# The Amazing Race - All espisodes - possible spoilers



## Herdfan

So what did everyone think about last nights episode? Wow did the brother & sister team not jump out to a huge lead (which will most likely be negated by some attempt to bunch them up).

I though the older lady and the mom did great coming down the mountain. What was up with the blondes and the stick? That was too funny.

Note: I started a thread for all episodes as each one individually doesn't generate much traffic.


----------



## Bluto17

The brother-sister team is ultra-competitive. I can see a big-time falling out between them and the rest of the teams, due to that team royally screwing over another team.


----------



## jodyguercio

The brother got on our nerves last night with his stupid singing. What was up with the two stunt guys just acting all la de da about everything? We're still cheering for the mom and son.


----------



## Italia

jodyguercio said:


> The brother got on our nerves last night with his stupid singing. What was up with the two stunt guys just acting all la de da about everything? We're still cheering for the mom and son.


I'm rooting for Lakisha and Jennifer. I'm hoping the friction that Jennifer is having to her sister changes soon. The blondes with the wood was funny!


----------



## tcusta00

The blondes with the stick had me rolling!! If they last another few legs I'll be shocked. :eek2:


----------



## Ron Barry

The brother and the sister team appears to now how to navigate. That is a big plus. Same with Mom and Son though I am not sure how they pull that off. I am glad the couple got the boot last night. As nice as I am sure they are, I don't like that type of team. Just are not strong. 

Question. why was the Girl so weak last week. You are running to the end and you have to be carried.. What is up with that.


----------



## Doug Brott

tcusta00 said:


> The blondes with the stick had me rolling!! If they last another few legs I'll be shocked. :eek2:


.. and the fact that they referred to themselves as blonde in the same way was funny, too.


----------



## Ron Barry

The stick was funny.. What was even funnier was when they actually though carrying the stick across the finish line would do something. Oh.. and how they wondered who was going to stamp the stick.. I mean talk about lack of common sense. But who knows the two frat brothers mad it to the final 3.. perhaps these ladies will too. Lot of Randomness in Amazing Race.


----------



## tcusta00

Doug Brott said:


> .. and the fact that they referred to themselves as blonde in the same way was funny, too.


Who knows, maybe their self-awareness will help them succeed.


----------



## jodyguercio

Ron Barry said:


> The brother and the sister team appears to now how to navigate. That is a big plus. Same with Mom and Son though I am not sure how they pull that off.


The mom and son will be excellent communicators due to the fact that he can't read lips or speak. Mom is his only way to communicate.


----------



## Herdfan

jodyguercio said:


> The mom and son will be excellent communicators due to the fact that he can't read lips or speak. Mom is his only way to communicate.


On top of that, since he can't hear, his powers of visual observation must be head and shoulders above everyone elses. I doubt we will see them walk by a clue box a dozen times complaining they can't find it.


----------



## Lee L

But, if he has to do a roadblock on his own that requires communicating with others, he could be in for a world of hurt. Unless he could find another deaf person, though I am not totally sure if sign language is universal or not.


----------



## djlong

For the longest time, I thought there two main variants - International and American Sign Language (known as "Amerslan")

Checking Wikipedia, I was in for an awakening. 69 different sign languages were acknowledged at an international conference in Montreal in 1989 and 11 more have been added to the list that the conference used as a base source (Ethnologue)


----------



## Italia

I thought the brother and sister team were out this week. I think by them just surviving....this gives them a strong push to not end up back in this situation.


----------



## Mark Holtz

Dang.... to be eliminated through no fault of your own. I know that it has happened before in the Amazing Race, but it still sucks each time.

Of course, everyone remembers the past Amazing Race where the transportation was so mucked up, that teams were departing the pit stop as other teams were arriving.


----------



## Capmeister

Lee L said:


> But, if he has to do a roadblock on his own that requires communicating with others, he could be in for a world of hurt. Unless he could find another deaf person, though I am not totally sure if sign language is universal or not.


It's not. American Sign Language is native to the U.S. and Canada.

By the way--they're taking care of those things he cannot do. The hang-gliding one he was told he can't do as it relied on verbal cues.


----------



## Capmeister

djlong said:


> For the longest time, I thought there two main variants - International and American Sign Language (known as "Amerslan")
> 
> Checking Wikipedia, I was in for an awakening. 69 different sign languages were acknowledged at an international conference in Montreal in 1989 and 11 more have been added to the list that the conference used as a base source (Ethnologue)


ASL was based on French SL, so in France he MIGHT be able to understand some signs (I've seen some FSL and understood a word or two).

Luke has to rely on his mom for most communication, but he can write with teams that are willing to write back.

What I don't like is his mom, not being a professional interpreter and merely a mom, doesn't really interpret. She's a filter. She tells him things she thinks are important and she tells others what he says, often, rather than just saying what he says.

Also, when TAR said he signed "I'm not wearing a girl's leotard" he actually said "I'm not wearing women's clothes."


----------



## redfiver

Capmeister said:


> Also, when TAR said he signed "I'm not wearing a girl's leotard" he actually said "I'm not wearing women's clothes."


Ah, that's a bummer! That was a great line for the title! I guess they took some dramatic liberty as the girl's leotard line is better than women's clothes. But I wish they'd translate exactly for those of us who aren't fluent in sign language. They are my favorite team!

a question for you capmeister:
From someone who does know sign language, do you find Phil's signing at the end to be forced or do you like that he's putting in a good effort?


----------



## Herdfan

Mark Holtz said:


> Dang.... to be eliminated through *no fault *of your own. I know that it has happened before in the Amazing Race, but it still sucks each time.


I have to say it was 100% their fault. They knew before they took off that their flight was delayed. If it had been me, I would have gone and rebooked the flight everyone else was on. The 25 minutes they stood to gain was not worth the risk.


----------



## Michael D'Angelo

Herdfan said:


> I have to say it was 100% their fault. They knew before they took off that their flight was delayed. If it had been me, I would have gone and rebooked the flight everyone else was on. The 25 minutes they stood to gain was not worth the risk.


I would have to agree with this. They even said we could miss the connecting flight.


----------



## Ron Barry

Definitely has I read it Herdfan. From what it looked like.. One flight is direct vs. the other that connects. You would have gained 25 minutes for the risk. Definitely not worth it and it cost them. 

This was under their control in my opinion unless I miss read how it happened. They took what I thought was a high risk low reward option and payed. I personally like when teams take risks but given some of the other teams I think it was too early to take such a risk.


----------



## Italia

Capmeister said:


> What I don't like is his mom, not being a professional interpreter and merely a mom, doesn't really interpret. She's a filter. She tells him things she thinks are important and she tells others what he says, often, rather than just saying what he says.


This is exactly what I was thinking. My first thought was, that's horrible. But then I thought, it must be really tough on her. She's done it all her life. I would imagine that it could be really tiring. Not that she doesn't want to do it. I would imagine that sign language is like any other language but even more physically demanding. When you translate a spoken language it can be draining to translate every word all the time, back and forth. Eventually, you become that filter.


----------



## Capmeister

redfiver said:


> Ah, that's a bummer! That was a great line for the title! I guess they took some dramatic liberty as the girl's leotard line is better than women's clothes. But I wish they'd translate exactly for those of us who aren't fluent in sign language. They are my favorite team!


It's possible when they asked him what he said he said "I didn't want to wear a girl's leotard" but leotard would be spelled and girl and woman are usually different signs. They might have asked him mom what he said, and she tends not to be exact sometimes and may have told them "he didn't want to wear a girl's leotard." I notice Luke signs a bit different with his mother than in a solo interview.



> a question for you capmeister:
> From someone who does know sign language, do you find Phil's signing at the end to be forced or do you like that he's putting in a good effort?


Both.  It's a good effort, and it's very awkward because he (no fault of his) sees each sign as a movement unto itself. Almost like seeing each syllable as a word. When he said "You're team number one" it was as if he said "You. Team. Num. Ber. One." He could skip the number part. We know 1 is a number. 

But fluidity in signing comes with time and he's just doing whatever the producer suggested. He's a good egg.


----------



## Capmeister

Italia said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking. My first thought was, that's horrible. But then I thought, it must be really tough on her. She's done it all her life. I would imagine that it could be really tiring. Not that she doesn't want to do it. I would imagine that sign language is like any other language but even more physically demanding. When you translate a spoken language it can be draining to translate every word all the time, back and forth. Eventually, you become that filter.


It's why professional sign language interpreters, if they're going to be signing for more than a certain length (an hour? Maybe two--I forget), team up in pairs of two and do 20 mins on, 20 mins off, taking turns. I once--for my brother, mind you, because I'm not a professional terp and wouldn't have been allowed to do this professionally--interpreted a driving class (my brother got a speeding ticket and took the 1 day class rather than a fine and points). I think the whole thing was 5 or 6 hours. I was exhausted, and in pain. 

That said, she's been interpreting for him for 20 years. She knows him very well and they likly have a short hand. Her signing when she's talking for herself in an interview is very lax, but he's reading her lips a lot. Which is not to say he can read lips--he can read HER lips. Watch him when talking to her. He's looking at her face. He's reading her sign, but the lips help put it in context. (So much of sign language is facial expression that signers look at one another's face and only look at their hands if someone is spelling something. In fact, you often point to your hand when you're going to spell something, so you pull someone's attention to it.)

The mom is doing what she's always done--judging for her son what he'll care about. I do it for my brother all the time, saying something like "she's talking about shopping. You want me to interpret this?" He often says no, so I don't, but I give him the choice. Moms often forget to give the choice--they're moms. 

And, yeah, part of it is being tired. Going out to dinner with hearing people were I am interpreting for my brother is exhausting. I have to sign what I say, I have to sign what everyone else says, and I have to interpret what he says. When he excuses himself to go to the bathroom or something, I get a welcome moment or relaxation. But--as burdens go, I'm not a deaf person living in a hearing world, so I think I have it easier. 

Here's the "meet the teams" video with those two: 




Part of her interpreting is letting people in on a conversation almost. She says at one point: "...never thinking we would get on." (About 30 seconds in.) Luke replies "We got on it!" She days "I know, here we are" and doesn't sign anything. They know one another. Her body language said what she wanted and he understood it. So I cut her slack at times like these--and it's between them, really. I think what Luke probably wants is more chatting with the other teams and she maybe isn't up to it to do a lot of that.


----------



## Henry

Your brother is a lucky man, Cap. You have my respect for that.


----------



## Herdfan

Capmeister said:


> but he's reading her lips a lot. Which is not to say he can read lips--he can read HER lips. (


At the beginning of the show, they mentioned that he did not read lips. But from watching him, he seems to be able to read lips at some level because he reacts to what others are saying.


----------



## Capmeister

Herdfan said:


> At the beginning of the show, they mentioned that he did not read lips. But from watching him, he seems to be able to read lips at some level because he reacts to what others are saying.


There's a difference between being able to read lips to have a discussion, and getting someone's basic meaning through body language, facial expression, and guessing a word from lip movement. Skilled lip readers (relatively few people I know--it's not something a majority of deaf can do) can really do an awesome job and rarely miss a word. What Luke is doing my brother can do too... guess the basic concept of a short sentence by watching all that I mentioned. If I have my hands full and nod to the door and say "Open the door" my brother gets it. If a waiter comes to the table and says "What can I get you?" the circumstance presents itself as common and he can point to the menu.

Also, Luke may be smiling and nodding thinking he's getting it but not totally sure. I do that a lot with signers I don't know. 

All that said, it's different when it comes to his mom. He knows her well and looks for certain cues from her that have meaning. She might sign lazy for me, but for him, he's used to it and gets it--I'd bet anything. I do it too. I sign one way with my brother, and another here at work.

Also, when you know someone really well, even though an interpreter does a faster job or a more complete job of interpreting your loved one, they don't know the person so may not be totally on point. I know how my brother talks (signs) and I know when he's saying something in a certain way. I've cringed at the way he's occasionally been interpreted. They've not been wrong about what he signed, but not quite right about what he meant. (Talking about a style of speech.)

Okay, I've been babbling about this and most people probably don't care.  Sorry.


----------



## Capmeister

HDG said:


> Your brother is a lucky man, Cap. You have my respect for that.


Heh. I'm fortunate to have him be such a cool brother. I'm most proud of him. He teaches middle school science, having a degree in both English (which, to him is a second language) and Education, with a focus on special ed and deaf ed. If there were more people like him in the world--and more teachers--it would be a better place.


----------



## redfiver

Capmeister said:


> There's a difference between being able to read lips to have a discussion, and getting someone's basic meaning through body language, facial expression, and guessing a word from lip movement. Skilled lip readers (relatively few people I know--it's not something a majority of deaf can do) can really do an awesome job and rarely miss a word. What Luke is doing my brother can do too... guess the basic concept of a short sentence by watching all that I mentioned. If I have my hands full and nod to the door and say "Open the door" my brother gets it. If a waiter comes to the table and says "What can I get you?" the circumstance presents itself as common and he can point to the menu.
> 
> Also, Luke may be smiling and nodding thinking he's getting it but not totally sure. I do that a lot with signers I don't know.
> 
> All that said, it's different when it comes to his mom. He knows her well and looks for certain cues from her that have meaning. She might sign lazy for me, but for him, he's used to it and gets it--I'd bet anything. I do it too. I sign one way with my brother, and another here at work.
> 
> Also, when you know someone really well, even though an interpreter does a faster job or a more complete job of interpreting your loved one, they don't know the person so may not be totally on point. I know how my brother talks (signs) and I know when he's saying something in a certain way. I've cringed at the way he's occasionally been interpreted. They've not been wrong about what he signed, but not quite right about what he meant. (Talking about a style of speech.)
> 
> Okay, I've been babbling about this and most people probably don't care.  Sorry.


You're not babbling. I find it fascinating.


----------



## Henry

redfiver said:


> You're not babbling. I find it fascinating.


+1


----------



## Capmeister

Very well... I shall talk about it more now....

(just kidding)

But, if I do see more differences in what they subtitle he's saying and what he actually says, I'll let y'all know.


----------



## Italia

Capmeister said:


> Very well... I shall talk about it more now....
> 
> (just kidding)
> 
> But, if I do see more differences in what they subtitle he's saying and what he actually says, I'll let y'all know.


Yeah, that would be cool! Thanks for doing that for us. I know I'm interested in that.


----------



## jodyguercio

redfiver said:


> You're not babbling. I find it fascinating.


I agree too Cap. Not babbling at all. Quite a bit of learning for me.


----------



## Capmeister

Nothing unusual about them interpreting Luke's sign, tonight, except they showed some they didn't translate while playing an interview with his mom. In the taxi on the way to the airport he says, I assume about Siberia: "I heard there's a lot of snow and that it's in the middle of nowhere."


----------



## Italia

Well, he was right about that....snow and in the middle of nowhere. What marketing brochure did the people of Siberia read when they moved there? "Amazing bobsled ride at your doorstep, 365 days a year!"


----------



## Herdfan

I was disapointed to see Amanda & Chris go. I wish TAR would get back to making episodes with a Yield or U-turn non-elimination legs. They did nothing wrong except being a strong team. Would like to see what they could have done racing from the back and needed at 30 minute cushion.

I guess now I will have to pull for Cara & Jaime and Margie and Luke (I don't blame them for U-turning A&C, just wish the show would handle it differently).

Did anyone notice how much faster the stunt guys ran the bobsled track? He was 20 seconds faster than everyone else.


----------



## jodyguercio

Herdfan said:


> I was disapointed to see Amanda & Chris go. I wish TAR would get back to making episodes with a Yield or U-turn non-elimination legs. They did nothing wrong except being a strong team. Would like to see what they could have done racing from the back and needed at 30 minute cushion.
> 
> I guess now I will have to pull for Cara & Jaime and Margie and Luke (I don't blame them for U-turning A&C, just wish the show would handle it differently).
> 
> Did anyone notice how much faster the stunt guys ran the bobsled track? He was 20 seconds faster than everyone else.


While disappointed that they are gone, even if they hadn't been U-Turned I don't think they couldve made up ground. They were still trying to finish the shutter challenge while everyone else was almost done with the bobsled.

I've said it since this season began, Margie and Luke are going to keep hanging around. They know how to communicate, read clues, think things through, and never give up. Team to beat I think.


----------



## redfiver

Italia said:


> Well, he was right about that....snow and in the middle of nowhere. What marketing brochure did the people of Siberia read when they moved there? "Amazing bobsled ride at your doorstep, 365 days a year!"


uh..Many people were sent to Siberia against their will. It was a good way to get rid of political dissidents.

But the bobsled ride looked like fun!


----------



## tsmacro

Herdfan said:


> I was disapointed to see Amanda & Chris go. I wish TAR would get back to making episodes with a Yield or U-turn non-elimination legs.


Yeah I was thinking if they are going to allow U-Turns to be done anonymously they should make eps w/ them in it be non-elims as it gives the U-Turned team a chance to figure out who U-Turned them and add some more drama to the show.



Herdfan said:


> Did anyone notice how much faster the stunt guys ran the bobsled track? He was 20 seconds faster than everyone else.


I noticed that also, being a stuntman has it's perks I guess.


----------



## Italia

redfiver said:


> uh..Many people were sent to Siberia against their will. It was a good way to get rid of political dissidents.
> 
> But the bobsled ride looked like fun!


No kidding! But there are people living there sitting around a camp fire singing and drinking. Not exactly being held against their will.


----------



## redfiver

Italia said:


> No kidding! But there are people living there sitting around a camp fire singing and drinking. Not exactly being held against their will.


two points:

1. make the best of any situation you can! Learn to love where you are and live your life the best you can! The Russians are very hearty people, steeped with a long history in art, culture and education.

2. you don't think that was set up for the cameras?


----------



## coldsteel

Italia said:


> Well, he was right about that....snow and in the middle of nowhere. What marketing brochure did the people of Siberia read when they moved there? "Amazing bobsled ride at your doorstep, 365 days a year!"


It said, 'Comrade Stalin says you WILL enjoy...' lol.


----------



## Ron Barry

Couple of comments

1) Notice how the woman in read at the wood stacking task, was there an then gone. My guess she got a bit to lite up. 

2) How was the stunt guys going to stack the wood given their height. 

3) I found it interesting that someone that totally had no clue on the name appeared to nail it twice on first shot while another seemed to take forever. Perhaps just editing but boy that one felt weird to me. 

4) I do like the fact that the U-Turn actually has an effect in the game. What I don't like that once again it is yet another obstacle designed most likely to take out a strong team. I said before that personally I like watching strong teams really compete rather than watching someone fumble through the race and by the pure act of random chance end up in the finals while a strong team gets knocked out due to obstacles in the race that in most cases put strong players at risk. Amanda & Chris is an example. I do think they would have caught up if they only had to do one task to complete. 

5) Interesting that what I would consider is the 3 weakest teams got lucky and got the connected flight while the stronger teams did not. Definitely seeing the airport and plans being a bigger part of this race.


----------



## Capmeister

Ron Barry said:


> 3) I found it interesting that someone that totally had no clue on the name appeared to nail it twice on first shot while another seemed to take forever. Perhaps just editing but boy that one felt weird to me.


Chekhov.
Brezhnev. 
Gorbachev.
Medvedev.
Khrushchev.

There was a good chance it ended in V.  Given that even Russian names follow a certain rhythm, it should only take a few guesses of Russian SOUNDING names to stumble on it.

With the letters K H E C V H O you can come up with

Hechcov
Hohckev
Chekhov

and maybe one other. ;-)

It's why Luke had a bit of a problem... a Russian name doesn't have a "sound" to him so he couldn't toss together names quite as easy. My guess is he remembered they then tend to end in V and kept going until he got it.


----------



## Ron Barry

Yeah.. but the one girl did not appear to have a clue one second. Next second she is shown as getting it. no frustration what so ever. Reall was not edited well at all and sure raised a Phil eyebrow on that one.


----------



## Herdfan

They all seemed to stand around thinking. Like Cap indicated, there are only so many combinations, so they were they not trying as many as they could as fast as they could? Luke seemed like he was there a long time, but he indicated that he missed it on his 3rd try and was frustrated. As long as he had been there, I would have been on my 30th+ try. Unless there was a time limit between guesses that they didn't tell us. (But they ususally do -anyone remember last season having to count the Lenin heads in the park?)


----------



## Capmeister

Herdfan said:


> They all seemed to stand around thinking. Like Cap indicated, there are only so many combinations, so they were they not trying as many as they could as fast as they could? Luke seemed like he was there a long time, but he indicated that he missed it on his 3rd try and was frustrated. As long as he had been there, I would have been on my 30th+ try. Unless there was a time limit between guesses that they didn't tell us. (But they ususally do -anyone remember last season having to count the Lenin heads in the park?)


Part of the delay for all of them was having to take the wood slats out of the holder again. Once Luke began writing down all possibilities... he was faster.

But yeah, I'm sure there was editing on some of 'em--including his.


----------



## djlong

I think the stuntman did the bobsled ride faster because, let's face it, they're short. I don't think his head went above the top of the seatback and that means less wind resistance.

I think that the idea of the U-turn is specifically to get someone out of the game but give them a chance to stay if they are That Damn Good. If you make that leg non-elimination, then it makes the U-turn less effective and I *think* they trying to make it more enticing to make it get used more.

I can't help but to think what an iPhone with a worldwide data plan would do for teams. I haven't seen a specific list of prohibited items but there are some cell phones out there that could really give an advantage.


----------



## Lee L

They are definitely not allowed ot take a personal cell phone. Thats why they always borrow from Cab drivers if they are smart.

I have thought the same thing about the iPhone as well.


----------



## jodyguercio

djlong said:


> I can't help but to think what an iPhone with a worldwide data plan would do for teams. I haven't seen a specific list of prohibited items but there are some cell phones out there that could really give an advantage.


*Teams are forbidden from bringing maps, guidebooks, language books, and many electronic devices including cell phones, GPS units, and PDAs, though maps and guidebooks may be purchased during the race from the money they have been given.*

Other rules and penalty assement can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Race#The_Race


----------



## Italia

What did everyone think about the stuntmen calling the other cab, thinking it was an airline and talking to the cheerleaders. Suprisingly, the cheerleaders never carried the deception out and just hung up. I would think most other teams would have collected information and devised a plan to have the stuntmen just go right to the gate where the "tickets would be waiting". I don't think they didn't do it because they weren't intellegent...I believe they did it because they just are not devious people. Was funny though.


----------



## Bluto17

The stuntmen were lucky they didn't accidentally call the lawyer brother and sister team.


----------



## spunkyvision

I thought it was the cab driver that called the other cab and handed the stuntmen the phone.


----------



## Italia

The cab driver definately handed the phone to the cheerleaders. I'm not sure how the stuntmen called the other cab thinking it was the airline?


----------



## Bluto17

The stuntmen's cabbie dialed the cheerleaders' cab driver.
Then, the stuntmen's cabbie handed the phone to the stuntmen.
When the cheerleaders' cabbie answered the call from the stuntmen's cabbie, he handed the phone to the cheerleaders.


----------



## Capmeister

This week's report on what Luke said.... 

Nothing much this week (other than his mom not interpreting enough for him, I feel).

On the train he said: "I've never experienced that before--on a train, with a bed. First time. Nice. Good experience." His mom said mostly that (changing everything after first time into "that's pretty cool." But his lips also said "Nice. Good experience.")

When his mom is talking in the morning with Mike (Mel's son), you can tell Luke wants to know what they're talking about, but she's not interpreting. I hate that. I'm guessing she explained it, however, because Luke made a crying face. That IS the sign for crying, and while it might have been sarcastic, it may not have been. ASL is facial expression AND sign. You'll notice he says "What?" when the reaction is negative or funny after that. (And the used that "what?" lip movement/expression twice--same one.)

When talking about the guy they blind U-turned, he said big (not big strong guy, but that WAS the context) and he made a motion like "get away" or something. Like he had to get him out of the race. Heh. 

When talking about doing anything to win the race, being in his underwear (we didn't see most of that--just heard Margie's VO) the only thing we really saw him sign fully was "embarrassed." I bet. Later we heard her say that without seeing him, so they're editing here and there, methinks. As always.

Phil is getting better with his signing. I hope her gets a lot of practice with "you are team number one" in sign.


----------



## IndyMichael

Figures after the cowardly blind uturn they didn't have a non-elimination leg, but last night they did. I haven't watch last nights show yet, just ff'd to the end to see who came in last.


----------



## Herdfan

I just would like to know how anyone who goes on this show has not learned how, and become somewhat proficient at, driving a manual transmission?

Were Keisha and Jen even using the clutch? It looked like they were reving it up and slamming it in gear.:lol:

Was glad to see that Victor and Tammy didn't get #1 after what they did. If you are going to work together, then work together. Don't get some info and then ditch your partners.


----------



## Italia

I don't care for Victor. However, when these people sign up, are they gunning for the money or making friends? I go crazy when people feel betrayed. It's for the money!!!!


----------



## jodyguercio

Herdfan said:


> I just would like to know how anyone who goes on this show has not learned how, and become somewhat proficient at, driving a manual transmission?


I learned to drive on a manual transmission; so I'm like you herd, I don't get how that anyone doesn't know how to drive a stick.

Another thing, was it just me or did several people admit to going "commando" last night?

Mom and son are still my choice to go all the way....


----------



## Capmeister

Herdfan said:


> I just would like to know how anyone who goes on this show has not learned how, and become somewhat proficient at, driving a manual transmission?
> 
> Were Keisha and Jen even using the clutch? It looked like they were reving it up and slamming it in gear.:lol:
> 
> Was glad to see that Victor and Tammy didn't get #1 after what they did. If you are going to work together, then work together. Don't get some info and then ditch your partners.


In their defense, it was a LADA. Gear box as mushy as an overcooked pea.


----------



## Herdfan

jodyguercio said:


> Another thing, was it just me or did several people admit to going "commando" last night?
> 
> Mom and son are still my choice to go all the way....


As far as I remember, just Keisha or Jen. Did Tammy admit it as well? I was surprised the thong wearer was one of the flight attendants and not the cheerleader.

I think the mom and son are in the mix, but I think there is going to be a physical challenge that she will not be able to do, or at least not do well. What would have happened had she had to run 1.4 miles?



Capmeister said:


> In their defense, it was a LADA. Gear box as mushy as an overcooked pea.


:lol:


----------



## Ron Barry

There was something odd about the underwear challange. The first few runners obviously were wearing very similar underwear... Not sure if they were all going commando or if they had a choice.


----------



## Mark Holtz

Does anyone know where I can get a Lada in America? Would make great cars for rotten kids.


----------



## Henry

Mark Holtz said:


> Does anyone know where I can get a Lada in America? Would make great cars for rotten kids.


I think you're being facetious ... but one never knows, soooo....

http://lada.globalcar.com/searchcar/U.S.A./Lada/All/1.htm


----------



## rustynails

Ron Barry said:


> There was something odd about the underwear challange. The first few runners obviously were wearing very similar underwear... Not sure if they were all going commando or if they had a choice.


One of the contestants didn't wear underwear so she had to have some form of clothing so the show provided her with it! 
I wish they had showed the full thong and not blurred it out!


----------



## dave29

rustynails said:


> One of the contestants didn't wear underwear so she had to have some form of clothing so the show provided her with it!


That what I figured happened.


----------



## Charise

rustynails said:


> One of the contestants didn't wear underwear so she had to have some form of clothing so the show provided her with it!


They admitted on the broadcast that contestants could wear other underwear, I'm guessing their own from their backpack, though I'm not sure they said. I couldn't figure why the thong wearer (I'm not so great on the names until more are out) didn't wear something else--presumably that's all she had with her.


----------



## Ron Barry

rustynails said:


> One of the contestants didn't wear underwear so she had to have some form of clothing so the show provided her with it!
> I wish they had showed the full thong and not blurred it out!


Yes i heard that.. the odd thing was that the two guys. Stunt guy and Deaf guy both had similar underwear. Same with the two front leading woman and the woman that went commando. Only one that seemed to not be grouped was thong lady.

That was why I brought it up. Hope they bring back shaving the head to Jump ahead. 

I was also rather annoyed that the non-elimination came after elimenting a strong team. I am sure they say that these are predetermined but one has to wonder if they are looking to try and level the groups as much as possible to keep things as interesting as possible.


----------



## Herdfan

Ron Barry said:


> I was also rather annoyed that the non-elimination came after elimenting a strong team. but one has to wonder if they are looking to try ..........to keep things as interesting as possible.


I was also annoyed at that. Imagine how "interesting" it could have been with a strong angry team still in the race.


----------



## tsmacro

Ron Barry said:


> I was also rather annoyed that the non-elimination came after elimenting a strong team.


I just think they didn't have the heart to send a team home after making them run in their underwear in Siberia!


----------



## Charise

tsmacro said:


> I just think they didn't have the heart to send a team home after making them run in their underwear in Siberia!


I thought that was it too!!


----------



## Italia

Coming down to the end now! What I couldn't understand last night was the focus on the poverty of India. Then, you see the teams dancing around in a costume and the Indian people giving money for them dancing like that. A little contradicting.....


----------



## jodyguercio

All I want to know is:



Spoiler



how the heck did the flight attendants end up losing to the stuntmen? their cab driver must've really been a bad driver.


----------



## coldsteel

OK, Mom tried to heatstroke out and the stuntmen hosed themselves. Wife was surprised to see Phil jump to help so fast.


----------



## Herdfan

jodyguercio said:


> All I want to know is:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> how the heck did the flight attendants end up losing to the stuntmen? their cab driver must've really been a bad driver.


The only thing we could think was that the stuntmen's task was closer to the Pit Stop than the flight attendants. Or creative editing.

I thought the one penalty on the stuntmen for placing the pumps in the box was wrong. There have been many occasion on the various seasons where teams have done things to hinder other teams and were not penalized. They didn't hide them, they just put them in the box beside where they were sitting.

I have to wonder if the outcome would have been different had the father and son either 1) gone with the group at the beginning instead of thinking they were going the right way and 2) if they had listened to the first person that told them the ape was at the zoo?


----------



## dave29

Herdfan said:


> I thought the one penalty on the stuntmen for placing the pumps in the box was wrong. There have been many occasion on the various seasons where teams have done things to hinder other teams and were not penalized. They didn't hide them, they just put them in the box beside where they were sitting.


I agree, I thought that penalty was bull crap. It's not like they took the pumps with them or hid them around the block.


----------



## Doug Brott

There are apparently a lot of different rules in the clue that we never hear. It is entirely conceivable that something was mentioned about not touching anyone of the other pumps. It really seemed to me that there were enough pumps for each team to have one and that they may have in fact been able to take one with them so they could pump the the tires if they became flat. I didn't see anyone do this of course, but it may have been possible.

Either way, I'm sure it was a rule somewhere that we didn't see.


----------



## coldsteel

Did the lawyers and someone else go with a flat tire?


----------



## redfiver

coldsteel said:


> OK, Mom tried to heatstroke out and the stuntmen hosed themselves. Wife was surprised to see Phil jump to help so fast.


I wasn't suprised to see Phil help out at all! He's helped other contestants in the past as well. He's also recently started an across the country bike ride to support Multiple Sclerosis. He seems like a genuine, caring individual.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-amazing-phil28-2009mar28,0,6787181.story


----------



## elaclair

Doug Brott said:


> There are apparently a lot of different rules in the clue that we never hear. It is entirely conceivable that something was mentioned about not touching anyone of the other pumps. It really seemed to me that there were enough pumps for each team to have one and that they may have in fact been able to take one with them so they could pump the the tires if they became flat. I didn't see anyone do this of course, but it may have been possible.
> 
> Either way, I'm sure it was a rule somewhere that we didn't see.


It was actually part of the audio description for the task....that the pumps were there for the teams to take with them in case of a flat....I assume that meant it was also part of the written clue the teams had.


----------



## Herdfan

My interpretation was that they could take the pumps, but no one seemed to. But from watching the stuntmen fill their tires, they looked to be new tires and not old rotten ones.


----------



## redfiver

Herdfan said:


> My interpretation was that they could take the pumps, but no one seemed to. But from watching the stuntmen fill their tires, they looked to be new tires and not old rotten ones.


But they showed every team take off, and just about every team's rickshaw had flat tires. When the pumps were out in the open, it was easy to see you should check your tires, but with them hidden in the box, it made it more difficult.

And, it could have been a safety concern.. pulling a rickshaw with flat tires in that heat could give some middle age lady heat stroke! oh wait.... 

but seriously, pulling those carts would have been much easier with full tires. It makes all the difference in the world and was a contributing factor to the stuntmen being at the pitstop an hour before anyone else (oh, and because they paid the taxi to show them the way....).


----------



## Tele-TV

It was a great! episode... AND Jamie could be agressive!!! :eek2:


----------



## Capmeister

I felt really bad for Luke and Margie. Margie because she felt so terrible and Luke because as soon as she was out of it, all Luke could understand was Phil saying "you are team number 4" over and over and over again.


----------



## dave29

Tele-TV said:


> It was a great! episode... Jamie could be agressive!!! :eek2:


Yeah, that shopkeeper was pretty aggrevating.


----------



## trainman

Doug Brott said:


> There are apparently a lot of different rules in the clue that we never hear.


Sometimes they get a good enough camera shot of one of the clues in someone's hand that it's possible to freeze-frame and read it. (Not the case this past week, though.) There usually are at least a few "extra" details listed that don't get fully explained by Phil's narration or one of the contestants. A lot of times they're irrelevant, but they do occasionally include cautions about what's acceptable and what's not.


----------



## Tele-TV

Capmeister said:


> I felt really bad for Luke and Margie. Margie because she felt so terrible and Luke because as soon as she was out of it, all Luke could understand was Phil saying "you are team number 4" over and over and over again.


Capmeister, sorry for the silly question, but I'm not sure what you mean by

" "all Luke could understand was Phil saying "you are team number 4" over and over and over again. ", "

Luke could see that his mom was in distress.


----------



## coldsteel

And Phil only said that once, then jumped to help when she collapsed.


----------



## elaclair

Ah come on guys, Cappy was just being his usually dry-humor self. Or am I the only one who got the joke?


----------



## Tele-TV

elaclair said:


> Ah come on guys, Cappy was just being his usually dry-humor self. Or am I the only one who got the joke?


I don't know anything about Cappy's humor. I guess if the joke is that all Luke cares more about winning than his mom , than I get it.


----------



## Capmeister

Tele-TV said:


> I don't know anything about Cappy's humor. I guess if the joke is that all Luke cares more about winning than his mom , than I get it.


It was a joke about how they didn't seem to have an interpreter with them OTHER than Margie (who is not a professional interpreter), so with his mom out of it, they couldn't explain to him how bad off she was--but Phil COULD keep saying over and over again "you are team number four" because that's all the sign Phil knew.

(Obviously it was just a joke--Luke writes and with pen and paper he can communicate with anyone who can read and write English, and I'm sure someone immediately told him his mom would okay.)


----------



## jodyguercio

Herdfan said:


> I have to wonder if the outcome would have been different had the father and son either 1) gone with the group at the beginning instead of thinking they were going the right way and 2) if they had listened to the first person that told them the ape was at the zoo?


At what point did they not get the fact that even if EVERY other team going in the opposite direction was wrong, that if they followed them they would just be going in the same wrong direction as everyone else? Their being eliminated was their own fault.


----------



## Tele-TV

jodyguercio said:


> At what point did they not get the fact that even if EVERY other team going in the opposite direction was wrong, that if they followed them they would just be going in the same wrong direction as everyone else? Their being eliminated was their own fault.


^^ That's good thinking. Never thought about it that way.


----------



## TomH

jodyguercio said:


> At what point did they not get the fact that even if EVERY other team going in the opposite direction was wrong, that if they followed them they would just be going in the same wrong direction as everyone else? Their being eliminated was their own fault.


We've also seen before where people miss a required cluebox because they simply started following someone else.


----------



## Herdfan

TomH said:


> We've also seen before where people miss a required cluebox because they simply started following someone else.


Do you remember the girls that did that? IIRC, there was one team that had already gotten the clue and was headed back and two girls saw them and followed them to the NEXT clue. We are talking at least an hour of driving. The girls had to them go back over an hour to get the last clue.


----------



## Italia

redfiver said:


> I wasn't suprised to see Phil help out at all! He's helped other contestants in the past as well. He's also recently started an across the country bike ride to support Multiple Sclerosis. He seems like a genuine, caring individual.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-amazing-phil28-2009mar28,0,6787181.story


I've always said this....out of any "reality show" there is no better host.

*PHIL IS THE MAN!*


----------



## say-what

TomH said:


> We've also seen before where people miss a required cluebox because they simply started following someone else.


But this was a situation where everyone was just getting started on this route, so there was no opportunity to skip a step. Plus they saw everyone go the opposite direction, second guessed themselves, but still went on their own.

They took a chance and went on their own - could have paid off if everyone else was wrong. But they really only have themselves to blame.


----------



## Lee L

say-what said:


> But this was a situation where everyone was just getting started on this route, so there was no opportunity to skip a step. Plus they saw everyone go the opposite direction, second guessed themselves, but still went on their own.
> 
> They took a chance and went on their own - could have paid off if everyone else was wrong. But they really only have themselves to blame.


Exactly. They should have follwed everyone else as it is not like they had the choice to follow a group of 3 or qa group of 2, all the teams went the same way. People forget that for all but the last leg, all you have to do is keep from finishing in last place. Staying with the crowd is always the better option in the early rounds. Going against the grain and taking huge chances can pay off in the last round.


----------



## Italia

What a disappointment last night.....I walked in 40 minutes late....ready to fire up the DVR to start watching...but noticed the record light was not on. I wanted to cry...but was then happy to see it wasn't on....but then sad again that in it's place were the Country Music Awards. Very cruel.


----------



## dave29

Italia said:


> What a disappointment last night.....I walked in 40 minutes late....ready to fire up the DVR to start watching...but noticed the record light was not on. I wanted to cry...but was then happy to see it wasn't on....but then sad again that in it's place were the Country Music Awards. Very cruel.


Same thing happened to me:lol:


----------



## elaclair

Italia said:


> What a disappointment last night.....I walked in 40 minutes late....ready to fire up the DVR to start watching...but noticed the record light was not on. I wanted to cry...but was then happy to see it wasn't on....but then sad again that in it's place were the Country Music Awards. Very cruel.


Even more cruel, since it was on I started watching the CMAs. Talk about a train wreck. I love Reba to death, but OMG she is NOT an MC by any stretch of the imagination........


----------



## Tele-TV

dave29 said:


> Same thing happened to me:lol:


And to me! (about 40 mins in). :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Tele-TV said:


> And to me! (about 40 mins in). :lol:


You are not alone....CMA?....who even watches that stuff...!!! :lol:


----------



## jodyguercio

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You are not alone....CMA?....who even watches that stuff...!!! :lol:


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=155714

:lol:


----------



## Tele-TV

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You are not alone....CMA?....who even watches that stuff...!!! :lol:


I do! For Carrie Underwood.


----------



## rustynails

I watched part of the CMA and thought it was good. I like watching the female performers like Carrie Underwood. Im not a big music fan but I am a pretty woman fan!


----------



## Italia

No offense...but I can't sit through the CMA's, just to watch pretty women. That's what Univision is for.


----------



## jodyguercio

Italia said:


> No offense...but I can't sit through the CMA's, just to watch pretty women. That's what Univision is for.


No that's what the MUTE button is for.......:lol:


----------



## Herdfan

What did everyone think about last night's episode? For one, there is no way I would have left my backpacks and passports/money and not gone back for them. 

Second, what was with the penalties for the brothers using their stuff to barter? I remember in past seasons people offering personal items for money/payment when they were short. Is this a new rule?

I did think it was funny that the brothers thought the taxi "girls" were hot.:lol:


----------



## durl

Herdfan said:


> What did everyone think about last night's episode? For one, there is no way I would have left my backpacks and passports/money and not gone back for them.
> 
> Second, what was with the penalties for the brothers using their stuff to barter? I remember in past seasons people offering personal items for money/payment when they were short. Is this a new rule?
> 
> I did think it was funny that the brothers thought the taxi "girls" were hot.:lol:


I couldn't believe people would leave their passports and stuff behind. I believe they wanted to keep their cab but I have no idea why they thought they'd be running right back to a cab in the first place.

We got a kick out of the brothers' comments on the "girls." I wasn't aware of the non-barter rule, either. It must be relatively new. I was told that the brothers also had another penalty earlier in the race for hiding equipment in order to hinder other racers. That's pretty low.


----------



## Charise

Herdfan said:


> What did everyone think about last night's episode? For one, there is no way I would have left my backpacks and passports/money and not gone back for them.
> 
> I did think it was funny that the brothers thought the taxi "girls" were hot.:lol:


When one team re-docked to get their backpacks, I thought the other teams might think of getting theirs--particularly the team members who were just sitting in the boats! I wouldn't have left my belongings behind either!

I wasn't paying much attention to the karoake "girls" until Tammy pointed them out and they were shown in close-ups. :lol:


----------



## Herdfan

durl said:


> I was told that the brothers also had another penalty earlier in the race for hiding equipment in order to hinder other racers. That's pretty low.


Hiding is a bit of an overstatement. At a place where the teams were to get rickshaws, there were some tirepumps sitting beside a box. The pumps were there so teams could inflate their tires. He just put the pumps that were scattered in the box. My guess is that if had just done it like he was cleaning up and not announced what he was doing, there might not have been a penalty.


----------



## jodyguercio

Do the brothers even have a chance, given that they are starting almost 3:15 behind everyone else next leg? I just don't see it. It seems like teams see other teams do something and don't think things through. From reading clues, to doing the unthinkable and leaving the race pack behind, if anyone had just realized that as long as they had all the necessary items with them then they would've been able to just go and not worry about their bags.


----------



## Herdfan

jodyguercio said:


> Do the brothers even have a chance, given that they are starting almost 3:15 behind everyone else next leg?


If they bunch them all up on one place they do. Then they just have to do one more task to be even. Depending on how other things go (ie Victor and Tammy go hike up a mountain), they _could_ have a chance.

If they don't bunch them up, then they are toast.


----------



## Doug Brott

yup .. 3 hrs @ the pit stop or 3 hrs @ the airport .. all the same really. But if there is no equalizer then those guys can be written off now.


----------



## cdizzy

I've never seen anyone rack up so much penelty time.


Good to see they get another chance because they're a fun team to watch.


----------



## Tele-TV

I thought it was funny as well when they the brothers thought the people in the vans were girls. When they showed a close-up of one of them, you could see a moustache coming through. 

1. Didn't one of the teams (I think it was the brothers), barter a watch in Russia cause they were short on cab fare?

I could swear the taxi driver showed that he already had a watch on, or said they it was useless to him.


----------



## Italia

Who was eliminated? I went to watch it on my DVR last night, I even avoided this thread yesterday so I wouldn't see a spoiler....and then I turn it on to find 35 minutes of 60 Minutes. Darn you PGA! I never learn with my favorite shows. I should just record the show after just in case! So....who was eliminated?


----------



## Capmeister

It was a NEL.

I totally understand the new rule about using personal possessions to settle debt. Why not just bring with you a lot of jewelry and not worry about money if you go on the show? Part of the rules are you can spend only what they give you.


----------



## Mark Holtz

cdizzy said:


> I've never seen anyone rack up so much penalty time.


Back in first season, one team blatantly violated the rules, and incurred a 24-hour penalty by taking the car instead of the bus. This resulted in Team Guido not being eliminated.


----------



## Herdfan

Capmeister said:


> It was a NEL.
> 
> I totally understand the new rule about using personal possessions to settle debt.


So is this a *new* rule? I swear I remember teams in past seasons doing it.


----------



## Lee L

I am pretty sure it is a new rule. Probably due just to what people have mentioned, keeping teams form using personal possesions to get around the limited money. I am pretty sure people tried it before also, but I can't remeber for sure if anyone actually suceeded in making an exchange before now, so it could have been there all along, but no one ever completed a transaction and therefore was not penalized.


----------



## Tele-TV

I can't!! wait for this weeks episode to see the battle between Luke and Margie and the 2 sisters


----------



## dave29

Tele-TV said:


> I can't!! wait for this weeks episode to see the battle between Luke and Margie and the 2 sisters


Yeah, the preview looked pretty funny:lol:


----------



## Italia

Whoa....that was quite the show last night. I thought Luke and Margie were way off on their view. From what we saw it looked like Luke was a little too physical in both instances. Then, when he expressed himself in the car, the mother has to tell him "no, let's not get physical". Seriously? Does a mother have to tell her grown son that? 

It also became quite apparent that Luke's challenge through life has also kept him in a sheltered life with his mother watching over his shoulder. Lakisha smirked when Luke went into a tirade. I think I would do that too....to anyone who started flipping out on me. Go ahead, blow some steam off, I find it amusing. But that's not a knock on someone's disability. Luke and Margie got a little too defensive for me. Especially after Lakisha apologized to them, if they took it the wrong way. 

We're down to four..........I hope last night's top three are the final three! They all deserve it.


----------



## Capmeister

Italia said:


> Whoa....that was quite the show last night. I thought Luke and Margie were way off on their view. From what we saw it looked like Luke was a little too physical in both instances. Then, when he expressed himself in the car, the mother has to tell him "no, let's not get physical". Seriously? Does a mother have to tell her grown son that?


Looked to me like the first time Luke was pushing her away too harshly and she was running into him too harshly. (She not only said "b*tch to him, but signed it.) They were both being stupid. Does 1 second longer with the clue really help you? Wouldn't pulling two clues and handing one to her have been nice?

As for having to tell Luke that--he's still young and it's a race. I cut some slack if he doesn't forever think they 'wronged' him.



> It also became quite apparent that Luke's challenge through life has also kept him in a sheltered life with his mother watching over his shoulder. Lakisha smirked when Luke went into a tirade. I think I would do that too....to anyone who started flipping out on me. Go ahead, blow some steam off, I find it amusing. But that's not a knock on someone's disability. Luke and Margie got a little too defensive for me. Especially after Lakisha apologized to them, if they took it the wrong way.


It was hard to tell if she was laughing at him because of his voice or because she was amused that she got under his skin. Probably a little of both, but Luke's rant that hearing people are always putting down the deaf is silly. There is a portion of the deaf community that DOES feel this way, but it's an older idea that is slowly going away. But, hearing people do control a lot of deaf life, sometimes, so there are reasons for it. (Hell, Alexander Graham Bell didn't want deaf people learning to sign or get married to one another and lobbied the gov't to pass laws on it.) Check for a PBS special called "Through Deaf Eyes" about things like that.

That said, doesn't mean Luke was right. 



> We're down to four..........I hope last night's top three are the final three! They all deserve it.


Same here. I think they're the best teams and, honestly I hope Luke and Kisha (sp?) make up and realize they shouldn't be fighting.


----------



## djlong

I lost whatever respect I had for the sister when she changed her story.

First she said he body-checked her away from the 1st box. Replay showed that he was CLEARLY there first and she was tryign to pushim away and he pushed back with his arm.

Later, she would say that he "stuck his butt out". Well, umm.. Doesn't that mean you were BEHIND him?

And what happened at the 2nd box? They were both running for it and she got there first. Luke collides with her and her momentum carries her into the box. What did Luke do? He *immediately* backed off with his arms raised CLEARLY showing that was an accident.

Judging by next week's previews, karma might bite them.


----------



## Herdfan

My take on it was that at the first box, they initially bumped into each other as both were trying to occupy the same space. It happens, move on. But then he clearly reacted by raising his elbow. Don't blame him, but it was probably the wrong reaction. I may have very well done the same.

At the second clue box, it looked like Jen clearly "set a pick" by stopping abruptly. Luke then ran into her due to his momemtum knocking her into the box. At that point, they both had escalated it into more than it ever should have been.

As for the "laughing" at the end, I think they both were trying to get into his head and it worked. They were both D-I college athletes and know how much the mental aspect can affect a competitor. Luke unfortunately has probably not had this experience, so it worked.

Next week looks interesting


Spoiler



with Jen at the pool and not being able to swim


.


----------



## tsmacro

The way I thought about the situation was this, Luke got to the first clue box first and remember he's deaf, so he doesn't hear her coming up behind him before he gets bumped, so all he knows is suddenly there's someone on him and he just reacted in what i'd call a gut reaction trying to push whoever's on him off. Now I understand why she would be mad having an elbow thrown her way but I think she needed to think of how that seemed from his point of view. And ok she was pissed about it and blew off some steam calling him a b!tch. All it would've taken to diffuse the whole thing would've been for one of the people during the cab ride to the next clue box to simmer down and decided to be the bigger person and gone up to the other team and say "hey about what happened back there, this is why I did what I did and i'm sorry..." Instead though they both escalated the situation by playing crash test dummies into the second box, granted it did look like Luke did try to pull up at the last second but clearly way too late and now the sister was convinced he was deliberately trying to body check her out of the way, too bad the teams don't get the benefit of instant replay so they can see how it looked from our perspective, it might've helped. Then when Phil tried to get the whole thing out in the open and worked out on the mat, well you might've just as well lit off a bomb for as well as that went over. In this case I do feel a little bad for the sisters because I too am one of those people who will smile or laugh in tense situations and it's not something I do to try to antagonize people even though I realize some people see it that way. Then of course we get the whole the explosion from mom of all the unfairness that she and her son has had to put up with their whole lives because of his disability and no matter how bad the situation was I don't think the sisters deserved to be on the receiving end of that tirade.


----------



## HDTVFreak07

They were BOTH wrong. I'm pretty sure so much time had elapsed in between boxes of clues. That was enough time to forget about the previous scuffle and shake hands on it even though they're competing with one another. The sister is right on one thing; poor sportsmanship but she's looking at it in one-dimensional way. She needs to look at herself.

I'm Deaf myself and as much as I'd want to defend Luke, I can't. BOTH were wrong. It's like playing basketball. If I went hard for the loose ball and knock someone off balance (as to throw a person's body across the court), I'd give a hand to help someone up. It's a game of competition.

Luke's right about the Hearing people still putting Deaf people down. Look at today. Many are trying to "fix" the Deaf people's hearing problems by sticking cochlear implants when they're little. They don't always work. Then they try to stick Deaf people into a normal hearing school. That also doesn't always work. To me, it's like making black people white or Asian (or oriental) people fix their slanted eyes and make them look like the normal Caucasians (sp?). Deaf people are Deaf (or Hard of Hearing). They are in a cultural of their own. Doctors trying to tell parents that sign languages aren't needed, etc. but learning sign languages can be such a HUGE advantage.

Picture this: there are two people and both are hearing (or one Deaf and one Hearing... really doesn't matter). One is sitting inside a restaurant sitting by the window and one's outside the window doing something else before coming into a restaurant. The one inside might forget a wallet or a purse, so would you shout through a window yelling someone to go back to a car to get one's wallet or purse and get the attention of everyone in the restaurant? How cool would it be if both knew sign language? No shouting, no embarrassment!

What I'm saying is, there's NOTHING wrong with learning sign language as a Deaf individual. The world's trying to change that. Sign language is and should always be a Deaf or H/H's first language.

Sorry, had to vent here to get my point across.


----------



## Doug Brott

tsmacro said:


> The way I thought about the situation was this, Luke got to the first clue box first and remember he's deaf, so he doesn't hear her coming up behind him before he gets bumped, so all he knows is suddenly there's someone on him and he just reacted in what i'd call a gut reaction trying to push whoever's on him off.


This is exactly right .. and being a hearing person, had the "other" person been hearing (what we would normally assume) then her reaction would make much more sense. But your right, Luke probably didn't even know until he was hit and then he was just protecting himself. It's akin to someone jumping out and yelling "Boo!" when you least expect I imagine and while that usually turns into laughter .. There is fear involved.

Hopefully at the pit stop they will all simmer down and make up .. Mistakes happen.


----------



## HDTVFreak07

Doug Brott said:


> This is exactly right .. and being a hearing person, had the "other" person been hearing (what we would normally assume) then her reaction would make much more sense. But your right, Luke probably didn't even know until he was hit and then he was just protecting himself. It's akin to someone jumping out and yelling "Boo!" when you least expect I imagine and while that usually turns into laughter .. There is fear involved.
> 
> Hopefully at the pit stop they will all simmer down and make up .. Mistakes happen.


I was just watching the replay (on CBS.com) and it was obvious that Luke knew the sister was coming. Again, I'm Deaf and would love to defend Luke but not over this.

By the way, Luke's mother doesn't sign very well. Luke was irrational himself. Isn't he forgetting that the sisters are black? Even though black cultural is getting better treatment now days than in the old days, they probably went through just as much as Deaf people. Right?


----------



## Doug Brott

There was definitely some overreaction on everyone's part .. neither side wanted to back down so it just escalated.


----------



## Capmeister

tsmacro said:


> Then of course we get the whole the explosion from mom of all the unfairness that she and her son has had to put up with their whole lives because of his disability and no matter how bad the situation was I don't think the sisters deserved to be on the receiving end of that tirade.


No, they didn't. I did sense a little of it may have been about his "deaf voice" because the one sister tried to HIDE her smile. But most of it was probably because they were amused that he wasn't taking it on the chin more.

Margie may also be a bit overpotective, but it's hard to gage real-life personalities from people who're on the road a lot, perhaps not sleeping much, tense, and in a race for $1,000,000.

Luke, if he's not over it already, will have to get over it. There's nothing he can't do, except maybe being a telemarketer. Yes, there IS prejudice against the deaf. That's life, sadly. I don't think the sisters were intending to treat him any more or less because of his deafness. They were treating him like Luke, not Deaf Luke.

That said, I have witnessed some deaf prejudice. My brother doesn't even talk as well as Luke does. People WILL think he's stupid if they hear him voice when he signs. (His IQ is in the 150s and he's a middle school science teacher, by the way.) He was once fired from a job because the manager didn't like that he couldn't answer a phone. He actually won a settlement from them because of that, but with little actual damages. Why? Because he quickly got another job, pulling himself up by his bootstraps. That said, he got a job sub teaching at a deaf school which led him to go back to school and become a teacher. So choices for good work for the deaf are sometimes limited, and people overlook their talents because they're difficult to communicate with.

I will say, I always thought he and I couldn't go on the Race because he was deaf. I must admit, one year I'm tempted to try out with him now. Let the world see a MATURE deaf guy and his brother.


----------



## redfiver

Doug Brott said:


> Hopefully at the pit stop they will all simmer down and make up .. Mistakes happen.


I hope they don't simmer down! I thought it was great! It's a competition, everyone doesn't need to get along! While I hope it doesn't come to physical violence (which would get them kicked off the show anyway) I think it adds for some great tense moments. How Kiesha and Jen think they are not at fault in the whole thing at all is laughable though.

oh, and...


Spoiler



How the heck do you go on the Amazing Race and not know how to swim? I can't remember when there wasn't a swimming challenge at some point


----------



## Capmeister

HDTVFreak07 said:


> Luke's right about the Hearing people still putting Deaf people down. Look at today. Many are trying to "fix" the Deaf people's hearing problems by sticking cochlear implants when they're little. They don't always work.


Catch them young enough, they usually do. My brother got one at age 9. It was too late--the brain was basically too used to being deaf. But CI's are good for some people--especially those who can hear SOMETHING--and if you catch a kid young enough they seem to work. It doesn't make the kid not deaf--it's just a tool.



> Then they try to stick Deaf people into a normal hearing school. That also doesn't always work. To me, it's like making black people white or Asian (or oriental) people fix their slanted eyes and make them look like the normal Caucasians (sp?).


That's not a good comparison. The look of someone that's just an overt physical characteristic isn't a sense disablity. Like I said, it's a hearing world--you know that better than I. And if i had a deaf kid and a CI would work on him, I'd certainly try it.

Of course, I'd also teach him to sign.  But someday when I have kids, they'll sign if they're hearing or deaf.

Being mainstreamed with a CI is fine if the kid understands what he's hearing. Or, being mainstreamed with interpreters can work too. My brother attended Eastern Carolina University and earned a degree in English, and graduated from Michigan State with a degree in Education. He accomplished this via interpreters. Different strokes for different folks.



> Deaf people are Deaf (or Hard of Hearing). They are in a cultural of their own. Doctors trying to tell parents that sign languages aren't needed, etc. but learning sign languages can be such a HUGE advantage.


I agree with you on this. Those that say even a kid with a CI shouldn't learn sign are wrong and doing the child a disservice.



> How cool would it be if both knew sign language? No shouting, no embarrassment!


I'd just like it if everyone in a loud bar signed. 



> What I'm saying is, there's NOTHING wrong with learning sign language as a Deaf individual. The world's trying to change that. Sign language is and should always be a Deaf or H/H's first language.
> 
> Sorry, had to vent here to get my point across.


The world isn't trying to change it. Some people are and some are not, but hearing people, as a group, don't think X or Y about the deaf. Generally they don't think about the deaf, and they CERTAINLY don't think about the Deaf.

Like I said, my brother got his CI at age 9, and tried to work with it for 3 years, and then finally said "forget it" and hasn't used it since. (He'll be 32 in August.) If anything, going through that taught him that he doesn't need to be fixed and has probably made him more comfortable and independent. How's THAT a bad thing?


----------



## Capmeister

HDTVFreak07 said:


> By the way, Luke's mother doesn't sign very well. Luke was irrational himself. Isn't he forgetting that the sisters are black? Even though black cultural is getting better treatment now days than in the old days, they probably went through just as much as Deaf people. Right?


She seems to communicate okay with him. I've noticed his sign is more English when talking to her and less so when signing to the camera in an interview. Yes, she's not a terp but acts as one, but that's what having a deaf kid is about if you're hearing. I sign differently with my brother--more lazy--than I do at work because we know what we're saying and how we say it. So we have a view on a very personal relationship with perhaps some home sign and also lazy sign that he understands because he's known her his entire life.

What I don't care for is that she's picky about what to terp for him. When my brother is around, I terp whatever I hear until he looks bored and then I ask him if he wants me to interpret or not. Often he says no. 

But it's not easy. I've been out to dinner with all hearing people and my brother, and trying to interpret several people is exhausting after an hour. They're on a race around the world--tiring itself--and so she is leaving him out a bit because she's tired.

I don't like that she does it, but that's between them.


----------



## Lee L

I do think that both parties were in teh wrong here. However, it sure looked to me like she did not just bump into Luke at teh first clue box, but she actually wrapped her arms around him. He did not have to come quite so high with the elbow and that made it worse. The second box, it is clear that they were jockeying for position. Neither seemed to have a clear stake on being there first, so if they want to roll like that and go all out to save a second or two, they should both quit whining when it gets physical. The whole thing seemd childish to me on both sides, though maybe the girls took it a littel further, especially with teh duck biting as a result of karma comment. Sorry, girls, if you beleive in that, you have to beleive it goes both ways as it is not like you were innocent.

Now, I think they should both have been given a warning as the rules clearly state that both contestants must be at a the clue box at the same time. In both cases, the other halves of the teams were not there. In one case they looked to be a few dozen feet away at least. I know they could spilt hairs on this all day, but thats why they should have gien a warning here. As pointed out there is no reason at all to be gunning for the boxes like this. Maybe if there is a tag ripping line placeholder situation, but not for this as it makes no difference in the big scheme of things.


----------



## Mark Holtz

Capmeister said:


> Does 1 second longer with the clue really help you? Wouldn't pulling two clues and handing one to her have been nice?


I believe that is against the rules, since you are only allowed to pull ONE clue from the box, not TWO. A team got penalized about that a few seasons ago (same episode when one team unintentionally takes another team's car, causing a delay. When they realized their mistake, they turned around and went back to the task to get their car with apologies, but still got penalized.)

One thing that occurs again and again, karma will bite you in the Amazing Race.


----------



## djlong

If it were me in that argument at the pit stop (in the sister's place) I would have said "No, I'm smiling because I'm incredulous that you presume to know how I think!".

To me it hangs on the sister's insistence that she was knocked away from the 1st box when clearly she was blocked and THEN pushed away by that (admittedly high) elbow.

The reason it colors my judgement is because I have had to deal with people, especially my now-ex-wife, who have EXTREMELY creative memories - and who insist their version is right even when proven wrong.

A simple "Sorry, I didn't mean that" at the 1st box would have solved everything.


----------



## dave29

I didn't think it was that big of a deal, it was funny and blown WAY out of proportion.


----------



## say-what

I think a lot got blown out of proportion on both sides. First, both sides were going all out to get to the clue boxes before the other, even at the first box. I doubt that had the situation been reversed, that Jen would have just stepped aside - they were both trying to get the clue first.

Sometimes it seems like the people on the show forget they're in a race and expect everyone to act like they're best friends and help each other. But it's a race for a million dollars, everyone is ultiamtely working in their own best interest, which results in teams ignoring their own agressive behavior while faulting others for the same.

Margie just lost it at the pit stop and went way off the deep end.


----------



## coldsteel

Makes for drama. Happy.


----------



## Herdfan

HDTVFreak07 said:


> What I'm saying is, there's NOTHING wrong with learning sign language as a Deaf individual. The world's trying to change that. Sign language is and should always be a Deaf or H/H's first language.
> 
> Sorry, had to vent here to get my point across.


Why in the world would anyone care if someone wants/needs to learn sign language. There are too many people trying to control OTHER people's lives.

There is a lady who works at a local C-store who somehow had a family member who was deaf. She was trying to learn to sign and had a note up beside her cash register asking customers to ask her to sign a word. Most customers who saw the sign would ask her a word or two and she got to practice during the day at work.

It didn't seem like too much of a vent.

My father is hard of hearing and the biggest obstacle we have with him is that he has a very bad habit of agreeing to things he did not hear. Ask him a question and he will agree when he didn't hear but bits and pieces. So you rely on him knowing what is going on and then he gets made when something happens he knew nothing about and "no one told him." We now make him repeat important info so we know he heard it.


----------



## Herdfan

Mark Holtz said:


> I believe that is against the rules, since you are only allowed to pull ONE clue from the box, not TWO. A team got penalized about that a few seasons ago


But in that case, didn't they lose their clue and go back and get a second one?


----------



## thxultra

Last nights episode made for great TV. I can't agree more that both teams were wrong. I think Luke was at the first clue box first and that she accidently ran into him. I think he lifted his elbow more as a reaction though when she ran into him. He was being a ass though so i don't blame her for calling him a *****. I don't think it had anything to do with him being def but the fact that he wouldn't let it go. Geeze it was a accident. I think Luke ran into her purposefully though at the second box. It makes for good tv though and I like the crazy competition. I have to admit Luke and his mom have played a good game so far. I would like to see them win the whole thing because they have made some fun competitive moves during the game. I actually though the lawyers were the most annoying last episode. I was getting sick of them laughing at everyone because they knew mandarin. They had a major advantage knowing the language and were not too far ahead. They should have killed everyone and they didn't. Going to be great though next week I can't wait to watch.


----------



## say-what

thxultra said:


> They had a major advantage knowing the language and were not too far ahead. They should have killed everyone and they didn't.


During one of the confessionals, they said it should have helped them more, but really all it meant was they were able to understand the cabbies when they said they didn't know where they were going. :lol:


----------



## redfiver

say-what said:


> During one of the confessionals, they said it should have helped them more, but really all it meant was they were able to understand the cabbies when they said they didn't know where they were going. :lol:


And the task they had to complete was difficult for them to pull away on. They usually had their books stamped first because they could speak Chinese, but the other teams just followed them. If they had to get into more cabs and go longer distances, they may have been able to pull away a bit.

But, even when teams are in the US, they have problems. Someone always gets lots or something in the final round when they head back to the US.


----------



## HDTVFreak07

Hey capmeister!!! I never knew it was someone THAT close to you who's Deaf. Did he go to a Deaf school at all? I did for most of my school days until my last two years. I finished my last two years at my local school and went without interpreters. I credited my Deaf schooling for getting to where I'm at but the education program was absolutely no different between the two. In fact, I felt like I was ahead of my class in the local school.

Anyway, I'm still having trouble with our local ABC station. Their closed captioning is still delayed and they have yet to fix their problem. Frankly, I don't think they give a s*&%. I have to live with watching "Lost" a couple of days later on-line. I could go into another room to watch it in standard def but I just can't stand their poor picture quality.


----------



## Ron Barry

Well I agree that both teams had some blame last night, I have to say that the aggression definitely was with Luke. Infact when they discuss it and Jen explains her side, the video matches up with what she says in both cases. However when Luke's Mom explains luke's side there is definitely a mismatch. perhaps there is something "lost in the translation" as Phil said last night but it definitely did not match the video by a long shot and I think that is what the girls where smiling about. 

In the first incident, my perspective was that she ran into luke as he throws a hip to block her and then follows up with an elbow that was no accident. 

In the 2nd incident, they are running and she is clearly in front of him. She has to stop to get the clue and he plows into here which result in her running into the clue box. She then blocks him until she gets the clue as I would do also given the bump she just took. 

Yes she should not have restored to name calling for sure, but it was a rather nasty reaction to what clearly in my eyes was some accidental contact between two team members. 

What happened at the mat was clearly some overblown tempers and personally I think it was a big over-reaction on Luke's part as to what happened based on the video presented. Margie went off of Luke's take on it combined with the fact the other team could not help but smile at how wrong Margie's description was that was mistaken in my opinion for laughing at Luke which I don't think was the case. Definitely some blame to be passed around but I would say most of it goes towards Margie and Luke. 

The other piece of last night drama was the Asian team having to sit between it looking totally uncomfortable. I do hope that Margie and Luke look back at the episode and see it for what I think it really was. Two teams in a race where a little bumping occurred, a big amount of over-reacting to the contact, and later a total mis-interpretation of the events resulting in other big over-reaction. 

Well hopefully that does not effect the teams and we have seen the last of that incident.. Yes it made for good drama, but the teams involved need to take a chill pill and move on.. Would hate for this to cost a team the race.


----------



## redfiver

Ron Barry said:


> I have to say that the aggression definitely was with Luke


You say this at first, but later you said both teams were at fault?



Ron Barry said:


> In the first incident, my perspective was that she ran into luke as he throws a hip to block her and then follows up with an elbow that was no accident.


 Okay, Luke blocked her as he was clearly there first and she was trying to get around him.



Ron Barry said:


> In the 2nd incident, they are running and she is clearly in front of him. She has to stop to get the clue and he plows into here which result in her running into the clue box. She then blocks him until she gets the clue as I would do also given the bump she just took.


 Luke clearly backed off as they bumped, unlike when he was run into earlier.



Ron Barry said:


> Yes she should not have restored to name calling for sure, but it was a rather nasty reaction to what clearly in my eyes was some accidental contact between two team members.


What happened with Luke being at fault as you said at the beginning?



Ron Barry said:


> What happened at the mat was clearly some overblown tempers and personally I think it was a big over-reaction on Luke's part as to what happened based on the video presented.


I question this as being overblown as opposed to the way he communicates. In my limited experience, deaf folk's arm motions and facial expressions are exaggerated compared to hearing folks. I'm sure some folks on here who either are deaf or communicate with deaf folks on a regular basis can confirm or deny this. Sure, he was upset and he was yelling and screaming a bit, in the way he can. I'm sure it's frustrating for him to communicate to the other teams especially when angry and he's unable to defend himself. His mom tries, but she gets emotional as well, trying to defend her child and possibly vented a bit about long standing issues she's dealt with while trying to look out for Luke.

I can very much see how Luke/Margie saw the sisters as laughing at them. Luke was trying to defend himself and before his mom could even start to translate, they turned away with what seemed a snicker.



Ron Barry said:


> Well hopefully that does not effect the teams and we have seen the last of that incident.. Yes it made for good drama, but the teams involved need to take a chill pill and move on.. Would hate for this to cost a team the race.


I hope not. It's about time some controversy happens in the race. Some of the legs have been pretty boring, everyone mostly getting along. We are down to the last 4 teams. If you don't have some emotions running high right now, maybe you don't want it bad enough.


----------



## Ron Barry

Well redfiver, I do agree with your last point about wanting it bad enough and I have no problem with teams doing what they can to get ahead as long as it is in the rules and this include deceiving etc ... 

We definitely saw it two different ways. Yes I believe that the Luke Team was more at fault here.. Where the Jen team was at fault as I see it was the name calling. That was not called for even though Luke did throw an elbow. Using a Basketball analogy. Would I issue both players technicals? Nope... Luke would get one.. Possible tossed out of the game and Jen would get a warning. The elbow throw would be the reason for the technical or toss out.

Both teams carried it a bit far, but the Luke team to me went further down that path. Jen's recall to me was spot on and based on that I think Luke just got caught up in the competitiveness of the game and took it a bit far. Do I think he went over the line into the real jerk line that some contestants cross? No.. But I do think that he crossed the line big time when he throw the elbow.. The running into each other in both cases I would not consider crossing the line and the name calling.... Well that happens in ever show though this one I consider not appropriate but definitely not crossing the jerk line by a large margin given when it was delivered.


----------



## spartanstew

IMO, at the first clue box, Luke was clearly there first and the other girl tried to "move" him out of the way. Did Luke overeact with the elbow? Maybe, but I don't know how much of it was a surprise to him and how much wasn't. If she would have just let him get the clue and then get her own clue, none of this would have happened. So, IMO, she's to blame.

I also think she stopped short at the second clue box and it surprised Luke. He tried to back off, but too late. Should he have been that close? No, but again, if she hadn't have plowed into him at the first box, none of it would have happened.


----------



## Ron Barry

She stopped short? Huh? Well we differ there.. To me she stopped at the box and he plowed into her. You do make a good point on the first stop in terms of her initiating contact. But I personally don't buy into the "She started it argument". 

As I saw it. Two team members where trying to get to the clue box and she clearly tried to avoid running into him as he did on the 2nd clue box. Contact at the clue box has happened before. Where I draw the line is throwing the elbow in anger not to mention (Call me old fashion) that he throw the elbow in anger at a female. 

As I said, I believe Luke did not do this in vengeance or anything like that. As I see it he got caught up in the game and it is possible that the elbow was not intentional but since up to this point he has not mentioned it and given his story ("Relayed by his Mom") it is totally different than what I saw I have to believe that the elbow was intentional and that is where I think the line was crossed. 

It is possible that the thrown elbow was just a reaction to being bumped and not really a thrown elbow, but based on what I saw it was a thrown elbow and it does not matter who initiated first contact. Just because someone bumps into you does not give you a right to throw a punch or an elbow. Had he actually connected and Jen gone down, I don't think we would be having this discussion.. Would we? If not, then to me just because he missed does not make it any less of an action. But then again.. the NBA flagrant foul rule seems to be attached to if the player being fouled gets hurt or not and not if the official actually feels intent to commit a flagrant foul was intended.

Perhaps there is some reasoning behind why the elbow was thrown and I would be happy to change my opinion if a reasonable one was given but one was not. 

Bottom line... worse incidents have happen on Amazing Race. Remember the one guy who hit his wife or girlfriend? 

Oh.. and if anyone of them would actually of just looked down and saw the clue box in the first place none of this would have happend. I mean clueless can you be.. Based on the footage it was right there unless some bad editing happened.

All is IMHO..


----------



## Capmeister

HDTVFreak07 said:


> Hey capmeister!!! I never knew it was someone THAT close to you who's Deaf. Did he go to a Deaf school at all?


Yes. Mainstreamed 1/2 his day in Jr. High, though, and mainstreamed college. Now teaches at a deaf school. 



> Anyway, I'm still having trouble with our local ABC station. Their closed captioning is still delayed and they have yet to fix their problem. Frankly, I don't think they give a s*&%. I have to live with watching "Lost" a couple of days later on-line. I could go into another room to watch it in standard def but I just can't stand their poor picture quality.


Send them an official letter of intent to contact the FCC about it. They must respond within a certain amount of time.

:-(


----------



## HDTVFreak07

Luke's elbow throwing... from my perspective, he was just "blocking" the girl's attempt to reach over Luke to get the clue. It's more like, "Wait! I'm here first and let me get the clue".

Luke has to learn to be the better man and not "whine" about it at the mat. Hopefully he'll get over it and move on in the game. Next time, be sure to get to the clue box at least 10 steps ahead of the rest of the field.


----------



## HDTVFreak07

Capmeister said:


> Send them an official letter of intent to contact the FCC about it. They must respond within a certain amount of time.
> 
> :-(


Thanks. I'll try that. I already submitted an official complaint to the FCC via their web site but I don't think I got through to them.


----------



## Herdfan

Ron Barry said:


> She stopped short? Huh? Well we differ there.. To me she stopped at the box and he plowed into her.


Oh, I think at the second clue box she "Set a pick". Even though Jen was the volleyball player, I would guess she played basketball as well. She had her rear out and was firmly planted when he ran into her.


----------



## Mark Holtz

One thing that I noticed at the second incident was that Luke had his hands up to make sure that he doesn't get accused of throwing punches. 

Oh well, we'll see what happens next week.


----------



## Ron Barry

Herdfan said:


> Oh, I think at the second clue box she "Set a pick". Even though Jen was the volleyball player, I would guess she played basketball as well. She had her rear out and was firmly planted when he ran into her.


As I saw it, she set the pick after Luke ran into here and not surprising given what happened at the first clue box. Boy... I did not see it that way at all.. to me.. She ran to the box and stopped. Luck ran into her... She then set the pick as he tried to go around her.. Well that is how I saw it.. I did not see any initial pick before the run in on clue #2. Well that is how I saw it.

As for the folks that think he was just blocking.. I suggest taking a 2nd look at it.. To me it sure looked like a elbow throw to me and given his interpretation of the events I think it matches.. it was more than just blocking someone. Well guess we will have to agree to disagree on the intent. To me it was someone getting caught up in the game and being way over aggressive.


----------



## Italia

Maybe we should focus our frustration on the cheerlearders....or the one cheerleader in particular? Wow, want to talk about a beautiful but ungrateful, disrespectful, spoiled rotten, you owe me attitude. The other one says "I don't say anything because it will just get her going more". Really?! That basically means you don't condone her actions. Or maybe she is just smart because any conflict will have a greater risk of losing the race. 

Sorry I don't know who's who...one is Jaime and the other Cara.


----------



## Capmeister

HDTVFreak07 said:


> Thanks. I'll try that. I already submitted an official complaint to the FCC via their web site but I don't think I got through to them.


You have to send a real letter (can do it by fax) to the station first. They have to respond it a certain amount of time.


----------



## Herdfan

Ron Barry said:


> To me it was someone getting caught up in the game and being way over aggressive.


I don't think there is any argument there.


----------



## Herdfan

I didn't see that coming. 

I would not have ever tried the Sync challenge. Too hard to get it together.

Next week will be interesting.


----------



## jodyguercio

Herdfan said:


> I didn't see that coming.
> 
> I would not have ever tried the Sync challenge. Too hard to get it together.
> 
> Next week will be interesting.


I was wondering when that was going to happen.....and the other thing I was thinking about too, was there a FFW in the race this year?

Both detours were challenging but very do-able.


----------



## Herdfan

jodyguercio said:


> was there a FFW in the race this year?


Yes, but I can't remember who got it.


----------



## jodyguercio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Race_14#Leg_7_.28India_.E2.86.92_Thailand.29

Guess no one used it.....didn't even air it on the show.


----------



## Ron Barry

Interesting on the FF. Surprised that nobody used it. 

The swim lap challenge was very weak.. Anybody that could basically swim could easily of accomplished it. 

The sync dive.. Much tougher. 

They sure seem to be trying to keep the teams bunched up.


----------



## dave29

I'm pulling for the Redheads now. Everyone else is on my nerves.:lol:


----------



## Capmeister

dave29 said:


> I'm pulling for the Redheads now. Everyone else is on my nerves.:lol:


The Ugly Americans? No thanks. 

They're all people. They all have their faults. They all (mostly) seem decent. I'd be fine with any of these four winning. I do hope it's Luke and Margie, tho, even if he can be *****y.


----------



## dave29

Capmeister said:


> even if he can be *****y.


I was pulling for them the whole race until the last couple episodes. He can be quite *****y as you said, and Margie may be bi-polar

I would be happy if the Redheads or Luke and Margie won.


----------



## jodyguercio

I'm still in the Margie and Luke camp. I've called them as the winners since leg one.


----------



## redfiver

I'm still in the Luke and Margie camp as well. But I don't mind Victor and Tammy. The other two teams are bugging me. I thought for sure Jen and Kiesha were going to be off this week, they really dodged a bullet this week! They almost gave up!


----------



## dreadlk

Great episode this week, my pick is for Victor/Tammy, Victor has changed so much since the race started, hats off to a someone who changes for the better. My next pick is Jen and Keisha. Luke and his Mom got totally X'd for me when he started to act like a Baby and the cheer leaders are just so embarrassing to watch. Its funny how they keep wondering why they are getting such bad Taxi Drivers, (that’s after they insult the drivers figuring that they don't understand that they are being insulted. LOL)


----------



## Lee L

Agree about Victor and Tammy. They have improved and props to them for actually trying to learn something prior to going on the Race (Tammy's comment about the swimming class). So many times people get on the race and can;t do basic things that you could learn easily and if you ever watched the race you know is coming.


----------



## thxultra

Show was great last night. I'm still cheering for Luke and is mom with victor and Tammy As my second choice. It is great to see such close competition this season though. I was surprised how long Voctor and Tammy kept trying to do the sync diving thing. I would have thought they would have been fed up with it quicker. Will be interesting to see ow last nights twist plays off. I was also surprised no one used the fast forward. It is also interesting they didn't show it in that episode.


----------



## Ron Barry

Really not a big fan of anyone.. Victor and Tammy has been my pick. The show to me as gotten way to random and anyone can win. The cheerleaders are a good example.... Thank goodness the challanges have been pretty soft. The preview for next week with them was hilarious.. "I don't know why everyone is laughing at me".. duh...


----------



## djlong

I too am in the Margie/Luke camp. But I think there ought to be an award for the "team with the most personal growth" and Victor/Tammy would run away with it. I really admire the way that Victor has 'grown up' in his relationship with Tammy and she's been gracious enough to not be 'in his face' about it.

I still think the funniest line was them talking to the Chinese calligraphist saying "if we don't wim our parents will cry themselves to death!"


----------



## Italia

I have been in the Lakisha and Jen camp. I was relieved to see this show going another hour next week for continuation. Just maybe, they make a huge comeback. They should have never given up on the swimming.


----------



## djlong

The more and more I've seen of her, the more I can't stand Jen. "I don't DO small talk", etc.. Like she can't be bothered to be friendly.... 

That being said, I REALLY felt sorry for her having to face what was obviously a deep-seated terror for her. I was not happy watching the hell she was going through.


----------



## Italia

I think Jen is spoiled. She's obvioulsy been given an easier ride than her sister. She's the younger one in the family and has good looks too.


----------



## Capmeister

It's mostly difficult to judge people in such a stressful game. They all seem like nice enough people who are sometimes--like we all do--making some bad judgments on the fly. All of them seem like basically good folks who if they win, should be proud.


----------



## rbonzer

This has been a pretty good season, and I wouldn't mind any of the teams winning. All the remaining teams have at some point made me disappointed in them, but Luke/Margie are the last ones that did, so at this point, it is them that I'd like to be eliminated next.

The previews make me think that the cheerleaders are going to take over that bottom spot for me, but we'll see...


----------



## redfiver

Capmeister said:


> It's mostly difficult to judge people in such a stressful game. They all seem like nice enough people who are sometimes--like we all do--making some bad judgments on the fly. All of them seem like basically good folks who if they win, should be proud.


meh. we watch the show to judge people. that's what makes it fun. it's not difficult at all.


----------



## Herdfan

rbonzer said:


> All the remaining teams have at some point made me disappointed in them, but Luke/Margie are the last ones that did,


Actually, can we just have her eliminated and not him? Him I like, she not so much.


----------



## djlong

Speaking as a person who spent a good deal of his childhood in casts, crutches, wheelchairs and braces, I guess I'm predisposed to be sympathetic towards Luke. 

Keisha and Jen seem to have the "pampered jock" attitudes - and again that could be because I was a 'target' of the jocks in school.

Victor and Tammy impress me with their growth that I've mentioned before.

The cheerleaders haven't really given me any reason to dislike them and they seem to break a bit of the 'cheerleader stereotype'.


----------



## Herdfan

djlong said:


> The cheerleaders haven't really given me any reason to dislike them and they seem to break a bit of the 'cheerleader stereotype'.


Me neither, but I liked the flight attendants better.


----------



## Capmeister

Herdfan said:


> Actually, can we just have her eliminated and not him? Him I like, she not so much.


Ah, she's just being a protective mom. Honestly, the cheerleaders are the only ugly Americans in my book.

I was discussing this with someone who is deaf and has been watching and I used that term and my brother (also deaf, but a school teacher with a degree in English) explained what I meant. Sometimes I use a very hearing term that might not be understood.


----------



## Capmeister

djlong said:


> Speaking as a person who spent a good deal of his childhood in casts, crutches, wheelchairs and braces, I guess I'm predisposed to be sympathetic towards Luke.


Luke is bit whiny but he's young and being deaf sometimes (less so with technology these days) can be somewhat isolating. You see people stare at you, later you see them laugh, and you wonder if they're laughing at you. I got my first taste of this BEFORE I learned sign but was in a room with all signers none of whom were speaking. There's a special creepy feeling when everyone around you is talking and you understand NONE of it.

Then again, I get the otherside too. People will assume I'm deaf when I'm out with someone who is deaf and we're both signing. (I turn off my voice when signing if no one hearing is around.) I've seen people stare at me, then heard them say things like "lookit the deaf people" or a mother to her kid "don't bother the deaf people, honey."

Sometimes I will deliberately--for fun--embarrass people. At a store once, when I was in line with my brother and paying, the cashier spoke loudly to me, slowly, "Forty-three doll-ars and fif-ty-three cents!" I smiled and said clearly, in the same loud voice: "Thank-you. But. I. Am. Not. Deaf." To her credit, she cracked up.


----------



## Italia

djlong said:


> The cheerleaders haven't really given me any reason to dislike them and they seem to break a bit of the 'cheerleader stereotype'.


I have to disagree here. I will be honest...I like them for one reason and it's not their intelligence. Outside of that....I hope they don't win. They fly into different countries and act like these folks are expected to speak english. They are disrespectful to these cultures. I sometimes get real embarrassed for that one who is continuosly disrespecting. The other one isn't so bad, but she should say something.


----------



## djlong

Italia said:


> I have to disagree here. .... They are disrespectful to these cultures. I sometimes get real embarrassed for that one who is continuosly disrespecting. The other one isn't so bad, but she should say something.


Yeah, I spaced that when I was writing my reply - that's why they're #3 on my list because of the one who is the *prototypical* Ugly American when she gets stressed out.


----------



## Italia

Uggh....my girls are out! Seriously....$1 million dollars on the line.....coming down to the final three. How many of you would stop to use the facilities? Jen overcame her fears with swimming....and diving. She ate larva, scorpion, grasshoppers and starfish. Now the only thing in front of her is a port-o-potty and the port-o-potty wins? Are you serious. I would run as fast as I can to Phil and if I was wet....so be it.


----------



## Capmeister

Poor Jen. Problems with water in all forms. 

They were a good team and I'm sorry to see them go. A tough team considering their comeback.


----------



## davemayo

Italia said:


> Uggh....my girls are out! Seriously....$1 million dollars on the line.....coming down to the final three. How many of you would stop to use the facilities? Jen overcame her fears with swimming....and diving. She ate larva, scorpion, grasshoppers and starfish. Now the only thing in front of her is a port-o-potty and the port-o-potty wins? Are you serious. I would run as fast as I can to Phil and if I was wet....so be it.


For a million bucks, I'd risk wetting myself on the mat in front of Phil, rather than stopping at a port-o-potty.


----------



## jodyguercio

Italia said:


> I have to disagree here. I will be honest...I like them for one reason and it's not their intelligence. Outside of that....I hope they don't win. They fly into different countries and act like these folks are expected to speak english. They are disrespectful to these cultures. I sometimes get real embarrassed for that one who is continuosly disrespecting. The other one isn't so bad, but she should say something.


Looking ahead to next week, it isn't even other cultures that she is disrespectful of. Sad to see Keisha and Jen go home after battling back like they did.

Also, wasn't it funny to see the translations of some of the things that they were ordering....


----------



## elaclair

jodyguercio said:


> Also, wasn't it funny to see the translations of some of the things that they were ordering....


I almost wet myself reading some of those....oh wait, that was Jen's problem....


----------



## pfp

davemayo said:


> For a million bucks, I'd risk wetting myself on the mat in front of Phil, rather than stopping at a port-o-potty.


Wetting? Heck, for a million I'd probably soil myself on the mat in front of Phil.


----------



## pfp

jodyguercio said:


> Looking ahead to next week, it isn't even other cultures that she is disrespectful of. Sad to see Keisha and Jen go home after battling back like they did.
> 
> Also, wasn't it funny to see the translations of some of the things that they were ordering....


I was really happy to see Keisha and Jen go but those two cheerleaders are wsy to0 disrespectfull to just about everyone they come across. I wouldn;t have minded seeing them go either.


----------



## thxultra

I just couldn't believe she stopped to use the bathroom. Really she couldn't old it for 5 min. They knew the cheerleader was scarfing down the food so they had to know they would be right behind. I think I would have checked in and gone straight to the bathroom. Been like hi I have to pee. hahah. Been one of the greatest seasons of amazing race so far I must say.


----------



## Lee L

I would have proudly run up to the mat with a big wet spot on my pants. At least that would have proved I was competing. I don't really like the girls or Jen and Keisha, J&K did not deserve to move on based on that.


----------



## say-what

I'd have found a way to make it to the mat. It's unclear exactly how much time they lost with the bathroom break, but Phil's blog says they "came up several minutes shy of the final three." Sounds like it still might have been close if she skipped the bathroom, maybe a race to the mat.

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2009/05/phil-keoghan-bl.html


----------



## dave29

I am pretty happy with the final 3 teams, they have been the best competitors for the whole race.


----------



## Herdfan

say-what said:


> I'd have found a way to make it to the mat. It's unclear exactly how much time they lost with the bathroom break, but Phil's blog says they "came up several minutes shy of the final three."


It did seem like their cab driver let them off outside the Water Cube vs. the Bird's Nest so they had a lot further to go to find Phil. I think the cheerleaders got a better cab driver for once.


----------



## djlong

Are we forgetting something? It wasn't the pee break that lost it for them - note that the cheerleaders were nowhere to be seen on camera when the sisters showed up.

IT WAS THE U-TURN that cost them FAR more time!

I mean, *everyone* has to 'go' at some point - so everyone is equal in that aspect (just timing, you know?). But Victor/Tammy put the U-Turn smackdown on them and that's what THEY had to do that nobody else had to do.


----------



## spartanstew

djlong said:


> Are we forgetting something? It wasn't the pee break that lost it for them - note that the cheerleaders were nowhere to be seen on camera when the sisters showed up.
> 
> IT WAS THE U-TURN that cost them FAR more time!
> 
> I mean, *everyone* has to 'go' at some point - so everyone is equal in that aspect (just timing, you know?). But Victor/Tammy put the U-Turn smackdown on them and that's what THEY had to do that nobody else had to do.


Yes, the U-TURN obviously cost them time, but I still think the pee break lost it for them.

I couldn't believe how fast the one cheeleader ate that food. If the pee break lost it for the sisters, that food devouring certainly won it for the cheerleaders.

I'm happy with the final three teams


----------



## Italia

spartanstew said:


> Yes, the U-TURN obviously cost them time, but I still think the pee break lost it for them.
> 
> I couldn't believe how fast the one cheeleader ate that food. If the pee break lost it for the sisters, that food devouring certainly won it for the cheerleaders.
> 
> I'm happy with the final three teams


Agree! Jen ate the food like she was preparing it for a three year old. Tiny pieces, tiny bites. Huge minutes gained for the cheerleaders here.


----------



## Capmeister

Congrats to the winners, and all the players! They all did amazing!


----------



## njblackberry

Yes they did - I thought the last episode was a bit weak, but can't dispute that the best team (IMHO) won!


----------



## spartanstew

I feel bad for Luke. He had about 9 of the 11 surfboards done before Victor even showed up. He just couldn't remember the last one (or two). The brother and sister duo will probably make $1M at their careers, the cheerleaders will marry a couple of guys worth Millions, but I don't think Luke or his mom will ever see that kind of money. And they fought very hard (they all did). Especially Luke's mom. Man, that chick can do anything. 

Anyway, I also think the best team probably won, but I would have really liked to have seen Luke and his mom take it.


----------



## Capmeister

spartanstew said:


> I feel bad for Luke. He had about 9 of the 11 surfboards done before Victor even showed up. He just couldn't remember the last one (or two). The brother and sister duo will probably make $1M at their careers, the cheerleaders will marry a couple of guys worth Millions, but I don't think Luke or his mom will ever see that kind of money. And they fought very hard (they all did). Especially Luke's mom. Man, that chick can do anything.
> 
> Anyway, I also think the best team probably won, but I would have really liked to have seen Luke and his mom take it.


Luke is out of college, isn't he? Anyone know what his degree is in?

Luke can do anything he sets his mind to (perhaps other than telemarkerter) and be successful at it. My brother who is deaf is a middle-school teacher with two degrees under his belt. Guy who hired me where I work built his own consulting company and sold it for a couple of million--he also, is totally deaf.


----------



## djlong

"The Bionic Woman" indeed! She proved what she had when she "held up her end of the bargain" hauling that pig. I can't tell you how much I felt for Luke - having lost a "10 board lead".

But I think it HAS to be said that the cheerleaders did a CLASS ACT in giving the clue to Luke to pay back the favor. I may not have like the way Jamie too often slipped into "Ugly American" when frustrated but that was a stand-up thing to do at the end.


----------



## Italia

Great ending to the best show on today. Can't wait until next season!


----------



## Herdfan

njblackberry said:


> Yes they did - I thought the last episode was a bit weak, but can't dispute that the best team (IMHO) won!


Agreed. I remember in one of the early seasons when there were three teams all in cabs and then all 3 running like a mile to the finish line. That was great.

While I do like the "where have you been challenge", I would prefer it be used to get to the final 3 instead of to win the game.



spartanstew said:


> I feel bad for Luke. He had about 9 of the 11 surfboards done before Victor even showed up. He just couldn't remember the last one (or two).
> 
> And they fought very hard (they all did). Especially Luke's mom. Man, that chick can do anything.


His problem was he thought he had 10 and was concentrating on 11. Maybe if he had known 10 was wrong as well he could have done better.

And yes, Luke's mom was great. I loved how they passed the teams carrying the pig, yet no other team put it on their shoulders.



djlong said:


> "But I think it HAS to be said that the cheerleaders did a CLASS ACT in giving the clue to Luke to pay back the favor.


All through the race those 2 teams worked very well together and did not screw the other one over.

You have to feel sorry for Jamie and Cara. Once again they got a bad cab driver and it might have cost them.

Looking forward to next season.


----------



## dave29

Good race and a pretty good ending. Like stated earlier, I think Jaimie and Cara may have won if their cab driver didn't get lost and have to get gas.


----------



## jodyguercio

djlong said:


> "The Bionic Woman" indeed! She proved what she had when she "held up her end of the bargain" hauling that pig. I can't tell you how much I felt for Luke - having lost a "10 board lead".
> 
> But I think it HAS to be said that the cheerleaders did a CLASS ACT in giving the clue to Luke to pay back the favor. I may not have like the way Jamie too often slipped into "Ugly American" when frustrated but that was a stand-up thing to do at the end.


+1 DJ.

Margie was the toughest competitor the entire race. She never quit on ANY task. From the very beginning I thought because of that, they would win the race. Still to finish third in something of this magnitude is an accomplishment to be proud of.

Bring on season 15.


----------



## Ron Barry

dave29 said:


> Good race and a pretty good ending. Like stated earlier, I think Jaimie and Cara may have won if their cab driver didn't get lost and have to get gas.


Not sure if this would have been the case. She said at the end that she did not have a clue about the church. My guess is she would have sat there picking at random as Luke was doing and most likely would not have figured it out. The Lawyer was the only one in that challenge that was able to make the relationship.

Given that obviously the contestents are making it a point to study hard knowing that is the final challenge, perhaps they did to change it up with that challenge. Do a challenge like that followed by some other hard challenge.

I also found the last leg to be rather boring, but I am happy with the results... I also feel that the field this season was pretty weak in terms of strength of teams. I hope they have stronger teams next season.


----------



## spartanstew

Capmeister said:


> Luke is out of college, isn't he? Anyone know what his degree is in?
> 
> Luke can do anything he sets his mind to (perhaps other than telemarkerter) and be successful at it. My brother who is deaf is a middle-school teacher with two degrees under his belt. Guy who hired me where I work built his own consulting company and sold it for a couple of million--he also, is totally deaf.


The fact that I don't think Luke will see $1M is not because he's deaf. I just think his chances are less than two lawyers and two professional cheerleaders.


----------



## Capmeister

spartanstew said:


> The fact that I don't think Luke will see $1M is not because he's deaf. I just think his chances are less than two lawyers and two professional cheerleaders.


Never know.

Of course, soon it might cost that much just to buy a loaf of bread...


----------



## CoriBright

IMHO the results were the wrong way round.....

Luke and Margie deserved to come first, Kara and Jamie and Victor and Tammie just needed to have more time added, I didn't mind who came in after L&M.


----------



## rbonzer

It was a good finish. I think that the final episode seems weak because it is only one hour. They have to spend a some of the show at the finish line, so the race was all over at maybe 45 minutes. CBS should give them a longer final episode.

I guess one problem would be that with a longer the final leg, one team can get farther out in front, and have it not be an exciting ending. It was good that all three teams were at the final challenge together. (I can remember thinking about the Rob&Amber finish, where if the plane hadn't backed up to the terminal, they would have been a half day ahead of the other teams)


----------



## Charise

CoriBright said:


> Luke and Margie deserved to come first, Kara and Jamie and Victor and Tammie just needed to have more time added, I didn't mind who came in after L&M.


Cori, we are apparently completely at odds in "reality" shows (we don't agree on _Celebrity Apprentice_ either).  You "won" CA and I got this one. :lol:


----------



## redfiver

spartanstew said:


> The fact that I don't think Luke will see $1M is not because he's deaf. I just think his chances are less than two lawyers and two professional cheerleaders.


You base this on the high demand and salaries for professional cheerleaders? I've never known that to be an important part of a professional resume.


----------

