# AM-21's out of stock ... are they being discontinued?



## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

I know I can get them online from Solid Signal but I am in no rush and why pay more than list PLUS shipping when they are cheaper from DirecTV w/free shipping?

Anyway, I ordered 2 AM21's for my 2 new HR24's about 2 weeks ago and they both said "shipped" on the same day I ordered them plus I was billed for them. 

So I call DirecTV to check and the CSR had no clue what an AM21 was. She INSISTED it was an HD-DVR ..... so I said thanks and hung up.

Friday I got a call from DirecTV "customer response team" (or whatever they are called). I never asked for a callback and was just going to wait it out and the nice fellow said they were calling everyone who ordered an AM-21 to tell them they were back-ordered for 2-3 weeks and he would keep in touch with me to let me know the status. My only gripe was that I was billed but even that is no big deal AND the website still has them up for order with no mention of back order.

The POINT of this rambling message  : Anyone hear rumors of the AM-21 being dropped for a newer model?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

yes


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## Avder (Feb 6, 2010)

veryoldschool said:


> yes


I dont suppose you could elaborate?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Avder said:


> I dont suppose you could elaborate?


It was the answer to the OP's question at the end of his post.


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## webby_s (Jan 11, 2008)

Avder said:


> I dont suppose you could elaborate?





veryoldschool said:


> It was the answer to the OP's question at the end of his post.


I assume it would be something we may see "SOON"???? (in regards to the answer VOS is answering)

There's that word again, soon. :grin: :grin: :sure:


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

VOS: can you say if the AM-21 replacement will be more or less functionally the same (same type of hookup to the receiver, same type of non-scanning channel setup, etc)??


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

tkrandall said:


> VOS: can you say if the AM-21 replacement will be more or less functionally the same (same type of hookup to the receiver, same type of non-scanning channel setup, etc)??


"I think" the next model will be something like AM-21i, so basically what we have now.
I only know rumors and whispers at this point, but believe this is why the only stock on hand is "old stock", waiting on the new production run.


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## webby_s (Jan 11, 2008)

veryoldschool said:


> "I think" the next model will be something like AM-21i, so basically what we have now.
> I only know rumors and whispers at this point, but believe this is why the only stock on hand is "old stock", waiting on the new production run.


Thanks VOS  for those "rumors" and "whispers".


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> "I think" the next model will be something like AM-21i, so basically what we have now.
> I only know rumors and whispers at this point, but believe this is why the only stock on hand is "old stock", waiting on the new production run.


 There is no stock on hand from DirecTV according to the guy who called me. Geez, maybe for once I'll get the "new" model from DirecTV. AM-21i. Maybe "i" = improved? Maybe it will actually scan for channels?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

TBlazer07 said:


> Maybe it will actually scan for channels?


I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

Could the "i" mean "interactive"? Meaning...you could interact with AM21 and tell it which channels it should receive?


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

It will be the AM-21N. Same features/function of the current AM-21. Mainly designed to work with Hx25+ (will work on 21-24s). Biggest change is to the power cord. It also includes a cap for the 21 to H/HR2x to prevent shocks if not used. Thats it really.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RobertE said:


> It will be the AM-21N.


Thanks, I couldn't remember the letter added [duh].


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## ndole (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm pretty sure the N doesn't stand for "Nano" either :lol:


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Mmmmm, nice. Hope it plays well with the HR24 line, might have to get one 

Thanks for the ingfo.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I have been thinking of picking up another AM21 (mainly for the subchannels). I guess I'll wait until the new ones are available.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

I hope the OTA tuner is at least as good as the current AM-21's.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

tkrandall said:


> I hope the OTA tuner is at least as good as the current AM-21's.


That shouldn't be too difficult achive, considering that the current AM21 with its major design flaw of no provision for OTA scanning was never really "good" to begin with.

In fact it was downright stupid of DirecTV to build any off-air ATSC tuner that operates like this to be honest.


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## bobvick1983 (Mar 21, 2007)

I am having DirecTV installed on Friday. I have an AM21 coming that I ordered from E-Bay. My question about the AM21 is, because it does not scan, will it allow me to get OTA stations from a neighboring market? I will have locals from Birmingham on DirecTv, but I can receive locals from Tupelo, Miss on my antenna. Will I be able to see the Tupelo locals since I receive locals from the Birmingham market?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Scanning is a feature of the software, not the hardware.

Cheers,
Tom


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## I WANT MORE (Oct 3, 2006)

So, Your saying there's a chance?


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

I hope they hit soon, I will damn sure buy one.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

bobvick1983 said:


> ... will it allow me to get OTA stations from a neighboring market? I will have locals from Birmingham on DirecTv, but I can receive locals from Tupelo, Miss on my antenna. Will I be able to see the Tupelo locals since I receive locals from the Birmingham market?


I have an HR20 with built-in OTA tuner so I don't know about the AM-21, but if it works the same as mine, you can add one additional zip code to enable OTA reception from a nearby broadcast region. As with your primary area, you'll still be limited to those stations for which they have data in the guide, though, which in some cases may be a less-than-complete list.


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## bobvick1983 (Mar 21, 2007)

"makaiguy" said:


> I have an HR20 with built-in OTA tuner so I don't know about the AM-21, but if it works the same as mine, you can add one additional zip code to enable OTA reception from a nearby broadcast region. As with your primary area, you'll still be limited to those stations for which they have data in the guide, though, which in some cases may be a less-than-complete list.


Thanks for your reply. Maybe the AM21 will work the same way.


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## CCarncross (Jul 19, 2005)

bobvick1983 said:


> Thanks for your reply. Maybe the AM21 will work the same way.


Yes they do work exactly the same, the only difference is its an external module, instead of internal to the HR20. You can enter zip codes from 2 different areas if you can pull in the channels with your antenna. Some people can actually receive 3 markets. For example, if D* provides your locals in HD, and you have 2 other markets available via OTA.


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

HoTat2 said:


> That shouldn't be too difficult achive, considering that the current AM21 with its major design flaw of no provision for OTA scanning was never really "good" to begin with.
> 
> In fact it was downright stupid of DirecTV to build any off-air ATSC tuner that operates like this to be honest.


I meant the tuner's ability to tune and hold a signal.

As Tom Roberston already noted, the lack of OTA scanning is a software issue in the box, and not a function of the tuner's robustness. I have no doubt that with a software change, DirecTV could activate OTA scanning on the HR20s and the AM-21s.

I have both and HR20-700 and an AM21 hooked up to an HR24-200. As far as setup, and user interface, there is no difference. That said, the AM-21 has a better tuner at receiving/holding weaker OTA signals or signals with multipath.


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## Newshawk (Sep 3, 2004)

bobvick1983 said:


> I am having DirecTV installed on Friday. I have an AM21 coming that I ordered from E-Bay. My question about the AM21 is, because it does not scan, will it allow me to get OTA stations from a neighboring market? I will have locals from Birmingham on DirecTv, but I can receive locals from Tupelo, Miss on my antenna. Will I be able to see the Tupelo locals since I receive locals from the Birmingham market?


You can designate a secondary market when setting up the AM21. Just use a Tupelo Zip code.


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## JimAtTheRez (May 9, 2008)

I have 4 HD DVR's, but the one in my living room is an HR20. I have a 3D projector, Bluray, and Onkyo Receiver with HDMI connections....but I like the 20 because I have OTA on it for the subchannels. I may try to switch out one of the DVR's from another room, if I can get an AM21 from DTV, so I can at least take a look at 3D. I am not sure I am interested, but I might as well use it since it is no extra charge.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Tom Robertson said:


> Scanning is a feature of the software, not the hardware.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom





tkrandall said:


> I meant the tuner's ability to tune and hold a signal.
> 
> As Tom Roberston already noted, the lack of OTA scanning is a software issue in the box, and not a function of the tuner's robustness. I have no doubt that with a software change, DirecTV could activate OTA scanning on the HR20s and the AM-21s.
> 
> I have both and HR20-700 and an AM21 hooked up to an HR24-200. As far as setup, and user interface, there is no difference. That said, the AM-21 has a better tuner at receiving/holding weaker OTA signals or signals with multipath.


Thanks guys;

Yeah, I really knew the lack of off-air scanning is really a SW issue, and that "you" (tkrandall) were referring to the coming AM21N's signal reception capability that is of course dependent on the choice of tuner hardware chips used in the module when I posted earlier.

But, frustration boiling over, just couldn't resist taking almost any snipe at DirecTV over their handling of the AM21 and HR20 integrated ATSC OTA tuner saga even if not technically accurate. Due to DirecTV's very poor design choice and continued stubborn intransigence at refusing to fix it.


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

HoTat2 said:


> Thanks guys;
> 
> Yeah, I really knew the lack of off-air scanning is really a SW issue, and that "you" (tkrandall) were referring to the coming AM21N's signal reception capability that is of course dependent on the choice of tuner hardware chips used in the module when I posted earlier.
> 
> But, frustration boiling over, just couldn't resist taking almost any snipe at DirecTV over their handling of the AM21 and HR20 integrated ATSC OTA tuner saga even if not technically accurate. Due to DirecTV's very poor design choice and continued stubborn intransigence at refusing to fix it.


Frustration and venting are allowed. 

(though if you make a mistake in technical terminology [or grammarspelling] you might get a note from the teachers.) 

Cheers,
Tom


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

Finally got my long back-ordered 2 AM-21's (NOT AM-21N's  ). In the box was a sheet that stated:

"All AM-21's were retrofiited with black caps over the AC cord dongle."

I assume that that's why the long delay. It seems because H25's couldn't use the dongle and people were probably sticking screwdrivers in the cable to see if it was hot. :lol:


From same sheet:

"AM21 vs AM21N

AM21 - Gloss Finish, front bezel states 'AM21 Off Air Tuner'
AM21N - Flat black finish, front bezel states 'Off Air Tuner' "


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

If that's the only difference, I decided to go ahead and order one now, regardless of which type I get. I already have a AM21 but with all of the new subchannels which have been introduced in the past few years, I want one in each location.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

That sucks.


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

bobnielsen said:


> If that's the only difference, I decided to go ahead and order one now, regardless of which type I get. I already have a AM21 but with all of the new subchannels which have been introduced in the past few years, I want one in each location.


Thats what I said in post 12.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

I missed that post. Guess I need to decide if I want to try one again with my hr24.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I used my current AM21 with my HR24-500 for a while (when the 24 first came out) without any issues. Hopefully the new one will work fine also.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

I got a 500 in the beginning and it never worked right with my am21, kinda gun shy I guess.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

We will never see OTA scanning. Its just not easy to implement at all.. The scanning function alone delayed over a year the SRHD-500 (mits Directv HD receiver, the first one out to integrate the directv and HD and OTA HD and all in one guide data) when they first came out because of getting it all integrated with the guides... And that was no DVR and before MPEG-4 and the newer sats.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

So I guess no change in form factor. I was hoping for something smaller.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Roku size would be nice.


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## Jason Whiddon (Aug 17, 2006)

Lotta price variance on these

$50 at Directv
$69 at a web retailer we all know of
$89 at Amazon


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

inkahauts said:


> We will never see OTA scanning. Its just not easy to implement at all.. The scanning function alone delayed over a year the SRHD-500 (mits Directv HD receiver, the first one out to integrate the directv and HD and OTA HD and all in one guide data) when they first came out because of getting it all integrated with the guides... And that was no DVR and before MPEG-4 and the newer sats.


Why then do you think the old DTIVO HR10-250 and currently Dish Network is able to incorporate OTA scanning into their DVRs so well and seemingly without difficulty then?

Sorry, can't buy that as an excuse for DirecTV's silly design choice and intransigence to rectify it here. :nono2:


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## aa9vi (Sep 4, 2007)

HoTat2 said:


> Thanks guys;
> 
> Yeah, I really knew the lack of off-air scanning is really a SW issue, and that "you" (tkrandall) were referring to the coming AM21N's signal reception capability that is of course dependent on the choice of tuner hardware chips used in the module when I posted earlier.
> 
> But, frustration boiling over, just couldn't resist taking almost any snipe at DirecTV over their handling of the AM21 and HR20 integrated ATSC OTA tuner saga even if not technically accurate. Due to DirecTV's very poor design choice and continued stubborn intransigence at refusing to fix it.


Really? We've been told all along the scan wasn't possible because of hardware now you've confirmed it's just stubbornness? Are you speculating or is this a technical fact? If it is a fact, it sounds like this is an easy fix. Please elaborate. We're interested.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

I do not know if the AM21 hardware is or is not capable of scanning. I would suspect it would be a software capability more than hardware though. I do know that DirecTV made a specific decision to implement OTA channel mapping the way they did, and that they had good reasons for doing so. I also know it is very unlikely that they will change, there are no current plans to do so. 

However, the future is unknown and I suppose anything is possible. After all, it was due to long and persistent pressure that double-play was implemented in the HR2x series DVRs. While true, permanent, "dual live buffers" in the sense that Tivo had them did not come to pass, a perfectly workable similar alternative did (with much longer buffers too).

So, the best possible approach would be to request and encourage (with sound logical arguments) channel scanning as opposed to griping about it not being there. I have no way of knowing whether or not that would result in change, but taking the positive route sure seems to me to be the better alternative.


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## JoeTheDragon (Jul 21, 2008)

carl6 said:


> I do not know if the AM21 hardware is or is not capable of scanning. I would suspect it would be a software capability more than hardware though. I do know that DirecTV made a specific decision to implement OTA channel mapping the way they did, and that they had good reasons for doing so. I also know it is very unlikely that they will change, there are no current plans to do so.
> 
> However, the future is unknown and I suppose anything is possible. After all, it was due to long and persistent pressure that double-play was implemented in the HR2x series DVRs. While true, permanent, "dual live buffers" in the sense that Tivo had them did not come to pass, a perfectly workable similar alternative did (with much longer buffers too).
> 
> So, the best possible approach would be to request and encourage (with sound logical arguments) channel scanning as opposed to griping about it not being there. I have no way of knowing whether or not that would result in change, but taking the positive route sure seems to me to be the better alternative.


if they don't add scanning why not add border zone mexico and canada to the maps and list it as no guide data or the channel name only.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

JoeTheDragon said:


> if they don't add scanning why not add border zone mexico and canada to the maps and list it as no guide data or the channel name only.


Without guide data, it is not practical to set recordings. If you are not going to record, then why not simply tune those stations directly on your television?


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I received the new AM21 (not N) today. It does better on marginal signals than my original model (from the very first batch).


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## tkrandall (Oct 3, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> We will never see OTA scanning. Its just not easy to implement at all..


I just don't buy that at all.

Just about every low-rent ATSC tuner can do OTA scanning. HR20 and AM-21 are the only exceptions of which I am aware. And as already noted, Dish has been doing this (scanning in conjunction with integrated guide info) successfully for a long time.

All that said, I see no reason to require that guide info be integrated in order to allow the tuning of a channel. This is a totally arbitrary design/implementation decision by DirecTV that many of us take issue with. It simply is not necessary. And it creates work for them in having to keep a "tunable channels" database up to date.

Let us scan the channels. If DirecTV happens to have guide data in their data stream for that channel, then great, populate the guide with that info. If not, simply say "programming info not available" OR populate the guide with the info embedded in the OTA stream. That cannot be hard.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

inkahauts said:


> The scanning function alone delayed over a year the SRHD-500 (mits Directv HD receiver, the first one out to integrate the directv and HD and OTA HD and all in one guide data) when they first came out because of getting it all integrated with the guides... And that was no DVR and before MPEG-4 and the newer sats.


There are several flaws with this reasoning:
The SR-HD500 (aka Hughes HIRD-E86) hit the market over ten years ago. _Much_ has changed since then.
DIRECTV hadn't been offering OTA guide data prior to that time so it had to be developed and tested. Up to that point, the guide just said "Regular Schedule" for OTA/cable channels.
MPEG4 and more/newer satellites have nothing to do with OTA outside of possibly hitting the wall with the seemingly feeble guide database engine.
Finally, reasoning that it is "too hard" goes out the window when you consider that the H20 implemented OTA scanning well before OTA was enabled on the HR20.

It seems likely that DIRECTV could benefit from an overhaul of their guide database and engine and as a result, the nagging issues of OTA scanning, series link limits and maybe even guide slowness could be addressed. Everybody wins.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

carl6 said:


> Without guide data, it is not practical to set recordings.


We all got along fine before the advent of VCR+ and similar.[/quote] If you are not going to record, then why not simply tune those stations directly on your television?[/QUOTE]Because switching inputs/remotes shouldn't be a necessary part of the viewing experience.


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## hancox (Jun 23, 2004)

inkahauts said:


> We will never see OTA scanning. Its just not easy to implement at all.. The scanning function alone delayed over a year the SRHD-500 (mits Directv HD receiver, the first one out to integrate the directv and HD and OTA HD and all in one guide data) when they first came out because of getting it all integrated with the guides... And that was no DVR and before MPEG-4 and the newer sats.


Total hogwash. Can you name another non-scanning currently-available OTA tuning device? I can't.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

+1

Dish does it with no problems. If you pick up something that's not in the guide, you can still watch and record the channel, but you just get no schedule data. No big deal. Thanks to scanning, I get about 30 OTA channels on Dish versus maybe 10 I got with an AM21 or HR20/H20.

But I agree that we'll never see it on DirecTV. Seems like D* gets a free pass on all missing features or missing channels because of the unimaginable complexity of the technology or making carriage deals. Yet their competitors manage to do the impossible all the time. I believe D* simply lacks the will to do such things, not that they are impossible tasks.


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## rrdirectsr (Jan 30, 2011)

TBlazer07 said:


> I know I can get them online from Solid Signal but I am in no rush and why pay more than list PLUS shipping when they are cheaper from DirecTV w/free shipping?
> 
> Anyway, I ordered 2 AM21's for my 2 new HR24's about 2 weeks ago and they both said "shipped" on the same day I ordered them plus I was billed for them.
> 
> ...


The AM 21s are not going anywhere. They are no longer in back order.


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## ricochet (Aug 21, 2006)

carl6 said:


> I do not know if the AM21 hardware is or is not capable of scanning. I would suspect it would be a software capability more than hardware though. I do know that DirecTV made a specific decision to implement OTA channel mapping the way they did, and that they had good reasons for doing so. I also know it is very unlikely that they will change, there are no current plans to do so.


I don't know how you could even make a tuner that is not capable of scanning.

I'm sure DirecTV has several reasons for doing it this way, but I always figured one of them was so they could make sure guide data was available. The guide data isn't as important for non-DVRs so that is why the H20 could scan. I guess the newer non-DVRs don't scan so I guess they decided to be consistent.


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## DFWHD (Feb 9, 2008)

rrdirectsr said:


> The AM 21s are not going anywhere. They are no longer in back order.


Just got mine Monday after a 3 week delay. Same old AM-21, no improvements. But it meets my needs...


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## TBlazer07 (Feb 5, 2009)

rrdirectsr said:


> The AM 21s are not going anywhere. They are no longer in back order.


 Thanks, but that was confirmed many days & messages ago in this thread.


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## jmillecpa (Jul 17, 2003)

I bought my AM21 through an on line retailer on 4/30 for $69.99. I installed it without any problem and it worked great. But after a couple of weeks I started to see pixilation on some of the local channels. Now I can't recieve a clear signal on any local channel. When I hook up the antenna directly to the TV the local channels are clear and perfect. So I wonder about the warranty. The user guide says to contact Direct TV, but I found a post on Direct TV advising contact the manufacturer. Their is no information on who the manufacturer is on the tuner or anywhere else. 

My advice is to buy only from direct TV and be sure you are clear on how to get warranty service.


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