# 510 deletes programs



## led (Dec 11, 2007)

Hi,
I have a dvr 510 and have never had a problem until now.
I use the record function quite often and then we watch the shows later.
It has at least 40-50 hours of time remaining all the time. I also have it set up to automatically download software updates. 
I just noticed that 4 or 5 old movies I had recorded and protected are gone.
I'm not sure how long they have been missing, maybe 3-4 weeks. Could a new software version download erase programs? 
No one erased them, because the don't show up in the past schedule of recordings. They just vanished. One was a Pay Per View movie we haven't watched yet. The others were were standard broadcast movies.
I know they are gone for good, but I want to make sure this doesn't happen again. 
I called Dish and they are sorry. No clue otherwise. 
Thanks,
Del


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

led said:


> It has at least 40-50 hours of time remaining all the time. I also have it set up to automatically download software updates.
> I just noticed that 4 or 5 old movies I had recorded and protected are gone.
> I'm not sure how long they have been missing, maybe 3-4 weeks. Could a new software version download erase programs?


Yes. There were reports recently (do search) of a recent upgrade deleting all content on the hard drive. You must trust DISH a lot to leave automatic downloads enabled. :lol:


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## led (Dec 11, 2007)

If I don't do automatic downloads, how would I know if a new software version causes problems? Dish isn't going to publish that. No places I have searched even know about any problems. I guess I will turn it off, and wait a month or two to download. 
What do you recommend? I absoulutely don't trust Dish at all.
Del


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## AKDishuser (Oct 18, 2006)

In case it makes you feel any better, turning off auto updates would probably not have protected you from Dish's latest DRV and timer-wrecking firmware update. Plenty of 510 owners had auto updates set to "off" only to find that Dish reset this option, then pushed down the new software. So much for giving us the "option" of refusing updates.

I'm fairly certain all the new updates we've seen since mid-winter (at least three new versions by my count) are attempts by Dish to make our DVR's software compliant with court decisions re TiVo patent infractions. And that's probably why Dish overrode your preference not to accept updates. 

If you want to take recorded content off your DVR hard drive and store it in digital form, go the the DVRExplorer Yahoo group. Only problem is that Dish has been scrambling the audio on anything recorded using newer versions of the firmware (starting this past spring). Content recorded using previous versions should transfer OK to another IDE drive. All you need is the free software the group posts in its file area, an IDE-USB cable and power source, and some skill figuring out how to set dip switches to slave the DVR drive to the hard drive in your PC. I can do it and I'm a 50-something woman so I'm sure you can too!


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## led (Dec 11, 2007)

I just checked the PVRExplorer Yahoo group. Interesting, however all the old movies that I had recorded that I would want to save were deleted by the Dish Firmware bandit. 
Next time, I think I will just transfer them to the VCR that I still have hooked up. I have a collection of really old movies on vhs tapes. We watch them maybe once a year or less. It's really easy to transfer to a VCR, except vhs tapes are getting scarce and expensive. 
I will check out the procedure for copying DVR programs to my PC also. It sounds like Dish has effectively prevented this by scrambling the audio portion. 
Thanks,
Del


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## desertvixen (Feb 24, 2008)

I have a Dish DVR510 which we no longer have service for. After disconnect my daughter was still able to watch the recorded programs and bypass the main menu. We had this sitting around for a few months and decided to try again to access the recordings and now get an error message. It hasn't been hooked up so Dish couldn't have deleted the recordings?


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## AKDishuser (Oct 18, 2006)

It's just their lousy software that is doing this. By accident. I.e. there are many bugs in the hastily-developed software that are cuasing many 510s to behave strangely.

BTW, I can still play all my recorded content -- from as far back as early 2005 -- even though my 510 is running P4.07. And fortunately I haven't lost any of this recorded content. But the timers are still acting up -- I get a different version of what's scheduled to be recorded every time I reboot and many timers aren't firing even though they are showing up in the schedule.


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

My 510 has been rock solid lately and it does have p4.07 Its been fairly stable the whole time BUT there was one time when it did delete a bunch of programs, some of which were protected as I recall. But it retained all of my OLD programs. Still have some football games on there dating back to 2004.


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## erasmu (Nov 17, 2003)

My wife uses a 510 and a 501. The 501 has not been a problem, but the 510 has deleted programs even while protected and even when there was plenty of drive space available. We got the 510 replaced, but are having the same problem with the replacement. She is trying to get the drive cleared (Dish is helping in this regard.) so we can send this one back. 

I have a 721 that is not currently being used. I thought I would hook that up for her. Is the malicious firmware a problem on the 721? Will I run into the same problems?


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## ch3 (Dec 1, 2004)

erasmu said:


> I have a 721 that is not currently being used. I thought I would hook that up for her. Is the malicious firmware a problem on the 721? Will I run into the same problems?


Dish is currently sending out notices that they are replacing 721s with leased 522s because they are not going to update the firmware in 721s (along with several other receiver models) to support the new smart cards they are in the process of sending out.

I'm not sure what Dish will do at this point if you call to re-activate a 721. I wouldn't wait too long to decide what to do with your 721, because it sounds like it is about to become worthless pretty soon.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

led said:


> If I don't do automatic downloads, how would I know if a new software version causes problems?


Come here and hear the tales from those who have already downloaded the new version.


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## erasmu (Nov 17, 2003)

ch3 said:


> Dish is currently sending out notices that they are replacing 721s with leased 522s because they are not going to update the firmware in 721s (along with several other receiver models) to support the new smart cards they are in the process of sending out.
> 
> I'm not sure what Dish will do at this point if you call to re-activate a 721. I wouldn't wait too long to decide what to do with your 721, because it sounds like it is about to become worthless pretty soon.


Oh crap! Thanks for the warning. I will probably contact Dish and see what they say. Thanks again.


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## led (Dec 11, 2007)

Hi,
It seems like Dish has been hasty and not very thorough in developing software for several of their older DVR receivers. They make so much more money off of HD programming and equipment that they really don't want to mess with standard broadcast receivers. 
The 510 has been an excellent receiver until about a year ago. They forced the download of a couple of bad software packages, and now they forced the download of P4.07. It has the same problems and more. 
They are making sure that the DVR's don't resemble TiVo's in any way. 
I guess we just have to accept the fact that Dish is not interested in our problems unless we have the newest and most expensive receivers.


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## AKDishuser (Oct 18, 2006)

and since there's no point getting an HD receiver here in Anchorage AK because so little HD programming is available and we can't see the 110 satellite, Dish is basically telling us to go *&^! ourselves. My 510 is now randomly missing all kinds of timers, even manual ones. Cable or DirectTV is looking better and better every day. DH and I plan to upgrade to a HD monitor as prices fall this winter and will not be happy viewing SD content off the 510.

Way to go, losing a market you once had a lock on, Charlie!


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## lokidan (Sep 24, 2008)

led said:


> Hi,
> It seems like Dish has been hasty and not very thorough in developing software for several of their older DVR receivers. They make so much more money off of HD programming and equipment that they really don't want to mess with standard broadcast receivers.
> The 510 has been an excellent receiver until about a year ago. They forced the download of a couple of bad software packages, and now they forced the download of P4.07. It has the same problems and more.
> They are making sure that the DVR's don't resemble TiVo's in any way.
> I guess we just have to accept the fact that Dish is not interested in our problems unless we have the newest and most expensive receivers.


Back in June '07 a similar thing happened (worse) with a software upgrade: See DBSTalk Forum "510 Deleting Old Progams w new software update" from June 01, '07.

From this thread:
"... changed internal structures of metadata of recordings to accommodate coming DRM implementation" (or copyright protection) whch resulted in scores of hours of old program deletion.

Probably due to a TiVo work-around, but I might also expect some new copy protection showing up eventually, if previous experience is any guide.

Truth is, with all of these software issues (TiVo and DRM and VOD), I'm not too surprised that programs are being deleted from new unanticipated 'features' in the software for some older models.

I'm not letting the 510 around here go into standby mode until I try to understand what's going on. 
I have two SD dvr's 510, and 625. The 625 seems fine for now.


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## lokidan (Sep 24, 2008)

desertvixen said:


> I have a Dish DVR510 which we no longer have service for. After disconnect my daughter was still able to watch the recorded programs and bypass the main menu. We had this sitting around for a few months and decided to try again to access the recordings and now get an error message. It hasn't been hooked up so Dish couldn't have deleted the recordings?


Recently, we did not have reception for our 510 for a time due to a bad thunderstorm. 
During this time, I unplugged the power cord, removed the satellite connection, plugged in the power cord , and reset the box. I thought that the 510 was safest in this configuration during the thunderstorm. Eventually I got bored and decided to see if I could still access the recordings.

I want to make this clear. Technically, the box still had service; but with no external signal input / output of any kind and after a hard reset. The rf cable with satellite signal was disconnected. I saw no reason to do a check switch. A 510 without service, no satellite signal and power unplugged for a time should be in a similar state.

When I tried to access the recordings, I also got an error message about "Data not Available." I believe that this error message may be for the lack of program guide information which had been deleted, not the recordings. The recordings were still there.

With some persistence, I got past the "Data not Available" error screen; alternating between the "Aquiring Satellite Signal" and "Error" screens by repeatedly pressing the "Cancel" button on the remote. 
Pressing the "Help" button on the aquisition screen and then "Done" also seemed to help.

Eventually, I got to the "My Recordings" menue. 
I soon discovered that the dvr time had defaulted to Monday, January 1, 12:01 A.M., but I could still access and play my old recordings.

As I remember, the box froze on the "My Recordings" list once and I had to do a reset, but generally my persistence paid off and I watched recordings all that afternoon and evening. 
That night after the thunderstorm was well over, I reconnected the 510 to the satellite input signal and downloaded the EPG again without incident.

I don't know if this will help.

Your recordings may have deleted due to ongoing problems with the 510 after you discontinued service. 
I don't know if you left the power plugged into your 510 during the past several months or not. I wish that I knew.

I can only tell you that I have had similar problems getting past error screens on an unconnected 510 to access and watch recordings and my persistence has worked, eventually.


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## ch3 (Dec 1, 2004)

I have a 2nd 508 that stopped seeing the 110 Satellite (where our locals are), so I took it and an old JVC D-VHS receiver out of service and replaced them with a 625.

I learned that I can easily get to the recordings by hitting the Menu button when the Acquiring box comes up. The menu comes right up, and once there, hitting 8 for My Recordings gets to the recordings.

I had tried using cancel in the past but it is really stubborn about trying to Acquire the satellite that's not there because it's not connected to the dish. Eventually I got past it, but it takes quite a bit of work. Then I discovered hitting the Menu button goes right to the main menu.


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## lokidan (Sep 24, 2008)

ch3 said:


> I have a 2nd 508 that stopped seeing the 110 Satellite (where our locals are), so I took it and an old JVC D-VHS receiver out of service and replaced them with a 625.
> 
> I learned that I can easily get to the recordings by hitting the Menu button when the Acquiring box comes up. The menu comes right up, and once there, hitting 8 for My Recordings gets to the recordings.
> 
> I had tried using cancel in the past but it is really stubborn about trying to Acquire the satellite that's not there because it's not connected to the dish. Eventually I got past it, but it takes quite a bit of work. Then I discovered hitting the Menu button goes right to the main menu.


Yes, of course. 
But I'll bet you didn't receive an "Error-024: ... Data not Available" message over your "Dish on Demand" menue. This is in addition to the "Aquiring Signal" box which normally appears when the signal is lost or the rf cable is disconnected.

If this happens, you have to get past the "... Data not Available" box to access the "My Recordings" list. This is a different error message than the aquiring signal box and can sit right over your "Dish on Demand" menue and "My Recordings" list.
If this happens, you have to get rid of it, before you can play your recordings.

The following seems to work: 
Go to the "Aquiring Signal" box and press "Help". A help screen will appear and then press "Done" so the operating system knows you've acknowledged the info. The screen will go black for a few seconds and the "Aquiring Signal" box will reappear. Press the "DVR" (or PVR) button twice to access "My Recordings" list.

This should get rid of the annoying error message. Simple.

I have seen this error message appear after the 510 is unplugged and disconnected from the satellite signal for a lengthy period of time (i.e. a thunderstorm). If this does not work, see additional comments in my previous posting.


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## ch3 (Dec 1, 2004)

lokidan said:


> Yes, of course.
> But I'll bet you didn't receive an "Error-024: ... Data not Available" message over your "Dish on Demand" menue. This is in addition to the "Aquiring Signal" box which normally appears when the signal is lost or the rf cable is disconnected.


You right I didn't because this box still has P3.04, before all the Dish-on-Demand crap. I didn't think to mention that - I should have.


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

I posted this elsewhere but it seems appropriate for this thread. For more than a year now, one of the two 508's I have quit accepting the "new" option on the recording menu. I can record shows weekly, daily, etc. but not "new." If I set a timer to record all "new" episodes of say "Dancing with the Stars," the 508 will accept the timer but later, within an hour or two, the timer is deleted! It is as though I never set the timer. I gave up trying to make this work and no longer bother setting "new" timers. I've tried clearing out the hard drive, deleting old recordings, rebooting and so on to no avail.


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## Blowgun (May 23, 2008)

Pete K. said:


> I've tried clearing out the hard drive, deleting old recordings, rebooting and so on to no avail.


Have you tried leaving the unit on 24/7?


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## shadough (Dec 31, 2006)

I noticed on my 510 that there is a "Dish on demand" menu item. Maybe I never really noticed it before or just didnt care, but I tried going into that option and it loaded DOD but there were 'no' movies available. Is this a future application??


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## lokidan (Sep 24, 2008)

ch3 said:


> I have a 2nd 508 that stopped seeing the 110 Satellite (where our locals are), so I took it and an old JVC D-VHS receiver out of service and replaced them with a 625.
> 
> I learned that I can easily get to the recordings by hitting the Menu button when the Acquiring box comes up. The menu comes right up, and once there, hitting 8 for My Recordings gets to the recordings.
> 
> I had tried using cancel in the past but it is really stubborn about trying to Acquire the satellite that's not there because it's not connected to the dish. Eventually I got past it, but it takes quite a bit of work. Then I discovered hitting the Menu button goes right to the main menu.


How long was your 508 box without service from Dish, while you could still play your recordings ?

I should have asked this question sooner, but the computer has been having internet problems recently.


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## ch3 (Dec 1, 2004)

lokidan said:


> How long was your 508 box without service from Dish, while you could still play your recordings ?


The 508 was taken out of service July 6, 2006 - so it's been over two years. It will still play the recordings - there's even a PPV recorded on it and it plays too.


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## lokidan (Sep 24, 2008)

shadough said:


> I noticed on my 510 that there is a "Dish on demand" menu item. Maybe I never really noticed it before or just didnt care, but I tried going into that option and it loaded DOD but there were 'no' movies available. Is this a future application??


One way to download DOD titles is to "enable" the inactivity standby mode on the 5xx box, and then to let the box go into standby mode during the night. The DOD movies wil be pushed onto the dvr during the inactivity period.

First, the inactivity standby mode must be set to "enable" from the menues screens. 
Press "Menue"... The "Inactivity Power Off" (standby mode) can be found under "System Setup" and then "Installation" on the menue screens.

Second, let the box go into standby. 
Leave the box "on" during the night. Just let the box sit, without touching the remote for about 4 hours between the hours of 1 A.M. to 5 A.M. (The Dish Logo / screen saver will appear.)
This will put the box into standby mode so that the DOD selection is downloaded.

I did this last night and downloaded two new movies into the DOD section. I laid the remote aside at 11 P.M. Thursday and the box went into standby shortly after 3 A.M. this morning (Friday 10/17/08).

So far, I haven't been able to download a movie by simply turning the box off at night. It seems to require going into "standby mode" for this to happen. 
This is with a 510 dvr and P4.07 / P407 software.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

A word of caution:
One of the problems that the 5xx boxes seems to have (in addition to bad software upgrades) is VOD programs 
pushed onto the dvr at night when standby (inactivity) mode is "enabled". 
My suspicion is that when the hdd has been poorly downloaded VOD titles overnight, the new files can begin to corrupt other recordings (your recordings); even when the hdd seems to have plenty of time left for more "user" recordings.

This function may also alter timers by disrupting the memory blocks allocated by timers for user recorded programs; 
Even when VOD movies are not shown on the DOD selection menue:

>>> Read the warning at the bottom of the "Daily Schedule" screen in black print:

>>> "_*Enable Inactivity Standby to ensure proper timer functionality.*_"

Most people don't seem to read this warning or try to understand why this is necessary.


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