# What other channels are moving?



## camattin (Feb 6, 2003)

Just got the email that they are moving Sprout from Xtra (or Xtra classic as it will be called, right?) to Ultimate. This doesn't really bother me (neither of my children watch Sprout often, if at all).

What does bother me is their wording in the email:


> This channel move is part of an effort to control rising programming costs while still offering you the most popular channels at a reasonable price across all our packages.


Umm, but you just raised by bill AND you're removing a channel from my package. That's a double-whammy and a bad PR move in my book. When you say reasonable prices are you talking about the lower price I pay now that includes this channel or the higher price I'll pay next month for fewer channels?


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## strangely (Nov 2, 2008)

Ironically this was pretty much the only channel we had on our package that was stopping me from reducing my bill to a lower package; since it'll be going, there's nothing stopping me moving now, and they'll be getting less of my money!


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

Cloo is the other one I know about.


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## LI-SVT (May 18, 2006)

Sprout is one of the reasons we are on Choice Extra too. Looks like a downgrade to Family will get it back and save me a bunch of money too.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

camattin said:


> Just got the email that they are moving Sprout from Xtra (or Xtra classic as it will be called, right?) to Ultimate. This doesn't really bother me (neither of my children watch Sprout often, if at all).
> 
> What does bother me is their wording in the email:
> 
> Umm, but you just raised by bill AND you're removing a channel from my package. That's a double-whammy and a bad PR move in my book. When you say reasonable prices are you talking about the lower price I pay now that includes this channel or the higher price I'll pay next month for fewer channels?


Cloo will be moving to Ultimate as well.

DirecTV has stated that their programming costs are increasing by 10%, but they are only raising rates by 4%. Apparently, this is part of their effort to control part of the other 6%...

~Alan


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## TDK1044 (Apr 8, 2010)

From D*s point of view, one way to attempt to keep costs to at least a reasonable level, is to remove channels that attract very little traffic. They have stated publicly that they intend to do this going forward.

It's amusing to me that when there was a real risk of the FOX channels going dark for a few weeks a while back, many posters were shouting for D* to just pay up and do the deal.

There's a price for doing the deal...and we pay it.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> DirecTV has stated that their programming costs are increasing by 10%, but they are only raising rates by 4%. Apparently, this is part of their effort to control part of the other 6%...
> ~Alan


How do you come up with 6%? That only works if programming is 100% of their costs.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

trh said:


> How do you come up with 6%? That only works if programming is 100% of their costs.


I said their programming costs... not all of their costs.

I'm not trying to imply that they would make up all of it by moving some channels, but rather to imply that it could make a dent in it.

~Alan


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## lparsons21 (Mar 4, 2006)

Fortunately for me, both of the channels they've indicated are moving to Ultimate are of exactly zero interest to me.

But this is just the new economy we've already seen at the grocery store. Pay more, get less! 

I'm under contract, so I won't be going anywhere for awhile, but I do feel free to grumble a bit!  I wonder what the lowest package I can get and still fulfill the contract requirements and not lose HD for Life. Anyone know?


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## camattin (Feb 6, 2003)

I'm also under contract and won't be going anywhere (or changing my package), was just making the observation. Only 7 more months left in my contract, though, so we'll see what happens then. ;-)


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## zimm7778 (Nov 11, 2007)

We are what? 2 1/2 weeks away from these changes? When are we going to see a channel listing of the new packages?


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Cloo and Sprout are moving up from XTRA, soon to be XTRA Classic. Those are the only two channel changes other than Fox Deportes coming out of Sports Pack which was announced earlier. 

Conversely, some channels are moving "down", too, like National Geographic Channel which was in XTRA and will be available in CHOICE starting in February. Channels move up and down in base packages often as a result of new contractual agreements (National Geographic is owned by FOX), or based on viewership, cost containment (which translates into trying to hold the line on rate increases), etc.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

zimm7778 said:


> We are what? 2 1/2 weeks away from these changes? When are we going to see a channel listing of the new packages?


They will be announced very soon. As with any introduction of new packages, sometimes the last channel(s) have to be finalized and that sometimes occurs at the 11th hour for a number of reasons.


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## DViper2399 (Jul 16, 2008)

Any new HD coming with these changes?


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## jamieh1 (May 1, 2003)

Talking to Directv said the entertainment pack will not have any sports.
Similar to cox who has announced a package without ESPN channels to lower cost.


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

jamieh1 said:


> Talking to Directv said the entertainment pack will not have any sports.
> Similar to cox who has announced a package without ESPN channels to lower cost.


This will have ESPN & ESPN2.



TribeFanInNE said:


> Didn't see another thread on this, apologize if there is one but, has anyone else heard of this potential new package supposedly available next month? Found this on the other forum...I would be potentially interested in this if it happens.
> 
> Meet the value-packed ENTERTAINMENT Package.
> 
> ...


There has to more differences than just the omission of RSNs...

~Alan


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## JimV (Feb 3, 2007)

well, I immediately sent them a note voicing my disdain for this change. Anyone with a 2-4 year old relies on Sprout since it has good shorts and a lot of variety which kids need at this age.

Very disappointing given how many other channels I'd love to see leave my programming package instead. 

Oddly they added BabyFirstTV which typically has much much lower quality programming from Sprout. So if they are looking to save money, this was an odd reason to add a channel.

Dump OWN if you want to save money. 

Hopefully enough people will voice their unhappiness and maybe they'll change their tune.

Normally I am happy with D* but this was one thing that is a reversal.

Im on total choice plus anyway.


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## trh (Nov 3, 2007)

Alan Gordon said:


> I said their programming costs... not all of their costs.
> 
> I'm not trying to imply that they would make up all of it by moving some channels, but rather to imply that it could make a dent in it.
> 
> ~Alan


I'm still not following where you got your 6% from?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

trh said:


> I'm still not following where you got your 6% from?


10 - 4 = 6

Admittedly, I'm horrible at math, and today's been a hectic day, but I still believe that to be correct. 

~Alan


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

DViper2399 said:


> Any new HD coming with these changes?


More HD is coming


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

JimV said:


> Im on total choice plus anyway.


Total Choice Plus is affected also as it will become CHOICE XTRA Classic on February 9th. All versions of CHOICE XTRA will have CLOO and Sprout moved out to Ultimate.


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## PCampbell (Nov 18, 2006)

Satelliteracer said:


> More HD is coming


Soon?


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## zimm7778 (Nov 11, 2007)

"Satelliteracer" said:


> They will be announced very soon. As with any introduction of new packages, sometimes the last channel(s) have to be finalized and that sometimes occurs at the 11th hour for a number of reasons.


Wait. Now I'm confused. And please know I'm not arguing with you, doubting your integrity, or anything else negative. How can you announce program packages, the price, etc when you don't have deals in place for everything ahead of time?


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## bobvick1983 (Mar 21, 2007)

"Satelliteracer" said:


> More HD is coming


Could we perhaps expect this in the first quarter of this year? Or would it be more likely for the second quarter?


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## Alan Gordon (Jun 7, 2004)

bobvick1983 said:


> Could we perhaps expect this in the first quarter of this year? Or would it be more likely for the second quarter?


I have come across gossip overheard second hand on the street, that by 8Q 2012, we will get at least ONE new HD channel.

My money's on Sprout.... just kidding! 

~Alan


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## gomezma1 (Mar 28, 2006)

what channels are in the entertainment package?


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## ChicagoBlue (Apr 29, 2011)

zimm7778 said:


> Wait. Now I'm confused. And please know I'm not arguing with you, doubting your integrity, or anything else negative. How can you announce program packages, the price, etc when you don't have deals in place for everything ahead of time?


This is easy. It might not be his answer, but I can tell you what we used to do. The package pricing is determined by how much cost you have in each package plus your profit margin. More than likely they have determined a little while ago what they felt they could offer in terms of a consumer price point and also a compelling margin. That probably also meant a few channels were going to be on the outs unless they played ball. My hunch would be that's what you're seeing now with some of the channel changes.

You basically tell a channel that if you want to remain in this package, you have to lower your rates because we cannot afford to keep passing on your crazy costs to our consumers. If that means there are a few stragglers approaching the final few weeks, that's the way it goes. It takes weeks if not several months to program IT systems with pricing, marketing materials, and all of the other stuff. That is also why usually it says programming is subject to change because channel negotiations are a bear. So DTV knows what their cost structure is going to be based on the package pricing they have set and have more than likely penciled in some numbers for a few channels that may be below their current rate or may be slightly more but not a lot more like they are asking. Doesn't surprise me at all that there may be a few channels up in the air.


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## bobvick1983 (Mar 21, 2007)

"Alan Gordon" said:


> I have come across gossip overheard second hand on the street, that by 8Q 2012, we will get at least ONE new HD channel.
> 
> My money's on Sprout.... just kidding!
> 
> ~Alan


I will mark my calendar for the 8th quarter. That starts with the 15th month, right  I don't know about sprout though, I suppose we could get a HD infomercial channel? Or the paint drying HD network.


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## APB101 (Sep 1, 2010)

bobvick1983 said:


> Could we perhaps expect this in the first quarter of this year? Or would it be more likely for the second quarter?


2011's additions came in May, July, and the one-and-only basic (AMC HD) was in September.


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

If both the old version of XTRA (classic) and the new version are getting the same channel changes, then what' the difference?


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## mavs-fan (Aug 31, 2011)

mreposter said:


> If both the old version of XTRA (classic) and the new version are getting the same channel changes, then what' the difference?


Exactly. That's why I content that just like when the Total Choice/Total Choice Plus plans were grandfathered, that if you currently have Xtra before 2/9, you'll keep the channels you have now on 2/9. Your plan will just be changed to Xtra (Classic). However, you will also not get any new channels when they are added to the updated new Xtra package on or after 2/9. We'll see what happens though.

I would think DirecTV will have to announce all of the package changes in the next week or so (including the Entertainment package) in order to get everyone ready for the switch.


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## raott (Nov 23, 2005)

Satelliteracer said:


> Channels move up and down in base packages often as a result of new contractual agreements (National Geographic is owned by FOX), or based on viewership, cost containment (*which translates into trying to hold the line on rate increases*), etc.


Cost containment translates into increased margin, not rate increases. You have very smart people in finance and pricing that determine rates, given the market.

There is nothing wrong with cutting costs to increase margin, but lets not pretend margin isn't a huge factor. D* is not a non-profit just passing on costs.


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## weaver6 (Nov 3, 2005)

mavs-fan said:


> Exactly. That's why I content that just like when the Total Choice/Total Choice Plus plans were grandfathered, that if you currently have Xtra before 2/9, you'll keep the channels you have now on 2/9. Your plan will just be changed to Xtra (Classic). However, you will also not get any new channels when they are added to the updated new Xtra package on or after 2/9. We'll see what happens though.
> 
> I would think DirecTV will have to announce all of the package changes in the next week or so (including the Entertainment package) in order to get everyone ready for the switch.


Actually, you're wrong on both of your grandfathering assumptions. Satelliteracer is a DirecTV employee, and he knows the programming area. If he says Cloo and Sprout will not be in Choice Extra Classic, the won't be. I still have Total Choice Plus, and I got every channel that was added to Choice Extra over the year. Of course, that could always change.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

Total Choice Plus is becoming CHOICE XTRA Classic Feb 9th. Choice XTRA is also becoming CHOICE XTRA Classic...PLUS DVR and PLUS HD are already XTRA that happen to include DVR and\or HD. Cloo and Sprout are moving out of all forms of Choice XTRA (Classic, XTRA, Plus DVR, Plus HD, etc). 

The new version of Choice Xtra (post 2/9) will have different channels than the current version of it (which will be renamed XTRA Classic as mentioned above). This is why customers have been notified that Cloo and Sprout are leaving Xtra as they will not be part of any form of XTRA base package (current, past or future). So it is correct to assume that grandfathering is in place for most of the XTRA channels, but not for Cloo and Sprout. At the end of the day, the XTRA Classic package will have more channels than the new XTRA package, much like the old days where Total Choice grandfathered has more than Choice. 

Of course, in addition there are some channels that were in higher packages that are moving into lower cost packages as well. National Geographic Channel is an example of such a channel. It used to be in XTRA and above, but now will be in CHOICE and above.


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

That's as clear as mud.
I feel sorry for the CSR's that are going to have to understand and deal with questions about all these package changes. Like sand in your shorts, it's the little things that can rub you the wrong way.


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## MattScahum (Oct 27, 2010)

I have heard rumors floating through our center that channels like NHL network/galavision/sportsman/tennis channel will move from xtra to ultimate with new offer. I also know the entertainment will be 140 or so channels(espn and espn2 are included. as are E!/lifetime I believe and AMC among other notables.) I'm assuming as the new offer gets closer, we in sales as well as the number of other employees will be able to confirm or rebute any rumors we have heard. This one I've heard from a few different persons in different areas so I feel comfortable that "most" of this would be correct.


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## Old_School (Nov 29, 2011)

I just got this post on facebook.......


Sprout Update: We're pleased to have found a solution that enables customers who have Sprout to keep it in their programming package after February 9th.

New customers coming onto the platform will need to subscribe to the Ultimate Package to get Sprout after that date. We are always evaluating our programming so we may provide more choice and at the same time manage rising programming costs on behalf of all of our customers. It was never our intention to remove Sprout from our service. Thank you for being a valuable member of the DIRECTV community.


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## maartena (Nov 1, 2010)

Satelliteracer said:


> More HD is coming


Will we get new HD in the 1st quarter?


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## zimm7778 (Nov 11, 2007)

I don't understand grandfathering packages in if:

A.) you eventually rename them anyway
B.) Can still remove channels from it


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## mreposter (Jul 29, 2006)

MattScahum said:


> I have heard rumors floating through our center that channels like NHL network/galavision/sportsman/tennis channel will move from xtra to ultimate with new offer. I also know the entertainment will be 140 or so channels(espn and espn2 are included. as are E!/lifetime I believe and AMC among other notables.) I'm assuming as the new offer gets closer, we in sales as well as the number of other employees will be able to confirm or rebute any rumors we have heard. This one I've heard from a few different persons in different areas so I feel comfortable that "most" of this would be correct.


If these are the sorts of changes coming in less than 2 weeks, no wonder they haven't released the information. Directv has said that the current path of programming costs is unsustainable and that it was willing to make channel lineup changes to deal with the problem. It's gutsy, but lots of customers are going to be unhappy.


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## cjrleimer (Nov 17, 2004)

mreposter said:


> If these are the sorts of changes coming in less than 2 weeks, no wonder they haven't released the information. Directv has said that the current path of programming costs is unsustainable and that it was willing to make channel lineup changes to deal with the problem. It's gutsy, but lots of customers are going to be unhappy.


Definetly, and I am curious if Fox Soccer could be added onto a higher package as its available on higher packages with other providers. I think we could see the sportspack totally change if thats removed.


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## dpeters11 (May 30, 2007)

"mreposter" said:


> If these are the sorts of changes coming in less than 2 weeks, no wonder they haven't released the information. Directv has said that the current path of programming costs is unsustainable and that it was willing to make channel lineup changes to deal with the problem. It's gutsy, but lots of customers are going to be unhappy.


True, even some who never watch those channels will say, you're raising rates and giving me less. Of course they are adding things in other areas, Nat Geo is going to be included in a lower package than it is now. Others will understand that it keeps rates lower, and will appreciate not paying for channels they don't watch.

I'm sure DirecTV has research that shows how many customers watch the channels being moved.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

maartena said:


> Will we get new HD in the 1st quarter?


Yes


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

mreposter said:


> If these are the sorts of changes coming in less than 2 weeks, no wonder they haven't released the information. Directv has said that the current path of programming costs is unsustainable and that it was willing to make channel lineup changes to deal with the problem. It's gutsy, but lots of customers are going to be unhappy.


The changes he is discussing will not impact current customers...IF all those changes even happen.


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## Satelliteracer (Dec 6, 2006)

zimm7778 said:


> I don't understand grandfathering packages in if:
> 
> A.) you eventually rename them anyway
> B.) Can still remove channels from it


They are renaming several because starting Feb 9th they will be the same package at the same price. Prior to Feb 9th, they weren't the same price/content. It's a consolidation...no need to keep several different packages out there that are identical with the same name and the opportunity now exists to combine them. Easier on the CSRs, easier on IT systems, etc.

Channels can always be removed from packages, regardless if they are grandfathered or not. The point of grandfathering is to no longer sell the service. Based on contractual changes with providers (penetration rates, the amount the channel cost goes up, how many customers actually care about a certain channel, etc) channels most certainly can be moved around.


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## mavs-fan (Aug 31, 2011)

MattScahum said:


> I have heard rumors floating through our center that channels like NHL network/galavision/sportsman/tennis channel will move from xtra to ultimate with new offer. I also know the entertainment will be 140 or so channels(espn and espn2 are included. as are E!/lifetime I believe and AMC among other notables.)


Hopefully NBAtv will stay in Choice Xtra or it will remain in Choice Xtra Classic. *fingers crossed*


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## dod1450 (Dec 16, 2009)

Old_School said:


> I just got this post on facebook.......
> 
> Sprout Update: We're pleased to have found a solution that enables customers who have Sprout to keep it in their programming package after February 9th.
> 
> New customers coming onto the platform will need to subscribe to the Ultimate Package to get Sprout after that date. We are always evaluating our programming so we may provide more choice and at the same time manage rising programming costs on behalf of all of our customers. It was never our intention to remove Sprout from our service. Thank you for being a valuable member of the DIRECTV community.


 I received this in my email box.

We wanted to provide an important follow up regarding the Sprout channel e-mail message you received on Tuesday. We're pleased to have found a solution that enables current customers who have Sprout to keep it in their programming package after February 8th. An upgrade to the CHOICE ULTIMATE package is not required by current customers.

New customers coming on to the DIRECTV service after February 8th will need to subscribe to the CHOICE ULTIMATE package to view the Sprout channel.

At DIRECTV, we strive to bring you the best entertainment experience available. We are always evaluating our programming so we may provide more choice and at the same time manage rising programming costs on behalf of all of our customers. It was never our intention to remove Sprout from our service.

Thank you for your time and for being a valued member of the DIRECTV family.

Sincerely,

DIRECTV


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