, I know) is also required. Are those available yet? Is the 721 software ready for them yet? I'm currently running two separate lines to my 921 with legacy LNBs, and would have to change switches, etc. I believe to change one of my 508's to a 721...


I recently upgraded from a 508 to a 721. I orginally purchased the 508 with some small trepidation because of quite a number of negative posts about their reliability. It was very reliable for me. There was an occasional bug or glitch, but they were so minor and infrequent I don't even remember what they were.

The 721 has been a slightly different story. I have experienced quite a few annoying but generally minor problems and bugs.

All in all I still give a big thumbs up to moving from a 508 to a 721 because of all the capabilities this box has over the 508.

Best regards,
Charles


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## Bob Haller (Mar 24, 2002)

My 721s green bar is missing much of the time, fixed by rebooting. I should set up a circuit for twice daily reboots

A new day a new bug


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

TNGTony said:


> As to the optical cable, I have connected the same cable to another device and it works fine. As I said, I'm getting PCM audio from the 721 via the optical cable. Its not "losing bits"
> 
> I really like the 721. I've not had any other issues with it so far. After a month of ownership, I'm still happy with it.
> 
> ...


I realize that the 721 supports the DD output, but I didn't think that there was actually that much DD on dish to begin with. What software are you running?

As for my own 721, I say get rid of DP and go legacy. At least in my case, it seems to be working MUCH better than before(of course, now that I got those 2 30" dishes up, I'd better not see ANY Rainfade......  )


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

The 721 I have is running the current sortware. I have Showtime, HBO and Starz. All 6 of those channels have quite a bit of DD 5.1 the rest is DD2.0 or PCM. (channels 300, 303, 318, 319, 350 and 351). Many of the programs I watch are sent with DD5.1 (Dead Like Me, Sopranos, movies, etc). Ironically, the Dishplayer 7200 I still have works like a charm for the DD. The only glitch with the 7200 is it will not output DD audio if you start playing a DD recording while the Dishplayer is recording something else. Once the unit stops recording the DD pops right up. Or if you start playing a DD recording before the 7200 starts recording another program it's fine. It just can't start a DD soundtrack playback while it's recording. Ahhh, the wonders of science.

That is why I originally asked in another thread if the 721 had a similar bug/workaround. It doesn't seem to be the case.

See ya
Tony


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## craig559 (Aug 10, 2002)

My 721 is great'No glitches, I have been lucky I guess. mY ORIGINAL 7
100 dISHPLAYER WAS BASICALLY GOOD TOO.


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## Specks and Reds (Nov 9, 2002)

Which shows other than some ppv or some of the Premium channels like HBO, actually are fed in DD? I only receive DD for the movies that I just mentioned. Is this correct, or do other (normal) channels feed in DD? 

Didn't know, thought I'd ask.

Thanks


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

The channels mentioned at the top of the page, many PPV channels and the HDTV channels are the only ones that have DD audio right now.

See ya
Tony


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

I believe that if it is in DD, the info screen will say DD where the closed caption, or CC, is usually at, yes?


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## TNGTony (Mar 23, 2002)

Yes, DD programs are labeled DD. However, a program labeled DD *does not* mean it is a DD 5.1 program. It could be DD2.0, or the very rare DD3.1.

See ya
Tony


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2004)

don't forget penn & teller bullsh*t is in dd 5.1


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2004)

larrystotler said:


> I realize that the 721 supports the DD output, but I didn't think that there was actually that much DD on dish to begin with. What software are you running?
> 
> As for my own 721, I say get rid of DP and go legacy. At least in my case, it seems to be working MUCH better than before(of course, now that I got those 2 30" dishes up, I'd better not see ANY Rainfade......  )


As Ronnie always said.... WELL !!! , I had many problems with my 721 (as far as switch recognition etc in the setup phase ) when I used it with legacy feeds, and hardly any problems at all since I switched over to a Dual Dish Pro Lnbf a few months ago.....

RAINFADE..... I live on the Gulf Coast in Alabama and heavy downpours resulting in rainfade/signal loss are very common here thru the summer months...... So soon after my Superdish Upgrade was done, I pulled the 105 lnb off the Superdish (Signal Strength was about 65 for the 105 lnb on the superdish ) and installed it on a Six Foot Spun Aluminum Dish I had back in the C-Band satellite days.... The Signal Strength on the 105 lnb was now up to about 95...... However, I must tell ya that Rainfade while somewhat less often is still an issue even with the 6 foot dish...... So with all that said I doubt you will see much if any improvement regarding rain fade with your two 30 inch dishes..... Oh BTW, I hooked my 721 back up to my dish 500 for 119 and 110 satellites.... the dish 500 gives a stronger signal than does the superdish..... While the Superdish was the 1 dish solution from dishnetwork it sure leaves a lot to be desired, especially when signal is lower on the 119 and 110 feeds..... Oh well, thats my 2 cents worth Have a good day.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

xcband said:


> .... So soon after my Superdish Upgrade was done, I pulled the 105 lnb off the Superdish (Signal Strength was about 65 for the 105 lnb on the superdish ) and installed it on a Six Foot Spun Aluminum Dish I had back in the C-Band satellite days....


I'd sure love to know the details of how you mounted the FSS LNB on a big dish - and I think others would, too. 

Maybe you could register and join us officially - you probably have a lot to contribute.

And then you could start a new thread regarding the conversion - hopefully with uploaded pictures.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

Good call SImon. I hope he does continue to contirbute.

As for the 30" dishes, all commercial installs require a larger dish in order to keep rainfade to a minimum. They start at 24" round and get bigger. As to whether it will work, we have yet to have a good storm so I can see what happens. Figures!  

As for the SD, I am also not too thrilled. I don't like mounting E* LNBs on a Starband Dish, and I have seen that it's as bad or worse on an SD. Just because it has a bigger reflector doesn't mean squat if it is not angled properly. And trying to have the same setup for the whole country is goofy as well. Starband dishes require spacers in certain areas for the E* LNBs, so I don't see how E* thinks they have a better system.


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