# DISH Network to Expand HD Line-Up in 2008



## JohnH

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/080107/133867.html

Monday January 7, 8:00 am ET 
100 National HD Channels, 100 HD Local Markets

ENGLEWOOD, Colo., Jan. 7, 2008 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- DISH Network(r) (NasdaqGSISH - News) today announced plans to increase its national HD channel count from 76 to 100 in 2008. The company also plans to add local HD channels in 65 new markets, bringing its HD local market total to 100.

The addition of new HD national and local channels is a testament to DISH Network's unwavering focus on providing the best HD offerings,'' said Eric Sahl, senior vice president of Programming for DISH Network. ``We at DISH Network will continue to not only be a leader in the number of HD channels, but also in quality in value.''

DISH Network plans to launch three satellites in 2008, providing the company additional bandwidth to maintain its reign as a top HD provider.

The company begins its HD launches with 11 local markets including: Austin, TX; Baltimore; Cleveland; Columbia, S.C.; Flint, Mich.; Greenville, S.C.; Huntsville, Ala.; Jackson, Miss.; Knoxville, Tenn.; Orlando, Fla.; and Richmond, Va. The addition of these markets brings DISH Network's local HD penetration to 80 percent of U.S. TV households.

In conjunction with the launch of new HD programming, DISH Network is offering more choices for HD customers, including HD packages as low as $10 per month for more than 20 of the most popular HD channels. New HD packages will be available beginning Feb. 1, 2008.

``DISH Network's HD programming packages, paired with the industry's best HD DVRs, give TV consumers the complete TV viewing experience and another powerful reason to switch to DISH Network -- if they haven't already,'' Sahl said.

For more information about DISH Network's HD offerings or DVR technology, call 1-800-333-DISH (3474), visit http://www.dishnetwork.com, or visit your local DISH Network retailer.

About EchoStar Communications

EchoStar Communications Corporation (NasdaqGSISH - News) has been a leader for more than 27 years in satellite TV equipment sales and support worldwide. The Company's DISH Network(r) provides more than 13.695 million satellite TV customers with industry-leading customer satisfaction which has surpassed major cable companies for seven years running. DISH Network customers also enjoy access to a premier line of award-winning Digital Video Recorders (DVRs), hundreds of video and audio channels, the most International channels in the U.S., industry-leading Interactive TV applications, Latino programming, and the best sports and movies in HD. DISH Network offers a variety of package and price options including the lowest all-digital price in America, the DishDVR Advantage Package, high-speed Internet service, a free upgrade to the best HD DVR in the industry, and six months free of DishHD. EchoStar is included in the Nasdaq-100 Index (NDX) and is a Fortune 300 company. Visit http://www.echostar.com or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474) for more information.

Contact:
EchoStar
Media Contact:
Francie Bauer
720-514-5351
[email protected]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: EchoStar Communications Corporation


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## RAD

Would have been nice if he put a date on some of the additions. Do they have to wait until the satellites get launched to do any of this or can they start doing the additions now?


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## JohnH

RAD said:


> Would have been nice if he put a date on some of the additions. Do they have to wait until the satellites get launched to do any of this or can they start doing the additions now?


It looks like the local HDs can be up as soon as uplink licenses are obtained for the spotbeams on EchoStar 12.


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## bthessel

Still no locals in HD for Cincinnati, this may push me over to D* this year. Really getting tired of messing with little antennas on top of the entertainment center. Plus the wife hates them.


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## GrumpyBear

This is a perfect reason, to allow users to pick and choose an alternate Market area. I started with Dish when I lived up North in a white out area, and was able to have 2 markets, I sure miss those days.


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## jgurley

I've looked all over the Dish web site and couldn't find anything on the new HD programming packages. Can someone post a link if there is one? Thanks.


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## atlind01

This kind of re-iterates what I have been hearing throughout the weekend. during the NFL playoff games they had commercials and in that they mentioned that more HD is on the way.

But again the question is when exactly? and how many?


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## Thaedron

I feel for the Dish subscribers who will likely go through the same "soon" / "by the end of calendar year 2008" / etc... non-specific timelines that we DirecTV subs just endured. 

The good news though is that I think the general timeline is "as soon as we reasonably can". Market competition is a powerful motivator.

Enjoy the new channels when they start to come online.


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## Newshawk

I think Dish's market percentage calculations are screwy. They claim they will have 80% of the total US TV households with less markets than DirecTV? And they do this by bypassing larger cities than DirecTV does? Perhaps they mean when (or _if[/I) they get all 65 of the markets they claim to be adding this year online they'll have 80%._


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## lparsons21

atlind01 said:


> This kind of re-iterates what I have been hearing throughout the weekend. during the NFL playoff games they had commercials and in that they mentioned that more HD is on the way.
> 
> But again the question is when exactly? and how many?


This seems to imply in February, but no numbers or which channels:

In conjunction with the launch of new HD programming, DISH Network is offering more choices for HD customers, including HD packages as low as $10 per month for more than 20 of the most popular HD channels. New HD packages will be available beginning Feb. 1, 2008.


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## James Long

I don't read a GUARANTEE of 100 by the end of the month ... the 100 is by the end of the year (and I hope is an honest 100 ... no fluff). The package introduction (HD Essentials and HD Ultimate) will be on February 1st.

Hopefully the gang at CES will have more information later in the day. The E* press conference is at 11am MT (1pm ET/10am PT). Being able to get a line up card from the booth would be nice as well (if available).


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## dave1234

Newshawk said:


> I think Dish's market percentage calculations are screwy. They claim they will have 80% of the total US TV households with less markets than DirecTV? And they do this by bypassing larger cities than DirecTV does? Perhaps they mean when (or _if[/I) they get all 65 of the markets they claim to be adding this year online they'll have 80%._


_

Marketing announcements are always fun to decipher.  

I read the announcement as meaning Dish Network local HD coverage will be available to 80% of US households. Not that 80% of households would subscribe. (I.E. 80% could subscribe to local HD coverage from Dish Network if they wanted to, not that they will.)_


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## BNUMM

RAD said:


> Would have been nice if he put a date on some of the additions. Do they have to wait until the satellites get launched to do any of this or can they start doing the additions now?


Many will have to wait for new satellites. JPL(space calendar) and Lyngsat seem to indicate that the next scheduled launch will be June 2008. Neither seem to indicate a firm date which is probably due to uncertainties with Sea Launch launch schedule.


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## phrelin

Well, I guess I complained about their silence on the subject too much. So they felt the need to say something. The problem is I don't know any more than before. Sigh.


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## krisztoforo

BNUMM said:


> Many will have to wait for new satellites. JPL(space calendar) and Lyngsat seem to indicate that the next scheduled launch will be June 2008. Neither seem to indicate a firm date which is probably due to uncertainties with Sea Launch launch schedule.


Do you know who's performing the actual launches? If it's Sea Launch then E* is a bit optimistic expecting to launch 3 satellites with them this year. Or is there another company they contracted already? (Ariane maybe?)


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## rocatman

krisztoforo said:


> Do you know who's performing the actual launches? If it's Sea Launch then E* is a bit optimistic expecting to launch 3 satellites with them this year. Or is there another company they contracted already? (Ariane maybe?)


The three satellites are the leased AMC-14 that will be launched on a Proton to 61.5 W scheduled for March 2008, Echostar-11 (E-11) that is scheduled to be launched on a Zenit-3 by Sea Launch to 110 W and the leased Ciel-2 that is scheduled to be launched on a Proton to 129 W. The Proton is a Russian launch vehicle that should be able to gain more business because of the availability of a second launch pad about mid 2008.

It should be noted that when AMC-14 is launched and operational at 61.5 W , this may free up E-3 for use at another location. Yes E-3 has had some failures but it still has some usefullness. When E-11 is launched and operational at 110 W, this will probably free up the E-6 and E-8 satellites for use elsewhere. The E-5 satellite at 129 W is just about used up its useful life so when Ciel-2 replaces it, the big jump in capability with be both in spotbeams and much greater and consistent signal.


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## lparsons21

Well, I certainly don't plan on waiting until June to get more HD channels. Dish could give us some right now pretty easily. Just knock down the number of PPV HD channels by half and that would enable a few channels.

Yeah, I know, it would really tick off the 3 people that actually buy PPV, but what the heck...


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## phrelin

rocatman said:


> The three satellites are the leased AMC-14 that will be launched on a Proton to 61.5 W scheduled for March 2008, Echostar-11 (E-11) that is scheduled to be launched on a Zenit-3 by Sea Launch to 110 W and the leased Ciel-2 that is scheduled to be launched on a Proton to 129 W. The Proton is a Russian launch vehicle that should be able to gain more business because of the availability of a second launch pad about mid 2008.
> 
> It should be noted that when AMC-14 is launched and operational at 61.5 W , this may free up E-3 for use at another location. Yes E-3 has had some failures but it still has some usefullness. When E-11 is launched and operational at 110 W, this will probably free up the E-6 and E-8 satellites for use elsewhere. The E-5 satellite at 129 W is just about used up its useful life so when Ciel-2 replaces it, the big jump in capability with be both in spotbeams and much greater and consistent signal.


And we knew all this before the news release and we knew they would add HD when the satellites are in place. Oh, that wasn't a news release - it was an advertisement for vaporware, again. Where's my SciFi and USA HD that they uplinked ages ago? Lay off some PR people and hire some techies.


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## JohnnyHighGround

If they try to stick Cleveland's locals on 129 I'm going to have to find someone to punch in the junk.

Also, some dude on Satteliteguys seems pretty confident SciFi and USA are launching by Feb.

Take that for what it's worth, a'course...


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## davethestalker

No channels named, just a lot of blah blah as smoke is blown up my rear end.

80% of the country's HD locals eh? All depends on what "local" means I guess.


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## jrb531

lparsons21 said:


> Well, I certainly don't plan on waiting until June to get more HD channels. Dish could give us some right now pretty easily. Just knock down the number of PPV HD channels by half and that would enable a few channels.
> 
> Yeah, I know, it would really tick off the 3 people that actually buy PPV, but what the heck...


QFT!


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## BJK

lparsons21 said:


> Well, I certainly don't plan on waiting until June to get more HD channels. Dish could give us some right now pretty easily. * Just knock down the number of PPV HD channels by half and that would enable a few channels.*
> 
> Yeah, I know, it would really tick off the 3 people that actually buy PPV, but what the heck...


My feelings exactly.

BJK


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## ajiva

Woohoo, Austin finally gets HD locals! I can get rid of the tiny antenna on the top of my TV


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## DustoMan

Well, if they do the top 100 markets, I'm still out of luck cause I'm in 127.


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## projectorguru

my Parents will be pizzed! Still no Harrisburg, PA locals


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## Ressurrector

I read this and was highly optimistic as I currently get chattanooga TN locals and TECHNICALLY live perfectly tween chatt and knoxville.......So I thought hey I will just call them up and switch right??? WRONG I am simply told by a foreigner "sorry sir thats not possible " too add insult to injury whenever I try over the air antennas ALL I can get is Knoxville not Chattanooga stations so I SHOULD be AT least be qualified to get them...... And don't give me no horse**** bout spot beams CAUSE Knoxville locals are sat 110 based therefore EVERY dish customer could get them........:nono2: oh well maybe we will at least see USA and Scifinetwork in 08


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## DBS Commando

Doesn't mention what nationals they will be offering. . .


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## RAD

ajiva said:


> Woohoo, Austin finally gets HD locals! I can get rid of the tiny antenna on the top of my TV


But you may need to put up a 61.5 dish if you don't have one since the rumor is that they'll be using spotbeams on the old Rainbow satellite for the locals. If that's incorrect, sorry.


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## Ron Barry

> I read this and was highly optimistic as I currently get chattanooga TN locals and TECHNICALLY live perfectly tween chatt and knoxville.......So I thought hey I will just call them up and switch right??? WRONG I am simply told by a foreigner "sorry sir thats not possible " too add insult to injury whenever I try over the air antennas ALL I can get is Knoxville not Chattanooga stations so I SHOULD be AT least be qualified to get them...... And don't give me no horse**** bout spot beams CAUSE Knoxville locals are sat 110 based therefore EVERY dish customer could get them........:nono2: oh well maybe we will at least see USA and Scifinetwork in 08


I don't think that is E* fault. Sounds like chattanooga, TN is your DMA and that is why E* can't give you knoxville. Why you can't get Chattanooga locals via OTA is another issue and the lack of ability to get the stations OTA is not a factor to determine what locals you are able to get with a Sat/Cable provider.


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## saweetnesstrev

JohnnyHighGround said:


> If they try to stick Cleveland's locals on 129 I'm going to have to find someone to punch in the junk.
> 
> Also, some dude on Satteliteguys seems pretty confident SciFi and USA are launching by Feb.
> 
> Take that for what it's worth, a'course...


No 129 please,, i can't even see STO HD, or FSN Ohio in HD cause its on 129 and i dont have 129, cause the people never installed a 129 thingy.


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## Dicx

DustoMan said:


> Well, if they do the top 100 markets, I'm still out of luck cause I'm in 127.


Sorry, how do you know what market you are in? Or number for that matter.


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## bthessel

Why is everyone getting so excited? Didn't they make all kinds of statements in the past about locals and most of them never got done? What makes this time different?


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## Ressurrector

Ron Barry said:


> I don't think that is E* fault. Sounds like chattanooga, TN is your DMA and that is why E* can't give you knoxville. Why you can't get Chattanooga locals via OTA is another issue and the lack of ability to get the stations OTA is not a factor to determine what locals you are able to get with a Sat/Cable provider.


Hey man what all you know bout getting digital signals OTA? Whats weird is using the vip 722 tuner I can get ONE station DTV (not even HDTV but DTV nevertheless) now the tuner in my sony won't find none BUT I know it atsc I am starting to think it must be pretty tough to get OTA digital signals cause I live in a hole sorta lol tween two mountains and I MIGHT keyword MIGHT put in 70-80 bucks for a good antenna old school BUT I am afraid to if its not gonna help much so really all I am doin is rabbit ears into a 722 for now..... and have you seen that job that philips is selling for 40 bucks?? its an antenna (odd shape) that mounts a lil pole like dish antenna sposed to be great for DTV... Bad thing is tho it says in the 722 book you cannot use a diplexer IF the antenna has a preamp and that one does. And the way I have it setup now is one coax in but I got a diplexin pair I did with cable too for awhile........


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## JTBenson

Ressurrector said:


> Hey man what all you know bout getting digital signals OTA? Whats weird is using the vip 722 tuner I can get ONE station DTV (not even HDTV but DTV nevertheless) now the tuner in my sony won't find none BUT I know it atsc I am starting to think it must be pretty tough to get OTA digital signals cause I live in a hole sorta lol tween two mountains and I MIGHT keyword MIGHT put in 70-80 bucks for a good antenna old school BUT I am afraid to if its not gonna help much so really all I am doin is rabbit ears into a 722 for now..... and have you seen that job that philips is selling for 40 bucks?? its an antenna (odd shape) that mounts a lil pole like dish antenna sposed to be great for DTV... Bad thing is tho it says in the 722 book you cannot use a diplexer IF the antenna has a preamp and that one does. And the way I have it setup now is one coax in but I got a diplexin pair I did with cable too for awhile........


I am using a diplexer and a pre-amp on my 622's, but I don't read the manual. I usually just go ahead and try things out to see if they work.


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## GrumpyBear

I am hoping we get a better timeline. Not looking for drop dead dates myself, a range will work. Debating more and more, better HD with less DVR features, or Better Hardware Features and less HD.


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## Ron Barry

Ressurrector said:


> Hey man what all you know bout getting digital signals


This is the advice I always give with people thinking about OTA. 
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1369236#post1369236


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## Ressurrector

JTBenson said:


> I am using a diplexer and a pre-amp on my 622's, but I don't read the manual. I usually just go ahead and try things out to see if they work.


ahh thx good to know that!!! Hey I read manuals :lol: I like to smell new manuals too its a strange fetish I have


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## Ressurrector

Ron Barry said:


> This is the advice I always give with people thinking about OTA.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1369236#post1369236


Thx for the link bro. I been to antennaweb.org before and according to IT it only shows one DTV channel (getting with rabbit ears) the rest is analog purple mostly and red codes I keep thinking this is in error as some channels it list are HD I know yet it doesnt label them as so Iand wonder is it like that site like knows with absolute certainty there is no way I can get the digital signals of the stations listed OTA with any antenna/resources hence it doesnt label them as DTV???

I think I wanna head to that forum in your post too and see if I can find a local person and see their setup/results


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## HarryC

phrelin said:


> Where's my SciFi


I have SciFiHD and you're not missing much. Very little content is actually in HD, even shows shot in HD are often shown in Standard Def. Perhaps by the time they roll it out in February or whatever for dish SciFi will have upgraded the content.


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## Bill R

bthessel said:


> Still no locals in HD for Cincinnati, this may push me over to D* this year. Really getting tired of messing with little antennas on top of the entertainment center. Plus the wife hates them.


I HIGHLY suggest that before you switch to DirecTV you look at a neighbor's or friend's HDTV that has the Cincinnati HD locals from DirecTV. DirecTV does a henderous job on HD locals in the Cincinnati market plus, they only carry four of them and no sub channels. Some HD sporting events are almost unwatchable.

Try a better antenna on your DISH receiver or, if you can, put up an outside antenna.


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## tomcrown1

Dish lies again maybe.

We will get our Hd in December of 2008 thus Dish kept its word. Rise the HD package for all HD program to $50.00??

Just what does this new HD package mean???

Gosh Dish is getting worse and worse at Pr.


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## James Long

tomcrown1 said:


> We will get our Hd in December of 2008 thus Dish kept its word. Rise the HD package for all HD program to $50.00??


Huh? Are you confusing DISH DVR Advantage (which has been $49.99 since introduction last year and is price frozen through Feb 2009) with the $20 DishHD (which will soon have a $10 Essentials option)?


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## Paul Secic

GrumpyBear said:


> I am hoping we get a better timeline. Not looking for drop dead dates myself, a range will work. Debating more and more, better HD with less DVR features, or Better Hardware Features and less HD.


You must give them time. They're only human.


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## Paul Secic

tomcrown1 said:


> Dish lies again maybe.
> 
> We will get our Hd in December of 2008 thus Dish kept its word. Rise the HD package for all HD program to $50.00??
> 
> Just what does this new HD package mean???
> 
> Gosh Dish is getting worse and worse at Pr.


Tom, go to AT&T U-servre & see what you get. VAPORWARE!


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## tomcrown1

James Long said:


> Huh? Are you confusing DISH DVR Advantage (which has been $49.99 since introduction last year and is price frozen through Feb 2009) with the $20 DishHD (which will soon have a $10 Essentials option)?


James that is what I mean by bad Pr Dish claims it will have a low $10 HD pack.

Dish is silent on the current $20 DishHD which gives Dish the opening to raise this package. If Dish has no intention of raising the package they should have stated so.


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## James Long

tomcrown1 said:


> James that is what I mean by bad Pr Dish claims it will have a low $10 HD pack.
> 
> Dish is silent on the current $20 DishHD which gives Dish the opening to raise this package. If Dish has no intention of raising the package they should have stated so.


Don't let your imagination get you carried away!

The Press release doesn't make a claim of a $50 HD pack either. Where did you pull that from?


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## Richard King

tomcrown1 said:


> James that is what I mean by bad Pr Dish claims it will have a low $10 HD pack.
> 
> Dish is silent on the current $20 DishHD which gives Dish the opening to raise this package. If Dish has no intention of raising the package they should have stated so.


WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!? Are they now supposed to make an announcement when they are NOT going to raise rates??? Talk about PR problems. I can just imagine all the paper the PR department would generate if they announce each morning "We are not raising our rates on our $20 HD package today".


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## skyway

So Dish announced a new plan for the HD packages, but didn't bother to give any details? Any ideas on what the new packages will be?


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## tomcrown1

Richard King said:


> WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!? Are they now supposed to make an announcement when they are NOT going to raise rates??? Talk about PR problems. I can just imagine all the paper the PR department would generate if they announce each morning "We are not raising our rates on our $20 HD package today".


What if they do?? I know the $50.00 price is a bit wild, but that is my point. Dish announced that they will freeze their rates on some program package why not HD??

I believe that they did not make this statement , because the HD package will go up, to what amount is any ones guess.

If dish has no intention of raising the HD rate why not announce this freeze like they did the other packages??


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## James Long

With all due respect, you're a lousy guesser.

Check out the price increase threads (in both the main and HD forums).
There is graphical PROOF that the two HD packages will be $10 and $20.
HD Ultimate is $20 and is the same as the current DishHD $20 package.


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## texaswolf

HarryC said:


> I have SciFiHD and you're not missing much. Very little content is actually in HD, even shows shot in HD are often shown in Standard Def. Perhaps by the time they roll it out in February or whatever for dish SciFi will have upgraded the content.


the prime shows that a majority of viewers tune into Scifi for... are in HD...they also seem to be the ones most people on the boards are talking about.

I didn't really expect much from E* at CES...at least they gave a number...however, no date or channel names.

So looks like they are going to play "catch up" to D*'s 2007 numbers in all of 2008...but with no date, that could mean Dec 31, 2008. How many more channels will D* add by then? Bottom line...keep the race going...better for all of us...23 more channels this year _should_ include the ones i am looking for...i just hope they don't pad that number with more PPV's.


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## pparazorback

Dicx said:


> Sorry, how do you know what market you are in? Or number for that matter.


you can find that on this link here.


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## The Sandman

All of the positive spin in the world can't make those announcements better.


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## Vidfreek

I cant imagine they werent prepared for what Direct was going to do, they KNEW Direct was putting up a new satellite and now they've seen how many channels they've been adding (I would like to get the new MGM HD channel as well) yet they've done nothing and have said pretty much nothing, I would hope that all their plans will come out when they do the package deals and stuff starting in February, if not I'm unfortunately stuck with them for another year or so because I just signed up and I would probably switch back to my local cable provider to get USA and Scifi if I could since I can sign up or quit them at any time with no contracts, and once Dish got their act together I would probably go back, I'm just surprised how they are letting even little dinky cable providers pass them up....just a shame being that they are one of the top providers in the country


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## Ron Barry

Given the info that JohnH has provided on the uplink reports, I would be really surprised if Scifi or USA would not be part of the Feb 1 release. Though we all would love details on what new channels will start seeing on Feb 1st , at least we have a date and that is a lot more than what we had a week ago.


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## TBoneit

They did do something, They were prepared, They have satellites set to go. It is beyond Dishnetworks control that Sea Launch blew and messed up all kinds of launch dates for many. My Guess is that has caused some delays. I know I read about it here. I just can not find the articles.


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## texaswolf

TBoneit said:


> They did do something, They were prepared, They have satellites set to go. It is beyond Dishnetworks control that Sea Launch blew and messed up all kinds of launch dates for many. My Guess is that has caused some delays. I know I read about it here. I just can not find the articles.


yeah that is true...had D* been in the same situation, they wouldn't be where they are now, however....considering the launch delay, and D*s massive launches...if they have room for as many more as James stated on the current sat....they should have added some, to show they are trying to stay up...and doing what they can for the subs.


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## SThacker

bthessel said:


> Still no locals in HD for Cincinnati, this may push me over to D* this year. Really getting tired of messing with little antennas on top of the entertainment center. Plus the wife hates them.


I made the switch last year around October. Like you, I was tired of the antennas too. I am happy but I still have difficulty finding channels -- i guess after six years with Dish that will happen.

The only other annoyance is the pause when switching channels especially going from SD to HD


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## jrb531

TBoneit said:


> They did do something, They were prepared, They have satellites set to go. It is beyond Dishnetworks control that Sea Launch blew and messed up all kinds of launch dates for many. My Guess is that has caused some delays. I know I read about it here. I just can not find the articles.


How did D* get their birds up?

Yes it's true that the delay is not Dish's fault but they certainly sat on their hands far too long when they could have stayed ahead (or kept pace) with D*.

When D* ordered new sats it was not a secret. When D* ordered new launches it was not a secret.

What was Dish doing while this was happening?

Why charging us $20 for crappy HD because D* was worse. Now D* is better and we are supposed to be happy that Dish is not raising HD prices?

Wild!

-JB


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## Richard King

> Now D* is better


In YOUR opinion. For me Dish is better. I couldn't care less about a few channels that are already available in SD being available in HD, especially since I don't even watch those channels in SD. What system is better is very subjective. For me it's Dish, for you it may be Directv. To make the blanket statement that Directv is better is misleading at best.


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## DIRECTV-11

When ALL of the new birds go up (Including me), BOTH will be better.

Does it matter that much?

D11

:icon_hug:


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## Stewart Vernon

On the satellite launch front...

the delays DID effect DirecTV too.

Their one satellite was late in getting up. DirecTV had planned to launch 2 new birds last year, but one was delayed and the other was delayed into this year.

The delays affected Dish more because they were next in the queue... so it pushed all of their planned launches out into this year.

Had there been NO problems... DirecTV may have gotten 2 launches in last year, and Dish would have had at least 1 possibly 2 of their own. Then a whole bunch of what we have been talking about may very well have been rendered moot.

Dish and DirecTV aren't the only folks using those launch sites either... and keep in mind that some organizations are higher in the queue than satellite TV, for instance a government/military interest... so some shifts in scheduling affect everyone, while others may get to keep their dates as they move up in the queue. In other words, you don't necessarily stay at the top of the launch list until things are working... if the launch scheduled after you is a government or military deal, you can bet they keep their original date once problems are corrected, and you move behind them in the queue.


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## texaswolf

Richard King said:


> In YOUR opinion. For me Dish is better. I couldn't care less about a few channels that are already available in SD being available in HD, especially since I don't even watch those channels in SD. What system is better is very subjective. For me it's Dish, for you it may be Directv. To make the blanket statement that Directv is better is misleading at best.


your right it is subjective over all, but I think when it comes to HD programming request D*s line up would be in the majority of people...for now. Equipment wise of course is a different story.


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## GrumpyBear

texaswolf said:


> your right it is subjective over all, but I think when it comes to HD programming request D*s line up would be in the majority of people...for now. Equipment wise of course is a different story.


If it wasn't for equipment, I would have jumped when it was just about free to move over.


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> If it wasn't for equipment, I would have jumped when it was just about free to move over.


same here, if not for contract and the DVR...i would have too


----------



## brennt

DustoMan said:


> Well, if they do the top 100 markets, I'm still out of luck cause I'm in 127.


I'm in 13 and still no local HD.


----------



## James Long

Take a peek and see if you can identify the logos ...
(The new game!)

HDNET in dishHD Essentials and the $29.99 HD package are on this page. 

Photo taken at the CES press conference.


----------



## Ron Barry

I did my best to try and clean that up. Might have a better shot if you take a look at the picture with the whole slide. Definitely ugly but might answer some questions.


----------



## phrelin

Hope someone with better eyes than me or better information can tell us what is in the $29.99 package that's not in the $20.00 package,


----------



## James Long

On the left ...
TNT - ESPN - ESPN2 - A&E - NFL
HISTORY - DISCOVERY - HD THEATER - TLC - HDNET

On the right ...
HGTV - FOOD - TBS - MHD - BIG TEN* - Pay Per View*

AT200 adds
ANIMAL PLANET

AT250 adds
GOLF - VERSUS - SCIENCE - NAT GEO

Ultimate adds
15 Voom
UNIVERSAL - NBA TV - HD Movies - NHL

The $29.99 pack "Contains HD Channels only"
All HDs above - no premiums shown

I'm assuming the * on Big Ten is a restriction on market (since BTN was announced as being in AT100 only until February). The * on PPV is likely an "at additional cost per movie".

(Drat, I was hoping for a new logo ... but at least I can trust those at CES not to miss new logos on the charts.


----------



## Chris Freeland

phrelin said:


> Hope someone with better eyes than me or better information can tell us what is in the $29.99 package that's not in the $20.00 package,


I think the $29.99 package is a standalone package, it appears to be the same HD channels that are in the HD Ultimate pack, but it does not need to be added to an AT package, like the $10 and $20 packs do.


----------



## GrumpyBear

I have pretty good eyes, and I can't make heads or tails of that.
You should have used a PS3 to take the picture, it does everything.:lol:


----------



## Stewart Vernon

That sure makes it look like the HD-only package is coming back. Good news for people who want to save money and truly have no interest in SD channels at all.

There are still some SD channels that I watch that haven't gone HD yet (even if Dish added all the ones DirecTV has)... but if enough channels go HD this year and Dish gets their bandwidth up... that HD-only package could start to look very attractive to me.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> On the left ...
> TNT - ESPN - ESPN2 - A&E - NFL
> HISTORY - DISCOVERY - HD THEATER - TLC - HDNET
> 
> On the right ...
> HGTV - FOOD - TBS - MHD - BIG TEN* - Pay Per View*
> 
> AT200 adds
> ANIMAL PLANET
> 
> AT250 adds
> GOLF - VERSUS - SCIENCE - NAT GEO
> 
> Ultimate adds
> 15 Voom
> UNIVERSAL - NBA TV - HD Movies - NHL
> 
> The $29.99 pack "Contains HD Channels only"
> All HDs above - no premiums shown
> 
> I'm assuming the * on Big Ten is a restriction on market (since BTN was announced as being in AT100 only until February). The * on PPV is likely an "at additional cost per movie".
> 
> (Drat, I was hoping for a new logo ... but at least I can trust those at CES not to miss new logos on the charts.


Thanks for putting that up.

THANK GOD!! HD only pack!...now if they will allow us to just have the 4 (hopefully more later) premium HD's alone for a decent price...it would be perfect!

I hope they don't add price hikes as they add more HD channels to that pack.

Goodbye Sd's...well,um after sci fi is hD


----------



## texaswolf

GrumpyBear said:


> I have pretty good eyes, and I can't make heads or tails of that.
> You should have used a PS3 to take the picture, it does everything.:lol:


:lol: Priceless!

"it beats anything out there":lol:


----------



## mhowie

bthessel said:


> Still no locals in HD for Cincinnati, this may push me over to D* this year. Really getting tired of messing with little antennas on top of the entertainment center. Plus the wife hates them.


Same here, but with Indianapolis. Frickin' ridiculous.


----------



## nsps

This might be a dumb question, but once the satellites are launched, will we all have to re-aim our dishes?


----------



## James Long

In most cases, no. The new satellites are going to existing locations (110°, 129° and 61.5°). There will be customers who will need to get 129° instead of 61.5° and vice versa depending on where their locals end up.


----------



## Deke Rivers

for those that are so unhappy with Dish..why do you stay with them? They are not the only guys on the block . It seems to come on here every day and whine is so counterproductive and really a complete waste of time. I know if im unhappy with any type service i just move on to another provider of that service. Its great to have choices.


----------



## nataraj

James Long said:


> The $29.99 pack "Contains HD Channels only"
> All HDs above - no premiums shown


Hmmm ... the only SD I watch now is Comedy Central. If I get Stewart & Colbert online - I can go HD only ....


----------



## jrb531

Deke Rivers said:


> for those that are so unhappy with Dish..why do you stay with them? They are not the only guys on the block . It seems to come on here every day and whine is so counterproductive and really a complete waste of time. I know if im unhappy with any type service i just move on to another provider of that service. Its great to have choices.


Or you can stay and help to effect change with your voice and opinion.

Also if you have multiple choices and all are bad but to greater or lessor degrees then do we forfeit our rights to effect change?

When did this country turn into a bunch of "bend over and take it" company-line people?

I see alot of "I'm not happy about it either but what can we do" comments but we can do something. I guess the ultimate would be to just cancel but short of cancelling we could show a united front instead of downplaying unjust fees because they are either small and insignificant to some or "the other guy is worse" so it must be ok crowd.

-JB


----------



## eatonjb

yea.. but changing back and forth costs a lot of money .. do that every year and there might be termination fee's, hardware costs etc.

I think D* and E* will be pretty even on the front sHD's not that big yet. I mean all the D* HD's are stret-o-vision (not all but a lot) so when the channels catch up, they both will be carring them.


----------



## texaswolf

Deke Rivers said:


> for those that are so unhappy with Dish..why do you stay with them? They are not the only guys on the block . It seems to come on here every day and whine is so counterproductive and really a complete waste of time. I know if im unhappy with any type service i just move on to another provider of that service. Its great to have choices.


Keep in mind that the complaints and whining of customers doesn't go unnoticed. A lot of people have wanted an HD only pack, and HD premium only pack...and it looks like they are going that route....if nobody ever complained, companies wouldn't know what to improve on. Usually the same people complaining are doing the same to the company they are complaining about. Some are also under contract, and don't want to pay any extra money to get away from a company already not giving them what they want.

Not to mention the satellite and tech forums are places where people go to get help, talk about new stuff, debate, and even complain.


----------



## texaswolf

eatonjb said:


> yea.. but changing back and forth costs a lot of money .. do that every year and there might be termination fee's, hardware costs etc.
> 
> I think D* and E* will be pretty even on the front sHD's not that big yet. I mean all the D* HD's are stret-o-vision (not all but a lot) so when the channels catch up, they both will be carring them.


I don't know about a lot... the same stretchys we have they do, and a couple more, but not a lot...when E* gets them you'll be able to see.


----------



## TBoneit

jrb531 said:


> How did D* get their birds up?
> 
> Yes it's true that the delay is not Dish's fault but they certainly sat on their hands far too long when they could have stayed ahead (or kept pace) with D*.
> 
> When D* ordered new sats it was not a secret. When D* ordered new launches it was not a secret.
> 
> What was Dish doing while this was happening?
> 
> Why charging us $20 for crappy HD because D* was worse. Now D* is better and we are supposed to be happy that Dish is not raising HD prices?
> 
> Wild!
> 
> -JB


From here. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=113685&page=9
"AMC-14 is a second satellite recently announced for 61.5° that should be online by May 15th to replace E3. (IIRC, it's launch has been delayed for at least a year for other reasons, but no target location or task was given until recently.)

The Sea Launch delayed satellite is E-11, which is going to 110° to replace E8 and was supposed to be online December 15th."

So we can see that one satellite was supposed be be up a year ago and a second one was supposed to be online on December 15th."

It looks like DirecTV was lucky and got theirs up and Echostar had problems. If DirecTVs satellite had been the one destroyed in the sea launch failure then lots of people would be saying, "Gee they had bad luck" and nobody is saying that for Echostar.


----------



## Deke Rivers

jrb531 said:


> Or you can stay and help to effect change with your voice and opinion.
> 
> Also if you have multiple choices and all are bad but to greater or lessor degrees then do we forfeit our rights to effect change?
> 
> When did this country turn into a bunch of "bend over and take it" company-line people?
> 
> I see alot of "I'm not happy about it either but what can we do" comments but we can do something. I guess the ultimate would be to just cancel but short of cancelling we could show a united front instead of downplaying unjust fees because they are either small and insignificant to some or "the other guy is worse" so it must be ok crowd.
> 
> -JB


in not going anywhere and i am voicing my opinon as you ask thus my earlier post .
But case in point..i read a bunch of people complaining that Dish has been quiet about more HD offerings then minutes after they announce more they complaints start rolling in that they are too vague..
I have to seriously question people who think whining on here changes things..are the powers that be at Dish reading this forum and making changes dependent on the complaint factor here...like charlie checks this forum whiel drinking hsi mornign coffee and says.."Hey guys we better get that Sat up in orbit soon..the DBS talk guys are getting impatient!" 
Bottom line..all this redundant complaing about HD offerings and such remind me of the guy who screams a store cashier because a stores prices are too high


----------



## texaswolf

Deke Rivers said:


> in not going anywhere and i am voicing my opinon as you ask thus my earlier post .
> But case in point..i read a bunch of people complaining that Dish has been quiet about more HD offerings then minutes after they announce more they complaints start rolling in that they are too vague..
> I have to seriously question people who think whining on here changes things..are the powers that be at Dish reading this forum and making changes dependent on the complaint factor here...
> its like screaming at a store cashier because a stores prices are too high


Well if you read the reason people were complaining about "no news on new channels", then you would see that people were wanting to know what channels and when....the "soon" and "when they are available" responses have been what is causing people to complain...so of course when they say 100 channels in 2008....it's gonna make people wonder...1 month or 12? I think most people are more content now...with a little better description....but you have to take a look back at the last couple of months worth of wondering by them, and not just the last couple of days....if you did, you would understand the frustration.


----------



## Deke Rivers

texaswolf said:


> Well if you read the reason people were complaining about "no news on new channels", then you would see that people were wanting to know what channels and when....the "soon" and "when they are available" responses have been what is causing people to complain...so of course when they say 100 channels in 2008....it's gonna make people wonder...1 month or 12? I think most people are more content now...with a little better description....but you have to take a look back at the last couple of months worth of wondering by them, and not just the last couple of days....if you did, you would understand the frustration.


more content?? it sure dont seem like it
i dont know...it will happen when it happens..i dont understand the frustration or impatience..anyway i hope everyone gets through the waiting period ok 
:grin:


----------



## texaswolf

Deke Rivers said:


> more content?? it sure dont seem like it
> i dont know...it will happen when it happens..i dont understand the frustration or impatience..anyway i hope everyone gets through the waiting period ok
> :grin:


yep and some will agree with you...but most of us "HD nuts" who made the choice to go with the "leader in HD" see that channels are available in HD at other providers, so we would like to have them, but held under contract...but like i said...looks like they are starting to get the ball rolling...hopefully the next month will tell us.


----------



## jrb531

Speaking only for myself I am much more understanding when I feel a company is being open and honest with me. No I do not want trade secrets *smiles* but if the HD answer is "we're constrained by space issues until the new sat goes up but we hope to have 1-2 new HD channels up by summer after we move some existing channels" yadda yadda would be just fine for me.

Being a little more open does not mean they have to commit to a set date and time.

The entire 501/508/510 Name Based Recording comes to mind. They made a firm promise and then kept breaking it. All they had to do was to tell us why it was taking so long or at least tell us something besides the old... we're testing it.... for how many years?

(get ready to laugh at me)

One of the reasons I came to Dish years and years ago was because I liked the "perception" that they were more down to earth and open with their customers. Whether this perception was a planned charade or not is besides the point. Those chats that we all make fun of now gave some people the perception that Dish was a local "mom and pop" type company that was trying to make a buck but being fair, open and honest with their customers. Many people stayed with them due to this and there was alot of loyalty built up over the years.

Things seem to be different these days. Perhaps the perception has changed and it's business as usual behind the scenes but I certainly do feel like Dish is alot more careful with telling us anything and their CSR's (as others) are on average the worst I have ever dealt with in any industry aside from cable 

I do not channel count. I never did as I prefer quality over quantity and what is a shame is that "quality-wise" the Voom channels are pretty darn good (as compared to other Dish HD channels) but content is spotty at best.

This is a shame because Voom "could" be a bright spot and selling point for Dish but instead it seems to be involved in a cash crunch and showing less and less content repeated... kind of like a semi-free version of PPV.

-JB


----------



## James Long

jrb531 said:


> SThe entire 501/508/510 Name Based Recording comes to mind. They made a firm promise and then kept breaking it.


And now they take the opposite tact ... make no specific promises. And people still complain!



> This is a shame because Voom "could" be a bright spot and selling point for Dish but instead it seems to be involved in a cash crunch and showing less and less content repeated... kind of like a semi-free version of PPV.


I wish DISH had more control over Voom ... their contract states that Rainbow must continue to invest in improving the Voom content but it ends there. DISH is just another distribution customer ... even though for a long time they were the only customer.


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> And now they take the opposite tact ... make no specific promises. And people still complain!


How about _no promises_, but info like "We hope to have SciFi and USA HD channels by (enter goal here) after we work out the technical bugs."

Then maybe a followup like "Well, unfortunately we still have a problem with (the uplink or satellite signal)."

Not a news release to the press, but info with a disclaimer like "We aren't making promises."


----------



## jpeckinp

James Long said:


> In most cases, no. The new satellites are going to existing locations (110°, 129° and 61.5°). There will be customers who will need to get 129° instead of 61.5° and vice versa depending on where their locals end up.


That is what scares me the most. I have to get my locals from 129 because I have no way to even see 61.5 from my location, the lowest in the east I can go is 101 and that is why I switched from D*.


----------



## Henry

texaswolf said:


> ....but you have to take a look back at the last couple of months worth of wondering by them, and not just the last couple of days....if you did, you would understand the frustration.


Indeed!

And I guess we learned a few unpleasant things along the way... that CC's are Infomercials and that E* prefers silence in the face of rampant sub speculation.

And I also think we learned that in spite of that, the vast majority of us will stay put and wait it out. There's still some faith left in us.


----------



## peano

James Long said:


> .The $29.99 pack "Contains HD Channels only"
> All HDs above - no premiums shown


Any word on the charge to add the premiums in HD?


----------



## Stewart Vernon

peano said:


> Any word on the charge to add the premiums in HD?


I sincerely doubt this will ever be an option. HBO, for example, wants you to pay for HBO. If you pay for HBO then you get all HD available for HBO (right now that's one channel). I highly doubt HBO and other premiums will ever have a cheaper price for HD-only.


----------



## James Long

phrelin said:


> How about _no promises_, but info like "We hope to have SciFi and USA HD channels by (enter goal here) after we work out the technical bugs."


E* does not discuss channels under negotiation (well, unless they are forced to - such as the Viacom, Lifetime and other deals where they had to explain losing channels to their customers).


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> I sincerely doubt this will ever be an option. HBO, for example, wants you to pay for HBO. If you pay for HBO then you get all HD available for HBO (right now that's one channel). I highly doubt HBO and other premiums will ever have a cheaper price for HD-only.


I thought this was something that was being worked on as an option?

Maybe i heard wrong?


----------



## Richard King

HDMe said:


> I sincerely doubt this will ever be an option. HBO, for example, wants you to pay for HBO. If you pay for HBO then you get all HD available for HBO (right now that's one channel). I highly doubt HBO and other premiums will ever have a cheaper price for HD-only.


I also suspect that in the next few years we will gradually see the SD feeds for HBO, etc. disappear and be replaced with all HD feeds.


----------



## peano

HDMe said:


> I sincerely doubt this will ever be an option. HBO, for example, wants you to pay for HBO. If you pay for HBO then you get all HD available for HBO (right now that's one channel). I highly doubt HBO and other premiums will ever have a cheaper price for HD-only.


Thats fine. I just want to have the $29.99 HD package and add the SD premiums so I get the HD versions. I rarely watch anything SD anymore.

Hopefully they will allow this.


----------



## DP1

HDMe said:


> I sincerely doubt this will ever be an option. HBO, for example, wants you to pay for HBO. If you pay for HBO then you get all HD available for HBO (right now that's one channel). I highly doubt HBO and other premiums will ever have a cheaper price for HD-only.


Exactly. People on the net have been hoping that the HD channel would be made available seperately ever since HBO offered the HD channel back in 98-99.

Actually the longer it's gone on without doing that, the less likely it's ever going to happen cause as Richards says, what'll happen instead is that all the channels in the package will just go HD.

The bottomline is the HBO package costs what it costs and include what it includes be it in SD or HD.

If HBO had a mind to cut some people some slack on the monthly price by breaking some channels away from the package, they could've always done that strictly within the SD realm.

I dont need a dozen channels of HBO for 12.00 a month. Just give me HBO East and thats it.. 1 channel.. and I'll pay you 7.00 a month. Yeah, nice try, Dan.


----------



## texaswolf

I can see E* doing it if they dont plan on adding the other premiums in HD this year...if they plan on adding them, they wont. Whether or not they offer us a deal, wont matter to the premiums, they pay them whatever price they agreed on...what E* charges us will make/lose them money. But will they eat a little loss to keep subs happy, for not having all the premiums HD...Keep in mind all the subs already getting the Cinemax penny deal....


----------



## TBoneit

James Long said:


> E* does not discuss channels under negotiation (well, unless they are forced to - such as the Viacom, Lifetime and other deals where they had to explain losing channels to their customers).


Not to mention if they announce that we are negotiating for channel xyz and will have it available on Feb 1, 2008 then that gives the channel extra leverage to try for a higher fee so it can go live to meet that promised date.

If E* said we hope to have it by Feb 1, 2008 if negotiations go well and they went bad, then all most people would remember is that they said we'd have it and we don't.

They are damned if they announce specifics and damned if they don't. a true lose, lose situation.


----------



## James Long

peano said:


> Thats fine. I just want to have the $29.99 HD package and add the SD premiums so I get the HD versions. I rarely watch anything SD anymore.
> 
> Hopefully they will allow this.


I expect they will. They may charge the full price ($12.99-$14.99 per service per month) or have some discount plan (such as under DVRAdvantage where HBO alone is $12 and any combination including other premiums is $10 per package).

I do not expect a special "HD Only" premium package where you would get just the HDs for any less that one pays for the full premium package including SDs. I expect that the premium providers would charge E* the same for delivering just the HDs ... so the SDs might as well be there.


----------



## texaswolf

TBoneit said:


> Not to mention if they announce that we are negotiating for channel xyz and will have it available on Feb 1, 2008 then that gives the channel extra leverage to try for a higher fee so it can go live to meet that promised date.
> 
> If E* said we hope to have it by Feb 1, 2008 if negotiations go well and they went bad, then all most people would remember is that they said we'd have it and we don't.
> 
> They are damned if they announce specifics and damned if they don't. a true lose, lose situation.


if they say they hope to have a channel up by a certain date, i would think that the contract is done, and by "hope" they are talking about the technical part of getting it lit up by then.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> if they say they hope to have a channel up by a certain date, i would think that the contract is done, and by "hope" they are talking about the technical part of getting it lit up by then.


Exactly. If you see a channel officially announced then the deal is done ... if not, don't expect that there was a deal.


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> I expect they will. They may charge the full price ($12.99-$14.99 per service per month) or have some discount plan (such as under DVRAdvantage where HBO alone is $12 and any combination including other premiums is $10 per package).
> 
> I do not expect a special "HD Only" premium package where you would get just the HDs for any less that one pays for the full premium package including SDs. I expect that the premium providers would charge E* the same for delivering just the HDs ... so the SDs might as well be there.


Any package that would allow people to actually save money will never happen IMHO.

While I would cheer this on as being the right thing for Dish to do I cannot see them doing this because then a ton of subscribers could drop SD and save money.

If I could drop all SD and keep HD for $29.95 + $9.95 for the other HD channels I would do it in a heartbeat and save a ton of money. I suspect "many" other would do the very same and that would do what for Dish's revenue?

Let's just save I'm hopefull but not holding my breathe 

-JB


----------



## James Long

jrb531 said:


> f I could drop all SD and keep HD for $29.95 + $9.95 for the other HD channels I would do it in a heartbeat and save a ton of money. I suspect "many" other would do the very same and that would do what for Dish's revenue?


It would have little effect on their revenue ... it is the premium package providers that hold the strings here. Do you really believe E* could get JUST the HD portion of a programmer's package for a price that would allow them to sell it for $2-$2.50? What happens when additional channels in a package go HD?

It seems mean to not let E* at least break even on their offerings.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

jrb531 said:


> If I could drop all SD and keep HD for $29.95 + $9.95 for the other HD channels I would do it in a heartbeat and save a ton of money. I suspect "many" other would do the very same and that would do what for Dish's revenue?


If I could buy the Everything Pack for $5 then I would save even more money!

Sadly, these kinds of "wish" statements don't end up based in reality... Yes, we would all save money if we could decide what we want to pay for anything and everything... but we can't just pull prices out of thin air.

I only want to pay $1 for my Whopper + fries + drink value meal. I also only want to pay 50 cents per gallon for gasoline, so I can save money.



But seriously... the premium pricing to some extent is out of Dish's hands... HBO, and others, would never allow their HD-only to be sold at a reduced cost. I would jump on a cheap package that only contained HD premiums... but even if it did happen, it would be short-lived once the rest of those channels go HD then we'd be right back at the $12-$15 premium package price.

Also, as suggested by another poster... IF that kind of thinking was in HBO's mindset... then it would already be possible to do it today. HBO has cost $12+ for years now, and they slowly grew the package to a dozen channels... and they never gave an option to just take the original HBO (east or west) for reduced cost.


----------



## DP1

texaswolf said:


> I can see E* doing it if they dont plan on adding the other premiums in HD this year...if they plan on adding them, they wont. Whether or not they offer us a deal, wont matter to the premiums, they pay them whatever price they agreed on...what E* charges us will make/lose them money. But will they eat a little loss to keep subs happy, for not having all the premiums HD...Keep in mind all the subs already getting the Cinemax penny deal....


Well yeah.. if E* just wants to start "giving away" the movie channels by eating the costs themselves, they could do that. Like for anyone who ever thought Cinemax wasnt worth 2 cents.. well, now it's only 1 cent... so to speak.

Buts thats a different type of thing compared to offering just HBO HD, SHO HD, Starz HD and Cinemax HD as say a 9.95 "HD Movie Package". Which is what people keep hoping for. Cause Charlie would have to eat a hell of a lot if he did that.


----------



## ASN21

Attached below. Pretty interesting. I think I am going to go ahead and downgrade when possible.


----------



## dclaryjr

ASN21 said:


> Attached below. Pretty interesting. I think I am going to go ahead and downgrade when possible.


No chance here--my wife watches Equator and RAVE too much.


----------



## bartendress

ASN21 said:


> Attached below. Pretty interesting. I think I am going to go ahead and downgrade when possible.


I like the Voom channels, but I'm not compelled to hang onto them if the only other channels of interest (to me) are UniversalHD and HDNet Movies....

Very interesting.


----------



## texaswolf

bartendress said:


> I like the Voom channels, but I'm not compelled to hang onto them if the only other channels of interest (to me) are UniversalHD and HDNet Movies....
> 
> Very interesting.


yeah those last 4 on the ultimate are the killer...I understand why they are in there, because they have no sd equivalent, but i feel E* could have put the 4 remaining non-voom channels into the Essential package, and left the VOOM's as there own addition...there is a clear division, of people who like them and people who don't...those 4 others they put with them just became a $10 anchor for me. Hopefully they will get enough flak to change it up.


----------



## James Long

The suspense is killing me.  From the press release ...


> DISH Network(r) (NasdaqGS: DISH - News) today announced plans to increase its national HD channel count from 76 to 100 in 2008.


So ... what 24 channels will be added this year?


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> The suspense is killing me.  From the press release ...
> So ... what 24 channels will be added this year?


what was the number you were projecting for the end of jan-early feb?


----------



## James Long

I was hoping for a dozen (since there is room for about that many) but the CES announcement was not as encouraging as I expected (no real channel announcements and the announced packages simply listed current channels with a "more to come in 2008" comment).

Disappointed but not suicidal. Hopefully E* will open a couple of new channels up.


----------



## jrb531

texaswolf said:


> yeah those last 4 on the ultimate are the killer...I understand why they are in there, because they have no sd equivalent, but i feel E* could have put the 4 remaining non-voom channels into the Essential package, and left the VOOM's as there own addition...there is a clear division, of people who like them and people who don't...those 4 others they put with them just became a $10 anchor for me. Hopefully they will get enough flak to change it up.


Yeah and they could do that with their base packages also.

If only this "one" channel was in AT100 then I could drop AT200... or
If only these "two" channels were in AT200 then I could drop AT250

There is a good reason a handfull of "must have" channels are spread throughout each package.... Dish wants to force us to take more than we really want.

This is why a modified form of ala-cart is needed. Please keep the packages for discounts but why not allow us to add 1-2 extra single channels to any package for a few bucks each?

I'll tell you why.... because Dish knows they can get an extra $10 out of "most" people and they make more money that way. Fair? What's fair in business?

Same goes for these new HD packages. If they wanted fair they would make each HD package separate. IE you could get either or and not have to take the first one to get the second.

Say I only like the Voom package but do not care about the HD versions. Why not allow me to just take Voom?

Choice is the mortal enemy of Pay TV! They know full well that if we had a choice many of us would drop the crap we do not watch so every package is studied and packaged to eliminate choice.

So why did Dish even split up the $20 overpriced HD package? Each... D* forced them to do something so they spilt it up but package it in a way to maximize the number of people who, in the end, will have to pay the very same $20 that we did before but now "claim" that they are giving us so much choice.

Dish calls this Choice????

I suspect that soon they will come out with a $5 package that includes just the shopping channels and then they can advertise how you can get Dish Network for only $5 

-JB


----------



## FTA Michael

At the press conference Charlie was careful to point out that the 100 figure assumes that there will be that many national HD channels worth broadcasting by the end of the year.


----------



## lparsons21

James Long said:


> I was hoping for a dozen (since there is room for about that many) but the CES announcement was not as encouraging as I expected (no real channel announcements and the announced packages simply listed current channels with a "more to come in 2008" comment).
> 
> Disappointed but not suicidal. Hopefully E* will open a couple of new channels up.


I would be placated by just 2 - SciFi and USA.

And it is very frustrating that they stay so vague about what they are going to do and when they are going to actually do it.

If DirecTV had an OTA HD tuner in their HDDVR ( or 2, like they originally did!) right now, I would switch in a heartbeat.


----------



## jrb531

FTA Michael said:


> worth broadcasting by the end of the year.


ROTFLMAO!

What an out!

There may not be that number of channels available but even "if" there are... if Dish does not feel that they are worth broadcasting they have the perfect out.

Sure D* has a ton more HD but "we" feel that they suck so they don't count 

Why not just advertise 10,000 new HD channels this year with that form of out?

Hey... I'm with them that they need not pick up the "Basket Weaving Channel" now in HD *smiles* but if they felt that TNT in stretch-o-vision is "worth broadcasting" then some of these other channels qualify right now!

How many times I see something I like and get ready to record it... then I see it's on TNT and skip it because the quality will be horrible and it will most likely be stretched.

Does anyone these days consider quality just as important or moreso than the channel counters?

Say what you will about Voom (and yes I think they could be much better) but almost anything on Voom looks pretty darn good even if it's the same repeat or some stupid boring program.

When people come over and I want to show them how impressive HD is I almost always show them some of the voom channels. The concerts on Rave (the first 100 times you see the same program LOL) are VERY impressive.

Show them TNT or one of the other stretch-o-vision channels and you might just delay their upgrading to HD for another decade 

-JB


----------



## Artwood

Anyone remember the song "Promises, Promises"?

I hope DISH is not still singing it come the 4th of July!


----------



## theoak

I have the AT100 package. To be honest I am not impressed with the $10 HD package as it stands now. I get ABC HD, CBS HD, CW HD, NBC HD, FOX HD and PBS HD OTA. I am happy with that for now. 

My only hang up is that I currently have no way of recording OTA HD. I am hoping that come summer that there will be an affordable ($100ish) recorder out there that can record in the OTA HD channel's original format. Right now, all of the recorders that I have run across make you convert to 480i somehow, or are in the $300 range. For $300, I would sooner record in 480i - looks terrible, but at least I get the program. 

This is the only reason why I would go Dish HD is for the 612/622/722 recording HD abilities. If the HD channel line up was more attractive the 18 month commitment and the whole DVR fee I might be able to over look. For me though, it is not there yet ...


----------



## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> ROTFLMAO!
> 
> When people come over and I want to show them how impressive HD is I almost always show them some of the voom channels. The concerts on Rave (the first 100 times you see the same program LOL) are VERY impressive.
> 
> -JB


yeah...I'd rather not pay $20/month for and HD demo...


----------



## Vidfreek

theoak said:


> I have the AT100 package. To be honest I am not impressed with the $10 HD package as it stands now. I get ABC HD, CBS HD, CW HD, NBC HD, FOX HD and PBS HD OTA. I am happy with that for now.
> 
> My only hang up is that I currently have no way of recording OTA HD. I am hoping that come summer that there will be an affordable ($100ish) recorder out there that can record in the OTA HD channel's original format. Right now, all of the recorders that I have run across make you convert to 480i somehow, or are in the $300 range. For $300, I would sooner record in 480i - looks terrible, but at least I get the program.
> 
> This is the only reason why I would go Dish HD is for the 612/622/722 recording HD abilities. If the HD channel line up was more attractive the 18 month commitment and the whole DVR fee I might be able to over look. For me though, it is not there yet ...


For you its not there yet? Its only missing a few channels that the others have just added, they offer the best DVR on the market and it has the VOOM channels (some dont care but they are there and no one else has them) and its not there yet? I'm not really sure what you would find more attractive here


----------



## texaswolf

Vidfreek said:


> For you its not there yet? Its only missing a few channels that the others have just added,


A few missing = about 18.....and just added = about 3-4 months ago

that aside...once they start adding them...quite a few should be in the AT100...i would think.


----------



## exegesis48

Isn't the HD enabler fee like $7 anyway? Why not just go ahead and pay the $10 and get the HD version of your AT package? I really can't understand/justify the enabler fee, so at least I will feel like I am getting something for my money with the new packages. Perfect timing for me as well, seeing as my 10 months of free HD run out this month (yes i know, it's actually $10 standard credit + $10 hi-def credit, but it works out to cover the additional $20 that the hi-def would be anyway).


----------



## FogCutter

I've come to the conclusion that the HD charges are better spent on Netflix with their growing HD-DVD and BluRay selections. After enduring several weeks of zip HD programming I cared to watch I am getting tired. Now it looks like we have months of waiting ahead of us for any real improvements. And Direct doesn't seem to be a real answer either. 

Remember the external HD thing? That went on forever. 

But maybe this is a spiritual test of endurance, and those who endure will be greatly rewarded in the end. 

Probably not, at least the reward part.


----------



## tomcrown1

FogCutter said:


> I've come to the conclusion that the HD charges are better spent on Netflix with their growing HD-DVD and BluRay selections. After enduring several weeks of zip HD programming I cared to watch I am getting tired. Now it looks like we have months of waiting ahead of us for any real improvements. And Direct doesn't seem to be a real answer either.
> 
> Remember the external HD thing? That went on forever.
> 
> But maybe this is a spiritual test of endurance, and those who endure will be greatly rewarded in the end.
> 
> Probably not, at least the reward part.


Over at that other forum they are talking about 3 hd packs with the all permium package at $25.00 which will include HBO STARS AND SHOWTIME.

Is this rumor or fact???


----------



## RAD

FogCutter said:


> I've come to the conclusion that the HD charges are better spent on Netflix with their growing HD-DVD and BluRay selections.


Good luck with that. I have 11 BD or HD DVD's in my Netflix queue, they are either in "Long Wait" or "Very Long Wait" with the majority of them in VLW.


----------



## texaswolf

tomcrown1 said:


> Over at that other forum they are talking about 3 hd packs with the all permium package at $25.00 which will include HBO STARS AND SHOWTIME.
> 
> Is this rumor or fact???


Right now it is just a rumor...but i believe the person who brought it up had heard something from a little birdie about it...just remains to be seen....


----------



## snowcat

I am thinking about downgrading to the $10 a month HD package, but I am still only a little over halfway in my $10 per month rebate for HD. Do you think that I can downsize and still get my rebate? If not, there is no reason to downsize until the rebate is over with.


----------



## texaswolf

snowcat said:


> I am thinking about downgrading to the $10 a month HD package, but I am still only a little over halfway in my $10 per month rebate for HD. Do you think that I can downsize and still get my rebate? If not, there is no reason to downsize until the rebate is over with.


I don't see any reason why you couldn't, since the new HD line up is a package and not another promo...they could surprise you...but you should be fine to do it. Please let us know if you can't...would be a nice heads up.


----------



## Jim5506

I would fear that downgrading would cancel the rebate.

Read the fine print, if you can find it.


----------



## goldbear

theoak said:


> I have the AT100 package. To be honest I am not impressed with the $10 HD package as it stands now. I get ABC HD, CBS HD, CW HD, NBC HD, FOX HD and PBS HD OTA. I am happy with that for now.
> 
> My only hang up is that I currently have no way of recording OTA HD. I am hoping that come summer that there will be an affordable ($100ish) recorder out there that can record in the OTA HD channel's original format. Right now, all of the recorders that I have run across make you convert to 480i somehow, or are in the $300 range. For $300, I would sooner record in 480i - looks terrible, but at least I get the program.
> 
> This is the only reason why I would go Dish HD is for the 612/622/722 recording HD abilities. If the HD channel line up was more attractive the 18 month commitment and the whole DVR fee I might be able to over look. For me though, it is not there yet ...


does the new OTA recorder from dish do HD ?? of course don't know what the cost will be yet??? It may solve your situation.


----------



## theoak

goldbear said:


> does the new OTA recorder from dish do HD ?? of course don't know what the cost will be yet??? It may solve your situation.


I think a large part of my hang up is the "DVR Fee" for the 612/622/722. I can purchase CD/DVD/VCR recorders to my heart's content and not have to pay a dime. I just might have to swallow my pride though and bite the bullet. But not today ... 

Now the new TR-50 sounds real nice and I will definitely be eying that guy as new information becomes available and when it finally comes out.


----------



## FogCutter

RAD said:


> Good luck with that. I have 11 BD or HD DVD's in my Netflix queue, they are either in "Long Wait" or "Very Long Wait" with the majority of them in VLW.


I've had good luck so far, no more than a few days between hits. It's nice to watch these discs then decide whether to buy or not. I don't get to the movies often so the first time I see many films is in my theater room.

I heard/read/imagined maybe that Dish will start making changes to the HD lineup as soon as Feb 1. Any idea what will happen then?


----------



## dbconsultant

theoak said:


> I think a large part of my hang up is the "DVR Fee" for the 612/622/722. I can purchase CD/DVD/VCR recorders to my heart's content and not have to pay a dime. I just might have to swallow my pride though and bite the bullet. But not today ...
> 
> Now the new TR-50 sounds real nice and I will definitely be eying that guy as new information becomes available and when it finally comes out.


The TR-50 sounds like it would go nicely in my RV! Ah, all the comforts of home while travelling!!!


----------



## snowcat

texaswolf said:


> I don't see any reason why you couldn't, since the new HD line up is a package and not another promo...they could surprise you...but you should be fine to do it. Please let us know if you can't...would be a nice heads up.


That's a good point. When February rolls around, I will talk to customer support about it.


----------



## theoak

theoak said:


> I think a large part of my hang up is the "DVR Fee" for the 612/622/722. I can purchase CD/DVD/VCR recorders to my heart's content and not have to pay a dime. I just might have to swallow my pride though and bite the bullet. But not today ...
> 
> Now the new TR-50 sounds real nice and I will definitely be eying that guy as new information becomes available and when it finally comes out.


Well, I guess today was the day ...

Upgraded to a 722 (from a 301) and also enrolled in the $39.99 DVR Advantage from just a basic AT100. With the DVRA I get locals and the DVR fee bundled in. Mind you I get locals really good OTA but I get more bang for my buck. For example:

32.99 (AT100 After Feb)
5.98 (DVR Fee)
38.97 (Total)

For another $1 I get locals included using DVRA. They come Monday ...

Also did the DishHD deal. Hopefully by the time I actually have to start paying for HD in 6 months, Dish will have a few more channels up there.


----------



## TBoneit

Forget it. Changed my mind. Not a new thing either.


----------



## dustinw82

Deke Rivers said:


> for those that are so unhappy with Dish..why do you stay with them? They are not the only guys on the block . It seems to come on here every day and whine is so counterproductive and really a complete waste of time. I know if im unhappy with any type service i just move on to another provider of that service. Its great to have choices.


The problem is, that the "other provider's" HD DVR is a total piece of crap.


----------



## RAD

dustinw82 said:


> The problem is, that the "other provider's" HD DVR is a total piece of crap.


Not going there since not worth it. But does it matter if you have the worlds best DVR when you can't use it to record channels you want in HD because your provider doesn't carry them, and the one's that they do are downrezzed/bit starved


----------



## James Long

So you went there anyways ... 

Yeah, DirecTV has more upconverted SD than any other HD provider. 
And DISH's flagship DVR has DLB.

I'm sure you can find an open thread in the General Satellite forum if you want to to continue ...


----------



## texaswolf

dustinw82 said:


> The problem is, that the "other provider's" HD DVR is a total piece of crap.


matter of opinion:

1. you can either sit there and yell at the piece of crap HD DVR...while enjoying channels in HD and better looking SD, that no other provider has, or:

2. you can sit there and yell at not having shows in HD, just crappy SD....while enjoying what you do have and your great DVR and external hard drive options.

i would be in the number 2 category...for now.


----------



## ebaltz

Didn't I hear Direct TV promising 100 channels by year end (2007). Now their commercials boast "85 HD channels". So they just admitted they totally couldn't deliver what they promised again. At least Dish hasn't done that so far, that I know of.


----------



## James Long

Only DirecTV's first promise - and accept it as a typo if you can - promised 100 channels or a "100 channel HD package". Most of the time D* promised "up to 100" ... and that has been met. With padding, it has been exceeded.

(Which is really a topic for another thread.)


----------



## BopMan

Hopefully, I'll stay on topic... but I'm sure this has been ask before.

Does anyone know if E* has listed any channels/schedule of when the new channels (SPEED) will be up and running?

I've been putting off upgrading or moving on since my 6000 went out about 8 weeks ago and I got a neeeeed for SPEEEEEED.


----------



## HobbyTalk

Speed - No


----------



## James Long

E* has not announced ANY specific dates for ANY specific channels.
For national channels "by the end of 2008" is the closest they come to a date.
For locals they are expected to be released throughout the year. No order given.

That doesn't mean that there will be no new HD until Dec 31st, but there is no promise listing or schedule put out by DISH of any earlier releases. (No, I don't expect they will wait that long).


----------



## tomcrown1

BopMan said:


> Hopefully, I'll stay on topic... but I'm sure this has been ask before.
> 
> Does anyone know if E* has listed any channels/schedule of when the new channels (SPEED) will be up and running?
> 
> I've been putting off upgrading or moving on since my 6000 went out about 8 weeks ago and I got a neeeeed for SPEEEEEED.


Dumb question: I thought speed was illegal. If you speed in your car you get a moving violation. If you take speed you go to Jail. So is speed legal??


----------



## BopMan

tomcrown1 said:


> Dumb question: I thought speed was illegal. If you speed in your car you get a moving violation. If you take speed you go to Jail. So is speed legal??


:lol: I guess not! Based on F1 fans and E* management. If I can't get it from E*, I'll have to get it someplace else&#8230; if you know what I mean.


----------



## BopMan

James Long said:


> E* has not announced ANY specific dates for ANY specific channels.
> For national channels "by the end of 2008" is the closest they come to a date.
> For locals they are expected to be released throughout the year. No order given.
> 
> That doesn't mean that there will be no new HD until Dec 31st, but there is no promise listing or schedule put out by DISH of any earlier releases. (No, I don't expect they will wait that long).


Saying nothing I guess is better than making promises they can't keep, but this policy has got to be costing them customers. A couple of months ago I almost moved to D* (bought a HR20 & H20 but didn't activate) but I started reading so many bad things about their DVR I decided to wait until after CES. CES has come and gone and I know nothing more than I did two months ago. Oh well&#8230; I guess I'll just keep reading, and wait for the levy to break.


----------



## rey_1178

you're right bopman they are losing customers as we speak. they need to put a stop to the bleeding by just throwing a bone to the customers. add a few channels,i mean come on, you know? come on. just come on


----------



## BopMan

rey_1178 said:


> you're right bopman they are losing customers as we speak. they need to put a stop to the bleeding by just throwing a bone to the customers. add a few channels,i mean come on, you know? come on. just come on


Come on, come on, come on, come on now

Didn't I make you feel, oh E*, like you were the only one
E* didn't I give you nearly everything that a customer possibly can
E* you know that I did
Cos each time I tell myself that I, I think I've had enough
Oh, I am gonna show you E*, that a customer can be tough

I want you to come on, come on, come on, come on
And take it, take another customer cancelation now E*...

Not trying to be down on E* but I think your commits fit the tune. I'm sure E* is working hard to provide the best product they can, but they need to do something now, for the subs, to stop the bleeding.


----------



## jsunb198

Does anyone know when Dish Network will offer the Speed Channel in HD???

Thanks


----------



## James Long

rey_1178 said:


> you're right bopman they are losing customers as we speak. they need to put a stop to the bleeding by just throwing a bone to the customers. add a few channels,i mean come on, you know? come on. just come on


DISH loses customers every quarter. They also gain customers every quarter. Through the end of 3Q 2007 (Sept 30th) DISH was still adding more customers than left. Numbers for 4Q 2007 and the year will be available in about six weeks.


----------



## HD is Life

Losing and gaining customers now is becoming more and more critical to all of the companies if the recent television purchasing reports are to be believed.

Over half of the tvs being purchased now are flat panel HD, and that percentage is going up for 2008. Many are first time HD people, and will be looking for the best choice of provider. People switching now will be lost to their current company for over 2 years - yes, long past any comittment period as people don't really change all that often.

There is a serious battle to attract new HD customers being waged right now - there is a constant bombardment of ads from cable, telephone providers, as well as the satellite companies for these new HD converts because the stakes are so high.

HD customers spend the most and churn the least - so to get them in-house now is huge to all of them. It would really not be a very good time to be having numbers that are down-trending. 

The market is changing, what happened 6-9 months ago is becoming less and less relevant.


----------



## James Long

All DISH (or any other provider) needs to do is impress the unwashed masses.
They don't have to impress us.

The current problems with the economy favor a company who can come in as a low price leader. DISH has the least expensive packages out there and will offer more HD for less dollars for the budget careful buyer. There are people who can buy it all ... that's great. But someone needs to serve those who can't afford it all.

(Ever see the "Feed the Pig" commercials? No, it's not talking about feeding the cable pig.)


----------



## HD is Life

James Long said:


> All DISH (or any other provider) needs to do is impress the unwashed masses.
> They don't have to impress us.
> 
> The current problems with the economy favor a company who can come in as a low price leader. DISH has the least expensive packages out there and will offer more HD for less dollars for the budget careful buyer. There are people who can buy it all ... that's great. But someone needs to serve those who can't afford it all.
> 
> (Ever see the "Feed the Pig" commercials? No, it's not talking about feeding the cable pig.)


No, I don't remember the ad, is it archived somewhere to view?

And I agree with your opening sentence that people need to be impressed. Leads me back to my thinking of how much more effective DIRECTV has been in its marketing and in the current crop of commercials. I suppose we will all find out who is gaining and who is losing in the next few weeks though.


----------



## James Long

HD is Life said:


> No, I don't remember the ad, is it archived somewhere to view?


The most appropriate in the series:







> I suppose we will all find out who is gaining and who is losing in the next few weeks though.


You may have missed the point. BOTH companies gained, BOTH companies lost.
On balance I suspect BOTH companies netted additions (subscriber count).


----------



## texaswolf

ebaltz said:


> Didn't I hear Direct TV promising 100 channels by year end (2007). Now their commercials boast "85 HD channels". So they just admitted they totally couldn't deliver what they promised again. At least Dish hasn't done that so far, that I know of.


Difference is, you don't hear D* subs complaining like you do E* subs, because they are enjoying 18 more HD channels than E*, many of which are the subject of complaints here....may not have hit 100, but they delivered the channels their subs wanted the most...not saying that E* wont do that this year, just saying that it's not like D* has let down their subs by not hitting "100"...which ever way it was advertised.


----------



## HobbyTalk

They complained for 2 years before that and D* didn't go out of business.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

texaswolf said:


> Difference is, you don't hear D* subs complaining like you do E* subs, because they are enjoying 18 more HD channels than E*, many of which are the subject of complaints here....may not have hit 100, but they delivered the channels their subs wanted the most...not saying that E* wont do that this year, just saying that it's not like D* has let down their subs by not hitting "100"...which ever way it was advertised.


As HobbyTalk said... DirecTV customers complained before they added new channels last year...and DirecTV survived being behind for well over a year, almost 2 full years of lagging Dish in HD channels.

Meanwhile, just how many Dish customers are complaining? The only Dish customers I see complaining are a handful on this and Satellite Guys. To be blunt, even if we all complained, we are a small minority of Dish subscribers... heck, we aren't even a majority of their HD customers based on the numbers floated around for their HD customer totals... so in the grand scheme of things, I'm really not seeing that much complaining.

On a related, but different, note... I still see folks in the DirecTV forums complaining about some channels that haven't been added yet... or content on the existing channels... so it isn't like those folks stopped complaining, they just changed the complaint!


----------



## texaswolf

HDMe said:


> As HobbyTalk said... DirecTV customers complained before they added new channels last year...and DirecTV survived being behind for well over a year, almost 2 full years of lagging Dish in HD channels.
> 
> Meanwhile, just how many Dish customers are complaining? The only Dish customers I see complaining are a handful on this and Satellite Guys. To be blunt, even if we all complained, we are a small minority of Dish subscribers... heck, we aren't even a majority of their HD customers based on the numbers floated around for their HD customer totals... so in the grand scheme of things, I'm really not seeing that much complaining.
> 
> On a related, but different, note... I still see folks in the DirecTV forums complaining about some channels that haven't been added yet... or content on the existing channels... so it isn't like those folks stopped complaining, they just changed the complaint!


as you will hear E* subs complaining after they get used to having new HD channels...my point was that because D* didnt hit the 100 count doesn't mean that they "didn't deliver"...because that "delivery" is what E* subs are wanting. Not trying to knock E*, but you can't take away from what D* did by any means.

As far as us being the only ones complaining...i wouldn't count on it...anyone i talk to outside of here that complains about it, does nolt belong to a DBS site.... friends of mine ask me if i have heard anything new, since we get info (rumors) here faster than they then E* gives it out. I'm sure each of us know someone (if not many) who are wanting certain channels in HD. If it were just us complaining, then the companies wouldn't be in such a "race". I'm sure the complaint dept. is seeing far more than us "shop talk" guys.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Difference is, you don't hear D* subs complaining like you do E* subs, because they are enjoying 18 more HD channels than E*, many of which are the subject of complaints here...


Some days it seems that the D* subs are complaining more about E*'s channel line up than E*'s subs. 

Too much importance has been placed on one type of programming and in many cases one channel or another. E* survives (and thrives).


----------



## Paul Secic

texaswolf said:


> as you will hear E* subs complaining after they get used to having new HD channels...my point was that because D* didnt hit the 100 count doesn't mean that they "didn't deliver"...because that "delivery" is what E* subs are wanting. Not trying to knock E*, but you can't take away from what D* did by any means.
> 
> As far as us being the only ones complaining...i wouldn't count on it...anyone i talk to outside of here that complains about it, does nolt belong to a DBS site.... friends of mine ask me if i have heard anything new, since we get info (rumors) here faster than they then E* gives it out. I'm sure each of us know someone (if not many) who are wanting certain channels in HD. If it were just us complaining, then the companies wouldn't be in such a "race". I'm sure the complaint dept. is seeing far more than us "shop talk" guys.


We are in a HD subset say 1 million in a SD subset of 13 million. Then Directv, cable. Do you know every TV Viewer? Of course not. We DBSTALKERS are like an ant on a lion.

In the grand scheme of things, we don't count.

Confused yet?:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## HobbyTalk

James Long said:


> Too much importance has been placed on one type of programming and in many cases one channel or another. E* survives (and thrives).


You mean like that worthless TBS HD station that was added because everyone said they would leave E* for a handful of baseball playoff games?  And people wonder why a company doesn't listen to the whiners LOL


----------



## texaswolf

Paul Secic said:


> We are in a HD subset say 1 million in a SD subset of 13 million. Then Directv, cable. Do you know every TV Viewer? Of course not. We DBSTALKERS are like an ant on a lion.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, we don't count.
> 
> Confused yet?:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Apparently you didnt understand my point....just because you hear (or see) complaints here does not mean that they do not happen elsewhere...you are seriously kidding yourself if you think so...

as far as the "minority" issue goes...tell that to E* and D*'s marketing dept.....whose main focus is on HD...yeah..they don't care what HD subs think...that doesn't help them with marketing, and programming decisions


----------



## texaswolf

HobbyTalk said:



> You mean like that worthless TBS HD station that was added because everyone said they would leave E* for a handful of baseball playoff games?  And people wonder why a company doesn't listen to the whiners LOL


perhaps they should have held onto extra innings then


----------



## RAD

texaswolf said:


> as far as the "minority" issue goes...tell that to E* and D*'s marketing dept.....whose main focus is on HD...yeah..they don't care what HD subs think...that doesn't help them with marketing, and programming decisions


And the accounting department that really likes the high ARPU that HD customers bring to the table.


----------



## James Long

Hopefully the lower HD entry price will help that. $20 all or nothing was a bit high.

(Of course, we won't see that on a balance sheet until at least April.)


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> Hopefully the lower HD entry price will help that. $20 all or nothing was a bit high.
> 
> (Of course, we won't see that on a balance sheet until at least April.)


i think it will...but i still think the Vooms alone would have been a better package...keep those other 4 channels with th $10 pack so subs don't have to pay an extra $10 for them if they want them...it would only make sense, since the VOOMS are a network of their own.


----------



## digital223

A few op's stated that D* subs don't complain as much as E* subs.
I am an E* sub and do a great deal of research on dbstalk.

When I visiit this forum I immediately go to "todays post". Scanning thru them I find overwhelming D* posts, compared to the fewer E* posts.
I'm not saying all the D* posts are complaints. But not that long ago I was seriously considering switching to D*. Their HD pack costs less with more programming. That's a +. When doing research for a receiver, not only was D*'s site vauge it was misleading and confusing, for me to choose a HD DVR. Fortunately Dbstalk posts made by D* subs saved me form making the a incorrect choice, for me that is !

There are many probs with new E*'s newer receivers. recently one was sold without ota, and without warning to the sub. [I believe that's why when researching I couldn't find a dvr with difinitive specs on thier site.] Then they state an ota solution is forthcoming. But when it came it was what they left out in the 1st place....a separate ota box. Aside from it taking up additional space and power, they plan to charge their subs for it, and possibly add a lease fee as well. 
I want and need ota so I stayed with E*. I do hope E* catches up with more HD programming soon.


----------



## peano

digital223 said:


> There are many probs with new E*'s newer receivers. recently one was sold without ota, and without warning to the sub..


I think you mean D*.


----------



## digital223

peano said:


> I think you mean D*.


ooops ! typo.

Thanks peano, I do mean D*.


----------



## HD is Life

Funny how people see only what they pre-determine that they want to see.


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> Hopefully the lower HD entry price will help that. $20 all or nothing was a bit high.
> 
> (Of course, we won't see that on a balance sheet until at least April.)


I don't seem to remember you saying this for the past few years James.

Maybe my memory is failing  but during all the talk about prices I can't seem to recall you going public saying that $20 was too high for HD.

Now that Dish breaks up the HD package (still same price if you want all the HD channels so you must "still" think Dish charges too much for HD) you come forward and say that it was too high.

Let me ask you this... when Dish was charging $20 for HD with less channels but D* did not have all their new HD channels (IE Dish was the only game in town) did you then say publically that $20 was too high?

I seem to remember a large debate (in which I was involved of course) saying that $20 was way too high for HD and if memory serves you were defending Dish and their prices back then.

So what changed?

-JB

Some examples you posted:

07/07/07



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Hound
> The point of this thread is the $20 HD fee which is the highest in the industry.
> 
> Yet for that $20 you are getting more unique channels of HD than competing services. Everyone has upconverts ... even sourced HD material where the content on HBO HD is the same as HBO SD except the resolution. With E* you get MORE than just the HD version of content you already get. You get more HD only content.
> 
> E* set a price point ... many are willing to pay it. This "highest in the industry" crap is silly when you are dismissing all you get for your money.
> __________________


07/07/07



> Significant is a matter of opinion. In 2006 E* offered five HD channels for $9.99 and after Voom's collapse offered ten more added on for $5.00. Five for $9.99 or fifteen for $14.99. (Plus HBO and Show HD if one subscribes to the premium packages and PPV HD and other special content.)
> 
> In 2007 E* raised that to $20.00 and ADDED more channels. Now in 2008 E* has a package of 27 (12 regular HD and 15 Voom HD - not counting the four premium movie channels and PPV). The "significant increase" in price was $5.01 -- yet they added seven more regular channels as well as the five Vooms.
> 
> Ignoring the Vooms ... $9.99 for five channels is now $20 for twelve channels. "Double" the price but you get more than double the channels. Plus, you do get the 15 oft despised Voom channels that no other US carrier has today.


07/08/07



> Nobody else charges $20 for HD? Nobody else delivers the channels we get for $20 on E*. Anyone who is coming close on count is showing duplicate content - either multiple locals or east/west feeds or part-time channels to pad the count. Not that locals, west feeds and part time channels are not cool ...


I'll stop here. This was only six months ago and you most certainly seem to be saying what a great deal that $20 gets you. I fail to see even a passing mention about how the $20 was "a bit much"


----------



## James Long

I defended their right to charge what they want. We have the right not to pay it (and not watch their channels).

The market has changed. It is no longer a 30+ channel package competing against 10 channels at any other provider. I _expected_ other providers to meet E* at the $20 price point ... and D* has approached that by charging extra for some HD channels ($5 extra for four channels, what a deal!).

In retrospect perhaps they should have charged less ... perhaps $15. It is easier to say in retrospect because we on the outside don't have current information to work on. "Way too high" isn't "a bit high". They charged $20 and people paid $20 so it must have been acceptable to a certain extent.

Now is a good time to for that to change. Especially with the economic problems in the US E* needs to make sure that they remain affordable. A $10 HD upgrades package and the $29.99 "all I want is HD" package are good package introductions.


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> I defended their right to charge what they want. We have the right not to pay it (and not watch their channels).
> 
> The market has changed. It is no longer a 30+ channel package competing against 10 channels at any other provider. I _expected_ other providers to meet E* at the $20 price point ... and D* has approached that by charging extra for some HD channels ($5 extra for four channels, what a deal!).
> 
> In retrospect perhaps they should have charged less ... perhaps $15. It is easier to say in retrospect because we on the outside don't have current information to work on. "Way too high" isn't "a bit high". They charged $20 and people paid $20 so it must have been acceptable to a certain extent.
> 
> Now is a good time to for that to change. Especially with the economic problems in the US E* needs to make sure that they remain affordable. A $10 HD upgrades package and the $29.99 "all I want is HD" package are good package introductions.


I respect your answer James and yes times do change and as such we need to adjust. It is interesting how the tide has moved a bit from the "any channel at any cost" to a more reasonable "do we really need that channel at that price" line of thinking.

I'll not bring up the "ala" line as I know that ruffles so many feathers but clearly we need to continue to push for more choice and not less.

This $29 HD only package along with the two $10 packs are a good "first step" and now we need to push for more options and not less. I was a bit shocked when I read about the $29 HD only pakage. Now if only those 2-3 still SD channels that I watch were in HD then I could move to that 

I supect Dish knows this. Once "most" channels are in HD I suspect that $29 HD package will be gone 

Either way I hope this small move toward choice continues.

-JB


----------



## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> I respect your answer James and yes times do change and as such we need to adjust. It is interesting how the tide has moved a bit from the "any channel at any cost" to a more reasonable "do we really need that channel at that price" line of thinking.
> 
> I'll not bring up the "ala" line as I know that ruffles so many feathers but clearly we need to continue to push for more choice and not less.
> 
> This $29 HD only package along with the two $10 packs are a good "first step" and now we need to push for more options and not less. I was a bit shocked when I read about the $29 HD only pakage. Now if only those 2-3 still SD channels that I watch were in HD then I could move to that
> 
> I supect Dish knows this. Once "most" channels are in HD I suspect that $29 HD package will be gone
> 
> Either way I hope this small move toward choice continues.
> 
> -JB


Agreed....more choice, like a Voom *ALONE* pack...and give back the other 4 channels


----------



## phrelin

I'd feel ok about the Voom situation if I knew that they had improvement plans, programming-wise that is. But they seem to have the E* no-news-that-isn't-advertising customer relations approach.


----------



## texaswolf

phrelin said:


> I'd feel ok about the Voom situation if I knew that they had improvement plans, programming-wise that is. But they seem to have the E* no-news-that-isn't-advertising customer relations approach.


True, but even if they did update the programming....I still don't think i would pay an extra $10 a month for them...a lot of people would, and a lot wouldn't....i think this is why E* has put those other channels with it...so they wouldn't lose as many $20 HD subs


----------



## jrb531

texaswolf said:


> True, but even if they did update the programming....I still don't think i would pay an extra $10 a month for them...a lot of people would, and a lot wouldn't....i think this is why E* has put those other channels with it...so they wouldn't lose as many $20 HD subs


It's a real shame because quality-wise the Voom channels are very very good. It's the content that is lacking. Yes every once in awhile I'll find something I like or have not seen 10 times  but for that $10 it's better to go Netflix or even a movie package with the one channel of HD because that one channel usually will show better stuff than all of the Voom channels combined.

-JB


----------



## texaswolf

jrb531 said:


> It's a real shame because quality-wise the Voom channels are very very good. It's the content that is lacking. Yes every once in awhile I'll find something I like or have not seen 10 times  but for that $10 it's better to go Netflix or even a movie package with the one channel of HD because that one channel usually will show better stuff than all of the Voom channels combined.
> 
> -JB


oh yeah, if some of the national channels had the quality of VOOM, I would be very happy! Your right though...it's a shame and wasted quality...as of now. They have channels that could be really good with better programming, given the "style" of the channel....if they did better programming on Gameplay, Monsters, and Kung FU...to go along with Rave (the only bright spot right now)...i could see my self keeping them.

It's funny with the VOOMS...it's the opposite argument of the wanted channels....some newer channels have good programming, but crappy picture quality...where as the VOOMS have great picture quality, but crappy programming. But thats getting OT....like i said before...they should be a separate option alone, since they are "grouped" into one network...and not tagged with other channels, just to keep people subscribing to them.


----------



## BopMan

jrb531 said:


> I respect your answer James and yes times do change and as such we need to adjust. It is interesting how the tide has moved a bit from the "any channel at any cost" to a more reasonable "do we really need that channel at that price" line of thinking.
> 
> I'll not bring up the "ala" line as I know that ruffles so many feathers but clearly we need to continue to push for more choice and not less.
> 
> This $29 HD only package along with the two $10 packs are a good "first step" and now we need to push for more options and not less. I was a bit shocked when I read about the $29 HD only pakage. Now if only those 2-3 still SD channels that I watch were in HD then I could move to that
> 
> I supect Dish knows this. Once "most" channels are in HD I suspect that $29 HD package will be gone
> 
> Either way I hope this small move toward choice continues.
> 
> -JB


Jb- I've heard of the all HD package but what are the $10 packs?


----------



## James Long

I believe he's separating the $20 DishHD Ultimate tier into the $10 DishHD Essentials and a $10 add-on.


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> I believe he's separating the $20 DishHD Ultimate tier into the $10 DishHD Essentials and a $10 add-on.


Yes I was and thanks for clarifying it.

-JB


----------



## Paul Secic

James Long said:


> I believe he's separating the $20 DishHD Ultimate tier into the $10 DishHD Essentials and a $10 add-on.


Does anyone know what channels will be in the Ultimate tier? Why hasn't Dish advertised it?


----------



## HobbyTalk

Paul Secic said:


> Does anyone know what channels will be in the Ultimate tier? Why hasn't Dish advertised it?


All of the channels that are in the current HD pack.


----------



## James Long

Dish will advertise it when it is available.
As HobbyTalk noted, it will be the same channels as the current $20 DishHD.


----------



## Paul Secic

texaswolf said:


> True, but even if they did update the programming....I still don't think i would pay an extra $10 a month for them...a lot of people would, and a lot wouldn't....i think this is why E* has put those other channels with it...so they wouldn't lose as many $20 HD subs


VOOM seems to shuffle 3 programs a day & repeats them all month. But so do STARZ, HBO. In the begining DISH got VOOM to please early adapters.


----------



## eatonjb

yea, but Voom can play the same shows for 6 months! not 1


----------



## Paul Secic

eatonjb said:


> yea, but Voom can play the same shows for 6 months! not 1


So I see. Shows range from 2001 to 2007. Lots of shows are from Expess Vu. They should buy Leo LaPorte's Call for help, which is shot in HD. They started shooting in HD in January 2007 because the American media was crying for more HD content. He was on TechTV, which became G4. YUCK!!!!!


----------



## jsunb198

When is Dishnetwork going to offer 
Speed channel in HD?


----------



## lamp525

jsunb198 said:


> When is Dishnetwork going to offer
> Speed channel in HD?


Yes speedhd would be nice..Where on line can I find the 100$ hd rebate..Thanks


----------



## thenefas

lamp525 said:


> Yes speedhd would be nice..Where on line can I find the 100$ hd rebate..Thanks


dishnetwork.com/bonus


----------



## digital223

Paul Secic said:


> Does anyone know what channels will be in the Ultimate tier? Why hasn't Dish advertised it?


They are:
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/programming/index.shtml


----------



## Kman68

jsunb198 said:


> When is Dishnetwork going to offer
> Speed channel in HD?


SPEED HD has not shown a single program in HD, yet. D* owns the HD channel not FOX. Speed said the first HD broadcast will be NASCAR. Only 4 Formula One races a broadcast in HD for their supporting countries - Austrailia, Japan, USA and (can't remember the 4th). They say the season opener in Australia will be on SPEED in HD. As for other series, we will see.


----------



## texaswolf

Kman68 said:


> SPEED HD has not shown a single program in HD, yet. D* owns the HD channel not FOX. Speed said the first HD broadcast will be NASCAR. Only 4 Formula One races a broadcast in HD for their supporting countries - Austrailia, Japan, USA and (can't remember the 4th). They say the season opener in Australia will be on SPEED in HD. As for other series, we will see.


Well at least Race fans will enjoy the better picture with the upconversion, until more things are broadcasted in HD....but i thought some races were in HD already?


----------



## RAD

Kman68 said:


> SPEED HD has not shown a single program in HD, yet.


Incorrect, Speed has shown HD programming already, last weekend the Daytona Rolex was in HD and some motocross shows have been in HD.


----------



## HobbyTalk

There is no F1 race in the US in 2008.


----------



## Friendswood

Looks like we're pretty much in a holding pattern!  
Oh well....still 12 days left of February.


----------



## EVAC41

looks like D* is going to launch first.

Just checked sea-launch


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

It appears that the title of this discussion should be DISH Network to Expand HD Line-Up in SECOND HALF of 2008.

:eek2:


----------



## tomcrown1

DirecTV-Sub said:


> It appears that the title of this discussion should be DISH Network to Expand HD Line-Up in SECOND HALF of 2008.
> 
> :eek2:


Or maybe Dish to Expand Lineup on 12/31/08


----------



## James Long

The promise is by the end of 2008 and the first post press release makes that clear.

I hope it comes earlier and keep checking for more signs of an earlier release. It is a bit frustrating knowing that channels are there just not turned on - but I'm still getting EVERY HD channel that I'm paying for!


----------



## rtk

I'm sure its been posted somewhere but I just can't find it. Will a new dish (and switch?) be required to receive programming from the new satellites going up this year?


----------



## James Long

Nope. Existing available dishes and switches work fine.

These are new satellites to existing locations.


----------



## jeffandgina2000

Cool... cant wait!


----------



## bobukcat

jeffandgina2000 said:


> Cool... cant wait!


You're going to have to continue to wait - which is what we've all been doing for months now (when did the last new HD get added to E*??). :crying_sa


----------



## FogCutter

This is kind of like the old Chinese Water Torture. It will end eventually, but it just keeps dripping, dripping, dripping . . .then suddenly the guide will be full of wonderful new HD channels.


----------



## dbconsultant

FogCutter said:


> This is kind of like the old Chinese Water Torture. It will end eventually, but it just keeps dripping, dripping, dripping . . .then suddenly the guide will be full of wonderful new HD channels.


Yeah, and there will probably be one more than D* has and then all the D* folks can start talking about jumpin' ship!:lol:


----------



## jclewter79

I think maybe that is why they are waiting. So they can beat D*'s count the day they turn them on.


----------



## texaswolf

jclewter79 said:


> I think maybe that is why they are waiting. So they can beat D*'s count the day they turn them on.


the longer they wait, the more time D* will have to add more channels....so who knows, E* could wait and unleash a bunch...and then a week later D* could top them again...they just need to quit screwing around and put the damn channels up.


----------



## RAD

If D11 goes operational in a couple of months that's supposed to give DirecTV capacity for 150 national HD channels. Dish is saying that by EOY 2008 they'll have 100 channels. My question is will Dish have the capacity to do more then 100 channel or is that their limit for this year? If that's the case I don't see how Dish will keep up with DirecTV this year since DirecTV will have over 100 channels very shortly.


----------



## James Long

Capacity is irrelevant if the channels do not exist. DISH won the capacity war back in 2003 ... which wasn't very impressive without actual HD content. DISH brings this up often when countering DirecTV's claims. There has to _BE_ 100 HD channels to _CARRY_ 100 HD channels.

BTW: DirecTV has more than 100 "HD" feeds today if you count all the PPV and part-time RSNs.

Where DirecTV has the edge is in local markets. It is amazing how much people pay a satellite provider for HD just to get channels that should be free over the air. That is where D11 will really shine. National HD is good, but the most important four or five channels in the lineup are often the local HD digital stations.


----------



## eatonjb

yea, well if D* would stop making newer recivers WITHOUT the OTA Tuner they could get away with a little more.. I know the new H21 and the other one does not have that OTA on it anymore, where the older versions like the H20 had em.. not sure why they removed it. I like the OTA since i get the other channels like the other PBS and local weather and trafic feed.


----------



## jclewter79

I thought D* is supposed to come out with a sidecar thing to hook up to the HR21 for ota?


----------



## Hound

E* has also fallen behind in the number of local channels provided in the markets where HD locals are available. I agree that the most important HD channels are first the HD locals and then the HD RSNs. This is what a sub looks at when they get the first HDTV and have to choose a provider.
In my town, E* provides four HD locals and no HD RSNs. D* provides six HD locals and three HD RSNs,
Comcast provides eight HD locals and three HD RSNs, and Verizon provides 14 HD locals and three HD RSNs. Last year E* charged $20 for HD and $5 for locals. D* charged $10 for HD and nothing for locals. COMCAST and Verrizon did not charge for HD or Locals. It is very easy to see why E* fell behind its competitors, and ended up with a low HD penetration rate of less than 6 percent just counting MPEG 4 HD subs.
E* still does not have HD RSNs for 10 northeastern states and a big chunk of Northern CA. Very large population areas. My daughter liives in Boston near Fenway Park and I was just there recently. I literally did not see one E* dish. Hundreds of D* dishes. NESN HD and CSNNE HD.


----------



## lionsrule

good post above me....


----------



## RAD

James Long said:


> Capacity is irrelevant if the channels do not exist.


James, we've heard this before, back when D* announced their plans for HD. The E* folks were all saying there wasn't even 50 HD channels so who cares if you have capacity for channels that don't exist. Guess we'll have to wait until the end of 2008 and see if there's HD channels out there that customers want but can't get because there isn't the capacity to carry them.


----------



## zer0cool

There's HD channels out there RIGHT NOW that customers want but can't get, and it's not a capacity issue! 
Geez, how hard would it be to light up SCI-Fi HD before Battlestar Galactica resumes in late March/early April?


----------



## FogCutter

zer0cool said:


> There's HD channels out there RIGHT NOW that customers want but can't get, and it's not a capacity issue!
> Geez, how hard would it be to light up SCI-Fi HD before Battlestar Galactica resumes in late March/early April?


I quit setting goalposts with Dish a long time ago. I've learned to take how long it should take, double it, add six months, and be prepared wait even longer.

I was watching SG Atlantis last night, and a bug popped up "This program is available in HD -- contact your provider." Yeah -- great idea! That will do a lot of good.

Oh well.


----------



## James Long

RAD said:


> James, we've heard this before, back when D* announced their plans for HD. The E* folks were all saying there wasn't even 50 HD channels so who cares if you have capacity for channels that don't exist. Guess we'll have to wait until the end of 2008 and see if there's HD channels out there that customers want but can't get because there isn't the capacity to carry them.


Guess what happened between DirecTV's announcement and the end of 2007? Time passed. Enough time that real HD channels actually came to market. Unfortunately there have also been a lot of "upconvert" channels added with limited HD content.

The "upconvert" channels are an issue ... when one tunes in and there isn't HD there or there is fake HD (stretch-o-vision) it can be annoying. But there are some programming gems on those channels. (This put down applies to channels E* carries as well as the ones yet to be carried.)

There are now around 70 national channels in HD (or upconverted to HD). How many of those existed a year ago? Six months ago? It has been a good year for additions but it needs to be another good year for "100" national HD channels to be on either system.


----------



## texaswolf

zer0cool said:


> There's HD channels out there RIGHT NOW that customers want but can't get, and it's not a capacity issue!
> Geez, how hard would it be to light up SCI-Fi HD before Battlestar Galactica resumes in late March/early April?


Probably as hard as it was to NOT get it before Razor and Tin man aired....also as hard as it was to NOT get speed before Daytona.

I have stopped thinking that they are waiting for big show releases, to light up a channel....they just simply don't have something going, whether the capacity, or Charlies negotiation tactics....regardless, in the end...customer satisfaction on the HD programming front is obviously not a concern for them.


----------



## James Long

The only add that I see as content related was when TBS forced their way on the system for HD baseball coverage. Not funny.

Otherwise they add when they add. We still have a couple of days left in the month. The signals and bandwidth is there on all three "HD satellites". Why these channels are not on is a mystery.


----------



## RAD

James Long said:


> Guess what happened between DirecTV's announcement and the end of 2007? Time passed. Enough time that real HD channels actually came to market. Unfortunately there have also been a lot of "upconvert" channels added with limited HD content.
> 
> The "upconvert" channels are an issue ... when one tunes in and there isn't HD there or there is fake HD (stretch-o-vision) it can be annoying. But there are some programming gems on those channels. (This put down applies to channels E* carries as well as the ones yet to be carried.)
> 
> There are now around 70 national channels in HD (or upconverted to HD). How many of those existed a year ago? Six months ago? It has been a good year for additions but it needs to be another good year for "100" national HD channels to be on either system.


James, please make up your mind which argument you are going to use. In the post I was responding to you said "_Capacity is irrelevant if the channels do not exist._" in response to my question about E* still not being able to keep up to D* with their 150 channel capacity in 2008 (assuming D11 goes active). So what's to say that between now and the EOY that more HD channels are added that E* won't be able to carry since they have said only 100 channels for 2008?

And please provide a clear definiton of 'a lot' in reference to your upconvert point. D* has 7 channels that could fit that defintion (and why don't you list the channels you classify as that) since no HD has been seen on them, which compared to the total number of HD channels that D* carries IMHO is not 'a lot'.


----------



## James Long

RAD said:


> So what's to say that between now and the EOY that more HD channels are added that E* won't be able to carry since they have said only 100 channels for 2008?


You are misquoting DISH. They plan to have 100 channels by the end of the year ... not 100 channel capacity but 100 channels.

What is to say that there will be more than 100 channels available? Providers have been slow in adding their HD channels. You seem to be in the "if you build it (capacity) they will come (channels)" camp. So where are the channels with more than token HD on them?



> And please provide a clear definiton of 'a lot' in reference to your upconvert point. D* has 7 channels that could fit that defintion (and why don't you list the channels you classify as that) since no HD has been seen on them, which compared to the total number of HD channels that D* carries IMHO is not 'a lot'.


I'll let someone else (someone with DirecTV service) answer the channel list question: "_DirecTV offers a number of "HD" channels, which show no actual high definition content. Some of the channels which are advertised as being HD yet have not shown a single bit of true HD content include Cartoon Network HD, Comedy Central HD, Nick HD, MTV HD, CMT HD, VH1 HD, among others._"

Comedy Central HD is an error (since D* doesn't carry it). Are the other channels listed part of the seven you admit to? (Not counting "low HD" channels such as TBS & TNT that are often the target of complaints.)

This isn't a D* vs E* battle ... so don't take it there from here. This is a question of whether "HD" channels are in HD and a prediction of how many HD channels there will be by the end of the year.

It is your opinion that the "few" channels in fake HD are not "a lot". I disagree. About a dozen low HD channels out of about 70 national channels is a lot ... especially when people fixate on low HD channels when complaining about what is "missing". The "low HD" channels are the centerpiece of the argument for adding more HD. That makes them more important ... even if not more in number ... than the true HD channels few are complaining about.

If you want to get into some silly definitions debate of what "a lot" is go elsewhere. This is a discussion about E* and future HD ... don't get too far off track.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> The only add that I see as content related was when TBS forced their way on the system for HD baseball coverage. Not funny.


Actually... to borrow TBS' own phrase and turn it on themselves...

TBS-HD... VERY funny!


----------



## texaswolf

There is no need for a D* vs E* battle right now anyway....D* has a number of the channels that the E* subs have been complaining about....until E* figures out how to add the new channels....a battle would be pointless.


----------



## RAD

James Long said:


> You are misquoting DISH. They plan to have 100 channels by the end of the year ... not 100 channel capacity but 100 channels.
> 
> What is to say that there will be more than 100 channels available? Providers have been slow in adding their HD channels. You seem to be in the "if you build it (capacity) they will come (channels)" camp. So where are the channels with more than token HD on them?
> 
> I'll let someone else (someone with DirecTV service) answer the channel list question: "_DirecTV offers a number of "HD" channels, which show no actual high definition content. Some of the channels which are advertised as being HD yet have not shown a single bit of true HD content include Cartoon Network HD, Comedy Central HD, Nick HD, MTV HD, CMT HD, VH1 HD, among others._"
> 
> Comedy Central HD is an error (since D* doesn't carry it). Are the other channels listed part of the seven you admit to? (Not counting "low HD" channels such as TBS & TNT that are often the target of complaints.)
> 
> This isn't a D* vs E* battle ... so don't take it there from here. This is a question of whether "HD" channels are in HD and a prediction of how many HD channels there will be by the end of the year.
> 
> It is your opinion that the "few" channels in fake HD are not "a lot". I disagree. About a dozen low HD channels out of about 70 national channels is a lot ... especially when people fixate on low HD channels when complaining about what is "missing". The "low HD" channels are the centerpiece of the argument for adding more HD. That makes them more important ... even if not more in number ... than the true HD channels few are complaining about.
> 
> If you want to get into some silly definitions debate of what "a lot" is go elsewhere. This is a discussion about E* and future HD ... don't get too far off track.


OK lets check out the 100 HD channels by EOY 2008. Currently E* advertises on their web site that they have 74 national HD channels, so they have to add 26 channels to reach that number by the EOY. Currently D* has the following HD channels that E* doesn't have, Bravo, Biography, FX, MGM, SciFi, Smithsonian, Spike, USA, CNN, CNBC, Fox Business, Weather Channel, Cinemax West, HBO West, Movie Channel, Showtime West, Showtime Too, Starz Comedy, Starz Edge, Starz Kids and Family, Speed, Tennis, that's 23 channels that DO carry HD programming that E* does not carry now that they would have to if they wanted to match D*'s HD programming. On new HD channels coming this year, HBO announced their entier suite of channels will be available in HD by end of 2nd quarter 2008, http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6451493.html, and out of those D* has commited to carrying a total of 10 of which they carry 4 now so that means they'll carry 6 more so right there if E* will match D*'s HD channels they're over their 100 channels, unless the start to remove some. Disney and D* have also said they will add 4 Disney HD channels in 2008, http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/13/directv-to-carry-four-new-hd-disney-owned-channels-in-2008/ , again pushing the channel count over the 100 channel number. Then if the 7 HD channels that D* has now that have shown no HD programming actually start to do HD then that's even more over E*'s 100 channel number.

As for your HD low comment, again you throw a new argument into the discussion to help your side of the debate. Sorry but disagree with your assesment on this, if a channel has only one program in HD that I want to watch then I'm very happy that the HD channel is being made available to me. I think my thinking is in the majority let's wait to see what happens if E* doesn't have SciFi in HD come the time BSG starts up in April. Try to tell those angry folks that it's OK that E* doesn't carry the channel since they only show a few hours of HD per day:lol:

James, if E* does match D*'s HD offerings that's great for all the E* customers. I'm just trying to figure out how E* is going to match D*'s current HD offerings when they say they'll have only 100 national HD channels by EOY and they have 74 now?


----------



## James Long

Perhaps the only way of getting back on topic is to start over:


Press Release said:


> ENGLEWOOD, Colo., Jan. 7, 2008 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- DISH Network(r) (NasdaqGS: DISH - News) today announced plans to increase its national HD channel count from 76 to 100 in 2008. The company also plans to add local HD channels in 65 new markets, bringing its HD local market total to 100.


What DISH has promised is roughly 24 new HD channels "in 2008" (by the end of the year?) and a lot of local markets (about three times the number of markets).

Even the discussion of whether or not there will be 100 HDs by the end of the year is a side track ... so please don't get too twisted just because I mention that some of those the "76" HD channels on DISH (and some channels they don't carry) are no-HD or low HD channels. It is a question of what is being missed. A couple of good shows on a mostly upconvert channel.

But even including those "low HD" channels in the count, DISH's "76" is padded with PPV channels and non-national RSNs. If you want to see how a count can be padded check out the HD list on my website ... by my count DirecTV already has "109" HD channels (not counting HD locals and RSNs). I don't consider that a reasonable count.

I don't consider DISH's count of "76" reasonable either.

So, on the side topic of "will there be 100 HD channels by the end of 2008" we have a choice ... count REAL HD channels, count real HD channels plus low HD channels, count real HD, low HD and no HD channels, or count everything with a HD label. If we count"everything with a HD label" D* hit 100 channels by the end of 2007. Which brings us down to no HD (the seven you mention) and low HD channels and makes them part of the discussion in this off-topic part of the thread.

If you're really worried about going off topic let's go back to original topic of the thread and figure out which 24/26 channels DISH will be adding to meet their promise. Seven are uplinked now ... DISH can add the premium channels as more space and the channels become available. I believe they can get to 24/26 new channels.


----------



## eatonjb

ok.. lets remember that the "low HD " channels that don't currently have a TRUE HD show on , are getting there system ramped up so they can start carrying full HD shows. TBS (just for sake of argument) has verry little HD , but the idea was to get the HD up and working so they could broadcast HD when they wanted to , baseball for this channel.

so soon , when we have 100 HD capable stations, they will be able to play a show in HD when they have it in there inventory, and stretch the rest. 

now, with that being said, in the distant future, all channels will be doing "Low HD" in there streams, but lets face it guys, even if they do, we ain't going to see I Love Lucy in HD, just cause it's being broadcasted on an HD channel. 

when will everything be low or high HD, only time will tell, and no matter what D*, E* and cable are going to have to work and thow more sats up in the sky to do it, but they will have to do it. even when there is no 100% benefit to it!


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> <snip>Perhaps the only way of getting back on topic is to start over:What DISH has promised is roughly 24 new HD channels "in 2008" (by the end of the year?)


Ok. Back on topic.

Haven't you said that 7 of channels are uplinked already? So Dish is nearly a third of the way without a single new satellite? Am I correct that the channels as indicated in EKB are:

110
USA Network HD USA 9431 
Sci-Fi Channel HD SCIFI 9432

61.5/129
The Tennis Channel HD TEMP 9463
MGM HD TEMP 9483
MOJO HD TEMP 9484 
Smithsonian HD TEMP 9492
World Fishing Network TEMP 9494

So after they get around to turning these on, they need 17 more to reach their 2008 goal and to solve at least part of the problem of competitive edge even they acknowledge their competitors have. From a marketing expediture standpoint, IMHO it would be money well-spent to keep their financial obligation to VOOM (call it a marketing expense) but temporarily replace those 15 channels with some decent nationals which show programming that gets some Nielson recognition - like FX, BBCA, ABCFamily - or appear to be in demand, like SPEED. By the time the new satellites are up and working, perhaps the programming on the VOOM channels would have changed enough to be interesting for a few weeks.

Aren't they are putting all their future eggs in a terribly risky basket - future statellite launches - when they could be working out some interim solution to retain HD customers who are getting a bit...irritable?


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

I am truly uneducated regarding the 70 natiional HD channels that DN says they have. Is there a listing of exactly what they are putting into that count somewhere?

I know there is so much argument about all of this, DIRECTV claims 90 or so themselves. but I can only see closer to 75 that are on full time.

Thanks for any list that can be offered to help me understand.


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## James Long

Try here: http://jameslong.name/hdcount.html

As I stated earlier in this thread, I don't consider the count reasonable.


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## Cappyxavs

Brand New.. Just wondering if any one knows what happened to the NFL HD? Did it move to a different teir?


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## jclewter79

NFL moved up to AT 200. you would need to subcribe at least to AT 200 to see its HD counterpart if you are subscrided to HD essentials


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## Kman68

texaswolf said:


> Probably as hard as it was to NOT get it before Razor and Tin man aired....also as hard as it was to NOT get speed before Daytona.
> 
> I have stopped thinking that they are waiting for big show releases, to light up a channel....they just simply don't have something going, whether the capacity, or Charlies negotiation tactics....regardless, in the end...customer satisfaction on the HD programming front is obviously not a concern for them.


It has been posted elsewhere that the delay is the result of contracts. When D* went on their "upgrade" pitch they strong armed many networks to put their label on HD channels. Two I am aware of are SPEED and SciFi. Neither network had any HD equipment to transmit HD programing when their HD channel debuted. D* upconverted the SD signal and passed it through. Alert viewers could see that it was not HD (did the 4:3 letter box and center channel only Dolby Digital give it away?). Others thought they were getting glorious HD (ignorance is bliss).

A contract clause prohibited the new HD networks from selling their "HD" content to other providers before March 2008. Big deal, there was no true HD content. As we watch February 2008 wane, we are much closer to more HD channels that will not carry much HD programming. Do not be surprised if the "more HD" switch is thrown at midnight on March 1st.


----------



## RAD

Kman68 said:


> It has been posted elsewhere that the delay is the result of contracts. When D* went on their "upgrade" pitch they strong armed many networks to put their label on HD channels. Two I am aware of are SPEED and SciFi. Neither network had any HD equipment to transmit HD programing when their HD channel debuted. D* upconverted the SD signal and passed it through. Alert viewers could see that it was not HD (did the 4:3 letter box and center channel only Dolby Digital give it away?). Others thought they were getting glorious HD (ignorance is bliss).


Don't know about Speed but SciFi, along with USA and BRAVO did have their infrastructure in place for HD programming. When D* first lit up SciFi E* subs were saying this as fact even when this URL https://www.nbcunetworks.com/Webpage/Techspecs/ViewPublicTechSpecs.aspx?NetworkId=MjE= was provided which shows what satellite/transponder these three channels are being transmitted on. But that's OK, keep coming up with reason why Charlie and company aren't adding HD channels.


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

James Long said:


> Try here: http://jameslong.name/hdcount.html
> 
> As I stated earlier in this thread, I don't consider the count reasonable.


Ok and thanks. If I read your list correctly it seems that a person getting the package with everything can only receive at most 42 HD national channels on DN - is that about right?


----------



## James Long

In my opinion, yes. I don't like to count RSNs and PPVs.


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## nlk10010

Kman68 said:


> It has been posted elsewhere that the delay is the result of contracts.


It has also been posted that the delay is due to capacity constraints, equipment problems, marketing strategy, Charlie's unwillingness to spend, etc. None of those posts has been accompanied by evidence, so the fact is nothing has been posted demonstrating exactly what the cause is.



> When D* went on their "upgrade" pitch they strong armed many networks to put their label on HD channels. Two I am aware of are SPEED and SciFi. Neither network had any HD equipment to transmit HD programing when their HD channel debuted. D* upconverted the SD signal and passed it through. Alert viewers could see that it was not HD (did the 4:3 letter box and center channel only Dolby Digital give it away?). Others thought they were getting glorious HD (ignorance is bliss).


As was pointed out elsewhere, the "HD" stations that are on D* and not on E* (e.g. SciFi, USA) broadcast some shows in true HD, the majority not, just as A&E and History do, both of which are being touted by E* as "HD". Those who really can tell the difference know that the claim (not necessarily yours) that "none" of the content on these additional channels is true HD is patently false. There are SOME channels for which it's true, but not all.



> A contract clause prohibited the new HD networks from selling their "HD" content to other providers before March 2008. Big deal, there was no true HD content. As we watch February 2008 wane, we are much closer to more HD channels that will not carry much HD programming. Do not be surprised if the "more HD" switch is thrown at midnight on March 1st.


Perhaps, and don't be surprised if come March 1st, come April 1st, come June 1st, there is no new national HD, just as there wasn't at the other "milestone" dates being thrown up on these boards (e.g. CEDIA (or was it CES), February 1st, etc.). There is no way to know, at least for us, if or exactly when a dose of new national HD is coming; perhaps E* is close to "pulling the switch" and perhaps they'll just be pulling OUR string until the end of the year or beyond. BTW, do you have a link to a PDF of that contract or clause? While it may be true, I have not seen any evidence of it (perhaps I'm missing something).


----------



## texaswolf

> It has also been posted that the delay is due to capacity constraints, equipment problems, marketing strategy, Charlie's unwillingness to spend, etc. None of those posts has been accompanied by evidence, so the fact is nothing has been posted demonstrating exactly what the cause is.


Yep, and as Charlie stalls/struggles...cable companies are adding Scifi & USA HD. That has got to be embarrassing when a bunch of the other providers are able to pull channels that you can't...when you call yourself the "The Leader in HD"


----------



## msmith198025

RAD said:


> Don't know about Speed but SciFi, along with USA and BRAVO did have their infrastructure in place for HD programming. When D* first lit up SciFi E* subs were saying this as fact even when this URL https://www.nbcunetworks.com/Webpage/Techspecs/ViewPublicTechSpecs.aspx?NetworkId=MjE= was provided which shows what satellite/transponder these three channels are being transmitted on. But that's OK, keep coming up with reason why Charlie and company aren't adding HD channels.


He has posted that several times, and no "facts" are going to change his mind


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Yep, and as Charlie stalls/struggles...cable companies are adding Scifi & USA HD. That has got to be embarrassing when a bunch of the other providers are able to pull channels that you can't...when you call yourself the "The Leader in HD"


So how is your DBS company doing? How many HD channels do you broadcast to how many customers? How many hours of HD do you carry per month? None? Thought so. You're probably just like me ... a customer of, not a majority owner of the company.

If running a DBS company were easy more people would be doing it. 

Just a little perspective. :grin:


----------



## texaswolf

a little touchy about the company aren't ya?

I tell you what...if i was running E*...i wouldn't have the balls to keep calling myself the "leader in HD" ......... leader in DVR...sure....HD....come on


----------



## James Long

DISH led the industry to where it is today ... but I digress.
We have a no HD rant thread. Use it if you must complain.


----------



## phrelin

Kman68 said:


> <snip>As we watch February 2008 wane, we are much closer to more HD channels that will not carry much HD programming. Do not be surprised if the "more HD" switch is thrown at midnight on March 1st.


Golly gee, Saturday!

The issue for me isn't how much HD programming is carried. There are specific programs that even get decent Nielson ratings on both SciFi and USA, for instance.


----------



## James Long

Perhaps not Saturday ... but DISH will get there.
The promise is "in 2008" not a week after CES, not February 1st, not March 1st.
They'll get there.


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## texaswolf

James Long said:


> Perhaps not Saturday ... but DISH will get there.
> The promise is "in 2008" not a week after CES, not February 1st, not March 1st.
> They'll get there.


Ahhh the infamous "soon" from E* is what we have to rely on...at least we have a definite date...Dec 31st, 2008

Since my last post is missing, i'll ask again...anyone know when the next charlie chat is?


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## James Long

*Next Charlie Chat - Monday March 10th, 9pm* - Channel 101
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customer_service/broadcast/index.shtml

:backtotop


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## texaswolf

James Long said:


> *Monday March 10th, 9pm* - Channel 101
> http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/customer_service/broadcast/index.shtml
> 
> :backtotop


thank you....(i thought HD in 2008 was the topic?)

I know they WILL get new HD by the end of the year...the thing that bugs me (and i think i can speak for others as well) is getting them before seasons start on favorite shows...people would like to watch them in HD...and some have already started, or starting next month.


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## James Long

DISH's CES announcement IS the topic ... the next Charlie Chat isn't. 
Gotta stop the thread drift somehow.

(No, I don't expect Mr Ergen will discuss HD nor do I consider "by the next Charlie Chat" a deadline for more HD. It certainly would be nice. I'll take new HD any time, even low-HD channels, but I'm not guessing a date DISH has not given.)


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> DISH's CES announcement IS the topic ... the next Charlie Chat isn't.
> Gotta stop the thread drift somehow.
> 
> (No, I don't expect Mr Ergen will discuss HD nor do I consider "by the next Charlie Chat" a deadline for more HD. It certainly would be nice. I'll take new HD any time, even low-HD channels, but I'm not guessing a date DISH has not given.)


well, sorry...i know you are always on top of them, and were posting here...so i thought i'd ask...didn't mean to ruin the thread, by asking.


----------



## tomcrown1

James Long said:


> DISH's CES announcement IS the topic ... the next Charlie Chat isn't.
> Gotta stop the thread drift somehow.


What? Some folks believe that at the next Charlie Chat he would tell us about all the new HD channels dish has plan for us.

If by next Thursday we have new HD channels lite up then Charlie will talk about it, if on the other hand their is no new HD programs Charlie will look dumb founded and tell us about the new on line programming.


----------



## texaswolf

tomcrown1 said:


> What? Some folks believe that at the next Charlie Chat he would tell us about all the new HD channels dish has plan for us.
> 
> If by next Thursday we have new HD channels lite up then Charlie will talk about it, if on the other hand their is no new HD programs Charlie will look dumb founded and tell us about the new on line programming.


Actually, thats exactly why i was wondering when it was.


----------



## James Long

I figured that much. 
Charlie Chats have been consistent for the past few months. Expect nothing.

(Well, Leslie Harper _may_ show you how to change the batteries in your remote ... which in itself wouldn't be a waste of time as it would be Leslie. If it were Scott Higgins the collective scream would knock the satellite out of orbit. Knowing DISH they would have Charlie do it to demonstrate that he does know how to use the equipment ... and he'd put the batteries in backwards. See what happens when a thread spirals off topic? Now I have to give myself a warning.)


----------



## TBoneit

phrelin said:


> Golly gee, Saturday!
> 
> The issue for me isn't how much HD programming is carried. There are specific programs that even get decent Nielson ratings on both SciFi and USA, for instance.


Really? What shows? I might have to sample them. I don't even look at their line-up these days.



phrelin said:


> Ok. Back on topic.
> 
> Snipped:
> 
> Aren't they are putting all their future eggs in a terribly risky basket - future statellite launches - when they could be working out some interim solution to retain HD customers who are getting a bit...irritable?


Future Eggs in one basket? Less so than D* was doing last year when they were so bandwidth starved that they had to turn off other HD channels on Sundays. If the rocket that blew on Sea launch had been the one with their satellite they'd still be struggling.

It all comes even in the end. E* was way ahead on HD for years and now D* is ahead and soon they'll all be even with differences once again as they were before HD was around.


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

TBoneit said:


> It all comes even in the end. E* was way ahead on HD for years and now D* is ahead and soon they'll all be even with differences once again as they were before HD was around.


Not really 'way ahead'. Actually for over a year the only difference was the VOOM networks - at first only 10 channels, then expanded to 15. And then don't forget that around 9 or so HD channels were only added last summer in August, a mere month or so before DIRECTV.

Other than VOOM. they had maybe 5 or 6 true national channels for a year of so that D* didn't have. I don't consider that WAY AHEAD, but they did lead the pack.

Right now, D*s huge advantage is 5 months and counting, will probably reach 9 or so at the minumum.


----------



## texaswolf

TBoneit said:


> Really? What shows? I might have to sample them. I don't even look at their line-up these days.
> 
> Future Eggs in one basket? Less so than D* was doing last year when they were so bandwidth starved that they had to turn off other HD channels on Sundays. If the rocket that blew on Sea launch had been the one with their satellite they'd still be struggling.
> 
> *It all comes even in the end*. E* was way ahead on HD for years and now D* is ahead and soon they'll all be even with differences once again as they were before HD was around.


Thats good that it all comes around in the end...but for the people who actually watch these channels, the end doesn't matter. I see a lot of.."dont' worry" and "soon" and "i can wait" post...which is fine, but keep in mind that the people doing all the screaming actually watch these channels a lot, and would like to see thier favorite shows in HD also. So when season starts up, and they still have no HD...they get annoyed.

A lot of people want Speed HD, i think it would be nice, but i'm not a big watcher of it, so it's easy for me to have the "when they do they do" attitude....however, when my favorite shows are coming on, on Sci fi, and FX, and we still don't have them in HD...i get ticked. So just keep in mind that other people may have a lot more interest in certain HD channels coming asap, instead of eventually.

And it sucks about the launch site mishap, and yes it happened to E* and not D*....but as James and others have pointed out...they have more room to be able to add a few more HD channels....so the sat launch issue isn't the only problem E* is having....either negotiations, tech issues, or something...basically, they could be doing something.

and no, i don't own my own DBS company...i'm just one of millions and millions who want the "HD leader" to actually be the "HD leader"...or at least add on some more wanted HD channels.


----------



## HobbyTalk

DirecTV-Sub said:


> Other than VOOM. they had maybe 5 or 6 true national channels for a year of so that D* didn't have. I don't consider that WAY AHEAD, but they did lead the pack.


Didn't that 5 or 6 extra make it double what D* had at the time? What is "way ahead"? 50% more? 75% more? I would consider even 50% more as being way ahead.


----------



## texaswolf

Kman68 said:


> It has been posted elsewhere that the delay is the result of contracts. When D* went on their "upgrade" pitch they strong armed many networks to put their label on HD channels. Two I am aware of are SPEED and SciFi. Neither network had any HD equipment to transmit HD programing when their HD channel debuted. D* upconverted the SD signal and passed it through. Alert viewers could see that it was not HD (did the 4:3 letter box and center channel only Dolby Digital give it away?). Others thought they were getting glorious HD (ignorance is bliss).
> 
> A contract clause prohibited the new HD networks from selling their "HD" content to other providers before March 2008. Big deal, there was no true HD content. As we watch February 2008 wane, we are much closer to more HD channels that will not carry much HD programming. Do not be surprised if the "more HD" switch is thrown at midnight on March 1st.


As we have corrected many people with the "no HD" claim...prime time shows on Sci Fi and USA, are true HD, the shows during the daytime are not, but the shows that draw in most of their viewers are...and i think thats all that is asked to begin with for fans of the channels.


----------



## James Long

DirecTV-Sub said:


> Not really 'way ahead'. Actually for over a year the only difference was the VOOM networks - at first only 10 channels, then expanded to 15. And then don't forget that around 9 or so HD channels were only added last summer in August, a mere month or so before DIRECTV.
> 
> Other than VOOM. they had maybe 5 or 6 true national channels for a year of so that D* didn't have. I don't consider that WAY AHEAD, but they did lead the pack.
> 
> Right now, D*s huge advantage is 5 months and counting, will probably reach 9 or so at the minumum.


It's easy to sell short the offerings of "other side" ... but that STILL isn't what this thread is about.

This is a place to discuss what DISH is doing ... not to take umbrage over every little comment that might upset a DirecTV subscriber (and "fanboys"). Welcome to the DBSTalk DISH Network HD Forum ... there are better places to talk DirecTV.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> As we have corrected many people with the "no HD" claim...prime time shows on Sci Fi and USA, are true HD, the shows during the daytime are not, but the shows that draw in most of their viewers are...and i think thats all that is asked to begin with for fans of the channels.


There are the seven channels that are admittedly "no HD" ... I've been the "some HD" channels "low HD" to keep them separate in the discussion. "24/7 HD" is harder to come by ... and those channels are often bashed for replaying content (whether or not they are Voom).

Sci-Fi and USA would not be in the "no HD" category. I would only place ONE of the pending seven channels in the "no HD" category ... WFN (World Fishing Network). Three of the seven pending are actually "24/7 HD".

I expect of the "24" we will see by the end of the year there will be more "24/7 HD" and "high HD" content channels than "low HD" or "no HD" channels. That is the way DISH rolls!


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

James Long said:


> It's easy to sell short the offerings of "other side" ... but that STILL isn't what this thread is about.
> 
> This is a place to discuss what DISH is doing ... not to take umbrage over every little comment that might upset a DirecTV subscriber (and "fanboys"). Welcome to the DBSTalk DISH Network HD Forum ... there are better places to talk DirecTV.


I am far from being a fan - I am just a customer. And I take no umbrage (?), but don't understand the need for people to feather the facts on either side. I prefer to have a honest discussion. Correcting the info about DN is a discussion about what they are doing (or did in the past) isn't it?


----------



## HarveyLA

Charlie may be silent on "Charlie Chat" but he's talking to the financial community. Recent "disappointing" earnings and customer levels are being blamed in part on falling behind in the HD competition. So I would not doubt for a minute that this is a top priority. He cites delays in satellite launches.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/dishhd022608.htm

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/02/hd_boom_may_have_helped_direct.php


----------



## texaswolf

HarveyLA said:


> Charlie may be silent on "Charlie Chat" but he's talking to the financial community. Recent "disappointing" earnings and customer levels are being blamed in part on falling behind in the HD competition. So I would not doubt for a minute that this is a top priority. He cites delays in satellite launches.
> 
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/dishhd022608.htm
> 
> http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/02/hd_boom_may_have_helped_direct.php


Well that pretty much sums up the 4th quarter arguments going on last December on here. but again the million dollar question...when will E* put more up...and stop losing customers or potential customers.


----------



## HobbyTalk

There is much that no one here knows about. Many reasons could be keeping more HD from coming on-line. Here is one argument that is as good as any other that anyone might be able to conjure up.

For all we know some of the transponders may be susceptible to failure. Because of this E* needs to keep some additional transponders (over the normal reserve) in reserve in case this happens. Could you imagine the firestorm if they offered some channels then later had to remove them because of transponder failure?

But this could also bring up other issues. I would suspect that carriage agreements include wording that includes their channel must be carried 24/7 once lit-up. If a channel would have to be removed because of transponder failure this would put E* in a very bad position as they begged for new terms on the contract.

As it is now I would suspect that broadcasters are very anxious to get their HD channels on the new sats going up this year. This puts E* in a much better bargaining position then if they had to go back to ask if they could drop a channel because of transponder failure.

If these circumstances saves E* only $0.50 per subscriber because of the stronger bargining position, that savings would easily offset the loss of 100k subscribers while we wait until the end of the year for more HD.

Just a story that is as good as what anyone else can make up.


----------



## eatonjb

lets hope that changes when a new bird is put up


----------



## Paul Secic

tomcrown1 said:


> What? Some folks believe that at the next Charlie Chat he would tell us about all the new HD channels dish has plan for us.
> 
> If by next Thursday we have new HD channels lite up then Charlie will talk about it, if on the other hand their is no new HD programs Charlie will look dumb founded and tell us about the new on line programming.


Or their great interactive junk. They should fire that division head.


----------



## TBoneit

DirecTV-Sub said:


> Not really 'way ahead'. Actually for over a year the only difference was the VOOM networks - at first only 10 channels, then expanded to 15. And then don't forget that around 9 or so HD channels were only added last summer in August, a mere month or so before DIRECTV.
> 
> Other than VOOM. they had maybe 5 or 6 true national channels for a year of so that D* didn't have. I don't consider that WAY AHEAD, but they did lead the pack.
> 
> Right now, D*s huge advantage is 5 months and counting, will probably reach 9 or so at the minumum.


OTOH they didn't have to turn off channels on sundays because they overbooked their HD bandwidth.


----------



## Henry

texaswolf said:


> Thats good that it all comes around in the end...but for the people who actually watch these channels, the end doesn't matter. I see a lot of.."dont' worry" and "soon" and "i can wait" post...which is fine, but keep in mind that the people doing all the screaming actually watch these channels a lot, and would like to see thier favorite shows in HD also. So when season starts up, and they still have no HD...they get annoyed.
> 
> A lot of people want Speed HD, i think it would be nice, but i'm not a big watcher of it, so it's easy for me to have the "when they do they do" attitude....however, when my favorite shows are coming on, on Sci fi, and FX, and we still don't have them in HD...i get ticked. So just keep in mind that other people may have a lot more interest in certain HD channels coming asap, instead of eventually.
> 
> And it sucks about the launch site mishap, and yes it happened to E* and not D*....but as James and others have pointed out...they have more room to be able to add a few more HD channels....so the sat launch issue isn't the only problem E* is having....either negotiations, tech issues, or something...basically, they could be doing something.
> 
> and no, i don't own my own DBS company...i'm just one of millions and millions who want the "HD leader" to actually be the "HD leader"...or at least add on some more wanted HD channels.


Thanks, TW. I agree with everything you say.

I would only add that if E* were more forthcoming with information, posts like yours wouldn't have to be written. As it is, however, they aren't. As a result, a clientele left in a vacuum will get restless and find a voice not far removed from a chorus. At some point we will be heard and acknowledged by E* - although they will sadly soon forget that lesson.


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

TBoneit said:


> OTOH they didn't have to turn off channels on sundays because they overbooked their HD bandwidth.


Can't argue with the truth. From May of 2005 until September of 2007 DISH offered more HD channels. That equated as I said to a handful of channels other than VOOM, but more channels nevertheless.

Do you remember Woolworths? At one time they also were a retail leader, but they are now GONE. They didn't stay up with the market, people stopped shopping there. I can easily think of many one-time market leaders that are now long gone or among second tier companies now.

It is all about today really, just reflect on both companies earning reports. DN won't be going away of course, but to say that losing new subs to the competition at this time is not important - well that would also be incorrect. These new subs are getting HD, getting DVRS and are spending more a month than the legacy customer base. They are into new 24 month contracts - so they will be set for a while now.

I am not sure how it can make someone feel good by saying 'we used to have more' so it's ok that we don't anymore.


----------



## James Long

Dismissing channels that you don't like is an intellectually dishonest way of arguing. These are 24/7 HD theme channels that were formerly on a competitor's system. If you're going to drop to the level of "personal preference" (or worse yet, claim that you speak for millions of subscribers as past Voom detractors have done) I need to remind you that I'm sure someone will hate your favorite channels - and not want to count them.

DISH Network is not giving up their market position as a leader. They may have a hard time proving it, especially to people who have an unreasonable love for DirecTV, but they EARNED that position and won't be giving it up.

How stupid of them would it be to say "yeah, we used to be the market leader ... now we are not"? They have adjusted the claim (at least in what Mr Ergen says) to "a market leader" instead of "the market leader" ... but throwing out the years of leadership and innovation because some other company has increased their HD channel count is absolutely stupid.


----------



## jclewter79

I am sure E* will be on top of the channel count again, Charlie is in it to win it that is for sure. Funny we never hear anyone argue about the "Leader in DVR Technology" statement. As far as HDDVR technology E* is the clear leader so I would that they are still "a industry leader" no matter the number of channels currently offered.


----------



## phrelin

Kman68 said:


> Do not be surprised if the "more HD" switch is thrown at midnight on March 1st.


And I wasn't...surprised, I mean.:beatdeadhorse:


----------



## lamp525

phrelin said:


> And I wasn't...surprised, I mean.:beatdeadhorse:


I really thought more hd on Feb. 29th for sure..so sad


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

James Long said:


> DISH Network is not giving up their market position as a leader. They may have a hard time proving it, especially to people who have an unreasonable love for DirecTV, but they EARNED that position and won't be giving it up.


And I am certain that you would agree that the following statement would also be 100% true:

DIRECTV is not giving up their market position as a leader. They may have a hard time proving it, especially to people who have an unreasonable love for DISH NETWORK, but they EARNED that position and won't be giving it up.

It just depends on what a persons programming preferences are and so on, doesn't it?


----------



## phrelin

I don't want to be difficult, but what is a "leader" in this context? I like the 4th definition I found at Dictionary.com:

"a featured article of trade, esp. one offered at a low price to attract customers. Compare loss leader.":grin:


----------



## phrelin

James Long said:


> There are the seven channels that are admittedly "no HD" ... I've been the "some HD" channels "low HD" to keep them separate in the discussion. "24/7 HD" is harder to come by ... and those channels are often bashed for replaying content (whether or not they are Voom).
> 
> Sci-Fi and USA would not be in the "no HD" category. I would only place ONE of the pending seven channels in the "no HD" category ... WFN (World Fishing Network). Three of the seven pending are actually "24/7 HD".
> 
> I expect of the "24" we will see by the end of the year there will be more "24/7 HD" and "high HD" content channels than "low HD" or "no HD" channels. That is the way DISH rolls!


None of the magic seven are *FX* which begins its 2nd season of "Dirt" Sunday. The one-hour commericial free series premiere of "Dirt" had 3.7 million total viewers with 2.4 million of those viewers in the coveted A18-49 demographic.

So while some watch "Dirt" in HD Sunday, on the 24/7 HD Voom channels I can watch a 2007 Canadian Football League game (shown earlier that day), one of the six showings on Sunday and Monday of the Montreux Jazz Festival 2004 with Suzanne Vega et al., or one of the 10 showings on Sunday and Monday of the "Culture and Music of Mali 2." Presumably someone will watch the repeats of these shows shown opposite "Dirt."

Also "The Riches", which debuted on FX last year to 3.8 million total viewers with an impressive 2.5M of those viewers falling in the key A18-49 demographic, will soon return. Minnie Driver was nominated for an Emmy for this show. I wonder what crap I'll get to watch on my 24/7 HD channels.

Spare me the 24/7 arguments.



texaswolf said:


> As we have corrected many people with the "no HD" claim...prime time shows on Sci Fi and USA, are true HD, the shows during the daytime are not, but the shows that draw in most of their viewers are...and i think thats all that is asked to begin with for fans of the channels.


Right on! Ignoring the special on March 28, "Battlestar Galactica" returns April 4 on SciFi which is one of the seven uplinked HD channels _not_ "turned on." Anyone care to speculate what will be on Voom opposite it?

I know that on Voom the 200th+ repeat of an outstanding episode of that great 1970's British show "UFO" and one of three showings on Friday and Saturday of "Americana Week in New Hampshire" will be opposite this Friday's TBS HD rerun of "Funniest Commercials of the Year: 2007" and opposite the SciFi SD season finale of "Stargate Atlantis," in SD because SciFi HD isn't "turned on".

I know...by December 31, 2008 (_*if*_ the new satellites are in place) I'll be getting all these channels. And I'll forget all about it. Unless I die on December 30, 2008.:eek2:


----------



## lparsons21

I've been watching this thread for quite some time. I am one of those that chose not to wait for Dish to add the new channels. I would have been more willing to wait had Dish chose to be a bit more forthcoming about when at least some channels would be added. Since they've chosen only to say by December 2008, I decided I wanted it now.

So worse case scenario, Dish won't do diddly until towards the end of the year and I'll be watching all these HD channels for that period, and only have around a year more to stay with the competition. Fair trade, imo.

And I also agree that Dish has the best HDDVR on the market. But I spend most of my time viewing the channels provided and very little time watching the equipment.


----------



## jclewter79

lparsons21 said:


> And I also agree that Dish has the best HDDVR on the market. But I spend most of my time viewing the channels provided and very little time watching the equipment.


I guess you have a point there buddy:lol:


----------



## peak_reception

I thought every DISH HD thread was a "No HD Gripe" thread :scratch:

Anyway, RAD has supplied the following information about a number of channels with at least partial HD content which DISH doesn't carry:



> "Currently D* has the following HD channels that E* doesn't have, Bravo, Biography, FX, MGM, SciFi, Smithsonian, Spike, USA, CNN, CNBC, Fox Business, Weather Channel, Cinemax West, HBO West, Movie Channel, Showtime West, Showtime Too, Starz Comedy, Starz Edge, Starz Kids and Family, Speed, Tennis, that's 23 channels that DO carry HD programming that E* does not carry now"


It's worse than I thought. I'm a news junkie and currently my only choice on DN (other than evening network) for HD news is, logically enough, HDNews. Now it's true that HDNews has those pretty city skyline weather reports (four cities at a time no less) and some sports video, and some soothing fluff and fill, but they offer very little "real" news (which is usually not soothing).

I would like to view FOX News, MSNBC, and CNN in HD. The last I heard, CNN had only Anderson Cooper and (was it?) Larry King (?) in HD. Does anyone know if they've added to the HD offerings? And does CNN Headline News have any HD. I know I could probably get the quickest answer by going over to the D* threads, but the prospect of having to go over and ask there is embarrassing. Besides, someone here will know.

Why on earth isn't FOX News in HD yet?! They've got all those anchor babes and aren't taking advantage of it! They've got money to burn, or at least Rupert Murdock does; It just doesn't make any sense to me that they're letting CNN jump ahead of them on the HD front. Same with MSNBC with all that microsoft money (not to mention GE); why aren't they moving forward with HD? And finally, does CNN Headline News have any HD ? [please let Robin Meade and Morning Express be first. She's great].

I also watch CNBC off and on during the day when possible. How much of that is in HD?

BRAVO probably has their hit show "Project Runway" in HD this season. I would be P.O'ed about that too (no I'm not gay :nono: not that there's anything wrong with that) except that the new season really sucks. I know, I know, go to the show threads with details. Last year I joked with my wife (yes, wife) that I must be the only person in the country fliipping channels between Project Runway and The Contender :lol: She agreed. But seriously, if there's one show that is made for HD it's Project Runway.

Let me see... what else am I missing in HD? I guess that's about all the springs to mind looking at the channels RAD listed. I'm not a movie buff so all those don't bother me. That also makes moving down to HD Essentials less painful with the loss of HD Movies and Universal. Well, there's the Tennis Channel too but I don't get that tier. I do, however, get the VOOM tennis channel [Sport] which shows the same over-the-hill geezers (like John McEnroe) in those boutique tournaments no one cares about, over and over and over and over again. Seeing Johnny Mac running around in his 'hip' Rafael Nidal long shorts is more than I can take :lol: .

But if I might be allowed just one more small gripe without getting bounced onto the HD gripe thread, it's this: Because of the sign-up deal with AT&T/DN, I'm forced to buy local channels even though none of them are available through DN in HD. I pick them [Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo] up just fine with my big Channel Master antenna though, so why am I paying the extra $5 or $6 (forget which) for getting them in SD thru DN? Just to qualify for the AT&T/DN new subscriber deal, that's why. And that rankles too. No locals, no deal.

Ok, back on topic: So when will some more HD be turned on? That's an excellent question. Some transparency by DN would be helpful. My theory is that the new channels will be turned on just in time for the new price increases early next year. Call me cynical but that's how I see it.


----------



## James Long

peak_reception said:


> I thought every DISH HD thread was a "No HD Gripe" thread :scratch:


No ... we have _one_ of those - turning every thread into a gripe thread isn't productive.



> Ok, back on topic: So when will some more HD be turned on?


Apparently by the end of the year.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

phrelin said:


> None of the magic seven are *FX* which begins its 2nd season of "Dirt" Sunday. The one-hour commericial free series premiere of "Dirt" had 3.7 million total viewers with 2.4 million of those viewers in the coveted A18-49 demographic.
> 
> So while some watch "Dirt" in HD Sunday, on the 24/7 HD Voom channels I can watch a 2007 Canadian Football League game (shown earlier that day), one of the six showings on Sunday and Monday of the Montreux Jazz Festival 2004 with Suzanne Vega et al., or one of the 10 showings on Sunday and Monday of the "Culture and Music of Mali 2." Presumably someone will watch the repeats of these shows shown opposite "Dirt."
> 
> Also "The Riches", which debuted on FX last year to 3.8 million total viewers with an impressive 2.5M of those viewers falling in the key A18-49 demographic, will soon return. Minnie Driver was nominated for an Emmy for this show. I wonder what crap I'll get to watch on my 24/7 HD channels.
> 
> Spare me the 24/7 arguments.


The problem with this argument is that it is subjective and opinionated. I don't watch a single show on FX at all... so in my opinion it is much worse than any Voom channel because I at least have tuned to a Voom channel in the last couple of years. I haven't even tuned to FX in a couple of years!

Granted, you have some shows you like on FX... but there's nothing there for me... so if we debated whether or not the channel was worth watching, FX would be very low on my scale.

Lots of people watch "Pro" Wrestling too... but I don't... also, lots of people wanted TBSHD for the MLB playoffs last year in HD... people were screaming to get it... then many of those same people were disappointed after baseball to see virtually no HD on TBSHD after the playoffs ended... but the public got what it wanted when they demanded TBSHD be added last year!

It's fine if you don't like Voom... just like it's fine if I don't like FX or any number of a dozen other channels. but when we start talking of trading a channel you like for a channel someone else likes, that is a slippery slope. I most definately, for instance, would not want FX in HD if it meant dropping another channel because I know I will never watch FX in HD.


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

peak_reception said:


> The last I heard, CNN had only Anderson Cooper and (was it?) Larry King (?) in HD. Does anyone know if they've added to the HD offerings?


Anderson Cooper is in HD. Lou Dobbs is in HD. American Morning is in HD. This is a minimum of 6 live hours daily. All of the Election Central stuff is also in HD. If you add in the overnight replays of AC360 and Lou Dobbs - the weekday total of 10 HD hours.

Some of the weekend shows are also in HD, and more and more of the 'specials' are in HD.

I have heard that the Atlanta studio is almost done as well, right now the bulk of the HD content is from NY.


----------



## RAD

peak_reception said:


> I also watch CNBC off and on during the day when possible. How much of that is in HD?


None of the talking heads are in HD, CNBC uses all the extra 16:9 realestate for more stock quotes and news items. FBN does have their talking heads in HD in a 4:3 window using the extra 16:9 realestate like CNBC for more graphics/info.


----------



## audiomaster

Isn.t it great that 35mm film has about twice the resolution as HDTV and that producers have been shooting movies on it for decades. So HD content should be almost unlimited. Want to watch Gone With the Wind in HD? No problem. All you need is a clean transfer from the film! Maybe need to adjust the aspect ratio a little but still HD.

But doesn't that also mean that even the HD video we are shooting today is a STEP BACKWARD from what we were doing for the previous 50-60 years? :nono: 

And how long the video will last is anybody's guess.


----------



## HDlover

Hollywood is moving to 4K cameras which is the same as 35mm. 4K HD and HDTVs- your next purchase. Dish doesn't have enough bandwidth for 2K, what will they do for 4K?


----------



## peak_reception

Thanks for the add'l info DTV-Sub and RAD. It's just as well that Larry King Live isn't in HD. Not sure I'd want to see every detail there. :ewww:

JL, thanks for letting me gripe a little here. It's not like I'm the only one but I'll post any additional griping on the "official" gripe thread. When I said 


> I thought every DISH HD thread was a "No HD Gripe" thread :scratch:


 with the head scratch emoticon and all, I was just trying to inject a little humor into a situation everyone's a bit put out with.

I actually do think some more HD will be added before the end of the year. Hope so anyway. The sooner the better!


----------



## TBoneit

audiomaster said:


> Isn.t it great that 35mm film has about twice the resolution as HDTV and that producers have been shooting movies on it for decades. So HD content should be almost unlimited. Want to watch Gone With the Wind in HD? No problem. All you need is a clean transfer from the film! Maybe need to adjust the aspect ratio a little but still HD.
> 
> But doesn't that also mean that even the HD video we are shooting today is a STEP BACKWARD from what we were doing for the previous 50-60 years? :nono:
> 
> And how long the video will last is anybody's guess.


OK, I'll bite. Why would the aspect ratio need adjusting ?

Or are you a if it isn't 16:9 ratio it isn't HD type? So we should distort anything less than 16:9 to 16:9 and clip anything over 16:9? Would you call a 16:9 SD channel HD because it is 16:9 despite it being SD resolution and bitrate?

I wish the Stretch-o-Vision channels would leave the AR alone so I could tolerate watching them instead of pandering to the "I want my screen filled" crowd.

Northern Exposure was broadcast in a 4:3 format in a 1080i channel. It wasn't distorted and looked better than when it was aired. a 2:35 movie should have black bars top and bottom rather than being butchered to fit a 16:9 format.

What you should be asking yourself is why 16:9 when most older content is 4:3 or less that 16:9 or else a larger ratio than 16:9.


----------



## TBoneit

peak_reception said:


> Thanks for the add'l info DTV-Sub and RAD. It's just as well that Larry King Live isn't in HD. Not sure I'd want to see every detail there. :ewww:
> 
> JL, thanks for letting me gripe a little here. It's not like I'm the only one but I'll post any additional griping on the "official" gripe thread. When I said
> with the head scratch emoticon and all, I was just trying to inject a little humor into a situation everyone's a bit put out with.
> 
> I actually do think some more HD will be added before the end of the year. Hope so anyway. The sooner the better!


Actually with the networks broadcasting tripe and reruns I'm starting to free up a little drive space on my EHDs. The channels that people are fretting about Sci-Fi and FX are tow that they don't need to ever add on my account as I don't watch them. Now if they add TMC and FoxMo then I'd be happy.


----------



## James Long

HDlover said:


> Hollywood is moving to 4K cameras which is the same as 35mm. 4K HD and HDTVs- your next purchase. Dish doesn't have enough bandwidth for 2K, what will they do for 4K?


The same thing as DirecTV and cable ... use the bandwidth they have available and compress the content to fit.


----------



## texaswolf

TBoneit said:


> Actually with the networks broadcasting tripe and reruns I'm starting to free up a little drive space on my EHDs. The channels that people are fretting about Sci-Fi and FX are tow that they don't need to ever add on my account as I don't watch them. Now if they add TMC and FoxMo then I'd be happy.


Yeah TMC and FOXMO HD's along with MGM HD would be cool...however Sci Fi and FX, seem to be in the top five complained about not having from E* subs. I would think (hope) majority rules.


> The problem with this argument is that it is subjective and opinionated. I don't watch a single show on FX at all... so in my opinion it is much worse than any Voom channel because I at least have tuned to a Voom channel in the last couple of years. I haven't even tuned to FX in a couple of years!
> 
> Granted, you have some shows you like on FX... but there's nothing there for me... so if we debated whether or not the channel was worth watching, FX would be very low on my scale.
> 
> Lots of people watch "Pro" Wrestling too... but I don't... also, lots of people wanted TBSHD for the MLB playoffs last year in HD... people were screaming to get it... then many of those same people were disappointed after baseball to see virtually no HD on TBSHD after the playoffs ended... but the public got what it wanted when they demanded TBSHD be added last year!
> 
> It's fine if you don't like Voom... just like it's fine if I don't like FX or any number of a dozen other channels. but when we start talking of trading a channel you like for a channel someone else likes, that is a slippery slope. I most definately, for instance, would not want FX in HD if it meant dropping another channel because I know I will never watch FX in HD.


I understand what you are saying, and i agree that no channels should be replaced by another since there a viewers on both sides. However can see people being annoyed by VOOM and not havening FX ect. FX has NEW content that comes on in prime times, and that are nominated for Emmy's. Where as VOOM has shown anything new in god knows when. I would be willing to guess that the ratings are in the FX favor as well. So the frustration of not having wanted HD channels, while 15 of the ones we do have are nothing but repeats...is understandable. Now if we were sitting on the channels D* has...i bet you wouldn't be hearing as much VOOM bashing.


----------



## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Now if we were sitting on the channels D* has...i bet you wouldn't be hearing as much VOOM bashing.


Exactly ... Voom is only bad when you're wanting for something else. That's bias.

This isn't the "I hate Voom" thread ... but if one's opinion of a channel changes based on what else is offered perhaps one has the wrong standards.


----------



## texaswolf

James Long said:


> Exactly ... Voom is only bad when you're wanting for something else. That's bias.
> 
> This isn't the "I hate Voom" thread ... but if one's opinion of a channel changes based on what else is offered perhaps one has the wrong standards.


Maybe not biased....if someone is flipping through HD channels and 15 of them are repeats on VOOM, when they are not getting the channels they want...I would say more frustration is the issue.


----------



## phrelin

About the topic. At the beginning of this thread, we have a news release that says, in part:


> DISH Network today announced plans to increase its national HD channel count from 76 to 100 in 2008. The company also plans to add local HD channels in 65 new markets, bringing its HD local market total to 100.
> 
> ...DISH Network plans to launch three satellites in 2008, providing the company additional bandwidth to maintain its reign as a top HD provider.


Forgive the blank look of incomprehension on my face. Satellite launches fail. It's not like going out and starting a car where the failure rate is extremely low. On this web site it has been argued that the only thing that went wrong for Dish in the HD competition was _one satellite launch failure in 2007_ that will be taken care of with _a series of satellite launches in 2008_. Is there something I don't understand? Because IMHO there is 30% chance against all the planned new satellites being in place and in full operation by the end of the year. So I think they should have dealt with the 2007 launch failure with something other than a news release.

Frankly, despite my rant in an earlier post on this thread, I could care less if FX is in HD. It isn't about what I watch (or you watch). It isn't about bashing Voom. It's about numbers. The _*prime time*_ FX shows I mentioned in my earlier post between them attract 4 million viewers/ This means that lack of this "cable channel" would seriously hurt a satellite tv company. That's why both offer it. The lack of it in HD on Dish as a new season of this very popular programming begins may not be critical. But....

There is a public relations competition going on out there over HD channels that will reach critical mass at the digital switchover in just 12 months. Most people still are vague on the fact that the switchover isn't to HD. And IMHO for that 15 million or so who still get TV off the air, it will be easier or more attractive to buy a new HDTV than cope with installing some box between the antenna and their old TV. And at that point in time, my guess is that 5-to-8 million will start a change-over to cable or satellite rather than start screwing around with the antenna placement or a new antenna. Now what company will they switch to since they have an HD TV?

DirectTV is ahead in the "brand name" association with HD, the critical contest at this critical time. That identification gain over Dish occurred while we Dish customers were mostly _not looking at_ 15 Voom channels. Add those 15 channel numbers to the 7 that we should see soon(?) and that's 22 HD national channels, or two new sets of HD "locals" and 14 HD _programming significant_ national channels.

Right now Dish could be saying to the viewing public: "We offer all of the HD programming most of you desire plus the most desirable DVR on the market." Instead all they've got is the DRV.


lparsons21 said:


> And I also agree that Dish has the best HDDVR on the market. But I spend most of my time viewing the channels provided and very little time watching the equipment.


Right on! The box becomes a paperweight without content. Just ask Sony about Betamax or Toshiba about HD-DVD. In the beginning of new home entertainment trends, quality hardware design is curiously attractive. In the end, it's all about perception of the choices of content available.

So every time a Dish news release appears that so vague about the future of HD its meaningless, I'm going to be irked. Because for 20 years I've been irrationally tied to the success of Echostar/Dish.


----------



## texaswolf

phrelin said:


> About the topic. At the beginning of this thread, we have a news release that says, in part:Forgive the blank look of incomprehension on my face. Satellite launches fail. It's not like going out and starting a car where the failure rate is extremely low. On this web site it has been argued that the only thing that went wrong for Dish in the HD competition was _one satellite launch failure in 2007_ that will be taken care of with _a series of satellite launches in 2008_. Is there something I don't understand? Because IMHO there is 30% chance against all the planned new satellites being in place and in full operation by the end of the year. So I think they should have dealt with the 2007 launch failure with something other than a news release.
> 
> Frankly, despite my rant in an earlier post on this thread, I could care less if FX is in HD. It isn't about what I watch (or you watch). It isn't about bashing Voom. It's about numbers. The _*prime time*_ FX shows I mentioned in my earlier post between them attract 4 million viewers/ This means that lack of this "cable channel" would seriously hurt a satellite tv company. That's why both offer it. The lack of it in HD on Dish as a new season of this very popular programming begins may not be critical. But....
> 
> There is a public relations competition going on out there over HD channels that will reach critical mass at the digital switchover in just 12 months. Most people still are vague on the fact that the switchover isn't to HD. And IMHO for that 15 million or so who still get TV off the air, it will be easier or more attractive to buy a new HDTV than cope with installing some box between the antenna and their old TV. And at that point in time, my guess is that 5-to-8 million will start a change-over to cable or satellite rather than start screwing around with the antenna placement or a new antenna. Now what company will they switch to since they have an HD TV?
> 
> DirectTV is ahead in the "brand name" association with HD, the critical contest at this critical time. That identification gain over Dish occurred while we Dish customers were mostly _not looking at_ 15 Voom channels. Add those 15 channel numbers to the 7 that we should see soon(?) and that's 22 HD national channels, or two new sets of HD "locals" and 14 HD _programming significant_ national channels.
> 
> Right now Dish could be saying to the viewing public: "We offer all of the HD programming most of you desire plus the most desirable DVR on the market." Instead all they've got is the DRV. Right on! The box becomes a paperweight without content. Just ask Sony about Betamax or Toshiba about HD-DVD. In the beginning of new home entertainment trends, quality hardware design is curiously attractive. In the end, it's all about perception of the choices of content available.
> 
> So every time a Dish news release appears that so vague about the future of HD its meaningless, I'm going to be irked. Because for 20 years I've been irrationally tied to the success of Echostar/Dish.


:biggthump Bada Bing


----------



## HarveyLA

from "Swanni," the TV-Hi Tech crystal ball gazer:
(note- he has the number of satellites wrong- it's 4 Dish Network satellites this year.)

http://www.tvpredictions.com/askswanni030208.htm

Q. Do you know why Dish Network hasn't launched any new HDTV channels lately? -- Dee W.
Dish Network now has roughly 75 national HD channels and the company has committed to offering 100 by year's end. However, it appears that you won't see most of the new additions until the second half of the year after Dish's new satellite is operational. (The new satellite is scheduled for launch this month.)

Like DIRECTV, Dish appears to have little room at this time for more high-def channels; they both need more satellite space to expand further. That said, you might see a few more (from both satcasters) in the next month or so.


----------



## James Long

Not to get into Swanni bashing, but he isn't the most reliable source. Sometimes he guesses like the rest of us (just doesn't label it as such).

What is the 4th satellite? The one going up for the Olympics that won't serve the US?


----------



## HarveyLA

_Not to get into Swanni bashing, but he isn't the most reliable source. Sometimes he guesses like the rest of us (just doesn't label it as such).

What is the 4th satellite? The one going up for the Olympics that won't serve the US?
_
The "four satellites" came from the other recent story by "Swanni:"

_"Dish said last month that it plans to launch four new satellites this year to increase its high-def capacity."_

But the Dish press release in January said three satellites- so that is probably correct.

I guess we'll find out soon whether Swanni is correct about a few new HD channels in the next month or so. (of course that wouldn't prove he has an inside source- could still be a lucky guess). But it doesn't take a "Swanni" to figure out that there probably won't be any major expansion until the second half of the year (after Echostar XI is launched and tested).


----------



## Jim5506

Dish is preparing to launch HD locals.

National channels are on the back burner.


----------



## TBoneit

I suspect that HD locals are more important to many then national HD channels.


----------



## booger

If the satellite launch is successful this month, how long does it typically take to 'go-live'?


----------



## Hunter Green

TBoneit said:


> I suspect that HD locals are more important to many then national HD channels.


They're completely unimportant to people who already have their own HD locals, of course! And for almost all of the rest of us, absolutely the most important HD to get. (Those of us on the "by the end of 2006" list especially!)


----------



## TBoneit

booger said:


> If the satellite launch is successful this month, how long does it typically take to 'go-live'?


As I remember it first the satellite needs to be moved to a test location and then after testing to the final oribtal location where it will be used. These moves use fuel which is a major part of the operational life for the satellite. So a slower move will use less fuel allowing a longer life. Faster movement will shorten life. So it becomes a balancing act between need for speed and lifetime.

My guess, Gazing into my crystal ball, is 6 weeks. This presumes a good launch vs a poor launch vs a "OMG" the dang thing blew up. Then presuming a usable launch is there any damage from the launch etc. Note that D* last Satellite had Spot beam problems discovered in testing. Fortunate for them it was only spot beams and not national beams.

Good Launch = Right where we wanted it to save fuel and operational.
Poor launch = It can be put into position but more fuel will be used to move it there and/or some minor launch damage.
Bad launch = It Blows up or is orbited in a unusable condition or location. Search out Sea Launch problem.

Links to some Bad Sea Launch.
http://spaceflightnow.com/sealaunch/ico1/000330software.html

This is the reason for the delayed launches.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1776386/posts
http://www.universetoday.com/2007/01/31/rocket-detonates-on-the-sea-launch-platform/

Link to recoverable poor launches.
http://spaceflightnow.com/sealaunch/t18/

Nothing is guarenteed in life


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## James Long

Thanks for the details.


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## leftheaded

any word if CNBC will be offered in HD by Dish ?

I know that the broadcast resolution is only used for more graphics, but I have the new HD-only package, so I can't get the channel unless it's in "HD".


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## texaswolf

leftheaded said:


> any word if CNBC will be offered in HD by Dish ?
> 
> I know that the broadcast resolution is only used for more graphics, but I have the new HD-only package, so I can't get the channel unless it's in "HD".


Dunno..i think the only channel that was guaranteed (maybe) is TWC, since they had mentioned DIsh in it's news release about plans of going 24/7 HD...unless i missed another news release.


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## nneptune

Well, I'm looking forward to ANYTHING new...and hopefully soon!


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## HarveyLA

Public TV stations complain to FCC: _"Even after the announcement of public television's voluntary agreement with DirecTV, Dish has refused to negotiate in good faith for carriage of local public television signals in HD."

A Dish spokesman declined comment on the issue._

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6537711.html?industryid=47174


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## texaswolf

HarveyLA said:


> Public TV stations complain to FCC: _"Even after the announcement of public television's voluntary agreement with DirecTV, Dish has refused to negotiate in good faith for carriage of local public television signals in HD."
> 
> A Dish spokesman declined comment on the issue._
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6537711.html?industryid=47174


Whats also interesting is the related article about Rainbow Media's suit against E*...apparently E* want's to move the VOOMs to a lower tier? Interesting.


----------



## booger

TBoneit said:


> As I remember it first the satellite needs to be moved to a test location and then after testing to the final oribtal location where it will be used. These moves use fuel which is a major part of the operational life for the satellite. So a slower move will use less fuel allowing a longer life. Faster movement will shorten life. So it becomes a balancing act between need for speed and lifetime.
> 
> My guess, Gazing into my crystal ball, is 6 weeks. This presumes a good launch vs a poor launch vs a "OMG" the dang thing blew up. Then presuming a usable launch is there any damage from the launch etc. Note that D* last Satellite had Spot beam problems discovered in testing. Fortunate for them it was only spot beams and not national beams.
> 
> Good Launch = Right where we wanted it to save fuel and operational.
> Poor launch = It can be put into position but more fuel will be used to move it there and/or some minor launch damage.
> Bad launch = It Blows up or is orbited in a unusable condition or location. Search out Sea Launch problem.
> 
> Links to some Bad Sea Launch.
> http://spaceflightnow.com/sealaunch/ico1/000330software.html
> 
> This is the reason for the delayed launches.
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1776386/posts
> http://www.universetoday.com/2007/01/31/rocket-detonates-on-the-sea-launch-platform/
> 
> Link to recoverable poor launches.
> http://spaceflightnow.com/sealaunch/t18/
> 
> Nothing is guarenteed in life


Excellent info.... Thanks!


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## tomcrown1

HarveyLA said:


> Public TV stations complain to FCC: _"Even after the announcement of public television's voluntary agreement with DirecTV, Dish has refused to negotiate in good faith for carriage of local public television signals in HD."
> 
> A Dish spokesman declined comment on the issue._
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6537711.html?industryid=47174


Is dish on its way out?? It looks like Direct Tv will have a big say on the HD stations that must be carried by satellite owners.

This may hurt dish as it may not have the same amount of bandwidth as Direct Tv. Can this lead to a merger between dish and Direct Tv??

Very interesting airticle.


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## James Long

texaswolf said:


> Whats also interesting is the related article about Rainbow Media's suit against E*...apparently E* want's to move the VOOMs to a lower tier? Interesting.


You are misreading it.

Cablevision want Voom in the lowest tier ... not in an extra cost tier like "HD Ultimate" where DISH has now placed it. E* doesn't want Voom in a lower tier, they want it in a higher tier.


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## Paul Secic

James Long said:


> Not to get into Swanni bashing, but he isn't the most reliable source. Sometimes he guesses like the rest of us (just doesn't label it as such).
> 
> What is the 4th satellite? The one going up for the Olympics that won't serve the US?


Swanni speaks in half truths and I bypass him now.


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## texaswolf

James Long said:


> You are misreading it.
> 
> Cablevision want Voom in the lowest tier ... not in an extra cost tier like "HD Ultimate" where DISH has now placed it. E* doesn't want Voom in a lower tier, they want it in a higher tier.


ahhhh ok..thanks for the clarification.


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## phrelin

tomcrown1 said:


> Is dish on its way out?? It looks like Direct Tv will have a big say on the HD stations that must be carried by satellite owners.
> 
> This may hurt dish as it may not have the same amount of bandwidth as Direct Tv. Can this lead to a merger between dish and Direct Tv??
> 
> Very interesting airticle.


The possibility of merger is always there. But I can't get real excited about PBS in my local area - SFO. Dish is carrying no less than 4, yep 4, SD Bay Area PBS stations - all of which seek local donations and show somewhat different programming schedules - thats schedules, not much different programming itself.

To have to waste bandwidth on 4 HD PBS stations would be stupid.

However, they've given Direct an edge that was not necessary to concede.


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## TBoneit

I suppose it would be nice to have the 3 PBS stations from my area, NYC, in HD however. 

When I look at the HD feeds from NJN the quality isn't there on any of the four they supply. On WLIW I don't know what they do to it but I'd rather watch the Dish SD feed or the OTA SD feed. and yes I've done comparisons as I can toggle back and forth on the tuner between the SD & HD feeds. WNET is the only one that seems to do HD right.

however I like british shows such as 'Allo ' Allo on NJN and others on WLIW such as Rosemary & Thyme and Mystery which is how they differentiate themselves from each other. 

BTW I get my HD Locals feed off of basic cable. I'd like to try their HD DVR but the cost of that would at least Double my bill.

OT:
Advertisement for free HD by Cable. Ha! If I didn't have basic cable then I wouldn't be able to tune the "FREE HD" channels.


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## jrb531

TBoneit said:


> I suspect that HD locals are more important to many then national HD channels.


Only if you do not already have them 

If you already have your locals then more national HD channels is the priority 

-JB


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## James Long

Or if you are in a market where local HD is so far off the map that 2010 is "wishful thinking".


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## Beanie

Heck, I would be happy with locals of any kind......


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## HarveyLA

Dish Network now agrees to negotiate, to carry PBS locals in HD. It's not clear when this might happen, but could be linked to the "phasing in" of all HD locals starting next February (under pressure from the FCC).

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6538706.html?industryid=47170


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## phrelin

Regarding the locals vs nationals HD, some might think the best business strategy would be to get the nationals up first so that the brand is associated with HD while others.... Oh I forgot, that's DirectTV's strategy and the satellites this year are for locals.


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## Paul Secic

phrelin said:


> The possibility of merger is always there. But I can't get real excited about PBS in my local area - SFO. Dish is carrying no less than 4, yep 4, SD Bay Area PBS stations - all of which seek local donations and show somewhat different programming schedules - thats schedules, not much different programming itself.
> 
> To have to waste bandwidth on 4 HD PBS stations would be stupid.
> 
> However, they've given Direct an edge that was not necessary to concede.


Don't ya just love KRON4 The Bay Area's news channel? Young Broadcasting sucked everything out of the former NBC affiliate. They hired a firm to sell the station in January. They owe $300 million. They're aren't very smart. NBC wanted to buy KRON in 2000 but they said no. Most of the programming is infomercials & MyTVnetwork.


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## phrelin

Paul Secic said:


> Don't ya just love KRON4 The Bay Area's news channel? Young Broadcasting sucked everything out of the former NBC affiliate. They hired a firm to sell the station in January. They owe $300 million. They're aren't very smart. NBC wanted to buy KRON in 2000 but they said no. Most of the programming is infomercials & MyTVnetwork.


While KNTV is doing a fine job, it was a disaster to lose KRON's strength in the Bay Area. And it will never be "MY" TVnetwork.:lol:


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## phrelin

According to this chart updated today, I'm getting HD West feeds for Cinemax, HBO, Showtime and Starz.:sure:

Of course, Dish hadn't turned on the "ghostly seven" so anyone contemplating HD that likes program on SciFi, USA, etc. and who uses Cnet ratings will not select Dish for however many months or years that chart stays on Cnet. Fortunately, that's the tech oriented crowd that satellite wouldn't appeal too.

By the way, there is much speculation that Dish can't turn them on because of contract problems. If that turns out to be true, its unconscionable.


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## James Long

What? You expect DISH to act like hackers, steal the signals and deliver them to us _without_ permission?

No contract no carry ...


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## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> What? You expect DISH to act like hackers, steal the signals and deliver them to us _without_ permission?
> 
> No contract no carry ...


I'm always amazed when folks are quick to blame Dish in contract negotiations. Like "they" say about arguing... it takes two... it similarly takes two to negotiate a carriage contract, and we really don't know what is being asked and what Dish is offering.

We've seen too many times where Dish will hold out for a better deal, then DirecTV goes back and renegotiates for the same deal... which tends to indicate that at least some of the time Dish is doing the right thing.

Also, as I've said before... right now is not "go time" for channels like SciFi and USA HD anyway in terms of gotta-have programming... so while it is probably true that Dish may hold-off trying to pay top dollar and the networks try to push for that when new shows are coming up... the reverse is probably also true and networks may drag their feet in negotiations during the hiatus periods, hoping to be able to demand more money in a couple of months during sweeps programming.


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## jclewter79

Well, maybe not for you HDme but, I would upgrade today if I could get me some WWE HD. For some USA and Sci-Fi are must have and have been for many weeks.


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## phrelin

James Long said:


> What? You expect DISH to act like hackers, steal the signals and deliver them to us _without_ permission?
> 
> No contract no carry ...


Nope. I expect a successful contract negotiation on our behalf. Do you think my expectations too high?


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## James Long

If you expect DISH to roll over and play dead, yes.

DISH Network is not going to pay too much for that program. Providers know that. Providers who want their programs seen have to respond in better ways than simply withholding the programs. HD has not reached critical mass ... the providers can afford not to be on all providers. But providers should not count on viewers changing their services to find their programming. At least, not forever.


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## Greg Bimson

HDMe said:


> We've seen too many times where Dish will hold out for a better deal, then DirecTV goes back and renegotiates for the same deal... which tends to indicate that at least some of the time Dish is doing the right thing.


Playing devil's advocate here, but have we really seen that? I don't know of one case where this happened.


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## James Long

BTN? Lifetime?

We don't get the details of the outcome ... all we get are the channels. But there do seem to be a few winners out there. Unfortunately the practice of not caving in does lend itself to calling on courts and the FCC to resolve differences.


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## DirecTV-Sub

Greg Bimson said:


> Playing devil's advocate here, but have we really seen that? I don't know of one case where this happened.


I was also thinking the same thing. HDMe - some specific examples please.


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## phrelin

James Long said:


> Unfortunately the practice of not caving in does lend itself to calling on courts and the FCC to resolve differences.


It's a problem. A thought along the devil's advocate line. If the FCC is going to make noises about satellite companies providing "all the locals in a market in HD" maybe the satellite companies should start make noises about the FCC requiring a regulated uniform pricing schedule for each channel delivered by each cable and satellite company. No special deals.


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## Greg Bimson

James Long said:


> BTN? Lifetime?
> 
> We don't get the details of the outcome ... all we get are the channels. But there do seem to be a few winners out there. Unfortunately the practice of not caving in does lend itself to calling on courts and the FCC to resolve differences.


Okay, but the quote here is, "We've seen too many times where Dish will hold out for a better deal, then DirecTV goes back and renegotiates for the same deal..." For BTN, DirecTV did the deal first, Dish Network got it the second week of the football season, and we don't know for a fact what the deal is. DirecTV didn't go back and demand anything.

For Lifetime, Dish Network pulled Lifetime and their networks from the channel line-up, but then signed an exhorbitant contract with Hearst for retransmission of the local channels that were bundled into the expired deal. When the smoke cleared from the Dish Network/Lifetime agreement, DirecTV sued Lifetime. If Dish Network managed to get a better deal, it violated the contract Lifetime signed with DirecTV. That litigation was resolved with an out-of-court settlement.

Lifetime is the only issue I can think where Dish Network truly received a better deal than DirecTV which caused DirecTV to renegotiate. That was because the negotation team at Lifetime were a bunch of rank amateurs, and it cost them on the rest of their carriage contracts with most favored nation pricing to multichannel vendors as well. Lifetime "caved" on one negotiation, and it hurt them pretty well.

And it is entirely possible DirecTV then received better pricing than Dish Network, not by receiving the same deal as Dish Network, but possibly getting a better deal.


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## Stewart Vernon

DirecTV-Sub said:


> I was also thinking the same thing. HDMe - some specific examples please.


James beat me to it, and I'm too lazy to search through the forum tonight anyway... I'm sure the threads where we beat this stuff to death last year are still around, but Lifetime does come to mind at first thought.

It seems like there was another similar deal where Dish took a channel or two down for a short time, but I can't remember off the top of my head. I may be thinking about CourtTV though, and that might be a horse of a different color.


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## James Long

I believe that most often DISH ended up with a better deal because they were tough at a negotiation table. Without specific access to the contracts and negotiations (which is generally confidential and sealed in most court filings, if it gets that far) it is only a gut feeling. The only "proof" we have is when something public that a party has demanded (placement in AT100 instead of AT200) is or is not granted when a channel returns.

But the second half ... DirecTV going back and getting a better deal ... I cannot vouch for. Primarily because I don't follow DirecTV that closely. I do believe that if DISH folded in negotiations that the providers would push up their rates until someone had the guts to say NO! and fight.

DISH's pain threshold seems to be the lowest and they seem to be the most willing to fight. And yet, they still manage to turn a profit. I suppose they know what they are doing.


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## RAD

If Dish/Charlie are so tough with content providers to get good pricing how come the price difference between E* and D* are so small?


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## James Long

Dish has 3 million less customers ... the fixed costs of running a satellite company (and all the satellites) are spread out across less people.


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## RAD

James Long said:


> Dish has 3 million less customers ... the fixed costs of running a satellite company (and all the satellites) are spread out across less people.


But he uses offshore call centers which helps reduce people expenses, which usually are a large costs to business. He also leases satellites which is supposed to be cheaper then building/launching your own. He purchase one satellite, Rainbow 1, at a firesale price.


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## DirecTV-Sub

All I seem to read here are excuses for everything going on at DN. I was a customer for just under 7 years, and they have more than their share of fault (as they all do).

They don't answer to any higher cause than their pockets.


----------



## James Long

RAD said:


> But he uses offshore call centers which helps reduce people expenses, which usually are a large costs to business. He also leases satellites which is supposed to be cheaper then building/launching your own. He purchase one satellite, Rainbow 1, at a firesale price.


Setting prices is more than one issue ... and of course it is a drift of this thread.

This isn't a general bash dish thread. Let's get back to the topic.


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## Kman68

James Long said:


> Setting prices is more than one issue ... and of course it is a drift of this thread.
> 
> This isn't a general bash dish thread. Let's get back to the topic.


Back to the topic.

Over the past two days, winds have been very strong in SW FL. I seem to have lost Transponder 19 on Satellite 61.5. While exploring Set Up>Installation>Point Dish I noticed Signal Strength from three satellites not in the Line Up. The locations are 77, 111 and 118. Are these HD expansions satellites being moved in position or are they for BTV and International Packages?


----------



## James Long

77° is new ... nothing announced for there yet but possibly some HD locals will show up.
118° has been on the list for a long time ... it was used for HD locals initially but now DISH is moving internationals there and clearing off 61.5° and 121°. I'd bet that the HD on 118° will be moving off to 61.5° or another location.

111° ? Not on my point dish.
The current locations on my receiver are -
61.5°, 77°, 105°, 110°, 118°, 119°, 121°, 129°, 148°

(105° and 121° are the old "SuperDish" satellites.)


----------



## Stewart Vernon

James Long said:


> I'd bet that the HD on 118° will be moving off to 61.5° or another location.


And if they do this, it will continue the tradition of round-robin dish upgrades in the field that they will create work for themselves... since many of us have our locals in HD on 118 and are pointed at 129 instead of 61.5... plus the RSNs that are on 129 and not on 61.5.. I hope they are planning, but honestly this is one area I don't give Dish a lot of credit for advance planning because I myself have had multiple dish repoints/new sats added over my time just because of things moving around counter to what seems intuitive.


----------



## James Long

It is easier to second guess after the fact. I believe DISH overestimated the potential of the SuperDish (possibly blaming it's problems on the H/V polarity) took a chance on the Plus dish (with easier to aim circular polarity). What I hope they have learned is that FSS Ku @ 2° spacing is no where near as good as good old fashioned DBS.

The easiest dish to install is a Dish 300 with a Dish 500 not far behind. Seeing DISH go back to the basics (reliable high powered DBS) in the future doesn't surprise me. In the end they will end up with a much better system. Not without some growing pains, but better overall.

I'm not worried about the RSNs ... those are easy enough to put anywhere (especially in MPEG4). I'd be surprised if they had more than six HD game feeds hot at one time. With the rest showing that "check back later" slate it doesn't take much bandwidth to have the HD RSNs on two satellites.

A year from now I expect we will be seeing more "east" and "west" installs and the typical install of today won't be seen. Meanwhile DirecTV will continue to install their large ka dishes (since they don't have DBS bandwidth for an MPEG4 transition). Stick around ... it only gets better!


----------



## rey_1178

Kman68 said:


> Back to the topic.
> 
> Over the past two days, winds have been very strong in SW FL. I seem to have lost Transponder 19 on Satellite 61.5. While exploring Set Up>Installation>Point Dish I noticed Signal Strength from three satellites not in the Line Up. The locations are 77, 111 and 118. Are these HD expansions satellites being moved in position or are they for BTV and International Packages?


 dish got over 100 calls today from florida customers with the same issue including me. i believe this was fixed since i got the signal for tp19 back about an hour ago.
hope it stays.


----------



## Richard King

Interesting. I had no idea what was happening, but I, also had the Tr. 19 problem. Anyone outside of Florida have this problem? I can confirm it is back on now.


----------



## rey_1178

FINALLY! we have names of channels dish will put on for us. charlie says between now and summer we'll have most of these.


----------



## James Long

> ABC Family ... AMC ... BET ... Biography ... Bravo
> Cartoon Network ... CNN ... CMT ... Disney ... ESPN News
> HBO2 ... IFC ... MGMHD ... MTV ... MoreMAX
> Nickelodeon ... Sci-Fi ... Smithsonian ... Starz Edge ... Tennis
> Toon Disney ... USA Network ... VH1 ... The Weather Channel ... WGN


Considering that DISH's CES claim was now 76, 100 by end of year and they gave us a list of 25 channels that are missing a couple known HDs it looks like the end of the year will be more than 24 new channels.

_"Nobody is going to have more HD channels than we are."_


----------



## DirecTV-Sub

So - no new HD until AFTER the new sat is up - no real news here as I see it. Exactly as expected.


----------



## FogCutter

Between now and summer. Hmmm. So does that mean the summer solstice? July 4th? Labor Day? The first frost? 

At least we have the channel names.


----------



## tsmacro

DirecTV-Sub said:


> So - no new HD until AFTER the new sat is up - no real news here as I see it. Exactly as expected.


Actually no where was it said that there would be no HD until the new satellite was up. What was said is there would be new HD once an agreement "that was fair to everyone" could be reached with the channels. In fact Charlie indicated that there was bandwith available for new HD right now, which everyone around here had already pretty much figured out months ago anyway. By the way are you a unhappy Directv subscribing who's considering switching to Dish? I'm just wondering because it seems i've seen you post a few times about Dish's HD lineup several times now and unless you were considering switching I was trying to figure out why a Directv customer would even care?


----------



## dirchm0628

tsmacro said:


> Actually no where was it said that there would be no HD until the new satellite was up. What was said is there would be new HD once an agreement "that was fair to everyone" could be reached with the channels. In fact Charlie indicated that there was bandwith available for new HD right now, which everyone around here had already pretty much figured out months ago anyway. By the way are you a unhappy Directv subscribing who's considering switching to Dish? I'm just wondering because it seems i've seen you post a few times about Dish's HD lineup several times now and unless you were considering switching I was trying to figure out why a Directv customer would even care?


This is the first time I've posted in the dish network forums and as a Direct Tv customer I can say if Dish gets Norfolk's locals up before DTV. Goodbye DTV. About 80 percent of what I watch is on ABC, NBC, Fox,CBS. I do have an antenna hooked up to my HR20 but the signal is still more affected by weather than DTV.


----------



## jrb531

DirecTV-Sub said:


> All I seem to read here are excuses for everything going on at DN. I was a customer for just under 7 years, and they have more than their share of fault (as they all do).
> 
> They don't answer to any higher cause than their pockets.


Some people here think Dish walks on water 

Dish can and has never done anything wrong. They are perfect and will always be so. Sure some are on the payroll for Dish. Dish would be stupid not to have at least an employee or two "pretending" to be an unbiased customer here... I'm sure all major companies monitor popular forums.

It's not to hard to see the "plants" LOL here. Those that "never" say anything bad about Dish. They only chime in to defend them. In fact they probably have multiple screen names. Why have 10 people pop in when you can have 1 person with 10 screen names.

Not trying to "Black helecopter" this but I really have to laugh at some of these "Dish rules" posts that you see time and again. Even when Dish is blatently wrong they find a way to defend them or at best they suddenly turn into clay people and disappear into the walls 

I have a good handle on who they are. Of course "they" know who they are but the next time you read some of these posts keep in mind that everyone is not who they "seem" to be.... it makes reading some of the re-worded Dish company line a bit easier.

To be fair... I'm sure D* does the very same thing.

-JB


----------



## nlk10010

You don't need to be affected by anything of that nature (if it exists).

Just focus on what the provider (D* or E* or whichever) actually _has_ and you'll be fine.

You don't need my advice but it doesn't hurt for everyone to be reminded that providers need to _show_ subscribers what they have, not tell them what they're _going to_ have.


----------



## James Long

So, jrb351, do you work for DirecTV? Are you a plant put here to stir up trouble? It seems that your main purpose of joining is to complain about DISH ... especially their fees. Why is it that people should assume that you are an independent and not controlled but the other black helicopters?

This isn't the place to make the accusations you are making ... so kindly cease and get back to the topic of new HD on DISH Network in 2008.

:backtotop


----------



## James Long

nlk10010 said:


> You don't need my advice but it doesn't hurt for everyone to be reminded that providers need to _show_ subscribers what they have, not tell them what they're _going to_ have.


DISH made the mistake a few years ago to get into the promises game ... now they have taken the tact of selling what they have. Last night's Charlie Chat was the most specific information they have given in a while - but still not specific enough to "get them in trouble".

They have a decent plan ... and part of that plan is to be vague and not make specific promises they can't keep. Why hasn't DISH said more? Why hasn't DirecTV explained their DLB issue fully? It isn't good business to sell what you don't have.

Focus on the positive ... and no, that doesn't mean being positive DISH is bad!


----------



## jrb531

James Long said:


> So, jrb351, do you work for DirecTV? Are you a plant put here to stir up trouble? It seems that your main purpose of joining is to complain about DISH ... especially their fees. Why is it that people should assume that you are an independent and not controlled but the other black helicopters?
> 
> This isn't the place to make the accusations you are making ... so kindly cease and get back to the topic of new HD on DISH Network in 2008.
> 
> :backtotop


I complain about one fee and we both know what that is. I do say nice things about Dish when they deserve it. I have always proclaimed that the 622/722 is the best DVR box out there. In fact it's why I stay with Dish and why the fee upsets me so... I want another 622!

Anyone can look at my post history and see both good and bad... maybe a bit more bad than good but at least "some" good. Can this be said for everyone? 

On now back on topic 

-JB

P.S. To keep this post on topic.... I look forward to more excellent HD programming from Dish this year! 

P.P.S. The $40 "turn on external HD backup drive" fee is BS too


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## jgurley

jrb531 said:


> Some people here think Dish walks on water
> 
> Dish can and has never done anything wrong. They are perfect and will always be so. Sure some are on the payroll for Dish. Dish would be stupid not to have at least an employee or two "pretending" to be an unbiased customer here... I'm sure all major companies monitor popular forums.
> 
> It's not to hard to see the "plants" LOL here. Those that "never" say anything bad about Dish. They only chime in to defend them. In fact they probably have multiple screen names. Why have 10 people pop in when you can have 1 person with 10 screen names.
> 
> Not trying to "Black helecopter" this but I really have to laugh at some of these "Dish rules" posts that you see time and again. Even when Dish is blatently wrong they find a way to defend them or at best they suddenly turn into clay people and disappear into the walls
> 
> I have a good handle on who they are. Of course "they" know who they are but the next time you read some of these posts keep in mind that everyone is not who they "seem" to be.... it makes reading some of the re-worded Dish company line a bit easier.
> 
> To be fair... I'm sure D* does the very same thing.
> 
> -JB


And Lee Harvey Oswald was a distant relative of John Wilkes Booth :hurah:


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## DirecTV-Sub

tsmacro said:


> Actually no where was it said that there would be no HD until the new satellite was up. What was said is there would be new HD once an agreement "that was fair to everyone" could be reached with the channels. In fact Charlie indicated that there was bandwith available for new HD right now, which everyone around here had already pretty much figured out months ago anyway. By the way are you a unhappy Directv subscribing who's considering switching to Dish? I'm just wondering because it seems i've seen you post a few times about Dish's HD lineup several times now and unless you were considering switching I was trying to figure out why a Directv customer would even care?


No a former 7 year DN sub - who grew tired of the continued 'agreements fair to everyone' arguments. The reality is these are only fair to Mr. Ergen as I see it.

I care - I gave them my money and lots of it. BTW, now that I have made the change, I am a happy D* customer, but that is besides the point. If you listen to the D* analyst call, it is said that the HD versions of these channels are NO EXTRA CHARGE. What fair agreement is DN waiting for?


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## James Long

Got proof that the same deal is being offered to DISH?


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## nlk10010

James Long said:


> DISH made the mistake a few years ago to get into the promises game ... now they have taken the tact of selling what they have. Last night's Charlie Chat was the most specific information they have given in a while - but still not specific enough to "get them in trouble".
> 
> They have a decent plan ... and part of that plan is to be vague and not make specific promises they can't keep. Why hasn't DISH said more? Why hasn't DirecTV explained their DLB issue fully? It isn't good business to sell what you don't have.
> 
> Focus on the positive ... and no, that doesn't mean being positive DISH is bad!


I don't really care what tack they're taking. Each subscriber has to evaluate what Dish (and D*) has now _and what they could logically expect given any hard information offered by the provider_ and then decide which alternative is better for them. Don't rely on promises or vague information. IMO Charlie offered nothing specific last night that would indicate we're likely to get anything but a few low-cost national HD channels before the end of this year, beginning of 2009 (although I was surprised by how many names he did throw around) If his feeling is that vagueness is going to help him keep subscribers I think he's wrong (but then he's the billionaire).

There are reasons to prefer E* (e.g. equipment, locals) but national HD "ain't" one of them.


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## HobbyTalk

jrb531 said:


> To be fair... I'm sure D* does the very same thing.


Whew..... sure glad I have my tinfoil hat on!


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## tsmacro

DirecTV-Sub said:


> No a former 7 year DN sub - who grew tired of the continued 'agreements fair to everyone' arguments. The reality is these are only fair to Mr. Ergen as I see it.
> 
> I care - I gave them my money and lots of it. BTW, now that I have made the change, I am a happy D* customer, but that is besides the point. If you listen to the D* analyst call, it is said that the HD versions of these channels are NO EXTRA CHARGE. What fair agreement is DN waiting for?


Ok, cool, I was just wondering why a Directv customer cared about what Dish what dish may or may not be adding if they weren't thinking of switching. Basically sounds like you're just checking in on the old neighborhood then. Hope you're enjoying your HD!


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## DirecTV-Sub

James Long said:


> Got proof that the same deal is being offered to DISH?


Given that Chase Carey is willing to say it in public for analysts, it isn't much of a stretch to believe that if similar agreements weren't available for competitors it very likely would be illegal to do in the first place. DN would be suing in a heartbeat if its rival had that type of pricing advantage. And since Carey says it is true in 'GENERAL' that also would lead me believe that DN would have similar rights.

Unlike others, I would _NeVeR_ believe the company line 100% and defend them to the death. And that is for ALL these companies, not just DN.


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## DirecTV-Sub

tsmacro said:


> Ok, cool, I was just wondering why a Directv customer cared about what Dish what dish may or may not be adding if they weren't thinking of switching. Basically sounds like you're just checking in on the old neighborhood then. Hope you're enjoying your HD!


I do not dislike DN, I was just extremely disgusted with their lack of communication and integrity regarding HD channel launches, and how they are now marketing their product as though they are still leading the pack - when clearly they are not.

Hey, I'll switch back if I feel they are again a bettter choice for me. It is only TV. I am truly amazed at the cult following some give to DN.


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## Mikey

DirecTV-Sub said:


> ... It is only TV. I am truly amazed at the cult following some give to DN.


Uh huh. This coming from someone who names himself after his satellite provider.


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## rey_1178

tsmacro said:


> Actually no where was it said that there would be no HD until the new satellite was up. What was said is there would be new HD once an agreement "that was fair to everyone" could be reached with the channels. In fact Charlie indicated that there was bandwith available for new HD right now, which everyone around here had already pretty much figured out months ago anyway. By the way are you a unhappy Directv subscribing who's considering switching to Dish? I'm just wondering because it seems i've seen you post a few times about Dish's HD lineup several times now and unless you were considering switching I was trying to figure out why a Directv customer would even care?


exactly. and if you're an ex E customer why come here with any negative comments? This is for current E customers. we don't need more negativity around here. nothing personal buddy. :kisshead:


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## msmith198025

DirecTV-Sub said:


> Hey, I'll switch back if I feel they are again a bettter choice for me. It is only TV. I am truly amazed at the cult following some give to DN.


Or D* for that matter.
Edit: this was not in reference to your name.


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## James Long

DirecTV-Sub said:


> Given that Chase Carey is willing to say it in public for analysts,
> 
> Unlike others, I would _NeVeR_ believe the company line 100% and defend them to the death. And that is for ALL these companies, not just DN.


You'll believe the company line if it comes from DirecTV.

I believe you're in the wrong forum. Go enjoy your channels! I asked if you had proof (easy answer, "no") not for more chaff.


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## texaswolf

rey_1178 said:


> exactly. and if you're an ex E customer why come here with any negative comments? This is for current E customers. we don't need more negativity around here. nothing personal buddy. :kisshead:


Considering the amount of people here that want Sci FI, if we don't get it by the time BSG rolls out the new season, (April 4th) ....be ready for a fresh batch of negativity by the Sci FI group.


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## rey_1178

personally i'm happy we got some new info last night and we're not in limbo any more


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## phrelin

Rarely being an optimist (just ask my wife), nonetheless I wrote in the Charlie Chat thread:


phrelin said:


> So they had Trisha Helfer, Number Six from "Battlestar Galactica". From that I'm going to assume that I'll have SciFi HD by the season premier of BG on April 4.


One would have to be beyond stupid to have had her on and not have the show's new season in HD. I don't see Charlie as "beyond stupid" yet.:grin:


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## DirecTV-Sub

Nah - after trying to believe DN, I won't believe any of these guys - it's all spin. I do hope you all get what you are spinning so hard for though.


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## BobaBird

phrelin said:


> Rarely being an optimist (just ask my wife), nonetheless I wrote in the Charlie Chat thread:
> 
> 
> 
> So they had Trisha Helfer, Number Six from "Battlestar Galactica". From that I'm going to assume that I'll have SciFi HD by the season premier of BG on April 4.
> 
> 
> 
> One would have to be beyond stupid to have had her on and not have the show's new season in HD. I don't see Charlie as "beyond stupid" yet.:grin:
Click to expand...

Yet? Been there, bought the Seagate drive based at least partly on the manufacturer's rep being the featured guest on the Tech Forum when the EHD feature was introduced.

And besides, haven't they had guests from The Sopranos? Look where it is now. :grin:


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## jrb531

HobbyTalk said:


> Whew..... sure glad I have my tinfoil hat on!


Actually I'm putting foil in all my windows as we speak to keep out the space alien rays from frying my brain 

-JB


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## BobaBird

I used a smilie in my post to indicate I was attempting to make a joke by implying the Charlie Chat had the power to bring about the demise of a popular and well-regarded series.

Edit: this was a response to a now-deleted post


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## harsh

phrelin said:


> One would have to be beyond stupid to have had her on and not have the show's new season in HD.


It could come down to last night being when they could schedule her. I thought it was a very interesting interview regardless of the implications.

Somebody needs to pack Jim's tongue back into his mouth.


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## texaswolf

BobaBird said:


> I used a smilie in my post to indicate I was attempting to make a joke by implying the Charlie Chat had the power to bring about the demise of a popular and well-regarded series.


oops, sorry, post deleted


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## texaswolf

harsh said:


> It could come down to last night being when they could schedule her. I thought it was a very interesting interview regardless of the implications.
> 
> Somebody needs to pack Jim's tongue back into his mouth.


man...i missed..i bet she looked good too. Is there a replay of CC?


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## James Long

Yes, often. See the link in a recent the Charlie Chat thread.


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## texaswolf

James Long said:


> Yes, often. See the link in a recent the Charlie Chat thread.


yeah i noticed that after i posted in here...got it set for tonight...thanks.


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## TBoneit

DirecTV-Sub said:


> No a former 7 year DN sub - who grew tired of the continued 'agreements fair to everyone' arguments. The reality is these are only fair to Mr. Ergen as I see it.
> 
> I care - I gave them my money and lots of it. BTW, now that I have made the change, I am a happy D* customer, but that is besides the point. If you listen to the D* analyst call, it is said that the HD versions of these channels are NO EXTRA CHARGE. What fair agreement is DN waiting for?


What is Charlie waiting for? Some stray thoughts on that subject.
Free now, for how long. I have to feel that in the agreement to carry the HD channels that are free now they be switching to pay me mode in the future. maybe once the HD penetration is at a certain percentage point.

Given that is what I believe I can see Charlie angling to get them free for a longer period than the providers are offering.

Cheers


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## space86

We will not get USA and Sci Fi HD now that AMC 14 failed ?


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## James Long

AMC-14, which was destined for 61.5°, is unrelated. The space for those two channels is already assigned on 110°.


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