# DECA support?



## Hoggy (Sep 5, 2008)

trying to connect up to 50 receivers to the network using DECA, what is required for this?


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## hilmar2k (Mar 18, 2007)

Pretty sure that exceeds the limit for DECA (by 34, if memory serves).


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Couldn't you use an ethernet switch and bridge each DECA cloud? You would need 4 clouds, two with 13 DECA's and two with 14 DECA's (one extra broadband DECA on each cloud for the switch).


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

Go Beavs said:


> Couldn't you use an ethernet switch and bridge each DECA cloud? You would need 4 clouds, two with 13 DECA's and two with 14 DECA's (one extra broadband DECA on each cloud for the switch).


Each cloud has a 16 node limit, "BUT" while you may combine several clouds, the end result isn't going to be something anyone would want, as the traffic from 50 receivers would bring everything to a standstill. :nono2:


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

Yeah, probably would be better to have hardwired ethernet on every box connected to one big switch for that amount of traffic.


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

Possible but that would limit all the cloud interaction to only a few switch ports. Might get a bit ugly depending on how usage load is spread across the realm when running.

This sounds like a commercial application that would be best served utilizing a wired Ethernet alongside cascaded multiswitches either SWM or not. Depending on the network topology each receiver could have it's own trunk and streams between a server and client would have more or less a private pipe from which to do so.

But in either case there is a limit to the number of DVR's a "single cloud" can handle. (last I heard 10 on Ethernet) I would assume this would apply on DECA when bridging clouds as well. But straight HD receivers can be as many as required.

It's either a commercial endeavor here or his house is bigger than mine

Don "in which case I'm jealous" Bolton



Go Beavs said:


> Couldn't you use an ethernet switch and bridge each DECA cloud? You would need 4 clouds, two with 13 DECA's and two with 14 DECA's (one extra broadband DECA on each cloud for the switch).


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

I thought the UPL was limited to 5 HD-DVRs? Is it 10 now?


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## Go Beavs (Nov 18, 2008)

lugnutathome said:


> Possible but that would limit all the cloud interaction to only a few switch ports. Might get a bit ugly depending on how usage load is spread across the realm when running.
> ...


Let's see...

Worse case scenario, you have 13 DVR's on one cloud (if thats even possible) streaming to 13 receivers on another. Assume 8 Mb/s per stream... that's 13*8 = 104 Mb/s. Not gunna happen on a 100Mb DECA bridge.

So, while that situation would be unlikely, it could definitely "get ugly" as you said.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

armchair said:


> I thought the UPL was limited to 5 HD-DVRs? Is it 10 now?


I know someone that had 11, but talk about a playlist that you couldn't use. :eek2: :nono: :lol:


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## armchair (Jul 27, 2009)

veryoldschool said:


> I know someone that had 11, but talk about a playlist that you couldn't use. :eek2: :nono: :lol:


I thought someone had mentioned that the list of DVRs in the "Whole-Home/Status" stopped at 5 networked DVRs. Don't know this as a fact but I may have concluded too much from that recollection.

If the list of networked DVRs stops at 5, you're saying the UPL still contains all DVRs in the cloud; correct? Or do I still have it wrong?


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## RunnerFL (Jan 5, 2006)

veryoldschool said:


> I know someone that had 11, but talk about a playlist that you couldn't use. :eek2: :nono: :lol:


Mine is out of control with 6 DVRs, I can't imagine 11.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

armchair said:


> If the list of networked DVRs stops at 5, you're saying the UPL still contains all DVRs in the cloud; correct? Or do I still have it wrong?


"The list" and the "UPL" aren't the same. The networked DVRs is limited to around 5, while the UPL will display recordings from many more DVRs.


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

RunnerFL said:


> Mine is out of control with 6 DVRs, I can't imagine 11.


When it was all working, [down from more than 11] it sucked so bad that it was turned off.


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## gg80108 (Dec 4, 2010)

Just got Directtv,,, Every thing works great.. I can see my 3 hd receivers in my router logs,, but I don't see the DECA box even though this is the connection to my router.. any explainations???


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## lugnutathome (Apr 13, 2009)

The WHDVR status menu choice is limited to a display of only 5. This is a coding issue on that menu functionality and a non issue if you only have 6 DVRS as it never shows itself anyhow.

Can be a real beeotch however when you bring up a basic H2{x} receiver for the first time and it only shows 5.

The UPL shows all the programming and works to all connected servers however.

Someone needs to expand the size limit of the memory array in the status menu code. Not sure the firmware language may have dynamic memory allocation though in which case for most customers that would be a waste of memory which is already in tight supply. Much like my own

Don "what were we talking about?" Bolton



armchair said:


> I thought someone had mentioned that the list of DVRs in the "Whole-Home/Status" stopped at 5 networked DVRs. Don't know this as a fact but I may have concluded too much from that recollection.
> 
> If the list of networked DVRs stops at 5, you're saying the UPL still contains all DVRs in the cloud; correct? Or do I still have it wrong?


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

gg80108 said:


> Just got Directtv,,, Every thing works great.. I can see my 3 hd receivers in my router logs,, but I don't see the DECA box even though this is the connection to my router.. any explainations???


This is "normal" and was explained to me as since they don't pull/use an IP address, this is why.


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## gg80108 (Dec 4, 2010)

wow good info,,, I can set my dvr through the Directtv internet page,, doesn't this come in through my router to deca to hddvr or some other magic?


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## sungam (May 10, 2007)

gg80108 said:


> wow good info,,, I can set my dvr through the Directtv internet page,, doesn't this come in through my router to deca to hddvr or some other magic?


When you use online scheduling the commands are sent to the DVR via satellite. The Internet connection to the DVR is not used for remote scheduling.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

gg80108 said:


> Just got Directtv,,, Every thing works great.. I can see my 3 hd receivers in my router logs,, but I don't see the DECA box even though this is the connection to my router.. any explainations???





veryoldschool said:


> This is "normal" and was explained to me as since they don't pull/use an IP address, this is why.


Correct. The DECA is just an adapter to split/combine ethernet traffic onto/off the coax cable. It does not have a MAC address.

- Merg


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## veryoldschool (Dec 10, 2006)

The Merg said:


> Correct. The DECA is just an adapter to split/combine ethernet traffic onto/off the coax cable. *It does not have a MAC address.*
> 
> - Merg


Actually they each do, but it's the lack of requiring an IP address that makes the difference.


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## gg80108 (Dec 4, 2010)

think its coming to me now,, I dont have a phone line so the HD receivers registered on the router so I can do pay per view and see HD on my DirectTVtoPC .... The mac on the deca must just be for the private network of hd receivers so the dvr can go from room to room ..


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

veryoldschool said:


> Actually they each do, but it's the lack of requiring an IP address that makes the difference.


I'll hafta do some more research as the DECA, considering its function, should not need a MAC address at all. The only thing I can see is it is technically acting as a switch, which while having a MAC address, as you mentioned above regarding the DECAs, it does not require a IP address.

- Merg


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Hoggy said:


> trying to connect up to 50 receivers to the network using DECA, what is required for this?


Seriously .. 50? .. Something's not sounding right with that number.

That being said, each DVR can see 10 DVRs (again, not sure if that is 10 total or 11 total, but I think it's 10 total, including the one you're on).

So even if you found a way to hook all of them up (Ethernet switch, whatever) .. You'd find that you're severely limited by not having 40 DVRs on your playlist at all. Double that by the fact that I THINK the DVR selection will change each time. It would make for a lot of WTF moments I think.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

The Merg said:


> I'll hafta do some more research as the DECA, considering its function, should not need a MAC address at all. The only thing I can see is it is technically acting as a switch, which while having a MAC address, as you mentioned above regarding the DECAs, it does not require a IP address.
> 
> - Merg


My DECA1MR0-01 module has the MAC address printed on the bottom of the front green label.


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

The Merg said:


> I'll hafta do some more research as the DECA, considering its function, should not need a MAC address at all. The only thing I can see is it is technically acting as a switch, which while having a MAC address, as you mentioned above regarding the DECAs, it does not require a IP address.
> 
> - Merg


I think that the term "bridge" is a better fit than switch.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

bobnielsen said:


> I think that the term "bridge" is a better fit than switch.


Could be... 

Was just making the point that while a switch has MAC, it doesn't need an IP address... Might be similar to how the DECAs are working. Generally, a bridge will have it's own IP address, even if it is not used for anything other than acting as a bridge.

- Merg


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

As currently utilized, a DECA module is neither a switch nor a bridge; it is simply a bi-directional converter that goes between an Ethernet cable and a coax cable. A MAC address is not needed for that use, so perhaps there are other potential applications.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Barry in Conyers said:


> As currently utilized, a DECA module is neither a switch nor a bridge; it is simply a bi-directional converter that goes between an Ethernet cable and a coax cable. A MAC address is not needed for that use, so perhaps there are other potential applications.


But don't DECA adapters still act like an ethernet bridge by only allowing the data packet streams intended for destinations on its opposite ends (ethernet cable<--->coax) to traverse it while blocking all others?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> As currently utilized, a DECA module is neither a switch nor a bridge; it is simply a bi-directional converter that goes between an Ethernet cable and a coax cable. A MAC address is not needed for that use, so perhaps there are other potential applications.


Well technically it is a bridge. It bridges the DECA network with the Ethernet network. TCP/IP runs on top of each network.


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

Doug Brott said:


> Well technically it is a bridge. It bridges the DECA network with the Ethernet network. TCP/IP runs on top of each network.


Yes, and in fact that was the main reason I thought a DECA adapter needs a MAC address so it would know what data packets to actually allow over its "bridge" and what not to and block.

If the data packet has a particular DECA's MAC address embedded in its header it allows the packet to cross, if not it ignores it which effectively blocks the data traffic from passing.


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

HoTat2 said:


> Yes, and in fact that was the main reason I thought a DECA adapter needs a MAC address so it would know what data packets to actually allow over its "bridge" and what not to and block.
> 
> If the data packet has a particular DECA's MAC address embedded in its header it allows the packet to cross, if not it ignores it which effectively blocks the data traffic from passing.


I'm not sure exactly what is going on there as certainly non DECA connected DVRs can traverse the bridge.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

Being TCP/IP on both sides does not mean something is a bridge. If the DECA unit is not blocking packets based on MAC addresses, what bridging function is it performing?


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> Being TCP/IP on both sides does not mean something is a bridge. If the DECA unit is not blocking packets based on MAC addresses, what bridging function is it performing?


It's a bridge because both Ethernet and DECA are operating on Layer 2 .. and the DECA module connects the two distinct physical networks.

TCP/IP is Layer 3.

If there were switching/routing on the DECA module (there's not), then the module would be a switch.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

I know what a switch and router do. The still unanswered question is what bridge function does the DECA module perform?


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## bobnielsen (Jun 29, 2006)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridging_(networking):

Bridging and routing are both ways of performing data control, but work through different methods. Bridging takes place at OSI Model Layer 2 (data-link layer) while routing takes place at the OSI Model Layer 3 (network layer). This difference means that a bridge directs frames according to hardware assigned MAC addresses while a router makes its decisions according to arbitrarily assigned IP Addresses. As a result of this, bridges are not concerned with and are unable to distinguish networks while routers can.


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## The Merg (Jun 24, 2007)

bobnielsen said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridging_(networking):
> 
> Bridging and routing are both ways of performing data control, but work through different methods. Bridging takes place at OSI Model Layer 2 (data-link layer) while routing takes place at the OSI Model Layer 3 (network layer). This difference means that a bridge directs frames according to hardware assigned MAC addresses while a router makes its decisions according to arbitrarily assigned IP Addresses. As a result of this, bridges are not concerned with and are unable to distinguish networks while routers can.


Which makes perfect sense. As you would normally use a switch on a network with a router, any traffic that is destined for that network would already be directed onto it by the router. The switch at that point is just looking for the device on that network to send the data to and does so by looking for the particular MAC address.

Of course, the interesting thing here is that a switch will not have a MAC address, yet the DECAs do. And bridges generally have MAC addresses and IP addresses, but DECAs do not have IP addresses. So, what exactly is the purpose of the MAC address of the DECA?

- Merg


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## Doug Brott (Jul 12, 2006)

Barry in Conyers said:


> I know what a switch and router do. The still unanswered question is what bridge function does the DECA module perform?


The same function any network bridge does .. transports data packets between two different networks. In this case, the bus/token topology on the DECA side and the bus/broadcast topology on the Ethernet side. Physically the two types of networks work differently .. The DECA module connects these two distinct networks to make them appear as one network .. bobnielsen gives an apt description above.


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## hdtvfan0001 (Jul 28, 2004)

I think some of this DECA network technical information would be a valuable addition to the FAQ section....just my $0.02.


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## Barry in Conyers (Jan 14, 2008)

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I think some of this DECA network technical information would be a valuable addition to the FAQ section....just my $0.02.


hdtvfan0001 and I have been known to disagree, but I'll throw in two bits if it will help convince someone that technical documentation is a good idea and is not "too complicated".


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## HoTat2 (Nov 16, 2005)

The Merg said:


> Which makes perfect sense. As you would normally use a switch on a network with a router, any traffic that is destined for that network would already be directed onto it by the router. The switch at that point is just looking for the device on that network to send the data to and does so by looking for the particular MAC address.
> 
> Of course, the interesting thing here is that a switch will not have a MAC address, yet the DECAs do. And bridges generally have MAC addresses and IP addresses, but DECAs do not have IP addresses. ...
> 
> - Merg


Yeah ...

I certainly would not consider myself among the ethernet savvy myself and have a tough time getting my mind wrapped around some of this ethernet IP/TCP protocol stuff. 

However, in the assortment of intermediary networking ethernet switches, PowerLine adapters, and of course DECA adapters on my home network I notice none of them show up on my Network Magic topology map or under the "Network" category of any PC here running Windows Vista or 7 as devices with assigned IP addresses.

Only the end terminal equipment. PCs, my NAS, networked printer, the DirecTV receivers (as "media adapters," "servers," or "renderers" ), etc.



> ... So, what exactly is the purpose of the MAC address of the DECA?


But can't we still assume as with all other bridges where after powering up the DECA adapter bridges likely build up then store a list of MAC addresses (a forwarding or filtering database) on the two LAN segments it joins?

Then when a DECA receives a frame with a MAC destination address on the same LAN segment it ignores it, but if the MAC destination address is on the other segment it passes it over to that segment as the Wikipedia link bobnielson refers to describes?


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