# 942 DVR monthy fee



## DRJDAN (Apr 28, 2002)

I talked to Dish today. They told me that if I add a 942 that I buy (I am on Dish Home Plan lease with receivers--will be returning 2 leased units), there would be no activation fee , but I would have a monthly $5 DVR fee. They did not say anything about telephone line connection.

My understanding from reading the Mark's review was that a $5 monthly fee only applied if you did not plug in telephone. Anyone have any experience with this?


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## gevange (Apr 3, 2005)

Yes, they charge the DVR fee unless you get the everything movie pak. George


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## dmodemd (Jul 5, 2002)

There is ANOTHER $5 additional receiver fee if you do NOT plug into a phone jack, otherwise they treat this dual tuner device as a SINGLE receiver. If its your 2nd receiver, there would be an additional $5 receiver fee as well....

Too many $5 fees, getting confusing... they nickel and dime you to death. Its stupid.


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

$4.99 fee if this is a second/third/etc receiver - the additional receiver fee.

$4.98 fee if you don't subscribe to AEP - the DVR fee.

$4.99 fee if you don't plug in a land line phone line

Fees, fees, fees...


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## Patrick Bennett (Dec 27, 2003)

Is the $5/DVR fee *per* 942, or is it a single charge no matter how many DVR's you have (like DirecTivo's).


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

with Dish DVR fees are per DVR, not per account like DirecTV.


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## Patrick Bennett (Dec 27, 2003)

grumble grumble...

Dish "nickle and dime you to death" Network.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> $4.99 fee if this is a second/third/etc receiver - the additional receiver fee.
> 
> $4.98 fee if you don't subscribe to AEP - the DVR fee.
> 
> ...


And add two more.

$5 lease fee for new subscribers that can do it.
$6 EPG fee. Who is going to use it w/o guide data?

That really starts to add up! Worst case = $26/mo in nickels and dimes! :blackeye:


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## Patrick Bennett (Dec 27, 2003)

When's the EPG fee charged?


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Patrick Bennett said:


> When's the EPG fee charged?


Here is how it works. You don't get an over the air, electronic programming guide unless you subscribe to locals. Without the EPG, life is hard. You have to set timers the same way you do a VCR, via station and time slot. NBR won't work without a guide. You could say it is an extortion type fee.

Here is another one to think about. Dish says they charge a DVR fee only on those units with a hard drive larger than 100GB. The 921/942 are included in this, and we get charged that fee. What they should do is look at how many hours you can record with it. While you can record a lot of that compressed SD crud, you can only record 25 hours of HD! With that measley capacity, the DVR fee should be removed, as the EPG guide fee (which isn't charged to the 811 and renders the DVR almost useless).

They could combine these fees together and I woudn't feel cheated. We need the EPG to make the DVR work. It seems that they could charge some sort of DVR fee which is the combination of a few things. What are they going to do when D* launches a DVR w/o Tivo? D* says there won't be a "Tivo fee" at that point for proprietary software. E* is looking expensive compared to the competition.


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

jsanders said:


> And add two more.
> 
> $5 lease fee for new subscribers that can do it.
> $6 EPG fee. Who is going to use it w/o guide data?
> ...


With the old DHP there is a lease fee for $5/mth. However with the newer DHA the $5/lease fee is replaced by the $5/outlet fee. If you only have one 942 in the DHA there would be no "leasing" fee (nor would there be an outlet fee) Also with the old DHP you do have to pay $6/month for the OTA EPG, but with the newer DHA, the locals are included with every package. I cannot accurately say much your bill would be with the DHP, I can say that your starting point with the DHA for one 942 (not factoring in any promotional rate or DHPP) with AT60 and HD Pak (locals and EPG included) *$46.96/mth*. (If you have your 942 plugged into a phoneline add 5 more dollars if you don't.)


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

KingLoop said:


> With the old DHP there is a lease fee for $5/mth. However with the newer DHA the $5/lease fee is replaced by the $5/outlet fee. If you only have one 942 in the DHA there would be no "leasing" fee (nor would there be an outlet fee) Also with the old DHP you do have to pay $6/month for the OTA EPG, but with the newer DHA, the locals are included with every package. I cannot accurately say much your bill would be with the DHP, I can say that your starting point with the DHA for one 942 (not factoring in any promotional rate or DHPP) with AT60 and HD Pak (locals and EPG included) *$46.96/mth*. (If you have your 942 plugged into a phoneline add 5 more dollars if you don't.)


That is all interesting, however, I wasn't referring to a DHA program. I was referring to the "new" customer that shelled out $250 for the opporunity to lease the 942 for $5/mo. Worst case scenario is $26/mo for the opportunity of having a 942 in your livingroom (that doesn't include the cost of programming).


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

jsanders said:


> That is all interesting, however, I wasn't referring to a DHA program. I was referring to the "new" customer that shelled out $250 for the opporunity to lease the 942 for $5/mo. Worst case scenario is $26/mo for the opportunity of having a 942 in your livingroom (that doesn't include the cost of programming).


The "New" customers would be in the DHA...that's the *only * way to get a 942 for the $250 upgrade, otherwise it's $700 MSRP. A 942 will raise a customer's bill by $15...$10 for the HD Pak and $5 for the DVR Fee. Again if the 942 is your only receiver and you have it continuasly connected to a phone line the AT60 would be $46.96/mth. This would include the locals as well so your guide would work for the OTA.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

KingLoop said:


> The "New" customers would be in the DHA...that's the *only * way to get a 942 for the $250 upgrade, otherwise it's $700 MSRP. A 942 will raise a customer's bill by $15...$10 for the HD Pak and $5 for the DVR Fee. Again if the 942 is your only receiver and you have it continuasly connected to a phone line the AT60 would be $46.96/mth. This would include the locals as well so your guide would work for the OTA.


Thanks KingLoop for explaining that, wasn't thinking that new customers would be required to be part of a DHA.

A large portion of us don't need compressed SD locals from the satellite, we get perfect HD locals OTA. Because of this, many of us, me included, don't see why we should have to pay for something we will never watch.

Let's look at your numbers. If the 942 is your only receiver, and you have a phone line connected, then it costs you $19.97/mo ($46.96 - $26.99/mo for AT60 w/o locals) for the opportunity to have a 942. Now, let's say that they don't have a phone line, add $5, and let's say the 942 is your 2nd receiver, add $5.

Worst case scenario is apparently more than I thought it was, at $29.97/mo just for the opportunity to have it in your livingroom! That is a racket if I've ever seen one. :nono2:


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

jsanders said:


> Thanks KingLoop for explaining that, wasn't thinking that new customers would be required to be part of a DHA.
> 
> A large portion of us don't need compressed SD locals from the satellite, we get perfect HD locals OTA. Because of this, many of us, me included, don't see why we should have to pay for something we will never watch.
> 
> ...


I agree the 942 will get your bill higher. I also agree that E* has alot of fees involved in their billing.

I guess my point is that there are a couple of things to consider here though. First off, to get that upgrade to a 942 for only $250 you have to be a new sub in the DHA. So, your base for the AT60 is $31.99. Because in the DHA the locals are automatically included. You can't omit them. Now, if you want HD you are going to need at least an 811. Now if you don't want to buy the 811 your only option is the DHA. So your AT60 with only one 811 you are at $41.99/mth. That is the least you can spend (not counting any promos of course.) Now if you upgrade that 811 to a 942, and keep it connected to your phone, it's only 5 more dollars. Not to much to upgrade there.

Now, lets say you have an 811 and a 522 (up to 3 tvs)the DHA again) would run $51.99/mth. If you had a 942 and a 311 for those same 3 tvs your bill would be exactly the same nothing extra.

So if a new sub wants to get HD and a DVR the 942 would be a good choice providing they thought the $250 was worth spending to upgrade.

For you or me the existing sub maybe it's not such a great deal. I have the AT120 W/O locals (with two 721s) for $55/mth. With the 942 (to make me happy) my bill would be about $81/mth. So yes,it seems like *"Oh my God!"* to look at the difference; But any newer DVR runs $5/mth. You gotta pay it. Also any HD programming runs $10/mth. The only way you get got is the EPG for $6/mth. Aside from that, all of the fees are associated with the other receivers too.(Plus the phone line thing sucks too.)


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Not defending Dish here... but some of these "fees" aren't really fees either.

People are counting the $10 HD Pack as a "fee"... but it isn't. It is the cost of the HD Pack... and why on earth would a Dish subscriber buy/lease a 942 if he wasn't going to subscribe to the HD Pack? I can't see what the point of having the HD receiver would be if you weren't going to add the HD programming.

Also, the $6 EPG fee... is really the cost of adding the locals. You get the locals for the $6, it isn't an episode guide fee. Now, yes, it is true that you need the locals to have the guide work properly for your OTA locals... and that might be a glitch in the system for the moment OR it might be intentional for them to force you to get the locals package... but the $6 is paying for locals, not just a fee.

The DVR fee is a fee... the extra receiver fee is a fee... and the no-phone-line-connection fee is a fee. Those are definate fees, some you can avoid others you can't depending on your configuration.

It just seems sometimes like the apples are getting mixed in with the oranges where fees are discussed, and I know a lot of folks are getting more confused than they need to be.

To say that a 942 will cost you $26+ a month isn't right... when you figure that there's no point in having it without the $10 HD Pack anyway, and the locals/episode guide is more a flaw than anything else and you can set your timers manually if you want I presume.

And the extra receiver fees are the same no matter what your extra receiver is... there are a couple of receivers doing the no-phone-line dance now which sucks, but it isn't 942 unique. Same goes for the DVR fee...


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## bavaria72 (Jun 10, 2004)

HDMe said:


> Not defending Dish here.....


Well stated HDMe. However not sure I agree with your stance on the HD package. I have an 811 and do not subscribe to the HD package. No compelling content for me (  ) primarily because I have OTA. But the rest I feel is right on. 2 fees, rest options (including no phone line).


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

HDMe said:


> People are counting the $10 HD Pack as a "fee"... but it isn't.


I agree, the HD Pack fee is legitimate, it is a subscription fee.

Why do you bring it up? What "people" are counting it that way in this thread? I didn't list it as a fee. I don't see any posts in this thread that do. I willingly subscribe to the HD pack.



HDMe said:


> Also, the $6 EPG fee... is really the cost of adding the locals. You get the locals for the $6, it isn't an episode guide fee. Now, yes, it is true that you need the locals to have the guide work properly for your OTA locals... and that might be a glitch in the system for the moment OR it might be intentional for them to force you to get the locals package... but the $6 is paying for locals, not just a fee.


Really just the cost of adding locals? I don't want locals, I get every station in my area perfectly with the OTA antenna. The picture is perfect, and in HD. I have ABSOLUTELY NO desire to watch the highly compressed, SD locals that dish provides. This is not a "glitch in the system", Echostar very much did this intentionally to raise money. The decision was made with the 921 late last fall. Mark posted that decision in the 921 discussion board with the thread, "OTA Guide Data and Local Package Subscription - YOU MUST SUBSCRIBE"
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36079

The day they gave us this release (L211?), I had guide data, and I immediately cancelled locals. Immediately, I lost my guide data. If you look at the 921 message board, you will find that I was the first one to post this correlation, which raised that whole issue.

Dish charges a DVR fee, yet, w/o a $6 local subscription, your DVR is next to useless! That isn't right!



HDMe said:


> To say that a 942 will cost you $26+ a month isn't right... when you figure that there's no point in having it without the $10 HD Pack anyway, and the locals/episode guide is more a flaw than anything else and you can set your timers manually if you want I presume.
> 
> And the extra receiver fees are the same no matter what your extra receiver is... there are a couple of receivers doing the no-phone-line dance now which sucks, but it isn't 942 unique. Same goes for the DVR fee...


I think you need to do a little more research......

First, look at how I calculated the $26, there is no $10 HD Pack included. The local subscription fee is not a flaw, it is intentional. It is not true that extra receiver fees are the same regardless of which model you own. The 921 does not have a fee if you don't have the phone line connected. The 501/510/721 do not have a DVR fee. The 811 does NOT require a local subscription to get over the air guide data.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

Sorry, but it sounds like to me you want something for nothing. Dish is providing the local OTA guide to those who subscribe to locals, and I see no problem with that. If you don't want to subscribe to the locals, then get a TV Guide subscription.

Ken


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

kstevens said:


> Sorry, but it sounds like to me you want something for nothing. Dish is providing the local OTA guide to those who subscribe to locals, and I see no problem with that. If you don't want to subscribe to the locals, then get a TV Guide subscription.


Something for nothing? Hmmm. Interesting concept. What about that hidden $5 in all of the subscription packs? When you cancel ATxx, dish charges you $5/mo, which they say is actually included in AT60 through AEP. It is an infrastructure fee.

If you think that is something for nothing, then the 811 users get something for nothing, as they don't have to pay for a local subscription to get local guide data, although they do pay the $5/mo infrastructure fee.

What about the FCC mandate to provide guide data for FREE through PSIP. While that doesn't go out nine days, Dish doesn't let us see what is given to us for free, they want to charge us for their version!

Why is it that you can see guide data for channels you don't subscribe on the satellite?

For what it is worth, I don't mind paying a $5 fee for the DVR, and the $5 hidden infrastructure fee. I don't think I should have to pay a $5 DVR fee, a $5 infrastructure fee, and then pay a $6 local subscription fee on top of top of that to enable the DVR functionality. Just give me guide data *separate* from the local subscription. It isn't hard to do, they did it for the 811. It should be rolled into the DVR fee because it enables DVR functionality.


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## kstevens (Mar 26, 2003)

It doesn't prevent you from using the dvr features, you just have to program manual timers on ota. Not the most convenient, but not impossible either.

Ken


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

KingLoop said:


> The "New" customers would be in the DHA...that's the *only * way to get a 942 for the $250 upgrade, otherwise it's $700 MSRP. *A 942 will raise a customer's bill by $15...$10 for the HD Pak and $5 for the DVR Fee.* Again if the 942 is your only receiver and you have it continuasly connected to a phone line the AT60 would be $46.96/mth. This would include the locals as well so your guide would work for the OTA.


HDMe has it right. The post I quoted above at least sounds like it is being added in as a fee because that is how I read it before I read HDME's post. Also the guide fee really is a misnomer. You are paying to get the locals. I do see the point being made that the 811 gives you the guide without the locals.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jsanders said:


> I agree, the HD Pack fee is legitimate, it is a subscription fee.
> 
> Why do you bring it up? What "people" are counting it that way in this thread? I didn't list it as a fee. I don't see any posts in this thread that do. I willingly subscribe to the HD pack.


I didn't say that you were... that's why I didn't reply to a specific post. There is at least one post here in this thread (and I've seen in others) that treat the $10 HD pack as if it were a fee... so some people are counting it as one since they are forced to subscribe to the HD Pack for a year with some upgrade offers.



jsanders said:


> Really just the cost of adding locals? I don't want locals, I get every station in my area perfectly with the OTA antenna. The picture is perfect, and in HD. I have ABSOLUTELY NO desire to watch the highly compressed, SD locals that dish provides. This is not a "glitch in the system", Echostar very much did this intentionally to raise money. The decision was made with the 921 late last fall.


I understand what you're saying here... and I actually agree with you, as I have all of my locals in digital OTA and all but UPN broadcast in HD when programming is available... so I have little use for the SD locals package myself.

I was only pointing out that there is no $6 episode guide fee... it is a $6 fee for the locals, and it just so happens that they've tied one purchase to the other. That doesn't make it a $6 episode guide fee. From what I've heard anyway, even with that the episode guide wouldn't have programming info for my local sub-channels... so I'm trained to set that kind of recording manually anyway when the time comes.

I would like to think they will improve the episode guide and drop that locals requirement though, but I suspect they won't.



jsanders said:


> I think you need to do a little more research......
> 
> First, look at how I calculated the $26, there is no $10 HD Pack included. The local subscription fee is not a flaw, it is intentional. It is not true that extra receiver fees are the same regardless of which model you own. The 921 does not have a fee if you don't have the phone line connected. The 501/510/721 do not have a DVR fee. The 811 does NOT require a local subscription to get over the air guide data.


I never said *you* counted the $10 HD pack... Some people do, however.

But your math isn't quite right either. Here are the fees as I understand them for a 942:

$5 lease/extra receiver fee -> IF the 942 is your ONLY receiver, you would not have this fee. IF you have 2+ receivers (regardless of model) you'd pay the same $5 per receiver regardless of model.

$5 DVR fee -> IF you don't subscribe to the AEP, you pay a $5 DVR fee for any of the newer DVRs... I believe 522, 921, and 942 all have this fee... and presumably any DVR from now on will have it as well. Not unique to the 942.

$5 phone line fee -> IF you don't connect to a phone line, you are charged this fee. I believe this is for the dual-tuner DVRs, so 522 and 942 both have this fee.

I am not aware of any other "fees"... There is the $10 HD Pack, but it isn't a fee... There are the $6 locals, but that isn't a fee. The 522 is a DVR, and you can't record locals on it without having the $6 local pack... but the rest of the DVR works just fine without locals... so it isn't unique to the 942.

Please read carefully... I am *not* saying I like all the fees... I think the phone line one is bad for folks that don't have a standard land-line phone... and the DVR fee is kind of bogus since I have a 501 and it is a "PVR" so no fees, but it does the same as some of the DVRs that have the fee!

I just see a lot of folks confused by the fees... and they add a bunch of stuff together and it seems daunting, when some of what they are adding aren't fees, and others are fees that can be avoided or "chosen" to some extent.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

bavaria72 said:


> Well stated HDMe. However not sure I agree with your stance on the HD package. I have an 811 and do not subscribe to the HD package. No compelling content for me (  ) primarily because I have OTA. But the rest I feel is right on. 2 fees, rest options (including no phone line).


Thanks... Actually, after I posted that... it did occur to me that there might be a few folks who went with an HD receiver primarily to get the OTA tuner. Telling the truth, when I was shopping around at the time and found just an OTA tuner set-top box would run me several hundred dollars... I figured the money was better spent investing in the 6000 from Dish so I could get their HD too if I wanted.

So... if you're in a good area for digital & HD OTA like I am, and apparently you are, I can see why you might go with an HD receiver but not want the HD Pack. In that case, being forced into an HD Pack subscription for a year via upgrade scenarios might not be a good thing.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

HDMe said:


> I didn't say that you were... that's why I didn't reply to a specific post. There is at least one post here in this thread (and I've seen in others) that treat the $10 HD pack as if it were a fee... so some people are counting it as one since they are forced to subscribe to the HD Pack for a year with some upgrade offers.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I never said *you* counted the $10 HD pack... Some people do, however.


From post #16, you said, 


HDMe said:


> To say that a 942 will cost you $26+ a month isn't right... when you figure that there's no point in having it without the $10 HD Pack anyway, and the locals/episode guide is more a flaw than anything else and you can set your timers manually if you want I presume.


Here you are referring to $26+/mo in fees. I am the only one that stated that number in this thread, you were referring to me. Then you say that I figure, "there's no point in having it without the $10 HD Pack anyway". This implies that you think I added that into my list. I did not. You did use the word, "you" by the way, just read your quote from post #16.

HDMe, please state which post in this thread brought up the HD Pack as a "fee" before you mentioned it. I've looked through this thread, and you, HDMe, are the first person to mention it.



HDMe said:


> But your math isn't quite right either. Here are the fees as I understand them for a 942:


So, after this you proceed to list all of the fees, but you failed to point out any math errors. I don't have any disagreement with the fees you listed.

I won't argue those fees anymore as my argument in post #8 lists the fees for a *worst* case scenario, and my argument in post #18 still stands.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jsanders said:


> From post #16, you said,
> 
> Here you are referring to $26+/mo in fees. I am the only one that stated that number in this thread, you were referring to me.


"You" doesn't always mean you... In this reply, I am directly replying to you, quoting you, etc... in my first post in this thread, the "you" is generic to whomever is doing the counting.



jsanders said:


> Then you say that I figure, "there's no point in having it without the $10 HD Pack anyway". This implies that you think I added that into my list. I did not. You did use the word, "you" by the way, just read your quote from post #16.
> 
> HDMe, please state which post in this thread brought up the HD Pack as a "fee" before you mentioned it. I've looked through this thread, and you, HDMe, are the first person to mention it.


For argument's sake... Go back and look at the posts between KingLoop and yourself that occur before my original post. KingLoop mentions a $15 cost which includes the HD Pack, then you use his numbers to come up with a $29.97 fee that absolutely does include the HD Pack since KingLoop's original numbers included it.

Maybe you weren't aware you did this... but you did.



jsanders said:


> So, after this you proceed to list all of the fees, but you failed to point out any math errors. I don't have any disagreement with the fees you listed.
> 
> I won't argue those fees anymore as my argument in post #8 lists the fees for a *worst* case scenario, and my argument in post #18 still stands.


Since there are only three $5 fees... the "worst case" scenario would be $15 if the 942 was a second receiver, wasn't connected to a phone line, and wasn't on AEP so the DVR fee applied.

Since you didn't disagree with the fees I posted, then we must be in agreement. Anything else ($10 HD pack, $6 for locals) is for extra programming and isn't a fee... so it shouldn't really be advertised like a fee, in my opinion especially if it unnecessarily discourages folks from signing up because they think they pay $31 in "fees"...


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

Mark Lamutt said:


> ...*$4.99 fee if this is a second/third/etc receiver - the additional receiver fee*.





jsanders said:


> And add two more.
> 
> *$5 lease fee for new subscribers that can do it.*
> $6 EPG fee. Who is going to use it w/o guide data?...


jsanders, not to beat a dead horse here, or repeat anything posted already in this thread, but you will never pay both a 2nd receiver fee and a lease fee. It would be one or the other. If you own your stuff it's the _outlet fee_ if you lease your stuff it's a _lease fee_* never both.*

The bottom line is choose your programming, choose your configuration, choose whether you want to buy or lease, see how much the cost is, and decide if you think it is worth what you'll pay for what you'll get.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

KingLoop said:


> jsanders, not to beat a dead horse here, or repeat anything posted already in this thread, but you will never pay both a 2nd receiver fee and a lease fee. It would be one or the other. If you own your stuff it's the _outlet fee_ if you lease your stuff it's a _lease fee_* never both.*


The horse ain't dead if we keep feeding it all these fees!  I went to the dish website to look at these things as a new customer to see what I am charged. You're right! You aren't charged a 2nd receiver fee and the lease fee, which actually sounds like a good deal, all thing considered. Thanks for that insight!

You will also notice there are limitations to it though. For instance, you can't lease two 942 receivers. I had to call Dish to verify that one.

If you wanted a couple 942s, you would be charged a lease fee for one, then a 2nd receiver fee for the other, however, that $250 upgrade fee works out to $5/mo for a little over 4 years, or the $700 purchased for the second one which is...... Anyway, I'm just playing around with numbers there. The bottom line is, you are right. Thanks for your insight.


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

jsanders said:


> ...Thanks for your insight.


jsanders, any time.

I build DHA accounts daily, so if I know anything, I know how much a customer's bill is going to be. The way E* has their billing setup; with additional fees, ala carte programming options, DHPP, HD, DVRs, DHA, and DHP... well it is hard to keep up. However, you tell me your configuration, you tell me your programming, I'll tell you your rate.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

HDMe said:


> "You" doesn't always mean you... In this reply, I am directly replying to you, quoting you, etc... in my first post in this thread, the "you" is generic to whomever is doing the counting.


You were referring my number of $26/mo. It isn't unreasonable to assume that you were referring to me.



HDMe said:


> For argument's sake... Go back and look at the posts between KingLoop and yourself that occur before my original post. KingLoop mentions a $15 cost which includes the HD Pack, then you use his numbers to come up with a $29.97 fee that absolutely does include the HD Pack since KingLoop's original numbers included it.
> 
> Maybe you weren't aware you did this... but you did.


You're right, I wasn't paying close enough attention to that. I was thinking of the other offer Dish has right now, offering the HD Pack for free for 6 months. Here is the breakdown for the DHA according to the Dish website:

One Time Fees
LEASE EQUIPMENT UPGRADE $250.00
Digital Home Plan Activation Fee $49.99
One Time Cost: $299.99
Monthly Equipment Fees
DISH Network DVR Service Fee $4.98
Programming
America's Top 60 (with locals) $31.99
DISH Network HD Pack $9.99



HDMe said:


> Since you didn't disagree with the fees I posted, then we must be in agreement. Anything else ($10 HD pack, $6 for locals) is for extra programming and isn't a fee... so it shouldn't really be advertised like a fee, in my opinion especially if it unnecessarily discourages folks from signing up because they think they pay $31 in "fees"...


That is sophestry. I didn't disagree with you about the fees you posted (although I do disagree about the 2nd receiver fee now), and I think there are more fees. Notice that what I posted from the dish website puts fees into two different categories: Programming fees, and equipment fees.

The phone line issue isn't a programming fee, it is an equipment fee. It is not an equipment fee for the 921, it is an equipment fee specifically for the 942.

The locals fee seems to straddle this into a gray area. One one hand, it is a subscription fee. For those that don't want a subscription, it is an equipment fee because it enables DVR functionality. Without the local subscription, you don't have name based recording for your local networks, even though you receive them in all of their HD glory through a terrestrial antenna. The DVR fee should enable DVR functionality, but in this case, a twisted subscription fee does that job.

The worst case is that you don't have a phone line. It sounds like your suggesting that not having a phone line connected is not worse than having a phone line connected. I say it is worse because it costs the subscriber $5/mo.

According to KingLoop, and the dish website, there isn't a 2nd receiver fee when paying a lease fee! I tried it on the website by trying to lease a 942 and a 625, no 2nd receiver fee. Although, they do charge you the 2nd receiver fee on boxes they give for free, like the 510.

Worst case:
$5/mo DVR fee
$5/mo lease fee, or 2nd receiver fee (NOT both)
$6/mo locals fee
$5/mo no phone connected fee.

You are right, people may get confused by these fees. And you can't just tell them it is going to cost you $21/mo worst case for the 942. However, you can't tell them that it doesn't cost them anything either. They need to understand what everything is, and what their charges will be for their circumstances.


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

jsanders said:


> Worst case:
> $5/mo DVR fee
> $5/mo lease fee, or 2nd receiver fee (NOT both)
> *$6/mo locals fee*
> ...


Ok, we're almost there. Just like there is no _outlet fee_, but it's a _lease fee_... there is *no charge * for your locals, the base $31.99/mth for the AT60 is all inclusive (locals and and lease on the first receiver). Go past (1) 311 and the AT60 then your pricing is subject to change.

For the sake of argument, 
jsanders, Let's say you have a 942 and a 625 with AT60 W/Locals plus the HDPak and nothing else and neither of these receivers are connected to a phone line.

AT60..........................$31.99
HDPak............................9.99
(2) DVR Fees...................9.96
(2) No phone fees...........10.00
Additional outlet.............. 5.00

Grand Total..................$66.94/mth.

So, the question is, is a pimp ass HD Dual DVR and a pimp ass VOD Dual DVR on up to 4 T.V.'s altogether worth $320 at the door ($50 of which comes off your 1st bill) and $67/mth for the top 60 W/HDPak?


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## hildred (Aug 19, 2003)

is- hd.pack is this force on you i do not need hdpack so if i have top 120 and local channel hbo.showtime in hd how much is that


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

hildred said:


> is- hd.pack is this force on you i do not need hdpack so if i have top 120 and local channel hbo.showtime in hd how much is that


With a 942?
AT120 W/HBO & SHO... about $81/mth.
You do need to subscribe to the HDPak to get HBO or SHO in HD. If you are not in the DHA it's a dollar more W/Locals, $5 less W/O


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

KingLoop said:


> jsanders, Let's say you have a 942 and a 625 with AT60 W/Locals plus the HDPak and nothing else and neither of these receivers are connected to a phone line.
> 
> AT60..........................$31.99
> HDPak............................9.99
> ...


Hmmm. You're right. I did that on the dish website, and it came out to $56.94, then add $10/mo for no phone connection, and you get $56.94. This outlet fee you are talking about is labled "Digital Home Advantage (2 Receiver)" on the website.

Now I'm confused. It almost starts to seem random at this point, however, it does actually appear to be slightly cheaper than what I expected.


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

It's all in my brain 

Anyway the premise behind the "No Phoneline" fee is, it's not really a fee for *NOT* having a phoneline connected. It is an _outlet_ that E* waives if you connect the Dual Receiver to a phoneline. This outlet fee applies to the 322, 522, 625, and 942. The reason it is not on the 721 and 921 is that each of these receivers will only give you independent programming on 1 TV. As far as E* is concerned the 322, 522, 625, and 942s are 2 IRDs respectively. So you owe them $5/mth per anyway. If you help them keep tabs on these receivers with the phone line they will _waive_ the fee.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

jsanders said:


> You were referring my number of $26/mo. It isn't unreasonable to assume that you were referring to me.


I understand... Sometimes reading these posts can be as confusing as the Dish subscriber agreements! 



jsanders said:


> The phone line issue isn't a programming fee, it is an equipment fee. It is not an equipment fee for the 921, it is an equipment fee specifically for the 942.


While it may not be immediately obvious... the "phone line fee" applies to more receivers than just the 942. I forget which ones it applies to (KingLoop posted a list I think in another post). It is not a fee I like, but it isn't unique to the 942.



jsanders said:


> The locals fee seems to straddle this into a gray area. One one hand, it is a subscription fee. For those that don't want a subscription, it is an equipment fee because it enables DVR functionality. Without the local subscription, you don't have name based recording for your local networks, even though you receive them in all of their HD glory through a terrestrial antenna. The DVR fee should enable DVR functionality, but in this case, a twisted subscription fee does that job.


I don't disagree with you that it is a screwy thing to link the OTA locals guide info to the local SD subscription. At first I thought maybe there was a technical limitation, but since it works differently on some receivers and apparently was a conscious decision by Dish... I guess it is a way to make extra money.

That said, I don't think the guide info gives you all the sub-channels for your OTA locals anyway... and if that's the case, I'd probably be making manual recording settings anyway so I could save the $6 and live without the guide info kinda like I do now.



jsanders said:


> The worst case is that you don't have a phone line. It sounds like your suggesting that not having a phone line connected is not worse than having a phone line connected. I say it is worse because it costs the subscriber $5/mo.


I don't like the "phone line" fee... and I know it can be a problem for folks that don't have a landline phone. People with some DSL, cable-phone, or just going the cell-phone route will be stuck with this $5 fee and that sucks... For me, it would be aggravating to have to run a line but I'd do it to avoid the fee.. I don't do PPV or any of the other stuff that normally requires a phone line connection for day-to-day functions, though...

I agree this one is a "how can we make a buck" fee...



jsanders said:


> According to KingLoop, and the dish website, there isn't a 2nd receiver fee when paying a lease fee!


This one can be confusing... but basically... either you own a receiver or you lease it... and it is either your first (primary) receiver or it isn't... IF it is your primary receiver, then no lease/2nd receiver fee applies.

IF it is your second receiver, then whether you lease it or you own it you will pay $5 fee for having it active. It shows as a lease fee for a leased receiver, but shows as an additional receiver fee if you own it.

I originally had 2 leased receivers... I returned one of them when I bought my 6000 receiver. My bill went down $5 for the dropped lease fee on the 2nd receiver... BUT went up $5 for the additional receiver fee at the same time, so it was a wash.

As far as discussing 942 related fees... this really is not 942 specific. If you add a 2nd receiver (regardless the model) you pay a fee... whether you own it or you lease it... if it isn't the primary one.

Confusing, I know! 



jsanders said:


> You are right, people may get confused by these fees. And you can't just tell them it is going to cost you $21/mo worst case for the 942. However, you can't tell them that it doesn't cost them anything either. They need to understand what everything is, and what their charges will be for their circumstances.


Absolutely... ultimately you kinda have to decide what you think you want (equipment and programming)... then do the math to see what it will cost... then you can play with things to see what fees you can avoid vs what programming you absolutely need and so forth.

Fun!


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## kwajr (Apr 7, 2004)

HAVE YOU EVER LOOKED at a time warner bill you even get charged for the remote to there box


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## jeslevine (Jul 21, 2002)

KingLoop said:


> It's all in my brain
> 
> Anyway the premise behind the "No Phoneline" fee is, it's not really a fee for *NOT* having a phoneline connected. It is an _outlet_ that E* waives if you connect the Dual Receiver to a phoneline. This outlet fee applies to the 322, 522, 625, and 942. The reason it is not on the 721 and 921 is that each of these receivers will only give you independent programming on 1 TV. As far as E* is concerned the 322, 522, 625, and 942s are 2 IRDs respectively. So you owe them $5/mth per anyway. If you help them keep tabs on these receivers with the phone line they will _waive_ the fee.


I have a 721, and I can have two independent recordings going on each line

Appreciate a clarification,

Thanks


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

jeslevine said:


> I have a 721, and I can have two independent recordings going on each line
> 
> Appreciate a clarification,
> 
> Thanks


The 721 (which I have 2, neither are connected to a phoneline) while it has 2 tuners, is only a 1 television receiver, so there would be no tv 2 connected (while you can record 2 shows you can only watch 1 at a time) the 322, 522, 625, and 942 all have a TV 2 output. So according to E* the outlet fee is *waived* if you connect your dual receiver to a phoneline. It's not really a fee for not having it connected, the outlet fee just *isn't* waived if you don't have it connected.


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## jeslevine (Jul 21, 2002)

Thanks for the explanation KingLoop, I appreciate it


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## KingLoop (Mar 3, 2005)

No problem, as I've said before, E*'s billing is kinda hard to keep up with.


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