# DTV HD Tivos



## avandelay (Feb 12, 2007)

A couple of basic questions:

Apparently there is a waitlist of these from DirectTV. Anyone know how long the wait is?

What is the latest model?

Are people generally happy with this? I have a series one DTivo and it still works great but I want to get a new HD TV but don't want to give up Tivo. I would also rather not use the Cablecard technology of the Series 3.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Kevin


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

Kevin,

The waitlist seems to vary depending on area--I've seen some people saying they have to wait a month or two, and some people say "I just got it installed."

The latest HD-DVR from DirecTV is the HR20-700 (or HR20 for short). 

Are people generally happy?  Man, that's a question.

I think if you get MPEG4 channels with your dish you may have some issues. If you do a lot of manual recordings you may have some as well. I've not missed many shows (maybe 2) and had relatively few problems on mine.

It's not a TIVO, but in many ways it's better--or at least different.

There's a review of it here, if you search for it, and it shows you the interface differences.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Kevin;

Also, you can't get an HR10-250 from DirecTV any longer... except in cases of replacement of an existing one, and that one is even tough.

The HR10-250 hasn't been produced for over 18 months now.

So if you MUST stay with the TiVo interface, you will need to go the route of Ebay or another third party vendor.


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## avandelay (Feb 12, 2007)

Thanks. I think I am confused. I called Direct TV and asked if I could get an HD Tivo and they said yes but it would be a wait. Did they simply think I meant an HD-DVR or is it possible that they are still shipping the HD Direct TV Tivos?

And for now I don't want to give up my Tivo. I might if I absolutely have to but my understanding is that the Direct-DVR is far inferior to Tivo.

Thanks,

Kevin


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes... 99% sure, that they thought you ment HD-DVR

As the word "TiVo" has started to become to represent the technology, not necessarily the "company".

They are not shipping HR10-250's... On a RARE (very rare now), occasion it may occur, but highly unlikely.

As far as "inferior" all depends on who you ask...
As a lot of it depends on how *you* use the system.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As a lot of it depends on how *you* use the system.


This should not be a condition.

Given the way that DirecTV seems to damaging the reliability of the HR10 (through software updates or malformed guide data) and the recent spate of HR10 hard drive failures, it might be a wash for which one is flakier.

The answer to the question of "will it do what it is supposed to do" is "probably".

The HR20 has a few more things (some of which may not come into play) that are known not to work.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> This should not be a condition.
> 
> Given the way that DirecTV seems to damaging the reliability of the HR10 (through software updates or malformed guide data) and the recent spate of HR10 hard drive failures, it might be a wash for which one is flakier.
> 
> ...


The "Inferior" definition, when comparing the HR20 to the HR10... is 90% subjective... and dependent on the user in question.

I can argue both cases, depending on the usage case. That the HR20 is superior then the HR10-250, and that the HR10-250 is supuerior to the HR20... all depending on the user case.

And DirecTV is not "actively" damaging the HR10-250 (nor any of the DTivos). Just because they activate a data stream piece, which for what ever reason... affected the DTivos (regardless of reason... be it if the DTiVo wasn't compliant, or the data change wasn't compliant, or the compliance document was not complete)... They turned it off, once it was identified.

And the software updates are written by TiVo, Inc... DirecTV is responsible for approving them to go out, but they are still written by the beloved company... How come they don't get any fault in that? I mean didn't they approve the code version to be sent to DirecTV for their approval?

HR10 is now close the 3+ years old. Hard Drive failures are stastically probability. They are going to fail... the question is when. You may have one that fails in 1 week, but another that last 10 years... ultimately they will fail.


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

While I haven't had a chance for a hands-on audition of the HR20 I'd have to agree with what Earl says in principal. A Tivo has lots of features that some people never use and would therefore never miss with the HR20. As long as the HR20 records the shows that it's set up for then 99% of the people that own them will probably be happy with its performance. 

The real benefit of owning a Tivo is that it can be upgraded for capabilities above and beyond what a stock unit can provide. In that respect it is currently superior to any other DVR platform on the market. It's a hacker's dream machine. Unfortunately, that thought process doesn't mean diddly squat to DirecTV. It also doesn't mean much to anyone that has no interest in hacking their Tivos, which is why many current Tivo owners don't have a problem making the switch to the HR20. They're perfectly content with a plain vanilla DVR. That's why some people are content to drive Toyota Corollas and also why some people won't drive anything less than a Ferrari.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Something that no one else has mentioned so far in this thread. DirecTV is in the process of migrating hi-definition over to MPEG4 encoding, and there are no Tivo products that can receive and decode DirecTV's MPEG4.

If you get an HD Tivo (HR10-250), it will work for the 8 to 10 national HD channels that DirecTV currently has, but it will NOT be able to receive hi-def locals via satellite, and it will NOT be able to receive any new HD channels that are introduced. Eventually, the current MPEG2 HD channels will migrate over also, but no time frame has been established for that.

So, if you want HD from DirecTV, and you want a DVR, your only real option moving forward is the HR20. You will be throwing money away buying an HD DirecTivo.

Carl


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## captain_video (Nov 22, 2005)

You neglected to mention that many of us get a large percentage of our HD channels via OTA antenna with the HDTivo. This will not change even after the switch to mpeg4. Perhaps DTV will eventually waive the "HD access" fee for those of us that may wish to keep using our HDTivos as OTA recorders.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> And the software updates are written by TiVo, Inc... DirecTV is responsible for approving them to go out, but they are still written by the beloved company... How come they don't get any fault in that? I mean didn't they approve the code version to be sent to DirecTV for their approval?


Precisely because DirecTV distributes the code, they are responsible. They are responsible for not testing the software sufficiently and they are responsible for not holding TiVo's feet to the fire to make sure it is right before they release it.


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## Capmeister (Sep 16, 2003)

harsh said:


> Precisely because DirecTV distributes the code, they are responsible. They are responsible for not testing the software sufficiently and they are responsible for not holding TiVo's feet to the fire to make sure it is right before they release it.


I really think this "not testing sufficiently" is a myth on a lot of issues. I don't think it's possible unless you have thousands of boxes to test on, which just isn't feasable.

Face it--most "testing" occurs in production. What they should do is have fast back-out proceedures if needed.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

harsh said:


> Precisely because DirecTV distributes the code, they are responsible. They are responsible for not testing the software sufficiently and they are responsible for not holding TiVo's feet to the fire to make sure it is right before they release it.


I agree that DirecTV is responsible for it....

But who gets the blame if a software release doesn't come out? 
Because DirecTV keeps rejecting the one from TiVo...

Even if DirecTV comes out and says that it is TiVo is the cause for delaying it... DirecTV is the one that that has to take the blame and the "punishment" for it.

I do think that is one of the MANY factors that played into the split between DirecTV and TiVo.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Capmeister said:


> I really think this "not testing sufficiently" is a myth on a lot of issues. I don't think it's possible unless you have thousands of boxes to test on, which just isn't feasable. .


Some of the problemswith some DTV products are too wide spread and reproducible to be missed in any resposible testing scenario.

I'd have to be shown proof that they tried these basic operations on even a small handfull of lab machines and didn't see problems before I'd accept your view.


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