# and AMD strikes back



## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

Just when it seemed Intel was finally pulling away in the performance wars with AMD stuck in the mud at 2200...

http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020821/index.html

http://anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1685

What's not to leave about free market capitalism folks?
Go AMD go--COURSE, it's only a paper launch and it won't be available until September, but then Intel does this all the time.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Yea, but my company still won't buy them. :lol: We have standardized on Intel, and I doubt that will change...


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

My company hasn't standardized on Intel, but on Dell Optiplexes (and several models of Dell Notebooks). Which I think is effectively the same as standardizing on Intel 

I still have my Dell 400MHz Notebook. It does the job, I figure everyone else is clammering for a new PC, maybe I can use that as leverage later on by not asking for a new PC. Actually some manager will get a new PC (so they can write Word Docs) and I'll get a handme-down so I can administrate the E-mail and File/Print Server systems and create those dynamic Visio documents, etc.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

"My company hasn't standardized on Intel, but on Dell Optiplexes"

Man, I feel sorry for you! I hate Dells - WAY too many proprietary components. That said, they are reliable and user friendly, but you'd have to be darn sure you're never going to want to do any major upgrades or tweaking. Ever.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Zac, remember in a corporate world it doesn' t matter what components there are, just that they are all the same. If integrated Intel video chipsets are on all computers, then its really easy to trouble shoot them. We use Dell here also and I think our company saves millions of dollars keeping all the computers similar. Plus with Dell, I get a new laptop every 2 years. 

And BTW, corporate computers are never tweeked. You just buy a new one. I had a word processor who became a CAD technician. I ordered her a new computer and sent the old one back.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> *"My company hasn't standardized on Intel, but on Dell Optiplexes"
> 
> Man, I feel sorry for you! I hate Dells - WAY too many proprietary components. That said, they are reliable and user friendly, but you'd have to be darn sure you're never going to want to do any major upgrades or tweaking. Ever. *


Zac/Mark/Whatever...

Thats what depreciation is for. After 3 (or is it 5 years?) it is depreciated and written off and donated or sold real cheap to employees. The only upgrading we do is memory and hard drives which is generally not proprietary. Any parts break that are removable we get identical replacement parts from Dell. If it is something integrated in the motherboard we have Dell Business Warranty and repair come in and repair the systems. Supporting Dells is in my opinion much better than supporting other systems (And I've supported HP, IBM, Compaq and Generic/Garage built equipment over the years).

Have you seen a recent Dell Optiplex or Dimension, not exactly Proprietary. NVidia video cards, Sound Blaster sound boards, 3Com NICS. And the drivers sitting nicely on the Dell Support site What is proprietary about that. If you are talking about it all being integrated on the motherboard, who cares. These machines are not made to play games. As they exist now, except for memory or hard drive space the systems should and have always had the resources to run anything BUSINESS RELATED down the line for the next 3-5 years (probably chugging kind of slow and heavy the 4th year). I don't care if the motherboard is proprietary as if the CPU/NIC/Video/Sound needed upgrading the machine itself would be replaced, if parts need to be replaced they are either under warranty or if out of warranty chances are spending more than $50-100 on the system to fix it would not be cost effective.


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## lee635 (Apr 17, 2002)

Well over here in the public sector, we "frivolously" reuse everything. Students take old or broken microcomputers and salvage parts to make a few working machines for student labs etc. I think we end up with lots of the PCs that your companies' are surplusing.

On the faculty and administrative side, we annually update our minimum microcomputer service level requirements and use those standards to determine which microcomputers get upgraded that year. For example, the standard might say that a pentium II 400 or equivalent is the minimum processor for a standard user. If your pc is below that level, then you generally get a new pc and your old one moves down the food chain. Currently, I still see early pentiums going to public surplus. 

For your new PC, we use a single configuration and order in fairly large lots with other state agencies to get a lower price. We see lots of Dells, Microns and HPs and a smattering of other systems.

I echo the comment about not upgrading systems on our faculty and administrative side. If something breaks that can't be easily fixed, ie anything other than a bad hard drive, then we ship it over to be salvaged for computer labs. Now in the student labs and so forth, there's lots of tinkering, but those PCs aren't in a one-to-one production environment.


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

I understand that in a corporate environment there are many advantages to a setup like Dell, I never denied that. If I ran a company I'd probably go with Dell or a similar company for systems.

"Have you seen a recent Dell Optiplex or Dimension, not exactly Proprietary."

That I can't agree with. The high school I went to bought a ton'o Dells (Optiplexes). EVERYTHING was weird. Non-standard mainboard, powersupply, case, onboard video, etc...


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Zac again you prove you don't have a clue what you are talking about. 

How is it non-standard. Its an intel chipset, dell power supply, intel on board video??? That sounds better than an A-Open chipset to me???

Look at the Dell Precision 530 workstation next to me...

Intel 860 Chipset
2 Intel Xeon processors 2.4mhz
1GB PC800 ECC RDRAM
Integrated Adaptec SCSI
2 Seagate Ultra 160 36 gig drives
3Dlabs , Wildcat III 6110 Video Card
2 21" Dell Trinitron Monitors
DVD+RW+R CD Drive
Integrated 3COM 10/100mbps 3C905C 

Tell me what is proprietary on that configuration? The optiplex have the same integrated NICs but Intel Video.... What's wrong with that?


NVidia


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Zac _
> *That I can't agree with. The high school I went to bought a ton'o Dells (Optiplexes). EVERYTHING was weird. Non-standard mainboard, powersupply, case, onboard video, etc... *


Quantity makes its own Quality. If we are using Dells only and have been for years, then for all purposes the "Non-Standard" mainboards, power supplies and Cases are effectively Standard. Our Hardware techs love working with the Mini case and mid-tower of the Dell Optiplexes, compared to some other name brand systems we used to use. Again the Onboard Video and Sound and NICs are not a problem because they WE NEVER UPGRADE THEM. If something breaks we can disable the onboard component and install a PCI card until the replacement system board arrives. The issues you bring up can be valid especially to the home user, but in the world many of us live in they are moot points.

If you look at most corporate systems these days, they all have Motherboards with Intergrated Video/Sound and probably NICs. NICs are probably the only component that an IT department might care about and not utilize the intergrated component and add their own PCI card. If Intergrated motherboards reduce cost and there is no negative I can see, the more power to them.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by James_F _
> *Tell me what is proprietary on that configuration? The optiplex have the same integrated NICs but Intel Video.... What's wrong with that?*


I think by every component not being removable and usable in a clone system (and visa versa) he feels it is proprietary. But he dosen't understand that in many environments that makes no difference. But he dosen't realize that an intergrated motherboard with a NVIDIA Vid, S-Blaster Sound and 3Com Nic is non-proprietary in our books. I guess it is all about Symantecs???


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

As I said, he is confusing his world with reality again. :nono:


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## John Corn (Mar 21, 2002)

It's good to see AMD back in the performance game. On the other hand, I don't see this selling well, with Hammer just a few months down the line.


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## gcutler (Mar 23, 2002)

Speaking of Proprietary, I would like to take Zac back in time 10 year to when I worked at an Insurance company and worked with IBM PS/2s exclusively (and Token-Ring). While there were some benefits of Microchannel systems, it would often drive me crazy (everything microchannel was 2x as expensive because 3-Com had to pay IBM a cut to produce a 3Com Microchannel Nic, etc) If dealing with them made me crazy, Zac's head would explode at the PS/2s (even between model #s, the ability to exchange parts was almost impossible, hard drive at best???)


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## MarkA (Mar 23, 2002)

"How is it non-standard. Its an intel chipset, dell power supply, intel on board video??? That sounds better than an A-Open chipset to me???

It doesn't matter. It's proprietary because if you decide to upgrade your case, the mainboard and power supply won't fit! If you decide to upgrade your mainboard (more likely) you'll need a new case and power supply. Gateway is bad enough (they use a different pinout for the power button connector, so you need to rewire to use a standard ATX mainboard in their cases).

"Tell me what is proprietary on that configuration? The optiplex have the same integrated NICs but Intel Video.... What's wrong with that?"

The mainboard, and powersupply shape. The mainboard and power supply, at least on the Dell Optiplexes at school (from 2000 and 2001) I've seen do not meet ATX standards.

---PS--- I also acknowledge the advantage of Dells, and they are good, well-built (if non-standard) computers. I wouldn't hesitate to suggest them for a corporate environment.


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## Mark Holtz (Mar 23, 2002)

:computer: Hmmmm..... I can't wait for the price drops to take effect.  Unless you need bleeding-edge technology, you can save some money. 

As for standardization in the workplace, if you are dealing with 100+ workstations, it's best to have as few variables as possible. Otherwise, you'll go nuts over the various configurations. I'm fortunate enough to insist that every tech has their own box to configure to their hearts delight.


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## James_F (Apr 23, 2002)

Let me put it this way, why would you buy a computer just so you could put it in a new case 2 years down the road? You throw the damn thing out before reusing any part... HDs are too small, CD-Roms too slow, RAM doesn't work with new motherboards. Its less hastle to buy a new computer every two years. Heck, I lease my two dells at home. That way they never get old. I put my own video cards in after one year, but I just pull them when I need to send the computers back to dell. :shrug:


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