# Why would anyone buy a receiver?



## westfield60 (Jan 4, 2006)

Just a question. I upgraded to the VIP211 receiver recently and noticed that Dish Network charges me a $6.00 leasing fee on the receiver. I am leasing this receiver for 18 months (contract) and including the initial $49.00, so that totals $157.00.

However I've seen posts here from people who buy the receiver (most from Ebay) and in looking at Ebay this morning most of the 211 receivers sell for about $250.00. Why would someone spend $250.00 to buy the receiver when leasing costs them $157.00.

Am I missing something? Also don't receivers become almost obselete in a few years when they come out with better units, so why buy?


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Even worse when you consider that IF this is a 2nd receiver on your accound you'd pay a 2nd receiver fee whether you own or lease, the cost per month would be the same.

I can't see a lot of incentive for owning receivers these days either.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

This is a recent phenomenon. I don't think it makes sense to own a 622 for the reasons you state. However, I recently bought a new 625 on ebay for $182.50 (I sold a 721 for $200 to pay for it. ). So in my case, I came out slightly ahead and am not locked into a commitment


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## CABill (Mar 20, 2005)

You didn't mention what else you have on the account, but if the 211 is your only receiver, someone that buys theirs doesn't have to pay that $6/month you pay to lease yours. The purchaser wouldn't come out ahead until near the end of the 3rd year. Unless as an "owner" he decided to drop his subcription to some minimal locals only or nothing at all. With a lease, you return the equipment if you stop the subscription or don't maintain DishFAMILY+. A snowbird owner can drop their subscription during the winter.

If you agreed to HD Bronze for 18 months, that is $900 plus the $108 in lease fees. You could walk away by paying $13.33 for each month remaining on the 18 months. If you thought FIOS might be available to you in 9 months, you might be better off with a purchase, ignoring any resale value in the 211. There could be lots of reasons to be opposed to an 18 month commit.

Another reason some buy is DISH wasn't allowing existing subs to lease more than one ViP receiver (and it would be cheaper to buy the 211 than a 622).


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## topom (Jan 4, 2004)

westfield60 said:


> Just a question. I upgraded to the VIP211 receiver recently and noticed that Dish Network charges me a $6.00 leasing fee on the receiver. I am leasing this receiver for 18 months (contract) and including the initial $49.00, so that totals $157.00.
> 
> However I've seen posts here from people who buy the receiver (most from Ebay) and in looking at Ebay this morning most of the 211 receivers sell for about $250.00. Why would someone spend $250.00 to buy the receiver when leasing costs them $157.00.
> 
> Am I missing something? Also don't receivers become almost obselete in a few years when they come out with better units, so why buy?


HDMe:

What you are missing is that customers like me with 3 HDTV's and currently running a PVR921 and 2-6000Us that want to upgrade to MPEG-4 can only get a lease deal on 1 Mpeg 4 receiver per year. So, I want the ViP 622 and will lease that unit for the $299 deal - $200 rebate. I have gone through multiple conversations with Dish and they wont budge on additional receivers. So, I plan to buy a 2-211s from ebay for 250 and will be able to sell the 2-6000U's for at least 175 a piece (as they are still the most stable receiver for HDTV that Dish has ever made).

It does suck, but I have been looking very hard into my options, and unfortunately I am stuck if i want my HD locals and ESPN2HD - i need MPEG-4. I refuse to go back to Com(unist)cast and D* doesnt have as good a product. Until the day that FIOS is available, my options are limited. I guess that all those sales on 211-s are for folks with multiple HDTVs and who want MPEG-4.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

You won't ever get the $157 you spent leasing back.

Someone who buys the receiver has a good chance of reselling it.

Buying it does not bind you to a contract.

Buying it allows you to subscribe to lower than minimum required programming that leased equipment must have.

And if one were to lease only 1 receive through the dish upgrade, they'd be charge the lease fee.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

topom said:


> HDMe:
> 
> What you are missing is that customers like me with 3 HDTV's and currently running a PVR921 and 2-6000Us that want to upgrade to MPEG-4 can only get a lease deal on 1 Mpeg 4 receiver per year. So, I want the ViP 622 and will lease that unit for the $299 deal - $200 rebate. I have gone through multiple conversations with Dish and they wont budge on additional receivers. So, I plan to buy a 2-211s from ebay for 250 and will be able to sell the 2-6000U's for at least 175 a piece (as they are still the most stable receiver for HDTV that Dish has ever made).


I hadn't considered that... but there was a post very recently on this forum where Dish had said that people could in fact lease multiple receivers if they went through a special department. There is a known low-supply of ViP622s right now so there is a definate temporary situation... but that should make it hard to buy or lease additional 622s at the moment.

I know Dish is sometimes difficult to deal with, but apparently they are trying to make multiple MPEG4 leases available to customers. You just have to bug them about it. I forget the thread, but if it is still active perhaps a Moderator will stumble along and post a link or repost the info from Dish about this situation.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

BFG said:


> You won't ever get the $157 you spent leasing back.
> 
> Someone who buys the receiver has a good chance of reselling it.


That's a maybe... Since Dish hasn't been activating 921, 942, or 6000s for new customers since Feb 1st this year... people who bought those are going to have a harder time selling them unless they take a lot lower price than in the past.

While selling stuff and getting money back is always a cool thing... I have learned not to try and build that into my budget because it has a habit of backfiring if you are depending on that money.

Plus, as mentioned a couple of times... If the receiver is not the first (i.e. is a 2nd or 3rd or whatever) then the customer will pay that $6 fee as an additional receiver fee anyway... so you'd still likely spend the $157 + the higher initial cost of buying the unit.

I really think if Dish could catch up on the supplies they would much rather just lease and not sell from now on.


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## Link (Feb 2, 2004)

We bought a 211 receiver because we weren't interested in being under any contract again for anything.


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

Link said:


> We bought a 211 receiver because we weren't interested in being under any contract again for anything.


New customers avoid the 18-month commitment by paying for their install, and not getting the $50 credit... but I don't believe the Dish-n-it-up upgrades for existing customers allow bypassing the 18-month agreement for a lease.

So you've brought up one reason why some, like yourself, might buy instead of lease.

'Course for me, that implies the thought already that you might want to leave in the next year... For me, I hate switching services and providers around for all kinds of things... so I tend to stay put long-term, so the commitments aren't a big deal to me since when I sign up for something I'm figuring on at least being there 1-2 years by default.


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## nataraj (Feb 25, 2006)

A few years back I sold a directv receiver I had when I switched to dish. There seemed to be lot of interest in the receiver and I couldn't make out why ... until I searched the net and found out it was easy to hack.


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## mikeyoung (Jan 15, 2006)

topom said:


> HDMe:
> 
> What you are missing is that customers like me with 3 HDTV's and currently running a PVR921 and 2-6000Us that want to upgrade to MPEG-4 can only get a lease deal on 1 Mpeg 4 receiver per year.


I have heard that before...but I dont understand it .....I was able to lease as many as I wanted... I replaced a 6000 that I was leasing with a 211 lease and replaced a 301 with a 622 lease....I inquired about leasing another 211 to replace my other 301 and was told no problem.

mike/


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

mikeyoung said:


> I have heard that before...but I dont understand it .....I was able to lease as many as I wanted... I replaced a 6000 that I was leasing with a 211 lease and replaced a 301 with a 622 lease....I inquired about leasing another 211 to replace my other 301 and was told no problem.


Dang, tell me who told you that so I can get these deals. If you read the DishNItUp lease program, it says ONLY 2 Tuners.


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## larrystotler (Jun 6, 2004)

If I had already paid a lot of money for my receivers, why should I get a replacement that I would no longer own? When you get right down to it it's a choice, and I would rather be allowed the choice. That's almost as bad as my cell companies handset warrenty. Have to start paying when you get the phone, it's $8 a month, and a $50 deductable. So, since I have had my phone for 32 months, I would have already paid $192 plus the $50 deductable, when I can get another phone for around $100-150 with only a one year contract and get what I want instead of a cheapo replacement. Not worth it unless I was prone to lose it.,


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## mikeyoung (Jan 15, 2006)

Ahh....but what if you trash that phone the first month you have it and dont have the insurance ? its not a $100-$150 phone. Its more like a $300 or $400 phone...at least ! - thats what the insurance is for - For most folks the best thing they can do is take advantage of the yearly phone 'upgrade' option and get a new one.
You are the exception - the rare person that can keep a phone functioning for almost 3 years! 
I agree though its nice to have the choice.


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## LaserMark4 (Nov 27, 2005)

BFG said:


> You won't ever get the $157 you spent leasing back. Someone who buys the receiver has a good chance of reselling it.


Problem is, in 2-3 years, that "hardware" has transformed into "vaporware". My 622 with MPEG4 is awesome! A huge improvement! What's next?

Also, at the rate of defectives these days , and as units continue to get more complex and approach the ability to flush the toilet and shut off the lights, chances for more breakdowns and problems to arise seems to be increasing....it's a nice assurance to pick up the phone and order the new/improved model if the unit craters on the lease plan. In a few years, envision the new units-- terabyte storage, multiple (unlimited) HD sets from one unit, wireless?, etc. Seems to me the lease is a low cost insurance of keeping up with the latest and greatest.


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## mikeyoung (Jan 15, 2006)

Its also the business model these days....companies are less and less interested in selling you something outright. The foucus is on developing a stream of monthly revenue from you .........FOREVER! - and also nickel and diming you as much as possible, If they thought they could get away with it they would charge you for each and every time you watch a show, listen to a song...etc. Its only a matter of time.

mike/


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## LaserMark4 (Nov 27, 2005)

mikeyoung said:


> Its also the business model these days....companies are less and less interested in selling you something outright. The foucus is on developing a stream of monthly revenue from you .........FOREVER! - and also nickel and diming you as much as possible, If they thought they could get away with it they would charge you for each and every time you watch a show, listen to a song...etc. Its only a matter of time. mike/


Ahhhh....the joys of capitalism. Eventually, if that nickle and diming gets too lucritative, another upstart will wipe off (and undercut) the leader and we'll all benefit as consumers.

Eventually the market sets the price and demand....unless you are the oil companies, right?


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## Jimmy the Dish (Nov 13, 2005)

Dish will allow you now to lease 2 mpeg 4 receivers. I just received a (blast Fax) business rules update on this.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

The ViP 622 purchase price has now dropped to $499!!!

Is there now a more compelling reason to buy instead of lease? Damn, I just signed up for a lease a week ago. I wonder if I can return it and purchase one. The one I've sitting here hasn't been hooked up yet.


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## BFG (Jan 23, 2004)

I wonder how long until the next price drop 

This one didn't take long


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## Geronimo (Mar 23, 2002)

What happens on a leased receiver after the commitment ends. are you obligated to keep paying? If not leasing pays only if you frequently swap receivers.


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## dave1234 (Oct 9, 2005)

Chandu said:


> The ViP 622 purchase price has now dropped to $499!!!
> 
> Is there now a more compelling reason to buy instead of lease? Damn, I just signed up for a lease a week ago. I wonder if I can return it and purchase one. The one I've sitting here hasn't been hooked up yet.


With this price drop and the fact my 942 is worth $350 on ebay makes purchasing looking more and more attractive. I could upgrade for $149 with no commitment and no lease fees. A better deal I think than the $99 trade in to lease offer.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

dave1234 said:


> With this price drop and the fact my 942 is worth $350 on ebay makes purchasing looking more and more attractive. I could upgrade for $149 with no commitment and no lease fees. A better deal I think than the $99 trade in to lease offer.


In my case, I'm a brand new customer. I've nothing to sell on eBay or trade in to DISH. They charged me $299 for a leased 622, which is sitting here waiting to be installed.

This is what I was considering:

Dish HD Gold (plus some more stuff not relevant to lease vs. buy issue)
Only a single 622 receiver.
Plug in the phone line into back of 622.

Given these requirements, would I still be subject to a DVR lease fee? I've read conflicting information that the lease fee only applies if there is more than 1 receiver, and activation/lease charges of the 1st receiver are already covered as part of activation itself. While some others state that those fees for more than 1 receiver are "extra receiver fees", completely unrelated to "lease fee". Some other informaton I've seen states there is a $5 DVR fee, just for being able to use DVR functionality - irrespective of whether I bought or leased 622. There is just way too much information out there, some of it conflicting with other, and I'm all confused. (Yeah, like I want to call a CSR and get more conflicting information confusing me even more!?!? I hate to pick up the phone and talk with a CSR, before making sure of things from knowledgable people here.)

How about if I agree to 18 month commitment? Is leasing attractive in that case? Apart from a credit for first month statement, does it also provide "dish home protection plan" free for the length of the commitment? If there are problems with a leased 622 unit, this seems like a better way to go. Let DISH pick up a broken unit and send a new one at their expense, and ask them to pick up the leased equipment at the end of the commitment!

Given all of my requirements, if someone could make a case for me that it's worth spending $499 on a 622 instead of leasing it, I would love to hear it.


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## Chandu (Oct 3, 2005)

BUMP.

Anyone with thoughts on questions in above post of mine? Basically, I'm interested in finding out pros/cons of buying own vs. leasing for a new customer like mine.


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## koralis (Aug 10, 2005)

westfield60 said:


> Just a question. I upgraded to the VIP211 receiver recently and noticed that Dish Network charges me a $6.00 leasing fee on the receiver. I am leasing this receiver for 18 months (contract) and including the initial $49.00, so that totals $157.00.
> 
> However I've seen posts here from people who buy the receiver (most from Ebay) and in looking at Ebay this morning most of the 211 receivers sell for about $250.00. Why would someone spend $250.00 to buy the receiver when leasing costs them $157.00.
> 
> Am I missing something? Also don't receivers become almost obselete in a few years when they come out with better units, so why buy?


I guess the question is whether you intend to replace the reciever every 18 months or not. I personally don't see the need for doing that so long as the technology isn't forced (grrr.. Mpeg4 obsolecense...) While new features may come along on later models, so long as the system continues to work as I need it to, I'm not inclined to upgrade. But then again, I drive a 10 year old car. 

Another thing to consider is that leasing the 622 requires you to buy the metal pack, which is a pretty expensive upgrade for not much in the way of desirable channels for many people. That extra savings from not having to subscribe to the premium package can add up quickly.

For me I'm in a scenario where I have a purchased 921 and 508 to handle two television. Selling both on Ebay to replace with a single purchased 622 may make sense and not be forced to get the metal pack for 18 months (maybe in 12 months there will be compelling content exclusive to the bronze package and I'll choose to... maybe not.)

I'm still debating it.


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## JIM STORY (Feb 25, 2006)

How is warrantee and service affected by lease vs buying?
Jim


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## Stewart Vernon (Jan 7, 2005)

With the recent price drop to $499 it tempts me to buy a ViP622 instead of lease for the $299 upgrade. In my case I pretty much have the hardware otherwise I need as I already see 110/119/61.5 for all the HD. Only hardware upgrade I need is in my LNBs so that I don't have to run another line down to the room that would contain the 622.

So if the purchase price were just a little lower I wouldn't mind buying. My main thing is about money out. I don't care about resale value because that it a crapshoot. If they change technology (like they are to MPEG4) then older MPEG2 receivers will start to lose value soon if they haven't already.

If the lease were $99 or free to enter... then I'd lease all the way to reduce my initial up front costs. Since I'll end up paying an additional receiver fee anyway, that part is a wash.


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