# CSR's now saying "Staying on Ethernet is Illegal"



## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

I had planned to go the DECA way anyway when I was prepared to spend the additional money for an all new componets system so I called to investigate the possible cost's but said for now, I was going to stay with the current "Unsupported" Ethernet setup I already had. I just think it would be a wiser choice to go with a setup that D* backs as opposed to staying in a channel that is not supported in any way by D* but what I was told is That is/was not an option. Now I am not naive about the fact that this whole MRV thing is yet another grab/hook for additional money grabbing with the swapping out of boxes,charges for adapters and hookup fees so I took what my CSR (Chris) was telling me with a grain of salt knowing full well his job is really to sell not just flip switches and change account information. However, when he was explaining how and why D* was viewing staying on Ethernet only setup was considered illegle he certainly raised some very valid points about why it was allowed in Beta form and why they want to go in DECA form direction. I wont go into all the details that were explained in GREAT detail to me over the phone (conversation took over an hour) but it raised concern for me in terms of others that are staying pat with ethernet only and perhaps not aware of D* view on this and the implications for them down the line.

No, I'm not saying the D* Police are going to show up at your door to take you and all your "illegal" equipment away in fact, I actually chuckled out loud to Chris when he used that term because I'm pretty sure if I pressed him to show me this documentation of Illegality in writing that it would never come to fruition but is did solidify my decision to go with the DECA if standing pat meant I'd eventually be left in the dark as far as MRV was concered and I'd be doing this anyway down the road.

In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.

I'd appreciate any input from anyone that has the credentials to dispute this claim or at the very least explain why some are being allowed to stay with the Leaching method as opposed to the Legal D* perferred method, BTW those are both (leaching/legal)their terminology not mine.

Please don't just come in here writing I been fed hook,line and sinker and been fed the bait, I suspect that in part that is true but remember, I already knew I was going DECA way before the call. I'm just trying to find out what the long term implications will be and why they seem to be throwing all the Beta testers a changeup now (if any truth to this mindset) and why were not being forewarned about this strongly?


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## tooloud10 (Sep 23, 2007)

I was told a very similar story late last night. With no prompting from me, the supervisor told me that she knew what they were saying on "Facebook and DBStalk" but that they weren't allowing Ethernet setups and that I'd have to upgrade to the "swim" (god I hate that they call it that for some reason). She claimed that there were performance problems with the Ethernet setups.

What really pisses me off is that I begged them to install an SWM system six or eight months ago to avoid cutting up my 100-year-old house and they absolutely refused, and now they won't activate features for me unless it's done.

I'm not sure how they're managing to do so, but D* customer service is getting worse.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

Follow this thread -> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=177590 on how to get your home Ethernet MRV authorized in DirecTV's system.

Good luck.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

I feel your pain on the cutting up of your home, that is what bothered me the most about the changeover because I have so many wire buried in my walls and moved B-blockers behind walls just because they ugly in truth, stick out and gobble up shelf space. They are going to need more than a 4 hour window probably just to get started with my new install. Worst of all I'm right in the middle of painting my whole interior and laying rug thoughout my whole house and I really didn't have time allotted to spend the whole day with them!!!


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

njblackberry, thanks, yep tried all that and their not doing it anymore,,,,,,that is the "new" Illegal way. I did my homework and knew all the details about how to get it done, I was only calling to check on what it was going to cost me further down the line but when I was told email or call to stay put is/was not an option well I just had to find out what this CSR's reasoning was.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Its not illegal, its unsupported. The stories you hear from the CSRs are CSR Wives Tales. There has been no mass swarm of DVRs eating DirecTVs servers... there have been no Connected Boxes becoming a self-aware entity and doing DoS on DirecTV... its all good.

Long term, Ethernet has a role and a place in DirecTVs direction, just as DECA does.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Mrmiami, you've been fed way too much drama with not enough facts. I don't care how long Chris and you talked. I can watch a TV news channel for an hour and not get any real information.

Somewhere the concept of "unsupported" became "illegal". I love the concept that a home Ethernet setup uses more of DirecTV's resources. Exactly how is this the case? Does DirecTV store big vats of Internet that get drained down, and it flows more quickly through CAT-5 than it does RG-6? It almost sounds like that to me. Humm. I better go to the store and stock up on more Internet.

Yes, a home Ethernet setup can use more of DirecTV's resources if they have to roll trucks to fix yours or my wiring. That's why "supported" means SWiM and DECA. They can control the situation. But I don't think DirecTV is making Ethernet electrons outlaws. They are welcome in my house, at least.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

Mrmiami said:


> njblackberry, thanks, yep tried all that and their not doing it anymore,,,,,,that is the "new" Illegal way.


You tried sending them the e-mail and it was rejected?


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Mrmiami said:


> njblackberry, thanks, yep tried all that and their not doing it anymore,,,,,,that is the "new" Illegal way.


Do you have an email response or how did they contact you to state it is illegal? Its a bit odd for them to say its illegal, AFTER, they created a process to intentionally allow it...  Just saying.


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

I just Upgraded to SWM/DECA yesterday and everything is working fine!!!

I guess I don't have to worry now about the Directv Police coming to my house to arrest me!!! :lol:


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

> In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. *I don't know all the fine details on this*


bet the person who told you this could not explain how it was leeching off directv also.
traffic from box a does not go to directv server then back to box b....and a full deca setup includes an ethernet connection to vod anyway...


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line."

This part is total bunk. MRV does not go to any sort of DirecTV server, other than the DVR where the program was recorded to. Now, DirecTV on Demand does use their servers. But it still uses Ethernet, even in a DECA environment. We've been using Ethernet for on Demand for a while now. It also cannot cause problems with their servers, unless their servers can't handle the traffic. If that's the case, that's their problem, and not one that DECA can fix.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> Mrmiami, you've been fed way too much drama with not enough facts. I don't care how long Chris and you talked. I can watch a TV news channel for an hour and not get any real information.
> 
> Somewhere the concept of "unsupported" became "illegal". I love the concept that a home Ethernet setup uses more of DirecTV's resources. Exactly how is this the case? Does DirecTV store big vats of Internet that get drained down, and it flows more quickly through CAT-5 than it does RG-6? It almost sounds like that to me. Humm. I better go to the store and stock up on more Internet.
> 
> Yes, a home Ethernet setup can use more of DirecTV's resources if they have to roll trucks to fix yours or my wiring. That's why "supported" means SWiM and DECA. They can control the situation. But I don't think DirecTV is making Ethernet electrons outlaws. They are welcome in my house, at least.


Yea ok, that's helpful,,,,,,these are exactly the post I said don't bother with BUD, I am trying to get to the truth on this change of view and the exact answer about the "How" it effects thier system but thanks for your sarcasm.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

My sarcasm wasn't directed at you but at DirecTV, Mrmiami.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> bet the person who told you this could not explain how it was leeching off directv also.
> traffic from box a does not go to directv server then back to box b....and a full deca setup includes an ethernet connection to vod anyway...


Umm, actually he did so you'd be losing that bet.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

Mrmiami said:


> Umm, actually he did so you'd be losing that bet.


then he was lying. he has no idea what he is talking about and was trying to convince you he did.

edit: I also am not directing any sarcasm to you, the misinformation handed to you disgusts me.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> My sarcasm wasn't directed at you but at DirecTV, Mrmiami.


That's actually pretty funny there Carl :>) but in truth, you can actually run out of INT space- it's called a crash.


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## Sixto (Nov 18, 2005)

The DECA dongle takes the coax network ("DECA Cloud") and bridges to the Ethernet port of the HR20/21/22/23. So in effect, both scenarios are Ethernet port connected, just one uses the DirecTV cabling for the home network, and the IP address is the same when used with home network DHCP.

There has been much discussion on this topic, with presentation of advantages to the DECA configuration (support, performance, ...), along with the obvious reasons why DECA is the standard, because it utilizes the existing coax cabling, but not aware of any difference affecting anything outside the home.

It's just an IP transport mechanism within the home. An easy one.


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## njblackberry (Dec 29, 2007)

Mrmiami - did you send an e-mail and get a response from DirecTV?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

yes, external to the house there is no difference between deca and ethernet.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Sixto said:


> The DECA dongle takes the coax network ("DECA Cloud") and bridges to the Ethernet port of the HR20/21/22/23. So in effect, both scenarios are Ethernet port connected, just one uses the DirecTV cabling for the home network, and the IP address is the same when used with home network DHCP.
> 
> There has been much discussion on this topic, with presentation of advantages to the DECA configuration (support, performance, ...), along with the obvious reasons why DECA is the standard, because it utilizes the existing coax cabling, but not aware of any difference affecting anything outside the home.
> 
> It's just an IP transport mechanism within the home. An easy one.


Exactly - any DECA setup with the ethernet bridge is going to have the same access to the internet and DirecTV's servers as any ethernet setup. Those CSR's are seriously misinformed.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> then he was lying. he has no idea what he is talking about and was trying to convince you he did.


I suspected it was a line of bunk to sell this service all along but I was going DECA anyway I just didn't expect I'd have to do it right away in order to get my 6 DVR tuners back, I (we) can't go without them at this point because were using all of them up on Weds and Thurs programming. I know I could of hung up and tried another CSR but I was only calling to get an idea of what it was going to cost me down the road and use the email way to keep it same ol- same ol for now but made the decision at that time to just get it over with. I'm sure he earned some points with his Super on that sell but it wasn't a hard sell in fact he told me that when the tech calls to tell me thier coming over if they don't have the 24-500's I've requested I can cancel install at no cost. I suspect they will not have the 3 I requested so most likely will be exercising that right to cancel. At some point it will have to be done again or maybe I'll just do it myself at my convenience, who know's.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

not sure about guaranteeing receiver models either, keep an eye on that. I'd be more concerned about having proper switches and deca equipment then rec models at this point.

just be aware.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Mrmiami said:


> <snip>
> 
> In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.
> 
> <snip>


I don't really know what this paragraph means, but I'm pretty sure it's frakkin' impossible...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

njblackberry said:


> Mrmiami - did you send an e-mail and get a response from DirecTV?


No, not yet b/c I was going this way anyhow but if they fail to get the 3 24-500's I've requested (which I'm almost 100% sure they will fail) then I'll be sending the email for the time being. I do want to go the supported route though at some point but if I'm going to go all new system then it's going to be all in or nothing from them for now. I'm sure the email way will work I just didn't want the interruption in use but it'll be what it is.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

Back when I was a young buck salesman, Mrmiami, I'd make up stories on the sales floor. It wasn't to please my bosses or make points. It wasn't even to make the sale. I lied because I thought it made me sound smarter than I really was.

I think your CSR, Chris, is going through a similar period. Hopefully, soon he, too, will realize he doesn't need to tell stories to sound smart. It's enough to just tell the truth.


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## BudShark (Aug 11, 2003)

Mrmiami said:


> No, not yet b/c I was going this way anyhow but if they fail to get the 3 24-500's I've requested (which I'm almost 100% sure they will fail) then I'll be sending the email for the time being. I do want to go the supported route though at some point but if I'm going to go all new system then it's going to be all in or nothing from them for now. I'm sure the email way will work I just didn't want the interruption in use but it'll be what it is.


Well this is a completely different question and maybe some background is needed.

"Requesting" specific receivers is not an option. An HR20/21/22/23/24 are equal in the eyes of DirecTV in terms of their support for MRV. The only difference being whether you need a DECA at the device. I'm guessing you won't get 3 24s, and its not because they failed, its because thats not their policy.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

David MacLeod said:


> yes, external to the house there is no difference between deca and ethernet.


Yea, I knew he was talking out his lower region especially when I restated the fact that they are going to use the same router I'm using now to complete the internet connection that I am now currently using and I didn't see how that was in anyway different at saving bandwidth when the end result is channeled though the same way. Three receivers going out my router with my other 2 computers, his response, "well yea but that is the preferred way and the only option they offer anyone else who is doing it any other way is doing so illegally" I think I may of laughed at him again at that point but since I wanted to go that way anyhow I went forward with the change over......he just had to work much harder at getting to the inevitable ending for me.


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

deca has a lot of good selling points on its own (especially since you wanted it anyway) w/o any embellishment, just irks me when people do this to customers. 
factor in the point that they gave everyone 7 days to get converted to deca with not enough training or supplies and you see what a mess this turned out to be...
ah well, I'm done complaining now 

glad you seem to have gotten everything worked out and hope your install goes well.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

Mrmiami said:


> In short, during the Beta testing using ethernet only setups it really was taxing and eating up D* service and servers and staying on that type of network is leaching off of D* service and sucking it dry. I don't know all the fine details on this and hopefully someone here in the know can better explain this viewpoint from DirecTV's perspective but if that is their opinion now I would fully expect them to eliminate that method at somepoint down the line.
> 
> I'd appreciate any input from anyone that has the credentials to dispute this claim or at the very least explain why some are being allowed to stay with the Leaching method as opposed to the Legal D* perferred method, BTW those are both (leaching/legal)their terminology not mine.
> 
> Please don't just come in here writing I been fed hook,line and sinker and been fed the bait, I suspect that in part that is true but remember, I already knew I was going DECA way before the call. I'm just trying to find out what the long term implications will be and why they seem to be throwing all the Beta testers a changeup now (if any truth to this mindset) and why were not being forewarned about this strongly?


!rolling

The only thing taxing to D* was trying to explain to clueless folks how to connect Ethernet, and why wireless really didn't work.

They knew well before the MRV Beta that variations in customer networks and knowhow made _supporting_ Home Networks virtually impossible. And they needed a system Techs could install. They simply jumped on the MOCA bandwagon with a litte tweak and... DECA.

*All* DECA is is a different way to transport IP packets. Same _packets_ as Ethernet, same _number_ of packets as Ethernet. And with MRV, _none_ of them leave the customer's home. DECA bypasses vagaries in customer networks, limits contention for bandwidth with other home IP traffic, and potentially impliments QOS priority that may be lacking in home networks.

DECA still ultimately attaches to the customer's Ethernet network. *Any* IP traffic that flowed to D* with Ethernet still flows with DECA. They *can't* eliminate Ethernet, because they *can't tell it's there*. There is no difference between the 'u' flag for Ethernet users, and the same flag for self-installed DECA users (such as the DECA Beta testers).

Now, they will only _install_ SWiM/DECA (and even _that_ doesn't always work), and new installs will already be DECA-capable so will have no need to go the unsupported route.

So yeah, the CSR fed you a line of BS. :lol:


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## joed32 (Jul 27, 2006)

Mine was activated last week and went off yesterday. I called a CSR and got into a heated argument with him. He said now that beta is over home networks won't work anymore. I told him to try and he said he did but it won't work. After we hung up it came back on and is now "Authorized" again.

I did order DECA twice and both time the work order did not have SWM on it so no install possible. I'll try again someday. In the mean time MRV is fine.


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## leww37334 (Sep 19, 2005)

per CSR:
total DECA cost 

equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))


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## oldengineer (May 25, 2008)

leww37334 said:


> per CSR:
> total DECA cost
> 
> equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))


I had to switch packages to split Choice Extra, HD and DVR service to use MRV/DECA. The switch and installation did NOT extend my commitment. You should fight this.


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## paragon (Nov 15, 2007)

leww37334 said:


> per CSR:
> total DECA cost
> 
> equipment $162. mrv $3/month ( more when they force you to change packages, yes it happened to me) extends commitment to two years (NOT one, asked three times to make sure))





oldengineer said:


> I had to switch packages to split Choice Extra, HD and DVR service to use MRV/DECA. The switch and installation did NOT extend my commitment. You should fight this.


I did NOT have to switch packages (I still have PLUS HD DVR bundled and MRV is working after the beta shutoff) and I did NOT have my commitment extended.


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## kokishin (Sep 30, 2006)

When I get a CSR who is clueless (more times than not), I ask to speak to their supervisor. If the supervisor is clueless, then I say good bye and call back again. I would NEVER spend one hour on the phone with a clueless CSR. I estimate you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting a knowledgable CSR.



Mrmiami said:


> I had planned to go the DECA way anyway when I was prepared to spend the additional money for an all new componets system so I called to investigate the possible cost's but said for now, I was going to stay with the current "Unsupported" Ethernet setup I already had. I just think it would be a wiser choice to go with a setup that D* backs as opposed to staying in a channel that is not supported in any way by D* but what I was told is That is/was not an option. Now I am not naive about the fact that this whole MRV thing is yet another grab/hook for additional money grabbing with the swapping out of boxes,charges for adapters and hookup fees so I took what my CSR (Chris) was telling me with a grain of salt knowing full well his job is really to sell not just flip switches and change account information. However, when he was explaining how and why D* was viewing staying on Ethernet only setup was considered illegle he certainly raised some very valid points about why it was allowed in Beta form and why they want to go in DECA form direction. I wont go into all the details that were explained in GREAT detail to me over the phone (conversation took over an hour) but it raised concern for me in terms of others that are staying pat with ethernet only and perhaps not aware of D* view on this and the implications for them down the line.
> 
> No, I'm not saying the D* Police are going to show up at your door to take you and all your "illegal" equipment away in fact, I actually chuckled out loud to Chris when he used that term because I'm pretty sure if I pressed him to show me this documentation of Illegality in writing that it would never come to fruition but is did solidify my decision to go with the DECA if standing pat meant I'd eventually be left in the dark as far as MRV was concered and I'd be doing this anyway down the road.
> 
> ...


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## Hutchinshouse (Sep 28, 2006)

CSR's now saying "Staying on Ethernet is Illegal" :rolling:


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.


Well, you never know what the MPAA will do next.


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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> I think that a lot of things are illegal, but it does not mean they are.


Spoken like a true Libertarian.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)




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## anleva (Nov 14, 2007)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I remember many nights messing around with my rabbit ears antenna to try and improve the picture of Monty Python's Flying Circus.


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## pappy97 (Nov 14, 2009)

paragon said:


> I did NOT have to switch packages (I still have PLUS HD DVR bundled and MRV is working after the beta shutoff) and I did NOT have my commitment extended.


Wow, another person who has the legacy PLUS HD DVR package and they have MRV on. So how did you do it?

Others are saying they had to have a CSR change them to a current package, turn on MRV, then switch back to legacy and then they could turn MRV on.

Is that how it worked for you? If not, how did it work for you? I am wanting to turn MRV on without changing anything to programming package (which is also PLUS HD DVR).


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

You know what's totally crazy about the CSR's argument that the Ethernet taxes DirecTV's resources for MRV? It isn't even their system!

Recently I was explaining MRV to a buddy who was at my house. He looked puzzled. "So DirecTV needs for you to hook up to cable for their system to work?" Yes, I replied slowly, sensing the trap I was falling into. You could hook up to a DSL phone line, I added, but most of us use a cable modem. My buddy nodded. In case I was thick, he said, "So you have to do business with the competition to make DirecTV's MRV system work." Yes. I had to admit it does sound crazy stupid.

We accept this as part of the deal. To an outsider, it sounds contradictory. But unless you are using On Demand, DirecTV's use of Internet bandwidth outside your house is tiny. MRV simply cannot stress their system in any way. As my buddy pointed out, it isn't even _their_ system.


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## miles (Aug 31, 2007)

I called D* on May 19th and asked to continue the MRV with ethernet after the beta trial. The CSR said OK and that I would not have to do anything further.
I thought that was too easy so I called the next day on May 20th, the day the beta was supposed to end and the CSR told me I would have to get a SWM and DECA upgrade. I told him to just go to the accounts attributes and make sure the MRV option is set to unsupported then initiate the Home service for my account. He did what I told him and I now have MRV without the beta and received a confirmation email on the new service.


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## HofstraJet (Mar 6, 2003)

Uh.....only a government or an agency authorized by the government can create laws and make things illegal. Last time I checked, DirecTV was neither. :nono2:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Carl Spock said:


> You know what's totally crazy about the CSR's argument that the Ethernet taxes DirecTV's resources for MRV? It isn't even their system!
> 
> Recently I was explaining MRV to a buddy who was at my house. He looked puzzled. "So DirecTV needs for you to hook up to cable for their system to work?" Yes, I replied slowly, sensing the trap I was falling into. You could hook up to a DSL phone line, I added, but most of us use a cable modem. My buddy nodded. In case I was thick, he said, "So you have to do business with the competition to make DirecTV's MRV system work." Yes. I had to admit it does sound crazy stupid.
> 
> We accept this as part of the deal. To an outsider, it sounds contradictory. But unless you are using On Demand, DirecTV's use of Internet bandwidth outside your house is tiny. MRV simply cannot stress their system in any way. As my buddy pointed out, it isn't even _their_ system.


This is simply not true .. you don't actually NEED to connect to any router, switch or other non-DIRECTV device to get MRV to work. MRV works just fine in a self-contained environment.

Now, if you are talking about VOD, TV Apps, etc. OK, yeah, you do need to connect to the competition (really the Internet) for that.


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## DogLover (Mar 19, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> You know what's totally crazy about the CSR's argument that the Ethernet taxes DirecTV's resources for MRV? It isn't even their system!
> 
> Recently I was explaining MRV to a buddy who was at my house. He looked puzzled. "So DirecTV needs for you to hook up to cable for their system to work?" Yes, I replied slowly, sensing the trap I was falling into. You could hook up to a DSL phone line, I added, but most of us use a cable modem. My buddy nodded. In case I was thick, he said, "So you have to do business with the competition to make DirecTV's MRV system work." Yes. I had to admit it does sound crazy stupid.
> 
> We accept this as part of the deal. To an outsider, it sounds contradictory. But unless you are using On Demand, DirecTV's use of Internet bandwidth outside your house is tiny. MRV simply cannot stress their system in any way. As my buddy pointed out, it isn't even _their_ system.


And outside of a few rougue HR20-100's that have problems, MRV will work without any internet connection at all. So there is no way, in that case, that anything could "leach" resources from DirecTV.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

DogLover said:


> And outside of a few rougue HR20-100's that have problems, MRV will work without any internet connection at all. So there is no way, in that case, that anything could "leach" resources from DirecTV.





Doug Brott said:


> This is simply not true .. you don't actually NEED to connect to any router, switch or other non-DIRECTV device to get MRV to work. MRV works just fine in a self-contained environment.
> 
> Now, if you are talking about VOD, TV Apps, etc. OK, yeah, you do need to connect to the competition (really the Internet) for that.


I should have been clearer. My buddy and I were talking about doing MRV before SWiM and DECA were a nationwide reality. It had to be hooked up to a whole house Ethernet solution. In this case, we were talking about piggy-backing MRV on a system I had up and running years before I ever tried adding MRV. I guess I'm parochial in that I view my whole house wired Ethernet distribution as part of a cable Internet system. It's been that way for years (I had a wired Ethernet distribution system well before I added a wireless capability). Call me stuck in the mud. To get MRV Beta to work, I had to hook up into that system.

Yes, of course MRV could be set up in a cabin in the wilderness, with no cable, phone or other connection outside of electricity, and that could even be provided by a generator, using SWiM and DECA. It is a closed system. But since we were talking about Ethernet systems, I didn't consider that.

And as both Doug and DogLover point out, and as I well know given the very flaky nature of my cable service (I lose the Interent 2-3 times a year for most of a day or night), you don't need an active Internet connection for MRV to work.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

Carl Spock said:


> I should have been clearer. My buddy and I were talking about doing MRV before SWiM and DECA were a nationwide reality. It had to be hooked up to a whole house Ethernet solution. In this case, we were talking about piggy-backing MRV on a system I had up and running years before I ever tried adding MRV. I guess I'm parochial in that I view my whole house wired Ethernet distribution as part of a cable Internet system. It's been that way for years (I had a wired Ethernet distribution system well before I added a wireless capability). Call me stuck in the mud. To get MRV Beta to work, I had to hook up into that system.
> 
> Yes, of course MRV could be set up in a cabin in the wilderness, with no cable, phone or other connection outside of electricity, and that could even be provided by a generator, using SWiM and DECA. It is a closed system. But since we were talking about Ethernet systems, I didn't consider that.
> 
> And as both Doug and DogLover point out, and as I well know given the very flaky nature of my cable service (I lose the Interent 2-3 times a year for most of a day or night), you don't need an active Internet connection for MRV to work.


MRV can be setup with Ethernet in a closed system too. There is no reason you could not connect all your receivers to a switch and NOT connect the switch to the Internet.


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## paragon (Nov 15, 2007)

pappy97 said:


> Wow, another person who has the legacy PLUS HD DVR package and they have MRV on. So how did you do it?
> 
> Others are saying they had to have a CSR change them to a current package, turn on MRV, then switch back to legacy and then they could turn MRV on.
> 
> Is that how it worked for you? If not, how did it work for you? I am wanting to turn MRV on without changing anything to programming package (which is also PLUS HD DVR).


I didn't do anything special. I just called up and ordered a DECA upgrade and after the upgrade was done (I assume after the tech closed the work order), MRV was added to my account.

I even double checked my account history and there were no package switching shenanigans.

Here's the only stuff on my Recent History from May (the credit is them refunding my installation fee due to promising me an HR24 upgrade and then not delivering it). It also shows that I am still on PLUS HD HDVR.

05/14/2010	XXXXXXXXXXXX DIRECTV Whole-Home DVR Service - Charge	$0.90	$0.05
05/14/2010	XXXXXXXXXXXX PLUS HD DVR - Customer Retention	($49.00)	($2.94)


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

pfp said:


> MRV can be setup with Ethernet in a closed system too. There is no reason you could not connect all your receivers to a switch and NOT connect the switch to the Internet.


I think there were even a few folks that set up a second Gigabit router just for DIRECTV receivers. So even Ethernet could be isolated to just the receivers if one so chose.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

^ All good to know now that the Ethernet has been made illegal.

_"Psst...buddy...Check it out. I have an illegal Ethernet setup for watching movies in the kitchen. Wanna try? First one's free."_


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## mdriskell (Jan 4, 2009)

BudShark said:


> there have been no Connected Boxes becoming a self-aware entity and doing DoS on DirecTV... its all good.


Then how do you explain all of the Skynet programming I'm now getting. :hurah:


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## mdriskell (Jan 4, 2009)

I have a question....On a well setup Ethernet network how does MRV run compared to the DECA setup? Is there any performance boost on doing DECA (smoother trickplay, fast forward, rewind, etc).

I'm running a 100 meg network and the only MRV issues I have ever had have been with Trickplay


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

HofstraJet said:


> Uh.....only a government or an agency authorized by the government can create laws and make things illegal. Last time I checked, DirecTV was neither. :nono2:





Carl Spock said:


> ^ All good to know now that the Ethernet has been made illegal.
> 
> _"Psst...buddy...Check it out. I have an illegal Ethernet setup for watching movies in the kitchen. Wanna try? First one's free."_


While I am not doubting those were the words that the CSR used...

- I am possitive the CSR didn't mean the in the Civil, go to jail usage of the phrase.

- How many times have we used, or seen the phrase "Illegal" when meaning in violation of the rules... example: That was an illegal move, in reference to moving a game piece in chess.

- Ethernet setups, as has been covered a great number of times here in the forums, is NOT a supported method for MRV by DIRECTV.

The phrase that it taxes DIRECTV resources, isn't completely incorrect.
When someone sets it up via ethernet, it causes a support issue... it causes (has caused) taxing the CSR resources, to turn it on.

If at a later time, that customer is having a problem... and did setup via ethernet... calls, and then oh-yeah, ethernet isn't supported I am on my own. That call just cost DIRECTV money, that CSR time from helping someone else, and so on... And what if slips all the way through to a truck role, and that tech gets there.

DIRECTV wants all users to use DECA for their MRV.

Plain and simple, that is the case. There are numerous reasons as to why (and no it isn't about the $$$ aspect of the parts, because in more cases then not the $149 isn't covering the costs).

Ethernet has been allowed an "unsupported" based on feedback during the trials and other resources.

Those of you that want to setup via Ethernet... please, see Doug's posts on how to go about doing it...


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

mdriskell said:


> I have a question....On a well setup Ethernet network how does MRV run compared to the DECA setup? Is there any performance boost on doing DECA (smoother trickplay, fast forward, rewind, etc).
> 
> I'm running a 100 meg network and the only MRV issues I have ever had have been with Trickplay


I have a "well" setup ethernet setup here.
Gigabit core switch in the basement, all Cat-5e runs to all rooms. Matching gigabit switches where necessary.

All of my equipment was hooked up for a long time via hard-wire ethernet.

MRV worked fine, good in most cases.

When DECA came available, I migrated to DECA completely... and I am very happy with that choice.

Why? When MRVing, at times which could consist of more then one stream as I do have 6 DVRs in the house.. I could see a slow down in my personal usage of my home network (mostly when trying to do online gaming, through the same root switch that my DVR and XBOX shared).

After going to DECA, I just don't see those problems anymore.
All my DVR's see one another, MRV is nearly perfect when ever I need to use it. No impact to my home usage of my network. I woudl say that I saw an improvement in Trickplay, but then again, there were software updates that may have also improved it.

I can use DOD, I can use DIRECTV2PC.


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## mdriskell (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks Earl,
May go the DECA route later on down the line but I only have two networked DVRs and they work fine on my network...Only notice Trickplay issues on HD feeds SD are fine (to be expected)...Trickplay has gotten noticeably smoother over the BETA period.


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## pfp (Apr 28, 2009)

I don't really have an issue with the DECA equipment fee and while I have some issues with the install fee I really can't argue with $150 considering the number of DECA units I would need. It would easilly cost well more that that to buy them myself at Solid Signal. 

The aspect I am adamantly opposed to is that they insist on sending someone to do the install. I'm done taking days off work waiting for DirecTV installers who don't show up for appointments and who don't know what they are doing when they finally decide to show up. I will cancel my service before I do that again.

Since MRV works with Ethernet I'll use it that way instead of spending a fortune buying my own DECA equipment just to be unsupported anyways.


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## employee3 (Aug 15, 2006)

If you outlaw Ethernet, only outlaws will have Ethernet.


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## cnmurray8 (Jun 19, 2008)

Earl Bonovich said:


> I have a "well" setup ethernet setup here.
> Gigabit core switch in the basement, all Cat-5e runs to all rooms. Matching gigabit switches where necessary.
> 
> All of my equipment was hooked up for a long time via hard-wire ethernet.
> ...


Thanks Earl- if you use Playon will DECA make that stream better to the TV?


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## Richierich (Jan 10, 2008)

Earl, do you think we will ever get a Selectable Unified Playlist???

For awhile we had the ability to Select which DVRs would Populate the Playlist and Directv took that away from us.

Is it possible that Directv will ever get that functionality back again.

For instance, if I have 6 DVRs and 2 of those are for my children and I don't want to see all of their kid shows showing up in my UPL I could Deselect them and then I wouldn't have to page thru their recordings as well as mine.

Hopefully they will bring it back to make MRV even more User Friendly!!!


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

cnmurray8 said:


> Thanks Earl- if you use Playon will DECA make that stream better to the TV?


You would probably see no difference either way.


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## Earl Bonovich (Nov 15, 2005)

richierich said:


> Earl, do you think we will ever get a Selectable Unified Playlist???
> 
> For awhile we had the ability to Select which DVRs would Populate the Playlist and Directv took that away from us.
> 
> ...


Sadly... at this time, I can't comment on what the team may or may not add... sorry.


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## Billzebub (Jan 2, 2007)

cnmurray8 said:


> Thanks Earl- if you use Playon will DECA make that stream better to the TV?


I use playon with my DECA system and it's pretty much the same. I think most of the delay with playon is caused by my PC contacting the site, not my DVR receiving the signal from the PC.

For what it's worth, I'm really happy with DECA. If it wasn't for this site my install would not have been complete becaus ethe tech wasn't aware he could use a regular deac unit to connect to my router.


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## Mrmiami (Oct 3, 2006)

Earl Bonovich said:


> While I am not doubting those were the words that the CSR used...
> 
> - I am possitive the CSR didn't mean the in the Civil, go to jail usage of the phrase.
> 
> ...


Well Thank you very much Earl for the best response so far and bringing at least some levity back to the topic. Yes, I'm sure beyond a doubt that was what Chris (CSR) meant as in just a bad move (not in accordance with DTV's policy). He will probably get schooled the next time he tries the "Illegal" tag to make the sell to someone who want's to spend the effort to get him turned around. I guess in part I'm partly to blame but I just couldn't stop laughing everytime he said that and wanted to get to the bottom of that mindset (if it were the group as a whole or just a poor choice of words by an individual) it wasn't hard to ascertain it was the latter but I was already trucking on to the total cost for the whole setup. Indirectly though his comment afterwards made me think "had or is DirecTV changed their mind about allowing both methods for MRV"? That is why I started this post to see if anyone else was hearing this and had knowledge of this so called now "Illegal" method POV. Some of the comments in here had me in stitches and now you know why I couldn't help laughing at his tag because some of those thoughts were going through my mind at that time. BTW, I do have my MRV back now through the email approach and if I don't have at least 2 out of 3 requested(asked for but not guaranteed) 24-500 receivers for my install of SWM with DECA on Monday I'll probably cancel for now. I do plan to get it at some point but maybe not just yet. I just don't feel comfortable staying with an unsupported (not Illegal) method. The call was good though it told me the CSR's were as unprepared for this changeover as us Beta testers were and they still have some more classes to attend.


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## hookemfins (Jul 3, 2007)

I was speaking with two misinformed CSR agents in West Virginia (Kim and her supervisor Tracy) where they claim that the only beta testing was done in California. No one else can use their own equipment.

Part of me wants to just tell DTV to shove it, and go get Uverse ( I will never go to crapcom). I've seen Uverse in action and not impressed and I'd be paying more after the initial period.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Carl Spock said:


> ...
> 
> Recently I was explaining MRV to a buddy who was at my house. He looked puzzled. *"So DirecTV needs for you to hook up to cable for their system to work?" Yes, I replied slowly, sensing the trap I was falling into. You could hook up to a DSL phone line, I added, but most of us use a cable modem.* My buddy nodded. In case I was thick, he said, "So you have to do business with the competition to make DirecTV's MRV system work." Yes. I had to admit it does sound crazy stupid. ...


Unless I'm missing something here, I'm not sure why you told your buddy this, meaning that MRV works better with a cable modem than with DSL for internet service?


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

hookemfins said:


> I was speaking with two misinformed CSR agents in West Virginia (Kim and her supervisor Tracy) where they claim that the only beta testing was done in California. No one else can use their own equipment.
> 
> Part of me wants to just tell DTV to shove it, and go get Uverse ( I will never go to crapcom). I've seen Uverse in action and not impressed and I'd be paying more after the initial period.


Good grief ...

The litany of misinformed absurdities like this and many others dished out by DirecTV CSRs and even a lot of their supervisors about MRV ever since it officially went national is really depressing. :nono2:

I wonder why it is such a sin these days to simply keep your mouth closed sometimes and admit you don't know something instead of making matters worse by pretending that you do.


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## MadMac (Feb 18, 2008)

Doug Brott said:


> I think there were even a few folks that set up a second Gigabit router just for DIRECTV receivers. So even Ethernet could be isolated to just the receivers if one so chose.


That's just the road I'm considering. Does it need to be a router or would a switch work just as well?


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## V'ger (Oct 4, 2007)

Carl Spock said:


> Mrmiami, you've been fed way too much drama with not enough facts. I don't care how long Chris and you talked. I can watch a TV news channel for an hour and not get any real information.
> 
> Somewhere the concept of "unsupported" became "illegal". I love the concept that a home Ethernet setup uses more of DirecTV's resources. Exactly how is this the case? Does DirecTV store big vats of Internet that get drained down, and it flows more quickly through CAT-5 than it does RG-6? It almost sounds like that to me. Humm. I better go to the store and stock up on more Internet.
> 
> Yes, a home Ethernet setup can use more of DirecTV's resources if they have to roll trucks to fix yours or my wiring. That's why "supported" means SWiM and DECA. They can control the situation. But I don't think DirecTV is making Ethernet electrons outlaws. They are welcome in my house, at least.


It possibly could be interpreted as illegal if the ethernet connection could be monitored and content decoded to get digital copies. Over RG6, there won't (for now) be devices to monitor and record traffic available to the average person.


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## adamson (Nov 9, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> The phrase that it taxes DIRECTV resources, isn't completely incorrect.
> When someone sets it up via ethernet, it causes a support issue... it causes (has caused) taxing the CSR resources, to turn it on.
> 
> If at a later time, that customer is having a problem... and did setup via ethernet... calls, and then oh-yeah, ethernet isn't supported I am on my own. That call just cost DIRECTV money, that CSR time from helping someone else, and so on... And what if slips all the way through to a truck role, and that tech gets there.
> ...


We are not children and fully understand the "no support" aspect of ethernet MRV. Furthermore we pay a lot of money for the service we receive. Also your company loses money every day by those who want everything for free and by csr's who are not trained properly. For us ethernet enabled MRV customers and those who want it that way, have every right to call and get it. For it to be called illegal is beyond belief, yet we were to beta test it via our network. I refused to take a credit on my bill for my disgust in how this whole matter has been handled and you Earl write something like this. Your reply as quoted is hot off my printer and Im far from done here. I paid for what I have in my home and have no reason to hand over more money and waste Direct's resources by moving to DECA. If Directv forces DECA and I know for a fact its likely not, yes I would move to it. It just would be a case of waste and bad business.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

While I'm sure Earl would like to get in a debate with you .. I'm pretty sure that's not something that's going to happen .. 

If you want to offer up your dissatisfaction with what DIRECTV has chosen, then feel free to do so, but let's not direct the comments directly @ Earl.

Thanks guys.


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## adamson (Nov 9, 2007)

I want no debate, my comments are directed to customers like me and many. Im actually a bit stunned over comments made. And Im not wrong for anything I said.


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## dhhaines (Nov 18, 2005)

pfp said:


> <snip>
> The aspect I am adamantly opposed to is that they insist on sending someone to do the install. I'm done taking days off work waiting for DirecTV installers who don't show up for appointments and who don't know what they are doing when they finally decide to show up. I will cancel my service before I do that again.
> 
> Since MRV works with Ethernet I'll use it that way instead of spending a fortune buying my own DECA equipment just to be unsupported anyways.


 I feel the same way about any installer. I'd rather spend more money buying and installing myself then to wait around in a four hour window(that they come 2 hours after). My time is worth more than that.


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## Carl Spock (Sep 3, 2004)

HoTat2 said:
 

> Unless I'm missing something here, I'm not sure why you told your buddy this, meaning that MRV works better with a cable modem than with DSL for internet service?


You're reading too much into this. Most of us have cable modems rather than phone DSL connections for general Internet use because the are faster and cheaper (at least around here that's the case). This has nothing to do with MRV.


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## xmetalx (Jun 3, 2009)

This is comedy. Ethernet is illegal :lol:

Also, on an unrelated note. Carl Spock, I love your sig! (hangin with the bros at 40 Eridani A) Vulcans


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## bb37 (Dec 27, 2007)

Earl Bonovich said:


> - How many times have we used, or seen the phrase "Illegal" when meaning in violation of the rules... example: That was an illegal move, in reference to moving a game piece in chess.


Thirty years ago, when I was following the local minor league hockey team, players would occasionally get called for an illegal hand pass.

What the heck is a legal hand pass?

I understand and support DirecTV's decision to only support DECA. I applaud their decision to, for the time being, allow Ethernet home networks. Thanks to the folks who have been working behind the scenes to make this happen. Someday, I will probably go with a "legal" DECA system. In the meantime, I'll stick with my "illegal" home network. I will just keep my fingers crossed that I don't have any support issues that the fine folks in this forum can't help me solve.


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## DBSNewbie (Nov 3, 2007)

bb37 said:


> Thirty years ago, when I was following the local minor league hockey team, players would occasionally get called for an illegal hand pass.
> 
> *What the heck is a legal hand pass?*
> 
> I understand and support DirecTV's decision to only support DECA. I applaud their decision to, for the time being, allow Ethernet home networks. Thanks to the folks who have been working behind the scenes to make this happen. Someday, I will probably go with a "legal" DECA system. In the meantime, I'll stick with my "illegal" home network. I will just keep my fingers crossed that I don't have any support issues that the fine folks in this forum can't help me solve.


I know this is a bit off topic, but in hockey, a legal hand pass can be made directly to a teammate in a player's defensive zone. A hand pass made directly to a teammate in the neutral or a player's offensive zone is illegal.


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## rjsimmons (Aug 8, 2006)

I must be blessed. I called yesterday just before leaving for a James Taylor/Carol King concert and, while the CSR had to put me on hold a couple of time, had MRV activated on my account with no issues. 

I was warned that D* could not provide support for my ethernet network (but hey, try getting support from your router manufacturer..) after which the CSR activated the service. The whole process took perhaps 15 minutes.

I still do not like the fact that they are adding a $3 charge for the service, but my wife has become addicted and that ends the discussion.

Best of luck to everyone else trying to do this.


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## dwcolvin (Oct 4, 2007)

rjsimmons said:


> I was warned that D* could not provide support for my ethernet network (but hey, try getting support from your router manufacturer..) after which the CSR activated the service. The whole process took perhaps 15 minutes.


Which is why I switched to DD-WRT firmware. Linksys made great (if somewhat tacky-looking) hardware, but were horrible at supporting the firmware. _Their_ N-router wouldn't work with _their_ N-adapter.


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## xmetalx (Jun 3, 2009)

dwcolvin said:


> Which is why I switched to DD-WRT firmware. Linksys made great (if somewhat tacky-looking) hardware, but were horrible at supporting the firmware. _Their_ N-router wouldn't work with _their_ N-adapter.


Yeah, a little off topic, but DD-WRT rocks on my linksys WRT54g. basically turns a $50 router into a $300 professional Cisco router, with the ability to set custom rules, watch and monitor live traffic on the network, and too many other features to name!


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## viperlmw (Oct 20, 2007)

upmichigan said:


> We are not children and fully understand the "no support" aspect of ethernet MRV. Furthermore we pay a lot of money for the service we receive. Also your company loses money every day by those who want everything for free and by csr's who are not trained properly. For us ethernet enabled MRV customers and those who want it that way, have every right to call and get it. For it to be called illegal is beyond belief, yet we were to beta test it via our network. I refused to take a credit on my bill for my disgust in how this whole matter has been handled and you Earl write something like this. Your reply as quoted is hot off my printer and Im far from done here. I paid for what I have in my home and have no reason to hand over more money and waste Direct's resources by moving to DECA. If Directv forces DECA and I know for a fact its likely not, yes I would move to it. It just would be a case of waste and bad business.


"We" may not be children, but many are, such as the "those who want everything for free" crowd you reference. However, I'm sure "everything for free" is a little dramatic, and DTV makes business decisions regarding this that they believe makes them MORE money overall, due to cust retention, good will, additional sales (for example, about 8 months ago, I talked my way into an H-23, and with all the credits, I ended up at + $30, yet now I am paying for MRV), etc.

As for the 'right' to have MRVoE, I don't understand this attitude. Every place of business I walk into has a sign "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". And if DTV decides that MRVoE is more hassle than it's worth (there are many home networks out there that would provide a less than ideal MRV experience) as far as support, then they may remove it as a product, and would have every 'right' to do so (I sure hope not, as MRVoE is what I'm doing, and am completely satisfied). As for the 'illegal' remark, I doubt that's truly what was meant. I remember my mother-in-law couldn't get over Windows98 always telling her that her computer has performed an 'illegal operation'. She would always ask (sarcastically) if the computer police were coming.

And dude, Earl is just trying to help. I, for one appreciate that. Don't be hammering him.


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

kokishin said:


> When I get a CSR who is clueless (more times than not), I ask to speak to their supervisor. If the supervisor is clueless, then I say good bye and call back again. I would NEVER spend one hour on the phone with a clueless CSR. I estimate you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting a knowledgable CSR.


Yeah it took me quite a number of reps to get through before I got one to handle it.

In one case the rep was so far off the track I just hung up.

What I don't understand is who set up the ethernet network for the OP with six devices in the original post? That is the person who should have been calling DirecTV about this issue. No offense OP, but given what you have said here, I find it hard to believe you were the one who set up your own home network supporting all of these devices.


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## marksman (Dec 23, 2006)

pfp said:


> MRV can be setup with Ethernet in a closed system too. There is no reason you could not connect all your receivers to a switch and NOT connect the switch to the Internet.


I have all my receivers on a wireless N network that is its own network. I could easily detach it from my core router and it would be disconnected from the internet.

After reading these threads though, I am more and more sympathetic to what D* did here. I always thought it would be a little insane to try and support home networking via traditional means.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

has anyone had their MRV Turned on as a result of the email being sent?

John


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## jpitlick (Apr 19, 2007)

sorahl said:


> has anyone had their MRV Turned on as a result of the email being sent?
> 
> John


Yes, but I had to change my program package to a current one. The difference was $1.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

i figured i would have to so i also changed my package (sigh my bill went up $8).. but i'm stilll waiting for MRV to be activated...


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## gpsjunkie (Sep 13, 2009)

One call to Direct and about 10 minutes of my time and my ethernet MRV was turned on. Had to change my package, up by $1.


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## nn8l (Sep 7, 2007)

sorahl said:


> has anyone had their MRV Turned on as a result of the email being sent?
> 
> John


Yes, but I also had to change my package. I sent the original email about 8:30am, heard from them in the early pm, changed my package a few hours later, and 3 hours or so after that I had MRV going.


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## murry27409 (Oct 16, 2007)

sorahl said:


> has anyone had their MRV Turned on as a result of the email being sent?
> 
> John


I changed my package a couple of days b4 i sent the MRV email. When I did, I rec'd a response in ~10 hrs stating that MRV had been enabled.


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

would it be untoward to send a second email request? I sent mine sometime on friday..

John


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## xmetalx (Jun 3, 2009)

sorahl said:


> would it be untoward to send a second email request? I sent mine sometime on friday..


Not at all. if they don't get back to you in 24hrs or less, (or even 12 hours, I'm impatient..) I'd email again.

You could always call in and ask if they've been fully trained on adding MRV service... or offer to 'assist' with instructions on adding it


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## sorahl (Oct 24, 2002)

I think... i didn't hit the second submit button last week... 

it happens


within 1 hr of the second email being sent I got a responce and it was enabled 
the wife unit will be pleased..

strange, no mention of illegality..


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## dervari (Dec 1, 2005)

I got lucky. I went to Tech Support after the Tier I call taker absolutely refused. He got it enabled for me AND left me on my legacy package!


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