# SWM8 or 16?



## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

I recently moved back to Direct from comcast, gave it a try for a year and just could not stand the equipment and quality.

Installer came out and installed a SL3 SWM with single coax from dish connected to a green label 8way splitter. They removed my 4 coax connected LNB.

I have the following equipment:
HR24-500
HR23-700 ( Never know what you will get ordering a DVR online from direct  )
R16-300
(2) H24-200
D12-100

I believe this put's me over the 8 tuner limit now. I count 9 tuners. I recently ordered a HDDRV online and they sent the HR23. Oh well live and learn.

This is a swm MRV and broadband connected install.

I received a 771 last night and was able to turn off the HR23 and tune the channel I was after on one of the H24's. This has not been a big problem as they usually are not on at the same time, but would like it to be correct.

Do I need to call Direct and get them back out to install a SWM16 setup because I am now over the 8 tuner limit?


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes. You are correct in that you have more than 8 tuners and the SWM LNB will not serve that. Call and have them do it correctly.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

You'll need to do something.
You either need to move to a different SWiM, a SWiM-16, a SWM8 and use a legacy port for the D12, or drop the D12 from your system to get you back to eight tuners.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

carl6 said:


> Yes. You are correct in that you have more than 8 tuners and the SWM LNB will not serve that. Call and have them do it correctly.


I think the HR23 may have shown up "after".


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I think the HR23 may have shown up "after".


Thats the way I see it as well. Just another reason against having boxes drop shipped.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

And if that is the case, then the upgrade to an SWM 16 is going to be at your expense. The installer used the correct equipment for the system he installed.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

Absolutely, the HR23 came after the fact, was expecting an HR24 from directtv. The install to the best of my knowledge was done correctly to begin with. 

If direct wants us to operate in a supported swm environment with MRV, then their systems need to detect what is required, they have all the information they need. They know I have MRV, they know what configuration they installed. They also know the limitations of the configurations they install. They also have all the needed information to know when that limit is exceeded and needs to be changed to avoid issues, both time and labor on their side and the customer sat. side. 
The other alternative is to require a service call to add a receiver to a swm install. just my .02cents

Thanks for the responses. I will get it sorted now that I understand the configuration limitations.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

veryoldschool said:


> You'll need to do something.
> You either need to move to a different SWiM, a SWiM-16, a SWM8 and use a legacy port for the D12, or drop the D12 from your system to get you back to eight tuners.


Should there be a legacy port or ports available to segment off the D12 and R16. What would that config look like and what equipment would I need?

Thanks

...


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

There are legacy ports on the SWiM16 and they are labeled. This thread should help a little:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=172052


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Just rereading your post... you can put Band Stop Filters on the D12 and R16 if you need to, they are SWiM compatible. The legacy ports are really for receivers that are not SWiM compatible.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

901racer said:


> Should there be a legacy port or ports available to segment off the D12 and R16. What would that config look like and what equipment would I need?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


Thanks for the SWM16 reference and I understand the legacy port usage with it. I was inquiring to SWM8 reference and legacy port. If I can only accomplish that with a SWM16, I know what needs to be done.

Thanks


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

901racer said:


> Thanks for the SWM16 reference and I understand the legacy port usage with it. I was inquiring to SWM8 reference and legacy port. If I can only accomplish that with a SWM16, I know what needs to be done.
> 
> Thanks


The SWM8 has three legacy ports for SD use only.


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## BattleZone (Nov 13, 2007)

Be aware:

You cannot run an external SWM device from a SWM LNB; you'd need a legacy LNB and 4 lines from it to the external SWM. A SWM8 would serve you today, but if you think your needs might increase in the future, especially if you might go all-HD, really consider the SWM16.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

Thanks to everyone, just a great forum and information. I will probably go the swm16 route on this. I plan to contact direct and see what they will do. If I do this myself I plan to do it the supported fashion from the information on this site.

Thanks..


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

D* came out this afternoon to install the new LNB and the SWM16. I was at work at the time, so wife was at home with the installation guy.

When I got home most receivers are getting a 771 and artifacts intermittently on the screen.

Went upstairs to check out what had been done. The stairway to the attic had been left down most of the day. oh well.

here is how they hooked up the swm16.

4 lines from dish to swm16 look ok to me.

one of the swm16 outputs goes to a two way splitter where one looks to be a dc power input signal, this is connected to a spare coax going to a bedroom with nothing on the other end of it connected. The other split runs to my green label 8way splitter that has all but one dvr connected to it.

The other swm16 output goes about 50 feet to the 29volt pi then looks back out and runs directly to my downstairs HR24 DVR.

I know the two way splitter with the pi input that goes no where is wrong and should be removed and connected directly to the swm16 output.

Can you power a swm16 correctly via a pi just going into one of the outputs as mentioned above or should it not go to the dcpwr input on the swm16?

I am sure I will let them sort their own mess out.


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## Scott Kocourek (Jun 13, 2009)

Are you saying that there are two Power inserters on the SWiM-16?


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

Only one .. looped inline on one of the the two ouputs on the swm16 but not connected to the dcpwr output on the swm16.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

There are two ways to power it:
one is this way:










And the other is through the first output.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

veryoldschool said:


> There are two ways to power it:
> one is this way:
> 
> 
> ...


That is what I was expecting, the pi is inline on one of the green lines in your picture and nothing connected where your red power line is noted.


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## dsw2112 (Jun 13, 2009)

901racer said:


> ...the pi is inline on one of the green lines in your picture and nothing connected where your red power line is noted.


That's ok as long as it's connected to the SWM1 port, and not the SWM2.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

901racer said:


> That is what I was expecting, the pi is inline on one of the green lines in your picture and nothing connected where your red power line is noted.


As you can see SWiM #1 also says "pwr".
It also sound like you could remove the 2-way splitter and go straight to the "red line", which would reduce the signal loss of the splitter.

"Myself", I'd swap receivers around between the two outputs to balance the two, but each will take 8 tuners, so this isn't required.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

I just noticed that in the picture it looks as if the first port is a swm/pwr port and that is where it is connected. I assume the power connection might be valid then? 

The two way splitter on the other port that then connects nowhere on one side then to my 8way on the other should be corrected I assume. He may have been trying to power it like a swm8 but did not undo the splitter and extra cable. ... not sure.

Thanks .. I will let them have another go at it tomorrow. If still not correct, I will run the pi directly to the pwr port and put two 4way green label splitters on each side and balance out the swm's if they do not.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

Just noticed that the dish setup on my receivers were still set to Swinline-3s. Is this correct now that the new lnb and the swm16 was installed?


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

As VOS mentioned, balance the tuners among the SWM1 and SWM2 outputs. Even though the SWM16 can handle up to 16 tuners, each output itself can only handle up to 8. Since you mention that SWM1 only has a coax that goes to a bedroom with no receiver, it appears the tech put all 9 tuners on the SWM2 output, which will not work.

- Merg


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

I have 7 tuners on output2 swm16->2way splitter->8way spltter and 2 tuners on output1 swm16->pI->HR24. 

Just curious if the receivers dish settings need to be changed as I have a new 4 output lnb and the swm16 connected? It is currently set for swimline-3s. 

I will get it balanced but will give D* one more shot at fixing this today.


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## inkahauts (Nov 13, 2006)

I would redo the setup and make sur it choose the right setup. Its possible he hooked up a 5 lnb instead of a 3, and that could be what is causing your issues..


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

I believe it is correct after taking a closer look at the LNB. It appears to be a 4 output SL3 LNB like below.










Thanks ...


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

I went ahead and re-cabled things to balance the outputs with 2 swm 4way splitter and relocated the PI to the swm16 dedicated power input. All is working great. D* did this upgrade from a single line swm8 implementation to a swm16 implementation at no cost to me other than me straighting out the swm16 cabling that the installer did.

Thanks to all for the proper configuration help and questions I had.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

I spoke too soon, the 771's are back. I have tried to isolate the problem and what I currently have is a swm16 powered via the swm16 power port. each output supplies two 4 port green swm splitters.

I had one H24 that was getting a 771 and when I ran diagnostics I received a 49-999 Primary tuner connection problem No swm channels are available. 

I powered down all receivers and swm and powered them on one at a time. 

I started the H24's first with no problem. They were on swm16-port2. Ran diagnostics and all looked good. When I started my HR24 which is on swm16 port1 it comes up clean and tests good.

When the HR24 came up it is causing the problems with the H24's and then running a test on them I get a "49-999" on both H24's.

I have removed the 4way splitter on swm16 port1 and connected the HR24 direct. powered everything down and I get the same result with the two H24's. btw the other H23-700, D12, and R16 DVR work fine with the swm and have never had a problem with reception or connectivity with them.

If I power down the HR24 while the H24's are having the problem it immediately clears the H24 issues. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks ...


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

"Thoughts":
This doesn't sound like a SWM-16, since the two outputs are from completely different SWM sections inside the switch. There is NO interaction between the two sections.
A SWM8 also has two outputs BUT they both connect to the same SWM.

Please take a photo of your SWM and post it.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

Photo's attached below of the swm16.

I moved the HR24 and both H24's to the same output port on the swm16 and it cleared the problem. If I seperate them across the output ports in any combination it causes the above mentioned problem.. I'm at a loss unless the swm16 is bad. Sorry about the bad iphone photo's.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

That sure is a SWiM-16, so what makes the most sense right now is that you're somehow mixing up which receiver is connected to which output.

You can check the SWM screen under the setup menu/sat levels/SATs.
You'll see nine SWM channels.
#1 is the guide, so the next eight are for the tuners. For every zero you see, this is a channel used by another tuner.
If you move every receiver onto the same SWM screen, there will be no zeros. Each time a receiver exits the setup screen, it will take a tuner or two and this will show up as a zero on the other receivers still on the SWM screen.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

I verified by unplugging the coax at the swm for the HR24 and the H24's then check the screens one at a time as I unplugged them. 

If I move the HR24 only coax to output1 and leave the H24's on output2 I get the error above. If I move them together on the same output the error on the H24's disappear. 

Only the H24/HR24 being separated across the ports seem to cause the problem. 

I can move the HR23-700, D12, and D16 anywhere between the two ports and not cause a problem with the swm.

Also note that when I was isolating the problem. I only had one HR24 and two H24's powered up all others had the coax unplugged at the splitter and power cords unplugged from the receivers.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

901racer said:


> I verified by unplugging the coax at the swm for the HR24 and the H24's then check the screens one at a time as I unplugged them.
> 
> If I move the HR24 only coax to output1 and leave the H24's on output2 I get the error above. If I move them together on the same output the error on the H24's disappear.
> 
> ...


Can you make a sketch of your setup?
And please list the receivers connected to which.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Another thing that might help is which model HR24 & H24s?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

bad coax somewhere?
do not think bad lnb would present this way..


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

Here is a quick sketch of the setup. This is the configuration that is working good now with the HR24 and the two H24's on output1. The configuration that did not work was to have Bedroom 1 & 2 on output 2 swapped with Bedroom 3 & Office on output1.

Any combination of the H24's being on different output's on the swm from the HR24 does not work and gives the error on the H24's, the HR24 continues to work fine, but it seems to be the culprit when it powers up and grabs the swm tuners. I have tried this with only the H24's connected on the output2 side with no other receivers and the HR24 connected directly into the output1 port.

Right now it is not an issue for me as the posted config is working well but if I were to add an H24 to output2 I will see the same error. It seems that only the Hx24's are the only receivers to exhibit this strange behavior if they are split across output1 and output2. Just does not make a lot of sense to me right now, and am trying to understand what I don't understand about how the swm is working.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

There isn't an H23-700, but is an H23-600 & HR23-700.

So if the H24s move over to the other SWM output they go 771?
I can't know for sure, but there is something going on [other than this thread] with SWiMs & H24s. It seems to be some kind of compatibility problem that is being investigated.

Side note:
You have put the BSFs on the R16 & D12 right?


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

You are correct. If the H24's are moved over they go 771. 

The noted H23-700 should be a HR23-700 (sorry mislabeled)

All the coax is less than a year old Quad Shield RG6 with compression fittings. Worked great with comcast for the last year until I switched back to D*

Should I assume this is firmware in the H24's and keep things as is until it is fixed?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

901racer said:


> You are correct. If the H24's are moved over they go 771.
> 
> The noted H23-700 should be a HR23-700 (sorry mislabeled)
> 
> Should I assume this is firmware in the H24's and keep things as is until it is fixed?


"Assuming" can be dangerous.
I don't think this is a SWM problem, but if I were you, I'd want to know the SWiM-16 is fully functional. Since each output is a separate SWM, I'd load each output [one at a time DUH] to the full eight tuner load and make sure everything works. Then switch over to the other output and load it full.
If, as I suspect, there are no problems, then I'd count on the SWiM-16 as being good and know this has more to do with the 24s. You've got 90 days Warranty on the 24s, so "I might" be looking for them to be swapped with another maker's 24s.

I see you added something about your coax. "If" it had a problem, you could check this by swapping receivers around and if this only happened at one location [or more, but the same], then I would look at the coax.


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## Shades228 (Mar 18, 2008)

901racer said:


> You are correct. If the H24's are moved over they go 771.
> 
> The noted H23-700 should be a HR23-700 (sorry mislabeled)
> 
> Should I assume this is firmware in the H24's and keep things as is until it is fixed?


No it's not a receiver issue this would be a splitter, connection, or switch error. The other receivers have BS filters on them correct when you move the H24's to the other line with non HD equipment on it.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Shades228 said:


> No it's not a receiver issue...


Don't be so quick to dismiss the problems that the H24s ARE HAVING.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

The D12 and the R16 has BS Filters on them that is correct. I have also put one H24 on output2 directly by itself and one HR24 on output1 directly by itself and can generate the same problem. I also tried both H24's in this scenario and both went 771 when the HR24 came up and grabbed the SWiM.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

901racer said:


> The D12 and the R16 has BS Filters on them that is correct. I have also put one H24 on output2 directly by itself and one HR24 on output1 directly by itself and can generate the same problem. I also tried both H24's in this scenario and both went 771 when the HR24 came up and grabbed the SWiM.


"Yeah" I read your posts. 
I haven't heard what's going on with the H24s, other than "something they're looking into". Seems like your two are of the same type.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

Thanks .... very strange


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

shot in the dark here and probably wrong, but when you did this (above) did you use existing coax or 2 different pieces to do it to take your existing coax out of equation?


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

When I was connecting the H24s and HR24 directly to the outputs, I did take one of the H24s and use a new piece of coax ( one of them was really close ) just to satisfy myself it was not a coax issue.

I will load each swm side to the 8 tuner max and make sure it operates correctly. 

I really hate using a warranty with D* as I am not sure I will get H24s as a replacement and still not really sure its a H24 problem.

Do the separate sides of the SWiMs communicate in any way with each other or are they completely independent?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

901racer said:


> When I was connecting the H24s and HR24 directly to the outputs, I did take one of the H24s and use a new piece of coax ( one of them was really close ) just to satisfy myself it was not a coax issue.
> 
> I will load each swm side to the 8 tuner max and make sure it operates correctly.
> 
> ...


These are two SWM8s in one package. The only "connection" is a crossover path/filter for the DECA.


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## 901racer (Jan 8, 2011)

gotcha .. Thanks.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> shot in the dark here and probably wrong, but when you did this (above) did you use existing coax or 2 different pieces to do it to take your existing coax out of equation?


Hey! Look at that, you were wrong! :lol: 

That's why you don't shoot in the dark! :lol:

- Merg


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

its also why most don't use prexisting cable


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