# TV via Fiber



## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Verizon fiber optic service was recently brought to my area, and there's talk of TV service being offered sometime in the future. I noticed a post on another forum relating to an offering Verizon proposes for the nearby city of Beaumont, CA. More information than anyone probably wants to know is in a PDF document at:

(warning - 4.6 MB)
http://www.ci.beaumont.ca.us/agendas/110204/2a.PDF

Pages 43-54 of that PDF list the proposed channels, including 22 HDTV listed below (pages 52-53 of the PDF). A caveat notes that nothing is set in stone.

As Verizon and its counterparts in other markets expand their fiber systems, satellite TV could be in for trouble. A lot of "ifs" still exist, but this is a shot across the bow to the satellite companies. Losing large numbers of customers in the densely populated cities where fiber will be available won't help their bottom lines.

The proposed channel numbers and HD offerings are:

800 Discovery HDTV
801 Bravo HD+ TV
802 HD Net
803 HD Net Movies
804 ESPN HDTV
805 ABC HDTV
806 NBC HDTV
807 CBS HDTV
808 FOX HDTV 
809 PBS HDTV
810 In Demand 1 HDTV
811 In Demand 2 HDTV
812 TNT HDTV
813 A&E HDTV
814 MTV HDTV
815 Spike HDTV
816 MSG HDTV
817 NBATV HDTV 
818 NFL Network HDTV
819 Showtime HDTV
820 TMC HDTV
821 Starz! HDTV
822 Encore HD TV
823 HBO HDTV 
824 Cinemax HDTV
825 Spice HDTV


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## juan ellitinez (Jan 31, 2003)

Looks like an old list..some of those channels have folded or changed names


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

juan ellitinez said:


> Looks like an old list..some of those channels have folded or changed names


You're right - dates on the documents are Fall 2004.


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## derwin0 (Jan 31, 2005)

since the strength of satellite came from rural areas where cable wasn't, I don't think Fiber will make much of a difference.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

derwin0 said:


> since the strength of satellite came from rural areas where cable wasn't, I don't think Fiber will make much of a difference.


 Unfortunately, E* and D* seem to have forgotten their roots.

I'll guess that the cities account for 75% of the current subscriber base.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I agree Simple Simon, the roots have fallen out.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

I found some new information re: what's coming from Verizon fiber optic TV. Keller, TX, is apparently the first area (or maybe a test area) for the service. Someone in the Keller area received a mailing from Verizon and posted it.

The channel listing is in a PDF at:

http://www.thefilehoster.com/images/ka326058.pdf

Pricing PDF is at:

http://www.thefilehoster.com/images/kTi26334.pdf


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

AllieVi said:


> I found some new information re: what's coming from Verizon fiber optic TV. Keller, TX, is apparently the first area (or maybe a test area) for the service. Someone in the Keller area received a mailing from Verizon and posted it.


Keller is the official guinea pig for FiOS with Verizon. They were the first to get wired and lit up and they are the first to get video service. It's been in limited (read: employee) trials for a bit now IIRC. This video roll out should be the start of the actual roll out and not just trials although I'm sure they will pace themselves at first to roll out any of the kinks of the "production" system.

The nice thing about how Verizon has designed their system is that there are two geographically dispersed ground stations for the entire system. Each community gets feeds from both of them for all channels, allowing them to seamlessly switch from one to the other depending on signal conditions. No more rain fade. No more solar outages. If an environmental or other problem prohibits one ground station from picking up the satellite signal, the other one is used instead. The feeds are sent to each community where the locals get muxed into the video stream and then sent to the homes. When a new area gets lit up, all Verizon has to do is setup a (relatively) small closet in some CO to mux in the locals instead of a whole facility with dishes and all.

If Keller is released successfully without major issues, I'd expect to see cities quickly get set up. My town is scheduled to be lit up around December and I'm crossing my fingers that video will be available then. Not that Dish hasn't served me well, but Verizon's package looks quite attractive, especially with a $12 Showtime/Starz/Encore movie lineup. The 6-tuner DVR will likely throw me over the edge if I was still hesitant.


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## mattb (Apr 29, 2002)

Now only if E* or D* would add the MTV/VH1 Suites.. It's amazing that their on about every digital cable system (or in this case Fiber System) but E* and D* contiune to focus on adding such mundaine things like international and shopping channels instead. You would think E* or D* would score more customers if they added more general enterainment channels.


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## Anthony (Dec 16, 2002)

Let's do a cost comparison: Dish vs. FIOS:

FIOS -
160-channel expanded-basic lineup for $39.95
Sports for $5.95 
Starz & Showtime for $11.95 
HBO & Cinemax for $24.95 
FIOS Eveything Package = $82.80 + $7.00 (Approx. N.Y. Tax) = $89.80

DISH -
Equivalent Americas Everything Pak = $86.99

FIOS doesn't look as cheap as I thought it would be.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

Anthony said:


> Let's do a cost comparison: Dish vs. FIOS:
> 
> ...
> 
> FIOS doesn't look as cheap as I thought it would be.


If the price is similar for equivalent programming, people will be making decisions based on other criteria. Time will tell how that works out.

Verizon will be in the position of being able to provide the big 4 (landline voice, cellular, broadband and TV) and I expect they will offer a package price.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

Anthony said:


> Let's do a cost comparison: Dish vs. FIOS:
> <snipped>
> FIOS doesn't look as cheap as I thought it would be.


For the AEP equivalent, things aren't all that different. But look at it for the lesser packages. I'm looking at the expanded basic + movies. My total would come out to around $52. The closest equivalent with Dish would be AT180+Showtime+Starz at $69.

Also, while your numbers were about the same comparing the two packages, you are also getting 20 more regular channels with Verizon's "AEP" compared to Dish's. And you get 54 "channels" of VOD included as well.

It's impossible to directly compare the two services as the channel lineups aren't the same. You may favor one channel more then I do, or vice versa so a particular package's value is different from customer to customer. But I think that Verizon's current package is as good as if not better then Dish's (or DirecTV).

What it definitely known is that it's significantly better then the Comcast equivalent here in my area. Comcast I think is already realizing it as they had a promo the other day for their basic digital package + HBO/Starz for $39 IIRC but you were locked into a contract for 16 or 18 months. I think they are just getting a head start on the pending Verizon rollout later this year.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Are they running fiber to the door or using copper for the "last mile"?

Copper might limit the number of HD Streams that could be brought in at a time (limit the number of HD tuners).

What's the internet speed?
(do they do 2-way communication over a single fiber?)

If you get this, please post and let us know how it works out.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

David_Levin said:


> Are they running fiber to the door or using copper for the "last mile"?


I recently got the FiOS system. The fiber comes to the house where an interface unit converts the optical signals to traditional digital data for distribution throughtout the house via copper.



David_Levin said:


> What's the internet speed?


Three levels of service are offered:

5 Mbps down/2 up - $40/mo.
15 Mbps down/2 up - $50/mo.
30 Mbps down/5 up - $200/mo.

I subscribe at the $40 level - I doubt that there are any advantages today for the 15 MB or 30 MB levels - the Internet and the distant computers probably can't maintain that throughput.



David_Levin said:


> (do they do 2-way communication over a single fiber?)...


Yes, the two-way is over a single fiber.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

Verizon's network is fiber all the way to the door. Video is sent at a different lamba as internet and phone service, so bandwidth really isn't an issue and is potentially near limitless as technology improves.

Internet service is 2-way BPON (broadband passive optical network) serving as an ATM network. Each ATM channel has a combined bandwidth of 622 mbits down and 155 up and is split up into a maximum of 32 seperate connections. They are also looking into upgrading already to a GPON (Gigabit Passive Optical Network) which will bump the combined bandwidth to 2.4gbits. 

Verizon's internet packages are $40 for 5mbit/2mbit, $50 for 15/2, and $199 for 30/5. Some areas have a different rate for the 30/5 plan of $55 to compete with OOL and may (or may not) be available elsewhere in the near future. You can get a $5 discount I beleive if you commit to a year of service as well as $5 off if you bundle internet service with a some combination of local, long distance, and/or cellular.

SBC is rolling out a hybrid fiber/VDSL which is similar to Verizon's network with fiber backbones reaching into the neighborhood. The difference is in the "last mile" in the neighborhood is over existing copper.

I'm really interested in the 15/2 plan for $50, dropping local and long distance and switching to vonage, then getting the video service. My combined bill will go from about $120 ($40 for dish, 80 for phone/dsl) to $115 ($50 internet, $15 VoIP, $52 for video), but I'll be getting 10x the download speeds as well as a significant bump in TV programming over Dish's AT60.

Edited: looks like AllieVi beat me to it...forgot to hit submit after I typed it up.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

AllieVi said:


> I subscribe at the $40 level - I doubt that there are any advantages today for the 15 MB or 30 MB levels - the Internet and the distant computers probably can't maintain that throughput.


For a home user, I'd agree for the download speeds. However, if you work at home the upload speed difference between 2 and 5 mbit could be signifiant and worth it. And don't forget that FiOS is also available for businesses. A 30 mbit connection for $200 beats the pants off of a $400 T-1. Yeah it may not come with a SLA but as a non-critical connection to the internet, it's nearly impossible to beat unless you happen to work right next door to an ISP with extra capacity they would sell cheap.


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

An article in today's (Sep 23) New York Times announces Verizon's video roll-out in Keller, TX.

(subscription required)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/23/technology/23verizon.html

_"Verizon Communications began taking orders yesterday for its new television service, which the company hopes will draw business away from cable and satellite providers.

As part of a national strategy, about 9,000 Verizon customers in Keller, Tex., 30 miles west of Dallas, will be the first to subscribe to the television service, called FiOS TV. The service includes more than 180 digital video and music channels, 20 high-definition channels and video-on-demand for $39.95 a month, carried over fiber optic cables that were installed to replace older copper lines."

..._


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## AllieVi (Apr 10, 2002)

This FiOS article:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6286136.html?&display=Features&referral=SUPP

mentions the following:

_"Verizon officials attribute the clearer video feeds on FiOS TV to its strategy of not compressing HDTV signals, as is the practice for Charter and DirecTV."_

It's an interesting read. As FiOS TV rolls out across the country, the satellite and cable companies will feel the competition.


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