# FTA receivers and the hackers.



## negril jam (Mar 14, 2004)

With the recent death of the hu direct card all the hackers are buying these receivers and boasting that they get up to 2000 free channels. why isn't dish preventing the illegal use of these receivers which were intended for free fta air only.At the same time subscription rates for dish are going up.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Dish has the newer Nagravision system (Nagravision II?) in place and actively running on receivers which are using yellow cards. Expect Dish to turn off the original Nagravision on all of the HD and 8PSK channels as soon as the "card swap" finishes for the 6000 receivers (all 921s and 811s already have yellow cards). As for the SD channels, Dish will continue to try and confuse things, but ultimately there's only so much that can be done if they can't do a card swap on some of the really old receivers (because these receivers won't support it).


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## homeskillet (Feb 3, 2004)

I have a 301 with a blue card, should I be expecting a new yellow card soon?


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

Eventually, I think Dish will require that the receiver at least periodically is hooked up to a phone line for verification. Two-way communication would kill most of the pirate boxes. Then someone always finds a way. Personally, I am more than willing to pay for what I want. If I don't want it, I don't subscribe or cancel it. 

Note: my 501 has a blue card, my 510 has a yellow. I asked Dish about a yellow for the 501. Their attitude was "Don't worry, be happy." :lol:


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

I have a Model 1000 box that says it is Dish 500 Card Ready. Don't think there is any box older than that!


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

negril jam - I wouldn't be too worried - I think there is a card swap going for E* as well, although not at the intensity you saw for D*. The pirates will get what's coming to them eventually.


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

Two months ago Dish sent me a yellow card for my 501 in the mail. I guess they're working their way around to everyone.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

MikeW said:


> I have a Model 1000 box that says it is Dish 500 Card Ready. Don't think there is any box older than that!


The 2000 and 4000 are older than the 1000.


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## boba (May 23, 2003)

John H add the 3000 also as older than the 1000. DISH will be starting a major push to swap cards August to September, don't invest in too many old receivers for the Blue cards.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

People with legit equipment have no worries. E* will do whatever is needed to keep a customer happy. Criminal hackers will lose. (Non-criminal hackers probably won't be affected since some things have to be sent in the clear, and that's the things that they are most interested in anyways.)

JL


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Ok Dish and Bev ( Bell Express Vue ) have taken a stance against FTA reciever that can emulate the Nagravision encryption. The biggest thing is that The public decryption keys do not autoroll (auto update ) like they do on a normal sub card and Dish can change the keys every 10 minutes if they had to.. There has been a few countermeasure against this. But they just fixed them.. These things will die out. 


Also the 921 and the 811 are camless recivers hence no yellow card but a embed chip that runs the nagravision 2 decryption.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

I believe Scott reported that the card swapout should be completed by 2005... So, hackers may only have 6 months. It will be interesting to see what happens to sub numbers when both Dish and DIRECTV have cut off the cards (DIRECTV did their cut off last month).


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## rajeev28 (Oct 16, 2003)

boba said:


> John H add the 3000 also as older than the 1000. DISH will be starting a major push to swap cards August to September, don't invest in too many old receivers for the Blue cards.


I beleive they all have been updated to Dish500 Card ready (yellow card), so doesnt matter.

I thought they would stop supporting my JVC D-VHS, but that too got Dish500 card ready in the last update. Also, in the last tech-forum, this caller had a problem with his D-VHS (he couldn't watch some movies which were recorded on D-VHS before the update and was wondering if he needs the yellow card to solve the problem).

They said they weren't aware of such a problem and he can continue to use the blue card as it's not related ( they were right, I checked and it worked fine). Point being, they never showed any urgency for the swap else they would have advised him to call dish or wait for the new card in mail.


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## hax0r (Aug 10, 2002)

ypsiguy said:


> Eventually, I think Dish will require that the receiver at least periodically is hooked up to a phone line for verification. Two-way communication would kill most of the pirate boxes.


Do FTA receivers even have a phone jack?


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## Brownside (Apr 22, 2004)

hax0r said:


> Do FTA receivers even have a phone jack?


Nope they do not, at least most of the ones I have seen.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

hax0r said:


> Do FTA receivers even have a phone jack?


Mine has a 10/100 network card and also runs Windows. 

JL
(And it doesn't descramble a single scrambled video feed ... only FTA viewing and listening.)


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

A. According to on of the [email protected] reps. The blue cards are staying around only some models are getting it. It was said that some models like 7200 will not support the yellow card until summer of next year. So hackers have till at least then to get the nagraII system hacked. And considering that the Germans have already broken the Nagravision II encryption and how to break in to there own version of DN yellow cards it is just a matter of time before hackers win again. Dish Network Seem to be happy ECMing recivers and disabling them. and some one will come out with a p4 hack for dtv and dtv will be back to being pirated like a mofo.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

Ypsiguy, having to have receivers hooked up to the phone line as a remedy doesn't do anything to solve the root problem, which is that the Nagravision system is weak and has been cracked. Since FTA receivers are not Dish Network receivers, obviously Dish doesn't write the software and hence can't require that they be hooked up to anything, so this isn't a solution to this particular problem.

Stonecold, just so you know, the yellow card on the 921 is hidden behind a small sliding door and is completely removeable. It is not built in, nor does the receiver run without a smart card, as you claimed above.


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

I did not say that it would "solve" the problem. It would only make it more difficult to pirate the signal. Two-way communications provide a way to deliver instructions to the box without embedding it into the signal. If Nagravision 2 is cracked at a core level, then there is not much that can be done about that. Some may know differently, but I believe the only system not compromised yet is Digicipher 2. Correct?


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## ypsiguy (Jan 28, 2004)

justalurker said:


> People with legit equipment have no worries. E* will do whatever is needed to keep a customer happy. Criminal hackers will lose. (Non-criminal hackers probably won't be affected since some things have to be sent in the clear, and that's the things that they are most interested in anyways.)
> 
> JL


Speaking of in the clear, are the Sirius channels still in the clear? If they are and are going to stay that way I wouldn't mind adding a third receiver (FTA) to get them. Especially since I already pay for them thru Dish and Sirius. However, I have a feeling Dish is going to Nagravision them.


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## cdru (Dec 4, 2003)

Also note that FTA != illegal. There are FTA receivers that are used to pick up 100% legitimate unencrypted signals that are just out there in the wild, such as some internationals, public access, and shopping. There are also some semi-FTA channels, such as the Dish audio channels, that are technically FTA although you have to pay to receive them on your dish receiver.

What most of you are are talking about are hacked non-fta receivers or FTA receivers like the Blackbird (I believe) that will do the decryption.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Slordak said:


> Ypsiguy, having to have receivers hooked up to the phone line as a remedy doesn't do anything to solve the root problem, which is that the Nagravision system is weak and has been cracked. Since FTA receivers are not Dish Network receivers, obviously Dish doesn't write the software and hence can't require that they be hooked up to anything, so this isn't a solution to this particular problem.
> 
> Stonecold, just so you know, the yellow card on the 921 is hidden behind a small sliding door and is completely removeable. It is not built in, nor does the receiver run without a smart card, as you claimed above.


My 921 does have a card slot but no card. They are camless like the 311 and the 811. the card is really now just a IC chip with the nagravision software on it.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

cdru said:


> Also note that FTA != illegal. There are FTA receivers that are used to pick up 100% legitimate unencrypted signals that are just out there in the wild, such as some internationals, public access, and shopping. There are also some semi-FTA channels, such as the Dish audio channels, that are technically FTA although you have to pay to receive them on your dish receiver.
> 
> What most of you are are talking about are hacked non-fta receivers or FTA receivers like the Blackbird (I believe) that will do the decryption.


Blackbird is a fta that has been flashed with a nagravision emulation program.
Sold as a hackers box.

The Fortec Star Lifetime FTA box (not the ultra but the orginal) could be flashed to do a nagravision 1 decryption. Like the black bird.


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## PSB (Oct 4, 2002)

FTA satellite is 100% legal! The systems that I use/sell/install only pick up FREE channels that are meant to be free, or FTA feeds of sport and news! Dont get the FTA hobby mixed up with any thing against the law!!!!!!!!!


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

i think you ment, PSB - "FTA satellite is 100% legal!" (not "FTA satellite is 100% legal?")

! vs ?


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## PSB (Oct 4, 2002)

Fixed! :listening www.totalrock.com


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## DishNet_Fan (Oct 14, 2003)

stonecold said:


> A. According to on of the [email protected] reps. The blue cards are staying around only some models are getting it. It was said that some models like 7200 will not support the yellow card until summer of next year. So hackers have till at least then to get the nagraII system hacked. And considering that the Germans have already broken the Nagravision II encryption and how to break in to there own version of DN yellow cards it is just a matter of time before hackers win again. Dish Network Seem to be happy ECMing recivers and disabling them. and some one will come out with a p4 hack for dtv and dtv will be back to being pirated like a mofo.


Hackers will continue to try to compromise the System, that's their nature. Is Charlie losing money on a few thousand Dish hackers vs. the millions of subs he has?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

PSB said:


> Dont get the FTA hobby mixed up with any thing against the law!!!!!!!!!


Agreed, except for those folks who are not getting FTA stuff "as a hobby" but to pick up legitimate FTA program offerings. Not every program provider insists that you give them dollars for their wares.

Unfortunately FTA has become an acronym for "I can get it for free" instead of "it is OFFERED free". Many think that all unscrambled channels are free, just because one doesn't have to pay. And then the criminal hackers think that scrambled channels are free, because their hacks allow them to see without paying (the provider).

FTA has its legit uses ... receiving scrambled subscription programming is not legit FTA.

JL


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

justalurker said:


> Agreed, except for those folks who are not getting FTA stuff "as a hobby" but to pick up legitimate FTA program offerings. Not every program provider insists that you give them dollars for their wares.
> 
> Unfortunately FTA has become an acronym for "I can get it for free" instead of "it is OFFERED free". Many think that all unscrambled channels are free, just because one doesn't have to pay. And then the criminal hackers think that scrambled channels are free, because their hacks allow them to see without paying (the provider).
> 
> ...


I kind of take that " as a hobby " line kinda personal.... I have a fta reciever no it not one of the ones that can flashed to recieve Dn programing. Any way me and a group of others have fta systems and call it a hobby. Fta is not enough to support us off pay televison but we try different dishes diffterent motors, we go randomly scanning the sky .... It was best back in the late cband days, on the ku band on one of the satellite was the National NBC east Live feed that NBC stations would recieve to rebroadcast. For a long time it use to be Unencrypted. But only if i had tivo back then. I would of had one of tom brokaw picking his nose. Then 2 years later NBC encrypted the signal. But going around finding just un plublish channels and talking about what we found once a month is really just a hobby.

But if your going to " " the pirates use more of a apporite hacker term... While some think of it as a hobby, other and now most of the hacking world gone over to support the word " TESTING "

I just be happy with the DTV latest card gets hack and all those dtv hackers stop raising the prices on ebay auctions because they are desprite for a quick tv fix.


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

stonecold said:


> My 921 does have a card slot but no card. They are camless like the 311 and the 811. the card is really now just a IC chip with the nagravision software on it.


I don't know how that's possible, unless Dish is shipping two different revisions of this unit, which seems unlikely since the 921 is quite new and only available in limited quantities.

On my unit, when you slide the small horizontal door open in the front, the front panel is revealed, including a yellow card inserted in the card slot. If you remove this card, the 921 reboots and demands that the card be re-inserted. It will not run without the smart card. Since we've had many discussions about performing a "smart card reboot" on the 921 forum (which is done by removing this card and re-inserting it), I believe that we can assume that this is a common thing (i.e. my unit is not a freak).


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

I did not say your unit is a freak... But you also did not pick up a remanufacter 921 that was supposed to be a demo unit either... I got a deal through a local dish retailer who is an old friend. But Slordak, if you took your 921 appart there is a spot of the board for the the Nagravision II chip instead of using the card. The spot is even on 301.13s 301 reg 13.... The only difference between the 301 and the 311 is they disabled the card slot and put the IC chip on the board as the smart card. I could slide a dish net card in and out of my my 921 all day would not do a thing. as the smart card slot is disabled on mine. The only bad thing is unless my friend did not get something from dish is there a remote key combo that would simulate a card reset. as now during the the begging onf my 921 glory I had to unplug the unit and plug it back in quite a bit.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

stonecold said:


> I kind of take that " as a hobby " line kinda personal....


My point was that some FTA users have FTA to view TV and not to play with it.
No intent to suggest that you or other FTA hobby people are trying to steal.

The majority of E* and D*'s subscribers get satellite TV for viewing. And then there are those who also consider E*/D* viewing and tracking a hobby.

JL


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## Steveox (Apr 21, 2004)

justalurker said:


> My point was that some FTA users have FTA to view TV and not to play with it.
> No intent to suggest that you or other FTA hobby people are trying to steal.
> 
> The majority of E* and D*'s subscribers get satellite TV for viewing. And then there are those who also consider E*/D* viewing and tracking a hobby.
> ...


Luker if you subscribe to dish network and get FTA reciver i see nothing wrong with that.Like theyre channels dish network will not let you have like turner south for example.And they will not let you have your favorite city channels like i live in south florida i want baltimore channels.Cause i used to live there.So if theres channels dish network wont let you have so why not find another way to get em?


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Steveox said:


> Luker if you subscribe to dish network and get FTA reciver i see nothing wrong with that.Like theyre channels dish network will not let you have like turner south for example.And they will not let you have your favorite city channels like i live in south florida i want baltimore channels.Cause i used to live there.So if theres channels dish network wont let you have so why not find another way to get em?


There are licensing rules that apply. It isn't E* being stingy about what it offers (in your examples) as much as outside forces that do not allow them to offer the channels at any price.

Technically speaking, if you qualify for an offered network distants like those LA, Chicago, Atlanta, and NY you could get that out of market network station from any market. (Up to two per day per network.) But if you don't qualify for NBC NY you don't qualify for ANY NBC station than the one(s) in your DMA. That isn't E* or D*'s rule, that's the law.

So "finding another way to get them" should not include violating the law. If you can find an in the clear uplink of a station you win ... that's FTA. But buying or building equipment that *unscrambles* channels WITHOUT paying the programming fee? That's not legal.

There are some locals that for one reason or another are not being scrambled. Some are on Ku, some are on C. There are also sports channels and wild feeds that are available unscrabled on FTA equipment. That's part of the *HOBBY* of FTA. But descrambling programs without the proper subscription? That's criminal hacking.

I hope it's clear now where the line is. Yeah, you subscribe to E* - I subscribe to E*. I can't get Turner South and you can't get Fox Sports Chicago and Fox Sports Midwest like I can. Our subscriptions are only paying for the channels we can get - nothing else.

JL


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## Slordak (Dec 17, 2003)

OK, so back to the original topic...

Dish will have a hard time really securing their signal until they disable their original Nagravision system and make all of the channels Nagravision II only (right now, channels have both systems running). Since Nagravision has been widely compromised, no amount of tinkering with the command set from Dish's set will be particularly successful. Suggestions to obtain keys by having receivers call Dish are impractical, since this would require all non-yellow card receivers (of which there are undoubtedly several million) to call Dish every time the keys changed, and since the system is compromised, the keys can just be pulled off as always.

If you'll note, this is what DirecTV eventually wound up doing, essentially killing their old system, so that anything relying on this was rendered useless. Dish would have to do the same thing, but they have to make sure that everyone can be upgraded first, and that takes time (and for some really old receivers, may not be possible).


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes the only problem is that Nagravision II has already been widely compromised in Europe... American hackers are adpating what the europeans know to Dish network cards. just they are taking there time as there no rush get it done.


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## Mike123abc (Jul 19, 2002)

stonecold said:


> Yes the only problem is that Nagravision II has already been widely compromised in Europe... American hackers are adpating what the europeans know to Dish network cards. just they are taking there time as there no rush get it done.


Where has this happened? This sounds like what the hackers said about the DIRECTV P4 card when it turns out they were hacking the old stream being emulated by the P4 card, not the new encryption standard. Be realistic, Echostar would not pay millions of dollars to swap out all the cards to a system that they know is already easy to pirate.


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## FarNorth (Nov 27, 2003)

ypsiguy said:


> Eventually, I think Dish will require that the receiver at least periodically is hooked up to a phone line for verification. Two-way communication would kill most of the pirate boxes.


That will be impossible as more and more people go totally wireless.


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Mike123abc said:


> Where has this happened? This sounds like what the hackers said about the DIRECTV P4 card when it turns out they were hacking the old stream being emulated by the P4 card, not the new encryption standard. Be realistic, Echostar would not pay millions of dollars to swap out all the cards to a system that they know is already easy to pirate.


No the references mention about the Nagra II were in systems were the company now only transmitts nagra II encryption now and apparently things are still ok.

Dish net hackers will not have a problem programing the card it is getting pass the front door. as the europeans nagra II cards back door does not wokr on DN cards. But al lthe Key command packets from the european cards when sent to a dish network card do give the proper reponse back.

The problem with pirates and the DTV p4 cards are they are still trying to still trying to do thinks the easy way instead of trying to think.


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## jrbdmb (Sep 5, 2002)

justalurker said:


> E* will do whatever is needed to keep a customer happy. JL


Now, I wouldn't go that far ....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

jrbdmb said:


> justalurker said:
> 
> 
> > E* will do whatever is needed to keep a customer happy. JL
> ...


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2004)

Get Pansat Fta Receiver And Get All Open Channels Without Worry . Will Do The Job Without Any Confusion To Program Cards . I Am Up And Running With Too Many Channels . Im Up While The Hackers Are Trying To Program The P4 Which Will Not Happen Anytime Soon If It Happens At All !!


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I thought FTA receivers only tuned in DVB MPEG-2 stations and not the signal type that DirecTv uses (legitimate ones is what I am talking about).


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## Darkman (Apr 16, 2002)

He wasn't talking Direct TV signal...


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2004)

FTAISFOREVER said:


> Get Pansat Fta Receiver And Get All Open Channels Without Worry . Will Do The Job Without Any Confusion To Program Cards . I Am Up And Running With Too Many Channels . Im Up While The Hackers Are Trying To Program The P4 Which Will Not Happen Anytime Soon If It Happens At All !!


Yeah till Dishnetwork and Bell Express move to Nagravision2...you are SOL. And your $300 will be a good doorstopper


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I heard somewhere that it is legal to receive any unscrambled or unencrypted broadcast. My understanding is the audio on both E* and D* is sent in the clear. I would think that means the audio music on dish can legally be received using a standard fta box.



justalurker said:


> ...Many think that all unscrambled channels are free, just because one doesn't have to pay. ...
> JL


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## BabaLouie (Apr 2, 2004)

kb7oeb said:


> I heard somewhere that it is legal to receive any unscrambled or unencrypted broadcast. My understanding is the audio on both E* and D* is sent in the clear. I would think that means the audio music on dish can legally be received using a standard fta box.


I don't know about D*, but I get lots of unscrambled E* music channels on my FTA receiver...also some off of ExpressVu....


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> I heard somewhere that it is legal to receive any unscrambled or unencrypted broadcast.


Do you believe EVERYTHING you read on the internet? :lol:

I wish old threads would expire.
Anyways ...

JL


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

D* does not encrypt the audio on any channel. E* encrypts the audio on all channels which have video encryption and many of the audio only channels.

BTW: It is getting so bad the hackers can't tell which channels are encrypted and which ones are FTA. Someone reported the Free Preview channel was Mpeg2 clear.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

So basically D* FTA would be as good as satellite radio in some cases, be just like getting free Sirius/XM saving the subscription fees.


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## JohnH (Apr 22, 2002)

Jacob S said:


> So basically D* FTA would be as good as satellite radio in some cases, be just like getting free Sirius/XM saving the subscription fees.


Depends on the receiver. Most FTA receivers will not receive D* audio.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

justalurker said:


> Do you believe EVERYTHING you read on the internet? :lol:
> 
> I wish old threads would expire.
> Anyways ...
> ...


How could they go after you for receiving something they didn't bother to encrypt/scramble.

The thing I read said HBO tried to pull that in the early c-band days before they scrambled the channel


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

kb7oeb said:


> How could they go after you for receiving something they didn't bother to encrypt/scramble.


Because "they" did not authorize you to receive the signal. Not locking my car doors doesn't give you the right to jump in when I'm at a stop sign. Not locking a few of the signals does not give you the right to watch them.

Anyways, dead threads arise again and again. BCNU.

JL


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## stonecold (Feb 20, 2004)

Yeah. 

Simply put though dish is not going to come after you if you are watching the nasa channel or listening to bad music. ( sirrus is encrypted right?) Though you kinda of remind me of someone who would say well if dish didnt want me viewing there signal then they shouldnt send the signals into my back yard. 

All lame execues.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

Back in the early C-Band days, the "signals falling in my backyard" argument held water, but then the laws were changed.

JL: What's "BCNU", please?


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## onegojoe (Jul 8, 2004)

If the DBS companies are serious about stopping signal theft all they would have to do is to make a swap to all subscribers having any receiver that has an external card. The hackers have to be able to get to the card to steal the signal and the new receivers don't have any external card. They could make a deal with subscribers to replace their old receivers with new ones at a nominal exchange price. It's as simple as that and that's not too complicated.


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## Bobby94928 (May 12, 2003)

Ahem, you want ME to pay anything at all to get a box replacement! That's not going to work.


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

SimpleSimon said:


> JL: What's "BCNU", please?


Be SeeiNg yoU. Too many Prisioner replays in my mind. 

JL


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## onegojoe (Jul 8, 2004)

Bobby94928 said:


> Ahem, you want ME to pay anything at all to get a box replacement! That's not going to work.


If I had an old receiver I would be willing to exchange it with DBS if they offered a handsome discount. It would be to your advantage and also to Charlies to give you a good price. Then he would dry up the available receivers for hacking, which would be to the DBS's advantage. They have to have the old receivers with the external cards to stay in business.


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## jegrant (Mar 24, 2002)

FarNorth said:


> That will be impossible as more and more people go totally wireless.


What if E* got SBC's authorization to build new receivers that automatically "talk back" to Dish Network via a built-in cellular modem, using the nationwide Cingular network? Since Cingular bought AT&T Wireless, it is quite a large coverage area. And they could still include a wired modem for those without cell coverage.

This way, E* could guarantee that all receivers were always reporting back.


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## Orcatek (May 1, 2003)

Reporting back has some problems. Many people no longer have land lines, so there is nothing to plug the reciever into.

Now the idea of put a wireless phone service probably won't work well either. I know in my basement by cell phone dies, but that's where my family room is with the reciever. 

Also, for anybody who can answer. If E* is running both Nag I and Nag II, won't there be more bandwidth avail after they kill off Nag I. Seems to me to be more likely they are still running only Nag I and the new cards can do both so when they are ready they can throw the switch.


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## rvd420 (Mar 10, 2003)

Orcatek said:


> Reporting back has some problems. Many people no longer have land lines, so there is nothing to plug the reciever into.
> 
> Now the idea of put a wireless phone service probably won't work well either. I know in my basement by cell phone dies, but that's where my family room is with the reciever.
> 
> Also, for anybody who can answer. If E* is running both Nag I and Nag II, won't there be more bandwidth avail after they kill off Nag I. Seems to me to be more likely they are still running only Nag I and the new cards can do both so when they are ready they can throw the switch.


Any more bandwidth gained from just running 1 encryption instead of 2 would be nominal. The CAS in the datastream uses very little bandwidth.

Thet MIGHT be able to save enough bandwidth to offer 1 more audio chanel


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## James Long (Apr 17, 2003)

Orcatek said:


> Reporting back has some problems. Many people no longer have land lines, so there is nothing to plug the reciever into.


That's why the solution was suggested: A built in cellphone which would be a way of talking back.

Coverage would have to improve for that to work. I have a receiver in the basement in a room with poor cellular coverage. It would be out of touch without a land line.

JL


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

Cell phone coverage in my house is tricky at best. While Sprint PCS and Nextel (and good old analog cell) will work as far as knowing if a call comes in, you better plan on using the full 3watt for reliable communications - and even then, its not guarenteed. If we want to talk on wireless - we often have to step outside on the patio. One reason why the landline will ALWAYS be available in my house - not necessarily for DBS use only, but because wireless only simply doesn't work well enough. RoadRunner / IP phones could be an option, but not necessarily any better than phoneline / DSL which I currently use.

And, while my 510 seems to call in fine, my 4900's modem is not working at all, and hasn't for the last couple years. It works fine as a receiver as long as I don't order PPV via the remote, or try the Channel100 apps that require phoneline use.


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## kb7oeb (Jun 16, 2004)

I think a cell phone in the receivers is unlikely. They would become completely reliant on another company and there are 3 different types of cell phone networks mainly in use. If they go CDMA they can use Sprint,Verizon or Alltel. GSM gets you Cingular and T-Mobile and iDen gets you Nextel.

I think a better solution would be to have ethernet or WiFi as an option. I think most people who are ready to drop their land line have some sort of always on internet like DSL or Cable. They could use USB adapters like some Tivos can do.


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## Jacob S (Apr 14, 2002)

I live in a dead zone for cell phones. Thats one reason why I dont have one.


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