# 522 / 625 L254 Timer Conflict - Bug?



## phat_b (Apr 19, 2005)

Forgive me if this has been reported elsewhere, but I ran into an issue yesterday that somewhat concerned me. Between commercial breaks (there were plenty of them during the Pats vs Steelers game) I started looking at the dvr schedule, and noticed that one of the Monday night shows I had setup with a dish pass was being skipped all the time 'due to conflict'. The only problem is that there was no conflict. There was another program on another channel set to be recorded, but that doesn't seem to be a conflict to me (receiver is in dual mode, record plus enabled and set to TV1). Anyway, I tried deleting the timers and re-creating them from TV1 with many different options (one time, all, new, etc.) to no avail. The only way I was able to get both timers to work without reporting a conflict was to setup one from TV1, and the other from TV2. In the past this would work fine from either output - the second program would default over to the free tuner as it's supposed to when you enable record plus. I can't say with any certainty, but I'm relatively sure that this issue was present in the previous software version, as I just received 254 on Thursday of last week, and last Monday's timer for the second of these two programs failed to record then as well.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

phat_b said:


> Forgive me if this has been reported elsewhere, but I ran into an issue yesterday that somewhat concerned me. Between commercial breaks (there were plenty of them during the Pats vs Steelers game) I started looking at the dvr schedule, and noticed that one of the Monday night shows I had setup with a dish pass was being skipped all the time 'due to conflict'. The only problem is that there was no conflict. There was another program on another channel set to be recorded, but that doesn't seem to be a conflict to me (receiver is in dual mode, record plus enabled and set to TV1). Anyway, I tried deleting the timers and re-creating them from TV1 with many different options (one time, all, new, etc.) to no avail. The only way I was able to get both timers to work without reporting a conflict was to setup one from TV1, and the other from TV2. In the past this would work fine from either output - the second program would default over to the free tuner as it's supposed to when you enable record plus. I can't say with any certainty, but I'm relatively sure that this issue was present in the previous software version, as I just received 254 on Thursday of last week, and last Monday's timer for the second of these two programs failed to record then as well.


This bug has been around awhile. I have this issue when I have my default set to TV1 in Dual mode. If you switch the default to TV2 and then restore 1 of your programs thru the guide, it will temporarily fix all your conflicts. Of course when you revert back to TV1 default, the problem comes back. Seems the software was written well for Single Mode, but for dual mode their are a number of odd issues. The 942 has the same exact problem.


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

This is my #1 gripe about the 522. It took me a while to figure out why stuff was just not being recorded as there was no message that I could find at the time about any conflict. Finally figured this was the problem. We don't want TV2 to be the default but have to give up watching TV in the bedroom just so we don't hit conflicts. This is top of my list of bugs to fix, even above dropouts which don't show up on my system very much if at all these days.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

adv_dp_fan said:


> This is my #1 gripe about the 522. It took me a while to figure out why stuff was just not being recorded as there was no message that I could find at the time about any conflict. Finally figured this was the problem. We don't want TV2 to be the default but have to give up watching TV in the bedroom just so we don't hit conflicts. This is top of my list of bugs to fix, even above dropouts which don't show up on my system very much if at all these days.


It seems this should be a 5 minute fix for any "decent" programmer. I cannot understand why this wasn't identified/resolved much earlier. I'm not holding my breath.


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## jessshaun (Sep 14, 2005)

I have been having the EXACT same problem with 1 show. I record Ghost Hunters on Sci-Fi because I work. I have nothing else set to record at that time, and it ALWAYS skips that show. Last week I ran a little test, and set a manual timer at the same time. The manual timer recorded the show, the other was skipped. So the only way I know of to get around this issue is to set a manual timer.

Edit: BTW... I use my 625 in single mode, so the problem is not limited to dual mode.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

jessshaun said:


> I have been having the EXACT same problem with 1 show. I record Ghost Hunters on Sci-Fi because I work. I have nothing else set to record at that time, and it ALWAYS skips that show. Last week I ran a little test, and set a manual timer at the same time. The manual timer recorded the show, the other was skipped. So the only way I know of to get around this issue is to set a manual timer.
> 
> Edit: BTW... I use my 625 in single mode, so the problem is not limited to dual mode.


This is a different issue. Our issue is not being able to record 2 programs at once when there is a conflict.


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## phat_b (Apr 19, 2005)

When I looked at this last night I was further befuddled. Evidently when the box downloaded the guide updates on Monday morning it recreated the timer conflict. The only way I was able to make it record two shows at once was to turn off record plus and create one timer from TV1, and to be honest I'm not 100% sure that worked either. Man, this is annoying. How can they screw up something so simple?


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

phat_b said:


> When I looked at this last night I was further befuddled. Evidently when the box downloaded the guide updates on Monday morning it recreated the timer conflict. The only way I was able to make it record two shows at once was to turn off record plus and create one timer from TV1, and to be honest I'm not 100% sure that worked either. Man, this is annoying. How can they screw up something so simple?


I tried making some timers on TV1 and some on TV2. It does not work consistently. One day you can look at the schedule and see both programs scheduled properly, and the next day one is marked as skipped again. The only way I have found that works most of the time is to bite the bullet and switch the default back to TV2 whenever there is a conflict you definately need recorded. My guess is that the ability to change the default TV was added as an afterthought and nobody bothered to really think about how it would impact other areas of their code. It is simple which makes waiting for a fix that much more aggravating.


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

It is very aggravating as at the moment I have ZERO faith in the dvr to record my shows. I've missed several at this point and about the only thing I can do is set up a manual timer on my dvd recorder and my 811 to take over from the dvr. In which case I might as well dump the dvr and just use a standard receiver. It is VERY frustrating and is my main complaint with Dish at this point.


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## mrschwarz (May 8, 2004)

My workaround for this is to not create timers and create Dish Passes for a single channel instead. It seems that a Dish Pass will schedule for either tuner, but a specific timer likes to stay with the tuner it was created on.


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

Ok now this is getting silly. Today I'm scanning the shows scheduled to be recorded to skip the non-new new ones as usual and I notice one show is missing. I discover that it's not being recorded because of a timer conflict even though the other tuner is free. I switch the default tuner in settings and "restore" that show and yay, it will record both now. BUT! On a different day, two shows that didn't have a problem before NOW have a timer conflict. Change the default back and those shows are fine but the first one is messed up again! This is getting to be really stupid!! I'm about ready to dump my Dish setup and maybe try DirecTV.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

adv_dp_fan said:


> Ok now this is getting silly. Today I'm scanning the shows scheduled to be recorded to skip the non-new new ones as usual and I notice one show is missing. I discover that it's not being recorded because of a timer conflict even though the other tuner is free. I switch the default tuner in settings and "restore" that show and yay, it will record both now. BUT! On a different day, two shows that didn't have a problem before NOW have a timer conflict. Change the default back and those shows are fine but the first one is messed up again! This is getting to be really stupid!! I'm about ready to dump my Dish setup and maybe try DirecTV.


I have not been able to figure out why some conflicts work with default TV1 and others TV2. I thought the TV the timer was created on might be the key, but experimentation has failed to get a consistent answer. I have not yet tried the trick of changing the timers to single channel Dishpasses. Switching to Single Mode seems to always work but that defeats the purpose of Dual Mode.

It is aggravating but I don't think this glitch is worth switching to D* and their crappy HD-Lite.


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

I may give the Dish Pass thing a try but I'm really getting tired of all the missed recordings. I really like Dish and would love to stick with them but I just can't trust their DVR any more. Maybe I could find someother DVR that would still work with Dish and that I could count on to record the progams I tell it to... argh! It's so frustrating.


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## mrschwarz (May 8, 2004)

Actually, with this version of the software, my Dishpass solution is not working like it used to. It seems that sometimes I have the second tuner sitting idle even when there is a Dishpass wanting to record (but doesn't because of a priority).

I haven't figured out the pattern, yet.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

mrschwarz said:


> Actually, with this version of the software, my Dishpass solution is not working like it used to. It seems that sometimes I have the second tuner sitting idle even when there is a Dishpass wanting to record (but doesn't because of a priority).
> 
> I haven't figured out the pattern, yet.


I don't think there is a pattern. I have experimented with every variation of timer setup possible. Sometimes the conflicts work, sometimes they don't.


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## phat_b (Apr 19, 2005)

I think the best thing to do about this for everyone experiencing this issue to submit a complaint here: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/contact_us/index.asp

They will respond asking you for the follwing info:

> Thank you for your e-mail. So that we can research this issue, please
> respond with the following information from the 'System Info 1' Screen
> (press 'MENU' 6-1-3): 
> 
> Model ID (field D, top line):
> Receiver CAID (field E):
> Smartcard ID (field E):
> Software Version (field D, bottom line):
> 
> >From the System Info 3 screen (press '3' on your remote):
> 
> Hardware ID:
> Bootstrap Version:

Be concise with your problem report, and maybe we'll see something get done about this. Of course, it will probably get fixed at the expense of some other funtionality, but whaddya gonna do???


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

Wonderful... well in my case I have another possible work around but it isn't something that would help many others. My setup has an 811 and the TV1 from my 522 on the main TV downstairs, TV2 from the 522 runs up to the bedroom. I wanted TV1 to be the default tuner for recording with TV2 taking conflicts as I can watch the 811 downstairs when the 522 is recording but can't do that upstairs. My thought was this, since TV1 uses the IR remote and TV2 uses the RF, can I swap the outputs and swap the controller IDs so that TV1 is running upstairs but using the RF remote and TV2 is downstairs using the IR remote? I may look into this when I get home. Doesn't solve all of my problems with it but it would cover one for the moment.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

adv_dp_fan said:


> Wonderful... well in my case I have another possible work around but it isn't something that would help many others. My setup has an 811 and the TV1 from my 522 on the main TV downstairs, TV2 from the 522 runs up to the bedroom. I wanted TV1 to be the default tuner for recording with TV2 taking conflicts as I can watch the 811 downstairs when the 522 is recording but can't do that upstairs. My thought was this, since TV1 uses the IR remote and TV2 uses the RF, can I swap the outputs and swap the controller IDs so that TV1 is running upstairs but using the RF remote and TV2 is downstairs using the IR remote? I may look into this when I get home. Doesn't solve all of my problems with it but it would cover one for the moment.


Why don't you just switch to Single Mode when you want to watch upstairs while tuner 1 is recording?


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

If I switch to single mode then the upstairs tuner is no long availabe as it is TV2. So that wouldn't help me upstairs while tuner 1 is recoding. Of course it's not when turner 1 is recording that is the problem as that's when I watch the 811. That's actually the way I want it but due to the "bug" it won't work that way.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

adv_dp_fan said:


> If I switch to single mode then the upstairs tuner is no long availabe as it is TV2. So that wouldn't help me upstairs while tuner 1 is recoding. Of course it's not when turner 1 is recording that is the problem as that's when I watch the 811. That's actually the way I want it but due to the "bug" it won't work that way.


In Single Mode you can watch either tuner on either TV. Both TVs essentially become one in the same. This does not work if you want to use both tvs at the same time. That is what Dual mode was designed for. If it's just you, there is no reason not to be in Single Mode.


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

Ok, if that's how single mode works I may try it. Still need the bug fixed as that means a lot of mode switching when we each want to watch different recorded programs. I'll play around with that and see how well it works for us. But I'll also continue to complain to Dish about getting the bug fixed.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

adv_dp_fan said:


> Ok, if that's how single mode works I may try it. Still need the bug fixed as that means a lot of mode switching when we each want to watch different recorded programs. I'll play around with that and see how well it works for us. But I'll also continue to complain to Dish about getting the bug fixed.


Agreed. I cannot use single mode because my wife is always jumping on tv2 while I watch tv1. Until they get this fixed though, switching to single when you will be away from the tv awhile prevents most of the missed timers.


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

Ticked cuz I had another missed timer last night. This isn't the timer conflict bug, this is just a "I don't feel like recording your show and won't tell you anything" bug.  I notice this happens after a while and I have to delete timers and redo them to get them to record again. I'm about to give up on the whole name based crap and just set standard timers from now on as that seems to be the only way to be sure I get something to record when I want it to.


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## maximum (Jun 23, 2004)

My wife has called Dish a few times to report this bug and each time the CSR says he/she has never heard of this problem. Don't know if they are lying or if they are really that uninformed.

Might be wishful thinking but if they get enough complaints, maybe they'll actually do something to fix it. I think Dish won't do anything about it unless they get a large number of complaints from different customers. At the very least maybe the CSRs will get the clue that this is a common problem with the 522/625


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## mrschwarz (May 8, 2004)

I beleive that when it comes to technology and communications, CSRs are instructed to say that this is the first time they have heard of this. For every issue I have had with a 522 that was reported by someone here, the CSRs had never heard of it.

When I had Comcast internet, every problem that I had, which almost always had something to do with their system, wasm always 'never heard of' and was always a problem with my setup. This was true even when it mysteriously started working again without me making any changes or restting anything.

It's a sign of dishonesty or incompetence.


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## Racerx (Dec 5, 2004)

I think it's BOTH.


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## mallu2u (Jul 23, 2004)

I am another one who HATES this bug. Had called Dish when I saw this issue and agent spent a long time with me on phone and finally just told me to disable record plus and manually setup the show on TVs as desired. This is a ridiculous workaround. This means every time I need to setup something I need to see if that time is free and if not, go to the other room and setup recording there...that is a ridiculous workaround. Funny that I paid $150 to upgrade to this receiver. Seems like my 510 along with VHS was doing the same job, LOL


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

mallu2u said:


> I am another one who HATES this bug. Had called Dish when I saw this issue and agent spent a long time with me on phone and finally just told me to disable record plus and manually setup the show on TVs as desired. This is a ridiculous workaround. This means every time I need to setup something I need to see if that time is free and if not, go to the other room and setup recording there...that is a ridiculous workaround. Funny that I paid $150 to upgrade to this receiver. Seems like my 510 along with VHS was doing the same job, LOL


The best workaround is to toggle the default record TV in Record Plus.


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## phat_b (Apr 19, 2005)

LtMunst said:


> The best workaround is to toggle the default record TV in Record Plus.


Not sure I follow you. If I try to record two shows on diff. channels with record plus enabled (regardless of the preferred tuner setting), they always conflict. Are you saying to swap the default tuner value after the timer has been created? I think that only works until the guide next updates.


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## mrschwarz (May 8, 2004)

If you have record plus set up to favor TV1 and are working on TV1, you cannot record anything on TV2, unless you set it up on TV2. If you are on TV1 and record plus is set up to favor TV2, the first choice will record on TV2 and your second choice will record on TV1.

Another undocumented 'feature' that has been around since the beginning. I don't want them to fix it. If they do, they may break something else.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

phat_b said:


> Not sure I follow you. If I try to record two shows on diff. channels with record plus enabled (regardless of the preferred tuner setting), they always conflict. Are you saying to swap the default tuner value after the timer has been created? I think that only works until the guide next updates.


I generally prefer to keep my default record TV as TV1. When there is a conflicted timer I want to record, usually temporarily switching the default to TV2 will cause the conflict to become properly scheduled. This works probably 90% of the time.


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## adv_dp_fan (Sep 5, 2004)

I had a case recently where doing that would fix one conflict but break another. Switch it again fixed the second conflict but broke the first. It was very frustrating.


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## LtMunst (Aug 24, 2005)

adv_dp_fan said:


> I had a case recently where doing that would fix one conflict but break another. Switch it again fixed the second conflict but broke the first. It was very frustrating.


I have seen that also.


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## phat_b (Apr 19, 2005)

mrschwarz said:


> Another undocumented 'feature' that has been around since the beginning. I don't want them to fix it. If they do, they may break something else.


Not true. This used to work (as we perceive it's supposed to) because I've always had mine set to TV1, and have created timers exclusively from TV2. It was working as recently as this May.

I sympathize with your mindset of not wanting them to break something else though. How very typical it would be to see an old bug resurface if they did fix it...

:nono:


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## PrivateIdaho (Jun 26, 2003)

Okay. I ran into this. Here are the things I noticed.

Record Plus default TV1.

Add a timer using TV1 remote. Fine.
Add second overlapping timer using TV1 remote. Won't let me. Says there is a convlict. Go down stairs and ust the TV2 remote and it allows me to add the timer.

I made the mistake of moving my receiver from downstairs to upstairs. So I switched the record plus default.

Here is my theory.

The 625 remembers which tuner remote created the recording. The remote that is not the record plus default has presidence. I think if you do all of your scheduling on the "primary" tv then the problem will go away. You can fix the problem by switching the record plus default, setting up your timer and switching back, but the timer will fail (happen to me on the final Survivor).

I am going to try creating all of the timers on the "primary" tv. I will let you know if this works.


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