# I've got a problem...



## Rollo Smokes (Dec 3, 2004)

This is my first posting here, and I hope I get good response and some helpful advice. Not that I've said that...

I've been a DirecTV suscriber for two years now, and I recently moved into a new apartment in another part of New York City (in one of the "outer boroughs"). At my previous residence, DSS dishes were allowed, and mine was mounted on the roof of the building. I lived on the top floor, so the dish was directly above me. 

When I moved to my current space in September, I was told by the building superintendent that satellite was allowed, but as long as nothing was placed on the roof. When my dish was reinstalled, it was placed near a window adjacent to the living room, but a fire escape was blocking the signal. The installer then chose to mount the dish to the fire escape itself. 

In late October, I got a second dish, this one bringing me Canadian programming from Bell ExpressVu. This one was also placed on the fire escape, and directs at an different angle from the DirecTV dish. 

Now, one would think that the building super would have working knowledge of the management company's rules and regulations, right? 

Well, this week he told me that both of my dishes would have to come down. The fire escape installations are condsidered "fire hazards". Fine. I can move them closer to the bedroom windows. Then I was told by the management that satellite is prohibited completely. Wow, if I had known this three months ago, I would have never taken this apartment, but I trusted the super's knowledge. What a mistake. And, if they don't come down, they could slap him (the super) with a building code violation and a fine. 

Mind you, all of this is lip service. I have nothing in writing from either the super or the landlord stating that the dishes were not allowed, and there was nothing in the lease stating such a prohibition. The word I got from a person in the management office was that "(our local cable company) contracts the building, and satellite is forbidden". I then told them to inform the other two tenants in my building who also have DirecTV of the same thing. If I have to take my dishes down, they will have to also. 

So, while I wait for something written to come my way, I have a dilemma. I don't want to deal with cable. I am happy with both my American and Canadian dish services, and I am seriously considering moving both dishes into the apartment, where they can't say anything about it. I realise that this is a space-compromising issue, but I'm willing to do whatever I feel is necessary to keep my current viewing services. The clock is ticking. 

I have found several options online for mounting the dish, and I am looking into each seriously. But I have one important question, which I have found different answers to: can the signals be picked up through glass windows? 

Opinions and suggestions, please...


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

Rollo Smokes:

Check out fcc.gov. In the search box at the top of the home page, type in OTARD. You will see that in most cases landlords have no legal right to prevent use of a satellite dish. The landlord may be able to enforce NYC ordinances pertaining to fire escapes but I'm not sure about that. You can get a signal through glass, if you have a clear view of the southern horizon. Other posters here may be able to help with more specific information.


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## Chris Blount (Jun 22, 2001)

Here is the facts sheet:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Actually, you can only get a signal through certain types of glass. And if you have double or triple pane windows, I'd bet you'll be hard pressed to get a usable signal level.


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## scooper (Apr 22, 2002)

If you had an exclusive use balcony, you would have them dead to rights about placing any number of DBS dishes you can fit on YOUR balcony. However, using the fire escape would be considered "COMMON" grounds, and further - you can't block it from it's primary function. You can also be restricted from putting any holes in the structure of the building, or on the face.

With this information - I'd suggest you look for another place, one a bit more "satellite / DBS" friendly, when your lease is up.


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## Rollo Smokes (Dec 3, 2004)

I've gone over the OTARD rules and looked over my lease again.

However, a line of the standard New York State apartment lease states that: "_An aerial may not be erected on the roof or outside wall of the building without the written consent of the owner. Also, awnings or other projections shall not be attached to the outside walls of the building or to any balcony or terrace._"

Do these small dishes count as "aerials" or "projections"?


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

No, they don't - even if someone thinks they do. "Attach" may be the key word.

But how about the good old simple pole in a bucket of cement solution?


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## Nick (Apr 23, 2002)

No balcony, as I understand his post, he was using the fire escape in lieu of balcony. I imagine he has a typical flat in a typical NY apt building.

What type of mounts/locations do the other tenants with dishes have?


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## Rollo Smokes (Dec 3, 2004)

Nick said:


> No balcony, as I understand his post, he was using the fire escape in lieu of balcony. I imagine he has a typical flat in a typical NY apt building.
> 
> What type of mounts/locations do the other tenants with dishes have?


The other two tenants have their dishes mounted on the exterior wall, near the fire escape and the the left of a window. In their cases, the fire escape does not get in the way of the line-of-sight to pick up the signal.

They're also located on the southern side of the building. I'm located in the front/middle. My dishes are more obvious than the other two, and one of those other tenants -- who lives on my floor -- will be moving in the near future.


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## Rollo Smokes (Dec 3, 2004)

One week ago, I posted about my problems with the management of my apartment building, who told me that I had to remove my satellite dishes.

After looking up and carefully studying the OTARD rules, sending a copy of the "Second Order and Report" of the '96 Telecommunications act to management, and going over my lease again, I've finally gotten a response.

First, here's where I'm at: my Canadian satellite was still on the fire escape. My intent was to remove it (as per New York City fire codes), and I was waiting for the arrival of a tool I was going to mount that dish onto, something I purchased on eBay from a reliable seller. I had my DirecTV dish moved last Saturday to a new location, affixed to the bedroom window, mounted to the space in between the lower windows -- not on the walls or the granite window sills. The Canadian dish was going to be placed on a hard piece of plexiglass, and attached to the outside window with six heavy-duty suction cups -- a window mount, if you will. It arrived in the mail on Monday.

My day (Tuesday) started off rudely, as my superintendent arrived at my door just after 10 AM this morning, with wrench in hand, and with orders from the landlord to take my Canadian dish down off the fire escape. I told the super that I had sent management a letter, and that I would speak to them later in the day. I then called my fiance and told her what had happened. Twenty minutes later, one of the building's owners called me and explained his side of the story. These are the reasons why he feels no one in our building -- his building -- should have a individual dish:

1) Unfair Advantage. Only those who live on the front side -- the western and south ends -- of the building would be able to get a clear line-of-sight, while others in the back (north and east ends) could not. I would be unfair for those of us in the front to be able to have these services while the back residents could not.

2) Damage to the Building. Kind-of, sort-of a legitimate gripe. But, really, how much damage could be done to a building by one harmless dish installation? If you can't mount on the roof, or fire escape, then fine. But is any other area unsuitable? Are there any alternatives?

3) The Cable Factor: Our local cable system has a digital cable deal which offers services similar to DirecTV and Dish, for about (or just over) the same price. Wait, this is cable we're talking about, right? They have been known to raise their rates at will. I asked the man point-blank if they had an exclusive deal with the cable company, and he said "no".

About ninety minutes later, the super returns. I told him of my conversation with his boss. The super calls the management office, and he speaks to someone may be the building owner's son. He gives me his phone, and I speak to him for several minutes. His tone was more excitable than that of his father. He harped on and on about "doing damage to MY building", and "how are you going to pay for it?" (Isn't that what security deposits are for?)

The co-owner cites a clause in the lease regarding "changes and alterations" to the apartment, but it only refers to interior issues, such as non-permissible appliances (like a washing machine), and painting/wallpapering without prior written consent. He tells me about my letter and explained to me -- just as his dad did -- that while they are all for giving their tenants choices, they don't want anyone to have individual dishes. It just seemed to me that their reasons are more cosmetic (to keep the building looking good on the outside) than for anything else. 

They also told me that DirecTV and the private contractor I called in twice are stealing money from me by installing the dishes in places where they don't belong. But remember, like I said before, no such prohibitions regarding satellites was in the lease. The other two tenants with DirecTV had their dishes removed sometime on Monday afternoon.

The Canadian dish will come down this morning at 7:30 AM Eastern. The DirecTV dish will remain where it is until further notice. I may need to speak to a lawyer about this situation, but I'm not sure what kind of lawyer to look for. Any advice?


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## Pete K. (Apr 23, 2002)

The building owner is determined to get your dish out of there. I'm reasonably certain he cannot legally force you to take down the dish but I'm not an attorney.
The question you must ask yourself: is all this worth the misery the landlord can create for you? If so, then by all means talk to an attorney.Preferably a lawyer who specializes in renters' rights. If you are not sure of where to find one, contact the local Bar Association, they can refer you to a competent attorney. I think it stinks that you are being bullied this way.


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## Richard King (Mar 25, 2002)

Tell the landlord that he can charge a premium rent ($5-10 per month) to those on the side of his building that have a direct shot to the satellite arc. This would take care of one objection. As for the damage to the building, I am on the landlord's side on this one. You have no right to drill into the side of the building, into a window sill, or any other place outside your unit. I doubt that your damage deposit would cover the cost of a new sill or having a cement person repair damage to the outside if you mount it on the brick (assuming you have brick) facade. If the suction cup device arrives you might have a leg to stand on, discounting the possible liability to the landlord if the suction cup device and dish falls on someone's head passing below your unit.


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## the_bear (Oct 18, 2004)

As a rental property owner, I am surprised any landlord is not familiar with OTARD. I just assumed NY was another state that required property managers to be licensed. You must move your dish from the fire escape to the landlord’s new designated location. If you do not yet have the equipment to place the dish in the new location you do without TV until that time. Your local D installer should have known not only that fire escapes are a no-no, but also where on the building the management prefers to have dishes mounted.

If your lease says no dishes can be mounted, that part of the lease in invalid. I am sure your lease says that if any part of the lease is illegal, the rest of the lease shell still be binding. Your landlord should have called is own attorney by now. Hopefully, that is all that it will take. You don’t need a lawyer because many cities have tax payer funded mediation for simple disputes like this.


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