# SDV (Switched Digital Video) Found Anti-Competitive By FCC



## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

This really doesn't directly impact DBS (or specifically, DirecTV), and is listed here simply for folks to read up and it away for future reference:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...r-anticompetitive-switched-digital-video.html

Certainly, this thread may be locked as, as pointed out, it really isn't directly DBS oriented. But it does show that the flurry of SDV pronouncements by the cablecos months ago when DirecTV (and DISH, for that matter) began to rapidly ramp up HD offerings, has serious shortcomings (primarily, now, the FCC problems).

The article contains various links to the FCC notice(s) and other commentary.

SDV: Dead On Arrival?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

I guess they really don't have more HD then. :lol:


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## Malibu13 (Sep 12, 2004)

I have moved this one over to Tech Talk. Enjoy the discussion.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I dont know what the answer should be. Cable companies shouldn't have to have smaller bandwidth limits and lack of technological progression from third parties, BUT third parties should not necessarily be knocked out of the arena either.

No real easy answer, and fines definitely are not the answer IMO as all the cable company is trying to do is implement technology to have larger bandwidth for more channels.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Interesting. Being a Time Warner subscriber in the Monroe, NC market, I received a letter from them a few months ago announcing that they would be implementing SDV. In the letter, they indicated the channels that would be affected soonest - some foreign language channels and a few sports channels. They also stated that they would be rolling out SDV adapters for those customers like myself who used cablecards. They also stated that they anticipated there would be no increase in monthly fees. 
For cable companies to increase the number of HD channels they offer, SDV appears to be essential.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Cholly said:


> For cable companies to increase the number of HD channels they offer, SDV appears to be essential.


Or use additional coax feeds.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

Somebody at the FCC really has it 'in for' the cable companies. If they cannot do things like switched video, they cannot compete in the channel count wars. Is the FCC trying to drive them out of business?

--- CHAS


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

HIPAR said:


> Somebody at the FCC really has it 'in for' the cable companies. If they cannot do things like switched video, they cannot compete in the channel count wars. Is the FCC trying to drive them out of business?
> 
> --- CHAS


Haven't you learned yet? The FCC is everyone's enemy :lol:


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## 1948GG (Aug 4, 2007)

HIPAR said:


> Somebody at the FCC really has it 'in for' the cable companies. If they cannot do things like switched video, they cannot compete in the channel count wars. Is the FCC trying to drive them out of business?
> 
> --- CHAS


No, they're simply trying to protect the consumer who's bought into the cablecard system, which was proposed and hyped by their (cablecos) own trade organization.

Sure they can move forward with SDV, IF they simply did two things first (if you read the FCC documents...?):

1. Come out with an SDV version of the cablecards first (put the horse in front of the cart first... maybe?)

2. Offer existing users a cheap or no-cost upgrade to their systems cards BEFORE rolling out their SDV systems.

Neither of these were implemented by the cablecos in question. In fact, CableLabs has literally just announced test SDV cards for use by manufacturers so they can test out the system with their products, something that should have been done over a year ago BEFORE they started making existing consumer equipment obsolete.

Luckily, the number of systems that have gone to SDV is small; If one read much of the hype on it, one would have thought most systems had already implemented SDV.

Obviously, the entire thing simply wasn't thought through; and this is something 'new'?


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Leave it to the FCC to put their nose in where it doesn't belong. I don't see how the movement to SDV in the cable world is any different than the move to MPEG 4 in the DBS world. In both cases existing hardware becomes obsolete. but the with DBS, MPEG 4 impacts more subscribers and more drastically then SDV will ever in the cable world. I didn't have to do or upgrade anything when SDV went live. I'd really love to know how many people out of the ~60 million cable TV subscribers really use Cable Cards. Relatively, not many. It's called progress people. Cable Card was a stupid idea to begin with and should just die.



> Luckily, the number of systems that have gone to SDV is small; If one read much of the hype on it, one would have thought most systems had already implemented SDV.


Time Warner is the nation's second largest cable company and has been the most proactive when it comes to SDV. Although they provide service in 33 states, they pretty much own NY, California, Ohio, Texas, North Caronia and South Carolina and that's where the bulk of their subscribers are. With Buffalo coming online last month all 6 franchises that cover NY State have gone SDV, most of Texas is SDV, the Carolinas are getting ready for it, some Ohio system are upgraded and California is supposed to be upgraded (maybe some parts are, not sure), but there's still a lot of problems integrating legacy TW systems with former Comcast and former Adelphia systems in SoCal.

Anyway you slice it, SDV is a godsend, since January we went from 17 HD channels to now 53. The FCC can F off, leave my HD channels alone! And the entire analog line up is simulcast in digital, also using SDV. Here in the Rochester franchise, we were one of the first, if not the first to do SDV testing and it has been nothing short of a blessing.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

How many of the latest digital TV's have a cable card receptacle?

--- CHAS


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

HIPAR said:


> How many of the latest digital TV's have a cable card receptacle?


As a brand, Samsung TVs do NOT support CableCard. I don't think Mitsubishi does either. The larger high end models of most other brands do.

It is pretty apparent that CableCard support is thinning outside of the obvious requirement for CATV STBs. At one time, the CableCard and flat screens seemed like a match made in heaven for those who wanted nothing showing. The bitter fight that the CATV companies put up wasn't lost on the consumer.


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## Grentz (Jan 10, 2007)

I must say the idea behind the cablecards was awesome. It really puts a lot more power in the hands of the consumer to use a box/receiver they want. Lots of reasons why it can be a negative as well though.

In any event it is still cable, I would much rather have Directv (or even dish for that matter over the cable services I have used)


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## EXTACAMO (Apr 7, 2007)

For whom the bell tolls, it's for cable.


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

HIPAR said:


> How many of the latest digital TV's have a cable card receptacle?
> 
> --- CHAS


Not very many. Samsung and Toshiba are the only popular manufacturers I've found that still have models with CableCard slots. My 55 inch Sony RP LCD TV has one, but Sony no longer manufactures rear projection TV's. I haven't found any receivers by Pioneer, Philips or Vizio that have the slots.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

EXTACAMO said:


> For whom the bell tolls, it's for cable.


It's the free market, not the government that should be tolling the bells. Oh wait, that's an old fashioned idea .. a relic of that evil capitalistic bygone era.

--- CHAS


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## CoriBright (May 30, 2002)

HIPAR said:


> How many of the latest digital TV's have a cable card receptacle?
> 
> --- CHAS


Samsung Series 6 (Touch of Color) models do not, nor do Toshiba Regza 2007 or 2008 models.

In our latest visit to RC Willey (two weeks ago) I don't recall seeing any HDTVs with them at all.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

> must say the idea behind the cablecards was awesome. It really puts a lot more power in the hands of the consumer to use a box/receiver they want.


Other then the Series 3 TiVo what other set top boxes out there have cable card slots? The consumer has no power to use the receiver they want, it's either rent a box from the cable company, or shell out cash for an HD TiVo and pay the $15 fee to TiVo on top of your cable bill. If cable companies are going to get blamed for the cable card fiasco, you could just as easily blame the CE manufactures for lack of support. LG, Sony, Mits, et al could have built set top terminals with cable card slots but they didn't, not every TV the pumped out hard cable card slots either. The manufactures didn't do their part, I fail to see how the cable companies are to blame. And that more than likely equates to consumer demand. If consumers didn't demand it, then CE manufactures and cable companies brushed it aside and rightfully so. For two years in a row now when Time Warner in my area sent out the price increase notices, Cable Card rentals decreased in price. Last year they went down 50 cents, this past year it was a dime, I think they are only $2.30/month now. Obviously that goes to show the popularity of them cards in my area and I can't imagine it's much different nationwide.

Switched Digital Video is a very good solution to a big problem, and the FCC needs to butt out and let the cable companies run their businsiness as they please and make the technological advancements they need in order to compete with satellite and telco providers.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Cholly said:


> Samsung and Toshiba are the only popular manufacturers I've found that still have models with CableCard slots.


Samsung claims that they haven't delivered a CableCard TV in model years 2007 or 2008. Panasonic and Toshiba offer a few and Sony offers a few on their XBR and Bravia models. It would appear that Sharp and LG have forsaken CableCard as well.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> Other then the Series 3 TiVo what other set top boxes out there have cable card slots?


All new CATV STBs?


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

I meant boxes you could go to Best Buy and Circuit City to buy, not Sci Atl or Moto boxes with intergrated cable cards that you pick up from the office and rent like the Explorer 8300HDC.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Steve Mehs said:


> I meant boxes you could go to Best Buy and Circuit City to buy, not Sci Atl or Moto boxes with intergrated cable cards that you pick up from the office and rent like the Explorer 8300HDC.


CC an BB don't offer cable boxes (outside of the TiVos). Those who want to exercise their FCC given right to own a cable box typically have to buy online.

It is dangerous enough as it is to sell CableCard TiVo units that may not be supported by the local CATV company.


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## Steve Mehs (Mar 21, 2002)

Who manufactures these boxes? For digital set top terminals, Moto and Sci Atl are the two main manufactures, Samsung has a box I believe, other than that I haven't seen or heard of any other boxes. And the FCC shouldn't give anyone rights. They are an anticompetitive, anticorporate, anti free speech organization that loves to take rights away, they are an extremely dangerous organization that should be disbanded.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

And all of this nonsense because the FCC suddenly decided to enforce a law that dates back to 1996 before any of these affected technologies even existed.

--- CHAS


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

harsh said:


> Samsung claims that they haven't delivered a CableCard TV in model years 2007 or 2008. Panasonic and Toshiba offer a few and Sony offers a few on their XBR and Bravia models. It would appear that Sharp and LG have forsaken CableCard as well.


My mention of Samsung and Toshiba in my previous post was based on visits to their web sites, where I found models from each that specifically mentioned CC slots. 
As to SDV adapters, both Motorola and Cisco have models that have been certified, and are supposedly to be available by the end of the year.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Conceptually, cable card is an excellent idea... especially if taken to the next level to include not just cable companies but satellite companies as well.

However, implementation has been poor... and I would blame cable companies and TV manufacturers almost equally.

My father bought a Toshiba that had a cable card slot, and tried it out. Time Warner would not send the card for self-install as they said it required a trained professional. However, they sent out a first-time installer who admitted he had never seen one before. It didn't work. Second time they sent another first-timer guy. This time it worked, but only for a few days.

Toshiba pointed the finger at Time Warner for all problems... Time Warner pointed the finger at Toshiba for all problems... so he went back to using a set-top box.


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## HIPAR (May 15, 2005)

If the FCC was so 'hot to trot' to promote these cable card security things, they should have mandated cable card receptacles for all digital TV's and monitors. As we have learned that feature has been bred out of modern TV's; 'natural selection' ?.

--- CHAS


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## Cholly (Mar 22, 2004)

Toshiba was probably right in pointing the accusing finger at Time Warner. 
Time Warner uses Scientific Atlanta CableCards which are known to have problems. Additionaly, relatively few of their subscribers have TV's that are CableCard ready. As a result, most of their installers aren't familiar with the installation process. Further, they fail to send out cards with current firmware, and as a result, they don't work properly, if at all.
I have two HD TiVo receivers with CableCards, and I had all sorts of trouble with inexperienced techs not knowing how to install them. It took repeated visits to get them up and running. Once installed, they've been fine with minor exceptions. I've had a few instances where somehow the cards have had to be reauthorized, requiring a call to TW tech support. Why that was necessary is beyond me, but if they show up in TW's database as not being authorized, they are blocked.


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## bicker1 (Oct 21, 2007)

> The Federal Communications Commission on Friday reversed orders by the agency's Enforcement Bureau that fined Time Warner Cable and Cox Communications for deploying switched digital video.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


http://www.multichannel.com/article/306974-FCC_Vacates_SDV_Rulings_Against_Time_Warner_Cable_Cox.php


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