# Joey 4K vs Hopper 3 for HT



## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

We have a Hopper 3 in our main system and a Joey 4K in the master and guest bedrooms. I’ve just built a new Credenza for all the HT gear (and new UHD TV!), and the one thing that still annoys me is the noise coming from the Hopper 3 (my wife and I still both have reasonably sensitive hearing). We’re considering moving the Hopper to the guest room (where our main guest doesn’t hear very well) and using the Joey 4K with the main system.

Is there any technical disadvantage (UHD picture, surround formats, HDMI Handshaking, MoCA speed, etc.) with making this change and using the Joey 4K instead of the Hopper 3 in our main and most demanding system?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

"the noise"... if you mean LF humming, then start looking for ground loop issue


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## FarmerBob (Nov 28, 2002)

I had a new H3 swapped out because there was a noise coming from it that was reminiscent of a bad or failing fan or hard drive. It was coming from the box as a whole and I could not define a source such as a fan. So SolidSignal, where I got it, thought it would be prudent to swap out the box. The new one makes the same noise. Sounds (arg) like these are noisy boxes.


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

P Smith said:


> "the noise"... if you mean LF humming, then start looking for ground loop issue


No, I'm familiar with ground loops, it's not a hum through the system, I can hear it with everything powered down.


FarmerBob said:


> I had a new H3 swapped out because there was a noise coming from it that was reminiscent of a bad or failing fan or hard drive. It was coming from the box as a whole and I could not define a source such as a fan. So SolidSignal, where I got it, thought it would be prudent to swap out the box. The new one makes the same noise. Sounds (arg) like these are noisy boxes.


Yes, I don't think my unit is abnormal or I would try to have it exchanged. They all make noise, and I'm just as likely to get a noisier one. So my solution is to move the noise where I can't hear it.

Any input on my question?


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## P Smith (Jul 25, 2002)

Sure, you can get J4k and swap boxes, it just will increase your monthly fee


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## patmurphey (Dec 21, 2006)

4k Joey does not do HDR at this time. Hopper3 is not noisy to people with normal hearing frequency range. If hypersensitive hearing is the issue, I doubt that the Hopper3 makes any more noise than any "computer" box. Shielding the noise is likely a better solution than the 4k Joey, because it looks like any present and future Disk 4k will need HDR support. A future HDR version of the 4k Joey seems to be in order.

(P Smith - He's talking about swapping locations, not adding another Joey - no fee involved.)


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

patmurphey said:


> 4k Joey does not do HDR at this time. Hopper3 is not noisy to people with normal hearing frequency range. If hypersensitive hearing is the issue, I doubt that the Hopper3 makes any more noise than any "computer" box. Shielding the noise is likely a better solution than the 4k Joey, because it looks like any present and future Disk 4k will need HDR support. A future HDR version of the 4k Joey seems to be in order.
> 
> (P Smith - He's talking about swapping locations, not adding another Joey - no fee involved.)


Thank you for the HDR info, that's what I was looking for, and yes, we already have a Hopper 3 and (2) Joey 4K's. My wife first suggested we put the Hopper in the network closet and run a long HDMI cable. However that would be problematic for 4K & HDR, and would require HDBaseT or an expensive active cable (not to mention pulling it).

To be clear, we're normally not bothered by the Hopper 3 when using the system, it's noise is well below the typical dynamic range of most things we watch. Occasionally when listening to music it can be heard during quiet passages, it's most noticeable when we're reading (or punching on an iPad in a forum), we have a very quiet home and area and good hearing. The Hopper is quieter than many PC's, but noisier than the Mac mini a couple shelves away (which can't be heard).

The Hopper noise has been made slightly worse by installing all my gear in a new Credenza I built, one of its 'features' is very good natural ventilation to keep the equipment cool(er), that also allows sound to emanate freely. I might try isolating the feet to reduce vibration into the cabinet. Thanks again for the details on the Joey 4K.


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## ilcunl (Jun 6, 2018)

bmcleod said:


> Thank you for the HDR info, that's what I was looking for, and yes, we


The lack of HDR on the 4K Joey is particularly annoying/confusing because when Dish broadcasts something in 4K HDR, you can't view that program on a 4K Joey. The 4K Joey has no way to "downsample" or convert to regular dynamic range for viewing on a 4K Joey. In fact, the channel in the guide for 4K HDR doesn't show up on a 4K Joey. It took me forever to figure out why I was "missing" one of the 4K channels on my Joey.

There's so little 4K programming that it kind of doesn't matter, sigh.


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

ilcunl said:


> The lack of HDR on the 4K Joey is particularly annoying/confusing because when Dish broadcasts something in 4K HDR, you can't view that program on a 4K Joey. The 4K Joey has no way to "downsample" or convert to regular dynamic range for viewing on a 4K Joey. In fact, the channel in the guide for 4K HDR doesn't show up on a 4K Joey. It took me forever to figure out why I was "missing" one of the 4K channels on my Joey.
> 
> There's so little 4K programming that it kind of doesn't matter, sigh.


I felt the same way, had a Hopper 3 and (2) Joey 4K's all dressed up and no place to go. After 15 years of Dish I switched to DirecTV (a painful experience), there is more UHD and the picture and sound quality are very good, HD is better too. The Genie Mini 4K (DTV's equivalent to Joey 4K) does downsample, so you can watch 4K programming on an HD TV. I still (mostly) like the Dish gear and guides better, but I made the swap for PQ, happy so far.


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## ilcunl (Jun 6, 2018)

bmcleod said:


> I felt the same way, had a Hopper 3 and (2) Joey 4K's all dressed up and no place to go.


LOL, yes!



bmcleod said:


> After 15 years of Dish I switched to DirecTV (a painful experience), there is more UHD and the picture and sound quality are very good, HD is better too.


I switched from DirecTV to Dish (after 10+ years) this spring. I agree 100% that HD picture quality on Dish is noticeably worse than DirecTV. I prefer the Dish Hopper to DirecTV's Genie but I had an old-style Genie (HR54) and multiple HR24 DVRs so the setup as a whole was pretty outdated.


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## gpauljr (Jul 11, 2007)

I had quite the opposite experience. I switched from DTV to Dish after 16 years with DTC and couldn't be happier. Like the Hopper 3 much better that the equipment I had with DTV and the PQ is at least the same, if not a little better.


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

gpauljr said:


> I had quite the opposite experience. I switched from DTV to Dish after 16 years with DTC and couldn't be happier. Like the Hopper 3 much better that the equipment I had with DTV and the PQ is at least the same, if not a little better.


I agree that Dish equipment is better (though no HDR on Joey 4K is a problem), Dish guides are better and cleaner too. DirectTV however is hands down winner on Picture Quality, most noticeable on HD upscaled to 4K, but also quite evident on HD TVs as well. DirectTV's UHD/HLG/Atmos is the best broadcast quality picture and sound I've seen and heard, though that's hard to compare since Dish has virtually no 4K.


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## ilcunl (Jun 6, 2018)

bmcleod said:


> I agree that Dish equipment is better (though no HDR on Joey 4K is a problem), Dish guides are better and cleaner too. DirectTV however is hands down winner on Picture Quality, most noticeable on HD upscaled to 4K, but also quite evident on HD TVs as well. DirectTV's UHD/HLG/Atmos is the best broadcast quality picture and sound I've seen and heard, though that's hard to compare since Dish has virtually no 4K.


I agree on all counts. Hopper is hands down better than Genie. The Hopper3 approach to on-demand content is seamless.

The Dish picture quality limitation that I see most often will involve a scene with the sky. The sky should have a smooth gradient of colors, but instead I will see flattened out sections of one color and then a harsh transition the next color. So instead of fading from blue to white, I see one color of blue, then a clear step-line that leads to the next color of lighter blue, and so on, finally ending in white. This tells me the video has been compressed too far.

Things that annoy me about Hopper3:

Sometimes recordings don't happen. Multiple times I've had a timer simply stop working and miss 2-3 episodes of a show. I finally realize it and force my Hopper to reboot and voila, recordings resume (though I've now missed multiple episodes of a show). This has happened to me 3-4 times over the last 6 months with Dish.

When I go into a folder of recordings, I see no clear indicator as to which shows I've started watching and which ones I haven't. With DirecTV's "list", you can always quickly see which shows you've started watching. I have a folder with 50 movies in it and I constantly forget which one I've started watching and inevitably start watching another one.
When viewing recordings, I greatly prefer a "list" view instead of tiles. Dish only seems to offer a tiled view.
Despite my complaints, I have no intention of going back to DirecTV. I don't like how they operate since AT&T took over.


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

ilcunl said:


> ...
> The Dish picture quality limitation that I see most often will involve a scene with the sky. The sky should have a smooth gradient of colors, but instead I will see flattened out sections of one color and then a harsh transition the next color. So instead of fading from blue to white, I see one color of blue, then a clear step-line that leads to the next color of lighter blue, and so on, finally ending in white. This tells me the video has been compressed too far.


What you describe is called 'banding', can't say I've noticed it on either service. I have seen it once on Apple TV4K when outputting 4K on a 'smog' scene from The Crown. However that one is considered a bug in my processor and the manufacturer is working on a firmware fix.


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## bnewt (Oct 2, 2003)

bmcleod said:


> I agree that Dish equipment is better (though no HDR on Joey 4K is a problem), Dish guides are better and cleaner too. DirectTV however is hands down winner on Picture Quality, most noticeable on HD upscaled to 4K, but also quite evident on HD TVs as well. DirectTV's UHD/HLG/Atmos is the best broadcast quality picture and sound I've seen and heard, though that's hard to compare since Dish has virtually no 4K.


had no idea that Direct was broadcasting with atmos sound. If it wasn't such a hassle, I would switch for that purpose only. In laws have Direct & can't see any picture improvement over Dish. In fact, I don't think it is as good as the picture quality I have with Dish. Of course, it could be the tv set up as well. Also, don't see much difference with the guides....different colors, about the same speed


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## BrockDorf (Oct 2, 2018)

In my case there was a noise coming from it that was reminiscent of a bad or failing fan or hard drive. It was coming from the box as a whole and I could not define a source such as a fan. So SolidSignal, where I got it, thought it would be prudent to swap out the box.

pcb assembly process


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## bmcleod (May 13, 2006)

bnewt said:


> had no idea that Direct was broadcasting with atmos sound. If it wasn't such a hassle, I would switch for that purpose only. In laws have Direct & can't see any picture improvement over Dish. In fact, I don't think it is as good as the picture quality I have with Dish. Of course, it could be the tv set up as well. Also, don't see much difference with the guides....different colors, about the same speed


To be honest I've only seen a few programs on UHD 104 that were in Atmos, there may be more on PPV but I tend to rent Blu-rays at Redbox before doing that. Some have DD+ 7.1 that sounds very good as well. The PQ improvement in DTV continues to impress me, skin and hair are noticeably more natural but the entire picture has more definition and less blur. Upscaling HD to 85" does reveal the flaws with older programming, but I don't watch too much of that on the big system, most of the things we watch just look and sound great.

The main thing I don't like with the DTV guide are the banners/ads for movies, a lot of crap to scroll through. An old friend is staying with us and seems to have trouble with the guest room system as well, lots of partial recordings showing up that he can't figure out how he started or how to get rid of them, I clean them up now and then.


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