# So...are they ever going to fix the R15?



## CodeWhisperer (Oct 17, 2006)

A few months back we decided that our old UltimateTV was, after 4 years or so, getting a little long in the tooth and that it was time to upgrade. 

What a mistake. Of course, DTV was pushing their R15 and we really could not have been more deeply disappointed by it. Simple things we took for granted (like the fact that the USB keyboard worked for the UltimateTV, but not for the R15) weren't supported, but we learned to live without those.

If it were just reduced functionality, I could live with it...but this R15 is the buggiest piece of software I've ever seen -- and I work for Microsoft! As someone who has made their living writing software for the last 20 years, I can easily see that this is the buggiest piece of hardware I have _ever_ seen. It's astonishingly bad in ways that, honestly, I don't even have words to express.

I waited a few months, but I seem to have the latest version (0x104B on the R15-300) going back to August...the bizarre thing is that it is manifesting NEW bad behaviors. Today the thing just started hanging, needing a reset to get out of it...3 times in 4 hours after not happening at all for 10 weeks. Another new behavior: when recording 2 shows, sometimes one will fail leaving nothing to view...and when you delete the failed one, it deletes the successful one as well!

Is there any hope that this machine will be fixed, or is it time to call up DTV and have them re-activate the UltimateTV? (Can I still do that?)

It's sad that a 4 year old box so COMPLETELY decimates one produced just recently...and it's a sad statement regarding the software development behind the R15 hardware. It is so far from production quality code that I have to imagine that either a) there was zero testing, or b) it was intentionally released with the full knowledge that it was buggy like crazy -- and apparently even with a year to work on it they couldn't fix it.

Astonishing, just astonishing. And it only cost me $100. What a bargain! >sigh< 

-cw


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## Slyster (May 17, 2005)

Just bite the bullet and get the HR20. Works VERY good. Do you have an HDTV?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Yes, the R15 has a significant update that is in the testing phase.
So as soon as it clears, you should hopefully see a "NEW" R15


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## BetaTester (Jul 12, 2006)

Wanna bet? I submit that the next "significant update" will introduce more problems 
than it fixes. Every update since I purchased my 2 units in December have done the same. I now have 2 R15's that will not even record and playback as reliably as they did when I purchased the units. This optimism of "next release will fix it" has gotten tired for me and I've given up and gone with used R10's from Ebay.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Slyster said:


> Just bite the bullet and get the HR20. Works VERY good. Do you have an HDTV?


Do you have a different HR20 than the one that is being discussed on the HR20 side of this forum? To me it sounds like a repeat of the R15, back around February time.


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

CodeWhisperer said:


> A few months back we decided that our old UltimateTV was, after 4 years or so, getting a little long in the tooth and that it was time to upgrade.


You got rid of a functional, reliable DVR just because it was old?

Maybe your kids will take the same attitude toward you someday.

The R15 is your instant karma payback


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Do you have a different HR20 than the one that is being discussed on the HR20 side of this forum? To me it sounds like a repeat of the R15, back around February time.


It sure does appear to be that way, doesn't it. At first, we thought that the HR20 was going to be a really solid product, but as time passes, it appears to be experiencing many of the same (or similar) problems as the R15.

We were advised that the HR20 was different in that D* built the R15 software on top of an NDS foundation, but that the HR20 was built from the ground up so it would not suffer the same problems. The underlying software foundation and OS may or may not be different, but it appears that the higher level software suffers many of the same problems, or same type of problems.

Both units appear to have widely varying performance characteristics. One person can have a unit that works very well for a long time, while another has consistent problems with multiple units.

I've got two R15's, which for the most part have worked well. But they have had their problems, and it is very frustrating when they do. Nor am I confident that problems won't recur. I really am looking forward to the next software upgrade, and I hope it does address most/all of the issues on the R15, but I won't be very surprised if it doesn't.

I am holding off on an HR20. I thought about getting one, but at this point in time it makes no sense to do so. I'll wait until (a) OTA is enabled, AND (b) indications are that it is a more stable unit than it is right now.

From what Earl has posted, both R15 and HR20 should be getting software upgrades over the next month or so that are expected to resolve many/most/all of the problems the units are experiencing. I sure hope they come through on this.

Carl


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

carl6 said:


> From what Earl has posted, both R15 and HR20 should be getting software upgrades over the next month or so that are expected to resolve many/most/all of the problems the units are experiencing. I sure hope they come through on this.
> 
> Carl


:eek2: <- Me, holding breath for almost a year.

Yes, in painfully slow dribbles the R15 is improving. Foolishly we expected better.


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## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

ISWIZ said:


> :eek2: <- Me, holding breath for almost a year.
> 
> Yes, in painfully slow dribbles the R15 is improving. Foolishly we expected better.


Go Skins.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

mrb said:


> Go Skins.


Yeah, they too are slowly improving.:lol:


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## mrb (Sep 14, 2006)

ISWIZ said:


> Yeah, they too are slowly improving.:lol:


Was at FedEx on Sunday...I can't agree they're improving. Miserable loss to the Titans. If we have to wait as long for this unit to gel as we've had to wait for the R15 to function like it's supposed to we're in trouble. Nooooooooooooo!


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

mrb said:


> Was at FedEx on Sunday...I can't agree they're improving. Miserable loss to the Titans. If we have to wait as long for this unit to gel as we've had to wait for the R15 to function like it's supposed to we're in trouble. Nooooooooooooo!


Oh WAAAAA! Try being a Lions fan. :lol: That's truly painful! Born in MI = Love the Lions, Live in AZ = Support the Cardinals. We all know what the Cards did last night. At least I've got the Tigers right now.


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

I am throughly disgusted with the R 15 I have tried so hard to believe that this unit is fixable. Right now I am all out of hope. Since last week the R 15 has been totally ignoring my number one auto record in the prioritizer although it had been picking it up before that. And it is back to ignoring the Colts games, unless it picks them up from the NFL Sunday Ticket channels, and I don't get NFL ST. I use a custom favorites list. It ignores the games on my local channels and tries to schedule them from the NFL ST channels anyway. I realize I can do a search for Colts, sports, football and manually schedule the games, it doesn't take long. But dog gone it, I shouldn't have to!! What is the point of a series link or autorecord if the darned machine ignores them anyway. 

I have to babysit the TDL each and every single day more then once a day to be certain my shows, my series links are still on the TDL or that they've even been placed there in the first place. And if I don't put the R 15 in standby each and every blessed time I leave the room for two seconds, I come back to a locked up unit. I am beyond frustrated and beyond tired of this nonsense. There is NO excuse for a DVR that won't even function at the very basic level, which is to record user scheduled shows in a reliable manner. I have truly had it with this thing. Sorry but I just needed to vent, I am just really fed up. I had no quarrel with D* until the good ole blue eyed monster darkened my door. I just want it gone. 

But yet I don't want to leave D*, I actually like D* believe it or not but I want/need a reliable DVR, the HR 20 is not an option for this set because it is a standard definition set and they won't authorize an HR 20 for a non HDTV. I know the HR 20 is far from perfect, but so far it (I have one for my other TV which is a HDTV) is recognizing and scheduling my series links and auto records a far cry from the R 15, although admittedly it too places NFL ST games on the TDL also, ignoring my custom favorites list of channels.

FYI, I have tried deleting everything from the prioritizer and starting from scratch, I've tried numerous red button resets and even unplugging, still the R 15 ignores programs it was picking up just two weeks ago. It is also dumping some of my series link recordings just arbutrarily, (spelling incorrect I know, sorry), like it will list General Hospital for Monday not list Tuesdays episode or Wed. but list it again for the following Monday, and this is a good 48 hours after a red button reset when the programs are listed in the program guide but not on the TDL. Or it picks up only repeats of a show I have set for first run ONLY. There is no sense to any of that.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Mercurial,

Have you tried the Down Arrow/REC reformat? It wipes EVERYTHING and folks usually get good results. Try that and when that's complete do a Reset Everything which will run you through the guided setup again.


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Mercurial,
> 
> Have you tried the Down Arrow/REC reformat? It wipes EVERYTHING and folks usually get good results. Try that and when that's complete do a Reset Everything which will run you through the guided setup again.


Thanks Wolff, actually I haven't tried the Down Arrow/REC reformat since June when advanced Tech Support promised me it would solve all lock up/freezing with the unit. I gave up about 15 or so movies to do the reformat and the unit locked up again within 24 hours, so I have been loathe to try that again at least until I clear some movies again. I will probably try it just for "giggles" but I don't have much faith that anything will help this stupid piece of junk at this point. But again, thanks for the advice.


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

If this next update fixes anything, It's because D* finally fired their software team and hired some others that knew what they were doing!:lol:


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## fu_paladins (Oct 10, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Yes, the R15 has a significant update that is in the testing phase.
> So as soon as it clears, you should hopefully see a "NEW" R15


I can't wait. Bring it on and let me QA it some. I won't stress it too hard but we'll know if it fixes up the basic issues. I just wish someone would give me some idea of a timeframe. October? November? December? I had planned to donate my VCR to get a tax write off this year but can't seem to cut the cord until I know my R15 is up to the load.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

irmolars said:


> If this next update fixes anything, It's because D* finally fired their software team and hired some others that knew what they were doing!:lol:


IMO, taking into account my history in this area, I'm 99% sure the problem is not with the coders or development team so much as it is in management.


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

ApK said:


> You got rid of a functional, reliable DVR just because it was old?
> 
> Maybe your kids will take the same attitude toward you someday.
> 
> The R15 is your instant karma payback


If Ultimate TV service was 5.99 instead of 9.99, I'd reactivate my UTV. But I'm not paying an extra 4 bucks a month.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

FLWingNut said:


> If Ultimate TV service was 5.99 instead of 9.99, I'd reactivate my UTV. But I'm not paying an extra 4 bucks a month.


That was only 1/2 my issue. One of the two UTV's was having overheating issues so It would stay on. If I could find two other UTV's and had some way to make sure that they wouldn't overheat or have tuners go out I think I'd go back too. It was so nice to be able to just drop in a new HD and have it autoupgrade. No limits, Channel 1020, (almost) no missed recordings, autopadding, PIP, switching buffers, ~137GB of HD space just for me (with upgraded HD)...... Ahh, memories.


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

I hear ya. I think the UTV was the best -- better than Tivo and better than the R15. But 9.95 vs 4.99 (at the time), plus the ability to get multiple boxes made me switch to the D*Tivo.

I was really hoping the R15 would be as good as UTV, but alas...


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

FLWingNut said:


> I hear ya. I think the UTV was the best -- better than Tivo


Never tried it. Tivo was my first , and therefore my most special love. 

What do you like better about UTV over Tivo? Just curious.


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## xtoyz (Apr 13, 2006)

Channel 1020? Did I miss something?

..Oh, and you guys should try being Bills fans. You think you wanna slit your wrists from the R15, try living in Western NY.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

Channel 1020 was the channel that the UTV used to display the My Shows recorded programs.

My Shows on the UTV is the same as the Now Playing List on the Tivo.


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## FLWingNut (Nov 19, 2005)

ApK said:


> Never tried it. Tivo was my first , and therefore my most special love.
> 
> What do you like better about UTV over Tivo? Just curious.


PIP, which you could swap at will, picture-in-guide, fast menus, on-screen caller ID that would scroll across the bottomof your picture, a "stop" button on the remote (instead of that goofy left arrow press to stop your show), longer buffer (I think it was 60 minutes), groups (long before Tivo had them), and just a generally more elegant interface, IMO.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

xtoyz said:


> Channel 1020? Did I miss something?
> 
> ..Oh, and you guys should try being Bills fans. You think you wanna slit your wrists from the R15, try living in Western NY.


It was also nice because when you where done watching a show it would dump you to channel 1020 (if you "tuned" to it) so you didn't get stuck watching live TV and seeing the show that your recording right now (ie. you finish watching a show and then delete it, next thing you know your seeing who is getting voted out of Big Brother).


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

FLWingNut said:


> longer buffer (I think it was 60 minutes


I'm pretty sure it was dual 90 min buffers.


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## tstarn (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't own an R15, because my wife wouldn't have it. Instead, we have two R10s running, and two more in my closet (got them used on eBay) for future use. Never had a single problem with either my old Tivo (standalone), the old Hughes Directivo, or any of the R10s. I mean, they do break, but no problems in terms of recording, etc. I'd rather pay for stuff that works than get free stuff that doesn't, I guess (my HR20 was free, but I would have gladly paid if it was as reliable as a Tivo). Did anyone actually have to pay for the R15?


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## jpl (Jul 9, 2006)

tstarn said:


> I don't own an R15, because my wife wouldn't have it. Instead, we have two R10s running, and two more in my closet (got them used on eBay) for future use. Never had a single problem with either my old Tivo (standalone), the old Hughes Directivo, or any of the R10s. I mean, they do break, but no problems in terms of recording, etc. I'd rather pay for stuff that works than get free stuff that doesn't, I guess (my HR20 was free, but I would have gladly paid if it was as reliable as a Tivo). Did anyone actually have to pay for the R15?


Yes, I paid for an R15. My DirecTivo died on me at the end of June. I initially called DTV, and they were going to send me a refurbished DVR for free (not including s&h), and I at first placed the order. But I later decided not to go for that deal -- they were telling me that it would take 5 business days to get here, and I was going out of town in a couple days. Also, I didn't like the idea of getting something refurbished. Call me a snob, but when it comes to technical stuff, I just don't like adopting other people's problems (these things can be quirky enough without having to use a product that didn't work right for someone else) - I just didn't feel comfortable with it, and neither did my wife (which was reason enough for me). Also, I had no idea which model I was going to get (whether it would be another Tivo, and if so, how old it would be, or if it would be an R15). And we were in the middle of the World Cup, and didn't want to be without a DVR for that long.

When I initially placed the order, I figured "I can live without a DVR for a week..." and then reality hit. I went to set up my VCR to record the upcoming World Cup games, and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to set up the VCR! I immediately called DTV back, cancelled the order, and went out to Circuit City to buy (lease) a new R15 for $100.

Since then I learned about the DVR4U2 promo from this site, and ordered a second one. Personally I'm very happy that I did that. I loved my TiVo, but to be honest, I like the R15 more. Yeah it's got some bugs, but they don't really bother me too much. I've never had a debilitating bug, although I do find the first run/repeat issue to be particularly annoying. Still, I like the functionality better than the tivo - I REALLY like how the DVR functionality is fully integrated with the TV functionality (e.g. being able to access my menus while watching a show that was recorded).


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

jpl said:


> I loved my TiVo, but to be honest, I like the R15 more.


I agree and a lot of what you said is exactly how I feel too.


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