# Your trust factor in R15's recording shows



## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Okay... I am having a mini-debate over at TCF

With 10B8/103F and 10C8/1044

What is your trust factor in the R15 recording your shows

5 - I have zero reservations about scheduling programs
4 - I have minor reservations, so I check my most important shows (or backup record on another reciever)
3 - Confident but not "that confident"
2 - I am more confident that it will miss one, that get them all
1 - No confidence at all


Also, as a replies to this thread...
At what point can we start to consider the unit reliable, and missed recordings are do to other factors... (Such as guide, weather, power, hardware level malfunctioning, ect.... basically the same criteria we use to explain why a TiVo powered units misses a recording)


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Also, as a replies to this thread...
> At what point can we start to consider the unit reliable, and missed recordings are do to other factors... (Such as guide, weather, power, hardware level malfunctioning, ect.... basically the same criteria we use to explain why a TiVo powered units misses a recording)


My criteria would be when it stops happening to me! :lol:

Seriously - I would need to wait for the new season of shows this fall. Till then, there just isn't enough I am recording to know how reliable it is.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

One of these days, I am going to setup the poll so we can see who votes for what. 

As I have to ask... If you have ZERO confidence in the unit.. as of today, with all the updates.... why are you still using it?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I give it a 5 I have rarely had things missed that I couldn't give an explanation to. I have the way too many episodes issue but that doesn't have anything to do with it recording what I tell it to.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I gave it a 4. For the most part it works fine as long as you know the "quirks". And to be honest, it does require more attention to detail than the other box, though not near as bad as 6 months ago. I do not have the latest update though.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I gave it a 4. I agree with wohlfie though, a new prime time season will tell a great deal more than a summer of reruns.

Carl


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## LockMD (Nov 16, 2005)

I gave it a 4, only cause there is room for improvements. Although, I am pretty happy with it, this fall will be the real test.


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> One of these days, I am going to setup the poll so we can see who votes for what.
> 
> As I have to ask... If you have ZERO confidence in the unit.. as of today, with all the updates.... why are you still using it?


Was this directed at me? I gave it a 4 in the poll.....sorry if my lame Monday morning attempt at humour implied otherwise.

I haven't had any missed shows since about March - but prior to that it missed 2 or 3 Losts.......as close to a television related disaster as possible in my world. I just need to reserve final judgement until I am back to a significant level of recording....all the box is doing for me now is the Daily Show and some home improvement type shows....nothing I even monitor that closely to notice if it misses one.

(Also - I think we may need to distinguish between reliability for SLs and one-off type recordings.....I Have NEVER had it miss a one-off type recording I set...only SL issues).


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

No, my guess would be it was directed at the person who voted "1".

Now that I've posted, I might as well add that I abstained in the vote, as I always do on polls that would require owning an R15 to honestly answer.


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

walters said:


> No, my guess would be it was directed at the person who voted "1".
> 
> Now that I've posted, I might as well add that I abstained in the vote, as I always do on polls that would require owning an R15 to honestly answer.


I gujess I should have figured that out....just jumped to a conclussion since it was the next post after mine....:icon_dumm :icon_dumm :icon_dumm


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

wohlfie said:


> I gujess I should have figured that out....just jumped to a conclussion since it was the next post after mine....:icon_dumm :icon_dumm :icon_dumm


It wasn't directed at you... Just about the same time you posted, someone had voted at a 1, but didn't care to comment on why they did.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> 5 - I have zero reservations about scheduling programs
> 4 - I have minor reservations, so I check my most important shows (or backup record on another reciever)
> 3 - Confident but not "that confident"
> 2 - I am more confident that it will miss one, that get them all
> ...


In my opinion, when everyone can vote 5. (And I'm not voting, as I don't currently have an r15.)

It seems to me that anything less than 5 is the same. 4=3=2=1=0. You either have confidence, or you don't. Do you trust the r15 to record "Lost" without having to check to make sure, or don't you? How about your wife's favorite show?

And I have to think that the end of the network TV season has probably made everyone feel more confident, simply because there aren't nearly as many programs being scheduled. Also, anyone who tries to use auto-records, or who has more than 30 or so SLs, will probably feel differently than someone with a lesser number of active SLs and no auto-records.

If I _was_ voting, I'd vote 1, simply to let the developers know (if they are reading here) that they simply must do better. Votes of 5 or 4 do nothing, IMHO, to further the cause of getting the best possible dvr that we can from D*.


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## HockeyKat (Jul 5, 2006)

I gave it a 4. While I've had VERY few problems with the R15 and I actually LIKE it, I still check the To Do List to make sure that something I care about won't get missed. Then again, I would check my DTivo to make sure it was recording an important show as well. Guess I'm just paranoid like that.  I think My R15 has missed a few recordings, but very few.


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## GlennCoco (May 15, 2006)

For the first month I had only one problem, but starting after then I started missing shows several times a week and I could never figure out why. I can't even remember what I voted though, probably a 2 or 3.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

ad301 said:


> In my opinion, when everyone can vote 5. (And I'm not voting, as I don't currently have an r15.)


Than your opinion is just that!



ad301 said:


> It seems to me that anything less than 5 is the same. 4=3=2=1=0. You either have confidence, or you don't. Do you trust the r15 to record "Lost" without having to check to make sure, or don't you? How about your wife's favorite show?


I still check (as most others do) my DTivo albeit, not as closely. Yes, I'm not 100% confident but as with any electronics, it's subject to failure.



ad301 said:


> And I have to think that the end of the network TV season has probably made everyone feel more confident, simply because there aren't nearly as many programs being scheduled. Also, anyone who tries to use auto-records, or who has more than 30 or so SLs, will probably feel differently than someone with a lesser number of active SLs and no auto-records.


I have 42 SL and have actually quite a few "summer series" set and it is not missing any of them.



ad301 said:


> If I _was_ voting, I'd vote 1, simply to let the developers know (if they are reading here) that they simply must do better. Votes of 5 or 4 do nothing, IMHO, to further the cause of getting the best possible dvr that we can from D*.


They already know, that's why they have improved and continue to update the software.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> As I have to ask... If you have ZERO confidence in the unit.. as of today, with all the updates.... why are you still using it?


I voted a one and am no longer using it being you asked. After my last R-15 meltdown where 75-80% of my SL's stopped working completly for no reason, I have zero confidence in the R-15 anymore and dont plan to use it until its solid and offers no limits like the R-10.

The R-15 is just unreliable and unpredictiable when compared to the R-10. There is no reason it should act so differently and record SL's one way with one person and another way with someone else. Something is obviously very wrong when the same SL for the same show records fine on one R-15 and not fine on another R-15.

When the day comes when you dont feel the need to check the TDL at least daily to make sure its working as it should like the R-10 and you can feel safe doing anything, clicking anything, changing and deleting anything without worrying the R-15 will lock up then I will have confidence.


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## rlambert7 (Feb 7, 2006)

I voted a "4", but only because I did have some problems when I first got my R15 in Feb. Lately, I don't think I've had any problems getting a show recorded, so I am really at about a "4.6" as far as getting shows recorded. It's more likely that you will get TOO MANY shows recorded rather than miss one. It's on USA, TNT, and Sci-Fi that I have the problem of too many shows. I use "manual record" for the shows on those channels. I do have a backup receiver that I use to record "The Young and the Restless" for my wife, but I haven't missed an episode on my R15 in months. (In fact, now, if there is a "news flash" interruption on CBS, I can get a "clean recording" from the SOAP network later in the day. I mainly use the backup receiver to record something that would be a time conflict with two other shows on my DVR.

Recording shows is one thing, watching them is another. A lot of complaints have to do with the user interface. Many of my complaints regarding the user interface have gone away over the months. I don't have the newest software release, yet, but I am encouraged my what I seen in the release notes.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> One of these days, I am going to setup the poll so we can see who votes for what.
> 
> As I have to ask... If you have ZERO confidence in the unit.. as of today, with all the updates.... why are you still using it?


2 year commitment? Eternal optimist?

Frankly, I find it amazing anyone can vote a 5.

Even if I had never had ANY problems and had received the upgrade, i would have to have some degree of lack of confidence given everything we have seen here.

(fyi - i was not a 1 vote)

Hopefully all is well( or at least better) But I will not trust the R15 until the fall season begins and we see very favorable reviews from those with a history of issues.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

But really it should be a 3.5. With 10B8 and > 25 SLs I had problems with the unit just plain freezing over night and not recording anything. < 20 SLs worked better. On 10C8 is't still early but it looks good. I'm bringing my SLs back up (at 21 now) to see if there are more problems. The only problem I'm noticing now is more of a PITA of the TDL being pegged at 99. This requires deleting TDL items in order to add more SLs or even a single record.


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## SamRoza (Jun 1, 2006)

I voted a '1'. After the first few weeks of using it and missing most of my recordings, I couldn't possibly have any faith in it recording reliably. Now, I don't use the R15 because of this, and most likely would have not received or barely received the software update by now, I felt that I was justified in voting.

Honestly, why do you and Clint feel the need to call people out who disagree with you on the R-15? This is the second instance of it since I joined. Coincidentally, both times I witnessed this, it was me getting called out, but whatever.

You know what people honestly think of this machine. You know why people feel that way. You've heard the stories, read all of the supporting(though anecdotal) evidence and stories of failures both hardware and software-related. Why do you constantly search high and low for proof otherwise and then act all shocked and dismayed when someone disagrees with you?

You don't need to worry about me weighing in on any of your precious polls anymore. Thankfully, the R15 is no longer a part of my DirecTV experience, and I no longer need to hang out here chasing down software glitches and bugs that closed-minded, small-thinking software developers built into this garbage platform-because I have my TiVo, and it doesn't screw up. Ever.


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## pentium101 (Nov 19, 2005)

Earl, I hope that you're not going to keep this poll open until 09-08-06 at 10:51 AM!

Your poll results are currently skewed due to the different OS versions that people are currently using or will be using between now and the poll closing date.

To get more consistent results you will need to have two polls started, one for the -300 people and one for the -500 people. You may also want to include the OS version number that the poll participants should be using before responding.

BTW, I've voted a 3 in this poll. I'm still not covinced that the R15 is where it should be in order to consider it a stable unit.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

SamRoza said:


> I voted a '1'. After the first few weeks of using it and missing most of my recordings, I couldn't possibly have any faith in it recording reliably. Now, I don't use the R15 because of this, and most likely would have not received or barely received the software update by now, I felt that I was justified in voting.
> 
> Honestly, why do you and Clint feel the need to call people out who disagree with you on the R-15? This is the second instance of it since I joined. Coincidentally, both times I witnessed this, it was me getting called out, but whatever.
> 
> ...


Proof of infallibility of Tivo exists, these are TOPICS clipped from TCF:

Frozen HD10-250

R10 went bad - now R15 - unsatisfatory

Change 'Other' channel for SP

SD-DVR40 "Failed While Preparing Data"

Season passes stopped recording

Defective DTV/Tivo Series 1 Peanut Remote

70 hours is really 37 hours???

Tivo thinks it's full but it's not!

SAMROZA, the point is, ALL DVR's have their quirks/problems/detractors. All work fine for most users. These forums attract a very narrow group of users, many with strong feelings.

Good luck to you.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

"Call People Out"

This is a discussion forum... and people are free to vote how ever they want.
I simply don't want people coming in who don't have an R15, who cuddle up at night with the TiVo remote, ect... massive skewing the results.

The polls are not perfect....

I simply ask as I would like to hear from the side from those people who are voting a 1, but are still using the unit.

As IZWIZ has pointed out... there are plenty of "stories" about the TiVo unit. 
There are stories about the UTV system.

The reason why the R15 stores seem to be louder, is primarily because those that have had some issues are very vocal... but the R15 doesn't have the "benefit" of the doub factor yet.... It still has a lot to prove. 

Between here and forums.directv.com , it is very obvious that you prefer the TiVo product... but regardless... Hence why it is a discussion forum


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The reason why the R15 stores seem to be louder, is primarily because those that have had some issues are very vocal..


I'd suggest an additional reason why the R15 stories seem to be louder:

Most of the early users of the R15 were previous users of Tivo. They were used to the Tivo interface, and objected to the R15 being different. These differences, coupled with the serious software bugs which were in the initial releases of the R15, left these users with a sour taste. Even though it seems that the most serious bugs have been fixed, the objection to "not being Tivo" remains.

Last weekend, I was visiting a friend who had Tivo (with cable). Since I've never had Tivo, I wanted to see how the Wishlist function worked (and why it was different than the Find-Autorecord function on the R15). My friend told me that he never used the wishlist on the Tivo because it would recorded stuff and fill his disk with stuff he didn't want.

Quite honestly, I found the Tivo interface confusing. To me, the R15 interface is much easier to use, and similar to the standard DTV interface I've been using for 8 years.


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## Thunder7 (Nov 16, 2005)

Overall, the R15 has worked pretty well for me. It hasn't missed anything, but sometimes gets a little too much for the shows that repeat themselves throughout the week. Overall, I have been happy with it...and likely will be getting a second one soon to replace my old UTV as it is dying a slow death (plus it is too small on HD space, and i just dont feel like putting a bigger drive in it only for it to die off in the near future anyway).


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## dan8379 (Feb 13, 2006)

I would have voted a 4 until last night. I came home at about 9:45 and checked to make sure that Hell's Kitchen was recording, and the record light wasn't on. I quickly turned on the unit and the TV and found the "The television needs to change the channel to record Hell's Kitchen at 9:00" message on. But instead of automatically changing the channel and recording like it was supposed to, it was just sitting there. It wasn't locked up, because I was able to click the "change channel" option and it started recording from there. Very frustrating.....


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> Proof of infallibility of Tivo exists, these are TOPICS clipped from TCF:
> 
> Frozen HD10-250
> 
> ...


If those are the best you can find, it truly does prove the _infallibility_ of TiVo


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> If those are the best you can find, it truly does prove the _infallibility_ of TiVo


Those are just from page 1 of the SD-DTivo forum at TCF... 
No digging required


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

SamRoza said:


> Honestly, why do you and Clint feel the need to call people out who disagree with you on the R-15?


Earl (great guy, knows a lot) but he has changed some recently if you ask me. All his posts now tend to crack on or take shots at the DirecTivo. Not sure why the recent change but I have never seen him so anti TiVo as he is now.

I guess being he does seem to have the only R-15 (cough) that has not had a single lockup in almost 8 months and has never (cough cough) missed recording a single show that his faith in the R-15 is vast.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

ISWIZ said:


> Proof of infallibility of Tivo exists, these are TOPICS clipped from TCF:


Most were newbie questions and easy to solve setup problems. Nothing like the problems with the R-15. Also coincidently, some of the topics were made by people joining the same day and also coincidently if you read this forum and TCF I would high question the credibility of some of the posts. (ie.. meaning fake people with multiple ID's). In fact one post I replied to I said "Hi Earl" to the user with another name as he just joined and the topic he started said the same thing about the DirecTivo as someone here was complaining about the R-15.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Maybe it's me .. but I think frozen units, failing while preparing data, not recording shows, defective remotes, prematurely full disks, and not recording shows because it thinks the disk is full are fairly serious issues.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Those are just from page 1 of the SD-DTivo forum at TCF...
> No digging required


OK, let's see now...



> Frozen HD10-250
> R10 went bad - now R15 - unsatisfatory


Well, yes, hard drives and other hardware fail, you know.



> Change 'Other' channel for SP


Yes, that's what happens when you have dual live buffers  and the TiVo wants to warn you before dumping the background one. Rather nice feature, I'd say.



> SD-DVR40 "Failed While Preparing Data"


Daily calls aren't required, anyway. You'd have to dig to see this cosmetic bug. Besides, he picked it up on eBay, so who knows what was done to that box? Some have reported fixing this problem by redoing setup (which should have been done anyway on a used box).



> Season passes stopped recording


First-and-only post, which is about a week old. Inconclusive at best.



> Defective DTV/Tivo Series 1 Peanut Remote


Yep, I got my replacement from Philips several years ago. I went back to using the "bad" one after my two-year-old destroyed another one.



> 70 hours is really 37 hours???
> Tivo thinks it's full but it's not!


Don't know what to say, here. Very likely a misunderstanding of how Keep Until I Delete works, how variable compression works, or possibly a hardware problem.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Hey, Earl. How about an analogous thread at TCF regarding trust of DTiVo?

I'd vote 5 even on the beta builds I've tested.


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## Bobman (Jan 3, 2006)

Upstream said:


> Maybe it's me ..


Did you READ the threads ?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

SamRoza said:


> I voted a '1'. After the first few weeks of using it and missing most of my recordings, I couldn't possibly have any faith in it recording reliably. Now, I don't use the R15 because of this, and most likely would have not received or barely received the software update by now, I felt that I was justified in voting.
> 
> Honestly, why do you and Clint feel the need to call people out who disagree with you on the R-15? This is the second instance of it since I joined. Coincidentally, both times I witnessed this, it was me getting called out, but whatever.
> 
> ...


When I "Call you out" as ou stated it has nothing to do with you liking or not liking the R15 to be honest it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you do or don't like it. I take issue when people clutter threads with bad mouthing statements that have nothing to do with the thrad other then to say they don't like something. That servers no purpose at at all and will not be tolerated. MANY people have said many bad things about the R15 and I have said more then a few times that it has screwed up. As has been shown to you Tivo has it's issues also and seeing as I own 3 of them it makes me mad and I have done my fair share of complaining about it also. I have also said many good thing about Tivo and Suggested it to friends as of now I have also started suggesting the R15 to friends as I think it's far more stable and is being improved all the time.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings here but I thought we where all adult eough to be able to be asked not to do something and not get our feelings hurt. Heck wolffpack has called me out and so have others when I am wrong and I admit it and I don't think badly of them.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Bobman...

I don't think I have changed that much.
I take "digs" at the DTivos only when the comparison is brought up between the R15 and "other" DVRs (in this particular thread ISWIZ pointed out the threads, and I just remarked those where from the first page of TCF)

The DTivos are fine units. And I feel the R15 is a fine unit.
I still have 3 DTivo active in my home...

I try to stay away from hard core DTivo bashing, but simply try to point out where it is not a "perfect" unit, where the TiVo lovers won't even give the R15 some credit for improving over the last 8 months...

But regardless... thanks for pointing out that some people have noticed that my comments have swayed a bit... I will try to bring them back up to a normal level.

Walters:
Not a chance would I put a thread up like that a TCF, as it would be a landslide...  
There is no doubt that the R15 still has a long way to go to prove itself, the TiVo already has....


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Bobman said:


> Did you READ the threads ?


Yes, I did.

In fact, based on the failed to record due to insufficient disk space threads, I would be more concerned with the failure to record on the Tivo than on the R15. The R15 failure to record problems seem to be caused by software bugs, which I would expect to be fixed. The Tivo failure to record seems to be caused by a design issue with how Tivo allocates disk space, which I would not expect to be changed.

In both cases, the unit fails to record a show which the user expects to be recorded. But at least with the R15 there is hope that the problem will be fixed (if it hasn't been fixed already).


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

That's not true. DTiVos aren't getting new features, but they would (if necessary) get fixes. Go and read Exhibit 10.0 of the 10-Q filed June 9, 2006.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

From the thread, it appears the Tivo issue isn't a bug which needs to be fixed, but part of the system design (what Microsoft calls It isn't a bug, it's a feature), so I don't know if it would be fixed.


Actually, I don't know if it is really a Tivo issue, or a user issue. Of course it doesn't matter, since someone expected a show to record, and it didn't.

My point wasn't so much that Tivo is bad. My point is that people have problems with Tivo, just like they have problems with any technology. Just because experienced Tivo users forgive those problems, or know how to work around them, doesn't mean the problems don't exist.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

It wouldn't matter. If there is a situation whereby it deletes when it's not full, TiVo would be obligated by that agreement to fix it.

BTW, even he thinks he's got a bad unit (as opposed to there being a software defect), since he's got experience with 5 other units that he's been using for years without incident. Maybe he's got a hard drive with significant amounts of bad sectors. It would appear to be an 80GB drive, so the system information would report "up to 70 hours", but when it comes time to actually allocate space, it skips the bad sectors. When it finds no good sectors, maybe it panics and deletes something to make room for the current recording.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Bobman said:


> Earl (great guy, knows a lot) but he has changed some recently if you ask me. All his posts now tend to crack on or take shots at the DirecTivo. Not sure why the recent change but I have never seen him so anti TiVo as he is now.
> 
> I guess being he does seem to have the only R-15 (cough) that has not had a single lockup in almost 8 months and has never (cough cough) missed recording a single show that his faith in the R-15 is vast.


Bobman, I have to give you credit. You're one of the few (maybe only) posters here who has spoken out, as a true-blue fan of the r15, on the current shortcomings of the unit. You have, of late, not minced words, and as a result, I respect your opinions greatly. When the r15 gets to the point where YOU say it's good and reliable, I will believe it.

The people who pretend that the problems don't exist, or who pop up in thread after thread simply to say "my r15 doesn't have _that_ problem" have much less credibility.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Bobman, I have to give you credit. You're one of the few (maybe only) posters here who has spoken out, as a true-blue fan of the r15, on the current shortcomings of the unit. You have, of late, not minced words, and as a result, I respect your opinions greatly. When the r15 gets to the point where YOU say it's good and reliable, I will believe it.
> 
> The people who pretend that the problems don't exist, or who pop up in thread after thread simply to say "my r15 doesn't have _that_ problem" have much less credibility.


Ok so we have less credibility because my box doesn't have issues? That makes perfect sense to me. Well no offense but I will keep my nicely working box for credibility in your eyes any day. Not everyone has the issues that many people here have, I for one only have one major issue and thats the one where it records every freakin episode of shows and it drives me nuts. My box has almost never missed a recording. It doesn't freeze up, I don't see audio skips as some do. Now why is this you may ask that I don't have these issues and others do? Well I wish I knew, I hve seriously wondered if some of these issues are related to some hardware change somewhere down the line. Can't prove this though, I just know I have an R15 from one of the first batches to ship back when it was finally released.

So before you say people pretend that things don't exist you should probably have something substanial to back up that accusation.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

I think you and Earl should send your boxes to DirecTV so they can see what's going right.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Just like the HDMI port issue doesn't exist (on the HR10-250), because it doesn't effect every box. So everyone who says they don't have the issue, must be lying and has no credibility

For what ever reason, I have very few issues accross all my DirecTV equipment. I don't know if it is because I am not by power lines, new home with fresh cable runs (dedicated ones of higher quality cable), all new fittings, ect... clean electric lines, ect...

But to say we don't have any credibility, because we simply can't recreate the problems that other users have... We don't call those users liers do we?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> I think you and Earl should send your boxes to DirecTV so they can see what's going right.


If they asked me for it and would give me an "owned" :lol: replacement I would be more then happy to send it to them. I have been in MANY beta programs for many products and I know some people had problems some didn't some had tons of problems some had none. I feel bad for those who have tons of issues especially those who have had 3-4 boxes die right away. I can only say if that happened to me I would probably be complaining just like everyone else. Anyone who has all these issues with their DVR would they be interested in selling one to me just to test it out. I can put it in my living room and see how things go.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Clint, we went through this previously, and you conspicuously refused, outright refused, to do any further testing on your box which might actually have been enlightening. Were there hardware changes made? Why does your box seemingly not exhibit problems which others do? I asked you, on multilple occasions, to perform some simple testing which might have been useful in diagnosing these issues. Perhaps the developers could have used such information. But you refused.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Take it out side.....
In PM land... 

:backtotop regarding "confidence" in the R15, not the users of this forum.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Earl Bonovich said:


> But to say we don't have any credibility, because we simply can't recreate the problems that other users have... We don't call those users liers do we?


I didn't specifically mean you, Earl, but I will ask you this: is it that you, and Clint, CAN'T recreate the problems, or WON'T? There's a big difference.

Early on, back in November, when I was doing some heavy testing, I pleaded for help in diagnosing certain problems I was seeing, and was refused that help by most of the regulars. I was actually acused of being unreasonable in the way I was using the box. I was told I was "torture-testing", and that my concerns were therefore not valid. More recently, I asked Clint to try a couple of simple tests on his golden box, but he refused. Oh well, it's your right to NOT test the r15 to it's limits, but it seems to me that every time you shoot down a complaint about a problem by saying "oh MY box doesn't do that", that you are, in a sense, calling that user a liar.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Clint, we went through this previously, and you conspicuously refused, outright refused, to do any further testing on your box which might actually have been enlightening. Were there hardware changes made? Why does your box seemingly not exhibit problems which others do? I asked you, on multilple occasions, to perform some simple testing which might have been useful in diagnosing these issues. Perhaps the developers could have used such information. But you refused.


If you are referring to adding Auto records from the seach function I would like to know when I refused. I have about 3-4 different sports teams added and I also have one for a single word search that I also use on my Tivo (though I don't let Tivo record them auto). Is there something else I am missing here. On and not that it matters but I have been in California working on a huge project almost non-stop for 6 months and only over the last couple did I have my Slingbox so that I could set things up remotely.

I have no issues testing things nor have I ever.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

I voted 3. Would have been more of a 4 but last night I was looking at the todo list for thrus and I again had 3 things showing that they would all record at 7pm and 8pm central time. And again the office strikes again. This time it wasn't listed more than once but it was on of the shows that thought the R15 magicly had 3 tuners. Without that and the normal Office issue that I have (where it will be on the list more than once for the same time period and won't let me delete one of them) I would have given it a 4 since it's not up to the same "reablity" of UTV or Tivo (which usally only miss things ever blue moon and that I don't feel I have to hover over ever minute)


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

walters said:


> I think you and Earl should send your boxes to DirecTV so they can see what's going right.


!Devil_lol


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I have a box in my spare bedroom that has been recording most of the items that people state here, don't record.

I actually do try and go to test some of the combination that people have posted here. I have gone and moved one of my R15 into my second highest usage area (my bedroom), so I can try to use it more like an average user, then a testing robot.

I can say I havn't "tourture-tested" the unit... but I do use my 2nd box as a guinie pig for most of the problems people do report here (at at forums.directv.com). 

I try not to shoot them down by saying "my box doesn't do that". Unless I specificially have tested it (see the latest release thread, I have tested the Audio bug (and reproduced it), and the Adult channel block out (and couldn't reproduce it)).

And I usually "don't" try to shoot down anyone complaining of an issue... As we have seen for 6 years with the TiVo boxes... some people have issues, others don't.... It is a state of electronics, and software, that not everyone is going to have the same issues (if any).

The only time I will "shoot" someone down, is when I know flat out or have EXTREMELY good reason to believe that they are falsifing their information for what ever reason. That hasn't happened very often, and I think there is only one user I would have put into that catagory since I came on here 8 months ago.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

That darn Office bug again for you....

I think the unit is trying to tell you something...


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> It is a state of electronics, and software, that not everyone is going to have the same issues (if any).


Any maker of complex systems should have a chaostician on staff...where's Ian Malcom when we need him?

ApK


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Just like the HDMI port issue doesn't exist (on the HR10-250), because it doesn't effect every box. So everyone who says they don't have the issue, must be lying and has no credibility
> 
> For what ever reason, I have very few issues accross all my DirecTV equipment. I don't know if it is because I am not by power lines, new home with fresh cable runs (dedicated ones of higher quality cable), all new fittings, ect... clean electric lines, ect...
> 
> But to say we don't have any credibility, because we simply can't recreate the problems that other users have... We don't call those users liers do we?


Ok, everyone, deep breath. Count to 10.

Ok, now that that's over.....

Earl, you know as well as I that HDMI issues with the HR10 were in the beginning (ie years ago) and were a hardware problem (bad daughter board). I have gotten two HR10s since December both using HDMI, no problems. Are you suggesting that HDMI is an ongoing problem with HR10s?

If you are not, then I would guess this post I quoted is a prime example of of exactly what ad301 is claiming.

You mentioned an old problem with HD Tivos as a response to why someone doesn't rely on the R15.

Earl and Clint, no one stated you have no credibility here. They simply stated when anyone new to the forum reads your never ending support of the R15 and...dare I say...bashing of DTivos, they will probably come away with the conclusion that you may be less of a credible source of impartial information than others regarding the R15. And I would agree. Some of the arguments in this thread alone are at best juvenile.

Let the R15 stand on it's own merit. Everytime someone defends the R15 by bashing a Tivo I have less respect for their opinion. That's just the truth...or at least my truth.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

Sorry to be late to the dance, been buried in PC/Network issues today. I did not mean to create a firestorm, just trying for some balance in not the 2 units, but looking how the forums reflect more "problems" threads (real or user) than "my Microsoft DVR is working perfectly" threads. 
I too have had my share of problems and bounced the R15 off my living room to the back room, I've recently changed it back. I for one see a lot of improvement but the biggest frustration is while I don't see many issues the way I use it, I know there are others that have REAL issues. I think sometimes that in 6+ months there are too many variables for us too fully understand why X can record FR of Y show without fail but Z can't. We all speculate, some with more knowledge and some with less about why but I still have not heard a solid plausible reason. I did not mean to question any one's problem, just trying to point out once again that there are lots of DVR out there made by all that are used daily and never post to this or any other of the forums. They may have problems, they may not care, they may not use the web. I love my DTivo, that's why I reworked the drive when it died, I like the R15 in that it cost me about $200 less than the DTivo and it's getting upgrades. I try not to have a bias one way or the other but also hate reading the B*** Busting posts that appear to be folks that whined about the R15 talk on TCF then come over here to snipe. 
Something about "cake and eat it too" keeps playing in my mind.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

I know the HDMI issue has been resolved in some of the newer builds of the HR10-250.... but why I brought that one up, is that there are a lot of people that never had that issue, and just posted that they didnt' have the problem.... 

It was in response to "credibility" of those posting they don't have problem, nothing to do with the reliability of the R15
(FYI, my HR10-250 does have the HDMI problem, so i just use component)

Anytime that I have used "TiVo" bashing tequniques, I either haven't worded it correctly or what... but my attempts are more towards the opinions of the users and that "TiVo" has the benefit of the doubt, and the R15 is still trying to earn that respect.

So in general, I am just going to try an avoid them for a while... as the last few haven't gone the way I have intended them to.

Again: The TiVo units are fine machines... the R15 is just stuck in a dark hole and still trying to work it's way out .


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Many folks never ran into the HDMI problems as they never used that port. But yes, it was a problem that was solved.

The point of my post wasn't to discourage any input, just to highlight some patterns I've seen lately.

I'm well known as being critical of the R15, yet when I see improvements I acknowledge them. I try not comparing the R15 with Tivo yet at times do just as a feature reference.

I'm not sure who is "more credible or less credible" here and honestly, I really don't care.

Being here for a while I know the major players pretty good and know their individual takes on the R15. (Although Bobman always surprises me....:lol: )

I think new members here can get wrong/bad impressions by just reading a few threads, which is true everywhere. Discussions such as these help level the playing field as far as I'm concerned.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Earl and Clint, no one stated you have no credibility here. They simply stated when anyone new to the forum reads your never ending support of the R15 and...dare I say...bashing of DTivos, they will probably come away with the conclusion that you may be less of a credible source of impartial information than others regarding the R15. And I would agree. Some of the arguments in this thread alone are at best juvenile.


I don't bash Tivo, heck I have three of them. I have stated that people seem to think there are no issues with them which is just not correct. I as many other have had issues. If any of you have mistaken me saying that they are not perfect for a bash I am sorry and maybe I should look at what I have said. As for DirecTiVo I would never state anything about them as I have never owned one which is one reason I keep my comments out of the HD version discussion.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Okay...

Let's pull this thread out of "off topic land"

:backtotop


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Dude, you started this thread because of a debate you were having at TCF regarding reliability of R15 versus DTiVo. Like it or not, that *is* the topic (which I suppose made the thread offtopic for the forum from the get-go).


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Dude, you started this thread because of a debate you were having at TCF regarding reliability of R15 versus DTiVo. Like it or not, that *is* the topic (which I suppose made the thread offtopic for the forum from the get-go).


No I think he is referring more to the talk about mine and his credibility because of our lack of issues.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Oh, fair enough (if that's the case).

BTW, when are we going to post the results of the poll to that TCF thread?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Oh, fair enough (if that's the case).
> 
> BTW, when are we going to post the results of the poll to that TCF thread?


I think you should give it till like Sunday or so, that way the maximum amount of people should have voted. Then take the results and close this thread.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I doubt that posting the results of this poll to the TCF forums is going to change anyones perspective. I personally have had two occasions to actually use an R15 as I know two people who have had an R15. One of them was even a new user to DVRs and both of them once they saw my HR10-250 returned the R15 to get a DirecTIVO DVR. For me personally, the issue is reliability. If I know a unit is going to record programming 100% reliably then I'm going to be happy with it. I want to know that I can set up at least 100 season passes (or series links if you will) and know that it will not miss unless there is some good reason to miss (guide data is wrong, stupid president speaks overtime about issues I could care less about and interrupts my favorite programming or what not). TIVO has been that reliable in what it records for me. My second biggest concern is reliability of only recording "first run" episodes. My third biggest concern is that I can reliably fast forward over commercial advertising. If the unit misses any one of these things for no good apparent reason than I'm going to take a coniption fit and throw it out the window and probably quit whatever company that is hosting the unit. It's as simple as that. At this point, I'm glad they finally announced the TIVO series 3 as I will be switching to cable TV again soon.

Anyway I hope the insight into the psyche of people like me was helpful to your thread.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> I doubt that posting the results of this poll to the TCF forums is going to change anyones perspective. I personally have had two occasions to actually use an R15 as I know two people who have had an R15. One of them was even a new user to DVRs and both of them once they saw my HR10-250 returned the R15 to get a DirecTIVO DVR. For me personally, the issue is reliability. If I know a unit is going to record programming 100% reliably then I'm going to be happy with it. I want to know that I can set up at least 100 season passes (or series links if you will) and know that it will not miss unless there is some good reason to miss (guide data is wrong, stupid president speaks overtime about issues I could care less about and interrupts my favorite programming or what not). TIVO has been that reliable in what it records for me. My second biggest concern is reliability of only recording "first run" episodes. My third biggest concern is that I can reliably fast forward over commercial advertising. If the unit misses any one of these things for no good apparent reason than I'm going to take a coniption fit and throw it out the window and probably quit whatever company that is hosting the unit. It's as simple as that. At this point, I'm glad they finally announced the TIVO series 3 as I will be switching to cable TV again soon.
> 
> Anyway I hope the insight into the psyche of people like me was helpful to your thread.


I have not missed any shows I couldn't figure out why (even thought the history on the R15 is very poor to say the least), your second point also annoys me very much I hate having to go and clean up stuff that didn't want it to record in the first place. Have you had issues with the R15 FF over commercials? If so what issue? I have been using the 30 Sec Slip and it works quite well though to be honest i wish it was a little faster then it is.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

walters said:


> Dude, you started this thread because of a debate you were having at TCF regarding reliability of R15 versus DTiVo. Like it or not, that *is* the topic (which I suppose made the thread offtopic for the forum from the get-go).


Yes, I got the idea from the argument I was having over there.
And I relized, that the questioned hasn't been asked for a while over here.

So I wasn't trying to "compare" people "reliability" factor between the two units, as it wouldn't be a contest.. (both from a percentage wise, nor a pure number wise)

I seriously wanted to know if people have a growing confidence in the R15 to 
record the programs it wants to... As my contention over at TCF, was that since I have seen less and less posts about it missing recordings, that things where getting better.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

No I have not seen any issues with FF - I was just listing that as one of my top three criteria for a DVR, generically. I could never get used to the 30 second skip - even with my TIVOs. So, I just got used to the FF instead.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> That darn Office bug again for you....
> 
> I think the unit is trying to tell you something...


:lol: What you don't like the office?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> I have not missed any shows I couldn't figure out why (even thought the history on the R15 is very poor to say the least),


I have...prior to 10C8. The unit would hang overnight for no reason and anything scheduled overnight would not record.

If we REALLY want to get into a "I've never had that problem....I have had that problem argument" (which I don't think we do) then so be it.


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I have probably 75 season passes set up on my TIVO - how would the R15 handle that many series links at this point? Would it record everything it is supposed to under that scenario? How about for 100? I understand that it might record more than it is supposed to, especially if most of the series links are set up as "first run" only. How long do you think before DirecTV/NDS gets "first run" only working exactly right? Also, will the R15 ever get wishlist items which is basically the ability to search for for programming based on title or keyword or actor or director, etc and also tell it to automatically record if it finds it?


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

BillyT2002 said:


> I have probably 75 season passes set up on my TIVO - how would the R15 handle that many series links at this point?


100% failure for the bottom 25. But I bet you already knew that. (Edit: hmm, maybe not after reading your edit)


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I have 72 and (knocking on wooden desk) it is working fine. I DO NOT have the most recent update yet so milage may vary.


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

ISWIZ said:


> I have 72 and (knocking on wooden desk) it is working fine. I DO NOT have the most recent update yet so milage may vary.


Excuse me? Did they remove the limit of 50 and I missed it?


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

BillyT2002 said:


> I have probably 75 season passes set up on my TIVO - how would the R15 handle that many series links at this point? Would it record everything it is supposed to under that scenario? How about for 100? I understand that it might record more than it is supposed to, especially if most of the series links are set up as "first run" only. How long do you think before DirecTV/NDS gets "first run" only working exactly right? Also, will the R15 ever get wishlist items which is basically the ability to search for for programming based on title or keyword or actor or director, etc and also tell it to automatically record if it finds it?


I honestly believe the true problem lies in the To Do List. The a limit of 100 items (with only 18 SLs I'm pegged at 99 TDL items) and the logic processing those items. There seems to be some type of logic gap in how SLs & the TDL is processed.

No offence to those across the pond but if these limits exist in NDS products, and if that's why they exist here, shouldn't someone have compared the availability of channels and how our two countries watch TV before accepting a design that didn't work all that well there? I've never watched UK TV but from the little I know you can watch various methods of making cheese on BBC1, BBC2 and BBC3. Do they really record every rerun of Seinfeld, King of the Hill, South Park, Family Guy and uncounted shows on FoodTV, History Channel and Discovery Channel? That right there will fill your TDL only a couple of days out.

The TDL I mentioned above only covers through Friday the 14th.....3 days. Strange that my two local news SLs are covered for the next 14 days, but everything else is only out 3 days.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Just like the HDMI port issue doesn't exist (on the HR10-250), because it doesn't effect every box. So everyone who says they don't have the issue, must be lying and has no credibility
> 
> For what ever reason, I have very few issues accross all my DirecTV equipment. I don't know if it is because I am not by power lines, new home with fresh cable runs (dedicated ones of higher quality cable), all new fittings, ect... clean electric lines, ect...
> 
> But to say we don't have any credibility, because we simply can't recreate the problems that other users have... We don't call those users liers do we?


I think "credibility" is the wrong word.

Earl, Clint and whoever else, don't necessarily lack credibility because their boxes have worked almost perfectly. But they do lack a certain perspective, for lack of a better word.

WHen Earl, (or anyone -this isn't about Earl, but it is easy to type) has almost no issues and gives advice/opinions about the stability/reliability of hte box, with out regard to the dozens of issues had bu dozens of posters it comes off quite slanted as pro- R15.

If I bought a gas grill model which blew up 10% of the time, but I personally had no problems with it, I certainly wouldn't advise others to get it, in hopes they are as fortunate as I am.

Earl-et al. might have positive personal experiences, but they KNOW the machines faults.

I assume Earl has had at least one thorough discussion about the depth and scope of the R15 issue with his contact, and knows much more than he can say.

As I said before, anyonme with a thorough knowledge of the issues of this machine can't possibly have total confidence in it yet. They might have confidence in their one unit, but can they really have complete confidence in this product when it has yet to deliver what's advertised on the box, or standard performance for a DVR at a minimum?

SHould I get an R15? THe proper response should not be ."some like it some don't try for your self, but by the way the rR15 is thee future and the R15 is continuously being improved. SOme people just have trouble getting use to it"

A non-biased opinion (in my biased opinion) should state the basic functional differences and 2 caveats. 1) DTivos are pretty much done with upgrades and the R15 has had numerous issues with regards to fuctionality and reliability. Not all machines have issues but those that do are frequently very displeased.

Too often, the response is Try the R15. you might like it. 
Too often a response to an issue with the R15 is "yeah, well DTivo's have problems too!" That's not support and it's not unbiased.

until last week we had NO verifiable fixes in 7+months, for a machine that is supposeed to replace the DTivos. And

Yet it doesn't work yet....not completely, not as designed, intended, or advertised.

That's a simple sentence that should be listed on any "R15 -should I get one?" post.

Better? Sure. Will it get fixed? Probably?

Sugar- coating based on your own experience, when you know that many more have had major issues appears biased and moderators shouldn't appear biased


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Why do I have to have a 4 letter name... 

I don't think I have ever discounted anyone's account of an issue with the unit. If say you have one, I take them at their word... and try to poke and prod to find what maybe the cause is.... that is the software developer in me. (I have often argued the difference between bugs and differences in functionality though)

I have seen too many cases (just with my own code that I right). Works, here, there, everywhere..... execpt on this one system.... So I would never downplay or say someone wasn't truely having a problem... just because my systems haven't had a problem. 

All I hope and pray is that someday, I get to revealt to you all whom I have been talking too, and what some of those conversations have been like.
The #'s would surprise a lot of people....

Either way... regardless, you are correct.... things should be unbiased.
But at what point does it go from:
"The" R15 software has a problem -to- "Your" R15 seems to have a problem


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I have...prior to 10C8. The unit would hang overnight for no reason and anything scheduled overnight would not record.
> 
> If we REALLY want to get into a "I've never had that problem....I have had that problem argument" (which I don't think we do) then so be it.


Just because I was able to figure out why it happened doesn't excuse that it happened. Well to be honest i know what happened I am not sure why it happened. To be honest it was on Smallville 2 times which is also a show I seemed to have issues with on my Tivos also. Maybe i'm just not supposed to watch it?


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

This is very serious to anyone out there that is having allot of problems with their R15 (outside of bad HD problems and the like). Would any of you be willing to pat with one of these boxes? I would be willing to buy one of them and beat them up to no end (rather not go new because of the lease garbage). I think in getting one that is already having many of these issues I can also see if maybe it has something to do with channels, dish, wiring, any other weird stuff we can all think of. 

With my current box I may very well be just lucky that it works like it's supposed to.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint Lamor said:


> With my current box I may very well be just lucky that it works like it's supposed to.


While I'm sure there are hardware/box problems, I believe the majority of the problems being discussed are due to the particular usage of the unit.

Add SLs foe Seinfeld, The Daily Show, Modern Marvels, South Park, Good Eats, Unwrapped, Paula's Home Cooking, Reno 911 and a couple of local new casts. See if you start running into problems.

Now, I need to include the same disclaimer as before, since 10C8 I'm not running into the same problems....other than a full TDL. But I'll bet you will run into problems under 10B8 if you add these types of SLs.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> While I'm sure there are hardware/box problems, I believe the majority of the problems being discussed are due to the particular usage of the unit.
> 
> Add SLs foe Seinfeld, The Daily Show, Modern Marvels, South Park, Good Eats, Unwrapped, Paula's Home Cooking, Reno 911 and a couple of local new casts. See if you start running into problems.
> 
> Now, I need to include the same disclaimer as before, since 10C8 I'm not running into the same problems....other than a full TDL. But I'll bet you will run into problems under 10B8 if you add these types of SLs.


Ok NOT saying I won't test  but I really don't like The Daily Show or Reno 911, but I have had them for Modern Marvels, South Park, Good Eats, Paula's Home Cooking, Unwrapped since the night that I first installed the DVR. They are all shows I love along with about 26 or 27 more right now. I add and remove SL's quite often as some shows I get sick of watching. I had Wings (old sitcom) for a while then took it off and added another in it's place.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Clint, I want to make sure I understand. You have 26 or 27 SLs currently and you're running 10B8 and you haven't had any problems? What's your current TDL level? Bud you may just have the golden R15 if this is true.

And how can't you like the only true news show.....TDS?

Wait, I didn't see Seinfeld. Maybe that's the key. Add that and you will be doomed.


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## ISWIZ (Nov 18, 2005)

I read an post about doing a little change at a time. It rang a bell in that the only time I see problems is if I try to make more than a few changes or move quickly around in the menus. 

I misspoke earlier when I said I had 72 SL, it is 37 (the 72 was the TDL, actually 75, apologies to all). 

I have TDS, daily national and local news, Rescue Me, Real World/RR Chal., Fear Factor, Nightmares/Dreamscapes, Last Comic, Big Brother, Brotherhood, Weeds, Lucky Louie and Entourage as well as a few others and many movie requests. The only one that I have trouble with is Weeds and I think it is "guide" related as it keeps trying to record old shows. It all works fine UNLESS I start moving priorities around a lot so I've taken to moving only one or two at a time. 
While I think even that should work without fault I can live with it within those limitations as long as it records what I ask. 

To me the biggest problem is not Earl (or my) bias one way or another, it is the lack of communication from DTV to us, their paying customers that chose to communicate through some poor low paid CSR or hide behind anonymity on this board or their own. Heaven knows I get plenty of communication from them for other things, why can't they just be forward thinking for once and tell us where we are headed? (Sounds like the Government) 

Anyway, my box is not golden, it's silver and works fine within the limits I've seen, we all have different ideas of what those limits are so we will never all agree. Let's just try to all be polite and question the problem not the poster.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> I honestly believe the true problem lies in the To Do List. The a limit of 100 items (with only 18 SLs I'm pegged at 99 TDL items) and the logic processing those items. There seems to be some type of logic gap in how SLs & the TDL is processed.


I've said that too. With the Todo list capped it probably has to constantly look for changes and constantly say "hey I can't put that in the todo list now but I will have to later". With any other DVR it goes out and grabs the shows puts them in the todo list and then when the next cycle comes it only has to make minor changes. With the R15 having to make alot of changes and trying to keep the todo list under 100 I think the processor must be running like mad and that's on of the ways it locks up. Same thing with Setting up or changing SL's. Every time you move a SL around or set on up it is then trying to make changes to the limited 100 todo list. Which increase the chances of it freezing or locking up the unit. I'm pretty sure that if they just took the limit off the todo list that there would be less issues with the unit locking up when setting up/moving/deleting SL's. I'm not saying this would stop all lockups but I think it would take care of alot of them.


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## mikewolf13 (Jan 31, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> Why do I have to have a 4 letter name...
> 
> All I hope and pray is that someday, I get to revealt to you all whom I have been talking too, and what some of those conversations have been like.
> The #'s would surprise a lot of people....
> ...


Noone wants to see a MikeWolf13 Support forum...I have MANY MANY bugs.....

BY #s, I am guessing you are talking about % of machines/ Custoemrs with issues? (if not, please correct me)

I would expect that number to be very small. I gotta believe issues are the exception and not the rule, or D* would be in VERY big trouble. I expect many people not to even know they are having issues, and many more just to live with it. Plus I don't know that I would trust how your source would "spin" the numbers. I mean we have been told by CC that it was completely debugged 2 months ago. So, as much as an informed source is wonderful, one must consider the source's employer.

Any chance of a chat, or that we could submit questions which could be coimpiled and he could anonymously answer yet with some (of course not too much) substance?


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mikewolf13 said:


> BY #s, I am guessing you are talking about % of machines/ Custoemrs with issues? (if not, please correct me)


I plead the 5th... 



mikewolf13 said:


> Any chance of a chat, or that we could submit questions which could be coimpiled and he could anonymously answer yet with some (of course not too
> much) substance?


I will ask my contact about this, it is a good idea... I'll let you know.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

Wolffpack said:


> Clint, I want to make sure I understand. You have 26 or 27 SLs currently and you're running 10B8 and you haven't had any problems? What's your current TDL level? Bud you may just have the golden R15 if this is true.
> 
> And how can't you like the only true news show.....TDS?
> 
> Wait, I didn't see Seinfeld. Maybe that's the key. Add that and you will be doomed.


My scheduler screen currently says

To Do List: 78 Items
History: 50 Items
Purchases: 0 Items
Prioritizer: 25 Items

I forgot that I deleted That 70's Show the other day. :lol: You will probably think I am even more odd because I dispise Seinfeld and always have. As for TDL I dunno it just tends to get on my nerves, I have tried wtching it but just can't. Oh and btw I should mention that some of the shows I have in there don't come out with new episodes all the times and these also seem to be the ones I don't have issues with. Any sussestions on some other shows I may enjoy that might cause me some issues?


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I will ask my contact about this, it is a good idea... I'll let you know.


That would be great. Then have a better overall look. Right now all we have is "it's beening fix in this update" or "who knows". I would be great if we could even get a "this will be fixed in an update". _*crossing finger*_


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Clint Lamor said:


> Ok so we have less credibility because my box doesn't have issues?


I apologize for not responding sooner, as I was unexpectedly away from web access soon after my last message posted. I just finished catching up on this thread. Frankly, I was feeling bad about my last couple of posts, as I was meaning to compliment Bobman more than anything, but I did go too far. And I think you and Earl have handled this thread with restraint and class, which is not easy to do when you feel you are being attacked or criticized. Kudos to you both for that.

The point I was clumsily trying to make, which others have since expanded on, is that when improvements are made, it means more, to me at least, to hear about it from people who have been more critical. Heck, I've been very critical of the lack of wishlist type search functionality. If I were to get an update on my r15 (if I still had an r15) which addressed those issues, and I came on here to applaud the developers for making those improvements, I would hope that those who had read my prior messages of a critical nature would use that context to evaluate my report. If the same report came from someone who had previously praised the current search implementation as relatively problem-free, it would have less impact for me.


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

Clint Lamor said:


> If you are referring to adding Auto records from the seach function I would like to know when I refused. I have about 3-4 different sports teams added and I also have one for a single word search that I also use on my Tivo (though I don't let Tivo record them auto). Is there something else I am missing here. On and not that it matters but I have been in California working on a huge project almost non-stop for 6 months and only over the last couple did I have my Slingbox so that I could set things up remotely.
> 
> I have no issues testing things nor have I ever.


Ok, just to clarify, here is the last I had heard from you about testing some auto-records on your box: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=585419&postcount=71 and the post two after that one. If you've been running more auto-records than one, and they produce hits which record properly without problems, then it would really be a good exercise to try to figure out why.

Perhaps the most confounding thing about the r15, as has been noted many times, is the inconsistent results people report. In theory, two r15s set up at the same location, with the same SLs, ARs, and manual records, should record exactly the same programs, with no differences whatsoever. Has anyone ever tried that one? (I tried it early on with an r15 and an r10, but that's a different OT subject, and I have no wish to re-open that can of worms.)


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

ad301 said:


> Ok, just to clarify, here is the last I had heard from you about testing some auto-records on your box: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=585419&postcount=71 and the post two after that one. If you've been running more auto-records than one, and they produce hits which record properly without problems, then it would really be a good exercise to try to figure out why.
> 
> Perhaps the most confounding thing about the r15, as has been noted many times, is the inconsistent results people report. In theory, two r15s set up at the same location, with the same SLs, ARs, and manual records, should record exactly the same programs, with no differences whatsoever. Has anyone ever tried that one? (I tried it early on with an r15 and an r10, but that's a different OT subject, and I have no wish to re-open that can of worms.)


I ended up adding some more the next time I was home. Right now 3 of them won't get any hits because it's not that time of the season. I have a couple other things I can think of that I will add tonight and see if they get anything.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

Ad301, are your still on 10B8? If so, give me some examples to try on 10C8. I've tested very little on the autorecord level.

I've been loading up SLs and such on 10C8 and it's working pretty dagone well. As soon as everyone gets this release we may just have a unit that is....dare I say it....dare....dare.....acceptable.

Sure we still have problems with limits, but 10C8 seems pretty darn good to me. Compare to Tivo reliability, so far I'd give it 80%.

As always I reserve the right to retract anything I say here. !devil12:


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## cybok0 (Jan 5, 2006)

Now granted I only have 15 sl on my R15 and trust my DTIVO more than my R15 (I voted 4) I never had a problem with my R15 I use the find by all the time,but I never move anything in my prioritizer.

The only thing I don't like is that it recordes every episode of american chopper and south park. but I just delete them.

The only thing that ever happened was my screen froze during a severe thunderstorm but I blame the storm and not the R15.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

I went with a 5. It's still got a lot of problems, and I'm not giving it a 5 as for stability. The question is to recording programs as scheduled, and I haven't missed a scheduled recording (that I noticed  ). In fact, I get more than I schedule (first run/repeat)!


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

Hi All, this my first post (2nd try - I'm not authorized to put hyperlinks in my posts) 

I'm looking for suggestions ???

I posted the following on PVRblog com on 27 May 06:


I have a been messing with TIVO, Adelphia and now the R15 (with DirecTV). I've figured out season pass (hit record 2x) and 30 sec fast forward (->|). Have 3 things on my wish list, 1) weaknees upgrades (I need more storage) 2) USB or ethernet connection (I want to save some stuff) 3) A guide list that shows the next programs on a channel in a vertical list (ie 5 or 6 lines worth (like Tivo and Adelphia do)). 

Thnx Bob

Now I post the following, which I also posted in weakness Blog (www wkblog com/2005/12/the_weaknees_r10_r15_compariso html) and PVR Blog (www pvrblog com/pvr/2005/12/weaknees_offers.html#comment-17826054). Yes, I really want to fix my R15!!

13 July 06 - I'm ready to chuck my R15 in the trash. I bought a TIVO series 2 that I'm running in parallel, but the R15 is crashing so much, that I can't even use my R15 as a tuner! I'm loosing it !! 

I really identify with TheTooleMan, article dated June 29, 2006 12:22 PM (in www wkblog com, same as above). 

I've listed (in some of his words) highlights that ring true to me. I need to check out DBSTalk com (as he did). Wow, ok I'm here in DBSTalk com. I just read the Direct TV DVR Plus, Model R15 FAQ you posted ... good stuff, but not enough to make me happy yet (believe me, I'll try to make this work!!) I'm interested to know if my reliability will improve enough that I should risk loosing what I've recorded.

I wanted to share my misery with you...(very good TooleMan!)

The R15 has problems which are now making the system progressively more unusable. Pulling the plug (or hitting reset on the top right corner) cured these problems for a while, but these working intervals became shorter and shorter. It finally locked up so I couldn't change channels or play back recordings, and would also stop recording in the middle of a program. Hey, it's so bad I don't count on it to record anything !!

From TooleMan's comments, I'm afraid that DirecTV's help desk will be useless. So, I tried to get DirecTV to answer my questions in writing. They only want me to call. So much for that... I read the R15 FAQ (stated above - but it doesn't talk about reliabilty improvedments after hard reset).

TooleMan wrote "While waiting (for a replacement R15), he tried the dreaded "Reset All." That cured most of the problems, but also wiped my hard drive clean of all recordings and destroyed all my settings and series links. When the new unit arrived, I refused it."

TooleMan, what is your status now? I'm not ready to loose everything I've recorded ... and don't have the storage or patience to transfer it all to TIVO ... what am I going to do??

Anyway, my R15 locks up all the time, as I said above, it's so bad that I can't even use it as a tuner. I reboot it two or three times a day. I don't have anything scheduled to record any more, as I'm trying to improve it's reliability. Will this work ??

Why am I sticking with DirecTV? I've recorded a bunch of stuff I want to watch. Frankly, I wish I could say, "if the R15 isn't fixed by the time my trial subscription expires on 23 July (and the rates go up) I'm out of here". 

My alternative seems to be, pay $12/month, so that TIVO can take care of me or go swith to cable. I've not seen that I can upgrade the Cable DVR machines, and I really want 100 plus hours.

TooleMan ... what are you going to do ?? Did the reset all make you happy enough or are you out of here !?!?!

P.S. I voted 1, because you didn't have a Zero.

Hopeless - Bob_in_MB_CA


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

I would argue about option #4 on the poll which states '4 - I have minor reservations, so I check my most important shows (or backup record on another reciever)' If you are not trusting the R15 to record your programming reliably, then those are not minor reservation. I thijnk there should have been only two options 'I trust it.' and 'I don't trust it' because the way I'm viewing the results right now options 1-4 should be summed together against option 5 in order to get the real results.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

BillyT --

I agree that you either trust the machine, or you don't trust it. But my interpretation of the question would combine "zero reservations" and "minor reservations" into the trust category.

As an analogy, I trust my car to get me from point A to point B. But that doesn't mean I have zero reservations. Before an important trip, I still check the oil, trans fluid, tires, etc.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

bob_mb_ca said:


> ... Wow, ok I'm here in DBSTalk com. I just read the Direct TV DVR Plus, Model R15 FAQ you posted ... good stuff, but not enough to make me happy yet (believe me, I'll try to make this work!!) I'm interested to know if my reliability will improve enough that I should risk loosing what I've recorded.
> ...
> The R15 has problems which are now making the system progressively more unusable.
> ...
> ...


Hi Bob, and welcome to the forum. The general consensus on the R15 is that there are some operations that will definately make it unstable and unreliable. A combination of having a high quantity of series links, using the Find function and/or autorecord (after a find), and doing a lot of re-organizing in the prioritizer, especially with a lot of series links, all seem to have a somewhat direct correlation with unit lockups and problems.

The R15 appears to be a satisfactory unit for the light to perhaps medium user, but certainly stops short of satisfying a heavy duty user and especially one with a tivo background, such as yourself.

Once the R15 starts to exhibit the problems you are seeing, it is rare to get past them without doing the reset-all and wiping the hard drive. I doubt that you will get any success short of doing a reset-all. Even after that, based on your experiences so far, it is not likely that the unit will serve your purposes (again based on your experience to date, which suggest your usage patterns).

There is a new software upgrade on the very initial stages of being rolled out. There is not yet enough experience with it to determine if it will significantly improve the stability of the R15, especially when put through it's paces with the operations I described above.

So my best suggestion for you would be to bite the bullet, do the reset-all, get the latest software, then give it one more try moving forward. It may or may not work for you.

Good luck. While I am overall pretty happy with the R15, I have had a couple of hickups and have had to do one reset-all (erasing about 50 hours of movies I had not watched), so do appreciate the frustration someone experiences when they have to do that.

Carl


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## walters (Nov 18, 2005)

Upstream said:


> BillyT --
> 
> I agree that you either trust the machine, or you don't trust it. But my interpretation of the question would combine "zero reservations" and "minor reservations" into the trust category.
> 
> As an analogy, I trust my car to get me from point A to point B. But that doesn't mean I have zero reservations. Before an important trip, I still check the oil, trans fluid, tires, etc.


I, too, have a bit of a problem with #4. It really matters _why_ you check the To Do List.

I personally check the To Do List on my TiVo from time to time, but it's not because I don't trust the TiVo. It's because networks sometimes play tricks. It's because sometimes I don't get the priorities quite right. It's because there are others in the house (particularly a four-year-old who uses it as if he developed the software). etc.

Also I check it because I implicitly trust TiVo after six years of experience that "To Do" is exactly what it means (not "might do") and that recording history (a bit of a misnomer for future events, of course) will tell me _exactly_ why not (e.g. "a four-year-old in your household cancelled this recording to schedule yet another episode of Max and Ruby". OK, maybe not that detailed ).

In your analogy, you're checking things that are consumable. So you might check to make sure you have enough disk space so you won't lose something you want to watch. But it's not like you check to make sure your key still works in the lock or your seat will still stay upright while you drive.


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## Upstream (Jul 4, 2006)

Walters -- If I felt the need to "check to make sure your key still works in the lock or your seat will still stay upright while you drive", I would not select (4) minor reservations.

But that's my interpretation.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

Option #4 was setup up in the spirt of:
I trust it, but I will check occasionally to make sure it is doing what it supposed.

In the same sense, that to this day... I still check for the REC light on my TiVo's around 8pm on Monday nights, just to make sure 24 is recording.

I might not going into the ToDo List, but I do make sure that the REC light is usually on during primetime during the week.

In the same sense that I trust my DSR704 to record both Stargates tonight... but when I get home from work, I will be pulling up the ToDo list .... just to check and make sure.


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

I trust that mine will record WAAAAAAAAY more SG1's then I want it to. Can't wait till thats fixed. :lol:



Earl Bonovich said:


> Option #4 was setup up in the spirt of:
> I trust it, but I will check occasionally to make sure it is doing what it supposed.
> 
> In the same sense, that to this day... I still check for the REC light on my TiVo's around 8pm on Monday nights, just to make sure 24 is recording.
> ...


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> I trust that mine will record WAAAAAAAAY more SG1's then I want it to. Can't wait till thats fixed. :lol:


If the R15 gets SG1 working for 1st run. I would love not to have a 1st run on SG1 but I would need it for the second showing. But I'm not sure the R15 would be able to figure that out. Since some of them come on the next day (after midnight).


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## Clint Lamor (Nov 15, 2005)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> If the R15 gets SG1 working for 1st run. I would love not to have a 1st run on SG1 but I would need it for the second showing. But I'm not sure the R15 would be able to figure that out. Since some of them come on the next day (after midnight).


It knows how to do that already. If something conflicts that has a higher priority it records the second showing for me. If it gets the first showing then it doesn't record the second. That parts golden it's just that I don't want the reruns on it.


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## cabanaboy1977 (Nov 16, 2005)

Clint Lamor said:


> It knows how to do that already. If something conflicts that has a higher priority it records the second showing for me. If it gets the first showing then it doesn't record the second. That parts golden it's just that I don't want the reruns on it.


That's how I have it now. I was talking about the R15 might see the ones that are after midnight on the next day as "reruns". From what I've heard Tivo uses the airdate and would mess up in this case (since the show is airing the day after).


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## ad301 (Mar 30, 2004)

cabanaboy1977 said:


> That's how I have it now. I was talking about the R15 might see the ones that are after midnight on the next day as "reruns". From what I've heard Tivo uses the airdate and would mess up in this case (since the show is airing the day after).


Not exactly true. Tivo does use the airdate as part of it's logic, but there's no midnight cutoff. It'll actually record something days later if there's a second showing after the first one didn't record due to a conflict.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Clint Lamor said:


> If something conflicts that has a higher priority it records the second showing for me.


I have limited experience with this. In my case, I was flipping through the guide and selected shows I wanted to record. I got the conflict resolution when attempting to record a 3rd show at that time spot. It only gave me the option to reschedule another showing of the 3rd show.
So, does it only give you the option to reschedule the last program you tried to schedule, or does it consider priorities? Will it allow you to reschedule one of the others if there're additional showings?


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## rtstephn (Feb 11, 2006)

I voted a 4. Actually, my wife uses the R15 in the bedroom, and she seldom reports problems with it...especially recently. If there were problems, I would DEFINATELY hear about them. 

I use, in the Living Room, the HR10. I am on my third unit (first two units died on me...they both also had bad HDMI ports). This third unit's HDMI finally works.

I still prefer the DirecTivo interface, but probably only because I've used it for several years now.


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Hi Bob, and welcome to the forum.
> 
> So my best suggestion for you would be to bite the bullet, do the reset-all, get the latest software, then give it one more try moving forward. It may or may not work for you.
> 
> ...


Hi Carl, thnx for the note. Might have to move some of the stuff I want to keep onto another storage system and "reset-all".

Bye the way, why do folks talk about "getting the latest software"? I read the FAQ, quoted below and the software upgrade is automatic, right? There is nothing I can do to "get" the latest software, right?

Q. Are software upgrades automatic, or do I have to do something to get them?

A. They will come through the satellite feed automatically when they are available. You do not have to take any action on your part to get a software upgrade.

The DirecTV R15 User guide (quote below) doesn't seem to say anything "additional" about software upgrades.

System Upgrades

Your DIRECTV Plus Receiver is able to receive upgrades or modifi cations to some of its features and functions. These modifications will occur automatically, usually at times when the receiver would likely be turned off. If your receiver is on when an upgrade or modification is sent, you may experience a disruption in reception for a minute or two. Your reception should return to normal after the modification is complete. Your receiver must be plugged in to AC power to receive any upgrades. Do not unplug your receiver while an upgrade is in progress. Please consult the System Info screen to check for an upgrade or modification planned by DIRECTV.

I just went to system info, confirmed I have the lastest update (103F on 5/17/2006) on my system.

Hummmm, it just occured to me, when I reset all, will the DVR reset to the factory installed software version or will it reboot to the latest software it has installed?

thnx, Bob


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Yes, the update process is automatic. However, there's a manual process to download & install the latest version also. Sometimes the manual process will get you the new update a little earlier.

The reset will retain the latest version.


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

thnx for the answer querty.


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## oclisa (Jul 15, 2006)

Hi Bob,

It's not hopeless. Maybe your R15 is like a woman and needs some tender loving care....Don't give up - there are always blips but you certainly shouldn't throw it in the trash. Like everything worth having, it takes effort.



bob_mb_ca said:


> Hi All, this my first post (2nd try - can't put link in here)
> 
> I'm looking for suggestions ???
> 
> ...


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## BigApe (May 12, 2006)

*


LockMD said:



I gave it a 4, only cause there is room for improvements. Although, I am pretty happy with it, this fall will be the real test.

Click to expand...

I gotta agree with LockMD.

I gave it a 4.

I assume you are reffering to recording an SL and not the manually scheduled events.

Joe*


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## BigApe (May 12, 2006)

*


ISWIZ said:



ALL DVR's have their quirks/problems/detractors. All work fine for most users. These forums attract a very narrow group of users, many with strong feelings.

Click to expand...

That's true. It seems the majority of the people who post in a forum (on virtually any topic) will have a strong opinion on one side or the other.

Joe*


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

oclisa said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> It's not hopeless. Maybe your R15 is like a woman and needs some tender loving care....Don't give up - there are always blips but you certainly shouldn't throw it in the trash. Like everything worth having, it takes effort.


Nonesense. It's an appliance intended for our convienience and enjoyment. It serves us or it goes in the trash.

Come to think of it, one should know when to dump the toxic, demanding, high maintenence woman, too, and get into a healthier, more rewarding relationship.

ApK


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> One of these days, I am going to setup the poll so we can see who votes for what.
> 
> As I have to ask... If you have ZERO confidence in the unit.. as of today, with all the updates.... why are you still using it?


Because D*, made me sign a 2 year commitment to get it.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

You can still return the equipment and get out of your commitment.


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

oclisa said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> It's not hopeless. Maybe your R15 is like a woman and needs some tender loving care....Don't give up - there are always blips but you certainly shouldn't throw it in the trash. Like everything worth having, it takes effort.


Hi Oclisa,

Thnx for the note!! I found it quite funny. :lol:

I don't plan to throw in the towel just yet. I plan to put some more memory in my TIVO.

Because, I've heard that when my three month DTV trial period ends, I won't be able to keep/view any of my recorded programs that are on a "pay" channel that I don't pay for in the future.

Has anyone else heard the same story? Is it true?

thnx, Bob


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

ApK said:


> Nonesense. It's an appliance intended for our convienience and enjoyment. It serves us or it goes in the trash.
> 
> Come to think of it, one should know when to dump the toxic, demanding, high maintenence woman, too, and get into a healthier, more rewarding relationship.
> 
> ApK


Hi ApK,

Wow, also quite witty, but a little harsh ... 

Yes, I certainly came close to giving my R15 the heave ho, but since so many programs are repeats, all was not lost.

Also, I've got about 50 hours of stuff on my R15, so it's not going in the trash until I finish Myth-busters, a few old Start Treks, and a handful of movies.

I'll bet watching those programs will take me a month or two, then, I plan to reboot my machine (reset all) and see how stable it is. Truth is, I like have 2 tuners and 100 hours of storage in one box. I also like seeing/hearing the program while I sort through the menu. I've also discovered that I can find stuff by program and by channel. The find, channel view gives me a "fuller" look, since it lists 5 or 6 programs in vertical fashion.

As for women, wow! I hope never let a relationship with a women become toxic  , too demanding :nono: and too high maintenance  (well 2 out of 3 ain't bad!).

thnx for the post.

Bob


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You can still return the equipment and get out of your commitment.


Yes, thnx for the reminder Earl  ... I hope it doesn't come to that. 

Bob


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

irmolars said:


> Because D*, made me sign a 2 year commitment to get it.


Hi Irmolars,

Is there a rule, (written or unwritten) that we shouldn't use company names ??

thnx,

Bob


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

As to me - I pretty much demand perfection in the three issues I listed above. I'll list them again for posterity: 

1. Reliably record all instructed programming.
2. Reliably record only "first run" programming when instructed.
3. Reliably fast forward over commercial advertising.

So, it really sounds like an R15 based unit isn't for me unless it becomes perfected in my three criteria. I know that #1 is almost there from what I hear. #2 needs a lot of work. #3 is there except that I'd need to get used to no jump back. However, I'm looking for perfect reliability. So, for now, I'll probably wait on the new DVR and perhaps go with the cable company when the TIVO series 3 comes out and my cable company offers enough high-definition programming if that happens first.

There are two things about me:

1. I almost never watch live television anymore, with the sole exception of maybe news.
2. I always in every case skip commercial advertising.

In my limited experience using the R15 on a few occasions, I could tell there were things I didn't like about the UI (I'm a UI minimalist) and there were things I'm not sure I could ever get used to (the lack of jump back on FF).


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## BillyT2002 (Oct 19, 2002)

bob_mb_ca said:


> Hi Irmolars,
> 
> Is there a rule, (written or unwritten) that we shouldn't use company names ??
> 
> ...


I don't think there's any rule about it. Most of us are just lazy and use D* for DirecTV and E* for DISH Network (Echostar).


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## irmolars (Mar 12, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> You can still return the equipment and get out of your commitment.


Then what would i do for a DVR?
If they would get off their butt and fix this thing. I wouldn't have to return anything.
I just want what i Bought to work.
9 months on the market is enough time to fix it, if they knew what they were doing.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

irmolars said:


> Then what would i do for a DVR?


Get yourself a DTivo off eBay. It works and it's dependable.


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

Wolffpack said:


> Get yourself a DTivo off eBay. It works and it's dependable.


5 Series 2 DTivos: upgraded to 120GB, 6.2, SuperPatched, tserver, mfs_ftp, tivowebplus, endpadplus, bufferhack, MRV, HMO
2 HR10-250s: Upgraded to 400GB, tserver, mfs_ftp, tivowebplus, endpadplus, bufferhack, Waiting for 6.3
2 R15s: Just playing and testing
2 R10's PROMs in house but not installed yet (sitting on the bench) 
JAVAHMO Server 2.4/EtiVo Server 1.0.1924.2

Hi Wolffpack,

I'm interested in all the "hacks" you've done (listed above) to your Tivo and DTivo, can you explain each ? Where can I get more info ?? I'm new to DBSTalk, perhaps you can send an email to me directly, rather than putting all your info in this thread ???

thnx,

Bob


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## bob_mb_ca (Jul 14, 2006)

BillyT2002 said:


> I don't think there's any rule about it. Most of us are just lazy and use D* for DirecTV and E* for DISH Network (Echostar).


Hi BillyT, thnx for the answer. Bob


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## wohlfie (Dec 28, 2005)

I originally voted a 4. May have to 'downgrade' to a 3.

Missed a show for no explicable reason last Friday.
See my post here for the details.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=60792


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## ApK (Mar 6, 2006)

BillyT2002 said:


> I don't think there's any rule about it. Most of us are just lazy and use D* for DirecTV and E* for DISH Network (Echostar).


So I guess it probably started with EchoStar---> E Star --> E* . . . I get it.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

bob_mb_ca said:


> 5 Series 2 DTivos: upgraded to 120GB, 6.2, SuperPatched, tserver, mfs_ftp, tivowebplus, endpadplus, bufferhack, MRV, HMO
> 2 HR10-250s: Upgraded to 400GB, tserver, mfs_ftp, tivowebplus, endpadplus, bufferhack, Waiting for 6.3
> 2 R15s: Just playing and testing
> 2 R10's PROMs in house but not installed yet (sitting on the bench)
> ...


Best place for a beginner to start would be http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=265929.

If you're experienced with Unix and want to get into the gritty details check out http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/index.php?.


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## Mordha (Jul 18, 2006)

I upgraded my r-15 to my bedroom, it used to be in the spare bedroom but it did save me on the episode of 24, the night the president gave that speech. I'm starting to feel more comfortable with my r-15


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

Right now my biggest annoyance with the R 15 is that it locks up daily. I am beginning to believe it may indeed be heat related, because it has been in the 90's this week in Central IN and I have a lousy heat pump for my air conditioning so my home is pretty humid and the R 15 has at least three days this past week locked up twice in one day, one day it was twice in less then an hour. Yesterday I tried putting the R 15 in standby mode any time I was going to leave the room or not use the R 15 for more then a couple of minutes, and to my surprise, twenty four hours with no lock up. So I tend to wonder more then ever if the lock up problem is heat related. I have it in a small room in a large entertainment center with nothing on top of the R 15 and the back of the entertainment center has been removed to allow more air circulation and there is a ceiling fan in the room that's on 24/7.

This is my fourth R 15 since end of April, it is a new model 300 and I have not received the upgrade. I have forced a download different times when resetting after a lock up but even though it always says, "New Software Found" it is always good old (not) 103F. I stick with the R 15 for a few reasons, I want to be able to record the XM Satellite 70s channel, I wanted Caller ID (which two weeks ago stopped working completely, no notices, no logging any calls, period) and I wanted the 100 hour recording time, my R 10 just didn't have enough hours for me. Also I feel if the R 15 is the future for Directv I might as well make my peace with that now. Otherwise frankly I'd go back to my dependable R 10, which I keep handy just in case.

I wanted to say thank you to all the posters on this forum who write about the R 15, when I got my first and then second R 15 and I had to call Tech Support almost daily I got so frustrated being told repeatedly, well no one else is having that problem with their R 15 and they'd tell me, I have had (insert number here) R 15's since they first came out and all of mine have never ever had a problem so it must be just _you. When I found this forum while searching for answers it was and is such a comfort for me to know I am not alone with what I am experiencing with the R 15 so my thanks to all._


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

Oh, almost forgot, don't know if this might mean anything, but the day my R 15 300 locked up twice in one hour I was on the active channel I'd gone to the "news mix" channel in the interactive section and the screen simply froze and I had to do a reset. Went back to the interactive section and mix channels and news mix and it happened a second time less then an hour later.


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

If you spend much time in the Mix channels (I'm in News quite a bit) you do see more problems and missed recordings.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

It really does not run cooler in standby versus on - almost everything is still powered in standby, and the hard drive is still running (and generating heat).

A quick way to isolate heat as a problem is to pull the cover off and place a fan nearby to give good airflow over the unit. If the trouble stops (and stays stopped for awhile) put the cover back on. If the trouble returns after about an hour (maybe less) you likely have an overheating problem.

Carl


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## Wolffpack (Jul 29, 2003)

But watch out pulling the cover. The power supply is exposed. You touch one of those little metal pieces on the power supply you'll remember it for a while. And be looking for a new R15.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Agreed. Good advice Wolffpack, thanks for adding that.

Also, if there is a seal of any type on the unit that you would have to break in order to remove the cover, you may want to reconsider as that would invalidate any warranty. There were no seals on my R15's, but that is a sample of 2 out of many thousands.

Carl


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## ccarmichael (Jun 3, 2003)

The boat anchor R15 does not record local television in San Diego. I went through four R15. Finally, I "freed" my self for the DirecTV promise of it was going to work by finding a gently used R10 DirecTV Tivo on eBay for $70.

Today, I would not trade anything for the R15


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Agreed. Good advice Wolffpack, thanks for adding that.
> 
> Also, if there is a seal of any type on the unit that you would have to break in order to remove the cover, you may want to reconsider as that would invalidate any warranty. There were no seals on my R15's, but that is a sample of 2 out of many thousands.
> 
> Carl


Mine had no seal either. Also, I think it's only got a 90 day warranty.


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions/ideas. I admit I wouldn't be comfortable removing the cover, I have to plead ignorance when it comes to tinkering with the R 15 "under the hood". I'm very comfortable using the R 15 just not messing with the workings. Not meaning to disrespect or question anyone's knowledge I have much respect for the posters here trying to help us newbies, but I must say that so far my experiment of putting the R 15 into standby mode anytime I am not actually watching something or using the active channels or find by feature, is working for me. It may indeed be a fluke or a coincidence. But from last Wed. to Sunday night every time I was not directly using the R 15 even for a few minutes, into standby it went. 

And it didn't lock up once during that time. Monday morning after reading the reply to my earlier post saying that putting it into standby shouldn't have anything to do with it not freezing/locking due to overheating, I decided to test that and I simply left the R 15 on, not on standby while I left the room for no more then five to at most ten minutes. When I came back, the R 15 hadn't gone into screen saver mode and it was locked up tight, causing me to have to hit the red panic button (reset) as I call it. 

Since I have gone back to placing the R 15 in standby upon not using it for a few minutes or for hours, it has again been just fine with no lock ups. Maybe there is no basis for this working, but it does. At least so far, for this unit and I guess I'll continue using this "method" as long as it keeps the R 15 lock up free each day. My Caller ID feature is gone however, no on screen notices, no logged calls. As soon as I clear a bunch of stored movies I hope to do a reformat as per *D* tech support, (they had me do that to resolve the daily freezing problem once before, all I got for my troubles was to lose everything I'd recorded, I was aware that would happen but thought it worth it since I was assured that the reformat was the definitive fix for the daily lock ups, needless to say after the reformat the R 15 locked up less then twenty four hours later and continued to lock up daily until I started this putting it in standby. 

Again this may simply be a total coincidence that the R 15 has stopped locking up since I've been putting it in standby, which I admit is a pain to remember to do that each time I leave the room or stop watching TV for a few minutes, but as long as it works, may as well keep on doing it, at least it's cut my stress level somewhat. I hope maybe the software upgrade that I'm still waiting on for my model 300 (currently running 103F) "might" fix the loss of Caller ID and the daily lock ups and I won't have to rely on standby. Anyway thanks again for the help. I appreciate it.


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## qwerty (Feb 19, 2006)

Glad to hear it's working better for you.
Should you have more problems, taking the cover off is quite simple. Three screws in the back, slide the cover back a half inch and lift it off. Hope you never need to!


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## MercurialIN (Jul 17, 2006)

qwerty said:


> Glad to hear it's working better for you.
> Should you have more problems, taking the cover off is quite simple. Three screws in the back, slide the cover back a half inch and lift it off. Hope you never need to!


Thanks for the input. Glad to know it is simple to do. I admit I am glad not to have to reset the R 15 daily like I was having to. It's a pain putting it into standby constantly, but I'd rather do that then continue losing my TDL and guide daily due to resetting. I guess as long as it's working can't complain.


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## Bud33 (Jan 26, 2006)

I gave it a 4 (maybe I should have voted twice, once for each of my units) but only because it still is recording some repeats. I have a hunch the the recording problem has more to do with the guide listing than the machine, I guess Only time will tell.


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