# NASCAR 2017 lots of changes, sounds good



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Drivers retiring,
new young drivers taking their place,
SHR changed to Fords,
changing the format of all races so that they are 3 segments and the first 10 finishers in each segment gets points awarded.
Less bad timing commercials !!!! Yeah !!!!
All sounds like improvement to me.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Sigh ...

At the beginning of 2016 we were getting ready for the year long celebration of Tony Stewart's retirement. Jeff Gordon was in the broadcast booth and it might just be Tony's year to come back from recent adversities (his injury and the death he was involved with in separate winged sprint car accidents). Even after his pre-season accident there was a chance that it still could be his year. After all, Kyle Busch missed the first part of the 2015 season and still won the championship.

It was not meant to be. Tony Stewart quietly left the sport ... Dale Jr and Se7en Time became the big stories of 2016 with Jeff Gordon riding again.

So now we enter 2017 thinking who is next to retire ... bets would probably been placed on Kenseth. If you would have written the headline "Joe Gibbs Driver Retires" Kenseth or Hamlin would have been the ones most people would have guessed. But Edwards? Two years in to a three year contract and doing well at being one of the best spokepeople in NASCAR? With no place to go but home to his loving wife and family? Ok, it makes more sense when one realizes that his wife is a doctor who deals with brain injury. With Dale's injury and Carl's close calls stock car racing is becoming too dangerous. Sure, no one has been killed on track since Dale Sr in 2001 - but Carl has nothing more to prove. He was a great driver who did all he could in the sport.

Carl Edwards WILL be in the Hall of Fame at some point. Mark Martin is the best proof of that prediction. Drivers do not need to have a cup championship to be in the Hall of Fame - and non-premier series wins (and championships) count. He may not be a first ballot inductee - but he will make it in.

The thought occurred to me ... for a driver to be eligible for the hall of fame they must be over 55 or out of the car for three years. Jeff Gordon drove last year, pushing his eligibility back. Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards both drove last year and are not expected to drive again. In 2020 all three will be eligible for the Hall of Fame. Which one(s) will make it? I expect Jeff and Tony to be first ballot inductees due to their multiple championships.

And now ... format changes for 2017. More sighing in my next post.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Sigh ...
> 
> At the beginning of 2016 we were getting ready for the year long celebration of Tony Stewart's retirement. Jeff Gordon was in the broadcast booth and it might just be Tony's year to come back from recent adversities (his injury and the death he was involved with in separate winged sprint car accidents). Even after his pre-season accident there was a chance that it still could be his year. After all, Kyle Busch missed the first part of the 2015 season and still won the championship.
> 
> ...


Channel 219 has a NASCAR special where they explained it all.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Channel 219 is America's Auction Network. 

I went to the NASCAR.COM website to read the explanation (they have a nice video) without reinterpretations that might add misunderstanding:
* Three "stages" per race. Top ten drivers at the end of stage 1 and stage 2 awarded points toward the championship (10 points down to 1). Each "stage winner" is also awarded one postseason point. Stages can end under caution and the caution is thrown at the end of stage 1 and 2.
* The third stage ends the race with 40 points toward the championship for first, then 35 for second down to one point for 36th through 40th. No lap bonus or most laps led bonus. The race winner also gets five postseason points.
* The race is "official" at the end of the second stage (which is not necessarily half way).
* A "regular season champion" will receive 15 postseason points (so those stage wins will help race winners). Second through tenth finishers in the regular season also get 10 to 1 postseason points.
* Postseason points continue round to round until Homestead (where they do not count).

Commentary:
A perfect race would be winning all three stages. 60 championship points (toward winning the regular season) plus seven postseason points.

I'd rather watch racing than do math ... so this is (in my opinion) just another convoluted way to screw with my favorite sport. I did not like the old points system where there was a sliding scale. One place, one point made sense. If someone would have called in to Moody's show on SiriusXM with this format they would have been mocked severely (I expect it will be supported since it came from NASCAR). Stage winners, cautions to bunch up the field. More manipulation.

What I like about the changes is that the "playoff points" carry on beyond the first round. Under the 2014-2015-2016 format I personally looked at the cup chase as being a seven race series. The first three chase races usually eliminated drivers that shouldn't have been in the chase. (Opening the chase to 16 drivers including potentially 30th place with one win let lesser drivers into the chase.) The final seven races started with a clean slate - twelve drivers all with 3000 points and no bonuses. Survive that and eight drivers had 4000 points and no bonuses. Survive that and it was a four way run to be ahead of the other three. The new format allows the bonuses to continue. That should encourage drivers to do better than make the final 12.

But overall there is too much math and too much thought. The 2016 system was easier to explain and didn't need fixing (other than carrying points forward).


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Channel 219 is America's Auction Network.
> 
> I went to the NASCAR.COM website to read the explanation (they have a nice video) without reinterpretations that might add misunderstanding:
> * Three "stages" per race. Top ten drivers at the end of stage 1 and stage 2 awarded points toward the championship (10 points down to 1). Each "stage winner" is also awarded one postseason point. Stages can end under caution and the caution is thrown at the end of stage 1 and 2.
> ...


I thought you were on DirecTV. Should have read your signature.

You don't need math for watching the race. See them scramble to get to one of the top 10 in segment 1 and 2 and then the ultimate winner in the 3rd segment. Then you can look at your favorite website for the points situation.
Last year 1 of every 3 minutes of the race was commercials on the TV. I hope they are true about doing a better job of this than they have been doing. I know there was many times I would say, No way they are going to commercial now !


----------



## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

NASCAR is dying due to all of these idiotic changes. Ratings are down every year, and will be down again. The Market is just rejecting the contrived formats and gimmick "championships". 

NASCAR had a formula that worked. It abandoned it and has lost its way, and now is going to chop up the races into heats and awarding points. It all comes down to this idiotic chase, which tells the viewer that the race simply does not matter, only making this idiotic chase.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

SamC said:


> NASCAR is dying due to all of these idiotic changes. Ratings are down every year, and will be down again. The Market is just rejecting the contrived formats and gimmick "championships".
> 
> NASCAR had a formula that worked. It abandoned it and has lost its way, and now is going to chop up the races into heats and awarding points. It all comes down to this idiotic chase, which tells the viewer that the race simply does not matter, only making this idiotic chase.


I disagree. The racing is getting better every year.
This new points and segmented races should make the effort for every race count towards the end result for the Playoff at the end of the season.
The broadcast channels were involved in the discussions and agreed to make changes to try and not interrupt the action so much. We will be able to watch the pit stops, etc.
Only time will tell for sure.


----------



## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

Time will tell, but history matters. Fact is live gate, TV ratings and the cost of a full boat sponsorship have declined every year since the format of the year Brian France started. Is THIS latest format finally the first good idea? Or the 12th straight Brian France failure? 

History matters. And Brian's is one of failure after failure.

First generation starts the business.
Second generation builds the business.
Third generation destroys the business.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Has there been a points system in the past where the winner of the race could have ended up with less points than second place? The new points structure would allow that to happen. The winner gets 40 points toward the championship and five playoff points. If they ran poorly early in the race (11th or worse) that would be the only points earned. Meanwhile another driver could win the first two segments, finish 16th, and end up with more points.

One does not have to win the race to have a "good points day". 2nd in the first two segments and 14th at the end would still be 41 points.

They finally got rid of the "good points day" over past few years. Now it will be back.
Stop the race and give out points for winning the Daytona 200.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Has there been a points system in the past where the winner of the race could have ended up with less points than second place? The new points structure would allow that to happen. The winner gets 40 points toward the championship and five playoff points. If they ran poorly early in the race (11th or worse) that would be the only points earned. Meanwhile another driver could win the first two segments, finish 16th, and end up with more points.
> 
> One does not have to win the race to have a "good points day". 2nd in the first two segments and 14th at the end would still be 41 points.
> 
> ...


I don't think that is right. First place in the first 2 segments is only 10 points each segment. 10th place in each segment is only 1 point per segment. If a driver won segment 1 and 2 that would be 20 points and the segment 3 he would get Edit: What I posted was wrong for segment 3. I don't know how many points each position gets.

Where did our text strike thru go ?.


----------



## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Our participation in watching has declined just a little in each of the past several years. The last race we attended was Bristol in 2008, and we still enjoy going. If Kenseth (our hometown driver) retires....our participation will drop significantly. Seems like they're heading towards All-Star racing formats for races. I bet sometime in the future they'll even add a voted Fan Favorite racer to the final Chase weekend, and it'll probably be Jr. even if he's not racing anymore..........:fearscream:.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jimmie57 said:


> I don't think that is right. First place in the first 2 segments is only 10 points each segment. 10th place in each segment is only 1 point per segment. If a driver won segment 1 and 2 that would be 20 points and the segment 3 he would get 9 points for his second place finish for a total of 29.


Segment 3 (the end of the race) has 40 points for the winner, 35 points for 2nd down to 1 point for 36th through 40th.
In my example 16th place is 21 points for the finish ... plus ten points for each segment win makes 41 points for a 16th place finish - beating the race winner by one point. (In my example the race winner was 11th or worse in the first two segments.)

Second place at the end plus "winning" the first two segments is 55 points. The race winner would need to be 3rd in the first two segments (8 points each) or 2nd in one segment and at least 4th in the other to beat 55 points. It is not hard to find scenarios where the race winner does not end up with the most points for the day. (They do end up with the most playoff points.)

The new points scheme rewards people who were good all day long ... or at least on the three laps where points are awarded. The reward has been taken away for leading any lap (which was often snagged by a person staying out for one more lap under caution or green flag pit stops) and leading the most laps. 10 points is too big of a reward.

The concept of "bunching up the field" is nothing new ... the chase was created to stop one driver from having such a great lead that the championship was decided before the final race. A manipulation to bunch up the top 10, then the top 12 (or 13 when someone cheated), then the top 16. Carrying over the playoff points helps soften the bunching in the post season since the drivers with the most wins will maintain their bonus points instead of having 12 cars tied for first with seven races to go, then 8 cars tied for first with four races to go.

The concept seems to be "lets make it close so it can be more exciting!" But it turns in to "everyone stop and let the slower cars catch up". Both with the points and the cautions at the end of each segment.

I have heard comparisons on the radio today where people are claiming that other sports award points during the course of the game. But what they forgot was that at the end of the game only one point mattered. Who won. I cannot think of a "stick and ball" sport where performance during the game counts after the game is over other than for the win. They qualify for their playoffs based on WINS ... not how many points were scored along the way. If anyone thinks this scheme makes NASCAR more like other sports they are wrong.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Nascar confirmed that practice time at each track will be reduced about an hour per weekend with the exception of 2 tracks that have been resurfaced since the season ended last year. Found the article on NBC Sports.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The drivers seem to accept (perhaps even like) the points change. I suppose they are the ones most affected.

One other rule change that will affect this season is for damaged cars. If I understand correctly, teams will be given five minutes on pit road to repair a damaged car and then their day will be over. Teams will not be able to take cars behind the wall and bring them back out (taking a car behind the wall ends the day). 5 minutes does not seem like a long enough time to complete anything more than a minor repair. And the 5 minutes is cumulative, so five one minute repair pit stops is five minutes.

Yes, this will prevent teams from coming back 45 laps later and stinking up the show. (Although the push to get out quickly may mean more parts shed on the course.) They have done that in the past to gain a few more points over others having a bad day. With 36-40th getting one point each perhaps the importance of finishing 36th instead of 40th is gone. But five minutes and no going behind the wall is going to make a difference with the teams skilled at doing anything to finish the day.

BTW: My favorite avoidance of a "did not finish" was performed by Carl Edwards in a Nationwide race. He wrecked early - left the track and joined the broadcast team in the booth for most of the race then went back out for the last few laps of the race. I cannot remember how many laps down he was ... but he finished!


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> The drivers seem to accept (perhaps even like) the points change. I suppose they are the ones most affected.
> 
> One other rule change that will affect this season is for damaged cars. If I understand correctly, teams will be given five minutes on pit road to repair a damaged car and then their day will be over. Teams will not be able to take cars behind the wall and bring them back out (taking a car behind the wall ends the day). 5 minutes does not seem like a long enough time to complete anything more than a minor repair. And the 5 minutes is cumulative, so five one minute repair pit stops is five minutes.
> 
> ...


I have not seen that but it sounds ok to me. It's kinda like boxing and the boxer is knocked out.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Five minutes sounds like a three count instead of a ten count. And no going behind the wall? I can't find a web source for the new rule. I did find one that said cup drivers had to start the race on their qualifying tires. I'm not sure how that will work with Happy Hour.

They were discussing "one day races" on NASCAR radio this week (practice qualify and race all on the same day). Some callers suggested going straight from the truck to qualify but that was shot down. Based on rain delays, I believe most teams would rather skip qualifying than the practices. And NASCAR seems to agree when rain shortens the schedule and they have practice instead of qualifying.

So how about a "no qualifying" rule modification? Line up the cars by owner points. I'm not sure what to do with non-charter cars if there was no qualifying (fastest lap in practice?). That would be bad (some cars "qualifying" during practice while other cars are running test laps). Ok --- keep qualifying.


----------



## hookemfins (Jul 3, 2007)

James Long said:


> If I understand correctly, teams will be given five minutes on pit road to repair a damaged car and then their day will be over. Teams will not be able to take cars behind the wall and bring them back out (taking a car behind the wall ends the day). 5 minutes does not seem like a long enough time to complete anything more than a minor repair. And the 5 minutes is cumulative, so five one minute repair pit stops is five minutes.


Nothing official has been announced that I know of but Larry Mac mentioned it on TMD a couple of weeks ago.

As far as the new point system goes, I like it. It will add varying strategies but I doubt the racing will improve. Last year drivers complained that it was hard to pass and the new points system will not change that. Hopefully the lower downforce will help by shrinking the splitter even more?


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

The Clash was a good short race today. Last lap pass for the win, Kyle second, Rookie for 3rd and Danica for 4th.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Last lap crash for the win. It would have been cleaner if the leader was not taken out by the winner's teammate.
Oh well ... looks like a another year of Penske racing roughly.

Good to see the 24 and 88 up front for the Daytona 500. Not so good to see that pole winners rarely win the race. But it is a feel good to see an Elliott and an Earnhardt at the front.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NASCAR has clarified the five minute repair rule:
"If the damage requires the car to go behind pit wall or to the garage for repairs, the car will not be allowed to return to the race. Also, if the repairs take longer than the five minutes allowed, the car will not be permitted to return to the race.

Once repairs have been made, a car is still required to maintain the minimum speed determined for that event. Once that has been accomplished, the five-minute clock is reset in case the car needs to come back down pit road."

"Teams will be allowed to correct mechanical or electrical failures that aren't the result of an accident or contact without penalty. Such repairs may be done on pit road or in the garage area, and the five-minute clock will not be in play in those instances."

NASCAR announces updated damaged vehicle policy

It is still strict - but not as bad as the original talk of the rule. Resetting the clock when the car completes a green flag lap at minimum speed allows the cars to continue to compete and make further repairs later in the race without penalty. And allowing repairs for mechanical defects is good.


----------



## codespy (Mar 30, 2006)

Just a FYI before Sunday- Genie Sports search still shows Nascar as Nationwide and Sprint, so for me the only one that works is still the truck series (Camping World). If you use an Autorecord Boolean search with Monster Energy, the Daytona 500 will not be picked up, as the title for the race is "2017 Daytona 500". At least that's what occurs on my HR54 and other HD-DVR's. To make sure, set the recording in the guide if you don't want to miss it. The Duels are running right now. Glad they switched to nighttime a couple years ago so I didn't have to take off of work.......:thumbsup:


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

DISH EPG has "NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Pre Show" and "Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series" on my local Fox station. My "NASCAR Racing" timer on Fox caught the event. Which is surprising ... since in 2015 and 2016 the program didn't match and I had to set a one off timer (and my local Fox changed broadcast channels in the interim).

Always a good thing to check one's timers to make sure what one wants to see is being recorded.


----------



## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

Why doesn't Dish add a motorsports category to Game Finder? I really only care about the cup race itself, and not all the qualifying, practices, or down-series races. But a "NASCAR racing" timer catches all of those and I have to delete them.


----------



## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

Oh, and congratulations to Chase for winning his first cup-level race. I'm expecting big things from that boy this year.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

4HiMarks said:


> Oh, and congratulations to Chase for winning his first cup-level race. I'm expecting big things from that boy this year.


Until Sunday night he is tied for first in points. That is a good position to be in going in to Daytona.

I keep losing my drivers (Mark Martin, Carl Edwards, Jeff Gordon) ... Chase would be a good next driver to follow but he needs to win a race and stay in a position where he could win at least one race a year. I find it harder to follow a driver who does not win. (And I can't get past the personality of some of the winning drivers.)


----------



## 4HiMarks (Jan 21, 2004)

How heartbreaking to run out of gas with 2 laps to go like that. I still think he will win a race sooner rather than later. I was a big fan of his Daddy back in the day. When Bill retired, I started rooting for the guy who took over his ride, and continued on through all the changes of sponsor, team, and car make, but Kasey never seemed to live up to his potential. Even with the Hendrick behemoth behind him. Hopefully Chase will be different. I just wish he wasn't driving a Chevy.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

They were truly demolition derby races.
I do like the stages and the points available. For instance Danica ran close to the front most of the day finishing in 10th in stage 1 and 5th in stage 2. Then she got caught up in an unavoidable wreck ahead of her and was knocked out of the race. She finished in 33rd ? but with the extra points for previous performance in the race and the points she earned in the Clash she is listed in 24th in the standings.

I wish Chase could have won or Ryan Blaney but by the same token I am glad that Kurt won it if either of those 2 could not.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I watched the truck race: 11 drivers OUT before the end of the first stage - 13 finished on the lead lap, six other finishers. 13 OUT at the end of the race.
I watched the Xfinity race: 12 drivers OUT before the end of the first stage - 19 finished on the lead lap, two other finishers. 19 OUT at the end of the race.

I was not looking forward to the cup race. I did not want to see a third of the field out before the first points were awarded. Fortunately the drivers saved the wrecks for later. Daytona is a easy place to get damage that takes more than five minutes to repair. 25 cars finished the race with 16 on the lead lap. That is good. (Still 15 lead lap/15 OUT ... but the outs happened much later in the race.)

Congrats to Ryan Reed for holding off the cup drivers. And Kaz Grala for becoming the youngest winner ever.
And of course congrats to Kurt for getting the elusive win.

It is a shame that some of the damaged cars didn't have more than five minutes of repair time. In past races those drivers could have got a few more laps to improve their positions ... especially those running for the championship. But all the drivers have the same rules. This week Kyle, Dale, Jimmie and Matt lost to the clock. Next week other drivers may be the losers. The playoffs are still "win and you're in" so the low points don't matter for drivers who will (eventually) win.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

I do not know why the drivers and crew chiefs insist on pushing the limit of the speed limit on pit road. Way too many speeding penalties in Atlanta.

The advertisers / TV companies appear to be doing what they said they would do and that is cut down on the commercials and timing of them.
This is from the Jayski.com website for the Atlanta race.
Total race brdcst time 189 Total comm. brdcst time 42
Last year this was a full 1 of every 3 minutes was commercials. This year it is 1 of every 4.5 minutes.

I do like the stages and points for being in the top 10 of them.

I do think the damage time should just be the actual time the car is in the pit stall and not include the getting onto and off of pit road.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I am surprised that the commercial time is reduced - but perhaps without Sprint and with less NASCAR self promotion the actual number can be reduced.

Kevin Harvick should be a fan of the Playoff Point for stage 1 and 2. By the time we get to Richmond the playoff point will be the only thing that matters. The top ten points may be the difference between the 16th place or 17th place driver in points making it into the playoff, but the bottom four drivers in the playoff are usually "also ran" cars anyways.

If NASCAR can accurately report the exact time in and out of the pit I can see them changing the rule. Right now five minutes on pit road is easily measurable with timing loops. Actually measuring the time in the box would require use of the camera system. As the season moves on I am less interested in seeing the time lengthened. It would be bad if a driver missed the 5 minute clock due to a crash in Atlanta but another driver was given 7 minutes for their crash at another course. But in a way that is what NASCAR is doing by using pit in and pit out instead of box in and box out. On courses with a long pit road and a slower speed there is more pit road time and less pit box time to make the repair.

I have not watched this weekend's races (so much for the additional excitement). It will be interesting to see if Kyle gets an encumbered finish. Give the teams an inch and they take more ... just like pit road speed. How close can you get without going over? They hurt themselves when they go over.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Boys have at it. Really. Go for it. If you're mad at someone just walk up to them after the race and throw a punch. No conversation needed. And if some rookie makes a mistake just wait on the track and push his car into the wall under caution. Don't worry about fines or penalties. This is the new NASCAR.

I am disappointed in Kyle for going directly to physical violence to express his anger. But based on his tone of voice at the next race I felt that he at least got a stern talking to. When cornered by Jamie Little (who was not accepting the "everything's great" response) he changed his inflection and "I am happy to be here" almost sounded like "I came close to not being here today". As if he narrowly avoided a sanction.

But it was not long after NASCAR announced that "there will be no retaliation" that professional athlete Austin Dillon retaliated on track under caution. And I don't see how NASCAR declined to issue a penalty for that behavior. Parking Austin for a couple of laps was not a penalty. He was out of the race anyways. NASCAR's refusal to act has put their stamp of approval on the next driver who decides to push another car off of the track under caution.

My non-NASCAR wife saw the incidents and her comment was "throwing punches and wrecking cars in anger is ok but if a measurement on a car is off by a micron they get penalized?" And I had to explain that the cars were off by an inch and a micron, not just a micron (just like pit road speeding isn't 0.001 MPH over the limit, it is 5.001 MPH over the limit). Exceeding tolerances is a serious transgression that leads to fines and suspensions. But blatant violence is ok.

And yes, the two recent incidents are on the low end of the scale. They could have been more violent. Which makes me wonder - where is the line? How far will drivers have to go before NASCAR steps in and say "ok, that is enough"?


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Kyle started it when he door slammed Joey in the end of the straight. Not a fan of Joey as I have seen him purposely push cars out of his way.
Kyle also did not say anything when he approached Joey, just light right into him. Glad Kyle got a knock on the head in the fray.
Definitely should be a fine and keep Austin off the Xfinity races for sure. That was an egregious infraction that anyone can interpret.
If a car passes inspection before the race that should be the end of inspections. If they have to, impound the cars after qualifying them.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Without post race teams would "adjust" at every opportunity. Remember the issues with teams flaring out the side of the cars by pulling in the fenders and slamming their bodies into the side of the car to change aerodynamics? NASCAR put a stop to that. Lugnuts are still in the news - this year it seems teams are willing to give up their position at the end of the race instead of be found with loose lugnuts. Some teams have gambled and lost. I am not sure what the race would be like if there were no post race inspections. Probably a lot of "adjustments" on the first pit stop.

Points racing ???
I have heard a few people commending the younger drivers for leading the points this year. Kyle Larson and Chase Elliot ahead of Martin Truex and veterans Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano with Ryan Blaney. close behind. Are people forgetting we are not points racing? The only points that matter are "playoff points". A race win will get a driver into the playoffs. Most drivers who get in on points don't go far in the "playoffs" (Ryan Newman being a notable exception). I assume as the season goes on more teams will realize that the points do not matter.

With that in mind, I expect the "points racers" to keep pushing for top 10s in stages and the best finish at the end of the race. "Championship" racers will push for stage and race wins and (in the spirit of Kyle Busch) consider second or below a loss. If you can't win the stage or the race why tear up the car racing for points that do not carry past Richmond? Top 10s and top 5s make the sponsors happy ... but the points wash away after Richmond. The "Championship" racers have figured this out and will be there when the racing matters.

Which is all the more reason why Kyle shouldn't be mad at Joey over Vegas. Kyle was not going to win ... and 2nd through 40th give the same number of playoff points. Kyle should be mad at Joey over Phoenix ... but I am not a conspiracy theorist that believes Joey would intentionally wreck to bring out a caution that would ruin Kyle's day.

BTW: Congrats to Newman on Phoenix.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/843619503871328261


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Wow ! the Xfinity race was exceptional Saturday. Lots of passing all thru the field. Sometimes 5 wide.
Hope today will be similar.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

More changes coming. In the All Star race they will have a set of softer tires they can choose. However if they do they have to go to the back of the pack. It will be interesting for sure.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jimmie57 said:


> More changes coming. In the All Star race they will have a set of softer tires they can choose. However if they do they have to go to the back of the pack. It will be interesting for sure.


Top ten in a 10 lap green flag only shootout with all other cars off the track. If any team has burned up their one set earlier in the race they would be stuck in the front and likely passe ... 1st is better than 10th but I expect every crew chief will do the same thing.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The rain in Tennessee falls mainly on the track.

Set your timers for 1pm (ET) Monday on your local Fox affiliate.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Big change for 2018. No Dale Jr. He's retiring at the end of the year.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Big change for 2018. No Dale Jr. He's retiring at the end of the year.


I am not surprised. I was surprised that came back after all those injuries to his head. He has a good looking honey now instead of a steering wheel. Needs to stay sharp for her.

I am guessing that Alex Bauman will step into the 88 next year.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Headline: Danica Patrick in Victory Lane


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Headline: Danica Patrick in Victory Lane


Yep, with her man Ricky. Very glad to see that he won.
She was running a good race. Finished 8th in stage 1 and 15th in stage 2. She had avoided the big wreck until she got hit from behind,


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Good to see Truex win another one ... but still holding my breath for Aric Almirola.

Sorry for your "bad luck" Danica - but you get to go home tonight. At least Joey managed to show an appropriate response to the incident (without favorable editing by Fox Sports).

The traveling medical crew got a workout tonight making sure Aric was taken care of. I look forward to positive updates.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Good to see Truex win another one ... but still holding my breath for Aric Almirola.
> 
> Sorry for your "bad luck" Danica - but you get to go home tonight. At least Joey managed to show an appropriate response to the incident (without favorable editing by Fox Sports).
> 
> The traveling medical crew got a workout tonight making sure Aric was taken care of. I look forward to positive updates.


You must have watched that interview on twitter. It is all jerky and gives the impression or is cut up to shorten it.
I have it recorded from the actual race and I did not see or hear anything that was not appropriate . She has been running very good in the last 2 races and each time was taken out of the race from no fault of her own. I would definitely call that bad luck.
I have looked on all sites that I know of and can not find an update on Aric so far this morning.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I watched the coverage live.

Joey's interview was as he saw the wreck for the first time. He was giving the usual "something broke I'm sorry" interview while seeing the wreck. His tone changed when he saw Danica hit the wall (although he seemed concerned for Danica at the beginning of the interview the concern changed from "I'm sorry you wrecked out" to "I'm sorry that the wreck was that bad"). I remember thinking as he said "oh God" that he might want to save that exclamation for the end the wreck. A few seconds later he saw Aric's hit and the concern shifted. I don't recall him saying anything about how unlucky he was this season. His performance this year certainly was not the focus of the interview.

Danica's interview was all about her and her bad luck. "How do you blow a brake rotor at a track where we don't use the brakes." As she rattled on about her bad year I was screaming at the TV - SAY SOMETHING NICE ABOUT ARIC. She eventually mentioned him with the "his car looked the least damaged of all of ours" answer and showing some concern. But the concern shifted to "one of these times these accidents are not going to go good for me" adding "they are not all fake" (which opens another kettle of worms).

The end of the interview and commentary on the comments can be found here:
Craven concerned over Patrick's comments - ESPN Video

In post race Fox edited the two interviews together, removing most of Danica's "woe is me" and inserting her comments between Joey's comments. Danica's interview needed to be shortened up. Joey did his editing in real time - realizing the importance of his woes (he needs and unencumbered win) were less important than Danica's or Aric's.

Logano & Patrick Accident Quotes


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> I watched the coverage live.
> 
> Joey's interview was as he saw the wreck for the first time. He was giving the usual "something broke I'm sorry" interview while seeing the wreck. His tone changed when he saw Danica hit the wall (although he seemed concerned for Danica at the beginning of the interview the concern changed from "I'm sorry you wrecked out" to "I'm sorry that the wreck was that bad"). I remember thinking as he said "oh God" that he might want to save that exclamation for the end the wreck. A few seconds later he saw Aric's hit and the concern shifted. I don't recall him saying anything about how unlucky he was this season. His performance this year certainly was not the focus of the interview.
> 
> ...


The main thing I took from the interview was that her car and Joey's were a total disaster and that Aric's did not look bad but he was the one that was hurt and why is that.
I am not going to argue with you about this.

I think Nascar has gone a little bit too far with the less downforce on these really high speed race tracks. It is causing an unwanted side effect of the speeds increasing so much in the straightaways that they are using too much brakes to slow them down. Almost everything that caused the cautions was blown tires and then this one with whatever that was that came flying thru the top of the fender of the 22 car. 
They have made major strides in the safety for the drivers,


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

I have edited my comments after reviewing video. If you (or anyone reading) still has the race on their DVR I recommend that you go back and watch the interviews.

(Danica's interview was just over two minutes long and she did not mention Aric until the end ... 100 seconds into the interview. The entire mention of Aric is in the clip in my previous post. Joey's interview was 90 seconds and he mentioned Aric at the beginning as well as later when the replay showed the impact.)


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

*Aric Almirola Released from Kansas Hospital*
*Aric Almirola Released from Kansas Hospital*

*KANSAS CITY, Kan. - (May 14, 2017) - *Aric Almirola, driver of the No. 43 Richard Petty Motorsports Ford, has been released from a local Kansas hospital and will fly back to his home in Mooresville, N.C. today.

Almirola suffered a compression fracture to his T5 Vertebra after a multi-car accident at Kansas Speedway Saturday night. Almirola is mobile and will follow-up with his doctors in Charlotte.

Richard Petty Motorsports will provide further updates when available.

t5 vertebra - Bing images


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

Wow, it is silly season in Nascar. Lots of drivers out, sponsors changing teams and quitting all together.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

NASCAR is in trouble. For the past few years they have been manipulating the sport trying to make races "more exciting". "The Chase" was started to tighten up the field at the end of the season and bring the top 10 then 13 and now 16 closer together to make the end of the season "more exciting" ... and it seemed to work for a while but NASCAR kept tweaking to the point where they now have a system where one race matters way too much. This year's "stage points" has reversed that to some extent granting a massive lead to one driver who dominated the first 26 races ... and for every fan who wanted a "regular season champion" just look at the forced smile on Martin's face. Whoo hoo, I got a trophy.

I believe they have listened too much to "the fans" and "the drivers" over the past couple of years. The fans want this? OK. The drivers want that? OK. There doesn't seem to be anyone willing to stand up and say NO. NASCAR is NASCAR it doesn't need to modify the rules every few weeks to make different factions happy. And the changes have been noticeable enough that they are now explaining "no no, this isn't a rule change, this is a penalty change". When the kids want pizza and ice cream for breakfast lunch and dinner it is up to the parents to say NO and do what is best for the child. NASCAR has given in so much that it is all pizza and ice cream and the kids are getting sick.

The most popular driver in the sport called out NASCAR for their "BS debris cautions" a few years ago. Yet cautions make the race closer so it seems one is thrown whenever there is the hint of the opportunity. Saturday's race was the worst ... not only did they call a caution for tire smoke (early enough that no one was hurt) but they had a hair trigger looking for that late race caution to take the race to overtime. Kyle Busch called NASCAR rigged a couple of years ago when he didn't like a call. NASCAR has done a poor job of proving that the races are not rigged ... especially when they keep having manipulated races.

BTW: Is it Wednesday yet? Is NASCAR sure that Kyle Larson's win is not encumbered? Perhaps Joey's second place finish? Or will it take until Thursday until fans can be 100% sure of who will be in the 16 at Chicago? And if the 16 doesn't change when will the bad taste of the word encumbered leave NASCAR and the media's mouth?

The other major screw up Saturday was the ambulance. I am glad that no one hit the vehicle but with it caused an accident that took out a person contending for a position in the playoffs (who fortunately got it anyways because a previous winner won). It also caused several cars to violate the commitment box ... most who continued to pit and were not penalized (despite a previous race where cars avoiding a safety vehicle in the wrong place were penalized). Some drivers who violated went back out on the track to avoid the violation (the correct move). But it was yet another inconsistency of NASCAR (not to mention waiving the commitment rule but putting Matt on the clock for damage that was NASCAR's fault).

10 more races ... 10 more chances to get it right. Somehow I expect more controversy.

An as far as the driver changes go ... Matt has no ride yet for 2018. Kasey Kahne is finally out of the car (he has not performed in a few years). Danica is finally out of the car (although someone may pick her up for the novelty value - she never lived up to the promise of being a great driver). Smithfield dumped the King!!! (NOBODY dumps the King.) And it appears Aric will be fueling the #10 with bacon. It is good to see Chase headed back to the 9.

Will Danica find a 20th place team so she can finish in the top 30? Will Kasey drive again? Where will Matt end up? Will Greg Biffle return in 2018 and drive the 43 full time or will that be Matt or yet another "young blood" car? Will anyone care?

If the next 10 races are not pristine with no hint of questionable judgement calls and controversy perhaps NASCAR has a chance. But another race or two like Richmond and it will be much harder to recover. God forbid any bad officiating happens at Homestead.

<sigh> There are days I wish I did't like NASCAR and didn't have to care.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> NASCAR is in trouble. For the past few years they have been manipulating the sport trying to make races "more exciting". "The Chase" was started to tighten up the field at the end of the season and bring the top 10 then 13 and now 16 closer together to make the end of the season "more exciting" ... and it seemed to work for a while but NASCAR kept tweaking to the point where they now have a system where one race matters way too much. This year's "stage points" has reversed that to some extent granting a massive lead to one driver who dominated the first 26 races ... and for every fan who wanted a "regular season champion" just look at the forced smile on Martin's face. Whoo hoo, I got a trophy.
> 
> I believe they have listened too much to "the fans" and "the drivers" over the past couple of years. The fans want this? OK. The drivers want that? OK. There doesn't seem to be anyone willing to stand up and say NO. NASCAR is NASCAR it doesn't need to modify the rules every few weeks to make different factions happy. And the changes have been noticeable enough that they are now explaining "no no, this isn't a rule change, this is a penalty change". When the kids want pizza and ice cream for breakfast lunch and dinner it is up to the parents to say NO and do what is best for the child. NASCAR has given in so much that it is all pizza and ice cream and the kids are getting sick.
> 
> ...


I think Matt will be at SHS racing next year. He and Tony are good friends and I can see Smithfield sponsoring him.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Ryan Newman was Tony's friend until they ran out of race cars (sorry bud, the third car goes to Danica) and Gene decided to sponsor Kurt as the new fourth car.

I believe Ryan is still Tony's friend ... but that didn't give him a ride.


----------



## SamC (Jan 20, 2003)

And, as predicted, ratings are down yet again. The new gimmicks were Market rejected, just like the previous ones have been. 

We are seeing the shakeout. In sponsor terms the big issue is not the teams in competition with one another (as with Petty and Hass over Smithfield) but NASCAR as a whole in competition with every other form of possible advertizing. With ratings this low, the return on investment viz buying 10000 billboards or 100 radio jingles or whatever is just not there. So more and more sponsors are becoming ex-sponsors. 

What NASCAR will look like, after another 2 or 3 years of ratings losses and yet more Market rejected gimmicks, will be shocking. The truck series, which is going to go to a spec engine, will probably die out soon. In the big series, we will see teams just shut down and go away.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

SamC said:


> And, as predicted, ratings are down yet again. The new gimmicks were Market rejected, just like the previous ones have been.
> 
> We are seeing the shakeout. In sponsor terms the big issue is not the teams in competition with one another (as with Petty and Hass over Smithfield) but NASCAR as a whole in competition with every other form of possible advertizing. With ratings this low, the return on investment viz buying 10000 billboards or 100 radio jingles or whatever is just not there. So more and more sponsors are becoming ex-sponsors.
> 
> What NASCAR will look like, after another 2 or 3 years of ratings losses and yet more Market rejected gimmicks, will be shocking. The truck series, which is going to go to a spec engine, will probably die out soon. In the big series, we will see teams just shut down and go away.


I don't know about the ratings but the racing is much better now than I can remember. The stages are a big plus.
Jr sounded off a few weeks ago about the salaries of the drivers being so high and said he was one of them. It is costing way too much to operate these huge teams and high salaries.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

The Petty vs Smithfield issue us turning in to a war. Old school King doing business on a handshake vs corporate office wanting to sponsor a better car. They are professional enough to finish out the year but it looks more like a divorce or carriage dispute than a parting of ways.

I forgot that Aric was leaving and Bubba was coming for the 43 next year. And that Kurt does not have a ride. Perhaps the new guys are cheaper or more marketable.

I am reminded of how secretive NASCAR has become. No attendance figures since they are down. No winnings reported. It is a bunker mentality. 

43 car fields cut to 40 or less and a lot of talk about cost saving measures. Yes, there are problems with the sport. Even the die hard "fan boys" in the media are noticing the problems.

It is Wednesday. How many in NASCAR are holding their breath untill they are sure last week's race was not encumbered? It is a shame that is even a possibility.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> The Petty vs Smithfield issue us turning in to a war. Old school King doing business on a handshake vs corporate office wanting to sponsor a better car. They are professional enough to finish out the year but it looks more like a divorce or carriage dispute than a parting of ways.
> 
> I forgot that Aric was leaving and Bubba was coming for the 43 next year. And that Kurt does not have a ride. Perhaps the new guys are cheaper or more marketable.
> 
> ...


Yep, if they are caught cheating after the race they should go to the rear of the pack , period. Loss of win, position, money, etc.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

If it were only for "cheating". I hate that term in NASCAR. Every rule violation is not "cheating". I have seen some cheating, such as body slamming the car during pit stops to change the aerodynamics, pulling the skirts out, perforating the tires and excessive burnouts done to damage the cars. But out of spec should be considered a rule violation, not cheating. It is a derogatory word that makes "pushing the limits" sound worse than it actually is. (And then "the world" sees NASCAR as embracing cheaters.) I wish no one used that term.

I like "encumbered" because it does not change the race outcome, it only applies a penalty that makes it worth less. Joey Logano still won his race and has a nice trophy. He just doesn't have the points, money and playoff position that win would normally give him due to the rules violation.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> If it were only for "cheating". I hate that term in NASCAR. Every rule violation is not "cheating". I have seen some cheating, such as body slamming the car during pit stops to change the aerodynamics, pulling the skirts out, perforating the tires and excessive burnouts done to damage the cars. But out of spec should be considered a rule violation, not cheating. It is a derogatory word that makes "pushing the limits" sound worse than it actually is. (And then "the world" sees NASCAR as embracing cheaters.) I wish no one used that term.
> 
> I like "encumbered" because it does not change the race outcome, it only applies a penalty that makes it worth less. Joey Logano still won his race and has a nice trophy. He just doesn't have the points, money and playoff position that win would normally give him due to the rules violation.


But he got that at the expense of the next in line that was in the rules.
Call it what you want to but it is cheating when you design a part to shift out of spec in the race and he should lose all of what he was given. I look for encumbered to go away in the next year. That is just total BS. No other sport that I know of allows you to keep your space if you don't stay within the rules.


----------



## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jimmie57 said:


> No other sport that I know of allows you to keep your space if you don't stay within the rules.


Most sports find and adjudicate their problems as the occur ... not days after the event has ended.

When wins in other sports are vacated due to violations found later are the wins assigned to the opposing team and the record books recalculated? When championships are vacated does the second place team get a belated trophy?

Based on this page when the NCAA vacates a game the game "doesn't count". For example, Syracuse's 34-3 record for 2011 is officially 0-3.

Moving everyone else up is messy. If one is going to skip drivers who "don't count" one might as well give the Xfinity "winner's trophy" to the top finishing non-cup driver in the race.


----------



## jimmie57 (Jun 26, 2010)

James Long said:


> Most sports find and adjudicate their problems as the occur ... not days after the event has ended.
> 
> When wins in other sports are vacated due to violations found later are the wins assigned to the opposing team and the record books recalculated? When championships are vacated does the second place team get a belated trophy?
> 
> ...


I think they should do that. The cup drivers are racing for fun. Other racing events run several classes of cars and each class has a winner. They should do that with the classes of drivers. When the kids are growing up they play in an age group and are not pitted against the older more experienced players. The younger drivers / lower classes get so much less money it is ridiculous. The cup drivers are taking away their living money just to gain an advantage for the next day's race or just to have fun.
Only score Xfinity or Truck series drivers in their respective races.


----------

