# Sad Panda :( Dishplayer 721



## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

Well, I wish I had found some more info on the DP 721 before I shelled out the $$ for it.

Coming from the land of Tivo and UltimateTV, I am sorely dissapointed with the DP 721. With the addition of a couple simple features, one of which would require less than 20 lines of code, the DP would be on the level of Tivo or UTV. Sadly, it seems Dish has dropped the ball. From reading these forums, it seems to be the norm, as opposed to the exception.

Primarily, the fact that you can not record shows by title is utterly and hopelessly ridiculous. I fail to understand why this simple, base feature was left out of the 721. This feature (called Season pass on Tivo, and just a normal feature on UTV) is one of, if not *the* defining feature of a PVR. I hadn't thought to check this before purchasing, because I thought any PVR would include this feature... and they do! Except for Dishplayer. The added insult here is, I could write a function to accomplish this in less than 20 lines of code (I assume DP, since it's on Linux, is written in C++). I will even PROVIDE the code or pseudocode for inclusion in the next DP software release. It would be trivially easy to add this feature, yet it's no where to be found.

The timer functions of the 721 are archaic; worthy of my vintage 1992 Mitsubishi SuperVHS VCR. Hello? This is an advanced piece of machinery here, I expect much more out of a $500 PVR than I do out of my VCR... yet I'm given basic VCR functionality. Why even have the EEPG if it's not used for the PVR? Especially when it is so simple to do so.

I hear of the 64 timer limit... as I haven't reached this yet, I can't comment, but given the fact you can't record series, but have to input each and every time/date you want to record, this limit is utterly ridiculous.

My other major gripe is not software related, but aesthetic. It's silver. Why? All of my components are a nice matte black, so they don't shine like a becon in the night when I watch movies in my dark room... yet here is the Dishplayer, in all it's silver glory, glaring at me out of the darkness... and in all that, there isn't even a frigging CLOCK on it... If you are going to make the stupid Dishplayer a guady silver, at least make it a functional silver... "Hey! Look at me! I'm a clock!" but no... I have to tolerate this ugly, stupid silver in the midst of my nice, sedate black stack of electronics.

Did Dishnetwork put any thought into the design of this at all?? No... I'd say not.

All in all, I'm really sorry I bought the Dishplayer now. I should have opted for a stand alone Tivo. If they would add a "season pass" type thing to the DP, I would be much happier, and could live with the other obviously boneheaded design decision... but this one missing feature makes the dishplayer nothing but a glorified VCR, not worth even $100. What a hunk of crap.


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## the_beaver (Feb 15, 2003)

dare i say: all the information in your 
laundry list of shortcomings was out 
there for you to research before you
made the purchase---ESPECIALLY 
pictures of the unit in all its silver glory!


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## Neil Derryberry (Mar 23, 2002)

The dishplayer is a completely different beast... what you mean is either DishPro 721 or DishPVR 721.

And yes, all of these temporary shortcomings weren't news to anyone who read a product slick... the pictures of the unit have been available for a long time.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

I knew about the silverness of it... doesn't mean I'm happy with it. But the other stuff, I did some research on it prior to that, but as I said, most of it was questions I never thought to ask, as I figured those basic features were included with any respectable companies PVR.

I was greiviously mistaken, obviously.


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## Big Bob (May 13, 2002)

--Clenching fists, repeating to self--
"don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll"


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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

I like the silver color. My Dvd/vcr combo is silver ,my computer is silver. My new tv in the master bedroom is silver. Its just a return to the 80s when electronic devices were silver also. Just be glad this time they didn't include the walnut grain on these devices like they did 20 years ago. I just hope they dont do retro 70s with bright red and orange tvs and other electronic devices.


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## tampa8 (Mar 30, 2002)

Most of us are not falling for this thread, but very very nice try.


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## MrAkai (Aug 10, 2002)

If it's not worth $100 to ya, I'll take it off your hands for that much 

-S


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

He may not have known about these forums before making the purchase. I would say that most do not do any research at all before purchasing a receiver. Also if a receiver first comes out it is hard to find any information about that receiver because it has not been out long enough to get any real information about it. 

Dish Network probably wanted to be different by offering this receiver in silver. My brother has a Philips tv that is also silver. I do not mind the silver color myself in a way (it does stand out from everything else) but in another way I like all of my receivers to all match in color and not clash. Perhaps it was a way of Dish distinguishing this receiver from the others and to see what the public thought of this.

On the other hand one should try to do some research and see other people's reactions before spending a huge amount of money on a receiver or anything else and to ask around for some second opinions on a product.


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> The dishplayer is a completely different beast... what you mean is either DishPro 721 or DishPVR 721.
> 
> And yes, all of these temporary shortcomings weren't news to anyone who read a product slick... the pictures of the unit have been available for a long time.


You're right, I'm sorry, I do mean the DishPVR 721; I wasn't aware there was a difference. As for reading the product slick, they made no mention of the lack of features that are found on other PVRs (Such as the "season pass" type thing). In fact, there is a derth of information on the 721, beyond the marketing hype on Dish's website... other than that, I couldn't find a whole lot on the 721. I only found these forums AFTER I had bought it.

Why do you say they are "temporary?" Have they announced somewhere that these features were going to be fixed/added? Even after reading these forums, I have seen no official word on what's happening, just a bunch of people talking/hoping, like on any other forum.



> Just be glad this time they didn't include the walnut grain on these devices like they did 20 years ago. I just hope they dont do retro 70s with bright red and orange tvs and other electronic devices.


Good point... I'd probably have to hide it under a blanket or something if that were the case.



> He may not have known about these forums before making the purchase. I would say that most do not do any research at all before purchasing a receiver. Also if a receiver first comes out it is hard to find any information about that receiver because it has not been out long enough to get any real information about it.


That's correct... I did do some research for info; as much as I could find. But it wasn't much, and most of it was sat sites SELLING the thing, with the same marketing hype found on Dish's site. I spent probably a good 10 or so hours over the course of several days mousing around for info. This is the only place that I've found that acknowledges the severe shortcoming of this unit. Every other site I went to made no mention of it.

I'm sorry if ya'll feel like this is a troll; it's not. It's me expressing my extreme displeasure with the lack of features on a $500 PVR unit, that every other PVR on the market has, even the $100 ones for your computer and the $89 refurbs from Tivo. If it was a new or complicated feature set I mentioned, I'd be fine with that... but it's a staple of a PVR and Dish overlooked it/didn't care. When I called Dish on the issue, they said it was the first time anyone has ever asked for that feature. Obviously, that's a total, utter lie. I spoke to another CSR the following day, and she told me there won't be any feature additions to the 721 at this point. Whether she just didn't know what she was talking about, or it's true, I don't know. However, I suspect the former. But none the less, the 721 is unusable as a true PVR, and it's just a glorified VCR with a hard drive instead of a tape at this point in time. My DVHS I used 4 years ago from Dish does the exact same thing as this one for the most part. I expected far more with 4 years of evolution.


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## BobaBird (Mar 31, 2002)

Inaba said:


> Primarily, the fact that you can not record shows by title is utterly and hopelessly ridiculous. I fail to understand why this simple, base feature was left out of the 721. This feature (called Season pass on Tivo, and just a normal feature on UTV) is one of, if not *the* defining feature of a PVR.


I don't know about it being all that simple but I do agree it's what puts the Personal in PVR. Not necessarily name-based recording by itself but certainly when you take it another step to record Suggestions.


> ...I thought any PVR would include this feature... and they do! Except for Dishplayer.


The the Model 7100/7200 (aka DISHPlayer) does have limited name-based recording.


> but given the fact you can't record series, but have to input each and every time/date you want to record


If you press Select instead of Record on the EPG you get the option to create a recurring timer (daily, weekly, M-F). You can also go to the timer list and edit an upcoming one-time event into a recurring one.


> My other major gripe is not software related, but aesthetic. It's silver. Why?


Supposedly to distinguish their higher-end receivers. This is one bandwagon I wish they hadn't jumped on.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

I really don't understand what the big freaking deal is about the color. If it bothers you that much, put it in a cabinet where you can't see it. Or just paint it black. There are enough legitimate issues with the thing - if you're biggest gripe is with the color then I'll gladly take it off your hands because that means yours has name-based recording, no 64 timer limit, and no bugs.

Dennis


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## the_beaver (Feb 15, 2003)

sad panda...
i think maybe if you spent a little 
more time on learning how to 
utilize the features currently 
available on the 721 instead of 
lamenting over features NOT 
available, you would find that 
the 721 is not "unusable as a PVR" 
as you believe :nono2: , but is 
feature rich and a user-friendly way 
to time-shift programming---the 
extra cost you are whining about 
can be chalked up to the hardware 
features of the 721: the B I G HD 
and the second tuner in the unit...


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> If you press Select instead of Record on the EPG you get the option to create a recurring timer (daily, weekly, M-F). You can also go to the timer list and edit an upcoming one-time event into a recurring one.


I know... but the problem is that most of my shows (especially during the summer) are on at irregular times and vary from day to day or week to week. A good example of this is Stargate SG-1 on Sci-Fi... there's no frigging telling when they are going to run an episode of it.

Another good example of this is when they preempt or delay a show... then your 721 ends up recording junk (which just happened to me yesterday with 2 shows)... if it used name based recording, it would have known to not record that time slot, and instead record it an hour later.



> I really don't understand what the big freaking deal is about the color. If it bothers you that much, put it in a cabinet where you can't see it. Or just paint it black. There are enough legitimate issues with the thing - if you're biggest gripe is with the color then I'll gladly take it off your hands because that means yours has name-based recording, no 64 timer limit, and no bugs.


I said it's my other major gripe, not my primary one. Regardless... all my components are in a stack to the left of my TV on a rack... the rack is open. I'm looking at a whole HDTV wood cabinet, but even then, the front of the unit will be visible. I realize that silver may be the current trend, but silver is stupid from a home theatre standpoint. It draws attention away from the screen. They should have offered two versions... one in traditional black and another in guady silver.



> i think maybe if you spent a little more time on learning how to utilize the features currently available on the 721 instead of lamenting over features NOT available, you would find that the 721 is not "unusable as a PVR" as you believe , but is feature rich and a user-friendly way to time-shift programming---the
> extra cost you are whining about can be chalked up to the hardware features of the 721: the B I G HD and the second tuner in the unit...


Feature rich? The 721 doesn't have that many features not found on any $49 VCR at Wal-Mart. Unless you mean the games they include. You can pause live TV and skip around; that's great... that's exactly what a PVR should do. The record feature set is the same as any mid-level VCR you can buy today. The BIG hard drive is nice... but for the price, I'd much rather have a small hard drive and upgrade it myself to a pair of 160 GB drives. The second tuner is not a 'special' feature of the 721... it's standard fare on any PVR for Sat worth it's while. UTV has it. DirecTivo has it. Now, if the 721 had the 921's 1 cable 2 tuner deal, THEN that'd be something special... From reading the forums here, I believe the 721 may eventually be able to do that, but it can't right now, so that point is moot.

I think that E*'s best move right now would be to release the source code to the features of the PVR and allow you to modify it. I realize this would probably cause a problem with hacking the signal, so if it's possible to decouple everything but the U/I from the sourcecode, and just release the U/I portion, they would be leaps and bounds ahead of even Tivo in the U/I market.

I can just imagine how cool the U/I on the 721 would be if there were hundreds of us working on making usable and feature rich. You'd be able to pick and choose what you would want as a feature set, as well as the look and feel. It would blow Tivo out of the water.

I know there may be problems with that, but I think those could be overcome fairly easily, and position the DishPVR series as the king of PVRs. I just want to reiterate that I'm not saying the 721 is a piece of junk; it's not. It has LOADS of potential... but E* is missing the boat with their lackluster development and lack of communication with the end users. Engage the passion of the end-users in the unit, and they will do the work for you... for free. I'm suprised more companies haven't realized this yet.


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## UpOnTheMountain (Mar 24, 2002)

Sign me up for the 721 open source project !



Inaba, you are so right about the potential benefit for ALL involved. If the 721 team could go open source for just the user interface portion of the code. And then have freeware emulator ... wow just think of the improvements that could be made. The 721 team then could easily just "steal"/borrow the bug free results and patch it in themselves. They could even easily "choose" which enhancements they want to add ... to make sure it does not change the "image" of the unit they want to present.
Even if it were a "beta" type of cooperation. Where their was a non-disclosure agreement and a very controlled enrollment into the program. ...

As I said ... Sign me up !!


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## DmitriA (Aug 6, 2002)

Amen to that! Not a chance in hell it will happen though :-(


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Inaba said:


> I said it's my other major gripe, not my primary one. Regardless... all my components are in a stack to the left of my TV on a rack... the rack is open. I'm looking at a whole HDTV wood cabinet, but even then, the front of the unit will be visible. I realize that silver may be the current trend, but silver is stupid from a home theatre standpoint. It draws attention away from the screen. They should have offered two versions... one in traditional black and another in guady silver.


I apologize if I came off a bit harsh, but you're not the only one who has posted about it and it was more of a general vent about the complaints. Yes, it would've been nice if they made black an option, but I still don't see the problem. I don't have a home theater - I have a 27-inch TV on top of the cabinet with all my components behind a glass. Yes, the 721 is the only one that's not black, but you know what? I don't even notice it because I'm watching the TV, not the components.



Inaba said:


> Feature rich? The 721 doesn't have that many features not found on any $49 VCR at Wal-Mart. Unless you mean the games they include. You can pause live TV and skip around; that's great... that's exactly what a PVR should do. The record feature set is the same as any mid-level VCR you can buy today.


Just curious, but do they actually make VCRs with program guides built in? I honestly don't know because I've been using PVRs for 3 years now so I don't know what the trends are in VCRs.

(sarcasm)I would love to a VCR, especially for $49, that allows you to just view a program guide to set timers. Then it would also store a list of all the shows you have recorded so you can just pick them off a list to watch them, and instantly find the correct point of the tape to start watching.(/sarcasm)



Inaba said:


> I know there may be problems with that, but I think those could be overcome fairly easily, and position the DishPVR series as the king of PVRs. I just want to reiterate that I'm not saying the 721 is a piece of junk; it's not. It has LOADS of potential... but E* is missing the boat with their lackluster development and lack of communication with the end users.


I completely agree here. The 721 is so close to being an awesome unit, but it just misses.

Dennis


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## Jordanis (Mar 18, 2003)

dbronstein said:


> Just curious, but do they actually make VCRs with program guides built in? I honestly don't know because I've been using PVRs for 3 years now so I don't know what the trends are in VCRs.


Actually VCR program guides have been around for a while. In several forms.

The first was called VCR Plus if i remember right, and works almost identical to the current 721's system. To program a particular show, you simply looked up the 6 digit show number in your local newspaper, TV Guide, or other participating magazine. Once you type the number in, your VCR was set to record that show.

Now they didn't have recurring timers, or a fancy onscreen guide (though I recall a model which did have a phone hookup to download a version, but I can't recall which company atm), but other than the onscreen this is all the 721's timer really is, a fancy VCR+ system.

That's where the problem lies as well. Since the numbers have to be printed WAY ahead of time (due to newspaper print dates), they are often incorrect if something such as Presidential newsbroadcasts come up. With DISH, it appears as if most of these 'corrections' can be caught if a program moves from time A to time B, it's still most likely a manual process into the onscreen guide.

Ideally, all the TV stations would utilize a central programming guide system which would then feed into every Sattellite, Interactive TV, internet, Cable or even print guide mediums.

Of course that isn't going to happen anytime soon 

Named timers have MUCH more programming involved if they were to 'add' it to existing units. It probably would require some sort of text-string sniffer throughout the database of the guide to find the program you wanted, then find the correct time/date to program it. Of course it'd have to have some sort of automatic update to catch changes as well as the initial programing of the event.

There are other routes that could also be written/coded to allow named timers, however neither one is a simple few lines of code, in fact most forms would require a 2ndary system of some sort to be accessable to make it universal among all players.

I believe this is how the other SAT companies do it. They probably have a central database of all programs , with each program coded with some sort of unique identifier number to be able to index things like Title of Show, Theme of Show (if you wanted to record say all 'baseball games', Premier or Rerun flag etc.. Then when thier receivers request a recurring event of say "Stargate, New Episodes", it looks up and finds all shows with SG1's identifier and the Premeir flag set to True, then downloads all those times/days into the receiver. Probably several times a day it also goes out and looks for 'changes' as well.

It wouldn't be very hard to create such a system, but the problem lies in adapting existing receivers to work with it, not to mention the time and cost involved in maintaining such a system.

Heh I kinda rambled on here  But to answer your question, YES VCR's have had guides of a sort for several years.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Jordanis said:


> Actually VCR program guides have been around for a while. In several forms.
> 
> The first was called VCR Plus if i remember right, and works almost identical to the current 721's system. To program a particular show, you simply looked up the 6 digit show number in your local newspaper, TV Guide, or other participating magazine. Once you type the number in, your VCR was set to record that show.
> 
> ...


I'm well aware of VCR+ and it's not even close to being the same thing. The guide is not in the VCR, and as you said, they aren't recurring timers. The 721 doesn't have name-base recording, but it's still miles better than anything in any VCR that I've ever seen.

As for pre-emptions affecting the guide, Tivo and Replay have the exact same problem. If the guide is not updated, even name-based recording can't adjust for it. My experience with the 721 compared to Replay is the 721 is just as good as Replay in getting updates into the guide. I've never used Tivo so I don't know how well it does.

Dennis


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

> I apologize if I came off a bit harsh, but you're not the only one who has posted about it and it was more of a general vent about the complaints. Yes, it would've been nice if they made black an option, but I still don't see the problem. I don't have a home theater - I have a 27-inch TV on top of the cabinet with all my components behind a glass. Yes, the 721 is the only one that's not black, but you know what? I don't even notice it because I'm watching the TV, not the components.


I have a room dedicated to my home theatre, centered around a 65" HDTV.. I like everything to be neat and pleasing looking. The silver looks cheap next to the matte black of everything else. It looks like something I bought at K-Mart. I am seriously thinking of hiding it somewhere... since it's got a UHF remote, it's actually feasible to do so.



> I'm well aware of VCR+ and it's not even close to being the same thing. The guide is not in the VCR, and as you said, they aren't recurring timers. The 721 doesn't have name-base recording, but it's still miles better than anything in any VCR that I've ever seen.


My 12 year old Mitsubishi SVHS VCR (which cost almost $1000 back then) has reoccuring timers. I can set it for daily, weekly, mon-fri. No, it does not have an EPG, but the EPG is a defining feature of Satellite (and now Digital Cable) and I don't feel that it's a defining feature of a PVR. Is it nice to be able to find something ahead of time and click record? Yea, it's nice... but it really isn't that much different than a VCR. Whereas name based recording is a whole 'nother ball game entirely. It's the difference between dumb recording (which is all the 721 does) and smart recording (which every other PVR on the market does).



> As for pre-emptions affecting the guide, Tivo and Replay have the exact same problem. If the guide is not updated, even name-based recording can't adjust for it. My experience with the 721 compared to Replay is the 721 is just as good as Replay in getting updates into the guide. I've never used Tivo so I don't know how well it does.


You're right, a preempt that's not listed in the guide will still get botched up on any system that relies on the EPG. That's fine, and understandable. However, for the past two years that I've used a PVR with name based recording, I can't recall a single instance where I got something recorded that I didn't want recorded. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but nothing sticks out in my mind. Within 3 days of having my 721, I've now had 2 seperate shows hosed up because of timer based recording.

I'm also starting to see a grave deficiency in the way timers are listed and programs are grouped. I'm very confused when I look at the timers in the queue, and it's hard to see which ones are single recordings and which ones are reoccuring. Perhaps I'm missing something, and I will investigate it further. But from my now 7 days experience with the 721, it's entirely too complicated for Joe-Average, and does not provide either enough information, or the proper information.

As for name based recording, here's some pseduo C++ code that will accomplish rudimentary name based recording. I'm doing this off the top of my head, but with a little tweaking, it would work. I'm also assuming that the whole software package is written in C++.


```
void nameBasedRecording(char *programName)
{
	epgCount = 0;
	while (epgArrayEntry[epgCount])
	{
		if (strcmp(epgArrayEntry[epgCount][programName], programName))
			setRecordTimer(epgArrayEntry[epgCount][timeDate]);
		epgCount++;
	}
}
```
All you would need to do is fire that routine once every 30 minutes. That's literally all you would need to do to add name based recording. 5 lines of code... With more code, you could optimize it quite a bit. If I were really programming that feature, I would probably go about it in a more complex way... but the above would work just fine.

I realize there is some additional clean up and display code that would need to be written to make this feasible... but that is *trivial*. That is why I am upset over the lack of this feature. It would be a trivial feature to add, and it's not there.

I wonder what it would take to get E* to open up the U/I code on the 721. If they did that, they would have my business for the rest of my natural life for being cool 

(The hacking community is what made the Tivo so successful. If it wasn't for the openness of the Tivo in the beginning, TIVO would have failed miserably. E* is poised to take advantage of the resources Tivo had in the beginning. But they appear to be dropping the ball.)


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## Allamand (Dec 13, 2002)

Dosn't the 721 store the Guide info on the HD? If this is the case, how then would the 721 know of a change in the guide for an upcoming show, say for later that day, that gets delaid cause of a news report? Never happen. Only if the Guide is always being updated, thus I think that is the reason behind now "Season Ticket"

My biggest grips over the 721 have been the simple logical errors.. I don't have a lot of them in my head, but one day I think I'll write them down  Thinks like..When I press menu, go and veiw something, I want it to return me to the menu!! I can exit the menu on my own accord, or when I go to Timers from a search and then delete a timer, it exits out all the way, when it should go back to the search (this is an example, not sure if this is the case as I to lazy to look, but know this happens somewhere like this)

Realy over all, it works great within the limits of the Dish guide.


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Inaba said:


> My 12 year old Mitsubishi SVHS VCR (which cost almost $1000 back then) has reoccuring timers. I can set it for daily, weekly, mon-fri. No, it does not have an EPG, but the EPG is a defining feature of Satellite (and now Digital Cable) and I don't feel that it's a defining feature of a PVR. Is it nice to be able to find something ahead of time and click record? Yea, it's nice... but it really isn't that much different than a VCR. Whereas name based recording is a whole 'nother ball game entirely. It's the difference between dumb recording (which is all the 721 does) and smart recording (which every other PVR on the market does).


I disagree about the EPG not being a defining feature of a PVR. That's the whole point of it - you just pick and choose what you want to record with the click of a button. Then you can just click a few more buttons and watch what you recorded. Try doing either of those on a VCR. I know VCRs have had recurring timer options for years - mine does and it's a cheap one I bought 7-8 years ago.

My point is still that saying the 721 isn't much better than a $49 VCR is just a completely ridiculous statement.



Inaba said:


> You're right, a preempt that's not listed in the guide will still get botched up on any system that relies on the EPG. That's fine, and understandable. However, for the past two years that I've used a PVR with name based recording, I can't recall a single instance where I got something recorded that I didn't want recorded. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but nothing sticks out in my mind. Within 3 days of having my 721, I've now had 2 seperate shows hosed up because of timer based recording.


I totally agree - the 721 should have name-based recording.



Inaba said:


> I'm also starting to see a grave deficiency in the way timers are listed and programs are grouped. I'm very confused when I look at the timers in the queue, and it's hard to see which ones are single recordings and which ones are reoccuring. Perhaps I'm missing something, and I will investigate it further. But from my now 7 days experience with the 721, it's entirely too complicated for Joe-Average, and does not provide either enough information, or the proper information.


I agree that they could improve the user interface quite a bit. There's a lot they could do to make it much more user-friendly.

Dennis


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## dbronstein (Oct 21, 2002)

Allamand said:


> Dosn't the 721 store the Guide info on the HD? If this is the case, how then would the 721 know of a change in the guide for an upcoming show, say for later that day, that gets delaid cause of a news report? Never happen. Only if the Guide is always being updated, thus I think that is the reason behind now "Season Ticket"


The 721 guide is updated nightly, just like on Tivo and Replay. If there's something that delays shows at the last minute, Tivo won't get it either.

Dennis


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2003)

dbronstein said:


> I agree that they could improve the user interface quite a bit. There's a lot they could do to make it much more user-friendly.


And that's a lot of things that WOULD get done if they open-source the UI....


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## Allamand (Dec 13, 2002)

So the 721 isn't like the 508! Thats great to know. 

Why isn't it possible for Dish to have the 508 then act as the 721 does? In respect to the nightly guide updates, I'm assuming that the 721 does this without have to be turned off, as the 508 needs to be shut off. That is what should be he same, as I never power off the 508.


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

> I totally agree - the 721 should have name-based recording


Tivo hold the patent on it. I am sure they are not giving away the license. The DP had a less capable form because MS has an agreement with Tivo and brought it to the DP code via THEIR license. Who knows how much more expensive the 721 would have been with this license. Bottom line is I have NEVER missed a show I wanted to see on our 721. Sure I have had to delete some shows I didn't want, but with 90 hrs of record time (double the DireTivo out of the box), so what.

Tivo, UltimateTV, Replay are ALL subject to inaccurate guides. Just ask the folks in TX with Tivo that missed some of the last Buffy episodes because the Maverick games bumped it so the Tivo guides missed it. Some of them came looking for tape copies from the "lousy" 721.

LOTS of high end manuf going with the silver line! But then again, what do Sony, Marantz, JVC, Denon and Yamaha know about producing equipment!!!! What about those champaign colored units out there!


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## Inaba (Jun 20, 2003)

Randy_B said:


> Tivo hold the patent on it. I am sure they are not giving away the license. The DP had a less capable form because MS has an agreement with Tivo and brought it to the DP code via THEIR license. Who knows how much more expensive the 721 would have been with this license. Bottom line is I have NEVER missed a show I wanted to see on our 721. Sure I have had to delete some shows I didn't want, but with 90 hrs of record time (double the DireTivo out of the box), so what.


So you're saying the "record by name" is a patented feature? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've seen more ridiculous things patented, but I find it hard to believe something like that would be patented (well, actually, no I don't find it hard to believe it's patented, but I can't believe it could be enforced).

Again, I've seen stupider things happen, so I'm not disbelieving you... but I'm sure prior art could be found long before Tivo was on the scene.

Another thing the 721 needs to do is group multiple shows of the same name into one heading, which expands when you click on it...


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## Randy_B (Apr 23, 2002)

> Another thing the 721 needs to do is group multiple shows of the same name into one heading, which expands when you click on it


or providing "folders" would be good as well.

I am sure someone else here can confirm Tivo's patent on name based recording.

What is nutty is that NetFlix was just given a patent on renting over the net!!! Not just DVDs, but also music and video games. Patent Office is out of whack.


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