# TABLETS???



## Rich

I know a lot of folks have a lot of interest in what's coming out in tablets and I'd like to open this thread to anything about tablets. The last thread I started kinda centered on the iPad and I'd like to see this one last a while, or as long as the new tablets are released. Any comparisons, any comments, any tablets.

Rich


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## spartanstew

I now that THIS THREAD is titled "Toshiba......", but that's where most of us have been putting general tablet information.


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## Rich

spartanstew said:


> I now that THIS THREAD is titled "Toshiba......", but that's where most of us have been putting general tablet information.


Yeah, but I've got six out of the twenty posts and it seems like a more general topic would work better. If it doesn't...

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Yeah, but I've got six out of the twenty posts and it seems like a more general topic would work better. If it doesn't...
> 
> Rich


Go for it!


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## webby_s

I have the Gtablet by Viewsonic (since Dec '10) that you MUST ROOT to even enjoy and once rooted it's a pretty good little cheap tablet. It's nothing special and sounds like it may get less and less support from VS and NVIDIA but the folks over at XDA are keeping the little bugger alive and well. I would recommend it to anyone that has a little knowledge of rooting an android system (or can read XDA forums) but don't use it if you are just going to use stock.

Otherwise I haven't touch another tablet, so I really don't have anything to compare it to.


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## WERA689

I just got hold of a Samsung Galaxy Tab WiFi. First tablet I've played with, and I gotta say I really like it! The display is SO much easier to read than my Android phones, and game play is a much better experience. So far, my phones are "just phones" again...though I'm sure that'll change with time and circumstances.


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## Drucifer

WERA689 said:


> I just got hold of a Samsung Galaxy Tab WiFi. First tablet I've played with, and I gotta say I really like it! The display is SO much easier to read than my Android phones, and game play is a much better experience. So far, my phones are "just phones" again...though I'm sure that'll change with time and circumstances.


Yep, tablets will have phones in 'em.


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## raott

Pricing info on the new toshiba tablets.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...der=BESTMATCH&Description=Toshiba+ant&x=0&y=0


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## Rich

WERA689 said:


> I just got hold of a Samsung Galaxy Tab WiFi. First tablet I've played with, and I gotta say I really like it! The display is SO much easier to read than my Android phones, and game play is a much better experience. So far, my phones are "just phones" again...though I'm sure that'll change with time and circumstances.


I do use my Droid as I would a tablet. I looked at the Samsung 7" Galaxy and I kinda liked the size of it. I had thought it would be too small, but it wasn't.

I also saw a revue of the 10" Acer the other day (I'll provide that link when I find it) and that did look pretty good too, especially the price, $450 compared to the $600 Xoom. Might try one of them.

Rich


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## Rich

raott said:


> Pricing info on the new toshiba tablets.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...der=BESTMATCH&Description=Toshiba+ant&x=0&y=0


Good pricing. Might give one of them a shot, too.

Rich


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## Rich

webby_s said:


> I have the Gtablet by Viewsonic (since Dec '10) that you MUST ROOT to even enjoy and once rooted it's a pretty good little cheap tablet. It's nothing special and sounds like it may get less and less support from VS and NVIDIA but the folks over at XDA are keeping the little bugger alive and well. I would recommend it to anyone that has a little knowledge of rooting an android system (or can read XDA forums) but don't use it if you are just going to use stock.
> 
> Otherwise I haven't touch another tablet, so I really don't have anything to compare it to.


Would you be able to give us some info on the "rooting" process? Or a link to that process? And explain the value of doing that? Thanx.

Rich


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## Sixto

I might get flamed for this, so I apologize up-front, but I couldn't imagine buying any tablet other then an iPad.

Maybe it's my Blackberry mentality, where for the last several years, almost everyday there's something cooler on other people's devices ... Now I'm finally part of the majority / cool club, finally. 

And everyone wants one (iPad). Been trying to get an iPad2, and the words from every location (Apple store, Best Buy, Radio Shack, Target), ...) is that the iPad2 is the most requested item, and sells out minutes after arrival.


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## spartanstew

Some of us have always been part of the "cool club", so that has no allure.


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## Sixto

spartanstew said:


> Some of us have always been part of the "cool club", so that has no allure.


Maybe a better choice of words would have been that it's nice to mostly never again need to worry about whether an App is available on my device, like the DirecTV App, but I probably have dozens of other examples (at least for me). Just like TV, content is king.


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## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> Some of us have always been part of the "cool club", so that has no allure.


I'm with you on that.

I'm certainly doing my homework on tablets before investing $500+ on one of them. I commend Rich584 for doing the same.

The most important criteria - it comes down to "What am I going to use if for most of the time, and what does it need to be able to do at any time?". As for Apps...if there are 1 million or 10,000...those numbers mean little, as long as all the key applications are available for what people use these devices for - the rest is mostly fluff stuff most will never use. Every iPad user I've seen in person has <100 apps installed.

I see this device as an opportunity to 1) View HD video (that eliminates the current iPads - but iPad 3 might be in play), 2) on some trips substitute for my laptop (it needs to view and interact with MS Office Powerpoint, Word, and Excel files, 3) it needs to (obviously) browse the web (Flash support is needed for many of the sites I frequent - also not supported by the current iOS tablets), 4) be able to print via bluetooth or USB connectivity directly from applications, 5) be able to store large files for access to #1 and #2 item files above, and 6) support network connectivity and security, including VPN access.

Everyone will have their own needs, but based on those - the newest Android tablets and perhaps iPad3 will be the focus and lead candidates. Right now, the Android 3.0 Honeycomb units seem to meet all these needs.

Since they are just starting to roll out one brand at a time...and iPad3 is likely 6 months or more away...Android units will get my attention to research in the next 90 days or so.


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## AttiTech

I'm very interested in this thread because sometime in the coming months I'll be purchasing one of these 'things of beauty'. Anything with the Android OS is peaking my interest, but working with Apple products, in a work enviroment and for play, for 5 years is causing me to lean towards the iPad/iPad 2. The camera's are something that could be a make or break for me depending on how the PQ is. I take pictures of my son a lot throughout the day on my Android Comet and they turn out fairly nice depending on the lighting. The games are a lot of fun, and since my pc is connected to my only HD TV, it would be nice to have something other than my phone to surf the web and check my email on while my wife is melting faces on Bulletstorm :lol: What are the prices on the iPad/iPad2 now? 

-Atti


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## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> The camera's are something that could be a make or break for me depending on how the PQ is. I take pictures of my son a lot throughout the day on my Android Comet and they turn out fairly nice depending on the lighting. The games are a lot of fun, and since my pc is connected to my only HD TV...


Only the Android tablets have HD (720p) resolution screens - iPads don't. The iPad3 is rumored to have their Retina screen, which would improve upon HD playback.

As for the Camera - the Androids have that covered well too.


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## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Only the Android tablets have HD (720p) resolution screens - iPads don't. The iPad3 is rumored to have their Retina screen, which would improve upon HD playback.
> 
> As for the Camera - the Androids have that covered well too.


Much appreciated. Being a first time father of an 19 month old, I'm a little trigger happy with the camera and camcorder :lol: I'd like to take something you can clearly make out everything around him so when he's old enough to look at them and comprehend, we can show him the apartment we lived in, ect ect. This new enlightenment of the 720p is very intriguing on the Honeycombs status for me. Any recommendations of Android tablets (besides the Xoom). If you could throw in a general price on them that would be fantastic. I have 5 months before I'm going to purchase it, so if there isn't one released yet, then I'm curious as well.

-Atti


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## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> Much appreciated. Being a first time father of an 19 month old, I'm a little trigger happy with the camera and camcorder :lol: I'd like to take something you can clearly make out everything around him so when he's old enough to look at them and comprehend, we can show him the apartment we lived in, ect etc. This new enlightenment of the 720p is very intriguing on the Honeycombs status for me. Any recommendations of Android tablets (besides the Xoom). If you could throw in a general price on them that would be fantastic. I have 5 months before I'm going to purchase it, so if there isn't one released yet, then I'm curious as well.
> 
> -Atti


The new Android units are just starting to roll out.

My best recommendation is to follow this thread, and device informatoin links provided in posts, and the great information the many posters provide.

It appears Rich584, you, and I are all in about the same timelines for a buying decision, and exploring many of the same possibilities.

Regardless of anyone's choice (iPad, Android, or other), the first decision is what do you want it to do, and then pursue your best options along those lines. In terms of your question on Android tablet prices - there are tiers (based on internal memory), but you'll find them in the $449 -$579 range for the most part. Since they support SD card memory expansion for storage...you may not need the largest internal memory model.


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## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The new Android units are just starting to roll out.
> 
> My best recommendation is to follow this thread, and device informatoin links provided in posts, and the great information the many posters provide.
> 
> It appears Rich584, you, and I are all in about the same timelines for a buying decision, and exploring many of the same possibilities.
> 
> Regardless of anyone's choice (iPad, Android, or other), the first decision is what do you want it to do, and then pursue your best options along those lines. In terms of your question on Android tablet prices - there are tiers (based on internal memory), but you'll find them in the $449 -$579 range for the most part. Since they support SD card memory expansion for storage...you may not need the largest internal memory model.


I'm all about not spending as much as I have to if I can purchase a large sd card for super cheap


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## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> I'm all about not spending as much as I have to if I can purchase a large sd card for super cheap


Here's just one of hundreds of places to start your research on the units...

http://androidtabletreviewz.com/


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## TBlazer07

If you simply want to "test drive" a tablet without spending a lot of money get a Barnes & Noble Nook Color and turn it into a nice fully functional Android (2.2) tablet with little effort. It's much more than I need as I really have no use for a tablet other than as a "gadget" but for $249 (I got mine for $140 with a bunch of Groupon coupons a while back) and 20 minutes to "root" it it works just as well as the $500+ Galaxy Tab albeit without GPS. I tether it to my iPhone for a 3G connection if needed.


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## AttiTech

TBlazer07 said:


> If you simply want to "test drive" a tablet without spending a lot of money get a Barnes & Noble Nook Color and turn it into a nice fully functional Android (2.2) tablet with little effort. It's much more than I need as I really have no use for a tablet other than as a "gadget" but for $249 (I got mine for $140 with a bunch of Groupon coupons a while back) and 20 minutes to "root" it it works just as well as the $500+ Galaxy Tab albeit without GPS. I tether it to my iPhone for a 3G connection if needed.


I'm assuming by "root" you're wiping the internal hdd and install an Android OS on it or is it a dual boot?


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## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> I'm assuming by "root" you're wiping the internal hdd and install *an Android OS *on it or is it a dual boot?


It's important to note that the curent rollout of tablets feature the Andriod v3.0 (nicknamed honeycomb) operating system, whereas most others on the market before now (other than Xoom, which is also v3.0) had v2.2 on them.

Here's are 3 quick looks at what v3.0 brings to the table:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/218233/android_30_honeycomb_debuts_wednesday_what_to_expect.html

http://blog.clove.co.uk/2011/02/03/google-android-v3-0-honeycomb-android-marketplace-website/

http://blog.gsmarena.com/heres-whats-new-in-android-3-0-honeycomb-screenshots-galore/


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## bobnielsen

rich584 said:


> Would you be able to give us some info on the "rooting" process? Or a link to that process? And explain the value of doing that? Thanx.
> 
> Rich


You can find rooting and other upgrade information for the Viewsonic G at http://forum.androidcentral.com/viewsonic-g-tablet/. That site has lots of good info for many different tablets (there are other good sites as well). There have been some pretty good deals (<$300) on that tablet recently.

Rooting (i.e., becoming the root or "superuser", terms common to the Linux OS) allows you to tinker with the filesystem and do things that you may not accomplish otherwise.

I have a Nook Color, which is a pretty good ebook reader with a couple of added features (the next upgrade should add a bunch more). By rooting, I was able to add the Android Market with a very large number of applications and turn it into a usable tablet computer.

You can also run advanced software versions and apps from a micro-SD card without having to root the device itself. I have Cyanogen Mod 7 (based on Android 2.3) running that way (dual boot) and have also tried Honeycomb (Android 3.0). Both of these are oriented more toward tablets instead of smart phones.


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## webby_s

rich584 said:


> Would you be able to give us some info on the "rooting" process? Or a link to that process? And explain the value of doing that? Thanx.
> 
> Rich





bobnielsen said:


> You can find rooting and other upgrade information for the Viewsonic G at http://forum.androidcentral.com/viewsonic-g-tablet/. That site has lots of good info for many different tablets (there are other good sites as well). There have been some pretty good deals (<$300) on that tablet recently.
> 
> Rooting (i.e., becoming the root or "superuser", terms common to the Linux OS) allows you to tinker with the filesystem and do things that you may not accomplish otherwise.
> 
> I have a Nook Color, which is a pretty good ebook reader with a couple of added features (the next upgrade should add a bunch more). By rooting, I was able to add the Android Market with a very large number of applications and turn it into a usable tablet computer.
> 
> You can also run advanced software versions and apps from a micro-SD card without having to root the device itself. I have Cyanogen Mod 7 (based on Android 2.3) running that way (dual boot) and have also tried Honeycomb (Android 3.0). Both of these are oriented more toward tablets instead of smart phones.


*bobnielsen* has given you great info, the site I usually go to is XDA. Gtab on XDA here They have IMO a little more info then Android Central but both equal quality.

I have rooted my Evo about 7 months ago so I had a little knowledge of what I needed to and compaired to most devices the Gtab is SIMPLE to root.


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## Rich

Sixto said:


> I might get flamed for this, so I apologize up-front, but I couldn't imagine buying any tablet other then an iPad.
> 
> Maybe it's my Blackberry mentality, where for the last several years, almost everyday there's something cooler on other people's devices ... Now I'm finally part of the majority / cool club, finally.
> 
> And everyone wants one (iPad). Been trying to get an iPad2, and the words from every location (Apple store, Best Buy, Radio Shack, Target), ...) is that the iPad2 is the most requested item, and sells out minutes after arrival.


I'll probably end up with one, just before they come out with the iPad3. This will never end.

Rich


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## Rich

Sixto said:


> Maybe a better choice of words would have been that it's nice to mostly never again need to worry about whether an App is available on my device, like the DirecTV App, but I probably have dozens of other examples (at least for me). Just like TV, content is king.


Agreed. That's the only reason I took the Xoom back. My Droid phone has so many more apps than the Xoom. I do understand the reason for that. Still doesn't satisfy me.

Rich


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## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm with you on that.
> 
> I'm certainly doing my homework on tablets before investing $500+ on one of them. I commend Rich584 for doing the same.
> 
> The most important criteria - it comes down to "What am I going to use if for most of the time, and what does it need to be able to do at any time?". As for Apps...if there are 1 million or 10,000...those numbers mean little, as long as all the key applications are available for what people use these devices for - the rest is mostly fluff stuff most will never use. Every iPad user I've seen in person has <100 apps installed.
> 
> I see this device as an opportunity to 1) View HD video (that eliminates the current iPads - but iPad 3 might be in play), 2) on some trips substitute for my laptop (it needs to view and interact with MS Office Powerpoint, Word, and Excel files, 3) it needs to (obviously) browse the web (Flash support is needed for many of the sites I frequent - also not supported by the current iOS tablets), 4) be able to print via bluetooth or USB connectivity directly from applications, 5) be able to store large files for access to #1 and #2 item files above, and 6) support network connectivity and security, including VPN access.
> 
> Everyone will have their own needs, but based on those - the newest Android tablets and perhaps iPad3 will be the focus and lead candidates. Right now, the Android 3.0 Honeycomb units seem to meet all these needs.
> 
> Since they are just starting to roll out one brand at a time...and iPad3 is likely 6 months or more away...Android units will get my attention to research in the next 90 days or so.


Um, the Xoom has the 3.0 Honeycomb, I believe. And a paucity of apps...just checked and it does have the Honeycomb.

Rich


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## raott

rich584 said:


> Agreed. That's the only reason I took the Xoom back. My Droid phone has so many more apps than the Xoom. I do understand the reason for that. Still doesn't satisfy me.
> 
> Rich


As Android ramps up, the app number disparity will become much less of an issue in the same way it has on the phone.


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## Rich

AttiTech said:


> I'm very interested in this thread because sometime in the coming months I'll be purchasing one of these 'things of beauty'. Anything with the Android OS is peaking my interest, but working with Apple products, in a work enviroment and for play, for 5 years is causing me to lean towards the iPad/iPad 2. The camera's are something that could be a make or break for me depending on how the PQ is. I take pictures of my son a lot throughout the day on my Android Comet and they turn out fairly nice depending on the lighting. The games are a lot of fun, and since my pc is connected to my only HD TV, it would be nice to have something other than my phone to surf the web and check my email on while my wife is melting faces on Bulletstorm :lol: What are the prices on the iPad/iPad2 now?
> 
> -Atti


If you're anything like most of us, you won't be satisfied with an iPad1. Not with the iPad2 staring you in the face.

Rich


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## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Only the Android tablets have HD (720p) resolution screens - iPads don't. The iPad3 is rumored to have their Retina screen, which would improve upon HD playback.
> 
> As for the Camera - the Androids have that covered well too.


Small screen, 720p is not bad. I watched some content on NetFlix on the iPad2 I had and it was more than acceptable. My Droid X has a very impressive camera.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Um, the *Xoom has the 3.0 Honeycomb*, I believe. And a paucity of apps...just checked and it does have the Honeycomb.
> 
> Rich


Yes - I reference that in Post #24.

Its the first of a multitude of new Android tablets.


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## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The new Android units are just starting to roll out.
> 
> My best recommendation is to follow this thread, and device informatoin links provided in posts, and the great information the many posters provide.
> 
> It appears Rich584, you, and I are all in about the same timelines for a buying decision, and exploring many of the same possibilities.
> 
> Regardless of anyone's choice (iPad, Android, or other), the first decision is what do you want it to do, and then pursue your best options along those lines. In terms of your question on Android tablet prices - there are tiers (based on internal memory), but you'll find them in the $449 -$579 range for the most part. Since they support SD card memory expansion for storage...you may not need the largest internal memory model.


I gotta try that Acer for $450. If the Xoom would have cost $450, I'd still have it.

Rich


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## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I gotta try that Acer for $450. If the Xoom would have cost $450, I'd still have it.
> 
> Rich


The Acer does look nice...and the 2 reviews I've seen point out the nice form factor in the hands (and slightly lighter than the Xoom).

With Best Buy selling them, and the $450 pricetag...it would seem to be a formidable player.


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## TBlazer07

Amazon now has the Samsung Galaxy Tab Wi-Fi version for $349.00.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004U9USEA/ref=nosim/?tag=fatwalletcom&linkCode=as1


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## Rich

TBlazer07 said:


> Amazon now has the Samsung Galaxy Tab Wi-Fi version for $349.00.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004U9USEA/ref=nosim/?tag=fatwalletcom&linkCode=as1


I had one in my hands the other day in BB in Bridgewater. I gotta go up there and see how the browser window looks. When I use Google on my Droid, I gotta constantly stretch the picture and read parts of pages. I kinda like the size of the Galaxy. I gotta try one out.

Does that rooting process involve anything physical. Like taking the thing apart? Can you reverse the process? What actual advantages do you see when you root the tablet?

Rich


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## phrelin

PC World ran a story yesterday Five Tablet Computer Myths, Busted Open which basically reports from a survey of tablet owners:

A whopping 82 percent use tablets primarily in the home;
Only half of tablet purchasers use them for music and video entertainment as they are mostly used at home where there is a large TV option except, of course, they count YouTube snippets and the like;
While people browse the web on a tablet, the use is different from that of a desktop PC as the use is primarily for searching for information;
A whopping 84 percent of use their tablet to play games;
Only 23 percent have not decreased their desktop/laptop usage after getting a tablet.

This was not posted from my iPad.


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## CCarncross

Anyone catch the HDNet World Report about Apple devices causing all the employee illnesses in China where they manufacturer them using some pretty caustic stuff? Made Apple look pretty bad.....course I'm sure Apple's not the only company guilty of all the bad stuff that gets done in that type of manufacturing....


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## AttiTech

Was just informed by a buddy of mine, Verizon has the Galaxy on sale for $199.

EDIT: Also, did anyone else see anything in Teigra 2 (sp?) with NVIDIA? Saw a video of them playing a FPS on it and it looked better than some of the computers I owned :grin:


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## Shades228

rich584 said:


> Would you be able to give us some info on the "rooting" process? Or a link to that process? And explain the value of doing that? Thanx.
> 
> Rich


Rooting means to give yourself superuser permission. Essentially when you get your device there are things you're not allowed to do. You're locked out of making certain changes so you can't do something that makes your device inoperable or remove something they don't want you to. Rooting allows you to do anything you want to a degree. You can't remove embedded programs or things like that. It gives you the option though of install custom ROMS.

Now what I think the OP was really getting to is once you root your device you can install a custom ROM. This is where the true power of Android OS comes out. ROMS are customer versions of Android OS and are usually much better than versions you will get from a manufacturer. They are always the latest version and usually are bloatware free.

However the one thing is this thread is talking about new tablets and all new tablets will be launching with Honeycombe so it's not as beneficial, at the moment, to root and rom your phone. There are very little ROMS out there right now. Rooting still allows you to run some apps that are nice like garbage clean up apps, overclocking, file explorers, ad removers, and other misc apps.


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## hdtvfan0001

phrelin said:


> PC World ran a story yesterday Five Tablet Computer Myths, Busted Open which basically reports from a survey of tablet owners:
> 
> A whopping 82 percent use tablets primarily in the home;
> Only half of tablet purchasers use them for music and video entertainment as they are mostly used at home where there is a large TV option except, of course, they count YouTube snippets and the like;
> While people browse the web on a tablet, the use is different from that of a desktop PC as the use is primarily for searching for information;
> A whopping 84 percent of use their tablet to play games;
> Only 23 percent have not decreased their desktop/laptop usage after getting a tablet.
> 
> This was not posted from my iPad.


Those are interesting stats to be sure.

Then again...the tablet era has only just begun, so much of that behavior is likely a result of what can/cannot be done with tablets to date.


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## AttiTech

I actually got to try an iPad out for size today. Went on my lunch break to visit a friend at StarTech and they had the iPad/iPad2's on display for customers to play with.....Wasn't that impressed really. Was hoping to be blown away, or atleast have the feelings the guys did in the high speed Penzoil commercial with their hair "blowing in the wind"
Alas, no magic, no sparkle, just dead weight and not very rounded edges.


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## webby_s

phrelin said:


> [*]A whopping 82 percent use tablets primarily in the home;
> 
> [*]Only half of tablet purchasers use them for music and video entertainment as they are mostly used at home where there is a large TV option except, of course, they count YouTube snippets and the like;
> 
> [*]While people browse the web on a tablet, the use is different from that of a desktop PC as the use is primarily for searching for information;
> 
> [*]A whopping 84 percent of use their tablet to play games;
> 
> [*]Only 23 percent have not decreased their desktop/laptop usage after getting a tablet.
> [/LIST]
> 
> This was not posted from my iPad.


I can admit to a few of these stats. If not all. But I would say (personally) I have used my laptop/desktop less (at home) but no significant, but noticeably. I have an app (thumb keyboard) on my gtab that helps with typing, but if I had a standard keyboard on it, I would not use it as often. It can be impossible to type with a landscape type keyboard. I need my thumb keyboard.

I do a lot of browsing on the tab. I do some (maybe 30%) gaming on my tab and hope that gets higher! Music, slim to none. Evo smartphone for music, a lot more!


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## Drucifer

If I still work, I would have one. It would have replace my PDA. But being retired I can't figure out a use for it. Maybe if it had an automatic baseball scoring app that would track a MLB game I was at, I would look into getting one, but that app and those features don't exist yet.


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## Chris Blount

Drucifer said:


> If I still work, I would have one. It would have replace my PDA. But being retired I can't figure out a use for it. Maybe if it had an automatic baseball scoring app that would track a MLB game I was at, I would look into getting one, but that app and those features don't exist yet.


http://mlb.mlb.com/mobile/atbat/


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## Rich

phrelin said:


> PC World ran a story yesterday Five Tablet Computer Myths, Busted Open which basically reports from a survey of tablet owners:
> 
> A whopping 82 percent use tablets primarily in the home;
> Only half of tablet purchasers use them for music and video entertainment as they are mostly used at home where there is a large TV option except, of course, they count YouTube snippets and the like;
> While people browse the web on a tablet, the use is different from that of a desktop PC as the use is primarily for searching for information;
> A whopping 84 percent of use their tablet to play games;
> Only 23 percent have not decreased their desktop/laptop usage after getting a tablet.
> 
> This was not posted from my iPad.


I know I don't want to use a tablet for music or video. Got enough devices for that. Don't want to pay for another data plan, so I'd only use it in the house. I do use my smart phone only for info that I want quickly. Don't play games. Can't imagine not using my desktops and laptops because I buy a tablet.

Matter of fact, I'm still kinda searching for a reason to buy a tablet. Money's not an issue, altho I don't like not being able to buy what I want when I want it (talking about the iPad2 here). Waiting three to six weeks for something that should be almost instantly available at those prices is ridiculous. Couldn't even bribe an Apple Store employee to hold one for me. Now we find that BB is hoarding them.

Rich


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## Sixto

Chris Blount said:


> http://mlb.mlb.com/mobile/atbat/


Love the App. Just love it.

You can watch all the highlights of a game in 10 minutes, and the highlights appear during the game if you missed anything.

Also found a new use for MLB At Bat this week, took a picture of the screen during a game to show the eBay buyer of my iPad1 that it was real and in mint condition before he paid. 

Off to Best Buy in a little while, to try and benefit from the Sunday iPad2 promotion, probably low odds but gonna try anyway ...

Best Buy and Toys R' Us Selling iPads on Sunday:http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/17/best-buy-and-toys-r-us-selling-ipads-on-sunday/​


----------



## Rich

CCarncross said:


> Anyone catch the HDNet World Report about Apple devices causing all the employee illnesses in China where they manufacturer them using some pretty caustic stuff? Made Apple look pretty bad.....course I'm sure Apple's not the only company guilty of all the bad stuff that gets done in that type of manufacturing....


Better to blame China's lack of safety procedures in manufacturing than to blame Apple. There's a reason we send all our manufacturing to other countries. It's too expensive to make them here under the strictures of the various agencies that police manufacturing. I know we followed the rules and regs of the countries we set up plants in until Bhopal. After that we followed our regs no matter where the plant was. NAFTA wasn't really about "jobs", it was about making products at a lower cost because no other country has more restrictive manufacturing policies in this hemisphere than we do.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> Rooting means to give yourself superuser permission. Essentially when you get your device there are things you're not allowed to do. You're locked out of making certain changes so you can't do something that makes your device inoperable or remove something they don't want you to. Rooting allows you to do anything you want to a degree. You can't remove embedded programs or things like that. It gives you the option though of install custom ROMS.
> 
> Now what I think the OP was really getting to is once you root your device you can install a custom ROM. This is where the true power of Android OS comes out. ROMS are customer versions of Android OS and are usually much better than versions you will get from a manufacturer. They are always the latest version and usually are bloatware free.
> 
> However the one thing is this thread is talking about new tablets and all new tablets will be launching with Honeycombe so it's not as beneficial, at the moment, to root and rom your phone. There are very little ROMS out there right now. Rooting still allows you to run some apps that are nice like garbage clean up apps, overclocking, file explorers, ad removers, and other misc apps.


Thanx,

Rich


----------



## Sixto

rich584 said:


> ... Waiting three to six weeks for something that should be almost instantly available at those prices is ridiculous. Couldn't even bribe an Apple Store employee to hold one for me. Now we find that BB is hoarding them.
> 
> Rich


Yep, I really thought that after I sold my iPad1 last week, that I'd find a way to pickup an iPad2 the next day. It's been a month since availability, and I was ready to drive anywhere within 50 miles.

I started the day fully confident. 

I tried, really tried, called every Apple Store, and checked with Best Buy, Target, Radio Shack, and the local AT&T stores.

What shocked me wasn't that they didn't have my specific model (of the 18 models), it was that almost every location had zero, ZERO models in stock.

I did find one store with the 64GB Verizon While model but I passed.


----------



## Sixto

Lesson for the day ... Don't believe what you read on the internet. 

Went to Best Buy. 

Despite the postings on the internet, and today's flyer in the paper, about today's big launch. 

They had no idea what I was referring to, no iPad2s in stock, and didn't know when the next batch would come in. 

Did decide to do the reserve thing, just in case, and there was a long line of others doing the same.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:



> Lesson for the day ... Don't believe what you read on the internet.
> 
> Went to Best Buy.
> 
> Despite the postings on the internet, and today's flyer in the paper, about today's big launch.
> 
> They had no idea what I was referring to, no iPad2s in stock, and didn't know when the next batch would come in.
> 
> Did decide to do the reserve thing, just in case, and there was a long line of others doing the same.


That's the challenge of doing a marketing piece well in advance of inventory shipments. It happens lots of places unfortunately. On the other hand...iPad2s have been sparce in general. That likely comes as no surprise. 

I suspect inventories of the new line of Android v3.0-based tablets will be in and out of stock quickly as well, based on demand.


----------



## AttiTech

Think I'm going to be purchasing the Xoom WiFi


----------



## seern

I have been looking at the Zoom WiFi and I am seeing the same price $589 at any place I look. Some savings, only $10 off retail for the big launch.


----------



## AttiTech

seern said:


> I have been looking at the Zoom WiFi and I am seeing the same price $589 at any place I look. Some savings, only $10 off retail for the big launch.


Yeah, I mean it's not a terrible price, but after playing with the iPad and looking at a side by side review, I think the Xoom just destroy's the iPad. It is a little heavier, but since I'm buying the WiFi version, then obviously I'm not going to be taking it around town often, if ever.


----------



## Drucifer

Drucifer said:


> If I still work, I would have one. It would have replace my PDA. But being retired I can't figure out a use for it. Maybe if it had an automatic baseball scoring app that would track a MLB game I was at, I would look into getting one, but that app and those features don't exist yet.





 Chris Blount said:


> http://mlb.mlb.com/mobile/atbat/


Well that was quick. They almost got everything covered.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> Think I'm going to be purchasing the Xoom WiFi





seern said:


> I have been looking at the Zoom WiFi and I am seeing the same price $589 at any place I look. Some savings, only $10 off retail for the big launch.





AttiTech said:


> Yeah, I mean it's not a terrible price, but after playing with the iPad and looking at a side by side review, I think the Xoom just destroy's the iPad. It is a little heavier, but since I'm buying the WiFi version, then obviously I'm not going to be taking it around town often, if ever.


The Xoom was impressive at CES in January.

That said...some of its recent announced cousins (Toshiba, Acer, and others) seem to have exactly the same composition/connectivity/horsepower, but at a lower price.


----------



## Rich

seern said:


> I have been looking at the Zoom WiFi and I am seeing the same price $589 at any place I look. Some savings, only $10 off retail for the big launch.


Wait a little while or try one where you can easily return it. BB will give you 14 days to play with it and so will Staples. I liked the one I got at Staples, but I got a feeling that one of the newer ones is gonna be better. I satisfied my curiosity and then took the Xoom back. Not enough apps yet. YET. I'm pretty sure they will add more quickly. Meanwhile, the Acer is gonna come out and cost $450. If it works the same as the Xoom...

Rich


----------



## seern

Exactly, Rich... I waited on a new droid phone until I got a deal on BB.com on Black Friday. Got a Samsung Galaxy Fascinate for nothing, and am loving the heck out of it.


----------



## sum_random_dork

I went with a 16gig iPad, debated on doing a 3g verision but couldn't justify the cost (in my head). It arrived Thursday and so far I have enjoyed it. I hope to start using it with work and carrying less paper and POS around when I make calls but instead have just about everything on the iPad. Overall my impressions are very good, I did add a few apps and I must admit there are some good business apps on the iPad that work with Microsoft documents. I added Slingplayer for iPad and gotta say it's a lot better than the iPhone/iPod touch version, the clarity is really good. My next app will be one so I can print from the iPad, trying out a few of the free ones to figure out which one works with my various printer set ups.


----------



## AttiTech

I did a comparison of the Galaxy S vs the Xoom but it seems like the Xoom has more features, but the only thing the Galaxy S has is weight. I have till September and I'm figuring to spend about $700 or so to get the tablet and a gel case for it. The others I haven't heard much information at all on it, but I know I want whatever tablet I buy to be ran with Honeycomb and Tegra.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> I did a comparison of the Galaxy S vs the Xoom but it seems like the Xoom has more features, but the only thing the Galaxy S has is weight. I have till September and I'm figuring to spend about $700 or so to get the tablet and a gel case for it. The others I haven't heard much information at all on it, but I know I want whatever tablet I buy to be ran with Honeycomb and Tegra.


Plenty of time to do more evaluation...some others are in the same boat of taking their time to make the right choices the first time.

It is likely you may also have some $$$ left in your pocket with some patience.


----------



## Drucifer

Just got a Staples email flyer and it's pushing the Blackberry Playbook that just been release.

You need a score book to keep track of what's out, what's coming out and what's plan for the near future.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Plenty of time to do more evaluation...some others are in the same boat of taking their time to make the right choices the first time.
> 
> It is likely you may also have some $$$ left in your pocket with some patience.


There in lies the problem. I'm EXTREMELY impatient when it comes to new toys :lol: Even though this toy is for my wifes birthday...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Drucifer said:


> Just got a Staples email flyer and it's pushing the Blackberry Playbook that just been release.
> 
> You need a score book to keep track of what's out, what's coming out and what's plan for the near future.


Yup. Saw that too.

I've been following that unit for a bit. I think it'll have some "phase 2" enhancements perhaps 4-6 months later that will make it an apple-to-apples competitor (not day one). The reviews have been very good.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup. Saw that too.
> 
> I've been following that unit for a bit. I think it'll have some "phase 2" enhancements perhaps 4-6 months later that will make it an apple-to-apples competitor (not day one). The reviews have been very good.


I don't know how I feel about the Blackberry tablet. I've never read a review and only seen a glimpse of one in a picture, but still feel reluctant to even give it a fair chance. Not sure what in my subconcious is telling me not to since I love Blackberry phones....Maybe it's because secretly I love my Android phone more.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> I don't know how I feel about the Blackberry tablet. I've never read a review and only seen a glimpse of one in a picture, but still feel reluctant to even give it a fair chance. Not sure what in my subconscious is telling me not to since I love Blackberry phones....Maybe it's because secretly I love my Android phone more.


There are some drawbacks day one - such as the need to tether Internet connections - that will be changed a few months later.

I've read one deeper review that ranked it higher than both the Android and iPad tablets...but I suspect the jury will be out on them until late this year at the soonest.

It's just nice to see more competition in this space, along with additional capabilities that many of us are seeking.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There are some drawbacks day one - such as the need to tether Internet connections - that will be changed a few months later.
> 
> I've read one deeper review that ranked it higher than both the Android and iPad tablets...but I suspect the jury will be out on them until late this year at the soonest.
> 
> It's just nice to see more competition in this space, along with additional capabilities that many of us are seeking.


I'm very happy to see so much competition here with the tablets. I enjoy making difficult decisions on multiple techy products. As long as the graphics are great, it's fast, the tilt sensor isn't terrible, and it's Android powered then I can base my decision from there on Maximum storage capacity, output/input options, weight, and screen size


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> I'm very happy to see so much competition here with the tablets. I enjoy making difficult decisions on multiple techy products. As long as the graphics are great, it's fast, the tilt sensor isn't terrible, and it's Android powered then I can base my decision from there on Maximum storage capacity, output/input options, weight, and screen size


Based on what I see out there...it appears we'll know alot more in the next 1-2 months on the Android releases.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Based on what I see out there...it appears we'll know alot more in the next 1-2 months on the Android releases.


I have 5 months until I need to make a final decision. Sept 24th, sons birthday, Sept 30th...wife's. I'm not the best with timing :lol: BUT, atleast I'll know which one I'll like, which is what I know she'll like. I've indirectly dropped information on tablets to her when I find out details and gauge her reaction


----------



## Rich

seern said:


> Exactly, Rich... I waited on a new droid phone until I got a deal on BB.com on Black Friday. Got a Samsung Galaxy Fascinate for nothing, and am loving the heck out of it.


I got the Droid X for about the same price. 

It's a great phone. I do use it for info if I'm not near a computer, but I'd really rather use a computer. As big as the screen is, it's really to small for me.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Based on what I see out there...it appears we'll know alot more in the next 1-2 months on the Android releases.


I've been pondering the Android tablets. If they all use the same OS, have the same size screen, have the same speed and access to the same apps, aren't they gonna be kinda the same? Then it comes down to price, if that's true, and we're already seeing the prices drop. I'd like to try the Acer out and see if there's really any significant difference between the Acer and the Xoom besides the price.

I've been putting off buying a 60" plasma because of the prices. I want a 3D set, only because the 2D picture is so good. But I hate the idea of spending 3 grand for one and seeing the price drop in half a few months after I buy it. That's the same reason I haven't gotten a tablet yet, that and the fact that I still don't see a need for one. I don't have to work and I realize that takes some of the advantages of using one away.

And yet, my heart fills with lust every time I read about a new tablet being introduced.

Rich


----------



## TBoneit

Rich, I guess you are close to me if you mentioned the Bridgewater BB which is the one I use.

Moving on, can someone explain to me what these tablets do better than a laptop or Desktop computer?

Keep in mind I don't use cellular phones or carry a camera.

Between the time I leave for work or leave work for home I'm six or seven minutes from a computer max. I don't game beyond Solitaire. I'm not interested in watching TV except on a TV at home or work.

I had a customer that has an Iphone & Ipad2 try to explain how either would benefit me, No luck there.

I'm not technophobic, I have two laptops both running Win7 Home & Pro, a Nice desktop i7 powered running Win7Pro.

I am a believer in the proper tool, I use one laptop for Bill paying, Online Banking, Income Tax, Newegg & Amazon. No Browsing the WWW, no Email. Get on it do my thing shut it down for another week or two. Second laptop just finished loading Win7Pro and will transition to it for the above purposes and keep the other one as a spare. 

Everything else is done on the desktop computer. 

Thanks
RT


----------



## Rich

TBoneit said:


> Rich, I guess you are close to me if you mentioned the Bridgewater BB which is the one I use.
> 
> Moving on, can someone explain to me what these tablets do better than a laptop or Desktop computer?
> 
> Keep in mind I don't use cellular phones or carry a camera.
> 
> Between the time I leave for work or leave work for home I'm six or seven minutes from a computer max. I don't game beyond Solitaire. I'm not interested in watching TV except on a TV at home or work.
> 
> I had a customer that has an Iphone & Ipad2 try to explain how either would benefit me, No luck there.
> 
> I'm not technophobic, I have two laptops both running Win7 Home & Pro, a Nice desktop i7 powered running Win7Pro.
> 
> I am a believer in the proper tool, I use one laptop for Bill paying, Online Banking, Income Tax, Newegg & Amazon. No Browsing the WWW, no Email. Get on it do my thing shut it down for another week or two. Second laptop just finished loading Win7Pro and will transition to it for the above purposes and keep the other one as a spare.
> 
> Everything else is done on the desktop computer.
> 
> Thanks
> RT


I'm having the same problem justifying one. But when my heart fills with lust for something, I just can't help myself. I'll end with one and use it to solve crossword puzzles and wonder why I bought it..... :lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I've been pondering the Android tablets. If they all use the same OS, have the same size screen, have the same speed and access to the same apps, aren't they gonna be kinda the same? Then it comes down to price, if that's true, and we're already seeing the prices drop. I'd like to try the Acer out and see if there's really any significant difference between the Acer and the Xoom besides the price.


Yes - they are mostly the same in terms of features and connectivity.

The weight and form factor (how they feel when you hold them) will vary.

As of now, Toshiba's tablet has one other differentiator - a removable/replacement battery (supposedly $89). Other than that...


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yes - they are mostly the same in terms of features and connectivity.
> 
> The weight and form factor (how they feel when you hold them) will vary.
> 
> As of now, Toshiba's tablet has one other differentiator - a removable/replacement battery (supposedly $89). Other than that...


I really don't trust batteries enough not to have a simple way to replace them.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I really don't trust batteries enough not to have a simple way to replace them.
> 
> Rich


There are a few other folks I've spoken with who feel the same way. Almost all other tablets have internal (non-replaceable by the user) batteries...except for the new Toshiba Android device.


----------



## TBoneit

Rich

Yup, it isn't the cost. The problem is justifying one. So far I know of no compelling reason to buy. OTOH I am thinking of popping out to BB this week for another NAS. I'm running out of room on the network. That I can easily justify.


Hmmm... hard to replace battery, reminds me of Ipods.

Cheers
RT


----------



## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I've been following that unit for a bit. I think it'll have some "phase 2" enhancements perhaps 4-6 months later that will make it an apple-to-apples competitor (not day one). *The reviews have been very good.*


Like THIS ONE?

Or This One?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> Like THIS ONE?
> 
> Or This One?


<In a Hertz voice> Not exactly....


----------



## Sixto

spartanstew said:


> Like THIS ONE? ...


Wow, man, that guy was brutal.

He was somewhat misleading, it does do e-mail but you need a Blackberry. He does slip that in at the end, but it's not like RIM totally forgot about e-mail, which he makes it sound like at the beginning.

Really brutal, it's a tough world out there.


----------



## TBlazer07

AttiTech said:


> Was just informed by a buddy of mine, Verizon has the Galaxy on sale for $199.


Is that with contract? Without contract it's a steal. With contract fugetaboutit.


----------



## AttiTech

TBlazer07 said:


> Is that with contract? Without contract it's a steal. With contract fugetaboutit.


I think he said without, but I can't be 100% sure.


----------



## TBlazer07

AttiTech said:


> I think he said without, but I can't be 100% sure.


 Without contract I'd buy 12 and sell them on eBay for $300+ ea in a minute. Gotta check that out tomorrow. Doesn't sound right but neither did Verizon selling iPad 1's for cheap but they did.


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> I've been putting off buying a 60" plasma because of the prices. I want a 3D set, only because the 2D picture is so good. But I hate the idea of spending 3 grand for one and seeing the price drop in half a few months after I buy it.


A little off topic but I was the same way. Spending close to $3000 for a 3DTV was something I didn't want to do yet. I also did some soul searching and realized that any 3D that is worthwhile must be large. Small 3DTV (even at 55") is actually too small. So I leapfrogged over all the current 3DTV's and went directly to 3D projection system. For about $1000, you can get a 3D projector and adapter (like Optoma's 3DXL). It's absolutely amazing and much more immersive than trying to watch 3D on a smaller set.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Sixto said:


> Wow, man, that guy was brutal.
> 
> He was somewhat misleading, it does do e-mail but you need a Blackberry. He does slip that in at the end, but it's not like RIM totally forgot about e-mail, which he makes it sound like at the beginning.
> 
> Really brutal, it's a tough world out there.


Honestly, yes. They forgot about email totally. This product is rushed as hell. How can you skip having a stock, onboard email client ON A BLACKBERRY DEVICE??


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> Honestly, yes. They forgot about email totally. This product is rushed as hell. How can you skip having a stock, onboard email client ON A BLACKBERRY DEVICE??


They forgot nothing (planned for it all along its what they do better than almost anybody). What they did is released the product 3 months too soon.

Shame on them for that.


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> Like THIS ONE?
> 
> Or This One?


That's pretty much what I've been reading too. My heart is NOT filled with lust for one of these.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There are a few other folks I've spoken with who feel the same way. Almost all other tablets have internal (non-replaceable by the user) batteries...except for the new Toshiba Android device.


Here's what I think of battery driven devices in a nut shell: Who the hell would buy a device that they might keep for years if you can't change the batteries? I asked an Apple Store person about the batteries and his answer was that they can be sent to...someone, somewhere who replaces the batteries if they go south. So, if you're absolutely wrapped up in your iPadx and the battery fails, you send it out and get it back...when? Nobody in the Apple Store knew.

Much as I dislike anything Toshiba (I felt that way about Panasonic, too. And about Samsung. I've now got a lot of Panny products and Sammy products.), they seem to be the only one making sense when it comes to this very important feature. Let me state this clearly: Batteries fail over time and usage. They are usually the weakest link in any device. Wouldn't you think all the tablet makers would have easily removable, easily replaceable batteries in their devices?

Rich


----------



## Rich

TBoneit said:


> Rich
> 
> Yup, it isn't the cost. The problem is justifying one. So far I know of no compelling reason to buy. OTOH I am thinking of popping out to BB this week for another NAS. I'm running out of room on the network. That I can easily justify.
> 
> Hmmm... hard to replace battery, reminds me of Ipods.
> 
> Cheers
> RT


I know a VP of a very large company. He uses his iPad2 every day...to answer emails. True story. And he makes a point of carrying it everywhere he goes. Must get very important emails.....:lol:

Believe me, I'm willing to have my mind changed. I still haven't seen anything that interests me that I can't do on my smart-phone.

My son doesn't want a tablet. My son, who practically slept all night in front of a BB to get a WII sees no use for a tablet. My son, who has spent a fortune (of our money) on game platforms, laptops, desktops, iPods, etc. turned down the Xoom when I offered it to him before I returned it.

I'm willing to listen and try to understand what advantages the tablets have and my heart is still filled with lust for one. I'm sure I'll end up with one, but I'd sure like to understand what I'm gonna do with it.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Here's what I think of battery driven devices in a nut shell: Who the hell would buy a device that they might keep for years if you can't change the batteries? I asked an Apple Store person about the batteries and his answer was that they can be sent to...someone, somewhere who replaces the batteries if they go south. So, if you're absolutely wrapped up in your iPadx and the battery fails, you send it out and get it back...when? Nobody in the Apple Store knew.
> 
> Much as I dislike anything Toshiba (I felt that way about Panasonic, too. And about Samsung. I've now got a lot of Panny products and Sammy products.), they seem to be the only one making sense when it comes to this very important feature. Let me state this clearly: *Batteries fail over time and usage. They are usually the weakest link in any device.* Wouldn't you think all the tablet makers would have easily removable, easily replaceable batteries in their devices?
> 
> Rich


Though speakest the truth. 

I'm with ya on that.

Internal battery replacements can be a major pain. Ask anyone with an iPod who had that situation. With a Toshiba tablet replacement battery only $89 and 15 seconds to swap it out...I honestly don't understand what the tablet makers are thinking with non-replaceable batteries (or factory-only).


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> A little off topic but I was the same way. Spending close to $3000 for a 3DTV was something I didn't want to do yet. I also did some soul searching and realized that any 3D that is worthwhile must be large. Small 3DTV (even at 55") is actually too small. So I leapfrogged over all the current 3DTV's and went directly to 3D projection system. For about $1000, you can get a 3D projector and adapter (like Optoma's 3DXL). It's absolutely amazing and much more immersive than trying to watch 3D on a smaller set.


My wife is in the process of remodeling our home. She has asked me several times if I wanted to use the huge room we now use as a combination dining room and living room as a theater room. I hope she doesn't see this post, especially coming from you. 

The one thing I don't want is a projector that has to be ceiling mounted. Access to the attic over that room is very limited. The other thing that bothers me is glasses over glasses. Not a problem for my wife and son, they can both wear contacts. I can't.

I'll check that Optoma out. Thanx for the tip. (I think.)

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Though speakest the truth.
> 
> I'm with ya on that.
> 
> Internal battery replacements can be a major pain. Ask anyone with an iPod who had that situation. With a Toshiba tablet replacement battery only $89 and 15 seconds to swap it out...I honestly don't understand what the tablet makers are thinking with non-replaceable batteries (or factory-only).


I gotta a pretty good idea what they're thinking of. A revenue stream caused by very expensive battery changes that can't be done in our homes. And the idea that a lot of folks will just buy a newer model just so they won't lose their devices for four to six weeks while the battery is changed.

Rich


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Though speakest the truth.
> 
> I'm with ya on that.
> 
> Internal battery replacements can be a major pain. Ask anyone with an iPod who had that situation. With a Toshiba tablet replacement battery only $89 and 15 seconds to swap it out...I honestly don't understand what the tablet makers are thinking with non-replaceable batteries (or factory-only).


It's just one more way for 'the man' to stick it to you  
I'd rather purchase a tablet with a replaceable battery, just like my Android, than purchase something I'd have to wait to be returned from someone who does the job for me. I've never been big on having other people do work for me that I know I can do my self (e.g Changing my oil, tires, stereo system, fixing my computers, home repairs, ect). 
As for carrying it everywhere I go :No No!: not going to happen. If I need important emails, my Android it sync'd to my gmail account and it actually fits in my pocket. Plus I don't see paying an extra monthly fee when my phone has internet, email, app store and gps. Biggest thing I'd have it for is because I'm using an Android Comet. Everything and more my phone does, with the WiFi only version at home while my wife is using the computer, I don't have to be bored or use a small screen anymore!


----------



## trdrjeff

TBlazer07 said:


> If you simply want to "test drive" a tablet without spending a lot of money get a Barnes & Noble Nook Color and turn it into a nice fully functional Android (2.2) tablet with little effort. It's much more than I need as I really have no use for a tablet other than as a "gadget" but for $249 (I got mine for $140 with a bunch of Groupon coupons a while back) and 20 minutes to "root" it it works just as well as the $500+ Galaxy Tab albeit without GPS. I tether it to my iPhone for a 3G connection if needed.


+1

Has the option to dualboot, but with the built in backup feature (to stock nook) I went ahead and put CM7 on it and it's a very useful tablet now. Great form factor that the misses can carry it in her purse and you can grab it quickly to check something while watching TV. I can even use it as a video player for the kid in the backseat


----------



## AttiTech

trdrjeff said:


> +1
> 
> Has the option to dualboot, but with the built in backup feature (to stock nook) I went ahead and put CM7 on it and it's a very useful tablet now. Great form factor that the misses can carry it in her purse and you can grab it quickly to check something while watching TV. I can even use it as a video player for the kid in the backseat


I would like to hear more on this Nook Color root. This probably wouldn't replace a tablet for me (or it might) but I like using things for something other than their intended purpose  I'm curious as to what it unlocks for you and what all you use it for.


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> The one thing I don't want is a projector that has to be ceiling mounted. Access to the attic over that room is very limited. The other thing that bothers me is glasses over glasses. Not a problem for my wife and son, they can both wear contacts. I can't.


I have the same issue with ceiling mounts. My projectors are not ceiling mounted. I purchased a tall shelf, put some wheels on it and roll it out into the room when I use it. The screen is pull down. Simple, yet effective. I would recommend the Optoma HD66 projector and the Optoma 3DXL 3D adapter. Of course you will also need a 3D Blu-Ray player and DLP Link glasses (ranging from $50 to $100 a piece). The projector makes a pretty good (and bright) 2D projector as well (only 720p though).

Not trying to hijack this thread. Sorry guys.


----------



## FHSPSU67

rich584 said:


> The other thing that bothers me is glasses over glasses. Not a problem for my wife and son, they can both wear contacts. I can't.
> 
> Rich


I wear glasses and have found 3D glasses to be almost comfortable when watching 3D. Not bad at all, and the 3D picture is well worth any minor discomfort. Same with my wife.
Also not trying to hijack this thread. Sorry Guys.


----------



## trdrjeff

AttiTech said:


> I would like to hear more on this Nook Color root. This probably wouldn't replace a tablet for me (or it might) but I like using things for something other than their intended purpose  I'm curious as to what it unlocks for you and what all you use it for.


It essentially takes what was just a e-reader and gives it all the abilities of an Android tablet (sans GPS, camera). CyanogenMod7 is a developer community build of the Android 2.3 OS (Gingerbread), opens up the device to most of the market apps and adds softkeys for easier navigation. And you can still use it as a nook reader with the android nook app. There's also a built in safe recovery that reloads the original nook os when it has 8 interrupted boot cycles (important when you start messing with WAF :lol.

Here's a good resource to what people are doing with them:
http://nookdevs.com/Portal:NookColor


----------



## AttiTech

FHSPSU67 said:


> I wear glasses and have found 3D glasses to be almost comfortable when watching 3D. Not bad at all, and the 3D picture is well worth any minor discomfort. Same with my wife.
> Also not trying to hijack this thread. Sorry Guys.


Same here. I haven't found any issues with the 3d glasses and I have to wear glasses as well. The only ones that bother me are the ones from the Theatre.


----------



## AttiTech

trdrjeff said:


> It essentially takes what was just a e-reader and gives it all the abilities of an Android tablet (sans GPS, camera). CyanogenMod7 is a developer community build of the Android 2.3 OS (Gingerbread), opens up the device to most of the market apps and adds softkeys for easier navigation. And you can still use it as a nook reader with the android nook app. There's also a built in safe recovery that reloads the original nook os when it has 8 interrupted boot cycles (important when you start messing with WAF :lol.
> 
> Here's a good resource to what people are doing with them:
> http://nookdevs.com/Portal:NookColor


How well does it work as a tablet though? If it picks up from WiFi and unlocks the android market then it sounds like a fun weekend project for me. If it's buggy and VERY limited on what it can do, it doesn't seem worth the time and money. Anyone know any videos posted of someone using one?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> How well does it work as a tablet though? If it picks up from WiFi and unlocks the android market then it sounds like a fun weekend project for me. If it's buggy and VERY limited on what it can do, it doesn't seem worth the time and money. Anyone know any videos posted of someone using one?


Also...if it doesn't run on Android 3...it will be left behind by most applications.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Also...if it doesn't run on Android 3...it will be left behind by most applications.


http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=936995

Seems someone is working on it. I'm thinking about trying the Nook Color for fun sometime soon


----------



## trdrjeff

It has wifi and bluetooth (some people are tethering it to BT GPS dongles to make better use of Google Maps). CM7 is not buggy at all. Browsing, Youtube, Facebook etc all work well. Hmm that reminds me I need to try the DirecTV app on it  . The Rockplayer app will play most all videos you throw at it. 

Most all apps will run on it, some will not populate the entire screen though. 

What else are you interested in doing with one?


----------



## trdrjeff

I ran 3.0 (Honeycomb) on it off the SD card but it was not ready for primetime. Most folks running CM7 are very happy with it.


----------



## AttiTech

trdrjeff said:


> It has wifi and bluetooth (some people are tethering it to BT GPS dongles to make better use of Google Maps). CM7 is not buggy at all. Browsing, Youtube, Facebook etc all work well. Hmm that reminds me I need to try the DirecTV app on it  . The Rockplayer app will play most all videos you throw at it.
> 
> Most all apps will run on it, some will not populate the entire screen though.
> 
> What else are you interested in doing with one?


Other than what you just named, the same thing we do every night, Pinky.....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

trdrjeff said:


> I ran 3.0 (Honeycomb) on it off the SD card but it was not ready for primetime. Most folks running CM7 are very happy with it.


I suspect the CPU in that device can't handle Android 3.0.

Both the memory and processing power requirements are higher than the previous OSv2.3.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect the CPU in that device can't handle Android 3.0.
> 
> Both the memory and processing power requirements are higher than the previous OSv2.3.


What are the specs for that on a nook color? The new tablets are only pushing a 1ghz processor aren't they?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> What are the specs for that on a nook color? The new tablets are only pushing a 1ghz processor aren't they?


The specs for Android 3 tablets affect processor speed, dual core processing, memory, and other corresponding considerations.


----------



## Juanus

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the HP Touchpad with WebOS. I got a Palm Pre and WebOS is really good. I have been looking forward to when the Touchpad comes out.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The specs for Android 3 tablets affect processor speed, dual core processing, memory, and other corresponding considerations.


I really don't want to start hacking tablets. I just wanna buy one that does everything that makes sense. (Starting with an easily replaceable battery.) I've learned so much over the last five years, and I don't want to start over again. I just want to enjoy my toys, not rebuild them, altho I do understand the drive some of you have to do just that, and I have the utmost respect for you.

All I ever wanted to do was chase women (don't do that anymore), drink beer (don't do that anymore), and howl at the moon after playing baseball (don't do that anymore, either). Now I'd just like to play with my toys.

And, of course, I have every intention of reading those links that lead to hacking tablets and will probably get interested and start doing it. If my head doesn't explode first......:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

Juanus said:


> I am surprised that no one has mentioned the HP Touchpad with WebOS. I got a Palm Pre and WebOS is really good. I have been looking forward to when the Touchpad comes out.


That looks really interesting too. They all look interesting. Didn't see any mention of battery changing tho. Thanx for the link.

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

Interesting how you guys are really big on the battery replacement thing. It has never been an issue for me both on tablets and phones. I think over the past 13 years since I started carrying around a cell phone, I think I only replaced a battery on one of those phones. 

Even though the battery may be the weakest link, it will still takes a few years for the battery to start screwing up and usually by that time it will be time upgrade to a new tablet.


----------



## TBoneit

Chris Blount said:


> Interesting how you guys are really big on the battery replacement thing. It has never been an issue for me both on tablets and phones. I think over the past 13 years since I started carrying around a cell phone, I think I only replaced a battery on one of those phones.
> 
> Even though the battery may be the weakest link, it will still takes a few years for the battery to start screwing up and usually by that time it will be time upgrade to a new tablet.


Chris, My brother has replaced the battery in his phone twice. Some people hold onto something longer than others.

See my next reply for other reasons.

Cheers


----------



## TBoneit

rich584 said:


> I know a VP of a very large company. He uses his iPad2 every day...to answer emails. True story. And he makes a point of carrying it everywhere he goes. Must get very important emails.....:lol:
> 
> Believe me, I'm willing to have my mind changed. I still haven't seen anything that interests me that I can't do on my smart-phone.
> 
> My son doesn't want a tablet. My son, who practically slept all night in front of a BB to get a WII sees no use for a tablet. My son, who has spent a fortune (of our money) on game platforms, laptops, desktops, iPods, etc. turned down the Xoom when I offered it to him before I returned it.
> 
> I'm willing to listen and try to understand what advantages the tablets have and my heart is still filled with lust for one. I'm sure I'll end up with one, but I'd sure like to understand what I'm gonna do with it.
> 
> Rich


There must be a problem when your son doesn't want one.

Can not swap battery when first one runs down = Strike one.
No keyboard = Strike two
Small screen = strike 2.5

One model left in contention!

Moving on to battery's being replaceable.
Laptops have it right, need longer battery life just swap in your spare. There have been Dell models, for example, where you could pull the optical drive and plug in a second battery so you didn't even have to swap.

We serviced a lot of Ipods for bad battery life, everything else was good, just a bad battery. Easy swap would have been nice.


----------



## trdrjeff

I gotta say each new phone I get, the more capable the phone the quicker the battery loses charging capacity. My BB went about a year before needing a replacement. My Droid X is 8-9 mos old and the stock battery is going...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

trdrjeff said:


> I gotta say each new phone I get, the more capable the phone the quicker the battery loses charging capacity. My BB went about a year before needing a replacement. My Droid X is 8-9 mos old and the stock battery is going...


Just ask any iPhone user - my daughter charges hers as much as 3 times a day if using it for web access. My nephew is on his 3rd iPod device based on not holding a charge.

I suspect that some time in maybe 6 months from now, we'll start hearing about the first group of cases where iPads no longer hold their charge "like they used to", much like iPhone users experienced. It's indeed an issue, and not a quick or cheap thing to address.

A replacement battery is a plus in this regard.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Just ask any iPhone user - my daughter charges hers as much as 3 times a day if using it for web access. My nephew is on his 3rd iPod device based on not holding a charge.
> 
> I suspect that some time in maybe 6 months from now, we'll start hearing about the first group of cases where iPads no longer hold their charge "like they used to", much like iPhone users experienced. It's indeed an issue, and not a quick or cheap thing to address.
> 
> A replacement battery is a plus in this regard.


First iPad I bought a year ago. Turned on all the time. Charged every day. Battery life is reduced maybe about 10%. The battery issues does not apply to "any" user.


----------



## klang

If a replaceable battery is a requirement, you're not going to be buying many new toys these days. I see it as a non-issue. My wife and I replace our toys much faster then the batteries wear out.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> First iPad I bought a year ago. Turned on all the time. Charged every day. Battery life is reduced maybe about 10%. The battery issues does not apply to "any" user.


Chris - I can name at least 20 people off the top of my head that I know personally who ended up *trashing* iPods, iPhones, iTouches and other devices with internal rechargeable batteries based on their inability to hold a charge. In almost all cases (except 2), they ended up buying a new device.

These support pages on the Apple site for iPod and iTouch alone were not created because it doesn't happen often:

http://www.apple.com/support/ipod/service/battery/

http://support.apple.com/kb/ts2771

More important, the larger the device screen uses of it - the greater *potential* for the problem. We're not saying there is a mass problem today - but just the potential for it down the road is something some would likely look to avoid.


----------



## spartanstew

My Dell laptop is just about 1 year old and I need to get a new battery, because the current one won't hold a charge for more than an hour.


----------



## Rob77

spartanstew said:


> My Dell laptop is just about 1 year old and I need to get a new battery, because the current one won't hold a charge for more than an hour.


How much do you leave it pluged into AC....this is the usual cause


----------



## spartanstew

Rob77 said:


> How much do you leave it pluged into AC....this is the usual cause


Unless I'm on a plane, it's in the docking station.


----------



## AttiTech

rich584 said:


> I really don't want to start hacking tablets. I just wanna buy one that does everything that makes sense. (Starting with an easily replaceable battery.) I've learned so much over the last five years, and I don't want to start over again. I just want to enjoy my toys, not rebuild them, altho I do understand the drive some of you have to do just that, and I have the utmost respect for you.
> 
> All I ever wanted to do was chase women (don't do that anymore), drink beer (don't do that anymore), and howl at the moon after playing baseball (don't do that anymore, either). Now I'd just like to play with my toys.
> 
> And, of course, I have every intention of reading those links that lead to hacking tablets and will probably get interested and start doing it. If my head doesn't explode first......:lol:
> 
> Rich


Yeah, I want the Nook Color for ****s and giggles for sure, but I'll be purchasing a real tablet for my wife.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Chris - I can name at least 20 people off the top of my head that I know personally who ended up *trashing* iPods, iPhones, iTouches and other devices with internal rechargeable batteries based on their inability to hold a charge. In almost all cases (except 2), they ended up buying a new device.


Not exactly scientific. How did they treat their devices? Were they left a lot in heat? Did the users follow the rules laid out by Apple to extend battery life?

It's easy to say "I know 20 people" but not so easy to answer how kind they were to their devices. Most people don't pay attention to battery maintenance thus are the first to complain when the battery starts going bad after 6 months.

All I know is how I treat my devices and I don't have any issues with batteries.


----------



## AttiTech

Chris Blount said:


> Not exactly scientific. How did they treat their devices? Were they left a lot in heat? Did the users follow the rules laid out by Apple to extend battery life?
> 
> It's easy to say "I know 20 people" but not so easy to answer how kind they were to their devices. Most people don't pay attention to battery maintenance thus are the first to complain when the battery starts going bad after 6 months.
> 
> All I know is how I treat my devices and I don't have any issues with batteries.


I still have my 2G iPod Touch and the bettery life is just as good as it was when I bought it. Never had any problems, the back is just scratched from use but I've kept my screen in good condition, touch screen works great. My wife's would still be working fine if our son didn't throw it in the toilet


----------



## Rob77

spartanstew said:


> Unless I'm on a plane, it's in the docking station.


Thats why you are getting such bad battery life. Any computer pluged into AC on a constant basis = bad battery life. Use it more on batteries and see your battery life increase.


----------



## spartanstew

Rob77 said:


> Thats why you are getting such bad battery life. Any computer pluged into AC on a constant basis = bad battery life. Use it more on batteries and see your battery life increase.


I've heard that, but I've also always kept my laptops plugged in. I'm not going to reach behind the docking station and unplug it every day, just to have to plug it back in a few hours later (do people do that?).


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Not exactly scientific. How did they treat their devices? Were they left a lot in heat? Did the users follow the rules laid out by Apple to extend battery life?
> 
> It's easy to say "I know 20 people" but not so easy to answer how kind they were to their devices. Most people don't pay attention to battery maintenance thus are the first to complain when the battery starts going bad after 6 months.
> 
> All I know is how I treat my devices and I don't have any issues with batteries.


I can vouch for at least 3 of those people...and they baby their equipment, and follow the charging instructions per the user manual documentation. They are not alone...as there are many others on the web posting on this topic.

In any case, YMMV. 

All I'm saying is that having an option to address the issue is a plus - somewhat surprised it is the exception and not the rule to offer it.


----------



## AttiTech

spartanstew said:


> I've heard that, but I've also always kept my laptops plugged in. I'm not going to reach behind the docking station and unplug it every day, just to have to plug it back in a few hours later (do people do that?).


My grandmother does before slamming it shut 3/4 hours later because she's irritated at it :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> I've heard that, but I've also always kept my laptops plugged in. I'm not going to reach behind the docking station and unplug it every day, just to have to plug it back in a few hours later (do people do that?).


All that charging result depends on *which kind of battery *is in the device...

_From Batteries for Dummies:

_


> Lithium-ion: This is the type of battery you want to have in your laptop. This type is lightweight and performs better than the other types of batteries. Unlike NiCad or NiMH batteries, lithium-ion batteries don't have the dreaded "memory effect." The memory effect is the property of nickel-cadmium batteries that causes them to lose their capacity for full recharging if they are discharged repeatedly the same amount and then recharged without overcharge before they have fully drained. There's usually a rapid-charging option with lithium-ion batteries, which is good when you're in a time crunch. Finally, this type of battery is more environmentally friendly than the other types.
> 
> Two older types of batteries, once popular in portable computers, are nickel-cadmium (NiCad) and nickel-metal hydride (NiMH). The NiCad isn't often considered for laptops these days because it suffered unpleasantly from The Dreaded Memory Effect. A NiMH battery is longer lasting than a NiCad, but it too woefully suffers from The Dreaded Memory Effect.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-different-types-of-laptop-batteries.html#ixzz1K15zxuR6


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> All that charging result depends on *which kind of battery *is in the device...
> 
> _From Batteries for Dummies:
> 
> _


No one has challenged this statement. You sir, are the victor.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> No one has challenged this statement. You sir, are the victor.


Shucks...didn't even know there was a battle.

!rolling


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> I know a VP of a very large company. He uses his iPad2 every day...to answer emails. True story. And he makes a point of carrying it everywhere he goes. Must get very important emails.....:lol:


I bring mine everywhere... well, everywhere at home... well, everywhere but the bathroom... that just isn't sanitary, IMO! :nono:

I do however find that ever since some fellow posters (from the iPad thread here on DBSTalk) helped me set up my E-mail the way I wanted it, I have been using the iPad to do the bulk of my E-mail, and have been in the middle of several conversations these past few days.



rich584 said:


> Believe me, I'm willing to have my mind changed. I still haven't seen anything that interests me that I can't do on my smart-phone.


I'm not sure you're looking at things the right way?! 

Pretty much everything you can do with your smart-phone, you can do with a tablet, netbook, laptop, or desktop. The difference is HOW you use it, and the convenience of how you're able to use it. My iPad does not replace my smart-phone, nor would a smart-phone replace my iPad.

The only thing my iPad SORTA replaces... is my computer. Aside from the fact that I'm currently in the process of trying to organize my files (no small task when you have as much music as I do, and I'm trying to add comprehensive information to the files, etc.), I simply haven't used my computer. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I'll need to bring home work, but as far as personal stuff goes, the iPad has replaced my computer for my daily computing activities.



rich584 said:


> My son doesn't want a tablet. My son, who practically slept all night in front of a BB to get a WII sees no use for a tablet. My son, who has spent a fortune (of our money) on game platforms, laptops, desktops, iPods, etc. turned down the Xoom when I offered it to him before I returned it.


EVERYONE who has seen my iPad and played with it wants one. Of those people, everyone who wanted one BEFORE they played with my iPad wants one even more now... and that's just the people who have seen it. Honestly, I can't think of a single person I know who doesn't WANT one...

Apparently your son and I don't run in the same circles! 



rich584 said:


> I'm willing to listen and try to understand what advantages the tablets have and my heart is still filled with lust for one. I'm sure I'll end up with one, but I'd sure like to understand what I'm gonna do with it.


If you can't figure out what you'd do with it, I'm not sure a tablet is for you.

When the iPad first came out, I thought it was cool, but over time, I came up with a ton of ways in I would use it. After getting it, I've come up with even more ways, and I'm still learning new stuff every day.

The people I mentioned above, they're the same way. They don't have to be convinced, they are very much aware of WHY they want one... no convincing necessary.

Tablets aren't cheap, and money doesn't grow on trees. A few years down the line, you may come up with reasons to want one, and the tablets will probably be better (and perhaps cheaper) by then.

~Alan


----------



## RasputinAXP

hdtvfan0001 said:


> They forgot nothing (planned for it all along its what they do better than almost anybody). What they did is released the product 3 months too soon.
> 
> Shame on them for that.


Either way you slice it, it's still a rotten fruit. Positively ridiculous.

Also, you're mistaken w/r/t Honeycomb (Android 3.0) requiring dual core processors. Google themselves came out and said they didn't know where that rumor got started.

It runs great on the Nook Color.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> Also, you're mistaken w/r/t Honeycomb (Android 3.0) requiring dual core processors. Google themselves came out and said they didn't know *where that rumor got started*.
> 
> *It runs great on the Nook Color*.


Perhaps, but one can run Windows 7 on a legacy PC as well - but it also runs very poorly and has limitations to do many things.

*It is true* that *officially* there is no documented minumum hardware requirement to deploy the new v3.0 operating system, however, operating system history has repeatedly demonstrated that Android 3 will quickly evolve to operate much better and use the expanded capabilities of next generation hardware. Apps will follow that train.

Android 3 is specifically optimized to operate (and take advantage of the features) on the 1GHz Nvidia Tegra 2 dual-core processor with a minimum of 16 GB of internal memory, featured in virtually all the next-generation Android 3-based tablets.

K-mart tires work on a Mercedes, but you won't find many people operating their cars with them for good reason. Android 3 will be no different in that scenario.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Well yes, logically it'll goldfish to its environment. That's the nature of the beast. It'll still run on older hardware, but they're not likely to support it. That's to be expected.

And Windows 7, in my experience during the testing phase at my job, ran better than Vista on the same hardware.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> Well yes, logically it'll goldfish to its environment. That's the nature of the beast. It'll still run on older hardware, but they're not likely to support it. That's to be expected.
> 
> *And Windows 7, in my experience during the testing phase at my job, ran better than Vista on the same hardware*.


That's true but not a good comparison, as Vista was the "Edsel" of operating systems.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here's a review (with photos) that just came out of the upcoming Acer Android 3.0-based tablet:

http://androidcommunity.com/acer-iconia-tab-a500-review-20110420/


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> Interesting how you guys are really big on the battery replacement thing. It has never been an issue for me both on tablets and phones. I think over the past 13 years since I started carrying around a cell phone, I think I only replaced a battery on one of those phones.
> 
> Even though the battery may be the weakest link, it will still takes a few years for the battery to start screwing up and usually by that time it will be time upgrade to a new tablet.


I wasn't planning on upgrading to a new tablet every year. I tend to keep things if they work. But, you have a point for those who do plan to upgrade each year.

Rich


----------



## Rich

TBoneit said:


> There must be a problem when your son doesn't want one.
> 
> Can not swap battery when first one runs down = Strike one.
> No keyboard = Strike two
> Small screen = strike 2.5
> 
> One model left in contention!
> 
> Moving on to battery's being replaceable.
> Laptops have it right, need longer battery life just swap in your spare. There have been Dell models, for example, where you could pull the optical drive and plug in a second battery so you didn't even have to swap.
> 
> We serviced a lot of Ipods for bad battery life, everything else was good, just a bad battery. Easy swap would have been nice.


About my son, you hit the nail on the head with your second reason. He has no use for keyboards that take up half the screen. When I got the Droid X, he got the Droid Mobil or Two, the next one down in price because it had a slide out keyboard. At the time he told me that the keyboard on the Droid X was gonna annoy me and it does.

Rich


----------



## RasputinAXP

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's true but not a good comparison, as Vista was the "Edsel" of operating systems.


At the end, Vista was very solid and performing as well as XP was on the same hardware. They tightened up a lot of things with 7.


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> My Dell laptop is just about 1 year old and I need to get a new battery, because the current one won't hold a charge for more than an hour.


My wife and I both gave up on using just the batteries on our Lenovo laptops. We both plug them into house power when using them. I've got a 17" and she's got the more expensive model, can't remember which is which, the Thinkpad or the Ideapad, but hers has a small screen and the battery won't hold a charge long enough for her to use when she is working at home. Not a problem for us when we're home, but she travels a lot and she carries a long extension cord with her. Her company supplies her with the laptop and she's gotten a couple of new batteries, but they just don't hold up.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Rob77 said:


> How much do you leave it pluged into AC....this is the usual cause


I don't know if things have changed much regarding chargers, but there were only two types when I was working. The trickle charger, which you can leave the battery plugged into and the cascade charger which just "cascades" juice into the battery and gets it back up and running very quickly. They have to be unplugged or the batteries get destroyed. I have no idea what charging technology is used today, but if it's a trickle charger, it doesn't matter much if you leave it on a lot.

Rich


----------



## jackm

I just recently got the Samsung Galaxy Table through Verizon...and I love it - using Verizon Vcast - I have been able to download music and video's...with no problem...one question I can't seem to find out - can you put the various video's in specific folders. Any help would be appreciated and how to do that. Thanks


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> I've heard that, but I've also always kept my laptops plugged in. I'm not going to reach behind the docking station and unplug it every day, just to have to plug it back in a few hours later (do people do that?).


Again, if it uses trickle charger technology, which means it gets a small amount of juice over a long period of time, it shouldn't matter. Unless you know for sure that you have a battery that will discharge completely time after time and take a full charge time after time, I'd keep on doing what you're doing. Those full discharge batteries cost a small fortune, by the way. They are used in golf carts and forklifts. The first time I ordered a set of six for my scooter I could not believe the cost. Neither could my boss.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> At the end, *Vista was very solid and performing as well as XP* was on the same hardware. They tightened up a lot of things with 7.


I can find you 100 IT and networking folks that would strongly dispute that statement, but that adds little to this thread topic.. 


rich584 said:


> Again, if it uses trickle charger technology, which means it gets a small amount of juice over a long period of time, it shouldn't matter. Unless you know for sure that you have a battery that will discharge completely time after time and take a full charge time after time, I'd keep on doing what you're doing.


Agreed.

The new line of laptop and other mobile devices often feature new battery technology that no longer is impacted by "memory" issues....they can charge all day long.


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> I bring mine everywhere... well, everywhere at home... well, everywhere but the bathroom... that just isn't sanitary, IMO! :nono:
> 
> I do however find that ever since some fellow posters (from the iPad thread here on DBSTalk) helped me set up my E-mail the way I wanted it, I have been using the iPad to do the bulk of my E-mail, and have been in the middle of several conversations these past few days.
> 
> I'm not sure you're looking at things the right way?!
> 
> Pretty much everything you can do with your smart-phone, you can do with a tablet, netbook, laptop, or desktop. The difference is HOW you use it, and the convenience of how you're able to use it. My iPad does not replace my smart-phone, nor would a smart-phone replace my iPad.
> 
> The only thing my iPad SORTA replaces... is my computer. Aside from the fact that I'm currently in the process of trying to organize my files (no small task when you have as much music as I do, and I'm trying to add comprehensive information to the files, etc.), I simply haven't used my computer. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I'll need to bring home work, but as far as personal stuff goes, the iPad has replaced my computer for my daily computing activities.
> 
> EVERYONE who has seen my iPad and played with it wants one. Of those people, everyone who wanted one BEFORE they played with my iPad wants one even more now... and that's just the people who have seen it. Honestly, I can't think of a single person I know who doesn't WANT one...
> 
> Apparently your son and I don't run in the same circles!
> 
> If you can't figure out what you'd do with it, I'm not sure a tablet is for you.
> 
> When the iPad first came out, I thought it was cool, but over time, I came up with a ton of ways in I would use it. After getting it, I've come up with even more ways, and I'm still learning new stuff every day.
> 
> The people I mentioned above, they're the same way. They don't have to be convinced, they are very much aware of WHY they want one... no convincing necessary.
> 
> Tablets aren't cheap, and money doesn't grow on trees. A few years down the line, you may come up with reasons to want one, and the tablets will probably be better (and perhaps cheaper) by then.
> 
> ~Alan


Thanx for taking the time to write all that, Alan. You've got my feelings down pretty well. I can't imagine a tablet replacing my computers, but I can see it performing the tasks I do with my Droid in a much better way. That small screen is a PITA. And that's the biggest screen I could find in a smart phone. Perhaps if I had a job such as the one I had I would find more uses for it. (Nah, if I hadn't quit when I did, the stress would have killed me. No joke.)

But thinking about that job, I could have taken a tablet to the meetings I was forced to attend daily and it would have been a big help.

There's a huge difference in not "having" to work (as opposed to being out of work and looking for a job) and working. I get that and can see the advantages of a tablet for that scenario. But, fortunately, I don't have to work and I'm always around my computers, so that need isn't there.

That doesn't stop me from wanting one. My heart is still filled with lust and when that happens, I usually get what I want. I just want to see how this all shakes out.

I started this thread in the hopes that it would remain active for a long period of time, enough for me to form a strong opinion on which tablet to purchase. In no way do I mean to disparage the tablets.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Thanx for taking the time to write all that, Alan. You've got my feelings down pretty well. *I can't imagine a tablet replacing my computers*, but I can see it performing the tasks I do with my Droid in a much better way.


In contrast...I can't see spending the money for a tablet unless it provides new capabilities, which would include reducing the need to use a laptop during business and personal travel.

It would have to be able to do at least a respectable job of being able to interact with MS Office content. It appears than at least the Android line is going to accomplish this effectively on several fronts.

I suspect its no accident they are adding more and more horsepower, as well as connectivity to these to do much more than things people woudl do on a smartphone. It doesn't have to emulate everything I do on a laptop, but it needs to do much more than the iPad2 can do towards that kind of functionality and connects to printers and other devices. Right now, the iPad is an oversize iPhone in most regards.

In my case....without a *real* use purpose...it moves to the "optional toy" category.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In contrast...I can't see spending the money for a tablet unless it provides new capabilities, which would include reducing the need to use a laptop during business and personal travel.
> 
> It would have to be able to do at least a respectable job of being able to interact with MS Office content. It appears than at least the Android line is going to accomplish this effectively on several fronts.
> 
> I suspect its no accident they are adding more and more horsepower, as well as connectivity to these to do much more than things people woudl do on a smartphone. It doesn't have to emulate everything I do on a laptop, but it needs to do much more than the iPad2 can do towards that kind of functionality and connects to printers and other devices. Right now, the iPad is an oversize iPhone in most regards.
> 
> In my case....without a *real* use purpose...it moves to the "optional toy" category.


And I'd like that "optional toy" to be a bit cheaper, say $400 to $450, which fits the Acer tablet, I think.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> And I'd like that "optional toy" to be a bit cheaper, say $400 to $450, which fits the Acer tablet, I think.
> 
> Rich


Agree.

I don't see these as laptop replacements so much as having enough capability overlap to occasionally use them for business/personal travel.

Even at the lower price, they cost too much not to be having a purpose beyond browsing the web, reading an eBook, or some other simple purpose.

I'm glad to see the Androids getting the leapfrog horsepower, memory expansion, and more open connectivity. That can facilitate applications doing oh-so-much-more than offered on the tablet market to date. It'll also help me reach and find my wallet.


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In contrast...I can't see spending the money for a tablet unless it provides new capabilities, which would include reducing the need to use a laptop during business and personal travel.
> 
> It would have to be able to do at least a respectable job of being able to interact with MS Office content. It appears than at least the Android line is going to accomplish this effectively on several fronts.
> 
> I suspect its no accident they are adding more and more horsepower, as well as connectivity to these to do much more than things people woudl do on a smartphone. It doesn't have to emulate everything I do on a laptop, but it needs to do much more than the iPad2 can do towards that kind of functionality and connects to printers and other devices. Right now, the iPad is an oversize iPhone in most regards.
> 
> In my case....without a *real* use purpose...it moves to the "optional toy" category.


+1. That is my biggest beef with they Ipad (which I otherwise really like), you can do what you are describing via 3rd party apps (ie DocsToGo) but the entire process is cumbersome without a real file system, IMO.

I'm hoping that my tablet can easily complement my laptop so that I don't have to haul the laptop everywhere. The Ipad ca do that, but not without far too many workarounds.


----------



## trdrjeff

rich584 said:


> About my son, you hit the nail on the head with your second reason. He has no use for keyboards that take up half the screen. When I got the Droid X, he got the Droid Mobil or Two, the next one down in price because it had a slide out keyboard. At the time he told me that the keyboard on the Droid X was gonna annoy me and it does.
> 
> Rich


Are you speaking of the Swype keyboard? I love the thing (although I am using the latest beta not the stock). Amazed at how it works and how quickly I can type on it.


----------



## Shades228

AttiTech said:


> I would like to hear more on this Nook Color root. This probably wouldn't replace a tablet for me (or it might) but I like using things for something other than their intended purpose  I'm curious as to what it unlocks for you and what all you use it for.


The nook color rooted is a tablet. It's amazing actually for the cost perspective. $249 and you get a tablet that you can install gingerbread on with tablet cusomizations. At this time you cann't get HC for it but really it is amazing. I have one done and I love it. I can't decide on what I want to do for a 10" tablet. The main reason I want the 10" is to keep in the living room and use when watching tv or playing games or whatever to look stuff up.


----------



## Shades228

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In contrast...I can't see spending the money for a tablet unless it provides new capabilities, which would include reducing the need to use a laptop during business and personal travel.
> 
> It would have to be able to do at least a respectable job of being able to interact with MS Office content. It appears than at least the Android line is going to accomplish this effectively on several fronts.
> 
> I suspect its no accident they are adding more and more horsepower, as well as connectivity to these to do much more than things people woudl do on a smartphone. It doesn't have to emulate everything I do on a laptop, but it needs to do much more than the iPad2 can do towards that kind of functionality and connects to printers and other devices. Right now, the iPad is an oversize iPhone in most regards.
> 
> In my case....without a *real* use purpose...it moves to the "optional toy" category.


You buy a tablet because you want instant access to information. You have that now with other devices but a tablet is fun. It's light and easy to use. You can access the device and apps faster than using a laptop and it has a bigger screen than your phone.

A computer can do anything a tablet can and really so can your phones. The main difference is the experience while doing it.

A Ford Fiesta (good car not a knock) gets you to whever you want to drive to. That drive is different though in say a top end Mustang or Lincoln (depending on driving preferences) and the experience is really what it's all about.

If you want to know what this adds it adds fun. There are things you will start to use it for that you didn't think about as you do with anything. So what it really boils down to for me are the following items.


What outside options, hardware wise, does it have.
Price vs Performance
What OS is it running (IE what extra crap has been added on top of the native OS.
What negatives can I find about it
Price
They're fun and cool and are not made to do more than anything you have now. You just do more of it because it's more fun to do so.


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's a review (with photos) that just came out of the upcoming Acer Android 3.0-based tablet:
> 
> http://androidcommunity.com/acer-iconia-tab-a500-review-20110420/


Looks solid from a hardware perspective although my concern would be its weight.


----------



## Shades228

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Perhaps, but one can run Windows 7 on a legacy PC as well - but it also runs very poorly and has limitations to do many things.
> 
> *It is true* that *officially* there is no documented minumum hardware requirement to deploy the new v3.0 operating system, however, operating system history has repeatedly demonstrated that Android 3 will quickly evolve to operate much better and use the expanded capabilities of next generation hardware. Apps will follow that train.
> 
> Android 3 is specifically optimized to operate (and take advantage of the features) on the 1GHz Nvidia Tegra 2 dual-core processor with a minimum of 16 GB of internal memory, featured in virtually all the next-generation Android 3-based tablets.
> 
> K-mart tires work on a Mercedes, but you won't find many people operating their cars with them for good reason. Android 3 will be no different in that scenario.


Ok first off HC is becoming more optimized to operate on the Nvidia chip because more manufacturers are using it. Right now it doesn't use the dual core effectively if at all. It's coming in a new version of HC which will be patched.

I understand your concept of why it would be better but comparing it to windows is not accurate. Windows is full of crap because they want it to be compatible with crap. You can install linux on an older machine and it will have amazing performance. This is due to the kernel being compiled with only things you need. This is how android OS is done. This is why when you read about android os you hear about how custom roms are dominate. They do that because people pull even more crap out of the kernels.

This won't always be the case but I can guarantee that the Nook will run HC without issues. Will it be as fast? No because the processer in it isn't as fast, without overclocking.

I get that most people won't want to, or think they won't want to, install a custom ROM but it's a huge factor in buying options for a lot of android users. Once you really get into it I bet it will for you as well.


----------



## Rich

trdrjeff said:


> Are you speaking of the Swype keyboard? I love the thing (although I am using the latest beta not the stock). Amazed at how it works and how quickly I can type on it.


I don't know and he doesn't either. We bought our phones in December and all he was interested in was the best phone he could get with an actual keyboard that slides out from the back of the phone. Sorry.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> You buy a tablet because you want instant access to information. You have that now with other devices but a tablet is fun. It's light and easy to use. You can access the device and apps faster than using a laptop and it has a bigger screen than your phone.
> 
> A computer can do anything a tablet can and really so can your phones. The main difference is the experience while doing it.
> 
> A Ford Fiesta (good car not a knock) gets you to whever you want to drive to. That drive is different though in say a top end Mustang or Lincoln (depending on driving preferences) and the experience is really what it's all about.
> 
> If you want to know what this adds it adds fun. There are things you will start to use it for that you didn't think about as you do with anything. So what it really boils down to for me are the following items.
> 
> 
> What outside options, hardware wise, does it have.
> Price vs Performance
> What OS is it running (IE what extra crap has been added on top of the native OS.
> What negatives can I find about it
> Price
> They're fun and cool and are not made to do more than anything you have now. You just do more of it because it's more fun to do so.


That's what I'm looking for! Good post!

Rich


----------



## Rich

Here's the NY Daily News revue of the Blackberry tablet. Use this *link*. As in the other reviews, they are not at all pleased with it.

Rich


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## Rich

By the way, as long as your posts have _*anything*_ in them that pertains to tablets, don't feel as if you're hijacking this thread. Some of us are sitting on the fence deliberating which one we'll get and any and all info on them is acceptable as far as I'm concerned. I hope the Mods will agree with this.

The brief discussion we had about the batteries was very informative, to me, and in no way could be construed, in my mind, as hijacking a thread.

Rich


----------



## Shades228

raott said:


> Looks solid from a hardware perspective although my concern would be its weight.


It's mostly the battery that thing is large. However 1.5 (little more) pounds really isn't that big of a deal.


----------



## Chris Blount

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/04/20/042011-apps-gearreview-gslate-1-2/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> Looks solid from a hardware perspective although my concern would be its weight.


The form factor is equally important to the weight (how it feels in your hands).

For comparison...the different for the Acer unit to the iPad is about 47 grams (not pounds or ounces......grams). Yes that's more...but hardly that big a deal.

In exchange, you get more connectivity, HD caliber screen, memory expansion, and Android 3.0 (much faster).


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/04/20/042011-apps-gearreview-gslate-1-2/


Comparing applications at this time between Apple and Android 3.0 tablets is somewhat misleading, as Apple had a head start. The Android tablets just came out.

Let's do the same thing 9 months from now, and also compare how the two perform against each other.


----------



## trdrjeff

rich584 said:


> I don't know and he doesn't either. We bought our phones in December and all he was interested in was the best phone he could get with an actual keyboard that slides out from the back of the phone. Sorry.
> 
> Rich


If you go to settings > Language & Keyboard > Input Method > Either Multi-touch or Swype. Swype allows you to trace your finger from letter to letter without lifting your finger.

You can see video of it here: http://swypeinc.com/product.html

I also installed it on our Nookcolor, though it works better on the small form of a phone better (and in portrait mode)


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/04/20/042011-apps-gearreview-gslate-1-2/


The daily touts itself as a "tablet-native national news brand built from the ground up to publish original content exclusively for the iPad."

I'd be a skeptic of any review of an Android device from that source.


----------



## Chris Blount

raott said:


> The daily touts itself as a "tablet-native national news brand built from the ground up to publish original content exclusively for the iPad."
> 
> I'd be a skeptic of any review of an Android device from that source.


Hey, don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Hey, don't shoot the messenger.


:lol: I'd have to agree with that retort.


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> Hey, don't shoot the messenger.


Oh, I'm not. I can't disagree that one of the biggest issues right now with a google table is the lack of apps and the stability of honeycomb, I'd just look at their review with a bit of skepticism.


----------



## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Comparing applications at this time between Apple and Android 3.0 tablets is somewhat misleading,


It's also low on my list of priorities. Just about any worthwhile app is available on both (or soon will be) anyway. I don't really have a need for 1 million apps, only 15 or 20 good ones.

For example, I don't need one fart noise app, let alone several of them.


----------



## Sixto

iPad2 is in the house. Finally, all is good again, after eBay'ing the iPad1.

Woohoo!

I did learn during this effort that it's not an easy task yet to get an iPad2, after checking almost daily with the local Apple Stores, Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Radio Shack, and AT&T.

There are a few good links for others trying:Best Buy Tracker: http://obamapacman.com/2011/03/best-buy-ipad-2-inventory-availability-tracker/

Radio Shack / Target iPad2 Tracker: http://www.ipad2locator.com/

Walmart iPad2 Tracker: http://www.walmart.com/cp/Apple-iPad-2/1085165

Target Scanner: http://cristianradu.com/ipad_scanner/​The Best Buy Tracker came through!


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> Thanx for taking the time to write all that, Alan. You've got my feelings down pretty well. I can't imagine a tablet replacing my computers, but I can see it performing the tasks I do with my Droid in a much better way.


My android (Samsung Galaxy S) is used primarily for phone calls, texting, and as a handy camera. I have quite a few apps (DirecTV, Facebook, Twitter, etc.), but at that size, it's certainly not going to replace my computer...

The iPad is different though... surfing the web is FUN... E-mailing is a breeze... some of the apps (games, books, magazines, etc.) are great! Sure, some of them are available on the phones, but it's a different experience...



rich584 said:


> That doesn't stop me from wanting one. My heart is still filled with lust and when that happens, I usually get what I want. I just want to see how this all shakes out.


Lust is one of the seven deadly sins, you know?!  "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's tablet!"   

My heart rarely gets what it wants (the heart is willing, but the wallet isn't... stupid stores for requiring money in return)... but thanks to some money I made on EBay, it did manage to get an iPad 2. 

My list of "wants" is quite long... some practical, some not so practical... the iPad fits somewhere in the middle... but I didn't need to be convinced of WHY I should want one... I knew, and if I didn't know, I would have used that money for something else (which I probably should have done anyway).

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

Shades228 said:


> You buy a tablet because you want instant access to information. You have that now with other devices but a tablet is fun. It's light and easy to use. You can access the device and apps faster than using a laptop and it has a bigger screen than your phone.
> 
> A computer can do anything a tablet can and really so can your phones. The main difference is the experience while doing it.
> 
> A Ford Fiesta (good car not a knock) gets you to whever you want to drive to. That drive is different though in say a top end Mustang or Lincoln (depending on driving preferences) and the experience is really what it's all about.
> 
> If you want to know what this adds it adds fun. There are things you will start to use it for that you didn't think about as you do with anything. So what it really boils down to for me are the following items.
> 
> 
> What outside options, hardware wise, does it have.
> Price vs Performance
> What OS is it running (IE what extra crap has been added on top of the native OS.
> What negatives can I find about it
> Price
> They're fun and cool and are not made to do more than anything you have now. You just do more of it because it's more fun to do so.


WELL SAID!! 

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Shades228 said:


> *You buy a tablet because you want instant access to information*. You have that now with other devices but a tablet is fun.


That's *not at all *why I would buy a tablet.

-You can get a web browsing device for a fraction of the cost.
-A laptop can do far more.
-There are media player alternatives for much less investment.
-Convenient access to information can be had in multiple alternative ways.

I see a tablet as an alternative form factor device to existing functionality. It's more portable than some, better presentation than others, and more diversified in delivery than still others. It's those things that make a tablet a tablet.

Spending $500 for duplication or "fun" in and of itself is a waste of money to many folks.


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's *not at all *why I would buy a tablet.


Hence why you probably don't already have one...  

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

trdrjeff said:


> Are you speaking of the Swype keyboard? I love the thing (although I am using the latest beta not the stock). Amazed at how it works and how quickly I can type on it.


In regards to tablets, the Ipad is really the only one I'd even consider, but in regards to smart-phones, there ain't nothing wrong with an Android smart-phone.

I wanted an iPhone for years, and ended up with an Android smart-phone. It's a great phone, and though there are things about the iPhone that I like better, there are things about the Android phones I like better. At some point in my life, I may end up with an iPhone, but I can tell you now that Swype will be one of the things I end up missing the most...

~Alan


----------



## raott

Sixto said:


> iPad2 is in the house. Finally, all is good again, after eBay'ing the iPad1.
> 
> Woohoo!
> 
> I did learn during this effort that it's not an easy task yet to get an iPad2, after checking almost daily with the local Apple Stores, Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Radio Shack, and AT&T.
> 
> There are a few good links for others trying:Best Buy Tracker: http://obamapacman.com/2011/03/best-buy-ipad-2-inventory-availability-tracker/
> 
> Radio Shack / Target iPad2 Tracker: http://www.ipad2locator.com/
> 
> Walmart iPad2 Tracker: http://www.walmart.com/cp/Apple-iPad-2/1085165
> 
> Target Scanner: http://cristianradu.com/ipad_scanner/​The Best Buy Tracker came through!


I'd use some caution on putting too much stock in the Target tracker. It was completely inaccurate for my area - said a Target had items in stock and they hadn't had any for days, said another was out of stock but that is where I actually bought one of mine. Others on macrumors have reported the same experience - YMMV.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> Hence why you probably don't already have one...


Hence I will when we get past the pretender editions.


----------



## Shades228

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's *not at all *why I would buy a tablet.
> 
> -You can get a web browsing device for a fraction of the cost.
> -A laptop can do far more.
> -There are media player alternatives for much less investment.
> -Convenient access to information can be had in multiple alternative ways.
> 
> I see a tablet as an alternative form factor device to existing functionality. It's more portable than some, better presentation than others, and more diversified in delivery than still others. It's those things that make a tablet a tablet.
> 
> Spending $500 for duplication or "fun" in and of itself is a waste of money to many folks.


Then you do not have a reason ,ever, to get a tablet beacuse there will never be anything that a tablet can do that a laptop cannot in terms of functions. With very few exceptions, directv ipad app, because most apps out there are either games or apps that make things you do on the web more convenient.

I could counter point your points but the bottom line is tablets were made to be fun. That is what people want. Apps are fun, tech toys are fun, a tablet is the culmination of those.

I would say spending $500 to duplicate fun would be much better then spending $500 to duplicate functionality. I'd take fun any day.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Shades228 said:


> Then you do not have a reason ,ever, to get a tablet beacuse there will never be anything that a tablet can do that a laptop cannot in terms of functions.


You obviously are totally misinterpreting what I said, or else didn't read the details of my previous post. That is NOT what I outlined in detail as criteria for investing in one.

In addition, since these are still very immature devices in terms of their capabilities to date, there's plenty of room for them to grow up to be what they can be. The Android 3.0 clan just leapfrogged 2 versions of the iPad in one fell swoop alone.


----------



## Alan Gordon

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Hence I will when we get past the pretender editions.


I decided to forego waiting on the pretender editions and get an iPad 2. 

~Alan

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Alan Gordon

"raott" said:


> I'd use some caution on putting too much stock in the Target tracker. It was completely inaccurate for my area - said a Target had items in stock and they hadn't had any for days, said another was out of stock but that is where I actually bought one of mine. Others on macrumors have reported the same experience - YMMV.


Yes, I've had multiple instances over the years with Target.com (or the Android app) saying that an item was in stock at my local Target only to be told that it wasn't.

I never had that issue with Circuit City...

~Alan

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Alan Gordon

"Shades228" said:


> Then you do not have a reason ,ever, to get a tablet beacuse there will never be anything that a tablet can do that a laptop cannot in terms of functions. With very few exceptions, directv ipad app, because most apps out there are either games or apps that make things you do on the web more convenient.
> 
> I could counter point your points but the bottom line is tablets were made to be fun. That is what people want. Apps are fun, tech toys are fun, a tablet is the culmination of those.
> 
> I would say spending $500 to duplicate fun would be much better then spending $500 to duplicate functionality. I'd take fun any day.


I do think there will be a point when tablets replace laptops... but I don't believe that's really the goal of the tablet (so to speak).

I expect tablets are the next evolution of portable computers... but some of us will need to adjust our ideas of what that next evolution will be...

~Alan

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> I decided to forego waiting on the pretender editions and get an iPad 2.


I can understand that - about 1/3 of the iPad2 owners switched from the original iPad. That was indeed a step up and in the right direction on their part in terms of improvements and refinements. Now if they'd only open up the connectivity away from all that proprietary stuff and add a real HD resolution screen...Oops....maybe that's iPad3.


----------



## Shades228

hdtvfan0001 said:


> You obviously are totally misinterpreting what I said, or else didn't read the details of my previous post. That is NOT what I outlined in detail as criteria for investing in one.
> 
> In addition, since these are still very immature devices in terms of their capabilities to date, there's plenty of room for them to grow up to be what they can be. The Android 3.0 clan just leapfrogged 2 versions of the iPad in one fell swoop alone.


It's very possible today appears to not be my day on posts.

I thought you said that it would have to be difference and so forth. Sorry for misunderstanding your intent.


----------



## Sixto

Mr. Shades is right on. 

And maybe if "fun" isn't the perfect word, then maybe it's "elegant", or "productive", or "smoothly cool".

I've gone cold turkey for the past week, without the iPad1, and I really did miss it. 

Missed ...

Casually reading the local newspaper in pure graphical form.

The MLB At Bat App for checking the scores and highlights each night effortlessly.

Using Forum Runner to follow DBSTalk while lounging in the recliner, or in the yard.

Catching up on a book with the Kindle App.

Using the SiriusXM App to have some music in the background.

The DirecTV App to check the Cinema offerings.

The Google Reader App ...

Also just picked up a stylus to start playing with the note taking apps.

Could go on and on ...

Felt like I was locked to the home-office without it. Really was annoying.

Now free again ... free at last! 

Obviously everyone has different tastes and preferences, and some may not have a need in the world for a tablet, but if you're lucky enough to be able to afford one ... it's a wonderful experience ... and opens up a world of possibilities ... and no longer shackled to the laptop or PC after the workday is over ...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Shades228 said:


> It's very possible today appears to not be my day on posts.
> 
> I thought you said that it would have to be difference and so forth. Sorry for misunderstanding your intent.


No problemo sir. You're all good.

In a nutshell...tablets present the opportunity for various capabilities (new and old) on a new platform. None that I have seen, including the iPads are bad...but it comes down can they do enough for a buyer to justify the cost.

Everyone's expectations may vary, so what satisfies those expectations will too. Some of us simply think the bar needs to be higher than what we've seen in tablets so far, that's all.


Sixto said:


> Obviously everyone has different tastes and preferences, and some may not have a need in the world for a tablet, but if you're lucky enough to be able to afford one ... it's a wonderful experience ... and opens up a world of possibilities ... and no longer shackled to the laptop or PC ...


Oh oh....we're singing the same song now...


----------



## tcusta00

Different thread, same topic, same people bagging on technologies that they didn't adopt. Business as usual.


----------



## Alan Gordon

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I can understand that - about 1/3 of the iPad2 owners switched from the original iPad. That was indeed a step up and in the right direction on their part in terms of improvements and refinements. Now if they'd only open up the connectivity away from all that proprietary stuff and add a real HD resolution screen...Oops....maybe that's iPad3.


I didn't switch from the original iPad... I waited for the iPad 2 to come out.

An HD resolution screen would be nice, but it matters little to me...

I don't have any issues with the proprietary stuff either...

Do I have criticisms? Yes! Hardware (camera quality) and some software choices.

That being said, I still have yet to be impressed by any of the Android tablets (or any currently announced). I'm not a Apple snob... I enjoy my Android phone, but to me it's going to be a while (if ever) for their tablet competitors...

~Alan

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Shades228

Honeycombe with encryption should be a game changer for IT environments. It will allow corporations to have the security they need to be used in a work place. If they come out with an exchange client I think they could really get ahead of the game.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The Android 3.0 clan just leapfrogged 2 versions of the iPad in one fell swoop alone.


That is purely a matter of what you are looking for in a tablet.

This is an interesting quote from Apple's financial conference call which I believe is the big reason for the rise of the iPad:

'The Comscore data released yesterday reported the iOS platform outreaches the Android in the U.S. We launched the iPad 2, sold every one we make. We are gaining traction in enterprise. Largest App store. We feel very good about where we are, and our future product plans. We continue to believe that iPhone's integrated approach is materially better than Android's fragmented approach. The user appreciates that Apple takes full responsibility for the experience. Few customers want to be a system's integrator.'


----------



## Groundhog45

And if you're worried about having enough removable storage on your tablet, here's an SD card from Lexar that holds 128GB. At a bargain price. :lol:


----------



## phrelin

Chris Blount said:


> That is purely a matter of what you are looking for in a tablet.
> 
> This is an interesting quote from Apple's financial conference call which I believe is the big reason for the rise of the iPad:
> 
> 'The Comscore data released yesterday reported the iOS platform outreaches the Android in the U.S. We launched the iPad 2, sold every one we make. We are gaining traction in enterprise. Largest App store. We feel very good about where we are, and our future product plans. We continue to believe that iPhone's integrated approach is materially better than Android's fragmented approach. The user appreciates that Apple takes full responsibility for the experience. Few customers want to be a system's integrator.'


Do I agree with you!

Maybe if I was young and didn't have many options like it was with computers for me in the early '80's, I'd look on it as a challenge. But as someone who moved on from programming and systems ASAP, I just don't see a tablet and a phone as something with an OS and unintegrated software I'd want to spend a great deal of time on.

Other than having to cope with a few settings, I just want to use my iPad. We just bought a car, and the stupid thing has to be "personalized" through a computer system. I read the manual and know I've got at least an hour and probably more.

I know I'm old, but sometimes things should just work off the shelf.

Oh well, people will soon have jobs helping business folks integrate all their new stuff.


----------



## raott

phrelin said:


> Do I agree with you!
> 
> Maybe if I was young and didn't have many options like it was with computers for me in the early '80's, I'd look on it as a challenge. But as someone who moved on from programming and systems ASAP, I just don't see a tablet and a phone as something with an OS and unintegrated software I'd want to spend a great deal of time on.
> 
> Other than having to cope with a few settings, I just want to use my iPad. We just bought a car, and the stupid thing has to be "personalized" through a computer system. I read the manual and know I've got at least an hour and probably more.
> 
> I know I'm old, but sometimes things should just work off the shelf.
> 
> Oh well, people will soon have jobs helping business folks integrate all their new stuff.


Does ios 4 run on the original iphone? The original IPad didn't have a camera, cannot use facetime for video chat, also fragmentation. Android fragmentation is totally overblown IMO and fragmentation isn't relegated to Android as much as Apple would like people to believe. I've had no problems with a good seemless experience on my Android phone, however, the Xoom, not so much. However I believe that will improve dramatically in time as will the number of Apps.


----------



## Rich

trdrjeff said:


> If you go to settings > Language & Keyboard > Input Method > Either Multi-touch or Swype. Swype allows you to trace your finger from letter to letter without lifting your finger.
> 
> You can see video of it here: http://swypeinc.com/product.html
> 
> I also installed it on our Nookcolor, though it works better on the small form of a phone better (and in portrait mode)


OK, I see how to get to it now. I've been using SwiftKey and I'm used to it. It's really intuitive, it learned Piscataway in a couple days, and that cuts down on the time I spend typing. But, I'll give Swype a try. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Groundhog45 said:


> And if you're worried about having enough removable storage on your tablet, here's an SD card from Lexar that holds 128GB. At a bargain price. :lol:


I just bought a great 64GB SD card for $40 - using in my new camera. That would do the trick on a tablet.

Anyone looking to view video content is going to need alot of storage space, so it seems prudent to have it as an option if that's one use of the device.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That's *not at all *why I would buy a tablet.
> 
> -You can get a web browsing device for a fraction of the cost.
> -A laptop can do far more.
> -There are media player alternatives for much less investment.
> -Convenient access to information can be had in multiple alternative ways.
> 
> I see a tablet as an alternative form factor device to existing functionality. It's more portable than some, better presentation than others, and more diversified in delivery than still others. It's those things that make a tablet a tablet.
> 
> *Spending $500 for duplication or "fun" in and of itself is a waste of money to many folks.*


That's so very true. There were so many times that $500 would have been a real life saver for me. Makes me wonder if the economy is really as bad as we're told it is.

We're told that the economy is in real trouble and yet people line up at Apple Stores in the middle of the night to pay upwards of a thousand dollars for an iPad? A lot of people must have a lot of money socked away somewhere.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> In regards to tablets, the Ipad is really the only one I'd even consider, but in regards to smart-phones, there ain't nothing wrong with an Android smart-phone.
> 
> I wanted an iPhone for years, and ended up with an Android smart-phone. It's a great phone, and though there are things about the iPhone that I like better, there are things about the Android phones I like better. At some point in my life, I may end up with an iPhone, but I can tell you now that Swype will be one of the things I end up missing the most...
> 
> ~Alan


My wife's got an iPhone and she thinks it's handy for work (the company she works for gave it to her) but I've used it and I kinda prefer the Droid I've got. The iPhone is easier to use at first, I had no problems using it right off the bat, but she does have problems with my Droid. As I did at first, but my son's been a huge help with that. Kinda like having all those IT folks just a phone call away again.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That's so very true. There were so many times that $500 would have been a real life saver for me. Makes me wonder if the economy is really as bad as we're told it is.
> 
> We're told that the economy is in real trouble and yet people line up at Apple Stores in the middle of the night to pay upward of a thousand dollars for an iPad? A lot of people must have a lot of money socked away somewhere.
> 
> Rich


I'm all in favor of anyone who can buy something to buy it...it makes the world (and our economy) go around. 

Then again...with this specific kind of purchase for something that may NOT necessarily fill any urgent/important/replacement gap or have a pre-defined "necessary purpose", it would seem prudent to:

1) Do one's homework on capabilities that serve a real purpose
2) Think through the value of various tasks (long term) it could bring
3) Consider the return on the investment (what will it really be able to do that can't be done now, and is that worth the price tag?)

It's too pricey to be an impulse purchase, yet it seems plenty of folks buy these first, and figure out what they're going to actually do with them later to justify the spend. I suspect the majority of people don't have the disposable income to take that approach.

That stat about 1/3 of iPad2s being sold to iPad owners really makes me wonder how many of those people bought iPad1s purely on impulse - fad buyers.

Therefore, the bottom line - do your homework, figure out what you want/need it to do, and assess if that's worth the money. You likely need to get your decision right the first time.

I'm making a tablet purchase before year-end, but will know what I'll do with the device specifically before I reach for my wallet.


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> Then you do not have a reason ,ever, to get a tablet beacuse there will never be anything that a tablet can do that a laptop cannot in terms of functions. With very few exceptions, directv ipad app, because most apps out there are either games or apps that make things you do on the web more convenient.
> 
> I could counter point your points but the bottom line is tablets were made to be fun. That is what people want. Apps are fun, tech toys are fun, a tablet is the culmination of those.
> 
> *I would say spending $500 to duplicate fun would be much better then spending $500 to duplicate functionality. I'd take fun any day.*


A rational argument to counter a rational argument. And $500 isn't really much money these days. For fun. I'd rather spend it on a tablet than a night on the town in NYC. I'd rather spend it on a tablet than a day at Yankee Stadium getting my ears blown out (seriously, if you're gonna go to Yankee Stadium, get industrial ear plugs and bring your credit card!).

_*Now*_ you've got me thinking.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> A rational argument to counter a rational argument.


The flaw is that "rational" counter point of view is that it fails to properly consider it may be a duplicate capability, but it is delivered in an entirely different platform. So in fact, its not really "duplication", as opposed to replicaton on another platform - therefore a valid case was not really made by the other poster.

Part II - the upfront cost of buying one of these (alone) is just the beginning...then there's the services, the cases, the apps, the add-on devices...and so on.

Perhaps a further simplification:

Ask yourself:

Why am I buying it?
What do I expect it will do that I can't do now, or that it will do better?
Is this more important than another spend?

Those seem to fit almost any purchase decision, and help folks avoid costly impulse purchases they regret later.


----------



## Chris Blount

raott said:


> Does ios 4 run on the original iphone? Android fragmentation is totally overblown IMO. I've had no problems with a good seemless experience on my Android phone, however, the Xoom, not so much. However I believe that will improve dramatically in time as will the number of Apps.


That may be true but what Apple is pointing out is that if something is wrong with the device or the software, they are the ones to blame. No finger pointing. As Android gets larger, they will have the same problems that Microsoft does with too many hands in the pot.

I like to tinker just like the next guy, but as time goes on I'm finding a whole system approach is more to my liking. Time is precious and some don't like to waist hours trying to figure out why their tablet won't run an app.

I find it funny when I go into the Apple store. I see a lot of older folks with disposable incomes buying iMac's, Macbooks and iPads. They want a solid support system to go with their purchase rather than buying something at Costco and hoping for the best.

This is the reality of why Apple is doing so well. People hate them for various reasons but they do provide a service to people who are willing to pay for it. I personnally like the fact that if something goes wrong with my iPad 2, I can get it replaced or fixed quickly. Even if I need just some simple help with the OS, a Apple employee will sit down with me a run through the processes. Try to get that sort of service at Costco.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that some are looking for a tablet with lots of options (like USB, SD Card slot, etc). Nothing wrong with that. Others however are looking for a solid and refined product with a good support system behind it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> That may be true but what Apple is pointing out is that if something is wrong with the device or the software, they are the ones to blame. No finger pointing. *As Android gets larger, they will have the same problems that Microsoft does with too many hands in the pot*.


Chris - that remains to be seen, as Google is keeping very tight reins on Android 3, unlike the "go nuts and develop apps" approach Apple took. Yet as you correctly point out, it is a possibility (among others).

Google has specific and strict standards for application certification - its called striving for quality control.

No doubt that Apple does a superb job of marketing (which results in strong brand loyalty). But I contend that paying a premium price for what history has proven is not always a premium product only makes Apple a long-term financial winner, not all of their customers.

Android will force Apple to start to think about the value in their products, now that they will have legitimate competition in the tablet market. That will likely influence iPad3. We've already seen that impact as the iPhone has lost its leadership position and luster to Android smart phones.


----------



## Sixto

IMHO, for the generic public, one of the reasons for the iPad's success, and iOS in general, is it's ease-of-use and tightly controlled app ecosystem. Many may find that it provides a level of confidence, as to enable a possible long-term investment in a platform. $500+ may be a huge purchase for many in this economy, and it seems that they're selecting the platform that they have the most confidence in, with very little risk.

Many may feel that for such a significant investment that they'd select the platform with the highest probability of app selection. It seems that after spending $500+, it would be very disappointing to find out that a high interest area is lacking an app, one example being the DirecTV app (that may be solved eventually), but there are many other examples. I've found that they're always an iOS app for my personal needs even when very unique and specific, but several times there's no other non-iOS option.

And then there's the flip side, there are those here at DBSTalk that tend to be very intense in their technology selection, which is great for us die-hards, but it's not always reflective of the mass market.

Choice is good, a tight mature ecosystem for the mass market, but also other options for those that want to focus on specific technology needs.


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> That may be true but what Apple is pointing out is that if something is wrong with the device or the software, they are the ones to blame. No finger pointing. As Android gets larger, they will have the same problems that Microsoft does with too many hands in the pot.
> ............


Yes, some are looking for a solid refined product with good support system......in the last month I've purchased a macbook pro and two Ipad 2's.

My only point was the argument that Android will fail because of fragmentation (understand that is not what you said but it is a common theme on some mac sites) is overblown and I think Apple is also guilty of some fragmentation (ableit not as bad as Android).

I think once Honeycomb gets its legs under it, it is going to be a great OS and will push Apple to better ios and move away from being a recreational device only (with workarounds for productivity) to a productivity device as well.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The flaw is that "rational" counter point of view is that it fails to properly consider it may be a duplicate capability, but it is delivered in an entirely different platform. So in fact, its not really "duplication", as opposed to replicaton on another platform - therefore a valid case was not really made by the other poster.
> 
> Part II - the upfront cost of buying one of these (alone) is just the beginning...then there's the services, the cases, the apps, the add-on devices...and so on.
> 
> Perhaps a further simplification:
> 
> Ask yourself:
> 
> Why am I buying it?
> What do I expect it will do that I can't do now, or that it will do better?
> Is this more important than another spend?
> 
> Those seem to fit almost any purchase decision, and help folks avoid costly impulse purchases they regret later.


Yeah, I get all that, but money's not the problem for me. I'm searching for a reason to get one and *FUN* might well be the reason.......:lol:

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> IMHO, for the generic public, one of the reasons for the iPad's success, and iOS in general, is it's ease-of-use and tightly controlled app ecosystem.


I suspect most purchases are *really* based on Apple's marketing - they do marketing better than most other large companies, and they've been doing it for ages.


> Many may feel that for such a significant investment that they'd select the platform with the highest probability of app selection.


 Not the highest, but maybe the best. But this seems in conflict with the actual process followed....instead of determining what apps serve a purpose for buyers, they buy the tablet first, and then hunt for apps.

If I had a penny for every iPad user I've met who told me "I've got an iPad and now I'm going to go out and find apps that I might use", I could afford a truckload of them myself.

My favorite question to ask tablet users is *"What do you actually do with yours?"* The responses range from the focused to the funny (which is the largest category - answers like "I'm not sure yet").


> Choice is good, a tight mature ecosystem for the mass market, but also other options for those that want to focus on specific technology needs.


Totally agree.


rich584 said:


> Yeah, I get all that, but money's not the problem for me. I'm searching for a reason to get one and *FUN* might well be the reason.......:lol:
> 
> Rich


:lol: That's cool - but hopefully it's not the *only* reason.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> No doubt that Apple does a superb job of marketing (which results in strong brand loyalty). But I contend that paying a premium price for what history has proven is not always a premium product only makes Apple a long-term financial winner, not all of their customers.


An their lies the difference in our opinions. It sounds like you consider a premium product as something that is versatile with lots of options. My idea of a premium product is something that is built well, functions well and is supported well. Abundance of features is not necessarily a goal (at least for me).


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> An their lies the difference in our opinions. It sounds like you consider a premium product as something that is versatile with lots of options. My idea of a premium product is *something that is built well, functions well and is supported well*. *Abundance of features *is not necessarily a goal (at least for me).


I guess we do differ on that then....as to me...all of the highlighted items are inseparable to define a wise purchase. They can also both be accomplished in most cases.

Choices are good - and one size will not fit all.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect most purchases are *really* based on Apple's marketing - they do marketing better than most other large companies, and they've been doing it for ages.
> Not the highest, but maybe the best. But this seems in conflict with the actual process followed....instead of determining what apps serve a purpose for buyers, they buy the tablet first, and then hunt for apps.
> 
> If I had a penny for every iPad user I've met who told me "I've got an iPad and now I'm going to go out and find apps that I might use", I could afford a truckload of them myself.
> 
> My favorite question to ask tablet users is *"What do you actually do with yours?"* The responses range from the focused to the funny (which is the largest category - answers like "I'm not sure yet").
> 
> Totally agree.
> 
> :lol: That's cool - but hopefully it's not the *only* reason.


My heart must be filled with lust for some reason.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Sixto

Hey HDTV, man we disagree. 

Yes, exactly, you said it perfectly, most people don't need to worry about finding the app before investing in an iOS device, because if there's an app in existence on the planet earth then it's probably available for iOS first. 

And as for "marketing", man, I just couldn't disagree more. Yes, Apple does a great job at marketing, but OMG, they are leading the market, they developed the concepts, they deserve every penny they make, they were visionaries. It seems like this is fact, I'm not dreaming this stuff up.

The iPod defined a new market, a new mass market approach to music.

The iPhone defined a new market, a new mass market approach with apps for the cellular world.

The iPad defined a new market, a new mass market approach to the possible post-PC era.

Honestly, candidly, it seems like the others are trying to use "marketing" to just get in the game, and using techie features to win some market share. Good for them, they need to try something, whether it's the "open" phrase, or "security", they need to try something.

Survival of the fittest baby ... if the iOS devices didn't provide real "value" then they would not be flying off the shelves.

Anyone who thinks that it's only about marketing is nuts, IMHO. 

But I still love ya man, but boy-o-boy, do we disagree.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*Several news items on Android 3 tablets:*

1) *INTEL* seems to be getting very interested in joining the Android 3 market space:

http://www.9computerstore.com/2011/04/21/intel-on-android-version-3-0-honeycomb-tablets

2) *T-Mobile* is entering the Android 3 mix with 2 offerings:

http://en.akihabaranews.com/91962/phones/two-new-high-end-lg-android-devices-hit-t-mobile-2

3) *Toshiba's new Android tablet* appears pinned down for a June release, and one added surprise - not only will it offer a replaceable battery, but now also an extended-life battery as well:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/225680/toshiba_to_introduce_android_tablet_in_june.html


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Several news items on Android 3 tablets:*
> 
> 1) *INTEL* seems to be getting very interested in joining the Android 3 market space:
> 
> http://www.9computerstore.com/2011/04/21/intel-on-android-version-3-0-honeycomb-tablets
> 
> 2) *T-Mobile* is entering the Android 3 mix with 2 offerings:
> 
> http://en.akihabaranews.com/91962/phones/two-new-high-end-lg-android-devices-hit-t-mobile-2
> 
> 3) *Toshiba's new Android tablet* appears pinned down for a June release, and one added surprise - not only will it offer a replaceable battery, but now also an extended-life battery as well:
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/225680/toshiba_to_introduce_android_tablet_in_june.html


As I said, lots of hands in the pot.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Most importantly, I'm typing this on a bluetooth keyboard attached to my Xoom. And it's awesome.

Once I get the go-ahead to never give this back to anyone else I'll be putting the custom kernel that allows the SD slot to be used. Because when an Android device is involved, hacking follows and leads to improvement. WHEE!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> And as for "marketing", man, I just couldn't disagree more. Yes, Apple does a great job at marketing, but OMG, they are leading the market, they developed the concepts, they deserve every penny they make, they were visionaries. It seems like this is fact, I'm not dreaming this stuff up.


Then there's the Paul Harvey "rest of the story"...

They are leading the tablet market because they were first with the 10" platform. Being first does not always equate to being the best.

Sometimes Apple creates...markets the daylights out of it....then others counter with alternatives (sometimes better)...then at times Apple loses its leadership.

iPhone is the best example.

Make no mistake...Apple is an innovator. The are also a superior marketer to most. But they are historically control freaks with their technology, and that results in limitations that others can and do exploit through less expensive and sometimes more worthwhile competitive offerings.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> Most importantly, I'm typing this on a bluetooth keyboard attached to my Xoom. And it's awesome.
> 
> Once I get the go-ahead to never give this back to anyone else I'll be putting the custom kernel that allows the SD slot to be used.


Very Cool!


----------



## AttiTech

RasputinAXP said:


> Most importantly, I'm typing this on a bluetooth keyboard attached to my Xoom. And it's awesome.
> 
> Once I get the go-ahead to never give this back to anyone else I'll be putting the custom kernel that allows the SD slot to be used. Because when an Android device is involved, hacking follows and leads to improvement. WHEE!


Allows the SD slot to be used? It isn't useable right out of the box?


----------



## bobukcat

AttiTech said:


> Allows the SD slot to be used? It isn't useable right out of the box?


No, the SD card slot on the Xoom "will be enabled through a future s/w upgrade". No word yet on when that will happen.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> No, the SD card slot on the Xoom "will be enabled through *future* a s/w upgrade". No word yet on when that will happen.


It's already available...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978013


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's already available...
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978013


That seems kind of moronic to release a product, with the slot readily available, but it's only there for looks right now.


----------



## bobukcat

Sixto said:


> Hey HDTV, man we disagree.
> 
> Yes, exactly, you said it perfectly, most people don't need to worry about finding the app before investing in an iOS device, because if there's an app in existence on the planet earth then it's probably available for iOS first.


Unless it's an application that Apple decides you shouldn't have....


----------



## trdrjeff

There's been useless USB ports on DTV receivers for years


----------



## AttiTech

trdrjeff said:


> There's been useless USB ports on DTV receivers for years


:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's already available...
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978013


Only if your root your Xoom tablet, the supported Kernel is not yet released, that's what I meant.

I plan to root mine but not until after I get it upgraded to LTE by Moto, I don't want to risk them denying the upgrade because it has been rooted and there are less reasons for me to root the Xoom than my Droid phone.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> Unless it's an application that Apple decides you shouldn't have....


That's part of the Apple resentment factor some elude to...

*On another front:*

Here's an interesting Android 3 entry (with keyboard available)....looks like Best Buy, Staples, and others will have this one in short order...

http://liliputing.com/2011/04/asus-eee-pad-transformer-to-launch-april-26th-for-399-and-up.html


----------



## trdrjeff

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *On another front:*
> 
> Here's an interesting Android 3 entry (with keyboard available)....looks like Best Buy, Staples, and others will have this one in short order...
> 
> http://liliputing.com/2011/04/asus-eee-pad-transformer-to-launch-april-26th-for-399-and-up.html


yeah I was just reading about this on Android Central. Looks interesting, I think there will be a lot of choices and probably a good price war by the holidays :grin:


----------



## SeaBeagle

"raott" said:


> Does ios 4 run on the original iphone? The original IPad didn't have a camera, cannot use facetime for video chat, also fragmentation. Android fragmentation is totally overblown IMO and fragmentation isn't relegated to Android as much as Apple would like people to believe. I've had no problems with a good seemless experience on my Android phone, however, the Xoom, not so much. However I believe that will improve dramatically in time as will the number of Apps.


No the highest numbered operating system for the original IPhone is 3.1.3. I know because I have one. I wish the 4.? Operating system would work on the original IPhone.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

trdrjeff said:


> yeah I was just reading about this on Android Central. Looks interesting, I think there will be a lot of choices and probably a good price war by the holidays :grin:


*Here is a 2-part video demo of the Asus Android 3 tablet being released next week.

Pretty cool stuff:*


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Here is a 2-part video demo of the Asus Android 3 tablet being released next week.
> 
> Pretty cool stuff:*


I like this, and I've never been a huge ASUS fan...the plastic that androidcentral was talking about doesn't seem to be so bad. Then again, I can't jump the gun since I have till atleast September 20th to purchase one.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> I like this, and I've never been a huge ASUS fan...the plastic that androidcentral was talking about doesn't seem to be so bad. Then again, I can't jump the gun since I have till atleast September 20th to purchase one.


Yup - they reference the back of the case being made of hard plastic as the only downside (but not a show-stopper).

Other than that, however, it seems to blow the socks of anything iPad has to offer at roughly 1/2 the price. I'm sure some folks will get it.

I also like the Toshiba tablet....but like you...keeping my eyes and ears open.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup - they reference the back of the case being made of hard plastic as the only downside (but not a show-stopper).
> 
> Other than that, however, it seems to blow the socks of anything iPad has to offer at roughly 1/2 the price. I'm sure some folks will get it.
> 
> I also like the Toshiba tablet....but like you...keeping my eyes and ears open.


It's difficult not to make a hasty decision when I have the $700 in my "fun money" account and I know what it's going to be used for. :lol: I've never been too good with waiting when I had the money and it was new, shiny and probably not something I needed but felt cool to have. This gift being for my wife, I have to think a little more practically and look at her needs. I know I want to buy her the tablet, a gel case, largest sd card it's capable of holding and maybe a docking station. This built in keyboard is possibly a major selling point for me, I know she doesn't like typing ALOT on touchscreens.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> It's difficult not to make a hasty decision when I have the $700 in my "fun money" account and I know what it's going to be used for. :lol: I've never been too good with waiting when I had the money and it was new, shiny and probably not something I needed but felt cool to have. This gift being for my wife, I have to think a little more practically and look at her needs. I know I want to buy her the tablet, a gel case, largest sd card it's capable of holding and maybe a docking station. *This built in keyboard is possibly a major selling point for me, I know she doesn't like typing ALOT on touchscreens*.


Think of the cost of all the wiping pads you'll save with a keyboard at least some of the time....:lol:

I've been in meetings where I've seen people wipe their tablets more than use them - no kidding. Wouldn't be surprised if I joined in on that bad habit...


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Think of the cost of all the wiping pads you'll save with a keyboard at least some of the time....:lol:
> 
> I've been in meetings where I've seen people wipe their tablets more than use them - no kidding. Wouldn't be surprised if I joined in on that bad habit...


I probably would :lol: When I purchased my first touchscreen device (iPodTouch) I cleaned it constantly, everytime I used it. I still do it with my Android Comet and I have a feeling I'll end up doing it on the tablet as well. This ASUS though, it's a MAJOR step to see what people will come up with to combat it in the coming months.


----------



## Groundhog45

AttiTech said:


> That seems kind of moronic to release a product, with the slot readily available, but it's only there for looks right now.


Almost as bad as releasing a DVR with OTA tuners installed but not activated. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> That seems kind of moronic to release a product, with the slot readily available, but it's only there for looks right now.


Agree...it appears to be unique to the Xoom.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup - they reference the back of the case being made of hard plastic as the only downside (but not a show-stopper).
> 
> Other than that, however, it seems to blow the socks of anything iPad has to offer at roughly 1/2 the price. I'm sure some folks will get it.
> 
> I also like the Toshiba tablet....but like you...keeping my eyes and ears open.


This is great! I'm sure glad I waited. Capitalism in action!

Rich


----------



## spartanstew

The all have the ability to watch porn, right?


----------



## Shades228

You know the keyboard is actually a turn off for me to a degree. I feel that once I'm docked down I would rather have the true power of a laptop. The Acer and Toshiba ones are the ones I'm really checking out.

Mr Fan I hope you get something that makes you happy but I have to go with Sixto on this we're in different worlds when it comes to reasons to buy one of these.

As to the Apple vs. Android I would say this. No one beats Apple's innovation right now, but it's not hard to beat their execution. I'm glad there are products for everyone to enjoy.


----------



## Shades228

spartanstew said:


> The all have the ability to watch porn, right?


Android has flash IOS doesn't. So if you're looking at that as a factor flash could play an important decision.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Shades228 said:


> Android has flash IOS doesn't. So if you're looking at that as a factor flash could play an important decision.


Flash support is something that should be in any base tablet OS IMHO.


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Flash support is something that should be in any base tablet OS IMHO.


At the very least, the option given to the user whether to install it or not. Google has this one right, IMO.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon said:


> That being said, I still have yet to be impressed by any of the Android tablets (or any currently announced). I'm not a Apple snob... I enjoy my Android phone, but to me it's going to be a while (if ever) for their tablet competitors...


I realized last night during a conversation that the above may have come off wrong...

I think the Android operating system is a WONDERFUL operating system, and I'm thrilled that Google is out there offering choices and options... giving Apple a potential (and most likely) run for their money.

I have no doubt that the Android tablets are good, and I'm sure they will continue to improve... but to me, the iPad is where it's at, and I'm just not sure if the Android tablets will ever measure up to it in my eyes. We'll see...

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> At the very least, the option given to the user whether to install it or not. Google has this one right, IMO.


Agree....and with someone on the web alot...its a "must-have" IMHO.


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> My wife's got an iPhone and she thinks it's handy for work (the company she works for gave it to her) but I've used it and I kinda prefer the Droid I've got. The iPhone is easier to use at first, I had no problems using it right off the bat, but she does have problems with my Droid. As I did at first, but my son's been a huge help with that. Kinda like having all those IT folks just a phone call away again.


Yeah... whenever anyone I know needs IT help, they call me or my Mom. Must be great getting free help... 

As for the phone argument, I can see both sides. If someone says they like the iPhone better, and I can understand it... if someone says they like the Android phones better, I can understand it too.

Each one has their plusses and minuses...

~Alan


----------



## Chris Blount

I'm not quite sure why the Flash issue keeps coming up. The iPad will do Flash via a downloadable app. Sure, its not built into the OS but the fact is that it can be done on the iPad.


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> You know the keyboard is actually a turn off for me to a degree. I feel that once I'm docked down I would rather have the true power of a laptop. The Acer and Toshiba ones are the ones I'm really checking out.
> 
> Mr Fan I hope you get something that makes you happy but I have to go with Sixto on this we're in different worlds when it comes to reasons to buy one of these.
> 
> As to the Apple vs. Android I would say this. *No one beats Apple's innovation right now*, but it's not hard to beat their execution. I'm glad there are products for everyone to enjoy.


Google? How can you beat them for innovation? Look what they've accomplished in a comparatively short time, compared to Apple. I got my first Mac in the 80's, and they've pretty much followed the same path since.

If I was the owner of a business and saw Google eyeballing me, I'd be kinda worried.

Suppose Google itself came out with a pure Google-Android tablet? Damn, this is interesting.

Rich


----------



## Groundhog45

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Flesh support is something that should be in any base tablet OS IMHO.


There, fixed it for you.


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> Yeah... whenever anyone I know needs IT help, they call me or my Mom. Must be great getting free help...


It is. And it's so simple to ask for help rather than struggling with the thing.



> As for the phone argument, I can see both sides. If someone says they like the iPhone better, and I can understand it... if someone says they like the Android phones better, I can understand it too.
> 
> Each one has their plusses and minuses...


My wife uses AT&T for her carrier and I use Verizon. She has problems with reception and I have none. That might be part of it. I think the Droid X is a great phone, when used strictly as a phone. Best cell phone I've ever had. Throw in the "smart" stuff and it's a very useful device.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Groundhog45 said:


> There, fixed it for you.


Ouch (and a pinch ).


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect most purchases are *really* based on Apple's marketing - they do marketing better than most other large companies, and they've been doing it for ages.


I can't speak for everyone, but I did my homework... 



 hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not the highest, but maybe the best. But this seems in conflict with the actual process followed....instead of determining what apps serve a purpose for buyers, they buy the tablet first, and then hunt for apps.
> 
> If I had a penny for every iPad user I've met who told me "I've got an iPad and now I'm going to go out and find apps that I might use", I could afford a truckload of them myself.


When I got my smart-phone, I knew there were apps I wanted. Apps like DBSTalk, DirecTV, Facebook, The Weather Channel, IMDB, WALB, EBay, etc., etc., etc... however, until I got my smart-phone, I had no idea of what all was out there.

When I got my iPad, I knew there were apps I wanted. Apps like DBSTalk, DirecTV, Facebook, Twitter, The Weather Channel, iBooks, Google Books, Kindle, IMDB, Angry Birds, Netflix, Photoshop, Photobucket, Dropbox, EBay, etc., etc., etc.

HOWEVER, I'm sure there are MANY apps still out there that I'd love to have, but simply haven't discovered yet simply because when you have SO many apps to choose from, it's hard knowing what your missing. I make it a habit whenever I get the free time to do so, to explore what apps are out there, give the (free) ones that seem interesting a try, and if I don't like them, delete them.

To put it plainly, it's simply impossible to know what all you're going to want to use prior to actually getting a device capable of exploring what all is out there.

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> I can't speak for everyone, but I did my homework...
> 
> To put it plainly, it's simply impossible to know what all you're going to want to use prior to actually getting a device capable of exploring what all is out there.


I suspect those of us here doing the exploring and research in advance and in depth may not collectively represent the general population at large, in terms of the buying habits on these tablets.

No kidding - I know of someone who had bought their tablet 3 months ago and still tells me they aren't sure how they'll use it or what apps they'll want/need.


----------



## Shades228

rich584 said:


> Google? How can you beat them for innovation? Look what they've accomplished in a comparatively short time, compared to Apple. I got my first Mac in the 80's, and they've pretty much followed the same path since.
> 
> If I was the owner of a business and saw Google eyeballing me, I'd be kinda worried.
> 
> Suppose Google itself came out with a pure Google-Android tablet? Damn, this is interesting.
> 
> Rich


Google hasn't really driven the market for all of this though. They made a platform that is letting other companies take the ball and run with it. Just like MS did with windows.

Apple has it's due they created items that took the market by storm and right now it's the device to "kill". When someone says apple needs to make a XX killer. Then we know they fell behind. I won't buy an Apple product due to my wants but to say they aren't the best in innovation right now I'd have to argue.

The new tablets coming out are better than the Ipad imo. They still have to be released and then start beating the Ipad. When you see major companies start throwing apps at Honeycombe like they do the Ipad then it will happen.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Shades228 said:


> The new tablets coming out are better than the Ipad imo. They still have to be released and then start beating the Ipad. *When you see major companies start throwing apps at Honeycomb like they do the Ipad then it will happen*.


Manufacturers like Motorola, Toshiba, Acer, Hannspree, Samsung, and ASUS to just name a few are all on the Android 3.0 Honeycomb platform, and all have already created their own apps specific to their devices.

There are even rumors that Amazon will logo-brand their own Android 3 tablet and sell apps.

Intel is now looking to get on the bandwagon with a new chip to support Android 3 devices as well...so the momentum is growing and the large company vendor list is growing too.

Android 3 appears to be very real, have alot of support, and poised to launch shortly as a formidable competitor to the iOS device line.


----------



## Shades228

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Manufacturers like Motorola, Toshiba, Acer, Hannspree, Samsung, and ASUS to just name a few are all on the Android 3.0 Honeycomb platform, and all have already created their own apps specific to their devices.
> 
> There are even rumors that Amazon will logo-brand their own Android 3 tablet and sell apps.
> 
> Intel is now looking to get on the bandwagon with a new chip to support Android 3 devices as well...so the momentum is growing and the large company vendor list is growing too.
> 
> Android 3 appears to be very real, have alot of support, and poised to launch shortly as a formidable competitor to the iOS device line.


I'm well aware of what Android is doing and where they are going. I'm not disagreeing that Honeycombe and beyond will be amazing. I'm just saying that we have some ground to make up. It will be made up and shortly once we can start getting more devices on the market which drives developers profits.


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Here is a 2-part video demo of the Asus Android 3 tablet being released next week.
> 
> Pretty cool stuff:*


Of the Android tablets announced, that's my favorite. I LOVE my ASUS netbook, and I suspect their tablet will be well made as well...



Shades228 said:


> You know the keyboard is actually a turn off for me to a degree. I feel that once I'm docked down I would rather have the true power of a laptop. The Acer and Toshiba ones are the ones I'm really checking out.


Yeah... I can see the appeal of an optional wireless keyboard for those who use word processing apps and the like for work/homework, etc, but for general usage, it kind of defeats the purpose.

Sure, I can type faster and more efficiently on a desktop and laptop, but I can type faster and more efficiently on the iPad than I can my netbook.

On a side note since it's not hardware related, I LOVE Apple's software for their keyboard (corrective capabilities and all that). It's AWESOME!! 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree....and with someone on the web alot...its a "must-have" IMHO.


You know what they say about opinions and a... hem... never mind! 

Flash is HIGHLY overrated!

When I got my Android phone, one of the highlights to me was that I was going to have Flash for the first time. Ironically, it took me til today to get Froyo, and in that time, I learned how little Flash mattered. I also learned how much resources Flash hogs by seeing which sites slows down the desktops, laptops, netbooks I use.

There is only ONE (1) website with Flash I would actually like to visit on my iPad that I care anything about (WALB.com), but other than that, I don't miss it a bit, and I'm glad that it appears we are moving away from it.



rich584 said:


> My wife uses AT&T for her carrier and I use Verizon. She has problems with reception and I have none. That might be part of it. I think the Droid X is a great phone, when used strictly as a phone. Best cell phone I've ever had. Throw in the "smart" stuff and it's a very useful device.


Don't get me started on AT&T...

I probably would have preferred the Droid X to the Fascinate... but yeah, total agreement...

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect those of us here doing the exploring and research in advance and in depth may not collectively represent the general population at large, in terms of the buying habits on these tablets.


One of the few times we agree on this thread (and some others... LOL!!). 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> No kidding - I know of someone who had bought their tablet 3 months ago and still tells me they aren't sure how they'll use it or what apps they'll want/need.


Sounds like rich584 and them might get along very well! 

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> One of the few times we agree on this thread (and some others... LOL!!).


More often that you may realize. 


> Sounds like rich584 and them might get along very well!
> 
> ~Alan


OUCH...

I suspect we can all benefit from any opportunity to do pre-purchase homework and learn from it - me included.


----------



## AttiTech

rich584 said:


> Throw in the "smart" stuff and it's a very useful device.
> 
> Rich


:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> I'm not quite sure why the Flash issue keeps coming up. The iPad will do Flash via a downloadable app. Sure, its not built into the OS but the fact is that it can be done on the iPad.


See a video you like on facebook? Exit facebook, open iswifter, go back to facebook, go back to the person's page and then open video. PITA.

I know all the arguments about it being a resource hog etc. The problem is, it is still a very widely used format for video (and not just for porn) and the option to use it ought to be within safari, not have to go with some workaround.


----------



## Alan Gordon

raott said:


> See a video you like on facebook? Exit facebook, open iswifter, go back to facebook, go back to the person's page and then open video. PITA.
> 
> I've never experienced that problem...





raott said:


> I know all the arguments about it being a resource hog etc. The problem is, it is still a very widely used format for video (and not just for porn) and the option to use it ought to be within safari, not have to go with some workaround.


Maybe I just don't surf the same sites as everyone else, but there are VERY few sites where it's an issue for me...

Maybe if I went for porn, it'd be a problem...  

~Alan


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> See a video you like on facebook? Exit facebook, open iswifter, go back to facebook, go back to the person's page and then open video. PITA.
> 
> I know all the arguments about it being a resource hog etc. The problem is, it is still a very widely used format for video (and not just for porn) and the option to use it ought to be within safari, not have to go with some workaround.


I agree.

A number of sites require it, including research and information library sites...even some airline sites...forget the porn argument - totally irrelevant....its commonplace in thousands of website locations, and should be readily available on any browser device.


----------



## davring

Alan Gordon said:


> Maybe I just don't surf the same sites as everyone else, but there are VERY few sites where it's an issue for me...
> 
> ~Alan


Rarely an issue for me either; at first I did think lack of flash might be a preoblem, but I don't miss it at all.


----------



## AttiTech

I'd rather get something that came stock with Flash, just like it being stock with a working SD slot


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> I'd rather get something that came stock with Flash, just like it being stock with a working SD slot


That makes 1 million, uh....two of us.


----------



## Alan Gordon

AttiTech said:


> I'd rather get something that came stock with Flash, just like it being stock with a working SD slot


Once upon a time, I would have agreed with you. Now that I realize how little Flash means to me, I'm glad that Apple is holding the line.

As for the SD slot, it'd be nice, but at the end of the day, I'm fine without it.

~Alan


----------



## raott

"Alan Gordon" said:


> Once upon a time, I would have agreed with you. Now that I realize how little Flash means to me, I'm glad that Apple is holding the line.
> 
> As for the SD slot, it'd be nice, but at the end of the day, I'm fine without it.
> 
> ~Alan


But where is the harm in giving your customers a choice to use it or not. As far as sites that use it, almost any video I've looked at on the largest social networking site in the world are in flash format.


----------



## AttiTech

Alan Gordon said:


> Once upon a time, I would have agreed with you. Now that I realize how little Flash means to me, I'm glad that Apple is holding the line.
> 
> As for the SD slot, it'd be nice, but at the end of the day, I'm fine without it.
> 
> ~Alan


To each his own, and that's the great part about how many companies are building these tablets. They have a lot of the same Hardware, but they differ in one way or another. So far, Asus has my vote until I get to actually hold one to see if I like the weight, feel, and keyboard.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Alan Gordon said:


> Once upon a time, I would have agreed with you. Now that I realize how little Flash means to me, *I'm glad that Apple is holding the line*.


I'm not sure they are holding the line on anything...just failing to support a popular video standard on the Internet.

While some may not be impacted as much as others...it makes no sense.


----------



## Sixto

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/


Thanks for the added insights Sixto.

Having read all that, however, it's clear its all about proprietary positioning.

Apple almost never concedes their controls to anyone, and this appears to be yet another example, even if it makes market sense.

A shame...since they immediately cut themselves out of at least part of the market for those who recognize a browser without Adobe Flash support is a wounded product.


----------



## raott

"Sixto" said:


> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/


I almost fell out of my seat when I read that one of the issues he has with flash is the proprietary format. Did Jobs write that with a straight face?


----------



## AttiTech

raott said:


> I almost fell out of my seat when I read that one of the issues he has with flash is the proprietary format. Did Jobs write that with a straight face?


Like the speech about how iPhone customers were holding their phone wrong :lol:


----------



## Alan Gordon

raott said:


> But where is the harm in giving your customers a choice to use it or not. As far as sites that use it, almost any video I've looked at on the largest social networking site in the world are in flash format.


There's no harm in it...

I also don't see the harm in looking at your product, and upon seeing that a third-party's product effects it negatively, deciding to leave it out. I think Apple's reputation means a lot to them...

I got Froyo today, and though Flash is one of the biggest things about the update, I couldn't care less about it. On the plus side, there are fixes and many other things that has me excited about the update.

I saw a promotion for the Blackberry Playbook on Jimmy Kimmel the other night. In it, one of the features mentioned was that it used Flash. I personally feel that while Blackberry and Google may be talking up the Flash capabilities, the rest of the world will be leaving Flash behind... and in a few years, Flash will essentially be a thing of the past.

On a somewhat related topic, I also feel that once Windows 8 comes out, Microsoft will essentially be killing Adobe Reader (and possibly Acrobat) as well. On the plus side, Adobe has many great programs, and I feel that they will do just fine.



AttiTech said:


> To each his own, and that's the great part about how many companies are building these tablets. They have a lot of the same Hardware, but they differ in one way or another. So far, Asus has my vote until I get to actually hold one to see if I like the weight, feel, and keyboard.


Absolutely! Nothing wrong with choices (and the Asus is my favorite of the Android tablets as well)... I just think the lack of Flash isn't as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> A shame...since they immediately cut themselves out of at least part of the market for those who recognize a browser without Adobe Flash support is a wounded product.






AttiTech said:


> Like the speech about how iPhone customers were holding their phone wrong :lol:


ROTFLMAO!!

THAT WAS HILARIOUS!!

~Alan


----------



## Sixto

Busting myths about the iPad: http://blog.syracuse.com/cny/2011/01/busting_myths_about_the_ipad.html​
When Will Apple Cave And Accept Flash? Maybe When It Doesn't Suck:http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/28/apple-flash-suck/​
Mobile Flash Fail: Weak Android Player Proves Jobs Right:http://blog.laptopmag.com/mobile-flash-fail-weak-android-player-proves-jobs-right​


----------



## spartanstew

Possibly Useful


----------



## AttiTech

Alan Gordon said:


> I saw a promotion for the Blackberry Playbook on Jimmy Kimmel the other night. In it, one of the features mentioned was that it used Flash. I personally feel that while Blackberry and Google may be talking up the Flash capabilities, the rest of the world will be leaving Flash behind... and in a few years, Flash will essentially be a thing of the past.
> ~Alan


How do you figure Flash will be irrelevant in a few years? Just curious


----------



## Alan Gordon

AttiTech said:


> How do you figure Flash will be irrelevant in a few years? Just curious


To my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong), a great deal of sites have already transitioned from Flash (or created apps) in order to accomodate iPhone users. With the large number of iPad users (which I expect to only grow larger), I suspect it's only a matter of time before sites transition away from Flash in order to accomodate them.

~Alan


----------



## raott

"Sixto" said:


> Busting myths about the iPad: http://blog.syracuse.com/cny/2011/01/busting_myths_about_the_ipad.html
> 
> When Will Apple Cave And Accept Flash? Maybe When It Doesn't Suck:http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/28/apple-flash-suck/
> 
> Mobile Flash Fail: Weak Android Player Proves Jobs Right:http://blog.laptopmag.com/mobile-flash-fail-weak-android-player-proves-jobs-right


The Syracuse article is misleading at best. I can plug a thumb drive in? Really? And then when I want to read the word doc off that thumb drive, what happens.


----------



## AttiTech

Alan Gordon said:


> To my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong), a great deal of sites have already transitioned from Flash (or created apps) in order to accomodate iPhone users. With the large number of iPad users (which I expect to only grow larger), I suspect it's only a matter of time before sites transition away from Flash in order to accomodate them.
> 
> ~Alan


I had no knowledge of them transitioning anything, partly because I don't use any apple products for internet use. What are they using instead?


----------



## Alan Gordon

AttiTech said:


> I had no knowledge of them transitioning anything, partly because I don't use any apple products for internet use. What are they using instead?


Up until last month, I didn't use any Apple products (period)... well, other than iTunes (software).

Someone else might be better suited for this question. Is it HTML 5? I don't know... not really my area of expertise. 

~Alan


----------



## Laxguy

Alan Gordon said:


> To my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong), a great deal of sites have already transitioned from Flash (or created apps) in order to accomodate iPhone users. With the large number of iPad users (which I expect to only grow larger), I suspect it's only a matter of time before sites transition away from Flash in order to accomodate them.
> 
> ~Alan


You're quite right, and it wasn't just to accomodate iPhoners. Using Flash for straight videos is enormously stupid, and most the videos I've seen on Youtube on my Macs are not entombed in Flash.

There are a few websites I frequent which are Flash based, but the writing is on the wall.....


----------



## Chris Blount

Laxguy said:


> You're quite right, and it wasn't just to accomodate iPhoners. Using Flash for straight videos is enormously stupid, and most the videos I've seen on Youtube on my Macs are not entombed in Flash.
> 
> There are a few websites I frequent which are Flash based, but the writing is on the wall.....


Agree. Flash is a resource hog. It needs to go away.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Agree. Flash is a resource hog. It needs to go away.


I think that's actually a Steve Jobs quote...it would make a great Kool Aid commercial. :lol:


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> Agree. Flash is a resource hog. It needs to go away.


Chris, I agree with that. However, at this point it hasn't gone away and is still widely used - facebook for example. My point is, give the user the option whether to install it or not. That is what google did.

I've seen arguments criticizing the Honeycomb tablets because Flash is bad. The answer is simple, if you don't want it, don't install it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> Chris, I agree with that. However, at this point it hasn't gone away and is still widely used - facebook for example. My point is, give the user the option whether to install it or not. That is what google did.
> 
> I've seen arguments criticizing the Honeycomb tablets because Flash is bad. *The answer is simple, if you don't want it, don't install it*.


Yup. Agree.


----------



## raott

My wife, who works for a very large international company, is at home right now doing training via her laptop. Guess what format the training program is in. Flash isn't dead.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> My wife, who works for a very large international company, is at home right now doing training via her laptop. Guess what format the training program is in. Flash isn't dead.


Same here - a recent mandatory class was done in Flash. It's all over the place.

I've also never seen it as a resource hog...no impact seen to performance. The new Android tablets can easily handle it.


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> One of the few times we agree on this thread (and some others... LOL!!).
> 
> Sounds like rich584 and them might get along very well!
> 
> ~Alan


I was doing a difficult crossword puzzle last night and using my Droid to get some of the more obscure answers. All I could think about was, "I wish I had a tablet!" That little screen is a PITA. And I didn't want to lug the 17" laptop into the dining room, so I struggled on. The Xoom or the iPad would have been perfect for what I was doing.

You might not think that's much of a reason for spending $500, but I do.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Mikemok1981

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I've also never seen it as a resource hog...no impact seen to performance. The new Android tablets can easily handle it.


Can they? What flash sites have you gone to on one of the new tablets? My android phone (Samsung Captivate) always locks up on g4.com because of its heavy flash use.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mikemok1981 said:


> Can they? What flash sites have you gone to on one of the new tablets? My android phone (Samsung Captivate) always locks up on g4.com because of its heavy flash use.


The Android tablets have a dual core 1GHz processor...exponentially faster, more robust, more memory than your smart phone. Yes...they can handle it...its even shown in the online demos of the new generation Android 3 tablets. I also saw it at CES in January already.

The presentation of content is also superb with the new HD caliber screens.


----------



## Mikemok1981

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The Android tablets have a dual core 1GHz processor...exponentially faster, more robust, more memory than your smart phone. Yes...they can handle it...its even shown in the online demos of the new generation Android 3 tablets. I also saw it at CES in January already.
> 
> The presentation of content is also superb with the new HD caliber screens.


Well I specifically meant the current iteration of Android tablet. And a dual core 1ghz processor isnt exponentially faster than a 1ghz processor. It's still 1ghz. I mean theorectically the speed is doubled, but since their are parts of the architecture of the cpu that are shared by both cores its not quite so.

But you say you've seen flash demo'ed at CES on these tablets and there was no lock up for freezing or anything? Did you get to actually test the flash capabilities yourself?

BTW, I'm not attacking your viewpoint or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I also am in the market and if I can get the tablet experience I want without giving Steve Jobs my money then I'll be living the dream.


----------



## raott

Mikemok1981 said:


> Well I specifically meant the current iteration of Android tablet. And a dual core 1ghz processor isnt exponentially faster than a 1ghz processor. It's still 1ghz. I mean theorectically the speed is doubled, but since their are parts of the architecture of the cpu that are shared by both cores its not quite so.
> 
> But you say you've seen flash demo'ed at CES on these tablets and there was no lock up for freezing or anything? Did you get to actually test the flash capabilities yourself?
> 
> BTW, I'm not attacking your viewpoint or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I also am in the market and if I can get the tablet experience I want without giving Steve Jobs my money then I'll be living the dream.


Based on my limited experience with the Xoom (I owned one for about two days), and the sites I went to, Flash worked fine. That is not to say it will work well for heavy flash sites, I simply don't know.

My recommendation is to go to Best Buy and demo the Xoom. I think the Honeycomb tablets coming out this summer are, for the most part, based on the same cpu (see spartanstew's link above). Try out the Xoom and the flash heavy sites you would go to and see how it works. Keep in mind, the Flash for Honeycomb is still in beta.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

It's funny... I thought I would miss flash. For the most part I don't. I miss a good Java implementation more. 

I was saying the other day that iPad isn't perfect, and it isn't. There's a lot that it could do better. And I think that regardless of whether any of the other tablets get any traction in the market, they are useful to the market in general to show what is and is not really important to the mobile computing experience.


----------



## FHSPSU67

rich584 said:


> I was doing a difficult crossword puzzle last night and using my Droid to get some of the more obscure answers. All I could think about was, "I wish I had a tablet!" That little screen is a PITA. And I didn't want to lug the 17" laptop into the dining room, so I struggled on. The Xoom or the iPad would have been perfect for what I was doing.
> 
> You might not think that's much of a reason for spending $500, but I do.....:lol:
> 
> Rich


Thanks for starting this thread Rich
I, too, am in the market for a tablet (Android) and have been following from the beginning of this thread, and will wait until I'm confident of my choice. This thread has been my best source of info


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mikemok1981 said:


> Well I specifically meant the current iteration of Android tablet. And a dual core 1ghz processor isn't exponentially faster than a 1ghz processor. It's still 1ghz.


It's indeed much, much faster...as are the other corresponding components inside....there's more to the speed improvement than just the CPU speed itself. But in any case...the new Android 3 tablets use Flash without any problem. As for the 2.3-2.2 previous version...I suspect those haven't kept up with the code growth in Flash so they likely fall short. I'll try it when I see my brother next time (who has one).


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> It's funny... I thought I would miss flash. For the most part I don't [...]


Same here. The sites I thought I'd miss it on, like nyt.com, now offer up their content in both Flash and HTML5, so no worries. I think even Adobe realizes the handwriting's on the wall for Flash:

http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2011/03/flash-to-html5-conversion-tool-on-adobe-labs.html

As for Flash on Honeycomb, it's apparently not quite ready for primetime. That said, I have no doubt Adobe will get it fixed at some point:

Flash Is Finally On The Xoom -- But It's Lame

The Xoom Gets Flash. But Don't Get Too Excited

Motorola Xoom Gets Flash Support&#8230;Sort Of


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> As for Flash on Honeycomb, it's apparently not quite ready for primetime. That said, I have no doubt Adobe will get it fixed at some point:


More accurately...the Xoom device needs some work. It also doesn't yet handle SD card expansion out of the box (yet) either...its a hosed unit for perhaps another 30-60 days.

I saw Flash firsthand at CES and since on 3 different Android v3.0 Honeycomb tablets - worked perfectly.

And despite claims to the contrary...it is all over the place and should be a base offering for those who intend to browse the web.


----------



## WERA689

I just played some CNet on a WiFi Galaxy Tab...single core, 1GHz processor. It did just fine, no buffering stutters, and reasonable vid quality. Now I'm curious to see how the Xoom differs.


----------



## Steve

WERA689 said:


> I just played some CNet on a WiFi Galaxy Tab...single core, 1GHz processor. It did just fine, no buffering stutters, and reasonable vid quality. Now I'm curious to see how the Xoom differs.


Should have been OK on the Galaxy, because Android 2.x Flash has been out since last June, and was updated to 10.2 in March, which was also the _initial_ beta release for Honeycomb Flash.


----------



## Sixto

It would seem from all the resources posted that there's much to evaluate relative to Flash, including battery consumption over an extended period of time.

As with most things, there needs to be a holistic view.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Anyone who thinks flash is the future of the web, or more specifically tablets, is sadly mistaken. Flash is a 15 year old technology that is best used with a mouse... not to mention it's a resource hog. I wouldn't be sad if I never had to see it again. Either way, I browse the internet daily on my iPad, and _rarely_ run into an issue. Any website worth the visit has realized the saturation of iOS and has adapted new standards and iOS friendly sites. I don't feel limited in the least.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> As with most things, there needs to be a holistic view.





Greg Alsobrook said:


> Anyone who thinks flash is the future of the web, or more specifically tablets, is sadly mistaken.


For sure. For those that may have missed it, here's Apple's rationale for not supporting iPad Flash. Pretty sound, IMHO:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Rationale or rationalization? I say the latter.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> Rationale or rationalization? I say the latter.


You could view it that way. But I think the fact even Adobe is working on Flash conversion tools now speaks volumes. They just want to continue selling authoring tools. They don't really care what you "save as".


----------



## raott

Stuart Sweet said:


> Rationale or rationalization? I say the latter.


Exactly. As I stated before when someone else posted that piece, the fact that Jobs is using Flash being proprietary as a basis for his rationalization is laugable. He is the king of proprietary.

I'm not sure most here are arguing that Flash is the future or that Flash isn't a resource hog. My point is that Flash is still a widely used format and the option should be given whether to install it or not. Google has it right, it's there if you want it, if you don't, then don't install it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> Exactly. As I stated before when someone else posted that piece, the fact that Jobs is using Flash being proprietary as a basis for his rationalization is laugable. He is the king of proprietary.


Jobs practically invented the concept of proprietary. 


Greg Alsobrook said:


> Anyone who thinks flash is the future of the web, or more specifically tablets, is sadly mistaken.


It's also not going away anytime soon...they'll just keep improving it until something better comes along.

To me...any platform that limits access to Internet content found all over the place is a gaping hole that requires correction, not apologies or indifference.


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> Exactly. As I stated before when someone else posted that piece, the fact that Jobs is using Flash being proprietary as a basis for his rationalization is laugable.


That's just one of six reasons given. As *Sixto *rightfully pointed out, you need to take a holistic view of a technology that was originally designed for a different platform.

Much like Windows 7 isn't appropriate for tablets, neither is Flash, IMHO.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's also not going anywhere for another 15 years most likely...just improved.


I disagree. I've seen many major companies start to move away from flash, even before Apple came out against it. I think other newer standards, such as HTML5, will take its place. It's much cleaner/less bloated, faster, and is platform friendly.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> That's just one of six reasons given. As *Sixto *rightfully pointed out, you need to take a holistic view of a technology that was originally designed for a different platform.
> 
> Much like Windows 7 isn't appropriate for tablets, neither is Flash, IMHO.


The hollistic view doesn't help when I'm trying to watch a basic family video on facebook.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Jobs practically invented the concept of proprietary.


And guess what... it works. 

http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/20/ap...e-3-76m-macs-18-65m-iphones-4-69m-ipads-sold/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> I disagree. I've seen many major companies start to move away from flash, even before Apple came out against it. I think other newer standards, such as HTML5, will take its place. It's much cleaner/less bloated, faster, and is platform friendly.


I guess we see different parts of the world then.

Since I know of at least 1 huge company that just transformed over 100 internal intranet websites to feature flash, and I'm also directly familiar with numerous banking sites that feature Flash - I see almost the opposite. That makes devices without it almost a show-stopper for consideration.

I'm glad to see the numerous Android 3 tablets supporting it - I suspect there's good reason almost a dozen large tablet manufacturers deemed it a good idea.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Since I know of at least 1 huge company that just transformed over 100 internal intranet websites to feature flash


That's just ignorant.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> and I'm also directly familiar with numerous banking sites that feature Flash


Why in the world would a banking website need flash?



hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm glad to see the numerous Android 3 tablets supporting it - I suspect there's good reason almost a dozen large tablet manufacturers deemed it a good idea.


And which one of those manufacturers have sold 20 million of their tablets?


----------



## Sixto

In hindsight, especially when defining the tablet market, it may have been the perfect decision to not support Flash, for the reasons made available, since it may have helped nudge the market to more quickly transition to other better more efficient technologies.

If one was to take an objective view, it certainly seems like a good decision, especially when considering some of information in the recent articles posted.

When Will Apple Cave And Accept Flash? Maybe When It Doesn't Suck:http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/28/apple-flash-suck/​


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> That's just ignorant.


Apparently when a Fortune 500 company makes a multi-million dollar decision proven to repeatedly work for the public, its ignorant. FYI - it was very, very smart....and the surveys taken within 60 days after the transformation had an 84& approval rate by approximately 17,000 users. Who woulda thought? :lol:

As for Banks - they support multiple platforms routinely, and Flash was viewed by at least 19 of them (bigger ones) as needing Flash to present various tutorial content - a proven success to date based on thousands of customer feedback responses.


----------



## Chris Blount

raott said:


> The hollistic view doesn't help when I'm trying to watch a basic family video on facebook.


I'm not sure why you keep saying that. I watch video posted on Facebook all the time. Facebook fixed that issue a long time ago (and I'm not talking about links to YouTube or other video sources. Actual video posted directly to Facebook).


----------



## Steve

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Why in the world would a banking website need flash?


+1. Flash is so insecure, it would be irresponsible for any application that handles sensitive data to use it, IMHO.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> And which one of those manufacturers have sold 20 million of their tablets?


That same kind of logic was thrown on the wall when iPhone had the leadership position, and now they don't anymore.

Wearing blinders is not a successful corporate strategy.


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> I'm not sure why you keep saying that. I watch video posted on Facebook all the time. Facebook fixed that issue a long time ago (and I'm not talking about links to YouTube or other video sources. Actual video posted directly to Facebook).


If the user uploaded the video in flash format, it's in flash.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> +1. Flash is so insecure, it would be irresponsible for any application that handles sensitive data to use it, IMHO.


Bad example.

Tutorial videos on bank services are anything but a "security risk".

It's nice to know that at least the Android 3.0 platform isn't restricting such access.


----------



## bobukcat

Shades228 said:


> Google hasn't really driven the market for all of this though. They made a platform that is letting other companies take the ball and run with it. Just like MS did with windows.
> 
> Apple has it's due they created items that took the market by storm and right now it's the device to "kill". When someone says apple needs to make a XX killer. Then we know they fell behind. I won't buy an Apple product due to my wants but to say they aren't the best in innovation right now I'd have to argue.
> 
> The new tablets coming out are better than the Ipad imo. They still have to be released and then start beating the Ipad. When you see major companies start throwing apps at Honeycombe like they do the Ipad then it will happen.


Google's focused their innovations at their strengths - Software: specifically search, advertising, location, etc. Tell me that Google Search, GMail, Google Docs and Google Maps hasn't significantly changed both the desktop and mobile experience (as well as turning the GPS market on it's ear).

They don't make hardware for the mobile devices because as soon as they do they are a competitor to everyone who wants / may want to use Android. That same thing was a big part of why the Symbian foundation fell apart, Nokia ended up owning too much of it and everyone else wanted out.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> Same here. The sites I thought I'd miss it on, like nyt.com, now offer up their content in both Flash and HTML5, so no worries. I think even Adobe realizes the handwriting's on the wall for Flash:
> 
> http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2011/03/flash-to-html5-conversion-tool-on-adobe-labs.html
> 
> As for Flash on Honeycomb, it's apparently not quite ready for primetime. That said, I have no doubt Adobe will get it fixed at some point:
> 
> Flash Is Finally On The Xoom -- But It's Lame
> 
> The Xoom Gets Flash. But Don't Get Too Excited
> 
> Motorola Xoom Gets Flash Support&#8230;Sort Of


I've had my Xoom since mid-March and love it. The Flash player was released in late March and I've not seen any hiccups with it at all. Much, much smoother than my OG Droid running 2.3 but then that only has a 600MHz processor (even over-clocked to 1Gig it lags comparably). The SD card slot isn't available yet but with 32Gig on board and cloud services I'm not really complaining too much about that. I am excited for the LTE upgrade just to try it for speed, but no word on exactly when that will happen yet.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> I've had my Xoom since mid-March and love it. The Flash player was released in late March and I've not seen any hiccups with it at all. Much, much smoother than my OG Droid running 2.3 but then that only has a 600MHz processor (even over-clocked to 1Gig it lags comparably). The SD card slot isn't available yet but with 32Gig on board and cloud services I'm not really complaining too much about that. I am excited for the LTE upgrade just to try it for speed, but no word on exactly when that will happen yet.


Good to hear. Was only reporting what I found with a Google search for "flash on xoom". I don't think any of those 3 sites are anti-Honeycomb, anti-Flash or anti-Motorola, so perhaps it simply matters what you're trying to view?

The PC Magazine review ends with this:

_"Regardless, the Motorola's Xoom's major victory over the Apple iPad 2 has yet to happen. Flash should have been working on the tablet at release; it wasn't. *Now, it works in a watered-down form that improves the video experience* but by no means makes the iPad 2's browser seem incompetent.

We'll revisit the Motorola Xoom's review and rating on PCMag.com *when a full version of Flash* is supported."_


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently when a Fortune 500 company makes a multi-million dollar decision proven to repeatedly work for the public, its ignorant. FYI - it was very, very smart....and the surveys taken within 60 days after the transformation had an 84& approval rate by approximately 17,000 users. Who woulda thought? :lol:
> 
> As for Banks - they support multiple platforms routinely, and Flash was viewed by at least 19 of them (bigger ones) as needing Flash to present various tutorial content - a proven success to date based on thousands of customer feedback responses.


Just because it "works for the public" doesn't make it a good idea. Nor is every implementation done by a Fortune 500 company a good idea. Sounds like that company is stuck in the past. Reminds me of companies still using IE6.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I don't know about "companies," but personally I must be stuck in the past because I would never do my banking on a device (like a phone or tablet) that I could accidentally leave somewhere.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> That same kind of logic was thrown on the wall when iPhone had the leadership position, and now they don't anymore.


The iPhone is doing just fine. Show me 1 phone model that has sold 80+ million units. I'll wait.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Just because it "works for the public" doesn't make it a good idea.


I read that statement now 3 times outloud to myself.

OK...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> The iPhone is doing just fine. Show me 1 phone model that has sold 80+ million units. I'll wait.





Greg Alsobrook said:


> Just because it "works for the public" doesn't make it a good idea.


Round and round we go... :lol:


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't know about "companies," but personally I must be stuck in the past because I would never do my banking on a device (like a phone or tablet) that I could accidentally leave somewhere.


So you never do any e-banking with your laptop?  All kidding aside, the Citibank apps I use all have inactivity time-outs, no matter which platform I use them on.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I read that statement now 3 times outloud to myself.
> 
> OK...


Did you miss the IE6 analogy? Sure it works... but is it a good idea? No.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Round and round we go... :lol:


Still waiting...


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> Good to hear. Was only reporting what I found with a Google search for "flash on xoom". I don't think any of those 3 sites are anti-Honeycomb, anti-Flash or anti-Motorola, so perhaps it simply matters what you're trying to view?
> 
> The PC Magazine review ends with this:
> 
> _"Regardless, the Motorola's Xoom's major victory over the Apple iPad 2 has yet to happen. Flash should have been working on the tablet at release; it wasn't. *Now, it works in a watered-down form that improves the video experience* but by no means makes the iPad 2's browser seem incompetent.
> 
> We'll revisit the Motorola Xoom's review and rating on PCMag.com *when a full version of Flash* is supported."_


They also said:

S


> o, even with the beta version, Flash brings some advantages to the Xoom over the iPad 2 that did not exist previously. But both players are hit and miss with certain sites' video content-iPad doesn't do BBC, Xoom can't play ESPN video, for instance. The bottom line is: neither is truly offering a full Web experience. Which experience best suits you probably boils down to how much you care about cut-and-dry things Apple's iOS can't work around-like loading site tools that are built with Flash.


It's not a perfect implementation yet but does offer some advantages already and I think it will get better. FYI - you'll never hear me say the lack of Flash Support is a deal-breaker if you were planning on getting an Apple product, but potential buyers should be aware of each platforms weaknesses and strengths.


----------



## bobukcat

Greg Alsobrook said:


> The iPhone is doing just fine. Show me 1 phone model that has sold 80+ million units. I'll wait.


You won't see "1 phone model", you will see dozens of models from different manufacturers exceed those number, all running the same software. The best analogy I have is the PC versus Mac wars. MS didn't make PCs, they made software and the IBMs, Dells, HPs, etc. of the world eventually (and still do) DOMINATED the OS market with Windows PCs.

It doesn't mean the iPhone is dead or on it's death bed, quite the contrary - but at the current rate it will be a much less significant platform in the market relatively quickly.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> FYI - you'll never hear me say the lack of Flash Support is a deal-breaker if you were planning on getting an Apple product, but potential buyers should be aware of each platforms weaknesses and strengths.


Agree.

$$$'s rule, tho, and I think the fact that there will be an estimated 50 million+ iPads in use by the end of this year (and probably 150 million iOS devices in total) is going to force the HTML5 alternative issue. Any site that refuses to offer a non-Flash way to view its content is going to lose some eyeballs and become a less desirable buy for advertisers as a result.


----------



## Sixto

Steve said:


> Agree.
> 
> $$$'s rule, tho, and I think the fact that there will be an estimated 50 million+ iPads in use by the end of this year (and probably 150 million iOS devices in total) is going to force the HTML5 alternative issue. Any site that refuses to offer a non-Flash way to view its content is going to lose some eyeballs and become a less desirable buy for advertisers as a result.


And overall it may be much better for the industry in general.

Sometimes leaders/visionaries need to lead and just take their lumps after tough but appropriate decisions.

And, as with most things, the competition may spin it to try and promote weakness, and their followers will do the same.

But we live in America, survival of the fittest ... and the sales numbers will be displayed each quarter for all to see.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

bobukcat said:


> You won't see "1 phone model", you will see dozens of models from different manufacturers exceed those number, all running the same software. The best analogy I have is the PC versus Mac wars. MS didn't make PCs, they made software and the IBMs, Dells, HPs, etc. of the world eventually (and still do) DOMINATED the OS market with Windows PCs.
> 
> It doesn't mean the iPhone is dead or on it's death bed, quite the contrary - but at the current rate it will be a much less significant platform in the market relatively quickly.


Since we're not limiting ourselves to one device here, then surely you won't mind if we include iPods and iPads in this discussion... which puts iOS outreach 59% greater than Android. Sure doesn't seem like it's going to be a less significant platform anytime soon to me.

http://www.comscore.com/Press_Event...tform_Outreaches_Android_by_59_Percent_in_U.S

I also don't know if I would capitalize "dominate". Macs are gaining market share at a record pace.


----------



## spartanstew

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Since we're not limiting ourselves to one device here, then surely you won't mind if we include iPods and iPads in this discussion... which puts iOS outreach 59% greater than Android. Sure doesn't seem like it's going to be a less significant platform anytime soon to me.
> 
> http://www.comscore.com/Press_Event...tform_Outreaches_Android_by_59_Percent_in_U.S
> 
> I also don't know if I would capitalize "dominate". Macs are gaining market share at a record pace.


Well, it's a bit of a fudging numbers game when you include the ipod. If you remove that device and are only looking at phones and tablets, the numbers are quite different:

iOS: 22.5M
Android: 23.75M


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> Well, it's a bit of a fudging numbers game when you include the ipod. If you remove that device and are only looking at phones and tablets, the numbers are quite different: iOS: 22.5M
> Android: 23.75M


You can't eliminate iPod, tho, at least in my case. Being retired and mostly at home, I have no use for a 3G data plan. So I have a conventional phone and an iPod touch. Otherwise, I'd be using an iPhone.

I think Samsung recognizes that market too, because they're now offering similar Droid based media-only devices.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

spartanstew said:


> Well, it's a bit of a fudging numbers game when you include the ipod. If you remove that device and are only looking at phones and tablets, the numbers are quite different:
> 
> iOS: 22.5M
> Android: 23.75M


Why would you remove the iPod though? It's still a digital device that can surf the web, send/receive emails, make video calls, run any iOS app, and do VOIP calls (Skype). All it lacks is the ability to make cell calls, which the iPad lacks as well.


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Bad example.
> 
> Tutorial videos on bank services are anything but a "security risk".
> 
> It's nice to know that at least the Android 3.0 platform isn't restricting such access.


Videos embedded in Flash?? Troglodite!


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I read that statement now 3 times outloud to myself.
> 
> OK...


Think MacDonald's: It "works" for the public, but does it work for you?

[Yes, occasionally I will buy a bag of fries and a milkshake.... oooops.....]


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Why would you remove the iPod though? It's still a digital device that can surf the web, send/receive emails, make video calls, run any iOS app, and do VOIP calls (Skype). All it lacks is the ability to make cell calls, which the iPad lacks as well.


I'm with my friend Mr. Alsobrook here. You need to look at all of the iOS devices, not just the ones with voice capability, especially if you're talking about web browsing.


----------



## raott

"Greg Alsobrook" said:


> Why would you remove the iPod though? It's still a digital device that can surf the web, send/receive emails, make video calls, run any iOS app, and do VOIP calls (Skype). All it lacks is the ability to make cell calls, which the iPad lacks as well.


My iPod does none of those things.


----------



## Shades228

I made a porn joke about the ipad and 3 pages later we're still talking about flash.

Bottom line:

Programs are as bloated as the programmers make them
Flash has some security concerns just like every other application that is allowed to execute information.
Job/Apple hates Flash

Tablets are the original topic and it's been well established what tablets can do flash. 

Apple vs * People will buy what they like. 


FYI Android is removing support for .WMA and WMV natively. So that makes both tablets not supporting that format natively. I know you can get apps for it to work on Android. I'm betting IOS has an app for it as well.


----------



## bobukcat

raott said:


> My iPod does none of those things.


Right, you would have to look at only the most recent generations of iPods depending on what your criteria is for the comparison. My 2nd Gen Touch can't do any video or skype calling whatsoever (no microphone), so what is the criteria and then do you include devices like the Nook or Android Powered TVs, etc. in those comparison numbers??

I also noticed that the ComScore article is only for the US, but we could banter numbers all day - that wasn't my point or a game I feel like playing, let some analysts somewhere do that.


----------



## bobukcat

Greg Alsobrook said:


> I also don't know if I would capitalize "dominate". Macs are gaining market share at a record pace.


They may be gaining market share at a record pace but if you don't believe that PCs have completely dominated the market over the past 20 years I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. The best guess I can find for current market share without spending much time looking for it is around 12% for MACs. I didn't bother to look for what percentage Linux and other OSs account for but I would guess Windows has around 80% of the market based on the 12% for MACs.

BTW - I never said that the iPhone and iOS would be insignificant! I said it would be less significant than it is now, and I stand by that prediction. It's already happening and within two years I think will be a reality.


----------



## Alan Gordon

rich584 said:


> I was doing a difficult crossword puzzle last night and using my Droid to get some of the more obscure answers. All I could think about was, "I wish I had a tablet!" That little screen is a PITA. And I didn't want to lug the 17" laptop into the dining room, so I struggled on. The Xoom or the iPad would have been perfect for what I was doing.
> 
> You might not think that's much of a reason for spending $500, but I do.....:lol:


Actually, mobility was a big reason WHY I wanted an iPad...



Stuart Sweet said:


> It's funny... I thought I would miss flash. For the most part I don't. I miss a good Java implementation more.
> 
> I was saying the other day that iPad isn't perfect, and it isn't. There's a lot that it could do better.


Yep! Between getting my smart-phone and now, I realized how unimportant Flash is in the scheme of things...

As for the iPad not being perfect, you are absolutely correct. I have muliple criticisms... but I'm still loving mine nonetheless...

~Alan


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> And despite claims to the contrary...it is all over the place and should be a base offering for those who intend to browse the web.


It's not that Flash isn't still out there... but rather that it's importance is greatly diminishing...



Stuart Sweet said:


> Rationale or rationalization? I say the latter.


Agreed... then again, progress/innovation is rarely accomplished by altruistic motives...



raott said:


> I'm not sure most here are arguing that Flash is the future or that Flash isn't a resource hog. My point is that Flash is still a widely used format and the option should be given whether to install it or not. Google has it right, it's there if you want it, if you don't, then don't install it.


I'm not sure most here are arguing that Flash isn't a widely used format... what we are arguing is that that is changing. I used to consider the lack of Flash to be a negative... now I don't really consider it either way.

The Android tablets seem to be using the lack of Flash as a way to "stick it to the iPad"... but IMHO, the Android tablets (as a general rule) should focus more on their technical specs... which are far more impressive than the iPad. Saying they support Flash is (again, IMO) almost like Compaq/Dell/Acer or others promoting the fact that their computers run MS-DOS. Sure, that's a talking point for some, but for most, it's not that big of a deal...

~Alan


----------



## Groundhog45

Interesting article:

Adobe throws in towel, adopts HTTP Live Streaming for iOS


----------



## Alan Gordon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's also not going away anytime soon...they'll just keep improving it until something better comes along.


That'd make a great quote for a Kool-Aid commercial! 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm glad to see the numerous Android 3 tablets supporting it - I suspect there's good reason almost a dozen large tablet manufacturers deemed it a good idea.


Yeah - the good reason is that THEY have it, and their competitors don't.



Greg Alsobrook said:


> Why in the world would a banking website need flash?


Just out of a curiosity (not that it really mattered to me), I checked my bank, and it appears to work fine on my iPad. 



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently when a Fortune 500 company makes a multi-million dollar decision proven to repeatedly work for the public, its ignorant. FYI - it was very, very smart....and the surveys taken within 60 days after the transformation had an 84& approval rate by approximately 17,000 users. Who woulda thought? :lol:


Just because something involves a lot of money, involves something that has been repeatedly shown to work, or even shows good results means that it was the best way to do it, or forward thinking... it simply means that it works, and wasn't a complete failure.



Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm with my friend Mr. Alsobrook here. You need to look at all of the iOS devices, not just the ones with voice capability, especially if you're talking about web browsing.


CORRECT!! I know someone... well, I know his family, who's iPod is his source for the internet (etc.). I know there are others like him...

~Alan


----------



## tcusta00

The fact that ANYONE can have such a strong opinion of something or against something else without ever having owned ANYTHING in the product category is friggin' absurd. It's downright asinine and borders on some kind of mental impairment. Really. 

Fine, say you don't think it would work well for you and let it go, but to so vehemently argue the point over and over again that it's just not a good implementation based solely on what you've read boggles my mind. 

There are some Dish subscribers who adamantly defy DIRECTVs implementation of technology, but at least they own something in the satellite product category already and can say they've experienced it. The people that argue that iPad (or a tablet without flash) just isn't good without ever having owned a tablet and continue on about it with close to 100 posts (in just this thread!).... Well.........


:nono2:


----------



## Chris Blount

Before this gets too out of hand lets try to keep things friendly. 

Thanks.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

raott said:


> My iPod does none of those things.


Does your iPod run iOS? Cause that was the basis of the article.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

raott said:


> My iPod does none of those things.


If you're using a shuffle, nano, classic or older iPod, true. Those devices should not be included in the numbers. But iPod Touch should be.


----------



## Shades228

Intel is apparently offering incentives for people to start using their x86 chip.

http://www.topcomputertablets.com/intel-pushing-atom-tablets-cash-incentives-to-vendors/223619/



> Intel has made no attempt to hide the fact that they want into tablets big-time. They have been seen at every trade show and electronics and computer event, anywhere tablets are, and rumors have been flying about when we may be able to see the first Intel tablet. Since they also recently released their Oak Trail platform, they have reported that more than 30 tablets and tablet-convertibles were going to be launched by Samsung, Lenovo and other PC heavyweights that would be using their Oak Trail system.


----------



## Doug Brott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Apparently when a Fortune 500 company makes a multi-million dollar decision proven to repeatedly work for the public, its ignorant. FYI - it was very, very smart....and the surveys taken within 60 days after the transformation had an 84& approval rate by approximately 17,000 users. Who woulda thought? :lol:
> 
> As for Banks - they support multiple platforms routinely, and Flash was viewed by at least 19 of them (bigger ones) as needing Flash to present various tutorial content - a proven success to date based on thousands of customer feedback responses.


One of my banks uses Flash to interact with the account. Let me just say I really, really, really hate it. I never even access it from an iOS, so that's not the problem. It's just that the whole Flash thing sucks. There are much faster and useful ways to work.

The backup software I use at work also uses Flash to browse through the menus. If you have a P4 or a Centrio (Core Duo), forget it. The software uses more resources than the machine can handle. For years I resorted to an X-windows based client from 4 revisions back to control the system. I only "upgraded" recently when the machine was upgraded from 32-bit to 64-bit and using the older client became more painful (would have had to run on a secondary system).

Flash is not cool and I do whatever I can to avoid it.


----------



## Alan Gordon

"Doug Brott" said:


> One of my banks uses Flash to interact with the account. Let me just say I really, really, really hate it. I never even access it from an iOS, so that's not the problem. It's just that the whole Flash thing sucks. There are much faster and useful ways to work.
> 
> The backup software I use at work also uses Flash to browse through the menus. If you have a P4 or a Centrio (Core Duo), forget it. The software uses more resources than the machine can handle. For years I resorted to an X-windows based client from 4 revisions back to control the system. I only "upgraded" recently when the machine was upgraded from 32-bit to 64-bit and using the older client became more painful (would have had to run on a secondary system).
> 
> Flash is not cool and I do whatever I can to avoid it.


Yeah, my Windows 7 desktop that recently went kaput handled Flash fairly well, but my older models choke on pretty much anything Flash.

One of the reasons most of my surfing is now done on the iPad...

~Alan


----------



## Steve

Groundhog45 said:


> Interesting article:
> 
> Adobe throws in towel, adopts HTTP Live Streaming for iOS


Adobe sees the handwriting on the wall and is, IMHO, very shrewdly re-positioning their Flash authoring and serving tools business to support HTML5 as the paradigm shifts. Their Wallaby technology is another example of this. As the company stated in a March blog:

_"With more than 3 million Flash developers in the creative community we continue to look for new ways to help them build on their existing skills *and look for new ways to make their content available to the widest possible audiences*. The wider the audience, the greater the opportunities to build business around digital content."_


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> Thanks for starting this thread Rich
> I, too, am in the market for a tablet (Android) and have been following from the beginning of this thread, and will wait until I'm confident of my choice. This thread has been my best source of info


You're welcome. I gotta feeling we're gonna spend a good bit of time deciding which one to buy. I've only tried two, the iPad and the Xoom. Both were...nice. The Xoom seems to need some room to grow and the iPad...well, I didn't get a chance try the iPad2 so I can't really comment on that. But with all the new tablets coming out, it's gonna be a matter of which one gives me the best bang for the buck.

My son showed me how to do some more stuff on my Droid last night. The more I learn about that phone the more inclined I am towards a Droid based tablet. And yet, I can't ignore the knowledgeable folks here that lean towards the iPad2. Torn, I am. And enjoying the experience!

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> My son showed me how to do some more stuff on my Droid last night. The more I learn about that phone the more inclined I am towards a Droid based tablet. And yet, I can't ignore the knowledgeable folks here that lean towards the iPad2. Torn, I am. And enjoying the experience!


It really boils down to the apps, IMHO. I think the latest iPad2 commercial is a good reminder that it's really not about which tablet's CPU has more MEGAFLOPS, but rather what it is you can do with the device. Just my .02.


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't know about "companies," but personally I must be stuck in the past because I would never do my banking on a device (like a phone or tablet) that I could accidentally leave somewhere.


That's a good point. I'll bet any tablet is on the radar of thieves, big time.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> That's a good point. I'll bet any tablet is on the radar of thieves, big time.


While not a perfect anti-theft solution, I know that iOS devices can be remotely locked or wiped. If that capability doesn't already exist on Android-based devices, I expect we'll see it soon.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> They also said:
> 
> S
> 
> It's not a perfect implementation yet but does offer some advantages already and I think it will get better. FYI - you'll never hear me say the lack of Flash Support is a deal-breaker if you were planning on getting an Apple product, but potential buyers should be aware of each platforms weaknesses and strengths.


Have you been seeing more and more apps? I would have kept the Xoom if it had access to as many apps as my Droid.

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Steve said:


> While not a perfect anti-theft solution, I know that iOS devices can be remotely locked or wiped. If that capability doesn't already exist on Android-based devices, I expect we'll see it soon.


True - when you first register your iPad2 it even suggests you install the "Find iPhone" app which allows you to wipe your iOS device from another iOS device.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Stuart Sweet said:


> True - when you first register your iPad2 it even suggests you install the "Find iPhone" app which allows you to wipe your iOS device from another iOS device.


I believe they can also be wiped from a web browser at me.com. I know they can with a Mobile Me subscription anyway... Just not sure about the free version.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> True - when you first register your iPad2 it even suggests you install the "Find iPhone" app which allows you to wipe your iOS device from another iOS device.


Yup. And I'm pretty you can lock or wipe it from any web browser as well.


----------



## Steve

Greg Alsobrook said:


> I believe they can also be wiped from a web browser at me.com. I know they can with a Mobile Me subscription anyway... Just not sure about the free version.


Just checked. I don't pay for Mobile Me, but I can still lock or wipe via Mobile Me using my iTunes ID and P/W.

It also just pulled up a map showing me exactly where my iPad is at this time!

*EDIT: *Well not _exactly_. It's in the kitchen, but the map is showing it in the backyard! :lol:


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> You won't see "1 phone model", you will see dozens of models from different manufacturers exceed those number, all running the same software. The best analogy I have is the PC versus Mac wars. MS didn't make PCs, they made software and the IBMs, Dells, HPs, etc. of the world eventually (and still do) DOMINATED the OS market with Windows PCs.
> 
> It doesn't mean the iPhone is dead or on it's death bed, quite the contrary - but at the current rate it will be a much less significant platform in the market relatively quickly.


One of the things that Apple did early on was restrict it's computers from running mechanical processes in plants. I don't remember exactly why, but I know that was one of the reasons we let our lease with Apple run out in the early '90s. A few years after I quit working, I was teaching a class (I didn't consider it work) at a college for their tech center and we had some folks from a pharmaceutical company in for a class and I asked them why they didn't use Macs to run their really neat penicillin bottle filling machines. The guy that knew the most about that said that Apple wouldn't release enough info to them so they could use them.

If I remember correctly, Apple went thru some hard times because of that.

Rich


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Steve said:


> *EDIT: *Well not _exactly_. It's in the kitchen, but the map is showing it in the backyard! :lol:


Unkie Steve already knew that.  :lol:


----------



## klang

FYI, the 'Find my iPhone' stuff does not work if the device is in Airplane mode. Found that out the hard way with my wife's iPad. We did end up tracking down the cab we left it in.


----------



## Shades228

Steve said:


> It really boils down to the apps, IMHO. I think the latest iPad2 commercial is a good reminder that it's really not about which tablet's CPU has more MEGAFLOPS, but rather what it is you can do with the device. Just my .02.


# of apps is pointless really. All platforms have more junk apps then good apps. I concede that android could have more due to the open market but overall I would say both systems will have more apps then people will ever need/want/use.



Steve said:


> While not a perfect anti-theft solution, I know that iOS devices can be remotely locked or wiped. If that capability doesn't already exist on Android-based devices, I expect we'll see it soon.


Andriods is currently for select environments. Such as device policy for google app administration. Honeycombe will have better functions built into the kernel so this should be coming as well.



rich584 said:


> Have you been seeing more and more apps? I would have kept the Xoom if it had access to as many apps as my Droid.
> 
> Rich


Apps for Honeycombe aren't as prevelant as they are for the handsets yet because there is only 1 out there that runs it. Once these new tablets come out I bet we see a lot more apps come out for Honeycombe.


----------



## Rich

Alan Gordon said:


> Actually, mobility was a big reason WHY I wanted an iPad...


That was my first thought when the tablets came out. Just being able to read a book at night and wonder if the locations in the book were true or if you just wanted to see the area you were looking at and being able to pull a fair sized screen off my nightstand and have that answer readily at hand seemed worth the price. Info at your fingertips.

Rich


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> The fact that ANYONE can have such a strong opinion of something or against something else without ever having owned ANYTHING in the product category is friggin' absurd. It's downright asinine and borders on some kind of mental impairment. Really.
> 
> Fine, say you don't think it would work well for you and let it go, but to so vehemently argue the point over and over again that it's just not a good implementation based solely on what you've read boggles my mind.
> 
> There are some Dish subscribers who adamantly defy DIRECTVs implementation of technology, but at least they own something in the satellite product category already and can say they've experienced it. The people that argue that iPad (or a tablet without flash) just isn't good without ever having owned a tablet and continue on about it with close to 100 posts (in just this thread!).... Well.........
> 
> :nono2:


Glad you said it. I don't even know what Flash is...seriously...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> While not a perfect anti-theft solution, I know that iOS devices can be remotely locked or wiped. If that capability doesn't already exist on Android-based devices, I expect we'll see it soon.


Think the guys in NYC haven't figured out how to cope with that?.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

Shades228 said:


> # of apps is pointless really. All platforms have more junk apps then good apps. I concede that android could have more due to the open market but overall I would say both systems will have more apps then people will ever need/want/use.


Agree. I think the commercial was trying to highlight "good" apps, not the # of apps.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Think the guys in NYC haven't figured out how to cope with that?.....:lol:


That's may be one advantage of having to use that stupid iTunes to sync the iPads, or the Apple app store to add programs to them. Once either method tries to connect to Apple, that stolen iPad will probably get locked-up tighter than a clam.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> That's may be one advantage of having to use that stupid iTunes to sync the iPads, or the Apple app store to add programs to them. Once either method tries to connect to Apple, that stolen iPad will probably get locked-up tighter than a clam.


It would be interesting to know what a stolen tablet goes for. The guy who steals it probably makes $50-$75 on it.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> Have you been seeing more and more apps? I would have kept the Xoom if it had access to as many apps as my Droid.
> 
> Rich


More apps are always being added, I wouldn't say there are any new ones that have completely blown my socks off but then all the ones I thought were "must haves" were there from the beginning.

As I stated in the old thread, the Amazon App Store also allows you to install some apps on the Xoom that don't show up for it in the actual Android Market, so if you have an app that you love on your non-Honeycomb device you can load it from there (may have to buy it again or ask dev for refund of 2nd purchase).

The one application that I think would / will be killer fun for it is the Playstation One emulator. It doesn't currently work but the dev is working on it - being able to play games like Crash Bandicoot on the Xoom would be hella-cool if you ask me! Sony is also working on a PSOne application for non Xperia Android devices and will probably be selling that and games for it in the market later this year.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> It would be interesting to know what a stolen tablet goes for. The guy who steals it probably makes $50-$75 on it.


I actually think the iPads will be hard to fence, for the reasons I gave. I could be wrong, but i don't think the buyer of a device reported stolen will be able to add content to it without it being locked.


----------



## bobukcat

Stuart Sweet said:


> If you're using a shuffle, nano, classic or older iPod, true. Those devices should not be included in the numbers. But iPod Touch should be.


Again, my 2nd gen touch does run iOS and can surf the web but it can't do many of the other things we talked about as it has no camera, no microphone and only wi-fi for internet, so what is the criteria? Do we add Nook and Google TV sales to the Android numbers? What about then adding netbooks or laptops to the equation and factoring in Windows and other full OSs - certainly a netbook or laptop can do many of the same things you are talking about.

The numbers game can be played a lot of different ways but is any of that really relevant to the discussion? I don't really think so but again, if anyone doesn't believe that Android's growth is coming from Apple and everyone else's market share I'm not going to go to much trouble to try to convince you otherwise.

I don't think anyone is predicting that no one will care about iPods or iPhones 3 or even 5 years from now - although by then they may be implanted in our brains. :lol:


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> While not a perfect anti-theft solution, I know that iOS devices can be remotely locked or wiped. If that capability doesn't already exist on Android-based devices, I expect we'll see it soon.


WaveSecure has been available for remote lock / wipe / scream on the Android platform for about a year.

Google has recently announced they are adding this and many other security features (on-device and on-SD Card data encryption, etc.) for corporate Google Docs users.


----------



## tcusta00

Of the banking apps I've used (PNC and Bank of America) neither have an option to remember your password and when you exit the app (even multitasking) you have to re-login.


----------



## TBoneit

Alan Gordon said:


> Yeah, my Windows 7 desktop that recently went kaput handled Flash fairly well, but my older models choke on pretty much anything Flash.
> 
> One of the reasons most of my surfing is now done on the iPad...
> 
> ~Alan


Wow I must be really lucky here running Flash stuff on a lowly P4 3.2Ghz workstation cause it sure runs good.The place this computer is no good at is running HD video.

And Yes my i7 win7 desktop runs pretty much anything.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

TBoneit said:


> Wow I must be really lucky here running Flash stuff on a lowly P4 3.2Ghz workstation cause it sure runs good.The place this computer is no good at is running HD video.
> 
> And Yes my i7 win7 desktop runs pretty much anything.


You're not lucky...nor are you alone.

Many companies use Flash for tutorials, including on websites. Banks often use them for customer tutorials on various products and services.

Nobody is saying its the best thing since sliced bread - or that anyone needs to change their likes/dislikes of Flash - only that its common, and restricting a device from supporting is just that - restrictive. It is what it is.

Going back to the topic at hand....all of the new Android tablets seem to have Flash support.


----------



## Alan Gordon

"Steve" said:


> Just checked. I don't pay for Mobile Me, but I can still lock or wipe via Mobile Me using my iTunes ID and P/W.
> 
> It also just pulled up a map showing me exactly where my iPad is at this time!
> 
> EDIT: Well not exactly. It's in the kitchen, but the map is showing it in the backyard! :lol:


Yeah, I don't subscribe to MobileMe either and I have access to it. I've already set it up even though I never take it anywhere.

P.S.: Both my iPad and Android phone show me as being in the middle of the road. I'm not very smart to be playing with my phone or iPad in traffic... LOL!!!

~Alan

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Alan Gordon

"TBoneit" said:


> Wow I must be really lucky here running Flash stuff on a lowly P4 3.2Ghz workstation cause it sure runs good.The place this computer is no good at is running HD video.
> 
> And Yes my i7 win7 desktop runs pretty much anything.


I'm just speaking from my experience...

~Alan

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Alan Gordon

"Shades228" said:


> # of apps is pointless really. All platforms have more junk apps then good apps. I concede that android could have more due to the open market but overall I would say both systems will have more apps then people will ever need/want/use..


Agreed!

I'm frequently trying out new apps for both my Android phone, as well as my iPad in order to weed out the crap from that which is useful, fun, etc...

Downloaded quite a few on the App store (Apple) last night. There are multiple paid apps I'd like for my iPad, but I really haven't gotten any yet... Though I might make an exception this weekend since EA games are on sale this weekend...

~Alan

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> nobody is saying its the best thing since sliced bread - or that anyone needs to change their likes/dislikes of flash - only that its common, and restricting a device from supporting is just that - restrictive. It is what it is.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> it's nice to know that at least the android 3.0 platform isn't restricting such access.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> since i know of at least 1 huge company that just transformed over 100 internal intranet websites to feature flash, and i'm also directly familiar with numerous banking sites that feature flash - i see almost the opposite. That makes devices without it almost a show-stopper for consideration.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> to me...any platform that limits access to internet content found all over the place is a gaping hole that requires correction, not apologies or indifference.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> and despite claims to the contrary...it is all over the place and should be a base offering for those who intend to browse the web.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> a shame...since they immediately cut themselves out of at least part of the market for those who recognize a browser without adobe flash support is a wounded product.





hdtvfan0001 said:


> i agree.
> 
> A number of sites require it, including research and information library sites...even some airline sites...forget the porn argument - totally irrelevant....its commonplace in thousands of website locations, and should be readily available on any browser device.


:beatdeadhorse:

I think we can call it a wrap on this one.


----------



## tcusta00

The horse isn't only dead, PETA is picketing out front and the horse's kids have filed a lawsuit in federal court for abuse of an animal corpse.


----------



## Steve

Alan Gordon said:


> [...] Though I might make an exception this weekend since EA games are on sale this weekend...


Thanks for the tip, Alan! Just downloaded a couple of new EA games.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I sometimes find it interesting that critiques/reviews of tablets compare them to notebooks or even desktops and note all the negatives of what you can't do...

But...

I don't recall reading a review of a PSP or a Nintendo portable gaming device where it compared a PSP to a full Playstation with any real expectation that it would do all the same stuff.

I think it is cool when my iPad does things I didn't think it could... but that's a bonus... I have no expectations that it would replace my main home computer.

I haven't really looked at the other available tablets... because the iPad pretty much excels at what I want from it... but I'm sure other devices do the same for their customers.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Steve said:


> Thanks for the tip, Alan! Just downloaded a couple of new EA games.


I hate that a lot of these sales are after I already bought the games... I don't feel ripped off, but I wish they had a sale on the games I don't yet have so I can join in the buying party!


----------



## dave29

Chris Blount said:


> :beatdeadhorse:
> 
> I think we can call it a wrap on this one.





tcusta00 said:


> The horse isn't only dead, PETA is picketing out front and the horse's kids have filed a lawsuit in federal court for abuse of an animal corpse.


!rolling


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> :beatdeadhorse:
> 
> I think we can call it a wrap on this one.


Glad to hear.

The anti-flash rampage and insults were getting out of hand.


----------



## tcusta00

[Inner monologue]

He can't be serious. Can he? No way. It's just a joke. He's kidding. Hundreds of posts railing on Apple not having flash and having a closed environment and koolaid... he's gotta be freakin kidding. It would be insane, otherwise, right? Yeah he's just joking around about the whole thing. It's just gotta be a long, drawn out prank and he's gonna say "gotcha" I was being purposely obtuse any minute now.

[/inner monologue]

So yeah, glad we can put this to rest then.


----------



## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> Thanks for the tip, Alan! Just downloaded a couple of new EA games.


You're welcome!

I'm intending on getting Madden, but I haven't made up my mind about what else I'm getting yet. Decisions, decisions... 

~Alan


----------



## RasputinAXP

rich584 said:


> Think the guys in NYC haven't figured out how to cope with that?.....:lol:
> 
> Rich





bobukcat said:


> WaveSecure has been available for remote lock / wipe / scream on the Android platform for about a year.
> 
> Google has recently announced they are adding this and many other security features (on-device and on-SD Card data encryption, etc.) for corporate Google Docs users.


http://preyproject.com/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

It appears that another big name...Dell...will be getting into the Android Tablet game soon...according to Android Central...

http://www.androidcentral.com/dells-10-inch-tablet-gets-name-specs-meet-dell-streak-pro

Apparently there will be more than one model offered, all powered by the Android 3.0 Honeycomb OS.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It appears that another big name...Dell...will be getting into the Android Tablet game soon...according to Android Central...
> 
> http://www.androidcentral.com/dells-10-inch-tablet-gets-name-specs-meet-dell-streak-pro
> 
> Apparently there will be more than one model offered, all powered by the Android 3.0 Honeycomb OS.


:O I like dell now-a-days. They stepped their game up when they started making the XPS systems.


----------



## Sixto

It will be an interesting dynamic to see how the non-iPad market plays out over the new few years.

For the general population, it seems that the most significant drivers will be price and marketing/features.

If the price is less, and certainly if significantly less, then that might entice a non-iPad purchase, and also if features/functions are marketed to be "better", which gets me thinking that it maybe doesn't even matter the technical details, just that a general consumer hears/thinks that's it's better.

Very interesting times ahead.

Been thinking alot about this recently as I've compared and contrasted different commercials, specifically Apple vs Blackberry.

The Apple commercials show true "value" of the device, whether it's an airline boarding app, or playing the piano, or elegantly reading through a book ... while the Blackberry commercials, and I recently browsed through the future Bold Touch and Touch devices coming (big conference next week), well ... their ads are just pretty general fluffy stuff.

Will be interesting to see how the HoneyComb tablets differentiate themselves for the general public to enable significant penetration. They'll always get a few hundred thousand sales here and there, even the Playbook got 45,000 units day-1, but next up is the big push for huge penetration, and with the iPad being no-brainer for those that have the desire and cash, then we'll see how the non-iPad crowd sway the consumer to them for mass market penetration.

As we most things, it will all come down to price (maybe first), and usable features/functions that the general public feels are valuable.

Very interesting watching this play out.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> More apps are always being added, I wouldn't say there are any new ones that have completely blown my socks off but then all the ones I thought were "must haves" were there from the beginning.
> 
> As I stated in the old thread, the Amazon App Store also allows you to install some apps on the Xoom that don't show up for it in the actual Android Market, so if you have an app that you love on your non-Honeycomb device you can load it from there (may have to buy it again or ask dev for refund of 2nd purchase).
> 
> The one application that I think would / will be killer fun for it is the Playstation One emulator. It doesn't currently work but the dev is working on it - being able to play games like Crash Bandicoot on the Xoom would be hella-cool if you ask me! Sony is also working on a PSOne application for non Xperia Android devices and will probably be selling that and games for it in the market later this year.


I remember your suggestion about the Amazon App Store. I have been there and looked at all the apps. Some I would have bought. The way I'm thinking now is: Wait for the Acer and the Toshiba to come out, try them, and if they don't meet my needs, reconsider the Xoom.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I actually think the iPads will be hard to fence, for the reasons I gave. I could be wrong, but i don't think the buyer of a device reported stolen will be able to add content to it without it being locked.


Should be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised to go to the city and find them being sold by the street hawkers. Be nice if the security features worked as you envision them.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I remember your suggestion about the Amazon App Store. I have been there and looked at all the apps. Some I would have bought. The way I'm thinking now is: Wait for the Acer and the Toshiba to come out, try them, and if they don't meet my needs, reconsider the Xoom.
> 
> Rich


Just think of how things (apps) will blossom in the next few months when Amazon has their own branded Android 3 tablet (made by Samsung).

There are now over a dozen manufacturers who have already or plan to release Android 3.0 Honeycomb OS tablets within the next 3 months. With the Android store and Amazon both carrying apps...the choices should exponentially grow.

I like the fact that data encryption is one of the Honeycomb OS options - a good feature IMHO.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Of the banking apps I've used (PNC and Bank of America) neither have an option to remember your password and when you exit the app (even multitasking) you have to re-login.


My Norton 360 remembers passwords on our two computers that we use to access our BOFA accounts, but BOFA does ask for them each time. As does our library.

Rich


----------



## Doug Brott

Sixto said:


> As we most things, it will all come down to price (maybe first), and usable features/functions that the general public feels are valuable.


Right now .. and generally speaking .. iPad2 is running away with it. People (sane people) are waiting for the iPad2 when they can't find it rather than going to an available Android device. Thus far (again generally speaking), iPad is winning on price and value .. I'd argue that Apple wins on features/functions but feel it's safe to call that equal for all devices. Where Apple is losing at the moment is availability. The simple fact of the matter is "everyone" wants and iPad .. developers of applications know that "everyone" wants an iPad. Could "everyone" be wrong?


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Just think of how things (apps) will blossom in the next few months when Amazon has their own branded Android 3 tablet (made by Samsung).
> 
> There are now over a dozen manufacturers who have already or plan to release Android 3.0 Honeycomb OS tablets within the next 3 months. With the Android store and Amazon both carrying apps...the choices should exponentially grow.
> 
> I like the fact that data encryption is one of the Honeycomb OS options - a good feature IMHO.


I hope it's soon, my butts getting sore from this fence I'm sitting on....:lol:

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

"Doug Brott" said:


> Right now .. and generally speaking .. iPad2 is running away with it. People (sane people) are waiting for the iPad2 when they can't find it rather than going to an available Android device. Thus far (again generally speaking), iPad is winning on price and value .. I'd argue that Apple wins on features/functions but feel it's safe to call that equal for all devices. Where Apple is losing at the moment is availability. The simple fact of the matter is "everyone" wants and iPad .. developers of applications know that "everyone" wants an iPad. Could "everyone" be wrong?


Cue Koolaid comments. Lol

The iPad is just so polished. For a brand new device it's got 3+ years of iOS software maturity behind it, which makes it very appealing. At least that's one of the plusses in my book.

I've never held an apple product that hasn't felt solid as a rock, build-wise either. I think that's also why people are willing to wait for supply to catch up.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> Right now .. and generally speaking .. iPad2 is running away with it. People (sane people) are waiting for the iPad2 when they can't find it rather than going to an available Android device. Thus far (again generally speaking), iPad is winning on price and value .. I'd argue that Apple wins on features/functions but feel it's safe to call that equal for all devices. Where Apple is losing at the moment is availability. The simple fact of the matter is "everyone" wants and iPad .. developers of applications know that "everyone" wants an iPad. *Could "everyone" be wrong*?


Probably not...for now at least...but then again...*they said that when the iPhones came out*...now it's no longer "everyone" - nor even "most" anymore. Android's on top there today.

No doubt iPad owns that space at this moment in time.

Of note, however, is that in the non-U.S. markets where the Android tablets have been in stores for months...they sell out as fast as any iPads to date.

I think if the Androids coming out in droves in the next few months (from over a dozen manufacturers) they could really pick up steam, and with iPad3 slated for next Spring as rumored...there could be a momentum shift.

Lower prices and more open capabilities have been known to change "everyone's" minds. 

It will be interesting to watch. Pricing and timing will come into play.


----------



## Rich

Doug Brott said:


> Right now .. and generally speaking .. iPad2 is running away with it. People (sane people) are waiting for the iPad2 when they can't find it rather than going to an available Android device. Thus far (again generally speaking), iPad is winning on price and value .. I'd argue that Apple wins on features/functions but feel it's safe to call that equal for all devices. Where Apple is losing at the moment is availability. The simple fact of the matter is "everyone" wants and iPad .. developers of applications know that "everyone" wants an iPad. * Could "everyone" be wrong*?


That's the thing that bothers me. But the unavailability of the product also bothers me and at the rate we're going, the iPad3 will be out soon and anyone wanting to buy one will go thru the same thing again. The nice thing is that used iPads sell for a good price on eBay and CL.

Rich


----------



## AttiTech

rich584 said:


> That's the thing that bothers me. But the unavailability of the product also bothers me and at the rate we're going, the iPad3 will be out soon and anyone wanting to buy one will go thru the same thing again. The nice thing is that used iPads sell for a good price on eBay and CL.
> 
> Rich


Had a few I saw posted for $275-$450 on Craigslist


----------



## Rich

AttiTech said:


> Had a few I saw posted for $275-$450


That's something I'd rather buy on CL. At least you can go to the seller and see what kind of shape it's in. I bought my granddaughter a great set of drums for $25 last week. She totally destroyed the cardboard set my wife bought her for Xmas. I couldn't believe the price and the condition of the drums when I actually laid eyes upon them. Must have cost a bundle when new.

I bought the iPad1 that I had briefly at the Apple Store, then thought about how much more the new version could probably do and returned it, never thinking that it would take so long for the new version to be easily available. That, in itself, is kind of a turnoff.

Believe me, I've got nothing against Apple products. I used them for many years at work and really liked them. But their pricing, their availability...:nono2:

Rich


----------



## AttiTech

rich584 said:


> That's something I'd rather buy on CL. At least you can go to the seller and see what kind of shape it's in. I bought my granddaughter a great set of drums for $25 last week. She totally destroyed the cardboard set my wife bought her for Xmas. I couldn't believe the price and the condition of the drums when I actually laid eyes upon them. Must have cost a bundle when new.
> 
> I bought the iPad1 that I had briefly at the Apple Store, then thought about how much more the new version could probably do and returned it, never thinking that it would take so long for the new version to be easily available. That, in itself, is kind of a turnoff.
> 
> Believe me, I've got nothing against Apple products. I used them for many years at work and really liked them. But their pricing, their availability...:nono2:
> 
> Rich


I purchased a lot from Craigslist. Bought a SNES in great condition with 7 games for $35 a few weeks ago. Came with 2 controllers, all the cabling, ect. STEAL?!


----------



## Sixto

Doug Brott said:


> Right now .. and generally speaking .. iPad2 is running away with it. People (sane people) are waiting for the iPad2 when they can't find it rather than going to an available Android device. Thus far (again generally speaking), iPad is winning on price and value .. I'd argue that Apple wins on features/functions but feel it's safe to call that equal for all devices. Where Apple is losing at the moment is availability. The simple fact of the matter is "everyone" wants and iPad .. developers of applications know that "everyone" wants an iPad. Could "everyone" be wrong?


Exactly.

Personally, as I just upgraded, I felt that it would have been a little irresponsible for me to go with anything but the mature proven platform for now. It also didn't hurt that the iPad1 had such high resale value (it got gobbled up with a quick 1-day sale on eBay).


----------



## Rich

AttiTech said:


> I purchased a lot from Craigslist. Bought a SNES in great condition with 7 games for $35 a few weeks ago. Came with 2 controllers, all the cabling, ect. STEAL?!


I think CL attracts a lot of out of work folks. And they don't research the prices as well as eBay sellers do. The guy I got the drums from was desperate for money. He'd been a stock broker and has been out of work since '94. Sad story.

Rich


----------



## Sixto

I've also been wondering if the iPad will actually further help iPhone sales, with many now thinking that they'd prefer to have similar devices. Have seen several situations with friends/family lately where they're switching from Android to the iPhone and when I asked why it's because they want the same iOS platform for both. Which then gets me thinking if those with an Android phone might prefer an Android tablet someday, but they'd first need a mature Android tablet.

And with the iPhone being the leader and growing now that Verizon carries it, specific device, not platform, it will be interesting to see how the dynamic plays out over time.

Personally for me, the fact that the iPhone and iPad are such total cohesive integrated solutions, with no outside parts, and such a high resale value, just was so compelling. At least for the iPad, I'm still stuck on the Blackberry for corporate e-mail for a while.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Personally, as I just upgraded, I felt that it would have been a little irresponsible for me to go with anything but the mature proven platform for now.


If I was in a hurry to make a choice today...who knows...maybe I'd do the same thing. Makes sense in your context, and I respect that you need to do what is right for your purposes. I'm sure you are enjoying your tablet.

I've now had the chance to spend several weeks with both the original and iPad 2 units, and concur there is much to like. Apple does alot of things well - not everything - but alot. If they has all the answers than some would have us think...the original iPad would have lasted longer in the market before any iPad2 was seen.

But Apple was smart enough to see the shortcommings - enter iPad 2....and later iPad3.

But without any critical urgency, and with a number of functional needs not being met by any tablet on the shelf today (Xoom is perhaps the closest)...a tablet purchase here at this specific time would be irresponsible.

Since I have both the luxury of time and research, which includes considering other offerings coming into play (several of which *do* offer expected functionality) I'm just looking to make the *right* purchase, not the popular one at a particular point in time. I have no intent to buy a new tablet every other year.


----------



## sigma1914

This thread has my mind spinning and now more confused on what to buy my Mom (reference my thread in the Buy, Sell, & Trade forum). :lol:


----------



## AttiTech

sigma1914 said:


> This thread has my mind spinning and now more confused on what to buy my Mom (reference my thread in the Buy, Sell, & Trade forum). :lol:


Personally, I'd look into just getting her a cheap/decent laptop instead. With the way the pricing is now, with the amount you would spend on a decent tablet for her to use you'd spend the same amount getting her the laptop. She's have a larger screen and full keyboard, 2 advantages you don't have with the tablets (unless you have to buy an additional item for it).


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> ... But Apple was smart enough to see the shortcommings - enter iPad 2....and later iPad3 ...


Have seen that comment a few times here in the thread, and I think ...

The iPad2 is just a better model, and hopefully they'll be a better model every year. As with most technology, it's thinner, faster, more polished, different colors, another cellular provider, it's just better ... but that's expected.

And next year, the iPad3 will be better.

Been this way in the technology world for decades, but I never view the current model as being deficient, as much as I just view it as being the current model.

Funny ... Best Buy just called a few minutes ago, my reserve order is in. Told the guy that I already picked up the unit at another Best Buy earlier in the week and I had let his store know the same day, but we did get to chat a little. He says demand is phenomenal, a line every day this week for pre-orders, and he's so happy that they finally have a truckload in, not everything they need, but many units.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Should be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised to go to the city and find them being sold by the street hawkers. Be nice if the security features worked as you envision them.


They're not new features. Been there since the iPhone 3GS and iPad 1, AFAIK, and I never read anything about stolen iPhones or iPad's. :shrug:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Funny ... Best Buy just called a few minutes ago, my reserve order is in. Told the guy that I already picked up the unit at another Best Buy earlier in the week and I had let his store know the same day, but we did get to chat a little. He says demand is phenomenal, a line every day this week for pre-orders, and he's so happy that they finally have a truckload in, not everything they need, but many units.


No doubt...the Best Buy full page ad fueled that fire. 

Then again...call back in 30-60 days..and he might be telling you the exact same thing about the Android 3 tablets that they'll start to carry next week.

You're right...things change quickly in the tech arena.

I have at least 3 boxes in the basement with Commodore 64's, Atari units, Playstation's, cell phones, and other things that ruled the day once. I call it my Smithsonian collection.


----------



## Sixto

sigma1914 said:


> This thread has my mind spinning and now more confused on what to buy my Mom (reference my thread in the Buy, Sell, & Trade forum). :lol:


IMHO, if it was my Mom, then the iPad is a very safe choice, but it all depends on her technical background.

The iPad is totally Mom-proof, nothing to worry about, no anti-virus to worry about, no Windows registry corruption to ever worry about, just perfect.

And the Apple product is totally supported by Apple, no need to worry about different hardware and software configurations, and if you get the 2-year protection then you're covered for any questions that she ever has, and the Apple store seems just awesome for older non-technical folks.

The one issue though is that you'll need iTunes to configure it for her, but other then that, it's idiot proof.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> They're not new features. Been there since the iPhone 3GS and iPad 1, AFAIK, and I never read anything about stolen iPhones or iPad's. :shrug:


One thing I've always enjoyed buying were the cheap, no name brand, imitation products and comparing them with the actual product it was copying. I had an iPod Touch and an imitation brand and minus the Apple app store, there were some nifty apps and games that had been changed to work on the imitation. It played music just fine, worked as a small e-reader, had a camera before the iPod Touch did and was able to use Skype with the built in microphone. Cost me $80 on geeks.com :lol:

EDIT: The WiFi was fantastic on it as well. I loaded most web pages in a snap (unless it was bogged down with things all over the place like gamestop.com)


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> The iPad is totally Mom-proof, nothing to worry about, no anti-virus to worry about, no Windows registry corruption to every worry about, just perfect.


...unless Mom wants to print something easily and directly via a USB or bluetooth connection of course... OK...rubbing it in... :lol:

They are easy to use though...I set up my future son-in-law's unit on my secure network in under 30 seconds. Obviously, even a cavemen can do it.


----------



## Shades228

Sixto said:


> IMHO, if it was my Mom, then the iPad is a very safe choice, but is all depends on her technical background.
> 
> The iPad is totally Mom-proof, nothing to worry about, no anti-virus to worry about, no Windows registry corruption to every worry about, just perfect.
> 
> The one issue though is that you'll need iTunes to configure it for her.


The same can be said for Droid tablets as well. Except the itunes of course.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Shades228 said:


> The same can be said for Droid tablets as well. Except the itunes of course.


He said it.......not me.......not me....... !rolling

[You're right, of course]


----------



## Sixto

Shades228 said:


> The same can be said for Droid tablets as well. Except the itunes of course.


Funny, I had just updated the post to address that.

For my Mom, it would only be the iPad, mature, solid, Apple Store support, rock solid.


----------



## Shades228

The one thing that is great about the tablets with SD cards is that you can get a smaller priced one at the beginning and if your storage needs change just get a SD card later on. That's one other thing to think about.


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> Where Apple is losing at the moment is availability. The simple fact of the matter is "everyone" wants and iPad .. developers of applications know that "everyone" wants an iPad. Could "everyone" be wrong?


While I was on line buying mine, two people behind me were buying their second iPads, because one spouse was "hogging" the first one they bought! Not to mention the fact that even the originals are in short supply.



Sixto said:


> It also didn't hurt that the iPad1 had such high resale value (it got gobbled up with a quick 1-day sale on eBay).


More proof that people don't care about specs as much as functionality. Look at AT&T spending big bucks on prime-time advertising for the $49 iPhone 3GS's! And when the iPhone 5 comes out, it'll prolly be $49 iPhone 4's.

A couple of days after AT&T & Verizon each announced they were clearing out iPad 1 inventory at $100 off list, my daughter called every ATT/VZW store within a 10 mile radius here in NY and couldn't find a single one available.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> While I was on line buying mine, two people behind me were buying their second iPads, because one spouse was "hogging" the first one they bought! Not to mention the fact that even the originals are in short supply.
> 
> More proof of the fact that people don't care about specs as much as functionality. Look at AT&T spending big bucks to advertise the $49 iPhone 3GS's in prime-time!
> 
> A couple of days after AT&T & Verizon announced they were clearing out iPad 1 inventory at $100 off list, my daughter called every ATT/VZW store within a 10 mile radius here in NY and couldn't find a single one available.


Should have went with a 50 mile radius


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Funny, I had just updated the post to address that.
> 
> For my Mom, it would only be the iPad, mature, solid, Apple Store support, *rock solid*.


"*MMMmmm....almost*" rock solid... 

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/25/is-your-ipad-2-experiencing-intermittant-wifi-connection-issues/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/20/ipad-2-problems-the-biggest-complaints-from-users_n_837759.html#s255055&title=Backlight_Bleeding

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20110409/tc_pcworld/reportappleinvestigatesverizonipad2problem

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20042462-37.html

http://www.ismashphone.com/2011/03/know-issues-with-ipad-2.html


----------



## Shades228

I don't buy ease of use between the OS. They are both easy to navigate and use. Given my exeperience I think Android is easier because it's cleaner. However you can clutter it up just as easy.

So far I haven't heard of a manufacturer really skinning Honeycombe like they have cell phones. I think that they realise if theirs looks too different from the others people will not associate it correctly with Android or perhaps Honeycombe.

We're getting close to back to apple vs android. Obviously we recommend what we use so that makes sense to a degree. However I try to stay away from blanket statements about one specific device.


----------



## Sixto

I think that I better just go enjoy the Easter weekend, because you guys are nuts. 

If anyone actually thinks that the iPad platform isn't rock solid then OMG. 

For my Mom, I just couldn't imagine any other tablet, that is if I decided on a tablet. 

It better be dam rock solid if they're going to sell 40 million of them this year!


----------



## Sixto

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> He said it.......not me.......not me....... !rolling
> 
> [You're right, of course]


I'm not an expert on printing but it seems like I'd want the printing to be wireless, with one of the new iOS supported wireless printers. Can't imagine telling her that she needs to be USB attached to print.


----------



## Doug Brott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> "*MMMmmm....almost*" rock solid...
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/25/is-your-ipad-2-experiencing-intermittant-wifi-connection-issues/
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/20/ipad-2-problems-the-biggest-complaints-from-users_n_837759.html#s255055&title=Backlight_Bleeding
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20110409/tc_pcworld/reportappleinvestigatesverizonipad2problem
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20042462-37.html
> 
> http://www.ismashphone.com/2011/03/know-issues-with-ipad-2.html


Maybe you shouldn't get an iPad .. 

Still, if you do get one, you won't regret it.


----------



## Steve

Sixto said:


> [...] Can't imagine telling her that she needs to be USB attached to print.


Not sure where that idea came from, but I agree, it would be an absurd notion for a tablet. While do-able, USB printing barely makes sense for a laptop, IMHO!


----------



## Doug Brott

Sixto said:


> For my Mom, I just couldn't imagine any other tablet, that is if I decided on a tablet.


I'd sorta say the same thing, but my parents picked up an Android phone this past week (didn't even know they were looking). If they get to a point where a tablet makes sense, then I'd have to consider another option for them. Product familiarity is still important. But that, too will probably be 12-24 months from now at the earliest and the world will be much different by then - no point in worrying about it now. :lol:

I do know that folks with Android phones are happy .. as are those with iPhones. So really, it's tough to go totally wrong no matter the choice. The biggest wrong may be going without when there is a need.


----------



## Sixto

"Doug Brott" said:


> I'd sorta say the same thing, but my parents picked up an Android phone this past week (didn't even know they were looking). If they get to a point where a tablet makes sense, then I'd have to consider another option for them. Product familiarity is still important. But that, too will probably be 12-24 months from now at the earliest and the world will be much different by then - no point in worrying about it now. :lol:
> 
> I do know that folks with Android phones are happy .. as are those with iPhones. So really, it's tough to go totally wrong no matter the choice. The biggest wrong may be going without when there is a need.


Same happened to me a few weeks ago. Visited with my Dad and he had an iPhone4 with Verizon. Had no idea he was even looking at a new phone. Seems to love it. Checking in with him again this weekend.


----------



## AttiTech

Doug Brott said:


> I'd sorta say the same thing, but my parents picked up an Android phone this past week (didn't even know they were looking). If they get to a point where a tablet makes sense, then I'd have to consider another option for them. Product familiarity is still important. But that, too will probably be 12-24 months from now at the earliest and the world will be much different by then - no point in worrying about it now. :lol:
> 
> I do know that folks with Android phones are happy .. as are those with iPhones. So really, it's tough to go totally wrong no matter the choice. The biggest wrong may be going without when there is a need.


I love my Android phone. I'm thinking of upgrading it and my wife's phone soon to an HTC. She's been wanting to get one with touchscreen and a full QWERTY. Means I need to sell the 2 Android Comet's we have :lol:


----------



## Shades228

AttiTech said:


> I love my Android phone. I'm thinking of upgrading it and my wife's phone soon to an HTC. She's been wanting to get one with touchscreen and a full QWERTY. Means I need to sell the 2 Android Comet's we have :lol:


I would pick up a Droid 2 used for your wife if she wants one with a keyboard. However phones with a 4" screen have bigger keyboards than those that are hardware based. Also with swype or the gingerbread keyboard it's slower to use a hardware based keyboard.


----------



## AttiTech

Shades228 said:


> I would pick up a Droid 2 used for your wife if she wants one with a keyboard. However phones with a 4" screen have bigger keyboards than those that are hardware based. Also with swype or the gingerbread keyboard it's slower to use a hardware based keyboard.


Swipe is interesting and I have a blast with the weird things it will type if you use it quickly. If the screen is large enough she may not want the full QWERTY slide out.


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I've now had the chance to spend several weeks with both the original and iPad 2 units, and concur there is much to like. Apple does alot of things well - not everything - but alot. If they has all the answers than some would have us think...the original iPad would have lasted longer in the market before any iPad2 was seen.
> 
> But Apple was smart enough to see the shortcommings - enter iPad 2....and later iPad3.
> << Snipped bits out >>


I suggest that those 'reasons' are not what compels major hardware players to introduce new products!


----------



## Laxguy

Shades228 said:


> The one thing that is great about the tablets with SD cards is that you can get a smaller priced one at the beginning and if your storage needs change just get a SD card later on. That's one other thing to think about.


Just what do you envision storing on a tablet?? Many posts I've seen from those with 64 gigs, and even some 32's say that's way more than they need.


----------



## Laxguy

Doug Brott said:


> Maybe you shouldn't get an iPad ..
> 
> Still, if you do get one, you won't regret it.


Well, we know that those who bash it the most have the biggest secret desire to possess one.... but that they are also ones likely to be in deeeeeeeep denial....

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


----------



## TBoneit

Steve said:


> Not sure where that idea came from, but I agree, it would be an absurd notion for a tablet. While do-able, USB printing barely makes sense for a laptop, IMHO!


as inexpensive as wireless printers have become I can not believe more laptop users don't use them. Sure you save a few dollars with bottom of the line USB printers however.....

I still get people looking for an adapter to hook up a parallel port printer to their new USB only computers.

For my own use I'm thinking about a network laser-jet for home use. Put it anywhere one the network and voila.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> Maybe you shouldn't get an iPad ..
> 
> Still, if you do get one, you won't regret it.


It's still an option...just not the only option.


Steve said:


> Not sure where that idea came from, but I agree, it would be an absurd notion for a tablet. While do-able, USB printing barely makes sense for a laptop, IMHO!


Not for a docked tablet with keyboard...which is an option....hardly absurd. Bluetooth is another option....also not absurd.


Laxguy said:


> I suggest that those 'reasons' are not what compels major hardware players to introduce new products!


That was in direct response to the "rock solid" claim. Yes...even the iPad2's have flaws...not the end of the world...but not perfection or Utopia either.

Some of that "perfection" is where the anti-Apple mindset comes from - the constant "Apple does everything right or perfect" or "Apple knows what you want more than you do". Both are falsehoods.

If and when a person can get past that...perhaps they can actual appreciate what it does bring to the table, which today is the leading tablet device. No one disputes that fact.

But it also doesn't preclude that others have the *potential* to build a better mousetrap, and have people consider them without blind allegiance. Only time will tell if that happens, but if history is any kind of teacher...it happened at least once with the iPhone....so it *could* happen again.

At least if I end up with an iPad some day...it will come after making an open-minded and comparative look at *all* of the various alternatives. Until recently, there were almost none - now there are.


----------



## Doug Brott

TBoneit said:


> as inexpensive as wireless printers have become I can not believe more laptop users don't use them. Sure you save a few dollars with bottom of the line USB printers however.....
> 
> I still get people looking for an adapter to hook up a parallel port printer to their new USB only computers.
> 
> For my own use I'm thinking about a network laser-jet for home use. Put it anywhere one the network and voila.


I haven't had a non-network printer for well over a year and for many years before that I would use my desktop PC as the print server so it was networked for everyone else. A non-networked printer is a non-starter for me these days.

I do have a network laserjet for home use (color even )


----------



## Shades228

Laxguy said:


> Just what do you envision storing on a tablet?? Many posts I've seen from those with 64 gigs, and even some 32's say that's way more than they need.


Music, video, apps, pictures. Apps are starting to get rather large as well. It's not uncommon for some of these games to be upwards of 100megs. Now with tablet apps we'll start to see office type apps that will start taking up some space. The more memory available the more memory programmers feel they need to take up.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> *Just what do you envision storing on a tablet?? *Many posts I've seen from those with 64 gigs, and even some 32's say that's way more than they need.


Apps keep getting bigger.

More important...things like MPEG4 video files, graphical files, PDF files, and others can get to be huge.

I can buy a 16GB Android tablet for $450, and a 64GB SD card for $40...so on that front...the memory expansion is a plus....not the only consideration...but a plus. I typically look at the purchase based on what I might need tomorrow, not just today.

If those things aren't important to a buyer, then the feature is pretty much irrelevant.

The good news is the more people at least ask themselves what matters, the better decisions they'll make no matter which device they choose.


----------



## Groundhog45

If Nomad is ever released and it is a method of copying programs to a portable device like we suspect it is, I can see folks wanting a fair amount of storage and/or a way to include removable storage. I don't have a pressing need for a tablet, although being able to use the DirecTV app would be nice D), but something like Nomad could swing the balance in favor of getting one.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

I have an iPad... and an iPhone 4...

To me the biggest flaws in both of these devices are the same:

1. No user-replaceable battery.
2. No support for SD-RAM for additional storage.

These are not MAJOR flaws... but they are flaws, to me, in the design... unless Apple is banking on people wanting to upgrade every 1-2 years before the battery would need replacing and before you really push the limits of available storage.

No devices are perfect... Most of the other differences are personal preference issues, I think, rather than design flaws.

I really can only classify the two things I listed here as "flaws" really.

To be fair on both points, though...

I never needed a replacement for either of my two previous cellphone batteries... (I had two other phones before the iPhone)... and my old iPhone doesn't need a battery replacement either... so that's three previous phones all with well over 2 years use on them and never needed a new battery before the phone was replaced by a new one.

The storage is more of a sticking point if you get the smaller capacity.

I never got much past half-full on my 16GB iPhone... and have lots of room on my 32GB iPhone 4.

I am sometimes pushing it on my iPad 16GB... probably really could have used a 32GB... but I didn't anticipate leaving as many apps on it as I find myself leaving.


----------



## AttiTech

Stewart Vernon said:


> I have an iPad... and an iPhone 4...
> 
> To me the biggest flaws in both of these devices are the same:
> 
> 1. No user-replaceable battery.
> 2. No support for SD-RAM for additional storage.
> 
> These are not MAJOR flaws... but they are flaws, to me, in the design... unless Apple is banking on people wanting to upgrade every 1-2 years before the battery would need replacing and before you really push the limits of available storage.
> 
> No devices are perfect... Most of the other differences are personal preference issues, I think, rather than design flaws.
> 
> I really can only classify the two things I listed here as "flaws" really.
> 
> To be fair on both points, though...
> 
> I never needed a replacement for either of my two previous cellphone batteries... (I had two other phones before the iPhone)... and my old iPhone doesn't need a battery replacement either... so that's three previous phones all with well over 2 years use on them and never needed a new battery before the phone was replaced by a new one.
> 
> The storage is more of a sticking point if you get the smaller capacity.
> 
> I never got much past half-full on my 16GB iPhone... and have lots of room on my 32GB iPhone 4.
> 
> I am sometimes pushing it on my iPad 16GB... probably really could have used a 32GB... but I didn't anticipate leaving as many apps on it as I find myself leaving.


Whatever tablet I decide on, I think I'm going with the base model if the SD slot is expandable to 64GB


----------



## tcusta00

I think people have taken to copying their same anti apple rhetoric over from other threads and pasting it again here. 

There's that dead horse again. Sixto got it: crazy.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Groundhog45 said:


> If Nomad is ever released and it is a method of copying programs to a portable device like we suspect it is, I can see folks wanting a fair amount of storage and/or a way to include removable storage. I don't have a pressing need for a tablet, although being able to use the DirecTV app would be nice D), but something like Nomad could swing the balance in favor of getting one.


Good point sir.

I guess some don't get the value of expandable storage or perhaps simply won't need it. That's OK too. :shrug:


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good point sir.
> 
> I guess some don't get the value of expandable storage or perhaps simply won't need it. That's OK too. :shrug:


The way I always look at it is for storage, I don't know what the next latest and greatest thing out for my device/computer I'll want to own and it could be huge. I could get slammed on my side job and need to save a lot of PDF/HTML/Designs and might run out of space. My wife may go on a photo taking frenzy of my son, not tell me like usual, and then when I need to save something important, I have no space :lol:


----------



## Shades228

HBO GO coming to Android devices in May. I would bet that HC will be some of the devices.

http://www.everythingandroid.org/hbo-go-coming-to-select-android-devices-may-2nd/2011/04/22/



> DirecTV announced earlier this month that consumers would soon be able to stream movies and television shows via HBO Go directly from their Android devices.
> 
> The television service provider has shed a little more light on that today, Tweeting that 'selected Android devices' would be able to stream content via HBO Go beginning on May 2nd.
> 
> Unfortunately, they didn't specify which devices the service would be available for but we're expecting more details as we get closer to May 2nd. The service is entirely free for DirecTV subscribers.


This is the whole article minus a picture. Not sure if I can quote the whole thing if not will a mod make it legal?


----------



## AttiTech

Shades228 said:


> HBO GO coming to Android devices in May. I would bet that HC will be some of the devices.
> 
> http://www.everythingandroid.org/hbo-go-coming-to-select-android-devices-may-2nd/2011/04/22/
> 
> This is the whole article minus a picture. Not sure if I can quote the whole thing if not will a mod make it legal?


Another reason to upgrade my phone to a more advanced Droid


----------



## Stewart Vernon

AttiTech said:


> The way I always look at it is for storage, I don't know what the next latest and greatest thing out for my device/computer I'll want to own and it could be huge. I could get slammed on my side job and need to save a lot of PDF/HTML/Designs and might run out of space. My wife may go on a photo taking frenzy of my son, not tell me like usual, and then when I need to save something important, I have no space :lol:


I've mentioned this in another thread relating to desktops...

Sometimes expandability is overrated.

I grant you that I would prefer to have an SD slot for more storage capability too... but for people that are going to buy a new device every year or every other year... expandability doesn't matter as much.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> Sometimes expandability is overrated.
> 
> I grant you that I would prefer to have an SD slot for more storage capability too... *but for people that are going to buy a new device every year or every other year*... expandability doesn't matter as much.


True...but how many people actually intend to buy a new tablet every year?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here's a list of the current and upcoming tablets:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20037960-1.html?tag=contentBody;contentHighlights

Here's CNet's "Top 5 Android Tablets" - reviews....

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-tablets/best-5-android-tablets?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Here's a pretty neutral Tablet Buyers Guide:

http://reviews.cnet.com/2719-3126_7-1045.html?tag=auxPromo

CNet praises the iPad , Xoom, and other tablets, but balances their overview with the following:


> _In many cases, an inexpensive Netbook is a better value than a tablet.
> 
> At their best, tablets deliver an appealing compromise between a smartphone and a laptop. Strip away the hype, and it can be tough to rationalize purchasing a tablet over more tried and true options.
> 
> Specifically, keep your illusions of using a tablet for productivity in check. It's not impossible, but a laptop arguably offers a more practical solution for those looking to get work done.
> 
> In terms of price, great laptops, smartphones, and tablets can all be had for around the same $400-$800 price range (factoring in phone carrier subsidies and plans). So, putting price aside, take some time to ask yourself what you hope to get out of a tablet. A smartphone or Netbook might be a better fit for you, and possibly a better value.
> 
> Some common complaints against tablets include:
> 
> • Smudgy screens
> • Nonreplaceable battery
> • Adobe Flash incompatibility
> • Limited printing support
> • Awkward to type on
> • Lack of multiple user accounts
> • Poor business software support
> • Carrier contracts_


----------



## Sixto

Interesting write-up, especially with the very lengthy list.

Personally, I'm happy that with iOS there was only only one choice, it certainly made it easy, especially with app confidence and when it comes time to upgrade relative to resale value.

I did need to decide on cellular carrier (or not), memory size, and color. I went with AT&T, 32GB, and Black. Despite being all Verizon (Landline, FiOS Internet, Wireless), preferred AT&T because one vacation spot that we frequent has zero Verizon 3G service, and iPad1 3G service has been fine everywhere I've traveled and not as critical as phone service.

Honestly, I wish everyone here great luck sifting through the various Android options, but I've been siding with the easy "go with the respected leader" option, and hopefully I never need to worry about the future road-map (with a new unit announced each year), support, app availability, and eBay desire. Yes, Android will be a great choice for some others as well, but with all of the various Android fragmented choices, like the iPhone situation, there probably will never be one specific competitor model that exceeds the iPad volumes, which for me is a critical deciding factor.

Not looking to sway anyone here, and no disrespect to others with different opinions, choice is good in America, but just feel that I'd post one person's view as I see these lengthy lists.

Did have half the family over for Easter weekend yesterday (with the other half today), and again the iPad (iPad2 this time), was a big hit. It was interesting yesterday to learn of new apps, as others tried their favorite apps on the iPad2. Everything was available, lots of cool stuff out there, even stuff for one of the family members baby!

I did take a little survey, as there's been the thread here, and most weren't much aware of the non-iPad choices, being that all of their apps were first on the iPad. That may change with Android popularity, but just figured I'd ask.


----------



## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's a list of the current and upcoming tablets:


Pretty good list, but not complete. It'd be nice if we had a link to all of them.


----------



## Drucifer

hdtvfan0001 said:


> . . . .
> 
> CNet praises the iPad , Xoom, and other tablets, *but balances their overview with the following:*


I'm wondering too if tablets are just a hot selling fad, that will come down to earth in a couple of years to join the rest of the mix.


----------



## Doug Brott

As more people have tablets, presumably fewer will need to buy them ... But there is definitely a market for continued existence.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> Pretty good list, but not complete. It'd be nice if we had a link to all of them.


There are even more rumored ones beyond that list too....they seem to be coming out of the woodwork.

Take two tablets and call me in the morning.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> True...but how many people actually intend to buy a new tablet every year?


I don't know... but there seem to be long lines for the new iPad as there were for the new iPhone... and if other Tablet manufacturers adopt that same scenario of releasing something new each year...

I know some desktop manufacturers also refresh their line yearly... and I don't re-buy one every year myself... but it would appear a lot of people do, otherwise there would be few people for them to sell the new model to each year.


----------



## Drucifer

My question is -- What function can a Tablet do that that other electronic devices like Netbook, Laptop, Notebook can't do?


----------



## Steve

Drucifer said:


> My question is -- What function can a Tablet do that that other electronic devices like Netbook, Laptop, Notebook can't do?


For one thing, I never had a doctor tell me to take two laptops and call him in the morning.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> I don't know... but there seem to be long lines for the new iPad as there were for the new iPhone... and if other Tablet manufacturers adopt that same scenario of releasing something new each year...
> 
> I know some desktop manufacturers also refresh their line yearly... and I don't re-buy one every year myself... but it would appear a lot of people do, otherwise there would be few people for them to sell the new model to each year.


We do know that about 1/3 of the iPad2 buyers were original iPad owners...so there should be somewhat of a glut (plenty on eBay) of the original model out there. Other than that group...not sure the "buy a tablet every year or so" crowd is very big.


----------



## CCarncross

hdtvfan0001 said:


> True...but how many people actually intend to buy a new tablet every year?


Everyone one of them that needs to have the latest greatest toys...and there are way more of those type of people out there than most would care to admit.

:lol:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> For one thing, I never had a doctor tell me to take two laptops and call him in the morning.


Good one!....:lol:

But he's got a point. The only answer to his question that I can come up with is mobility. It's easier to carry one around, easier to use in bed--that kind of thing.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Stewart Vernon said:


> I don't know... but there seem to be long lines for the new iPad as there were for the new iPhone... and if other Tablet manufacturers adopt that same scenario of releasing something new each year...


Two folks on line behind me for the iPad2 were buying their _second _iPads, because they complained their spouses were hogging the iPad 1. Made me feel good about buying my first.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Two folks on line behind me for the iPad2 were buying their _second _iPads, because they complained their spouses were hogging the iPad 1.


Then again...I can remember people standing in line to buy pet rocks and cabbage patch kids when they came out too.


----------



## Sixto

Drucifer said:


> My question is -- What function can a Tablet do that that other electronic devices like Netbook, Laptop, Notebook can't do?


The iPad2 (or other tablet) enables a new era of personal/mobile computing.

For me ...

No longer need to be tied to a desk/chair for casual viewing, or lugging a laptop around... it's an elegant easy way to stay connected, whether it's in bed, on the couch, on the recliner, in the Kitchen, just about anywhere.

The app ecosystem is also very compelling. Besides the volume of apps, the ability to always have up-to-date applications is very nice. They all just automatically update themselves, and at least presently, there's no need to worry about legacy PC issues such as viruses, registry settings, or much anything. It all just works.

I'd much rather use the iPad rather then the little screen on the cell phone, or luggable laptop, whether be in a waiting room, or cramped coach-class on the airplane. The iPad makes for a very nice mobile entertainment center on the plane ... music, videos, books ... or for those that commute on a train or bus or just about anywhere.

Also especially like Forum Runner ... it's just so pleasant to browse the forums while somewhat mobile.

And the newspaper and magazine apps are also elegant. A few of my local newspapers have the exact replica on the iPad, and they run much smoother on the iPad2 with the enhanced graphics performance.

And the MLB At Bat App is so cool, just getting into it lately, and the DirecTV full-screen app, ....

And I'm just scratching the surface ... I'm sure others have similar stories about music apps, or games, or medical stuff, the list goes on and on.

In summary, the iPad2 is just something that can sit on the coffee table, or in the Kitchen, or beside the bed ... that's totally flexible, light, with a zillion apps.

For those with the ability to afford one, it's a great purchase.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> But he's got a point. The only answer to his question that I can come up with is mobility. It's easier to carry one around, easier to use in bed--that kind of thing.


I find web browsing (my #1 activity) is much more fluid on the iPad than with a mouse and keyboard. And unless you're using their Chrome-specific web portal, e.g., I agree with *Sixto *, the New York Times and other publishers generally offer a much nicer daily reading experience on tablets, IMHO, via dedicated apps.

*EDIT:* I forgot to mention that The New York Times's tablet content gets updated when you're last connected to wifi or 3g. This allows you to still read the entire contents on the train or plane, even if no wifi or 3g service is available.


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> We do know that about 1/3 of the iPad2 buyers were original iPad owners...so there should be somewhat of a glut (plenty on eBay) of the original model out there. Other than that group...not sure the "buy a tablet every year or so" crowd is very big.


I also thought that there might be a glut, thus the shock when my iPad1 was gobbled up within a few hours on eBay. A year old device and I got almost 65% of what I paid for it.

I'm hoping that buying into the premier platform may enable me to stay current over time. At least from iPad1 to iPad2 was easy, will see what the future brings as other platforms enter and dilute the market.


----------



## Sixto

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...I can remember people standing in line to buy pet rocks and cabbage patch kids when they came out too.


While anything is possible I guess, it appears doubtful that the tablet market will go the route of pet rocks and cabbage patch dolls.

It fills a void not previously mastered (consumer tablet computing), and thanks to the visionaries that developed the iPad, and the followers now entering the market, a new useful dynamic market is born.

Cool stuff.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> At least from iPad1 to iPad2 was easy, will see what the future brings *as other platforms enter and dilute the market*.


That assumes 2 things that are unproven 1) the current market is saturated (otherwise there could be no dilution) and 2) the market is fully served now (which according to the CNet article is not at all the case).

It also assumes a mature buying market for tablets, and that also remains to be seen. Outside the U.S....the new Androids are selling like hotcakes - many to former iPad users. Who knows what we'll see as they roll out in the U.S.

I suspect there's plenty of room for growth on multiple platforms, and we'll even start to see users changing platforms as more alternatives/capabilities become available.

The tablet platform (all types) is still immature in the general marketplace.


----------



## Sixto

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> That assumes 2 things that are unproven ...


Hmmm. My comment was just that with new platforms entering and diluting the tablet space, that maybe I won't be as lucky next time to get such great resale value, though the Mac folks seem to be doing pretty good.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Hmmm. My comment was just that with new platforms entering and diluting the tablet space, that maybe I won't be as lucky next time to get such great resale value, though the Mac folks seem to be doing pretty good.


I got that....but diluting seems to infer a limited market, whereas I suspect the tablet market is just at the early stages of reaching its potential.

The iPad was a success, and the iPad2 is doing almost as well...so there's little reason to think that once more capabilities are added - which translates into more potential reasons to buy - the market has plenty of future potential for growth. That has already been seen overseas.

Fast forward to 1Q 2012 - iPad 3 perhaps and (by then) a whole ream of Android tablets....the combination will likely fuel the interests of many folks who have not entered the market yet. The two could actually feed upon each other in a way...stirring up more interest in the tablet platform.


----------



## Sixto

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I got that....but diluting seems to infer a limited market, whereas I suspect the tablet market is just at the early stages of reaching its potential.
> 
> The iPad was a success, and the iPad2 is doing almost as well...so there's little reason to think that once more capabilities are added - which translates into more potential reasons to buy - the market has plenty of future potential for growth. That has already been seen overseas.
> 
> Fast forward to 1Q 2012 - iPad 3 perhaps and (by then) a whole ream of Android tablets....the combination will likely fuel the interests of many folks who have not entered the market yet. The two could actually feed upon each other in a way...stirring up more interest in the tablet platform.


Yep, exactly, definitely much growth, bright future.


----------



## Sixto

WooHoo. Just discovered the NFL '11 iPad App for the Draft this week. I'm usually running around with some printouts and the laptop. Really nice app for this week, by round, by team ... entering a new way to watch the draft ... man, this is great.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*Yet another *new Android tablet from a big manufacturer seems to be headed for release soon...

Lenovo (the Thinkpad folks) will be getting into the game with a nice-looking Android 3 tablet and keyboard combination offering.

http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/04/24/next-gen-android-thinkpad-leaked-feature-packed/


----------



## Stewart Vernon

hdtvfan0001 said:


> We do know that about 1/3 of the iPad2 buyers were original iPad owners...so there should be somewhat of a glut (plenty on eBay) of the original model out there. Other than that group...not sure the "buy a tablet every year or so" crowd is very big.


Yeah... but right now those are the only two iPads possible.

Next year if another 1/3 of those original iPad owners buy an iPad 3... then you will have well over 50% of people upgrading in a 2 year period.

In 3 years time, at that pace, you would have complete turnover of your original customers.

Now I'm not saying it does continue at that pace... but I bet it does get close to 50% of people within 2 years replacing their mobile device.

Look at the iPhone that has now been through several iterations (iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4)... and remember how many people were mad that they had a 2 year commitment with AT&T that prevented them from upgrading to the latest model each year...


----------



## tcusta00

Let's compare iPad to a pet rock and expect to be taken seriously.  :lol:

Don't know why I'm even bothering but it's like watching a caveman play with fire for the first time... You just know something entertaining is gonna come of it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stewart Vernon said:


> In 3 years time, at that pace, you would have complete turnover of your original customers.
> 
> Now I'm not saying it does continue at that pace... but I bet it does get close to 50% of people within 2 years replacing their mobile device.
> 
> Look at the iPhone that has now been through several iterations (iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4)... and remember how many people were mad that they had a 2 year commitment with AT&T that prevented them from upgrading to the latest model each year...


Good points. Obviously brand loyalty is a good thing for Apple, yet replacing those devices so frequently and regularly seems a bit obsessive.

Maybe waiting a bit isn't the worst idea after all.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Good points. Obviously brand loyalty is a good thing for Apple, yet replacing those devices so frequently and regularly seems a bit obsessive.
> 
> Maybe waiting a bit isn't the worst idea after all.
> 
> Too bad that isn't what was said....there's nothing more sad than being totally misquoted, but then, old habits die hard for some.


What'd you say then? 

You also said that many android tablets are selling like hotcakes to former iPad users. Please provide link. Or stop spreading FUD. Thanks.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> If you don't know what was said, you shouldn't be making lame comments about it and hijacking a thread in the process.


I know what you said: You compared the iPad to a pet rock. I said that was silly. You refuted that you made the comparison. I asked what you thought you said. You called my comment lame and said I hijacked the thread.

But then I don't have a hundred posts here telling everyone how lame something i don't even own is.

I'm lame. Yep.

Stop railing on all things apple for no reason other than you hate apple and I'll stop pointing out the same. And yes, I get that you respect and appreciate apple blah blah but it's just not for you blah blah glad we have choices blah blah.

But here you are. Still railing on apple. Three years later. You don't like apple. We all get it. Steve Jobs has gotten the memo by now.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Discuss The Topic, Not Each Other!

Mike


----------



## klang

Hating a technology you don't care for seems like such a waste of time. Especially if someone keeps posting about that technology over and over and over and over......:nono2:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Hating a technology you don't care for seems like such a waste of time. Especially if someone keeps posting about that technology over and over and over and over......:nono2:


I haven't seen a single post indicating that anyone *hates* any technology...

But there has been information on more than one tablet platform posted, based on the topic outlined in the original post.

Comparisons and alternatives have been shared, including 3rd party links with alternative views and products. Knowing the pros and cons of any product prior to a purchase investment is a good thing. There is no perfect tablet, and one size doesn't fit all.

Choices are good.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

This may come as a shock to one or two select posters, but I *don't* see this as good news...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2383969,00.asp

Regardless of one's specific OS of choice, anything impeding the overall momentum of tablet sales doesn't help the platform as a whole. I'd prefer to see *all* the competing tablets doing well, to encourage further evolution of the platform.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Looks like *Staples* is getting into tablet sales in a big way...more than one platform...including pre-orders for some devices....

http://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/technology-research-centers/tablets/index.html?cm_mmc=sbd_acq-_-product_042511-_-CONS_DI-_-num&cm_

That would seem provide folks with a place do some "hands on comparisons"....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

An interesting new social message app for both iPad and Android...

http://www.sys-con.com/node/1804366


----------



## BubblePuppy

I reread the op, I was hoping this thread would be about users experience with the different tablet types. But unfortunately it has deteriorated into I vs them, as all threads of this nature do, and the comments about individual(s) really don't help. 
Perhaps someone with first hand experience with the other new tablets could start posting so this thread will get back on track.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BubblePuppy said:


> I reread the op, I was hoping this thread would be about users experience with the different tablet types. But unfortunately it has deteriorated into I vs them, as all threads of this nature do, and the comments about individual(s) really don't help.
> Perhaps someone with first hand experience with the other new tablets could start posting so this thread will get back on track.


Thank you.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BlackBerry PlayBook Tablet Sells 45,000 Units on the First Day According to Analyst - link here:

http://tablet-news.com/2011/04/22/blackberry-playbook-tablet-sells-45000-units-on-the-first-day-according-to-analyst/


----------



## TBlazer07

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Yet another *new Android tablet from a big manufacturer seems to be headed for release soon...
> 
> Lenovo (the Thinkpad folks) will be getting into the game with a nice-looking Android 3 tablet and keyboard combination offering.
> 
> http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/04/24/next-gen-android-thinkpad-leaked-feature-packed/


Gonna be a bit large though:
Capacitive pens for note taking, *55-inch thin*, USB 2.0, Micro USB, and mini-HDMI ports as well as a full-sized SD card slot.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

TBlazer07 said:


> Gonna be a bit large though:
> Capacitive pens for note taking, *55-inch thin*, USB 2.0, Micro USB, and mini-HDMI ports as well as a full-sized SD card slot.


Saw that - oh the difference punctuation can make... ... 1/2 inch thick (0.55 inches) seems to be commonplace in the latest Androids coming out.

Since Lenovo makes the Thinkpads...wonder if their intended market is more the business users. :shrug:


----------



## TBlazer07

The company I really don't understand is Blackberry. How could they possibly even get a hangnails worth of market share wedged between IOS, Android and even Windows. It just makes no sense despite the large business following they have with their phones. Why would any dev waste time on that line unless their objective is only to be a niche player for their large but slowly shrinking phone owners. They certainly won't be a big player with the home user crowd.


----------



## TBlazer07

From "Compute!" Magazine, March 1988


----------



## klang

BubblePuppy said:


> I reread the op, I was hoping this thread would be about users experience with the different tablet types. But unfortunately it has deteriorated into I vs them, as all threads of this nature do, and the comments about individual(s) really don't help.
> Perhaps someone with first hand experience with the other new tablets could start posting so this thread will get back on track.


Problem is it is mostly vaporware at this point. Announcements but no actual products in users hands yet.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

TBlazer07 said:


> From "Compute!" Magazine, March 1988[/QUOTE]
> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> The history on these is interesting indeed (with more photos)...
> 
> [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/history-tablet-pc-photos_n_538806.html#s77827&title=RAND_Tablet_1964"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/history-tablet-pc-photos_n_538806.html#s77827&title=RAND_Tablet_1964[/URL]
> 
> [QUOTE][B]Love 'em or hate 'em, tablet PCs are hot right now. But this latest development in personal computing and entertainment is nothing new, no matter how "magical" or "revolutionary" it may seem.[/B][/QUOTE]


----------



## BubblePuppy

"klang" said:


> Problem is it is mostly vaporware at this point. Announcements but no actual products in users hands yet.


Then this thread should be alot shorter than it is.


----------



## AttiTech

Really the thread stays mostly on topic. We can't all have hands on experience with all the tablets at this point, but atleast articles, comparisons and opinions are being shared, which is the point of the thread. Certain people could not argue over trivial matters and could do so through PM's instead of in the thread, but I see the same person doing it in every thread they post in so it's not going to help here. 
Tabelts are the subject, and the longer we go with this thread, the more inventive they get.


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I haven't seen a single post indicating that anyone *hates* any technology...
> 
> Choices are good.


Yes, on the choices, but isn't there a poster who is vehemently against a company whose technology uses sandboxes? One that's based in Silicon Valley and has an amazing track record in innovation? One whose market capitalization is now gargantuan? 
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


----------



## AttiTech

Apple has some nifty commercials that do make you want to purchase their product, but as for the iPads, I think they left some things out, which in turn makes me question the reliability of the product and whether or not it would do EVERYTHING I want it to. If I'm willing to drop upwards of $500-$800 on something, I would expect it to have everything I want, or it wasn't worth the money. I speak about it as if the tablet is for me, which isn't ENTIRELY true, since it's going to be a gift for my wife, I'm determined even more so to have it all perfect. Working SD slot out of the box, Flash capable out of the box, mini-HDMI, 10.1" HD screen. I can't be offered all these from iPads currently, so they can't really be a consideration. If they did offer them, I would be more likely to compare it to the Android 3 tablets I'm weighing out now.


----------



## AttiTech

Another quick thought here, has anyone played with the very cheap versions of all these? The 7" tablets with Android 2.2 on them? Saw some for around $125 and thought it would be a fun toy for on the side when I purchase my wifes 10.1 tablet.


----------



## Sixto

AttiTech said:


> Apple has some nifty commercials that do make you want to purchase their product, but as for the iPads, I think they left some things out, which in turn makes me question the reliability of the product and whether or not it would do EVERYTHING I want it to. If I'm willing to drop upwards of $500-$800 on something, I would expect it to have everything I want, or it wasn't worth the money. I speak about it as if the tablet is for me, which isn't ENTIRELY true, since it's going to be a gift for my wife, I'm determined even more so to have it all perfect. Working SD slot out of the box, Flash capable out of the box, mini-HDMI, 10.1" HD screen. I can't be offered all these from iPads currently, so they can't really be a consideration. If they did offer them, I would be more likely to compare it to the Android 3 tablets I'm weighing out now.


Very fair perspective, just make sure if there are any critical apps, that they're available, or you're hopeful that they will be available, and optimized for your platform. Personally, I'd be very frustrated to spend $729 and then have to wait, or worse find out my specific unit isn't on the list. I'm no HoneyComb expert, and it seems like most Apps will eventually be available, but you may want to check. For me, I had blind faith in the iPad because it just seemed like everything is mostly available on the iPad first.

I've been toying with note taking apps lately, just got a stylus, and there's maybe a dozen iPad apps, which for me has been great to be able to evaluate and experience. Also had a conversation with a teacher yesterday and a local high school is providing all incoming freshman with an iPad in the Fall which seemed cool, had already seen the same with a local 5th grade class and posted a while back.

The market is certainly expanding, and exploiting the technology, good luck with whatever you choose.


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> Another quick thought here, has anyone played with the very cheap versions of all these? The 7" tablets with Android 2.2 on them? Saw some for around $125 and thought it would be a fun toy for one the side when I purchase my wifes 10.1 tablet.


The Nook Color is actually a pretty nice Android tablet. I bought one, but found the 7" screen size too small for all the web browsing I like to do, for my eyes. For $250 MSRP, tho, it's built like an iPad, with the same high quality. B&N didn't scrimp at all on the design, IMHO.


----------



## AttiTech

Sixto said:


> Very fair perspective, just make sure if there are any critical apps, that they're available, or you're hopeful that they will be available, and optimized for your platform. Personally, I'd be very frustrated to spend $729 and then have to wait, or worse find out my specific unit isn't on the list. I'm no HoneyComb expert, and it seems like most Apps will eventually be available, but you may want to check. For me, I had blind faith in the iPad because it just seemed like everything is mostly available on the iPad first.
> 
> I've been toying with note taking apps lately, just got a stylus, and there's maybe a dozen iPad apps, which for me has been great to be able to evaluate and experience. Also had a conversation with a teacher yesterday and a local high school is providing all incoming freshman with an iPad in the Fall which seemed cool, had already seen the same with a local 5th grade class and posted a while back.
> 
> The market is certainly expanding, and exploiting the technology, good luck with whatever you choose.


Much appreciated. I have a feeling as I progress with the tablet I'll find more and more things I'll need it for and need apps for, but for right now if I can check my email, play some flash based games, take pictures, and play with interesting apps I run across. Basic apps I know will be there are okay with me, but who knows. One day I may need an app to have them scan my ticket for a flight, or check my bank statements, but for now I'm okay with keeping those on paper


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> The Nook Color is actually a pretty nice Android tablet. I bought one, but found the 7" screen size too small for all the web browsing I like to do, for my eyes. For $250 MSRP, tho, it's built like an iPad, with the same high quality. B&N didn't scrimp at all on the design, IMHO.


I considered purchasing one and modding it, but then I saw the tablets that are built to be a tablet with android 2.2 in it for $125+ on geeks.com and I love their off brand items. They always work and are pretty much the same thing from my experience and sometimes better. Had an off brand iPod Touch and it was better than my 2G iPod Touch


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> I considered purchasing one and modding it, but then I saw the tablets that are built to be a tablet with android 2.2 in it for $125+ on geeks.com and I love their off brand items. They always work and are pretty much the same thing from my experience and sometimes better. Had an off brand iPod Touch and it was better than my 2G iPod Touch


I agree that's often the case. If you go to a B&N store and hold the metal-encased Nook Color in your hands, you'll see what I'm talking about re: build quality (and screen), vs. the cheaper plastic ones. You just have to decide if the quality bump is worth the extra $100.


----------



## Steve

BTW, just noticed that B&N announced some Nook Color goodies today, including an update to Froyo (which I thought it already had :scratchin), Flash support and an app store! And for those that feel it matters, the NC has an SD card slot and appears as a USB mass storage device when connected to a PC.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...gets_Froyo_update_and_app_store?taxonomyId=12


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> BTW, just noticed that B&N announced some Nook Color goodies today, including an update to Froyo (which I thought it already had :scratchin), Flash support and an app store! And for those that feel it matters, the NC has an SD card slot and appears as a USB mass storage device when connected to a PC.
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...gets_Froyo_update_and_app_store?taxonomyId=12


A Nook app store or an android based app store?  Only problem I see is how well is it goign to work? If I rooted a Nook Colour I would have to use Android 2.2. If the system specs are better or match the knock off tablets I would purchase for fun/modding, then I would consider the Nook over those.


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> A Nook app store or an android based app store?


Not sure. According to betanews:

_"Now without having to root the Nook Color, users have access to an app store that has support from approximately 5,000 developers creating Nook Color (or at least 7" FroYo tablet supportive) apps, access to Yahoo Mail, GMail, Hotmail, AOL mail and other POP/IMAP accounts, improved pinch-to-zoom in the browser, and more."_

So even if a B&N-managed app store, sounds like it will get quickly populated by already available apps for the 7" Samsung Galaxy Froyo tab, e.g.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

It has always seemed like a good deal for $250.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Not sure. According to betanews:
> 
> _"Now without having to root the Nook Color, users have access to an app store that has support from approximately 5,000 developers creating Nook Color (or at least 7" FroYo tablet supportive) apps, access to Yahoo Mail, GMail, Hotmail, AOL mail and other POP/IMAP accounts, improved pinch-to-zoom in the browser, and more."_
> 
> So even if a B&N-managed app store, sounds like it will get quickly populated by already available apps for the 7" Samsung Galaxy Froyo tab, e.g.





Stuart Sweet said:


> It has always seemed like a good deal for $250.


WOW - that is a good deal for that unit, and thanks Steve for the update info on the apps.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> It has always seemed like a good deal for $250.


Ya. With the superb build quality, I always wondered if they're lost leaders to book sales, and B&N is losing money on them, or at best breaking even.

And kudos to B&N, because unlike Kindles, they supported access to free public library books (via Overdrive) from day one. I only read recently that Amazon may finally allow this in the near future.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Ya. With the superb build quality, I always wondered if they're lost leaders to book sales, and B&N is losing money on them, or at best breaking even.
> 
> And kudos to B&N, because unlike Kindles, they supported access to free public library books (via Overdrive) from day one. I only read recently that Amazon may finally allow this in the near future.


More here on the Amazon "connection"...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/226175/nook_color_update_sends_ereader_wars_into_overdrive.html

Rumors of an Amazon Android 3 tablet have been out there for a few months now. The plot thickens.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> Ya. With the superb build quality, I always wondered if they're lost leaders to book sales, and B&N is losing money on them, or at best breaking even.
> 
> And kudos to B&N, because unlike Kindles, they supported access to free public library books (via Overdrive) from day one. I only read recently that Amazon may finally allow this in the near future.


Do you have a link to the internal specs of the NC? Processor speed, HDD size and sd expandability, graphics, ect


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> Do you have a link to the internal specs of the NC? Processor speed, HDD size and sd expandability, graphics, ect


Ya. 

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=nook+color+specs


----------



## Stuart Sweet

The whole thing makes me wonder if the future of Android tablets is in subsidized or ad-supported devices. Get a decent-sized, decent-powered device in someone's hands for $50 and make up the cost in app sales, e-book sales, in-device advertising, etc.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> The whole thing makes me wonder if the future of Android tablets is in subsidized or ad-supported devices. Get a decent-sized, decent-powered device in someone's hands for $50 and make up the cost in app sales, e-book sales, in-device advertising, etc.


There's likely some truth to that...at least for the lower tier devices <$300.

There are some top manufacturers releasing the Android 3 larger units, so perhaps not for those....then again...Google runs the OS show.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> Ya.
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=nook+color+specs


I appreciate it. It's hard for me to do anything on my work computer with how much we're blocked off, but sites with all text I can read.


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> I appreciate it. It's hard for me to do anything on my work computer with how much we're blocked off, but sites with all text I can read.


Gotcha! Just breakin' chops. :lol:

$249 Nook Color specs, as posted here:

PCB: Foxconn ML1 S 94V-0
CPU Processor: ARM Cortex A8-based Ti OMAP 3621 @ 800 MHz (same processor as Droid 2 and Droid X)
GPU Processor: PowerVR SGX530 Graphics Rendering: Open GLES1.1/2.0 Hardware Scaling: 854x480 scaled to 1024x600 Video Formats: .3GP, .MP4, .3G2 ** Video Codecs: H.263, H.264, MPEG-4, ON2 VP7 ** Image Formats: JPEG, GIF, PNG, BMP ** (same GPU as Droid 2 and Droid X)
RAM: 512MB Hynix H8MBX00U0MER-0EM MCM (Stacked Chips 2x256MB each die mDDR)
Internal Flash: 8GB Sandisk SDIN4C1-8g
Removable Flash: 32GB via microSDHC
Radio: Chip ID Ti wl1271 (kernel reports wl1273) Chip supports bluetooth transmit/recieve and fm radio functions through the same antenna, but is not enabled in software drivers. Connectivity: 802.11b/g/n Security: WEP/WPA/WPA2/802.1x Mode: Infrastructure
Display: 7" 1024x600 IPS Display w\VividView Cypress Semiconductor TTSP Gen 3 (TMA340) Touchscreen , kernel driver , reference LG Display LD070WS1 (SL)(02) LED Backlight Pixels per Inch: 169 Aspect Ratio: 16:9 Colors: 16 Million Viewing Angle: 178° (same as HTC 7 Surround and HTC 7 Mozart)
Audio: Ti TLV320DAC3100 Codec 3.5mm Headset Jack (TRS 3-Pole) - no mic input Single Rear Speaker PWM Headphone Amp Headphone Detection Mic Amp and ADC (Mic input not available) Audio Formats: .3GP, .3G2, .MP4, .AMR, .MP3, .MID, .XMF, .MXMF, .RTTL, .OTA, .IMY, .WAV, .OGG, .ACC ** Audio Codecs: ACC, ACC+, AMR, MP3, MIDI, LPCM **
Power Management: Texas Instruments TPS65921 PMIC Integrated Power Management IC with 3 DC/DC's, 4 LDO's, USB HS Transceiver
Battery: "Barnes & Noble" labeled 3.7V 4000mAh 14.8Wh Li-ion battery Battery Life: ~8 hours
Physical Specifications Dimensions: 8.1" (205mm) L x 5" (127mm) W x 0.48" (12.2mm) D Weight: ~15.8oz (~422g)
Micro-B USB 2.0 High-Speed
Accelerometer
Input Virtual QWERTY Keyboard On-Screen Soft-Keys ** 'n' Home button Power\Lock button Volume Up\Down buttons

FWIW, 1024x600 on a 7" display is 169 PPI, higher res than the Xoom, so should be excellent text quality for it's intended primary use, as an e-book device.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> Gotcha! Just breakin' chops. :lol:
> 
> $249 Nook Color specs, as posted here:
> 
> PCB: Foxconn ML1 S 94V-0
> CPU Processor: ARM Cortex A8-based Ti OMAP 3621 @ 800 MHz (same processor as Droid 2 and Droid X)
> GPU Processor: PowerVR SGX530 Graphics Rendering: Open GLES1.1/2.0 Hardware Scaling: 854x480 scaled to 1024x600 Video Formats: .3GP, .MP4, .3G2 ** Video Codecs: H.263, H.264, MPEG-4, ON2 VP7 ** Image Formats: JPEG, GIF, PNG, BMP ** (same GPU as Droid 2 and Droid X)
> RAM: 512MB Hynix H8MBX00U0MER-0EM MCM (Stacked Chips 2x256MB each die mDDR)
> Internal Flash: 8GB Sandisk SDIN4C1-8g
> Removable Flash: 32GB via microSDHC
> Radio: Chip ID Ti wl1271 (kernel reports wl1273) Chip supports bluetooth transmit/recieve and fm radio functions through the same antenna, but is not enabled in software drivers. Connectivity: 802.11b/g/n Security: WEP/WPA/WPA2/802.1x Mode: Infrastructure
> Display: 7" 1024x600 IPS Display w\VividView Cypress Semiconductor TTSP Gen 3 (TMA340) Touchscreen , kernel driver , reference LG Display LD070WS1 (SL)(02) LED Backlight Pixels per Inch: 169 Aspect Ratio: 16:9 Colors: 16 Million Viewing Angle: 178° (same as HTC 7 Surround and HTC 7 Mozart)
> Audio: Ti TLV320DAC3100 Codec 3.5mm Headset Jack (TRS 3-Pole) - no mic input Single Rear Speaker PWM Headphone Amp Headphone Detection Mic Amp and ADC (Mic input not available) Audio Formats: .3GP, .3G2, .MP4, .AMR, .MP3, .MID, .XMF, .MXMF, .RTTL, .OTA, .IMY, .WAV, .OGG, .ACC ** Audio Codecs: ACC, ACC+, AMR, MP3, MIDI, LPCM **
> Power Management: Texas Instruments TPS65921 PMIC Integrated Power Management IC with 3 DC/DC's, 4 LDO's, USB HS Transceiver
> Battery: "Barnes & Noble" labeled 3.7V 4000mAh 14.8Wh Li-ion battery Battery Life: ~8 hours
> Physical Specifications Dimensions: 8.1" (205mm) L x 5" (127mm) W x 0.48" (12.2mm) D Weight: ~15.8oz (~422g)
> Micro-B USB 2.0 High-Speed
> Accelerometer
> Input Virtual QWERTY Keyboard On-Screen Soft-Keys ** 'n' Home button Power\Lock button Volume Up\Down buttons
> 
> FWIW, 1024x600 on a 7" display is 169 PPI, higher res than the Xoom, so should be excellent text quality for it's intended primary use, as an e-book device.


Not to shabby for an e-reader. With this new development of app stores and what not, they may change some things around here and there. Anyone know if you can test drive these at the B&N stores?


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> Not to shabby for an e-reader. With this new development of app stores and what not, they may change some things around here and there. Anyone know if you can test drive these at the B&N stores?


They're on display and usable at the two B&N's near me. And double-check it before you buy, but I'm 99.9%% sure their non-holiday return policy is still 14-days, fully refundable. For pre-Christmas sales, you had until Jan 31 to return.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> You certainly can. They're on display and usable at the two B&N's near me. And double-check it before you buy, but I'm 99.9%% sure their non-holiday return policy is still 14-days, fully refundable.


I just want to see how it feels and runs. I'm thinking about going on a Tablet hunt this Wednesday to see what I can gather to post here.


----------



## Steve

_"At $249, the Nook Color looks to be the device to get for an Android WiFi tablet experience."_

That's a comment from a ZDNet e-mail newsletter I just received. I would have prefaced it with_ "If a 7" screen works for you, ..."_ 

And from an LATimes.com article:

_"Barnes & Noble also introduced on Monday an ad campaign that does not include the bookstores for which it is best known but positions the Nook Color as a tablet specifically made for book enthusiasts."_


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> _"At $249, the Nook Color looks to be the device to get for an Android WiFi tablet experience."_
> 
> That's a comment from a ZDNet e-mail newsletter I just received. I would have prefaced it with_ "If a 7" screen works for you, ..."_
> 
> And from an LATimes.com article:
> 
> _"Barnes & Noble also introduced on Monday an ad campaign that does not include the bookstores for which it is best known but positions the Nook Color as a tablet specifically made for book enthusiasts."_


So are they endorsing it's use of being rooted or are they possibly planning to release a WiFi update to change it to Android? New Model with Android 3? Oh the possibilities! :grin:


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> So are they endorsing it's use of being rooted or are they possibly planning to release a WiFi update to change it to Android? New Model with Android 3? Oh the possibilities! :grin:


Sounds to me like they're updating it to FroYo, but with their own GUI, like the phone manufacturers handle it. It'll happen wirelessly at some point, or you can force it here.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> Sounds to me like they're updating it to FroYo, but with their own GUI, like the phone manufacturers handle it. It'll happen wirelessly at some point, or you can force it here.


Hmmm, are there screenshots and video on the link? I can't view them at work but would be able to at home.


----------



## raott

Acer tablet is now for sale:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Acer+-+...577304&skuId=2512059&st=asus tablet&cp=1&lp=5

It has full USB. Anyone know if the USB port is actually active and usable? My understanding about when I had the Xoom is it would take a Honeycomb update to activate the USB port.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> Acer tablet is now for sale:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Acer+-+...577304&skuId=2512059&st=asus tablet&cp=1&lp=5
> 
> It has full USB. Anyone know if the USB port is actually active and usable? My understanding about when I had the Xoom is it would take a Honeycomb update to activate the USB port.


Supposedly on the Xoom has the inactive USB, and there is a workaround until it gets an update within the next week or so.

I'll have to run over and play with the Acer unit a bit...thanks. The manager at the nearby BB told me over this past weekend that he hoped to get his supply in tomorrow.


----------



## spartanstew

raott said:


> Acer tablet is now for sale:


The Asus Transformer should be on sale tomorrow at many locations.


----------



## AttiTech

spartanstew said:


> The Asus Transformer should be on sale tomorrow at many locations.


Good thing my Tablets extravaganza is on Wednesday! That's the one I'm most excited about!


----------



## AttiTech

http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=620

Just incase anyone wanted to look at used iPads


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=620
> 
> Just incase anyone wanted to look at used iPads


If I had any idea they were going to hold their value like that, I never would have waited a year. :nono2: Sigh.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> If I had any idea they were going to hold their value like that, I never would have waited a year. :nono2: Sigh.


I feel you on that one.

YET, geeks is a great place to find things that are decently priced and sometimes much cheaper. Been a member for 3 years and purchased a 1GB NVidia card, 2T HDD, and 4GB of RAM for $130 with the discounts they gave me on top of their deals. Fantastic deal to me.


----------



## Sixto

Steve said:


> If I had any idea they were going to hold their value like that, I never would have waited a year. :nono2: Sigh.


Yep, my whole dilemma with being without an iPad for a week was because I was shocked that my iPad1 sold so quickly.

The idea was that I'd list it on eBay and waste the $2 listing fee to just see if I could get an amount I was only dreaming about. If it didn't sell (which I expected) then I'd re-list and lower the price to a normal level, and have some time to pick up the iPad2.

Geez, the thing sold within hours, and then the mad scramble to find an iPad2 which took a week.

All good in the long run.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> The Asus Transformer should be on sale tomorrow at many locations.


Thank you sir.

I'll have to check around and see who has them to play with around here...the keyboard with extended battery is a nice touch - 16 hours of battery life is cool.


----------



## Drucifer

Ain't all tablets basically the same - a touch screen of various sizes. OTOH, their OS with their apps is probably what people are going to base their decision on. 

And like Tablets, I'm slightly confused on how many Tablet OS there are. 

And to add a side note - are Tablet OS upgradable?


----------



## AttiTech

Drucifer said:


> Ain't all tablets basically the same - a touch screen of various sizes. OTOH, their OS with their apps is probably what people are going to base their decision on.
> 
> And like Tablets, I'm slightly confused on how many Tablet OS there are.
> 
> And to add a side note - are Tablet OS upgradable?


Most all tablets have the same setup but some have special features that other's don't. Like replaceable batteries, what the memory is exandable up to with a microSD or SD slot, flash enabled and a lot can be upgraded yes. Depending on what's in them would depend on whether or not they would be ran on Honeycomb or Froyo usually. All the big name brands like Toshiba, Acer, Asus, Motorola, ect will have Honeycomb, the off brands and knock offs pretty much all have Froyo and the hardware is completely different from the name brands. If you're getting an Android tablet, you can pretty much be gaurenteed Tegra 2 and up to 32/64 MB of expandable storage with an HD display


----------



## Sixto

You guys are asking some good questions, and I have a few of my own, not knowing about anything other then the iPad.

Is it expected that every version of HoneyComb, on every tablet, will most likely be able to run the same applications, or do you need to worry whether your desired app will run on your specific hardware?

Who do you call for support, or where do you go for support, it seems like Google owns the OS, and then each manufacturer deals with the hardware, or is there one throat to choke if there's a problem?

How do OS upgrades work? Does every tablet with Honeycomb get the upgrade at the same time, or do you need to worry about your specific OS version for your specific hardware?

Do Apps need to be specifically coded for the HoneyComb tablet, or will the non-tablet Android versions run?

The reason that I ask is that with the iPad/iPad2 it seemed simple and I really didn't have to think about any of the stuff above. You buy the unit, if anything is wrong you go back to the Apple store or call, the App Store keeps everything current, iTunes keeps the OS current, and every iPhone app runs, and then there are iPad optimized Apps. It's all been very simple, and I'm curious how the other world operates.


----------



## Sixto

One more thing, how do backups and hardware upgrades work with non-iPad.

With the iPad, I backup the unit regularly with a simple iTunes sync, the full backup is stored in an encrypted file on my PC, all of the purchased Apps are saved on my PC, and if I ever lose my iPad, or if I upgrade to a later iPad, then I just plug in the new unit, and it automatically moves everything over to the new box.

When I upgraded from the iPad1 to the iPad2, I did an iTunes backup/sync, unplugged the iPad1, sold it, bought the iPad2, attached the iPad2, clicked restore, and I was done within minutes with all of the apps exactly as they were before.

How does this work with non-iPad tablets?


----------



## AttiTech

Sixto said:


> You guys are asking some good questions, and I have a few of my own, not knowing about anything other then the iPad.
> 
> Is it expected that every version of HoneyComb, on every tablet, will most likely be able to run the same applications, or do you need to worry whether your desired app will run on your specific hardware?
> 
> Who do you call for support, or where do you go for support, it seems like Google owns the OS, and then each manufacturer deals with the hardware, or is there one throat to choke if there's a problem?
> 
> How do OS upgrades work? Does every tablet with Honeycomb get the upgrade at the same time, or do you need to worry about your specific OS version for your specific hardware?
> 
> Do Apps need to be specifically coded for the HoneyComb tablet, or will the non-tablet Android versions run?
> 
> The reason that I ask is that with the iPad/iPad2 it seemed simple and I really didn't have to think about any of the stuff above. You buy the unit, if anything is wrong you go back to the Apple store or call, the App Store keeps everything current, iTunes keeps the OS current, and every iPhone app runs, and then there are iPad optimized Apps. It's all been very simple, and I'm curious how the other world operates.


Most likely I can see the manufacturor would be able to ts all the issues if you can't find it on here/the internet. If not they should have the # available from there.
As for updating the OS, I'd be willing to bet they would have an updated posted on their site that you would go to, manually install, and wait probably half of forever :lol:
I think apps are updating for Honeycomb and new ones are being built and designed for Honeycomb. I'm sure they have the back track capabilities to be run on Froyo and maybe Eclair, but since Honeycomb is the new kid on the block, it's the most likely for everyone to build for. The issue you normally run into with the apps are very specific updates to graphics or sound that an older version didn't have, so you couldn't run the app, or resolution. You mostly see the issue on phones more than the tablets.
For right now, the specs in the tablets being released now, is pretty much what you want with Honeycomb. I've heard that trying to run it on a Froyo tablet, especially the 7" tablets, it will have a helluva time running Honeycomb when it gets in the paces with multiple items.


----------



## AttiTech

Sixto said:


> One more thing, how do backups and hardware upgrades work with non-iPad.
> 
> With the iPad, I backup the unit regularly with a simple iTunes sync, the full backup is stored in an encrypted file on my PC, all of the purchased Apps are saved on my PC, and if I ever lose my iPad, or if I upgrade to a later iPad, then I just plug in the new unit, and it automatically moves everything over to the new box.
> 
> When I upgraded from the iPad1 to the iPad2, I did an iTunes backup/sync, unplugged the iPad1, sold it, bought the iPad2, attached the iPad2, clicked restore, and I was done with all of the apps as they were before.
> 
> How does this work with non-iPad tablets?


You should be able to download the app online on your computer, then through being sync'd to your wireless network will update it to your tablet.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> BTW, just noticed that B&N announced some Nook Color goodies today, including an update to Froyo (which I thought it already had :scratchin), Flash support and an app store! And for those that feel it matters, the NC has an SD card slot and appears as a USB mass storage device when connected to a PC.
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...gets_Froyo_update_and_app_store?taxonomyId=12


I have a NC rooted w/2.2 (Nookie-Froyo ROM) and for as little as I use it in my mind it's at least as good as the Galaxy Tab with one exception. No GPS. I've been seeing lots of TABS on eBay for $260-$275 and with the eBay 10% off deal I'm tempted to sell my Rooted Nook Color and get the TAB w/GPS. All the apps I (currently) need run fine on the 7" screen.


----------



## AttiTech

TBlazer07 said:


> I have a NC rooted w/2.2 (Nookie-Froyo ROM) and for as little as I use it in my mind it's at least as good as the Galaxy Tab with one exception. No GPS. I've been seeing lots of TABS on eBay for $260-$275 and with the eBay 10% off deal I'm tempted to sell my Rooted Nook Color and get the TAB w/GPS. All the apps I (currently) need run fine on the 7" screen.


Only thing I can't bring myself to do is purchase one with a 3G/4G whatever contract. I want it mostly just to say I have a 10.1" GPS/Video player in my car ( :lol: ) BUT I can't justify paying for a 2 year contract to get the discount then buying out of it, or sticking with it. I hate contracts of any kind and avoid monthly payments if at all possible.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Since 2.2 all of your "installed apps" were stored in the cloud. When you log into the device it'll bring your basic settings over and then start reinstalling your apps in the background.

When you purchase an app in the Android Market, it's available on whatever devices you own. I use the same apps across my phone, Nook Color and Xoom. I've moved from my Droid 1 to the Droid 2, coworkers go from Android phone to Android phone and everything moves in the cloud. It's all stored in your Google account. They never store anything locally.

One app runs anywhere. Android apps are coded to understand what size screens they're running on by sniffing the DPI info, so if it sees a tablet resolution it'll supply a tablet version if available. Many places just toss a different app at the tablet folks, which frustrates me but that's mostly lazy coding. They cross-compile the iPad app to "ANDROID TABLET HD VERSION" instead of writing it into the standard app.

Support is always to your manufacturer. Google's only responsible for the OS, not the implementation. If you use a device with a vanilla version of Android, you can get upgrades very quickly because there's no need to wait for the manufacturer to vet it. Upgrades don't happen across all devices because some manufacturers vet the software before they push it to the device. You get around that by downloading the software, putting it in a root directory and rebooting it. Voila, upgrade.

"Versions of Honeycomb" don't exist. There are different skins that manufacturers will inevitably put on them (see HTC, Motorola) but they're all Android 3.0 and any Android app will run on them.


----------



## RasputinAXP

TBlazer07 said:


> I have a NC rooted w/2.2 (Nookie-Froyo ROM) and for as little as I use it in my mind it's at least as good as the Galaxy Tab with one exception. No GPS. I've been seeing lots of TABS on eBay for $260-$275 and with the eBay 10% off deal I'm tempted to sell my Rooted Nook Color and get the TAB w/GPS. All the apps I (currently) need run fine on the 7" screen.


If I recall correctly, can't you throw CM7 on there (since it has the bluetooth drivers installed) and bluetooth a GPS to it?


----------



## Sixto

"RasputinAXP" said:


> Since 2.2 all of your "installed apps" were stored in the cloud....


Very interesting details. Thanks.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> [...] I've been seeing lots of TABS on eBay for $260-$275 and with the eBay 10% off deal I'm tempted to sell my Rooted Nook Color and get the TAB w/GPS. All the apps I (currently) need run fine on the 7" screen.


Samsung may be privy to the most non-Apple tablet user feedback among the competition, having sold quite a few Galaxy Tabs last year. It will be interesting to see the pricing on the forthcoming 10.1" Galaxy, because it's arguably the first true "second generation" Droid tablet we'll see.

I think it's interesting to note that like Apple, Sammy put a premium on weight and thickness for their second go-round. The Galaxy 10.1 is 599 grams and 8.6mm thick with a 6860mHa battery, vs. 610 grams, 8.8mm and 6930mHa for the iPad2.

Looks like the competing Honeycomb 10.1 inch tablets are mostly 10%-20% heavier and thicker.

Also interesting to see that like Apple, Samsung saw no need to include an SD card slot in their second generation product.


----------



## Steve

According to this chart, I'm trying to figure out how the new [strike]Asus[/strike] Acer Iconia can claim 10 hours of battery life with a *3260* mAh battery, wifi, 3g and the same CPU as everyone else. Either that chart is wrong, or the Iconia screen is going to be pretty dim. Just my .02.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> According to this chart, I'm trying to figure out how the new Asus can claim 10 hours of battery life with a *3260* mAh battery, wifi, *3g* and the same CPU as everyone else. Either that chart is wrong, or the Asus screen is going to be pretty dim. Just my .02.


Not sure about the 3G / 10 hour part being considered when they came up with that number....but the keyboard battery supposedly adds another 6-8 hours, and trickle charges the tablet when connected...so the combined time is impressive.

Then when you take it to go as a tablet only, you always have a fully-charged device.


----------



## raott

Sony jumping in. Not alot of detail on specs.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201104/11-055E/index.html


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> According to this chart, I'm trying to figure out how the new [strike]Asus[/strike] Acer Iconia can claim 10 hours of battery life with a *3260* mAh battery, wifi, 3g and the same CPU as everyone else. Either that chart is wrong, or the Iconia screen is going to be pretty dim. Just my .02.


Misspoke above. Meant to say Acer, the one that went on sale yesterday, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Stuart Sweet said:


> The whole thing makes me wonder if the future of Android tablets is in subsidized or ad-supported devices. Get a decent-sized, decent-powered device in someone's hands for $50 and make up the cost in app sales, e-book sales, in-device advertising, etc.


Amazon has started doing that with sponsored screensavers on their Kindle (Link) so I can see tablets going in that direction.

They also give you the choice between the subsidized price and full price. If you don't want ads in the screensaver you don't have to get them.

If they had a subsidized tablet in the sub $100 range I might actually consider getting one. 

Mike


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> Sony jumping in. Not alot of detail on specs.
> 
> http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201104/11-055E/index.html


Knowing Sony, I'm sure they will be top-notch from a construction standpoint. Will be interesting to how they're priced, vs. the competition.


----------



## AttiTech

Mike Bertelson said:


> Amazon has started doing that with sponsored screensavers on their Kindle (Link) so I can see tablets going in that direction.
> 
> They also give you the choice between the subsidized price and full price. If you don't want ads in the screensaver you don't have to get them.
> 
> If they had a subsidized tablet in the sub $100 range I might actually consider getting one.
> 
> Mike


Depending on how annoying the advertisements really were would depend on whether or not I would consider purchasing one or not.


----------



## Steve

Mike Bertelson said:


> If they had a subsidized tablet in the sub $100 range I might actually consider getting one.


Another approach could be the one Google is rumored to be taking with their forthcoming Chrome laptop:

_"According to our source, Google plans to make the notebooks available for $10-$20 a month per user, and will provide hardware refreshes as they are released as part of the package, and will replace faulty hardware for the life of the subscription. On top of this, Google will make the devices available for a one time payment as a normal retailer would [*more*]"_


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> Another approach could be the one Google is rumored to be taking with their forthcoming Chrome laptop:
> 
> _"According to our source, Google plans to make the notebooks available for $10-$20 a month per user, and will provide hardware refreshes as they are released as part of the package, and will replace faulty hardware for the life of the subscription. On top of this, Google will make the devices available for a one time payment as a normal retailer would [*more*]"_


 That's a weird one, having a monthly subscription to a Google Notebook. I'm unsure of how I feel about this, but at the same time it's pretty awesome.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mike Bertelson said:


> Amazon has started doing that with sponsored screensavers on their Kindle (Link) so I can see tablets going in that direction.
> 
> They also give you the choice between the subsidized price and full price. If you don't want ads in the screensaver you don't have to get them.
> 
> If they had a subsidized tablet in the sub $100 range I might actually consider getting one.
> 
> Mike


Good points.

I think they're looking for subsidized alternatives at the lower price points. There's a potential market there based on price alone.

The regular tablets will be regular tablets.


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good points.
> 
> I think they're looking for subsidized alternatives at the lower price points. There's a potential market there based on price alone.
> 
> The regular tablets will be regular tablets.


Would easily put hundreds if not thousands more into peoples homes, and then from there it spreads like wildfire by word of mouth. I think it would be a smart move, just not sure how smart considering I don't own muti-million (or billion for that matter) companies :lol:


----------



## Rich

BubblePuppy said:


> I reread the op, I was hoping this thread would be about users experience with the different tablet types.


When I started this thread I expected to see the new tablets come out faster than they have. I'm still fence sitting. Kinda hard to get user's experience with only two really viable tablets out so far. I've had both the Xoom and the iPad and I kinda liked the Xoom better. But the idea of not being able to change the battery in the Xoom kinda bothers me.



> But unfortunately it has deteriorated into I vs them, as all threads of this nature do, and the comments about individual(s) really don't help.


Chris did post a warning about the arguments.



> Perhaps someone with first hand experience with the other new tablets could start posting so this thread will get back on track.


That's what I'm waiting for. Much as I dislike Toshiba products, the ability to change batteries sounds like it might be a good choice, but I'd really have to try one. I'm also waiting for the Acer to come out. And, kinda waiting for the prices to drop.

I think those of us that are disinterested in the iPad vs everything else argument will have to wait a bit longer. Have patience.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Saw that - oh the difference punctuation can make... ... 1/2 inch thick (0.55 inches) seems to be commonplace in the latest Androids coming out.
> 
> Since Lenovo makes the Thinkpads...wonder if their intended market is more the business users. :shrug:


I've got a Lenovo laptop. Kinda pricey, but a good solid computer. My wife also has the one meant for business. I can never remember which is which, but we have one Thinkpad and one Ideapad. The wife's is really a powerful computer.

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Lenovo also has a consumer line, it's less commonly seen in the US but you can find them at Frys and Office Depot.


----------



## Rich

TBlazer07 said:


> From "Compute!" Magazine, March 1988


In '92 I had a Mac "laptop" that was a lot bigger than that. I was not fond of lugging that monster back and forth to work. And it only had a monochrome screen.

Rich


----------



## Rich

AttiTech said:


> Another quick thought here, has anyone played with the very cheap versions of all these? The 7" tablets with Android 2.2 on them? Saw some for around $125 and thought it would be a fun toy for on the side when I purchase my wifes 10.1 tablet.


Yup, sucked big time. Waste of money.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Supposedly on the Xoom has the inactive USB, and there is a workaround until it gets an update within the next week or so.
> 
> I'll have to run over and play with the Acer unit a bit...thanks. The manager at the nearby BB told me over this past weekend that he hoped to get his supply in tomorrow.


I'm on my way to a BB to buy the Acer right now...I'll be back.

Rich


----------



## AttiTech

rich584 said:


> Yup, sucked big time. Waste of money.
> 
> Rich


Where did you get to test it at?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I'm on my way to a BB to buy the Acer right now...I'll be back.
> 
> Rich


Great - looking forward to the "report".


----------



## FHSPSU67

Another spreadsheet. This one from Zamdroidz.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArwhISktbEnTdEVLNy1XTEVlMmp5bC1ycVZkUGxTU2c&hl=en#gid=0


----------



## RasputinAXP

Not from Google. From a guy who posted it to Google Docs.


----------



## FHSPSU67

RasputinAXP said:


> Not from Google. From a guy who posted it to Google Docs.


Found my error almost immediately & corrected same. Thanks


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> Another spreadsheet. This one from Zamdroidz.
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArwhISktbEnTdEVLNy1XTEVlMmp5bC1ycVZkUGxTU2c&hl=en#gid=0


Thank you.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Neat YouTube videos.
Eee Pad Transformer:
Hardware:




Software:




and a lot of other videos, some quite funny


----------



## FHSPSU67

This Eee Pad Transformer is making me forget all about the XOOM, but most places seem to be already sold out, actually a good thing, because I'm in no hurry and I won't buy until I can hold it in my hands and play with it. I also want to see the Toshiba.


----------



## Rich

AttiTech said:


> Where did you get to test it at?


They were at an Office Depot. Resistive screens. Not fast. Cheap, tho. I never considered the Nook. I don't even recall the names of them. Cheap is cheap, tho.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Great - looking forward to the "report".


Got the Acer. 14 days to play with it. Looks like a Xoom in many respects. It does have a docking station port on it. I've gotta let it charge for at least four hours, so I'll probably get to it tomorrow. $450. I did play a bit with one at the store, but I started to draw a crowd. The GUI looks identical to the Xoom, which I expected. Couldn't check out the apps because you have to set up an account first. Oddly, seemed to be made of the same material as the Xoom, which was right next to it. One guy asked me, "If it's the same as the Xoom, what's the point?" My reply was to save $150. I'll know more by tomorrow.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> The whole thing makes me wonder if the future of Android tablets is in subsidized or ad-supported devices. Get a decent-sized, decent-powered device in someone's hands for $50 and make up the cost in app sales, e-book sales, in-device advertising, etc.


I do see a lot of ads on my Droid, you might have a point.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> Got the Acer. 14 days to play with it. Looks like a Xoom in many respects. It does have a docking station port on it. I've gotta let it charge for at least four hours, so I'll probably get to it tomorrow. $450. I did play a bit with one at the store, but I started to draw a crowd. The GUI looks identical to the Xoom, which I expected. Couldn't check out the apps because you have to set up an account first. Oddly, seemed to be made of the same material as the Xoom, which was right next to it. One guy asked me, "If it's the same as the Xoom, what's the point?" My reply was to save $150. I'll know more by tomorrow.
> 
> Rich


Rich - is there two full sized USB ports? I saw conflicting info on that. If so, can you let us know tomorrow if those ports are active, ie you can plug a thumb drive into it and open up a file from it?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> This Eee Pad Transformer is making me forget all about the XOOM, but most places seem to be already sold out, actually a good thing, because I'm in no hurry and I won't buy until I can hold it in my hands and play with it. I also want to see the Toshiba.





rich584 said:


> Got the Acer. 14 days to play with it. Looks like a Xoom in many respects. It does have a docking station port on it. I've gotta let it charge for at least four hours, so I'll probably get to it tomorrow. $450. I did play a bit with one at the store, but I started to draw a crowd. The GUI looks identical to the Xoom, which I expected. Couldn't check out the apps because you have to set up an account first. Oddly, seemed to be made of the same material as the Xoom, which was right next to it. One guy asked me, "If it's the same as the Xoom, what's the point?" My reply was to save $150. I'll know more by tomorrow.
> 
> Rich


This is good information guys!


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Rich - is there two full sized USB ports? I saw conflicting info on that. If so, can you let us know tomorrow if those ports are active, ie you can plug a thumb drive into it and open up a file from it?


I will.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> I will.
> 
> Rich


Actually, I think I'm getting the Acer mixed up with the Asus. I believe the Asus has the two whereas the Acer has one.

Still interested if the Acer's port is full sized and will read a file from a thumb drive.

Thanks


----------



## Chris Blount

This should make people here happy:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/26/android-jumps-past-ios-in-overall-u-s-smartphone-usage/


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> This Eee Pad Transformer is making me forget all about the XOOM, but most places seem to be already sold out, actually a good thing, because I'm in no hurry and I won't buy until I can hold it in my hands and play with it. I also want to see the Toshiba.


I kinda think that the Eee Pad is a bit too much like a laptop. Them, we've got. I do want to see the Toshiba too. I also want to know how much the battery for the Toshiba costs to replace.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> This should make people here happy:
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/26/android-jumps-past-ios-in-overall-u-s-smartphone-usage/


Now you just know I'm _<cough>_ *not* going to comment on that... :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I kinda think that the Eee Pad is a bit too much like a laptop. Them, we've got. I do want to see the Toshiba too. I also want to know how much the battery for the Toshiba costs to replace.
> 
> Rich


Some will welcome the laptop similarity where it then becomes a tablet, others might not. The Toshiba replacement battery was seen in the $89 range.


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> This should make people here happy:
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/26/android-jumps-past-ios-in-overall-u-s-smartphone-usage/


I'm not surprised. I like my Droid better than the wife's iPhone, but I've got Verizon and she's got AT&T and that is a big factor. Much as I dislike Verizon, I do like their network.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Some will welcome the laptop similarity where it then becomes a tablet, others might not. The Toshiba replacement battery was seen in the $89 range.


Can't beat that price. I thought it was coming out today.

Rich


----------



## Mike Bertelson

rich584 said:


> I'm not surprised. I like my Droid better than the wife's iPhone, but I've got Verizon and she's got AT&T and that is a big factor. Much as I dislike Verizon, I do like their network.
> 
> Rich


I'm not surprised just because of the sheer numbers of different model phones on multiple carriers.

I have both phones but prefer my Android. The wife now uses the iPhone. :grin:

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Can't beat that price. I thought it was coming out today.
> 
> Rich


The thing I read was a June release on the Toshiba, with a chance of late May at some retailers.

Yeah, having the ability for a replacement battery, and that only being $89 is an attractive selling point. The tablet itself is also getting some early reviews that are positive.


----------



## Rich

Mike Bertelson said:


> I'm not surprised just because of the sheer numbers of different model phones on multiple carriers.
> 
> I have both phone but prefer my Android. The wife now uses the iPhone. :grin:
> 
> Mike


My wife will be getting the iPhone5 scheduled for Sept. release. I want to see how that works. And if they let her put it on Verizon. AT&T reception around here isn't good.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The thing I read was a June release on the Toshiba, with a chance of late May at some retailers.
> 
> Yeah, having the ability for a replacement battery, and that only being $89 is an attractive selling point. The tablet itself is also getting some early reviews that are positive.


I just called Toshiba and they have no idea when it will be released. Guess I'll just play with the Acer and, if I don't fall in love with it, take it back and wait for the Toshiba. That whole battery thing bothers me. Greatly. I don't want pay a lot for one of these things and find out that a battery replacement costs half the price I paid for the tablet.

Rich


----------



## FHSPSU67

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Some will welcome the laptop similarity where it then becomes a tablet, others might not. The Toshiba replacement battery was seen in the $89 range.


I like the ASUS having a same-size battery in the docking station/keyboard giving twice (or nearly 2X) the available time w/o power hooked up. Can't find whether the ASUS batteries are user-replaceable but I found the batteries selling for $62 off a link on this Computer Shopper review (didn't even know CS was still around
http://computershopper.com/laptops/reviews/asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-16gb

Next post in this thread will be #600.


----------



## Groundhog45

Thanks for starting this thread, Rich. I've been following since the first thread. Much more interesting than the Tivo discussion, and something I can see wanting to get sometime in the future. Don't need/want one yet.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I just called Toshiba and they have no idea when it will be released. Guess I'll just play with the Acer and, if I don't fall in love with it, take it back and wait for the Toshiba. That whole battery thing bothers me. Greatly. I don't want pay a lot for one of these things and find out that a battery replacement costs half the price I paid for the tablet.
> 
> Rich


Agree. The $89 replacement battery price seems quite reasonable, and of course gives you the warm fuzzy that if your original one croaks - you don't have to ship the whole thing to who-knows-where and wait a month to get it back.

As for the Toshiba available date...you get mixed information on searches...but I did read more than one place that availability would be in June.


FHSPSU67 said:


> I like the ASUS having a same-size battery in the docking station/keyboard giving twice (or nearly 2X) the available time w/o power hooked up. Can't find whether the ASUS batteries are user-replaceable but I found the batteries selling for $62 off a link on this Computer Shopper review (didn't even know CS was still around
> http://computershopper.com/laptops/reviews/asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-16gb


I don't think you can replace the ASUS batteries in the unit...but maybe the keyboard ones you can... :shrug:


----------



## FHSPSU67

Thanks hdtvfan. I suspect you are correct, though it seems strange that the Toshiba may be the only one with a user replaceable battery. Maybe it's the only one with a battery that wears out:lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> Thanks hdtvfan. I suspect you are correct, though it seems strange that the Toshiba may be the only one with a user replaceable battery. Maybe it's the only one with a battery that wears out:lol:


Lets hope not.


----------



## AttiTech

FHSPSU67 said:


> Thanks hdtvfan. I suspect you are correct, though it seems strange that the Toshiba may be the only one with a user replaceable battery. Maybe it's the only one with a battery that wears out:lol:


:lol: I've liked what Toshiba has released in the last few years and I hope they keep it going with this tablet, whenever that may be.


----------



## bobukcat

"Chris Blount" said:


> This should make people here happy:
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/26/android-jumps-past-ios-in-overall-u-s-smartphone-usage/


I don't know, I was happy about it but at this rate I'm going to have to switch from Android to something else just to maintain my status as a contrarian amongst my iPhone weilding friends! ;-)


----------



## AttiTech

bobukcat said:


> I don't know, I was happy about it but at this rate I'm going to have to switch from Android to something else just to maintain my status as a contrarian amongst my iPhone weilding friends! ;-)


The Droid is mightier than the sword.


----------



## spartanstew

spartanstew said:


> The Asus Transformer should be on sale tomorrow at many locations.





AttiTech said:


> Good thing my Tablets extravaganza is on Wednesday! That's the one I'm most excited about!


Looks like tomorrow might be too late.

Transformer Sold Out

And, *Engadget reports that Amazon's 'in stock' page for the EeePad Transformer hit 'out of stock' status in just a few minutes. Target is also out of stock and over on Best Buy's website, the device is listed as being on back order. Delivery there is scheduled for 1-2 weeks*, from HERE

But HERE'S an unboxing video for you.


----------



## Sixto

spartanstew said:


> ... But HERE'S an unboxing video for you.


Interesting video. Some cool stuff coming out.


----------



## spartanstew

The video made me realize I've been pronouncing ASUS wrong for years.


----------



## Sixto

spartanstew said:


> The video made me realize I've been pronouncing ASUS wrong for years.


Me too!


----------



## raott

spartanstew said:


> Looks like tomorrow might be too late.
> 
> Transformer Sold Out
> 
> And, *Engadget reports that Amazon's 'in stock' page for the EeePad Transformer hit 'out of stock' status in just a few minutes. Target is also out of stock and over on Best Buy's website, the device is listed as being on back order. Delivery there is scheduled for 1-2 weeks*, from HERE
> 
> But HERE'S an unboxing video for you.


This is good news for all Honeycomb users as it will help kickstart some Apps being put out/updated for tablet.


----------



## raott

Sixto said:


> Interesting video. Some cool stuff coming out.


It appears the two USB ports are only included in the keyboard docking station on the Transformer.


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> This should make people here happy:
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/26/android-jumps-past-ios-in-overall-u-s-smartphone-usage/


It should make Apple users happy as well. Competition is good for all consumers and hopefully will drive signficant improvments to ios and the next Iphone which IMO (with two Ipad2s an Iphone 4 and an HTC EVO in my house), has fallen well behind Android.


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> Got the Acer. 14 days to play with it. Looks like a Xoom in many respects. It does have a docking station port on it. I've gotta let it charge for at least four hours, so I'll probably get to it tomorrow. $450. I did play a bit with one at the store, but I started to draw a crowd. The GUI looks identical to the Xoom, which I expected. Couldn't check out the apps because you have to set up an account first. Oddly, seemed to be made of the same material as the Xoom, which was right next to it. One guy asked me, "If it's the same as the Xoom, what's the point?" My reply was to save $150. I'll know more by tomorrow.
> 
> Rich


Rich, are you a Pandora or Sirius/Xm subscriber? If so, can you let us know if those Apps work correctly now in Honeycomb?

When I had the Xoom for those couple of days, neither worked on Honeycomb.


----------



## Sixto

raott said:


> It should make Apple users happy as well. Competition is good for all consumers and hopefully will drive significant improvements to ios and the next iPhone which IMO (with two Ipad2s an Iphone 4 and an HTC EVO in my house), has fallen well behind Android.


Yes, will be interesting to see what gets announced for iOS 5 in June at the WWDC.


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> I like the ASUS having a same-size battery in the docking station/keyboard giving twice (or nearly 2X) the available time w/o power hooked up. Can't find whether the ASUS batteries are user-replaceable but I found the batteries selling for $62 off a link on this Computer Shopper review (didn't even know CS was still around
> http://computershopper.com/laptops/reviews/asus-eee-pad-transformer-tf101-16gb
> 
> Next post in this thread will be #600.


From the sparse info in the manual (what a joke) it would seem that the Acer with the optional keyboard charges the battery in much the same way.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Groundhog45 said:


> Thanks for starting this thread, Rich. I've been following since the first thread. Much more interesting than the Tivo discussion, and something I can see wanting to get sometime in the future. Don't need/want one yet.


You're welcome. Yeah, at least we can get our hands on these things. That TiVo seems like it might be made of vapor ware......:lol:

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

raott said:


> It should make Apple users happy as well. Competition is good for all consumers and hopefully will drive signficant improvments to ios and the next Iphone which IMO (with two Ipad2s an Iphone 4 and an HTC EVO in my house), has fallen well behind Android.


I thought the same thing but then realized one flaw. Apple drove everyone else to compete with them in the tablet market. Apple may improve a few things but then go off in another direction. It seems Apple beats to their own drum so its hard to say if all of the tablets flooding the market will make much of a difference in what Apple does.


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Rich, are you a Pandora or Sirius/Xm subscriber? If so, can you let us know if those Apps work correctly now in Honeycomb?
> 
> When I had the Xoom for those couple of days, neither worked on Honeycomb.


I didn't see either. But I wasn't looking for them either. I do know you can't stream NetFlix on the Acer.

I'll look in a bit and get back to you. On the subject of USB ports, the Acer has a regular port and a mini-port.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> From the sparse info in the manual (what a joke) it would seem that the Acer with the optional keyboard charges the battery in much the same way.
> 
> Rich


I didn't realize the Acer had an optional keyboard. I'm not seeing much info online about it. Is it for sale now?


----------



## BudShark

raott said:


> It should make Apple users happy as well. Competition is good for all consumers and hopefully will drive signficant improvments to ios and the next Iphone which IMO (with two Ipad2s an Iphone 4 and an HTC EVO in my house), has fallen well behind Android.


I would say yes, it has fallen behind. But its also a >1 year old operating system. Froyo, Gingerbread, and Honeycomb have all come out since iOS 4. Apple makes major jumps with its Operating Systems.

Considering the history of iOS 2, 3, and 4 and what they brought to the table, and the fact that 4 is now over a year old... all signs point to 5 being major.

Its clear that the two will continue to leapfrog - albeit with different intentions and goals. At the end of the day they are both tablet/smartphone OSs and thus compete.

But to your point, I think the delayed iOS5/next gen iPhone are all very very clear indicators Apple feels pressured to do something major which is good for everyone. What that is? Who knows. What that isn't will be to turn iOS into an Android type system. They won't be open up the file system, they won't expose everything or allow sideloading of apps, or the like. Apple is Apple, Google is Google, HTC is HTC, Samsung is Wanna-Be Apple (haha)... and that is all good for everyone. There obviously is enough room in the market for everyone. I don't think you can argue with Apple's business success or Androids penetration success.


----------



## bobukcat

raott said:


> Rich, are you a Pandora or Sirius/Xm subscriber? If so, can you let us know if those Apps work correctly now in Honeycomb?
> 
> When I had the Xoom for those couple of days, neither worked on Honeycomb.


I'm not Rich but I am a Xoom owner - the Pandora application still force closes even though the latest release says they fixed a problem with it F/Cing on the Xoom. A quick search reveals that some people have it working and some don't but it appears that it has never worked on the Wi-Fi only version.  There is an apk on XDA developers that appears to work fine but only displays in portrait mode. I would hope Pandora developers are working on this!

I've not tried the Sirius/XM application on it but that application was always buggy on my Droid but I've admittedly not tried it in months.


----------



## Rich

OK, here are my thoughts on the Acer so far. Physically, it seems to be laid out better than the Xoom. It has a regular USB port and a mini-port. The "On" button is in a much better spot. It has a docking station port for a keyboard that sounds like it will also charge the battery, as the Asus does. 

The charger has to be plugged into a wall receptacle, it comes with a USB to mini-USB cord. 

I went thru a lot of the apps and it does have a lot more apps than the Xoom I had did at that time, but I'm sure the Xoom has the same apps as the Acer does now. I couldn't get NetFlix to stream. I really don't see much difference between the Xoom and the Acer, aside from the $150 difference in price.

I do plan to use it for a few days, but I can see myself bringing it back. I'm not thrilled with it. So far. I'm going to try and use it as I use my Droid and see if it will do what the Droid does.

The dialog box that came up when I tried to stream NetFlix said that streaming could only be accomplished using Windows or the Mac OS. I did have NetFlix streaming on the iPad I had.

I'll be happy to answer any questions concerning the Acer over the next couple days. Fire away!

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> OK, here are my thoughts on the Acer so far. Physically, it seems to be laid out better than the Xoom. It has a regular USB port and a mini-port. The "On" button is in a much better spot. It has a docking station port for a keyboard that sounds like it will also charge the battery, as the Asus does.
> 
> The charger has to be plugged into a wall receptacle, it comes with a USB to mini-USB cord.
> 
> I went thru a lot of the apps and it does have a lot more apps than the Xoom I had did at that time, but I'm sure the Xoom has the same apps as the Acer does now. I couldn't get NetFlix to stream. I really don't see much difference between the Xoom and the Acer, aside from the $150 difference in price.
> 
> I do plan to use it for a few days, but I can see myself bringing it back. I'm not thrilled with it. So far. I'm going to try and use it as I use my Droid and see if it will do what the Droid does.
> 
> The dialog box that came up when I tried to stream NetFlix said that streaming could only be accomplished using Windows or the Mac OS. I did have NetFlix streaming on the iPad I had.
> 
> I'll be happy to answer any questions concerning the Acer over the next couple days. Fire away!
> 
> Rich


Yep, Netflix doesn't "officially" stream to any Android devices at this time but some people had / have (I haven't checked recently if it's still working on those devices) it working on some devices but not many. Some people want to blame it on DRM, and maybe that is a hold-up but seeing as how it streams instead of saving the content that seems like something they should able to resolve pretty easily.

As I posted on Netflix's FB discussion page though, if they don't get on the ball quick someone else (Blockbuster, RedTube, ???) is going to beat them to the punch and they risk alienating a significant portion of the mobile device market, many of whom are probably already Netflix subs.


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> I didn't realize the Acer had an optional keyboard. I'm not seeing much info online about it. Is it for sale now?


Can't find it on the Acer website. Now I find out there are two models and the other model seems to come with the keyboard. Costs about $550. So another $100 for the keyboard. And the website says nothing about a 10 battery life. Looks more like six hours. I can't find the keyboard by itself.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I'm not Rich but I am a Xoom owner - the Pandora application still force closes even though the latest release says they fixed a problem with it F/Cing on the Xoom. A quick search reveals that some people have it working and some don't but it appears that it has never worked on the Wi-Fi only version.  There is an apk on XDA developers that appears to work fine but only displays in portrait mode. I would hope Pandora developers are working on this!
> 
> I've not tried the Sirius/XM application on it but that application was always buggy on my Droid but I've admittedly not tried it in months.


I've got it working on the Acer. Seems fine. Have you ever gotten NetFlix to stream content? I don't have a Sirius account, even tho my cars are enabled for it.

The sound on the Acer doesn't seem to be as good as the Xoom's.

Rich


----------



## raott

BudShark said:


> But to your point, I think the delayed iOS5/next gen iPhone are all very very clear indicators Apple feels pressured to do something major which is good for everyone. What that is? Who knows. What that isn't will be to turn iOS into an Android type system. They won't be open up the file system, they won't expose everything or allow sideloading of apps, or the like.


I agree, I think ios5 will be a huge leap. If I had to predict, I think you will see a very basic file system (like a simple "my documents" folder you can put files into), an integrated navigation system similar to google navigation, widgets (or something similar) and a vastly improved notification system. I would also hope for a bigger screen on the iphone, ie 4 inches or so.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Yep, Netflix doesn't "officially" stream to any Android devices at this time but some people had / have (I haven't checked recently if it's still working on those devices) it working on some devices but not many. Some people want to blame it on DRM, and maybe that is a hold-up but seeing as how it streams instead of saving the content that seems like something they should able to resolve pretty easily.
> 
> As I posted on Netflix's FB discussion page though, if they don't get on the ball quick someone else (Blockbuster, RedTube, ???) is going to beat them to the punch and they risk alienating a significant portion of the mobile device market, many of whom are probably already Netflix subs.


NetFlix would be a big deal for me.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> NetFlix would be a big deal for me.
> 
> Rich


Rich - I know some of the other areas the Ipad2 is lacking in may be showstoppers for you, I will say the Netflix App with the Ipad2 works very well.


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Rich, are you a Pandora or Sirius/Xm subscriber? If so, can you let us know if those Apps work correctly now in Honeycomb?
> 
> When I had the Xoom for those couple of days, neither worked on Honeycomb.


Pandora seems to be working correctly, but the speakers on the Acer are kinda shabby compared to the Xoom or the iPhone. I'm gonna get my headset and try that...oh, yeah, big difference. Sound is fine on my headset.

I'm not big on music, but this sounds pretty good. The volume control isn't very good, tho. I just played with it and it seems to be working better now.

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Rich - I know some of the other areas the Ipad2 is lacking in may be showstoppers for you, I will say the Netflix App with the Ipad2 works very well.


I had the iPad1 and was very happy with the way NetFlix played on that.

I just figured out what was going on with the sound. When the screen goes dark the volume goes up as high as it can. I just adjusted the screen so it stays on for 30 minutes and it's holding the volume correctly now.

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Rich - I know some of the other areas the Ipad2 is lacking in may be showstoppers for you, I will say the Netflix App with the Ipad2 works very well.


The only thing that's really stopping me from getting an iPad2 is the lack of availability. I was using Macs before most folks were and if they hadn't been so expensive, I'd still be using them. I had a good eight year (give or take a couple years, my memory is kinda shot, I was a drinking a lot at the time) run on the Macs and loved them.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether I want an iPad or an Android tablet. By the time I get that figured out, I'm pretty sure the iPad3 will be out. Once I settle on which one I want, I'll probably keep it for a few years. I really like my Droid X and finally have a phone that I like. I've had cell phones since '92 and this is the first one that I've really, really liked.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

I'm guessing this is just a case that holds the XOOM and the BT Keyboard and not an actual dock like the Transformer but I could be wrong.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> I'm guessing this is just a case that holds the XOOM and the BT Keyboard and not an actual dock [...]


Ditto this Logitech iPad2 case/keyboard combo.


----------



## RasputinAXP

bobukcat said:


> RedTube


Er. Doubt that. YouTube, you meant, I hope? RedTube's not...for wide consumption, I'd assume. Or maybe it is. Maybe not mobile and in public though.


----------



## trdrjeff

Steve said:


> Ditto this Logitech iPad2 case/keyboard combo.


Zagg must have figured they could sell a lot more of these by licensing them to Logitech?


----------



## Steve

trdrjeff said:


> Zagg must have figured they could sell a lot more of these by licensing them to Logitech?


Ya. Logitech provides worldwide distribution channels. Since iPad is international, the deal helps get Zagg 
products to customers they're not able to reach on their own.


----------



## bobukcat

"RasputinAXP" said:


> Er. Doubt that. YouTube, you meant, I hope? RedTube's not...for wide consumption, I'd assume. Or maybe it is. Maybe not mobile and in public though.


Actually I meant RedBox - had to look up their name just now as I never use them, just walk past the machines at Kroger's.

I did get Pandora working on my Xoom after a reboot but its not exactly optimized for the larger display.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I'm guessing this is just a case that holds the XOOM and the BT Keyboard and not an actual dock like the Transformer but I could be wrong.


The Xoom must use a BT keyboard, there's no place else to hook up a keyboard if I remember correctly. The more I use the Acer, the more I like it. I can't believe how many more apps were added since I had the Xoom. But I gotta call up the company and see how much a battery replacement costs. I tend to keep things that I consider serviceable and I don't plan on switching every year.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Actually I meant RedBox - had to look up their name just now as I never use them, just walk past the machines at Kroger's.
> 
> I did get Pandora working on my Xoom after a reboot *but its not exactly optimized for the larger display.*


There's an understatement! At least it works. I have a feeling a lot of the apps we're seeing are made for the Android phone screens. I downloaded a couple of dictionaries and they were dwarfed by the screen of the Acer.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> There's an understatement! At least it works. I have a feeling a lot of the apps we're seeing are made for the Android phone screens. I downloaded a couple of dictionaries and they were dwarfed by the screen of the Acer.
> 
> Rich


Not unique to the Android tablets. I have two apps on my Ipad that are clearly optimized for the Iphone and look terrible on the Ipad. Cnet is one and the facebook App is another.


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> The Xoom must use a BT keyboard, there's no place else to hook up a keyboard if I remember correctly. The more I use the Acer, the more I like it. I can't believe how many more apps were added since I had the Xoom. But I gotta call up the company and see how much a battery replacement costs. I tend to keep things that I consider serviceable and I don't plan on switching every year.
> 
> Rich


It does have a MicroUSB port on it but I certainly haven't tried hooking up anything other than my computer to it - I doubt a regular USB keyboard would work connected to it.


----------



## bobukcat

Looks like a minor update is coming to the Xoom tomorrow, no SD Card support or anything major like that..... 

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/04/27/breaking-motorola-xoom-update-goes-live-tomorrow/


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> It does have a MicroUSB port on it but I certainly haven't tried hooking up anything other than my computer to it - I doubt a regular USB keyboard would work connected to it.


I know I saw BT keyboards in the Apple Store. $69, I think. I've never read about connecting a keyboard any other way than Blue Tooth to the Xoom. If I were to keep the Acer, I'd probably go with a BT keyboard.

By any chance do you know how big a micro SD card should be to be used with these tablets? I'm imagine that they'd all take about the same capacity mini card. Can't find anything on the Acer site at all. No phone numbers and they have chats from 2am to 5am CST. I gotta be able to ask makers of computers questions from time to time and I don't even see how to reach these people. Not getting a good feeling about this.

Rich


----------



## RasputinAXP

To start nothing bigger than 16 or 32GB; SDHC's top limit is 32 I think, though I could be mistaken.


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> To start nothing bigger than 16 or 32GB; SDHC's top limit is 32 I think, though I could be mistaken.


Thanx. Do you happen to know the difference between the SD and SDHC cards? I gather they are the same size physically? The documentation is very poor and just says "micro SD card" goes...and points to the location.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> Thanx. Do you happen to know the difference between the SD and SDHC cards? I gather they are the same size physically? The documentation is very poor and just says "micro SD card" goes...and points to the location.
> 
> Rich


They are the same size physically but the official max for SD is 2GB (although I've seen 4GB ones), anything above that will be SDHC (High Capacity) and though just about anything modern will support the SDHC cards a device does need to know how to address the HC cards - it is not the same as standard SD. The current max capacity for an SDHC card is 32GB as Rasputin mentioned - but not all devices that support SDHC have support for 32GB.


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> I know I saw BT keyboards in the Apple Store. $69, I think. I've never read about connecting a keyboard any other way than Blue Tooth to the Xoom. If I were to keep the Acer, I'd probably go with a BT keyboard.
> 
> Rich


I use the Motorola BT keyboard with my Xoom and really like it.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> They are the same size physically but the official max for SD is 2GB (although I've seen 4GB ones), anything above that will be SDHC (High Capacity) and though just about anything modern will support the SDHC cards a device does need to know how to address the HC cards - it is not the same as standard SD. The current max capacity for an SDHC card is 32GB as Rasputin mentioned - but not all devices that support SDHC have support for 32GB.


Thanx, I understand now. Just bought a 16G. That ought to be enough for me. One of the free apps needed to be downloaded to an SD card.

I tried streaming Amazon Prime free movies and it didn't work well. Very herky jerky. Gave up on that. Amazon does have a box that comes up and says the movie isn't for mobile devices. Seems it considers the Acer a mobile device. I guess they'll get that straightened out soon.

Rich


----------



## Shades228

RasputinAXP said:


> To start nothing bigger than 16 or 32GB; SDHC's top limit is 32 I think, though I could be mistaken.


That's correct anything higher than 32gb is SDXC.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Shades228 said:


> That's correct anything higher than 32gb is SDXC.


That's true...but technically SDHC is limited to 32GB because it's limited to 26 of the available 32 bits. If it wasn't limited it would have capacities as high as 2TB, which is the maximum capacity SD 3.0 and SDXC.

All of which is irrelevant because for all practical purposes SDHC is limited to 32GB. 

Mike


----------



## Sixto

RIM may have doubled BlackBerry PlayBook build plans, 4G version could launch in June:http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/27/rim-m...k-build-plans-4g-version-could-launch-in-june​


----------



## Sixto

Not exactly on-topic (sorry), but thought interesting:Apple Purchases iCloud.com for $4.5 Million?:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/28/apple-purchases-icloud-com-for-4-5-million/​


----------



## Groundhog45

As mentioned earlier, Lexar already has a 128GB SDXC card out. Of course, it costs over $300.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Groundhog45 said:


> As mentioned earlier, Lexar already has a 128GB SDXC card out. Of course, it costs over $300.


I bought 1 64GB SDXC card for $49 that I use in my digital camera....works perfectly now for several months...they go on sale periodically, so getting on as a memory expansion in a tablet would not be a big deal in terms of cost.


----------



## raott

I'm reading the Acer Iconia does not offer native Exchange email support. If I recall correctly, the Xoom had it. I wonder why there would be a difference.

Anyway, no Exchange support would be a showstopper for me considering the Acer.


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> Anyway, no Exchange support would be a showstopper for me considering the Acer.


Not an Exchange user myself, but I noticed this product (Touchdown, $20) apparently works on at least some tablets.


----------



## AttiTech

Extravaganza for Tablets
Mission: Failed

Every place in a 50 mile radius was sold out of EVERY tablet :/
Of course, 3 of them were getting the new shipments in Today or Friday


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> Extravaganza for Tablets
> Mission: Failed
> 
> Every place in a 50 mile radius was sold out of EVERY tablet :/
> Of course, 3 of them were getting the new shipments in Today or Friday


Sounds like Apple wasn't the only company to underestimate the pent-up demand. Of course production of some of the mostly Japanese-made tablets could have been affected by recent events.


----------



## trdrjeff

rich584 said:


> I tried streaming Amazon Prime free movies and it didn't work well. Very herky jerky. Gave up on that. Amazon does have a box that comes up and says the movie isn't for mobile devices. * Seems it considers the Acer a mobile device. I guess they'll get that straightened out soon.*
> 
> Rich


Just a thought (I know you can do it on the NookColor running CM7) have you tried messing with the browser identification settings? CM7 allows you to choose from various Android flavors, Ipad, and IE6 etc


----------



## klang

Mossberg reviews the LG G-Slate.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> Not an Exchange user myself, but I noticed this product (Touchdown, $20) apparently works on at least some tablets.


I read about that. I would not be real keen on dropping an extra $20 on an App for something that should be native to the product.

The Xoom had it. I wonder if Motorola added it in or whether it is native to Honeycomb and Acer for whatever reason didn't include it. Haven't had time to really research the issue.

I wonder if the Asus Transformer has it.


----------



## Rich

trdrjeff said:


> Just a thought (I know you can do it on the NookColor running CM7) have you tried messing with the browser identification settings? CM7 allows you to choose from various Android flavors, Ipad, and IE6 etc


Wouldn't even know how to begin, but I'm willing to learn.

Rich


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> Mossberg reviews the LG G-Slate.


Not a good review for LG. Thanx for the link.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> Wouldn't even know how to begin, but I'm willing to learn.
> 
> Rich


I don't think you can do it with the stock browser (I could be wrong). However, if you use the dolphin browser (look for it in the market, it is free) there is a setting to do just what trdrjeff is describing.

The dolphin browser also adds tabs.


----------



## trdrjeff

I don't have my nook here to investigate, but with the browser open > Menu button > Settings > There should be something there about browser identity. 

I'm pretty sure there was a similar setting on my Droid X previously but I don't see it now that I have Gingerbread on it


----------



## Rich

I just got on the chat line (I was wrong about the times, sorry) and they could not answer my question about the cost of battery changes. All they told me is that it's covered for a year under their warranty. The guy I was chatting with went out of his way to misdirect me several times.

I kinda like the Acer, but I'm not gonna go thru hoops just to get a simple question answered and they have no phone number to call. This thing is going back after I play with it for a couple more days. Very disappointing.

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> I don't think you can do it with the stock browser (I could be wrong). However, if you use the dolphin browser (look for it in the market, it is free) there is a setting to do just what trdrjeff is describing.
> 
> The dolphin browser also adds tabs.


OK, I'll try it.

Rich


----------



## Shades228

raott said:


> I read about that. I would not be real keen on dropping an extra $20 on an App for something that should be native to the product.
> 
> The Xoom had it. I wonder if Motorola added it in or whether it is native to Honeycomb and Acer for whatever reason didn't include it. Haven't had time to really research the issue.
> 
> I wonder if the Asus Transformer has it.


There are some lawsuits floating around about exchange access and android. I bet that Acer chose it would be easier to not be included in the lawsuit and not piss off MS at this point. Google pays for rights for Android but manufacturers don't right now. That at least is my speculation on the matter and without that much research into it I could be completely wrong.


----------



## Shades228

trdrjeff said:


> I don't have my nook here to investigate, but with the browser open > Menu button > Settings > There should be something there about browser identity.
> 
> I'm pretty sure there was a similar setting on my Droid X previously but I don't see it now that I have Gingerbread on it





rich584 said:


> OK, I'll try it.
> 
> Rich


Dolphin is OK and has a lot of themes and stuff but for saying that it's a non mobile browser I like Skyfire instead. It also handles video better than Dolphin.


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> Dolphin is OK and has a lot of themes and stuff but for saying that it's a non mobile browser I like Skyfire instead. It also handles video better than Dolphin.


Now I'm getting confused.....:nono2:

Rich


----------



## AttiTech

klang said:


> Mossberg reviews the LG G-Slate.


Always been sceptical of this Tablet. Not sure why, but didn't feel right about it when I saw it was being released.


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> Now I'm getting confused.....:nono2:
> 
> Rich


He is saying you have a choice of multiple browsers you can download that have a feature that allows the browser to pretend/report that it is not on a mobile device. One of those is dolphin, the other is skyfire.

There may be some others.


----------



## AttiTech

raott said:


> He is saying you have a choice of multiple browsers you can download that have a feature that allows the browser to pretend/report that it is not on a mobile device. One of those is dolphin, the other is skyfire.
> 
> There may be some others.


My wife uses Opera on her Droid.


----------



## RasputinAXP

raott said:


> I read about that. I would not be real keen on dropping an extra $20 on an App for something that should be native to the product.
> 
> The Xoom had it. I wonder if Motorola added it in or whether it is native to Honeycomb and Acer for whatever reason didn't include it. Haven't had time to really research the issue.
> 
> I wonder if the Asus Transformer has it.


Actually Touchdown for Tablets is free.


----------



## Steve

In case folks missed it, just saw this PCMag Asus Eee Pad Transformer review.


----------



## raott

RasputinAXP said:


> Actually Touchdown for Tablets is free.


Thanks,

I thought I read somewhere the trial version was free and then it was $20 after that.


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> Anyway, no Exchange support would be a showstopper for me considering the Acer.





Steve said:


> Not an Exchange user myself, but I noticed this product (Touchdown, $20) apparently works on at least some tablets.





raott said:


> I read about that. I would not be real keen on dropping an extra $20 on an App for something that should be native to the product.
> 
> The Xoom had it. I wonder if Motorola added it in or whether it is native to Honeycomb and Acer for whatever reason didn't include it. Haven't had time to really research the issue.
> 
> I wonder if the Asus Transformer has it.





RasputinAXP said:


> Actually Touchdown for Tablets is free.


Yup. My bad for not drilling down deeper. It does look like the tablet version is free, at least here. There are multiple versions of Touchdown, so kind of confusing!


----------



## trdrjeff

There was just an analyst on CNBC talking about the coming Windows 8 and it's impact on the Tablet market. She seemed to think Office would be a huge boost to the adoption of Win8 Tablets. 

I was only half paying attention but she seemed to say something about there only being 2 tablet platforms surviving (iOS & Win8, I think) 

Do you guys think Office apps are really that important to the tablet platform? I don't see the appeal personally...


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> Yup. My bad for not drilling down deeper. It does look like the tablet version is free, at least here. There are multiple versions of Touchdown, so kind of confusing!


That explains where I read it. I think I've been on too many different tech forums today.


----------



## Steve

trdrjeff said:


> [...] Do you guys think Office apps are really that important to the tablet platform? I don't see the appeal personally...


I'm using cloud-based Google Docs to edit Word and Excel files on the iPad2. I imagine Google would make Docs work even better under Honeycomb.

If there's a market for Office on tablets, I'd be surprised if Microsoft didn't come out with iOS and/or Honeycomb versions as well. I say this because Mac Office has been one of their most successful products since it's introduction, and they recently developed a very impressive (IMHO) Bing iPad app.

When it comes to making money, Microsoft appears to be platform agnostic.


----------



## Shades228

rich584 said:


> Now I'm getting confused.....:nono2:
> 
> Rich


Sorry I can clarify further.

Most mobile browsers state they are a mobile version to help load faster and keep clutter down.

Browser in Android used to be able to be set to identify as a desktop.

Dolphin HD has the option to choose if it's mobile, desktop, or iphone.

Skyfire has the same options but handles full web sites better as well as native support for most video codecs built in. This results in better page viewing and smoother transition. If it's a flash heavy page skyfire is the only browser I'll use for it because of how it can actually handle flash.


----------



## bobukcat

Shades228 said:


> Sorry I can clarify further.
> 
> Most mobile browsers state they are a mobile version to help load faster and keep clutter down.
> 
> Browser in Android used to be able to be set to identify as a desktop.
> 
> Dolphin HD has the option to choose if it's mobile, desktop, or iphone.
> 
> Skyfire has the same options but handles full web sites better as well as native support for most video codecs built in. This results in better page viewing and smoother transition. If it's a flash heavy page skyfire is the only browser I'll use for it because of how it can actually handle flash.


To do this on the Xoom tablet with the stock browser you type "about:debug" in the address bar and hit enter - nothing happens but then you can hit the settings button in the top right corner and a Debug tab on the left is now there - select that and then UAString to change the behavior of the browser. There's settings for Android, Desktop and even iPhone and iPad anomgst others. You will have to do this again if you reboot the device unless you root it and install the "permanent fix" from the XDA-Developers site.

I have no idea if this works on any other HC tablet.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I'm using cloud-based Google Docs to edit Word and Excel files on the iPad2. I imagine Google would make Docs work even better under Honeycomb.
> 
> If there's a market for Office on tablets, I'd be surprised if Microsoft didn't come out with iOS and/or Honeycomb versions as well. I say this because Mac Office has been one of their most successful products since it's introduction, and they recently developed a very impressive (IMHO) Bing iPad app.
> 
> When it comes to making money, Microsoft appears to be platform agnostic.


I registered for and got a great deal on Quick Office Pro HD for my Xoom. PDFs display better than any other program I've used and you can create and edit full Excel, Word and Power Point documents on it. If you want to use your tablet for non-Google Docs documents I highly recommend it.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> To do this on the Xoom tablet with the stock browser you type "about:debug" in the address bar and hit enter - nothing happens but then you can hit the settings button in the top right corner and a Debug tab on the left is now there - select that and then UAString to change the behavior of the browser. There's settings for Android, Desktop and even iPhone and iPad anomgst others. You will have to do this again if you reboot the device unless you root it and install the "permanent fix" from the XDA-Developers site.
> 
> I have no idea if this works on any other HC tablet.


You reminded me that if you type "about:flags" on the Chrome browser for PC, among other things, you can enable "cloud printing" (at least for Chrome 12). Does that work for Xoom Chrome as well? Just curious.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> Yup. My bad for not drilling down deeper. It does look like the tablet version is free, at least here. There are multiple versions of Touchdown, so kind of confusing!


I haven't looked at it for the tablet because I don't need it but on there is a "free" version of it for all Android devices but it is really just a demo that expires after one week - I would expect the tablet version to be the same.

It's very interesting that some Honeycomb tablets don't have Exchange support. I've never heard anything about it being Motorola that added exchange support to the older versions of Android and in fact other non-Moto but stock Android devices like the Nexus 1 used the client with exchange support built in. I've also heard that Google is keeping much tighter control on Honeycomb than they did previous versions so it's surprising to me that there would be such a key difference between the first two to hit the market.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> You reminded me that if you type "about:flags" on the Chrome browser for PC, among other things, you can enable "cloud printing" (at least for Chrome 12). Does that work for Xoom Chrome as well? Just curious.


It doesn't appear to do anything on the Xoom tablet, at least not that I can tell yet.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> [...] I've also heard that Google is keeping much tighter control on Honeycomb than they did previous versions [...]


Ed Burnette, a ZDNet technology blogger posits that "IceCream", the reported successor to Honeycomb, will be more "open", and will run on both phones and tablets.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/is-honeycomb-androids-vista/2229


----------



## raott

bobukcat said:


> I haven't looked at it for the tablet because I don't need it but on there is a "free" version of it for all Android devices but it is really just a demo that expires after one week - I would expect the tablet version to be the same.
> 
> It's very interesting that some Honeycomb tablets don't have Exchange support. I've never heard anything about it being Motorola that added exchange support to the older versions of Android and in fact other non-Moto but stock Android devices like the Nexus 1 used the client with exchange support built in. I've also heard that Google is keeping much tighter control on Honeycomb than they did previous versions so it's surprising to me that there would be such a key difference between the first two to hit the market.


As far as I can tell with the research I've done so far, the Acer is the only one that doesn't have native Exchange support. Very strange.


----------



## bobukcat

For those interested in USB connectivity on tablets, this tidbit from Motorola hit Droid-Life.com today, I have to wonder if it's just a micro-usb Host to USB Female adapter and if so what other types of devices might work when connected to it and if this connectivity requires the OS update that is supposed to start rolling out today. $20 is pretty steep for an adapter cable!


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> Ed Burnette, a ZDNet technology blogger posits that "IceCream", the reported successor to Honeycomb, will be more "open", and will run on both phones and tablets.
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/is-honeycomb-androids-vista/2229


Developers have uncovered portions of Honeycomb that appear to lend itself to a "dual-platform" OS as well but it appears to be far from being ready for the smartphone devices.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

As an aside that is also on-topic...

One of the most negative things people say about the iPad/iPhone and Apple in general... is to talk about their "closed system" as being restrictive to developers and that customers can't do whatever they want to do with their Apple device.

Whenever this comes up... I am reminded of how Linux hasn't been adopted at a high rate that would leave you to believe consumers truly want fully open architecture that can be 3rd party or end-user customized to your heart's content.

FYI, I like Linux... I'm just throwing it out there that the folk who scream the loudest about Apple being too "controlling" of their products... those folk don't seem to be Linux users by and large... so I'm not sure they really want the open-architecture of which they complain.


----------



## Shades228

Stewart Vernon said:


> As an aside that is also on-topic...
> 
> One of the most negative things people say about the iPad/iPhone and Apple in general... is to talk about their "closed system" as being restrictive to developers and that customers can't do whatever they want to do with their Apple device.
> 
> Whenever this comes up... I am reminded of how Linux hasn't been adopted at a high rate that would leave you to believe consumers truly want fully open architecture that can be 3rd party or end-user customized to your heart's content.
> 
> FYI, I like Linux... I'm just throwing it out there that the folk who scream the loudest about Apple being too "controlling" of their products... those folk don't seem to be Linux users by and large... so I'm not sure they really want the open-architecture of which they complain.


Linux fails because it isn't a business. Without someone driving money into something it won't take off for mass populace.

There's no incentive for manufacturers to install it because they won't get as much money for pre installed apps.

Consumers know windows and can buy windows apps in a store.

If linux could do all the gaming that Windows can it would really start to take over home computers more. Gaming is key and that's also why Apple will never be as big as PC's until they do something that really makes them compete in this market.

MS and Apple have made propriatary software, that is very good, that are key for developers to use.

People care about it being open but they also care about ease of use and availability of software. Apple was king of this until recently.

I do think that Android has the ability though to introduce people to Linux again but I also think that it won't go anywhere until gaming can compete.

I make my kids browse in Linux and they only go into Windows to play games.


----------



## Shades228

bobukcat said:


> Developers have uncovered portions of Honeycomb that appear to lend itself to a "dual-platform" OS as well but it appears to be far from being ready for the smartphone devices.


There are also parts of GB that are designed for larger screens as well. So it's clear that they do share a lot of the same code for some things.


----------



## AttiTech

Shades228 said:


> Linux fails because it isn't a business. Without someone driving money into something it won't take off for mass populace.
> 
> There's no incentive for manufacturers to install it because they won't get as much money for pre installed apps.
> 
> Consumers know windows and can buy windows apps in a store.
> 
> If linux could do all the gaming that Windows can it would really start to take over home computers more. Gaming is key and that's also why Apple will never be as big as PC's until they do something that really makes them compete in this market.
> 
> MS and Apple have made propriatary software, that is very good, that are key for developers to use.
> 
> People care about it being open but they also care about ease of use and availability of software. Apple was king of this until recently.
> 
> I do think that Android has the ability though to introduce people to Linux again but I also think that it won't go anywhere until gaming can compete.
> 
> I make my kids browse in Linux and they only go into Windows to play games.


Having games built with the ability to be ran on Linux would be a mess load more sinple than trying to use their program to get it to work. I'm not entirely sold that it would take over the home computer markets. Apple and Microsoft have such a jump on Linux for home computers and it's what everyone is familiar with. Personally, if Linux could step up to the point of being able to run everything we have available currently and in the future, I would love to see it become everyone's OS. I dual-boot Ubuntu on it's own HDD on one of my computers and I love it. I don't think I've logged into Windows on that computer in over a year now.


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> He is saying you have a choice of multiple browsers you can download that have a feature that allows the browser to pretend/report that it is not on a mobile device. One of those is dolphin, the other is skyfire.
> 
> There may be some others.


I downloaded Skyfire, might as well download Dolphin and try it on Amazon movies. Not many good choices there, by the way.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> Actually Touchdown for Tablets is free.


I might as well download that too. My head is really gonna explode one of these days!

Rich


----------



## Rich

trdrjeff said:


> There was just an analyst on CNBC talking about the coming Windows 8 and it's impact on the Tablet market. She seemed to think Office would be a huge boost to the adoption of Win8 Tablets.
> 
> I was only half paying attention but she seemed to say something about there only being 2 tablet platforms surviving (iOS & Win8, I think)
> 
> Do you guys think Office apps are really that important to the tablet platform? I don't see the appeal personally...


I don't see it either, but in a work environment...?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> Sorry I can clarify further.
> 
> Most mobile browsers state they are a mobile version to help load faster and keep clutter down.
> 
> Browser in Android used to be able to be set to identify as a desktop.
> 
> Dolphin HD has the option to choose if it's mobile, desktop, or iphone.
> 
> Skyfire has the same options but handles full web sites better as well as native support for most video codecs built in. This results in better page viewing and smoother transition. If it's a flash heavy page skyfire is the only browser I'll use for it because of how it can actually handle flash.


Thanx, that makes it much clearer.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> To do this on the Xoom tablet with the stock browser you type "about:debug" in the address bar and hit enter - nothing happens but then you can hit the settings button in the top right corner and a Debug tab on the left is now there - select that and then UAString to change the behavior of the browser. There's settings for Android, Desktop and even iPhone and iPad anomgst others. You will have to do this again if you reboot the device unless you root it and install the "permanent fix" from the XDA-Developers site.
> 
> I have no idea if this works on any other HC tablet.


I'll give that a try tomorrow.

Rich


----------



## Shades228

AttiTech said:


> Having games built with the ability to be ran on Linux would be a mess load more sinple than trying to use their program to get it to work. I'm not entirely sold that it would take over the home computer markets. Apple and Microsoft have such a jump on Linux for home computers and it's what everyone is familiar with. Personally, if Linux could step up to the point of being able to run everything we have available currently and in the future, I would love to see it become everyone's OS. I dual-boot Ubuntu on it's own HDD on one of my computers and I love it. I don't think I've logged into Windows on that computer in over a year now.


What else can't you do on Linux that you can on the other operating systems?

Those companies have a jump because they spend money to make sure they stay in strong market positions. They also make innovative and proprietary software because it makes them money. This goes against an open model, but is good for people as well.

An open model is better in theory but not in application for general consumers unfortunately.

Android so far is the first commercial success of an open source OS. Whether it remains that way is to be seen.


----------



## AttiTech

Shades228 said:


> What else can't you do on Linux that you can on the other operating systems?
> 
> Those companies have a jump because they spend money to make sure they stay in strong market positions. They also make innovative and proprietary software because it makes them money. This goes against an open model, but is good for people as well.
> 
> An open model is better in theory but not in application for general consumers unfortunately.
> 
> Android so far is the first commercial success of an open source OS. Whether it remains that way is to be seen.


What I'm hoping for - Replacing My Win7 desktop with iMac, get my wife her Macbook Pro, get me a nifty Linux Laptop or maybe try out the Crome laptop


----------



## Shades228

Here are some articles about MS vs Android patents.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384583,00.asp

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and...ut-for-Android-Blood-Barnes-and-Noble-707971/


----------



## AttiTech

Shades228 said:


> Here are some articles about MS vs Android patents.
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384583,00.asp
> 
> http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and...ut-for-Android-Blood-Barnes-and-Noble-707971/


Lots of Greed out there.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

Shades228 said:


> What else can't you do on Linux that you can on the other operating systems?
> 
> Those companies have a jump because they spend money to make sure they stay in strong market positions. They also make innovative and proprietary software because it makes them money. This goes against an open model, but is good for people as well.
> 
> An open model is better in theory but not in application for general consumers unfortunately.
> 
> Android so far is the first commercial success of an open source OS. Whether it remains that way is to be seen.


That was my point, essentially...

Most consumers want ease of installation and use and a plethora of apps all ready to be ran.

The people that want open-architecture are not the masses...

Apple and Microsoft (in different ways) do a lot of stuff for you so that a 3rd party developer can do some things easier IF they play by Apple and Microsoft's rules. Similarly, you get an easier to use device as a consumer BUT that comes with some restrictions on how it can be customized and used.

You really can't have it both ways.

So... my point was to say that saying something is "closed" as a negative doesn't jive with how consumers actually choose most of their tech products.

IF open-architecture was the high priority, then Linux would be selling like gangbusters.

Yeah, I know companies would have a harder time profiting by Linux development... but consumers could develop their own stuff... which is what a lot of people claim they want.... but then when they get it (Linux) they complain that it is too hard to do what they want.

So I've never viewed Apple as being closed or that IF they are it was a negative. Apple isn't for everyone... but for the people that like it, it serves them well.


----------



## bobukcat

Stewart Vernon said:


> That was my point, essentially...
> 
> Most consumers want ease of installation and use and a plethora of apps all ready to be ran.
> 
> The people that want open-architecture are not the masses...
> 
> Apple and Microsoft (in different ways) do a lot of stuff for you so that a 3rd party developer can do some things easier IF they play by Apple and Microsoft's rules. Similarly, you get an easier to use device as a consumer BUT that comes with some restrictions on how it can be customized and used.
> 
> You really can't have it both ways.
> 
> So... my point was to say that saying something is "closed" as a negative doesn't jive with how consumers actually choose most of their tech products.
> 
> IF open-architecture was the high priority, then Linux would be selling like gangbusters.
> 
> Yeah, I know companies would have a harder time profiting by Linux development... but consumers could develop their own stuff... which is what a lot of people claim they want.... but then when they get it (Linux) they complain that it is too hard to do what they want.
> 
> So I've never viewed Apple as being closed or that IF they are it was a negative. Apple isn't for everyone... but for the people that like it, it serves them well.


I think what many people want is a MORE open operating system than Apple. They turned a lot of people off not just by refusing to allow Flash but when they wouldn't allow other applications like 3rd party browsers, Google Voice or Chat, etc.

I think the other thing working in Android's favor at this time is that the nerds love it for it's hack-ability and when non-nerd friends and family go to buy a phone they ask the nerds for a recommendation and they naturally recommend what they like (I know it happens with me all the time - although I still tell people it's almost impossible to go wrong buying an iPhone). It also gives users a LOT more options for hardware to choose from - with the iPhone you have one choice (okay maybe two). Then of course you also have carrier restrictions on iOS as well.


----------



## AttiTech

bobukcat said:


> I think what many people want is a MORE open operating system than Apple. They turned a lot of people off not just by refusing to allow Flash but when they wouldn't allow other applications like 3rd party browsers, Google Voice or Chat, etc.
> 
> I think the other thing working in Android's favor at this time is that the nerds love it for it's hack-ability and when non-nerd friends and family go to buy a phone they ask the nerds for a recommendation and they naturally recommend what they like (I know it happens with me all the time - although I still tell people it's almost impossible to go wrong buying an iPhone). It also gives users a LOT more options for hardware to choose from - with the iPhone you have one choice (okay maybe two). Then of course you also have carrier restrictions on iOS as well.


I prefer the Droid over an iPhone, but, if given the oppurtunity, I would love to get my hands on an iPhone 3GS. Friend of mine hacked his 3GS and uses it with T-Mobile and it has Froyo on it. It's not as smooth as a Droid device would be, but it's close.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> I think what many people want is a MORE open operating system than Apple. They turned a lot of people off not just by refusing to allow Flash but when they wouldn't allow other applications like 3rd party browsers, Google Voice or Chat, etc.
> 
> I think the other thing working in Android's favor at this time is that the nerds love it for it's hack-ability and when non-nerd friends and family go to buy a phone they ask the nerds for a recommendation and they naturally recommend what they like (I know it happens with me all the time - although I still tell people it's almost impossible to go wrong buying an iPhone). It also gives users a LOT more options for hardware to choose from - with the iPhone you have one choice (okay maybe two). Then of course you also have carrier restrictions on iOS as well.


I agree that characterizing that "most people" wanting an open architecture is an unknown,...but if given the choice...having the option of not being limited to one manufacturer's view of what should/shouldn't be supported is what drives competition. It also drives choices for consumers.

This played out with the iPhone. Many apps/options are good...but when you restrict common applications like Flash on tablets, you limit access to the web - its more common that some will admit. Limits tend to drive people to alternatives.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Just pre-ordered an ASUS 32GB Transformer and docking station/keyboard from J&R. No delivery estimate yet, but I've been very pleased with J&R in the past, and Amazon is only accepting orders via Target. I'm in the queue


----------



## AttiTech

FHSPSU67 said:


> Just pre-ordered an ASUS 32GB Transformer and docking station/keyboard from J&R. No delivery estimate yet, but I've been very pleased with J&R in the past, and Amazon is only accepting orders via Target. I'm in the queue


Good luck! Let us know what you really think whenever it arrives.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Thanks, I will definitely do that


----------



## Laxguy

Flash used for plain ole video, most tech savvy folk will agree, (and some not) is a waste of CPU cycles and hence battery life.

But *what sites are good and rely solely on Flash?* Haven't most of them been re-written in HTML5 or other languages? I am sure there are some, but perhaps those who insist on Flash as a deal breaker could give out a handful of URLs.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> This played out with the iPhone. Many apps/options are good...but when you restrict common applications like Flash on tablets, you limit access to the web - its more common that some will admit. Limits tend to drive people to alternatives.





Laxguy said:


> Flash used for plain ole video, most tech savvy folk will agree, (and some not) is a waste of CPU cycles and hence battery life.
> 
> But *what sites are good and rely solely on Flash?* Haven't most of them been re-written in HTML5 or other languages? I am sure there are some, but perhaps those who insist on Flash as a deal breaker could give out a handful of URLs.


Guys, lets please not go down this road again. It was discussed at nauseum earlier in this thread.


----------



## Stewart Vernon

There are limits and there are LIMITS.

My car, for example, only runs on one kind of fuel... and it cannot drive on just any surface. It also cannot just accept any accessory or add-on without, in some cases, performing major modifications to the existing hardware.

I also have no direct access to the on-board computer/diagnostics... so I can't program it to do what I want. I'm limited to what the car manufacturer thought would be the best for my car to perform.

The iPhone used to be limited to AT&T and now has them + Verizon. Ok, so that is a limitation. BUT, you can choose that limit before going in... IF you are in an area served only by one of those (or at least reliably only by them) then you have no choice already... IF you happen to like AT&T or Verizon, then it isn't a limit for you either.

Technically speaking... the Wifi capability of an iPhone (or any smartphone) is limited because it only works whenever you are in range of Wifi. So... if you have Wifi at home but nobody else around you has it... then you can't use Wifi much. Also, even when out, there is no guarantee you will find free-to-access Wifi... again, these are limitations.

Buying a PC or a Mac limits some choices with software and hardware that only works (or is optimized) for one O/S or the other. The use of that computer is also limited by your own inherent ability to learn how to operate it!

So... when talking about limits... I would like to see more recognition of how strong those limitations are.

I can't use my iPhone to drive nails in an emergency... but then I didn't expect it to do that! It's a limit that never comes up for me.

Flash... Honestly, Flash has become over-used at times in scenarios where it is of little or no value. Flash-video, for example, seems like a waste of Flash.

Web sites that have their menu/functional design in Flash typically have an alternative way to view their site because they want the most viewers they can get... and some folk just don't like a Web site that is too busy-looking even if they can run Flash.

It's not like Apple keeps it secret that they don't support Flash on their mobile devices, so you can choose your device based on that too.

At least so far, the trend has been up for Apple... so whatever they are doing is working for them and their customers... Also, the market is big enough that there are other devices available to fill other customers' needs.


----------



## Rich

Starting to have problems with the Acer. It won't pick up my router (a Cisco Systems N router) unless I'm nearly on top of the router. My three laptops have no problem connecting from the same places that the Acer won't. 

Another thing that keeps happening is when I press the Power button to turn it on, sometimes it comes right up, which it shouldn't do, and then freezes up and I have to hit the Power button again and then it goes thru the proper sequence to start up. 

I fully expect to bring this back, but I'll keep playing with it until Monday. Looks like the $150 savings over the Xoom wasn't worth it.

Rich


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> I fully expect to bring this back, but I'll keep playing with it until Monday. Looks like the $150 savings over the Xoom wasn't worth it.
> 
> Rich


The Acer seems to be the stepchild even though on paper it is a solid unit.

The Asus sold out very quick and the Asus forums are fairly well populated compared to the Acer (Acer doesn't even have it's own forum on androidcentral).

I think when the Asus becomes more readily available I will get one to compare with my Ipad2. If the Asus is small enough that I can hide it from my wife, I'll keep it and have both.:grin:


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> [...] I fully expect to bring this back, but I'll keep playing with it until Monday. Looks like the $150 savings over the Xoom wasn't worth it.


For the reasons I gave here, the forthcoming Galaxy Tab 10.1 may be the one to wait for in the Honeycomb space. Just my .02.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> For the reasons I gave here, the forthcoming Galaxy Tab 10.1 may be the one to wait for in the Honeycomb space. Just my .02.


It may be, the info on it is very hard to come by right now. There is conflictin info on whether it has an SD card. Also conflicting info on whether it has a Tegra dual core.


----------



## Shades228

Gamestop to start streaming games to Android devices:

http://androidcommunity.com/gamestop-embraces-android-for-streaming-games-20110429/


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> It may be, the info on it is very hard to come by right now. There is conflictin info on whether it has an SD card. Also conflicting info on whether it has a Tegra dual core.


My understanding is it does not have a card slot, which is probably how they can make it as thin as the iPad2. Based on my own experience with even the iPad2 beginning to feel "heavy" after prolonged use, reducing weight and thickness is the right design approach for these gadgets, IMHO.

Here are the specs from Samsung's site: http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1v/specification.html


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> My understanding is it does not have a card slot, which is probably how they can make it as thin as the iPad2. Based on my own experience with even the iPad2 beginning to feel "heavy" after prolonged use, reducing weight and thickness is the right design approach for these gadgets, IMHO.
> 
> Here are the specs from Samsung's site: http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/10.1v/specification.html


You are correct. I went to a few other cites an they agree that there is no SD card. It will be interesting to see the pricing on this one. Personally I would need a 32 and it is dirt cheap to buy a 16gig model and pop in an SD card. But weight is a big factor, Apple has it nailed on the thinness and weight.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> For the reasons I gave here, the forthcoming Galaxy Tab 10.1 may be the one to wait for in the Honeycomb space. Just my .02.


I'll probably wait for that to come out. You usually nail stuff like this pretty well. 

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I'll probably wait for that to come out. You usually nail stuff like this pretty well.


I don't know about that  But I do think the Samsung could be the cream of the current 16:9 tablet crop, especially after reading this glowing review of their latest Android phone.

How they price the Galaxy Tab 10.1 will be the key, IMHO. I say this because it looks like there may not be a "WiFi-only" version for folks that don't need 3g/4g capability. Hopefully that audience won't get penalized because there's an extra chip inside.

I think it was *Sixto *who suggested that Apple should have taken a similar approach. Make one tablet model with chips for all three technologies: GSM, CDMA and Wi-Fi. Then they'd only have to stock three different memory sizes in two colors (6 variations total), instead of the 18 variations they have to produce and stock now. No wonder there are shortages. D'oh!


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> I don't know about that  But I do think the Samsung could be the cream of the current 16:9 tablet crop, especially after reading this glowing review of their latest Android phone.
> 
> How they price the Galaxy Tab 10.1 will be the key, IMHO. I say this because it looks like there may not be a "WiFi-only" version for folks that don't need 3g/4g capability. Hopefully that audience won't get penalized because there's an extra chip inside.
> 
> I think it was *Sixto *who suggested that Apple should have taken a similar approach. Make one tablet model with chips for all three technologies: GSM, CDMA and Wi-Fi. Then they'd only have to stock three different memory sizes in two colors (6 variations total), instead of the 18 variations they have to produce and stock now. No wonder there are shortages. D'oh!


I fall into that category of not needing the 3G/4G tablets. What's everyone elses pricing thoughts? I'd assume around a $450 price tag for the base model with WiFi only (crossing fingers) and $600 for the 3/4G


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> I fall into that category of not needing the 3G/4G tablets. What's everyone elses pricing thoughts? I'd assume around a $450 price tag for the base model with WiFi only (crossing fingers) and $600 for the 3/4G


Problem is Samsung is currently not showing a wi-fi only option in the specs.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> Problem is Samsung is currently not showing a wi-fi only option in the specs.


Right, but I think they may lose out if they don't go for it. For people like me who just want it as a toy for the family, we don't need the network coverage. I know about 9-10 people who are doing the same thing and just wanting one to play with around the house.


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> Right, but I think they may lose out if they don't go for it. For people like me who just want it as a toy for the family, we don't need the network coverage. I know about 9-10 people who are doing the same thing and just wanting one to play with around the house.


I get that.  Like I said, I hope they come up with a price that _doesn't _penalize "wifi-only" folks for the extra 3g/4g chips that may be inside, if they elect to only manufacture a single model.


----------



## AttiTech

Steve said:


> I get that.  Like I said, I hope they come up with a price that _doesn't _penalize "wifi-only" folks for the extra 3g/4g chips that may be inside, if they elect to only manufacture a single model.


Yarp, but since there are over 9000 other models to choose from that are coming out and already release so I have my "pick of the litter" if you will


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I don't know about that  But I do think the Samsung could be the cream of the current 16:9 tablet crop, especially after reading this glowing review of their latest Android phone.
> 
> How they price the Galaxy Tab 10.1 will be the key, IMHO. I say this because it looks like there may not be a "WiFi-only" version for folks that don't need 3g/4g capability. Hopefully that audience won't get penalized because there's an extra chip inside.
> 
> I think it was *Sixto *who suggested that Apple should have taken a similar approach. Make one tablet model with chips for all three technologies: GSM, CDMA and Wi-Fi. Then they'd only have to stock three different memory sizes in two colors (6 variations total), instead of the 18 variations they have to produce and stock now. No wonder there are shortages. D'oh!


Well, by the time that the new Galaxy comes out my wife should be thoroughly sick of the Amex bill being screwed up every month by buying these damn things as they come out and then taking them back and she'll be willing to drop a few more bucks for another data plan just to get some stability. She thought I'd get a new data plan when I got the iPad1 and I should have. Would have broken her in to the idea that we were gonna get another one and she'd be used to it by now.

Small victories...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

AttiTech said:


> I fall into that category of not needing the 3G/4G tablets. What's everyone elses pricing thoughts? I'd assume around a $450 price tag for the base model with WiFi only (crossing fingers) and $600 for the 3/4G


The $450 didn't work out well for the Acer. Perhaps the Asus will be better even tho it's cheaper. I'm beginning to think we'd be better off with the 4G data stream if the Acer is any indication of how well the tablets are gonna pick up a router. All three of my laptops pick up my router signal in places where the Acer just doesn't work. Frustrating.

I realize that times are rough, but I gotta feeling the 4G, if it works as well as advertised, will solve the router problem.

I don't remember the Xoom having any problems picking up my router. That cost $600 for the Wi-Fi only version. In retrospect, it was probably worth that extra $150.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I get that.  Like I said, I hope they come up with a price that _doesn't _penalize "wifi-only" folks for the extra 3g/4g chips that may be inside, if they elect to only manufacture a single model.


With my luck it won't have just a Wi-Fi connection.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> With my luck it won't have just a Wi-Fi connection.


Ya, what I may have previously stated poorly is that I'm thinking they may just make the tablet capable of all three technologies, for ease of manufacturing. Then they'd only have to produce two models, a 16gb and a 32gb. Hopefully doing this will drive the chipset costs down so much that the "wifi-only" users won't feel it.

Another advantage of this approach may be if a "wi-fi only" user _later on_ decides he wants 3g/4g, no need to buy a new tablet.


----------



## Shades228

Here's a cool soon to be app:

http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-20058688-12.html



> If you're struggling to decide between Android or Windows, BlueStacks has a solution for you: choose both. The unique piece of software ties a matrimonial knot between a full version of Android and your Windows machine, allowing you to jump at will between the two operating systems. The marriage is so smooth, in fact, you can create Android app shortcuts on your Windows desktop.
> 
> BlueStacks virtualizes Android in Windows (photos)
> In a conversation today at CNET's San Francisco offices, BlueStacks Senior Vice President Apu Kumar said that BlueStacks is a response to what his company perceives as two complementary needs: the consumers' desire to have their apps available everywhere, and the desire for a unified device.


----------



## AttiTech

Shades228 said:



> Here's a cool soon to be app:
> 
> http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-20058688-12.html


Nifty app there. I prefer the look and feel of the Android OS but having the Windows 7 phone for xbox live on the go is what's up.


----------



## raott

rich584 said:


> The $450 didn't work out well for the Acer. Perhaps the Asus will be better even tho it's cheaper. I'm beginning to think we'd be better off with the 4G data stream if the Acer is any indication of how well the tablets are gonna pick up a router. All three of my laptops pick up my router signal in places where the Acer just doesn't work. Frustrating.
> 
> I realize that times are rough, but I gotta feeling the 4G, if it works as well as advertised, will solve the router problem.
> 
> I don't remember the Xoom having any problems picking up my router. That cost $600 for the Wi-Fi only version. In retrospect, it was probably worth that extra $150.
> 
> Rich


Something to consider though, 4G will certainly be tied to a data plan with likely limits on the data you can use.

Rich - I would consider taking yours back and see if a new one solves your wifi issue. I've been spending some time at androidcentral, xda and androidforums and haven't seen anybody with major wifi issues.


----------



## Rich

Whilst doing the crossword puzzle today, I brought the dictionary up and the Acer's keyboard went dead. Had to shut the tablet off and start it up again to get it working. Monday, it's gone. Seemed so nice out of the box. :nono2:

Rich


----------



## Rich

raott said:


> Something to consider though, 4G will certainly be tied to a data plan with likely limits on the data you can use.
> 
> Rich - I would consider taking yours back and see if a new one solves your wifi issue. I've been spending some time at androidcentral, xda and androidforums and haven't seen anybody with major wifi issues.


I considered that. If anyone was gonna get a dud, it would be me. I think I'll take it back and wait for the Galaxy and the Toshiba to come out and try them. I might pick up another Xoom and see how that works with all the new apps.

While all this is going on, we're getting two bathrooms redone and I'm having a major problem with a brand new 24-500. Lotsa stress.

Rich


----------



## AttiTech

rich584 said:


> I considered that. If anyone was gonna get a dud, it would be me. I think I'll take it back and wait for the Galaxy and the Toshiba to come out and try them. I might pick up another Xoom and see how that works with all the new apps.
> 
> While all this is going on, we're getting two bathrooms redone and I'm having a major problem with a brand new 24-500. Lotsa stress.
> 
> Rich


Figures :/ Sounds like you need a stress free tablet


----------



## TBlazer07

Asus Eee Pad 10.1" Android Tablet with 16GB $342 + Tax at (of all places) Target.com for pre-order.
Use code *TCA27BAR* at checkout

Use redcard to get another 5% off.

I ordered one for $372 net inc tax and shipping after the coupon and including my 5% Redcard discount off the top..

Delivery somewhere between now and forever.

(Copied from Fatwallet.com)


----------



## raott

For anyone interested, here is a valid coupon code for Target for the Transformer for $40 off.

TCA27BAR

http://www.target.com/Transformer-Android-Tablet-TF101-A1-Memory/dp/B004U78J1G

Edit: I just looked at Tblazer beat me to it.


----------



## Shades228

Here's a good read for Android Tablets out so far:



> I'm pretty convinced that a top 5 Android tablets list would vary from person to person as we all have certain qualities we are looking for in a tablet user experience, hence I decided to turn to the experts who review these devices for a living. I decided that the Cnet editors are among the trusted and respected technology professionals in the industry, so I decided that their rankings were likely worth considering.


http://www.videogamingpros.com/top-5-android-tablets-according-to-the-experts/222946/


----------



## raott

Shades228 said:


> Here's a good read for Android Tablets out so far:
> 
> http://www.videogamingpros.com/top-5-android-tablets-according-to-the-experts/222946/


Choice is a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, choice is very buggy right now. I'm going to keep my Ipad2 as my "go to" tablet and get an android tablet to grow with.


----------



## Chris Blount

raott said:


> Choice is a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, choice is very buggy right now. I'm going to keep my Ipad2 as my "go to" tablet and get an android tablet to grow with.


This is like what Microsoft did with Windows all over again. 

I don't care how much anyone talks up the strategy behind what Google is doing with Android. The fact is that there WILL be compatibility issues between hardware manufacturers. Android is open source which is asking for trouble. The only thing it has going for it is that it's Linux based which is probably a good thing.

I can already see the new commercials with Justin Long:

"Hi, I'm an iOS....and I'm an Android."

:lol:


----------



## Rich

AttiTech said:


> Figures :/ Sounds like you need a stress free tablet


Now I've got a leaky shower stall. Just can't win.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> This is like what Microsoft did with Windows all over again.
> 
> I don't care how much anyone talks up the strategy behind what Google is doing with Android. The fact is that there WILL be compatibility issues between hardware manufacturers. Android is open source which is asking for trouble. The only thing it has going for it is that it's Linux based which is probably a good thing.
> 
> I can already see the new commercials with Justin Long:
> 
> "Hi, I'm an iOS....and I'm an Android."
> 
> :lol:


Well, the Acer sure isn't the answer. Very buggy. Going back tomorrow. The apps that work so well on my Droid don't work so well on the Acer. And that's just the beginning of the story...

Rich


----------



## Steve

Reportedly Google did not make Honeycomb "open source" because it was created with tablets in mind: _"Android 3.0, Honeycomb, was designed from the ground up for devices with larger screen sizes and improves on Android favorites such as widgets, multi-tasking, browsing, notifications and customization," a company spokesman told us. "While we're excited to offer these new features to Android tablets, *we have more work to do before we can deliver them to other device types including phones. Until then, we've decided not to release Honeycomb to open source.*"_

Sounds like the _next _iteration of Android (Ice Cream) will be the Google equivalent of iOS.

Here's what Google's Eric Schmidt said in February: _"[...] the next version of Android, which will "start with an I [and] be named after a dessert", will combine the current Gingerbread release for phones (Android version 2.3 and 2.4) with Honeycomb for tablets (version 3.0) into a single OS."_


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Reportedly Google did not make Honeycomb "open source" because it was created with tablets in mind: _"Android 3.0, Honeycomb, was designed from the ground up for devices with larger screen sizes and improves on Android favorites such as widgets, multi-tasking, browsing, notifications and customization," a company spokesman told us. "While we're excited to offer these new features to Android tablets, *we have more work to do before we can deliver them to other device types including phones. Until then, we've decided not to release Honeycomb to open source.*"_
> 
> Sounds like the _next _iteration of Android (Ice Cream) will be the Google equivalent of iOS.
> 
> Here's what Google's Eric Schmidt said in February: _"[...] the next version of Android, which will "start with an I [and] be named after a dessert", will combine the current Gingerbread release for phones (Android version 2.3 and 2.4) with Honeycomb for tablets (version 3.0) into a single OS."_


Doesn't that make it tough on app developers with the different flavors out there?

Might explain the results of this survey.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Doesn't that make it tough on app developers with the different flavors out there?
> 
> Might explain the results of this survey.


Prolly so, at least until Ice Cream gets out the door. That said, rumors are it could be as early as June.


----------



## bobnielsen

CyanogenMod 7 (a hack of Gingerbread) has some added tablet features.


----------



## Doug Brott

rich584 said:


> Well, the Acer sure isn't the answer. Very buggy. Going back tomorrow. The apps that work so well on my Droid don't work so well on the Acer. And that's just the beginning of the story...
> 
> Rich


Stick with the proven commodity ..


----------



## raott

Anyone holding out on the Asus because of the lack of a USB port on the tablet, it looks like Asus has released an accessory to solve that issue. I'm also reading a female to female USB connector is also a partial solution.

http://tabletcrunch.com/2011/04/27/accessories-released-for-the-new-asus-eee-pad-transformer/


----------



## spartanstew

raott said:


> For anyone interested, here is a valid coupon code for Target for the Transformer for $40 off.
> 
> TCA27BAR
> 
> http://www.target.com/Transformer-Android-Tablet-TF101-A1-Memory/dp/B004U78J1G
> 
> Edit: I just looked at Tblazer beat me to it.


Keep in mind that if you're planning on getting the keyboard dock anyway, you're probably better off waiting.

In another month or so, you''l be able to save $50 by purchasing the Transformer and keyboard dock together ($500 total), so this deal is really only saving about $5 - $10, if there's no other deals then.


----------



## Rich

Doug Brott said:


> Stick with the proven commodity ..


As soon as I find one, I will. Meanwhile...

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet

No kidding. If I had decided to wait until Best Buy honored my reservation (made March 12) I'd still be waiting.


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> No kidding. If I had decided to wait until Best Buy honored my reservation (made March 12) I'd still be waiting.


I can't believe how hard it is to get an iPad2. I've offered bribes, nothing works. Now I want one just so that I can say I actually got one.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Prolly so, at least until Ice Cream gets out the door. That said, rumors are it could be as early as June.


After returning the Acer this morning, I was looking at the 7" Samsung again and that's a nice size. But, as you've said, the new 10" Galaxy will be a second generation device and I'd kick myself if I didn't wait. Oh well...

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> I can't believe how hard it is to get an iPad2. I've offered bribes, nothing works. Now I want one just so that I can say I actually got one.
> 
> Rich


Didn't you have one and then returned it? Can't remember.

Most of my friends have had no difficulty ordering through Apple. They had their iPad 2's within 2 weeks.


----------



## spartanstew

Chris Blount said:


> Didn't you have one and then returned it? Can't remember.
> 
> Most of my friends have had no difficulty ordering through Apple. They had their iPad 2's within 2 weeks.


Clearly Stuart's not your friend.


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> Didn't you have one and then returned it? Can't remember..


iPad1. Felt left behind.



> Most of my friends have had no difficulty ordering through Apple. They had their iPad 2's within 2 weeks.


I'm gonna wait until the Sammy 10" Galaxy comes out. Then, if I don't like that, I'll order an iPad2. Should be just in time for the iPad3 to be released.

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet

For the record, I reserved with Best Buy the day after they came out, and after 5 weeks of waiting I bought mine at Toys "R" Us. Still no call from Best Buy though...


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> After returning the Acer this morning, I was looking at the 7" Samsung again and that's a nice size. But, as you've said, the new 10" Galaxy will be a second generation device and I'd kick myself if I didn't wait. Oh well...


Plus it's as thin and light as the iPad2. After using my wife's for extended periods, I really believe (lack of) size matters. Just my .02.

That said, if you haven't tried an iPad2, you might want to try it first. I have to say, it's pretty sweet. And this is coming from a guy who wanted the Xoom.


----------



## Laxguy

Stuart Sweet said:


> For the record, I reserved with Best Buy the day after they came out, and after 5 weeks of waiting I bought mine at Toys "R" Us. Still no call from Best Buy though...


As did I, re BB. But I also ordered "late", that is about six hours after the web site was opened. While it said there'd be a 3 week or so delay, I got mine via FedEx within ten days, that is, IIRC....:sure:


----------



## Laxguy

I did get a call from BB about ten days ago, and they weren't surprised to learn I had already received mine from Apple.


----------



## Steve

I ordered a 16GB black WiFi iPad2 from Apple on 4/19. It's for my son-in-law's b'day on 5/16. The original estimated delivery date was 5/11. Fingers-crossed that's still a good date!

*EDIT:* Just got a notification it shipped and will arrive 5/5, so just over 2 weeks from order to front door.


----------



## klang

ASUS Eee Pad Transformer fans might be in for a bit of a wait.


----------



## FHSPSU67

raott said:


> Anyone holding out on the Asus because of the lack of a USB port on the tablet, it looks like Asus has released an accessory to solve that issue. I'm also reading a female to female USB connector is also a partial solution.
> 
> http://tabletcrunch.com/2011/04/27/accessories-released-for-the-new-asus-eee-pad-transformer/


Not understanding this. There is NO USB support at all on the tablet, but there are two full USB ports on the docking station/keyboard. There is a micro SD slot on the tablet for additional storage, and the docking/charging slot.
I have mine ordered anyway


----------



## raott

FHSPSU67 said:


> Not understanding this. There is NO USB support at all on the tablet, but there are two full USB ports on the docking station/keyboard. There is a micro SD slot on the tablet for additional storage, and the docking/charging slot.
> I have mine ordered anyway


The accessory links the 40 pin connector on one side with a female USB on the other side. Allowing the tablet to connect with a USB device (such as a USB stick) without needing the dock.

The female to female adapter option simply allows the USB end of the provided cable to plug into the adapter (rather than a PC) and then an accessory such as a USB stick to be plugged in to the other end of the adapter.


----------



## raott

klang said:


> ASUS Eee Pad Transformer fans might be in for a bit of a wait.


I'm reading reports that Target is cancelling orders.


----------



## FHSPSU67

raott said:


> The accessory links the 40 pin connector on one side with a female USB on the other side. Allowing the tablet to connect with a USB device (such as a USB stick) without needing the dock.
> 
> The female to female adapter option simply allows the USB end of the provided cable to plug into the adapter (rather than a PC) and then an accessory such as a USB stick to be plugged in to the other end of the adapter.


I'm very sorry In reading (mis-reading) your link I thought it was the docking station/keyboard being talked about. It is indeed the IPD2 desktop stand pictured here: Many thanks!
http://liliputing.com/2011/04/asus-unveils-line-of-eee-pad-transformer-accessories.html/epd2


----------



## Rich

I gotta admit I'm kinda enamored by the 7" Sammy Galaxy. I have read revues knocking them for not having all the bells and whistles and not being as fast as the Xooms and iPads. The size intrigues me most of all. I thought it would be too small, but it seems to be very usable and less cumbersome than the 10" tablets.

Does anyone know if the new 10" Galaxy will have a new, updated, 7" model accompanying it?

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Does anyone know if the new 10" Galaxy will have a new, updated, 7" model accompanying it?
> 
> Rich


Oddly, IMHO, there's supposed to be an 8.9" model coming out a month later for ~ $50 less. Unless it's a different aspect ratio, I'm not sure why they decided to make another model ony 1.2" different. :scratchin

If you like the current Sammy 7" and _don't_ need 3G, I think the Nook Color is a better deal at $250. They both run Android FroYo.

I love their newest ad, BTW.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Oddly, IMHO, there's supposed to be an 8.9" model coming out a month later for ~ $50 less. Unless it's a different aspect ratio, I'm not sure why they decided to make another model ony 1.2" different. :scratchin
> 
> If you like the current Sammy 7" and _don't_ need 3G, I think the Nook Color is a better deal at $250. They both run Android FroYo.
> 
> I love their newest ad, BTW.


Just got an iPad2, gotta see how this works.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Just got an iPad2, gotta see how this works.


I just loaded HBO GO on mine. Pretty sweet.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> I ordered a 16GB black WiFi iPad2 from Apple on 4/19. It's for my son-in-law's b'day on 5/16. The original estimated delivery date was 5/11. Fingers-crossed that's still a good date!
> 
> *EDIT:* Just got a notification it shipped and will arrive 5/5, so just over 2 weeks from order to front door.


They revised the delivery date once again. It's still in China, but now scheduled for May 9 delivery to NY. So more like 3 weeks from date of order.

_Chengdu, China	05/05/2011	6:57 P.M.	The airline off-loaded packages. / Released by Clearing Agency. Now in-transit for delivery._


----------



## Laxguy

Steve said:


> I just loaded HBO GO on mine. Pretty sweet.


Ain't it, though! I just learned you can fill the screen by using the two finger spread!


----------



## spartanstew

That's what she said.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> They revised the delivery date once again. It's still in China, but now scheduled for May 9 delivery to NY. So more like 3 weeks from date of order.
> 
> _Chengdu, China	05/05/2011	6:57 P.M.	The airline off-loaded packages. / Released by Clearing Agency. Now in-transit for delivery._


Got mine at Target. I gotta go back and find out who posted those links to the iPad searches and thank him.

At Target, you get a 90 day return option.

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

I was in Best buy today and played with a Xoom. Didn't even bother playing with the smaller tablets, they're just so tiny. I picked one up and dropped it right back on the table. 

Impressions from an iPad 2 user:

Responsiveness wasn't what I expected. It seems slow to load even Opera. May just be because this one had a ton of crap installed on it. Moving between screens was quick and slick looking too. 
It seemed awfully thick and heavy. 
Screen was gorgeous. 
Aspect ratio was just odd. 
Home screen layout seemed clunky. Way too much going on there. 

Much of this is probably because I've been using an iPad for a while now and I'd probably get used to it... But I love the simplicity I have now. 

Sincerely, 

Happy iPad owner.

P.S. It's feast or famine help-wise in that store. Go to the computer section and you're left alone. Go to the Magnolia or TV section and you get stalked... happens every time in my local store.


----------



## TBlazer07

Meritline.com has a refurb Sprint Galaxy tab w/3G for $339.

Yea, the Target ASUS deals all got cancelled. Probably because everyone was getting $60 off list.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Still think the Toshiba and/or Amazon Android tablets will be the main iPad competition. Got to play with the ASUS that a work associate bought, and was actually pretty impressed. 

The build was very good, the screen resolution superior to any iPad, and the speed of the OS was very fast. Unfortunately, I only got to putz with it for about 20 minutes...the owner had to leave for some work meetings.


----------



## Sixto

They continue worldwide: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/05/06/ipad-2-launches-in-china-to-long-lines-and-sellouts/​Man, the logistics on this all must be quite complicated. Multiple models, countries, languages, cellular providers, ...


----------



## Laxguy

spartanstew said:


> That's what she said.


Baaaaaaaaaaaad!


----------



## Laxguy

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Still think the Toshiba and/or Amazon Android tablets will be the main iPad competition. Got to play with the ASUS that a work associate bought, and was actually pretty impressed.
> 
> The build was very good, the screen resolution superior to any iPad, and the speed of the OS was very fast. Unfortunately, I only got to putz with it for about 20 minutes...the owner had to leave for some work meetings.


It's "futz", putz! 

Those who may know enough Yiddish to interpret what I said should also know I consider the 'fan to be a pal, and 98% sure he'll laugh rather than be insulted.......


----------



## bobukcat

tcusta00 said:


> I was in Best buy today and played with a Xoom. Didn't even bother playing with the smaller tablets, they're just so tiny. I picked one up and dropped it right back on the table.
> 
> Impressions from an iPad 2 user:
> 
> Responsiveness wasn't what I expected. It seems slow to load even Opera. May just be because this one had a ton of crap installed on it. Moving between screens was quick and slick looking too.
> It seemed awfully thick and heavy.
> Screen was gorgeous.
> Aspect ratio was just odd.
> Home screen layout seemed clunky. Way too much going on there.
> 
> Much of this is probably because I've been using an iPad for a while now and I'd probably get used to it... But I love the simplicity I have now.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Happy iPad owner.
> 
> P.S. It's feast or famine help-wise in that store. Go to the computer section and you're left alone. Go to the Magnolia or TV section and you get stalked... happens every time in my local store.


Good observations, as a Xoom user I will say I find the aspect ratio on my wife's iPad to be weird - like anything else I get you get used to it.

I agree with the thick and heavy part compared to an iPad.

I have been underwhelmed by the browser performance, just expect better.

One nice thing about Android - if you don't like the home screen layout you just change it. In fact you could have absolutely NOTHING on your home screens and just access all apps from the application drawer (don't know anyone that likes things THAT minimalistic but I was just making a point). I still think Widgets are a major advantage for the Android platform.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Laxguy said:


> It's "futz", putz!
> 
> Those who may know enough Yiddish to interpret what I said should also know I consider the 'fan to be a pal, and 98% sure he'll laugh rather than be insulted.......


It's "putzing" around in many parts Mr. Webster. :lol:

"Random acts of hands-on manipulation, activities trial, and performance review" just seemed waaaay to long to describe it. 

Don't be a Yutz. !rolling


----------



## Rich

Sixto said:


> iPad2 is in the house. Finally, all is good again, after eBay'ing the iPad1.
> 
> Woohoo!
> 
> I did learn during this effort that it's not an easy task yet to get an iPad2, after checking almost daily with the local Apple Stores, Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Radio Shack, and AT&T.
> 
> There are a few good links for others trying:Best Buy Tracker: http://obamapacman.com/2011/03/best-buy-ipad-2-inventory-availability-tracker/
> 
> Radio Shack / Target iPad2 Tracker: http://www.ipad2locator.com/
> 
> Walmart iPad2 Tracker: http://www.walmart.com/cp/Apple-iPad-2/1085165
> 
> Target Scanner: http://cristianradu.com/ipad_scanner/​The Best Buy Tracker came through!


I got an iPad2 yesterday using your links. Bought it at a Target.

Just wanted to say "Thanx".

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> I got an iPad2 yesterday using your links. Bought it at a Target.
> 
> Just wanted to say "Thanx".
> 
> Rich


I haven't looked through the thread but have you done your official iPad 2 report?


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> I haven't looked through the thread but have you done your official iPad 2 report?


I figured I'd wait a week or so, but I can tell you this: It's different from the iPad1 that I had. And it was cheaper. $499. I think I paid $599 for the iPad1. I bought a couple accessories for it today, so it looks like a keeper, so far. One thing of great importance to me is it's ability to pick up my router in places where that Acer couldn't. And I feel no remorse about buying it. Let me play with it for a week or so and I'll get back with all my feelings about it. I'm pretty satisfied right now.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

A bit of a warning for anyone considering a Samsung tablet, it appears that the Wi-Fi only versions are using a less powerful GPU and a slower processor than the WWAN versions even though the published specs don't appear to reflect that.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> A bit of a warning for anyone considering a Samsung tablet, it appears that the Wi-Fi only versions are using a less powerful GPU and a slower processor than the WWAN versions even though the published specs don't appear to reflect that.


I'm not sure that kind of blanket statement applies. The specs on the rumored Amazon tablet are not *exactly* the same in terms of hardware components.

Each tablet should be evaluated on its own merits, which is what most folks here have been doing.


----------



## Laxguy

K
I asked for it......!

From my iPhone via DBSTalk


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm not sure that kind of blanket statement applies. The specs on the rumored Amazon tablet are not *exactly* the same in terms of hardware components.
> 
> Each tablet should be evaluated on its own merits, which is what most folks here have been doing.


Not sure what the Amazon tablet has to do with my post, I specifically said the Samsung tablets and I should have been more specific and said the Wi-Fi only Samsung Galaxy Tab has different GPU and processor than the WWAN version.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/04/wifi-galaxy-tab-running-on-an-older-cpu-than-its-3g-siblings/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> Not sure what the Amazon tablet has to do with my post, I specifically said the Samsung tablets and I should have been more specific and said the Wi-Fi only Samsung Galaxy Tab has different GPU and processor than the WWAN version.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/04/wifi-galaxy-tab-running-on-an-older-cpu-than-its-3g-siblings/


Samsung is expected to be the manufacturer for the Amazon Android-based tablet.


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Samsung is expected to be the manufacturer for the Amazon Android-based tablet.


Expected by whom?

This PCWorld story says it may be Quanta Computer.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> This PCWorld story says it may be Quanta Computer.


Makes sense. Quanta also reportedly has partnered with RIM (Playbook?) and Sony (e-book readers?) and are bidding to make Lenovo's "LePad" tablets.

It'll be interesting to see if Amazon comes out with a 10.1" tablet to compete with Motorola, Samsung and Apple, or a 7" tablet to compete with the Barnes & Noble Nook Color, which, like the 7" Samsung tablet, now runs FroYo. B&N is also expected to announce a new gadget on May 24th. Will be interesting to see if it's another full-featured tablet, or a simple e-book reader.


----------



## Shades228

Steve said:


> Makes sense. Quanta also reportedly has partnered with RIM (Playbook?) and Sony (e-book readers?) and are bidding to make Lenovo's "LePad" tablets.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see if Amazon comes out with a 10.1" tablet to compete with Motorola, Samsung and Apple, or a 7" tablet to compete with the Barnes & Noble Nook Color, which, like the 7" Samsung tablet, now runs FroYo. B&N is also expected to announce a new gadget on May 24th. Will be interesting to see if it's another full-featured tablet, or a simple e-book reader.


The BN device wil be a 10" Nook Color. I would guess they put a 1ghz snapdragon in it instead of the 800 they have it the 7".


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Expected by whom?
> 
> This PCWorld story says it may be Quanta Computer.


Could be,...I read rumors (only) in two other reports Samsung was in negotiations for it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

As someone else posted (correctly), the Quanta Corp agreement was signed last month apparently. So the build process for a 3Q or so release of the Android v3.0 Honeycomb-based tablet branded by Amazon is proceeding. Apparently Samsung was in the final running but did not get the deal.

On another front...the ASUS Android tablets are in short supply due to parts availability (Japan earthquake).

Here is a more current hands-on review of the Android v3.0-based ASUS TRANSFORMER tablet.

http://www.slashgear.com/asus-eee-pad-transformer-review-03149807/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

One key need for many users is to emulate a number of laptop functions, especially to position the tablet as at least a part-time laptop replacement in the business world.

Here's an interesting view on tablets in general, from a business-use perspective. [Information Week is a respected IT professional trade publication used in many industries]:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal-tech/tablets/229402925

I've had recent discussions with my IT folks about the requirements and availability for company secure e-mail and VPN-type access. Based on the feedback to date...it appears that even for the largest Fortune 500 companies...this stuff is pretty new.

What I have been told is that anything Apple will not be supported in the near term, as there are various support and application/data security concerns for the iOS-based devices.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*ASUS working on Tegra Quad processor Android tablets*?

With the early rollouts of Android 3-based tablets (all using the Tegra 2 chipset), it appears that the envelope might even be pushed further using a newer chipset this year...

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/05/asus-tegra-3-tablets/

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/04/asus-planning-quad-core-tegra-3-and-intel-based-tablets/

http://phandroid.com/2011/02/16/nvidia-quad-core-android-tablet-codenamed-kal-el-video/



> - NVIDIA's Quad Core already enjoys 5X better performance than current Tegra 2 (Dual Core) processors
> - Tegra 2 is multiple times more efficient than single core processors, meaning Quad Core is exponentially better than processors in most of the hottest Android handsets currently on the market
> - Because power consumption is split across 4 cores and 1 core isn't overworked with lots of heavy lifting, each core is more often in a "resting" or "relaxed" state which exerts less energy. Bottom line? Longer battery life.
> - Everything you do on your phone - web browsing, video watching, game playing, multi-tasking and beyond - will have improved speed and clarity with Quad Core


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> A bit of a warning for anyone considering a Samsung tablet, it appears that the Wi-Fi only versions are using a less powerful GPU and a slower processor than the WWAN versions even though the published specs don't appear to reflect that.


I read about that the other day, too. Just when I became interested in the Wi-Fi version. Very discouraging.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm not sure that kind of blanket statement applies. The specs on the rumored Amazon tablet are not *exactly* the same in terms of hardware components.
> 
> Each tablet should be evaluated on its own merits, which is what most folks here have been doing.


This is a case of seemingly deliberately misleading information, tho. Not normal in the small world of tablets.

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Not sure what the Amazon tablet has to do with my post, I specifically said the Samsung tablets and I should have been more specific and said the Wi-Fi only Samsung Galaxy Tab has different GPU and processor than the WWAN version.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/04/wifi-galaxy-tab-running-on-an-older-cpu-than-its-3g-siblings/


That wasn't where I read about it. Appears the word is spreading about the Galaxy. Sammy does some strange, deliberate things at times. Remember the too small capacitors in their TVs?

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> This is a case of seemingly deliberately misleading information, tho. Not normal in the small world of tablets.
> 
> Rich


Agree.

That's specifically why I cited blanket statements being less-than-desirable in many cases.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Makes sense. Quanta also reportedly has partnered with RIM (Playbook?) and Sony (e-book readers?) and are bidding to make Lenovo's "LePad" tablets.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see if Amazon comes out with a 10.1" tablet to compete with Motorola, Samsung and Apple, or a 7" tablet to compete with the Barnes & Noble Nook Color, which, like the 7" Samsung tablet, now runs FroYo. B&N is also expected to announce a new gadget on May 24th. Will be interesting to see if it's another full-featured tablet, or a simple e-book reader.


I was looking at the books on my new iPad yesterday and I gotta admit I don't get it. For years, I went to the big book stores and marveled at the people buying books and wondered why they would spend money on them when the same books are available at no cost in a library.

Now, with the libraries all hooked up to the Net, I have to wonder why anyone would buy a book to download to a computer or tablet. I used to do a lot of traveling for business reasons and I always took a few books with me. Never minded that.

A library is one of the few places where "free" actually means "free" in every sense of the word. I just don't get paying for books. If I had bought all the books I've read in the last ten years, I'd be adding another room to the house for them.

Wonderful place, libraries.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree.
> 
> That's specifically why I cited blanket statements being less-than-desirable in many cases.


It's really a shame that they would do that. I was getting ready to give one a try, I really liked the 7" format. Then I started reading reports about differences in what should be a standard and became wary of them.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> It's really a shame that they would do that. I was getting ready to give one a try, I really liked the 7" format. Then I started reading reports about differences in what should be a standard and became wary of them.
> 
> Rich


I continue to read that both the 7" and 10" tablet form factors will be out there for some time.

In terms of the eBook reading observations...I see plenty of that as I travel on flights extensively each year.

I've made it a point to ask folks how they like their reading devices, and suprisingly, I get a 50/50 response - half love it and half are thinking of returning to conventional books for more than just one single reason. :shrug:


----------



## BudShark

Ebooks are available at your library and are supporting more digital platforms by the day including tablets. Now you can be in an airport, decide you want a different book, and bam... There you go.


----------



## BudShark

My wife and I both prefer reading on tablets. Also, the last 5 magazines I received went straight to the recycle bin. If there was a way to tell them to stop sending the hard copy, i would. But neither company wants to do that. So they spend money to print and ship, and then I only look at the magazine on my iPad.


----------



## Steve

BudShark said:


> Ebooks are available at your library and are supporting more digital platforms by the day including tablets. Now you can be in an airport, decide you want a different book, and bam... There you go.


Agree. Thanks to Overdrive, I've been "borrowing" audiobooks from our county's e-library system for the past 5-6 years, IIRC. E-books are also available, except for the Kindle, though I understand that is finally changing.


----------



## Sixto

Love eBooks. Throughout my lifetime, unfortunately I've not been a bigger reader.

Lately, with the iPad, I've read more books then in the last decade, or maybe two.

Just last night, saw that local Coach wrote a book, and within 30 seconds the book was on the iPad (via the Kindle App) and I made it through the first chapter last night.

And my wife and I share my Amazon ID, so anything I buy is also available to download and share on her device (Kindle).

Cool use of technology.

Too bad it wasn't available as a kid, I may have read more.


----------



## Steve

BudShark said:


> My wife and I both prefer reading on tablets. Also, the last 5 magazines I received went straight to the recycle bin. If there was a way to tell them to stop sending the hard copy, i would. But neither company wants to do that. So they spend money to print and ship, and then I only look at the magazine on my iPad.


No one I know buys paperbacks any more, no less hard covers. As a result, it's become a zero-sum game for both Amazon and B&N. In case you missed it, I love B&N's latest Nook Color commercial.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I continue to read that both the 7" and 10" tablet form factors will be out there for some time.
> 
> In terms of the eBook reading observations...I see plenty of that as I travel on flights extensively each year.
> 
> I've made it a point to ask folks how they like their reading devices, and suprisingly, I get a 50/50 response - half love it and half are thinking of returning to conventional books for more than just one single reason. :shrug:


That's surprising. Most folks that buy something don't admit that they don't like it. I can see the tablets as a viable platform to read a book from, but you still have to pay for the book.

My library system is starting to have free downloads of books available now. Just in it's infancy, but it's coming. I would give that a try. I live just a brisk walk from my library and it has evolved into an Internet cafe. It now allows eating and drinking, has diner booths and tables in one section and is now more of a community center. I think this is a good thing.

Our new Governor tried to take funding away from libraries as soon as he got into office and the uproar caused him to back down from that idea really quickly. Gotta give the guy credit for that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> No one I know buys paperbacks any more, no less hard covers. As a result, it's become a zero-sum game for both Amazon and B&N. In case you missed it, I love B&N's latest Nook Color commercial.


Nice commercial. Unfortunately the latest generation of kids don't read as much as we did/do (this is obviously a generalization). When my son was in grammar school, we had a meeting with the principle about his "problems". I told her that he wasn't motivated to read or study and she disagreed. I asked her how many of her students had read _Moby Dick_. Her reply (one I'll never forget), "In grammar school?!"

Told her I read it in grammar school and she couldn't believe it. But I gotta admit I was motivated because there wasn't much else to do at the time...

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Nice commercial. Unfortunately the latest generation of kids don't read as much as we did/do [...]


Agree. Those I know who've given up paper for e-ink are all life-long readers. That's probably why, in that commercial, they're trying to show kids that other kids read. It also doesn't help, IMHO, that shows like _The Middle_ or _Modern Family_ often portray the kid who reads as "nerdy".


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Agree, which is probably why, in that commercial, they're trying to show that other kids read. It also doesn't help, IMHO, in shows like _The Middle_ or _Modern Family_, that the kid who reads is sometimes portrayed as "nerdy".


That always bothers me too. I was the first person in my class (third grade) to wear glasses and became an instant "nerd" (not sure what the term was at the time).

Rich


----------



## elaclair

rich584 said:


> That always bothers me too. I was the first person in my class (third grade) to wear glasses and became an instant "nerd" (not sure what the term was at the time).
> 
> Rich


When I was growing up, (middle 60's middle America) they were called geeks. Which today I find incredibly amusing since the meaning then has very little to do with the meaning now.....


----------



## AttiTech

elaclair said:


> When I was growing up, (middle 60's middle America) they were called geeks. Which today I find incredibly amusing since the meaning then has very little to do with the meaning now.....


The geek shall inherit the earth


----------



## DarkSkies

rich584 said:


> A library is one of the few places where "free" actually means "free" in every sense of the word. I just don't get paying for books. If I had bought all the books I've read in the last ten years, I'd be adding another room to the house for them.
> 
> Wonderful place, libraries.
> 
> Rich


I agree they are, but they are not free everywhere. We pay a pretty hefty tax for our public libraries, but I think the tax is worth it.

I do see challenges for the libraries with eBooks, though, as many publishers have moved to a new model where eBooks may only be licensed for one year with 12 or 24 loans. That's going to cost libraries a lot of money in turnover, to renew licenses annually. It's not every publisher doing this, but if it becomes more prevalent I can see libraries opting to drop eBooks from those publishers...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That's surprising. Most folks that buy something don't admit that they don't like it. I can see the tablets as a viable platform to read a book from, but you still have to pay for the book.


Agree - that's what continues to be surprising...I have heard everything from "it's too hard to read in the wrong light", "my eyes get tired sooner with a tablet reader", and "I thought I'd like it because a friend recommended it, but I really don't now that I've had one for a while".

The majority I see are Kindles, with some iPads and a few other devices.

I suspect I'd read plenty of non-book content on a tablet (when the day comes to get one), but my wife is the book meister - averaging 2+ books per week. She has told me repeatedly - "I will never read anything but a real book - ever - so don't waste your money getting me one of those readers".

Making things even more interesting is that I get dragged along to many author book-signings (the book pack-mule). We've had over 1000 books signed, and met over 60 Best-seller authors. *Not one author *has had kind words for the tablet readers - not one. In some cases, the audience at these was polled, and 90% were opposed to eBooks.

They all acknowledge some folks clearly like them, but 8-9 authors have repeated the same statistic that their publisher has told them that they'll never sell more than 15% of their books in eBook form - that's the estimated peak market.

All the authors indicated that their publishers are not optimistic on them, and have strong concerns about copyright and revenue infringement.

I have no idea if those views are going to come to pass, but I can understand some of the reasoning behind it.

My use of a tablet would not require any significant eBook reading.


----------



## klang

Survey from last November shows 75% of Kindle owners 'Very Satisfied'.

I can understand some authors and publishers not being in favor of eBooks. They probably aren't making as much $. The horse seems to be out of the barn already though.


----------



## Rich

DarkSkies said:


> I agree they are, but they are not free everywhere. We pay a pretty hefty tax for our public libraries, but I think the tax is worth it.
> 
> I do see challenges for the libraries with eBooks, though, as many publishers have moved to a new model where eBooks may only be licensed for one year with 12 or 24 loans. That's going to cost libraries a lot of money in turnover, to renew licenses annually. It's not every publisher doing this, but if it becomes more prevalent I can see libraries opting to drop eBooks from those publishers...


They even make that difficult? I thought that would save libraries. :nono2:

Rich


----------



## Shades228

klang said:


> Survey from last November shows 75% of Kindle owners 'Very Satisfied'.
> 
> I can understand some authors and publishers not being in favor of eBooks. They probably aren't making as much $. The horse seems to be out of the barn already though.


Authors and publishers just saw what happened to every medium that has been digitized. It's pirated or devalued in the eyes of the consumer. They know that if this starts to take over they will be in the same boat the music company's were.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Agree - that's what continues to be surprising...I have heard everything from "it's too hard to read in the wrong light", "my eyes get tired sooner with a tablet reader", and "I thought I'd like it because a friend recommended it, but I really don't now that I've had one for a while".
> 
> The majority I see are Kindles, with some iPads and a few other devices.
> 
> I suspect I'd read plenty of non-book content on a tablet (when the day comes to get one), but my wife is the book meister - averaging 2+ books per week. She has told me repeatedly - "I will never read anything but a real book - ever - so don't waste your money getting me one of those readers".
> 
> Making things even more interesting is that I get dragged along to many author book-signings (the book pack-mule). We've had over 1000 books signed, and met over 60 Best-seller authors. *Not one author *has had kind words for the tablet readers - not one. In some cases, the audience at these was polled, and 90% were opposed to eBooks.
> 
> They all acknowledge some folks clearly like them, but 8-9 authors have repeated the same statistic that their publisher has told them that they'll never sell more than 15% of their books in eBook form - that's the estimated peak market.
> 
> All the authors indicated that their publishers are not optimistic on them, and have strong concerns about copyright and revenue infringement.
> 
> I have no idea if those views are going to come to pass, but I can understand some of the reasoning behind it.
> 
> My use of a tablet would not require any significant eBook reading.


I told my wife the same thing about Kindles and their ilk. I want books to stay as they are. And I do think reading from a tablet like screen would get tiring after a while. I can't imagine the authors and publishing houses not getting very upset about all this.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Shades228 said:


> Authors and publishers just saw what happened to every medium that has been digitized. It's pirated or devalued in the eyes of the consumer. They know that if this starts to take over they will be in the same boat the music company's were.


There must be ways to copy a book, right? From a computer, I mean.

Rich


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Survey from last November shows 75% of Kindle owners 'Very Satisfied'.


That's consistent with my own experience. We love our Kindle, especially my non-technical wife. No going back here.



> I can understand some authors and publishers not being in favor of eBooks. They probably aren't making as much $. The horse seems to be out of the barn already though.


And the barn door is closing quickly. It's publishers who are most threatened by the e-book model, because it threatens to make them irrelevant once e-reading devices become ubiquitous. Writers, OTOH, can now "self publish" e-books with Amazon or B&N and keep 60%-70% of the sale, instead of the average 10%-15% royalties they now get from printed copies.


----------



## DarkSkies

klang said:


> Survey from last November shows 75% of Kindle owners 'Very Satisfied'.
> 
> I can understand some authors and publishers not being in favor of eBooks. They probably aren't making as much $. The horse seems to be out of the barn already though.


Agreed. Even Stephen King acknowledges electronic publishing is here to stay. As he says, a book is just a delivery method, it's the content, the story, that matters.

I've never met a Kindle owner who was not satisfied and who didn't tell me that they now read more books than they did before they got their Kindle.

Schools are moving to requirements for having tablets or laptops, libraries are moving to ebooks, and it's a trend that will grow, not diminish over time.


----------



## Sixto

"Steve" said:


> That's consistent with my own experience. We love our Kindle, especially my non-technical wife. No going back here.
> 
> And the barn door is closing quickly. It's publishers who are most threatened by the e-book model, because it threatens to make them irrelevant once e-reading devices become ubiquitous. Writers, OTOH, can now "self publish" e-books with Amazon or B&N and keep 60%-70% of the sale, instead of the average 10%-15% royalties they now get from printed copies.


Same here.

Very non-technical wife, loves her pink Kindle, takes it everywhere with her.

Many examples lately of those who dislike something that really haven't tried it. Have even surprised myself lately.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I told my wife the same thing about Kindles and their ilk. I want books to stay as they are. And I do think reading from a tablet like screen would get tiring after a while. I can't imagine the authors and publishing houses not getting very upset about all this.


They are, rest assured.


DarkSkies said:


> Agreed. Even Stephen King acknowledges electronic publishing is here to stay.





Sixto said:


> Same here.
> 
> Very non-technical wife, loves her pink Kindle, takes it everywhere with her.


Here to stay and successful are two different things.

Many avid book readers do not care for eBooks - I've seen hundreds and hundreds of them clearly express that at author book-signings.

The best estimates by the large publishing houses themselves are that the market penetration will be no more than 15% - authors themselves have repeated said they know some folks will want the eBook version, but they personally do not promote nor favor them.

It typically takes them 1-2 years to write a novel, and they simply believe that there is too great a risk of losing the potential return on their work through bootlegged copies being distributed.

Even some of those who have adopted tablets for eBooks admit a fatigue factor comes into play with that presentation of books.

It comes down to personal preferences obviously.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*Google Earth Updated for Android Tablets:*

http://techland.time.com/2011/05/06/google-earth-updated-for-android-tablets/

The higher resolution of the Android v3.0 tablets and their processing power provide a real benefit for this application, as it does for HD video.


----------



## phrelin

Historically, as long as you had a library that had a budget big enough to get the books you want there's nothing like a library.

On the other hand, I have lived much of my life where there was no such well-stocked library. Yeah, there was the inter-library loan so someday you could get the book you want ... someday.

I currently live in a location where the library is not hooked up to the net and where the County may have to close much of its library system (or quit providing law enforcement except for federally funded drug enforcement.)

Rich is quite right when he notes: 'If I had bought all the books I've read in the last ten years, I'd be adding another room to the house for them." We have bookshelves covering walls filled with dusty books and don't have any room for more. That's the advantage of my wife and I each having an iPad. We use the Kindle app and are always buying books - sometimes for as little as 99¢. They don't take any wall space.

I don't get the authors' gripes about the ebook. We're avid readers. I'd be the first to admit I wouldn't pay $29.95 for a novel, but I'd pay $9.99 each for 10 novels over a couple of months. I would, except I didn't get to the book store often enough to do that. Now I am at the store every time I turn on my iPad. So I'll buy more books. More authors get more royalties from sales to me and I assume to others because the store is in my home and I can buy a new book from any room in the house where I was reading and finished a book, any room.:sure:


----------



## klang

I've seen no evidence that authors are opposed to eBooks. I follow a number of authors through websites, blogs, etc. and what I've seen is quite the opposite.

I agree with phrelin that I don't have room to store anymore books. With few exceptions I rarely reread a book. I've been slowly donating my collection to Goodwill. With the Kindle and Amazon, every book I've purchased is archived on their servers if I want to read one again. I've got 71 books in my archive at the moment.


----------



## Rich

"phrelin" said:


> Historically, as long as you had a library that had a budget big enough to get the books you want there's nothing like a library.
> 
> On the other hand, I have lived much of my life where there was no such well-stocked library. Yeah, there was the inter-library loan so someday you could get the book you want ... someday.
> 
> I currently live in a location where the library is not hooked up to the net and where the County may have to close much of its library system (or quit providing law enforcement except for federally funded drug enforcement.)
> 
> Rich is quite right when he notes: 'If I had bought all the books I've read in the last ten years, I'd be adding another room to the house for them." We have bookshelves covering walls filled with dusty books and don't have any room for more. That's the advantage of my wife and I each having an iPad. We use the Kindle app and are always buying books - sometimes for as little as 99¢. They don't take any wall space.
> 
> I don't get the authors' gripes about the ebook. We're avid readers. I'd be the first to admit I wouldn't pay $29.95 for a novel, but I'd pay $9.99 each for 10 novels over a couple of months. I would, except I didn't get to the book store often enough to do that. Now I am at the store every time I turn on my iPad. So I'll buy more books. More authors get more royalties from sales to me and I assume to others because the store is in my home and I can buy a new book from any room in the house where I was reading and finished a book, any room.:sure:


Geez, you'd really enjoy our library system. If this isn't state of the art, it's pretty close. But I understand your situation and see why you like the Kindles so much.

Rich

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> I've seen no evidence that authors are opposed to eBooks. I follow a number of authors through websites, blogs, etc. and what I've seen is quite the opposite.


Then you need to meet them in person at their tour booksignings. My wife has dragged me to 25 of them in the past 2 years alone, as well as a huge multi-author Book Festival with over 100 top authors.

Forget the blogs...there is plenty on the web on this topic...the authors are also more than happy to disclose their lack of joy about eBooks face-to-face almost every time they are at these events.

I'm personally met and heard these NY Times bestselling authors - just a few examples include Michael Connelly, Nora Roberts, Janet Evanovich, Tim Green, Kathy Reich (of "Bones" fame), Debbie McComber, Terry Brooks, and Lisa Gardner. Not one likes eBooks.

It took John Grisham almost 2 years before he caved in to eBooks - based on a publisher getting him higher-than-average guarantee money for upcoming releases.

That is not to say some people like them. I see readers on flights when I travel all the time...so there is a market for sure. If that purpose is one of many that someone gets a tablet....more power to them.

Here are some cases where authors openly opposed eBooks for various reasons:

http://www.teleread.com/paul-biba/high-profile-authors-petition-against-google-book-settlement/

http://www.piracynetwork.com/music-piracy/author-slams-ebook-piracy-son-outs-her-as-a-music-pirate-torrentfreak.html

To make matters more volatile....Amazon has gotten very aggressive towards publishers regarding eBooks...trying to get them to issue eBooks with low-ball pricing on them for the Kindle:

http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-book-wars-amazon-retaliates-against-publisher-over-ebook-pricing-pulls-books-from-shelves-2010-1

The last issue - piracy of eBooks.

If I spent a year of my life researching and writing a book, the last thing I'd want is my work being pirated all over for free or nearly given away at $7.99 in an eBook.

Perhaps we can put that topic to rest, and move back on target regarding tablets..


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*Lenovo getting into the Android v3.0 tablet arena?*

http://www.pcworld.com/article/226160/rumored_lenovo_thinkpad_tablet_coming_this_summer.html


----------



## spartanstew

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Lenovo getting into the Android v3.0 tablet arena?*
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/226160/rumored_lenovo_thinkpad_tablet_coming_this_summer.html


Actually, Levovo had a Tablet at CES.

Here's a Look


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> Actually, Levovo had a Tablet at CES.
> 
> Here's a Look


They certainly did. It appears that the one referenced in the other article describes a slightly-updated version.

Either way - you are correct that this is yet another in a list of known manufacturers adopting the Honeycomb platform this year. I haven't kept an exact count, but there is a growing list of Android v3 tablets planned for release in 2011.


----------



## tcusta00

"klang" said:


> I've seen no evidence that authors are opposed to eBooks. I follow a number of authors through websites, blogs, etc. and what I've seen is quite the opposite.


I agree. I think the smart authors are realizing the shift.


----------



## Steve

phrelin said:


> I don't get the authors' gripes about the ebook. We're avid readers. I'd be the first to admit I wouldn't pay $29.95 for a novel, but I'd pay $9.99 each for 10 novels over a couple of months. I would, except I didn't get to the book store often enough to do that. Now I am at the store every time I turn on my iPad. So I'll buy more books. More authors get more royalties from sales to me and I assume to others because the store is in my home and I can buy a new book from any room in the house where I was reading and finished a book, any room.:sure:


:up: I've heard from more than one iPad/Kindle/Nook owner that they read more now than ever. Because it's now so convenient to locate, sample and download a book, there's less "down time" in between reads, where life intervenes and you don't have a chance to get to the bookstore or the library. Plus now if you read a review of a book that piques your interest, you're often literally minutes away from owning it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> I agree. I think the *smart authors are realizing the shift*.


The shift may not be as great as some perceive...as over 35 NY Times bestseller authors are strongly opposed, as well as most of the large publishing houses. Don't look for that to change anytime soon.

Amazon's strong-handed approach to low-ball prices will only further separate the camps of those in favor and opposed.

Then there is the piracy issue, which has not be cured.

Some experts think the only long-term solution might be to sell a book in traditional form, and include an option for the eBook at a reduced price. That would seem to address multiple obstacles cited at this time.

While tablet reading works for some...it has several hurdles before it has mainstream acceptance of both readers and content providers.


----------



## klang

> The publishing tide is shifting fast: E-book sales in February topped all other formats, including paperbacks and hardcovers, according to an industry report released this week.


Link


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Link


Thanks for posting some solid facts. It wouldn't surprise me in the next year or so if certain model Kindles and Nooks will be "free", because buying one for $100-$200 will come with a comparable store credit.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Thanks for posting some solid facts. It wouldn't surprise me in the next year or so if certain model Kindles and Nooks will be "free", because buying one for $100-$200 will come with a comparable store credit.


There is already a discounted Kindle available that has ads for the screen savers. $114.


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Amazon's strong-handed approach to low-ball prices will only further separate the camps of those in favor and opposed.


That battle took place about a year ago. Amazon blinked. The publishers are now setting the pricing.


----------



## BudShark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here to stay and successful are two different things.
> 
> Many avid book readers do not care for eBooks - I've seen hundreds and hundreds of them clearly express that at author book-signings.
> 
> The best estimates by the large publishing houses themselves are that the market penetration will be no more than 15% - authors themselves have repeated said they know some folks will want the eBook version, but they personally do not promote nor favor them.


Do you realize how remarkably similar to cd/mp3 vs vinyl these comments sound? The avid collectors and readers are NOT the market that puts food on the table. I think most authors realize the opportunity this gives them, most publishers are scared, and most book stores are trying to find a niche. The times have changed. The technical barriers for some people will be solved through new screen technology and any author/publisher who takes a strong stand against e-publishing will be sitting with their 50 zealots wondering why they only sold 50 physical copies.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> That battle took place about a year ago. Amazon blinked. The publishers are now setting the pricing.


Yup. And perhaps just a temporary victory for publishers, IMHO.

I say that because I think at some point in the very near future, we'll see major authors threatening to self-publish with the likes of Amazon and B&N, so they can set their own prices and keep up to 70% of the sale price (in the US, among other places).

Right now, a best-selling author makes 10%-15% of the sale price, or a fixed negotiated royalty amount. So _maybe _up to $1.50 per copy on a $10-$12 e-book. If that author self-publishes that same book with Amazon and it retails for $5 instead of $10, s/he stands to make $3.50 on that sale. Not to mention the fact the reader saves $5 as well.

So unless they re-invent themselves by selling e-books directly to consumers and compensating authors at a similar rate to Amazon and/or B&N, I think big publishing houses may be destined to go the way of newspapers and magazines. Just my .02.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> That battle took place about a year ago. Amazon blinked. The publishers are now setting the pricing.


Not at all true.

The battle is very much alive, and the publishers are aggressively fighting Amazon's pricing model. Amazon is not the only provider of eBooks either. There is talk among publishers that they may begin to take ownership of eBook sales themselves. I think several posters are seeing a very narrow view, and not the bigger picture.

Author-publisher primary obstacles:
http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/03/ebook-prices-customer-perception.html

eBook quality issues:
http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2010/10/13/authors-and-ebook-problems-expanding-the-net-of-responsibility/

Concerns with library eBooks:
http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/2011/01/18/ebooks-and-libraries-a-stream-of-concerns/

iPad eBook adoption:
http://www.dclab.com/blog/2011/04/many-ipad-owners-not-reading-ebooks-snippet/

There are several publishers who are looking at the balanced solution - printed books with an eBook option or having it also included. Best of all worlds supposedly. The piracy controls also need to be resolved.

So beyond eBooks (which almost 1/2 of iPad users don't even use them for)...what else is driving the tablet market?


----------



## Rich

I'm really beginning to like this. The iPad2 just blows away the Acer for so many reasons. For instance, I left the Acer out on a table overnight with about 80% battery life and in the morning I had about 15% left. And I did power it down before I went to bed. Last night I left the iPad2 with 97% battery life and when I powered it up this morning, it still had 97%.

I did buy a protective case for the iPad. The thing is just too delicate looking for me not to have it in a case. It certainly doesn't have the rugged look of the Xoom.

If you'll recall, I bought the other three tablets before a weekend and took them all back just after the weekend. Not gonna happen this time. I like this. It's just an elegant piece of equipment and it works very well. I haven't really found anything I dislike about it. 

Rich


----------



## BudShark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> So beyond eBooks (which almost 1/2 of iPad users don't even use them for)...what else is driving the tablet market?


Form factor, size, speed, efficiency, and touch. Some things are just better touch applications like the web.

You also have tablet centric apps like zite and flipboard.

And quick access to email, news, games, etc

And 1/2 of iPad users + kindle + nook + others is a LOT of ebook users


----------



## BudShark

rich584 said:


> I'm really beginning to like this. The iPad2 just blows away the Acer for so many reasons. For instance, I left the Acer out on a table overnight with about 80% battery life and in the morning I had about 15% left. And I did power it down before I went to bed. Last night I left the iPad2 with 97% battery life and when I powered it up this morning, it still had 97%.
> 
> I did buy a protective case for the iPad. The thing is just too delicate looking for me not to have it in a case. It certainly doesn't have the rugged look of the Xoom.
> 
> If you'll recall, I bought the other three tablets before a weekend and took them all back just after the weekend. Not gonna happen this time. I like this. It's just an elegant piece of equipment and it works very well. I haven't really found anything I dislike about it.
> 
> Rich


Interesting journey. And I think the biggest part of why the iPad is successful. May not be by specs the best, it may not be "open", but it IS the only true tablet. The only complete solution and the only thing on the market that feels like a different type of device and not an experiment.

Try Zite and Flipboard if you haven't. Two of the best tablet apps out there.


----------



## spartanstew

Even though I received a Nook for Christmas, I sold it last week.

I much prefer reading hard covers, especially certain writers that I collect all of their books in hard cover.

That may change when/if I get a tablet as it will be more versatile (although there's a couple of writers that I'll still always get the hard cover of their new books)


----------



## Groundhog45

rich584 said:


> I'm really beginning to like this. The iPad2 just blows away the Acer for so many reasons. ....
> 
> If you'll recall, I bought the other three tablets before a weekend and took them all back just after the weekend. Not gonna happen this time. I like this. It's just an elegant piece of equipment and it works very well. I haven't really found anything I dislike about it.
> 
> Rich


I've enjoyed following this discussion the last few weeks. I guess the question now is have you found more uses for this iPad than the other one or the android tablets?


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> That may change when/if I get a tablet as it will be more versatile (although there's a couple of writers that I'll still always get the hard cover of their new books)


It'll surprise me if, in a few years, there will be publishers still in business willing to bear the expense of printing and distributing hard-cover books _in general_. If they are printed, my guess is they'll probably be limited editions and relatively very expensive.


----------



## DarkSkies

Agreed. There's also a nice green aspect of ebooks that should not be discounted: as the tide shifts even further towards ebooks, the publishers will be reducing their carbon footprints for the amount of paper consumed, plus ink, plus related shipping costs. Good for the environment, good for us all.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Yup. And perhaps just a temporary victory for publishers, IMHO.
> 
> I say that because I think at some point in the very near future, we'll see major authors threatening to self-publish with the likes of Amazon and B&N, so they can set their own prices and keep up to 70% of the sale price (in the US, among other places).
> 
> Right now, a best-selling author makes 10%-15% of the sale price, or a fixed negotiated royalty amount. So _maybe _up to $1.50 per copy on a $10-$12 e-book. If that author self-publishes that same book with Amazon and it retails for $5 instead of $10, s/he stands to make $3.50 on that sale. Not to mention the fact the reader saves $5 as well.
> 
> So unless they re-invent themselves by selling e-books directly to consumers and compensating authors at a similar rate to Amazon and/or B&N, I think big publishing houses may be destined to go the way of newspapers and magazines. Just my .02.


I don't know about current best selling authors, I imagine the big publishing houses have them locked up pretty tight. But I agree some flavor of self publishing is the future.

Baen is one publisher with an eye on the future. Most of their eBooks can be purchased right from their website, usually for $6.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I don't know about current best selling authors, I imagine the big publishing houses have them locked up pretty tight. But I agree some flavor of self publishing is the future.


Ya, but if and when those contracts expire... boy are those authors gonna have leverage! Imagine what J.K. Rowling could make self-publishing a _Harry Potter_ e-sequel through Amazon for $5.95 and keeping 70% of the sale? :eek2:


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Not at all true.
> 
> The battle is very much alive, and the publishers are aggressively fighting Amazon's pricing model. Amazon is not the only provider of eBooks either. There is talk among publishers that they may begin to take ownership of eBook sales themselves. I think several posters are seeing a very narrow view, and not the bigger picture.


I was only responding to your mention of Amazon. Again, the battle was last year. The publishers won. They set their own eBook prices in the Kindle store. You haven't provided anything showing they are now unhappy with the arrangement.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> I was only responding to your mention of Amazon. Again, the battle was last year. The publishers won. They set their own eBook prices in the Kindle store. *You haven't provided anything showing they are now unhappy with the arrangement*.


It's not my job. I guess you can learn alot meeting authors in person as often as I'm asked to do it - that information was conveyed over the past year in person at over 15 book-signings, and is consistent with the information with the linked article. Amazon is still viewed by many as the 800-pound gorilla trying to make banana bread from authors' works.

It's the concept of eBooks in general (pricing and piracy in particular) that gains opposition from many authors. You might have also noticed another of the linked pieces reference over 300 authors in another eBook battle. The battles continue.


BudShark said:


> And 1/2 of iPad users + kindle + nook + others is *a LOT of ebook users*


Quite true...and tens of millions who don't - the point of that linked article.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DarkSkies said:


> Agreed. There's also a nice green aspect of ebooks that should not be discounted: as the tide shifts even further toward ebooks, the publishers will be reducing their carbon footprints for the amount of paper consumed, plus ink, plus related shipping costs. Good for the environment, good for us all.


Agree that is a valid point.

If somehow the distributors can avoid tainted eBooks with low-ball pricing, and there is also a way to assure copyright/piracy control...the obstacles and opposition will likely drop exponentially.

So other than web-browsing and eBook reading...what are some of the other main uses of tablets by those who aready have them?


----------



## klang

Denying the obvious changes occurring in the publishing industry is just silly. :lol:

Repeated from my prior post:


> E-book sales in February topped all other formats, including paperbacks and hardcovers, according to an industry report released this week.


It is happening.


----------



## Rich

BudShark said:


> Interesting journey. And I think the biggest part of why the iPad is successful. May not be by specs the best, it may not be "open", but it IS the only true tablet. The only complete solution and the only thing on the market that feels like a different type of device and not an experiment.
> 
> Try *Zite and Flipboard* if you haven't. Two of the best tablet apps out there.


Thanx, I'll try them.

Rich


----------



## BudShark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's not my job. I guess you can learn alot meeting authors in person as often as I'm asked to do it - that information was conveyed over the past year in person at over 15 book-signings, and is consistent with the information with the linked article. Amazon is still viewed by many as the 800-pound gorilla trying to make banana bread from authors' works.
> 
> It's the concept of eBooks in general (pricing and piracy in particular) that gains opposition from many authors. You might have also noticed another of the linked pieces reference over 300 authors in another eBook battle. The battles continue.
> 
> Quite true...and tens of millions who don't - the point of that linked article.


Millions in a market that is 3 years old is something to pay attention to. Just sayin... 

I'm sure people in the industry have friends and allegiances they don't want to see change. Those are usually referred to as good ol boys clubs, and are often the ones that fall the hardest when the market changes.

Every other market has gone digital. Me thinks books are well on their way.


----------



## Rich

Groundhog45 said:


> I've enjoyed following this discussion the last few weeks. I guess the question now is have you found more uses for this iPad than the other one or the android tablets?


Not enough time with it yet to answer you properly, but it just seems more like what I was looking for. Or expecting.

But that doesn't mean I'm thru looking at tablets. I still want to try the Sammy Galaxy when it comes out.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> It'll surprise me if, in a few years, there will be publishers still in business willing to bear the expense of printing and distributing hard-cover books _in general_. If they are printed, my guess is they'll probably be limited editions and relatively very expensive.


That would be a shame. Seriously, I hope that doesn't happen.

Rich


----------



## BudShark

rich584 said:


> Not enough time with it yet to answer you properly, but it just seems more like what I was looking for. Or expecting.
> 
> But that doesn't mean I'm thru looking at tablets. I still want to try the Sammy Galaxy when it comes out.
> 
> Rich


I think the interesting point to consider is what attracts you to the iPad? Is it the hardware? Is it the software? The integration?

If its the software or integration that won't change. And in fact, don't forget you are running a 1 year old operating system. iOS5 will certainly bring some new things to bear, and address others.

If its hardware... well... then the Galaxy II will be interesting to see how they execute. It certainly looks promising.


----------



## Rich

BudShark said:


> I think the interesting point to consider is what attracts you to the iPad? Is it the hardware? Is it the software? The integration?
> 
> If its the software or integration that won't change. And in fact, don't forget you are running a 1 year old operating system. iOS5 will certainly bring some new things to bear, and address others.
> 
> If its hardware... well... then the Galaxy II will be interesting to see how they execute. It certainly looks promising.


I don't really know why I like this over the Xoom, except for the fact that when I got the Xoom it had very few apps available. With the Acer, it was one problem after another. Don't know if I just got a bad unit or if they are all like that.

The iPad1 I had certainly didn't seem to be as easy to use and not nearly as "nice".

But, you have to remember, I used Macs for a long time in the '80s and '90s and this feels like they did. I quit before they took my last Mac away from me. Using PCs was a PITA for quite a while and all I was using them for was as a portal to the Net. The Macs I used as a work tool. I've never really used a PC in a "work environment" since I stopped working. Before we got the Macs I was using a Compaq desktop and that was OK, but the Macs just blew it away. I even used a mainframe program as a word processor before I got a desktop. I think the program was called something like "edlin". All I had in my office was a monitor and everything was on the mainframe. Royal PITA that was.

Personally, the tablet is a toy. I don't know what I'll ever use it for right now. I just wanted one.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Personally, the tablet is a toy. I don't know what I'll ever use it for right now. I just wanted one.
> 
> Rich


I've always admired the honesty and straight-forward content of your posts.

No sugar coating there...and I suspect you are not alone.


----------



## phrelin

rich584 said:


> Personally, the tablet is a toy. I don't know what I'll ever use it for right now. I just wanted one.
> 
> Rich


I too liked this honest statement. I always tell people if you don't know what you're going to do with an iPad or any other tablet, don't buy one. But hey, if your aware in your mind that for you they aren't an answer to a problem, or a solution to a better way, and you still want one to play with, that's even better.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I've always admired the honesty and straight-forward content of your posts.
> 
> No sugar coating there...and I suspect you are not alone.


Thanx. From the first time I heard the saying, "He who dies with the most toys wins.", I have been able to justify my purchasing toys and will continue to do so. And, just think, this year I got a birthday present!....:lol:

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> :up: I've heard from more than one iPad/Kindle/Nook owner that they read more now than ever. Because it's now so convenient to locate, sample and download a book, there's less "down time" in between reads, where life intervenes and you don't have a chance to get to the bookstore or the library. Plus now if you read a review of a book that piques your interest, you're often literally minutes away from owning it.


I'm one of those people, I always have a book I'm currently reading on my Kindle and usually at least one more waiting for me to start when I finish the current one - and every one of them has been purchased. Another reason eBooks / Kindle books should be viewed as a positive thing for authors and publishers is that I can't just give that book away or even loan it to someone else (some limited loaning is permitted in certain formats) like I could with a paperback or hardcover. My wife has loaned her entire collection of Harry Potter hardcovers to at least six other people and we've given away dozens of paperbacks and other hardcovers over time. When I buy a Kindle book that "copy" of the book doesn't get recycled in the same way, end up at 1/2 priced books, etc. so the people that we would have loaned it to now have to go buy it too.

IMO, if the publishers and authors are resisting change they'll get left behind to wither and die. If they were smart they would find ways to embrace the technology and make it work for them - those are the companies and individuals that thrive over time, not the ones who believe they can stop the change from happening.


----------



## spartanstew

bobukcat said:


> Another reason eBooks / Kindle books should be viewed as a positive thing for authors and publishers is that I can't just give that book away or even loan it to someone else (some limited loaning is permitted in certain formats) like I could with a paperback or hardcover. My wife has loaned her entire collection of Harry Potter hardcovers to at least six other people and we've given away dozens of paperbacks and other hardcovers over time. When I buy a Kindle book that "copy" of the book doesn't get recycled in the same way, end up at 1/2 priced books, etc. so the people that we would have loaned it to now have to go buy it too.


You're forgetting the flip side of that: Any book you can buy legally from Amazon (or anywhere else), you can also get Free on the internet if you know where to look (illegally, of course). That's what the authors and publishers don't like. I work with someone that has over 1000 books on his Nook (via SD cards). His total cost for all those books: $0

So, you can just give a book away or loan it - even to perfect strangers if you wanted, and you still have your copy as well.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I'm one of those people, I always have a book I'm currently reading on my Kindle and usually at least one more waiting for me to start when I finish the current one - and every one of them has been purchased. Another reason eBooks / Kindle books should be viewed as a positive thing for authors and publishers is that I can't just give that book away or even loan it to someone else (some limited loaning is permitted in certain formats) like I could with a paperback or hardcover. My wife has loaned her entire collection of Harry Potter hardcovers to at least six other people and we've given away dozens of paperbacks and other hardcovers over time. When I buy a Kindle book that "copy" of the book doesn't get recycled in the same way, end up at 1/2 priced books, etc. so the people that we would have loaned it to now have to go buy it too.


Good post, as usual. I was wondering if you could give digital copies of purchased books to friend and relatives and from your post, I gather you can't. That's a good thing.



> IMO, if the publishers and authors are resisting change they'll get left behind to wither and die. If they were smart they would find ways to embrace the technology and make it work for them - those are the companies and individuals that thrive over time, not the ones who believe they can stop the change from happening.


Even tho I rarely buy books, I can see your point on this subject. I suppose the publishers and authors who are smart will adapt and flourish and the ones who can't will be weeded out. Sounds rather Darwinian and that's a good thing. We should be in for an interesting ride as this happens. I just hope it doesn't adversely affect the libraries. My library has been adapting to the Internet for several years and the place is usually packed.

Rich


----------



## spartanstew

rich584 said:


> Good post, as usual. I was wondering if you could give digital copies of purchased books to friend and relatives and from your post, I gather you can't. That's a good thing.


The Nook has a share feature:

*Exclusive LendMe™ Technology
NOOK's exclusive LendMe™ technology lets you share favorite books with friends. LendMe™ books can be lent for up to 14 days. Just choose the book you want to share and send it to your friend's NOOK, computer, or handheld device enabled with NOOK software.*


----------



## bobukcat

spartanstew said:


> You're forgetting the flip side of that: Any book you can buy legally from Amazon (or anywhere else), you can also get Free on the internet if you know where to look (illegally, of course). That's what the authors and publishers don't like. I work with someone that has over 1000 books on his Nook (via SD cards). His total cost for all those books: $0
> 
> So, you can just give a book away or loan it - even to perfect strangers if you wanted, and you still have your copy as well.


That's certainly a good point, and I didn't mean to suggest that illegal distribution isn't a problem but - to your point - it's already happening anyway! For years I saw notes in books that if you bought it without a cover it was an illegal copy that the author didn't get paid for so obviously they have a piracy problem even with printed books.

I know we are venturing OT a bit so I'll leave it at that but I would suggest that improving your marketing or distribution model (via simple apps like Kindle for just about any device, etc.) and lowering your price would make it even less palatable for people to go searching for the content for free but illegally on bit torrents, etc.


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> You're forgetting the flip side of that: Any book you can buy legally from Amazon (or anywhere else), you can also get Free on the internet if you know where to look (illegally, of course). That's what the authors and publishers don't like. I work with someone that has over 1000 books on his Nook (via SD cards). His total cost for all those books: $0
> 
> So, you can just give a book away or loan it - even to perfect strangers if you wanted, and you still have your copy as well.


That's interesting. Does the illegality extend to the person who downloads the illegal books?

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> That's certainly a good point, and I didn't mean to suggest that illegal distribution isn't a problem but - to your point - it's already happening anyway! For years I saw notes in books that if you bought it without a cover it was an illegal copy that the author didn't get paid for so obviously they have a piracy problem even with printed books.
> 
> *I know we are venturing OT a bit* so I'll leave it at that but I would suggest that improving your marketing or distribution model (via simple apps like Kindle for just about any device, etc.) and lowering your price would make it even less palatable for people to go searching for the content for free but illegally on bit torrents, etc.


I'd consider a Nook or a Kindle a tablet, so I don't consider this OT at all. Just the last few posts have gotten my interest turned way up on those particular tablets. First time since those tablets appeared that I've had any interest in them. (No moderation intended, just expressing an opinion.)

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

bobukcat said:


> IMO, if the publishers and authors are resisting change they'll get left behind to wither and die. If they were smart they would find ways to embrace the technology and make it work for them - those are the companies and individuals that thrive over time, not the ones who believe they can stop the change from happening.


This is a very true statement. The music industry finally woke up to this as well. The best way to fight piracy is to make it cheap, quick, convenient and safe to download music to any device. Heck, back in the 70's I was spending 89 cents to purchase a 45 RPM single so prices to download one song are very reasonable in this day and age.


----------



## bobukcat

spartanstew said:


> The Nook has a share feature:
> 
> *Exclusive LendMe™ Technology
> NOOK's exclusive LendMe™ technology lets you share favorite books with friends. LendMe™ books can be lent for up to 14 days. Just choose the book you want to share and send it to your friend's NOOK, computer, or handheld device enabled with NOOK software.*


Kindle has this too but apparently it's up to the Author if they want to permit that or not and I haven't seen too many in the Kindle store that does allow the lending feature. I only have Kindles so I don't know if the same holds true at B&N.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> This is a very true statement. The music industry finally woke up to this as well. *The best way to fight piracy is to make it cheap, quick, convenient and safe to download music to any device. *Heck, back in the 70's I was spending 89 cents to purchase a 45 RPM single so prices to download one song are very reasonable in this day and age.


The best way to prohibit it without getting paid properly, and include a security key to enforce it.

Following the other path will lead to many authors getting out of the business - everybody loses in that model.


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> I'd consider a Nook or a Kindle a tablet, so I don't consider this OT at all. Just the last few posts have gotten my interest turned way up on those particular tablets. First time since those tablets appeared that I've had any interest in them. (No moderation intended, just expressing an opinion.)
> 
> Rich


The Kindle is pretty much a single purpose device, reading. It does have the ability to bring up web pages but it's not pretty. It does the reading task extremely well though.


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> This is a very true statement. The music industry finally woke up to this as well. The best way to fight piracy is to make it cheap, quick, convenient and safe to download music to any device. Heck, back in the 70's I was spending 89 cents to purchase a 45 RPM single so prices to download one song are very reasonable in this day and age.


I really hated buying LPs when I knew there would only be three or four cuts that I'd like. iTunes sure cured that problem.

Rich


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> The Kindle is pretty much a single purpose device, reading. It does have the ability to bring up web pages but it's not pretty. It does the reading task extremely well though.


Yup, that's why I never considered one. The library is free, why bother? But if I can get free books on the Net without putting myself in jeopardy...

Rich


----------



## FHSPSU67

Chris Blount said:


> Heck, back in the 70's I was spending 89 cents to purchase a 45 RPM single so prices to download one song are very reasonable in this day and age.


You didn't get a flip side on your 45's?:lol:
On topic, my ASUS 32GB transformer and dock/keyboard are scheduled for delivery the week of May 23.


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> Yup, that's why I never considered one. The library is free, why bother? But if I can get free books on the Net without putting myself in jeopardy...
> 
> Rich


Lots of free books on the net. Amazon even has them. They are mostly really old stuff.

Edit: Here is a site with 33000 titles available for free.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> You didn't get a flip side on your 45's?:lol:
> On topic, my *ASUS 32GB transformer *and dock/keyboard are scheduled for delivery the week of May 23.


Very cool!

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with that unit.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> This is a very true statement. The music industry finally woke up to this as well. *The best way to fight piracy is to make it cheap, quick, convenient and safe to download music to any device* [...]


Bingo. It's history repeating itself. Book publishers are in the same place today as music publishers were a few years ago, before they finally came to the "cheap, quick, convenient" realization. It's even allowed them to now sell music tracks DRM-free.

The book industry may have won a battle with Amazon on setting prices, but as long as they don't follow the music industry's lead on pricing, they will continue to lose the piracy war.

And even if they do, I'm still convinced book publishers may go the way of the dinosaurs, because it's so easy for a writer to self-publish the latest file on his word processor. I see the future of publishing as either *author > amazon/B&N > e-consumer* or *author > publisher > e-consumer*.

Right now, it's *author > publisher > amazon/B&N > e-consumer*, and that's one middle-man too many, IMHO.


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> Lots of free books on the net. Amazon even has them. They are mostly really old stuff.
> 
> Edit: Here is a site with 33000 titles available for free.


Thanx for the link! First thing I searched for was Edgar Rice Burroughs and it turned up every book he wrote (I think)! If there are some folks who never read his books, they are NOT children's books. Even his _Tarzan_ books are adult books. He was one of the masters of pulp fiction.

I'm gonna download a couple of those classics today! If you haven't read _Princess of Mars_, you are in for a treat! And it's the first book of a series! If Barsoom is an unknown word to you, it won't be if you take my advice and read this series.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Yup, that's why I never considered one. The library is free, why bother? But if I can get free books on the Net without putting myself in jeopardy...


If you haven't already, check out your local library's web site to see if they lend e-books. If it's like my library, you'll have to download the Overdrive Media app for your iPad.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> If you haven't already, check out your local library's web site to see if they lend e-books. If it's like my library, you'll have to download the Overdrive Media app for your iPad.


Been meaning to do that, I know they have started to lend e-books. I might just get a Kindle for Father's day. A present for Father's day, that will be a first....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Been meaning to do that, I know they have started to lend e-books. I might just get a Kindle for Father's day. A present for Father's day, that will be a first....:lol:


Amazon has been a little greedy by not opening up the Kindle to e-libraries. It's finally in the works, tho. Supposed to happen later this year. In the meantime, you can view your library's e-titles on the Nook or the iPad (or your laptop).


----------



## AttiTech

rich584 said:


> Thanx for the link! First thing I searched for was Edgar Rice Burroughs and it turned up every book he wrote (I think)! If there are some folks who never read his books, they are NOT children's books. Even his _Tarzan_ books are adult books. He was one of the masters of pulp fiction.
> 
> I'm gonna download a couple of those classics today! If you haven't read _Princess of Mars_, you are in for a treat! And it's the first book of a series! If Barsoom is an unknown word to you, it won't be if you take my advice and read this series.
> 
> Rich


Might looks those up! Been looking for a good read when my wife is hogging the 360


----------



## FHSPSU67

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Very cool!
> 
> Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with that unit.


I will definitely report back after get it. Right now it seems almost too good to believe, but I realize not many things are as good as I expect them to be - the experiences of an early adopter


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> I will definitely report back after get it. Right now it seems almost too good to believe, but I realize not many things are as good as I expect them to be - the experiences of an early adopter


That's part of what should be interesting...your first 60 days or so.

During that time...Android v3 is supposed to get an update...a number of new apps are scheduled for release...and you'll have some hands-on experience.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Amazon has been a little greedy by not opening up the Kindle to e-libraries. It's finally in the works, tho. Supposed to happen later this year. In the meantime, you can view your library's e-titles on the Nook or the iPad (or your laptop).


I just got into my library, every library in my county is in it. Gotta explore some more. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> Thanx for the link! First thing I searched for was Edgar Rice Burroughs and it turned up every book he wrote (I think)! If there are some folks who never read his books, they are NOT children's books. Even his _Tarzan_ books are adult books. He was one of the masters of pulp fiction.
> 
> I'm gonna download a couple of those classics today! If you haven't read _Princess of Mars_, you are in for a treat! And it's the first book of a series! If Barsoom is an unknown word to you, it won't be if you take my advice and read this series.
> 
> Rich


You are welcome. I will add those to my list to check out.


----------



## Groundhog45

I second the comments about Burrough's _Martian Series_ of books. I bought all of them in paperback decades ago and still have them. A very good read. The made-for-TV movie of _A Princess of Mars_ on Siffy (SyFy) a few months ago was terrible, however.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*A flood of new Android Honeycomb Tablet news is likely to pour out from Googl'e IO conference that starts today....but here are some interesting tidbits surfacing already:*

http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2011/05/10/honeycomb-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-handled-on-video/



> The guys say that the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 trumps the Apple iPad 2 when it comes to thinness coming in at just 8.6mm with a weight of 595 grams and sports a 1 GHz dual-core processor, WiFi, Bluetooth and HSPA+ network speeds.


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/catch-launches-lifestreaming-for-android-30-tablets-at-google-io-121558298.html



> Catch.com, creator of Catch Notes, the easiest way to capture all the important ideas, sights and sounds of your life into a single information stream, announced today a new version of Catch Notes optimized for Android™ 3.0 Honeycomb tablets. Catch Notes for tablets is available to download for free on Android Market™. "We are big fans of Android, and the new Honeycomb tablet features support our on-going efforts to make mobile information capture simple, fast, reliable and intuitive."


http://www.pdfdevices.com/is-the-asus-eee-pad-transformer-the-leading-honeycomb-tab-of-today/



> ASUS launched the Eee Pad Transformer in Taiwan and UK in early April. Stores were sold out almost immediately. The same happened in US on April 26. The demand for the tabs is way ahead of production. ASUS admits it's underestimation of the demand and is now working on shipping 100,000 units this month and 200,000 units in June.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

More news from Google I/O regarding Honeycomb:

1) The Verizon Xoom will first have the new Android 3.1 version available, followed by other tablets.

2) The Gmail widget will now be user scalable, to be able to see a large list of e-mail (alot of applause on that one).

3) The Android market is being expanded and enhanced to support not only eBooks, but video content. Once a rental purchase is made...it is instantly available to all account-enabled devices. Movies have a 30-day rental period, with a 24-hour view window once downloaded on a device. *This includes many current HD content movies.* This will be available in a few weeks via Honeycomb 3.1 on tablets.

4) Android Honeycomb will share the same app development standards as Google TV - likely resulting in many more apps being developed and shared. The toolkit will be open source.

[The next version of Android will be called Ice Cream Sandwich...a copy of the logo is in the photo attached below.]

5) The next version will include video chat enhancements that are impressive, including automatic camera angle shifting to multiple conversation participants.

6) Music Beta was another interesting new website-driven application - and locates/load music via a cloud - no more wires on syncing...instant access and playback. This will be retro available to Android v2.2 devices as well.


----------



## DarkSkies

The biggest news about the Google movie rentals is the rentals can be "pinned" for offline viewing. Great when you're planning for a flight or are stuck in a hotel with crappy broadband. I can't imagine how compressed these offline movies will be or how much storage they will need, but I see folks looking for larger SD cards!

(And Xoom/Verizon REALLY needs to enable that SD card slot ... soon!)


----------



## hdtvfan0001

More from Google I/O regarding tablets...

1) There is a growing list of partner providers who will be included in the ability to get the immediate and automatic access to Android version future updates, through a minimum of the first 18 months of the device's activation (see photo below). This will mean that devices should always be current as quickly as possible, and user notified of updates promptly.

2) A new open source development kit has been introduced for Honeycomb/Ice Cream Sandwich which is device-independent. This means that the same applications available for phones can be used on tablets, and vice versa. In addition, other hardware accessories can be Android enabled to connect/work with any Android device.

3) There is no NDA required for developers using the SDK, nor fees. This is to encourage the launch of as many new applications as possible.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

WOW - they just said they were giving all of the 5000+ attendees to the Google I/O Conference a Samsung Galaxy 10.1" tablet within the next day or two. Anyone else will have to wait until some time in June when they are publically released.

The units are thinner and lighter than iPad 2, and run with the latest version of Android Honeycomb - and feature a 720p HD resolution screen.


----------



## DarkSkies

hdtvfan0001 said:


> WOW - they just said they were giving all of the 5000+ attendees to the Google I/O Conference a Samsung Galaxy 10.1" tablet within the next day or two.


I suspect this is one reason why booking for Google's I/O conference is closed within an hour or two after it opens - all seats are filled almost instantly! (There were even eBay auctions for tickets to the I/O conference.)


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DarkSkies said:


> I suspect this is one reason why booking for Google's I/O conference is closed within an hour or two after it opens - all seats are filled almost instantly! (There were even eBay auctions for tickets to the I/O conference.)


True.....

But pretty impressive....and those tablets looked pretty impressive too.


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> More news from Google I/O regarding Honeycomb:
> 
> 1) The Verizon Xoom will first have the new Android 3.1 version available, followed by other tablets.
> 
> 2) The Gmail widget will now be user scalable, to be able to see a large list of e-mail (alot of applause on that one).
> 
> 3) The Android market is being expanded and enhanced to support not only eBooks, but video content. Once a rental purchase is made...it is instantly available to all account-enabled devices. Movies have a 30-day rental period, with a 24-hour view window once downloaded on a device. *This includes many current HD content movies.* This will be available in a few weeks via Honeycomb 3.1 on tablets.
> 
> 4) Android Honeycomb will share the same app development standards as Google TV - likely resulting in many more apps being developed and shared. The toolkit will be open source.
> 
> [The next version of Android will be called Ice Cream Sandwich...a copy of the logo is in the photo attached below.]
> 
> 5) The next version will include video chat enhancements that are impressive, including automatic camera angle shifting to multiple conversation participants.
> 
> 6) Music Beta was another interesting new website-driven application - and locates/load music via a cloud - no more wires on syncing...instant access and playback. This will be retro available to Android v2.2 devices as well.


Good summation post but you left out that 3.1 will bring full USB Host Support to tablets, they even tried to demo it with an Xbox controller connected but it didn't look like it worked real well with Cordy.

An amazing amount of information was in that one-hour keynote. Some of the stuff may never really see the light of day but the [email protected] stuff was pretty cool too!

I keep checking to see if my Xoom has the 3.1 download ready yet but so far no go. I guess a watched tablet never updates.....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> Good summation post but you left out that 3.1 will bring full USB Host Support to tablets, they even tried to demo it with an Xbox controller connected but it didn't look like it worked real well with Cordy.
> 
> An amazing amount of information was in that one-hour keynote. Some of the stuff may never really see the light of day but the [email protected] stuff was pretty cool too!
> 
> I keep checking to see if my Xoom has the 3.1 download ready yet but so far no go. I guess a watched tablet never updates.....


Lots to cover and so little time to report... :lol:

The movie and music services were also very impressive.

From what I saw, I was left with 2 impressions:

1) Android Honeycomb and IceCream Sandwich versions are designed to expand the use of Android tablet/phone devices to so much more than what can be done today on mobile platforms today - this should help drive justification for sales/adoption.

2) the iPad folks have some real competition headed their way with the Android Honeycomb and subsequent version platform, open source OS, and added connectivity/storage for video/music/etc. I'm guessing some folks in the Apple development team were busy taking notes for the iPad3 wish list.


----------



## DarkSkies

The Android 3.1 page is live ... 

http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-3.1-highlights.html

I'm looking forward to resizing my Browser Links widget to span 7 rows. 

And resizing my Email widgets, too.


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Lots to cover and so little time to report... :lol:


No doubt about that one - my head was just about spinning by the end of it there was so much new stuff announced! :dance07:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> No doubt about that one - my head was just about spinning by the end of it there was so much new stuff announced! :dance07:


51 minutes of a million new things and ways to use mobile devices... WHEW. 

But it was interesting and educational for sure. I found more new ways to leverage a mobile device for functionality in that short time span than almost all the research and user testimony to date. 

The presentation was impressive indeed.


----------



## Rich

Groundhog45 said:


> I second the comments about Burrough's _Martian Series_ of books. I bought all of them in paperback decades ago and still have them. A very good read. The made-for-TV movie of _A Princess of Mars_ on Siffy (SyFy) a few months ago was terrible, however.


That was always a problem with the _John Carter_ series. Perhaps with computer animation they could make a realistic _Tars Tarkas_ (don't know what we're talking about? Read the books, you'll enjoy them), but not on a SyFy budget. When I was a kid I collected comics and the _Tarzan_ comic books always had a _John Carter_ episode after the _Tarzan_ episode. Comic books could do justice to that series.

I've given _A Princess of Mars_ to several kids and their fathers have ended up reading them and raved about them.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> 51 minutes of a million new things and ways to use mobile devices... WHEW.
> 
> But it was interesting and educational for sure. I found more new ways to leverage a mobile device for functionality in that short time span than almost all the research and user testimony to date.
> 
> The presentation was impressive indeed.


Hmm. As I noted in an earlier post, Target gave me 90 days to return the iPad2. I do like it tho. How much will the Galaxy cost? Father's day is coming...

When you consider how many HRs, plasma TVs, and computers I've managed to collect, two tablets is hardly much of a stretch...

I almost bought a Mac AirBook today. Open box and cheap.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Hmm. As I noted in an earlier post, Target gave me 90 days to return the iPad2. I do like it tho. How much will the Galaxy cost? Father's day is coming...
> 
> When you consider how many HRs, plasma TVs, and computers I've managed to collect, two tablets is hardly much of a stretch...
> 
> I almost bought a Mac AirBook today. Open box and cheap.
> 
> Rich


The price was not announced...but should be in the same $599 or less range as other tablets. A bit surprised to see it was thinner and lighter than iPad 2.

I suspect that since 5,000 application developers are getting free ones at Google I/o this week...we might just see some neat apps for that device in the near future.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here's a site indicating the price of the Galaxy tab 10.1 is going to be $399.

http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/10/wi-fi-only-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-will-be-available-in-the-us-on-june-8/


----------



## AttiTech

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Here's a site indicating the price of the Galaxy tab 10.1 is going to be $399.
> 
> http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/10/wi-fi-only-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-will-be-available-in-the-us-on-june-8/


O_O $399?!!?!?!?!?!??!?
Hell yeah!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> O_O $399?!!?!?!?!?!??!?
> Hell yeah!


If that comes to pass....it just moved to #1 on my list...the construction is supposed to be outstanding, and it includes all the greatest connectivity and features of the Honeycomb series, along with automatic upgrade support for ice cream sandwich. Did I mention its thinner and lighter than iPad2? 

I saw 4 of them yesterday (obviously Google I/O attendees) on eBay for $1000-1200. I know those are "special edition" units with white back cases...but geez....greed setting in - that's just nuts.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Did I mention its thinner and lighter than iPad2?


No, you haven't disparaged the iPad yet today. Please tell us again how much better XXX is than iPad. We all want to hear it again. Please. The suspense is killing us.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Apparently paranoia is (yet again) setting in for a few in the iOS crowd.

Stating the *specifications fact *that this upcoming Samsung Android tablet is thinner and lighter is hardly "disparaging". 

It's a fact, and warrants noting, as Apple touts their iPad 2 as "thinner and lighter" than other tablets. This particular new device is also the first Android tablet to make that claim.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> No, you haven't disparaged the iPad yet today. Please tell us again how much better XXX is than iPad. We all want to hear it again. Please. The suspense is killing us.


:lol:...Aw, you're killin' me...:lol:


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> O_O $399?!!?!?!?!?!??!?
> Hell yeah!


As I mentioned back here, just like Apple, Samsung _gets_ how important weight is to the tablet experience. If they can sell a 16GB wifi version at that MSRP, the other competitors in the Honeycomb tablet space will either have to go back to the drawing board, or simply pack it in. Just my .02.


----------



## klang

"tcusta00" said:


> No, you haven't disparaged the iPad yet today. Please tell us again how much better XXX is than iPad. We all want to hear it again. Please. The suspense is killing us.


Spit that out. That is stinky old bait. ;-)

Sent from my iPad2 using DBSTalk


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> As I mentioned back here, just like Apple, Samsung _gets_ how important weight is to the tablet experience. *If they can sell a 16GB wifi version at that MSRP, the other competitors in the Honeycomb tablet space will either have to go back to the drawing board, or simply pack it in*. Just my .02.


The Android-based ASUS tablet can't be stocked on shelves fast enough...they are ramping up for 200,000 units in June alone. The various Android tablets are all lighter and smaller than the majority of laptops. Several will be at that price point.

I agree with you that weight/thin profile are a desirable trait - and iPad2 got it right up front. The ASUS, Amazon, Acer, and other Android tablets are also very close to iPad2 in depth and weight. These comparisons are no where profound enough to have to have the others "go back to the drawing board". Even the iPad3 is rumored to reinvent some things, including profile tweaks, so this stuff is evolutionary, not revolutionary.

I could make a case that Apple may need to go back to the drawing board, in terms of its proprietary mantra with connectivity and memory expansion, as well as lack of HD screen support. I doubt that will happen either.

In the end..it mostly comes down to what can someone do with them. That's a bigger fish to fry, and several of the more recent offerings seem to have connectivity and apps that might expand upon the functionality of the tablets.


----------



## Rich

Talked to my wife last night about the oncoming deluge of Android tablets. Told her I planned to buy a Galaxy when it comes out. Her reply: "Great, give me the iPad2, I'll take it to work, get the email account encrypted and you can have the Galaxy."

Now I'm scared. She can be very scary at times when it comes to my toys. Shocked me when she made it very clear that she wants that iPad.

Yesterday, she told me to get her a 24 "so she can have a better DVR than the **********ing 21-700 that's so ******* slow and unreliable." She's rather upset with the 21-700. Been having troubles with it lately. Always been slow.

Gotta wonder how much Xmas is gonna cost this year......:lol:

$399, huh? Oh yeah, for that price it'll be sold out very quickly. 

Seriously now. The only way to compete with Apple is to sell similar products cheaper than they do. Apple's already selling their iPads at a lower profit margin than their iPods and iPhones. 

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Apparently paranoia is (yet again) setting in for a few in the iOS crowd.
> 
> Stating the specifications fact that this upcoming Samsung Android tablet is thinner and lighter is hardly "disparaging".
> 
> It's a fact, and warrants noting, as Apple touts their iPad 2 as "thinner and lighter" than other tablets. This particular new device is also the first Android tablet to make that claim.


Actually Apple has only ever said that their iPad 2 is thinner and lighter than the original iPad. If you consider that an "other" then sure, they've said it. 

No one is paranoid. I'd LOVE for Android to make a thinner lighter faster sexier tablet than iPad. I'm not steve jobs. I have no vested interest in Android failing and Apple succeeding in the tablet space. Others here have this inferiority complex that's insistent upon pointing out the shortcomings of Apple every time a new tablet comes out. I can't believe we're going over this again. I really thought a lesson was learned. Guess not. :nono2:

Keep telling us how new tablets are better than iPads please. We all want to hear it. Really. It's fascinating.


----------



## tcusta00

"klang" said:


> Spit that out. That is stinky old bait. ;-)
> 
> Sent from my iPad2 using DBSTalk


!rolling


----------



## tcusta00

"rich584" said:


> Yesterday, she told me to get her a 24 "so she can have a better DVR than the **********ing 21-700 that's so ******* slow and unreliable." She's rather upset with the 21-700. Been having troubles with it lately. Always been slow.


Oh man, say it ain't so, SAY IT AIN'T SO!! :lol:


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Actually Apple has only ever said that their iPad 2 is thinner and lighter than the original iPad. If you consider that an "other" then sure, they've said it.
> 
> No one is paranoid. I'd LOVE for Android to make a thinner lighter faster sexier tablet than iPad. I'm not steve jobs. I have no vested interest in Android failing and Apple succeeding in the tablet space. Others here have this inferiority complex that's insistent upon pointing out the shortcomings of Apple every time a new tablet comes out. I can't believe we're going over this again. I really thought a lesson was learned. Guess not. :nono2:
> 
> Keep telling us how new tablets are better than iPads please. We all want to hear it. Really. It's fascinating.


So far, the only thing I'd like to see on my iPad2 is an HDMI output port. Aside from that it blows the Xoom and Acer away. Just an opinion, nobody has to go berserk over this....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Oh man, say it ain't so, SAY IT AIN'T SO!! :lol:


It's a 21-700, not one of my beloved 20-700s. I've already returned a couple 21-700s. I don't like ALL the 700s....:lol:

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

"rich584" said:


> So far, the only thing I'd like to see on my iPad2 is an HDMI output port. Aside from that it blows the Xoom and Acer away. Just an opinion, nobody has to go berserk over this....:lol:
> 
> Rich


Rich, have you met http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC953ZM/A?

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC953ZM/A, have you met Rich?

You two kids have fun.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> So far, the only thing I'd like to see on my iPad2 is an HDMI output port.


$39 here.


----------



## tcusta00

"rich584" said:


> It's a 21-700, not one of my beloved 20-700s. I've already returned a couple 21-700s. I don't like ALL the 700s....:lol:
> 
> Rich


Oh good God, I misread that. My whole world was about to be shaken! Thanks for clarifying. hew: :lol:


----------



## bobukcat

tcusta00 said:


> No, you haven't disparaged the iPad yet today. Please tell us again how much better XXX is than iPad. We all want to hear it again. Please. The suspense is killing us.


It does make perfect sense to compare any new product to the current market leader, and the iPad is that in spades in the tablet market. If a new pickup truck comes out you compare it to an F150, car magazines compare luxury mid-size sedans to the BMW 3 series, portable media players will be compared to the iPod, etc. etc.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Seriously now. *The only way to compete with Apple is to sell similar products cheaper than they do.* Apple's already selling their iPads at a lower profit margin than their iPods and iPhones.


If that were true...there would be no need for an iPad3.

It's great that folks enjoy their iPads - really. If they find they do what they need...that's a good thing.

Some of us have higher expectations - starting with memory storage expansion for large files (including video files) and an HD-resolution screen - all driven by what we expect a tablet to do. It's reasonable to assume that exactly why there are choices.

If you become a 2-tablet family - cool. I bet you both will enjoy them, regardless of make / model.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Some of us have higher expectations


 This. This right here is what I have a problem with. This attitude. Like the iPad adopters are stupid and have low expectations. :nono:

Comparing products is fine. Disparaging the products and their users is another story altogether.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> This. This right here is what I have a problem with. This attitude. Like the iPad adopters are stupid and have low expectations. :nono:
> 
> Comparing products is fine. Disparaging the products and their users is another story altogether.


Despite that you've chosen to turn it personal...

Obviously you are insulted every time anyone questions anything that could be construed as less than perfect coming from Apple. That's paranoia.

Apple adopters are early adopters...no other assessment has been made, but you insist on repeatedly twisting or misrepresenting it into some kind of insultive comment. Questioning Apple on anything they've done is viewed by you as insulting anyone who has purchased an Apple product. Wrong - it has *nothing* to do with Apple customers - you are just choosing to hear it through obsessively-defensive ears.

Apple is not perfect - get over it, and move on.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Despite that you've chosen to turn it personal...
> 
> Obviously you are insulted every time anyone questions anything that could be construed as less than perfect coming from Apple. That's paranoia.
> 
> Apple adopters are early adopters...no other assessment has been made, but you insist on repeatedly twisting or misrepresenting it into some kind of insultive comment. Questioning Apple on anything they've done is viewed by you as insulting anyone who has purchased an Apple product. Wrong - it has nothing to do with Apple customers - you are just choosing to hear it through obsessively-defensive ears.
> 
> Apple is not perfect - get over it, and move on.


No it's just me. You're right. No one else is sick of hearing you rail on Apple and its users.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

More details on Android Honeycomb v3.1 that is coming out very soon...Xoom will get it first, according to the Google I/O general session spokesperson, followed by other tablets in a few weeks.

Some of it includes fixes to flaws identified in the file location methodology used previously. That has been cited by a number of early Android 3 adopters as a user nuisance. Lots of good information here:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/227588/android_honeycomb_31_details_emerge_the_little_things_add_up.html



> *Android Honeycomb 3.1 Details Emerge: The Little Things Add Up*
> 
> We now have more information about what Android 3.1 brings to the party, thanks to the full revision notes on Google's developer site, and the changes are more far-reaching and important than Google implied.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

A great deal of information is coming out of the Google I/O Conference this year.

Here is another detailed piece outlining Google's Android platform *strategy*, including their approach to both tablets and smart-phones:

http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/google-announces-plans-advance-consolidate-android-development-136104



> The next version of Android OS, called "Ice Cream Sandwich" by the company, will provide a superset of the functionality found in today's tablet-based "Honeycomb" system. But it will work on both smart phones and tablets, Google says.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Rich, have you met http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC953ZM/A?
> 
> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC953ZM/A, have you met Rich?
> 
> You two kids have fun.


We didn't get along as well as I thought we would. Just bought it on Amazon, free shipping, no taxes. Thanx so much for the tip! My granddaughter watched me viewing a NF offering the other day and said, "Grandpa, the screen's too small." Out of the mouths of babes!

Thanx again,

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> $39 here.


Cheaper on Amazon. But thanx for the tip.

Rich


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Oh good God, I misread that. My whole world was about to be shaken! Thanks for clarifying. hew: :lol:


My 20-700s are upset...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> If that were true...there would be no need for an iPad3.
> 
> It's great that folks enjoy their iPads - really. If they find they do what they need...that's a good thing.
> 
> Some of us have higher expectations - starting with memory storage expansion for large files (including video files) and an HD-resolution screen - all driven by what we expect a tablet to do. It's reasonable to assume that exactly why there are choices.
> 
> If you become a 2-tablet family - cool. I bet you both will enjoy them, regardless of make / model.


Looks like I won't have a choice, when the wife wants something, nothing stops her. Cost me $7000 for a vasectomy reversal 22 years ago. Elective surgery, the money came out of my pocket. She is not to be denied! Best 7 grand I ever spent, by the way.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Yesterday....Google handed out *free* Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 Limited Edition Android Honeycomb tablets to all five thousand or so attendees of its Google I/O 2011 Conference.

_[Apparently a few attendees decided to take the ebay route to make some money...saw a few for over $1K there yesterday afternoon - ouch]_

Here is an unboxing video that shows more about the new Samsung tablet, the regular version expected in stores some time about June 8th:


----------



## tcusta00

"rich584" said:


> We didn't get along as well as I thought we would. Just bought it on Amazon, free shipping, no taxes. Thanx so much for the tip! My granddaughter watched me viewing a NF offering the other day and said, "Grandpa, the screen's too small." Out of the mouths of babes!
> 
> Thanx again,
> 
> Rich


Now Rich, you know that for $100 you can get an Apple TV and stream from your iPad to your TV with no wires?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

More info from the Conference:

Google TV and any Android device will be integrated within the next 90 days in Android v3.1 Honeycomb, including a growing list of Android apps.

Once the updated version is released 4Q 2011, that new Android "Ice Cream Sandwich" version will support...phone, tablet, and Google TV apps deliverable on one single version platform to all devices - potentially over 200,000 apps. A developer can create one app, and then distribute to any Android device. This is an interesting strategy coming from Google.

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-tv-is-getting-android-apps-this-summer-2011-5


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*IMPORTANT UPDATE *on the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Android tablet:

There are now a couple of hands on reports from the Google I/O conference on YouTube. These have all said this new tablet is a great unit across the board - however - they have also reported that there is no USB or SD memory card support seen in those units, unlike most of the other Android tablets but just like the iPad.

[That would be a show-stopper here]


----------



## Drucifer

*This 24-carat Gold Kindle is the Most Expensive E-Reader Ever*










> Amazon's Kindle may have recently gotten its price slashed to $114, but . . . .


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetrev...reader-ever/24549?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE


----------



## Steve

Drucifer said:


> *This 24-carat Gold Kindle is the Most Expensive E-Reader Ever*


I'll bet *this* comes pre-loaded!


----------



## BudShark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *IMPORTANT UPDATE *on the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Android tablet:
> 
> There are now a couple of hands on reports from the Google I/O conference on YouTube. These have all said this new tablet is a great unit across the board - however - they have also reported that there is no USB or SD memory card support seen in those units, unlike most of the other Android tablets but just like the iPad.
> 
> [That would be a show-stopper here]


What... you mean to get the weight and thinness down to an iPad level - you have to forego the inputs and move it to an external add-on device??? Who would have thought. :sure:

Have you ever looked at an iPad2 and examined a USB port next to it? The CCK is thicker than the body of an iPad 2 for a reason.

I get that there is an issue with your opinion about Apple's operating system, but you'd have to agree, no one knows how to build hardware like Apple. Samsung is learning, but Apple still takes the cake. They chose external connections for a couple reasons 1) Not everyone needs or uses them so keep the complexity and weight out. Standard Apple design. 2) To get to the iPad 2, they had to remove them (and by the way, just so this point is clear. The iPad2 design/specs/expectations were in place when the iPad1 shipped... so they aren't in the iPad1 because it would be stupid to put them in a first gen product just to yank them out for the 2nd gen) - there just flat out isn't the ability to put a standard USB connector on something that thin. 3) USB isn't the desired final state anyways. By sticking with the 30 pin connector they can keep universal compatibility and add things like Thunderbolt and HDMI options, without excluding previous generation products.

iPads have all the hardware you want (SD readers, USB ports, HDMI, VGA, etc etc etc). From an operating system perspective they do not give you the file browsing you want or the "openness"... but like you say not everyone needs that.

To bring it full circle... Apple excluded these things for a reason and not because they hate... because its a design requirement. Samsung seems to have come to the same conclusion.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BudShark said:


> What... you mean to get the weight and thinness down to an iPad level - you have to forego the inputs and move it to an external add-on device??? Who would have thought. :sure:
> 
> Have you ever looked at an iPad2 and examined a USB port next to it? The CCK is thicker than the body of an iPad 2 for a reason.


I guess folks aren't familiar with mini-USB or mini-SD cards....support for either of those requires only a gram or two of weight, and miniscule thickness in a device. 

USB support and extended storage are common on many other model Android-based tablets.


----------



## BudShark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I guess folks aren't familiar with mini-USB or mini-SD cards....support for either of those requires only a gram or two of weight, and miniscule thickness in a device.
> 
> USB support and extended storage are common on many other model Android-based tablets.


So the 2 thinnest tablets on the market bypass USB and SD, including a thinner version of a tablet from a company that includes those ports on their previous model... and yet your certain that they could have added them without a measurable impact to the product?

So whats the theory as to why they didn't put them in? Why did Apple make the add ons? Why did Samsung remove them when they made the "all-new" thinner Galaxy II tab?

My guess is its a design tradeoff. Why put them in if they add any size or weight? And ultimately, how frequently are people using these ports that it warrants adding cost/size/weight to a product? And... considering there is no example on the market of a sub-9mm tablet, are you that certain it really has as minimal an impact to the engineering of the product as you claim?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BudShark said:


> So the 2 thinnest tablets on the market bypass USB and SD, including a thinner version of a tablet from a company that includes those ports on their previous model... and yet your certain that they could have added them without a measurable impact to the product?


There are others just about the same thickness with USB and SD card support (Android-based).

The debate over the value of memory expansion and USB connectivity has already come and gone more than once. If you want to keep any significant video files and others on your tablet...than the SD card can come into play. If you want to migrate digital images or other files directly to a tablet, then USB is a connectivity standard with cameras, PCs, and other devices. For those reasons, it is no surprise all but 1 of the new Android tablets feature those items. Then there's the HD screen resolution for viewing HD video content.

Different users have different needs, which is likely the main reason these choices exist. Choices are good.


----------



## BudShark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There are others just about the same thickness with USB and SD card support (Android-based).




Ummm... No. Not really. The Galaxy Tab was 12mm thick, the Xoom is 13mm thick. There's a reason Apple and Samsung made a big deal about being at the 9mm level - and its not because all the other tablets were there.

I didn't mention HD screen resolution... why's that matter to thickness and connectivity options?

USB and SD and HDMI are all available on Apple iPads. No issues there. You don't like how its done, but its a lie to say I can't take a digital camera and plug it into my iPad. I do it all the time with my CCK. And when I don't? I personally appreciate the lack of holes/ports/connections/weight that having it built in would cause. Personal preference, but lets not beat someone up for not having something they do.

I don't know what Samsung has for adding USB ports, but I'm sure they will have sometehing.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

BudShark said:


> :USB and SD and HDMI are all available on Apple iPads. No issues there. *You don't like how its done*...


Correct. Add-on connectors are not a preference if avoidable.

Actually, the memory expansion for storage is the > of the 2 items.


> I don't know what Samsung has for adding USB ports, but I'm sure they will have sometehing.


Now I've found conflicting information on the USB. This site indicates it does have a mini-USB port, while other sites say no:

http://www.androidauthority.com/the-best-android-tablets-of-2011-compared-spreadsheets-11841/

_[I'm glad I just found this comparison chart, as its pretty new and contains many of the more recent/popular Android units]_


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The debate over the value of memory expansion and USB connectivity has already come and gone more than once.


Your kidding right? This is just today:



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Some of us have higher expectations - starting with memory storage expansion for large files (including video files) and an HD-resolution screen - all driven by what we expect a tablet to do. It's reasonable to assume that exactly why there are choices.


Bud is right though. It's really not accurate to say that the iPad 2 does NOT do SD cards, HDMI, and USB. I frankly love the fact I can take the SD card out of my Nikon and import all the photos directly into the iPad to view them on a bigger screen when on the go.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Bud is right though. It's really not accurate to say that the iPad 2 does NOT do SD cards, HDMI, and USB. *I frankly love the fact I can take the SD card out of my Nikon and import all the photos directly into the iPad to view them on a bigger screen when on the go*.


A nice thing to be able to do for sure...then again...doing it simpler (and faster) might also be a good thing via USB direct-connect.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> A nice thing to be able to do for sure...then again...doing it simpler (and faster) might also be a good thing via USB direct-connect.


Simpler and faster? Not necessarily. If you talk to any photographer, you only format the card in the camera. If you want to remove pictures, it's better to remove the card and place it in a reader. It's faster, more efficient and doesn't use the battery in the camera.


----------



## BudShark

hdtvfan0001 said:


> A nice thing to be able to do for sure...then again...doing it simpler (and faster) might also be a good thing via USB direct-connect.


The CCK for iPads includes both a USB and an SD adapter. So yes you can directly import into an iPad via USB.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Actually, the memory expansion for storage is the > of the 2 items.


I actually agree with you on this to a point. It would be nice to throw a SD card in and expand the memory. The only problem I see with that is it might slow the entire tablet down. Thinking off the top of my head, wouldn't reading from a memory card be slower than reading from on-chip memory? I don't know if I would like that and I can see why Apple didn't do it.


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Now I've found conflicting information on the USB. This site indicates it does have a mini-USB port, while other sites say no:
> 
> http://www.androidauthority.com/the-best-android-tablets-of-2011-compared-spreadsheets-11841/
> 
> _[I'm glad I just found this comparison chart, as its pretty new and contains many of the more recent/popular Android units]_


This unboxing, though a little brief and slightly blurry makes it look like there may be a large proprietary connector on the Tab 10.1 and they supply a cable to convert to USB (sounds a little "fruity" to me :lol.

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/05/10/limited-edition-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-unboxing/

And FYI, if they have any USB connector it would certainly expect it to be Micro, not Mini as the size difference is considerable. (The Xoom has a micro-USB slot)


----------



## klang

Regarding storage for video, I see in iTunes a two hour TV show minus commercials is about an hour and a half. 720P video plus 5.1 Dolby Digital is 2.5 to 2.75 GB. I've got 50GB free on my 64GB iPad2. That's enough room for about 25 hours of 720P video. Why carry around 25 hours of video?


----------



## bobukcat

Chris Blount said:


> I actually agree with you on this to a point. It would be nice to throw a SD card in and expand the memory. The only problem I see with that is it might slow the entire tablet down. Thinking off the top of my head, wouldn't reading from a memory card be slower than reading from on-chip memory? I don't know if I would like that and I can see why Apple didn't do it.


True, accessing the SD card should be slower than on-board memory but not as drastically so as it used to be - provided you are using a high-speed SD card. Remember that both memory stores are / would be Flash-based memory on these tablets.


----------



## bobukcat

klang said:


> Regarding storage for video, I see in iTunes a two hour TV show minus commercials is about an hour and a half. 720P video plus 5.1 Dolby Digital is 2.5 to 2.75 GB. I've got 50GB free on my 64GB iPad2. That's enough room for about 25 hours of 720P video. Why carry around 25 hours of video?


Depends on how much music (I can easily fill about 35 GB with my music library), pictures, etc. you have on there as well I suppose.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> I actually agree with you on this to a point. It would be nice to throw a SD card in and expand the memory. The only problem I see with that is it might slow the entire tablet down. *Thinking off the top of my head, wouldn't reading from a memory card be slower than reading from on-chip memory?* I don't know if I would like that and I can see why Apple didn't do it.


Excellent point Chris. I wonder, though, if its mostly being used to store large files and free up the memory for that chore...perhaps the performance is nominally impacted and infrequently only when loading those big files. :shrug:

HD video takes up alot of space...and on a long airplane trip...you might be looking at 8-10 hours round trip viewing.

Honestly, I suspect that whenever iPad3 rolls out...Apple might consider a few more connectivity/storage options. No question they own the show with tablets at this time - millions sold/out there already.

Perhaps we'll see the competitive market drive the two main alternatives of iOS and Android continue to improve themselves with the general consumer the big winner in the end. The more things these devices can do, the more they become something beyond an "option" or "toy".

I guess that is where some of the excitement from the Google I/O Conference came from as well - they showed alot of neat possibilities. Their Day One presentation (on YouTube) features both a long list of potential and another list of what is coming soon.

The Apple Conference is approaching, and I'd be very surprised if they didn't also have some neat new things to wet the appetite.


----------



## klang

bobukcat said:


> Depends on how much music (I can easily fill about 35 GB with my music library), pictures, etc. you have on there as well I suppose.


True, most of my music is still on CD's or albums waiting to be digitized. Still at about 2 GB an hour a 64GB tablet can hold a lot of hours of 720P video.


----------



## bobukcat

klang said:


> True, most of my music is still on CD's or albums waiting to be digitized. Still at about 2 GB an hour a 64GB tablet can hold a lot of hours of 720P video.


No doubt, the largest internal memory on any of the Android tablets so far has been 32GB I believe so being able to expand that if you want to have all your music plus a good amount of other data would be more beneficial to some.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> Depends on how much music (I can easily fill about 35 GB with my music library), pictures, etc. you have on there as well I suppose.


Why store your music library on a tablet, and not on a more convenient to carry iPod (or equivalent media player)? Just curious.


----------



## klang

bobukcat said:


> No doubt, the largest internal memory on any of the Android tablets so far has been 32GB I believe so being able to expand that if you want to have all your music plus a good amount of other data would be more beneficial to some.


Ah, my bad. I hadn't noticed they only had 32GB.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Ah, my bad. I hadn't noticed they only had 32GB.


Yup...only 16GB and 32GB models.

I have to wonder, however, if storing lots of video/music content in memory on any tablet has an adverse effect on performance when doing other things on the tablet (as opposed to storing it on some other storage medium). :shrug:


----------



## RasputinAXP

So I got 3.1 onto my Wifi Xoom today.

Freaking painful, wiped my whole device, but it's definitely faster than it was.

I think I'm staying rooted from now on.

Edited to add my description of the process:

I had to unlock the bootloader, which wiped the entire thing; I then loaded the wrong (3G, not wifi) boot image onto the device, had to go hunting and find the correct one, then load a rooted image, then a recovery image, then the original image, and sideload the update onto an SD card in recovery. That updated it and then reloaded a fresh bootloader into it, which leaves me at 3.1...I should have waited a week or two for the clean, no wiping update, but...I'm a glutton for punishment.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> So I got 3.1 onto my Wifi Xoom today.
> 
> Freaking painful, wiped my whole device, but it's definitely faster than it was.
> 
> I think I'm staying rooted from now on.


Did it activate anything new for you?


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup...only 16GB and 32GB models.
> 
> I have to wonder, however, if storing lots of video/music content in memory on any tablet has an adverse effect on performance when doing other things on the tablet (as opposed to storing it on some other storage medium). :shrug:


So is the real problem iPad's lack of removable storage or Androids lack of internal storage. :grin:

No idea on the performance question.


----------



## RasputinAXP

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Did it activate anything new for you?


So far only resizable widgets. Haven't played with it enough yet. I want to get that USB host dongle adapter thing and start playing with what crazy things I can plug into it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> So is the real problem iPad's lack of removable storage or Androids lack of internal storage.


I'm not sure there is any "problem"...just different approaches.

Once tablets grow in their capabilities over time (including new apps, etc.) we might get some kind of idea as to how things are/are not impacted. The introduction of "cloud-based" functions later this year seems kinda interesting to follow.

None of this stuff stays constant for very long - new tablets, new operating system versions, etc.


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> Why store your music library on a tablet, and not on a more convenient to carry iPod (or equivalent media player)? Just curious.


For me it would be one less thing to carry. Once I purchase a tablet, It will be with me whenever I travel. I don't want to have a music player to lug around too (plus, I've never owned an ipod, so that would be one more thing I'd need to buy).


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> For me it would be one less thing to carry. Once I purchase a tablet, It will be with me whenever I travel. I don't want to have a music player to lug around too (plus, I've never owned an ipod, so that would be one more thing I'd need to buy).


Gotcha. I'm retired and have no need for a smartphone, but if I did, I'd probably put the music on there instead of the iPod. I most often listen to music while walking around, or driving, or doing something else that requires my hands to be free, and I can't imagine how I'd manage any of that using a tablet for playback.


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> Gotcha. I'm retired and have no need for a smartphone, but if I did, I'd probably put the music on there instead of the iPod. I most often listen to music while walking around, or driving, or doing something else that requires my hands to be free, and I can't imagine how I'd manage any of that using a tablet for playback.


I do have most of my music on my Droid phone (and can stream it to my surround system using blue tooth) so I'd be covered there too. However, most of the time when I want to listen to music, I'm sitting on a plane or driving a rental car.


----------



## trdrjeff

I hardly use my ipod since I got a smartphone and Slacker. I have a large SD card on it for the all time favs but for regular listening of newer stuff it's usually playing slacker.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Now Rich, you know that for $100 you can get an Apple TV and stream from your iPad to your TV with no wires?


Last one of them I bought was a disappointment. Kinda hard to remember why, I think it was supposed to stream 1080p NF content and didn't.

Hmm. Just reread that and gotta wonder how it handles the sound. Do you know? I have one AV receiver that has HDMI pass-thru ports. Hmm.

Rich


----------



## Steve

trdrjeff said:


> I hardly use my ipod since I got a smartphone and Slacker. I have a large SD card on it for the all time favs but for regular listening of newer stuff it's usually playing slacker.


I know what you mean. Besides replacing our kitchen laptop, the iPad has also replaced our kitchen radio, thanks to Pandora and Spark.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> Why store your music library on a tablet, and not on a more convenient to carry iPod (or equivalent media player)? Just curious.


I store on both. More flexibility.


----------



## raott

klang said:


> So is the real problem iPad's lack of removable storage or Androids lack of internal storage. :grin:
> 
> No idea on the performance question.


The upside with Android is that tablets are out there that allows additional storage. Lots of choices to fit your needs. Now only if honeycomb wasn't so buggy.


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *IMPORTANT UPDATE *on the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Android tablet:
> 
> There are now a couple of hands on reports from the Google I/O conference on YouTube. These have all said this new tablet is a great unit across the board - however - they have also reported that there is no USB or SD memory card support seen in those units, unlike most of the other Android tablets but just like the iPad.
> 
> [That would be a show-stopper here]


I wouldn't be surprised to see a connector to add a USB female dongle, like Asus is doing with the transformer. I've seen those rumors posted but have not seen anything concrete.

At this point, the Asus appears to be the best package, IMO. Add a little weight but increased connectivity.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> The upside with Android is that tablets are out there that allows additional storage. Lots of choices to fit your needs. Now only if honeycomb wasn't so buggy.


Supposedly 3.1 cleans up the mess in aisle 3 for Android (file structure bugs). 


raott said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see a connector to add a USB female dongle, like ASUS is doing with the transformer. I've seen those rumors posted but have not seen anything concrete.
> 
> At this point, the ASUS appears to be the best package, IMO. Add a little weight but increased connectivity.


Could very well be. That followup post I shared indicated one site claims the Samsung will have USB connectivity support. "shrug:

I guess we'll know for sure in about 3 weeks when its scheduled to come out. I do like the ASUS as well.


----------



## raott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Supposedly 3.1 cleans up the mess in aisle 3 for Android (file structure bugs).
> 
> Could very well be. That followup post I shared indicated one site claims the Samsung will have USB connectivity support. "shrug:
> 
> I guess we'll know for sure in about 3 weeks when its scheduled to come out. I do like the ASUS as well.


Walmart.com has the Asus in stock right now (at least did 5 minutes ago). Almost pulled the trigger, but didn't.


----------



## FHSPSU67

And my ASUS 32GB transformer and dock/keyboard has been shipped 12 days early from J&R:icon_band


----------



## AttiTech

FHSPSU67 said:


> And my ASUS 32GB transformer and dock/keyboard has been shipped 12 days early from J&R:icon_band


Look forward to your full run down on it!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

AttiTech said:


> Look forward to your full run down on it!


Yup - several of us are...


----------



## tcusta00

"rich584" said:


> Last one of them I bought was a disappointment. Kinda hard to remember why, I think it was supposed to stream 1080p NF content and didn't.
> 
> Hmm. Just reread that and gotta wonder how it handles the sound. Do you know? I have one AV receiver that has HDMI pass-thru ports. Hmm.
> 
> Rich


The new one is all streaming... Hdmi out to your setup. DD audio. I just got my first one and ordered a second. For 100 bucks, check it out. Very slick. Throw pictures and videos from your iPad right up onto your big screen. Netflix streams right to it.

Worth some research at least.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

Be advised, it does not output 1080p though. And I don't know what "NF content" is, so I dunno if it does that. :lol:


----------



## RasputinAXP

So far, 3.1 is WAY snappier. Hasn't locked up yet, either. No force closes...this is a god upgrade. Browser is so much faster it's like a new machine.


----------



## AttiTech

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Be advised, it does not output 1080p though. And I don't know what "NF content" is, so I dunno if it does that. :lol:


I can't think of something that NF Content could stand for but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't use that language as an acronym


----------



## hdtvfan0001

RasputinAXP said:


> So far, 3.1 is WAY snappier. Hasn't locked up yet, either. No force closes...this is a god upgrade. Browser is so much faster it's like a new machine.


Saw a YouTube demo....the Android v3.1 browser looked awesome and fast.


----------



## Steve

AttiTech said:


> I can't think of something that NF Content could stand for but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't use that language as an acronym


I'm pretty sure he meant NetFlix.


----------



## DarkSkies

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Some of it includes fixes to flaws identified in the file location methodology used previously. That has been cited by a number of early Android 3 adopters as a user nuisance. Lots of good information here:
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/227588/android_honeycomb_31_details_emerge_the_little_things_add_up.html


Per the PC World article, it seems the 3.1 update does not fix the file system organization issue.


----------



## Steve

FWIW, I signed-up for the new cloud-based Google Music storage service today. There's no dedicated iOS app like there are Droid apps (right below), but the player functions just fine from inside Safari on the iPad (left below). It's just not as slick looking, IMHO.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> FWIW, I signed-up for the new cloud-based Google Music storage service today. There's no dedicated iOS app like there are Droid apps (right below), but the player functions just fine from inside Safari on the iPad (left below). It's just not as slick looking, IMHO.


Thank you for sharing Steve...an interesting "experiment" for comparison.

One of the YouTube demos out there for the Samsung features something similar for the browsers on the new Galaxy 10.1 tablet and the iOS rendering of the same pages. Also an interesting comparison.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DarkSkies said:


> Per the PC World article, it seems the 3.1 update does not fix the file system organization issue.


Based on this original v3.0 PC World list...they appeared to have addressed almost all of those 5 items in v3.1:

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/385690/five_things_google_needs_fix_android_3_0_honeycomb/

The update regarding v3.1:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2275..._details_emerge_the_little_things_add_up.html



> _The first big news is that this version does indeed fix 3.0's flaw that caused images to render improperly in the Gallery app. I've noted this flaw numerous times--in part because it feels like such an obvious blemish on an otherwise solid start to the Honeycomb/Android 3.x platform. While Google hasn't gone into too much detail as to what caused the issue to begin with, I do have confirmation from Google that 3.1 should fix this issue. I can hazard a few guesses, but ultimately, what matters is that it's fixed-which is why I look forward to trying out 3.1 on an array of tablets and seeing how my photos look.
> 
> Other additions to 3.1 include support for the Open Accessory and USB host APIs. By building the USB stack into Honeycomb, the platform now gets USB host abilities and tablets running Honeycomb now have operating system level-support for managing USB peripherals--including gamepads, joysticks, and storage devices--directly. Technical terms aside, this means that Android 3.1-based tablets will be able to power other gadgets through USB.
> 
> Performance tweaks abound as well. Google made improvements to the animation framework in Android 3.1, so that animations--such as the one you see when you tap the Apps menu button at the top-rightcorner of the home screen--flow more smoothly. And you can now scroll through the list of recently accessed apps that appears when you tap the task-switcher button.
> 
> "*We don't want to expose the user to file locations*," explained Hiroshi Lockheimer, director of engineering at Google. "How do you manage that as a user? *The not-good answer is with the file browser*." Lockheimer says that many of the experiences I've seen so far are what individual hardware manufacturers have enabled, as opposed to what Google has provided natively. The good thing is that Lockheimer says Google is looking at ways to do this; but the problem hasn't been solved yet.
> _


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here is the new Samsung product website on the new Galaxy 10.1.

Of note...there will be a Galaxy 8.9 version as well (a form factor size some folks asked for...).

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxytab/


----------



## hdtvfan0001

One of the interesting parallel items to *all* tablets is the corresponding online services. At the Google I/O Conference this week, they announced several new services for movies and music, but only some limited pricing model (for providers) information was provided at the time.

CNN Money reported this information about 6 weeks ago:

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/02/16/today-in-tech-android-3-1-ice-cream-apple-antitrust-issues/



> •Apple finally announced an App Store subscription service, and the details are getting some people riled up already. Among the stipulations: users must opt-in and click a button to share their contact info with publishers, Apple takes 30% of the revenue from in-app purchases like say, Amazon Kindle books, Time Inc. magazines, or Hulu Plus TV show, and no in-app links to the outside that would offer subscriptions and circumvent Apple's 30% cut. Most App Store vendors have yet to weigh in, but music subscription service Rhapsody swifly released a statement calling Apple's stipulations "economically untenable." "The bottom line is we would not be able to offer our service through the iTunes store if subjected to Apple's 30% monthly fee vs. a typical 2.5% credit card fee," the company said in a statement. According to some law professors, Apple's demands could potentially be grounds for antitrust scrutiny. (Fortune, Engadget, and Wall Street Journal)
> 
> •To take advantage of disgruntled Apple App Store vendors, *Google will reportedly undercut Apple's 30% in-app subscription take by claiming a lesser 10% in-app subscription charge*. (Moconews)


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> FWIW, I signed-up for the new cloud-based Google Music storage service today. There's no dedicated iOS app like there are Droid apps (right below), but the player functions just fine from inside Safari on the iPad (left below). It's just not as slick looking, IMHO.


You recieved an invite already?? I'm extremely jealous.....


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> You recieved an invite already?? I'm extremely jealous.....


I thought Xoom owners were in it automatically! You can request an invite.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I thought Xoom owners were in it automatically! You can request an invite.


I requested an invite roughly 30 seconds after the URL was posted in the Key Note session and I am a Xoom owner. Now I'm really feeling slighted!


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> I requested an invite roughly 30 seconds after the URL was posted in the Key Note session and I am a Xoom owner. Now I'm really feeling slighted!


I wish I could send you one. Unlike past Google betas, tho, there's no link to do that.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> The new one is all streaming... Hdmi out to your setup. DD audio. I just got my first one and ordered a second. For 100 bucks, check it out. Very slick. Throw pictures and videos from your iPad right up onto your big screen. Netflix streams right to it.
> 
> Worth some research at least.


I canceled the HDMI adapter and started to buy another Apple TV box, then I thought, what for? I really never considered the iPad as a source of TV content, I've got plenty of devices for that. All seven of my plasmas have an Internet device on them already.

I'm kinda conflicted here, what else can I do with that Apple TV? I'm interested and will do some research, but if you can suggest a use for it that I can't duplicate, I'd really appreciate it.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Be advised, it does not output 1080p though. And I don't know what "NF content" is, so I dunno if it does that. :lol:


It was supposed to a few months ago when I purchased the Apple TV. I called NF up and asked them and they told me only the PS3 and the Apple TV would stream in 1080p (on certain content, not every program) and 5.1 sound. NetFlix content is normally 720p for their "HD" content, such as _30 Rock_. I got that program in 1080p and 5.1 on our PS3, but couldn't get it on the Apple TV. When I called up NF again, they started one of those circular arguments, saying that I should call Apple for support, then Apple would tell me to contact NF and the whole thing would never end.

Got disgusted and sent the Apple TV back. Went thru the same thing with Samsung about their 5500 BD players. They insisted that they had the 5500s receiving 1080p and 5.1 in their labs. They told me to call NF and find out why I wasn't getting it. NF told me to call Sammy back and tell them that they needed to send a software update out to enable 1080p and 5.1. Called Sammy back and told them what NF said and they told me that they had the 5500s receiving a 1080p 5.1 stream without the software update. At that point, I gave up.

Rich


----------



## Rich

AttiTech said:


> I can't think of something that NF Content could stand for but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't use that language as an acronym


NetFlix content, I get sick of typing NetFlix....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> I canceled the HDMI adapter and started to buy another Apple TV box, then I thought, what for? I really never considered the iPad as a source of TV content, I've got plenty of devices for that. All seven of my plasmas have an Internet device on them already.
> 
> I'm kinda conflicted here, what else can I do with that Apple TV? I'm interested and will do some research, but if you can suggest a use for it that I can't duplicate, I'd really appreciate it.
> 
> Rich


About the only thing I can't duplicate on other boxes that the Apple TV does well is movie rentals. The quality is quite good even at 720p. There is also a very large buffer in the Apple TV so it's unlikley the movie will get interrupted.

Of course, if you don't rent movies this way, it's kind of useless. I personally always check the Apple TV first for new online movie rentals. It's the best box for the job.


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> About the only thing I can't duplicate on other boxes that the Apple TV does well is movie rentals. The quality is quite good even at 720p. There is also a very large buffer in the Apple TV so it's unlikley the movie will get interrupted.
> 
> Of course, if you don't rent movies this way, it's kind of useless. I personally always check the Apple TV first for new online movie rentals. It's the best box for the job.


I can't bring myself to rent movies. I keep thinking of the preposterous bill I pay for the Premier package. I really gotta drop that.

Well, thanx. I'm kinda disappointed. I do like new toys. 

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

Apple tv.... From my limited experience, here's what I'll be using it for:

Stream Netflix
Stream media from computers (videos/pics/music)
Stream and control music from iPad to main speakers from anywhere in house. We have a second set of speakers outside hooked up to the main receiver so when on the deck I can use the iPad as the DJ booth. 
Take a picture or video with your iPad/iPhone/iPod and immediately throw it up onto the big screen
YouTube


Lots of other uses I'm probably missing but that's going to be my main usage.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*ASUS Transformer Android v3 Tablet Hands On Demo**

*Here's a very well-done ASUS Transformer Android Tablet YouTube demo, including a good look at the optional keyboard and all the connectivity of both device components:*

[I know a couple of folks have ordered this, and will hopefully report their hands-on experiences as well in this thread]






** One interesting note in the demo - they show a 3D video demo where they state the presentation is about 10% faster than the Xoom tablet running the very same video.*


----------



## FHSPSU67

Nice video! Thanks for posting it. Mine arrives tomorrow


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> Nice video! Thanks for posting it. Mine arrives tomorrow


I'm sure your first-hand report will be even better...


----------



## FHSPSU67

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'm sure your first-hand report will be even better...


I'm excited, the last time I was this excited was when I first moved to an HDTV, and later an HR20-700.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

It appears that a rumored, but imminent launch of an Android-based Amazon tablet is catching more attention, especially after CEO Jeff Bezos did a recent interview, and all-but-confirmed it. Amazon tends NOT to do things half-heartedly. They are a marketing force.

One of the news reports came on the Cult of Mac website (some folks might be shocked that I've actually been on that site more than once ).

I was quite surprised to read both the article and the subsequent comments that followed this report. Clearly, and Amazon entry into the Android tablet world makes things "interesting":

http://www.cultofmac.com/amazon-ceo-says-stay-tuned-for-ipad-challenging-kindle-tablet/94805


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Apple tv.... From my limited experience, here's what I'll be using it for:
> 
> Stream Netflix
> Stream media from computers (videos/pics/music)
> *Stream and control music from iPad to main speakers from anywhere in house.* We have a second set of speakers outside hooked up to the main receiver so when on the deck I can use the iPad as the DJ booth.
> Take a picture or video with your iPad/iPhone/iPod and immediately throw it up onto the big screen
> YouTube
> 
> Lots of other uses I'm probably missing but that's going to be my main usage.


That's a good one! I looked into wireless speakers that popped up in an advertisement on my iPad, but they cost a lot. Can't remember the name, something like Sonus. But the one room I use the tablet in the most doesn't have a sound system...yet. I get really crappy radio reception where I live and the iPad brings it in a lot better.

Keep trying, please.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Yet more "interesting" news on the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Android tablet here at a gaming site:

They report some feature information that conflicts with other reports regarding having SD micro card support - *they say it will*. Other conflicting reports center on mini-USB support...so we may just have to see what actually is on it June 8th when its released (unless any interim hands reports clarify those two items). Last but not least...they also reference 16GB, 32GB, and 64GB versions...hmmm...

http://www.videogamingpros.com/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-specs-and-release-date-for-the-next-round-of-tablets/223281/



> 1080 p High Def video playback, Bluetooth, Wifi, a *micro-SD slot for expansion *and the Samsung Stick round out the versatile feature pack. The Stick is a Bluetooth pen-shaped microphone that can be carried in a shirt pocket.
> 
> The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 comes in 16GB, 32GB and 64GB models, and all versions support the popular Adobe Flash 10.2 that is used by many web sites and web pages to deliver the best possible gaming, video and graphics experience possible.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *ASUS Transformer Android v3 Tablet Hands On Demo**
> 
> *Here's a very well-done ASUS Transformer Android Tablet YouTube demo, including a good look at the optional keyboard and all the connectivity of both device components:*
> 
> [I know a couple of folks have ordered this, and will hopefully report their hands-on experiences as well in this thread]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ** One interesting note in the demo - they show a 3D video demo where they state the presentation is about 10% faster than the Xoom tablet running the very same video.*


That does seem interesting. $550 for the whole package, that's $50 cheaper than the Xoom. And it runs faster. Looks like they put a LOT of thought into it. Hmmm. (I'm sitting here telling myself to wait for the Galaxy, wait for the Galaxy, wait...)

Rich


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> Nice video! Thanks for posting it. Mine arrives tomorrow


I'd really like to know how easy that keyboard is to type with. My wife's Lenovo IdeaPad's keyboard looks about that size and I have difficulty typing on that.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That does seem interesting. $550 for the whole package, that's $50 cheaper than the Xoom. And it runs faster. Looks like they put a LOT of thought into it. Hmmm. (I'm sitting here telling myself to wait for the Galaxy, wait for the Galaxy, wait...)
> 
> Rich


I fell your pain. :lol:

These are interesting times in the tablet arena. The Samsung Galaxy 10.1, ASUS Transformer, Toshiba tablet, Amazon tablet, are about to enter the marketplace...and there is little doubt the Apple folks are in the midst of their work on iPad3. Six months from now...trends will start to become more clear one way or the other.

Lots to think about for sure - perhaps patience is a good thing at this moment in tablet history.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It appears that a rumored, but imminent launch of an Android-based Amazon tablet is catching more attention, especially after CEO Jeff Bezos did a recent interview, and all-but-confirmed it. Amazon tends NOT to do things half-heartedly. They are a marketing force.
> 
> One of the news reports came on the Cult of Mac website (some folks might be shocked that I've actually been on that site more than once ).
> 
> I was quite surprised to read both the article and the subsequent comments that followed this report. Clearly, and Amazon entry into the Android tablet world makes things "interesting":
> 
> http://www.cultofmac.com/amazon-ceo-says-stay-tuned-for-ipad-challenging-kindle-tablet/94805


Aw, geez, am I gonna have to wait for that, too?....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I fell your pain. :lol:
> 
> These are interesting times in the tablet arena. The Samsung Galaxy 10.1, ASUS Transformer, Toshiba tablet, Amazon tablet, are about to enter the marketplace...and there is little doubt the Apple folks are in the midst of their work on iPad3. Six months from now...trends will start to become more clear one way or the other.
> 
> Lots to think about for sure - perhaps patience is a good thing at this moment in tablet history.


My head is gonna explode.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Aw, geez, am I gonna have to wait for that, too?....:lol:
> 
> Rich


I suspect alot of these things will be more out in the open (with user hands-on and the like) by Labor Day. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement of alot of new gadgets for sure...making careful patience a virtue I suppose.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> My head is gonna explode.
> 
> Rich


This is where the doctor usually says: Take two *tablets* and call me in the morning.


----------



## Groundhog45

I think Rich needs a tablet in every room. And soon there will be enough choices to allow that.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect alot of these things will be more out in the open (with user hands-on and the like) by Labor Day. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement of alot of new gadgets for sure...making careful patience a virtue I suppose.


I gave up on that years ago. For me life if too short. If I waited for the "ultimate tablet" I would have never got one. I've been enjoying my various gadgets through the years and have enjoyed the journey of skipping from one model to another. Plus, there is always someone who buys my old stuff to help me invest in the new.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> I gave up on that years ago. For me life if too short. If I waited for the "ultimate tablet" I would have never got one. I've been enjoying my various gadgets through the years and have enjoyed the journey of skipping from one model to another. Plus, there is always someone who buys my old stuff to help me invest in the new.


All good points Chris. Life is short...but I also don't own a bank.

In my case...I'm just waiting for one that has enough functionality and connectivity to warrant spending the money - things are geting close on those fronts - even with some things I've read on iPad3, as well as the Android tablets. I don't plan to buy one every year.

It appears that a few more months of waiting will make that brief "on hold" time worthwhile.


----------



## bobukcat

This is the best article I've seen yet on Amazon's purported assault on the Android device market:

http://androidandme.com/2011/05/new...amily-of-android-devices-coming-this-holiday/

I think it would be very interesting to see a tablet with a Mirasol display focused primarily on the e-reader audience that wants additional features. At what point does the data plan stay included like it is today and not become an additional monthly bill??


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> This is the best article I've seen yet on Amazon's purported assault on the Android device market:
> 
> http://androidandme.com/2011/05/new...amily-of-android-devices-coming-this-holiday/
> 
> I think it would be very interesting to see a tablet with a Mirasol display focused primarily on the e-reader audience that wants additional features. At what point does the data plan stay included like it is today and not become an additional monthly bill??


WOW - if those rumors are all true (including the pricing tiers)...things could get very interesting in the tablet world for sure.


----------



## Rich

"tcusta00" said:


> Apple tv.... From my limited experience, here's what I'll be using it for:
> 
> Stream Netflix
> Stream media from computers (videos/pics/music)
> Stream and control music from iPad to main speakers from anywhere in house. We have a second set of speakers outside hooked up to the main receiver so when on the deck I can use the iPad as the DJ booth.
> Take a picture or video with your iPad/iPhone/iPod and immediately throw it up onto the big screen
> YouTube
> 
> Lots of other uses I'm probably missing but that's going to be my main usage.


I found the name of the wireless speakers for the iPad, go to Crutchfield and search for "Sonus". Pricey, to say the least!

Rich

Sent from my iPad2 using DBSTalk


----------



## hdtvfan0001

This information got a bit "buried" in all the excitement at Google I/O from free Samsung tablets handed out and all...but it is very interesting information...almost creating a trifecta of future technology competition.

The bigger picture is there's even more to Google's strategy starting in 4Q 2011 than tablets alone:

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/mowi/article.php/3933226


----------



## FHSPSU67

rich584 said:


> I'd really like to know how easy that keyboard is to type with. My wife's Lenovo IdeaPad's keyboard looks about that size and I have difficulty typing on that.
> 
> Rich


Just got my ASUS and I can tell I've got a rather steep learning curve, including the keyboard. It's definitely not like typing on my desktop: I find that if I just type without trying to see everything as I type, everything's fine, but I get confused if I try to watch for errors as I type because there's a definite delay between typing a character and that character showing up. Everything catches up fine and the keyboard is excellent - nice feel and easy on the fingers.

Posted from my ASUS Transformer

Fred


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> All good points Chris. Life is short...but I also don't own a bank.


You don't need to own a bank. Once to buy your first tablet, you never have to pay full price again.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> Just got my ASUS and I can tell I've got a rather steep learning curve, including the keyboard. It's definitely not like typing on my desktop: I find that if I just type without trying to see everything as I type, everythings fine, but I get confusedif I try to watch for errors as I type because there's a definite delay between typing a haracter and that character showing up. Everything catches up fine and the keyboard is excellent - nice feel and easy on the fingers.
> 
> *Posted from my ASUS Transformer*
> Fred


That's the coolest part of your report... 

More...more...bring us more...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> You don't need to own a bank. Once to buy your first tablet, you never have to pay full price again.


True, but annual obsolescence and eBay selling cycles get a bit boring. :lol:


----------



## bobukcat

FHSPSU67 said:


> Just got my ASUS and I can tell I've got a rather steep learning curve, including the keyboard. It's definitely not like typing on my desktop: I find that if I just type without trying to see everything as I type, everythings fine, but I get confusedif I try to watch for errors as I type because there's a definite delay between typing a haracter and that character showing up. Everything catches up fine and the keyboard is excellent - nice feel and easy on the fingers.
> 
> Posted from my ASUS Transformer
> 
> Fred


Hmmm, wonder why the delay on the keyboard?? I don't see that on my Xoom with the BT keyboard at all.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

bobukcat said:


> Hmmm, wonder why the delay on the keyboard?? I don't see that on my Xoom with the BT keyboard at all.


Wonder if it is based on coming with V3.0 software instead of the newer v3.1?

That newer version has some tweaks for connected devices.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> True, but annual obsolescence and eBay selling cycles get a bit boring. :lol:


Sure, but then again you can educate people with first hand observations.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Funny, it's only slow when on this site when posting???


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Sure, but then again you can educate people with first hand observations.


A valid point...and using YOUR money. 


FHSPSU67 said:


> Funny, it's only slow when on this site when posting???


Oh oh....time for the conspiracy theorists to surface... :lol:

Otherwise it's OK in terms of keyboard response time?

Hmmm...I wonder if the Java version comes into play. :shrug:


----------



## trdrjeff

Refurb Galaxy Tab for $199 w/ $15/Mo data plan (you can cancel after one month)

FYI does require Credit Check due to Data Plan

http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/deals/social-weekend.jsp?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

trdrjeff said:


> Refurb Galaxy Tab for $199 w/ $15/Mo data plan (you can cancel after one month)
> 
> http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/deals/social-weekend.jsp?


Thanks - there are certainly folks who also like the 7" form factor device in this link.


----------



## FHSPSU67

hdtvfan001 said:


> Oh oh....time for the conspiracy theorists to surface... :lol:
> 
> Otherwise it's OK in terms of keyboard response time?
> 
> Hmmm...I wonder if the Java version comes into play. :shrug:


D/l'd Dolphin HD browser and it's fixed!


----------



## bobukcat

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Wonder if it is based on coming with V3.0 software instead of the newer v3.1?
> 
> That newer version has some tweaks for connected devices.


I just manually updated mine to 3.1 last night and see no difference in the BT Keyboard performance but they did add enhancements to the USB connected devices code in 3.1 so perhaps it will improve then.


----------



## DarkSkies

I've had problems with the stock Honeycomb browser posting here ... as FHSPSU67 says, when typing on my Xoom into a Quick Reply box here there is a delay after touching each letter before it appears "on screen". I've also seen that delay when typing responses at AndroidCentral, so I think it's a vBulletin thing. Anywhere else I don't see those issues.


----------



## bobukcat

FHSPSU67 said:


> D/l'd Dolphin HD browser and it's fixed!


Interesting, you'll have to try the stock browser again when you get upgraded to 3.1 and see if it's been fixed. The overall speed of the browser has definitely been improved!


----------



## bobukcat

DarkSkies said:


> I've had problems with the stock Honeycomb browser posting here ... as FHSPSU67 says, when typing on my Xoom into a Quick Reply box here there is a delay after touching each letter before it appears "on screen". I've also seen that delay when typing responses at AndroidCentral, so I think it's a vBulletin thing. Anywhere else I don't see those issues.


I had never used the browser for posting to this site from my Xoom before because the dedicated application is so good and more convenient (thank you Devs!!) but I just tried it on the stock browser in 3.1 and there is definitely a delay, a pretty significant one at times.


----------



## FHSPSU67

bobukcat said:


> I had never used the browser for posting to this site from my Xoom before because the dedicated application is so good and more convenient (thank you Devs!!) but I just tried it on the stock browser in 3.1 and there is definitely a delay, a pretty significant one at times.


I tried to send you a link with the url of the private beta site for Dolphin HD, but your PM capacity has been exceeded.


----------



## bobukcat

FHSPSU67 said:


> I tried to send you a link with the url of the private beta site for Dolphin HD, but your PM capacity has been exceeded.


Ooops, sorry about that! I do have DolphinHD already installed (and Skyfire, and Opera LOL) but I appreciate the offer!!


----------



## houskamp

I actualy like the idea of the tranformer series tablet.. keyboard stand is cool..
but for what they want for one I'll just keep looking only.. I could buy a decent laptop (nothing super but definately useable) for what they want for what I consider to be 1/2 a computer..


----------



## tcusta00

"rich584" said:


> I found the name of the wireless speakers for the iPad, go to Crutchfield and search for "Sonus". Pricey, to say the least!
> 
> Rich
> 
> Sent from my iPad2 using DBSTalk


Yeah that's insane. Just get an airport express and use your current system. Or an aforementioned apple tv.


----------



## tcusta00

"Chris Blount" said:


> Sure, but then again you can educate people with first hand observations.


A novel idea, indeed. And..... WHOOOOOSSSHHH!!!

:lol:


----------



## bobnielsen

I just tried the new Netscape app on my Nook running CM7 (2.3 Honeycomb) and it works pretty well (the resolution could be higher, even on a 7 in. tablet). I had to trick it so it thought the Nook was one of the supported Android phones.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Yeah that's insane. Just get an airport express and use your current system. Or an aforementioned apple tv.


I'm going to Ocean City (the one in Maryland, I don't like the Jersey shore) in a couple months and after much pondering, have decided to purchase an Apple TV before I go. I know the place we're renting has Wi-Fi, but I can't find out what kind of TVs they have. I'll have to bring one of my plasmas along with me, too.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> D/l'd Dolphin HD browser and it's fixed!





DarkSkies said:


> I've had problems with the stock Honeycomb browser posting here ... as FHSPSU67 says, when typing on my Xoom into a Quick Reply box here there is a delay after touching each letter before it appears "on screen". I've also seen that delay when typing responses at AndroidCentral, so I think it's a vBulletin thing. *Anywhere else I don't see those issues*.


That last part is the most interesting. Something used on the site must be unique. In the past, even when folks used IE or other browser and had similar problems...the version of Java installed on the device was proven to be the source when using vBulletin websites. Hmmm....interesting. Thanks for both of you sharing.


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> I'm going to Ocean City (the one in Maryland, I don't like the Jersey shore) in a couple months and after much pondering, have decided to purchase an Apple TV before I go. I know the place we're renting has Wi-Fi, but I can't find out what kind of TVs they have. I'll have to bring one of my plasmas along with me, too.
> 
> Rich


I think you will be happy with it. Just hope the wifi is fast enough to handle streaming.


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> Just got my ASUS and I can tell I've got a rather steep learning curve, including the keyboard. It's definitely not like typing on my desktop: I find that if I just type without trying to see everything as I type, everything's fine, but I get confused if I try to watch for errors as I type *because there's a definite delay between typing a character and that character showing up*. Everything catches up fine and the keyboard is excellent - nice feel and easy on the fingers.
> 
> Posted from my ASUS Transformer
> 
> Fred


I can remember having those typing problems on the old DOS based PCs before we switched to Macs. I really don't remember what caused it to happen, but it was a PITA. I'm sure your Asus isn't as bad as they were. You could type a whole sentence and sit back and wait for it to appear on the screen.

Is the keyboard illuminated? I bought an illuminated (white light) keyboard and now I have a hard time typing on a regular keyboard.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I really don't remember what caused it to happen, but it was a PITA. I'm sure your Asus isn't as bad as they were. You could type a whole sentence and sit back and wait for it to appear on the screen.
> 
> Is the keyboard illuminated? I bought an illuminated (white light) keyboard and now I have a hard time typing on a regular keyboard.
> 
> Rich


It's important to note that both posters reported this for vBulletin websites only. :shrug:

On another front...

While I am admittedly only a random/part-time gamer....I have always admired and respected the fact that the game users of various devices often push the envelope in what technology can/should do.

The horsepower, graphical display quality, connectivity, and other capabilities of hardware desired for gaming often exposes the limitations of devices. If technology can handle some of the newest games, they often can handle conventional applications quite well too.

For that reason...this recent article was interesting, as it looked at a long list of new/upcoming tablets from a gamer's view. It also includes some interesting new information, including the rumored Xoom 2 tablet with a quad-core processor, among other things coming *soon*:

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Top+10+Android+charts/feature.asp?c=29843


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's important to note that both posters reported this for vBulletin websites only. :shrug:
> 
> While I am admittedly only a random/part-time gamer....I have always admired and respected the fact that the game users of various devices often push the envelope in what technology can/should do.
> 
> The horsepower, graphical display quality, connectivity, and other capabilities of hardware desired for gaming often exposes the limitations of devices. If technology can handle some of the newest games, they often can handle conventional applications quite well too.
> 
> For that reason...this recent article was interesting, as it looked at a long list of new/upcoming tablets from a gamer's view. It also includes some interesting new information, including the rumored Xoom 2 tablet with a quad-core processor, among other things coming *soon*:
> 
> http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Top+10+Android+charts/feature.asp?c=29843


Very biased. He writes off the iPad right at the beginning. The iPad is a very good at gaming.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Very biased. He writes off the iPad right at the beginning. *The iPad is a very good at gaming*.


He says the Ipad is good right in the beginning...doesn't really "write off" the iPad:



> Yes, it is rather wonderful, and the game support is staggering, but there are still some niggling issues that take the shine off the supremely shiny device.


I have yet to read an iPad-based or Android-based article that isn't at least partially biased towards one OS or the other. But the main topic on this deals with the new/upcoming Android offerings in the context of gaming.


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> I think you will be happy with it. Just hope the wifi is fast enough to handle streaming.


I'm just assuming it will be. If not, I'll be hanging off the balcony listening to the Yankees games on the radio. I usually go to OC and check out the places before I rent one, but I didn't really want to go this year (one of my dogs is on his last legs and I'm having a hard time with the idea of boarding him. If he gets much worse, my wife will have to go by herself with the kids. I can't bear that thought of him dying in a kennel alone) so we did the rental by phone. It's a place we've stayed at before, but someone bought the whole building and is renting out the condos. Usually we rent from individuals. I can see this trip being a real ordeal.

Easier to go than argue with the wife.

Rich


----------



## TBlazer07

trdrjeff said:


> Refurb Galaxy Tab for $199 w/ $15/Mo data plan (you can cancel after one month)
> 
> FYI does require Credit Check due to Data Plan
> 
> http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/deals/social-weekend.jsp?


$329 for the iPad 1 refurb from them as well.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> It's important to note that both posters reported this for vBulletin websites only. :shrug:
> 
> On another front...
> 
> While I am admittedly only a random/part-time gamer....I have always admired and respected the fact that the game users of various devices often push the envelope in what technology can/should do.
> 
> The horsepower, graphical display quality, connectivity, and other capabilities of hardware desired for gaming often exposes the limitations of devices. If technology can handle some of the newest games, they often can handle conventional applications quite well too.
> 
> For that reason...this recent article was interesting, as it looked at a long list of new/upcoming tablets from a gamer's view. It also includes some interesting new information, including the rumored Xoom 2 tablet with a quad-core processor, among other things coming *soon*:
> 
> http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Top+10+Android+charts/feature.asp?c=29843


Interesting article. From a gamer's POV. Having been seriously addicted to the early Nintendo games, I've avoided games. But the gamers do have a lot of knowledge to share. My son is a good resource for some things I don't understand, but his whole life is centered around games and I don't think it's healthy.

Still, a good article.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

For those who like the 7" tablet form factor (not my choice, but I know some people like it)...

Here is the first 4G-based tablet coming from Dell:

http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/Cell-Phone-Detail.aspx?cell-phone=Dell-Streak-7&cm_mmc_o=Vzbp+mwzygt*VAygtzlw*VyBpAgf+mA55Byf*VyBpAgf+mA55Byf


----------



## hdtvfan0001

As many know...information about iPad3 is pretty sparce.

While Samsung is offering direct competition to the iPad in building Android-based tablets...

Could this be the *iPad3* display, also coming from Samsung?:

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-10-1-2560-x-1600-tablet-panel-could-be-ipad-3s-retina-display-13151756/


----------



## Rich

Getting seriously worried. Can't get the iPad out of my wife's hands. I gotta feeling I'm gonna have to buy her one, just so I can use mine. She did try out the Android tablets I had and had no interest in them, but the iPad's another story.

I'm trying to be fair and unbiased about both the Androids and the iPads, but I gotta say the iPad2 is really a great tablet. I was absolutely convinced that the Droid phone I bought was far superior to the wife's iPhone, but now I'm beginning to question that. 

I'm not gonna give up on the Android tablets, I'm gonna wait for the very best, by consensus, Android tablet to appear and I'll try it, but I gotta feeling...

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I'm not gonna give up on the Android tablets, I'm gonna wait for the very best, by consensus, Android tablet to appear and I'll try it, but I gotta feeling...


Likely a good approach.

Based on everything I've seen, tried, and read to date...I'm included to narrow my search for a tablet to the best Android (Ice Cream Sandwich-based) tablet and iPad3 - meaning pushing back the buying process.

I only want to do this once and have the device do things for a few years, and not turn it into an annual event. between those two final choices...it seems that a few months of waiting will reap years of satisfaction.

Measure repeatedly...cut once.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Likely a good approach.
> 
> Based on everything I've seen, tried, and read to date...I'm included to narrow my search for a tablet to the best Android (Ice Cream Sandwich-based) tablet and iPad3 - meaning pushing back the buying process.
> 
> *I only want to do this once and have the device do things for a few years, and not turn it into an annual event.* between those two final choices...it seems that a few months of waiting will reap years of satisfaction.


That's the one thing that really bothers me about the iPad. I know I'm gonna want an iPad3...iPad4...iPad5, etc. And I don't feel like going thru this every year. But the Androids are gonna be the same way, I think.

Competition is good for us, the consumers, but this could get ridiculous. This is getting to be like a shark feeding frenzy.

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> He says the Ipad is good right in the beginning...doesn't really "write off" the iPad:
> 
> I have yet to read an iPad-based or Android-based article that isn't at least partially biased towards one OS or the other. But the main topic on this deals with the new/upcoming Android offerings in the context of gaming.


"Consider the bizarre lack of Flash support, which creates a distinctly web 1.0 browsing experience, or the upscaled iPhone interface that leaves you with a work area like a cluttered PC desktop - filled with endless shortcuts and a general sense of disordered chaos.

Meanwhile, Google's Honeycomb OS is so streamlined, stylish, and user friendly it makes Tom Cruise's office in Minority Report look out of date."

You left that part out. Again, he's very bias.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> "Consider the bizarre lack of Flash support, which creates a distinctly web 1.0 browsing experience, or the upscaled iPhone interface that leaves you with a work area like a cluttered PC desktop - filled with endless shortcuts and a general sense of disordered chaos.
> 
> Meanwhile, Google's Honeycomb OS is so streamlined, stylish, and user friendly it makes Tom Cruise's office in Minority Report look out of date."
> 
> You left that part out. Again, he's very bias.


Like I said in my previous post...I've seen it go the other way just as much. It's almost impossible to find any piece on either iOS or Android that isn't. The Flash shortcoming debate is nothing new.

If folks can get past the brief hype either way...there's some good information in that piece.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That's the one thing that really bothers me about the iPad. I know I'm gonna want an iPad3...iPad4...iPad5, etc. And I don't feel like going thru this every year. But the Androids are gonna be the same way, I think.
> 
> Competition is good for us, the consumers, *but this could get ridiculous. This is getting to be like a shark feeding frenzy.*Rich


Exactly.

When it gets to a point where one believes they see enough functionality to warrant spending the money...its probably time to take the plunge. For me, we're not there yet...for others...its the right time or has been previously.

That's a personal buying decision that will vary for each individual.


----------



## Sixto

One person's view ...

I'll spend a few hundred a year and I'll always have the latest and greatest for hopefully a very long time, otherwise every year I'll be jealous of something new. 

Got 60% for my iPad1, and certainly enjoying the iPad2, and looking forward to whatever the iPad3 brings. Never a second thought, hopefully for a very long time, and hopefully some iOS goodies next month. 

Again, just one person's view, as I'm sure others might rightly need/want to be more financially reserved, which is cool. 

It only took a few minutes to upgrade with a simple backup and restore.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

I just found this comparison video review featuring the iPad2 vs the Android-based ASUS Transformer. The reviewer does a great job of showing off the strengths of both devices, and also comparing in a non-intrusive way.

WARNING - this thing is 22 minutes long but moves quickly.

WARNING #2 - this in-depth comparison is done by someone who is an admitted iPad2 advocate. He makes a point (twice) to include that disclaimer. But I found him to be quite objective and fair towards both devices.

This video provides a great deal of useful information on both the iPad2 and ASUS Transformer...it's educational and informative. Enjoy.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Nice reviews!
ASUS has been all I could hope for. The only con so far for me is that Windows 7 seems to having trouble with the Eee Pad Suite which allows (or will) remote access to my desktop PC.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> Nice reviews!
> ASUS has been all I could hope for. The only con so far for me is that Windows 7 seems to having trouble with the Eee Pad Suite which allows (or will) remote access to my desktop PC.


Good to hear from your day of hands-on. I bet you're having alot of fun.

Have you heard anything yet about the 3.1 Android update for the ASUS Transformer yet? [Supposedly it will be available in June some time]

Also - are you going to post any photos or other review information?

Battery life?

You seem to be first on your block, and most of the the online reviews are limited, in terms of functional details.


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> "Consider the bizarre lack of Flash support, which creates a distinctly web 1.0 browsing experience, or the upscaled iPhone interface that leaves you with a work area like a cluttered PC desktop - filled with endless shortcuts and a general sense of disordered chaos.
> 
> Meanwhile, *Google's Honeycomb OS is so streamlined, stylish, and user friendly it makes Tom Cruise's office in Minority Report look out of date*."
> 
> You left that part out. Again, he's very bias.


I read that whole review and the comment in bold is so biased I couldn't believe what I was reading. But, I've only used two Android tablets so that shouldn't qualify me to argue his point. But based on what I've seen, he's got that opinion backwards.

When I quit my job and began teaching at a local college, I was asked to teach computer classes and I was kinda leery about teaching PC classes. But, I quickly saw how much like a Mac the PCs had become and my years of using Macs became very useful. I think that's what we're seeing in the Android tablets. The computer I'm typing this on is an HP desktop that is very much like the last Mac I used so many years ago. It seems to me that the folks making the tablets are playing catch-up with Apple and their iPads just as the PC makers did with their computers. They're just doing it faster and better. Will they make a better tablet than the iPad? That's the question.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I read that whole review and the comment in bold is so biased I couldn't believe what I was reading. But, I've only used two Android tablets so that shouldn't qualify me to argue his point. But based on what I've seen, he's got that opinion backwards.
> 
> Rich


You might want to view the linked video review in Post #1071 then...its done by an admitted long-time iPad user and advocate...and yet he comes to the very same conclusion. :shrug:


----------



## FHSPSU67

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Good to hear from your day of hands-on. I bet you're having alot of fun.*You bet!*
> 
> Have you heard anything yet about the 3.1 Android update for the ASUS Transformer yet? [Supposedly it will be available in June some time]* Nothing other than a keyboard/dock update*
> 
> Also - are you going to post any photos or other review information? *If you're just interested in seeing it I can post a few tomorrrow. Glad to answer any ?'s I'm capable of answering - PM me with any*
> 
> Battery life? *Really amazing with or without it being docked - at least 8 hours of casual use on the Eee Pad itself, and probably 14+ with the keyboard attached - there's a separate battery in each*
> 
> You seem to be first on your block, and most of the the online reviews are limited, in terms of functional details.


* Yeah I haven't seen it advertised anywhere - thanks to this forum which led me to check it out.*:hurah:

Another thing I'll mention is that it is the perfect e-reader device for me (out of direct sunlight of course) - great for anything with graphics, diagrams, or graphs. I look forward to having all my operating/service manuals in pdf format on it.


----------



## Chris Blount

Sixto said:


> One person's view ...
> 
> I'll spend a few hundred a year and I'll always have the latest and greatest for hopefully a very long time, otherwise every year I'll be jealous of something new.
> 
> Got 60% for my iPad1, and certainly enjoying the iPad2, and looking forward to whatever the iPad3 brings. Never a second thought, hopefully for a very long time, and hopefully some iOS goodies next month.
> 
> Again, just one person's view, as I'm sure others might rightly need/want to be more financially reserved, which is cool.
> 
> It only took a few minutes to upgrade with a simple backup and restore.


Exactly! When finances allow, it's definitely more fun to have the latest and greatest. I do it with tablets, computers, home theater equipment, you name it and as long as there are buyers for my second gen stuff, I'm good. Usually when I shop, I swipe at least 50% off the price tag and then decide if I can afford it.

Of course, this all depends on whether or not I have a job.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

In addition to *Best Buy*....it looks like *Staples* is getting more into the tablet sales game...

http://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/technology-research-centers/tablets/index.html

If you click on any one of them...there is some good additional detailed features information on a number of different tablets at that site.


----------



## DarkSkies

Well, I found my first undocumented new update in Honeycomb 3.1, and first undocumented bug.

*New update:* Your place in the Android Market is now remembered when you drill down into categories and examine the details of an app. I will use the "Featured Tablet Apps" category to explain. In 3.0, when you selected "Featured Tablet Apps" you'd have upwards of 50 choices. Today it's 60. If you scrolled down to the last row (several pages down) and touched an app in the last row to look at details of that app, and then hit the status bar BACK or the Market "Back" button, you'd be taken to row 1 of the category and would have to scroll all the way down again. Now in 3.1, it picks up right where you left it when you hit either Back button. 

*The bug:* Clicking a web link in an app [strike]click[/strike] like TweetCaster or Pulse News Reader will properly open the browser and show the linked page, but when you touch the Recent App button, the app you used just prior to the Browser is not listed. Ex: Click a link in Pulse, Browser opens, article is presented. Touch Recent Apps, and Pulse is not listed. This worked fine in 3.0, but now in 3.1 you can now no longer toggle between the Browser and the "serving" app.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DarkSkies said:


> Well, I found my first undocumented new update in Honeycomb 3.1, and first undocumented bug.(


Do they provide you with a place/website to report those kinds of things?


----------



## tcusta00

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In addition to *Best Buy*....it looks like *Staples* is getting more into the tablet sales game...
> 
> http://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/technology-research-centers/tablets/index.html
> 
> If you click on any one of them...there is some good additional detailed features information on a number of different tablets at that site.


So you said. Three weeks ago.



hdtvfan0001 said:


> Looks like *Staples* is getting into tablet sales in a big way...more than one platform...including pre-orders for some devices....
> 
> http://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/technology-research-centers/tablets/index.html?cm_mmc=sbd_acq-_-product_042511-_-CONS_DI-_-num&cm_
> 
> That would seem provide folks with a place do some "hands on comparisons"....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> So you said. Three weeks ago.


What are you...stalking my posts or something?

They added 2 more tablets since then, and alot more details as well...thank you.


----------



## DarkSkies

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Do they provide you with a place/website to report those kinds of things?


Believe me, I've been looking! Haven't found it though ...


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DarkSkies said:


> Believe me, I've been looking! Haven't found it though ...


I'll see if I can dig up something for ya...I'm sure they'd appreciate your observation/field information.


----------



## tcusta00

hdtvfan0001 said:


> What are you...stalking my posts or something?


Yes. I have a giant database of all of your posts with a TV wall. A have a TV dedicated to each type of thread you post in, categorized by "apple bashing", "post count congratulating" or "general post padding." This one flashed up on the third one and emitted the red beacon for "blantant." It sent a message to my pager (yep, they still make these, and I have three of them, one for each of the aforementioned categories) and when it vibrated I immediately ran downstairs to the batcave. After I strapped myself into the chair I realized the gravity of the situation and went immediately into post mode. This, for sure, was a level 8 situation.

Or. OORRRR... you could get over yourself and I just happen to remember you mentioning it three weeks ago with the same link.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> Yes. I have a giant database of all of your posts with a TV wall.


I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DarkSkies said:


> *Believe me, I've been looking! Haven't found it though* ...





hdtvfan0001 said:


> I'll see if I can dig up something for ya...I'm sure they'd appreciate your observation/field information.


This is the Google site where v3.0 bugs - and their fixes - have been reported...

I don't see anything (yet) for 3.1...so you might start a thread there if you can on that specific item. :shrug:

I'll keep digging too.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here's an very interesting bit of speculation/rumor on the iPad3:

http://news.cnet.com/rumored-ipad-3-to-get-glasses-free-3d/8301-17938_105-20060013-1.html

There were several glasses-free 3D technologies being shown at CES back in January, so this is not impossible by any stretch. It would certainly be a neat new iPad3 capability if it happens.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I wouldn't be surprised.


Did it occur to you for one second that I happen to have a good memory and I enjoy reading this thread in spite of the linkathon that it's turned in to?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> Did it occur to you for one second that I happen to have a good memory and I enjoy reading this thread in spite of the linkathon that it's turned in to?


Sorry you don't care for information on tablets.

Here's the original post...so contrary to your interruptive comment...its turned into *just what it was requested to be*:


> I know a lot of folks have a lot of interest in what's coming out in tablets and I'd like to open this thread to anything about tablets. The last thread I started kinda centered on the iPad and I'd like to see this one last a while, or as long as the new tablets are released. Any comparisons, any comments, any tablets.


But many, many others are reading. learning, and participating in it too.

As always....participation in this or any other thread is optional.


----------



## Doug Brott

Take it to PM guys. Thanks.

Edited to add: posted from my iPad @ 30,000 ft


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Sorry you don't care for information on tablets.


I love info on tablets. It's why I'm here... For firsthand looks at what works and what doesn't, what's good and what's not and what I should pay attention to and who I shouldn't. I do have engadget, gizmodo and plenty of other tech news feeds giving me info, too. I thought this was a discussion thread though.



> Here's the original post...so contrary to your interruptive comment...its turned into just what it was requested to be:
> 
> But many, many others are reading. learning, and participating in it too.
> 
> As always....participation in this or any other thread is optional.


I'm pretty sure repeating the same thing three weeks later is just as annoying in any thread, regardless of whether said link fits the subject. Don't get so defensive and next time just say "oops, thanks, sorry I totally forgot I posted that link 18 links ago."

Just saying.


----------



## spartanstew

Not sure if THIS has been posted.


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> Not sure if THIS has been posted.


Interesting they're not carrying Apple or Samsung. I guess thin isn't "in" at Staples. 

HP's forthcoming tablet intrigues me, even though it's still vaporware. From what I've read about it so far, Web OS has the technical chops to make this a 3-horse race. But HP's gonna have to come in dirt cheap, IMO, to convince folks to take a chance on a non-iOS/non-android web store. Something like a $299, 16gb wifi-only tablet with an iPad-sized screen. Just my .02.


----------



## Laxguy

Steve said:


> Interesting they're not carrying Apple or Samsung. I guess thin isn't "in" at Staples.


Heh. But I do wonder how significant what Staples carries or doesn't carry is. 
Here in the SF Bay Area, they're pretty far down on the list of places to shop for cutting edge products of any stripe.
(In my view; don't have any stats.)


----------



## Steve

Laxguy said:


> Heh. But I do wonder how significant what Staples carries or doesn't carry is.
> Here in the SF Bay Area, they're pretty far down on the list of places to shop for cutting edge products of any stripe.
> (In my view; don't have any stats.)


Hey, you're talking to a guy who bought his iPad2 at Target! :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> I'm pretty sure repeating the same thing three weeks later is just as annoying in any thread, regardless of whether said link fits the subject.


Apparently you don't read well. It wasn't a repeat...it was updated and added information.

Per Doug - perhaps you can move on now...

:backtotop


----------



## Shades228

Here's an interesting read about what Android has that IOS doesn't. The nice part about this is they go into rooting/jailbreaking. This is sided to Android but really isn't biased because it's just about things you can do with Android you cannot with IOS.

http://lifehacker.com/5801862/top-10-awesome-android-features-that-the-iphone-doesnt-have


----------



## Groundhog45

Doug Brott said:


> Edited to add: posted from my iPad @ 30,000 ft


Show off.


----------



## BubblePuppy

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Apparently you don't read well. It wasn't a repeat...it was updated and added information.
> 
> Per Doug - perhaps you can move on now...
> 
> :backtotop


The recent user reports have been very useful, as have the many links to tech writer reviews. Unfortunately there is the occasional redundant obsessive poster attacks. Not tablet thread relevant. 
hdtvfan0001, thanks for the informative posts.


----------



## tcusta00

"BubblePuppy" said:


> The recent user reports have been very useful, as have the many links to tech writer reviews. Unfortunately there is the occasional redundant obsessive poster attacks. Not tablet thread relevant.
> hdtvfan0001, thanks for the informative posts.


I don't recall an attack. I recall pointing out a redundant post in a non attacking way. Can we stop being so high school drama club about this and move on?


----------



## Chris Blount

The iPad 2 on the keyboard dock. Work great on camping trips. 

Just giving some equal time.


----------



## Chris Blount

Good news for iPad owners who have Netflix. An update was just issued that adds subtitles.

http://www.padgadget.com/2011/05/13/subtitles-now-available-in-netflix-app/


----------



## RobertE

Chris Blount said:


> The iPad 2 on the keyboard dock. Work great on camping trips.
> 
> Just giving some equal time.


You know if you were a Club Member, you wouldn't be wasting screen space with those ads on the side. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Here's an interesting short article on how the new Android Honeycomb tablets can transfer files to and from a Mac:

http://theunlockr.com/2011/05/14/how-to-transfer-files-between-your-android-tablet-and-mac/


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Chris Blount said:


> The iPad 2 on the keyboard dock. Work great on camping trips.
> 
> Just giving some equal time.


That's actually pretty cool. How well do you think it would run stuff in the background...something like BOINC (Link) runing a couple of projects while I'm surfing the web and making a spreadsheet? BOINC can be very processor intensive but you can control just how much of resoruces it uses.

Mike


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> The iPad 2 on the keyboard dock. Work great on camping trips.
> 
> Just giving some equal time.


And for those that may not be aware, Logitech/Zagg offers this innovative iPad keyboard/case combo for $99 MSRP. Plenty of protection for the iPad while on the road... the case is made with aircraft-grade aluminum.


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> And for those that may not be aware, Logitech/Zagg offers this innovative iPad keyboard/case combo for $99 MSRP. Plenty of protection for the iPad while on the road... the case is made with aircraft-grade aluminum.


Thanks for reminding me about those. Very tempting.


----------



## Chris Blount

RobertE said:


> You know if you were a Club Member, you wouldn't be wasting screen space with those ads on the side. :lol:


LOL! Yeah, kind of sucks. The way the software is setup doesn't allow admins to turn ads off.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Adobe Flash 10.3 released across all Android platform versions, including Honeycomb 3.1:

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/05/13/adobe-updates-flash-to-version-10-3-for-android/


----------



## elaclair

Steve said:


> Hey, you're talking to a guy who bought his iPad2 at Target! :lol:


Here in the San Diego area Staples is pretty much at the bottom of the technology food chain...WAY below target and Wal-Mart...sorta in the same arena as CVS pharmacy, just with more cheap furniture....


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Barnes & Noble introduced an updated *free* eBook reader app for their Nook tablet a few weeks ago - now they also have a version that can be used on all other Android tablets.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Update-to-NOOK-app-for-Android-makes-your-tablet-more-like-a-book-reader_id18825

Here's the B&N site download link:

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook-for-android/379002287/


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> In addition to *Best Buy*....it looks like *Staples* is getting more into the tablet sales game...
> 
> http://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/technology-research-centers/tablets/index.html
> 
> If you click on any one of them...there is some good additional detailed features information on a number of different tablets at that site.


That's where I bought the Xoom.

Rich


----------



## Rich

DarkSkies said:


> Well, I found my first undocumented new update in Honeycomb 3.1, and first undocumented bug.
> 
> *New update:* Your place in the Android Market is now remembered when you drill down into categories and examine the details of an app. I will use the "Featured Tablet Apps" category to explain. In 3.0, when you selected "Featured Tablet Apps" you'd have upwards of 50 choices. Today it's 60. If you scrolled down to the last row (several pages down) and touched an app in the last row to look at details of that app, and then hit the status bar BACK or the Market "Back" button, you'd be taken to row 1 of the category and would have to scroll all the way down again. Now in 3.1, it picks up right where you left it when you hit either Back button.


That was something I found very annoying. And time consuming. Nice to see they fixed that.

Rich


----------



## Rich

DarkSkies said:


> Believe me, I've been looking! Haven't found it though ...


I looked too. Seem like the only people you can contact are the apps developers. You'd think they'd want feedback, no?

Rich


----------



## houskamp

Chris Blount said:


> The iPad 2 on the keyboard dock. Work great on camping trips.
> 
> Just giving some equal time.


 wow.. that brings back memories of the CoCo I owned.. crappiest looking/working keyboard I have ever used :lol:
don't they make one that at least matches the color?


----------



## houskamp

Steve said:


> And for those that may not be aware, Logitech/Zagg offers this innovative iPad keyboard/case combo for $99 MSRP. Plenty of protection for the iPad while on the road... the case is made with aircraft-grade aluminum.


 At least that one looks like a nice design..


----------



## Rich

Laxguy said:


> Heh. But I do wonder how significant what Staples carries or doesn't carry is.
> Here in the SF Bay Area, they're pretty far down on the list of places to shop for cutting edge products of any stripe.
> (In my view; don't have any stats.)


Not only that, but the folks at Staples are kind of annoying. I did post quite a while ago about my experience buying the Xoom at Staples. I got double teamed, then triple teamed by Staples' employees implying how foolish it was not to buy an extended warranty on the Xoom. For a third of the price. I usually hand back whatever I'm trying to buy when that happens. But I wanted the Xoom and I put up with it knowing full well that I was gonna return it, even if I wanted one, because they did that to me. It was obviously a rehearsed dialog. Too many places selling them to put up with that crap.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Hey, you're talking to a guy who bought his iPad2 at Target! :lol:


I did too. Did they tell you you had 90 days to return it? I asked the manager about it and he agreed with the three salespeople who told me originally. On the top of the receipt there is an expiration date that tells you how much time you have to return it. Still find it hard to believe.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> I did too. Did they tell you you had 90 days to return it? I asked the manager about it and he agreed with the three salespeople who told me originally. On the top of the receipt there is an expiration date that tells you how much time you have to return it. Still find it hard to believe.


I suspect you are now the resident expert at return policies. 

One benefit of your approach was to gain the actual hands-on "tryouts" of various devices - a good thing. Since many of the newer devices are not readily available in stores...there are some limits to gaining a good feel for what's right for each person - taste's will vary.

I know ASUS reported they'll have 350,000 more units in stores over a 60-day window, and hopefully other manufacturers step up their deliveries...so that people can get direct viewings and trial use of tablets.

Obviously you can go to an Apple store for the iPads...but many of the other devices are still sporadically hitting the shelves - that should change soon.


----------



## Rich

houskamp said:


> At least that one looks like a nice design..


I'm waiting for an illuminated keyboard. I don't need a case and the way that keyboard is sunk into the case looks like it might be a hindrance to typing. But if it was level with the case there would be no room for the iPad. I kinda like the Blue Tooth keyboards, but I don't think they are illuminated.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I did too. Did they tell you you had 90 days to return it? I asked the manager about it and he agreed with the three salespeople who told me originally. On the top of the receipt there is an expiration date that tells you how much time you have to return it. Still find it hard to believe.


I never even checked what the store policy is. No matter, tho, 'cause this one's not going back.


----------



## TBlazer07

rich584 said:


> I did too. Did they tell you you had 90 days to return it? I asked the manager about it and he agreed with the three salespeople who told me originally. On the top of the receipt there is an expiration date that tells you how much time you have to return it. Still find it hard to believe.
> 
> Rich


Targe' used to charge a restocking fee on opened electronics (it was posted on their "return policy sign"). Did they stop doing that? If so I may take a ride over there and see what they have. Too bad Costco isn't heavily into Tablets other than at the cell phone kiosk which is not even theirs.


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> I'm waiting for an illuminated keyboard. I don't need a case and the way that keyboard is sunk into the case looks like it might be a hindrance to typing. But if it was level with the case there would be no room for the iPad. I kinda like the Blue Tooth keyboards, but I don't think they are illuminated.
> 
> Rich


I think the keyboard is illuminated.


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I suspect you are now the resident expert at return policies.


I was shocked. I expected them to say 14 days. I never expected them to give me 90 days to play with it. I still kinda doubt that it's true.



> One benefit of your approach was to gain the actual hands-on "tryouts" of various devices - a good thing. Since many of the newer devices are not readily available in stores...there are some limits to gaining a good feel for what's right for each person - taste's will vary.


Actually, I'm pretty sure I started too soon. The Xoom wasn't ready when I bought it. Look at all the changes they've made to it already. If I bought one today, I'd probably keep it.



> Obviously you can go to an Apple store for the iPads...but many of the other devices are still sporadically hitting the shelves - that should change soon.


Even when I went to the Apple store I didn't know enough to make an educated choice. Or I wouldn't have bought the iPad1. I really should have waited a couple months.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I never even checked what the store policy is. No matter, tho, 'cause this one's not going back.


Mine isn't going back either. My wife has made that quite clear. I'd still like to try and take it back in a month or so and see what happens. Every other store has a 14 day return policy. The guy that was in charge of the electronics department told me that they wanted nothing but satisfied customers. I gotta admit I had a better opinion of Target when I walked out of the store that day.

Rich


----------



## Rich

TBlazer07 said:


> Targe' used to charge a restocking fee on opened electronics (it was posted on their "return policy sign"). Did they stop doing that? If so I may take a ride over there and see what they have. Too bad Costco isn't heavily into Tablets other than at the cell phone kiosk which is not even theirs.


I didn't ask about the restocking fees, I was too bewildered when they said 90 days.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure I started too soon. The Xoom wasn't ready when I bought it. Look at all the changes they've made to it already. If I bought one today, I'd probably keep it.
> 
> Even when I went to the Apple store I didn't know enough to make an educated choice. Or I wouldn't have bought the iPad1. I really should have waited a couple months.


Thanks for your insights - you have alot of experience in the evaluation process (now anyway ). Since you have done alot of homework to date, and also tried a number of devices....I suspect good lessons learned are:

Do plenty of research
Then try
Then buy


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> I think the keyboard is illuminated.


Which keyboard, the one in that case or the Blue Tooth? Since I bought an illuminated keyboard for my desktop I have a hard time with the ones that don't light up. Just gave away a couple Logitech wireless keyboards for that reason.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Thanks for your insights - you have alot of experience in the evaluation process (now anyway ). Since you have done alot of homework to date, and also tried a number of devices....I suspect good lessons learned are:
> 
> Do plenty of research
> Then try
> Then buy


Yup, kinda like buying a car. That usually takes me a month or two. There really wasn't much research to go by when I got the Xoom.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I didn't ask about the restocking fees, I was too bewildered when they said 90 days.


From Target.com:

_"Restocking Fees: Some items are subject to a 15% restocking fee, including camcorders, digital cameras, portable DVD players and portable electronics."_

Makes sense, otherwise people would be constantly buying things like a GPS or camera for occasional or one-time use and then returning it.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> From Target.com:
> 
> _"Restocking Fees: Some items are subject to a 15% restocking fee, including camcorders, digital cameras, portable DVD players and portable electronics."_
> 
> Makes sense, otherwise people would be constantly buying things like a GPS or camera for occasional or one-time use and then returning it.


Just called them up. 90 days on the tablets, no restocking fees. How's that for amazing? They just went up another notch.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Just called them up. 90 days on the tablets, no restocking fees. How's that for amazing? They just went up another notch.


They'll have to fix their web site then, because no way is a tablet not "portable electronics".


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> They'll have to fix their web site then, because no way is a tablet not "portable electronics".


Again, I'm surprised. I had no idea they were that liberal in their return policy.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

"DarkSkies" said:


> Well, I found my first undocumented new update in Honeycomb 3.1, and first undocumented bug.
> 
> The bug: Clicking a web link in an app click like TweetCaster or Pulse News Reader will properly open the browser and show the linked page, but when you touch the Recent App button, the app you used just prior to the Browser is not listed. Ex: Click a link in Pulse, Browser opens, article is presented. Touch Recent Apps, and Pulse is not listed. This worked fine in 3.0, but now in 3.1 you can now no longer toggle between the Browser and the "serving" app.


I'm not seeing the same problem, for instance I've clicked on several links in this thread and have come right back to the DBSTalk app each time by using the recent button. I don't use Pulse or tweetcaster so I can't test those. This posted from my Xoom I manually upgraded to 3.1.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> They'll have to fix their web site then, because no way is a tablet not "portable electronics".


Do you know how to check the iPad to see how full it is? On the Androids it's easy to do, but I don't see how to do it on the iPad.

Rich


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> Do you know how to check the iPad to see how full it is? On the Androids it's easy to do, but I don't see how to do it on the iPad.
> 
> Rich


Settings --> General --> About


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Settings --> General --> About


Yup. iTunes shows you as well.

If you want more nerdy stats about what's going inside your iOS device, there's an app called System Status that's pretty good, IMO.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Yup, kinda like buying a car. That usually takes me a month or two. There really wasn't much research to go by when I got the Xoom.


Very true....the last month or so, and this point on will provide more information on various Android tablets/choice than all the time before put together. Android 3.1 and later Ice Cream Sandwich are driving that timeline.

The good news is that the information is growing quickly now - and even iPad3 information is starting to surface, so everyone can make the best decision that fits their needs.


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> Settings --> General --> About


Where are the settings?

Rich


----------



## tcusta00

rich584 said:


> Where are the settings?
> 
> Rich


It's a built-in app... gray and black looking button with gears on it.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Yup. iTunes shows you as well.
> 
> If you want more nerdy stats about what's going inside your iOS device, there's an app called System Status that's pretty good, IMO.


I think I'll try that app. I haven't noticed a "Settings" button. I guess I just missed it. :nono2:

I do like to see what's going on inside. That was always an issue I had with Macs.

Rich


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> It's a built-in app... gray and black looking button with gears on it.


Oh nuts! Now I remember. Haven't got the pad with me, the wife's got it again. She's been at it all weekend. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Oh nuts! Now I remember. Haven't got the pad with me, the wife's got it again. She's been at it all weekend. Thanx.


That jives with the reason a couple of guys behind me in line at Target were buying a _second _iPad for the home. After hearing how often both spouses wanted to use it at the same time, it made me feel even better about buying our first one.

We're starting to have that issue here as well.  It's technically my wife's, but I find myself grabbing for it more and more often.


----------



## dpeters11

"rich584" said:


> Where are the settings?
> 
> Rich


It's the gear icon, by default on the first page. It's the same one you go into go setup wifi and email.

Never mind, didn't notice I wasn't on the last page.


----------



## bobukcat

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Do they provide you with a place/website to report those kinds of things?


Android bugs and desired features can be reported here: http://source.android.com/source/report-bugs.html


----------



## DarkSkies

DarkSkies said:


> Well, I found my first undocumented new update in Honeycomb 3.1, and first undocumented bug.
> 
> [...]
> 
> *The bug:* Clicking a web link in an app [strike]click[/strike] like TweetCaster or Pulse News Reader will properly open the browser and show the linked page, but when you touch the Recent App button, the app you used just prior to the Browser is not listed. Ex: Click a link in Pulse, Browser opens, article is presented. Touch Recent Apps, and Pulse is not listed. This worked fine in 3.0, but now in 3.1 you can now no longer toggle between the Browser and the "serving" app.





bobukcat said:


> I'm not seeing the same problem, for instance I've clicked on several links in this thread and have come right back to the DBSTalk app each time by using the recent button. I don't use Pulse or tweetcaster so I can't test those. This posted from my Xoom I manually upgraded to 3.1.


I finally figured out a workaround for the issue, and realized my initial bug report omitted a crucial piece of info: I have multiple browsers installed, with none set as default. When I clicked a link in Pulse or TweetCaster I was presented a choice of the stock browser, Firefox, Opera Mini and Opera Mobile. I'd pick one, and it didn't matter which one I chose, but once I got into that browser and looked at the Recent Apps list, I'd see that the "serving" app would not be listed.

Today I finally got tired of choosing a browser when I click a link so I set the stock browser as the default. Now when I open a link in any app the stock browser opens and the "serving" app is properly displayed in the recent apps list.

So ... my bad on the bug report. If you only had one browser, or had multiple but had selected a default browser, you wouldn't be able to replicate this bug. I do still consider it a bug, but now just wish I could figure out how to report it!


----------



## hdtvfan0001

DarkSkies said:


> I finally figured out a workaround for the issue, and realized my initial bug report omitted a crucial piece of info: I have multiple browsers installed, with none set as default. When I clicked a link in Pulse or TweetCaster I was presented a choice of the stock browser, Firefox, Opera Mini and Opera Mobile. I'd pick one, and it didn't matter which one I chose, but once I got into that browser and looked at the Recent Apps list, I'd see that the "serving" app would not be listed.
> 
> Today I finally got tired of choosing a browser when I click a link so I set the stock browser as the default. Now when I open a link in any app the stock browser opens and the "serving" app is properly displayed in the recent apps list.
> 
> So ... my bad on the bug report. If you only had one browser, or had multiple but had selected a default browser, you wouldn't be able to replicate this bug. I do still consider it a bug, but now just wish I could figure out how to report it!


Thanks for that added information. It would be good for them to add that to the product documentation as a setup requirement.


----------



## Rich

"Steve" said:


> That jives with the reason a couple of guys behind me in line at Target were buying a second iPad for the home. After hearing how often both spouses wanted to use it at the same time, it made me feel even better about buying our first one.
> 
> We're starting to have that issue here as well.  It's technically my wife's, but I find myself grabbing for it more and more often.


The wife already has plans for it. She wants to take it to work and have her IT department set up her encrypted email account so she can use it "when she works at home". From there it will then end up going to work with her. I might as well just buy her one.

Rich

Sent from my iPad2 using DBSTalk


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> The wife already has plans for it. She wants to take it to work and have her IT department set up her encrypted email account so she can use it "when she works at home".


My sister works for a major bank and has been using an iPad 1 that way since last summer. I forget the name of the VPN app they're using.

It may be this one, though I thought the icon was red, not blue.

This one looks pretty good too.


----------



## spartanstew

For those that want to dip their toe in the water, today on Woot:


Velocity Micro Cruz 7” Android Tablet

$79.99

woot.com


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> For those that want to dip their toe in the water, today on Woot:
> 
> Velocity Micro Cruz 7" Android Tablet
> 
> $79.99
> 
> woot.com


I just checked the user guide, and you can expand it up to 32gb, so at minimum, it's an awesome media player at that price! Great deal... this one's gonna sell out quickly, IMHO.


----------



## DarkSkies

Steve said:


> I just checked the user guide, and you can expand it up to 32gb, so at minimum, it's an awesome media player at that price! Great deal... this one's gonna sell out quickly, IMHO.


Of note, this tablet doesn't have the official Android Market, so apps have to be side-loaded. Not a big deal, but thought I'd mention it.


----------



## DarkSkies

Steve said:


> Good point. That said, with wi-fi, a built-in browser, a/v player and e-book reader, it's pretty darned useful even without loading any apps, IMHO. Where else can you get all that functionality for $79 with a screen that size and 10 hours of battery?


Agreed. I have one on order to give as a gift for photo viewing and reading. With my own Android smartphone I'll be able to get the APKs I can't find in the Amazon App Store, which is pretty well stocked, but for all I know so is the Micro Cruz app store. This won't stop me from tricking out the tablet and my supporting my gift recipient. 

BTW: Final price is $92.32 if you live in NY (shipping plus tax). Still a good deal!


----------



## Steve

Hmmm. There's some mention of choppy video playback here and here. That would be a show-stopper for me.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Steve said:


> Hmmm. There's some mention of choppy video playback here. That would be a show-stopper for me.


The cheapy tablets have limited capabilities and marginal performance once they get outside their base installed features.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> My sister works for a major bank and has been using an iPad 1 that way since last summer. I forget the name of the VPN app they're using.
> 
> It may be this one, though I thought the icon was red, not blue.
> 
> This one looks pretty good too.


I don't know how they do their email, I just know it's proprietary and encrypted. She has it on her iPhone too.

Rich


----------



## Rich

spartanstew said:


> For those that want to dip their toe in the water, today on Woot:
> 
> Velocity Micro Cruz 7" Android Tablet
> 
> $79.99
> 
> woot.com


I just saw that too. I've tried a couple of the cheap ones and they are pretty poor.

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> The cheapy tablets have limited capabilities and marginal performance once they get outside their base installed features.


A lot of the cheap ones have resistive screens. The ones I played with briefly were terrible.

Rich


----------



## DarkSkies

Well, now I'm trying to cancel my Woot order for the Velocity Micro Cruz 7-inch "Tablet". 

I jumped the gun on it without really researching - and I'm really not an impulse buyer!

This is actually the R101, so it's a Reader, not a tablet. It's also a resistive touchscreen, so better response is achieved with a stylus than a finger. I can't in good conscience give this as a gift.

Hopefully Woot honors my email request to cancel the order, otherwise I'll be looking for RMA as soon as I receive it...


----------



## Steve

DarkSkies said:


> Well, now I'm trying to cancel my Woot order for the Velocity Micro Cruz 7-inch "Tablet".
> 
> I jumped the gun on it without really researching - and I'm really not an impulse buyer!
> 
> This is actually the R101, so it's a Reader, not a tablet. It's also a resistive touchscreen, so better response is achieved with a stylus than a finger. I can't in good conscience give this as a gift.
> 
> Hopefully Woot honors my email request to cancel the order, otherwise I'll be looking for RMA as soon as I receive it...


Ya. I was a click away from ordering it myself, just to use as a media player. If the video's choppy tho...


----------



## spartanstew

DarkSkies said:


> Well, now I'm trying to cancel my Woot order for the Velocity Micro Cruz 7-inch "Tablet".
> 
> I jumped the gun on it without really researching - and I'm really not an impulse buyer!
> 
> This is actually the R101, so it's a Reader, not a tablet. It's also a resistive touchscreen, so better response is achieved with a stylus than a finger. I can't in good conscience give this as a gift.
> 
> Hopefully Woot honors my email request to cancel the order, otherwise I'll be looking for RMA as soon as I receive it...


Sorry.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Some pix of my ASUS Transformer:
Pix 2 and 3 are out of order - should be reversed.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

FHSPSU67 said:


> Some pix of my ASUS Transformer:
> Pix 2 and 3 are out of order - should be reversed.


Super photos - thank you for sharing. :up:

Especially like the one with the tablet and keyboard together...showing the browser on DBSTalk. 

I'd assume you were pretty much "consumed with it" all weekend...playing with the newest tech device in the house.


----------



## raott

Great pics Fred, thanks.

Out of curiosity, how many Apps are currently in the Honeycomb marketplace. There were 59 when I had the xoom a few weeks ago.


----------



## spartanstew

Nice photos.

What's your impression of the stability of the keyboard/dock/pad?

Is it pretty secure? Could you envision someone using it like a laptop the majority of the time (opening, closing, tossing in a briefcase, etc.)?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

raott said:


> Great pics Fred, thanks.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how many Apps are currently in the Honeycomb marketplace. There were 59 when I had the xoom a few weeks ago.


There are 188 listed vor Android 3.0 tablets there as of now...changes daily...many new free ones as well as apps for a fee.

Once Android goes to Ice Cream Sandwich in 4Q, then the tablets will run virtual any app created in Android 3.0 or newer - thousands of those.


----------



## FHSPSU67

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Super photos - thank you for sharing. :up:
> 
> Especially like the one with the tablet and keyboard together...showing the browser on DBSTalk.
> 
> I'd assume you were pretty much "consumed with it" all weekend...playing with the newest tech device in the house.


YES



raott said:


> Great pics Fred, thanks.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how many Apps are currently in the Honeycomb marketplace. There were 59 when I had the xoom a few weeks ago.


I'm showing 27 categories with at least 8 apps each, most cats show 16.



spartanstew said:


> Nice photos.
> 
> What's your impression of the stability of the keyboard/dock/pad?
> 
> Is it pretty secure? Could you envision someone using it like a laptop the majority of the time (opening, closing, tossing in a briefcase, etc.)?


Dock and tablet lock together very securely. I don't even have a sleeve or case, and I carry it with me (mostly bars for checking out beer selections on-line)

Posted from my Asus xfmr


----------



## trdrjeff

RIMM launch debacle continues...

Research In Motion recalls about 1,000 BlackBerry PlayBooks


----------



## Rich

trdrjeff said:


> RIMM launch debacle continues...
> 
> Research In Motion recalls about 1,000 BlackBerry PlayBooks


Makes you want to run out and get one, doesn't it?

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Makes you want to run out and get one, doesn't it?
> 
> Rich


Supposedly about 80% of the recalled units never hit shelves and got returned by retailers....so.... :shrug:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

One of the features found on many tablets (regardless of platform) is a built-in camera - at least one. Some devices have a front and back camera.

In any case...I've seen surveys before indicating there was not a great deal of "demand" for this feature....always wondered how many people might use a tablet for digital photos.

Today, I came across an interesting piece on this topic:

http://hothardware.com/News/The-iPad-2s-Rear-Camera-Mostly-Going-Unused-Report/


----------



## FHSPSU67

dreshelman said:


> WiredDFW has released android remote for direct receivers and is days away from the tablet version. Available in the android market.


Great news! Thanks for posting this, I'll be on the lookout
Posted from my ASUS Xfmr


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> One of the features found on many tablets (regardless of platform) is a built-in camera - at least one. Some devices have a front and back camera.
> 
> In any case...I've seen surveys before indicating there was not a great deal of "demand" for this feature....always wondered how many people might use a tablet for digital photos.
> 
> Today, I came across an interesting piece on this topic:
> 
> http://hothardware.com/News/The-iPad-2s-Rear-Camera-Mostly-Going-Unused-Report/


I don't get the camera thing. The front facing one I can understand having. But using a tablet that large to take pictures? Yet, I think every tablet has the two camera format.

Rich


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> Great news! Thanks for posting this, I'll be on the lookout
> Posted from my ASUS Xfmr


How comfortable is typing on your new toy? I don't like typing on my wife's IdeaPad, she's got one of the small, but very powerful, laptops. And small hands. It's light, easy to carry when traveling, but the keyboard is so small, I just can't feel comfy using it.

I can't type normally on the onscreen keyboards of any of the tablets I've tried. I find myself "hunting and pecking".

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Supposedly about 80% of the recalled units never hit shelves and got returned by retailers....so.... :shrug:


From what I've read it would seem that they rushed the tablet. I'm sure that's the case with a lot of tablet makers.

Rich


----------



## FHSPSU67

rich584 said:


> How comfortable is typing on your new toy? I don't like typing on my wife's IdeaPad, she's got one of the small, but very powerful, laptops. And small hands. It's light, easy to carry when traveling, but the keyboard is so small, I just can't feel comfy using it.
> 
> I can't type normally on the onscreen keyboards of any of the tablets I've tried. I find myself "hunting and pecking".
> 
> Rich


I assume you're referring to the on-screen keyboard and I do the same - hunt and peck. Quite easy to touch-type on the "real" attached keyboard.

Posted from my ASUS Xfmr


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> From what I've read it would seem that they rushed the tablet. I'm sure that's the case with a lot of tablet makers.
> 
> Rich


Perhaps...the problem was reportedly related to the version of the firmware installed on the recalled units.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I don't get the camera thing. The front facing one I can understand having. But using a tablet that large to take pictures? Yet, I think every tablet has the two camera format.


I use the rear camera on the iPad all the time. When it's in my hands and I want to take a quick picture of something, it's easier than reaching for my regular camera.

Also when face-timing, when I want to show the person I'm speaking to the faces of other people near me, or some object we're talking about, I hit the "spin" button and the camera switches to the back camera while the conversation is still in progress. Very handy.

We used face-time a lot this weekend. Had my grand daughter here for a couple of days while her parents were out of town for a wedding, and she was able to see them via my son's iPhone. We also face-timed 2-3x with my daughter and grandson at their house. My wife kept saying "It's like the Jetsons!" :lol:


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> I assume you're referring to the on-screen keyboard and I do the same - hunt and peck. Quite easy to touch-type on the "real" attached keyboard.
> 
> Posted from my ASUS Xfmr


Yeah, I meant the onscreen keyboard. Glad you're enjoying the ASUS.

Rich


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

From CNET:

Nvidia CEO: Why Android tablets aren't selling

Link - http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20062940-64.html?ttag=fbw

Some interesting points in there.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I use the rear camera on the iPad all the time. When it's in my hands and I want to take a quick picture of something, it's easier than reaching for my regular camera.
> 
> Also when face-timing, when I want to show the person I'm speaking to the faces of other people near me, or some object we're talking about, I hit the "spin" button and the camera switches to the back camera while the conversation is still in progress. Very handy.
> 
> We used face-time a lot this weekend. Had my grand daughter here for a couple of days while her parents were out of town for a wedding, and she was able to see them via my son's iPhone. We also face-timed 2-3x with my daughter and grandson at their house. My wife kept saying "It's like the Jetsons!" :lol:


Huh. Haven't tried that. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*Toshiba Delay?*

The highly-anticipated Toshiba Android Honeycomb tablet (the only tablet device announced to date with a removable/user-replaceable battery) apparently is being delayed about 60 days.

Originally, it was supposed to be on shelves late in June...now it looks like it probably will be August.

http://www.htlounge.net/art/15567/android-3-0-tablet-of-toshiba-to-be-delayed-to-summer.html


----------



## Rich

Greg Alsobrook said:


> From CNET:
> 
> Nvidia CEO: Why Android tablets aren't selling
> 
> Link - http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20062940-64.html?ttag=fbw
> 
> Some interesting points in there.


That didn't sound that negative. Sounded like the guy was being truthful, which is refreshing. I do think there is a great future for the Android tablets. If my Xoom would have had more (a lot more) apps, I do believe I'd still have it. At this moment in time, it hardly seems fair to compare the Android tablets with the iPad2. Six months from now...

Rich


----------



## Rich

hdtvfan0001 said:


> *Toshiba Delay?*
> 
> The highly-anticipated Toshiba Android Honeycomb tablet (the only tablet device announced to date with a removable/user-replaceable battery) apparently is being delayed about 60 days.
> 
> Originally, it was supposed to be on shelves late in June...now it looks like it probably will be August.
> 
> http://www.htlounge.net/art/15567/android-3-0-tablet-of-toshiba-to-be-delayed-to-summer.html


Aww. I was waiting for that.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> That didn't sound that negative. Sounded like the guy was being truthful, which is refreshing. I do think there is a great future for the Android tablets. If my Xoom would have had more (a lot more) apps, I do believe I'd still have it. At this moment in time, it hardly seems fair to compare the Android tablets with the iPad2. Six months from now...
> 
> Rich


Agree.

It's about timing and marketing so far...both of which are still very, very new in the Android world based on devices either new on the shelves or not yet there quite yet - but like you said - alot of very positive things on the horizon.


----------



## Chris Blount

Honestly no matter what happens, Android tablets are going to be a tough sell. Apple was there first with a slick design and simple interface.

Look at it this way, when you think of music on-the-go, what is usually the first thing out of your mouth..... iPod.

Not trying to be a fanboy, just a realist.


----------



## spartanstew

And the first thing you think of when you mention a DVR, is TiVo.

How are they doing now?


----------



## tcusta00

I suspect things will get interesting in the tablet world with the launch of ipad3 and more mature android devices.


----------



## tcusta00

"Chris Blount" said:


> Honestly no matter what happens, Android tablets are going to be a tough sell. Apple was there first with a slick design and simple interface.
> 
> Look at it this way, when you think of music on-the-go, what is usually the first thing out of your mouth..... iPod.
> 
> Not trying to be a fanboy, just a realist.


Interesting.


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> I use the rear camera on the iPad all the time. When it's in my hands and I want to take a quick picture of something, it's easier than reaching for my regular camera.
> 
> Also when face-timing, when I want to show the person I'm speaking to the faces of other people near me, or some object we're talking about, I hit the "spin" button and the camera switches to the back camera while the conversation is still in progress. Very handy.
> 
> We used face-time a lot this weekend. Had my grand daughter here for a couple of days while her parents were out of town for a wedding, and she was able to see them via my son's iPhone. We also face-timed 2-3x with my daughter and grandson at their house. My wife kept saying "It's like the Jetsons!" :lol:


Yeah, that's pretty much it. The rear facing camera is great when doing facetime. The other day I was talking with my Dad over Facetime and he was showing me some remodeling he did on his kitchen. A simple flip of the camera did the trick.


----------



## DarkSkies

Steve said:


> Ya. I was a click away from ordering it myself, just to use as a media player. If the video's choppy tho...





spartanstew said:


> Sorry.


:lol: No, it's my own damn fault for failing to do due diligence while worrying the stock might run out and I'd miss out on a "steal of a deal".

Good news is Woot canceled my order per my email to their service team, so no harm no foul.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Honestly no matter what happens, Android tablets are going to be a tough sell. Apple was there first with a slick design and simple interface.
> 
> Look at it this way, when you think of music on-the-go, what is usually the first thing out of your mouth..... iPod.
> 
> Not trying to be a fanboy, just a realist.


Then again...they said the very same thing about the Android phones...now iPhones are the tougher sell. Just sayin...


----------



## DarkSkies

FHSPSU67 said:


> Some pix of my ASUS Transformer:
> Pix 2 and 3 are out of order - should be reversed.


Very nice! I'm actually jealous of your bezel ... :lol:

One of the touted attributes of the Xoom is its thin bezel, but I find it's actually too thin and I occasionally can't hold it without interfering with screen navigation as my big mitts spill over into the display area. What's the slogan? Wider is better? :lol:


----------



## DarkSkies

FHSPSU67 said:


> Great news! Thanks for posting this, I'll be on the lookout
> Posted from my ASUS Xfmr


The WiredDFW is $4.99, or you can get the Lite version for $0.99, but I think I'll wait for the DIRECTV App for Android Tablets version to be released.


----------



## FHSPSU67

DarkSkies said:


> Very nice! I'm actually jealous of your bezel ... :lol:
> 
> One of the touted attributes of the Xoom is its thin bezel, but I find it's actually too thin and I occasionally can't hold it without interfering with screen navigation as my big mitts spill over into the display area. What's the slogan? Wider is better? :lol:


Thanks! Ihe bezel is plenty wide enough for thumbs. I remember that "wider is better ad
Uh oh, I think it was Pontiac.


----------



## bobukcat

Chris Blount said:


> Honestly no matter what happens, Android tablets are going to be a tough sell. Apple was there first with a slick design and simple interface.
> 
> Look at it this way, when you think of music on-the-go, what is usually the first thing out of your mouth..... iPod.
> 
> Not trying to be a fanboy, just a realist.


I'm not trying to start a one vs the other debate but I think a lot of people thought the same thing about the smartphone market. We can argue that the iPhone wasn't the first smartphone (or even the first touch-centric one) or that the iPod wasn't really the first portable MP3 player but that doesn't really matter for the purposes of my argument. Before the "Original" Motorola Droid launched in November of '09 Android's market share was negligible, less than two years later (and with dozens of other mid and high-end Android smartphones being released along the way) and Android's WW market share has eclipsed not just Apple's but it's sitting in the very top spot. That is a ridiculous rise very seldom seen.

In the tablet space the first "real" iPad competitor (the Xoom, for argument's sake I'm going to count the Tab as it only ran 2.2) has been out for about two months, WAY too early to be assuming that as the OS improves and more and more quality competitors are released that it won't at least put a serious dent in the tablet space if not dominate it.

I could be wrong but I don't think we'll see ii have the same rocket ride in market share it did in the smartphone space for a few reasons but to contrast it further with the smartphone market:

Smartphones in general are growing at a remarkable clip as prices come down and it's considered to the defacto standard for teenagers, etc. In other words it's not just for the business person or high-end consumer any more. Tablets are still much more of a niche product and although they are growing rapidly I think it's more as a "toy" than a replacement for a PC / MAC / Laptop, etc. I know I wouldn't have my Xoom if I wasn't just spoiled and got a good discount on it. I love it but could easily live without it, and both of those (not the discount part) are true of my wife and her iPad, whereas we both pretty much have to have smartphones (and did before my Droid and her iPhone) for work.

That article made a good point, the Xoom was / is expensive with no lower memory wi-fi only version to bring in the lower-end tablet consumer. That is starting to change with different models hitting the street at lower price points. It will be very interesting to see what market share is like in 18 months (about the amount of time that's elapsed since the Droid launched).


----------



## klang

I'm not sure how valid the smart phone comparison is. For a long time iPhones were only available through AT&T. Some folks hate Apple and some folks hate AT&T. Android was the only real alternative. iPads don't have to tie in to a cell carrier. Not sure how many of the WiFi only models they are selling vs. the AT&T and Verizon. It appears, so far, Apple is still selling them as fast as they can make them.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...they said the very same thing about the Android phones...now iPhones are the tougher sell. Just sayin...


Tougher sell??? I doubt that.


----------



## raott

Chris Blount said:


> Tougher sell??? I doubt that.


Losing share, that is for sure.


----------



## tcusta00

"Chris Blount" said:


> Tougher sell??? I doubt that.


I guess it's subjective when it's rhetorical.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sorry doubters...but here are the facts....when it comes to smartphones...Android Popularity Grows, While iOS and BlackBerry Dwindle.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/android-popularity-growing/

Maybe now we can get back on topic to tablets.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

*On the topic of tablets*...some industry experts see things perhaps following the same pattern as what happened with smartphones:

http://www.androidtabletblog.com/android-tablet-sales-to-equal-the-ipad%E2%80%99s-figures-in-second-half-of-2011/


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sorry doubters...but here are the facts....when it comes to smartphones...Android Popularity Grows, While iOS and BlackBerry Dwindle.
> 
> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/android-popularity-growing/
> 
> Maybe now we can get back on topic to tablets.


That still doesn't make them a tough sell which was your point. Apple iPhones are limited in availability which is one of Apple's biggest problems. Android phones are made by more than one manufacturer.


----------



## Steve

You're right, Chris. They're only selling them as fast as they can make them. Apple shipped 18.7 million iPhones in the first quarter of 2011, which is the *third consecutive quarter of record iPhone sales*.

They've also doubled their iOS market share in the last 10 months. It was third highest at *2.24%* in April, vs. sixth highest *.66%* for Android. Windows is #1 at 88.9%, Mac OS is second at 5.4%. _*[more]*_


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> *That still doesn't make them a tough sell which was your point.* Apple iPhones are limited in availability which is one of Apple's biggest problems. Android phones are made by more than one manufacturer.


Actually it does, since the iPhone sales now have a pattern of a number of months of shrinking marketshare, while in contrast Android phones are selling like hotcakes (and own market share for almost as long). That makes the iPhone a tougher sell *in comparison*. The real point is that being first doesn't assure long term success.

The iPad2 is a very nice piece of technology, and nobody does marketing better than Apple. It does many, many things well. But it is not perfect, nor complete in terms of what tablets have the potential to do...if that were not true, there would never be an iPad3.

That opens up the door to competition, just like what happened in the smartphone world. Today, iPad is king of the tablet world - no question.

We'll see how that holds up over the next 6-12 months.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sorry doubters...but here are the facts....when it comes to smartphones...Android Popularity Grows, While iOS and BlackBerry Dwindle.
> 
> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/android-popularity-growing/
> 
> Maybe now we can get back on topic to tablets.


IIRC, iOS's 27% is actually a bit up over where if finished Q4 2010 and Android's gains over the last year plus were nearly lock-step with RIM's drops.

If we consider the increase in the total number of smartphones out there would seem to indicate that while the iPhones percentages have only marginally increased the actual numbers of phones sold have risen.

AAMOF, Apple has sold a record number of iPhones in Q1 2011 (Link).

It would seem there is more to numbers than meets the eye...I'm just sayin' :grin:

Mike


----------



## tcusta00

Exactly. Apple bashing rhetoric for the sake of... What? 

More of the same.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> Exactly. Apple bashing rhetoric for the sake of... What?
> 
> More of the same.


Funny how when the *facts show things contrary to your views*...its called Apple-bashing.


Mike Bertelson said:


> IIRC, iOS's 27% *is actually a bit up* over where if finished Q4 2010 and Android's gains over the last year plus were nearly lock-step with RIM's drops.


Most folks attribute that to a short term blip caused by the pent up demand for the Verizon version.

Yes, certainly a large number of iPhones are still being sold....but they are losing market share for some time now.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

tcusta00 said:


> Exactly. Apple bashing rhetoric for the sake of... What?
> 
> More of the same.


The media likes percentages because they're easy to understand. However, without knowing what the numbers are that the fractions come from, they really don't mean much.

I'm not a big fan of stats that don't tell the whole picture.

Mike


----------



## Steve

Android's *U.S.* smartphone marketshare actually dropped in Q1:

_"While Android is still the most widely used OS on smartphones in the U.S., its market share fell in the first quarter to 50%, from 53% in the previous quarter, the NPD Group said.

*The decline is Android's first since the second quarter of 2009.* Apple's iOS gained market share, jumping to 28% from 19% the previous quarter, while Research In Motion's BlackBerry OS fell to 14% from 19% a quarter earlier, the research firm said." [more]_


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Funny how when the facts show things contrary to your views...its called Apple-bashing.
> 
> Most folks attribute that to a short term blip caused by the pent up demand for the Verizon version.


Facts? !rolling

Even when presented with facts that prove your facts rhetorical and baseless you don't give up!

You bash. Yup.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

tcusta00 said:


> Facts? !rolling
> 
> Even when presented with facts that prove your facts rhetorical and baseless you don't give up!
> 
> You bash. Yup.


I post stats, links, facts presented in various publications and studies. I post information on new products, new trends, and new technology.

In contrast, your only contribution in this entire thread seems to be direct sarcasm and no facts of any substance whatsoever. Anything less than proclaiming Apple a deity is called bashing by you. How sad.

So much for helping your fellow DBSTalkers here.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I post links


We know.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Funny how when the *facts show things contrary to your views*...its called Apple-bashing.
> 
> Most folks attribute that to a short term blip caused by the pent up demand for the Verizon version.


Or, taking into consideration the total number of smartphone sales over the last year, and taking into account that the record number of iPhones sold last quarter Q1 2011 sales are more than double that of Q4 2010 seems to indicate more than a blip.

Personally I can't see a scenario where the iPhone goes by the wayside. People love the iPod and if they can have an iPod and a phone all in one, they're going to keep buying them.

Let's face it. If you look at the raw numbers, Android smartphone sales are absolutely huge...but so are iPhones. The bottom is dropping out so fast on RIM that their heads have got to spinning. Yet everyone wants to compare the growth of Android sales directly with iPhones when they're both selling like hot cakes while the rest of the players are dropping like flies.

I can't really find anywhere that says that iPhones numbers are merely a blip...which would make it a record setting blip BTW. :shrug:

Mike


----------



## Mike Bertelson

<mod hat> Please discuss the topic and NOT each other.

Thank You.

Mike


----------



## tcusta00

"Mike Bertelson" said:


> Or, taking into consideration the total number of smartphone sales over the last year, and taking into account that the record number of iPhones sold last quarter Q1 2011 sales are more than double that of Q4 2010 seems to indicate more than a blip.
> 
> Personally I can't see a scenario where the iPhone goes by the wayside. People love the iPod and if they can have an iPod and a phone all in one, they're going to keep buying them.
> 
> Let's face it. If you look at the raw numbers, Android smartphone sales are absolutely huge...but so are iPhones. The bottom is dropping out so fast on RIM that their heads have got to spinning. Yet everyone wants to compare the growth of Android sales directly with iPhones when they're both selling like hot cakes while the rest of the players are dropping like flies.
> 
> I can't really find anywhere that says that iPhones numbers are merely a blip...which would make it a record setting blip BTW. :shrug:
> 
> Mike


When you look at it like that it makes too much sense and doesn't make it look like android is dealing this crushing blow to iPhone. Then again you're not in android marketing. :lol:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Mike Bertelson said:


> Personally *I can't see a scenario where the iPhone goes by the wayside*. People love the iPod and if they can have an iPod and a phone all in one, they're going to keep buying them.
> 
> Let's face it. If you look at the raw numbers, *Android smart phone sales are absolutely huge...but so are iPhones*. The bottom is dropping out so fast on RIM that their heads have got to spinning. Yet everyone wants to compare the growth of Android sales directly with iPhones when they're both selling like hot cakes while the rest of the players are dropping like flies.


I totally agree with you on both points.

Yes - absolutely - iPhones are not at all going away for the foreseeable future - heck - they're doing pretty well selling the older model iPhone 3's (at the new lower price, of course).

I also agree with you that in the bigger picture...there are simply alot of smart phones being sold...and RIM seems to be the one with the biggest risk of future extinction.

But in the context of the discussion at the time...my point was that at one time....it appeared iPhone would "own" the smart phone market including market share), and that time passed them by. Buying habits changed based on the choices presented. Android introduced a number of things not found in the iPhones, and the market responded.

Again - as I've stated multiple times now - iPad2 is king of the tablets at this time. If I got one tomorrow I'd use it alot and enjoy the things it can do. I periodically use my future son-in law's iPad, and like the build quality and general operation of the unit. Apple builds quality hardware, no doubt about it.

But like smartphones...there's a bigger picture, and that is that tablets have not yet matured to their potential. For that very reason, I suspect there will be things in the iPad3 that will kick butt. Then again, if the Android tablets and the Ice Cream Sandwich OS takes root before iPad3's show up...there's a window of opportunity for history to repeat itself.

I'd be willing to bet some $$$ that in the next 9-12 months where we see an iPad3 and Android tablet (running the Ice Cream Sandwich OS version) at the same time - both tablets will kick butt and gain more tablet adoption in total sales....the overall tablet market (size) is mostly untapped at this moment in time.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> But like smartphones...there's a bigger picture, and that is that tablets have not yet matured to their potential.


Has anything in the technology world? Or will it ever?? 

You can't constantly look forward. You have to buy what's out there right now that best suits your needs. If you sit on the sideline and wait for the "next best thing", you're going to be sitting there for... well, forever.

I suspect things like Best Buy's new buy back program will become commonplace. Of course, there's always been eBay. I know I've never had a problem getting a great return on my previous model Apple gear.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Steve said:


> Android's *U.S.* smartphone marketshare actually dropped in Q1:
> 
> _"While Android is still the most widely used OS on smartphones in the U.S., its market share fell in the first quarter to 50%, from 53% in the previous quarter, the NPD Group said.
> 
> *The decline is Android's first since the second quarter of 2009.* Apple's iOS gained market share, jumping to 28% from 19% the previous quarter, while Research In Motion's BlackBerry OS fell to 14% from 19% a quarter earlier, the research firm said." [more]_


Yes but 50% of what vs 53% of what? It's in relation to the total number of smart phones it's still growing. AAMOF, some of the latest projections have the actual number of Android phones on pace to triple the number of phones from Q4 2010 to Q4 2011. Not to mention that the number of smartphones hit a record 350 million units which is nearly 60 million more than 2010 making the 50% of the total number a large increase over the 53% from Q4 2010. Percentages don't tell the whole story.

Mike


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Sorry doubters...but here are the facts....when it comes to smartphones...Android Popularity Grows, While iOS and BlackBerry Dwindle.


That's sure not what Comscore seems to think. Here's a link I posted less than a month back in this very thread...



Greg Alsobrook said:


> Since we're not limiting ourselves to one device here, then surely you won't mind if we include iPods and iPads in this discussion... which puts iOS outreach 59% greater than Android. Sure doesn't seem like it's going to be a less significant platform anytime soon to me.
> 
> http://www.comscore.com/Press_Event...tform_Outreaches_Android_by_59_Percent_in_U.S
> 
> I also don't know if I would capitalize "dominate". Macs are gaining market share at a record pace.


Anything I've read since just reiterates what that article states. iOS is not losing marking share to Android. iOS is remaining steady and/or gaining slightly (depending on what you read), and Android is gaining at the expense of RIM and other dying brands.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

tcusta00 said:


> When you look at it like that it makes too much sense and doesn't make it look like android is dealing this crushing blow to iPhone. Then again you're not in android marketing. :lol:


I am however and Android fan. I have both an iPhone and an Android and I like my Android better. But, that's based only personal preference of some minor things and not that one performs better than the other.

Not to mention that what I like doesn't change the numbers. :shrug:

Mike


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Has anything in the technology world? Or will it ever??


Probably not.


> You can't constantly look forward. You *have to buy *what's out there right now that best suits your needs. If you sit on the sideline and wait for the "next best thing", you're going to be sitting there for... well, forever.


But nobody really *has to buy *a tablet . It's still an optional/discretionary device - other things can do what a tablet does. The primary advantage of the tablet is size/weight, as well as the corresponding mobility for use.

Since there is no urgency...I agree waiting forever isn't prudent....but waiting is what many people seem to be doing - at least until tablets do enough to subplant something else being used, or else add enough new capabilities so that they become the device of choice most of the time. We aren't there yet, regardless of the brand or OS. Perhaps some time 4Q 2011 and/or 1Q 2012...things could reach that tipping point.


----------



## Doug Brott

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Then again...they said the very same thing about the Android phones...now iPhones are the tougher sell. Just sayin...


Not when I look for my next phone .. I'm an iPhamily fan and as far as I'm concerned, there isn't anything else out there. It would be very tough to sell an Android phone to me.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Doug Brott said:


> Not when I look for my next phone .. I'm an iPhamily fan and as far as I'm concerned, there isn't anything else out there. It would be very tough to sell an Android phone to me.


I can see that.

Very few brands command the brand loyalty Apple does.


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Since there is no urgency...I agree waiting forever isn't prudent....*but waiting is what many people seem to be doing* - at least until tablets do enough to subplant something else being used, or else add enough new capabilities so that they become the device of choice most of the time. We aren't there yet, regardless of the brand or OS. Perhaps some time 4Q 2011 and/or 1Q 2012...things could reach that tipping point.


I think a more accurate generalization would be that many people don't want any sort of tablet. As of March 19 million iPads had been sold. At that time some industry analysts suggest sales of 40 million for 2011. Lots of people are not waiting.


----------



## Sixto

People are waiting. They're waiting in line all over the world to buy one. Hopefully supply will eventually meet demand.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Sixto said:


> People are waiting. They're waiting in line all over the world to buy one. Hopefully supply while eventually meet demand.


I waited 15 days for my ASUS preordering.


----------



## Steve

Mike Bertelson said:


> Yes but 50% of what vs 53% of what?


US-only consumer smart phones in use at the time of the calculation.



> [...] in relation to the total number of smart phones *[Android's]* still growing.


Absolutely. And so is the iPhone. As you and I both pointed out a few posts back, the *18.7* million iPhones sold in Q1/2011 represents the *third consecutive quarter of record iPhone* sales for Apple.


----------



## tcusta00

Steve said:


> US-only consumer smart phones in use at the time of the calculation.
> 
> Absolutely. And so is the iPhone. As you and I both pointed out in earlier posts, the 18.x million iPhones sold in Q1/2011 represents the *third consecutive quarter of record iPhone* sales for Apple.


Tough sell.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I think a more accurate generalization would be that many people don't want any sort of tablet. As of March 19 million iPads had been sold. At that time some industry analysts suggest sales of 40 million for 2011. Lots of people are not waiting.


Ya. I remember reading somewhere that Apple ordered about 45 million iPad screens from Samsung for all of 2011. At the rate they are selling, they're probably going to burn through those by August.  Just a WAG on my part.


----------



## Steve

Walmart's gone tablet crazy. Just got an e-mail with this link.


----------



## bobukcat

This thread, and so many like it on so many other forums seems to keep getting drug into the "all or nothing" arguments. Of course the iPhone and I pad aren't going to suddenly become irrelevant, I only tried to point out how quickly a bevy of high quality competitors can swing the market. I don't think many people thought Nokia and RIM would be in the place they are in such a short period of time though so it just goes to show that crazy things do happen.

I also specifically talked about worldwide market share, not just the U.S. but don't have time to look up stats right now, I'm getting ready to watch the season finale of "Chuck!".


----------



## DarkSkies

bobukcat said:


> This thread, and so many like it on so many other forums seems to keep getting drug into the "all or nothing" arguments.


Yup... and I've seen other threads right here at this forum that would have had at least five posts with banners waving

:backtotop :backtotop :backtotop :backtotop

but I guess there are exceptions sometimes when the few forum members I've relied on to wave the banners are involved in the kerfuffle!  :lol:


----------



## tcusta00

Meh. It's a 50 page off topic thread about a device that morphs by the day. It's bound to veer off topic, especially when it involves Apple, the company people love to hate.


----------



## Chris Blount

Seagate's new Hard Drive for iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch

http://usat.ly/k2WgyO


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Seagate's new Hard Drive for iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch
> 
> http://usat.ly/k2WgyO


Very cool idea.

Now at least Apple users have a 3rd party solution to their storage limits. My future son-in-law stores alot of work-related data files on his iPad2 and mumbles about storage..so he's gonna be happy to hear this.

Looks like the Android version will follow about a month later.

Kudos to Seagate.

One of the newer tablets that hasn't gotten much press or hype, yet appears in many retail stores, is the Acer Iconic Tablet. While it happens to be the least expensive of the newer line of tablets ($449 - runs Android 3.0), there has been almost no marketing of the device, except in stores.

Here's a review (there is one very funny part when they reference the OS by the wrong name ):

http://www.topcomputertablets.com/acer-iconia-tab-a500-10s16u-android-tablet-tear-down/225259/

*Nook Color E-Reader Hits 1M Tablet App Downloads*

http://gigaom.com/mobile/nook-color-e-reader-hits-1m-tablet-app-downloads/

"Here's Why I'm Waiting For The iPad 3"

http://www.businessinsider.com/ipad-3-upgrade-2011-3

Dan Frommer is Senior Staff Writer at Business Insider. He writes about Apple and other big players in the technology industry, with a special focus on mobile tech.

*HTC Puccini to bring 10-inch new Tablet, LTE to AT&T?*

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/17/htc-puccini-touted-as-a-10-inch-lte-tablet-with-1-5ghz-processor/

*Amazon prepping dual-core 'Coyote' and quad-core 'Hollywood' tablets for 2011:*

http://www.bgr.com/2011/05/16/amazo...ote-and-quad-core-hollywood-tablets-for-2011/


----------



## tcusta00

Never understood the storage "problem." I got a 32gb iPad and could probably have gotten away with the 16gb. I can't find enough content to come close to filling it up. Even with HD video, this thing can hold way more than I could possibly want to take with me anywhere. 

Work files? Jeez, even using the absolute largest file I've received in my email in the past three weeks, which is a 4MB PDF, I'd need to store 250 of those on my iPad to even take up 1GB. Again, I don't even see the need for anyone to be carrying around gobs of work files with them on a tablet. I keep about two dozen presentation and PDF files on my iPad, 2200 songs, a handful of videos, a dozen Zinio magazines, a few dozen photos, a few iBooks and a month worth of emails and attachments from three email accounts. And I still have 16gb free. 

It comes back to the "you don't know how you'll use a tablet until you actually use a tablet" argument. Actual usage trumps rhetorical "it just needs more storage" statements any day. And no, I'm not taking the storage argument as an affront to apple, I'm just baffled that anyone could really need to carry around that much data with them on a tablet.


----------



## Chris Blount

tcusta00 said:


> Never understood the storage "problem." I got a 32gb iPad and could probably have gotten away with the 16gb. I can't find enough content to come close to filling it up. Even with HD video, this thing can hold way more than I could possibly want to take with me anywhere.
> 
> Work files? Jeez, even using the absolute largest file I've received in my email in the past three weeks, which is a 4MB PDF, I'd need to store 250 of those on my iPad to even take up 1GB. Again, I don't even see the need for anyone to be carrying around gobs of work files with them on a tablet. I keep about two dozen presentation and PDF files on my iPad, 2200 songs, a handful of videos, a dozen Zinio magazines, a few dozen photos, a few iBooks and a month worth of emails and attachments from three email accounts. And I still have 16gb free.
> 
> It comes back to the "you don't know how you'll use a tablet until you actually use a tablet" argument. Actual usage trumps rhetorical "it just needs more storage" statements any day. And no, I'm not taking the storage argument as an affront to apple, I'm just baffled that anyone could really need to carry around that much data with them on a tablet.


 I agree. I have the 64GB version and I still haven't filled it up even after loading a bunch of video to watch while I'm exercising. I also have my entire photo collection (over 6000 photos) and music collection (250 albums) and I still have over 20GB left.


----------



## bobukcat

tcusta00 said:


> Never understood the storage "problem." I got a 32gb iPad and could probably have gotten away with the 16gb. I can't find enough content to come close to filling it up. Even with HD video, this thing can hold way more than I could possibly want to take with me anywhere.
> 
> Work files? Jeez, even using the absolute largest file I've received in my email in the past three weeks, which is a 4MB PDF, I'd need to store 250 of those on my iPad to even take up 1GB. Again, I don't even see the need for anyone to be carrying around gobs of work files with them on a tablet. I keep about two dozen presentation and PDF files on my iPad, 2200 songs, a handful of videos, a dozen Zinio magazines, a few dozen photos, a few iBooks and a month worth of emails and attachments from three email accounts. And I still have 16gb free.
> 
> It comes back to the "you don't know how you'll use a tablet until you actually use a tablet" argument. Actual usage trumps rhetorical "it just needs more storage" statements any day. And no, I'm not taking the storage argument as an affront to apple, I'm just baffled that anyone could really need to carry around that much data with them on a tablet.


That's why one size does not fit all, I have a 32 GB Xoom I would like to put all my music on as well as some movies and photos but my music collection alone is over 40GB so I have to decided what to put on and what to leave off. It doesn't matter why I, personally, want to have all my music with me, that's what I want and I'm a consumer. When they release SD card support for it (or I root it and put the non-stock kernel on it) I'll buy a 32GB card and fill it entirely with a lot of music, put the remaining music on the internal storage and maybe buy another card for movies, etc. If I could have bought a 64GB (or even larger) model I probably would have.

On the flip side there are people that 16GB is enough for; but it would be nice, in theory, if you bought a 16GB model and in six months decided you LOVE to watch movies on it (or wanted to store all your music, etc) you could expand it. It doesn't mean the product is a POS for not supporting that feature, that no one will buy it, etc. - it just means it's a non-supported feature that some other products may have and buyers can make their choices with their credit cards. The external hard drive provides an option besides selling the lower-memory model you have and buying the upgraded tablet (I'll not go in to why you might wish to actually upgrade the tablet and use memory as an excuse.  )


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> I agree. I have the 64GB version and I still haven't filled it up even after loading *a bunch of video to watch *while I'm exercising. I also have my entire photo collection (over 6000 photos) and music collection (250 albums) and I still have over 20GB left.


Curious - how many of those videos are 2-hour MPEG4 HD movies?...just asking.

_[Since the Android tablets support HD resolution playback, they will likely need to have enough storage capacity to hold those kinds of files (which tend to be very large)]_

I suspect Seagate would not have introduced this product for the Apple iPad and other iOS devices if there was no market for it too.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/ipad-storage-challenged/773


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Curious - how many of those videos are 2-hour MPEG4 HD movies?...just asking.


That is a whole other argument. HD video on a tablet is kind of pointless and more of a selling point than anything else. A well encoded SD movie on a tablet is practically indistiguishable from an HD movie since the screen size is so small.

I can't remember where I saw it but there was a blind study done a while back. They played HD video on a 32" LCD TV and then played the same video in SD quality on the same TV. 85% couldn't tell the difference. I will see if I can find that study.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> That is a whole other argument. HD video on a tablet is kind of pointless and more of a selling point than anything else. A well encoded SD movie on a tablet is practically indistiguishable from an HD movie since the screen size is so small.
> 
> I can't remember where I saw it but there was a blind study done a while back. They played HD video on a 32" LCD TV and then played the same video in SD quality on the same TV. 85% couldn't tell the difference. I will see if I can find that study.


Yup.

The actual video resolution required for "HD" display is much lower than the actual display resolution on portable devices. E.g., my iPod's "retina" display has a native resolution of 960x640, but video transcoded to 480x320 is indistinguishable from video transcoded at full resolution. IOW, there's no visible ROI for the extra storage space being consumed.

BTW, the one comment I get most often on the iPad2 is how gorgeous the video playback is. The backlit "IPS" display is truly stunning, especially from off angles.

Where I expect the iPad 3 to do better is on small type found on many web sites, because I'm very anal about type quality. That's where the "retina" display will make the most difference, IMHO.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> That is a whole other argument. *HD video on a tablet is kind of pointless and more of a selling point than anything else*.


Really?

Hmmm...guess there would be no need whatsoever to iPad3 support a higher screen resolution then (even though that is precisely what is forecast to happen).


> A well encoded SD movie on a tablet is practically indistiguishable from an HD movie since the screen size is so small.


*If* that would be the case....then it would be interesting to know how big those "well-encoded" indistinguishable SD movie files might be? I suspect they'd still be measured in GB.


----------



## bobukcat

Chris Blount said:


> That is a whole other argument. HD video on a tablet is kind of pointless and more of a selling point than anything else. A well encoded SD movie on a tablet is practically indistiguishable from an HD movie since the screen size is so small.
> 
> I can't remember where I saw it but there was a blind study done a while back. They played HD video on a 32" LCD TV and then played the same video in SD quality on the same TV. 85% couldn't tell the difference. I will see if I can find that study.


Granted, but what if you wanted to hook your tablet up to a larger display? I'll concede that seems like a less likely use scenario for needing dozens of said movies, but it is something the tablets support.

As for people not being able to see the difference in video quality, that doesn't surprise me one bit - many people just don't notice little (and some times HUGE) differences. The same can be said for audio, I'm far from a high-end audioholic but the number of people who think an MP3 sounds the same as a CD is disturbing to me.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> Granted, but what if you wanted to hook your tablet up to a larger display?


If that's how you want to you use your tablet, as a media storage device for large displays, ya... either buy a 64gb iPad or a Honeycomb tablet with an SD slot.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Really?
> 
> Hmmm...guess there would be no need whatsoever to iPad3 support a higher screen resolution then (even though that is precisely what is forecast to happen).
> 
> *If* that would be the case....then it would be interesting to know how big those "well-encoded" indistinguishable SD movie files might be? I suspect they'd still be measured in GB.


Haven't you been messing with tablets? A well encoded movie is about 1.2 GB. It looks fantastic on a tablet.


----------



## Chris Blount

bobukcat said:


> Granted, but what if you wanted to hook your tablet up to a larger display? I'll concede that seems like a less likely use scenario for needing dozens of said movies, but it is something the tablets support.


I thought about that. I have used Airplay to put movies up on my 60" display from my iPad. It looks fairly good but not great. I admit though, I don't do it very often.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Haven't you been messing with tablets? A well encoded movie is about 1.2 GB. It looks fantastic on a tablet.


That was my point...even an SD movie takes up GB of storage. That's almost 10% of the memory on a 16GB iPad2 for just one movie. Yes...I've "messed" with several tablets actually, most often an iPad2.

Yes, I've seen streamed and downloaded videos on the iPad2, and they do look very good. But I also contend they are visibly nowhere near as good as HD video (which I see on my 14" work laptop from Blu Ray for comparison).

Having also spent lots of time on the iPad blogs...the top 3 enhancements desired and anticipated *by existing iPad users *on those blogs for iPad3 are: HD screen resolution, storage expansion, and a USB port.

If iPad3 comes with those 3 things...and many rumors indicate they are top possibilities....it will be extremely difficult to unseat it as king of the tablets in the future as well.


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Having also spent lots of time on the iPad blogs...the top 3 enhancements desired and anticipated *by existing iPad users *on those blogs for iPad3 are: HD screen resolution, storage expansion, and a USB port.


Do you have any actual statistics, you know facts, to back that up?

I think everyone expects retina somewhere down the road. I don't think the other two will ever show up on iPhone or iPad.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

klang said:


> Do you have any actual statistics, you know facts, to back that up?


Nonsense. :lol:



klang said:


> I think everyone expects retina somewhere down the road. I don't think the other two will ever show up on iPhone or iPad.


Agreed. I admit that the retina display would be great on the iPad. Although, the current screen still looks fantastic. I remember reading an article a good while back that explained why the retina display was not likely on the iPad. I'll see if I can find that. The other two (storage expansion and USB) are items that are requested by people who have missed the boat on the concept of tablets.


----------



## Chris Blount

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yes, I've seen streamed and downloaded videos on the iPad2, and they do look very good. But I also contend they are visibly nowhere near as good as HD video (which I see on my 14" work laptop from Blu Ray for comparison).


That's not really a very good comparison as you are not comparing two tablets.

I'm not worried so much about HD on my tablet. I would rather see a retina display. As noted earlier, reading small fonts is much easier. Also a HD display could possibly mean a change in aspect ratio for the tablets which Apple will probably not do.

As I said, it's very easy for tablet makers to slap on the "HD Display" label and use it as a selling point. Personally I'm not falling for it. It's a cheap way for tablet makers to compete and not exactly honest since the label assumes that you are getting something much, much better than a "standard" display which is really not the case in most people's eyes.

I agree there should be a way to increase the storage space on the iPad via SD card for those who need it. I personally don't. As far as USB capability, don't need that either although I do have it on the iPad 2 via an adapter.


----------



## tcusta00

Why is USB needed?


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> That's not really a very good comparison as you are not comparing two tablets.
> 
> I'm not worried so much about HD on my tablet. I would rather see a retina display.


Actually its a perfect comparison..what great video does and can look like.

So forgetting an HD-specific display for the moment...I agree that a retina screen would likely do the trick for viewing purposes.


klang said:


> Do you have any actual statistics, you know facts, to back that up?
> 
> I think everyone expects retina somewhere down the road. I don't think the other two will ever show up on iPhone or iPad.


Feel free to explore the numerous iPad blogs....there are literally thousands of posts out there on the subject. I just kept a simple tick sheet for survey counts.

Here are just a very few of the reams of sites/threads/blogs on this topic...:

http://www.reviewtablets.com/what-you-can-look-forward-to-in-2011-with-ipad3-tablet/

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/39052/ipad-3-specs-and-features

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1152368&page=10

http://www.ipadexec.com/blog/?p=248

http://www.ipadforums.net/ipad-general-discussions/20126-what-left-add-ipad3-worth-wait-15.html


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

tcusta00 said:


> Why is USB needed?


Shhh. It just is.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Shhh. It just is.


Yup - per the linked threads in post #1254 (posted mostly by Apple users).

Let me make it perhaps a bit simpler...if the iPad2 (or iPad3) had an HD or retina screen, an SD slot, and a USB or mini-USB port....we wouldn't be having this conversation.


----------



## Greg Alsobrook

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Let me make it perhaps a bit simpler...if the iPad2 (or iPad3) had an HD or retina screen, an SD slot, and a USB or mini-USB port....we wouldn't be having this conversation.


Correct. We would be having it in the NETBOOKS??? or LAPTOPS??? thread.


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Feel free to explore the numerous iPad blogs....there are literally thousands of posts out there on the subject. *I just kept a simple tick sheet for survey counts.*


Sorry, that's just obsessive. !rolling


----------



## Stuart Sweet

hdtvfan0001 said:


> Yup - per the linked threads in post #1254 (posted mostly by Apple users).
> 
> Let me make it perhaps a bit simpler...if the iPad2 (or iPad3) had an HD or retina screen, an SD slot, and a USB or mini-USB port....we wouldn't be having this conversation.


I wish the screen were a little higher res. But I truly do not miss the SD slot or USB port.


----------



## Rich

Doug Brott said:


> Not when I look for my next phone .. I'm an iPhamily fan and as far as I'm concerned, there isn't anything else out there. It would be very tough to sell an Android phone to me.


The way my Droid X keeps discharging the battery makes me yearn for an iPhone5. The thing gets really hot and the battery charge drops precipitously. And all I can do is go the Verizon store and get another Droid X. I went thru the same thing with my last Verizon phone for different reasons, but they don't fix anything, just give you a new phone which does the same thing as the old phone.

My fault for going back to Verizon.

Rich


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> Sorry, that's just obsessive. !rolling


I simply anticipated the fact police. :lol:


----------



## bobukcat

Chris Blount said:


> I'm not worried so much about HD on my tablet. I would rather see a retina display. As noted earlier, reading small fonts is much easier. Also a HD display could possibly mean a change in aspect ratio for the tablets which Apple will probably not do.
> 
> As I said, it's very easy for tablet makers to slap on the "HD Display" label and use it as a selling point. Personally I'm not falling for it. It's a cheap way for tablet makers to compete and not exactly honest since the label assumes that you are getting something much, much better than a "standard" display which is really not the case in most people's eyes.


Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? You'd like a higher-resolution display (Retina) but you discount an "HD Display" as a marketing gimmick when it really is a higher-resolution display, regardless of the "HD Video" playback claims it has benefits outside of video playback.

I promise you that "Angry Birds" looks better on my Xoom than on an iPad.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? [...] regardless of the "HD Video" playback claims it has benefits outside of video playback.


That's what Chris meant, and the point I tried to make earlier. "Retina" has advantages for text. For video, it's overkill.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Greg Alsobrook said:


> Correct. We would be having it in the NETBOOKS??? or LAPTOPS??? thread.


Not really....I'd be too busy posting from the ideal tablet.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

There is no ideal tablet. Oh wait, there is no spoon. That's it.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Stuart Sweet said:


> There is no ideal tablet. Oh wait, there is no spoon. That's it.


:lol::lol::lol:

You're probably right...ideal is a goal, not a reality.


----------



## Rich

tcusta00 said:


> Never understood the storage "problem." I got a 32gb iPad and could probably have gotten away with the 16gb. I can't find enough content to come close to filling it up. Even with HD video, this thing can hold way more than I could possibly want to take with me anywhere.
> 
> Work files? Jeez, even using the absolute largest file I've received in my email in the past three weeks, which is a 4MB PDF, I'd need to store 250 of those on my iPad to even take up 1GB. Again, I don't even see the need for anyone to be carrying around gobs of work files with them on a tablet. I keep about two dozen presentation and PDF files on my iPad, 2200 songs, a handful of videos, a dozen Zinio magazines, a few dozen photos, a few iBooks and a month worth of emails and attachments from three email accounts. And I still have 16gb free.
> 
> It comes back to the "you don't know how you'll use a tablet until you actually use a tablet" argument. Actual usage trumps rhetorical "it just needs more storage" statements any day. And no, I'm not taking the storage argument as an affront to apple, I'm just baffled that anyone could really need to carry around that much data with them on a tablet.


My wife finally let go of the iPad and I got a chance to see how I was doing on capacity and my 16GB pad has only 1GB of stuff stored on it. And I've got a lot of apps.

My main computer that I've had for about 3-4 years has a nearly empty HDD on it too. I only use it as a portal to the Net and for email.

Rich


----------



## raott

tcusta00 said:


> Why is USB needed?


To easily move files without need for internet and to load presentations at seminars which are often handed out via USB now.


----------



## bobukcat

raott said:


> to load presentations at seminars which are often handed out via USB now.


That's actually a really interesting point I've not considered before and another use for my Xoom I'm going to take advantage of.


----------



## tcusta00

"raott" said:


> To easily move files without need for internet and to load presentations at seminars which are often handed out via USB now.


The cloud rules! Just ask... Um... google.


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> I simply anticipated the fact police. :lol:


I've been summarily shut down by your tick sheet.

Darn.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

raott said:


> To easily move files without need for internet and to load presentations at seminars which are often handed out via USB now.


"without the internet?" Seems to me that in very short order that phrase will sound as impossible as "without the atmosphere."


----------



## trdrjeff

The Cloud's working out great for Sony & Amazon :blackeye:


----------



## tcusta00

I think the cloud for personal file storage is definitely viable. I'm anxious to see what apple comes out with.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

While I don't understand the omission of a USB port, the iPad really does have a USB port of a sort.

That standard white cable that plugs into the iPad and the USB port on a computer is being used for adapters for an SD card reader or a USB port for a camera (Link).

It would be nice to just put that SD card directly into the tablet to look at your pictures without having to use an external device, or to increase storage capacity.

Mike


----------



## spartanstew

Chris Blount said:


> I can't remember where I saw it but there was a blind study done a while back. They played HD video on a 32" LCD TV and then played the same video in SD quality on the same TV. 85% couldn't tell the difference. I will see if I can find that study.


All a matter of size vs distance.

You could do the same test on a 130" screen and get the same results, as long as everyone was 50' back from the screen.

If the subjects were 6' or further from the 32" screen than those are the expected results.


----------



## Laxguy

spartanstew said:


> All a matter of size vs distance.
> 
> You could do the same test on a 130" screen and get the same results, as long as everyone was 50' back from the screen.
> 
> If the subjects were 6' or further from the 32" screen than those are the expected results.


32" is about perfect for pixel density for HD! (Several companies, when pressed at CES, said so). But at a distance of what, two feet? No one watches that way for long.....YMMV, but for me, about five feet from my 58" is preferred.

Also, I can always tell a huge diff. between decent HD vs. decent SD *at my preferred viewing distances. *

When SD shows its ugly mug on my LR set, I sometimes go outside to peer through a window to "make it look better". - maybe 30' away.


----------



## spartanstew

Laxguy said:


> Also, I can always tell a huge diff. between decent HD vs. decent SD *at my preferred viewing distances. *


From 5' away on a 58" display? I would hope you could see a huge difference. If not, it'd be time for an eye exam.


----------



## Sixto

Always interesting to get buried in work and then come back to this thread and see the same ole HD screen, USB, and storage debates.

It seems fairly obvious, some want those 3 things, and most don't care.

For those that want, they have lot's of other tablets to pick from, simple as that.

It's probably very easy to make a case that most of America has no need for any of the 3. Just use an iPad2 with 64GB for a while and you'll probably quickly come to the conclusion that it's not worth the time worrying about.

My personal experience ... on the small screen ... most any video looks perfect. Just a few days ago I was double checking the specs, because I really wasn't sure what HDTV was talking about with the "HD" comments. Every video I've watched on the iPad has been crystal clear, and I couldn't imagine how it could be any better, thus my research into what the issue was. It does seem like a Retina display might help text, but even that looks pretty darn clear.

And as for USB and storage, if you need it, great, select another tablet, but most likely it's not much needed for the general public. But choice is good.

Again, probably a waste of time to debate any of this stuff ... those that have different needs will go elsewhere, and those that have actually used a tablet and don't see the need will never win any theoretical argument.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Sixto said:


> Always interesting to get buried in work and then come back to this thread and see the same ole HD screen, USB, and storage debates.
> 
> It seems fairly obvious, some want those 3 things, and most don't care.


Things are not always as obvious as they seem to appear. There are more than "some" looking for more things from their technology, if you check back a bit further in the thread and read the links.

In any case...its good to always keep tabs on a broader range of information... 

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2781887#post2781887


----------



## Chris Blount

Sixto said:


> Again, probably a waste of time to debate any of this stuff ... those that have different needs will go elsewhere, and those that have actually used a tablet and don't see the need will never win any theoretical argument.


Yeah no kidding. To reduce the noise for people looking for solid information, I was thinking about starting a "Tablet Review" thread. Only people who actually own a tablet would be allowed to post in the thread about their thoughts. No comment or clutter allowed. That can all be done in this thread. Right now it's difficult to find anything in this thread from people who own and use tablets daily.


----------



## houskamp

looks like a tivo thread


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> Yeah no kidding. To reduce the noise for people looking for solid information, I was thinking about starting a "Tablet Review" thread. Only people who actually own a tablet would be allowed to post in the thread about their thoughts. No comment or clutter allowed. That can all be done in this thread. *Right now it's difficult to find anything in this thread from people who own and use tablets daily*.


There's been lots of good ASUS Transformer hands-on review information from *FHSPSU67*....as well as *bobukcat* on his Xoom....and also many posts of experience on many devices from *Rich584*...who has tried a wide range of roadtested devices...

I've got about 80+ hours hands on with an iPad2 now...but not quite ready to do a review yet. I can almost feel the disappointment about it...but perhaps some day...


----------



## spartanstew

Chris Blount said:


> Yeah no kidding. To reduce the noise for people looking for solid information, I was thinking about starting a "Tablet Review" thread. Only people who actually own a tablet would be allowed to post in the thread about their thoughts. No comment or clutter allowed. That can all be done in this thread. Right now it's difficult to find anything in this thread from people who own and use tablets daily.


You don't have to own one to have an opinion on it though - many have experienced tablets in some capacity (i.e. my brother has an ipad I play with occasionally and I played with several tablets at CES). Besides, since most of the good tablets haven't been released yet (cept the Transformer, which one person here has), a thread like that would soon be filled with nothing but ipad talk and it would be equally as difficult to find information about anything else.


----------



## RasputinAXP

hdtvfan0001 said:


> There's been lots of good ASUS Transformer hands-on review information from *FHSPSU67*....as well as *bobukcat* on his Xoom....and also many posts of experience on many devices from *Rich584*...who has tried a wide range of roadtested devices...
> 
> I've got about 80+ hours hands on with an iPad2 now...but not quite ready to do a review yet. I can almost feel the disappointment about it...but perhaps some day...


aww, forgot about me, too. I'm so bleeding edge i nearly bricked my Xoom getting 3.1 onto it early!


----------



## BudShark

spartanstew said:


> You don't have to own one to have an opinion on it though - many have experienced tablets in some capacity (i.e. my brother has an ipad I play with occasionally and I played with several tablets at CES). Besides, since most of the good tablets haven't been released yet (cept the Transformer, which one person here has), a thread like that would soon be filled with nothing but ipad talk and it would be equally as difficult to find information about anything else.


I think thats the rub though. I bought an iPad because of WANT and COULD. I then played with it for about a week - basically like a giant iPhone.

My thoughts at that point? Gee... this was a waste, maybe I should return it and buy a MacBook Air.

But then... something happened. I learned to use it as a tablet. I learned it wasn't a giant iPhone. I got the right software tools, I expanded my use to more complex tasks (video editing, note taking, video Podcasts, and yes, e-books(.

And now? You couldn't take this from me. I'd give you my DVR, my iMac, and just about any other piece of technology before I'd let you take my iPad from me.

So, I can see how someone who's never had one or borrows someone elses would have a different opinion than someone who has owned one for a month or so.

I don't know if others have had similar experiences, but I suspect they have.


----------



## tcusta00

"Chris Blount" said:


> Yeah no kidding. To reduce the noise for people looking for solid information, I was thinking about starting a "Tablet Review" thread. Only people who actually own a tablet would be allowed to post in the thread about their thoughts. No comment or clutter allowed. That can all be done in this thread. Right now it's difficult to find anything in this thread from people who own and use tablets daily.


I thought that what this thread was going to be - hands on, first hand reports of the tablets. It's turned into an anticipation thread, laced with the usual "Apple doesn't work for me because..." theoretical arguments and a hundred or so links to gizmodo/engadget/bgr. Maybe if we could all be adults and not criticize other's choices in technologies, this thread can be saved and get back on track. Healthy debate is good, mocking others for their choices in tech is not.


----------



## wilbur_the_goose

The thing that hurts the table paradigm for me is typing. I type about 80WPM, and I just can't stand to slow down on these tablets. I know a keyboard is available, but when you go there, you end up with a teeny-tiny laptop, and who wants that?


----------



## tcusta00

"wilbur_the_goose" said:


> The thing that hurts the table paradigm for me is typing. I type about 80WPM, and I just can't stand to slow down on these tablets. I know a keyboard is available, but when you go there, you end up with a teeny-tiny laptop, and who wants that?


I type pretty quickly on mine. Never tested the difference between tablet and keyboard though, maybe I'll try.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> Yeah no kidding. To reduce the noise for people looking for solid information, I was thinking about starting a "Tablet Review" thread. Only people who actually own a tablet would be allowed to post in the thread about their thoughts. No comment or clutter allowed. That can all be done in this thread. Right now it's difficult to find anything in this thread from people who own and use tablets daily.


*Stew's* point is well-taken, IMO, but unfortunately based on the posting history in this thread, limiting it to tablet owners only, as you suggest, may be the only way to prevent further unpleasantness. It's a shame, because there are probably some prospective buyers "on the fence" with legitimate questions for tablet owners, but unless there's some way to impose an individual daily posting limit, experience shows we'll most likely be subjected to more of the same _thread-jacking_ that's taken place here.

A new tablet users forum would be a great place to share tips, tricks and experience. It would probably need 2-3 threads, IMO. One for iOS, at least one for Android and perhaps a third thread for general discussion among tablet owners. _*Maybe a fourth thread dedicated to questions from prospective buyers could be heavily moderated?*_ Just my .02.


----------



## spartanstew

BudShark said:


> I think thats the rub though. I bought an iPad because of WANT and COULD. I then played with it for about a week - basically like a giant iPhone.
> 
> My thoughts at that point? Gee... this was a waste, maybe I should return it and buy a MacBook Air.
> 
> But then... something happened. I learned to use it as a tablet. I learned it wasn't a giant iPhone. I got the right software tools, I expanded my use to more complex tasks (video editing, note taking, video Podcasts, and yes, e-books(.
> 
> And now? You couldn't take this from me. I'd give you my DVR, my iMac, and just about any other piece of technology before I'd let you take my iPad from me.
> 
> So, I can see how someone who's never had one or borrows someone elses would have a different opinion than someone who has owned one for a month or so.
> 
> I don't know if others have had similar experiences, but I suspect they have.


Perhaps, but I think many already know what a tablet can do, why they want it, and how they'll use it (and some have figured that out due to this thread).

AVS has lots of Official Owners Threads on just about every type of device. 80% of the posts in those threads are by people that aren't owners, but are interested in getting information. It's just the way things are.


----------



## BubblePuppy

"Chris Blount" said:


> Yeah no kidding. To reduce the noise for people looking for solid information, I was thinking about starting a "Tablet Review" thread. Only people who actually own a tablet would be allowed to post in the thread about their thoughts. No comment or clutter allowed. That can all be done in this thread. Right now it's difficult to find anything in this thread from people who own and use tablets daily.


I preagreed almost a month ago. 


"BubblePuppy" said:


> I reread the op, I was hoping this thread would be about users experience with the different tablet types. But unfortunately it has deteriorated into I vs them, as all threads of this nature do, and the comments about individual(s) really don't help.
> Perhaps someone with first hand experience with the other new tablets could start posting so this thread will get back on track.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

spartanstew said:


> You don't have to own one to have an opinion on it though - many have experienced tablets in some capacity (i.e. my brother has an ipad I play with occasionally and I played with several tablets at CES). Besides, since most of the good tablets haven't been released yet (cept the Transformer, which one person here has), a thread like that would soon be filled with nothing but ipad talk and it would be equally as difficult to find information about anything else.


:up:

I've had an iPad on "indefinite loan" as long as I need it from my future son-in-law...so I've had the chance to see firsthand how it works on many fronts. I have not filed any review/report from that hands-on experience (at least not yet ).

I also agree with you that the real value in this thread is the sharing of information....be it via linked websites, other reviews, and questions/answers that come from adult conversation on the topic - which includes seeing the pros AND cons of various offerings. Since the results of those activities help people both using and looking to purchase tablets...the sum of all that is of value IMHO. 


RasputinAXP said:


> aww, forgot about me, too. I'm so bleeding edge i nearly bricked my Xoom getting 3.1 onto it early!


I'm very sorry..you're right...my bad.....I neglected to mention you in the list of adopters and reviewers. Your Xoom reports (and update to 3.1) have been interesting, as they seem to reflect a good real-world view on that tablet, as well as the upgrade experience. Thanks.


----------



## klang

hdtvfan0001 said:


> I've had an iPad on "indefinite loan" as long as I need it from my future son-in-law...so I've had the chance to see firsthand how it works on many fronts. I have not filed any review/report from that hands-on experience (at least not yet


What would be the point? You have already given your opinion of the device over and over and over.....:nono2:


----------



## hdtvfan0001

klang said:


> What would be the point? You have already given your opinion of the device over and over and over.....:nono2:


Kinda like the fanboy comments...over and over...


----------



## RasputinAXP

Speaking of 3.1 reports, since I've installed it I've only crashed it once, which is a darned sight better than 3.0.1. 

I managed to do it while connected to a bluetooth keyboard and attempting to install an app from the Amazon app store while connected to two ssh sessions in ConnectBot. Maybe I'll try and duplicate the crash just to see, but overall it's going really well.

One thing I've noticed negatively is that browser reliability drops precipitously once you have 3 or 4 tabs open. I keep it to as few tabs as possible. Otherwise I haven't noticed any other apps force closing on me.


----------



## Chris Blount

I have created the new thread and copied over a couple of posts. If anyone has posted thoughts about their tablet in this thread or others then please point me to the post and I will copy those over as well. 

Thanks.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Thanks Chris


----------



## tcusta00

"hdtvfan0001" said:


> Kinda like the fanboy comments...over and over...


Where? 

Show me one fanboy comment please. Since they're "over and over" it should be easy to pick them out.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Chris Blount said:


> *I have created the new thread *and copied over a couple of posts. If anyone has posted thoughts about their tablet in this thread or others then please point me to the post and I will copy those over as well.
> 
> Thanks.


Thanks Chris - an excellent idea. :up:


----------



## tcusta00

Thought not. I'm on ignore when it comes to backing up baseless accusations but not when it's time to call me a fanboy. 

Thanks for the new thread, Chris. I missed half of those posts! Buried in the noise.


----------



## DarkSkies

I made a few posts about Xoom and issues I had with getting apps to appear in the recent apps list, and how I resolved it, but not sure if they are worth moving....

Edited to Add: Especially since the other thread is specifically for Reviews and Opinions! ("In my opinion, there is a bug... but I figured out a workaround!") :lol:


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> Yeah no kidding. To reduce the noise for people looking for solid information, I was thinking about starting a "Tablet Review" thread. Only people who actually own a tablet would be allowed to post in the thread about their thoughts. No comment or clutter allowed. That can all be done in this thread. Right now it's difficult to find anything in this thread from people who own and use tablets daily.


I had hoped that this thread would be used in that manner, but the lack of folks that actually have a tablet is disappointing. I'd also like to see more comments on the negatives of the tablets, other than the obvious.

For instance, I dropped that Xoom quickly because their just weren't enough apps and in the 14 days I had to return it, I didn't think a few thousand were gonna show up. The Acer I got rid of because it did some things I didn't like, it wouldn't pick up my router in places where the Xoom did, the battery discharged faster than I expected, and the keyboard would just go dormant at times. Restarting the Acer would wake up the keyboard, but from a new device, I didn't think that was a good sign.

I put up a review on Amazon and got flamed, then another brave soul put up a similar revue of his experience with the Acer and things quieted down.

The one question I gotta ask is: What are you comparing the tablet you have (I had hoped that the majority of posters would have tried or would own a tablet and try others) to? I think for comparison purposes, it is logical to establish a baseline. How do you establish a baseline without actually using the things for the purpose you bought them for and then comparing them to another tablet used in the same manner. I appreciate all the links to reviews of tablets, but that's just a review. Hands on use has got to be better.

Rich


----------



## Rich

BudShark said:


> I think thats the rub though. I bought an iPad because of WANT and COULD. I then played with it for about a week - basically like a giant iPhone.
> 
> My thoughts at that point? Gee... this was a waste, maybe I should return it and buy a MacBook Air.
> 
> But then... something happened. I learned to use it as a tablet. I learned it wasn't a giant iPhone. I got the right software tools, I expanded my use to more complex tasks (video editing, note taking, video Podcasts, and yes, e-books(.
> 
> And now? You couldn't take this from me. I'd give you my DVR, my iMac, and just about any other piece of technology before I'd let you take my iPad from me.
> 
> So, I can see how someone who's never had one or borrows someone elses would have a different opinion than someone who has owned one for a month or so.
> 
> I don't know if others have had similar experiences, but I suspect they have.


I've had that same experience. I just wanted a tablet to play with and when I got a chance to get the iPad2 I jumped on it. We've had it in the house for over a week and it's here to stay. Whether I get an Android or not will depend on what future improvements are. I fully expect to keep trying the new ones as they come out and using the iPad2 as a baseline.

Rich


----------



## Rich

wilbur_the_goose said:


> The thing that hurts the table paradigm for me is typing. I type about 80WPM, and I just can't stand to slow down on these tablets. I know a keyboard is available, but when you go there, you end up with a teeny-tiny laptop, and who wants that?


Yup, I type pretty well too and I find myself "hunting and pecking" on the iPads screen keyboard. I looked at the Blue Tooth Apple keyboards, but then you're back to a laptop with a small screen and I've got a 17" laptop already.

Rich


----------



## elaclair

rich584 said:


> Yup, I type pretty well too and I find myself "hunting and pecking" on the iPads screen keyboard. I looked at the Blue Tooth Apple keyboards, but then you're back to a laptop with a small screen and I've got a 17" laptop already.
> 
> Rich


For basic sentences and structure I can zip along pretty quick on my iPad2. Where things get a little muddled is that some of the "less common" characters are not always where I expect them to be and I have to do a little hunting.

I've also discovered the joys of pdfs on my iPad. I now have almost all my work documentation on mine, which makes for some really easy access at the most opportune times....

I initially ordered my iPad2 because it looked like something that would be fun to play with. As it turns out, it's become my second most used piece of technology at work...my iPhone is still number 1, but the gap is starting to narrow even on that.


----------



## BudShark

rich584 said:


> Yup, I type pretty well too and I find myself "hunting and pecking" on the iPads screen keyboard. I looked at the Blue Tooth Apple keyboards, but then you're back to a laptop with a small screen and I've got a 17" laptop already.
> 
> Rich


I *think* a tablet could be used as a workable device in the following scenario (based off iPad2, but probably qualifies for other tablets). This would require iPad iWork suite... not sure of what types of office document applications are available for Android.

Daily Mobile: Used as a tablet, email based and minor document editing. Onscreen keyboard only. "normal tablet"

Laptop replacement Mobile: Bluetooth keyboard, dock stand for putting tablet upright. Some more typing, a bit more document editing.

Full laptop/desktop equivalent replacement (made possible by current gen tablets): Bluetooth keyboard, HDMI monitor. HDMI Display is the monitor, tablet mirrored to display. Bluetooth keyboard for typing, tablet laid flat on table to left or right of keyboard to use as a trackpad. Not sure if Android has a desktop mirror mode for HDMI like iPad2, but assume it does.


----------



## BudShark

elaclair said:


> I've also discovered the joys of pdfs on my iPad. I now have almost all my work documentation on mine, which makes for some really easy access at the most opportune times....


+1,000,000

iBooks is phenomenal for that. That was another game changer - when we figured out the storage for manuals and stuff. I even put frequently referenced docs in there - either save as PDF or scan paper docs and load them into iBooks. Extremely useful for things I always needed or wanted, but were too painful to lug around with me.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

rich584 said:


> Yup, I type pretty well too and I find myself "hunting and pecking" on the iPads screen keyboard. I looked at the Blue Tooth Apple keyboards, but then you're back to a laptop with a small screen and I've got a 17" laptop already.
> 
> Rich


Good points.

Tablets were originally intended to me more "output" devices than "input" devices (browsing, reading, viewing functions mostly). Typing was likely not anticipated to be a major repetitive task, except small amounts during browsing and commands.

As tablets have evolved, input needs have grown, making keyboards as useful as they would be on a laptop. It would seem that the progressive evolution of tablets is following a path that tablets and laptops will meet in the middle somewhere in terms of capabilities, with the primary attraction of tablets over laptops being their mobility, size, and weight advantages.

As you know, some of the latest tablets are almost "hybrid" devices.


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> Yup, I type pretty well too and I find myself "hunting and pecking" on the iPads screen keyboard. I looked at the Blue Tooth Apple keyboards, but then you're back to a laptop with a small screen and I've got a 17" laptop already.
> 
> Rich


I don't know how fast I can type on an actual keyboard but 80 WPM sounds higher than I can achieve. Too many years have transpired since my High School typing classes for me to be able to judge it. 

On the Xoom I've found that when holding it I prefer the "ThumbKey" keyboard that's in the market. It's basically designed to let you two-thumb the device almost like a Blackberry but it duplicates certain letters on each side when in landscape to make it a little faster, it also has pretty good predictive text. I let my wife try it as a comparison to her standard iPad keyboard and she took to it pretty quickly. It's not as good when I have the unit sitting down so then I use the standard keypad or my Bluetooth keyboard when I want to do a lot of typing. There are at least three other keyboards in the market I've not tried long enough to accurately review.


----------



## Steve

For those that haven't tried it yet, I give the iPad Google search app an *A+* for voice recognition, even in a relatively noisy room. Just click the microphone icon atop the search page. I hardly type searches at all now.

I assume there's also a Honeycomb version and that it works equally well. (I can't imagine it working better. )


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I don't know how fast I can type on an actual keyboard but 80 WPM sounds higher than I can achieve. Too many years have transpired since my High School typing classes for me to be able to judge it.
> 
> On the Xoom I've found that when holding it I prefer the "ThumbKey" keyboard that's in the market. It's basically designed to let you two-thumb the device almost like a Blackberry but it duplicates certain letters on each side when in landscape to make it a little faster, it also has pretty good predictive text. I let my wife try it as a comparison to her standard iPad keyboard and she took to it pretty quickly. It's not as good when I have the unit sitting down so then I use the standard keypad or my Bluetooth keyboard when I want to do a lot of typing. There are at least three other keyboards in the market I've not tried long enough to accurately review.


You mentioned that keyboard in another post and I did want to try it, but I got rid of the Xoom before I had a chance to. With no offense meant, I think you've found more ways to utilize your Xoom for work related tasks than most people would with a tablet. I don't work, so I haven't been looking at tablets in the same manner you do. I think you're a bit of an "anomaly" compared to most folks who use tablets.

I keep asking my wife what she'd do with a tablet at work and her replies always center around taking the tablet to meetings. Being an executive, she spends her days in meetings. And a lot of the folks at those meetings are using tablets these days. For regular work, she would prefer her desktop/laptop docking station. I can understand that, her desktop and accompanying laptop are much more powerful than any tablet on the market today.

When I started this thread one of the things I was most interested in was what people use them for. You seem to have really pushed the boundaries on what you do with yours.

I wish I could give you an iPad and see what you would do with that, using it as you do the Xoom. Then, we'd get a really good comparison.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> For those that haven't tried it yet, I give the iPad Google search app an *A+* for voice recognition, even in a relatively noisy room. Just click the microphone icon atop the search page. I hardly type searches at all now.
> 
> I assume there's also a Honeycomb version and that it works equally well. (I can't imagine it working better. )


Ah, I can make that comparison. iPad vs Xoom. Pretty much the same and they both do it really well, I think.

I've got contractors in the house banging away at my bathrooms and I can still get my iPad to recognize the words I speak to it. I was impressed by the Xooms ability to recognize speech and I'd be surprised if it didn't work as well in the same environment.

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> For those that haven't tried it yet, I give the iPad Google search app an *A+* for voice recognition, even in a relatively noisy room. Just click the microphone icon atop the search page. I hardly type searches at all now.
> 
> I assume there's also a Honeycomb version and that it works equally well. (I can't imagine it working better. )


I haven't tried it on the iPad but I am incredibly impressed with it on the Xoom, it works much better than on my Droid - and that works pretty well! I think they must have put some really good audio circuitry on the input side of both devices.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> I haven't tried it on the iPad but I am incredibly impressed with it on the Xoom, it works much better than on my Droid - and that works pretty well! I think they must have put some really good audio circuitry on the input side of both devices.


What I wonder is if the recognition is taking place inside the tablet, or if an audio file is being captured and sent to Google for processing on some voice recognizing supercomputer.


----------



## bobukcat

rich584 said:


> You mentioned that keyboard in another post and I did want to try it, but I got rid of the Xoom before I had a chance to. With no offense meant, I think you've found more ways to utilize your Xoom for work related tasks than most people would with a tablet. I don't work, so I haven't been looking at tablets in the same manner you do. I think you're a bit of an "anomaly" compared to most folks who use tablets.
> 
> I keep asking my wife what she'd do with a tablet at work and her replies always center around taking the tablet to meetings. Being an executive, she spends her days in meetings. And a lot of the folks at those meetings are using tablets these days. For regular work, she would prefer her desktop/laptop docking station. I can understand that, her desktop and accompanying laptop are much more powerful than any tablet on the market today.
> 
> When I started this thread one of the things I was most interested in was what people use them for. You seem to have really pushed the boundaries on what you do with yours.
> 
> I wish I could give you an iPad and see what you would do with that, using it as you do the Xoom. Then, we'd get a really good comparison.
> 
> Rich


Well, I didn't really intend to end up using it for work but it's sitting here and keep thinking "I could do this, or that with it!" Working from home I still do the vast majority of my work on a laptop docking station, and in the more complex parts of my job at customer sites I have to have a laptop. But when I just go to customer meetings or do presentations to customers I now find my Xoom is just faster (no boot time) and easier to take with me. Part of my job sometimes includes configuring bar code scanners by scanning programming codes from a PDF and the imagers will read off my Xoom screen much faster than the laptop.

My wife uses her iPad for work all the time, in fact she rarely even takes her laptop with her on business trips any more (she does use the keyboard dock). The company she works for has a lot of iPad / iPhone dedicated apps for net meetings, etc. so it fits into her corporate environment very well. She loves the thing.


----------



## spartanstew

Chris Blount said:


> I have created the new thread and copied over a couple of posts. If anyone has posted thoughts about their tablet in this thread or others then please point me to the post and I will copy those over as well.
> 
> Thanks.


Seems pointless.

*Tablet Reviews and Opinions (non discussion)*

What's the difference between giving an opinion on a tablet and discussing a tablet?

Plus, it's a locked thread with 4 posts in it. It's just going to be a thread where certain posts from this thread will be copied to that one?

What about all the posts in this thread with links to reviews? Are those going to be moved to? Are there really members that only want to see those 4 posts over the last month and not any of the other information on tablets that's been posted here? I doubt it, it's just adding to the clutter via duplication. The solution has complicated the issue, not simplified it.

There's a couple of threads in this section dedicated to the ipad, are those posts/threads going to be moved to that thread too (the ipad is a tablet, I believe)? There's also a thread on the Motorola Xoom. Are those posts being moved? If not, why not?

Seems it would be much simpler (and quicker) to just go through this thread and delete some of the crap and tell people not to post if they're not specifically talking about a tablet (a review, a link, a question, a comment, etc.) and are just talking about bull**** with another member.

Look at the six or seven posts directly above this one. That's not relevant information that anyone interested in a tablet would want to read? Of course it is, so who's just looking at the locked 4 post thread? Nobody.


----------



## Chris Blount

I'm sorry you feel that way. I created that thread for everyone. If anyone wan't their review recognized, they only need to contact me. 

In regards to "crap". One man's crap is another man's gold. If we start deleting "crap" posts, that creates a whole other set of problems. Been there, done that.

As with anything else, you can always just not read the thread.


----------



## spartanstew

Chris Blount said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way. I created that thread for everyone. If anyone wan't their review recognized, they only need to contact me.


As I said, just more complicated.



Chris Blount said:


> In regards to "crap". One man's crap is another man's gold. If we start deleting "crap" posts, that creates a whole other set of problems. Been there, done that.


I'm pretty sure we would all agree on what crap posts are in this thread. If it's not pertaining to tablets (a review, a link, a question, a thought), it's crap.



Chris Blount said:


> As with anything else, you can always just not read the thread.


Agreed, and I'm sure I'll be joined by most. I can't imagine anyone reading the other thread, since everything in it is also posted here (along with a lot of other pertinent information) - who would want to read the same posts twice?

That's exactly the point I was trying to make - the other thread is a waste of time. But, it's not my time that's being wasted, so have at it, I guess.


----------



## houskamp

spartanstew said:


> I'm pretty sure we would all agree on what crap posts are in this thread. If it's not pertaining to tablets (a review, a link, a question, a thought), it's crap.


 case in point......................


----------



## Doug Brott

OK .. Fresh start .. <Mod Hat On>

This thread has taken a turn in the wrong direction. For those of you that may be missing posts, I basically removed every post made in the last 2 hours. This is not something I would normally do, nor something I've done in a VERY long time. I don't like to delete posts because voices should be heard.

However, I must remind everyone that this forum has rules. We need to maintain a some level of decorum. So please, be respectful of each other regardless of where you stand.

Thank you all .. Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> What I wonder is if the recognition is taking place inside the tablet, or if an audio file is being captured and sent to Google for processing on some voice recognizing supercomputer.


I believe that for voice search it's just done locally because I don't think it asks you if it's okay for Google to collect data for analysis / improvement - but I could be wrong. For the more complex voice input stuff and for things like text transcripts of your Google Voice VM messages it asks if Google can use those to enhance their results.


----------



## Steve

Not a detailed review, but a few comments from one of the self-admitted "lucky slobs" who got a free Sammy at the Google conference last week.

http://www.betanews.com/article/An-honest-appraisal-of-Samsungs-Galaxy-Tab-101/1305759282


----------



## RasputinAXP

bobukcat said:


> I believe that for voice search it's just done locally because I don't think it asks you if it's okay for Google to collect data for analysis / improvement - but I could be wrong. For the more complex voice input stuff and for things like text transcripts of your Google Voice VM messages it asks if Google can use those to enhance their results.


They ask you that when you first set up the device. If you don't have a network connection it doesn't translate the voice search.

On Android devices, the voice search functions are built into the OS and can be used for speech to text in addition to voice search.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Well, I didn't really intend to end up using it for work but it's sitting here and keep thinking "I could do this, or that with it!" Working from home I still do the vast majority of my work on a laptop docking station, and in the more complex parts of my job at customer sites I have to have a laptop. But when I just go to customer meetings or do presentations to customers I now find my Xoom is just faster (no boot time) and easier to take with me. Part of my job sometimes includes configuring bar code scanners by scanning programming codes from a PDF and the imagers will read off my Xoom screen much faster than the laptop.
> 
> My wife uses her iPad for work all the time, in fact she rarely even takes her laptop with her on business trips any more (she does use the keyboard dock). The company she works for has a lot of iPad / iPhone dedicated apps for net meetings, etc. so it fits into her corporate environment very well. She loves the thing.


And all I do is play backgammon and do research on my iPad for crossword puzzles. And I still think it was $500 well spent.

I asked the wife again about the tablets at work and she said everyone is buying iPads. I think the upper tier of executives must have been given them, just as my wife gets her iPhones. Once the boss has something, everyone underneath has to have one.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Not a detailed review, but a few comments from one of the self-admitted "lucky slobs" who got a free Sammy at the Google conference last week.
> 
> http://www.betanews.com/article/An-honest-appraisal-of-Samsungs-Galaxy-Tab-101/1305759282


That was an interesting revue. I certainly agree with his views on tablets in general. Didn't it seem as if he was saying that Samsung managed to nearly duplicate an iPad? I'm gonna buy one of them as soon as they are released. Should be interesting, now that I've got something to compare it to.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> [...] Didn't it seem as if he was saying that Samsung managed to nearly duplicate an iPad?


Yup. Funny how similar the proprietary connectors are too.  But it's like I mentioned earlier... we're seeing that the only two companies that had _significant_ tablet user feedback in 2010 both designed second gen tablets that were first and foremost thin and light, yet still able to deliver 10 hours of battery life.

Will be interesting to see how Sammy prices this thing, and how it sells vs. the competing Honeycomb tablets with replaceable batteries, memory slots, USB ports, etc.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Yup. Funny how similar the proprietary connectors are too.  But it's like I mentioned earlier... we're seeing that the only two companies that had _significant_ tablet user feedback in 2010 both designed second gen tablets that were first and foremost thin and light, yet still able to deliver 10 hours of battery life.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how Sammy prices this thing, and how it sells vs. the competing Honeycomb tablets with replaceable batteries, memory slots, USB ports, etc.


Hope I can get one. I see Samsung lemmings in my future...:lol:

Rich


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> Not a detailed review, but a few comments from one of the self-admitted "lucky slobs" who got a free Sammy at the Google conference last week.
> 
> http://www.betanews.com/article/An-honest-appraisal-of-Samsungs-Galaxy-Tab-101/1305759282


The one thing that's not mentioned is that the tablets that were given away at I/O are Stock Android Honeycomb with no Samsung UI on top of it but all reports are that the ones we'll be able to buy will have some version of TouchWiz on top of Honeycomb. That could be a good thing or a bad thing, I think most I've read would say it's a bad thing.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> The one thing that's not mentioned is that the tablets that were given away at I/O are Stock Android Honeycomb with no Samsung UI on top of it but all reports are that the ones we'll be able to buy will have some version of TouchWiz on top of Honeycomb. That could be a good thing or a bad thing, I think most I've read would say it's a bad thing.


I thought all Honeycomb tabs were going to have the stock UI, because Google isn't releasing any 3.x source code until Ice Cream Sandwich is out. Did I misunderstand that? Is the Xoom UI a custom one? TIA.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I thought all Honeycomb tabs were going to have the stock UI, because Google isn't releasing any 3.x source code until Ice Cream Sandwich is out. Did I misunderstand that? Is the Xoom UI a custom one? TIA.


I don't have any evidence that it will definitely have TouchWiz on it (who else thinks that's a horrible name for a UI??) but this video indicates it will and Kellen is usually "in the know". (There are some other pretty good comparisons to the Xoom in this limited video as well)

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/05/1...ition-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-from-google-io/

Google did release the Honeycomb source code to a select number of OEMs but did not publish it to the masses as they have with the other Android builds, that's the difference. But an OEM pretty much has to have access to it to get it working on their specific hardware. I have no idea if they put conditions in that the UI couldn't be altered in certain ways, etc. I guess we'll see what the actual retail version of the Samsung Tab 10.1 looks like when it hits stores.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I thought all Honeycomb tabs were going to have the stock UI, because Google isn't releasing any 3.x source code until Ice Cream Sandwich is out. Did I misunderstand that? Is the Xoom UI a custom one? TIA.


The Xoom is 100% complete stock Honeycomb, no added Widgets, not UI changes, nothing but pure Google goodness. :up:


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> http://www.droid-life.com/2011/05/1...ition-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-from-google-io/


Great video link. Thanks for sharing. I like when he said it was "eerily" like the iPad! :lol:

Looks like the Xoom may have the Galaxy beat on touch screen response, but the Galaxy may have the Xoom beat on screen brightness and contrast.

We know Galaxy wins on thickness and weight. I doubt anyone's gonna come out with a thinner or lighter 10.1" display than Samsung's, but I guess you should never say never.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> Looks like the Xoom may have the Galaxy beat on touch screen response, but the Galaxy may have the Xoom beat on screen brightness and contrast.


I look forward to seeing one in person when they release to compare the screens. In the video there is no doubt the Sammy seems to have more "pop" to it but if it's like their phone displays I think the colors are over-exaggerated to the point of being fake looking. Some people really love them but I've not been as big a fan of it.


----------



## TBlazer07

rich584 said:


> Hope I can get one. I see Samsung lemmings in my future...:lol:
> 
> Rich


 If money is no object they are all over eBay.


----------



## TBlazer07

Best Buy Online has the ASUS TRANSFORMER in stock. Just ordered one to "evaluate." Hopefully Amazon will get them before my "evaluation" period runs out because there is no tax or shipping there but BB gets both.


----------



## jponte55

Hi all, 
Couldn't help but notice this thread while checking in on my favorite DBS. I got an iPad at launch in 2010. Immediately loved the form factor, instant on and the apps...oh the apps. Couldn't help myself when the iPad 2 came out and picked up that as well. I think the design is much better on the 2nd Gen. I usually find myself using gadgets less and less over time as my next obsession takes over. That didn't happen with tablets, especially when the garageband app came out. Pumping out polished amateur music on a tablet, who would have thought? Tablets definitely found a place in my life. I find having a very powerful desktop for gaming and content creation and tablets for portability is the ideal setup for me. 

Anyway, I didn't come here to tell you what you've already probably read hundreds of times. Well yesterday I got a 3G Xoom given to me from work. Suddenly my house is crowded with tablets and I'm the only one who uses them regularly. I've been using the Xoom constantly in place of the iPad for a good amount of time now. Here are a couple things I noticed between the two devices.

Google services are very powerful on a PC when utilized only in the web browser. When they are tied into the OS and data is leveraged across apps it is a revelation. Google makes the OS part of the experience by utilizing widgets and shortcuts. While I find widgets/gadgets redundant in a desktop OS and inefficient in a phone OS, they were made for tablets. In comparison iOS is a blank slate that's sole purpose is to get users from point A to point B. Apple wants to make it as simple and efficient as possible to get into your applications. In iOS the applications are what defines the experience. The best analogy for iOS is to a blank canvas, the SDK to the paint and brushes and the applications being the resulting painting. No doubt this comes down to personal taste. I enjoyed both approaches.

You don't realize how smooth iOS is until you use another OS with the same form factor. There is absolutely no noticeable latency or lag on the iPads that I have used. The physics are flawless and consistent accross apps, even those from a 3rd party. Honeycomb, when I first picked it up, didn't seem to feel much different from iOS. But when going back and using the iPad it was night and day. Not that the Xoom was bad, its just up against the best in the business when it comes to polish.

Those are the two things that really stood out to me. If you've been following the tablet market at all you know there are many more but they weren't as significant to me. I really do like having both though...best of both worlds


----------



## Chris Blount

jponte55 said:


> Hi all,
> Couldn't help but notice this thread while checking in on my favorite DBS. I got an iPad at launch in 2010. Immediately loved the form factor, instant on and the apps...oh the apps. Couldn't help myself when the iPad 2 came out and picked up that as well. I think the design is much better on the 2nd Gen. I usually find myself using gadgets less and less over time as my next obsession takes over. That didn't happen with tablets, especially when the garageband app came out. Pumping out polished amateur music on a tablet, who would have thought? Tablets definitely found a place in my life. I find having a very powerful desktop for gaming and content creation and tablets for portability is the ideal setup for me.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't come here to tell you what you've already probably read hundreds of times. Well yesterday I got a 3G Xoom given to me from work. Suddenly my house is crowded with tablets and I'm the only one who uses them regularly. I've been using the Xoom constantly in place of the iPad for a good amount of time now. Here are a couple things I noticed between the two devices.
> 
> Google services are very powerful on a PC when utilized only in the web browser. When they are tied into the OS and data is leveraged across apps it is a revelation. Google makes the OS part of the experience by utilizing widgets and shortcuts. While I find widgets/gadgets redundant in a desktop OS and inefficient in a phone OS, they were made for tablets. In comparison iOS is a blank slate that's sole purpose is to get users from point A to point B. Apple wants to make it as simple and efficient as possible to get into your applications. In iOS the applications are what defines the experience. The best analogy for iOS is to a blank canvas, the SDK to the paint and brushes and the applications being the resulting painting. No doubt this comes down to personal taste. I enjoyed both approaches.
> 
> You don't realize how smooth iOS is until you use another OS with the same form factor. There is absolutely no noticeable latency or lag on the iPads that I have used. The physics are flawless and consistent accross apps, even those from a 3rd party. Honeycomb, when I first picked it up, didn't seem to feel much different from iOS. But when going back and using the iPad it was night and day. Not that the Xoom was bad, its just up against the best in the business when it comes to polish.
> 
> Those are the two things that really stood out to me. If you've been following the tablet market at all you know there are many more but they weren't as significant to me. I really do like having both though...best of both worlds


Good post! Copied to this thread.


----------



## raott

For those interested. I think there must have been a large shipment of the Asus Transformer to come in as my nowinstock.net alert has been going of alot since yesterday, including bestbuy and walmart now having inventory.


----------



## hdtvfan0001

Interesting use of "mobile technology"....

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/19/nielsen-51-of-ipad-use-is-in-bed-or-in-front-of-the-tv/

For those thinking about getting an iPad2 some time soon...inventories might be thinner in the near future because of this...

http://www.chiphazard.com/2011/05/21/ipad-2-plant-explosion-leaves-2-dead-and-16-injured-video/

Something new to keep your tablet clean...including the Smartcover...

http://isource.com/2011/05/20/quick-tips-cleaning-your-ipads-smart-cover-and-back-cover-and-saving-money/

Another new Tablet being released at Best Buy today:

http://www.primeinspiration.com/gadgets/android/news/552-htc-flyer-lands-on-best-buy-from-may-22nd-at-500.html

Android Honeycomb Has Hidden Gingerbread Interface:

More here...

http://www.primeinspiration.com/gadgets/android/news/556-android-honeycomb-has-hidden-gingerbread-interface.html

Comparison with photos, hands-on timings, video, and other information:

http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/compared-samsung-galaxy-tab-101-motorola-xoom-20110517/


----------



## CCarncross

When asked by the Luddites at work, I just tell them to "run it through the dishwasher, it'll be fine"

:lol:


----------



## Groundhog45

Here's a good one:

Neurologists: Apple is like a religion

:lol:


----------



## Laxguy

Groundhog45 said:


> Here's a good one:
> 
> :lol:


Don' be no hatah!:nono2:


----------



## Steve

The Firefox 5 for Android beta is out. Among other devices, Xoom and Galaxy tabs are supported.

It will purportedly sync prefs and bookmarks with FF on other platforms. No Flash support ATM, if that's your thing. I couldn't find any indication if it was in the works, or not.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Steve said:


> The Firefox 5 for Android beta is out. Among other devices, Xoom and Galaxy tabs are supported.
> 
> It will purportedly sync prefs and bookmarks with FF on other platforms. No Flash support ATM, if that's your thing. I couldn't find any indication if it was in the works, or not.


Not purportedly. Firefox Sync's been in the software for a while.


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> Not purportedly. Firefox Sync's been in the software for a while.


Wasn't sure if Honeycomb syncing was out there. Sounds like it is! :up:


----------



## Steve

PCMag's HTC Flyer review:

*Pros:*
Fast performance. Clear, bright screen. Excellent pen input. Sense UI improves on Gingerbread OS. HTC's extra apps are solid.

*Cons:*
Outdated, non-tablet-specific version of Android. Google Talk video chat isn't supported in Gingerbread. Slow browser performance. Cluttered default layout. Cameras are only mediocre.

*Bottom Line:*
For artists and hand-writers, the HTC Flyer is a solid tablet thanks to its well-implemented pen-specific features. But if you're not interested in pen input, Android tablets with Google's latest tablet-specific Honeycomb OS are a better bet.

[*more*]


----------



## Doug Brott

Microsoft Making progress ... [Source]


> Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) will preview its Windows operating system designed for tablet computers in demonstrations planned for next week, according to three people with knowledge of the company's plans.
> 
> The company will showcase the software's touch-screen interface running on hardware with an Nvidia Corp. (NVDA) Tegra chip, said the people, who declined to be identified because the plans are confidential.


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> Microsoft Making progress ... [Source]


If and when Microsoft finally ships an OS _originally conceived_ for a touch screen, it will be interesting to see if that product fares any better vs. iPads and Honeycomb tabs than Win Phone 7 is currently faring vs. iOS and Droid smart phones.

I attribute Microsoft's diminutive smartphone market share to their late start, not to any WP7 inferiority to competing operating systems, and now we're seeing it again with tablets. HP will face a similar "time to marketplace" hurdle, when they finally start shipping webOS devices later this year. Just my .02.


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> I attribute Microsoft's diminutive smartphone market share to their late start, not to any WP7 inferiority to competing operating systems


Their lateness to the game and how truly awful WinMo was compared to just about anything else have been them in a very deep whole that I don't think even Nokia can get them out of with regards to WP7.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> Their lateness to the game and how truly awful WinMo was compared to just about anything else have been them in a very deep whole that I don't think even Nokia can get them out of with regards to WP7.


It's funny. Had Microsoft purchased Palm three-four years ago and properly deployed and marketed webOS, they could conceivably be the company Apple and Google is chasing, instead of the reverse. By all accounts I've read, it's a superb touch screen OS that rivals iOS and Android in capability and usability.

Not only that, but by allowing HP to acquire Palm, one of their top customers is now a competitor as well!


----------



## TBlazer07

Just got an Asus Transformer from Newegg. First impression is that I like the widescreen physical format a LOT better than the Square Fruit Tablet. Square seems so 90's. 

Screen is bright and clear (and a major fingerprint magnet). Don't like the "feel" holding it in it's nude condition. The back of it feels weird. I got one of the Asus (neoprene?) sleeves and that made it 500% better.

Browser is great, haven't had problems with any website in "PC" mode.

Did have a strange glitch after charging. I used it for 10 minutes, put it into "sleep" mode, came back a couple hours later and the touch screen wouldn't respond. After about 6 power cycles it came back and has been fine since.

I prefer the browser version of DBStalk over the "app" because it is what I am used to for many years and with the Chrome browser it's virtually identical to using it on my 12" laptop.

Scrolling is clean and fast and the built in app to access network multimedia stuff & local PC's is great.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Congratulations!
I second your statement about the regular browser, especially since the dbstalk app doesn't let me see the Cutting Edge Forum.


----------



## dpeters11

"FHSPSU67" said:


> Congratulations!
> I second your statement about the regular browser, especially since the dbstalk app doesn't let me see the Cutting Edge Forum.


I see it fine on the iPad version.


----------



## Steve

dpeters11 said:


> I see it fine on the iPad version.


Ditto. Is it possible you're not logged in, Fred?

That said, I prefer using the iPad browser for DBSTalk as well. I prefer the app when I'm using my iPod's smaller screen, tho.


----------



## dpeters11

The only thing I don't like about the app, it's harder to put a link to a thread in a post. I have to open the thread I'm referencing in safari to copy the address. I had to do this earlier to refer someone to the 963 remote sequence for DirecTV.


----------



## TBlazer07

FHSPSU67 said:


> Congratulations!
> I second your statement about the regular browser, especially since the dbstalk app doesn't let me see the Cutting Edge Forum.


No problem with the app & ce on the Asus.

However using the browser on (only) this forum there are typing delays. No problem on other fori.


----------



## spartanstew

I'm bummed. Amazon had the Transformer today for $399 shipped, but they sold out in under an hour.


----------



## bobnielsen

FHSPSU67 said:


> Congratulations!
> I second your statement about the regular browser, especially since the dbstalk app doesn't let me see the Cutting Edge Forum.


You need to click on Cutting Edge Information before you can see the Cutting Edge forum itself.


----------



## TBlazer07

spartanstew said:


> I'm bummed. Amazon had the Transformer today for $399 shipped, but they sold out in under an hour.


Sign up for www.nowinstock.net. That's how I got mine from Newgg. You can select specific stores to watch or all stores. These seem to be coming in quite fast now, I think they will be very easy to get in another week or 2.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> However using the browser on (only) this forum there are typing delays. No problem on other fori.


IIRC, think it was Fred who discovered the Dolphin HD browser took care of the typing delay issue. There was also some speculation that Honeycomb 3.1 might fix it in the Google browser, but I never saw any reports on that. Is that the version you're on?


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> IIRC, think it was Fred who discovered the Dolphin HD browser took care of the typing delay issue. There was also some speculation that Honeycomb 3.1 might fix it in the Google browser. Is that the version you're on?


 I'm on 3.01 I believe. 3.1 for the Asus is reported to be coming out early in June. I'll try Dolphin and see if it makes a difference. Thanks.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Steve said:


> IIRC, think it was Fred who discovered the Dolphin HD browser took care of the typing delay issue. There was also some speculation that Honeycomb 3.1 might fix it in the Google browser, but I never saw any reports on that. Is that the version you're on?


True, but I found other problems with DolphinHD, so I'm back on the stock browser. I've heard that 3.1 "should" fix the laggy typing problem.


----------



## TBlazer07

Testing dolphin

There is still lag with Dolphin. I see no difference. 1234567. Maybe a tiny bit better.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> Testing dolphin
> 
> There is still lag with Dolphin. I see no difference. 1234567. Maybe a tiny bit better.


I can tell you that I was able to read this post faster than your last one.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Steve said:


> Ditto. Is it possible you're not logged in, Fred.


I believe that is the problem, but I don't see anywhere to log in.


----------



## Steve

"FHSPSU67" said:


> I believe that is the problem, but I don't see anywhere to log in.


Is there a Profile button? That's where I found it on the iOS app, IIRC.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Steve said:


> Is there a Profile button? That's where I found it on the iOS app, IIRC.


Nope, nothing like that at all.


----------



## spartanstew

TBlazer07 said:


> Sign up for www.nowinstock.net. That's how I got mine from Newgg. You can select specific stores to watch or all stores. These seem to be coming in quite fast now, I think they will be very easy to get in another week or 2.


I'm not necessarily concerned with the in-stock part, more with the price part. Isn't $399 shipped a good price? What did you pay for yours?


----------



## TBlazer07

spartanstew said:


> I'm not necessarily concerned with the in-stock part, more with the price part. Isn't $399 shipped a good price? What did you pay for yours?


 $399 is list price which is what I paid for mine (+$11 shipping).

Sears/Kmart has (had?) it for $387 (mail order) but you have to pay sales tax. I would have preferred Amazon for the free shipping, no tax and primarily their return policy. Newegg takes no returns.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> I can tell you that I was able to read this post faster than your last one.


 !rolling!rolling!rolling


----------



## Bardman

Is it worth it to spring the extra $100 for 32Gb vs 16Gb? I plan to put movies on microSD card to watch on plane trips


----------



## bobukcat

FHSPSU67 said:


> True, but I found other problems with DolphinHD, so I'm back on the stock browser. I've heard that 3.1 "should" fix the laggy typing problem.


3.1 has the same issue on my Xoom tablet, so I wouldn't be too confident it will fix it on the Xformer.


----------



## bobukcat

FHSPSU67 said:


> Nope, nothing like that at all.


In the DBSTalk application press the menu soft key (farthest one to the right) and you should have a pop-up with options to Refresh, Mark All Read, Search, Login (or Logout) and Settings. Once you are logged in you should have a row of "buttons" along the bottom and Profile is the 3rd to last one from the right. I'm not a CE'r so I can't help you with that part but the Profile button is definitely there on all my Android devices.


----------



## spartanstew

TBlazer07 said:


> $399 is list price which is what I paid for mine (+$11 shipping).
> 
> Sears/Kmart has (had?) it for $387 (mail order) but you have to pay sales tax. I would have preferred Amazon for the free shipping, no tax and primarily their return policy. Newegg takes no returns.


Ah, for some reason I thought it was $499


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> Ah, for some reason I thought it was $499


Do they have two models? 16gb $399, 32gb $499?


----------



## FHSPSU67

bobukcat said:


> In the DBSTalk application press the menu soft key (farthest one to the right) and you should have a pop-up with options to Refresh, Mark All Read, Search, Login (or Logout) and Settings. Once you are logged in you should have a row of "buttons" along the bottom and Profile is the 3rd to last one from the right. I'm not a CE'r so I can't help you with that part but the Profile button is definitely there on all my Android devices.


Thank You bobucat! That worked


----------



## TBlazer07

spartanstew said:


> Ah, for some reason I thought it was $499


16gig $399
32gig $499

The $399 price point is one of the reasons it's so in demand.

Also has it's own Micro-SD slot so you can add another ??GIGs cheaper. Also if you plan on rooting it you'll be better off with the separate SD for extra storage anyway for ROM backups.

Supposedly 3.1 is due out in a couple days. The pre-release file has been leaked and those who have loaded it says it has a lot of fixes including the keyboard delay.


----------



## TBlazer07

1234567
Qwertyuiop

Just updated rhe Asus to 3.1 via root and the delay is still noticeable. MAYBE a llttle better but still annoying.


----------



## TBlazer07

Amazon has had the Asus Transformer 32GIG ($499) model in stock for 48hrs straight, Guess they are becoming widely available:

http://www.amazon.com/Transformer-T...8JT8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1306756378&sr=8-3


----------



## Steve

In case you missed, from PCMag.com

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/264947/apple-ipad-alternatives-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly

What I found notable was they rated the Nook Color a 4 out of 5.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> In case you missed, from PCMag.com
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/264947/apple-ipad-alternatives-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly
> 
> What I found notable was they rated the Nook Color a 4 out of 5.


Nook color is great for the price but it was still a hack to make it a tablet and then it always thought it was a phone with no BT and no GPS and no signal.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> Nook color is great for the price but it was still a hack to make it a tablet [...]


It's actually a bona fide tablet now, tho, isn't it? Thanks to to the recent Froyo and Flash updates, and access to app stores?


----------



## FHSPSU67

Purchased both the paperback and ebook versions,and for a new Android tablet owner totally unfamiliar with the OS and chrome-like browser, this is great.
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781449301750/


----------



## dpeters11

"Steve" said:


> It's actually a bona fide tablet now, tho, isn't it? Thanks to to the recent Froyo and Flash updates, and access to app stores?


Except you can't install any app from the Google App store, or Amazon's, only apps that B&N allows?


----------



## Steve

dpeters11 said:


> Except you can't install any app from the Google App store, or Amazon's, only apps that B&N allows?


Right you are. According to cnet, B&N is hand-picking which apps are available.


----------



## dpeters11

And who knows, in the future, it may be Liberty Media making the decisions. Don't know if that's better or worse, but i'd prefer having complete access, without rooting.


----------



## bobnielsen

"dpeters11" said:


> Except you can't install any app from the Google App store, or Amazon's, only apps that B&N allows?


That's what rooting is for 

Or an alternate firmware installation. I'm running CyanogenMod 7 on my nook color.


----------



## dpeters11

"bobnielsen" said:


> That's what rooting is for
> 
> Or an alternate firmware installation.


I don't think you should have to do that though. If companies keep doing this, and consumers just live with it, then the controls will just get tighter.

This isn't the same as jail breaking an iPhone to get unapproved iOS apps. This is having to jailbreak to get apps every other android device on the same software version has access to.


----------



## FHSPSU67

I'm typing this to say that browser typing lag on the ASUS transformer is much improved (not perfect) since d/l'g 3.1
Note: This is "before" the keyboard update.


----------



## TBlazer07

FHSPSU67 said:


> I'm typing this to say that browser typing lag on the ASUS transformer is much improved (not perfect) since d/l'g 3.1
> Note: This is "before" the keyboard update.


 Maybe it is somewhat improved, but I still find it terribly annoying. It seems from what I have been reading to be due to Java.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Due to Java? The entire operating system is a Java interpreter (Dalvik), so I don't know where that idea would come from.


----------



## TBlazer07

RasputinAXP said:


> Due to Java? The entire operating system is a Java interpreter (Dalvik), so I don't know where that idea would come from.


 :lol: Then I guess what I read was right! :lol: That shows how much (little) I know about the O/S itself.


----------



## RasputinAXP

except I don't really have typing lag on the Xoom, so I could chalk it up to hardware. What's the Asus got in it?


----------



## Steve

Impressive Win 8 preview from Microsoft released yesterday, IMHO. I wonder how long before we'll actually see one at Best Buy? :scratchin

[YOUTUBEHD]p92QfWOw88I[/YOUTUBEHD]


----------



## klang

CNET is speculating that Win 8 won't be out until 2012. For the tablet market I think they are going to be too late unless Microsoft comes up with something really compelling.


----------



## Chris Blount

I personally am not a big fan of the tile system. The interface seems too bulky and cluttered. Also a touch interface on a desktop or laptop doesn't appeal to me either. My arms would get tired.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> [...] For the tablet market I think they are going to be too late unless Microsoft comes up with something really compelling.


I believe the video above is the tablet UI. If it was here today, my guess is it would be competitive. By the time it sees the light of day, tho, iOS will probably be at v6, and Droid at v4 or v5, and who knows where those OS's are headed? :shrug:

I'm guessing Q1/12 at the earliest for Win8 tabs, but I'll bet there's a lot of pressure on Microsoft from h/w manufacturers to get _something_ out the door by Q4/11, because I'm pretty sure this is gonna run just fine on the hardware being developed for Honeycomb tabs. Not sure if delivering this OS that early is possible, tho.


----------



## bobnielsen

"Steve" said:


> I believe the video above is the tablet UI. If it was here today, my guess is it would be competitive. By the time it sees the light of day, tho, iOS will probably be at v6, and Droid at v4 or v5, and who knows where those OS's are headed? :shrug:
> 
> I'm guessing Q1/12 at the earliest for Win8 tabs, but I'll bet there's a lot of pressure on Microsoft from h/w manufacturers to get something out the door by Q4/11, because I'm pretty sure this is gonna run just fine on the hardware being developed for Honeycomb tabs. Not sure if delivering this OS that early is possible, tho.


Hmm--flashing Win8 to an Android tablet with Clockwork Recovery, that's something to ponder....

Sent from my Nook Color (CM7) using DBSTalk


----------



## TBlazer07

RasputinAXP said:


> except I don't really have typing lag on the Xoom, so I could chalk it up to hardware. What's the Asus got in it?


http://gadgetian.com/9262/asus-eee-pad-transformer-specs-price/


----------



## Doug Brott

Found an interesting article today (well heard it on the radio):
Source (audio available)


> Are tablet makers, who previously wanted to compete with Apple and its iPad, already walking away from the fight?
> 
> Research from an analyst at J.P. Morgan looking at the early competitors of the iPad is saying a lot of the other tablets are cutting back on plans to build tablets in the near future by about 10 percent.


This is certainly not a good sign unless you're Apple - it may not even bee good news for Apple in the long run.


----------



## Laxguy

Doug Brott said:


> Found an interesting article today (well heard it on the radio):
> Source (audio available)
> 
> This is certainly not a good sign unless you're Apple - it may not even bee good news for Apple in the long run.


OTOH, it _could be _good-ish news for all: It _might be_ that without some cutbacks in production plans, there'd be vast over supplies, not good for any of 'em.


----------



## Steve

Doug Brott said:


> Found an interesting article today (well heard it on the radio):
> Source (audio available)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are tablet makers, who previously wanted to compete with Apple and its iPad, already walking away from the fight?
> 
> Research from an analyst at J.P. Morgan looking at the early competitors of the iPad is saying a lot of the other tablets are cutting back on plans to build tablets in the near future by about 10 percent.
Click to expand...

Not surprising. I read here that Droid tablet manufacturers were working with 2%-3% margins, as opposed to 10%-15% for Droid phones. And if Microsoft prevails with their lawsuits against Droid hardware manufacturers, those margins will get even slimmer. HTC now pays Microsoft $5 for every phone they sell, and Microsoft is reportedly looking for up to $12.50 per phone from other manufacturers. Who know how much they will seek for Android tablets, assuming they prevail in the courts?

If the screen is the most expensive component, it wouldn't surprise me if Samsung (the iPad's screen manufacturer, if I'm not mistaken) is the only hardware manufacturer who can afford to make and sell Android tablets at prices comparable to Apple's and still make decent money on them. Just my .02.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Oh. The Asus has ... WaveShare UI? Some of those user skins can cause trouble too. 

Vanilla AOSP for me all the way.


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> I personally am not a big fan of the tile system. The interface seems too bulky and cluttered. Also a touch interface on a desktop or laptop doesn't appeal to me either. My arms would get tired.


Agreed. It's history repeating itself. Touch screens are nothing new, just a recycled idea caused by the tablets, which benefit from touch screens. I'm sitting here typing this and I'm over three feet away from the monitor. My arms would fall off too....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

More Windows 8 coverage here, with a couple of tablet prototypes shown at the end of the slide-show.

Conflicting reports on when it will be available, tho. A couple of weeks ago in Japan, Ballmer said 2012 for sure, but Microsoft's PR department back-pedaled on that. Dell, OTOH, is hoping to release a Win 8 tablet in Q1. There are apparently going to be two versions of Win 8. One x86, and one ARM, so maybe the ARM version will come out sooner, for phones and tablets? :scratchin

While there have been no public statements one way or the other about Flash support, Microsoft did specifically mention they've chosen to develop their own applications in HTML 5 and Javascript. The handwriting is on the wall, IMHO.


----------



## klang

Doug Brott said:


> Found an interesting article today (well heard it on the radio):
> Source (audio available)
> 
> This is certainly not a good sign unless you're Apple - it may not even bee good news for Apple in the long run.


I wonder if the cutbacks are because they don't think they can sell them or because they can't get the products to market quick enough?


----------



## FHSPSU67

TBlazer07 said:


> Testing dolphin
> 
> There is still lag with Dolphin. I see no difference. 1234567. Maybe a tiny bit better.


Just found this:
"Unlock the debug mode by entering "about:debug" in the URL bar.

Then go into settings > debug

Untick "Enable OpenGL Rendering"

Enjoy non laggy text entry in the browser"

Seems to work, but admittedly don't know of any consequences.
Thanks to Pixelbat at AndroidCentral.com


----------



## Doug Brott

klang said:


> I wonder if the cutbacks are because they don't think they can sell them or because they can't get the products to market quick enough?


I think you'll get a bit more out of the audio, but Cooley sounded like what was happening was NOT a good thing. Basically that they were cutting back because the demand simply was/is not there.

Apple has had supply chain issues .. They can't make enough of them. How many of the non-Apple Tablet purchases were because of being unable to get an iPad? Certainly, I know a lot of people that waited (and some that are still waiting) for an iPad2 rather than getting a different Tablet.

Heck, I know someone that was considering all kinds of tablets and settled in on an iPad 1 from ebay because it was such a good deal.

I really think this is one of those times where going with the herd is the best option. It's not even clear yet who the survivors are going to be outside of Apple.


----------



## Steve

FHSPSU67 said:


> Seems to work, but admittedly don't know of any consequences.
> Thanks to Pixelbat at AndroidCentral.com


Turning off OpenGL rendering will break some sites, like Google Body.


----------



## Steve

PCMag updated their Verizon Motorola Xoom review today, to reflect the Honeycomb 3.1 upgrades.



> The Motorola Xoom lacked key features out of the gate, but it has slowly addressed the majority of them, aside fromm the non-working microSD slot. The Xoom is beautiful, with an intuitive and customizable (though slightly redundant and cluttered) user interface, excellent screen quality, and some very useful apps and features, like Talk and the dual cameras with a built-in flash. Whether the Android Market will catch up to Honeycomb, however, remains to be seen. The Xoom lacks the app selection and overall grace that makes the iPad 2 the best tablet currently available. Furthermore, there are other Honeycomb tablets that offer more features, like the 3D-enhanced T-Mobile G-Slate with Google (by LG) ($629, 3.5 stars), or cost less, like the Asus Eee Pad Transformer TF101 ($449, 3.5 stars). After being first out of the gate, the Motorola Xoom has plenty of competition, and while it is a quality device, it does little to differentiate itself. [*more*]


----------



## spartanstew

Doug Brott said:


> Found an interesting article today (well heard it on the radio):
> Source (audio available)
> 
> This is certainly not a good sign unless you're Apple - it may not even bee good news for Apple in the long run.


A more indepth article HERE

What I find interesting is this section:

*The report named the list of iPad rivals that have failed to gain traction, including Asustek's Eee Pad Transformer, Motorola's Xoom, Research In Motion's PlayBook, and Samsung's Galaxy Tab. Although the Eee Pad sold out in stores when it debuted, it is now easily available and in some cases overstocked.*

The Eee Pad Transformer is still pretty hard to find and goes out of stock at most places within a couple of hours, so I'm not sure where they're getting their information. There's a whole thread at one of the Transformer forum just dedicated to news of where and when they're in stock so people can buy them. It was in stock at Amazon earlier in the week for less than 6 hours. NewEgg had them in stock yesterday for 2 hours.

I do think a lot of it has to do with the number of Tablets being released as well as the fact that some of them weren't ready for prime time upon release (Xoom, Playbook, etc.).


----------



## FHSPSU67

Steve said:


> Turning off OpenGL rendering will break some sites, like Google Body.


Thanks for the info. It's worked every place I've tried it so far.



spartanstew said:


> The Eee Pad Transformer is still pretty hard to find and goes out of stock at most places within a couple of hours, so I'm not sure where they're getting their information. There's a whole thread at one of the Transformer forum just dedicated to news of where and when they're in stock so people can buy them. It was in stock at Amazon earlier in the week for less than 6 hours. NewEgg had them in stock yesterday for 2 hours.
> 
> I do think a lot of it has to do with the number of Tablets being released as well as the fact that some of them weren't ready for prime time upon release (Xoom, Playbook, etc.).


I agree, the site that they use is nowinstock.com
They must not have tried to purchase one


----------



## RasputinAXP

rich584 said:


> Agreed. It's history repeating itself. Touch screens are nothing new, just a recycled idea caused by the tablets, which benefit from touch screens. I'm sitting here typing this and I'm over three feet away from the monitor. My arms would fall off too....:lol:
> 
> Rich


And motion controls on Windows 8 would be untenable why?










I think they've got that part figured out already.


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> I think they've got that part figured out already.


And no fingerprints to wipe off! :lol:

I wonder if you can touch type? :scratchin


----------



## Groundhog45

Tiger Direct has been advertising the ASUS for the last two days. At retail.


----------



## Sharkie_Fan

Doug Brott said:


> I think you'll get a bit more out of the audio, but Cooley sounded like what was happening was NOT a good thing. Basically that they were cutting back because the demand simply was/is not there.
> 
> Apple has had supply chain issues .. They can't make enough of them. How many of the non-Apple Tablet purchases were because of being unable to get an iPad? Certainly, I know a lot of people that waited (and some that are still waiting) for an iPad2 rather than getting a different Tablet.
> 
> Heck, I know someone that was considering all kinds of tablets and settled in on an iPad 1 from ebay because it was such a good deal.
> 
> I really think this is one of those times where going with the herd is the best option. It's not even clear yet who the survivors are going to be outside of Apple.


I've been looking around for a while for an Android tablet. My problem is this: I love the iPad.

I loved my iPhone too, but I switched to an android phone because I felt like it was 95% of the phone at a fraction of the price (I paid $49 for my android, as opposed to $299 at the time for an iPhone). I would buy 95% of the tablet for a fraction of the cost as well. In my mind, $200-$300 is a price I'd be comfortable paying. At the current pricing of $399 and up... I'll save up a little more and get an iPad @ $499.

Obviously there's some question as to whether the Android manufacturers can make enough money on their tablets to make it worthwhile. If that question exists at price points of $399 - $499... then the liklihood of android tablets making major headway seems slim to me, because I think there needs to be a bigger price differential if they're going to become a popular alternative to the iPad.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Steve said:


> And no fingerprints to wipe off! :lol:
> 
> I wonder if you can touch type? :scratchin


Speech to text!


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> And motion controls on Windows 8 would be untenable why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they've got that part figured out already.


I thought we were talking about touch screens. I must have missed the motion control thing. We have one of the Kinects, is Windows 8 gonna have something like that? The Kinect does work very well. What post was that in?

Rich


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> Speech to text!


With my Bronx accent? :lol:



rich584 said:


> I thought we were talking about touch screens. I must have missed the motion control thing. We have one of the Kinects, is Windows 8 gonna have something like that?


I don't think anything official's been announced, but you gotta figure that it's only be a matter of time before Microsoft connects those dots (Kinect to Windows).


----------



## TBlazer07

Groundhog45 said:


> Tiger Direct has been advertising the ASUS for the last two days. At retail.


Amazon has had it in stock for the last 48hrs ($399, free shipping, no tax & 30 day refund policy).

I'd give it an A+ except for the damned annoying keyboard delay while typing ANYWHERE on the web. I tried 3 different tablets at the mall yesterday and none of them seem to have this issue.

The Samsung looks interesting except the lack of (micro)SD slot is keeping me away from that one.


----------



## RasputinAXP

rich584 said:


> I thought we were talking about touch screens. I must have missed the motion control thing. We have one of the Kinects, is Windows 8 gonna have something like that? The Kinect does work very well. What post was that in?
> 
> Rich


Touch screen and Kinect are nearly the same concept; both use gestures but with better software the Kinect can do a whole hell of a lot:






And that's just some kids in their senior year of college...


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> Touch screen and Kinect are nearly the same concept; both use gestures but with better software the Kinect can do a whole hell of a lot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's just some kids in their senior year of college...


Can't see the You Tube content on your post.

Rich


----------



## RasputinAXP

Weird. Pulled the youtube tags off, check it out.


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> Weird. Pulled the youtube tags off, check it out.


I got it that time. I would assume that would take a whole lot of refinement. Kinda like using a trackball on an Excel spreadsheet. I used to use only trackballs on my Macs at work, but had a terrible time on Excel spreadsheets with them. Finally went back to using a mouse.

I'm still waiting for a voice recognition software program that will allow me to use a computer as they do on Star Trek. One that will control the computer and all applications. Inexpensively.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I'm still waiting for a voice recognition software program that will allow me to use a computer as they do on Star Trek. One that will control the computer and all applications. Inexpensively.


You can do it for $50 with Dragon, PC or Mac. Works best with a headset mic, tho.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Or for free built into Windows 7.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> You can do it for $50 with Dragon, PC or Mac. Works best with a headset mic, tho.


I've read conflicting reviews on the Dragon software. Have you actually used it? I'm getting to the point where I'm seeing conflicting reviews for a lot of stuff. Don't know how to deal with that. You, I'll believe.

Rich


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> Or for free built into Windows 7.


I don't think I'll ever make it to Windows 7. Next computer I buy will be a Mac.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I've read conflicting reviews on the Dragon software. Have you actually used it? I'm getting to the point where I'm seeing conflicting reviews for a lot of stuff. Don't know how to deal with that. You, I'll believe.


It works well after a bit of training... mostly of the user, not the s/w.  What I don't like is having to use the headset, tho. PITA.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> It works well after a bit of training... mostly of the user, not the s/w.  What I don't like is having to use the headset, tho. PITA.


Yeah, I've never liked headsets either. And I've used very expensive sonar headsets while in the Navy. Very comfortable when you first put them on, but after a bit, even the sonar headsets began to be annoying. Nothing duller than standing a sonar watch. I had to stop because I couldn't stay awake. Boring, ping, ping, ping, ping...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

FWIW, Apple shipped 25 million iPad so far, according to today's announcements.


----------



## Steve

Thanks to *Draconis*, I came across this great iOS 5 preview video. Gonna be tough for the Honeycomb tablets to match some of these features, IMHO. 

[YOUTUBEHD]LAhP-yLJJ9s[/YOUTUBEHD]


----------



## Alan Gordon

Steve said:


> Thanks to *Draconis*, I came across this great iOS 5 preview video. Gonna be tough for the Honeycomb tablets to match some of these features, IMHO.


I'm SO jonesin' for some of the features/services announced today that it's not even funny... 

~Alan


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Thanks to *Draconis*, I came across this great iOS 5 preview video. Gonna be tough for the Honeycomb tablets to match some of these features, IMHO.


Very clever. :lol:

I too am looking forward to the new features announced today for iOS 5. I'm a bit disappointed the ETA isn't until 'Fall'.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Very clever. :lol:
> 
> I too am looking forward to the new features announced today for iOS 5. I'm a bit disappointed the ETA isn't until 'Fall'.


Apple tends to under-promise and over-deliver, so my guess is 90 days from now, probably right at the start of the new school year.


----------



## RasputinAXP

ETA: Real Soon Now.

Glad to see they thought the Android notification system was so good they took it.


----------



## Cholly

Well, I've gotten sucked into the world of tablets, courtesy of Woot!
I Wooted a Visioneer gTablet today for $269.99 after reading a bunch of reviews on Woot, Amazon and two tablet oriented sites.Generally good reviews with updated software. Quite a few upgrades available to get to latest OS and Android Market for apps. Major downside is viewing angle of the LCD.


----------



## raott

"Steve" said:


> Thanks to Draconis, I came across this great iOS 5 preview video. Gonna be tough for the Honeycomb tablets to match some of these features, IMHO.
> 
> [YOUTUBEHD]LAhP-yLJJ9s[/YOUTUBEHD]


Personally, I was underwhelmed (and from the very mixed reaction I'm seeing others feel the same). Still no widgets, really???

There was some pretty good stuff in there but alot of this is just catching up to android rather than leaping over it, which is what I expected.


----------



## Groundhog45

Tiger Direct is advertising the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 for pre-order with shipping on the 17th. Retail price. Honeycomb 3.1.

16GB for $499.99

32GB for $599.99


----------



## Rich

Groundhog45 said:


> Tiger Direct is advertising the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 for pre-order with shipping on the 17th. Retail price. Honeycomb 3.1.
> 
> 16GB for $499.99
> 
> 32GB for $599.99


Just saw a nice article about it in the NY Daily News. Seemed as if they liked it.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Betanews's Joe Wilcox posted his "first impressions" of the Galaxy:

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-101-first-impression-review/1307596973


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Betanews's Joe Wilcox posted his "first impressions" of the Galaxy:
> 
> http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-101-first-impression-review/1307596973


Some of the comments after the article are brutal. :lol:


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Some of the comments after the article are brutal. :lol:


I guess the Android fan-boys can be as snippy as the Apple fan-boys.  Pretty unfair criticism, considering he made a point of saying this was about his "first impressions" out of the box.

Expecting an average customer to know how to change the browser "User Agent string" so you don't see a "mobile" version of a website like NYTimes.com is kind of far-fetched, don't you think? :lol:

BTW, I agree with him about disliking the aspect ratio vs. the iPad, but liking the 160 DPI font-rendering better, based on my own limited Xoom testing. I also thought the Xoom UI was a bit "snappier" than the iPad's, so doesn't surprise me the Galaxy's is too.

I also learned from this review how quickly Honeycomb apps load, and how well Droid phone apps scale to the larger screen. All in all, a pretty objective "first look", IMHO.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Steve said:


> Betanews's Joe Wilcox posted his "first impressions" of the Galaxy:
> 
> http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-101-first-impression-review/1307596973


From the article:



> Galaxy Tab 10.1 failed to impress me out of the box. I don't like the dimensions. I find the Tab to be too long and too narrow. It's more rectangular than iPad 2. But I'm not making a comparison to iPad 2 here.


Way to start the review out. I hate to agree with those commenters, but could somebody with a clue have reviewed the thing?


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> Way to start the review out. I hate to agree with those commenters, but could somebody with a clue have reviewed the thing?


Stupid way to _start_, I agree. But he said lots of positive things (below) if you get past the first graph. I like Wilcox because he represents an average user, not a geek like me.  Just my .02.

Dimensions aside, I like how the Galaxy Tab 10.1 feels compared to iPad 2
Setup delivers a great first impression, and it will be familiar to anyone using Android
I find Android's font rendering to be more pleasing than that of iOS.
Navigating Honeycomb is surprisingly intuitive.
Galaxy Tab 10.1 feels fast, more than does iPad 2. But it responds differently, with more fluidity and movement that may be as much about how the user interface behaves than the hardware driving it. Regardless, it makes a helluva good first impression.
By the way, to my surprise, all the dozen apps I tested scaled wonderfully.
I found myself wanting to explore and play with Tab 10.1 more than either the first- or second-generation iPads out of the box. Also, Honeycomb's overall look and feel is pleasing, much more than iPad 2.
Lots of good things to say about the browser, along with what he didn't like about it.

BTW, IMHO, it is stupid for Google to present a phone browser User Agent string for a 10" wide 16:9 horizontal display. More sites are going to look wrong than right.


----------



## Steve

The Galaxy Tab 10.1 was rated *3.5/5* stars by *PCMag* today.

Based on the review, it seems like the only thing that differentiates it from other Honeycomb tablets is that it's as thin and light as the iPad2, does not have USB or memory expansion ports and it comes with headphones. 

The reviewer wonders if Samsung's upcoming customized UI for it will be a blessing or a curse, because of the potential for it to delay OS updating.


----------



## Steve

BTW, the *PCMag* review also complained about the Galaxy's Honeycomb browser advertising itself as a mobile client:



> What's not a draw is the Honeycomb browser's ugly habit of defaulting to minimal, graphics-free mobile sites instead of the full web versions. The iPad 2 has this problem occasionally, but when you switch to the full site by scrolling to the bottom of the webpage and tapping that option, Safari remembers and loads the full version next time.


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> The Galaxy Tab 10.1 was rated *3.5/5* stars by *PCMag* today.


Here's their other ratings:

Transformer 3.5
Motorola Xoom 3.5
Acer Iconia 3.5
T-Mobile G Slate 3.5
HP Elitebook 3.5
Lenova IdeaPad 3.5


----------



## Groundhog45

spartanstew said:


> Here's their other ratings:
> 
> Transformer 3.5
> Motorola Xoom 3.5
> Acer Iconia 3.5
> T-Mobile G Slate 3.5
> HP Elitebook 3.5
> Lenova IdeaPad 3.5


At least they're consistent. What do they give the iPad 2?


----------



## spartanstew

4.5, same rating as the original iPad


----------



## Steve

Another detailed Galaxy review yesterday from the UK. PC Advisor gave it *4* stars. By comparison, they gave the iPad2 *4.5* stars, the Blackberry Playbook *4* stars, the Asus Transformer *3.5* stars, and the Acer Iconia *3* stars.

What's notable, IMHO, is this bit of information:



> Samsung's more customised overlay, TouchWiz UX, will be available later this summer as an over-the-air update. It's not available pre-installed at launch, Samsung says, because the company didn't have enough time to test it with Android 3.1. When the overlay does arrive, *Samsung says the current plan is for users to be able to opt to use elements of it, or they can go back to stock Android.* That said, we won't know the implementation for sure until it arrives.


Without knowing the specifics, though, it's still unknown if OS updates for this hardware may be delayed, which was PCMag's concern.


----------



## Steve

If pens are your thing, you may be interesting in this recent review of the HTC Flyer.

It's relatively expensive at $500 for a 7" tablet, but I figured the electronic pen might be the reason. Not so... it's an $80 option!


----------



## Steve

According to this report, the HP webOS tab will finally ship on July 1. $499 for 16gb and $599 for 32gb.

I thought HP might be able to make it a 3-horse race if they could price these things at perhaps $349 for a 16gb tab and $425 for 32gb. Either it's not possible to manufacture them that inexpensively, or HP may be hoping to sell these to corporate customers... the RIM Playbook crowd.

From what I've heard, webOS is pretty slick, which is why I thought a $350 MSRP wi-fi tablet had some potential. Shows you what I know! 

BTW, this tablet is just supposed to be the "tip" of a webOS iceberg. HP expects to ship 100 million webOS devices per year, including phones, tablets, PC's and printers.


----------



## Groundhog45

Ok, here's the pre-order for the Toshiba Thrive tablet. Strange name. They say it will ship in mid July. Three models with 8GB, 16GB, or 32GB, priced at $430, $480, and $580. It does show the one USB 2.0, one Mini USB, one HDMI and an SD Card Slot. They also link to other retailers where you can pre-order from.


----------



## Steve

Groundhog45 said:


> Ok, here's the pre-order for the Toshiba Thrive tablet. Strange name. They say it will ship in mid July. Three models with 8GB, 16GB, or 32GB, priced at $430, $480, and $580. It does show the one USB 2.0, one Mini USB, one HDMI and an SD Card Slot. They also link to other retailers where you can pre-order from.


Here are the specs for the 8GB model. FWIW, at .62" thick, it's almost twice as thick as the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 (.34").


----------



## Stuart Sweet

5/8 of an inch seems pretty chunky these days.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> 5/8 of an inch seems pretty chunky these days.


Price of a replaceable battery, I guess. It does allow them to incorporate a full-sized HDMI port, e.g., but I think it will be tiring to hold, based on my limited Xoom testing. I held the Xoom for about an hour while putting it throught its paces at BestBuy, and by the time I was done, it felt like it weighed a ton. And it's only .51" thick and about the same 1.6 pounds as the Thrive.

I have the same weight problem with the iPad2 when I use it with the SmartCover attached. Happily it snaps on and off easily.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> According to this report, the HP webOS tab will finally ship on July 1. $499 for 16gb and $599 for 32gb [...]


Came across a couple of webOS demo videos. I like the way they treat all open apps as "cards" that can be "stacked", if they're related to each other.

[YOUTUBEHD]G3bcQQvyQUY[/YOUTUBEHD]

[YOUTUBEHD]7aX07pJWe_s[/YOUTUBEHD]


----------



## Steve

This tablet could be a big hit for Verizon FiOS field techs and others who currently use Panasonic Toughbook laptops.



> More than 100 different Android device designs have been released over the last three years, but there have only been a handful of "ruggedized" smartphones (Motorola i1, Defy, Casio G'Zone Commando) and no rugged tablets. Thursday, Panasonic announced it will be releasing the first enterprise-grade rugged Android tablet under its Toughbook line in the fourth quarter of 2011. [*more*]


----------



## bobukcat

Costco just lowered the price of the WiFi only Xoom to $499 and are throwing in a free Gel Case. I've seen reports on people getting refunds if they had purchased one at the old price in the last 30 days.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1


----------



## TBlazer07

bobukcat said:


> Costco just lowered the price of the WiFi only Xoom to $499 and are throwing in a free Gel Case. I've seen reports on people getting refunds if they had purchased one at the old price in the last 30 days.
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1


Probably because they are now also selling the 32GIG ACER for $479 in store with free case and the 16GIG Samsung 10.1 (online only so far). Way too thick .... the Tosh will be even thicker.

I should have a Samsung to play with tomorrow or Mon from Amazon.


----------



## Steve

For the geeks among us, Tom's hardware benchmarked the iPad 2's GPU vs. the iPad 1's and the Xoom's. The test results show Apple apparently made graphics performance a high priority when designing their second generation tablet.

Rest of the review here.


----------



## Beerstalker

Steve said:


> This tablet could be a big hit for Verizon FiOS field techs and others who currently use Panasonic Toughbook laptops.


Yep, I can see this being very popular if it is built as well as the toughbook laptops.


----------



## Rich

Last weekend, my soon to be three years old granddaughter got hold of my iPad2 and fell in love with it. I loaded some kids programs on it and she spent hours playing with it. Then, when it was time to go home, she wanted to take it with her!

She was actually going to the App Store and checking out the kid's apps. Took her only a few minutes to figure out how the whole thing worked. Hope the iPad3 comes out soon so I can have an iPad on the weekends....:lol:

I've pretty much given up on the Android Tablets and will stick with the iPads unless something comes along and blows them away.

Rich


----------



## bobnielsen

I have been trying a number of different firmware versions on my Nook Color and am quite happy with the performance of CyanogenMod 7. I'm using on internal memory and an overclocked (1200 MHz) kernel but it seems very stable. My only complaint at this point is battery life, even with wi-fi turned off. The Android Nook reader app isn't quite as good as the native version, however. I'm getting a linpack score of 14.5 Mflops and a Quadrant benchmark of 2355.


----------



## TBlazer07

This my "first look" on the Samsung 10.1 retail from Amazon which I have had for an hour vs. the Asus 10.1 which I had for 2 weeks which I just shipped out to the buyer:

Size:
Samsung wins. VERY thin and VERY light, actually a fraction thinner than the iPad2. Asus is just "thin & light." But does it really matter? You put a case on it anyway. Both of them are MUCH smaller and lighter than the ACER I saw in Costco. The Acer is "thick." Upcoming Toshiba is even thicker. If the iPad was "wide screen" I might have even given it a shot (I have an iPhone) but a "square" screen is so 90's. 

Build:
Samsung by a mile. The Sammy has an "iPad quality" feel even with the plastic textured back. Screen doesn't have that loose feel with the metal strip border around it which "creaks" when you press on it on the ASUS.

Image:
Samsung wins. Samsung seems, ummm, prettier. Colors more vivid (some people don't like that - I do).

Screen sensitivity:
Asus wins. Asus "screen page flipping" seems much more sensitive than the Sammy. Seem to have to press harder to flip screens. It does seem the Sammy is less of a fingerprint magnet than the Asus.

Typing lag on the web:
They both lose but Sammy is worse. Asus was BAD, Samsung 
is horrible. It's got to be a Honeycomb 3.x issue, hopefully it will be fixed.

Features:
Asus wins. Both use proprietary cables to charge. ASUS Has MicroSD slot a big plus. Asus keyboard/netbook fliptop dock is a winner. Sammy has a freestanding keyboard dock.

Price:
Asus Wins. All you need is a 16GB Asus because you can use a cheap microSD to add storage. Can't do that to the Sammy since it has no microSD so you might want to get the 32GB.
Asus 16GIG $399
Samsung 16GIG $499
Add $100 to both for 32GIG.

As for Android VS IOS. Depends on the type of person you are. There are enough apps for me with Android for my use and eventually there will be a lot more. If you want lots of Fart apps & flashlights IOS is the place. IOS also has an app for anything else you could possibly want. Android will ALWAYS be second there no matter how many phones and tabs they sell.

Hackability:
Asus Wins. Asus was rootable before it was released. The Google I/O LE Sammy was rootable. The retail Sammy is locked down. I have to assume it will eventually be rootable, but no idea when. XDA seems very pessimistic but I'm sure someone will do it eventually. Give it a week.


----------



## spartanstew

Why'd you sell the Asus. Seems like overall you liked it better than the Samsung.


----------



## TBlazer07

spartanstew said:


> Why'd you sell the Asus. Seems like overall you liked it better than the Samsung.


 Mainly because I just wanted to try the other one. In the end I pretty much got what I paid for it. Maybe cost me $20. In the short term it seems I do like it better than the new one although I like the display better on the Samsung. I have 30 days to return to Amazon, can always repurchase Asus or whatever else.


----------



## spartanstew

I was going to buy your transformer blazer, but had a feeling my wife had bought me one for fathers day. I was right, she just gave it to me. Gonna have to spend more time in the transformer forums. I do like that it has swype built right in.



Sent from my new transformer


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Last weekend, my soon to be three years old granddaughter got hold of my iPad2 and fell in love with it.


If you haven't yet found it, be sure to put _Koi Pond HD_ on there and let her touch the screen.


----------



## TBlazer07

spartanstew said:


> I was going to buy your transformer blazer, but had a feeling my wife had bought me one for fathers day. I was right, she just gave it to me. Gonna have to spend more time in the transformer forums. I do like that it has swype built right in.
> 
> Sent from my new transformer


I found swype too difficult on such a large keyboard. Great on a cell but on a nearly full size kbd I never could get it to work right.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

TBlazer07 said:


> I found swype too difficult on such a large keyboard. Great on a cell but on a nearly full size kbd I never could get it to work right.


I find Swype a bit awkward when my phone is rotated to landscape so I wondered what it would be like on a tablet.

Although, it would be much easier to type two handed on a ten inch tablet so I probably wouldn't need Swype.

Mike


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> I found swype too difficult on such a large keyboard. Great on a cell but on a nearly full size kbd I never could get it to work right.


iOS 5 features the ability to "split" the keyboard, so you can type with both thumbs if you're holding the tablet aloft. You can even slide it up and down while it's split.










According to this, there's an Android app called Swiftkey in beta that will allow you to split the keyboard as well.


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> iOS 5 features the ability to "split" the keyboard, so you can type with both thumbs if you're holding the tablet aloft. You can even slide it up and down while it's split.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to this, there's an Android app called Swiftkey in beta that will allow you to split the keyboard as well.


Actually, there's a couple of split thumb keyboards in this market. I'm kinda liking the swype though. Not as fast but easy to work with one hand when I've got the remote in the other hand or my son's on my lap.


----------



## Steve

I actually "touch type" (while looking) on the iPad when it's set on a table. The Smart Cover holds it at the perfect angle and the keys are comfortably spaced for my hands.

When I'm holding the tablet and need to type, tho, it's usually balanced flat on my left palm and I tap out letters with my right index finger. When iOS5 comes out, will be interesting to see how holding the iPad with both hands and typing with both thumbs on the split keyboard compares to that.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> If you haven't yet found it, be sure to put _Koi Pond HD_ on there and let her touch the screen.


Will do, thanx.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Engadget's reporting it's a 7-incher, from a company called Huawei. It's slated for a Q3/11 release.

The company's name reminds me of that memorable Pacino quote, from _Scent of a Woman_.


----------



## bobukcat

spartanstew said:


> Actually, there's a couple of split thumb keyboards in this market. I'm kinda liking the swype though. Not as fast but easy to work with one hand when I've got the remote in the other hand or my son's on my lap.


Yeah, I've been using "ThumbKey" on my Xoom since the first week I got it and it works great for the two hand, two thumb typing. It's gotten better with each release offering more layout options based on one-hand versus two, portrait versus landscape, etc. I've tried swype, swiftkey, and several other ones but Thumbkey is still my preferred one.


----------



## Steve

The Galaxy Tab's keyboard dock was reviewed here. After some initial difficulty getting the tablet to recognize it, the reviewer really liked it.

Like the iPad dock from Apple, you must use the tablet in one particular screen orientation. With the Samsung, it's landscape... better for spreadsheets, I guess. With the iPad, it's portrait. Apple likely chose this because the 4:3 aspect ratio is almost identical to 8.5x11's.

The other alternatives are the bluetooth keyboards, which allow you to orient the tablet the best way for the task at hand. Both Apple and Microsoft make nice ones. If I ever find the need for one, I might consider the Logitech/Zagg, because it doubles as an extremely durable case.


----------



## Steve

Computerworld just posted a list of 10 nice Honeycomb "business" apps here.

One of them is the Wyse's _PocketCloud_, which allows remote control of a PC desktop. I sometimes use a free "lite" version of this app on my iPad to control my home PC, via a VNC server I run on it.


----------



## Steve

Good round-up here.

From that list, I read separately that the Lenovo Ideapad would retail for $499 with 32gb. Same as the Asus 32gb and $100 less than the Samsung 32gb. It's not as svelte as the Sammy, tho, at .52" thin and 1.6 pounds, but unlike the current competition, it has an aluminum back and is available in white.

Coolest design is the Sony S2's, IMHO:










The Sony S1 has the same wedge-shape that the Apple iPhone 5 is rumored to have:


----------



## Steve

Kudos to Tim Stevens at Engadget for really putting HP's new tablet through it's paces here. I got the impression he really wanted to like it, but doesn't feel it's a worthy competitor at $499 for the 16gb model and $599 for the 32gb model.

Sight unseen, I'd have to agree. If I have to pay the same as I would for the proven commodity, why take the risk? As slick as WebOS is, for HP to hope to unseat the iOS/Android momentum, I really hoped these things might be priced at something like $349 for the 16gb model, to make it a 3-horse race. Just my .02.


----------



## Steve

... and had this to say:



> *Bottom Line*
> With solid hardware and a user-friendly operating system based around multitasking and intuitive organization, the HP TouchPad is the best non-Apple tablet we've tested. There aren't a lot of apps yet, but Android Honeycomb tablet manufacturers should be a little nervous.
> 
> [*more*]


Go figure. :shrug:


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> ... and had this to say:
> 
> Go figure. :shrug:


They seem to be in the minority of the reviews making the rounds today.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> They seem to be in the minority of the reviews making the rounds today.


The UK's Guardian gave it a thoughtful review and 4 stars as well:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/30/hp-touchpad-tablet-review


----------



## Steve

The New York Times's David Pogue had this to say:



> [*more*]
> 
> In this 1.0 incarnation, the TouchPad doesn't come close to being as complete or mature as the iPad or the best Android tablets; you'd be shortchanging yourself by buying one right now, unless you're some kind of rabid A.B.A. nut (Anything but Apple).
> 
> But there are signs of greatness here. H.P. is coming to this battle very late, but it says it intends to stay the course. True, it's tilting at windmills - but at least it's riding an impressive steed.


----------



## klang

Mossberg in the WSJ was somewhat complimentary but still wouldn't recommend the device.

Strictly going by most of the headlines I've seen, the TouchPad is being received only slightly better than the PlayBook was.


----------



## Steve

The New York Times's David Pogue recently tried to find out and blogged about it *here* this morning.

I was not aware of the fact _"there are apps that run only on the Samsung Galaxy, some that run only on the Motorola Xoom, and so on."_ I guess this is yet another way prospective buyers can choose between which Droid tablet manufacturer they want to go with.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> The New York Times's David Pogue recently tried to find out and blogged about it *here* this morning.
> 
> I was not aware of the fact _"there are apps that run only on the Samsung Galaxy, some that run only on the Motorola Xoom, and so on."_ I guess this is yet another way prospective buyers can choose between which Droid tablet manufacturer they want to go with.


I doubt there are very many of those Apps and I would suspect most of what he is talking about are simply Apps that came with the device ie, on my EVO, Sprint preloaded a NASCAR app and a few others.


----------



## RasputinAXP

David Pogue, Apple's Paid Whore?


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> David Pogue, Apple's Paid Whore?


That's your opinion. I find Pogue to be objective and not afraid to take shots at Apple (or any other vendor), when he feels it's warranted. :shrug:

BTW, in that blog, he reported 10k less iPad apps than the 100k number others were reporting the day before.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Besides the usual Pogue stuff, I can't take him seriously after the FCP X debacle. He's an apologist and a shill.


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> He's an apologist and a shill.


Sorry to take the thread more OT, and not sure if this changes your opinion of him, but you may have missed what Pogue had to say _after _the response to his initial review:



> But - and let me be clear on this point - I think Apple blew it. [...]
> Having read through hundreds of comments from professionals, both civil and uncivil, I'm now convinced: Final Cut Pro X may indeed be ready for the future. But for professional video editors, it's not yet ready for the present.
> 
> [*more*]


----------



## RasputinAXP

My issue is that it took 2 days of people lambasting him to even come THAT far to say that. You want to call it Final Cut Express, sure, you've got a point. To call it Final Cut Pro and blow it that badly? And then to defend it for 2 days before declaring _mea maxima culpa_? Come on.

He's popular because he's a vaguely likable, bland guy who writes tech columns for the general, uninterested public. It's only when he goes off the deep end (like this) that he really gets called out for these types of things.

Note he says "Apple blew it" not "I blew it." In any situation where I've had to write my own mea culpas I am sure to take responsibility for my misguided opinions.


----------



## Cholly

This past week, I successfully upgraded my Viewsonic gTablet to the Illuminate ROM version, which supports Honeycomb (Android 3.0.1). It took a few tweaks to get Android Market working, but now I'm busy learning the ins and outs of my new configuration. At this point, it doesn't support the camera or HD (a new version of Flash is needed from Adobe), and Zynga says that my tablet isn't compatible with "Wprds With Friends"  -- So far, I've downloaded Pandora and Angy Birds and both work fine. I haven't tried downloading the Kidle app as yet. Google works well and Web access is quick.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Words with Friends was compatible until their latest update. I don't know why they yanked it, but they've mentioned "a honeycomb compatible" version was coming.

What a pain in the tuchus


----------



## Cholly

RasputinAXP said:


> Words with Friends was compatible until their latest update. I don't know why they yanked it, but they've mentioned "a honeycomb compatible" version was coming.
> 
> What a pain in the tuchus


I suspect it's because Flash is not compatible with Honeycomb as yet


----------



## RasputinAXP

Uh. Sure it is. Has been since very shortly (like 2 days) after the Xoom's release. Running it fine right now. Guarantee it's not Flash if it's running natively on the Android platform.


----------



## spartanstew

Cholly said:


> This past week, I successfully upgraded my Viewsonic gTablet to the Illuminate ROM version, which supports Honeycomb (Android 3.0.1). It took a few tweaks to get Android Market working, but now I'm busy learning the ins and outs of my new configuration. At this point, it doesn't support the camera or HD (a new version of Flash is needed from Adobe), and Zynga says that my tablet isn't compatible with "Wprds With Friends"  -- So far, I've downloaded Pandora and Angy Birds and both work fine. I haven't tried downloading the Kidle app as yet. Google works well and Web access is quick.


Try WordFeud, it's better anyway (especially the random setting), but doesn't get the press WWF's does.


----------



## Steve

Appears the Toshiba Thrive will be available at Best Buy, among others, starting next Sunday. It differentiates itself by offering full-sized USB, HDMI and SD ports, along with a user-replaceable battery.

According to a Toshiba press release, _"Available memory configurations include 8GB ($429.99 MSRP4), 16GB $479.99 MSRP4) and 32GB ($579.99 MSRP4) models. Full retail availability at major retailers and e-tailers, including Amazon.com, Best Buy, Office Depot, OfficeMax, Radio Shack and hhgregg, will begin in mid-July."_ Looks like with the right SD card, you can "roll your own" 40gb model for under $500!

The *Engadget* "hands on" is here.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Appears the Toshiba Thrive will be available at Best Buy, among others, starting next Sunday. It differentiates itself by offering full-sized USB, HDMI and SD ports, along with a user-replaceable battery.
> 
> According to a Toshiba press release, _"Available memory configurations include 8GB ($429.99 MSRP4), 16GB $479.99 MSRP4) and 32GB ($579.99 MSRP4) models. Full retail availability at major retailers and e-tailers, including Amazon.com, Best Buy, Office Depot, OfficeMax, Radio Shack and hhgregg, will begin in mid-July."_ Looks like with the right SD card, you can "roll your own" 40gb model for under $500!
> 
> The *Engadget* "hands on" is here.


Would have been nice to see them take the battery out and I'm really curious about the cost of the batteries. But it looks great. My wife and my granddaughter have taken my iPad away from me, so on weeknights and weekends I don't get to use it.

Might be interesting to get one of these. Remember, Target has a 90 day return policy on tablets. I know this is hard to believe, but when I bought my iPad at a local Target, everyone assured me that it was true, from managers to salespeople.

Rich


----------



## RasputinAXP

Still loving my Xoom.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Might be interesting to get one of these. Remember, Target has a 90 day return policy on tablets. I know this is hard to believe, but when I bought my iPad at a local Target, everyone assured me that it was true, from managers to salespeople.


I noticed that neither Target nor Walmart were listed in the Toshiba press release, but ya never know.

Good news is the reviewer didn't seem bothered by the weight and thickness, and she liked the feel of the rubberized back. I _was_ curious about this comment:_ "The 10.1-inch (1280 x 800) display has a wholly responsive touchscreen, and while it's plenty bright, it'll look the most brilliant if you stare *[down at]* it head-on." _Did she notice something that prompted her to point that out? :scratchin Otherwise, I'm thinking the same can be said for just about any tablet.

I'm also curious if this tablet has the same "all-day" battery life as the others, or if the battery has less capacity, because it's removable.


----------



## Steve

RE: Differentiating Honeycomb tablets through software, the video on this page shows some interesting Touchwiz UI enhancements from Samsung.

The video's a lot longer than it needs to be, IMHO, but at about 3:40 in, the Touchwiz "mini-apps" tray is a utility/app/feature I'd personally like to see available for the iPad2. Just my .02.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I noticed that neither Target nor Walmart were listed in the Toshiba press release, but ya never know.
> 
> Good news is the reviewer didn't seem bothered by the weight and thickness, and she liked the feel of the rubberized back. I _was_ curious about this comment:_ "The 10.1-inch (1280 x 800) display has a wholly responsive touchscreen, and while it's plenty bright, it'll look the most brilliant if you stare *[down at]* it head-on." _Did she notice something that prompted her to point that out? :scratchin Otherwise, I'm thinking the same can be said for just about any tablet.
> 
> I'm also curious if this tablet has the same "all-day" battery life as the others, or if the battery has less capacity, because it's removable.


Not much said about the battery, makes me wonder. Expected more focus on that.

Rich


----------



## Steve

ZDNet's Matthew Miller likes the RIM Playbook enough that he might consider switching to a next generation Blackberry phone! I'm sure this is the kind of buzz RIM hoped to achieve with their tablet, though I'd be shocked if the market actually goes that way.



> Out of the three newer tablet operating systems, RIM is actually doing the best in terms of a slick UI and solid performance with the PlayBook and even though I am not a BlackBerry smartphone user, after testing Honeycomb and webOS on tablets I am seriously considering picking up a BB Bold 9900 as soon as they get released - since my PlayBook is pretty rocking.


He didn't have many kind words about his first encounter with an HP TouchPad:



> The TouchPad feels a bit like a Fisher Price version of a tablet in today's sleek world with the iPad 2, BlackBerry PlayBook, and Samsung Galaxy 10.1. The glossy back is a super fingerprint magnet and 1.6 pounds is pretty heavy for a tablet.
> 
> I could not believe how much lag there was in the device and I even tried out two of them in the store to make sure it wasn't just one device. That was easy to do given that no one else was looking at the TouchPad and they had plenty in stock. I could not find anything overly compelling about the TouchPad during my 15 minutes with the device.


Rumors are HP is already preparing to release a 1.5 Ghz version of the tablet next month. Seems to me like someone over there dropped the ball re: timing and pricing. They waited this long, couldn't they have waited another month and tweaked the software enough that speed wouldn't be an issue the reviewers picked up on? If I was considering buying one of these now, why would I, knowing a faster one is coming out in a few weeks??? Just my .02.


----------



## CoriBright

My Toshiba Thrive arrives today (hopefully, UPS says it's currently 'out for delivery') and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on Honeycomb 3.1. So we will now be a 3 system household, I've Windows 7 64 bit on most of the PCs, with Server 2008 64 bit on one, Leopard/Win7 on my Netbook, iOS 4.3.3 on my iPhone and Honeycomb on the Thrive.
I guess all of them talking to each other is thinking a little bit too optomistically!


----------



## Steve

CoriBright said:


> My Toshiba Thrive arrives today [...]


And???? Inquiring minds want to know! :lol:


----------



## Steve

WSJ is reporting the Amazon tablet will ship in October. This comment perplexed me...


> The device will *not* have a camera, said one person familiar with it.


... until I saw this comment:


> The tablet will allow Amazon customers to easily watch videos, read electronic books and listen to digital music they purchase or rent from the online retailer.


They're likely going to position it as an entertainment appliance, to differentiate it from the rest of the Honeycomb tabs. I imagine it will be tightly integrated with the Amazon "cloud" as well.

[*more*]


----------



## djlong

Depending on what options is has, a camera might be an add-on. Maybe something like a Bluetooth clip-on camera.

As a Kindle owner, I'm VERY interested in this. I've been holding off on trying out a tablet until Amazon made a splash.


----------



## Steve

Not sure how useful this "predictive" typing technology from the TouchType Corporation is, but if Android phone and tablet users want to kick the tires on it, _Swiftkey X_ and _Swiftykey Tablet X_ are both on sale today for $1.99.

http://venturebeat.com/2011/07/14/swiftkey-android-keyboard/


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Not sure how useful this "predictive" typing technology from the TouchType Corporation is, but if Android phone and tablet users want to kick the tires on it, _Swiftkey X_ and _Swiftykey Tablet X_ are both on sale today for $1.99.
> 
> http://venturebeat.com/2011/07/14/swiftkey-android-keyboard/


I've had Swiftkey on my Droid since the first week or so that I got it. Most of the time you don't have to type much, it's very intuitive and you just have to click on the word choices. Wish the iPad had it.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I've had Swiftkey on my Droid since the first week or so that I got it. Most of the time you don't have to type much, it's very intuitive and you just have to click on the word choices. Wish the iPad had it.


Gotcha. So the "X" version is nothing new?


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Gotcha. So the "X" version is nothing new?


I dunno. My Droid just says, "Swiftkey". Rather amazing keyboard. How would I tell if the X version is different? Hmmm.

Got it from the Market. Just said it's upgrading "Swiftkey" to Swiftkey X (Phone). Must be an upgrade to the original. Perhaps it's better. Oh goody. The upgrade is free.

Rich


----------



## CoriBright

Oops sorry, too busy playing with the Thrive! I discovered Angry Birds & the rest is history.

It's beautiful & it really has got what they say - an SD card slot which happily supports SDHC (& apparently SDXC too but I don't have any to test) a full size USB port, a mini USB port & a full size HDMI port which I haven't tested yet. 

The Toshiba included QuickOffice opens PDFs without any extra download, Android Flash works perfectly. Some have reported problems with twaking up from sleep & Toshiba are supposedly working on a fix which hopefully will come along soon along with Honeycomb 3.2. mine doesn't seem to suffer so far. 

Again some folks have had issues with MKV files which I haven't tried yet as I stream mine with the WD HDTV Live box, & that little piece of hardware plays everything I throw at it, & I'd rather watch them on my TV than a 10" tablet.

I did have problems trying to login to answers.Microsoft.com which I haven't solved yet.

Other than that it's well worth the $479 I spent on it - because that's half the price of an iPad2


----------



## FHSPSU67

CoriBright said:


> Oops sorry, too busy playing with the Thrive! I discovered Angry Birds & the rest is history.
> 
> It's beautiful & it really has got what they say - an SD card slot which happily supports SDHC (& apparently SDXC too but I don't have any to test) a full size USB port, a mini USB port & a full size HDMI port which I haven't tested yet.
> 
> The Toshiba included QuickOffice opens PDFs without any extra download, Android Flash works perfectly. Some have reported problems with twaking up from sleep & Toshiba are supposedly working on a fix which hopefully will come along soon along with Honeycomb 3.2. mine doesn't seem to suffer so far.
> 
> Again some folks have had issues with MKV files which I haven't tried yet as I stream mine with the WD HDTV Live box, & that little piece of hardware plays everything I throw at it, & I'd rather watch them on my TV than a 10" tablet.
> 
> I did have problems trying to login to answers.Microsoft.com which I haven't solved yet.
> 
> Other than that it's well worth the $479 I spent on it - because that's half the price of an iPad2


Enjoy! These things were only figments of our imagination 20 years ago! I'm extremely happy with my ASUS transformer, too


----------



## RasputinAXP

I just upgraded my Xoom to 3.2 and the overclocked Tiamat kernel. Pretty slick, and SetCPU is working beautifully on it. Stable at 1.5GHz and underclocks to ~215MHz when it's not in use. Battery life is wonderful.

That said the new "Stretch/zoom" thing for non-native apps is particularly awful.


----------



## BubblePuppy

rich584 said:


> I dunno. My Droid just says, "Swiftkey". Rather amazing keyboard. How would I tell if the X version is different? Hmmm.
> 
> Got it from the Market. Just said it's upgrading "Swiftkey" to Swiftkey X (Phone). Must be an upgrade to the original. Perhaps it's better. Oh goody. The upgrade is free.
> 
> Rich


There were two versions of Swiftkey in the Market: SwiftkeyX (commercial version) and SwiftkeyX Beta (only available to VIP beta testers). SwiftkeyX replaces Swiftkey. The beta version is expiring in a few days. The version of Swiftkey X is a upgrade to the earlier version of X.
All VIP beta testers will be losing the beta version and need to switch over to X commercial version.
Hope that clears some things up.


----------



## Rich

BubblePuppy said:


> There were two versions of Swiftkey in the Market: SwiftkeyX (commercial version) and SwiftkeyX Beta (only available to VIP beta testers). SwiftkeyX replaces Swiftkey. The beta version is expiring in a few days. The version of Swiftkey X is a upgrade to the earlier version of X.
> All VIP beta testers will be losing the beta version and need to switch over to X commercial version.
> Hope that clears some things up.


I upgraded to the commercial version. I rarely use beta versions of anything.

Haven't used it yet, but I do wish the iPad would offer it.

Rich


----------



## Steve

CoriBright said:


> [...] it's well worth the $479 I spent on it - because that's half the price of an iPad2


Cool you're enjoying it, Cari! :up: What kind of life are you seeing from the replaceable battery?

RE: the iPad2 pricing, you may be looking at the 64gb 3G iPad2 pricing. The 16gb/32gb wifi iPad2s are only $20 more than the 16gb/32gb wifi Thrives, at least at Best Buy.


----------



## CoriBright

It did about eleven hours yesterday, but I wasn't using it nonstop. I really did consider the iPad but the lack of Flash is a real issue. There are so many websites I visit that use it, Speed being one of them for their internet only coverage of practise sessions for F1.

And I previously had a Fujitsu Windows Tablet but was unimpressed, thankfully I won it because it's price retail was well over two thousand dollars. I got tired of using the special pen and sold it on eBay.

This one is just like a giant iPad, but without the phone capability and with Flash & I can almost touch type on its keyboard!


----------



## Steve

From today's Gizmo's:


> Dolphin, the gesture-based web browser for the Android platform, has ditched its $4.99 price tag on the premium version, having received a nice chunk of venture capital funding. The premium version is now free, and the previous free version, which was ad-supported, is no longer available. [*more*]


----------



## elaclair

CoriBright said:


> It did about eleven hours yesterday, but I wasn't using it nonstop. I really did consider the iPad but the lack of Flash is a real issue. There are so many websites I visit that use it, Speed being one of them for their internet only coverage of practise sessions for F1.


Keep in mind that just because a web site _uses_ Flash doesn't mean it _requires_ Flash. I go to the Speed web site all the time and have yet to find a video that _won't_ play on my iPad2.....


----------



## Steve

> If you've been paying attention to the Android Tablet space, you've probably noticed there's been something of a price war going on lately.
> 
> Recently, two major tablet manufacturers, Acer and Motorola, have adjusted their tablet street pricing in response to pricing pressure from competing manufacturers which have introduced similar devices, such as Asus and Toshiba. [_*more*_]


Could be a nice little offering by Vizio, _especially_ if it has a lower street price than $349. Looks like it's "only" a single-core processor, however, which could explain how they lowered the price. I personally prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio for general tablet use, and especially for web browsing. Just me, tho.










> _At $349, Vizio's VTAB could take Android Tablet prices to
> new, stomach-churning levels for the top tablet OEMs._


----------



## Cholly

I updated my ViewSonic gTablet (purchased from Woot last month for $275) the other day to Honeycomb (Android 3.0.2) using the GtabComb beta 3.2 ROM from Slatedroid.com. The gTablet is a Tegra 2 based tablet with 16G internal storage, and I have a 32 Gig MicroSD card installed. With this ROM, I've upgraded from Android 2.2 (Froyo), which is really a Smart Phone OS, and now have access to the Android Marketplace. I've downloaded several free apps so far, including Angry Birds (of course:grin, local news and weather and Words With Friends, which I can now play with my three kids. I'm still learning how to use the new apps available by default on the new ROM. Great improvement over the stock gTablet; much faster, and the stock unit didn't have Android Market access, only Handango.


----------



## Steve

From Reuters news. Aside from the Win 7 tablet, not much new here, IMHO, except a model with an optional pen. I've always been a Thinkpad fan, tho. Kudos to Lenovo for continuing to build them as well as IBM did.



> Lenovo today introduced a trio of new tablet computers, two running Google's Android 3.1 operating system and the third powered by Microsoft Windows 7. The Wi-Fi tablets, which leverage the ThinkPad and IdeaPad brands, range in price from $479 to $589 depending on model, storage capacity and an optional pen for one. The company will also offer a $99 keyboard portfolio case for at least one of the new tablets. Both Android tablets are comparably equipped, running on Nvidia's Tegra 2 processor and are the first Honeycomb devices to be certified for Netflix playback. [*more*]


----------



## TBlazer07

Except Kindle, HP & Nook. in store only:

http://reg.e.staples.com/c/s/tagfrm...Wkpnb0JDamNBQUV5VUh6SUFBQU1U&PID=552179&n=927

They may have Asus Transofrmer, Toshiba Thrive and Samsung 10.1 depending on store.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> Except Kindle, HP & Nook. in store only:
> 
> http://reg.e.staples.com/c/s/tagfrm...Wkpnb0JDamNBQUV5VUh6SUFBQU1U&PID=552179&n=927
> 
> They may have Asus Transofrmer, Toshiba Thrive and Samsung 10.1 depending on store.


Seems kind of early in the game to have a fire sale on tablets. I wonder what's up? :scratchin


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> Seems kind of early in the game to have a fire sale on tablets. I wonder what's up? :scratchin


 They had a $50 off up till last week. Double or nothing.

Played with a Tosh Thrive today. Screen is poor compared to all the others (side by side) and the thing is so heavy/clunky/thick that you may as well just get a netbook.


----------



## Cholly

TBlazer07 said:


> Except Kindle, HP & Nook. in store only:
> 
> http://reg.e.staples.com/c/s/tagfrm...Wkpnb0JDamNBQUV5VUh6SUFBQU1U&PID=552179&n=927
> 
> They may have Asus Transofrmer, Toshiba Thrive and Samsung 10.1 depending on store.


According to next week's flyer locally, the Acer Iconia is $399 - take $100 off that and just $299 and change for a tablet with Tegra 2 processor and Android Honeycomb 3.0. Sweet! :grin:


----------



## Steve

Cholly said:


> According to next week's flyer locally, the Acer Iconia is $399 - take $100 off that and just $299 and change for a tablet with Tegra 2 processor and Android Honeycomb 3.0. Sweet! :grin:


Tempting, assuming they'll apply the coupon to a sale item. And I don't see any language on the coupon that say they won't. Seems too good to be true, tho.

That said, I don't think I'd like seeing the touch screen "grid" all the time, as this review points out. I'd have to see it for myself, I guess.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Tempting, assuming they'll apply the coupon to a sale item. And I don't see any language on the coupon that say they won't. Seems too good to be true, tho.
> 
> That said, I don't think I'd like seeing the touch screen "grid" all the time, as this review points out. I'd have to see it for myself, I guess.


I don't remember seeing a grid, but I didn't like the Acer. Much rather have a Xoom.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I don't remember seeing a grid, but I didn't like the Acer. Much rather have a Xoom.


I'm interested in seeing the Vizio, because I like 4:3 better, at least for my use. HP is also 4:3. So's the iPad.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> I'm interested in seeing the Vizio, because I like 4:3 better, at least for my use. HP is also 4:3. So's the iPad.


 That's sooooo 90's. :lol: And only 8".

And at Costco: http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/22/vizio-tablet-tiptoes-into-retail-starting-at-costco/


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> That's sooooo 90's. :lol: And only 8".
> 
> And at Costco: http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/22/vizio-tablet-tiptoes-into-retail-starting-at-costco/


8" is why I'm curious. I want to see how legible web browsing is at that size and 768p. I actually don't think it's that cheap at $349, tho, because only single core and 8".

RE: 4:3, no contest for me. Many of the things my tablet replaces are ~ 4:3, like 8.5 x 11 docs, 8x10 photos, books, magazines, and the design of most websites, because they can't afford to ignore PC's with 4:3 displays. Most 16:9 movies I blow up to 4:3 and only lose a little of the sides, where nothing much goes on. Or if I think the movie will benefit from 16:9, I just watch 'em with black strips top and bottom. Naturally for old movies and TV shows, which I also watch a lot of, 4:3 is ideal.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> And at Costco: http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/22/vizio-tablet-tiptoes-into-retail-starting-at-costco/


Interesting they say it has an integrated IR link. I guess for remote control of non-ip enabled multimedia gear?

The little synopsis they gave of it wasn't very exciting, tho.


----------



## Steve

Speaking of small screens...



> RIM's BlackBerry PlayBook may have launched to tepid reviews from critics but the tablet has garnered a thumbs up from the federal government.
> 
> Research In Motion's PlayBook Tablet hasn't exactly been a roaring success. However, while the device has failed to match up to competitors, the device got a boost this week as it received the federal stamp of approval for government use. [*more*]


----------



## dpeters11

Well if there's one thing RIM does well, it's security (<grumble> except PDF </grumble>). No one else comes close without third party software.


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> 8" is why I'm curious. I want to see how legible web browsing is at that size and 768p. I actually don't think it's that cheap at $349, tho, because only single core and 8".
> 
> RE: 4:3, no contest for me. Many of the things my tablet replaces are ~ 4:3, like 8.5 x 11 docs, 8x10 photos, books, magazines, and the design of most websites, because they can't afford to ignore PC's with 4:3 displays. Most 16:9 movies I blow up to 4:3 and only lose a little of the sides, where nothing much goes on. Or if I think the movie will benefit from 16:9, I just watch 'em with black strips top and bottom. Naturally for old movies and TV shows, which I also watch a lot of, 4:3 is ideal.


I think you'd be surprised. 8.5 x 11 docs and 8 x 10 photos look great on my 16:9 transformer. Books and magazines also look great. I've been using a 16:9 monitor for years, so websites seem fine too. I also have all 16:9 TV's, so any video format is equally great.

I guess if I still had 4:3 displays and monitors, I'd lean toward a 4:3 tablet, but more than likely I'd just upgrade those too.


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> I think you'd be surprised. 8.5 x 11 docs and 8 x 10 photos look great on my 16:9 transformer. Books and magazines also look great. I've been using a 16:9 monitor for years, so websites seem fine too. I also have all 16:9 TV's, so any video format is equally great.
> 
> I guess if I still had 4:3 displays and monitors, I'd lean toward a 4:3 tablet, but more than likely I'd just upgrade those too.


Good point. I definitely live in both worlds here at home. On any given day, I interact with some combination of up to 5-16:9 displays (4 TV's and a Dell laptop), and up to 5-4:3 displays (1-27" Sony Wega 1080i, a Thinkpad, my 19" desktop LCD, the iPad and the iPod).


----------



## RasputinAXP

Well, when the thing doesn't come with a native email client and it's pretty much just a web browsing portal...that's pretty secure.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> Interesting they say it has an integrated IR link. I guess for remote control of non-ip enabled multimedia gear?
> 
> The little synopsis they gave of it wasn't very exciting, tho.


 On the Vizio website they say the IR Blaster supports "98% of all CE devices on the market." I just can't imagine using an 8" tablet as a remote. Maybe as a gimmick at first but that would wear off quickly.

Now considering you can buy a 16GB Samsung Galaxy Tab for $399 at Staples with the coupon I can't see this device being any kind of bargain. Even at regular $499 for the GT vs $350 for the Vizio, bleh.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> On the Vizio website they say the IR Blaster supports "98% of all CE devices on the market." I just can't imagine using an 8" tablet as a remote. Maybe as a gimmick at first but that would wear off quickly.
> 
> Now considering you can buy a 16GB Samsung Galaxy Tab for $399 at Staples with the coupon I can't see this device being any kind of bargain. Even at regular $499 for the GT vs $350 for the Vizio, bleh.


Ya. Probably because I use an iPad2, I still like the Samsung best from a h/w standpoint. What's holding me back is being beholden to Samsung's timetable for underlying o/s updates. I know that's the case with most of the competition, and I could be wrong about this, but from what I hear, Samsung's track record isn't so hot.

The wedge shape of the new Sony S1 looks like it may be comfortable to hold and also provide a lot of battery life. And I'm sure given who makes it, it will have a gorgeous screen. But it's Sony, so who knows how they're going to price it?


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I'm interested in seeing the Vizio, because I like 4:3 better, at least for my use. HP is also 4:3. So's the iPad.


I'd be interested in seeing something interesting. The whole tablet thing has kinda stopped for me. Hard to believe I could be so anxious to get my hands on them just a few months ago and now I have little interest in them. Meanwhile, my wife and granddaughter continue to use the iPad and I rarely use it at all. I'd sell it if I didn't think they'd go berserk on me. I did use it on vacation last week to check the tides. And I did listen to a couple Yankees games on it...

Rich


----------



## Groundhog45

rich584 said:


> I'd be interested in seeing something interesting. The whole tablet thing has kinda stopped for me. Hard to believe I could be so anxious to get my hands on them just a few months ago and now I have little interest in them. Meanwhile, my wife and granddaughter continue to use the iPad and I rarely use it at all. I'd sell it if I didn't think they'd go berserk on me. I did use it on vacation last week to check the tides. And I did listen to a couple Yankees games on it...
> 
> Rich


Mods, please close this thread. Rich has changed his mind...


----------



## Steve

Groundhog45 said:


> Mods, please close this thread. Rich has changed his mind...


!rolling

+1! :lol:


----------



## Steve

This is the second review I've read in two days where the Thrive's "removable" battery life was measured at about 5-6 hours, in spite of Toshiba's claims:



> Battery life averaged five to six hours of solid use each day I tested it [...] even though Toshiba professes 11 hours on a full charge. Really? With Thrive, you need to make sure that the tablet switches off WiFi when you're not using it or you will drain power fast. [*more*]


Also found this while googling. So if you plan on putting in a full day's work on one of these puppies, looks like you best carry a spare battery!


----------



## dpeters11

"RasputinAXP" said:


> Well, when the thing doesn't come with a native email client and it's pretty much just a web browsing portal...that's pretty secure.


I haven't used it, but Blackberry Bridge cold be pretty cool. When it's in range of your Blackberry you can access email and such on it, when it's not, it has nothing.

Though I admit, while I won't get rid of my Blackberry, I have an iPad.


----------



## Rich

Groundhog45 said:


> Mods, please close this thread. Rich has changed his mind...


NO, NO, NO! I change my mind constantly. If something really great pops up I do want to know about it and I still enjoy reading the posts.....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> This is the second review I've read in two days where the Thrive's "removable" battery life was measured at about 5-6 hours, in spite of Toshiba's claims:
> 
> Also found this while googling. So if you plan on putting in a full day's work on one of these puppies, looks like you best carry a spare battery!


Interesting links, thanx. As I've said before, I don't care for Toshiba products, but I was interested in this one. Not exactly a glowing review in any of the links.

By the way, does anyone know how much it costs to have a battery replaced in an iPad?

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Interesting links, thanx. As I've said before, I don't care for Toshiba products, but I was interested in this one. Not exactly a glowing review in any of the links.
> 
> By the way, does anyone know how much it costs to have a battery replaced in an iPad?


Up until the end of the first year of warranty, you can sign up for the Apple protection plan, which extends the original warranty to 2 years and covers the battery, among other things. At $79, it's what a spare Toshiba battery would cost anyway.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Up until the end of the first year of warranty, you can sign up for the Apple protection plan, which extends the original warranty to 2 years and covers the battery, among other things. At $79, it's what a spare Toshiba battery would cost anyway.


Is it $79 for two years or each year of coverage? When I asked the question, I was thinking of someone who didn't have the coverage.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Is it $79 for two years or each year of coverage? When I asked the question, I was thinking of someone who didn't have the coverage.
> 
> Rich


$79 is 2 year from date of purchase, so just extending the original 1 year warranty to 2. Not sure if you can buy it when you're out of warranty. That said, Apple usually goes above and beyond when it comes to customer service. Oppo is the only other company I've dealt with that's like them in this regard.


----------



## klang

Here is the official policy from Apple:



> Your one-year warranty includes replacement coverage for a defective battery. You can extend your coverage to two years from the date of your iPad purchase with the AppleCare Protection Plan for iPad. During the plan's coverage period, Apple will replace the battery if it drops below 50% of its original capacity. If it is out of warranty, Apple offers a battery replacement for $99, plus $6.95 shipping, subject to local tax. Apple disposes of your battery in an environmentally friendly manner.


I wonder how many batteries have actually gone bad in the short time iPads have been around?

Edit:

Poking around a bit more, it appears Apple doesn't actually replace the battery, they just send you a new device.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I wonder how many batteries have actually gone bad in the short time iPads have been around?


Ya. That's why I shied away from buying a used iPad1 on eBay. But guess what? Not an issue I've read about at all.



> Poking around a bit more, it appears Apple doesn't actually replace the battery, they just send you a new device.


I've heard you can also go into an Apple Store and they'll give you a new iOS device with your data transferred to it while you wait, whether under warranty or if you're paying a la carte.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> $79 is 2 year from date of purchase, so just extending the original 1 year warranty to 2. Not sure if you can buy it when you're out of warranty. That said, Apple usually goes above and beyond when it comes to customer service. Oppo is the only other company I've dealt with that's like them in this regard.


I bought mine with an Amex card, that extends the warranty to 2 years.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I bought mine with an Amex card, that extends the warranty to 2 years.


Ditto. Great minds think alike!


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Ditto. Great minds think alike!


And you get points for purchases that you can use on Amazon. More reason not to leave home without it.

Rich


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> $79 is 2 year from date of purchase, so just extending the original 1 year warranty to 2. Not sure if you can buy it when you're out of warranty. That said, Apple usually goes above and beyond when it comes to customer service. Oppo is the only other company I've dealt with that's like them in this regard.


 Why buy Applecare when your credit card gives you the 2nd year for free (although battery is probably not covered as it is considered a "consumable."). My former iPhone died OOW, I paid Apple $199 for a replacement and Amex reimbursed me.


----------



## Steve

3.5 stars from today's PCMag.com:


> *Pros*: Fast performance. Good multimedia features. Clever button and camera layout. Physical Home button. Netflix is preloaded.
> *Cons*: Prone to crashes. Thick. Lots of bloatware.
> *Bottom Line*: The Lenovo IdeaPad Tablet K1 is as good as its Android Honeycomb tablet competition, but doesn't offer any game-changing differentiators that make it stand out in the ever-expanding tablet space.
> 
> [*more*]


----------



## Steve

And we may see one sometime this year.



> Bucking the trend of manufacturers disappointed with tablet sales, Asus is excited about the tablet market and plans to introduce several more tablets by the end of the year, including a new Eee Pad Transformer that may run on Nvidia's quad-core Kal-El processor. [*more*]


----------



## Rich

I used my iPad today to finish a crossword puzzle. Looked up "laic" to make sure it was the right word. Almost makes it worth the $500 I paid for it....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I used my iPad today to finish a crossword puzzle. Looked up "laic" to make sure it was the right word. Almost makes it worth the $500 I paid for it....:lol:


Try Dragon Go. It's my new favorite iOS app.


----------



## Steve

... + $5 shipping at Woot.

Also $399 elsewhere, from 8/5-8/7, according to ZDNet, who also noted:


> HP has now released a major update for it and from what I hear it is what they should have launched it with.


----------



## TBlazer07

Despite the fact that it was leaked weeks ago the "official" Touch Wiz (boy do I ever hate that name :sure: ) update was available at midnight today from Samsung. There are already rooted roms for it.

What a difference. All the typing lag in the browser is gone which was the reason I dumped (no not a Touch Wiz reference) the Asus EeeeeeeeeeePad. The O/S flies. I no longer have any complaint about this device. Don't miss the lack of SD card slot 1 iota. 32gigs is 10x more than I will ever need. 

Now I just need to rationalize why I really need it. :lol: I did go away last weekend and took it instead of the laptop and it did fine. It survived a fall when I tripped over a wayward bench at the Marriott we were staying at. I took a tumble, did a job on my hamstring, and the Tab went flying and survived with less injuries than I did. It only had a couple scratches on the leather cover, a lot worse for the wear than me. I feel like I was hit by a truck.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> [...] I took a tumble, did a job on my hamstring, and the Tab went flying and survived with less injuries than I did. It only had a couple scratches on the leather cover, a lot worse for the wear than me. I feel like I was hit by a truck.


Sorry to hear that, but glad you're OK! :up:


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Did anyone notice today's woot? Pretty much a vote of no confidence for HP.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> Did anyone notice today's woot? Pretty much a vote of no confidence for HP.


Actually, it's $100 off the HP tablet across the board through Sunday, and an additional $20 more on Woot today.

One explanation I heard that fits the facts is that HP realized they screwed-up by not waiting one more month to introduce the tablet with the more stable version of WebOS that was released on 8/1. As a result, they're trying to "relaunch" it by creating some pricing buzz this week-end.

Whether or not the reviewers that were first lukewarm to the device will report on the new software remains to be seen. After using it for a month, at least one industry veteran likes the HP, even with the buggy initial s/w release.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Actually, it's $100 off the HP tablet across the board through Sunday, and an additional $20 more on Woot today.
> 
> One explanation I heard that fits the facts is that HP realized they screwed-up by not waiting one more month to introduce the tablet with the more stable version of WebOS that was released on 8/1. As a result, they're trying to "relaunch" it by creating some pricing buzz this week-end.
> 
> Whether or not the reviewers that were first lukewarm to the device will report on the new software remains to be seen. After using it for a month, at least one industry veteran likes the HP, even with the buggy initial s/w release.


I've had several HP computers and they are as close to a Mac as you could ask for. If my big desktop ever goes, it will be hard not to buy another one, which would be a Mac. I've had my big HP for several years now and it is still remarkably fast and steady. I wouldn't be surprised if HP ended up making one of the very best tablets.

Rich


----------



## Steve

According to this website, you can use this coupon to score another $100 off the HP tabs through tomorrow at Staples. In store only, though.

So 16gb wifi for $299, 32gb for $399!


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> According to this website, you can use this coupon to score another $100 off the HP tabs through tomorrow at Staples. In store only, though.
> 
> So 16gb wifi for $299, 32gb for $399!


Tempting, it is. I'm getting the urge again...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Tempting, it is. I'm getting the urge again...:lol:


I know what you mean, because it's such a great deal. That said, what is it going to do that your iPad doesn't already do? :scratchin

If you didn't already have the iPad, different story. Just my .02.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I know what you mean, but what is it going to do that your iPad doesn't already do? :scratchin
> 
> If you didn't already have the iPad, different story. Just my .02.


Yeah, you're right. I just get these urges...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

rich584 said:


> Yeah, you're right. I just get these urges...:lol:
> 
> Rich


I went and looked at it today. It's kind of slow and unresponsive. Many of the touch features taken for granted on the iPad are missing. I also noticed it had a bit of trouble handling video. Took a few seconds to start playing and it would skip frames from time to time.

You aren't missing much Rich.


----------



## TBlazer07

Was in Costco yesterday for my $1.50 dog and soda. They have the 8" square Vizio in stock and on display. They also had an HP rep pacing around trying to push their tabs on anyone walking by who looks at anything else.

Vizio seems to be pushing it more as a remote than as a tablet. Pretty cheezy looking if you ask me (yea, I know .... you didn't ask me).

Why wouold anyone even consider anything other than Android or iStuff? Can't see any of the others lasting much longer before being relegated to cheap sales on woot.


----------



## Steve

I'm curious to see how Samsung prices this. I'd like to see $100 less than the 10.1", so maybe $299 after a Staples coupon? 

Video here. (Can't get it to embed, for some reason. :scratchin)

*EDIT:* According to this site, the 8.9 will be priced _*higher*_ than the 10.1, at least in the UK! :eek2:


> Amazon UK list price £ 605 (USD991) for the Samsung Galaxy Tab 8.9, which means this version is higher than the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Currently, the Galaxy Tab 10.1 is priced at 569 euros (USD811).


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> I went and looked at it today. It's kind of slow and unresponsive. Many of the touch features taken for granted on the iPad are missing. I also noticed it had a bit of trouble handling video. Took a few seconds to start playing and it would skip frames from time to time.
> 
> You aren't missing much Rich.


Thanx, that makes me feel better.

Rich


----------



## Steve

I thought this *DisplayMate Technologies* report was a very interesting read.

The second to last test result stood out to me. When they measured the power each tablet consumed to produce the same brightness (325 cd/m²), the Sammy used about 50% more power (3.3v). As a result, at mid-brightness setting, the Sammy battery only lasted *6.6* hours, vs. *8.3-11.8* hours for the four other tablets measured.

Another interesting tidbit is the claim that 12" from the display, a person with 20/20 vision can resolve *286 PPI*, and a person with 20/10 vision can resolve *572 PPI*! I didn't confirm this elsewhere, but I have no reason to doubt the author.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I thought this *DisplayMate Technologies* report was a very interesting read.
> 
> The second to last test result stood out to me. When they measured the power each tablet consumed to produce the same brightness (325 cd/m²), the Sammy used about 50% more power (3.3v). As a result, at mid-brightness setting, the Sammy battery only lasted *6.6* hours, vs. *8.3-11.8* hours for the four other tablets measured.
> 
> Another interesting tidbit is the claim that 12" from the display, a person with 20/20 vision can resolve *286 PPI*, and a person with 20/10 vision can resolve *572 PPI*! I didn't confirm this elsewhere, but I have no reason to doubt the author.


Thanx, very interesting. Overall, if I read it correctly, the Galaxy looks like the best of the group tested. Now, if I just had a reason to buy one...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Thanx, very interesting. Overall, if I read it correctly, the Galaxy looks like the best of the group tested.


By a whisker, tho. And is the difference worth the hit on "mid-brightness" battery life, compared to your iPad2? 6.6 hours vs. 11.8 hours?


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> By a whisker, tho. And is the difference worth the hit on "mid-brightness" battery life, compared to your iPad2? 6.6 hours vs. 11.8 hours?


Nope, I read that too and wondered why they gave the Galaxy such a high rating. Thing is, I don't seem to get that many hours on the iPad either, but when my wife and granddaughter use it, they use it continuously and it seems as if the battery goes down quicker than I'd expect it to. Might be my imagination, tho.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Nope, I read that too and wondered why they gave the Galaxy such a high rating. Thing is, I don't seem to get that many hours on the iPad either, but when my wife and granddaughter use it, they use it continuously and it seems as if the battery goes down quicker than I'd expect it to. Might be my imagination, tho.


We probably average a couple of hours a day of use on our iPad2, including radio through the external speakers during breakfast, at pretty high volume. After over 4 months of use, it gets charged about once every 5 days.

I'm not sure if it's as important for Li-Ion as it is for NiMH, but I like to run it down to 5% or less, thinking it will help prolong battery life. :shrug:


----------



## Drucifer

> *Summary:* Apple gets an injunction against the Galaxy Tab in Europe based on some very generic line drawings.
> . . . .
> But according to Nicole Scott of _Netbook News_, the patent could essential block ALL tablets, irrespective of operating system or maker.


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/...-oems-from-building-tablets/14175?tag=nl.e550

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-000181607-0001


----------



## RasputinAXP

Just nauseating.


----------



## bobukcat

RasputinAXP said:


> Just nauseating.


Agreed, I don't know how they get these patents awarded in the first place. The iPad was not even close to being the first tablet computer on the market, just the most successful. I guess it's a good thing Palm didn't patent a generic drawing of a handheld device with a screen on the front way back when or none of the current smartphones (including the iPhone) could be imported. :nono:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> We probably average a couple of hours a day of use on our iPad2, including radio through the external speakers during breakfast, at pretty high volume. After over 4 months of use, it gets charged about once every 5 days.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's as important for Li-Ion as it is for NiMH, but I like to run it down to 5% or less, thinking it will help prolong battery life. :shrug:


I let battery technology kinda pass me by. They're usually user friendly and you can always get instructions on the net. I do remember when batteries you could run down completely (5% is pretty close) were rare and they cost a fortune. Golf scooters and fork lifts used them.

Rich


----------



## Steve

For those with good eyes, the new 7" Acer Iconia 100 is now shipping. $329 at Walmart with 8GB. $349 elsewhere with 16GB.

http://tablets-planet.com/2011/08/12/acer-launches-the-worlds-first-7-inch-android-honeycomb-tablet/

Battery life is < 5 hours.

*EDIT*: Here's Engadget's review.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> I'm not sure if it's as important for Li-Ion as it is for NiMH, but I like to run it down to 5% or less, thinking it will help prolong battery life. :shrug:


Actually that's bad as is fully charging it then discharging it fully. Some interesting reading here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> Actually that's bad as is fully charging it then discharging it fully. Some interesting reading here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries


Thanks, *TB*! Learned a lot I didn't know from that link. The part that deals specifically with charging Li-Ion batteries is here:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

This table was very helpful as well: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_charge_when_to_charge_table


----------



## paulman182

The fact that we don't know how low the battery really is when the processor in a device shuts itself off makes a chart like this almost useless.


----------



## Steve

paulman182 said:


> The fact that we don't know how low the battery really is when the processor in a device shuts itself off makes a chart like this almost useless.


That may be true, but I still found it helpful. E.g., I had no idea that, for Li-Ion polymer, _"Deep discharge wears the battery down."_ I've been running my iPad2 battery down to 5%, thinking I was doing a _good _thing!


----------



## Steve

Looks like RIM may be cutting their losses.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Sprint-RIM-mutually-decide-to-scrap-PlayBook-4G-release/1313189340



> About 500,000 PlayBooks were sold as of June, however RIM also announced it had missed earnings targets by a significant margin and began laying off employees. It could be that executives have decided investing too much of the company's limited capital in the device may not be the best business decision, and have thus begun to pull back.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> That may be true, but I still found it helpful. E.g., I had no idea that, for Li-Ion polymer, _"Deep discharge wears the battery down."_ I've been running my iPad2 battery down to 5%, thinking I was doing a _good _thing!


I suspect the 5% displayed is not the real number. I think the device will not allow you to run it so low you can damage the battery.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I suspect the 5% displayed is not the real number. I think the device will not allow you to run it so low you can damage the battery.


Fingers-crossed you're right, and that the reverse is true as well. 100% is not really 100%.



> Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery.


----------



## Steve

> Google Inc. (GOOG), maker of the Android mobile-phone software, agreed to buy Motorola Mobility Holdings Inc. for about $12.5 billion, gaining wireless patents. [*more*]


 Does this mean Google now owns the Xoom and Droid smartphone product lines as well? Will be interesting to know, as more of this story unfolds!


----------



## Cholly

Steve said:


> Does this mean Google now owns the Xoom and Droid smartphone product lines as well? Will be interesting to know, as more of this story unfolds!


Short answer: Yes. (Once the deal is finalized, that is). For discussion of the acquisition, use the following thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=195828


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> Looks like RIM may be cutting their losses.
> 
> http://www.betanews.com/article/Sprint-RIM-mutually-decide-to-scrap-PlayBook-4G-release/1313189340


A nephew of mine got a job with RIM (some sort of FED GOV marketing division) back in June after kolidge graduation. He just got layed off about 2 weeks ago. The joke was he got hired then got a rim job. Fortunately he still can live at home.

Seriously though, I can't imagine how RIM or HP can even make a dent in the market.


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> A nephew of mine got a job with RIM (some sort of FED GOV marketing division) back in June after kolidge graduation. He just got layed off about 2 weeks ago. The joke was he got hired then got a rim job. Fortunately he still can live at home.


Sucks. I feel bad for him that was his first experience in the workforce.



> Seriously though, I can't imagine how RIM or HP can even make a dent in the market.


IMHO, HP might have been able to gain some market share had they waited a month to release a bug free OS, and initially priced the 16gb wifi tablet at $349, as I suggested back in June. I'm not sure what the big rush was for a July vs. August debut, knowing they were a few weeks away from a much more stable s/w release and (b) thinking they could command a premium price in an already overcrowded market. :nono2:

I haven't paid much attention to what went wrong with the Playbook, but I assume RIM thought their existing corporate phone base would remain loyal at whatever price they set for it.


----------



## Chris Blount

If true, this is pretty interesting:

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/17/best-buy-seeing-hp-touchpad-sell-through-rate-of-under-10/


----------



## Steve

That HP news led to this ZDNet opinion piece on tablets in general. I'm not sure I agree with everything that's being said, tho. I think price is the biggest obstacle. iPad buyers apparently don't mind paying the "apple tax". I think android (and webOS) fans expect their tablets to be more competitively priced than they are. Just my .02.



> Why can't non-iPads sell? It's not like products such as Honeycomb tablets or the webOS-based TouchPad aren't acceptable to the market. They may not match the iPad in every area but by and large they are mostly functionally equivalent. It seems that all of the tablets don't appeal to the same market that is attracted to the iPad, which continues to sell as fast as Apple can make them. [*more*]


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> That HP news led to this ZDNet opinion piece on tablets in general. I'm not sure I agree with everything that's being said, tho. I think price is the biggest obstacle. iPad buyers apparently don't mind paying the "apple tax". I think android (and webOS) fans expect their tablets to be more competitively priced than they are. Just my .02.


That's true about pricing being an obstacle but you have to wonder about if you get what you pay for. I almost purchased one of the HP tablets when Staples had the price down but after playing with it, it just didn't seem like a very polished product.

Like them or not, the iPad is solid and works well for most people. Even my 84 year old father has no issue using it.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> That's true about pricing being an obstacle but you have to wonder about if you get what you pay for. I almost purchased one of the HP tablets when Staples had the price down but after playing with it, it just didn't seem like a very polished product.
> 
> Like them or not, the iPad is solid and works well for most people. Even my 84 year old father has no issue using it.


I hear ya. My very non-technical wife can also use the iPad as well.

In fairness to the HP, did you check out a model with the original firmware? I don't think the update came out until the first week in August. I wonder how many prospective sales HP lost due to initial pricing and not waiting a month to release the tablet with better s/w? :nono2:


----------



## TheRatPatrol

Does anyone have any experience with this tablet? Its on sale right now at Big Lots for $89.00. Link to ad. I don't own a tablet yet, but for $89.00 I figure I'd try it out and see what its like.

Thanks


----------



## Draconis

I'm late into the fray but I thought this would be helpfull.

http://www.groovypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/image230.png


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> That's true about pricing being an obstacle but you have to wonder about if you get what you pay for. I almost purchased one of the HP tablets when Staples had the price down but after playing with it, it just didn't seem like a very polished product.
> 
> Like them or not, the iPad is solid and works well for most people. Even my 84 year old father has no issue using it.


I'm tempted to put a video of my 3 year old granddaughter using my iPad on the forum. She turns it on, uses it for a while and shuts it off properly and even hooks up the charging cable to it. And she searches thru the Apps Store to find apps that interest her and then brings it to me for the password to purchase the apps. I kinda doubt that she's the only kid that does this. She discovered my son's iPod the other day and dismissed it as having too small a screen.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I'm tempted to put a video of my 3 year old granddaughter using my iPad on the forum. She turns it on, uses it for a while and shuts it off properly and even hooks up the charging cable to it. And she searches thru the Apps Store to find apps that interest her and then brings it to me for the password to purchase the apps. I kinda doubt that she's the only kid that does this. She discovered my son's iPod the other day and dismissed it as having too small a screen.


My 22-month old granddaughter can't use the app store, but she does know how to wake-up the iPad, choose among her favorite apps, play them, hit "home" to quit and select a different app!

She's probably too young for it, but next time she's over, I'm going to buy that "learning to write" app featured in some of the iPad commercials. I think it's this one.


----------



## bobukcat

Chris Blount said:


> That's true about pricing being an obstacle but you have to wonder about if you get what you pay for. I almost purchased one of the HP tablets when Staples had the price down but after playing with it, it just didn't seem like a very polished product.
> 
> Like them or not, the iPad is solid and works well for most people. Even my 84 year old father has no issue using it.


I may have posted this in another thread but I really don't know why anyone would buy a tablet with a different OS than their Smartphone (assuming they have one) or vice-versa. Given the fact that WebOS's market share is so small it's logical to me that their tablet is not going to sell very well unless it somehow does something magical that an iPad or Honeycomb tablet won't - and it doesn't. There is too much invested in both time (learning tricks), applications and possibly media as well as an integration that takes place between your smartphone, tablet and computer (iTunes, Chrome, Google Music, Amazon Music, etc.) that would make it a pain and possibly costly to use different platforms on the different devices.

As for how well non-ipads will sell I believe the Samsung 10.1 has the best shot at really selling well, mainly because it's probably the most polished hardware out right now. Others haven't matched the "wow" factor the slimness and light weight of the iPad2 has. That being said I still don't see it catching the iPad2 any time soon (or ever) as there is too much hype, or coolness factor, or whatever you want to call it built up for the Apple product.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> My 22-month old granddaughter can't use the app store, but she does know how to wake-up the iPad, choose among her favorite apps, play them, hit "home" to quit and select a different app!
> 
> She's probably too young for it, but next time she's over, I'm going to buy that "learning to write" app featured in some of the iPad commercials. I think it's this one.


I'll have to try that one. Thanx. It's kinda amazing what kids can do if you give them a chance to use complicated toys. My son had his first VCR at just over two years old and never had a problem with it.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Engadget just reported:

_*HP will 'discontinue operations for webOS devices', may spin off Personal Systems Group*_

[a bit more]


----------



## bobukcat

Steve said:


> Engadget just reported:
> 
> _*HP will 'discontinue operations for webOS devices', may spin off Personal Systems Group*_
> 
> [a bit more]


.....and the spin off will be called Palm! :grin:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Engadget just reported:
> 
> _*HP will 'discontinue operations for webOS devices', may spin off Personal Systems Group*_
> 
> [a bit more]


I wonder how the folks who own the HP tablets will make out on this? Does "discontinue operations" mean all support for the HP tablet? Will all the folks that bought them be reimbursed?

And they are gonna sell or spinoff the PC business? I'm on an HP desktop now and it's the best, fastest PC I've ever used. This sounds like they are jumping off a cliff. Is this all over a tablet that failed?

Rich


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> I may have posted this in another thread but *I really don't know why anyone would buy a tablet with a different OS than their Smartphone (assuming they have one) or vice-versa. *Given the fact that WebOS's market share is so small it's logical to me that their tablet is not going to sell very well unless it somehow does something magical that an iPad or Honeycomb tablet won't - and it doesn't. There is too much invested in both time (learning tricks), applications and possibly media as well as an integration that takes place between your smartphone, tablet and computer (iTunes, Chrome, Google Music, Amazon Music, etc.) that would make it a pain and possibly costly to use different platforms on the different devices.


I have a Droid X smart phone and an iPad and you're so right, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before. I'm really sorry I didn't wait for Verizon to get the iPhone. I don't think I was even considering a tablet when I got the Droid. Still, I should have thought the whole process out and I didn't.

Rich


----------



## Stuart Sweet

rich584 said:


> I wonder how the folks who own the HP tablets will make out on this? Does "discontinue operations" mean all support for the HP tablet? Will all the folks that bought them be reimbursed?
> 
> And they are gonna sell or spinoff the PC business? I'm on an HP desktop now and it's the best, fastest PC I've ever used. This sounds like they are jumping off a cliff. Is this all over a tablet that failed?
> 
> Rich


I'm guessing that they have seen how well IBM did by spinning off PCs and concentrating on servers and services, and they have decided that their future lies in the same direction.

HP has made a decent living with low-end PCs and a broad array of consumer printers for the last 20 years. Both those segments are intensely tight on profit margins and both are expected to keep diminishing in the future. HP might be wise to abandon them now.

I am surprised that they are walking away from tablets. Compaq, before it was part of HP, had an MP3 player before Apple, a smartphone before Apple, and a touchscreen PC that might have predated Apple's Newton (or might have come just after.) Yet they never mastered any of those segments. Compaq also had an all-in-one PC before Apple's iMac. Their Slate prototype was widely shown before the iPad, so what happened?

HP has never been cool, and cool sells. Bottom line.

On the other hand, I'm reminded that for several years, HP sold lightly-rebranded Apple products. Maybe they're dumping their own tablet to jump back into that market. Who knows?


----------



## Rich

Stuart Sweet said:


> I'm guessing that they have seen how well IBM did by spinning off PCs and concentrating on servers and services, and they have decided that their future lies in the same direction.
> 
> HP has made a decent living with low-end PCs and a broad array of consumer printers for the last 20 years. Both those segments are intensely tight on profit margins and both are expected to keep diminishing in the future. HP might be wise to abandon them now.
> 
> I am surprised that they are walking away from tablets. Compaq, before it was part of HP, had an MP3 player before Apple, a smartphone before Apple, and a touchscreen PC that might have predated Apple's Newton (or might have come just after.) Yet they never mastered any of those segments. Compaq also had an all-in-one PC before Apple's iMac. Their Slate prototype was widely shown before the iPad, so what happened?
> 
> HP has never been cool, and cool sells. Bottom line.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm reminded that for several years, HP sold lightly-rebranded Apple products. Maybe they're dumping their own tablet to jump back into that market. Who knows?


When I bought my HP desktop, I had no idea what I was buying. I thought the "coolest" computers were Macs and I didn't want to spend the money for one. I never expected the performance of the HP I bought. Now I'm thinking that I should wait a bit for a fire sale to happen and buy a new Elite model before they fold their tents.

Rich


----------



## bobnielsen

Maybe they will merge with Agilent (which is what was once HP's core business)


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> I almost purchased one of the HP tablets when Staples had the price down but after playing with it, it just didn't seem like a very polished product.


Apparently the shipping hardware platform was based on a 2 year old Palm design spec, so some of what you experienced may not have been due to just unpolished software.



> The team was even apparently able to run webOS as a web-app in the iPad 2 browser, where it [...] out-performed native code on the TouchPad slate. [*[URL="http://www.slashgear.com/hp-ipad-2-webos-testing-double-touchpad-performance-says-insider-19172970/"]more*[/URL]]


----------



## Rich

Best Buy is starting to give away the Sammy Galaxy 10.1 tablet with certain big screen TVs. They must be getting desperate.

Rich


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> Best Buy is starting to give away the Sammy Galaxy 10.1 tablet with certain big screen TVs. They must be getting desperate.
> 
> Rich


Here is a link for that story. Can Samsung claim them as 'sold' if they give them away?

Edit:

Another article a bit more harsh.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Best Buy is starting to give away the Sammy Galaxy 10.1 tablet with certain big screen TVs. They must be getting desperate.


And Amazon hasn't even entered the market yet!

It also wouldn't surprise me if some prospective buyers are waiting to see what Google does with the V2 Xoom. I know I'm very interested in what they'll come up with.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Another article a bit more harsh.


If the 46" 3d TV they mention in that article is the UN46D6400, it's probably only a $100 bundle savings, because that display is available on-line for $1100 and Best Buy wants $1499 to get the free tablet.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> If the 46" 3d TV they mention in that article is the UN46D6400, it's probably only a $100 bundle savings, because that display is available on-line for $1100 and Best Buy wants $1499 to get the free tablet.


Pretty tight margins on these kind of products. I wonder if it is Best Buy or Samsung eating the difference?


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Pretty tight margins on these kind of products. I wonder if it is Best Buy or Samsung eating the difference?


My guess is Samsung, or Best Buy wouldn't just be giving them away with the purchase of Samsung displays, IMO. There are probably other manufacturer's displays they'd like to move too, no?


----------



## billsharpe

rich584 said:


> Will *all *the folks that bought them be reimbursed?
> Rich


I understand they'll deliver checks to both buyers.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

BAZINGA


----------



## Steve

billsharpe said:


> I understand they'll deliver checks to both buyers.


!rolling


----------



## Rich

billsharpe said:


> I understand they'll deliver checks to both buyers.


Gotcha...:lol: I guess it would be kinda hard to get reimbursed for buying something like that. Caveat emptor would surely prevail.

Rich


----------



## klang

$99 Touchpad. Start your holiday shopping early! :lol:


----------



## Steve

Considering this article was posted a couple of days _before_ the HP debacle, it makes even more sense to me now that Amazon will be heavily subsidizing their tablets, to insure "instant" market share:



> *[Anaylyst Tim]* Bajarin said the *[Amazon]* tablet could cost $300 to make, but Amazon would discount it by $51 to entice consumers to buy it. The Amazon *[sic]* would expect to make up the difference in movie rentals, music downloads, Kindle book sales, other application purchases and advertising.
> 
> Amazon, using its one-click buying method as an easy-on-ramp to customers to make purchases through its Android Appstore and regular e-commerce offerings, could make back the $51 difference within 6 months and make a profit between 10 to 30 percent over the last 18 months of the device's accounting period. *more*


As a result, we could see the tablet space reduced to just three players in the near future... Apple, Amazon and Google. Google will be able to subsidize Xoom tablets with advertising, and Apple can use their app store and % of advertising and subscription revenues to keep the iPad costs competitive, if need be. So unless Samsung, Dell, Lenovo, _et al._ are heavily subsidizes by cellular carriers, I don't see how they'll be able to stay in the tablet business at sub-$300 prices.

And of course all of this will be terrible news for Microsoft, who will have try to convince those same players to produce more expensive Win 8 tablets.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> My 22-month old granddaughter can't use the app store, but she does know how to wake-up the iPad, choose among her favorite apps, play them, hit "home" to quit and select a different app!
> 
> She's probably too young for it, but next time she's over, I'm going to buy that "learning to write" app featured in some of the iPad commercials. I think it's this one.


Just tried it, she seemed to get the idea, then jumped to the frog pond app. I guess frogs are just more fun...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> !rolling


OK, seriously now. If I had bought one, could I expect the WebOs (or whatever it's called) to be supported? Or does that disappear too?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Considering this article was posted a couple of days _before_ the HP debacle, it makes even more sense to me now that Amazon will be heavily subsidizing their tablets, to insure "instant" market share:
> 
> As a result, we could see the tablet space reduced to just three players in the near future... Apple, Amazon and Google. Google will be able to subsidize Xoom tablets with advertising, and Apple can use their app store and % of advertising and subscription revenues to keep the iPad costs competitive, if need be. So unless Samsung, Dell, Lenovo, _et al._ are heavily subsidizes by cellular carriers, I don't see how they'll be able to stay in the tablet business at sub-$300 prices.
> 
> And of course all of this will be terrible news for Microsoft, who will have try to convince those same players to produce more expensive Win 8 tablets.


My God! Wouldn't you think a website like that would proofread columns before putting them online?

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> OK, seriously now. If I had bought one, could I expect the WebOs (or whatever it's called) to be supported? Or does that disappear too?


No. According to this, HP wants to keep webOS alive. They just don't want to be in the tablet/smartphone manufacturing business.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> My God! Wouldn't you think a website like that would proofread columns before putting them online?


The extraneous "the"? :lol:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> The extraneous "the"? :lol:


The whole column was filled with mistakes.

Rich


----------



## Steve

First bad news:


> A study released last week by Robert W. Baird & Co. showed that the iPad's popularity remains dominant, *but in second place, albeit a distant second place, was the TouchPad.* Of the 1100 people polled for the survey, 94.5 percent said they were interested in purchasing an iPad over any other tablet device. If they couldn't get an iPad, though, 10.3 percent of the respondents said they'd be content with a TouchPad.


Then good news: *HP decides to kill the tablet.*

Then bad news: *HP TouchPad Fire Sale Could Hurt Low-Volume Competitors*


> HP's TouchPad fire sale could drive low-volume tablet makers out of the market, further padding Apple's market share and reducing consumer choice in the long term. [*more*]


And perhaps a lesson for Amazon, Google _*and*_ Apple: *TouchPad's Lesson: Tablets Cost Too Much*


> Sure, HP's TouchPad fire sale could take sales away from low-volume tablet makers and further solidify Apple's market share. Then again, maybe those low-volume tablet makers -- HP included -- have been hurting themselves with a pricing structure that isn't attractive to most consumers. [*more*]


----------



## Cholly

I wouldn't put too much credence in the poll. The average person has been bombarded by Apple iPad ads. Tech savvy buyers could well swing a poll toward Android tablets if those people were better informed. After all, Android tablets support multitasking and Flash, neither of which is available on an iPad. Tablets by Asus, Acer and Samsung are all selling well. Now that Google is about to have the Xoom and all Motorola Mobility's patents, expect more Android sales to take off.


----------



## klang

Cholly said:


> After all, Android tablets support multitasking and Flash, neither of which is available on an iPad.


iPad does do multitasking.


----------



## Steve

Cholly said:


> After all, Android tablets support multitasking and Flash, neither of which is available on an iPad.





klang said:


> iPad does do multitasking.


And Flash is quickly becoming irrelevant, at least based on the major sites I visit on a regular basis.


----------



## Chris Blount

> First bad news:
> 
> 
> 
> A study released last week by Robert W. Baird & Co. showed that the iPad's popularity remains dominant, *but in second place, albeit a distant second place, was the TouchPad.* Of the 1100 people polled for the survey, 94.5 percent said they were interested in purchasing an iPad over any other tablet device. If they couldn't get an iPad, though, 10.3 percent of the respondents said they'd be content with a TouchPad.
Click to expand...

Looking at this as bad news depends on someone's point of view.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> And Flash is quickly becoming irrelevant, at least based on the major sites I visit on a regular basis.


I keep hearing that yet I continue to run into site after site where embedded video is flash, i.e. any local news station's website or the local newspaper's website.


----------



## RasputinAXP

klang said:


> iPad does do multitasking.


Poorly.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> Looking at this as bad news depends on someone's point of view.


I meant the Honeycomb tablet manufacturers might see it as bad news, since there were now _two_ platforms folks preferred before theirs, in that poll.


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> I keep hearing that yet I continue to run into site after site where embedded video is flash, i.e. any local news station's website or the local newspaper's website.


That's why I said major sites.  I guess the smaller sites are slower to transition, probably because they outsource their web design and it's costly to switch over. Big sites I visit like Youtube, NYTimes, MSN, CNN, ESPN, Best Buy, Amazon, Walmart, Sears, DPReview, Citibank, Chase, et al. all work find on the iPad. That wasn't the case last summer, tho.


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> klang said:
> 
> 
> 
> iPad does do multitasking.
> 
> 
> 
> Poorly.
Click to expand...

In the morning, I listen to ESPN radio while I'm reading the New York Times and still get Facetime, new mail and messages alerts. Not sure what multitasking the iPad needs to do better it isn't already doing, at least for our needs.


----------



## raott

Steve said:


> That's why I said major sites.  I guess the smaller sites are slower to transition, probably because they outsource their web design and it's costly to switch over. Big sites I visit like Youtube, NYTimes, MSN, CNN, ESPN, Best Buy, Amazon, Walmart, Sears, DPReview, Citibank, Chase, et al. all work find on the iPad. That wasn't the case last summer, tho.


I assure you, as one who doesn't just visit major websites, flash is not quickly becoming irrelevant. Will it one day, yes, the problem is that it is not now which makes the decision to not incorporate flash within iOS now foolish IMO.


----------



## Steve

raott said:


> I assure you, as one who doesn't just visit major websites, flash is not quickly becoming irrelevant. Will it one day, yes, the problem is that it is not now which makes the decision to not incorporate flash within iOS now foolish IMO.


I agree with you to a large extent. Lack of Flash support and a FaceTime camera were two reasons I passed on the _first_ generation iPad. Since I bought the iPad2 primarily for my wife's use, and she's not very technical, I decided back in March to risk that she could live without Flash, as long as she could Facetime with our grandkids. As it turns out, I use the iPad more than she does, and I'm frankly surprised that I rarely come across a site that I can't view due to lack of Flash. That's just me, tho. I'm sure there are lots of folks like you who have favorite sites that may not convert until they're due for a re-design, which could be years away!


----------



## klang

I find that I rarely use the browser on the iPad at all anymore. Most places I like to visit have apps I have installed.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Steve said:


> In the morning, I listen to ESPN radio while I'm reading the New York Times and still get Facetime, new mail and messages alerts. Not sure what multitasking the iPad needs to do better it isn't already doing, at least for our needs.


In my experience you can only have items multitasking that Apple says are allowed to multitask; items other than alerts and music aren't actually multitasked (running in the background) but suspended and put in a 'quick access' queue.

If on an Android device I task-switch to email my browser continues in the background, my streams continue and (fortunately or sometimes unfortunately) my games remain in a running state. If I've run a photo-panorama application I can flip somewhere else while it stitches the photos together in the background and don't have to worry that the system's going to merely suspend it.

I mean, I've got a 1.2GHz processor in my phone, no reason it shouldn't handle all of that.


----------



## chevyguy559

Hopefully my order goes through, but I scooped up (2) 16gb TouchPads for $224 shipped  One for me and one for wife (it helps when buying toys when you buy something for the wife :lol I have been wanting a tablet for a while, and had been toying with the idea of buying one of the cheap off brand Android ones for around $140-200 but this was a no brainer. A reputable brand name, a decent processor, and the ability to port Android on it if I end up not liking webOS plus the price....I hope my order goes through!


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> In my experience you can only have items multitasking that Apple says are allowed to multitask [...]
> 
> If on an Android device I task-switch to email my browser continues in the background, my streams continue and (fortunately or sometimes unfortunately) my games remain in a running state. If I've run a photo-panorama application I can flip somewhere else while it stitches the photos together in the background and don't have to worry that the system's going to merely suspend it.


It seems to me a reasonable trade-off to block certain background activities for the sake of improving battery life. If they're not in the foreground, should I care if my browser is streaming video in the background, or my game continues potentially CPU intensive screen rendering? OTOH, your example of a photo-stitching app is a good one that _should_ be allowed to continue, IMHO.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when decisions like this are brainstormed by the engineers who design these babies. The hardware guys screaming "You're killing my battery!", and the software guys screaming back "your battery sucks!" :lol:


----------



## RasputinAXP

Thing is, Android is Linux, and inside that's what processor priority and Niceness are for. It shouldn't be up to the OS manufacturer to determine how many cycles are devoted or not to a process. 

My background apps only use the cycles they need and if they're in an internal suspend state, they suspend and don't use CPU cycles. It's like Apple wants to put training wheels on everybody's software.


----------



## Steve

RasputinAXP said:


> Thing is, Android is Linux, and inside that's what processor priority and Niceness are for. It shouldn't be up to the OS manufacturer to determine how many cycles are devoted or not to a process.


Ya. But in this case, Apple's not _just_ the OS manufacturer.  Whenever I'm frustrated by the fact that I can't customize the way the iPad does something, I remind myself the iPad evolved from the iPod, and to Apple, it's really an appliance, as opposed to a hardware platform running an OS. That's why, when my trusty laptop finally gives up the ghost and I'm in need of another portable computer, I'll probably consider a droid tablet, to satisfy my geek side.


----------



## Steve

chevyguy559 said:


> Hopefully my order goes through, but I scooped up (2) 16gb TouchPads for $224 shipped  One for me and one for wife (it helps when buying toys when you buy something for the wife :lol I have been wanting a tablet for a while, and had been toying with the idea of buying one of the cheap off brand Android ones for around $140-200 but this was a no brainer. A reputable brand name, a decent processor, and the ability to port Android on it if I end up not liking webOS plus the price....I hope my order goes through!


Based on what I've read about the webOS 3.0.2 improvements, I think you and the Mrs. are going to get a lot of enjoyment out of these!

And in case you missed, there's a Kindle app. At worst, you bought something much more useful than the highly-regarded Nook color for less than half the price! Besides more memory and a faster CPU, you have the bigger screen, which vastly improves the browsing and video experience. :up:

Would be great to know what you think of the Beats audio technology built-in to the tablet. Was it just marketing hype? Or does it actually improve the sound? TIA.


----------



## sideswipe

Steve said:


> Based on what I've read about the webOS 3.0.2 improvements, I think you and the Mrs. are going to get a lot of enjoyment out of these!
> 
> And in case you missed, there's a Kindle app. At worst, you bought something much more useful than the highly-regarded Nook color for less than half the price! Besides more memory and a faster CPU, you have the bigger screen, which vastly improves the browsing and video experience. :up:
> 
> Would be great to know what you think of the Beats audio technology built-in to the tablet. Was it just marketing hype? Or does it actually improve the sound? TIA.


In the other webOS/HP Touchpad thread I mentioned just received this, but audio is clear & sounds better than my Toshiba Laptop. Albeit only used the radio apps & not ported any actual music to it from the PC.


----------



## Steve

sideswipe said:


> In the other webOS/HP Touchpad thread I mentioned just received this, but audio is clear & sounds better than my Toshiba Laptop. Albeit only used the radio apps & not ported any actual music to it from the PC.


Is it just good sounding stereo? Any type of faux "surround sound" effect done with 2 speakers?

Also, considering Dr. Dre put his name to it, I'm guessing Beats might offer surprisingly good bass for that form factor?


----------



## Cholly

Steve said:


> It seems to me a reasonable trade-off to block certain background activities for the sake of improving battery life. If they're not in the foreground, should I care if my browser is streaming video in the background, or my game continues potentially CPU intensive screen rendering? OTOH, your example of a photo-stitching app is a good one that _should_ be allowed to continue, IMHO.
> 
> I'd love to be a fly on the wall when decisions like this are brainstormed by the engineers who design these babies. The hardware guys screaming "You're killing my battery!", and the software guys screaming back "your battery sucks!" :lol:


Fortunately, there's an app for that on the Android Market -- Advanced Task Killer. In addition, there's a power saver app - Juice Defender. 
This is one of the true delights with Android tablets. There are countless apps that have been written by the user community to enhance performance.


----------



## klang

Cholly said:


> Fortunately, there's an app for that on the Android Market -- Advanced Task Killer. In addition, there's a power saver app - Juice Defender.
> This is one of the true delights with Android tablets. There are countless apps that have been written by the user community to enhance performance.


The need to install performance enhancing apps might be considered a detriment by some.


----------



## RasputinAXP

ATK is completely unnecessary, and has been since 2.2.


----------



## Cholly

RasputinAXP said:


> ATK is completely unnecessary, and has been since 2.2.


That may not be true with the Android hacks, such as the many flavors of Honeycomb. I'm using GtabComb 3.2 on my Viewsonic gTablet, and ATK seems to be quite comfortable there, listing apps that it can kill or has killed. The big reason as I see it is the fact that there are a lot of bundled apps that come with Android tablets that you might never want to run and just suck up power and storage.


----------



## RasputinAXP

I didn't say it wouldn't _run_, I just said it was unnecessary. 2.2+ do a very good job of managing cycles, and using ATK isn't going to save you any storage space.


----------



## Draconis

klang said:


> $99 Touchpad. Start your holiday shopping early! :lol:


Only if I can load Android on it...


----------



## sideswipe

Steve said:


> Is it just good sounding stereo? Any type of faux "surround sound" effect done with 2 speakers?
> 
> Also, considering Dr. Dre put his name to it, I'm guessing Beats might offer surprisingly good bass for that form factor?


I'll give you more feedback soon, ordered an Iconia 500 when they went on sale (suppost to have been my 1st tablet) for $398 with $100 e-gift card but its not due to be here til tomorrow so can give you a an honest comparison on how they are between the 2.


----------



## Steve

sideswipe said:


> I'll give you more feedback soon, ordered an Iconia 500 when they went on sale (suppost to have been my 1st tablet) for $398 with $100 e-gift card but its not due to be here til tomorrow so can give you a an honest comparison on how they are between the 2.


Thanks.

In case you missed, PCMag listed some of their Touchpad app picks here, this morning.


----------



## Rich

RasputinAXP said:


> I didn't say it wouldn't _run_, I just said it was unnecessary. 2.2+ do a very good job of managing cycles, and using ATK isn't going to save you any storage space.


I gather that's why my Droid X has been running very well without ATK for a while?

Rich


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Thanks.
> 
> In case you missed, PCMag listed some of their Touchpad app picks here, this morning.


Pretty skimpy selection. Even at $99, it seems like a waste of money, no?

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Pretty skimpy selection. Even at $99, it seems like a waste of money, no?


I think it's a fabulous bargain, but you're not the only person to say this, and I don't get it. For someone _without _a tablet, what more could you want for $99? :scratchin

Web browsing, e-mail, e-books, video player (with supposedly _"better than iPad"_ audio), Facebook, Twitter, word processing, local search engine, a few games.. It even supports Flash, if that's your thing.

All on an iPad sized and quality screen, with a dual-core CPU! And at 1.6 pounds, heavier than the 1.3 pound Galaxy and iPad, but comparable to the Xoom (1.6 pounds) and Asus (1.5 pounds).

When you look at what it can do, vs. what it can't, seems like a no-brainer to me for a lot of folks' needs.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I think it's a fabulous bargain, but you're not the only person to say this, and I don't get it. For someone _without _a tablet, what more could you want for $99? :scratchin
> 
> Web browsing, e-mail, e-books, video player (with supposedly _"better than iPad"_ audio), Facebook, Twitter, word processing, local search engine, a few games.. It even supports Flash, if that's your thing.
> 
> All on an iPad sized and quality screen, with a dual-core CPU! And at 1.6 pounds, heavier than the 1.3 pound Galaxy and iPad, but comparable to the Xoom (1.6 pounds) and Asus (1.5 pounds).
> 
> When you look at what it can do, vs. what it can't, seems like a no-brainer to me for a lot of folks' needs.


Gotta admit I was tempted to buy one.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Gotta admit I was tempted to buy one.


Same here. I actually went to the HP site to buy one, but they were out of stock by the time I got there. When I slept on it, tho, I felt better about not getting it. With an iPad2 in the house, an iPod, 2 laptops and a desktop PC, the HP would have been underutilized. If I didn't have a tablet at all, tho, I definitely would have pulled the trigger early on one of those.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Same here. I actually went to the HP site to buy one, but they were out of stock by the time I got there. When I slept on it, tho, I felt better about not getting it. With an iPad2 in the house, an iPod, 2 laptops and a desktop PC, the HP would have been underutilized. If I didn't have a tablet at all, tho, I definitely would have pulled the trigger early on one of those.


Yup, I've been trying to control my "urges" a bit better....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Yup, I've been trying to control my "urges" a bit better....:lol:


Ditto. 

Just having read this PCMag opinion piece, I'm even more comfortable with my decision:



> *Don't Buy an HP TouchPad to Run Android*
> 
> So I hear thousands of people are buying HP TouchPads because they want to run Android on the tablets, an operating system which does not yet run on the TouchPad. Stop now. You must stop. If you're buying a TouchPad in the hope that soon "TouchDroid" will have a great, stable, fast version of Android for it, you are falling into a major geek trap.
> 
> *Never, ever buy a product based on a feature it doesn't have.* [*more*]


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Ditto.
> 
> Just having read this PCMag opinion piece, I'm even more comfortable with my decision:


Thanx for the link, I'm feeling better about passing that deal up now.

Rich


----------



## bobnielsen

I realize there is some risk, but I'd still buy one *if* I could find one at that price. Everybody seems to be sold out.


----------



## klang

Slate article speculates on what an Amazon tablet might be.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Slate article speculates on what an Amazon tablet might be.


Thanks for sharing. I thought this quote summed up the iPad's success very nicely.



> People don't buy an iPad because they want to replace a PC; they buy it because they want to escape their PC. The iPad offers a way of doing some of what you do on your computer-email, the Web, and videos-in a more convenient, hassle-free environment. On account of that, the rivals' argument that they can do more than the iPad doesn't make sense. In the tablet market, doing more stuff with a worse user experience isn't as good as doing less but doing it better.


And this is excellent advice for Amazon, IMHO:



> So here's another idea: Someone ought to make a tablet that sets out to do less than the iPad-but better. I'm thinking of a tablet that doesn't claim to be faster, doesn't try to run Flash, doesn't try to do video-conferencing or movie editing, won't attempt multitasking, and doesn't match the iPad's battery life. But what it does do, it will do beautifully. [...]
> 
> The key for Amazon would be to market the device carefully, avoiding any suggestion that this is a do-it-all device. In fact, don't even call this a "tablet"-that name alone raises expectations that it will be something like the iPad, and Amazon should resist any such comparison. Instead, the perfect Amazon tab would be much closer to the Kindle: a device for consuming Amazon's content. Call it the Kindle Plus-and watch it fly off the shelves.


----------



## chevyguy559

Well, my order was cancelled for the HP TouchPad for lack of stock from OnSale via Amazon...going to give it one last shot whenever HP's stock replenished online, otherwise I'm gonna sit out for a while....


----------



## Rich

chevyguy559 said:


> Well, my order was cancelled for the HP TouchPad for lack of stock from OnSale via Amazon...going to give it one last shot whenever HP's stock replenished online, otherwise I'm gonna sit out for a while....


Might be the best thing to do. The whole Android pricing thing might come way down as the competition heats up and we'll see much cheaper prices.

I'd buy a Galaxy 10.1 for $99....:lol:

Rich


----------



## sideswipe

ok so side by side comparison TouchPad vs Iconia 500:

ease of use = Touchpad everything is swipe to close or minimize vs having to force close some apps on the android

sound Touchpad = the Beats that HP invested in was a very worthwhile investment for consumers rich sound and loud (had to turn pad down to hear my game on tv lol)

angry birds = 1 on Touchpad & 3 on Android free (why would anyone pay for this?) game is same on both

Facebook = the app on Touchpad is far more friendly than Android (still trying to find 1 I really enjoy but went through 3 and still looking)

ereader = android hands down - HP only has Kindle where as you can pick your poison on android

screen = love my Iconia over the Touchpad

I will keep both tablets as they are for now and when/if the wife complains she wants an android i will just upgrade hers. I still prefer my Iconia over the Touchpad even in the early learning stages due to the App market and screen. However I would never turn down a Touchpad it is a great first or secondary tablet.

also battery life I do see where the Touchpads is weaker than my Iconia's but that was in the reviews I read before I bought so knew that going in


----------



## Steve

sideswipe said:


> ok so side by side comparison TouchPad vs Iconia 500:
> 
> ease of use = Touchpad everything is swipe to close or minimize vs having to force close some apps on the android
> 
> sound Touchpad = the Beats that HP invested in was a very worthwhile investment for consumers rich sound and loud (had to turn pad down to hear my game on tv lol)
> 
> angry birds = 1 on Touchpad & 3 on Android free (why would anyone pay for this?) game is same on both
> 
> Facebook = the app on Touchpad is far more friendly than Android (still trying to find 1 I really enjoy but went through 3 and still looking)
> 
> ereader = android hands down - HP only has Kindle where as you can pick your poison on android
> 
> screen = love my Iconia over the Touchpad
> 
> I will keep both tablets as they are for now and when/if the wife complains she wants an android i will just upgrade hers. I still prefer my Iconia over the Touchpad even in the early learning stages due to the App market and screen. However I would never turn down a Touchpad it is a great first or secondary tablet.
> 
> also battery life I do see where the Touchpads is weaker than my Iconia's but that was in the reviews I read before I bought so knew that going in


If you didn't own a tablet and had the opportunity to choose between a $99 Touchpad and a $299 Iconia, do you think the Iconia is worth the extra $200? Just curious. 

I ask, because I'm wondering what impact the HP fire sale will have on the other Android tablet manufacturers this quarter. IOW, how many "first time buyers" were lost as a result.


----------



## sideswipe

I ordered my Iconia about 2 or 3 days before the fire sale, but I did enough research to know what I wanted, I would still have my Iconia for the features it offers. However once they upgrade the TouchDroid from Froyo to Honeycomb(or Ice Cream Sandwich) then I may regret not getting 2 or even 3 of the HP's (on the fire sale only) over the Iconia

HDMI out and expandable SD are the 2 big things


----------



## Steve

HP and Apple aside, Fast Company magazine is reporting today that only between 10%-15% of tablets _shipped_ have actually been _sold_.

If the estimate is correct, Samsung has reportedly shipped 2 million Galaxy tabs, and Acer 2.5 million Iconia tabs. If only 15% of those have sold, that means about 3.8 million of just those two tablets are sitting on store shelves, not to mention Asus's, Moto's and others.

I haven't read a story saying this, but seems to me that if the rumor is true and the Amazon tablets due out in October will be subsidized, to keep the price at $300, retailers are going to want to clear inventory before then. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see fire sales at the retail level in the next couple of weeks. If not, then probably concurrent with the Amazon tablet launch.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> HP and Apple aside, Fast Company magazine is reporting today that only between 10%-15% of tablets _shipped_ have actually been _sold_.
> 
> If the estimate is correct, Samsung has reportedly shipped 2 million Galaxy tabs, and Acer 2.5 million Iconia tabs. If only 15% of those have sold, that means about 3.8 million of just those two tablets are sitting on store shelves, not to mention Asus's, Moto's and others.
> 
> I haven't read a story saying this, but seems to me that if the rumor is true and the Amazon tablets due out in October will be subsidized, to keep the price at $300, retailers are going to want to clear inventory before then. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see fire sales at the retail level in the next couple of weeks. If not, then probably concurrent with the Amazon tablet launch.


Urges, I feel urges...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Urges, I feel urges...:lol:


:lol: Gotta wait and see what Amazon's tab is like, IMHO, so you don't kick yourself, if it's something that appeals to you.

My guess is the Amazon won't be a "hacker's" tablet, but more like the iPad and Nook Color, offering a somewhat "controlled" user experience... especially if Amazon is subsidizing it against future sales on Amazon.com.


----------



## klang

$700 HTC Jetstream tablet.

Over-priced, over-weight, thick and no Wi-Fi. A winning combination?


----------



## Steve

Talk about high expectations! Today's *ZDNet* _10 "Hottest" Tablets_ list puts the Amazon tablet at #2, and we know nothing about it! :lol:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/leaderboard-the-10-hottest-tablets-of-2011-updated/56840?tag=nl.e539


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> $700 HTC Jetstream tablet.
> 
> Over-priced, over-weight, thick and no Wi-Fi. A winning combination?


Pricing is absurd, IMHO. Especially with no wifi. Didn't they learn _anything _from the initial Xoom pricing? :scratchin

Spec wise, seems about the same thickness as all of them, except Apple and Samsung (and Toshiba, at the other extreme). Weight wise, Asus is 1.5 lbs., Xoom 1.6. This one's 1.56, so average, excluding Sammy and Apple.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Talk about high expectations! Today's *ZDNet* _10 "Hottest" Tablets_ list puts the Amazon tablet at #2, and we know nothing about it! :lol:
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/leaderboard-the-10-hottest-tablets-of-2011-updated/56840?tag=nl.e539


Makes me question his opinions in general if he gives #2 to complete vaporware.


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> $700 HTC Jetstream tablet.
> 
> Over-priced, over-weight, thick and no Wi-Fi. A winning combination?


I can't see that flying off the shelves.

Rich


----------



## Cholly

klang said:


> $700 HTC Jetstream tablet.
> 
> Over-priced, over-weight, thick and no Wi-Fi. A winning combination?


Not necessarily - it supports 4G LTE, which AT&T is rolling out, so WiFi (in ATT's mind) is unessential. As long as you're in an AT&T 4G LTE service area, you'll have connectivity. In that case, WiFi really isn't that important, since you'd have to be near an unprotected hotspot in order to use it. As previously stated, the weight and thickness aren't too unusual.


----------



## Cholly

klang said:


> $700 HTC Jetstream tablet.
> 
> Over-priced, over-weight, thick and no Wi-Fi. A winning combination?


Not necessarily - it supports 4G LTE, which AT&T is rolling out, so WiFi (in ATT's mind) is unessential. As long as you're in an AT&T 4G LTE service area, you'll have connectivity. In that case, WiFi really isn't that important, since you'd have to be near an unprotected hotspot in order to use it. As previously stated, the weight and thickness aren't too unusual. With 4G LTE support, that implies that the tablet can also be used as a smart phone.


----------



## TBlazer07

Cholly said:


> Not necessarily - it supports 4G LTE, which AT&T is rolling out, so WiFi (in ATT's mind) is unessential. As long as you're in an AT&T 4G LTE service area, you'll have connectivity. In that case, WiFi really isn't that important, since you'd have to be near an unprotected hotspot in order to use it. As previously stated, the weight and thickness aren't too unusual.


If you're not one of the 1,234 people in an AT&T LTE area you're in trouble.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> Talk about high expectations! Today's *ZDNet* _10 "Hottest" Tablets_ list puts the Amazon tablet at #2, and we know nothing about it! :lol:
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/leaderboard-the-10-hottest-tablets-of-2011-updated/56840?tag=nl.e539


 I think the tablet is the biggest "buy it and after the first month's newness wears off forget it" item of the decade. Yea Yea, I know, all the geeks around these parts use it 24hrs a day but I'm talking about the average Joe or Jane who buys one on impulse.

I got the Galaxy 10.1 on June 18th and if it were a car it would probably have less than 200 miles on it. :lol: Don't get me wrong, it's a great toy but there is nothing it can't do that my 4.5" Infuse (Android) phone can't do and that I can keep in my pocket.

When the Amazonian comes out, if it's only $300 I might get a full refund on the Sammy (I have 6 months for a refund thanks to Amex) and play with that one. $300 seems like a reasonable price. You can be sure that within a week of it's release the Amazon tablet will be rooted/hacked and running anything anyone wants on it.

That being said what breaks me up when I go to a mall a see people walking around typing email or SMS on a Tablet they carry around on a sling over their shoulder or in a huge pocket book. :lol:


----------



## Steve

New Sony S1 made its debut yesterday, and it looks gorgeous! iPad pricing, tho. 

Will be interesting to see what reviewers have to say about the form factor. It's like an 8.5x11 sheet of paper folder over in portrait mode, which holds it slightly angled lying flat on a table, so probably very readable in landscape mode, and it shifts the center of weight into the palm of your hand in portrait mode. This first look described it as feeling lighter than it's 1.3 pound weight (~ same as Galaxy and iPad2).

It has an IR emitter, so it can be used as a universal remote, and Sony has their own version of Apple's "Airplay", that allows audio and video from the tablet to be "flicked" to DLNA enabled displays and other compatible audio/video devices. Finally, it's PS One certified, so it can play those games.

Impressive, IMO, web page here: http://discover.store.sony.com/tablet/#intro


----------



## Steve

TBlazer07 said:


> I think the tablet is the biggest "buy it and after the first month's newness wears off forget it" item of the decade. Yea Yea, I know, all the geeks around these parts use it 24hrs a day but I'm talking about the average Joe or Jane who buys one on impulse.


I think the average Jane/Joe who perceives the tablet as an "appliance" to do certain tasks (read the news, e-books, check mail, look at photos, play games, etc.) gets lots of use out of them. I've got about a half-dozen non-technical friends and family who have essentially given up using their computers entirely, since they got their iPads. :shrug:

I'm still about 70/30 computer vs. tablet, which is one of the reasons I haven't yet pulled the trigger on a second tablet here. That new Sony sure looks tempting, tho.  I've also got a close friend who is a major Sony dealer, so I can probably pick it up at quite a discount. Hmmm.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I think the average Jane/Joe who perceives the tablet as an "appliance" to do certain tasks (read the news, e-books, check mail, look at photos, play games, etc.) gets lots of use out of them. I've got about a half-dozen non-technical friends and family who have essentially given up using their computers entirely, since they got their iPads. :shrug:
> 
> I'm still about 70/30 computer vs. tablet, which is one of the reasons I haven't yet pulled the trigger on a second tablet here. That new Sony sure looks tempting, tho.  I've also got a close friend who is a major Sony dealer, so I can probably pick it up at quite a discount. Hmmm.


Oooh, urges! I got urges....:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Oooh, urges! I got urges....:lol:


Last time I had urges, I bought the Mrs. an iPad2. Haven't had any Android urges to date... until I saw that Sony web page this morning. Will be interesting to read a _really_ in-depth review of it.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Last time I had urges, I bought the Mrs. an iPad2. Haven't had any Android urges to date... until I saw that Sony web page this morning. Will be interesting to read a _really_ in-depth review of it.


I usually read all your links, but I'm not gonna open up that one...:lol:

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I usually read all your links, but I'm not gonna open up that one...:lol:


If you have a mouse with a scroll wheel, works real nice!


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> If you have a mouse with a scroll wheel, works real nice!


Nope, not gonna open that link, I gotta thing for Sony products.

Rich


----------



## Steve

And so the lessons learned from the HP firesale begin! I'll bet Amazon's none too pleased to see this. Their first tablet is supposedly going to be a 7-incher, and speculation was it would be ~ $199.



> Lenovo announced a new US$199 IdeaPad tablet with a 7-inch screen and Google's Android OS in response to the surge in demand for inexpensive tablets, the company said on Thursday.
> 
> The IdeaPad A1 tablet weighs around 400 grams (0.88 pounds) and is under 0.5 inches (1.27 centimeters) thick, and will become available in specific starting around the end of September, said Nick Reynolds, executive director of global marketing at Lenovo. The tablet provides seven hours of battery life. [*more*]


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> Last time I had urges, I bought the Mrs. an iPad2. Haven't had any Android urges to date... until I saw that Sony web page this morning. Will be interesting to read a _really_ in-depth review of it.


Unfortunately, all that glitters is not gold. First couple of Sony S1 reviews I read are mixed. 

The Washington Post's Josh Topolsky called it _"A handsome device with software issues."_ [*more*]

And Gizmodo had this to say about the hardware:


> The 9.4-inch, 1280x800 screen is quite good-less reflective than most-but it's a bit dim. And soft. It got seriously scratched during a totally routine photo shoot-we've put tablets through far worse without a nick.
> 
> [...] The build quality doesn't seem up to snuff. It's extremely plasticky. It compresses too easily. Parts wiggle a little that probably shouldn't. Even the screen has a lot of flex to it if you give it a little pressure. They used some sort of thinner, cheaper glass to save on weight, but it felt like if you dropped this thing it would smash into a million pieces. This is definitely not Gorilla Glass, and it's obvious that it should be. [*more*]


----------



## spartanstew

Disappointing to read some of those reviews of the Sony. On paper (and they're web site), it looked stellar.

An easily scratched screen and bad build quality are deal breakers.


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> Disappointing to read some of those reviews of the Sony. On paper (and they're web site), it looked stellar.
> 
> An easily scratched screen and bad build quality are deal breakers.


For sure. I really thought Sony might have a winner on their hands. Maybe the next generation will have that form factor with Gorilla glass.

I was also very surprised to read the WP review comments about tinny audio, considering Sony's audio expertise and the fact one edge of the tablet looks thick enough to have put better speakers in there. Audio is one place the HP TouchPad apparently had everyone beat. I can tell you that iPad2 audio is very good in the mids and highs, but a bit base shy, due to the thinness of the case.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> For sure. I really thought Sony might have a winner on their hands. Maybe the next generation will have that form factor with Gorilla glass.
> 
> I was also very surprised to read the WP review comments about tinny audio, considering Sony's audio expertise and the fact one edge of the tablet looks thick enough to have put better speakers in there. Audio is one place the HP TouchPad apparently had everyone beat. I can tell you that iPad2 audio is very good in the mids and highs, but a bit base shy, due to the thinness of the case.


I really like Sony products, but when they make bad ones, they are really bad. I've tried a couple of their BD players and I didn't like them at all.

Rich


----------



## klang

TechCrunch claims to have had some hands on experience with a future Amazon Kindle (tablet). It appears Amazon is mostly after the Nook Color business with this device.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> TechCrunch claims to have had some hands on experience with a future Amazon Kindle (tablet). It appears Amazon is mostly after the Nook Color business with this device.


Nice find!

If all the facts are correct, so much for speculation Amazon would subsidize it.  The 7" Nook Color costs $250 as well. No mention of "Whispernet" access either... just wi-fi. That said, you may get a free subscription to Amazon Prime (worth $79), which gives you free shipping on all purchases and access to "instant movie streaming".

It's probably got a 1 GHZ CPU vs. the Nook Color, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Nook Color is refreshed before Christmas.

Makes that $199 7" Lenovo just announced look very attractive, especially if you want a "purer" Android experience. Just my .02.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Makes that $199 7" Lenovo just announced look very attractive, especially if you want a "purer" Android experience. Just my .02.


I have no opinion on the Android experience but some of the comments to that story were not very supportive of what Amazon has chosen to do.

Interesting they have chosen, so far anyway, to not try to go head to head with iPad.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Interesting they have chosen, so far anyway, to not try to go head to head with iPad.


Perhaps the Nook Color is a bigger thorn in their side, right now?


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Perhaps the Nook Color is a bigger thorn in their side, right now?


I think they are, smartly, attempting to sell to their existing Kindle/Amazon customer base. This is an e-reader on steroids, not a tablet PC.

Another article from TechCrunch.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I think they are, smartly, attempting to sell to their existing Kindle/Amazon customer base. This is an e-reader on steroids, not a tablet PC.


As that Slate opinion piece you found the other day suggested, better to do less properly.


----------



## Rich

My laptop went kaput a couple weeks ago and I was sitting upstairs yesterday telling my wife about the hurricane that looks like it is heading straight to NJ. She told me to bring it up on the iPad. What a difference between a real computer and the iPad when viewing Wundermaps! The tablets might be considered "computers" by many, and I'm sure they fit the definition, but I don't like using them as computers. For apps, I have no problems, but they lack the power of a good computer and I find that annoying.

Rich


----------



## mudbug

Steve said:


> Nice find!
> 
> If all the facts are correct, so much for speculation Amazon would subsidize it.  The 7" Nook Color costs $250 as well. No mention of "Whispernet" access either... just wi-fi. That said, you may get a free subscription to Amazon Prime (worth $79), which gives you free shipping on all purchases and access to "instant movie streaming".
> 
> It's probably got a 1 GHZ CPU vs. the Nook Color, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Nook Color is refreshed before Christmas.
> 
> Makes that $199 7" Lenovo just announced look very attractive, especially if you want a "purer" Android experience. Just my .02.


I have a Nook Color, but would consider the new Kindle if a free sub to Amazon Prime was included with the new Kindle.

Mudbug


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> My laptop went kaput a couple weeks ago and I was sitting upstairs yesterday telling my wife about the hurricane that looks like it is heading straight to NJ. She told me to bring it up on the iPad. What a difference between a real computer and the iPad when viewing Wundermaps! The tablets might be considered "computers" by many, and I'm sure they fit the definition, but I don't like using them as computers. For apps, I have no problems, but they lack the power of a good computer and I find that annoying.
> 
> Rich


What difference did you see? I just pulled up the Wundermap of TS Lee on my iPad and it looks the same as it does in Firefox on my iMac.

Edit:

Just noticed there is also a Wundermap app from Weather Underground. Gives most of the same stuff.


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> What difference did you see? I just pulled up the Wundermap of TS Lee on my iPad and it looks the same as it does in Firefox on my iMac.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Just noticed there is also a Wundermap app from Weather Underground. Gives most of the same stuff.


I Googled Wundermaps and got a really crappy version of it. Try that.

When I look at the maps on my big desktop, I see the hurricane with numbers, denoting the level of it, when I look at the iPad, I see blobs, no numbers. Even my Google search pages look strange. Perhaps my granddaughter got into the Settings, I have to check that. Please let me know what you see.

Rich


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> I Googled Wundermaps and got a really crappy version of it. Try that.
> 
> When I look at the maps on my big desktop, I see the hurricane with numbers, denoting the level of it, when I look at the iPad, I see blobs, no numbers. Even my Google search pages look strange. Perhaps my granddaughter got into the Settings, I have to check that. Please let me know what you see.
> 
> Rich


I've attached a screen shot from my iPad of the current Wondermap of TS Lee in Safari. No idea why you would get something different


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> I've attached a screen shot from my iPad of the current Wondermap of TS Lee in Safari. No idea why you would get something different


I dunno. I'll have to check it out. Your picture looks nothing like what I saw. Your picture looks like my computer display. When you use Google, do you get the same looking screen as when you use a computer? Mine got different all of a sudden. As I said, my granddaughter plays with it a lot and so does my wife. I rarely use it. They might have screwed up the settings in some way.

Rich


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> I've attached a screen shot from my iPad of the current Wondermap of TS Lee in Safari. No idea why you would get something different


OK, I found out what the problem was. The app looks like the best way to access the maps, but I did use Safari and got the same pictures you did. Thanx.

Rich


----------



## klang

rich584 said:


> OK, I found out what the problem was. The app looks like the best way to access the maps, but I did use Safari and got the same pictures you did. Thanx.
> 
> Rich


It is a bit disappointing that the Weather Underground app does not give you the same hurricane tracking information as the website. Hopefully they will add it.


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> It is a bit disappointing that the Weather Underground app does not give you the same hurricane tracking information as the website. Hopefully they will add it.


I downloaded the Wundermap app and it does give a similar view of the hurricane's track. Still, not as good as the website on the computer, tho.

Rich


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I think they are, smartly, attempting to sell to their existing Kindle/Amazon customer base. This is an e-reader on steroids, not a tablet PC.


More speculation along those lines, from this *Wired* article published yesterday:


> Now that Amazon controls the end-to-end relationship between suppliers of goods stacked in its warehouses and consumers of those goods using its devices, Amazon's next opportunity is to eliminate anyone who stands as a bottleneck between the two.
> 
> It's already well underway with books. Amazon's long offered authors various models to self-publish, giving them a generous cut in exchange for conditions that help keep e-book prices low.
> 
> [...] How far is Amazon willing to take this? Amazon's experience has shown that books can in turn provide a template for all kinds of media and other goods. [*more*]


----------



## Steve

From that same *Wired *piece:



> Amazon will also now be the OS platform business, not just a little bit as with the original Kindle or with its Android Appstore. With its new tablet, Amazon has now reportedly forked Android into a new platform with its own code, app and media stores, cloud services, revamped user interface, and at least partial protection from patent infringement because of Amazon's broad cross-licensing agreement with Microsoft [...]
> 
> "In a year from now," Forrester analyst Sarah Rotman Epps writes, "we could see a range of 'Amazon tablets' made by different hardware manufacturers."


----------



## braven

Here's one for you Droid freaks. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2010/11/worst-gadget-ever-ars-reviews-a-99-android-tablet.ars

I kid, I kid.


----------



## RasputinAXP

yeah. That Maylong is a piece...

of garbage.


----------



## Cholly

It's an Android Phone! No, it's a Tablet! No, It's a laptop! No, it's all of the above!
The new KT Spider Smartphone shown in Korea could well be heading to the USA next year.
Story: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2396...handheld_gaming_device.html#tk.nl_dnx_h_crawl


----------



## Steve

> (Reuters) - Next week a high-ranking Microsoft Corp executive will stand on stage and show off a new version of Windows on a tablet computer.
> 
> It won't be the first time. Chief Executive Steve Ballmer did it last year. Co-founder Bill Gates did it 10 years ago.
> 
> This time, when Windows chief Steven Sinofsky shows off an early version of its next touch-enabled, tablet-friendly operating system -- code-named Windows 8 -- to independent developers at their annual conference in Anaheim next Tuesday, there is a sense that it really matters. [*more*]


According to that article, we're probably a year away from one of those tablets hitting store shelves, so it looks like Microsoft tablet adoption will face the same uphill climb as Windows Phone 7.

I remember first testing _Windows for Pen Computing_ almost 20 years ago! :eek2:


----------



## Steve

Flash really didn't need another nail in the coffin, but they got one anyway, as more details of the Windows 8 "Metro" UI came to light this week.



> The first big blow to Flash was Apple's iOS. Now Adobe Systems' browser plug-in faces another major threat to its relevance: Microsoft has banned it and all other plug-ins from the "Metro" version of Internet Explorer 10. [*more*]


----------



## klang

That's pretty humorous considering some of the discussions I've read in this and other threads. :lol:


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> That's pretty humorous considering some of the discussions I've read in this and other threads. :lol:


Just another reason we're going to miss Steve Jobs's vision. Apple was the first company to do away with floppy drives, DVD drives, user-replaceable batteries and Flash. Now others are following suit. And the Macbook Air has spawned a few PC look-alikes, including this big bet by Intel.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Just another reason we're going to miss Steve Jobs's vision. Apple was the first company to do away with floppy drives, DVD drives, user-replaceable batteries and Flash. Now others are following suit. And the Macbook Air has spawned a few PC look-alikes, including this big bet by Intel.


I do wish they would not have shunned Blu-ray. I occasionally like to watch stuff on my iMac in the office so I have to be careful what media I buy things in.


----------



## klang

Gartner tablet sales predictions.

So does anyone ever go back and review these kind of predictions afterward?


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Gartner tablet sales predictions.
> 
> So does anyone ever go back and review these kind of predictions afterward?


Here are last October's predictions. Looks like they were +/- 10% on total tablet sales for 2010/2011.

In regards to which market segments tablets might cannibalize, last year's report said:


> The majority of the impact will be from 7-inch media tablets on high-end smartphones as it will be hard for a user to justify owning both when the differentiation in usage model is very limited. Users buying a 7-inch tablet might opt for a lower priced smartphone with a smaller form factor.


I actually think the opposite may have happened. Folks were satisfied with the capabilities of their smartphones and felt a 7" tablet wasn't a big enough jump in size, unless they were planning to use the tablet as an e-reader, like the Nook Color.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> In regards to which market segments tablets might cannibalize, last year's report said: I actually think the opposite may have happened. Folks were satisfied with the capabilities of their smartphones and felt a 7" tablet wasn't a big enough jump in size, unless they were planning to use the tablet as an e-reader, like the Nook Color.


Agreed. It seems the trend is for smart phones to get bigger rather than tablets shrinking. Of course Amazon hasn't made it's contribution yet.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Agreed. It seems the trend is for smart phones to get bigger rather than tablets shrinking. Of course Amazon hasn't made it's contribution yet.


The more I think about the Amazon tablet as I now understand it (basically an Amazon-branded Nook Color), I don't think it's going to do as well as the pundits predict. Will there really be a huge market for video or audio streaming to a 7" form factor device? And the e-book reader market seems pretty saturated with quality devices, if you ask me. I'm just not sure who's gonna want to run out and spend $250 on one of these. :scratchin

Now if they were $250 and came with $150 in "Amazon bucks", that'd be a different story. I'm not familiar with the rumored "Prime" service that may be bundled in with it, so not sure just how valuable that might be. And will that be a lifetime bundle? Or just for a year?


----------



## Cholly

Yet another newcomer to the Android tablet marketplace: the 7 inch X10 Airpad.
http://www.x10.com/promotions/airpad_7_inch_android_tablet.html


----------



## bobnielsen

Cholly said:


> Yet another newcomer to the Android tablet marketplace: the 7 inch X10 Airpad.
> http://www.x10.com/promotions/airpad_7_inch_android_tablet.html


It looks interesting, and is priced right.


----------



## Steve

So *Tech Crunch* claims Amazon's going to unveil a 7" device called a Kindle "Fire" that _won't_ be available until November. Speculation is they are announcing it early to pre-empt B&N's announcement of a _second-gen_ 7" Nook Color. Oh the games they play! :lol:



> Last Friday, Amazon sent out invites to a press conference being held this coming Wednesday. They didn't give away any details in the invite, but given our scoop earlier this month, everyone assumed it was to unveil the new Kindle tablet. We can now confirm this is correct. And we know a bit more.
> 
> On Wednesday morning in New York City, Amazon will unveil the Kindle Fire. [*more*]


----------



## Steve

Jeff Bezos just finished his presentation. If your primary use for a tablet is to consume movies, music and books from Amazon, it looks like a robust device (Gorilla glass) that should get the job done nicely. Also nicely priced at $199. Wifi-only. No 3G, camera or Amazon Prime.

Just my .02, but with the 7" screen and Amazon UI, I really don't see it as a competitor to the other Honeycomb tablets or the iPad. The Nook Color is really what's being threatened here, IMHO. Will be interesting to see what B&N has up their sleeve for their second generation product.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/amazon-unveils-199-kindle-fire-tablet.html


----------



## Steve

Also interesting. Bezos's presentation is over, but if you go to Amazon.com, you'd never know that new products are available for order or pre-order now, as he just stated. They're still showing the old Kindles at the old prices on the home page. :nono2:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Jeff Bezos just finished his presentation. If your primary use for a tablet is to consume movies, music and books from Amazon, it looks like a robust device (Gorilla glass) that should get the job done nicely. Also nicely priced at $199. Wifi-only. No 3G, camera or Amazon Prime.
> 
> Just my .02, but with the 7" screen and Amazon UI, I really don't see it as a competitor to the other Honeycomb tablets or the iPad. The Nook Color is really what's being threatened here, IMHO. Will be interesting to see what B&N has up their sleeve for their second generation product.
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/amazon-unveils-199-kindle-fire-tablet.html


A seven inch screen. Don't these people get it?

Rich


----------



## fluffybear

Steve said:


> Also interesting. Bezos's presentation is over, but if you go to Amazon.com, you'd never know that new products are available for order or pre-order now, as he just stated. They're still showing the old Kindles at the old prices on the home page. :nono2:


If you go into the Kindle section of AMAZON and click on Kindle devices, you will find the new devices. I did not see the presentation but is it possible that new prices for the Kindle will not take place until November 15th?


----------



## Steve

fluffybear said:


> If you go into the Kindle section of AMAZON and click on Kindle devices, you will find the new devices. I did not see the presentation but is it possible that new prices for the Kindle will not take place until November 15th?


I thought he said the $79 Kindle was available today, and Fire ships November 15th. _"We're making many millions of these, but I still recommend you pre-order today."_

Ya. Just found it. RE: the $79 Kindle:



> 10:24AM Get those credit cards out, readers...
> 
> 10:24AM Order today, ships today!


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> A seven inch screen. Don't these people get it?


I can only conclude the _Nook Color_ took sales away from them. This product is clearly targeted at B&N, IMHO.

As a 7" iPod, I don't see too many people downloading music onto this device. I could be wrong, tho.


----------



## klang

I think Enhanced Kindle is what they are after. A reading device that also allows access to other multimedia content from Amazon. I agree with Steve, not really intended to be direct iPad competition.


----------



## fluffybear

Steve said:


> I thought he said the $79 Kindle was available today, and Fire ships November 15th. _"We're making many millions of these, but I still recommend you pre-order today."_
> 
> Ya. Just found it. RE: the $79 Kindle:


That's goodness for someone who has nto yet purchased a kindle. 
I just read an e-mail from our local library system announcing Kindle e-books are now available through their online system.


----------



## Mike Bertelson

Amazon has it on their front page now. The new readers look interesting.

Mike


----------



## phrelin

Well the entire lineup is on the Amazon home page.

The Fire, as it's called, is a really competitive tablet based solely on price. But buried in this description is the innovation (emphasis added):


> Kindle Fire brings everything we've been working on at Amazon for 15 years together into a single, fully-integrated experience for customers - instant access to Amazon's massive selection of digital content, a vibrant color IPS touchscreen with extra-wide viewing angle, a 14.6 ounce design that's easy to hold with one hand, a state-of-the-art dual core processor, free storage in the Amazon Cloud, and *an ultra-fast mobile browser - Amazon Silk - available exclusively on Kindle Fire*.


 Watch the video about Silk. It kind of indicates how the future of browsers in the cloud will tie you to a company.

EDIT: Full disclosure. Though my wife and I both have iPads (ver. 1), we have preordered a Fire - Estimated delivery: Nov. 17, 2011.


----------



## Steve

phrelin said:


> The Fire, as it's called, is a really competitive tablet based solely on price.


At 7", 8gb, wifi-only, no camera and I'm guessing Android 2.2 or 2.3, because they don't mention Honeycomb... it's about $50 less than I'd expect to pay for a _second gen_, dual-core Nook Color.



> But buried in this description is the innovation (emphasis added): Watch the video about Silk. It kind of indicates how the future of browsers in the cloud will tie you to a company.


I watched the video. Since it down-rez's content to your screen's resolution, it discards the extra pixels before it sends them to you. So even though the first Fire is not 3G capable, it seems like Silk's "cloud caching" could help with 3G data caps for future devices. But to be honest, I'm not sure how I feel having all my web browsing brokered by Amazon, at least in theory. Will be interested to see how well it works in practice. Just my .02.


----------



## trdrjeff

I think they are missing the mark for it to be much beyond an ereader by going 7". I know the misses is using her Touchpad 4x more than she ever used her nookcolor even though I had put CM7 on it so it had access to a lot of apps etc. 

I think she even reads on it more. ~10" seems to be the ideal for portability/media consumption


----------



## Steve

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-as-service-not-tablet-in-ipad-challenge.html


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I might upgrade my old 1G kindle for $79. It's a good device but if the image quality is better on the new one, that would be a benefit.


----------



## klang

Stuart Sweet said:


> I might upgrade my old 1G kindle for $79. It's a good device but if the image quality is better on the new one, that would be a benefit.


The quality of the display took a good jump forward between K2 and K3. I've not had any 'eyes on' with the K1.


----------



## Tom Robertson

Price point, price point, price point.

Yes, to me 7" is too small--yet $500 is way too expensive.

The touchpad showed that price is still king. 

Basically we shall soon see a continuum that goes from 3" smart phones all the way through to 24" (and larger) computer monitors. 

We're close now, with a couple of gaps that won't be there much longer. 

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Steve

For folks looking for a purer Android experience who are OK with a 7" screen, the 16GB Lenovo A1 at $199 may be a good alternative to the Kindle Fire. It's a single core CPU, but in place of the second core, you get an _additional_ 8GB of memory, along with front and rear-facing cameras, so great for Skyping with friends, children or grandchildren.

http://androidcommunity.com/lenovo-a1-7-android-tablet-revealed-20110901/

EDITED TO ADD: It apparently has a GPS as well, tho I'm not sure how useful that will be in a wifi-only device. :scratchin


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I can only conclude the _Nook Color_ took sales away from them. This product is clearly targeted at B&N, IMHO.
> 
> As a 7" iPod, I don't see too many people downloading music onto this device. I could be wrong, tho.


Did you see the tablet that Bezos is holding up in the Daily News today? That sure doesn't look like a seven inch screen.

Rich


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> Did you see the tablet that Bezos is holding up in the Daily News today? That sure doesn't look like a seven inch screen.


You mean the pic on this page? If so, that looks like a Kindle 2.


----------



## phrelin

I admit I'm pre-ordering because I'm curious about three things:

We have a lot of music purchased from Amazon so it may give us more convenient portable access to most of our music.
Will reading books on it be better than the iPad since that's what we mostly do with our iPads using the Kindle App?
Is the 7" diagonal screen size meaningfully smaller than the iPad which, when viewing 16:9 video and photos, is really an 8.5±" diagonal screen (not that I like watching video on something smaller than my 42" Pany Plasma).
Regarding size, Amazon touts the Fire as follows:


> Designed to travel with you wherever you go. Small enough to fit in your purse and light enough to hold in just one hand, Kindle Fire is perfect for browsing, playing, reading and shopping on-the-go.


Well, maybe, as it is significantly lighter than our iPads. But the screen size ratio of the Fire is unclear to me and screen shapes are frequently debated. Most magazines even internationally are in roughly 4:3 format. Newspapers are more readable in 4:3 than widescreen. And regarding books, most hardcovers are around 4.5:3, as are most trade paperbacks.

Like most non-iOS devices, Amazon notes in its specs:


> System Requirements: None, because it's wireless and doesn't require a computer.


I still get irked at dealing with iTunes.

Regarding the Silk browser, we have been Amazon Prime customers for years. So it doesn't bother me to... hmm, I don't know what term to use ... _chain_(?) myself through this one device to this company for more effective browsing. But I have to admit I'm concerned that we may see the day when effective browsing on the iPad will be "chained" to Apple's cloud, Google will do the same thing, and Microsoft won't be far behind. It's bad enough that I have to pay an Internet Service Provider (ISP), soon we'll have pay a Cloud Service Provider (CSP)??? (Yeah, it's free ... for now.)


----------



## HDJulie

What about the cloud thing? If there's no wireless available such as when I'm riding in the car or waiting in the Dr's office & I want to read my book, will it be available?

The price difference between the Kindle Touch without ads & the Fire is small enough that it's almost worth it to get the Fire just because.


----------



## phrelin

HDJulie said:


> What about the cloud thing? If there's no wireless available such as when I'm riding in the car or waiting in the Dr's office & I want to read my book, will it be available?


The book would be available unless you wanted one that you chose to store it in the cloud.


----------



## HDJulie

Ok, you get to choose what you store.


----------



## Steve

HDJulie said:


> The price difference between the Kindle Touch without ads & the Fire is small enough that it's almost worth it to get the Fire just because.


Does anyone know for sure yet that the Fire is not ad-supported as well? I'm not saying it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.


----------



## klang

I'm curious if Amazon is going to allow an app like HBO Go which would stream non-Amazon content?


----------



## bobnielsen

klang said:


> I'm curious if Amazon is going to allow an app like HBO Go which would stream non-Amazon content?


I doubt it (it's not in the Amazon Appstore), but it won't take long until the Fire is rooted and HBO Go can be installed from the Android Market (I'm running Netflix on my Nook Color).


----------



## Steve

A New York Times article brings up a potential privacy issue:



> More than most companies, Amazon thinks in terms of years and decades rather than quarters.
> 
> [...]
> 
> With the Fire, every dollar Amazon loses on the device could be more than made up for by the data gained. The Silk browser, by virtue of being situated in the cloud, will record every Web page that users visit. That has implications for privacy and commerce.
> 
> "Amazon now has what every storefront lusts for: the knowledge of what other stores your customers are shopping in and what prices they are being offered there," Chris Espinosa, an Apple engineer, wrote on his personal blog.
> 
> [*more*]


----------



## phrelin

Steve said:


> A New York Times article brings up a potential privacy issue:


It's a good article.

Again, we're long time Amazon Prime customers. As it is Amazon's algorithms cannot seem to come up with meaningful recommendations based on our buying history. So I'm not worried so much about them recording who else we might buy from. And except for Amazon and the Apple store, I wouldn't buy using a tablet.

The historical problem with providing a free browser is that it doesn't generate revenue. In considering the 10-year view, I'm mostly worried that a new browser paradigm is being established through the use of a proprietary cloud as an integral part of the browser operation. It could allow for a "Cloud Service Provider" charge - notice I said "could" and I didn't say when.

I'm sure if he's paying attention, Steve Jobs is saying to himself "why didn't we think of that!" And Google and Microsoft will be watching.

Right now, of course, by "emphasizing" their own store on their own tablet, Amazon will be simply "monetizing" the Fire tablet, something Apple has already done by forcing iPad owners to use iTunes to "sync" and "update the operating system", using the Apple App Store to buy Apps, and no longer allowing sales directly through Apps like the Kindle App.

In the long term, though, I expect to see everyone "monetizing the clouds.":sure:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> You mean the pic on this page? If so, that looks like a Kindle 2.


Sorry, I didn't see the squib on the bottom of the picture....:nono2:

Rich


----------



## klang

Blackberry Playbook fire sale?

It will be interesting to see what the market looks like six months from now.


----------



## Sixto

Wow, if true: RIM reportedly bails on PlayBook, considers exiting tablet market

http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/29/rim-reportedly-bails-on-playbook-considers-exiting-tablet-market/​Glad I've transitioned from Blackberry to iPhone/iPad after forever on the Blackberry (which I loved at the time).

Especially interesting since it seemed like much of the development team temporarily moved to the Playbook to get the Playbook out the door, which caused the 2011 new device delays.

Edit: RIM has claimed that the rumor is "fiction".


----------



## phrelin

I couldn't find this September 26 article yesterday. Fortunately, Forbes reprinted it this morning. It explains the overall economic underpinning of the tablet: Amazon's "Prime" challenger to the iPad: Why Amazon's Kindle tablet can succeed where others have failed.

The key factor to understand is that there is no long-term profit potential in _*just*_ manufacturing and selling technologically great tablets. Steve Jobs understood this even though for years Apple's hardware was simply more expensive partly from the company getting a greater profit margin than, say, HP or any other PC manufacturer.

The one thing this article got wrong is in this paragraph:


> After all, media is a big differentiator on this type of device. And in terms of sheer economics, there are a lot of people these days for whom a bundled video service with a pay-as-you-go library of premium music, books, video and app offerings feels right at $250.


Now we know that the price is $199, 20% lower.

Critics instantly noted that the Fire offers no camera or even no microphone. What was even more surprising was the no-3G-access element. But many tech writers are observing the same as in this Computerworld post:


> Amazon's Kindle Fire is bad, bad news, but not for Apple. Fire won't burn iPad sales but will incinerate the low-end non-iPad tablet market, forcing many players to leave the game.
> 
> ...Tablets aren't just about interfaces. In a sense they are mirrors, like any mirror they reflect who you are. ...Amazon's offering isn't as personal. It isn't intended to be a mirror. It's for watching TV, movies and listening to music. It's for reading books. ...Amazon's offering is slightly better than iTunes. That's because, conceivably, you'll be able to access your Amazon digital content from Amazon's cloud using any device capable of running Amazon's Kindle software. Even your iPad...


 For us tech types, this article offers one fact about the Fire that may be upsetting:


> It's strange -- I can't be unique in considering it most telling that the only Android-powered tablet that stands a cat's whisker of a chance to succeed in the Holiday 2011 market is an Android-powered tablet that, uh, doesn't run Android.


It's a non-proprietary operating system that is sort of proprietary.


----------



## Steve

phrelin said:


> For us tech types, this article offers one fact about the Fire that may be upsetting: It's a non-proprietary operating system that is sort of proprietary.


Since it's a dual-core device with a good screen and "only" $199, even without a camera, I'll bet a lot of hackers will buy them so they can root them.

That said, the relatively small % of rooted Nook Colors, last year's "bargain", might be showing that only so many folks want a 7" tablet, bargain or not. As an e-reader, it's another story.


----------



## phrelin

Steve said:


> Since it's a dual-core device with a good screen and "only" $199, even without a camera, I'll bet a lot of hackers will buy them so they can root them.
> 
> That said, the relatively small % of rooted Nook Colors, last year's "bargain", might be showing that only so many folks want a 7" tablet, bargain or not. As an e-reader, it's another story.


You're right about that. As I've posted elsewhere about the iPad, it looks cool but you really ought to know what you're going to do with it before you buy one. About 85% of the use on my wife's and on mine is to read Kindle books. About 10% is browsing. And about 5% is using various Apps.

Hence, my curiosity about the Fire is mostly can we live with its 7" screen as we're old and don't see as well as we used to. If so, my wife will be much happier as she can manage her music - most in the last decade purchased from Amazon - without depending so much on iTunes.


----------



## klang

Could Amazon have figured out a way to prevent the device from being rooted? Is it more difficult without an SD reader? The Fire only has a micro USB port for charging. What if you can't see the OS from the USB?


----------



## phrelin

See The Kindle Fire will be Root-Friendly:


> Jon Jenkins, Amazon's head of Amazon's Silk Browser project speaking with PC World today has admitted that Amazon knows the Fire will be rooted. They expect it, and he's said that they will do nothing to stop it.
> 
> "It's going to get rooted, and what you do after you root it is up to you."
> 
> Jenkins was unaware whether the bootloader would be locked, but he did admit that Amazon is not going to do anything to discourage users from rooting the device. The Fire already runs on a modified version of Gingerbread, so personally I can't wait to see what the Android community comes up with. I'd love to see a Fire running stock Gingerbread with a Silk Browser. How about you?


And this article which appropriately compares the Fire to a Nook Color notes:


> As I said in my hands-on post, the Kindle Fire obviously took its cues from the Nook Color in many areas, including the user interface. Both devices run on Android (Froyo for Nook, Gingerbread for Kindle) and both cover any familiar Android trappings with their own UI.
> 
> The major advantage is ease of use - for mainstream, non techie users these devices may be easier to use and understand than your average Android tablet. It also allows them to lock down the devices somewhat. You have to know how to root them in order to sideload applications instead of buying them from the Amazon or Barnes & Noble app shops, and most people aren't going to do that.
> 
> Right now neither has a clear advantage here - the UI you prefer comes down to aesthetic preference more than features.


----------



## Steve

phrelin said:


> And this article which appropriately compares the Fire to a Nook Color notes:
> 
> 
> 
> Right now neither has a clear advantage here - the UI you prefer comes down to aesthetic preference more than features.
Click to expand...

Ya. Based on what I've read so far, and having used my daughter's Nook Color, doesn't sound like the Kindle Fire offers much more functionality, except the dual-core CPU might be better for games. That said, rumors are there's a second-gen Nook Color in the works. The only question will be whether or not B&N can subsidize it to the extent Amazon can.


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> The only question will be whether or not B&N can subsidize it to the extent Amazon can.


From today's WSJ:



> Some speculate that Amazon won't be making much, if any, money from the Fire. But UBM TechInsights, which calculates the cost to build devices, said a preliminary estimate of the components in the Fire likely totaled about $150, netting Amazon a profit of about $50 a tablet.
> 
> Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204138204576598670632549928.html#ixzz1ZMdYIkcw


Won't know for sure until somebody tears one down.

Hmm, the 'Read more:...' part of the quote above was added to my copy by WSJ.


----------



## Steve

Now that there are new Kindle Fire magazine subscription deals in place between Amazon and some publishers, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple spends some time on the upcoming iOS 5 "Newsstand" feature, if and when they talk about iOS 5 at the 10/4 iPhone "event".


----------



## klang

Rumor: Amazon to pick up webOS?

Might have made sense 6-12 months ago. I don't know about now.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> Rumor: Amazon to pick up webOS?
> 
> Might have made sense 6-12 months ago. I don't know about now.


Since they've so heavily customized Android for the Fire, I guess it's possible they could swap the underlying OS beneath the same UI. They don't have to pay Google anything to use Android, tho, so the only reason I can think they might want to switch is because it may be cheaper than paying Microsoft's "Android tax".


----------



## Steve

Seth Myers made a humorous (and possibly astute) observation on SNL's "Weekend Update" segment, about 46 seconds in:



> _In an effort to compete with the iPad, Amazon Wednesday unveiled their new tablet computer, called the Kindle Fire, which will retail for $199. *It's expected to sell well among parents who always buy the wrong thing.*_


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Seth Myers made a humorous (and possibly astute) observation on SNL's "Weekend Update" segment, about 46 seconds in:


Predictions are for 15 million of them to be sold.

Rich


----------



## Steve

> Seth Myers made a humorous (and possibly astute) observation on SNL's "Weekend Update" segment, about 46 seconds in:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _In an effort to compete with the iPad, Amazon Wednesday unveiled their new tablet computer, called the Kindle Fire, which will retail for $199. *It's expected to sell well among parents who always buy the wrong thing.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rich584 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Predictions are for *15 million* of them to be sold.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Buzz and timing is everything, I guess. Apart from being tied to your Amazon account, the Kindle Fire provides basically the same books, movies, music and browsing experience the Nook Color offered a year ago in the exact same 7" form factor. _So unless the Nook Color was a product ahead of its time_, if it didn't appeal to kids, Myers's quip may prove to be prophetic.


----------



## Steve

> Online retailer Amazon moved 95,000 units of its hotly-anticipated 7-inch tablet, the Kindle Fire, the first day the tablet was available for pre-order, according to estimates from market research firm eDataSource. [*more*]


I take these numbers with a grain of salt, because I'm not sure how valid an estimation method they used.


> The firm made the estimates by analyzing around 800,000 receipts from individuals who have opted in to its service.


----------



## phrelin

klang said:


> From today's WSJ:
> 
> Won't know for sure until somebody tears one down.
> 
> Hmm, the 'Read more:...' part of the quote above was added to my copy by WSJ.


Well someone did "tear one down."

From an iSuppi news release:


----------



## klang

phrelin said:


> Well someone did tear one down.


Not yet, it says 'preliminary virtual estimate'. I have no doubt it will be pretty close, I just think it is too early too assume they are selling them at a loss.


----------



## phrelin

klang said:


> Not yet, it says 'preliminary virtual estimate'. I have no doubt it will be pretty close, I just think it is too early too assume they are selling them at a loss.


Yeah, I thought I put quotes in. Guess I'm getting ... fuzzy minded???:grin:


----------



## Rich

klang said:


> Not yet, it says 'preliminary virtual estimate'. I have no doubt it will be pretty close, I just think it is too early too assume they are selling them at a loss.


I've been reading that they are selling them at $10 over cost. If that's correct and they do sell 15 million of them in the first year, that's a profit of 150 million dollars. Not shabby...

Rich


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> Since they've so heavily customized Android for the Fire, I guess it's possible they could swap the underlying OS[....] it may be cheaper than paying Microsoft's "Android tax".


More speculation that Amazon may want to acquire webOS for the patents.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/will-amazon-buy-palm-for-its-patents/

And since it doesn't look like Amazon intends to offer a pure Android user experience anyway, seems to me that acquiring webOS would also insure they're not beholden to a potential competitor for software development of a product so closely tied to their core business and customers.

After all, who knows what new business Google is going to be involved in tomorrow? E.g., Google's got a bookstore they may decide to start promoting heavily, after they start selling Xooms.


----------



## Steve

A week after introduction, it appears ~ 250k Kindle Fires were pre-ordered at $199.

By comparison, Apple sold 250k iPads on the first day at prices ranging from $499 to $829.

Motorola sold somewhere between 25k and 120k $599 Xooms in the first 60 days, when it was the _only_ Honeycomb tablet available.


----------



## phrelin

Thought this article was interesting:


> Introducing Aakash, an Android tablet build by UK company DataWind, that the Indian government is buying for Rs 2250 ($35). There will be an initial 100,000 run of these tablets which will be given to students.
> 
> ...Think a $35 tablet is impressive? DataWind has plans for a $10 tablet....


----------



## Steve

> Computerworld - Samsung confirmed Friday that another in its line of tablet computers, the Galaxy Tab 7.0 Plus, will sell for $399.99 starting Nov.13 at many U.S. retailers.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The device runs a 1.2 GHz dual-core processor and Android Honeycomb, also known as Android 3.2. It is .39-inches thick and weighs 12.1 ounces.
> 
> [*more*]


Samsung is probably praying that _"parents who always buy the wrong thing"_ will be able to grasp the difference between this device and the 7" Kindle Fire, at half the price!


----------



## Steve

_*If*_ I could live with a 7" screen, no question I'd spend the extra $50 on the new Nook Tablet vs. the Kindle Fire. YMMV.

(a) I don't want my personal browsing requests funneled through and indexed by Amazon and (b), while I agree you don't need _that _much storage on a tablet, being limited to 8GB (6 GB user) is unacceptable, IMHO. Apps alone could consume much of that.

I also think B&N was very smart to allocate twice the memory to the CPU. It should provide much smoother performance, especially for viewing video.

Given the storage constraints, looks to me like Amazon really only wants folks to store books on this tablet, and stream everything else. That makes makes it much less useful without a wifi connection. Just my .02.

These specs are from PCMag.


----------



## seern

Well, we should be seeing the first Fires in the field by the end of next week and should have reactions from users. Once the Nook Tablet is out in 2 weeks then we can hear from both sides.


----------



## Drew2k

Amazon *finally* released version 2.0 of their Amazon App Store (ASA) app, and it's only because of the Kindle Fire that it ever saw this update. It's a big improvement over the first ASA app in that *finally* you can see the permissions required for an app before you download it.

In 2.0 the app descriptions are still missing "what's new", so when the ASA app notifies you that you have updates ready, you have to leave the ASA app and open the Amazon App Store in a web browser to see what's changed.

Small steps...


----------



## Steve

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2396234,00.asp#fbid=h9ASOqFU_tU

A very honest description of the product, IMHO. As far as the rating? It appears to me the reviewer wasn't too bothered by shortcomings that some users might find irritating, so I personally would _not_ want to be an "early adopter" of this device. Just my .02.



> The Kindle Fire has some bugs. That's to be expected; it's the first of its kind. The most irritating is the tablet's occasional sluggishness. Sometimes touch buttons just don't react. I had to stab the back button a few times during my tests, and flipping pages on heavily graphic comics isn't entirely seamless. I had occasional problems bringing up the navigation in magazines, but realized that if you drag your finger when you're tapping, even by a little bit, the nav doesn't come up. That's frustratingly picky.
> 
> If you grab a sleeping Kindle Fire to use the browser, you'll also discover another minor bug. The Fire disconnects from Wi-Fi while it's asleep. You can wake the tablet up and flip to the browser before it has automatically reconnected to the network, throwing an error. The error implies that you don't have a Wi-Fi connection, which isn't true; what the tablet means is that it needs another few seconds to lock in the Wi-Fi.
> 
> *Overall, though? Pretty great for a $200 tablet.*


Huh? :scratchin



> The Kindle's Silk Web browser is a new kind of browser which leverages Amazon's EC2 servers to speed up Web page loads. It requires a bunch of people to be using it so it can predict behavior, though, so during my tests, before the Fire was available, page loads were unenhanced. I got page load times that averaged double those on the Apple iPad 2 (14 seconds as opposed to seven), and that were slightly slower than the Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.0 Plus with Android Honeycomb and an HTC Sensation phone running Android Gingerbread.


Good news is the UI is locked-down, borrowing a page from the Nook Color. This should make it easy to use for the average consumer:



> The Kindle Fire [...] runs a very highly customized version of Android 2.3.4 (Gingerbread). The customization is really good news for non-geeks. Android is a delightfully open-ended OS, but it's too open-ended for a lot of people; it's not immediately clear what you're supposed to do with an Android tablet.
> 
> It's immediately clear what to do with the Kindle Fire, though. Start it up and you see seven words: Newsstand, Books, Music, Video, Docs, Apps, and Web. That's what you do. Most of the rest of the home screen is devoted to a Cover Flow-like carousel of your most recently used content, with four user-assignable favorites at the bottom.


I'm looking forward to a similarly detailed review of the new Nook.


----------



## Steve

Here's how *Wired *summed-up the Kindle Fire, after another extensive review: http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/11/kindle-fire/all/1



> *WIRED* A great platform for casual video playback. A perfectly fine Android 2.3 app device. A price that pleads "buy me," repeatedly, until you crack a big grin, and give in like a good-natured father buying trinkets for the kids at Wal-Mart.
> 
> *TIRED* Small screen size and insufficient processing power. Crap browser performance. Near useless as a magazine reader, and roundly trumped by superb e-ink Kindles as a book reader.


----------



## Drew2k

I somehow don't feel very original writing this, but ...

I think the Kindle Fire is going to be a huge seller, and will be major competition to the iPad simply because of (1) the price, (2) the retail locations where it will be available, and (3) Amazon's media offerings: video, books, music.

However, the Fire is not for me and I won't recommend it to my family, simply because I know how crippled it is: no external memory (SD card), no Android market access, no task switching, limited memory, and the complete burying of the Android OS. That to me is the worst problem, since it means that any Android OS updates will take a very long time to trickle down Fire users.

I really hope it does well, though, because it will only grow the Android market.


----------



## bobnielsen

The open source code for Ice Cream Sandwich is now available http://groups.google.com/group/android-building/browse_thread/thread/4f85d9242667a85f?pli=1. It will show up first on the Galaxy Nexus but hopefully will appear on other devices (including tablets) before long.


----------



## Steve

PCWorld's reviewer likes the new Nook better than the Kindle Fire.



> B&N's Nook Tablet is fast, has a dynamite display, and will give Kindle Fire and other value tablets a run for their money.
> 
> [*more*]


I was disappointed to read this, tho. Of the Nook's 16GB built-in storage, *only 1GB is available to the user*. The rest is for the OS and B&N delivered content. The user can have up to 32gb of SD card storage, however.


----------



## phrelin

So we are an early adopter of the kindle *fire* which came today. Whatever I write about our *fire* will be from the point of view of an iPad (64 GB, wifi only) early adopter (my wife and I each have one). And we have an iPhone 4.

We like our iPads. We've been Amazon Prime customers since the program began, so we have a relationship with the company. Almost all the books on our iPads are kindle books. We bought them for reading. So you may ask why would we want a *fire*?

My wife has a fairly large library of music purchased from Amazon and an even larger library of music that preceded Amazon. In fact, she has about 50,000 mp3 tracks, all acquired legally, many ripped from vinyl, more from CD's. We both *hate* iTunes.

So we want to see if we can manage her music library on the Amazon Cloud through the *fire* and our computers. This will be an interesting, but time consuming and probably expensive experiment. But $200 didn't seem so bad as a starting point.


----------



## HDJulie

I got my Fire yesterday. When I bought my Kindle last year, I knew that I would eventually give it to my husband whenever the new ones came out. We read the same books & have run out of space for actual books so the Kindle was a good idea for us. When the Fire was announced, I first thought, great I have to have one. Then I thought, no I don't need to spend $200 on it so I'll get the Kindle Touch. *Then* I realized that the $99 Touch was for an ad-supported version & it was $139 for one without ads. I know the ads are not supposed to be intrusive but I hate ads so that was not an option. I then figured why pay $139 when for another $60, I get a "tablet". And that's how I ended up with the Fire. Overall I like the Fire, but I'm disappointed in the weight. This thing is heavy. I intended to carry it in my purse & now have to rethink that. I have enough heavy stuff in my purse. Adding another pound could cause shoulder strain . The screen is nice & the size is fine. It won't replace my iPad but I can see having the Fire with me when I am watching TV & want to surf real quick as opposed to using the iPad. My husband & I each have a recliner with a small table between us & the iPad takes up too much room on it. The cats are a danger to knocking it off the table as they go back & forth between us. The Fire, though, is a nice size for the table & I don't have to worry about it. I'm hoping they eventually come out with a lighter version. Is the Nook as heavy?


----------



## Steve

HDJulie said:


> Is the Nook as heavy?


About the same. 14.1 oz. vs. 14.6 for the Fire.

If you're not married to the Amazon book format (.mobi), the Nook Simple Touch is half the weight and looks great even in bright sunlight outdoors. $99 and no ads. Up to 2 months between charges (@ only 30 mins per day use. YMMV).


----------



## Drew2k

AndroidCentral has some links up for how you can add Android Market to the Fire. Some folks have also replaced the Kindle launcher with their own launchers, so there's hope for someone who wants to customize it.


----------



## djlong

I got my Fire yesterday.

Short review: I like it. It feels like a "B+" or an "A-".

My first-12-hour-impressions, in no particular order.

Setup was pretty easy. It showed up with the battery a little over 75%.

I miss the data connection a little. But the WiFi connection at home is VERY good (which was almost the first thing I set up)

It seems to be a little 'touchy' in that I've selected things without actually touching the screen. In addition, touching an icon seems to be occasionally minisnterpreted as try to scrol the screen just-an-iota.

Netflix works well on it. Only side-scrolling when crowing genres is a little less 'snappy' than I'd like. The picture quality of the video is very good - and I like the fact that the Fire is more 16x9 as opposed to the 4x3-ish iPad.

I have an Amazon Prime account. I finally started watching some of THAT video and the interface was a little snappier - and the PQ was great - equal to the Netflix client.

The email client? It's lacking. I use a paid Hotmail account and on my iPhone (which I've had for a month now) I can do just about anything I want. On the Fire, I can send an email message to the trash easily enough, but I can't file it to a folder, which is what I do with a LOT of emails once I read them. Also, navigation is iffy. What looks like the "next" button seems to be confused. Sometimes I get the next message, sometimes it expands or collapses the email header.

I haven't really played any games on it, yet.

The book reader is good, but I've only re-downloaded the books I bought through Amazon. I haven't moved over my Mobipocket books or the PDFs I have.

All in all, so far, I like it. ESPECIALLY the price.


----------



## chevyguy559

Anyone have a BlackBerry PlayBook? Its supposed to be $199 on Black Friday for a 16gb model....being a BlackBerry user (Torch 9800 and will be upgrading to a 9810 soon) I was thinking it might be a good deal....I was trying to get a $99 TouchPad so obviously the "latest greatest" isn't a concern for me :lol:....does anyone else have a PlayBook?


----------



## Drew2k

djlong said:


> All in all, so far, I like it. ESPECIALLY the price.


Glad you're liking it! Were you ok with it being "pre-registered" on shipment from Amazon?

I read that if you are buying from them and don't mark the Kindle Fire as a gift purchase, it will come with your username and Amazon password "pre-installed". This makes start up super simple, but if that tablet somehow "falls off the truck", whoever gets it can simply start shopping since everything is linked to your Amazon count.

If anyone I know is going to buy a Kindle Fire from Amazon I'm going to tell them to be sure to specify it's a gift - that's the only way to stop it from being pre-registered.


----------



## Steve

I wonder if Apple is testing the waters with iPad price cuts? I got this from NewEgg this morning:


----------



## seern

Drew2k, it did come preregistered and my only concern was for someone to be going around to mailboxes the last few days and looking for Amazon shipments and stealing them. I knew it was coming yesterday and if I did not get it I was already planning to be on the phone to Amazon CSR to turn it off.

First impression is that it is a good workman tablet that does not have gps or the ability to connect to a carrier. The connectivity part did not bother me a whole lot since my android phone can function as a hotspot and that was my plan from the start. I have used it to read some of my Kindle books and the black on white screen is not bothering me and the addition of colour is a plus to my original Kindle. It connects to the web very fast through my wifi and the screen is large enough for me to read web pages when the units in in landscape mode. I am not too happy that some of the apps that I have on my android phone from Verizon are not available through Amazon yet including such as CNN and MSNBC apps, also cannot get the golf channel app.

I am going to keep playing with it and see how it holds up over the next several weeks.


----------



## djlong

Drew2k said:


> Glad you're liking it! Were you ok with it being "pre-registered" on shipment from Amazon?
> 
> I read that if you are buying from them and don't mark the Kindle Fire as a gift purchase, it will come with your username and Amazon password "pre-installed". This makes start up super simple, but if that tablet somehow "falls off the truck", whoever gets it can simply start shopping since everything is linked to your Amazon count.
> 
> If anyone I know is going to buy a Kindle Fire from Amazon I'm going to tell them to be sure to specify it's a gift - that's the only way to stop it from being pre-registered.


No, I had no problem with that.

Quite frankly, if someone had stolen it, they would not have gotten very much use out of it. I was notified when it shipped and had a tracking number so I could keep an eye on it every step of the way. I still had to give it my Amazon password, so no thief could have done anything with it. UPS would have been responsible if it had been stolen before I got my hands on it.

In short, someone who knew me and my password would have had to be the thief in order to get any use from my Fire.

....and only my wife has a CLUE as to what my passwords are - she doesn't know them but she has a hint.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

A coworker of mine got the Fire. I have yet to see it in action — it was still charging — but I was impressed by the size. It's not much bigger than a large smartphone.


----------



## seern

djlong, interesting since mine just fired right up without my having to give it any password.


----------



## HDJulie

The Fire itself doesn't require a password. Making any purchases for apps, books, etc. requires a password.

Stuart, did you pick up the Fire? If so, what did you think about the weight?

I like the size very much except that it is a little hard to hold with one hand. I have a case coming Tuesday.


----------



## phrelin

"phrelin" said:


> So we are an early adopter of the kindle fire which came today. Whatever I write about our fire will be from the point of view of an iPad (64 GB, wifi only) early adopter (my wife and I each have one). And we have an iPhone 4.
> 
> We like our iPads. We've been Amazon Prime customers since the program began, so we have a relationship with the company. Almost all the books on our iPads are kindle books. We bought them for reading. So you may ask why would we want a fire?
> 
> My wife has a fairly large library of music purchased from Amazon and an even larger library of music that preceded Amazon. In fact, she has about 50,000 mp3 tracks, all acquired legally, many ripped from vinyl, more from CD's. We both hate iTunes.
> 
> So we want to see if we can manage her music library on the Amazon Cloud through the fire and our computers. This will be an interesting, but time consuming and probably expensive experiment. But $200 didn't seem so bad as a starting point.


Ok. So our Fire is great for Kindle books. I've got cataracts plus have always worn glasses and have no problems with the screen. The Amazon browser works fine using the their server pass-through system - it is faster than browsing on our iPads. Access to music on the cloud is simple.

I get the daily Kindle books deals email and buy the daily $0.99 - $1.99 books special pretty frequently.

On the other hand, I'm apparent still confused on how to get music uploaded to the cloud, but I'm figuring it out slowly.

As a Prime customer I should have tried streaming a free video but haven't yet.

I've noticed that the news apps are all pricey and not free.

More later.


----------



## RasputinAXP

phrelin said:


> I've noticed that the news apps are all pricey and not free.


Root it and install the ones from the Android Market.


----------



## phrelin

"RasputinAXP" said:


> Root it and install the ones from the Android Market.


I probably will at some point . Right now I'm working with what Amazon provides out of curiosity as truthfully I use my iPad when I'm not at my computer, like right now.

A couple of other observations about the Fire are (a) it is somewhat heavier than I expected, and (b) the 7" screen is too small for comfortable browsing for me compared to my iPad 1, though better than my iPhone 4.


----------



## Rich

phrelin said:


> On the other hand, I'm apparent still confused on how to get music uploaded to the cloud, but I'm figuring it out slowly.


Just open the iTunes Store and go to the right side of the window and click on "Purchased" if you only want to put purchased music on the cloud. If you want to put everything on the cloud, just click on "Match", pay your $25 fee and you'll have it all on the cloud. You'll be led thru the steps.

Once you have your music on the cloud and wish to transfer songs to various devices, just select the song/s you want and hit the "Download" button on the bottom right side of the screen.

Rich


----------



## Drew2k

rich584 said:


> Just open the iTunes Store and go to the right side of the window and click on "Purchased" if you only want to put purchased music on the cloud. If you want to put everything on the cloud, just click on "Match", pay your $25 fee and you'll have it all on the cloud. You'll be led thru the steps.
> 
> Once you have your music on the cloud and wish to transfer songs to various devices, just select the song/s you want and hit the "Download" button on the bottom right side of the screen.
> 
> Rich


Holy crap ... you need to pay a fee to store iTunes music in their cloud???? Google Music allows customers to upload 20,000 songs to their cloud for free, and Amazon allows all music purchased from Amazon to reside in their cloud for free.


----------



## Chris Blount

Drew2k said:


> Holy crap ... you need to pay a fee to store iTunes music in their cloud???? Google Music allows customers to upload 20,000 songs to their cloud for free, and Amazon allows all music purchased from Amazon to reside in their cloud for free.


 It's not quite that simple. Amazon does not have iTunes match. Basically you can upload any music you want (even music you don't actually own) and iTunes will match it and make it yours. Plus, you get an upgrade to a higher quality version of the song. That is the what the fee is for. Also, music you purchased through iTunes does not count toward the storage limits.

The Amazon service might be a better value, but there are some perks to the iCloud system.


----------



## Drew2k

Chris Blount said:


> It's not quite that simple. Amazon does not have iTunes match. Basically you can upload any music you want (even music you don't actually own) and iTunes will match it and make it yours. Plus, you get an upgrade to a higher quality version of the song. That is the what the fee is for. Also, music you purchased through iTunes does not count toward the storage limits.
> 
> The Amazon service might be a better value, but there are some perks to the iCloud system.


I just started using Google Music because of the tight integration with my Xoom tablet, and on first use it includes some legalese that tells me all music I upload must be mine, legally purchased, etc. It's interesting that iTunes allows music you don't own to be uploaded to the cloud.


----------



## Steve

Drew2k said:


> I just started using Google Music because of the tight integration with my Xoom tablet, and on first use it includes some legalese that tells me all music I upload must be mine, legally purchased, etc. It's interesting that iTunes allows music you don't own to be uploaded to the cloud.


That's what the $25/year is for. It doesn't go to Apple. It goes to the RIAA.

And if it's a piece of music that exists in the iTunes library, it doesn't get uploaded. It's just added to your account so you can download it to your local library (and then upload to Google, if you want to be able to cloud stream it, e.g.)


----------



## Drew2k

Steve said:


> That's what the $25/year is for. It doesn't go to Apple. It goes to the RIAA.
> 
> And if it's a piece of music that exists in the iTunes library, it doesn't get uploaded. It's just added to your account so you can download it to your library (upload to Google, if you want to be able to cloud play it, e.g.)


Ah, so it's like Zune Pass in that you can play any music (even what you don't own), but with iTunes it's a one-time fee while Zune Pass is a monthly fee. In that regard $25 is a bargain ...


----------



## lparsons21

The $25 fee is yearly, not one-time.


----------



## Steve

Drew2k said:


> Ah, so it's like Zune Pass in that you can play any music (even what you don't own), but with iTunes it's a one-time fee while Zune Pass is a monthly fee. In that regard $25 is a bargain ...


It's actually $25/year, but still not bad.

It's especially good for folks that have ripped a lot of vinyl. You get to replace scratchy copies with 256kbps VBR AAC studio remasters.


----------



## Drew2k

lparsons21 said:


> The $25 fee is yearly, not one-time.


K, thanks. Still much cheaper than the Zune Pass...


----------



## lparsons21

Yeah, the Match deal is very good. It doesn't do much for me as I don't really do songs on my iOS devices. Just video and ebooks on the iPad for the most part.

My other iOS device is gathering dust, it is the AppleTV2 - I went back to the ATV1 with 40Gb hd in it since they did away with rentals of TV shows. For me the current ATV has no advantage to the older one and some disadvantages.


----------



## Rich

Drew2k said:


> Holy crap ... you need to pay a fee to store iTunes music in their cloud???? Google Music allows customers to upload 20,000 songs to their cloud for free, and Amazon allows all music purchased from Amazon to reside in their cloud for free.


Yup, but all "purchased from iTunes music" is free. In my case, I didn't have to pay anything, but folks with a lot of CD material that they keep on iTunes do have to pay the $25 fee for all their content. This combines "purchased" with "downloaded from other sources content" on the Cloud.

I haven't had time to try the Google site yet.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> It's not quite that simple. Amazon does not have iTunes match. Basically you can upload any music you want (even music you don't actually own) and iTunes will match it and make it yours. *Plus, you get an upgrade to a higher quality version of the song.* That is the what the fee is for. Also, music you purchased through iTunes does not count toward the storage limits.
> 
> The Amazon service might be a better value, but there are some perks to the iCloud system.


From what I've read, the quality of all content other than original iTunes content is enhanced quite well. I've never used another service to purchase music, but the enhancement alone seems to be worth $25 a year. And suppose you had downloaded 500 CDs to iTunes on one computer and wanted all that content on the five devices you are allowed. I'd rather pay the money than download all that content from CDs to individual devices.

Rich


----------



## Rich

I just tried the Google Music and I couldn't upload all my iTunes songs. Think I'll stick with what I know works.

Rich


----------



## dualsub2006

"rich584" said:


> I just tried the Google Music and I couldn't upload all my iTunes songs. Think I'll stick with what I know works.


Long ago when Apple offered the upgrade to 256k, DRM free tracks I jumped on it. Seems like it cost me almost $100 to do all of my tracks.

I got all but 6 of my 15,000 tracks uploaded to Google Music and can stream on my Android phone, iPad or any computer that I'm on. iCloud wouldn't let me stream anything in the way that Google Music does.

For me, Google Music is the way to go. It's not going to work for everyone, but I've switched allegiance from iTunes to Google Music.


----------



## Steve

rich584 said:


> I just tried the Google Music and I couldn't upload all my iTunes songs. Think I'll stick with what I know works.


You probably can't upload any DRM-protected iTunes songs you have on your PC. Can you iTunes match those to DRM-free copies? If so, you should then be able to upload those to the Google cloud. Up to 20,000 songs free. Assuming Google does their job (and doesn't go out of business) and you have an internet connection, you'll never have to worry about backing those songs up again.

Like *dualsub2006 *says, the advantage of uploading your iTunes library to Google music is, unlike with iTunes, you don't have to have it on your PC, phone or iPad to play it. You can stream it from the Google cloud. And the Google cloud player web app works beautifully on the iPod and iPad.


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> Like *dualsub2006 *says, the advantage of uploading your iTunes library to Google music is, unlike with iTunes, you don't have to have it on your PC, phone or iPad to play it. You can stream it from the Google cloud. And the Google cloud player web app works beautifully on the iPod and iPad.


This is also a misconception. You can have your songs in iCloud and not on your PC, iPod or iPad. it's just when you want to play them, they automatically download to your device while you are playing them. You can delete them from the device again but they still remain in the cloud.


----------



## phrelin

Regarding the Amazon Cloud, right now we have the (now discontinued offer) "Buy an MP3 Album and Upgrade to 20 GB of Cloud Drive Storage for Free".

As usual, I find myself confused. It seems like I should buy the current offer which is $20 for 20GB "all paid Cloud Drive storage plans include unlimited space for music (.mp3 and .m4a files) at no additional charge" as we have around 50GB of music.

But, being a cheap guy, I can't tell if we would lose the 20 GB freebie we have now have. And the Amazon site isn't real clear in that it says the current offer is "a limited time...unlimited space for music" which either means the offer is available for a limited time or the the unlimited space is included for a limited time.

Just for the heck of it, I sent an inquiry about the matter and from Rajib S I got this response:


> After looking into your issue , I suggest it would be easier for us to resolve this issue over phone as you can speak to our live customer support executives who can discuss the problem in detail and resolve the issue to your satisfaction.


:sure:

Well, maybe I'll call tomorrow.


----------



## Steve

phrelin said:


> Regarding the Amazon Cloud, right now we have the (now discontinued offer) "Buy an MP3 Album and Upgrade to 20 GB of Cloud Drive Storage for Free".
> 
> As usual, I find myself confused. It seems like I should buy the current offer which is $20 for 20GB "all paid Cloud Drive storage plans include unlimited space for music (.mp3 and .m4a files) at no additional charge" as we have around 50GB of music.


FWIW, assuming you've got 50GB and your average encode is 10MB, that's only 5000+ songs. Google lets you upload 20,000 songs for free.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> This is also a misconception. You can have your songs in iCloud and not on your PC, iPod or iPad. it's just when you want to play them, they automatically download to your device while you are playing them. You can delete them from the device again but they still remain in the cloud.


It might matter if your playback device has limited storage available. Since you're downloading on demand with iTunes, on a full device, you might have to delete something first to make room for new music. With Google, you're just streaming, so device storage is not an issue.

OTOH, with Google, no signal, no music, unless you proactively download. With iTunes, doesn't matter, because if you listened to something at least once, it's still on the device (until you delete it). Two different approaches.


----------



## Drew2k

Google also uses 320K for encoding for songs purchased from the Google Music store, so if you got all 20,000 songs from them, you'd be using a nice chunk of space in their cloud!

I think they also do some re-encoding when you upload, because my paltry 5800 songs took over 24 hours to upload to the Google cloud. (I have 5 Mbps upload speed.)

I love the Google implementation because, as Steve points out, I can go anywhere there is an internet connection and open music.google.com in a web browser, login, and start playing my music. There's no cleanup afterwards, just log out. Super convenient...


----------



## dualsub2006

"Steve" said:


> OTOH, with Google, no signal, no music, unless you proactively download. With iTunes, doesn't matter, because if you listened to something at least once, it's still on the device (until you delete it). Two different approaches.


The Android music app let's you mark playlists to download for offline use. I've got several playlists synced to my phone that total around 2,000 tracks.

I've never lost the ability to listen even when I've lost signal.


----------



## Drew2k

dualsub2006 said:


> The Android music app let's you mark playlists to download for offline use. I've got several playlists synced to my phone that total around 2,000 tracks.
> 
> I've never lost the ability to listen even when I've lost signal.


Yup... The Android app also offers option to buffer music, to improve quality in areas with poor quality connection. The option to mark for download in the Android app is super convenient, though...


----------



## Chris Blount

Drew2k said:


> I love the Google implementation because, as Steve points out, I can go anywhere there is an internet connection and open music.google.com in a web browser, login, and start playing my music. There's no cleanup afterwards, just log out. Super convenient...


That's great if you actually use it. Personally I always have my phone with me so I always have my music. Having the ability to login anywhere is something I would almost never use. Also, IMHO, requring internet access to play music is a limitation. For me, there MUST be some form of local storage especially with data caps on some providers.


----------



## Drew2k

Chris Blount said:


> That's great if you actually use it. Personally I always have my phone with me so I always have my music. Having the ability to login anywhere is something I would almost never use. Also, IMHO, requring internet access to play music is a limitation. For me, there MUST be some form of local storage especially with data caps on some providers.


My office is on the fringe of a free WiFi area provided by my ISP so I can stream all day, but on Android devices any music in your Google Cloud can be marked for offline access and will be automatically downloaded. Best of both worlds!


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> You probably can't upload any DRM-protected iTunes songs you have on your PC. Can you iTunes match those to DRM-free copies? If so, you should then be able to upload those to the Google cloud. Up to 20,000 songs free. Assuming Google does their job (and doesn't go out of business) and you have an internet connection, you'll never have to worry about backing those songs up again.
> 
> Like *dualsub2006 *says, the advantage of uploading your iTunes library to Google music is, unlike with iTunes, you don't have to have it on your PC, phone or iPad to play it. You can stream it from the Google cloud. And the Google cloud player web app works beautifully on the iPod and iPad.


Thing is, I have very little interest in music. The only time I listen to it is in my car when I can't listen to sports radio stations because I have recorded games I haven't seen and don't want to spoil the games by knowing the score.

For me, iTunes is perfect.

Rich


----------



## Steve

I wonder how the tablet guys at Google feel about stories like this one, from today's LATimes.com?



> Amazon.com said Monday that sales of it Kindle device lineup on Black Friday quadrupled the number sold on the day-after-Thanksgiving last year [...]
> 
> Likewise, Barnes & Noble has made it a practice of never sharing its specific sale numbers for its eReader or tablet sales thus far. However, the company does say its Nook Color tablet is currently the top-selling Android tablet on the market [...]
> 
> Apple, whose iPad is the top seller in the tablet market, does release its sales figures for top-selling items. Last quarter, Apple said it sold 11.1 million iPads, up 166% from a year earlier. [*more*]


Between Kindles, Nooks and iPads, it seems there's very little retail buzz for "Android" tablets heading into the Christmas shopping season.

Ya, Nook and Fire tablets are _technically _Android (2.3), but because they're so heavily customized and have their own app stores, there's no Android experience being promoted, AFAIK. Nor does Google derive any branding or advertising revenue from freely licensing their intellectual property for these devices.

Makes me wonder which company is hurt more by Fire and Nook sales, Google or Apple? :scratchin Curious what others think. TIA.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I wonder how the tablet guys at Google feel about stories like this one, from today's LATimes.com?
> 
> Between Kindles, Nooks and iPads, it seems there's very little retail buzz for "Android" tablets heading into the Christmas shopping season.
> 
> Ya, Nook and Fire tablets are _technically _Android (2.3), but because they're so heavily customized and have their own app stores, there's no Android experience being promoted, AFAIK. Nor does Google derive any branding or advertising revenue from freely licensing their intellectual property for these devices.
> 
> Makes me wonder which company is hurt more by Fire and Nook sales, Google or Apple? :scratchin Curious what others think. TIA.


Now that you mention it, I haven't seen anything on TV except Fire, Nook and the ever present iPad.

Rich


----------



## Chris Blount

Drew2k said:


> My office is on the fringe of a free WiFi area provided by my ISP so I can stream all day, but on Android devices any music in your Google Cloud can be marked for offline access and will be automatically downloaded. Best of both worlds!


 That's great and that situation works for you. However many are not within wifi range while outside the home so data caps become a huge factor when listening to streaming music.


----------



## Sixto

iPhone. iPad. WiFi Sync with iTunes. Perfect. Every song that I'll ever need just a few clicks away. And it works great with Microsoft Sync in the car.


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> Now that you mention it, I haven't seen anything on TV except Fire, Nook and the ever present iPad.


Unscientific, but still an interesting tidbit re: iPad sales. A Piper Jaffray analyst who tallied iPads walking out the door at a particular Apple store _last _Black Friday counted again this year. The store averaged 15.8 iPads per hour, vs 8.8 per hour in 2010.

Based on this, that analyst remains comfortable with his estimate that 13.5 million iPads will be sold in the quarter ending 12/31.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/11...aign=Feed:+fortuneapple20+(FORTUNE:+Apple+2.0)


----------



## klang

Steve said:


> Based on this, that analyst remains comfortable with his estimate that 13.5 million iPads will be sold in the quarter ending 12/31.


That should make almost 40 million for the year. And there are people like my wife holding onto her iPad 1 waiting for iPad 3, likely in the spring.

To your earlier point, I doubt most Kindle and Nook buyers know or care what OS is under the covers, probably same can be said about iPhone and iPad owners. What if anything does Google get out of having a version of Android running on a Kindle Fire?


----------



## Drew2k

Steve said:


> Makes me wonder which company is hurt more by Fire and Nook sales, Google or Apple? :scratchin Curious what others think. TIA.


Android was designed to be open source and can be modified with skins as Amazon and Nook are doing. The real problem is that Amazon doesn't ship the Kindle Fire with Google Market installed - everything is through Amazon's App Store. That's where the pain will come, with Amazon taking actual market share from Google's market!


----------



## Drew2k

Chris Blount said:


> That's great and that situation works for you. However many are not within wifi range while outside the home so data caps become a huge factor when listening to streaming music.


 Chris doesn't like streaming! However, that's not the only way to listen to Google Music if you have an Android device, because as I previously mentioned the music can be marked for offline use and the music will be physically stored on their device.

If you don't have an Android device, the only thing you'll get from the Google music cloud is steaming ability. If you have an Android device, you can have streaming and local storage.

As for data caps, download to your device when you're at home before you know you're going to travel. I uploaded my music to the cloud once, and since then at home at random times I've marked dozens of albums for offline use on my tablet (32GB storage) and it's been super easy.


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> What if anything does Google get out of having a version of Android running on a Kindle Fire?





Drew2k said:


> The real problem is that Amazon doesn't ship the Kindle Fire with Google Market installed - everything is through Amazon's App Store. That's where the pain will come, with Amazon taking actual market share from Google's market!


And to add insult to injury, if B&N and Amazon get stuck paying the "Microsoft Tax" on Android, Microsoft might benefit more from financially from Nook and Fire tablet sales than Google!

B&N is fighting a good fight, but it's a David vs. Goliath battle. If they weren't such fierce competitors, it would probably make good sense for Amazon and B&N to team up against Microsoft's "patent trolling", as B&N characterizes it. Microsoft is reportedly asking for $15 per device.


----------



## Steve

Looks like the _"deal du jour"_ is the venerable Xoom. Verizon's selling the 32GB LTE version for $199 (with a 2-year commitment). Hurry, tho.

http://betanews.com/2011/11/28/would-you-pay-200-for-motorola-xoom-lte/

Best Buy sold out their $199 and $299 Playbooks, as of today.

Not surprisingly, a lot of shipped, but unsold, inventory is apparently being cleared out.


----------



## Chris Blount

Drew2k said:


> Chris doesn't like streaming!


 I didn't say that. All I'm saying is that the way you use your device is not any better or worse than how others use their Google, Amazon or iTunes cloud services. They are all pretty good as long as they fit with your situation.


----------



## Drew2k

Chris Blount said:


> I didn't say that. All I'm saying is that the way you use your device is not any better or worse than how others use their Google, Amazon or iTunes cloud services. They are all pretty good as long as they fit with your situation.


Good, then we're all on the same page ...


----------



## phrelin

Steve said:


> FWIW, assuming you've got 50GB and your average encode is 10MB, that's only 5000+ songs. Google lets you upload 20,000 songs for free.


Actually I [strike]misspoke[/strike] mistyped myself. And I actually checked things out a little more precisely such as subtracting out the album art files on the drive. It turns out my wife has only 41,246 mp3 tracks (all legally acquired) using about 168GB, or about 4MB per track. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to store in Amazon's cloud for free or at least no more than $20. Who me, cheap?:sure:


----------



## mystic7

Ha! You think YOU're cheap? I came here to find out exactly what good any of these tablets are straight out of the box without having to purchase content. Are they really of any use to someone like me, who hasn't bought new music since "Band of Gypsy's" was released in 1970? Or has no interest in the latest best sellers? I mean, if I'm not going to shell out for a membership to Amazon Prime, for example, and even .99 cents is too much to pay for the garbage they call movies these days, should I even bother getting a tablet? Any tablet?


----------



## Drew2k

mystic7 said:


> Ha! You think YOU're cheap? I came here to find out exactly what good any of these tablets are straight out of the box without having to purchase content. Are they really of any use to someone like me, who hasn't bought new music since "Band of Gypsy's" was released in 1970? Or has no interest in the latest best sellers? I mean, if I'm not going to shell out for a membership to Amazon Prime, for example, and even .99 cents is too much to pay for the garbage they call movies these days, should I even bother getting a tablet? Any tablet?


"Should you bother"' depends on whether or not you'd miss or want to have a device with offline storage that may hold:

- books
- movies
- photos
- music
- personal files (ex: Office Documents, PDF instruction manuals, etc.)

Or whether you'd want a device to permit portable web browsing in a desktop-like environment (as opposed to cell phone)...

Or whether you'd want a device to play games ...

Or a device with reference apps (human anatomy, calculator, Shopping Organizers, atlas, etc.) ...

Or you want a device to do social networking (Facebook, Twitter, Google+) or even video chatting (Skype, etc.) ...

A tablet can do all of the above, but consider a few other things:

- What kind of connectivity do you want? WiFi only means no subscription fees, but you are limited to connecting only where WiFi is available. 3G/4G tablets include WiFi but when WiFi is not available you can connect using 3G/4G if you have a signal, but this is usually subject to monthly fees and data caps.

- What kind of storage do you want? Tablets have internal storage (8 GB, 16 GB, 32 GB) and some also have external storage (via microSD slots). The more storage you have the more offline data you can keep with you (media, personal files, etc.)

- How big a screen do you want? Tablets come from 7" up to 10.5", with more screen real estate usually equating to a better web experience, but of course the larger the tablet the heavier it is

So work out some answers to the above. Visit a CE store like Best Buy that has various sizes and brands of tablets on display, as well as Book Readers like Kindle and Sony, and see what you consider comfortable and affordable...

Should you bother getting a tablet? Totally up to you...


----------



## mystic7

Thanks, Drew. I have a Kindle. It's one of those "Special Offers" ones (told ya I'm cheap. OK, actually I'm poor), but I never registered it so I don't have to deal with the ads. Most of my books are free (not torrented, actually free, like the KJV Bible, for example).

I was looking for something that I could add those books to, plus movies that I would convert from my own library of DVD's (can those "Digital Copies" that come with Blu Ray dvd's be loaded as well?), and hopefully find some free news feeds and magazines. And of course I'd like to load "Band of Gypsy's" and other 60's favorites without having to purchase it yet again 

Also would like to be able to shoot video and upload to youtube. I don't travel much so 4g is not a necessity, and there's plenty of free Wi-Fi places around town. 

Those reference apps sound interesting as well.

I was leaning towards a Samsung 10.1 whatever it's called since it has Flash and is not ball and chained to the Apple store and iTunes. Oh, and storage is not a big deal. When I run out of room I can just delete. I'm not a stickler for having every single piece of software/movie/music available to me instantly. If I want to watch something I deleted I'll just reload.

So, with that information can you further narrow your response? Can I do all those things with a Samsung/iPad? Oh yeah, and connect to the internet via browser as well, with no additional fees. Possible?

P.S. I also don't care a lick for games. Nope, not one lick. And I don't need to carry around personal documents either. What is this, Poland!?!


----------



## mystic7

Oops, too late. Just got back from Walmart with a new Galaxy Tab 10.1. I've got 15 days to see if it does what I need. If not I can return it for full refund. Can't get better than that. Sorry, Drew


----------



## Drew2k

mystic7 said:


> Oops, too late. Just got back from Walmart with a new Galaxy Tab 10.1. I've got 15 days to see if it does what I need. If not I can return it for full refund. Can't get better than that. Sorry, Drew


Congrats! I'm sure you'll like it...

There are a lot of great fee apps optimized for the tablet - if you want to find them, start in the Google Market, go to Apps, and depending on which version of Market is installed, look for "Staff Picks for Tablets" or "Recommended Tablet Apps".

You can also search for an app named "Tablet Market" by "tabletapps", where the developer aggregated almost ALL of the tablet apps by category.

You mentioned you liked some of the reference apps, so also look for "Google Body". It's really good - and it's free! 

Enjoy your 15 days...


----------



## mystic7

Loving it so far and I'm still charging it. It was ready to go out of the box. Having a problem configuring my outgoing email server but I haven't even read the manual yet. Other than that, smooth sailing, and if I can load my movies, books, and music onto it, then it's a keeper. Thanks again for your help, Drew!


----------



## ncxcstud

My wife and I are in the process of getting a tablet too. I think we're going to hold out for the Asus Transformer Prime that should be coming out sometime next week. I've got $250 in Best Buy rewardzone cash so I'm ready to jump on something with it .


----------



## mystic7

Hey, can this thing do GPS without signing up for a service? Also, just came from Best Buy where they have it for $449.00. Paid $488 at Walmart so I'm going to get them to price match tomorrow. Anyway, let me know about the GPS.


----------



## mystic7

ncxcstud said:


> My wife and I are in the process of getting a tablet too. I think we're going to hold out for the Asus Transformer Prime that should be coming out sometime next week. I've got $250 in Best Buy rewardzone cash so I'm ready to jump on something with it .


I was just at Best Buy. They already have it for sale. $398.00 I believe.


----------



## ncxcstud

Is that the Transformer Prime or the Transformer (original)? Online it still says its up for preorder for the TPrime, while the original Asus Transformer is available for 399.99


----------



## mystic7

ncxcstud said:


> Is that the Transformer Prime or the Transformer (original)? Online it still says its up for preorder for the TPrime, while the original Asus Transformer is available for 399.99


Sorry, not knowing much about tablets and different models I couldn't tell ya. Going by the online price it's probably the original. Sorry.


----------



## FHSPSU67

That has to be the original 16GB ASUS transformer. I'm patiently waiting for the 32GB and 64GB Transformer Prime, to be released sometime in Dec. My wife wants my old transformer


----------



## FHSPSU67

mystic7 said:


> Hey, can this thing do GPS without signing up for a service? Also, just came from Best Buy where they have it for $449.00. Paid $488 at Walmart so I'm going to get them to price match tomorrow. Anyway, let me know about the GPS.


Yes, I found this out on my recent Caribbean cruise. I had to go to the top deck, but it located our ship from there. Don't ask me how this works, but it does.
[edit] Oops, sorry I got my tablets mixed up and was speaking of the ASUS transformer, but I believe that the Galaxy should have the same technology.


----------



## mystic7

FHSPSU67 said:


> Yes, I found this out on my recent Caribbean cruise. I had to go to the top deck, but it located our ship from there. Don't ask me how this works, but it does.
> [edit] Oops, sorry I got my tablets mixed up and was speaking of the ASUS transformer, but I believe that the Galaxy should have the same technology.


Yes, I noticed that it does do GPS. It even has voice navigation, with no monthly fee. I'm loving this thing.


----------



## ncxcstud

FHSPSU67 said:


> That has to be the original 16GB ASUS transformer. I'm patiently waiting for the 32GB and 64GB Transformer Prime, to be released sometime in Dec. My wife wants my old transformer


According to Newegg.com the Transformer Prime is supposed to come out on the 8th or 9th of December . With Honeycomb but an update to be available to get Ice Cream Sandwich on it (Android 4.0).


----------



## mystic7

Hey, to all of you out there who, like me, were thinking about getting a tablet (any tablet) but weren't sure if you really needed one, let me say, and I speak for myself but you may gleam some insight from what I have to say, but I can see myself getting bored with this thing within the next few days, even though I'm enjoying playing with it right now. So I may just bring it back and get an HDTV for the bedroom. I mean, if I'm already looking up instructions on how to restore it to factory defaults...


----------



## phrelin

mystic7 said:


> Hey, to all of you out there who, like me, were thinking about getting a tablet (any tablet) but weren't sure if you really needed one, let me say, and I speak for myself but you may gleam some insight from what I have to say, but I can see myself getting bored with this thing within the next few days, even though I'm enjoying playing with it right now. So I may just bring it back and get an HDTV for the bedroom. I mean, if I'm already looking up instructions on how to restore it to factory defaults...


Right at the moment I'm listening to - a Sirius channel that comes with my Dish package - from my Dish ViP722 via my Slingbox - on my Kindle Fire using Sling Media's Android App - plugged into my Bose Soundlink for quality sound.

My wife and I both have an iPad. As anticipated, we use them extensively as a Kindle ebook reader, one that can do other things such a browsing and occasionally watching TV through our Slingbox. And as it turns out, my significantly less expensive Kindle Fire does most of that pretty well though the smaller screen makes it a less comfortable browser.

In April last year I posted in my blog after playing with the iPad:


> In other words, it is a handy ...well... it's a ideal-sized-screen ebook, and with a notepad, calculator, web access point (when wifi is available), background music player, etc.
> 
> It isn't a techie toy. It's specifically not a personal computer. I think that Steve Jobs has been trying to make it clear that it is not a next-generation or niche computer. It is not a phone, thank God. It is what it is.
> 
> It is an extension of your individuality.


I still stick by that evaluation, though it is more of a techie toy than I anticipated.

I guess one could make life miserable by downloading Skype and turn these things into mobile phones. And a lot of people have effectively turned their personally purchased iPad into a donated extension of their employer. Maybe part of the modern individuality is be chained to your employer 24/7. (I retired a few years after putting up with an employer provided cell phone 24/7 driving me towards another heart attack - I don't like all the implications of technology.:sure

Anyway, now there are reports on the web that Microsoft may be making Office Apps for the iPad. If that happens and they do a good job of duplicating the functions of Excel, Word, and PowerPoint, I think I may have to reconsider my take on it not being very useful for business.

Early last Summer after playing with our first iPad, I said here one needs to figure out what you're going to use a tablet for before buying. They aren't free and they aren't useful for everyone. On the other hand, if you can find a primary use, these things are pretty much ok.


----------



## Rich

mystic7 said:


> Hey, to all of you out there who, like me, were thinking about getting a tablet (any tablet) but weren't sure if you really needed one, let me say, and I speak for myself but you may gleam some insight from what I have to say, but I can see myself getting bored with this thing within the next few days, even though I'm enjoying playing with it right now. So I may just bring it back and get an HDTV for the bedroom. I mean, if I'm already looking up instructions on how to restore it to factory defaults...


I just gave my iPad2 to my son. Had no use for it. It was interesting at first, but I'd rather use my laptop. And to think I started this thread, filled with enthusiasm... :nono2:

Rich


----------



## Steve

Different strokes, I guess. 

Our iPad2 is in use 3-4 hours a day, sometimes more. Morning news (both as as radio and a newspaper), e-mail, DirecTV apps (DAFI and Nomad), extensive web browsing, shopping, lots of time on forums, video playback, face-timing with the grandkids, a photo album, puzzles for my wife, games for the grandkids, HBOGO, PBS, NPR, all the Google apps... the list goes on and on. Just bought a new Pioneer A/V receiver (with Airplay) and there's a very useful iOS control app for it I can tell I'll be using a lot.

Not only can I no longer imagine a day without a tablet, but we're fasting approaching the need for a second one. :eek2:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Different strokes, I guess.
> 
> Our iPad2 is in use 3-4 hours a day, sometimes more. Morning news (both as as radio and a newspaper), e-mail, DirecTV apps (DAFI and Nomad), extensive web browsing, shopping, lots of time on forums, video playback, face-timing with the grandkids, a photo album, puzzles for my wife, games for the grandkids, HBOGO, PBS, NPR, all the Google apps... the list goes on and on. Just bought a new Pioneer A/V receiver (with Airplay) and there's a very useful iOS control app for it I can tell I'll be using a lot.
> 
> Not only can I no longer imagine a day without a tablet, but we're fasting approaching the need for a second one. :eek2:


Yup, different strokes. Still disappointing. I did have great hopes for the tablets. Be interesting to see what my son does with it.

Rich


----------



## FHSPSU67

ncxcstud said:


> According to Newegg.com the Transformer Prime is supposed to come out on the 8th or 9th of December . With Honeycomb but an update to be available to get Ice Cream Sandwich on it (Android 4.0).


ASUS has actually shifted the US release date to 12/19 per ASUS Transformer Forum.


----------



## mystic7

To those of you who love your tablets and think I'm talking down to you, I'm not. I'm simply representing those of us, like fellow Yankee fan (and obvious brill-yont!) Rich, who bought one out of curiosity, not knowing whether it would maintain its interest level after a week. Like Rich, I have also come to the conclusion that it doesn't. Myself, I don't need to be entertained 24 hours a day (again, not knocking you if you do) and I certainly do not need to have music access 24 hours a day. If I do I have an excellent sound system in my home, where I work from, so I'm never really far from my home based toys.

Again, to sum up, if you want to buy a tablet because it's the thing to do right now, but you don't know what you would need it for, I'm just giving you my experience. Fun at first, can see it losing its appeal. Otherwise, go for it.


----------



## CATCRAW

I agree with mystic7 - know what you want a tablet for and what you want to do with it. I just purchased the Samsung Galaxy 7" (for portability). I had a specific problem I was trying to solve - internet access while out in RV. WIFI is not always available and I chose the Galaxy because it not only gives us internet access but it acts as a mobile HotSpot for our computers when traveling. I almost upgraded to a Smartphone for this feature but then found out that you have to pay an additional fee to use Mobile HotSpot, but you do not on the Galaxy Tab. It is included and I can adjust my data plan on the fly when needed and use my WIFI when at home. Solved my issue at the most reasonable cost.


----------



## Rich

CATCRAW said:


> I agree with mystic7 - know what you want a tablet for and what you want to do with it. I just purchased the Samsung Galaxy 7" (for portability). I had a specific problem I was trying to solve - internet access while out in RV. WIFI is not always available and I chose the Galaxy because it not only gives us internet access but it acts as a mobile HotSpot for our computers when traveling. I almost upgraded to a Smartphone for this feature but then found out that you have to pay an additional fee to use Mobile HotSpot, but you do not on the Galaxy Tab. It is included and I can adjust my data plan on the fly when needed and use my WIFI when at home. Solved my issue at the most reasonable cost.


Now that makes a lot of sense. I almost bought a Verizon gizmo about the size of a credit card, but thicker, that would work on 4G and would allow five (I think) Wi-Fi devices to work off it. Only cost $50 bucks but had the usual data plan requirement. I was planning on using it while at the beach this past summer, but that data plan requirement put me off.

I'm still kinda wondering about how much a Smart phone is worth to me. The only APP I really use is the Blacklist APP, so that I can block unwanted callers. My OOMA does this also, but the Smartphone does it easier and, since I have my Droid X set up to receive calls that go to the OOMA, the Smart phone actually works as well as the blacklist of the OOMA. Aside from that, I don't really see the need for a Smart phone.

Rich


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> ASUS has actually shifted the US release date to 12/19 per ASUS Transformer Forum.


I've often wondered if you made the better choice. I've never tried the ASUS, but I think I might have been happier with it.

Rich


----------



## FHSPSU67

Rich said:


> I've often wondered if you made the better choice. I've never tried the ASUS, but I think I might have been happier with it.
> 
> Rich


I've absolutely loved my original ASUS Transformer, and so has my wife so she will get it when I get the Prime. I don't think any tech gadget will maintain its original thrill, but the Transformer has come closer to that ultimate than any other computer I've had. I would have said any tech gadget, but I'm continually thrilled by DIRECTV and my Panasonic TC-P65VT25


----------



## mystic7

btw, when I returned the tablet I picked up a 32" Sony HDTV for the bedroom. Excellent picture! Terrible sound, but again, it's for the bedroom so it doesn't matter. Now that's money well spent. I've never had a tv sit idle


----------



## RasputinAXP

I still love my OG wifi Xoom. What can I say, it's eminently hackable.


----------



## Rich

mystic7 said:


> btw, when I returned the tablet I picked up a 32" Sony HDTV for the bedroom. Excellent picture! Terrible sound, but again, it's for the bedroom so it doesn't matter. Now that's money well spent. I've never had a tv sit idle


As I said in an earlier post, my son wanted an iPad2 for Xmas, so I gave it to him. He has been using it constantly, but I'm curious about what the passage of time will do.

Rich


----------



## Steve

From today's Forbes:



> Pew Research reports that "about half, 51 percent, of (current) tablet users have graduated from college, compared with 28 percent of all U.S. adults; 62 percent are fully employed, compared with 44 percent of the population overall. They are nearly twice as likely as U.S. adults overall to have a household income of at least $75,000 per year (53 percent versus 28 percent)." And, most intriguing of all, "the largest share of tablet users, 46 percent, are in their 30s and 40s, compared with 35 percent of the population overall." These numbers suggest that a lot of potential sales of tablets are out there for the right combination of brand credibility, functionality and price. [*more*]


Not surprisingly, the sweet spot for price (among non-iPad buyers) is $199-$299.


> [...] on Black Friday when Best Buy offered a 16-GB and 32-GB PlayBook for $199.99 and $299.99, respectively, those tablets flew off the shelves.


Interesting to note that like the HP webOS tablets that also sold out, the Playbooks don't run Android either. And the other two very popular and similarly-priced 7" tablets, the Fire and the Nook, run a custom UI that effectively hides Android 2.3 (and the Google app store) from the end user. I wonder what the guys in Google's HQ think about all this? :scratchin


----------



## F1 Fan

Steve said:


> Interesting to note that like the HP webOS tablets that also sold out, the Playbooks don't run Android either. And the other two very popular and similarly-priced 7" tablets, the Fire and the Nook, run a custom UI that effectively hides Android 2.3 (and the Google app store) from the end user. I wonder what the guys in Google's HQ think about all this? :scratchin


If it isnt iOS or Android, I dont give it much of a market share - HP made a good choice. There was a report today that RIM have had to throw in something like 330 million to prop up the Playbook. I havent read the article in full yet as it was out today but I know they are hurting.

Google dont care too much about the Fire (which is an awesome tablet/reader btw). They were more interested in the Xoom as the GED which we now know was to start the buyout of Motorola mobile.

We sell the wifi versions of all tablets and each has pro's and cons. The reason I prefer the Android is that it is more open and there are more choices of devices to suit each users needs. Apple as we know will bring out a new version each year and as long as people are crazy enough to buy the new version each year for full price, they will keep doing it - and good luck to them - if I could figure out how to do the same thing with our products I would!


----------



## Chris Blount

F1 Fan said:


> Apple as we know will bring out a new version each year and as long as people are crazy enough to buy the new version each year for full price, they will keep doing it - and good luck to them - if I could figure out how to do the same thing with our products I would!


Many people who upgrade their Apple products every year tend to sell of their older product which have a high resale value. Thus, once you buy the first iPad at full price, you never pay full price again.


----------



## Steve

F1 Fan said:


> We sell the wifi versions of all tablets and each has pro's and cons. The reason I prefer the Android is that it is more open and there are more choices of devices to suit each users needs. Apple as we know will bring out a new version each year and as long as people are crazy enough to buy the new version each year for full price, they will keep doing it - and good luck to them - if I could figure out how to do the same thing with our products I would!


Sounds like you're a dealer, but don't carry iPad's? Do you carry the new Nook Tablet and the Fire? If so, curious how are they selling vs. the Gingerbread/Honeycomb/ICS tablets? TIA.


----------



## mystic7

Did I mention the Sony 32" was only $298.00? 

Rich, your son may play with the iPad 2 for a lot longer than we would, but eventually all things get old. Remember CB Radio?


----------



## Steve

Thought I'd survey who's using what here. TIA for voting.


----------



## CATCRAW

Plug in a couple of Bose computer speakers ($79) and you will be amazed at the improved sound.


----------



## Drew2k

Steve said:


> Thought I'd survey who's using what here. TIA for voting.


YW


----------



## Stuart Sweet

OK... let's say I wanted to buy a tablet for the express purpose of hacking the holy living heck out of it (that's right I said heck.) Something cheap and almost disposable. I want to get medieval with the thing. 

What would be your suggestion?


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> OK... let's say I wanted to buy a tablet for the express purpose of hacking the holy living heck out of it (that's right I said heck.) Something cheap and almost disposable. I want to get medieval with the thing.
> 
> What would be your suggestion?


What size screen? If you can live with 7", your best bet may be a first gen Nook Color tablet. I've seen them around for $99. It's single core, 800 mhz, 8GB, with 32 GB expansion slot.

The $149, 10" 32GB HP webOS tablets are only available as part of a bundle now, if you buy another HP computer at the same time.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

Any size, any shape. I'm even thinking about the $79 ones you see at the drugstore.


----------



## Steve

Stuart Sweet said:


> Any size, any shape. I'm even thinking about the $79 ones you see at the drugstore.


The issue with those would be the quality of the construction, case, screen and battery, IMHO. A refurb'd Nook Color for $99 is built with iPad/Galaxy-like quality.


----------



## Stuart Sweet

I don't want quality — I have an iPad for that. I want to drill into it with every known hack, visit every known questionable site, install every bad app imaginable. Then cackle like a madman, wipe it and start again.


----------



## Rich

mystic7 said:


> Did I mention the Sony 32" was only $298.00?
> 
> Rich, your son may play with the iPad 2 for a lot longer than we would, but eventually all things get old. Remember CB Radio?


Yup, I expect him to get tired of it soon. Altho, he has a good reason for wanting it. He finally figured out that watching movies on the iPad was better than watching them on his iPod. Considering that he has a 58" TV and a 42" TV in his (ours, actually, but we just enjoy having him around so we converted some unused space into an apartment) apartment I really don't see why he persists in watching movies on tiny screens, but...

Sure, I remember CB radio. Caused me a lot of problems when I lived across the street from "Minnie and Mickey Mouse" who had a monstrous setup. It interfered with TV reception when using my antenna, but cable came along and cured that problem.

Rich


----------



## trdrjeff

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't want quality - I have an iPad for that. I want to drill into it with every known hack, visit every known questionable site, install every bad app imaginable. Then cackle like a madman, wipe it and start again.


Nook color will still be your best bet as far as the ability to run a decent version of Android and have a good base of folks that hacking them. Also _VERY_ easy to return to stock once you are done playing Dr. Frankenstein


----------



## zx10guy

I just ventured into the world of tablets. It's actually a slate. I didn't want to compromise with the typical applications I run such as full up Microsoft Office or the various networking applications I use such as SSL VPN/IPSEC clients. Finally, I don't want to worry about which internet sites I can visit because it's doing something like Flash.

I bought myself a Asus EP121. Intel Core i5 processor, 4GB of memory, and 64 GB SSD hard drive. I also am not limited with no connectivity options as it has 2 USB 2.0 ports and a SD Card slot.

I also have a Fujtisu U/G90N that I used and will probably use when I need ultra-portability. It too runs Windows 7 like the EP121 and has been my mobile workhorse for a couple of years.

As far as Stuart's requirements to be able to run the baddest malware or touch unsavory sites, I have this capability with all my internet touching devices. I use Faronic's Deep Freeze. I can touch the baddest sites or launch the worst malicious code on my mobile devices and not worry about anything. All I do is reboot the devices and they come back up clean.


----------



## Steve

zx10guy said:


> As far as Stuart's requirements to be able to run the baddest malware or touch unsavory sites, I have this capability with all my internet touching devices. I use Faronic's Deep Freeze. I can touch the baddest sites or launch the worst malicious code on my mobile devices and not worry about anything. All I do is reboot the devices and they come back up clean.


Deep Freeze is Windows or Mac only, though, right? No Android or iOS version.


----------



## zx10guy

Steve said:


> Deep Freeze is Windows or Mac only, though, right? No Android or iOS version.


That's correct. It'll also run on Linux.


----------



## F1 Fan

Steve said:


> Sounds like you're a dealer, but don't carry iPad's? Do you carry the new Nook Tablet and the Fire? If so, curious how are they selling vs. the Gingerbread/Honeycomb/ICS tablets? TIA.


Not a dealer so much as an IT company and so we get a lot of different types, but dont have a retail outlet as most of our customers are businesses (though we have some sole proprietors and home users).

The iPad is definately #1 among home users. Android is more dominant for businesses.

Nook and Fire are still perceived as eReaders (but on steriods) though I often recommend the Fire to people who want a cheap tablet.

But in all honesty - and outside of this thread topic - we use and are starting to sell a lot more Chromebooks. They are awesome and since having mine in September I now use my Chromebook 95% of the time when mobile and my Xoom 5% of the time. Same with my laptop. I used to use it 100% when mobile for my work, and probably averaged 4hours a day (including home use) on it. I have not opened it since the first week of having the Chromebook. My wife now exclusively uses the Chromebook. It is cheaper than a tablet, better screen, longer battery life and is not much bigger or heavier.


----------



## Drew2k

Google has reached the 10 billion download milestone, and in celebration is offering 10 paid apps a day for 10¢ each for the next 10 days...

https://market.android.com/details?id=apps_timed_promotion&feature=banner

I guess that's ONE way to counteract Amazon's Free App of the Day and try to maintain customer loyalty!


----------



## Drew2k

I'm seriously looking at the new Asus Transformer Prime to replace my Xoom, but I do like that my Xoom has 3G connectivity. I haven't heard yet that any carrier will have the Transformer Prime, but I'll also be buying only from Best Buy.

When I got my Xoom it cost me only a few bucks because I used all of my Discover, AmEx an Best Buy rewards to get it. I also tacked on the "Buy Back" program, so if I turn in my Xoom in the next 4 months I'll get 40% of the original price back to apply towards something else. Since it cost me only peanuts out of pocket the first time, this drastically reduces the price of the gorgeous but expensive Transformer Prime this time around...


----------



## Steve

Drew2k said:


> Google has reached the 10 billion download milestone, and in celebration is offering 10 paid apps a day for 10¢ each for the next 10 days...


How in*ten*se is that??? :up:


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Drew2k" said:


> I'm seriously looking at the new Asus Transformer Prime to replace my Xoom, but I do like that my Xoom has 3G connectivity. I haven't heard yet that any carrier will have the Transformer Prime, but I'll also be buying only from Best Buy.
> 
> When I got my Xoom it cost me only a few bucks because I used all of my Discover, AmEx an Best Buy rewards to get it. I also tacked on the "Buy Back" program, so if I turn in my Xoom in the next 4 months I'll get 40% of the original price back to apply towards something else. Since it cost me only peanuts out of pocket the first time, this drastically reduces the price of the gorgeous but expensive Transformer Prime this time around...


Lucky!
Prime looks like a beast of a tablet for sure!


----------



## bobnielsen

trdrjeff said:


> Nook color will still be your best bet as far as the ability to run a decent version of Android and have a good base of folks that hacking them. Also _VERY_ easy to return to stock once you are done playing Dr. Frankenstein


Also, they are practically unbrickable. Unlike the Nook Tablet and Kindle Fire, the bootloader isn't locked, which makes everything much easier. You can even run from a SD card without hacking the internal memory (although I installed CyanogenMod 7 internally after realizing I hadn't used the stock firmware for a few months). I still use it mostly as a reader with the BN and Aldiko apps.


----------



## BobaBird

Unboxing the Eee Pad Transformer Prime Tablet


----------



## treecastle

I had a Kindle Fire for a few days, rooted it, and I had what I thought was a very functional tablet. However, Amazon forced an update that killed all my efforts, and the Fire reverted to a color Kindle  I ended up returning the Fire. So, I found a 7" Samsung Galaxy Tab that I have found to be the best. I love the size (same as the Fire and it fits in my back pocket) and all my apps run. Best part is that it was $50 less than the Fire


----------



## Steve

*Engadget* is reporting that on 12/11, *HP* will be selling refurb'd webOS tablets on eBay, starting at 6PM (ET?).

The 16GB and 32GB tablets will be selling for $99 and $149 respectively.

[*more*]


----------



## CATCRAW

Another entering the market for cheap!!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2456..._tablet_to_debut_in_us.html#tk.nl_dnx_h_crawl


----------



## Steve

CATCRAW said:


> Another entering the market for cheap!!
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2456..._tablet_to_debut_in_us.html#tk.nl_dnx_h_crawl


Sounds like one helluva deal! Can't wait to see the reviews on that puppy.


----------



## HDJulie

If it is that price & runs ICS, I'll buy it. I hope it's lighter than the Fire.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

the chip is the only thing that puts me off on it. XBurst 1GHz CPU is whats inside the thing and i have zero knowledge of that chip personally. 

for the casual user sounds like a great deal regardless though, long as the other specs inside are up to par so the system isn't a slug running ICS....


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> the chip is the only thing that puts me off on it. XBurst 1GHz CPU is whats inside the thing and i have zero knowledge of that chip personally.
> 
> for the casual user sounds like a great deal regardless though, long as the other specs inside are up to par so the system isn't a slug running ICS....


Not sure I'd want to root it. As it stands, it's got the latest update of webOS that apparently cured the initial performance problems the reviewers complained about. And it's got a browser, e-mail app, Kindle app, audio player and video player, among about 100 other apps available. That's a pretty useful gadget for $99, IMHO.

And a browser on a 10" screen is a lot more useful than a browser on a 7" screen, IMHO.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Steve said:


> Not sure I'd want to root it. As it stands, it's got the latest update of webOS that apparently cured the initial performance problems the reviewers complained about. And it's got a browser, e-mail app, Kindle app, audio player and video player, among about 100 other apps available. That's a pretty useful gadget for $99, IMHO.
> 
> And a browser on a 10" screen is a lot more useful than a browser on a 7" screen, IMHO.


WebOS?? This is a android tablet running ICS i was talking about...


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> WebOS?? This is a android tablet running ICS i was talking about...


D'oh! My bad. I thought your reply to Julie was about my earlier HP post. I forgot I replied to *catcraw *in between, and she was replying to that.


----------



## F1 Fan

Well the Pope used a Samsung Tablet to light up the Christmas tree in Italy yesterday - so it's good enough for me


----------



## SPACEMAKER

I think I am going to wait and see how things go as far as which devices will be running Ice Cream Sandwich. I have a feeling that by spring, $300 is going to buy some really nice products.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

SPACEMAKER said:


> I think I am going to wait and see how things go as far as which devices will be running Ice Cream Sandwich. I have a feeling that by spring, $300 is going to buy some really nice products.


yup yup can't agree more! I am more eager to see how these people try to put their skin's on ICS as the big thing with ICS is it has incorporated a ton of the good features from companies overlays and such.

The thing looks real good stock, and makes me not miss Sense at all pretty much.

Starting to think about whats next in terms of what i would want in a tablet....HD Screen Resolution, 15hr battery life under use...Super fast response....HD camera/video capability....Big on-board harddrive with expandable SD slot....and a great OS.

Most of those have been checked off by now if not all. Now just need pricing to come down on those.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> yup yup can't agree more! I am more eager to see how these people try to put their skin's on ICS as the big thing with ICS is it has incorporated a ton of the good features from companies overlays and such.
> 
> The thing looks real good stock, and makes me not miss Sense at all pretty much.
> 
> Starting to think about whats next in terms of what i would want in a tablet....HD Screen Resolution, 15hr battery life under use...Super fast response....HD camera/video capability....Big on-board harddrive with expandable SD slot....and a great OS.
> 
> Most of those have been checked off by now if not all. Now just need pricing to come down on those.


It will be interesting to see what the next generation of Galaxy Tabs bring. I just need the price to be something I can justify. Especially since I'll end up paying $300 for the Galaxy Nexus phone in January.


----------



## Steve

SPACEMAKER said:


> It will be interesting to see what the next generation of Galaxy Tabs bring.


I agree. You have to think Samsung is working on a quad-core tablet as well. I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen any pre-announcements or "leaks" about what's coming down the pike.


----------



## ncxcstud

Has anyone heard or seen pre-orders from best buy regarding the Transformer Prime?


----------



## FHSPSU67

Great tracking website Now in Stock
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/tablets/asus/
Not at present, but there have been rumors that they'll show up in stores starting 12/19.


----------



## Drew2k

Everything I've been reading about the Transformer Prime has it being delayed to January while ASUS works out issues with underperforming Wi-Fi radios...

Here's just one article: http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-transformer-prime-possibly-delayed-until-2012-wifi-issues


----------



## Rich

Just got *this* from CNet.

Details on the Apple iPad3.

Rich


----------



## FHSPSU67

Drew2k said:


> Everything I've been reading about the Transformer Prime has it being delayed to January while ASUS works out issues with underperforming Wi-Fi radios...
> 
> Here's just one article: http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-transformer-prime-possibly-delayed-until-2012-wifi-issues


This story has been refuted by ASUS, who insists they are sticking to the 12/19 date..
In fact your link now shows the update
Also just saw this on the Verge:
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/10/2627270/asus-denies-rumors-of-transformer-prime-delay


----------



## BubblePuppy

"Rich" said:


> Just got this from CNet.
> 
> Details on the Apple iPad3.
> 
> Rich


Aren't these just the usual speculations and rumors, not facts?


----------



## Drew2k

FHSPSU67 said:


> This story has been refuted by ASUS, who insists they are sticking to the 12/19 date..
> In fact your link now shows the update
> Also just saw this on the Verge:
> http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/10/2627270/asus-denies-rumors-of-transformer-prime-delay


Well that's good news then!

I read the Android Central article when it came out, and didn't go back to re-read it today after Googling the headline. My mistake!


----------



## FHSPSU67

Drew2k said:


> Well that's good news then!
> 
> I read the Android Central article when it came out, and didn't go back to re-read it today after Googling the headline. My mistake!


It's driving me crazy trying to keep up with the ups and downs of getting this lovely beast to market. I have the 64GB Champagne-Gold pre-ordered from J&R.


----------



## Drew2k

FHSPSU67 said:


> It's driving me crazy trying to keep up with the ups and downs of getting this lovely beast to market. I have the 64GB Champagne-Gold pre-ordered from J&R.


I'm waiting to hear if there will be a Verizon LTE version, but I highly doubt it.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Drew2k" said:


> Everything I've been reading about the Transformer Prime has it being delayed to January while ASUS works out issues with underperforming Wi-Fi radios...
> 
> Here's just one article: http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-transformer-prime-possibly-delayed-until-2012-wifi-issues


Same thing ice been reading about too.

BUT you really have to think about this some as I personally don't buy their reasoning one bit. The tablets are already made and ready and what they are talking about is a minor issue that happens with almost all cellphones released today. Most of the time after release you have another OTA to fix new bugs that came up. Now to delay this beast for WiFi being poor in strength some is ludicris unless they are going to recall all the ones made already and put in a new chip which is highly unlikely. 
I think there's some other semi major issue going on because what they are doing now is killing all the Xmas sales for it. Something any company would never do less something major was wrong....

Edit:
Looks like I didn't go back and read again either. LOL

Thought delaying a product like this because simply poor WiFi strength is really odd. And now we see they likely are not delaying them. LOL


----------



## FHSPSU67

Drew2k said:


> I'm waiting to hear if there will be a Verizon LTE version, but I highly doubt it.


Yeah, I'm afraid WiFi is it, but who knows the way this is going. Maybe all they need is a call from Verizon or ATT.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

In other news my wife had a kindle ordered with her company perk points and when that order got delayed she ended up hastely going and buying a kindle fire to use on her work trip this week. 

First time I ever messed with one personally and I kinda see the draw to it but never ever would I get one myself. Seems like an amazon went all Apple on googles OS as you can't do.much to it other than what they allow which isn't very much. I mean the Twitter and Facebook apps do nothing than direct you to their respective mobile websites. LOL
For those that want an ereader I guess they are great for the price as they do a lil more than the reg ereader.

I know you can root it and get CM on it and change the launcher but still is rather have the full blown tablet like the transformer than this.

My wife loves it though and that's all that counts in this house. 
True test will be how she feels about it after her trip flying back across the country this week and using it more....


----------



## mystic7

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Seems like amazon went all Apple on googles OS....


I nominate this as sentence of the year.


----------



## mystic7

Stuart Sweet said:


> I don't want quality - I have an iPad for that. I want to drill into it with every known hack, visit every known questionable site, install every bad app imaginable. Then cackle like a madman, wipe it and start again.


In that case I would suggest an Etch-A-Sketch with Wi-Fi


----------



## Drew2k

The latest update for the Kindle Fire "undoes" some of the "Apple-like" restrictions. For example, users can now access the Google Android Market web page (previously was blocked) and can now install book readers from competitors, and can now customize the carousel. Progress ...


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Drew2k" said:


> The latest update for the Kindle Fire "undoes" some of the "Apple-like" restrictions. For example, users can now access the Google Android Market web page (previously was blocked) and can now install book readers from competitors, and can now customize the carousel. Progress ...


Still no Google market though as a whole. Also allowing access to the market webpage is not same as allowing install from there. 
But i guess the inability for the market apps is a Google problem bc amazon tweaked OS so much Google won't allow it.


----------



## ncxcstud

So, my wife and I ended up getting the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 as a 'temporary' tablet until the Transformer Prime is finally available at Best Buy. We've got till the middle of February to exchange it, I'm hoping some will be available before then


----------



## mystic7

Just to update, I did end up re-buying a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 for $449.00. Not being a tech geek I was surprised to find myself wishing I hadn't returned the other one. I'm glad I was able to get it for the same good price I paid previously. Enjoying it so much I've hardly touched my new Les Paul, although I'm sure that situation will change shortly. Anyway, just lettin' ya's know.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"mystic7" said:


> Just to update, I did end up re-buying a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 for $449.00. Not being a tech geek I was surprised to find myself wishing I hadn't returned the other one. I'm glad I was able to get it for the same good price I paid previously. Enjoying it so much I've hardly touched my new Les Paul, although I'm sure that situation will change shortly. Anyway, just lettin' ya's know.


Why not just get the transformer prime? Beast of a tablet and it'll get the latest OS in a lil over a week. Also only a hair more $ and worth it IMHO spec wise and UI at least.


----------



## ncxcstud

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Why not just get the transformer prime? Beast of a tablet and it'll get the latest OS in a lil over a week. Also only a hair more $ and worth it IMHO spec wise and UI at least.


He can always return it if it is actually in stores within the return period. I'm in the process of doing that at Best Buy but it seems Asus is having a helluva time supplying the thing to stores.


----------



## Steve

According to one report, it looks like Google may feel sufficiently threatened by the Fire that it's working on a 7" ICS tablet that may sell for $199 or less! :up: This might be the tablet Eric Schmidt mentioned Google was working on in a recent interview.

Don't you just love competition?


----------



## Drew2k

Steve said:


> According to one report, it looks like Google may feel sufficiently threatened by the Fire that it's working on a 7" ICS tablet that may sell for $199 or less! :up: This might be the tablet Eric Schmidt mentioned Google was working on in a recent interview.
> 
> Don't you just love competition?


Wellll... maybe not?

From ComputerWorld: *A Google Nexus tablet to kill the Kindle Fire? Hang on a sec, folks*

http://blogs.computerworld.com/19523/google_nexus_tablet



> Google's making a Nexus-branded Android tablet with a sub-$200 price? Before you put too much stock in the blogosphere's latest juicy rumor, let's take a moment to consider its origins.


But yes... I do love competition!


----------



## Steve

Drew2k said:


> Wellll... maybe not?


Ya, but if you add this to the Schmidt comments last month, where there's smoke, there's fire, IMHO.

Makes sense that Google's not gonna stand idly by and let Amazon (and, to a lesser extent, B&N) cannibalize "pure" Droid tablet sales in that price range. If anyone can afford to subsidize tablets, it's Google, IMHO, given how much advertising revenue they can get from a device that features Google apps and services. Just my .02.


----------



## Drew2k

Steve said:


> Ya, but if you add this to the Schmidt comments last month, where there's smoke, there's fire, IMHO.


:lol: But that comment itself is addressed as the first point in the article: the Schmidt comment was widely reported based on a translation from Italian, so it's not clear that he ever said Google was building a tablet!



> Makes sense that Google's not gonna stand idly by and let Amazon (and, to a lesser extent, B&N) cannibalize "pure" Droid tablet sales in that price range. If anyone can afford to subsidize tablets, it's Google, IMHO, given how much advertising revenue they can get from a device that features Google apps and services. Just my .02.


I do agree with this: it's in Google's best interest to have the Android interface as widely used on as many devices as possible, so countering Amazon and the Fire has got to be on El Goog's radar.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Ya, but if you add this to the Schmidt comments last month, where there's smoke, there's fire, IMHO.
> 
> Makes sense that Google's not gonna stand idly by and let Amazon (and, to a lesser extent, B&N) cannibalize "pure" Droid tablet sales in that price range. If anyone can afford to subsidize tablets, it's Google, IMHO, given how much advertising revenue they can get from a device that features Google apps and services. Just my .02.


How easy are iPads to use? Check *this* out.

Rich


----------



## yosoyellobo

Rich said:


> How easy are iPads to use? Check *this* out.
> 
> Rich


So easy a caveman could use them.


----------



## Rich

yosoyellobo said:


> So easy a caveman could use them.


My granddaughter was using mine right after I got it and *Steve's* granddaughter (who is even younger) has been doing the same thing. Gotta love Apple for simplicity.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> My granddaughter was using mine right after I got it and *Steve's* granddaughter (who is even younger) has been doing the same thing. Gotta love Apple for simplicity.


We went out to dinner on New Year's Day, and my daughter's iPad kept her son (my 19-month old grandson) occupied and quiet in the restaurant, once he finished his meal.


----------



## RasputinAXP

My 4 year old plays about 10 different games on my Xoom, including Wind Up Knight, which he's actually a bit better at than I am.

My 2 year old needs me to unlock it for him but plays Angry Birds like a pro.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Steve said:


> According to one report, it looks like Google may feel sufficiently threatened by the Fire that it's working on a 7" ICS tablet that may sell for $199 or less! :up: This might be the tablet Eric Schmidt mentioned Google was working on in a recent interview.
> 
> Don't you just love competition?


I am eagerly to see how this develops. Perfect price and a great platform. If this happens I will buy one.


----------



## Steve

SPACEMAKER said:


> I am eagerly to see how this develops. Perfect price and a great platform. If this happens I will buy one.


What I'd like to see is an inexpensive, 5" tablet replacement for my iPod. I think I'd still be able to slip a device that size into my pocket, and it would be a nice upgrade from the iPod's 3.5" screen for e-mail, music or video playback, and even e-book reading when I'm out and about and have some time to kill.


----------



## Drew2k

Steve said:


> What I'd like to see is an inexpensive, 5" tablet replacement for my iPod. I think I'd still be able to slip a device that size into my pocket, and it would be a nice upgrade from the iPod's 3.5" screen for e-mail, music or video playback, and even e-book reading when I'm out and about and have some time to kill.


Steve - Not sure who your phone carrier is, or how much time you have left on your current contract, but you could get that 5" tablet feel you are looking for by getting the Samsung Galaxy Nexus today! It has a 5" screen (more like 5.25"), impressive graphics and response times, has Ice Cream Sandwich, and definitely fits into the pocket. I got this phone when it came out in December and have been very happy with it, and find I'm doing things on my phone that I was previously only doing on my tablet.

(It's on Verizon and rumors are Sprint is about to get it. If you're looking for WiFi only, I guess you'll have to find something else!)


----------



## Steve

Drew2k said:


> Steve - Not sure who your phone carrier is, or how much time you have left on your current contract, but you could get that 5" tablet feel you are looking for by getting the Samsung Galaxy Nexus today! It has a 5" screen (more like 5.25"), impressive graphics and response times, has Ice Cream Sandwich, and definitely fits into the pocket. I got this phone when it came out in December and have been very happy with it, and find I'm doing things on my phone that I was previously only doing on my tablet.
> 
> (It's on Verizon and rumors are Sprint is about to get it. If you're looking for WiFi only, I guess you'll have to find something else!)


Ya. That Galaxy is a sweet phone, but my needs are wifi only. I'm retired and home most of the time, so I can't justify the expense of a data plan.

Samsung does have a 5" wifi only player, but I was disappointed in this review, because I'm a fanatic about audio quality, where the iPod excels. I'm watching this to see if it's a hardware or software issue. My guess is it's hardware, because in this day and age, I find it hard to imagine a software player causing audio distortion. :scratchin


----------



## dualsub2006

"Steve" said:


> What I'd like to see is an inexpensive, 5" tablet replacement for my iPod. I think I'd still be able to slip a device that size into my pocket, and it would be a nice upgrade from the iPod's 3.5" screen for e-mail, music or video playback, and even e-book reading when I'm out and about and have some time to kill.


I bought a 7" Acer A100 and I absolutely love the size. I carry the thing around in my back pocket all the time, and I have pants that will hold it in the front pocket as well. It is, for me, the perfect size.


----------



## zx10guy

Steve said:


> What I'd like to see is an inexpensive, 5" tablet replacement for my iPod. I think I'd still be able to slip a device that size into my pocket, and it would be a nice upgrade from the iPod's 3.5" screen for e-mail, music or video playback, and even e-book reading when I'm out and about and have some time to kill.


It's too bad that Fujitsu stopped selling the UH900(U/G90N). This little device had a 5.6" touch screen display, an actual keyboard, and depending on which model....decent hardware specs.

I picked up the Japanese version which is the U/G90N. The Japenese version came equipped with a 2 GHz Atom processor, 2 GB of memory, 62 GB SSD harddrive, 2 USB ports, expansion port to allow external VGA and 100 Mb ethernet connectivity, 802.11a/b/g/n wireless, SD card interface, web cam, and WiMax adapter.

The UH900 US version has all of the above except having a 1.6 GHz Atom processor and no WiMax interface. I think it does have GPS capability which the Japanese version doesn't.

The unit ships with Windows 7 Home. I've used this as my main traveling companion for a couple of years until I upgraded to an Asus EP121.

You may be able to buy this unit new if anyone still has them in stock or used.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Steve said:


> Ya. That Galaxy is a sweet phone, but my needs are wifi only. I'm retired and home most of the time, so I can't justify the expense of a data plan.
> 
> Samsung does have a 5" wifi only player, but I was disappointed in this review, because I'm a fanatic about audio quality, where the iPod excels. I'm watching this to see if it's a hardware or software issue. My guess is it's hardware, because in this day and age, *I find it hard to imagine a software player causing audio distortion. *:scratchin


over on xda-dev a developer was doing some amazing things for the Evo3D's kernel. He had access to Qualcomm's private git at the time and using their source with "Beats" included in it instead of HTC's kernel source, the audio quality was just amazing. Using specific drivers for the audio and such along with the coding done, made gigantic improvement in audio quality.

just saying dont blame hardware for everything as software and such can make huge differences in the quality.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Some nice tablets being shown off at CES. More 1080p tablets now. Personally I'm really wanting to be able to hold out till Qualcomm's new S4 chips are used, esp if I get an LTE enabled one. Really like the advantage of having the LTE modem built onto the die which is supposed to make battery usage a lot better when using LTE at least.


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> just saying dont blame hardware for everything as software and such can make huge differences in the quality.


Good point. Since I'm relatively happy with the iPod (after being an "early adopter" of all three Zune models), I may just wait and see if, when they finally come out with an iPhone 5, they also do an iPod refresh. Everyone is expecting the iPhone 5 to have a larger screen, so I'm guessing a new iPod will probably be based on similar hardware, without phone circuitry.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Drew2k said:


> Steve - Not sure who your phone carrier is, or how much time you have left on your current contract, but you could get that 5" tablet feel you are looking for by getting the Samsung Galaxy Nexus today! It has a 5" screen (more like 5.25"), impressive graphics and response times, has Ice Cream Sandwich, and definitely fits into the pocket. I got this phone when it came out in December and have been very happy with it, and find I'm doing things on my phone that I was previously only doing on my tablet.
> 
> (It's on Verizon and rumors are Sprint is about to get it. If you're looking for WiFi only, I guess you'll have to find something else!)


The actual screen size is 4.65.

I was going to get one until I realized that I didn't want to spend $300 on a phone.

I'm thinking I might pick up a Thunderbolt (which is supposed to be getting ICS this month) and waiting patiently for a quality $200 tablet.


----------



## Drew2k

SPACEMAKER said:


> The actual screen size is 4.65.
> 
> I was going to get one until I realized that I didn't want to spend $300 on a phone.
> 
> I'm thinking I might pick up a Thunderbolt (which is supposed to be getting ICS this month) and waiting patiently for a quality $200 tablet.


Yeah, I mixed up the screen size with the phone size. Thanks for clarifying. (The screen certainly FEELS much bigger than it is!)


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Drew2k said:


> Yeah, I mixed up the screen size with the phone size. Thanks for clarifying. (The screen certainly FEELS much bigger than it is!)


I played with a Nexus at the Verizon store and it's a beautiful phone. Best display I have seen by a mile.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

SPACEMAKER said:


> The actual screen size is 4.65.
> 
> I was going to get one until I realized that I didn't want to spend $300 on a phone.
> 
> I'm thinking I might pick up a* Thunderbolt (which is supposed to be getting ICS this month)* and waiting patiently for a quality $200 tablet.


just an fwi on the whole ICS jan thing.
http://blogs.computerworld.com/19541/htc_ice_cream_sandwich_thunderbolt

if your with verizon why not get the Rezound? much better phone.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Well you wanted a cheaper tablet that has amazing specs here ya go...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/nvidia-and-asus-tease-7-inch-tegra-3-tablet-with-ics-and-249-pr/

$249 7in Terga 3 tablet.


----------



## Drew2k

Vizio is also getting into the 10" Android tablet market, and has a new 7" Android tablet coming as well. 

I tried Vizio's first 7" tablet mid-to-late 2011 and it was "ok", but was really just too slow for me. I would hope the new tablets are going to be a lot faster...


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> just an fwi on the whole ICS jan thing.
> http://blogs.computerworld.com/19541/htc_ice_cream_sandwich_thunderbolt
> 
> if your with verizon why not get the Rezound? much better phone.


I was afraid that the T-Bolt ICS thing was a bit sketchy.

In what specific way(s) is the Rezound a much better phone?


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Well you wanted a cheaper tablet that has amazing specs here ya go...
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/09/nvidia-and-asus-tease-7-inch-tegra-3-tablet-with-ics-and-249-pr/
> 
> $249 7in Terga 3 tablet.


That thing is pretty stout. The 8mp camera is really nice.

Still going to hold out into April and see what develops.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

SPACEMAKER said:


> I was afraid that the T-Bolt ICS thing was a bit sketchy.
> 
> In what specific way(s) is the Rezound a much better phone?


Pretty much every single aspect of the Rezound is better than the TBolt.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

SPACEMAKER said:


> That thing is pretty stout. The 8mp camera is really nice.
> 
> Still going to hold out into April and see what develops.


Price is right for me as i could squeak that past the Mrs. with out much care/thought but really looking for 10in tablet here so the 7.7in wont cut it.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Pretty much every single aspect of the Rezound is better than the TBolt.


I thought you were comparing the NEXUS to the Rezound.

Compared to the T-Bolt I agree that the Rezound is better. But the Rezound is $250-300 while T-Bolt is $50-100.

For me, I am planning on spending a total of $300 between a phone and tablet over the next few months.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"SPACEMAKER" said:


> I thought you were comparing the NEXUS to the Rezound.
> 
> Compared to the T-Bolt I agree that the Rezound is better. But the Rezound is $250-300 while T-Bolt is $50-100.
> 
> For me, I am planning on spending a total of $300 between a phone and tablet over the next few months.


Ahh well then scratch the rezound lol

That 7in tablet might be ur best bet then with a phone too....


----------



## Steve

The Prime finally started shipping, but Asus already 1-upped it with a new model, the Prime TF700T. It sports a higher resolution screen and front camera, gorilla glass and addresses an issue with the Prim's GPS, all at the same price, AFAIK.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/9/26...r-prime-tf700t-1920-x-1200-android-4-ces-2012

They should auto-upgrade Prime early adopters, IMHO. What will probably happen is Prime early adopters will return their units and repurchase the new one. Then Asus marketeers will be able to claim they sold twice as many!


----------



## Steve

This seems like it will be good for the industry. Gorilla Glass "2" is supposedly 20% thinner, but just as tough and scratch-resistant as before. And because it's thinner, they also claim greater clarity and touch response. :up:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/corning_displays_thinner_gorilla_glass_ces_2012


----------



## TBlazer07

SPACEMAKER said:


> I played with a Nexus at the Verizon store and it's a beautiful phone. Best display I have seen by a mile.


I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus (GSM version running on T-Mo) and the 4.65 screen size is VERY misleading. It's actually smaller than the screen on my 4.5" Galaxy S2 was. They include the ICS "soft buttons" in the screen size which don't go away except in 1 or 2 Google apps (because they are needed with most every app). Actually it's closer to 4.3" usable diagonal measurement than 4.65.


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> This seems like it will be good for the industry. Gorilla Glass "2" is supposedly 20% thinner, but just as tough and scratch-resistant as before. And because it's thinner, they also claim greater clarity and touch response. :up:
> 
> http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/corning_displays_thinner_gorilla_glass_ces_2012


They have to kill way too many gorillas to make all that gorilla glass.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Steve said:


> The Prime finally started shipping, but Asus already 1-upped it with a new model, the Prime TF700T. It sports a higher resolution screen and front camera, gorilla glass and addresses an issue with the Prim's GPS, all at the same price, AFAIK.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/9/26...r-prime-tf700t-1920-x-1200-android-4-ces-2012
> 
> They should auto-upgrade Prime early adopters, IMHO. What will probably happen is Prime early adopters will return their units and repurchase the new one. Then Asus marketeers will be able to claim they sold twice as many!


Actually $599 for 32GB and $699 for 64GB which is $100 additional. It;s being questioned what the higher resolution will do to battery life. Personally I can't see 1920x1200 being that much of adifference and will be happy with my 64GB Prime, if I ever get the beast


----------



## Steve

Seems to me there's no longer a need to root a Fire or a Nook Tablet, if you can get this 7" puppy for $249 with quad cores + ICS!



> NVIDIA and ASUS have announced not only the first official (according to Google) Ice Cream Sandwich tablet this week with the Transformer Prime (its release from today,) they've come out with the real release of the ASUS Eee Pad MeMO, a 7-inch tablet with a quad-core processor and Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich, all of it for a mere $249. [*more*]


----------



## SPACEMAKER

"Steve" said:


> Seems to me there's no longer a need to root a Fire or a Nook Tablet, if you can get this 7" puppy for $249 with quad cores + ICS!


Game changer.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

SPACEMAKER said:


> Game changer.


makes me wonder why anyone would bother a 7in tablet over $250 from now on. Yet you see stuff like Acer doing a 10.1in 1280 x 800 display the A200 which starts at $330 with 8GB, and its using the Terga2....Can't see how many ppl would sprint for that tablet to be honest. you get 3in screen space but also get outdated hardware to boot, and pay more for it...


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

On another note I saw Motorola is doing what they call "Motorola Feedback Network" which kinda seems like the CE program for DIRECTV in a sense or at least a somewhat Beta program and youll receive early Beta test builds on your device.

for example Xoom owners getting ICS builds now evidently...anyone in here apart of this?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/13/motorola-starts-rolling-out-its-xoom-project-opens-up-a-big/


----------



## TBlazer07

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> makes me wonder why anyone would bother a 7in tablet over $250 from now on.


Just for the size. Price doesn't always have anything to do with it. Many people would rather carry a 7" or 8" device rather than a 10" one. Bigger isn't always better, it's what you use it for that matters.


----------



## lparsons21

TBlazer07 said:


> Just for the size. Price doesn't always have anything to do with it. Many people would rather carry a 7" or 8" device rather than a 10" one. Bigger isn't always better, it's what you use it for that matters.


In today's tablet market, it appears that the bulk of buyers prefer the 10" size. Since Apple is still the elephant in the tent in this market, it remains to be seen if the other sizes and models can really penetrate effectively.

One analyst says that Android tablet sales have been 'disappointing'.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/01/13/snapshot-of-computer-market-with-and-without-the-ipad/


----------



## TBlazer07

lparsons21 said:


> In today's tablet market, it appears that the bulk of buyers prefer the 10" size. Since Apple is still the elephant in the tent in this market, it remains to be seen if the other sizes and models can really penetrate effectively.
> 
> One analyst says that Android tablet sales have been 'disappointing'.
> 
> http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/01/13/snapshot-of-computer-market-with-and-without-the-ipad/


I agree but that doesn't "not make it worth" paying $250 for 7" tablet if that is the size you need for what you do.

I had 2 Android tablets (a 10" Asus and 10" Samsung Galaxy) before I ended up with an iPad. As much as I dislike Apple (have a Nexus phone) no Android tablet will come close to "killing" the iPad. I'm not referring to configurabilty, but just "how it works" and the available software, and the accessories etc. I get 7-10 day of light use out of the iPad and it still has 15-20% battery. The Andriod tablets I had with the same or less use were completely dead in a few days. I don't like the "square" screen though. Also, rumor is not to be surprised if you see a 7" or 8" iPad soon.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

TBlazer07 said:


> Just for the size. Price doesn't always have anything to do with it. Many people would rather carry a 7" or 8" device rather than a 10" one. Bigger isn't always better, it's what you use it for that matters.


I might of worded my post wrong b/c I'm agreeing with you it seems. I was simply saying paying that much more for the 10in Acer seemed a bit redic since it uses an old Terga2 chip in it. Esp when you compare that you could get a redic spec wise tablet at 7in for $250 soon.

simply put is paying $80 more worth having 3in more screen space yet having a much older CPU 1/2 the speed? imho id rather have the 7in thats got better specs than the slower 10in. And id save money in the end.

you just dont see people paying more for older tech often is my biggest point.


----------



## lparsons21

TBlazer07 said:


> I agree but that doesn't "not make it worth" paying $250 for 7" tablet if that is the size you need for what you do.
> 
> I had 2 Android tablets (a 10" Asus and 10" Samsung Galaxy) before I ended up with an iPad. As much as I dislike Apple (have a Nexus phone) no Android tablet will come close to "killing" the iPad. I'm not referring to configurabilty, but just "how it works" and the available software, and the accessories etc. I get 7-10 day of light use out of the iPad and it still has 15-20% battery. The Andriod tablets I had with the same or less use were completely dead in a few days. I don't like the "square" screen though. Also, rumor is not to be surprised if you see a 7" or 8" iPad soon.


I have an Android phone, the HTC Wildfire S, and it does fine for what I want to do with it. ie; make phone calls and use it as a golf gps. It is rather slow, but then the data offered here is pretty slow too, so I guess it fits!! 

And I don't begrudge what others buy at all. I bought an original iPad the week they came out and use it everyday. Fit and finish of both the hardware and the apps is excellent, Apple certainly got that right.

As to a 7 or 8" iPad, might happen. I think it will depend on whether Apple thinks it would not hurt the 10" size sales, and how well the other guys do in getting significant marketshare with theirs.

At the moment, it appears that the only real competition to the iPad may be the Amazon Fire with its own walled garden approach. Hard to say though, because Amazon really never says what the sale are except in marketspeak!


----------



## Leftcoastdave

Steve said:


> Ya. That Galaxy is a sweet phone, but my needs are wifi only. I'm retired and home most of the time, so I can't justify the expense of a data plan.
> 
> Samsung does have a 5" wifi only player, but I was disappointed in this review, because I'm a fanatic about audio quality, where the iPod excels. I'm watching this to see if it's a hardware or software issue. My guess is it's hardware, because in this day and age, I find it hard to imagine a software player causing audio distortion. :scratchin


Retiree here too. I am with ATT on a no contract prepaid plan. I bought a Samsung Galaxy S on ebay for $200 in order to move from analog to a Droid phone. I wanted data access and Android capability. I probably make less than 25 mobile calls per year. This phone requires a data plan if you want to use Android features.

I buy $100 voice time per year w/rollover permission (calls are $0.25/minute). Gophone now has modest data plans for prepaid customers starting at $5/month. Unused bytes also rollover if you renew data every 30 days.

I make few phone calls on my mobile phone but really like the Android features and notifications when around the house on wifi or out and about on ATT 3G networks. I do not text, I do not stream video or watch live TV on my phone. I want data access for stock market alerts, email notifications, and clock functions. The Galaxy S is a 3G phone. Unlike the youth in our society, I not want nor will I pay a premium for the latest digital gadget.

Don't know if my scheme will work for you but in my case $5/month for a modest data plan is a great deal. I never burn enough minutes or bytes to require unscheduled refills.

Dave


----------



## SPACEMAKER

For me, a 7" tablet would be better than a 10". I will mostly use mine for surfing, tweeting, FB and games while hanging out on the couch or laying in bed. And I want wi-fi only.

On a side note, I bought an HTC Thunderbolt from Best Buy yesterday brand new for only $50 and I love it. But I am going to try to root it this weekend. All of that Verizon bloatware sucks.


----------



## Steve

This Ainovo $79, 7" ICS tablet may be all you need if your primary tablet needs are e-books, movies and audio playback. I watched the video. It looks like a decent piece of equipment. :up: It's got 8GB memory and a 1 Ghz CPU. Mini-USB and a microSD card slot too, if you want to load it up with video.


----------



## diogenes433

love my Toshiba Thrive, MLB.tv app is great, much cheaper than mlb extra innings and available through the HDMI out on the Thrive in 720p. Also I can get mlb.tv through my ROKU .


----------



## diogenes433

love my Toshiba Thrive, MLB.tv app is great, much cheaper than mlb extra innings and available through the HDMI out on the Thrive in 720p. Also I can get mlb.tv through my ROKU . Wake up DIRECTV, the times they are a changing....


----------



## bobnielsen

Steve said:


> This Ainovo $79, 7" ICS tablet may be all you need if your primary tablet needs are e-books, movies and audio playback. I watched the video. It looks like a decent piece of equipment. :up: It's got 8GB memory and a 1 Ghz CPU. Mini-USB and a microSD card slot too, if you want to load it up with video.


And to think I paid $249 for a Nook Color only a year ago....

I loaded ICS on the Nook today (a CyanogenMod 9 snapshot) and it looks pretty slick, compared to stock or CM7, even though it is still a work-in-progress.


----------



## SPACEMAKER

"Steve" said:


> This Ainovo $79, 7" ICS tablet may be all you need if your primary tablet needs are e-books, movies and audio playback. I watched the video. It looks like a decent piece of equipment. :up: It's got 8GB memory and a 1 Ghz CPU. Mini-USB and a microSD card slot too, if you want to load it up with video.


Wow. This would be perfect for my wife and/or kid.


----------



## Steve

I found another Ainovo video. Seems pretty snappy!

Not sure why I can't embed the video here, but here's the link:


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> I found another Ainovo video. Seems pretty snappy!
> 
> Not sure why I can't embed the video here, but here's the link:


Can't get audio on it.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> Can't get audio on it.


Me neither. It looks like if it did have commentary, it would be in Chinese anyway. I was impressed with how responsive it appeared to be in that video, tho.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Me neither. It looks like if it did have commentary, it would be in Chinese anyway. I was impressed with how responsive it appeared to be in that video, tho.


Awfully cheap for a capacative screen, tho. I don't think I've ever seen a resistance based screen work that fast.

Rich


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Steve said:


> This Ainovo $79, 7" ICS tablet may be all you need if your primary tablet needs are e-books, movies and audio playback. I watched the video. It looks like a decent piece of equipment. :up: It's got 8GB memory and a 1 Ghz CPU. Mini-USB and a microSD card slot too, if you want to load it up with video.


this actually peeked my interests purely on price and running ICS with expandable memory alone. 
Surprised they did this with a 1GHz chip and the thing doesn't seem laggy and like a slug...

haven't watched the video of it yet or read any more than what you've posted but does it have straight ICS on it or did they use their own lil overlay? If overlay I wonder if it gets full google certified and actually has the google apps on it and market, or if they did what amazon did and strip it down and in turn you lose some of the google framework stuff.

whats the resolution of the screen? icons seem lil big there.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Amazon is finally shipping my ASUS 64GB Champagne Prime and I will get it Monday!
My wife will get my original ASUS transformer as a much belated Christmas present


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> whats the resolution of the screen?


800x480, so DVD quality. Fine for a 7" screen, IMHO.


----------



## ncxcstud

FHSPSU67 said:


> Amazon is finally shipping my ASUS 64GB Champagne Prime and I will get it Monday!
> My wife will get my original ASUS transformer as a much belated Christmas present


I swung by Best Buy yesterday in hopes of exchanging my Galaxy Tab 10.1 for a Transformer Prime. They had just sold the last one in store.. Bah, they get delivery trucks today, I may brave the 'storm' and go by later this evening or tomorrow in hopes of getting it.


----------



## FHSPSU67

ncxcstud said:


> I swung by Best Buy yesterday in hopes of exchanging my Galaxy Tab 10.1 for a Transformer Prime. They had just sold the last one in store.. Bah, they get delivery trucks today, I may brave the 'storm' and go by later this evening or tomorrow in hopes of getting it.


Good Luck!
I'm sure we'll both love ours


----------



## Steve

FHSPSU67 said:


> Good Luck!
> I'm sure we'll both love ours


From reading this, sounds like the smoothness of "ambitious" apps running under ICS will really benefit from the Prime's quad-core CPU.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> From reading this, sounds like the smoothness of "ambitious" apps running under ICS will really benefit from the Prime's quad-core CPU.


Glad you got the 2,000th post on this thread. You've kept it going and deserve credit for that. When I started this thread, I was asked why we needed "another" thread about tablets. Guess we did.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> When I started this thread, I was asked why we needed "another" thread about tablets. Guess we did.


I've been fascinated by the promise of touch-screen devices for over 20 years now (and obviously still am! ). The real kudos, IMHO, should go to the late Mr. Jobs for finally figuring out a way to make them usable... and extremely useful!


----------



## Cholly

Intriguing announcement from X10 USA in their latest flyer - They've upgraded their tablets - the 7 inch tablet has Android Ice Cream Sandwich installed and the improved 10 inch tablet will have Ice Cream Sandwich in February. Here's a way of getting into tablets on the cheap. Specs aren't outstanding, but probably compare favorably to the Kindle Fire (I haven't checked as yet). 

From the flyer:

X10 AirPad XL 10.1" Android Tablet Specifications 
CPU:	1 Ghz ARM Cortex A10 processor + 395 Mhz DSP
Display:	10.1" 1024x600 resolution TFT LCD screen
Touch-screen:	Capacitive multi-touch
OS:	Android 2.3.4 (4.0 Ice Cream Upgradable), Flash 10.2
Camera:	1.3 Megapixel camera with video recording & playback
Sensors:	3-axis accelerometer
RAM:	512 MB
Memory: 4 GB onboard, up to 36 GB with microSD card
Battery Life: 14 hours movie, 50 hours music, 10 hours web surfing
Network:	WiFi (802.11b/g/n)
Ports:	HDMI supporting 1080P output, USB
Size:	10.39" x 6.34" x .62"
Battery:	8500 mAh rechargeable lithium polymer
X10 AirPad XL 10-inch Android 2.3.4 Gingerbread Tablet PC:$249.99


The new AirPad XL is powered by Android 2.3.4, and will be upgradable to Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) in February.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Cholly said:


> Intriguing announcement from X10 USA in their latest flyer - They've upgraded their tablets - the 7 inch tablet has Android Ice Cream Sandwich installed and the improved 10 inch tablet will have Ice Cream Sandwich in February. Here's a way of getting into tablets on the cheap. Specs aren't outstanding, but probably compare favorably to the Kindle Fire (I haven't checked as yet).
> 
> From the flyer:
> 
> X10 AirPad XL 10.1" Android Tablet Specifications
> CPU:	1 Ghz ARM Cortex A10 processor + 395 Mhz DSP
> Display:	10.1" 1024x600 resolution TFT LCD screen
> Touch-screen:	Capacitive multi-touch
> OS:	Android 2.3.4 (4.0 Ice Cream Upgradable), Flash 10.2
> Camera:	1.3 Megapixel camera with video recording & playback
> Sensors:	3-axis accelerometer
> RAM:	512 MB
> Memory: 4 GB onboard, up to 36 GB with microSD card
> Battery Life: 14 hours movie, 50 hours music, 10 hours web surfing
> Network:	WiFi (802.11b/g/n)
> Ports:	HDMI supporting 1080P output, USB
> Size:	10.39" x 6.34" x .62"
> Battery:	8500 mAh rechargeable lithium polymer
> X10 AirPad XL 10-inch Android 2.3.4 Gingerbread Tablet PC:$249.99
> 
> The new AirPad XL is powered by Android 2.3.4, and will be upgradable to Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) in February.


Ehh seems lil meh compared to some others. I still look forward to seeing how these devices planning on only running 1Ghz single core chips actually handle the intensive stuff ICS can do along with the other tasks done on Android. Vanilla ICS would be the only hope imho to run decent on that chip less you do what Amazon did and dont make it an official google product and strip a bunch of things out of it.


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Ehh seems lil meh compared to some others. I still look forward to seeing how these devices planning on only running 1Ghz single core chips actually handle the intensive stuff ICS can do along with the other tasks done on Android. Vanilla ICS would be the only hope imho to run decent on that chip less you do what Amazon did and dont make it an official google product and strip a bunch of things out of it.


Ya, I'd be really surprised to see ICS on a 1ghz single-core chip period, based on that review I posted elsewhere in this thread.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/perlow/on-tablets-android-40-is-an-ice-cream-headache/19643?tag=nl.e539


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Steve said:


> Ya, I'd be really surprised to see ICS on a 1ghz single-core chip period, based on that review I posted elsewhere in this thread.
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/perlow/on-tablets-android-40-is-an-ice-cream-headache/19643?tag=nl.e539


Yeah I mean google said they felt that "ALMOST all" devices that can run GB will be able to handle ICS fine.

But after reading what CM said about it long ago it seems the CPU isn't really the difference maker and what they say actually makes more sense after thinking about it.



> ... 256 MB RAM or more and also decent GPU since Hardware-accelerated 2D drawing might be needed, 2D acceleration depends on your phone GPU not the CPU...


http://www.androidmemo.com/2011/10/...-ics-minimum-hardware-requirements-256mb-ram/

Which makes sense given the hardware accel added in being one of the biggest changes.

With tablets it seems there is a little less manufacturer UI overlay being done when compared to handsets, least at first glance it looks that way to me. 
Actually now that i think about it, do any tablets out there have custom UI overlays besides HTC's? This of course ignoring the tablets that are not official google certified like the kindle fire and such.


----------



## ncxcstud

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yeah I mean google said they felt that "ALMOST all" devices that can run GB will be able to handle ICS fine.
> 
> But after reading what CM said about it long ago it seems the CPU isn't really the difference maker and what they say actually makes more sense after thinking about it.
> 
> http://www.androidmemo.com/2011/10/...-ics-minimum-hardware-requirements-256mb-ram/
> 
> Which makes sense given the hardware accel added in being one of the biggest changes.
> 
> With tablets it seems there is a little less manufacturer UI overlay being done when compared to handsets, least at first glance it looks that way to me.
> Actually now that i think about it, do any tablets out there have custom UI overlays besides HTC's? This of course ignoring the tablets that are not official google certified like the kindle fire and such.


I believe the Galaxy Tabs have a custom UI called TouchWhiz, but it isn't 'much' different from the vanilla OS.


----------



## FHSPSU67

Got my Prime today and it's free of all known issues, except I had to walk outside for GPS to lock within seconds


----------



## trdrjeff

I got Android 4 (ICS via CM9) running on the my Touchpad over the weekend. It is a nice upgrade to the user interface. Still a little buggy, Alpha 0 release, but for the $150 I paid for 10" Tablet with 32GB it keeps getting better and better


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

FHSPSU67 said:


> Got my Prime today and it's free of all known issues, except I had to walk outside for GPS to lock within seconds


Just dont send it to the Texas Repair facility if you ever need a fix. Truely shocked after reading this guys story and hearing its happened to others with Asus tablets too.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1461570

And in case you can't see the images i attached them here along with the guys first post there.



> I had bought 1 of the first transformer Primes that was released, it came from gamestop. The wifi was very weak on it so I started looking around and found this was a problem on some of them. After I had it a week I called Asus repair and they said they could fix it if I sent it in and would take 7 working days. I called back the next day and got an RMA, backed up data, charged prime fully and placed it in its original box. Took it to post office, insured it and sent it to texas repair address. It disapeared for a few days so I traced it and had been recieved on a fri. at about 1:30 PM by the faclity and signed for. The folowing tues it finally made it on web with a checked in and in repair code. I was happy. Then it moved to the waiting on repair code and sat there from wed to the following thursday a week later. I called and asked if I could get it back if they was not going to fix it as I would live with the weak wifi rather than be with out the tablet. That afternoon it changed status to CID\OOW. !!?? Friday I called back and asked what that meant, and was told it was customer induced damage and was waiting for me to answer the email they supposedly sent. I said no email and was getting very nervous.
> Monday I finally get an email in afternoon with 2 Pictures of a smashed back and screen of a prime. The color is same but it looks like it is 2 different machines, 1 with smash on back at camera, other could be smashed glass on right end and case frame smashed. It is ugly. They want me to send them credit card for 264 for parts, 65 for labor and some more for shipping. All for a simple wifi warranty repair and it cost me 14 to send it insured to them. I told them to send me a picture of the serial # showing and where I can also see the smashed glass also a picture of its orig box it was sent in. I can not believe they could have my prime arrive in a smashed box and hold it for 2 1/2 weeks before letting me know as insurance would have taken care of it. The pictures look like they had it out of box and it fell and hit a table edge or something. Maybe it is a damaged prime they use for multiple claims? I will go to post office tomorrow or wed. and turn it in but there are some really stinky fish floating around this.
> I esculated it on the web but am in the process of trying to find numbers to talk to a real Asus supervisor or Rep. not the robots in the Carribbean call in center that answer the phone. I will not lay down easy on this one!


----------



## FHSPSU67

I saw that too. Mines been just about perfect so far and lighter and easie to hold than the original transformer I gave to my wife now. Thanks for the heads-up
Also other users have been very happy with the Texas service center and I believe the conclusion (in the above case) was that it was damaged in shipment.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

FHSPSU67 said:


> I saw that too. Mines been just about perfect so far and lighter and easie to hold than the original transformer I gave to my wife now. Thanks for the heads-up
> Also other users have been very happy with the Texas service center and I believe the conclusion (in the above case) was that it was damaged in shipment.


Yeah thats what they told him but that is almost physically impossible given the size of the dent in the frame on the edge. 
To cause that damage there it would require someone literally slamming it against a small metal rod and be done so outside of the original packaging it was shipped in too.

He's still waiting to hear back from them and have them provide a photo showing the packaging damaged(since they claim it came like that) and also the serial # to prove its his.

My bet is that its not his tablet at all and they got mixed up somehow.


----------



## HDJulie

trdrjeff said:


> I got Android 4 (ICS via CM9) running on the my Touchpad over the weekend. It is a nice upgrade to the user interface. Still a little buggy, Alpha 0 release, but for the $150 I paid for 10" Tablet with 32GB it keeps getting better and better


Is there a link to instructions for how to put this on the Touchpad? I've done the CM9 install up to Alpha 3.5 I think it was.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

HDJulie said:


> Is there a link to instructions for how to put this on the Touchpad? I've done the CM9 install up to Alpha 3.5 I think it was.


thought the 3.5 alpha's were CM7. CM9 is ICS based and still has some bugs in it like no hardware acceleration, camera, netflix and other video is messed up on it too evidently currently.

here some links for you though.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1452625

http://rootzwiki.com/topic/15509-releasealpha05-cyanogenmod-9-touchpad/


----------



## HDJulie

Yes, you are correct -- it is CM7. Sorry & thanks for the links!


----------



## Rich

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Yeah thats what they told him but that is almost physically impossible given the size of the dent in the frame on the edge.
> To cause that damage there it would require someone literally slamming it against a small metal rod and be done so outside of the original packaging it was shipped in too.
> 
> He's still waiting to hear back from them and have them provide a photo showing the packaging damaged(since they claim it came like that) and also the serial # to prove its his.
> 
> My bet is that its not his tablet at all and they got mixed up somehow.


Does he say why he didn't return it to Game Stop? I would have done that and assumed that the next one would have good Wi-Fi.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Anyone know what the Fastest Way To Get A 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime Tablet (Champagne) is???

Mine is not supposed to delivered until March 15th.

Bah Humbug. :nono2:


----------



## Steve

This guy claims to have 2 for sale, with matching champagne keyboard docking stations on eBay. "Buy it now" is $960, but you can always "Make an Offer".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-Transf...mDock-USA-rare-64-GB-/130635455520#vi-content

He's got 100% positive feedback for 72 transactions, so may be legit.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> This guy has 2 with matching champagne keyboard docking stations on eBay. "Buy it now" is $960, but you can always "Make an Offer".
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-Transf...mDock-USA-rare-64-GB-/130635455520#vi-content


So I can Buy It Now meaning 1 TF201 (Champagne) with the Dock for $960. This means just ONE Tablet and NOT TWO. I guess the 2 Means he has 2 Available.


----------



## Steve

Richierich said:


> So I can Buy It Now meaning 1 TF201 (Champagne) with the Dock for $960. This means just ONE Tablet and NOT TWO. I guess the 2 Means he has 2 Available.


Yup.


----------



## Richierich

Well, I just bought my 64 GB Champagne Asus Transformer Prime Tablet plus Champagne Dock and I will have it by Monday, Jan. 30, 2012. YAWHOO!!! :hurah:

And yes I did pay a Premium Price for it but I Want It Now!!! :lol:


----------



## Steve

Richierich said:


> Well, I just bought my 64 GB Champagne Asus Transformer Prime Tablet plus Champagne Dock and I will have it by Monday, Jan. 30, 2012.


Use it in good health! :up:


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Well, I just bought my 64 GB Champagne Asus Transformer Prime Tablet plus Champagne Dock and I will have it by Monday, Jan. 30, 2012. YAWHOO!!! :hurah:
> 
> And yes I did pay a Premium Price for it but I Want It Now!!! :lol:


Sure hope you get it. I've got a "trust" problem with eBay.

Rich


----------



## zx10guy

Richierich said:


> Well, I just bought my 64 GB Champagne Asus Transformer Prime Tablet plus Champagne Dock and I will have it by Monday, Jan. 30, 2012. YAWHOO!!! :hurah:
> 
> And yes I did pay a Premium Price for it but I Want It Now!!! :lol:


Why would you pay $960 for that when you can get this for only $40 more with far superior specs?

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...goryID.44066900/categoryID.54536100/list.true


----------



## Richierich

The Seller has shipped my Asus to me and gave me the Tracking Number so I am Good To Go!!!


----------



## Richierich

zx10guy said:


> Why would you pay $960 for that when you can get this for only $40 more with far superior specs?
> 
> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...goryID.44066900/categoryID.54536100/list.true


Because I want a Champagne Gold 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime Tablet with Docking Station with 18 Hours of Battery Power, USB Port, SD Card Slot, HDMI Out and Great Screen Resolution and I have the money and don't want to wait until March to get it so I Bit the Bullet.

It's also smaller and lighter and thinner.


----------



## Richierich

Well, I just Received the Champagne Gold 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime Tablet and I am Fully Charging it per Instructions from HDTVFAN0001 before I use it.

Can't believe I have it but I am really Happy about having it for it's Size, Screen Resolution, Battery Life, HDMI Out, USB Port, SD Card Port, etc. plus it's Light Weight.

Wow, even though I Paid a Premium to get it but I am Happy that I have it now and not in March. :hurah: :hurah: :hurah:


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

On a side note here, I went back home today to help plan a reunion for my high school class and decided to stop by the parents place for a bit. They ended up getting me to set up their new iPad....

let me just say i dislike that OS even more after this experience. I get that they are trying to make the OS much easier and simplier for people to get it done but what i walked into there was a complete disaster. lol
Ended up having to just reset the device and start from scratch. haha 

Even after getting the thing set up and messing around with it for a little bit i was still left wanting much much more as the user customization just wasn't there for me to be honest...

now that i think about it i totally forgot to download the DIRECTV app lol. there thats the big advantage ill give it, along with i guess making it easy to set up syncing with the cloud and ability to restore the complete OS from there if something goes wrong. 

I just missed widgets and having all apps in a pull down instead of having them on the pages or in folders....


----------



## Richierich

Yes, Sarge, The IPAD is for people who are Not Technically Inclined or Savvy and the Rest is for us who are Technically Inclined and Savvy and want Customization and Not just Dictated to by Mr. Jobs and His Envision of How I Want To Use My PC!!!


----------



## Draconis

Richierich said:


> Well, I just Received the Champagne Gold 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime Tablet and I am Fully Charging it per Instructions from HDTVFAN0001 before I use it.
> 
> Can't believe I have it but I am really Happy about having it for it's Size, Screen Resolution, Battery Life, HDMI Out, USB Port, SD Card Port, etc. plus it's Light Weight.
> 
> Wow, even though I Paid a Premium to get it but I am Happy that I have it now and not in March. :hurah: :hurah: :hurah:


I'm glad to hear that you like it so much, it's making me quiver in anticipation for when mine arrives. (I won the contest at the NVIDIA booth).


----------



## Steve

Richierich said:


> Yes, Sarge, The IPAD is for people who are Not Technically Inclined or Savvy [...]


Definitely true.

That said, some of the most technical people I know chose iPads as well, so go figure!


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Draconis said:


> I'm glad to hear that you like it so much, it's making me quiver in anticipation for when mine arrives. (I won the contest at the NVIDIA booth).


LUCKY!!


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> Definitely true.
> 
> That said, some of the most technical people I know chose iPads as well, so go figure!


I Am Not An Apple Basher so whatever suits you is the Way You Should Go!!!

I just wanted a USB Port along with an SD Card Input Port and HDMI Out along with a Long Battery Life (my 14" PC has a battery life of about 3 hours) and I wanted a Light Weight Device and with 18 Hours of Battery Life by connecting the Docking Station I Am In Heaven!!! :hurah:


----------



## Steve

Richierich said:


> I Am Not An Apple Basher so whatever suits you is the Way You Should Go!!!


Wasn't saying you were, Rich! Just pointing out deciding which way to go is not quite a black and white decision.


----------



## Richierich

Draconis said:


> I'm glad to hear that you like it so much, it's making me quiver in anticipation for when mine arrives. (I won the contest at the NVIDIA booth).


Well, as you Remember I didn't have my Droid with me so I couldn't Register and you tried to get me Registered but we didn't have time so I just have to do the Tried & True Method of Producing a lot of Green Cash and by Golly it Worked!!! :lol:


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Richierich said:


> Well, as you Remember I didn't have my Droid with me so I couldn't Register and you tried to get me Registered but we didn't have time so I just have to do the Tried & True Method of Producing a lot of Green Cash and by Golly it Worked!!! :lol:


haha which is why you got yours first. lol

money talks. lol haha


----------



## Draconis

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> haha which is why you got yours first. lol
> 
> money talks. lol haha


Yep :lol:


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> Wasn't saying you were, Rich! Just pointing out deciding which way to go is not quite a black and white decision.


EXACTLY!!!

As you were the One Who Turned Me On To This Sale!!!

Even though I Paid a Dear Price I Am Happy With The Purchase and It Will Be Fun To Include It Into My Stable Of Devices


----------



## Richierich

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> haha which is why you got yours first. lol
> 
> money talks. lol haha


Well, I can't take it with me when I Die and Go To Heaven so I try to Enjoy Life and Help Others Who Are Less Fortunate Than Me So They Can See The Path!!!


----------



## The Merg

"Richierich" said:


> Yes, Sarge, The IPAD is for people who are Not Technically Inclined or Savvy and the Rest is for us who are Technically Inclined and Savvy and want Customization and Not just Dictated to by Mr. Jobs and His Envision of How I Want To Use My PC!!!


Got disagree with you there. I have an iPhone and an iPad and consider myself very technically inclined. While Android is an impressive OS and there is the capability of more customization, it doesn't do easily what I need. I use Outlook for my calendar and contacts. There is no simple way to sync Outlook with Android if you don't want to use the Google Cloud. Plus, even with using the Google Cloud, syncing with Outlook can be a pain.

With the iPhone and iPad, it syncs with no additional software (save for iTunes, which I already have and use). While I wouldn't mind having a little more ability to customize some things, I can live with a few shortcomings. Plus, the fact that I can carry around one device for all my needs, to include my music, which can be easily docked in my car with the iPod hookup is extremely convenient.

- Merg


----------



## Richierich

Again I was using a Generalization and applying it to Specifics such as Technical People who still like the Apple Products and want an IPAD2 or an IPHONE.

But In General Steve Jobs even stated as such that it was intended for people who weren't Technically Savvy or didn't care about being Technical but just wanted a PC or Tablet or Phone that works easily without them having to figure out a lot of technical stuff and Apple Products do that Very Nicely.

However, their Proprietary Software makes Customization very difficult if not impossible.

I for one didn't want to learn all I have learned about Networking but was forced to do so to get MRV working on my LAN Network.

And going to DECA even made it Better and More Reliable!!!


----------



## Sixto

Coke vs Pepsi, DirecTV vs Dish, Democrat vs Republican ... people prefer what they prefer, debates can be presented either way, and it's best to just recognize that it is what it is and we can all live comfortably. 

Within the 90 days in Q4:

15.43M iPads
37.04M iPhones
5.2M Macs
15.4M iPods
1.4M Apple TVs
$1.2B iTunes purchases
A growing business for iOS and Mac, single iOS platform, from a single manufacturer, with easy yearly upgrades, and 550,000 Apps ... that's all I care about ... and it helps that DirecTV develops on iOS first.

And there's probably also great numbers when you add up the multiple Android platforms and manufacturers.

It's nice to be in 2012 with choice.


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Definitely true.
> 
> That said, some of the most technical people I know chose iPads as well, so go figure!


My wife says the interest in iPads at work is declining and the interest in Apple's Air Book laptops (is that the right name?) is rising.

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> My wife says the interest in iPads at work is declining and the interest in Apple's Air Book laptops (is that the right name?) is rising.


Sounds like keyboards may be important to what they're using them for?


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Sounds like keyboards may be important to what they're using them for?


I think so. You've got a whole generation of folks that grew up with computer keyboards (me included) and not having one or buying a tiny blue tooth keyboard (which I almost did, I really hated typing on the screen) and it's gotta be hard to not have a keyboard in an office environment.

I kinda wonder how Fred would have felt about his Asus if it didn't have the keyboard. That's a point of divergence from all the other tablets. Just an opinion based on my experiences with the iPad. And the Androids I tried. I still think I liked the Xoom best, but bought it at the wrong time. Very few apps when I bought it.

Rich


----------



## RasputinAXP

The Merg said:


> I use Outlook for my calendar and contacts. There is no simple way to sync Outlook with Android if you don't want to use the Google Cloud. Plus, even with using the Google Cloud, syncing with Outlook can be a pain.


Sure you can. Android supports Activesync. If you mean you're using Outlook as a standalone email client, then you just set your email up on the phone the same as you set it up on Outlook via IMAP.


----------



## HDJulie

I've been messing around with Android on my Touchpad. At first, I really liked that I could customize the screens. Now, I get frustrated trying to figure out how to do things. And I also consider myself technologically advanced. I have seemed to lose a lot of my patience as I get older, however .


----------



## RasputinAXP

What are you trying to do that gets you frustrated?


----------



## FHSPSU67

Rich said:


> I kinda wonder how Fred would have felt about his Asus if it didn't have the keyboard. That's a point of divergence from all the other tablets. Just an opinion based on my experiences with the iPad. And the Androids I tried. I still think I liked the Xoom best, but bought it at the wrong time. Very few apps when I bought it.
> Rich


Strangely I found a physical keyboard indispensable when first using my original transformer, but not so much with my Prime. Probably because I didn't have my Prime dock until 2 weeks after getting my Prime and that was enough time to get used to the virtual keyboard.


----------



## Steve

FHSPSU67 said:


> Strangely I found a physical keyboard indispensable when first using my original transformer, but not so much with my Prime. Probably because I didn't have my Prime dock until 2 weeks after getting my Prime and that was enough time to get used to the virtual keyboard.


It's funny. I miss the mouse more than the physical keyboard when using the virtual keyboard. I have no problem typing on it, and I can do so rather quickly. It's selecting, cutting and pasting that are a lot easier for me with a mouse than my fingers.

I was watching my niece the other day, cutting and pasting on her iPhone with its tiny virtual keyboard, and she was zipping along effortlessly. And she doesn't have small hands, either. She was a starter on her college basketball team! I guess I just need more practice.


----------



## Richierich

Well, I am Downloading Ice Cream Sandwich OS on my New Asus Transformer Prime Tablet right now as I type this Post.

YAAHOO!!!!


----------



## Drew2k

Richierich said:


> Well, I am Downloading Ice Cream Sandwich OS on my New Asus Transformer Prime Tablet right now as I type this Post.
> 
> YAAHOO!!!!


And here I sit with the first Google tablet to have Honeycomb, the Motorola Xoom, purchased the first week it was available, and it's supposed to be the "Google Experience" tablet yet ... still no ICS. :nono2:


----------



## Draconis

Odd, I already have ICS on my WiFi Xoom. The tablet downloaded it last week.


----------



## Richierich

This Quad Core Processor on this Asus Transformer Prime is So Fast that it is Scarey!!!

Wow, so Glad I got it even though I had to pay a Premium to get it but it is Great!!!

Definitely a Different Experience using the Touch Screen and it will take a while to get used to it.


----------



## HDJulie

"RasputinAXP" said:


> What are you trying to do that gets you frustrated?


I was trying to figure out how to get rid of the empty screens. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to get rid of an app from the home screen . I also haven't seen yet how to keep it from automatically checking my mail. I want to do that manually. I haven't spent that much time on it yet, though.


----------



## Drew2k

Draconis said:


> Odd, I already have ICS on my WiFi Xoom. The tablet downloaded it last week.


I have the 3G/LTE Verizon edition of the Xoom, the first one released. This is why it's painful that it's delayed - this is supposed to be the reference tablet Google uses for Honeycomb and ICS, but there's jut no love for us early Honeycomb adopters...


----------



## Draconis

I'm guessing that Verizon is delaying the launch as they add/test their own special goodies. It should come out (sooner or later).


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Richierich" said:


> This Quad Core Processor on this Asus Transformer Prime is So Fast that it is Scarey!!!
> 
> Wow, so Glad I got it even though I had to pay a Premium to get it but it is Great!!!
> 
> Definitely a Different Experience using the Touch Screen and it will take a while to get used to it.


Herd only good things about ICS on that puppy too...


----------



## The Merg

"RasputinAXP" said:


> Sure you can. Android supports Activesync. If you mean you're using Outlook as a standalone email client, then you just set your email up on the phone the same as you set it up on Outlook via IMAP.


I use Outlook as a standalone client. Unfortunately, I am set up for POP and don't have the ability to use IMAP. With a POP setup, it is not easy.

- Merg


----------



## bobukcat

Drew2k said:


> I have the 3G/LTE Verizon edition of the Xoom, the first one released. This is why it's painful that it's delayed - this is supposed to be the reference tablet Google uses for Honeycomb and ICS, but there's jut no love for us early Honeycomb adopters...


I'm in the same boat, I've never activated it but did send it in for the LTE upgrade. I'm sure the delay is in testing the s/w on the device on VZW's network. I work for a hardware manufacturer (non-consumer) that sells products on their and other networks and it always takes longer to get certified on VZW than any of the others.

I finally ran out of patience and installed Pete Alfonso's ICS ROM on it last week. It's a little laggy at times and rooting breaks things like being able to watch Ultraviolet streaming on it but I don't really use if for that so it's not a big loss. I figure when the official release is available I'll unroot it and let it install the approved build. In the end I wish I would have waited a little longer and gotten the WiFi only version of it, then again I got such a good deal on this one and had it months before the non-WAN version shipped.


----------



## RasputinAXP

The Merg said:


> I use Outlook as a standalone client. Unfortunately, I am set up for POP and don't have the ability to use IMAP. With a POP setup, it is not easy.
> 
> - Merg


That stinks. Generally when I have users in that situation I make it behave as IMAP as possible and leave all messages on the server unless deleted by the client.


----------



## Steve

This 5.25" device looks like it would be a cool replacement for my 3.5" iPod, if Samsung would come out with a wifi-only version!


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Steve" said:


> This 5.25" device looks like it would be a cool replacement for my 3.5" iPod, if Samsung would come out with a wifi-only version!


Think they make a 5in galaxy player too. Dunno any specifics on it but by sound of the name it could be what ur looking for.

Though why have an ipod anymore less u want one for running and then you'd likely not want one with bigger screen, no? Otherwise ur tablet n phone should have all ur music too right?


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Think they make a 5in galaxy player too. Dunno any specifics on it but by sound of the name it could be what ur looking for.
> 
> Though why have an ipod anymore less u want one for running and then you'd likely not want one with bigger screen, no? Otherwise ur tablet n phone should have all ur music too right?


I don't use a smartphone. I'm home, retired... just a pay per minute plan on my cell. The iPod with wifi works for me 95% of the places I use it.

That Sammy 5" has audio playback quality issues, and I'm a stickler for audio.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Steve" said:


> I don't use a smartphone. I'm home, retired... just a pay per minute plan on my cell. The iPod with wifi works for me 95% of the places I use it.
> 
> That Sammy 5" has audio playback quality issues, and I'm a stickler for audio.


Ahh gotcha. Forgot u didn't have a smartphone. That makes a ton of sense now.


----------



## The Merg

RasputinAXP said:


> That stinks. Generally when I have users in that situation I make it behave as IMAP as possible and leave all messages on the server unless deleted by the client.


Yup. I have hosting with GoDaddy and to have IMAP for mail is too much for me to justify it.

Also, I also use the calendar in Outlook extensively and use categories, which the Google Cloud does not handle as I understand it.

- Merg


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"The Merg" said:


> Yup. I have hosting with GoDaddy and to have IMAP for mail is too much for me to justify it.
> 
> Also, I also use the calendar in Outlook extensively and use categories, which the Google Cloud does not handle as I understand it.
> 
> - Merg


Sign up for gmail and move over to the bright side.


----------



## RasputinAXP

Using Godaddy for hosting is the first problem. :/


----------



## michaelancaster

Drew2k said:


> And here I sit with the first Google tablet to have Honeycomb, the Motorola Xoom, purchased the first week it was available, and it's supposed to be the "Google Experience" tablet yet ... still no ICS. :nono2:


My Xoom automatically updated to ics on January 19th and I have enjoyed ever since.


----------



## RasputinAXP

The wifi Xooms (Wingray build) were updated. 3G Xooms (Stingray) were not.


----------



## Drew2k

michaelancaster said:


> My Xoom automatically updated to ics on January 19th and I have enjoyed ever since.


I presume you have the WiFi-only Xoom then... or you are in a test program? I have a stock Verizon 3G Xoom, I'm not in any program, and I've not heard of other 3G Xooms getting auto updates - it's only the WiFi models. (I posted this earlier.)


----------



## ncxcstud

So pissed at myself.

My wife and I bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 as a 'tester' to see if we'd like/use a tablet. We do, and we both really enjoy the portability of the tablet.

From the beginning we've had the intention of switching it out for an Asus Transformer Prime. We were able to play with an ATP this weekend at Best Buy, that thing (with ICS) is awesome, so quick and fluid. We were super excited to be able to trade in our Galaxy Tab for it.

Then, I did a once over on the Tab, the dang thing has a nick in the top left corner!!! What the crap! Its why we bought a case for this dang thing, to prevent this sort of cosmetic damage. Bah, now I'm not sure if we can even trade it in (though it is only cosmetic, very tiny, and the tablet works perfectly fine). 

I really want that Transformer Prime too 

Though, getting a new 'launcher' for the Tab really helped with my one gripe with it, the sluggishness it has swiping between screens and I now have folders, which we both love.

Bah, I may still try to trade it in though


----------



## Rich

FHSPSU67 said:


> Strangely I found a physical keyboard indispensable when first using my original transformer, but not so much with my Prime. Probably because I didn't have my Prime dock until 2 weeks after getting my Prime and that was enough time to get used to the virtual keyboard.


I think the virtual keyboard and lack of mouse functions bothered me more than anything. But my son really uses the iPad, so I guess it was money well spent. Wonder why Apple never bothered with a docking station keyboard?

Rich


----------



## Steve

Rich said:


> I think the virtual keyboard and lack of mouse functions bothered me more than anything. But my son really uses the iPad, so I guess it was money well spent. Wonder why Apple never bothered with a docking station keyboard?


Apple offers a dock and a keyboard. Also, there are a lot of third-party Bluetooth keyboards that work with the iPad, like this one from Logitech/Zagg.

I assumed we'd need a keyboard when I first bought the iPad. I'm glad I didn't buy it on day one, tho. The virtual keyboard is fine. I just need to hone my cut and paste skills.


----------



## klang

We bought the Apple keyboard/dock when we got my wife her iPad 1. I think she took it along on one trip. It's been sitting in a cabinet in our office unused for well over a year now.


----------



## billsharpe

RasputinAXP said:


> Using Godaddy for hosting is the first problem. :/


Why is that?

I've been using GoDaddy for over six months to host a hobby site and am completely satisfied both from a technical and cost basis.


----------



## billsharpe

klang said:


> We bought the Apple keyboard/dock when we got my wife her iPad 1. I think she took it along on one trip. It's been sitting in a cabinet in our office unused for well over a year now.


That's good to know. We won't buy one for my wife's iPad.

I've been struggling with the virtual keyboard on my iPod Touch. It works best in landscape mode, but I've also been using voice entries for Google search and composing e-mails.


----------



## RasputinAXP

billsharpe said:


> Why is that?
> 
> I've been using GoDaddy for over six months to host a hobby site and am completely satisfied both from a technical and cost basis.


Virtually everything on GoDaddy is a value-added bump. Dreamhost (for one) offers far more than Godaddy for better pricing, plus shell access.


----------



## The Merg

billsharpe said:


> Why is that?
> 
> I've been using GoDaddy for over six months to host a hobby site and am completely satisfied both from a technical and cost basis.





RasputinAXP said:


> Virtually everything on GoDaddy is a value-added bump. Dreamhost (for one) offers far more than Godaddy for better pricing, plus shell access.


I have 4 domains, host 3 sites, and have 2 main e-mail accounts (with many, many forwards) with GoDaddy. With the space I am allocated, I will never run out of space, will never come close to the data transfer limit, and I pay $5/month for the hosting. You can't really do much better than that.

While shell access would be nice, I think I might have needed it once and I was able to work around it. As for IMAP, it would cost me $3/month extra for it for each of the main e-mail accounts I use. I just can't justify that right now.

- Merg


----------



## spartanstew

OK Guys, my sister-in-law told me she wants to buy a Nook Tablet.

I haven't really been following this thread, but I told here there were better options.

What are the better options (or soon to be better options)? Why are they better?

Isn't the Nook Tablet hamstrung in some ways?


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> OK Guys, my sister-in-law told me she wants to buy a Nook Tablet.
> 
> I haven't really been following this thread, but I told here there were better options.
> 
> What are the better options (or soon to be better options)? Why are they better?
> 
> Isn't the Nook Tablet hamstrung in some ways?


Only hamstrung if you need more than 1 GB user storage for non-B&N purchased content (15gb storage). And if you do, you can buy a micro SD card. Otherwise, it actually edged out the Fire in this review.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Steve" said:


> Only hamstrung if you need more than 1 GB user storage for non-B&N purchased content (15gb storage). And if you do, you can buy a micro SD card. Otherwise, it actually edged out the Fire in this review.


Wow they really seem to slam the kindle fire in that review when you read it.

My mother-in-law has a nook color and my wife has the kindle fire. Neither device are for me but they both like their device.

If she's getting it for price and books and such you can't go wrong really imho. If she's an Amazon prime member then maybe the fire is the choice but really a toss up.

Maybe compare the tablets markets and what each has? Like amazon has its own market app and doesn't use Google's. I don't know what the nook uses.


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> If she's getting it for price and books and such you can't go wrong really imho. If she's an Amazon prime member then maybe the fire is the choice but really a toss up.


Ya. If you buy into the Amazon ecosystem, the Fire is definitely the way to go. That said, I have to admit having everything I click on the device recorded on their servers, including my web browsing activity, is a bit of a scary prospect from a privacy standpoint. Just my .02.


----------



## olguy

I have a Xoom Wi-fi, Dell Streak 7 and a Nookcolor. The Nook tablet is just a souped up ereader. The app selection is very limited compared to the Android and Amazon app stores for Android. I have Netflix, Gmail and a couple of others on my Nook but Facebook is not in the B&N app store. If you want to make a Nook a full Android device you have to root them. I really enjoy my Nookcolor for it's primary purpose and keep it on my nightstand to read at night. I do have the Nook app on both tablets and frequently use the Xoom as a reader while listening to music in the family room, waiting in doctor's office, getting oil changes, etc. I also use the Streak occasionally as a reader outside my home.

If she basically wants a reader then the Nook will be great. If she wants a tablet that will work as a reader then there are several that have been mentioned in this thread. The new Asus sounds interesting but I've only had my Xoom since last May and haven't worn the shiney off yet. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

olguy said:


> The new Asus sounds interesting but I've only had my Xoom since last May and haven't worn the shiney off yet. :lol:


I just got my Asus Transformer Prime Tablet so I am just learning how to Navigate around and it is still Very Shiney because I am still a Virgin when it comes to this Amazing Tablet.

It is Fast as can be, almost instantaneous.


----------



## RasputinAXP

The Nook TABLET is fantastic for doing double duty as a tablet and ereader.

The Nook COLOR is merely solid at double duty. I have one and I put Cyanogen 7 on it for the wife to go full-tablet and it's working well but kind of buggy.


----------



## RasputinAXP

The Merg said:


> I have 4 domains, host 3 sites, and have 2 main e-mail accounts (with many, many forwards) with GoDaddy. With the space I am allocated, I will never run out of space, will never come close to the data transfer limit, and I pay $5/month for the hosting. You can't really do much better than that.
> 
> While shell access would be nice, I think I might have needed it once and I was able to work around it. As for IMAP, it would cost me $3/month extra for it for each of the main e-mail accounts I use. I just can't justify that right now.
> 
> - Merg


Dreamhost is $8.95 a month for unlimited everything: shell, domains, sites, bandwidth and email accounts and forwarding addresses, plus one free domain registration for life (or transfer). Godaddy really amazes me with the nickel and dime thing. $3 per month per address for IMAP? That's just silly.


----------



## HDJulie

Does Dreamhost have flexible spam filtering or is it a whitelist, blacklist, & some level (1 - 10 usually). Google Apps is free though I think you get only 5 mailboxes per domain.


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> Only hamstrung if you need more than 1 GB user storage for non-B&N purchased content (15gb storage). And if you do, you can buy a micro SD card. Otherwise, it actually edged out the Fire in this review.


Seems it's hamstrung in more ways than that:



olguy said:


> The Nook tablet is just a souped up ereader. The app selection is very limited compared to the Android and Amazon app stores for Android. I have Netflix, Gmail and a couple of others on my Nook but Facebook is not in the B&N app store. If you want to make a Nook a full Android device you have to root them.





olguy said:


> If she basically wants a reader then the Nook will be great. If she wants a tablet that will work as a reader then there are several that have been mentioned in this thread. The new Asus sounds interesting but I've only had my Xoom since last May and haven't worn the shiney off yet. :lol:


No, she wants a tablet with a budget of around $250.



RasputinAXP said:


> The Nook TABLET is fantastic for doing double duty as a tablet and ereader.


Fantastic? Even without full access to apps?

I did find some of the newer tablets mentioned in this thread and sent her links last night, but didn't peruse the whole thread and didn't know what else might be available.

She definitely wants a tablet.


----------



## olguy

spartanstew said:


> No, she wants a tablet with a budget of around $250.
> 
> She definitely wants a tablet.


Here's an interesting article dated 1/24/12 at PCWorld:

*Android 4.0 Tablets Coming for Under $250*


> Inexpensive tablets with screen sizes up to 10 inches and Google's new Android 4.0 OS will soon become available at prices ranging from US$100 to $250. The prices are a breakthrough for users looking to get Android 4.0, code-named Ice Cream Sandwich, on tablets, which have so far been equipped with Android 2.x or Android 3.x. Some of the sub-$250 tablets run on smartphone processors and may lack the processing power of Apple's iPad 2 or Asus' Eee Pad Transformer Prime. But with cameras, high-definition video capabilities and HDMI ports, these devices could provide good value to budget buyers.


The article then briefly describes several of the tablets.


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> Fantastic? Even without full access to apps?


I guess it depends on what apps she wants to run. There's a decent selection for the Nook Tablet here: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/NOOK-Apps/379003212/

Otherwise, if she wants full Google app store access, she might be better off waiting for the quad-core Asus EeePad Memo, slated to ship in Q2 for $250. I imagine it will be the "king" of the 7" Android tablets, at least for the foreseeable future.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...tablet-with-four-cores-at-magic-249-price.ars

*EDITED TO ADD:* You can apparently sideload Android apps to the Nook, _without _rooting it:

http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568172/nook-tablet-can-sideload-android-apps-no-root-required


----------



## olguy

Steve said:


> *EDITED TO ADD:* You can apparently sideload Android apps to the Nook, _without _rooting it:
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568172/nook-tablet-can-sideload-android-apps-no-root-required


But how many Nook users even know what an apk is let alone being able to find and side-load one? That is good news for those of us that can do it but I would venture we are in the minority of Nook users.

And even some of the apps that B&N charge for are free in the Android Market. As I said, I think a Nook is a great reader. Tablet, not so much.


----------



## spartanstew

olguy said:


> Here's an interesting article dated 1/24/12 at PCWorld:
> 
> *Android 4.0 Tablets Coming for Under $250*
> The article then briefly describes several of the tablets.





Steve said:


> I guess it depends on what apps she wants to run. There's a decent selection for the Nook Tablet here: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/NOOK-Apps/379003212/
> 
> Otherwise, if she wants full Google app store access, she might be better off waiting for the quad-core Asus EeePad Memo, slated to ship in Q2 for $250. I imagine it will be the "king" of the 7" Android tablets, at least for the foreseeable future.
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...tablet-with-four-cores-at-magic-249-price.ars
> 
> *EDITED TO ADD:* You can apparently sideload Android apps to the Nook, _without _rooting it:
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568172/nook-tablet-can-sideload-android-apps-no-root-required


Thank you both



olguy said:


> But how many Nook users even know what an apk is let alone being able to find and side-load one? That is good news for those of us that can do it but I would venture we are in the minority of Nook users.
> 
> And even some of the apps that B&N charge for are free in the Android Market. As I said, I think a Nook is a great reader. Tablet, not so much.


Exactly. My SIL would never root or sideload anything (heck, I doubt I would)


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> Exactly. My SIL would never root or sideload anything (heck, I doubt I would)


If she's not technical, I was just looking through the B&N app selection. There are at least several hundred, if not more. I was surprised how many familiar titles there are to a lot of the iPad apps I use, including popular ones, like "Words with Friends". Some of them may cost a buck more than the Android marketplace, but she's probably only going to download a dozen or so, so probably not a big deal. And they're all certified to run on the Nook by B&N, so that's a plus that should prevent frustration.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook-apps/379002908


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> If she's not technical, I was just looking through the B&N app selection. There are at least several hundred, if not more. I was surprised how many familiar titles there are to a lot of the iPad apps I use, including popular ones, like "Words with Friends". Some of them may cost a buck more than the Android marketplace, but she's probably only going to download a dozen or so, so probably not a big deal. And they're all certified to run on the Nook by B&N, so that's a plus that should prevent frustration.
> 
> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook-apps/379002908


I'm sure the vast majority of apps she'd ever need are there, but all it takes is one that's missing for her (and me, actually) to feel she's wasted $250. Especially if that one is facebook, as she uses that all the time.



olguy said:


> The app selection is very limited compared to the Android and Amazon app stores for Android. I have Netflix, Gmail and a couple of others on my Nook but Facebook is not in the B&N app store.


I think it's best she wait until some of these others come to fruition. I'll start keeping a better eye on this thread.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"spartanstew" said:


> I'm sure the vast majority of apps she'd ever need are there, but all it takes is one that's missing for her (and me, actually) to feel she's wasted $250. Especially if that one is facebook, as she uses that all the time.
> 
> I think it's best she wait until some of these others come to fruition. I'll start keeping a better eye on this thread.


Best bet is to wait for the cheaper android tablets to hit the market then imho. As that way you can guarantee there won't be any apps shell be missing less its an iOS variety.

I'd wait and get the Asus mentioned earlier btw.


----------



## spartanstew

I'm liking that advice slaughter.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"spartanstew" said:


> I'm liking that advice slaughter.


Yeah if your watching $ being spent on it and you want most access possible to all apps then you have to go the route of that Asus model mentioned. The other tablets in that price range are either very out dated now or are severely handicapped. Like my wifes kindle has a Facebook app BUT all it is in reality is a freaking shortcut to the mobile Facebook site(m.Facebook.com). LOL.

That's why I say if apps are any concern in this you have to get an actual full Google tablet.


----------



## RasputinAXP

HDJulie said:


> Does Dreamhost have flexible spam filtering or is it a whitelist, blacklist, & some level (1 - 10 usually). Google Apps is free though I think you get only 5 mailboxes per domain.


They use SpamAssassin. http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Junk_Mail


----------



## RasputinAXP

In the end, the best advice is always to wait. The best device for you is usually just around the corner, until next month. Then the best device is the one after that.


----------



## The Merg

RasputinAXP said:


> Dreamhost is $8.95 a month for unlimited everything: shell, domains, sites, bandwidth and email accounts and forwarding addresses, plus one free domain registration for life (or transfer). Godaddy really amazes me with the nickel and dime thing. $3 per month per address for IMAP? That's just silly.


I just looked at their site. Looks nice. I like how Private Registration for domains is included. That's normally extra no matter who you go with. My hosting is paid through June 2013, so I'll need to wait a while before I switch, if I decide to do that.

- Merg


----------



## The Merg

RasputinAXP said:


> Dreamhost is $8.95 a month for unlimited everything: shell, domains, sites, bandwidth and email accounts and forwarding addresses, plus one free domain registration for life (or transfer). Godaddy really amazes me with the nickel and dime thing. $3 per month per address for IMAP? That's just silly.


Well, I called up and talked to GoDaddy and I was a little wrong it how the e-mail upgrade works. It is $3/month, but that is for 10 e-mail addresses within your account. It does not matter what domain as long as the domain is part of your account. I really only use two e-mail accounts (everything else is a forward), although I also had 4 small e-mail accounts that I use for junk and some other stuff.

I decided do give it a go for a year, so for $36 I now have unlimited storage and IMAP for all 6 of those accounts. If I decide that I need the accounts those junk e-mail ones are taking up, I can then just move them back to the old e-mail plan they were under. So, for all purposes, I am paying about the same as Dreamhost would be for my hosting.

I figure when this one year plan is up, I can go month-to-month (same monthly cost) until my hosting plan is up and then I can decide if I'll stay with GoDaddy or move to Dreamhost.

- Merg


----------



## RasputinAXP

Sounds like a plan to me.


----------



## The Merg

RasputinAXP said:


> Sounds like a plan to me.


And I can't believe it took me this long to to IMAP. I love how everything is synced between all devices instantaneously. I was told that if I created a folder on one device, I need to create it on the others, but I've found that they are there automatically. Very similar to using Exchange.

I actually moved all my saved e-mails from my desktop into the appropriate IMAP accounts and now I have access to all my old e-mails no matter where I am. Just awesome.

Thanks for the push Rasputin! 

- Merg


----------



## RasputinAXP

Hah, anytime. IMAP is so superior to POP it's the only thing we allow anymore. Eliminates (most) accidental 'oops i deleted my inbox' mails.


----------



## yosoyellobo

Is there any difference watching live tv on a Ipad app and watching it live on a regular tv or is there any delay. It would be nice for us hard of hearing to watch late at night and not bother anybody.


----------



## The Merg

RasputinAXP said:


> Hah, anytime. IMAP is so superior to POP it's the only thing we allow anymore. Eliminates (most) accidental 'oops i deleted my inbox' mails.


I am noticing a little lag with using the IMAP boxes though when in Outlook. I don't seem to have that issue on my iPhone and iPad. Also, sometimes it shows a folder empty and then a few seconds later it will populate. Other than that, I am liking it.

- Merg


----------



## RasputinAXP

Depending on the size of your mailbox, it may be because Outlook is trying to refresh its local cache. Paradoxically if you turn off "offline folder settings" you may actually get better throughput.

Tools --> Options --> Mail Setup --> Email Accounts --> Change --> More Settings --> Advanced --> Offline Folder File Settings


----------



## The Merg

Hmmm.. I don't have that option. On my Advanced tab, all I have is Server Port Numbers, Server Timeouts, and Folders (which has an entry for Root Folder Path).

Using Outlook 2010.

- Merg


----------



## Marlin Guy

Toshiba make a pretty tough tablet.
This one was run over by a car.
It's ugly, the back is missing, but it still works - camera, sound, and all.

http://i.imgur.com/Z1v4Oh.jpg


----------



## RasputinAXP

Weird, I just noticed it's not there in 2010. No idea, then.


----------



## Steve

If this report is true, along with the imminent release of the iPad 3 and rumors the iPad 2 will drop in price, seems to me 2012 will be another year when "conventional" Android tablet manufacturers will struggle to grow tablet market share among average consumers. One analyst is estimating Amazon will sell 14.9 million Kindle Fires (or its successors) this year, and Apple will likely sell 2-3 times that many iPads.

And unless corporate America starts to adopt Android tablets, which hasn't happened so far, I expect the iPad will continue to make major inroads into that market, at least until Microsoft gets off the dime and finally gets something out the door. Just my .02.

No matter, sales and maneuvering over the next 10 months should be fun to watch.


----------



## Richierich

Well, I am Very Happy with my Asus Transformer Prime Tablet (64 GB) and it has been very well received and very hard to get and once it fully gets out there in the Market Place it will be interesting to see what the Sales will be.

I like having a USB Connection, a Micro SD Card (32 Gig) and HDMI along with Great Screen Resolution and the next Version will be even better. Having 18 hours of Battery Life when connected to the Docking Station is also Great as short Battery Life is my Biggest Pet Peeve with my Dell 14: Laptop.


----------



## Steve

I guess it will depend on what the total 2012 tablet market will be. It's looking now like Apple and Amazon will be good for 45 to 60 million tablets in 2012. Since Microsoft's not in the game yet, the rest will go to Honeycomb/ICS models. Last year, about 63 million tablets sold in total, including the Fire and the HP tablet.


----------



## Sixto

I'm all ready to pre-order an iPad3, and eBay the iPad2 in early March right at announce. 

My iPad2 model is going for $500+ on eBay now. Certainly will drop but maybe not too bad. When I sold my iPad1 right at iPad2 announcement it was still selling high, we'll see ...

And I learned my lesson with the iPad2 ... for any new Apple product ... I pre-order ... iPhone4S worked great ... never again do I wait for a store, it's too time consuming chasing availability and calling and driving and calling ... simple, click, done.


----------



## Richierich

Sixto said:


> My iPad2 model is going for $500+ on eBay now. Certainly will drop but maybe not too bad.


Good Luck getting that $500!!! Don't think that will happen with the supply that is out there. 

Especially when you can get a Faster 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime Tablet, larger screen with Better Resolution, USB, SD Card Port, HDMI Out, 18 hours of Battery Life with Dock, and the Tegra 3 Quad Core Processor along with Ice Cream Sandwich and Flash Support.

What's Not To Like??? :lol:


----------



## Sixto

Richierich said:


> Good Luck getting that $500!!! Don't think that will happen with the supply that is out there.
> 
> Especially when you can get a Faster Asus Transformer Prime Tablet, larger screen with better resolution, USB, SD Card, HDMI Out, 18 hours of Battery Life with Dock, and Ice Cream Sandwich along with Flash Support.
> 
> What's Not To Like??? :lol:


I'm sure the price will drop, but my exact iPad2 model has eBay sales closing right now.

I was shocked at what I got for my iPad1.

I don't much care about the $, as long as I get at least $300, need to keep getting the techie fix. I will always be on the latest iPhone and iPad until the Lord takes me.


----------



## Sixto

Richierich said:


> ... Especially when you can get a Faster Asus Transformer Prime Tablet, larger screen with better resolution, USB, SD Card, HDMI Out, 18 hours of Battery Life with Dock, and Ice Cream Sandwich along with Flash Support ...


And for me it's all about the Ecosystem. Me, wife, kids ... all iOS now, all iPhones, iPads, iMessage, Find My Friends, iTunes, Apple TV, every App known to man, all works great together.

And others have their Android as well. All good.


----------



## Richierich

Sixto said:


> And for me it's all about the Ecosystem. Me, wife, kids ... all iOS now, all iPhones, iPads, iMessage, Find My Friends, iTunes, Apple TV, all works great together.
> 
> And others have their Android as well. All good.


And that is All Well & Good!!!

At least we have Choices. It would be a Boring World if we all liked the same thing and those things would be very expensive without competition.


----------



## Sixto

March 7th. 

iPad3.

Maybe new Apple TV model as well.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Sixto said:


> March 7th.
> 
> iPad3.
> 
> Maybe new Apple TV model as well.


ehhhhh iWhat? lol


----------



## Groundhog45

Sixto said:


> March 7th.
> 
> iPad3.
> 
> Maybe new Apple TV model as well.


Any word on the iPhone 5? Is it still possibly in June?


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Groundhog45" said:


> Any word on the iPhone 5? Is it still possibly in June?


IPhone5? What's that? LOL

Anyway Apple looks to be doing what I thought they'd do and that's do improved display but only slightly improved dual core processor according to latest leak photos...

Just doesn't make sense for them to do both quad core and also screen on same release. Also quad cores have not been out for long else where and in past they typically haven't been that early adapters of their models...

Never really got where the quad core iPad rumors came from bc they could easily do just dual core and screen this time and next update be quad core and sell a ton both times. That's what they do. Offer minor updates and get the ppl to jump on it...


----------



## olguy

B&N 8 gig nook Tablet for $199 and nook Color $169. Too bad you have to root 'em to make them true android.


----------



## spartanstew

The Nook Color can also be found refurbed for under $140 and probably under $125 in another month or so.


----------



## chevyguy559

After reading through this thread and doing countless hours of research online and at BestBuy, I decide I want to get a Transformer Prime before a trip this coming weekend and they are nowhere to be found


----------



## Richierich

I had to buy mine from Amazon.com and I had to wait 2 months to get mine but it definitely is worth it as this is a Great Tablet in every way.

You can get them Faster now Online than when I Prepaid for mine but you will have to wait a couple of weeks or more to get them as they have been trickling in but Production is Ramping Up and they are becoming more Plentiful.


----------



## TBlazer07

Sixto said:


> I'm all ready to pre-order an iPad3, and eBay the iPad2 in early March right at announce.
> 
> My iPad2 model is going for $500+ on eBay now. Certainly will drop but maybe not too bad. When I sold my iPad1 right at iPad2 announcement it was still selling high, we'll see ...
> 
> And I learned my lesson with the iPad2 ... for any new Apple product ... I pre-order ... iPhone4S worked great ... never again do I wait for a store, it's too time consuming chasing availability and calling and driving and calling ... simple, click, done.


There was no Pre-order for the iPad 2. You either had to take your chance and hit Apple.com the second it was up for sale online or do the "wait for store" thing. Probably will be the same for the 3.



Richierich said:


> Good Luck getting that $500!!! Don't think that will happen with the supply that is out there.


Just got $569 cash off C.L. for my iPad 2 16GB 3G. It sold in like 15 minutes. First time I ever used C.L. and probably the last. While it saved me about $50 between eBay, PayPal & Shipping fees I didn't like the "experience" at all. Don't forget, on eBay people pay $110 for a $100 gift card so anything goes. Used iPad 2's are still selling for MORE THAN what you can buy refurbs for directly from Apple with a 1yr warranty.

What will kill it is AFTER the "3" is released they will drop the prices on the 2.


----------



## Sixto

I may have to rethink my plan, maybe sell soon. I can live without the iPad for a couple of weeks I guess. We'll see ...


----------



## FHSPSU67

chevyguy559 said:


> After reading through this thread and doing countless hours of research online and at BestBuy, I decide I want to get a Transformer Prime before a trip this coming weekend and they are nowhere to be found


http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/tablets/asus/accessories/
for dock/keyboard and:
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/tablets/asus/transformerprime/
for the 32GB Prime


----------



## chevyguy559

Well I made sure to grab a couple lottery tickets because I guess this is my lucky day! The guy at Best Buy said to come in at noon today for the off chance that they got one in on the truck....well they had one left when I went in there around 1:30!! Its charging right now! Can't wait to play with it!!


----------



## Richierich

Well, Chevyguy, you are one Lucky Dude so Enjoy it as I am Completely Stoked at having my 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime and it Rocks My World!!!

What a Cool Device!!! 

Take a Look at this ASUS TRANSFORMER FORUM WEBSITE for all kinds of info on Problems, Downloads, Apps, Tips & Tricks, MicroSDHC Card Info, etc.

http://www.transformerforums.com/

ENJOY!!!


----------



## FHSPSU67

ICS (Ice Cream Sandwich) is now available for the ASUS transformer.
Grab it


----------



## Richierich

FHSPSU67 said:


> ICS (Ice Cream Sandwich) is now available for the ASUS transformer.
> Grab it


I've had it for awhile and I just Updated it last week.

Works like a Champ and it is Smooth!!!


----------



## FHSPSU67

Richierich said:


> I've had it for awhile and I just Updated it last week.
> 
> Works like a Champ and it is Smooth!!!


Pretty sure you have the Prime which I also have. I gave my original tf to ransformer my wife and updated that this morning. We love, that's love them both


----------



## Rich

*This* from CNet.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

FHSPSU67 said:


> Pretty sure you have the Prime which I also have.)


Yes, I have a 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime Tablet in Champayne with the Fantastic Docking Station. The onnly Downside to it is I Only Have 18 Hours of Battery Life!!! :lol:


----------



## FHSPSU67

Richierich said:


> Yes, I have a 64 GB Asus Transformer Prime Tablet in Champayne with the Fantastic Docking Station. The onnly Downside to it is I Only Have 18 Hours of Battery Life!!! :lol:


And I have exactly the same color and combo. Truly fine devices


----------



## bobukcat

Rich said:


> *This* from CNet.
> 
> Rich


Another review that talks about how iCloud and iOS "ties everything together" for you without mentioning Google+ (for instant photo and video upload), Google Music for taking your tunes with you everywhere and the ability to pin video from The Market for off-line viewing. The features and benefits of one versus the other is fodder for some good debate but they don't even mention it and that makes them seem uninformed or just plan biased to me. Also, not giving a media device more points for a 16:9 display (with higher resolution!) versus 4:3 just seems ridiculous - I guess my old CRTs were better than all my HD TVs and monitors after all. 

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Google Music and Google+ offers WAY more storage for free than iCloud does.


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> Also, not giving a media device more points for a 16:9 display (with higher resolution!) versus 4:3 just seems ridiculous - I guess my old CRTs were better than all my HD TVs and monitors after all. :-


Everyone's mileage varies. When I was deciding which tablet to buy, I knew that using it to watch movies would be a rare occurrence. We're both retired and home most of the year, so I knew that 99% of the time, we'd use it to run apps or browse the web. After spending a few hours in Best Buy and running some sample apps and web browsing on both the Xoom and the iPad, the 4:3 screen aspect ratio is actually one of the reasons I went iPad over the Xoom. I felt it worked better than 16:9 for general tablet use. For the record, the iPad's 9.7" 4:3 display is actually a couple of square inches larger than a 10.1" 16:9 display (45.19 vs. 43.56), and more than twice the square inches of a 7" 16:9 display (45.19 vs. 20.92).

And as far as HD movies go, when we have watched them on the iPad (like a good Nomad transcode, e.g.), they look great. Some shows look almost 3D.

The only place the Android screens have the iPad beat, IMHO, is in font resolution for e-books and web browsing. I hope all predictions that the iPad3 will have a retina display are accurate. I still want it to be 4:3, however.

BTW, ease of use for my extremely non-technical wife was the other big reason I went iPad, and I'm happy I did. Turns out I use it more than her, and as technical as I am, I don't feel any urge to "hack" when I use the iPad. It does everything I ask it to do in a flawless manner, just like any other great appliance I own. Just my .02, YMMV.


----------



## Richierich

Steve, I think the IPAD2 and the Asus Transformer Prime are about Equal. 

It all Depends on what YOU think is Important between the 2 Tablets.

I, for one, wanted a USB Connection, HDMI Out and an SD Card Input.


----------



## bobukcat

"Steve" said:


> Everyone's mileage varies. When I was deciding which tablet to buy, I knew that using it to watch movies would be a rare occurrence. We're both retired and home most of the year, so I knew that 99% of the time, we'd use it to run apps or browse the web. After spending a few hours in Best Buy and running some sample apps and web browsing on both the Xoom and the iPad, the 4:3 screen aspect ratio is actually one of the reasons I went iPad over the Xoom. I felt it worked better than 16:9 for general tablet use. For the record, the iPad's 9.7" 4:3 display is actually a couple of square inches larger than a 10.1" 16:9 display (45.19 vs. 43.56), and more than twice the square inches of a 7" 16:9 display (45.19 vs. 20.92).
> 
> And as far as HD movies go, when we have watched them on the iPad (like a good Nomad transcode, e.g.), they look great. Some shows look almost 3D.
> 
> The only place the Android screens have the iPad beat, IMHO, is in font resolution for e-books and web browsing. I hope all predictions that the iPad3 will have a retina display are accurate. I still want it to be 4:3, however.
> 
> BTW, ease of use for my extremely non-technical wife was the other big reason I went iPad, and I'm happy I did. Turns out I use it more than her, and as technical as I am, I don't feel any urge to "hack" when I use the iPad. It does everything I ask it to do in a flawless manner, just like any other great appliance I own. Just my .02, YMMV.


Understood and I didn't mean to suggest that the iPad is a bad choice, just taking issue with this review and the part that talked about media did not give the Xformer higher marks for 16:9 and higher resolution when the section on design gave the iPad extra points for its 4:3 form factor being "more natural" to hold. I just found that to be disingenuous or plain biased. All my TVs and monitors are 16:9 so that is what looks more natural to me (especially when watching a movie or HD TV clips, etc.) but I can see both sides of the argument as using the wife's iPad is certainly an enjoyable experience as well.

I like to "hack" my Android devices to some extent by loading ROMs but have been very pleased with them in stock condition as well. The one thing that drives me a little crazy about iOS after having used Android for several years is the inability to customize the screens but again I know that's a matter of preference.


----------



## Rich

bobukcat said:


> Another review that talks about how iCloud and iOS "ties everything together" for you without mentioning Google+ (for instant photo and video upload), Google Music for taking your tunes with you everywhere and the ability to pin video from The Market for off-line viewing. The features and benefits of one versus the other is fodder for some good debate but they don't even mention it and that makes them seem uninformed or just plan biased to me. Also, not giving a media device more points for a 16:9 display (with higher resolution!) versus 4:3 just seems ridiculous - I guess my old CRTs were better than all my HD TVs and monitors after all.
> 
> EDIT: I forgot to mention that Google Music and Google+ offers WAY more storage for free than iCloud does.


I was kinda disappointed by the CNet video too. I think their bias (can't honestly blame them) towards anything Apple is pretty obvious.

Rich


----------



## dennisj00

I have to agree with Steve. It's been how many years now and I can still use my iPad (original) or iPad 2 to watch anything nomad can send it, Netflix, or live TV via ESPN, CNN, or other sources.

I can also send any video to the tv without an HDMI connector (even though I have one) -- it does need Apple TV but that's another plus.

I can transfer anything from a PC without connecting a cable, moving a USB card or stick, and both still have DAYS of battery power without any docking station other than plugging in the power supply once or twice a week!

I still haven't seen another tablet that compares. Maybe the ipad 3 will convince me!


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"dennisj00" said:


> I have to agree with Steve. It's been how many years now and I can still use my iPad (original) or iPad 2 to watch anything nomad can send it, Netflix, or live TV via ESPN, CNN, or other sources.
> 
> I can also send any video to the tv without an HDMI connector (even though I have one) -- it does need Apple TV but that's another plus.
> 
> I can transfer anything from a PC without connecting a cable, moving a USB card or stick, and both still have DAYS of battery power without any docking station other than plugging in the power supply once or twice a week!
> 
> I still haven't seen another tablet that compares. Maybe the ipad 3 will convince me!


Another tablet that compares? Really?? The transformer prime is everything and more than the iPad and iPad2...you cant really fault those android tablets for not being able to stream and nomad stuff from directv as that's solely on them.

Honestly its been long enough too for that feature to be ported over...


----------



## Steve

Didn't mean to start another "which platform is better" discussion.  I was really just responding to Bobukat's comment about 16:9 and explaining why I prefer 4:3 for apps and web browsing, which is what we use our tablet for 99% of the time. When I was doing my homework prior to deciding which way to go, aspect ratio weighed heavily in my decision.

As always, consumers will vote with their $$$s. Will be interesting to see how the 2012 sales pie chart is ultimately divided between iPad, Fire, Nook and 7" and 10.1" Honeycomb/ICS tablets. There are also rumors of a 10" model of the Fire being introduced sometime this year.


----------



## Richierich

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Another tablet that compares? Really?? The transformer prime is everything and more than the iPad and iPad2...you cant really fault those android tablets for not being able to stream and nomad stuff from directv as that's solely on them.


I agree 1000% and I just don't understand why the Apple Huggers have to Always Defend How Great Their Apple Device is as in an IPAD when it is Great for those who don't want more Technoligical Abilities to Customize their devices to do what they want to do.

Steve Jobs even stated that it was for those who didn't want or needed to be Technically Minded and that is his Genius!!!

Not To Say That A Technically Minded Savvy Person Can't Desire To Have An IPAD 1,2 or 3 but it seems to be a CULT Almost Religious Thing and I just don't understand it anymore than you understand why I type a lot of stuff in CAPS!!! :lol:


----------



## Steve

It may have less to do with technical capability than expectations, Rich. I think some technically minded folks want their tablets to be able to functionally replace their laptops, and they evaluate features with that in mind. Nothing wrong with that approach at all.

OTOH, I'm far from an "Apple Hugger". I'm an extremely technical Windows 7 desktop user with 2 XP SP3 laptops and I view the iPad2 as a lightweight appliance that perhaps can't do everything my PCs can do, but what it can do, it does flawlessly, IMHO.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> OTOH, I'm far from an "Apple Hugger". I'm an extremely technical Windows 7 desktop user with 2 XP SP3 laptops and I view the iPad2 as a lightweight appliance that perhaps can't do everything my PCs can do, but what it can do, it does flawlessly, IMHO.


And there is Nothing Wrong with having Less Technically Minded Users enjoying a Device where they don't have to learn a lot to use the Device and that is the Marketing Genius Of Steve Jobs.

He was Not a Technically Minded Guru but a Technically Minded Marketing Visionary/Genius and he Succeed Very Well regardless of his Sprititual Ascenscion!!! :hurah:


----------



## dennisj00

It's certainly not just the Less Technically Minded Users. . . I'm still learning more about the iPad than a lot of other hardware.


----------



## Richierich

dennisj00 said:


> It's certainly not just the Less Technically Minded Users. . . I'm still learning more about the iPad than a lot of other hardware.


Just because he wanted to Create a PC Tablet Device that was easier for the Less Technically Minded to Use does not Preclude the Possibility that others who are More Technically Minded could not enjoy it as well.

I could enjoy the IPAD2 even though I prefer the Asus Transformer Prime.

The IPAD is a Very Innovative Device which is fairly simple to use and doesn't take a technical genius to use it.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> The only place the Android screens have the iPad beat, IMHO, is in font resolution for e-books and web browsing. I hope all predictions that the iPad3 will have a retina display are accurate. I still want it to be 4:3, however.


Speaking of display resolution, Asus upped the ante this week, with the announcement of the "Infinity Series" tablets, with a 1900x1200, 10.1 inch "super IPS" display. It comes in two models. A dual-core LTE version, and a quad-core wifi-only version. Both support Bluetooth 4.0. Will be interesting to see what the battery life on these devices are.

The also announced the 300 series, which comes in 1280x800 and 16gb only, with BT 3.0 support.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/27/2...nfinity-series-and-transformer-pad-300-series


----------



## Richierich

Well, isn't Competition wonderful as it makes both the Apple Products and the Android Products better!!!


----------



## Steve

Richierich said:


> Well, isn't Competition wonderful as it makes both the Apple Products and the Android Products better!!!


Ya. Rumor has it the iPad 3 will have double the iPad2 resolution 2048x1536. If so, I doubt anyone will see the difference between that and 1900x1200 with the naked eye, however.

So, IMHO, "resolution's done". They can now move on to the next thing, whatever it might be.

Could be to revisit battery life, because the higher res screens and 4G/LTE support will probably be more power-hungry.


----------



## Richierich

I use Verizon's WiFi Hub with my Asus Transformer Prime which can accomodate up to 5 Devices and it works nicely and doesn't contribute to using up the Battery Life which at 16 hours including the Docking Station (I know the Specs say 18 hours but in the Real World that will probably equate to about 16 Hours and less as the Battery Ages) which is plenty for a trip to Europe or Hawaii.


----------



## Steve

I find at 1.3 pounds, the iPad2 starts to feel heavy after holding it for a while. I'd like to see tablets get even lighter, if that's possible, and still maintain current battery life. Maybe less than a pound for a 9"-10" model?


----------



## Richierich

Competition will make these Tablets Lighter & have Improved Battery Life along with other Features being added or improved pretty much the same path that Cell Phones have taken.


----------



## Steve

Look's like Samsung is betting the pen will be mightier than the finger in 2012!



> Samsung earlier this week announced a 10.1-inch version of the Galaxy Note. When asked about the threat of redundant products, Yoon said he hoped the Note cannibalized sales of the original 10.1-inch Tab


Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_...ere-not-doing-very-well-in-the-tablet-market/


----------



## Steve

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/huawei-announces-the-first-10inch-quadcore-tablet/234484-11.html

Will be interesting to see what battery life is for a quad-core unit with LTE support. Asus's new infinity series only offers wi-fi in their quad-core model. The LTE model is dual-core.

Huawei has the potential to disrupt market pricing because they have access to extremely cheap labor and make their own CPU/GPUs to boot. E.g., they're pricing their Ascend smartphones 15% to 20% less than rival phones with similar specs.


----------



## RasputinAXP

I really want to see one of those Hyundai A7's I've seen reviews of.


----------



## phrelin

From the Silicon Valley Mercury News this morning: 


> ​
> ...The invitation from Apple has an image of a finger touching an iPad calendar icon displaying the number "7" with the tagline "We have something you really have to see. And touch."
> 
> ...The event will take place at 10 a.m. Pacific time at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts on March 7.


My invitation must be lost in the mail.... :sure:


----------



## Steve

phrelin said:


> My invitation must be lost in the mail.... :sure:


Mine too! :lol:

I put our iPad2 up on ebay yesterday, in anticipation of the 3 coming out in March. The 5-day auction ends Saturday. Hopefully it'll sell before ebay gets too saturated with them and the supply is more than the demand.


----------



## bobukcat

At 7.7 mm and 1.8 lbs but still packing all the external ports you could want (MicroSD, HDMI, SDCHC) does this one sway anyone to Toshiba over the Transformer Prime? It is still running Honeycomb today but will receive ICS "before summer". Wi-Fi and BT only, no WWAN version currently announced.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/29/to...st-10-tablet-the-excite-x10-le/?grcc=33333Z98


----------



## Rich

Steve said:


> Mine too! :lol:
> 
> I put our iPad2 up on ebay yesterday, in anticipation of the 3 coming out in March. The 5-day auction ends Saturday. Hopefully it'll sell before ebay gets too saturated with them and the supply is more than the demand.


I got an offer yesterday by email that gave me some breaks on the eBay costs if I used my Droid to list something, so I put the iPad up for auction. What an ordeal that was. Using the phone to list the iPad, I mean.

Rich


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Well, I am Glad y'all are coming to your senses and getting rid of your IPADs so you can buy a Better Tablet, the Asus Transformer Prime!!!


Still have no use for a tablet. We might buy an iPad 3 if it really has 4G. I really wanted a tablet when they came out, can't believe it's come to this....:nono2:

Rich


----------



## Steve

bobukcat said:


> At 7.7 mm and 1.8 lbs but still packing all the external ports you could want (MicroSD, HDMI, SDCHC) does this one sway anyone to Toshiba over the Transformer Prime? It is still running Honeycomb today but will receive ICS "before summer". Wi-Fi and BT only, no WWAN version currently announced.
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/29/to...st-10-tablet-the-excite-x10-le/?grcc=33333Z98


Nice! Toshiba went from one extreme to the other, from the 1.6 lb Thrive to the 1.18 lb Excite. And it's about half as thick at .33" vs. .6". Good they now get how important "thin and light" is for tablets, IMHO.

At $549, not exactly cheap though, for a wi-fi only 16GB 1.2 ghz dual core with a "standard" 1280x800 10.1 screen. I wouldn't be surprised if the new Huawei quad-core 1920x1200 tablet sells for around the same price.


----------



## Steve

According to PC Magazine, they were:

Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1
Toshiba AT 270
Fujitsu Stylistic M532
Asus Padfone
Asus Transformer Pad Infinity

*[more]*

I was very impressed how thin the 7.7" AT 270 is. As you can see below, it's barely thicker than the 3.5mm headphone jack!


----------



## Sixto

Richierich said:


> Well, I am Glad y'all are coming to your senses and getting rid of your IPADs so you can buy a Better Tablet, the Asus Transformer Prime!!!


I'm now iPad2 free. My iPad2 sold quick this week. Got two-thirds of what I paid for it which was fabulous.

Looking forward to what Tim announces next week, especially interested in any Apple TV announcement.

Or should I lean to the darkside with Richie ... ah ... nah.  (the Apple ecosystem, at least for my family is too compelling).


----------



## dennisj00

But you can have 18 hours of battery life - with the docking station!!

I'm sorry. . . I can't resist. . .


----------



## Steve

Or so says Forrester Research's Sarah Rotman Epps *here*.



> In a new report published for Forrester clients today, we've revised our US consumer tablet forecast upward: We now expect 112.5 million US adults to own a tablet in 2016, which will equal 34.3% of US adults.


I thought her closing comments were thought provoking as well.



> In 2012, disruptive product strategies stand the best chance of winning. Whether it will or not, we think Apple should launch a smaller, cheaper iPad to ward off competition from Amazon. We think Amazon should combat Apple by licensing its platform to other hardware OEMs. And we think OEMs like Lenovo, Toshiba, Samsung, and HTC should abandon pure Android in favor of Windows, at least in the US.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Steve" said:


> Or so says Forrester Research's Sarah Rotman Epps here.
> 
> I thought her closing comments were thought provoking as well.


Well if your an apple fan then I can see why the push for Amazon as its flavor of android is just like iOS in terms of being restrictive and user options.

But I think her idea in that last paragraph you quoted is the dumbest thing ever. License Amazon OS?? Really? The only reason that device has taken off the way it has is because of price. 
Real Android is 10000x better than the Amazon overlay which isn't even an overlay as its not even a Google device being it doesn't have the native google apps/framework at all.
Soon or now we will see more cheaper full android tablets that will be much more penetrating in the market.

I can't get over how silly that last paragraph is. I can't see any company signing on to use amazons OS version. Which I don't even know how'd they really license to begin with being that its based off android to an extent...


----------



## BubblePuppy

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Well if your an apple fan then I can see why the push for Amazon as its flavor of android is just like iOS in terms of being restrictive and user options.
> 
> But I think her idea in that last paragraph you quoted is the dumbest thing ever. License Amazon OS?? Really? The only reason that device has taken off the way it has is because of price.
> Real Android is 10000x better than the Amazon overlay which isn't even an overlay as its not even a Google device being it doesn't have the native google apps/framework at all.
> Soon or now we will see more cheaper full android tablets that will be much more penetrating in the market.
> 
> I can't get over how silly that last paragraph is. I can't see any company signing on to use amazons OS version. Which I don't even know how'd they really license to begin with being that its based off android to an extent...





> Rumor: Google's$199 "Nexustablet" to be made by ASUS,include quad-core Tegra3.
> Recently there's been rumblings that Google will release a 7-inch "Nexus tablet" in the first half of 2012, but many have doubted that Google would actually enter the hardware business. Several people have rightfully pointed out that Google traditionally partners with an OEM on these "Google Experience Devices", just like they did with Motorola on the Xoom tablet. Read on for the latest rumor surrounding who might produce Google's 7-inch tablet.


 http://androidandme.com/2012/03/opi...-to-be-made-by-asus-include-quad-core-tegra-3


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Well if your an apple fan then I can see why the push for Amazon as its flavor of android is just like iOS in terms of being restrictive and user options.


I'm not a fan of the Fire. I don't want all my clicks tracked by Amazon.



> But I think her idea in that last paragraph you quoted is the dumbest thing ever. License Amazon OS?? Really?


I don't think it's dumb at all, from Amazon's standpoint. They could care less about the hardware. They just want transactions.

And by license, my guess is she means Amazon should develop the same suite of apps running on Gingerbread as the Fire for other hardware manufacturers and likely give them a cut of the action in return.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"Steve" said:


> I'm not a fan of the Fire. I don't want all my clicks tracked by Amazon.
> 
> I don't think it's dumb at all, from Amazon's standpoint. They could care less about the hardware. They just want transactions. :shrug:


Not dumb for Amazon but dumb to suggest because I don't think Amazon could license that to more than one vender and that's it, if anyone at all. They are better off trying to just get their app store loaded on devices by default but id bet Google would have a say in that...


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> They are better off trying to just get their app store loaded on devices by default but id bet Google would have a say in that...


I'm not sure what Google has a say in, given how Amazon and B&N have essentially cut off all revenue to Google on the Fire and Nook.

I think that's why Google may be forced to subsidize, if need be, a $199 "pure" ICS tablet to fend off Amazon (and to a lesser extent B&N). Not unlike the reason Ms. Epps thinks Apple needs a 7" iPad to keep Amazon from taking away iOS marketshare.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

While today will be full of Apple news, im putting the Android favoritism part of me aside(at least try to) and will join in on this discussion...

This here sounds actually kinda cool...
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/44786/senseg-hints-at-ipad3-tech

heres a video of it from before...
http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/01/sensegs-tactile-display-gets-demoed-on-a-tablet-products-antic

In other rumors for this new iPad they state they are actually making the jump to quad-core Apple A6 chip...

I have to say them moving to quad-core seems like its going to happen for this release if you listen to all the blogs and such. Personally I will be surprised if they make the jump to Quad right now as its just not their style. Usually they always do something and leave you wanting something more for the next upgrade. Also Quad would make them be semi-early adapters to that feature which typically isn't their style just like how they hold off LTE implementation for a little bit.

From what I've read their A5 chip was still at 45nm...I have two theories here of what will happen. (One of which will contradict what I said above lol)
1) Quad-core A6 chip thats 45nm based on same Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz roughly
2) dual-core AX chip thats 32nm(since thats what Samsung has worked on lately for their own instead of the 28nm), based on Cortex-A15 so running at speeds of 1.5-2GHz...

I would think that they would rather do option #2 as for the general public all they care about is core# for most part. and even though I would rather have the dual-core Cortex-A15 28nm chip over the quad 32nm Cortex-A9 most of the GP would not b/c they automatically think quad>dual no matter what. 
*Unless if they do the Quad Cortex-A9 based chip today and then go straight to quad-core Cortex-A15 based in next release.


----------



## Chris Blount

Apple event discussion moved to a different thread since it will probably be more than just the iPad.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=202779


----------



## Chris Blount

Pretty good comparison chart:

http://www.komando.com/charts/column_9603.asp


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Chris Blount said:


> Pretty good comparison chart:
> 
> http://www.komando.com/charts/column_9603.asp


kinda, cept it leaves out the one thing that would put the iPad in better comparison to the Prime and thats the screen resolution n ppi...otherwise just looking at that seems Prime would be hands down no brainer less you go for app store or iOS preference...Also be nice to have cpu/gpu in it.

Also can't wait to see the release and see NVIDIA do their benchmark on it to respond to Apples claim of being 4x faster....should be good for some drama/competition in tech land as usual at least. lol


----------



## mystic7

Drew2k said:


> Congrats! I'm sure you'll like it...
> 
> There are a lot of great fee apps optimized for the tablet - if you want to find them, start in the Google Market, go to Apps, and depending on which version of Market is installed, look for "Staff Picks for Tablets" or "Recommended Tablet Apps".
> 
> You can also search for an app named "Tablet Market" by "tabletapps", where the developer aggregated almost ALL of the tablet apps by category.
> 
> You mentioned you liked some of the reference apps, so also look for "Google Body". It's really good - and it's free!
> 
> Enjoy your 15 days...


Hey Drew, question for ya. I had Google Body on that tablet that I returned. As you probably know I've since purchased another tablet that I kept. Well, as you may or may not know, Google withdrew Google Body from the market. It was picked up by a company called Zygote which was supposed to have re-released it, also for free, by now, but hasn't. Do you happen to have that app, and if so, could you upload it here for me? Being a free app it's not really stealing. As I said, Zygote also planned to make it available for free. Don't know what's taking them so long, it's not like they were going to refine it. Thanks either way.


----------



## TBlazer07

Richierich said:


> Yes, but the Apple Huggers will Deny the Statistics and that is Okay as long they Enjoy their Apple Device and the IPAD3 will probably be AWESOME which is Great as it will make the Asus try harder to Raise the Bar!!!
> 
> That is what Competition is All About especially in the Free Market Place where Dollars Drive what will Be!!!
> 
> Competition and the Free Market Place is the Greatest Driving Force For Human Ingenuity and Creativity!!! :hurah:
> 
> After all, Steve Jobs was more of a Marketing Genius than a Technical Genius and has made an awful lot of Moolah for Apple with his Creative Insights.


Is your "!" key stuck? They seem to always come in 3's.

Anyway, aren't we all beyond this insulting of people who like this or that device? I have been "anti-Apple" since they released the Apple ][, I just never liked their products, their stores or their former late CEO (especially after reading his bio) but the fact is they make a product that quite obviously millions (billions?) of people use and enjoy.

I have an Android phone (GSM Galaxy Nexus) which I love and have also HAD 3 different Android tablets all of which have been returned. I ended up with an iPad 2 (now a 3 coming). The reason is simply because no matter what store I walk into (including Walgreeens and CVS drugstores) you can find "stuff" for it. It's like buying batteries. Like it or not it is the default standard and will remain that way for years to come.

Aside from that, insulting people who own a device one doesn't like is getting real old. Maybe on MacRumors (that place drives me absolutely nuts) but not here.


----------



## Steve

Some speculation by ZDNet on what high resolution tablet displays might be useful for. Among other uses, they see a potential for medical imaging (and education), CAD/CAM, geologic data modeling, forensics and archaeology.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/perlow/ne...killer-mobile-visualization/20042?tag=nl.e539


----------



## Richierich

TBlazer07 said:


> Is your "!" key stuck? They seem to always come in 3's.
> 
> Anyway, aren't we all beyond this insulting of people who like this or that device? I have been "anti-Apple" since they released the Apple ][, I just never liked their products, their stores or their former late CEO (especially after reading his bio) but the fact is they make a product that quite obviously millions (billions?) of people use and enjoy.


I didn't Insult Anyone with my Comment and I believe the IPAD Devices have been very innovative and creative and have raised the bar for others such as Asus so that all of the products will be better for the end user.

It just seems that Apple Lovers refuse to believe the facts that other devices can be just as good if not better and they will defend their IPAD or whatever regardless of the True Facts.

I have a lot of friends who have the IPAD2 and love it and I believe the IPAD3 will be Awesome as I stated. I could even enjoy it if it had a USB Connection, HDMI Output and a SD Card Input along with Flash Support.

Also, my Exclamation Mark is not stuck but I do it just to get a response such as yours. :lol:


----------



## Drew2k

mystic7 said:


> Hey Drew, question for ya. I had Google Body on that tablet that I returned. As you probably know I've since purchased another tablet that I kept. Well, as you may or may not know, Google withdrew Google Body from the market. It was picked up by a company called Zygote which was supposed to have re-released it, also for free, by now, but hasn't. Do you happen to have that app, and if so, could you upload it here for me? Being a free app it's not really stealing. As I said, Zygote also planned to make it available for free. Don't know what's taking them so long, it's not like they were going to refine it. Thanks either way.


mystic, I found a link on XDA forums that appears to point to the APK for sideloading, but I haven't tested it. I'm sure it's out there somewhere...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=967797


----------



## TBlazer07

Drew2k said:


> mystic, I found a link on XDA forums that appears to point to the APK for sideloading, but I haven't tested it. I'm sure it's out there somewhere...
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=967797


 Can't get that link to work. It was from Feb 2011.

This link works: https://rapidshare.com/#!download|6...|11852|R~63A6E666D2683E94852E73D2C8E4010B|0|0


----------



## mystic7

Thanks to both of you!


----------



## Steve

http://asia.cnet.com/product/apple-...e-a5x-processor-9-7-inch-display-45880173.htm

They really like the screen.


----------



## Chris Blount

Richierich said:


> It just seems that Apple Lovers refuse to believe the facts that other devices can be just as good if not better and they will defend their IPAD or whatever regardless of the True Facts.
> 
> I have a lot of friends who have the IPAD2 and love it and I believe the IPAD3 will be Awesome as I stated. I could even enjoy it if it had a USB Connection, HDMI Output and a SD Card Input along with Flash Support.


For me it's more about the infrastracture. My entire family has iPhones and iPads. I also have Mac computers. They all work together in a seemless integration. Moving to another tablet would only orphan it right out of the box. I know the other tablets are pretty darn good but they wouldn't be a good fit in our family's computing needs. That was one of the things that attracted me to Apple in the first place. The integration factor.

By the way, with the proper adapters, the iPad does have USB, HDMI and SD card capability. Can't figure out why people keep saying it doesn't. Sure, there are no dedicated ports but the iPad does have those functions.


----------



## Steve

Full *ZDNet* article: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/mobile-ne...op-replacement-pros-and-cons/7125?tag=nl.e505



> *Conclusion: *_The Transformer Prime is easily the best Android tablet I have used to date. It is extremely powerful and offers great utility for everything normally done with a tablet. Paired with the laptop dock that utility is extended far beyond that available from any tablet in the Android space. While expensive to purchase the tablet and dock strictly to replace a laptop, as there are cheap laptops for that purpose, it is a great alternative for tablet users who want to get additional functionality out of a slate._


----------



## TBlazer07

Steve said:


> Full *ZDNet* article: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/mobile-ne...op-replacement-pros-and-cons/7125?tag=nl.e505


 What I can't figure out is everyone says how great Asus's (Asii?) are because of the dock and it's extended battery life. If you're going to lug a tablet and a relatively heavy keyboard you might as well have a netbook or notebook with a "real" O/S (either PC or MAC). Doing it just for battery life seems counter-intuitive to buying a tablet. May as well get a netbook if you're going to lug a keyboard with it anyway. At least that has a "real" O/S on it.

I had the original transformer for a short while and tried the keyboard dock but I also have a 3.5lb laptop w/12" screen so returned the dock. Battery life is less but sufficient for most everything.


----------



## djlong

Chris Blount said:


> By the way, with the proper adapters, the iPad does have USB, HDMI and SD card capability. Can't figure out why people keep saying it doesn't. Sure, there are no dedicated ports but the iPad does have those functions.


Not QUITE true. If your iPad is full, you can't read books or watch movies or listen to music or play games off the SD card. The adapter they sell allows you to IMPORT some stuff from your SD card to the iPad's memory.

It's a bit of nit-picking, I admit, but just in the spirit of full disclosure.


----------



## Steve

Tablets can never be too thin or too light, IMHO. I'm not happy about the fact that the new iPad is 1.7 ounces heavier than the old one. I was really hoping it would get lighter, but I understand the need for the 42 (vs. 25) watt-hour battery for the 4G radio and the extra LED's required to achieve good brightness with the retina display's tiny picture elements.


----------



## Chris Blount

djlong said:


> Not QUITE true. If your iPad is full, you can't read books or watch movies or listen to music or play games off the SD card. The adapter they sell allows you to IMPORT some stuff from your SD card to the iPad's memory.


True but all those can be done from the cloud and when the iPad fills up it automatically deletes older items.

I personally would have no use for an SD card on the iPad other than being able to import photos from my DSLR (which I can do). Everything else is up on the cloud and easily accessed if I need it.


----------



## FHSPSU67

TBlazer07 said:


> What I can't figure out is everyone says how great Asus's (Asii?) are because of the dock and it's extended battery life. If you're going to lug a tablet and a relatively heavy keyboard you might as well have a netbook or notebook with a "real" O/S (either PC or MAC). Doing it just for battery life seems counter-intuitive to buying a tablet. May as well get a netbook if you're going to lug a keyboard with it anyway. At least that has a "real" O/S on it.
> 
> I had the original transformer for a short while and tried the keyboard dock but I also have a 3.5lb laptop w/12" screen so returned the dock. Battery life is less but sufficient for most everything.


But the nice thing is that you don't have to carry the ASUS docked. I'd say my usage is 25/75 with dock, without dock. I can get 10 hours of average use out of the pad itself, while the dock/keypad adds an extra 6 hours of battery life.

I'm not about to argue the OS thing. I'm very happy with my Win 7 system at home, and my Android system on the road.


----------



## TBlazer07

FHSPSU67 said:


> But the nice thing is that you don't have to carry the ASUS docked.


 Right, I agree, but the majority of the rave reviews are based on it docked with it's extended battery life. You still have to carry the dock around or bring it with you for the times when you want to use it. The Asus on it's own isn't getting the greatest reviews because of the (unacknowledged) issues with Wi-Fi and GPS. As you know the way they resolved the GPS issue was by removing it from the specs. Hey it's not there so there is no problem.

My original Xformer was a nice device except the build quaility was crap. Glass was popping up and it creaked like my old bones. I assume the new one is better. The Galaxy Tab build quality was "Apple Like" but I ended up with the iPad when my Grandkids came by and said "don't you have (whatever it was) games that daddy has on his iPhone." As much as I dislike Apple as a company their products just become the defacto standard. I do wish the iPad was 16:9 which was my favorite feature of the 'droids. I also enjoyed the custom roms as I do on my GNex.


----------



## spartanstew

TBlazer07 said:


> Right, I agree, but the majority of the rave reviews are based on it docked with it's extended battery life. You still have to carry the dock around or bring it with you for the times when you want to use it.


Not necessarily. Up until recently I traveled a lot. I could keep the docking station in my luggage and just carry the tablet part on the plane. Worked fabulously, and then when I got to my hotel, I would just attach the keyboard dock and use it like a laptop. Much more convenient than carrying a laptop on the plane and much better than using a tablet at my hotel.

I use it similarly now that I'm home all the time. I use it with the docking station when I'm laying in bed reading (because I don't even have to hold it when I'm reading on my stomache) or if I'm doing something on the couch where I'll be doing a lot of typing. I just slip it off when I want the ease of a tablet or when my kids are playing games on it.

It's truly the best of both worlds.


----------



## Richierich

spartanstew said:


> Not necessarily. Up until recently I traveled a lot. I could keep the docking station in my luggage and just carry the tablet part on the plane. Worked fabulously, and then when I got to my hotel, I would just attach the keyboard dock and use it like a laptop. Much more convenient than carrying a laptop on the plane and much better than using a tablet at my hotel.
> 
> I use it similarly now that I'm home all the time. I use it with the docking station when I'm laying in bed reading (because I don't even have to hold it when I'm reading on my stomache) or if I'm doing something on the couch where I'll be doing a lot of typing. I just slip it off when I want the ease of a tablet or when my kids are playing games on it.
> 
> It's truly the best of both worlds.


+1000.

You either have a Tablet with 10 Hours of Battery Life or you have a small Laptop or Netbook with 16 Hours of Battery Life.

Also, on the plane I leave it in the Docking Station for Viewing.

Also, to get the USB Type Features along with HDMI Ouput with the IPAD you have to pay Extra for those Proprietary Services and these are included for Free with the Asus Transformer Prime not as Add-Ons.


----------



## Steve

c|net just reported the results of their battery life test of the new iPad. They also ran the same test on the iPad 2 and the Transformer Prime, with and without the dock.

iPad (retina display), iOS 5.1: *12.8* hours
iPad 2, iOS 5.1: *14.2* hours
iPad 2, iOS 4.3: *11.9* hours
Transformer Prime: *9.6* hours
Transformer Prime w Dock: *15.3* hours



> We set each tablet to Airplane mode and adjusted its respective brightnesses to 150 candelas per square meter (cd/m2) or as close to that number as possible. For each iPad, that's a bit lower than the halfway mark on the brightness scale.
> 
> We ran the 720p iPad version of "Toy Story 3." On the Transformer Prime, we ran a 720p version of "Toy Story 3." The new iPad also supports 1080p playback of movies, but we've yet to run the battery test with a movie file at that resolution. [*more*]


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> c|net just reported the results of their battery life test of the new iPad. They also ran the same test on the iPad 2 and the Transformer Prime, with and without the dock.
> 
> iPad (retina display), iOS 5.1: *12.8* hours
> iPad 2, iOS 5.1: *14.2* hours
> iPad 2, iOS 4.3: *11.9* hours
> Transformer Prime: *9.6* hours
> Transformer Prime w Dock: *15.3* hours


Thanks Steve for that Information as I have wondered how long the Actual Battery Life was on the Asus Transformer Prime Tablet with Docking Station.


----------



## Steve

Richierich said:


> Thanks Steve for that Information as I have wondered how long the Actual Battery Life was on the Asus Transformer Prime Tablet with Docking Station.


Looks like the dock battery is about 2/3 the capacity of the tablet battery.


----------



## Richierich

The Transformer Prime Tablet states it has 18 hours of Battery Life but in Actuality it always is less as the Vice President of Marketing has input as to how long the Battery Life is so you have to take those Statistics with a Grain Of Salt. :lol:

Good to know it is more like 15 Hours so you will know to be prepared but that is one heck of a lot of battery power.

Definitely good to go for my Annual Vacations to Hawaii or Europe.


----------



## Richierich

Chris Blount said:


> For me it's more about the infrastracture. My entire family has iPhones and iPads. I also have Mac computers. They all work together in a seemless integration. Moving to another tablet would only orphan it right out of the box. I know the other tablets are pretty darn good but they wouldn't be a good fit in our family's computing needs. That was one of the things that attracted me to Apple in the first place. The integration factor.
> 
> By the way, with the proper adapters, the iPad does have USB, HDMI and SD card capability. Can't figure out why people keep saying it doesn't. Sure, there are no dedicated ports but the iPad does have those functions.


That makes a lot of sense Chris about having an Apple Infrastructure with many different Apple Products that can interact with each other and I hadn't thought about that, Great Point.

I just have Itunes so it doesn't move me to buy an Ipad just for that but I love Itunes.

The only other point is that with the Transformer Prime you get USB, HDMI, and SD Card Input included with the original price and Apple always Nickels and Dimes you to death with all of the Add-Ons but at least they make it available if you have the money.


----------



## BobaBird

Now Dell is planning a fresh assault with the advent of Microsoft's new Windows 8 operating platform, ...

Dell remains steadfast in its belief that there is plenty of opportunity for competitors to generate sales. "We have a roadmap for tablets that we haven't announced yet. You'll see some announcements ... for the back half of the year,"

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/03/17/dell-tablets-idINDEE82G05A20120317


----------



## Steve

It's a small sample, and who knows if this is the case nationwide, but it might be further evidence of the paradigm shifting from PCs to tablets.



> The new iPad is attracting more new buyers than owners of the original iPad, at least according to a small survey by investment firm UBS.
> 
> A full 46 percent of New York City customers waiting in line for the new iPad last Friday were first timers for Apple's popular tablet. Polling a total of 165 eager buyers on launch day, UBS also found that 38 percent were upgrading from the original iPad. The company didn't specify the responses for the remaining 16 percent of those surveyed. [*more*]


----------



## olguy

BobaBird said:


> Now Dell is planning a fresh assault with the advent of Microsoft's new Windows 8 operating platform, ...
> 
> Dell remains steadfast in its belief that there is plenty of opportunity for competitors to generate sales. "We have a roadmap for tablets that we haven't announced yet. You'll see some announcements ... for the back half of the year,"
> 
> http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/03/17/dell-tablets-idINDEE82G05A20120317


I read that Dell was concentrating on a Windows 8 tablet last October when they announced they were going to stop making Android tablets. A couple of weeks after I bought my Dell Streak 7. :lol:


----------



## Richierich

I just learned that a lot of people are complaining that the New IPDA3 heats up a lot and actually get Hot in the Lower Left Hand Side when held in Portrait Mode.

Here is an Excerpt from the Post.

"According to early user reports, the new iPad may be prone to becoming physically warm during use, especially in the lower left-hand corner when holding the iPad upright in portrait mode. The question of whether the iPad has a temperature problem has been asked on both the Apple Discussion Boards and in the MacRumors forums, and articles on CNET, The Next Web and Gizmodo have all brought unwanted attention to the new iPad's heat."


----------



## klang

It does get a bit warmer on the back than the iPad 1 or 2 did. My wife's hasn't been uncomfortable hot though. 

I remember the first time I tried running Navigon on my first iPhone, 3 I believe. Thing got hot enough to burn.


----------



## Richierich

Here is a Link to the Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...id10|htmlws-main-bb|dl7|sec1_lnk3&pLid=144673

I hope it is not too serious a problem for Apple IPAD3 Users.

Here is a Quote from an IPAD3 User.

"Mine is a 64 GB with WIFi and LTE - LTE not hooked up yet - got hot enogh that I measured with infared thermometer and it was 117 degree after 10 minutes - my little boy says its too hot to hold - (Great !) but seriously its not comfortable and I will be returning it to the store."


----------



## Steve

One of the review last Thursday, prior to availability, mentioned one corner got a little warm, but not uncomfortably so. And it was an LTE unit too, IIRC. As a result, I spent all week-end trying to get the one I was using (wifi only) to get even warm to the touch, and wasn't able to. :shrug:

Here's what today's WashingtonPost.com had to say:


> Some users raising concerns about the higher temperatures say they noticed them while the iPad was on a bed or in direct sunlight - scenarios that will fluster almost any gadget.


I know I occasionally leave my iPod in the car in direct sunlight and get an "iPod needs to cool down" error screen (or something to that effect) when trying to start it up.


----------



## Richierich

Well, these Users did not have it on a bed or anything where the fan would get blocked or in a car but reported holding it in a Portrait Style manner so it seems like perhaps the battery is giving off excessive heat on some units.

May be just some early units and maybe the problem has been corrected.

Obviously, they went with a larger battery to support the higher resolution screen so maybe that is the problem or maybe the LTE is causing greater heat.


----------



## Steve

Richierich said:


> Well, these Users did not have it on a bed or anything where the fan would get blocked or in a car but reported holding it in a Portrait Style manner [...]


Different article? I don't see any environmental details one way or the other in that Huffington Post piece, just the user complaints. :shrug:

Only asking, because I found a review that actually measured the temperature. And turns out it was a 4G model:



> Our only real gripe is heat. We wouldn't say it's cause for alarm, but we definitely noticed the bottom left side of the new iPad warming up during use, especially when the 4G radio was active. After streaming a YouTube video for 15 minutes, that spot reached 95 degrees Fahrenheit. By comparison, the ASUS Transformer Prime only reached 85 degrees at its hottest spot on the back after performing the same test.


And AFAIK, the Prime does not have a 3G or 4G radio inside, so they'd have been streaming that video over the wifi radio.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> And AFAIK, the Prime does not have a 3G or 4G radio inside, so they'd have been streaming that video over the wifi radio.


No, I use my Verizon WiFi Hub for Streaming or Internet Access on my Asus Transformer Prime Tablet (let's keep the discussion about the IPAD3 Heating Up and Not an Apple versus Asus Debate) but they did not state that they were Streaming but Only that it Heated Up which may be a Problem with the 3G/4G Mechanics (which does not always mean you are Streaming Video), who knows but I am just Reporting the Heat Problem and hopefully soon it can be Cleared Up!!!


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> Only asking, because I found a review that actually measured the temperature. And turns out it was a 4G model:
> 
> And AFAIK, the Prime does not have a 3G or 4G radio inside, so they'd have been streaming that video over the wifi radio. (which is Irrelevant about the IPAD3 Heating Up).


Here is a Quote from an IPAD3 User.

"Mine is a 64 GB with WIFi and LTE - LTE not hooked up yet - got Hot enough that I measured with Infrared Thermometer and it was 117 degrees after 10 minutes - my little boy says its too hot to hold - (Great !) but seriously its not comfortable and I will be returning it to the store."

Obviously not in a Car or in a Heated Environment so Apparently there is a Problem and hopefully Apple will be able to figure it out SOON!!!


----------



## TBlazer07

Richierich said:


> Here is a Link to the Post.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...id10|htmlws-main-bb|dl7|sec1_lnk3&pLid=144673
> 
> I hope it is not too serious a problem for Apple IPAD3 Users.
> 
> Here is a Quote from an IPAD3 User.
> 
> "Mine is a 64 GB with WIFi and LTE - LTE not hooked up yet - got hot enogh that I measured with infared thermometer and it was 117 degree after 10 minutes - my little boy says its too hot to hold - (Great !) but seriously its not comfortable and I will be returning it to the store."


My GSM Galaxy Nexus gets VERY hot even in a case with only the screen on. Others report that as well. I keep it in my shirt pocket in a case and I can really feel it through my shirt. One time it got hot enough to actually bother me. I guess that's the price you pay for "power."

I haven't needed the 3G/LTE in the iPad so it's disabled so I haven't noticed the heat issue but I have used the GPS for about an hour in the car and it got warm but nothing terrible.


----------



## olguy

TBlazer07 said:


> My GSM Galaxy Nexus gets VERY hot even in a case with only the screen on. Others report that as well. I keep it in my shirt pocket in a case and I can really feel it through my shirt. One time it got hot enough to actually bother me. I guess that's the price you pay for "power."
> 
> I haven't needed the 3G/LTE in the iPad so it's disabled so I haven't noticed the heat issue but I have used the GPS for about an hour in the car and it got warm but nothing terrible.


My Galaxy S II Skyrocket can get pretty warm also.


----------



## Steve

Ya. A Dutch site measured the iPad2 vs the new one, and the new one was 5 degrees C warmer at ~ 93 F. I assume they measured it with the brightness cranked all the way up.

It is what it is. To get to expected brightness, the retina display requires twice the backlighting of a "normal" screen because the picture elements are so tiny, so in a thin case like that, apparently you may feel some warmth compared to a standard display.

I wasn't able to feel any warmth at default brightness (and no LTE radio). Also seems like the majority of folks in that Apple thread those quotes came from don't feel any warmth either. And a few that did said the battery ran cooler after 1-2 discharge/recharge cycles.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> I wasn't able to feel any warmth at default brightness (and no LTE radio). Also seems like the majority of folks in that Apple thread those quotes came from don't feel any warmth either. And a few that did said the battery ran cooler after 1-2 discharge/recharge cycles.


That's a Good Thing if it is only warm and not Hot. Hopefully also it may just be a few early units that experience the Hot Experience and maybe others just experience Warmness.

The larger the battery with more brightness and better PQ of the screen will come some more Heat but hopefully it won't harm anyone but just occasionally be a discomfort for some.


----------



## Richierich

A nice Post about Tablets on Airplanes in the Future in the AJC today.

"The Government is taking a tentative step toward making it easier for Airlines to allow passengers to use personal electronic devices such as Tablets, E-Readers, and Music Players during Takeoffs and Landings."

"One device that won't be included in the discussions: Cellphones including Smartphones...the FCC already prohibits their use aloft for reasons unrelated to Safety Concerns."


----------



## Richierich

Here is the Link to the Consumer Reports Report on the HOT IPAD3 Problem in the USATODAY!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-03-20/ipad-heating-consumer-reports/53675154/1

A Quote from Consumer Reports: "CR tested Apple's new iPad by running the game Infinity Blade II for 45 minutes while plugged in. The consumer watchdog used a thermal-imaging camera to find the new iPad3 recorded a temperature of 116 degrees when plugged in and 113 degrees when unplugged.".


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Here is the Link to the Consumer Reports Report on the HOT IPAD3 Problem in the USATODAY!!!
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-03-20/ipad-heating-consumer-reports/53675154/1
> 
> A Quote from Consumer Reports: "CR tested Apple's new iPad by running the game Infinity Blade II for 45 minutes while plugged in. The consumer watchdog used a thermal-imaging camera to find the new iPad3 recorded a temperature of 116 degrees when plugged in and 113 degrees when unplugged.".


Ah, but Apple says it's safe. What else could they say?

Rich


----------



## Richierich

Rich said:


> Ah, but Apple says it's safe. What else could they say?
> 
> Rich


Yes, I just Love the Spin that Apple put out about the Heat Problem.

"The new iPad delivers a stunning Retina display, A5X chip, support for 4G LTE plus 10 hours of battery life, all while operating well within our thermal specifications," Apple spokeswoman Natalie Harrison said.

"If customers have any concerns, they should contact AppleCare." and what, get Burn Medication.

If 116 Degrees is Operating in your Thermal Specifications then you obviously don't care about your customers or maybe you will send them some Thermal Barbeque Gloves to Handle the New IPAD3.


----------



## dennisj00

Anybody think some of these reviews / reports could be 'planted' or exaggerated?? Of course, there are isolated problems with devices - wife had a battery problem with a MacBook Pro after 2 years. (they replaced the battery for FREE). And more widespread problems - the iPhone 4 'antenna gate' if you didn't have a skin / case on it. (They sent us two cases for FREE even though we didn't experience the problem.)

I would expect in 3 Million devices, some might have problems. We haven't experienced any heating problem with the 3. But that's only 1 in 3 MILLION.

I would also expect playing an intensive game while plugged in would raise the temp. I use a 'cooler' on my Dell laptop!

I think the best advice is "If customers have any concerns, they should contact AppleCare."


----------



## Rich

Richierich said:


> Yes, I just Love the Spin that Apple put out about the Heat Problem.
> 
> "The new iPad delivers a stunning Retina display, A5X chip, support for 4G LTE plus 10 hours of battery life, all while operating well within our thermal specifications," Apple spokeswoman Natalie Harrison said.
> 
> "If customers have any concerns, they should contact AppleCare." and what, get Burn Medication.
> 
> If 116 Degrees is Operating in your Thermal Specifications then you obviously don't care about your customers or maybe you will send them some Thermal Barbeque Glove to Handle the New IPAD3.


I think Apple rarely admits they make mistakes.

Rich


----------



## Richierich

dennisj00 said:


> I would expect in 3 Million devices, some might have problems. We haven't experienced any heating problem with the 3. But that's only 1 in 3 MILLION.
> 
> I would also expect playing an intensive game while plugged in would raise the temp. I use a 'cooler' on my Dell laptop!
> "


I would think that the more Intensive Work that the CPU does plus the Larger Battery plus the Larger HD Screen Resolution and 4G/LTE Usage could cause these higher heat problems but still there seems to be a problem as just reported by Fox News and other News Organizations will be signing on so I am sure Apple will be addressing this Hot Issue Soon!!!


----------



## Richierich

dennisj00 said:


> Anybody think some of these reviews / reports could be 'planted' or exaggerated??


Consumer Reports and ZDNET and USATODAY and Fox News are All going along in a Conspiracy to make Apple look Bad!!!

I don't think so and you can look at Reviews to determine what is actually going.


----------



## Chris Blount

Don't have issues with mine, then again, I don't have time to play games even for 45 minutes.

Besides, every computer and laptop I have ever had (Windows or other), gets hot during intensive processing. Nothing new.


----------



## Steve

> Consumer Reports reviewer Donna Tapellini said that in tests even when the tablet was "at its hottest, it felt very warm but not especially uncomfortable" when held for a short period of time. [*more*]


I expect as a result of all this, Apple will put in some software safeguards that keep the processor from overheating with games like the one that sent the iPad's temp into the teens. Running the software I typically use, I used a "retina" iPad over the week-end for hours non-stop and didn't feel a "warm corner" at all, even though I was expecting to, based on a review I read.

Unless a competitor comes up with an equally thin tablet with comparable CPU, screen resolution and battery life that runs cool under _any_ circumstances, then it may be fair to say that _"warm but not especially uncomfortable"_ is the new reality for thin, high-resolution tablets. And Apple is simply taking the heat (pun intended ) for being first out of the gate with one.


----------



## Steve

Chris Blount said:


> Besides, every computer and laptop I have ever had (Windows or other), gets hot during intensive processing. Nothing new.


There's actually a condition caused by laptops called "toasted skin syndrome". :eek2:


----------



## Richierich

Chris Blount said:


> Don't have issues with mine, then again, I don't have time to play games even for 45 minutes.


Chris, there are Issues with some Units and hopefully not all of them and maybe it depends on whether they are using 4G/LTE or not or Gaming could play a factor but regardless you can not say that there are not IPAD3 Users who are Not Experiencing problems so let's just look at this as it unfolds and see what Plays Out!

Apple People are Always So Defensive (I Am Sure That I Will Be Shouted Down at all costs) and that doesnt need to be in this case if their is a Real Problem that could Hurt or Injure Users or Not Allow them to Enjoy their IPAD3 Comfortably, if not then let it just Play Out and we will find out The Truth as it emerges!

I don't think it is a Great Conspiracy!!!


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> Unless a competitor comes up with an equally thin tablet with comparable CPU, screen resolution and battery life that runs cool under _any_ circumstances, then it may be fair to say that _"warm but not especially uncomfortable"_ is the new reality for thin, high-resolution tablets. And Apple is simply taking the heat (pun intended ) for being first out of the gate with one.


Asus Transformer Prime Tablet had already done that and is helping to drive Apple to higher dimensions but maybe they rushed the IPAD3 out before it was thoroughly tested and may have to Backtrack a bit to get it right but it's all Good because in the End Game it will Drive others to produce a Better Product as Apple is Not the Only Game In Town!!!


----------



## dennisj00

Here's my review. . . remember, it's only 1 in 3 MILLION and I doubt it will make Fox News or USA Today, but between 4pm and 5pm today (1 hour), I plugged the iPad (3) in and played the most intensive game I have on it - HD Pinball. Forgot how much fun it is!

During that time, the battery charged from 67% to 93% -- and I generally never use the iPad while it's plugged in unless I forgot to plug it in within the last day or so.

The rear case (no skin yet, it's on order), was warmer on the left bottom, warm on right bottom - where both hands were flipping the flippers. The top left and right was cool, ambient. But nowhere was as warm as any laptop that I've ever used.

The reports aren't necessarily a conspiracy, it's called 'grab a headline'. The Consumer Report article says explicity that 'it's safe', but there may be a problem!!

Great reporting!


----------



## Richierich

dennisj00 said:


> The reports aren't necessarily a conspiracy, it's called 'grab a headline'. The Consumer Report article says explicity that 'it's safe', but there may be a problem!! Great reporting!


Hopefully it will Not be a Big Problem and it will be Interesting how it all Play Out when the Truth comes in!

Maybe a bunch of hype about nothing so I guess we will see.


----------



## phrelin

PCWorld has a "-gate" index, like "heatgate". About the new iPad, they rate heat as a "-gate" possibility relatively low compared to the wifi problems at least some people are experiencing.

Some people based on their particular usage needs might see this as a problem. Most probably won't.


----------



## Steve

phrelin said:


> PCWorld has a "-gate" index, like "heatgate". About the new iPad, they rate heat as a "-gate" possibility relatively low compared to the wifi problems at least some people are experiencing.
> 
> Some people based on their particular usage needs might see this as a problem. Most probably won't.


Hopefully the wifi issue some are experiencing is one that can be fixed with s/w, like the wifi issue with the original iPad. If folks use more 3G or LTE because they can't get wifi, they're gonna burn through those monthly data caps even more quickly.


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> Hopefully the wifi issue some are experiencing is one that can be fixed with s/w, like the wifi issue with the original iPad. If folks use more 3G or LTE because they can't get wifi, they're gonna burn through those monthly data caps even more quickly.


Yes, Steve, Fox News Has Reported that with 4G you are using 2 to 3 times as much Data Usage as normally so if you can Afford It Then Go For It!


----------



## dennisj00

The CR / USA Today doesn't speicify which model, but having the 4G/LTE module on while in a test mode could also hit the battery (heat) harder.


----------



## Richierich

dennisj00 said:


> The CR / USA Today doesn't speicify which model, but having the 4G/LTE module on while in a test mode could also hit the battery (heat) harder.


I am sure that the More Work you throw at the CPU and the Screen and the Hard Drive with a Larger Battery then you will see Heat Issues!


----------



## dpeters11

Consumer Reports lost credibility with me back when they wrote viruses to test Antivirus. And now their Consumerist Blog has DirecTV in a Worst Company in America contest (they "beat" Dish in the voting in the first round,)


----------



## Steve

dpeters11 said:


> Consumer Reports lost credibility with me back when they wrote viruses to test Antivirus. And now their Consumerist Blog has DirecTV in a Worst Company in America contest (they "beat" Dish in the voting in the first round,)


*Betanews* didn't have very kind words for *CR*, in this column published a few hours ago. And I should note that *Betanews* is not known as being a "pro Apple" website.

*Stand in line to beat Apple senseless*


----------



## phrelin

Truthfully, in days of yore CR was a good source to check for refrigerators or cars.

But when in the 1990's when they started rating computers and other high tech products I became a bit annoyed with their work. As we all know, what you bought last week to test won't be what you would buy when the test results came out six months later. And then if you're not a pretty high powered techie, you don't know what to test.

What we have in the new iPad is a battery powered computer that's been upgraded to meet high consumer expectations. But among the consumers we have idiots who want to place demands on the product that it can meet, but not without some side effects, like heat and monthly data caps being exceeded while watching a couple of HD movies.

But you've got to love this comment in the PCWord article:


> Consumer Reports recently said that, in its tests, the new iPad hits temperatures as high as 116 degrees Fahrenheit when running games. To put that number in perspective, 116 degrees is reportedly hot enough to destroy enzymes in food or act as a natural spermicide for men. But all may not be as it seems as, towards the bottom of its post, Consumer Reports says this: "at its hottest, [the iPad] felt very warm but not especially uncomfortable if held for a brief period."


In other words, if your excessively pushing your new iPad you can probably hold it, but don't put it in your lap, guys. :sure:


----------



## TBlazer07

So along with everything else it works as birth control? Uh Oh, some of the POTUS candidates may now want to outlaw it.


----------



## Richierich

TBlazer07 said:


> So along with everything else it works as birth control? Uh Oh, some of the POTUS candidates may now want to outlaw it.


Also, another great benefit of the new IPAD3 is that you can cook your bacon and eggs for Breakfast while you wait for your airplane to start boarding. :lol:


----------



## Cholly

My lady friend picked up a motorola droid xyboard 10.1 tablet at Verizon yesterday. She had been talking about getting an iPad, so I'm curious to see what prompted her to go with the Droid. I haven't learned which model she got. Seems one of her reasons for getting a tablet in the first place is to engage in video chats with family in California.


----------



## TBlazer07

Richierich said:


> Yes, Steve, Fox News Has Reported that with 4G you are using 2 to 3 times as much Data Usage as normally so if you can Afford It Then Go For It!


 I saw that and laughed my ass off. Like everything else Fox news reports that is totally absurd as one can't use MORE data because it's 4G only THE SAME DATA in a LESS TIME. They reported "people were using up their data plan in record time because 4G uses more data than 3G!" :lol:


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

"TBlazer07" said:


> I saw that and laughed my ass off. Like everything else Fox news reports that is totally absurd as one can't use MORE data because it's 4G only THE SAME DATA in a LESS TIME. They reported "people were using up their data plan in record time because 4G uses more data than 3G!" :lol:


Ehh not necc...faster data with 4G would allow you to do things like have pages load faster and in turn allow you to view more things in the same amout if time...so with that you could be seen as using more overall because of the opportunity there to do so...


----------



## Richierich

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> Ehh not necc...faster data with 4G would allow you to do things like have pages load faster and in turn allow you to view more things in the same amout if time...so with that you could be seen as using more overall because of the opportunity there to do so...


Also, probably some kid Downloading a couple of HD Movies. I have stated many many times here at DBSTALK that Netstreaming will continue to cost more and have more Tiered Pricing and Downloading KD Movies will be Cost Prohibitive unless Techological Innovations change the pricing scent.


----------



## Chris Blount

Case closed.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=confirmed-new-ipads-heat-a-non-issu-2012-03


----------



## spartanstew

Chris Blount said:


> Case closed.
> 
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=confirmed-new-ipads-heat-a-non-issu-2012-03


From the article:

*The new 2012 iPad runs warmer than the iPad 2, but it's no hotter than many laptops under similar conditions.*

I don't know about you, but I would expect my tablet to be a lot cooler than my laptop.


----------



## Drew2k

I have access to three tablets and have used them extensively (Motorola Drooid, Samsung Galaxy Tab, Asus Transformer) and after long periods of use I have never felt heat coming from them anywhere near laptop-heat levels. 

For my home laptop I purchased a Logitech lap cooling pad (with stereo speakers) simply because the laptop base gets too hot to be comfortable sitting directly on my lap. 

I suppose a case attached to a tablet would suffice to block some of the heat and alleviate some discomfort caused by laptop-levels of heat from the tablet...


----------



## Steve

spartanstew said:


> *The new 2012 iPad runs warmer than the iPad 2, but it's no hotter than many laptops under similar conditions.*
> 
> I don't know about you, but I would expect my tablet to be a lot cooler than my laptop.


Don't think 2048x1536 resolution changes the game at all in that regard? You need more backlighting, more GPU horsepower and more battery for both. Until someone comes out with a 10-hour tablet that thin with those specs that _doesn't _ occasionally run warm while gaming, it seems to me Apple has once again set the bar pretty high for competitors who may want to offer comparable displays.


----------



## spartanstew

Steve said:


> Don't think 2048x1536 resolution changes the game at all in that regard? You need more backlighting, more GPU horsepower and more battery for both. Until someone comes out with a 10-hour tablet that thin with those specs that _doesn't _ occasionally run warm while gaming, it seems to me Apple has once again set the bar pretty high for competitors who may want to offer comparable displays.


I understand why it gets hot, just saying I wouldn't want that in a tablet. If I'm going to have a hot tablet, I'd just as soon use a laptop.

There's advantages to using a tablet. One of those WAS that it didn't get hot. Another advantage is it's form factor. If the next iPad was the same size as a laptop and included an attached keyboard, I wouldn't want that either in a tablet.


----------



## Richierich

Chris Blount said:


> Case closed.
> 
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=confirmed-new-ipads-heat-a-non-issu-2012-03


Well, that is Good News for the Apple Folks.


----------



## Steve

> There's advantages to using a tablet. One of those WAS that it didn't get hot.


Yup. And even with that resolution GPU and battery, I can say from experience the new iPad really doesn't even get warm to the touch, _unless_ it's running those games for prolonged periods, apparently. With the new screen, we're in uncharted territory, so it will be interesting to see if they can keep those games from overheating the CPU going forward with a software fix that doesn't affect gaming performance.


----------



## dennisj00

And remember the so-called 'tests' were done with the iPad charging. Unless I've just plugged ours in and want to quickly check something, I never use it plugged in.

The hour I did with it the other day was very long for me!


----------



## Steve

dennisj00 said:


> And remember the so-called 'tests' were done with the iPad charging [...]


Speaking of which, the press has latched on to _another _supposed Apple "screw-up" today: :eek2:



> *DisplayMate: New iPad Lies About Charging Status*
> 
> The new Apple iPad keeps charging for more than two hours after it says it has a full battery, Dr. Raymond Soneira of DisplayMate Technologies said after testing the new tablet's display. *[more*]


But then they add:


> *The iPad isn't alone in this. "Other tablets and smartphones also lie about their charging status," Soneira said in another email.*


  :lol:


----------



## dennisj00

I've never really thought of those indicators being that exact. Until a few years ago, the gas gauge on your car would go down slowly on the top half and bam! then to empty!

My 6 hour laptop battery does about the same . . . 2 hours then empty! Of the three ipads and 2 iPhones we have (had- now 2 & 2), I've never worried about running low on battery.

I guess it's a slow technical writing month . . .


----------



## Steve

dennisj00 said:


> I guess it's a slow technical writing month . . .


I read somewhere that CR is planning to publish a "follow-up" on the heat thing. I guess they didn't attract enough new subscribers from their first "blockbuster" report this week.


----------



## Chris Blount

Geesh. Ita almost like every time Apple goes pee pee the world goes into a tailspin.


----------



## dennisj00

Here's a story. . . I was working yesterday in the back yard, had my iPhone playing the local NPR station and it quit playing. Went over where I had carefully placed it in the grass, turned it on and a yellow triangle - EXCESSIVE TEMPERATURE!

It was in the sun, black front, black case. . .

iPHONE OVERHEATS!! Details on Fox at 6.


----------



## Richierich

Chris Blount said:


> Geesh. Ita almost like every time Apple goes pee pee the world goes into a tailspin.


Hey, when you Are The King Of The Hill everyone will take shots at you out of Jealously, Envy or just Plain Mean Spiritedness.

If you enjoy your Apple Device be it an IPAD or whatever and it doesn't have any problems then Enjoy it regardless of what the Detractors say.

The IPAD is an Ingenious Device and has driven the market place upwards and it has made my Asus Transformer Prime Tablet what it is today so just Enjoy it!!!


----------



## Richierich

dennisj00 said:


> Here's a story. . . I was working yesterday in the back yard, had my iPhone playing the local NPR station and it quit playing. Went over where I had carefully placed it in the grass, turned it on and a yellow triangle - EXCESSIVE TEMPERATURE!
> 
> It was in the sun, black front, black case. . .
> 
> iPHONE OVERHEATS!! Details on Fox at 6.


Better Get Rid Of That IPhone!!! :lol:

I've got a Motorola Droid I will let it go Cheap!!! :lol:

And it doesn't Overheat in the Sun only if you put it in an Oven. :lol:


----------



## Cholly

Two funny iPad clips from youtube. The first is in German, but you can get the humor by just watching it, as a German woman gives her father an iPad, and how he uses it.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Well heres some more cheaper Android ICS tablets...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/27/cobys-budget-minded-ice-cream-sandwich-tablets-go-on-sale/

BUT....and its a big BUT imho....NO Google Play Access....


----------



## Steve

Sgt. Slaughter said:


> BUT....and its a big BUT imho....NO Google Play Access....


I wonder why that is? It's not like the Coby is a Fire or Nook. :scratchin

Could Google be throwing out an olive branch to the more expensive tablet manufacturers? Not fair to consumers, tho.


----------



## Sgt. Slaughter

Steve said:


> I wonder why that is? It's not like the Coby is a Fire or Nook. :scratchin
> 
> Could Google be throwing out an olive branch to the more expensive tablet manufacturers? Not fair to consumers, tho.


Yeah it makes sense why the Fire doesn't as it doesn't have all the full android framework on it...but from the video I saw HERE the OS looks like plain vanilla ICS on a tablet pretty much....

maybe GetJar offered them an offer they couldn't refuse?...i honestly have no idea at this point as to why after seeing the video. Initially I just assumed it was running a thinned version like the Fire is of Android...


----------



## RasputinAXP

Coby does not want to pay to be certified or does not meet the requirements.


----------



## bobukcat

RasputinAXP said:


> Coby does not want to pay to be certified or does not meet the requirements.


Yeah, what he said. You basically have to submit all your code and hardware specs to Google in order to be a "Google Platform" device with access to GApps, Market, oops Play, Maps, etc.


----------



## AaronBlind

Chris Blount said:


> Geesh. Ita almost like every time Apple goes pee pee the world goes into a tailspin.


Image is everything for Apple.


----------



## Steve

AaronBlind said:


> Image is everything for Apple.


Ya. There's no doubt about how important it is to them. It's the third leg of Apple's core marketing philosophy as expressed by Mike Markkula, Apple's "angel" investor and 1/3 partner in the early days:



> Apple should be constantly aware that companies and their products will be judged by the signals they convey. "People DO judge a book by its cover," Markkula wrote. "We may have the best product, the highest quality, the most useful software etc.; if we present them in a slipshod manner, they will be perceived as slipshod; if we present them in a creative, professional manner, we will impute the desired qualities."


----------



## Steve

I wonder if this will get as much press as their first report? :scratchin



> The high-resolution screen of the new iPad establishes a new benchmark in excellence, providing the best rendering of detail and color accuracy we've ever seen on a tablet display. As a result, the iPad tops our new tablet Ratings, posted today.
> 
> Performance on the new iPad ($500 to $830) was superb in virtually every other way as well. [...]
> 
> Responding to consumer comments on the new device, and to coverage from other reviewers, we also carried out further tests that confirmed the new iPad is warmer in its hottest spots than the iPad 2. But we didn't find those temperatures to be cause for concern. In addition, further tests of observations we made that the new iPad was not recharging when playing a demanding, intense video game, showed that the problem was limited to times when the device was playing a demanding game with the screen fully bright. [...]
> 
> As a result of the standout performance of the new iPad's screen, we have recalibrated our standard of excellence for tablet screens. [*more*]


----------



## Chris Blount

Steve said:


> I wonder if this will get as much press as their first report? :scratchin


 Probably not which is why I stopped reading Consumer Reports. They just don't seem as reliable as they use to be.


----------



## Steve

Not surprising how *Microsoft's *news outlet decided to characterize the _news_:

*Apple's iPad tops Consumer Reports' list despite heat issue*

 :lol:


----------



## Rich

Chris Blount said:


> Probably not which is why I stopped reading Consumer Reports. They just don't seem as reliable as they use to be.


My company went on strike in the late spring of 1971 and I decided to get a job doing something I always wanted to do: Drive a taxi. I went to Keansburg on Raritan Bay in NJ and made more money doing that than I did at my regular job.

The car I was given to drive was a new Chevy, don't remember the model, but it was as big as an Impala and was the first car I drove that had disc brakes. Coincidentally, CR came out with an issue that addressed their tests of disc brakes. Really bad report on the brakes, which I had found worked much better than regular (at the time) brakes. Not effected by water, stopped in a straight line and stopped a lot quicker than the regular brakes. CR disagreed with what my experiences were. Turned out they were basing the report on airplanes with disc brakes. Kinda made me look askance at CR reports ever since.

Rich


----------



## Steve

For registered Prime owners, in case you missed:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/05/Asus-to-offer-free-Transformer-Prime-GPS-Dongle/


----------



## FHSPSU67

Thanks Steve, I'll get one even though I'll probably not use it a whole lot.


----------



## Cholly

I'm surprised at all the dissing of Consumer Reports. One needs to remember that their reviews are often based on a single sample and if they find something quite wrong about a product, they check additional samples when possible. We all have probably had experiences where we disagreed with CR's ratings. For example, I strongly disagree with their ratings of Whirlpool refrigerators, having had major problems with two of them purchased within the last 7 years.
To their credit, they pointed out the antenna problems with the iPhone family -- a problem Steve Jobs vehemently denied, but apple went about trying to fix.
The thing I do like about CR is their refusal to allow their reviews to be used in advertising -- something you don't see in publications like "Consumers Digest", or even CNet.


----------



## Steve

Speculation by *The Verge* is Lenovo may be purchasing excess iPad2 screen inventory to build this 8.9mm thick, ICS 4.0 tablet with a 4:3 aspect ratio screen.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/9/2935569/lenovo-ideatab-s2109-android-4-specs

I like the fact it has quad SRS speakers. Will be interesting to see how they price it. My guess is $299 MSRP. Maybe $249.


----------



## Cholly

Woot! has HP 32G Touchpads for $249.99 plus $4 shipping today only


----------



## Steve

This refresh of the original Transformer received 4 out of 5 stars from PC Magazine. $399 for a 32gb quad-core.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403304,00.asp


----------



## Richierich

Steve said:


> For registered Prime owners, in case you missed:
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/05/Asus-to-offer-free-Transformer-Prime-GPS-Dongle/


Thanks Steve for the Link.

Just Registered and they said I would be notified when my GPS Kit was going to ship.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> This refresh of the original Transformer received 4 out of 5 stars from PC Magazine. $399 for a 32gb quad-core.
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403304,00.asp


Wired was less complimentary than PC Mag. I can say that no Gorilla Glass would be a deal breaker for me.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012...-tablet-lowers-the-price-by-lowering-the-bar/


----------



## RasputinAXP

No Gorilla Glass? meh. My Galaxy Nexus doesn't have it either.


----------



## chevyguy559

Richierich said:


> Thanks Steve for the Link.
> 
> Just Registered and they said I would be notified when my GPS Kit was going to ship.


Is there a link I'm missing to order the kit? I recently registered my Prime (like a week ago) but didn't see anything as far as a link to get the GPS kit....where should I look??  Thanks!


----------



## FHSPSU67

Go to this link and login.
http://vip.asus.com/user/uhome.aspx?SLanguage=en-us
Look down the left column until you see:
"TF201 GPS Extension Kit Apply&Inquire"


----------



## Richierich

FHSPSU67 said:


> Go to this link and login.
> http://vip.asus.com/user/uhome.aspx?SLanguage=en-us
> Look down the left column until you see:
> "TF201 GPS Extension Kit Apply&Inquire"


You will then see this Message:

"Thank you for purchasing the ASUS Eee Transformer Prime TF201, and helping to make it the most popular Android based tablet since its launch in December 2011. We greatly appreciate feedback from our valued customers about our products, and take it very seriously. The response to the TF201 generally has been overwhelmingly positive, but we understand that, in certain regions, the GPS functionality has not met some user's expectations.

Free Dongle! At ASUS, we are committed to delivering innovative, high-quality products and services, and our customers' experience is important to us. Although the TF201 is not a professional GPS device, as part of our unwavering commitment to our customers we are offering all customers who purchased a TF201 system a free external GPS extension kit, called a dongle, which may help improve signal reception and optimize the user experience. We are pleased to announce this offer as part of our commitment to customer service, but it does not replace, alter or amend any existing warranties you may have.We also encourage you to contact ASUS customer support in your local region directly if you are experiencing GPS related problems.

ASUS prides itself on delivering an unrivalled user experience, and we offer our sincere apologies for any inconvenience that our customers may have encountered.

The offer will expire on 31th of July, 2012 (PST)."


----------



## chevyguy559

Many thanks! Got it ordered!


----------



## Cholly

My new toy came yesterday -- a Samsung Galaxy 2 7.0 tablet. For $50 more than a Kindle Fire, you get true Android Ice Cream Sandwich, front and rear cameras and a MicroSD slot that can expand memory by 32 GB. You also get an IR blaster that allows the tablet to act as a minimalist home theater remote, using included Peel software. Samsung offers a free year of 50 GB DropBox cloud software as well.
I haven't had too much opportunity to compare its performance to that of my 10.1 inch ViewSonic gTablet,, which has the OS modded from Froyo to a limited version of Honeycomb (GtabComb 3.1 beta) other than to note the obvious shortcomings of a smaller screen and the advantage of true Ice Cream Sandwich support. 
It goes without saying that I like the lighter weight and compact size of the Galaxy 2 7.0. It does have a few warts when compared to some of the other 7 inch tablets -- less capable cameras, lower resolution and no HDMI output. As with other Android cameras, it lacks the capability to access Amazon videos.


----------



## Steve

Based on these #'s, Google needs to get that rumored $199 quad-core Nexus 7" tablet out the door sooner, rather than later. As you can see from the chart, it looks like the Kindle Fire continued to pick up steam, even four months after its introduction. [*more*]

Also, the Nook tablets are conspicuous by their absence on that chart, IMHO.


----------



## klang

Wow, 54.4% in just three short months. I wonder how many Kindle Fire owners even know they have an Android tablet?


----------



## Steve

klang said:


> I wonder how many Kindle Fire owners even know they have an Android tablet?


I doubt many users care. I suspect to most, it's considered an "appliance", not unlike the iPad (or iPod).

After seeing the success of the Fire, I'll bet Apple regrets not coming out with an iPad "mini". As a result, I'm pretty sure the rumors of Apple introducing a 7.85" screen iOS device this fall may be true. Even more reason for Google to get that 7" Nexus out there soon.


----------



## Drew2k

I saw the Galaxy Note in use today, and it's absolutely gorgeous. It was fast, the screen was clear and sharp, and the form factor was incredibly convenient. It's perfect for e-Books, and well suited for web browsing and playing videos, and actually think the 7" "mini" tablets could ultimately become more popular than larger, more expensive full-size tablets.


----------



## Steve

Steve said:


> Based on these #'s, Google needs to get that rumored $199 quad-core Nexus 7" tablet out the door sooner, rather than later. As you can see from the chart, it looks like the Kindle Fire continued to pick up steam, even four months after its introduction. [*more*]
> 
> *Also, the Nook tablets are conspicuous by their absence on that chart, IMHO.*


I learned from reading this that Comscore excluded the Nook tablets from the survey, classifying them as eReaders, instead.


----------



## Cholly

Drew2k said:


> I saw the Galaxy Note in use today, and it's absolutely gorgeous. It was fast, the screen was clear and sharp, and the form factor was incredibly convenient. It's perfect for e-Books, and well suited for web browsing and playing videos, and actually think the 7" "mini" tablets could ultimately become more popular than larger, more expensive full-size tablets.


Out of curiosity, do you really mean Galaxy Note? The Galaxy Note is a Smartphone, not a tablet. The 7 inch Samsung tablets are the Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 (the newest, least expensive), Galaxy Tab 7.0 and Galaxy Tab 7.0 Plus.


----------



## Drew2k

Cholly said:


> Out of curiosity, do you really mean Galaxy Note? The Galaxy Note is a Smartphone, not a tablet. The 7 inch Samsung tablets are the Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 (the newest, least expensive), Galaxy Tab 7.0 and Galaxy Tab 7.0 Plus.


It was an employee at Costco showing it to me at the returns desk. I was returning a Samsung Galaxy Tab and that's when she showed me her new toy. I do thin it was the Note, but you're right - it's not a tablet then. It was still pretty impressive though.


----------



## Steve

In their latest review updates, the Kindle Fire, Transformer Prime, Transformer TF300, Nook Tablet and Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7.0) all got 4 stars. The Fire was awarded an "Editor's Choice".

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/266915/the-10-best-android-tablets


----------



## Steve

15% to 30% better, depending on whether you're browsing, watching videos or gaming.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57427749-92/the-$399-ipad-2-boasts-better-battery-life-says-report/


----------



## lparsons21

Steve said:


> I learned from reading this that Comscore excluded the Nook tablets from the survey, classifying them as eReaders, instead.


Which is a bogus reason, imo.

And I've been reading that Nook has about 30% of the Android tablet market in a few other places. To exclude it from that one totally skews the result.


----------



## Steve

lparsons21 said:


> Which is a bogus reason, imo.
> 
> And I've been reading that Nook has about 30% of the Android tablet market in a few other places. To exclude it from that one totally skews the result.


Ya. I read yesterday that it was the 5th best-selling tablet in Q1-12, behind Apple, Samsung, Amazon and Lenovo, in that order.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsav...ll-sharply-trouble-for-android/?feed=rss_home


----------



## Cholly

Not being an old timer in the tablet world, I was introduced to the Android app "Pulse" last week. I had it on one of my tablets, but didn't understand what it was since I hadn't configured it. Now I have it set up on both my tablets, with tabs for home, news, sports and technology. Really sweet! :icon_bb:


----------



## Richierich

Cholly said:


> Not being an old timer in the tablet world, I was introduced to the Android app "Pulse" last week. I had it on one of my tablets, but didn't understand what it was since I hadn't configured it. Now I have it set up on both my tablets, with tabs for home, news, sports and technology. Really sweet! :icon_bb:


Well, don't keep us in Suspense, tell us what it does for you!!!


----------



## Cholly

Richierich said:


> Well, don't keep us in Suspense, tell us what it does for you!!!


There are catalogs for each of the categories I listed. Each catalog has a list of web sites for that category (for example, for technology, you'd find engadget, gizmodo, gigaom, verge and more. You can choose a number of web sites you'd like to follow, adding them to your own list under a given tab. When you click on a tab,you are presented with rows of pictures (one row for each site you've selected for that category) each relating to an article on that site. Click on a picture and the article is displayed. If there are more pictures than will fit on the screen, you can scroll sideways to reveal them. Kind of a poor explanation but hopefully you get the picture.
You have to try Pulse in order to really understand it. I like it a lot.


----------



## Drew2k

Pulse description and screen images here for tablet and phone: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alphonso.pulse


----------



## heathramos

I wonder how Pulse on android compares to Zite on the iPAD.

I have a Nook so I will check it out when I get a chance.


----------



## Steve

heathramos said:


> I wonder how Pulse on android compares to Zite on the iPAD.
> 
> I have a Nook so I will check it out when I get a chance.


There's a version of Zite for Android as well. Not sure if it's tablet optimized like the iPad version, however.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zite&feature=nav_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDNd


----------



## bobnielsen

Steve said:


> There's a version of Zite for Android as well. Not sure if it's tablet optimized like the iPad version, however.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zite&feature=nav_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDNd


The description says it is optimized for phones, not tablets.


----------



## Steve

bobnielsen said:


> The description says it is optimized for phones, not tablets.


Ya. I only saw phone screens on the Pulse page, though, so perhaps it scales as well? Or will it not install at all on a tablet?

Google Currents is another pretty nice news aggregation app, IMHO. It works very well on the iPad, so I assume it's as good, if not better, on Android.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.currents


----------



## Drew2k

Steve said:


> Ya. I only saw phone screens on the Pulse page, though, so perhaps it scales as well? Or will it not install at all on a tablet?
> 
> Google Currents is another pretty nice news aggregation app, IMHO. It works very well on the iPad, so I assume it's as good, if not better, on Android.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.currents


I saw tablet views in the past, but now they are gone.

Pulse on the tablet is a treat, with vertical orientation working the same as a phone, but horizontal orientation leaving the horizontal story bands with a new pane appearing on the right to read selected stories.

Supports swiping left/right to switch between pages in the bands, and left/right swipes to switch stories in the reading pane. Pull down to refresh.

Also includes some nice widgets.

Pulse also includes a feature called "Pulse.Me" to mark stories for offline reading and/or viewing on any other web browser. You don't have to create a Pulse account unless you wish to see the marked stories on another web browser.


----------



## chevyguy559

I installed Pulse last night and its my new favorite app!


----------



## Draconis

Looks like a new sweepstakes for a ASUS Transformer Pad TF300. I'm still pretty happy with the TF201 I won at CES but I thought I'd let you folks know so you can take a crack at one.

http://androidcommunity.com/android...one-anniversary-tegra-pack-giveaway-20120511/


----------



## Steve

As reported by *betanews*:


> At Computex 2012, Acer quietly showed off an update to its 7 inch Android-powered Iconia A100 Tab which is expected to come out in the third quarter of the year.
> 
> The new tablet is known as the A110, features a quad-core Nvidia Tegra 3 processor with 1 GB of RAM, and will run Android 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich.
> 
> The noteworthy thing about this device is that *it will reportedly be priced under $200*, which hints that it *could* be the first beneficiary of the Nvidia Kai reference platform for tablets. [...]
> 
> "Does KAI make sacrifices? Sure it does. It has to. But it makes these sacrifices in the right places, with many options for our partners to deliver the right solution to the market for consumers," last week, Tegra marketing director Matt Wuebbling wrote in the Nvidia blog. [*more*]


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## Steve

If you're in the market for a 7" Android tablet, sure looks like the Nexus 7 is the one to get. Quad core CPU and 8GB of memory for $199, with a $25 credit for the Play store. $249 for a 16GB model. I just watched the demo, and I can't imagine anyone offering a better deal. Just my .02.

You can order it from the Play store today, and it will ship in mid-July.

https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_8gb

*EDITED TO ADD: *I don't see any mention of memory expansion on the Play store page, so the 16GB model may be the one to get.


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## Cholly

Looks tempting, but I'm delighted with my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0. It has ICS, micro SD slot, 3.0 megapixel rear camera, IR blaster and a nifty Peel Smart Remote App, amongst other goodies. Sells for $249.99


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## Steve

Cholly said:


> Looks tempting, but I'm delighted with my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0. It has ICS, micro SD slot, 3.0 megapixel rear camera, IR blaster and a nifty Peel Smart Remote App, amongst other goodies. Sells for $249.99


I forgot about that one. You're right. Same memory + the rear camera. Dual core, but prolly not a huge performance difference in day to day use. Looks like you can get discounts on it as well.


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## Guest

There are many tablets launching every day in the market and i always prefer the samsung tablets. Samsung galaxy tab is an amazing tablet which has many great applications like ICS version and the big screen size with the micro SD slot. It is an ultimate device which is user friendly.


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## Draconis

Some new reviews are in for the Android tablets.

Top Android 4.0 tablets

Sony Tablet S
Cnet rating: 3.5 stars out of 5

Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.7
Cnet rating: 3.5 stars out of 5

Asus Transformer Pad Infinity TF700
Cnet rating: 4 stars out of 5

Google Nexus 7
Cnet rating: 4 stars out of 5


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## ChipperJones

I love my new Nexus 7, its pretty awesome. Picked up a Nexus 7 stand case for it yesterday and called out of work for the next three days!


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## Steve

ChipperJones said:


> I love my new Nexus 7, its pretty awesome. Picked up a Nexus 7 stand case for it yesterday and called out of work for the next three days!


I saw the 16gb Nexus 7 for $249 + free shipping today. With the $25 Play credit, that comes out to only a few dollars more than the 8GB with shipping from Google.

http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/nexus-7-android-tablet/40766.aspx


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## chevyguy559

For those that bought a Transformer Prime at Best Buy (myself included), apparantly Best Buy is exchanging the Transformer Prime for the Infinity if you go in and ask for an exchange due to Wifi/GPS/Bluetooth issues. Since they don't carry the Transformer Prime anymore, they'll give you a giftcard for the amount or order you a Infinity....might try it tomorrow 

Link To Thread

Link To Story


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## texasmoose

Looking to purchase a 7-inch tablet, have it narrowed down to the Nexus 7 & Samsung Galaxy Tab 2. Does the Nexus offer the IR Blaster/Smart remote app too?


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## RasputinAXP

The app, sure; the IR adapter? No.


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## bobnielsen

texasmoose said:


> Looking to purchase a 7-inch tablet, have it narrowed down to the Nexus 7 & Samsung Galaxy Tab 2. Does the Nexus offer the IR Blaster/Smart remote app too?


Not IR, but if your Directv receivers are connected to a wireless router you can use apps like Directv Remote Pro.


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## dennisj00

Amazon just launched a new line of Kindles much closer to iPad price points but includes a $49 per YEAR 4G LTE - 250 MB per month - plan. While 250 isn't much, $49 per YEAR isn't either!

The biggest is 8.9 inch screen.


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## Drew2k

dennisj00 said:


> Amazon just launched a new line of Kindles much closer to iPad price points but includes a $49 per YEAR 4G LTE - 250 MB per month - plan. While 250 isn't much, $49 per YEAR isn't either!
> 
> The biggest is 8.9 inch screen.


I'm very disappointed in Amazon for forcing ads on the lock-screens for ALL of the new Kindle Fires, no exceptions. With the Kindles at least Amazon offered the subsidized version with ads and an ad-free version, but as of now that's not the case with the new Fires.


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## Mike Bertelson

Drew2k said:


> I'm very disappointed in Amazon for forcing ads on the lock-screens for ALL of the new Kindle Fires, no exceptions. With the Kindles at least Amazon offered the subsidized version with ads and an ad-free version, but as of now that's not the case with the new Fires.


Yeah, I noticed that. I'm not gonna upgrade if I have to have ads.

Mike


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## yosoyellobo

Mike Bertelson said:


> Yeah, I noticed that. I'm not gonna upgrade if I have to have ads.
> 
> Mike


Are the ads mandatory or can you skip them by hitting a button?


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## RasputinAXP

mandatory, they'll always be on your lockscreen.


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## BubblePuppy

Engadget is reporting that the ads might be optional. 
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/07/amazon-confirms-yes-you-can-opt-out-of-ads-on-new-kindle-fire/


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## Drew2k

BubblePuppy said:


> Engadget is reporting that the ads might be optional.
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/07/amazon-confirms-yes-you-can-opt-out-of-ads-on-new-kindle-fire/


CNET heard directly from Amazon that ads can not be removed.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-3126_7-57508526/amazon-confirms-all-new-kindle-fires-stuck-with-ads/

(Engadget got its info from email forwarded from a customer who heard from Amazon customer support, so it's likely the customer support did not know!)

This seems to be final... until Amazon backs down after losing customers to Google's Nexus tablet, or someone comes up with a way to block the ads, that is...


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## BubblePuppy

One thing I've learned in cases such as this is never use the word "never", hence my use of "might be". Only time will tell what Amazon will decide. Amazon might cater to the will of the buying public. Then again Amazon might not.


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## djlong

It's Android 4.0-based. That means someone will come out with a lock-screen replacement that will eliminate that 0.4-seconds that I would see an ad if I go for one of the new Fire HDs.

It's not like they interrupt what you're doing to throw ads at you - like just about every site on the internet.


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## davring

If its only in the lock screen, who cares, I don't sit and stare at the lock screen.


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## Rich

I wanna see that 20" Sony tablet. That, I find interesting.

Rich


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## Mike Bertelson

Rich said:


> I wanna see that 20" Sony tablet. That, I find interesting.
> 
> Rich


I was reading about that. It's bigger than my laptop. :lol:

http://www.androidcentral.com/normal-sized-sony-xperia-tablet-s-and-giagantic-vaio-tap

Mike


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## Rich

Mike Bertelson said:


> I was reading about that. It's bigger than my laptop. :lol:
> 
> http://www.androidcentral.com/normal-sized-sony-xperia-tablet-s-and-giagantic-vaio-tap
> 
> Mike


Wonder how much it costs?

Rich


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## BubblePuppy

Never say never.

Amazon caves in, will remove ads from Kindle Fire for $15 fee
Newly announced option will strip ads from home and lock screens.

by Jon Brodkin - Sept 8 2012, 8:35pm CDT
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012...rstechnica/index+(Ars+Technica+-+All+content)


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## Carl Spock

I just received a Kindle Paperwhite. I ordered it a week or two ago and they said it wouldn't be here until Christmas. Instead, I have it for Thanksgiving.

I wanted just a reader, not a full-fledged tablet. There is still an iPad in my future. The Kindle can be a rough-n-tumble piece on which I can read books and not worry if it gets scratched. I also didn't want to read off of a computer-type screen. I find that tiring.

I paid an extra $20 for no ads. That was a pretty cheesy move on Amazon's part, as was needing to pay an extra $10 for an AC adapter. $150 total. Not bad for a piece with a lighted screen.

I'm surprised how expensive books are. Many times the paperback costs more than the digital copy. I was going to buy Walter Issacson's biography of Albert Einstein, a book I've wanted to read since it came out, and found out the paperback version was cheaper than the Kindle one. So I still haven't bought the book. Maybe I'll just get it from the library.

I did get one of Laurie King's Mary Russell mysteries and David Frum's new e-book on the election. I think what I'll use it for the most, though, is to read the New York Times every morning. This will finally put a death nail in my subscription to the La Crosse Tribune. It's not much of a newspaper.

Of course, I like the Kindle because it's just like a Star Trek PADD.


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## yosoyellobo

Try looking for it in your local library. They may have a ebook of it.


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## olguy

I have a ColorNook that's a couple of years old. I actually use my Motorola Zoom for reading more than the Nook. I've read all of Tony Hillerman's books about the Navajo cops in the last year and a half. Now I'm on the 6th book in the Longmire series. I occasionally get a digital book from the library as well. Ereaders just make it so easy to have several books at haqnd while traveling.


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## bobukcat

Carl Spock said:


> I just received a Kindle Paperwhite. I ordered it a week or two ago and they said it wouldn't be here until Christmas. Instead, I have it for Thanksgiving.
> 
> I wanted just a reader, not a full-fledged tablet. There is still an iPad in my future. The Kindle can be a rough-n-tumble piece on which I can read books and not worry if it gets scratched. I also didn't want to read off of a computer-type screen. I find that tiring.
> 
> I paid an extra $20 for no ads. That was a pretty cheesy move on Amazon's part, as was needing to pay an extra $10 for an AC adapter. $150 total. Not bad for a piece with a lighted screen.
> 
> I'm surprised how expensive books are. Many times the paperback costs more than the digital copy. I was going to buy Walter Issacson's biography of Albert Einstein, a book I've wanted to read since it came out, and found out the paperback version was cheaper than the Kindle one. So I still haven't bought the book. Maybe I'll just get it from the library.
> 
> I did get one of Laurie King's Mary Russell mysteries and David Frum's new e-book on the election. I think what I'll use it for the most, though, is to read the New York Times every morning. This will finally put a death nail in my subscription to the La Crosse Tribune. It's not much of a newspaper.
> 
> Of course, I like the Kindle because it's just like a Star Trek PADD.


The issue with ebooks being more expensive than the printed version started when Apple and the publishers wrecked the previously established wholesale model and instituted their "agency" model. They have / are being sued by the DOJ for it but the settlement is ridiculous and does nothing to remedy the damage that's done / being done to consumers. I've had a Kindle since the 2nd generation first came out and it is amazing how much more I pay for books now than I did 3.5 years ago, it is at least 50% more on average.


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## spartanstew

Just bought my wife a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7") yesterday for $170 plus a free SD card.

She's been using her Nook for a couple of years now, but reads a lot on my Transformer instead cause she likes the lit screen better. Now she can read and do everything else - our days of strictly readers are now over.

I'm also going to be purchasing each of my boys one of THESE for xmas so they'll stop borrowing my tablet.


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## bobnielsen

I have had a Nook Color for nearly two years (rooted and currently running Android Jellybean). I mainly bought it for reading and figured the tablet features were a nice extra, but I found the battery life too limiting for reading several hours a day and bought the cheapest Kindle (I considered the paperwhite model but the quoted wait at the time was nearly two months). If I hold the power button for several seconds it turns off _without_ displaying the ads.


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## lparsons21

I just bought a Nook Simple Touch w/Glowlight reader as I just wanted something small to read books in bed. Nice little box, smaller and lighter by far than my original Nook.

As for book prices, well you can spend a lot on books if you want to, but you don't have to. I've been getting free books legally for my Nooks and iPad ever since I've had them. Many classics, plus new authors or established ones writing something in a new genre, and of course there is the Bain Free Library.

When I buy, I doubt that I've paid more than $3 for any book.


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## Cholly

Carl Spock said:


> I'm surprised how expensive books are. Many times the paperback costs more than the digital copy. I was going to buy Walter Issacson's biography of Albert Einstein, a book I've wanted to read since it came out, and found out the paperback version was cheaper than the Kindle one. So I still haven't bought the book. Maybe I'll just get it from the library.


Check with your library and see if they rent or loan out ebooks. My local library has an extensive list of them, generally available as free 14 day loans. After 14 days, you have to reapply for the privilege of reading the book.


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## dpeters11

Ad I don't know of they still require it,but HarperCollins announced last year that libraries would need to repurchase ebooks after they had been checked out 26 times.


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## Carl Spock

Cholly said:


> Check with your library and see if they rent or loan out ebooks. My local library has an extensive list of them, generally available as free 14 day loans. After 14 days, you have to reapply for the privilege of reading the book.


My library has a ton of ebooks on the Kindle format. Thanks for the tip from both yosoyellobo and you. They didn't have the Issacson biography of Einstein I was looking for as an ebook but a hardback copy is available. A hardback book...how quaint. 

I found it weird that they can only have a three copies of most ebooks checked out at a time. That must have something to do with the publishers. Is this normal?

I was right about reading the New York Times on the tablet in the morning. It was great today. I can see this becoming a habit. The Kindle subscription also gives me an online subscription so I don't have to monkey with various browsers on multiple computers to read the NYT, getting 10 free stories each.


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## dpeters11

It doesn't have to be three, but they only have so many copies.

You won't find the Issacson book in ebook format at any library. His publisher is Simon and Schuster and they along with Penguin don't allow libraries access.

RandomHouse and HarperCollins (though with limits if HC still does that) do, but there's a potential merger with Penguin. Not sure which way it'd go with libraries. But then News Corp is in early talks to buy Simon and Schuster, to merge it with HarperCollins.


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## dennisj00

Carl, I've been reading our local 'Charlotte Observer' in PDF form on the iPad for 2 years or so. Their digital subscription is $1 per month with the paper sub, which I cut to weekends.

Gives us enough paper to line the bird cage - we don't have a bird.


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