# Hard Drive Going?



## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

I think my hard drive is dying. Lately, I've noticed momentary pixeling on recorded shows that don't show up on the backup DVR. I've also noticed it kind of stopping for a second during playback, kind of like a hiccup. When I skip back and watch again, it's not there, everything plays fine. What do you guys think?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

Very well could be. 

You can run the Built In Self Tests if you want to verify. While they can take some time (they are thorough) they are not going to do any damage, only find if there is any.

Reboot the DVR and press select at the "Running Self Check" screen. It will let you run some advanced disk tests to verify it's status.

Good luck, I've had one go recently too.

Another test is to use an external drive for awhile to see if the problems go away.

Lastly, check the temp on the receiver on the Info screen of the Setup menu. Too high (above 135 or so) could part of the problem.

Cheers
Tom


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Not the temps (Unfortunately), they're always around 125 or lower. I'll have to run the tests. I've glanced through them before, and noticed it saying something about correcting or fixing problems. Does it really? Or should I be looking for hard drive deals?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

the funky Maine electricity CMP gives us 

just an opinion, but if tests show it starting to have issues its probably not too much longer for this world.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Got a UPS to combat CMP


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

kturcotte said:


> Got a UPS to combat CMP


got many here :lol:


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

kturcotte said:


> Not the temps (Unfortunately), they're always around 125 or lower. I'll have to run the tests. I've glanced through them before, and noticed it saying something about correcting or fixing problems. Does it really? Or should I be looking for hard drive deals?


yes, it can fix some problems. Of course when it gets too bad, it too has to give up and say "replace me..."

Cheers,
Tom


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Tom Robertson said:


> yes, it can fix some problems. Of course when it gets too bad, it too has to give up and say "replace me..."
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom


I was afraid of that. Looks like newegg's about to get some business that I can't afford lol


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kturcotte said:


> I was afraid of that. Looks like newegg's about to get some business that I can't afford lol


Did these issues start right after you got the new NR? I lost an eSATA that had been working perfectly for over a year because of the new NR. Showed the same symptoms you're seeing.

Rich


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## Ernest_T (May 9, 2008)

Since the 0x34c software release (I got mine this past Tuesday morning), I've been noticing some of the same skipping and freezing that you've noticed. Also, my HR21 seems to be restarting on its own. I had some trouble sleeping last night, so I came out and got some milk to drink, and went to my living room to sit during that time. My HR21 had the big blue ring glowing in the dark, even though I turned it off before heading to bed. I powered it back off. When I got up this morning, I came out to find the blue ring glowing again.

I found a post on the DirecTV tech forums from litzdog911 indicating that the issues we're seeing after this release probably do indicate the hard drive may be going bad. Apparently this release included software to flush out marginally performing drives. I haven't found the time to perform the system tests recommended in an earlier post, but I plan to do that when I get a chance.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Running the SMART Long test now. This is going to take forever with a 750 GB drive lol What is the difference between this and the surface test?


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## eileen22 (Mar 24, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> Running the SMART Long test now. This is going to take forever with a 750 GB drive lol What is the difference between this and the surface test?


It's not showing any errors yet? Mine (the regular internal drive) took 45 minutes to get to 4%, then showed an error of "77". I decided to quit the SMART long test, since I was pretty sure my drive was failing, and since I had an eSATA ready to go. I installed the external drive earlier this week, and have had zero problems since. Before this, I was having increasingly more and more stuttering, freezing and audio dropouts on everything except for live TV.

Good luck.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

It's up to 65%, no errors yet.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

It passed that. Running a surface test right now, but I'll have to stop it part way through (Recording at 3).


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## RobertE (Jun 10, 2006)

I'm sure someone will come along and counter what I'm about to say as wrong, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway.

I would think if it's a surface issue on the drive, the glitch should be in the same spot/frame each and every time. Since it's not, that leads me to believe that the recordings are ok and that the problem is somewhere in the playback chain.

Could still be the drive.
Could be the drive "controller"
Could be a decoder starting to go
Could be any number of things.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

RobertE said:


> I'm sure someone will come along and counter what I'm about to say as wrong, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> ...


That's why I asked him if it happened after he got the new NR. If "more robust" diagnostics means that they wreck an HDD, I think that's unconscionable.

Rich


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

rich584 said:


> That's why I asked him if it happened after he got the new NR. If "more robust" diagnostics means that they wreck an HDD, I think that's unconscionable.
> 
> Rich


They don't "wreck" the HDD. They better identify if a hard drive is already wrecked or about to fail. Why would anyone intentionally wreck a hard drive?

Cheers,
Tom


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Don't remember if it started before or after 0x34c


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Tom Robertson said:


> They don't "wreck" the HDD. They better identify if a hard drive is already wrecked or about to fail. Why would anyone intentionally wreck a hard drive?


Wrecked my 2TB eSATA. "Why" is my question. Why not a notification that the drive will fail or might fail?


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## David MacLeod (Jan 29, 2008)

was it a 2TB -700 though ?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Did these issues start right after you got the new NR? I lost an eSATA that had been working perfectly for over a year because of the new NR. Showed the same symptoms you're seeing.
> 
> Rich





rich584 said:


> That's why I asked him if it happened after he got the new NR. If "more robust" diagnostics means that they wreck an HDD, I think that's unconscionable.
> 
> Rich





rich584 said:


> Wrecked my 2TB eSATA. "Why" is my question. Why not a notification that the drive will fail or might fail?


Don't make me ask Fred to have sit down talk with you. [he might want to while you're sleeping].:lol:
You know how drives fail. A new national release that has a better diagnostic test is what you seemed to have found. It only runs the test on startup, so how could it give you a message without restarting?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

David MacLeod said:


> was it a 2TB -700 though ?


Indeed.

HRs fine, running with a Seagate 1.5TB in an Antec.

One day the 2TB was fine then an NR and then ruined. Lasted a lot longer than the other one I bought at the same time, that one lasted about 3 months. Cavalrys. Surprised it lasted this long.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Don't make me ask Fred to have sit down talk with you. [he might want to while you're sleeping].:lol:
> You know how drives fail. A new national release that has a better diagnostic test is what you seemed to have found. It only runs the test on startup, so how could it give you a message without restarting?


It could have. The issues only occurred when watching recorded programs, which is pretty much all I watch. A message could have been shown. Something like "Bam! Gotcha!" :lol:

If you know, exactly what is the purpose of the diagnostic tests? The eSATA I lost lasted a whole lot longer than I expected it to, and if it wasn't for the NR, it would still be running.

Maybe it wasn't the diagnostic tests. We'll never know for sure, I guess. Maybe it was just it's time. Over a year for a Cavalry eSATA. Not too bad. But, there's no doubt, in my mind, that the NR caused it and others to fail or develop issues that made viewing programs impossible.

I do seem to see an upturn in posts about bad HDDs.

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> It could have. The issues only occurred when watching recorded programs, which is pretty much all I watch. A message could have been shown. Something like "Bam! Gotcha!" :lol:
> 
> If you know, exactly what is the purpose of the diagnostic tests? The eSATA I lost lasted a whole lot longer than I expected it to, and if it wasn't for the NR, it would still be running.
> 
> ...


Having run the test on my internal drive, there isn't anything "destructive" in the tests.
If it finds a bad sector [etc.] it may mark it as such and not use it anymore. Any recording already using these would have problems, "but" any future recordings wouldn't use it bad area.
I don't see this much different than doing a disk check on your PC, though I'm not sure it tries to remap the data.

So: "Sure" the new NR may be the cause of more posts about bad drives, as it is now inspecting them better, so errors that may have been there for some time, are now being found.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> Having run the test on my internal drive, there isn't anything "destructive" in the tests.
> If it finds a bad sector [etc.] it may mark it as such and not use it anymore. Any recording already using these would have problems, "but" any future recordings wouldn't use it bad area.
> I don't see this much different than doing a disk check on your PC, though I'm not sure it tries to remap the data.
> 
> So: "Sure" the new NR may be the cause of more posts about bad drives, as it is now inspecting them better, so errors that may have been there for some time, are now being found.


So would it actually be a good idea to run the tests on new hard drives, so it marks off any bad sectors if it finds any?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> So would it actually be a good idea to run the tests on new hard drives, so it marks off any bad sectors if it finds any?


"You'd think" a new drive wouldn't have any, but "it couldn't hurt".


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "You'd think" a new drive wouldn't have any, but "it couldn't hurt".


You'd think lol


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## ChrisMinCT (Dec 7, 2006)

I've been noticing the same problems since the last national release came in last week. I was thinking that the hard drive might be getting ready to fail. Same symptoms you describe. The hard drive seems to be whirling more than it used to. I ran all the diags and everything came up clean. I'm thinking maybe its just the new release as I didn't notice this prior. First noticed the hard drive whirling a lot the other night when I was in my den reading with everything off and the HR20 sounded like my PC doing a defrag. Somewhat annoying, actually. Powered her down overnight, but no change.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Having run the test on my internal drive, there isn't anything "destructive" in the tests.
> If it finds a bad sector [etc.] it may mark it as such and not use it anymore. Any recording already using these would have problems, "but" any future recordings wouldn't use it bad area.
> I don't see this much different than doing a disk check on your PC, though I'm not sure it tries to remap the data.
> 
> So: "Sure" the new NR may be the cause of more posts about bad drives, as it is now inspecting them better, so errors that may have been there for some time, are now being found.


OK, I don't want to argue with you.

Rich


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## Ernest_T (May 9, 2008)

If you've run all of the diagnostic tests, and the drive passed all of them, you may want to consider a full reset of the receiver. After a couple of calls in to tech support, that was the suggestion they gave to me. Go through the same procedure you would for a standard receiver reset, except for when you get to the point to choose what to reset, choose "Reset Everything." That will format the hard drive, and reload the software fresh. Realize that you'll have to start fresh though - no recordings, series links, favorites lists, etc., so you'll have to set all of that up again.

I did the full reset, and the issues I had been having seem to have cleared up. I've shut my receiver off for the night - if it's still off in the morning, I'll consider the issues to have been fixed.

Update - looks like I may have spoken a little too soon. I found my receiver on this morning when I got up, so it still seems to be restarting on its own. I may have to contact DirecTV again on this.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Are there any tests I could do on the computer that would help determine if it's actually failing?


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

Interesting. I'm having similar issues. I was thinking the hard drive was going because it's 3 years old now. It's definitely making the clickly click noise a lot now. And I'm getting some pixelation/pauses now too.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

Clicking noises is a definite sign. Mine's not making any clicking noises though, that's why I'm not sure


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> Are there any tests I could do on the computer that would help determine if it's actually failing?


I'm sure the maker's website has some utilities you could run, but I'd also guess the drive would get wiped along the way too.


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I'm sure the maker's website has some utilities you could run, but I'd also guess the drive would get wiped along the way too.


I'm also not sure about booting up Windows with it connected. Isn't there something about NOT doing that (Windows tags it or something like that)?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> I'm also not sure about booting up Windows with it connected. Isn't there something about NOT doing that (Windows tags it or something like that)?


There are [at least] two issues:


Windows won't recognize the file system on the drive [Linux]
DVR hard drives don't always spin-up when booting on a computer.
The maker's utilizes don't care about the file system, as you normally boot off a CD or floppy to run them.
As for the spin-up, I'm not sure how the utilities handle this.
The first poster about connecting these drives said it would only boot "a few" [can't remember his numbers but 2-4] times out of ten boots, so this could also be a PITA.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

kturcotte said:


> Clicking noises is a definite sign. Mine's not making any clicking noises though, that's why I'm not sure


So won't Directv replace it if the hard drive dies?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

mtnagel said:


> So won't Directv replace it if the hard drive dies?


"Well sure", but they'll first have you format the drive to see how it works afterward.


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## mtnagel (Sep 18, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> "Well sure", but they'll first have you format the drive to see how it works afterward.


Wonderful


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## flippedout (Sep 2, 2007)

Ever since the latest NR I've definitely noticed the hard drive activity drastically increase. It is really annoying...the drive spins and spins (like a PC during defrag) while watching live or recorded shows. We've had the DVR for about 3 years now so it could very well be going. Most recorded shows show some pixelation and pausing.

If the HDD craps out my son is probably going to freak (he's 4). 60% of the drive has kids shows on it. Better start re-recording those shows on the other DVR.


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## CalmWind (Oct 2, 2007)

kturcotte said:


> I think my hard drive is dying. Lately, I've noticed momentary pixeling on recorded shows that don't show up on the backup DVR. I've also noticed it kind of stopping for a second during playback, kind of like a hiccup. When I skip back and watch again, it's not there, everything plays fine. What do you guys think?


Mine (HR20-700) is doing the same thing. I believe it is related to the DoublePlay addition. And I have tried unplugging it.


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## StangGT909 (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm having the same problem and it's horrible!!! 

I notice this post hasn't been updated in 2 weeks, but has anyone found any new information regarding the hard drive skipping / acting like it's dying?

My 2 cents.... seems odd that there are so many people with the problems in the same month. Hopefully it's software related because I don't want a 2-year contract extension because my box died.


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## drkashner (Nov 16, 2008)

StangGT909 said:


> I'm having the same problem and it's horrible!!!
> 
> I notice this post hasn't been updated in 2 weeks, but has anyone found any new information regarding the hard drive skipping / acting like it's dying?
> 
> My 2 cents.... seems odd that there are so many people with the problems in the same month. Hopefully it's software related because I don't want a 2-year contract extension because my box died.


Came here to find out if my HR20 disk drive was dying also. I'm have the same problem since the last software upgrade. Recorded shows have been momentarily freezing, pixilating and the sound drops. Watched NOVA about Charles Darwin, 2 hours and it did it 5 or 6 times.


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## mrnygiants (Sep 12, 2006)

add me to the list also, my hr20-700 is making alot of noises, half of my shows that were saved were deleted, not once, but twice. Anyone have any suggestions?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

mrnygiants said:


> add me to the list also, my hr20-700 is making alot of noises, half of my shows that were saved were deleted, not once, but twice. Anyone have any suggestions?


Your box is well in excess of 2 years old. Drives fail with time; the older they are, the higher the failure rate. My suggestion is call Directv and request a replacement and watch what you can ASAP while you wait.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

drkashner said:


> Came here to find out if my HR20 disk drive was dying also. I'm have the same problem since the last software upgrade. Recorded shows have been momentarily freezing, pixilating and the sound drops. Watched NOVA about Charles Darwin, 2 hours and it did it 5 or 6 times.


Have patience. It'll get fixed. It's not your HDD.

Rich


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Have patience. It'll get fixed. It's not your HDD.
> 
> Rich


However, I'm sure the content on the drive is important to him...


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

drkashner said:


> Came here to find out if my HR20 disk drive was dying also. I'm have the same problem since the last software upgrade. Recorded shows have been momentarily freezing, pixilating and the sound drops. Watched NOVA about Charles Darwin, 2 hours and it did it 5 or 6 times.


Run the Built in Self-test (BIST) to try and repair your hard drive. To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:


reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
when they see "Running receiver self-check" press select
You will see "Entering Diagnostics Mode..."
select Advanced Tests Menu -> Hard Drive utilities -> Surface Test
*Warning*: This process could take several hours to complete. You may want to run it overnight.

The good news is that every attempt is made to save programming. This is less destructive than a reformat all and could provide you with a more stable system if you are having problems that appear to be related to the hard drive.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Greg Alsobrook said:


> However, I'm sure the content on the drive is important to him...


As it is to all of us. Why else would we have the HRs?

Rich


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

rich584 said:


> As it is to all of us. Why else would we have the HRs?
> 
> Rich


Sorry. I must have mis-understood. Your "it's not your HDD" comment implied to me that it wouldn't matter if it died.


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## pablo (Oct 11, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Run the Built in Self-test (BIST) to try and repair your hard drive. To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:
> 
> 
> reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
> ...


My DVR has started doing the same thing, pausing, pixelating, skipping. Not so much during recorded shows, but more often when watching paused live shows. Very annoying. I'll try this test, maybe it'll sort itself out. I have tons of stuff I'd need to watch if I were to call DirecTV for a replacement.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

pablo said:


> My DVR has started doing the same thing, pausing, pixelating, skipping. Not so much during recorded shows, but more often when watching paused live shows. Very annoying. I'll try this test, maybe it'll sort itself out. I have tons of stuff I'd need to watch if I were to call DirecTV for a replacement.


Just FYI, the internal drive on my HR21-700 passed those advanced tests and still failed later in the day. :nono:


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Sorry. I must have mis-understood. Your "it's not your HDD" comment implied to me that it wouldn't matter if it died.


Couldn't figure out what you meant, Greg, in your original post. What I meant to do was give the poster some hope that his problem was not with the HR itself, but in the software.

I've had the same problems with my six 20-700s which are split 4 to 2 on my two dishes. That precludes problems with the dishes, cables, multi-switches, etc. and narrows it down to the HRs, which were working perfectly just before the NR and developed the same issues immediately after the NR downloaded. Lots of folks are worried about their HDDs failing and they should be made aware where the problem lies and it's probably not in their hard drives. They should also be made aware that the problem is being fixed, I hope.

Rich


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Couldn't figure out what you meant, Greg, in your original post. What I meant to do was give the poster some hope that his problem was not with the HR itself, but in the software.
> 
> I've had the same problems with my six 20-700s which are split 4 to 2 on my two dishes. That precludes problems with the dishes, cables, multi-switches, etc. and narrows it down to the HRs, which were working perfectly just before the NR and developed the same issues immediately after the NR downloaded. Lots of folks are worried about their HDDs failing and they should be made aware where the problem lies and it's probably not in their hard drives. They should also be made aware that the problem is being fixed, I hope.
> 
> Rich


It's not software. The current NR seems to use the drives in a somewhat different way than previous versions, which causes previously-marginal drives to start showing problems.

Your drives are failing, you just don't know it yet.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> It's not software. The current NR seems to use the drives in a somewhat different way than previous versions, which causes previously-marginal drives to start showing problems.
> 
> Your drives are failing, you just don't know it yet.


Six of them? At once? Three with brand new drives? C'mon. The three 20-700s that I don't own have the same problems on the internal drives as the eSATAs that are attached to them. That was one of the first things I checked. One of my owned 20-700s has an Antec with a brand new WD Green Caviar drive and still has the internal drive and both of them do the same thing. That's 10 HDDs that are in the process of failing?


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Six of them? At once? Three with brand new drives? C'mon. The three 20-700s that I don't own have the same problems on the internal drives as the eSATAs that are attached to them. That was one of the first things I checked. One of my owned 20-700s has an Antec with a brand new WD Green Caviar drive and still has the internal drive and both of them do the same thing. That's 10 HDDs that are in the process of failing?


Believe what you want. I've had ZERO problems like you describe in 3 years with the HR2x aside from one receiver last week, right before the drive failed.


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## jschuman (Sep 27, 2006)

Another "me too" here. My HR20-700 (around 3 years old) HDD has been more noisy, whirring, etc. and pausing/stuttering/pixelating recorded shows.

I'm going to try the surface test tonight to see if that helps. I think it's obvious that this has _something_ to do with the latest software release.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

LameLefty said:


> Believe what you want. I've had ZERO problems like you describe in 3 years with the HR2x aside from one receiver last week, right before the drive failed.


How strange to see that you've had ZERO problems EXCEPT for losing an HDD last week. Logic is obviously not your strong suit.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

jschuman said:


> Another "me too" here. My HR20-700 (around 3 years old) HDD has been more noisy, whirring, etc. and pausing/stuttering/pixelating recorded shows.
> 
> I'm going to try the surface test tonight to see if that helps. *I think it's obvious that this has something to do with the latest software release.*


It's not obvious at all. You're all assuming causation when you are seeing coincidence. Do the math: that drive has been spinning for going on 26,000 hours. There are a bazillion drives out there in Directv service (I've got 5 alone; Directv has 17-odd million subs, more than half of whom have at least one DVR). ALL of them are getting older second by second.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

rich584 said:


> How strange to see that you've had ZERO problems EXCEPT for losing an HDD last week. Logic is obviously not your strong suite.


Hey, again, believe what you want. Insults are never a good thing to sling but if you don't have facts, use what you got I guess huh? 

I have rainfade sometimes. I have power failures that last about 2 minutes maybe once every 18 months or so (underground utilities and really stable local power help). I don't miss recordings or get blanks on any of my DVRs. Have I had a (very rare) occasional lockup? Sure - I think the last one was in mid/late 2007 or so, and no that's not a joke.

But do I see pixelation? Not randomly - I see it on specific stations (mostly but not always locals), and they are accompanied by the MPEG4 audio brrriiip issues discussed at length on this very board. But those are not software-related. The come from encoding issues with the source material. Interestingly, I was in Destin last week on vacation and saw versions of the same MPEG problems on the local digital cable, straight into the CableCard on the TV, with no separate receiver in the signal chain, so I KNOW in that case it's not Directv's software to blame.

I did have a Tivo die on me once about 7 years ago. Never had an HR die until last week. I replaced the drive with an eSATA unit last night and it's been working perfectly for 23 hours now. No random pixelation, freezes or pauses.

But again, believe what you want. I'll rebut the nonsense when I see it.


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## jschuman (Sep 27, 2006)

LameLefty said:


> It's not obvious at all. You're all assuming causation when you are seeing coincidence. Do the math: that drive has been spinning for going on 26,000 hours. There are a bazillion drives out there in Directv service (I've got 5 alone; Directv has 17-odd million subs, more than half of whom have at least one DVR). ALL of them are getting older second by second.


Huh?

You said it yourself:


> The current NR seems to use the drives in a somewhat different way than previous versions, which causes previously-marginal drives to start showing problems.


All I said was that it is obvious that the problems are _related_ to the latest NR. *You* used the word 'causes' and then accused me of assuming 'causation'. Are there different definitions of causation then something causing something else??

I think it's obvious that the latest NR is somehow either a) causing the HDD thrashing and stuttering/pixelization in perfectly good HDDs or b) accessing the HDD in such a way as to cause thrashing and stuttering/pixelization in HDDs that are about to die or are 'in trouble'. It sounds like you agree with (b).

In either case, the latest NR is related to it. That's all I'm saying.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jschuman said:


> Huh?
> 
> You said it yourself:
> 
> ...


And you said it well. Did you read my post to him? How could ten HDDs exhibit the same issues and not have a common denominator? Of course it's the NR. I think. :lol: I hope. :lol:

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> How could ten HDDs exhibit the same issues and not have a common denominator? Of course it's the NR. I think. :lol: I hope. :lol:
> 
> Rich


And what was Fred up to during this time?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> And what was Fred up to during this time?


It's snowing 80 miles from here. That's all he cares about at the moment. We're getting pounded by a Northeaster and there's another one behind it that's gonna hit by Sunday. My river's getting higher. Starting to worry.

Rich


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

rich584 said:


> And you said it well. Did you read my post to him? How could ten HDDs exhibit the same issues and not have a common denominator? Of course it's the NR. I think. :lol: I hope. :lol:
> 
> Rich


Or you're missing something fairly obvious in your never-ending rush to swap drives, swap receivers, and blame everything else.


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## LameLefty (Sep 29, 2006)

jschuman said:


> I think it's obvious that the latest NR is somehow either a) causing the HDD thrashing and stuttering/pixelization in perfectly good HDDs* or b) accessing the HDD in such a way as to cause thrashing and stuttering/pixelization in HDDs that are about to die or are 'in trouble'. It sounds like you agree with (b).*
> 
> In either case, the latest NR is related to it. That's all I'm saying.


I agree with your statement that it's causing problems with marginal drives.

I also know that hard drives MTBFs in consumer equipment under actual usage patterns are overstated (much like MPG estimates for cars) and drives more than a couple years old are living on borrowed time.

I think it's quite likely that even if the software hadn't changed a thing a good number of drives would be dying anyway just due to age and statistics, and that most of them will fail in 6 - 12 months anyway if they're over 2 years old. And yes, I do know there will be exceptions ('cuz see, even if I don't understand Rich's definition of "logic" I actually have a degree in engineering and grok statistics very well, thanks).


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

I would like to add myself to this growing list, as I've been having this problem for about a month now...

I have a HR21-100 and the video/audio pauses in the beginning we're minor, less than a second and would occur throughout the playback. However, the pauses occur at the same places.

Over the past two weeks, the pauses have become increasingly worse, lasting for several seconds and trying to pause or fast forward just makes the issue worse. Live playback pauses are the worst, making the recording experience a disaster. Can't tell you how many shows I've been unable to watch and thusly have lost because I'm forced to delete them...

So if summarize what I'm reading in this thread and others is this, the new NR has issued some new software that either manages and/or diagnoses the internal HD differently than in the past and it is suspected that people having issues with their recordings are actually marginal HD that are now being exposed. 

While I could agree with that, why did I start having video/audio pauses with recordings after the last NR and all recordings on the HD prior to the last NR playback with zero issues. To me that doesn't add up... Also, this HD is about 12-14 months old...

Let's have a rational discussion and see if we can come up with a resolution. As the list of subscribers with this same issue appears to be growing daily...

Thanks,

JerseyReef - Mike


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## Ken S (Feb 13, 2007)

kturcotte said:


> Are there any tests I could do on the computer that would help determine if it's actually failing?


What brand of HD is it?

The first place to start might be running SpeedFan. This utility is mostly meant for keeping tabs on computer temperatures and fan speeds, but it will give you a report on the SMART data from the HD. I'm sure there are other utilities that do the same, but SpeedFan is free and works well.

If you see problems on the report or you still suspect something is wrong there are some tools you can use. My personal favorite is Spinrite. It's not fast, but this program can keep a good HD running very well and recover data from sick, dying drives that nothing else short of a data recovery service can touch. Fair warning...it does a great job, but on big drives it can take a looooooong time to run.

Western Digital and Seagate also provide disk utilities. Both work pretty well at finding and fixing many errors.

All of those programs are best run from an MS-DOS boot and are non-destructive, but they do recommend a backup be done.

All of the standard warnings about removing HDDs from your DirecTV owned equipment apply. Do it at your own risk.


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## uteotw (Sep 30, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Run the Built in Self-test (BIST) to try and repair your hard drive. To run the hard drive checks, please follow these steps:
> 
> 
> reboot STB via Menu -> Parental, Fav's & Setup -> System Setup -> Reset -> Restart Receiver
> ...


Has this worked for anyone in terms of getting the LOUD sound to go away? I'll try it because it's driving me crazy; if it has worked for anyone I'd like to hear. Last night the whirring and grinding was so loud I kept having to turn the volume up. Ridiculous...


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## tejohnson (Nov 6, 2006)

Same problem here.

Model Number: HR20-700
Software Vers: 0x034C
Hardware Rev: 2.4

Doing a long SMART diag now, will follow-up with a surface test afterwards.

Same pixelation reported as the is drive seeking during playback. It reminds me of a terribly fragmented drive. What file system is actually used?

(please don't just say Linux, I'd like to know which file system if you know)

The other thing to report that I have not seen from any of the other posts:

All of the recordings were intentionally deleted by me (we only had a few shows left to watch, and I'm not crying over them), and the drive space/recording time indicator stated that there was only about 30% available. Has anyone else noticed this?


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## paulman182 (Aug 4, 2006)

The hard drive in my HR20-700 has quieted since I did the surface scan and the pixilization on playback is now gone.

Good advice, that surface scan.


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## tejohnson (Nov 6, 2006)

My surface scan completed over night, and the receiver apparently booted to normal operation, so I was unable to observe the reported results (if any). The receiver is claiming recording time of 100% available now.


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## dblake15 (Sep 29, 2006)

My HR20's (I have 2 of them) in the last month started whirring and making bad HD noises so bad that it is pretty loud. 

I know the HD is going, and it DID start happening after this last software update. It may be time to try to get an upgrade. Not sure that will help though.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

dblake15 said:


> My HR20's (I have 2 of them) in the last month started whirring and making bad HD noises so bad that it is pretty loud.
> 
> I know the HD is going, and it DID start happening after this last software update. It may be time to try to get an upgrade. Not sure that will help though.


And yet, I've been assured that the NR could have no adverse affect on the HDDs. By a Moderator. After my 2TB eSATA was ruined by the NR. Just a coincidence.

Rich


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

Well after getting an error code of 77 on the long SMART test and the with the HD being unable to complete a surface scan or even reformat the drive. Customer Care is replacing the receiver (H21/100) at no charge (yes the $20 fee is waived).

I know there has been a lot of chatter on this board about the new release and what impact it had on the STB and the recordings, the new software clearly found that my HD was starting to fail (maybe it caused it to fail, dunno).

Thanks,

JerseyReef - Mike


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## dacoop2 (Feb 6, 2007)

I'm glad I clicked on this thread. I've noticed my hard drive is constantly whirring lately, and I've had some playback stutter. It's an HR20-700. 

It does seem to coincide with the latest software push. I'll run the HD check overnight and see if it tells me anything. Thanks all!!


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

jerseyreef said:


> Well after getting an error code of 77 on the long SMART test and the with the HD being unable to complete a surface scan or even reformat the drive. Customer Care is replacing the receiver (H21/100) at no charge (yes the $20 fee is waived).
> 
> I know there has been a lot of chatter on this board about the new release and what impact it had on the STB and the recordings, the new software clearly found that my HD was starting to fail (maybe it caused it to fail, dunno).
> 
> ...


Let me guess, your 21-100 was running fine until the NR? That's when your problems began? If that's what happened, don't you find it rather disturbing that your HDD got damaged by that NR?

Rich


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Let me guess, your 21-100 was running fine until the NR? That's when your problems began? If that's what happened, don't you find it rather disturbing that your HDD got damaged by that NR?
> 
> Rich


I "ran into this" sometime back. My HR20 started having a bit more head chatter and I did find more "breakups" than I was used to seeing before.
I ran the advanced disk tests and it did help.
I started a thread "back then" about a 2 year old DVR and tuning it up:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=158348&highlight=year+DVR


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

rich584 said:


> Let me guess, your 21-100 was running fine until the NR? That's when your problems began? If that's what happened, don't you find it rather disturbing that your HDD got damaged by that NR?
> 
> Rich


Yes, it was just fine until the NR. I won't come out and say that there's a cause and effect here... you need evidence before a claim like that can be made.

However, my case was escalated up to Case Management and after working with them, they admitted that the new NR was intended to identify marginal HD with the new software, attempt to repair them (if possible) and get them out of circulation.

I was replaced with a HR22-100 and 034c was dowloaded that day... no issues with any recording at this point or pausing live playback...

Thanks,

JerseyReef - Mike


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## kevinturcotte (Dec 19, 2006)

rich584 said:


> Let me guess, your 21-100 was running fine until the NR? That's when your problems began? If that's what happened, don't you find it rather disturbing that your HDD got damaged by that NR?
> 
> Rich


It's not that the sw update damaged the hard drive, the hard drive was already going bad to begin with. The update just made this more obvious.


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

kturcotte said:


> It's not that the sw update damaged the hard drive, the hard drive was already going bad to begin with. The update just made this more obvious.


I concur with kturcotte (what's your first name?). Although, please note... I had no detecable issues with playback until the NR. The update just made the already marginal HD become more apparent. That part is intentional...Just like when one of my HD goes bad on my machine, I have no idea that's currently marginal and about to fail at any given momment, until it's too late. 

Rich - please just understand that from a statical POV, there is no proof of cause and effect here. The software is just meant to indentfiy marginal HDs and mine was one of them...

Thanks,

JerseyReef - Mike


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm at a friends house who just had D* installed 2 months ago. Receiver has been stuttering and stopping for the last couple of weeks and recently started rebooting on its own. Today, while we were watching recordings, it rebooted twice in the span of 3 hours. I ran a HD test (SMART Short Test) and received a "Fail-0x77". Don't have time to do a long test right now. 

Should this receiver be replaced?


edit: Hr1-200 running 0x34c


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## jerseyreef (Jun 9, 2007)

spartanstew said:


> I'm at a friends house who just had D* installed 2 months ago. Receiver has been stuttering and stopping for the last couple of weeks and recently started rebooting on its own. Today, while we were watching recordings, it rebooted twice in the span of 3 hours. I ran a HD test (SMART Short Test) and received a "Fail-0x77". Don't have time to do a long test right now.
> 
> Should this receiver be replaced?
> 
> edit: Hr1-200 running 0x34c


If you're unable to pass the short SMART test, then in all likelihood, the STB will need to be replaced. However, this will only be a call that D* can make. They will most likely try to reformat the HD first, that will most likely fail and then the STB will be replaced. Try to get the ticket escalated to "Case Management" and get the STB replaced for free (no shipping charges).

Thanks,

JerseyReef - Mike


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## Vinny* (May 18, 2008)

Most on my recorded programs start to stop and start about 1/2 way through for the last couple of days. So I ran some tests as suggested on this forum

Ran an Internal Hard Drive Test. I get an error message on the Smart Short Test of x77. Tried it again and it passed. Does getting that error at all mean I need to reformat the hard drive?


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## Mockenrue (Oct 11, 2006)

Same problem here. I don't believe that they'd pick THIS way of identifying marginal hard drives. Trigger stutters, skips, and much louder noise? Then wait for frustrated people to call (or just pick this time to switch to cable or Fios)? If they really wanted to get bad drives out of circulation, they'd have an auto-check feature that reported errors back to DTV without the consumer knowing. It's much more likely that they put in new software that works the hard drives much harder (double buffer?). The "always running" nature of these units will shorten the life of all drives running this software release, marginal or not.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Many of us are having the same issue. See THIS thread. It couldn't possibly be software related just because it started happening to many, many people at the exact same time. Must be some mysterious force like the one that caused mass blackouts in Flash Forward.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

kevinturcotte said:


> It's not that the sw update damaged the hard drive, the hard drive was already going bad to begin with. The update just made this more obvious.


So, that's why the NR took out a brand new WD Caviar Green 1.5 HDD? Do you really believe the BS we're getting handed? How many reports of HDDs getting destroyed by that NR do you have to see before you begin to doubt?

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

Mockenrue said:


> Same problem here. I don't believe that they'd pick THIS way of identifying marginal hard drives. Trigger stutters, skips, and much louder noise? Then wait for frustrated people to call (or just pick this time to switch to cable or Fios)? If they really wanted to get bad drives out of circulation, they'd have an auto-check feature that reported errors back to DTV without the consumer knowing. It's much more likely that they put in new software that works the hard drives much harder (double buffer?). The "always running" nature of these units will shorten the life of all drives running this software release, marginal or not.


At last, a glimmer of intelligence. As soon as I found out about the DLB NR I figured we were in for at least a minor nightmare. The two eSATAs that the NR took out were valued at a total of about $600. I'm still getting the audio dropouts and video dropouts and the pixellations. This is like time travel, right back to late '06, early '07. Prior to the DLB NR, I had perfectly stable HRs with no problems. This isn't the first time that they've put out an NR that wasn't ready for use by the general public.

Why would D* want to get mass numbers of HDDs out of circulation? What possible reason is there for that? How many people have to post about HDDs working perfectly one day and wrecked the next day by that NR for people to start believing that the software is at fault for this? Again I say, marginal HDDs my foot! Just because the people that are in that unmentionable program managed to "condition" their HRs is no reason to believe the nonsense of "marginal" HDDs. I've had one Moderator tell me that the diagnostics couldn't have taken out my eSATAs. Who are we supposed to believe?

Sound like I'm angry? You betcha.

Rich


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Many of us are having the same issue. See THIS thread. It couldn't possibly be software related just because it started happening to many, many people at the exact same time. Must be some mysterious force like the one that caused mass blackouts in Flash Forward.


I don't think that there's anything mysterious about this at all. Once again we get hit by an NR that isn't thoroughly tested and once again all we get is pacification.

Imagine if D* announced tomorrow that they were going to start an airline. Would anyone be foolish enough to buy a ticket and actually get on board, thinking that the plane wasn't gonna fall out of the sky? A draconian example, I'll admit, but think about it. And think about this: What is the least reliable device you have in your home? After three years they still can't get it right.

Rich


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Of course it's software related. You didn't pick up on the sarcasm in my Flash Forward comment.


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

mdavej said:


> Of course it's software related. You didn't pick up on the sarcasm in my Flash Forward comment.


I did get that, but I'm way past sarcasm. I'm angry as hell and I'm tired of being pacified and placated. I do agree with you about the software. Explaining it any other way is beyond logic. Having "marginal" HDDs destroyed by NRs and trying to deny that the software is the cause isn't the answer. Proper testing by D* is the answer.

Rich


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

There is hope. I realize this couldn't POSSIBLY be software related, but I wanted to report that my failing hard drive is miraculously repairing itself under the latest software. It my be too early to say for sure, but I had only a single 1 second freeze early on, and haven't had any problems since (36 hrs so far).

Now that my HR20 has mysterious hardware repairing powers (totally unrelated to software), I'm thinking of installing other failing hard drives into it so they'll repair themselves too. Just kidding, I'd never (gasp) tamper with my HR20.

Seriously though, this means that D* has at least acknowledged the issue and has taken steps in the right direction to correct the software, in spite of the speculation and incorrect info many have been posting. I realize that those who claim it's not software related are only parroting what D* tells them. D* just fed them bad information in this case. It still makes me angry that they refuse to be honest with us. And outright denial of such an obvious problem is just insulting.


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## AntonyB (May 2, 2008)

mdavej said:


> There is hope. I realize this couldn't POSSIBLY be software related, but I wanted to report that my failing hard drive is miraculously repairing itself under the latest software. It my be too early to say for sure, but I had only a single 1 second freeze early on, and haven't had any problems since (36 hrs so far).


My experience so far (about a week with 0368):
- First day or two I saw almost no problems and heard very little hard drive activity.
- Then the freezes on playback began to be noticeable, but not as much as with 034C.
- Now I notice (audibly) almost as much HDD activity as with 034C, but not observing as many freeze ups on playback as 034C. I would not say that the problem is diminishing over time.

HR20-700.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Vinny* said:


> Most on my recorded programs start to stop and start about 1/2 way through for the last couple of days. So I ran some tests as suggested on this forum
> 
> Ran an Internal Hard Drive Test. I get an error message on the Smart Short Test of x77. Tried it again and it passed. Does getting that error at all mean I need to reformat the hard drive?


It means you need to replace the unit. Reformatting won't help at all. It will only cover up the problem for a little while.

S.M.A.R.T. tests have lots of false negatives but extremely few false positives. That hard drive is on its way out.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I did get that, but I'm way past sarcasm. I'm angry as hell and I'm tired of being pacified and placated. I do agree with you about the software. Explaining it any other way is beyond logic. Having "marginal" HDDs destroyed by NRs and trying to deny that the software is the cause isn't the answer. Proper testing by D* is the answer.
> 
> Rich


What do you mean "destroyed"? Are the drives not recognized by a PC at all anymore, or just by the HRs? Are they getting lots of errors?


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## Rich (Feb 22, 2007)

bobcamp1 said:


> What do you mean "destroyed"? Are the drives not recognized by a PC at all anymore, or just by the HRs? Are they getting lots of errors?


I've never put an HDD from an HR on a computer. Seems like a waste of time from the posts I've read. Simpler just to replace them. It's not like they cost a fortune anymore. "Destroyed" as in they don't work.

Rich


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

mdavej said:


> There is hope. I realize this couldn't POSSIBLY be software related, but I wanted to report that my failing hard drive is miraculously repairing itself under the latest software. It my be too early to say for sure, but I had only a single 1 second freeze early on, and haven't had any problems since (36 hrs so far).


Good to hear .. and so you aren't misquoting me .. I said this is not a software issue.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

rich584 said:


> I've never put an HDD from an HR on a computer. Seems like a waste of time from the posts I've read. Simpler just to replace them. It's not like they cost a fortune anymore. "Destroyed" as in they don't work.
> 
> Rich


So those drives are suddenly no longer compatible. For an unsupported feature. Was the drive on the unofficial list of drives to use? Since eSATA is still unsupported -- D* doesn't have to anything to fix your problem. Convenient for them, not so much for you.

By plugging the drive into a PC, you could run low level diagnostics on it. Or at least see if the PC will see it.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Good to hear .. and so you aren't misquoting me .. I said this is not a software issue.


Doug,
You missed the sarcasm. It most certainly is 100% a software issue. But I do have evidence that D* is aware and taking steps to fix it, so not all hope is lost. Whether the fix was an accidental side effect of other changes remains to be seen.

People removing hard drives and testing them is pointless, and voids their warranty. There is no mass hardware failure going on that just happened to start with 034C. Just be patient. A fix is in the pipeline.


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> Good to hear .. and so you aren't misquoting me .. I said this is not a software issue.


Software is either directly or indirectly involved. A sudden spike of complaints immediately after a software release is by definition either a software or system (hardware + software) issue. No one snuck into these people's houses in the middle of the night and gave them all a hardware update simultaneously!

Software is also capable of covering up or triggering latent hardware defects. So either the software isn't covering up that defect anymore, or the software is more demanding on the hardware now which is exposing the defect.


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## mdavej (Jan 31, 2007)

Kind of like when I upgraded my PC from XP to Vista a while back. Although my PC ran fast under XP, and like a dog under Vista, it just exposed the fact that my new PC must have had a defective hard drive all along. It had nothing to do with bloated, inefficient code at all. Makes perfect sense to me. Installing Windows 7 will probably coincide with my hard drive spontaneously repairing itself.

I wonder if I could use this on my clients. "Hey, our pc's are really slow since you installed that new version", they would tell me. I'd say, "Your pc has always been slow. My new software just made it more apparent. There's absolutely no problem with my software."


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

bobcamp1 said:


> Software is either directly or indirectly involved.


I never commented on this statement either way ..


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## bobcamp1 (Nov 8, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> "Software is either directly or indirectly involved." I never commented on this statement either way ..





Doug Brott said:


> Good to hear .. and so you aren't misquoting me .. I said this is not a software issue.


So the software may or may not be involved, but it's not a software issue.

This is like playing 20 questions LOL. Is the problem an animal, a vegetable, or a mineral?

Considering a recall of every single DVR is not going to happen, when can customers expect D* to ISSUE new SOFTWARE that fully addresses the problem? :grin:


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## pigskins (Sep 8, 2007)

I finally had enough and had the time to deal with a CSR last night, so I called in to report that for the past few weeks, since a software upgrade, on my HR20, I have not been able to watch recorded shows, or rewind and watch live TV because the audio stutters and the picture sometimes does as well. I was prepared for them to tell me to format the hard drive, which is what they told me to do.

Perform a reset, and when the screen says "Just a few more seconds" hit the REC and down arrow buttons on the DVR itself. I did, and the message "Scanning disk..." came up. The scan completed after more than 2 hours. The CSR (who said he was in Tech Support) told me this was formatting my hard drive.

Guess what? After it was done and it rebooted, all of my recorded programs were still there. At least it completed the scan, because when I try to do a long scan from the utilities menu, it stops at 4% with error 77.

During the conversation with the CSR and when he said we'll have to do a format, I said, you mean go to the Reset All screen right? He said no, that's not a format.

When this junk started happening, we began recording shows on both of our DVRs. They play back fine on the other, an HR21. I'll record a few shows to see if the scan helped.


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