# The DIRECTV Plus High Definition DVR: Year Two



## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

_This article is a collective effort of Doug Brott and Stuart Sweet._

After a jam packed year, the DIRECTV Plus High Definition DVR has become the flagship receiver for a company that can now be described as the leader in high-definition television. The enthusiast community is stronger than ever, fusing innovation and collaboration in ways that have never been done before. Sit back while we reflect on the things that have made this trip something to remember.

Joining the HR20-700 and the HR20-100 this year are the HR21-100, HR21-200, and HR21-700 The new HR21 models sport a sleek black exterior and function in much the same way as the HR20 models. While the HR21 series lacks the HR20's built-in ATSC tuner, DIRECTV moved aggressively to cover the nation with local HD channels, and provided the AM21 antenna module for those still awaiting satellite coverage. Professional users also welcomed the HR21-Pro.

The DIRECTV Plus HD DVR also added another member of the family in its second year: the R22 Standard Defintion DVR, designed for markets where standard-definition local channels were encoded in the superior MPEG-4 format. The R22 DVR has all the features of its HD brethren, except of course true HD. However, it can output EDTV (480p) through component or HDMI, and can use all the other advanced functions of the Plus HD DVR, including media sharing and On Demand. By using the more mature software and hardware of the HR21 series, the R22 was able to hit the streets quickly in response to DIRECTV's expansion into new markets.

*Consumer Electronics Show*

The 2008 Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas brought more news of the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR product line. DIRECTV hosted its own enclosed "experience" room, along with silver-coated satellite dishes, nearly 100 large flat screen TVs, and a simulated "install experience" covered through a window crafted to look like a TV screen. Of course, this was all icing on the cake for the news of DIRECTV's changes to the Plus HD DVR series.

The AM21 off-air tuner was revealed, and with the AM21 there was truly no difference in capabilities between any member of the Plus HD DVR line. A short few months later, the AM21 became available to the public.

DIRECTV also showed the Samsung-built HR21Pro. Designed for rack mounting with a larger hard drive and more ventilation, the HR21Pro was designed with installers in mind and allowed for Optical HDMI (OWLink was on site with a solution) and serial IR control. The HR21Pro became available to the public shortly after the close of the Consumer Electronics Show.

Also, DIRECTV showed a beta of software to playback DIRECTV Plus HD DVR content on your PC, which is in limited testing at DBStalk.com.

*The Beat Goes On*

There were 10 national software releases for the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR in its second year, all delivered via satellite, and included everything from new features to bug fixes. This number was fewer than half of the 23 updates required in the HR20's first year.

DIRECTV also began utilizing the enthusiast community at a much more frequent rate - the Cutting Edge (CE) program (at DBSTalk.com) became the go-to place each week for enthusiasts to contribute to DIRECTV's success. Never before had real DIRECTV customers become so visible. The collaboration between DIRECTV and its customers enabled average people to download pre-release firmware and kick the tires before the firmware reaches the general public. In this way, new features or changes can be eased into the software rather than making one big monster change that would otherwise be pushed to all DIRECTV Plus HD DVR customers at the same time. Cutting Edgers, or "CE'ers" as we call ourselves, test new features and check national release candidates helping DIRECTV to bring the best product to its millions of subscribers..

The CE program has grown up over that past year as well. The process has become a nearly weekly event involving the distribution of information, the collection of data and a visit to the Chat Room each time new software is available for the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR. Each week, there are Chat Room regulars that help point new folks in the right direction. While this process has more or less grown as a grass roots effort, it has proven to be an effective means of getting to the goal of a perfect receiver.

The CE collaboration made a quantum leap when DIRECTV gave testers the ability to send detailed logs and information over their network line. This gave DIRECTV engineers information to more quickly identify problems and, as a result, more quickly provide a solution. The network issue reporting system is completely "opt-in" and does not interfere with the regular user's experience. No other system like this has ever been implemented on a set-top box, and is clear evidence of DIRECTV's commitment to the Cutting Edge.

Some of the notable features added to the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR this year are (with the software version in which they appeared):


Added Resume/Start Over options for playback of recordings
Added Delete button to My Playlist and To Do List
DIRECTV on Demand
Hide SD channels if duplicate HD channel exists
Triple Tap Lookup for DIRECTV on Demand
30 Second Skip
MediaShare
Boolean Search
Shortcut for Closed Caption On/Off
Pass-through (Original Format) Option
GameSearch
Triple Tap for Search
Network Issue Reporting

*Simply the Best*

One of the most exciting features to come to the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR in the second year isn't even built into the box. The addition of new high-definition channels has brought a new meaning to having high-definition television. In September, 2007, DIRECTV moved its new satellite (DIRECTV10) into position and lit up 30 new HD channels overnight including SciFi, CNN, and The History Channel. With that one change, the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR all of a sudden became the receiver of choice. In addition, DIRECTV now has HD local channels in over 77 different market areas. This encompasses nearly 80% of all US households. With another satellite (DIRECTV11) coming online and yet another satellite (DIRECTV12) going up next year, DIRECTV is positioned to provide 200 national HD channels when it's all said and done. The DIRECTV Plus HD DVR will provide access to the current and future high-definition content.

Another highly anticipated feature added in the past year is *DIRECTV on Demand*. By simply connecting the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR to a high-speed home network connection, users can download movies from DIRECTV with the push of a button. The programs available include television shows, documentaries, music videos among others. Recently, DIRECTV began charging for some of the content, but much of it is free and all of it is available to 24 hours a day.

*Catering to the Enthusiast*

In a nod to power users, DIRECTV implemented three incredibly powerful search improvments in its second year.


For sports fans, *GameSearch* will automatically seek out rebroadcasts of games that are blacked out on a particular channel. This feature is automatic and is proving to be a real crowd pleaser.
*Triple Tap*, a suggestion from the HR20/HR21 Wish List, allows users to bypass the "grid" system for choosing letters and numbers, and lets them instead use their remote controls as they would use cell phone keypads. Pushing "2" once for "A" and twice for "B" has been a major improvement to the search experience for advanced users.
The most powerful search option available, *Boolean Search*, lets users create complex search using Boolean operators (AALL, NNOT, AANY) and limitations on content (TTITLE, NNAME, CCHAN) for the ultimate in flexibility. For example, it's now possible to pick only "Law and Order" episodes on USA that feature Chris Noth with a single query.

The *original format* option was added, allowing the purest possible viewing experience for the user by sending picture and sound directly to the television and AV receiver with no postprocessing. DIRECTV's HD DVR is unique in the Satellite industry as the only receiver to offer this option.

*User Experience Improvements: DIRECTV reaches out*

This past year also saw sweeping improvements to the DIRECTV user interface. DBSTalk users had debated since the introduction of the first non-TiVo DVR as to which user interface was better. Through a series of guided discussions, DIRECTV engineers embarked on a complete revamp of the user interface. The Menu button now brought up the same options regardless of where it was used, and the Yellow button, formerly used in an inconsistent way, now brought up context-sensitive options for every screen. Among these was a welcome improvement: a way to turn closed captioning on or off in three pushes instead of nineteen. While access to the to do list now took 5 pushes instead of two, the improvements to other options eclipsed this for many users.

Updated splash screens gave users a better experience during reboots with fully-rendered logos. This minor change, aimed at pleasing CE'ers, sometimes preceded messages telling regular users what had changed.

Throughout the second year of the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR, DBSTalk members tested new technologies and new software. One of the most interesting was the Media Share PC software which allowed PCs to stream programs from HD DVRs, with all the same controls as the user would have at the television. Unlike other products that simply capture the output from the TV and re-encode it, Media Share PC is DIRECTV's first step toward true multi-room viewing. The programming on the PC can be completely different from what the user on the TV sees, and is transferred to the PC at full resolution, making this the first HD multi-room viewing solution from a major provider.

While the requirements for the client PC are steep by 2008 standards, advances in technology will bring this solution closer to mass availability quickly. For now, most PCs capable of playing Blu-Ray discs should be able to share media. Using industry-standard security measures, users cannot save streamed content or move it out of the local network, ensuring that DIRECTV can honor its agreements with content providers.

*Until Next Time*

The enthusiast community at DBSTalk.com has become an everyday part of the improvents to the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR. The CE program, started by Earl Bonovich, has proven that customers and corporations can work together to make a product even better. A number of exciting features have been added in the past year and DIRECTV has even more exciting features in the works for the next year. The addition of significant HD content in the past year will be followed by the addition of even more HD content in the coming year, and the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR series will be the receiver that will make it all available.

It has been our pleasure to be part of the enthusiast community and part of the improvement process. Year three promises to be the best yet!

Doug Brott, Super Moderator, DBSTalk.com
Stuart Sweet, Super Moderator, DBSTalk.com


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Terrific job Doug and Stuart.

This helps really put things in perspect on two fronts:

1) How far we've come in the past year alone

2) What new capabilities/services have been added

In any case....this is a super summary that wonderfully outlines all the efforts, bumps in the road, and activites tied to this primary delivery channel and related equipment. Acknowledgement of Earl B.'s participation in all this is very appropriate.

Thanks for your thorough report.


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## Steve Robertson (Jun 7, 2005)

Great job I enjoyed reading it.


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## dmurphy (Sep 28, 2006)

Well done gents!

It has truly been an outstanding experience with the HR20 .... It's really so great having the ability to influence the design & development of a major piece of consumer equipment.... 

I really appreciate being given this opportunity, and seeing the fruits of the collective labor is just outstanding.

ALL of the Cutting Edge members should be so happy - it's really amazing where this journey has taken us so far, and I'm sure it's got a few more twists and bends in it!


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## syphix (Jun 23, 2004)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Terrific job Doug and Stuart.
> 
> This helps really put things in perspect on two fronts:
> 
> ...


+1000! Great job, guys! :up:


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## hasan (Sep 22, 2006)

Very nice summary and quite well written! Thanks for taking the time for presenting both context and perspective on the HR series development.


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## MIAMI1683 (Jul 11, 2007)

Very nice guys. As always excellent write up.


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## FYRPLG (Nov 11, 2006)

GREAT JOB

It has been an interesting and educational experience

Good luck Guys:


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Excellent job guys! That was a great read!


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Thanks guys .. Just as a side note. Stuart and I have been working together for nearly 2 years ourselves . It's been a pleasure collaborating with him on a number of different projects. So I'd like to thank Stuart personally for all of his help - he's been a great asset and a true friend.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Very nice work.

Mike


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

Great review, (as always).

I am always impressed by the excellent standard set (and maintained) by Doug and Stewart.

Looking forward with eager anticipation to the next year.


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## flabingo (Jan 9, 2008)

I have had these units for over a year and just discovered the 30 second skip. Big, big reward. During ESPYS there was a five minute commercial break. Golf is the worst for commercials


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## johnck78 (Feb 19, 2007)

Awesome job guys!


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## dharrismco (Aug 22, 2006)

Excellent article! Congrats to you both for the superb work


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## justlgi (Apr 11, 2008)

As a frequent rabble-rouser here I must say it's hard to ignore how far we've come. 

Thanks for the retrospective. I'm sure we can all look forward to much more in the not too distant future.


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## MLBurks (Dec 16, 2005)

Awesome read. Great job!


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Nice article. Somewhat nostalgic as I have had the HR20-700 almost from the first day of release and found DBStalk two years ago this coming September and got into the CE program around the time of Elvis or Santa or even before it was given a proper name (memory is a bit fuzzy). 
Thanks for the walk down memory lane.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

Nice article. Thank you.


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## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

* Good Job on this but we still have no DLBs and now MAPP's DVR Blocking and less HD may be the end for Directv*


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> Thanks guys .. Just as a side note. Stuart and I have been working together for nearly 2 years ourselves . It's been a pleasure collaborating with him on a number of different projects. So I'd like to thank Stuart personally for all of his help - he's been a great asset and a true friend.


Aw shucks. I'm just lucky to have met you, Doug. I've learned so much.


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## say-what (Dec 14, 2006)

Thanks for the annual review


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## Michael D'Angelo (Oct 21, 2006)

Great job guys as always!!!


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## MikeW (May 16, 2002)

And I remember my excitement back in '96 when I first got satellite. The biggest feature of my RCA box was creating cartoon characters for each user name....

Nice recap. It certainly demonstrates tremendous improvements over the last couple of years. A recap of this type should have also included changes in the CE program. Earl did a nice job grooming Doug, Tom and Stuart to keep the public side of the CE going without a hitch. You're missed Earl, but you left your legacy in good hands....


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## adamson (Nov 9, 2007)

All this ballyhoo over seriously flawed equipment is rediculous! Not one person can explain what occured in February at Directv that started causing 1) audio stutter 2) picture/playback freeze . 7 months I had enjoyed HD service via my HR20 and now its back to a R10 Directivo. Also it is amazing how these issues seem to keep popping up as it is a new problem. The problems been there for months! OOOOOHHHHH how this post ticks me to no end. Flame me all you want people I don't care because oh ya " I Have No Problems With My HR20/21" .


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## LarryFlowers (Sep 22, 2006)

Not going to let that post be the last one in here...

Thanks for the wrap up guys. Being part of the CE program has been a highlight for me, allowing one of my favorite hobbies to become even better.

Working mostly from home, I have a tv pretty much all day every day. During Network TV season, I probably record 50-60 hours of programming every week. The HD recorders have done a wonderful job.

As part of the CE program, I lived thru some high risk CE's, went thru some daily reboots for a short period of time and have occaissionally missed a recording.

But my overall experience with the DVR's has been 99% "up" time.

I have read posts by others and followed closely some of the issues they write about and I know some of them are very frustrated and I wish I could ease their pain. Let there be no doubt however, my DVR's work. Period.

I am in my 14th year with DirecTV. 14 Happy Years.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

upmichigan said:


> All this ballyhoo over seriously flawed equipment is rediculous! Not one person can explain what occured in February at Directv that started causing 1) audio stutter 2) picture/playback freeze . 7 months I had enjoyed HD service via my HR20 and now its back to a R10 Directivo. Also it is amazing how these issues seem to keep popping up as it is a new problem. The problems been there for months! OOOOOHHHHH how this post ticks me to no end. Flame me all you want people I don't care because oh ya " I Have No Problems With My HR20/21" .


Sorry you are having trouble with your HR20, but that's just not what the article was about ..


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## n3ntj (Dec 18, 2006)

Good summary guys. 

Hopefully the summary of year 3 will include "D* finally added the DLB feature after many customer requests".


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## bjamin82 (Sep 4, 2007)

Very Nice...


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

Great review and I have been glad to be along for the ride. My HR20's showed up in August of 2006. The DBSTALK team of mods and all the CEr's and users is what have made this DVR truely one of the best.


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## doo4usc (Oct 20, 2006)

I have 2 HR20-700's,how or can I use pass-through option? I've gone through my set-up menu and can't find it. I have a screen that show resolutions and a "More-Info" that times out. Any help? Thx


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm getting tired of hearing the complaints about the lack of DLB. How come nobody complains about the lack of Tivo Suggestions or all the pushed commercials?


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## FHSPSU67 (Jan 12, 2007)

Very nice, guys!


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## ub1934 (Dec 30, 2005)

bobnielsen said:


> I'm getting tired of hearing the complaints about the lack of DLB. How come nobody complains about the lack of Tivo Suggestions or all the pushed commercials?


* Ok that also s**ks*


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## Radio Enginerd (Oct 5, 2006)

Very nice article guys, well written. Here's to you :goodjob:

Can't wait for the year 3 review.

Caption: _DirecTV releases multi room viewing across their HR DVR platform!_


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Radio Enginerd said:


> Can't wait for the year 3 review.


Sounds like a Heinz moment to me ..


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## davring (Jan 13, 2007)

Wonderful recap, I had forgotten some of the growing pains, appreciate all the hard work, thanks guys.


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## carl6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Excellent review and summary. Thank you both for a great job.

Carl


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Very comprehensive report other than the lack of two things:

1. What's on the horizon?

2. What's still wrong?

Outside the confines of a carefully crafted DIRECTV marketing piece, it would be handy to include some of the key wish list items that may not be splashy, but were key to the overall experience (backlit remote, SWM). On the other side of the coin, calling this a recap (as opposed to an an ad slick) suggests that key wish list items or long-standing bugs that haven't been addressed should also get some column inches. This document is stunningly absent anything that suggests that there is still room for improvement.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Very comprehensive report other than the lack of two things:
> 
> 1. What's on the horizon?
> 
> ...


As for the horizon .. the article is focused on the past year, not the next year .. so that one is easy.

To answer your second point, not everything is about the negative. I know a lot of very happy folks (myself included) and that is the tone I wanted to convey. Glad to see you picked up on that.

If you've found your experience with an HR20 to be poor, then let's hear about it and we can have a discussion about that as well.


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## tfederov (Nov 18, 2005)

Awesome read, guys. Happy birthday, +HD DVR!


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> I know a lot of very happy folks (myself included) and that is the tone I wanted to convey. Glad to see you picked up on that.


IMO, the tone conveyed was that of a D* marketing piece, enough so that I really don't understand the point of it.

You would be doing a much greater service (especially to prospective customers) by providing an objective look, highliting whats good and whats bad.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Doug and Stuart ... Thanks for the year-end recap, great job as usual! I relived an entire year just in the time it took me to read it!


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

Thank you all for the compliments! Sorry naysayers, you won't dampen the positive spirit of this thread!!


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## bjflynn04 (Jul 27, 2004)

Great Job Doug and Stuart. That was a Great Read and I can't wait to see what the next year brings for the HD DVRs.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Sorry you are having trouble with your HR20, but that's just not what the article was about ..


I guess I've missed out on who this review was written for if not a "state of The Union".

1. Is it intended as a carefully crafted testimonial designed to convince the World how absolutely fabulous the HR2x are?

2. Is it a celebration for those who have watched them "mature" over the last year?

3. Is it intended for prospective MPEG4 upgraders or new HD subscribers to let them know what to expect?

I'm inclined to think it was targeted at #2 (but left out the part about the growing pains and false starts), but it wouldn't take any convincing to believe it was #1. For the third -- the group that might benefit most from the long term test drive review -- I believe it suffers some serious sins of omission.

Who was the intended audience?


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## raw121 (Jul 18, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Thank you all for the compliments! Sorry naysayers, you won't dampen the positive spirit of this thread!!


I was a little put off by the tone of this piece, but I really didn't think it was necessary to respond until I read this. This is supposed to be an honest and constructive discussion forum. If the moderators want to overlook the problems that still exist, and there are many, it doesn't foster that kind of environment.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> Who was the intended audience?


Anyone that cares to read it .. Is there something that you've experienced first hand that would contradict what I've written?


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

raw121 said:


> I was a little put off by the tone of this piece, but I really didn't think it was necessary to respond until I read this. This is supposed to be an honest and constructive discussion forum. If the moderators want to overlook the problems that still exist, and there are many, it doesn't foster that kind of environment.


It is an honest and constructive discussion forum. You are welcome to write an dissenting treatise and post it as a new thread. The moderators will defend your right to do so (if it doesn't break a few rules relating to language that might be inappropriate for younger readers).

This article celebrates the successes, something that is very important to do. But that doesn't mean Doug and Stuart ignore the issues--they work very hard to give everyone threads and places to post the issues so that DIRECTV can track them.

And Doug and Stuart work hard to keep the forums from becoming personal attacks, so that people feel more free and open to post on all sides of topics.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

raw121 said:


> I was a little put off by the tone of this piece, but I really didn't think it was necessary to respond until I read this. This is supposed to be an honest and constructive discussion forum. If the moderators want to overlook the problems that still exist, and there are many, it doesn't foster that kind of environment.


Thank you for your comments .. Certainly if you are having issues, then by all means discuss. Heck, we have a whole forum of "Issues" threads .. some things have been fixed, some things have not .. The tone of the article is exactly how it was intended.

Sure, sometimes things are not as rosy as one would hope and quite frankly there will always be "something better." If there wasn't, then why the heck would we be here? We'd all be enjoying our bliss. For me, part of it is the journey .. Some good, some bad .. but really, at the end of the day, I do want to remember the positives .. and that is how it was written.

The article IS about the success .. We have come a long way .. Year two was every bit the leap forward that Year one was and while there is still work to be done I am happy in how we got to where we are today. I wish everyone could feel the same way I do but, alas, that just wont' happen. Everyone's situation is different and shaped in different ways.

So, if you want to find a negatively slanted story about the HR20, you won't get it from me .. I thank everyone for taking the time to read it as there was a great deal of thought put into it .. And that is whether you come away from it in agreement or disagreement. Thank you all the same.


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## harsh (Jun 15, 2003)

Doug Brott said:


> Is there something that you've experienced first hand that would contradict what I've written?


No contradictions. A more comprehensive accounting might be useful for an "all comers" audience. It would be especially important for someone considering changing to the HR2x so they don't have to go through the same process of discovering what works differently, what are the limitations, what doesn't work, what's in the cards and what isn't in the cards. Why carefully deny them the benefits of your complete experience?

My access to an HR20 will go away in 43 days as the commitment is up on September 25th. The DIRECTV programming is going away on the anniversary date with the HR20 to follow as soon as the recovery kit arrives. Behemoth dish ad is already crafted for Craig's List. Haven't acquired the patching goo for the twelve holes yet.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

harsh said:


> No contradictions. A more comprehensive accounting might be useful for an "all comers" audience. It would be especially important for someone considering changing to the HR2x so they don't have to go through the same process of discovering what works differently, what are the limitations, what doesn't work, what's in the cards and what isn't in the cards. Why carefully deny them the benefits of your complete experience?


No contradictions? .. that's good. As for limitations? Not quite sure what you are trying to pinpoint there .. It plays HD and it records HD .. Perhaps you are referring to a feature that hasn't yet made it into the HR20.

As noted in the article, the collaboration between DIRECTV and DBSTalk.com has been astounding. I see no reason to believe that will change and I'm looking forward to the changes that become worthy of writing about for a Year Three retrospective.



harsh said:


> My access to an HR20 will go away in 43 days as the commitment is up on September 25th. The DIRECTV programming is going away on the anniversary date with the HR20 to follow as soon as the recovery kit arrives. Behemoth dish ad is already crafted for Craig's List. Haven't acquired the patching goo for the twelve holes yet.


OK .. Sounds like your decision was made before you dropped in.


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## Tinymon (Sep 21, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> It plays HD and it records HD


...Most of the time but not all of the time.:new_Eyecr

I just lost a whole days worth of recordings on my HR-21-100 to the ol GRAY SCREEN OF DEATH. Had to reboot in order to restore recording capability. When I record something with my HR20-700 I get nervous that I will see the ol GRAY SCREEN OF DEATH instead of the program I want to watch. That's no way to instill consumer confidence.

If Detroit had released a car to the general public with all these problems it would have been recalled as a lemon a loooooonnnnnnnnng time agooooooooo.


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## spidey (Sep 1, 2006)

harsh said:


> No contradictions. A more comprehensive accounting might be useful for an "all comers" audience. It would be especially important for someone considering changing to the HR2x so they don't have to go through the same process of discovering what works differently, what are the limitations, what doesn't work, what's in the cards and what isn't in the cards. Why carefully deny them the benefits of your complete experience?
> 
> My access to an HR20 will go away in 43 days as the commitment is up on September 25th. The DIRECTV programming is going away on the anniversary date with the HR20 to follow as soon as the recovery kit arrives. Behemoth dish ad is already crafted for Craig's List. Haven't acquired the patching goo for the twelve holes yet.


Sounds like you have had alot of unaddressed issues or just plain old unsatisfied with DTV. Good luck with your new choice.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> So, if you want to find a negatively slanted story about the HR20, you won't get it from me .. .


No one who has critiqued the "article" is asking for a negatively slanted story. The comments were put forth to suggest an article that is more objective and addresses the good and bad does a much greater service to the community at large, especially prospective customers.

When I look to purchase new equipment/service, I often come to sites such as this to get a feel on what I should buy. When I see a review that appears to be nothing more than a PR piece, I immediately discount whatever opinions are held within.

You appear to say that one won't get a "negatively slanted story" from you. If the article is meant to be based on your perspective only, it flat out shouldn't be a stickied thread, otherwise, I assume you would allow any negatively slanted (or heck even objective) articles the same stickied treatment?


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## BubblePuppy (Nov 3, 2006)

Did this thread really have to turn into "trash Doug's thread/first post"? :nono: 
I liked Dougs post, see my post #18.
If you want to trash this thread start a new one but leave this thread as it was intended or post in the issues thread if you have a problem with the dvrs.
Rant over.:backtotop


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

BubblePuppy said:


> Did this thread really have to turn into "trash Doug's thread/first post"? :nono:
> I liked Dougs post, see my post #18.
> If you want to trash this thread start a new one but leave this thread as it was intended or post in the issues thread if you have a problem with the dvrs.
> Rant over.:backtotop


You take issue with people critiquing the article? No one "trashed" his article.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

(moderator hat off)

Hey....

When Doug, Milominderbinder2 and I posted a "Year One" article 12 months ago, we got a lot of the same feedback. We certainly do appreciate it. It wasn't our intention, as Doug said, to ignore or deny the issues that are out there. The intention was to celebrate how far we have come and the friends we made along the way. 

Neither Doug nor I work for DIRECTV and we did not write a "DIRECTV marketing piece." We wrote our fair and honest opinion just as you all do. 

If you disagree... as Tom said, we celebrate your right to do so. 

(moderator hat on)


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## Tiger62 (Mar 18, 2008)

Thanks to the mods for deleting the political post...Completely out of place!


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## jodyguercio (Aug 16, 2007)

Good post you guys. I was really scared of leaving the HR10 for the HR20-100 that I received and from day one its been a reliable piece of HT equipment. Problems? Sure, but not bad enough to make me want to trash a well written summary of what has gone on in the last year with the hardware and software of the units. That to me is what Doug and Stuart were trying to do, sum up what went on in the last year of the units lives. Not provide us a marketing tool for directv. If that's what some get out of this I guess that's their opinion and they're entitled to it. 

Here's looking forward to year 3 and beyond.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

raott said:


> When I look to purchase new equipment/service, I often come to sites such as this to get a feel on what I should buy. When I see a review that appears to be nothing more than a PR piece, I immediately discount whatever opinions are held within.


No worries .. There is plenty of opposing views here on our site. I certainly don't expect anyone to make a purchase decision based on this one piece.



raott said:


> You appear to say that one won't get a "negatively slanted story" from you. If the article is meant to be based on your perspective only, it flat out shouldn't be a stickied thread, otherwise, I assume you would allow any negatively slanted (or heck even objective) articles the same stickied treatment?


If someone were to ask to have something stuck I (and the other mods) would certainly consider it. For some things it would be a clear "no." but for others, perhaps. If there was a well written rebuttal to the article Stuart and I have written, then absolutely.


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## Mike Bertelson (Jan 24, 2007)

Thanks to Doug and Stuart for highlighting how much has been accomplished.

Your write up celebrates the strides that have been made by hard work of all the members who posted issues/questions/problems.

It demonstrates the value of constructive feedback. I can't wait to see what the next year will bring.

Thanks for showing how far we've come and the potential for the future.

Mike


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

Doug Brott said:


> No contradictions? .. that's good. As for limitations? Not quite sure what you are trying to pinpoint there .. It plays HD and it records HD .. Perhaps you are referring to a feature that hasn't yet made it into the HR20.


This pinpoints my issue with this DVR. It does NOT play and record HD reliably. 3-4+ Blank recordings a week is ridiculous and it's been going on for MONTHS. It is no longer an issue with us, if we want to be sure something records, we make sure it is on the Tivo in the other room. Each time we hit the list button on the HR20 it is a bit of a gamble.


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## samchecker (Jan 17, 2007)

As a former E* subscriber, just want to add my two cents here. I subscribed to E* a year and a half ago because friends of mine told me horror stories about the D* HD-DVR's. Still, I was sorely tempted to go to D*, because even back then their HD selection was WAY better than E*'s. So, I went to dbstalk, read the D* and E* HD-DVR forums, concluded that D*'s DVR was indeed not ready for primetime, and signed up with E* and their VIP622. After going through no less than five replacement VIP's, one immediately after installation, and then watching D*'s HD selection continue to dominate while E*'s selection stagnated, I finally got fed up. Oh yeah, I forgot to add that, even though I live in a top-50 market, still no local HD was offered by E*, forcing me to rely on a wonky antenna.

So, at the end of my 18 month commitment (and another VIP622 that worked for exactly seven days), I gave E* its walking papers and signed up with D*. Lucky for me, this was the start of the big NFL promotion, which got me a free HR21-200, another one for $99, and the Premier package for four months for just the monthly cost of the Game Day package (which non-fan me is free to ditch after the four month promotion). The sales guy that signed me up sounded as happy as I was about this deal.

So, the installer came (a mere two days after I signed up), and let me tell you, the difference between D* and E* was like night and day. The installer was so much more professional, did his job quickly and carefully, and was even able to get that second HR21 in my bedroom without a hideous-looking cable run. His supervisor even showed up the next week to check the job (another thing that never happened with E*).

I've had a bit of a learning curve with the HR21-200, particularly before this latest software release, but I'm here to tell you that so far this DVR kicks the ass of the VIP622 in pretty much every way. Thanks to all of you who worked to bring this box from where it began to where it is now.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> As for the horizon .. the article is focused on the past year, not the next year .. so that one is easy.
> 
> To answer your second point, not everything is about the negative. I know a lot of very happy folks (myself included) and that is the tone I wanted to convey. Glad to see you picked up on that.
> 
> If you've found your experience with an HR20 to be poor, then let's hear about it and we can have a discussion about that as well.


Your recap was nice congrats to both of you gentlemen. And for the most part I can be counted as one of the happy HR20 owners (believe it or not, I do reccomend it to many of my associates). I would say my satisfaction is in the 99% area.

That said, I do tend to get totally burnt out when issues keep popping back up. And that last NR where they had to do the tune up a week or so later was totally uncool. I had to do 6-7 RBR's that week! I was a little annoyed.

I think my problem is I expect perfection now and I guess the reality is that is a "pie in the sky" expectation. I am also totally baffled and stupified at the lack of getting media share working like other media clients in the market. I would obviously prefer to use my HR20 instead on my PS3 as the HR20 is already on!


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

bradfjoh said:


> This pinpoints my issue with this DVR. It does NOT play and record HD reliably. 3-4+ Blank recordings a week is ridiculous and it's been going on for MONTHS. It is no longer an issue with us, if we want to be sure something records, we make sure it is on the Tivo in the other room. Each time we hit the list button on the HR20 it is a bit of a gamble.


I am sorry for the HR20 does not do this as a routine thing. You have some other issue that we can probably help sort out. Try starting another thread and explain exactly what is going on along with diagnostic things like your various signal strengths on the different satillites.


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## heisman (Feb 11, 2007)

Are the authors seriously saying that what they wrote is not a D* marketing piece? It's very well written and they should be proud of their accomplishments. It can't be easy writing such a well written piece on such a maligned piece of equipment. Kudos gentlemen.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

heisman said:


> Are the authors seriously saying that what they wrote is not a D* marketing piece? It's very well written and they should be proud of their accomplishments. It can't be easy writing such a well written piece on such a maligned piece of equipment. Kudos gentlemen.


Malignancy is certainly in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? For those with problems, you are certainly entitled to your opinions about the receiver, just as those without problems may have a view 180° different from yours.

I see a lot of strife about what is missing from the article, so I'd just like to ask who goes to an anniversary party, and after the toast to the happy couple complains that the toast was lacking because it didn't mention all the problems the couple may have had over the course of the year?

Consider this write up as an anniversary celebration. Celebrate the good and look ahead. There are other places to dwell on the past, so why not accept the write-up and thread for what it is: a celebration of the *accomplishments* in the DVR Plus family?


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

heisman said:


> Are the authors seriously saying that what they wrote is not a D* marketing piece? It's very well written and they should be proud of their accomplishments. It can't be easy writing such a well written piece on such a maligned piece of equipment. Kudos gentlemen.


It is my pleasure to confound you  Rest assured, we do not work for DIRECTV as marketers, and this piece was not written at the request of the Marketing department. However, having met some excellent people in that department, I salute them and congratulate them as well.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Malignancy is certainly in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? For those with problems, you are certainly entitled to your opinions about the receiver, just as those without problems may have a view 180° different from yours.
> 
> I see a lot of strife about what is missing from the article, so I'd just like to ask who goes to an anniversary party, and after the toast to the happy couple complains that the toast was lacking because it didn't mention all the problems the couple may have had over the course of the year?
> 
> Consider this write up as an anniversary celebration. Celebrate the good and look ahead. There are other places to dwell on the past, so why not accept the write-up and thread for what it is: a celebration of the *accomplishments* in the DVR Plus family?


_Very_ well said Drew!


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## heisman (Feb 11, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> It is my pleasure to confound you  Rest assured, we do not work for DIRECTV as marketers, and this piece was not written at the request of the Marketing department. However, having met some excellent people in that department, I salute them and congratulate them as well.


It was not a tongue in cheek statement Stuart. It is very well written. I'm sure you had to know that it would be met with some skepticism based on the subject. Once again, salud!


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## heisman (Feb 11, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> Malignancy is certainly in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? For those with problems, you are certainly entitled to your opinions about the receiver, just as those without problems may have a view 180° different from yours.
> 
> I see a lot of strife about what is missing from the article, so I'd just like to ask who goes to an anniversary party, and after the toast to the happy couple complains that the toast was lacking because it didn't mention all the problems the couple may have had over the course of the year?
> 
> Consider this write up as an anniversary celebration. Celebrate the good and look ahead. There are other places to dwell on the past, so why not accept the write-up and thread for what it is: a celebration of the *accomplishments* in the DVR Plus family?





AirRocker said:


> _Very_ well said Drew!


With all due respect, comparing a couple's anniversary to a product review is ridiculous. If you want a fair comparison, imagine the tone at a late 80's Chrysler Lebaron anniversary party. And before you start splitting hairs, I don't think the HR-20 is a piece of junk like the Lebaron, I just think it doesn't quite live up to the rest of the company's technology pushing business model. It's a very average DVR. I expect more than average from D*.


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## Greg Alsobrook (Apr 2, 2007)

heisman said:


> With all due respect, comparing a couple's anniversary to a product review is ridiculous. If you want a fair comparison, imagine the tone at a late 80's Chrysler Lebaron anniversary party. And before you start splitting hairs, I don't think the HR-20 is a piece of junk like the Lebaron, I just think it doesn't quite live up to the rest of the company's technology pushing business model. It's a very average DVR. I expect more than average from D*.


I see your point. It was a loose analogy and I think we all knew what he meant. Either way, as Drew stated, this is a celebration of the accomplishments, not a pros vs. cons review...


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

heisman said:


> I just think it doesn't quite live up to the rest of the company's technology pushing business model. It's a very average DVR. I expect more than average from D*.


I respectfully disagree.

Apparently you have not been exposed to all that many HD DVRs.....or you would find that the HR21 series in particular is in the upper 10% of what's out there right now, both in terms of functionality, as well as connectivity. I have seen 14 different units made by 6 different manufacturers, used by 5 different TV content provider services.

Average....nope...definitely not in that middel area....if you get the chance to see some of the doggie doo that AT&T, Time Warner, and Comcast are pushing out to customers today.... Argh......:eek2: :eek2:

As AirRocker and Drew both mentioned...the piece is a review of what has happened, not a comparative debate.


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## Draconis (Mar 16, 2007)

Stuart Sweet said:


> Thank you all for the compliments! Sorry naysayers, you won't dampen the positive spirit of this thread!!


[Mod Edit: unnecessary comments]

-----

I am quite pleased that the software continues to get better and with the new programming/features that are getting implemented. Part of the fun is guessing where all this is going.

Granted, there have been glitches in the software but that is just part of life itself. Nothing is perfect, never has been and never will be.

In the end I guess it comes down to if you are a glass half-full vs. glass half-empty kind of person. I perfer to look on the positive side of things.


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## Agrajag (Jun 22, 2004)

Doug Brott said:


> [*]A groundbreaking *original format* option was added, allowing the purest possible viewing experience for the user by sending picture and sound directly to the television and AV receiver with no postprocessing. DIRECTV's HD DVR is the only device of its kind to offer this option.


I'm not so sure that statement is very accurate and suspect it's a bit misleading.

I've been involved in the fight for this feature from the very start as I still have a CRT-based RPTV (Pioneer Elite) that has a wonderful picture and can handle just about any resolution.

This feature concept didn't just materialize out of my head (I'd love to take credit for it but can't). It came from my Zenith 520 HD receiver that I had for a few years. It had this feature and it worked beautifully.

I've also seen this same feature on a few cable-based set top boxes and have set those up for some Comcast customers with similar equipment.

My main logjam came when I "upgraded" to the HD-TiVo and found it lacking this feature. Furthermore, posts about it met major confusion and people didn't even understand what I was getting at and suggested no such feature existed anywhere ever.

I would argue that the statement is basically accurate if you want to include all sorts of limiting factors. It MAY be the only HD DVR that has this feature. It may be that it's just the only satellite HD DVR with this feature. I can't recall if the Comcast boxes I worked on a while back were DVR's or not. I believe they were.

I just wanted to comment on this before it became part of the record that DirecTV somehow provided something that had never been done before. They've brought a slew of unique features to the industry. This just isn't, in my view, one of them and there's nothing wrong with that.

................

Note, I posted this based on my reaction to the first post. I hadn't read the rest of it when I posted this and didn't realize some here found the post to be less-than-objective. It wasn't my intention to stir the pot. I enjoyed all the items in it until I found the one above and the tone in which it was put forth. I don't believe something can be groundbreaking that had been done several times before years prior to it showing up here. Simple as that.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Agrajag said:


> I would argue that the statement is basically accurate if you want to include all sorts of limiting factors. It MAY be the only HD DVR that has this feature. It may be that it's just the only satellite HD DVR with this feature. I can't recall if the Comcast boxes I worked on a while back were DVR's or not. I believe they were.
> 
> I just wanted to comment on this before it became part of the record that DirecTV somehow provided something that had never been done before. They've brought a slew of unique features to the industry. This just isn't, in my view, one of them and there's nothing wrong with that.


Thank you for pointing that out .. I'll correct the wording there so it is more accurate.


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## heisman (Feb 11, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently you have not been exposed to all that many HD DVRs.....or you would find that the HR21 series in particular is in the upper 10% of what's out there right now, both in terms of functionality, as well as connectivity. I have seen 14 different units made by 6 different manufacturers, used by 5 different TV content provider services.


Just to take the subjectivity out of it for you, I have used 4 different HD DVR's including this one. It rates ahead of Comcast's Motorola unit by leaps and bounds, but by that same measure, it falls quite a bit short of E*'s VIP 722, and my Tivo HD. I never missed a recording with either and never have to reboot either. I have to reboot my HR-20 about once a week. That's once a week too many to be considered average or above in my book. All experiences are different, but from the posts I've read at avs, satguys, and here, my experiences are experienced by many if you will.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

heisman said:


> Just to take the subjectivity out of it for you, I have used 4 different HD DVR's including this one. It rates ahead of Comcast's Motorola unit by leaps and bounds, but by that same measure, it falls quite a bit short of E*'s VIP 722, and my Tivo HD. I never missed a recording with either and never have to reboot either. I have to reboot my HR-20 about once a week. That's once a week too many to be considered average or above in my book. All experiences are different, but from the posts I've read at avs, satguys, and here, my experiences are experienced by many if you will.


Just to put this to bed....I have had my 3 HD DVRs for years without missing a single scheduled recording or playback...not one...so much for that issue. Solid as a rock.

So lets focus on the purpose of the well-written history lesson, and not turn it into a comparative debate. Thanks.


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## justlgi (Apr 11, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Solid as a rock.


:hurah: !rolling

Can I borrow your recording of Hopkins from 7/17? Mine seems to be blank. :hair:


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

justlgi said:


> :hurah: !rolling
> 
> Can I borrow your recording of Hopkins from 7/17? Mine seems to be blank. :hair:


Sure...mine recorded just fine. 

Again....

:backtotop


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## heisman (Feb 11, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ...the piece is a review of what has happened, not a comparative debate.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> So lets focus on the purpose of the well-written history lesson, and not turn it into a comparative debate. Thanks.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> :backtotop


I've got an idea.... :lol:


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So lets focus on the purpose of the well-written history lesson...


OK,

The piece was written:

1) To give a solely positive review of the events of the last year without mentioning any ongoing issues.

2) To be a Rah-Rah speech in an effort to pump up the minions and quell the sense of frustration that someone thinks exists.

3) To show DirecTV that they can continue to trust people here to act as de facto Marketing for them and therefore continue the CE program and other perks.

4) As an effort in customer retention considering the first adopter 2-year commitments are expiring.

I also look forward to year three of the HR-2x series just to see what level of spin doctoring can be created. It's quite entertaining.


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## bradfjoh (Jul 18, 2007)

gcisko said:


> I am sorry for the HR20 does not do this as a routine thing. You have some other issue that we can probably help sort out. Try starting another thread and explain exactly what is going on along with diagnostic things like your various signal strengths on the different satillites.


I think we'd welcome all assistance anyone can provide. There is a sticky thread that started at the end of April that is dedicated to blank/grey recordings that everyone has documented their situation. We've also submitted diagnostic reports via the link that is at the top of that topic.


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## Sat4me (May 13, 2006)

A very good job of putting lipstick on a pig.


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## dlt4 (Oct 4, 2006)

Thanks for the summary. As somebody who just joined the HD club last October, I was glad to read about how things have progressed. :goodjob:


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Sat4me said:


> A very good job of putting lipstick on a pig.


So what about the HR2x do you think is a pig?


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## djanis3 (Aug 15, 2006)

Was that a review or a PR piece? It makes the DVR sound like the second coming of the artificial heart. I've never seen a review without a single negative (or even neutral) word that didn't involve Heath Ledger.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

bradfjoh said:


> I think we'd welcome all assistance anyone can provide. There is a sticky thread that started at the end of April that is dedicated to blank/grey recordings that everyone has documented their situation. We've also submitted diagnostic reports via the link that is at the top of that topic.


OK I will check it out. Since I was not having those problems I did not see that thread. Also do you still have a HR20? If so I was curious why given your sig line.


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## gcisko (Sep 27, 2006)

Doug Brott said:


> So what about the HR2x do you think is a pig?


Well I just got done reading that sticky thread about blank recordings. The last report was yesterday. If people are having that particular issue and it is confirmed to not be their hardware setup (which I did not see in the thread anywhere), then that would qualify. You got anything on blank recordings? I haven't had t hat problem hence my 99% satisfaction. But if I did... I would be looking for lipstick as well.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

Dr. Booda said:


> OK,
> 
> The piece was written:
> 
> 1) To give a solely positive review of the events of the last year


Correct! It's a celebration of the positive events of the past year.


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## Drew2k (Aug 16, 2006)

djanis3 said:


> Was that a review or a PR piece? It makes the DVR sound like the second coming of the artificial heart. I've never seen a review without a single negative (or even neutral) word that didn't involve Heath Ledger.


It's neither a review or a PR piece. It's a reflection on the past year as stated in the first paragraph, and as covered in the last paragraphs, the authors are part of the enthusiast community at DBSTalk. With those two pieces of the article serving as bookends, I completely accept the piece as it is written and as it was intended, to be a positive reflection of the accomplishments of the past year.


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## Kevin872 (Aug 25, 2007)

Drew2k said:


> It's neither a review or a PR piece. It's a reflection on the past year as stated in the first paragraph, and as covered in the last paragraphs, the authors are part of the enthusiast community at DBSTalk. With those two pieces of the article serving as bookends, I completely accept the piece as it is written and as it was intended, to be a positive reflection of the accomplishments of the past year.


I agree completely. I don't know if the competitors offer anything like the DirecTV/DBSTalk CE program, but I think it's great to let the customers get involved in making a better product. In that respect, I think they've accomplished a lot.

As for some of the posters with problems.... I'm no expert but I suspect that most problems are due to shoddy installations. I've been with DirecTV for years and have had my HR20-700 for around 8 months and aside from minor glitches, I've been very happy. And I too can say that I have NEVER missed a recording or experienced the grey screen. I recommended DirecTV to my dad who was disgusted with cable and for the first several months with DTV he complained about various problems. I told him they weren't normal and to ask for someone to come out and look at his installation. What do you know.... it was found to be installed improperly in the first place and now things are humming along!  One big difference is the original install was done by a contract installer. They sent an actual DirecTV guy out to fix it and my dad said he was first-rate all the way. :biggthump


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

Drew2k said:


> It's a celebration of the positive events of the past year.


Yes. 

For some reason...some foks just don't get that.


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## Dr. Booda (Jun 18, 2007)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yes.
> 
> For some reason...some foks just don't get that.


It's because we're smarter than everyone else.:hurah:


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yes.
> 
> For some reason...some foks just don't get that.


Actually, what I don't get, is why some folks don't have an issue with a completely one sided, marketing piece (pretend it's not, but that is precisely what it reads like - as evidenced by paragraph headings such as "simply the best"), being stickied on a website by mods.

Again, it comes down to a perception of objectivity. This site is suppose to be part of the avsforum of websites. I have never seen one sided "reviews" like the one posted here, posted on avsforum.

I'll repeat it once again, but suspect it will fall on deaf ears, IMO the site does a much better service to the community at large (and perspective customers) by objective information. The appearance that this site is in bed with D* does the site, as a whole, a disservice and destroys credibililty.

If I had read a "year in review" like the one posted when I first came to this website, I probably wouldn't have returned because I would not have been able to trust the information being given.


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## btmoore (Aug 28, 2006)

raott has it right "it comes down to a perception of objectivity".

This unofficial marketing (perhaps not) written, posted and stickied by the administrators is IMO a great example of what has gone wrong here. Objectivity is no longer respected or valued, over the past 2 years it went from a place with enthusiasm over a new HD DVR, to a place where we had some what of a common voice about the major issues with the HR2x line to place that is more of a D* cult than anything else. It is like this forum has become an equivalent to a 527 organization for D*, this write up couldn't be more of a marketing piece if it was published on DirecTV letterhead and was signed by their VP of Marketing. It makes me want to shower. It is all sort of sad, too bad the child is not more like the parent, AVS forum is great for the most part, this place has just become a disappointment. I am likely violating some kind of rule for not touting the virtues of D* and expressing my disappointment of what has become of this site, but IMO my comments are directly associated to the posting of this marketing dribble by the site administrators. So if I am banned, banished, eliminated, or just put down by the man, you all who kept it real, and you know who you are ... Peace Out!


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## Tom Robertson (Nov 15, 2005)

btmoore,

We very much allow differing views with only small caveats of politeness required.

Yes, there are people who are still enthusiastic for their DVRs, just like you were two years ago, simply because they have not experienced the same things you have. Does that make them a DIRECTV Cult? I should hope not.

Does the HR2x family have some issues still? Yupper. We create issues threads just for the purpose of tracking and attempting to solve them. That is most definitely not sweeping things under any rug, they are stickied and referred to often.

Many people post problems. Many DBStalk'ers then post to solve the problems. That is the great, wonderful strength of DBStalk.

We even let people rant, vent, blow up once in awhile. Everyone deserves an opportunity to blow off their steam as needed.

One thing we tend to discourage is repeated mindless bashing of anyone, anything, any company. That is not very interesting, not very helpful, nor present an opportunity to help someone with problems. That falls under the spamming rules we have. (In theory, if someone did nothing but repeatedly mindlessly praised a person, thing, or company, we'd try to work on that too. I don't see that very often on any forum, tho.) 

Has the HR2x family grown in many constructive and positive ways in this last year? I think so. New and cool features, many more HD channels, and my stability is slightly higher, from already high levels--even tho I participate in EVERY CE and have now 9 DVRs (or is it ten?) to compare. 

That said, I do understand not everyone is enjoying my level of experience with the HR2x family. I've worked hard to foster an environment were we can help people with their problem, be they infrastructure, a poor unit, or a software problem that might affect more people. 

In the past, you've done an excellent job trying to help. Thanks.

Cheers,
Tom


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

btmoore said:


> So if I am banned, banished, eliminated, or just put down by the man, you all who kept it real, and you know who you are ... Peace Out!


Normally, this would be appropriate for PM, but since we're laying all the cards out here, I will as well ..

btmoore, there is nothing in your post above that warrants banishment. Certainly you disagree with the methodology which is your right. It's OK to disagree and it's OK to make your voice heard.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

Don't know how I missed this thread.

Great write up guys. 

Since most "complainers" seem to be more vocal than those that are satisfied, it's nice to read something occasionally that shows the positive side of things.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

btmoore said:


> raott has it right "it comes down to a perception of objectivity".
> 
> This unofficial marketing (perhaps not) written, posted and stickied by the administrators is IMO a great example of what has gone wrong here. Objectivity is no longer respected or valued, over the past 2 years it went from a place with enthusiasm over a new HD DVR, to a place where we had some what of a common voice about the major issues with the HR2x line to place that is more of a D* cult than anything else.


Mr. Moore,

You and I were both here back when the HR20-700 came out. We didn't agree on everything back then, and we don't agree about everything now. But I've always found you to be a reasonable person. I appreciate the opinion you voiced in this thread.

Your moderator team work hard to uphold the standards of this site. I was perusing the threads from September, 2006 just yesterday and I found a lot of people accusing the moderators of the day (Earl, Clint, and Donnie) of one-sidedness or even out-and-out shilling. A lot of people expecially targeted Earl as "the devil" or at the least, a DIRECTV lackey, neither of which he is. Although he is now a DIRECTV employee, he has always been and will always be his own man.

If I, as co-author of this article, overstepped my bounds by wishing to share it with the group of friends I've gained here, I apologize. As far as the "sticky" treatment, again you have my deepest apologies if I overstepped my bounds, but I assure you it was done with no intention to promote an "official" point of view or imply that dissent was unwelcome.

As my friend Doug has said, you've said nothing ban-worthy in your posts. In the future I shall try even harder to keep DBSTalk.com a place where all opinions are respected, provided they are respectful.

Yours,

Stuart Sweet


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## grizzly (Aug 27, 2005)

btmoore said:


> raott has it right "it comes down to a perception of objectivity".
> 
> This unofficial marketing (perhaps not) written, posted and stickied by the administrators is IMO a great example of what has gone wrong here. Objectivity is no longer respected or valued, over the past 2 years it went from a place with enthusiasm over a new HD DVR, to a place where we had some what of a common voice about the major issues with the HR2x line to place that is more of a D* cult than anything else. It is like this forum has become an equivalent to a 527 organization for D*, this write up couldn't be more of a marketing piece if it was published on DirecTV letterhead and was signed by their VP of Marketing. It makes me want to shower. It is all sort of sad, too bad the child is not more like the parent, AVS forum is great for the most part, this place has just become a disappointment. I am likely violating some kind of rule for not touting the virtues of D* and expressing my disappointment of what has become of this site, but IMO my comments are directly associated to the posting of this marketing dribble by the site administrators. So if I am banned, banished, eliminated, or just put down by the man, you all who kept it real, and you know who you are ... Peace Out!


Don't forget to point out all the awards the DVR has won too..just like that nice retention CSR told me...

Kevin


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> Since most "complainers" seem to be more vocal than those that are satisfied, it's nice to read something occasionally that shows the positive side of things.


You must be reading a different forum than I am, because, whenever there is ever a negative post about D* (no matter how legitimate the gripe is), the same dozen guys are sure to jump in and pounce all over the issue and the poster.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

You don't think people with complaints/problems are more apt to post about their experience than people that are satisfied? In any forum?

It's just as true here as it is everywhere else.


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## Rob-NovA (Jan 10, 2008)

raott said:


> You must be reading a different forum than I am, because, whenever there is ever a negative post about D* (no matter how legitimate the gripe is), the same dozen guys are sure to jump in and pounce all over the issue and the poster.


raott, you're absolutely right, the same dozen folks do tend to "jump in and pounce all over the issue" because they're trying to help the poster figure out what the problem is and perhaps solve the problem. I don't see any wholesale quashing of negative opinion going on, in fact, quite the opposite. The only thing going on is a concerted effort to make sure posters aren't being negative for negativity's sake, and to make sure enough detail is gathered to help troubleshoot the issue.

This is BY FAR one of the most helpful internet forum communities I have ever come across, and I can trace that back to the wild days of USENET, before the eternal September...


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> You don't think people with complaints/problems are more apt to post about their experience than people that are satisfied? In any forum?
> 
> It's just as true here as it is everywhere else.


I don't disagree with that at all. However, I thought you were spoeaking of vocal posters being negative.

In this forum, the vocal posters are heavily slanted pro-D* and if you read any single negative thread (again, no matter how legit the grip is) you will find the same dozen pro-D* posters (posters who truely seem to have agendas) jumping in the thread, refuting what the negative poster says.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Rob-NovA said:


> raott, you're absolutely right, the same dozen folks do tend to "jump in and pounce all over the issue" because they're trying to help the poster figure out what the problem is and perhaps solve the problem.


Those aren't the dozen posters I'm talking about.

The posters I'm not talking about are more concerned about helping D*'s image rather than a person with problems.


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## Stuart Sweet (Jun 19, 2006)

One more note to those who disagree with Doug's and my article...

This thread has been unstuck since July 28th. It is not the positive posters who are keeping it on page one, it is the complainers. If you disagree with our story, I invite you to ignore it and watch it disappear


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## Rob-NovA (Jan 10, 2008)

raott said:


> Those aren't the dozen posters I'm talking about.
> 
> The posters I'm not talking about are more concerned about helping D*'s image rather than a person with problems.


My apologies for misunderstanding. raott.


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

raott said:


> In this forum, the vocal posters are heavily slanted pro-D* and if you read any single negative thread (again, no matter how legit the grip is) you will find the same dozen pro-D* posters (posters who truely seem to have agendas) jumping in the thread, refuting what the negative poster says.


I think you'll also find that even if a thread is positive (or has nothing to do with a particular issue), negative posters will jump in and start talking about problems that are totally unrelated to the OP.

And I don't think any of the posters you're referring to refute what people say. They might say that they themselves don't have the problem, but that's hardly refuting.


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## dcmead (Jun 26, 2007)

I just picked up on this post. I keep meaning to investigate DBSTalk more, but I'm simply a workaholic and have very little free time to reflect on things.

This is one of those things I will reflect on.

I've been a DirecTV customer since 1996. That was after having PrimeStar for 4 months and being treated like a second class citizen and a criminal. I bought a years worth of programming from DirecTV and received the equipment free. I had it installed in less than a day and have been satisfied ever since. 

Does that make me a DirecTV fan who will support everything they put out, install, fix or replace? Well I guess it does!!! That is why I still have DirecTV after all these years. Because they DO all of those things!

The fact that DirecTV has never treated me like the cable company and has LISTENED to me makes me a fan. 

That is also why I find DBSTalk to be the most informative, fair, open and honest source for information on keeping up with the amazing technology that we all have in our homes. The posters are honest and helpful. The support from this forum that I receive is priceless. 

In the past, electronics were expected to last 15 years. Things aren't that way now. We live in an age of disposable electronics and digital everything. I can't honestly believe that anyone would slap this forum for supporting a product (and I mean ANY product by any manufacturer) that this forum offers support for. 

Do any of you think that you can get any better support for your computer, cell phone or car that is better than this forum? At no cost? At any time of the day or night? With a searchable archive?

When my 36" tube TV died 14 months ago everyone said, "Cool - you're getting a flat panel!" And so I did. A month after that I upgraded my account to HD service and received an HR20-200. The installers were very professional and the picture was outstanding on my new Philips 32" HD LCD TV. It was better than the wonderful feeling of going from dial up to DSL! 

I had no problems for about 6 months and then I had a problem with the tuners. DirecTV came out, retuned my dish and replaced the HR20-200 with an HR 21-700. Just recently they had to replace it again.

One would think this would make me unhappy. Not at all. Okay, so I was a little upset with losing some stuff on the hard drive and no one could watch the "Big Game" on Thanksgiving. Then I had a dish alignment problem towards the end of the year. They sent a guy out on New Years Day to fix my dish (HP, Dell, Apple, etc. don't do holidays!). And I had some problems when I had the dish relocated (and paid for) at the end of June. Yup, they sent a Case Management guy out to troubleshoot that issue and relocate the dish again, on July 4th, at NO cost.

Stuart and Doug's article on DirecTV's accomplishments of their HR20's and HR21's is precisely that. It's an excellent look at where they've come in a very short two year time span. I can't wait for the next year either.

So, slow down, remember how things were in the past and look at things where they are now. We're very fortunate to have DBSTalk as a support system, moderated by people who don't receive a paycheck for offering it and even let you slap them around publicly. 

You can't ask for anything better and you can't ask for better Mods than Stuart, Doug and the other people who know who they are.

David Mead


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> And I don't think any of the posters you're referring to refute what people say. They might say that they themselves don't have the problem, but that's hardly refuting.


Again, I don't think we are reading the same forum - because that is absolutely not what goes on.

There are alot of folks here who are pro-D* but provide alot of help. Then there a good handful that are much too pro-D* (ie will never acknowledge faults and jump in at every negative post), add zero value, and appear to have an agenda - the second group is the one I'm referring to as being the most "vocal".


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## spartanstew (Nov 16, 2005)

raott said:


> Again, I don't think we are reading the same forum -


Maybe we're not, as I certainly wouldn't continue to visit a forum like the one you describe.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

spartanstew said:


> Maybe we're not, as I certainly wouldn't continue to visit a forum like the one you describe.


I'm not the only one who has observed and commented on that. It's enough a mod has actually acknowledged there is a perception that those that don't tow the D* company line or wave the D* flag 24/7 get beat on.

9 times out of 10, perception is reality.


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## eweiner1 (Dec 17, 2006)

raott said:


> I'm not the only one who has observed and commented on that. It's enough a mod has actually acknowledged there is a perception that those that don't tow the D* company line or wave the D* flag 24/7 get beat on.
> 
> 9 times out of 10, perception is reality.


My apologies for the lateness of this reply relative to this date of the last post on this thread. I would like to post my take on the $D hi-def dvr's. Putting the "glowing" endorsement of the product by the moderators aside, there are issues that might have been commented on previously that I am not aware of, or have been talked about in other postings. The last two years have been one of fustration on my part in dealing with $D hi-def dvr product offerings. My opinion has not changed that the hi-def drv product line was rushed to market and was in no way ready for "prime-time." I'm sure that a lot of us out there have resented being "beta testers" for DirecTv. I know that I have. True, the product line has gone through significant improvements, but was it necessary for Directv to initially push through a product that had significant defects and then take two years to finally get it to the point where most of us can be happy with the product? As I said previously, it is my opinion that the hi-def dvr's were brought to market before they should have been.

Additionally, the training that $D customer service reps have received was and (in my opinion) is still is lacking. It seems that the stock answer for most hi-def dvr problems is for customers to be prompted to (a) hit the red reset button or (b) reset everything and restore the device back to default conditions.

I still lose recordings, the recorder can take many seconds to respond, and while the software has been improved, there are still more than a few bumps in the road before this customer will be satisfied. If $D had decided to play nice with Tivo, then IMHO we would have had a stable hi-def dvr platform a lot sooner!


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