# What happens if I put a 1TB SSD in my HR44-700?



## Rich

We all seem to be suffering with slowness on our HRs. I know putting a brand new HDD in just about any HR will bring it back to quick and peppy, performance-wise. I can only assume that sticking a Samsung 1TB SSD (it is a SATA drive) in my 44 will speed it up substantially but will that performance stay that way or will I see the same happen that I've seen so many times when I replace an HDD in any of my HRs. My 44 is getting annoying just as the rest of my HRs have. Nothing helps and sticking new HDDs in is expensive and just a quick, short fix.

Here's a link to an SSD that I think will work: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Inch...pID=41qR7C253KL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

What I don't know is will a SATA III drive work in a 44 or a 24? From what I read this morning on one of my news feeds the connections are the same. As you can see the price is less than ~ $200 and I will give it a try if I can get some help on this. Might be a decent way to fix the slowness...or not.

Rich


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## MysteryMan

Rich, I've had my HR54-200 for three years. It has it's original hard drive that's 72% free and tons of software installed yet I can honestly say it's roughly 98% as fast as it was the day I got it.


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## WestDC

Rich said:


> We all seem to be suffering with slowness on our HRs. I know putting a brand new HDD in just about any HR will bring it back to quick and peppy, performance-wise. I can only assume that sticking a Samsung 1TB SSD (it is a SATA drive) in my 44 will speed it up substantially but will that performance stay that way or will I see the same happen that I've seen so many times when I replace an HDD in any of my HRs. My 44 is getting annoying just as the rest of my HRs have. Nothing helps and sticking new HDDs in is expensive and just a quick, short fix.
> 
> Here's a link to an SSD that I think will work: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Inch...pID=41qR7C253KL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
> 
> What I don't know is will a SATA III drive work in a 44 or a 24? From what I read this morning on one of my news feeds the connections are the same. As you can see the price is less than ~ $200 and I will give it a try if I can get some help on this. Might be a decent way to fix the slowness...or not.
> 
> Rich


I agree with M- Man I see no slowest


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## Rich

MysteryMan said:


> Rich, I've had my HR54-200 for three years. It has it's original hard drive that's 72% free and tons of software installed yet I can honestly say it's roughly 98% as fast as it was the day I got it.


Don't have any idea how long I've had the 44 but it is as slow as a 24 in some regards. It has a 3TB drive in it that I installed the day I got it. It used to be very responsive to remote commands but they take so long these days. I've emptied the HDD, I've done everything I can think of and nothing speeds it up. I'd be happy as all get-out if someone could tell me how to get it back to what it was. I'm pretty sure sticking a brand new HDD in it would do the trick and then I'd be back to complaining about it in a few weeks. Only other thing I can think of is an SSD. I'm willing to give it a shot if someone can tell me if SATA III SSDs will work.

Rich


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## Rich

WestDC said:


> I agree with M- Man I see no slowest


Both of you are comparing your 54s to my 44. Is the 54 a better DVR?

Rich


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## MysteryMan

Rich said:


> Both of you are comparing your 54s to my 44. Is the 54 a better DVR?
> 
> Rich


My HR44-200 was a rock solid performer. Never bogged down, very reliable. I put it in the same category as my HR54-200 as far as performance. Now my HR34-700, that's a different story. That unit should never have left the drawing board. As for the HS17, it's pretty reliable but I don't care for it's client only format. That's why I use my HR54-200.


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## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> We all seem to be suffering with slowness on our HRs. I know putting a brand new HDD in just about any HR will bring it back to quick and peppy, performance-wise. I can only assume that sticking a Samsung 1TB SSD (it is a SATA drive) in my 44 will speed it up substantially but will that performance stay that way or will I see the same happen that I've seen so many times when I replace an HDD in any of my HRs. My 44 is getting annoying just as the rest of my HRs have. Nothing helps and sticking new HDDs in is expensive and just a quick, short fix.
> 
> Here's a link to an SSD that I think will work: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Inch...pID=41qR7C253KL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
> 
> What I don't know is will a SATA III drive work in a 44 or a 24? From what I read this morning on one of my news feeds the connections are the same. As you can see the price is less than ~ $200 and I will give it a try if I can get some help on this. Might be a decent way to fix the slowness...or not.
> 
> Rich


If you still have a working dock, maybe try the SSD in that _first_ before going through all the labor of putting it inside.

(Frankly, I'd be more interested whether the performance of the HR*2*x would be improved by a SSD.)

Hopefully you might have another use for the drive if there's no significant performance improvement.

At any rate, I'm certainly not going to be the one to discourage you from being the "first one on the block" to try it in a 44. (So far, I've only seen posts by someone using one in a TiVo.)


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## inkahauts

Rich said:


> Both of you are comparing your 54s to my 44. Is the 54 a better DVR?
> 
> Rich


Sadly rich, I'll bet it's your drive. You have that kind of luck.. i think higher spin drives and larger caches do make a difference in these dvrs... I have a 4tb red drive in my 44 and it's anywhere from 20% to 0% free and it's been the same speed since day one.

I'd be curios about your experience with a SSD drive in yours. I have pondered doing that to mine as well, just for the heck of it...l


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## NR4P

I have a 2TB purple old fashioned spinning HDD in my HR44. Its very fast. I have noticed over the years that if I have any IP conflicts or issues on my home network, the HR44 suffers. If it is really slow, such as it takes many seconds to bring up the Guide or List, I would look at that. 

Easy way to check for IP issues is disconnect it from home network. Reboot and see it works


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## slice1900

Rich said:


> I'm willing to give it a shot if someone can tell me if SATA III SSDs will work.
> 
> Rich


SATA is backwards compatible, so if the Genie uses SATA drives your SATA III SSD will work. Worth a shot to see if it helps.

Question though - if you say your Genie used to be faster, I assume you've tried removing and wiping the drive (I'd use a real drive wipe program, not just a 'format') If that didn't help, it must be the software that's slowed it down, it would be interesting to see how much it would benefit from an SSD.


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## jimmie57

Rich said:


> We all seem to be suffering with slowness on our HRs. I know putting a brand new HDD in just about any HR will bring it back to quick and peppy, performance-wise. I can only assume that sticking a Samsung 1TB SSD (it is a SATA drive) in my 44 will speed it up substantially but will that performance stay that way or will I see the same happen that I've seen so many times when I replace an HDD in any of my HRs. My 44 is getting annoying just as the rest of my HRs have. Nothing helps and sticking new HDDs in is expensive and just a quick, short fix.
> 
> Here's a link to an SSD that I think will work: https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Inch...pID=41qR7C253KL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
> 
> What I don't know is will a SATA III drive work in a 44 or a 24? From what I read this morning on one of my news feeds the connections are the same. As you can see the price is less than ~ $200 and I will give it a try if I can get some help on this. Might be a decent way to fix the slowness...or not.
> 
> Rich


I used to buy all my memory chips from Crucial Technology.
I went to their site and watched some videos. None talked about using SSD in a DVR.
Then I went to their Forum and found a thread on using an SSD in / attached to a DirecTV DVR.
Link:
Using an SSD and eSATA for DVR expansion drive? - Crucial Community


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## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> If you still have a working dock, maybe try the SSD in that _first_ before going through all the labor of putting it inside.
> 
> (Frankly, I'd be more interested whether the performance of the HR*2*x would be improved by a SSD.)
> 
> Hopefully you might have another use for the drive if there's no significant performance improvement.
> 
> At any rate, I'm certainly not going to be the one to discourage you from being the "first one on the block" to try it in a 44. (So far, I've only seen posts by someone using one in a TiVo.)


I use three HRs, two 24s and the 44. If the SSD does work better in the 44 I'd put SSDs in the 24s too. Not big ones, I don't need capacity anymore.

I gave this a lot of thought last night and considered putting a dock on the 44 but I really want to see what happens with an SSD internally. I can usually put an HDD in a box in less than half an hour. Might take a bit more time, I know the SSD won't fit into the sled but I'll mount it somehow.

I just opened this thread and haven't had time to go thru it but I'm hoping someone will tell me a SATA III drive will work with the 44.

Rich


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## doctor j

It appears that you are going to have to try it and tell US

Doctor j


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## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Sadly rich, I'll bet it's your drive. You have that kind of luck.. i think higher spin drives and larger caches do make a difference in these dvrs... I have a 4tb red drive in my 44 and it's anywhere from 20% to 0% free and it's been the same speed since day one.
> 
> I'd be curios about your experience with a SSD drive in yours. I have pondered doing that to mine as well, just for the heck of it...l


Glad you jumped in here. I can't think of anything else that could cause what I'm seeing.

I don't remember what model the 3TB drive I have in the 44 is...let me see if I can find it...3TB Caviar Green. Not a drive with high spin rates and a large cache I would think. I used to use Seagate Barracudas, they spun at 7200, the Green drives are at 5400 IIRC.

Did you check out the specs on the SSD I linked to? I have to know if a SATA III SSD will work in the 44. I don't see why it wouldn't but we didn't see why the WD MY BOOK eSATA devices wouldn't work with the 24s and I never got one to work.

Rich


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## inkahauts

I think they red drive I have in mine is a sata iii so I don’t see that being an issue...


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## Rich

NR4P said:


> I have a 2TB purple old fashioned spinning HDD in my HR44. Its very fast. I have noticed over the years that if I have any IP conflicts or issues on my home network, the HR44 suffers. If it is really slow, such as it takes many seconds to bring up the Guide or List, I would look at that.
> 
> Easy way to check for IP issues is disconnect it from home network. Reboot and see it works


I'm sitting here trying to remember how to disconnect an HR from MRV. I don't think I've ever done that. I'll figure it out and give it a try...I think I did it, it's rebooting now.

Rich


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## Rich

slice1900 said:


> *SATA is backwards compatible*, so if the Genie uses SATA drives your SATA III SSD will work. Worth a shot to see if it helps.
> 
> Question though - if you say your Genie used to be faster, I assume you've tried removing and wiping the drive (I'd use a real drive wipe program, not just a 'format') If that didn't help, it must be the software that's slowed it down, it would be interesting to see how much it would benefit from an SSD.


Thanx, that's what I was looking for. No, I haven't wiped the HDD clean, just dumped most of the content. Didn't see any reason to try to keep that HDD, it's as old as the 44 and will probably go south one of these days.

Rich


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## Rich

inkahauts said:


> I think they red drive I have in mine is a sata iii so I don't see that being an issue...


Thanx. That settles it. Just ordered it. Should have it tomorrow.

Rich


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## Rich

NR4P said:


> I have a 2TB purple old fashioned spinning HDD in my HR44. Its very fast. I have noticed over the years that if I have any IP conflicts or issues on my home network, the HR44 suffers. If it is really slow, such as it takes many seconds to bring up the Guide or List, I would look at that.
> 
> Easy way to check for IP issues is disconnect it from home network. Reboot and see it works


Well, that didn't work. Before I go nuts, how do I disconnect it from the network...I just can't figure out how to do it on the 44, somebody help me...

Rich


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## inkahauts

Rich said:


> Well, that didn't work. Before I go nuts, how do I disconnect it from the network...I just can't figure out how to do it on the 44, somebody help me...
> 
> Rich


You'd need a band stop filter to connect in-line on the coax so the DVRs didn't see each other. And then keep the DVR off your home network as well. Just totally isolate it to see if that might be some of the issue.

https://www.amazon.com/DECA-BSFR0-01-Band-Filter-DirecTv/dp/B005051UWC


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## Rich

inkahauts said:


> You'd need a band stop filter to connect in-line on the coax so the DVRs didn't see each other. And then keep the DVR off your home network as well. Just totally isolate it to see if that might be some of the issue.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/DECA-BSFR0-01-Band-Filter-DirecTv/dp/B005051UWC


Thanx. Could not figure out how to do it easily. Well, I do have one of those filters somewhere where I'll never find it. How do you "totally isolate" the damn thing? I tried taking the coax off the 44, that didn't work out well.

Rich


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## NR4P

Somewhere in your network you either have an ethernet line plugged in to a Genie or a Broadband Bridge. Unplug it and reboot.
Or maybe the Genie is on wireless? Remove the wireless SSID if it is on wireless.


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## videojanitor

I'll be waiting to see how this works out. I still have an HR20 in my equipment compliment -- it's running with a 1TB WD Red drive. While this has always been a rather sluggish machines, sometimes it's ridiculous -- it can take 20 seconds to change channels (screen goes black; info bar comes up with new channel number, but title from previous channel; new channel finally appears and info bar updates to correct title). I have often wondered exactly WHAT it is doing that is taking so long. Fortunately, most of the time, it takes maybe 5 seconds. But still ...


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## inkahauts

Rich said:


> Thanx. Could not figure out how to do it easily. Well, I do have one of those filters somewhere where I'll never find it. How do you "totally isolate" the damn thing? I tried taking the coax off the 44, that didn't work out well.
> 
> Rich


Yes the bsf on the coax, then make sure there is no Ethernet cable connected to it, and it's not connected via WiFi to any network either.


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## Rich

NR4P said:


> Somewhere in your network you either have an ethernet line plugged in to a Genie or a Broadband Bridge. Unplug it and reboot.
> Or maybe the Genie is on wireless? Remove the wireless SSID if it is on wireless.


Dawned on me last night how to do it. I'll try it today. Thanx.

Rich


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## Rich

inkahauts said:


> Yes the bsf on the coax, then make sure there is no Ethernet cable connected to it, and it's not connected via WiFi to any network either.


I figured it out last night, I know how to do it, I hope...

Rich


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## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> If you still have a working dock, maybe try the SSD in that _first_ before going through all the labor of putting it inside.
> 
> (Frankly, I'd be more interested whether the performance of the HR*2*x would be improved by a SSD.)
> 
> Hopefully you might have another use for the drive if there's no significant performance improvement.
> 
> At any rate, I'm certainly not going to be the one to discourage you from being the "first one on the block" to try it in a 44. (So far, I've only seen posts by someone using one in a TiVo.)


So, last night I'm laying in bed trying to remember how to open the 44 and I decided you were right. Much easier to do with one of my docks. Stupid to go thru all that when I can find out what I need to know by using the external drive. That will allow me to try it on a 24 too. I'm just waiting for the SSD to arrive...

Rich


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## Rich

videojanitor said:


> I'll be waiting to see how this works out. I still have an HR20 in my equipment compliment -- it's running with a 1TB WD Red drive. While this has always been a rather sluggish machines, sometimes it's ridiculous -- it can take 20 seconds to change channels (screen goes black; info bar comes up with new channel number, but title from previous channel; new channel finally appears and info bar updates to correct title). I have often wondered exactly WHAT it is doing that is taking so long. Fortunately, most of the time, it takes maybe 5 seconds. But still ...


Is that a 20-100 or a 700? I still have a couple 20-700s in my shed. Never had a 20-100 that worked and I had a lot of 20-100s. I like the 20-700s.

I am not gonna go thru the ordeal of putting the SSD in the 44, I'll try it in a dock and see what happens. I've put many new HDDs in docks over the years and the HRs they were on always got faster. I should have it on the 44 today and I'll let y'all know how it acts. Just remember, we won't know if this solves the speed issue for quite a while. Takes some time and some NRs for the HRs to slow down after a new HDD is inserted in or on the box.

Rich


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## videojanitor

Rich said:


> Is that a 20-100 or a 700? I still have a couple 20-700s in my shed. Never had a 20-100 that worked and I had a lot of 20-100s. I like the 20-700s.


It's a 20-700. It's been a reliable warrior -- I like it mainly because of the built-in OTA tuner, but the sluggish performance can be an annoyance. It seems like it did feel faster after I installed the WD Red drive, though I can't document it. Will still be interested to hear the results of your tests.


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## Rich

videojanitor said:


> It's a 20-700. It's been a reliable warrior -- I like it mainly because of the built-in OTA tuner, but the sluggish performance can be an annoyance. It seems like it did feel faster after I installed the WD Red drive, though I can't document it. Will still be interested to hear the results of your tests.


Glad to see it's a 700, I like them. Yes, when you put the Red drive in you should have seen much better performance. Then they slow down. I expect to see better performance, that's not gonna light up my life. That would happen with any new HDD. What I want to see is what happens a couple months from now. Nobody should run out and buy an SSD because of this thread until some time has passed...if it works at all. With my luck...

Rich


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## Rich

I finally have the SSD running on the 44. I put it in a Thermaltake dock and nothing happened except for one blinking red light. Blinked a couple times and the light went out. Not what I expected. Let it sit and all of a sudden it the TV said it was formatting the NEW drive. Oh goody. Went thru the reboot properly and I got a 771 error. No sat signal. Fortunately I have several HRs and quickly knew the SWM was working which meant the Deca box and PI was working but then I got a 775. Reset the PI and nada. Real WTF moment. Could only be the coax cable, right? I have never had a bad coax in the house. But I tried another coax and problem solved. 

Setup complete, SSD formatted. If not for the bad coax it would have been easy. Now, how does it work? I go to the Playlist and see a lot of programming. Go to switch to just the Playlist on the 44 and can't figure out how to do it. How do you do that? Shows you how much I use the 44, I gotta admit I'm stumped by a couple things. How do you isolate the Playlist on the 44?

Naturally the Guide is empty and I've got to put tonight's game in. Can't do the season thing, the Guides still loading. Can't do it from the Guide, the game doesn't show up. I did one manual recording but I can't get back to that screen. I do have the games recorded on a couple 24s so it's not vital but I'd like to know how to do it.

Ordeal over. Want to know what I'm seeing? Don't get too worked up, we really should wait a couple months to see if this is worth the money but I gotta say this: I have never seen or used a DVR that was anywhere near as fast as the 44 is now. I will say this: You are gonna have to see this to believe it! It blows away all my other DVRs. It is much faster than I would expect it to be with a new 3.5 HDD. I've put new HDDs in many HRs, I know what to expect...I did not expect this. Even if it does eventually slow down it will probably be faster than a DVR with a new HDD in it. 

Questions? 

Rich


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## Rich

The SSD works differently in the TT dock than a 3.5 HDD would. No vibration (I know zilch about SSDs, BTW), no way that I could see to tell if the SSD spun up (I'm thinking the SSDs don't really "spin up"). I did have to use the protocol for putting an HDD on an HR. Same thing. Pull the cord on both the dock and 44. Plug in the dock, let the SSD come up. Plug in the 44 and the SSD and 44 sync up. Actually works better with the SSD than any HDD I've ever used. Quiet, no ticking. Nice. No need to stick it in a DVR that I can see at this moment. I have a couple more docks somewhere and I'm thinking of picking up a couple more SSDs and putting them in docks on the 24s that I use. One of the 24s that I use in the course of the day is really slow, it would be interesting to see what an SSD can do for that.

I gotta calm down, gotta remember my lack of luck. This seems to be too good to be true.

Rich


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## sigma1914

To only show what is recorded locally on that unit..... List, Manage Recordings, scroll down to Playlist Share Settings, Show Recordings from : This location


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## Rich

sigma1914 said:


> To only show what is recorded locally on that unit..... List, Manage Recordings, scroll down to Playlist Share Settings, Show Recordings from : This location


Got it. Thanx, Nick.

Rich


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## slice1900

Rich said:


> The SSD works differently in the TT dock than a 3.5 HDD would. No vibration (I know zilch about SSDs, BTW), no way that I could see to tell if the SSD spun up (I'm thinking the SSDs don't really "spin up").


SSD = solid state disk. They use flash for storage instead of rotating platters, so there are no moving parts thus no vibration, no noise.


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## videojanitor

Rich said:


> Want to know what I'm seeing? Don't get too worked up, we really should wait a couple months to see if this is worth the money but I gotta say this: I have never seen or used a DVR that was anywhere near as fast as the 44 is now. I will say this: You are gonna have to see this to believe it! It blows away all my other DVRs. It is much faster than I would expect it to be with a new 3.5 HDD. I've put new HDDs in many HRs, I know what to expect...I did not expect this. Even if it does eventually slow down it will probably be faster than a DVR with a new HDD in it.


Thanks so much for the report. Based on your experience, I decided to order the 500GB version of that drive and will install it in my HR20. I know we have seen all the evidence about how SSD will wear out quickly in a DVR, but the HR20 is already quite long-in-the-tooth, so I'm not looking to get another ten years out of it. If the SSD gives me improved performance for just a few years, I'll consider that to be a win.


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## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> The SSD works differently in the TT dock than a 3.5 HDD would. No vibration (I know zilch about SSDs, BTW), no way that I could see to tell if the SSD spun up (I'm thinking the SSDs don't really "spin up"). I did have to use the protocol for putting an HDD on an HR. Same thing. Pull the cord on both the dock and 44. Plug in the dock, let the SSD come up. Plug in the 44 and the SSD and 44 sync up. Actually works better with the SSD than any HDD I've ever used. Quiet, no ticking. Nice. No need to stick it in a DVR that I can see at this moment. I have a couple more docks somewhere and I'm thinking of picking up a couple more SSDs and putting them in docks on the 24s that I use. One of the 24s that I use in the course of the day is really slow, it would be interesting to see what an SSD can do for that.
> 
> I gotta calm down, gotta remember my lack of luck. This seems to be too good to be true.
> 
> Rich


Good to read that the SSD works with the dock!

Hope it holds out over time. My thinking is even if they only last a year or less before "wearing out," might still be worth the time savings. Just pop another one in (depending on what one thinks one's time is worth waiting for a DVR to finish fulfilling commands over time vs the cost of another SSD).

I've got one DVR still using a dock and was thinking of trying an SSD in it. Right now is a slow, noisy 2TB Green drive.

Don't need that much space with that unit anymore.

Also got an HR21/700 with its original HDD in it and it's still speedier than any other HR2x in the household. A real workhorse, going on 11 years this fall.

I just can't imagine an SSD being anything but an improvement for performance. I think the "fear" has to do with how much they used to cost (esp. for larger capacities) and their "wearing out" prematurely.

Good luck and I hope the performance keeps up for you. Thanks for keeping us posted.


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## slice1900

I think the worries about the drives wearing out are overblown, especially in a Directv DVR where it isn't always recording all tuners like a Tivo is.

Besides, you can tell when it is nearing the end of its rated lifetime if you pull it out and hook it to a PC and get S.M.A.R.T. readings off it. Though SSDs typically outlast their rated write lifetime. Sometimes by a lot. Take out out after a year and see how much write lifetime is left, and then you can calculate how many years you have.


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## KyL416

slice1900 said:


> especially in a Directv DVR where it isn't always recording all tuners like a Tivo is.


The Genies are a different monster compared to the HR2x days. Between Genie Reccommends, pushed content for VOD and local ads, and in some cases automatic VOD downloads, there's a lot of background recording going on.


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## Jim5506

SSD's are not made for recording video, the type of recording that DVR's do will wear out an ssd prematurely and you really will not see a performance jump because the spinning drives are plenty fast for doing everything the DVR needs. Get you a hard drive made for DVR use and it will give you many years of good service, the SSD may go bad in a year or so, maybe sooner.


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## videojanitor

Jim5506 said:


> SSD's are not made for recording video, the type of recording that DVR's do will wear out an ssd prematurely and you really will not see a performance jump because the spinning drives are plenty fast for doing everything the DVR needs.


I agree with you in principle, but am willing to give an SSD a try if only as an experiment. I am not looking for any improvement in the record/play functions, but rather for "operating system" functions such as calling up the guide, playlist, or navigating various menus. Honestly, I don't know where that data is stored - I have always assumed it's on the drive. If that's the case, I am expecting an improvement. We shall see.


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## Rich

slice1900 said:


> SSD = solid state disk. They use flash for storage instead of rotating platters, so there are no moving parts thus no vibration, no noise.


Silent and very fast. The notification I got said you thought your Bolt might be faster. Again, you have to see what I am seeing. I cannot believe a TiVo with an HDD could be this fast.

Rich


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## Rich

videojanitor said:


> Thanks so much for the report. Based on your experience, I decided to order the 500GB version of that drive and will install it in my HR20. I know we have seen all the evidence about how SSD will wear out quickly in a DVR, but the HR20 is already quite long-in-the-tooth, so I'm not looking to get another ten years out of it. If the SSD gives me improved performance for just a few years, I'll consider that to be a win.


I just ordered the 500GB version too for a very slow 24-200. Should get that today and I'm gonna pop the box and put in with double sided heavy duty tape and make sure it is secured in that small sled by wire ties. The way the prices are falling for SSDs I might as well stick one in every HR I have. I'll put that thought on the back burner and see how well these two SSDs hold up before I go berserk. I'll give them a couple months and then make the decision.

Rich


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## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Good to read that the SSD works with the dock!
> 
> Hope it holds out over time. My thinking is even if they only last a year or less before "wearing out," might still be worth the time savings. Just pop another one in (depending on what one thinks one's time is worth waiting for a DVR to finish fulfilling commands over time vs the cost of another SSD).
> 
> I've got one DVR still using a dock and was thinking of trying an SSD in it. Right now is a slow, noisy 2TB Green drive.
> 
> Don't need that much space with that unit anymore.
> 
> Also got an HR21/700 with its original HDD in it and it's still speedier than any other HR2x in the household. A real workhorse, going on 11 years this fall.
> 
> I just can't imagine an SSD being anything but an improvement for performance. I think the "fear" has to do with how much they used to cost (esp. for larger capacities) and their "wearing out" prematurely.
> 
> Good luck and I hope the performance keeps up for you. Thanks for keeping us posted.


Be really interesting to see how much the prices drop in the next year. I'm good for a while, nobody uses the three 24s very much, no point in spending money on them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Jim5506 said:


> SSD's are not made for recording video, the type of recording that DVR's do will wear out an ssd prematurely and *you really will not see a performance jump *because the spinning drives are plenty fast for doing everything the DVR needs. Get you a hard drive made for DVR use and it will give you many years of good service, the SSD may go bad in a year or so, maybe sooner.


I am seeing a massive performance jump on the 44. But you might be right about them wearing out quickly. I had to do something and this seemed like it might work. Didn't cost much and it seems to be worth it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

videojanitor said:


> I agree with you in principle, but am willing to give an SSD a try if only as an experiment. I am not looking for any improvement in the record/play functions, but rather for "operating system" functions such as calling up the guide, playlist, or navigating various menus. Honestly, I don't know where that data is stored - I have always assumed it's on the drive. If that's the case, I am expecting an improvement. We shall see.


You are gonna see a big improvement using "trick play". The 30 Second Skip works much better altho it took me by surprise first time I tried it. I was used to hitting the Skip button and seeing one frame displayed during the Skip. Now I see many frames and can actually tell what's going on. The Skip back button also works better, it seems to be much faster.

We were told for years that the firmware resided on Flash memory on the motherboard. Not sure what's going on now. We always hear negative opinions on these threads. Maybe they are right. I only remember reading one post (I read most D* related posts) about someone putting an SSD in a 24 and that worked out well IIRC. Was some time ago and if that member would get back to us with his experience it would be appreciated.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Here's a question about SSDs: Is this the first time an SSD has been put in a Genie? Can anyone answer that question? If someone has, would you get back to us? Or an SSD in a 24? I read one post about that. 

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> Here's a question about SSDs: Is this the first time an SSD has been put in a Genie? Can anyone answer that question? If someone has, would you get back to us? Or an SSD in a 24? I read one post about that.
> 
> Rich


See posts 28 and 30 in this thread.
SSD in DVR?


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Silent and very fast. The notification I got said you thought your Bolt might be faster. Again, you have to see what I am seeing. I cannot believe a TiVo with an HDD could be this fast.
> 
> Rich


My original post was going to mention the Bolt but I didn't want to bog it down with unnecessary details. But yeah I have a hard time believing the Genie could ever be faster than the Bolt. Directv's programmers suck 

The Bolt has a built in flash drive / SSD which stores the OS and settings, and only stores the recordings and a backup copy of the settings on the hard drive. For recording video an SSD is not better in any way than a hard drive, since both are far faster than the speed required for video recording / playback.

I'm not sure what Directv is doing with the hard drives that makes them perform better with an SSD. I guess that probably a lot of important data like guide info and other stuff is stored on the hard drive of their DVRs. Having to move the read head of the drive around to pick up a lot of little files (or worse, fragments of a lot of little files) is where hard drives really slow down, and where SSDs have their main advantage.


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> See posts 28 and 30 in this thread.
> SSD in DVR?


Thanx, could not believe no one had done it before. Post #28 said it was working for 4 years in a D* TiVo. I can't imagine being with D* for four more years. But spending a couple hundred bucks a year to get the HRs to work correctly doesn't bother me.

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> My original post was going to mention the Bolt but I didn't want to bog it down with unnecessary details. But yeah I have a hard time believing the Genie could ever be faster than the Bolt. Directv's programmers suck
> 
> The Bolt has a built in flash drive / SSD which stores the OS and settings, and only stores the recordings and a backup copy of the settings on the hard drive. For recording video an SSD is not better in any way than a hard drive, since both are far faster than the speed required for video recording / playback.
> 
> I'm not sure what Directv is doing with the hard drives that makes them perform better with an SSD. I guess that probably a lot of important data like guide info and other stuff is stored on the hard drive of their DVRs. Having to move the read head of the drive around to pick up a lot of little files (or worse, fragments of a lot of little files) is where hard drives really slow down, and where SSDs have their main advantage.


I've never used a Bolt. Can't compare them. Yes, you are right about the programmers.

Rich


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## videojanitor

Rich said:


> You are gonna see a big improvement using "trick play". The 30 Second Skip works much better altho it took me by surprise first time I tried it. I was used to hitting the Skip button and seeing one frame displayed during the Skip. Now I see many frames and can actually tell what's going on. The Skip back button also works better, it seems to be much faster.


Looking forward to seeing what happens, and will post my results in this thread. Funny thing about my HR20 is that sometimes it feels like it works fairly fast -- then at other times, it takes 20 seconds to call up the guide or playlist. In my mind, that suggests an issue with accessing the data -- if it was stored in RAM, it seems like it would be very consistent. Well, it will be an interesting, and relatively inexpensive, experiment if nothing else.


----------



## mrknowitall526

But you yourself have said that you rarely used the 44, so how can you really compare? My 44 has been speedy since day 1 and 4 years later is just as fast. In fact the new GUI has sped it up a bit. I don't fiddle with the drives and I have 3% free space currently. ‍♂


Rich said:


> You are gonna see a big improvement using "trick play". The 30 Second Skip works much better altho it took me by surprise first time I tried it. I was used to hitting the Skip button and seeing one frame displayed during the Skip. Now I see many frames and can actually tell what's going on. The Skip back button also works better, it seems to be much faster.
> 
> We were told for years that the firmware resided on Flash memory on the motherboard. Not sure what's going on now. We always hear negative opinions on these threads. Maybe they are right. I only remember reading one post (I read most D* related posts) about someone putting an SSD in a 24 and that worked out well IIRC. Was some time ago and if that member would get back to us with his experience it would be appreciated.
> 
> Rich


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## b4pjoe

mrknowitall526 said:


> But you yourself have said that you rarely used the 44, so how can you really compare? My 44 has been speedy since day 1 and 4 years later is just as fast. In fact the new GUI has sped it up a bit. I don't fiddle with the drives and I have 3% free space currently. ‍♂


My 44 with the new GUI is anything but speedy and I have 90% free space on it at the moment.

My wife has an HR24 that is even slower. Painfully slow.

What size HD is in the HR24 and how hard is it to open it and replace the internal drive? I have a couple of spare 500 GB SSDs. If it matters my DVR's are leased from DTV. Is that a no-no to replace the HD in leased equipment?


----------



## videojanitor

b4pjoe said:


> My 44 with the new GUI is anything but speedy and I have 90% free space on it at the moment.


I have a 54, and that is my experience as well. It really took a performance hit with the new GUI. Sad.


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## videojanitor

b4pjoe said:


> If it matters my DVR's are leased from DTV. Is that a no-no to replace the HD in leased equipment?


It's a no-no, but my feeling is that if you're pretty sure they'll never want it back, then there's no harm. I know for certain they will never want my HR20 back (I previously deactivated two others, several years ago, and they didn't want them), so I have no qualms about opening it up. I've seen anecdotal evidence that they don't want HR24s back now, but no direct experience.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> Thanx, could not believe no one had done it before. Post #28 said it was working for 4 years in a D* TiVo. I can't imagine being with D* for four more years. *But spending a couple hundred bucks a year to get the HRs to work correctly doesn't bother me.*
> 
> Rich


This is _precisely_ where *I'm* coming from.

(In other words - as I've already said - what's one's time worth waiting for DVR commands to be fulfilled vs the cost of replacing the drives every so often?)

I hope you'll still see performance improvements (and I think you should) even after all the posters and bloatware, etc. have had a chance to reload. I'd think it's where the SSD would really shine over a conventional mechanical drive.

Thanks for keeping us posted.


----------



## Rich

Rich said:


> You are gonna see a big improvement using "trick play". *The 30 Second Skip* works much better altho it took me by surprise first time I tried it. I was used to hitting the Skip button and seeing one frame displayed during the Skip. Now I see many frames and can actually tell what's going on. The Skip back button also works better, it seems to be much faster.
> 
> We were told for years that the firmware resided on Flash memory on the motherboard. Not sure what's going on now. We always hear negative opinions on these threads. Maybe they are right. I only remember reading one post (I read most D* related posts) about someone putting an SSD in a 24 and that worked out well IIRC. Was some time ago and if that member would get back to us with his experience it would be appreciated.
> 
> Rich


Watching the game yesterday I thought something was wrong with the 30 Second Skip. I was using it and it was rather chaotic. I thought it looked as if it was "slipping" rather than "skipping". Then it dawned on me that with a new drive you always have to reset the skip. Did that and it's much better. Sorry for any confusion.

Rich


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## Rich

mrknowitall526 said:


> But you yourself have said that you rarely used the 44, so how can you really compare? My 44 has been speedy since day 1 and 4 years later is just as fast. In fact the new GUI has sped it up a bit. I don't fiddle with the drives and I have 3% free space currently. ‍♂
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


I only use D* DVRs for sports. I use the 44 for just about every ball game. You're right, I have no other Genies to compare it to. But I've been using these DVRs for a long time and I know what an HR with a slowness problem looks like. I have four 24s active at this time and the best of them has a new HDD in it and the 44 was not as quick. Now the 44 is faster than that 24. Much faster. Is that enough for you to believe me? When I got the 44 I had a 3TB WD drive waiting and installed it after I made sure it worked correctly. It was fast at that time then it got slower. Now it seems to be faster than it ever was. I just put a smaller SSD in a 24-200 that was abysmally slow and kept freezing. The SSD in that fixed just about everything. I can compare 24s and the 24-200 responds more quickly than the 24-100 with the newer HDD. There is a difference and it is obvious.

I'm not trying to sell SSDs, I just wanted to get my slow DVRs fast again.

Rich


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## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> My 44 with the new GUI is anything but speedy and I have 90% free space on it at the moment.
> 
> My wife has an HR24 that is even slower. Painfully slow.
> 
> What size HD is in the HR24 and how hard is it to open it and replace the internal drive? I have a couple of spare 500 GB SSDs. If it matters my DVR's are leased from DTV. Is that a no-no to replace the HD in leased equipment?


Yup, the terms you agreed to when you became a member prohibit you from opening the box. All my HRs are owned, I can open the box.

The stock HDD in a 24 is 500GB. Too small for the DVR. If the 24 is slow see how much content you have and if it's over half full that might be the cause. Keep it less than half full and you might see more speed. Same thing with the 44. That's got a 1TB drive in it and that's too small if you record a lot of programs. Some folks are gonna say they don't have speed problems, that's natural. Not every D* DVR will work the same, even different models will have different issues. We also have a lot of members that really know what they're doing and I don't expect them to have many speed issues.

I tried everything to get the two HRs back to some semblance of what they were and nothing worked. I know my HR24-200 is a good DVR and I know the HR44-700 is a great DVR and now they both are running as well, if not better (and I'm pretty sure "better" is correct) than they ever did. But stick a new drive in or on any HR and you will see what a good DVR looks like. Then they get slow. No matter how much you know, no matter how many things you try (I am so tired of putting CLEARMYBOX in the Search box, why can't we save that search?) they slow down. Seems like the software updates just slow things down.

Rich


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## Rich

NR4P said:


> Somewhere in your network you either have an ethernet line plugged in to a Genie or a Broadband Bridge. Unplug it and reboot.
> Or maybe the Genie is on wireless? Remove the wireless SSID if it is on wireless.


I did what you suggested, didn't help. I've tried everything I could think of. Hoping the SSD is the solution.

Rich


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## Rich

The 500GB SSD is installed in my 24-200. I used another Thermaltake dock and the setup went smoothly. Again, the dock did not do what it would have with an HDD. I just did the usual eSATA startup and saw no blinking lights on the dock and walked away. Gave it a few minutes, went back and it was up and running...like it was brand new! Only thing I saw last night that disturbed me was the Playlist. When I brought it up there was the usual second or two delay with no content on the PL. I had hoped that wouldn't happen. Aside from that, it's working really well. So far.

Rich


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## Rich

videojanitor said:


> I agree with you in principle, but am willing to give an SSD a try if only as an experiment. I am not looking for any improvement in the record/play functions, but rather for "operating system" functions such as calling up the guide, playlist, or navigating various menus. Honestly, I don't know where that data is stored - I have always assumed it's on the drive. If that's the case, I am expecting an improvement. We shall see.


I do see a big improvement in my 24-200. Be interesting to see how it affects the 20-700. Rejuvenation, perhaps? I like the 20-700s.

Rich


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## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> Yup, the terms you agreed to when you became a member prohibit you from opening the box. All my HRs are owned, I can open the box.
> 
> The stock HDD in a 24 is 500GB. Too small for the DVR. If the 24 is slow see how much content you have and if it's over half full that might be the cause. Keep it less than half full and you might see more speed. Same thing with the 44. That's got a 1TB drive in it and that's too small if you record a lot of programs. Some folks are gonna say they don't have speed problems, that's natural. Not every D* DVR will work the same, even different models will have different issues. We also have a lot of members that really know what they're doing and I don't expect them to have many speed issues.
> 
> I tried everything to get the two HRs back to some semblance of what they were and nothing worked. I know my HR24-200 is a good DVR and I know the HR44-700 is a great DVR and now they both are running as well, if not better (and I'm pretty sure "better" is correct) than they ever did. But stick a new drive in or on any HR and you will see what a good DVR looks like. Then they get slow. No matter how much you know, no matter how many things you try (I am so tired of putting CLEARMYBOX in the Search box, why can't we save that search?) they slow down. Seems like the software updates just slow things down.
> 
> Rich


So you used an external SSD via the esata connection? I was wondering if you get the full speed of the SSD with an external connector compared to it being installed internally?


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## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> So you used an external SSD via the esata connection? I was wondering if you get the full speed of the SSD with an external connector compared to it being installed internally?


I wonder about things like that too. I've always wondered about the eSATA function. Does adding an external drive cause the DVR to function differently? Does putting an external drive on an HR drag the performance of that HR down? I've used externals for over 10 years and never saw any indication of anything different. The HRs seem to work as well with an internal or external. Always wondered if having two drives active on one box would cause problems, never saw anything to make me think it did. In short, I can't answer that question, all I know is both HRs are running really well...so far.

Rich


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## inkahauts

Rich said:


> I wonder about things like that too. I've always wondered about the eSATA function. Does adding an external drive cause the DVR to function differently? Does putting an external drive on an HR drag the performance of that HR down? I've used externals for over 10 years and never saw any indication of anything different. The HRs seem to work as well with an internal or external. Always wondered if having two drives active on one box would cause problems, never saw anything to make me think it did. In short, I can't answer that question, all I know is both HRs are running really well...so far.
> 
> Rich


I believe that when the unit powers up it's just like a computer, and loads a hard drive based on priority. Once it chooses a hard drive since they are connected with the same interface there is zero difference other than the possibility of the hard drives themselves being different and having different performance abilities.


----------



## jimmie57

inkahauts said:


> I believe that when the unit powers up it's just like a computer, and loads a hard drive based on priority. Once it chooses a hard drive since they are connected with the same interface there is zero difference other than the possibility of the hard drives themselves being different and having different performance abilities.


From what I am reading thee transfer rate of the Thermaltake dock is 3Gps.
I think the SSD is 6Gps transfer rate.


----------



## videojanitor

Rich said:


> I do see a big improvement in my 24-200. Be interesting to see how it affects the 20-700. Rejuvenation, perhaps? I like the 20-700s.


I installed the 500GB SSD in my HR20-700 earlier this afternoon. After using it for awhile, I must say, I am quite impressed. The responsiveness when accessing the guide and menus is much improved -- it's at least as fast, if not faster than my HR24. Previously after pressing MENU, it was at least a few seconds before I could scroll down to select one of the options -- now, there is no delay at all. Guide comes up within one-second of pressing button. Previously could take up to ten seconds. I will keep my eye on it to see if it bog down over time, but as of right now, this is quite an improvement.

Edit: Weird ... just as clicked "Post Reply" on this message, the receiver went to black and displayed an "Insert Valid Access Card" message. (???) I removed and reinserted the card and everything came back.


----------



## Rich

inkahauts said:


> I believe that when the unit powers up it's just like a computer, and loads a hard drive based on priority. Once it chooses a hard drive since they are connected with the same interface there is zero difference other than the possibility of the hard drives themselves being different and having different performance abilities.


Don't think that's what I meant. We were told the firmware resides on flash memory somewhere on the motherboard. So, when I put an external drive on an HR the internal drive becomes...what? Originally, we were told it sorta becomes dormant and does nothing. That seemed to be correct, I could take out the internal drive and run an HR on only an external drive. I did that more than once, never had a problem that I recall.

Then we heard the internal drive now had to be in there because some software would reside on that. After that announcement I tried an HR without an internal drive and it didn't work (memory is not my strongest thing), if IIRC. Never gave it a thought and was immersed in buying all my HRs. Thought I was thru with external devices for good, but my 24-200 doesn't easily take a 3.5 HDD and I had to use an external drive, kept all my docks. With the SSDs being so easy to use in the docks it seems kinda dumb to go thru the ordeal of changing internal drives. So, I ask again: What does the internal drive do?

Rich


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> From what I am reading thee transfer rate of the Thermaltake dock is 3Gps.
> I think the SSD is 6Gps transfer rate.


What capacity does that spec you're reading give? Used to be 2TB and I doubt they changed it. That's wrong and I have to wonder if they (Thermaltake) know what those docks can actually do. The capacity rating is very wrong, would not be surprised if they have it wrong about the transfer rate too. PQ I'm seeing from both SSDs seems normal.

Rich


----------



## Rich

videojanitor said:


> I installed the 500GB SSD in my HR20-700 earlier this afternoon. After using it for awhile, I must say, I am quite impressed. The responsiveness when accessing the guide and menus is much improved -- it's at least as fast, if not faster than my HR24. Previously after pressing MENU, it was at least a few seconds before I could scroll down to select one of the options -- now, there is no delay at all. *Guide comes up within one-second of pressing button.* Previously could take up to ten seconds. I will keep my eye on it to see if it bog down over time, but as of right now, this is quite an improvement.
> 
> Edit: Weird ... just as clicked "Post Reply" on this message, the receiver went to black and displayed an "Insert Valid Access Card" message. (???) I removed and reinserted the card and everything came back.


Playlist and the Guide on my 24-200 have that one second delay but I don't see it on the 44. Sure did before I put the SSD in. Everything else on the 24 seems good, problem is I'm comparing the 24 to the 44 (I usually watch a game in two rooms at different times) and that's wrong, of course the 44 is gonna be faster. Before I put the SSD in the 44 it was slower than the 24-100 I use at times and that HR has a new WD HDD in it. The 24-200 was a dog, now it's working very well.

Access cards can go bad. Do you see anything odd on the card? Discoloration due to heat?

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> What capacity does that spec you're reading give? Used to be 2TB and I doubt they changed it. That's wrong and I have to wonder if they (Thermaltake) know what those docks can actually do. The capacity rating is very wrong, would not be surprised if they have it wrong about the transfer rate too. PQ I'm seeing from both SSDs seems normal.
> 
> Rich


Your drive you linked has it when you scroll down.
Then I typed in Thermaltake Dock and the Black X came up and I read the spec for the transfer speed in it's specs. All on Amazon.


----------



## b4pjoe

There are 3 types of sata drives:

Difference between SATA I, SATA II and SATA III
What is the difference between SATA I, SATA II and SATA III?
SATA I (revision 1.x) interface, formally known as SATA 1.5Gb/s, is the first generation SATA interface running at 1.5 Gb/s. The bandwidth throughput, which is supported by the interface, is up to 150MB/s.

SATA II (revision 2.x) interface, formally known as SATA 3Gb/s, is a second generation SATA interface running at 3.0 Gb/s. The bandwidth throughput, which is supported by the interface, is up to 300MB/s.

SATA III (revision 3.x) interface, formally known as SATA 6Gb/s, is a third generation SATA interface running at 6.0Gb/s. The bandwidth throughput, which is supported by the interface, is up to 600MB/s. This interface is backwards compatible with SATA 3 Gb/s interface.

SATA II specifications provide backward compatibility to function on SATA I ports. SATA III specifications provide backward compatibility to function on SATA I and SATA II ports. However, the maximum speed of the drive will be slower due to the lower speed limitations of the port.

Example: SanDisk Extreme SSD, which supports SATA 6Gb/s interface and when connected to SATA 6Gb/s port, can reach up to 550/520MB/s sequential read and sequential write speed rates respectively. However, when the drive is connected to SATA 3 Gb/s port, it can reach up to 285/275MB/s sequential read and sequential write speed rates respectively.

This Thermaltake dock is rated at 3 Gbps which means it is a SATA II dock and can never go over 3 Gbps even if you put a 6 Gbps drive in it.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Hot-Swap-External-Docking-Compatible/dp/B001A4HAFS


----------



## jimmie57

b4pjoe said:


> There are 3 types of sata drives:
> 
> Difference between SATA I, SATA II and SATA III
> What is the difference between SATA I, SATA II and SATA III?
> SATA I (revision 1.x) interface, formally known as SATA 1.5Gb/s, is the first generation SATA interface running at 1.5 Gb/s. The bandwidth throughput, which is supported by the interface, is up to 150MB/s.
> 
> SATA II (revision 2.x) interface, formally known as SATA 3Gb/s, is a second generation SATA interface running at 3.0 Gb/s. The bandwidth throughput, which is supported by the interface, is up to 300MB/s.
> 
> SATA III (revision 3.x) interface, formally known as SATA 6Gb/s, is a third generation SATA interface running at 6.0Gb/s. The bandwidth throughput, which is supported by the interface, is up to 600MB/s. This interface is backwards compatible with SATA 3 Gb/s interface.
> 
> SATA II specifications provide backward compatibility to function on SATA I ports. SATA III specifications provide backward compatibility to function on SATA I and SATA II ports. However, the maximum speed of the drive will be slower due to the lower speed limitations of the port.
> 
> Example: SanDisk Extreme SSD, which supports SATA 6Gb/s interface and when connected to SATA 6Gb/s port, can reach up to 550/520MB/s sequential read and sequential write speed rates respectively. However, when the drive is connected to SATA 3 Gb/s port, it can reach up to 285/275MB/s sequential read and sequential write speed rates respectively.
> 
> This Thermaltake dock is rated at 3 Gbps which means it is a SATA II dock and can never go over 3 Gbps even if you put a 6 Gbps drive in it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Hot-Swap-External-Docking-Compatible/dp/B001A4HAFS


I could be reading this one wrong but it does the 6Gbps transfer.
Thermaltake - Max 5

*Edit: I did read that wrong. It supports drives with 6Gbps but the transfer rate is still 3Gbps.*


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> Your drive you linked has it when you scroll down.
> Then I typed in Thermaltake Dock and the Black X came up and I read the spec for the transfer speed in it's specs. All on Amazon.


Point I was trying to make is a lot of the makers of external devices have the wrong info in their specs. TT certainly does when it comes to capacity.

Rich


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## b4pjoe

jimmie57 said:


> I could be reading this one wrong but it does the 6Gbps transfer.
> Thermaltake - Max 5
> 
> *Edit: I did read that wrong. It supports drives with 6Gbps but the transfer rate is still 3Gbps.*


Here is an external enclosure that is a SATA III and will do 6 Gbps...assuming a DTV receiver can do 6Gbps.

https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-SATA-eSATA-Enclosure-NST-366SU3-BK/dp/B014LQOGV2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1534787751&sr=8-7&keywords=SATA+III+external+hard+drive+enclosure


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Here is an external enclosure that is a SATA III and will do 6 Gbps...assuming a DTV receiver can do 6Gbps.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-SATA-eSATA-Enclosure-NST-366SU3-BK/dp/B014LQOGV2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1534787751&sr=8-7&keywords=SATA+III+external+hard+drive+enclosure


Okay, what happens if I use my old dock and get only 3Gbps? What I'm seeing looks really good but if I stick it in the box will it be better? Does a 24 support SATA III? The 44 is running really well, I'm not gonna open that up. I'm thinking about opening the 24 and finding out. Geez, I thought I was done with these things...appears all I've done is open up yet another can of worms.

Rich


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## b4pjoe

Not sure what the DTV boxes support. Could be SATA I, II, or III. I did a google search and never found anything about what level of SATA the boxes support.


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## jimmie57

b4pjoe said:


> Not sure what the DTV boxes support. Could be SATA I, II, or III. I did a google search and never found anything about what level of SATA the boxes support.


Since they are old, in tech years, I would guess that it is less than the 3Gbps. I am pretty sure the old original drives in them were of the 5,400 rpm type.


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## b4pjoe

Yeah I would be very surprised if the HR24 or older supported SATA III. The Genie 44, 54, or HS17 might though.


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## slice1900

jimmie57 said:


> From what I am reading thee transfer rate of the Thermaltake dock is 3Gps.
> I think the SSD is 6Gps transfer rate.


Not relevant for use in a DVR, you'd never be able to tell the difference.


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## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Not sure what the DTV boxes support. Could be SATA I, II, or III. I did a google search and never found anything about what level of SATA the boxes support.


Thanx,

Rich


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## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> Since they are old, in tech years, I would guess that it is less than the 3bps. I am pretty sure the old original drives in them were of the 5,400 rpm type.


The 24s all had (at least all I've opened up) Seagate Pipeline HDDs in them. Pretty sure they were 7200rpm.

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Not relevant for use in a DVR, you'd never be able to tell the difference.


Yup, just put the SSD inside the 24-200 and I see no difference.

Rich


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> Since they are old, in tech years, I would guess that it is less than the 3bps. I am pretty sure the old original drives in them were of the 5,400 rpm type.


I put the SSD in the 24 and I see no difference. My 24-200 has it's birthday on a label on the bottom...2013. Nowhere to secure the SSD, it's floating...

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Yup, just put the SSD inside the 24-200 and I see no difference.
> 
> Rich


That's not what I meant - just that the difference between SATA I speed of 1.5 Gbps, II at 3 Gbps and III at 6 Gbps won't matter for ANY DVR. That slowest speed is enough for 150 MB/sec, and an HD recording/playback is less than 1 MB/sec.


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> That's not what I meant - just that the difference between SATA I speed of 1.5 Gbps, II at 3 Gbps and III at 6 Gbps won't matter for ANY DVR. That slowest speed is enough for 150 MB/sec, and an HD recording/playback is less than 1 MB/sec.


I understood what you said. I had to see if there was actually any difference. Don't see any.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> The 24s all had (at least all I've opened up) Seagate Pipeline HDDs in them. Pretty sure they were 7200rpm.
> 
> Rich


There are Seagate Pipline drives that are 3 Gbps (500 GB) and 6 Gbps (2 TB).


----------



## b4pjoe

slice1900 said:


> That's not what I meant - just that the difference between SATA I speed of 1.5 Gbps, II at 3 Gbps and III at 6 Gbps won't matter for ANY DVR. That slowest speed is enough for 150 MB/sec, and an HD recording/playback is less than 1 MB/sec.


Yes it isn't going to make any difference on the video streaming but it will make the UI faster as evidenced by Rich's experience. And from his tests it seems he is seeing the same result in improved performance whether the SSD in used as an external in his dock or mounted internally in the dvr.


----------



## videojanitor

Rich said:


> Access cards can go bad. Do you see anything odd on the card? Discoloration due to heat?


No signs of any heat damage. It's been running for 24 hours since that error appeared -- no further problems. Perhaps the card was just not seated correctly? I remove/reinsert it during the drive installation process.


----------



## slice1900

b4pjoe said:


> Yes it isn't going to make any difference on the video streaming but it will make the UI faster as evidenced by Rich's experience. And from his tests it seems he is seeing the same result in improved performance whether the SSD in used as an external in his dock or mounted internally in the dvr.


No, it won't. The throughput of SSDs has zero effect on the speed of the GUI, that's not what is making the SSDs work faster for him, it is the near zero latency that matters.


----------



## b4pjoe

Yes I agree. Thereby making the guide faster than with a traditional HD.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Yes it isn't going to make any difference on the video streaming but it will make the UI faster as evidenced by Rich's experience. And from his tests it seems he is seeing the same result in improved performance whether the SSD in used as an external in his dock or mounted internally in the dvr.


I didn't have the SSD in the dock on the 24 for very long. But I saw no difference in...anything. I've never really seen any difference in an HR with an internal drive and one with an external drive. That's always puzzled me. Always thought it would be like a car with a trailer, drags the car's performance down. I have never seen any evidence of that. Still puzzles me.

I didn't expect to see anything special regarding the picture quality and I don't see anything. Really didn't know what to expect, but here's one thing that I have noticed: I use the 24-200 in our utility room and it's never been able to connect to the 44 (and vice versa) which is upstairs and on a different SWM16. All our other HRs are always easy to connect using MRV. Since I put the SSD in the 44 I have had no problem bringing up content on the 44 using the 24-200 to watch that content. I did not expect this. Only thing that changed is the SSD in the 24 and the SSD in the 44. Before I installed the SSDs I could see the content on the 24 on the 44's Playlist and vice versa but they refused to connect to each other. Now they do and not one thing has changed except for the SSDs. Over the years I've changed splitters, cables, positions on splitters, numerous reboots...everything I could think of except changing SWMs, which made no sense to me. But MRV now works with all 5 HRs, makes me happy.

Rich


----------



## Rich

videojanitor said:


> No signs of any heat damage. It's been running for 24 hours since that error appeared -- no further problems. Perhaps the card was just not seated correctly? I remove/reinsert it during the drive installation process.


Dimly remember someone using alcohol swabs to clean off access cards. My son's ATM card had a chip problem a couple weeks ago, we tried cleaning that off and ended up having to replace it. If the access card has anymore problems perhaps you should get a new one. I don't think they'd charge for a replacement of a card that doesn't work correctly. Or you might have seated it incorrectly, stuff like that does happen.

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> No, it won't. The throughput of SSDs has zero effect on the speed of the GUI, that's not what is making the SSDs work faster for him, it is the near zero latency that matters.


Oddly, I understood that. My son's a gamer, latency matters to gamers, it was explained to me in detail. I have no idea how that applies to a DVR (normal for me, I usually have no clue).

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Yes I agree. Thereby making the guide faster than with a traditional HD.


Brings me back to what I'm seeing. Which is a 24 that's running better than any of the 24s I have. And a 44 that's surprising. I watched a game day before yesterday and the 44 did not annoy me at all. Even the Black Shroud did not annoy me. That's what I wanted...DVRs that don't annoy me. Now all I have to do is stop comparing the 24 to the 44, that never ends well.

Rich


----------



## videojanitor

Here's another improvement I've noticed, and this may be purely anecdotal: My HR20 has always had trouble when encountering the local "roll-in" ads that DirecTV inserts on many channels -- the machine would freeze at the beginning of those ads, then become a complete mess for 5-10 seconds. At least 50% of the time, it resulted in an unrecoverable situation with the video freezing indefinitely -- I had to change the channel, and then change it back to clear the problem. Since the installation of the SSD, this has not happened. Coincidence?


----------



## Rich

videojanitor said:


> Here's another improvement I've noticed, and this may be purely anecdotal: My HR20 has always had trouble when encountering the local "roll-in" ads that DirecTV inserts on many channels -- the machine would freeze at the beginning of those ads, then become a complete mess for 5-10 seconds. At least 50% of the time, it resulted in an unrecoverable situation with the video freezing indefinitely -- I had to change the channel, and then change it back to clear the problem. Since the installation of the SSD, this has not happened. Coincidence?


I'm beginning to think all the problems we've had are caused by HDDs. How old is the HDD you took out of the 20-700? If it's the original HDD...could be 12 years old. I just dumped a 2TB drive that I had in a dock on my 24-200. Still worked but is that the criteria we should be looking at in an HDD? Just because it works doesn't mean it's working properly. The experience you had and wrote about above is similar to my 24-200 and the 44 finally working together on my MRV system. No reason I can think of for these two issues being seemingly resolved other than an HDD that still functioned being replaced by an SSD. The "why" of this baffles me but that's nothing new. I can live with accepting things and not knowing why they happen.

After I told my son about the SSDs he did some research online and he thinks SSDs don't take being filled up very well. That should not be a problem for me. But if you put a lot of content on the 20-700 it will be interesting to see if the performance slowly deteriorates as it does with a 3.5 HDD. A 500GB drive will fill up fast. You should see something in a month or so. If you see anything at all. I've set a notification for every month to remind me to check for problems.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

videojanitor said:


> Here's another improvement I've noticed, and this may be purely anecdotal: My HR20 has always had trouble when encountering the local "roll-in" ads that DirecTV inserts on many channels -- the machine would freeze at the beginning of those ads, then become a complete mess for 5-10 seconds. At least 50% of the time, it resulted in an unrecoverable situation with the video freezing indefinitely -- I had to change the channel, and then change it back to clear the problem. Since the installation of the SSD, this has not happened. Coincidence?


First question I would have, "Have you waited long enough for those roll-in ads to reload onto the new drive?"

We've got an HR20/700 plagued with the same problem. This on recordings, too (not just live buffer). Workaround was to record that content from the low-def counterpart channel, avoiding those ads.

I would certainly be heartened to hear of SSD eliminating these types of annoyances!

I've found a larger percentage of annoyances of *all* HRs go away for the most part by recording and playback from the list, rather than live buffering of channels. Also pause the picture before doing anything else (such as viewing the guide).

Unfortunately, in our household I've only been able to "train" one person (other than myself) to use the DVR this way.

If something as simple as SSD would help remove these (and other) "annoyances," I'd think the possibility of a slightly happier household!

Please keep us posted.


----------



## videojanitor

Rich said:


> I'm beginning to think all the problems we've had are caused by HDDs. How old is the HDD you took out of the 20-700? If it's the original HDD...could be 12 years old. I just dumped a 2TB drive that I had in a dock on my 24-200. Still worked but is that the criteria we should be looking at in an HDD? Just because it works doesn't mean it's working properly.


The drive was only a year old -- it was a 1TB WD Red.

I just decided to try an experiment -- I formatted the HDD mentioned above, and reinstalled it in place of the SSD. Thought this might be an interesting way to gather more anecdotal information as to whether or not the performance of these drives degrades over time, due to "junk" possibly accumulating. I've only had it running about 30 minutes, but so far, it seems about on par with what I was experiencing with the SSD. Guide and menu response feels about the same. I'll let this go for a few days and see if it begins to bog down. Might actually take weeks or months for that to happen ...


----------



## videojanitor

Delroy E Walleye said:


> First question I would have, "Have you waited long enough for those roll-in ads to reload onto the new drive?"


That I don't know. Any idea how long it takes for these ads to get reloaded? If you read the message I just posted, you'll see that I have temporarily (or maybe permanently?) gone back to the original HDD (freshly formatted) to compare the performance. The SSD didn't freeze or show other problems during the three days that I used it -- we'll see how the HDD is doing after three days.


----------



## Rich

videojanitor said:


> The drive was only a year old -- it was a 1TB WD Red.
> 
> I just decided to try an experiment -- I formatted the HDD mentioned above, and reinstalled it in place of the SSD. Thought this might be an interesting way to gather more anecdotal information as to whether or not the performance of these drives degrades over time, due to "junk" possibly accumulating. I've only had it running about 30 minutes, but so far, it seems about on par with what I was experiencing with the SSD. Guide and menu response feels about the same. I'll let this go for a few days and see if it begins to bog down. Might actually take weeks or months for that to happen ...


I have no idea how many times I've inserted a brand new drive in or on an HR. Each time I was thrilled by the DVR's performance...and each time that performance slowly diminished. Happens so slowly you hardly notice it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> First question I would have, "Have you waited long enough for those roll-in ads to reload onto the new drive?"
> 
> We've got an HR20/700 plagued with the same problem. This on recordings, too (not just live buffer). Workaround was to record that content from the low-def counterpart channel, avoiding those ads.
> 
> *I would certainly be heartened to hear of SSD eliminating these types of annoyances!*
> 
> I've found a larger percentage of annoyances of *all* HRs go away for the most part by recording and playback from the list, rather than live buffering of channels. Also pause the picture before doing anything else (such as viewing the guide).
> 
> Unfortunately, in our household I've only been able to "train" one person (other than myself) to use the DVR this way.
> 
> If something as simple as SSD would help remove these (and other) "annoyances," I'd think the possibility of a slightly happier household!
> 
> Please keep us posted.


You might find this interesting. I've always grumbled about the pixelations and audio breakups during Yankee games. Last night I was watching the game using the 44 and a pixie popped up. Dawned on I hadn't seen one on either of the HRs I've been using the last few days. Hadn't seen any audio drops either. Seeing the pixie caused me to check my weather app on my phone and there was bad weather surrounding my home, close and to the SW. Blamed the pixie on the weather and went downstairs to do laundry and turned on the 24, watched a couple innings and had no problems. Both HRs I used last night have SSDs on or in them. No pixies, no audio drops...on YES. A channel that always has pixelations and audio drops in my home.

Could sticking an SSD in an HR cure the pixelations and audio drops I've always seen and learned to live with? Could sticking an SSD in or on an HR suddenly allow the 24 to connect to the 44 correctly on my MRV system? Is this even possible?

Rich


----------



## Rich

videojanitor said:


> The drive was only a year old -- it was a 1TB WD Red.
> 
> I just decided to try an experiment -- I formatted the HDD mentioned above, and reinstalled it in place of the SSD. Thought this might be an interesting way to gather more anecdotal information as to whether or not the performance of these drives degrades over time, due to "junk" possibly accumulating. I've only had it running about 30 minutes, but so far, it seems about on par with what I was experiencing with the SSD. Guide and menu response feels about the same. I'll let this go for a few days and see if it begins to bog down. Might actually take weeks or months for that to happen ...


I have a 3TB Red drive in the 44. IIRC. Green drive was in the 24-200. Have to conclude both were shot even though both worked...which is the point I was trying to make in another post on this thread. If the software updates corrupt the HDDs in some way will they corrupt the SSDs?

I said in a post on this thread, "I know zilch about SSDs". That wasn't quite true, I understood going there are no moving parts in the SSDs, nothing is spinning and making noise. What I meant was I have absolutely no idea how they work and what to expect from them. First time I put one into a dock I didn't see what I expected to see. Then I find out they don't last as long as an HDD. Then I find out it's over capacity that wrecks SSDs. Yet another learning curve.

Rich


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## slice1900

Rich said:


> I have a 3TB Red drive in the 44. IIRC. Green drive was in the 24-200. Have to conclude both were shot even though both worked...which is the point I was trying to make in another post on this thread. If the software updates corrupt the HDDs in some way will they corrupt the SSDs?
> 
> I said in a post on this thread, "I know zilch about SSDs". That wasn't quite true, I understood going there are no moving parts in the SSDs, nothing is spinning and making noise. What I meant was I have absolutely no idea how they work and what to expect from them. First time I put one into a dock I didn't see what I expected to see. Then I find out they don't last as long as an HDD. Then I find out it's over capacity that wrecks SSDs. Yet another learning curve.
> 
> Rich


You know enough to try it out, I give you credit for that!

The only reason an SSD would give a noticeable performance boost is if latency matters - which is basically saying that Directv DVR drives "fragment" over time - and if so reformatting a DVR's drive should "fix" it.

The fact you've observed a big performance boost using an SSD, and not (I presume you've tested this?) with a reformatted drive that had become "slow" over time, says that latency matters. It shouldn't, that's IMHO ****ty programming on the part of Directv, but I imagine you aren't exactly surprised by that conclusion 

If they're storing a bunch of small files on the drive they should do so on another partition, but I guess when developers test this sort of stuff they'd only test it for a few days, not after months or years or using a DVR. That's what makes the difference.


----------



## b4pjoe

Here is sort of a good vs bad on SSD's:

SSD: Advantages and disadvantages of solid-state drive | Version Daily

And what not to do with an SSD:

6 Things You Shouldn't Do With Solid-State Drives


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> You know enough to try it out, I give you credit for that!
> 
> The only reason an SSD would give a noticeable performance boost is if latency matters - which is basically saying that Directv DVR drives "fragment" over time - and if so reformatting a DVR's drive should "fix" it.
> 
> The fact you've observed a big performance boost using an SSD, and not (I presume you've tested this?) with a reformatted drive that had become "slow" over time, says that latency matters. It shouldn't, that's IMHO ****ty programming on the part of Directv, but I imagine you aren't exactly surprised by that conclusion
> 
> If they're storing a bunch of small files on the drive they should do so on another partition, but I guess when developers test this sort of stuff they'd only test it for a few days, not after months or years or using a DVR. That's what makes the difference.


Figured a hard drive of any sort would work. Bought the SSDs on Amazon and would have returned them if they didn't work in the HRs. Learning now.

I've tried reformatted HDDs and new HDDs and HDDs that I've just wiped the content out of. New HDDs work the best but it's just a matter of time. I've been playing with HDDs since I got D* in 2002 and found the eSATA function. In short what I've found is simple. The HDDs slow down no matter what I do. I'm not planning on keeping any content on the SSD HRs, if what we're being told is true it's capacity that kills SSDs. But I will come back to this thread every month and comment on what I'm seeing. I can't believe the slowness won't creep back, yet another time I'll be happy if I'm wrong.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Here is sort of a good vs bad on SSD's:
> 
> SSD: Advantages and disadvantages of solid-state drive | Version Daily
> 
> And what not to do with an SSD:
> 
> 6 Things You Shouldn't Do With Solid-State Drives


Read both links, thanx. Not as bad as I thought. Capacity does appear to be key. Good to know.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> Read both links, thanx. Not as bad as I thought. Capacity does appear to be key. Good to know.
> 
> Rich


Even though the pages in those links appear to have been written several years ago, I thought there was some good info there.

(Especially for those new to the concept of SSD).


----------



## b4pjoe

I hooked up my new external SSD to the wife's HR24 and the screen is much quicker now with the SSD. I have had a new external traditional HD on this HR24 before too and the SSD drive is much quicker than the new traditional HDD was when it was hooked up.

SSD's only have so many read/writes in their life. I think the drive will die before you notice a slowdown like you see with a traditional HD.


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Figured a hard drive of any sort would work. Bought the SSDs on Amazon and would have returned them if they didn't work in the HRs. Learning now.
> 
> I've tried reformatted HDDs and new HDDs and HDDs that I've just wiped the content out of. New HDDs work the best but it's just a matter of time. I've been playing with HDDs since I got D* in 2002 and found the eSATA function. In short what I've found is simple. The HDDs slow down no matter what I do. I'm not planning on keeping any content on the SSD HRs, if what we're being told is true it's capacity that kills SSDs. But I will come back to this thread every month and comment on what I'm seeing. I can't believe the slowness won't creep back, yet another time I'll be happy if I'm wrong.
> 
> Rich


It isn't capacity that 'kills' SSDs it is the total amount of data written. The same amount of writing happens if you watch a program and delete it, versus watching a program and leaving it on the DVR and not deleting anything until the DVR hits 100% full and you need to make room for upcoming recordings (i.e. like how my dad used to run his Mediacom DVR) Letting an SSD get 100% full used to be a problem with early ones (i.e. ones that came out nearly a decade ago) but is no longer the case with any you can buy today. They all have a lot of spare space that's hidden so they are never truly full.

I wouldn't worry about a drive dying in a dual tuner DVR. Even if both tuners were writing 24x7 that's about 1.5 MB/sec or 129 GB per day. Not sure which model of drives you got, but a Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB is rated to last 9.4 years writing 100 GB per day, so a little over seven years at 129 GB per day. Kinda doubt you will still be using those HR24s by Christmas 2025  And that's if both tuners wrote 24x7 like on a Tivo, which I don't believe is the case for Directv DVRs. Also assumes that the drive only lasts as long as the rated lifetime, which is rarely the case - double or more is typical.


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Even though the pages in those links appear to have been written several years ago, I thought there was some good info there.
> 
> (Especially for those new to the concept of SSD).


Aww, I never looked at the date. Wonder if anything much changed.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> I hooked up my new external SSD to the wife's HR24 and the screen is much quicker now with the SSD. I have had a new external traditional HD on this HR24 before too and the SSD drive is much quicker than the new traditional HDD was when it was hooked up.
> 
> *SSD's only have so many read/writes in their life. I think the drive will die before you notice a slowdown like you see with a traditional HD.*


Brings me to the one major mistake I made. Should have bought the 500GB version. Would have saved about $100. I don't need a 1TB drive. Oops.

Got any clue as to how long that "life" might be? I don't and I'd really like to know.

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> It isn't capacity that 'kills' SSDs it is the total amount of data written. The same amount of writing happens if you watch a program and delete it, versus watching a program and leaving it on the DVR and not deleting anything until the DVR hits 100% full and you need to make room for upcoming recordings (i.e. like how my dad used to run his Mediacom DVR) Letting an SSD get 100% full used to be a problem with early ones (i.e. ones that came out nearly a decade ago) but is no longer the case with any you can buy today. They all have a lot of spare space that's hidden so they are never truly full.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about a drive dying in a dual tuner DVR. Even if both tuners were writing 24x7 that's about 1.5 MB/sec or 129 GB per day. Not sure which model of drives you got, but a Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB is rated to last 9.4 years writing 100 GB per day, so a little over seven years at 129 GB per day. Kinda doubt you will still be using those HR24s by Christmas 2025  And that's if both tuners wrote 24x7 like on a Tivo, which I don't believe is the case for Directv DVRs. Also assumes that the drive only lasts as long as the rated lifetime, which is rarely the case - double or more is typical.


And you just answered the question I just asked in another post. Thanx, this makes me feel much better.

Rich


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## Rich

Last night I turned on the game around 9 pm and quickly noticed that one second delay when using the 30 Second Skip on the 44. First thought was, "How could that drive get corrupted that quickly?" Then I figured the 44 had been sitting idle all day and was just sluggish (sounds odd, no? Happens to me all the time with 24s that rarely get used...they are sluggish and after a few minutes speed up.). But a 44 doing that? Didn't seem right. Gave it some time and tried the Skip again and got the same delay. Nuts, now it's behaving like a 24, why would that happen?

I had the game recorded on two other HRs and could not see any indications on the Playlist that would tell me which HR I was accessing on MRV. Then it dawned on me that it must be one of the 24s. Brought up the 44's Playlist and accessed the game. And the 30 Second Skip worked very well. What does this mean?

Well, first it means the Skip worked well on content recorded on an SSD. The 44 was playing its own content. Secondly, it means I'm always gonna see that one second delay on the 30 Second Skip when using the 44 to access content on 24s. I can live with that. All I use the 24s for is backup for the games. 

Now, can someone explain this? I can't. Is the 44 capable of using a SATA III SSD and getting everything out of it? Or is it just backward compatible? 

Rich


----------



## Rich

I watched last night's game on an HR24-200 and my HR44-700. Both have SSDs. I will record the game on a non-SSD 24 tonight and see what happens with that.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> Last night I turned on the game around 9 pm and quickly noticed that one second delay when using the 30 Second Skip on the 44. First thought was, "How could that drive get corrupted that quickly?" Then I figured the 44 had been sitting idle all day and was just sluggish (sounds odd, no? Happens to me all the time with 24s that rarely get used...they are sluggish and after a few minutes speed up.). But a 44 doing that? Didn't seem right. Gave it some time and tried the Skip again and got the same delay. Nuts, now it's behaving like a 24, why would that happen?
> 
> I had the game recorded on two other HRs and could not see any indications on the Playlist that would tell me which HR I was accessing on MRV. Then it dawned on me that it must be one of the 24s. Brought up the 44's Playlist and accessed the game. And the 30 Second Skip worked very well. What does this mean?
> 
> Well, first it means the Skip worked well on content recorded on an SSD. The 44 was playing its own content. Secondly, it means I'm always gonna see that one second delay on the 30 Second Skip when using the 44 to access content on 24s. I can live with that. All I use the 24s for is backup for the games.
> 
> *Now, can someone explain this? I can't. Is the 44 capable of using a SATA III SSD and getting everything out of it? Or is it just backward compatible? *
> 
> Rich


While I'm not qualified to answer the second part (blue highlight) I think I can make a long-winded statement about delay over the network.

When I first started using whole home, there wasn't much of a network delay. (This was between older HR2xs and an H25 receiver.)

Then the HR44 was added (mid 2015). This was like, "Wow!" I had almost instant control over even the most sluggish HR21 through the 44. It was almost better performance than being at the 21 itself. (And trickplay while viewing content from the HR20 to the HR44 was _superb_ - nearly instantaneous.)

However, over time (and _firmware_ updates to all the equipment) this access has slowed tremendously. To the point that 30SKIP is nearly mandatory for use over WH.

The upside to all this is having learned to "stack" those skips.

That delay gives you plenty of time to punch-in six quick ones for a full 3 min ad skip and several replays if you go too far.

(Of course, you'll need a lot more replay presses from the HR44 than you would need from an H/HR2x, where its only about a half-dozen to go back aprox 30sec - prob twice that for a 44.)

(For what it's worth, I've found that the delay is only moderate by comparison while viewing content from the HR44 through the H25 - pretty much perfect for remote viewing of ballgames using skip/replay.)


----------



## Rich

I just tried the 24-100 (normal HDD, just using MRV) with a game on. I accessed the 44's Playlist, brought a game up and I saw no delay on the 30 Second Skip. Then I went to the 44 and accessed the 24-200's Playlist. Got the one second delay. Seems like what's recorded on the 44 does not have the one second delay. Still need an explanation. I have tonight's game recorded on the 24-100 and will check that out tomorrow. 

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> Now, can someone explain this? I can't. Is the 44 capable of using a SATA III SSD and getting everything out of it? Or is it just backward compatible?


If you can open it, it may or may not identify the ports as either SATA I, II, or III. Not sure of any other way to tell on one of these devices.


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Is the 44 capable of using a SATA III SSD and getting everything out of it? Or is it just backward compatible?
> 
> Rich


I'm not sure if I understand your question. It doesn't matter whether the HR44 supports SATA III or not, even if it only supports SATA I (which it might if they were able to save a few pennies) it won't make a bit of difference in the performance of the SSD or the DVR itself.

The main difference between SATA I and SATA III is speed of the interface, going from 1.5 Gbps (150 MB/sec) to 6 Gbps (600 MB/sec) Given that a DVR is recording/playing HD programs that average about 6.5 Mbps (less than one MB per second) that increased speed is totally irrelevant.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I just tried the 24-100 (normal HDD, just using MRV) with a game on. I accessed the 44's Playlist, brought a game up and I saw no delay on the 30 Second Skip. Then I went to the 44 and accessed the 24-200's Playlist. Got the one second delay. *Seems like what's recorded on the 44 does not have the one second delay. Still need an explanation*. I have tonight's game recorded on the 24-100 and will check that out tomorrow.
> 
> Rich


Sorry I can't tell you *why*.

But I *can* say it's fairly certain that the former instantaneous behavior of HR2x as a _server_ has been diminished over time with firmware updates.

On the other hand, the serving capabilities (reaction time) of the *HR44* as a _server_ haven't diminished as badly.

I would also go so far as to say that the type of drive in _either_ unit most likely would have very _little_ to do with the diminished reaction response time of the HR2x as a server over the network.

Hope this makes some kind of sense.

In other words, I don't know _why_ HR2x have had their serving capabilities slowed down, but it is a fact that they have and that we just have to live with it (like crappy firmware).


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> If you can open it, it may or may not identify the ports as either SATA I, II, or III. Not sure of any other way to tell on one of these devices.


Anybody know when SATA III devices became available? I just googled that and got this: _The full 3.0 standard was released on *May 27, 2009*. _I kinda doubt that my 44 is SATA III capable based on that statement.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Sorry I can't tell you *why*.
> 
> But I *can* say it's fairly certain that the former instantaneous behavior of HR2x as a _server_ has been diminished over time with firmware updates.
> 
> On the other hand, the serving capabilities (reaction time) of the *HR44* as a _server_ haven't diminished as badly.
> 
> I would also go so far as to say that the type of drive in _either_ unit most likely would have very _little_ to do with the diminished reaction response time of the HR2x as a server over the network.
> 
> Hope this makes some kind of sense.
> 
> In other words, I don't know _why_ HR2x have had their serving capabilities slowed down, but it is a fact that they have and that we just have to live with it (like crappy firmware).


Well said. I understand and agree. Simply put, the 44 is a better DVR than any 24. Just works better.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> Anybody know when SATA III devices became available? I just googled that and got this: _The full 3.0 standard was released on *May 27, 2009*. _I kinda doubt that my 44 is SATA III capable based on that statement.
> 
> Rich


What is the drive inside the unit? 1.5, 3.0, or 6.0 Gbps. I would guess they put in a hard drive to match the specs of the sata ports. Putting in a later drive that ports are rated would be wasteful spending unless they get a really good deal on buying a lot of them.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> What is the drive inside the unit? 1.5, 3.0, or 6.0 Gbps. I would guess they put in a hard drive to match the specs of the sata ports. Putting in a later drive that ports are rated would be wasteful spending unless they get a really good deal on buying a lot of them.


I have no idea where the original HDD is that I took out of the 44. Seems like it doesn't matter.

Rich


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## technoarch

Rich, which enclosure are you using?


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> Rich, which enclosure are you using?


I'd give you a link but Thermaltake stopped making the docks. I have a few Thermaltake Black X docks. Work great with SSDs, PITA with an HDD. The dock I linked to should work. What are you thinking about doing?

Rich


----------



## technoarch

Rich said:


> I'd give you a link but Thermaltake stopped making the docks. I have a few Thermaltake Black X docks. Work great with SSDs, PITA with an HDD. The dock I linked to should work. What are you thinking about doing?
> 
> Rich


I think I am going with the Samsung 860 1TB paired with this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M0SLHJ1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> I think I am going with the Samsung 860 1TB paired with this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M0SLHJ1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


That's neat! Wish I had found it. Should work.

Rich


----------



## technoarch

Samsung 860 1TB and enclosure is up and running on the hr-54 with no issues to date. The system reboot time is crazy fast now. Response times have greatly improved over the old hr-44 and clients as well.


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> Samsung 860 1TB and enclosure is up and running on the hr-54 with no issues to date. The system reboot time is crazy fast now. Response times have greatly improved over the old hr-44 and clients as well.


And you will never be happy with a "normal" HR again.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Well it's been three weeks with the SSDs. No horrible problems yet. I did have a hard time deleting a 6 hour ballgame after deleting a few other 6 hour games. Took forever and I never saw the deletion take place. Had to reboot the 44 and then the ballgame was gone from the Playlist. This is something I've never seen. I won't delete that many programs again at one time. Had to be something with the SSD, as I said I've never seen that before.

I have found that if I record and watch a game on either HR (that has an SSD in/on it) I see very few delays when using the remote. When I access one SSD HR from the other one, I do see some delays...very short delays but they are there and are noticeable. So, I will try to watch content on the HR that actually recorded the content. That's not a problem. 

Biggest thing I see is something I don't see/hear. No audio or video breakups, no pixelations...AT ALL! On YES, one of the worst channels historically for those issues. I do see all those things from time to time and I know I'm contradicting myself but what I see I've been able to click back and see again. That tells me it's probably the broadcast, especially because I don't see anything that I can't replicate and that tells me that the rest of the sat signal delivery system is in proper order. In short, for reasons I can't explain, I'm getting a very stable picture and sound on YES for the first time in...forever? Nothing has changed except the drives in the two HRs. 

I am beginning to think the HDDs we have on/in our HRs are the cause of most of the problems we see in our pictures. What I am seeing now is the same stability of picture that I see on NetFlix and Amazon when streaming. On YES!!! Unreal.

Rich


----------



## technoarch

All is going well here with the same SSD as Rich but on a HR-54. The only issue I have seen is when playing on-demand content. The show starts SO fast that the receiver now has to catch up to the stream with a short buffer period then everything is good to go. This is on a 1000/1000 connection.


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> All is going well here with the same SSD as Rich but on a HR-54. The only issue I have seen is when playing on-demand content. The show starts SO fast that the receiver now has to catch up to the stream with a short buffer period then everything is good to go. This is on a 1000/1000 connection.


Much faster than before you put the SSD in, right? I don't use on demand, now I'm gonna have to try it and I don't remember one thing about on demand.

I forgot to mention the temperature in the boxes. Both the 24 and the 44 show 86 degrees as opposed to a 24-100 that shows 118 degrees. I think 86 is the lowest temp the HRs will display, not sure. In any event both HRs are running well.

Have any bad experiences with the external device? I might buy one because...you have one and now I want one.

Rich


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## slice1900

86F is 30C which I could definitely see being set as a lower limit for what the sensor would measure/output, since you don't care if it is lower than that.


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> 86F is 30C which I could definitely see being set as a lower limit for what the sensor would measure/output, since you don't care if it is lower than that.


Yup, that makes sense. Both boxes are a bit more than warm on the bottom. Warmer than I expected.

Rich


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## technoarch

Rich, enclosure works great.


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> Rich, enclosure works great.


Probably time to stop raving about them. We should focus on what's wrong with them. I like pros but I know I will learn more from cons...but I don't have any at the moment. Still early.

Have you checked the temperature on your 54? Probably 86 degrees. Here's something that bothers me, the bottom of the 24-200 is really warm, not enough to hurt but really warm. The 44's bottom is just warm. I'm kinda surprised by that, I thought they would be the same. Different DVRs, different temps I suppose.

Rich


----------



## technoarch

Temp on the 54 is around 118 degrees. I think the primary difference from the 44 is the power inserter for the LNB in integrated into the 54. As you know, the 44 has an outboard unit.

Clients like to hover in the 123 degree range.


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> Temp on the 54 is around 118 degrees. I think the primary difference from the 44 is the power inserter for the LNB in integrated into the 54. As you know, the 44 has an outboard unit.
> 
> Clients like to hover in the 123 degree range.


Got it. Didn't take that into consideration. Is 118 lower than it was before the SSD, if you happen to know?

I watched last night's game in Seattle. It was raining on and off all night. Not one instance of rain fade and from the weather map I should have seen something. Once again, no audio or video issues that could be related to the 44 itself. On YES. One of the worst channels for breakups and I have not seen any since I put the drives in. Simply amazing. So far. I gotta PM you...

Rich


----------



## technoarch

I have no idea on the normal 54 temp with the internal HDD in use. Almost immediately after the tech left from swapping out the 44 to the 54 I switched over the SSD. Zero video issues here except for a nice size thunderstorm that rolled through a few days ago.


----------



## Rich

videojanitor said:


> Thanks so much for the report. Based on your experience, I decided to order the 500GB version of that drive and will install it in my HR20. *I know we have seen all the evidence about how SSD will wear out quickly in a DVR*, but the HR20 is already quite long-in-the-tooth, so I'm not looking to get another ten years out of it. If the SSD gives me improved performance for just a few years, I'll consider that to be a win.


There will be link to an article that has some great info on SSDs and DVRs posted in a few days on this thread. Worth reading, not that I understood much but it was explained to me by the member that will post the link very clearly. I think we are looking at 2-3 years of good service. Do read the article.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Rich said:


> *I just ordered the 500GB version too for a very slow 24-200*. Should get that today and I'm gonna pop the box and put in with double sided heavy duty tape and make sure it is secured in that small sled by wire ties. The way the prices are falling for SSDs I might as well stick one in every HR I have. I'll put that thought on the back burner and see how well these two SSDs hold up before I go berserk. I'll give them a couple months and then make the decision.
> 
> Rich


That might be a hundred dollar mistake. From what I've learned I should have bought the $200 1TB version. The capacity makes a difference in SSDs. Larger SSDs in DVRs should last longer. Too bad the 2TBs cost so much. Take a look at the price of a 2TB SSD: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_....5-Inch+SATA+III+Internal+SSD+(MZ-75E1T0B/AM)

That would be over $400 with tax. Fair price, I paid $200 for the 1TB drive, but too much for me.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> So you used an external SSD via the esata connection? I was wondering if you get the full speed of the SSD with an external connector compared to it being installed internally?


Been almost a month with the SSD. I can't see how it could be any faster. I've never seen any difference in speed between external or internal drives.

Rich


----------



## Rich

I watched football games for seven hours yesterday then watched the Yankee game. Not one pixellation, not one audio drop did I see (Yup, "see". My Sony AVR's display is very noticeable when I get an audio drop). It was raining all day here and to the SW. Not even one I could try to replicate. Not on local channels, not on YES, not on NFL ST channels. Nothing! This never happens. Or never happened before the SSD.

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> That might be a hundred dollar mistake. From what I've learned I should have bought the $200 1TB version. The capacity makes a difference in SSDs. Larger SSDs in DVRs should last longer. Too bad the 2TBs cost so much. Take a look at the price of a 2TB SSD: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=electronics&field-keywords=Samsung+850+EVO+2TB+2.5-Inch+SATA+III+Internal+SSD+(MZ-75E1T0B/AM)
> 
> That would be over $400 with tax. Fair price, I paid $200 for the 1TB drive, but too much for me.
> 
> Rich


Do Directv DVRs record all the tuners all the time, even if they are turned 'off'? I think the answer is no, in which case so long as you turn off your DVR when you aren't using it I don't think you will ever have to worry about an SSD wearing out. Even in a dual tuner Tivo that is recording all the time it isn't going to be a real concern. I'd only worry about it in the 4 or 6 tuner Tivos, having 6 tuners recording 24x7 really adds up, especially since most cable systems are still using MPEG2 HD.

With Directv, unless their DVRs work differently than I believe, so long as you turn it off when you aren't using it you probably don't need to be concerned with the lifespan - it definitely isn't worth buying a larger one than you need to get a longer life. By the time it wore out the prices for the same size will have dropped so much you'll come out ahead.

I admit being slightly curious if an SSD would make my Bolt faster, but it is already so fast I don't know if any further speedup would be noticeable. I should probably check the Tivo forums, I'm sure someone has tried this...


----------



## technoarch

Using SSDs in DVRs - in Koherence

This is article Rich was referring to. Depending on the ACTUAL background tasks and remote d/l of video, etc we we should get ~2.5 to 3 years out of the drive Samsung 860 1TB SSD. The 860 1TB has a 600TBW limit. By then a newer, better, faster solution from DirecTV will be out.


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> Using SSDs in DVRs - in Koherence
> 
> This is article Rich was referring to. Depending on the ACTUAL background tasks and remote d/l of video, etc we we should get ~2.5 to 3 years out of the drive Samsung 860 1TB SSD. The 860 1TB has a 600TBW limit. By then a newer, better, faster solution from DirecTV will be out.


Thanx,

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Do Directv DVRs record all the tuners all the time, even if they are turned 'off'? I think the answer is no, in which case so long as you turn off your DVR when you aren't using it I don't think you will ever have to worry about an SSD wearing out. Even in a dual tuner Tivo that is recording all the time it isn't going to be a real concern. I'd only worry about it in the 4 or 6 tuner Tivos, having 6 tuners recording 24x7 really adds up, especially since most cable systems are still using MPEG2 HD.
> 
> With Directv, unless their DVRs work differently than I believe, so long as you turn it off when you aren't using it you probably don't need to be concerned with the lifespan - it definitely isn't worth buying a larger one than you need to get a longer life. By the time it wore out the prices for the same size will have dropped so much you'll come out ahead.
> 
> I admit being slightly curious if an SSD would make my Bolt faster, but it is already so fast I don't know if any further speedup would be noticeable. I should probably check the Tivo forums, I'm sure someone has tried this...


The HRs are never off. I had Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM drives on all 12 of my HRs at one time. All chattered incessantly. With the lights on or off on the front panel. Threw them all away and went to WD 5400RPM drives. Very little noise from them. Lost a lot of money there.

I did consider pulling the plug when the HRs with SSDs weren't being used, that's the only way I know of to actually shut them off. Then it became clear that 2-3 years of working well was what we could expect (I listen very closely to those who know far more than I do about any subject and *technoarch *explained how the SSDs would work very clearly) and I'm gonna take that as Gospel. In a couple years, if the SSDs work well, I'll be looking at bigger SSDs. By that time they shouldn't be nearly as expensive as they are now.

If you're satisfied with the speed of the TiVo why would you modify it? I was simply having a miserable experience with the 2 DVRs, I had to do something. But if you want to do it just for the hell of it, I get that. I'd like to hear what happens.

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> The HRs are never off. I had Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM drives on all 12 of my HRs at one time. All chattered incessantly. With the lights on or off on the front panel. Threw them all away and went to WD 5400RPM drives. Very little noise from them. Lost a lot of money there.


Chattering doesn't mean they were writing. Can you always access the live buffer on every tuner in a Directv DVR? i.e. if you just walk up to it, turn on the TV, can you rewind on whatever channel it was on? Can you switch tuners and rewind on the other channel? Is the same true when you turn on the DVR after it was "off"?


----------



## David Ortiz

Rich said:


> The HRs are never off.


If the buffer is always on, then you could try tuning to a channel that isn't in your package and then turning the DVR off.


----------



## mikek

Rich said:


> Well it's been three weeks with the SSDs. No horrible problems yet. I did have a hard time deleting a 6 hour ballgame after deleting a few other 6 hour games. Took forever and I never saw the deletion take place. Had to reboot the 44 and then the ballgame was gone from the Playlist. This is something I've never seen. I won't delete that many programs again at one time. Had to be something with the SSD, as I said I've never seen that before.
> 
> I have found that if I record and watch a game on either HR (that has an SSD in/on it) I see very few delays when using the remote. When I access one SSD HR from the other one, I do see some delays...very short delays but they are there and are noticeable. So, I will try to watch content on the HR that actually recorded the content. That's not a problem.
> 
> Biggest thing I see is something I don't see/hear. No audio or video breakups, no pixelations...AT ALL! On YES, one of the worst channels historically for those issues. I do see all those things from time to time and I know I'm contradicting myself but what I see I've been able to click back and see again. That tells me it's probably the broadcast, especially because I don't see anything that I can't replicate and that tells me that the rest of the sat signal delivery system is in proper order. In short, for reasons I can't explain, I'm getting a very stable picture and sound on YES for the first time in...forever? Nothing has changed except the drives in the two HRs.
> 
> I am beginning to think the HDDs we have on/in our HRs are the cause of most of the problems we see in our pictures. What I am seeing now is the same stability of picture that I see on NetFlix and Amazon when streaming. On YES!!! Unreal.
> 
> Rich


I just read this thread all at once so you might not remember that you changed the coax. That old coax may have been causing you some problems...just a guess


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Chattering doesn't mean they were writing. Can you always access the live buffer on every tuner in a Directv DVR? i.e. if you just walk up to it, turn on the TV, can you rewind on whatever channel it was on? Can you switch tuners and rewind on the other channel? Is the same true when you turn on the DVR after it was "off"?


What does chattering mean then? Serious question, have always thought it was doing that. I rarely use the buffers but on the 24s there is always a buffer on at least one tuner. Not sure about the 44 I have, think that treats buffers in a different manner. I can always access at least one buffer on a 24, no difference between having the 24 on or off...remember, there is no true "off". They are always doing something and they are alway ready to be used. Unless you unplug them, then you reach a true state of "off". I just turned on the 44, I saw a 3 hour buffer on the channel it was tuned to. Always on, always buffering, it would appear.

Rich


----------



## David Ortiz

Rich said:


> ... channel it was tuned to. Always on, always buffering, it would appear.


Which is why I mentioned tuning to a channel not in your package and then turning the DVR off. There shouldn't be any buffering going on in that case. If I had an SSD installed, I'd be doing that.


----------



## Rich

mikek said:


> I just read this thread all at once so you might not remember that you changed the coax. That old coax may have been causing you some problems...just a guess


When I suspect a cable is bad I dump it. I do the same thing with car batteries and milk. That coax is gone. What I fear is the breakups are caused by the TV set itself. I can make a case for that. I use a Samsung 65" JS8500 when viewing content on the 44 and a few weeks ago I had to have the One Connect Box replaced. That box is where all inputs to the TV are found. From the box one cable runs to the TV. Not much wire clutter, no HDMI inputs on the back of the set. But an obvious single point of failure, you lose the box and you can't use the TV set.

Had the box replaced and saw nothing wrong, but now I'm seeing things I think are related to what caused the box to be replaced. The sets becoming a PITA and Black Friday's around the corner, I'll probably replace the set, and let the PP deal with the 8500. If they can fix it I have a place for it, if they can't I'll get a replacement. But the 8500 is gonna have to taken out of the house and it will sit in a repair shop for God knows how long. Not gonna count on that thing much longer.

More simply, I haven't seen much of anything that I can blame on the SSD...so far.

Rich


----------



## Rich

David Ortiz said:


> Which is why I mentioned tuning to a channel not in your package and then turning the DVR off. There shouldn't be any buffering going on in that case. If I had an SSD installed, I'd be doing that.


I didn't understand your prior post, I got it now, I'll do that. Great suggestion.

Rich


----------



## technoarch

If you have "Genie Recommends" turned on then, yes, there will be constant d/l of content that is happening in the background. Also, the DVR is capturing new guide data, etc.


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> If you have "Genie Recommends" turned on then, yes, there will be constant d/l of content that is happening in the background. Also, the DVR is capturing new guide data, etc.


I told you about the Seagate Barracudas and their incessant "chattering". What causes that?

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> What does chattering mean then? Serious question, have always thought it was doing that. I rarely use the buffers but on the 24s there is always a buffer on at least one tuner. Not sure about the 44 I have, think that treats buffers in a different manner. I can always access at least one buffer on a 24, no difference between having the 24 on or off...remember, there is no true "off". They are always doing something and they are alway ready to be used. Unless you unplug them, then you reach a true state of "off". I just turned on the 44, I saw a 3 hour buffer on the channel it was tuned to. Always on, always buffering, it would appear.
> 
> Rich


Chattering in hard drives is typically thermal recalibrations. The tracks they are reading/writing are microns apart so even the slightest thermal expansion/contraction of the metal in the platters or the read/write arm can throw things off. Some models seem to have set a worst case behavior of doing those recals constantly, rather than just as needed.

I had a Seagate hard drive about a decade ago in my PC that drove me crazy with that chattering. My fix was to set something up so that if the drive was idle (no read/write in the past x seconds, can't remember was 'x' was but on the order of a minute or two I think) then I'd make it do a couple reads. After that the chattering was almost completely gone - I guess once in a while it really did lose thermal equilibrium and probably threw off an error when trying to read and needed a recal to get back "on track" so to speak.

Thanks for the info about the 24/44. So it sounds like the HR24 is always recording one tuner, but not both? I know there's no true off, which is why I put 'off' in quotes  Recording only one tuner instead of two nearly doubles the lifetime. Between the HRs maybe only writing one tuner, and the fact that SSDs almost always significantly overachieve their rated life lifetime, I still say there's no reason to worry about this.

If you want to get a hint as to how long you drive has to life in terms of its rated write life (which it will greatly outlive) then after you've had it running for three months or so pull it out and connect it to your PC. Download something that will show "S.M.A.R.T." data, like GSmartControl, and you can read the data off the drive. Different vendors have different names for the data you'd want, but if it isn't obvious you can post it here and one us can find the right field. If you've used up say 5% of the life in three months then you'd know it will exceed its rated life in five years (and probably last at least 10)


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Chattering in hard drives is typically thermal recalibrations. The tracks they are reading/writing are microns apart so even the slightest thermal expansion/contraction of the metal in the platters or the read/write arm can throw things off. Some models seem to have set a worst case behavior of doing those recals constantly, rather than just as needed.
> 
> I had a Seagate hard drive about a decade ago in my PC that drove me crazy with that chattering. My fix was to set something up so that if the drive was idle (no read/write in the past x seconds, can't remember was 'x' was but on the order of a minute or two I think) then I'd make it do a couple reads. After that the chattering was almost completely gone - I guess once in a while it really did lose thermal equilibrium and probably threw off an error when trying to read and needed a recal to get back "on track" so to speak.
> 
> Thanks for the info about the 24/44. So it sounds like the HR24 is always recording one tuner, but not both? I know there's no true off, which is why I put 'off' in quotes  Recording only one tuner instead of two nearly doubles the lifetime. Between the HRs maybe only writing one tuner, and the fact that SSDs almost always significantly overachieve their rated life lifetime, I still say there's no reason to worry about this.
> 
> If you want to get a hint as to how long you drive has to life in terms of its rated write life (which it will greatly outlive) then after you've had it running for three months or so pull it out and connect it to your PC. Download something that will show "S.M.A.R.T." data, like GSmartControl, and you can read the data off the drive. Different vendors have different names for the data you'd want, but if it isn't obvious you can post it here and one us can find the right field. If you've used up say 5% of the life in three months then you'd know it will exceed its rated life in five years (and probably last at least 10)


I think the only time a 24 can use two buffers is when you deliberately set it to "dual live buffers" (DLBs). I don't think there's any other way to have both buffers active. I've rarely used DLB mode. I can do the same thing with recorded content, rarely watch anything live anymore.

I did call Seagate about the chattering problem. Long time ago. I was actually buying the Barracuda drives on the Costco site. I think. I checked Amazon and see no Seagates on my order list. The Seagate guy I talked to told me the drives were "seeking". He then launched into an explanation of what goes on in an HDD...white noise to me, I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. I did understand when he said Seagate did not recommend any HDDs for DVRs. That led to more Seagate guys entering the conversation, all curious about their HDDs and DVRs. Long phone call but it was interesting...didn't help the chattering. Now I'm wondering how much those Seagate Barracudas cost me. I gotta try Costco, see if they have an order history such as Amazon's. Thinking about what went on back then I must have lost a lot of money. I just threw them out.

Good post, I understood it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

One month has passed since I put the SSD in the 44. Nothing bad has happened. Both the 44 and 24 are running well. Have not seen one audio problem that I could blame the SSDs for, same thing applies to video problems. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

I am going to fill up the 24-200's SSD starting today. We want to see what happens. I know what a full HDD does to a 24, slows it down quite a bit along with some other surprises.

*David Ortiz* suggested leaving both HRs with the SSDs on a channel that has no buffer. After giving that suggestion a lot of thought I decided to treat the SSDs as I would HDDs. If the SSDs fail, they fail. I do appreciate the suggestion.

Rich


----------



## David Ortiz

Rich said:


> I am going to fill up the 24-200's SSD starting today. We want to see what happens. I know what a full HDD does to a 24, slows it down quite a bit along with some other surprises.
> 
> *David Ortiz* suggested leaving both HRs with the SSDs on a channel that has no buffer. After giving that suggestion a lot of thought I decided to treat the SSDs as I would HDDs. If the SSDs fail, they fail. I do appreciate the suggestion.
> 
> Rich


You could use my suggestion on one of them and see if if makes a difference.


----------



## Rich

David Ortiz said:


> You could use my suggestion on one of them and see if if makes a difference.


I did try what you suggested. Kept forgetting to change the channel before shutting down the HRs for the night. Let me fill up the 24 and see what happens. After I finish that I'll try this again. Be nice if there was a way to get the HR to default to a particular channel when turned off...

Rich


----------



## Rich

The HR24-200 with the 500GB SSD mounted internally now has a full Playlist. I used it last night to watch the last few innings of the Yankees' game. No changes so far. It seems to be working as it did when the SSD was nearly empty. I'll let it run on full for a week and see what happens. So far, so good.

Rich


----------



## azarby

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread, but SSD's have a finite number of read and write cycles. Their life expectancy is designed for PC use, not as long term storage for servers or devices like DVRs. where there is a constant stream of activity. They may be good for short term use, but expect to have issues that require replacement once the cycle limits are approached.

OOPs, Sorry for the redundant info. I went back and saw that there were a few posts that address this issue.


----------



## James Long

"Short term" seems to be long enough to cover the life of the DVR.


----------



## Rich

azarby said:


> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread, but SSD's have a finite number of read and write cycles. Their life expectancy is designed for PC use, not as long term storage for servers or devices like DVRs. where there is a constant stream of activity. They may be good for short term use, but expect to have issues that require replacement once the cycle limits are approached.
> 
> OOPs, Sorry for the redundant info. I went back and saw that there were a few posts that address this issue.


Yup, we looked at the read/write cycles and it seems like we can expect a few years of service from the SSDs. But who knows? I do know this: Don't expect to get "good" performance from HDDs for as long as the HDDs last. What you end up with after a couple years is an HDD that works but has many problems, problems that we've been blaming on things other than the HDDs. Seems to me I should have been swapping out HDDs every couple years, not letting them run until I started getting storage errors. That's a mistake we all are making.

Rich


----------



## Rich

James Long said:


> "Short term" seems to be long enough to cover the life of the DVR.


I'd be surprised if they lasted that long. We'll see.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Two months in and no problems. I have filled the 24-200 to full and had no problems. What I see are two HRs that seem to run perfectly. I always have raved about the way the Apple TV streaming boxes work and now I have two HRs that are doing the same thing the ATVs do...just work well. But, I'm not doing much recording and what I do record is deleted immediately upon completion. I have no idea what would happen long term if I were to load up the SSDs and leave them like that. I have to admit I didn't like filling up the 500's SSD. That made me uncomfortable but nothing bad happened during the week it was full. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

A couple days ago I thought the SSD in the 24-200 had gone bad. I could not get the 24 to recognize every remote control command. The Power light on the HR would not blink as I pressed the button at times. Then, if I waited long enough, the command would be processed. I was watching a football game in the utility room because watching a football game on the 44 is not pleasant. I reset the 24. Didn't help. Got new batteries, didn't help. Had a few unused remotes in that room, tried them all. Same thing happened. Never had a problem like this. 

Had to blame it on the SSD. Been waiting for something to happen that I could blame on the SSD. Went back to the 44 upstairs, finished the game with the bottom half of the screen blacked out by the Black Shroud and went to bed hoping that somehow the problem would disappear in the morning. Didn't happen, nothing changed. Took the 24 apart, removed the SSD and put the HDD back in. Booted up the 24 and started watching another game. The 24 still had the same problem. Oh, goody. Not the SSD. Made the call to ATT Retention and I should have a replacement in a couple days. Took the 24-200 that I just got as a replacement for a bad 24-500 and put the SSD in a dock on it. Booted right up and I watched the same game with no problem at all. Not the SSD's fault. 

Two HRs go bad within 2 weeks. What are the odds?

The 1TB SSDs like the one I have on the 44 are now selling at ~ $143. They might drop some more next week when the Black Friday sales begin. 

Let me throw this out there, it makes me wonder: I have a thread running about the Amazon Cube. I was told that I could use an Echo device in the same manner as the Cube. The day the remote command problem started I was trying to get an Echo device to work in my utility room that would do the same things a Cube would do on that TV/AVR system. That didn't go well and I was on the phone with an Amazon CSR that was trying to help me. I was struggling and so was he. I had found a section in the Alexa app that told me I could control an HR with a Cube. We decided to try that. Turns out you can only control a 44, 54 or 17 with an Echo device. And you can only control a Smart TV with an Echo device. I really should have read the complete section that I found. Could not control anything in that room but a few apps. Not the HR, not the TV set, which is a 1080p plasma, not a Smart TV. But I tried to make the connection to the 24 several times and I did see the Power light on the front panel blink several times. With me so far?

Could doing what I did to the 24 have corrupted it to the extent that I could not get the remote to work properly? I have never had that problem. That was the first time I tried to "pair" a 24 with an Echo device. Was that why it happened, why I had to get the 24 replaced? Is that even possible?

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> A couple days ago I thought the SSD in the 24-200 had gone bad. I could not get the 24 to recognize every remote control command. The Power light on the HR would not blink as I pressed the button at times. Then, if I waited long enough, the command would be processed. I was watching a football game in the utility room because watching a football game on the 44 is not pleasant. I reset the 24. Didn't help. Got new batteries, didn't help. Had a few unused remotes in that room, tried them all. Same thing happened. Never had a problem like this.
> 
> Had to blame it on the SSD. Been waiting for something to happen that I could blame on the SSD. Went back to the 44 upstairs, finished the game with the bottom half of the screen blacked out by the Black Shroud and went to bed hoping that somehow the problem would disappear in the morning. Didn't happen, nothing changed. Took the 24 apart, removed the SSD and put the HDD back in. Booted up the 24 and started watching another game. The 24 still had the same problem. Oh, goody. Not the SSD. Made the call to ATT Retention and I should have a replacement in a couple days. Took the 24-200 that I just got as a replacement for a bad 24-500 and put the SSD in a dock on it. Booted right up and I watched the same game with no problem at all. Not the SSD's fault.
> 
> Two HRs go bad within 2 weeks. What are the odds?
> 
> The 1TB SSDs like the one I have on the 44 are now selling at ~ $143. They might drop some more next week when the Black Friday sales begin.
> 
> Let me throw this out there, it makes me wonder: I have a thread running about the Amazon Cube. I was told that I could use an Echo device in the same manner as the Cube. The day the remote command problem started I was trying to get an Echo device to work in my utility room that would do the same things a Cube would do on that TV/AVR system. That didn't go well and I was on the phone with an Amazon CSR that was trying to help me. I was struggling and so was he. I had found a section in the Alexa app that told me I could control an HR with a Cube. We decided to try that. Turns out you can only control a 44, 54 or 17 with an Echo device. And you can only control a Smart TV with an Echo device. I really should have read the complete section that I found. Could not control anything in that room but a few apps. Not the HR, not the TV set, which is a 1080p plasma, not a Smart TV. But I tried to make the connection to the 24 several times and I did see the Power light on the front panel blink several times. With me so far?
> 
> Could doing what I did to the 24 have corrupted it to the extent that I could not get the remote to work properly? I have never had that problem. That was the first time I tried to "pair" a 24 with an Echo device. Was that why it happened, why I had to get the 24 replaced? Is that even possible?
> 
> Rich


My remote does that daily now. Refuses commands for a couple of minutes and then it works without a problem. Others have also reported that their remote hangs up but it is not the remote, it is the software in the machines.
I reset my HR24 every Sunday when I come to the Den and it does not seem to make a difference.


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> My remote does that daily now. Refuses commands for a couple of minutes and then it works without a problem. Others have also reported that their remote hangs up but it is not the remote, it is the software in the machines.
> I reset my HR24 every Sunday when I come to the Den and it does not seem to make a difference.


It got to the point where the remote was useless. Pretty sure it was the 24 at fault. But did I cause that?

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

My wife is having the same issue on her HR24 and it is using an external SSD. Tried 2 different remotes and still have the same issue. Interesting that the fix is a replacement HR24. Guess I need to call them.


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> It got to the point where the remote was useless. Pretty sure it was the 24 at fault. But did I cause that?
> 
> Rich


I do not think it is possible for you to cause it.


----------



## 242424

jimmie57 said:


> *My remote does that daily now. Refuses commands for a couple of minutes and then it works without a problem.* Others have also reported that their remote hangs up but it is not the remote, it is the software in the machines.
> I reset my HR24 every Sunday when I come to the Den and it does not seem to make a difference.


Same here on my HR24


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> I do not think it is possible for you to cause it.


Remember the door chime war I waged with a neighbor a couple years ago? Would you have thought that could have stopped my cars ability to respond to the key fob commands? Only reason I mentioned what I did with the Cube and the 24 was the Power light blinked a couple times when I was trying to get the Cube to control the 24. It blinked. The attempt failed and the remote got goofy. Maybe a coincidence. I have no idea why that happened.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> My wife is having the same issue on her HR24 and it is using an external SSD. Tried 2 different remotes and still have the same issue. Interesting that the fix is a replacement HR24. Guess I need to call them.


Does it get so bad you give up and use another DVR? That's how bad it was the other night.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> My wife is having the same issue on her HR24 and it is using an external SSD. Tried 2 different remotes and still have the same issue. Interesting that the fix is a replacement HR24. Guess I need to call them.


I cannot blame the SSD. I took the SSD out of the 24 and hooked up the internal drive again. Nothing changed. I made the call for a replacement and put another 24-200 in its place. I have seen no similar problems with the 24 I put in its place and I have the SSD in a dock on that. I watched the whole Monday night football game on the 24 and had no remote issues.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> Does it get so bad you give up and use another DVR? That's how bad it was the other night.
> 
> Rich


My wife gets pretty upset about it but no she doesn't go to another DVR or TV. It isn't the SSD though. I put that on there because the screen display of the menus was sluggish and it helped with that. This problem is you press a button on the remote and nothing happens at all or there is a long delay. Probably about 3 seconds but it seems forever. Once it finally gets the signal from the remote the screen display is fine.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> My wife gets pretty upset about it but no she doesn't go to another DVR or TV. It isn't the SSD though. I put that on there because the screen display of the menus was sluggish and it helped with that. This problem is you press a button on the remote and nothing happens at all or there is a long delay. Probably about 3 seconds but it seems forever. Once it finally gets the signal from the remote the screen display is fine.


I'm not sure what I went thru had anything to do with the problems others are seeing. I could not use the HR. Nothing I did made it any better. Changed batteries, changed remotes, finally put another HR in its place and haven't seen the problem since. Don't know what else I could have done. The next night, Monday, I watched the Giants-49ers game. I beat a remote up during a football game and I saw no problems with the remote.

Rich


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## cypherx

My HR24-200 is terrible with lag. Even did the clearmybox search and multiple reboots to clean out all guide data. Its so terrible I had my inlaws use the cable box (Pace RNG110) when they were here a few weeks ago and stayed in that room.

I have a Samsung 860 Pro 256GB SSD I'm going to try this weekend as a test (its borrowed, not mine). If it substantially makes the experience better, I'll consider a 500GB for this. Most recording is done on our HR44-700, so capacity isn't as high on the list (I remember having a 160GB DVR from the cable company in 2008). 

For the HR44 I would consider a 2TB drive if the price comes down a bit. It already has a 1TB drive so I would want to upgrade the capacity if I was spending any money on it.


----------



## cypherx

Ok I had the Samsung 860 Pro 256 GB installed for about 4 hours. It appears most of the high resolution logos and graphics downloaded, as well as on demand assets. It’s like night and day. This HR24-200 feels like new. It’s on par, if not better than a C61 client, which is remarkable for an 8+ year old machine. Just like a computer, the biggest bang for the buck, most impactful and felt upgrade was an SSD. Even the start over feature works (rarely ever worked before). Menus move fast and I can even have scrolling effects on (needed to turn that off before). 

I can’t imagine what an SSD does on a newer machine like a genie. I’m sure it makes a huge impact on client performance as well, assuming all the additional read and writes from various tuners. I really would like to save up for a 2TB drive for the HR44. This really makes it operate almost as fast as cable, and I’m sure the Genie with an SSD is pretty darn close to the quick channel changes of cable. 

The only thing that was annoying was setting up favorites again. Choosing “channels I get” as a starting point added in way too many channels I don’t get... but I got it all sorted out. If I upgrade the HR44, I would install the new drive to allow the system to format it, then put both old and new drives in a PC and boot from a Linux live CD that has xfs tools to copy the data from the source drive to the new larger drive.


----------



## Rich

cypherx said:


> Ok I had the Samsung 860 Pro 256 GB installed for about 4 hours. It appears most of the high resolution logos and graphics downloaded, as well as on demand assets. It's like night and day. This HR24-200 feels like new. It's on par, if not better than a C61 client, which is remarkable for an 8+ year old machine. Just like a computer, the biggest bang for the buck, most impactful and felt upgrade was an SSD. Even the start over feature works (rarely ever worked before). Menus move fast and I can even have scrolling effects on (needed to turn that off before).
> 
> *I can't imagine what an SSD does on a newer machine like a genie.* I'm sure it makes a huge impact on client performance as well, assuming all the additional read and writes from various tuners. I really would like to save up for a 2TB drive for the HR44. This really makes it operate almost as fast as cable, and I'm sure the Genie with an SSD is pretty darn close to the quick channel changes of cable.
> 
> The only thing that was annoying was setting up favorites again. Choosing "channels I get" as a starting point added in way too many channels I don't get... but I got it all sorted out. If I upgrade the HR44, I would install the new drive to allow the system to format it, then put both old and new drives in a PC and boot from a Linux live CD that has xfs tools to copy the data from the source drive to the new larger drive.


You can't imagine and I don't have the words to describe how well my 44 works now. Keep watching the 24 and you will see how rare it is to see any problems. Problems we thought we'd have to live with. Rain fade you can't get away from. I haven't seen any pixies that weren't caused by weather since I put the SSDs in. The audio drops have stopped. I've always had problems with YES and their broadcasts. Had no problems after I made the change. Watching YES is like watching a program on NF using an ATV box...no issues at all as a rule.

Consider what I've said about the size of the SSDs and how long they last. The larger the drive, the longer it should last. I would not put anything smaller than a 1TB SSD in/on an HR. I made the mistake, I bought a 500GB SSD. I learned.

Rich


----------



## cypherx

Well for this test, the 256GB in the HR24, I loaded it with 9 hours and 8 minutes of HD recordings and its at 81% free space. Trick play in these recordings are instant. I re-entered keyword 30SKIP and its like the instant you push the button its playing the video 30 seconds away. What feels faster is when you change channels, there is always some kind of delay in processing (older CPU) but its like the video appears much faster than it ever has on an HR24.

In my case this HR24 is mostly for spare room viewing and an occasional recording if the tuners are tied up on the HR44. Space is not a concern, I could live with 256GB, but you do make a point about longevity. It isn't used much, so there is a pro, but prices keep coming down so one day it will be trivial to put a larger drive in these DVR's. Especially since the HR24 is now over 8 years old, how many more years do I expect to get out of it? It's not on its original drive as it was (I had a 250GB laptop drive in there to get me by for the last year and a half - Seagate Momentus 5400.6). Right now the HR24 System Info says the internal temp is 86 degrees F.

I will watch the 2TB SSD prices and when comfortable with it, upgrade the HR44.


----------



## Rich

cypherx said:


> Well for this test, the 256GB in the HR24, I loaded it with 9 hours and 8 minutes of HD recordings and its at 81% free space. Trick play in these recordings are instant. I re-entered keyword 30SKIP and its like the instant you push the button its playing the video 30 seconds away. What feels faster is when you change channels, there is always some kind of delay in processing (older CPU) but its like the video appears much faster than it ever has on an HR24.
> 
> In my case this HR24 is mostly for spare room viewing and an occasional recording if the tuners are tied up on the HR44. Space is not a concern, I could live with 256GB, but you do make a point about longevity. It isn't used much, so there is a pro, but prices keep coming down so one day it will be trivial to put a larger drive in these DVR's. Especially since the HR24 is now over 8 years old, how many more years do I expect to get out of it? It's not on its original drive as it was (I had a 250GB laptop drive in there to get me by for the last year and a half - Seagate Momentus 5400.6). Right now the HR24 System Info says the internal temp is 86 degrees F.
> 
> I will watch the 2TB SSD prices and when comfortable with it, upgrade the HR44.


I don't think how much an HR is actually used makes a lot of difference. When I was using Seagate Barracudas in my HRs they were constantly "chattering". Whether they were being used or not. From what I've read and heard, the chattering is the drive reading and writing. When I had the Seagates I called them and asked what I could do about what I called chattering. I was told it wasn't chattering, it was "searching". Not much can be done according to them. The Cudas were all 7200RPM drives, I switched to WD 5400RPM drives and the chattering went away for the most part. I have the impression the drives are always "searching". And that's what eventually kills them.

I did load up the 500GB SSD for about a week. Had it totally full and saw no problems. Do that to a 24 and all you'll have is problems. I almost pulled the trigger on the 1TB Samsung drive this morning. Down to $124 but I'm gonna wait til it gets to $100. I'll put the 500 on a refurb 24-500 I just got and let that run. See what happens.

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> I would not put anything smaller than a 1TB SSD in/on an HR. I made the mistake, I bought a 500GB SSD. I learned.


Have you taken that 500 GB drive out and hooked it to a PC to run SMART diagnostics on it to see how much its wear indicator shows? I still think you will not have a problem with drive failure on the 500 GB size during the life of that 24.


----------



## cypherx

The Crucial MX500 2TB drive is on sale for $208 at Amazon today. Tempting but still a bit of money to spend.

The datasheet for that line of drives shows this endurance:

Endurance 250GB drive: 100TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 54GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 42.99

500GB drive: 180TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 98GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 64.99

1TB drive: 360TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 197GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 139.99

2TB drive: 700TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 383GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 208.99


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Have you taken that 500 GB drive out and hooked it to a PC to run SMART diagnostics on it to see how much its wear indicator shows? I still think you will not have a problem with drive failure on the 500 GB size *during the life of that 24*.


The 500GB SSD is on it's second 24. The first 24 expired because it would not receive remote commands. I don't think the SSD caused that. Have I put the SSD on a computer and run the SMART diagnosis? No.

Rich


----------



## Rich

cypherx said:


> The Crucial MX500 2TB drive is on sale for $208 at Amazon today. Tempting but still a bit of money to spend.
> 
> The datasheet for that line of drives shows this endurance:
> 
> Endurance 250GB drive: 100TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 54GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 42.99
> 
> 500GB drive: 180TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 98GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 64.99
> 
> 1TB drive: 360TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 197GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 139.99
> 
> 2TB drive: 700TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 383GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 208.99


That's about what I paid for the 1TB Samsung SSD 3 months ago. Sure would be nice to see the 2TB drive drop like the 1TB did. Have patience.

Rich


----------



## slice1900

cypherx said:


> The Crucial MX500 2TB drive is on sale for $208 at Amazon today. Tempting but still a bit of money to spend.
> 
> The datasheet for that line of drives shows this endurance:
> 
> Endurance 250GB drive: 100TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 54GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 42.99
> 
> 500GB drive: 180TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 98GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 64.99
> 
> 1TB drive: 360TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 197GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 139.99
> 
> 2TB drive: 700TB Total Bytes Written (TBW), equal to 383GB per day for 5 years Amazon price: 208.99


I can't remember now if we established that the HR24 is always recording to both tuners 24x7 or not. If it does, that's about 50 TB per year worst case, and given that the measured endurance of most drives is 2-3x the rated spec even that 250 GB drive would likely outlive the HR24 you put it in.


----------



## cypherx

slice1900 said:


> I can't remember now if we established that the HR24 is always recording to both tuners 24x7 or not. If it does, that's about 50 TB per year worst case, and given that the measured endurance of most drives is 2-3x the rated spec even that 250 GB drive would likely outlive the HR24 you put it in.


Wow your right. I found a mbps over time calculator online. Assuming high like 18mbps, it would take 35 weeks to approach 50TB. and the smallest drive is saying 54TB PER DAY. Yeah DAY.

Lets say its an HR44/54 and all 6 tuners are recording 9mbps, so thats 54mbps. It would take 11.6803 weeks to get to 50TB, or 12.6147 weeks to approach the 54TB per DAY limit that Crucial is saying. 54TB times 5 years is 98604 TB written. These things are getting pretty good. I wouldn't trust a spinning disk that long.


----------



## slice1900

cypherx said:


> Wow your right. I found a mbps over time calculator online. Assuming high like 18mbps, it would take 35 weeks to approach 50TB. and the smallest drive is saying 54TB PER DAY. Yeah DAY.
> 
> Lets say its an HR44/54 and all 6 tuners are recording 9mbps, so thats 54mbps. It would take 11.6803 weeks to get to 50TB, or 12.6147 weeks to approach the 54TB per DAY limit that Crucial is saying. 54TB times 5 years is 98604 TB written. These things are getting pretty good. I wouldn't trust a spinning disk that long.


Your math is off by three orders of magnitude here, those per day limits are in GB not TB! And the Genie has five tuners not six (and I'm almost positive they aren't all recording 24x7 like a Tivo) and Directv's HD channels average more like 6.5 - 8 Mbps not 9.


----------



## Rich

cypherx said:


> Wow your right. I found a mbps over time calculator online. Assuming high like 18mbps, it would take 35 weeks to approach 50TB. and the smallest drive is saying 54TB PER DAY. Yeah DAY.
> 
> Lets say its an HR44/54 and all 6 tuners are recording 9mbps, so thats 54mbps. It would take 11.6803 weeks to get to 50TB, or 12.6147 weeks to approach the 54TB per DAY limit that Crucial is saying. 54TB times 5 years is 98604 TB written. These things are getting pretty good. I wouldn't trust a spinning disk that long.


I paid about the same price for the 1TB drive only 3 months ago. I should have waited. Seems obvious now, but at the time...

How long would you trust an HDD? I think 5 years is way too long. Based on what I've experienced, we should have been swapping them out long before 5 years. They don't die, they keep running and the performance gets worse and worse. You stick an SSD in an HR and you're gonna see a difference immediately. Not only in speed but the audio drops and pixelations are practically nonexistent. Nothing we can do about rain fade but aside from that, I see no picture breakups on any channel. It's like watching a NF stream on an Apple TV. Very few problems.

Rich


----------



## cypherx

slice1900 said:


> Your math is off by three orders of magnitude here, those per day limits are in GB not TB! And the Genie has five tuners not six (and I'm almost positive they aren't all recording 24x7 like a Tivo) and Directv's HD channels average more like 6.5 - 8 Mbps not 9.


I thought I read TB not GB per day in Crucial's data sheet. Though I checked a Samsung 860 pro warranty and it's guaranteed on TBW over the life of the drive.










I guess one would have to do the math on how long does it take for an HR24 or HR44/54 to write one TB.

But I do suspect it's more likely a power supply or fan will fail before an SSD drive. I've lost many mechanical drives over the years in PC's, servers and even the HR24. Anything with moving mechanical parts are just bound to fail, especially with tight tolerances in modern hard drives and the heat/ cool cycle some systems experience that are not powered on 24/7.

In my experience I've seen more Seagate drives fail, followed by HGST and then finally Western Digital. I've seen drives in storage arrays go by big name companies like Dell/EMC, and all the way down to a family or friend reaching out to me about their personal laptop or computer.


----------



## cypherx

I'm not sure how to calculate how long it takes an HR to write 1 TB. I've googled and some think 1TB is equal to 500 hours of recorded mpeg4 HD, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

I found this website which is more for security camera DVR's but here are the parameters I used for 365 days.


----------



## slice1900

Unless someone has an SSD that keeps a running total of the amount of data written to it that's accessible via SMART, the only way would be to stick an SSD into a DVR for at least six months, then connect it to a PC to read the SMART data and look at the wear/lifetime indication.

Just to clarify, while the SSD isn't mechanical the fact NAND flash "wears out" is a physical process just like the wear on the bearings in a hard drive or fan. However, a hard drive fails due to the electronics in the controller or the read/write head failing more often than mechanical issues and obviously SSDs have electronics (far more complex than a hard drive's) in their controller so an SSD could die in a few months just like a hard drive can. Not all failures will wait years until the flash cells wear out and can no longer be erased.


----------



## am3211

I just plowed through this whole thread and have decided to make this upgrade after the rave reviews of everyone's results. There are a lot of references to different docking stations and different brands of SSD drives. I currently have two Thermaltake docking stations and have been very pleased with there performance but they are not compatible with SSD drives.

What would be the current recommendation for a one TB SSD and a compatible docking station?


----------



## Rich

am3211 said:


> I just plowed through this whole thread and have decided to make this upgrade after the rave reviews of everyone's results. There are a lot of references to different docking stations and different brands of SSD drives. I currently have two Thermaltake docking stations and have been very pleased with there performance but they are not compatible with SSD drives.
> 
> What would be the current recommendation for a one TB SSD and a compatible docking station?


I'm still using my Thermaltake docks. There are a few posts in this thread about available docks. Just make sure you see the eSATA port on the dock. Just like the port on the back of your docks. The SSDs I use seem to be one of the more popular drives at this moment. All that info is in posts on this thread.

Rich


----------



## Rich

cypherx said:


> I'm not sure how to calculate how long it takes an HR to write 1 TB. *I've googled and some think 1TB is equal to 500 hours of recorded mpeg4 HD*, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


That's the accepted estimate, varies by content.

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> That's the accepted estimate, varies by content.
> 
> Rich


I have 20 items recorded on my HR24 which I believe has a 500 Gb size drive in it.
The 20 items total 40.98 hours of time and are taking up 29% of the drive ( 71% free ).
If I filled the drive at the rate as just posted it would have 141 hours of programming on it.
I think it is advertised as 100 hours of HD. Several of the items are probably 720p and the rest are 1080i and that is possible what makes the total if full more than the advertised 100 hours of HD storage.

I think the Genies were advertised as having 200 hours of HD storage.


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> I have 20 items recorded on my HR24 which I believe has a 500 Gb size drive in it.
> The 20 items total 40.98 hours of time and are taking up 29% of the drive ( 71% free ).
> If I filled the drive at the rate as just posted it would have 141 hours of programming on it.
> I think it is advertised as 100 hours of HD. Several of the items are probably 720p and the rest are 1080i and that is possible what makes the total if full more than the advertised 100 hours of HD storage.
> 
> I think the Genies were advertised as having 200 hours of HD storage.


Might have been 400 hours, been a long time since this was a discussion. The original HRs were rated at something like 40-50 hours with the 320GB drives in them. But that was based on MPEG2, IIRC. Relying on "IIRC" coming from me...too many drunk nights, too , many brain cells obliterated.

Yes, the 24s came with 500GB drives.

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> Might have been 400 hours, been a long time since this was a discussion. The original HRs were rated at something like 40-50 hours with the 320GB drives in them. But that was based on MPEG2, IIRC. Relying on "IIRC" coming from me...too many drunk nights, too , many brain cells obliterated.
> 
> Yes, the 24s came with 500GB drives.
> 
> Rich


I know nothing about the MPEGs.


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> I know nothing about the MPEGs.


All _I think_ I know is MPEG2 gives us a better picture and takes up twice the capacity of a drive compared to MPEG4. If D* had put bigger drives in the HRs we could have had a better picture all these years. _I think_...

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> All _I think_ I know is MPEG2 gives us a better picture and takes up twice the capacity of a drive compared to MPEG4. If D* had put bigger drives in the HRs we could have had a better picture all these years. _I think_...


There's no reason MPEG2 should give you a better picture, I'm not sure why you think that? MPEG4 was designed later when there was more computing power available to compress things further at the SAME image quality. And HEVC even more so.

The way it is used can vary wildly (e.g. Comcast's super crappy picture in DOCSIS 3.1 areas since they allocate less than half the bit rate per HD channel compared to Directv) but Directv's MPEG2 SD pictures provide a good example of how low PQ can go if you don't give it enough bit rate. By comparison, DVD discs show that MPEG2 SD can look pretty damn nice (better than Comcast's MPEG4 HD channels) thanks to a comparatively high bit rate.


----------



## Rich

Rich said:


> Might have been 400 hours, been a long time since this was a discussion. The original HRs were rated at something like 40-50 hours with the 320GB drives in them. But that was based on MPEG2, IIRC. Relying on "IIRC" coming from me...too many drunk nights, too , many brain cells obliterated.
> 
> Yes, the 24s came with 500GB drives.
> 
> Rich


I have to amend the above. I was thinking about 2TB drives.

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> There's no reason MPEG2 should give you a better picture, I'm not sure why you think that? MPEG4 was designed later when there was more computing power available to compress things further at the SAME image quality. And HEVC even more so.
> 
> The way it is used can vary wildly (e.g. Comcast's super crappy picture in DOCSIS 3.1 areas since they allocate less than half the bit rate per HD channel compared to Directv) but Directv's MPEG2 SD pictures provide a good example of how low PQ can go if you don't give it enough bit rate. By comparison, DVD discs show that MPEG2 SD can look pretty damn nice (better than Comcast's MPEG4 HD channels) thanks to a comparatively high bit rate.


Do you remember D*'s transition from MPEG2 to MPEG4? Wasn't PQ mentioned?


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Do you remember D*'s transition from MPEG2 to MPEG4? Wasn't PQ mentioned?


I don't recall, but bandwidth constraints would be the main reason for any PQ differences. Even today Directv has serious bandwidth constraints on Ku, which is used for all their MPEG2 SD channels, which is one of the if the THE reason why the MPEG2 SD duplicates have such poor PQ when compared to the SD duplicates of Dish or most cable providers - whether MPEG2 or MPEG4.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

I think the concern here isn't so much writing to _capacity_, as it is the fact that the DVR is usually writing constantly to the drive (even when the HR is "off").

In the case of an HR2x, one could probably estimate a daily data rate based on whatever "channel" the HR2x was left on, such as HD, SD or even a music or test channel, _plus_ recordings. (As we all know, on these DVRs the buffer usually stays on.)

That "estimate" obviously would not include guide or other data.

I don't think the genies leave a buffer running for whatever that's worth (unless someone leaves a mini-client, or the genie itself "on."

At any rate, these "fears" will not dissuade me from trying an SSD in the dock as soon as I get my current drives "watched-down." (Unless Rich starts reporting massive failures within the next couple of weeks.)


----------



## Rich

cypherx said:


> I'm not sure how to calculate how long it takes an HR to write 1 TB. I've googled and some think 1TB is equal to 500 hours of recorded mpeg4 HD, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


Had some time to give this subject some more thought. If a 1TB drive was good for 500 hours that would mean a 2TB drive would be good for 1,000 hours. That's not true. A 2TB will do an easy 400 hours and probably go towards 500 hours, never quite reaching that number. That would set a 1TB drive at about 200 hours. There is no "accurate" number, it will vary by content. Been a long time since we had a discussion about this, sorry for any confusion.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I think the concern here isn't so much writing to _capacity_, as it is the fact that the DVR is usually writing constantly to the drive (even when the HR is "off").
> 
> In the case of an HR2x, one could probably estimate a daily data rate based on whatever "channel" the HR2x was left on, such as HD, SD or even a music or test channel, _plus_ recordings. (As we all know, on these DVRs the buffer usually stays on.)
> 
> That "estimate" obviously would not include guide or other data.
> 
> I don't think the genies leave a buffer running for whatever that's worth (unless someone leaves a mini-client, or the genie itself "on."
> 
> At any rate, these "fears" will not dissuade me from trying an SSD in the dock as soon as I get my current drives "watched-down." (*Unless Rich starts reporting massive failures within the next couple of weeks.*)


I kinda doubt that will happen (furiously knocking on wood). I'm a very pessimistic person and saying something like that bothers me but they're running so well that I'm gonna get another SSD for another 24 as soon as the 1TBs hit $100, I have one Thermaltake dock left and I might as well use it.

Rich


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## Delroy E Walleye

I should've added to my post above that I think our concern with capacity is more based on the theory of a longer life span (in other words, not as many re-write cycles for a larger drive rather than how much it actually holds).

As I'm watching down my HDD material I've also come to the realization that for storage 1TB is already more content than I really have that much time to watch!

So I'll probably be starting smaller (at least with the HR2x.)

IMO the "real" value is in the performance and time savings not having to wait so long for commands to be fulfilled. To me would _still_ be worth it if the SSD only lasted a year or so and just drop another one in the dock!


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I should've added to my post above that I think our concern with capacity is more based on the theory of a longer life span (in other words, not as many re-write cycles for a larger drive rather than how much it actually holds).
> 
> As I'm watching down my HDD material I've also come to the realization that for storage 1TB is already more content than I really have that much time to watch!
> 
> So I'll probably be starting smaller (at least with the HR2x.)
> 
> IMO the "real" value is in the performance and time savings not having to wait so long for commands to be fulfilled. *To me would still be worth it if the SSD only lasted a year or so and just drop another one in the dock!*


That's exactly how I feel. A year with very few problems on an HR is worth the money. They'll last longer than a year, I hope. Not sure how someone why records a lot of content as I used to would make out with an SSD. Once you get past 1TB the price goes up quite a bit. Performance is key. And performance is what I have now.

Rich


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## Rich

I just put another 500GB SSD in a refurbed 24-500. Just got it the other day and it was sluggish. No issues with the setup. I know I said putting 500GB drives in wasn't a good idea but I read a post by *Delroy E Wallbanger* the other day and he said he was gonna go with the 500 and I liked his reasoning. That post doesn't seem to be in this thread. Saved a few bucks.

That's the last time I type that username, far too many keystrokes. Delroy E... will be *Delroy* from now on, if no offense is taken.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I just put another 500GB SSD in a refurbed 24-500. Just got it the other day and it was sluggish. No issues with the setup. I know I said putting 500GB drives in wasn't a good idea but I read a post by *Delroy E Wallbanger* the other day and he said he was gonna go with the 500 and I liked his reasoning. That post doesn't seem to be in this thread. Saved a few bucks.
> 
> That's the last time I type that username, far too many keystrokes. Delroy E... will be *Delroy* from now on, if no offense is taken.
> 
> Rich


Delroy is fine (or Del, as others have typed). No offense. Wallbanger - I like that one! Whatever works...

Ok, now onto the SSD:

Finally got the 500GB SSD into the dock last week and wasn't really expecting much (This is an 11+ year-old HR21-700). And, as expected, there wasn't too much at first.

So I figured give it a few days for updates, posters, guide banners and other assorted *bloatware* to load.

3-4 days later and wow. The SSD has rendered that obsolete unit to actually startlingly _usable_. Trickplay has been completely restored, this on live-buffering, too (unusable for the last number of years)!

Also much of the sluggishness when unit serving to another room over whole-home is gone. (This had always a problem over the last few years, no matter what kind of HDD I had in that dock.)

Now I can actually live-buffer while still serving a remote. Also guide-surf while serving (paused, of course). Haven't been able to guide-surf on that unit for at least 4 years! It always took too long to draw the posters.

I did manage to find a 1TB SSD on sale (not quite as inexpensive as Rich is waiting on) for the HR44, but it may be some while (If ever) I use that HR again.

Another story for another day. Might wind up just sticking it into the laptop.


----------



## inkahauts

slice1900 said:


> I don't recall, but bandwidth constraints would be the main reason for any PQ differences. Even today Directv has serious bandwidth constraints on Ku, which is used for all their MPEG2 SD channels, which is one of the if the THE reason why the MPEG2 SD duplicates have such poor PQ when compared to the SD duplicates of Dish or most cable providers - whether MPEG2 or MPEG4.


There was a huge picture quality difference when they moved to mpeg4 Hi Definition instead of mpeg2 Hi Definition even though it was coming from 110 and 119 not 101. But that was all due to bandwidth constraints and over compression. It was like dish in that they where not even doing full res Hi Definition till they went mpeg4 on some of the channels.


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Delroy is fine (or Del, as others have typed). No offense. Wallbanger - I like that one! Whatever works...
> 
> Ok, now onto the SSD:
> 
> Finally got the 500GB SSD into the dock last week and wasn't really expecting much (This is an 11+ year-old HR21-700). And, as expected, there wasn't too much at first.
> 
> So I figured give it a few days for updates, posters, guide banners and other assorted *bloatware* to load.
> 
> 3-4 days later and wow. The SSD has rendered that obsolete unit to actually startlingly _usable_. Trickplay has been completely restored, this on live-buffering, too (unusable for the last number of years)!
> 
> Also much of the sluggishness when unit serving to another room over whole-home is gone. (This had always a problem over the last few years, no matter what kind of HDD I had in that dock.)
> 
> Now I can actually live-buffer while still serving a remote. Also guide-surf while serving (paused, of course). Haven't been able to guide-surf on that unit for at least 4 years! It always took too long to draw the posters.
> 
> I did manage to find a 1TB SSD on sale (not quite as inexpensive as Rich is waiting on) for the HR44, but it may be some while (If ever) I use that HR again.
> 
> Another story for another day. Might wind up just sticking it into the laptop.


Ouch! Shoulda been *Walleye*! Another mistake. Sorry. Amazing what happens when you stick an SSD in, isn't it? Same thing happened to someone who put one in an HR20-700, an even older, but better, DVR. Really makes me think these DVRs were made for SSDs, which were far too expensive back in the day.

Rich


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## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> Ouch! Shoulda been *Walleye*! Another mistake. Sorry. Amazing what happens when you stick an SSD in, isn't it? Same thing happened to someone who put one in an *HR20-700*, an even older, but better, DVR. Really makes me think these DVRs were made for SSDs, which were far *too expensive* back in the day.
> 
> Rich


Yup, it's _closer_ to the performance of the 20/700 with its original HDD still in it, but nowhere near. Just in some things better. (I remember when new there wasn't much performance difference between the two.)

Yeah back in the day an SSD was not just expensive, but too low of capacity. (As I recall people might use an SSD in a desktop for their system files only.)


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## Rich

A couple days ago I put a 500GB SSD in a 24-500 using a TT dock. Had no problem connecting the dock to the 24 and all seemed well but one thing bothered me. The dock's lights were not blinking and they should have been. Didn't seem to matter, everything I tried worked. Later that day my son and I walked into that room and the HR was rebooting. I have not seen one random reboot on the other two HRs that have SSDs on them. I let the reboot go and forgot about it. Then I noticed the dock's lights were properly blinking. The HR hasn't rebooted since as far as I can tell. I have no idea why this happened.

Rich


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## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Yup, it's _closer_ to the performance of the 20/700 with its original HDD still in it, but nowhere near. Just in some things better. (I remember when new there wasn't much performance difference between the two.)
> 
> Yeah back in the day an SSD was not just expensive, but too low of capacity. (As I recall people might use an SSD in a desktop for their system files only.)


I'm pretty sure if you had a new 20-700 and a new 21-700 and put the same SSD in both the 20-700 would still blow the 21-700 away. Of course, I have a bias towards the 20-700s. When the Series 2 HRs came out I was very disappointed in the way they worked. I've always thought they should have kept making the 20-700s until the 24s came out.

Rich


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## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I'm pretty sure if you had a new 20-700 and a new 21-700 and put *the same SSD in both the 20-700 would still blow the 21-700 away*. Of course, I have a bias towards the 20-700s. When the Series 2 HRs came out I was very disappointed in the way they worked. I've always thought they should have kept making the 20-700s until the 24s came out.
> 
> Rich


Without a doubt. The HR20-700 is probably about the best-overall-performing HR2x, even _with_ its *original* HDD (including current bloatware)!

I was gonna "upgrade" to a 24 until I started reading here a while back they were beginning to perform more like HR21s, as it was the 21 I thought of replacing.

I decided the HR44 would be the better choice (and it really _was_ at the time). Again, a long-winded story for another day...

Seeing what the SSD did for the 21, I would imagine it able to bring the 24s back to their original top-of-the-line performance level of the HR2x series again.

I have to add, though, if I had the tech handy to copy the contents of the HR20/700, I'd put an SSD on that unit as soon as possible.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> A couple days ago I put a 500GB SSD in a 24-500 using a TT dock. Had no problem connecting the dock to the 24 and all seemed well but one thing bothered me. The dock's lights were not blinking and they should have been. Didn't seem to matter, everything I tried worked. Later that day my son and I walked into that room and the HR was rebooting. I have not seen one random reboot on the other two HRs that have SSDs on them. I let the reboot go and forgot about it. Then I noticed the dock's lights were properly blinking. The HR hasn't rebooted since as far as I can tell. I have no idea why this happened.
> 
> Rich


While I can't speak to the lack of blinking light on the dock (mine always blinked normally), I think it _is_ normal for the reboot to come within a few hours to one day of installing a different drive.

I went through this twice in the last couple months.

I had one more HDD to "watch-down" before putting in the SSD.

After the drive gets its "update," it takes a few hours, and in the meantime some of the graphics are weird and "low deffy"-looking.

Then it restarts (graphics are cleaned up) and proceeds to finish "trickling-in" all the additional bloatware (a few days worth in the HR21).


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## Rich

[QUOTE="Delroy E Walleye, post: 3519817, member: 512660"

I was gonna "upgrade" to a 24 until I started reading here a while back they were beginning to perform more like HR21s, as it was the 21 I thought of replacing.

Seeing what the SSD did for the 21, I would imagine it able to bring the 24s back to their original top-of-the-line performance level of the HR2x series again.[/QUOTE]

The 24s began to perform like the 21s because of the degradation of the HDDs, I think. We might not see that degradation with the SSDs. Still too soon to tell, I've only had them running for almost 4 months. An HDD would still be running well in that time frame.

Rich


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## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> While I can't speak to the lack of blinking light on the dock (mine always blinked normally), I think it _is_ normal for the reboot to come within a few hours to one day of installing a different drive.
> 
> I went through this twice in the last couple months.
> 
> I had one more HDD to "watch-down" before putting in the SSD.
> 
> After the drive gets its "update," it takes a few hours, and in the meantime some of the graphics are weird and "low deffy"-looking.
> 
> Then it restarts (graphics are cleaned up) and proceeds to finish "trickling-in" all the additional bloatware (a few days worth in the HR21).


First time that has happened to me. I saw no issues before it rebooted. Looks the same now. Perhaps I never noticed a reboot. The light not blinking really bothered me, that's the one thing that's different...it's blinking merrily along now.

Rich


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## Geekzilla

A few weeks ago I replaced the internal drives of 2 HR24's with 1TB SSD's and the difference has been absolutely remarkable.


----------



## Rich

Geekzilla said:


> A few weeks ago I replaced the internal drives of 2 HR24's with 1TB SSD's and the difference has been absolutely remarkable.


Far too short a post, please tell us more. Do you see any video or audio breakups?

Rich


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## Geekzilla

Rich said:


> Far too short a post, please tell us more. Do you see any video or audio breakups?
> 
> Rich


No breakups (so far anyways). My HR24's with the old drives would occasionally become unresponsive to the remote for 10-30 seconds while still playing video. During normal operation they were sluggish at best. Now they are extremely responsive and I prefer them to the HR44 with the new GUI.

edit: As further info, I am using a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB in one and a Crucial MX500 1TB in the other.


----------



## Rich

Geekzilla said:


> No breakups (so far anyways). My HR24's with the old drives would occasionally become unresponsive to the remote for 10-30 seconds while still playing video. During normal operation they were sluggish at best. Now they are extremely responsive and I prefer them to the HR44 with the new GUI.
> 
> edit: As further info, I am using a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB in one and a Crucial MX500 1TB in the other.


Thanx. You are seeing the same things we are seeing. How long that lasts is what's important. Been almost 4 months since I put in the first two SSDs and nothing has changed. No problems, no pixelations, no audio drops. No more "software is bloated" rants. Just HRs running as they should have since we got them.

Rich


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## Delroy E Walleye

Yeah, now I'd _really_ like to get a couple of HR24s to replace the older HR2x that are still working (since from reading here that SSDs seem to take care of the HR24 slowdowns of the last few years).

Unfortunately it's looking like there's no way to self-activate with Deathstar these days. So, out of the question... IOW not really worth it.


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Yeah, now I'd _really_ like to get a couple of HR24s to replace the older HR2x that are still working (since from reading here that SSDs seem to take care of the HR24 slowdowns of the last few years).
> 
> Unfortunately it's looking like there's no way to self-activate with Deathstar these days. So, out of the question... IOW not really worth it.


Took 5 days to get a refurbed 24 activated. When I say the folks at ATT "tech" support are clueless I'm not kidding. Thing is, you can call ATT Retention and tell them what's wrong and they'll listen and sympathize but they can't do something as simple as activating an HR so they have to transfer you to the dolts at "tech" support...who can't understand anything. "Tech" support, my...you know.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> Took 5 days to get a refurbed 24 activated. When I say the folks at ATT "tech" support are clueless I'm not kidding. Thing is, you can call ATT Retention and tell them what's wrong and they'll listen and sympathize but they can't do something as simple as activating an HR so they have to transfer you to the dolts at "tech" support...who can't understand anything. "Tech" support, my...you know.
> 
> Rich


Yeah, and all that for a unit replacement that you were actually _supposed_ to have!

In my case I'd be trying to voluntarily replace working HRs, paying full price, re-upping commitment and then still having to pay for a truck roll + waiting for who knows how long.

No, thanks!


----------



## dminches

I just started running my HR54 with a 1 TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD. Everything is zipping along so far. I will report back after I have had a couple days to get used to it. I am hoping all the video and audio skipping will be much less or not there at all.


----------



## dminches

I was so happy about the performance with the 1 TB SSD that I bought a 2 TB SSD so I don’t have to worry about running out of space. The video and audio glitches are down to a minimum, if any at all. I can’t say this only has to do with the SSD but so far I am very pleased.


----------



## Rich

When it comes to "Pros" and "Cons" I like to see cons a lot more than pros. I find it hard to believe that I can't find anything to complain about regarding the performance of the SSDs and the 3 HRs I have them on. The HRs actually seem to be more stable than an Apple TV box. Never expected that. It's been 5 or 6 months since I installed the first 2 SSDs and I'm still seeing what I saw then. 

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> Took 5 days to get a refurbed 24 activated. When I say the folks at ATT "tech" support are clueless I'm not kidding. Thing is, you can call ATT Retention and tell them what's wrong and they'll listen and sympathize but they can't do something as simple as activating an HR so they have to transfer you to the dolts at "tech" support...who can't understand anything. "Tech" support, my...you know.
> 
> Rich


Rich- A quick note- I did a CHAT two days ago with DirecTV to activate an owned HR24-200 receiver from another account, and it still had the access card from previous owner (I bought 4 receivers from ex-DirecTV employee- they were confirmed owned at the time before I purchased). When you go into chat, there is a topic line item to choose "Tech Support". The process took less than 8 minutes, and the chat agent confirmed it did not extend my commitment. I called yesterday to verify it was activated as owned equipment, and that different CSR confirmed it, with no change in commitment. I was pretty ecstatic going this route- typically it's a head-banging 45 minute phone call at the minimum. I have the CHAT printout if needed for the future confirming all of the details in writing. This may help you and others in the future.

I think I'm going to pick up one of those 500g drives under your link. It's only $85 right now with free shipping. Thanks for testing it out!


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Rich- A quick note- I did a CHAT two days ago with DirecTV to activate an owned HR24-200 receiver from another account, and it still had the access card from previous owner (I bought 4 receivers from ex-DirecTV employee- they were confirmed owned at the time before I purchased). When you go into chat, there is a topic line item to choose "Tech Support". The process took less than 8 minutes, and the chat agent confirmed it did not extend my commitment. I called yesterday to verify it was activated as owned equipment, and that different CSR confirmed it, with no change in commitment. I was pretty ecstatic going this route- typically it's a head-banging 45 minute phone call at the minimum. I have the CHAT printout if needed for the future confirming all of the details in writing. This may help you and others in the future.
> 
> I think I'm going to pick up one of those 500g drives under your link. It's only $85 right now with free shipping. Thanks for testing it out!


Was that chat with D* or ATT? Makes a big difference.

The price of the 500GB drives went up. I paid ~ $72 for mine last August. Just checked the price on Amazon. Disappointing, I had hoped they'd keep going down. But think of what a 500GB SSD cost a couple years ago.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> Was that chat with D* or ATT? Makes a big difference.
> 
> The price of the 500GB drives went up. I paid ~ $72 for mine last August. Just checked the price on Amazon. Disappointing, I had hoped they'd keep going down. But think of what a 500GB SSD cost a couple years ago.
> 
> Rich


I'm still on DirecTV billing, but thought it might be worth a shot if you're switched over to AT&T's......

I wonder if any other outlets have the hard drive for cheaper.....I'll do some checking. Thanks.


----------



## Rich

If my math is correct it's been over six months since I installed the first two SSDs. I put one more on a 24 in December. All three are running as they did when I installed them. No complaints...which is odd. I have more problems with my Apple TV boxes than the HRs with SSDs. Never expected that. Just reinforces my belief the HRs were made for SSDs rather than HDDs. 

One big question: Have any of you out there that have SSDs in or on your HRs had any problems that you can attribute to the SSDs?

Rich


----------



## codespy

I'm going to toss it in the HR24 I just activated. I'll let you know after a week how it's running. Thanks.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I'm still on DirecTV billing, but thought it might be worth a shot if you're switched over to AT&T's......
> 
> I wonder if any other outlets have the hard drive for cheaper.....I'll do some checking. Thanks.


Ahh, I had hoped you were talking to an ATT person. I hope they get the owned thing straightened out. I just saw a 500GB Crucial SSD at a reasonable price, let me see if I can find that...yeah, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX50...=1548443684&sr=8-3&keywords=crucial+ssd+500gb
I don't have any idea how good the Crucials are but I have seen them mentioned by a lot of people lately. Haven't read any complaints about them. That $57 price is more than decent.

Rich


----------



## AngryManMLS

Too bad we can't put an SSD into the Genie 2. That would sure help that thing out.


----------



## slice1900

AngryManMLS said:


> Too bad we can't put an SSD into the Genie 2. That would sure help that thing out.


No one is stopping you. Yeah technically you aren't supposed to open it, but has anyone ever heard of a single person getting in trouble for Directv because they returned a receiver with that little 'tamper' sticker missing/broken?

Who knows, maybe it is even more responsive with the SSD.


----------



## jimmie57

AngryManMLS said:


> Too bad we can't put an SSD into the Genie 2. That would sure help that thing out.


I am pretty sure that this receiver has the eSata connection and could then add an external SSD.


----------



## carl6

Yes, HS17 does have eSata connection.


----------



## Rich

AngryManMLS said:


> Too bad we can't put an SSD into the Genie 2. That would sure help that thing out.


The 17s don't have an eSATA port? How can that be?

Rich


----------



## Rich

carl6 said:


> Yes, HS17 does have eSata connection.


This keeps happening to me. I have to start reading the whole thread before I post. I've been telling myself that for years and I keep on doing it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

AngryManMLS said:


> Too bad we can't put an SSD into the Genie 2. That would sure help that thing out.


I don't think it makes any difference if you use the eSATA function on the 17s rather than installing it internally. Performance-wise. I did install one SSD on my 24-200 internally and then the 200 lost the ability to respond to remote commands and I had it replaced. Put the SSD externally on the refurb and it worked just like the previous 200 did. Saw no difference in performance. But if folks have 17s that have issues that might be caused by HDDs degrading trying an SSD couldn't hurt.

With the transition to ATT accounts and their rather baffling ToS I'd be leery about opening a leased box. Yeah, we've never seen anything to make us believe D* had any interest in going after folks that opened leased boxes but this is a different ballgame.

Rich


----------



## dminches

I have had an SSD on my HR54 for about a month now. I still have video jitter issues here and there.

I know the issues with MSG (634, 635, etc.) are MSG’s broadcast as opposed to DirecTV’s but the issues are annoying. I watched a program that I recorded on Bravo (Dirty John) and the picture was inconsistent.

So far I can’t say that the SSD has made a big difference. 

When I watch something on my Apple TV the picture is perfect. I guess expecting DirecTV to look the same is asking too much.


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> The 17s don't have an eSATA port? How can that be?
> 
> Rich


The more recently manufactured HS17s and HR54s dropped the eSATA port and went from USB 2.0 to 3.0 (along with a few other minor changes) so I'm guessing they probably support a USB drive instead - but I don't know for sure so someone will have to confirm if that's the case or not.


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> I have had an SSD on my HR54 for about a month now. I still have video jitter issues here and there.
> 
> I know the issues with MSG (634, 635, etc.) are MSG's broadcast as opposed to DirecTV's but the issues are annoying. I watched a program that I recorded on Bravo (Dirty John) and the picture was inconsistent.
> 
> So far I can't say that the SSD has made a big difference.
> 
> When I watch something on my Apple TV the picture is perfect. I guess expecting DirecTV to look the same is asking too much.


Do you use an AVR on the 54? I kept seeing audio drops on one HR with an SSD but we got that taken care of by *Jimmie* who figured out my Sony AVR had a setting for syncing that needed adjustment. After that the drops stopped.

You're not gonna see any difference in PQ using the SSD, David. In that regard you're not gonna see a better picture. My 44 is probably a lot older than your 54 is. You might not see as much difference as I've seen in speed and stability. My 44 was slow and buggy before I put the SSD in. PQ wasn't a problem.

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> The more recently manufactured HS17s and HR54s dropped the eSATA port and went from USB 2.0 to 3.0 (along with a few other minor changes) so I'm guessing they probably support a USB drive instead - but I don't know for sure so someone will have to confirm if that's the case or not.


I didn't know that. If USB 3 external devices can be used that opens up a lot of options. There has to be some info on this somewhere.

Rich


----------



## dminches

Rich said:


> Do you use an AVR on the 54? I kept seeing audio drops on one HR with an SSD but we got that taken care of by *Jimmie* who figured out my Sony AVR had a setting for syncing that needed adjustment. After that the drops stopped.
> 
> You're not gonna see any difference in PQ using the SSD, David. In that regard you're not gonna see a better picture. My 44 is probably a lot older than your 54 is. You might not see as much difference as I've seen in speed and stability. My 44 was slow and buggy before I put the SSD in. PQ wasn't a problem.
> 
> Rich


My signal chain is HR54 > Bryston SP-3 processor (no video processing, just pass through) > Sony projector.

I never have issues with my other sources (Apple TV, Roku, 4K Oppo).

It isn't the picture quality but the intermittent video stuttering.


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> My signal chain is HR54 > Bryston SP-3 processor (no video processing, just pass through) > Sony projector.
> 
> I never have issues with my other sources (Apple TV, Roku, 4K Oppo).
> 
> It isn't the picture quality but the intermittent video *stuttering*.


Did you have that juddering before you put the SSD in?

Rich


----------



## dminches

Rich said:


> Did you have that juddering before you put the SSD in?
> 
> Rich


Yes. I was hoping the SSD would help.

Do you get stuttering on MSG?


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> Yes. I was hoping the SSD would help.
> 
> Do you get stuttering on MSG?


Don't use MSG at all. If you had the stuttering before and the SSD didn't help something else is wrong. In my case I see no video issues at all. I was more focused on speed and the picture stability was unexpected.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> Yes. I was hoping the SSD would help.
> 
> Do you get stuttering on MSG?


I used to have all kinds of problems with YES. Thought that was normal on YES. I was convinced it was a broadcast issue and it wasn't. In your case it might be MSG.

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> I didn't know that. If USB 3 external devices can be used that opens up a lot of options. There has to be some info on this somewhere.
> 
> Rich


AFAIK Directv hasn't publicized this change at all. It was noted only because the FCC requires a resubmission as a "class II permissive change" for minor changes in a previously approved device.


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> AFAIK Directv hasn't publicized this change at all. It was noted only because the FCC requires a resubmission as a "class II permissive change" for minor changes in a previously approved device.


Do you know when this happened? Was it after the merger? ATT seems to have a communication problem with the folks that sub to D*.

Rich


----------



## GekkoDBS

Rich said:


> I didn't know that. If USB 3 external devices can be used that opens up a lot of options. There has to be some info on this somewhere.
> 
> Rich


Does that mean you could use a usb 3 external drive that does not require it to be plugged in?


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Do you know when this happened? Was it after the merger? ATT seems to have a communication problem with the folks that sub to D*.
> 
> Rich


It is recent, but Directv has always treated models within a family as the same - i.e. if you replace an HR54 and don't have 4K you might get an HR44. So they sure aren't going to care about changes like that (which in the past might have got a new model number, but it is still considered HS17 though the HR54 is at least HR54R1)


----------



## Rich

GordonGekko said:


> Does that mean you could use a usb 3 external drive that does not require it to be plugged in?


If you mean does the USB external device have a jumper cable between the USB port and the HR, yes. I don't see how else that could work. Or did you mean something else?

Rich


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> My signal chain is HR54 > Bryston SP-3 processor (no video processing, just pass through) > Sony projector.
> 
> I never have issues with my other sources (Apple TV, Roku, 4K Oppo).
> 
> It isn't the picture quality but the intermittent video stuttering.


When you see that juddering on a recording can you click back and see if it replicates in the same place? If it does that points to the broadcast being the culprit.

Rich


----------



## GekkoDBS

Rich said:


> If you mean does the USB external device have a jumper cable between the USB port and the HR, yes. I don't see how else that could work. Or did you mean something else?
> 
> Rich


I mean if we find out that some of the HR54's can accept usb 3 devices, can we use this:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-eas...able-hard-drive-black/5792405.p?skuId=5792405

If we can, then there is one other way we could change the drive without having to plug in an additional device, the other way being opening up the HR54 and replacing the existing drive.

By plug, I mean into an electrical socket.


----------



## Rich

GordonGekko said:


> I mean if we find out that some of the HR54's can accept usb 3 devices, can we use this:
> 
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-eas...able-hard-drive-black/5792405.p?skuId=5792405
> 
> If we can, then there is one other way we could change the drive without having to plug in an additional device, the other way being opening up the HR54 and replacing the existing drive.
> 
> By plug I mean into an electrical socket.


That might work, might not. When we began figuring out how the eSATA function worked we tried the WD MyBook enclosures. Came with an HDD inside as the one in your link does. Would not work. And it was a SATA device. But the one in your link would probably work. You'd still have to plug it into a power source tho, I think. I don't know of any way to get around that.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

There are external USB devices that get their power from the USB port. Not sure if the USB port on a D* device has the power to run a hard drive though.


----------



## GekkoDBS

b4pjoe said:


> There are external USB devices that get their power from the USB port. Not sure if the USB port on a D* device has the power to run a hard drive though.


Yes, for example you can do this with the drive in the link above and a nvidia shield, no extra outlet needed, hopefully someone will test this out soon.


----------



## dminches

Rich said:


> When you see that juddering on a recording can you click back and see if it replicates in the same place? If it does that points to the broadcast being the culprit.
> 
> Rich


Good question. I will check that.

Last night on I was watching the SAG awards on TNT. There were multiple instances of picture break up but it was not the same stuttering that I get at times.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> There are external USB devices that get their power from the USB port. Not sure if the USB port on a D* device has the power to run a hard drive though.


In my post I said "You'd still have to plug it into a power source tho." I'm thinking there's no way around that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> Good question. I will check that.
> 
> Last night on I was watching the SAG awards on TNT. There were multiple instances of picture break up but it was not the same stuttering that I get at times.


I never worry about problems I can replicate, that always seems to be a broadcast issue.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Okay Rich, my Sammy 500G SS drive arrived yesterday from Amazon, tossed against the garage door in the snow. I let it thaw for 4 hours before tossing into my HR24 I just activated. So far, so good. I removed the HD and bracket from my -200, connected the SS drive sitting on the piece of foam, and everything working great so far.

I can't believe how small it is.....smaller than my regular wallet, and doesn't weigh anything. I'll report back in a week or so, while suffering through this polar vortex we're getting tomorrow.


----------



## slice1900

Well they are "solid state" so they won't be damaged by careless delivery people. I think they are rated to handle 1000 Gs, and that's probably because they didn't test any higher than that.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Okay Rich, my Sammy 500G SS drive arrived yesterday from Amazon, tossed against the garage door in the snow. I let it thaw for 4 hours before tossing into my HR24 I just activated. So far, so good. I removed the HD and bracket from my -200, connected the SS drive sitting on the piece of foam, and everything working great so far.
> 
> I can't believe how small it is.....smaller than my regular wallet, and doesn't weigh anything. I'll report back in a week or so, while suffering through this polar vortex we're getting tomorrow.


I knew little about SSDs other than they existed. I was put off by the size too. I put one in a 200 too and just let it float on the stiff cables connected to it. Then the HR failed and I put it in a dock on the refurb. I always had problems with docks and HDDs. The docks work a lot better with the SSDs than they do with HDDs. But, yeah, how do they pack all that in such small package?

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Well they are "solid state" so they won't be damaged by careless delivery people. I think they are rated to handle 1000 Gs, and that's probably because they didn't test any higher than that.


Cold weather?

Rich


----------



## paranoia

Rich I used the retention number in your sig, and it was att cell phone retention not DT, I had to be put on hold , then be transferred to DT and put on hold again, so I guess I will still try the old DT numbers, thanks anyway for the info.


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Cold weather?
> 
> Rich


Shouldn't be a problem, at least not for normal cold weather. Most electronics are tested only down to 0C, or in some cases -20C (-4F) but that doesn't mean an SSD won't work at colder temperatures.

Still, letting it sit for a few hours to acclimatize to the temperatures in your house is never a bad idea unless you are in some kinda crazy hurry to get it installed and running right away.


----------



## Rich

paranoia said:


> Rich I used the retention number in your sig, and it was att cell phone retention not DT, I had to be put on hold , then be transferred to DT and put on hold again, so I guess I will still try the old DT numbers, thanks anyway for the info.


Don't know what happened when you called. I just called that number and the first thing the guy said was, "This is the Loyalty Department". He told me that number was gonna change in the near future but it's viable now. Hey, maybe ATT has the phones as screwed up as D* is. I dunno what's going on in ATT land...

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Shouldn't be a problem, at least not for normal cold weather. Most electronics are tested only down to 0C, or in some cases -20C (-4F) but that doesn't mean an SSD won't work at colder temperatures.
> 
> Still, letting it sit for a few hours to acclimatize to the temperatures in your house is never a bad idea unless you are in some kinda crazy hurry to get it installed and running right away.


I remember cautions about cold HDDs but SSDs? Nothing moving in them is there?

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> I remember cautions about cold HDDs but SSDs? Nothing moving in them is there?
> 
> Rich


There's not anything moving in them and like I said being cold shouldn't be a problem for them. However thermal expansion/contraction still occurs and at different rates in different materials so personally I would err on the side of caution if I had a box with an SSD sitting outside in -20C weather and let it warm up a bit before using it - which would cause the chips to quickly warm up to probably +50C or higher.

I would bet against problems but unless you are in a hurry what can it hurt to let it sit around for a couple hours to reach ambient temperature in your house first?


----------



## dminches

I have concluded that any of my video jitter issues are from the broadcast themselves and not the machine. MSG's broadcasts are ripe with breakups.

I can't say that I see a huge speed difference between using the SSD and mechanical HD but I certainly don't see any downsides at this point.


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> I have concluded that any of my video jitter issues are from the broadcast themselves and not the machine. MSG's broadcasts are ripe with breakups.
> 
> I can't say that I see a huge speed difference between using the SSD and mechanical HD but I certainly don't see any downsides at this point.


When I decided to try the SSDs it was because the 44 and 24 were so slow and buggy it was annoying. What I saw with the SSDs was speed and stability. Compared to the slow and buggy 44 and 24. Might not have seen any speed difference if I was comparing them to an HR with a relatively new HDD on it. Then I got a refurbed 24-500 that was slow and buggy. SSD on that it works a lot better.

I got the 44 from someone on this site about 3 years ago. I booted it up and made sure it worked and then stuck a 3TB Green Caviar in it. Always had problems with it, it rebooted randomly and shut off randomly for some time. Then an NR came down that fixed those issues. Chalked that up to software. Thought the NRs were the cause of all my problems. After all that the 44 was just a PITA to use. Now it's not and the SSDs changed my mind.

Rich


----------



## ColdCase

I haven't read the entire thread but I designed and worked with SSD controllers and chips in my previous life, and thought I'd mention the following. At the risk of over simplification, DirecTV DVRs and security camera systems are constantly writing data to a drive. This is hard on an SSD especially if it cannot keep up with housekeeping and doesn't have rest periods to recover.

For example, a 1TB SSD may provision 1.5 TB of memory and manage its use to maximize its life (like a built in 0.5 TB spare). Memory will wear out after so many write cycles depending on chip technology, reading not so much. So when there is a memory location with a problem or high wear, the controller marks it unusable and reduces the spares available (its more complex than this but this is the general gist). The better more expensive SSDs provision more, low cost ones provision less. There is also other physics involved, especially with higher density and multi layer gates. The controller has to move stored data around from one location to another periodically to maintain data integrity. It also runs periodic integrity checks.

The controller makes the SSD look like a hard drive to a computer, but its memory chips has a much different architecture and it spends a lot of time translating. Memory can only be written a paragraph at a time, so to write one word to a SSD memory location it first has to move the entire paragraph, changing the word in route. It can read one word at a time. And writing is relatively slow. Just saying that there is a lot going on in a SSD thats transparent to the user. There are wide variations of memory chip technology available, some more tolerant than another, and the SSD designer can mix up a stew of chips. For example, like most HDs, they always have some RAM cache to save date while slower processed complete.

The other thing that controllers do to maximize life is to throttle writes when it looks like it will wear out before the warranty expires. Under hard use, they are typically designed to fail about a month after the warranty expires. An additional consideration is that there may be a dozen controller chip manufactures and they all have one quirk or another, some are much more reliable than others. Their fatal flaws typically show up when used in high write environments, so your mileage will vary greatly.

When a SSD fails, there is no warning, no blips or starts/stops. If you are lucky you may notice the slow down before it bites the dust. There is nothing to recover as the controller has lost its place and doesn't recall where all the data is that it stored away. Its just gone, even the agency would have a tough time recovering anything. SSDs keep track of wear and can provide wear data, so a computer can indicate the drive is approaching end off life.

A DirecTV DVR or security system is constantly writing data, and may not give enough time for house keeping. Constant writing will heat them up so much you need to put fans on them, or they slow down. In a typical computer, there is always enough gaps in the reads/writes that SSDs can easily handle it.

The scenarios mentioned here have been tested many times in labs. I can take 100 good quality SSDs and run high write load test on them, 10 will fail within 10 days, another 20 will fail within 20 days, another 30 will fail within a month. The rest won't fail outright but the write speed eventually slows to a crawl making them pretty much unusable. Less expensive SSDs usually fail or reduce to crawling speed within an hour.

Just a more detailed explanation of why constantly writing to SSDs is more of an issue to constantly writing to a HD. And its more complicated that it may seem. There isn't a controller in a HD as the computer OS does all the house cleaning and management. So you need to trash everything you know about HDs.

Its nice to have folks experimenting, as sometimes theory is no substitute for experiment and real world experience.


----------



## Geekzilla

Thanks for the interesting post. I have deployed several SSD's in my receivers. I'm curious, would disconnecting the SATA data cable for a few hours every few months be enough to mitigate the issue?


----------



## ColdCase

You should never pull a eSATA cable on a live system. The newer systems are much less susceptible but, if you catch it at the wrong time, you could corrupt the drive. I would pull the power on the DTV box instead.

Otherwise, if the SSD remains powered and trim enabled it could help. Dunno, but I'd think it would cause more problems than not. .


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Mine's in a dock, external to the HR.

Running two months, no real problems.

Only slightly warm to the touch. (Perhaps I should invest in one of those laser pen thermometers and take its temp to see if it ever starts heating up for immanent failure warning.

I would guess it's not a bad idea to do a "graceful" shutdown of the HR every so often while leaving the dock powered up. (I do this anyway. The HR unit had _always_ required a reset every number of weeks, usually four to six. The dock gets powered-down and back up _separately_ - as with the HDDs that preceded the SSD.)

I never keep any "critical" long-term recordings in the DVR anyway. (Those get captured and saved elsewhere.)

I figure if/when the SSD quits working, I'll probably just drop another one in the dock and start over. The performance/time-lag improvements are _still_ worth it to me.

(Also, to *ColdCase*, you might sometime want to read the rest of the thread, and _thanks_ for your posts. Interesting info!)


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Mine's in a dock, external to the HR.
> 
> Running two months, no real problems.
> 
> Only slightly warm to the touch. (Perhaps I should invest in one of those laser pen thermometers and take its temp to see if it ever starts heating up for immanent failure warning.
> 
> I would guess it's not a bad idea to do a "graceful" shutdown of the HR every so often while leaving the dock powered up. (I do this anyway. The HR unit had _always_ required a reset every number of weeks, usually four to six. The dock gets powered-down and back up _separately_ - as with the HDDs that preceded the SSD.)
> 
> I never keep any "critical" long-term recordings in the DVR anyway. (Those get captured and saved elsewhere.)
> 
> *I figure if/when the SSD quits working, I'll probably just drop another one in the dock and start over. The performance/time-lag improvements are still worth it to me.*
> 
> (Also, to *ColdCase*, you might sometime want to read the rest of the thread, and _thanks_ for your posts. Interesting info!)


That's what I'm thinking. The performance of the HRs I stuck the SSDs on was abysmal. Now they work better than my ATVs. I don't need more than a 500GB SSD, sticking one of them in every year is no problem. Obviously, my reasons aren't gonna fit the needs of folks who need capacity. I'm into the seventh month of SSDs and I have yet to see one problem I can blame on the SSDs.

Think about how long an HDD is trouble free. Not when it fails, but when the degradation becomes a problem. Take the 3TB Green Caviar WD HDD I put in the 44 the day I got the 44. I don't think I got more than two years of good performance out of that HDD. Not saying every HDD is gonna be like the 3TB Green but that's the only one I can use for comparisons.

Rich


----------



## Rich

ColdCase said:


> I haven't read the entire thread but I designed and worked with SSD controllers and chips in my previous life, and thought I'd mention the following. At the risk of over simplification, DirecTV DVRs and security camera systems are constantly writing data to a drive. This is hard on an SSD especially if it cannot keep up with housekeeping and doesn't have rest periods to recover.
> 
> For example, a 1TB SSD may provision 1.5 TB of memory and manage its use to maximize its life (like a built in 0.5 TB spare). Memory will wear out after so many write cycles depending on chip technology, reading not so much. So when there is a memory location with a problem or high wear, the controller marks it unusable and reduces the spares available (its more complex than this but this is the general gist). The better more expensive SSDs provision more, low cost ones provision less. There is also other physics involved, especially with higher density and multi layer gates. The controller has to move stored data around from one location to another periodically to maintain data integrity. It also runs periodic integrity checks.
> 
> The controller makes the SSD look like a hard drive to a computer, but its memory chips has a much different architecture and it spends a lot of time translating. Memory can only be written a paragraph at a time, so to write one word to a SSD memory location it first has to move the entire paragraph, changing the word in route. It can read one word at a time. And writing is relatively slow. Just saying that there is a lot going on in a SSD thats transparent to the user. There are wide variations of memory chip technology available, some more tolerant than another, and the SSD designer can mix up a stew of chips. For example, like most HDs, they always have some RAM cache to save date while slower processed complete.
> 
> The other thing that controllers do to maximize life is to throttle writes when it looks like it will wear out before the warranty expires. Under hard use, they are typically designed to fail about a month after the warranty expires. An additional consideration is that there may be a dozen controller chip manufactures and they all have one quirk or another, some are much more reliable than others. Their fatal flaws typically show up when used in high write environments, so your mileage will vary greatly.
> 
> When a SSD fails, there is no warning, no blips or starts/stops. If you are lucky you may notice the slow down before it bites the dust. There is nothing to recover as the controller has lost its place and doesn't recall where all the data is that it stored away. Its just gone, even the agency would have a tough time recovering anything. SSDs keep track of wear and can provide wear data, so a computer can indicate the drive is approaching end off life.
> 
> A DirecTV DVR or security system is constantly writing data, and may not give enough time for house keeping. Constant writing will heat them up so much you need to put fans on them, or they slow down. In a typical computer, there is always enough gaps in the reads/writes that SSDs can easily handle it.
> 
> The scenarios mentioned here have been tested many times in labs. I can take 100 good quality SSDs and run high write load test on them, 10 will fail within 10 days, another 20 will fail within 20 days, another 30 will fail within a month. The rest won't fail outright but the write speed eventually slows to a crawl making them pretty much unusable. Less expensive SSDs usually fail or reduce to crawling speed within an hour.
> 
> Just a more detailed explanation of why constantly writing to SSDs is more of an issue to constantly writing to a HD. And its more complicated that it may seem. There isn't a controller in a HD as the computer OS does all the house cleaning and management. So you need to trash everything you know about HDs.
> 
> Its nice to have folks experimenting, as sometimes theory is no substitute for experiment and real world experience.


Interesting, thanx.

Rich


----------



## codespy

So far after about two weeks.....

The 500G SS drive I put inside my HR24-200 has been giving several 10 second freezes/pixellations during the last week, mostly on non-local channels. We only have about 10 hours of recordings on it. I wonder, will it fit into a TT dock? I have an extra one to try it out in. I'm just wondering if the SS drive is getting any interference from inside the HR24 from the other components......


----------



## ColdCase

Delroy E Walleye said:


> ....
> 
> (Also, to *ColdCase*, you might sometime want to read the rest of the thread, and _thanks_ for your posts. Interesting info!)


Yeah, I only got ¾ way through before I got tired of it .. I found a surprising amount of performance characteristics variability between SSD brands and models, sometimes batch numbers as firmware get updated. Its like one HD will work well where others don't, as reported in another thread. There's some magic sauce that don't translate well from one brand to another. The Intel seemed to be most consistent and rugged at the time.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

codespy said:


> So far after about two weeks.....
> 
> The 500G SS drive I put inside my HR24-200 has been giving several 10 second freezes/pixellations during the last week, mostly on non-local channels. We only have about 10 hours of recordings on it. *I wonder, will it fit into a TT dock?* I have an extra one to try it out in. I'm just wondering if the SS drive is getting any interference from inside the HR24 from the other components......


Yes. The SSD _does_ work in the Termaltake dock (same dock I've used on two different HRs, with various HDDs).


----------



## codespy

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Yes. The SSD _does_ work in the Termaltake dock (same dock I've used on two different HRs, with various HDDs).


Thanks, I'll rip apart my A/V setup and toss it in there.


----------



## skinnyJM

Very interesting thread. I am very curious as to how these "experiments" will turn out. Thanks to all for sharing your experiences.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> So far after about two weeks.....
> 
> The 500G SS drive I put inside my HR24-200 has been giving several 10 second freezes/pixellations during the last week, mostly on non-local channels. We only have about 10 hours of recordings on it. I wonder, will it fit into a TT dock? I have an extra one to try it out in. I'm just wondering if the SS drive is getting any interference from inside the HR24 from the other components......


Yes, they fit in Thermaltake docks. I have 3 TT docks in use with the SSDs. Have you tried to replicate the freezes/pixelations by clicking back? If you can replicate them it's probably the broadcast since you don't seem to be seeing that on all channels. I don't see any signs of interference.

Rich


----------



## Rich

skinnyJM said:


> Very interesting thread. I am very curious as to how these "experiments" will turn out. Thanks to all for sharing your experiences.


So are we. So far, so good.

Rich


----------



## codespy

I took out the SS drive this morning and put a 1TB in its place, back in the original tray. The SS drive is now in a TT dock. It was pretty hot to the touch when it was inside, but not hot enough inside to trigger the DVR fan. Hopefully the heat did not damage it.

It is now operating much cooler, placed in the TT dock with the much lower ambient room temperature. So far for the last 10 hours, my wife indicated one freeze/pixelation for about 45 seconds on channel 231.

As this is on our primary TV, I asked her to document freezes as she is watching during the day, and record the program when she sees it, to see if it can be reproduced. I would suggest to all others, do not place inside the ‘owned’ DVR’s. Use an external dock.

It’s really nice that the TT dock has a perfect slot opening for a SS drive. I always wondered why the door was made like that.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I took out the SS drive this morning and put a 1TB in its place, back in the original tray. The SS drive is now in a TT dock. It was pretty hot to the touch when it was inside, but not hot enough inside to trigger the DVR fan. Hopefully the heat did not damage it.
> 
> It is now operating much cooler, placed in the TT dock with the much lower ambient room temperature. So far for the last 10 hours, my wife indicated one freeze/pixelation for about 45 seconds on channel 231.
> 
> As this is on our primary TV, I asked her to document freezes as she is watching during the day, and record the program when she sees it, to see if it can be reproduced. I would suggest to all others, do not place inside the 'owned' DVR's. Use an external dock.
> 
> It's really nice that the TT dock has a perfect slot opening for a SS drive. I always wondered why the door was made like that.


I put one 500GB SSD in a 24-200. I just left it "floating" on the two cables it was connected to. I didn't see any heat issues with it. That HR developed a problem not related to the internal SSD (would not accept remote commands) and had to be returned. I took the SSD out and when I got the replacement I put the SSD in a dock. When I took the SSD out it wasn't hot. How did you secure the SSD inside the HR?

Rich


----------



## codespy

I had it floating, resting on the small piece of foam provided with the stock hard drive, so it wouldn’t short out to other components. So it was in free air inside the unit. I removed it within a minute after pulling the power cord- she was pretty hot.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I had it floating, resting on the small piece of foam provided with the stock hard drive, so it wouldn't short out to other components. So it was in free air inside the unit. I removed it within a minute after pulling the power cord- she was pretty hot.


Was that a Samsung 860 EVO SSD? I just checked two of my SSDs (in docks) and they are not even warm. I did check the temps on the 24-200 when I had the SSD placed internally and they were normal. The motherboards in the HRs do get very warm. When I took the SSD out of the 24 I had to go thru the whole rigamarole of taking the lid off, the SSD might have (must have) cooled down by the time I got it off. Don't think I'd ever bother with mounting an SSD internally again, they work very well in the docks. Only thing I can think of about the heat is it must have been sucking up the heat from the motherboard. Lift an HR, place your palm on the bottom and you'll feel that warmth.

Rich


----------



## Geekzilla

I've had 1TB SSDs installed internally in 2 HR24's for about 2 1/2 months now. I bought a 2.5-3.5 metal mounting adapter for the HR24-200 since it was just free floating above the motherboard but never got around to installing it because I saw no issues. It does seem like it will work great though.

I have a question for ColdCase or anyone else who knows. I've been thinking about the lack of cleanup time for our SSD's and was thinking about activating double play and having both tuners on 9501 and 9502 because there seems to be virtually no data involved. Would this for a few hours provide enough idle time for cleanup?


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> Was that a Samsung 860 EVO SSD? I just checked two of my SSDs (in docks) and they are not even warm. I did check the temps on the 24-200 when I had the SSD placed internally and they were normal. The motherboards in the HRs do get very warm. When I took the SSD out of the 24 I had to go thru the whole rigamarole of taking the lid off, the SSD might have (must have) cooled down by the time I got it off. Don't think I'd ever bother with mounting an SSD internally again, they work very well in the docks. Only thing I can think of about the heat is it must have been sucking up the heat from the motherboard. Lift an HR, place your palm on the bottom and you'll feel that warmth.
> 
> Rich


It was the 860. It's in my dock and not hot anymore, it is at room temperature. I did not have it above the MB when it was inside the HR24, but it was still hot to the touch.

As a trick on my owned HR24 receivers, I removed the four removable plastic cover clips, and the two interior hook clips so I can remove the cover easily when I need to. That's why I was able to remove cover so quickly, and observe the heat from the SSD after pulling the power cord.

On my owned HR54, I did the same with that version of clips. I put all the clips in Ziploc bags, and marked them accordingly, in the event I have to install them again for whatever reason (selling/replace under PP/etc.).


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> It was the 860. It's in my dock and not hot anymore, it is at room temperature. I did not have it above the MB when it was inside the HR24, but it was still hot to the touch.
> 
> *As a trick* on my owned HR24 receivers, I removed the four removable plastic cover clips, and the two interior hook clips so I can remove the cover easily when I need to. That's why I was able to remove cover so quickly, and observe the heat from the SSD after pulling the power cord.
> 
> On my owned HR54, I did the same with that version of clips. I put all the clips in Ziploc bags, and marked them accordingly, in the event I have to install them again for whatever reason (selling/replace under PP/etc.).


That's a great idea. I had no idea that could be done. Wish someone had come up with that 10 years ago. I don't think I'll ever open another box, much easier to use a dock. Damn, I wish I had thought of that. The most annoying thing about mounting an internal drive is getting the top off. Geez.

If you're not feeling that heat the SSD must have been sucking up heat from the inside of the box. What else could it be?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Geekzilla said:


> I've had 1TB SSDs installed internally in 2 HR24's for about 2 1/2 months now. I bought a 2.5-3.5 metal mounting adapter for the HR24-200 since it was just free floating above the motherboard but never got around to installing it because I saw no issues. It does seem like it will work great though.
> 
> I have a question for ColdCase or anyone else who knows. I've been thinking about the lack of cleanup time for our SSD's and was thinking about activating double play and having both tuners on 9501 and 9502 because there seems to be virtually no data involved. Would this for a few hours provide enough idle time for cleanup?


We did talk about this to some extent. Thing is, I'm trying to run the SSDs as I would run an HDD. I want to see when the problems start, if they start. I have a pretty good idea how long it takes for an HDD to get a bit wonky. I have no idea what's gonna happen with the SSDs.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Agreed Rich, it was getting heat from the motherboard and power supply inside of the box, but not hot enough to run the fan all the time. The fan was not running when I took the cover off. It’s much better now in the dock.

The other good news today is that my wife did not notice any freezing/pixelating during the day. She had several different channels on over several hours. That’s a good thing.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Agreed Rich, it was getting heat from the motherboard and power supply inside of the box, but not hot enough to run the fan all the time. The fan was not running when I took the cover off. It's much better now in the dock.
> 
> The other good news today is that my wife did not notice any freezing/pixelating during the day. She had several different channels on over several hours. That's a good thing.


The thing to look for if those video issues pop up are: Can you replicate them? If you can it's probably the broadcast, not the box. Do you see those issues on one channel and no others? Same answer, probably the broadcast. Do you see the issues on all channels and can't replicate most of them? Now you have a problem that probably points to the drive, HDD or SSD, assuming all other components and connections are functioning properly.

The SSDs we're using have a heat range of 0-70 degrees C.

Rich


----------



## ColdCase

Geekzilla said:


> I have a question for ColdCase or anyone else who knows. I've been thinking about the lack of cleanup time for our SSD's and was thinking about activating double play and having both tuners on 9501 and 9502 because there seems to be virtually no data involved. Would this for a few hours provide enough idle time for cleanup?


There is so much secrete sauce in SSD controllers and chip sets that one can't make a generalization with any confidence. Idle time, if effective for your specific model and firmware version, should be in terms of minutes not hours. You could run some specific laboratory controlled test.... but then may find that the SSDs you buy next month have revised firmware and operate differently .


----------



## slice1900

Rebooting your DVR provides a few minutes where no recording activity is taking place, while it is busy acquiring signal, doing the initial guide download etc. before it reaches the point where you can begin watching. There's also the test menu, if some of those interrupt the recording activity.

Of course Rich has been running SSDs in his HR24s for months on end without any problems, so what write activity there is may be slow enough to leave plenty of time for housekeeping. It is only writing a couple MB per second, after all, which is less than 1% what the SSD is capable of, so it isn't exactly working hard.


----------



## Rich

A couple months ago I had a 24-500 go bad and sent it in for a refurb. Got another 24-500. This one makes me think they don't do anything regarding refurbishment. It was slow and cranky when I activated it (this is the 24 that ATT couldn't activate for almost a week because they DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DO ACTIVATE IT) so I put another SSD on it in a dock. Now it works as the others do but it keeps crashing. Just happened again yesterday.

Here's why I'm writing all this: Each time the 24 has crashed I've either pulled the cord or hit the Red Button to get it to boot up. I haven't touched the dock. Each time it has booted up properly with the SSD. I don't think the same thing would happen if I tried that with an HDD in the dock. Thing is, I don't remember if I ever tried this with an HR with an HDD in a dock. Not sure if the HDD/dock would connect to the HR as the SSD/dock did. Does anyone remember having done this? 

Rich


----------



## codespy

I do that almost weekly Rich, and it works the same. On my owned HR54, I have a 6TB drive inside the DVR, and a 6TB drive in the dock. I have the separate drives for recording certain programs. Leaving the dock ‘on’, and rebooting the DVR will load the HD from the dock, and not the internal HD. Does that answer your question?


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I do that almost weekly Rich, and it works the same. On my owned HR54, I have a 6TB drive inside the DVR, and a 6TB drive in the dock. I have the separate drives for recording certain programs. Leaving the dock 'on', and rebooting the DVR will load the HD from the dock, and not the internal HD. Does that answer your question?


I have a slightly different situation. The 24-500 keeps shutting down or crashing. It becomes unresponsive and I have to use the Red Button or pull the plug to get it to boot up. But I can't see why that would be any different than what you're doing. I just don't remember ever doing this. I always shut both the dock and HR down and started them in the proper sequence. It seemed so odd I thought about taking an HDD and putting it in that dock just to see what would happen. You answered my question, thanx.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Not sure if it applies to DTV boxes but I have had hard drives go bad in a computer and the computer will not boot as long as that bad hard drive is in the computer. Not even from another drive. You might try removing the internal hard drive or unplugging the cables to it and see if the problem disappears.


----------



## codespy

Rich- do you have any 24-500 backup power supplies? I have a stock of parts I keep for my owned receivers. If you do, try swapping it and see if you’re problem persists.

I keep extra parts, with the exception of the motherboard (RID sensitive) so I can fix and save my recordings, instead of getting a full replacement in the event it’s just a fan/bezel/power supply issue.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Rich- do you have any 24-500 backup power supplies? I have a stock of parts I keep for my owned receivers. If you do, try swapping it and see if you're problem persists.
> 
> I keep extra parts, with the exception of the motherboard (RID sensitive) so I can fix and save my recordings, instead of getting a full replacement in the event it's just a fan/bezel/power supply issue.


Easier to get it replaced. Nothing on it I care about. My 44 did the same thing for quite awhile. Just crashed for no reason. I waited it out and after a couple NRs the problem went away. Might be the power supply on the 24-500, might just be a software problem. I'll wait for the next NR and if that doesn't fix it I'll get it replaced. I'm not using it for anything at the moment and I don't feel like calling for a replacement, just the thought of making that call disturbs me. Thanx for the suggestion.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Not sure if it applies to DTV boxes but I have had hard drives go bad in a computer and the computer will not boot as long as that bad hard drive is in the computer. Not even from another drive. You might try removing the internal hard drive or unplugging the cables to it and see if the problem disappears.


What I've seen using HDDs with HRs is the HDDs degrade over time. Just like most mechanical devices. When the degradation gets to the point where you start seeing a lot video and audio problems the HDDs _keep running_. And they'll keep running for quite some time and the problems will get worse. Running the tests on the HRs won't tell you if the HDD is degraded. You can see the difference in a new HDD and a degraded HDD by simply taking the degraded HDD out and inserting the new HDD. I've replaced a lot of HDDs that were still working because the HRs got so slow and wonky I had to do something. If you have an HR that is slow and difficult to use replacing the drive usually works. That's not gonna fix problems that are caused by the broadcast tho. If you can reproduce those audio and video problems it's probably not an HDD problem or a box problem. Assuming you don't have these problems on other HRs and all connections and devices are working properly.

Rich


----------



## Skypalace

For those leaving HDD's 'floating' on the cables, it will cause minor but noticeable performance degradation vs. hard-mounting them to the case or an enclosure. 

Among other things, I used to run an OS performance org at a very large Redmond-based software company, and was comparing IO performance of various hard drives. I was getting variances in seek times between identical drive models that came from the same batch. 

Turns out hard mounting them (vs. hanging on cables) sped up seek times 100% of the time. My theory (confirmed by the drive vendor) was that the (very high g) acceleration of the disk head during seek, was causing the free-floating drive to torque the opposite direction slightly, enough to impact the travel and settle time of the head.


----------



## slice1900

Skypalace said:


> For those leaving HDD's 'floating' on the cables, it will cause minor but noticeable performance degradation vs. hard-mounting them to the case or an enclosure.
> 
> Among other things, I used to run an OS performance org at a very large Redmond-based software company, and was comparing IO performance of various hard drives. I was getting variances in seek times between identical drive models that came from the same batch.
> 
> Turns out hard mounting them (vs. hanging on cables) sped up seek times 100% of the time. My theory (confirmed by the drive vendor) was that the (very high g) acceleration of the disk head during seek, was causing the free-floating drive to torque the opposite direction slightly, enough to impact the travel and settle time of the head.


Its worse than that, the vibrations induced in the head assembly from simply screaming a few feet from a hard drive will cause errors during reading or writing!


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Rich- do you have any 24-500 backup power supplies? I have a stock of parts I keep for my owned receivers. If you do, try swapping it and see if you're problem persists.
> 
> I keep extra parts, with the exception of the motherboard (RID sensitive) so I can fix and save my recordings, instead of getting a full replacement in the event it's just a fan/bezel/power supply issue.


That 24-500 is still running. It appears to be doing the same thing my 44 did a couple years ago, runs for quite some time and then crashes and is unresponsive. I really think this is a software issue, not the power supply. It's been running since before we had this discussion. I can't believe it's the power supply that's at fault. Every time I've had a power supply go bad I saw no blue lights on the front panel. And the HR was unresponsive, of course. No power, it's not gonna do anything. And I could never get one to boot up, this is a different experience. The 24-500 boots right up.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Okay. I currently have 4 HR24-500’s and mine are not crashing like yours, so I didn’t think it would be a software issue. That led me to think maybe a diode or capacitor or something may be failing on your IRD power supply, perhaps working fine for awhile, but then failing and reducing voltage to the motherboard causing a crash. It was just a thought.

How long after a reset does it work before crashing again?


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Okay. I currently have 4 HR24-500's and mine are not crashing like yours, so I didn't think it would be a software issue. That led me to think maybe a diode or capacitor or something may be failing on your IRD power supply, perhaps working fine for awhile, but then failing and reducing voltage to the motherboard causing a crash. It was just a thought.
> 
> How long after a reset does it work before crashing again?


Weeks. That's what makes me think an update screwed it up. Screwed up my 24-500, I mean. Doesn't mean every 24-500 is gonna be screwed up. As I said it's acting just the way my 44 did a couple years ago. Don't recall anybody else having a similar problem at that time with their 44s either.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

If an update screwed it up have you tried forcing it to do the update again?


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> If an update screwed it up have you tried forcing it to do the update again?


No. The 24-500 has nothing of value on it, don't really need it. I can wait for the next NR.

Rich


----------



## codespy

I don’t see a lot of new NR’s on the horizon for the 24 coming Rich, unless they start removing more features, which has been the trend.

The last update was last November, and nothing else has been put out in the testing world for a new NR that I have seen.

It may be worth it to do a 02468 on the next reboot......


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I don't see a lot of new NR's on the horizon for the 24 coming Rich, unless they start removing more features, which has been the trend.
> 
> The last update was last November, and nothing else has been put out in the testing world for a new NR that I have seen.
> 
> It may be worth it to do a 02468 on the next reboot......


Just did it.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich- What's the difference between the EVO compared to the QVO? The QVO 1TB is on sale for $108 on Amazon. Thoughts?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&creative=390957&linkCode=as2&tag=dealcatcher


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Rich- What's the difference between the EVO compared to the QVO? The QVO 1TB is on sale for $108 on Amazon. Thoughts?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...&creative=390957&linkCode=as2&tag=dealcatcher


I saw that too. I'm not the person that can answer your question, I had the same thought. I don't have the knowledge, but that's a damn good price.

Rich


----------



## Geekzilla

Rich said:


> I saw that too. I'm not the person that can answer your question, I had the same thought. I don't have the knowledge, but that's a damn good price.
> 
> Rich


The QVO is a less desirable drive. 3 year warranty for QVO vs 5 for EVO. Here's an excellent article at Anandtech on the QVO.


----------



## codespy

Geekzilla said:


> The QVO is a less desirable drive. 3 year warranty for QVO vs 5 for EVO. Here's an excellent article at Anandtech on the QVO.


Outside of the warranty thing, there was another note in the article that said this....

_'Two bit per cell MLC as used in the 860 PRO is now quite rare in the consumer SSD market and almost entirely absent from current enterprise SSD, having been largely replaced by three bit per cell TLC as used in the 860 EVO. With each increase in bits stored per cell, performance and write endurance decrease as SSDs need to be more careful to correctly discriminate between voltage levels, now up to 16 for QLC NAND.'
_
Unless I am reading it wrong, wouldn't that make the EVO less desirable?


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> I saw that too. I'm not the person that can answer your question, I had the same thought. I don't have the knowledge, but that's a damn good price.
> 
> Rich


I'm jumping in Rich, and going to try one out. If it doesn't work out on one of my HR24's, I can always use it on one of my PC's. Can't beat the price, plus I get free shipping and it arrives tomorrow!


----------



## ColdCase

The 860 QVO is currently on sale for $107 with free next day shipping (and sometimes less) at several places, like B&H and newegg, if you prefer a more reliable source than Amazon.


----------



## Geekzilla

codespy said:


> Outside of the warranty thing, there was another note in the article that said this....
> 
> _'Two bit per cell MLC as used in the 860 PRO is now quite rare in the consumer SSD market and almost entirely absent from current enterprise SSD, having been largely replaced by three bit per cell TLC as used in the 860 EVO. With each increase in bits stored per cell, performance and write endurance decrease as SSDs need to be more careful to correctly discriminate between voltage levels, now up to 16 for QLC NAND.'
> _
> Unless I am reading it wrong, wouldn't that make the EVO less desirable?


860 QVO = 4 bits per cell ($)
860 EVO = 3 bits per cell ($$)
860 PRO = 2 bits per cell ($$$)

From the article: With each increase in bits stored per cell, performance and write endurance decrease as SSDs need to be more careful to correctly discriminate between voltage levels, now up to 16 for QLC NAND.


----------



## Geekzilla

I've been thinking more about the differences in these drives and decided to check on one of the 1TB SSD's I installed in a HR24 last year and get real usage data as well as update the firmware. This is a 860 EVO 1TB that was brand new when I installed it.

Power on time = 110.5 days
Lifetime writes = 10.92TB

So it's writing about 100GB a day on average. The warranty on the 1TB QVO is 3 years or 360TBW, whichever comes first. So the QVO would take 9.8 years to max out the TBW data allowance, far longer than the 3 years which it would hopefully achieve first.

I think if I was installing another SSD in a DVR today with the current price difference of ~$40, I'd be willing to give the QVO a try based on this. I look forward to further reports here on that drives longevity.


----------



## codespy

My QVO got delivered at 8pm last night, I put it in at 9am this morning into an external dock. I’ve used it for the last 5 hours, customizing my settings/options. So far, it is working the same as my EVO I’ve had for a couple months now. I’ll report back in the future.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> My QVO got delivered at 8pm last night, I put it in at 9am this morning into an external dock. I've used it for the last 5 hours, customizing my settings/options. So far, it is working the same as my EVO I've had for a couple months now. I'll report back in the future.


I looked for a price on Amazon for the 2TB version, no joy. If the 2TB can be had at twice the price that's a good deal too. I paid $198 for the 1TB EVO SSD last August. Good to see the prices dropping.

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I don't see a lot of new NR's on the horizon for the 24 coming Rich, unless they start removing more features, which has been the trend.
> 
> The last update was last November, and nothing else has been put out in the testing world for a new NR that I have seen.
> 
> It may be worth it to do a 02468 on the next reboot......


I've done that twice since your post. The 24 still stopped a couple weeks ago. I'm gonna let it run just to see what happens.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> I looked for a price on Amazon for the 2TB version, no joy. If the 2TB can be had at twice the price that's a good deal too. I paid $198 for the 1TB EVO SSD last August. Good to see the prices dropping.
> 
> Rich


I just ordered 3 more yesterday for $107 each and they arrived today, the QVO that is. The one I got last week is working beautifully. In addition, Amazon had 7 new/refurbed ThermalTake easta docks, so I picked up 3 more before they run out. They are getting hard to find.


----------



## Rich

Rich said:


> I've done that twice since your post. The 24 still stopped a couple weeks ago. I'm gonna let it run just to see what happens.
> 
> Rich


The 24-500 crapped out again last night. When I reset the 24 the SSD was not picked up. I had to do the reset over in what I think is the proper way and it worked that time. I'm thinking of getting it replaced but the thought of calling those...people...bothers me. Easier to let it run.

It's been over 8 months since I installed the first SSD and I still see no video or audio problems on any of the 3 HRs I have SSDs on. Just a bit before I installed the first SSD I took a problematic 24-100 and wiped all the content off the HDD, did a CLEARMYBOX and a couple resets and let it run. The 100 resides in our living room and for several months worked almost as well as the HRs with SSDs. Now I'm starting to see the slowness creep back in and the 100 is getting to be a bit of a PITA. Wiping out the content seems to be about the extent of refurbishing D* does. It did work, for about a year. I'm gonna end up putting an SSD on the 100 too. Gotta find another dock first.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Loving my SSD’s on my HR24-100’s, -200’s and -500’s so far!


----------



## codespy

I also PM’d you on the dock.


----------



## WestDC

codespy said:


> I also PM'd you on the dock.


Why the Secret ?
:rage:


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Loving my SSD's on my HR24-100's, -200's and -500's so far!


That 24-100 that has begun to slow down has made me think. Will the same thing happen in a year or two? Will the SSDs slowly begin to degrade? No way to know unless someone that's had an SSD in an HR can jump in here and assure us it won't happen...anyone out there?...or do we have to wait?

Rich


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Why the Secret ?
> :rage:


I think there was only one left. Rather considerate of *codespy*, no? I know I appreciated the thought.

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Very informative read on the differences in SSD drives, Speed, Endurance and Capacity.
QLC NAND - What can we expect from the technology? | Architecting IT
1 paragraph from the link:
NAND Endurance - Figures courtesy of Micron.

P/E cycles for SLC were around 100,000, MLC around 10,000 and TLC around 1,000, although this figure has been improved by vendors. Each generation results in an order of magnitude worse endurance. For QLC we were expecting the figures to be around the 100 range. However, manufacturers have improved the resilience and we now see around 3,000 P/E cycles for TLC and 1,000 for QLC (figures taken from Micron Reviewers' Day, August 2018).

Second, as more data is stored in each cell, the contents must be read before writing, because the change to a single bit requires knowing what value was already present. A second effect is the change in voltage required to jump between bit states. This can cause instability in surrounding cells, so vendors use multiple steps to program QLC (as explained by Toshiba at their stand). As the technology has evolved, writing to SLC, MLC and TLC has therefore become progressively slower. QLC is even worse than previous generations, which has an impact on latency more than throughput.


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> Very informative read on the differences in SSD drives, Speed, Endurance and Capacity.
> QLC NAND - What can we expect from the technology? | Architecting IT
> 1 paragraph from the link:
> NAND Endurance - Figures courtesy of Micron.
> 
> P/E cycles for SLC were around 100,000, MLC around 10,000 and TLC around 1,000, although this figure has been improved by vendors. Each generation results in an order of magnitude worse endurance. For QLC we were expecting the figures to be around the 100 range. However, manufacturers have improved the resilience and we now see around 3,000 P/E cycles for TLC and 1,000 for QLC (figures taken from Micron Reviewers' Day, August 2018).
> 
> Second, as more data is stored in each cell, the contents must be read before writing, because the change to a single bit requires knowing what value was already present. A second effect is the change in voltage required to jump between bit states. This can cause instability in surrounding cells, so vendors use multiple steps to program QLC (as explained by Toshiba at their stand). As the technology has evolved, writing to SLC, MLC and TLC has therefore become progressively slower. QLC is even worse than previous generations, which has an impact on latency more than throughput.


Perhaps you could explain what the article meant in terms of how long we can rely on the SSDs in a way that an ordinary mortal can understand?

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> Perhaps you could explain what the article meant in terms of how long we can rely on the SSDs in a way that an ordinary mortal can understand?
> 
> Rich


I did not see a time ( possibly some of the terminology that I do not know what it means ). The key thing I read was that the more stored in one ? spec / space, the less reliable it gets.
The newer ones are doing that tech in order to put more memory in smaller spaces to increase volume.
For that reason the Evo is better than the Qvo.
The Evo is also faster than the Qvo.


----------



## jimmie57

This is about their life ( P/E Cycles )
P/E cycle. A *solid-state-storage program-erase cycle* is a sequence of events in which data is written to solid-state NAND flash memory cell (such as the type found in a so-called flash or thumb drive), then erased, and then rewritten. Program-erase (PE) cycles can serve as a criterion for quantifying the endurance of a flash storage device.


----------



## slice1900

TLC lasts a lot longer than 1000 cycles - those figures must be from before they started doing 3D NAND, which get density by building stacks of cells rather than by making cells smaller. They made the cells a lot bigger to avoid the short lifetimes of TLC and made QLC feasible - even it lasts for several thousand P/E cycles using 3D NAND.


----------



## jimmie57

slice1900 said:


> TLC lasts a lot longer than 1000 cycles - those figures must be from before they started doing 3D NAND, which get density by building stacks of cells rather than by making cells smaller. They made the cells a lot bigger to avoid the short lifetimes of TLC and made QLC feasible - even it lasts for several thousand P/E cycles using 3D NAND.


Posted on November 07, 2018 at 08:12 AM
Update: This post was originally published on 11 August 2017. It has since been updated to reflect the advances in QLC technology in the market.


----------



## slice1900

Elsewhere it says Micron reports 1000 P/E cycles for QLC now. I've seen higher figures elsewhere, but that may be different by manufacturer.


----------



## SledgeHammer

Rich said:


> Perhaps you could explain what the article meant in terms of how long we can rely on the SSDs in a way that an ordinary mortal can understand?
> 
> Rich


Samsung rates their drives in TBW (terabytes written). For the drive you have, it's 360TB. That's 360,000,000MB. The best case scenario for the drive is sequential writes @ 520MB/s.

If you do the math, it comes out to about 192 hours. That sounds low, because it is. That's a measly 8 days. In the real world in a DVR, you aren't going to be writing to the drive @ 520MB/s 24x7 and you aren't going to be doing sequential writes.

The random write speeds from the real world benchmarks seem to be closer to 128MB/s, so now you are at least up to 32 days of constant, non stop writing at all the speed the drive can muster.

You'd really have to know the writing pattern of the DVR to guess how long the SSD is going to last. At the end of the day its only rated for 360TB.

Compare that to mechanical drives that are generally rated for 1M hours = 41,666 days.

If you really wanted to get a very accurate number, I'd attach the SSD to a PC and let the Samsung Magician report its TBW. Then put it back in the DVR and let it run for a week and get the new TBW number. Then you'll know how many TBs/week you are writing to it. Assuming of course that SM will be able to pull the number off a DirecTV drive .


----------



## slice1900

SledgeHammer said:


> Samsung rates their drives in TBW (terabytes written). For the drive you have, it's 360TB. That's 360,000,000MB. The best case scenario for the drive is sequential writes @ 520MB/s.
> 
> If you do the math, it comes out to about 192 hours. That sounds low, because it is. That's a measly 8 days. In the real world in a DVR, you aren't going to be writing to the drive @ 520MB/s 24x7 and you aren't going to be doing sequential writes.


Directv's HD channels average about 6.5 Mbps, so if you put the drive in an HR24 and it is recording both tuners 24x7, that's 13 Mbps - or about seven years til it hits 360 TBW.

FWIW, Storage Report did some long term testing of SSDs a couple years and found most easily outlived their TBW rating. Some by 2-3x. There is always the possibility of some type of early failure of course, but that's true with mechanical hard drives as well. There's no reason to be concerned about wearing out a modern SSD in a DVR, the DVR (especially something that's already quite old like an HR24) is more likely to fail first. Or for its owner to leave Directv satellite first.


----------



## Rich

I really dislike learning curves, but I'm beginning to get it.

Rich


----------



## SledgeHammer

[


slice1900 said:


> Directv's HD channels average about 6.5 Mbps, so if you put the drive in an HR24 and it is recording both tuners 24x7, that's 13 Mbps - or about seven years til it hits 360 TBW.
> 
> FWIW, Storage Report did some long term testing of SSDs a couple years and found most easily outlived their TBW rating. Some by 2-3x. There is always the possibility of some type of early failure of course, but that's true with mechanical hard drives as well. There's no reason to be concerned about wearing out a modern SSD in a DVR, the DVR (especially something that's already quite old like an HR24) is more likely to fail first. Or for its owner to leave Directv satellite first.


Of course its going to last longer then the 32 days the math gives us . Regardless, the drive is being written to and read 24/7 regardless of if you are recording or not. DLB, guide data, house keeping, background tasks, etc. Obviously, the video is the 99% chunk.

If it takes 30 seconds to move the selection bar ONE grid on the guide, then the drive is way busy. Windows has a lot more background tasks going on, and it works with SATA3 drives just fine. It certainly doesn't get hung up like the HR24 does.

That's why I suggested Rich take the TBW reading for a week to find out how much its actually writing from all the going ons from his specific usage pattern.


----------



## Geekzilla

Earlier in this thread I reported my actual SSD usage #'s from an HR24. Average 100GB/day aka 0.1TB/day. That means 36.5TB per year so it should last about 10 years if your drive rated for 360TBW.


----------



## codespy

Rich- Two months later, and my QVO's are working flawless and very snappy on my HR24's. My other HR24's have regular HD's that are lagging compared to the QVO's.

Thanks for getting me addicted. At least this time, it is a good habit, not a bad one.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Rich- Two months later, and my QVO's are working flawless and very snappy on my HR24's. My other HR24's have regular HD's that are lagging compared to the QVO's.
> 
> Thanks for getting me addicted. At least this time, it is a good habit, not a bad one.


I'm seeing problems with the 24-100 in our living room. That has a Blue WD 1TB drive in it and I did everything I could think of to it about a year ago to get it back to where it was when it was new. What I did worked but it's getting slow again and nothing helps. Since I can't seem to give up D* I'm thinking about sticking a 2TB SSD on that. My wife uses that DVR and she keeps filling up the HDD which doesn't help. The SSD should take care of those problems. But I can't find a 2TB for sale under $200. Seen any?

I'm also having a problem has to be caused by the SSDs. I'm seeing very noticeable pauses in remote commands when I access the recordings from another HR. When I access recordings on the HR that did the recording I see no pauses. Doesn't matter much when watching something other than sports but it's a bit of a PITA when watching sports. Have you seen anything similar? I have absolutely no idea why this is happening, the only thing that has changed on my system is the SSDs. Nothing I've done mitigates this problem. I've had MRV from the gitgo, this has never happened.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

WD Blue 3D NAND 2TB PC SSD - SATA III 6 Gb/s, 2.5"/7mm - WDS200T2B0A *$199.99*


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> WD Blue 3D NAND 2TB PC SSD - SATA III 6 Gb/s, 2.5"/7mm - WDS200T2B0A *$199.99*


Bought it, thank you.

Rich


----------



## Rich

I did receive the WD 2TB SSD a few days ago. Installed it yesterday in a 24-100 that was getting slow and I was kinda surprised that it booted up as quickly as it did. Seems like a good drive. I recorded an afternoon ballgame and watched it. The 24-100 is working like it was brand new. Be interesting to see how it holds up with my wife using it. I know she will fill it up and I want to see what happens with a near full 2TB SSD. I know what happened with a full 500 GB SSD in another HR...nothing much. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

Rich said:


> I'm seeing problems with the 24-100 in our living room. That has a Blue WD 1TB drive in it and I did everything I could think of to it about a year ago to get it back to where it was when it was new. What I did worked but it's getting slow again and nothing helps. Since I can't seem to give up D* I'm thinking about sticking a 2TB SSD on that. My wife uses that DVR and she keeps filling up the HDD which doesn't help. The SSD should take care of those problems. But I can't find a 2TB for sale under $200. Seen any?
> 
> *I'm also having a problem has to be caused by the SSDs. I'm seeing very noticeable pauses in remote commands when I access the recordings from another HR.* When I access recordings on the HR that did the recording I see no pauses.  Doesn't matter much when watching something other than sports but it's a bit of a PITA when watching sports. Have you seen anything similar? I have absolutely no idea why this is happening, the only thing that has changed on my system is the SSDs. Nothing I've done mitigates this problem. I've had MRV from the gitgo, this has never happened.
> 
> Rich


So, am I the only one using SSDs that's seeing this?

Rich


----------



## Geekzilla

Rich said:


> So, am I the only one using SSDs that's seeing this?
> 
> Rich


Are you able to hook the SSD to a PC and get its' usage #'s and error reports? I like using Hard Disk Sentinel. If you try this, pay particular attention to the Performance and Health numbers when you first try it vs after a reboot or having it hooked to a pc for a while. On mine I thought one of those #'s was in the 70's when I first hooked up the drive and when I checked again it risen to 98%. My theory was the PC did some SSD housekeeping that the HR-24 doesn't do. I've been waiting for some signs of slowdown here to test the theory and better document the results, but thankfully everything is working swimmingly here.


----------



## 242424

I bought a dock, formatted a 500GB 2.5" drive I had just to test. Plugged it in to the esata, restarted and all it does is beep. Receiver never sees it. I assume I'm not doing something right?


----------



## codespy

242424 said:


> I bought a dock, formatted a 500GB 2.5" drive I had just to test. Plugged it in to the esata, restarted and all it does is beep. Receiver never sees it. I assume I'm not doing something right?


The 5 SSD drives I've put in this spring to my external dock, I never formatted them before installing. I install them right out of the box, and the HD-DVR automatically formatted them once they started booting up.

I typically cut power to DVR, then turned on dock, and after about 5-10 seconds, powered up DVR, just to make sure it read the external before the internal. Not sure if that would help your situation. I'm using TT esata docks, and Samsung SS drives.


----------



## 242424

codespy said:


> The 5 SSD drives I've put in this spring to my external dock, I never formatted them before installing. I install them right out of the box, and the HD-DVR automatically formatted them once they started booting up.
> 
> I typically cut power to DVR, then turned on dock, and after about 5-10 seconds, powered up DVR, just to make sure it read the external before the internal. Not sure if that would help your situation. I'm using TT esata docks, and Samsung SS drives.


That's the way I did it but my HD isn't knew. I thought I would just test things with a regular HD before I bought a SSD


----------



## codespy

Jump in and buy one like some of us did. You likely will be happy that you did. I started a couple of months ago after Rich’s suggestion, after interrogating his results, and I am extremely happy with the performance on my 24’s since.

I’m not doing my 54 at this point because I’ve already got double 6TB drives on those, and the big SSD’s get pricey...a little out of my range for our needs.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I'm also having a problem has to be caused by the SSDs. *I'm seeing very noticeable pauses in remote commands when I access the recordings from another HR. When I access *recordings on the HR that did the recording I see no pauses. Doesn't matter much when watching something other than sports but it's a bit of a PITA when watching sports. Have you seen anything similar? I have absolutely no idea why this is happening, the only thing that has changed on my system is the SSDs. Nothing I've done mitigates this problem. I've had MRV from the gitgo, this has never happened.
> 
> Rich


I don't think this has_ any_ to do with SSD.

DirecTV has been progressively (and frustratingly) slowing-down remote DVR access for the last several years.

When I first got the HR44 a few years back, I was amazed I could access recordings from an old HR21 and have almost _better_ trickplay than from that DVR itself!

For some reason though, things have slowed way down through MRV and one has to be much more patient these days. (Actually been that way to me for a couple years, more dramatically in the last year or so).

I still very much like the SSD, and it has really breathed new life into an ageing DVR.

(If you still really think it's the SSD, you could always try putting HDDs back in and see if your "delays" have improved.)


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I don't think this has_ any_ to do with SSD.
> 
> DirecTV has been progressively (and frustratingly) slowing-down remote DVR access for the last several years.
> 
> When I first got the HR44 a few years back, I was amazed I could access recordings from an old HR21 and have almost _better_ trickplay than from that DVR itself!
> 
> For some reason though, things have slowed way down through MRV and one has to be much more patient these days. (Actually been that way to me for a couple years, more dramatically in the last year or so).
> 
> I still very much like the SSD, and it has really breathed new life into an ageing DVR.
> 
> (If you still really think it's the SSD, you could always try putting HDDs back in and see if your "delays" have improved.)


I haven't done anything about the delays but complain about them. I do use a 24-100 that has an HDD in it and I do see the delays on that.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I haven't done anything about the delays but complain about them. I do use a 24-100 that has an HDD in it and I do see the delays on that.
> 
> Rich


I should also have added that conventional FF/RW through the network are more or less _unusable_ without a significant wait. Pause/play, no problem.

Best way to FF/RW is to only use 30SKIP and Replay buttons (or skip to next/previous tick mark).

Through the network I find that the skip ahead and replay button pushes will "stack" quite nicely.

(For example: 6 quick 30SKIP pushes will advance 3 minutes and not have to wait more than a second or two.)

I also think there could be a tendency to be "spoiled" by the relative quick-access of material from the online "streamers," as they start almost _instantly_ while we're still waiting 10-20 seconds for a DVR to begin a local network stream!

It definitely was not this bad a few years ago. It's been slowed way down for some reason, IMO most likely D* "bloatware."


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I should also have added that conventional FF/RW through the network are more or less _unusable_ without a significant wait. Pause/play, no problem.
> 
> Best way to FF/RW is to only use 30SKIP and Replay buttons (or skip to next/previous tick mark).
> 
> Through the network I find that the skip ahead and replay button pushes will "stack" quite nicely.
> 
> (For example: 6 quick 30SKIP pushes will advance 3 minutes and not have to wait more than a second or two.)
> 
> I also think there could be a tendency to be "spoiled" by the relative quick-access of material from the online "streamers," as they start almost _instantly_ while we're still waiting 10-20 seconds for a DVR to begin a local network stream!
> 
> It definitely was not this bad a few years ago. It's been slowed way down for some reason, IMO most likely D* "bloatware."


I put my first SSD on the 44 about 10 months ago. A couple months later I had 3 HRs with SSDs. That's when I started noticing the delays when using MRV. I've been blaming the software for years and as soon as I started using SSDs all those problems went away. But you might have a point, I have no idea why I'm seeing those delays.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Yesterday afternoon I turned on my HR44-700 for the first time in a couple days. I got a window that said, "Your Storage Device is Broken (words to that effect)!". Thought the SSD had gone South. Rebooted the 44 and all was well. Used it a bit last night and had no problems. Thought I might have a problem with the internal drive and tried rebooting the 44 without the SSD this morning. When I tried to turn the 44 on the front panel didn't light up. Had to do an RBR. The 44 came up as it should, the internal drive seems to be OK. Switched back to the SSD and that came up as it should. 

I'm not sure what's going on. I ran the system test and the only error was the telephone line wasn't connected. 

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> Yesterday afternoon I turned on my HR44-700 for the first time in a couple days. I got a window that said, "Your Storage Device is Broken (words to that effect)!". Thought the SSD had gone South. Rebooted the 44 and all was well. Used it a bit last night and had no problems. Thought I might have a problem with the internal drive and tried rebooting the 44 without the SSD this morning. When I tried to turn the 44 on the front panel didn't light up. Had to do an RBR. The 44 came up as it should, the internal drive seems to be OK. Switched back to the SSD and that came up as it should.
> 
> I'm not sure what's going on. I ran the system test and the only error was the telephone line wasn't connected.
> 
> Rich


Was there an error number ? It might have been a message from the SSD itself ?


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> Was there an error number ? It might have been a message from the SSD itself ?


Nope just a big message that said something about the HDD being "broken". Odd message. No error number. Not sure what the exact message was, I was more worried about what was happening at the time.
Both the SSD and the internal HDD are working correctly. Whatever it was a reboot seems to have corrected it. Just the idea of getting a message that anything was "broken" seems odd. Wish I would have taken a picture of it but it all happened so fast...

Rich


----------



## codespy

Usually when the HDD goes south and you reboot, the nag that comes on the screen indicates ‘there’s a problem with the storage device’, not the sentence that says it’s broken. That’s a new one for me too Rich, after 15 years of futzing with DVR’s.


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> Nope just a big message that said something about the HDD being "broken". Odd message. No error number. Not sure what the exact message was, I was more worried about what was happening at the time.
> Both the SSD and the internal HDD are working correctly. Whatever it was a reboot seems to have corrected it. Just the idea of getting a message that anything was "broken" seems odd. Wish I would have taken a picture of it but it all happened so fast...
> 
> Rich


I know for sure that my Seagate HDD put a message on my screen of my desktop computer about 2 years ago that said my hard drive was failing and I needed to back up my files. I searched the web and it said this was firmware located in the hard drive.

I found this on the web when I searched for SSD Broken.
SSD Corrupted or Broken?! Please read :(


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Usually when the HDD goes south and you reboot, the nag that comes on the screen indicates 'there's a problem with the storage device', not the sentence that says it's broken. That's a new one for me too Rich, after 15 years of futzing with DVR's.


Happened again yesterday. Definitely said "Your Hard Drive is Broken". Also allowed me to use other HRs for viewing on the 44 over MRV. I've never lost a drive on the 44 and I have no idea what the message should be or if this is new. I'm having a hard time believing the 1TB SSD is at fault. Each time this has happened I've rebooted and the 44 starts working properly.

So, I decided to switch to the newest Thermaltake dock, figuring a bad dock would/might cause the 44 to "think" the drive was bad. Hope it's that simple. So far the newer dock is working properly and the 44 hasn't crashed. Put the new dock on last night. If that doesn't help I have the new 2TB drive in hand and will put that on the 44 and put the 1TB SSD on another 24 and see if the same thing happens to the 24. Interesting problem.

Rich


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> I know for sure that my Seagate HDD put a message on my screen of my desktop computer about 2 years ago that said my hard drive was failing and I needed to back up my files. I searched the web and it said this was firmware located in the hard drive.
> 
> I found this on the web when I searched for SSD Broken.
> SSD Corrupted or Broken?! Please read :(


Thanks for the link. I saw this on one of the posts: _SSDs are quite different from mechanical storage. *When they fail, they fail, and you can't do anything about it.* It is pure electronics inside. Reformat cannot help here since the drive isn't recognised correctly at all, meaning that its controller likely failed. _

The 1TB SSD did not fail catastrophically as this post would have me believe. That gives me hope that the dock is the cause. Gonna take a day or two to make that determination. I can use the 44 in the normal manner, nothing seems to be adversely affected. I hope it's just a bad dock, that dock has to be from 2008-9, I would think, and was used heavily as were all my docks.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich, before you get to the point of putting the SSD inside the 44 if necessary, check the max operating temp for the SSD per MFR instructions. It can get pretty hot in those DVR’s, and the standard HD’s can dissipate heat better than the SSD’s. 

When I put one of my first SSD’s in my 24, I think it suffered a little heat damage and started to freeze/pixelate quite heavily after about two weeks. The variable speed fan inside the DVR was fine, but because of the hardware change along with thermostat readings/operation, it didn’t perform air circulation properly. Just my experience after trying it once.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Rich, before you get to the point of putting the SSD inside the 44 if necessary, check the max operating temp for the SSD per MFR instructions. It can get pretty hot in those DVR's, and the standard HD's can dissipate heat better than the SSD's.
> 
> When I put one of my first SSD's in my 24, I think it suffered a little heat damage and started to freeze/pixelate quite heavily after about two weeks. The variable speed fan inside the DVR was fine, but because of the hardware change along with thermostat readings/operation, it didn't perform air circulation properly. Just my experience after trying it once.


I don't want to put an SSD in any of my HRs. You've just given me another reason not to, good info. The 44 has been working as it should since I put the "new" dock on it with the 1TB SSD that seemed problematic. If this keeps up I will have to buy another dock. I'll let the 44 run for at least a week and if I don't see that "Your Hard Drive Is Broken" message again I will look for another dock.

About that message: I like it! Makes me hope they (D*) do away with numbered error messages and just plain tell folks what the problem is. "Your Internal Fan Has Expired" would tell me much more than some obscure error number.

Back to the "bad" dock. As I said, I'll wait a week and if I don't get that message again I'll assume the "old" dock is shot and go forward. If I get the message I'll give up on the 1TB SSD and put the new 2TB drive on the 44. I hope I don't have to do that. I don't see anything else I can do, there's nothing else that I can think of to do except try a different eSATA to SATA cord and I don't think there's anything wrong with that cord. I'm reasonably sure there's nothing wrong with the 1TB SSD either...I hope.

Rich


----------



## Rich

The dock I put on the 44 the other day seems to be working fine. I'm gonna put the dock I think is bad on a 24-100 and see if the same thing happens. I hope it happens in the same way. What I have to wonder about is will I see the usual error message or the "Your Hard Drive is Broken!" message? 

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Usually when the HDD goes south and you reboot, the nag that comes on the screen indicates 'there's a problem with the storage device', not the sentence that says it's broken. That's a new one for me too Rich, after 15 years of futzing with DVR's.


Gets even better, I put the dock in question on my 24-100 with a new 2TB SSD in the dock and I have not seen one warning about the hard drive being broken nor have I seen an error message about the storage device. Meanwhile the 1TB SSD that was in the dock in question is working perfectly in the new dock. What the hell happened? Is there something about the 44s and docks that I don't know about? I'm pretty sure I'll get that same issue if I swap the problematic back to the 44. At this point I'm almost certain there's no problem related to the SSDs. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, I have nothing. I'm stumped. As usual...

Rich


----------



## codespy

I would agree with you Rich. It may be a quirk in the 44 with that specific dock. I have a TT dock in my 54 for over two years now and no issues. In fact, I haven’t had a single Dock issue ever, especially with so many that I have in any of my DVR’s. I’d say ride it out and ding if you have any new issues.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I would agree with you Rich. It may be a quirk in the 44 with that specific dock. I have a TT dock in my 54 for over two years now and no issues. In fact, I haven't had a single Dock issue ever, especially with so many that I have in any of my DVR's. I'd say ride it out and ding if you have any new issues.


Pretty sure it is the "bad" dock that is causing this but I'd sure like to know why. Yeah, my docks have been pretty trouble free over the years. Using an HDD in them caused most of the issues I had and the SSDs don't seem to have any problems with the docks. Ridiculously easy to use an SSD in a dock compared to using an HDD in a dock. No connectivity problems at all with an SSD. I did have some issues with the Power buttons on a couple docks but quickly found out that was an ongoing problem with the TT docks at the time. They seem to have fixed that problem.

I'm tempted to switch the docks again just see if I get that warning again. Pretty sure I would.

Rich


----------



## VARTV

Just got an HR54 (with a C61K) several days ago. It is noticeably quicker than the old HR24 we had on it. I wouldn't mine spending "some" bucks on a SSD. Not really looking for capacity but even more snappiness. Any cons adding an external SSD?


----------



## b4pjoe

If your HR54 has an esata port on the back of it you can add an external drive and use it. Some have reported certain HR54's no longer have the esata port.


----------



## VARTV

b4pjoe said:


> If your HR54 has an esata port on the back of it you can add an external drive and use it. Some have reported certain HR54's no longer have the esata port.


It has a USB labeled port but it doesn't say "eSATA." Looking at photos on the internets, I don't...


----------



## b4pjoe

An eSata port looks like this. I don't think the USB port will work for an external HD.


----------



## Rich

VARTV said:


> It has a USB labeled port but it doesn't say "eSATA." Looking at photos on the internets, I don't...


You should be looking for a SATA port, the external devices will have an eSATA port. I think some of the 17s don't have a SATA port, didn't know the 54s had that problem. You would see it if it was there. To answer your prior question I've been running the SSDs on my HRs for almost a year and I see nothing negative about them. I have seen some mention about heat being a problem if the SSDs are mounted internally. I gave up on that idea when I saw how easy it is to mount them in docks externally. If that 54 really doesn't have an eSATA

But no "cons". Not one thing I can blame the SSDs for. Most of the problems I had have gone away. No more pixies, no audio drops. The HRs just work well now. In fact, I have more problems with my Apple TV boxes now than I do with my HRs. Never thought that would happen.

Rich


----------



## Rich

VARTV said:


> Just got an HR54 (with a C61K) several days ago. It is noticeably quicker than the old HR24 we had on it. I wouldn't mine spending "some" bucks on a SSD. *Not really looking for capacity* but even more snappiness. Any cons adding an external SSD?


That's key. If you were looking for more capacity the price of the SSDs becomes a problem. I just bought a 2TB WD Blue SSD a month or so ago. Paid exactly the same price that I paid for a 1TB Samsung EVO SSD 11 months ago. Both cost $199. Fortunately, like you, I have no interest in capacity. The EVO is on my 44 and the new WD Blue is on a 24-100 that my wife uses (and abuses). I want to see what happens to the WD drive, see if it can stand up to what it will be put thru.

Rich


----------



## VARTV

I appreciate the help. I guess I didn't win the HR54 lottery when it came to the SATA port...


----------



## b4pjoe

If you have a spare USB drive I would hook it up to the USB port and restart and see if it recognizes it. If it does it will initialize the drive and delete everything on it so don't use one with important stuff on it.


----------



## Rich

VARTV said:


> I appreciate the help. I guess I didn't win the HR54 lottery when it came to the SATA port...


Shame on D* for doing this. If that 54 were mine it would suddenly die and I'd get one with a SATA port. Why they do these things is beyond me.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> If you have a spare USB drive I would hook it up to the USB port and restart and see if it recognizes it. If it does it will initialize the drive and delete everything on it so don't use one with important stuff on it.


All the docks I have are both SATA and USB. Pretty sure you can't do what you suggest. Well, you can do it but I don't think it will work. Be nice if it did.

Rich


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> You should be looking for a SATA port, the external devices will have an eSATA port. I think some of the 17s don't have a SATA port, didn't know the 54s had that problem.


Both were redesigned around the same time with various changes like a different tuner chip and no eSATA port.


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> All the docks I have are both SATA and USB. Pretty sure you can't do what you suggest. Well, you can do it but I don't think it will work. Be nice if it did.
> 
> Rich


It wouldn't hurt to try unless/until we know for sure it doesn't work. They updated the USB port from 2.0 to 3.0 when they removed the eSATA port, there isn't really any reason to do so unless they were going to support attaching an external USB 3.0 hard drive. They sure as heck don't need a faster USB port for the AM21/LCC.


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> All the docks I have are both SATA and USB. Pretty sure you can't do what you suggest. Well, you can do it but I don't think it will work. Be nice if it did.
> 
> Rich


Well we won't know until someone tries it on the HR54 that does not have the SATA port. I know it wouldn't work on the DVR's that have the SATA port as I have tried that before. My HR54 has the SATA port on it so I doubt if it would work on mine. As Slice mentions they upgraded the USB to USB 3 when they removed the SATA port. Can't hurt to try it.


----------



## VARTV

Rich said:


> Shame on D* for doing this. If that 54 were mine it would suddenly die and I'd get one with a SATA port. Why they do these things is beyond me.
> 
> Rich


When the guy came out... on July 4th... switched everything out (last install was 2006-7). Then he realizes he has a HR44 and not a 54. He made a 45 minute round trip to get a 54. Wish I thought of the SATA port before...


----------



## VARTV

slice1900 said:


> It wouldn't hurt to try unless/until we know for sure it doesn't work. They updated the USB port from 2.0 to 3.0 when they removed the eSATA port, there isn't really any reason to do so unless they were going to support attaching an external USB 3.0 hard drive. They sure as heck don't need a faster USB port for the AM21/LCC.


I might be up to being a guinea pig...


----------



## 242424

So with a dock I need an eSATA to SATA cable for an HR-24 or eSATA to eSATA?


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> So with a dock I need an eSATA to SATA cable for an HR-24 or eSATA to eSATA?


The dock will come with an eSATA port and the proper cabling. It always works like this: eSATA devices feed SATA devices, think of it that way. So, a DVR would always have the SATA port and the *e*xternal device will always have the *e*SATA port. Simply put, SATA ports on DVRs, eSATA ports on external devices.

The "cabling" I mentioned above is a cable that runs from the eSATA port to the SATA port. They are not polarized but they do have to be put in one certain way.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Well we won't know until someone tries it on the HR54 that does not have the SATA port. I know it wouldn't work on the DVR's that have the SATA port as I have tried that before. My HR54 has the SATA port on it so I doubt if it would work on mine. As Slice mentions they upgraded the USB to USB 3 when they removed the SATA port. Can't hurt to try it.


Yup, that will satisfy our curiosity.

Rich


----------



## Rich

VARTV said:


> When the guy came out... on July 4th... switched everything out (last install was 2006-7). Then he realizes he has a HR44 and not a 54. He made a 45 minute round trip to get a 54. Wish I thought of the SATA port before...


Not many people would know the difference, certainly not your fault. Nor the installer's fault. D* has never supported the eSATA function. I guess that gives them the right to discontinue it's use. Dropping the eSATA port certainly is a quick path to that. Strikes me as thoughtless and inconsiderate but what corporation isn't?

Rich


----------



## nowandthen

I'm already noticing sluggish remote control response on my recently installed HR54. It's on been 9 days since install, and very few recordings on the hard drive. The HR54 was a refurb, and from what I have read, they don't do much other than clear the content on the hard drive. Good news is my HR54 has the SATA port.


----------



## VARTV

nowandthen said:


> I'm already noticing sluggish remote control response on my recently installed HR54. It's on been 9 days since install, and very few recordings on the hard drive. The HR54 was a refurb, and from what I have read, they don't do much other than clear the content on the hard drive. Good news is my HR54 has the SATA port.


I have a HR54-500. Do you have a 200, 500 or 700?


----------



## Rich

nowandthen said:


> I'm already noticing sluggish remote control response on my recently installed HR54. It's on been 9 days since install, and very few recordings on the hard drive. The HR54 was a refurb, and from what I have read, they don't do much other than clear the content on the hard drive. Good news is my HR54 has the SATA port.


Yup, you have a refurbed 54. That means they just wiped out all the content on the internal drive and reformatted it. I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe they ever replace the internal HDDs with new HDDs. What you are seeing is normal, you need a new drive.

Rich


----------



## Rich

VARTV said:


> I have a HR54-500. Do you have a 200, 500 or 700?


I would really like to see you or somebody try that USB-3 port. Of course you'd have to have an external device that supports USB-3. Wonder if they even exist...isn't "USB-3" USB C? Not sure we are using the correct term. Anyhow, found this on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Enclo...ateway&sprefix=usb+c+external+,aps,139&sr=8-6

This would seem to be the answer. Wish I had a 54 without the eSATA port. Interesting.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

USB C has the round plug.










Your link is USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C. Plugs into a regular USB 3 port (the end with the blue in it) to the hard drive that has the USB C port










You can also get a USB 3 hard drive with this port.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

I've got one of those Thermaltake USB-only docks. It definitely handles USB 3 speeds when connected to a "modern-era" computer.

I've never tried connecting any USB device to a DirecTV H/HR unit, though.

Would be nice if someone were to "guinea pig" a new HR with a USB 3 on it...(I don't have one).

I had ordered another SSD with a different enclosure that has eSATA and USB3 for use with the HR44's eSATA port.

Sadly, the firmware for the HR44 was crappy to the point about a year ago I stopped using it altogether, so those items are still waiting around for me to connect them to something. 

I've tested the enclosure on a PC and it's really cool. (I think it's linked somewhere in this thread.)

For what it's worth, the 500 gig SSD I connected to an old HR21 with a Thermaltake dock is still cooking along nicely since December, with only a few "weird experiences" along the way.


----------



## nowandthen

VARTV said:


> I have a HR54-500. Do you have a 200, 500 or 700?


 HR54/200


----------



## nowandthen

Rich said:


> Yup, you have a refurbed 54. That means they just wiped out all the content on the internal drive and reformatted it. I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe they ever replace the internal HDDs with new HDDs. What you are seeing is normal, you need a new drive.
> 
> Rich


To be more specific, skip to tick is what's really slow, everything else seems to be pretty responsive,but from all I have read, it's only a matter of time before things get worse.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> USB C has the round plug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your link is USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C. Plugs into a regular USB 3 port (the end with the blue in it) to the hard drive that has the USB C port
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also get a USB 3 hard drive with this port.


I have some USB C devices, I was wondering about the proper term. Guess it's USB C.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I've got one of those Thermaltake USB-only docks. It definitely handles USB 3 speeds when connected to a "modern-era" computer.
> 
> I've never tried connecting any USB device to a DirecTV H/HR unit, though.
> 
> Would be nice if someone were to "guinea pig" a new HR with a USB 3 on it...(I don't have one).
> 
> I had ordered another SSD with a different enclosure that has eSATA and USB3 for use with the HR44's eSATA port.
> 
> Sadly, the firmware for the HR44 was crappy to the point about a year ago I stopped using it altogether, so those items are still waiting around for me to connect them to something.
> 
> I've tested the enclosure on a PC and it's really cool. (I think it's linked somewhere in this thread.)
> 
> For what it's worth, the 500 gig SSD I connected to an old HR21 with a Thermaltake dock is still cooking along nicely since December, with only a few "weird experiences" along the way.


What's wrong with your 44? Mine seems to be working splendidly.

Rich


----------



## Rich

nowandthen said:


> To be more specific, skip to tick is what's really slow, everything else seems to be pretty responsive,but from all I have read, it's only a matter of time before things get worse.


Yup, once they start slowing down it just gets worse. Fixing that is easy.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> What's wrong with your 44? Mine seems to be working splendidly.
> 
> Rich


Very little use for it with all its firmware flaws.

To the best of my knowledge 1037 only had the "all channels" bug (which wasn't a problem for me). Nothing else was wrong with it.

Don't know if that bug was ever fixed, but subsequent versions 1088 and 1106 (IIRC) added playlist navigation issues, missing recordings problems and broke the CC.

Like I said, little (I'd add maybe even NO) use for it.

I glad for you if you don't have any of those issues.

For me I absolutely *must* have a properly navigable playlist and the CC has to work.

Useless to me otherwise.


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Very little use for it with all its firmware flaws.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge 1037 only had the "all channels" bug (which wasn't a problem for me). Nothing else was wrong with it.
> 
> Don't know if that bug was ever fixed, but subsequent versions 1088 and 1106 (IIRC) added playlist navigation issues, missing recordings problems and broke the CC.
> 
> Like I said, little (I'd add maybe even NO) use for it.
> 
> I glad for you if you don't have any of those issues.
> 
> For me I absolutely *must* have a properly navigable playlist and the CC has to work.
> 
> Useless to me otherwise.


I get all that. The new GUI annoys me too. Damn shame to do that to what I think is a great DVR. Yesterday I went to the 44 to watch the Yankee game and the Playlist on the 44 only had one game on it. For a change it was a game the 44 had recorded but I was puzzled because my 24s have gotten into the habit of recording the games of the Yankees and Mets. No Mets game and only one Yankees game. Couple hours later I went to another room with a 24 and found several more games on that Playlist. Obviously, the missing program thing is getting bad again. I've never been a big fan of the Genies. Still don't see my 44 as an "upgrade".

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I get all that. The new GUI annoys me too. *Damn shame to do that to what I think is a great DVR.* Yesterday I went to the 44 to watch the Yankee game and the Playlist on the 44 only had one game on it. For a change it was a game the 44 had recorded but I was puzzled because my 24s have gotten into the habit of recording the games of the Yankees and Mets. No Mets game and only one Yankees game. Couple hours later I went to another room with a 24 and found several more games on that Playlist. Obviously, the missing program thing is getting bad again. I've never been a big fan of the Genies. Still don't see my 44 as an "upgrade".
> 
> Rich


Agree it was a pretty decent DVR

I thought they had that new UI about as good as it was ever gonna get with 1037.

Probably too many people complained about the text size or something, so they went and royally screwed-up the entire UI introducing all the new "bugs" including broken CC and losing your place in the playlist, etc...

There wasn't anything _wrong_ with the text size. I could read it perfectly well on a 30" CRT from 12ft away through the analog inputs!

I was even eventually ok with the progress bar too. If your screen is good enough you can see through the shroud just fine. It goes away after 1 and a half seconds anyway...

I also appreciated channel logos in the guide, more lines etc...

I could type pages, but this is the SSD thread.

Getting back to that, the old 21 is getting reliably wonky every eight to 10 days. Can't say for certain it's the SSD, but I don't really care. Runs better and boots faster, so I'll probably keep resetting it and use the SSD 'till it quits.

One time it came back with a storage error, so I unplugged everything, re-seated the drive and cables in the dock and all was well again. Settings and recordings still there.

There's still an old internal 1.5 from 2009 in it. At some point I'll probably run it and see if the HR still gets wonky.

After I quit using the 44, there was time to watch-down two larger external drives on the 21 then stick the SSD into its dock.

Haven't really looked back (or even _at_ that 44) 'till lately. It's still got 1037 in it and I can watch all the recordings, while navigating the playlist properly, CC and subtitles working as they should.

I'd probably have to go back to using it if the 21 finally craps out.


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Agree it was a pretty decent DVR
> 
> I thought they had that new UI about as good as it was ever gonna get with 1037.
> 
> Probably too many people complained about the text size or something, so they went and royally screwed-up the entire UI introducing all the new "bugs" including broken CC and losing your place in the playlist, etc...
> 
> There wasn't anything _wrong_ with the text size. I could read it perfectly well on a 30" CRT from 12ft away through the analog inputs!
> 
> I was even eventually ok with the progress bar too. If your screen is good enough you can see through the shroud just fine. It goes away after 1 and a half seconds anyway...
> 
> I also appreciated channel logos in the guide, more lines etc...
> 
> I could type pages, but this is the SSD thread.
> 
> Getting back to that, the old 21 is getting reliably wonky every eight to 10 days. Can't say for certain it's the SSD, but I don't really care. Runs better and boots faster, so I'll probably keep resetting it and use the SSD 'till it quits.
> 
> One time it came back with a storage error, so I unplugged everything, re-seated the drive and cables in the dock and all was well again. Settings and recordings still there.
> 
> There's still an old internal 1.5 from 2009 in it. At some point I'll probably run it and see if the HR still gets wonky.
> 
> After I quit using the 44, there was time to watch-down two larger external drives on the 21 then stick the SSD into its dock.
> 
> Haven't really looked back (or even _at_ that 44) 'till lately. It's still got 1037 in it and I can watch all the recordings, while navigating the playlist properly, CC and subtitles working as they should.
> 
> I'd probably have to go back to using it if the 21 finally craps out.


I think the 44s are more than a decent DVR. I think my 44 is absolutely the best DVR I've ever had. But I get the frustration. D* screwed up a fine DVR. That GUI is...ever notice I rarely swear here? I can't bring myself to write what I really think of that thing. I'd have to drop F bombs all over the place.

Putting an SSD in a 24 isn't gonna fix everything. I have a 24-200 with a 500 GB SSD on it and the damn thing keeps skipping to the end of a recording randomly. Not a big deal if you're not dealing with sports but it's a huge deal if it skips to the end of a game and shows the score. Pretty sure this is a firmware problem, not gonna blame the SSD.

How long have you had that 21? I'd be looking at replacing that with a 24. Stick that SSD on a 24 and it will fly.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I think the 44s are more than a decent DVR. I think my 44 is absolutely the best DVR I've ever had. But I get the frustration. D* screwed up a fine DVR. That GUI is...ever notice I rarely swear here? I can't bring myself to write what I really think of that thing. I'd have to drop F bombs all over the place.
> 
> Putting an SSD in a 24 isn't gonna fix everything. I have a 24-200 with a 500 GB SSD on it and the damn thing keeps skipping to the end of a recording randomly. Not a big deal if you're not dealing with sports but it's a huge deal if it skips to the end of a game and shows the score. Pretty sure this is a firmware problem, not gonna blame the SSD.
> 
> How long have you had that 21? I'd be looking at replacing that with a 24. Stick that SSD on a 24 and it will fly.
> 
> Rich


Yup, the only thing wrong with the 44s is the UI. I've simply no use for it (above 1037).

(I was even able to get past one of your frustrations - progress bar popping up on 30SKIP - by enjoying watching it move as the skips accumulated when stacking them.)

Otherwise a fine DVR than the broken pieces of the new UI.

The 21's been around since Q3 2007. Most reliable (other than the 20/700 same vintage) I've ever used, just *slow*. Other than that it still does almost everything it's supposed to without fail.

(The 20 with its original HDD in it _still_ runs circles around it!)

SSD only made the 21 usable again.

I had considered getting 24s for a while until folks around here started reporting slowdowns and other problems, making them sound more like (or even worse than) a 21.

It wasn't until your more recent idea of SSDs I would even consider it.

Nowadays I'm thinking as long as the 20/21s ain't broke, I want _nothing_ to do with hassling with T to try and replace them with 24s.

I would have to consider paying up and working through Solid Signal and I'm not quite there, yet. (Not even sure they can work with T accounts, yet.)


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Yup, the only thing wrong with the 44s is the UI. I've simply no use for it (above 1037).
> 
> (I was even able to get past one of your frustrations - progress bar popping up on 30SKIP - by enjoying watching it move as the skips accumulated when stacking them.)
> 
> Otherwise a fine DVR than the broken pieces of the new UI.
> 
> The 21's been around since Q3 2007. Most reliable (other than the 20/700 same vintage) I've ever used, just *slow*. Other than that it still does almost everything it's supposed to without fail.
> 
> (The 20 with its original HDD in it _still_ runs circles around it!)
> 
> SSD only made the 21 usable again.
> 
> I had considered getting 24s for a while until folks around here started reporting slowdowns and other problems, making them sound more like (or even worse than) a 21.
> 
> It wasn't until your more recent idea of SSDs I would even consider it.
> 
> Nowadays I'm thinking as long as the 20/21s ain't broke, I want _nothing_ to do with hassling with T to try and replace them with 24s.
> 
> I would have to consider paying up and working through Solid Signal and I'm not quite there, yet. (Not even sure they can work with T accounts, yet.)


I doubt D* would give you a hard time about replacing the 21. I'm surprised the 21 is still working. Tell them the lights on the front don't come on and it looks dead. Nothing helps. You'll get a 24 and it might be slow. Stick that SSD on it and you'll see what a brand new 24 must have worked like. I doubt Solid Signal puts new HDDs in the 24s they sell. Not sure. That's the problem, all the 24s with original HDDs in them are gonna be slow. I see nothing else wrong with them.

Rich


----------



## 242424

The eSATA to SATA cable I got won't plug into my HR-24. I even took the 24 out of the cabinet and tried


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> The eSATA to SATA cable I got won't plug into my HR-24. I even took the 24 out of the cabinet and tried


There is a "top" and "bottom" to the connectors on those cables. If you can't get it into the SATA port turn the connector over and it should plug right in. Same thing with the eSATA port on the external device.

Rich


----------



## 242424

Rich said:


> There is a "top" and "bottom" to the connectors on those cables. If you can't get it into the SATA port turn the connector over and it should plug right in. Same thing with the eSATA port on the external device.
> 
> Rich


Thanks but I turned it both ways multiple times.


----------



## b4pjoe

Can you post a photo of the ends of the cable?


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> Thanks but I turned it both ways multiple times.


I'd like to see a photo of that cable too. Does that cable seem stiffer than most cables?

Rich


----------



## 242424

b4pjoe said:


> Can you post a photo of the ends of the cable?


Here's the one I bought


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> Here's the one I bought


Does that cable fit into your dock? Or are you having problems connecting to both the eSATA and SATA ports? I have one on my SATA cables in my hand and your cable connectors seem to be a bit larger than mine. Let me check Amazon...look at this cable from the same maker: https://www.amazon.com/SATA-VANDESA...ii+cables&qid=1563555605&s=electronics&sr=1-5.

That cable seems more like the cable I have in my hand. I've had this/these cables for quite a few years. Note the cable you bought is for SATA 3 and the cable in the link is for SATA 2. Not sure if they are backwards compatible...let me check on that...hmm. Some say they are backwards compatible, some don't. The cable I linked to above looks like the cable I have in my hand. You might want to send yours back and try the cable I linked to above.

Rich


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> Here's the one I bought


Wow! None of the cables I'm looking at look like my SATA cables. Connector-wise, I mean. Slight differences but enough to make me wonder if any of them would fit our HRs.

Rich


----------



## 242424

Yeah it fits in the dock alright. Too late to send it back, I pried off the the lock in case that was keeping it from fitting  I'll look more into it later, kind of busy for the next few weeks. Thanks


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> Yeah it fits in the dock alright. Too late to send it back, I pried off the the lock in case that was keeping it from fitting  I'll look more into it later, kind of busy for the next few weeks. Thanks


No, don't send it back. If the connector fits in the eSATA port it should fit in the SATA port. You might have a damaged SATA port on the HR. You did try both ends of the cable in the eSATA port right? Both fit? There is no physical difference in those two ports, what fits in one will/should fit in the other.

Rich


----------



## 242424

Rich said:


> No, don't send it back. If the connector fits in the eSATA port it should fit in the SATA port. You might have a damaged SATA port on the HR. You did try both ends of the cable in the eSATA port right? Both fit? There is no physical difference in those two ports, what fits in one will/should fit in the other.
> 
> Rich


You probably won't believe this but here goes anyway.......Even though the port on the HR24 says SATA it's an eSATA port. I plugged an eSATA to eSATA cable into it to make sure. Didn't work though, my dock just beeps and it boots to the internal HD.


----------



## unixguru

Rich said:


> No, don't send it back. If the connector fits in the eSATA port it should fit in the SATA port. You might have a damaged SATA port on the HR. You did try both ends of the cable in the eSATA port right? Both fit? There is no physical difference in those two ports, what fits in one will/should fit in the other.



Technically, SATA and eSATA are electrically the same but they are physically different. See https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-eSATA-Transition-P952-003/dp/B00119P6SU

The "SATA port", as an external connector, is an eSATA port. A "SATA port" should only exist for internal connections and is what a raw drive has.

The red cable looks to me like an eSTAT to SATA cable. Despite what the label on the boxes say, they should both be eSTAT ports so you need an eSATA to eSATA cable. If you look at the Amazon link you will see that true SATA has an L-shaped slot.


----------



## Rich

unixguru said:


> Technically, SATA and eSATA are electrically the same but they are physically different. See https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-eSATA-Transition-P952-003/dp/B00119P6SU
> 
> The "SATA port", as an external connector, is an eSATA port. A "SATA port" should only exist for internal connections and is what a raw drive has.
> 
> The red cable looks to me like an eSTAT to SATA cable. Despite what the label on the boxes say, they should both be eSTAT ports so you need an eSATA to eSATA cable. If you look at the Amazon link you will see that true SATA has an L-shaped slot.


In the link the connector on the right is what the connectors are supposed to look like. Here's a link to an eSATA to eSATA cable, which is, I think, the proper cable. That is exactly what my cables look like. Thanx for the link, I had no idea the cables were supposed to be eSATA to eSATA. All the cables I have are the cables that came with the docks. I like days that I learn something new. Thanx again.

Rich


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> You probably won't believe this but here goes anyway.......Even though the port on the HR24 says SATA it's an eSATA port. I plugged an eSATA to eSATA cable into it to make sure. Didn't work though, my dock just beeps and it boots to the internal HD.


Okay, this is the cable you want. Never had to buy one, all the cables I have came with the docks. Here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...&s=gateway&sprefix=esata+to+es,aps,137&sr=8-4

Rich


----------



## 242424

Yeah I had one of those. Like I said my dock just beeps and it boots to the internal drive. I may try some other stuff at another time, I was just seeing if i could get it to boot on a 2.5" drive i had before I shelled out the $$ for a SSD


----------



## b4pjoe

242424 said:


> Yeah I had one of those. Like I said my dock just beeps and it boots to the internal drive. I may try some other stuff at another time, I was just seeing if i could get it to boot on a 2.5" drive i had before I shelled out the $$ for a SSD


Make sure you unplug the DVR. Plug the drive in and let it spin up completely and then plug in the DVR and see if it will then boot off the external.


----------



## 242424

Thanks, I did that. I don't get the beeping of the dock? Crazy

Edit:

Here's what I have

Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U SATA Hard Drive Docking Station eSata & USB2


----------



## jimmie57

242424 said:


> Thanks, I did that. I don't get the beeping of the dock? Crazy


I have never done this but read a lot of posts about it.
I did not try to read all past posts.
Question: Did you unplug the HR from the 120 volt power, then start up the external drive with the cable connected and let it spin for a couple of minutes and then plug the HR back into the power ?


----------



## 242424

jimmie57 said:


> I have never done this but read a lot of posts about it.
> I did not try to read all past posts.
> Question: Did you unplug the HR from the 120 volt power, then start up the external drive with the cable connected and let it spin for a couple of minutes and then plug the HR back into the power ?


Maybe not a couple minutes but I did power up the dock first.


----------



## unixguru

Rich said:


> In the link the connector on the right is what the connectors are supposed to look like. Here's a link to an eSATA to eSATA cable, which is, I think, the proper cable. That is exactly what my cables look like. Thanx for the link, I had no idea the cables were supposed to be eSATA to eSATA. All the cables I have are the cables that came with the docks. I like days that I learn something new. Thanx again.



It is unfortunately confusing. The SATA connector was not originally intended to have an external form. The internal SATA shape is designed for hot-plug, at least in enterprise uses (and BTW is also used by SAS drives).

Then somebody decided it would be cool to externalize SATA and they invented the eSATA variant. I don't recall (and am to lazy to research) why it was decided that it had to be physically different. I suppose because external cables are subject to more abuse. Maybe a difference in retention spring/clip.

Then vendors (D* included) came along and stuck a "SATA" label on an eSATA port. 

External eSATA drive enclosures (and docks) would correctly assume that they would be plugging into eSATA and would therefore provide cables for that.

Note that anyone that wants to temporarily (?!) connect a _bare drive_ directly would need the eSATA <-> SATA cable.


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> Maybe not a couple minutes but I did power up the dock first.


Docks with HDDs in them seem to have difficulties connecting to the HRs at times. You might try another HDD if you have one.

One of the perks you get when using an SSD in these docks is how easily the connection between the HR and the dock is made.

You might have a bad dock, that beep is something I've never heard. If you stick an SSD in that dock you should know right away if the dock is good or bad. If it can't connect it's the dock. Every failure I've had has been caused by the Power button on the back. They fail open and it's really not worth trying to jump the switch out. That hasn't happened for a few years.

Rich


----------



## Rich

unixguru said:


> It is unfortunately confusing. The SATA connector was not originally intended to have an external form. The internal SATA shape is designed for hot-plug, at least in enterprise uses (and BTW is also used by SAS drives).
> 
> Then somebody decided it would be cool to externalize SATA and they invented the eSATA variant. I don't recall (and am to lazy to research) why it was decided that it had to be physically different. I suppose because external cables are subject to more abuse. Maybe a difference in retention spring/clip.
> 
> Then vendors (D* included) came along and stuck a "SATA" label on an eSATA port.
> 
> External eSATA drive enclosures (and docks) would correctly assume that they would be plugging into eSATA and would therefore provide cables for that.
> 
> Note that anyone that wants to temporarily (?!) connect a _bare drive_ directly would need the eSATA <-> SATA cable.


Thanks, great post. I don't recall ever having a bad SATA cable and if I had to order one I would have done the same thing. This is the first I've heard of this and I read damn near every post about external drives. So, nobody ever bought one before the purchase noted here in this thread? Amazing.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

If memory serves, I think P Smith used to mention the eSATA to SATA cable which could be used on an enclosure where a drive could be externally-powered by the enclosure and then one could "fish" the SATA end directly through a hole in the enclosure to the HDD.

(To be used in the situation of not being able to find an enclosure with an eSATA port.)


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> If memory serves, I think P Smith used to mention the eSATA to SATA cable which could be used on an enclosure where a drive could be externally-powered by the enclosure and then one could "fish" the SATA end directly through a hole in the enclosure to the HDD.
> 
> (To be used in the situation of not being able to find an enclosure with an eSATA port.)


I do remember him talking about that. Didn't pay any attention to it, always bought enclosures that had the proper port and they all came with the right cables. Take a few of the HRs apart and it becomes pretty obvious that would work. If you were gonna do that wouldn't it be easier to just mount the HDD in the HR itself?

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I do remember him talking about that. Didn't pay any attention to it, always bought enclosures that had the proper port and they all came with the right cables. Take a few of the HRs apart and it becomes pretty obvious that would work. If you were gonna do that *wouldn't it be easier to just mount the HDD in the HR itself?*
> 
> Rich


I suppose it would be (on the modern HRs with clips at least). Maybe not so much with the older ones (with all the safety torx and whatnot)...

Other than the 44, I've never opened an HR.

Docks are the best, I think (certainly the most convenient).

I've got an aluminum enclosure (with eSATA) I haven't tried on an HR yet. Linked somewhere in this thread. I've tried it USB on a PC and it's pretty slick.

If I ever get the 44 going again I'd probably use it there with an SSD.

In the meantime if I wanted to I suppose I could test that aluminum job on the old HR that has the dock with the SSD there to make sure it works...


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I suppose it would be (on the modern HRs with clips at least). Maybe not so much with the older ones (with all the safety torx and whatnot)...
> 
> Other than the 44, I've never opened an HR.
> 
> Docks are the best, I think (certainly the most convenient).
> 
> I've got an aluminum enclosure (with eSATA) I haven't tried on an HR yet. Linked somewhere in this thread. I've tried it USB on a PC and it's pretty slick.
> 
> If I ever get the 44 going again I'd probably use it there with an SSD.
> 
> In the meantime if I wanted to I suppose I could test that aluminum job on the old HR that has the dock with the SSD there to make sure it works...


Takes me no more than a half hour to put in internal HDD in any HR. Hard the first time and then it get a lot easier. Getting the top off is the hardest part.

Stick an SSD in that enclosure and put it on an old HR...boy, are you in for a surprise!

Rich


----------



## Rich

It's been eleven months since I started this thread. I have nothing negative to say about the SSDs. The first SSD went on my 44 and that DVR is running so well that I use it frequently. Was using it a couple days ago and noticed the SSD was almost full. I looked at the meter on the bottom of the Playlist and saw I only had 9% left. Not one indication of that on the 44 at all, no video or audio breakups. I had no idea it was that full.
Last time that happened it was about 75% full and I had all kinds of problems and that was with a 3TB HDD internal drive. I always had problems with the 44 that I blamed on software and the broadcasts. Now the problems are gone. 

I do have issues with the 24-200. It tends to skip to the end of recordings for no reason. Always did that no matter what kind of drive I had on it. Other than that it runs well. I don't think I can blame that on the SSDs, I have had that problem on some HRs and the problem goes away. Never could figure out what to do about it. PITA when watching a ball game. Point is, putting an SSD in an HR will solve a lot of problems but not all of them. I've swapped SSDs on that 24-200 and the same thing happens, it skips to the end of a recording randomly for no reason that I can see. It was doing the same thing when I had a 2TB HDD on it. 

I recently put a 2TB SSD (WD Blue SSD) on one of our 24-100s that was getting slow and that is running really well. When the prices go down I might put 2TBs on all the 24s and I should stick one on the 44. Kinda upset me when I found the drive almost full, boxing matches are recorded for 6 hours and I need more room for them.

All in all, I'm satisfied. I keep thinking I could have done the same thing with new HDDs but I put a new 3TB in the 44 the day I got it and I still had problems with the 44 from that point on. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

It's just over a year since I put the 1TB EVO in my 44 and the 44 is still working better than ever. Still no audio drops or issues with pixies. Doesn't seem to matter how full the SSD is. No complaints. Well worth every penny I spent on it. 

I mentioned the problems I was having with my 24-200 in a previous post. I didn't think the problems were caused by the 500 GB drive on it but I was worried about that. Ended up taking the 500 GB SSD off my 24-500 and putting it on the 24-200. Put the 200's SSD on the 24-500. Still have the same issue with the 24-200, pretty sure neither SSD is causing those issues. Just a wonky 24-200.

I have no complaints. If I still recorded a lot of programming I'd spring for 2TB WD Blue SSDs and put one on every HR. The HRs run so well using SSDs...well, you have to see it to appreciate it. I really like the 2TB WD Blue I put on a slow 24-100, seems to be the best drive out of the four I've bought performance wise.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Rich said:


> It's just over a year since I put the 1TB EVO in my 44 and the 44 is still working better than ever. Still no audio drops or issues with pixies. Doesn't seem to matter how full the SSD is. No complaints. Well worth every penny I spent on it.
> 
> I mentioned the problems I was having with my 24-200 in a previous post. I didn't think the problems were caused by the 500 GB drive on it but I was worried about that. Ended up taking the 500 GB SSD off my 24-500 and putting it on the 24-200. Put the 200's SSD on the 24-500. Still have the same issue with the 24-200, pretty sure neither SSD is causing those issues. Just a wonky 24-200.
> 
> I have no complaints. If I still recorded a lot of programming I'd spring for 2TB WD Blue SSDs and put one on every HR. The HRs run so well using SSDs...well, you have to see it to appreciate it. *I really like the 2TB WD Blue I put on a slow 24-100, seems to be the best drive out of the four I've bought performance wise.*
> 
> Rich


Or does it seem better because it's the biggest SSD I have? Serious question, I have no idea what the proper answer is.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> Takes me no more than a half hour to put in internal HDD in any HR. Hard the first time and then it get a lot easier. Getting the top off is the hardest part.....
> Rich


I think I mentioned in the past-

For those of us who can legally change HDD's in our DVR's without going to DirecTV TOS jail, I removed the locking mechanisms/clips in my HR24's and 54 long ago and put them in a plastic bag in storage. I can swap a hard drive faster than it takes to boot up a DirecTV DVR, even if I boot up one with a SSD.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I think I mentioned in the past-
> 
> For those of us who can legally change HDD's in our DVR's without going to DirecTV TOS jail, I removed the locking mechanisms/clips in my HR24's and 54 long ago and put them in a plastic bag in storage. I can swap a hard drive faster than it takes to boot up a DirecTV DVR, even if I boot up one with a SSD.


I remember. I was gonna do that and then I found out how easy it is to use an SSD in a dock and I never plan on opening up another HR. Really wish you would have told us about the clips a few years ago. Yeah, with the clips off changing an HDD would be a breeze.

That 2TB WD Blue SSD I put in a 24-100 really seems to be the best SSD I have. Could that be because it's the only 2TB SSD I have on the HRs? Does size matter that much?

Rich


----------



## J Blow

So, great information. I'm going to do this to my HR44 first to see if I can speed up multiple units. 

This is probably pretty basic but why does an external drive seem to shut off the internal drive completely? I always thought an external drive just added space to the DVR, not replaced it. I must have been wrong about that.

So, I just need to get e-sata dock and plug in any old SSD? Sounds easy.


----------



## Athlon646464

J Blow said:


> So, great information. I'm going to do this to my HR44 first to see if I can speed up multiple units.
> 
> This is probably pretty basic but why does an external drive seem to shut off the internal drive completely? I always thought an external drive just added space to the DVR, not replaced it. I must have been wrong about that.


You can use only one HDD at a time. If you go with the external setup, your new recordings will be on the external drive (of course). However, if you unplug the external drive and reboot your DVR, the DVR will use your older internal drive again. You could do this to catch up on the recordings you have in there currently.


----------



## Rich

J Blow said:


> So, great information. I'm going to do this to my HR44 first to see if I can speed up multiple units.
> 
> This is probably pretty basic but why does an external drive seem to shut off the internal drive completely? I always thought an external drive just added space to the DVR, not replaced it. I must have been wrong about that.
> 
> So, I just need to get e-sata dock and plug in any old SSD? Sounds easy.


If you had the SD D* Tivos I can understand the confusion about the HDDs adding to each other. On the Tivos we could put an extra HDD in them and they would produce a single Playlist. In other words they added to each other. With the HRs we lost that. With the HRs the internal drive just sits there. Used to be able to take them out and the HRs would be fine. Don't think we can do that anymore.

Yes, you need an external device and I'd recommend a dock. I prefer the Thermaltake docks but they stopped making them in the eSATA form. You can still buy them on eBay and Amazon. They're gonna be used or reconditioned. Don't let that put you off, there's not much that can go wrong with them. Or you can hunt thru the offerings on Amazon for a device with an eSATA port on it. You must have the eSATA port on any external device.

Yeah, any SSD should work. And it's a lot easier to connect an SSD to an HR than it is to connect an HDD to an HR. If you have to buy an SSD try a Blue WD. I have one and it really works well with one of my 24s. Impressive drive.

Rich


----------



## J Blow

Great...thanks for the information. I tried to find some other information elsewhere about doing this (not that it would likely change my mind) and read of a couple other people that have done this before....like there was one guy with years on his drive. Everyone agreed it was faster, which brought me to this article from solid signal - you've probably seen it:

_By now, you probably know that you can use an external hard drive with a DIRECTV DVR by connecting it to the eSATA port on the back of the DVR. The external takes the place of the internal drive, meaning that you can't use both at the same time. So, in order to get your money's worth, you'd need to replace that internal 500GB or 1TB drive with something larger, right? So, using an SSD suddenly becomes an impossibly expensive proposition if you're talking about 2 or 4TB of space.

Not only that, the faster drive isn't going to speed up your DVR, unfortunately. Slow DVRs tend to be a result of slow processors, not slow drives. The rate at which information is read or written to the drive is tied to real time. In other words you can't write stuff faster than it comes to you over the satellite, right? Yes, you might have noticed the DVR seem to bog down a little bit while recording five things and playing back three things, and yes to a certain extent that is probably due a little bit to the hard drive, but it's mostly the processor trying to handle eight things at once. A faster drive isn't going to help as much as you think it will.

Not only that, SSDs aren't terribly good at the kind of file transfers that DVRs use a lot of&#8230; very small file chunks that get read, written, and deleted quickly. That sort of transfer is actually better suited for a good, old-fashioned hard drive.

So, save your money&#8230; don't worry about replacing the drive in your DVR with an SSD.
_
So, again, this isn't going to deter me but I've seen so many people that just dismiss this idea before even trying it. I don't get why.

So, before purchasing a drive, I started wondering why I need to get the dock versus just getting an external drive? Is it the connection? Has to be a cable for that, right?

Edited:

Looks like many external SSDs have a USB-C connection, so just need this, right?

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...+to+esata&qid=1567032768&s=electronics&sr=1-3


----------



## J Blow

By the way, someone on here posted (seemingly stating from belief versus actually trying it) that you can't use a smaller drive than what was originally in your unit. Is that true in this case? I don't get why it would be if it's simply starting over fresh. 

Finally, what about those docks that have 2 slots? I know they are used for cloning but is there any way to connect elsewhere and utilize both of those drives?


----------



## b4pjoe

I use an external drive instead of a dock on my HR24. As long as it has an eSata connection it will work.

No an SSD isn't going to play content any faster. What it does though is display the user interface faster. It is a noticeable difference with button presses on the remote to display the screen content (menus, guide, list, etc...) faster.

Docks with two slots....it will only use one drive. Not sure which it would choose. Could be it might confuse the DVR and it would give up and use the internal HDD.


----------



## Rich

J Blow said:


> Great...thanks for the information. I tried to find some other information elsewhere about doing this (not that it would likely change my mind) and read of a couple other people that have done this before....like there was one guy with years on his drive. Everyone agreed it was faster, which brought me to this article from solid signal - you've probably seen it:
> 
> _By now, you probably know that you can use an external hard drive with a DIRECTV DVR by connecting it to the eSATA port on the back of the DVR. The external takes the place of the internal drive, meaning that you can't use both at the same time. So, in order to get your money's worth, you'd need to replace that internal 500GB or 1TB drive with something larger, right? So, using an SSD suddenly becomes an impossibly expensive proposition if you're talking about 2 or 4TB of space.
> 
> *Not only that, the faster drive isn't going to speed up your DVR, unfortunately. Slow DVRs tend to be a result of slow processors, not slow drives.* The rate at which information is read or written to the drive is tied to real time. In other words you can't write stuff faster than it comes to you over the satellite, right? Yes, you might have noticed the DVR seem to bog down a little bit while recording five things and playing back three things, and yes to a certain extent that is probably due a little bit to the hard drive, but it's mostly the processor trying to handle eight things at once. A faster drive isn't going to help as much as you think it will.
> 
> Not only that, SSDs aren't terribly good at the kind of file transfers that DVRs use a lot of&#8230; very small file chunks that get read, written, and deleted quickly. That sort of transfer is actually better suited for a good, old-fashioned hard drive.
> 
> So, save your money&#8230; don't worry about replacing the drive in your DVR with an SSD.
> _
> So, again, this isn't going to deter me but I've seen so many people that just dismiss this idea before even trying it. I don't get why.
> 
> So, before purchasing a drive, I started wondering why I need to get the dock versus just getting an external drive? Is it the connection? Has to be a cable for that, right?
> 
> Edited:
> 
> Looks like many external SSDs have a USB-C connection, so just need this, right?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...+to+esata&qid=1567032768&s=electronics&sr=1-3


First issue, what I highlighted above. The HRs are slow because most of them have old HDDs in them. Put a new HDD in one and they become much quicker. This is real life, not speculation. Put an SSD in one and they act like they are brand new. This is a real life experience, not speculation. I have seen this time and time again, it's not my imagination.

That cable converter you linked to won't work. You need a device with an eSATA port on it. They come with the proper cabling.

Rich


----------



## Rich

J Blow said:


> By the way, someone on here posted (seemingly stating from belief versus actually trying it) that you can't use a smaller drive than what was originally in your unit. Is that true in this case? I don't get why it would be if it's simply starting over fresh.
> 
> Finally, what about those docks that have 2 slots? I know they are used for cloning but is there any way to connect elsewhere and utilize both of those drives?


You can use any size SSD in your HRs. Smaller than original doesn't matter. Same can be said for HDDs. If you use one on a 24 that exceeds 2TB it should still work but won't use more than 2TBs.

Rich


----------



## technoarch

Wanted to report that my Samsung 840 1TB SSD in the external enclosure is still running strong with no issues after 1 year of use.


----------



## Rich

technoarch said:


> Wanted to report that my Samsung 840 1TB SSD in the external enclosure is still running strong with no issues after 1 year of use.


Great, so are mine. No audio drops, no pixies...life is good...and the HRs are quick. One more time, got a slow HR? They can be fixed, don't give up on them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

I just got this in a notification from Amazon. Looks like it will work in the HRs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OUSSVDG?ref=em_1p_0_ti&ref_=pe_2313360_432650910

Note the "eSATA" port on the back wall of the dock, that's the port you need.

Rich


----------



## tylorert

Rich said:


> Nope just a big message that said something about the HDD being "broken". Odd message. No error number. Not sure what the exact message was, I was more worried about what was happening at the time.
> Both the SSD and the internal HDD are working correctly. Whatever it was a reboot seems to have corrected it. Just the idea of getting a message that anything was "broken" seems odd. Wish I would have taken a picture of it but it all happened so fast...
> 
> Rich


I've seen that screen all too much


----------



## Rich

tylorert said:


> I've seen that screen all too much


How you making out with that website? Been awhile.

Rich


----------



## tylorert

Rich said:


> How you making out with that website? Been awhile.
> 
> Rich


PM Me . Miss being on here. Its been a while. Ive been messing with couple of HR24's


----------



## Athlon646464

Read through this entire thread while watching feetball yesterday. Does this make me too geeky? lol

I found it to be very interesting. Thank you to everyone who posted their experiences here.

@Rich - Are you still trouble free with your SSD installs? I'm thinking about one one for my HR24-200.


----------



## Rich

Athlon646464 said:


> Read through this entire thread while watching feetball yesterday. Does this make me too geeky? lol
> 
> I found it to be very interesting. Thank you to everyone who posted their experiences here.
> 
> @Rich - Are you still trouble free with your SSD installs? I'm thinking about one one for my HR24-200.


Yup. Only problems I have with the HRs can be blamed on the HRs themselves. What I see on my HRs is something like I see on NF or AP or Hulu, a stable picture with no audio drops. All the years of blaming D*'s broadcasts, all the years of blaming YES for the crappy picture...over. Just over. For the most part, I see little wrong with the HRs. I do have problems with my 24-200. No matter what drive I use it tends to skip to the end of recordings without any warning. Does it using the internal drive and any SSD I use on it. Don't think that's a drive issue. My last 24-500 occasionally crashes and won't respond to remote commands or front panel commands. Not a drive issue and I'm too lazy to change the power supply board. It comes back correctly after a reboot. Happens very infrequently. Did it yesterday and it's been a few months since it crashed the last time. I can live with it.

Simply put, the HRs can be fixed and moaning and groaning and blaming D* isn't gonna solve any problems. I don't think they are ever get around to doing the right thing and putting new HDDs in every replacement. That would definitely help, I think.

Rich


----------



## Athlon646464

Rich said:


> Yup. Only problems I have with the HRs can be blamed on the HRs themselves. What I see on my HRs is something like I see on NF or AP or Hulu, a stable picture with no audio drops. All the years of blaming D*'s broadcasts, all the years of blaming YES for the crappy picture...over. Just over. For the most part, I see little wrong with the HRs. I do have problems with my 24-200. No matter what drive I use it tends to skip to the end of recordings without any warning. Does it using the internal drive and any SSD I use on it. Don't think that's a drive issue. My last 24-500 occasionally crashes and won't respond to remote commands or front panel commands. Not a drive issue and I'm too lazy to change the power supply board. It comes back correctly after a reboot. Happens very infrequently. Did it yesterday and it's been a few months since it crashed the last time. I can live with it.
> 
> Simply put, the HRs can be fixed and moaning and groaning and blaming D* isn't gonna solve any problems. I don't think they are ever get around to doing the right thing and putting new HDDs in every replacement. That would definitely help, I think.
> 
> Rich


Thanks for the update. Because I also have an HR24-200 - just to be sure - it's not the SSD causing the skip to the end, but it's just that particular HR24? My wife, who is very Italian, would go crazy if I promised her a fix for her beloved HR and it did that.


----------



## Rich

Athlon646464 said:


> Thanks for the update. Because I also have an HR24-200 - just to be sure - it's not the SSD causing the skip to the end, but it's just that particular HR24? My wife, who is very Italian, would go crazy if I promised her a fix for her beloved HR and it did that.


I've tried my newest Blue WD 2TB SSD on it and the same thing happens. Also swapped out the two 500GB SSDs and the same thing happened. It always did this. Have any similar problems with your 200? A new drive isn't gonna fix everything that's wrong with the HRs but it fixes most of them. If that 200 has no issues other than video and audio breakups and is slowing down you shouldn't be worried. What you end up with when you put an SSD on an HR is a better DVR than you've ever had.

Rich


----------



## Athlon646464

Rich said:


> I've tried my newest Blue WD 2TB SSD on it and the same thing happens. Also swapped out the two 500GB SSDs and the same thing happened. It always did this. Have any similar problems with your 200? A new drive isn't gonna fix everything that's wrong with the HRs but it fixes most of them. If that 200 has no issues other than video and audio breakups and is slowing down you shouldn't be worried. What you end up with when you put an SSD on an HR is a better DVR than you've ever had.
> 
> Rich


Thanks. It's just always slow and unresponsive sometimes. By unresponsive I mean several seconds before it reacts to a remote command. It doesn't freeze or skip to the end of a program.

When she watches her 'mush mind' shows (Real Housewives, etc.), I sometimes hear her screaming at her remote. 'Stupid Remote'.

Sounds like a new drive will help. And calm her down. And keep me safe.


----------



## b4pjoe

I put an external SSD on my wife's HR24 shortly after Rich started this thread. While it makes the on screen GUI snappier displaying its info it still has problems with remote commands being slow/unresponsive and I still have her complaining about the remote. Will an RC73 remote work with the HR24?


----------



## Athlon646464

b4pjoe said:


> I put an external SSD on my wife's HR24 shortly after Rich started this thread. While it makes the on screen GUI snappier displaying its info it still has problems with remote commands being slow/unresponsive and I still have her complaining about the remote. Will an RC73 remote work with the HR24?


Thanks. I don't see why it wouldn't.

However, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to rip that NE Patriots D* remote I bought for her years ago out of her hands.


----------



## Rich

Athlon646464 said:


> Thanks. It's just always slow and unresponsive sometimes. By unresponsive I mean several seconds before it reacts to a remote command. It doesn't freeze or skip to the end of a program.
> 
> When she watches her 'mush mind' shows (Real Housewives, etc.), I sometimes hear her screaming at her remote. 'Stupid Remote'.
> 
> Sounds like a new drive will help. And calm her down. And keep me safe.


The slowness will go away instantly. My wife screams at inanimate objects too, you are not alone.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> I put an external SSD on my wife's HR24 shortly after Rich started this thread. While it makes the on screen GUI snappier displaying its info it still has problems with remote commands being slow/unresponsive and I still have her complaining about the remote. Will an RC73 remote work with the HR24?


I had a similar problem with a 24-500. Remote commands were ignored. Not the drives fault, I got a replacement 24-500 that worked correctly with the remote. I tried everything I could think of to get that 500 to see the remote and the only thing that worked was replacing the box.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Athlon646464 said:


> Thanks. I don't see why it wouldn't.
> 
> However, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to rip that NE Patriots D* remote I bought for her years ago out of her hands.


I have a couple Jets' remotes somewhere. Wonderful being a Jets fan.

Rich


----------



## Tmac

Hi,

I have an HR-24 (actually SHR-26 700 from SKY, which is a rebranded directv provider in Brazil) and it's very laggy (as always) and I'm considering trying to replace the HDD with an SSD.

My main issue is channel swapping, where it usually takes forever or worse, if you change like 5-6 channels in a row, somewhere down the line it just 'freezes' the player and you notice a hickup. Sometimes when you try to manyally enter a channel it just freezes in the middle of the process and change to a complete different channel (example: Channel 446... you press 446 and the player freezes in the middle and change the channel to 46.... you reenter the channel code and it changes to channel 4!!!)... It's very infuriating so i wonder:

1) If i use an SSD, will those problems i mentioned before improove?

2) If i use an SSD, will that permanently 'lock' my SSD and render it unusable for any other use? As far as I know SKY Brazil HDDs are encrypted and you can't format it to use on PCs for example. Does Directv have the same HDD lock protection?


Thanks


----------



## b4pjoe

1) It is hard to say with certainty but it does for a lot of us. The receiver though could have other issues.

2) The SSD I use as an external drive (Western Digital SSD) in my HR-24 can be moved back to a PC or Mac and reformatted and used there.


----------



## Tmac

b4pjoe said:


> 2) The SSD I use as an external drive (Western Digital SSD) in my HR-24 can be moved back to a PC or Mac and reformatted and used there.


If i plug an external SSD will both HDDs be used or the plugged one gets priority and will be the only used?


----------



## WestDC

Tmac said:


> If i plug an external SSD will both HDDs be used or the plugged one gets priority and will be the only used?


The DVR will only use One Drive at a time --Plug external in it uses that --remove it and it will use the internal --Content will remain stored on each drive and con only be view using the receiver that it was attached.


----------



## Tmac

Do i need to use a specific SSD drive or any SSD with a plain sata cable will work?

Thanks


----------



## WestDC

Tmac said:


> Do i need to use a specific SSD drive or any SSD with a plain sata cable will work?
> 
> Thanks


Read up this thread and their are many suggestions


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> 1) It is hard to say with certainty but it does for a lot of us. The receiver though could have other issues.
> 
> 2) The SSD I use as an external drive (Western Digital SSD) in my HR-24 can be moved back to a PC or Mac and reformatted and used there.


I'm not sure about that either. Could be the HDD, could be the box itself. Only way to know is try it. Yeah, moving the SSDs from device to device surely works.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Tmac said:


> Do i need to use a specific SSD drive or any SSD with a plain sata cable will work?
> 
> Thanks


I use five different SSDs. I was trying to figure out which was the best but they all seem to work about the same. This is the last one I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NNRTTCM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> 1) It is hard to say with certainty but it does for a lot of us. The receiver though could have other issues.


Been pondering this question, kinda makes me think it's the box rather than the drive. Not sure.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Agreed. Just sounds like more going wrong than the typical slowness from an hdd. And I'm not sure what his other options are with an SHR-26 700 from SKY in Brazil.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Agreed. Just sounds like more going wrong than the typical slowness from an hdd. And I'm not sure what his other options are with an SHR-26 700 from SKY in Brazil.


Wouldn't you think they'd replace the box? Sticking an SSD on any HR isn't gonna cure everything. I'd certainly try an SSD, just on the chance it might solve the problem. But it is a different country and I have no idea what happens there.

Rich


----------



## Tmac

I once had three different DVR boxes from SKY Brasil at the same time (all Directv equivalent models) and many more over the years (replacements) and all have those slowness feeling. Using a DVR compared to a regular box is like driving a car with hand brakes on. I guess it is worth a try. Another hint that HD might be a problem is that whener i delet a lot of programs and free up more space, the box gets a little faster.

Theres not a whole lot of option on SSD brands here in Brazil. Does anyone know if the Kingdston A400 500gb works just fine?

Also, how do you conect to the esata port? All HDD cases i found have only an USB output. Do you need an external power source?

Thnks


----------



## b4pjoe

You just need to find an external enclosure or dock that has the esata port. Here in the US Amazon has them but no idea about getting them in Brazil. You do need one with a power source.


----------



## Rich

Tmac said:


> I once had three different DVR boxes from SKY Brasil at the same time (all Directv equivalent models) and many more over the years (replacements) and all have those slowness feeling. Using a DVR compared to a regular box is like driving a car with hand brakes on. I guess it is worth a try. Another hint that HD might be a problem is that whener i delet a lot of programs and free up more space, the box gets a little faster.
> 
> Theres not a whole lot of option on SSD brands here in Brazil. Does anyone know if the Kingdston A400 500gb works just fine?
> 
> Also, how do you conect to the esata port? All HDD cases i found have only an USB output. Do you need an external power source?
> 
> Thnks


Yup, that SSD looks like it will work. This is a link to the latest enclosure I've bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
That will work with the SSD you spoke of. You can think of that as a dock or enclosure.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Tmac said:


> Also, how do you conect to the esata port? All HDD cases i found have only an USB output. Do you need an external power source?
> 
> Thnks


The enclosure/dock I linked to will come with an eSATA to SATA cable. You plug one end into the eSATA port on the back of the enclosure and the other end goes into the SATA port on the back wall of the DVR. Yes, you definitely need a power source which every dock and enclosure I've had or seen comes with. Using the eSATA function is easy. Once you have everything in place make sure the power plug of the DVR is removed and the enclosure/dock has no power. Insert the SSD and power up the enclosure/dock. Takes less than a minute. Then plug in the DVR. The DVR will format the SSD and when the DVR is done booting up you should be good to go. Try to remember to record a show you would never record on the internal HDD. That way you'll know which drive the DVR is recognizing. What you should see with a new SSD is a blank Playlist, you should not see the recording you would never normally record.

BTW, any dock or enclosure with an eSATA port should work. The eSATA function has nothing to do with USB.

Rich


----------



## Folin

Hey Rich & Co.,

Reading thru these threads after a pretty long hiatus from here. Have been fat/happy with a few HR-24’s in the house for some time now.

The primary unit has had a 3TB WD HDD running for at least 6-7 years now, from recollection…possibly longer.

We just upgraded to 4k sets and got an HS-17 that has an e-SATA port thankfully. Our installer said it didn’t have e-SATA, so glad I went to the basement and double checked!

I slapped in my current 3TB HDD which was recognized on 2nd attempt. Of course, lost use of all prior recordings and had to delete them, but the nice benefit was all my series were still setup for recording and that seems to be working fine.

After reading through this thread, I’m seeing that the life on this HDD may be near its end. It’s been pushed…sitting at ~25% - 30% capacity for most of its life…I tried to delete older stuff as it pushed through 30% level.

Anyway, I see you’re having much success w/ SSD thru e-SATA but my family still dictates the need for size over speed. So thinking a 3 – 6TB HDD should work for us. I read one member hear had issues w/ Seagate’s IronWolf. Anyone else use with success? Another was pointing out that WD Purple’s may be fairly optimized for DVR usage. Just trying to see what latest thoughts are on best solution…noise not an issue as the HS-17 is located in the basement (unfinished area).


----------



## Rich

Folin said:


> Hey Rich & Co.,
> 
> Reading thru these threads after a pretty long hiatus from here. Have been fat/happy with a few HR-24's in the house for some time now.
> 
> The primary unit has had a 3TB WD HDD running for at least 6-7 years now, from recollection&#8230;possibly longer.
> 
> We just upgraded to 4k sets and got an HS-17 that has an e-SATA port thankfully. Our installer said it didn't have e-SATA, so glad I went to the basement and double checked!
> 
> I slapped in my current 3TB HDD which was recognized on 2nd attempt. Of course, lost use of all prior recordings and had to delete them, but the nice benefit was all my series were still setup for recording and that seems to be working fine.
> 
> After reading through this thread, I'm seeing that the life on this HDD may be near its end. It's been pushed&#8230;sitting at ~25% - 30% capacity for most of its life&#8230;I tried to delete older stuff as it pushed through 30% level.
> 
> Anyway, I see you're having much success w/ SSD thru e-SATA but my family still dictates the need for size over speed. So thinking a 3 - 6TB HDD should work for us. I read one member hear had issues w/ Seagate's IronWolf. Anyone else use with success? Another was pointing out that WD Purple's may be fairly optimized for DVR usage. Just trying to see what latest thoughts are on best solution&#8230;noise not an issue as the HS-17 is located in the basement (unfinished area).


That's the problem anyone with a 17 is gonna run into. SSDs with the capacity you want are very expensive. And that HDD is surely on it's way out. For an HDD you might want to try a WD Surveillance HDD. They seem to be made with DVRs in mind. Here's a link to one: https://www.amazon.com/Purple-6TB-Surveillance-Hard-Drive/dp/B071V6SVK2/ref=sr_1_3?crid=201DHV62SVN4U&keywords=wd+surveillance+drive+6tb&qid=1580848066&sprefix=wd+sur,aps,171&sr=8-3

That should give you a few years of good performance. Just keep it no more than half full. Once you start loading up HDDs the performance suffers. IOW, treat a 6TB as if it were a 3TB drive, keep it no more than half full. 3TBs of content is a hell of a lot of content.

Rich


----------



## WestDC

Rich said:


> That's the problem anyone with a 17 is gonna run into. SSDs with the capacity you want are very expensive. And that HDD is surely on it's way out. For an HDD you might want to try a WD Surveillance HDD. They seem to be made with DVRs in mind. Here's a link to one: https://www.amazon.com/Purple-6TB-Surveillance-Hard-Drive/dp/B071V6SVK2/ref=sr_1_3?crid=201DHV62SVN4U&keywords=wd+surveillance+drive+6tb&qid=1580848066&sprefix=wd+sur,aps,171&sr=8-3
> 
> That should give you a few years of good performance. Just keep it no more than half full. Once you start loading up HDDs the performance suffers. IOW, treat a 6TB as if it were a 3TB drive, keep it no more than half full. 3TBs of content is a hell of a lot of content.
> 
> Rich


Hey Rich: I put one of these on one of HR-22's 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W954RZK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

one TB Drive and had it up and running in less than 5 mins -- so far it works great -I have to wait for the 24 hr guide to update so I get set some series --But so far I like it --Faster Boot time and remote menu action -Thanks for posting


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Hey Rich: I put one of these on one of HR-22's
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W954RZK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> one TB Drive and had it up and running in less than 5 mins -- so far it works great -I have to wait for the 24 hr guide to update so I get set some series --But so far I like it --Faster Boot time and remote menu action -Thanks for posting


Not a bad deal on that enclosure/SSD. About what I paid for my last enclosure and 1TB SSD. Glad it worked for you. Just about everything should be faster with the SSD.

Rich


----------



## WestDC

I'll see how long it lasts


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

WestDC said:


> I'll see how long it lasts


I've got a 500GB running on an HR21 for 14 months now, and mostly on the under 30% free space available portion being used over and over (one full series haven't gotten around to watching).

No real problems, yet (knock on wood).

The only thing I've had to do differently than the regular HDD units is requires resetting* the DVR every 8 to 10 days (as opposed to 6 to 8 weeks).

But the SSD boots quickly enough, even when mostly full. The increased "performance" is totally worth it.

*Resetting (as opposed to simply restarting) is two restarts within a half-hour, flushing the guide. Seems to help keep "performance" as top-notch as it can be.


----------



## jones_hdtv

Rich said:


> Not a bad deal on that enclosure/SSD. About what I paid for my last enclosure and 1TB SSD. Glad it worked for you. Just about everything should be faster with the SSD.
> 
> Rich


Doesn't look like an SSD, 7200 RPMs looks like a hard drive


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> I'll see how long it lasts


I've had the SSD on my 44 since August of 2018 and it's still running as it did when I installed it. Pretty sure we'll get at least two years out of these things.

Rich


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> I'll see how long it lasts


Does that enclosure contain an HDD or an SSD?

Rich


----------



## Rich

jones_hdtv said:


> Doesn't look like an SSD, 7200 RPMs looks like a hard drive


It does look like an HDD. Just checked with the author of that post...

Rich


----------



## WestDC

Rich said:


> It does look like an HDD. Just checked with the author of that post...
> 
> Rich


The Link I posted -Was for information - I ordered the 1TB SSD Version if you look at the boxes - You can Pick Which ever you wish.

Sorry I upset the Post Police


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> The Link I posted -Was for information - I ordered the 1TB SSD Version if you look at the boxes - You can Pick Which ever you wish.
> 
> Sorry I upset the Post Police


I did look at the offering, that's why I asked. The link you supplied shows the 1TB version and the 1TB SSD version is not highlighted. Not a problem, just caused confusion, I was sure you had an SSD in that enclosure. In that thread...

Rich


----------



## WestDC

Rich said:


> I did look at the offering, that's why I asked. The link you supplied shows the 1TB version and the 1TB SSD version is not highlighted. Not a problem, just caused confusion, I was sure you had an SSD in that enclosure. In that thread...
> 
> Rich


UPDATE:

Well Sunday 9pm -The SSD Died-NO light no-nothing --I returned it and ordered a ThermalX -WD-Green-SSD & 3' estata cord - I got it today --Connected it and Off it went -Working as of NOW - I have to wait for the Guide to update to add series and such.

I do not Know What Kind of Internal SSD was in that unit or the Case it was in --BUT I would not buy another one- So FYI


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Well Sunday 9pm -The SSD Died-NO light no-nothing --I returned it and ordered a ThermalX -WD-Green-SSD & 3' estata cord - I got it today --Connected it and Off it went -Working as of NOW - I have to wait for the Guide to update to add series and such.
> 
> I do not Know What Kind of Internal SSD was in that unit or the Case it was in --BUT I would not buy another one- So FYI


Good info! Folks should be aware that there are problems with this enclosure: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...tle_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=viglink20586-20

Rich


----------



## sstv

Hi All
I just installed a "TANGO" external enclosure and a WD sata ssd. The enclosure cost 9 bucks at Amazon and is well made and very easy to set up. It uses the usb port for power which is provided by a 120v usb adaptor that came from a flat tv ant amp power that I had laying around. A cable is provided for usb opration. Everything is provided all you have to do is plug into the esata ports, hook up the power, turn on the directv recvr. all else is automatic. You have to setup the recvr, which is a pain so write down all the info from the recvr so it is less painfull.
SSTV


----------



## Athlon646464

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I just installed a "TANGO" external enclosure and a WD sata ssd. The enclosure cost 9 bucks at Amazon and is well made and very easy to set up. It uses the usb port for power which is provided by a 120v usb adaptor that came from a flat tv ant amp power that I had laying around. A cable is provided for usb opration. Everything is provided all you have to do is plug into the esata ports, hook up the power, turn on the directv recvr. all else is automatic. You have to setup the recvr, which is a pain so write down all the info from the recvr so it is less painfull.
> SSTV


Like this one?

https://smile.amazon.com/Acomdata-Tango-2-5-Inch-Enclosure-TNGXXXUSE-BLU/dp/B001XHELB8/?th=1


----------



## sstv

Athlon646464 said:


> Like this one?
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/Acomdata-Tango-2-5-Inch-Enclosure-TNGXXXUSE-BLU/dp/B001XHELB8/?th=1


Thats the one. It comes with a USB cable but you must buy a ESATA cable. At the bottom of the page you can get the enclosure and cable for 15 bucks.
sstv


----------



## Athlon646464

sstv said:


> Thats the one. It comes with a USB cable but you must buy a ESATA cable. At the bottom of the page you can get the enclosure and cable for 15 bucks.
> sstv


Thanks...


----------



## sstv

Hi All
I don't like the idea of leaving the internal HDD hooked up and spinning and creating heat, so I moved the SSD inside the case. I unplugged the HDD and plugged in the SSD, put the cover back on started watching TV. I will use the external SSD case on my computer.
SSTV


----------



## Rich

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I don't like the idea of leaving the internal HDD hooked up and spinning and creating heat, so I moved the SSD inside the case. I unplugged the HDD and plugged in the SSD, put the cover back on started watching TV. I will use the external SSD case on my computer.
> SSTV


You might have problems with the internal mounting of the SSD. There was a discussion about this in this thread.

Rich


----------



## sstv

Rich said:


> You might have problems with the internal mounting of the SSD. There was a discussion about this in this thread.
> 
> Rich


I put the ssd on top of the existing hhd, no mounting.


----------



## Rich

sstv said:


> I put the ssd on top of the existing hhd, no mounting.


Read the appropriate posts in this thread. I believe it was a heat problem. I had mine internally until I was told of the problem with that. I didn't even bother to put them on the HDD sled, I just put them on the very stiff eSATA cables and let them float.

Rich


----------



## sstv

Rich said:


> Read the appropriate posts in this thread. I believe it was a heat problem. I had mine internally until I was told of the problem with that. I didn't even bother to put them on the HDD sled, I just put them on the very stiff eSATA cables and let them float.
> 
> Rich


I don't think temperature will be a problem. My 54 temp. is 100F, the SSD is good to 160F. You can stuff them in any place there's room. 
SSTV


----------



## sstv

Hi All
I can't leave well enough alone.
I ran SSD TOOLBOX on my wife's computer and the report was Very Bad. I istalled a new SSD, copied the files and she is off and running. At no time was she having any problems with the OLD SSD. I have no idea how accurate SSD TOOLBOX is.
My HR54 is running very good with a internal SSD, so I thought I would hook up my wife's OLD SSD external on the HR54 leaving the internal SSD hooked up. My Esata hookup has worked before so there should not have problems and this would be a good test for a very old SSD failing in a HR54. I RBR the HR54 and it did not find the external drive so I put the OLD SSD in my computer and formatted it so the HR54 would have a clean drive to work with. Reinstalled the external drive, did a RBR and the drive was not detected. I thought about opening the box and hooking up the original drive but that's a last resort.
Anybody have any ideas whats going on ?
SSTV


----------



## Rich

sstv said:


> Hi All
> I can't leave well enough alone.
> I ran SSD TOOLBOX on my wife's computer and the report was Very Bad. I istalled a new SSD, copied the files and she is off and running. At no time was she having any problems with the OLD SSD. I have no idea how accurate SSD TOOLBOX is.
> My HR54 is running very good with a internal SSD, so I thought I would hook up my wife's OLD SSD external on the HR54 leaving the internal SSD hooked up. My Esata hookup has worked before so there should not have problems and this would be a good test for a very old SSD failing in a HR54. I RBR the HR54 and it did not find the external drive so I put the OLD SSD in my computer and formatted it so the HR54 would have a clean drive to work with. Reinstalled the external drive, did a RBR and the drive was not detected. I thought about opening the box and hooking up the original drive but that's a last resort.
> Anybody have any ideas whats going on ?
> SSTV


When you install any drive using the eSATA function you should pull the power cord from the HR first. Place the drive in the external device then power up the external device. Give it a minute and then power up the HR. Stay away from the Red Button. Let the HR boot up. Should work at that point in time.

Rich


----------



## sstv

Rich said:


> When you install any drive using the eSATA function you should pull the power cord from the HR first. Place the drive in the external device then power up the external device. Give it a minute and then power up the HR. Stay away from the Red Button. Let the HR boot up. Should work at that point in time.
> 
> Rich


The HR54 was unplugged, the Esata drive was powered up then the HR54 was plugged back in and the boot up process was started
SSTV


----------



## Rich

sstv said:


> The HR54 was unplugged, the Esata drive was powered up then the HR54 was plugged back in and the boot up process was started
> SSTV


With an SSD in the external device...well, that should have worked. Got another external device or another SSD? Time to make replacements, see which device is screwed up. With an SSD the drive should be recognized by the HR damn near immediately.

Or you screwed up the SSD by putting it in a computer. Not once in all the years I've been playing with HRs and drives have I had/seen the need to put a drive in a computer.

Or the old SSD is shot. You need to do some troubleshooting.

Rich


----------



## sstv

Rich said:


> With an SSD in the external device...well, that should have worked. Got another external device or another SSD? Time to make replacements, see which device is screwed up. With an SSD the drive should be recognized by the HR damn near immediately.
> 
> Or you screwed up the SSD by putting it in a computer. Not once in all the years I've been playing with HRs and drives have I had/seen the need to put a drive in a computer.
> 
> Or the old SSD is shot. You need to do some troubleshooting.
> 
> Rich


I just tried a different external SSD with the same results. I think the internal SSD, which started life as a external, is marked by the HR54 as external even if installed internal and the HR54 will only except one external.
SSTV


----------



## jimmie57

sstv said:


> I just tried a different external SSD with the same results. I think the internal SSD, which started life as a external, is marked by the HR54 as external even if installed internal and the HR54 will only except one external.
> SSTV


I have never done any of this:
but
What if you did the reset and choose the option to make it back like it was when it came out of the box ?


----------



## sstv

jimmie57 said:


> I have never done any of this:
> but
> What if you did the reset and choose the option to make it back like it was when it came out of the box ?


I have no idea but I think the HR54 formats the drive. That puts everything back to zero. In a correctly operating system,with a Esata and spinning original drive, I think the Esata would get formatted. In my case, I think the HR54 thinks the internal SSD is external and would format it and that would correct my problem. Interesting concept.
SSTV
I checked the info on reset and it does not take the system to zero. It only resets the info you put in for the first time setup.
SSTV


----------



## sstv

Hi All
I took the WD500 out of the HR54, connected the original HDD backup,installed the WD500 as a Esata, rebooted the system. The HR54 booted with the Esata operating correctly,so my Esata stuff is OK. I tried a Mushkin, a Crucial, and a Teamgroup. All these drives are 240gb the WD was 500gb and worked fine. It seems that there is a size limit and 240gb is to small. If I had to guess, 500gb is minimum and works fine for me. I buttoned up the HR54 using the original drive and it is working fine. I got all my answers and I hope I helped others
SSTV


----------



## Rich

sstv said:


> I just tried a different external SSD with the same results. I think the internal SSD, which started life as a external, is marked by the HR54 as external even if installed internal and the HR54 will only except one external.
> SSTV


No. Your assumptions are wrong. The 54 will accept any of the proper drives and will format them if necessary. I've swapped SSDs several times and had no problems like yours. The HRs don't "mark" the drives in the way you think they do.

Rich


----------



## sstv

Rich said:


> No. Your assumptions are wrong. The 54 will accept any of the proper drives and will format them if necessary. I've swapped SSDs several times and had no problems like yours. The HRs don't "mark" the drives in the way you think they do.
> 
> Rich


You are right, the drives I was using were to small. All were 240gb. 500gb works, 240gb don't.


----------



## Rich

sstv said:


> You are right, the drives I was using were to small. All were 240gb. 500gb works, 240gb don't.


I know the HRs originally came with...not sure exactly...about a 300 GB HDD in them. Not sure anyone but you has tried a smaller SSD. Wish I had a smaller SSD. Don't see any reason they wouldn't work. Interesting. Oh well, glad you're up and running.

Rich


----------



## WestDC

HR20 22 23 24 all come with 500 gig drives - They except any drive 2tb that's the limit - Hr34 44 54 all come with 1 TB drives and will support all drives greater than 1 TB --The HS17 comes with a 2TB drive and it will support all drives greater than that as well.


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> HR20 22 23 24 all come with 500 gig drives - They except any drive 2tb that's the limit - Hr34 44 54 all come with 1 TB drives and will support all drives greater than 1 TB --The HS17 comes with a 2TB drive and it will support all drives greater than that as well.


Gotta disagree about the 20s. They had...again, can't be exact...300 or 320 GB internal drives in them. When the 24s came out they did have 500 GB drives in them. Might still have those drives somewhere.

Rich


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> Gotta disagree about the 20s. They had...again, can't be exact...300 or 320 GB internal drives in them. When the 24s came out they did have 500 GB drives in them. Might still have those drives somewhere.
> 
> Rich


The 23 had the 320 drive also. I had one of those to start with.


----------



## WestDC

I wasn't sure about the HR20's the early ones HR20'S had a 300 gig drive - I'm sure all after that had 500 - I know my hr22's have 500 -Jimmy unless you opened it and saw the drive - it had a 500 gig.


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> I wasn't sure about the HR20's the early ones HR20'S had a 300 gig drive - I'm sure all after that had 500 - I know my hr22's have 500 -Jimmy unless you opened it and saw the drive - it had a 500 gig.


I meant to come back to this thread last night to clarify my statement about the 20s. I only opened HR20-700s. I did get a lot of 20-100s but was never able to activate them...not one. I have no idea what the size of the HDDs in the 100s were but I'd be surprised if they weren't the same as the 700s. I do remember slightly different sizes in the 700s. Never opened up the one 22 I had. That got swiftly replaced. Same thing with the on 23 I had, briefly. Such junk they made back then.

Rich


----------



## WestDC

Rich said:


> I meant to come back to this thread last night to clarify my statement about the 20s. I only opened HR20-700s. I did get a lot of 20-100s but was never able to activate them...not one. I have no idea what the size of the HDDs in the 100s were but I'd be surprised if they weren't the same as the 700s. I do remember slightly different sizes in the 700s. Never opened up the one 22 I had. That got swiftly replaced. Same thing with the on 23 I had, briefly. Such junk they made back then.
> 
> Rich


Proving One man's Junk is another man's treasure -- If was using both Hr22's as primary DVR's I would agree -Using them for Whole home with additional turners -- Works great for me


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Proving One man's Junk is another man's treasure -- If was using both Hr22's as primary DVR's I would agree -Using them for Whole home with additional turners -- Works great for me


I get that. I use iffy HRs as servers too. Using a 22 or 23 for main viewing wasn't a good experience.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> I meant to come back to this thread last night to clarify my statement about the 20s. I only opened HR20-700s. I did get a lot of 20-100s but was never able to activate them...not one. I have no idea what the size of the HDDs in the 100s were but I'd be surprised if they weren't the same as the 700s. I do remember slightly different sizes in the 700s. Never opened up the one 22 I had. That got swiftly replaced. Same thing with the on 23 I had, briefly. Such junk they made back then.
> 
> Rich


HR20's (both -100 and -700) and HR21's have stock 320GB drives. HR22's thru HR24's have stock 500GB Drives. The only differences between the HR21 and HR22 was 320GB vs 500GB drive, and DirecTV went from a shiny black to dull (matte) black exterior. The AM21's were marketed to match the HR21 shiny black finish. Subsequent AM22's and above were matte black.

On a side note, all of my HR20-24's have modified drives installed now (SSD's), some as high as 2GB some how! I have no idea how that happened.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> HR20's (both -100 and -700) and HR21's have stock 320GB drives. HR22's thru HR24's have stock 500GB Drives. The only differences between the HR21 and HR22 was 320GB vs 500GB drive, and DirecTV went from a shiny black to dull (matte) black exterior. The AM21's were marketed to match the HR21 shiny black finish. Subsequent AM22's and above were matte black.
> 
> On a side note, all of my HR20-24's have modified drives installed now (SSD's), some as high as 2GB some how! *I have no idea how that happened.*


I do. You spent money to make your TV viewing experience better. Something D* refuses to do. Something anybody can do.

Rich


----------



## robertdnewman

I added a Fantom 10TB 7200 RPM external drive to my HR54 about a year ago. It has worked flawlessly. I typically have about 500 1hour HD episodes stored on it and it has never gone below 75% available space remaining.


----------



## Rich

robertdnewman said:


> I added a Fantom 10TB 7200 RPM external drive to my HR54 about a year ago. It has worked flawlessly. I typically have about 500 1hour HD episodes stored on it and it has never gone below 75% available space remaining.


New HDDs might seem to work as well as the SSDs. Keeping the HDD as empty as you do will prolong that performance. First thing I did when I got my 44 was boot it up and make sure it works. Then I stuck a 3TB drive in it. Brand new, but a WD 5400 RPM drive. (I think you get better performance with a 7200 RPM HDD, BTW.) Always had problems with the 44, always blamed the software. Stuck an SSD on it and no more problems, I was wrong about the software. Now it's the best DVR I've ever used. Once you start seeing pixies and audio dropouts you will be approaching the end of life on that HDD. I rarely see them now and it's always a weather issue.

Rich


----------



## zcarguy

Rich said:


> New HDDs might seem to work as well as the SSDs. Keeping the HDD as empty as you do will prolong that performance. First thing I did when I got my 44 was boot it up and make sure it works. Then I stuck a 3TB drive in it. Brand new, but a WD 5400 RPM drive. (I think you get better performance with a 7200 RPM HDD, BTW.) Always had problems with the 44, always blamed the software. Stuck an SSD on it and no more problems, I was wrong about the software. Now it's the best DVR I've ever used. Once you start seeing pixies and audio dropouts you will be approaching the end of life on that HDD. I rarely see them now and it's always a weather issue.
> 
> Rich


Hey Rich, Since you seem to the expert on ssds. I have an hr21 that works fine but channel changes are quite slow. pulling up the dvr list and navigating menus is also slow. I know comparing these to an hr54 is not fair but just wondering what I should expect if I invest in an ssd for the hr21. Thanks


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

zcarguy said:


> Hey Rich, Since you seem to the expert on ssds. I have an hr21 that works fine but channel changes are quite slow. pulling up the dvr list and navigating menus is also slow. I know comparing these to an hr54 is not fair but just wondering what I should expect if I invest in an ssd for the hr21. Thanks


No, I'm not Rich, but I think I've got a few posts in this thread detailing my experience with SSD on *HR21*.

I'd say bottom line that it in no way is speedy, but certainly made it _usable_ again. Definitely sped it up from what it was.

Using it for almost a year and a half (external 500GB) with no major problems.

Only "downside" is the need to reset (two restarts within a half-hour) every 8 to 10 days, vs 4 to 6 weeks with HDD. Not a problem for me. Also boots a lot faster.


----------



## zcarguy

Delroy E Walleye said:


> No, I'm not Rich, but I think I've got a few posts in this thread detailing my experience with SSD on *HR21*.
> 
> I'd say bottom line that it in no way is speedy, but certainly made it _usable_ again. Definitely sped it up from what it was.
> 
> Using it for almost a year and a half (external 500GB) with no major problems.
> 
> Only "downside" is the need to reset (two restarts within a half-hour) every 8 to 10 days, vs 4 to 6 weeks with HDD. Not a problem for me. Also boots a lot faster.


why do you think the ssd needs restarts almost once a week? to me the slowest most frustrating part is 5+ second channel changes. for me its usually 4 or 5 seconds until sound then another 1 or 2 and picture comes in. how would you describe it after installing the ssd? will pretty much any current ssd work?

Thanks


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

zcarguy said:


> why do you think the ssd needs restarts almost once a week? to me the slowest most frustrating part is 5+ second channel changes. for me its usually 4 or 5 seconds until sound then another 1 or 2 and picture comes in. how would you describe it after installing the ssd? will pretty much any current ssd work?
> 
> Thanks


Not sure _why_ it needs resets so often, only that it does. This doesn't bother me, as I feel the modest performance increases to be worth it.

Usually it'll start acting weird, or totally lock up if I forget to perform the reset on a regular basis.

I'm not sure that I paid much attention to the speed of channel changes, although they probably did speed up. (If I'm gonna channel surf, I'll use the relatively-speedy H25.)

The two most significant gains for me were the ability to use on-demand again (still slow, but usable now) and live buffering without delays, even while the HR21 was serving a stream to the H25.

Prior to the SSD, live buffering control ("trickplay") was insufferable. Of course the most reliable way to view programming with any DVR is to record first and then view from the playlist.

As to whether _any_ SSD would work, I really couldn't answer that. The 500GB on the HR21 is the only experience I have so far. (I purchased a 1TB SSD for an HR44 but never deployed it because I quit using that unit after they mucked-up its UI.)


----------



## Rich

zcarguy said:


> Hey Rich, Since you seem to the expert on ssds. I have an hr21 that works fine but channel changes are quite slow. pulling up the dvr list and navigating menus is also slow. I know comparing these to an hr54 is not fair but just wondering what I should expect if I invest in an ssd for the hr21. Thanks


First, before I had an interest in DVRs, I could have been a model for "Joe Sixpack". I've been stumbling and fumbling my way thru D* for damn near two decades and I am not an expert in anything. I do know this for sure: you should get that 21 replaced with a 24 and then put an SSD on the 24. That will blow your mind. I don't see anything good happening with the 21. Might jack up the speed a bit but getting a 24 will do that.

Stick an SSD in a decent 24 and then you can compare it to the 54...it might be quicker, depends on how old the HDD in the 54 is.

Do yourself a favor, get the 21 replaced.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> No, I'm not Rich, but I think I've got a few posts in this thread detailing my experience with SSD on *HR21*.
> 
> I'd say bottom line that it in no way is speedy, but certainly made it _usable_ again. Definitely sped it up from what it was.
> 
> Using it for almost a year and a half (external 500GB) with no major problems.
> 
> Only "downside" is the need to reset (two restarts within a half-hour) every 8 to 10 days, vs 4 to 6 weeks with HDD. Not a problem for me. Also boots a lot faster.


Still hanging onto that doorstop? I understand not wanting to give up on something you like but a 24 would be a good home for that SSD. Just a thought, couldn't help it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

zcarguy said:


> *why do you think the ssd needs restarts almost once a week? to me the slowest most frustrating part is 5+ second channel changes. for me its usually 4 or 5 seconds until sound then another 1 or 2 and picture comes in.* how would you describe it after installing the ssd? will pretty much any current ssd work?
> 
> Thanks


That's probably caused by the old HDD inside the box. An SSD should fix that. It depends on how close to "shot" your 21 is. An SSD isn't gonna fix everything. You truly cannot shine ****.

Rich


----------



## nowandthen

I had a couple of HR-20's for years and years that became painfully slow. I didn't understand why until I found this thread in July of 2019. I tried an HR-54, long story short, I hated it. So, I returned it for 2 HR-24's.

Based on this thread, I knew I'd be adding the external SSD at some point, so I watched for used Thermaltake BlacX docking stations (they don't make them anymore), I eventually ended up with 2. I bought 1 Samsung 1TB 860 EVO SSD, and put all on the shelf.

I've had the two HR-24's for over a year. I let the least used one (meaning in the room I barely use) do most of the recording (have whole home option), that way the 2 buffers in my most watched room are free for jumping back and forth between channels. After about 6 months, the receiver I use for daily viewing started to get sluggish even though I didn't record much content to it. I would do a CLEARMYBOX and it helped. The other receiver seems to serve up content just fine, but it needs a CLEARMYBOX too when being accessed locally. But being as I don't use that room for daily viewing, I haven't bothered to see if CLEARMYBOX will fix it for a while. I need to get another SSD at some point. Might be a good idea to have one on hand in case of a failure in the other room. The Western Digital Blue 1TB SSD https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073SBQMCX/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 is currently $35 less than the Samsung https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078DPCY3T/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 . Historically (according to The Camelizer) the Samsungs are more expensive than the Western Digitals.

The receiver doing most of the recording is still working, but the receiver in my TV room died overnight. The screensaver was frozen this morning and I couldn't get it going no matter what button I pressed. I unplugged the receiver and plugged it back in. It did the usual start-up "stuff' but reported a bad hard drive. It started an extensive scan of the drive and said it may take several hours. It stopped at 3.56% for some time. I decided to shut it down and add the external SSD.

I plugged in the dock with SSD, powered it up, then unplugged the DVR and plugged it back in. The DVR did the usual restart routine, then a screen came up saying "formatting hard drive". After a short time, the screen came to life. I'm up and running! Very easy! I'm glad I had the hardware on hand to get the receiver going again.

I had to re-set-up my favorite channels, but not a big deal. I don't watch that many channels. Season passes are on the other HR, but I better take some pictures of them, so when the time comes...

Thanks Rich!

By the way, should I call DTV and get this box replaced, being as the internal drive is having problems? I hate to have to call them and deal with the hand holding trouble shooting process when I know what's wrong.


----------



## b4pjoe

If it is working fine with the SSD don't call them or they will want to replace it and you might get one that doesn't work as well as the one you have.


----------



## Rich

nowandthen said:


> I had a couple of HR-20's for years and years that became painfully slow. I didn't understand why until I found this thread in July of 2019. I tried an HR-54, long story short, I hated it. So, I returned it for 2 HR-24's.
> 
> Based on this thread, I knew I'd be adding the external SSD at some point, so I watched for used Thermaltake BlacX docking stations (they don't make them anymore), I eventually ended up with 2. I bought 1 Samsung 1TB 860 EVO SSD, and put all on the shelf.
> 
> I've had the two HR-24's for over a year. I let the least used one (meaning in the room I barely use) do most of the recording (have whole home option), that way the 2 buffers in my most watched room are free for jumping back and forth between channels. After about 6 months, the receiver I use for daily viewing started to get sluggish even though I didn't record much content to it. I would do a CLEARMYBOX and it helped. The other receiver seems to serve up content just fine, but it needs a CLEARMYBOX too when being accessed locally. But being as I don't use that room for daily viewing, I haven't bothered to see if CLEARMYBOX will fix it for a while. I need to get another SSD at some point. Might be a good idea to have one on hand in case of a failure in the other room. The Western Digital Blue 1TB SSD https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073SBQMCX/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 is currently $35 less than the Samsung https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078DPCY3T/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 . Historically (according to The Camelizer) the Samsungs are more expensive than the Western Digitals.
> 
> The receiver doing most of the recording is still working, but the receiver in my TV room died overnight. The screensaver was frozen this morning and I couldn't get it going no matter what button I pressed. I unplugged the receiver and plugged it back in. It did the usual start-up "stuff' but reported a bad hard drive. It started an extensive scan of the drive and said it may take several hours. It stopped at 3.56% for some time. I decided to shut it down and add the external SSD.
> 
> I plugged in the dock with SSD, powered it up, then unplugged the DVR and plugged it back in. The DVR did the usual restart routine, then a screen came up saying "formatting hard drive". After a short time, the screen came to life. I'm up and running! Very easy! I'm glad I had the hardware on hand to get the receiver going again.
> 
> I had to re-set-up my favorite channels, but not a big deal. I don't watch that many channels. Season passes are on the other HR, but I better take some pictures of them, so when the time comes...
> 
> Thanks Rich!
> 
> *By the way, should I call DTV and get this box replaced*, being as the internal drive is having problems? I hate to have to call them and deal with the hand holding trouble shooting process when I know what's wrong.


Putting an SSD on a DVR won't fix everything that's wrong with it. Just keep an eye on it and if you see problems you can't fix replace it. I have a 24-100 that has a bad HDD in it and the diagnostic tests show nothing is wrong. I still have some minor problems with it but a reboot seems to fix them. I don't want to go thru the replacement thing either.

Rich


----------



## mloiterman

So I installed a 1G Samsung 860 EVO into my HR54 about a week ago. It seemed to go well and there was some increase in speed, although not as much as I had hoped. The menu screen is still a bit laggy and slow when first loaded. Still, everything seemed to be OK and it was downloading all the guide data and program posters.

Anyway, yesterday, I got an 771 Satellite Error and some of the local channels were not available. I checked my signal strength and everything was into the 90s on all Satellites. Weird. So, I restarted the HR54 and CK41 and the multiswitch and everything came back normal. All channels OK, all signals OK. 

But, all the graphical guide data and posters seem to have been lost. That was last night and so far they don't appear to be downloading either.

DirecTV did do a software update a few days after I installed the SSD, so I don't know if that's part of it? I've just reset the network connection which appears to be OK and then restarted, so we'll see if that gets the posters to download.

I cannot imagine how any of this could be connected to installation of an SSD, but just wondering if anyone else has seen the lack of posters and a temporary 771 error.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

While I never had any satellite errors, I noticed it took a few days after the SSD was first connected for the DVR to get all its graphics back.

In fact, a few of the graphical elements were actually in standard-def for a while.

(Posters and other guide data will always take a day or two after a complete guide flush.)


----------



## compnurd

mloiterman said:


> So I installed a 1G Samsung 860 EVO into my HR54 about a week ago. It seemed to go well and there was some increase in speed, although not as much as I had hoped. The menu screen is still a bit laggy and slow when first loaded. Still, everything seemed to be OK and it was downloading all the guide data and program posters.
> 
> Anyway, yesterday, I got an 771 Satellite Error and some of the local channels were not available. I checked my signal strength and everything was into the 90s on all Satellites. Weird. So, I restarted the HR54 and CK41 and the multiswitch and everything came back normal. All channels OK, all signals OK.
> 
> But, all the graphical guide data and posters seem to have been lost. That was last night and so far they don't appear to be downloading either.
> 
> DirecTV did do a software update a few days after I installed the SSD, so I don't know if that's part of it? I've just reset the network connection which appears to be OK and then restarted, so we'll see if that gets the posters to download.
> 
> I cannot imagine how any of this could be connected to installation of an SSD, but just wondering if anyone else has seen the lack of posters and a temporary 771 error.


Posters come over the satellite and will take a few days to download


----------



## Rich

mloiterman said:


> So I installed a 1G Samsung 860 EVO into my HR54 about a week ago. It seemed to go well and there was some increase in speed, although not as much as I had hoped. The menu screen is still a bit laggy and slow when first loaded. Still, everything seemed to be OK and it was downloading all the guide data and program posters.
> 
> Anyway, yesterday, I got an 771 Satellite Error and some of the local channels were not available. I checked my signal strength and everything was into the 90s on all Satellites. Weird. So, I restarted the HR54 and CK41 and the multiswitch and everything came back normal. All channels OK, all signals OK.
> 
> But, all the graphical guide data and posters seem to have been lost. That was last night and so far they don't appear to be downloading either.
> 
> DirecTV did do a software update a few days after I installed the SSD, so I don't know if that's part of it? I've just reset the network connection which appears to be OK and then restarted, so we'll see if that gets the posters to download.
> 
> I cannot imagine how any of this could be connected to installation of an SSD, but just wondering if anyone else has seen the lack of posters and a temporary 771 error.


Nothing I see in this post that an SSD would cause. Or an HDD. Not a drive issue, I think. Next month will be the second year anniversary of this thread, two years with...I was gonna say "virtually" no drive issues of any kind but I can truthfully say "no drive issues at all". Five HRs with SSDs...no problems. 

Rich


----------



## mloiterman

Rich said:


> Nothing I see in this post that an SSD would cause. Or an HDD. Not a drive issue, I think. Next month will be the second year anniversary of this thread, two years with...I was gonna say "virtually" no drive issues of any kind but I can truthfully say "no drive issues at all". Five HRs with SSDs...no problems.
> 
> Rich


I agree, I simply cannot imagine how changing the drive type would cause an issue.

That said, since changing the drive type, I cannot get any of the graphics, artwork, posters, images for the shows selected within the guide and many other places to download.

I've pulled out the SSD and completely wiped the drive removing the file systems and all partitions. Basically I reverted it to factor state. I then installed it again back into the HR54 to let it go through the whole process. 72 hours later, not a single image had downloaded.

I've just done a clearmybox, and I will return home tomorrow afternoon and so we'll see, but I don't really expect anything to change.

I wonder if the new version of the software downloaded on June 25 has anything to don with it? I can easily get the version now, but I could tomorrow.

Has anyone received a new version of the software?

I see at one time in the past, DirecTV removed all the graphics via this thread:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/DirecTV/comments/8iffyc


----------



## Rich

mloiterman said:


> I agree, I simply cannot imagine how changing the drive type would cause an issue.
> 
> That said, since changing the drive type, I cannot get any of the graphics, artwork, posters, images for the shows selected within the guide and many other places to download.
> 
> I've pulled out the SSD and completely wiped the drive removing the file systems and all partitions. Basically I reverted it to factor state. I then installed it again back into the HR54 to let it go through the whole process. 72 hours later, not a single image had downloaded.
> 
> I've just done a clearmybox, and I will return home tomorrow afternoon and so we'll see, but I don't really expect anything to change.
> 
> I wonder if the new version of the software downloaded on June 25 has anything to don with it? I can easily get the version now, but I could tomorrow.
> 
> Has anyone received a new version of the software?
> 
> I see at one time in the past, DirecTV removed all the graphics via this thread:
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/DirecTV/comments/8iffyc


Yes, the new SW is probably why this is happening, have patience, wait for the next update.

Rich


----------



## compnurd

Rich said:


> Yes, the new SW is probably why this is happening, have patience, wait for the next update.
> 
> Rich


I wouldn't. It is not fixed in the next series of code. This may be a new behavior


----------



## mloiterman

compnurd said:


> I wouldn't. It is not fixed in the next series of code. This may be a new behavior


I've learned of someone else is experiencing the same issue (artwork not downloading) via Reddit.

I'm beginning to suspect that this is being done purposefully, but it sounds like you've witness this yourself via future updates?

I've seen elsewhere that this is being done in the name of speed? This cannot be, because I've just installed a brand new SSD and the entire interface (anything except scrolling through guide) is still ridiculously slow and laggy - with a brand new SSD and without any artwork.

I'm literally sitting here trying to find a reason to stay with DirecTV instead of moving to YouTube TV and now this?

If I didn't know any better, I would think that AT&T, after almost 20 years of paying for the top package and every possible additional channel, didn't want me as a customer anymore.


----------



## compnurd

mloiterman said:


> I've learned of someone else is experiencing the same issue (artwork not downloading) via Reddit.
> 
> I'm beginning to suspect that this is being done purposefully, but it sounds like you've witness this yourself via future updates?
> 
> I've seen elsewhere that this is being done in the name of speed? This cannot be, because I've just installed a brand new SSD and the entire interface (anything except scrolling through guide) is still ridiculously slow and laggy - with a brand new SSD and without any artwork.
> 
> I'm literally sitting here trying to find a reason to stay with DirecTV instead of moving to YouTube TV and now this?
> 
> If I didn't know any better, I would think that AT&T, after almost 20 years of paying for the top package and every possible additional channel, didn't want me as a customer anymore.


Eh maybe they don't. Well gone are the years of customizing the hardware.


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> I wouldn't. It is not fixed in the next series of code. This may be a new behavior


Tell us more. Please.

Rich


----------



## compnurd

Rich said:


> Tell us more. Please.
> 
> Rich


The same issue they are having exists in the last several CE's

as some else indicated there may be a change to the Unix code. There has been several changes to the code over the last year


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> The same issue they are having exists in the last several CE's
> 
> as some else indicated there may be a change to the Unix code. There has been several changes to the code over the last year


Thanks.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

While I see no reason for it having anything to do with having an external SSD connected, I too am experiencing the absence of posters.

This on an HR21 I had given its weekly reset on Saturday. Just checked and there are still no posters.

I can only speculate they aren't being transmitted anymore for whatever reason.

They usually start showing up within the first 12 hours, and it's been almost 48 now.


----------



## compnurd

Delroy E Walleye said:


> While I see no reason for it having anything to do with having an external SSD connected, I too am experiencing the absence of posters.
> 
> This on an HR21 I had given its weekly reset on Saturday. Just checked and there are still no posters.
> 
> I can only speculate they aren't being transmitted anymore for whatever reason.
> 
> They usually start showing up within the first 12 hours, and it's been almost 48 now.


There is something going on. I fired up my HS17 2 days ago to double check some series recordings i needed to verify and it doesnt have posters either


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> There is something going on. I fired up my HS17 2 days ago to double check some series recordings i needed to verify and it doesnt have posters either


IIRC, you don't use SSDs? If so, this issue has nothing to do with SSDs.

Rich


----------



## compnurd

Rich said:


> IIRC, you don't use SSDs? If so, this issue has nothing to do with SSDs.
> 
> Rich


Nope no SSD.. This issue appears some backend issue


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> Nope no SSD.. This issue appears some backend issue


I didn't see it as an SSD issue, just wanted someone trustworthy to confirm it. Thanks.

Rich


----------



## mloiterman

It figures - as soon as I add my SSD, DirecTV changes something so that I cannot fully asses the impact of the SSD.

Anyway, while I'm glad I added the SSD, the benefits are not as dramatic as I had hoped. I'm not sure if that is a result of this software issue or it's just that my expectations were too high. I only had about a day with the HR54 on the SSD with all the graphics downloaded. 

To me, after hitting the Menu button, that screen is still laggy and slow as hell. Boot up is a lot faster, but I don't restart the device that often under normal circumstances. Scrolling through the guide is instant, but I have the scrolling effects turned off and now the graphics are missing. I don't remember paging up and down in the guide to be that slow before adding SSD. 

Scrubbing backward and forward through live TV or a recorded program is still not that smooth either.

Mostly I'm disappointed that the Menu screen and all the of navigation into and out of the on demand sections are still very slow to me. I'm comparing this to navigating on an Apple TV which can also get a bit laggy, but is definitely smoother. 

Is what I'm seeing normal or is there something wrong with my HR54 - I have one of the very, very early ones.


----------



## Rich

mloiterman said:


> It figures - as soon as I add my SSD, DirecTV changes something so that I cannot fully asses the impact of the SSD.
> 
> Anyway, while I'm glad I added the SSD, the benefits are not as dramatic as I had hoped. I'm not sure if that is a result of this software issue or it's just that my expectations were too high. I only had about a day with the HR54 on the SSD with all the graphics downloaded.
> 
> To me, after hitting the Menu button, that screen is still laggy and slow as hell. Boot up is a lot faster, but I don't restart the device that often under normal circumstances. Scrolling through the guide is instant, but I have the scrolling effects turned off and now the graphics are missing. I don't remember paging up and down in the guide to be that slow before adding SSD.
> 
> Scrubbing backward and forward through live TV or a recorded program is still not that smooth either.
> 
> Mostly I'm disappointed that the Menu screen and all the of navigation into and out of the on demand sections are still very slow to me. I'm comparing this to navigating on an Apple TV which can also get a bit laggy, but is definitely smoother.
> 
> Is what I'm seeing normal or is there something wrong with my HR54 - *I have one of the very, very early ones.*


What I just highlighted was what I was looking for. I wondered how old your 54 was. Yeah, I'd say it's normal for what you have. I see the same things on my old 24s. The SSDs aren't gonna cure every problem we see on the HRs.

Rich


----------



## mloiterman

Rich said:


> What I just highlighted was what I was looking for. I wondered how old your 54 was. Yeah, I'd say it's normal for what you have. I see the same things on my old 24s. The SSDs aren't gonna cure every problem we see on the HRs.
> 
> Rich


But is there a hardware difference between a "first generation" HR54 vs one I would get today?


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> I didn't see it as an SSD issue, just wanted someone trustworthy to confirm it. Thanks.
> 
> Rich


I can also confirm for sure now that missing graphics is not an SSD issue too.

We had a storm-related power glitch that required the re-setting of an older HR with its original HDD, and the graphics never came back on that one either.


----------



## compnurd

mloiterman said:


> But is there a hardware difference between a "first generation" HR54 vs one I would get today?


No with the exception the newer ones just don't have a esata port


----------



## Rich

mloiterman said:


> But is there a hardware difference between a "first generation" HR54 vs one I would get today?


Sadly, there is a major difference. Some of the newer 54s don't have a SATA port. This means you can't use an external drive on them. But let's say you get a replacement that has a SATA port on it. There's a green tag on the bottom of your 54, that will show you the birthday of the 54. You can compare dates and if you get a newer 54 it should be better, performance-wise. What you have to remember is the HRs get slower with age. I'm not sure the "why" of this really matters, it just happens. Even when you use an SSD.

If your 54's performance is really bothering you, get it replaced. Yeah, that's a crapshoot, you never know what you're gonna get. I do the replacement thing whenever I can but I don't archive recordings so it doesn't matter if I lose content. I would get a replacement if the HR bothered me as much as your 54 bothers you.

Rich


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> No with the exception the newer ones just don't have a esata port


I wasn't sure about that question so I kinda avoided it. I've never heard of hardware upgrades on any HR...but it must happen from time to time, no? Obviously it would have to be on new HRs, I would think. I am certainly not gonna call removing the SATA port an "upgrade". Yet another visit to the valley of the stupid. How do they think of these things?

Rich


----------



## compnurd

Rich said:


> I wasn't sure about that question so I kinda avoided it. I've never heard of hardware upgrades on any HR...but it must happen from time to time, no? Obviously it would have to be on new HRs, I would think. I am certainly not gonna call removing the SATA port an "upgrade". Yet another visit to the valley of the stupid. How do they think of these things?
> 
> Rich


I dont think so While there may be certain component upgrades due to EOL, they all still use the same BCM Chipset


----------



## mloiterman

Rich said:


> What you have to remember is the HRs get slower with age. I'm not sure the "why" of this really matters, it just happens. Even when you use an SSD.


Apart from the spinning hard drive, the only thing that I can think of in these boxes that would cause an ongoing degradation in performance would be poorly performing software. This, the DirecTV boxes have in abundance.

As far as I know, there is no hardware difference, apart from the esata port, between my early HR54 and one sent today. The esata port has no value to me, I've installed my SSD into the box, but I just don't think there is any difference.

If I thought there was a reasonable chance that there was a hardware upgrade, I would call for replacement, but as I said, I'm not aware of any hardware changes, so I'll stick with what I have and the SSD I've installed.

Hopefully after this software issue with the graphics is sorted out, the SSD will be able to offer a little more fluidity in the interface.


----------



## Rich

mloiterman said:


> Apart from the spinning hard drive, the only thing that I can think of in these boxes that would cause an ongoing degradation in performance would be poorly performing software. This, the DirecTV boxes have in abundance.
> 
> As far as I know, there is no hardware difference, apart from the esata port, between my early HR54 and one sent today. The esata port has no value to me, I've installed my SSD into the box, but I just don't think there is any difference.
> 
> If I thought there was a reasonable chance that there was a hardware upgrade, I would call for replacement, but as I said, I'm not aware of any hardware changes, so I'll stick with what I have and the SSD I've installed.
> 
> Hopefully after this software issue with the graphics is sorted out, the SSD will be able to offer a little more fluidity in the interface.


One more time, then I'll give up. The lack of "fluidity" (I like that term) is caused by the SW, I'll agree with that. I doubt there will ever be a hardware upgrade on the HRs unless a new DVR comes out. But, a newer 54 might work better than the one you have now. I have to admit I've been disappointed in the refurbs I've received in the last couple of years. As far as I can see all they do in the refurbishment is wipe the content off the internal drive and...that's about it. I understand why you don't want to go thru the hassle of a replacement that might be just as bad as what you have but I would still try the replacement. You might get lucky and get one that hasn't been beaten up too badly.

Please let us know how you make out with the SSD mounted internally. We were warned against doing that and I'd like to know how it works out for you.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> One more time, then I'll give up. The lack of "fluidity" (I like that term) is caused by the SW, I'll agree with that. I doubt there will ever be a hardware upgrade on the HRs unless a new DVR comes out. But, a newer 54 might work better than the one you have now. I have to admit I've been disappointed in the refurbs I've received in the last couple of years. As far as I can see all they do in the refurbishment is wipe the content off the internal drive and...that's about it. I understand why you don't want to go thru the hassle of a replacement that might be just as bad as what you have but I would still try the replacement. You might get lucky and get one that hasn't been beaten up too badly.
> 
> Please let us know how you make out with the SSD mounted internally. *We were warned against doing that* and I'd like to know how it works out for you.
> 
> Rich


Why were you warned about that? They get mounted inside of computers all of the time.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Why were you warned about that? They get mounted inside of computers all of the time.


Heat. Read the thread, the answer is there. When I decided to try an SSD I mounted it internally. Seemed fine, then I started the thread and we got the warning in a post. I wasn't planning on using the eSATA function but the warning caused me to rethink mounting it internally. I shelled out a couple hundred bucks for the first 1TB SSD and I wasn't about to wreck it. I'm glad I did that, it's so easy to use the SSDs externally. Much simpler than opening the box. Of course, YMMV.

Rich


----------



## mloiterman

Rich said:


> Heat. Read the thread, the answer is there. When I decided to try an SSD I mounted it internally. Seemed fine, then I started the thread and we got the warning in a post. I wasn't planning on using the eSATA function but the warning caused me to rethink mounting it internally. I shelled out a couple hundred bucks for the first 1TB SSD and I wasn't about to wreck it. I'm glad I did that, it's so easy to use the SSDs externally. Much simpler than opening the box. Of course, YMMV.
> 
> Rich


Can you point me to that thread?

The idea that an SSD would cause damage to the HR54 by generating more heat than a traditional hard drive doesn't seem logical. There's way more airflow without the hard drive and the SSD itself, as far as I know, generates much less heat as compared to a traditional drive.

As far as the SSD being damaged by heat in the relativley enormous case of the HR54, that also doesn't seem logical. The Samsung SSDs that I use are designed to run in PCs, or Laptops with almost no airflow and much, much less space for heat dissipation.

I have the same SSD in an Intel NUC and it's really packed in there, running 24 x 7 and I've never had an issue.

I cannot imagine how putting an SSD in the HR54 or something similar would generate enough heat to damage either the SSD or HR54.

In fact, I recently pulled and opened the HR54 immediately after shutting it down (trying to resolve the guide and poster issue) and explicitly touched the SSD to see if it was hot - it wasn't even warm.


----------



## b4pjoe

mloiterman said:


> Can you point me to that thread?
> 
> The idea that an SSD would cause damage to the HR54 by generating more heat than a traditional hard drive doesn't seem logical. There's way more airflow without the hard drive and the SSD itself, as far as I know, generates much less heat as compared to a traditional drive.
> 
> As far as the SSD being damaged by heat in the relativley enormous case of the HR54, that also doesn't seem logical. The Samsung SSDs that I use are designed to run in PCs, or Laptops with almost no airflow and much, much less space for heat dissipation.
> 
> I have the same SSD in an Intel NUC and it's really packed in there, running 24 x 7 and I've never had an issue.
> 
> I cannot imagine how putting an SSD in the HR54 or something similar would generate enough heat to damage either the SSD or HR54.
> 
> In fact, I recently pulled and opened the HR54 immediately after shutting it down (trying to resolve the guide and poster issue) and explicitly touched the SSD to see if it was hot - it wasn't even warm.


Yeah I have to agree that it isn't the SSD generating that much heat. They generate less heat than a traditional HDD. The only thing I can see is too much heat from other components but it isn't like it is running the latest and greatest (and hottest) CPU's. Do DVR's have fans inside of them? If I remember correctly I think they do. I used to have a Zotac mini media PC with no internal fan in I that had an SSD in it and you could almost fry eggs on the top of that thing and that SSD ran for years until I quit using that PC. I still have the SSD and it still works.


----------



## Rich

mloiterman said:


> Can you point me to that thread?
> 
> The idea that an SSD would cause damage to the HR54 by generating more heat than a traditional hard drive doesn't seem logical. There's way more airflow without the hard drive and the SSD itself, as far as I know, generates much less heat as compared to a traditional drive.
> 
> As far as the SSD being damaged by heat in the relativley enormous case of the HR54, that also doesn't seem logical. The Samsung SSDs that I use are designed to run in PCs, or Laptops with almost no airflow and much, much less space for heat dissipation.
> 
> I have the same SSD in an Intel NUC and it's really packed in there, running 24 x 7 and I've never had an issue.
> 
> I cannot imagine how putting an SSD in the HR54 or something similar would generate enough heat to damage either the SSD or HR54.
> 
> In fact, I recently pulled and opened the HR54 immediately after shutting it down (trying to resolve the guide and poster issue) and explicitly touched the SSD to see if it was hot - it wasn't even warm.


Here's a link: What happens if I put a 1TB SSD in my HR44-700?
Read it and come back, please. If we can safely stick the SSDs in the HRs that would make the thought of losing the eSATA function a bit easier to take. I don't have the technical knowledge to argue this point but I am more than willing to listen to a good argument.

Rich


----------



## slice1900

compnurd said:


> I dont think so While there may be certain component upgrades due to EOL, they all still use the same BCM Chipset


Actually that's not true, the HR54 and HS17 models that don't include the eSATA port use a newer version of the satellite tuner chip, have a USB3 port instead of USB2 and several other minor changes.

While you 'hope' there are no differences in how they act that's not always true. There have even been issues with a particular -x00 manufacturer number of the 'same' model that acts differently so it isn't 100% guaranteed the various OEMs use the same parts.

We only know about the changes to the HR54 & HS17 because they made changes that could potentially impact its RF shielding, therefore they had to file with the FCC again. For changes that don't impact RF in any way they don't have to file anything and we won't ever know anything changed - there would just be some that have an eSATA port and some that don't and no one would know why or what other differences there might possibly be.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Yeah I have to agree that it isn't the SSD generating that much heat. They generate less heat than a traditional HDD. The only thing I can see is too much heat from other components but it isn't like it is running the latest and greatest (and hottest) CPU's. Do DVR's have fans inside of them? If I remember correctly I think they do. I used to have a Zotac mini media PC with no internal fan in I that had an SSD in it and you could almost fry eggs on the top of that thing and that SSD ran for years until I quit using that PC. I still have the SSD and it still works.


Did you read the thread? The warning was enough for me to take both SSDs out and mount them externally. I'd like to be able to mount them internally. Argue the point with some facts, I'll change the posts. Yes, the HRs have fans that suck the air in and over the HDDs, IIRC. If the eSATA function does go away this will be important. Nice thing is, the two cables that attach to the drives are so stiff you can just let the SSDs "float".

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> Actually that's not true, the HR54 and HS17 models that don't include the eSATA port use a newer version of the satellite tuner chip, have a USB3 port instead of USB2 and several other minor changes.
> 
> While you 'hope' there are no differences in how they act that's not always true. There have even been issues with a particular -x00 manufacturer number of the 'same' model that acts differently so it isn't 100% guaranteed the various OEMs use the same parts.
> 
> We only know about the changes to the HR54 & HS17 because they made changes that could potentially impact its RF shielding, therefore they had to file with the FCC again. For changes that don't impact RF in any way they don't have to file anything and we won't ever know anything changed - there would just be some that have an eSATA port and some that don't and no one would know why or what other differences there might possibly be.


That's interesting. I think the 24-500s have a different chip in them than the other 24s. There are differences.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> Did you read the thread? The warning was enough for me to take both SSDs out and mount them externally. I'd like to be able to mount them internally. Argue the point with some facts, I'll change the posts. Yes, the HRs have fans that suck the air in and over the HDDs, IIRC. If the eSATA function does go away this will be important. Nice thing is, the two cables that attach to the drives are so stiff you can just let the SSDs "float".
> 
> Rich


I don't recall any specific threads warning about heat. If you mean in this thread I've read a great deal of it but I'm not going to go back and re-read all 29 pages. Can you link me to the specific posts that discuss this? It is simple enough to Google info about SSD's and heat. Yes they can be damaged if they get too hot. The SSD drive itself does not generate as much heat as a traditional HDD. Most info you find is opinion by someone so I won't claim anything you find is fact unless someone has data to back up scientific testing. This page gives a pretty good comparison between the 2 types hard drives.

SSD VS HDD

My own experience though as I have used many SSD's in my Macs and PC's. The pre 2013 iMacs would get very hot and I never had any SSD issues with them installed internally. Also the Zotac media mini PC got very hot and had no fans and I never had any SSD issues with that either. I can't fathom a DVR getting hotter than that Zotac mini PC did.


----------



## compnurd

slice1900 said:


> Actually that's not true, the HR54 and HS17 models that don't include the eSATA port use a newer version of the satellite tuner chip, have a USB3 port instead of USB2 and several other minor changes.
> 
> While you 'hope' there are no differences in how they act that's not always true. There have even been issues with a particular -x00 manufacturer number of the 'same' model that acts differently so it isn't 100% guaranteed the various OEMs use the same parts.
> 
> We only know about the changes to the HR54 & HS17 because they made changes that could potentially impact its RF shielding, therefore they had to file with the FCC again. For changes that don't impact RF in any way they don't have to file anything and we won't ever know anything changed - there would just be some that have an eSATA port and some that don't and no one would know why or what other differences there might possibly be.


Either way nothing changes from what I said earlier. They still have the same about of ram and BCM chip


----------



## mloiterman

Rich said:


> Here's a link: What happens if I put a 1TB SSD in my HR44-700?
> Read it and come back, please. If we can safely stick the SSDs in the HRs that would make the thought of losing the eSATA function a bit easier to take. I don't have the technical knowledge to argue this point but I am more than willing to listen to a good argument.
> 
> Rich


Isn't that this thread? Anyway, I would like to know which post is warning against it and the credentials of the person making the claim along with a link to the data they are using to make that claim.

Here the specification sheet for the Samsung SSD 860 EVO that I've installed in my HR54:
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi.static/Samsung_SSD_860_EVO_Data_Sheet_Rev1.pdf

Here is the specification sheet for the Seagate ST1000VM002 I've pulled from my HR54:
https://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/docs/manual/ce/Pipeline HD Series/100633414m.pdf

Samsung SSD 860 EVO

Operating Temperature: 0°C to 70°C
Non-Operating temperature: -45°C to 85°C

Seagate ST1000VM002

Operating Temperature: 0° to 75°C
Non-Operating temperature: -40° to 70°C

So we know that these drives have nearly identical performance specifications. We also know that the SSD, at its max operating temperature, runs a few degrees cooler than the original drive in the HR54. So, I simply cannot believe that using an SSD, at least this particular one, would in anyway compromise the performance of the HR54 because of heat.

I've been using SSDs in Laptops, Desktops, and all kinds of servers for well over a decade. I've never experienced a situation where an SSD could not be successfully used in place of a traditional Hard Disk.


----------



## krel

mloiterman said:


> Can you point me to that thread?
> 
> The idea that an SSD would cause damage to the HR54 by generating more heat than a traditional hard drive doesn't seem logical. There's way more airflow without the hard drive and the SSD itself, as far as I know, generates much less heat as compared to a traditional drive.
> 
> As far as the SSD being damaged by heat in the relativley enormous case of the HR54, that also doesn't seem logical. The Samsung SSDs that I use are designed to run in PCs, or Laptops with almost no airflow and much, much less space for heat dissipation.
> 
> I have the same SSD in an Intel NUC and it's really packed in there, running 24 x 7 and I've never had an issue.
> 
> I cannot imagine how putting an SSD in the HR54 or something similar would generate enough heat to damage either the SSD or HR54.
> 
> In fact, I recently pulled and opened the HR54 immediately after shutting it down (trying to resolve the guide and poster issue) and explicitly touched the SSD to see if it was hot - it wasn't even warm.


HDD'S create more heat than SSD'S because of the moving parts in there. there's a few applications i would not use an SSD because of the heat factor and it triggering the cooling fans to do there job


----------



## krel

i just put a 4TB SSD in my genie and it's faster and and more fluid to use than the HDD was


----------



## Rich

mloiterman said:


> Isn't that this thread?


It certainly is. I rarely know what thread I'm in, sorry.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

mloiterman said:


> Isn't that this thread? Anyway, I would like to know which post is warning against it and the credentials of the person making the claim along with a link to the data they are using to make that claim.
> 
> Here the specification sheet for the Samsung SSD 860 EVO that I've installed in my HR54:
> https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi.static/Samsung_SSD_860_EVO_Data_Sheet_Rev1.pdf
> 
> Here is the specification sheet for the Seagate ST1000VM002 I've pulled from my HR54:
> https://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/docs/manual/ce/Pipeline HD Series/100633414m.pdf
> 
> Samsung SSD 860 EVO
> 
> Operating Temperature: 0°C to 70°C
> Non-Operating temperature: -45°C to 85°C
> 
> Seagate ST1000VM002
> 
> Operating Temperature: 0° to 75°C
> Non-Operating temperature: -40° to 70°C
> 
> So we know that these drives have nearly identical performance specifications. We also know that the SSD, at its max operating temperature, runs a few degrees cooler than the original drive in the HR54. So, I simply cannot believe that using an SSD, at least this particular one, would in anyway compromise the performance of the HR54 because of heat.
> 
> I've been using SSDs in Laptops, Desktops, and all kinds of servers for well over a decade. I've never experienced a situation where an SSD could not be successfully used in place of a traditional Hard Disk.


I have to agree. If heat is a factor on a DVR playing video/audio you would have far more problems on traditional PC's with SSD's mounted internally. And if you have ever worked on a PC....well


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> I don't recall any specific threads warning about heat. If you mean in this thread I've read a great deal of it but I'm not going to go back and re-read all 29 pages. Can you link me to the specific posts that discuss this? It is simple enough to Google info about SSD's and heat. Yes they can be damaged if they get too hot. The SSD drive itself does not generate as much heat as a traditional HDD. Most info you find is opinion by someone so I won't claim anything you find is fact unless someone has data to back up scientific testing. This page gives a pretty good comparison between the 2 types hard drives.
> 
> SSD VS HDD
> 
> My own experience though as I have used many SSD's in my Macs and PC's. The pre 2013 iMacs would get very hot and I never had any SSD issues with them installed internally. Also the Zotac media mini PC got very hot and had no fans and I never had any SSD issues with that either. I can't fathom a DVR getting hotter than that Zotac mini PC did.


I did mean this thread. I don't feel like searching thru it either...but I did it. And I can't find the warning. I know it's in this thread, perhaps *codespy *remembers where it was?

I can't believe it was in a different thread. As soon as I read that post I took the SSD out of my 44 and put it on a dock. I couldn't find any mention of that either.

In any event, this is an interesting turn of events. I've been thinking of putting a bigger SSD on the 44 and this might be the time to see what happens if I stick the SSD in the 44 and leave it there until it fails. I'll order a 2TB SSD today and install it in the 44, let's see what happens.

Okay, found a Crucial 2TB for $193. Here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-BX50...594568772&sprefix=2tb+sata+ssd,aps,156&sr=8-3
I will install it as soon as it arrives.

I will find the post that warned us about heat.

Rich


----------



## Rich

A couple of days ago my 44 was unresponsive when I sat down to watch TV. This has happened on and off since I got the 44 and I just did an RBR and it came right back. Checked to see if there had been an update and saw one had downloaded the week before. Blamed the crash on the update. 

Last night I fired up the 44 and got a message saying my hard drive was "broken". Not what I wanted to see. Checked the TT dock and it seemed off base slightly. Put it back where it normally is and did another RBR. Rebooted normally and everything looks fine. Gave this some thought and remembered my wife was vacuuming in that room and she probably hit the cabinet and moved the dock. 

These two incidents so close to each other bother me. Makes me wonder if the 44 is going south. I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I'll still put the new SSD in it if nothing happens between now and the day the SSD is delivered.

Rich


----------



## Rich

krel said:


> i just put a 4TB SSD in my genie and it's faster and more fluid to use than the HDD was


What you are seeing is how an HR should work. Were you seeing video and audio problems when you were using the HDD?

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

I'll be very interested in your results. If you go into info and settings on the HR44 it lists the internal temp in the box. For example my HR-54 shows the temp as 106°F. The house temp is 74°F so it is gaining 32°F inside the box.

According to mloiterman's post his Samsung SSD specs show it can operate in up to 70°C which is 158°F.

The temperature specs for the drive you ordered are also 0° - 70°C


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> I'll be very interested in your results. If you go into info and settings on the HR44 it lists the internal temp in the box. For example my HR-54 shows the temp as 106°F. The house temp is 74°F so it is gaining 32°F inside the box.
> 
> According to mloiterman's post his Samsung SSD specs show it can operate in up to 70°C which is 158°F.
> 
> The temperature specs for the drive you ordered are also 0° - 70°C


Might be even more interesting. I just turned on the 44 to see what the temp is and got the Hard Drive Is Broken message again. It's either the TT dock or the drive, the dock is really old and I just put the 1TB drive inside the 44. I'll keep an eye on it and see if I get that message again. The 1TB drive would have been on the 44 for almost 2 years. I couldn't check the temperature with the HDD still in the box but with the SSD installed it is 95 degrees at the moment. And at this moment the 44 is working correctly. I'll check it in a couple of hours.

When this happened last night I did an RBR and the drive was recognized. I watched some news for a while and shut it down. Made me think it was the dock. I hope that's the case.

Rich


----------



## b4pjoe

I wonder if the "Hard Drive Is Broken" message is for the external or the internal hard drive that was in it. I'm not sure if it can sense a bad hard drive that is connected through the SATA port? I guess if it monitors the boot drive I suppose it would giving that message for the external since that was the drive that was booted at the time. I wonder if there in info in the BIST settings if it can see both the internal and external hard drive? I've never tried the BIST tests but here is info on how to do it.

Solid Signal shows you...HOW TO DO IT


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> I wonder if the "Hard Drive Is Broken" message is for the external or the internal hard drive that was in it. I'm not sure if it can sense a bad hard drive that is connected through the SATA port? I guess if it monitors the boot drive I suppose it would giving that message for the external since that was the drive that was booted at the time. I wonder if there in info in the BIST settings if it can see both the internal and external hard drive? I've never tried the BIST tests but here is info on how to do it.
> 
> Solid Signal shows you...HOW TO DO IT


It will show an external drive failure. I did revert to the HDD mounted internally just to make sure. Yes, the diagnostic tests will show a failed drive, what disturbs me about them is they don't seem to be able to tell if a drive is so degraded it won't work properly. A dead drive shows, a sick drive doesn't. I have bad HDDs in a couple of HRs, I've run tests on them and they show up as good on the tests but they don't work well.

I'm not sure if the tests can sense both internal and external drives if both are active. I know they will test the primary drive, I don't think they'd sense a shot internal drive if the external drive is working properly. The internal HDD in the 44 is degraded to the point it's a PITA to use but it's not dead.

Rich


----------



## krel

Rich said:


> What you are seeing is how an HR should work. Were you seeing video and audio problems when you were using the HDD?
> 
> Rich


the genie is faster and more responsive. i used to some breaking up not no more


----------



## Rich

krel said:


> the genie is faster and more responsive. I used to some breaking up not no more


Aside from the problems you see when your system is affected by weather you should not see pixelations or have audio dropouts. I'm a Yankees fan and I watch the YES channel a lot. For years I complained about the audio and video problems on that channel. I was absolutely convinced the software on the HRs caused the problems and I was wrong. The HDDs in the HRs cause the problems. Stick an SSD in an HR and those issues go away.

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> I wonder if the "Hard Drive Is Broken" message is for the external or the internal hard drive that was in it. I'm not sure if it can sense a bad hard drive that is connected through the SATA port? I guess if it monitors the boot drive I suppose it would giving that message for the external since that was the drive that was booted at the time. I wonder if there in info in the BIST settings if it can see both the internal and external hard drive? I've never tried the BIST tests but here is info on how to do it.
> 
> Solid Signal shows you...HOW TO DO IT


Looks like I had a couple things going on. I did put the 1TB SSD in the 44. The 44 worked correctly for a couple days then crashed again. The 44 has been crashing since I got the last update on June 25th. I see nothing wrong with the SSD. I think one of the crashes wiped out the TT dock on the 44. That's why I got the "your hard drive is broken" message. I think all my TT docks are around 10 years old, I'm not surprised to see one fail, if it did fail.

I will have the new 2TB SSD (around the same price as I paid for the 1TB SSD two years ago, ~ $200) tomorrow. I am gonna install it in the 44 and put the original 1TB drive in a new eSATA device and mount it externally on the 44. That way I'll be able to watch down a bunch of fight cards that are recorded on the 1TB drive. And I can keep an eye on the 1TB SSD. What bothers me is something I read about SSDs, they fail without prior symptoms.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> <----
> I will have the new 2TB SSD (around the same price as I paid for the 1TB SSD two years ago, ~ $200) tomorrow. I am gonna install it in the 44 and put the original 1TB drive in a new eSATA device and mount it externally on the 44. That way I'll be able to watch down a bunch of fight cards that are recorded on the 1TB drive. And I can keep an eye on the 1TB SSD. *What bothers me is something I read about SSDs, they fail without prior symptoms*.
> 
> Rich


I think we were apprised of this possibility ahead of time and I've always accepted the risk of a no-warning failure.

(I'm reminded I've got a complete series to watch hopefully before it happens to me.)

I would probably blame the update, but I do hope your drive is ok.


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I think we were apprised of this possibility ahead of time and I've always accepted the risk of a no-warning failure.
> 
> (I'm reminded I've got a complete series to watch hopefully before it happens to me.)
> 
> I would probably blame the update, but I do hope your drive is ok.


Seems to be fine. But I have no idea if that means anything. I use the 44 quite a bit these days and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that SSD. If that means anything. Nothing on it of any import, just a bunch of fight cards. I have the new 2TB Crucial SSD: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YD5F561/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and will put that in the 44 tomorrow. I'm gonna assume the TT dock the 1TB drive was in is shot but I'll hang on to it.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Appreciate the info. Let us know how it goes.

I've been thinking about reconnecting the HR44 and putting an unused 1TB SSD on it, but have been discouraged reading about all the weirdness associated with the firmware updates.

I might put that drive in a computer instead.


----------



## krel

anyone put an SSD in a genie 2


----------



## P Smith

krel said:


> i would not use an *SSD* because of the heat factor and it triggering the cooling fans to do there job


HDD ?


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> will put that in the 44 tomorrow


Any news ?


----------



## krel

P Smith said:


> HDD ?


hard disk drive


----------



## P Smith

krel said:


> hard disk drive


confusing


> i would not use an *SSD*


----------



## James Long

SSD is a Solid State Drive and has been since the thread was started.


----------



## P Smith

P Smith said:


> confusing


I'm lost in his logic:"_i would not use an *SSD* because of the heat factor and it triggering the cooling fans to do there job_"


----------



## MysteryMan

P Smith said:


> I'm lost in his logic:"_i would not use an *SSD* because of the heat factor and it triggering the cooling fans to do there job_"


And I'm lost in your logic. An SSD and HDD both have pros and cons. That said, depending on how it's to be used will dictate whether a SSD or HDD is best.


----------



## P Smith

there is a lot of evidence of less heat dissipation from SSD, just read back a few pages;
and please don't point to me, I'm asking where is logic in krel's post ? 
just read it and pull the idea of heat factor of SSD vs HDD


----------



## b4pjoe

Somewhere back in this thread someone posted not to use an SSD internally in a DVR because it is too hot in there for an SSD. I don't personally agree with that logic but that is what that post was referencing.


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> Any news ?


Yes indeed. You are the news. Where have you been?

Rich


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> Somewhere back in this thread someone posted not to use an SSD internally in a DVR because it is too hot in there for an SSD. I don't personally agree with that logic but that is what that post was referencing.


I've had the 1TB SSD running internally in the 44 for several weeks and there's nothing wrong with it. Must have been the TT dock, as I suspected. The 44 crashed a couple of times after I stuck the SSD in it but that stopped and it's running well now. I have no idea what caused the 44 to go down. I did get a Crucial 2TB SSD for the 44 but I haven't had a chance to do anything with my DVRs for weeks, been dealing with a central air conditioner that won't work correctly. A story for another time.

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> there is a lot of evidence of less heat dissipation from SSD, just read back a few pages;
> and please don't point to me, I'm asking where is logic in krel's post ?
> just read it and pull the idea of heat factor of SSD vs HDD


If you know where those posts are would you supply a link? I searched the thread for them but couldn't find them.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> If you know where those posts are would you supply a link? I searched the thread for them but couldn't find them.
> 
> Rich


That's pulled from tech sheets of each model SSD and HDD


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> Yes indeed. You are the news. Where have you been?
> 
> Rich


On sabbatical


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> That's pulled from tech sheets of each model SSD and HDD


And yet, you wrote this: _there is a lot of evidence of less heat dissipation from SSD, just read back a few pages. 
_
Rich


----------



## P Smith

that's right - I mean facts taken from mfg tech data about each type and model of SSD and HDD … 
anyway SSD consuming much less energy, so it dissipate it eg heating environment less then HDD


----------



## Rich

While I am here I might as well say it's August and I put the first SSD on the 44 two years ago this month. Have not lost one SSD and I have no complaints about them. All of my 24s are running well with the SSDs on them and the 44 just got a new 2TB drive mounted externally. I did say I was gonna mount it internally but it's so easy to external devices using SSDs...I changed my mind. Digging the HDD out of the 44 and putting it back in was an ordeal I can live without. I took the original 1TB Samsung SSD to a 24-500 that had a 500GB SSD on it and made the swap. Both installations were easy and surprisingly quick. 

Rich


----------



## Rich

P Smith said:


> that's right - I mean facts taken from mfg tech data about each type and model of SSD and HDD &#8230;
> anyway SSD consuming much less energy, so it dissipate it eg heating environment less then HDD


Not my point, I was looking for the link.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

OK, links to … all mfg sites, all tech info out there. Original ! Not hearsay


----------



## slice1900

Looking at the spec sheets won't do you much good to determine the energy use / heat output of an SSD. Modern SSDs are capable of throughput 100x what is required in a DVR, so they won't come anywhere near their max power draw in the spec sheet.


----------



## P Smith

It's not linear dependency


----------



## P Smith

… just comparing by typical power consumption will give real picture.
If you like to see in real life , you can make a test - measure power consumption of SSD and HDD inside DVR during 24 hrs run; it would cover all typical tasks and will show you the difference in consumption. Add to that logging a thermocouple and you are golden.


----------



## Athlon646464

Rich said:


> been dealing with a central air conditioner that won't work correctly. A story for another time.
> 
> Rich


It's having 43 DVR's running with their cases open and SSDs installed when it's 95 degrees and humid outside, my friend...










(just kidding)


----------



## dminches

What docking stations are people using now? It seems as though the original manufacturers of these aren't making them any more.


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> What docking stations are people using now? It seems as though the original manufacturers of these aren't making them any more.


Hello, David. I gave up on the TT docks and I have a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
They are not for HDDs. Only SSDs. Really easy to hook up and use. I just put one on my 44.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Athlon646464 said:


> It's having 43 DVR's running with their cases open and SSDs installed when it's 95 degrees and humid outside, my friend...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (just kidding)


One of these days, once I calm down, I'll tell the AC story. Not something you want to go thru in the middle of the Summer. Once I calm down...

Rich


----------



## Athlon646464

Rich said:


> One of these days, once I calm down, I'll tell the AC story. Not something you want to go thru in the middle of the Summer. Once I calm down...
> 
> Rich


Funny (not) how boilers always break in the winter...


----------



## Rich

Athlon646464 said:


> Funny (not) how boilers always break in the winter...


Yup, just when you really need them.

Rich


----------



## dminches

Rich said:


> Hello, David. I gave up on the TT docks and I have a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> They are not for HDDs. Only SSDs. Really easy to hook up and use. I just put one on my 44.
> 
> Rich


There is no reason why these docks shouldn't last longer than a mechanical drive. I could go with an SSD but even a 2 TB that I trust is $250. Maybe I don't need a 3 TB drive anymore.


----------



## slice1900

P Smith said:


> It's not linear dependency


I wasn't suggesting they would use 1% of the power at 1% of the load. But they absolutely will not use 100% of the power at 1% load.


----------



## harsh

dminches said:


> Maybe I don't need a 3 TB drive anymore.


If you're filling a certain size Winchester drive, you should be looking for an even larger SSD. It is the reuse of storage cells that puts the hurt on an SSD. The less free space you have, the harder it is beating on what's left.

That said, this is a little like the Plasma/OLED burn-in issue. Design and manufacturing processes are continually improving the situation but they won't ever make it a non-issue because you can't tell an SSD to make less of an impression on the storage cell.

Weighing the limited performance improvement and wildly higher cost, it is very difficult to make an SSD pencil out in a DVR application where the DVR hardware and software are designed around mechanical storage.


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> There is no reason why these docks shouldn't last longer than a mechanical drive. I could go with an SSD but even a 2 TB that I trust is $250. Maybe I don't need a 3 TB drive anymore.


My TT docks are old. They've outlasted many HDDs. I still have two that work correctly. The dock I linked to is much easier to use and a lot smaller.

If you feel as I do and keep your HDDs at about half full you can get a lot more out of an SSD than you can with an HDD. I've run a couple of SSDs for weeks that were full and had no problems like I would see if I tried that with an HDD.

Rich


----------



## dminches

Rich said:


> My TT docks are old. They've outlasted many HDDs. I still have two that work correctly. The dock I linked to is much easier to use and a lot smaller.
> 
> If you feel as I do and keep your HDDs at about half full you can get a lot more out of an SSD than you can with an HDD. I've run a couple of SSDs for weeks that were full and had no problems like I would see if I tried that with an HDD.
> 
> Rich


I assume you are using 2 TB drives?


----------



## Rich

dminches said:


> I assume you are using 2 TB drives?


Two 2TB SSDs, two 1TB SSDs, and one 500GB SSD. The way I use D* these days I could get by with 500GB SSDs on each DVR. My SSD setup cost damn near a thousand dollars. To fix problems D* has ignored for years.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> Hello, David. I gave up on the TT docks and I have a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> They are not for HDDs. Only SSDs. Really easy to hook up and use. I just put one on my 44.
> 
> Rich


I thought somewhere (don't recall if it might even be this thread) that these units (enclosures, actually) were supposed to be "defective."

I was bummed when I read that 'cause I'd gotten one some months back. Only tested and never really deployed, yet.

But I thought it was a neat little unit. (Also, I believe it _is_ suppose to work with 2.5" HDDs too.)

However, it might've been the drive it was being bundled with that could've been the problem when the claims of "defectiveness" were being made.

At any rate, I'm glad to read that yours are working.


----------



## b4pjoe

I've been using this one for over a year with no issues. I do have a 2.5" SSD installed in it even though it only says 3.5" in the description. Works fine with the 2.5" SSD installed in it.

Vantec 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s to USB 3.0/eSATA HDD Enclosure (NST-366SU3-BK)


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I thought somewhere (don't recall if it might even be this thread) that these units (enclosures, actually) were supposed to be "defective."
> 
> I was bummed when I read that 'cause I'd gotten one some months back. Only tested and never really deployed, yet.
> 
> But I thought it was a neat little unit. (Also, I believe it _is_ suppose to work with 2.5" HDDs too.)
> 
> However, it might've been the drive it was being bundled with that could've been the problem when the claims of "defectiveness" were being made.
> 
> At any rate, I'm glad to read that yours are working.


I don't recall reading anything like that. The two I'm using are working correctly. The Amazon offering says: _*Compatible with 2.5-Inch SATA SSDs and hard drives (up to 15mm). *_

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> I don't recall reading anything like that. The two I'm using are working correctly. The Amazon offering says: _*Compatible with 2.5-Inch SATA SSDs and hard drives (up to 15mm). *_
> 
> Rich


Me too !


----------



## Rich

Two years ago today I began this thread. I haven't lost an SSD and I haven't had one problem I could blame on them. I lost one TT dock in the last two years. Couldn't be happier with my HRs. 

Rich


----------



## codespy

b4pjoe said:


> Somewhere back in this thread someone posted not to use an SSD internally in a DVR because it is too hot in there for an SSD. I don't personally agree with that logic but that is what that post was referencing.


Yes, I did that over a year ago. It was an experience I had with a brand new Samsung QVO 1TB drive in one of my HR24's.

Here is the post- What happens if I put a 1TB SSD in my HR44-700?

Perhaps it was a defective Samsung SSD, but I bought 4 of them at the same time, placed 3 in external TT docks, and one inside my other HR24, which was our primary viewing receiver. I never had overheating issues in that HR24 before or after that with standard HDD's, nor have I ever had to replace the fan in that DVR (it's not a HR24-100 with two 45 degree ends on the fan, which are really problematic and prone to failure quicker than those with the completely square fan). None of the other SSD's showed the same symptoms in the external docks. I have since moved that 'defective' SSD to an external drive, on a different DVR located in my attached garage, and have to reboot that DVR every 9 to 13 days since the SSD will make the DVR unresponsive to any commands after that time period. It doesn't matter if it is the summer or winter months, the reboot has to happen.

I have not tried ANY of my SSD's in my HR54. The 54 has been speedy rock solid even with a 6TB internal and external drive connected to it, both at over 65% full of recordings.

I understand if there is skepticism by others to my one experience of mounting the SSD drive internally, but it's also about testing as many of us DirecTV nerds do sometimes. That particular test failed for me, but maybe it was a freak incident with a potentially defective SSD. I'm out of the warranty period now, but wanted to share my result after someone else was entertaining mounting the SSD inside of their DVR.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Yes, I did that over a year ago. It was an experience I had with a brand new Samsung QVO 1TB drive in one of my HR24's.
> 
> Here is the post- What happens if I put a 1TB SSD in my HR44-700?
> 
> Perhaps it was a defective Samsung SSD, but I bought 4 of them at the same time, placed 3 in external TT docks, and one inside my other HR24, which was our primary viewing receiver. I never had overheating issues in that HR24 before or after that with standard HDD's, nor have I ever had to replace the fan in that DVR (it's not a HR24-100 with two 45 degree ends on the fan, which are really problematic and prone to failure quicker than those with the completely square fan). None of the other SSD's showed the same symptoms in the external docks. *I have since moved that 'defective' SSD to an external drive, on a different DVR located in my attached garage, and have to reboot that DVR every 9 to 13 days since the SSD will make the DVR unresponsive to any commands after that time period.* It doesn't matter if it is the summer or winter months, the reboot has to happen.
> 
> I have not tried ANY of my SSD's in my HR54. The 54 has been speedy rock solid even with a 6TB internal and external drive connected to it, both at over 65% full of recordings.
> 
> I understand if there is skepticism by others to my one experience of mounting the SSD drive internally, but it's also about testing as many of us DirecTV nerds do sometimes. That particular test failed for me, but maybe it was a freak incident with a potentially defective SSD. I'm out of the warranty period now, but wanted to share my result after someone else was entertaining mounting the SSD inside of their DVR.


And there it is. I searched for that post so many times and couldn't find it. Since the SSD is affecting a DVR when mounted externally the blame for all the problems associated with that SSD must be caused by that SSD, or am I looking at that in the wrong way?

What I highlighted above really interests me. I've had some (don't remember exactly how many) 24-500s become unresponsive to remote commands and always thought that was a box/model problem. What you wrote makes it look like a drive can cause that. If that happens to me again I will try swapping SSDs.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

codespy said:


> <--- None of the other SSD's showed the same symptoms in the external docks. I have since moved that 'defective' SSD to an external drive, on a different DVR located in my attached garage, *and have to reboot that DVR every 9 to 13 days since the SSD will make the DVR unresponsive to any commands after that time period*. It doesn't matter if it is the summer or winter months,* the reboot has to happen*.
> --->
> 
> .





Rich said:


> And there it is. I searched for that post so many times and couldn't find it. Since the SSD is affecting a DVR when mounted externally the blame for all the problems associated with that SSD must be caused by that SSD, or am I looking at that in the wrong way?
> 
> What I highlighted above really interests me. I've had some (don't remember exactly how many) 24-500s become unresponsive to remote commands and always thought that was a box/model problem. What you wrote makes it look like a drive can cause that. If that happens to me again I will try swapping SSDs.
> 
> Rich


Been my experience since pretty near the beginning with the SSD in the dock of the HR21. That reboot _has_ to take place, generally within 10 days tops.

I never blamed the SSD. I figured it was just the HR21's inability to "handle" being connected to the SSD.

I figure it's still worth the modest performance gain, though. (With HDDs the resets usually weren't necessary for six weeks or more.)

I don't know if this is normal across the board for HRs, but I'll probably try another SSD at some point and see if it still locks-up.

Other than those resets, the SSD has been a solid performer. I haven't lost any recordings, and have been running on the same 15 to 20+ percent free space for quite a number of months, now. (I really gotta watch-down those series!)

Interestingly enough, many times if I've failed to preemptively restart, when the HR does lock-up the activity light on the dock is showing _excessive_ access.


----------



## P Smith

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I figured it was just the HR21's inability to "handle" being connected to the SSD.


OS [Linux] of the device have nothing to do differently with SSD vs HDD !

Perhaps BIST SMART tests would run faster, but the difference in SMART domain is backward compatible with HDD SMART.

Major hurdle of SSD is faster wearing, as TRIM support is not implemented in FW of the DVRs from DTV.


----------



## compnurd

Would be really interesting to see the results of someone putting a SSD in a HS17


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Been my experience since pretty near the beginning with the SSD in the dock of the HR21. That reboot _has_ to take place, generally within 10 days tops.
> 
> I never blamed the SSD. I figured it was just the HR21's inability to "handle" being connected to the SSD.
> 
> I figure it's still worth the modest performance gain, though. (With HDDs the resets usually weren't necessary for six weeks or more.)
> 
> I don't know if this is normal across the board for HRs, but I'll probably try another SSD at some point and see if it still locks-up.
> 
> Other than those resets, the SSD has been a solid performer. I haven't lost any recordings, and have been running on the same 15 to 20+ percent free space for quite a number of months, now. (I really gotta watch-down those series!)
> 
> Interestingly enough, many times if I've failed to preemptively restart, *when the HR does lock-up the activity light on the dock is showing excessive access.*


Remember what I just went thru with my 44 and the dock. The 44 kept crashing and I thought it was either the 44 or the SSD that was causing the crashes. Turned out to be the TT dock. I took the 1TB drive I had originally put on the 44 and mounted it internally. The crashes stopped completely. The dock was the problem. The 44 has run steadily since I removed the internal SSD, remounted the 3TB HDD, and put a new 2TB SSD externally on the 44. Make sure the problem you're having is not caused by your dock. What I highlighted above might be a clue.

Rich


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> Would be really interesting to see the results of someone putting a SSD in a HS17


Would be the same as mounting it externally. If the 17s are anything like my 44, it would be a lot easier to mount the drive externally. The HDDs in the 44s are a ***** to get out and even worse to put back. The price we pay for a smaller DVR. They really cram the HDDs in the 44s.

Rich


----------



## compnurd

Rich said:


> Would be the same as mounting it externally. If the 17s are anything like my 44, it would be a lot easier to mount the drive externally. The HDDs in the 44s are a ***** to get out and even worse to put back. The price we pay for a smaller DVR. They really cram the HDDs in the 44s.
> 
> Rich


I am thinking more of would it do anything for speed. Not that I think the HS17/client set up is slow.. But would be curious


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> I am thinking more of would it do anything for speed. Not that I think the HS17/client set up is slow.. But would be curious


I've never seen anything that would make me think an internal drive would work better or worse than an external drive. Other than ease of mounting and that goes to the external drives.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

Rich said:


> If the 17s are anything like my 44, it would be a lot easier to mount the drive externally.


it could have ceased eSATA port


----------



## compnurd

P Smith said:


> it could have ceased eSATA port


Mine has the eSATA port but I am not looking to tack on storage I am just saying straight replacement from the WD Green Drive to the SSD if there would be a performance change


----------



## P Smith

compnurd said:


> Mine has the eSATA port but I am not looking to tack on storage I am just saying straight replacement from the WD Green Drive to the SSD if there would be a performance change


users telling how fast the HS17 &#8230; what kind of performance change you are expecting or willing to see ?


----------



## codespy

compnurd said:


> I am thinking more of would it do anything for speed. Not that I think the HS17/client set up is slow.. But would be curious


I don't think you will see any difference. I've never had a reason to put a SSD in my HR54. It's fast enough with magnetic drives.


----------



## Rich

compnurd said:


> Mine has the eSATA port but I am not looking to tack on storage I am just saying straight replacement from the WD Green Drive to the SSD if there would be a performance change


"The only time you'd see a change in performance is when you put a new drive in place of an old drive." That makes sense but I'm not sure it's absolutely true. When I got the 44 the first thing I did was put a Green WD 3TB HDD in it. The 44 never worked all that well. Yeah, it was fast, but it was always cranky. All the crankiness disappeared as soon as I put the SSD in it. And it was immediately faster than it had ever been. Would that happen to your HR? Probably.

One of the great mistakes I've made here was recommending the WD 5400RPM drives. I should have kept using and recommending the Seagate 7200RPM HDDs. Or 7200RPM WD HDDs. Every HDD I've pulled out of HRs has been a 7200RPM drive, they come with them for a reason. I should have realized that.

I hope you put an SSD in that HR. I hope you see the same thing I did. In it or on it, I don't think it makes any difference as far as performance goes. You have the SATA port, take the easy path and mount it externally and let's see if you see what I saw two years ago. The first time I lit the 44 off with the SSD on it I was stunned by the leap in performance.

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I don't think you will see any difference. I've never had a reason to put a SSD in my HR54. It's fast enough with magnetic drives.


Would you tell us about the 6TB HDD, make, model, speed, age?

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> Would you tell us about the 6TB HDD, make, model, speed, age?
> 
> Rich


I'm using WD Blue- 6TB. They are at the 3 year old mark and the primary one I use is about 60% full. Speed is still faster than my 24's with SSD's.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I'm using WD Blue- 6TB. They are at the 3 year old mark and the primary one I use is about 60% full. Speed is still faster than my 24's with SSD's.


I'd think a Genie would always have better speed than a 24. My 44 is faster than any of my 24s. The 3-year mark is where I think the HDDs begin to show degradation. Ballpark figure, thinking somewhere around 3 years.

Rich


----------



## 242424

Anybody hear of this brand? Seems cheap.

500GB SSD, Internal SSD 2.5Inch SATAIII 6Gb/s, 3D NAND Flash, Read Speeds up to | eBay


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> I'd think a Genie would always have better speed than a 24. My 44 is faster than any of my 24s. The 3-year mark is where I think the HDDs begin to show degradation. Ballpark figure, thinking somewhere around 3 years.
> 
> Rich


Agreed, except for the Genie 34. I was just making a reference that after adding a SSD to a HR24- The speed is very identical to my HR54 right now, and my 54 is faster than when I had a HR44 for a year before that. I've had my 54-500 for 3.5 years now.


----------



## codespy

242424 said:


> Anybody hear of this brand? Seems cheap.
> 
> 500GB SSD, Internal SSD 2.5Inch SATAIII 6Gb/s, 3D NAND Flash, Read Speeds up to | eBay


I haven't. Are you willing to be the guinea pig on this with DTV DVR and see if it works well?


----------



## jimmie57

242424 said:


> Anybody hear of this brand? Seems cheap.
> 
> 500GB SSD, Internal SSD 2.5Inch SATAIII 6Gb/s, 3D NAND Flash, Read Speeds up to | eBay


I typed in the brand name shown on the device. The web site is blocked by Norton and says it is a dangerous web site. I did see that it is a Chinese brand.
My 2 cents is to stick with a name that you know.


----------



## P Smith

Anyone could open a company mfg-ing SSD.
Same NAND chips and same SATA controller as brand names using.
Order to design PCB and a box for you - and start making money !


----------



## 242424

I stuck a SSD on my HR24-200 and if I reboot the receiver (I've done it twice) it boots back up to the HD inside the DVR.Is this normal? If it is I would have to go through the process of installing the SSD in the dock every time the power goes out.....


----------



## b4pjoe

Unplug the receiver and SSD dock Plug in the SSD dock and turn it on with the SSD plugged in. Wait aobut 30 seconds then plug in the receiver and see if it now finds the SSD to boot from.


----------



## 242424

Oh I can get it to boot to the SSD no problem but who wants go go through that every time the power goes out? Then if I'm not home I'll miss any recordings I have set. I may stick it inside.


----------



## WestDC

242424 said:


> Oh I can get it to boot to the SSD no problem but who wants go go through that every time the power goes out? Then if I'm not home I'll miss any recordings I have set. I may stick it inside.


You only have to do that when you first set up a eSTATA External Drive --Once that is done it will always reboot from the eSTATA Drive --no matter if you lose AC power or just do a red button reset.

If you ever wish to return to the internal drive --Remove AC power from the receiver (after shutdown) uplug the estata cord and then power the receiver back up. The receiver will boot from the internal drive


----------



## 242424

Someone needs to tell my SSD/receiver that. lol Like I said above, I've rebooted it twice and it booted to the internal drive instead of the SSD both times.


----------



## WestDC

242424 said:


> Someone needs to tell my SSD/receiver that. lol Like I said above, I've rebooted it twice and it booted to the internal drive instead of the SSD both times.


1. Using your remote --Menu -Settings --Restart receiver (when the receiver front of the receiver goes dark) unplug it from AC power ---Then Connect your estata Drive & power it up (WAIT) for at least 1 minute for the drive to fully come up.
Then Plug your receiver AC cord in and turn it on --It should then see the eSTATA drive


----------



## b4pjoe

I've never had it revert back to using the internal drive once it recognizes and boots from the SSD once. If I unplug it...when I plug it back in it still boots from the external.


----------



## 242424

WestDC said:


> 1. Using your remote --Menu -Settings --Restart receiver (when the receiver front of the receiver goes dark) unplug it from AC power ---Then Connect your estata Drive & power it up (WAIT) for at least 1 minute for the drive to fully come up.
> Then Plug your receiver AC cord in and turn it on --It should then see the eSTATA drive


Again I had no problem getting it to recognize the SSD but I rebooted it and it went back to the internal HD. Twice.


----------



## P Smith

b4pjoe said:


> it still boots from the external


FYI: DVR is NOT booting from HDD or SSD; it using the drives as a storage


----------



## b4pjoe

Whatever man....it needs to see the proper hard drive when it starts up and once mine recognizes the external hard drive it no longer tries to boot up and use the internal hard drive.


----------



## WestDC

242424 said:


> Again I had no problem getting it to recognize the SSD but I rebooted it and it went back to the internal HD. Twice.


When it booted to the SSD --Did you take time to record anything? and set up a series? try that and then reboot


----------



## carl6

The key is of course, that the external drive be powered on and available at the time the DVR is powered on. Normally, neither should ever have power removed (when you turn an HR24 "off" all you are doing is putting it in standby). If the external drive (and/or DVR) is actually turned off (power removed), then the proper startup sequence needs to happen - external drive powered and ready, then DVR started. When you "turn on" an HR24, all you are doing it taking it out of standby, which mostly involves enabling the video output. All of its other functions remain active, so it can do scheduled recordings, etc. For all of that to happen, the external drive needs to remain fully on at all times.


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> Oh I can get it to boot to the SSD no problem but who wants go go through that every time the power goes out? Then if I'm not home I'll miss any recordings I have set. I may stick it inside.


That should not happen. When you lose power, and the power comes back on, the HR will reboot and the SSD should be the primary drive. What kind of external device are you using? That might be the problem.

Rich


----------



## 242424

WestDC said:


> When it booted to the SSD --Did you take time to record anything? and set up a series? try that and then reboot


No I didn't, I'll give that a shot. Thanks



Rich said:


> That should not happen. When you lose power, and the power comes back on, the HR will reboot and the SSD should be the primary drive. What kind of external device are you using? That might be the problem.
> 
> Rich


It's a Thermaltake BlackX Rich


----------



## codespy

That’s weird. I have over 10 of the TT BlackX’s connected to my DVR’s and they always reboot on the external if there’s a power outage. Maybe just unplug the power plug on the internal HDD to eliminate your issue.


----------



## 242424

Update: lol 
Couldn't get it to boot again to the external SSD and one time it came up with a blue screen saying something like 'something is wrong with storage device and it may be as simple as restarting the receiver".

That tells me that either the SSD, dock, cable or port on the receiver is bad. I'm sending the SSD back and calling an end to this experiment. While it was working the speed was nice but it still had audio dropouts and that was one of the reasons I installed it. Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> No I didn't, I'll give that a shot. Thanks
> 
> It's a Thermaltake BlackX Rich


I had a feeling that was what you were using. I have had that happen with a couple of TT docks. I got rid of all my TT docks, and I use these external devices for SSDs: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
No problems yet with these devices. I always had problems getting HDDs recognized when I was using HDDs externally with TT docks. All my docks were old and had been used for years.

Rich


----------



## Rich

242424 said:


> Update: lol
> Couldn't get it to boot again to the external SSD and one time it came up with a blue screen saying something like 'something is wrong with storage device and it may be as simple as restarting the receiver".
> 
> That tells me that either the SSD, dock, cable or port on the receiver is bad. I'm sending the SSD back and calling an end to this experiment. While it was working the speed was nice but it still had audio dropouts and that was one of the reasons I installed it. Thanks for the help guys.


I doubt the SSD is the problem.

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> That's weird. I have over 10 of the TT BlackX's connected to my DVR's and they always reboot on the external if there's a power outage. Maybe just unplug the power plug on the internal HDD to eliminate your issue.


I had similar problems, the docks I had were old and the small form devices I use now are trouble-free so far.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

this thread is very interesting indeed. I've experimented with several drives, both ssd & hdd. I have replaced the 5400 wd green drive in my owned hr54 with a samsung 860 evo 1tb. it runs fantastic. menu commands are nearly instant. scrolling the guide is smooth as silk. I was worried about ssd failure but with this evo, if my genie writes at 400gb every single day it would still take roughly 4 years to reach the stated tbw of the evo ssd. i dont see my genie writing that much per day. I could be wrong & I often am, but I don't think it will write that much. I have 7 shows I season pass & some are ending. the rest is live buffering. 

I've tried a 2tb 7200 rpm seagate and that thing is noisy and HOT. I had to remove it.
next I experimented with a wb blue 2tb ssd. the genie would format the drive but that's as far as it got. it did not like that particular ssd.
the samsung 860 qvo also works good. it has a higher tbw endurance than the evo but its 2tb and I use it on my pc for oculus rift vr.
the wd blue 2tb 5400 hdd with 256mb cache works excellent. speed is quick and for a 5400 im impressed. I would definitely use it over a 7200rpm hdd. 

for now I'm gonna leave my 1tb evo installed and see how it behaves over the next month. then I'm gonna read the smart data and see just how much data is written to the drive to get a better estimate of its lifespan. 

ssd's have come a long way over the last year or 2. their endurance is pretty impressive. I use ssd's in everything. my boot drive is a 860 pro nvme. its been flawless for about 2yrs now.


----------



## P Smith

JcT21 said:


> for now I'm gonna leave my 1tb evo installed and see how it behaves over the next month. then I'm gonna read the smart data and see just how much data is written to the drive to get a better estimate of its lifespan.


please post your finding here after your regular SMART checkups


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> this thread is very interesting indeed. I've experimented with several drives, both ssd & hdd. I have replaced the 5400 wd green drive in my owned hr54 with a samsung 860 evo 1tb. it runs fantastic. menu commands are nearly instant. scrolling the guide is smooth as silk. I was worried about ssd failure but with this evo, if my genie writes at 400gb every single day it would still take roughly 4 years to reach the stated tbw of the evo ssd. i dont see my genie writing that much per day. I could be wrong & I often am, but I don't think it will write that much. I have 7 shows I season pass & some are ending. the rest is live buffering.
> 
> I've tried a 2tb 7200 rpm seagate and that thing is noisy and HOT. I had to remove it.
> next I experimented with a wb blue 2tb ssd. the genie would format the drive but that's as far as it got. it did not like that particular ssd.
> the samsung 860 qvo also works good. it has a higher tbw endurance than the evo but its 2tb and I use it on my pc for oculus rift vr.
> the wd blue 2tb 5400 hdd with 256mb cache works excellent. speed is quick and for a 5400 im impressed. I would definitely use it over a 7200rpm hdd.
> 
> for now I'm gonna leave my 1tb evo installed and see how it behaves over the next month. then I'm gonna read the smart data and see just how much data is written to the drive to get a better estimate of its lifespan.
> 
> ssd's have come a long way over the last year or 2. their endurance is pretty impressive. I use ssd's in everything. my boot drive is a 860 pro nvme. its been flawless for about 2yrs now.


I gave up on Seagate HDDs years ago. They made too much noise. But, if you have a place where noise doesn't matter they would be a better choice than the slower WD drives. I have a WD Blue SSD and it works as well as the rest of them.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

Rich said:


> I gave up on Seagate HDDs years ago. They made too much noise. But, if you have a place where noise doesn't matter they would be a better choice than the slower WD drives. I have a WD Blue SSD and it works as well as the rest of them.
> 
> Rich


my wd blue ssd worked great in a hr54-500 by humax but this 54-700 by pace wont have anything to do with it.

i did a 32gb speed test between the wd 2tb blue 5400 w 256mb cache, wd 1tb blue 7200 w 64mb cache & the hot 'n noisy seagate 2tb 7200 w 64mb cache. the wd 5400 beat them both. perhaps its the 256mb cache which makes a difference. the other drives scored 190's in the r/w test and the 5400 was 209/203 in the same test. i used crystal disk mark.


----------



## JcT21

P Smith said:


> please post your finding here after your regular SMART checkups


 i sure will. curiosity is getting the best of me. i may check it in a week. by then all my season passes will record and i can still get a general idea of how much is being written.


----------



## JcT21

after a typical week of tv watching and recording I pulled the drive to check the data. on the average day, my tv goes from 5am to 1030 pm by either the dvr or all 3 boxes at the same time. I recorded 7 shows this week also. the rest was live buffering/paused tv/double play.

divided up the data written by day and there were 288GB per day written to the 1TB samsung evo. going by that, if every week was used as heavily as this past week, which it wont always be, my ssd should last me 5.7 years before reaching the total tbw threshold.

if any of you are considering using an ssd in your owned genie dvr's be sure to get one with the highest TBW rating you can afford. ssd's are not as expensive as they were a few years ago and the performance difference is, in my opinion, worth the upgrade. the 860 evo I'm using has a 600 TBW rating. reports show it can go well past that mark. ill keep using it until it dies. chances are it will outlive my hr54.


----------



## P Smith

or sat TV will die before ")


----------



## JcT21

P Smith said:


> or sat TV will die before ")


you are probably right about that one 

while I had the ssd pulled I decided to do a quick experiment with another hdd I have.

brand new wd blue 5400rpm 2tb with 256mb cache vs. my 1tb evo ssd.

wanted to do a boot test to see which drive went from red button to live tv the fastest. here is what I found.

the 5400rpm took 3:27.52 from red button to live tv.
the ssd took 3:52.65 from red button to live tv.

its not that much of a difference but I was shocked to say the least. never seen that one coming. however the ssd provides extremely faster menu responses. nearly instantaneous. smooth as silk guide scrolling & everything else. I did the test twice and got similar results. +/- few seconds.

because the ssd is much faster once booted it does make an excellent upgrade.


----------



## P Smith

perhaps you saw just time variation in "a carousel" - the method of obtaining APG data from sat stream;
other point is - the external storage [HDD/SSD] using by DTV OS/Linux to keep/update many DBs, I would recommend you mount the drive under Linux and look by yourself - how many DBs there, how big its size, etc; from message log files you'll see time stamps and get a knowledge what/when OS components running


----------



## CenturyBreak

Has anyone tried a WD Purple drive in an HR? I know they're optimized for multi-camera surveillance DVRs, but I've read a few reports elsewhere of folks presuming they'd be fine for other-than-DTV 2-stream cable/sat DVRs and have been happy with their performance...

I ask as the 2TB WD Green I've been using (in a seemingly-bulletproof Thermaltake dock) with my trusty old (also seemingly-bulletproof) HR20 is on borrowed time: it appears to work perfectly (if a bit slow at times) but I'm sure it's over 10 years old now!


----------



## codespy

CenturyBreak said:


> Has anyone tried a WD Purple drive in an HR? I know they're optimized for multi-camera surveillance DVRs, but I've read a few reports elsewhere of folks presuming they'd be fine for other-than-DTV 2-stream cable/sat DVRs and have been happy with their performance...
> 
> I ask as the 2TB WD Green I've been using (in a seemingly-bulletproof Thermaltake dock) with my trusty old (also seemingly-bulletproof) HR20 is on borrowed time: it appears to work perfectly (if a bit slow at times) but I'm sure it's over 10 years old now!


I've never done Purple, only 2TB Greens for a long time and then a couple of Blues.

Seriously though, I'll never do a magnetic again, especially in a HR2x series. I just went with another 1TB WD Blue SSD last week from BB for a little over 90 bucks. They have that sale a couple times a month and works perfectly in my TT dock.


----------



## CenturyBreak

codespy said:


> I've never done Purple, only 2TB Greens for a long time and then a couple of Blues.
> 
> Seriously though, I'll never do a magnetic again, especially in a HR2x series. I just went with another 1TB WD Blue SSD last week from BB for a little over 90 bucks. They have that sale a couple times a month and works perfectly in my TT dock.


Thanks!

My dilemma is replacing a 2TB magnetic drive... copying isn't an issue... although it's been a decade or so since I've needed to do it... but 2TB SSDs with decent MTBF and TBW (i.e. Samsungs!) are still rather dear in price...


----------



## Rich

CenturyBreak said:


> Thanks!
> 
> My dilemma is replacing a 2TB magnetic drive... copying isn't an issue... although it's been a decade or so since I've needed to do it... but 2TB SSDs with decent MTBF and TBW (i.e., Samsungs!) are still rather dear in price...


I always tried to keep my HDDs at no more than half full. Any more than that on a two-tuner HR, and you have problems. Use an SSD, and you can fill that sucker up with no problems. I've filled up 500GB SSDs and had no problems at all. Simply put, you should be able to fill a 1TB SSD to its limit without problems. Do that consistently with a 2TB HDD, and you're gonna have problems.

Rich


----------



## CenturyBreak

Rich said:


> I always tried to keep my HDDs at no more than half full. Any more than that on a two-tuner HR, and you have problems. Use an SSD, and you can fill that sucker up with no problems. I've filled up 500GB SSDs and had no problems at all. Simply put, you should be able to fill a 1TB SSD to its limit without problems. Do that consistently with a 2TB HDD, and you're gonna have problems.
> 
> Rich


Rich, thanks for the comments.

As mentioned, my concern is that the WD Green is long in the tooth, and I'd like to copy it to a replacement before it inevitably gives up the ghost! There's material on it that isn't available from other sources... believe me, I've looked! In the days before multiple streaming services became as common as they are today, I had a lot of movies stored, along with TV episodes. I've since deleted (most of) the movies and some of the TV, and the HR20 is mostly used for a few weeks of various series that I'm behind on watching.

I try to keep the drive below 75% full... currently ~ 70%. When it was newer, below 80% was all that was needed to keep things snappy... other than occasionally slow guide scrolling. Nowadays, it sometimes has an issue with strobing (or dropping frames in a pattern) on OTA broadcasts, which are my big reason for keeping the HR20.  It seems to happen more often the more full the drive is, but flushing the buffer (switching to SD channels seems to do the best job...) usually clears it... I'm not sure if the receiver is trying to write to a flaky sector or three, or...

My next project is re-reviewing the two copy/replace drive megathreads for current best practices: best versions of GParted to use, etc.!


----------



## codespy

Just keep the 2TB HDD inside the HR20, and utilize a new SSD in your dock for daily use- I’ve been doing this for years. 

When you want to watch something on the old drive, just shutoff the TT and reboot- which takes you to the internal. When your done, turn on the TT and reboot, and the DVR will switch back to the external. I’ve been doing this for years.


----------



## CenturyBreak

codespy said:


> Just keep the 2TB HDD inside the HR20, and utilize a new SSD in your dock for daily use- I've been doing this for years.
> 
> When you want to watch something on the old drive, just shutoff the TT and reboot- which takes you to the internal. When your done, turn on the TT and reboot, and the DVR will switch back to the external. I've been doing this for years.


Thanks... but the 2TB drive is already in the external dock, as mentioned in my first post above.  After all, the HR20 is the one HR2x that's the biggest pain for replacing internal drives... I've never even thought of trying to open it. My other trusty old HR, the HR23, is so easy you can open and swap drives with your eyes closed... in your sleep... nearly... 

Needless to say, I could swap back and forth between the old and new drive, but one thing that's less than bulletproof about the Thermaltake docks are their power switches... I'm already tempting fate!


----------



## codespy

I hear you, but was just providing options. The 20 is a little tricky, but once you do it you’re done. The warranty is up on those and DirecTV is not taking them back.

I’ve been one of the lucky ones to not have a TT failure with power switch. The alternative to that is to turn on/off using the power supply plug.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I hear you, but was just providing options. The 20 is a little tricky, but once you do it you're done. The warranty is up on those and DirecTV is not taking them back.
> 
> I've been one of the lucky ones to not have a TT failure with power switch. The alternative to that is to turn on/off using the power supply plug.


I stopped using the switch years ago after a couple of switch failures. All the TT docks are gone and replaced with smaller docks for the SSDs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CenturyBreak said:


> Thanks... but the 2TB drive is already in the external dock, as mentioned in my first post above.  After all, the HR20 is the one HR2x that's the biggest pain for replacing internal drives... I've never even thought of trying to open it. My other trusty old HR, the HR23, is so easy you can open and swap drives with your eyes closed... in your sleep... nearly...
> 
> Needless to say, I could swap back and forth between the old and new drive, but one thing that's less than bulletproof about the Thermaltake docks are their power switches... I'm already tempting fate!


Which model of the 20s do you have? I've had a bunch of 20-100s, not one of them worked. I never had a problem changing HDDs in the 20-700s. I had twelve of them active at one time, each one had an internal 2TB drive.

Rich


----------



## WestDC

RICH is the SSD Test pilot and I've followed his advice and it works above and beyond my expectations


----------



## MysteryMan

WestDC said:


> RICH is the SSD Test pilot and I've followed his advice and it works above and beyond my expectations


I agree.


----------



## CenturyBreak

codespy said:


> I hear you, but was just providing options. The 20 is a little tricky, but once you do it you're done. The warranty is up on those and DirecTV is not taking them back.
> 
> I've been one of the lucky ones to not have a TT failure with power switch. The alternative to that is to turn on/off using the power supply plug.


Thanks. After I read your earlier reply a third time (after I'd replied, naturally!) I did finally get what you were getting at... my bad...


----------



## CenturyBreak

Rich said:


> I stopped using the switch years ago after a couple of switch failures. All the TT docks are gone and replaced with smaller docks for the SSDs.
> 
> Rich


Thanks. It's been a while since I've read through the entirety of this thread... which docks are you using now?

I _*will *_re-read this thread, of course!



Rich said:


> Which model of the 20s do you have? I've had a bunch of 20-100s, not one of them worked. I never had a problem changing HDDs in the 20-700s. I had twelve of them active at one time, each one had an internal 2TB drive.
> 
> Rich


It is a -700. I just remember reading the initial posts in the first copy/replace megathread and quickly decided a dock was the way to go!


----------



## WestDC

CenturyBreak said:


> Thanks. It's been a while since I've read through the entirety of this thread... which docks are you using now?
> 
> I _*will *_re-read this thread, of course!
> 
> It is a -700. I just remember reading the initial posts in the first copy/replace megathread and quickly decided a dock was the way to go!


Amazon.com: MiniPro External 2.5-inch eSATA, USB-C External Hard Drive Enclosure: Computers & Accessories


----------



## codespy

CenturyBreak said:


> .....
> It is a -700. I just remember reading the initial posts in the first copy/replace megathread and quickly decided a dock was the way to go!


Agreed- dock is the way to go. I've had 20-100's and -700's. The -100's were twitchy and it's the only model of the HR2x series where I lost a motherboard and hence 3 hard drives of recordings.

My -700 is still rocking and still fairly easy to change the drive.

3 days ago I did have to change another fan (another non-square one) in one of my HR24-100's that locked up after 11 years, but that's why I have spares. I keep a lot of fans in stock for my setup of so many DVR's!


----------



## CenturyBreak

codespy said:


> Agreed- dock is the way to go. I've had 20-100's and -700's. The -100's were twitchy and it's the only model of the HR2x series where I lost a motherboard and hence 3 hard drives of recordings.
> 
> My -700 is still rocking and still fairly easy to change the drive.
> 
> 3 days ago I did have to change another fan (another non-square one) in one of my HR24-100's that locked up after 11 years, but that's why I have spares. I keep a lot of fans in stock for my setup of so many DVR's!


That's one thing I haven't done: stock up on fans... for the HR20-700 I want to live forever (OTA locals, of course... ) and the HR23-700... at least I'm pretty sure it's also a -700...


----------



## codespy

As mentioned about a zillion other times on this site, get rid of that HR23. I had 3 of them when they first came out and were the absolute worst out of the entire HR2x series- and I’ve had every model.

They will give you a HR24 and your life will change immediately for the better, even more so with a SSD on that too! You will immediately regret hanging on to the HR23 as long as you did.

Just sayin’.


----------



## CenturyBreak

codespy said:


> As mentioned about a zillion other times on this site, get rid of that HR23. I had 3 of them when they first came out and were the absolute worst out of the entire HR2x series- and I've had every model.
> 
> They will give you a HR24 and your life will change immediately for the better, even more so with a SSD on that too!  You will immediately regret hanging on to the HR23 as long as you did.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Interesting!

I've read many times that the HR22 was the worst of them all... or the 21... or both... 

I know the HR24 is faster than all those that came before, but I've only had one problem with the HR23, and a replacement power supply from a donor box solved that problem PDQ.  I even find the 23 to be faster (menus, scrolling, etc.) than the 20... which is still pretty snappy.


----------



## WestDC

CenturyBreak said:


> Interesting!
> 
> I've read many times that the HR22 was the worst of them all... or the 21... or both...
> 
> I know the HR24 is faster than all those that came before, but I've only had one problem with the HR23, and a replacement power supply from a donor box solved that problem PDQ.  I even find the 23 to be faster (menus, scrolling, etc.) than the 20... which is still pretty snappy.


Don't believe everything you read --I have 2 HR22's since 2009 -still going strong


----------



## codespy

CenturyBreak said:


> Interesting!
> 
> I've read many times that the HR22 was the worst of them all... or the 21... or both...
> 
> I know the HR24 is faster than all those that came before, but I've only had one problem with the HR23, and a replacement power supply from a donor box solved that problem PDQ.  I even find the 23 to be faster (menus, scrolling, etc.) than the 20... which is still pretty snappy.


I still have a HR22 also, along with my 20 and all my 24's. The 23's were the WORST. Just do a search for threads about 10 years ago on this.

Replace it with a 24 and maybe even with a SSD. Soon your love life will improve, you'll get a better Sleep Score every night, you will feel more productive and happier during the day.


----------



## CenturyBreak

codespy said:


> I still have a HR22 also, along with my 20 and all my 24's. The 23's were the WORST. Just do a search for threads about 10 years ago on this.
> 
> Replace it with a 24 and maybe even with a SSD. Soon your love life will improve, you'll get a better Sleep Score every night, you will feel more productive and happier during the day.


----------



## Rich

CenturyBreak said:


> Thanks. It's been a while since I've read through the entirety of this thread... which docks are you using now?
> 
> I _*will *_re-read this thread, of course!
> 
> It is a -700. I just remember reading the initial posts in the first copy/replace megathread and quickly decided a dock was the way to go!


Glad to see it's a 700, those 100s damn near drove me crazy.

Rich


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Amazon.com: MiniPro External 2.5-inch eSATA, USB-C External Hard Drive Enclosure: Computers & Accessories


They are so much better than the TT docks. Much easier to use. Not disparaging the TT docks, they had their time, and they were the best external devices out there at that time, I think.

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Agreed- dock is the way to go. I've had 20-100's and -700's. The -100's were twitchy and it's the only model of the HR2x series where I lost a motherboard and hence 3 hard drives of recordings.
> 
> My -700 is still rocking and still fairly easy to change the drive.
> 
> 3 days ago I did have to change another fan (another non-square one) in one of my HR24-100's that locked up after 11 years, but that's why I have spares. I keep a lot of fans in stock for my setup of so many DVR's!


Weird, all the DVRs I've had and not one fan failure. All the TT docks I had failed and you've had no problems with them. Weird.

Rich


----------



## Rich

CenturyBreak said:


> Interesting!
> 
> I've read many times that the HR22 was the worst of them all... or the 21... or both...
> 
> I know the HR24 is faster than all those that came before, but I've only had one problem with the HR23, and a replacement power supply from a donor box solved that problem PDQ.  I even find the 23 to be faster (menus, scrolling, etc.) than the 20... which is still pretty snappy.


The problem you'll have with a 24 will be the internal HDD. When the HRs are refurbished, they don't put new HDDs in them. That shouldn't matter to you; you're gonna use an external drive, and if you use an SSD, that 24 will be the best, fastest DVR you've ever had. If you're used to and happy with a 23, you are gonna have an epiphany. You don't have to read this whole thread; all you have to do is stick an SSD on any HR; you will understand what we're talking about.

Rich


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Don't believe everything you read --I have 2 HR22's since 2009 -still going strong


Do you remember Mike Greer and his 22s?

Rich


----------



## WestDC

Mike Greer said:


> Does it feel like the "My HR2x is slow, sucks etc" threads are going to come on full force again or is it just me?
> 
> Once again the new realease was supposed to speed things up but it seems to have my HR22 slowing way down - maybe worse than the last time things were going to 'speed up' with the a release.
> 
> MRV is/would be a cool thing but not if it makes already way to slow receivers even slower!
> 
> I have tried the usual reboots - doesn't help. Later today I guess I'll pull the network cables and restart and/or opt-out of MRV to see what happens but as it stands now I'm wishing I could go back to the old version and the old slow rather than the new slow.
> 
> Here's hoping they figure out some way to make make these things work!





Rich said:


> Do you remember Mike Greer and his 22s?
> 
> Rich


You mean this? 

I had My HR22's and all RECEIVERS on UPS and all Hr22's were running CE software till they Hr2X were dropped from the program --They were on "LAN" Home Network long before
DECA was introduced --When D* did DECA --I went to version 1(the white DECA) about 3 years ago I went to the latest version of DECA for the HR22's and it improved them some what.

I only have a SSD on one of my Hr22's the other is still on the org. drive and at 80% --I use them Now to view content and record over Whole home --so response time from the remote and all those other complaints are really do not affect my use.

I would change them out --But really it's no point --I know the devil I have and they will ship me a HR24 that many people have had --At some point After the -NEW owners take full control --I may junk all my Receivers and get a HS-17 and 3 C61K's --that alone would drop my bill Saving me $14 a Month in Equipment charges


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> You mean this?
> 
> I had My HR22's and all RECEIVERS on UPS and all Hr22's were running CE software till they Hr2X were dropped from the program --They were on "LAN" Home Network long before
> DECA was introduced --When D* did DECA --I went to version 1(the white DECA) about 3 years ago I went to the latest version of DECA for the HR22's and it improved them some what.
> 
> I only have a SSD on one of my Hr22's the other is still on the org. drive and at 80% --I use them Now to view content and record over Whole home --so response time from the remote and all those other complaints are really do not affect my use.
> 
> I would change them out --But really it's no point --I know the devil I have and they will ship me a HR24 that many people have had --At some point After the -NEW owners take full control --I may junk all my Receivers and get a HS-17 and 3 C61K's --that alone would drop my bill Saving me $14 a Month in Equipment charges


Yeah, that Mike Greer. Funny guy. He bought three 22's IIRC, and had so many problems with them that we all had to laugh. That was a time when nothing worked and a few chuckles were appreciated.

But, the 22s and the 23 never should have been made.

I'd like to try the HS17 but one DVR? I know that would fail during a Super Bowl or the World Series. I've had too many problems with the HRs to trust them enough to go with one DVR in the house.


----------



## JcT21

for those of you that use ssd's in your genie, how long have you been using them in your genie? have you had any ssd failures, and if so how long was it in use when it failed? what brand are you using and what size? do you leave programming on them for an extended time? if you do, does it affect your dvr speed?

for a little over a month ive been using a samsung 1tb evo in my genie. i have had excellent results with it so far. there are so many mixed results from users all over the internet.


----------



## P Smith

Rich gave you all the answers , see all posts above your post


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> for those of you that use ssd's in your genie, how long have you been using them in your genie? have you had any ssd failures, and if so how long was it in use when it failed? what brand are you using and what size? do you leave programming on them for an extended time? if you do, does it affect your dvr speed?
> 
> for a little over a month ive been using a samsung 1tb evo in my genie. i have had excellent results with it so far. there are so many mixed results from users all over the internet.


I just had my 44-700 replaced. If you go back to the first posts in this thread that will give you an idea. I took the 2TB SSD out of the 44-700 and put it on the 54 that replaced the 44. No failures, no problems...at all.
I have Crucials, Samsungs and WD SSDs. Most are 2TB drives.

I don't use my DVRs for series or movies, only sports or news. But I can leave a recording on the SSDs for...I don't know. No failures, I can't answer that question. The speed doesn't seem to vary no matter how full the SSD is, and you won't see any problems if you fill it up as you do when you fill up an HDD on a 24 or a Genie...I say that without actually filling up a 34 or a 54, I have done it twice on my 44 with no issues.

Be glad you had the intelligence to try the SSD and don't worry, you did the best thing you could have done for your 54. Enjoy and don't get caught up with crap from other sites, this is the place for the truth about all things D*. What are you using as an external device?

Rich


----------



## JcT21

im not using an external device..... i use it inside my 54-700. i have tried a few times to use the wd blue 1tb ssd but the 54-700 just wont have it. it goes to an endless reboot cycle. ive tried with a fresh format by fat, ntfs & deleted partitions without formatting after. the dvr will format the drive each time but thats as far as it goes. however other ssd's ive tested work just fine in the same genie. which include pny, msata drives in an adapter, adata, crucial, toshiba & transcend. the wd blue worked perfect in my 54-500 & no problems in my older 44-200.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> im not using an external device..... i use it inside my 54-700. i have tried a few times to use the wd blue 1tb ssd but the 54-700 just wont have it. it goes to an endless reboot cycle. ive tried with a fresh format by fat, ntfs & deleted partitions without formatting after. the dvr will format the drive each time but thats as far as it goes. however other ssd's ive tested work just fine in the same genie. which include pny, msata drives in an adapter, adata, crucial, toshiba & transcend. the wd blue worked perfect in my 54-500 & no problems in my older 44-200.


That might be your problem. Try this external device: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I use them on every HR and they work perfectly. I have a 54-700 with a Blue WD 2TB SSD in the external device and it works.
I don't want to go back thru that thread but there are reasons not to mount the SSDs internally. I hope you'll give the external I linked to above a try. If it doesn't work it's returnable. Nothing to lose, something to gain. 
I'm assuming the SSD you're having issues with is in good working order. They will fail, we just don't know when. Been almost 3 years now and no failures. I'd happily pay for new SSDs if they worked for 3 years. I just saw a problem, you wrote: _the DVR will format the drive each time. _That should not happen. Once you format a drive properly in an HR you shouldn't see a reformat unless you force one. Try the external device, you really shouldn't be mounting them internally. I'm going by what I've read, gotta trust someone.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

THANK YOU! for that link to the enclosure. i have it ordered and it will be here tuesday... gotta love free prime shipping  

amazon is my go to place for just about everything. as far as the dvr formatting the drive each time.... the reason it does that is because when i take the drive out of the dvr the only way im able to get any smart data from it is to have it formatted in ntfs. for whatever reason it wont show up in wd toolbox, even though it shows up in disk management. then if i try it again the genie formats it for its use. it all goes well until it gets to step 1 of 2 and then the reboot cycle starts. i have a brand new 2tb wd blue i just got in today from amazon. im gonna try that one internally so i can rule out if the 1tb ssd is bad somehow. my plan now is to put the 2tb in the enclosure and use it that way until it dies. 

question about using the external drives. if i get a new genie and place the external drive on the new one, will the genie have to go through the 24hr guide update again and re-download all the data since the ssd will have all that stuff on it anyway? that might be a stupid question but i am rather new to messing around with the dvr stuff.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> THANK YOU! for that link to the enclosure. i have it ordered and it will be here tuesday... gotta love free prime shipping
> 
> amazon is my go to place for just about everything. as far as the dvr formatting the drive each time.... the reason it does that is because when i take the drive out of the dvr the only way im able to get any smart data from it is to have it formatted in ntfs. for whatever reason it wont show up in wd toolbox, even though it shows up in disk management. then if i try it again the genie formats it for its use. it all goes well until it gets to step 1 of 2 and then the reboot cycle starts. i have a brand new 2tb wd blue i just got in today from amazon. im gonna try that one internally so i can rule out if the 1tb ssd is bad somehow. my plan now is to put the 2tb in the enclosure and use it that way until it dies.
> 
> question about using the external drives. if i get a new genie and place the external drive on the new one, will the genie have to go through the 24hr guide update again and re-download all the data since the ssd will have all that stuff on it anyway? that might be a stupid question but i am rather new to messing around with the dvr stuff.


I've been giving your problem some thought. Over the years people that use a drive in a computer and then use it in/on an HR have problems with that drive. I've read enough posts about that for it to stick in my mind. If your new 2TB drive works internally I'd suggest keeping it far away from a computer.

I'm not sure how to answer your question. I think the Guide data would have to reload. Not sure.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

JcT21 said:


> <-----
> question about using the external drives. if i get a new genie and place the external drive on the new one, will the genie have to go through the 24hr guide update again and re-download all the data since the ssd will have all that stuff on it anyway? that might be a stupid question but i am rather new to messing around with the dvr stuff.





Rich said:


> I've been giving your problem some thought. Over the years people that use a drive in a computer and then use it in/on an HR have problems with that drive. I've read enough posts about that for it to stick in my mind. If your new 2TB drive works internally I'd suggest keeping it far away from a computer.
> 
> I'm not sure how to answer your question. I think the Guide data would have to reload. Not sure.
> 
> Rich


I whole-heartedly agree with keeping a D* DVR drive away from a computer (at least anything Windows).

The exception of course is copying - discussed elsewhere - when booting with the proper OS.

As far as keeping all the guide data, yes it can be done on any D*DVR. I've done it many times. Not sure about being able to keep the guide data from a _different_ HR, though (haven't tried that yet). I'll usually do a double reboot when changing drives anyway, and start fresh.

Theoretically, at least your preferences and series manager would remain intact when putting the drive on a different HR. The only thing lost is the ability to play another HR's recordings (of course).

But for any "casual" restart, like if I'm changing coax cables on the system, or just need to clear a simple "bug" like CC corruption (or otherwise moving things around) I like to keep the guide _completely_ *intact*.

These days, almost _any_ single restart will typically clear at least the program guide while leaving the posters and other data in.

The trick is all in the restarting method (with what's usually called a "graceful" shutdown with a menu restart, followed by the _precise_ timing and pulling of the power plugs -- in the correct order.)

Doesn't work every time, but I'm getting better at it.


----------



## JcT21

i have never heard about using a drive previously in a pc causing dvr issues before. thats what i love about this forum, its a place to learn about new things. 

the 2tb brand new wd blue works just fine in my genie. im gonna keep it dvr only. im gonna use the other wd ssd in a usb enclosure as a portable drive for my many backups.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> i have never heard about using a drive previously in a pc causing dvr issues before. thats what i love about this forum, its a place to learn about new things.
> 
> the 2tb brand new wd blue works just fine in my genie. im gonna keep it dvr only. im gonna use the other wd ssd in a usb enclosure as a portable drive for my many backups.


I thought you would at least try the 1TB SSD in the new external device, I'd like to know if it worked.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

---



JcT21 said:


> i have never heard about *using a drive previously in a pc causing dvr issues* before. thats what i love about this forum, its a place to learn about new things.
> 
> the 2tb brand new wd blue works just fine in my genie. im gonna keep it dvr only. im gonna use the other wd ssd in a usb enclosure as a portable drive for my many backups.


To be clear, I don't think the exact issue is whether the drive had _ever_ been used with a PC.

Where you could have problems is taking the drive _from_ the D* DVR, connecting it to a PC and *then* putting it back on the DVR.

If you've got recordings on that drive you want to keep, they most likely will be lost when the DVR re-formats that drive after the PC had "done something to it" that the DVR "doesn't like."

In fact, I'll usually test my new drives with a PC first just to make sure that the drive and enclosure are working properly before using them on the DVR.

(The DVR will then format that drive and all is good.)


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> ---
> To be clear, I don't think the exact issue is whether the drive had _ever_ been used with a PC.
> 
> _*Where you could have problems is taking the drive from the D* DVR, connecting it to a PC and then putting it back on the DVR.*_
> 
> If you've got recordings on that drive you want to keep, they most likely will be lost when the DVR re-formats that drive after the PC had "done something to it" that the DVR "doesn't like."
> 
> In fact, I'll usually test my new drives with a PC first just to make sure that the drive and enclosure are working properly before using them on the DVR.
> 
> (The DVR will then format that drive and all is good.)


Yes, I think that is when the problems occur.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

Rich said:


> I thought you would at least try the 1TB SSD in the new external device, I'd like to know if it worked.
> 
> Rich


the external device arrived this afternoon. the 1tb drive don't work with the enclosure either. I'm thinking it has to be a firmware issue with the drive or something like that. it works just fine in a pc. and it worked previously in a 54-500 by humax i had a few months ago. I think this 700 is by pace. that's the name on the motherboard. I did upgrade the genie software to the x153c in hopes it might do something or fix an unknown issue that prevented the 1tb drive from working, but it didn't. glad the other ssd's work just fine with my genie. what i have now is the wd 2tb ssd set up with the enclosure. its been a few hours and so far its working great. thanks again for the suggestion & link. this makes switching drives much easier in the event i need to do that.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> the external device arrived this afternoon. the 1tb drive don't work with the enclosure either. I'm thinking it has to be a firmware issue with the drive or something like that. it works just fine in a pc. and it worked previously in a 54-500 by humax i had a few months ago. I think this 700 is by pace. that's the name on the motherboard. I did upgrade the genie software to the x153c in hopes it might do something or fix an unknown issue that prevented the 1tb drive from working, but it didn't. glad the other ssd's work just fine with my genie. what i have now is the wd 2tb ssd set up with the enclosure. its been a few hours and so far its working great. thanks again for the suggestion & link. this makes switching drives much easier in the event i need to do that.


The only thing I can think of is that's the SSD you put in a computer and reformatted it, right? Then it wouldn't format properly when used on the 54? Is that correct?

Rich


----------



## JcT21

Rich said:


> The only thing I can think of is that's the SSD you put in a computer and reformatted it, right? Then it wouldn't format properly when used on the 54? Is that correct?
> 
> Rich


the 54 would always format the ssd and go through the process but always end in a loop when getting to the step 1 of 2 of getting info from satellite. thats as far as that 1tb ssd will get. none of the others have that issue.

are different manufacturers of the genies required to use the same system firmware in regards to what drives are permitted? dont understand why it had no problems in a 44 or a 54 by humax but not a 54 by pace.


----------



## b4pjoe

Try hooking that SSD that won't work in the receiver to a Windows PC and use a free program called EASEUS Partition Master and delete all partitions from it and don't add any new partitions or format it and then try it again in the receiver and see if gets to step 2.


----------



## JcT21

b4pjoe said:


> Try hooking that SSD that won't work in the receiver to a Windows PC and use a free program called EASEUS Partition Master and delete all partitions from it and don't add any new partitions or format it and then try it again in the receiver and see if gets to step 2.


i did that in windows disk management in hopes it would work correctly once properly formatted by the dvr. but it didnt make any difference. still stuck at the same spot. at this point i dont really need it to work in my genie, its kinda bugging me why it wont. i downloaded the easeus partition master. i will try that one. it probably does the same thing but i will give it a try and see what happens.


----------



## b4pjoe

When Windows (and Macs) partitions a drive they create a small partition on it that the Windows Disk Management (or a Mac disk management) can't delete. The only way, FREE that is, I have found delete them is with EASEUS Partition Master. My thinking is once there are no partitions at all the DIRECTV receiver might finish with its partitioning and formatting. I could be wrong about it but I have had better luck with hard drives when I get all partitions deleted and start fresh.


----------



## P Smith

DVR's OS don't care about existing partitioning if it's not conforming to its own rules;
the "dance" above is purely personal and not required at all

The issue with the particular SSD and DVR must be reviewed professionally before to point to anything !


----------



## b4pjoe

P Smith said:


> DVR's OS don't care about existing partitioning if it's not conforming to its own rules;
> the "dance" above is purely personal and not required at all
> 
> The issue with the particular SSD and DVR must be reviewed professionally before to point to anything !


Current partitioning wasn't even a thing when these DVR's were manufactured. I don't claim to have inside knowledge on every electronic device made in the history of the world like you think you do but I know what I experience in everyday work and many times when a hard drive won't format or partition correctly I delete all partitions using EASEUS Partition Master and more often than not it makes it usable again. I even said it may not help in the case of his DVR but it doesn't cost a dime to try it. So go pound on a satellite dish with your hammer like you often recommend to others here to fine tune it.


----------



## P Smith

what is attitude you have?  ... public personal hate, tsk, tsk 

back to the topic:
- need to know what the model of SSD didn't "formatted" (hanging on boot stage 2 didn't tell that)
- what exactly DVR model with mfg info
- what FW version it run
- technical printout of partitions before and after failure of the DVR's format 

the info must be condensed in one post, not scattered or just reside in a memory of posters


----------



## b4pjoe

I'll bet you are a hoot at parties.


----------



## P Smith

lets stick with subj, please
[keep your personal 'wisdom' at PM]


----------



## b4pjoe

I was on subject until you interjected your personal wisdom.


----------



## P Smith

little bit of technical info would help to clear the issue


----------



## carl6

Okay guys, step back and take a breath please. Continued bickering can result in deletion of posts or more.
Thanks


----------



## jimmie57

Rich said:


> The only thing I can think of is that's the SSD you put in a computer and reformatted it, right? Then it wouldn't format properly when used on the 54? Is that correct?
> 
> Rich


Hey man,
the parts came in early. I just installed these.
SDOCKU33EBV StarTech
MZ-76E1T0E 1Terabyte EVO 860

I did like I had read it should be setup.
1. Unplug the Hr24
2. Assemble the dock, connect the esata cable on both ends, turn on the power of the dock.
3. Waited 2 minutes or more and plugged power back to the HR24.
Turned the TV and DVR to on. It was reloading the satellite info.
First thing I noticed is that the menu flies across the screen.
Next I checked my Series manager. All Series are gone ( I expected that ).
Then I checked the Favorites channels, Yep they are gone also. I rebuilt that easily.

Before installing this I was getting 3 of every 5 recordings that stalled in various places and various channels. I will have to wait to post what I get with recordings.

So far Holey Moley what a change.

Thanks Rich.

*Edit / Add:
*
I had a strange problem that maybe someone else had already.
My 30 second slip button was set for 30 skip. When I pressed the skip button it went into ff 2 or 3. I tried it several times and no change. The rewind slip / skip worked like it was supposed to do.
Then I tried changing the skip back to the original slip. Worked like a champ.
I played with it awhile and decided to put it back to skip mode and see if that problem came back. IT did NOT come back. 30 second skip forward works in a flash and now does not hang in ff mode.

I recorded several shows. Another problem I had with the old HD was that when I deleted a recording I had just watched I had to wait about 15-20 seconds to choose another program to run. This SSD takes about 3 seconds.


----------



## WestDC

jimmie57 said:


> Hey man,
> the parts came in early. I just installed these.
> SDOCKU33EBV StarTech
> MZ-76E1T0E 1Terabyte EVO 860
> 
> I did like I had read it should be setup.
> 1. Unplug the Hr24
> 2. Assemble the dock, connect the esata cable on both ends, turn on the power of the dock.
> 3. Waited 2 minutes or more and plugged power back to the HR24.
> Turned the TV and DVR to on. It was reloading the satellite info.
> First thing I noticed is that the menu flies across the screen.
> Next I checked my Series manager. All Series are gone ( I expected that ).
> Then I checked the Favorites channels, Yep they are gone also. I rebuilt that easily.
> 
> Before installing this I was getting 3 of every 5 recordings that stalled in various places and various channels. I will have to wait to post what I get with recordings.
> 
> So far Holey Moley what a change.
> 
> Thanks Rich.


Trying New things is what makes life worth living :thumbsup:


----------



## codespy

jimmie57 said:


> Hey man,
> the parts came in early. I just installed these.
> SDOCKU33EBV StarTech
> MZ-76E1T0E 1Terabyte EVO 860
> 
> I did like I had read it should be setup.
> 1. Unplug the Hr24
> 2. Assemble the dock, connect the esata cable on both ends, turn on the power of the dock.
> 3. Waited 2 minutes or more and plugged power back to the HR24.
> Turned the TV and DVR to on. It was reloading the satellite info.
> First thing I noticed is that the menu flies across the screen.
> Next I checked my Series manager. All Series are gone ( I expected that ).
> Then I checked the Favorites channels, Yep they are gone also. I rebuilt that easily.
> 
> Before installing this I was getting 3 of every 5 recordings that stalled in various places and various channels. I will have to wait to post what I get with recordings.
> 
> So far Holey Moley what a change.
> 
> Thanks Rich.


Yea- the SSD's run circles around the HDD's. You won't even have to press 'info' before changing channels anymore due to the improved responsiveness. God I hated doing that just to change channels properly.


----------



## Rich

jimmie57 said:


> Hey man,
> the parts came in early. I just installed these.
> SDOCKU33EBV StarTech
> MZ-76E1T0E 1Terabyte EVO 860
> 
> I did like I had read it should be setup.
> 1. Unplug the Hr24
> 2. Assemble the dock, connect the esata cable on both ends, turn on the power of the dock.
> 3. Waited 2 minutes or more and plugged power back to the HR24.
> Turned the TV and DVR to on. It was reloading the satellite info.
> First thing I noticed is that the menu flies across the screen.
> Next I checked my Series manager. All Series are gone ( I expected that ).
> Then I checked the Favorites channels, Yep they are gone also. I rebuilt that easily.
> 
> Before installing this I was getting 3 of every 5 recordings that stalled in various places and various channels. I will have to wait to post what I get with recordings.
> 
> So far Holey Moley what a change.
> 
> Thanks Rich.
> 
> *Edit / Add:
> *
> I had a strange problem that maybe someone else had already.
> My 30 second slip button was set for 30 skip. When I pressed the skip button it went into ff 2 or 3. I tried it several times and no change. The rewind slip / skip worked like it was supposed to do.
> Then I tried changing the skip back to the original slip. Worked like a champ.
> I played with it awhile and decided to put it back to skip mode and see if that problem came back. IT did NOT come back. 30 second skip forward works in a flash and now does not hang in ff mode.
> 
> I recorded several shows. Another problem I had with the old HD was that when I deleted a recording I had just watched I had to wait about 15-20 seconds to choose another program to run. This SSD takes about 3 seconds.


Rather unbelievable, isn't it? All those little problems are gone in a heartbeat. And all it cost was a few bucks and a few minutes of your time. I'm glad it worked well, Jimmie.

Rich


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Trying New things is what makes life worth living :thumbsup:


Having the nerve to try new things helps. Better than complaining about problems that D* is never gonna fix.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

the last spin drive i used was with windows vista. ive been using only ssd's in my computers since intel came out with the 80GB x-25m way back in 2008. that said, now that ive been tinkering/trying new things like using them in other devices, ill always use ssd's in my directv equipment as long as compatibility isnt an issue. its just so much better. im curious how the hopper3 behaves with a ssd. might be time to pay my sister a visit 

whenever i upgrade my customers computers with ssd's i just sit back and wait for the "wow, its like a brand new computer" .....it never fails.


----------



## P Smith

JcT21 said:


> i upgrade my customers computers with ssd's


if you will add cleaning the SSD (if you did full copy from HDD) from temp/history/etc files - you will surprise yourself too !


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> the last spin drive i used was with windows vista. ive been using only ssd's in my computers since intel came out with the 80GB x-25m way back in 2008. that said, now that ive been tinkering/trying new things like using them in other devices, ill always use ssd's in my directv equipment as long as compatibility isnt an issue. its just so much better. im curious how the hopper3 behaves with a ssd. might be time to pay my sister a visit
> 
> whenever i upgrade my customers computers with ssd's i just sit back and wait for the *"wow, its like a brand new computer"* .....it never fails.


Pretty much what I said almost three years ago. If I hadn't stuck that SSD in my 44 I would have left D* by now. I was so tired of audio drops and pixies all over the place. I had listened to all the BS the CSRs came out with and I so tired of watching D* content and wondering why my HRs couldn't pump out a picture that was as stable as what I see when I stream.

I started this thread with little hope on the fourteenth of August in 2018. I sit here today with five HRs, all of them have SSDs on them. The days of complaining about the stability of the HRs have passed, what I see today is stability that mirrors everything I see on my Apple TV boxes. No audio drops, no pixelation that isn't caused by rain fade. I have what I wanted.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

i just now got around to checking the smart data from the samsung 860 evo 1tb ssd. i checked the smart data a week in but i was curious how much data the genie was writing to the ssd over a typical tv viewing month so i could better get a feel of its lifespan. i have 2 clients with my 54. i recorded & deleted 17 HD shows and at least 2 receivers were being used for about 18hrs day for buffered playback as well as doubleplay (HD) to FF through commercials. 

some days tv was watched more than others but on average it looks like the genie was putting 203GB per day on the ssd. looks like a 600TBW rating ssd like my evo should last slightly over 8 years. 

the 2tb wd im currently using in my enclosure has a 700tbw. directv may not even be around when these things wear out. but i certainly hope it is.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> i just now got around to checking the smart data from the samsung 860 evo 1tb ssd. i checked the smart data a week in but i was curious how much data the genie was writing to the ssd over a typical tv viewing month so i could better get a feel of its lifespan. i have 2 clients with my 54. i recorded & deleted 17 HD shows and at least 2 receivers were being used for about 18hrs day for buffered playback as well as doubleplay (HD) to FF through commercials.
> 
> some days tv was watched more than others but on average it looks like the genie was putting 203GB per day on the ssd. looks like a 600TBW rating ssd like my evo should last slightly over 8 years.
> 
> the 2tb wd im currently using in my enclosure has a 700tbw. directv may not even be around when these things wear out. but i certainly hope it is.


8 years is more than I could have hoped for. Have any idea when or if we would see the SSDs begin to degrade? I think the HDDs begin to degrade after about three years of usage. Not fail, degrade.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

Rich said:


> 8 years is more than I could have hoped for. Have any idea when or if we would see the SSDs begin to degrade? I think the HDDs begin to degrade after about three years of usage. Not fail, degrade.
> 
> Rich


i read some reviews on toms hardware that many of the ssd's they tested began to show sings of degrading at a little more than half of their TB rating. the samsung drives in particular went past their expected rating.

ive been using ssd's in all my computers since 08. my first intel x-25m is still going. from my own experience i have not witnessed any degradation in performance. i have brands from crucial, samsung, toshiba, pny, wd, adata, kingston, transcend, ocz, & corsair. all being a mix of nvme & 2.5 sata. all are still working normally. the intel & crucial drives are my oldest. both are 2.5 sata drives and still have the same performance as they always did. the crucial is at 65% health but still kicking. smart data has never shown on my intel but its been used to death. im surprised it still works.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> i read some reviews on toms hardware that many of the ssd's they tested began to show sings of degrading at a little more than half of their TB rating. the samsung drives in particular went past their expected rating.
> 
> ive been using ssd's in all my computers since 08. my first intel x-25m is still going. from my own experience i have not witnessed any degradation in performance. i have brands from crucial, samsung, toshiba, pny, wd, adata, kingston, transcend, ocz, & corsair. all being a mix of nvme & 2.5 sata. all are still working normally. the intel & crucial drives are my oldest. both are 2.5 sata drives and still have the same performance as they always did. the crucial is at 65% health but still kicking. smart data has never shown on my intel but its been used to death. im surprised it still works.


I put my first SSD on my 44 almost 3 years ago. What I'd expect to see in a degraded drive is audio and video breakups. Not rain fade. I mean what we see in the degraded HDDs we have in the refurbs. That's what I'd expect, what do you think we'd see when an SSD becomes degraded in the context of D* DVRs?

Rich


----------



## JcT21

Rich said:


> I put my first SSD on my 44 almost 3 years ago. What I'd expect to see in a degraded drive is audio and video breakups. Not rain fade. I mean what we see in the degraded HDDs we have in the refurbs. That's what I'd expect, what do you think we'd see when an SSD becomes degraded in the context of D* DVRs?
> 
> Rich


good question. i would assume that we would see a lot of freezing, skipping, jerky graphics. pause not working and recordings only having bits and pieces of content.. i have seen failing ssd's report that all their space is filled up even though nothing to very little is on the drive. im fairly confident we might see a handful of recordings on the drive and the dvr showing 90% full.

speaking of ssd failures, about 430 this afternoon i went to turn on my tv and it was frozen at 2pm on the screen. i had to do a rbr to get it working again. i am using the new wd ssd. which has me concerned, because the 1tb wd didnt work. it may have something to do with the wd drive because my samsung evo didnt do that. perhaps the pace motherboard in my 54 just dont play well with western digital ssd's.

if it does it again im gonna put the samsung back in for a few days and see if it continues. hopefully it was just a fluke.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> good question. i would assume that we would see a lot of freezing, skipping, jerky graphics. pause not working and recordings only having bits and pieces of content.. i have seen failing ssd's report that all their space is filled up even though nothing to very little is on the drive. im fairly confident we might see a handful of recordings on the drive and the dvr showing 90% full.
> 
> speaking of ssd failures, about 430 this afternoon i went to turn on my tv and it was frozen at 2pm on the screen. i had to do a rbr to get it working again. i am using the new wd ssd. which has me concerned, because the 1tb wd didnt work. it may have something to do with the wd drive because my samsung evo didnt do that. perhaps the pace motherboard in my 54 just dont play well with western digital ssd's.
> 
> if it does it again im gonna put the samsung back in for a few days and see if it continues. hopefully it was just a fluke.


So, we can expect to see pretty much the same thing we see with HDDs that are degraded. Thanks.

About the freeze-up, I had that happen a few times with my "new" 54. It seems to have settled down. I didn't see any reason to think the Samsung Evo had anything to do with it.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

ive spent about 2hrs this morning troubleshooting. seems the new wd blue 2tb drive ive been using with the enclosure stopped working. it was frozen again this morning. when i did a rbr it stops at the step 1 of 2 screen and starts its reboot cycle over and over, same as the 1tb wd did before. i removed the drive from the enclosure and tried it internally & as expected i got the same result. moved them to my pc & both drives work perfectly in a windows 10 computer. no errors on either. 

i took both drives next door and tried them both with my neighbors hr44-500 and both the 1tb and the 2tb wd drives work perfectly in his genie. his motherboard is by humax, mine is pace. its got to be something with the pace board causing the incompatibility with the wd ssd drives. 

if anyone reading this wants to use an ssd in their genie, avoid wd blue ssd if you have a 54-700(pace) receiver. every other drive ive tried so far as worked just fine. 

im currently using a samsung 1tb evo. no problems. there it will stay until either it or my box dies


----------



## codespy

Interesting. Luckily I’m running a HR54-500 with 6TB WD Blue HDD’s inside and outside/esata. luckily no issues in over 4 years.


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Interesting. Luckily I'm running a HR54-500 with 6TB WD Blue HDD's inside and outside/esata. luckily no issues in over 4 years.


Here's something else that's rather interesting: I just looked at my "new HR54" and it's an HR44-500! I never checked when the installer gave it to me. I'm so thrilled...

Rich


----------



## Rich

Rich said:


> Here's something else that's rather interesting: I just looked at my "new HR54" and it's an HR44-500! I never checked when the installer gave it to me. I'm so thrilled...
> 
> Rich


Before anyone asks how stupid I was not to check, yes, indeed, that was stupid.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

Rich said:


> Here's something else that's rather interesting: I just looked at my "new HR54" and it's an HR44-500! I never checked when the installer gave it to me. I'm so thrilled...
> 
> Rich


you got a good one looks like. ive wondered if my box is somehow faulty. i always thought that even though dvr's are made by different companies, their firmware & components were supposed to be the same. the only differences ive noticed between various 44's & 54's are things like hard drive mounts, heatsinks, fan placement, etc. nothing that would prevent certain drives from working on one and not the other.

yesterday i thought about doing a protection plan replacement. but despite its wd ssd incompatibility, it is working exceptionally well with other drives both ssd and spin. as long as its doing this good, ill keep it till it dont. who knows, with my luck they'd probably send me another 700


----------



## WestDC

Rich said:


> Before anyone asks how stupid I was not to check, yes, indeed, that was stupid.
> 
> Rich


Perhaps the reason the installer handed it to you --was because you do not have D*TV 4K enabled on your account?


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> Here's something else that's rather interesting: I just looked at my "new HR54" and it's an HR44-500! I never checked when the installer gave it to me. I'm so thrilled...
> 
> Rich


Zoiks! There are physical differences between the 44 and 54, one small one being a phone jack. My 54 is definitely faster than my 44 was, even without using SSD's.


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Perhaps the reason the installer handed it to you --was because you do not have D*TV 4K enabled on your account?


He told me it was a 54. I even checked it to see if it had the SATA port.

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Zoiks! There are physical differences between the 44 and 54, one small one being a phone jack. My 54 is definitely faster than my 44 was, even without using SSD's.


I trusted an installer. I took his word as truth. I am dumb. I don't know what else to say.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

Rich said:


> Here's something else that's rather interesting: I just looked at my "new HR54" and it's an HR44-500! I never checked when the installer gave it to me. I'm so thrilled...
> 
> Rich


i read your post more than once. i even replied saying you got a good one. ( i prefer the 54-500) but i just now noticed you got a 44 instead. for some reason i was thinking you had one of those 54r1 models and you had just noticed you got a plain 54-500. i was researching the r1 models just a few minutes prior. shewww im losing it.... i need more coffee & a vacation. i swear im not crazy. a bit overworked maybe, but not crazy..... yet. 

when an installer come to swap out my 44 for a 54 it was one of those r1 models. i was kinda excited to get something different and newer. however it was full of dead roaches. and it stank to high heaven. took about an hour before i started smelling something and then narrowed it down. id hate to see the house it was pulled from. but i called him on the cell he provided but he said he couldn't swap it out. i called the retention line and ended up getting a new 54, the one i have now, ups over night. it was disgusting. i took pics but they said it wasn't necessary to send them. but yeah, we gotta watch the installers & the equipment we get. lesson learned for me.


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> i read your post more than once. i even replied saying you got a good one. ( i prefer the 54-500) but i just now noticed you got a 44 instead. for some reason i was thinking you had one of those 54r1 models and you had just noticed you got a plain 54-500. i was researching the r1 models just a few minutes prior. shewww im losing it.... i need more coffee & a vacation. i swear im not crazy. a bit overworked maybe, but not crazy..... yet.
> 
> when an installer come to swap out my 44 for a 54 it was one of those r1 models. i was kinda excited to get something different and newer. however it was full of dead roaches. and it stank to high heaven. took about an hour before i started smelling something and then narrowed it down. id hate to see the house it was pulled from. but i called him on the cell he provided but he said he couldn't swap it out. i called the retention line and ended up getting a new 54, the one i have now, ups over night. it was disgusting. i took pics but they said it wasn't necessary to send them. but yeah, we gotta watch the installers & the equipment we get. lesson learned for me.


Not believing CSRs and installers (not the installers here) is what I've preached for years, should have listened to myself. The 44 I have works, I would have rather had a 54...and I know how to get one but as long as this one works I'll keep it.

Rich


----------



## P Smith

JcT21 said:


> i took pics


post them here !


----------



## JcT21

P Smith said:


> post them here !


under the hard drive after i removed it. i started to just remove the motherboard as well and clean the whole thing but my wife had other plans...she had me place it in a garbage bag and put it on the porch till i got it to the ups store for return. no way she was having that in our house, cleaned or not. yeah, getting a next day replacement was the better option.


----------



## P Smith

disgusting !!!


----------



## James Long

Yep ... that certainly does not fit "vacuum out anything that does not belong".


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> I trusted an installer. I took his word as truth. I am dumb. I don't know what else to say.
> 
> Rich


Lol....too funny Rich. We're all guilty of that at one time or another in life! :handok:


----------



## Rich

James Long said:


> Yep ... that certainly does not fit "vacuum out anything that does not belong".


I've never seen any signs of the refurb boxes being opened. It seems like all they do is a full factory reset and send it back into the mix. The most serious problem we see with the refurbs is the internal drives. They never get changed out for new drives unless we do it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Lol....too funny Rich. We're all guilty of that at one time or another in life! :handok:


Happens too often to me. I should have checked the box but all I was worried about was the SATA port.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Well, it was a short-lived experience, but at last I've tried an SSD on the HR44.

The SSD - originally purchased for the 44 after this thread was started but never used - was on its way to my 3yr-old Laptop (as I _finally_ tired of the "rattletrap" HDD that it came with, and decided to"steal" that SSD away from the HR20 it was "temporarily" connected to.)

Got one of those clone thingies - posted in this forum IIRC, cloned the HR20's SSD to the "rattletrap" (after having first cloned the Laptop's rattletrap to the unused, empty 1TB HDD, that had originally come out of the HR44.)

Next, as an experiment and to try it out, connected the HR20 SSD to the HR44. Naturally, it got formatted - first point being that the HR2x and the HR44 data are incompatable. This was not really unexpected, but I don't recall for sure if any one had ever tried it before (maybe it would've worked _before_ the new UI?).

Didn't have a lot of time to try out the SSD with the 44 (maybe some other time) since there were SMs and other recordings needing to take place in the 44's internal, plus I _really_ wanted that SSD to go into the computer.

For that brief experience with the HR44, I was most impressed by the boot speed, and the fact that the logos and caption fonts were restored within about an hour. (On the HR20 the fonts took some days, and the channel logos took a couple months. Heck, I'm still waiting for them to return to the H25 - they've been missing for a month since its update!)

As for that rattletrap, it's "happily rattling" away in the Oyen enclosure connected to the HR20, with all of the 20's SSD data intact - including the guide (perfect shutdown)!

And the computer, it's a whole different machine (data successfully restored from the HR44's original drive). Definitely the better decision for now...


----------



## Rich

Delroy E Walleye said:


> Well, it was a short-lived experience, but at last I've tried an SSD on the HR44.
> 
> The SSD - originally purchased for the 44 after this thread was started but never used - was on its way to my 3yr-old Laptop (as I _finally_ tired of the "rattletrap" HDD that it came with, and decided to"steal" that SSD away from the HR20 it was "temporarily" connected to.)
> 
> Got one of those clone thingies - posted in this forum IIRC, cloned the HR20's SSD to the "rattletrap" (after having first cloned the Laptop's rattletrap to the unused, empty 1TB HDD, that had originally come out of the HR44.)
> 
> Next, as an experiment and to try it out, connected the HR20 SSD to the HR44. Naturally, it got formatted - first point being that the HR2x and the HR44 data are incompatable. This was not really unexpected, but I don't recall for sure if any one had ever tried it before (maybe it would've worked _before_ the new UI?).
> 
> Didn't have a lot of time to try out the SSD with the 44 (maybe some other time) since there were SMs and other recordings needing to take place in the 44's internal, plus I _really_ wanted that SSD to go into the computer.
> 
> For that brief experience with the HR44, I was most impressed by the boot speed, and the fact that the logos and caption fonts were restored within about an hour. (On the HR20 the fonts took some days, and the channel logos took a couple months. Heck, I'm still waiting for them to return to the H25 - they've been missing for a month since its update!)
> 
> As for that rattletrap, it's "happily rattling" away in the Oyen enclosure connected to the HR20, with all of the 20's SSD data intact - including the guide (perfect shutdown)!
> 
> And the computer, it's a whole different machine (data successfully restored from the HR44's original drive). Definitely the better decision for now...


Any drive that has been in a 24 will be formatted when used on a Genie. And, I believe, the same applies when taking a drive that has been used on a Genie and putting it on a 24.

Rich


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

Rich said:


> Any drive that has been in a 24 will be formatted when used on a Genie. And, I believe, the same applies when taking a drive that has been used on a Genie and putting it on a 24.
> 
> Rich


Makes sense.

I probably am thinking back to the _earlier_ days of genies, seeming to remember reading that there might've possibly been some usable compatibility - people wanting to keep their SMs, preferences, etc. when they "upgraded" their DVRs to a genie and already had a larger (or external) drive .

Maybe it was the 34 (which supposedly didn't get the new UI).

At any rate, I figured there was nothing to lose and possibly something to learn by experimenting/confirming.


----------



## P Smith

Delroy E Walleye said:


> possibly something to learn by experimenting/confirming


then I would make a research of partitioning the drives for both case and will post it here...


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

P Smith said:


> then I would make a research of partitioning the drives for both case and will post it here...


I would love to be able to do that. Unfortunately, I wasn't done with the content on the drives (except temporarily for the SSD, which I did actually look at the partitions of before cloning it over).

The other thing I thing I think I would need to do would be to find some non-destructive and more informative software to deal with those partitions.

The only thing I was able to do with the DVR's partitions within the "management" software of the PC was to confirm their existence. Deleting the partitions was the only non-greyed out option available.

The most useful function (in terms of DVR storage) would be expanding the storage partition of a cloned drive onto a larger one to utilize the full capacity (easy enough to do on another, more conventional drive that I had cloned for more storage in an old little A/V server).

Suffice to say, I'm very happy I didn't wait any longer to put the SSD into the PC.

The other research could still be accomplished with the other DVR drives, provided I could find the software and know how to use it.


----------



## codespy

1TB WD Blue SSD on sale again today only at BB-

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-blue-1tb-internal-sata-solid-state-drive/6025900.p?skuId=6025900


----------



## P Smith

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I could find the software and know how to use it.


Linux::fdisk for start


----------



## jimmie57

jimmie57 said:


> Hey man,
> the parts came in early. I just installed these.
> SDOCKU33EBV StarTech
> MZ-76E1T0E 1Terabyte EVO 860
> 
> I did like I had read it should be setup.
> 1. Unplug the Hr24
> 2. Assemble the dock, connect the esata cable on both ends, turn on the power of the dock.
> 3. Waited 2 minutes or more and plugged power back to the HR24.
> Turned the TV and DVR to on. It was reloading the satellite info.
> First thing I noticed is that the menu flies across the screen.
> Next I checked my Series manager. All Series are gone ( I expected that ).
> Then I checked the Favorites channels, Yep they are gone also. I rebuilt that easily.
> 
> Before installing this I was getting 3 of every 5 recordings that stalled in various places and various channels. I will have to wait to post what I get with recordings.
> 
> So far Holey Moley what a change.
> 
> Thanks Rich.
> 
> *Edit / Add:
> *
> I had a strange problem that maybe someone else had already.
> My 30 second slip button was set for 30 skip. When I pressed the skip button it went into ff 2 or 3. I tried it several times and no change. The rewind slip / skip worked like it was supposed to do.
> Then I tried changing the skip back to the original slip. Worked like a champ.
> I played with it awhile and decided to put it back to skip mode and see if that problem came back. IT did NOT come back. 30 second skip forward works in a flash and now does not hang in ff mode.
> 
> I recorded several shows. Another problem I had with the old HD was that when I deleted a recording I had just watched I had to wait about 15-20 seconds to choose another program to run. This SSD takes about 3 seconds.


Another plus from adding this SSD drive is that my HR24 has ran 113-115° internal ever since the day I installed it.
Now it runs 108°.
I am wondering if the internal drive no longer spins when an external drive is recognized ?
Or just the fact that it is no longer reading and writing all the time ?

So far I have recorded and played about 190 shows / programs / racing/ movies.
Outstanding difference.


----------



## P Smith

jimmie57 said:


> if the internal drive no longer spins when an external drive is recognized ?


still dissipate that energy what DVR spending for keep it spinning


----------



## troy33

Rich said:


> Pretty much what I said almost three years ago. If I hadn't stuck that SSD in my 44 I would have left D* by now. I was so tired of audio drops and pixies all over the place. I had listened to all the BS the CSRs came out with and I so tired of watching D* content and wondering why my HRs couldn't pump out a picture that was as stable as what I see when I stream.
> 
> I started this thread with little hope on the fourteenth of August in 2018. I sit here today with five HRs, all of them have SSDs on them. The days of complaining about the stability of the HRs have passed, what I see today is stability that mirrors everything I see on my Apple TV boxes. No audio drops, no pixelation that isn't caused by rain fade. I have what I wanted.
> 
> Rich


Rich, do you recommend a certain brand & size of ssd's? Hopefully updating to an HR54 soon "if I can get a CSR on the phone that will actually help and know's what they're talking about." Thanks for any advice, its appreciated!


----------



## Rich

troy33 said:


> Rich, do you recommend a certain brand & size of ssd's? Hopefully updating to an HR54 soon "if I can get a CSR on the phone that will actually help and know's what they're talking about." Thanks for any advice, its appreciated!


I use Crucial, WD Blue, and Samsung EVO SSDs. I have yet to see a difference in any of them. For a Genie, I'd suggest using at least a 2TB SSD. Here's a link to the external devices I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rich


----------



## Rich

I started this thread three years ago this month. I haven't had one SSD fail or give me any problems. I haven't seen one audio or video breakup that I could blame on the SSDs. Every HR I have has a bad HDD internally mounted. If D* is truly not activating 24s from this point on, the only thing we can do to keep them running is use SSDs externally. The SSDs aren't gonna fix every problem but they do fix most problems. I really believe the HRs would have been a lot better if they had used SSDs instead of HDDs in the first place.


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> I started this thread three years ago this month. I haven't had one SSD fail or give me any problems. I haven't seen one audio or video breakup that I could blame on the SSDs. Every HR I have has a bad HDD internally mounted. If D* is truly not activating 24s from this point on, the only thing we can do to keep them running is use SSDs externally. The SSDs aren't gonna fix every problem but they do fix most problems. I really believe the HRs would have been a lot better if they had used SSDs instead of HDDs in the first place.


The Western Digital Blue 500 GB SSD I put on an HR-24 three years started giving me a problem about a month ago. Frequent lockups/reboots. Sometimes rebooting to the old internal HDD. Replaced it today with a new 1 TB Crucial SSD and back to being good again.


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> I started this thread three years ago this month. I haven't had one SSD fail or give me any problems. I haven't seen one audio or video breakup that I could blame on the SSDs. Every HR I have has a bad HDD internally mounted. If D* is truly not activating 24s from this point on, the only thing we can do to keep them running is use SSDs externally. The SSDs aren't gonna fix every problem but they do fix most problems. I really believe the HRs would have been a lot better if they had used SSDs instead of HDDs in the first place.


SSDs of that size and longevity either did not exist at all or would have cost thousands of dollars when the HR24 was being manufactured. It was not an option.

There's no reason HDDs should have the problems you describe, since they work just fine in PCs without dropping data during reads despite much more demanding I/O than the pitiful 1-2 MB/sec the HR24 requires. There are undoubtedly other flaws in the HR24's design (probably weak CPU and/or too little RAM) that could have fixed the problem for a lot less money than replacing HDDs with SSDs.


----------



## codespy

Happy Anniversary Rich on the SSD thread! I couldn’t imagine life these days using HR2x IRD’s without SSD’s. The only one I don’t have one on is my HR54, which still has a 6TB drive on it and works perfectly.

I do have a problematic 1TB Samsung EVO SSD with my garage receiver- I had to reboot yesterday when the receiver wouldn’t turn on whether using remote or pressing power button manually. This typically occurs once every 3-4 weeks, but this time it was only two weeks then had to do the RBR to get things running again. The drive is a year old, and I only had to start rebooting once occasionally about 4 months ago. All of the other 1 TB SSD EVO’s, WD Greens and Blues that I have had no issues for over two years now. Still as speedy as ever!


----------



## P Smith

codespy said:


> The drive is a year old,


I would pull SMART from all the SSDs and compare the info to the suggested one


----------



## zcarguy

I have 500gb crucial ssd that I had installed in a hr21. That ird was nothing but trouble. The ssd would not connect properly for some reason. I retired that receiver and want to put that ssd in a esata dock with an hr24-500. Do I need to connect the drive to a pc and reformat it since its been connected to an hr before? if so what format is best? Thanks


----------



## WestDC

Rich said:


> I started this thread three years ago this month. I haven't had one SSD fail or give me any problems. I haven't seen one audio or video breakup that I could blame on the SSDs. Every HR I have has a bad HDD internally mounted.  If D* is truly not activating 24s from this point on, the only thing we can do to keep them running is use SSDs externally. The SSDs aren't gonna fix every problem but they do fix most problems. I really believe the HRs would have been a lot better if they had used SSDs instead of HDDs in the first place.


I would add --Replaced a 1TB HHD in my 11 year old win7 (now) win 10 dell laptop with a 1TB SSD --It works today just like in did in 2010 when I got it --Great upgrade as well for the DVR'S


----------



## ColdCase

Rich said:


> If D* is truly not activating 24s from this point on, the only thing we can do to keep them running is use SSDs externally.


I was able to easily pop off the HR24-500 cover and replace the internal HD with an SSD by following instructions posted here somewhere and a YouTube video.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

codespy said:


> <---
> I do have a problematic 1TB Samsung EVO SSD with my garage receiver- I had to reboot yesterday when the receiver wouldn't turn on whether using remote or pressing power button manually. This typically occurs once every 3-4 weeks, but this time it was only two weeks then had to do the RBR to get things running again. The drive is a year old, and I only had to start rebooting once occasionally about 4 months ago. All of the other 1 TB SSD EVO's, WD Greens and Blues that I have had no issues for over two years now. Still as speedy as ever!


Some HRs just plain don't "get along nicely" with SSDs more than a number of days at a stretch w/o regular restarts.

Full lockups can and do happen if "maintanance" restarts are not performed on a regular basis.

(Most times they'll reboot on their own if left alone, but I prefer to control the graceful, plug pull guide-preserving restarts.)

I'm down to about 5-6 days on the HR21 (500GB EVO).

It's never lost a speck of data, though, and been in service since December of 2018.

The HR20 I tried a 1TB EVO on didn't fare too many days better. Wound up cloning that one and swapping it with a modern Laptop that had a "rattletrap" HDD in it (with a very brief stint for the SSD on the HR44).

The PC application turned out to be the much better choice for that SSD than an HR.

That HDD worked for several months w/o problems (so there's no blaming the enclosure for the needing of restarts).

Helpful hint:

If you believe your HR "never" needs restarts with its SSD, try setting the panel lights brightness (or turn them all the way off) and see how long they stay that way.

If they ever come back on by themselves then that unit has been restarted. (Of course this would happen "naturally" with any firmware update.)

If you find your unit is restarting, I would recommend resetting the panel lights and keeping a log to get a feel for the frequency.

(I'd be willing to bet more folks' HRs are restarting by themselves w/o the users' awareness - and that's just fine, too, as long as there are no _other_ problems - like missed recordings.)


----------



## zcarguy

Running a 500gb crucial SSD internally on an HR24-500 for just over 24 hours. Internal temp seems stable at 91 degrees and everything is running snappy. Before I had an external 1tb hard drive an the temp ranged from 106 to 111.

While the temp seems very good, I have alwaya had the receiver raised a about 2 inches for better airflow. My concern now is it is quite warm on top and feels very hot on the bottom. I never noticed this before. The units is silent and I am thinking the fan never runs? Wondering if having a hd connected raises triggers the internal fan? Last thing I want is to damage the internals. Any insight would be appreciated.

UPDATE

Hours ago I put a small but strong desk fan pointed at the DVR. Now it is cool all around but system info still shows 91 degrees. I am, thinking the SSD runs cooler and reports a lower temp which in turn does not engage the internal fan... I saw others post that HR's with an SSD reboot. Could this be the reason? 
Thoughts?


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> The Western Digital Blue 500 GB SSD I put on an HR-24 three years started giving me a problem about a month ago. Frequent lockups/reboots. Sometimes rebooting to the old internal HDD. Replaced it today with a new 1 TB Crucial SSD and back to being good again.


Interesting. I have a couple of those Blue SSDs. I hope they last. I do have one Crucial. Did you know right away it was the SSD?

Rich


----------



## Rich

slice1900 said:


> SSDs of that size and longevity either did not exist at all or would have cost thousands of dollars when the HR24 was being manufactured. It was not an option.
> 
> There's no reason HDDs should have the problems you describe, since they work just fine in PCs without dropping data during reads despite much more demanding I/O than the pitiful 1-2 MB/sec the HR24 requires. There are undoubtedly other flaws in the HR24's design (probably weak CPU and/or too little RAM) that could have fixed the problem for a lot less money than replacing HDDs with SSDs.


I know they were too expensive at the time. I know it wasn't an option. It is now and they work a lot better with an SSD than they did with the HDDs. Of course, they'd work better with more RAM and a better processor.

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> Happy Anniversary Rich on the SSD thread! I couldn't imagine life these days using HR2x IRD's without SSD's. The only one I don't have one on is my HR54, which still has a 6TB drive on it and works perfectly.
> 
> I do have a problematic 1TB Samsung EVO SSD with my garage receiver- I had to reboot yesterday when the receiver wouldn't turn on whether using remote or pressing power button manually. This typically occurs once every 3-4 weeks, but this time it was only two weeks then had to do the RBR to get things running again. The drive is a year old, and I only had to start rebooting once occasionally about 4 months ago. All of the other 1 TB SSD EVO's, WD Greens and Blues that I have had no issues for over two years now. Still as speedy as ever!


You haven't swapped out that SSD? I had similar symptoms on my last 44-500 and replacing the box and using the same SSD worked, the reboots stopped. It might be the DVR itself.

Rich


----------



## Rich

zcarguy said:


> I have 500gb crucial ssd that I had installed in a hr21. That ird was nothing but trouble. The ssd would not connect properly for some reason. I retired that receiver and want to put that ssd in a esata dock with an hr24-500. Do I need to connect the drive to a pc and reformat it since its been connected to an hr before? if so what format is best? Thanks


No, the HR will format the SSD.

Rich


----------



## Rich

ColdCase said:


> I was able to easily pop off the HR24-500 cover and replace the internal HD with an SSD by following instructions posted here somewhere and a YouTube video.


If you read that thread there are comments about installing SSDs internally, negative comments. I read them and decided it was better to mount them externally. Better, and a whole lot simpler, I think.

Rich


----------



## Rich

zcarguy said:


> Running a 500gb crucial SSD internally on an HR24-500 for just over 24 hours. Internal temp seems stable at 91 degrees and everything is running snappy. Before I had an external 1tb hard drive an the temp ranged from 106 to 111.
> 
> While the temp seems very good, I have alwaya had the receiver raised a about 2 inches for better airflow. My concern now is it is quite warm on top and feels very hot on the bottom. I never noticed this before. The units is silent and I am thinking the fan never runs? Wondering if having a hd connected raises triggers the internal fan? Last thing I want is to damage the internals. Any insight would be appreciated.
> 
> UPDATE
> 
> Hours ago I put a small but strong desk fan pointed at the DVR. Now it is cool all around but system info still shows 91 degrees. I am, thinking the SSD runs cooler and reports a lower temp which in turn does not engage the internal fan... I saw others post that HR's with an SSD reboot. Could this be the reason?
> Thoughts?


You might have a fan that is not working. They suck air into the HRs, stick a tissue on an air intake, and see if the tissue gets sucked in.

Rich


----------



## codespy

Rich said:


> You haven't swapped out that SSD? I had similar symptoms on my last 44-500 and replacing the box and using the same SSD worked, the reboots stopped. It might be the DVR itself.
> 
> Rich


No, I have too many precious past recordings tied to that RID# across two drives (HDD and the SSD) that I don't want to lose. I could reboot on the stock internal HDD and go that route, but the remote response and navigation sucks. I only flip to that one when I need to view something from the past.

The other thing I might try is replacing that ThermalTake external dock. I have three brand new spares in my stockpile.


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> Interesting. I have a couple of those Blue SSDs. I hope they last. I do have one Crucial. Did you know right away it was the SSD?
> 
> Rich


No not right away. The DVR would just not respond to anything and eventually reboot itself and usually reboot to the internal hdd. When it would reboot back the original hdd it would be sluggish in the menus and guide and take a long time to change channels which is why I found this thread over 3 years ago and then put in an SSD. So when I unplug the DVR and external SSD and then start the SSD and let it spin up and then plugged the HR-24 back in so it would boot from the SSD it would be fine for a few hours to a few days and then it would start with the unresponsive bit again and finally reboot itself back to internal hdd. So I got the 1 TB crucial SSD and put it in the external case and it has been fine since then. No unresponsiveness or freeze ups or random reboots. Haven't hooked the old WD Blue SSD up to a pc yet to see if it will run there or not or to check the SMART data.


----------



## zcarguy

I tested the fan from the diagnostic menu and it passed. Was able to run the fan at any speed from within the diagnostic menu. Higher the speed the louder it sounded. Also when I reboot the receiver I hear the fan run briefly. 

I think the fan is controlled by the temp reported by the internal drive... I suspect the ssd does not report an accurate temp and thus the fan slows.

I am going to reconnect my original hd and see if the unit still gets hot.


----------



## P Smith

zcarguy said:


> I think the fan is controlled by the temp reported by the internal drive..


Look closely to main PCB, if you should see small chip LM75, then it's the termosensor;
SSD/HDD would be secondary source of internal temperature.


----------



## Rich

b4pjoe said:


> No not right away. The DVR would just not respond to anything and eventually reboot itself and usually reboot to the internal hdd. When it would reboot back the original hdd it would be sluggish in the menus and guide and take a long time to change channels which is why I found this thread over 3 years ago and then put in an SSD. So when I unplug the DVR and external SSD and then start the SSD and let it spin up and then plugged the HR-24 back in so it would boot from the SSD it would be fine for a few hours to a few days and then it would start with the unresponsive bit again and finally reboot itself back to internal hdd. So I got the 1 TB crucial SSD and put it in the external case and it has been fine since then. No unresponsiveness or freeze ups or random reboots. Haven't hooked the old WD Blue SSD up to a pc yet to see if it will run there or not or to check the SMART data.


The "reboot back to the original HDD" is interesting. What kind of external device are you using? I've had a lot of bad external HDDs but I've never seen one do that. I just got a 44-500 replaced, that DVR was doing some of the things you mention. Wouldn't accept remote commands, kept rebooting randomly, became unresponsive and had to be rebooted, rebooted during reboots (the first time I saw that). The 44-700 it replaced also kept rebooting randomly. I never thought the SSD was the cause. The 44-200 I have now has the same SSD the two bad Genies had and it seems to be working correctly so far. I've only had it a week or so, I'll have to keep an eye on it, the 44-200, I mean.

Rich


----------



## WestDC

The 200's are most stable(not that can not have issue's) --the Hr 24 100 and 500 are suspect the hr44 500 & 700 have problems as well just different makes that have the most issue's-not all Receivers are the same


----------



## Rich

zcarguy said:


> I tested the fan from the diagnostic menu and it passed. Was able to run the fan at any speed from within the diagnostic menu. Higher the speed the louder it sounded. Also when I reboot the receiver I hear the fan run briefly.
> 
> I think the fan is controlled by the temp reported by the internal drive... I suspect the ssd does not report an accurate temp and thus the fan slows.
> 
> I am going to reconnect my original hd and see if the unit still gets hot.


Keep doing what you're doing. Hands and eyes on equipment make for good troubleshooting, it's a lot harder for us to come up with an answer. I've never had a bad fan, but others have. I'm not sure if the fans run constantly or stop and start as the temps vary. I think they run constantly. And if the fans were controlled by the internal drives...that doesn't make sense to me. The internal drives just spin when you have an external drive on an HR, there's no load on them. There's a heat sensor on the motherboard someplace, I think. Hell, I've run a lot of HRs without internal drives and I've never had a heating problem that I didn't deliberately stage myself just to see what would happen.

With that in mind, have you seen a blue (IIRC) screen pop up and tell you the DVR is overheating? We were arguing about the heat and HRs some years ago and I took out internal drives to see what would happen and nothing happened, the external drives worked perfectly without internal drives. The DVRs did not heat up catastrophically. At that time I did unplug a few fans to see what would happen and the HRs all overheated and that blue screen came up and told me the DVR was too hot and was shutting down.

Rich


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> The 200's are most stable(not that can not have issue's) --the Hr 24 100 and 500 are suspect the hr44 500 & 700 have problems as well just different makes that have the most issue's-not all Receivers are the same


I've always liked the 24-200s, they seemed a bit better than the other models. I did have problems with some of them, probably related to the old HDDs in them. So far, the 44-200 seems pretty stable, I've had no issues.

200s are made by Samsung, is that right?

Rich


----------



## MysteryMan

Rich said:


> 200s are made by Samsung, is that right?


That is correct.


----------



## b4pjoe

Rich said:


> The "reboot back to the original HDD" is interesting. *What kind of external device are you using?* I've had a lot of bad external HDDs but I've never seen one do that. I just got a 44-500 replaced, that DVR was doing some of the things you mention. Wouldn't accept remote commands, kept rebooting randomly, became unresponsive and had to be rebooted, rebooted during reboots (the first time I saw that). The 44-700 it replaced also kept rebooting randomly. I never thought the SSD was the cause. The 44-200 I have now has the same SSD the two bad Genies had and it seems to be working correctly so far. I've only had it a week or so, I'll have to keep an eye on it, the 44-200, I mean.
> 
> Rich


Vantec 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s to USB 3.0/eSATA HDD Enclosure (NST-366SU3-BK) , Black

Pretty sure it isn't the external device as it has been working fine for the last week with the Crucial SSD in it.


----------



## JcT21

i love this thread. extremely useful info here!

im all for using ssd's. havent used a regular hdd in forever. as discussed earlier in this thread i use a samsung 1tb evo in my 54-700. for a couple days ive been having sluggish behavior when FF, RW, pressing menu sometimes hangs or takes longer than normal to populate info, guide scrolling is jerky at times. 

rbr doesnt seem to fix it. this just so happens to be around the time i got the 0x159a software. anyone else have that version software experiencing similar issues? ive pulled the ssd a few times and smart data says im putting about 3,200GB of data per month on the ssd. showing 97% life remaining. which still gives it a total life expectancy of nearly 13 years if nothing fails. ive always been a fan of wd drives but the blue's just wont work with my unit. pace motherboard. 

before i change the drive out i plan on grabbing the next software update or reverting to the NR to see if it fixes those problems. if not, im going with one of my crucial drives.


----------



## WestDC

JcT21 said:


> i love this thread. extremely useful info here!
> 
> im all for using ssd's. havent used a regular hdd in forever. as discussed earlier in this thread i use a samsung 1tb evo in my 54-700. for a couple days ive been having sluggish behavior when FF, RW, pressing menu sometimes hangs or takes longer than normal to populate info, guide scrolling is jerky at times.
> 
> rbr doesnt seem to fix it. this just so happens to be around the time i got the 0x159a software. anyone else have that version software experiencing similar issues? ive pulled the ssd a few times and smart data says im putting about 3,200GB of data per month on the ssd. showing 97% life remaining. which still gives it a total life expectancy of nearly 13 years if nothing fails. ive always been a fan of wd drives but the blue's just wont work with my unit. pace motherboard.
> 
> before i change the drive out i plan on grabbing the next software update or reverting to the NR to see if it fixes those problems. if not, im going with one of my crucial drives.


Try using your remote on the genie --Menu-Search-(type) CLEARMY BOX --search --then search all --your receiver will reboot and reload the software plugin that may be corrupt. 
see if that changes anything first


----------



## JcT21

WestDC said:


> Try using your remote on the genie --Menu-Search-(type) CLEARMY BOX --search --then search all --your receiver will reboot and reload the software plugin that may be corrupt.
> see if that changes anything first


i done the clearmybox a few minutes ago. the dvr rebooted itself for the pandora & other apps. right now the menu is still sluggish and slow to respond. ill give the guide & other info time to populate overnight and see how it does tomorrow.


----------



## WestDC

JcT21 said:


> i done the clearmybox a few minutes ago. the dvr rebooted itself for the pandora & other apps. right now the menu is still sluggish and slow to respond. ill give the guide & other info time to populate overnight and see how it does tomorrow.


Yee- I left out the part it will take 24 to 48 hours for the Guide & vod to populate complete --sorry about that


----------



## nowandthen

I added a 1TB SSD (Samsung) on or about June 2, 2020. Before that, my HR24/500 was getting very sluggish with regard to remote input.
After adding the SSD, response was snappy.
But, over the last couple of months, the progress bar is slow to come up. When i press FF, the box will usually go into FF mode, but the progress bar does not display for several seconds, meaning I have no control over the box until the progress bar shows up.
I have done CLEARMYBOX several times, but the behavior does not improve.
Restarting the box runs a restart loop several times, but it does eventually start up. This is after Reset, Restart Receiver.
Any other things I can try to restore the responsiveness? Thanks in advance.

By the way, this box rarely records content, so there's not recorded content on the box, in case that matters.


----------



## JcT21

nowandthen said:


> I added a 1TB SSD (Samsung) on or about June 2, 2020. Before that, my HR24/500 was getting very sluggish with regard to remote input.
> After adding the SSD, response was snappy.
> But, over the last couple of months, the progress bar is slow to come up. When i press FF, the box will usually go into FF mode, but the progress bar does not display for several seconds, meaning I have no control over the box until the progress bar shows up.
> I have done CLEARMYBOX several times, but the behavior does not improve.
> Restarting the box runs a restart loop several times, but it does eventually start up. This is after Reset, Restart Receiver.
> Any other things I can try to restore the responsiveness? Thanks in advance.
> 
> By the way, this box rarely records content, so there's not recorded content on the box, in case that matters.


i think some models with particular brand motherboards dont like certain ssd's. i had the same reboot cycle and suggishness with my wd blue ssd. my genie made by pace just wasnt gonna have it. i would suggest changing your ssd brand and see what happens.

for several months now my 1tb samsung had been perfection. now my samsung is donig the same thing you describe. clearmybox didnt help me either. im gonna give it till tomorrow and if nothing changes im gonna try another brand drive. perhaps the samsung ssds dont like dvr life.

seems rich has had good luck with crucial drives. thats gonna be my next one if i have to change.


----------



## nowandthen

JcT21 said:


> i think some models with particular brand motherboards dont like certain ssd's. i had the same reboot cycle and suggishness with my wd blue ssd. my genie made by pace just wasnt gonna have it. i would suggest changing your ssd brand and see what happens.
> 
> for several months now my 1tb samsung had been perfection. now my samsung is donig the same thing you describe. clearmybox didnt help me either. im gonna give it till tomorrow and if nothing changes im gonna try another brand drive. perhaps the samsung ssds dont like dvr life.
> 
> seems rich has had good luck with crucial drives. thats gonna be my next one if i have to change.


Thanks.

I have another Samsung 1TB SSD on the shelf in case my other HR24 started acting up. I may replace the current SSD with that one to see if the DVR "behaves" again. The current SSD worked well for 10 months or so. It soesn't show any issues other than slow progress bar response and restart loops.
Your point on the Samsung SSD is taken and I intend to order a Crucial SSD if for no other reason, than to have on hand.

Again thanks!


----------



## ColdCase

I've noticed sluggishness in general in all three of my DVRs, some HDs and some SSD... was assuming a DTV software thing, or ad thing, or signal issue. Just saying that if sluggish is a thing you noticed over the previous couple weeks, it may not be the DVR hardware itself.


----------



## P Smith

ColdCase said:


> it may not be the DVR hardware itself.


Don't forget DVR's OS using the drive for store many DBs contain [SI] SystemInfo tables, what are often updating from sat.


----------



## Rich

nowandthen said:


> I added a 1TB SSD (Samsung) on or about June 2, 2020. Before that, my HR24/500 was getting very sluggish with regard to remote input.
> After adding the SSD, response was snappy.
> But, over the last couple of months, the progress bar is slow to come up. When i press FF, the box will usually go into FF mode, but the progress bar does not display for several seconds, meaning I have no control over the box until the progress bar shows up.
> I have done CLEARMYBOX several times, but the behavior does not improve.
> Restarting the box runs a restart loop several times, but it does eventually start up. This is after Reset, Restart Receiver.
> Any other things I can try to restore the responsiveness? Thanks in advance.
> 
> By the way, this box rarely records content, so there's not recorded content on the box, in case that matters.


Unfortunately, even the SSDs can't stop the 24s from slowing down some remote commands, and the way the menus come up. I've seen this happen with every 24 I've put an SSD on. What you wrote about the 24 rebooting makes me think you have a problem that's not caused by the SSD. I had an HR44-700 that rebooted randomly and I had it replaced. I got a 44-500 and put the same SSD on it. After a week or so it started rebooting randomly and actually rebooted while rebooting a few times. I had that replaced with a 44-200 and that's been working properly with the same SSD. If you're seeing a box reboot for no good reason you might want to try replacing the HR. Or, you might wait for the next update, updates cure symptoms like these sometimes.

Rich


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> i love this thread. extremely useful info here!
> 
> im all for using ssd's. havent used a regular hdd in forever. as discussed earlier in this thread i use a samsung 1tb evo in my 54-700. for a couple days ive been having sluggish behavior when FF, RW, pressing menu sometimes hangs or takes longer than normal to populate info, guide scrolling is jerky at times.
> 
> rbr doesnt seem to fix it. this just so happens to be around the time i got the 0x159a software. anyone else have that version software experiencing similar issues? ive pulled the ssd a few times and smart data says im putting about 3,200GB of data per month on the ssd. showing 97% life remaining. which still gives it a total life expectancy of nearly 13 years if nothing fails. ive always been a fan of wd drives but the blue's just wont work with my unit. pace motherboard.
> 
> before i change the drive out i plan on grabbing the next software update or reverting to the NR to see if it fixes those problems. if not, im going with one of my crucial drives.


Updates can cause problems. Rebooting doesn't cure everything. I don't know if either of the two Genies I've recently swapped out for refurbs had just received updates but I didn't think the SSD was the problem at the time and I'm still using the same SSD on the Genie I have now and the Genie appears to be running properly. CLEARMYBOX is a valuable tool but it's not gonna fix everything and I've never seen it stop random reboots.

I've had 24s that became sluggish and stopped responding to remote commands, the SSDs on those 24s were not the problem. I had the boxes replaced, and those boxes have the same SSDs the bad units had and they work properly. You said you checked the SSD and found nothing wrong, could it be the 54 itself?

Rich


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> i think some models with particular brand motherboards dont like certain ssd's. i had the same reboot cycle and suggishness with my wd blue ssd. my genie made by pace just wasnt gonna have it. i would suggest changing your ssd brand and see what happens.


There is a post in this thread that is similar, one SSD wouldn't work well but a different SSD did work in the box. I don't remember the particulars but it stuck in my mind.

Rich


----------



## JcT21

around 330am this morning i grabbed the software 154f. it appears to be a step up from 159a. not sure whats going on with their software numbering because i always thought the version numbers were always higher than the ones they replace, not lower. but so far it seems to have fixed the issues i was having with sluggishness, FF, RW, menu population/remote responses, which i thought couldve been my ssd trying to fail. hope this is a real fix and those issues dont creep back up in the coming days. we shall see...


----------



## P Smith

JcT21 said:


> not sure whats going on with their software numbering


first I would check if it's CE version, perhaps it's NR
or you did run previous as CE and got NR


----------



## compnurd

JcT21 said:


> around 330am this morning i grabbed the software 154f. it appears to be a step up from 159a. not sure whats going on with their software numbering because i always thought the version numbers were always higher than the ones they replace, not lower. but so far it seems to have fixed the issues i was having with sluggishness, FF, RW, menu population/remote responses, which i thought couldve been my ssd trying to fail. hope this is a real fix and those issues dont creep back up in the coming days. we shall see...


The Numbering is in Hex 154F is several versions down from 159A.. 1550 is the current NR..


----------



## JcT21

P Smith said:


> first I would check if it's CE version, perhaps it's NR
> or you did run previous as CE and got NR


beta ce's are only for download fri-sat night correct? if so, i havent did one of those in a long time. if i do manually upgrade the software its always between 6-7am just before it changes over to the NR stream. i do know i havent been on a NR in ages. for the most part i havent had much trouble with the newer software versions except the 159a. prior to the 159a that gave me issues i had the 1598 version.


----------



## JcT21

compnurd said:


> The Numbering is in Hex 154F is several versions down from 159A.. 1550 is the current NR..


thats what had me confused. according to redh this morning the 154f was listed as new and in red. then at 7am it changed to the 1550 nr. i thought it was weird that redh listed 159a as a update to my previous 1598 and now 154f was supposed to be newer than 159a and 1550. even though its lower numbers. maybe im misunderstanding something..... ? quite likely i am


----------



## compnurd

JcT21 said:


> thats what had me confused. according to redh this morning the 154f was listed as new and in red. then at 7am it changed to the 1550 nr. i thought it was weird that redh listed 159a as a update to my previous 1598 and now 154f was supposed to be newer than 159a and 1550. even though its lower numbers. maybe im misunderstanding something..... ? quite likely i am


Just because it is in stream doesnt mean it is new... They use that time to either push software to everyone or to specific people for testing


----------



## JcT21

compnurd said:


> Just because it is in stream doesnt mean it is new... They use that time to either push software to everyone or to specific people for testing


thank you for that info. i was under the impression that once that early morning version was replaced with another, that new one was an update. ill pay better attention next time to the version numbers. thanks for the clarification 

but anyway, it did appear to fix my dvr performance issues. so thats a good thing.


----------



## James Long

Always be aware that the CE versions (not the national release pushed to receivers) are for testing as part of the CE program. Use at your own risk. Functionality and content can be lost at any time.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

0x154f was pushed to the HR44 here early yesterday morning. Arrived all by itself.

(I'd noticed last night that it'd been restarted but didn't think to check the software until reading here just now.)


----------



## P Smith

JcT21 said:


> thats what had me confused. according to redh this morning the 154f was listed as new and in red


the site does not analyzing a code in FW for new or old content; it's purely noted _versions_number_ changes


----------



## OLEDFAN

long time lurker, first time post. i have been using a solid state drives with my directv dvr for a while. i have an HR44 its about 8 years old. i own the box. i removed the dead internal drive and replaced it with a crucial bx500 1tb about 2 years ago. the ssd gradually got slower and slower. like some of you mentioned i noticed the sluggish resposne times. i replaced that drive with a brand new seagate 7200 2tb hdd. ill be the first to tell you i was suprised when it was actually equal to, if not snappier with the 7200 than it was the bx500 ssd. 

granted the bx500 is a budget drive and endurance ratings arent as high as some premium ones. other than noise and heat issues i cant see a real performance benefit to using solid states in a genie. im sure this new hdd will degrade over time, but the ssd's do also. right now my 44 has nearly instant repsone time to remote commands and menu displays. 

im not against using solid state drives, but i just cant see using them for better performance, especially if the ssd will be filled up over 70% full. i dont think ssd's can handle constant data reads and writes the dvr pounds it with constantly. i think thats what leads to the sluggishness mentioned above.


----------



## Rich

OLEDFAN said:


> long time lurker, first time post. i have been using a solid state drives with my directv dvr for a while. i have an HR44 its about 8 years old. i own the box. i removed the dead internal drive and replaced it with a crucial bx500 1tb about 2 years ago. the ssd gradually got slower and slower. like some of you mentioned i noticed the sluggish resposne times. i replaced that drive with a brand new seagate 7200 2tb hdd. ill be the first to tell you i was suprised when it was actually equal to, if not snappier with the 7200 than it was the bx500 ssd.
> 
> granted the bx500 is a budget drive and endurance ratings arent as high as some premium ones. other than noise and heat issues i cant see a real performance benefit to using solid states in a genie. im sure this new hdd will degrade over time, but the ssd's do also. right now my 44 has nearly instant repsone time to remote commands and menu displays.
> 
> im not against using solid state drives, but i just cant see using them for better performance, especially if the ssd will be filled up over 70% full. i dont think ssd's can handle constant data reads and writes the dvr pounds it with constantly. i think thats what leads to the sluggishness mentioned above.


I see the sluggishness too. I used to think the HDDs degraded as they do because we fill our HDDs up and I don't think that's the only thing that makes the HRs sluggish. I don't keep anything on my DVRs, all I record are the Yankee games and Jeopardy (to make sure I know if any of my HRs have crashed I record Jeopardy on all the HRs). All my 24s could be called sluggish compared to how they acted initially with the SSDs. All I see on my List is a few recordings and I have terabytes of capacity. I have no doubt that filling up an HDD and running it constantly in that manner will screw up the HDD, I've seen that happen too many times but it's not the only reason they slow down.

We know and we've said it here, if you stick a brand new HDD in an HR you will/might see what you saw, a snappy DVR. I have filled SSDs up completely and had no issues. I didn't run them for an extended period of time but I know what happens when you fill up an HDD on a 24 and the SSDs had no issues. I don't agree with you about that percentage but as I said I didn't run the SSDs full for long.

I've had some SSDs in my DVRs for over 3 years and the 24s have slowed down a bit but not as much as an HDD will over that period of time. I don't agree with you about performance either. Based on experience alone.

Rich


----------



## OLEDFAN

as far as the 70% number, that comes from a reddit tivo thread discussing ssd's. not a HR but some users say filling up their drive to near capacity gave them issues. i have no experience with a tivo at all, i just assumed the dvr's work generally the same sort of way. perhaps not? 

not sure how long the snappiness will last. i never filled up my ssd to even half. i usually delete soon as i watch. mostly programs record and stay on there through the week and i spend weekends catching up. 

ive read that a ssd needs trim. my pc does that but is it not required for the ssd in a genie? is the operating system on a genie linux based? ive never used linux excpet a knoppix distro back around 2010. that lasted for about 5 mintues. 

not sure what to make of the performance gain i got from the new hdd. i was not expecting it. maybe the gradual sluggishness over time tricked me and i just got used to it being that way. but even today the ssd has a 512/498 r/w speed with 54% life remaining. and the hdd has 209/206 r/w according to crystal disk mark. yet the hdd seems a lot faster in my genie. i could compare this new hdd with a new ssd. i have one coming in from amazon for my new pc. i think an experiment is in order. curiostiy is getting the best of me now 

fwiw, i have noticed the temp was a steady 102 with my ssd and now its up to 108. i guess that is to be expected. i was expecting more though. that hdd is rather warm.


----------



## OLEDFAN

Rich said:


> I see the sluggishness too. I used to think the HDDs degraded as they do because we fill our HDDs up and I don't think that's the only thing that makes the HRs sluggish. I don't keep anything on my DVRs, all I record are the Yankee games and Jeopardy (to make sure I know if any of my HRs have crashed I record Jeopardy on all the HRs). All my 24s could be called sluggish compared to how they acted initially with the SSDs. All I see on my List is a few recordings and I have terabytes of capacity. I have no doubt that filling up an HDD and running it constantly in that manner will screw up the HDD, I've seen that happen too many times but it's not the only reason they slow down.
> 
> We know and we've said it here, if you stick a brand new HDD in an HR you will/might see what you saw, a snappy DVR. I have filled SSDs up completely and had no issues. I didn't run them for an extended period of time but I know what happens when you fill up an HDD on a 24 and the SSDs had no issues. I don't agree with you about that percentage but as I said I didn't run the SSDs full for long.
> 
> I've had some SSDs in my DVRs for over 3 years and the 24s have slowed down a bit but not as much as an HDD will over that period of time. I don't agree with you about performance either. Based on experience alone.
> 
> Rich


do you notice if the sluggishness is worse after the dvr has been on for a few hours or does that make a difference? with mine, it was acceptable when it was first turned on but throughout the day it got worse, much worse. constant activity killing it maybe?


----------



## P Smith

OLEDFAN said:


> i replaced that drive with a brand new seagate 7200 2tb hdd.


If someone going to [dis] prove the effect of SSD vs HDD counting 70+% of using, then I would not just install new drive, but would make direct copy of a content of old drive (we have dedicated thread how-to here)


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## Rich

OLEDFAN said:


> as far as the 70% number, that comes from a reddit tivo thread discussing ssd's. not a HR but some users say filling up their drive to near capacity gave them issues. i have no experience with a tivo at all, i just assumed the dvr's work generally the same sort of way. perhaps not?
> 
> not sure how long the snappiness will last. i never filled up my ssd to even half. i usually delete soon as i watch. mostly programs record and stay on there through the week and i spend weekends catching up.
> 
> ive read that a ssd needs trim. my pc does that but is it not required for the ssd in a genie? is the operating system on a genie linux based? ive never used linux excpet a knoppix distro back around 2010. that lasted for about 5 mintues.
> 
> not sure what to make of the performance gain i got from the new hdd. i was not expecting it. maybe the gradual sluggishness over time tricked me and i just got used to it being that way. but even today the ssd has a 512/498 r/w speed with 54% life remaining. and the hdd has 209/206 r/w according to crystal disk mark. yet the hdd seems a lot faster in my genie. i could compare this new hdd with a new ssd. i have one coming in from amazon for my new pc. i think an experiment is in order. curiostiy is getting the best of me now
> 
> fwiw, i have noticed the temp was a steady 102 with my ssd and now its up to 108. i guess that is to be expected. i was expecting more though. that hdd is rather warm.


The capacity problems the HDDs have are not apparent on the SSDs I use. I did put a 3TB HDD on the first 44 I had and it worked well for a while but it became problematic as time passed. The damn things go bad so slowly that we don't realize the degradation is happening until the DVRs become unwatchable. All five of my HRs have HDDs in them that are shot. I'm still not sure why the degradation occurs, I thought filling up the HDDs caused it but I have HRs that were never used all that much and they are in the same condition as HRs that are constantly in use. My son uses one of them and if he records ten programs a year I'd be surprised. His 24-100 is the worst DVR we have if we try to use it without its SSD.

I think what you saw when you put a brand new HDD on that DVR was what I'd expect you'd see. Would it have been as snappy if you would have put a brand new SSD on it? From reading what others have written, I'd expect the performance to be about the same with new HDDs and new SSDs. I have never tried to compare new HDDs and new SSDs. The big difference will be seen over time. I think, based on experience, if you get more than three years out of an HDD mounted in or on an HR you're lucky. I'd expect an HDD that long in use to be problematic to some degree. I have SSDs that have been used for 3 years, I see no problems in them.

Rich


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## Rich

OLEDFAN said:


> do you notice if the sluggishness is worse after the dvr has been on for a few hours or does that make a difference? with mine, it was acceptable when it was first turned on but throughout the day it got worse, much worse. constant activity killing it maybe?


The sluggishness I see is apparent in the Guide and Menus, I don't see any problems with trick-play or the stability of the picture. I watch baseball games that last for hours and hours, I see no degradation at all when doing that. Where are you seeing that sluggishness? I've compared watching D* content with a DVR with an SSD in it to watching NetFlix on an Apple TV box as far stability goes and I see little difference. No audio or video breakups, those are apparent when you have a DVR with an older HDD in it.

Rich


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## OLEDFAN

finally got around to tinkering with the hdd and ssd in my genie. i used an adata 1tb su800 ssd. i chose that one because it has a high tbw endurance rating. when doing a rbr the ssd did boot up faster. as far as everything else, it was just as snappy. i think the ssd just barely did a little better when i made my favorite channel list and checked the boxes as it auto scrolled. that part was smooth and not as jerky. having scrolling effects turned off helps a lot. i couldn't tell any difference in menu response time and population time over the hdd. the guide did scroll smoother with the ssd.

im gonna leave this ssd in my dvr. regardless of the smart data, i think the old ssd i used before was reaching the end of its life, and that was causing the issues... and it had small, less than half the tbw rating than the su800 i have in it now. even though at the moment it doesn't provide much of a performance boost, it does cut down on noise and heat. that alone is reason enough to use it. ill throw that 7200 seagate in my pc and use it as data storage.


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## OLEDFAN

Rich said:


> The sluggishness I see is apparent in the Guide and Menus, I don't see any problems with trick-play or the stability of the picture. I watch baseball games that last for hours and hours, I see no degradation at all when doing that. Where are you seeing that sluggishness? I've compared watching D* content with a DVR with an SSD in it to watching NetFlix on an Apple TV box as far stability goes and I see little difference. No audio or video breakups, those are apparent when you have a DVR with an older HDD in it.
> 
> Rich


with the older ssd i was seeing the sluggishness during channel changes, menu delays, guide scrolling was jerky, and ff/rw was very choppy and not smooth at all. it started out fine but as the viewing got longer the sluggishness got worse. i think it had to be a failing ssd.

it was as slow as my old amazon firestick. which is awful.


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## JcT21

OLEDFAN said:


> finally got around to tinkering with the hdd and ssd in my genie. i used an adata 1tb su800 ssd. i chose that one because it has a high tbw endurance rating. when doing a rbr the ssd did boot up faster. as far as everything else, it was just as snappy. i think the ssd just barely did a little better when i made my favorite channel list and checked the boxes as it auto scrolled. that part was smooth and not as jerky. having scrolling effects turned off helps a lot. i couldn't tell any difference in menu response time and population time over the hdd. the guide did scroll smoother with the ssd.
> 
> im gonna leave this ssd in my dvr. regardless of the smart data, i think the old ssd i used before was reaching the end of its life, and that was causing the issues... and it had small, less than half the tbw rating than the su800 i have in it now. even though at the moment it doesn't provide much of a performance boost, it does cut down on noise and heat. that alone is reason enough to use it. ill throw that 7200 seagate in my pc and use it as data storage.


the 1tb evo im using has a 600 tbw. the su800 you are now using has a 800 tbw. in theory, you should be able to get many years out of that drive. to give you some perspective, my evo should last around 10-13 years if it just dont fail. i really dont see it lasting that long, but i do think 3-5yrs is very reasonable. on average, my dvr is putting about 3.2TB of data on that drive per month. after downloading software 154f the sluggishness i was having went away. after you run the ssd for a month id be curious to see the smart data. if you could post it that would be great


----------



## OLEDFAN

JcT21 said:


> the 1tb evo im using has a 600 tbw. the su800 you are now using has a 800 tbw. in theory, you should be able to get many years out of that drive. to give you some perspective, my evo should last around 10-13 years if it just dont fail. i really dont see it lasting that long, but i do think 3-5yrs is very reasonable. on average, my dvr is putting about 3.2TB of data on that drive per month. after downloading software 154f the sluggishness i was having went away. after you run the ssd for a month id be curious to see the smart data. if you could post it that would be great


in theory is right. dude, id be thrilled to get 3-5 years out of my genie bound ssd. i use cyrstal disk info for the smart data. im interested in how much its writing also. 3.2TB is a massive amount of data. if i may ask, what are you tv viewing habits? about how many hours a day does it take to get that much data? as of now the su800 is holding up quite nicely. i manually updated the software saturday night to 15A1. so far no issues. i was previously on the 154f like you are now. ill post the smart data soon. take care!


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## JcT21

OLEDFAN said:


> in theory is right. dude, id be thrilled to get 3-5 years out of my genie bound ssd. i use cyrstal disk info for the smart data. im interested in how much its writing also. 3.2TB is a massive amount of data. if i may ask, what are you tv viewing habits? about how many hours a day does it take to get that much data? as of now the su800 is holding up quite nicely. i manually updated the software saturday night to 15A1. so far no issues. i was previously on the 154f like you are now. ill post the smart data soon. take care!


it is a lot of data but considering this is tv and the dvr goes non stop even when off, its not too bad. larger families im sure will have a ton more data written to their ssd. my viewing consists mostly news, classic programming & a few season passes on the cw & history channel. i watch recorded shows and delete. rarely keep anything over a few days till i get time to watch. right now my dvr has no recordings on it. i like having the tv on in the background when im home, its either news, or music. i use the pandora app also. now that a few of my shows have ended their season, my ssd might get a breather from recording. 
havent seen the 15A1 in the stream yet. im sticking with my 154f for as long as i can. its working great. my 54 did not like the 159a at all.


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## nowandthen

nowandthen said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I have another Samsung 1TB SSD on the shelf in case my other HR24 started acting up. I may replace the current SSD with that one to see if the DVR "behaves" again. The current SSD worked well for 10 months or so. It soesn't show any issues other than slow progress bar response and restart loops.
> Your point on the Samsung SSD is taken and I intend to order a Crucial SSD if for no other reason, than to have on hand.
> 
> Again thanks!


I replaced the sluggish Samsung SSD with another SSD of the same model (Samsung 860 EVO). DVR is responsive again. I rarely record on this DVR, but I do use it alot in double-play mode. About 1 year per SSD is a bit short IMO. But it's better than throwing the remote at the TV. JK 

Any truth or significant number of experiences that Samsung drives have issues and we should use other brands. Crucial was recommended.


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## codespy

I have 4 active Samsung 860 EVO’s right now (1TB)- for 2 to 3 years now. One is problematic and I have to reboot the receiver about once every 10 days or so as it becomes unresponsive. Two of them are in our camper and they are only on when we are camping, so rarely are they on for more than 5 days at a time. So basically it’s only 1 out of 4 that I’m not pleased with. I also moved it to a different receiver and the issue moved with it.

I also have WD Blues and Greens (1TB) for a couple years now with zero issues, some loaded up to 90% but still speedy and responsive as they were on day one. All my SSD’s still run circles around the old HDD’s when I had them in my HR2x’s.


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## OLEDFAN

JcT21 said:


> the 1tb evo im using has a 600 tbw. the su800 you are now using has a 800 tbw. in theory, you should be able to get many years out of that drive. to give you some perspective, my evo should last around 10-13 years if it just dont fail. i really dont see it lasting that long, but i do think 3-5yrs is very reasonable. on average, my dvr is putting about 3.2TB of data on that drive per month. after downloading software 154f the sluggishness i was having went away. after you run the ssd for a month id be curious to see the smart data. if you could post it that would be great


not been quite a month yet but during this time smart says i have a little over 5TB of data to my ssd. so far everything is working fine. seems people using ssd's in dvr's has become the thing to do for the ones that know how to do it. a friend of mine at work has been using them in his 44-500 genie for several years. he is currently using a samsung 2tb. he did say that its his 2nd samsung ssd. claimed his first 1TB lasted about 18 months before it became problematic. he said the first ssd he used was a crucial which lasted almost 4 years.


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## JcT21

nowandthen said:


> I replaced the sluggish Samsung SSD with another SSD of the same model (Samsung 860 EVO). DVR is responsive again. I rarely record on this DVR, but I do use it alot in double-play mode. About 1 year per SSD is a bit short IMO. But it's better than throwing the remote at the TV. JK
> 
> Any truth or significant number of experiences that Samsung drives have issues and we should use other brands. Crucial was recommended.


i use a 1tb 860 evo. i began having issues which i blamed on a forced software upgrade. i downloaded a new version and it fixed those issues. but several weeks out, im now im seeing those same problems creep up again. a rbr fixes things for a while. smart data says im still good but i do think my ssd is heading south. im unable to use any wd ssd's in my 54-700. ive tried several times but the box just wont get past the format stage. ends up in a constant reboot loop.

i use the double play A LOT too. its one of the features that could be a deal breaker for me if directv ever got rid of it. just about everything i watch is either dvr or buffered delay. most of the time i even turn on a client to the channel i watch most so i can retain the buffer on my genie just in case the channel is accidently changed. works like a charm. comes in handy when my wife is watching buffered hallmark channel and has an uh oh channel change.


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## nowandthen

Another update, While the replacement Samsung EVO 860 does make the HR-24-500 better than it was, I still experience occasional; delays when fast forwarding or any other input. It was worse before, but it's not 100%. Maybe 80%. Ideally when I hit FF the progress bar will pop up quickly, but sometimes the progress bar will not pop up for several seconds (5 seconds or so). During this time it will not respond to remote input. I'm not blaming Samsung SSDs. Maybe another issue? Do I need to reset my DVR, CLEARMYBOX, or something else? Different brand of SSD? Thanks.


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## JcT21

nowandthen said:


> Another update, While the replacement Samsung EVO 860 does make the HR-24-500 better than it was, I still experience occasional; delays when fast forwarding or any other input. It was worse before, but it's not 100%. Maybe 80%. Ideally when I hit FF the progress bar will pop up quickly, but sometimes the progress bar will not pop up for several seconds (5 seconds or so). During this time it will not respond to remote input. I'm not blaming Samsung SSDs. Maybe another issue? Do I need to reset my DVR, CLEARMYBOX, or something else? Different brand of SSD? Thanks.


i did a clearmybox with my current samsung evo. it fixes the problem for a while but it slowly returns. im gonna go with another brand ssd. either gonna be crucial or the su800 adata like oledfan is using. they have a high TBW endurance rating. in the meantime i have several 1 & 2 TB used ssds laying around and tomorrow im gonna give them a try just to experiment. i have a msata ssd im gonna put in a 2.5 sata adatper just to see if it works. but ive used samsung ssd's in my own computers and ive put them in customers computers now for years without issue. the dvr writes a massive amount of data to the ssd...i would say much more than a pc would. thats going by my own experience. ive heard some people say that putting a ssd in a dvr is abuse. that may have been true several years ago when they were new and had low TBW thresholds. but today they seem to be pretty good.


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## nowandthen

I just ordered a Crucial BX500 (1TB) SSD. Should be here tomorrow (9-24-21). I will report back on it's performance or lack there-of. It may be a week or so before I report back.


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## Rich

JcT21 said:


> i use a 1tb 860 evo. i began having issues which i blamed on a forced software upgrade. i downloaded a new version and it fixed those issues. but several weeks out, im now im seeing those same problems creep up again. a rbr fixes things for a while. smart data says im still good but i do think my ssd is heading south. im unable to use any wd ssd's in my 54-700. ive tried several times but the box just wont get past the format stage. ends up in a constant reboot loop.
> 
> i use the double play A LOT too. its one of the features that could be a deal breaker for me if directv ever got rid of it. just about everything i watch is either dvr or buffered delay. most of the time i even turn on a client to the channel i watch most so i can retain the buffer on my genie just in case the channel is accidently changed. works like a charm. comes in handy when my wife is watching buffered hallmark channel and has an uh oh channel change.


Don't blame everything you see on the SSDs. The HRs themselves cause problems. If you downloaded a new version of SW and the problem went away for a period of time I'd be looking at the HR as the culprit. SSDs don't cure every problem. You should not see video breakups that you can't blame on the weather, you should not hear audio breaks that you can't blame on the weather when you use an SSD. I see all kinds of things happening on my 44 and I know it's the 44 that's causing them.

What kind of external device are you using on that 54? I've never had a problem hooking up any SSD to any HR with the external devices I use now. Here's a link to the external devices I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I've never had a problem with these externals. I do use WD SSDs. Never had a problem with them either.

Rich


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## Rich

nowandthen said:


> Another update, While the replacement Samsung EVO 860 does make the HR-24-500 better than it was, I still experience occasional; delays when fast forwarding or any other input. It was worse before, but it's not 100%. Maybe 80%. Ideally when I hit FF the progress bar will pop up quickly, but sometimes the progress bar will not pop up for several seconds (5 seconds or so). During this time it will not respond to remote input. I'm not blaming Samsung SSDs. Maybe another issue? Do I need to reset my DVR, CLEARMYBOX, or something else? Different brand of SSD? Thanks.


CLEARMYBOX does work well for some problems. Try it, you can't hurt anything by using it. You'd be surprised by how many little problems it can handle. Those problems are probably caused by the HR itself. If the SSD is causing the problem CLEARMYBOX isn't gonna fix it. Like the HDDs, the SSDs are gonna slow down a bit. Not as much as the HDDs, but you can expect to see some functions slow down. The HRs cause the SSDs to slow down, in the same manner they cause the HDDs to slow down, it just takes longer to see it. Resetting your HR will help, you should be doing that at regular intervals. I have several brands of SSDs and I see little difference in them. I have never had to replace one. What you're seeing appears to be a problem with the HR itself.

Rich


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## Rich

nowandthen said:


> I just ordered a Crucial BX500 (1TB) SSD. Should be here tomorrow (9-24-21). I will report back on it's performance or lack there-of. It may be a week or so before I report back.


I use Crucials, I see little, if any, difference in performance between them and the Evos or the WDs.

Rich


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## nowandthen

Rich said:


> CLEARMYBOX does work well for some problems. Try it, you can't hurt anything by using it. You'd be surprised by how many little problems it can handle. Those problems are probably caused by the HR itself. If the SSD is causing the problem CLEARMYBOX isn't gonna fix it. Like the HDDs, the SSDs are gonna slow down a bit. Not as much as the HDDs, but you can expect to see some functions slow down. The HRs cause the SSDs to slow down, in the same manner they cause the HDDs to slow down, it just takes longer to see it. Resetting your HR will help, you should be doing that at regular intervals. I have several brands of SSDs and I see little difference in them. I have never had to replace one. What you're seeing appears to be a problem with the HR itself.
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich!
Maybe the SSD I've been using is simply "slowing down". The replacement SSD, same as the original SSD, responds quicker, but as I said, it can be slow to the show the progress bar from time-to-time.
When you say reset, do you mean to the point where you loose all settings? Guide data needs to be rebuilt, favorite channels need to be reset, season passes need to be re-entered?


----------



## OLEDFAN

Rich said:


> Don't blame everything you see on the SSDs. The HRs themselves cause problems. If you downloaded a new version of SW and the problem went away for a period of time I'd be looking at the HR as the culprit. SSDs don't cure every problem. You should not see video breakups that you can't blame on the weather, you should not hear audio breaks that you can't blame on the weather when you use an SSD. I see all kinds of things happening on my 44 and I know it's the 44 that's causing them.
> 
> What kind of external device are you using on that 54? I've never had a problem hooking up any SSD to any HR with the external devices I use now. Here's a link to the external devices I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> I've never had a problem with these externals. I do use WD SSDs. Never had a problem with them either.
> 
> Rich


the ssd ive been using is quick. i do however notice quite a bit of video breakup, even on a perfectly clear day like today. its glitchy like rain approaching. it even pauses briefly then picks back up, but also skips 1-3 seconds of program. the hr i have is old, i dont recall this happening prior to the ssd upgrade, but it was very, very slow with a hdd. also, i can rewind for 30 seconds and the glitch does not happen again. this type of stuff happens quite often. in your opinion does that sound like a HR issue or a ssd problem?


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## studechip

OLEDFAN said:


> the ssd ive been using is quick. i do however notice quite a bit of video breakup, even on a perfectly clear day like today. its glitchy like rain approaching. it even pauses briefly then picks back up, but also skips 1-3 seconds of program. the hr i have is old, i dont recall this happening prior to the ssd upgrade, but it was very, very slow with a hdd. also, i can rewind for 30 seconds and the glitch does not happen again. this type of stuff happens quite often. in your opinion does that sound like a HR issue or a ssd problem?


If the glitch isn't there when you replay a section, it doesn't seem like it's the SSD at fault.


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## codespy

nowandthen said:


> Thanks Rich!
> Maybe the SSD I've been using is simply "slowing down". The replacement SSD, same as the original SSD, responds quicker, but as I said, it can be slow to the show the progress bar from time-to-time.
> When you say reset, do you mean to the point where you loose all settings? Guide data needs to be rebuilt, favorite channels need to be reset, season passes need to be re-entered?


CLEARMYBOX does not change any of your settings.


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## JcT21

Rich said:


> Don't blame everything you see on the SSDs. The HRs themselves cause problems. If you downloaded a new version of SW and the problem went away for a period of time I'd be looking at the HR as the culprit. SSDs don't cure every problem. You should not see video breakups that you can't blame on the weather, you should not hear audio breaks that you can't blame on the weather when you use an SSD. I see all kinds of things happening on my 44 and I know it's the 44 that's causing them.
> 
> What kind of external device are you using on that 54? I've never had a problem hooking up any SSD to any HR with the external devices I use now. Here's a link to the external devices I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> I've never had a problem with these externals. I do use WD SSDs. Never had a problem with them either.
> 
> Rich


like oledfan, i also see some video breakup. its nothing bad, much like a 1 second skip of a cd, & it doesnt happen very often. i also have noticed if i rewind the content, the glitch is not there anymore. about a week or so after doing a clearmybox the breakups and sluggishness begin to return. i use the same enclosure device you listed from amazon. whether internal or using the external device, wd ssd's just wont work with my hr54-700. however, those same wd ssd's worked fine with my neighbors 44-500. perhaps i do have a failing/faulty 54. despite the minor glitch, i still say using an ssd is much better than a regular hdd.


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## JcT21

well guys looks like my trusty samsung 860 evo finally gave it up and went to the electronic graveyard.

it happened all the sudden. working fine, had it paused. left for 5 minutes to get my mail and came back to this. maybe the constant 3-4TB written monthly was just too much. perhaps it was just faulty anyway, as others on here have had them going for years. this samsung lasted in my genie only a few months. at last smart check it had, IIRC, 96% life remaining.


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## b4pjoe

If it is only a few months old it should still be under warranty. I think they have a one year warranty.


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## codespy

JcT21 said:


> well guys looks like my trusty samsung 860 evo finally gave it up and went to the electronic graveyard.
> 
> it happened all the sudden. working fine, had it paused. left for 5 minutes to get my mail and came back to this. maybe the constant 3-4TB written monthly was just too much. perhaps it was just faulty anyway, as others on here have had them going for years. this samsung lasted in my genie only a few months. at last smart check it had, IIRC, 96% life remaining.
> 
> View attachment 31761
> View attachment 31762


I'm not a fan of the EVO's in my DVR's compared to other SSD's I have posted about. Take the warranty replacement and sell it, and grab a different MFR who makes SSD's. My $.02 cents.


----------



## JcT21

codespy said:


> I'm not a fan of the EVO's in my DVR's compared to other SSD's I have posted about. Take the warranty replacement and sell it, and grab a different MFR who makes SSD's. My $.02 cents.


i ended up ordering the adata su800 ssd. its got a higher tbw rating than the evo did, as well as many others for the price. i experimented a little today with ssd's of various sizes and brands. the lowest one i tried was a 120gb samsung pro and it worked. i remember reading here on dbstalk that a drive had to be equal size to the drive that came in it or something along those lines, which is a 1tb green drive. that apparently isnt the case, at least in my situation. i updated the firmware on my wd ssd drives. no luck. i really wish i knew why wd ssd's refuse to work with my 54 

samsung is sending me a warranty replacement. but its gonna be an 870 evo instead of an 860. should arrive in 7-10 business days.

Amazon.com: ADATA USA Ultimate Su800 1TB 3D Nand 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (ASU800SS-1TT-C) : Electronics


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## Rich

nowandthen said:


> Thanks Rich!
> Maybe the SSD I've been using is simply "slowing down". The replacement SSD, same as the original SSD, responds quicker, but as I said, it can be slow to the show the progress bar from time-to-time.
> When you say reset, do you mean to the point where you loose all settings? Guide data needs to be rebuilt, favorite channels need to be reset, season passes need to be re-entered?


No, just a red button reset (RBR) or a reset thru the menu. Or pull the plug. You don't have to do a factory reset. You won't lose anything.

Rich


----------



## Rich

OLEDFAN said:


> the ssd ive been using is quick. i do however notice quite a bit of video breakup, even on a perfectly clear day like today. its glitchy like rain approaching. it even pauses briefly then picks back up, but also skips 1-3 seconds of program. the hr i have is old, i dont recall this happening prior to the ssd upgrade, but it was very, very slow with a hdd. also, i can rewind for 30 seconds and the glitch does not happen again. this type of stuff happens quite often. in your opinion does that sound like a HR issue or a ssd problem?


You see those audio and video breakups and look out the window and see a clear day? Your dish is picking up weather from miles away, weather you can't see. Look at the radar on a weather app and you'll see storm indications to the SW. I have yet to see anything like the audio and video breakups I saw using HDDs. My pictures on all my sets are as steady as what I get from Netflix on my ATVs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

studechip said:


> If the glitch isn't there when you replay a section, it doesn't seem like it's the SSD at fault.


Agreed.

Rich


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> like oledfan, i also see some video breakup. its nothing bad, much like a 1 second skip of a cd, & it doesnt happen very often. i also have noticed if i rewind the content, the glitch is not there anymore. about a week or so after doing a clearmybox the breakups and sluggishness begin to return. i use the same enclosure device you listed from amazon. whether internal or using the external device, wd ssd's just wont work with my hr54-700. however, those same wd ssd's worked fine with my neighbors 44-500. perhaps i do have a failing/faulty 54. despite the minor glitch, i still say using an ssd is much better than a regular hdd.


I don't understand why the SSDs don't work with your 54. If they work on the 24s, which are in worse shape than the Genies, they should work on every HR. I'd get that 54 replaced.

Rich


----------



## Rich

JcT21 said:


> well guys looks like my trusty samsung 860 evo finally gave it up and went to the electronic graveyard.
> 
> it happened all the sudden. working fine, had it paused. left for 5 minutes to get my mail and came back to this. maybe the constant 3-4TB written monthly was just too much. perhaps it was just faulty anyway, as others on here have had them going for years. this samsung lasted in my genie only a few months. at last smart check it had, IIRC, 96% life remaining.
> 
> View attachment 31761
> View attachment 31762


That's disturbing. Is that SSD mounted externally?

Rich


----------



## Rich

codespy said:


> I'm not a fan of the EVO's in my DVR's compared to other SSD's I have posted about. Take the warranty replacement and sell it, and grab a different MFR who makes SSD's. My $.02 cents.


Rather have a Crucial? If that EVO only lasted a couple of months I would think there was a problem with it right out of the box. I don't think I've had an HDD that failed that quickly.

Rich


----------



## harsh

b4pjoe said:


> If it is only a few months old it should still be under warranty. I think they have a one year warranty.


The 1TB Samsung 860 EVO has a 5 year/600 TBW warranty. Other sizes are 600 TBW/TB capacity.


----------



## JcT21

Rich[/QUOTE]


Rich said:


> That's disturbing. Is that SSD mounted externally?
> 
> Rich


on this dvr it was internally. i tried it again using an external adapter just to be sure.


----------



## JcT21

i know this might sound crazy to some of you guys but i did learn something from all this. i learned that a genie & clients are still watchable even though the hard drive is shot. i did not know that before this ssd failure. i always assumed once the hdd died, so did the tv viewing.


----------



## JcT21

harsh said:


> The 1TB Samsung 860 EVO has a 5 year/600 TBW warranty. Other sizes are 600 TBW/TB capacity.


my last smart reading said the drive had 24.6 TB written to it. at the time of failure i would be surprised if it went past 29-30. hoping the new drive comes in soon. gonna list it on ebay. they cost a bit more now than they did when i got it originally. i got a 2TB & a 4TB samsung ssd prior to covid, now those same drives have nearly doubled in price on amazon.


----------



## suzook

Thinking of popping a 1tb ssd in my aging hr54. What's the general consensus on life expectancy? Thanks


----------



## OLEDFAN

suzook said:


> Thinking of popping a 1tb ssd in my aging hr54. What's the general consensus on life expectancy? Thanks


i think it highly depends on the TBW threshold of the ssd you plan to use. the higher the TBW rating the longer it should last. my adata su800 has a 800 TBW rating. in theory, it should last me over 10 years but in reality i expect to get at least 3-5 years from it, but it could very well be more. depending on your recording and viewing habits, its lifespan could go longer or shorter. dvrs constantly perform R/W activites to the drive, even when off.


----------



## harsh

OLEDFAN said:


> in theory, it should last me over 10 years but in reality i expect to get at least 3-5 years from it, but it could very well be more.


Theory is all we have absent documented evidence but given that some are having trouble with Samsung's 600TBW drives at under 30TBW, TBW may not tell the whole story.


----------



## ColdCase

TBW certainly does not tell the whole story. I suspect the PVRs are exercising a pathology built into the current Samsung design that cause stress and or inefficiency. There is still some black art involved in building these drives and the cost/performance/durability/power/thermal trades and choices are proprietary and may change on a 6 month cycle. They are not tuning these for PVR applications yet.

The rub is that this year's best drives may not work well next year. A model line's 2TB drive will work well, but the 1TB does not. So we just have to keep trying them and report on which brand/model seems to work best at the time.

When I was buying these for a living for integrating into our product line, I took samples from each batch and ran them through read/write cycles representative of what they would see in our product. We were always trying different brands and models. With tons of money one can buy something tuned to your app, but thats not real world consumer environment, where a 20 cent difference can make or break a product.

BTW I found that the Samsung EVO 860 seems to develop issues with computer video editing apps where the 850 pro did not.


----------



## suzook

Failure rates seem all over the place. I will try the adata su800. It has 3 yr warranty. Will buy direct. Amazon seems to be selling bulk, so warranty is an issue. Or I could throw my spare wd 1tb 5400 2.5 drive in. My hr54 is about 11 years old, and definately the HD is failing. Sluggish all the time.

EDIT, I am doing internal swap. Is there a way to clone my original internal, so i dont lose recordings? Thanks!

NVM, found the link. Wow...46 hours to copy the old drive. UGH.


----------



## harsh

suzook said:


> NVM, found the link. Wow...46 hours to copy the old drive. UGH.


What setup are you using that it takes that long?


----------



## P Smith

suzook said:


> 46 hours to copy the old drive. UGH.


Time is dependable on total size of recordings and "noise" eg number of small size files


----------



## suzook

I am replacing the 1tb original, with a 1tb ssd. I am hoping the clone dock station from amazon will work. I have heard it can. I picked one up for $20. I think i need to pop new drive in hr54, let it format, then Ill try the clone dock.


----------



## P Smith

suzook said:


> I think i need to pop new drive in hr54, let it format, then Ill try the clone dock.


Wrong. Cloning means copy sector-to-sector; so all info written by DVR during own init procedure, will be overwritten by cloning process. Totally.
Adding to that - prepare to see how DVR would init the SSD by itself, if SSD geometry will not match HDD geometry ( I would check if # of sectors equal for HDD and the SSD)


----------



## suzook

P Smith said:


> Wrong. Cloning means copy sector-to-sector; so all info written by DVR during own init procedure, will be overwritten by cloning process. Totally.
> Adding to that - prepare to see how DVR would init the SSD by itself, if SSD geometry will not match HDD geometry ( I would check if # of sectors equal for HDD and the SSD)


So you think I should just try the cloning before I pop the ssd in hr54?...sorry been away from the game a while.


----------



## WestDC

suzook said:


> So you think I should just try the cloning before I pop the ssd in hr54?...sorry been away from the game a while.


If your current TB Drive --is okay--Then Cloning the 1TB SSD Drive will work fine --no need to install the NEW SSD before hand is needed --If you were trying to keep your current recordings and Increase your HD size --then Copying and expanding it would be the way to go.


----------



## suzook

Well the clone didn't work. It formatted when I booted. So I can't believe how speedy my hr54 is again. I'm sure part of it is a freshly formatted drive, but the ssd was a nice upgrade!


----------



## P Smith

suzook said:


> Well the clone didn't work.





P Smith said:


> prepare to see how DVR would init the SSD by itself


Duh !


WestDC said:


> Then Cloning the 1TB SSD Drive will work fine


----------



## P Smith

Does someone will eat a crow ?


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Adding to that - prepare to see how DVR would init the SSD by itself, if SSD geometry will not match HDD geometry ( I would check if # of sectors equal for HDD and the SSD)


If the goal is to save existing content, collecting data isn't going to help (unless the SSD is lower capacity than the HD it replaces in which case the cloning will fail).


----------



## P Smith

No need to bring down notes of a member who did a lot of research and brought initial procedure of copying of DTV drives. Especially by a member who are pure dish regular customer, who are skimming DTV posts related to such very technical aspect of DTV HDD/SSD "content", actually file system per se.


----------



## suzook

Wtf? Am I missing something? I thought we all were here for questions and helping? Idk if those comments are being sarcastic, or I just don't get the internet humor? My ssd is 1gb, but cloning my original didn't work. So should I try recloning after it was formatted by the dvr?? Just looking for some help. Thank you.


----------



## harsh

suzook said:


> So should I try recloning after it was formatted by the dvr??


That's not going to help. Cloning (done correctly) is a standalone procedure and doesn't require pre-formatting, taking measurements or gathering of minutiae. This was covered in P Smith's post #881.

What cloning process/tool did you use (i.e. Clonezilla, the drive dock's duplication feature or some other)? We need to find out why your clone was flawed.

You must be absolutely certain that the SSD is as large or larger than the HDD in terms of sector count. Both technologies play fast and loose with what a Terabyte is and in the case of SSDs, sometimes that's the capacity ignoring the reserve sectors (this can be 6% of the capacity or more).


----------



## P Smith

suzook said:


> Just looking for some help.


As I mentioned before, little bit difference in parameters of the two devices [HDD and SSD] will ruin your cloned copy made by a process of cloning (regardless if it's SW or HW methods). Usually it's number of sectors, what you could easily obtain by reading labels of the drives.

So far, you found it hard way; then you have only one path of movement - to preserve your passes, schedules and recordings - follow old thread about Copying DTV HDD by using Linux based XFS programs [xfsdump and xfsrestore).


----------



## WestDC

suzook said:


> Wtf? Am I missing something? I thought we all were here for questions and helping? Idk if those comments are being sarcastic, or I just don't get the internet humor? My ssd is 1gb, but cloning my original didn't work. So should I try recloning after it was formatted by the dvr?? Just looking for some help. Thank you.


Try copying the disk again --it won't hurt anything and may just work :thumbsup:


----------



## P Smith

Yeah, you could do that indefinitely 

It's not a science or technology [duh!], it's just a matter of your lucky chance like a lotto shot ! :facepalm:


----------



## suzook

Thanks everyone. I will just setup all my recordings. Most of the stuff I had recorded is on VOD too. The hr54 feels like a completely new/different receiver with the ssd.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

I didn't have any trouble when using a cloner (1TB to 1TB), but I was going in the _other_ direction, from the SSD to the HDD.

This was for an old HR20 (I wanted the SSD for a PC). I was able to successfully clone and temporarily store the PC's contents onto an old 1TB HDD from the HR44.

Then I took the SSD from the HR20 and cloned it to the PC's old drive.

Everything came through perfectly, including the HR20's guide data.

If I recall correctly the 1TB cloning process took under 4 hours.

I'm not sure why the cloning of the same-sized drive wouldn't work for anyone else.

But I would *highly* recommend the "graceful" shutdown and proper timing of the plug pull of the HR before using _any_ method of copying!

(The only cloning "failure" I had was in trying to go to a different sized drive - 500GB to 1TB - on another HR.)


----------



## suzook

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I didn't have any trouble when using a cloner (1TB to 1TB), but I was going in the _other_ direction, from the SSD to the HDD.
> 
> This was for an old HR20 (I wanted the SSD for a PC). I was able to successfully clone and temporarily store the PC's contents onto an old 1TB HDD from the HR44.
> 
> Then I took the SSD from the HR20 and cloned it to the PC's old drive.
> 
> Everything came through perfectly, including the HR20's guide data.
> 
> If I recall correctly the 1TB cloning process took under 4 hours.
> 
> I'm not sure why the cloning of the same-sized drive wouldn't work for anyone else.
> 
> But I would *highly* recommend the "graceful" shutdown and proper timing of the plug pull of the HR before using _any_ method of copying!
> 
> (The only cloning "failure" I had was in trying to go to a different sized drive - 500GB to 1TB - on another HR.)


I'm guessing the reason my cloning didn't work, was I was cheating using the clone dock station sold on Amazon. Not the old school way using Linux. I don't have a PC anymore, just a dual boot iMac.


----------



## P Smith

suzook said:


> a dual boot iMac


Did you look at any Linux CD distro what could run on your iMac ?


----------



## P Smith

Delroy E Walleye said:


> I'm not sure why the cloning of the same-sized drive wouldn't work for anyone else.


Just because human term "size of a drive" is not definitive for OS what is running on computers [Mac, PC, Android, etc].
Better stick with precise capacity value of a drive : *the sector's count* at least.


----------



## suzook

P Smith said:


> Did you look at any Linux CD distro what could run on your iMac ?


At this point I have most of my recordings back from vod. Thanks for the suggestion


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

suzook said:


> I'm guessing the reason my cloning didn't work, was I was *cheating using the clone dock station sold on Amazon.* Not the old school way using Linux. I don't have a PC anymore, just a dual boot iMac.


Yes, this dock is what I used, too. Worked on everything I cloned (except for the one time that I mentioned).

I suspect P Smith is onto something in that there's more to it than just drive "size."

(I must have just been lucky in my situation with the HR20.)


----------



## OLEDFAN

guys, forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the genie software resides on flash and not the hdd, what is it exactly that makes remote commands and other actions faster using the ssd vs. regular hard drive?


----------



## suzook

OLEDFAN said:


> guys, forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the genie software resides on flash and not the hdd, what is it exactly that makes remote commands and other actions faster using the ssd vs. regular hard drive?


Wondering the same thing. Obviously there is alot of Sw on the HD too?


----------



## P Smith

Not exactly SW, perhaps scripts, but mostly databases [so many of them !] reside on the DTV drives.


----------



## suzook

Great having a speedy hr54 again!. Now all we need to figure out, is how to improve the qua;ity of the pic. Its so compressed these days.


----------



## P Smith

suzook said:


> Now all we need to figure out, is how to improve the qua;ity of the pic.


Become CEO of DTV !
They have too much of unused bandwidth, but continue squize out more and more bits out of video


----------



## harsh

To make sense of what P Smith is trying to relate:

Mass storage capacities are often related in rather round numbers. Most of the time they're rounded up. A drive that claims to have 1TB of capacity may be anything from 950GB to 1000 MB or even 1 billion bytes (90.95% of a terabyte). This is an unfortunate convention in drive capacity labeling.

What can't be rounded is the sector count and a drive can only hold the full contents of another drive if the usable sector count of the new drive is greater than or equal to that of the old drive.

What may be hidden is whether or not the spare/reserve sectors are part of the capacity number. Most SSDs have around 3-6% of their capacity set aside to replace sectors that have burned out. Some unscrupulous marketroids may include these sectors in their capacity claims even though they can't be used.


----------



## Rich

suzook said:


> Thinking of popping a 1tb ssd in my aging hr54. What's the general consensus on life expectancy? Thanks


I've been running SSDs on all my HRs for over three years. Haven't had one failure.

Rich


----------



## Rich

suzook said:


> Thanks everyone. I will just setup all my recordings. Most of the stuff I had recorded is on VOD too. The hr54 feels like a completely new/different receiver with the ssd.


Almost seems like the HRs were made for SSDs, doesn't it?

Rich


----------



## harsh

Rich said:


> Almost seems like the HRs were made for SSDs, doesn't it?


I don't think anything that was designed to last for seven years or more was "made for SSDs".


----------



## Rich

harsh said:


> I don't think anything that was designed to last for seven years or more was "made for SSDs".


Gotta argue over every little thing?


----------



## harsh

Rich said:


> Gotta argue over every little thing?


Only the most poorly conceived of statements.


----------



## codespy

harsh said:


> Only the most poorly conceived of statements.


Sorry, but I think everyone else including me knew what Rich meant by his post.

I've made way worse statements in the past, but most everyone here can be guilty of that now and then. We all have our days.


----------



## slice1900

Rich said:


> Gotta argue over every little thing?


You've been around here long enough to know the answer to that


----------



## OLEDFAN

Rich said:


> I've been running SSDs on all my HRs for over three years. Haven't had one failure.
> 
> Rich


rich.... after years of ssd usage, have you checked the smart data to see how much average data per day you are putting on the ssd or how much has been written to date? are the problem free ssd's crucial brand?

im averaging around 3-5 Terabytes per month.


----------



## Rich

OLEDFAN said:


> rich.... after years of ssd usage, have you checked the smart data to see how much average data per day you are putting on the ssd or how much has been written to date? are the problem free ssd's crucial brand?
> 
> im averaging around 3-5 Terabytes per month.


I haven't put an SSD on a computer. I have seen the picture judder on my Genie from time to time and I think the SSD might be at fault. Or it might be the Genie itself. I'll wait until the juddering gets worse, then I'll stick a different SSD in the box. Aside from that, the SSDs are not problematic.

I do have at least one Crucial SSD.

Rich


----------



## CenturyBreak

So... has anyone other than @JcT21 had a Samsung EVO SSD fail or become (or start out!) totally flaky in an HR?

I ask as I picked up an extra 870 early this year when they were still (relatively) cheap, either an Amazon or Newegg sale. I'd meant to use in in a Windows PC I was updating... but that turned into a Linux Mint project that made use of a smaller, cheaper SSD I had lying around. Yeah, I know... too much irrelevant info!


----------



## JcT21

CenturyBreak said:


> So... has anyone other than @JcT21 had a Samsung EVO SSD fail or become (or start out!) totally flaky in an HR?
> 
> I ask as I picked up an extra 870 early this year when they were still (relatively) cheap, either an Amazon or Newegg sale. I'd meant to use in in a Windows PC I was updating... but that turned into a Linux Mint project that made use of a smaller, cheaper SSD I had lying around. Yeah, I know... too much irrelevant info!


wd & samsung have always been my choice for ssd usage in all my computers. im currently using a samsung nvme 870 pro in this pc im using now. in this pc i have a 2tb samsung 860 QVO for my oculus and a 4tb 860 EVO for data backups. zero issues over 2yrs. the 860 evo i put in my dvr i had previously used in a pc without problems. at the time i installed it in my genie it was perfectly fine at 100% health. maybe it was just one of those rare instances where i got ahold of a bad one that was gonna fail early anyway, just the extreme data r/w of the dvr accelerated its demise.

overall ive had very good luck with samsung drives. i will continue to buy them as needed. i think the 870 might perform well in your dvr. i wouldnt hesitate to give it a try. ive experimented with several. 5400, 7200, 5900 video drives, and nothing works as smoothly as the ssd does.


----------



## codespy

CenturyBreak said:


> So... has anyone other than @JcT21 had a Samsung EVO SSD fail or become (or start out!) totally flaky in an HR?
> 
> I ask as I picked up an extra 870 early this year when they were still (relatively) cheap, either an Amazon or Newegg sale. I'd meant to use in in a Windows PC I was updating... but that turned into a Linux Mint project that made use of a smaller, cheaper SSD I had lying around. Yeah, I know... too much irrelevant info!


I bought 5 Samsung 860 EVO's (1TB) a couple years back on sale when I started SSD's in my HR24's. One of the drives makes the 24 'hang' every 7 days or so and I have to reboot the DVR due to unresponsiveness. I moved it to a different 24 and same results. I've posted that issue here in the past.

After that started happening, I purchased WD Blue and some Green 1 TB SSD's for other HR24's since BB was running sales for $99 in the past. I've had zero issues with them. One of them is used in the 24 I had troubles with when the EVO was on that one. No issues, and I'm currently using no other brands.

I barely have much time to tinker these days, so I'm not attempting to hook it up to a computer and pull SMART data from the EVO.


----------



## Soulweeper

codespy said:


> I bought 5 Samsung 860 EVO's (1TB) a couple years back on sale when I started SSD's in my HR24's. One of the drives makes the 24 'hang' every 7 days or so and I have to reboot the DVR due to unresponsiveness. I moved it to a different 24 and same results. I've posted that issue here in the past.
> 
> After that started happening, I purchased WD Blue and some Green 1 TB SSD's for other HR24's since BB was running sales for $99 in the past. I've had zero issues with them. One of them is used in the 24 I had troubles with when the EVO was on that one. No issues, and I'm currently using no other brands.
> 
> I barely have much time to tinker these days, so I'm not attempting to hook it up to a computer and pull SMART data from the EVO.


I'm about to try this. I have a thermaltake dock that has been collecting dust for while, just didn't want to spend the money on an SSD at the time, but they're cheaper now. Would you recommend the WD over Samsung, and what is the difference between the Samsung EVO and QVO, besides the QVO being cheaper?

And, you might laugh, but the biggest reason I'm considering doing this now, beside the fact that SSDs are way cheaper, is that my wife is starting to get annoyed at the HD 'hiss' in the bedroom, lol.


----------



## WestDC

Soulweeper said:


> I'm about to try this. I have a thermaltake dock that has been collecting dust for while, just didn't want to spend the money on an SSD at the time, but they're cheaper now. Would you recommend the WD over Samsung, and what is the difference between the Samsung EVO and QVO, besides the QVO being cheaper?
> 
> And, you might laugh, but the biggest reason I'm considering doing this now, beside the fact that SSDs are way cheaper, is that my wife is starting to get annoyed at the HD 'hiss' in the bedroom, lol.


I've been using a 1 TB WD green SSD in "your" Dock on an Hr22 Since 2019 with No issue's. I only use on WD's in everything -Samsung nothing for me --your choice may be different


----------



## Soulweeper

WestDC said:


> I've been using a 1 TB WD green SSD in "your" Dock on an Hr22 Since 2019 with No issue's. I only use on WD's in everything -Samsung nothing for me --your choice may be different


Thanks for the reply. The ones I have swapped in my desktops and laptops, have been Intel, but I have a friend that swears Samsung is better, so I have one ordered for when I do a fresh install of 10 on my desktop, and I will use Intel on my wife's desktop. That said, I simply hadn't heard anything about WD SSDs. I have a Terabyte blue in my Amazon cart, is the green better or?? And, I may just open it up and install it, as it's just cleaner, and it's an owned HR24 anyway.


----------



## Soulweeper

JcT21 said:


> wd & samsung have always been my choice for ssd usage in all my computers. im currently using a samsung nvme 870 pro in this pc im using now. in this pc i have a 2tb samsung 860 QVO for my oculus and a 4tb 860 EVO for data backups. zero issues over 2yrs. the 860 evo i put in my dvr i had previously used in a pc without problems. at the time i installed it in my genie it was perfectly fine at 100% health. maybe it was just one of those rare instances where i got ahold of a bad one that was gonna fail early anyway, just the extreme data r/w of the dvr accelerated its demise.
> 
> overall ive had very good luck with samsung drives. i will continue to buy them as needed. i think the 870 might perform well in your dvr. i wouldnt hesitate to give it a try. ive experimented with several. 5400, 7200, 5900 video drives, and nothing works as smoothly as the ssd does.


Mind if I ask, as I'm considering Samsung as well....what's the difference between the 870 EVO and 870 QVO, aside from the price? Obviously the EVO is superior, but how much more, and in the case of going in a DVR, would it make any difference, to save a few bucks? And, does it make a difference if it's SATA or SATA III?


----------



## P Smith

I did highlighted your question, pressed right button on my mouse and selected "Search the web", first answer was _"The EVOs use TLC memory, which is more expensive but doesn't have as much of a disparity between read and write performance. The QVO uses a cache to help speed up performance with write operations, but when that cache becomes saturated it gets very slow. "_


----------



## Soulweeper

If anyone is considering this, and the Samsung EVO SSD, B&H has a pretty good price at the moment. I ordered one, and may get another, for my PC when I redo it, or build a new one.  Might still use the WD Blue for my HR24, but regardless, it's a good price.








Samsung 1TB 870 EVO SATA III 2.5" Internal SSD


Buy Samsung 1TB 870 EVO SATA III 2.5" Internal SSD featuring 1TB Storage Capacity, 2.5" Form Factor, SATA III 6 Gb/s Interface, 1GB LPDDR4 Cache, Up to 560 MB/s Sequential Read Speed, Up to 530 MB/s Sequential Write Speed, Samsung MKX Controller, MLC V-NAND Technology, MTBF Rating: 1.5 Million...




www.bhphotovideo.com


----------



## Soulweeper

Can anyone tell me if they used a sled when installing an SSD in a 24? Reason I ask is, I heard it can float in there, but seems like with a sled, the little grounding clips can be reinstalled, but maybe they're not necessary??


----------



## Blackloz

Recently I swapped out the drive in a HR24 as it had pretty much quit and reboots were no longer working. I threw in a 2TB Seagate Barracuda and it couldn’t have been easier, now I’m thinking about swapping out the HR44 drive to a 3TB WD purple drive I’ve had new in the box for a few years now but I have way too much stuff recorded on the original drive to watch. I wish there was an easy way to transfer recordings from old to new drive but it doesn’t seem so easy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## P Smith

Blackloz said:


> it doesn’t seem so easy.


It's really easy. 
Just follow a few steps what been made and verified many times here. (some companies making big money by stealing the process from the site)


----------



## WestDC

Blackloz said:


> Recently I swapped out the drive in a HR24 as it had pretty much quit and reboots were no longer working. I threw in a 2TB Seagate Barracuda and it couldn’t have been easier, now I’m thinking about swapping out the HR44 drive to a 3TB WD purple drive I’ve had new in the box for a few years now but I have way too much stuff recorded on the original drive to watch. I wish there was an easy way to transfer recordings from old to new drive but it doesn’t seem so easy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Want to keep your old recordings --then use the 3 TB Drive external -esata cable --remove it to view any recording on the internal drive ---just a thought


----------



## JerryMeeker

Just curious, if a drive that has been running in the external eSATA drive bay is moved to inside the DVR, are the recordings on the drive still accessible?


----------



## WestDC

JerryMeeker said:


> Just curious, if a drive that has been running in the external eSATA drive bay is moved to inside the DVR, are the recordings on the drive still accessible?


In theory they would be --but when putting any HD in the DVR -the first thing the receiver Does is wipe that drive and download new software 
But if that did not happen then (see) answer below.
Yes--Reason --All recordings are tied to that DVR Access card.


----------



## Soulweeper

Could someone be kind enough to answer my question a few posts back, regarding using a sled with an SSD, and the grounding clips that are attached to the original HDD, if you know the answer? Much appreciated. Post # 925. Thanks in advance!


----------



## WestDC

Soulweeper said:


> Could someone be kind enough to answer my question a few posts back, regarding using a sled with an SSD, and the grounding clips that are attached to the original HDD, if you know the answer? Mush appreciated. Post # 925. Thanks in advance!


the SSD all plastic except for the connection --NO Sled is required --Double side tape to keep it from floating around if needed.


----------



## Soulweeper

WestDC said:


> the SSD all plastic except for the connection --NO Sled is required --Double side tape to keep it from floating around if needed.


Ok gotcha. That makes total sense, and yeah, wouldn't need the sled. Thanks!


----------



## codespy

JerryMeeker said:


> Just curious, if a drive that has been running in the external eSATA drive bay is moved to inside the DVR, are the recordings on the drive still accessible?


Yes, recordings are all tied to the same DVR.


----------



## codespy

WestDC said:


> In theory they would be --but when putting any HD in the DVR -the first thing the receiver Does is wipe that drive and download new software
> But if that did not happen then (see) answer below.
> Yes--Reason --All recordings are tied to that DVR Access card.


Technically incorrect from what I gather on that one- the recordings are tied to the RID# of the receiver not the access card. OTA recordings are not subject to that restriction- they will play on any DVR (if you move the drive to a different DVR). And if an existing drive is already formatted the first time connecting it to a DVR, it does not re-format the drive by simply moving from eSata to internal, or vice versa. I've done that very procedure in the past.


----------



## codespy

Soulweeper said:


> If anyone is considering this, and the Samsung EVO SSD, B&H has a pretty good price at the moment. I ordered one, and may get another, for my PC when I redo it, or build a new one.  Might still use the WD Blue for my HR24, but regardless, it's a good price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samsung 1TB 870 EVO SATA III 2.5" Internal SSD
> 
> 
> Buy Samsung 1TB 870 EVO SATA III 2.5" Internal SSD featuring 1TB Storage Capacity, 2.5" Form Factor, SATA III 6 Gb/s Interface, 1GB LPDDR4 Cache, Up to 560 MB/s Sequential Read Speed, Up to 530 MB/s Sequential Write Speed, Samsung MKX Controller, MLC V-NAND Technology, MTBF Rating: 1.5 Million...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bhphotovideo.com


I have a couple QVO's left in my HR24's, and one EVO- for about 3 years now because they were so inexpensive years ago when I purchased them. I've had some issues in the past with the Samsung SSD's as I have previously posted on this thread. I've been gradually switching over to 1TB WD SSD Greens and Blues for my HR24's since I have not experienced any issues compared to the Samsungs after trying a WD Blue for a while. Then main issue I had with a few QVO's is after about a week (on average), the DVR would lock and be unresponsive. I would have to do a RBR to come back to life. Once I started switching over to the WD SSD's in our primary viewing DVR's in a couple rooms of our house, my wife no longer reported that issue. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Soulweeper

codespy said:


> I have a couple QVO's left in my HR24's, and one EVO- for about 3 years now because they were so inexpensive years ago when I purchased them. I've had some issues in the past with the Samsung SSD's as I have previously posted on this thread. I've been gradually switching over to 1TB WD SSD Greens and Blues for my HR24's since I have not experienced any issues compared to the Samsungs after trying a WD Blue for a while. Then main issue I had with a few QVO's is after about a week (on average), the DVR would lock and be unresponsive. I would have to do a RBR to come back to life. Once I started switching over to the WD SSD's in our primary viewing DVR's in a couple rooms of our house, my wife no longer reported that issue. Fingers crossed.


Thanks for that feedback! Definitely makes me hesitant. I already had a 500GB EVO on the way before I got back on this kick, but that is intended for my PC, and fresh 10 install. I did order one of the 1TB EVO's the other day, planning to put it in my 24, but now maybe I'll rethink that. It can always be used as storage on my PC, or whatever. I might order a WD Blue for the 24.


----------



## P Smith

codespy said:


> Technically incorrect from what I gather on that one- the recordings are tied to the RID# of the receiver not the access card.


It would be interesting to read that experiment description in details.
Perhaps someone got burned smart card [by his kid], ordered replacement and discovered his DVR still play recordings later ?


----------



## JerryMeeker

FWIW, I just replaced my 4TB WD Purple eSATA drive with a 2TB Samsung 870 QVO ($140 at Newegg.com).










The drive is installed in a Orico 7618SUS3-BK E-SATA HDD Enclosure, a fairly robust device.










To install an SSD in the enclosure, which is designed for a standard 3.5" HD, a "converter" must be used.



















My HR54 immediately recognized the new SSD and formatted it.










Of course, lots of work after the installation (36 Seasons passes, re-scan for OTA channels, set up favorite channels lists, etc.) By the following morning, everything had returned to normal (Channel Logos visible, guide data out two weeks, access to on-demand programs). This was a relatively painless upgrade, and the responsiveness of the DVR has improved noticeably. Highly recommended.


----------



## nowandthen

nowandthen said:


> I replaced the sluggish Samsung SSD with another SSD of the same model (Samsung 860 EVO). DVR is responsive again. I rarely record on this DVR, but I do use it alot in double-play mode. About 1 year per SSD is a bit short IMO. But it's better than throwing the remote at the TV. JK
> 
> Any truth or significant number of experiences that Samsung drives have issues and we should use other brands. Crucial was recommended.


Following up: I had another Samsung SSD of the same model. I replaced the first, and as stated above, the DVR was responsive again. However, after some time (a few weeks?) programs, live TV would stutter and response was poor. I put the original SSD back in and it has been working without issue for several months. No idea why the original started giving me problems, but the replacement started acting up very quickly. Doesn't make sense that the original is working flawlessly but I am not complaining. 
Side note: This may have been mentioned, I didn't read all the posts, but I have read several articles that claim the chips in current SSDs may be inferior to those that were used when the SSD was tested. Blame supply chain, but also SSD manufacturers for not changing model numbers.


----------



## JerryMeeker

I am having a minor issue after replacing my drive with the SSD. When I set up the Seasons Passes, I selected "Only New Episodes". However, this evening I am getting recordings of shows that are several months old. Doesn't the Seasons Pass algorithm look at the First Aired date and skip the recording if it aired in the past?


----------



## WestDC

JerryMeeker said:


> I am having a minor issue after replacing my drive with the SSD. When I set up the Seasons Passes, I selected "Only New Episodes". However, this evening I am getting recordings of shows that are several months old. Doesn't the Seasons Pass algorithm look at the First Aired date and skip the recording if it aired in the past?


only if the Guide DATA is correct and that is supplied by A third party (Not D*TV)


----------



## JerryMeeker

WestDC said:


> only if the Guide DATA is correct and that is supplied by A third party (Not D*TV)


Not sure what you mean. When I click on a recording's Info button, it clearly shows a first aired date in the past, yet it schedules the program to record. Maybe I am missing something?


----------



## mickat1

When you first set up a Season Pass it always records the first Episode of that show it finds, after that it will work right.


----------



## I WANT MORE

Sorry folks, been perusing the thread but can't come up with a definitive answer. The hard drive in my HR54-500 is failing. It has an e-sata port so I want to use an external drive.
1tb is probably large enough but would consider larger. 
Please provide me with some suggestions. 
Thanks


----------



## WestDC

I WANT MORE said:


> Sorry folks, been perusing the thread but can't come up with a definitive answer. The hard drive in my HR54-500 is failing. It has an e-sata port so I want to use an external drive.
> 1tb is probably large enough but would consider larger.
> Please provide me with some suggestions.
> Thanks


The hr54 HD is already 1TB --Would suggest you go larger 2tb or above -unlike the 2 tuners DVR the genie can go up to 16 tb --so go a large as your check book allows


----------



## I WANT MORE

WestDC said:


> The hr54 HD is already 1TB --Would suggest you go larger 2tb or above -unlike the 2 tuners DVR the genie can go up to 16 tb --so go a large as your check book allows


Any particular brand that you would recommend that is proven to work with this DVR? Thanks


----------



## codespy

I’m using a WD Blue 6TB HDD drive both internal and external, and a ThermalTake dock for 5 years now. But a new TT dock is no longer available (there are some used ones on eBay here and there).

There was a software bug for awhile last year on the Genie where nothing larger than 6TB could be used, but they fixed that since then (although it provided a major inconvenience for several subs during that time).


----------



## WestDC

I WANT MORE said:


> Any particular brand that you would recommend that is proven to work with this DVR? Thanks


Any "brand" you feel good about --I only use WD --but anything you choose should work well


----------



## OLEDFAN

I WANT MORE said:


> Any particular brand that you would recommend that is proven to work with this DVR? Thanks


i use the adata su800 ssd in my main hr54 box. its been a few months and ive had no issues at all. my 2nd genie has a 1tb seagate 5900rpm video drive. its noisy but otherwise problem free. get the most space you can afford. most people, including myself suggest wd spin drives or go the ssd route. im replacing my seagate with an ssd because its a tad bit too noisy for my liking.


----------



## JerryMeeker

I had been using a 4TB WD Purple drive in an external eSATA enclosure, and it worked flawlessly. I recently replaced it with a 2TB Samsung SSD, also using the external eSATA enclosure, just to see how much faster my HR54 performs with the SSD technology. So far, the SSD is performing flawlessly as well. As far as what size to get, I suppose it depends on how much you record and how long you want to keep the recordings. I record quite a few shows, but I delete everything as soon as it is viewed. I rarely go below 90% available space.


----------



## P Smith

WestDC said:


> but anything you choose should work well


*Could *work well


----------



## Blackloz

I’m finally at the point where I have watched all the important stuff on my HR44 and all current recordings are also being recorded on another receiver so I can now finally install my 3TB WD purple drive I’ve had new for years now. I upgraded my HR24 back in November as the drive died so I put in a 2TB in it and I was told it’s a harder process than the HR44 so I’m not anticipating any problems and might tackle it this weekend. The HR24 literally took 15 minutes and I found a video of a guy upgrading the HR54 and it looked easy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## codespy

Blackloz said:


> I’m finally at the point where I have watched all the important stuff on my HR44 and all current recordings are also being recorded on another receiver so I can now finally install my 3TB WD purple drive I’ve had new for years now. I upgraded my HR24 back in November as the drive died so I put in a 2TB in it and I was told it’s a harder process than the HR44 so I’m not anticipating any problems and might tackle it this weekend. The HR24 literally took 15 minutes and I found a video of a guy upgrading the HR54 and it looked easy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They are all relatively easy to open, just takes a couple minutes of patience. Fans in my 24’s have died more often than drives over the years. To make it easier, the four plastic side clips on the units are easy to remove along with unscrewing the two underside clips. I put all of them in a plastic bag and have them stored in my DirecTV supplies box.

Now, all covers lift right off with no tools. DirecTV is not really recovering most DVR’s these days and the warranty is pointless for most of them. You likely won’t get a DVR replacement anyways if one goes bad (that has a TV output connection unlike the HS17).

Since all the clips are removed on all my IRD’s, periodically (once every year or two) I’ll remove the cover to carefully blow out dust buildup accumulated inside. It’s a simple maintenance thing.


----------



## harsh

codespy said:


> Since all the clips are removed on all my IRD’s, periodically (once every year or two) I’ll remove the cover to carefully blow out dust buildup accumulated inside. It’s a simple maintenance thing.


I'd recommend carefully vacuuming rather than blowing. Blowing may drive things into places where they can do even more damage.


----------



## b4pjoe

Use canned air to dust your computer. Canned air is easy to use and is available at most computer and office supply stores. *Don't use a vacuum cleaner*. A vacuum can create static electricity that can damage computer components.


----------



## harsh

b4pjoe said:


> A vacuum can create static electricity that can damage computer components.


And canned air doesn't?

A vacuum with a brush provides a much better ground path than a hand-held can of compressed "air".


----------



## P Smith

vacuuming is not that effective as dusting out by canned air, just do it outside


----------



## b4pjoe

harsh said:


> And canned air doesn't?


No it doesn't.


----------



## harsh

b4pjoe said:


> No it doesn't.


And compressed air doesn't overspeed fans causing bearing damage either?


----------



## b4pjoe

Not if you use it correctly. You put one finger on the blades to keep them from turning while blowing the dust out.


----------



## codespy

harsh said:


> I'd recommend carefully vacuuming rather than blowing. Blowing may drive things into places where they can do even more damage.


I would never vacuum them, and haven’t for the last 15 years. It’s just a BAD idea. What places in your DirecTV receivers are areas where ‘things’ could cause more damage? And what are ‘things’ that you are referring to?

I use canned air to clean them up. Using an air compressor is a bad idea due to moisture content possibly being applied to the PCB and all the components.

With my routine for so long now, I’ve never had a failure due to my procedure in removing dust from the interior.


----------



## harsh

codespy said:


> What places in your DirecTV receivers are areas where ‘things’ could cause more damage?


Driving dust into and over-speeding the fan bearings for one. Forcing particles into tight spots around the SMD pads and other nooks and crannies can't be good for airflow.

A proper vacuuming removes particulates rather than spreading them elsewhere.


----------



## b4pjoe

harsh said:


> Driving dust into and over-speeding the fan bearings for one. Forcing particles into tight spots around the SMD pads and other nooks and crannies can't be good for airflow.
> 
> *A proper vacuuming* removes particulates rather than spreading them elsewhere.


No such thing on and around electronic components. Recipe for disaster.


----------



## codespy

harsh said:


> Driving dust into and over-speeding the fan bearings for one. Forcing particles into tight spots around the SMD pads and other nooks and crannies can't be good for airflow.
> 
> A proper vacuuming removes particulates rather than spreading them elsewhere.


The fan cleaning has been discussed. And as they pop out easily on my DVR’s, I can take a baby wipe to carefully clean the crud off it without liquid/agents or anything else getting into the bearings doing damage if the canned air does not clean it off first.

Show me a pic of the inside of one of your DirecTV DVR’s with the nooks and crannies where things are forced into preventing airflow, as I’m not experiencing what you are claiming. Then post a picture of the vacuum you use too, along with the MFR and model number. I’ve never heard someone seriously recommend this before. 🧐


----------



## Blackloz

I made the swap last night and it was quick and easy just like my HR24 was. I got the unit back in July 2014 and I do keep a very clean home theater room and my equipment stand under my tv is cleaned throughly and is free of dust but I still expected to see some dust inside the unit but there was none, it was extremely clean still. I bought a 3TB WD Purple drive back in 2015 and just put it in now, all these years later I wish I had got a 5 or 6 TB but 3 is still much more than the 1 that is comes with. The two sided tape attached to the old drive & heatsink isn’t sticky anymore obviously but I used it on the new drive anyway. The stock drive still works fine so I stored it away for now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## codespy

I’m at about 72% full on my 6TB WD Blue with my HR54. It has slowed down remote response/commands a little bit but overall still pretty decent. My HR24’s with SSD’s currently operate faster than my HR54.


----------



## Rich

This August, it will be four years with SSDs in my HRs. Not one drive failure in that time. 

I'm disconnecting all my DVRs the day after tomorrow and ending my satellite subscription. A little over a month ago, I did a five-day trial of Direct TV Stream and five days wasn't enough time to evaluate that service. So, I bought four streaming boxes and paid for the streaming service and the satellite service, fully intending to return the streaming boxes at the end of the month and keep the sat service. 

I haven't used an HR in weeks; my wife has been using the streaming service and has had very few problems. The DVR function is easier to use than an HR. I made the call a few minutes ago; I'm done. It's been a trip.


----------



## WestDC

Rich said:


> This August, it will be four years with SSDs in my HRs. Not one drive failure in that time.
> 
> I'm disconnecting all my DVRs the day after tomorrow and ending my satellite subscription. A little over a month ago, I did a five-day trial of Direct TV Stream and five days wasn't enough time to evaluate that service. So, I bought four streaming boxes and paid for the streaming service and the satellite service, fully intending to return the streaming boxes at the end of the month and keep the sat service.
> 
> I haven't used an HR in weeks; my wife has been using the streaming service and has had very few problems. The DVR function is easier to use than an HR. I made the call a few minutes ago; I'm done. It's been a trip.


Do you have unlimited internet? I'm capped -that's the only reason I haven't left


----------



## Rich

WestDC said:


> Do you have unlimited internet? I'm capped -that's the only reason I haven't left


I must have an unlimited plan, I've never had a problem and my son is a gamer, he's on all the time when he's home.

The only problem I've had is the lack of one of my locals, which carries several Mets and Yankees games. I can live with that. It must be a carriage problem, the D* sat service has WPIX, but the streamer doesn't. I'll find out why the next time I call...if they know.


----------



## elitehitokiri

I dont know I think I'd rather have my own drives over cloud dvr. I guess weather doesn't affect it is nice. I dont like they delete recordings and it's not really unlimited. Recordings expire after 9 months. In a series recording, max 30 episodes stored (oldest deleted first which may be in less than 9 months). It be nice if you had an option with that service to download things you want to keep or keep longer.


----------



## zcarguy

I installed a wd blue 500gb ssd in my hr21-700. It boots all the way past step 2 or 2 : Receiving satellite info. Then goes to rebuilding scheduler list. 2 seconds later it reboots and the cycle repeats over and over. Any have any ideas?


----------



## P Smith

press SELECT/OK button during boot phase and execute BIST


----------



## zcarguy

P Smith said:


> press SELECT/OK button during boot phase and execute BIST


I did that. Tested drive and all tests passed except LBA fix. Gave error 3012 (if I recall) 

Thanks


----------



## b4pjoe

Force a reinstall of the software. Rebot the receiver. When you see the first blue screen, enter the following sequence on the remote: 0 2 4 6 8

If you have been successful, you will see a blue screen indicating that your receiver is searching for new software. If you see the regular DIRECTV graphic, you have not been successful.


----------



## P Smith

b4pjoe said:


> Force a reinstall of the software


Why ? What's the reason? Isn't CLEARBOX sufficient ?


----------



## b4pjoe

Because it may not have installed fully the first time. Doesn’t hurt to try if it can’t be booted with what is installed. And if it can’t be booted you can’t do a CLEARMYBOX.


----------



## P Smith

b4pjoe said:


> Because it may not have installed fully the first time


Very weird artificial cause!
Being a member here for 20 years, I don't recall any such case posted here.

It could happen if your IRD would lost power during very short period of time when you could see last 5% of downloading progress bar. But after such incident, I'm very skeptical if you could use the box at all.


----------



## b4pjoe

So what is the harm in trying it? It will either work or it won't. Currently the receiver is a brick.


----------



## P Smith

Just useless.
First, before "change tires", need to find why the "car's engine is stopped"


----------



## b4pjoe

Well he could try a different hdd which costs money. Or try a reinstall of the software which is free. His choice.


----------



## carl6

Software is not overwritten until after the download is complete and checksum verified. A failed download should have no adverse impact, you should still have the unit operating under the old software. I suppose it is theoretically possible to have a failure during the brief period that the actual software write is occurring, thus possibly rendering the unit inoperable.


----------



## harsh

P Smith said:


> Just useless.


Is that any different than recommending a S.M.A.R.T. test or some other invasive procedure for every suspected hard drive issue?


----------



## b4pjoe

carl6 said:


> Software is not overwritten until after the download is complete and checksum verified. A failed download should have no adverse impact, you should still have the unit operating under the old software. *I suppose it is theoretically possible to have a failure during the brief period that the actual software write is occurring, thus possibly rendering the unit inoperable.*


Exactly. Many times a fix for software issues is re-installing the software. And like I said the receiver is currently a brick. No harm in trying. Takes about 10 minutes out of someones day.


----------



## P Smith

b4pjoe said:


> Many times a fix for software issues is re-installing the software.


You re mistakenly mixing your PC's software/smartphone apps with IRD FIRMWARE. 
Go ahead with your own IRDs for your advice.


----------



## P Smith

zcarguy said:


> my hr21-700. It boots all the way past step 2 or 2 : Receiving satellite info.


Why you naming the box as "a brick" ? DId you read his post ? Well, I did a quote for you 


b4pjoe said:


> And like I said the receiver is currently a brick.


----------



## b4pjoe

P Smith said:


> You re mistakenly mixing your PC's software/smartphone apps with IRD FIRMWARE.
> Go ahead with your own IRDs for your advice.


I have done it many times with my own receiver. Doesn't harm anything at all. Software is software.


----------



## b4pjoe

P Smith said:


> Why you naming the box as "a brick" ? DId you read his post ? Well, I did a quote for you


Well lets put the whole quote in there then. Read the bolded part carefully.



> I installed a wd blue 500gb ssd in my hr21-700. It boots all the way past step 2 or 2 : Receiving satellite info. *Then goes to rebuilding scheduler list. 2 seconds later it reboots and the cycle repeats over and over.*


I'll state the end of the quoted part for you..."*Then goes to rebuilding scheduler list. 2 seconds later it reboots and the cycle repeats over and over.*" which basically makes it a brick.


----------



## b4pjoe

Also doing the 0 2 4 6 8 routine does nothing more than what would happen if you installed another hard drive. It INSTALLS the software.


----------



## zcarguy

b4pjoe said:


> Force a reinstall of the software. Rebot the receiver. When you see the first blue screen, enter the following sequence on the remote: 0 2 4 6 8
> 
> If you have been successful, you will see a blue screen indicating that your receiver is searching for new software. If you see the regular DIRECTV graphic, you have not been successful.


I have the ssd installed. Blue screen comes up and says searching for new software. Progress shows 0% and has been stuck on that for at least 5 minutes.... It says do not interrupt.... How long should this take? I would feel better if it showed some progress.....numbers at the top keep changing. But no progress.


----------



## zcarguy

b4pjoe said:


> Well lets put the whole quote in there then. Read the bolded part carefully.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll state the end of the quoted part for you..."*Then goes to rebuilding scheduler list. 2 seconds later it reboots and the cycle repeats over and over.*" which basically makes it a brick.


It's not a brick... Works perfectly fine with original drive connected....


----------



## b4pjoe

zcarguy said:


> I have the ssd installed. Blue screen comes up and says searching for new software. Progress shows 0% and has been stuck on that for at least 5 minutes.... It says do not interrupt.... How long should this take? I would feel better if it showed some progress.....numbers at the top keep changing. But no progress.


AS long as the numbers are changing it should complete.


----------



## b4pjoe

zcarguy said:


> It's not a brick... Works perfectly fine with original drive connected....


That is good to know. If the reinstall of the software doesn't work this time I would try a different SSD or revert back to the original.


----------



## P Smith

b4pjoe said:


> if you installed another hard drive. It INSTALLS the software.


Another mistake 
HDD have nothing to do with a firmware.


----------



## P Smith

b4pjoe said:


> which basically makes it a brick.





> It's not a brick... Works perfectly fine with original drive connected....





b4pjoe said:


> That is good to know.


You are such an acrobat ! Changing shoes during a flip


----------



## zcarguy

The software download did not seem to complete. Eventually the dvr rebooted. Same issue after rebuilding scheduler. At that point I just connected the orginal drive. It's slow a molasses to reboot but does work. Must be an issue the the WD blue drive I am using. Was hoping for a performance boost with the ssd. Anyone with a hr21-700 successfully get an SSD to work? If so please share.


----------



## b4pjoe

P Smith said:


> Another mistake
> HDD have nothing to do with a firmware.


So if the firmware has nothing to do with the HDD why does it boot with the internal drive but not with the external drive?


----------



## WestDC

zcarguy said:


> The software download did not seem to complete. Eventually the dvr rebooted. Same issue after rebuilding scheduler. At that point I just connected the orginal drive. It's slow a molasses to reboot but does work. Must be an issue the the WD blue drive I am using. Was hoping for a performance boost with the ssd. Anyone with a hr21-700 successfully get an SSD to work? If so please share.


You may need to a different dock or encloser


----------



## P Smith

b4pjoe said:


> So if the firmware has nothing to do with the HDD why does it boot with the internal drive but not with the external drive?


You must educate yourself by reading the site [DTV forums], your multiple FUD are annoying.


----------



## b4pjoe

P Smith said:


> You must educate yourself by reading the site [DTV forums], your multiple FUD are annoying.


You're all talk with nothing of substance.


----------



## zcarguy

WestDC said:


> You may need to a different dock or encloser


Drive is installed internally.


----------



## Delroy E Walleye

zcarguy said:


> <----- It's slow a molasses to reboot but does work. Must be an issue the the WD blue drive I am using. Was hoping for a performance boost with the ssd. *Anyone with a hr21-700 successfully get an SSD to work? * If so please share.


I had been running an SSD on an HR21-700 (500GB Samsung EVO in an older Thermaltake dock). Worked fairly well, but eventually required weekly reboots or would lock up.

Definitely was a performance boost (as much as an HR21 could get). Had other drives on that unit in that dock that worked without reboots but were slow.

Also tried a 1TB EVO in an HR20 (in an Oyen eclosure) but had the same problem of needing regular restarts. Wound up putting that SSD into a PC and cloning the HR data back to the PC's old HDD drive and the HR20 more or less works great since, until it started getting full lately. PC couldn't be better, though. (The gory details are further up this thread for both HRs.)

I have yet to try a different brand SSD on an HR, but would like to.

Although those required restarts were kind of a nuisance, the "improved" performance on the HR21 was almost worth it.


----------



## Rich

zcarguy said:


> The software download did not seem to complete. Eventually the dvr rebooted. Same issue after rebuilding scheduler. At that point I just connected the orginal drive. It's slow a molasses to reboot but does work. Must be an issue the the WD blue drive I am using. Was hoping for a performance boost with the ssd. Anyone with a hr21-700 successfully get an SSD to work? If so please share.


Yeah, I used SSDs for a few years and had no problems as you have had. How do you have the SSD mounted, internally or externally? If it's mounted externally, what kind of enclosure are you using?


----------



## Rich

zcarguy said:


> Drive is installed internally.


Try using an enclosure, here's a link to the enclosures I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WC1QQVC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
If you sort thru the thread that's linked in my Signature below this post you'll see that mounting the SSDs internally wasn't recommended for various reasons. Try the enclosure in the link, if it doesn't solve your problem you can return it.


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## zcarguy

Sorry I forgot it report back. On Jun 26 I bought a Samsung Evo 870. Booted right up. It's installed internally. Hopefully I won't have any problems with the hr21. My hr24 has a crucial drive for about 1 year. No issues...


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## codespy

There's a bunch of savings on SSD's during Amazon Prime- WD Blue 1TB down to $84, 2TB down to $169. I'm picking up a couple extras for the rest of my 24's.


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## J Blow

Not like y'all really need one more confirmation but I was having a problem with my HR24 - wouldn't go past "step 1 of 2 - searching for satellite signal" so I replaced the internal drive with a 500GB Western Digital Blue SSD ($44 at Best Buy) and it fixed it. It's also much faster than it was before, too!


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## codespy

J Blow said:


> Not like y'all really need one more confirmation but I was having a problem with my HR24 - wouldn't go past "step 1 of 2 - searching for satellite signal" so I replaced the internal drive with a 500GB Western Digital Blue SSD ($44 at Best Buy) and it fixed it. It's also much faster than it was before, too!


Welcome to the club! 👏


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## lionsfan

J Blow said:


> Not like y'all really need one more confirmation but I was having a problem with my HR24 - wouldn't go past "step 1 of 2 - searching for satellite signal" so I replaced the internal drive with a 500GB Western Digital Blue SSD ($44 at Best Buy) and it fixed it. It's also much faster than it was before, too!


I put the same drive in an external enclosure about a month ago in one of my HR24, runs like a new machine.


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## codespy

People more and more are finally getting the drift. The improvement is immense. Even reboot times compared to the bogged down magnetic drives.


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## J Blow

codespy said:


> People more and more are finally getting the drift. The improvement is immense. Even reboot times compared to the bogged down magnetic drives.


I've had Directv since 1996 and been a member here (with a previous account) about as long as one could be and at one time was much more active. With Directv having the same crap equipment for a long time, I've pretty much checked out on caring about it - especially as I've watched far less TV than I used too......but that said, I should have done this SSD upgrade long ago. Today I added an SSD to my 5th and final HR24 - all internal upgrades as I don't want wires hanging off them. The response time and user experience is unbelievably better.

Not that it matters now but I do wonder if back in the days I was suffering through the HR21/22/23 years if they couldn't have been made much better by simply replacing/reformatting those drives. I know adding an SSD would have been a huge upgrade but that was way back when we couldn't really get them.

At any rate - this is just a message to let everyone to do this upgrade - it's very worth it.


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## videojanitor

Good info in this thread. I put an older Crucial 250GB SSD into an (even older) HR20-700 and it worked OK except for the fact that every 4-5 days, the video became herky-jerky and required a reboot to fix. Yesterday I tried replacing the Crucial with a new 500GB WD Blue, but it didn't work out -- during startup, the DVR would reboot when the "Receiving satellite info" reached 29%. Replaced the WD drive with a Microfrom SSD I'd pulled from a PC, and it is (so far) working fine. Will take a few days to see if it develops the same issue as the Crucial.


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## videojanitor

Following up on my post above — HR20 is still running solid one week later, with the Microfrom SSD. No issues at all.


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