# Windows 7 Beta First Impressions



## LarryFlowers

Test Bed: 3 year old Dell PC, Core 2 Duo 1.8Ghz, 4GB Ram. nVidia 7900GT 256MB Ram.

OS: Windows 7 Beta v7000 from TechNet

Installed Programs:
1. Microsoft Office 2007 Ultimate
2. Free AVG V8
3. Adone Reader V9, Flash v10,0,12,36, Shockwave
4. Java v 6.0.110.3
5. Propalms ClntMgr Version 6.0
6. Windows Live Messenger Beta
7. Zune V3.01

1. Installation: I placed the DVD in the drive while in Vista and started the install from there. I selected a clean install. Completed in 24 minutes with no difficulties. Additional 12 minutes for configurations. After installation, I checked the Device Manager in the Control Panel, all devices were correctly identified and were functional. Windows 7 even correctly identified my new Dell 23" LCD and correctly set the screen resolution to 2048x1152.

Frankly, this is the cleanest and best Windows installation experience I have ever had.

2. Program Installations: all programs installed themselves in a normal fashion with no difficulties or extra steps. With 1 exception, all programs functioned as expected after installation. The single exception was the Netscreen Remote VPN client which failed to install the driver. This was not unexpected as the incompetents at Netscreen can't do anything correctly. They took nearly 1 year to build a remote client that works with Vista. I suspect that I can get this app working by editing the registry if I work on it.

3. It is necessary to install a few updates and especially make sure that the update at KB961367 available at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...8B-D574-4E39-B4BA-67B859A242B7&displaylang=en is installed before doing anything with MP3 music files. Some Beta users reported corruption of MP3 files. This download will keep that from happening.

4. The Zune installation went smoothly and my Music Library was located. Music and Music Videos played as normal in Zune and Windows Media Player 12.

5. The Vista Sidebar is different in this install. No preset sidebar gadgets. Some sidebar gadgets work normaly, some do not function (weather.com) I will do more with this later.

6. The venerable Quick Launch is gone. This area just to the right of the Start Button is a user favorite and I am not sure how I like what was put in its place. In the first Picture attached below you will see the Start Button with 4 large icons to the right. The first 3 are there by default: IE, Library Folders, and Windows Media Player 12. They can be removed. The 4th icon is Outlook and it is there because it is open. Each program you open will appear in that manner. You can Pin additional programs to the task bar as you did in quick launch but they will appear as large icons. I will have to live with this one a while before I know if it is a "hate it" item.

7. In the 2nd Picture, I have the mouse pointed at the Internet Explorer logo and it displays an image of the dbstalk page that I have open. This happens for any program icon on the task bar.

8. In the third picture you see what happens when you have multiple tabs or Windows open for a program. In the example pictured, I have 3 tabs open in Internet Explore... note the image of the icon has 3 blue IE "stacked" on each other. When you mouse over you get an image of each page... hold the mouse over the page and it will appear on the screen full size, move it away and it disappears from the full screen and click on it and it opens.

8. The Libraries folder is the new Windows Explorer.. this is a fairly major change area and will deserve its own posting at a later time.

Overall, the PC is quite "snappy" and feels much faster than its previous Vista version, though I can't quantify it, and most clean installs are always snappy at first so time will tell. Programs open quickly. The computer is extremely responsive.

Another note... Chat rooms have always been a Java nightmare for me and others. They will inexplicably lockup and crash, especially when you have more than 1 chat open at a time. Many have experienced it. On Friday night during the CE, I had 2 chat rooms open for over 5 hours... not so much as a hiccup in Internet Explorer 8 & Windows 7. Again this is just one night and it could be a fluke but I want to ask... did Windows 7 fix Java?

My impression of the OS so far is very favorable, overall I like it and I am not having any real difficulties figuring out how things work.

For those of you who would like to set up a dual boot machine with Windows 7, PM me with your email address and I will be happy to forward instructions on how to do it for both XP and Vista.

Microsoft's free Virtual PC 2007 is another way you can run 2 operating systems on one PC for testing purposes.


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## dave29

glad you install went well. windows 7 is very promising. 
for some reason i cannot get windows 7 to install as an upgrade or a clean install on 1 vista machine and 1 xp machine. i have an older version of windows 7 installed on another vista machine, it went fine. i am thinking that my copy of 7000 may be corrupt. everytime it gets to the "expanding files" task, it gives me an error code, and crashes. i may play with it a little more today and see if i can get it to install on a wiped HDD.


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## HIPAR

Can it be downloaded and installed from the hard drive?

When does it begin to issue expiration notices?

--- CHAS


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## dave29

HIPAR said:


> Can it be downloaded and installed from the hard drive?
> 
> When does it begin to issue expiration notices?
> 
> --- CHAS


you have to burn an ISO

it expires 30 days from activation without a key


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## nj1313

Once downloaded from the microsoft website (hopefully very soon), how do you get a key code to keep it longer than 30 days?

Also, will my programs that run in Vista not work running in Windows 7?

Are there bad compatability issues?

Thanks,
JD


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## itguy05

Interesting to see how much they stole from OS X. The Taskbar looks almost like a clone of the Dock, the icons in the Taskbar, etc.

Then again, that's MS's MO - take others ideas and tweak them a little and call them your own.

It does look interesting and a step ahead for Windows users. Hopefully MS has learned from the Vista Debacle (and Office 2007 Mess) and Win 7 will be good. If not, I expect OS X marketshare to continue going through the roof.

If you want to play, I'd skip the Virtual PC and get VirtualBox (www.virtualbox.org) or Vmware's free desktop product (www.vmware.com)


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## LarryFlowers

You must own a Mac?:lol::lol::lol:



itguy05 said:


> Interesting to see how much they stole from OS X. The Taskbar looks almost like a clone of the Dock, the icons in the Taskbar, etc.
> 
> Then again, that's MS's MO - take others ideas and tweak them a little and call them your own.
> 
> It does look interesting and a step ahead for Windows users. Hopefully MS has learned from the Vista Debacle (and Office 2007 Mess) and Win 7 will be good. If not, I expect OS X marketshare to continue going through the roof.
> 
> If you want to play, I'd skip the Virtual PC and get VirtualBox (www.virtualbox.org) or Vmware's free desktop product (www.vmware.com)


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## itguy05

LarryFlowers said:


> You must own a Mac?:lol::lol::lol:


Most definitely. Been a Mac user since 2002. Had Linux been there I'd be on that.

I get paid to fix the inadequacies in Windows by day. I don't want any of that BS when I get home - I want a machine that works, a laptop that reliably sleeps and wakes. I want a machine that wakes when I open the lid, sleeps when I close it and works 100% all the time.

In all seriousness it wasn't until I started with Linux and later OS X that I realized how bad Windows really was.

Imagine no registry, just editable, readable XML files for configuration...

Imagine programs that are self contained and can be installed/deinstalled by dragging and dropping.

Imagine multiple desktops (I love spaces on OS X) seamlessly integrated in the OS.

Imagine full time backup that works and works unobtrusively. It has saved my butt many times.

Imagine being able to upgrade without reinstalling your OS. I've gone from 10.1 -> 10.4 on the same machine with solid stability.

Like I tell people, there's no 1 killer feature that makes OS X better, it's all the little things that come together to make it a much better OS.

Like the iPhone - all it does has been done before but the usability is what gets people.

OS X is not perfection - it's just the best option we've got at this time.


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## Greg Alsobrook

Is that guy me???? 

!rolling !rolling !rolling

Well said itguy05!!


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## LarryFlowers

First this isn't a Mac vs. Windows thread. I am glad you are happy with your Mac. Call me when you get a 10% market share. It is the other 90% I have to worry about and that is what this thread is about. Windows 7 will be the new OS for a long time to come. it will continue to hold market domination and will continue to be the choice for most corporations. Testing the product is vital to making the use of the product as good as it can be. it is during this phase that we can at least attempt to minimize problems and familiarize ourselves with what we have to deal with in the future. That is my purpose. I am reporting my experiences here in hopes of helping others and as a place to those who may have trouble with the beta can come here for help and information.

I am sure that you and many others will have plenty to say about the faults of Windows 7 and frankly I encourage you to do so... just start a thread for it please so this one can be helpful to those who need and want it.

Thank you 
Larry



itguy05 said:


> Most definitely. Been a Mac user since 2002. Had Linux been there I'd be on that.
> 
> I get paid to fix the inadequacies in Windows by day. I don't want any of that BS when I get home - I want a machine that works, a laptop that reliably sleeps and wakes. I want a machine that wakes when I open the lid, sleeps when I close it and works 100% all the time.
> 
> In all seriousness it wasn't until I started with Linux and later OS X that I realized how bad Windows really was.
> 
> Imagine no registry, just editable, readable XML files for configuration...
> 
> Imagine programs that are self contained and can be installed/deinstalled by dragging and dropping.
> 
> Imagine multiple desktops (I love spaces on OS X) seamlessly integrated in the OS.
> 
> Imagine full time backup that works and works unobtrusively. It has saved my butt many times.
> 
> Imagine being able to upgrade without reinstalling your OS. I've gone from 10.1 -> 10.4 on the same machine with solid stability.
> 
> Like I tell people, there's no 1 killer feature that makes OS X better, it's all the little things that come together to make it a much better OS.
> 
> Like the iPhone - all it does has been done before but the usability is what gets people.
> 
> OS X is not perfection - it's just the best option we've got at this time.


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## Hansen

Larry

With regard to size of the icons pinned to the Task Bar, you can change it to make all icons and the size of the Task Bar small. My recollection was that I right clicked the task bar, selected properties and there was a box to check somewhere in there to change to small icons. Sorry about lack of detail...on mobile.


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## LarryFlowers

I'll try that... that's what we need here.. spread the info!



Hansen said:


> Larry
> 
> With regard to size of the icons pinned to the Task Bar, you can change it to make all icons and the size of the Task Bar small. My recollection was that I right clicked the task bar, selected properties and there was a box to check somewhere in there to change to small icons. Sorry about lack of detail...on mobile.


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## Hansen

Larry

Another nice feature I found is the ability to customize how the notification icons in the task bar notification area behave. In the notification area of the task bar you'll see a little up arrow. Click on it and you'll see an option to customize. Click that and it opens a window to change how notifications behave for each program. 

I'm really liking Windows 7 a lot. Just hoping that I can get one of the 2.5 million product keys so that this is not just a 30 day trip. Any word on when MS is going to reopen the website for the beta?


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## Mark Holtz

Here is the Performance score between Windows Vista 64-bit and Windows 7 32-bit. Other than the hard drive, everything is the same between the two setup. I don't have Windows Vista 32-bit, so I cannot generate a performance score. Also, the computer will be open today to replace the 2GB of RAM with 4 GB, which means that I will NOT run a Windows 7 64-bit report. Also, when I ran this report, there were some driver issues with the Windows-supplied nVidia driver. 

As for the hard drives.... there are two completely different drives from different manufacturers, with different sizes, and different caches. I use a hard drive cartridge on my system so that I can swap between operating systems by just shutting down and removing the drive.


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## dirtyblueshirt

My test bed was an early-2008 iMac Core2 Duo 2.0 GHz 20".

Install went great (was done over vista, after a failed upgrade). Apple's Boot Camp drivers from the Leopard disc installed without a hitch.

Issues:

The ATI graphics driver crashes. BSOD has occurred twice, in a total of about 20 hours of usage. Not unexpected for the beta.

Symantec Endpoint Protection v11 doesn't work, but AVG Antivirus is a working substitute.

I use the ActiveCard Gold software to log into some government websites as well as my work email (Outlook 2003 Web Access (OWA)). ActiveCard will install and run, it even will recognize and properly request the certificate when I visit the OWA page. However, I also need to input a PIN number, and the PIN popup never shows. No work email.

The sound driver (realtek audio) installs, and all seem to be working from the aspect of the system.... except no sound is actually heard.

Aside from those issues, I must say i'm very impressed with Windows 7, and look forward to its release. It looks like the polished OS that Vista should have been.


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## Hansen

I'm really liking Windows 7. It's a lot like Vista...so, if you've used Vista, then Windows 7 will be familar...yet you'll notice some differences. I have to admit I'm impressed with how well it runs on my test system. I'm running Windows 7 32-bit on a Dell Inspiron 600m laptop (mfr June 2004). It has a 1.5ghz Celeron M processor, 2 gb of PC2100 RAM, 40 GB harddrive (5400rpm), ATI Radeon 9800 graphics. It really runs extremely smooth and fast on this old laptop. It takes a bit longer to load up on start up compared to Windows XP but it's not that much longer and I can live with it. Once up and running, it is very quick for this hardware. I expected it to be significantly slower than XP but it's only a slight difference. The real limitation of the laptop is the old graphics card that I can't do much about but it seems to be holding it own well enough. So far, I can see no reason to go back to XP...aside from the fact that when the beta testing is done, I'll have to buy Win 7.

My install went well. Did a clean install. The only hiccup was the wireless adapter driver. The laptop uses the Intel Proset 2200 BG wireless built-in card and Windows 7 did not load a driver for it. I had to go to Intel's website on another system, obtain the driver and load it on the laptop. Once I updated the driver, it worked well. Surprisingly, Windows 7 had a December 2008 driver for the very old ATI Radeon 9800 video card in the laptop. I'm glad there is a current driver but the ATI supplied driver is somewhat limited in the various resolutions available, thus causing the icons to be a bit larger than I like. But, let me be clear that is not the fault of MS or Windows 7...that's an ATI issue and my old graphics card issue. Given how old the card is, it works well and I'm glad there is driver. 

I did have one problem with the touchpad and keyboard. Not sure why but it occurred after installing Windows Live Essentials. After it was done installing, the keyboard and touchpad stopped working. Forced a shutdown with the power button and restarted without any improvement in touchpad or keyboard operation. Had to do a System Restore to a point that said "before install of Direct X..." After restoring to that point, the touchpad and keyboard have worked without a problem. Must be some conflict with the DirectX driver and the drivers for the keyboard and mouse. Not really sure. 

So far, I have installed:

Windows Home Server Connector software/HP MediaSmart Server software
Avast Professional
Adobe Reader
Adobe Flash
Intel Proset Wireless Management 
iTunes
Windows Live Essentials

Anyway, Windows 7 is looking good so far. Nice job MS.


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## Grotto

I installed Windows 7 this morning on a Dell Inspirion 1526 laptop. I did a clean install, and Win 7 found all the drivers for everything. I was very amazed at that. I've never had a clean install work this well. It seems faster than Vista, which is also great.


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## xIsamuTM

so should i dump my copy of vista black?


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## dirtyblueshirt

xIsamuTM said:


> so should i dump my copy of vista black?


In my opinion, when Windows 7 comes out; yes.


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## Hansen

Let me also add that I'm impressed with Windows 7 use of system resources. I'm showing roughly 650 mb to 750 mb of memory in use (which is on par with what XP used for me on this system). In fact, Win 7 is using less memory than my MS Home Server running Windows Home Server that uses Windows Server 2003 as it's backbone.


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## Steve

Got it up and running on a Dell dual-core 1.67mhz laptop with 1GB of memory, and it's flying! Unlike Vista, it's got the feel of a "lean and mean" OS, comparable in speed to Win XP SP3. So far, it looks like Microsoft did a great job addressing all the Vista issues.

IMO, the sooner they get this out, the sooner we'll see the end of the Mac vs. PC commercials.

Had I made the h/w and s/w investment in Vista, I would be ticked if asked to pay full freight for "7". Since it's coming out so close on the heels of Vista and addressing many of the Vista "issues", I really think Microsoft should allow Vista owners to upgrade for a much lower price. Just my .02. /steve


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## Tom Robertson

The big problem, Steve, is that windows 7 isn't scheduled for release until "back to school" at the earliest (and that is an aggressive guess by some pundits.)

If you bought your Vista in July...

Happy "National Cut Your Energy Costs Day!"
Tom


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## LarryFlowers

Vista has some things that have been removed as standard equipment from Windows 7;

1. Windows Mail
2. Windows Movie Maker
3. Windows Photo Gallery
4. Windows Contacts
5. Windows Calendar

You can replace these with Windows Live Downloads at http://download.live.com/

1. The Live Mail program is better than Outlook Express ever was, but not as full featured as Outlook. It includes Contacts an Calendar.
2. Movie Maker is still in Beta and not up to the level of the one in Vista, but is still being developed.
3. Photo Gallery

Apologies to Tom in post #24.. I did this post in 2 parts as I had to close it while downloading and checking out the programs.


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## Tom Robertson

Larry,

Aren't those now part of Windows Live and downloadable? I thought I saw that on the Windows 7 splash page.

Peace,
Tom


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## LarryFlowers

Anybody out there tried to load Firefox or Chrome yet? Please post your results.

I am noticing something right off the bat. This version of IE8 must be quite a bit further along than the IE8 Beta I am running on my Vista PC. It is perfroming far better then the beta in Vista.


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## LarryFlowers

Try this:

Open Internet Explorer... grab the title bar with you mouse and drag the top left corner of IE to the top left corner of the screen.

Open a second Internet Explorer window. Drag the title bar of this one so the top right corner of IE is in the top rigt corner of your screen.

Right click on the task bar select "Show Windows Side by Side".

There 3 or 4 less steps to do this than there was in Vista.

Right Click on the taskbar to undo.

This will work with any program, but will be a great way to run multiple chat windows.

Larry


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## Steve

LarryFlowers said:


> Anybody out there tried to load Firefox or Chrome yet? Please post your results.
> 
> I am noticing something right off the bat. This version of IE8 must be quite a bit further along than the IE8 Beta I am running on my Vista PC. It is perfroming far better then the beta in Vista.


Chrome is working just fine.

IE8 Beta 2 must be using resources built into 7, because under XP SP3, using IE8 Beta 2, the nyt.com home page takes up 105 mb of memory. Under 7, it takes up only 51 mb, same as Chrome for the same page.

Interestingly, Chrome takes 81mb of memory for the NYT home page under XP SP3, so it looks like both browsers are availing themselves of some operating system services built-in to 7 that are reducing their respective memory footprints, but IE8 benefits more from 7 than Chrome does. Not surprising since the Microsoft developers know more about the code.

/steve


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## gulfwarvet

Larry,

don't forget about the windows essentials beta that is for windows 7. it replaces windows live with a more of a modern look that matches the look and feel of windows 7. plus it has windows movie (beta) movie maker.

http://download.live.com/


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## dirtyblueshirt

LarryFlowers said:


> Anybody out there tried to load Firefox or Chrome yet? Please post your results.
> 
> I am noticing something right off the bat. This version of IE8 must be quite a bit further along than the IE8 Beta I am running on my Vista PC. It is perfroming far better then the beta in Vista.


No problems with Firefox. all mu plugins work brilliantly, too.


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## gulfwarvet

Oh, i also discovered that Mcafee doesn't like windows 7 yet. however, Norton 2009 internet security will install and work fine.


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## LarryFlowers

See post #23 Thanks for the Norton info



gulfwarvet said:


> Larry,
> 
> don't forget about the windows essentials beta that is for windows 7. it replaces windows live with a more of a modern look that matches the look and feel of windows 7. plus it has windows movie (beta) movie maker.
> 
> http://download.live.com/


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## Tom Robertson

LarryFlowers said:


> See post #23 ...


Oh sure, just edit your post after I've posted the information...


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## Steve

LarryFlowers said:


> Vista has some things that have been removed as standard equipment from Windows 7;
> 
> 1. Windows Mail
> 2. Windows Movie Maker
> 3. Windows Photo Gallery
> 4. Windows Contacts
> 5. Windows Calendar
> 
> You can replace these with Windows Live Downloads at http://download.live.com/


Funny thing is if I select "Movie Maker Beta" for d/l, I get a menu of everything but Movie Maker to d/l! See attached.

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or it's an "issue". /steve


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## dharrismco

gulfwarvet said:


> Oh, i also discovered that Mcafee doesn't like windows 7 yet. however, Norton 2009 internet security will install and work fine.


I do like the feel of Windows 7 so far, the only issue I've had with installs is I had to download the Norton 360 3.0 Beta as Norton 360 2.0 didn't want to install on the 64 bit Window 7 install. (I did have the 64 bit Norton 360 2.0 as I was using it in Vista 64).

Software so far:
ITunes
Windows Home Server Connector 64 bit
Norton 360 3.0 Beta
Firefox


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## gulfwarvet

Avira Premium security suite works with W7


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## VegasDen

I am running x64 Win7 and love it.

Here is a list of Known Issues in this Beta released by Microsoft. Reading it might resolve issues you might encounter.


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## gitarzan

I did an 'upgrade' on one of my Vista HTPC's (AMD 780G chipset) last night. It was mostly smooth. It even recognized my Mitsubish DLP TV correctly but part of the install it only used 1/4 of my TV screen. The Media Center seems a little buggy but I was able to get my HD tuner stick to work. I was especially interested to see the internet TV integrated with the guide now. It seems a little buggy and the Microsoft extender commercials are annoying.


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## Mark Holtz

Interesting....

I have finished performing a upgrade of the system. The upgrade consisted of changing the memory from 2 GB of Ram (1 GBx2) to 4 GB (2 GB x 2) and changing a Maxtor 250GB IDE drive to a Seagate 1 TB SATA drive. As many of you are aware, 32-bit OSes are limited to 2-4 GB of RAM, depending on the motherboard. (Long explanation). My motherboard is a GigaByte 965P-DS3 Rev 3.3 motherboard.

Under XP, the memory detected was 3.5 GB, the hard drive was detected, and a reboot was necessary. 

Under Windows Vista (64-bit), the memory detected was 4 GB, the hard drive was detected, but no reboot. 

Under Windows 7 (32-bit), the memory detected was 4 GB, the hard drive was detected, but no reboot. I will need to perform a performance test again. Screen is different from Vistas.

The thing is that was 32-bit OS, the limit for memory addressing is 4 GB, and for Windows XP, some of that memory is split. (64-bit OSes have a higher memory limit). Funny how, in 2001, the minimum memory requirement was 128MB, and 4 GB was a pipe dream. 2-3 years ago, you were pushing it if you went 2 GB. But now...


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## LarryFlowers

Howl's of protest echoed far and wide over Vista's UAC (User Account Control) a feature that monitored changes in you computer and forced you to authorize them. Your screen dimmed and a UAC box would pop up waiting for your acknowledgement. This was a prime example of Microsoft being damned if they did and damned if they didn't. 

The "howls" were repeated to death on line, half of which were from people who were using it as an excuse not to move up to Vista, which I found fascinating.. how do complain about something you have never used?

Three things about Vista's UAC:
1. You could turn it off
2. If you were a parent with kids using your Vista PC it was a godsend
3. If you left it alone, the warning dropped with use, becoming rare once you had your PC for a while.

Windows 7 attacks the UAC perceived problem by providing 4 levels of protection. 

As illustrated in the first attached picture, the UAC control is easier to find: Start>Getting Started>Change UAC Settings.

Clicking on this brings up the UAC Control Panel with a slider with 4 settings (picture 2). Those settings are from top to bottom:

1. Never Notify.. this turns off UAC

2. Notify me only when programs try to make changes to my computer (do not dim my desktop). Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings.

3. The Default setting: Notify me only when programs try to make changes to my computer (screen dims). Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings.

4. Always notify me: Programs try to install software or make changes to my computer or I make changes to Windows settings.

Hopefully, the ease of access to change UAC's settings and the variety of settings will eliminate or at least lessen the complaints against this much maligned Windows Security Feature.


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## mystic7

Can you install Windows 7 and be done with it, or will it expire eventually? I don't want to go through backing up my files and doing a clean install twice, once for W7, and then to re-install Vista. Does anyone know?

As far as UAC, when I turned it off in Vista Premium 64 bit, it made all of my programs look like I'd just installed them. Even my email client (Eudora) lost all of my old emails, and my other programs went to default preference settings, but when I turned UAC back on, all went back to normal.


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## Steve

VegasDen said:


> I am running x64 Win7 and love it.
> 
> Here is a list of Known Issues in this Beta released by Microsoft. Reading it might resolve issues you might encounter.


Great link. Thanks!

For Zune users who may not have read to the end:

*Zune*

_"After you have upgraded a system to this beta release, the Zune software will not recognize the Zune.

To correct this, start the Zune software with administrative privileges."
_

/steve


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## HDJulie

mystic7 said:


> Can you install Windows 7 and be done with it, or will it expire eventually? I don't want to go through backing up my files and doing a clean install twice, once for W7, and then to re-install Vista. Does anyone know?
> 
> As far as UAC, when I turned it off in Vista Premium 64 bit, it made all of my programs look like I'd just installed them. Even my email client (Eudora) lost all of my old emails, and my other programs went to default preference settings, but when I turned UAC back on, all went back to normal.


I believe the Beta expires on August 1, 2009 if you have a key (30 days without a key). I've read that it is expected there will be a Release Candidate that could extend the expiration date but it will defiitely expire not long after Windows 7 is officially released (as in, for sale to the masses).

I have not had any problems in Vista 32 or 64 bit with turning off UAC but in the Windows 7 Beta, turning off UAC has disabled the gadgets. I can right-click & select gadgets but nothing happens. I've seen a couple of other reports for this in the Windows 7 Beta forums.


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## Tom Robertson

The Beta keys can be extended with a full license key--but you'll most likely want to install the RC when it comes out and/or the final release. And you very well might want to do clean installs at that time... 

So keep them backups handy and updated. 

Peace,
Tom


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## fluffybear

Finally had a moment to install Windows 7 last evening after sending the kids off to bed and while everything appears to be working, I am going to hold off on saying to much right now. I have been beta-testing Microsoft OS for over 20 years (every OS since MS-DOS 2.1) and have been burned a couple of times by being over optimistic.


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## LarryFlowers

A head's up for anyone who has never participated in the Microsoft Beta Process...

1. The Plan for Windows 7 (currently and always subject to change) is to have the current Beta out there being tested for an unspecified length of time ( but with an expiration date of Aug, 2009). When it expires, it will default to a basic mode and is largely non-functional. 

2. The next step in the Windows 7 process once the beta is complete is an "RC" or Release Candidate. This is very close and may in fact be "final code", but it will be made more widely available as Microsoft pursues any final flaws that may exist and only be revealed by expanding the testing base. The period the release candidate remains out there is usually short but very dependent on the feedback they are getting. If they feel it needs more tuning they may release a second RC, but based on current exposure to Windows 7, this seems unlikely.

3. At some point, Microsoft will announce "RTM" or Release to Manufacturing". DVD's will be created and shipped and the PC manufacturer's get their code and licensing. When this happens, their will be a period of time that the RC can continue to be used, usually 90 days at which time it will revert to a basic, and largely unusable state.

None of the license keys for Beta or RC software are permanent. So plan to replace the software with a permanent copy & license or revert to Vista.

I make the same recommendation to everyone who participates in a Beta. Don't "upgrade", do clean installs there is no point in carrying over any problems from one OS to another.

Also... AT THIS TIME no upgrade path is planned for Windows XP, meaning you won't be able to upgrade an XP machine to Windows 7. This may change and is not set in stone.


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## nj1313

Has anyone really had any big compatability issues with any programs they have on their computer? I'm currently running Vista on my computer and wanted to make sure that most programs work in Windows 7 beta.

Thanks,
JD


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## Steve

nj1313 said:


> Has anyone really had any big compatability issues with any programs they have on their computer? I'm currently running Vista on my computer and wanted to make sure that most programs work in Windows 7 beta.


"Most programs" is a pretty broad statement.  I say that because I'm sure it's a safe bet that 95% or more of programs that run under Vista will run under 7.

You should probably list the ones you're really worried about and see if anyone's already tried them. Just my .02. /steve


----------



## nj1313

Steve said:


> "Most programs" is a pretty broad statement.  You should probably list the ones you're worried about and see if anyone's already tried them. Just my .02. /steve


Has anyone had any programs that have had compatability issues with the new Windows 7 Beta?


----------



## Tom Robertson

The only one I've had problems with so far is DIRECTV2PC on Windows 7 64bit. I'm hoping there will be a quick work around; but I didn't find any in my research last night.

Gulfwarvet reported that some anti-viral software bombs, but AVG free works great. (Is an authorized partner at the windows 7 site.)

Peace,
Tom


----------



## gulfwarvet

nj1313 said:


> Has anyone had any programs that have had compatability issues with the new Windows 7 Beta?


if by chance you do have a program that doesn't install correctly the 1st time on windows 7. right click the setup.exe file and set the compatability mode to Vista on such program and run the installion.

i had to do this on my Samsung printer network software in order for it to install and work properly.


----------



## Hansen

Is there some way to report to MS about any issues we see?

I have noticed an issue where I adjust/customize how notifications behave in the Task Bar Tray and then after installing the MP3 update/fix, all the tray notifications were reset to their original/default state. I think but am not sure it did this when installing other programs such as Windows Live Essentials. Any one else see this behavior?

Another thing I noticed that I'm not sure I like is how windows are placed when downloading something or installing from a download. I have noticed if I have IE8 up and download something and then run the install, Win 7 puts the install box behind the active windows and you're left wondering where it went. It does not show up at the bottom in the task bar and you have to minimize the windows that are up to find it. I may be doing something wrong that is causing this but with Vista, when this happens there will be a box labeled with what it is on the task bar flashing to let you know about it.


----------



## gulfwarvet

just a word of caution:

for those of us that uses MajicJack VoIP service. it will NOT work with windows 7.


----------



## gulfwarvet

Hansen said:


> Is there some way to report to MS about any issues we see?
> 
> I have noticed an issue where I adjust/customize how notifications behave in the Task Bar Tray and then after installing the MP3 update/fix, all the tray notifications were reset to their original/default state. I think but am not sure it did this when installed Windows Live Essentials also. Any one else see this behavior?


look for the send feedback links. you should have an Icon on the desktop and links on the windows in the upper right hand corner.


----------



## Mark Holtz

From The Windows Blog:


> Due to an enormous surge in demand, the download experience was not ideal so we listened and took the necessary steps to ensure a good experience. We have clearly heard that many of you want to check out the Windows 7 Beta and, as a result, we have decided remove the initial 2.5 million limit on the public beta for the next two weeks (thru January 24th). During that time you will have access to the beta even if the download number exceeds the 2.5 million unit limit.


FULL POSTING HERE


----------



## dave29

^^ thats a good move ^^


----------



## Mark Holtz

LarryFlowers said:


> I make the same recommendation to everyone who participates in a Beta. Don't "upgrade", do clean installs there is no point in carrying over any problems from one OS to another.


With hard drives so CHEAP, you might as well purchase another hard drive. When I rebuilt my system in 2007, I put a SATA "Mobile Rack" system in, with the intention of running Vista on one drive, XP-Work on another drive, and XP-Leisure on a third drive. (If I had kids, they would have their own drive.) As a result of this beta program, a fourth drive that was planned for Ubuntu ended up being for Windows 7.

The rack system that I selected at the time is the KingWin Mobile Rack, although most are similar.in approach. One model which caught my eye is a trayless design from another manufacturer. While I like the concept, I prefer the protection offered by the trays. While they add $20 to the cost of the drive, it's a nice tradeoff.


----------



## fluffybear

nj1313 said:


> Has anyone really had any big compatability issues with any programs they have on their computer? I'm currently running Vista on my computer and wanted to make sure that most programs work in Windows 7 beta.
> 
> Thanks,
> JD


I have had no issues with the programs that I have loaded so far:

Firefox
Thunderbird
Google Talk
Adobe Acrobat 8
DirecTV2PC
PlayON
ITunes

I did receive a warning with Skype about compatibility issues but even with that I have not found any issues.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Installing right now on my MCE-PC.... Crossing my fingers.


----------



## ccr1958

i clean installed to a new partition yesterday....
after the 2.4GB DL & iso burning the install itself
is very fast...i didn't time it but i would guess 30mins
or so....i like the new UAC function of being able to 
set to be less intrusive & still have it on....as with vista
i hate the built in disk defrag....although it seems to be somewhat
faster....i sent in a request to change it back to the color coded
sector view(sorry..just like to watch all those little boxes jumping 
but so far the beta seems very solid....all i have loaded into it now is
avg 8 free
flash
sun java
cc cleaner
office 2007 basic, 60 day trial


----------



## nj1313

Would I need to re-install all of my programs if I load the Windows 7 Beta?

I was going to "upgrade" to the beta...


----------



## ccr1958

not sure with an upgrade..i would guess no...
but clean install..yes


----------



## LarryFlowers

Not nearly as important a test as others, but valid none the less, I thought I would install a relatively high stress game on the test bed PC to see how it would perform.

Now, under normal circumstances I would not expect this PC to handle this particular game with any real ability, but I wanted to see if it would install, start and at least run.

The game was Half Life 2 Episode One.

Steam installed the game with no difficulty on Windows 7. The game download and installed without any issues. I started the game and though it selected the wrong screen resolution, it came right up and I accessed the control panel and corrected the resolution (2048x1152). This game opens with a graphically rich video and it was jerky, but I expected that, the PC isn't up to this game. Once the game started though, the game play was acceptable but slow.

The upside to this was simply that the Windows 7 OS had no difficulties with the game.

Larry


----------



## JcT21

after an hour to download and about 5 mins to put it on dvd, the install itself took roughly 25 minutes. not bad at all. im using it right now and so far so good. only few minor issues at first. like it failed to notice my 2nd partiton that holds all my "stuff". but thats fixed now. and i couldnt connect to windows update until i had to sync the clock. maybe the clock wasnt a problem but i never had to do that before with xp or vista. but its working now and i got 2 updates, 1 patch and an updated pre-release ati driver.

it seems to be more "snappy" than vista is. i think it boots faster and shuts down faster. file copy is fast and it recognized all my hardware, even my hp printer and new samsung monitor. 


i havent installed any of my regular programs yet, but i did install avg with no problems. going to see if nero 9 works....

i think ill be one of the first to buy the retail version when its released. i like it .....


----------



## JcT21

oh ya... anyone else notice that their "experience score" changed using windows 7? in vista my subscore was 5.3 .. now its 3.0 on w7. my hdd gives it a 3. which my hdd was 5.3 using vista.


----------



## LarryFlowers

Normally, you only see issues with clock sync on Networks, which can bedevil Network admins (ask AirRocker:lol. I would be interested in the details of how you found the problem and what you did to correct it.



JcT21 said:


> after an hour to download and about 5 mins to put it on dvd, the install itself took roughly 25 minutes. not bad at all. im using it right now and so far so good. only few minor issues at first. like it failed to notice my 2nd partiton that holds all my "stuff". but thats fixed now. and i couldnt connect to windows update until i had to sync the clock. maybe the clock wasnt a problem but i never had to do that before with xp or vista. but its working now and i got 2 updates, 1 patch and an updated pre-release ati driver.
> 
> it seems to be more "snappy" than vista is. i think it boots faster and shuts down faster. file copy is fast and it recognized all my hardware, even my hp printer and new samsung monitor.
> 
> i havent installed any of my regular programs yet, but i did install avg with no problems. going to see if nero 9 works....
> 
> i think ill be one of the first to buy the retail version when its released. i like it .....


----------



## deltafowler

Mark Holtz said:


> Here is the Performance score between Windows Vista 64-bit and Windows 7 32-bit. Other than the hard drive, everything is the same between the two setup.


Since everyone here is so keen on keeping illegal activities and the discussions of same from this site, you might want to review the EULA for Windows 7, especially the part wherein you agreed to not publicize benchmark data.

"You may not disclose the results of any benchmark tests of the software to any third party without Microsoft's prior written approval."


----------



## JcT21

LarryFlowers said:


> Normally, you only see issues with clock sync on Networks, which can bedevil Network admins (ask AirRocker:lol. I would be interested in the details of how you found the problem and what you did to correct it.


quick as everything was installed first thing i did was do the windows update. it failed and gave me an error code. i looked it up using the help feature and it gave me the clock sync diagnosis. and to fix it, i had to click on the clock in the corner and sync the time that way. with the internet time settings.

after i did that, everything worked just fine. ...but that was the first time i had ever seen that error before.


----------



## Mark Holtz

deltafowler said:


> Since everyone here is so keen on keeping illegal activities and the discussions of same from this site, you might want to review the EULA for Windows 7, especially the part wherein you agreed to not publicize benchmark data.


Technically speaking, it is not a "benchmark", but more of a "Performance Information", namely the Windows score. To do a proper benchmark, you have to have everything the same, including the benchmarking utility. And, quite frankly, if you are using the Windows score as a benchmark, I would have to question you.

Windows Vista performance scores were capped at 5.9. Yet, my video card scored a 2 point improvement. I think it was revisions to the code in Win7. After all, it is a old 8800GTS 320MB card.


----------



## LarryFlowers

Not one post in this thread is a benchmark test. No comaprisons have been made to other software, except Microsoft's own and then only the impressions that the individual testers. No formal benchmarking wherein, a machine was loaded with Vista and the same machine was loaded with Windows 7 and tests were performed.

This thread is about shared experiences installing a new OS Beta and helping each other. No one cheated and tried to break any licensing code or burn illegal software.

Larry



deltafowler said:


> Since everyone here is so keen on keeping illegal activities and the discussions of same from this site, you might want to review the EULA for Windows 7, especially the part wherein you agreed to not publicize benchmark data.
> 
> "You may not disclose the results of any benchmark tests of the software to any third party without Microsoft's prior written approval."


----------



## Hansen

Do you think that this applies to MS index score from within Win 7 or is it intended for benchmarking from programs like PCMark, etc?



deltafowler said:


> Since everyone here is so keen on keeping illegal activities and the discussions of same from this site, you might want to review the EULA for Windows 7, especially the part wherein you agreed to not publicize benchmark data.
> 
> "You may not disclose the results of any benchmark tests of the software to any third party without Microsoft's prior written approval."


----------



## LarryFlowers

The built in performance test in Windows 7 is part of the OS and involves no benchmark comparisons with anything but itself.



Hansen said:


> Do you think that this applies to MS index score from within Win 7 or is it intended for benchmarking from programs like PCMark, etc?


----------



## Tom Robertson

I'm pretty sure that the Windows Experience Index is not a benchmark as meant by the EULA. Nor is the anecdotal information about our experiences.

But the conversations _are_ very helpful and interesting to our members (at least I think they are.) 

Peace,
Tom


----------



## Jason Nipp

Third time trying to install.... it's crashing out stating its missing files and or is corrupt.

Tried 64 and 32 bit versions.


----------



## LarryFlowers

You are the first to report an installation issue Jason.. can you supply some details?



Jason Nipp said:


> Third time trying to install.... it's crashing out stating its missing files and or is corrupt.
> 
> Tried 64 and 32 bit versions.


----------



## HDJulie

I, too, got a 3 in the hard drive score where it was a 5.6 previously. This is a drive that is about a year old (Seagate 320 meg, 16 mb cache, Sata II). I replaced it with a Western Digital 500 Meg, 32 Meg Cache drive that scores 5.9 in Vista 64. Everything scores 5.9 in Vista 64. In Windows 7 Beta 64, I get 7.1 for the processor, 7.1 for the memory, 7.9 for the Graphics, something less than that for the other graphics, & 3.0 for the hard drive. My system is:

Intel Quad Core Q9550 Processor
8 gig of DDR2 800 RAM
GT8800 DDR3 512 Meg PCI Express 2.0 Video Card
Above-mentioned drives

I'd like to know why the drive scores so low in Windows 7. 

The system runs fine & I've installed Office 2007, Free AVG, iTunes, Windows Live Messenger, Intellitype, Intellipoint, Nero 7.8 (though have not tried it yet). Naturally, I could not install the HP software for my network printer. The install was around 30 minutes & my Dell 24" monitor was recognized automatically. I have an SM Bus device not recognized. What might that be? Anyway, I like most of what I see & I'm tempted to just use it as my normal system (which is what I did with XP) but I think I'll resist & just boot into it to play around. There was never a question that I would buy it when it comes out.


----------



## Jason Nipp

LarryFlowers said:


> You are the first to report an installation issue Jason.. can you supply some details?


 I was looking for you at Smoke's place

I called Tom and he seems to think that the Media Center HP has a Raid controller in it.

I only know I'm crashing out, I have tried four times on clean install, now I am reloading XP from HPs recovery disk and I'll try as an upgrade next.


----------



## LarryFlowers

SMB Bus... system management bus.. if you have an unusual motherboard or possibly your PC is made by someone who supplies specific SMB drivers... you should have a disk.



HDJulie said:


> I, too, got a 3 in the hard drive score where it was a 5.6 previously. This is a drive that is about a year old (Seagate 320 meg, 16 mb cache, Sata II). I replaced it with a Western Digital 500 Meg, 32 Meg Cache drive that scores 5.9 in Vista 64. Everything scores 5.9 in Vista 64. In Windows 7 Beta 64, I get 7.1 for the processor, 7.1 for the memory, 7.9 for the Graphics, something less than that for the other graphics, & 3.0 for the hard drive. My system is:
> 
> Intel Quad Core Q9550 Processor
> 8 gig of DDR2 800 RAM
> GT8800 DDR3 512 Meg PCI Express 2.0 Video Card
> Above-mentioned drives
> 
> I'd like to know why the drive scores so low in Windows 7.
> 
> The system runs fine & I've installed Office 2007, Free AVG, iTunes, Windows Live Messenger, Intellitype, Intellipoint, Nero 7.8 (though have not tried it yet). Naturally, I could not install the HP software for my network printer. The install was around 30 minutes & my Dell 24" monitor was recognized automatically. I have an SM Bus device not recognized. What might that be? Anyway, I like most of what I see & I'm tempted to just use it as my normal system (which is what I did with XP) but I think I'll resist & just boot into it to play around. There was never a question that I would buy it when it comes out.


----------



## HDJulie

LarryFlowers said:


> SMB Bus... system management bus.. if you have an unusual motherboard or possibly your PC is made by someone who supplies specific SMB drivers... you should have a disk.


Gigabyte motherboard. I'll go download the drivers. Thanks.


----------



## Rob77

I have been running various builds of Windows 7 since October and a couple of suggestions.

1. If you do not have a "test computer" at least partition your hard drive so you can do a full install. Really recommend not going the upgrade route.
You also have the advantage with the partition of having your current OS as an ongoing system as these various builds reach expiration dates.

2. Remember that there will be many more builds past the Beta 7000 which was released to the public. While that build is very good, there is still much testing to be done and features to be added before it reaches the RC build....and even that will need to be tweaked before the RTM.

Just my thoughts for what it's worth.


----------



## deltafowler

Hansen said:


> Do you think that this applies to MS index score from within Win 7 or is it intended for benchmarking from programs like PCMark, etc?


That's a question better put to MS than to myself. Their rules, not mine.
Personally, I don't care if you run it head to head with Ubuntu.


----------



## mhayes70

I installed Windows 7 today and it took about 2 1/2 hours to install and it went smoothly. Only problem I have had so far is that DIRECTV2PC does not work.


----------



## dirtyblueshirt

mhayes70 said:


> I installed Windows 7 today and it took about 2 1/2 hours to install and it went smoothly. Only problem I have had so far is that DIRECTV2PC does not work.


I keep getting an error that it won't activate. do you get a similar error?


----------



## naijai

installed yesterday and everything works fine except seems my audio diriver for my speakers wont work with it and also google chrome won't work either i may have installed the 64 bit version but i don't believe that should have an issue 

I have it installed on my 4yr old Hp zv6000, 2.0 Ghz athlon 64 processor, 2gb ram,160gb hard drive, Ati 200M integrated video card 

besides those issue it looks way better than vista even though i have never had an issue with vista and the new features make it mush more user friendly than any of the other windows systems i have used "xp, me, 2000, 98, 95"

I like the "themes" for the desktop background and colour they keep changing everytime hopefully they offer one where the individual can use their own pictures to work with the themes background


Update:
I reinstalled the 32 bit of Windows 7 rather than the 64 bit and seems to work better with everything all issues initally listed are gone and everything installed with ease. overall i'm impressed compared to when i did the longhorn & vista beta tests 7 is shaping up to be if not as good better than vista i still have a few more things to try


----------



## mhayes70

dirtyblueshirt said:


> I keep getting an error that it won't activate. do you get a similar error?


Yes I did. Hopefully Directv or Microsoft will come up with a fix for it soon.


----------



## sideswipe

My 2nd Beta so far so good. install was quick (doing dinner @ the time so 25min or less if was @ the pc) AVG, Adobe, Firefox, & DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online), all working smoothly (well couldn't start my game as administer but no biggie), I skipped Vista (was going to upgrade in a month will probably wait now), Im really impressed @ this point (maybe shouldve tried Vista sooner?) I will say I'm impressed by drivers on this OS, my motherboard is new Oct. 08 Tforce 8200 Biostar all drivers were in the OS.

Computer Perfomance

Processor 5.5 AMD X2 5000+ 2.6ghz
Ram 5.5 2gb Kingston Value
Graphics (desktop) 5.3 
Gaming Graphics 5.0 9500GT 512mb DDR2 (low end version of this card)
Primary Hard Disk 5.9 74gb Raptor 10,000RPM SATA 1.5

I'll be dual-booting, 2 times raptor drives 1 on 7 other on XP Pro.
also will post back after upgrades done to this PC, going up in Graphics & Ram maybe Processor


----------



## Steve

naijai said:


> installed yesterday and everything works fine except seems my audio diriver for my speakers wont work with it and also google chrome won't work either i may have installed the 64 bit version but i don't believe that should have an issue


FWIW, I have no issues with Chrome and the 32 bit version. /steve


----------



## mhayes70

One thing I find funny that is not compatible and does not work yet in Windows 7. Is there own anti virus software One Care Live does NOT work. :lol:


----------



## Mark Holtz

I wanted to run a updated compatibility test with the new memory, but the performance test refused to complete due to "driver issues". Hmmmm.....

A new hard drive and bracket is on order for the 64-bit version of Windows 7. What I'll probably do is migrate the data of one of my XP 320GB Drives (probably leisure) to the 750GB drive, then use that drive for the 64-bit version.


----------



## naijai

Ok i don't know if anyone has this issue, i have my desktop icons are set to auto arrange and then to small icons but whenever i reboot my laptop it goes back to the default settings of medium and scattered


----------



## Jason Nipp

For whatever reason, I could not install it. It just crashes during install.


----------



## houskamp

First impressions...
The good: 
seems much faster and responsive, esp right after start-up..
While it didn't detect a few things it did later find my card reader and had accurate link directly to the install file..
Like the ability to dim display after a few minutes of non use while on battery..

The bad:
Never did like the staged start menu.. I like to see all my programs... and the setting seems to be gone from this version 
No built in email.. funny thing is that the "send to" menu still has "email recipient" on it even though it will com back with "no email installed"..
miss the quick-launch bar..

Other notes:
win live email install tries to install whole package of stuff even when install link is for email only.. (now I see why win live killed a friends PC.. all the crap bundled with the one program she wanted)
Win live email needs a 40" wide screen in default config.. had to find the customize button to stack the last 2 panes (like winmail did).. couldn't read the email in the 2" wide column that was left for it..
can't easily import contacts from vista/win mail..

edit:
Just got a email from my provider.. seems while win live mail can setup a working email (from sbcglobal.net) it doesn't turn on the ssl security properly..


----------



## Steve

houskamp said:


> [...]
> miss the quick-launch bar..
> [...]


Me too, but fortunately the free version of ObjectDock works great with 7. /steve


----------



## ImBack234

Jason Nipp said:


> For whatever reason, I could not install it. It just crashes during install.


Sounds like Micros-hit.:eek2:


----------



## Sirshagg

have not spent a lot of time with it yet but first impression - Vista R2.


----------



## HDJulie

Steve said:


> Me too, but fortunately the free version of ObjectDock works great with 7. /steve


I've heard that the quick launch can be enabled with a registry edit, though I have not yet tried it myself.


----------



## LarryFlowers

Just checking.. A number of people have reported issues with DirecTV2PC and Windows 7... they should be posted in the DIrecTV2PC thread... what I would like here is "has anyone successfully installed and used DirecTV2PC on a clean install of Windows 7".

Thanks

Larry


----------



## deltafowler

HDJulie said:


> I've heard that the quick launch can be enabled with a registry edit, though I have not yet tried it myself.


Try this.
Right click the taskbar
Toolbars
New Toolbar
Search in C:\Users\%username%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\ for the Quick Launch folder.
Unpin from the Superbar


----------



## houskamp

LarryFlowers said:


> Just checking.. A number of people have reported issues with DirecTV2PC and Windows 7... they should be posted in the DIrecTV2PC thread... what I would like here is "has anyone successfully installed and used DirecTV2PC on a clean install of Windows 7".
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Larry


 I've got the last couple versions of D2pc.. I'll try tonight..


----------



## sideswipe

After "playing around" with it more last night & some this morning, the "shake" feature is nice more gimmicky than anything but help when you get over zealous & open 2 many windows & refuse to click "show desktop" in bottom right hand corner. The icon rollover (Vista maybe?) where you can see what windows you have open is nice touch, the transparent toolbar @ the bottom is nice vs. XP. I do like the recommend sites in IE8 works great for my wife (not an avid PC user) who only has a few sites but wouldnt object to few good choices that she does. After 1 session in game (previous post) preformance is on par with XP (maybe a tad slower but DX10 vs. 9 so more detail), did notice little more shut down (game not pc) seemed to take about 30sec vs 10sec. Havent checked defrag or other tools out as of yet will report back as do.


----------



## Jason Nipp

Larry.....

http://social.technet.microsoft.com.../thread/f33e8347-5e27-4db4-8717-4a1b0a6bfd8a/

I am not alone.


----------



## VegasDen

HDJulie said:


> Gigabyte motherboard. I'll go download the drivers. Thanks.


I have a GB board (x58) and the Intel drivers "act" like they install (reboot and all) but, in reality, they didn't. Even when I ran it as an administrator.

What I did was go to Device Manager and saw a good many yellow ! . So I did the following:
1. Opened Device Manager 
2. Inserted MB disk
3. Highlighted a single yellow ! entity in the Device Manager screen.
4. Right clicked
5. Clicked "Update Driver Software"
6. Clicked "Browse My Computer"
7. Pointed it to the drive letter for the MB Disk and checked "include all sub-folders".

Took a few minutes for the initial one...then went down the list of yellow ! one by one and now the device manager is free of problems.


----------



## Art7220

Major Win 7 Error?

So I'm using the Juno Email program. It installed and works well, except when I close it, it says "This program requires triedit.dll, which is no longer included in this version of Windows."

What is triedit.dll? Where do I get it?

BTW, I did install the latest version, which said it supports Vista.


----------



## Steve

HDJulie said:


> I've heard that the quick launch can be enabled with a registry edit, though I have not yet tried it myself.


Thx! Not a biggie, tho.  ObjectDock is a cool free app that looks like it is part of Aero.

I suspect that had it not been so similar to the MacOS program launcher, Microsoft might have added something similar to 7. RocketDock is similar, and also free. /steve


----------



## LarryFlowers

The triedit.dll error is well documented, go to the Juno web site and download the latest Vista version. I googled the dll and many have reported after downloading the latest version the issue went away. these posts were from this past December. You can download it here http://dl.juno.com/pub/juno/vista/bundled/JunoTurboSetup.exe



Art7220 said:


> Major Win 7 Error?
> 
> So I'm using the Juno Email program. It installed and works well, except when I close it, it says "This program requires triedit.dll, which is no longer included in this version of Windows."
> 
> What is triedit.dll? Where do I get it?
> 
> BTW, I did install the latest version, which said it supports Vista.


----------



## Steve

So after using Windows 7 non-stop for almost 3 days, I have to say I love it. Microsoft did a great job keeping 7's h/w and memory requirements at Windows XP levels.

That said, I'm not sure there's much difference performance-wise between 7 and XP SP3, which I'm still running on my other 2 desktops. Windows 7 and XP SP3 appear equally stable, quick and responsive with all the applications I routinely use, and the overall user-experience is comparable.

I give 7 the edge for the general UI, but is that alone worth the cost of the upgrade? I can see how corporate sys admins will love 7, and for them, it makes sense.

On my little self-administered network, though, I have 3 desktops I regularly use. Assuming it's gonna cost me about $150-$200 each for three Windows 7 licenses, will it be worth me spending $450 to $600 for a new UI and some utilities built-in that I had to add manually to XP (like Search 4 and Defender)?

I guess the next few months of testing will tell. The good news is that unlike with Vista, there's really no mandatory h/w upgrade $$$ to factor into the decision to upgrade or not. I suspect most folks running XP will be able to upgrade their existing h/w with no performance issues, other than finding the right drivers in some cases. I'm pretty sure Dell and HP aren't going to be happy when word gets around that 7 runs so well on 3-5 year old systems.

/steve


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> I give 7 the edge for the general UI, but is that alone worth the cost of the upgrade? I can see how corporate sys admins will love 7, and for them, it makes sense.
> 
> On my little self-administered network, though, I have 3 desktops I regularly use. Assuming it's gonna cost me about $150-$200 each for three Windows 7 licenses, will it be worth me spending $450 to $600 for a new UI and some utilities built-in that I had to add manually to XP (like Search 4 and Defender)?


Having seen in at the CES show, and spoken with the lead MS rep there, I can at least assure you there will be an upgrade fee.


----------



## Steve

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Having seen in at the CES show, and spoken with the lead MS rep there, I can at least assure you there will be an upgrade fee.


I'm pretty sure as an XP user I'll have to pay full freight for it. But as I mentioned in another post, I think they should give a break to Vista owners, especially those who had to upgrade their h/w to run Vista! Just my .02. /steve


----------



## deltafowler

Steve said:


> I'm pretty sure as an XP user I'll have to pay full freight for it. But as I mentioned in another post, I think they should give a break to Vista owners, especially those who had to upgrade their h/w to run Vista! Just my .02. /steve


This would be in direct conflict with Microsoft's marketing strategies.
Why would they release Vista and have it create all that demand for something better, and then give away or discount the fix? 
Ask the crack dealer about this week's specials :lol:


----------



## Steve

deltafowler said:


> This would be in direct conflict with Microsoft's marketing strategies.
> Why would they release Vista and have it create all that demand for something better, and then give away or discount the fix?
> Ask the crack dealer about this week's specials :lol:


You're prolly 100% right, but every now and then, you do see a company doing the right thing.  Even greedy Apple gave $$$ back to original iPhone buyers after they lowered the price. There are still millions of folks and lots of Fortune 500 companies who stuck with XP to collect upgrade $$ from.

Don't mean to take this thread off topic, tho. /steve


----------



## Smthkd

So, I know this is a dumb question but is Windows 7 supposed to be the new operating system to replace Vista?????


----------



## LarryFlowers

Yes.

Larry



Smthkd said:


> So, I know this is a dumb question but is Windows 7 supposed to be the new operating system to replace Vista?????


----------



## deltafowler

Smthkd said:


> So, I know this is a dumb question but is Windows 7 supposed to be the new operating system to replace Vista?????


Windows 7 is to Vista as Windows XP is to ME.
It fixes everything that should have been done right the first time, but this way they can charge for it instead of giving it away.


----------



## Smthkd

Nice!!! Thsx guys! I guess Ill go ahead and download the Beta now!!! I gotta try this one out


----------



## LarryFlowers

Would someone post the iTunes Version that you are installing? 

It would also be helpful if you would list version numbers of any software you report.

Thanks 

Larry


----------



## Hansen

Larry

I was able to install iTunes 8 with no issues.



LarryFlowers said:


> Would someone post the iTunes Version that you are installing?
> 
> It would also be helpful if you would list version numbers of any software you report.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Larry


----------



## dave29

Jason Nipp said:


> Third time trying to install.... it's crashing out stating its missing files and or is corrupt.
> 
> Tried 64 and 32 bit versions.


I cannot install 7000 on 4 out of 5 of my computers. same results as you. clean or upgrade......


----------



## fmcomputer

I installed 7 on my notebook (Ugraded Vista Business) took about an hour. Everything is running good except for VNC it will not run. Speed wise so far it is a litter fast than my Vista Business edition. Running Intel Dual Core 1.8GHZ, 2GB Ram, 100GB 7200RPM Hard Drive. Gateway.


----------



## LarryFlowers

Thanks, I posted the version info.

Larry



Hansen said:


> Larry
> 
> I was able to install iTunes 8 with no issues.


----------



## LarryFlowers

Can you give some details.. what brand or type PC's?



dave29 said:


> I cannot install 7000 on 4 out of 5 of my computers. same results as you. clean or upgrade......


----------



## drded

I tried a clean install on an dual-boot Ubuntu 8.10/Windows XP machine. Windows 7 trashed the boot loader. I had to reinstall Ubuntu to repair the boot loaders. Now I can choose Longhorn (that's how it shows up in the boot loader) and from there pick Windows XP or Windows 7. When it choose 7 it tries to boot and has an error that says "Missing Hardware". I tried reinserting the CDROM and doing a repair. Says all is well but Windows 7 still will not boot. XP boots fine.

Dave


----------



## VegasDen

7Forums has some fantastic tutorials on about every aspect of Windows 7.


----------



## houskamp

one other thing I noticed.. the "move to top for fullscreen" is anoying.. every time I try to put a small chat window at the top, POOF fullscreen 
side one is kinda nice tho.. just needs a settings page..


----------



## LarryFlowers

Based on reports, I am adding the DirecTV2PC application to the incompatible list.

If anyone has installed or used this successfully under Windows 7, let me know.

Larry


----------



## Steve

VegasDen said:


> 7Forums has some fantastic tutorials on about every aspect of Windows 7.


Helpful site. Thanks! I finally understand libraries now. Specifically, I was having trouble relocating them to my "data" drive. Not sure if Libraries was a Vista concept, but since I'm jumping from XP, it's new to me.

I normally partition a laptop's drive into a C: (system) drive and a D: (data) drive, so if I have to reinstall the OS, I can just reformat C: and all the user data is still intact on D: after the new OS is installed. In XP, this was a simple matter of changing the _My Documents_ "target folder" location.

Moving data storage locations is a lot more complicated now, and I'm not sure to what advantage. I understand that the idea is to aggregate content from multiple storage locations into one view, but I used to be able to do something similar with folder shortcuts.

Seems like they're trying to make general file storage look similar to the way audio and video is aggregated in WMP or Zune or iTunes, and I'm not sure that's a "one size fits all" solution. Guess I'll have to live with it and see. 

/steve


----------



## tcusta00

Larry: 

Acrobat 5 isn't compatible. I bet newer versions are but this is the version I bought years ago.


----------



## LarryFlowers

I will add it to the list though I suspect the latest version compatible with Vista should run. I think they are up to V9.

Larry



tcusta00 said:


> Larry:
> 
> Acrobat 5 isn't compatible. I bet newer versions are but this is the version I bought years ago.


----------



## tcusta00

LarryFlowers said:


> I will add it to the list though I suspect the latest version compatible with Vista should run. I think they are up to V9.
> 
> Larry


You buyin'?


----------



## Steve

LarryFlowers said:


> I will add it to the list though I suspect the latest version compatible with Vista should run. I think they are up to V9.
> 
> Larry


They're actually delivering a choice of v8 or v9 reader on the Adobe website. V9 comes with the "air" stuff. In my limited document viewing so far, the v8 reader appears to work fine with 7. /steve


----------



## tcusta00

Steve said:


> They're actually delivering a choice of v8 or v9 reader on the Adobe website. V9 comes with the "air" stuff. In my limited document viewing so far, the v8 reader appears to work fine with 7. /steve


This isn't the reader software I'm referring to here - it's the full Acrobat program which is used to _create_ PDFs. The differences are listed here:

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/matrix.html


----------



## LarryFlowers

In knew which one you meant, It can get confusing when versions numbers and product names start to blur together.:lol::lol::lol:



tcusta00 said:


> This isn't the reader software I'm referring to here - it's the full Acrobat program which is used to _create_ PDFs. The differences are listed here:
> 
> http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/matrix.html


----------



## kocuba

Well, Not looking too good for me so far. Wanted to test out our VB6/SQLEXPRESS app in it and it kept locking up at one point in our process. Looks like I've got some trouble shooting to do. <sigh>


----------



## gulfwarvet

for what its worth Yahoo messenger 9.0 works just fine with W7


----------



## Jason Nipp

Ding Ding Ding...... Light bulb pops on thanks to the guys at TechNet.

What type of Disk format did you use on the image that worked for you? -R or +R?

I am told to use +R and try again.


----------



## VegasDen

Here is a bunch of Windows 7 Secrets from an MSDN blog.


----------



## sideswipe

Jason Nipp said:


> Ding Ding Ding...... Light bulb pops on thanks to the guys at TechNet.
> 
> What type of Disk format did you use on the image that worked for you? -R or +R?
> 
> I am told to use +R and try again.


good catch trying 2 figure out also didnt think about media, my installed copy is on +R, hope this works for everyone, btw im not dual-booting windows 7/xp pro, got harddrives mixed up & installed windows 7 as clean install from disk & didnt relized was on my xp harddrive , luckly this was newer install & no files on there had 2 have

also realtek drivers didnt load with windows havent had time to load correct 1's but windoes default drivers giving sound & good qual, will follow up on Biostar's website 2 see if can get working will let you know how goes


----------



## dave29

Jason Nipp said:


> Ding Ding Ding...... Light bulb pops on thanks to the guys at TechNet.
> 
> What type of Disk format did you use on the image that worked for you? -R or +R?
> 
> I am told to use +R and try again.


i bet that is my problem then........ i used -R


----------



## HDJulie

I'm pretty sure I used -R to burn mine & it installed fine.


----------



## LarryFlowers

I always use +R

Let me know if it corrects the problem.

Larry



Jason Nipp said:


> Ding Ding Ding...... Light bulb pops on thanks to the guys at TechNet.
> 
> What type of Disk format did you use on the image that worked for you? -R or +R?
> 
> I am told to use +R and try again.


----------



## Seamsealer

I used a -R and there was no problem. I don't think it makes a difference.


----------



## houskamp

DVD-R here too.. Don't even have any others anymore.. too many incompatibilities with DVD players..


----------



## naijai

Used a +R and it worked fine


----------



## Mark Holtz

Interesting. I had burned my 32-bit copy to DVD-R and my 64-bit copy to DVD+R. Both installed fine. 

Since I have a Ghost Image of my Leisure drive, I used that drive to install the Windows 7 64-bit system after wiping the drive. Install is strightforward. It would be interesting to run the numbers again. Just one question.... where the *BLEEP* do I enter in my product key? I know it wasn't entered in when I installed the 64-bit version. 

Am I the only person who is testing both a 32-bit install and a 64-bit install of Windows 7?


----------



## LarryFlowers

Mark Holtz said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Am I the only person who is testing both a 32-bit install and a 64-bit install of Windows 7?


Nope... 3 test machines

Laptop with clean install Windows 7 32bit

PC with clean install Windows 7 32bit

PC with Vista 64bit running Virtual PC 2007 with Windows 7 64 bit.


----------



## ccr1958

anyone else having probs with IE8 not saving
manually typed urls in the dropdown.....
all IE settings are default...
i sent feedback


----------



## VARTV

Not trying to hijack this thread... yikes... I'm debating Vista Ultimate 32-bit vs 64-bit. Can someone point me to a Thread or "very" quickly tell me what the advantages of 64-bit is over 32-bit. I heard all drivers need to be digtially signed or you're out of luck...

I'm a home using, no gaming but wanting to be able to watch HD video while multitasking (running Office 2007 Profressional, email, etc) and will be editing HD home video clips...


----------



## gulfwarvet

Mark Holtz said:


> Interesting. I had burned my 32-bit copy to DVD-R and my 64-bit copy to DVD+R. Both installed fine.
> 
> Since I have a Ghost Image of my Leisure drive, I used that drive to install the Windows 7 64-bit system after wiping the drive. Install is strightforward. It would be interesting to run the numbers again. Just one question.... where the *BLEEP* do I enter in my product key? I know it wasn't entered in when I installed the 64-bit version.
> 
> Am I the only person who is testing both a 32-bit install and a 64-bit install of Windows 7?


nope

64 on laptop for now
32 on desktop for now

then after awhile i'll switch versions to see if i notice anything...


----------



## sideswipe

was playing with the Themes this morning, used the link inside to go online to change, everytime chose a new Theme online (microsoft's not 3rd party) it would open new Personalization window, submitted feedback already, any 1 else saw this?


----------



## LarryFlowers

32 bit Windows PC's are limited to roughly 3GB of memory.

64 bit Windows PC's recognize 4GB and higher up to the limit of your motherboard.



VARTV said:


> Not trying to hijack this thread... yikes... I'm debating Vista Ultimate 32-bit vs 64-bit. Can someone point me to a Thread or "very" quickly tell me what the advantages of 64-bit is over 32-bit. I heard all drivers need to be digtially signed or you're out of luck...
> 
> I'm a home using, no gaming but wanting to be able to watch HD video while multitasking (running Office 2007 Profressional, email, etc) and will be editing HD home video clips...


----------



## Steve

Still finding it frustrating and unintuitive to move user data file storage (libraries) to my D: drive. All I had to do with XP is change the "My Documents" target.

Does anyone else like to keep system and programs on C: and all data on D:? Or is it just me? I do this so that if I have to reinstall the system in the future, I can wipe C: and do a clean install without worrying about my data.

/steve


----------



## VARTV

LarryFlowers said:


> 32 bit Windows PC's are limited to roughly 3GB of memory.
> 
> 64 bit Windows PC's recognize 4GB and higher up to the limit of your motherboard.


Is digitally signed drivers with Vista 64-bit a big issue??


----------



## Tom Robertson

Steve said:


> Still finding it frustrating and unintuitive to move user data file storage (libraries) to my D: drive. All I had to do with XP is change the "My Documents" target.
> 
> Does anyone else like to keep system and programs on C: and all data on D:? Or is it just me? I do this so that if I have to reinstall the system in the future, I can wipe C: and do a clean install without worrying about my data.
> 
> /steve


Yes, I've been known to layout my systems in that way. Thought I confess I haven't lately since I don't rebuilt often and leave the system as it comes.

Happy Ratification Day!*
Tom

*Commemorates the ratification of the Treaty of Paris by the Continental Congress in 1784, thereby ending the Revolutionary War and establishing the United States as a self-governing nation.


----------



## houskamp

Steve said:


> Still finding it frustrating and unintuitive to move user data file storage (libraries) to my D: drive. All I had to do with XP is change the "My Documents" target.
> 
> Does anyone else like to keep system and programs on C: and all data on D:? Or is it just me? I do this so that if I have to reinstall the system in the future, I can wipe C: and do a clean install without worrying about my data.
> 
> /steve


 Has the same (kinda PIA) setup as Vista..
here's what to do:
create a folder on your data drive for EACH one you want to move..
open documents..
rightclick folder>properties>location>move..
change location to folder you created..

yes you have to do each separately...


----------



## ccr1958

Steve said:


> Still finding it frustrating and unintuitive to move user data file storage (libraries) to my D: drive. All I had to do with XP is change the "My Documents" target.
> 
> Does anyone else like to keep system and programs on C: and all data on D:? Or is it just me? I do this so that if I have to reinstall the system in the future, I can wipe C: and do a clean install without worrying about my data.
> 
> /steve


no... i have several drives setup.....i use cut/copy & paste


----------



## ccr1958

ccr1958 said:


> anyone else having probs with IE8 not saving
> manually typed urls in the dropdown.....
> all IE settings are default...
> i sent feedback


i found that in internet options/content/auto complete/settings/use autocomplete for..
address bar must be checked...
i don't recall messing with that setting but maybe i did....


----------



## LarryFlowers

Normally that setting pops up the first time you manually enter an address in the address bar, you respond to it once OR tell it not to bother you again.. you might have just accidentally check the wrong box.



ccr1958 said:


> i found that in internet options/content/auto complete/settings/use autocomplete for..
> address bar must be checked...
> i don't recall messing with that setting but maybe i did....


----------



## LarryFlowers

Steve, Iconfigure all my computers in this manner, as well as all client PC's that are NOT connected to a server.

Having to do a format C is not such a problem. I also re-route all files like the outlook.pst file to the D drive so they aren't of concern either.

Larry



Steve said:


> Still finding it frustrating and unintuitive to move user data file storage (libraries) to my D: drive. All I had to do with XP is change the "My Documents" target.
> 
> Does anyone else like to keep system and programs on C: and all data on D:? Or is it just me? I do this so that if I have to reinstall the system in the future, I can wipe C: and do a clean install without worrying about my data.
> 
> /steve


----------



## Steve

LarryFlowers said:


> I also re-route all files like the outlook.pst file to the D drive so they aren't of concern either.


Exactly. I do the same with my PST's, as well as every other bit of user data I can think of, including browser favorites, which I automatically back up to D:. I also keep all my program installers on D: as well. Then as you know, it's a simple matter to reformat C: and reinstall Windows and programs when the need arises. Except for relocating the PST's, this was a simple change under XP. I'm going to try *houskamp's *method when I get a chance.

I'm going to have to reinstall 7 when my new 2.5" hard drive comes at the end of the week. 7 won't let me reformat the D: partition on my existing laptop hard drive! It's tells me it's due to fail soon, or something to that effect. :bang

/steve


----------



## houskamp

Steve said:


> Exactly. I do the same with my PST's, as well as every other bit of user data I can think of, including browser favorites, which I automatically back up to D:. I also keep all my program installers on D: as well. Then as you know, it's a simple matter to reformat C: and reinstall Windows and programs when the need arises. Except for relocating the PST's, this was a simple change under XP. I'm going to try *houskamp's *method when I get a chance.
> 
> I'm going to have to reinstall 7 when my new 2.5" hard drive comes at the end of the week. 7 won't let me reformat the D: partition on my existing laptop hard drive! It's tells me it's due to fail soon, or something to that effect. :bang
> 
> /steve


 When an OS won't let me format a drive, I just go into computer management>drivemanager and delete the partition and recreate it..
Haven't had it refuse me that way


----------



## Steve

houskamp said:


> When an OS won't let me format a drive, I just go into computer management>drivemanager and delete the partition and recreate it..
> Haven't had it refuse me that way


I did that! I had an 80gb originally partitioned 20/60 for XP that I re-partitioned as 30/50 for 7. The 7 installer objected when I tried to format the C: drive, but let me do it anyway. Windows 7 won't let me do it for D:, tho. /steve

PS: Silver lining is I picked up a WD "Scorpio" 250 GB 2.5" sata for $50! /steve


----------



## Jason Nipp

LarryFlowers said:


> 32 bit Windows PC's are limited to roughly 3GB of memory.
> 
> 64 bit Windows PC's recognize 4GB and higher up to the limit of your motherboard.


 I think he should be cautious though as I originally tried to install the 64 bit version on my P4-HT 3.4GHz and it told me my processor was not 64 bit mode capable.


----------



## LarryFlowers

That's true, I should have thought of that... not all processors are 64 bit capable.

Larry



Jason Nipp said:


> I think he should be cautious though as I originally tried to install the 64 bit version on my P4-HT 3.4GHz and it told me my processor was not 64 bit mode capable.


----------



## houskamp

I also succeeded in moving both the Vista and Win7 files to the same folders on my second drive... no double copies


----------



## BCoop8184

Help! So I installed Win 7 on my old POS Dell Inspiron 600m. The install went swiftly and had zero problems except it won't recognize my wireless or network card at all. I have tried finding an appropriate driver to install but have had no luck. It has a 570x broadcom network card. Any suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## MIAMI1683

BCoop8184 said:


> Help! So I installed Win 7 on my old POS Dell Inspiron 600m. The install went swiftly and had zero problems except it won't recognize my wireless or network card at all. I have tried finding an appropriate driver to install but have had no luck. It has a 570x broadcom network card. Any suggestions? Thanks!


 Go to dell's website (wired of course) and download the viosta driver. It should be the same


----------



## LarryFlowers

Repeating here...

One of the most frequently occuring issues is the wireless card in a laptop. Virtually all of these problems have been resolved by going to the laptop manufacturers web site and download the latest Vista 32 or 64 bit driver and installing it manually.

Larry



MIAMI1683 said:


> Go to dell's website (wired of course) and download the viosta driver. It should be the same


----------



## houskamp

Any reports of battery problems?
Mine says my battery is bad (and shuts down in 15 minutes) in win7 but it works fine in vista (over an hour runtime)


----------



## BCoop8184

my laptop won't even recognize a wired connection, its very weird. maybe I am just absolutely clueless at this point. any other suggestions?


----------



## Steve

houskamp said:


> Any reports of battery problems?
> Mine says my battery is bad (and shuts down in 15 minutes) in win7 but it works fine in vista (over an hour runtime)


Sounds like my hard drive issue. 7 is apparently very fussy about h/w. Makes me wonder, since old PC's work so well with 7, if Microsoft isn't trying to drum up peripheral business for the h/w guys... in place of new computer sales? /steve


----------



## Steve

BCoop8184 said:


> my laptop won't even recognize a wired connection, its very weird. maybe I am just absolutely clueless at this point. any other suggestions?


7 installed the Intel Pro wireless driver for my Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop automatically.

No such luck with my HP PSC2510, however. Not part of the stock printer driver offerings.

/steve


----------



## BCoop8184

So am I SOL?


----------



## Hansen

I have the same laptop and had the same issue. The fix was easy. Go to Intel's website and search for the Intel Proset 2200 ABG wireless driver. Download it to your desktop. Go into Device Manager and find the wireless adapter. It may not be obvious but look for a device with a yellow exclamation mark next to it. Right click and choose install driver and point to the driver on the desktop.

As a side note, I think you'll be surprised at how well this old laptop performs with Win 7.



BCoop8184 said:


> Help! So I installed Win 7 on my old POS Dell Inspiron 600m. The install went swiftly and had zero problems except it won't recognize my wireless or network card at all. I have tried finding an appropriate driver to install but have had no luck. It has a 570x broadcom network card. Any suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## BCoop8184

Thanks for the help Hanson, just tried it and can't get it to work. My wireless card isn't showing up in the device manager at all. All I have is an "ethernet controller" and a "network controller," both with yellow !'s next to them. I have tried several different drivers from broadcom and can't get any of them to work. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Steve

BCoop8184 said:


> Thanks for the help Hanson, just tried it and can't get it to work. My wireless card isn't showing up in the device manager at all. All I have is an "ethernet controller" and a "network controller," both with yellow !'s next to them. I have tried several different drivers from broadcom and can't get any of them to work. Any other suggestions?


Not sure if this will work, but try this link for the Vista driver for that controller: http://www.yournewdriver.com/Broadcom_570x_Gigabit_Integrated_Controller_1255.htm

Not a site I've been to before, so you may want to scan the file for viruses before you unrar it. /steve


----------



## BCoop8184

Oh well, maybe this old Dell will work well as a frisbee.


----------



## Hansen

BCoop8184 said:


> Thanks for the help Hanson, just tried it and can't get it to work. My wireless card isn't showing up in the device manager at all. All I have is an "ethernet controller" and a "network controller," both with yellow !'s next to them. I have tried several different drivers from broadcom and can't get any of them to work. Any other suggestions?


I can't remembe what I did or looked or first. I think downloaded Intel's wireless manager for the Proset and then installed the driver. But, try this:

Do you have any other devices by any name with a yellow ! next to it? Look for something located in PCI Bus 3, Device 2. That's where mine is showing. If so, load the driver onto that device.

If that doesn't work, go to Intel's website and load the entire Intel Proset Wireless Manager. Here's a link. http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Det...7&DwnldID=17233&strOSs=156&OSFullName=Windows Vista* Ultimate, 32-bit version&lang=eng Then after that is loaded and started, you may need to load the driver onto the manager.

EDIT: Here is another link http://www.intel.com/index.htm?iid=hdr+logo


----------



## LarryFlowers

Hansen.. I looked at the "as supplied" list for his laptop. Dell uses both Broadcom and Intel wireless/ethernet network connections. In your case it was an Intel set. In his case it is a Broadcom chipset. In theory the Vista Broadcom drivers for the 440X& 570X should work, but they don't. It may be because the laptop dates to 2003, Dell shows no upgrade path to Vista for that laptop. If I had the laptop I could probably find a driver that would work but it would be a weekend project.

Larry



Hansen said:


> I can't remembe what I did or looked or first. I think downloaded Intel's wireless manager for the Proset and then installed the driver. But, try this:
> 
> Do you have any other devices by any name with a yellow ! next to it? Look for something located in PCI Bus 3, Device 2. That's where mine is showing. If so, load the driver onto that device.
> 
> If that doesn't work, go to Intel's website and load the entire Intel Proset Wireless Manager. Here's a link. http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Det...7&DwnldID=17233&strOSs=156&OSFullName=Windows Vista* Ultimate, 32-bit version&lang=eng Then after that is loaded and started, you may need to load the driver onto the manager.
> 
> EDIT: Here is another link http://www.intel.com/index.htm?iid=hdr+logo


----------



## Hansen

LarryFlowers said:


> Hansen.. I looked at the "as supplied" list for his laptop. Dell uses both Broadcom and Intel wireless/ethernet network connections. In your case it was an Intel set. In his case it is a Broadcom chipset. In theory the Vista Broadcom drivers for the 440X& 570X should work, but they don't. It may be because the laptop dates to 2003, Dell shows no upgrade path to Vista for that laptop. If I had the laptop I could probably find a driver that would work but it would be a weekend project.
> 
> Larry


That could explain it. I have both Broadcom and Intel in mine. Broadcom for the ethernet network connection and Intel for the wireless network connection. Mine is June 2004 manufacturing. Sounds like he might have Broadcom for both ethernet and wireless. If so, then that's a bit of unfortunate luck and shame that Dell does not provide what's needed. Would Broadcom have some generic Vista drivers available? If not, then a solution might be a USB wireless card or PCI card...?

Edit: I took a look at Dell's network drivers for the Inspiron 600m laptops and it does appear from the potential drivers listed, there are several wireless cards used by Dell on that notebook over the years. I think the Broadcom is the ethernet one and did not see something that looked like a wireless driver related to Broadcom but there are several Intel cards listed and Dell also used it's own wireless cards in the 600m. Makes it a bit more difficult. The OP needs to determine which wireless card is present in the laptop. He might use the Dell support website to look up his service tag and see if Dell lists the type of wireless controller card present in the laptop. That might help to locate the appropriate Vista driver needed. Alternatively and a major PITA, roll back to XP and look up what type of wireless card it's using, then re-install Win 7. Getting the Broadcom ethernet going may be a different issue.


----------



## naijai

I dont know if it's just me seeing things but does firefox look different & cleaner in Windows 7 than in Vista ? Can someone confirm.


Edit: Firefox does actually look better in Windows 7 than in Vista and i actually like the look


----------



## jayc4242

Sorry to jump in late, but I just found this thread. For those that have been having some problems at installation, make sure when you burn the ISO that you burn it at the lowest possible speed. I had similar installation trouble when I used the Vista Beta. Burning at a lower speed fixed all of my problems. Hope this helps


----------



## Mark Holtz

I don't know about you guys, but my backup solution is Ghost 2003. Yes it's old, but I think it is also the best version of Ghost ever made. (Unless someone else came up with a good program that has a boot CD and can backup to images as well as DVDs)

As a test, I backed up my Win7 32-bit version to my backup drive. Then, with my new hard drive, I restored the image. Not unexpectedly, Win7 had issues, and you had to reinsert the install CD to repoint the partition. But, after two more reboots, my Win7 install is working back. 

Next stop... my 64-bit install.


----------



## Mark Holtz

Same thing with Win7 64-bit install. After you restore the image, the drive had to be repaired with the "original CD", then it rebooted fine.

It should be noted that my copy of Vista 64-bit does this as well. So, something changed with the boot between XP and Vista.


----------



## tcusta00

VegasDen said:


> Here is a bunch of Windows 7 Secrets from an MSDN blog.


Good stuff in there, thank you.


----------



## tcusta00

Play On Beta doesn't appear to want to install. http://www.themediamall.com/playonbeta2008


----------



## LarryFlowers

Probably not a good idea to mix beta with beta anyway... kind of an invitation to a crash..



tcusta00 said:


> Play On Beta doesn't appear to want to install. http://www.themediamall.com/playonbeta2008


----------



## BubblePuppy

Am I correct in understanding that the Windodws7 beta will expire in June/July?


----------



## Steve

LarryFlowers said:


> Probably not a good idea to mix beta with beta anyway... kind of an invitation to a crash..


I'm having problems running the Speakeasy or Speednet speed tests using Flash 7 and IE 8. I get delayed response and then a "burst" of download speed that's 2x to 3x higher than it should be. Anyone else seeing this? TIA. /steve

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/

http://speedtest.net/


----------



## Steveknj

Drinking the Kool-Aid I see!! I've never met a MAC person who has EVER admitted anything is better in Windows, even when it is!! Ten years ago, I'd agree that MACs were easier to use, but since XP, I don't believe that is the case. Anyway, I'm I don't want to turn this into MAC/Windows bashing thead. Glad to see that people here are testing Win 7 and I'm going to do that sometime this week.



itguy05 said:


> Most definitely. Been a Mac user since 2002. Had Linux been there I'd be on that.
> 
> I get paid to fix the inadequacies in Windows by day. I don't want any of that BS when I get home - I want a machine that works, a laptop that reliably sleeps and wakes. I want a machine that wakes when I open the lid, sleeps when I close it and works 100% all the time.
> 
> In all seriousness it wasn't until I started with Linux and later OS X that I realized how bad Windows really was.
> 
> Imagine no registry, just editable, readable XML files for configuration...
> 
> Imagine programs that are self contained and can be installed/deinstalled by dragging and dropping.
> 
> Imagine multiple desktops (I love spaces on OS X) seamlessly integrated in the OS.
> 
> Imagine full time backup that works and works unobtrusively. It has saved my butt many times.
> 
> Imagine being able to upgrade without reinstalling your OS. I've gone from 10.1 -> 10.4 on the same machine with solid stability.
> 
> Like I tell people, there's no 1 killer feature that makes OS X better, it's all the little things that come together to make it a much better OS.
> 
> Like the iPhone - all it does has been done before but the usability is what gets people.
> 
> OS X is not perfection - it's just the best option we've got at this time.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steveknj said:


> Drinking the Kool-Aid I see!! I've never met a MAC person who has EVER admitted anything is better in Windows, even when it is!!


Ain't it the truth! 

As for testing....I'm a bit surprised that Microsoft didn't hand out Beta disks at the CES this year....you'd think that they'd want all the testers they could get in the field....


BubblePuppy said:


> Am I correct in understanding that the Windodws7 beta will expire in June/July?


I believe the date is August 1st.


----------



## dirtyblueshirt

BubblePuppy said:


> Am I correct in understanding that the Windodws7 beta will expire in June/July?


Nope, it's due to expire in August, but expect Microsoft to come out with a 'release candidate' that will go beyond that.


----------



## tcusta00

Steve said:


> I'm having problems running the Speakeasy or Speednet speed tests using Flash 7 and IE 8. I get delayed response and then a "burst" of download speed that's 2x to 3x higher than it should be. Anyone else seeing this? TIA. /steve
> 
> http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/
> 
> http://speedtest.net/


Both look normal to me, Steve:



Speakeasy: Last Result:
Download Speed: 16891 kbps (2111.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1790 kbps (223.8 KB/sec transfer rate)


----------



## Steve

Steveknj said:


> Drinking the Kool-Aid I see!! I've never met a MAC person who has EVER admitted anything is better in Windows, even when it is!! Ten years ago, I'd agree that MACs were easier to use, but since XP, I don't believe that is the case. Anyway, I'm I don't want to turn this into MAC/Windows bashing thead. Glad to see that people here are testing Win 7 and I'm going to do that sometime this week.


I have to agree with him on one point. The Registry is right up there as one of the worst ideas in the history of ideas, IMHO.

I haven't used Macs since OS X, so not sure if this is still the case, but in the OS 9 and before days, everything you needed to configure or know about a program was stored in that programs "prefs" file, in the same folder as the app. If you had problems with the program, simply deleting it's pref's file allows you to start over from scratch and reconfigure it cleanly. And if you wanted to uninstall a program, simply dragging the program's folder to the trash removed all traces of it from your OS.

No add/remove programs nonsense or registry cleaning required to remove all the bird droppings that Windows programs often leave behind. It never ceases to amaze me that I can run three or four different registry cleaners in a row, and each one will find obsolete entries the others didn't. /steve


----------



## Steve

tcusta00 said:


> Both look normal to me, Steve:
> 
> 
> 
> Speakeasy: Last Result:
> Download Speed: 16891 kbps (2111.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
> Upload Speed: 1790 kbps (223.8 KB/sec transfer rate)


Hmmm. Thanks for checking. Maybe it's how & is utilizing my CPU? This is 2-3 y.o. Dell laptop running a T2300 Core 2 Duo at 1.67 ghz. Used to run those tests fine with XP SP3. I've got 10/2 service, and as you can see my upload speed is about right, but not download:









*
EDIT:* Windows 7 also recently forced me to install a new hard drive. Perhaps it has something to do with the way it's caching? It's a Western Digital Scorpio, 250 GB ATA. Specs here. TIA for anyone with thoughts on what might be happening.


----------



## LarryFlowers

Steve, I am getting fairly normal results for a Saturday off Comcast:










This is Windows 7 and IE8, the download speed is off by about 25-30% compared to weekdays, not sure why, but it always is. Upload speed is normal.

Larry



Steve said:


> Hmmm. Thanks for checking. Maybe it's how & is utilizing my CPU? This is 2-3 y.o. Dell laptop running a T2300 Core 2 Duo at 1.67 ghz. Used to run those tests fine with XP SP3. I've got 10/2 service, and as you can see my upload speed is about right, but not download:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *EDIT:* Windows 7 also recently forced me to install a new hard drive. Perhaps it has something to do with the way it's caching? It's a Western Digital Scorpio, 250 GB ATA. Specs here. TIA for anyone with thoughts on what might be happening.


----------



## Hansen

Noticed something I do not like with Win 7 (it's also true I think of Vista) and wireless connection information. In XP, I could hover the cursor over the wireless "meter" in the system tray and a balloon would come up telling me the connection strength (i.e. excellent, very good, good, low, etc) and connection rate (i.e. 54mbps, 108 mbps, 135 mbps, etc.). Unfortunately, in Win 7, when you hover over the little bars showing the wireless connection, the only information provided is the network you're connected to and if you're on local and internet...you have to drill down a bit with various clicks to find out the detailed rate and other info. I recongize the number of bars tells some info by virtue of the number of bars lit up but that lacks detail it was nice to see in XP.

Is there a setting I'm overlooking that would provide this info when hovering over the bars?


----------



## Steve

LarryFlowers said:


> Steve, I am getting fairly normal results for a Saturday off Comcast:


Thanks. Guess we'll have to chalk this up to something unique with my Dell configuration. Just double-checked with my Lenovo T60 running XP SP3 to the same wireless router and got normal results. About 8000 down and 1800 up. Weird. /steve


----------



## Steve

Hansen said:


> Is there a setting I'm overlooking that would provide this info when hovering over the bars?


Big +1! Coming from XP SP3, I'm having the same issue. The unclicked tray icon doesn't even show I'm connected. It's always grey, as opposed to showing the signal strength. /steve


----------



## LarryFlowers

One of those Beta Things... new animations for tray icons not complete yet.



Steve said:


> Big +1! Coming from XP SP3, I'm having the same issue. The unclicked tray icon doesn't even show I'm connected. It's always grey, as opposed to showing the signal strength. /steve


----------



## Brandon428

I hate to be so negative but I have had nothing but problems ever since installation. I know its Beta but it looks to me like its just another crappy version of windows. I had high hopes for 7 and perhaps in time it meet my expectations but I have to be honest and I'm not some mindless Apple fanboy (that may be debatable...lol) but OSX is still to me light years ahead of windows in ease of use,reliability,speed,and productivity. To me its easier and more efficient to get work done on my mac. Also security,my $1200 Macbook runs as fast as the day I bought it while my $2000 PC runs like a tractor. It seems the only time it runs at a good speed is when I wipe the hard drive and put a fresh version of windows and it only runs fast for a couple of weeks and slows down again. My Mac has only froze on me in total 3-4 times and never required a restart. Microsoft needs to do what they do best (stealing other peoples ideas..lol) and just copy OSX and slap a windows logo on it. I highly suggest anyone frustrated like me to give OSX a shot and try Windows 7 again when its an official release. Please understand also I don't want to come off insulting to windows fans. All that I said is just my humble opinion.


----------



## naijai

[URL=http://www.speedtest.net]


----------



## LarryFlowers

What problems?



Brandon428 said:


> I hate to be so negative but I have had nothing but problems ever since installation. I know its Beta but it looks to me like its just another crappy version of windows. I had high hopes for 7 and perhaps in time it meet my expectations but I have to be honest and I'm not some mindless Apple fanboy (that may be debatable...lol) but OSX is still to me light years ahead of windows in ease of use,reliability,speed,and productivity. To me its easier and more efficient to get work done on my mac. Also security,my $1200 Macbook runs as fast as the day I bought it while my $2000 PC runs like a tractor. It seems the only time it runs at a good speed is when I wipe the hard drive and put a fresh version of windows and it only runs fast for a couple of weeks and slows down again. My Mac has only froze on me in total 3-4 times and never required a restart. Microsoft needs to do what they do best (stealing other peoples ideas..lol) and just copy OSX and slap a windows logo on it. I highly suggest anyone frustrated like me to give OSX a shot and try Windows 7 again when its an official release. Please understand also I don't want to come off insulting to windows fans. All that I said is just my humble opinion.


----------



## Brandon428

LarryFlowers said:


> What problems?


The drivers for almost all my stuff won't work. Nothing wants to install and I can't even get my network adapter to work so I can get online to try to fix it.


----------



## Hansen

Brandon428 said:


> The drivers for almost all my stuff won't work. Nothing wants to install and I can't even get my network adapter to work so I can get online to try to fix it.


 Can you give some details on the system specs and which drivers are not loading?


----------



## LarryFlowers

Details please and we can try to help you. Most have had at most one or two drivers that gave them problems and so far most of those have been cured by downloading an appropriate vista driver. Start with you PC, what kind is it, how old is it, what is the network card?



Brandon428 said:


> The drivers for almost all my stuff won't work. Nothing wants to install and I can't even get my network adapter to work so I can get online to try to fix it.


----------



## Brandon428

Its an HP Media Center Desktop model number PCM7330n. Its about 3 years old and I'm using a Belkin N USB adapter. The PC sees the hardware but doesn't completely install because the driver isn't signed.


----------



## houskamp

Have you tried the builtin net card? even a temp cable to get it to connect long enough to get the drivers you need..


----------



## Brandon428

I went to belkin.com on my mac and they don't have any drivers for that model. I could just use the ethernet cable but I would have to disconnect everything HR-20,HDDVD,360,PS3,etc. so I don't want to do that.


----------



## Steve

Brandon428 said:


> [...]Its about 3 years old and I'm using a Belkin N USB adapter[...]


Is this what you have? If one of these, try ignoring the "unsigned driver" message. I.e., tell 7 to install anyway.

You have nothing to lose. /steve


----------



## Mark Holtz

Here is something interesting.... I have the LiteOn 20A1L DVD/CD Burner (SATA) in my computer. The firmware has been upgraded to BL06 Firmware. Now, the drives are showing as incorrect in the device manager screen shots, and the MSINFO32 shows a Error 39 on both Win7 32-bit and 64-bit. Vista 64-bit appears to be OK.

Also, after installing the drivers on my Epson V100 scanner, they are showing up as not installed on my Win7 64-bit version eith a Error 28.

I have attached a screen shot and MSINFO32 from Windows 32-bit and 64-bit. Unfortunately, registry is a bit too large.


----------



## houskamp

HP6380c printer driver won't install due to "admin permission"..
Seems it expands the files and then tries to run install..so it fails running the install after.. 
Installed ok (had to set a port in windows firewall) on same machine in vista 64..
Installed perfect on wifes laptop in vista32..

Still trying.. already tried turning off user permissions but still no go..


----------



## Brandon428

Steve said:


> Is this what you have? If one of these, try ignoring the "unsigned driver" message. I.e., tell 7 to install anyway.
> 
> You have nothing to lose. /steve


I tried that but it still won't recognize it as a network adapter. It just sees it as a useless piece of hardware.


----------



## houskamp

Brandon428 said:


> I tried that but it still won't recognize it as a network adapter. It just sees it as a useless piece of hardware.


 what version of win7? x32 or x64?


----------



## Brandon428

x64


----------



## houskamp

Brandon428 said:


> x64


 That's what I thought.. Vista x64 is a touchy beast too.. dirvers are hard to come by..
From what I see it only has 32 bit drivers http://www.belkin.com/support/article/?lid=en&pid=F5D8053&aid=8343&scid=942

either download and install win7x32 or get a newer adapter that has vistx64 drivers availible..


----------



## Pinion413

I won't go into a big grand description of everything new (since I'm sure it's been covered here and elsewhere), but overall I am very pleased with this beta after using it for a solid week.

I installed this as an upgrade from Vista Ultimate x64. So far, all of my hardware has been recognized and is working. Pretty much every program I had installed in Vista is working (OpenOffice, Chrome, Firefox, avast!, Nero, Steam, Zune, Pidgin, Winamp, TVersity, [email protected] GPU, etc.). The only thing I can't get working for the time being is DirecTV2PC. 

A few graphical glitches here and there aside (and the whole UAC disabled breaking Gadgets thing), I'm super happy with how this is working out. In my humble opinion, it's quite a bit better, more reliable, and just plain more responsive than Vista's x64 beta was (and in some cases, even SP1). For the time being on this rig, it will be my primary OS so that I can thoroughly test the heck out of it. :grin:

I can't wait to see how this forms over the next betas/RC's up to release.

I must have this day-one. 

(PC's specs are in "My Setup" in my signature)


----------



## sideswipe

ok 2 things:

1. Issue with printing, i just bought new basic printer: HP deskjet 1520, prints fine from paint, haven't checked websites or most others, the HP software wouldnt install however windows 7 detected right away, issue with adobe, printed out a form & only printed blank, will test more & give feedback but any suggestions would be recommended (printed fine from XP Pro)

2. so windows 7 is on 1 Raptor drive, XP Pro is on another, but when boot no option to select which OS i want to use, I have to manually unhook the windows 7 sata cable to use XP any why around this? (usually get option which wanted to use in past as I said in earlier post didnt touch Vista at all but did beta test XP & was using either 98 or ME when was doing it & there was no issues)


----------



## VegasDen

sideswipe said:


> ok 2 things:
> 2. so windows 7 is on 1 Raptor drive, XP Pro is on another, but when boot no option to select which OS i want to use, I have to manually unhook the windows 7 sata cable to use XP any why around this? (usually get option which wanted to use in past as I said in earlier post didnt touch Vista at all but did beta test XP & was using either 98 or ME when was doing it & there was no issues)


You might look at this...many use it with success.


----------



## Steve

FWIW, David Pogue gave Windows 7 a pretty glowing review in today's New York Times. He sums it up this way:


> Now, plenty of people online are reacting to Windows 7 by muttering: "Oh, great. So I'm supposed to pay another $150 to get a version of Windows that actually works? How about you pay me for spending three years as your Vista beta-tester?"
> 
> That's fine, but being bitter won't get you a better PC. Windows 7, on the other hand, probably will.
> 
> For decades, Microsoft's primary strategy has been to put out something mediocre, and then refine, refine, refine, no matter how long and no matter what it costs, until it succeeds. That's what's exciting about the prospect of Windows 7. It's Windows Vista - with a whole heck of a lot of refinement.


/steve


----------



## Hansen

As noted earlier in this thread, I'm running an older laptop (circa June 2004) that uses a Celeron M 1.5ghz processor with limited graphics. So far, things remain pretty quick with a few exceptions. The one thing that does not work or run is Windows Media Center. This old laptop just does not have the graphics horsepower that WMC wants/needs. That's understandable. It won't even load it up. Stalls and stutters like a old car running out of gas.


----------



## Steve

InfoWorld did some benchmarking here. Bottom line, up to quad-core, XP still rules the roost from a CPU utilization/performance standpoint. When we get to 8+ cores in the next year or two, that's when Windows 7 is expected to shine.

Surprising to me, because unlike with Vista, my perception of 7 is that it seems every bit as "snappy" as XP SP3 on the same hardware. Just a subjective impression, tho. I did no benchmarking. /steve


----------



## LarryFlowers

Randall C. Kennedy has one of the worst reputations in reviewers circles. He was caught trying to sneak in to the Microsoft Professional Developer's Conference. He claims he was personally responsible for delaying Microsoft's release of Windows 7.. It wasn't delayed it was realeased on the exact schedule announced at the PDC. His favorite sport is trashing Microsoft. Anything he writes is immediately suspect. He definitely has an agenda and a horrible reputation.

Larry



Steve said:


> InfoWorld did some benchmarking here. Bottom line, up to quad-core, XP still rules the roost from a CPU utilization/performance standpoint. When we get to 8+ cores in the next year or two, that's when Windows 7 is expected to shine.
> 
> Surprising to me, because unlike with Vista, my perception of 7 is that it seems every bit as "snappy" as XP SP3 on the same hardware. Just a subjective impression, tho. I did no benchmarking. /steve


----------



## Mark Holtz

I don't know about you guys, but I prefer to partition my drives by setting aside 10-20 GB for temp files and the temporary internet files folder. So, I went ahead, reformatted the drives, and reinstalled both the 32-bit and 64-bit Windows 7. When I did the manual partitions, it automatically set aside 200MB at the beginning of the drive. I wish the partitioning was a bit more dynamic. I wanted to set aside 20GB at the end, and then leave all the rest for Windows 7. Oh well, I guess that is the job for Ultimate Boot CD.

The 32-bit drive install went smoothly, although SuperAntiSpyware caused a BOD. 64-bit Windows, however, had a few hiccups again, as it didn't initally recognize the Epson scanners, and the LiteOn Drives went to Error 39... again. However, a fix from KB314060 restored the drives to full functionality, and a quick reinstall of the Epson scanner brought it online.

Here is the Performance data from my machines. Again, the slow part is the hard drives.


----------



## Steve

Mark Holtz said:


> [...]The 32-bit drive install went smoothly, although SuperAntiSpyware caused a BOD [...]


FWIW, Windows Defender (formerly Giant Antispyware) gets installed as part of 7 and can't be uninstalled, AFAIK, unless you disable the service. I personally don't like to run more than one each antispyware program and antivirus program.

That said, aside from the fact it uses 35 megs of memory, I find Defender is a pretty good product. /steve


----------



## Steve

They never learn, do they?

Gizmodo is reporting that there may be as many as 5 different retail versions of Windows 7.

/steve


----------



## Jason Nipp

Oh boy.


----------



## Hansen

Steve said:


> They never learn, do they?
> 
> Gizmodo is reporting that there may be as many as 5 different retail versions of Windows 7.
> 
> /steve


I think that's one more than Vista. Sadly, they are putting out an Ultimate version, which did not go over well with Vista. In fact, this beta test is the Ultimate version and I really don't see where it differentiates itself as Ultimate. Seems like there should be a basic version, premium version and business version...at the most.


----------



## Steve

Hansen said:


> I think that's one more than Vista. Sadly, they are putting out an Ultimate version, which did not go over well with Vista. In fact, this beta test is the Ultimate version and I really don't see where it differentiates itself as Ultimate. Seems like there should be a basic version, premium version and business version...at the most.


Or they should take a tip from Apple and just offer one version... period. If folks who might not otherwise want to pay for Windows Media Center, e.g., get a chance to play with it because it's there, it might lead to some X-Box sales (as media extenders), or some hardware upgrades, making their PC and peripheral suppliers happy.

But then what do I know?  /steve


----------



## sideswipe

windows 7 is running as secondary OS again, had issues w/DDO unsure if was 7 or DDO's DX 10 drivers (still beta also) will test more on this to see if works w/DX 9 any better

also wanted to to let you guys know new parts in route will see how it goes, not much just video performance upgrades but will see how windows takes it

evga 9500gt upg to sapphire 4830

hp 17" lcd (6yrs old) to acer 22" (widescreen finally!)

btw also going w/new case, 500w pc power & cooling power supply, heatsink, & artic 5, so can test the overclocking Biostar built into motherboard


----------



## Mark Holtz

I'm in the process of installing all my Steam-powered games on my Windows 7-32 bit drive. It's taking a while.  However, I tested one game, Commander Keen, which uses DOS emulation. It turns Steam into a state of "not responding".


----------



## djlong

How is the Media Center application in this release? Is it too much to hope for Blu-Ray playing and MKV file support?


----------



## naijai

Ok some quick help from other minds

I have Windows 7 installed on my Laptop with no issues now while trying to install it on my desktop it won't show me the dual boot option to pick vista which is on my primary hard drive and windows 7 on my secondary hard drive unless i changing the secondary hard drive to primary and vice versa in the bios settings. The startup & recovery sttings only show the system i am working on. I'm sure i can figure this out but any additional help will be helpful

Hard drive 1 WD 250GB
Hard drive 2 Seagate 320GB
Asus MB M2N-SLI deluke
Windows Vista Ultimate 
3GB Memory
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000 3.0GHz


----------



## LarryFlowers

MKV will be supported natively in Windows 7 as well as Blu Ray files ripped to the hard drive for playback... wether you will be able to play Blu Ray discs straight from the drive remains to be seen as their are Sony licensing issues.



djlong said:


> How is the Media Center application in this release? Is it too much to hope for Blu-Ray playing and MKV file support?


----------



## houskamp

naijai said:


> Ok some quick help from other minds
> 
> I have Windows 7 installed on my Laptop with no issues now while trying to install it on my desktop it won't show me the dual boot option to pick vista which is on my primary hard drive and windows 7 on my secondary hard drive unless i changing the secondary hard drive to primary and vice versa in the bios settings. The startup & recovery sttings only show the system i am working on. I'm sure i can figure this out but any additional help will be helpful
> 
> Hard drive 1 WD 250GB
> Hard drive 2 Seagate 320GB
> Asus MB M2N-SLI deluke
> Windows Vista Ultimate
> 3GB Memory
> AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000 3.0GHz


 did you install win7 from vista?


----------



## naijai

houskamp said:


> did you install win7 from vista?


Nope i did a fresh install to the hard drive directly

also before i did it as i described previously, i did try it on a partition on the primary hard drive with the similar results,i had to boot off the dvd in order to load windows 7 from the partition


----------



## houskamp

naijai said:


> Nope i did a fresh install to the hard drive directly
> 
> also before i did it as i described previously, i did try it on a partition on the primary hard drive with the similar results,i had to boot off the dvd in order to load windows 7 from the partition


 thats why there's no boot option.. you need to start vista, run win7 install (tell it to install to second drive) thn you will get the dual boot options..


----------



## BattleZone

Steve said:


> They never learn, do they?
> 
> Gizmodo is reporting that there may be as many as 5 different retail versions of Windows 7.
> 
> /steve


No different from Vista. The "starter" version is for developing countries to use on old, low-power hardware and for the most part will never be seen in the US, just as Vista Starter isn't now.

The other 4 versions are the same as Vistas.


----------



## Steve

IIP said:


> The other 4 versions are the same as Vistas.


Well, four wrongs don't make a right! :lol: /steve


----------



## naijai

houskamp said:


> thats why there's no boot option.. you need to start vista, run win7 install (tell it to install to second drive) thn you will get the dual boot options..


Ok then i guess i know what i'll be doing after the super bowl party 

Thanks alot


----------



## naijai

Well that worked thanks alot kinda weird i had to do it that way since i have Vista & Xp on another pc and i did a fresh install on vista directly to the hard drive and it worked fine that way giving me the dual boot option. Learning everyday


----------



## HDJulie

I have Vista installed on Drive 1. I booted from the Windows 7 Beta DVD & did a clean install to Drive 2 thinking that I would just switch the hard drive order in the Bios whenever I wanted to boot from one to the other but found that there was a boot option made automatically. I didn't have to install from Vista.


----------



## Mark Holtz

I was hoping to have a set of Performance information from 8 GB of RAM across Vista 64 and Win7-64. Instead, I have a case of infant mortality.... one of the two new RAM chips had a malfunction.  Hello RMA.

HOWEVER, I also discovered that Windows 7 also includes a memory tester both on the install CD and on the computer. The RAM test runs outside of the Windows environment during bootup. Sure enough, right at the top of bank 8, we have a malfunction. This is confirmed by Memtest 86+. Back to 4 GB I go.


----------



## dave29

LarryFlowers said:


> MKV will be supported natively in Windows 7 as well as Blu Ray files ripped to the hard drive for playback... wether you will be able to play Blu Ray discs straight from the drive remains to be seen as their are Sony licensing issues.


i havent been able to try i yet because i have windows 7 on a test machine(i have not yet migrated it to my HTPC), but will windows 7 playback a blu ray that has been ripped to an ISO thru media center(with or without any plugins) i have all of my rips saved as ISO's


----------



## LarryFlowers

Don't know the answer, I will attempt to find out for you. I believe they have to be stored in a media format but I will check.



dave29 said:


> i havent been able to try i yet because i have windows 7 on a test machine(i have not yet migrated it to my HTPC), but will windows 7 playback a blu ray that has been ripped to an ISO thru media center(with or without any plugins) i have all of my rips saved as ISO's


----------



## dave29

LarryFlowers said:


> Don't know the answer, I will attempt to find out for you. I believe they have to be stored in a media format but I will check.


thanks, i appreciate it. i have looked around, but have not found a definate answer. i am a little hesitant to install windows 7 on my htpc until i know for sure. i have the BD iso's working great right now using VMC and a couple plugins. they will launch right out of media center.


----------



## turey22

I agree with you Itguy05...I have windows right now because of school. They have designed the website to only support IE 7 and lower and also that active x. I am going to school for web design and i think everyone should know that Macs graphics are amazing. but i agree with you all the way...OS X is good.



itguy05 said:


> Most definitely. Been a Mac user since 2002. Had Linux been there I'd be on that.
> 
> I get paid to fix the inadequacies in Windows by day. I don't want any of that BS when I get home - I want a machine that works, a laptop that reliably sleeps and wakes. I want a machine that wakes when I open the lid, sleeps when I close it and works 100% all the time.
> 
> In all seriousness it wasn't until I started with Linux and later OS X that I realized how bad Windows really was.
> 
> Imagine no registry, just editable, readable XML files for configuration...
> 
> Imagine programs that are self contained and can be installed/deinstalled by dragging and dropping.
> 
> Imagine multiple desktops (I love spaces on OS X) seamlessly integrated in the OS.
> 
> Imagine full time backup that works and works unobtrusively. It has saved my butt many times.
> 
> Imagine being able to upgrade without reinstalling your OS. I've gone from 10.1 -> 10.4 on the same machine with solid stability.
> 
> Like I tell people, there's no 1 killer feature that makes OS X better, it's all the little things that come together to make it a much better OS.
> 
> Like the iPhone - all it does has been done before but the usability is what gets people.
> 
> OS X is not perfection - it's just the best option we've got at this time.


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## Mark Holtz

OK, all those who worked and maintained Windows 3.0, please raise your hand. 

Thought so....

When Windows 3.0 were used, all of the settings were in the .INI files. However, some programmers hid the .INI files in strange places, or put their program entries in either USER.INI or SYSTEM.INI files. This made uninstalling quite... challanging. The Windows Registry was designed to make things a bit easier, and in one aspect, it has. In other aspects, it hasn't.


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## turey22

Man, that was along time ago...for me...i dont even think i knew how to use a computer back then all i know is that it was released on my birthday which is may 22 1990...if i am not wrong.



Mark Holtz said:


> OK, all those who worked and maintained Windows 3.0, please raise your hand.
> 
> Thought so....
> 
> When Windows 3.0 were used, all of the settings were in the .INI files. However, some programmers hid the .INI files in strange places, or put their program entries in either USER.INI or SYSTEM.INI files. This made uninstalling quite... challanging. The Windows Registry was designed to make things a bit easier, and in one aspect, it has. In other aspects, it hasn't.


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## kfcrosby

Mark Holtz said:


> OK, all those who worked and maintained Windows 3.0, please raise your hand.


My first was Windows 2.0 on an AT&T machine....

Sheeezzz, now I feel old


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## Cmnore

IIP said:


> No different from Vista. The "starter" version is for developing countries to use on old, low-power hardware and for the most part will never be seen in the US, just as Vista Starter isn't now.
> 
> The other 4 versions are the same as Vistas.


Interesting. I recently read that ALL versions of '7' will be Ultimate. Particular 'variations' of the OS will be determined by your particular activation code. Upgrades will 'unlock' blocked features.


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## hdtvfan0001

Let me get to the point....I hate the new UI - hate it.

I spent about a day and a half with a PC with WIN7 beta loaded.

It is not intuitive, buries the most common of tasks in a myriad of graphical gobilty-****, and is mostly changed to support graphical, video, and music support.

Add in that it will cost more, require a hard disk reformat, take longer to learn, and will not have SP2 out for perhaps 1 year or more to correct all the bug fixes.

Talk to me again about WIN7 in 2011 or 2012...until then - no thanks.

Did I mention I hate it. :lol:


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## Shades228

I really like Win 7 so far but I feel some things are going to get screwed up like in Vista. Honestly I wish they would go back to the NT model for a business OS and leave the home version alone. There is so much crap in there that will never be used by 99% of home users that could be flushed but they have to put it in because they want this all in one OS where the registry key is the only difference.

Win 7 though has been as stable as Vista SP1 so I think it shows they're doing what they did with ME. Vista is garbage and they found out what people hated and what didn't work correctly. Win 7 should be the next XP.


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## djlong

I'm guessing there'll be a market for a program that displays, in a friendly, clear manner, a lot of the 'buried gobbledygook'.


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## turey22

Yeah, they want to steal a lot of things from the OS X. Also there are always a lot of bugs when microsoft puts something out...they can never wait to at least release something when its stable enough to be released.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Let me get to the point....I hate the new UI - hate it.
> 
> I spent about a day and a half with a PC with WIN7 beta loaded.
> 
> It is not intuitive, buries the most common of tasks in a myriad of graphical gobilty-****, and is mostly changed to support graphical, video, and music support.
> 
> Add in that it will cost more, require a hard disk reformat, take longer to learn, and will not have SP2 out for perhaps 1 year or more to correct all the bug fixes.
> 
> Talk to me again about WIN7 in 2011 or 2012...until then - no thanks.
> 
> Did I mention I hate it. :lol:


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## hdtvfan0001

djlong said:


> I'm guessing there'll be a market for a program that displays, in a friendly, clear manner, a lot of the 'buried gobbledygook'.


Maybe the vegetable department in the superMARKET but that's about it... :lol:

The UI is not designed for typical consumers to use...its designed for graphic artists and videophiles....in short....why not just get a Mac if they want to join that crowd.


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## Phil T

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ....why not just get a Mac if they want to join that crowd.


Bought a new 20" I-Mac on Friday. I am done with Windows for home use.


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## Steve

FWIW, Gizmodo published a Windows 7 Guide here today. /steve


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## Mark Holtz

This has been an interesting beta test experience. I have been upgrading my system during this beta, so I am seeing how Win7 adapts to the changed hardware. So far, I've updated my memory, and now it's the monitor.

As noted in another thread, my CRT went blurry, so I got a new monitor. Of course, the native resolution is much higher. On my XP and Vista drives, the monitor and camera were detected automatically, but the resolution had to be manually adjusted. On my Win 7 drive, the optimal resolution was detected and the settings automatically changed.

However, one favorite trick in testing the camera is to go into Windows Explorer and selected the camera. This appears to be a XP-only trick, since I can't do that in Vista or WIn 7.

Also, I had to run the camera software as Administrator on Vista, and used the Troubleshooting mode on both versions of WIndows 7. But, the software works.


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## Steve

From today's Gizmodo: _The first post-beta version of Windows 7 is up on bit torrent sites everywhere, and actually includes a few benefits over Build 7000, the previous, beta version.

The most obvious new feature is the inclusion of Internet Explorer 8 Release Candidate, a step up from the previous build's beta edition. But it also includes a bunch of new icons and animations, and apparently the start menu's search option is faster than before. Despite a few flaws, we're pretty much in love with Windows 7 over here and it's good to know that it'll get even better before the final release._


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## sideswipe

ok figured time 2 revise since we've all had a few months:

ok so im still using build 7000 (no torrent downloaded windows here), all updates, all drivers, x2 5000+ OC to 3.0ghz, 2gb ddr2 800, raptor 74gb hd, sapphire 4830 video card

I've really been enjoying windows 7 lately (has became my main OS since hard drive with XP went down) only issues I've currently had is while gaming my memory usage is up about 600mhz now I'm maxing out my 2gb, now this is only issue when loading up add'l info (ie stages, zones, etc...) when game locks up windows immediatly goes into feedback mode, will freeze pc for up to 3 - 5min & either just game will shutdown & windows reporting is showing or system will reboot, ordering ram from newegg today, once installed & running will follow up.

as a side note i've been having occasional issues w/ati catalyist (nothing new exspected this from previous ati's) anyone else running catalyist had any issues (windows letting you know driver recovered from blah blah blah or just reboot?)


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## kfcrosby

Hey sideswipe, are you running the 32bit or 64bit flavor? Not doing any gaming here but I opted for the 64bit on my main machine and haven't had anything but the standard 64 bit driver problems that plague both XP & Vista 64bit versions. I'm running comfortably in 4GB ram!


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## sideswipe

32-bit since was only running 2gb of ram didn't wanna chance 64-bit, reviews always read recommended if under 4gb dont touch 64-bit due to preformance issues, but now will be up to 4gb next week


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