# Will Tim Allens new show bomb?



## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Tim Allens new TV show premieres tonight. Yeah, I'm as surprised as everybody else . I don't think I've seen *ANY* promotion for this show. I loved Home Improvement, but I don't think I've talked to anybody that even knows he has a new TV show, much less that its premiering tonight. I don't think I've even seen him on the late night talk shows. This thing could be the next Paul Reiser show. How long did that last? Was it 1 or 2 eps? Wanna say it was 1.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

There's been a ton of promotion for the show. He was even on Monday Night Football last night pimping it. 

If you liked Home Improvement you'll like this. He himself even says it's basically a "reboot" of Home Improvement. The only differences are that he now has 2 daughters instead of 2 sons and his character doesn't do a home improvement show, he works at Bass Pro Shops.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

I have a good feeling about this one. If his Nancy Travis plays the same type of strong woman character she did in _Becker_, and Allen reprises "Tim", the chemistry should be good, IMHO.

Of course the writers will need to put funny words in their mouths.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> There's been a ton of promotion for the show. He was even on Monday Night Football last night pimping it.
> 
> If you liked Home Improvement you'll like this. He himself even says it's basically a "reboot" of Home Improvement. The only differences are that he now has 2 daughters instead of 2 sons and his character doesn't do a home improvement show, he works at Bass Pro Shops.


Lol... ah... I don't watch MNF, but on all the TV I do watch, I've seen zilch .


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Lol... ah... I don't watch MNF, but on all the TV I do watch, I've seen zilch .


You must not watch much on ABC or ESPN then. :lol:


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## trdrjeff (Dec 3, 2007)

I've seen it promo'd a pretty good amount. I'm really hoping it is good, there's such a dearth of well written good comedies that don't rely on shock humor.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

In general, the more a show is hyped, the less interested I am, and the more likely I consider it will bomb. _New Girl_ is this season's exception for me. I enjoy both Mr. Allen and Ms. Travis quite a bit but I won't be watching this one. I just don't think it's going to go very far.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> If you liked Home Improvement you'll like this. He himself even says it's basically a "reboot" of Home Improvement. The only differences are that he now has 2 daughters instead of 2 sons and his character doesn't do a home improvement show, he works at Bass Pro Shops.


He had 3 sons on "Home Improvement." 

~Alan


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## dettxw (Nov 21, 2007)

Home Improvement, the cast then and now.

http://tv.yahoo.com/slideshow/780/photos/1


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

I'm not holding out much hope for this show...

While I'd _LOVE_ for a good family comedy to do well, I just don't see it happening. Besides, it's very hard for an actor so familiar for his work on one popular comedy to do so again...

I must admit, I do love the scene where he and his character's younger daughter is messing with the oldest daughter. That's hilarious...

I'll miss Nancy Travis on "Hart of Dixie" (my favorite new show of the Fall season) though. 

~Alan


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> You must not watch much on ABC or ESPN then. :lol:


You got me there . Most of what I watch (broadcast) is on CBS and one show on NBC. The rest is USA, TNT, WB, DISC and NGC.

Guess they wouldn't talk about an ABC show .


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> In general, the more a show is hyped, the less interested I am, and the more likely I consider it will bomb. _New Girl_ is this season's exception for me. I enjoy both Mr. Allen and Ms. Travis quite a bit but I won't be watching this one. I just don't think it's going to go very far.


Whitney was seriously overhyped, but if you can take loud, abrasive woman, its kind of funny... sometimes . The closing scene last week cracked me up.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

SledgeHammer said:


> You got me there . Most of what I watch (broadcast) is on CBS and one show on NBC. The rest is USA, TNT, WB, DISC and NGC.
> 
> Guess they wouldn't talk about an ABC show .


Most of the time, no... but there are weird exceptions.

I'm impressed you're still able to watch WB... 

~Alan


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm not holding out much hope for this show...
> 
> While I'd _LOVE_ for a good family comedy to do well, I just don't see it happening. Besides, it's very hard for an actor so familiar for his work on one popular comedy to do so again...
> 
> ...


I'll give it a try. I've got it on my DVR. Hart Of Dixie? Has that been cancelled? Wasn't it like the lowest rated show EVER?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'm impressed you're still able to watch WB...


I just watch 90210 on there... haha, yeah, its pretty bad this season, but you know... sometimes you gotta watch :sure:.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

SledgeHammer said:


> I'll give it a try. I've got it on my DVR. Hart Of Dixie? Has that been cancelled? Wasn't it like the lowest rated show EVER?


HoD has not been cancelled... yet, anyway. As I stated, it's my favorite new show of the season, so the odds of it being cancelled are obviously very good.

It was created by Josh Schwartz who created "The O.C.", "Chuck," "Gossip Girl", and stars Rachel Bilson ("The O.C.", "Chuck", etc.), Scott Porter ("Friday Night Lights", "The Good Wife", etc.), Jaime King ("Gary Unmarried", "Pearl Harbor", "Bulletproof Monk", "Sin City", etc.), Cress Williams ("Friday Night Lights", "Grey's Anatomy", "Prison Break", "Veronica Mars", "E.R.", "Close To Home", "Nash Bridges", "Beverly Hills, 90210", etc.), and Tim Matheson (everything).

Until last week's episode, Nancy Travis ("Last Man Standing") was a member of the cast (she bowed out due to LMS getting picked up).

The show has a very "Doc Hollywood" vibe... which is appealing to me, and somewhat interesting considering I learned the guy who was the inspiration for the movie is from this area.



SledgeHammer said:


> I just watch 90210 on there... haha, yeah, its pretty bad this season, but you know... sometimes you gotta watch :sure:.


I watch a LOT of The CW (not 90210) programming, but I haven't seen The WB since it merged with UPN and became The CW! 

~Alan


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## fluffybear (Jun 19, 2004)

Mrs. Fluffybear loved Home Improvement so we will at least give it a try.


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## Brandon428 (Mar 21, 2007)

I thinks its a smart move. Tim Allen has been away from the spotlight for a while now. I think its very good timing.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Didn't like Home Improvement, don't like Tim Allen.

I'm hoping it bombs.


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## TBoneit (Jul 27, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> I'll give it a try. I've got it on my DVR. Hart Of Dixie? Has that been cancelled? Wasn't it like the lowest rated show EVER?


CW doesn't do good ratings. Visit the TV show area here and look at Phrelin's show ratings thread for better information.



Steve said:


> I have a good feeling about this one. If his Nancy Travis plays the same type of strong woman character she did in _Becker_, and Allen reprises "Tim", the chemistry should be good, IMHO.
> 
> Of course the writers will need to put funny words in their mouths.


I suspect it'll be good I have enjoyed both stars on TV and in the movies.



Alan Gordon said:


> I'm not holding out much hope for this show...
> 
> While I'd _LOVE_ for a good family comedy to do well, I just don't see it happening. Besides, it's very hard for an actor so familiar for his work on one popular comedy to do so again...
> 
> ...


I watched the episode last night from a earlier recording where she announced she was leaving in Glorious 720 x 480 SD Widescreen from my HDD equipped DVD Recorder. Overflow catcher from basic cable in Clear QAM. The quality looked pretty good too. recorded from the HD broadcast.

Maybe why they wrote her out was to go to this show?

Hopefully she didn't jump from good to bad.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

TBoneit said:


> CW doesn't do good ratings. Visit the TV show area here and look at Phrelin's show ratings thread for better information.


Which is odd to me, since I generally find the majority of their programming to be more appealing than the majority of NBC's programming... who, granted isn't doing very well either, but still considerably better than The CW.

Don't get me wrong, I like some of NBC's comedy shows, but the only show I truly care about is "Chuck." They have a few upcoming series that looks interesting, so maybe that'll change, but I'm not holding my breath.



TBoneit said:


> Maybe why they wrote her out was to go to this show?
> 
> Hopefully she didn't jump from good to bad.


That's exactly why they wrote her out.

Nancy Travis had the somewhat rare honor of being in two pilots that were picked up to series. She had to make the choice, and given that "Last Man Standing" is on a more popular network (ABC), and gets a higher profile character second only to a very successful TV star, she most likely felt it was the way to go.

Of course, contractual issues may have been involved in the decision as well.

~Alan


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Steve said:


> If his Nancy Travis plays the same type of strong woman character she did in _Becker_,


Well, that lets me out. She's why I stopped watching Becker. I can watch the Terry Farrel episodes, but she she leaves, so do I.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> He had 3 sons on "Home Improvement."
> 
> ~Alan


Ok, well however many boys he had on Home Improvement he has that many girls on the new show.


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

SayWhat? said:


> Well, that lets me out. She's why I stopped watching Becker. I can watch the Terry Farrel episodes [...]


Ya. I liked Terry Farrel (and Savio Guerra) much better than their replacements. That said, I think Nancy Travis has the potential to make a good "Abbot" to Tim Allen's "Costello", if that's where the writers want to go.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Ok, well however many boys he had on Home Improvement he has that many girls on the new show.


Gotcha! Strangely enough, I only remember two of them from the commercials.



Steve said:


> Ya. I liked Terry Farrel (and Savio Guerra) much better than their replacements. That said, I think Nancy Travis has the potential to make a good "Abbot" to Tim Allen's "Costello", if that's where the writers want to go.


Yeah, I think the show went downhill when Terry Farrell left... and continued with Saverio Guerra. Nothing against Nancy Travis (whose work I do enjoy) and Jorge Garcia ("The Hurl-Man"), but shows often go downhill when they lose cast members who helped make the show what it was.

I've liked Nancy Travis ever since "Greedy". 

~Alan


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

SledgeHammer said:


> I'll give it a try. I've got it on my DVR. Hart Of Dixie? Has that been cancelled? Wasn't it like the lowest rated show EVER?


We'll give Tim a try. But we'll also be recording it. Over the season, live viewers will probably be watching "NCIS" or "Glee" so it is not going to get great ratings. And Allen, 58, and Nancy Travis, 50, and Hector Elizondo, 74, don't offer much hope for attracting _a large_ 18-49 crowd.

Regarding "Hart of Dixie," which is the only The CW show we record and actually watch, it's getting average ratings for that network this year. Unfortunately for The CW and maybe "Hart of Dixie," except for "Vampire Diaries" on Thursday the network's entire schedule is in the ratings tank even for The *C*ute *W*omen network. I'm hoping they'll keep "Hart" around for at least 13 episodes as we're putting together a playlist of songs from it - see my thread "Hart of Dixie". Great Southern/Country/Blues/Folk soundtrack.


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

I also didn't know anything about it until I saw a commercial for it. I very rarely watch anything on ABC.


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## AntAltMike (Nov 21, 2004)

RunnerFL said:


> Ok, well however many boys he had on Home Improvement he has that many girls on the new show.


Then that's a problem. There is a saying in the sitcom business: "Kids aren't funny. Sex is funny." Kelsey Grammer had it written right into his Frazier contract that no kids would become regular characters on the show.

I watched Home Improvements during its first year or so, but when I tried surfing into it a few years later, there were too many poignant moments involving kids. I grew up watching sitcoms back when sex was taboo and nearly all successfull comedy shows had kids. The Andy Griffin Show, Make Room for Daddy, Leave it to Beaver, My Three sons. For some reason, there were as many shows with no mother as there were with complete families.

But once Three's Company ushered in the "anything goes" era of "adult content", we rapidly found that kids weren't as funny as sex. The only kids we laughed at were horny kids like Bud Bundy and Erkyl or however you spell it. Kirk Cameron wound up leaving Growing Pains because the writers insisted on involving him in sexual situations, and when the show replaced him with Leo DiCaprio, they wouldn't give him any material.

The only other sitcoms I can think of that succeeded since then giving prominent roles to kids were Full House and maybe the Bill Cosby Show. While sitcoms have laugh tracks, Full House had "Aw..." tracks. A kid would do something adorable and we would hear the studio recorded audience go "Aw..." Me, I'm not big on "Aw..". I prefer, "Heh heh, heh, heh, heh"

"Opie the Birdman" may have been one of the greatest episodes in TV history, but it wasn't funny. I predict this show will sink under the weight of the kids if it features them


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

^^ With the exception of some shows like Boy Meets World and a few other 'teen' shows, I don't watch shows with kids. If a main character goes into baby mode, I'm out. At least for a while. Even with favorites like Married With Children where the whole "Seven" story arc was a sort of inside joke almost and the 'preggosaurus' (as Al coined the phrase) arc with Peg and Marcy were primarily failures. A story line turns to babies and/or pre-teen kids and I hit the mute button or change channels.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

I don't want to burst any bubbles, but ABC's highest rated scripted show is "Modern Family" which is full of kids including a baby. It ranked 3rd among broadcast network comedies in the 18-49 demo last week behind "Two and a Half Men" and "Big Bang Theory."


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## Steve (Aug 22, 2006)

_Modern Family_ is :up:, IMHO. Laugh out loud funny! :lol:


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

I hope it does well and will watch the first two or three to give it a chance.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

AntAltMike said:


> Kirk Cameron wound up leaving Growing Pains because the writers insisted on involving him in sexual situations, and when the show replaced him with Leo DiCaprio, they wouldn't give him any material.


I think you are a little mixed up on the facts here . Kirk Cameron became a born again christian about half way through and protested a lot of the sexual situations. He didn't quit or get fired or get replaced. They did kind of push him into the background, but not for Leonardo DiCaprio. They started pushing Jeremy Miller into the foreground. He basically became the star of the show for a season or two. They brought in DiCaprio, but he did a short arc with Cameron and then spent the rest of the season as the #2 to Miller. He left the show after less then one season.

Urkel, man... well, he turned a 2 minute guest appearence into 7yrs of being the star, so whether you hate him or like him, he did great for himself and kept Family Matters on the air way longer then it would have lasted without him. Sure he is typecast now, but most sitcom stars get typecast.

Getting back on topic, I will always see Tim Allen as Tim "The Toolman" Taylor, so I'm hoping this show keeps him in that character.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Part of what made "Home Improvement" great was Richard Karn's Al Borland as a foil for Allen's character. I'll be curious to see who has that role, as without it the new show might be weak.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

^ I wonder who will always have part of their face hidden.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> Urkel, man... well, he turned a 2 minute guest appearence into 7yrs of being the star, so whether you hate him or like him, he did great for himself and kept Family Matters on the air way longer then it would have lasted without him. Sure he is typecast now, but most sitcom stars get typecast.


Nope, not typecast at all. He played a prison inmate on the House season premiere this year.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

AntAltMike said:


> Then that's a problem. There is a saying in the sitcom business: "Kids aren't funny. Sex is funny." Kelsey Grammer had it written right into his Frazier contract that no kids would become regular characters on the show.


With all due respect to "Frasier," a show I thoroughly enjoyed, I disagree.

Now I realize that many disagree, but living below the Mason Dixon line, one of the common complaints I hear about TV is "too much sex." I know many people who have simply stopped watching TV due to this, or only watch sporting events, the local news & Fox News.

I personally watch quite a wide range of programming, including some whose comedy is quite risqué, but I lament the lack of GOOD family programming on the air today. I'm not saying "Last Man Standing" will be one, but I'd LOVE to see quality family programming like I grew up take up at least a little bit of the 24-hour programming spread across 100s of channels.

~Alan


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

Alan Gordon said:


> Now I realize that many disagree, but living below the Mason Dixon line, one of the common complaints I hear about TV is "too much sex." I know many people who have simply stopped watching TV due to this, or only watch sporting events, the local news & Fox News.


Well, I feel there's too much violence in sports, the news and most movies.

I'd much rather see a lot more T&A and a lot less TKOs.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I've yet to see a show or movie with too much sex or violence.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

SayWhat? said:


> Well, I feel there's too much violence in sports, the news and most movies.
> 
> I'd much rather see a lot more T&A and a lot less TKOs.


As do I, but strangely, that's not the way most people here feel. 

I'll never forget going to see "Iron Man" at the theater, and watch a woman with her 2-4 year old daughter... covering her daughter's eyes whenever RDJ and Leslie Bibb were in bed together (or the flight attendants dancing on the plane), but not when the terrorists were getting burned alive with flame throwers, or shot with bullets, or any of the violence in the movie.

Not saying the suggestive behavior was appropriate for a 2-4 year old girl, but rather that there were multiple aspects of the film that was inappropriate, but that she was strangely focused on specific types of content.

I also know a woman who wouldn't let her teenage boys watch a movie because it had a topless woman in it, yet she had no problem with the decapitations, and other frequent occasions of gore.

It's a weird double standard that is quite common here. 



spartanstew said:


> I've yet to see a show or movie with too much sex or violence.


:lol:

~Alan


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

spartanstew said:


> I've yet to see a show or movie with too much sex or violence.


You've never seen Saw?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

All 7 of them.


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## sigma1914 (Sep 5, 2006)

SayWhat? said:


> You've never seen Saw?


Excellent series! Again, there's no such thing as too much sex or violence in TV or film.


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## Galaxie6411 (Aug 26, 2007)

Looks like they are airing the Pilot again Friday, I decided to start a timer for it. Off the top of my head I don't think I watch any sitcoms of the big 4 so maybe this will be one. The cable channels are just producing far superior stuff, watching Bored To Death season premier as I type.

Edit: I knew there had to be at least 1 and there is: Community.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Ugh... this show sucked. I think I might have slightly giggled once in the first half hour before giving up. I really wanted to like this show. Oh well.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> I've yet to see a show or movie with too much sex or violence.


Ditto!


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

Alan Gordon said:


> I'll never forget going to see "Iron Man" at the theater, and watch a woman with her 2-4 year old daughter... covering her daughter's eyes whenever RDJ and Leslie Bibb were in bed together (or the flight attendants dancing on the plane), but not when the terrorists were getting burned alive with flame throwers, or shot with bullets, or any of the violence in the movie.
> 
> Not saying the suggestive behavior was appropriate for a 2-4 year old girl, but rather that there were multiple aspects of the film that was inappropriate, but that she was strangely focused on specific types of content.
> 
> I also know a woman who wouldn't let her teenage boys watch a movie because it had a topless woman in it, yet she had no problem with the decapitations, and other frequent occasions of gore.


You can go all the way back and blame the Pilgrims for this. They brought their puritanical ways over here. It's the puritanical ways here in America that make stuff like this happen. It's not like this all over the world. In Europe for instance you'd probably find a mother doing the opposite and covering her daughter's eyes during the violence. Sex and nudity are on regular television in most of Europe and violence is frowned upon. In a country like Italy you'd find topless women in a family show.


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## Herdfan (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't dislike kids on shows, but not a big fan of babies. A baby killed Mad About You and another show I can't think of right now.

If you like sex and violence in your shows, check out Strike Back on Cinemax. It has plenty of both.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

RunnerFL said:


> Nope, not typecast at all. He played a prison inmate on the House season premiere this year.


So when he showed up on your screen you didn't say "Hey! That Urkel!" ?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

sigma1914 said:


> Excellent series! Again, there's no such thing as too much sex or violence in TV or film.


Saw, Saw II and Saw III, yeah, they were. Saw 4, 5 and 6, not so much. Kind of hard to make it good when the star is dead.


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## SayWhat? (Jun 7, 2009)

SledgeHammer said:


> Saw, Saw II and Saw III, yeah, they were. Saw 4, 5 and 6, not so much. Kind of hard to make it good when the star is dead.


Those are the ones that should be XXX Rated with restricted viewing on special blockable channel ranges. Not the ones showing people enjoying themselves in pleasurable activities.


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

Well, the numbers are in 12.9M for the 1hr premiere. Good enough for #2 for the night, but not spectacular in the 18-49.


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

SledgeHammer said:


> So when he showed up on your screen you didn't say "Hey! That Urkel!" ?


No, I honestly didn't recognize him as Urkel at first. I knew I recognized him but wasn't sure where from. I had to look him up.


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## makaiguy (Sep 24, 2007)

Sorry to drag this back from philosophical discussions of sex, violence, chain saws, and type casting, but ....

I thought Tim Allen's first two shows were okay, not great. Looks like they're trying to combine Tim-the-Toolman's macho baloney with a sort of watered down Archie Bunker character. If the writers do it right as they get more comfortable with the character, they might make this work. So far the kids are just there to be foils for Tim's shtick. But I expect some of you are right -- we're destined for some "very special" episodes about the kids as they run out of ideas for Tim.

Maybe I've just been sensitized to it by a recent thread here, but I thought the laugh track was awful.


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## phrelin (Jan 18, 2007)

Interesting rating tidbit - _Female 18-49_ 4.2/11 & _Male 18-49_ 3.0/9. Maybe baseball playoffs?


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Herdfan said:


> I don't dislike kids on shows, but not a big fan of babies. A baby killed Mad About You and another show I can't think of right now.


Mork and Mindy?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

spartanstew said:


> Mork and Mindy?


Jonathan Winters was awesome as Mearth!


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

makaiguy said:


> Sorry to drag this back from philosophical discussions of sex, violence, chain saws, and type casting, but ....
> 
> I thought Tim Allen's first two shows were okay, not great. Looks like they're trying to combine Tim-the-Toolman's macho baloney with a sort of watered down Archie Bunker character. If the writers do it right as they get more comfortable with the character, they might make this work. So far the kids are just there to be foils for Tim's shtick. But I expect some of you are right -- we're destined for some "very special" episodes about the kids as they run out of ideas for Tim.
> 
> Maybe I've just been sensitized to it by a recent thread here, but I thought the laugh track was awful.


I only watched the first half hour, but really the only part that made me even remotely crack a smile was when he comes into the office and says ".... MAN, this place smells like balls!" or something like that and the blonde guy takes a deep whiff and smiles.

I loved Home Improvement, but already gave up on this show.


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## tonyd79 (Jul 24, 2006)

If they were trying to redo Tim the Toolman, they missed by a mile. Tim was a well meaning bumbler who had mistaken ideas on life but was willing to learn. He was a bit phony macho but with a soft heart. The guy on this show is harsh. He is too angry. He may soften but he is way too harsh. The second episode was better than the first (as pilots often suck) but they need to make him more like the Toolman and let his angry side only show when doing the video catalog things.

As for catalogs....uh??? Catalogs are bigger than ever. And 99% of internet sales sites are electronic catalogs. How far off can the premise of his job be?


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## SledgeHammer (Dec 28, 2007)

I dunno if I thought he was too harsh, I just thought the show was completely unfunny. I didn't hate any of the actors, but did notice that there was zero chemistry. On HI, they were a believable family from eps 1. On this show, they all felt like strangers. People still get catalogs? Really? I buy everything online.


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## trdrjeff (Dec 3, 2007)

Was not impressed but will give it another shot or two...

And Merth was some of the funniest stuff on Mork & Mindy


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