# When's the next SW release?



## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

With the pain that L212 is causing. Can we find out when exactly we can expect some "relief" from Dish?


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## Mark Lamutt (Mar 24, 2002)

Exactly? Not a chance...but it's looking like early April at the earliest now (my guestimate).


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## Cyclone (Jul 1, 2002)

His avatar is disturbing. But well dressed.


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)




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## Mike D-CO5 (Mar 12, 2003)

Yeah on 4/01/05 you might see a software update that fixes everything. 


April Fools!!


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## invaliduser88 (Apr 23, 2002)

I heard we get NBR on the 1st!


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

You can guarantee delivery on a 942 on April 1st if you send $500 into Dish now.


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## HailScroob (Aug 3, 2004)

DonLandis said:


> You can guarantee delivery on a 942 on April 1st if you send $500 into Dish now.


But only if you use Credit Card AutoPay...


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## TonyB (Jul 5, 2004)

Face it folks, regardless of what they have said (early or late March) it will NOT release before JUNE! Get used to it - its at best a 3 month release cycle. Even Mark was surprised by the release of 212 - obviously there were known bugs still in it, and people are finding even more now. Mine has been locking up like never before. 

I paid $1000 for my 921 back last July, so am just waiting until I can justify switching to D* - I need to see a HD picture and do comparison. 

Why E* continues to stay with the Eldon folks baffles me - we all knew of their incompetance by last fall, and yet E* sticks with them. Where is channel 100 that they continue to advertise as available to all dish customers? They disable the firewire claiming that they cannot prevent copy violations - even though Blockbuster rents DVD's and we all know that software is available to clone the DVD's. E* could simply have said that it is illegal to copy certain content that is streamed down to you. You can after all still copy the movies via the other ports. I rather suspect that Elden didn't know how to make it work anyway.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

TonyB said:


> Why E* continues to stay with the Eldon folks baffles me - we all knew of their incompetance by last fall, and yet E* sticks with them.


Aside from your emotional argument, why do you think it would be a good idea for E* to dump Eldon now and endure a learning curve for a whole new set of engineers from somewhere else before any new releases could be offered?


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## kmcnamara (Jan 30, 2004)

jsanders said:


> Aside from your emotional argument, why do you think it would be a good idea for E* to dump Eldon now and endure a learning curve for a whole new set of engineers from somewhere else before any new releases could be offered?


I'd be interested to know if there have been actual consequences for failure to perform. Your point about a learning curve is valid, but that can't possibly be enough to keep E* with Eldon forever. At some point, you have to just say, "You have 1 last chance" and then stick to it if they don't deliver.


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## DonLandis (Dec 17, 2003)

I actually suggested that several weeks ago. There is a core group of E* engineers who usually do the development and testing of the hardware in Atlanta. The reason why the testing was pulled from them and administered from Colorado was, perceived to be political, that is, to keep the Atlanta group from messing with Eldon's baby (this is just my opinion). But I do believe that the Atlanta group is not only up on the internals of the 921 but quite capable of picking up the ball and running with it, if and when a decision comes to making the change. I really do not think this will happen at this point,. E* seems to be hoping they can let the 921 nightmare wither and die over the next few years. Soon the focus will be on the 942. Once it is selling, you will probably get a response like "The 921 is no longer made and is replaced with our newer 942 and we recommend you upgrade to that now. There will be no more software updates as all development work has stopped on the 921." Then we start the whole bug fiasco with the 942 for those who wish to repeat the process thinking the 942 will be different!


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## FrankD1 (Jul 14, 2002)

I think it's Charlie's infamous stubborn and tight-wad streaks... He paid $9 million for Eldon, and gosh darn it, they're gonna do something. Plus, with how he's a perpetual wheeler-dealer, he wants to shovel revenue to the Eldon subsidiary so they've got some paper worth in case he ever wants to unload Eldon.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Good point DonLandis. :righton: I didn't know about that stuff, and I kinda wish I still didn't. :nono2:


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## HailScroob (Aug 3, 2004)

Mark Lamutt said:


> ...it's looking like early April at the earliest now (my guestimate).


Unbelievable.

Just plain unbelievable.


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## HailScroob (Aug 3, 2004)

TonyB said:


> I paid $1000 for my 921 back last July, so am just waiting until I can justify switching to D* - I need to see a HD picture and do comparison.


A guy I work with has my TV - Pioneer Elite PRO610-HD - but with D* and the HD Tivo. I took care of his dogs last weekend, so I took the opportunity to check out this all-powerful Tivo that has everyone so enamored.

Well, HD picture quality was equal to Dish (no better, no worse)(note that the 610 does not have DVI, and doesn't do 720p&#8230; yet another reason I should stop being an "early adopter"), but comparing the features and performance of the HD Tivo to those of the 921 is... well... like comparing an Alienware Aurora ALX to a Commodore 64.

I had never even seen a DVR until the 921, so I figured it did everything a DVR could do. What a joke.

Except, of course, jokes are supposed to be funny.


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## David_Levin (Apr 22, 2002)

Yea, they 921 is an orphaned product - I just don't see them eating the learning curve of a new programming team.

But, I'm not sure the 942 will be the replacment for the 921. In the next year, IF mpeg4 rolls out, then some new box will have to replace BOTH.


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## ntexasdude (Jan 23, 2005)

DonLandis said:


> Soon the focus will be on the 942. Once it is selling, you will probably get a response like "The 921 is no longer made and is replaced with our newer 942 and we recommend you upgrade to that now. There will be no more software updates as all development work has stopped on the 921."


For the lucky ones like me who have near perfect 921, here's a thought. Maybe if somehow we knew the soft release schedule we could unplug our boxes and wait until we knew there were not going to be anymore software updates. Then when they stop supporting it we just plug it back in. Hopefully we could use our boxes forever in their current state.

I'm half joking and half serious. I wonder if this would work. Any comment Mark L?


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## n0qcu (Mar 23, 2002)

No, wont work. As soon as you hook it back up it will download the current software version if it doesn't have it.


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## chuckbernard (Aug 3, 2004)

jsanders said:


> Aside from your emotional argument, why do you think it would be a good idea for E* to dump Eldon now and endure a learning curve for a whole new set of engineers from somewhere else before any new releases could be offered?


After 20 years of developing software I can clearly see that they really don't know what they are doing.

The whole project is a disaster. They have sloppy disorganized code and inexperienced software developers. No quality control and no management.

Every time they try to fix anything they break numerous other features. They cannot fix even the most basic features.

I do not speak with emotion. If what I have stated isn't obvious to everybody by now then they are in denial.

I could put a team together that would fix ALL of the problems in 6 months. Even if a near complete rewrite is in order. They have had years and can't get virtually anything right. (BTW, I do have experience with DVRs and have several friends who do also.)


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

chuckbernard said:


> I could put a team together that would fix ALL of the problems in 6 months. Even if a near complete rewrite is in order. They have had years and can't get virtually anything right. (BTW, I do have experience with DVRs and have several friends who do also.)


Well you might consider doing it and starting your own company. No project I know of this magnitude has been completed from start to finish in 6 months, but there is always a first time.

Always easier said then done.. Engineers have a huge tendency to under estimate the scope of work when they are not doing it.  Hell even when they are they do. (Software Engineer myself)

Ofcourse you have your right to your opinion, I just disagree.


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## jsanders (Jan 21, 2004)

Hey, looks like we agree this time Ron!


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## Ron Barry (Dec 10, 2002)

Should I add to my signature....

jsanders: Hey, looks like we agree this time Ron! 

Always a first time for anything!


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## AVJohnnie (Jul 27, 2004)

TonyB said:


> Why E* continues to stay with the Eldon folks baffles me - we all knew of their incompetance by last fall, and yet E* sticks with them.


I'm thinking Charlie keeps them around for their entertainment value&#8230; I used to wonder what became of the Monty Python crew - looks like they all went to work on the 921! Don't ya just love the English sense of humor&#8230; :lol:


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## Bradtothebone (Aug 11, 2003)

I bet Mr. Bean works for Eldon.


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Man, these guys are making the Microsoft guys who worked on the Dishplayer look good by comparison. At least they got it somewhat right eventually.


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## Skates (Apr 15, 2004)

I sure hope it's soon - L212 has been a real step backward for me.

If I didn't know better, I would say by the way my unit is acting that they reverted to an older version of the s/w and built their new changes on it.

I'm experiencing bugs I haven't seen in months!


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## BobMurdoch (Apr 24, 2002)

Amen. We seem to be moving in the wrong direction AGAIN.

I caught mine screwing up the timer for the second Smallville episode on HDNEt last night (luckily I saw the dread 77 UNKN banner at the top. I stopped the second timer after it started. and then set a one time timer to pick it up from there).

One potential cause, my wife was watching one of the Sirius channels and that must have been the active feed to the 2nd tuner when it tried to fire. For whatever reason, it can't switch the channel from a Sirius channel without problems.


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## SimpleSimon (Jan 15, 2004)

BobMurdoch said:


> Man, these guys are making the Microsoft guys who worked on the Dishplayer look good by comparison. At least they got it somewhat right eventually.


 The difference is, that was the early days of DVR and other "smart" consumer electronics. There's NO excuse for the 921.

Someone mentioned $9M for the software. Reminds me of a large medical charity I used to do some work for. They wanted their website rebuilt. We bid $4M. Would've pocketed enough to retire on after all expenses. Some big national outfit bid $7 or 9M - I forget which. By the time it was done (years later), it was up to $12M - and they STILL hadn't figured out how to do an online credit card transaction. AFAIK, they're still using the bulletproof, totally secure, highly efficient code I wrote from scratch for the old site in less than 2 months.

I'm not saying that for ego purposes, just that MOST of the so-called programmers out there should do something they are qualified for - like flipping burgers.


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